# Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Old thread died so young. 

I give it ****.

And since four-ways were the topic at the end of last thread, BL 07 is my favorite.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

****1/4 to the old thread (RIP  ).

Gave a mini rewatch to Night Of Champions 2010 via highlights on YT, and it looks as good as ever. Dat Miz/Bryan. Chicago always gets the goods it seems.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao :lmao Cal actually listen to me, I remembered the last last thread closed around that same time so yea

Digging through netflix to find something good


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Damn, that old thread didn't seem to last long. *****1/2* from me.

Taker/Benoit/Rock/Kane from Unforgiven 2000 is an underrated 4-way. I agree that the Backlash 07 one takes the cake though. Love that ending.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao :lmao Cal actually listen to me, I remembered the last last thread closed around that same time so yea












I enjoyed Taker/Rock/Kane/Benoit Unforgiven when I watched it for the first time about a year ago (I think).


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao :lmao Cal actually listen to me, I remembered the last last thread closed around that same time so yea
> 
> Digging through netflix to find something good


Find anything good? I haven't found anything of note recently (that I haven't watched)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone recommend some good umaga matches for me? If that trips match that I liked is on the bad side of his matches, id really like to see some that you guys really enjoyed. He does kind of remind me of a modern somoan version of bam bam bigelow, who is number 2 only to taker in my favorite big men list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well someone has to remind me of these things. I'm like, the worst mod ever. Seriously.

Went on a "random Undertaker DVD splurge" yesterday. Got all the Undertaker DVD's I don't own... which are pretty much the bad ones . He Buries Them Alive (old VHS released on DVD), 2 version of Best of Undertaker Vs Batista (SD cage is on one of them so that's something ), The Phenom (old VHS released on DVD), and the Best of WWE Vol 4: The Undertaker (just got like, 4 of his WM matches on it).

Then I got Smackdown's Most Memorable Matches to go with the Raw's Most Memorable Matches DVD that I already bought not too long ago. Some cool TV gems on it (Eddie Vs Rey match... though I honestly can't recall which one it is), Rock & Edge Vs Benoit & Eddie and some other stuff.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Can anyone recommend some good umaga matches for me? If that trips match that I liked is on the bad side of his matches, id really like to see some that you guys really enjoyed. He does kind of remind me of a modern somoan version of bam bam bigelow, who is number 2 only to taker in my favorite big men list.


Vs Cena at the Royal Rumble 2007
Vs Carlito vs Mr. Kennedy at Summerslam 2007
Vs Triple H in a street fight at Cyber Sunday 2007
vs Jeff Hardy on RAW in a steel cage match

And holy crap, I didn't even know Umaga and Taker worked a house show match together. MUST WATCH. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No, not the old thread. 

That was only 5 or so months old. The one before lasted a year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lord Flvcko said:


> Vs Cena at the Royal Rumble 2007
> Vs Carlito vs Mr. Kennedy at Summerslam 2007
> Vs Triple H in a street fight at Cyber Sunday 2007
> vs Jeff Hardy on RAW in a steel cage match
> ...


Been meaning to watch that myself for ages.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

cjack828 said:


> Can anyone recommend some good umaga matches for me? If that trips match that I liked is on the bad side of his matches, id really like to see some that you guys really enjoyed. He does kind of remind me of a modern somoan version of bam bam bigelow, who is number 2 only to taker in my favorite big men list.


Umaga vs. John Cena, LMS, Rumble 07 - *****3/4* One of my favourite matches and just flat out GOAT. 

Watched the SD triple threat just now and holy shit was that thing awesome. I'm almost tempted to throw 4* at it but I'll wait until I watch it again before I do that. For now it sits at a very high ****3/4* though. Some beautiful stuff in there and the exchanges between RVD and RKO were brilliant. If that gets added as a Summerslam match I'll be happy. So much TV goodness this year it's unreal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Even though I quite liked Youmanga I honestly can't think of a match of his I'd rate beyond ***1/4.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... I had an "epiphany" yesterday regarding heels, and why so few are hated nowadays. Granted, I kinda already knew this, but it was just cemented as a fact yesterday, and here's my story (hopefully an entertaining read for all of you)...

... so I was at a friend's house and there were several people there. One of them brought Mario Kart Wii and we ended up playing a cup, 4 players, with the 3 losers passing on the controllers, and then we go to another cup. I started out, and won, every single time. Not just that, but I would constantly make comments about the others' skills, declaring myself "the champ" after a couple of rounds, acting like an all around douchebag, and almost always winning (I lost a race here and there but was always in first at the end of the cups). 

Anyway, before I knew it, everyone was cheering anytime I fell off, anytime I got hit by a shell, shrunken down by lightning, and sometimes people playing, if they had a star and could, would go out of the way to ram into me... and so on, so fourth. Anytime someone else won a race, everyone would cheer, even once someone got their name chanted in the room... and yeah...

I was a slimeball, piece of shit, but most importantly, the dominant player/"heel" of Mario Kart Wii last night. In relationship to the room, I was getting more heat than any heel in the WWE, and maybe even all time. Although I didn't get death threats or stuff thrown at me... so probably not the latter. But still it opened my eyes to just how important it is for a heel to be dominant. People don't hate cowards/losers, they pity them. People are only annoyed by cheaters to a degree, but it's those that are dominant and truly back up their bark, combined with being a complete douchebag that really get people to hate them at something. 

And then of course the pay off... one of them did finally win a cup over me and it was a house of NY Giants fans after they win the Superbowl. I took my walk of shame, and didn't get to play again. 

So yeah, if WWE would make their heels dominant and dickish, not cowardly and dickish (unless they want them in the mid-card), you'd see more heels getting Vickie-level heat on a consistent basis... well... except the rare few who just can't maintain heat (*cough*DELRIO*cough*).

And I don't mean dominant as in being able to physically push around anyone you want (although that works), but just in general being able to win, sometimes fair, sometimes cheating if they really want to protect a face. Or even sometimes just getting lucky.

It's why guys like JBL and HHH were such hated heels. Though I can't remember HHH 100%, I remember JBL never lost on TV during his WWE Title reign except maybe once or twice.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> So... I had an "epiphany" yesterday regarding heels, and why so few are hated nowadays. Granted, I kinda already knew this, but it was just cemented as a fact yesterday, and here's my story (hopefully an entertaining read for all of you)...
> 
> ... so I was at a friend's house and there were several people there. One of them brought Mario Kart Wii and we ended up playing a cup, 4 players, with the 3 losers passing on the controllers, and then we go to another cup. I started out, and won, every single time. Not just that, but I would constantly make comments about the others' skills, declaring myself "the champ" after a couple of rounds, acting like an all around douchebag, and almost always winning (I lost a race here and there but was always in first at the end of the cups).
> 
> ...



Man you are so right about all of that, I was thinking to myself the other day, is John Cena the only wrestler with REAL heat in the wwe? All the other heels I actually kind of enjoy, because they are good at being bad. But I've grown to just loathe the Cena character because of how bland and super heroish the wwe presents him. That's why I think a Cena heel turn would be a bad idea, he'd lose all his heat with the smart fans because then wwe would be doing what they want. By keeping Cena as a white meat baby face super hero, wwe is ensuring that at least one wrestler will have true heat. Along with cena's jorts, which I swear are an intentional psychological move by wwe to keep older fans from getting behind Cena, because who would root for a guy in jorts?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Umaga vs. John Cena, LMS, Rumble 07 - *****3/4* One of my favourite matches and just flat out GOAT.
> 
> Watched the SD triple threat just now and holy shit was that thing awesome. I'm almost tempted to throw 4* at it but I'll wait until I watch it again before I do that. For now it sits at a very high ****3/4* though. Some beautiful stuff in there and the exchanges between RVD and RKO were brilliant. If that gets added as a Summerslam match I'll be happy. So much TV goodness this year it's unreal.


I'm gonna have to find that match thanks man.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

@redskins25

You have to watch the final four match. So much fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm done watching the weirdest Handicap match of all time - Mankind, Rock & Shamrock vs Brothers of Destruction. If ya haven't seen it, it has its moments but it's more for the lulz than anything.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Umaga's work with Jeff Hardy was YES.

He got to work a really important match at Wrestlemania XXIII so at least he had that under his belt before he passed away too soon. I wasn't the biggest fan of the guy like *BRYE* is, I always felt like he was a really good big man that could have done wonders with a guy like The Undertaker or even Mark Henry. I really enjoyed his stuff with Triple H & Punk though, but then again I enjoy most guys when they work with Haitch & Punk.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Evan, what's it gonna be with the MIZARK list?

You need help with pics, I can find anything as long as they're 2006-present.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have no idea, I've been searching up pictures for a while and I can find absolutely NOTHING for Smackdown in 2006. Whenever I search a specific date on WWE.COM, it just shows me recent pictures and I get really frustrated. The list is kind of stuck in limbo at the moment, but I'm hoping to get at least a little but of it posted today (It's a top 43 list for some reason) because it'll motivate me to keep going.

& Mark deserves the red carpet treatment anyways :henry1.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★1/2 for the Taker vs Umaga house show match in Chile. A real good slug-fest with The Undertaker doing everything in his power to put Umaga away and Umaga overpowering out of it. The finish to the match is pretty cool with The Undertaker countering Umaga's Samoan Spike and turning it into a Hell's Gate. I recommend giving it a watch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I have no idea, I've been searching up pictures for a while and I can find absolutely NOTHING for Smackdown in 2006. Whenever I search a specific date on WWE.COM, it just shows me recent pictures and I get really frustrated. The list is kind of stuck in limbo at the moment, but I'm hoping to get at least a little but of it posted today (It's a top 43 list for some reason) because it'll motivate me to keep going.
> 
> & Mark deserves the red carpet treatment anyways :henry1.


WWE.com has everything up from 2006. Here's a link for an example: (for one of the Taker matches I think)

http://www.wwe.com/shows/smackdown/archive/02102006/

On the right side of the page, you get the link to all the old Smackdowns archived and on the bottom of the page, there's "Photos" which you can click on to find pics from the show. Everything involving MIZARK can be found including pics from the Benoit match. If you need something from ECW or Raw just change it in the address bar from Smackdown to either show *as well as the date* in the form it appears. Which would be mmddyyyy.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I hope Henry gets a run with the WWE title. Even if it's short.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know I said I was done with the STARZ, but I recorded them as a personal reference for how good I thought Wrestlemania XXIX was and I don't really think that they do the show justice on a personal level as every match besides perhaps one or two had something ridiculously positive to take away from it (Cena winning the title again thank GOD), or was actually a really fucking good match. The No Holds Barred match is ridiculously polarizing and I can actually see why as HHH and Brock fucking kill each other but it's at a slower pace and you know, I get why an individual wouldn't like it that much. Taker/Punk is a really, really awesome match for the ages and the standout match from the event that'll be associated with the name Wrestlemania XXIX for years and years to come like XXV is thought of as the Taker-HBK show. 

The Shield match I thought was a very good opener which showed off the strengths of all three men. I thought that Big Show did really well but I wasn't particularly feeling Sheamus or Orton in their so It wasn't AS GOOD, but still really great. Henry-Ryback is still a great big man vs big man contest that's going to go down as one of the most underrated matches ever even though Ryback bumps like a madman and we get some awesome exchanges throughout. Jericho-Fandango, The Tag Titles, & Del Rio-Swagger were just kind of THERE, which would be a complain alot of people would have against the show I guess... It's just kind of THERE. 

The Main Event sucked hard but what would you really expect, it produced the desired result and that's all I care about at this point. Bought Extreme Rules 2013 yesterday and I'm gonna give that a rewatch to see how all of these fantastic matches hold up... & I could watch Miz Vs Wade Barrett if I wanted but I'd rather kill myself so there you go.

& YES. Work on the Henry list begins SOON, after I drive my girlfriend to work .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Tag Titles match was 'there' but fuck me, it was so much fun. Had probably the 2nd hottest crowd all night and the 18 Seconds Of Doom callback was awesome.

:kane :dazzler :ziggler3 :langston


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Old thread went too quickly..



cjack828 said:


> I'm gonna have to find that match thanks man.


Here you go:






Great match, *****1/2* from me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Little confession here: I'm a fan of Steiner/Test @ Unforgiven '03.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Old thread accomplished so much in so little time. ****1/2. RIP to one of the GOAT threads.

Almost finished with my mini-Summerslam project, just watching four more matches. DX/Legacy 2009 up next.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for the old thread. They've been going downhill for a while now. I remember the ***** ones. Good times .

Might stick in the Raw's Most Memorable Matches DVD in later. Wanna watch Undertaker/Jeff ladder again and HBK/Jericho WM 19 rematch in 03.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I loved that hbk/jericho wm 19 rematch


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Mark Henry vs Randy Orton - NOC '11 - ***1/2
Cena vs Del Rio - NOC '11 - ***
Punk vs Trips - NOC '11 - ***3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just turned on Extreme Rules 2013... Remember it being pretty fucking terrible sans the fantastic main event bout, wish me luck.

On a side note, before I post some of the list later, what do you guys have as your greatest Mark Henry match ever? Top five? Top ten? I wanna come out and see just how underappreciated he really is .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit Cal, you're harsh on even your own threads :no:

Top 10 Henry? At top of my head: vs Cena MITB, vs Punk Miami, vs Orton NOC, vs Bryan Cage, vs Show Vengeance, vs Goldberg 2003, vs Taker WM rematch, vs Finlay Armageddon, vs Punk No DQ and vs Matt H. NM 2008.

New discussion: funniest match ever?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> New discussion: funniest match ever?


Recently, it's easily this. I laughed so hard I was in tears. Both guys were basically playing hot potato with the contract and Cole's trying to sell it, "YOU'VE GOT TO CONTROL THE CONTRACT!"




Then Sheamus comes out and buries the match and cuts a dumbass promo.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Ten GOAT Henry matches:

vs. Punk 4/2/12
vs. Punk 4/16/12
vs. Bryan Cage Match
vs. Big Show Vengeance 2011
vs. Hardy No Mercy 2008
vs. Orton Night of Champions 2011
vs. Hardy 8/19/08
vs. Mysterio 1/20/2006
vs. Sheamus Summerslam 2011
vs. Undertaker SD 2006



ATF said:


> I'm done watching the weirdest Handicap match of all time - Mankind, Rock & Shamrock vs Brothers of Destruction. If ya haven't seen it, it has its moments but it's more for the lulz than anything.


You think that's weird? Check out Punk vs. Jericho/JBL during the ADAMLE era. Stipulation made no sense.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Top Ten GOAT Henry matches:
> 
> vs. Punk 4/2/12
> vs. Punk 4/16/12
> ...


This x100

IDK why its not talked about more, MOTN on a stacked card, very good sluggfest


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I might do a Chris Jericho top 10 or top 25.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Don't have a top 10 Henry matches off the top of my head, but vs. Punk Raw 4/2/12 would be number 1, match with Punk a few weeks later would be in the top 10, and same thing with his match with Show at Vengeance, and against Bryan in the cage. Maybe his matches against Orton at NOC and Sheamus at SS would be on there as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ATF said:


> New discussion: funniest match ever?







IT'S MILD :lol.

Liking these Henry lists, but I think they need some more love from a few different guys... Gotta keep things hidden and hushed for now though.

Watching Extreme Rules 2013 like I said before and I'll say this so far as I'm two matches in; Jericho/Fandango was decent & Ambrose/Kofi wasn't good at all.... Sheamus/Henry is up next and IIRC from about three weeks ago, it's a disgrace compared to what these two are capable of. This show isn't looking promising.

So I have another question for you all; best Henry opponent?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Ratings for the series of matches between Bret Hart and Diesel *

Bret Hart vs Diesel- King of the Ring 1994
*Rating:* ★★★1/4

Bret Hart vs Diesel- The Royal Rumble 1995 
*Rating:* ★★★★

Bret Hart vs Diesel- Survivor Series 1995
*Rating: * ★★★★1/4

Bret Hart vs Diesel in a Steel Cage- IYH: Rage in a Cage 1995
*Rating:* ★★★1/4

Also gave their match in Bethlehem a watch. Didn't think too high of it. Some nice leg work from Bret Hart but Diesel forgets to sell the left leg at times, making the whole left-leg work pointless. It also didn't come into play with the finish which made it even more pointless. Decent match but it was their weakest match against each other. ★★★ for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would do a Henry list, but I need to (re)watch more of his stuff because now, only a few matches come to mind.



iwatchwrestling said:


> Recently, it's easily this. I laughed so hard I was in tears. Both guys were basically playing hot potato with the contract and Cole's trying to sell it, "YOU'VE GOT TO CONTROL THE CONTRACT!"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They probably told him to go out and interrupt it since the contract falling was probably a botch and they were improvising with the hot potato thing.

But yeah, it had me in tears. :lol


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

As for the funniest match, look no further than this:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Diesel/Hart is a brilliant series, with the Survivor Series bout being my 1995 WWE MOTY IIRC (THAT or like, Hart/Bulldog from a month later which is vastly superior to the Wembley Stadium match that everybody jizzes over). The Rumble & KOTR matches always get me too, Shawn is such a litle bitch in the KOTR bout that it just keeps adding on to how good it is. 

Speaking of Bret, that motherfucker has like FOUR three disc sets dedicated to him. His original set, The Dungeon Collection, Shawn Vs Bret, & Hart & Soul all either center around him or he comprises a majority of the content on it. If they can release a new set for Bret ever two years, surely Undertaker's gonna have another five or six three disc sets before it's all said and done .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Diesel/Bret series is incredible with Svs 95 the best (alittle ahead of hbk/jarrett as my MOTY for 95) and rumble and KOTR right behind it. I hold them in very high regard. Svs 95 is Diesel's best match in the company and a top 5 for Bret IMO. I'm a Shawn mark and I have no probelm admitting Bret got the very best out of Nash


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Diesel/Bret at SS 1995 was incredible, though their RR bout is close.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Jack Swagger Vs Alberto Del Rio in an I Quit Match.

"WHEN DID WE START USING REPLAY" - John "Bradshaw" Layfield.

Fucking garbage, four matches in and this show has been TERRIBLE.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Jack Swagger Vs Alberto Del Rio in an I Quit Match.
> 
> "WHEN DID WE START USING REPLAY" - John "Bradshaw" Layfield.
> 
> Fucking garbage, four matches in and this show has been TERRIBLE.


:lmao Because that shit was so stupid. Same with Miz/Cena in 2011. Another level of stupid, actually.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't expect much else, KOK. Hell No/Shield and HHH/Lesnar are the only ones worth it.

Such a drunk shame when compared to last year's ER.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked Extreme Rules this year. The main event was easily the best of the trilogy, Ryback/Cena was not that bad and I may be biased but I enjoyed Orton/Show quite a bit too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean, that match wasn't exactly Miz-Cena levels of bad as that match is probably Cena's worst match ever, but it was pretty fucking bad. Sheamus-Henry was no doubt both Sheamus AND Henry's worst match since 2011 (Henry's worst match of the 2000's era probably), while Ambrose-Kofi was very mediocre & Jericho-Fandango was just a good opener, nothing to go crazy over.

I remember this Tornado Tag being okay, so let's see where we can go from here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Payback and MITB were x1000 better anyway. I probably take WM 29 over it too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I hope Ambrose gets a chance to have some great singles matches soon, at least on PPV, because right now he's only got like Kane and Kofi under his belt. I get that he's still not even been there a year, and Shield's feud have all been as a group. I'm REALLY looking forward to Ambrose getting to spread his wings and be the GOAT heel we know he can be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MEH on Payback. Cena-Ryback sucked, Punk-Jericho wasn't good, Orton/Bryan Vs The Shield was quite boring, Ambrose Vs Kane was terrible... Del Rio-Ziggler was fucking awesome & Kaitlyn-AJ was good as well, but that's about it for me on that show. It was nice to see Punk come back I guess, but in the end the match just didn't deliver how I wanted it too and was based more off of flash and finishers than anything else.

The Tornado Tag that I just watched was quite average and tame by Hell No/Shield standards. I'm not a Kane fan by any means (I actually think he sucks pretty fucking hard for the most part), but I expected more out of this match.

Yeah, the jury's still out on Dean for me. He hasn't been god at all as a singles worker but he hasn't really gotten a chance to shine against some good opponents, working with the likes of Kane & Kofi. Rollins has easily been the best in-ring so far, with Reigns showing flashes of greatness as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> MEH on Payback. Cena-Ryback sucked, Punk-Jericho wasn't good, Orton/Bryan Vs The Shield was quite boring, Ambrose Vs Kane was terrible... Del Rio-Ziggler was fucking awesome & Kaitlyn-AJ was good as well, but that's about it for me on that show. It was nice to see Punk come back I guess, but in the end the match just didn't deliver how I wanted it too and was based more off of flash and finishers than anything else.
> 
> The Tornado Tag that I just watched was quite average and tame by Hell No/Shield standards. I'm not a Kane fan by any means (I actually think he sucks pretty fucking hard for the most part), but I expected more out of this match.
> 
> Yeah, the jury's still out on Dean for me. He hasn't been god at all as a singles worker but he hasn't really gotten a chance to shine against some good opponents, working with the likes of Kane & Kofi. Rollins has easily been the best in-ring so far, with Reigns showing flashes of greatness as well.


Man I normally respect your opinions, but saying punk vs Jericho at payback suckednwhile kaitlyn vs aj was good?? You sir are crazy I totally loved punk bs Jericho, I liked the ring rust story they told, they had some excellent false finishes in the end, I mean I liked that match more than Ziggler vs ADR and Ziggler ADR was fantastic. I just put punk Jericho over it because it had more give and take instead of Ziggler just getting his head kicked In the whole time. Oh we'll, that's wrestling though everyone is gonna have a different opinion,


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I think they wanted to make Punk/Jericho a classic without a story behind it. IMO, it was nowhere near their WM and ER bouts from the previous year, and I appreciate the match for what it was, but Del Rio/Ziggler was a damn fine story and miles better. Punk/Jericho just seemed to go on longer than it needed.

Part of me wonders if they actually planned the double turn, because Chicago was probably going to side with Ziggler anyways. Vince probably jizzed himself when Del Rio got booed and rushed him back for a promo after the match. Those kicks in that match were !!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It could have been anybody else but Dull Rio, that's my only problem with the match.

Punk-Jericho had no real story being told during the match and that was my problem with it; it didn't need to exist. It was just moves and a whole bunch of finishers, no real aggression or passion put into it, both guys seemed like they were on cruise control the entire time. I like AJ Vs Kaitlyn more because it was aggressive, in your face, and knew exactly what it wanted to be; if those two went at it on every PPV I wouldn't be disappointed as they have some INSANE chemistry in terms of diva work.

Randall Viper All Star Who Doesn't Bump Vs Big Show has been extremely underwhelming thus far.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Nostalgia said:


> Old thread went too quickly..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you very much sir I will watch that as soon as I'm done with the elimination chamber 2002 match. Just bought the Satans deadliest match box set that has all elimination chamber matches on it for $7.99 at best buy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Payback was total shit. Other than Ziggler/Del Rio, there's nothing memorable to take from that show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> It could have been anybody else but Dull Rio, that's my only problem with the match.
> 
> Punk-Jericho had no real story being told during the match and that was my problem with it; it didn't need to exist. It was just moves and a whole bunch of finishers, no real aggression or passion put into it, both guys seemed like they were on cruise control the entire time. I like AJ Vs Kaitlyn more because it was aggressive, in your face, and knew exactly what it wanted to be; if those two went at it on every PPV I wouldn't be disappointed as they have some INSANE chemistry in terms of diva work.
> 
> Randall Viper All Star Who Doesn't Bump Vs Big Show has been extremely underwhelming thus far.



I think the purpose for that match was to entertain the audience, who else was punk gonna wrestle at that ppv? They weren't gonna waste punk Brock for a b ppv, and they also definitely weren't gonna have a ppv in Chicago with punk not on the card. So in the match they just told a simple story about punks ring rust and Jericho not willing to allow punk to claim he's "the best in the world" without proving it. I think it would have worked better if Jericho won, the fact that the ending was so predictable is I think what turned a lot of people off. I will give you that during the first 5 min or so of the match, both guys def appeared to be on cruise control, but after that the pace picked up considerably IMHO.

Ziggler del rio undoubtedly told the better story, but for in ring back and forth action, I think punk Jericho was better by a small margin. Anyways, that's my story and I'm sticking to it, haha.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So, going into the Last Man Standing match w/ Ryback and Cena at the moment and I can honestly say that December to Dismember is better at this point... At least that show had the awesome tag match opener.

Hoping it gets better.

This year has been HORRIBLE for PPV action to be completely honest, as Royal Rumble might be my pick for the absolute WORST show of the last ten years while Elimination Chamber was a complete one match show, as was Payback and Extreme Rules (if Brock/HHH holds up). Money in the Bank was a well rounded card with a lackluster main event, while Wrestlemania was okay/goodish.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

About to watch Orton/Cena Iron Man Match for the first time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They put all the effort on TV this year it seems.

:vince4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> They put all the effort on TV this year it seems.
> 
> :vince4


Which is interesting because last year a report came out that said Vince wanted all the work to go into PPV and basically wasn't putting much effort into Raw/Smackdown. He just hoped people wouldn't be so put off by TV that they'd watch the PPV. I'm pretty sure that was last year.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I liked Extreme Rules. I haven't seen Payback yet and probably won't unless I'm bored out of my skull one day. I don't care about Ziggler or Del Rio and a thrown together Punk/Jericho match does nothing for me. PPV has been pretty shitty this year though. Outside 4 matches, nothing has passed the 4* mark and I currently don't have anything ranked higher than ****1/4. It's been all TV and even still I have nothing past ****1/4. TV has been consistent as hell and lots more fun too considering you don't have to pay for it. Shield and Bryan rule the 2013 world.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Can't forget about Antonio Cesaro. He is par on with Daniel Bryan as far as consistency goes.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cesaro hasn't completely won me over just yet. When he's against somebody interesting I'll watch but he isn't like Bryan who has reached the point where I'll watch his matches no matter who he's in there with. If Cesaro gets some more promotion, a storyline and a couple of big matches to his name, then I'll put him up there but for now it's Bryan and the Shield in rarefied air atm. Unfortunately the Shield have gone a bit cold recently but their work up to Mania/ER was godly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield as far as workrate goes are still in a pedestal since the Usos feud began. Tbh I'd give the 6-Man Tag vs Usos & :henry1 around ***1/4.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Payback is PPV of the year so far for me. Awesome Del Rio/Ziggler match, great Punk/Jericho match, best divas match in a long time, great IC Title triple triple threat, good Shield tag, and overall it far exceeded any expectations I had for it.

ER sucked (didn't help the main event was poor and the best match of the nightwasn't even great), Mania was a one match show, EC was pretty good but no standout matches, RR was meh, and MITB was a mixed bag. All-star MITB ladder match sucked, but the WHC MITB Ladder match is in my top 3 of the year, and one of the best MITB's imo. Definite top 5 and maybe even top 3. Cena/Henry was poor, but Ziggler/Del Rio was great. AJ/Kaitlyn was decent but nowhere near their PB bout. Jericho/Ryback was meh, and the rest I'm kinda fuzzy on.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Outside the matches I have on my 2013 list, I'd struggle to name many matches from PPV this year tbh. So uneventful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MENG.

that's good for a first post.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> Payback is PPV of the year so far for me. Awesome Del Rio/Ziggler match, great Punk/Jericho match, best divas match in a long time, great IC Title triple triple threat, good Shield tag, and overall it far exceeded any expectations I had for it.
> 
> ER sucked (didn't help the main event was poor and the best match of the nightwasn't even great), Mania was a one match show, EC was pretty good but no standout matches, RR was meh, and MITB was a mixed bag. All-star MITB ladder match sucked, but the WHC MITB Ladder match is in my top 3 of the year, and one of the best MITB's imo. Definite top 5 and maybe even top 3. Cena/Henry was poor, but Ziggler/Del Rio was great. AJ/Kaitlyn was decent but nowhere near their PB bout. Jericho/Ryback was meh, and the rest I'm kinda fuzzy on.


FINALLY someone else admits the triple threat I.c. Match was good. I couldn't have cared less about any of the three participants, but I managed to thoroughly enjoy it anyway because it was a really solid match, 3-stars for me.

Just watched the taker vs edge hiac match from summerslam 08'. That was pretty good, it's not on the same level as hbk taker, foley triple h,Batista trips, taker trips, foley taker, or even Brock vs taker, but it was still a very solid match, prolly just makes the top 10 for all hiac matches I've seen. **** in my opinion. The extra ending with taker setting up all the ladders and chokelsamming edge off them through the ring was cool, but kind of unnecessary for me. He'd already won the match and beat the living hell out of edge, I didn't see the point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it was a good match. Loads better than I think anyone expected it to be. Still didn't think Payback was a all that special of a show though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dear God Cena Vs Ryback was dull as fuck.

Anywhoways, this is probably the worst year ever for Main Event matches, with Brock-Trips in the cage being the only main event bout that's anything more than mediocre, let alone FANTASTIC.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

R.I.P. Old Thread, I will miss you

****3/4 for that thread


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you take away The MOTY in del rio/ziggler and the hot chicago crowd and its a DUD ppv tbh. Conversely IMO mitb 13 was one of the best ppvs of the pg era


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB far > Payback for me too. MITB never fails. Tremendous franchise at this point. This year's compiled a nice slew of matches and and undercard I didn't dislike the entire way through. Only Jericho vs Ryback. That's a pretty good curve.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yup, PPV main events this year have been awful, apart from Brock/HHH in the cage - and some people hate that. Re-watched the All stars MITB match and it barely got any better, really felt like it didn't have any structure at all with no one apart from Sheamus willing to put their bodies on the line and take some legit bumps. The workers in the WHC match maybe thought they had more to prove and thus put on more of a spectacle. Axel's run-in to stop Bryan winning is just dumb too, they didn't even go anywhere with that did they? They might have had a match on Raw that I missed but that just seemed so out of place.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, they didn't have a match. It was just a useless bit to have Danielson not win the match. Couldn't someone in the match have taken him out instead? RVD b/c he was the final guy Orton knocked off before winning. At least that makes some sense. Main events have easily fallen flat this year. I'm with ABH, only one I really liked was Brock vs Trips in the cage. All Stars match wasn't dreadful, however it wasn't too special. Watchable and easily the second best, but that analysis isn't too much of a compliment.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah, they didn't have a match. It was just a useless bit to have Danielson not win the match. Couldn't someone in the match have taken him out instead? RVD b/c he was the final guy Orton knocked off before winning. At least that makes some sense. Main events have easily fallen flat this year. I'm with ABH, only one I really liked was Brock vs Trips in the cage. All Stars match wasn't dreadful, however it wasn't too special. Watchable and easily the second best, but that analysis isn't too much of a compliment.


Well that was extremely dumb then. I guess the only thing you could say is that it allowed Heyman to come out and yell "what are you doing?" and thus left him at ringside to complete his turn on Punk. But they could have handled that whole thing a lot better, that's for sure.

For me, PPV main events this year:

Brock/HHH Extreme Rules - *****1/4*
All Stars MITB - ***1/4*
Punk/Rock Elimination Chamber - **3/4*
Cena/Ryback Payback - **1/2*
Cena/Rock Mania - **1/4*
Punk/Rock Royal Rumble - *DUDSVILLE*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Trips
MITB All Stars
Cena vs Ryback
Punk vs Rock II
Cena vs Rock
Punk vs Rock I

meh, matches four & five are interchangeable b/c they're terrible. Hated all three with Rock. Cena vs Ryback was bad; just didn't HATE it. Like I said MITB was average and then boom - awesomeness with the cage.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Honestly, Brock/Trips craps on the other main events, with Raw MITB the only one even close, and it's not that close. Smackdown MITB was loads better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Brock vs Trips
> MITB All Stars
> Cena vs Ryback
> Punk vs Rock II
> ...


THIS xInfinity.

43-31 of the Henry list coming within the hour more than likely.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I personally believe HHH/BROCK 3 is the weakest out of the three but to each is own. PPV matches have been horrid this but its been great on TV.

What are you guy's thoughts on Savage/Steamboat wm 3 ? Overrated ? ***** classic ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Savage vs Steamboat is great. I don't have any objections with those who keep it in high regard. I'm a fan.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll tell you where this year succeded a lot: the technical aspect. Probably one of the best years ever for that. 

If you forget the existence of P. Diddy, every PPV theme was solid or badass (Bones :mark: ), promo packages and stuff are awesome, arena setups... if PPV in-ring work lived up to its technical work, you had the GOAT year.

EDIT: Savage/Steamboat: Great? Absolutely. Revolutionary? You bet. *****? Hell no.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best PPV main event this year would probably be Punk/Rock EC, followed by their Rumble match, then Cena/Ryback PB, then Lesnar/HHH ER, Rock/Cena WM and finally the all-star MITB match.

None of them I'd consider great. On my last watch though, the all-star MITB just went down so low.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah, they didn't have a match. It was just a useless bit to have Danielson not win the match. Couldn't someone in the match have taken him out instead? RVD b/c he was the final guy Orton knocked off before winning. At least that makes some sense. Main events have easily fallen flat this year. I'm with ABH, only one I really liked was Brock vs Trips in the cage. All Stars match wasn't dreadful, however it wasn't too special. Watchable and easily the second best, but that analysis isn't too much of a compliment.


I haven't seen MiTB yet so I will have to check it out and compare with the others, but I'd have to agree that PPV's this year have sucked a whole lot of suck. Raw and Smackdown have actually been very good though, especially compared to last year which I think will go down as the worst TV year of the last 10+ years. I think MiTB might replace KoTR and become one of WWE's "A" events in the future, because so far there hasn't been a dud, and 2011 had the GOAT match of the PG era.

Does it make me a weirdo or a sick SOB that in my view the lack of blood in the no DQ,cell, cage, fca, etc matches that take place nowadays takes something away from the matches? I've been watching a ton of stuff from the ruthless aggression era lately and it just makes some of those matches seem a ton more hard hitting, dramatic, and impactful than the ones we see today. I mean hbk bleeding like a stuck pig really put his hiac match with taker over the top for me, without it I think it would take a lot away from what in my view is the greatest main event ever. Triple h bleeding all over the place while Batista bashed his skull in with a barbed wire chair is an amazing site to see, and something I guess we won't get anymore. Then again in Guerrero vs jbl judgement day the excessive blood killed the match for me and I have a hard time watching it through without getting sick to my stomach.

I dunno just a thought I had, I'm new so I'm sure it's been discussed here before.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pretty sure I'd have Savage/Steamboat in top 10 WWE all time. 



HayleySabin said:


> MENG.
> 
> that's good for a first post.


You have no idea how happy this made me. I'm actually cheerier and looking forward to the possibly shitty day I have ahead of me.



cjack828 said:


> Does it make me a weirdo or a sick SOB that in my view the lack of blood in the no DQ,cell, cage, fca, etc matches that take place nowadays takes something away from the matches? I've been watching a ton of stuff from the ruthless aggression era lately and it just makes some of those matches seem a ton more hard hitting, dramatic, and impactful than the ones we see today.


I think a large part of that is the fact that the gimmicks were actually used to end hate feuds and now they're 'lmao this ppv is coming up and you two are opponents - YOU GET THE CELL!!!!!!!'


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> I haven't seen MiTB yet so I will have to check it out and compare with the others, but I'd have to agree that PPV's this year have sucked a whole lot of suck. Raw and Smackdown have actually been very good though, especially compared to last year which I think will go down as the worst TV year of the last 10+ years. I think MiTB might replace KoTR and become one of WWE's "A" events in the future, because so far there hasn't been a dud, and 2011 had the GOAT match of the PG era.
> 
> Does it make me a weirdo or a sick SOB that in my view the lack of blood in the no DQ,cell, cage, fca, etc matches that take place nowadays takes something away from the matches? I've been watching a ton of stuff from the ruthless aggression era lately and it just makes some of those matches seem a ton more hard hitting, dramatic, and impactful than the ones we see today. I mean hbk bleeding like a stuck pig really put his hiac match with taker over the top for me, without it I think it would take a lot away from what in my view is the greatest main event ever. Triple h bleeding all over the place while Batista bashed his skull in with a barbed wire chair is an amazing site to see, and something I guess we won't get anymore. Then again in Guerrero vs jbl judgement day the excessive blood killed the match for me and I have a hard time watching it through without getting sick to my stomach.
> 
> I dunno just a thought I had, I'm new so I'm sure it's been discussed here before.


Having someone bleed heavily definitely adds to matches like HIAC, but I don't think it's a dealbreaker in terms of how good they are. Would I like there to be some blading during matches again? Yes, but you can see why they don't allow it anymore and it's not a huge deal IMO. On the flip side, now that there's no blood it makes everyone FREAK OUT when their is some accidental blood spilled.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I haven't seen MiTB yet so I will have to check it out and compare with the others, but I'd have to agree that PPV's this year have sucked a whole lot of suck. Raw and Smackdown have actually been very good though, especially compared to last year which I think will go down as the worst TV year of the last 10+ years. I think MiTB might replace KoTR and become one of WWE's "A" events in the future, because so far there hasn't been a dud, and 2011 had the GOAT match of the PG era.
> 
> Does it make me a weirdo or a sick SOB that in my view the lack of blood in the no DQ,cell, cage, fca, etc matches that take place nowadays takes something away from the matches? I've been watching a ton of stuff from the ruthless aggression era lately and it just makes some of those matches seem a ton more hard hitting, dramatic, and impactful than the ones we see today. I mean hbk bleeding like a stuck pig really put his hiac match with taker over the top for me, without it I think it would take a lot away from what in my view is the greatest main event ever. Triple h bleeding all over the place while Batista bashed his skull in with a barbed wire chair is an amazing site to see, and something I guess we won't get anymore. Then again in Guerrero vs jbl judgement day the excessive blood killed the match for me and I have a hard time watching it through without getting sick to my stomach.
> 
> I dunno just a thought I had, I'm new so I'm sure it's been discussed here before.


Agreed as most do. TV has been very swell meanwhile the PPVs haven't given you too much to appreciate on the year. MITB & WM are the only full shows where I really enjoyed the entire way. Payback was close. It did have its down points however. Main events failed to pull through except for the superb World Championship match.

And nah. Blood in wrestling is there for a reason if not from hard way. IT's to create that hightened intensity & tension. This man is psychically bleeding in the ring as fans watch on TV & in the arenas and we love the story it can generally tell. You mentioned Eddie vs JBL and I couldn't disagree more. It was that gruesome scene that took that already molten atmosphere and upped it to, not to eleven, but to TWENTY. Blood used for the right purposes is certainly a missing ingredient for big time grudges. Hell in a Cell really does benefit from blood as you look in the past. It doesn't NEED it, but it can help the story.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody Gon' Get Dey Ass Kicked; The Top 43 Mark Henry Singles Bouts Ever

43.









World Heavyweight Championship - Mark Henry(c) Vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell 2011)


42.









Mark Henry Vs The Big Show (Money in the Bank 2011)


41.










Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 1/27/2006)


40.









Mark Henry Vs Triple H (RAW 6/3/2008)


39.









World Heavyweight Championship (Lumberjack Match) - Mark Henry Vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 1/20/2012)


38.









Mark Henry Vs John Morrison (RAW 10/17/2011)


37.









Mark Henry Vs The Big Show (Smackdown 2/21/2012)


36.









Mark Henry Vs Primo (Superstars 6/2/2010)


35.









Mark Henry Vs John Morrison (RAW 10/3/2011)


34.









Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne (ECW 6/16/2009)


33.









Mark Henry Vs Jerry Lawler (IYH Mind Games 1996)


32.









Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (RAW 4/29/2011 ... Yes I understand that it's a Smackdown picture, whatever)


31.









Mark Henry Vs Christian (Smackdown 6/3/2011)


:henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1 :henry1

(FORTY THREE HENRY SMILIES TO KICK OFF THIS SHINDIG)​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> You have no idea how happy this made me. I'm actually cheerier and looking forward to the possibly shitty day I have ahead of me.




Evan, the Henry list looks wonderful but WHY did you have to stretch my page the way you did? I know the Henry vs Morrison match is great, however BOOO @ stretching.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KOK, use this:










or











#death2stretch


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Agreed as most do. TV has been very swell meanwhile the PPVs haven't given you too much to appreciate on the year. MITB & WM are the only full shows where I really enjoyed the entire way. Payback was close. It did have its down points however. Main events failed to pull through except for the superb World Championship match.
> 
> And nah. Blood in wrestling is there for a reason if not from hard way. IT's to create that hightened intensity & tension. This man is psychically bleeding in the ring as fans watch on TV & in the arenas and we love the story it can generally tell. You mentioned Eddie vs JBL and I couldn't disagree more. It was that gruesome scene that took that already molten atmosphere and upped it to, not to eleven, but to TWENTY. Blood used for the right purposes is certainly a missing ingredient for big time grudges. Hell in a Cell really does benefit from blood as you look in the past. It doesn't NEED it, but it can help the story.


I think I can't watch judgement day 2004 because I knew what happened afterwards before I saw the actual match, that Eddie (who has always been my favorite wrestler) was rushed to the hospital for massive blood loss and actually passed out in the ambulance on the way. I cut my leg on a circular saw once and lost almost a 1/4 of my blood, That's some really scary shit, and when I saw the fountain of blood pouring out of his head after that unbelievable chair shot, I just started getting really nervous and almost couldnt make it through the whole thing. It is incredibly dramatic to watch though, I can't imagine what the fans in attendance that night felt like.

I understand business wise why wwe wants to be pg, because they can get a ton of money in sponsorship/endorsement dollars they wouldn't have otherwise, but I do think wrestling gets held to a different standard than anything else. There is blood and sex and violent acts in a lot of pg rated shows and movies, but heaven forbid wrestling ever did something like that, or it would be back to tv-14 ratings.

Which matches would you guys like to see on PPV that wwe hasn't offered yet? I'd like to see some Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry before Henry actually retires. I know they have wrestled on tv but I'd like a nice 20+ minutes of PPV quality action.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I think I can't watch judgement day 2004 because I knew what happened afterwards before I saw the actual match, that Eddie (who has always been my favorite wrestler) was rushed to the hospital for massive blood loss and actually passed out in the ambulance on the way. I cut my leg on a circular saw once and lost almost a 1/4 of my blood, That's some really scary shit, and when I saw the fountain of blood pouring out of his head after that unbelievable chair shot, I just started getting really nervous and almost couldnt make it through the whole thing. It is incredibly dramatic to watch though, I can't imagine what the fans in attendance that night felt like.
> 
> I understand business wise why wwe wants to be pg, because they can get a ton of money in sponsorship/endorsement dollars they wouldn't have otherwise, but I do think wrestling gets held to a different standard than anything else. There is blood and sex and violent acts in a lot of pg rated shows and movies, but heaven forbid wrestling ever did something like that, or it would be back to tv-14 ratings.
> 
> Which matches would you guys like to see on PPV that wwe hasn't offered yet? I'd like to see some Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry before Henry actually retires. I know they have wrestled on tv but I'd like a nice 20+ minutes of PPV quality action.


Ah, I see. Perfectly understandable considering the scenario. I've been fortunate enough to never had anything that drastic occur to me so the match, while I view it, doesn't quite hit home. It's still absurd and gravely brutal, but it's one of my all time favorite matches. It's great, emotional, a bit scary, and shows the heart wrestlers can produce in dire situations.

THANK YOU. The Office is TV PG and yet it deals with sex as a topic on a frequent basis. Yet WWE can't talk about that. Can't show a bit of heightened violence. Can't do anything remotely taboo and I think it is a bit extreme. Ok, fine we're not in the Attitude or Ruthless Aggression eras. Not a problem. Why does that have to force WWE to have to try and put the product at a different level? The topics at hand can be toned down. Just not completely removed. Don't understand it. PG on tv isn't PG like how it is in movies. I think WWE priorities are trying to please the wrong people and not to those who actually like & care to watch the product.

PPV match that we haven't gotten yet? Danielson vs Henry would be grand. That's a good pick for me. To offer something new I'd say Cesaro vs Sheamus on PPV. Or Cesaro vs a slew of talent. Even someone who's currently a heel like Rollins. Cesaro vs Rollins on PPV with a nice bit of time behind it. I'd salivate.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (RAW 4/29/2011 ... Yes I understand that it's a Smackdown picture, whatever)


Probably b/c the match actually happened on smackdown 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fizy6BsnMHU


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hoping I see a Henry vs Kane match make the list. They have a few 3-5 minute slugfests that rock. One match from 2011 right before Kane left was really good iirc.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I think instead of * ratings we should use these :angle :angle :angle


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Just downloading Summerslam 2005 from the 2005 PPV Pack that Dark Match Jobber put up in the multimedia-related part of the forum. I believe it's the only Summerslam after maybe Summerslam 1994 that I haven't seen in it's entirety, for whatever reason. I've always meant to watch it but for some reason I never have, so I'll be watching that in the morning


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Watching Batista vs taker last man standing, ill post my thoughts when it's done.

After that, hayley, just for you, im gonna try and rematch judgement day 2004 Guerrero vs jbl. You said it's one of your favorite matches ever and Eddie is my favorite wrestler I need to just suck it up and watch the whole thing. I remember it being pretty dramatic but I didn't know it was held in such high regard.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Fucking :lol @ that stretch in the previous page.

An interesting start so far for the list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Watching Batista vs taker last man standing, ill post my thoughts when it's done.
> 
> After that, hayley, just for you, im gonna try and rematch judgement day 2004 Guerrero vs jbl. You said it's one of your favorite matches ever and Eddie is my favorite wrestler I need to just suck it up and watch the whole thing. I remember it being pretty dramatic but I didn't know it was held in such high regard.




It's my pick for _(at least)_ WWE MOTY in 2004. It's easily top five - top three material worldwide too. Can never tire of it. Eddie made JBL into a main event player that night.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

eddie/jbl is yet another classic Ive NEVER seen before, thats high praise Cody, without seeing eddie/jbl,orton/foley is my MOTY for 04


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WATCH


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> eddie/jbl is yet another classic Ive NEVER seen before, thats high praise Cody, without seeing eddie/jbl,orton/foley is my MOTY for 04


Orton foley is my fave from that year as well, I'm a huge foley mark and that's his second best match ever behind mind games. He MADE randy orton that night, so so sick.


Wow, big thumbs down for last man standing matches that end in draws. It pissed me off when foley and rocky did it, but they had such a great match that I can let it slide. Batista vs taker was not a great match, so I can't let it slide, even with that cool spear off the stage spot they did to end it. I give it 3 stars and that's being generous. Both guys seemed like they were trying really hard but I just couldn't get into it, i zoned out several times and great matches should always hold your attention.

On to jbl vs Eddie judgement day 2004. I'm really excited I hope it doesn't disappoint on the second watch (this will be the first time I watch the entire match though)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Undertaker vs Batista. Draw at the end never upset me. Except for the fact that the spot injured The Undertaker. Ooh I was furious once I read he was hurt that day I got home from school.

Well lets how things go this time around. I can't see anyone not at least liking it once the match is finished. It's just great. All the x factors were there and the finish doesn't even come close to hurting it. Which is probably the biggest positive one could throw at it seeing how matches with jip finishes like that can leave some folks sour more often than not.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There are so many great matches from 2004. The list of MOTY candidates simply never ends.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most of it is from RAW too. RAW was stellar that year. Evolution tags, Orton vs Edge series, Orton vs Benoit, Shelton bursting out on the scene, etc. Great stuff. Every week felt big.

I know there was a lengthy Flair vs Regal match that I must see again.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Even Eugene wasn't that bad. 

Coachman (Otunga today reminds me of him) cracked me up every time I saw him in 2004, that was the year when he first became a heel I think. Tajiri green misting him was also a funny moment which got Tajiri in trouble as he got into a match with Kane. Sadly for Tajiri, getting drafted to RAW was the start of his decline in the WWE. He should have stayed in Smackdown! because their Crusierweight division started to suck after him and Ultimo Dragon left. Billy Kidman and Paul London were too busy in the tag team division. No wonder Chavo Guerrero was feuding with Jacqueline.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Coach turned heel in SummerSlam 03. But yeah, Tajiri spitting the mist in his face in that backstage segment was hilarious. La Resistance set him up on that one. And even with him becoming irrelevant, he got to work with Evolution in a few solid matches.

I look through the 2004 Raws and it seems like every week there's at least one good match. Most of them either involve Benoit or Orton. These two were amazing that year. 04 might be my favorite year in the company's history. For quality and as a mark. For the latter, my two favorites end every single big four PPV on top.

The problem with Eugene (one of the worse parts of that year IMO) is he was overexposed. It's like they had the summer dedicated to him when he was the focus in the freaking title matches. Vengeance main event was more about what he will do rather than a title match between Benoit and HHH. The ironman match also ended with him taking the spotlight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tajiri almost defeating Triple H that one night was fantastic. Tajiri guys, Tajiri.

Yeah, Orton & Benoit were excellent that year. Orton's career year & Benoit adding more great wrestling to his resume.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Always thought Coachman turned heel in 2004. He used to do commentary in RAW 2003 (from the segments I've watched) as a face but then again, I never watched RAW 2003 (just watched SD! at the time) and I started watching RAW in 2004. 

Eugene was okay in 2004 from what I remember. He did have that segment with the Rock and some of his involvement with Evolution was fine. He started to annoy me in 2005 much more than in 2004. Out of all the people that they could have decided to end Kurt Angle's gold medal invitational, it had to be Eugene. Well in some ways it was better than Striker beating Angle for it who had two tries at it. His booking was like AJ last year. She was involved in every single thing in the show; world title feuds, top stars and even became the general manager.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

What's the story with XWT?


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

It's being a right prick today! Got on there but as soon as I went to download a Samoa Joe pack it crashed on me. Talk about pain in the ass.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

:yes @ The Beast Incarnate for putting Henry vs JoMo on the list. That has to be one of the most underrated matches in 2011. What a fun match that was.

Enjoying the list so far man. Good stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Tajiri almost defeating Triple H that one night was fantastic. Tajiri guys, Tajiri.
> 
> Yeah, Orton & Benoit were excellent that year. Orton's career year & Benoit adding more great wrestling to his resume.


Ok you were right, the Eddie vs jbl judgement day 2004 bout was a sloppy, disgusting, epic, glorious, masterpiece. Oh my god watching that match it gave me the feeling you get when you're at the top of a roller coaster, about to go down the big drop. The crowd was so into it, and Eddie just would not stop. That first kickout he has after the sledgehammer chair shot and the guillotine clothesline from hell just sends the crowd into a frenzy. Eddie just keeps taking punishment and kicking out. When he finally gets up for the frog splash at the end, it's as powerful a moment as you will see in wrestling. And man when he starts dancing around covered in blood while jbl is hitting him with lefts, now THAT is a moment too. If eddie had won clean with the frog splash i would say its moy quality, the screw finish keeps it from getting the full 5 stars. I put this in the same category as the foley taker hiac match as far as the emotional ride it takes you on. I give it 4 and 1/2 stars. I can't thank you enough for convincing me to rewatch this match, as a huge Guerrero fan it would have been a shame if I never saw it all the way through.

The screw finish did hurt this match a bit, but not as much as the Batista taker one because that's a freaking last man standing match, one man is supposed to be left standing. Obviously this is just my opinion, I know screw finishes don't bother some people as much as they bother me in cases.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Going on a random Bret Hart kick...

*Bret Hart vs. "Macho Man" Randy Savage - Saturday Night's Main Event 11/28/87: ***1/4*

The match starts off with Savage attacking Hart on the outside, thinking that he and The Hart Foundation were going to attack Miss Elizabeth. Macho Man gets the early advantage but the momentum changes when Savage goes for a diving move to the outside and Hart grabs Jimmy Hart's megaphone and hits him in the ribs. Macho Man comes back momentarily until Bret does a back body drop on Savage to the outside, hurting Savage's ankle in the process. Elizabeth takes off Macho Man's boot off to alleviate the pain and Bret goes on to work on the ankle by twisting it, kicking it, and ramming it onto the steel ring post. Macho Man gets the unexpected pin with the small package and The Hart Foundation tries to attack him, but the Macho Man gets the better of them. Good match with good work on the ankle by Hart and great selling and babyface work by Savage.
*
Bret Hart vs. Yokozuna for the WWF Championship - 1/4/93: **1/2*

It's a battle between Yokozuna's size and power and Bret Hart's quickness. Bret uses his quickness at the start of the match but is quickly overpowered by Yokozuna. Yokozuna subdues the Hitman by throwing him across the ring, slamming him and using his large legs to execute a leg drop. Bret comes back when he dodges Yoko's running attack to the turnbuckle, bring the big man down. Bret tries to bring him down again by using a clothesline, but ultimately brings him down using his diving bulldog and diving elbow. Yokozuna kicks out powerfully and as Bret Hart was going for another diving move, Mr. Fuji interferes, disqualifying Yokozuna in the process. Just when it was starting to get good! Yoko attacks Bret after the match and attempts to do the Bonzai drop , but Bret dodges and gets Yoko out of the ring. Short but nice match between the two and it would've been really good if it got more time.

*Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund - WWF Raw 12/11/95: ***1/4*

Match starts out with the both of them exchanging holds but that changes when Bret gets the advantage by dropkicking Backlund to the outside. The momentum of the match changes with Backlund working on Bret's arm, doing it so he could effectively apply the Crossface Chickenwing. Backlund does some good arm work and Bret comes back later in the match. Bret seemed on the cusp of victory as he was applying the Sharpshooter, but The British Bulldog interferes thus ending the match. Again, just when the match was starting to pick up. The British Bulldog attacks Bret after the match since they have a title match at the In Your House pay-per-view later that week. Overall, good match despite the finish with some good arm work by Backlund, good storytelling, and funny commentating by Lawler.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Got a lot of Henry matches to catch up on. Thanks for the list, TBI, will be following along. I'm a constant lurker of this thread, but never really post. Gonna try to post more. 

Currently watching Vengeance '05, good show so far. Loved HBK/Angle. Looking forward to the triple threat and Tista/Trips HIAC.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Judgement day 2004*

-Wow, just wow that's all I can say right now. I'm honestly sitting here right now in amazement of what I just watched. I watched the promo package of the feud before it to get a better grasp of it and boy did it help. This is the rare time for me that everything stopped around me and I was entirely focused on the match. I blocked out my phone, the tv etc, I only do that when I am 100% involved in the match. I personally just sat there and watched with sheer enjoyment and it felt like time just flew by. Only the hbk/taker of the world and Bret/scsa have done so for me.Everything that I enjoy in pro-wrestling occurred in this match, just a brutal brutal sluggfest.Ive never seen that much blood in the wwe in my life, I was even taken back, Geez. That chair shot was brutal as well by JBL. Eddie just plays the underdog baby face PERFECTLY and JBL the asshole heel.These are the type of matches that reassure me why I love pro-wrestling. 

TBH idk what to give this but I'm thinking ***** that good


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

Just rewatched Undertaker vs Triple H Wrestlemania 27.

I loved the entrances. Undertaker should use Johnny Cash's _Ain't No Grave_ permanently. It fits. Hearing that music while he walked down the ramp, with the camera cutting to Triple H, got me pumped.

J.R.'s line "Someday the streak will end. The only question is when..." is interesting. Everyone always says the streak will never end, and to feed J.R. that line says something ... 

The first Tombstone near-fall was poorly done. Undertaker got it too easy. You knew Triple H was kicking out.

It got a little too caught up in near-falls. Triple H hit two pedigrees consecutively -- Undertaker kicked out twice.

It was funny when Triple H screamed, "Stay Down!" .., The fan said, "Shut up!"

Triple's H's Tombstone spot got me. Undertaker looked like Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold in their last matches ... down, but still trying to fight back. J.R. and King even had their silent voices. I am ashamed to say that WWE got me. I thought it was over. Well done.

The ending was cool. The way Triple H dropped the sledgehammer seemed symbolic of a retirement, but that didn't happen.

Post-match was cool. We never saw Undertaker like this at the end of a match, even when he loses. You could also sense there would be a rematch. When Undertaker fell off the apron, Triple H tried to help him up but the referee blocked him.

Overall, a very good match. Dramatic, suspenseful, emotional ... also the last one that has Undertaker with hair. :

Grade = A


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

Well, just watched Triple H vs Undertaker Wrestlemania 28. It's definitely not as good as that one ^.

No more Johnny Cash :sad:. No more hair on Mr. Undertaker. :sad:

The Hell in a Cell felt totally unnecessary. It was a cheap ploy they used to hype the match. So Undertaker and Triple H have been in 19 of the 24 Hell in a Cell matches ... well whoopey-de-do! :clap [Not!]

It didn't add to the match. They could have done this entire match with a regular street-fight stipulation.

The match went way too long. It was nearly an hour, if you include entrances and post-match interactions. That's about 20-30 minutes too long.

I hate to say it since I like the man so much -- but Shawn Michaels was unnecessary too. He didn't enhance the match at all. What he did was make the atmosphere congested. 

See Wrestlemania 27 was just Triple H and Undertaker, one on one, no bullcrap, and that worked. The atmosphere was streamlined. You knew what you were getting. And it was great. That's what you want. Less is more.

This match also went too far with near-falls. I lost track of how many finishers both guys kicked out of. Undertaker kicked out of 2-3 sledgehammer shots, which is way too much. You have to put a limit on this now. When a guy kicks out of sledgehammer shots, then it just becomes silly. fpalm

Also, stop saying "Stay Down!" Undertaker said that Shawn Michaels at 26. Triple H said that to Undertaker at 27. And Undertaker says it to Triple H at 28.

Stop saying it! Enough!

And what's even worse is that the other guy never stays down. Just keep beating the guy until he can't get up. Case closed.:avit:

At no point in this match did I feel Undertaker was in danger, like I did at Wrestlemania 27 when Triple H did the Tombstone. But, maybe I'm setting the bar too high if I require this every time.

This match was a far cry from the prior year's one. It's a shame that Undertaker's 20th victory wasn't a good one.

Grade = D-


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Ok you were right, the Eddie vs jbl judgement day 2004 bout was a sloppy, disgusting, epic, glorious, masterpiece. Oh my god watching that match it gave me the feeling you get when you're at the top of a roller coaster, about to go down the big drop. The crowd was so into it, and Eddie just would not stop. That first kickout he has after the sledgehammer chair shot and the guillotine clothesline from hell just sends the crowd into a frenzy. Eddie just keeps taking punishment and kicking out. When he finally gets up for the frog splash at the end, it's as powerful a moment as you will see in wrestling. And man when he starts dancing around covered in blood while jbl is hitting him with lefts, now THAT is a moment too. If eddie had won clean with the frog splash i would say its moy quality, the screw finish keeps it from getting the full 5 stars. I put this in the same category as the foley taker hiac match as far as the emotional ride it takes you on. I give it 4 and 1/2 stars. I can't thank you enough for convincing me to rewatch this match, as a huge Guerrero fan it would have been a shame if I never saw it all the way through.
> 
> The screw finish did hurt this match a bit, but not as much as the Batista taker one because that's a freaking last man standing match, one man is supposed to be left standing. Obviously this is just my opinion, I know screw finishes don't bother some people as much as they bother me in cases.





redskins25 said:


> *Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Judgement day 2004*
> 
> -Wow, just wow that's all I can say right now. I'm honestly sitting here right now in amazement of what I just watched. I watched the promo package of the feud before it to get a better grasp of it and boy did it help. This is the rarely time for my that everything stopped around me and I was entirely focused on the match. I blocked out my phone, the tv etc, I only do tha when I have 100% involved in the match. I personally just sat there and watched with sheer enjoyment and it felt like time just flew by. Only the hbk/taker of the whole and Bret/scsa have no so for me.Everything that I enjoy in pro-wrestling occurred in this match, just a brutal brutal sluggfest.Ive never seen that much blood in the wwe in my life, I was even taken back, Geez. That chair shot was brutal as well by JBL. Eddie just plays the underdog baby face PERFECTLY and JBL the asshole heel.These are the type of matches that reassure me why I love pro-wrestling.
> 
> TBH idk what to give this but I'm thinking ***** that good


(Y)

Fantastic reads guys. Glad to see you both hop on board and dig the match. It's truly one of my favorites on the whole of rasslin. Eddie & JBL were brilliant in their roles, LA was molten for the program, & everything clicked. God I loved JBL's promos during the night - pre match one is hilarious. He's such an asshole. This is a classic match. Infamous for the blood, sustained glory for the work put forth.

About to hop on board of a Drew McIntyre PPV kick. Going in chronological order too. First up, demolishing R-Truth at Hell in a Cell 2009. Hell yes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Eddie/JBL is easily WWE 2004 MOTY for me. #2 is Eddie/Show which I adore, but doesn't even come within the same galaxy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Edited my review on it so the read is a bit smoother for the readers, but yea Great Great match, I rarely reach that level of enjoyment in a viewing of a match

TBH or TBhayley :lol I hate to overhype things but it deserves all the credit (eddie/JBL) it gets, incredible match definitely in my top 10 in wwe history

Edit: That eddie/show match is also very good as well, eddie 04 was on fucking point was he, loved his underdog babyface character


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

While RAW did dominate in 2004, Eddie vs JBL reigns a top the list for WWE MOTY. Blows all the rest away, tbhayley.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Okay, as I mentioned in the old thread, I decided to take one match from every Summerslam event. For this, almost every match was a first time viewing, or in some cases I hadn't seen the match since seeing it live. There are plenty of obvious matches that I didn't choose mainly because I had already seen them, and wanted to see something new. Maybe I'll do a full Summerslam event later on. Also, there is a bit of commentary at the bottom, and this list is in chronological order.

1988 - Hart Foundation/Demolition *****
1989 - Ultimate Warrior/Rick Rude ****1/2*
1990 - Ultimate Warrior/Rick Rude ***1/2*
1991 - Bret Hart/Mr. Perfect *****1/4*
1992 - Bret Hart/Davey Boy Smith *****1/2*
1993 - Shawn Michaels/Mr. Perfect ****3/4*
1994 - Bret Hart/Owen Hart *****1/2*
1995 - Shawn Michaels/Razor Ramon *****1/4*
1996 - Shawn Michaels/Vader ******
1997 - Bret Hart/Undertaker ****1/2*
1998 - Stone Cold/Undertaker *****
1999 - Test/Shane McMahon ****1/2*
2000 - TLC *****1/4*
2001 - X-Pac/Tajiri ****1/2*
2002 - Kurt Angle/Rey Mysterio ****3/4*
2003 - Kurt Angle/Brock Lesnar *****1/4*
2004 - Randy Orton/Chris Benoit *****1/4*
2005 - Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero *****
2006 - Ric Flair/Mick Foley ******
2007 - Triple H/King Booker *****
2008 - Edge/Undertaker *****1/4*
2009 - DX/Legacy ******
2010 - Team WWE/Team Nexus ****3/4*
2011 - Randy Orton/Christian *****1/2*
2012 - Chris Jericho/Dolph Ziggler ****3/4*



Spoiler: Commentary



I enjoyed Bret in the Harts/Demolition match, but there wasn't much to the match itself. Silly ending, also. 

I hate Ultimate Warrior. Like, just hate him. The no-selling is so off the charts, it's ridiculous. Rick Rude is awesome, and I can see where a lot of people have taken stuff from him (maybe people before him too.) Cage match was difficult to sit through.

I feel like Shawn/Razor, while really good, could have been even better if they had gone apeshit with the ladder, like WM. Shawn's knee selling is tremendous, and Razor handing him the title after the match was cool.

Shawn/Vader was kind of fun. Jim Cornette makes me miss the real managers that were great talkers and GOATs at ringside, the way Heyman is now, and what Flair was for Evolution. Shawn's tantrum when Vader forgets to move before the elbow drop is :lol

Just couldn't get into Bret/Taker or Austin/Taker at all. That's it.

Test/Shane is a fun street fight, and the Mean Street Posse were easy to hate. Test puts on a pretty good babyface performance. 

TLC at Summerslam 2000 is loads of fun. The Hardys were the hometown favorites and the crowd was super behind them, so I was disappointed for them (honestly had forgotten who won this). These three teams were just magical together in those matches.

Team WWE/Nexus is one I really have a gripe with. That could have been a ****+ match if Cena hadn't been booked to come back and make them look like geeks. I mean, he's not in the first like, 20 minutes of the match, he gets his ass kicked, then pins Gabriel after a failed 450 splash, then gets Barrett in the STF (applied so horribly) and it's over. This match should have ended like Survivor Series 2003 and 2005, both with Shawn Michaels doing everything he could to win for his team, but coming up just short. It would have made sense too, because Nexus didn't go away. They made Cena join them and everything. And Cole burying Bryan more than a heel commentator should was embarrassing.



I didn't talk about every match, but if you want reasoning for anything I didn't cover, just ask.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So... after re-watching Ziggler/Del Rio PB, I got to thinking about matches with double turns (both guys turning in the same match), and I wondered how many have there been? Obviously Ziggler/Del Rio Payback, and the other obvious one is Austin/Bret WM13. The only other one I thought of was Rock/Mankind SVS 1998, but I can't remember if Mankind was actually a heel that used heel tactics in his matches at that time, or if he was a face being used by the heel Vince. If the latter, it wouldn't count obviously. 

And that's all I got.

And on Eddie/JBL JD 04, that's a classic and my MOTY 2004.

And here's my stars for those matches iwatchwrestling (the ones I know/remember):

1997 - Bret Hart/Undertaker ****
1998 - Stone Cold/Undertaker ***1/2
2002 - Kurt Angle/Rey Mysterio ***3/4
2003 - Kurt Angle/Brock Lesnar ****1/4
2004 - Randy Orton/Chris Benoit ****
2005 - Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero ***1/2
2007 - Triple H/King Booker **
2008 - Edge/Undertaker ****1/2
2009 - DX/Legacy ***1/2
2010 - Team WWE/Team Nexus ***3/4
2011 - Randy Orton/Christian ****
2012 - Chris Jericho/Dolph Ziggler ***1/2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Eddie wasn't even the best wrestler of '04. That nod goes to Benoit. Though I guess EG is either second or third.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie didn't get the quality of opponents Benoit did. Eddie still having tremendous matches despite being on Smackdown in 2004 speaks volumes all the same.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Judgment Day 2004 ME :eddie


----------



## The 12th Man (Jul 12, 2013)

The best North American in-ring worker of 2004 was Samoa Joe.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's all compatible. Joe did dominate with his final year as ROH World Champion. The matches vs Punk & the final vs Aries always put him at a higher level than most workers on the year. The obvious people who had a tremendous year stand out on the whole of 2004.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I just noticed that this was a new thread


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's going to be millions of dollars of a new thread.


----------



## DenGal (Feb 10, 2009)

04 was horrible they tried to take Orton and Benoit and just make them Cena over night and when things didnt work out the belts were stripped off fast.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

You forgot the hashtag 

#KnowYourWorth


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgive my flub on social media. PTPs for the win, all the same.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I want to do a PTP project. That would be boatloads of fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did you see their first matches as a team vs Alex Riley & Percy Watson on NXT in early 2012? They had good chemistry as a team from the very start. The Paul Heyman mantra worked. Good opponents; good partners.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The only NXT stuff I've seen from the two was when they faced each other, never as a team. I should really check it out considering how big of a mark I am of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah do so. It's fun stuff. Better than the normal run of the mill tags they were forced to have vs the Usos x100.

Always cracked me _(in a good way; ironic)_ up how Titus became instantly worth seeing the moment he turned heel. Up to debate for those if they liked him once he was pushed on NXT redemption, but for me it was the heel turn on that I started to notice the guy had something appealing about him.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Yeah TITUS was not a good babyface at all really. He just seemed like a natural heel during NXT. I can't believe he was paired up with Hornswoggle of all people, that's not a great way to start your career. Luckily he recovered from that, found his niche, and now is arguably the most naturally charismatic guy in WWE. Now I can see him as a good babyface too. PTP seem like they could go either way. Maybe once the Shield's feud with the Usos is over, PTP can turn face and challenge for the belts instead.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hornswoggle pairing was the get him over with fans. And it actually worked. They latched onto the bark and he was cooking even though I wasn't really big on him at the time. I liked Darren more during that period. Once Titus turned heel he continued to show more and more personality to the point where I actually prefer him over Darren these days. Titus is even looking good in the ring too. It's great to see. He's an ideal candidate for a midcard prospect if he's forced to be stuck in that position. I can see a face run in the cards thanks to their personality leaping off the page. Either way I wouldn't mind as long as they got a better rub from the company. Sure as heck worth the time much more than the ever dreadful Usos. Biding time is the case...I hope.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Darren at first always seemed like he was in the shadow of his partner, but he has really stepped it up lately as well. His showing against CM Punk a few weeks back was a good match and better than the one Punk had against Jericho the night before. Titus has actually only been wrestling for 4 years and has improved leaps and bounds since last year. Even with his age (36), he seems like he's dedicated to improve and make a name for himself which is nice to see. I'm actually quite appalled that WWE has not pushed the PTP at all since last year considering they are now apparently trying to appeal to the Black demographic. These guys are perfect fits to be the future of the tag division once The Shield disbands.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is he really 36? Sheesh, didn't know he was up there in age like how Titus was.

Once he found his niche post-Nexus I've always looked at him as a pretty good talent. Regal got him to some really good little matches on Superstars in 2010 and going on NXT only gave him a bit more to work and grow on. I think they both have potential as a team. It may not be "mega" level, yet success is success. Who really cares to split hairs. If that means they'll be a rare success as a tag team then that's plenty positive. As far as the appealing to the black demographic goes, lads like PTP or Henry are certainly worth the time over someone who has flopped and lost his chance in Kofi Kingston. That's the name that makes me shutter that they'd go to with this "rumor" or plan out in the air. I say try someone new. Although, that someone new will probably be Big E. Langston if I'm really going to pick a worker. I get the vibe that the company wants to push him. Not looking forward to it. Only what I feel could be the case.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

JBL has it down pat when he says Titus has the potential to be a future World Champion. Honestly Titus looks like he's the most genuinely genetic beast in the WWE right now. His physique is impressive. But it's not just his body. He has natural charisma that is rare by today's standards. His aura and presence in the ring is unmatched by anyone on the roster right now. The way he engages the crowd with even the slightest of mannerisms is delightful to see. Darren on the other hand obviously doesn't possess the same physique as Titus, but he's better in the ring and can hold his own on the mic too. If he adapts a style that can connect with the crowd more, he can definitely be a great upper-midcard babyface ala Christian. He's only 29 so he still has plenty of time to grow and develop. Hell, Mark Henry didn't win his first (and only) World Title until he was 40. Once that metaphoric lightbulb goes off, aka when creative wakes up, Titus and Darren will be something special.

Agreed on Kofi. I'm one of the few that seems to genuinely like him, but that's purely for his ringwork which I think is really solid. The guy desperately needs a character change. He's been the same, happy go-lucky midcard babyface for 5 years now. He needs a kick in the ass. Turn him heel and pair him up with Prince Nana as his manager. It's a match made in heaven.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's weird. It feels like the WWE realizes Titus's (and Darren's) worth, yet enjoys them being over midcarders. Almost to the point of where that success in getting a reaction and having their fans was their ceiling for not giving them a chance to try and do more. I'm not saying push them up the card in swift fashion or anything like that, yet trying something new wouldn't hurt. Start with a tag reign and go from there. Titus & Darren are certainly not the risk like how a few others they seem intent on using could be. Idk, I don't think it is such a bad plan to utilize them in a slightly stronger position.

I'm not so sure Kofi can play a decent heel. His babyface manner seems to be who he is. Of course I haven't had a sign of what he's capable of in the heels ranks, but I'm really so soured on the guy that I couldn't care less, personally. If he's done with the company as far as credibility goes, I'll be happy. The Nana pairing is a pipe dream. He recently showed back up with ROH and I don't think he's planning on going anywhere or WWE is interested. For me, Kofi is a lost cause.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Sometimes it's just hard to really even hypothesize what WWE creative is thinking. Here's two guys that seemingly the higher ups like, yet here they are still toiling away in the lower midcard. It boggles my mind why and how they have accomplished nothing from a kayfabe standpoint since their WWE. If WWE wasn't high on them, they wouldn't be featured so much on their app, website, Youtube shows, commercials, etc. What are they waiting for?

I blame their (lack of) push on The Shield. They're honestly hogging the belts right now. If all they were going to do after taking out guys like Cena, Ryback, Sheamus, Rock, Taker, etc is to win the midcard belts, what was the point of doing all that in the first place? You could have instead built them up slowly, but they jumped the gun and now they're directionless too. If Shield didn't have the belts right now, Usos would probably be the champions right now with the PTP challenging, or vice versa. 

Surely pushing the PTP would have been a much better and safer bet than Curtis Axel who still comes out to crickets even though he is being managed by one of the best heels of all time. 

WWE really messed up in 2009 during his feud with Orton. Orton was the top heel in the company at the time and Kofi was redhot, getting huge reactions every night. All of a sudden, the push is halted for no apparent reason as he was handed defeat after defeat by Orton until he was back to square one. I do however think he can be rebuilt during this hiatus he's on. Let him stay away from TV for a couple of more months. Then just have him come back as a heel who turned his back on the fans because they stopped supporting him. It's your cliche, heel return 101, but it's better than nothing and certainly better than what he was doing pre-injury.

That's unfortunate about Nana. I was really looking forward to his debut with the company.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love booking Titus and Darren in EWR. Had them go over Sheamus/Finlay in a tag feud and it made them legit.

Even though they generally lose, WWE is keeping them on TV enough to make me believe they have some kind of plan for them in the future.

Edit: Totally agree on the Shield part. Having heel champs makes it tough to give them leverage. Plus I really like Swagger/Cesaro teaming too and they're even further back, I'd say.


----------



## JLawls91 (Dec 5, 2012)

From the start of the Attitude Era I've made it towards the end of 2002 of WWE. Currently onto the Katie Vick storyline :lmao Was it ever revealed whose idea it was? 

The bit I found most disturbing was Kane driving a girl home from a party :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was Vinny Mac's. Apparently to "give the Kane character more depth".

Am I the only one that feels that the WWE could have a PPV filled with only TV matches this year and it'd still be better than 100% of all PPV's this year so far?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd have to agree, with the exception of Ziggler vs del rio and punk vs Jericho at payback, Brock vs trips at er, punk vs taker at wm29, maybe one other, no ppv match has gotten 4 stars in my opinion. The tv matches have been consistently better since about February


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

God damn it, the Brock Lesnar Vs Tripe H series is fucking awesome and I don't care who disputes it otherwise. It shouldn't have went past the first match, but in the end we received two awesome bouts so I don't really care. Just finished watching the cage match and GOD DAMN Brock's seling is just so on point in these wars ....

"THAT'S MY MANAGER" :brock


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I laughed so hard went Bork said that :lmao Dammit, he's awesome. Up there with the likes of Finlay, Lawler, Funk, Hansen, Roberts, Savage, Flair, Foley and HHH as one of the best in-ring psychologists I've ever seen.

Edit: 






:lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Better match to match worker than anybody else in the company right now I'm sure of it. Perhaps the most naturally gifted wrestler I've ever seen perform in my entire life with the rare combination of natural charisma mixed with impeccable control over what he's doing performance wise in the selling & control segment department. Bryan, Brock, & Taker would be the three guys I would lean on if I needed somebody to crank out a classic match on the spot, MAYBE Rollins is up there as well but I need to see more of him, and MAYBE Cesaro as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

At this point I'd even say that Lesnar could carry The Rock into something watchable if indeed they meet at WM 30. Boy, that card, from today's standpoint, is kinda impossible to fuck up given the shitload of talent they have. But then again, I could've said that about the WM 29 card too.

:vince5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar since returning = 2 awesome matches, 1 sucky shite match and 1 match I can't sit all the way through. Not that great tbh .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ATF said:


> At this point I'd even say that Lesnar could carry The Rock into something watchable if indeed they meet at WM 30.












Now hold on a minute there playa......

I'd honestly rather see Brock Vs Floyd Mayweather @ XXX over Brock Vs Rock at this point. Mainly because Brock Vs Floyd would probably fucking rule if Floyd was willing to take the bumps he did in the Wrestlemania XXIV match against the Big Show. That's my main problem with Brock Vs Rock & Brock Vs Orton; would they (mainly Orton) switch up their traditional styles and take a beating from Brock, or would they try to keep it more in the light of a traditional WWE style match?

This whole McMahon storyline looks like it could be leading to a Triple H Vs ??? main event for XXX, maybe the opponent is a Daniel Bryan or maybe it's a Rock or something like that, but it's looking likely at this point.

In terms of what BROCK does at XXX, I think a match with Taker could be fucking HUGE and a bout that we remember for a really long time. You could have Brock come in and manhandle the shit out of Taker and really sell the match on the idea that Brock can kill him at any time. Sure, a Cena match would be more unpredictable, but I think that a Brock-Taker bout at XXX would be the better match in terms of holding up in the future, kind of how XXVI >>> XXV even though XXV was the more unpredictable of the two.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sine we're on the usual topic of Brock, Brock's best match?

For me, it's definitely with Cena at ER 2012.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's definitely Vs Cena.

I've said it over and over and over again, but the only match I'd put over Brock Vs Cena at this point in WWE history would be the original HIAC w/ Shawn & Taker.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Sine we're on the usual topic of Brock, Brock's best match?
> 
> For me, it's definitely with Cena at ER 2012.




Lesnars 4 matches: 

Vs Cena ER 12: ****1/4
Vs HHH SS: ***1/2
Vs HHH WM: **1/2
Vs HHH ER: ****

I expect him to work a great match with punk as well. After that id really like to see him work with Orton or Sheamus. Although that's probably highly unlikely. Id definitely be down to see Lesnar/Cena again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As long as Brock gets something good AND fresh at Mania 30 I'll do with. Brock/Bryan for e.g. would be an awesome way to officialize D-Bry as a Main Eventer, and the aforementioned Brock/Randall would be good for atmosphere alone.

Btw, here's a card from TV stuff alone from this year that trumps all PPV's of 2013:

Pre-show:
Tensai vs Titus O'Neil, ME 1/30

Triple Threat match for the IC Title:
Wade Barrett vs Chris Jericho vs The Miz, Raw 3/18

NXT Women's Title:
Paige vs Emma, NXT 7/24

Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler, ME 1/9

Last Man Standing match for the WHC Title:
The Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio, SD 1/11

WWE Tag Team Titles:
The Shield vs Team Hell No, Raw 5/27

Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn, NXT 6/12

The Undertaker vs Dean Ambrose, SD 4/26

TLC match for the WWE Title:
CM Punk vs Ryback, Raw 1/7

And I don't even have Cena, Orton, RVD, Christian, Fandango, Henry, etc. out here.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

THAT'S WHAT HE DOES: The Top 43 Mark Henry Bouts Ever


Yeah, so I posted the first piece of this list yesterday and it looked like complete shit, so I’m just going to go ahead and post the whole damn thing here in a spoiler because that’s how I’m rollin’ with these things nowadays. I know a few people love the whole “picture-countdown” format, but this is the underground Mark Henry stuff we’re talking about here, and it deserves a more under the radar Mark Henry esque presentation. Here we’re talking about a man who since being canned and relegated to OVW for training in 2000 with a subsequent return in 2002/2003 has been a top notch worker who has only really gotten noticed when he finally received a big time singles push for a major title in 2011 to present, where he’s acknowledged as one of the best monster heels the company has ever seen. 










(SOMEDAY. WE CAN DREAM)

My question is simple; why doesn’t anybody see just how good Henry was from 2002 – 2010 at times, especially in 2006 where I’d place him just below the Rey Mysterios of the world in terms of character work? Do we place a ton of bearing on how we rank in ring workers based on their success kayfabe wise, or are we more willing to overlook what a good worker is comprised of (character work, storytelling) for individuals who have a more mat based gimmick? Who knows, but at this moment I’d like to unveil a list that means a lot to me, because it’s paying tribute to a man who doesn’t often get BEST OF lists for his work (I Google searched “Top Mark Henry Matches” to find essentially nothing but a few small articles stating that he hasn’t been very good during his tenure) but needs to be recognized as a man who quietly put together a fantastic worker resume while the rest of the wrestling world looked him over until he exploded into the main event scene. Will I argue that his work in 2011 to the present is on a whole different level? No, I’m not going into that argument because I’ll probably lose, but I hold the opinion that Henry in 2003, 2006, etc happened to be one of the best damn in-ring storytellers in the entire company. His versatility is quite unheard of for a big man as he could hang with some of the greatest ever in Daniel Bryan & Rey Mysterio and play the monster heel while fucking shit up, while at the same time he could go out there with a Big Show or a Sheamus & deliver a fast paced knockout fight that tells a brilliant story.










(DID YOU KNOW; Henry carried Michaels here FYI)

Mark’s niche obviously came as being a monster heel and there’s no doubt for that, but as you can see from the list and the likes of the Tajiri/Primo/Jericho/etc matches, he was certainly no slouch in the face department as well, which is key in his company longevity. I suppose a big reason as to why Henry is underappreciated would be his lack of great PPV contests leading up to 2011 (He had two shows where his match went on last, both matches being colossal failures in terms of work), with many people not being able to appreciate his work on a grander scale, but who knows. So without further ado, here are the forty three singles matches in the career of Mark Henry (he’s 42 years old but I didn’t wanna leave out a match so yeah..) that I think are the cream of the crop for him on a resume that speaks for itself really;



Spoiler: The Top 43 Mark Henry Matches Ever



1. Mark Henry Vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 11/29/11)

2. Mark Henry Vs CM Punk (RAW 4/2/12)

3. Mark Henry Vs CM Punk (RAW 4/16/12)

4. Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (SD 1/16/06)

5. Mark Henry Vs Matt Hardy (ECW 8/19/08)

6. Mark Henry Vs Big Show (Vengeance 11)

7. Mark Henry Vs Randy Orton (Night of Champions 11)

8. Mark Henry Vs Tajiri (Smackdown 9/5/2002)

9. Mark Henry Vs Matt Hardy (Innsbruck Austria House Show 2008)

10. Mark Henry Vs John Cena (Money in the Bank 2013)

11. Mark Henry Vs Matt Hardy (No Mercy 2008)

12. Mark Henry Vs Goldberg (RAW 10/27/2003)

13. Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 5/5/2006)

14. Mark Henry Vs Sheamus (Summerslam 2011)

15. Mark Henry Vs Shawn Michaels (RAW 11/3/2003)

16. Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 6/23/2006)

17. Mark Henry Vs Kurt Angle (Judgment Day 2006)

18. Mark Henry Vs Christian (Smackdown 9/23/2011)

19. Mark Henry Vs Finlay (Armageddon 2008)

20. Mark Henry Vs The Miz (RAW 12/7/2009)

21. Mark Henry Vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 2/10/2007)

22. Mark Henry Vs Sheamus (Smackdown 8/26/2011)

23. Mark Henry vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown 5/26/2006)

24. Mark Henry Vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 11/11/11)

25. Mark Henry Vs Finlay (ECW 9/16/2008)

26. Mark Henry Vs Chris Masters (Superstars 10/15/2011)

27. Mark Henry Vs Bobby Lashley (Smackdown 4/28/2006)

28. Mark Henry Vs Finlay (ECW 11/4/2008)

29. Mark Henry Vs Christian (Superstars 5/14/2009)

30. Mark Henry Vs Chris Jericho (RAW 7/20/2009)

31. Mark Henry Vs Christian (Smackdown 6/3/11) 

32. Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (RAW 4/29/2011) 

33. Mark Henry Vs Jerry Lawler (IYH Mind Games 1996) 

34. Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne (ECW 6/16/2009) 

35. Mark Henry Vs John Morrison (RAW 10/3/2011) 

36. Mark Henry Vs Primo (Superstars 6/2/2010) 

37. Mark Henry Vs The Big Show (Smackdown 2/21/2012)

38. Mark Henry Vs John Morrison (RAW 10/17/2011) 

39. Mark Henry vs Daniel Bryan (Smackdown 1/20/2012)

40. Mark Henry Vs Triple H (RAW 6/23/2008) 

41. Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 1/27/2006) 

42. Mark Henry Vs The Big Show (Money in the Bank 2011) 

43. Mark Henry Vs Randy Orton (Hell in a Cell 2011)



So there you have it; some of the choices may leave you scratching your head while other matches while serve to you as a reminder of just who the hell Marcus Jerrold Henry is. You see a ton of great workers on there like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Rey Mysterio, Christian, Finlay, etc, and then you get to guys like Miz, 2011 Randy Orton, Bobby Lashley, & Primo and you say `God Damn, Henry was on top of his game at some points!". I hope that looking at that list inspires people to go out and enjoy some more Henry greatness, but most of all I just want individuals to look at Henry and say "This fucker went under the radar for so long, HOW?!?!". 










(Thank You Mark)

OH, & ONE LAST THING.

:henry1:henry1:henry1 THAT'S WHAT I DOOOOOOOOOOOOO! :henry1:henry1:henry1
​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I laughed so hard went Bork said that :lmao Dammit, he's awesome. Up there with the likes of Finlay, Lawler, Funk, Hansen, Roberts, Savage, Flair, Foley and HHH as one of the best in-ring psychologists I've ever seen.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


Foley is the GOAT in ring psychologist. Always has been always will be. Ok im done praising the greatness of Foley in this thread for a while, I promise.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> It's definitely Vs Cena.
> 
> I've said it over and over and over again, but the only match I'd put over Brock Vs Cena at this point in WWE history would be the original HIAC w/ Shawn & Taker.


Wow, that's a HUGE statement. I need to rewatch that match, I remember liking it the first time I saw it but I don't remember it being GOAT level stuff. I remember thinking at the time that I even liked Brock vs Taker HIAC better than the Cena match. Definitely worth rewatching if you believe it's that great.

My fave Brock matches:
Vs Taker HIAC
Vs Eddie Guerrero No Way Out 2004
Vs Kurt Angle at Summerslam
Vs the Rock at Summerslam

I need to watch some Smackdown from 2003, Brock fucking owned that year as much as any superstar has ever owned a year in the history of WWE match quality wise. Orton/Eddie in 2004 were the kings in my book.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It is a huge statement to make but I believe it deep down 100 percent, so why not make it? If we were talking stars here, it would be one of the two matches alongside HBK-Taker that could venture beyond the five star territory, it's just a breathtaking experience. It's more than a match really, it would be the most hostile and intense viewing experience I've ever had in my many years of watching this shit, so there you go, opinions can be insane sometimes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar's GOAT match for me is the HIAC with Undertaker still, then the Cena match a very, very close second. Would still have a handful of WWF/E matches above them though.

When it comes to HENRY, I honestly wouldn't put the NOC Orton match anywhere near his top 10. I genuinely didn't think it was that good at all when I last saw it. I was disappointed as fuck. Not re-watched their HIAC match yet, got the Bluray for the entire event and I've yet to take off the wrapping .


----------



## BeautifulDisaster (Aug 2, 2013)

lol @ Cena marks saying Brock vs Cena was Brock's best match ever. It might have been Cena's best match ever, but it doesn't touch Brock's best. Brock vs Benoit, Brock vs Angle, Brock vs Eddie, Brock vs Taker, etc were all better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Cell match with Brock & Taker would quite easily be a top 25 WWF/WWE match for me, probably Top 20 to be completely honest, what a fucking war. Came in at number two on my definitive Lesnar list and with good reason; it fucking owns and it owns hard. The Benoit match would round out the top three as it's fucking awesome as well .

The Henry/Orton NOC bout is a thing of beauty, as Henry's performance really seals the thing for me. In his erformance I really felt his newfound confidence, that he wasn't going to be denied his opportunity no matter what. Orton looked helpless against Henry and I think that's what they were going for, brilliant.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shit, Brock Vs Angle SS. How did I forget about that? THAT is Brock's best match, and then HIAC with Undertaker, and then ER with Cena.

Some people mentioned the greatest in ring psychologists... Undertaker is right up there for me. Especially with his work in the last decade. Guy is immense. Jake Roberts taught him a lot, and Jake was the #1 guy for a long time, but I'd say 'Taker has surpassed him now. HHH's name imo shouldn't even be mentioned in such a conversation.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I still like Cena/Umaga RR 07 more then Lesnar/Cena. Just rewatched both. To me, cena looked more stronger in the match, but still made Umaga look like a beast. 

****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If his 2000 work alone ain't any indication, Idk. Imo he is.

Anyway, not sure about what to expect about tonight's Raw. Hopefully they go with the whole 'corporation makeover' thingy without botching it all (which would be in e.g. shaving D-Bry's beard).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I knew I should have waited until this morning to post this. Got buried. Anyways, check it.



iwatchwrestling said:


> Okay, as I mentioned in the old thread, I decided to take one match from every Summerslam event. For this, almost every match was a first time viewing, or in some cases I hadn't seen the match since seeing it live. There are plenty of obvious matches that I didn't choose mainly because I had already seen them, and wanted to see something new. Maybe I'll do a full Summerslam event later on. Also, there is a bit of commentary at the bottom, and this list is in chronological order.
> 
> 1988 - Hart Foundation/Demolition *****
> 1989 - Ultimate Warrior/Rick Rude ****1/2*
> ...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Shit, Brock Vs Angle SS. How did I forget about that? THAT is Brock's best match, and then HIAC with Undertaker, and then ER with Cena.


Dammit, you're always forgetting the Lesnar match. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My mind isn't what it used to be. I forget many matches these days. I blame that thing. That uhhh... screws up your mind. You know. Stuff.


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

Brock's best match was the Iron-Man match against Kurt Angle on Smackdown. Perhaps the only Iron-Man match that I can stand watching.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Just got caught up with this thread and a few pages back there was talk of the PTP and NXT. This put me in mind of two matches that I consider to be forgotten gems, in Darren Young vs Matt Striker. Definitely feel like they're at least worth a watch. 

Here's the full show with their first match: http://www.wwe.com/videos/wwe-nxt-august-9-2011-25029462

And here's the part of the show that contains their second match:






Best I can do for links.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> My mind isn't what it used to be. I forget many matches these days. I blame that thing. That uhhh... screws up your mind. You know. Stuff.


I listed that Summerslam match as my second favorite behind hiac with taker on my favorite Brock match list, but it really is 1b and the cell is 1a, I love them both equally they are definitely his 2 best matches, at least until I rewatch his match with Cena and see what all the fuss is about  

You are right about taker being up there as far as ring psychology goes, he and mick foley are both 2 of the best of all time at telling stories, using moves that make sense, and getting reactions that they want from the crowd.

Brock is such a beast, he along with cena, orton, punk, trips and taker(when available) are really the only certified marquee guys left in the wwe. With the push Bryan is getting hopefully he gets to that level someday. Im not even sure that orton is a marquee guy anymore. It's such a stark contrast to wwe in 2003 when they were just filled to the brim with main event talent:

Stone Cold
the Rock
Triple H
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Eddie Guerrero
Shawn Michaels
Undertaker
Maybe Booker T
Maybe Chris Benoit ( for me he was certainly just don't know how the general public perceived him
Chris Jericho

I could go on. I mean goodness, if any of those guys were on the marquee you can guarantee the show was gonna do decent business. The only full timers today like that are Cena, orton, cm punk, and for the smart fans Daniel Bryan. That's a huge difference. I understand why trips and taker can't go full time anymore, I just wish Brock would appear on tv and wrestle every ppv. They need more big level guys. Sorry for the rant I've just been watching a ton of stuff from 04-08 and the difference is amazing. Maybe if Batista would come back for a while he could help things.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit was loved back in 2003. People were just waiting for the moment he would finally get his break and win the title. It was so long overdue. Shame they decided to treat him like enhancement talent after his reign was over again.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm not even sure I remember most of Brock's work. I know I'm the lone ranger in ranking Taker/Brock as low as I do, but nothing jumps to mind. Lesnar/Cena then the Lesnar/HHH cage match. I do remember loving Eddie/Lesnar and Angle/Lesnar (iron man) but I cannot remember enough to rank them. Severe thumb-sucking now, but Angle/Lesnar SS'03 wasn't bad but nothing blowaway and definitely under their WM19 match. Lesnar in that cage match with HHH is most certainly my favourite performance of Lesnar, though. DAT SELLING.

Cena has Cena/Punk '11, Cena/Punk '13, Cena/Henry, Cena/Lesnar, Cena/Umaga, Cena/HBK x2, Edge/Cena, Cena/Mysterio. And those are all randomly from memory.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Am I the only one who just doesn't care for any of Brock and Angle's matches? 

I saw someone mention that Cena's match with Brock is probably Cena's career best. I'm not so sure if I could really define a match as Cena's best. He's had so much great matches that it's just hard for me to rate one as the definitive Cena match. 

I know for sure I won't rank any Punk/Cena match as Cena's best. To me, Punk/Cena MITB '11 is probably Punk's best Match in the 'E' more than Cena, since it did more for Punk than it did Cena.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I wouldn't put any of the Punk/Cena matches as either man's top match. MITB is higher up on Cena's list than Punk's, but as for best, Cena's is RR 2007 with Umaga, and Punk's is Taker at Mania. Even if looking at individual performances, that Taker match may be Punk's best in that regard as well.

And I love most of the Brock/Angle matches, if not all of them. WM19 was awesome and a top quality main event, SS was even better and the Ironman topped their series with one of the best SD matches in history, and the best Ironman match as well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock/Angle from Summerslam & the Ironman are SEX. They're really fucking awesome matches that get me pumped every single time that I see them, specifically the Summerslam bout which is one of both men's greatest matches. Their match in Japan was fucking dogshit though, while their Mania XIX match is nothing great at all really and honestly one of the worst matches on the card behind the divas triple threat and the Taker handicap match which isn't even bad.

Punk/Cena is one of the greatest matches ever yet doesn't enter the same stratosphere as Brock/Cena does as far as I'm concerned, same goes with Punk/Taker and a whole bunch of matches from the last fifteen years. Hell, I'd have Brock/Cena over Austin/Bret, Owen/Bret, and every single match in Wrestlemania History for that matter.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock/Cena is so awesome. I might join in and put it as #1 in BROCK's (and obviously Cena) greatest matches list. After that, BORK has got the Taker cell match, Angle from SummerSlam, Eddie and Benoit to follow it. Along with the Ironman, those are the ELITE stuff of his.

From his HHH series, I can do with the cage match and the other two can disappear for all I care.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brock's best would definitely be the Taker match for me. Lesnar/Cena ER 2012 is at number 4 (with the Taker cell obviously, Lesnar Ironman and Eddie Guerrero NWO above it).

Oh, and I'd have several matches over Brock/Cena from the last 15 years. Some from the last few years would be Taker/Punk WM29, Punk/Cena MITB, Punk/Bryan OTL, and Shield/Hell No and Ryback TLC.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Except the ending to Punk V Cena wasn't stupid for long term business and wasn't totally unbelievable compared to Lesnar V John (Gets killed for 15 min straight then beats Lesnar in under 2 mins) Cena.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> I wouldn't put any of the Punk/Cena matches as either man's top match. MITB is higher up on Cena's list than Punk's, but as for best, Cena's is RR 2007 with Umaga, and Punk's is Taker at Mania. Even if looking at individual performances, that Taker match may be Punk's best in that regard as well.
> 
> And I love most of the Brock/Angle matches, if not all of them. WM19 was awesome and a top quality main event, SS was even better and the Ironman topped their series with one of the best SD matches in history, and the best Ironman match as well.


How could I forget Punk/Taker WM. That is definitely Punk's best in WWE. 

And it's not that I don't like the Brock/Angle series. I just don't care to re-live any of it. Call me crazy but I'd put Brock/Rock SS '02 over Brock/Angle SS '03.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Brock/Angle from Summerslam & the Ironman are SEX. They're really fucking awesome matches that get me pumped every single time that I see them, specifically the Summerslam bout which is one of both men's greatest matches. Their match in Japan was fucking dogshit though, while their Mania XIX match is nothing great at all really and honestly one of the worst matches on the card behind the divas triple threat and the Taker handicap match which isn't even bad.
> 
> Punk/Cena is one of the greatest matches ever yet doesn't enter the same stratosphere as Brock/Cena does as far as I'm concerned, same goes with Punk/Taker and a whole bunch of matches from the last fifteen years. Hell, I'd have Brock/Cena over Austin/Bret, Owen/Bret, and every single match in Wrestlemania History for that matter.


Austin/Bret???.?

Now you've gone too far sir. That match. That FUCKING match. Is a work of art. It's brutal ass kicking, it's wrestling, it's drama, it's the best double switch in history, it's everything a wrestling match should be. I have it tied with taker-hbk HiAC as my favorite match ever. I can never ever get sick of Austin-Bret , no matter how many times I've seen it. I defititely have to go and find Cena-Brock online as soon as I get home to see for sure if your point is anywhere near valid. 

You have gotten me pretty pumped to watch that match and see for myself. I got to experience the brutality of jbl vs Eddie judgement day last night, I wonder if cena vs lesnar can top it.

I really want to see punk vs Bryan OTL too, I'll have to find that as well. I've seen some people rate it over punk Cena MiTB and punk taker which are my 2 fave punk matches


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

^Just reading your post makes me want to watch Bret/Austin WM 13 lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's not for everybody and I can understand that.

It's the best WWF/WWE match since 1997 as far as I'm concerned though.

:brock


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> It's not for everybody and I can understand that.
> 
> It's the best WWF/WWE match since 1997 as far as I'm concerned though.
> 
> :brock


Yup. With Bulldog vs Owen on RAW in Europe as close second.



BeautifulDisaster said:


> lol @ Cena marks saying Brock vs Cena was Brock's best match ever. It might have been Cena's best match ever, but it doesn't touch Brock's best. Brock vs Benoit, Brock vs Angle, Brock vs Eddie, Brock vs Taker, etc were all better.


*COUGH* Subjectivity *COUGH*


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

In my personal opinion, Brock's Extreme Rules matches with Cena and HHH are overrated. Seeing people give Brock/Cena ****1/2 stars _baffles_ me. Yes, Brock's performances in both matches were great, but the Cena match shows exactly why I can't stand a lot of Cena's work as he just came back and won it after being beaten on by a legitimate animal in Lesnar. As for the HHH/Brock match, whilst the psychology was good (bar a Sharpshooter to work over Lesnar's knee, because Sharpshooters barely work the knee, if at all), there was too much offence from Triple H in the match. I'd give both matches a ***1/2 rating, myself. Brock vs. HHH was the best of their series, and Brock vs. Cena would've been better if Cena's logic-defying comeback was done with a bit more intelligence.

Oh, and Brock vs. Cena is definitely neither man's best match. Even if you give it **** or ****1/2, they have both had better matches with other people.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Lord Flvcko said:


> Yup. With Bulldog vs Owen on RAW in Europe as close second.


:mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I really want to see punk vs Bryan OTL too, I'll have to find that as well. I've seen some people rate it over punk Cena MiTB and punk taker which are my 2 fave punk matches


While, I love Punk/Cena, Punk/Bryan is a work of art. Depend on who you talk to, some have it as match of the year, while others have it close.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It'd be interesting to do a retrospective on both considering both "got" wrestling at a relatively early part into their careers.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel the timely GOAT match discussion is come again :lol. Brock/Cena are great but not GOAT great. I'd personally still have all the major hbk/takers over it, maybe bret/scsa idk and maybe hbk/mankind and eddie/jbl jd 04 as well


punk/bryan mitb >>>> punk/bryan otl IMO


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I feel the timely GOAT match discussion is come again :lol. Brock/Cena are great but not GOAT great. I'd personally still have all the major hbk/takers over it, maybe bret/scsa idk and maybe hbk/mankind and eddie/jbl jd 04 as well
> 
> 
> punk/bryan mitb >>>> punk/bryan otl IMO



Ok good to know. And you're right, we shouldn't turn this isn't another goat match discussion, it started as just what are your fave Brock matches and I got all huffy when he compared Cena/Brock to Austin-Bret.

Who would you like to see Brock enter a program with after punk. In other words, who do you see him matched up with at wm30? I don't think they are gonna take the punk feud all the way from Summerslam to mania but its definitely happened before I guess.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Who I want Brock to face... Randy Orton

Who he WILL face after Punk? Probably Undertaker or if he agrees to a deal, The Rock.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all wanna talk about 2012 classics?

*Shield/Rybell No* > all but Bork/Cena, Taker/Trips (imo) and Punk/Bryan OTL.

:ambrose2 :rollins :reigns :kane :bryan :ryback


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Who I want Brock to face... Randy Orton
> 
> Who he WILL face after Punk? Probably Undertaker or if he agrees to a deal, The Rock.


Before Orton won MITB, I think there could've been a decent shot of him getting a crack at Brock. I would've thought they'd have Brock go over Punk at SS, and then at Survivor Series have him go over Orton, putting his W/L record since returning up to 4-2, and in those two matches Brock would dominate and gain back the majority of the momentum he lost from the HHH feud and maybe the Cena loss. 

However, if Orton wins the WWE Title and he's a heel, there's no shot for it. Right now for Mania, I think Brock/Rock is what they want, however if Rock doesn't work, then it's all a matter of if they do Taker/Cena or not. If they do, Brock will probably face Punk and Punk will get his win back. If they don't, Taker/Brock is the obvious course of action.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Maybe Orton turns face again in a year or so too. Last year around this time, Lesnar/Punk seemed like a long shot from happening as Punk had just turned heel and seemed to have the spot of top heel secured for himself for a very long time. Fast forward to 2013 and he's a face again plus the Lesnar match is on.

Orton can be pretty successful as top heel if he completes a turn and then maybe he gets cheered so they decide to turn him by next year leading to match with BROCK.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I actually meant no shot in regards to it happening between now and Mania 30.

Yeah, they could potentially do something between Mania 30 and Mania 31.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I suck please ignore anything i say in the future. This is why WWE is not counting on me to make the card for Mania 30 haha


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock and HHH should never be anywhere near each other again. In the ring at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Any combination of Brock, Rock and HHH can fuck off tbh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

To be honest I couldn't give two shits if I never see rock or trips in the ring again, but you KNOW they are gonna be involved in mania 30 so I had to stick them somewhere. Maybe Brock vs Orton would have been better. Fuck. I struck out on that one I've already edited my list twice and I still don't like it. I suck.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Any combination of Brock, Rock and HHH can fuck off tbh.


I agree with this. This McMahon story has me worried they might do Rock/Trips, which can totally fuck off.

I would like to see them get creative with Brock once the Punk feud finishes. I'm so curious also to see what Heyman does after Summerslam. Assuming he's still with Axel, can Heyman help elevate him, or will he just stay as is? I know everyone's opinion of Axel so we don't need to turn this into a shitfest. I want him to be good, and he needs a feud for Summerslam. Now he's just chilling with the strap not doing much, except a feud for Punk when Brock isn't there.

Punk/Bryan at Mania for the title plz. In the main event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I agree with this. This McMahon story has me worried they might do Rock/Trips, which can totally fuck off.
> 
> I would like to see them get creative with Brock once the Punk feud finishes. I'm so curious also to see what Heyman does after Summerslam. Assuming he's still with Axel, can Heyman help elevate him, or will he just stay as is? I know everyone's opinion of Axel so we don't need to turn this into a shitfest. I want him to be good, and he needs a feud for Summerslam. Now he's just chilling with the strap not doing much, except a feud for Punk when Brock isn't there.
> 
> Punk/Bryan at Mania for the title plz. In the main event.


the only things I know for certain that I want to see at mania 30 is punk and Bryan for the wwe title and taker-Cena. Those two matches and anything else ill atleast be cool with. A Ziggler vs Henry for the WHC would be nice, maybe throw Jericho in there and make it a triple threat. Maybe orton vs Brock too. The thing is, you just KNOW the rock and trips are gonna be on the card, and I don't want them farting all over other peoples good matches so really you don't have anything left but letting them face each other. Oh we'll, you have to get up and take a piss at some point during a 3 hour mania show, might as well be during a rock triple h match no one cares about.

Isn't it weird that the best rivalry wwe has had in a long time, punk vs Cena, has never even been in a mania let alone main eventing it for the wwe title? Keep this in mind for the future, because I can't imagine it stays this way forever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Punk/Bryan at Mania for the title plz. * In the main event.*












Whatever main events will have to do with the power struggle storyline.

Wouldn't mind seeing HHH become WWE Champion so he can lose it to Rumble winner Bryan at Mania by tap out similar to Benoit. Rock and Orton can be the guys to represent HHH and Vince respectively. Cena can face Punk in attempt to "steal the show" and Brock/Taker can be the streak match. Alternatively, switch Brock and Cena's positions. (I wouldn't want Brock/Punk lasting more than 1 match, though)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Whatever main events will have to do with the power struggle storyline.
> 
> Wouldn't mind seeing HHH become WWE Champion so he can lose it to Rumble winner Bryan at Mania by tap out similar to Benoit. Rock and Orton can be the guys to represent HHH and Vince respectively. Cena can face Punk in attempt to "steal the show" and Brock/Taker can be the streak match. Alternatively, switch Brock and Cena's positions. (I wouldn't want Brock/Punk lasting more than 1 match, though)


:bron3

The idea of Trips winning the title has come up and the only way I would accept that is for him to drop it to Bryan at Mania. I honestly want him to just retire for good soon, but I know that probably depends on Vince and his timeline. Who knows, this could be his final storyline. Actually, now that I think about it, this could all lead to Triple H taking over for good, at least on TV. Maybe in real life. 

If the reports are true about the power struggle main eventing Mania, then for the aforementioned reason, that main eventing would probably make sense.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At this rate the WrestleMania 30 main events sound like shit. Of course, this is only general speculation. I don't care for dirtsheet reports or rumors. Lets keep those to a dull roar.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I just hope they pull the trigger on Bryan and make him champion. He has the momentum and it would be stupid to not give him the chance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To the dirtsheet's credit, they do get things right at times. For instance, they were 100% right with the WM29 main events. Many reports said it was gonna be Rock/Cena 2, Punk/Taker and HHH/Lesnar 2. Most of us hated it and were in denial but that was the end result.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't know about you guys, but I have zero, no less than zero, interest in seeing triple h face Vince McMahon in a wrestling match, let alone at mania, let alone MAIN FUCKING EVENTING MANIA. I'm sorry but mania should be saved for actual good wrestling matches in my mind, or did we not learn anything from Bret hart vs Vince aka the single most depressing moment in wrestling history (atleast for us older fans who grew up idolizing the hitman).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips becoming WWE Champion again would be :mark: :mark: :mark: and if he was heel, well, I just wouldn't know what to do with myself truth be told. 

Cena/Taker for Mania XXX or I'll be genuinely annoyed. I'm hoping they make an announcement about the travel packages on Raw so I can just buy the damn thing and be secure in the knowledge that I'm going. Then I can really start to get excited over speculating until I'm blue in the face and then raging when I don't get what I want. 

:vince3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WM main events mean jack these days. You know they're going to have Rock & Triple H in them the moment the last show is over. I stopped caring since WM 27 was a bust. It's all about the undercard for me. I was just lucky to get Undertaker vs Punk in the mix. Couldn't believe that one. Naturally, Rock & Trips went on after, and ha, that proved to be a mistake.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

It's starting to look less and less likely that we get to see the ultimate dream match in Cena vs. Taker next year. It's probably going to be Cena vs. Punk/Orton for the billionth time or a mix of all 3.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good thing I never bought into Undertaker vs Cena being possible. I'm just hoping Cesaro will make the show and Rollins will be on it again...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Cena vs Taker is saved for his retirement. Maybe they're waiting until #25 and that's when the match happens. It's the ultimate dream match involving Taker's streak, so it makes sense that they're saving the best for last.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

#25 is still 4 'Manias away. Does Taker have that much gas left in the tank? I don't think he does.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't really give a damn what main events or where a match happens so long as I enjoy it. It's fun to speculate over why a certain match goes where on the card and why etc but at the end of the day, a shit match is still a shit match no matter where it takes place. 

The last time HHH 'main evented' Mania was 2009. Rock has 'main evented' the last 3 in succession however. If he works this one and his opponent is either Lesnar, Taker or HHH, there's a good chance he'll have his 4th main event in a row. 

Whatever ends up happening, I'm a mark for Rock, HHH, Brock and Cena so I want them all on the card along with Taker who needs no explanation. Since I'm planning to be there live I want my money's worth. A card without these guys on it would leave me feeling short changed tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think he loves to prove everyone wrong. People have talked about his retirement for a decade now and he just keeps coming back as good as ever. I'd hope can still go all the way until 25, if that's what they're saving the Cena match for.

Here's what they can do until then:

WM30: Taker vs Brock (22)
WM31: Taker vs Sheamus (23)
WM32: Taker vs _(young guy who has been built to that level, maybe Bryan)_ (24)
WM33: Taker vs Cena (25)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I was just thinking that. Sure, Taker's been proving those reports wrong from 10 years, but he's nearly 50. When Wrestlemania 34 comes around he'll be about 53. Shit, Cena will be 41 then. Do we really want a 41 year old vs a 53 year old main eventing? 

Let that marinate.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The old man main event will be on par with Japanese vets. Not TNA's main event scene the past few years.

:andy


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

WWE has also shown that they don't give a damn about tradition or "numbers". If that was the case, WM 30 would be held at MSG and Taker would have retired 20-0. I highly doubt he'll be wrestling at 53. He has had so many injuries over the years that he's basically been relegated to one match a year while he spends 10 months rehabbing his injury suffered during his previous match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

A 41 year old JOHN CENA vs. a 53 year old UNDERTAKER in a match we've been waiting to see for over a decade? Hell yeah I want to see it. Sometimes I think people get too caught up in 'the future' and forget to live in the present. Barring either Cena or Taker suddenly getting super shit and unable to go, I'd want them in the main event no matter what else was on the card. Hell I don't even care if it was the main event I just want to see the damn match. Whether it opens the show or closes it. I don't care, they just need to make it happen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> WM main events mean jack these days. You know they're going to have Rock & Triple H in them the moment the last show is over. I stopped caring since WM 27 was a bust. It's all about the undercard for me. I was just lucky to get Undertaker vs Punk in the mix. Couldn't believe that one. Naturally, Rock & Trips went on after, and ha, that proved to be a mistake.


Ain't that the truth. There are dead crowds and then there is the crowd from mania29 at the start of the trips Brock bout. I seriously think you could have heard a mouse fart during the first 5 minutes. Punk gets a lot of credit for that match but I think taker deserves an even split. It's amazing that a 50+ year old man still has the best match on the biggest stage, year in and year out (except mania 27, wasn't as big a fan of that one, but I didn't really like any of the matches that night)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The main event should be between :rock and :cena5

THE TIEBREAKER! :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Ain't that the truth. There are dead crowds and then there is the crowd from mania29 at the start of the trips Brock bout. I seriously think you could have heard a mouse fart during the first 5 minutes. Punk gets a lot of credit for that match but I think taker deserves an even split. It's amazing that a 50+ year old man still has the best match on the biggest stage, year in and year out (except mania 27, wasn't as big a fan of that one, but I didn't really like any of the matches that night)


WWE should really think about what they're doing with Undertaker at WM. They know fans will be the most emotionally invested in his match. It's been the case for years. Punk vs Undertaker at Mania & then it goes before two rematches we just saw and one most didn't even give a damn about? Seriously? Yeah, WWE you should have expected a quieter crowd there.

Undertaker is the greatest. Let us forget that DUD at WM 27. The rest speaks for itself. Taker is WM.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TBH, even if Rock works Mania, I don't see him main eventing this coming year. Whatever his match is will probably be the biggest money maker (in the case of vs. Brock or vs. Taker, and if Taker/Cena doesn't happen then also if he faces HHH), but I don't see it closing the show. I see either Taker/Cena, or the WWE Title match if it involves Brock, Cena, or HHH in the match. These are some of the scenarios I see potentially happening:

Taker vs. Cena 
Brock vs. CM Punk
Vince vs. HHH
Bryan vs. Orton for the WWE Title

In this case, Taker/Cena would be the main event, as Bryan/Orton just isn't big enough to main event Mania, and the other two matches aren't as big as Taker/Cena.

Taker vs. Cena
Brock vs. Punk for the WWE Title
Vince vs. HHH

This scenario is similar to the last one, only Orton/Bryan aren't included due to the fact if they had a match in this case, it wouldn't be for the title and that's what would put them in the realm of the above matches. In any case, this scenario would be Brock defending the title against Punk in the main event, as that would be the perfect way to send fans home happy... for Punk to get the belt in the main event. That being said, the crowd will probably be killed after Taker/Cena, but it is what it is.

Rock vs. Brock
Taker vs. Cena
Vince vs. HHH
Bryan vs. Orton for the WWE Title

Rock/Brock isn't main eventing because at the end of the day, because even though they're arguably the two biggest stars in the industry today, they're still two part-timers and I can't imagine Vince having them go on to end Mania. Taker/Cena would main event in this case.

Taker vs. Cena
Rock vs. HHH
Brock vs. Punk for the title

Like above, Brock/Punk would main event

Taker vs. Rock
Bryan vs. HHH for the WWE Title
Brock vs. Punk

This case is probably the least likely to happen because I can't see them not putting Cena in one of the big matches. However in this case, Bryan/HHH main events with Bryan taking the title from HHH.

Taker vs. Brock
Rock vs. HHH
Bryan vs. Cena for the WWE Title

In this case, Bryan/Cena main events.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker is a crowd killer with his matches. The same thing sorta happened last year. Cell match with HHH was so exciting that the crowd were mostly silent all the way until the Jericho/Punk match (except the nearfalls in the end). So credit mostly goes to him.

And while we're talking about Mania, who has the greatest list of opponents? I think Triple H has it by far.

Looking at his list of opponents, you'll see: Goldust, Owen Hart, Ultimate Warrior (squash but still), Kane, Rock, Foley, Big Show, Undertaker, Jericho, Booker T, Benoit, Shawn Michaels, Batista, Cena, Orton, Sheamus, Brock Lesnar


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> The main event should be between :rock and :cena5
> 
> THE TIEBREAKER! :vince


Don't even joke about that. Please. Vince prolly has a radar up to see if any fan anywhere would watch that. If he could find even the slightest justification I'm sure we would be force fed the rock and Cena 3 rubber match. Ugh. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

The tricky part from WWE is that they have to have enough main event talent to sell the show, while also bringing along the Seth Rollins and Dolph zigglers of the world to get them exposure and see how they handle the bright lights.

I just hope wwe gives us Bryan vs punk for the title, both guys deserve it and it would undoubtedly be a kick ass contest, those two have good chemistry, and at this point Bryan could have a great match with a broom or a Miz.


----------



## RenegadexParagon (Jan 6, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> The main event should be between :rock and :cena5
> 
> THE TIEBREAKER! :vince


What if the supposed tiebreaker ends in a draw?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> TBH, even if Rock works Mania, I don't see him main eventing this coming year. Whatever his match is will probably be the biggest money maker (in the case of vs. Brock or vs. Taker, and if Taker/Cena doesn't happen then also if he faces HHH), but I don't see it closing the show. I see either Taker/Cena, or the WWE Title match if it involves Brock, Cena, or HHH in the match. These are some of the scenarios I see potentially happening:


I'm not sure exactly what combination would be best out of the ones you mentioned, but IMO there's no way Cena doesn't main event if he faces Taker. There's no bigger match than that right now and Punk/Lesnar wouldn't close over it even if that happened for the title.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RenegadexParagon said:


> What if the supposed tiebreaker ends in a draw?


4 TIMES IN A LIFETIME!

:vince



> I'm not sure exactly what combination would be best out of the ones you mentioned, but IMO there's no way Cena doesn't main event if he faces Taker. There's no bigger match than that right now and Punk/Lesnar wouldn't close over it if that happened for the title.


While I'd love to think that's what Vince would think, I don't. I think as long as one of the "big 4" are in the WWE Title match, that's main eventing. Taker/Cena would be the biggest match on the card by a considerable amount in all scenarios except Rock/Brock. But if Punk/Lesnar, Bryan/HHH, Bryan/Cena, Bryan/Punk/Cena, Bryan/Punk/Lesnar, or whatever of the like gets the WWE Title, I can't see it not main eventing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the problem though. WWE is only focused on the main events for WM with the same part time lads that the rest of the roster doesn't even get a chance to work on the show. Danielson just now got his first match at a WM. WM is a pretty diluted show these days. It's part timers this & stupid random musician concert taking up time that. I remember when it was all about the wrestling. Heck, WM 19 had musical performances on it. Yet the wrestling was fully in tact and gave time for all matches to shine. What happened WWE?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If Rock/Cena III main events I'll honestly break my 16 year streak of ordering Wrestlemania. They don't deserve my money if they wanna book that trash.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker has owned WM for the better part of the last decade, I don't give a fuck how old he is seeing him face Cena at any time in the next few years is gonna be :mark:, and even when he isn't facing Cena, there is very, very little WWE can give us that should main event over Undertaker's match. They do it every fucking year and never seem to learn. The crowd goes fucking insane for Undertaker, then die off completely because NOTHING AND NO-ONE can follow him.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Watching a streak match from the stadium is so exhausting. Anybody who has ever attended will tell you that. I literally collapsed into my chair and stayed there for the remainder of the show in most cases. It takes a lot to work yourself back up again. WWE definitely ought to know by now that if they don't want the streak match in the main event, they need to put it on considerably early in order to give people enough time to recover and respond to the rest of the show. They seemed to get it right with Mania 28 because by the time Rock/Cena rolled around we were ready. That obviously wasn't the case for 29 where the pacing of the show on the whole was atrocious and of course the 2 rematches that came after suffered heavily as a result. Mania 27 and 25 were the same scenario.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Undertaker has owned WM for the better part of the last decade, I don't give a fuck how old he is seeing him face Cena at any time in the next few years is gonna be :mark:, and even when he isn't facing Cena, there is very, very little WWE can give us that should main event over Undertaker's match. They do it every fucking year and never seem to learn. The crowd goes fucking insane for Undertaker, then die off completely because NOTHING AND NO-ONE can follow him.


yet they think a aged, terrible Rock can. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock in his absolute PRIME couldn't follow Undertaker right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's a given.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rock/Cena III ain't happening. Rock got his win in his home. Cena got his win and the WWE Title. The buyrate this year showed a fairly significant decrease, and it'll go down more if they put Rock/Cena on again. Even Rock/Cena with Taker/Brock would probably struggle to break a million buys unless they really hype the fuck outta Taker/Brock, but even that's risky because Taker/Brock... it's not a match that can be the main event. Brock can barely speak well on the mic, let alone sell a feud, and even if Heyman does all the speaking as usual, Taker's long past the point of being able to really go back and fourth with Heyman as not only does his gimmick restrict him, but he's definitely lost a step in that regard from where he was even 5 years ago. 

So all in all, Rock/Cena III isn't happening unless it's at a Summerslam or Survivor Series or something, and that's probably not happening either.

Oh, and yeah, Taker rules the world at Mania. If he does go to 25-0, here's how I see it going down:

30- vs. Cena
31- vs. Lesnar
32- vs. recently made-big star (Bryan?)
33- vs. same as above... maybe Wyatt? Who knows.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How many times has Taker been screwed out of the main event spot? WM23 should've been closed by Taker/Batista (Rumble winner rule), WM25 should've been HBK/Taker (glad Orton got his deserved main event match even if it was shit) and WM27 should've been Taker/HHH (not a big fan but damn sure a better pick than The fucking Miz).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'd like to think even Vince knows he couldn't do that match again without Cena turning. Rock's not getting booed, and someone would have to be heel to make this fresh. That leaves Cena. Either way, it's not happening again.

Taker got to main event 24 and 26. He's basically become the special attraction match. He probably won't main event again until he retires.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> That's the problem though. WWE is only focused on the main events for WM with the same part time lads that the rest of the roster doesn't even get a chance to work on the show. Danielson just now got his first match at a WM. WM is a pretty diluted show these days. It's part timers this & stupid random musician concert taking up time that. I remember when it was all about the wrestling. Heck, WM 19 had musical performances on it. Yet the wrestling was fully in tact and gave time for all matches to shine. What happened WWE?


Well, compared to these last few years, WM 29 was all about the wrasslin'. Outside of P. Diddy there was nothing bullshitty like stupid backstage skits. Then again, even with that, they still had to cut a match off the card due to time restraints. Certainly overhype is to blame though - with entrances and all promo packages (was like 3 or so) aired included, the total time that Twice In A Lifetime took was *45 minutes.*

Now bring on Thrice In A Lifetime! :vince


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> How many times has Taker been screwed out of the main event spot? WM23 should've been closed by Taker/Batista (Rumble winner rule), WM25 should've been HBK/Taker (glad Orton got his deserved main event match even if it was shit) and WM27 should've been Taker/HHH (not a big fan but damn sure a better pick than The fucking Miz).


I agree with 23, that should've been main evented by Taker/Batista. 25 I'm a bit iffy on. Taker/HBK was the biggest match on the card for WM25, but Orton/HHH was a white hot WWE Title feud. They probably thought the feud would make it 100% guaranteed people are into the match, and didn't expect Taker/HBK to kill the crowd even for them. In hindsight Taker/HBK should've gone on last, but I think they made the right call at that point in time without having the knowledge of how the two matches would turn out.

WM27... no. Not unless they were gonna do a different ending, but Mania ending like that, with no music and Taker just getting wheeled out, would've been very very odd. Plus I don't think the match quality itself warranted a main event spot anyway, even if it was a billion times better than Cena/Miz.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why WM 29 was a shocking surprise...until WWE put Undertaker vs Punk on after the World Championship. Then everything went the way I expected.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goddamn me if I wouldn't have taken Edge/ADR over Miz/Cena at 27. Not only was it a good match, but Del Rio was the Rumble winner, and since I have a light feel that they already knew his situation, they kinda should've had Edge close the show in his final match ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well that couldn't have worked. Only b/c Del Rio was that guy nobody gave a damn about to be taken that seriously. You guys are living in the past when the Rumble actually mattered too. It only does if Cena wins it now.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah I think Undertaker should've main evented Wrestlemania since 2007..


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You too should, Cody. And so should the WWE. It's the Royal fucking Rumble. Nobody can't tell me with a serious look that it doesn't matter, regardless of its current situation

And with proper build-up, I'm certain ADR would mean something. They gave him the Lesnar treatment instead, and unlike Lesnar, his great in-ring skills and look weren't aided by his natural charisma and a spectacular mouthpiece in Heyman like in Bork's case that got him over instantly. In his case, those were his downfall from the start.

Though we all know Christian should've gotten the shot instead anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've checked out of the Rumble a long, long time ago. Then 2007 - 2010 happened...still, I knew the match just wasn't the same once Undertaker won and didn't go on last. Although I know why. Batista couldn't be trusted. Instead Batista was motivated as hell and had a stellar match with Undertaker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, at least Cena/Shawn was still very good. Can't say the same about the Main Events of Manias with Hogan/Rock syndrome (13, 18, 25, 29).

Oh, and btw, because we're now into calling others via real (I guess) names, y'all can call me by Andrew.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You forgot to list 27 & 28 too. Wait, remove 18. That one is fine. Only underwhelming.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR has certainly fallen over the last few years . Went from being my absolute favourite event to being one of the worst shows of the year the last couple of years. WHAT DID YOU DO, VINCE? I honestly think having the 2 world titles is one of the reasons its fucked up. One main title, one focus. Winning the RR and going to WM to wrestle for the ONLY big title in the company might give the WWE more of a reason to make the winner matter and the match to main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't help having the Rumble winner only go for the World Championship and open the show two years in a row. That demoted the credibility down quite a bit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, and winners like Del Rio didn't help it either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio or Santino. ONLY ONE CAN WIN.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Santino was over at least.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> You forgot to list 27 & 28 too. Wait, remove 18. That one is fine. Only underwhelming.


Oh yeah, 27 too.

But since Hogan/Rock syndrome means that, regardless of how good the ME, it simply shouldn't have been the ME and the dead crowds prove that, 28 is out. Rock/Cena I was actually quite big at the time, with the whole Attitude vs. PG 1 year build thing, so it made sense to ME. And the crowd was anything but dead - in fact it was its maker.

18 was blah, it was boring and hard to care after Hogan/Rock killed Toronto (in a good way) anyway so it's in.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

28's main event crowd wise was fine. Taker's bout didn't hinder it at all, and ATF offered a good explanation as to why. Probably the only match in recent years that did fine following Taker.



The Beast Incarnate said:


> THAT'S WHAT HE DOES: The Top 43 Mark Henry Bouts Ever
> 
> 
> Yeah, so I posted the first piece of this list yesterday and it looked like complete shit, so I’m just going to go ahead and post the whole damn thing here in a spoiler because that’s how I’m rollin’ with these things nowadays. I know a few people love the whole “picture-countdown” format, but this is the underground Mark Henry stuff we’re talking about here, and it deserves a more under the radar Mark Henry esque presentation. Here we’re talking about a man who since being canned and relegated to OVW for training in 2000 with a subsequent return in 2002/2003 has been a top notch worker who has only really gotten noticed when he finally received a big time singles push for a major title in 2011 to present, where he’s acknowledged as one of the best monster heels the company has ever seen.
> ...


Epic list. I totally forgot all about Punk/Mark from last year. Really good match. That entire episode of RAW was just all around awesome with a hot as FUCK crowd. I liked it better than the post Mania RAW and post mania crowd from this year easily.They were all around hype for the product and what was going on in the show.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Wasn't Alex Riley meant to be take Santino's role as the runner up in the 2011 Rumble if he didn't botch that night?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Ok good to know. And you're right, we shouldn't turn this isn't another goat match discussion, it started as just what are your fave Brock matches and I got all huffy when he compared Cena/Brock to Austin-Bret.
> 
> Who would you like to see Brock enter a program with after punk. In other words, who do you see him matched up with at wm30? I don't think they are gonna take the punk feud all the way from Summerslam to mania but its definitely happened before I guess.


Sorry man was out running errands, who do I want Brock to face ? I'd like to see brock/cena revisted, I know they can never dupitcate er 12 but it shouldnt have been one off while we saw 3 hhh/lesnar. I'm gonna go out on of the usuage and say A face Ziggler vs monster heel would be :mark: worthy, it could be brock or henry Give me it NOW!!

BROCK/TAKER should take place at mania tho, IDK how it would affect everyone else


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I never heard about the Riley thing. That's really interesting if it's true.

And I just re-watched Angle vs. Lesnar from SummerSlam '03 to help me get hyped up for this year. Not sure exactly what it is, but I like this match SOOOO much more than I like their WrestleMania XIX match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As far as I'm aware, Santino was always supposed to be the last guy, with Riley supposed to help eliminate Cena with Miz's help to set up their WM bout. But Riley gone fucked up so they had to change shit about :lmao. If you pay attention you can see shit going on outside the ring as they tried to sort it out :lmao.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ Riley fucking up. One ref went over to Miz on commentary to improvise on that. I was wondering during the match why he suddenly came back to distract Cena.



PGSucks said:


> And I just re-watched Angle vs. Lesnar from SummerSlam '03 to help me get hyped up for this year. Not sure exactly what it is, but I like this match SOOOO much more than I like their WrestleMania XIX match.


I can help you with that. Better action, better crowd, correct use of the heel/face dynamics. Also one of the few times I don't mind Vince's presence post-Attitude Era. That match is so awesome and all the love Wrestlemania XIX gets should go to it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If y'all could describe the last 10 WM's in one word (not using "good", "bad", etc.), what would them be?

To me, something like this:

20: Emotional
21: Undercard
22: Atmosphere
23: Big
24: Fun
25: Whatever
26: Consistent
27: Underwhelming
28: Spectacle
29: Rematches


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> I never heard about the Riley thing. That's really interesting if it's true.
> 
> And I just re-watched Angle vs. Lesnar from SummerSlam '03 to help me get hyped up for this year. Not sure exactly what it is, but I like this match SOOOO much more than I like their WrestleMania XIX match.


As do I. Lesnar vs Angle's Summerslam match actually kept me intrigued throughout the match whereas their WrestleMania 19 match was boring for the most part up until the botched Shooting Star Press.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I legit thought Santino was going to win the Rumble that year. Would have been a better choice than Del Rio, that's for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 03 Angle/Lesnar is just beautiful. Love everything about it, also including Vince's involvement. Was what their WM match should have been. I just wonder how much better the WM match COULD have been had Angle's neck not been totally fucked at the time.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember being so sure that Angle/Lesnar was going to happen again at WMXX, but then Eddie won and I marked


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I will never disagree with the wwe for not letting taker main event 23 because I love cena/hbk and it takes all angry away,HOWEVER its crazy that him and shawn didnt me for wm 25. 
----

I may be in the minority but I would rather see a Cena/punk/bryan and brock/taker as opposed to taker/cena


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I prefer Cena/Punk alone. Those 2 together deserve the WM ME more than anyone atm to soldify their feud as one of the greatest ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Oh yeah, 27 too.
> 
> But since Hogan/Rock syndrome means that, regardless of how good the ME, it simply shouldn't have been the ME and the dead crowds prove that, 28 is out. Rock/Cena I was actually quite big at the time, with the whole Attitude vs. PG 1 year build thing, so it made sense to ME. And the crowd was anything but dead - in fact it was its maker.
> 
> 18 was blah, it was boring and hard to care after Hogan/Rock killed Toronto (in a good way) anyway so it's in.


ah so match quality not withstanding. Got ya.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

ATF said:


> I prefer Cena/Punk alone. Those 2 together deserve the WM ME more than anyone atm to soldify their feud as one of the greatest ever.


They have faced each other too many times over the past 2 years to warrant a Wrestlemania main event, which is another rematch. Once you've seen one Cena/Punk match, you've basically seen them all and I think the match they had on Raw earlier this year was the unofficial feud ender because Cena finally got his win.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena has never main evented a Wrestlemania with his main rivals anyway. He didn't main event with Edge, Orton (although the triple threat match comes close) and will probably not main event with Punk. Those three are generally known to be his biggest rivals.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's got enough to warrant happening at WM. Fans want to see it. That alone is enough right there. WWE did the same with Triple H vs Orton. They wrestled a ton and then collided at WM. That hardly had the love or interest Punk vs Cena seems to bring. I wouldn't object.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> ah so match quality not withstanding. Got ya.


In what part did I say that match quality is irrelevant? Jericho/HHH as an e.g. was actually enjoyable for what it was, but it was boring given that not only was the crowd *dead*, but the fact that it was given the ME slot over Hogan/Rock was ridiculous. And yes, to me at least, crowds play a part on my enjoyment. It's far harder for me to get into a match that has crickets of a reaction.

And Rock/Cena I wasn't one I thought sucked either. It was long and boring but it certainly had its cool moments and the atmosphere was awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh then idk what in the hell you're going for then.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Let me try to rephrase then: Hogan/Rock syndrome means that the show referred with having that had the "real" Main Event of the PPV relegated to midcard (like Austin/Bret or Hogan/Rock), in favor of a match no one really cared about at 1st due to a lot of circumstances (e.g. Sid/Taker or Jericho/HHH).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> In what part did I say that match quality is irrelevant? Jericho/HHH as an e.g. was actually enjoyable for what it was, but it was boring given that not only was the crowd *dead*, but the fact that it was given the ME slot over Hogan/Rock was ridiculous. And yes, to me at least, crowds play a part on my enjoyment. It's far harder for me to get into a match that has crickets of a reaction.
> 
> And Rock/Cena I wasn't one I thought sucked either. It was long and boring but it certainly had its cool moments and the atmosphere was awesome.


So true. There is an epic Jericho vs Eddie match on the viva la rasa set from when the 2 were in wcw, I think it was at super brawl but I'm not sure. Anyways, those 2 put on a freaking clinic of a match, but the crowd was completely dead because they were both just generic baby faces and hadn't established their characters yet. I watched the match once and wasn't able to get into it, cause the crowd was so dead. On the other hand, hogan and rock had a shit match technically speaking, but the crowd reactions turned that one into an instant classic.

Would hbk vs. taker at mania 25 be considered by many people to be the best match in wrestlemania history if there had just been crickets during all those epic false finishes? No way in hell, those two have both had better matches technically speaking, but the roller coaster they took that crowd on is what really makes that match so well regarded.

Personally, as I've said on here before, for match quality reasons alone, I'm hoping for cm punk vs Daniel Bryan at mania, because those two have excellent chemistry and we haven't seen that match nearly as much as we've seen punk vs Cena. That said I still won't be pissed if they go punk vs Cena this year, as long as those two switch it up and add new elements. Maybe they can even do a gimmick like hell in a cell, with punk taking all the punishment and Cena turning heel n the process? Wait, no chance in hell of that happening forget I said anything.


On another note, I NEED SOME BABYFACE ZIGGLER or DANIEL BRYAN against a monster heel like ,ark Henry or Brock lesnar. I hope wwe has plans for a match like that in the future.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Sorry to double post-

I just got the 5 disc set of the summerslams from 1998-2002. Obviously I'm gonna watch the whole thing at some point but can you give me some suggestions on your alls favorite matches from those years so I can cherry pick a few to watch first? Thanks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 98 - Uhhhh... don't bother 
SS 99 - Undertaker & Show Vs X-pac & Kane and Shane Vs Test
SS 00 - TLC
SS 01 - Austin Vs Angle duh, Tajiri Vs X-Pac, Ryhno Vs Jericho, and BOD Vs DDP & Kanyon for the lulz
SS 02 - EVERYTHING, even if I don't think too highly of HBK/HHH


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> Sorry to double post-
> 
> I just got the 5 disc set of the summerslams from 1998-2002. Obviously I'm gonna watch the whole thing at some point but can you give me some suggestions on your alls favorite matches from those years so I can cherry pick a few to watch first? Thanks


1998 - HHH/Rock ladder match
1999 - Don't remember much from this event.
2000 - Benoit/Jericho 2/3 falls, TLC I, HHH/Rock/Angle
2001 - Storm/Edge, X-Pac/Tajiri, Angle/Austin
2002 - Angle/Mysterio, Edge/Eddie, HBK/HHH, Rock/Brock - The GOAT Summerslam.

EDIT: Cal beat me to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For 2001 don't skip on the six man. It's WAY too fun to do that. I also dig the Edge vs Storm and RVD vs Hardy matches too.

Everything else Cal listed is dead on. Except skip Triple H vs Michaels. It's pretty bad.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nothing special from 1999. Haven't seen 98 yet. 2000 has Benoit/Jericho and TLC. You can also watch and enjoy everything from 2001 and 2002.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I remembered loving SS '99 as a kid. Watched it recently and other than Shane/Test, I really didn't care for anything. The Pac/Kane vs Taker/Show match wasn't bad but it didn't really impress me either.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Welcome myself into the new thread. Everytime I seem to go away for a while, a new one is made. :no:

It's been far too long since I've properly reviewed a match, the last one being Undertaker vs. Orton from Summerslam '05. Damn good match btw. Think I may watch some Lesnar tonight.

Can anyone explain to me why Christian won the 3 way on Smackdown? I mean the match will be good I'm sure but it's pretty much out of nowhere considering they basically dropped the Christian/Ambrose and Del Rio/Ziggler feuds in a day and thrust people into new shit. Christian wins and Sandow cashes in?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch it in order and save the best for last.

What the hell am I going to do next? Review a whole bunch of random shows? Do ANOTHER list? Where the hell do I go from here gosh darnit.. I think I'm going to buy some more WWE DVDS to get the collection up to speed as it's been lagging lately... Think I have like, 217 WWF/WWE DVDs as of now? I need to pick up a whole bunch from this year like The Best of IYH, War Games, Top 25 Rivalries, ECW Unreleased, & Payback as of right now I think.

Taker needs to Main Event more Wrestlemanias anyways, I've just about had it up to HERE with this Rock main eventing every single year nonsense. The WWE can ride his dick for the other 364 days of the year, let's just get a GOOD MATCH in the main event of XXX shall we? There's been one good main event in the last five fucking Wrestlemanias, it's getting horrible.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks a lot guys, I might do a review of the Jericho vs Benoit 2 out of 3 falls match when I'm done watching it, those are 2 of my top 5 favorites and I haven't seen many people talk about that match. Appreciate the help.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2/3 falls between Benoit & Jericho sucks balls. No wonder nobody talks about it .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Watch it in order and save the best for last.
> 
> What the hell am I going to do next? Review a whole bunch of random shows? Do ANOTHER list? Where the hell do I go from here gosh darnit.. I think I'm going to buy some more WWE DVDS to get the collection up to speed as it's been lagging lately... Think I have like, 217 WWF/WWE DVDs as of now? I need to pick up a whole bunch from this year like The Best of IYH, War Games, Top 25 Rivalries, ECW Unreleased, & Payback as of right now I think.
> 
> Taker needs to Main Event more Wrestlemanias anyways, I've just about had it up to HERE with this Rock main eventing every single year nonsense. The WWE can ride his dick for the other 364 days of the year, let's just get a GOOD MATCH in the main event of XXX shall we? There's been one good main event in the last five fucking Wrestlemanias, it's getting horrible.


Definitely pick up the best of iyh, that has some really great matches on it, make sure to buy the blu ray if possible because it has extra matches on it.

I liked the top 25 rivalries as well, the main documentary is over 2 hours long and pretty interesting. Nits hosted by this annoying non sensical chick I've never seen before, but she looks SMOKIN in a lab coat haha. The matches it includes aren't the greatest, but it does have the excellent Brock vs Kurt match from Summerslam and an old school epic in the I quit match between magnum t.a. And tully Blanchard. 

I own both sets and I thought they were both worth the $20 I spent at best buy


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah, it's way too short. I think it's ok though, coulda/shoulda been much better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> 2/3 falls between Benoit & Jericho sucks balls. No wonder nobody talks about it .


Ugh. Way to ruin a match before I even watch it. Jerk


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

best of IYH is :mark: I love me some new gen so yea, guy on YT put out every IYH on his channel


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Welcome myself into the new thread. Everytime I seem to go away for a while, a new one is made. :no:
> 
> It's been far too long since I've properly reviewed a match, the last one being Undertaker vs. Orton from Summerslam '05. Damn good match btw. Think I may watch some Lesnar tonight.
> 
> Can anyone explain to me why Christian won the 3 way on Smackdown? I mean the match will be good I'm sure but it's pretty much out of nowhere considering they basically dropped the Christian/Ambrose and Del Rio/Ziggler feuds in a day and thrust people into new shit. Christian wins and Sandow cashes in?


The Christian thing was obviously nothing. He pinned Christian in the six man that ended it. The Dolph vs Del Rio program being dropped so Dolph can do crap with AJ on the other hand...yeah, that's terrible. Dolph is getting lowered for nothing. Talk about striking while the iron is hot. He's over. The face turn worked immediately. Keep him going for the World Championship or heck have him be the champion until Sandow gets his chance. Idk. It's just balls the way they went. Not going to deny the random Christian bit. Good for him and the match vs Del Rio should be good per usual. _(btw Christian beat Del Rio clean on RAW. Then he was put in the triple threat on Smackdown, hence the win.)_



Callamus said:


> 2/3 falls between Benoit & Jericho sucks balls. No wonder nobody talks about it .


I like it. 8*D

Undertaker vs Kane from that night > though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Ugh. Way to ruin a match before I even watch it. Jerk


Don't listen to him, it's an awesome match!

Specially for a little less than 15 minutes with three falls. DAT DRAGON SUPLEX! :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> The Christian thing was obviously nothing. He pinned Christian in the six man that ended it. The Dolph vs Del Rio program being dropped so Dolph can do crap with AJ on the other hand...yeah, that's terrible. Dolph is getting lowered for nothing. Talk about striking while the iron is hot. He's over. The face turn worked immediately. Keep him going for the World Championship or heck have him be the champion until Sandow gets his chance. Idk. It's just balls the way they went. Not going to deny the random Christian bit. Good for him and the match vs Del Rio should be good per usual. _(btw Christian beat Del Rio clean on RAW. Then he was put in the triple threat on Smackdown, hence the win.)_


Dont get me started with the current situation with Dolph, having a pretty decent day . I kinda am starting to believe that dirtsheet about Shawn talking to Vince and Vince saying he wasn't to high on a certain guy and doesn't see "money" in him was actually Ziggler


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The Christian thing was obviously nothing. He pinned Christian in the six man that ended it. The Dolph vs Del Rio program being dropped so Dolph can do crap with AJ on the other hand...yeah, that's terrible. Dolph is getting lowered for nothing. Talk about striking while the iron is hot. He's over. The face turn worked immediately. Keep him going for the World Championship or heck have him be the champion until Sandow gets his chance. Idk. It's just balls the way they went. Not going to deny the random Christian bit. Good for him and the match vs Del Rio should be good per usual. _(btw Christian beat Del Rio clean on RAW. Then he was put in the triple threat on Smackdown, hence the win.)_


Ah ok, didn't know Christian beat him clean previously. Thought for sure they'd go with RVD since he's over as tits everywhere they go. They're really fucking Ziggler over though, I think we all know that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm still thinking RVD vs Axel is going to be their next bet. RVD not being at SummerSlam would be odd. This seems to be the only plan left for him.

Dolph. Yeah, WWE what in the hell are you doing? It's worse with the fact that he WAS at a certain level & gets good reactions. This isn't a Cesaro story where it's like "if they give him a chance". Dolph was there. Now they're just throwing it away. It's really weird. For lack of a better word that prevents me from showing fandom first. Not that I'd care, but it's a weird move. Got to use Dolph's overness to get that Langston over...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

On retro SummerSlams topic, SSlam 97 is excellent. The Cage match rules, Goldust/Pillman was super fun, Owen/Austin was great until the neck injury and Taker/Bret was a work of art, even if ONO was better. Legit top 5 SSlam ever for me, behind only 1991, 2011, 2001 and 2002.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More like work of shit. Fuck that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished watching the Jericho vs Rey mysterio match from extreme rules.

Wow what an awesome match. My only gripe is that it was an effing no DQ match and they only used a chair for like 3 spots right at the end. Other than that this match was just about perfect. 4stars from me. I love that diving plancha into a code breaker counter spot they do, and Jericho ripping Rey's mask off was definitely an unexpected ending for someone like me who wasn't watching much wwe in 2010. I'm going on to my summerslam DVD set.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They should just do Orton vs RVD for SummerSlam. Neither have any official feuds going on (Orton should have more than just a cash-in) and they have the chemistry to put together quality matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> More like work of shit. Fuck that match.









You're the only one I ever knew to say that about that match.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Almost feels like they're breeding Dolph to chase and inevitably win the Rumble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Just finished watching the Jericho vs Rey mysterio match from extreme rules.
> 
> Wow what an awesome match. My only gripe is that it was an effing no DQ match and they only used a chair for like 3 spots right at the end. Other than that this match was just about perfect. 4stars from me. I love that diving plancha into a code breaker counter spot they do, and Jericho ripping Rey's mask off was definitely an unexpected ending for someone like me who wasn't watching much wwe in 2010. I'm going on to my summerslam DVD set.


(Y)

It's tremendous. Didn't need to do too much with weapons. It was just kind of there b/c of the PPV.



Choke2Death said:


> They should just do Orton vs RVD for SummerSlam. Neither have any official feuds going on (Orton should have more than just a cash-in) and they have the chemistry to put together quality matches.


Please no.



ATF said:


> You're the only one I ever knew to say that about that match.


Which baffles me to intense levels. You see so many gripes for other matches that mean nothing. Yet this match is chalk full of being bullshit and it's never harped on. wtf? Oh boy that thrilling leg work is so engrossing. Best part is when it goes nowhere, yay! I rather watch Undertaker vs Giant Gonzales. I'm deadly serious. that bored me way, way less than this.

Points for the Scott Pilgrim gif though.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

-Mystery- said:


> Almost feels like they're breeding Dolph to chase and inevitably win the Rumble.


Would not be against that. I think he'd still be a crowd favorite.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it has legs to go to the Rumble, then yes please. It'll be a new face to win and one that fans actually care about.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

He's the kind of guy that can (and did last year) put on a fantastic showing of stamina in the rumble, too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I wouldnt be opposed to Ziggler winning the rumble either, but you cant start and stop his push. He is red hot right now and gets the 3rd best reaction out there behind punk and bryan

cjacks have you seen their bash match ? anybody here a fan ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> It's tremendous. Didn't need to do too much with weapons. It was just kind of there b/c of the PPV.
> 
> ...



Look ill be honest that match does NOT suck, saying you would take giant Gonzales over that is blasphemy.

THAT SAID

that match was not very good. Look I own every undertaker and Bret hart set, I love both of those guys, but I just cannot get into that match. I've prolly seen it 3 times and each time I haven't made it through without checking my phone at least 2 or 3 times, which is a sure sign a match isn't great. I can't give it anymore than **1/2* because it main evented a ppv a major ppv. If that had been on raw it would probably rate higher. I really wish in could like that match though, because its not like those 2 really had that many matches and I honestly don't love any of them. It's a damn shame.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Which baffles me to intense levels. You see so many gripes for other matches that mean nothing. Yet this match is chalk full of being bullshit and it's never harped on. wtf? Oh boy that thrilling leg work is so engrossing. Best part is when it goes nowhere, yay! I rather watch Undertaker vs Giant Gonzales. I'm deadly serious. that bored me way, way less than this.
> 
> Points for the Scott Pilgrim gif though.


Scott f'n "The World got nothin' on him" Pilgrim.

Dammit Cody, storytelling! In that aspect, every part of the match was kinda spot on. The leg work was iirc for the sakes of Bret weakening the much larger and more omnipresent Taker, which would always comeback, alas Goldberg in the match vs Hogan on Nitro.

Taker/Gonzales I was a nice try that fell completely flat... but I'd give them points for at least trying to tell a story. Now if you were to say Taker/Bossman HIAC though, I'd never take you seriously again


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Look ill be honest that match does NOT suck, saying you would take giant Gonzales over that is blasphemy.
> 
> THAT SAID
> 
> that match was not very good. Look I own every undertaker and Bret hart set, I love both of those guys, but I just cannot get into that match. I've prolly seen it 3 times and each time I haven't made it through without checking my phone at least 2 or 3 times, which is a sure sign a match isn't great. I can't give it anymore than **1/2* because it main evented a ppv a major ppv. If that had been on raw it would probably rate higher. I really wish in could like that match though, because its not like those 2 really had that many matches and I honestly don't love any of them. It's a damn shame.


Nah. Nothing is if the latter 28 minute match is one I can hardly finish. It only sounds bad b/c El Gigante was pretty immobile by that time and isn't a workhorse like Bret. It's to get my point across. I'd take the WM 9 match over Bret vs Shawn Iron Man too.



ATF said:


> Scott f'n "The World got nothin' on him" Pilgrim.
> 
> Dammit Cody, storytelling! In that aspect, every part of the match was kinda spot on. The leg work was iirc for the sakes of Bret weakening the much larger and more omnipresent Taker, which would always comeback, alas Goldberg in the match vs Hogan on Nitro.
> 
> Taker/Gonzales I was a nice try that fell completely flat... but I'd give them points for at least trying to tell a story. Now if you were to say Taker/Bossman HIAC though, I'd never take you seriously again


If that's storytelling it's an awful display. That's the rare side of Bret Hart I hate. Lifeless work coming into a match with nothing behind it. He must have been contacting Dean Malenko on how to work against Undertaker.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished Kurt angle vs Rey mysterio from Summerslam 2002

Wow what a match. For me, Bret vs Owen in WM10 is the goat opening match, I give it five full stars. Nothing has ever touched it and I doubt anything will.

However, Rey and angle just came damn close. If they were given about 5-7 minutes more time, they might have gotten the full 5 stars. That match was so action packed. All the moves were on point, the counters were crisp, and they had obvious chemistry in their transition spots. Rey's front flip senton over the ref was the highlight for me, but pretty much that entire match was just one big highlight. I will grant that there wasn't a ton of psychology or story telling (there rarely is in an angle match unless he's facing hbk) but I still thoroughly enjoyed it. For such a short amount of time I don't know what story they would tell anyway. In the end, this gets ****1/4* from me. Tremendous effort from both guys.

On to Jericho vs Benoit 2/3 falls. Fuck the haters. I can't pass on a Benoit match, especially against Jericho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just like that we're back to agreeing. I seem to be the biggest advocate of Angle vs Mysterio and it's always great to see more. It ties for my personal favorite opener along with Bret vs Owen. You knew that show was going to be grand from that match alone. God damn it's a molten sprint.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah, the direction of Ziggler really sucks atm. I just want this feud with Big E and AJ over asap - because Ziggler's face character is really hot right now and he shouldn't be held down when he's at his best and most relevent in his career so far. I find it funny there's a thread in the Smackdown section titled ''Striking while the iron's hot: Cody Rhodes'' when Ziggler's much hotter right now and they should really be capitalizing on him. 


Choke2Death said:


> They should just do Orton vs RVD for SummerSlam. Neither have any official feuds going on (Orton should have more than just a cash-in) and they have the chemistry to put together quality matches.


I wouldn't mind this. I think I read a post of yours in another thread about this idea and you said you would have RVD go over, but then have Orton cash-in and win the WWE Title that night? Fine by me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Just finished Kurt angle vs Rey mysterio from Summerslam 2002
> 
> Wow what a match. For me, Bret vs Owen in WM10 is the goat opening match, I give it five full stars. Nothing has ever touched it and I doubt anything will.
> 
> ...


Agreed with everything else but that. The HBK matches aren't the best form of storytelling and/or psychology for that... at all. The Taker, Lesnar and Austin stuff though do show a rare, tamed side of Angle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah. Nothing is if the latter 28 minute match is one I can hardly finish. It only sounds bad b/c El Gigante was pretty immobile by that time and isn't a workhorse like Bret. It's to get my point across. I'd take the WM 9 match over Bret vs Shawn Iron Man too.
> 
> 
> 
> If that's storytelling it's an awful display. That's the rare side of Bret Hart I hate. Lifeless work coming into a match with nothing behind it. He must have been contacting Dean Malenko on how to work against Undertaker.


I thought I was the only one who couldn't get into Bret vs hbk ironman. I always thought it was because I'm ADD and could never stay focused for the entire thing. It just didn't seem to go anywhere and no moves or sequences stand out to me other than Shawn almost killing himself on the metal barrier before Bret snatched him out of the air. It just seemed like one long RAW quality match with decent amount of drama at the end. I just got the being the pain set and it has Brock's iron man with Kurt on there, so ill see if they can do I better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not so sure why Rhodes got a thread made. Yeah, he's awesome & but clearly Dolph is the hotter new babyface. Rhodes can continue to build and get momentum. Dolph is there. That's where any striking hot irons should be done.

Not going to lie, at least both are getting their just due by the lot. That alone is putting a smile on my face. Loved those two from the start.

EDIT ~ Bret vs Shawn Iron Man is like my least favorite match ever. Yes, more than Taker vs Bret despite my displays of passion above.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Agreed with everything else but that. The HBK matches aren't the best form of storytelling and/or psychology for that... at all. The Taker, Lesnar and Austin stuff though do show a rare, tamed side of Angle.


The only angle vs hbk match I've seen was their bout at mania, and I thought it had great psychology and told a good story, of angle trying to prove that he is the best but Shawn showing he can do everything that Kurt can but do it better. Although Shawn taking approximately 5 years to finally tap in the end was a bit annoying, that's just typical hbk bullshit you have to just learn to ignore that stuff when you're dealing with a savant.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> The only angle vs hbk match I've seen was their bout at mania, and I thought it had great psychology and told a good story, of angle trying to prove that he is the best but Shawn showing he can do everything that Kurt can but do it better. Although Shawn taking approximately 5 years to finally tap in the end was a bit annoying, that's just typical hbk bullshit you have to just learn to ignore that stuff when you're dealing with a savant.


That was the story yeah, and some of the stuff like Shawn outmatwrestling Angle was cool. So was Kurt working over Shawn's back for a good time. I liked the overall story, but psychology was... Anglanian. From there on, mad spots after mad spots are not exactly psychology you know


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Not so sure why Rhodes got a thread made. Yeah, he's awesome & but clearly Dolph is the hotter new babyface. Rhodes can continue to build and get momentum. Dolph is there. That's where any striking hot irons should be done.


Exactly. 

Oh and slightly off-topic, but I'm so used to seeing your pretty avatars but now seeing the crazy face of Luke Harper as your avatar is uh.. something different. :argh:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sometimes I feel like a change. Repping that Brodie Lee/Luke Harper was a must. Guy is the tops.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle vs Rey from SummerSlam is a wonderful match. Well paced action that goes nonstop with an awesome crowd. It was a complete joy to watch that whole SummerSlam a few days ago. Just great matches one after another.



Nostalgia said:


> I wouldn't mind this. I think I read a post of yours in another thread about this idea and you said you would have RVD go over, but then have Orton cash-in and win the WWE Title that night? Fine by me.


Yeah, exactly that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> That was the story yeah, and some of the stuff like Shawn outmatwrestling Angle was cool. So was Kurt working over Shawn's back for a good time. I liked the overall story, but psychology was... Anglanian. From there on, mad spots after mad spots are not exactly psychology you know



I guess I can see your point, I still effing love that match though. Probably my 5th favorite hbk match ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's about Vengeance 2005 for me with those two. I don't like their other matches. Even if Vengeance did have a dumb finish. Oh well.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The finish to Angle/HBK at Vengeance 05 was so contrived. Although I remember loving the match at the time because I saw it live


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Sometimes I feel like a change. Repping that Brodie Lee/Luke Harper was a must. Guy is the tops.


He throws a wicked big boot and plays he's part in the Wyatt Family a lot better than Rowan. I like him. I haven't seen any of his indy stuff but I've heard good things about his work. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's quite daft. Angle kicks out of Sweet Chin Music. So what does he do? HE GOES TO THE TOP ROPE. :lol

I still enjoy the match. Luckily it was fine to give a pass at the finish for me.

EDIT ~ 




check out this Harper gem, Nostalgia.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I saw that vid the other day when someone made a thread about his big boot. 

The crowd reaction makes that video.

:lol at the size difference as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

I loved how it was quiet following the entrances. Such a perfect moment for that boot to POP the face of Donst. Mind you I bought that show back in 2007 without any knowledge that boot was coming. My reaction was about as insane as the fans who saw it live. :lmao


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

With the shorter hair, beard and the jeans he kind of reminds me of Barrett during those return vignettes. 






I remember all the hype that these vignettes got, but then Barrett returned as his generic self and they continued to book him like shit and it was such a letdown.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kind of a trip seeing him with the shorter hair & beard. Once he got the trucker gimmick he just let it grow and grow. Well, he did have long hair at first, but nothing to to the extent of how he wears it now to complete the dirty look.

Wade Barrett. *sigh* That elbow injury was the biggest blow to his career. Not counting the fact WWE has no idea how to book him. Give him a role. If that's a jobber fine, make him job. At least point him in a direction. Quit this random booking where it feels like he's going to do something, get a championship, then lose all the time. Their booking department is so up & down it's ludicrous.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

the main event for tonite :mark: :mark: MOTYC


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT unk6 and :brock steady GOATing like no other. If they knock their Summerslam match out of the park, I'm going to go as far as to say that this will be the best feud since Punk/Cena in 2011 and one of the five best feuds of the past decade.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Brock wins everything. "Paul, say something stupid." :lmao:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Lesnar killed it tonight. If that's what we're in for for Summerslam... we're looking at a potential MOTY, even above Taker/Punk. We'll see if they can sustain that level of quality for a 20+ minute match.

Also, incoming ***** next week with unk2 vs. :heyman


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit the Lesnar/Punk stuff was amazing again.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CenTon Goats vs The Shield should be great tonight. Don't give a shit about anything else.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> CenTon Goats vs The Shield should be great tonight. *Don't give a shit about anything else.*


Bu... but unk2... and :brock ... and unk3... and :heyman... and unk6... and unk... and unk4 brawl with :brock... and best of the best of the best of the beast and the best in the world. 



Oh, and :heyman sayin' stupid stuff.

AND PUNK!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I just want the match there. ONLY IF the best of the best of the best of the best of the best, the beast and the best in the world, BRRRRRRRRROOOOCK LLLLLLESNAAAAAAAAAAR wins the match.

The feud peaked with the brawl a few weeks ago and now it's just being the same ol' shit until SummerSlam happens.

:brock :heyman3


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Brock is the best feud in years for me. Only weak week was last week which was complete filler. Every other week has been awesome, and I love how they made this Punk/Lesnar brawl different from the first, while still having Lesnar come out on top.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Orton slowly turning heel. I'm liking this.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

In case anyone missed THIS GREATNESS RIGHT HERE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

So glad The Shield didn't get a clean loss tonight. And the fact that they finished the show standing tall is kind of a big deal, imo. They had lost a bit of steam but they're up there taking out main event players again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Real American trumped those pieces of shit the Usos tonight. That's all I care about.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Them not bothering to build up Christian/ADR was disappointing. Sheamus isn't even on the show at this point which I love. Maybe he should call 1-800-FELLA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Maybe that's why WWE was without a good match this week. No Sheamus = no buys.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

He must be healing that bruise, if he was healthy he would have squashed someone atleast.

:mark: @ Wyatts & Kane


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

gotta love how WWE push guys like Sheamus when they aren't ready within six months of their debut, and then when the wrestlers properly established as one of the best wrestlers on the roster they go 'well, you're KINDA over, you can be our pre-show guy, so kids use that WWE app rubbish'.


Or Sheamus is injured or whatever but I am still fucking bitter about Drew and Masters.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Don't get me started on those 2 man


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Masters release was moron worthy and Drew...ugh. Can't believe he's still on the roster floating around. Like literally can't believe it. Hurts my head.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I enjoyed our night of Drew :trout2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think WWE higher ups just went on this forum one day in 2010, wrote the name of literally every member on the entire board at the time on paper, drew the names out of a hat and said 'all right, whoever we pick, just for our fun, we will make as miserable as possible'. Then they picked 'Yeah1993' and searched my posts and released Masters a few months later just based off of that. "Oh shit, he likes McIntyre too, after the EC let's FUCK HIM". "Ooooh how about WE INJURE CHRISTIAN?" "Guys, I was reading Yeah1993's last post - he's a Matt Hardy fan." I think my hatred was also responsible for the Miz getting the title for like six months. 

Good thing I wasn't a Henry apologist back then, I guess. Mark wouldn't have had a chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 - targeted by WWE HQ. You're their victim of choice. This is also why so few Bob Backlund matches have been released on DVD.

I'm gonna get revenge for you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think I wanna marry CM Punk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13FV1GaA20I&feature=share&list=PLl4T6p7km9dba5JgQ-otWzT-ozeecDbW8


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> *I think I wanna marry CM Punk* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13FV1GaA20I&feature=share&list=PLl4T6p7km9dba5JgQ-otWzT-ozeecDbW8


Followed by...








unk2


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Raw had enough good segments to tide me through, but no good matches. 

Man, Punk vs. Brock has been so damn good. Easily the most intense feud of the year, and the only Brock feud that hasn't been hurt by his continued absence. Punk, Heyman, and Brock have all played their parts to a 'T'.

Bryan killed it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So Christian is getting a title shot at Summerslam? Where did that come from? I haven't been following the product much at all but I thought I could safely assume they weren't doing anything purposeful with Christian in terms of being in the main event. I'm guessing Del Rio retains.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> So Christian is getting a title shot at Summerslam? Where did that come from? I haven't been following the product much at all but I thought I could safely assume they weren't doing anything purposeful with Christian in terms of being in the main event. I'm guessing Del Rio retains.


He won a triple threat on SD last week against RVD and Orton. And uhhh... that's that lol.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It'll probably be a triple threat match with RVD getting inserted into the world title picture.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I think I wanna marry CM Punk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13FV1GaA20I&feature=share&list=PLl4T6p7km9dba5JgQ-otWzT-ozeecDbW8


:lol What is this. 



Saint Dick said:


> So Christian is getting a title shot at Summerslam? Where did that come from? I haven't been following the product much at all but I thought I could safely assume they weren't doing anything purposeful with Christian in terms of being in the main event. I'm guessing Del Rio retains.







There you go. Really good match too. It's good to see Christian in the World Title picture even if it's just a filler feud that he has no chance of winning.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

I am going to rewatch ADR vs Christian ladder match i guess. 

By the way does anybody know a good website where you can find an exhaustive list of matches between wrestlers ( i heard of one a while ago but i can't find him anymore)

thanks


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

the frenchise said:


> I am going to rewatch ADR vs Christian ladder match i guess.
> 
> By the way does anybody know a good website where you can find an exhaustive list of matches between wrestlers ( i heard of one a while ago but i can't find him anymore)
> 
> thanks


cagematch.net

(Y)


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

ATF said:


> cagematch.net
> 
> (Y)


Thanks bro exactly what i was looking for!!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Christian/Del Rio sounds so much better than a potential triple threat with RVD. 

I'll watch RVD/Orton/Christian in a bit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No probs 

btw, I'll probably have the WWE only Top 100 Foley list in a few days


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

http://www.wrestlingdata.com

Better in so many ways.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> No probs
> 
> btw, I'll probably have the WWE only Top 100 Foley list in a few days


You're a man after my heart Andrew, it's good to see so much Foley love in here I don't know if modern fans realize just how amazing that man was. I'd put his top 5-10 matches up against anyone not named HBK. During 96-97 he was as consistently great as any performer In the WWE. He had some gems in WCW, especially against Sting and Vader, so I guess those wont be included in your list, but I'm still really excited to see what you come up with.

P.s. since we are doing actual names in here I'm Chris


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie Vs Mysterio from SD Jan 6th 2005: How good is it? I remember nothing whatsoever about it, but since its Eddie/Rey in 05 and NOT their WM match then I'm already guessing its good, but I wanna know HOW GOOD . Just got the Most Memorable SD matches DVD in the post today and that's one of the matches. I read the date wrong when I ordered it and thought it was a match from June when they were feuding, and I obviously didn't remember that one because it never happened .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Eddie Vs Mysterio from SD Jan 6th 2005: How good is it? I remember nothing whatsoever about it, but since its Eddie/Rey in 05 and NOT their WM match then I'm already guessing its good, but I wanna know HOW GOOD . Just got the Most Memorable SD matches DVD in the post today and that's one of the matches. I read the date wrong when I ordered it and thought it was a match from June when they were feuding, and I obviously didn't remember that one because it never happened .



I watched the cage match they had on Smackdown in 2005 not long ago. It was a solid match, but not great by any means. I think if they had been given more time it would be better. The problem with the psychology of this match and a lot of cage matches I see today is, it's not longer built around two guys being locked in a cage left to duke it out. This match and recent ones I see are built around the psychology of the escape. While that can be truly exciting at times (see Brett vs Owen cage match at Summerslam) I generally prefer a bloody battle of wills and guys just punishing each other. Cage matches are meant to trap 2 wrestlers and leave them no choice but to fight, now all anyone wants to do is escape or exchange some week punches straddling the top. I'm with you though, I generally like just about anything Eddie and Rey do, the wrestlemania match not withstanding. Eddie is my favorite performer of all time.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Eddie Vs Mysterio from SD Jan 6th 2005: How good is it? I remember nothing whatsoever about it, but since its Eddie/Rey in 05 and NOT their WM match then I'm already guessing its good, but I wanna know HOW GOOD . Just got the Most Memorable SD matches DVD in the post today and that's one of the matches. I read the date wrong when I ordered it and thought it was a match from June when they were feuding, and I obviously didn't remember that one because it never happened .


That match is worth a watch for the ending alone. It doesn't hold a candle to their June match, but let's be honest, the list of matches that are on par with that match isn't exactly a long one. Basically a pretty nice back and forth contest (what with it being face vs face) followed by a (at least in my opinion) pretty hilarious ending.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Callamus said:


> Eddie Vs Mysterio from SD Jan 6th 2005: How good is it? I remember nothing whatsoever about it, but since its Eddie/Rey in 05 and NOT their WM match then I'm already guessing its good, but I wanna know HOW GOOD . Just got the Most Memorable SD matches DVD in the post today and that's one of the matches. I read the date wrong when I ordered it and thought it was a match from June when they were feuding, and I obviously didn't remember that one because it never happened .


You are just in luck, Mr Super Awesome Bestest Moderator on the forum! I just so happened to have watched the match a few minutes ago!

Rey has a "619 cam" that he brings out and films the crowd and shit while making his entrance. Eddie borrows it and films Joy Giovanni who is the guest bell ringer or something. I remember Joy but don't remember her being THAT hot.

So hey guess what? This match is awesome. Both are faces, but aren't tag champs together yet. Arm work from Eddie early on is sweet, and Rey does a wonderful job of screaming in absolute agony while in holds, as well as selling the arm right up to the end of the match. Love how they essentially begin building their feud here by constantly showing that Rey had Eddie's number. He's constantly countering Eddie and getting a bunch of very, very near falls then letting Eddie know how close he came to losing.

Eddie is his usual awesome self too. He avoids a 619 and runs to the corner and sits there, basically begging Rey to come get him. When he does, Eddie sticks out his leg and BAM... Rey can't have any more kids.

Finish is.... OMG AMAZINGLY FUN. Ref is taken out, so Eddie gets that look on his face and tries to cheat. Rey turns it around on him and :lmao at Eddie doing his best to cover it all up. In the end Rey picks up the win thanks to cheating Eddie Guerrero style. Boat load of fun, some great action, and some tremendous timing from the two that gives us some perfect execution of moves and sequences similar to their HH 97 bout. Stars? I dunno, ***3/4 probably.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can anyone make a card that is made of TV matches only that beats SSlam '02 or WM 19's card? 

:cena4


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Well wasn't my post on that Eddie/Rey match just supremely pointless 

EDIT - @ATF In what way do you mean? Just any eight tv matches from any point in WWE/WWF history?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wilberforce said:


> Well wasn't my post on that Eddie/Rey match just supremely pointless


Let this be a lesson to you! Thinking you can post in this thread and have the post matter!!! 

Card of TV matches better than SS 02 and WM 19? Ummm... yeah.

Angle Vs Undertaker SD 03 - ****3/4
Christian Vs Jack Swagger ECW 09 - ****1/2
Eddie Vs Rey SD 05 - ****1/2
Benoit Vs Orton SD 06 - ****1/2
Cena Vs Punk Raw '13 - ****1/4
Owen Vs Bulldog Raw 97 - ****3/4
Austin Vs Mankind Raw 96 - ****
HBK & Diesel Vs 123-Kid & Razor Action Zone 94 - ****

That's *53* on the CAL SCALE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kinda. A card with TV matches only, from any point in WWE/WWF history, that could legit beat WM 19 or SSlam '02.

Are you up to it? :vince4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok why is hbk/vader ss96 not talked about more ? Its so good a like everything Michaels did in 96 except the iron man. I loved babyface hbk overcoming monster heel type match and this one fit the bill. The off and on stoppage I understand can sway ratings but this is one of the best ss matches ever IMO


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> Can anyone make a card that is made of TV matches only that beats SSlam '02 or WM 19's card?
> 
> :cena4


Without even thinking about it, also presuming there isn't any time limits etc. and it's strictly WWE. I also tried not to use the same person twice.

Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio - 23/6/2005
Christian vs. Jack Swagger - 25/2/2009
Matt Hardy vs. Finlay - Can't remember the date, I want to say July 2007?
John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne - 14/4/2009
DX and The Radicalz vs. The Rock, Mick Foley and Too Cool - 7/2/2000
The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy - Ladder Match - 1/7/2002 (iffy on the date)
John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels - Raw, can't remember the date


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Kinda. A card with TV matches only, from any point in WWE/WWF history, that could legit beat WM 19 or SSlam '02.
> 
> Are you up to it? :vince4


Hbk vs Cena hour long draw in 2007
Eddie Guerrero vs edge no DQ match on Smackdown iin the fall of 2002 I think
Bulldog vs Owen 97 raw
Mick Foley vs Terry Funk falls count anywhere
Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar hour long iron man
Chris Jericho vs triple h for the wwe title in state college pa on raw in 2000

Those matches would easily fill a 3 hour ppv and be better than wm 19 IMHO

If having 2 hour long matches isn't your deal you could replace them with punk vs Cena from raw this year ; and Eddie vs rvd ladder match from raw in 2001 I believe. Since that would negate the Eddie vs edge match I'd add the best Daniel Bryan tv match, I just can't figure which one it is they are all so good.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Ok why is hbk/vader ss96 not talked about more ? Its so good a like everything Michaels did in 96 except the iron man. I loved babyface hbk overcoming monster heel type match and this one fit the bill. The off and on stoppage I understand can sway ratings but this is one of the best ss matches ever IMO


Probably because Mind Games overshadowed it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imma do it based on the WM 19 card itself:

London vs Akio, Velocity 12/4/2004
Owen vs Mankind, Raw 6/1/1997
Trish vs Lita, Raw 12/6/2004
Shield vs Hell No & Kofi, Raw 5/20/2013
Swagger vs Christian, ECW 2/25/2009
Jericho vs HBK, Raw 11/10/2008
Eddie vs Rey, SD 6/23/2005
Cena vs Punk, Raw 2/25/2013
Austin vs Benoit, SD 5/31/2001


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just came across this for the first time. I guess this is the closest we've ever come to Taker breaking kayfabe. It's not over the top, but he gives a little look behind the scenes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I enjoyed the IMY documentary for what it was. Shame they weren't as capable then as they are now at making docs. But I have no doubt when we get a new Undertaker doc after he retires it'll be a contender for best documentary ever :mark:.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I guess I'll throw in my card of tv matches, although it isn't really much of a challenge:

Chris Benoit vs Steve Austin - Smackdown 01
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 05
Matt Hardy vs Finlay - Smackdown 07
Kurt Angle vs Undertaker - Smackdown 03
Christian vs Jack Swagger - ECW 09
Shield vs Hell NO & Kingston - RAW 13
Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry - Steel Cage, Smackdown 11
Edge vs Ric Flair - TLC, RAW 06

Didn't bother putting exact dates because it's obvious what matches they are. That card is without even putting a lot of thought into what my optimum card would be. Also there are no repeats of wrestlers or the year in which the matches took place.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

DOnt understand the love for owen/davey euro title 97. I watched it a couple days ago, and its starts off nice with the whole cool flips and holds and the acrobatics by Owen and davey, but it dies in the second half of the match with just submission holds, maybe its just me


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Just came across this for the first time. I guess this is the closest we've ever come to Taker breaking kayfabe. It's not over the top, but he gives a little look behind the scenes.


It is indeed a good one. Had this on VHS and watched it all the time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I enjoyed the IMY documentary for what it was. Shame they weren't as capable then as they are now at making docs. But I have no doubt when we get a new Undertaker doc after he retires it'll be a contender for best documentary ever :mark:.


I'd pre order that today if possible, even if it's not coming out for 5 more years. He's the one guy that absolutely positively needs the full "For All Mankind" documentary treatment. I want it to be 3 hours long and have everyone interviewed for it. I want it nominated for an Oscar. :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

These little bits of Lesnar and Punk beating the shit out of each other have made me SO much more excited for their match. It absolutely has to be No DQ or No Holds Barred cause they're just gonna beat the shit out of each other like they've been doing the past few weeks. Those chair shots last night, the way Brock tosses Punk around like a rag doll, Punk swinging for the fences against THE BEAST, my god this is gonna be great. 

Despite how random it is, Christian/Del Rio has a chance to be really damn good as well. New vicious Del Rio is quite the joy to watch and we all know how good a babyface comeback Christian can be. 

Why is Kane/Wyatt called a "Ring of Fire" match? Is it not called an Inferno match anymore?

Yeah... I'm pretty excited for Summerslam.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I'd pre order that today if possible, even if it's not coming out for 5 more years. He's the one guy that absolutely positively needs the full "For All Mankind" documentary treatment. I want it to be 3 hours long and have everyone interviewed for it. I want it nominated for an Oscar. :mark: :mark: :mark:


He also needs to go through every feud in his career including the work with the likes of HEI-DEN-REICH and The Great Shit.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HBK/Hogan SS 05 - *******

:hbk


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Christian/Del Rio and Wyatt/Kane have made me care about Summerslam a bit more, but I'm still not nearly as hyped as others for the show.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Since we're talking about TV matches, what, no love for Taker/Jeff Ladder?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

To be honest since we've had Bryan/Cena and Punk/Lesnar announced, I decided I was going to order Summerslam and everything else would just be a bonus. 

Christian/Del Rio could be really good but after watching Smackdown, it seems quite likely that it'll be a triple threat with RVD now. Either way I'd say it'll be at least solid. 

I'm unsure what to make of Wyatt/Kane. As much as I dig the whole Wyatt family gimmick (and am psyched as shit that Luke Harper is on WWE tv), I've not really seen much that suggests that Wyatt is a good worker. That isn't to say that he's not, it's just that since he's adopted the Bray Wyatt gimmick, I can't remember seeing him have a match that wasn't basically just a squash. Either way it's peaked my interest so I guess WWE have done their job there.

Rhodes/Sandow could definitely be good and hopefully they can continue this feud for a while so that both guys can be given something actually meaningful to do for a while. 

So yeh, overall Summerslam is looking pretty stacked, and there's still more to come. Hopefully we get anything involving SHIELD, Henry, Cesaro, Ziggler or Sheamus and I'll be one happy camper.

EDIT - @Sharkboy22 I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it isn't that I don't love that match (because I really do), it's just that I put the card together purposely avoiding any repetition of wrestlers, and I had Undertaker/Angle from Smackdown 03 on there.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Wilberforce said:


> I'm unsure what to make of Wyatt/Kane. As much as I dig the whole Wyatt family gimmick (and am psyched as shit that Luke Harper is on WWE tv), I've not really seen much that suggests that Wyatt is a good worker. That isn't to say that he's not, it's just that since he's adopted the Bray Wyatt gimmick, I can't remember seeing him have a match that wasn't basically just a squash. Either way it's peaked my interest so I guess WWE have done their job there.


You should check out Jericho/Wyatt from NXT if you can, that was solid match if a little sloppy. You're right though, Wyatt's only really had squash matches with this gimmick but it's clear from what I've seen that his character work and psychology should be awesome. I'm not expecting anything particularly good from the Kane match though. Kane can barely move now so that won't help Wyatt much, though this 'ring of fire' stipulation is intriguing. I'm kind of surprised they booked Kane and Wyatt together as Wyatt's first WWE feud, but hopefully he'll win this match and move onto something bigger and better afterwards. Whether than means Kane becomes a part of the Wyatt Family, I'm not sure.


----------



## -Mystery- (Mar 19, 2005)

Wait. They're doing a fucking inferno match in 2013? fpalm

I don't know what offends me more, the fact that they're doing an inferno match or the fact that an inferno match is the result of one small beatdown.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I personally think Wyatt is extremely overrated in all aspects of his work, and I'm somebody who has watched him since the beginnings of the gimmick in FCW. Maybe it's because there has been very little explanation of the character, the gimmick, his intentions etc. or maybe it's just because I don't quite understand it. Granted, he's gripping on the microphone and he can keep me somewhat entertained, but he's nothing great. The only reason I was anticipating the debut of The Wyatt Family as much as I was was because of LUKE HARPER~!. That guy needs exposure, a lot of it. He could be featured in so many great matches with the current roster, it's mindblowing.

YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last thing an inferno match in 2013 does is offend me. More like I want to see that friggin nutty stuff live. Yeah, I'm more than down.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Had WWE themselves said this was an Inferno match? Or are people just taking the ring of fire comment and running with it?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Wyatt tweeted the following so take it for what it's worth

Bray Wyatt ‏@WWEBrayWyatt 17h
Burn, Burn, Burn

The

#RINGofFIRE 

#RAW


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Had WWE themselves said this was an Inferno match? Or are people just taking the ring of fire comment and running with it?


 It's pretty obvious. It involves Kane and it suits the characters of the Wyatt family perfectly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're kind of jumping the gun, but Cole harped on it post-Kane's promo too so it's looking pretty essential. Could always be swerved. They're wrestling at SummerSlam. That much is a lock.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I know them having a match is confirmed. Kane could have been using some metaphor though. I hope they have one but until it's announced I'm not jumping the gun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just finished watching Raw  So SummerSlam this year features confirmed Bork/Punk, Cena/Bryan, Christian getting one more match, the (personal dream match kinda) Rhodes Scholars explosion and possibly an Inferno match that is Wyatt's in-ring debut on the main roster?

Pinch me cause I'm dreaming.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

It might not be an inferno match but there may literally be a "ring of fire" surrounding the ring to prevent the family from interfering


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I agree that it's not confirmed yet but I hope they do have an Inferno match. It's much better than having a normal singles match where Wyatt just pins Kane and leaves the match just like that. Plus, it hasn't happened since 2007 so it'll feel like a new moment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets hope The Shield vs Henry in some form makes it on there too. And RVD. Then it'll look 100% legit. I don't expect Real Americans to make it. If they did...:mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Atm it might be Shield/Real Americans/Usos and Ambrose/Henry, and also Ziggler & Kaitlyn/Big E & AJ, and something like RVD/Orton or whatnot. Bellas/Funkadactyls for pre-show I guess.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Shield/Henry, Orton and RVD is what I'm thinking but who knows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And there is the shitty portion. Sadly the intergender tag is the one that's a lock in the bunch.

Usos look to be back to jobbers. Can't see them at SummerSlam. Thank science.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well AJ/Kaitlyn matches are usually nice, and I got a kick out of what I've seen from the Ziggler/Big E stuff, so it can't be bad I guess.

Triple threat, regardless of your grudges with Usos Cody, should be awesome and you too know that. Shield and Real Americans :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Where the hell has Sheamus been? He could team up with Mizark to take on Reigns and Rollins. If Mysterio gets cleared, he can face Ambrose for the US Title. If not, they could just feed Miz to Ambrose just to get Dean on the card. Add RVD vs Orton and the card should be stacked and full of awesomeness!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I have a feeling that RVD will be included in the world heavyweight title match. He was never pinned in the #1 contender's triple threat match and he has already beaten Del Rio (which is usually enough for a title shot). Vickie or Maddox will probably make the World Heavyweight title match a triple threat at Summerslam.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Miz hosting it better not drag Summerslam down to much.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One worry I do have is the post-SummerSlam stage. Where does the Punk/Heyman feud go if Punkster beats Bork?

Imo, given that they were paid by Heyman after all, I would've had the Shield crossed. Punk/Shield feud... too much mark out for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus is probably healing wounds while he was slated to have no plan for SummerSlam. I say put the reigns back on the workhorse and let him show up. We need him.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sheamus needs a character change though and badly. His goofy fella gimmick is just awful. He can wrestle great but his character drives him down.


----------



## Das Wunderberlyn (Jan 18, 2011)

Rumble 97 - That was actually pretty boring until Bret's entrance.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

some ratings for today so far
show/cena sd feb 09 ****
savage/steamboat wm 3 ***1/2
hbk/vader ss 96 ****1/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Picked up PAYBACK on DVD just so I could have it and give Del Rio Vs Ziggler another whirl, twas magical stuff the last time I checked it out for sure, Del Rio & Ziggler's career performances wrapped up together in a nice little bow. Geting chills in my spine over watching Ryback Vs Cena again, MAYBE IT CAN BE GOOD ().

They better fucking have a plan for Henry heading into the future and that's all I really have to say about that. A tag team with Big Show would be sweet, Henry/Show Vs Swagger/Cesaro or Reigns/Rollins could own in a million different ways. Now that Henry's a face, I'm hoping to see him take on Rollins/Cesaro/Swagger/Del Rio for the title maybe? Knowing WWE though, he'll be jobbing to Fandango or Barrett soon, but OH WELL FUCK THEM.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Christian v Randy Orton v Rob Van Dam - Smackdown (8/2/13)*
To be honest even though this was recommended as a good match I was expecting one of those typically crummy, spotty triple threats we so often get in WWE. This was spotty, not crummy. It was good. Christian's tornado DDT was wicked, thanks in part to Van Dam's gnarly bump for it, then Christian repaid the favor by really flying across the ring off Van Dam's monkey flip. I've never been a big RVD fan and never will be but he was on point here. Orton also looked more motivated and just generally better than I've seen him in a long time. Can't help but mark for the powerslam spot. Also loved Christian's delayed falling sell of one of RVD's kicks. All in all a fun three way. It won't be high on my best of 2013 list but it will be on it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, I forgot who it was that said the Benoit vs Jericho 2/3 falls match at Summerslam 2000 sucked, but whoever you are, I can't disagree with you enough. As the rock said, "that match was a lot of things, but sucks is not one of them".

I'm not saying it was a 4-5 star classic, because it certainly wasn't, but I would have to rate it ***1/2*. The moves were crisp, the psychology was solid, Benoit did some great work on jerichos shoulder, and I didn't see a single botch. There weren't any rest holds, I mean geeze I'm just trying to figure out how someone could watch that and say "it sucks". That was wrestling 101 from 2 of the all time great workers. I really liked the psychology after Jericho tapped to the cross face for the first fall. Instead of getting up and dusting off his trunks and acting like nothing happened to start the next fall, Jericho really sold the shoulder injury and as soon as the ref allowed the match to restart, Benoit when right back to the cross face and tried to get another submission. Jericho won the second fall by doing the older, way cooler version of the lion tamer where he looks like he is breaking the dudes neck. Benoit won the last fall after reversing jerichos roll up and Benoit held the ropes to get the win. Solid solid match from both guys, I recommend watching it if there are any other idiots like me who haven't seen every ppv bout ever, like it seems some of you have in this thread


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I said it sucked. And I stand by that. I hope you aren't one of those people who thinks the main event of SS 00 is good too :side: .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You mean the very MEH encounter between Triple H, The Rock, & Kurt Angle?

Can you imagine that match in 2013 :lol?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't see it as MEH but its "secret internet fan legion" have made it severely overrated.

In 2013, that match? We all lose but I guess I'd root for Hunter :HHH2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm a big fan of that SummerSlam main event. Maybe it's a lesser version of Triple H vs Rock from Backlash (idk, haven't seen that since the night it happened) but it was far from bad. It's a hot atmosphere, things clicked, and it was entertaining. It's the Attitude Era so shenanigans occurring was expected. It's good. You want to know a shit main event from a 2000 PPV? King of the Ring. Yikes. Why did Undertaker have to be in that one? Sad face.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Miz-Axel-Barrett was okay, definitely better than the first time I watched it, but I wouldn't call it anywhere near good considering I don't give a single fuck about either of the guys in the match. Kaitlyn Vs AJ on the other hand? Now that's more up to my speed right there. Best Women's match in a really, really fucking long time. Not exactly GREAT or anything, but it's really, really fucking good. It's a shame that those two & Dolph are stuck with Big E until the unforseen future.

Is it just me, or are they trying to make Daniel Bryan the new Mick Foley in terms of being the guy who looks like he's homeless being in the main event, never really receiving strong booking, but still managing to be super over due to ridiculous levels of talent? I WISH THAT HE'D SHAVE THAT GOD DAMN BEARD. HE LOOKS RIDICULOUS.

& that's the point.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's probably why Vince name dropped Foley last night in that dreadful segment.

ugh, Vince can go die already.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So, who becomes our 2013 corporate champion?

WWE 2013; where Cena & Bryan take a backseat to Vince & HHH's antics.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Miz-Axel-Barrett was okay, definitely better than the first time I watched it, but I wouldn't call it anywhere near good considering I don't give a single fuck about either of the guys in the match. Kaitlyn Vs AJ on the other hand? Now that's more up to my speed right there. Best Women's match in a really, really fucking long time. Not exactly GREAT or anything, but it's really, really fucking good. It's a shame that those two & Dolph are stuck with Big E until the unforseen future.
> 
> Is it just me, or are they trying to make Daniel Bryan the new Mick Foley in terms of being the guy who looks like he's homeless being in the main event, never really receiving strong booking, but still managing to be super over due to ridiculous levels of talent? I WISH THAT HE'D SHAVE THAT GOD DAMN BEARD. HE LOOKS RIDICULOUS.
> 
> & that's the point.



Man I just made a thread about that exact thing today, that beard is driving me fucking crazy. It's actually gotten to the point that it distracts me during his matches, which is dumb because Bryan is the best worker in the wwe right now. Ugh. I appreciate a good beard as much as the next man but that thing is not good, it's fucking heinous. Oh we'll, Bryan could come out in a thong and ass less chaps and I'd still find him entertaining.

On a side note, with how well punk vs Brock is shaping up to be, I'm just dying for Bryan to win the title and have his next program be with Brock. Please wwe, we don't ask for much. Give us Brock vs Bryan. Or atleast Henry and Bryan. Either would work for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> So, who becomes our 2013 corporate champion?
> 
> WWE 2013; where Cena & Bryan take a backseat to Vince & HHH's antics.


Randy Orton. 

d'oh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I said it sucked. And I stand by that. I hope you aren't one of those people who thinks the main event of SS 00 is good too :side: .


I actually wasn't wowed by that main event at all. The crowd was great but it was a very very very mediocre match. **1/2* from me, that isn't main event of the second best ppv material. I'd expect that kinda match to main event a Smackdown. I liked Jericho vs Benoit more honestly. And I will disagree to the death with you sir about that, that match does NOT suck


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Oh we'll, Bryan could come out in a thong and ass less chaps and I'd still find him entertaining.


:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

That made me fucking DIE laughing.

My guess is that due to the ongoing McMahon/Helmsley nonsense that Bryan/Cena ends up going on last when it should be Punk Vs Lesnar.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The corporate champion


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, Danielson going on last is HUGE in establishing him. I want that to go on last. Punk vs Brock can happen on the pre-show and still mean everything. WWE putting emphasis on Danielson & the championship is great.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE 2013.

Where the WWE Title scene goes to DIE.

(That was in response to Orton becoming corporate Champion..... First Rock, then Cena-Ryback, now this?)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

At this moment the level of fuckery as far as match placement went deep enough to make me not g.a.f. anymore. As long as it's a classic and not what every Main Event not named Trips/Brock has been (and on 2nd and 3rd watches I actually enjoyed the hell outta the All Stars MITB's slow but aggressive storytelling) - underwhelming -, i'm good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuckery or not at the end, the bulk of the match should be good with a brilliant atmosphere. Cena vs Danielson have had about two singles matches before and both were good. I can't see this one not being the same.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> The corporate champion


Can't fucking wait! :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Indeed, and it's cool that the WWE has two legit SummerSlam-worthy Main Event matches (Bork/Punkster and Champ/Beard) in the *real* 25th anniversary of SummerSlam - 25th edition is not the same almost at all, WWE.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> WWE 2013.
> 
> Where the WWE Title scene goes to DIE.
> 
> (That was in response to Orton becoming corporate Champion..... First Rock, then Cena-Ryback, now this?)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE has been putting some main events worth to headline SummerSlam over the last year years. Only one that didn't feel big (at the time) was Cena vs Edge. I know I cared about the long awaited Cena vs Orton match in '07. Ironically the Edge match was loads better than the Orton one. I'm talking about on paper appearances only. Then 2008 had HIAC, 2009 had TLC, 2010 had that HOT elimination match, 2011 had Cena vs Punker for the undisputed WWE championship, 2012 had Brock vs Triple H. Now this year has not one, but two mega match ups. It's pretty great to see. SummerSlam remains big and relevant in both kayfabe & reality.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Now they need to put an effort into Survivor Series. It's really not hard. Atm a Team Punk (Punk, RVD or Miz, Henry & The Usos) vs Team Heyman (Lesnar, Axel, Shield) makes sense. Throw in the Goddamn WarGames into it and SS is relevant again.

:vince5


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Maybe it's just me but for some reason I can't see a guy covered in skull tattoos being a corporate champion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Miz & Usos? Heaven's no, we need people to CARE about the matches. :hayley2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Orton is going to need to ditch that thing on his face he calls a beard if he wants to be taken seriously as the Corporate Champion.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The value of the WWE Championship has truly gone up this year after being no more worthy than a toilet paper in 2011-2012. We went through five months of The Miz as champion, hot potatoing of the title in the summer (it felt like 5 different reigns started between MITB and SummerSlam), two boring Del Rio reigns that no one gave a shit about and then the single most boring, torturous year+ reign in history. Now The Rock made the title feel important again and even though the design sucks balls (spinner belt was a million times better, I'm serious) now we're about to get a REAL champion to hold that belt again! :mark:

It's been a good year. :rock4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

pjc33 said:


> Maybe it's just me but for some reason I can't see a guy covered in skull tattoos being a corporate champion.


He just needs to grow his hair out a bit, gel it, and wear a $5,000 suit when he does promos. Voila, corporate champion. It'll be the legend killer we all know and love again.

On a side note, I got into an argument with a buddy at work today on this. Did foley "make" randy orton? I happen to think he did and even randy orton says "I was calling myself the legend killer, but I wasn't really the legend killer until I met in the ring with mick. My program with foley is what set up in for the long haul and made people take me seriously". My friend thinks randy would have been just fine without his program with mick.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> The value of the WWE Championship has truly gone up this year after being no more worthy than a toilet paper in 2011-2012. We went through five months of The Miz as champion, hot potatoing of the title in the summer (it felt like 5 different reigns started between MITB and SummerSlam), two boring Del Rio reigns that no one gave a shit about and then the single most boring, torturous year+ reign in history. Now The Rock made the title feel important again and even though the design sucks balls (spinner belt was a million times better, I'm serious) now we're about to get a REAL champion to hold that belt again! :mark:
> 
> It's been a good year. :rock4


Lol I need another 7 month Age of Orton type championship reign in my life!!!


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> The value of the WWE Championship has truly gone up this year after being no more worthy than a toilet paper in 2011-2012. We went through five months of The Miz as champion, hot potatoing of the title in the summer (it felt like 5 different reigns started between MITB and SummerSlam), two boring Del Rio reigns that no one gave a shit about and then the single most boring, torturous year+ reign in history. Now The Rock made the title feel important again and even though the design sucks balls (spinner belt was a million times better, I'm serious) now we're about to get a REAL champion to hold that belt again! :mark:
> 
> It's been a good year. :rock4


Title's value has been strong since November 20th, 2011. unk2


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> The value of the WWE Championship has truly gone up this year after being no more worthy than a toilet paper in 2011-2012. We went through five months of The Miz as champion, hot potatoing of the title in the summer (it felt like 5 different reigns started between MITB and SummerSlam), two boring Del Rio reigns that no one gave a shit about and then the single most boring, torturous year+ reign in history. Now The Rock made the title feel important again and even though the design sucks balls (spinner belt was a million times better, I'm serious) *now we're about to get a REAL champion to hold that belt again!* :mark:
> 
> It's been a good year. :rock4


:jameson :jameson :jameson



> Title's value has been strong since November 20th, 2011.


Ditto.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> He just needs to grow his hair out a bit, gel it, and wear a $5,000 suit when he does promos. Voila, corporate champion. It'll be the legend killer we all know and love again.
> 
> On a side note, I got into an argument with a buddy at work today on this. Did foley "make" randy orton? I happen to think he did and even randy orton says "I was calling myself the legend killer, but I wasn't really the legend killer until I met in the ring with mick. My program with foley is what set up in for the long haul and made people take me seriously". My friend thinks randy would have been just fine without his program with mick.


Orton would have made it even without Foley because he has the talent. He just got lucky that a legend like Foley was willing to put him over, therefore making his rise that much more memorable.



The Sandrone said:


> Title's value has been strong since November 20th, 2011. unk2


So much that Johnny Ace was main eventing over it. unk2


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Orton is the biggest piece of crap in the company right now, I'd rather see Del Rio be champ over boring fabricated Orton.
Atleast ADR can put on a good match, Orton seems incapable of that now days.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> So much that Johnny Ace was main eventing over it. unk2


And yet Punk still made it worth more than it was from... well, TLC 2009-SVS 2011. DAT PUNK!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton would have made it even without Foley because he has the talent. He just got lucky that a legend like Foley was willing to put him over, therefore making his rise that much more memorable.
> 
> 
> 
> So much that Johnny Ace was main eventing over it. unk2



Nobody ever said wwe creative we're geniuses 

Punks reign was fine, I'm glad someone got to hold the strap for more than the token month or two. He was the most deserving guy on the roster and most people believed him to be a credible champ. Punks not my favorite but I don't have problem with his reign at all.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Orton's last 3 title reigns have been DREADFUL!

The guy is done, he is just leeching off of his past glory.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maple Leaf Muscle said:


> Orton is the biggest piece of crap in the company right now, I'd rather see Del Rio be champ over boring fabricated Orton.
> Atleast ADR can put on a good match, Orton seems incapable of that now days.


WOOOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!

Let's not get crazy here.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> WOOOOOOOAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!
> 
> Let's not get crazy here.


Hey i can't stand ADR believe me, but Orton matches are so bad, it's the same shit over and over, if you prefer fabrication over some solid wrestling be my guest.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Dolph Ziggler vs Chris Master Superstars 5-13-10*

- Wow what a fucking work of art. I'm in love with this match and it still is as good as it was before. Yeah this better be on your 2010 list :lol. Where do we start, I love how Striker puts over Ziggler as a serious collegiate wrestler and Masters as a powerhouse giant. Ziggler shows his aggressive side and punches and kicks Masters in the begin instead of the submission holds we are use to from him. It works in the beginning but then Master regains control and starts to beat the shit out of Ziggler. Ziggler constantly tries to get away from the masterlock seeing as how deadly it is.Using his heel tactic, Ziggler hits the zig zag from behind and wins.

This was Ziggler's best match as a heel and 2nd best in his career behind payback *****1/2*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maple Leaf Muscle said:


> Hey i can't stand ADR believe me, but Orton matches are so bad, it's the same shit over and over, if you prefer fabrication over some solid wrestling be my guest.


Wrestling wise I'd take Del Rio over Orton right now as well. But in every other aspect of talent, I'd take Orton far above Del Rio.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Maple Leaf Muscle said:


> Orton is the biggest piece of crap in the company right now, I'd rather see Del Rio be champ over boring fabricated Orton.
> Atleast ADR can put on a good match, Orton seems incapable of that now days.


Strange, I've been enjoying most of his matches in the past couple of months. The Shield, Bryan, Christian, Del Rio, RVD/Christian triple threat have all been quality matches imo. Maybe some of you are just wired to automatically hate on anything he does.

I'm not gonna argue it anymore. I'll just enjoy all the time he gets on top and rub it in everybody's face.



The Sandrone said:


> And yet Punk still made it worth more than it was from... well, TLC 2009-SVS 2011. DAT PUNK!


Maybe to you, I was turned off to the point of tuning out for several months. I'm more indifferent to him now rather than dislike him but I can never bring myself to say anything good about that horrible reign unless I'm praising a couple of matches here and there. Even my favorite promo from his when he buried Del Rio was before he won the title.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Wrestling wise I'd take Del Rio over Orton right now as well. But in every other aspect of talent, I'd take Orton far above Del Rio.


If Orton wasn't so bad now days I'd take him in a heartbeat, but i can't stand the site of Orton anymore.

He's just a lazy mofo now who fucks up people's careers because of his shitty attitude.

He's shitty in the ring and outside, he is not giving me a'lot to work with.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Del Rio and Orton can both fuck off. Rather see a high RVD or Jeff Hardy as champion for the pure hilarity nowadays..


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Anything Masters related on Superstars is gold. Such a shame they let him go. They were pushing him so hard when he was greener than grass yet when he comes back all refined, they do nothing with him. What's he even up to lately? Last time I checked he was working the UK circuit.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I'd add Christian to the "GTFO list" too.
I was hoping RVD would get the shot at Summerslam as he's the less of two evils.

got Christian/ADR slated as the "piss break" for Summerslam.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think they might add RVD to that match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't get the Orton hate lately. Imo, he's stepped up his game a lot lately ever since working with Bryan. Speaking of Orton, last night I remembered something while watching RAW. Does anyone remember how over Orton was in 2010? His pops were deafening. Last night, however, the crowd was kinda lukewarm. Popped for the RKOs though. But, Orton's face reactions in 2010 were like Bryan's today. The guy was insanely over. I actually quite liked 2010 Orton. 

Also, what the hell is up with the Christian hate these days? It wasn't too long ago that people were bitching about his short title reigns.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't get the Orton hate lately. Imo, he's stepped up his game a lot lately ever since working with Bryan. Speaking of Orton, last night I remembered something while watching RAW. Does anyone remember how over Orton was in 2010? His pops were deafening. Last night, however, the crowd was kinda lukewarm. Popped for the RKOs though. But, Orton's face reactions in 2010 were like Bryan's today. The guy was insanely over. I actually quite liked 2010 Orton.


I don't remember Orton's reactions being quite as big as Bryan's, not consistently anyway, but they were the biggest at the time from what I remember. He still gets one of the best pops of the night generally, usually behind only Punk and Bryan (and some nights he beats one of them or both of them), but last night's crowd kinda sucked for the first two hours up until Punk/Axel, and then woke up for the third hour, but still weren't that hot. Orton's lack of strong reaction pre-RKO on Cena was due to the weak crowd imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't get the Orton hate lately. Imo, he's stepped up his game a lot lately ever since working with Bryan. Speaking of Orton, last night I remembered something while watching RAW. Does anyone remember how over Orton was in 2010? His pops were deafening. Last night, however, the crowd was kinda lukewarm. Popped for the RKOs though. But, Orton's face reactions in 2010 were like Bryan's today. The guy was insanely over. I actually quite liked 2010 Orton.
> 
> Also, what the hell is up with the Christian hate these days? It wasn't too long ago that people were bitching about his short title reigns.


It doesn't matter what he does, he'll continue to get hated around here regardless.

And last night's crowd was shit, nobody got much of a pop during their entrance, not Bryan, not Cena (some boos, though), not Punk (although they reacted to the brawl and his match a bit) and not Orton. But yeah, Orton was easily on Bryan's level of over in 2010. Anyone saying otherwise is biased or has forgotten.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Pretty sure I'm going to Smackdown tapings next Tuesday.. is there something else taped with Smackdown these days? Says 7pm start so idk just wondering


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't get the Orton hate lately. Imo, he's stepped up his game a lot lately ever since working with Bryan. Speaking of Orton, last night I remembered something while watching RAW. Does anyone remember how over Orton was in 2010? His pops were deafening. Last night, however, the crowd was kinda lukewarm. Popped for the RKOs though. But, Orton's face reactions in 2010 were like Bryan's today. The guy was insanely over. I actually quite liked 2010 Orton.
> 
> Also, what the hell is up with the Christian hate these days? It wasn't too long ago that people were bitching about his short title reigns.


I just can't stand his mic work ever since 2009. The slow shit pisses me off and I really don't ever find anything interesting in what he has to say. That being said, from '03-'08, I cared quite a bit.

His matches started to have the same formula each time starting in '11 or so. He's still had some good matches but he's generally not the kind of guy I get excited watching.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Star ratings for *In Your House: Revenge of the Taker:*

Legion of Doom vs Hart Foundation = **
Rocky Maivia vs Savio Vega = *
Jesse James vs Rockabilly = 3/4*
Undertaker vs Mankind = ***1/2
Bret Hart vs Stone Cold = ****

An okay-ish PPV that's saved by the two main events that had some great psychology. Mankind attacking Taker's injured eye was a smart move from. As was Bret Hart attacking Stone Cold's knee throughout the match which displayed strong storytelling. The DQ finish made sense because Hart couldn't lose his first match as a heel cleanly so a DQ finish made sense for both men. Austin won the right to challenge for the title as well. I just love Owen Hart's mic skills though. There was a segment where Bulldog and Owen attacked Austin and Owen is like "we were celebrating our victory and then Austin came and attacked us for no reason". :lmao


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Haven't liked Orton since early 2010 and haven't liked Christan since mid 2009.
They've had their bright spots (Orton/Christian & Orton/Bryan feuds) but it's still the same ol same ol from them imo.

Ziggler/ADR

Payback **1/2
MITB ***1/2
RAW(night after MITB) ***

Can't remember the last time i really enjoyed a match featuring either man so their series of matches was a surprise.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bme said:


> Haven't liked Orton since early 2010 and haven't liked Christan since mid 2009.
> They've had their bright spots (Orton/Christian & Orton/Bryan feuds) but it's still the same ol same ol from them imo.
> 
> Ziggler/ADR
> ...


Your forgetting their main event and smackdown matches which the former is very good


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ADR is a guy that can have some really good matches but boy is he lacking big time in the character department. 

The real work horse is Sheamus though. Man, does WWE need to do something with his character. Although, I gotta admit, I kinda dig the fella shtick. He's just so laid back and happy-go-lucky pre-match but then he just goes into beast mode during his matches. Still, wish he had some more ruthless aggression :vince5


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Going to watch the whole hhh/lesnar series now YESSSSSSS !


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> Going to watch the whole hhh/lesnar series now YESSSSSSS !


Ah yes, the cure to insomnia


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

AJ-Styles said:


> Rumble 97 - That was actually pretty boring until Bret's entrance.


That whole show was one big bucket of underwhelmingness. I'm not even sure if that's a proper sentence. 



sharkboy22 said:


> ADR is a guy that can have some really good matches but boy is he lacking big time in the character department.


I actually love what they've been doing with Del Rio. The whole "I did everything for you people so now I do something for me and this is the thanks I get?" shtick is pretty good for him. Everyone hates him, he kicks people in the head, and I like it.



redskins25 said:


> Going to watch the whole hhh/lesnar series now YESSSSSSS !


Wrestlemania is where it's at, the rest can go away.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly am stuggling to get through their ss 12 match, I use to like it whats going on


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I honestly am stuggling to get through their ss 12 match, I use to like it whats going on


It's tedious, repetitive, and boring and you're finally seeing it!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Extreme Rules > all.

I need to rewatch both SS and WM but the latter was such a bore.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Based on those matches with Lesnar :cena > :HHH


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Thoughts on HBK vs. Austin KOTR 97?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Alim said:


> Thoughts on HBK vs. Austin KOTR 97?


You know what man this may be a unpopular opinion but I dont like it that much. Its completely different to their wm 14 match. Much better wrestling and their both considerable healthy, my problem is its kinda boring and it seems to drag a bit, I remember watching it on netflix and I was fast forwarding some of it.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I've never seen it, was planning on watching later. 97 HBK always intrigues me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Alim said:


> Thoughts on HBK vs. Austin KOTR 97?


Watched it back in March (copy and paste job):

*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels *_(King of the Ring 1997)_

So idk the full story of why this happening, but these two are the Tag Team Champions and I just assume they had this match to see who the better man/wrestler was. They clearly don't like each other too much. Starts out a little shaky. A special olympics kid jumps (or falls) over the rail and it apparently takes 2 or 3 people (also Shawn himself) to walk this kid to the back. Austin wants to actually wrestle the match but Shawn is busy with the kid, which is nice of course. 

First few minutes are a bit of a feeling out process, not sure which route they're gonna take the match. They start kicking it into high gear though and have a really cool sequence of counters and pin reversals on the mat. Austin then takes control and goes into full on heel mode(he's got a LOT of fans in the crowd though, despite him throwing up multiple middle fingers) and starts using the ropes for leverage. He even gorilla press slams Michaels on the exposed concrete on the floor, nice spot there.

Michaels eventually makes his comeback and they start showing flashes of greatness again by going full speed at running the ropes and hitting counters and shit. This match could've been really special had they had a proper finish, but I totally understand why they went the route they did to of course protect both guys and still make it entertaining. Austin stunners the original ref and Michaels superkicks the next one who comes in, after he gets a nearfall on Sweet Chin Music. Earl Hebner then comes out and disqualifies both of them. The match had its average moments but the majority of it was a lot of fun, including the ending. Sort of a forgotten match in the careers of both men. Great stuff.

******


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Interesting. Sounds like FUN

I'll watch the Owen/Bulldog vs. Austin/HBK tag match while I'm at it


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I mean its a good match just kinda dull IMO but my opionion is different then yours. Now hbk/scsa vs owen/davey thats the GOAT tag and maybe GOAT raw match ?

Brock/HHH 2 is a pleasant surprise so far


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm one of the few people on the planet who likes all three HHH/Lesnar matches but Extreme Rules is quite comfortably the best.

Just watched Bryan/Rollins. Am I the only person who doesn't love it? It's really good, don't get me wrong, but I was expecting more because of the high praise I've seen for it.

EDIT:

*John Cena v Mark Henry - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)*
Heard this got mixed reviews. I can sort of understand why but it's definitely getting a positive one from me, due largely to MARK fuckin HENRY. Wow he was beastly in this. The opening segment with Henry destroying Cena was by far the best part of the match. In fact it's some of the best control work I've seen in any match this year. From the bossy steel steps spot to the giant swings to that clobbering clothesline that was almost something other than a clothesline; wig splitting stuff from Henry. At one point Mark produces a completely awesome sinister smile too. And he talks some trash. It's everything you want to see in a Mark Henry control segment. I didn't have any real problems with the story or the psychology. The one real criticism of mine is that the finishing stretch seemed to come out of nowhere. When they traded finishers I thought to myself 'wait, are we at this part of the match already?' The finishing stretch itself wasn't anything special either but other than those complaints I thoroughly enjoyed this. Very good match driven by an impressive showing from Henry.

1. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
2. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
3. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
4. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
6. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
7. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
8. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
9. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
10. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
11. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)
12. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
13. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
14. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
15. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
16. Daniel Bryan v Seth Rollins - Raw (6/10/13)
17. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
18. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
19. John Cena v Mark Henry - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
20. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
21. Kofi Kingston v Antonio Cesaro - Main Event (5/1/13)
22. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
23. Christian v Randy Orton v Rob Van Dam - Smackdown (8/2/13)
24. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Almost done with my DDP project that took me forever to finish and is completely forgotten about. Only ten matches left to show you guys, but I promise that you won't be disappointed (except for Callamus).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> Yeah this better be on your 2010 list :lol.


Definitely. Like that match a HELL of a lot.



Choke2Death said:


> It doesn't matter what he does, he'll continue to get hated around here regardless.


Not at all. If he's fun to watch at any point in the future I'll compliment him.



sharkboy22 said:


> Based on those matches with Lesnar :cena > :HHH


Does anybody still rank HHH over Cena?

Actually that's a little interesting, is their an opponent that had better matches with Trip than they did with Cena? I can only think of Batista. I guess the Rock, too. I don't remember the Cena/Benoits, tbf. Angle?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit most certainly counts, although his matches with Cena are criminally underrated. And it is Benoit that we are talking about; the man had chemistry with everyone.

HHH probably had better matches than Cena with Booker T, Jericho, Undertaker, and...can't really think of anyone else. Not only that, but the Booker T matches weren't even that good. And the good HHH/Jericho matches really happened in 2000. Not to mention that Cena and Jericho had good stuff together. And Cena's future streak match with Taker most likely will surpass any of HHH's.

Orton/Hardy RR 08 is so much better than I remembered it to be.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've got Cena above Triple H. Nothing against Triple H, I just generally like Cena's work. I'll say that Cena's worst matches are worse than Trips' worst though.

Cena/Miz - OTL '11 is one of the worst pieces of crap I've ever seen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm one of the few people on the planet who likes all three HHH/Lesnar matches but Extreme Rules is quite comfortably the best.


Add me to that list of few people. 



Brye said:


> I've got Cena above Triple H. Nothing against Triple H, I just generally like Cena's work. I'll say that Cena's worst matches are worse than Trips' worst though.
> 
> *Cena/Miz - OTL '11 is one of the worst pieces of crap I've ever seen.*


You think that's bad? Try to watch Cena/Truth from CP. It's HHH/Steiner levels of boring.

EDIT: Manhunt For Mankind continues, and even though it doesn't even really officially start, Foley/Umaga from 6/18/07 is buckets of fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Add me to that list of few people.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that does sound like fun I haven't seen that one. I wonder who gets to use the tree of whoa followed by the diving elbow. That was a foley invention that I noticed umaga stole in the couple of matches I've seen from him. Foley probably has 50 moves like that, ones he invented that were blatantly stole by other wrestlers. I even saw john cena do the cactus clothesline in one match, hahaha. Foley admits he stole a bunch from bruiser Brody though so I guess it's all fair. Can't wait to see your list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nobody doess, actually 

Rock n Sock/NAO is pretty OK, good psychology and is fun.

EDIT: Main Event this week features:



Spoiler: Main Event



Shield/Henry & Usos II, and Shield won



Which dooms any and every chance it had to happen on the PPV.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena > HHH. I'm glad more people are coming around to agree with it even if it's just here where Cena is mostly liked and HHH is mostly rated where he belongs.

For opponents, I'll try a few names.

Lesnar: Cena
Undertaker: Cena
Jericho: Cena
Orton: Cena
Punk: Cena by far
Benoit: HHH (then again, Cena never worked with the greatest wrestler ever on a big stage)
Angle: Don't really know
Rock: HHH
Batista: Probably Cena (HHH has the best match by far but Cena's more consistent)
HBK: Cena

Speaking of spoilers, LOL @ Smackdown this week. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imo

Lesnar: Cena
Undertaker: Trips
Jericho: Cena
Orton: Cena
Punk: Cena by far
Benoit: Trips
Angle: Benoit :troll For serious Cena
Rock: HHH
Batista: Cena
HBK: Cena

And some more...

Edge: Cena
Umaga: Cena
Both Hardys: Trips
Sheamus: Trips


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

It's hard to have cena as a better opponent then HHH for Taker. Although I believe they could work an amazing match at WM 30. Maybe even 5 stars? Obviously it would be the storytelling in the match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Interesting discussion.

Brock: The HHH Vs Brock rivalry was fantastic no doubt, but Cena-Lesnar is arguably the greatest match ever so... CENA.
Undertaker: Triple H here by a longshot as I'm a huge fan of the XXVII bout, although they've had their fair share of shit. Not exactly fair to Cena since he hasn't worked with Taker in his prime so, HHH.
Jericho: The Fully Loaded 2000 match is one of the all time greats, but Cena-Jericho is perhaps the most underrated main event series of the last decade, so CENA.
Orton: both are extremely inconsistent and have very few great matches together, but Cena and Orton have BP & NWO so ... CENA.
Punk: Cena & it's not even fair. CENA.
Benoit: HHH & it's not even fair.
Angle: HHH, that's an easy one where I sit.
Rock: HHH obviously, but it's not fair considering how shitty rock is.
HBK: Cena, and it's in a landslide too.
Batista: HHH by a margin.

I like this HHH Vs Cena debate thingy. If you want a biased answer then I'd rather watch a HHH match any day of the week, but if you want me to put 
my game fandom to the side?

I SHALL NOT ANSWER.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I have a hard time rating Cena better than trips as an opponent for Batista, simply because of that kick ass hell in a cell those two had. That match will stand the test of time and is Batista's best match in my opinion, even better than his wm match with taker which I love. As for the rest....

Edge: def Cena 
Jericho: tie, both had classics and both had duds with him
Brock: Cena has the best match with him, trips has 3 decent ones 
Punk: Cena, not even close
Hbk: Cena, again not even close
Orton: draw, I didn't like either of these two as opponents for orton
The rock: triple h
Angle: not sure, haven't seen enough of Cena with him, but I like 2 of the trips angle bouts so triple h
Undertaker: haven't seen a Cena bout with him, liked wm17 and wm28 was okay in my book so triple h


Yea wow I'm gonna have to go with Cena by a landslide in this one. I'm not the biggest fan of his, but no one can deny his history of good to great matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena vs HHH opponents

Batista- I dont really like the HIAC with HHH, so I'm going with Cena
HBK- Cena
Taker- HHH
Punk- Cena
Rock- HHH
Sheamus - Tie I like the tlc with cena and mania with HHH
Benoit- HHH
Orton- I'm going to watch NM today if its good, I'm going with HHH

So HHH wins for me I'm shocked by it too


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I picked Cena over HHH for Taker and Batista because of consistency. The cell match with Batista is a classic but the other two are average at best whereas Cena had LMS, SummerSlam and WM which range from decent to great. In Taker's case, him and Cena never had a bad match while HHH has had the lol-worthy King of the Ring match with Taker. And other than WM28, nothing they've done is what I consider "great".


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd beg to differ Cena's 5 best opponents:

Punk
Shawn
Jericho
Edge
Batista

And H's:

Benoit
Taker
Foley
Jericho
Austin

Imo at least. Dat JeriGOAT on both lists :jericho


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Lesnar: Cena (ER > most things in the world)
Undertaker: HHH (Cena streak match has potential to be legit crazy though)
Jericho: HHH (LMS > any Cena/Jericho match. I can't recall any 'great' ones from them)
Orton: Cena (Both inconsistent but Cena more consistent I suppose)
Punk: Cena (Speaks for itself)
Benoit: HHH (Benoit never really worked with Cena)
Edge: Cena (Edge never really worked with HHH)
Angle: ?? (Not a fucking clue. Been too long since I've watched Angle vs. either of them)
Rock: HHH (No explanation needed here)
Batista: HHH (HIAC > most things in the world)
HBK: Cena (consistency)
Umaga: Cena (LMS > most things in the world)
Jeff Hardy: HHH
Seamus: Now HHH but will probably eventually be Cena if they get another proper match together so...?*

:cena2 *- 6* 

:jpl *- 6*

Guess I gotta go watch those Angle matches to break the tie. 

:angle


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena has No Mercy 03, which is over all Trips/Angle stuff.

Cena wins... again :cena4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

FUCK YEAH SEAMUS!

Speaking of Sheamus, I wish he would wrestle Undertaker at some point.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I can't even think here...Trips/Angle...the Rumble 2001 and Unforgiven 00? Can't think of anything else atm. I haven't seen either of those or any Cena/Angle match in quite some time however. Literally can't recall anything at all about them. Guess I've found something to do if I ever get the time.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Actually, let me bite my tongue on the Jericho result I agreed to from C2D. I'd give Jericho to HHH due to the LMS.

Also, I'd have the Taker/Cena SD 2004 match over any Taker/HHH match, and they also haven't had anything less than a good match yet, with most of them being great. That's my reasoning for picking Cena for Taker. I don't know if I'd put Trips in Taker's top 10 opponents come to think of it. I know for sure I'd have (in no order) HBK, Punk, Edge, Orton, Batista, Angle, Lesnar, and Cena above HHH as opponents for Taker. He might make it in after them though. I'd also probably put Austin above HHH as well, because Taker/Austin's two best matches I'd put above the best Taker/HHH match... and they have about the same amount of shit matches.

Actually, I wonder who I'd put as HHH's best opponents? In no order, Taker would probably be there, Jeff Hardy would definitely be there, Cena's hit or miss but he could probably be there, Rock would definitely be there, Foley would definitely be there, Jericho maybe. Would probably put Rock and Foley in the 1 and 2 spots (in either order) and the rest is up in the air as far as an order.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Forgot about Ric Flair for HHH's best rivals. Every match those two had was very good to great.

Taker/Sheamus? Sounds sweet. Wanna know what's better than that? *Taker/Harper.*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched orton/hhh LMS and it shit on all the orton/cena's so add Orton to HHH list. How could you forget about Naitch ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flair- Yeah, he should be on HHH's list definitely.

Orton- No. One great match, and maybe one or two other good matches doesn't excuse the other half a dozen mediocre-shit matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Just watched Bryan/Rollins. Am I the only person who doesn't love it? It's really good, don't get me wrong, but I was expecting more because of the high praise I've seen for it.


Nope. I thought it was good for what they went for, but it really was a sprint orientated match with a high reliance on eye catching sequences as opposed to a more slow building match built around subtlety and smarter work. I can't really criticise the choice of match they went for given its their first singles meeting in WWE and it was a precursor to the Payback tag match, but they should comfortably have better matches in the future (though I'm convinced this will be more attributable if they work it face/face or Bryan goes heel, as I don't think Rollins has the capabilities as a heel to control a match).


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I always wanted Taker/Umaga and Taker/Seamus. Doesn't even have to be Wrestlemania just wherever. I think both would have been awesome. There's probably a chance for Seamus if Taker sticks around to go 25-0 tbh. He'd be one of the top names in the hat imo. If they can book a weak ass piece of shit for the streak feud like they did this year then they can certainly do it again.

Trips and Orton are only able to work together in LMS matches it seems. The NM one is brilliant, the Raw one is great and the ONS one was on its way to being something real good until the injury happened iirc. Any other time they suck. Cena and Orton have the wonderful BP I quit match which I adore along with SS 07 which I will rewatch later on to see if it still holds up. Outside of that I can't recall much from them either. It's a tough one to call for those reasons. The I Quit and LMS are both equal in my eyes but Trips/Orton probably have the most disappointing match of the lot in Mania 25 so....Cena.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NWO '08 is very good too and I enjoyed the BR '09 Iron Man for the clobbered mess it was.

Speaking of that, how come nobody talks about BR '09? Really solid show, the 4-Way was fun as all hell.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Orton for Cena, I'd take their SS 07 match and the NWO 08 match above the Orton/HHH LMS match.

Taker/Sheamus would be awesome. I could see them having a Taker/Batista type match... maybe even better since Sheamus is a better worker than Batista. I don't know if they should do it at Mania. It's tough to say if Sheamus will become a big enough name at all to really deserve a streak match, but a match with Taker must happen imo. Even if it's just some hyped Raw main event, I'd be all for it. Plus the added benefit of it not being at Mania is we'd have no idea who would win.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shame and fucking terrible that Sheamus won't compete for the next 4-6 months.

Taker/Harper is what I'd jizz for. That has unlimited potential. Of course if not, Taker/Bryan or Taker/Cesaro would be welcome too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Nobody outside Lesnar and Cena are big enough names for a streak match after 28 yet they still went with Punk so yeah, there's no reason why they can't do Seamus at some stage if they want to. The streak feud wasn't even about the streak this year either. It was about Taker avenging Paul Bearer. If they're willing to do it once they're probably willing to do it again but only if he's going for 25-0. Doing Taker vs. anybody not named Cena or Lesnar for Mania XXX would be a big mistake. If they're looking for names to fill the list until they get to 25-0 though then Seamus, Bryan and possibly Wyatt in a few years would probably suit along with Lesnar and/or Cena. It all depends on Taker at the end of the day and whether he wants to end on 23-0 or 25-0.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker should be done at 30 as far as I'm concerned. 30th WM means arguably the biggest event in pro-wrestling history, and there ain't no bigger ending than the GOAT walking off.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

If it's one thing that I like about this thread is that the usual posters here appreciate Cena's work. Can't say that for the rest of this forum. But is it just me, or does anyone else find that the Cena hate is just getting ridiculous and half the times it's unjustified. Take for example this past RAW. Imo, Cena delivered one hell of a promo and probably some of his best since the build up with Punk for NOC last year. Yet, for some reason the fans saw the need to chant boring. I mean, that's just ECW fans' level of stupidity. What irked me more is that they were dead the entire freaking night and of all the times they chose to let their voices be heard, was during a good Cena promo? 

Cena hate has officially reached new levels of stupidity. One crowd started the "boring" chants at him (which I gotta admit was justified that particular night) but this week, the guy cut a damn fine promo. Oh well, there were some ECW chants going that night as well. Maybe that explains the stupidity of it all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd like to see Batista come back at some point, not that he was an all world big man worker like Brock, or even really as good as Cena, but he was a big name and could have great matches with the right opponent. A Batista vs sheamus feud could be special, and a Batista Brock feud filled with cage matches, he'll in a cell, and fca could be awesome too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Cena have four matches that I really consider great or at least very good. SummerSlam 07, No Way Out, Breaking Point and Bragging Rights. Orton and HHH have two _great_ matches and both are LMS. Then some solid stuff like Unforgiven, Royal Rumble, Raw before New Year's Revolution and the cage match at Judgment Day. But none of them are on the level of the four Cena matches.

Speaking of last man standing, I'm surprised they've never done one for Orton and Cena since their No Mercy match got canceled. I have a feeling it would deliver because both men are great in this environment. (Orton with the HHH matches and Cena with the Umaga and Batista matches)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I really liked Cena's promo this week too and thought the boring chants were silly. Yeah, it was a little repetitive since they've gone down this road with Cena perhaps a little too much these past 2 years (w/Punk, Rock, Ryback) but it was still a good promo. Anybody still chanting you can't wrestle in 2013 is a moron. He has an extensive match collection to his name. What Cena lacks isn't matches, it's moments as far as I'm concerned. Given his position as the face of the company, he doesn't have a lot of truly memorable and definitive moments and the one that was supposed to be the biggest moment of all for him got completely shat on. Comparing Cena with the other top names of the day and he's sorely lacking in big time moments that help define and emphasise a legacy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I, too, would welcome a Batista return.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Taker should be done at 30 as far as I'm concerned. 30th WM means arguably the biggest event in pro-wrestling history, and there ain't no bigger ending than the GOAT walking off.


I'm in complete agreement with you there. I'd prefer to see taker put either Brock or Cena over at wm30 after a 5 star classic and walk out with his head held high. He isn't gonna make it to wm40, so there isn't a bigger event for him to retire after. If they don't do Brock or Cena, then put over Daniel Bryan, someone who deserves it and can live off the legacy of ending the streak.

I think I'm in the minority of fans wanting to see the streak end. I just think it would be a massive waste for taker to reitire without putting someone over. He could literally turn any wrestler in the business right now into a legend just by putting them over at mania. I don't know taker personally, but I've get the gist that he's about as respectable a human being as there is in wrestling, I'd like to see his legacy cemented by going out the right way. If I'm taker, I refuse to wrestle my last mania match unless I'm putting someone over. He needs to return the favor of all the wrestlers that put him over on the biggest stage in wrestling, including hbk the greatest performer of all time. He allowed taker to retire him. Taker should do the same to someone else

Woo, sorry for the rant, glad I got that off my chest.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I really liked Cena's promo this week too and thought the boring chants were silly. Yeah, it was a little repetitive since they've gone down this road with Cena perhaps a little too much these past 2 years (w/Punk, Rock, Ryback) but it was still a good promo. Anybody still chanting you can't wrestle in 2013 is a moron. He has an extensive match collection to his name. What Cena lacks isn't matches, it's moments as far as I'm concerned. Given his position as the face of the company, he doesn't have a lot of truly memorable and definitive moments and *the one that was supposed to be the biggest moment of all for him got completely shat on.*


What was supposed to be his biggest moment? 

I myself am confused as to how the hell anyone can say Cena can't wrestle. I liked what JBL said on commentary. "Daniel Bryan is a great wrestler! John Cena is a great wrestler as well" Eat that one smart smarks is what he probably said in his mind after lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Beating Rock at Mania 29.

I'd mark for a Batista return, especially if he revisited the 2010 heel character he had going. Sort of like a pseudo Hollywood Rock type of character would be awesome. He's about 48 or something now though, right? Maybe a bit too old considering he's been gone so long. Guy also seems to have his movie career lighting up too so I'd say the chances are slim.

I don't want the streak to end because WWE isn't capable of handling the fallout the way they should. No doubt if it goes to a young guy they'll fuck it up and if it doesn't go to a young guy then it will go to Cena who absolutely doesn't need it. The only instance where I'm kind of OK with the streak ending is if it results in a Cena heel turn tbh because that's a true game changer. If Taker's going to retire at Mania 30 it's got to be Cena but there's always the chance that they'll use his retirement at 31 to help sell the show. 30 is going to sell itself given the hype of it being the 30th anniversary and all that but Wrestlemania 31, likely with no Rock, Brock and possibly no HHH is going to be a hard sell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Anybody still chanting you can't wrestle in 2013 is a moron. He has an extensive match collection to his name.


Tbh, I thought it was pretty forced. There was barely anyone chanting it and it's like the guy was asking for it. He said "People think I can't wrestle" and nobody chanted anything, he kept saying something of that sort and even put the mic out towards the crowd the way he usually does it and it sounded like 5 adult males were chanting it as if it was out of sympathy to let his promo go through and "prove his point". The one time he's begging for it, they decide to be respectful. :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It seemed like pure apathy combined with go away heat directed towards Cena on Raw this week which is probably the worst of the lot. I'd much rather have people booing me to hell than not reacting at all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ Beating Rock at Mania 29.
> 
> I'd mark for a Batista return, especially if he revisited the 2010 heel character he had going. Sort of like a pseudo Hollywood Rock type of character would be awesome. He's about 48 or something now though, right? Maybe a bit too old considering he's been gone so long. Guy also seems to have his movie career lighting up too so I'd say the chances are slim.
> 
> I don't want the streak to end because WWE isn't capable of handling the fallout the way they should. No doubt if it goes to a young guy they'll fuck it up and if it doesn't go to a young guy then it will go to Cena who absolutely doesn't need it. The only instance where I'm kind of OK with the streak ending is if it results in a Cena heel turn tbh because that's a true game changer. If Taker's going to retire at Mania 30 it's got to be Cena but there's always the chance that they'll use his retirement at 31 to help sell the show. 30 is going to sell itself given the hype of it being the 30th anniversary and all that but Wrestlemania 31, likely with no Rock, Brock and possibly no HHH is going to be a hard sell.


He's 44, younger than taker, triple h, Kane, and hbk when he retired. He could definitely come back in the next 2 years, wrestle 6 or 7 times a year, and make a HUGE impact if he got himself back into ring shape. Too bad I doubt it would ever happen. Batista is one of those guys you don't truly appreciate until they are gone, sorta like edge. At least for me they are.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ Starbuck regarding Cena's (lack of) heat - Yeah, and if anything, that is great news if the WWE decides to finally turn Cena heel (which they should). Bryan can fill the void as top babyface for a bit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ *Beating Rock at Mania 29.*


Well, if that was his biggest moment, I feel sorry for him  Not only was the match itself bullshit, but the aftermath pretty much trolled everyone.

Although the "you can't wrassle" chants are beyond stupid, and the "Cena only knows 5 moves" crap is to the point of incredibly unreasonable.

btw, my reaction if Bryan becomes WWE Champion:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It was gonna happen sooner or later. They've been milking his good guy character for so long that the people who disliked him or his character would eventually just give up on booing him and focus on something else. I know I care about him way less now than I ever have. I don't hope for a heel turn anymore, I don't expect it and I'm this close to saying I don't care. All I really care about now is when he participates in a good match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

All these sponsorship deals Cena is racking up atm are worrisome for a heel turn ever happening. I think Vince will gladly send Cena out there to crickets so long as he has the money rolling in from Fruity Pebbles, Capri Sun, Doritos and whatever the hell else he's signed on to. 

Cena beating Rock at Mania 29 was clearly supposed to be his BIG moment and the biggest win of his career. He gets beat at 28 and goes on his road to redemption, winning the Rumble and steam rolling everything in his path, including Rock, to win the title for the first time in 2 years. Turned out to be a bit of a disaster.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Cena beating Rock at Mania 29 was clearly supposed to be his BIG moment and the biggest win of his career. He gets beat at 28 and goes on his road to redemption, winning the Rumble and steam rolling everything in his path, including Rock, to win the title for the first time in 2 years. Turned out to be a bit of a disaster.


Still could've been a bigger WM travesty :HHH2 rton


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Heels can still do sponsorship shit outside of TV. Idk how big of an impact that would make. Plus, they'd likely gain other sponsorship opportunities w/Bryan.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena has had so many big moments in the WWE which is why WWE fans think it's unnatural and forced from WWE's behalf. When you compare Cena's big moments with guys like HBK, Rock, CM Punk, Benoit, Orton and etc. then he's had so many that it just doesn't feel special anymore. It's not something you will look back into his career and think "WOW! what a memorable moment". I can think of the post-Lesnar match speech where he celebrated like it was his biggest victory but even that was bullshit due to what happened in the very next night.

2013 is his greatest year as well. Winning the Rumble, getting his revenge on Punk and Rock and having a long title reign.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Jeff Hardy vs Trips from NM 08 - ****
I really like this match. Built on the fact that Hardy can't win the big one. I don't get why they don't use this angle more these days. I thought they made Jeff legit with it. Jeff Hardy did have a pretty good run and I marked for him pretty hard around this time . Hunter capitalizing and working the back where Hardy crashed and burned was good work. He controlled the match like you would expect. The crowd was really into this match too. Perfect finish with Jeff coming oh so close and keep the crowd wanting him to finally get the title at Armageddon..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> If it's one thing that I like about this thread is that the usual posters here appreciate Cena's work. Can't say that for the rest of this forum. But is it just me, or does anyone else find that the Cena hate is just getting ridiculous and half the times it's unjustified. Take for example this past RAW. Imo, Cena delivered one hell of a promo and probably some of his best since the build up with Punk for NOC last year. Yet, for some reason the fans saw the need to chant boring. I mean, that's just ECW fans' level of stupidity. What irked me more is that they were dead the entire freaking night and of all the times they chose to let their voices be heard, was during a good Cena promo?
> 
> Cena hate has officially reached new levels of stupidity. One crowd started the "boring" chants at him (which I gotta admit was justified that particular night) but this week, the guy cut a damn fine promo. Oh well, there were some ECW chants going that night as well. Maybe that explains the stupidity of it all.


Those threads about Cena's wrestling ability always end up being cringeworthy with a bunch of people trying to act like he's never had a good match, let alone fantastic ones.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cena is only good as his opponent is. He's never going to be a guy like Bret, HBK, Benoit that can wrestle a broomstick and make it look good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't Cena have a decent match w/Khali? That's saying something imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think I found the real reason why everyone hates Cena:






In a matter of revenge, Triple H passed the shovel to the fans after Cena became a star :HHH2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alim said:


> Cena is only good as his opponent is. He's never going to be a guy like Bret, HBK, Benoit that can wrestle a broomstick and make it look good.



That's kinda true, but in no way does that mean he sucks like some people say. He'll carry his end if you carry yours, that's a lot better than the Miz can manage haha. There is only 1 hbk, Benoit, Eddie g., Jericho, flair, hitman, etc. for a reason. Those guys were all time greats. If wrestling ability dictated your place on the card, Cena would be a lifetime mid to upper mid carder. That's not an insult its a fact.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wish wrestling abilities dictated placement on card. Things would have been much better that way.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Alim said:


> Cena is only good as his opponent is. He's never going to be a guy like Bret, HBK, Benoit that can wrestle a broomstick and make it look good.


I agree with this. There's a reason why Cena's best matches have come with guys like HBK, Punk and Lesnar, who are all fantastic professional wrestlers. 

When Cena had the match with Khali that I think TLK is on about at Judgement Day 2007, it was one of the shortest matches on the show and was unspectacular. It was good for a Khali match, but very forgettable for a professional wrestling match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> That's kinda true, but in no way does that mean he sucks like some people say. He'll carry his end if you carry yours, that's a lot better than the Miz can manage haha. There is only 1 hbk, Benoit, Eddie g., Jericho, flair, hitman, etc. for a reason. Those guys were all time greats. If wrestling ability dictated your place on the card, Cena would be a lifetime mid to upper mid carder. That's not an insult its a fact.


Given that you said 'ability', then guys like Davey Richards would be Main Eventers :vince4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Given that you said 'ability', then guys like Davey Richards would be Main Eventers :vince4


I dont watch much ring of honor so you lost me on that comment haha. The only ROH matches I've ever seen are the 3 matches between punk and Somoa joe back around 2005. 


I love the great workers as much as anyone but that shouldn't be the only factor dictating your spot on the card. We are just fortunate that the best worker currently in the wwe is also the most entertaining (Daniel Bryan) and will be wrestling for the wwe championship.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You never watched Davey Richards? Oh how I envy you.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't even mind Davey Richards... :angel

Edit: 2011 and on Davey Richards isn't great, but I quite like 2006-2009 Davey Richards


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never seen a Davey Richards match tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The only Davey Richards footage I remember seeing is him nearly killing Paul London on the apron and landing with his feet on his throat or something. To his credit, he did the throat slash gesture right before the jump and went in for the kill.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont even know who davey richards is
--

I agree to extent that Cena is as good as his opponent in the ring like someone said, but HHH has made a living off that so I guess it doesn't matter


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Davey Richards is a fantastic talent with a piss-poor attitude. Lad could've worked his way to a developmental contract with WWE at numerous points in his career but his attitude has always let him down.

Just been watching Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind from IYH: Mind Games and man, what an underrated match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't think that match is underrated. It gets near-universal praise. Most people rate it ****3/4-*****.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea it gets alot of praise and completely warranted, hbk/vader is criminally underrated.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK's tantrum elevates that match for me (assuming you're referring to their SummerSlam match).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't say HBK/Vader is underrated either. Might not get talked about on a daily basis but gets plenty of love usually. Haven't seen in it in about 3 years, don't remember much about it at all other than it didn't make my top 100 WWF/E matches list . Which wouldn't mean its bad or anything lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

All I remember is that it got restarted multiple times and HBK changed directions in MID-AIR because Vader is a fucking moron. :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It does but I can see why ppl are swayed away from the match because of the off and on stoppage at the end. Still a incredible match and the tantrum only adds to it.

@tlk idk if it was you but I remember someone asked why it was cool to hate hbk/angle wm 21 and I said because of shawn taking the anklelock at the end . You laughed but someone on here recently said that's the reason the hate it so lol I wasnt making that up


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao Yeah, that was me who asked. HBK sitting in the Ankle Lock for like 5 minutes was borderline ridiculous, but it wasn't enough to ruin the match for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Angle WM definitely has its flaws, but I fucking LOVED IT on my recent re-watch for my WM reviews. Not a ***** classic by any means but still incredible, something I didn't think I'd be saying before I watched it again. I was expecting to hate it and lower my rating down like crazy lol.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Never seen a Davey Richards match tbh.


You lucky sod.




















Definition of a man with unrivalled athleticism and technical ability but who for some reason is seemingly incapable of putting into a logical and structured manner. He's absolute twoddle.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Do people hate the Vengeance rematch, too?

edit :woolcock


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao yea I somebody brought it up and another said that the reason they hate it and you were the first person I thought of :lol

hbk/angle wm 21 is a very interesting match, reason I dont like it is because Angle spamming the anlkelock and not a big fan of too much mat wrestling but to each is own.

hbk/vader -I just watched it two days ago and its still very good, just the stoppings of the match bothers me a tad


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Davey Richards: Kurt Angle of the Indies. And not the good Kurt Angle who wrestled Undertaker and Steve Austin. The bad Kurt Angle who wrestled Chris Benoit and Jeff Hardy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Do people hate the Vengeance rematch, too?


No, but I see a lot of hate for the finish. Haven't seen it in a long time so I have to refresh my memory on why it was considered dumb for Angle to go to the top rope.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Davey Richards: Kurt Angle of the Indies. And not the good Kurt Angle who wrestled Undertaker and Steve Austin. The bad Kurt Angle who wrestled Chris Benoit and Jeff Hardy.


For a man who is an advocate of intensity I'm pretty sure he'd be impressed with the intensity in which I'd love to see him vaporized by the power of a thousand suns.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance rematch is better imo, though with my love for their WM match increasing I'd have to watch both back to back or something. Finish is retarded shit though .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not all of "the bad Kurt Angle" was actually bad - the Judgment Day '01 match against Benoit was imo fucking awesome. Just a great story told there, and psychology wasn't terrible either. I also enjoyed WM 17 and Unforgiven '02. The rest... ugh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hated JD with Angle/Benoit. I'm a fan of their WM 17 and BL 01 matches though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Royal Rumble 2003 rules.

Come at me! :kurt


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Royal Rumble 2003 rules.
> 
> Come at me! :kurt


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm a big big fan of hbk vs angle at wm21. I understand how hbk sitting in the ankle lock for what seems like 3 years but is actually 3 minutes at the end can turn some people off, and the psychology of some of the moves doesn't make a ton of sense, but none of that stuff kept me from thoroughly enjoying it. It gets ****1/2* from me. I wish angle woulda just German suplexed hbk from the apron through the table. If it didn't kill hbk in the process it would have been a historically awesome high spot. 

I'm in the middle of Summerslam 2001 and it has been pretty solid so far but not nearly as good as 2002 which i watched last night. That's the new GOAT Summerslam for me, even if Brock vs rock is a little overrated IMHO. I'll watch Austin vs angle next and write ups review.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


>


Dude I just brought the boogeyman up in a conversation I had about the biggest busts/dumbest gimmicks in wwe history. Nobody tops the boogeyman for dumb gimmicks, unless you wanna go with the repo man:side:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I'm a big big fan of hbk vs angle at wm21. I understand how hbk sitting in the ankle lock for what seems like 3 years but is actually 3 minutes at the end can turn some people off, and the psychology of some of the moves doesn't make a ton of sense, but none of that stuff kept me from thoroughly enjoying it. It gets ****1/2* from me. I wish angle woulda just German suplexed hbk from the apron through the table. If it didn't kill hbk in the process it would have been a historically awesome high spot.
> 
> I'm in the middle of Summerslam 2001 and it has been pretty solid so far but not nearly as good as 2002 which i watched last night. That's the new GOAT Summerslam for me, even if Brock vs rock is a little overrated IMHO. I'll watch Austin vs angle next and write ups review.




SS 02 is indeed GOAT: 

Angle/Mysterio **** GOAT opener

Edge/Guerrero ***1/2

RVD/Benoit ****

Flair/Jericho ***

HBK/HHH ****1/2

Brock/Rock ****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Dude I just brought the boogeyman up in a conversation I had about the biggest busts/dumbest gimmicks in wwe history. Nobody tops the boogeyman for dumb gimmicks, unless you wanna go with the repo man:side:


Well C2D said come for him after he admitted to enjoy the pile of monkey piss that is Angle/Benoit RR, so now Boogeyman's comin' to gethim!

*WORMS!*

:hayley2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll just do to the Boogeyman what Donald Trump did at Wrestlemania. *insert :trump*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah? How you escape this then:








:cena :cena2 :cena3 :cena4 :cena5


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

some guy in the wwe section just told me Edge is a better wrestler than RIC Flair :lmao :lmao Cal I know you hate when we talk about that section up here but what is this world coming too


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Do people hate the Vengeance rematch, too?
> 
> edit :woolcock


Even when I liked the Mania match I hated this one. Now I don't like either and Angle's match with Marty Jannetty is legit way better than any of them. Angle/Jannetty is actually really awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So many things to discuss.

Another guy we didn't talk enough about in the Cena/HHH debate was Big Show. For me, HHH had far better chemistry with Big Show than Cena did. I don't think HHH and Big Show ever had a bad match against each other. Cena had some good stuff with Big Show (WM XX, JD 09, RAW 09), but then there are some overrated or otherwise terrible matches in there as well (NWO 12, SD 09, ER 09).

Cena's promo on RAW was kinda similar to many of his other recent promos. If you looked at it from the perspective of Cena being a face, that promo was horrid. No questions asked. If you looked at it as a heel Cena downplaying Bryan's hard-earned accomplishments, then it was pretty good. Of course, Cena didn't exactly address many of Bryan's points and the act of spinning Bryan's love for wrestling into a bad thing was downright disgusting, but I guess that's what we were supposed to get out of it. Cena is a douche (in kayfabe of course) that deep down inside is jealous of Bryan stealing his contingency from him.

Thank goodness Batista is gone! Good riddance to bad rubbish. One of the worst main event faces I have ever seen. His heel run in 2010 was the only thing good about him, and even then he still sucked as a wrestler. If he does return, it should only be to put over :dazzler via submission.

The streak should stay intact. No debate needed. In theory, it may seem that it will put over a wrestler, but in practice it will just drive fans away from the product.

Cena has had tons of big moments and moments that were supposed to be big iconic moments, but when you are unable to truly get the fans to love you, then it is only normal for many of those big moment attempts to fail. But that makes Cena unique in the grand scheme of things.

If wrestling ability determined status, then we would have 2004/SD 2003. Come to think of it, that sounds pretty damn awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Even when I liked the Mania match I hated this one. Now I don't like either and Angle's match with Marty Jannetty is legit way better than any of them. Angle/Jannetty is actually really awesome.


I remember Angle/Jannetty being great. Gonna need to track that down.

And yeah, I always wished Angle had German'd HBK off the apron through the table as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ok, unpopular opinion alert

Austin vs angle from SS01 > Brock's vs rock SS02

It's true, it's true.

Discuss

I have Austin/angle at ****1/4* and Brock vs rock ***3/4*

Who cares if the ending is stupid, Austin vs angle is just the better match all the way through


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pretty sure everyone here prefers Austin/Angle to Rock/Brock, myself included.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Ok, unpopular opinion alert
> 
> Austin vs angle from SS01 > Brock's vs rock SS02
> 
> ...


Not unpopular at all. Others feel the same way and agree with that correct statement of yours. Austin/Angle is a top three Summerslam match. Brock/Rock is barely even the second best match of its show (albeit the GOAT show).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Here's a real unpopular opinion:

Rock/Bork IS the SSlam '02 MOTN, as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd agree with Rock/Brock as MOTN for SS 02. Benoit/RVD and Angle/Rey are close though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Another guy we didn't talk enough about in the Cena/HHH debate was Big Show. For me, HHH had far better chemistry with Big Show than Cena did. I don't think HHH and Big Show ever had a bad match against each other. Cena had some good stuff with Big Show (WM XX, JD 09, RAW 09), but then there are some overrated or otherwise terrible matches in there as well (NWO 12, SD 09, ER 09).


Agreed. Show is one of Hunter's best opponents.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit/RVD is such an awesome match. The triple Northern Lights are something else. It would have been even better if they had a crowd like Angle/Mysterio, though.

Any thoughts on their Raw match in July when Benoit won his fourth IC title? Almost as good imo.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Angle/Mysterio GOAT opening match.... True or false?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Angle/Mysterio GOAT opening match.... True or false?


False. Owen Vs Bret WM 10 .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> False. Owen Vs Bret WM 10 .


This. Then it's Bryan/Ziggler BR, and then Angle/Rey. Imo at least.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Callamus said:


> False. Owen Vs Bret WM 10 .




That opened? Fuck me. That needs a rewatch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Best PPV opener this year? Without giving it too much thought I'm assuming it has to be The Shield's WM match. Can't really remember what else opened. Barrett/Miz/Axel was pretty good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Am I the only one who hasn't seen Bret/Owen?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SD MITB was the best opener this year and it's by a landslide.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ I'd probably agree with that.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

TLK, seems like you have been missing a lot of classics lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MITB easily.

Best main event is Lesnar/HHH followed by MITB. MITB was easily PPV of the year. DAT ORTON WIN! :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually dont like ziggler/bryan br 10 believe it or not

I still havent ever seen angle/austin ss01


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Am I the only one who hasn't seen Bret/Owen?


Quite possibly. Still love you though. 



ATF said:


> SD MITB was the best opener this year and it's by a landslide.


Right you are. Knew I was forgetting something.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> MITB easily.
> 
> Best main event is Lesnar/HHH followed by MITB. MITB was easily PPV of the year. DAT ORTON WIN! :mark:




Probably, that's not saying much though. PPVS have been a big disappointment this year. I have very high hopes for summerslam though. 

Who else thinks they should do Orton/RVD for summerslam? You can't have them off the card and it looks like they'd have great chemistry.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hahaha wow I guess I misread what you all were saying, I thought I remember in the old thread how everyone was saying SS02 was the GOAT summerslams and Brock vs Rock was the goat SUmmerSlam match. Oh we'll hahaha, that angle Austin bout kicked all kinds of ass I hadn't seen it since it aired live and I was only 14-15 then.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm surprised by how lacking the PPV main events have been. HHH/Lesnar III is the only one that really delivered. Guess that's what happens when The Rock is in three of them.



redskins25 said:


> I actually dont like ziggler/bryan br 10 believe or not


Why not?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> TLK, seems like you have been missing a lot of classics lol


Yeah, I'm quite the wrestling fan enigmna. I've seen countless matches in my 25 years as a fan, but I've missed a few gems here and there for sure. For instance, I basically missed the entire 2001-2003 period, including the invasion. Need to start catching up on some of that stuff.



Saint Dick said:


> Quite possibly. Still love you though.


<3 All that matters.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm surprised by how lacking the PPV main events have been. HHH/Lesnar III is the only one that really delivered. Guess that's what happens when The Rock is in three of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?


From what I remember its just Ziggler appling holds and Bryan breaking out of them only to be put back into them and then at the end Ziggler gets frusrated and Bryan gets the roll-up


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I'm quite the wrestling fan enigmna. I've seen countless matches in my 25 years as a fan, but I've missed a few gems here and there for sure. For instance, I basically missed the entire 2001-2003 period, including the invasion. Need to start catching up on some of that stuff.


I hear ya.

Youtube surprisingly has had quite the resurgence in a lot of the material from those years you mentioned. If you ever get the itch to catch up, its quite the joy sometimes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Am I the only one who hasn't seen Bret/Owen?


Watch it. Right meow. That is such a fantastic match, it gets the full ***** from me. It would have easily stole the show if hbk vs razor in a ladder match hadn't wowed the world with something they had never seen before. Bret vs Owen is a wrestling purists dream match. Technically sound, great psychology, flowed really well, and told a great story. Neither wrestler carried the other, Owen more than held his own against the hitman. He plays the role of the jealous arrogant obnoxious little brother to a T, and lawlers commentary really puts it over the top. It's the best opening match ever, followed by angle vs Rey IMHO. Bret and Owen had several classic battles but they never topped the perfection that is their wrestlemania x bout.

I've prolly seen it ten times and it never gets old.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp, here's the start of the Top 10 DDP matches in my project that has lost all its momentum. Worth a shot to give it some closure though.

*TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*

Here are #20-11 if anybody is wondering:



Spoiler: last10



http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18657002-post13849.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18492034-post13378.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/20987321-post18635.html

#20: w/ Chris Benoit vs. Raven/Saturn (2/19/98) 
#19: Vs. Kanyon/Jeff Jarrett (Superbrawl 01) 
#18: Vs. Chavo Guerrero (Fall Brawl 96)
#17: Vs. Eddy Guerrero (Starrcade 96)
#16: w/ Kanyon vs. Benoit/Saturn (GAB 99) 
#15: Vs. Johnny B. Badd (World War III 95) 
#14: Vs. Chris Benoit (2/5/98)
#13: Jersey Triad vs. Benoit/Saturn (Bash At The Beach 99)
#12: vs. Goldberg (4/19/99)
#11: Vs. Bret Hart (10/26/98)


*10. Vs. Raven (Spring Stampede 1998)*










A feud that was so heated and so popular that it even went as far as to be featured on MTV. And this was just for the United States title. DDP, the ultimate face, faces off against the heavily hated Raven that physically stole Page’s title belt away from him without earning it. Page being the resilient never-say-die person that he is, takes the fight to Raven while Raven wants to escape from the struggles of the squared circle. Both guys go all around the arena (and I mean ALL around the arena). Love how the “spots” in this match were not set up or pre-orchestrated in any way as it made everything feel like an organic, natural brawl. On top of that, these guys are both top tier bumpers/sellers, so every bit of exaggeration from weapon shots and such made everything even more painful. This is more of a “fun” kind of brawl, but it is one of the best ones that you will see.

*9. Vs. Sting (3/23/98)*










I can’t believe it took so long, but this was DDP’s first ever WCW World Heavyweight Championship opportunity of his career. Give it to WCW to take a long time to give someone a world title shot even after they main evented multiple PPVs, but it at least created a sense of urgency and prestige here. This match was structured similar to a “clash of the titans” sort of match, a la Batista/Cena Summerslam 2008 if you want a comparison. Since it is a television match, it isn’t very long, but outside of one rest hold, it is full of big bombs and shots.

*8. Vs. Bret Hart (8/17/98)*










The greatest DDP match that all of you have never seen. Maybe even the best Bret match you definitely have never seen. This happens very early in the DDP/Bret US Title feud that nobody ever talks about for some unknown reason. Big match feel here for a well-built feud that began with one of the best sub-five minute matches of all-time a few months ago. It’s payback time for DDP as he destroys Bret on the outside to begin the match. 

Even though Bret is the greatest technician of all-time, he chooses to cooperate with Page to make a brawl-heavy bout to sell the intensity of the feud. Bret knows how to play dirty in a match and draw heat as a result of it. As Bret takes full control of the match after a low blow, Page continues to throw his fists even when he cannot stand and kick out of every Bret Hart pinfall. Bret is my all-time favorite wrestler, but even I had to mark for DDP here when he wills himself to continue fighting. And with a guy like DDP, you know that it just takes one second for him to get you. Not going to spoil the ending, but the finish of this match is the best that I have ever seen of its kind. If you want to watch a match with a strong face/heel dynamic that will put you into mark mode, this is the match for you.

*7. Vs. Chris Benoit (Superbrawl 1998)*










Benoit has had millions of guys in his career that he developed great chemistry with, so it is not a surprise that he has many good matches with DDP. I will say though that as much as Benoit pushes Page to be the best that he is, Page does the same with Benoit. If you guys want a face/face match/feud that isn’t sissified and stupid, please do yourself a favor and watch this match. Two different kinds of faces: Page, the people’s champion whose motives are akin to that of his followers, and Benoit, the crippler that is all about business and doing what is best for him. We see a handslap at the beginning that signifies the respect that these two competitors have, but this is no ordinary wishy-washy Cena/Rock friendship garbage respect; this is competition and this is two guys at their best fighting for the then-prestigious United States Title.

Such a physical match here (very good sign for Orton/Benoit fans) with stiff shots and “struggling” matwork. Everything from the psychology to the selling to the buildup of the different parts of the match are on point here, which is expected from two masters of structuring matches. Lots of turnabout and trashtalking here which leads to this going from a well-worked wrestling match to a fight. One of those special matches where everything is done right while there is little to nothing that you could pick out as a flaw. Not a match between a makeshift face and a heel, but a match between a man and another man.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> Watch it. Right meow. That is such a fantastic match, it gets the full ***** from me. It would have easily stole the show if hbk vs razor in a ladder match hadn't wowed the world with something they had never seen before. Bret vs Owen is a wrestling purists dream match. Technically sound, great psychology, flowed really well, and told a great story. Neither wrestler carried the other, Owen more than held his own against the hitman. He plays the role of the jealous arrogant obnoxious little brother to a T, and lawlers commentary really puts it over the top. It's the best opening match ever, followed by angle vs Rey IMHO. Bret and Owen had several classic battles but they never topped the perfection that is their wrestlemania x bout.
> 
> I've prolly seen it ten times and it never gets old.


I agree with all of this. Also, I was just reading a summary of a Sean Waltman shoot, and he said that most people in the locker room didn't think that Owen would do well in that whole main event feud.

That's interesting, because Bret also wrote in his book that Vince & Pat Patterson were hesitant to go with Owen, and that Vince had actually wanted Bruce to play that part, not Owen. Bret had to talk them into using Owen instead.

It's weird that a lot of people didn't seem to have faith in Owen, despite his obvious talents. Maybe it was a drive thing, or something.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Trying to find Cesaro/Sheamus (x2), Cesaro/Zayn (x2) and Cesaro/Ziggler. Someone help me.



redskins25 said:


> From what I remember its just Ziggler appling holds and Bryan breaking out of them only to be put back into them and then at the end Ziggler gets frusrated and Bryan gets the roll-up


I remember it being great.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Speaking of Cesaro/Zayn, has the supposed 2/3 falls match aired yet?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Trying to find Cesaro/Sheamus (x2), Cesaro/Zayn (x2) and Cesaro/Ziggler. Someone help me.


Cesaro/Sheamus I
Cesaro/Sheamus II
Cesaro/Zayn I
Cesaro/Zayn II
Cesaro/Ziggler

You're welcome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> *7. Vs. Chris Benoit (Superbrawl 1998)*


Think I'm gonna watch this. Good way to become familiar with DDP and I can never have enough Benoit matches in my life.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cesaro is the fuckin' man.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Cesaro/Sheamus I
> Cesaro/Sheamus II
> Cesaro/Zayn I
> Cesaro/Zayn II
> ...


You sir are a champion amongst men. Thanks bro.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Didn't Cena have a decent match w/Khali? That's saying something imo.


I know this discussion was like 5 hours ago but I went out for a while, so I'm just browsing through what I missed. To add to this, let's not forget Cena's awesome carry job during his match with Lashley at GAB '07. Just an awesome powerhouse match. 

Oh yeah, and to add to the sorta current discussion: Fuck Davey Richards. Although, I think it's unfair how Davey gets all this hate when guys like O Reilly, Eddie Edwards, Roderick Strong and so many others are guilty of the same bullshit that Richards does. I can never understand why Davey gets singled out as that guy. It's funny though, around 2009 or so, he was the IWC's boy. How dare anyone talk shit about the American Wolves?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ Yeah, knew I was forgetting another Cena carryjob from his 07 reign. Good call.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Not only is Cena great at carrying others, he's pretty damn good at squashing his opponents as well. Sorry, I just love that match with Miz at GAB '09. Not because I hate the Miz or anything like that, it's just that it was such a fun squash match. The build was for it was pretty good as well with Miz beating Cena 7-0 lol. Who would have thought those would main event a Mania in just 2 years and Miz would win? 

And to add to further discussions:

Best PPV opener this year is no doubt, SD MITB. Axel/Miz/third jobber I'm forgetting was also good.

Brock/Rock SS '02 is THE reason why the PPV is an all time GOAT and is MOTN. DAT DOUBLE KIP UP :mark:

Also the crowd chanting "Let's go Rocky, let's go Brocky" The match is just epic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cesaro/sheamus 2 is everything right in the world. So So good and my 3rd MOTY behind only ziggler/del rio and dbryan/cesaro. Cesaro is the best worker in the wwe atm IMO and needs a match at ss


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Not only is Cena great at carrying others, he's pretty damn good at squashing his opponents as well. Sorry, I just love that match with Miz at GAB '09. Not because I hate the Miz or anything like that, it's just that it was such a fun squash match. The build was for it was pretty good as well with Miz beating Cena 7-0 lol. Who would have thought those would main event a Mania in just 2 years and Miz would win?
> 
> And to add to further discussions:
> 
> ...


I knew someone was sweating that Brock rock match hard, its not that it wasn't great, because it was, I just think angle vs Austin was an all around better bout. Better psychology, told a better story, more dramatic, etc. Brock rock had all those things too just not at the same level

And that 3rd jobber you were forgetting is Barrett, which is fitting because all 3 of those guys are completely forgettable and yet some how pulled out a more than solid match. It was a lot better than Cena vs ryback, granted that isn't saying much because that match was a complete abortion.

Just now watching the "here comes the pain" brockumentary. Pretty good so far, Paul heyman in interviews just makes me love wrestling so much more. He's one of my favorite characters ever in the business, because he genuinely CARES so much about performance. Without Heyman Brock might have been led astray and never fully reached his potential as quickly as he did.

Man am I glad heyman and Brock are back. They make the WWE approximately 10.78 times more entertaining.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> cesaro/sheamus 2 is everything right in the world. So So good and my 3rd MOTY behind only ziggler/del rio and dbryan/cesaro. Cesaro is the best worker in the wwe atm IMO and needs a match at ss


Cesaro is ok I guess. It's not that I don't enjoy his matches, I really do. But I really don't care for the guy. He's sort of like ADR in that yeah he puts on good matches but it's not like a week (or a month) without him would be devastating.

In terms of the top worker in the company, it's definitely Bryan. Bryan is locked for WOTY. Man, this would be his what 7th year in the Observer? Meltzer ought to give him part ownership or something lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan > Cesaro. Cesaro's great and all but DB's on a different level to everyone else in the company. He's been the shining light in the best Shield tags and I can't see Ryback ever topping the 6/3 Raw match with any other opponent. Haven't seen the Cesaro/Sheamus matches yet, I'll get around to that a bit later tonight, but I'll be amazed if they're better than Bryan/Sheamus 2 out of 3 falls. Ziggler/Del Rio from Payback is otherworldly (I need to watch it a second time to see how it holds up, right now I seriously think it's only behind Taker/Michaels, Cena/Punk and Cena/Lesnar when it comes to WWE matches in the PG era (I'm probably forgetting some but my point remains; it's fantastic)) but if it lives up to potential Bryan/Cena could be better. 

Closing statement: THE AMERICAN DRAGON BRYAN DANIELSON > everybody else.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Bryan is comfortably ahead of everyone else at the moment. I think Bryan/Cena, barring any shenanigans/convoluted booking, will be MOTY.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, Bryan is comfortably ahead of everyone else at the moment. I think Bryan/Cena, barring any shenanigans/convoluted booking, will be MOTY.


What's the deal with McMahon and HHH as far as Bryan/Cena goes? I haven't been watching Raw. A screwy finish seems highly possible, no?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sadly, yes, though I'm hoping it plays out more like MITB 2011, and all the screwy shit happens after the match and Orton cashes in on behalf of Vince (since Vince seemingly wants neither Cena nor Bryan to be champ).


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Thanks ATF for posting caesro's matches


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, Bryan is comfortably ahead of everyone else at the moment. I think Bryan/Cena, barring any shenanigans/convoluted booking, will be MOTY.


Shenanigans and all, I think that this can still be MOTY. If the shenanigans take place towards the end like Punk/Cena MITB then I'm all for it. It will add another element of drama to the match. I need to watch Cena/Bryan from RAW last year. I don't recall it tbh so I need to get a good little tease for Summerslam.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't remember their Raw match either, and I couldn't find a link (didn't look hard). Would also like to watch it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> I don't remember their Raw match either, and I couldn't find a link (didn't look hard). Would also like to watch it.


Yeah I have tried YT, and torrent sites- no luck


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Antonio Cesaro v Sheamus - Main Event (6/5/13)*
From the get go I knew I was gonna enjoy this match up. It started off with your standard WWE feeling out process, except it wasn't standard at all, it actually came off as a real struggle. The mat work was just so much more physical than the normally smooth choreographed looking stuff I'm used to seeing. Is there such a thing as stiff mat work? If there is this had it. Obviously it wasn't on Finlay/Benoit/Regal levels of greatness but I totally appreciated it. Cesaro even bit Sheamus at one point. Great stuff. The strikes are nice and meaty too and when they transition away from the opening segment into more back and forth stuff they maintain the feeling of it being a real fight for either guy to land his offense and gain an advantage. Loved the big payback spot for Sheamus where he sent Cesaro flying into the ring post, the same move Cesaro hit earlier to set up his control segment. Bossy offense from Cesaro as you'd expect, notably a top rope knee drop, and Sheamus is very good selling and working from the bottom. Really good match between two of the company's best workers.

*Antonio Cesaro v Sheamus - Smackdown (6/14/13)*
This is simply put the hardest hitting match I've seen all year. I prefer the 6/5 match ever so slightly but damn this was something else. They accomplished so much in less than 10 minutes, just clobbering each other at break neck pace with MANLY striking and big power moves. Sheamus lifting Cesaro over the ropes for his Irish Curse backbreaker is something I don't think I've seen before. The steel steps spot was thunderous. Cesaro's spin was rather ridiculous (in a good way obviously). They just killed each other and it was awesome, I just wish it went longer. That's not a major complaint, and I didn't mind how the finish kind of came out of nowhere, that actually felt appropriate because of the pace and physicality of the match, but they left me wanting more. 

THE LIST:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
2. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
3. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
4. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
6. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
7. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
8. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
9. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
10. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
11. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)
12. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
13. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
14. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
15. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
16. Antonio Cesaro v Sheamus - Main Event (6/5/13)
17. Antonio Cesaro v Sheamus - Smackdown (6/14/13)
18. Daniel Bryan v Seth Rollins - Raw (6/10/13)
19. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
20. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
21. John Cena v Mark Henry - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
22. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
23. Kofi Kingston v Antonio Cesaro - Main Event (5/1/13)
24. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
25. Christian v Randy Orton v Rob Van Dam - Smackdown (8/2/13)
26. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Tried finding Bryan/Cena. Ending up finding their wood chopping contest, their '02 match and a 24 minute review of some dude talking about the Raw they wrestled on last year. ~___~

Then I got sidetracked watching Punk/Cena from February. Still my favorite match of the year, although there's about 7 Shield matches and a few others I need to watch again to confirm.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan/Cena from last year was a pretty good TV main event. Had their usual spots, and a :mark: moment with Bryan countering the STF into the No Lock. It was only about 16 minutes including commercial breaks IIRC, so I think their SummerSlam match should be even better and a definite MOTYC.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

1h54 in.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dem Cena/Bryan matches. God I wish SSlam was tonight. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Best PPV opener this year? Without giving it too much thought I'm assuming it has to be The Shield's WM match. Can't really remember what else opened. Barrett/Miz/Axel was pretty good.


Does the pre-show count? Usos/Rollins & Reigns was super.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Speaking of Cesaro/Zayn, has the supposed 2/3 falls match aired yet?


Airs 8/26 if memory serves correctly 

Cesaro & Dutch did a promo where they loosely referenced Zayn's past as El Generico. Said he wore a mask so he could illegally enter and wrestle in this country undetected or something along those lines. Thought it was another example of the simplicity and freedom NXT promos seem to possess compared to the main roster counterparts.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Swagger/Cesaro Vs Henry/??? ... Please?

Cesaro Is quite beast mode these days, so a Cesaro Vs Henry singles bout is a little bit of a mini dream match for me at the moment. 

Hypothetically, could you make a strong case for anybody else being WOTY so far besides Bryan or Cesaro (no, the shield as a whole doesn't count)? I want to read some opinions on this.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

On a global scale or are you keeping it strictly to WWE? No one is close to them in WWE, if so.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Slowly but surely, Randy Orton has had a pretty decent year as well. Punk was also on his way to an unprecedented third straight WOTY, but then he lost his smile.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rollins should also be considered, as too should Ziggler to a lesser extent.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

It's just gotta Bryan in my mind. Cesaro, Rollins, Ziggler, have all been fantastic, but Bryan has been head and shoulders above everyone else. He's as on fire as Punk was in 2011


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Orton? I said 'best' .

Great call on Rollins, I just need to see what he does in a singles capacity more so until I group him in with the best, his match with danielson was certainly something else and probably my favorite Bryan match this year. Punk has had a pair of completely fucking amazing matches with Taker & Cena, but the rock nonsense drags him down a ton as does his some of his tv work that was really sub par. Punk hasn't been consistent at all this year which is sad to say, he's becoming more and more like John Cena everyday in his work pattern.

Then again, the Ryback TLC match was great as well, but since his return punk has been weird. The Brock match will deliver I'm sure.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Slowly but surely, Randy Orton has had a pretty decent year as well. Punk was also on his way to an unprecedented third straight WOTY, but then he lost his smile.


Orton has been on a roll ever since May. He may not get the credit he deserves here but even as a fan, I've noticed improvements and newfound motivation in his performances since then, specially when he got involved with The Shield and Team Hell No. Hoping that he gets rid of his 5 moves of doom when he turns heel which I'm sure he will. He's always changed his wrestling with each turn. Others may not notice it but in his first face turn after Evolution, he was spamming punches excessively.

Other than the Fandango match, is any of Punk's matches since returning any good? MITB aside, I don't think any of them are worth remembering. At least he should sell the ass-kicking at the hands of BROCK well enough at SummerSlam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Orton? I said 'best' .
> 
> Great call on Rollins, I just need to see what he does in a singles capacity more so until I group him in with the best, his match with danielson was certainly something else and probably my favorite Bryan match this year. Punk has had a pair of completely fucking amazing matches with Taker & Cena, but the rock nonsense drags him down a ton as does his some of his tv work that was really sub par. Punk hasn't been consistent at all this year which is sad to say, he's becoming more and more like John Cena everyday in his work pattern.
> 
> Then again, the Ryback TLC match was great as well, but once his return punk has been weird. The Brock match will deliver I'm sure.



If punk vs Brock ends up being better than Bryan vs Cena, it could actually become a decent race. Because then punks 3 best matches (vs taker, vs Cena on raw, vs Brock) will be as good as Bryan's best 3. I'd also throw Punks match with Jericho which I thought was very very good if not great, although I know a lot of you will disagree with me because the build was so shitty.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No way in hell Orton is remotely close to being WOTY

1) Cesaro
2) dbryan
3) Ziggler
4) Sheamus
5) Shield( I know)
6) Punk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Other than the Fandango match, is any of Punk's matches since returning any good? MITB aside, I don't think any of them are worth remembering. At least he should sell the ass-kicking at the hands of BROCK well enough at SummerSlam.


Just the Fandango match, the Orton match, and the Jericho PB match, and only the Jericho match I'd consider great (but it wasn't even MOTN). He did a good job in the WWE Title MITB, but that match as a whole sucked. The Darren Young match sucked and the match with Axel this week wasn't that good (not that bad though). Also the tag he had with Axel a few weeks ago I don't remember being any good.

While it was clear he was suffering from ring rust initially after his return, he's shaken a lot of it off since then and has been good for the past few weeks. He's not WOTY anymore, that's for sure, as Bryan has far and away taken that, and will more than likely keep it if he continues for the rest of the year..

WOTY so far:

1) Bryan



2) Punk
3) Sheamus
4) Ziggler
5) Cesaro


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That Payback match is a piece of shit. Punk's ring rust was on a level never seen before and it was generally a boring match that some overlook because the crowd was into it. And no, I don't care, his ring rust was not a "story". I'd probably give it one star or two at most. Such a far cry from that great Wrestlemania match these two had. I was pretty bored by the Orton match before MITB. Probably the only bad one Orton has had since June.

So I guess it's only FAN-DAN-GOOOOOOOOO and the ladder match.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Ring rust was a part of Punk's story at PB though. A HUGE part. :side:

As for WOTY so far;

1) Bryan




2) Punk
3) Cesaro
4) Ziggler
5) Sheamus

HM: Shield, Orton


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> That Payback match is a piece of shit. Punk's ring rust was on a level never seen before and it was generally a boring match that some overlook because the crowd was into it. I'd probably give it one star or two at most. Such a far cry from that great Wrestlemania match these two had. And I was pretty bored by the Orton match before MITB. Probably the only bad one Orton has had since June.
> 
> So I guess it's only FAN-DAN-GOOOOOOOOO and the ladder match.


I think that's severely underrating the PB match, which was a good match as a whole with a strong crowd to bring it up some more. Yeah, Punk was definitely suffering from ring rust, but in that match in particular I thought it played into it well. So well I didn't even think it was real ring rust until the next couple of Punk matches made that clear.

As for the Punk/Orton match being Orton's worst since June... I'm not 100% sure of all the matches I'd put below it since I only remember a few, but I'd take the Punk/Orton match over The Shield match this week maybe, the first couple of Bryan matches (with the shitty endings), and a Kane match with Bryan as the ref.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I feel like Orton deserves more credit than he gets around here, but at the same time he shouldn't be mentioned as a contender for top worker in the company right now. There are a number of guys that are quite comfortably better than him but he's heading in the right direction for sure. 

Bryan is definitely number one and I don't think it even requires much explanation why. The fact that he's gotten me to thoroughly enjoy singles matches involving Ryback really says it all. The guy genuinely seems incapable of having a bad match right now.

Second would be Cesaro. Much the same as Bryan, he's just been consistently great this year. If WWE decide to pull the trigger on this guy I feel like he would be on Bryan's level, but at the moment he's just that one step behind for me.

After those two I'm not really sure how I'd rank anyone. Ziggler deserves a mention because he may have turned out the performance of the year (with Del Rio playing no small part) at Payback. He's been at least solid in all of his matches but isn't on the same level as Cesaro or Bryan. It's early days in his face run though, so we'll see what he can do once he moves on from that sack of shit Big E Langston.

After that it's probably interchangeable between Punk, Sheamus and Del Rio. Punk has been entertaining but inconsistent for me. His matches with The Rock really take him out of the equation to be honest (although Rock definitely shoulders most of the blame), but I have no doubt his match with Brock will be a MOTYC. Sheamus is a damn workhorse but now that he's out for 4-6 months he's out of the equation aswell. As for Del Rio, as bland as I find him, he's always at least solid and his performance at Payback can't be overlooked.

So I guess in order for me currently it goes:

1)Bryan
2)Cesaro
3)Ziggler
4)Punk
5)Sheamus
6)Del Rio


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> That Payback match is a piece of shit. Punk's ring rust was on a level never seen before and it was generally a boring match that some overlook because the crowd was into it. And no, I don't care, his ring rust was not a "story". I'd probably give it one star or two at most. Such a far cry from that great Wrestlemania match these two had. I was pretty bored by the Orton match before MITB. Probably the only bad one Orton has had since June.
> 
> So I guess it's only FAN-DAN-GOOOOOOOOO and the ladder match.


Dude the ring rust was obviously part of the story. I'm not saying he didn't flub a few times in that match, cause he certainly did, but they were obviously going for a ring rust story with the way that match was structured, Jericho even said as much in an interview he did after MitB. Calling that match a 1 star bout is just stupid. I know everyone is entitled to their opinions and what not but giving that match a rating that low can only be chalked up to you disliking CM Punk. I don't like a lot of wrestlers but I won't call their good matches crap when I don't like them. I think randy orton is the most bland superstar in the wwe since he became "the viper" and his matches are so formulaic as to almost being comical at times. But I'll still give him credit when it's due and you are 100% right he has been not good but great since about may.

I'm just praying for a full fledged evil orton heel turn and dropping the "the viper" and "the viper" 5 moves of doom that he was using as an absolute crutch until a few months ago. It's like he didn't care enough to try so lemme just give you a DDT through the ropes and a lightning speed powerslam, spaz out a bit, hit the Rko in the least imaginative way possible, and call it a night. Orton from 2004-2009 NEVER would have coasted like he did from 2010is-2013. I just watched his streak match against taker, and he is almost a completely different wrestler then compared to now. Ill even go so far as to say thats the most underrated streak match of all. Batistas and Triple Hs matches get way more recognigtion but ortons is superior to those in every way. I wonder if his marital problems caused him to just check out. It would be easily understandable.

Ok I'm done ranting on Orton. It just pisses me off when a kick ass heel gets his balls clipped by an ill advised face turn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Believe me, my low rating of that match has nothing to do with any dislike for Punk. I love their Wrestlemania match but the PB one was a bore. I might have to give it a rewatch for a 100% clear opinion on it, though.



The Sandrone said:


> I think that's severely underrating the PB match, which was a good match as a whole with a strong crowd to bring it up some more. Yeah, Punk was definitely suffering from ring rust, but in that match in particular I thought it played into it well. So well I didn't even think it was real ring rust until the next couple of Punk matches made that clear.
> 
> As for the Punk/Orton match being Orton's worst since June... I'm not 100% sure of all the matches I'd put below it since I only remember a few, but I'd take the Punk/Orton match over The Shield match this week maybe, the first couple of Bryan matches (with the shitty endings), and a Kane match with Bryan as the ref.


Ah, I forgot the Bryan match that ended in a no contest. And I guess you can count The Shield this week although they barely got much time before the DQ happened.

And where did they say anything about his ring rust? I don't remember it. Although I give him a break because his mind might not have been in it because he was dealing with the stuff involving his mother. Doesn't make the matches any better, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Believe me, my low rating of that match has nothing to do with any dislike for Punk. I love their Wrestlemania match but the PB one was a bore. I might have to give it a rewatch for a 100% clear opinion on it, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh no question their WM28 match was way way better, I just don't think Payback was dog shit or anything hahaha. In the beginning of that match you can tell there are some flubs that almost seem on purpose (ring rust the story) but then there are others that were obviously not intended (actual ring rust). As the match picks up in the last 8-10 minutes, both guys did a great job I thoug. I gave this match ***3/4* after the first viewing and their mania bout ****1/4*. I will have to rewatch payback again to see what all the fuss is about because I really enjoyed it live.

However, the ring rust he displayed in his next two matches really wasn't explainable. Glad he looks like he's got his old self back now. Can't wait for Summerslam and seeing Brock against someone other than Trips.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched Rock/Making I Quit last night. Still love the match and give it ****.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You mean Mankind? Yeah, I watched that again a couple weeks ago. Def held up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, Brock's arguably one of the greatest match to match workers in company history, so mix that with Punk's innovation and you've got a recipe for an all time classic. Bryan and Cena are going to fucking BRING IT, but at the end of the night it's going to be Punk-Brock that emerges as the match of the night, bank on it.

The Summerslam card this year is what Wrestlemania XXIX should have been (even though I enjoy XXIX ).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ah, WWE. :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

With BROCK/Punk, Cena/GOAT, and ADR/Christian, we have 3 potential ****+ matches. Pretty good imo. Plus, Kane + Wyatt + FIRE, and whatever The Shield does.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Ah, WWE. :lmao


Man, I might stick in my SS 02 DVD so I can watch that awesome segment where RVD comes out and shows off his IC title!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Man, I might stick in my SS 02 DVD so I can watch that awesome segment where RVD comes out and shows off his IC title!


JR says he's the new Intercontinental Champion in that video. I think he ran to the ring, found the belt laying there and picked it up then showed it off as he walked to his lockerroom.

Am I the only one who hears no sounds from that video either? I watched it in wwe.com and it was fine but the youtube version is completely mute.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They had to cut RVD's piece short because HBK/HHH needed a good 10 seconds.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah no sound for me when I watched it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

No sound for me as well. Also the recent Sandow video had no sound when I tried listening to it a day or two ago.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wonder how they will work their way around the 2004 edition. Orton will probably find the belt handed to him after wrestling the air for 20 minutes.

This is ridiculous. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2004 will ft. Orton doing the RKO _literally_ outta nowhere :lmao

Has anyone ever seen The Corporate Ministry vs The Union?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I wonder how they will work their way around the 2004 edition. Orton will probably find the belt handed to him after wrestling the air for 20 minutes.
> 
> This is ridiculous. :lol


2004's main event will be Orton vs. himself, and 2005 won't have an opener.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've seen a couple of Top 10 WM matches ever lists, and one of them pleased the fuck outta me: Savage/Warrior was on the Top 5. :mark:

Most underrated WM classic ever, because it's rarely talked about today. Only 2nd to Bret/Owen as the best of the 10 1st Manias.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Jericho from Payback does suck. Orton does as well for the majority of the year. There you go. 

Cesaro & Danielson are top dogs and where is the appreciation for Sheamus? Good grief. Ziggler has had a good year, but c'mon now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sheamus being out for 4-6 months makes me sad .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't get the hate for Orton these days. He's really stepped up his game within the last month or two. And a far as Cesaro's work goes, the guy's basically a D show guy. Yeah, D show as in Main Event and NXT.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

In 2004 Orton just walked to the ring and found the World Title. Imagine the good luck in that. Orlando Jordan also never wrestled at Summerslam.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus is that mid-card workhorse who delivers quality matches time and time again. I'm thinking he's top 3 in my WOTY consideration due to pure consistency whenever he gets a decent opponent or time to develop a proper match. And that's all been on TV. The guy hasn't really had any opportunities to shine on PPV in singles competition yet I can still point to his TV work as being some of the most impressive matches this year.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Top 3 for me are:

1) D-Bryan
2) Shield
3) Sheamus

Honourable mentions: Cesaro, Punk, Ziggler, ADR. 

Yeah, I count The Shield as one cause I can do whatever the fuck I wanna do lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't get the hate for Orton these days. He's really stepped up his game within the last month or two. And a far as Cesaro's work goes, the guy's basically a D show guy. Yeah, D show as in Main Event and NXT.


I honestly haven't seen a good Randy Orton singles match this year. Give me one to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Sheamus being out for 4-6 months makes me sad .


What? Dammit all. </3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> I honestly haven't seen a good Randy Orton singles match this year. Give me one to watch.


The night Bryan defeated him. People may not want to admit it, but that was the match that really, really got the ball rolling with Bryan.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

orton/dbryan 2 (the smackdown one) is the only one worth a watch, the rest are shit

A Orton match worth a damn this year ? that dbryan match, the 3 way was OK, um idk that orton/punk match was ok, reason people hate it is because the Crowd was DEAD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> What? Dammit all. </3


Yup. Injured his shoulder in the ladder match and tried to work through it. Didn't work .


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I've disagreed with the Orton hate fire a long time. In fact I never agreed with it. He had some great matches last year despite being used as a filler. I have become an Orton mark though so I'm not entirely unbiased.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> orton/dbryan 2 (the smackdown one) is the only one worth a watch, the rest are shit


Chuck in vs Rhodes on RAW & vs Swagger on RAW _(Post Extreme Rules)_ and I agree.

---------

No way, Cal. Sheamus had two awesome matches post-MITB with that bruise AND in injured shoulder? The man is a king. He'll be missed during this time. Sheamus leaves & Kofi returns. I hope that's not a sign of what's to come for WWE this year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't worry, Kofi's not gonna get pushed.



Saint Dick said:


> I honestly haven't seen a good Randy Orton singles match this year. Give me one to watch.


I liked the following matches of his:

vs Cody Rhodes - Raw 29/4/2013
vs Antonio Cesaro - Main Event 8/5/2013
vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 21/6/2013
vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 24/6/2013
vs Christian - Smackdown 5/7/2013
vs Sheamus - Smackdown 12/7/2013
vs Fandango - Raw 15/7/2013
vs Alberto Del Rio - Smackdown 19/7/2013



Spoiler: Smackdown spoilers



And he's facing RVD this week so it should be another good match


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh yes, how can I forget the Cody Rhodes match. Don't know why people say it buried Cody, it made him imo. 

Btw, I didn't even know there was an Orton/Bryan II. Gotta get on that asap.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Yup. Injured his shoulder in the ladder match and tried to work through it. Didn't work .


FUCK, I knew that fall through the ladder looked rough...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> FUCK, I knew that fall through the ladder looked rough...


It indeed it. Sheamus is the MAN. It's so sad that it's only in this thread he's appreciated lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

OH yea Cody is right that match with Cody (Rhodes) was decent, but that because of Rhodes was awesome in it

---

Randy Orton is a very weird case for me, I dont find his Character that boring as Most do and I actually prefer it a TON compared to his overrated alien looking, bald, weird mannerisms 2009 character. The thing is he is extremely boring in the ring unless he is against a exciting wrestler ( DBryan, Ziggler, Christian, RVD etc) but when he is against Del Rio or like a Axel or Fandango ( I HATE DEL RIO, only Barrett and the miz come close to my hatred for him) its so boring if that makes sense. I get he is "crisp, and clean" but so is Del Rio in ring.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sheamus is a good worker but like ADR everything else about him is awful so I won't miss him. Speaking of which how did Sheamus and ADR have such crappy matches last summer? They can both go so it should have worked.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone know if Cesaro and Masters ever worked together? The thought of that match is just awesome. Definitely a dream match for me. Again, where the fuck is Masters these days?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Don't worry, Kofi's not gonna get pushed.


I say that too. I don't trust this company though.

--------------

I didn't hate the Sheamus vs Del Rio matches from last year. MITB was good. The other two were a bit underwhelming and should have been better yeah. Wouldn't claim they 'sucked' based on memory. SummerSlam had a crap finish; average match. Their best certainly came from their recent encounter.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Sheamus is a good worker but like ADR everything else about him is awful so I won't miss him. Speaking of which how did Sheamus and ADR have such crappy matches last summer? They can both go so it should have worked.


I wouldn't say the matches sucked, people just didn't care about them because the feud was completely unmemorable and drawn out. I've heard some really good things about their NOC match (haven't seen it myself) and I remember their Summerslam match being pretty solid with a dumb finish. I remember some really stiff shots.



sharkboy22 said:


> Does anyone know if Cesaro and Masters ever worked together? The thought of that match is just awesome. Definitely a dream match for me. Again, where the fuck is Masters these days?


Nope, not to my knowledge.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm gonna watch the Orton/Bryan matches. Didn't think Orton/Rhodes was anything more than solid if it's the one I'm thinking of and the Orton/Cesaro matches are some of Cesaro's worst this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NOC is the one I remember the least. Could be a reason for that. I don't own it so haven't had the chance to watch it a few times, tbf.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

ADR/Sheamus Ratings
MITB - **1/2
Summerslam - **1/4
Night Of Champions ***

Not really crappy but nothing that good either. I may have just remembered the feud as being so crappy that I forgot at least the NOC match wasn't to bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know what match from Sheamus in 2012 is wicked? the Smackdown bout vs Tensai. Happened on 8/3. Someone should really make a Sheamus 2012 set.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I know most people dislike Del Rio here, but could someone talk about what his best matches are besides Payback?

Just going by Meltzer ratings, I've found these. Could people comment on whether you think any of these are really good or not? I'm not counting MITB type matches or matches with Orton or Ziggler (seen them):


> 12/19/10 Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio (TLC) ****1/4
> 4/3/11 Edge vs. Albert Del Rio ***1/2
> 5/1/11 Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio (Ladder) ****1/4
> 9/18/11 John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio ***1/2
> ...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ cant find that anywhere, remember saying to myself " That was actually pretty good" when I saw. I absolutely have memory of this ADR/Sheamus feud at all :lol I took a semi break from wwe from sept to like the build of TLC so idk


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I know most people dislike Del Rio here, but could someone talk about what his best matches are besides Payback?
> 
> Just going by Meltzer ratings, I've found these. Could people comment on whether you think any of these are really good or not? I'm not counting MITB type matches or matches with Orton or Ziggler (seen them):


I use to like the punk/del rio svs 11 havent seen it in a while. Ummm the ladder with Christian gets some praise but it was just OK to me and their other matches in 2011 are better. I remember there was a pretty good Del Rio/Dbryan match from sd in 8/11 iirc

Edit: His sd 2013 with Big Show is pretty good


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Edge/ADR was horrible. Out of that list I'd put Rio/Christian's ladder match on top, followed by the the 2 Fatal 4 Ways.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Del Rio/Show LMS on Smackdown is his second best match in WWE after the Ziggler Payback match. Excellent deviation from the cliche WWE gimmick match style with Show producing a wonderful performance as the aggressive and brutal heel and Del Rio selling and bumping like a loon to get over his ordeal. The spots softening Show's arm were well executed and Show's progressive selling of the wear and tear in executing his offence with the damaged shoulder was wonderful and the payoff to that narrative in the finish was the icing on the cake. Also thought the way in which they paced and timed the nearfalls with Del Rio getting to his feet at the count of 9 were very smart, espcecially the way in which they had him overcome the knockout punch by rolling to the floor onto his feet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Del Rio Vs Christian was pretty much always great in 2011. LMS with Cena after the ring broke from Show/Henry is a ton of fun. Uhhh... nothing else stands out for me. Those multiman TLC matches are about ***1/2 too high for my liking.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't love the Christian/Del Rio ladder match like a lot of people do but it's definitely good. They had a couple really good matches with each other on Smackdown around that time but I don't know the dates. Del Rio v Swagger SD 4/19/13 is great.

PS. I think Del Rio's a good worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> I know most people dislike Del Rio here, but could someone talk about what his best matches are besides Payback?
> 
> Just going by Meltzer ratings, I've found these. Could people comment on whether you think any of these are really good or not? I'm not counting MITB type matches or matches with Orton or Ziggler (seen them):


The Ladder match vs Christian should be watched. Only b/c I myself don't care for it much, yet some think it is great. Form your own opinion there.

the Falls Count Anywhere vs Cena on RAW is a weird match. First half is SO bad. Then once things kick into high gear the fun is released. It's still their weakest match out of all the ones that actually got time on TV & PPV. The crowd is ferocious though. It's Chicago. They're grand. You're better off watching all other Cena vs Del Rio matches. I love their chemistry. Match late last year on Smackdown is very good. Great, actually.

Three Way HIAC is rad. Def watch that. Over the Limit four way is solid; albeit overrated imo. I've seen better. Sheamus vs Del Rio's best match just happened on RAW like a week or two ago. Go find that one and enjoy. Just about every Christian vs Del Rio match is quality too. Pardon what I said about the ladder match. Gimmick hurt things for me. 

And of course, my favorite match not listed is the one from the Summer of 2011 vs Danielson on Smackdown. It was the Smackdown following SummerSlam, actually. Ah, it's fabulous.

EDIT ~ Omg yes, watch both matches vs Swagger this year from Smackdown too. (Y)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I know most people dislike Del Rio here, but could someone talk about what his best matches are besides Payback?


Vs Christian- Extreme Rules 2011
Vs CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio- 6/20/11
Vs CM Punk vs John Cena- Hell in a Cell 2011
Vs John Cena- Vengeance 2011
Vs CM Punk- Survivor Series 2011
Vs CM Punk- RAW- 11/28/11 
Vs CM Punk vs The Miz- TLC 2011
Vs The Big Show- Smackdown 1/11/13
Vs Jack Swagger- Smackdown 4/19/13

He also had some good matches with Rey Mysterio on Smackdown back in 2010 along with a solid Cage match with Christian on Smackdown 3/18/11. His matches with Dolph Ziggler this year have been his best so far.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Forgot about Del Rio/Swagger from 4/19. Very impressive showing I thought:



> *Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger, Smackdown (4/19/13)*
> 
> Don't think this is as good as Del Rio/Show from Smackdown, but its definitely up there with any other TV match from this year. Really smart and consistent utilisation of the dual limb weaknesses by both men to setup numerous transitions and counters and there were a ton of creative ways particularly by Del Rio to highlight his pain. My favourite was probably him grimacing in agony the minute he landed off the leapfrog as well as his sudden knee jerk reaction to the tilt-a-whirl backbreaker to Swagger. Thought the finishing stretch was remarkably well done in terms of ankle lock/cross armbreaker transitions and it helped that both men found ways to pace the submission counters smartly in between other offence. Felt like a big moment when Del Rio finally transitioned into the cross armbreaker smoothly out of the ankle lock and his continous selling of the leg made it feel like a desperation counter rather than an overly choreographed sequence. Swagger's mid air knee clip was a really bossy counter and I loved Del Rio's opportunistic kick to the arm prior to climbing the turnbuckle. Limbwork wasn't forgotten, both men were quick to sell and highlight the limitation of the respective injuries and they timed the finishing sequence smartly in having Del Rio catching Swagger in a flash pin rather than getting lost in a sea of submission counters. Great match.



Del Rio definitely has more long term promise as a face I feel, especially as a worker. As a heel bar the Ziggler Payback match he just struggles to make his logical and focused offence an integral part of the match which builds drama. People like Mcintyre and Cesaro can work methodically on top but just put everything together to advance the match. Del Rio struggles and outside of being underrated as a bumper I just find his matches as a heel too stagnant and never moving out of one gear. As a face he just seemed to work better underneath, mixing his highspots with his greco roman background and timing his comebacks well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oooh Falls Count Anywhere triple threat match mention. That one is often lost in the shuffle of really good matches from 2011.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Sheamus is a good worker but like ADR everything else about him is awful so I won't miss him. Speaking of which how did Sheamus and ADR have such crappy matches last summer? They can both go so it should have worked.


I'd ask exactly the same for Benoit and :kurt.

Incredible how Kurt of all people was the one guy in the world that the Wolverine couldn't work well with. Rewatched the No Way Out 2003 Handicap match, and those Rumble '03 callbacks made me wanna vomit.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Del Rio v Swagger SD 4/19/13 is great.
> 
> PS. I think Del Rio's a good worker.


I actually watched this, because I saw it in your list of best matches this year. I enjoyed it, and those stick beatings looked particularly stiff. Also adored Del Rio's counter into his submission move. He did it so quickly, and it was like one, continuous, roll. It was a thing of beauty.

I agree, I actually really like him (not just for in ring work...I think he's strong in a number of areas). I also, of course, haven't had to deal with him being overpushed and stuff, though.

Thanks so much, everyone! You all were helpful, especially since you're also recommending stuff not on that list.

If anyone else wants to chime in, feel free. I'm still reading & taking note of everything.


ETA: Great review of the Del Rio/Swagger match, Woolcock!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The overpushing is the only drawback. Del Rio in the in ring department is more than swell. I've liked some performances and matches as a heel; no doubt. But the guy really is a strong babyface once it comes to how he can formulate his game. You don't care character wise, yet you care once he's in the ring. Tis a shame WWE decided to even force feed that approach and now he's back to being a heel. Almost as if does days as a face were a blur.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

here is the bryan/del rio match from 2011. Its funny because IMO del rio the most boring superstar out their and I prefer him Heel but he is a better face in-ring, his performance in the sd big show match was outstanding


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I do love Del Rio as a heel, mainly because of his mannerisms. And I feel he plays the duality of a charming guy with a sadistic streak well. The writers haven't done much with it, though, below the surface. I think that it's a writing failure more than anything, especially because people here have said that there was no depth to his heel character for the first few years.

I think that he can play it really well, if they gave him some depth, rather than just typical heel shit (attacking his manager for no reason, for example).

ETA: Thanks for posting that 'skins. Gonna watch that later today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't say I thought the Smackdown Last Man Standing vs Big Show was anything truly special. Did nothing for me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

This thread moves to fast. I find every time I come on the forum to check this thread I find I have to catch up with the last 2-3 pages of discussion. 

Anyway to add something to the current discussion, my favorite Del Rio matches are vs Christian Extreme Rules 2011, vs Cena LMS, vs Cena and Punk HIAC, and vs Ziggler Payback. Del Rio's certainly a good in-ring worker but most of the time I find it hard to care for his matches because he's so boring as a character and his personality is non-existent. Combine that with the fact he's always shoved down our throats and it further makes me not care for the guy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I say that too. I don't trust this company though.


They have not pushed him ever since the Orton feud and there's nothing suggesting they'll start now.



Spoiler: Smackdown spoiler



He jobs to Fandango in 5 minutes this week. So a push seems unlikely. Unless he'll have ten more transitional midcard and tag title reigns.





Saint Dick said:


> I'm gonna watch the Orton/Bryan matches. Didn't think Orton/Rhodes was anything more than solid if it's the one I'm thinking of and the Orton/Cesaro matches are some of Cesaro's worst this year.


Depends which ones you talk about. I found their matches from early this year until around Wrestlemania time pretty dull admittedly but their most recent Main Event match was actually very good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c Cesaro always needs a mention, Del Rio vs Cesaro had a nifty nine minute match on RAW this year. Do believe it was leading up towards Extreme Rules. Crowd kind of shat on it, but no real surprise. That's a random Del Rio gem lying around.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> This thread moves to fast. I find every time I come on the forum to check this thread I find I have to catch up with the last 2-3 pages of discussion.


Time Zones, this thread is compelety dead at night for me. 

Gonna watch show/del rio lms again


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Can't say I thought the Smackdown Last Man Standing vs Big Show was anything truly special. Did nothing for me.


You're a scoundrel though so its to be expected.

Seriously though, I thought you would have loved it given the simplicity and way in which they successfully departed from the tepid and dull gimmick match that has become synonymous with recent WWE LMS matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just watched Ziggler/Cesaro Main Event 7/10. That shit OWNED. Dolph looked wonderful as a babyface. Not only is he a fantastic bumper but he's really good at selling fatigue, desperation and then urgency when he sees an opportunity. Cesaro was Cesaro, no other praise necessary. This absolutely shat on the Kingston/Cesaro match earlier in the year. It's even better than the Cesaro/Sheamus matches and that's saying something. Great stuff.



Choke2Death said:


> Depends which ones you talk about. I found their matches from early this year until around Wrestlemania time pretty dull admittedly but their most recent Main Event match was actually very good.


How many matches have they had? I saw two, I'm thinking they're the dull ones around Mania. One was on Main Event and I think the other was on Raw.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Think I need to see this Cesaro/Ziggler match. Not ringing any bells.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> How many matches have they had? I saw two, I'm thinking they're the dull ones around Mania. One was on Main Event and I think the other was on Raw.


They have had a bunch of average at best matches on Raw that lasted 5-10 minutes and Orton won each one. They had one in the first Main Event this year which ended by Shield interference after a few minutes. They had another ME match the week after that went like 20 minutes and that's probably what you're thinking about. But the one I mentioned is not the same. It's the last time they faced off I think. (8th May) I say give that one a chance too. It surprised me because it was much more fun to watch than their other matches. 15 or so minutes went by pretty fast both times I checked it out.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Think I need to see this Cesaro/Ziggler match. Not ringing any bells.


You do. Cesaro did the over the ropes superplex spot again and Dolph countered Swiss Death with a dope DDT :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> You're a scoundrel though so its to be expected.
> 
> Seriously though, I thought you would have loved it given the simplicity and way in which they successfully departed from the tepid and dull gimmick match that has become synonymous with recent WWE LMS matches.




Watching it I was sitting on my hands. Until the utter shock that was Del Rio actually winning the championship. It was just there for me. Of course it looked five starts in comparison to their rematch come Royal Rumble. That one was atrocious.



Saint Dick said:


> Just watched Ziggler/Cesaro Main Event 7/10. That shit OWNED. Dolph looked wonderful as a babyface. Not only is he a fantastic bumper but he's really good at selling fatigue, desperation and then urgency when he sees an opportunity. Cesaro was Cesaro, no other praise necessary. This absolutely shat on the Kingston/Cesaro match earlier in the year. It's even better than the Cesaro/Sheamus matches and that's saying something. Great stuff.


I loved the hell out of it, but I'll prefer Cesaro's one man show vs the useless pustule & def Cesaro vs Sheamus over it. Doesn't really matter. Great Cesaro performances all around. That man is top of class.



The Lady Killer said:


> Think I need to see this Cesaro/Ziggler match. Not ringing any bells.


I told you watch it the day of. FUCK.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

You know what match I'll put over till the day I die? Cena vs Del Rio Miracle on 34th Street Fight. Highly entertaining.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> You do. Cesaro did the over the ropes superplex spot again and Dolph countered Swiss Death with a dope DDT :mark:


:mark:



HayleySabin said:


> I told you watch it the day of. FUCK.


FUCK


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/cesaro is awesome and outstanding as well, I hate say it "its is 3rd Moty behind yadda yadda

MOTY
1)ziggler/del rio payback
2)dbryan/cesaro raw
3)sheamus/cesaro me
4)ziggler/cesaro me


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Watching it I was sitting on my hands. Until the utter shock that was Del Rio actually winning the championship. It was just there for me. Of course it looked five starts in comparison to their rematch come Royal Rumble. That one was atrocious.


Don't think you can flatter your way out of this (who am I kidding you'll probs make a BRICK FROG sign for Summerslam now & I'll be compelled to consider you a gent again  )

Maybe you should rewatch it you utter rascal and see if you come around on it. Show has one of the better performances of the year working in control, Del Rio has his best outing as a babyface in terms of expressive selling and timing his brief but desperate comebacks with aplomb and there's a variety of intelligent spots to increase the drama down the stretch.




HayleySabin said:


> I told you watch it the day of. FUCK.


I can attest to the frustration in seeing one's recommendations never been followed up on. Hey Cody how'd you find those Marty Jones matches :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Right. That Cena vs Del Rio match was the worst. Even in the context it was to be taken it sucked. Thankfully that night had Sheamus vs Show in one of the few good lumberjack matches in the history of mankind.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> :Watching it I was sitting on my hands. Until the utter shock that was Del Rio actually winning the championship. It was just there for me. Of course it looked five starts in comparison to their rematch come Royal Rumble. That one was atrocious.


I liked Show/Del Rio LMS more than you did but for me it peaked at 'good'. Didn't think the Rumble rematch was bad at all either. Two solid matches, Smackdown being superior.



> I loved the hell out of it, but I'll prefer Cesaro's one man show vs the useless pustule & def Cesaro vs Sheamus over it. Doesn't really matter. Great Cesaro performances all around. That man is top of class.


Yeah well I don't really feel the love for Cesaro/Kingston. As for the Sheamus matches, they're both great but I definitely liked the Ziggler bout more. Might have something to do with the fact that Dolph is my favorite thing going right now. The Payback classic won me over and then some.



Choke2Death said:


> They have had a bunch of average at best matches on Raw that lasted 5-10 minutes and Orton won each one. They had one in the first Main Event this year which ended by Shield interference after a few minutes. They had another ME match the week after that went like 20 minutes and that's probably what you're thinking about. But the one I mentioned is not the same. It's the last time they faced off I think. (8th May) I say give that one a chance too. It surprised me because it was much more fun to watch than their other matches. 15 or so minutes went by pretty fast both times I checked it out.


Yeah I'll give it a shot. If you liked it a lot more than their other matches I probably will too. I did a little write up of the Christian/Orton/RVD triple threat and noted that Orton looked more motivated and just generally better than I've seen him in a long time. If he wrestled that way against Cesaro and Bryan I'm sure I'll enjoy those matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I can attest to the frustration in seeing one's recommendations never been followed up on. Hey Cody how'd you find those Marty Jones matches :side:


:lmao THANK YOU WOOLCOCK :woolcock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Show/Rio LMS on SD was utter shite. RR was even worse. Urgh. Just urgh all the way. Del Rio winning the title was the dumbest thing ever until Rock won the title at the RR and THAT became the dumbest thing ever. Until Cena basically cut a heel promo as a babyface saying that Daniel Bryan is a no good piece of shit because he actually likes to wrestle and would continue to wrestle even if he got fired, unlike Cena who would just go home because he's a cunt and THAT became the dumbest thing ever.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What's the general consensus on the Sheamus/Cesaro matches around here? Which one gets more love?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> :lmao THANK YOU WOOLCOCK :woolcock


Anything for a zinger  .



Callamus said:


> Show/Rio LMS on SD was utter shite.


Go home Cal, you're drunk.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> What's the general consensus on the Sheamus/Cesaro matches around here? Which one gets more love?


the Main event gets all the love but the smackdown is very good as well


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Callamus said:


> Show/Rio LMS on SD was utter shite. RR was even worse. Urgh. Just urgh all the way. Del Rio winning the title was the dumbest thing ever until Rock won the title at the RR and THAT became the dumbest thing ever. Until Cena basically cut a heel promo as a babyface saying that Daniel Bryan is a no good piece of shit because he actually likes to wrestle and would continue to wrestle even if he got fired, unlike Cena who would just go home because he's a cunt and THAT became the dumbest thing ever.


Cal has snapped lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah I'll give it a shot. If you liked it a lot more than their other matches I probably will too. I did a little write up of the Christian/Orton/RVD triple threat and noted that Orton looked more motivated and just generally better than I've seen him in a long time. If he wrestled that way against Cesaro and Bryan I'm sure I'll enjoy those matches.


I've usually defended him here but on a look back, a few Del Rio matches aside I admit that he was more miss than hit ever since he returned from his suspension up until Wrestlemania. Since then, his performances have really improved and it's like he's found the motivation to perform to the best of his abilities rather than coasting. You could even notice in the list I posted that nearly everything was from May onwards.

I've also seen it said quite a bit outside of this thread so there must be something to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Don't think you can flatter your way out of this (who am I kidding you'll probs make a BRICK FROG sign for Summerslam now & I'll be compelled to consider you a gent again  )
> 
> Maybe you should rewatch it you utter rascal and see if you come around on it. Show has one of the better performances of the year working in control, Del Rio has his best outing as a babyface in terms of expressive selling and timing his brief but desperate comebacks with aplomb and there's a variety of intelligent spots to increase the drama down the stretch.
> 
> ...


I might try and make a BRICK FROG chant too. We'll see how the folks of Southern California pick up on that.

Hmm. I could... Hook me up with a link and maybe I'll give it a whirl late tonight. Got enough stored up on tap already, and there is no way I'm falling more and more behind on the G1 Climax atm. However, I'm up late often and need something random to watch usually. This could suffice.

Well FUCK. I watch those two - three WOS matches. And I appreciate Adrian Street. Is that not good enough? :hayley2

lets never give a reason to have Greg try and revel in my humbling again. Please and thank you. :woolcock



Saint Dick said:


> I liked Show/Del Rio LMS more than you did but for me it peaked at 'good'. Didn't think the Rumble rematch was bad at all either. Two solid matches, Smackdown being superior.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah well I don't really feel the love for Cesaro/Kingston. As for the Sheamus matches, they're both great but I definitely liked the Ziggler bout more. Might have something to do with the fact that Dolph is my favorite thing going right now. The Payback classic won me over and then some.


I was left with nothing good to say after Royal Rumble 2013 ended. Well, only things were Jericho returned & Drew McIntyre had the best elimination of the night b/c he's an awesome bumping nut. LMS was just...bleh. I did like the Elimination Chamber match though.

Oh, I recall. You and I were on that side together until Cesaro won me over with the third watch. It was the little things he did while Kofi was being a pile of shit which truly amazed me. 

Dolph's the man. You'll get no complaints or arguments from me. The match vs Cesaro was one I was so into it legit flew on by in what felt like five minutes as opposed to fourteen. It's nuts.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> the Main event gets all the love but the smackdown is very good as well


I preferred the Main Event match myself but I could easily see people liking the Smackdown match more. Two completely different matches. Main Event got a lot more time to develop and felt more complete, whereas Smackdown was a hard-hitting sprint which also ruled.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Currently watching Wrestlemania XIX. Haven't seen any matches from it in years so I'm pretty excited to see how this holds up. :hbk


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is Cesaro/Zayn I essential viewing or should I just go ahead and watch the rematch?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I watched II yesterday and it was pretty awesome. Didn't see I, though. I can't wait for this 2/3 falls match to air. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My favorite Sheamus/Cesaro match is probably their first one on RAW in 2012. Cesaro caught me so off guard with that Alpamare Waterslide and Uppercut. Those two really don't know how to have a less than subpar match though, so no answer is wrong. If anyone wants to run through some more Sheamus, I would say that looking over his October 2012 stuff would be the best idea. Easily the best month of his career.

Orton/Cesaro on Main Event at some point this year was real good. Don't remember when, but it was the one that C2D pimped out. I can't believe that the spectrum has changed so much here that I probably defend Orton more than most others, and I am not a fan of the man at all. As boring as his character may be, he has had strong matches this year.

Del Rio has good chemistry with Mysterio, Christian, Big Show (except their awful 2011 match), Punk, Ziggler, and Cena (except their Christmas disaster). The 11/28/11 match with Punk is loads of fun, LilOlMe. Has a cool Eddie Guerrero allusion too. Del Rio/Orton at HIAC is good too minus the botch. Has anyone seen a single one of his Dos Caras Jr. matches?

Next three DDP matches on my list coming soon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> lets never give a reason to have Greg try and revel in my humbling again. Please and thank you. :woolcock


?? What'd I do ?

Show/ADR LMS sd is still pretty good. Love the concept, simple just constructive and they struck gold with the match that going into some would think it was a DUD

:lmao @ the fact the only thought to them self lets DO the COMPLETE same thing just on PPV, even the same gimmick, that one is a DUD


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm not drunk and I haven't snapped. I just haven't slept properly in about 5 months AND IM LOSING MY MIND. My opinions remain the same though.

Havn't seen many Cesaro matches tihs year at all. Kofi match was unbelievable. How the fuck does ANYONE get that kind of match out of Kofi fuckingshittybastart Kingston? Incredible. Bryan match in that gauntlet thingy was tops too. UPPERCUTS OF DOOM.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I might try and make a BRICK FROG chant too. We'll see how the folks of Southern California pick up on that.
> 
> Hmm. I could... Hook me up with a link and maybe I'll give it a whirl late tonight. Got enough stored up on tap already, and there is no way I'm falling more and more behind on the G1 Climax atm. However, I'm up late often and need something random to watch usually. This could suffice.
> 
> ...


Unless they're a bunch of utter window lickers it should be well received.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwo8ry_wwe-smackdown-1-11-13-part-5-6-hq_sport (8.30 onwards)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwo944_wwe-smackdown-1-11-13-part-6-6-hq_sport (part 2)

Did you ever watch Breaks/Street '72? Because if not YOU'RE KILLING ME MAN. One of the best matches of the 70s I've ever seen. Right there alongside Lawler/Race '77 and not far off the Backlund/Valentine 2/19/79 broadway. I might just prefer the Funks/Abdullah & Sheik tags in late 70s All Japan but not much else would be seen as better for my money.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cody you liked Cesaro/Sheamus II more than the Main Event match didn't you? WOOLCOCK did you watch those?

Yeah fuck it, straight to Cesaro/Zayn II.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Is Cesaro/Zayn I essential viewing or should I just go ahead and watch the rematch?


Not completely essential. Just knowing Zayn caught Cesaro with a roll up to win the original is basically the backstory. Cesaro is keen to watch out for that slip up come the rematch. Just watch part II atm and revel in the glory.

In regards to Cesaro vs Sheamus: I was a touch bigger on the Main Event match than I was the Smackdown one, but both are rather tremendous.

-----------

Corey, it's WM XIX. Of course it holds up. :mark:

_(subject towards the main event being what it was for a different time)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SOMEONE GIVE ME DATES OF ALL NXT SHOWS THIS YEAR WITH SHIT ON IT WORTH WATCHING. DO IT OR I'LL BE ALL UPSET.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Del Rio has good chemistry with Mysterio, Christian, *Big Show (except their awful 2011 match)*, Punk, Ziggler, and Cena (except their Christmas disaster). The 11/28/11 match with Punk is loads of fun, LilOlMe. Has a cool Eddie Guerrero allusion too. Del Rio/Orton at HIAC is good too minus the botch. *Has anyone seen a single one of his Dos Caras Jr. matches?*


Which one? The "FUCK, this match is so boring" one, Capitol Punishment or the steel cage one from 27/6?

And yeah, I've seen one Dos Caras match. The one where he gets his head kicked in by Cro Cop. :adr


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Ownage, they show you the finish to the first match in the lead-up to the rematch. Callback spot in rematch was great where Cesaro catches the fluke win attempt the second time around.

@ redskins - Cody meant me (I'm Greg as well )


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Is Cesaro/Zayn I essential viewing or should I just go ahead and watch the rematch?


Not terribly. Sub ten minute affair which doesn't really progress out of first gear. Its harmless and has a couple of nice sequences but its definitely nothing more than the introduction to their mini series on NXT.



Callamus said:


> I'm not drunk and I haven't snapped. I just haven't slept properly in about 5 months AND IM LOSING MY MIND. My opinions remain the same though.


I'm sticking to my drunk theory. Del Rio/Show Smackdown LMS is a corker of a match, you rascal.



Saint Dick said:


> Cody you liked Cesaro/Sheamus II more than the Main Event match didn't you? WOOLCOCK did you watch those?


I haven't seen either match. Said I was going to like 6 weeks ago and in a total non-shocker I got sidetracked and put it on the back-burner indefinitely. FWIW I'm sure the ME match gets the general plaudits with the Smackdown match being another strong addition but a step below their ME match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ME matches with workers of their caliber typically get more time so I'm not surprised the ME match is heralded over the SD one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Unless they're a bunch of utter window lickers it should be well received.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwo8ry_wwe-smackdown-1-11-13-part-5-6-hq_sport (8.30 onwards)
> 
> ...


You never know sometimes. I don't trust people to not be stupid. California or not.

I watch some stuff with him but I'm sure it wasn't that match.  so...FUCK x2. Officially killed.

CAL I'll do that NXT shit if you bear with me. I'm...bleh atm. I'll see what I can conjure up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> @ redskins - Cody meant me (I'm Greg as well )


gotcha

Zayn/Cesaro 1 is ok nothing special IMO, I liked Zayn/Cesaro 2 alot as I think most do ? cant wait for part 3 that is in a week ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. Tony Chimel just announced "please welcome WWE's favorite band in the world... Limp Bizkit!" :lmao You know that was Durst's idea.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I think it's next week. Apparently they were getting "MOTY" chants afterwards. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

****1/4 for the activity in this thread right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only this time the fans will probably be in the right. b/c that Paige vs Emma match fucking sucked.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> .I watch some stuff with him but I'm sure it wasn't that match.  so...FUCK x2. Officially killed.


:leslie

If I wasn't such a birk myself when it comes to keeping to a promise to watch a match (some bloke PM'd me like 2 months back to watch a match he loved and I told him I'd do it by the evening..never happened) then I'd be scolding you over this grave error in judgement.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> :leslie
> 
> If I wasn't such a birk myself when it comes to keeping to a promise to watch a match (some bloke PM'd me like 2 months back to watch a match he loved and I told him I'd do it by the evening..never happened) then I'd be scolding you over this grave error in judgement.


At least we can all be happy that Ishii vs Shibata was watched ASAP and we got to praise all over that one. Content? 

Oh and Cal, fuck your not-so-yankee blue jeans here you go:



Spoiler: NXT stuff



NXT:
1) Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - 1/2

2) Trent Barreta vs Leo Kruger - 1/16

3) Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel vs Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow - 1/16

4) Adrian Neville & Oliver Grey vs Heath Slater & Drew McIntyre - 1/23

5) Kassius Ohno & Leo Kruger vs Alex Riley & Derrick Bateman - 1/30

6) Summer Rae vs Paige - 2/13

7) Xavier Woods vs El Local - 2/20

8) Justin Gabriel vs Leo Kruger - 2/27

9) Corey Graves vs Conor O'Brien - 2/27

10) Conor O'Brien vs Corey Graves vs Bo Dallas - 3/6

11) Kassius Ohno vs Derrick Bateman - 3/13

12) Bo Dallas vs Bray Wyatt - 3/13

13) Leo Kruger vs Justin Gabriel - 3/20

14) Luke Harper vs Adrian Neville - 3/20

15) Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - 4/3

16) Paige & Sasha Banks vs Summer Rae & Audrey Marie - 4/3

17) Leo Kruger vs Justin Gabriel - 4/17

18) Emma vs Bayley - 4/17

19) Lumberjack Match
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - 4/17

20) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Wade Barrett(c) vs Bo Dallas - 4/24

21) Paige vs Summer Rae - 5/1

22) Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt - 5/1

23) Paige vs Bayley - 5/8

24) NXT Tag Team Championship
Adrian Neville & Bo Dallas(c) vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan - 5/8

25) Summer Rae vs Natalya Neidhart - 5/15

26) Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - 5/22

27) Bray Wyatt vs Corey Graves - 5/22

28) NXT Championship
Big E. Langston vs Bo Dallas - 6/12

29) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs Kassius Ohno, Adrian Neville, & Corey Graves - 6/19

30) Kassius Ohno & Corey Graves vs Scott Dawson & Garrett Dylan - 6/26

31) NXT Championship
Bo Dallas(c) vs Antonio Cesaro - 7/3

34) Emma vs Summer Rae - 7/10

33) Leo Kruger vs Sami Zayn - 7/10

33) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs William Regal, Adrian Neville, & Corey Graves - 7/10

34) Leo Kruger vs Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - 7/17

35) NXT Tag Team Championship
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan(c) vs Adrian Neville & Corey Graves - 7/17



Obviously Sheamus vs Harper makes the cut too. It didn't air yet when I made the list.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> At least we can all be happy that Ishii vs Shibata was watched ASAP and we got to praise all over that one. Content?


The podgy japanese hero may have saved you for today, but I expect you to watch Breaks/Street in the not too distant future


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

One more question. How was this match?:


> 2/20/11 Kofi Kingston vs. Albert Del Rio ***1/4





funnyfaces1 said:


> Del Rio has good chemistry with Mysterio, Christian, Big Show (except their awful 2011 match), Punk, Ziggler, and Cena (except their Christmas disaster). The 11/28/11 match with Punk is loads of fun, LilOlMe. Has a cool Eddie Guerrero allusion too. Del Rio/Orton at HIAC is good too minus the botch. Has anyone seen a single one of his Dos Caras Jr. matches?


Thank you. I saw one Dos Caras Jr. match. It's the one where he broke that Kengo Watanabe guy's arm within, like, 40 seconds. One of his MMA matches. Would be interesting to see more of his Mexican stuff, but I have so much WWE stuff to get through first.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> One more question. How was this match?:


Opener from Elimination Chamber? Don't remember it being anything special. Fine opener but nothing memorable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> The podgy japanese hero may have saved you for today, but I expect you to watch Breaks/Street in the not too distant future


I'm slightly intrigued to do so atm. NOT To get any hopes up, but I'm just saying. In the random mood atm. Jumping from one bit to another on what tickles my fancy. To further the appeasing, lots of Tajiri always comes up. Been in the mood to rewatch the bout vs Finlay. If not Tajiri's work circa 1999. That one is for Yeah1993 too.



LilOlMe said:


> One more question. How was this match?


Meh. Not really worth your time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Has this been the best year for TV matches? It has to be up there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, and likely one of the worst for PPV, unfortunately. (N)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wow this thread is really active. 

I still need to get on that Cesaro/Zayn. Could anyone give me the air dates? I'll download the full shows. Also, I'm glad to see that there are others who see nothing special in Paige/Emma. Thought I was the only one. The match sucked and felt as if I were watching the standard Diva affair. Nothing is gonna top AJ/Kaitlyn from Payback,NOTHING.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goddammit, C2D. Why did you have to remind me of that Capitol Punishment (fitting name) match? I was talking about their RAW match that went on for too long, but that was awful too. The Cage match was pretty bad until :henry1 saved us all.

*TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*



Spoiler: last14



http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18657002-post13849.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18492034-post13378.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/20987321-post18635.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/22229145-post615.html

#20: w/ Chris Benoit vs. Raven/Saturn (2/19/98) 
#19: Vs. Kanyon/Jeff Jarrett (Superbrawl 01) 
#18: Vs. Chavo Guerrero (Fall Brawl 96)
#17: Vs. Eddy Guerrero (Starrcade 96)
#16: w/ Kanyon vs. Benoit/Saturn (GAB 99) 
#15: Vs. Johnny B. Badd (World War III 95) 
#14: Vs. Chris Benoit (2/5/98)
#13: Jersey Triad vs. Benoit/Saturn (Bash At The Beach 99)
#12: vs. Goldberg (4/19/99)
#11: Vs. Bret Hart (10/26/98)
#10: Vs. Raven (Spring Stampede 98)
#9: Vs. Sting (3/23/98)
#8: Vs. Bret Hart (8/17/98)
#7: Vs. Chris Benoit (Superbrawl 1998)


*6. Vs. Randy Savage (Great American Bash 1997)*










The second match of their historic series. Main event of a stacked PPV here, and this one is a falls count anywhere match. The action here is fast and furious rock2), and it works to their benefit. This time, DDP is not afraid to employ the same tactics that Savage used in their first match and fully utilize the lack of rules. However, Savage is always one step further in that regard, but Page’s heart and desire keeps him in the race. Lots of callback spots here from their initial match that are worth noticing. In addition, this match features DDP’s signature injured ribs that Savage works over as he should. Also worth noting that Savage snaps harder than he did before, but Page matches his intensity all throughout. The nWo vs. DDP dynamic is played off much more here than in their previous match, but DDP is so good at fighting when he’s the underdog that you really believe he has a chance against the numbers. Ending here is one of the better ones that we have seen in an nWo era main event match.

*5. Vs. Randy Savage (Spring Stampede 1997)*










The start of DDP’s most famous feud and easily one of the greatest feuds in company history. Although there was no title involved here and Page wasn’t even a big time player at this point, these two got to main event in a no-disqualifications fight. Macho brought out a side of him that we really haven’t seen since his Intercontinental Title days in the mid-80s with his constant weapon shots and vicious demeanor. The man will even use Page’s own wife to get even the smallest of offense in. 

But this match isn’t just about Macho. This is about DDP fighting for his honor. Every time this man takes a bump, I have to cringe at the way he screams and flops around. Every time DDP hits a move, he has no choice but to collapse in his own exhaustion. If you’re a person that pays a lot of attention to detail, you will love all the things Page does to garner every bit of sympathy from you, as well as every way Savage bends the situation to his favor and uses the stipulation to full effect. Spectacular match here that is devoid of all the stupid illogical nonsense that can clutter a match of its stipulation. But that is not a surprise considering who is in this match.

*4. Vs. Goldberg (Halloween Havoc 1998)*










The match that everybody has been waiting for on this list, and for good reason. This is arguably the best main event of the nWo era and DDP’s most famous match. It is also the best example I could ever think of of a match that maximized all the possible talent. Such a smartly booked face/face world title match where both guys look awesome. Goldberg uses his physical prowess to its full effect while Page uses his excellent scouting ability and intelligence to counteract the beast. As a result, we get this cool little dynamic of the monster face vs. the underdog challenger. It’s especially emphasized in the renown spear barricade spot as well as the jackhammer-*DIAMOND CUTTER* reversal. Also nice to see limbwork and consistent selling in a *GOLDBERG* match of all things. Most of you have seen this match before, but if you haven’t, please do yourself a favor and watch the hell out of this classic. Only about 13 minutes, but the best 13 minutes you will see.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ sharkboy A guy posted the links a few pages back if you don't want to d/l the entire show. I think they're from June.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> @ sharkboy A guy posted the links a few pages back if you don't want to d/l the entire show. I think they're from June.


Thanks but I don't mind downloading the entire show. Their first encounter was on 5/22. That same show there was a match between Wyatt and Greaves. Also, it appeared as if Sami wrestled twice that night in an opening match with Hawkins. I'm not sure if that was pre-show though. 

Speaking of Sami, goddammit why did they have to call Generico that? was really hoping Callihan would have gotten to keep his name. I highly doubt we could have two Samis on the same roster lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE had to make things complicated with Callihan & Generico on the roster. I'm still holding out hope they make them an odd couple tag team called "THE TWO SAMI'S" and their gimmick will be basically treated like a sitcom.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the answers!



funnyfaces1 said:


> *9. Vs. Sting (3/23/98)*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That seems to be considered Sting's best match as Crow Sting. Do you agree with that?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If DDP vs Goldberg wasn't #1 on the DDP list then atm I'm drawing a blank at what can have it beat. Probably the match vs Sting in 1999 that went 20 minutes & is fantastic.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> WWE had to make things complicated with Callihan & Generico on the roster. I'm still holding out hope they make them an odd couple tag team called "THE TWO SAMI'S" and their gimmick will be basically treated like a sitcom.


I will mark for that. if there's two guys that can pull off something as silly as that, it's them. Even if they change his name, I'm really, really hoping that he gets to keep the character.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I agree with Cody, with the Goldberg HH match at #4, other than the '99 Nitro match with Sting, fuck knows what's gonna take up those other spots.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Only this time the fans will probably be in the right. b/c that Paige vs Emma match fucking sucked.


If you're talking 'bout the tournament finals, go to hell Cody :stuff


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm slightly intrigued to do so atm. NOT To get any hopes up, but I'm just saying. In the random mood atm. Jumping from one bit to another on what tickles my fancy. To further the appeasing, lots of Tajiri always comes up. Been in the mood to rewatch the bout vs Finlay. If not Tajiri's work circa 1999. That one is for Yeah1993 too.


I'm getting my hopes up and expecting them to be dashed. Even TLK watched Chicana/Perro Aguayo from '86 and Seabs has been sitting on that one for months. Must be why he's supplying me with Jenna Louise Coleman daily. Softening me up to excuse his slacking. That machiavellian fiend.

Tajiri vs Super Crazy, Mexican Death Match, ECW (1/21/00)
Tajiri vs Super Crazy vs Little Guido, ECW (4/14/00)
Tajiri vs Steve Corino, ECW Hardcore Heaven (5/14/00)
Tajiri vs Psicosis, ECW (8/25/00)
Tajiri vs El Lobo Andy Anderson, IWA (12/15/01)

^ all worth watching. Tajiri/Psicosis is the best of the bunch but he's amazing in all of them. He's violent evil little shit in the 1/21 match and has one of the most inventive spots involving a table and a chair I've ever seen. The triple threat might be my favourite triple threat ever for the sheer insanity and pace at which they work out. Tajiri's amazing mannerisms and creative offence manage to ensure some structure and themes dominate the sequences and Guido takes an absolute pasting in particular. The Corino match is harrowing for Corino's bladejob and is arguably the best presentation of Tajiri you could hope for. He's psychotic and terrifying and yet Corino is still unquestionably the guy you want to see get his head taken off. The El Lobo match is more a Tajiri carryjob off memory but still a great showing nonetheless.

Ah Tajiri/Finlay. Best match from Japan last year for my money, which no doubt seems shocking to some given the rise of New Japan that year internationally.



Saint Dick said:


> Has this been the best year for TV matches? It has to be up there.


Certainly been consistent. 2009 had Christian & Regal on ECW, the summer of Smackdown with the fabulous Punk/Morrison series & Punk/Hardy in the Cage. Bourne/Morrison 4/14 on ECW is excellent and the 4/7 6 man featuring Bourne w/ The Colons vs Kidd w/ Miz & Morrison is a fun sprint. Sheamus/Goldust have a very fun series down in ECW prior to Sheamus' debut on Raw. Can't truthfully recall much from Raw that year mind.

2010 & 2011 both were strong years in terms of Superstars & Smackdown and to a lesser degree Raw. Bryan, Sheamus, Henry, Bourne, Cena, Mysterio, Punk, Mcintyre, Christian & Masters were all responsible for some tremendous output on TV in particular.

2013 has had a strong start mind you. Raw has been the strongest its been since '04 in terms of week to week match quality with the additional hour, Smackdown isn't the force it was 3 years ago but has still produced some strong outings and NXT/Main Event are both strong C shows which have afforded the likes of Regal, Cesaro & Zayn more opportunities to showcase their talent. Bryan's rise since May with the resurgance of the Shield feud produced a plethora of strong multiman tags that felt like the closest we've had to recapturing the magic of Evolution vs The World & with 4 months left there's still plenty of time for the consistency to be maintained.

PPV has been horrid mind you.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Payback and Money in the Bank were good shows but yeah, the PPVs have been disappointing. Summerslam has a ton of potential.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

If SummerSlam doesn't deliver then I dunno what to think anymore.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Worst of all is how *epic* was match quality on PPV's was last year, and then we get to this 1 year later.

Cena/Lesnar, Punk/Bryan, Sheamus/Bryan, Hell No & Ryback/Shield, Taker/HHH, Sheamus/Show, etc. are all 2012.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Wow this thread is really active.
> 
> I still need to get on that Cesaro/Zayn. Could anyone give me the air dates? I'll download the full shows. Also, I'm glad to see that there are others who see nothing special in Paige/Emma. Thought I was the only one. The match sucked and felt as if I were watching the standard Diva affair. *Nothing is gonna top AJ/Kaitlyn from Payback,NOTHING.*


I felt that Summer Rae/Paige did from earlier this year. Not sure of the date but that match was rather good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Goddammit, C2D. Why did you have to remind me of that Capitol Punishment (fitting name) match? I was talking about their RAW match that went on for too long, but that was awful too. The Cage match was pretty bad until :henry1 saved us all.


In other words, it's indeed the "Fuck, this match is so boring" one from 31/10 that you are talking about. The reason I refer to it as that is because I forgot Raw started one hour earlier that day and when I tuned in, it was midway through the Show/Del Rio match and everybody was talking about how boring it is in the Raw thread. Just in case you wanted to know. 

Since then, I haven't been able to ever forget about that match's existence.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> If you're talking 'bout the tournament finals, go to hell Cody :stuff


Not my fault it was trash. :heyman2



WOOLCOCK said:


> I'm getting my hopes up and expecting them to be dashed. Even TLK watched Chicana/Perro Aguayo from '86 and Seabs has been sitting on that one for months. Must be why he's supplying me with Jenna Louise Coleman daily. Softening me up to excuse his slacking. That machiavellian fiend.
> 
> Tajiri vs Super Crazy, Mexican Death Match, ECW (1/21/00)
> Tajiri vs Super Crazy vs Little Guido, ECW (4/14/00)
> ...


Oh you get your belly aching. I may just surprise you. Leaving Seabs transgressions in the dust.

The Corino match was the pop up from '99 right off the bat. In accordance to the Super Crazy feud. The Psicosis match is a total blur, so if that one is the best then yep. I have to catch onto that on right quick. Is the IWA one even up on a streaming site? Not sure which IWA that's going to be.

It's up there for me too. It even could be my favorite from last year too. It does have competition with Okada vs Naito from the Anniversary show & Tanahashi vs Suzuki from KOPW. Those were my favorites from New Japan. Didn't have the resources to keep up with anything else from the whole of Japan last year, so catching the gem that was SMASH's final match was certainly one I was glad to see. It didn't even have to be as good as it was and I still would have jumped for joy at the match occurring. Doesn't matter to me how quiet the audience was too. It's ridiculously swell.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Old ECW matches? Wouldn't mind checking those out.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Payback and Money in the Bank were good shows but yeah, the PPVs have been disappointing. Summerslam has a ton of potential.


They've struggled to replicate Punk's consistency in terms of PPV matches last year mixed with some strong supporting matches e.g Cena/Lesnar, Sheamus/Bryan & Show/Sheamus. The midcard generally isn't afforded the same room to steal the spotlight generally these days and it seems more and more apparent that the main event matches have to deliver to elevate a PPV into 'great' territory. Much of the undercard is just serviceable filler and a handful of top performers need to be booked in the right matches in order to produce the best results. Bryan's best efforts have come on TV ala The Shield and strong TV performers like Sheamus & Cesaro have again been handicapped in terms of PPV time to replicate their TV output.

Summerslam does look super mind you. Bryan/Cena should be excellent given the character dynamic, even if heel Bryan vs face Cena might be the strongest dynamic they could run. Punk/Lesnar will hopefully do away with the Lesnar/HHH 'epic' mindset and be worked more closely to Cena/Lesnar, with Punk absorbing a plethora of punishment and valiantly trying to find an opening. Christian/Del Rio could be really good if they get decent time and Christian gets to sell a limb. Shield tag vs face Henry and a partner could be good depending on time and even Wyatt/Kane has far more going for it in terms of character presentation and storytelling than a typical undercard match these days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Last year even had the advent of a few random Cesaro PPV squashes which worked. Sure, two were with a drone in R-Truth, but I mean, Cesaro even made those at least a bit more engrossing than usual. Then there was the very rad match vs Justin Gabriel from HIAC. If only more gems like that were scattered on the undercard. These WWE PPVs would be bumping if you had that with more than serviceable main events. Matches the like of Ziggler vs Del Rio in the final slot & undercard matches which get just enough time to be special and WWE would be riding a killer wave of momentum. It feels like such a simple problem to fix, yet, we're stuck with fairly mediocre PPVs as the general curve. If not bad all the way through.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Not my fault it was trash. :heyman2


Trash? Did we even watch the same match? :heyman

Though I admit I'm biased - Emma does the Muta Lock, and ANY chick that does it, well or bad, is a queen in my eyes :hayley2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ppv main events this year have been horrible, that whats killing them, undercards been good-great


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^
Royal Rumble was on its way of becoming ok... then Punkock happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match was prototypical "divas don't do this often so it's like REALLY good b/c of it" type nonsense. The match WWE faithful see once in a blue moon and go gaga for when there is nothing of note or substance that makes it good. The majority of the match is sprawling around trying to figure out what to do. Random submission here. Random submission there. Lots of nearfall attempts. Meh. How about adding something integral to the story? You know that thing that needs to be accompanied by matches to work. Then good heaven's they did a superplex. My goodness that must mean it's a stellar contest now. The commentary line at the end of the match completely sums up why I disliked it.

_"These ladies traded submissions & even did a Superplex to try and win!" _

Umm. Yeah and? This is wrestling. Those are wrestling moves. You see random submissions in any match really. Why is it such a big deal when two ladies do it? Especially when it meant nothing. It's that same fabricated crap all over again. It's mentalities like this which made some think Trish & Lita were "really great wrestlers" too all b/c they threw in a move you didn't see every day and that's supposed to up the quality of things. It's stupid. Especially when NXT this year has had about 5 matches way better than this. Some where the crowds didn't even give a damn, yet it's happening right in front of them. Somehow I had the funny feeling this match wouldn't live up to any hype. It's the ones that never get talked about - pardon the AJ vs Kaitlyn match from Payback - that you'll find the gems. Heck, there was a short Layla vs Aksana match this year that honestly was a better match. Probably b/c it wasn't terrible, but hey, it was fine for what it was. Paige vs Emma, was not. Poorly worked and nothing to talk about whatsoever. Really bad finish too. No drama whatsoever, despite the fans being hot for it. That's another thing where I do believe perception was warped. Fans cared. Insert "omg" b/c of that 'rare' occurrence. 

That last line was peppered with sarcasm.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It's up there for me too. It even could be my favorite from last year too. It does have competition with Okada vs Naito from the Anniversary show & Tanahashi vs Suzuki from KOPW. Those were my favorites from New Japan. Didn't have the resources to keep up with anything else from the whole of Japan last year, so catching the gem that was SMASH's final match was certainly one I was glad to see. It didn't even have to be as good as it was and I still would have jumped for joy at the match occurring. Doesn't matter to me how quiet the audience was too. It's ridiculously swell.


Adored it myself. Just loved how they built it around Finlay controlling Tajiri and desperately trying to circumnavigate his kicks. Bit where Tajiri briefly tees off only for Finlay to counter and remain in control before feverishly rubbing his leg during a submission just typified the match for me. Fact it was SMASH's final show also added to the finishing stretch with Tajiri valiantly trying to achieve the perfect sendoff for the company.



The Lady Killer said:


> Old ECW matches? Wouldn't mind checking those out.


Crazy/Tajiri (1/21/00) - http://www.mediafire.com/download/o...+Yoshihiro+Tajiri++-+ECW+On+TNN+1.21.00+-.avi

Tajiri/Guido/Crazy (4/14/00) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u81DI7E_w_o

Tajiri/Corino (5/14/00) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0WLLd09i9U

Tajiri/Psicosis (8/25/00) - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1fet6_ecw-2000-tajiri-vs-psicosis_news?search_algo=2

Tajiri/El Lobo (12/15/01) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0EtwBJNlfg


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^  Thanks!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tried to find a stream link for the Mexican Death Match but came up empty-handed sorry, so a download link is all I can provide atm 

Tajiri/Psicosis, Tajiri/Corino & Tajiri/Crazy in that order imo in terms of truly must see from those five. But the 3 way and '01 match are both hugely enjoyable and in terms of the 3 way truly chaotic.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Look forward to watching these later. :mark:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I can describe the Tajiri/Psicosis match as having more than one moment where Tajiri decides Psicosis doesn't require the use of his cock and bollocks anymore and pulverises them with some frightening brutality.

You'll lose your mind when you see the aforementioned table/chair spot in Tajiri/Crazy. Most inventive use of a chair since Lawler/Mantell No DQ in '82 and the fact they narrowly avoid decapitating someone is a true blessing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Adored it myself. Just loved how they built it around Finlay controlling Tajiri and desperately trying to circumnavigate his kicks. Bit where Tajiri briefly tees off only for Finlay to counter and remain in control before feverishly rubbing his leg during a submission just typified the match for me. Fact it was SMASH's final show also added to the finishing stretch with Tajiri valiantly trying to achieve the perfect sendoff for the company.


It's funny how I stumbled upon it too. I think I was just surfing the net on random wrestling results sites per usual and then I kind of got the urge to see what Tajiri had done recently. Then I saw he worked vs Finlay and IMMEDIATELY had to scope the match out. I didn't even know SMASH went under until I caught wind of the match and the show, tbhayley. Then I watched. Boy oh boy. Did those two deliver like I had to know they would. Finlay isn't human. Who stays that good at that age? No matter where in the world he's working - he's going to kill it. Except for in ROH. See, that's why the promotion these days leaves me a bit sour. He goes there and has like his only low point post-WWE tenure. How does that happen? Meh. I'm not a Michael Elgin fan, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. 

I trailed off into a separate Finlay tangent there, but yeah, you're dead on with the points about the match. I really thought Tajiri was going to win it to get the championship and close the company on that note alone.

Cheers for the links too. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It's funny how I stumbled upon it too. I think I was just surfing the net on random wrestling results sites per usual and then I kind of got the urge to see what Tajiri had done recently. Then I saw he worked vs Finlay and IMMEDIATELY had to scope the match out. I didn't even know SMASH went under until I caught wind of the match and the show, tbhayley. Then I watched. Boy oh boy. Did those two deliver like I had to know they would. Finlay isn't human. Who stays that good at that age? No matter where in the world he's working - he's going to kill it. Except for in ROH. See, that's why the promotion these days leaves me a bit sour. He goes there and has like his only low point post-WWE tenure. How does that happen? Meh. I'm not a Michael Elgin fan, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
> 
> I trailed off into a separate Finlay tangent there, but yeah, you're dead on with the points about the match. I really thought Tajiri was going to win it to get the championship and close the company on that note alone.
> 
> Cheers for the links too. (Y)


Forgot to mention the brilliant tarantula counter as well on Finlay's part. Match was just built logically and developed nicely with each passing sequence and culminated in a frenzied and spirited babyface comeback and leaving you questioning whether Finlay could truly withstand Tajiri's offence. Compare the simplicity in creating a long running narrative in that manner with endless strike exchanges in current puro and its remarkable how so many persist with the latter over the former. Guys like Kawada, Hashimoto & Tenryu could make strike exchanges into a long running theme of establishing gradual parity, whereas today's generation establish parity immediately and then ram that point home at every opportunity. What I'd give for some wrestler to just punch a guy square in the jaw during a chop sequence and then build to the next exchange for his eventual comeuppance.

No worries, I try and do my bit around these parts


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah well I don't really feel the love for Cesaro/Kingston. As for the Sheamus matches, they're both great but I definitely liked the Ziggler bout more. Might have something to do with the fact that *Dolph is my favorite thing going right now.* The Payback classic won me over and then some.


:mark:

Obviously Ziggler's my favorite thing going right now, he's been my favorite wrestler in the company since 2009. It sucks to see that WWE are ruining his momentum by sticking him in a feud with AJ and Big E, when Ziggler should still be in the World Title picture as he's the hottest he's even been in his career right now, his face turn his fresh, and he's putting on the best work of his career at the moment. Let's hope this whole feud with AJ and Big E can end ASAP so Ziggler can get back into the World Title picture before they totally ruin his momentum.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Forgot to mention the brilliant tarantula counter as well on Finlay's part. Match was just built logically and developed nicely with each passing sequence and culminated in a frenzied and spirited babyface comeback and leaving you questioning whether Finlay could truly withstand Tajiri's offence. Compare the simplicity in creating a long running narrative in that manner with endless strike exchanges in current puro and its remarkable how so many persist with the latter over the former. Guys like Kawada, Hashimoto & Tenryu could make strike exchanges into a long running theme of establishing gradual parity, whereas today's generation establish parity immediately and then ram that point home at every opportunity. What I'd give for some wrestler to just punch a guy square in the jaw during a chop sequence and then build to the next exchange for his eventual comeuppance.
> 
> No worries, I try and do my bit around these parts


I think that's just the nature of the beast that is "modernizing" wrestling. It's no different _(granted potentially more obnoxious given your tastes)_ when you see where some lads are taking wrestling in America to. Yes, this is hoping on board the same ol Davey Richards is a fucking twat stuff, but the point is driven home for a reason. And he's hardly the only guy who has this flaw attached to him. A lot do, even some good ones, and that's the real drastic or unfortunate part about it. All of this "we're gonna strike the ever loving piss out of each other and come back for more while this reaches engrossing levels of time without any proper build or succession behind it". It feels like the advent of MMA in the mainstream has forced some to want to either incorporate that free spirit grappling mentality in with the wrestling or try and create a more "balls to the wall" type environment to matches in general. This over the top more moves the better stuff isn't going to cut it. Taking the time to throttle back is ALWAYS a positive. It doesn't matter in what general capacity the match is trying to be worked; slow and steady always wins the race. _(and it doesn't have to be "slow", per say)_

Look at Ishii vs Shibata. That was worked under a format most seem to be over with these days. Done to death no selling strike wars and continuous FIGHTING SPIRIT for the hell of it. However it was done & timed correctly. Some could say perfectly. That's why it worked. Much like any formula for a match: it must be worked correctly. You can't go all willy nilly with anything like that out in the ring or else it's random hoopla. I know I personally don't want to see that. Some could. They're getting catered to what they like to see or don't mind seeing. Where as the rest who don't are forced to kind of give up on whoever & where ever these new "traits" of wrestling are appearing. That goes for all over the world. I miss the days where some workers were more like Finlay or the legends you dropped like a Kawada or a Tenryu where you got some young pup trying to work that way and then BLAST. One rugged shot knocks them down psychically and mentally a few pegs. It's that shot of reality _(literally..ha ha)_ that needs to come back. I'm not saying wrestling is dying all around us in this day and age, however, there are certain places and wrestlers who really aren't doing it any favors.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Agreed. These strike exchange orientated matches really require a strong character dynamic and in particular a wrestler who understands the intangibles that make a great worker to succeed. Kawada & Hashimoto were great at making themselves appear larger than life and the true embodiment of a company ace wrestler who immediately make their opponent more sympathetic as a result. Both knew how to dominate early but gradually feed their opponent more and more over the course of the match which would eventually build to a hot finish. It worked because they established a clear hierarchy which made each portion of the match integral to the overall theme. The beginning sees the plucky upstart overwhelmed in trying to hang with the ace, then the middle sees the ace control and dominance before gradually giving the opponent more in their comebacks and then peaking with the ace now back-peddling and looking less assured.

Tenryu however might just be the best at these matches. He might not be as good as Kawada/Hashimoto in terms of conveying that true 'company ace' aura (rather operating more as a vicious and aggressive force), but my god his facial expressions and mannerisms are perfect in communicating a story. Seeing him casually dismiss strikes in the opening with a nonchalant attitude only to then slowly react more and more with shock and genuine bewilderment with each passing exchange just perfectly accentuates the theme and makes the strike exchanges necessary in communicating the story.

Where modern wrestling fails in this regard is suffering from a clear cut ace who can believeably dominate and gradually show more vulnerability. Instead most exchanges are presented as even from the very beginning and therefore the exchanges thereafter struggle to pull the viewer in because you don't feel a true underdog or story emerging. Not much more is being achieved in the exchanges that couldn't be prevalent in a bomb throwing heavyweight spotfest or through mat exchanges. Even an egregious spot like the suplexes being thrown off in theory can work when timed perfectly and with the right two guys working the spot. Compare a young lion managing to overcome a Tenryu backdrop in order to hit a desperate lariat and immediately collapse vs two youngsters trading suplexes in the middle of the match where the heat is minimal and the finish is far away. Its easy to spot those that truly understand how to perfect the spot vs those who see the results it can but can't fathom how to pace and time it themselves to replicate the success they believe the spot entails.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> :mark:
> 
> Obviously Ziggler's my favorite thing going right now, he's been my favorite wrestler in the company since 2009. It sucks to see that WWE are ruining his momentum by sticking him in a feud with AJ and Big E, when Ziggler should still be in the World Title picture as he's the hottest he's even been in his career right now, his face turn his fresh, and he's putting on the best work of his career at the moment. Let's hope this whole feud with AJ and Big E can end ASAP so Ziggler can get back into the World Title picture before they totally ruin his momentum.


I literally hate everything about Dolph Ziggler, he is my least favorite wrestler and I never want to see him on my TV ever again











JK :hbk2

---
Tajiri/corino was pretty good thanks for the link woolcock/John Ralphio :lol. Watching that ddp/goldberg match in a few


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

No worries. Huge fan of it myself, namely for Tajiri's immense performance & Corino's sleazy and scummy character working perfectly in the environment. Seriously how great is Tajiri when it comes to mannerisms and genuinly portraying a psychotic and warped little shitbag? We've seen Edge, Michaels & Orton to various degrees fall apart when it comes to having to try and project strong mannerisms but Tajiri is as good at playing the psychotic villain/hero as I've encountered in wrestling. True overlooked talent.

Goldberg/DDP is fabulous btw. Page's best performance for me and a true testament to his ingenuity in laying out a match built around Goldberg's absurd power whilst affording himself the perfect amount of offence to look resilient and a conscious threat without detracting from Goldberg's aura and image which was the true route of success for the character. Page's various attempts to try and contain the rampaging champion make for a fun opening and the middle body of the match into the finishing stretch is seriously great. Diamond Cutter out of the Jackhammer is still one of the absolute best timed counters and nearfalls in a title match I can recall.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Agreed. These strike exchange orientated matches really require a strong character dynamic and in particular a wrestler who understands the intangibles that make a great worker to succeed. Kawada & Hashimoto were great at making themselves appear larger than life and the true embodiment of a company ace wrestler who immediately make their opponent more sympathetic as a result. Both knew how to dominate early but gradually feed their opponent more and more over the course of the match which would eventually build to a hot finish. It worked because they established a clear hierarchy which made each portion of the match integral to the overall theme. The beginning sees the plucky upstart overwhelmed in trying to hang with the ace, then the middle sees the ace control and dominance before gradually giving the opponent more in their comebacks and then peaking with the ace now back-peddling and looking less assured.
> 
> Tenryu however might just be the best at these matches. He might not be as good as Kawada/Hashimoto in terms of conveying that true 'company ace' aura (rather operating more as a vicious and aggressive force), but my god his facial expressions and mannerisms are perfect in communicating a story. Seeing him casually dismiss strikes in the opening with a nonchalant attitude only to then slowly react more and more with shock and genuine bewilderment with each passing exchange just perfectly accentuates the theme and makes the strike exchanges necessary in communicating the story.
> 
> Where modern wrestling fails in this regard is suffering from a clear cut ace who can believeably dominate and gradually show more vulnerability. Instead most exchanges are presented as even from the very beginning and therefore the exchanges thereafter struggle to pull the viewer in because you don't feel a true underdog or story emerging. Not much more is being achieved in the exchanges that couldn't be prevalent in a bomb throwing heavyweight spotfest or through mat exchanges. Even an egregious spot like the suplexes being thrown off in theory can work when timed perfectly and with the right two guys working the spot. Compare a young lion managing to overcome a Tenryu backdrop in order to hit a desperate lariat and immediately collapse vs two youngsters trading suplexes in the middle of the match where the heat is minimal and the finish is far away. Its easy to spot those that truly understand how to perfect the spot vs those who see the results it can but can't fathom how to pace and time it themselves to replicate the success they believe the spot entails.


It's funny b/c once I was reading the first two paragraphs I couldn't help but think of matches involving those listed and naturally the very first Finlay vs Sami Callihan match. Oh joy was that one built up properly. Goodness it gives me chills thinking about how great it is. That in a nutshell is the competence while working under the definitive format. I'm not saying it's easy. And you truly are at the top of your craft when you're doing it naturally and often as much as the people listed have done, but to negate the semblance of the story altogether is far and away too much of a no-no. Party foul in the sport of kings, if you will.

The aces lack altogether. Too many times these days do you see this even steven type match structure and it's leaving me to ask why more than going with it and having no questions to be asked. You have both lads intertwined in a power struggle, yet, the mantra of one has to fall won't come to pass. Even if one individual in the match has a wealth of experience over the other. This is exactly why I feel Matt Hardy is GROSSLY outworking a number of lads on the ROH roster in 2013. While some of the die-hard fans may not want to admit it, it really is true. He adds that structure to his matches. Don't think there has been that annoying back and forth display within one of his matches b/c he's usually the commanding lead of it. With good reason. He's the vet. He's using his tricks of the trade to build up his opponent and let it reach that point to where _(in the mapping of Tenryu)_ his confidence is so high, then before you know it as things wear on, it begins to slip. The comeback is forthcoming and things are just clicking well. As they should. That's what the building process was founded on. It wasn't a great match by any means, however Matt Hardy did just recently do this for Jay Briscoe on TV. In a big way. I was iffy on the overuse of Matt's finisher, however, the intentions were in the right place. Building up to the Jay comeback _(as Matt was in definitive control by virtue of the building blocks + Jay is legit injured, yada yada)_ and Matt did his role sufficiently well. All on him to make the match have that fleshed out element behind it and he did. This is the aspect that hit me like a ton of bricks so I figured I'd harp on it to get the point of this discussion upped again. For current means, at least.

Idk tbhayley why this can be so lost. The beauty of "even" clash of the titans matches where things aren't so quite clear cut is how they're a rare breed. Work when they know they can work. Losing effective formulas like that of how we are discussing is only going to lose a nice touch that wrestling has always brought. And its replacement isn't an engrossing one. By any means.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Done watched me Summerslam 2002 today. Not a single match under *** on the card imo, damn good show as everyone hypes it up to be. I think I'm one of the few who still thinks very highly of HBK/HHH but it's an absolute blast for me with a lot of replay value, plus I'm just a huge sucker for a hyped up brawl. 

Benoit/RVD is a nice shout on the underrated side of things but the true overlooked gem for me is Jericho/Flair, just a ton of fun with Flair being Flair and an awesome finish.


I don't see Brock/Rock as a classic like some do but it's a fun main event with a nice atmosphere nonetheless. Always nice to see THE GREAT ONE kick ass, and Rock is OK too I guess. brock:brock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs RVD & UnAmericans vs Goldust/Booker T are *Hot Fuzz* inspired levels of JESUS CHRIST in the underrated gem department.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2002 is just perfection. I have yet to rewatch HHH/HBK but for everything else:

Angle vs Rey - ★★★★
Flair vs Jericho - ★★★¼
Edge vs Eddie - ★★★¾
UnAmericans vs Booker & Goldust - ★★★¼
RVD vs Benoit - ★★★★
Undertaker vs Test - ★★★¼
Rock vs Brock - ★★★★¼

I'll have to see how well HHH/HBK holds up. It can either be MOTN or if I don't like it much similar to others here, it can go very low in the list.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see we're talking Summerslam '02 again :mark:

Un-Americans vs Bookdust and Test vs Taker were sleeper hits for me. I remember when I first watched SS '02 about three years ago. It was so damn good, I had to make a thread about. The thread basically stated that it was a forgotten or underrated event. Turns out, it was well received by all. Silly me lol. Hey, but in my defense, at the time it seemed as if the only great PPVs anyone talked about was WM 17 and 19.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I go to the gym for 2 hours and now this place is dead NOOOOOO!

whats everyone watching on thus rainy Thursday ?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Goldust and Booker T had some really good matches as a team. They're both solid guys and they had really fun characters as well. And look who they were in the ring with there. It should come as no surprise that they had a good match. Actually Raw as a whole during that time had some really awesome tag matches. You had really good workers in the tag team division and when you had Raw only PPVs they got the chance to have lengthy matches. 

I wrote this up a few days ago and forgot to post it.


WWE Unforigven 2008


_ECW Championship Scramble_
*Matt Hardy vs. The Miz vs. Chavo Guerrero vs. Mark Henry(c) vs. Finlay*

This was all about Mark Henry and Matt Hardy, which really I was fine with becase they have really good chemistry with each other. Henry dominates a good chunk of the match and Hardy is the guy that the crowd is getting behind and cheering in to get te big win. Finlay entered the match last and changed that dynamic and created a situation where it briefly felt like anyone would be able to get the win, which was something that the match really needed. However this ended up with the match being all about Hardy and Henry, in this case we saw Matt try to keep Henry from pinning anyone else. The last five minutes were pretty awesome as it felt like the desperate struggle that it was meant to be. Really fun and exciting match. It also had the advantage of being the first scramble of the night.
****
*

_WWE Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Cryme Tyme vs. Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes(c)*

I was a lot more impressed with Cryme Tyme than I expected to be. I honestly was never impressed with them when they were in the WWE (actually I think JTG might still be employed). I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that they were actually a team wit the same gimmick and they clearly had been teaming together for a while because they did a bunch of a double team moves and they all looked good. The match ended up being a pretty standard tag team match, almost a southern style tag. Cryme Tyme did really well at first and it was fun, Ted and Cody cheated to gain control, we saw a solid control segment, and then a hot (and it actually was pretty hot) tag. This wasn't a great match but was really solid, both teams were actually teams and they wrestled a solidly structured match. 
***1/2*


_Unsanctioned Match:_
*Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels *

This was the gritty kind of street fight that street fights are supposed to feel like. The stipulation in place enhanced the feud and didn't act as a way to give the the chance to do a bunch of cool spots with weapons. Shawn fight like a guy should when someone [unches his wife in the face. Shawn was pretty great in all aspects of this one. I would say it's really high on his list of performances because he is different here than he normally is for his matches. Shawn is pissed and he wants to kill Jericho and that never changes. Honestly I don't know of Shawn ever tried to win the match. His strikes seemed a lot stiffer than normal and he just beat the shit out of Chris Jerico. He seemed like a different man in the ring here. I don't want to say that Jericho wasn't good, he took his beating like a champion, but this was Shawn's big peroformance. You don't see this kind of emotion in a match very often. Just an awesome brawl.
***** *



_WWE Championship Scramble_
*Jeff Hardy vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. The Brian Kendrick vs. MVP vs. Triple H(c)*

This was booked rather poorly. The two people that had a realistic chance of winning were Triple H and Jeff Hardy. Like the the ECW scramble the match should have revolved around the two of them but Triple H ended up entering the match last and the amazing chemisty between Jeff and Trips wasn't a part of this match until the very end. The finishing stretch was really exciting but the ending was one that left you scratching your head because it appears that Jeff Hardy just did something really stupid (which is sort of his thing when he's in the ring with Triple H but not like this). 

Shelton and MVP were almost non factors in the match, they had a few cool spots in the match but never really were factors and never seemed to have chance at winning. Kendrick was good, he got in offense early on and even scored a pin. As the match wore on he took a few good bumps. I was expecting a lot more from the guys in this match, I just thought they would be able to tell a more engrossing story. 
***1/2*



_Divas Championship Match:_
*Michelle McCool(c) vs. Maryse*

I can't honestly say that I gave this my full attention. It was better than a lot of what we see today but not by very much. That's really th extent of what I can say about it.
*No Rating*



_World Heavyweight Championship Scramble:_
*Batista vs. JBL vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho*

Great start to the match by having JBL and Batista start things out. It's between them and Cena and Big Show for main eventers with the worst chemistry. And the match really doesn't get much better. Rey brought a brief spark of excitement to the match but that's really the only positive. Jericho, understandably, doesn't play a major role at all. He takes one bump, lays on the floor, and then wins at the last second. Out of all 3 scrambles this one had the least exciting finish and virutally nothing of interest happening in the first 19 minutes. The worst scramble of the night and a really bad main event. 
**3/4 *​

Well this wasn't a very good show. Jericho/Michaels was awesome and the opener was really good. Overall the Scramble match failed to deliver the excitement that it should have.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

In Your House: Cold Day in Hell review:

HHH vs Flash Funk = **1/4
Rocky Maivia vs Mankind = ***
Ahmed Johnson vs N.O.D in a Gautlet match = *3/4
Ken Shamrock vs Vader = **3/4
Undertaker vs Stone Cold = ***

All in all, it's a pretty mediocre PPV, that was poorly hyped, with two filler matches. HHH finished his feud with Goldust and then ends up facing Flash Funk for a strange reason. Same with Rocky Maivia who went from losing the title to being booked in a random match with Mankind. I have no idea why Legion of Doom vs Hart Foundation wasn't in the main card. Gautlet match was very meh, not much to say about that one. Shamrock vs Vader had some good moments here and there as it was a stiff match (that punch from Vader near the end was executed perfectly) but felt too slow for the most part. It's weird to have Vader tap out but I guess that's one of the reasons why people sour on his WWE run. Main event was underwhelming and I understand why Taker and Austin never had good chemistry. Best thing about this match was the finish (tombstone reversals) and the Hart Foundation sitting on the front seats. The match itself consisted of too much headlock in the beginning by Austin and some decent leg work.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Going through my ECW 1996 pack. I just finished Cyberslam. I skipped a lot o shit 

Anyway, I can't help but not be amazed at Raven's work. He's so great at structuring these big, chaotic matches with outside interference. His match with Sandman was filled with so much bloody drama Raven is definitely my kind of worker and really is one of my all times favourites. The guy would have made a great addition to the RAW roster of '99. Would have been cool to see him in The Ministry. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the IWC at the time couldn't stop dreaming over the thought of Raven jumping ship from WCW just so that he could be a part of the Ministry.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We talk too much about Summerslam 2002 here. SS 2011 deserves more respect.

Kingston/Mysterio/Morrison vs. Truth/Miz/Rio: *****
Sheamus vs. Henry: ****1/2*
Kelly vs. Phoenix: *MEH*
Barrett vs. Bryan: ******
Orton vs. Christian: *****1/4*
Punk vs. Cena: *****1/2*

EDIT: Raven is a king. Man had one of the greatest gimmicks of all-time and is easily a top 10 mic worker as well as one of the greatest heels ever. The guy just understood how to be ruthless and evil without overdoing it. I hated the way that The Flock was utilized in WCW and Raven essentially was an uppercard jobber there, but he drew heat in an instant and his 1998 is full of one great match after another. Not gonna bother with his WWE run, although there are fun things there. Don't remember anything about his TNA stuff, but his ROH feud with Punk was glorious. If it wasn't for that, Punk would still be working somewhere in the Mid-South.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Ironically I started watching Summerslam 2011 earlier. Great show all around and Orton/Christian is a personal favorite.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't give a shit about 2011 other than Orton and Christian. Henry/Sheamus is worthy of a rewatch, though. Hear a lot of good things about it and I don't remember much other than the count-out ending. Funny to think at the time, everybody in this forum was up in arms and said Henry's only purpose should be putting face Sheamus over. Now the converse has happened with everybody jumping on the Henry wagon and Sheamus getting Cena level hate.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There way too many mixed reactions on Orton/Christian. But for me, it's a great event as well. Sheamus/Henry super-exceeded my expectations.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sheamus/Henry was fun to watch again. The guy in red right behind the barrier running for his life was hilarious.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ss 11 is one of my favorite ppv ever, absolutely adore the build, the two champs etc


Couple ratings
ziggler/dbryan br 10 **** 1/4
punk/ Rey cp 11 ****
miz/ Rey 7/11 ****1/4

- Totally changed my opinion on the match, love it and I really don't like too much mat-wrestling. Awesome seeing where theses two are now 

- is there a bad Rey/Punk match out there ? Only a handful of series I have above those.

- You want a fucking great MIZ match ?Is that possible ? Yes this one for the wwe champ is great and I totally recommend, great crowd and Rey is the man :mark:, its funny that he had a top 5 RAW match EVER in hour and a half later :lol


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Popped in just to say that in case anyone hasn't seen it, the new Foley doc is on Netflix, at least in the States. Can't speak for other countries. 

I've already seen it, and most folks that participate in this thread have also, but I could watch it over and over. 

Anyways, haven't watched much wrestling lately, but Greg's mentioning of Rey/MIZ (holy shit) intrigues me. Maybe I'll check out that before bed.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Got in the mood to YEAH1993 (yes that's a verb) some Tajiri matches.

Tajiri/Funaki vs. A-Train/Big Show

LMFAO at Big Show leaving the match to do some commentary. This is loads of fun for an almost-squash. Tensai does this cool thing where he catches Funaki's kick and pushes his head back. The Train Wreck is a real cool move.

Tajiri/Mysterio vs. A-Train/Big Show

God damn, A-Train was terrible here. Botched every move he did here. Big Show was pretty damn awesome in the sidelines though. Tajiri is so good at the hot tag. Love the springboards and kicks when they're turned up to 11. Couldn't find the video of the Mysterio 619 on Big Show though.

Tajiri/Rikishi vs. Team Angle

This match was always stuck in my head because the Tajiri/Rikishi team was always a dream team of mine as a kid. No reasons needed. Rikishi is so much better than I or many others give him credit for. Man just knows how to have fun. Honestly believed those two could pull it off here. The Inverted Atomic Drop-Superkick combo by Team Angle is really nice.

Tajiri/Mysterio vs. Team Angle

Team Angle's green-ness shows up a lot here. Shelton couldn't properly kick Mysterio, and Charlie Haas doesn't do anything useful. Regardless, Tajiri kicks the crap out of everyone. That's all that is needed to know.

Tajiri vs. Noble (10/16/03)

Was this a heel/heel match? Don't remember either being face at the time. LMFAO at Tajiri spraying the mist on Nidia. Worth to watch for that alone.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That Rey/Miz match from July 25, 2011 is pretty good. I think I'd give it about ***3/4-****. Seeing that and knowing that Rey had to drop it that very night to Cena and not even sniff the title again kind of bums me out. They really should have waited until Summerslam for that match, then have Punk return that night or the next night on Raw. 

Then we might not have seen Kevin Nash at Summerslam, or Del Rio cash in (at least then). Then we probably wouldn't have gotten Punk/Trips at NOC. So many things would have been different if they had pushed Rey/Cena back.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ glad to see you liked to as well man, fun little match, and yea its bittersweet about Rey. I agree in a perfect world or IMO :lol Punk should not of came back until Noc and have rey/cena as the summerslam main event


----------



## Stopicals (Aug 9, 2013)

Big Show vs. Triple H NYR 2006 is really good from a psychological and storytelling standpoint. The pure working wasn't as good, like move execution, but kinda what you would expect from a match of its caliber. Really fine and nice usage of exposing the flaws of Show's cask, which rather in the build, only pros and how devastating it was, were revealed.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

iwatchwrestling said:


> That Rey/Miz match from July 25, 2011 is pretty good. I think I'd give it about ***3/4-****. Seeing that and knowing that Rey had to drop it that very night to Cena and not even sniff the title again kind of bums me out. They really should have waited until Summerslam for that match, then have Punk return that night or the next night on Raw.
> 
> Then we might not have seen Kevin Nash at Summerslam, or Del Rio cash in (at least then). Then we probably wouldn't have gotten Punk/Trips at NOC. So many things would have been different if they had pushed Rey/Cena back.


What would've been cool is if Punk won the title, then left WWE for a few months, and in that time Del Rio wins the belt from Cena/Rey. Punk then returns, still officially the WWE Champ as well, and beats Del Rio and officially returns to WWE.

Then he would've got his over 500-day title reign at 560 days by the time RR 2013 rolled around.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Randomly thought about the fact that HHH and Cena never had any gimmick matches together.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness they never had a gimmick match together. It would most certainly be terrible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thank goodness they never had a gimmick match together. It would most certainly be terrible.


Brilliant. I agree.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have a horrible feeling that a Cena/Trips gimmick match would be the world's longest finisher fest.

"BAH GAWD THE SEVENTH AA AND TRIPLE H REACHES HIS FEET AT FIVE!!!!"

"PEDIGREE OFF THE ROPES ONTO THE STEEL STEPS...BUT WAIT, STF! STF!"


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Technically they already did, around 6 times already... Triple Threats and Fatal 4-Ways are sort-of gimmick matches, and they're No DQ after all 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And most of those weren't any good either. We were correct.

oh and yeah, went through Tajiri vs Corino from Hardcore Heaven 2000 again today. Good grief, that's the coolest Tajiri match ever. For the sole fact that he transformed into a sick, twisted puppy to murder Corino from here to eternity.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Backlash '06 one is fucking great and Night Of Champions '09 is very good, quite superior to WM 24. Rest was solid or bleh imo.


----------



## Quietus (Jun 15, 2013)

> And most of those weren't any good either. We were correct.


What? Backlash 2006 triple threat and Survivor series 2009 triple threat were totally awesome. WM 24 is decent as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Night of Champions is shit. Backlash '06 is top of the class by a large margin.

Yeah, the phrase "most" really applies to all, doesn't it?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah Survivor Series '09 was awesome too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets get back on Tajiri. Someone who matters.


----------



## Quietus (Jun 15, 2013)

"Most" Triple threat matches involving them are great. "Most" Fatal 4 ways involving them are shit but its not down to two guys to make those kind of matches great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TAJIRI. Awesome little fucker. He likes to kick people REALLY FUCKING HARD. I like him. Not as high on some of his ECW work, but I did enjoy what I saw (matches with... uhhh... thingybob... one of them involved Tajiri trying to decapitate his opponent with a steel chair. If you've seen the match you KNOW which spot I'm talking about. Also a fun match with Tazz). His stuff with Rey in WWE is awesome. I liked his involvement on Raw 04 with Evolution whenever he got the chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Three minute match vs William Regal found the need to be sufficiently brutal back at Survivor Series 2001. Quite astounding really. KICKS & Regal type stuff = broken noses, walloped heads, and a whole other assortment of pain. I think once you've accomplished that, you're sitting mighty high. The Evolution stuff was rad for the few times it occurred. Too bad Tajiri didn't get more of a rub from it. Can't say there was much wrong in 2004 considering the players they used, but boy would have a nice underdog run with him been wonderful.

I wonder if said ECW spot you're talking about was the match SI told me about vs Psicosis. Mind is a daze. Might as well pop that on atm. Think I have to download it first.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah that short Regal match is awesome for the time it got. Tajiri/Rhyno from UF 01 is a ton of fun too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unforgiven is really swell. Their first match vs each other _(Tajiri & Rhyno)_ from RAW earlier in 2001 is even better with the sub-five minute format, tbhayley. Tajiri didn't even need all the time in the world to get a quality match. A lot that have been popping up from his WWE tenure are all within under ten minutes. Then there's vs Mysterio at No Mercy '03. Eleven minutes ftw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tajiri should come back . Tajiri Vs Punk. Tajiri Vs Bryan. Tajiri Vs Cesaro. Tajiri Vs Cena. Tajiri Vs Christian. Tajiri Vs Henry. Tajiri Vs Shield. 

Rhyno too. Always liked him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You want Tajiri?






Shortest masterpiece in wrestling history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Gaahh. Tajiri vs Cesaro kind of made me peak. Six to Midnight type stuff. Modern day Tajiri vs Henry too. Oh boy. Then Tajiri vs Rollins or REIGNS. HA. It's too much to handle. Tajiri & Generico unit. Lets fight the world; give us the best thing you can, WWE.

Rhino is legit. He's not doing much in ROH. I'd dig a return. Be a top enhancement talent or potentially getting a bigger push that he never quite got post Invasion angle/neck injury.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro or Reigns vs Rhino. DAT INTENSITY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I really wanna see Rollins take a GORE GORE GORE from Rhyno. Bet it would look spectacular.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He'd bump like a maniac on his neck for sure. <3

I say this with passion b/c he does it in the alarmingly good way not seen by certain workers elsewhere in the world.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd want to see Ziggler take a Buzzaw Kick immediatly followed by the GOARH. Ratingz there :ziggler3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of bumping like a maniac, I wish WWE would do something with Drew McIntyre . Guy is legit one of the most talented guys they have right now, which is saying something given the level of talent they do posses at the moment... and yet he's stuck in a fucking retarded gimmick with 2 useless cunts doing fuck all. WWE really fucking pisses me off at times with how they treat guys. "Oh look, he's fucking talented... LETS FUCK WITH HIM THEN RELEASE HIM AND HIRE SOME 6FT5 MUSCLEBOUND TWAT AND PUSH HIM INSTEAD."


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, the McIntyre Case is literally the most heartbreaking one in today's roster. Guy has everything - look, mic skills, charisma, stiffness, creativity, insane bumps... I swear I'd run around the streets naked if McIntyre got a proper push. And bring back Masters if you can, and let these two go at it for 20 mins at a big PPV. That would leave *everyone* happy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone remember the *Tajiri VS Chavo Guerrero, Billy Kidman, Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Akio, Nunzio, Jamie Noble, Shannon Moore, Funaki (Cruiserweight championship)(Cruiserweight open)* opening match from WMXX?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Anyone remember the *Tajiri VS Chavo Guerrero, Billy Kidman, Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Akio, Nunzio, Jamie Noble, Shannon Moore, Funaki (Cruiserweight championship)(Cruiserweight open)* opening match from WMXX?


Yeah, it was shit .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Yeah, it was shit .


One of those 'Looked better on paper' affairs it seems, shame. Don't remember it myself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best part was Ultimo slipping during his entrance. Then they edited it out of the DVD .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Anyone remember the *Tajiri VS Chavo Guerrero, Billy Kidman, Rey Mysterio, Ultimo Dragon, Akio, Nunzio, Jamie Noble, Shannon Moore, Funaki (Cruiserweight championship)(Cruiserweight open)* opening match from WMXX?


Yup, it was BOOORING. Royal Rumble and No Way Out '06 did it so much better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Speaking of bumping like a maniac, I wish WWE would do something with Drew McIntyre . Guy is legit one of the most talented guys they have right now, which is saying something given the level of talent they do posses at the moment... and yet he's stuck in a fucking retarded gimmick with 2 useless cunts doing fuck all. WWE really fucking pisses me off at times with how they treat guys. "Oh look, he's fucking talented... LETS FUCK WITH HIM THEN RELEASE HIM AND HIRE SOME 6FT5 MUSCLEBOUND TWAT AND PUSH HIM INSTEAD."


Oh yeah. Makes you wonder what in the heck WWE thinks behind the scenes. Really now. Where is the reason why McIntyre is in the position he's in. He's not even in a decent midcard role. He's jobber fodder. Which is lower than low. The guy can't even win on the most downgraded shows like Superstars. Baffling.



ATF said:


> Yup, it was BOOORING. Royal Rumble and No Way Out '06 did it so much better.


Well yeah. Those weren't elimination. Everyone got to actually work in the match. Not do two moves and get booted.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Benoit vs RVD & UnAmericans vs Goldust/Booker T are *Hot Fuzz* inspired levels of JESUS CHRIST in the underrated gem department.


I can't even explain my thoughts whilst reading this. You glorious bastard.



HayleySabin said:


> I wonder if said ECW spot you're talking about was the match SI told me about vs Psicosis. Mind is a daze. Might as well pop that on atm. Think I have to download it first.


Nah the spot Cal mentioned is the one I was on about from Tajiri/Super Crazy 1/21. You'll know the spot the second you see it. 

Psicosis match is a tremendous slow build from matwork to striking to bomb throwing helped by Tajiri's amazing offence and ability to inject little touches to make even the most mundane sequence interesting (they tease a rollup exchange which Tajiri halts by booting Psicosis in the dick). Psicosis to no suprise also tries to kill himself on bumps a good half a dozen times. The utter loon.



Callamus said:


> Tajiri should come back . Tajiri Vs Punk. Tajiri Vs Bryan. Tajiri Vs Cesaro. Tajiri Vs Cena. Tajiri Vs Christian. Tajiri Vs Henry. Tajiri Vs Shield.


The amazing thing is Tajiri is absolutely still tremendous and could work beautifully in the midcard. Did you ever watch the Finlay match from Japan last year they had? Absolutely incredible work from both and it was just agonising to think Tajiri could easily work and produce great matches even in shorter matches against some of the roster WWE has at their disposal.


Also, a Tajiri appreciation spell and NO-ONE mentions Eddie/Tajiri vs Team Angle from May-July '03 on Smackdown? Hang your collective heads in shame.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And yet Curtis Axel is currently getting a big push and the IC title all because his dad was good. Fuck that. McIntyre should have been a Paul Heyman guy. McIntyre Vs Punk? Fuck yeah.

EDIT: I don't think I ever got around to Tajiri/Finlay. I heard mixed things about it and just never got around to it myself.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Well yeah. Those weren't elimination. Everyone got to actually work in the match. Not do two moves and get booted.


Well of course but if you consider that the WM 20 one worked a Gauntlet style, you'd think they would have at least _tried_ to put on a worthy effort.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I can't even explain my thoughts whilst reading this. You glorious bastard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would have been twice as grand if you dubbed me an _"inglorious basterd"_. But I'm not partial towards any specific compliments. Quentin inspired or not. 

Went back and saw that. Getting my Mexicools mexi-mixed up atm.

:lmao no dick punches here. Only dick kicks. And Psicosis' loony bumpy YES. :mark:

Hey, I could have. Normally I jump towards the tag affairs, however I was purely Tajiri matches of selfish thought aka singles matches. No doubt the tags with Eddie vs Team Angle deserve their praise. One of them is on the Smackdown Anniversary set and GOOD LORD. Brings a tear to my eye.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> EDIT: I don't think I ever got around to Tajiri/Finlay. I heard mixed things about it and just never got around to it myself.







Its from 2/19. Tremendous match. SMASH's final show and Tajiri is trying to win the title back from Finlay in the main event of the company he built. Has all the explosive Tajiri offence and deft touches from Finlay in control that you want out of this pairing and its the best match from Japan last year imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Well of course but if you consider that the WM 20 one worked a Gauntlet style, you'd think they would have at least _tried_ to put on a worthy effort.


Not sure what you mean. Gauntlets + WWE have always usually = jip joint.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Would have been twice as grand if you dubbed me an _"inglorious basterd"_. But I'm not partial towards any specific compliments. Quentin inspired or not.
> 
> Went back and saw that. Getting my Mexicools mexi-mixed up atm.
> 
> ...


Good lord I should have spotted that opportunity. Gonna go throw myself in the resevoir like the dog I am.

Watch it, insane brawl and Tajiri is absolutely wonderful. Thought Super Crazy could have done a bit better when transitioning into his comeback but that was a small quibble.

Andy said it but Tajiri truly is the master at incorporating dick orientated offence into his matches. He's an utter scoundrel in that regard.

5/22 is the best imo with 5/29 & then 7/3 behind it. Eddie & Tajiri are such an overlooked tag team from the past decade. MNM would still be numero uno for me but Booker/Goldust & Eddie/Tajiri are right there as top three imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I shall certainly watch FINLAY VS TAJIRI at some point this weekend .

EDIT: MNM LOVE :mark:. Totally loved them as a team.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Good man Cal, its the bees knees.

Yeah I'd probably call Booker/Goldust & Eddie/Tajiri personal favourites over MNM, but I can't overlook how genuinly excellent they were as the sleazy heel tag team. The two face teams could have worked with anyone and produced a match ranging from solid-great depending on the extenuating circumstances, but in MNM they'd have had a true equal in terms of character dynamic and personality. MNM's offence and general rigid focus to STF staples also forever wins them my eternal respect.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Good lord I should have spotted that opportunity. Gonna go throw myself in the resevoir like the dog I am.
> 
> Watch it, insane brawl and Tajiri is absolutely wonderful. Thought Super Crazy could have done a bit better when transitioning into his comeback but that was a small quibble.
> 
> ...


I see what's going on there. :hayley1

Will do. Potentially too lazy and sleepy atm to be pestered with clicking links so once I wake up I'll get on it.

Is that so? One trait I've never been quite as wise to look upon. Eyes will be scoping out for said offense from here on out. About to run through the Psicosis match so eyes very peeled.

5/22 is the one that made the set. Good job on WWE picking that one. Completely forgot how grand those were until I watched it about a month ago. Lovelovelove.

MNM were kind of unreal. Only makes me miss Morrison all the more _(idc, singles or tags, just let me have him back)_ & Matthews/Mercury was rather underrated for his time with WWE. He actually led the team for the first portion of their career, tbf.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Not sure what you mean. Gauntlets + WWE have always usually = jip joint.


Cruiserweight division, in 2004, with names like Mysterio, Tajiri, Noble, Akio and Dragon, working mini Singles matches at WrestlefuckingMania 20. Typically Gauntlet/Tag Team Turmoils are suckage, but you'd figure this would try to differ, and not even trying it wanted to.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If only they stayed as a team rather than Morrison going singles and Mercury getting fired . And have to mention Melina too. Great ass on her, and she actually had a presence at ringside and did shit rather than stand there looking like a slut. MNM Vs Londrick was always great shit :mark:. Always wondered how MNM Vs The Dudley Boys would have been like had Big Johnny not fucked over The Dudleys and got rid of them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Melina was legit in her role too. Anyone remember her RAPE victim promos on Batista? Camp was all up in that angle, but damn did she play the part well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The stuff with Batista was :lmao.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I see what's going on there. :hayley1
> 
> Will do. Potentially too lazy and sleepy atm to be pestered with clicking links so once I wake up I'll get on it.
> 
> ...


I have high hopes you'll love Tajiri/Psicosis. One of the better ECW matches I've ever seen.

5/22 is just incredible. Eddie's performance is truly astounding in that match and Tajiri more than compliments the team by putting in a strong showing himself. Testament to both men's talent and how tag team wrestling done right is a foolproof formula in terms of taking Haas & Benjamin to the best matches of their careers within their first few months in the company. The Ladder match @ Judgement Day is pretty average though, if only because Team Angle are clearly uncomfortable in the surrounding and the match suffers as a result.

Rewatching some of the MNM/Batista & Mysterio tags it was quite astounding to see Mercury dictate the pace really. They worked great cut offs, had a nasty edge which added to their heat segments and both bumped like loons in the beginning and closing stretches to put over the babyfaces. Morrison clearly had more agility and could work more frantic and eye catching sequences whilst Mercury was more of the plotting and meticulous member, picking off the babyface and relying on his positioning to keep control.



Callamus said:


> If only they stayed as a team rather than Morrison going singles and Mercury getting fired . And have to mention Melina too. Great ass on her, and she actually had a presence at ringside and did shit rather than stand there looking like a slut. MNM Vs Londrick was always great shit :mark:. Always wondered how MNM Vs The Dudley Boys would have been like had Big Johnny not fucked over The Dudleys and got rid of them.


Yeah Melina really deserves some plaudits for actually becoming an integral part of the team and not just mere eye candy at ringside. She really embraced the concept of getting heat for herself and the team by interfering constantly in matches behind the ref's back and really made the trio a very complete group in terms of ability and presence. Speaking of overlooked Londrick matches, you see the Taylor/Regal tags from late '06 on Smackdown? They had a couple of tags and then singles matches between the teams which I thought was a really nifty mini feud back when I last watched them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal/Taylor Vs Londrick? Hells yeah! 2 matches from their series made my top 100 list:

91. London & Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor – WWE Smackdown 08/12/2006
92. Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal – WWE Smackdown 24/11/2006

:mark:

Still never seen Rey/Batista Vs MNM from SD in late 05. Only saw their SD 06 cage match which was fucking TERRIBLE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I have high hopes you'll love Tajiri/Psicosis. One of the better ECW matches I've ever seen.
> 
> 5/22 is just incredible. Eddie's performance is truly astounding in that match and Tajiri more than compliments the team by putting in a strong showing himself. Testament to both men's talent and how tag team wrestling done right is a foolproof formula in terms of taking Haas & Benjamin to the best matches of their careers within their first few months in the company. The Ladder match @ Judgement Day is pretty average though, if only because Team Angle are clearly uncomfortable in the surrounding and the match suffers as a result.
> 
> Rewatching some of the MNM/Batista & Mysterio tags it was quite astounding to see Mercury dictate the pace really. They worked great cut offs, had a nasty edge which added to their heat segments and both bumped like loons in the beginning and closing stretches to put over the babyfaces. Morrison clearly had more agility and could work more frantic and eye catching sequences whilst Mercury was more of the plotting and meticulous member, picking off the babyface and relying on his positioning to keep control.


Well that was fabulous. I was reacting to it much the same how the fans in the ECW arena were. Succession of kicks to end the match. Bonkers. My reaction was humorous if seen after Tajiri kicked out of the guillotine leg drop. I was like whaaaat? Best part of the match for me was Psicosis insanity bump/dive 101. Headbutt suicide through the ropes, over the guard rail, into the audience where only concrete awaits his fall. You must be on cocaine to have to even think of such a feat. Noticed not one, but two dick kicks in the match too. Have to get that out. 10 star match.

Always thought the same about the ladder match. Portions in that you can clearly tell both Benjamin & Haas had no idea what to do and were out of their element. Weird how Shelton would come to embrace the spotty nature of a ladder match following that one, of course. Smackdown tag match in question was right up the alley of Team Angle though. Thought their work in it was enough to make their more "seasoned" work anywhere - WWE, ROH, Japan - look like tripe by comparison. I like a good bunch from Shelton, but these two almost peaked within their first years. Potentially thanks to the fact they got the time to do such grand work together. Then it didn't hurt once they were working with talent the likes of Eddie & Tajiri for a spell too. Those two were about as on point as they ever were while duking it out with Team Angle. Tag teamin' is such a beautiful art.

Stellar analysis. Mercury knew what he was doing. Morrison was aided greatly by him and that showed in spades. Both were bump heavy and bless them for that. Meanwhile Mercury handled the grit while Morrison, or Nitro rather, was the flash and pizzazz. A damn fabulous tag team. Far past only the "modern" era too. I'm talking in the whole of WWE lore. Great team with two great runs put forth. Series vs Haas & Holly are probably the best forgotten series of matches around.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Regal/Taylor Vs Londrick? Hells yeah! 2 matches from their series made my top 100 list:
> 
> 91. London & Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor – WWE Smackdown 08/12/2006
> 92. Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal – WWE Smackdown 24/11/2006
> ...


It was ok. Fairly typical tag stuff, nothing to write home about.

Londrick/Pitbulls from GAB 2006 is awesome btw.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Regal/Taylor Vs Londrick? Hells yeah! 2 matches from their series made my top 100 list:
> 
> 91. London & Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor – WWE Smackdown 08/12/2006
> 92. Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal – WWE Smackdown 24/11/2006
> ...


Rey/Batista vs MNM 12/30/05 is excellent:



> Amazing STF match here. People often bring up great tag teams and honestly, has there been a better tag team since the Rockers in the WWE than MNM? People point to the Hardyz, Dudleys and E&C but none of those teams, especially the Dudleys and E&C as heels could work a match quite like MNM. Match is entirely layed out like a great STF match should be, and when you've got great babyfaces like Mysterio and Batista who are complimented by great heels in MNM its a formula which can't fail. Extended babyface opening has a nice flow to it and everything is hit well enough with Mysterio in particular having a tremendous headscissors on Nitro which looked insane. Nitro to his credit also has this brilliant subtle spot where he breaks up a Mysterio cover and then shits himself when he eyes Batista about to enter the ring. In fairness the way they built up the power of Batista at the beginning and end of the match really should be credited, since it made the FIP section all the more pivotal to the match.
> 
> Transition spot is beautiful with Mercury distracting Mysterio long enough for Nitro to counter a springboard with a superkick, and Mysterio's right leg gets tangled in the ropes and becomes the centre of MNM's focus. From here the selling of Mysterio is as beautiful as MNM's dissection of the leg. Things like Mysterio collapsing on an irish whip attempt and Nitro drawing the referee into trying to control Batista allowing them to hit an illegal double team move are just brilliant little touches that you'll often find in a STF match. MNM work the leg like kings and everything moves along smoothly and the crowd slowly becomes more unglued with each tease of a hot tag. Whole sequence where Rey rolls away like a fly to evade MNM's trap, only to be caught mid dive and inches away from the hot tag only to hit a desparation DDT counter and eventually make the tag was the spot of the match.
> 
> Hot tag has the crowd molten and Batista does his job well in clearing house and making MNM lambs to the slaughter. Melina really sells the fear that Batista will evaporate their strategy in the blink of an eye and they even manage to work the referee injury spot really well. Mysterio before this hits a lunatic hurricanrana to Nitro off the apron to the floor which really felt like everything he had left in the match. Mark Henry interference is perfectly timed and we get a great screjob finish with MNM stealing the belts with Batista motionless from Henry's assault. Great pacing, great offence from MNM, wonderful FIP spell from Mysterio and a great build to the hot tag to Batista. Awesome match





HayleySabin said:


> Well that was fabulous. I was reacting to it much the same how the fans in the ECW arena were. Succession of kicks to end the match. Bonkers. My reaction was humorous if seen after Tajiri kicked out of the guillotine leg drop. I was like whaaaat? Best part of the match for me was Psicosis insanity bump/dive 101. Headbutt suicide through the ropes, over the guard rail, into the audience where only concrete awaits his fall. You must be on cocaine to have to even think of such a feat. Noticed not one, but two dick kicks in the match too. Have to get that out. 10 star match.
> 
> Always thought the same about the ladder match. Portions in that you can clearly tell both Benjamin & Haas had no idea what to do and were out of their element. Weird how Shelton would come to embrace the spotty nature of a ladder match following that one, of course. Smackdown tag match in question was right up the alley of Team Angle though. Thought their work in it was enough to make their more "seasoned" work anywhere - WWE, ROH, Japan - look like tripe by comparison. I like a good bunch from Shelton, but these two almost peaked within their first years. Potentially thanks to the fact they got the time to do such grand work together. Then it didn't hurt once they were working with talent the likes of Eddie & Tajiri for a spell too. Those two were about as on point as they ever were while duking it out with Team Angle. Tag teamin' is such a beautiful art.
> 
> Stellar analysis. Mercury knew what he was doing. Morrison was aided greatly by him and that showed in spades. Both were bump heavy and bless them for that. Meanwhile Mercury handled the grit while Morrison, or Nitro rather, was the flash and pizzazz. A damn fabulous tag team. Far past only the "modern" era too. I'm talking in the whole of WWE lore. Great team with two great runs put forth. Series vs Haas & Holly are probably the best forgotten series of matches around.


Great to see you loved Tajiri/Psicosis, match is indeed excellent. Yeah that Psicosis bump is just frightening but you grow to accept that with the utter bertie that he is. That bloke is just a walking risk assessment but its impossible not to love him for it. Every match would be better if a dick kick was incorporated into it, for real.

Yeah Team Angle hold their own in the Smackdown series. Eddie/Tajiri are by far the better workers in the matches and elevate the match but Haas/Benjamin work some good cut offs and particularly excel in the final match since they're desperate to regain the titles before Angle returns the next week to impress him. 

Fully agreed on MNM. They had the impressive arsenal to win over the modern day fan looking for eye catching sequences but had enough of the intricacies of days gone by to appeal to the older viewer who appreciates the little touches. A very complete trio and its a crying shame they weren't more of a mainstay over the years instead of fizzling out after a tremendous debut. Sad to see the state of tag team wrestling on TV these days compared to the '06 Smackdown matches where they were afforded ample time to excel and perform to their highest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD 06 and their PPV's were packed full of awesome tag matches all year. One of the many things I loved about SD 06.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I know there's a Finlay/Regal vs Hardy/Gunner Scott tag from 6/16 that you & Andy thought was tremendous. Think it might have been put on a comp because I couldn't track down a link when I searched for the match. Regal/JBL from April '06 in England was magical however.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SD 06 PPV's. Fuck yeah. Judgment Day, GAB, Armageddon, 1 of the most underrated shows ever in No Mercy... and No Way Out. *No Way Out 2006 *:mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I know there's a Finlay/Regal vs Hardy/Gunner Scott tag from 6/16 that you & Andy thought was tremendous. Think it might have been put on a comp because I couldn't track down a link when I searched for the match. Regal/JBL from April '06 in England was magical however.


I'll dig out my SD 06 discs and upload it for ya if you want .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If its not too much trouble Cal, wouldn't want to be a bother


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already slicing out the match from the show .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't help but think crap like drugs & company favoritism is what killed MNM. Well, I know the drugs were the downfall of Mercury till he returned in 2010. Still, damn the luck.

And truthfully, NWO 2006 wasn't as good of a show as it is made out to be. Armageddon 2006 is pretty good, but has an unfortunate shit crowd. TV was stronger than their PPVs. No Mercy was a top notch show though. Benoit vs Regal, Hardy vs Helms, & Team ROH vs not-Sandow & jobber. All day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Armageddon is one of my favourite PPV's of the year. NWO only really had Undertaker/Angle and Orton/Rey, but both were fucking tremendous anyway so it makes up for the rest just kinda being there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, but you're one of those weird guys who thinks Undertaker vs Kennedy matches are like really great. And truthfully, they're pretty shit minus the First Blood match.

:hayley3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What do you know about matches being great? Go fap to some pale redhead or something :side:.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Well that escalated quickly.


Cal you're an utter star for this. An absolute treasure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> What do you know about matches being great? Go fap to some pale redhead or something :side:.


I know Undertaker in the Summer of 1996 had a real treasure for example. BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT.

Oh and Karen Gillan. b/c I feel like it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

10% uploaded now. Off for a walk with my dogs, when I get back hopefully it'll be done.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Top man.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it got to 90% and started again :lmao. It Cal'd up . Oh well, hopefully this time it'll work .


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Callamus said:


> And yet Curtis Axel is currently getting a big push and the IC title all because his dad was good. Fuck that. McIntyre should have been a Paul Heyman guy. McIntyre Vs Punk? Fuck yeah.
> 
> EDIT: I don't think I ever got around to Tajiri/Finlay. I heard mixed things about it and just never got around to it myself.


Are we talking Tajiri/Finlay from SMASH? I was bored with it tbh. I just couldn't make it to the end. Then again, I wasn't really feeling in the wrestling mood. I should give it a watch some day.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

While we were talking about 2006 PPV's, Raw was... ehh. I really enjoyed Unforgiven, and NYR and Backlash were good too. Everything else either hits average or (as DX H would say) choked in the chicken.

And the Big 4 were disastrous. WM 22 was really fun, but then SummerSlam was the PPV'ification of Lesnar/Goldberg in terms of dissapointment, while Survivor Series and Royal Rumble were both a monstruous piece of shit.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Well it got to 90% and started again :lmao. It Cal'd up . Oh well, hopefully this time it'll work .


Oh man, don't put yourself out mate. There's absolutely no rush!



sharkboy22 said:


> Are we talking Tajiri/Finlay from SMASH? I was bored with it tbh. I just couldn't make it to the end. Then again, I wasn't really feeling in the wrestling mood. I should give it a watch some day.


Oh you scoundrel. Its super. Finlay dictates and controls, they establish Tajiri's kicks as being a potential difference maker early but demonstrate Finlay's capability in countering and nullifying the kicks. Tajiri sells excellently throughout and pulls you into the middle section of the match and the comeback is very well done with a good finishing stretch built around trying to find one crucial opening. It does away with the pitfalls that befall a lot of pimped puro matches in this day and age and is just a remarkably simple but well executed match. Top 5 Finlay on the indies match imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k13LfDuPgROaHz4q35D


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Bless your soul Cal. Watching this asap


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Anyone know a good PPV hidden gem starring Mick Foley?

Edit: Decided to watch SD instead, starting with Orton/RVD. One funny thing I remember is that those two have treated each other with mutual respect, despite the fact that in 07 Orton supposedly concussed and almost ended RVD's career with the punt :lol But we're not supposed to remember, are we?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton is a good guy now. He's now buddies with RVD, Sheamus and everyone else he kicked the head of. rton2

Saw you say Night of Champions triple threat is better than Wrestlemania XXIV. LOL. No way in hell! The former is a shitty traditional, cliché three way while the latter is actually entertaining and great as well.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I know there's a Finlay/Regal vs Hardy/Gunner Scott tag from 6/16 that you & Andy thought was tremendous. Think it might have been put on a comp because I couldn't track down a link when I searched for the match. Regal/JBL from April '06 in England was magical however.


It's quality, yeah. JBL's commentary is great, Finlay and Regal act like a couple THUGS (if Matt Hardy was black then there'd be a ready made John Terry comparison), and Albright gets smashed in the face with a stick. 

Is that Regal/JBL match the one where Bradshaw works over Regal's ear? Because that shit definitely ruled as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Aren't like 95% of them traditional and cliché, anyway?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Aren't like 95% of them traditional and cliché, anyway?


Yeah, but that one is something else. It starts with Orton trying to escape but then it literally turns into "one guy gets thrown out, the other two fight, one of them gets thrown out, the other guy takes his place". And they don't even do anything special in that aspect. They just hit whatever combination of signature/"comeback" moves they have until one gets rolled out and another enters. The sequences are extremely predictable, the ending is crap and made the champion look way too weak and it made no sense for Cena to protect HHH from a punt when he had him in the STF. Not to mention, that over the top facial expression from Orton just killed it. I thought it was okay first few times but then I rewatched it recently for my list and couldn't believe how much it went down for me.










WTF, man?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOD of CUNT said:


> It's quality, yeah. JBL's commentary is great, Finlay and Regal act like a couple THUGS (if Matt Hardy was black then there'd be a ready made John Terry comparison), and Albright gets smashed in the face with a stick.
> 
> Is that Regal/JBL match the one where Bradshaw works over Regal's ear? Because that shit definitely ruled as well.


Yeah its the one from late April on the UK tour. You wrote about it at the other place and I was all over it immediately when I came across it via dailymotion. Great ten minute affair with the ear work and JBL working superbly as the rough bruiser.

Watching the tag now, expecting something nifty.

Tajiri got pimped a few pages back. I linked Greg the 5 matches of his from 00-01 in ECW and the El Lobo Anderson match from Puerto Rico. Might watch the Mexican Death Match again later if only to see that brilliant chair spot with the table.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The thing is i've last watched that match AND the WM 24 one 1000 years ago  I saw most of the work in tthe NOC one as The Orton Show, cause Cena and H were going Angloit with moves. I remember his facials and methodical heel work being one of his best all year, including that one facial, which I LMAO'd at (but of course, nothing tops BP). That ending RKO was sick, too.

Orton/RVD was meh, if not blah. Picks up nicely at the last three minutes and seeing RVD sell the RKO is still a must, but good portion was too convulted, robotic and structureless for my tastes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched at excellent match from Great American Bash 98' in WCW. It was the final match in the best of 7 series between Booker T and Benoit. Man this match was great, just really really stiff and action packed. Booker T wins in the end with the top rope missile drop kick, but both guys came out of this match looking strong. You could just tell during the Benoit control segments that he was legit beating the shit out of Booker and Booker gave it right back to him. It's on the Hard Knocks DVD set I just picked up at the used CD store in town.

And the whole Drew McIntyre situation is truly depressing. I mean I honestly do not get what their isn't to like about the guy. He is good to great in just about every attribute but he's buried in the stupid 3MB gimmick that no one gives even the slightest fuck about. I wish they would put him in a program with Ambrose for the US Title. No one cares about that title but atleast a drew vs dean program would be throwing the Smarks a bone. It's just a shame he was never given a legit chance. He could be the next Chris Jericho and we'd never know.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Booker T had a really strong 1998. Loved the Benoit series as well as all his Television Title defenses. WCW in general had a ton of career years in 1998. Jericho, Malenko, Raven, Juventud Guerrera, Kidman, Benoit, Booker T, and DDP all were really good.

I'm still not sold on McIntyre. Somebody sell me. Hated the man in 09-10. He had his chance at being a big time player, but he failed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Finlay & William Regal vs Matt Hardy & Gunner Scott, Smackdown (6/16/06)*

Tremendous little match here with three of the best talents of the last decade involved. Nothing overly complicated in what they do, just simplistic wrestling executed to perfection and the match doesn't disappoint as a result. Finlay & Regal are just excellent here as the conniving and ruthless veterans beating the piss out of Hardy and exploiting the rules to maintain their advantage. Shit like Finlay utilising his classic corner spot claiming to have a busted eye allowing Regal to cheapshot Hardy or backing away from Scott until the ref interjects and he uses the ref as a position to blindside Gunner with a quick shot. Hardy's mouth bleeds here and it honestly could have been from half a dozen or so shots. Transition spot is spectacular with Hornswoggle smashing Hardy in the crotch with the shillelagh and Regal then immediately pouncing with a running knee to the temple. Hardy's FIP is naturally strong and he just bumps superbly for all of Finlay & Regal's explosive offence and takes a nice bump after Finlay cheapshots Gunner to draw him into the ring, allowing Regal to throw Hardy to the floor off the top rope. One little spot I adored saw Regal cutting off Hardy's attempt to make the tag by throwing his body on top of him and effortlessly transitioning into a headlock via body position. Just simple but unique. Gunner's hot tag is fine with some good looking blows and Regal/Finlay throwing themselves around perfectly. Finlay with the eye poke only to walk into a surprise German was bossy and the finish is perfect with Gunner taking a stiff shillelagh shot and Finlay stealing another win. Great match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on SD:



Spoiler: Smackdown



* Already gave out my thoughts on Orton/RVD, so no need to repeat myself.

* Miz TV segment was what it was. Awkward mostly, as only AJ looked good on the mic. But the post-promo brawl was ok.

* Kofi/Fandango, I didn't care. But I'm glad Fandango won. Summer looked nice and boy she's a good seller.

* Bryan/Barrett, for 5 minutes, was some serious shit. And before you start marking for DA BEARD, about 3/4 of the match was controlled by Barrett, who not only got a full entrance, but he also came out with a shaver, which if used right could be the next shilleilagh.

* Sandow's new MITB case is utterly _genius_. 'Nuff said.

* "Ring Of Fire" was specified as pretty much an Inferno match. Also, Kane murdering 3MB (Mahal got the pin, thank Goodness) was really fun, and Wyatt's promo was excellent.

* Lesnar's promo was not bad at all tbh, though he was aided by the brilliance of the WWE production team.

* ADR/Christian, as it is, is not happening at SummerSlam. It's gonna be a gimmick match or someone will be added. Because they gave it away pretty much here. Pretty long at around 20 minutes, and expected, very, very solid. Both men looked evenly matched, psychology was decent, the stuff you'd ask for. Some cool spots, some contrived ones, AWFUL finish, but otherwise pretty good.



So far in August, SD >> Raw.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Lesnar promo on Smackdown was really good. All new information that added to the already heated feud.


----------



## GOD OF CUNT (Jan 9, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Tajiri got pimped a few pages back. I linked Greg the 5 matches of his from 00-01 in ECW and the El Lobo Anderson match from Puerto Rico. Might watch the Mexican Death Match again later if only to see that brilliant chair spot with the table.


I might start a Tajiri of the Day. I was thinking about doing either that or a Tito (Santana) of the Day a while back. Whenever I get motivated to write something again...


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

GOD of CUNT said:


> I might start a Tajiri of the Day. I was thinking about doing either that or a Tito (Santana) of the Day a while back. Whenever I get motivated to write something again...


Ironic you said that since I came across your review of the tag again and you specifically mention doing a Tito of the Day :lol (you were comparing Hardy as the 00s version of Tito). No doubt a Tajiri project would be stellar as he's diverse and capable in longer matches whilst delivering entertaining and memorable shorter matches.

Think I might try and revisit Regal in '93-'94 WCW. I was browsing through the Microscope section on PWO and saw the Regal thread and one user who'd gone through a good 20 or so of his matches from that timeframe. I remember his stronger bouts but no doubt there's a few overlooked matches/performances somewhere.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Off for the weekend in two hours and it really calls for some more wrestling in my life. I have most of Payback left to watch (YAY Del Rio Vs Dolph, BOO Cena Vs Ryback), and I was considering maybe copping the war games DVD tonight and giving it a watch & review on here which ill probably do with all of these PPVs from 2013 that I've been bouncing around (most of them are terrible). Once September comes around and I'm back to campus, it'll be another project for me, hoping to get something that takes only a little whole (like GOLDBERG, ill probably buy the DVD and then watch the rest of his matches online), and then something big around Christmas.

I said I was done with the snowflakes but I'm not sure. We'll see. Might busy them out for a few reviews soon if I start feeling like it, but later today it'll all be about PAYBACK.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Thoughts on Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii from Sunday? Tried but can't agree with Meltzer's ***** rating. Here the clip if you haven't seen it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I loved it personally but its definitely a case of two very good-great workers managing to execute the most out of what is typically a poor style to me. Put that much in less capable hands and I'd probably hate it. Ishii in particular really understands how to make some of the more typically egregious sequences mean so much more in his matches and look better as a result.

Don't spend too much time focusing on Meltzer's rating though. It doesn't quantify the match as great and is just his opinion based on his own preferences. He's been a huge advocate of New Japan and I was anticipating a rather lavish rating from him. Not truthfully shocked it got the maximum stars from him at all personally. I wouldn't agree even if I did think it was great.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

SonoShion said:


> Thoughts on Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii from Sunday? Tried but can't agree with Meltzer's ***** rating. Here the clip if you haven't seen it.


Wrong section......

But i will say, I find it hard to agree with any of Meltzer's ratings these days. Richards/Elgin was the final straw for me. Stopped giving a crap about his ratings after that one.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Aw shit yeah what am I doing in this section :lol.., gonna take it there.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Meltzer gave Punk/Jericho from Payback ****1/2... need I say more? He loves anything with back and forth action and a hot crowd.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I don't know about his other ratings but regarding giving out 5*, we approximately have a match of 75%.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Jericho Payback is nowhere near as disgraceful as the Punk/Rock Royal Rumble rating. Good heavens, nothing about it is deserved of a ******. Man also shat on Great American Bash 1992, which consisted of arguably the best tag team work ever in an American event.

TITO SANTANA! One of the few gems of the horrid Golden/Hogan Era.

Regal is a straight up goon in 93-94. Man even made Larry Zbyszko interesting. Only less-than-good match he had during that time was against Windham. And that was all because of Barry Windham's laziness.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Meltzer gave Punk/Jericho from Payback ****1/2... need I say more? He loves anything with back and forth action and a hot crowd.


Didnt he give ziggler/del rio from the same show ***1/2 ? :lmao I remember there was a huge thread on him a couple a weeks ago and someone posted all of his ratings ***-above, most were laughable

Although I do agree with all of his fives (wwe only) except hart bros. cage


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Oh yeah, his Punk/Rock ratings were atrocious. Pretty sure he gave the other one something like ***1/2 or ***3/4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Richards/Elgin was the last straw to me too. Then stuff like the Royal Rumble WWE Title Matches Of Doom (Angle/Benoit and Punk/Rock) recieving both ****3/4 and **** just makes me wonder how much of a spotfest fan he is.

I'm sure Cody will despise this one - Meltzer gave Angle/Michaels I ****3/4. 8*D


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

He also gave Kurt Angle/Jeff match at No Surrender 2010 a ****1/4.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Discussion: what's the best finish to a match this year? 



redskins25 said:


> Didnt he give ziggler/del rio from the same show ***1/2 ? :lmao I remember there was a huge thread on him a couple a weeks ago and someone posted all of his ratings ***-above, most were laughable
> 
> Although I do agree with all of his fives (wwe only) except hart bros. cage


He sure did but to be fair I can sort of understand why not everyone would appreciate the greatness of Ziggler/Del Rio. Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Some laughable ratings of his:

Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards ROH BITW - ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Bret Hart WM 12 - ****1/4
CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Christian vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus - ****1/2

:lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Execution/difficulty or in terms of storyline advancement? 

Bryan countering Swiss Death into the small package in terms of a pure finish was tremendous and nothing immediately jumps out as being more visually impressive.

If we're taking into account a storyline/moment, then The Shield's first loss was pretty great with the crowd going ballistic after Kane foiled the barricade spear and Rollins ate the RKO. Ziggler/Del Rio @ Payback was pretty tremendous with Ziggler showing a faint glimmer of hope before eating one decisive kick too many. Del Rio/Show LMS on Smackdown also had a pretty great finishing stretch with the shoulder work coming into play, Del Rio putting greater force into each step shot than the last and then Show toppling and Del Rio burying him under the table.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Discussion: what's the best finish to a match this year?
> 
> 
> 
> He sure did but to be fair I can sort of understand why not everyone would appreciate the greatness of Ziggler/Del Rio. Different strokes for different folks.


I guess, although its gotten a pretty good response on here, I think you and I are the only ones who have it MOTY though

---
I'm embarrassed hbk/angle I is rated that high

---

Best finish to a match this year ? I'll go with cesaro/dbryan


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, The Shield's first loss was an awesome moment.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Execution/difficulty or in terms of storyline advancement?
> 
> Bryan countering Swiss Death into the small package in terms of a pure finish was tremendous and nothing immediately jumps out as being more visually impressive.
> 
> If we're taking into account a storyline/moment, then The Shield's first loss was pretty great with the crowd going ballistic after Kane foiled the barricade spear and Rollins ate the RKO. Ziggler/Del Rio @ Payback was pretty tremendous with Ziggler showing a faint glimmer of hope before eating one decisive kick too many. Del Rio/Show LMS on Smackdown also had a pretty great finishing stretch with the shoulder work coming into play, Del Rio putting greater force into each step shot than the last and then Show toppling and Del Rio burying him under the table.


Either or.

Haven't seen that Shield match yet but I agree with Ziggler/Del Rio and Show/Del Rio having great finishes. My personal favorite might just be Axel's opportunistic cover while Barrett teased submitting to Miz's figure four at Payback. Also liked the finishing stretch of HHH/Lesnar at Mania quite a bit but I doubt too many others would agree. Thought it was a good slay the beast type finish with Hunter hitting Brock with everything he had to put him away, creating drama in the process with the Kimura attempts and Lesnar's selling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Punk WM match might be my fav finish this year so far.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I guess, although its gotten a pretty good response on here, I think you and I are the only ones who have it MOTY though


Really? We can't be the only ones. That match is a work of art. I really hope it holds up well for me on a second viewing. Still only seen it once but I absolutely adored it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Forgot about that IC Triple Threat finish, that was a corker in fairness. Perfect heel victory and a nice utilisation of how it could only occur in a triple threat.

FWIW Ziggler/Del Rio is comfortably MOTY for PPV imo. Only match I'd have above it would be Regal/Ohno and I'm not even completely sure I would still think that come the end of the year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Really? We can't be the only ones. That match is a work of art. I really hope it holds up well for me on a second viewing. Still only seen it once but I absolutely adored it.





WOOLCOCK said:


> Forgot about that IC Triple Threat finish, that was a corker in fairness. Perfect heel victory and a nice utilisation of how it could only occur in a triple threat.
> 
> FWIW Ziggler/Del Rio is comfortably MOTY for PPV imo. Only match I'd have above it would be Regal/Ohno and I'm not even completely sure I would still think that come the end of the year.


I am also scared to watch it again as well, one of those match you DONT want to drop because you think so highly of it, will do sometime soon when the time is right :lol. I dont know you too Woolcock shared the same feeling. I mostly see punk/taker and punk/cena as MOTY still

Btw Woolcock I watched that punk/morrison series from 09, work of art and I laugh at ppl who say Punk hasnt done anything until MITB in the wwe


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Nice. Their series was tremendous. Really reminded me of the Eddie/Rey series albeit shorter with Morrison having Punk's number and Punk growing progressively anxious in beating Morrison for the first time in between the Hardy feud. Was a really bossy little side program to elevate Morrison and progress Punk/Hardy at the same time. The 8/14 encounter 9 days away from Summerslam was excellent I thought and better than the June match. They really put over Punk's striking and his new cold approach in terms of looking to hurt opponents as a way to make him appear dangerous when he wants to be and he's great working on top of Morrison and growing restless with every nearfall.

Check out Punk/Regal from a MSG House Show match on 12/28/08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwicCNbjlqE

Punk's best match as a face prior to '11 imo. They work some great exchanges, Punk takes a lunatic bump off of a half nelson exploder which is Misawa esque and Regal is disgustingly stiff with his strikes including a sickening strike to the back of Punk's head.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Morrison on SD 09 was great. Really loved how it all worked towards Punk's heel turn and his run with Hardy without making the Morrison matches seem worthless and shit.

Thoughts on their ECW 07 match where Punk wins the title? Haven't seen it since it happened, but I know Punk himself hates their other ECW title matches but thinks very highly of that one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah the June match has Punk gloriously trying to feign sincerity as a face even though its clear he's well on the way to having turned and just trying to deceive the crowd. He works a ton of little moments where you can question his legitimacy, such as the really forced handshake to start but best of all the spot where he petulantly kicks Morrison's leg from under him on the apron after catching a kick. Definitely a character driven match which Punk excels at. The August match with him as a clear heel was better I thought, but both are exemplary.

Can't truthfully recall much of the '07 match in fairness. I don't think I thought greatly of it in comparison to their '09 matches and even something like Morrison/Bourne from 4/14/09.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cesaro/Zayn (Y)



Callamus said:


> Punk/Morrison on SD 09 was great. Really loved how it all worked towards Punk's heel turn and his run with Hardy without making the Morrison matches seem worthless and shit.
> 
> Thoughts on their ECW 07 match where Punk wins the title? Haven't seen it since it happened, but I know Punk himself hates their other ECW title matches but thinks very highly of that one.


Punk/Morrison '09 series is indeed great.

Completely agree with Punk on the ECW '07 series. All of them are fairly crummy except the one where he wins the title. Haven't seen it in ages but I remember it being really good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to download SD 09 or something, really wanna go through them all again. Show just felt so... different to what it did before and after. Had a strange but awesome atmosphere almost when I watched it. Hard to explain, hope someone at least understands me . Between Punk and his great slow heel turn and heel run and the stuff with Morrison and Hardy and then the Rey/Jericho feud, I just couldn't get enough of the show back then. And those were only TWO parts of the whole thing :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

will watch the punk/regal in a second. On Punk's DVD he said all the 07 matches were shit except the match on ecw


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Punk's early years in WWE really aren't too great. He was definitely capable of better work but they saddled with that being a KENTA/Puro Junior esque striker and tbf the bloke throws some horrid kicks and it just wasn't the right gimmick/character for him. He's definitely much better when he can be more methodical and calculated as he was in the Morrison matches in '09. He can play face very well due to his selling and intelligence in structuring matches around his comeback, but the Muay-Thai gimmick really limited him and it produced some pretty meandering and in some cases awful matches in ECW.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Morrison/Punk PPV trilogy was the utter definition of contrived. The one with the Punk ECW Title victory is immensely superior.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton v The Shield - Raw (6/3/13)*
Didn't love this. Bryan's hot tag and the finishing stretch in general were amazing but other than that it was just kind of there. I actually got behind Orton when he cleaned house with the powerslams and DDTs but he did nothing for me as the FIP and that was the bulk of the match. Don't recall Kane doing anything of note either other than making a mess of a double suplex attempt early in the match. Bryan ruled the world once again, Ambrose was really good and the final few minutes were crazy but it's far from a top Shield match. Still good though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I personally enjoyed the Hell RK-No/Shield Tag from SD much more. All performances came off much more natural to me. Though I still dug the Raw one too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It took me a while to realize, understand and accept that Dave Meltzer's opinion is no different nor is it better than mine. Man, if only I had the resources to start my own magazine. Does anyone know how he even got into journalism? Was he just some rich kid who loved wrestling so he started his own thing?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

CM Punk conversation! Count me in.

Punk and Morrison had some damn good chemistry even if their PPV matches were weak. Not only was their 9/1/07 Title match really good, but the 15 minutes of fame match and the highly underrated 11/6/07 match were good too. Other little gems of him in his early days include:

vs. Henry 12/2/07
vs. Chavo Guerrero 2/5/08
vs. Kane 6/3/08
vs. Edge 4/22/08
vs. JBL 8/23/08
vs. Jericho 9/15/08
vs. Regal 7/28/08
w/Kofi vs. Priceless 10/27/08
w/Kofi vs. Morrison/Miz 10/20/08
w/Michaels vs. Jericho/Cade 9/26/08


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Best finish you say huh? Hmm, not sure. Tbh, I'm not really a guy that goes off on finishes, which is kinda weird I guess considering that the finish can make or break a wrestling match.I don't know, it's just that, to me, a once a match is solid throughout and the finish makes sense in relation to what took place throughout it's a damn good match.

Usually, when discussing finishes, people often refer to the sequence which I don't really care for. Don't get me wrong, it's cool to see a zillion reversals or that fiery hot ass tag or comeback but I'm not "Oh my God, they reversed each other's tombstones 100 times and ducked each other super kicks and bounced off the ropes, I'm marking out" kinda guy. 

So with all that shit being said, imo, the perfect finish is the finish that makes sense. I appreciated Ziggler/Del Rio for what the outcome of the match achieved. It's very rare in a wrestling match do you see babyface and heel roles switch and very few can pull it off. Ziggler and Del Rio managed to do it with Ziggler's sympathetic selling and Del Rio's insensitive, ruthless tactics. From that point of view, I guess that is the best finish this year. Ziggler/Del Rio was a work of art. 

However, in terms of just badassery and leaving the audience hot, any D-Bryan finish this year was great. I really liked the no-DQ with Orton. Everything just clicked and made sense.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

RVD is not the only guy who came out just to show off his championship in SummerSlam history. Witness Randy Orton do it as the youngest World Heavyweight Champion in 2004!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best finish this year for me might actually be Henry Vs Ryback.

I say this because let's get real here, heading into Wrestlemania if I had to ask anybody what the finish of the Ryback-Henry contest would be, the answer I would have received would have been that Ryback would have shell shocked Henry & defeated him clean. To tease that finish but to swerve into a completely different direction was completely fucking awesome in every single way, whether it be booking wise (HENRY), creativity wise, or a finish that makes sense in the overall story of strength Vs strength.

I really like that match way more than most.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> RVD is not the only guy who came out just to show off his championship in SummerSlam history. Witness Randy Orton do it as the youngest World Heavyweight Champion in 2004!


:lmao

And Taker/JBL main evented.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> I personally enjoyed the Hell RK-No/Shield Tag from SD much more. All performances came off much more natural to me. Though I still dug the Raw one too.


Same. I just watched it and thought it was great. Best Shield 6 man this year behind the one with Kofi and maybe Elimination Chamber.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Read a report that they might do something screwy with Lesnar/Punk.  

I agree that they kinda booked themselves into a corner with this match. Lesnar really shouldn't be losing any more matches until Taker @ WM30, and Punk has basically lost every big match this year. That being said, I still say Lesnar should go over, and decisively.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Read a report that they might do something screwy with Lesnar/Punk.
> 
> I agree that they kinda booked themselves into a corner with this match. Lesnar really shouldn't be losing any more matches until Taker @ WM30, and Punk has basically lost every big match this year. That being said, I still say Lesnar should go over, and decisively.


Agreed. Unless they want to continue this program for the next 1-2 PPV's there should be a decisive victory for Lesnar. Punk can handle all the losses he has taken this year, and still handle a bunch more and he would still be as over as ever. Lesnar needs the victory to keep the monster aura going. If he loses to someone as small as Punk it might hurt his credibility.

My favorite finish this year was either Henry vs Ryback at mania (I don't care what you say, Henry getting shellshocked at wrestlemania was a MOMENT.) or Ziggler vs ADR at Payback for the obvious drama and storytelling that was done.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> RVD is not the only guy who came out just to show off his championship in SummerSlam history. Witness Randy Orton do it as the youngest World Heavyweight Champion in 2004!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

They have booked themselves into a HUGE corner here in regards to Brock-Punk. You don't want Brock jobbing to anybody at this point (if he had of never lost one of his two matches that he did lose it probably would have been fine) and you certainly don't want Punk losing to every single big name the company pairs him with either, having lost decisively to Rock/Taker/HHH. 

It all boils down to where they're going from here to be honest. If Brock is going to work with Taker at XXX then he should win and I have no doubts about that, but if they're just trying to build up Brock for a match against Rock? Well then he can lose every single fucking match he performs in as far as I'm concerned, as Brock-Rock & Brock-Taker are pretty much equal in terms of predictability for me, at least Brock-Taker has AMAZING potential on paper. So yeah, I won't really know who SHOULD win this until after it's all over .

I'd love to see them stretch this out though; keep Punk-Heyman running through Night of Champions (because Punk's bigger than every Championship sans WWE & they aren't putting him in that match) & Battleground, and do the Brock-Punk rematch in the CELL in October to instantly restore the PPV's credibility. So if I were to book the Punk-Brock series I'd have Punk go over first and then Brock go over in a HIAC match to end the feud. If it's just one match? Fuck if I know.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh, and I have Angle vs HBK at Mania21 at ****1/4*. Come at me bro . sorry I just enjoy it so much it's a guilty pleasure, same as Benoit vs Angle at Rumble03. I know they are just spot fests with no psychology, but they still entertain me because of thrill of watching 2 masters of chain wrestling just do machine gun rapid spots. You guys can call them garbage matches and you wouldnt be wrong, but its not like their isnt skill involved. i consider it no different then someone who loves indie music or underground hip hop suddenly finding themselves eenjoying the new Beyonce bubblegum pop song. shit happens we cant help what we find entertaining. I can enjoy the well done spot fest everyonce in a while, so sue me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cesaro/Zayn I- Meh, it got the job done. Can't really rate it tbh.

Cesaro/Zayn II- ***


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 made a good post in regarding to the outcome of the Brock/Punk match. He said that Punk is today's Mick Foley/Y2J where a loss to the big stars wouldn't hurt him completely. If Brock is going to work with the Undertaker then he should win this match 100%. CM Punk can still look strong if he puts on a brave underdog performance. I would mark if CM Punk passes out to a submission move. Similar to how Austin passed out to the sharpshooter.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Still a few matches I need to track down before I'm fully up to date but this is THE LIST so far:

1. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
2. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
3. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
4. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
5. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
6. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
7. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
8. Antonio Cesaro v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (7/10/13)
9. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (6/12/13)
10. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
11. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
12. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton v The Shield - Smackdown (6/14/13)
13. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
14. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)
15. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
16. Antonio Cesaro v Sheamus - Main Event (6/5/13)
17. Sheamus v Wade Barrett - Main Event (5/29/13)
18. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane v The Shield - Raw (4/29/13)
19. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Undertaker v The Shield - Raw (4/22/13)
20. Chris Jericho, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Raw (2/18/13)
21. Antonio Cesaro v Sheamus - Smackdown (6/14/13)
22. Daniel Bryan v Seth Rollins - Raw (6/10/13)
23. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (2/13/13)
24. Dolph Ziggler v Sheamus - Main Event (1/9/13)
25. John Cena v Mark Henry - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
26. Alberto Del Rio v Dolph Ziggler - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
27. Kofi Kingston v Antonio Cesaro - Main Event (5/1/13)
28. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton v The Shield - Raw (6/3/13)
29. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Smackdown (5/3/13)
30. Christian v Randy Orton v Rob Van Dam - Smackdown (8/2/13)
31. CM Punk v Ryback - Raw (1/7/13)

Cesaro/Bryan will be there for sure once I re-watch it. 



sharkboy22 said:


> Cesaro/Zayn II- ***


Why so low?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> funnyfaces1 made a good post in regarding to the outcome of the Brock/Punk match. He said that Punk is today's Mick Foley/Y2J where a loss to the big stars wouldn't hurt him completely. If Brock is going to work with the Undertaker then he should win this match 100%. CM Punk can still look strong if he puts on a brave underdog performance. I would mark if CM Punk passes out to a submission move. Similar to how Austin passed out to the sharpshooter.


So true. Mick Foley might have won maybe 25% of his matches while in WWE AT MOST, but it never hurt him because people loved and respected him so much. Punk isn't there yet in terms of love/respectability, but I will say he can sustain a loss better than anyone, including Cena, right now. If Cena could sustain losses as well as Punk, he wouldn't always win


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Oh, and I have Angle vs HBK at Mania21 at ****1/4*. Come at me bro . sorry I just enjoy it so much it's a guilty pleasure, same as Benoit vs Angle at Rumble03. I know they are just spot fests with no psychology, but they still entertain me because of thrill of watching 2 masters of chain wrestling just do machine gun rapid spots. I can enjoy the well done spot fest everyonce in a while, so sue me.


Personally the Shawn/Angle one is indeed a roller-coaster of oohs and aahs, and some of those tiny things they did, like HBK trying to prove he is better than Angle by outdoing him in his own game, or the (attemptted) work by Angle on Shawn's injured back, or Kurt flat out murdering Shawn with those clotheslines, just put a smile in my face... yeah, it's certainly rather overrated by it's still quite the landmark as far as modern day dream matches go.

Angle/Benoit on the other hand is soomething I can only enjoy if I completely shut off my brain


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Zayn/Cesaro 2 is pretty good *** is kinda low


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Why so low?


I really can't go higher than ***1/4 tbh. The match is pretty solid but nothing really stands out about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Except for the the exceptional work put forth by both? It's a great showing for Zayn and an ever greater showing for Cesaro.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, so I'm going to download the entire show just to watch Bryan/Cena. I have to see it dammit! lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, that match is probably closer to **** for me if I was to issue a rating.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, so I'm going to download the entire show just to watch Bryan/Cena. I have to see it dammit! lol.


 Someone posted a youtube video yesterday showing the entire episode.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Boy, I should have just said nothing about Cesaro/Zayn lol. Don't get me wrong, i liked the match. I loved the aggressiveness Cesaro brought at the start and Zayn had some nice little comebacks. It was a good match. I will categorize it as above-average. It's a nice little sneak peak of what these two could do if give 15+ minutes.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I really can't go higher than ***1/4 tbh. The match is pretty solid but nothing really stands out about it.


Fair enough. Personally I think it's a great match with two strong individual performances. Cesaro's striking was some of the hardest I've seen this year and Zayn sold well and timed his comeback spots nicely. I liked the focus on Cesaro's chinlock aiming to ground Zayn and not give him any openings to fly or catch him off guard with the roll up like he did in the first match. Cesaro's intent to hurt Zayn because he embarrassed him, but also to make sure he wasn't reckless and didn't get embarrassed again was perfectly executed. Excellent stuff from my point of view.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I don't really see any justification for a Punk win tbh. Bloke has a connection with the crowd that isn't dependent on winning every big match. You run Punk/Lesnar II at some point and the people already rooting for Punk will be there again in abundance. The only way Punk can win is if they plan to have this mark the culmination of the Punk/Heyman feud, which seems unlikely given Heyman's association to Axel and the fact there's no evidence he'll cease being a TV presence.

Lesnar is a special attraction and marquee player, so him winning and gradually restoring his image and legitimacy is key. He's Brock so of course he'll never truly lose that aura of intimidation and violence, but you have to book him well to keep people invested in him. Having him continually lose will more than likely alert the audience that a Lesnar title run/title match is unlikely, whereas winning his irregular matches keeps him in contention and firmly in the company's plans. Not to mention wrestling is built on establishing the heel at the expense of the babyface initially and building to the eventual comeuppance. 

There's no reason Punk can't valiantly fall to Lesnar whilst looking resilient in the process and then embark in a long running feud with Heyman reminding him of his failure and taunting him to keep their program running. Imagine Punk/Cena for the title if Cena is still champion by Survivor Series with the foreshadowing of Cena going after Punk's record, or Heyman trying to discredit Punk's BITW persona by bringing up his losing streak on the biggest stage. If they plan to have him win The Rumble then it could be a great payoff to a long running angle with Heyman trying to ruin Punk's image and personal life at every opportunity, and given how very few genuine stars the current roster has there's absolutely every possible reason they could run a big rematch down the line where Punk goes over.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> Someone posted a youtube video yesterday showing the entire episode.


Well, that saved me some time. 

Thanks man.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> :lmao
> 
> And Taker/JBL main evented.


Haha, the comment section has totally gotten out of control for that one. They usually take down all the comments that mention Benoit's name but here, they would have to disable comments entirely to keep his name from being seen in the video.

About time they are allowing comments even if they are still control freaks about it.



The Lady Killer said:


> That being said, I still say Lesnar should go over, and decisively.


Just let him win and I'm good. That's all I want from them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Boy, I should have just said nothing about Cesaro/Zayn lol. Don't get me wrong, i liked the match. I loved the aggressiveness Cesaro brought at the start and Zayn had some nice little comebacks. It was a good match. I will categorize it as above-average. It's a nice little sneak peak of what these two could do if give 15+ minutes.


Nah. It's all fair, i'm just a bit surprised that's all. Thought it was a great display from both under a sub-11 minute span where Zayn got to establish his babyface in peril work & Cesaro's uber-fascinating aggressive streak/domination periods. A new wrinkle in the series for these two, who have had some classics prior to WWE imo. They've already adapted to the WWE style so well. And Zayn has only been signed since this year. Tbhayley, I'm not surprised. :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Towards the end


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/WOOLCOCK's wall of text.

Lesnar needs the win more than Punk at the moment, and this can build to a huge babyface moment for Punk early next year if they choose him as the Rumble winner. This is similar to what _should_ have happened w/Cena in 2012 - losing to The Rock at Mania then to BROCK at ER, but, well, we all know how that turned out. :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No dont be embarrassed its better when ppl have different opinions and everyone is not the same. Saying that I liked Cesaro/Zayn 2 alot so the rating caught my eye


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I've not even see their rematch yet but I love how the typical jesters ridiculing Generico's chances under the Zayn moniker and WWE style are already seeing their doubts fall apart. Generico established himself on the indy scene as being a throwback to old school wrestling in terms of his happy go lucky character and ring style. Don't get me wrong I didn't consider him as well rounded as say Bryan (few issues I thought he was prone to, albeit I could never knock his babyface performances), but its already evident by removing the mask they've allowed him to emote facially and connect with an audience without the restriction of a mask. His bumping, selling and timing was always apparent on the indy scene and is only heightened working a style which requires all of these intangibles in order to succeed. He's a ready made future babyface and could easily become an uppercard player at minimum based on his ringwork and personality.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Great to see that somebody cared for one of my posts. Thank you Oliver-94! They better not do the rumored ending Double Countout/DQ 

This better be a Last Man Standing match like the original dirtsheet rumors said it was. Just let Lesnar do to Punk what he did to Cena, then have Punk find Lesnar's weakness (abdomen) like HHH did in the Summerslam match, and as soon as Punk is about to finish Lesnar, have Heyman save Lesnar by hitting Punk with a chair from behind. Then have Lesnar dominate with an ending similar to HHH/Flair Survivor Series. I'd be satisfied with something like that, and knowing how good both Lesnar and Punk are, they can formulate a match better than all three of the ones I just named. Soon enough, Punk will continue on his streak of *****1/2* matches rated by Meltzer unk


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not gonna say I'll rage if Punk wins. b/c I won't. but I'm fully expecting a Brock win and the eventual rematch where Punk goes over. Don't know when that second one will go down. Still thinking it's gonna happen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only one who's more excited for Cena/Bryan than Punk/Lesnar?

:cena4 :bryan


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So stoked for Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls.

And Punk/Lesnar.

And Cena/Bryan.

:mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> Am I the only one who's more excited for Cena/Bryan than Punk/Lesnar?
> 
> :cena4 :bryan


Nope.



Saint Dick said:


> So stoked for Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls.
> 
> And Punk/Lesnar.
> 
> ...


Me too. Gonna be a good week for wrestling next week.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I have no idea why they even need a stipulation tbh. Brock can believeably injure and hurt someone in a singles match without the need for weapons and a WWE brawl is usually more prop orientated than a classic brawl from the territories era. No reason they can't work stiff and have Punk willingly throw himself around to put over Lesnar's aura and power and work classic babyface hope spots and build to a finish.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm just amped to see Lesnar toss Punk around and follow it up with a trademark SMIRK.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm excited for the PPV as a whole. Kane/Wyatt has been confirmed as pretty much a Inferno match, so I'm poked for that. And my personal dream match of Sandow/Rhodes too. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Also heard a rumor that RVD/Cesaro could be added as a pre-show match. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is there a stip being rumored to be added? b/c that's eh. I like the nature of how it's wild without having some street fight thing tied behind it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I really don't think Lesnar/Punk needs a gimmick. 

Cesaro is one of the only guys on the roster that could get me excited for a RVD match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If they really insist on a stipulation then NHB would work. Eliminates the pitfalls of relying on props but allows them to work more openly and work sequences outside of the ring to add to the violence.

I'm more interested in Bryan/Cena simply because Bryan is the one last remaining wrestler who winning the title would get a legitimate reaction out of me. I think it can easily eclipse Punk/Lesnar if they work it right given Cena excels working as 'the ace' and Bryan is as good as anyone to be placed in a role where he has to prove himself to the world in the biggest match of his career. Lesnar/Punk will probably have a structure more suited to producing a great match if both play their part right (babyface bumps around for monster heel, face gets hope spots in, heel begins to show vulnerability gradually, finishing stretch where babyface gets strong nearfalls before finish) however.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The problem with keeping it a regular match is that Punk does not look believable in any way against Lesnar in that environment. Weapons are the equalizer and they actually have some sort of purpose here unlike your typical HHH/Cena/Orton garbage match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Also heard a rumor that RVD/Cesaro could be added as a pre-show match. :mark:


OMG :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> If they really insist on a stipulation then NHB would work. Eliminates the pitfalls of relying on props but allows them to work more openly and work sequences outside of the ring to add to the violence.
> 
> I'm more interested in Bryan/Cena simply because Bryan is the one last remaining wrestler who winning the title would get a legitimate reaction out of me. I think it can easily eclipse Punk/Lesnar if they work it right given Cena excels working as 'the ace' and Bryan is as good as anyone to be placed in a role where he has to prove himself to the world in the biggest match of his career. Lesnar/Punk will probably have a structure more suited to producing a great match if both play their part right (babyface bumps around for monster heel, face gets hope spots in, heel begins to show vulnerability gradually, finishing stretch where babyface gets strong nearfalls before finish) however.



I like the idea of a NHB match with punk vs Lesnar, but only if this is gonna be a blow off OR if they are gonna follow up at HIAC. Punk being able to use a chair or weapon can lend credibility to his control segments, because believe me if you thought Cena vs Punk looked like a total mismatch body size wise, wait till you see punk in their with Lesnar. Punks gonna have to work extra stiff to keep it believable.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wouldn't mind seeing RVD flop around for Cesaro's offense.

Five Star Frog Splash countered by Swiss Death plz.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RVD/Cesaro, if given around 15 of the 30 minutes of the pre-show, could Shield/Usos the show (my expression for stealing the show before it even begins 8*D ).

And if it does happen, Shield/Henry & Show would be business.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The problem with keeping it a regular match is that Punk does not look believable in any way against Lesnar in that environment. Weapons are the equalizer and they actually have some sort of purpose here unlike your typical HHH/Cena/Orton garbage match.


Punk getting his ass kicked repeatedly whilst repeatedly trying to find an opening feels like a solid structure for my money. There's no reason they can't be creative in how Punk creates little openings (dropping Lesnar across the ropes throat first, baiting him into hitting the ringpost etc) but have the aim of the match revolve around Punk never being able to threaten Lesnar for a prolonged period with Lesnar constantly finding a way to nullify any opening Punk creates.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Basically, they just need to extrapolate on the brawls that have taken place on Raw. Those have gone perfectly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If there is a God, and if Bryan wins the title, the WWE should hire *Yoshihiko* to face him. ***** match right there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Basically, they just need to extrapolate on the brawls that have taken place on Raw. Those have gone perfectly.


Agreed. The body of the match is likely going to revolve around Punk desperately trying to compete with Brock but ultimately falling short everytime. There's no reason they can't find ways to give Punk small moments of promise only to have to start again when Lesnar shrugs it off.

I legit have no interest in RVD outside of his bumping on DDTs. Cesaro is as good as anybody to drag something half way decent out of him though given his amazing offence and how bumping is about the one thing RVD has consistently shown a bit of aptitude in. Sucks that Cesaro will again not be afforded time on a PPV to reproduce his TV exploits but its a step in the right direction.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly don't remember hell RKo/shield raw and reigns/rollins vs hell no


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If Punk/Lesnar goes the way you guys are suggesting, the comeback stretch is going to be fucking amazing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If Punk/Lesnar is as good as the segments, you'll have more than just MOTY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That whole idea of Punk not being believable to work vs Brock unless he has weapons is baffling. Umm, what about Brock in all other stages of his career? He's always been a beast. Yes, in reality he could pretty much kill ANYONE on that roster. However, wrestling can suspend belief. That's the beauty of it. Punk taking a beating while finding ways or being dead on as a fearless underdog is more than enough structure to get behind. It worked for Eddie Guerrero. Why couldn't it work for Punk? b/c Brock went to UFC and came back? C'mon now. That mentality would kill any scenario of a Brock Lesnar match unless they're always going to be worked under a gimmick.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but Eddie was JACKED~!~! :vince


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> That whole idea of Punk not being believable to work vs Brock unless he has weapons is baffling. Umm, what about Brock in all other stages of his career? He's always been a beast. Yes, in reality he could pretty much kill ANYONE on that roster. However, wrestling can suspend belief. That's the beauty of it. Punk taking a beating while finding ways or being dead on as a fearless underdog is more than enough structure to get behind. It worked for Eddie Guerrero. Why couldn't it work for Punk? b/c Brock went to UFC and came back? C'mon now. That mentality would kill any scenario of a Brock Lesnar match unless they're always going to be worked under a gimmick.


This.

That's also why I don't get the criticism of the Brock/HHH matches being worked too evenly. They weren't anyways, in none of the matches did HHH go toe to toe with Brock unless he gained a believable advantage.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> That whole idea of Punk not being believable to work vs Brock unless he has weapons is baffling. Umm, what about Brock in all other stages of his career? He's always been a beast. Yes, in reality he could pretty much kill ANYONE on that roster. However, wrestling can suspend belief. That's the beauty of it. Punk taking a beating while finding ways or being dead on as a fearless underdog is more than enough structure to get behind. It worked for Eddie Guerrero. Why couldn't it work for Punk? b/c Brock went to UFC and came back? C'mon now. That mentality would kill any scenario of a Brock Lesnar match unless they're always going to be worked under a gimmick.


Don't you know you're not supposed to remember that, Cody? You're not supposed to remember what happened this week, let alone 9 years ago for Jesus sakes!

:vince4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's how the biz works, brother.

unk


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Silly Cody, you really think a little skinny fat dirty fried cooker from waffle house can be BROCK LESNAR :heyman2 :lmao

may watch angle/austin ss 01 for the first time, you watch it yet TLK ?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> may watch angle/austin ss 01 for the first time


You won't be disappointed.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Wrestling is all about the suspension of disbelief. If they want Punk to get in shine segments at Brock's expense, they'll do it and make it work regardless of people arguing Punk should be obliterated in under 60 seconds because that's how it would presumably go in a real life setting. Its all about taking Punk the fighter and heroic/stubborn individual up against the monstrous Lesnar and building a match around both character ideals and generating drama and interest through the sequences. All talk about Punk's build and the believeability aspect is just picking straws and ignoring the carny and entertainment aspect of wrestling. Its grown men wrestling half naked to resolve deep rooted issues, let's leave logic and legitimacy at the door.


Patiently awaiting someone to call Cody Rhodes a better worker than Dustin in that Rhodes family thread. Its inevitable, as is my imminent rage when I see said lunacy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> may watch angle/austin ss 01 for the first time, you watch it yet TLK ?


No 

I did watch the Invasion vs WWF Survivor Series 2001 elimination match finally, though. 

edit - Has anyone seen Rey vs Brock from SD 2003? The match could go exactly like that and I'd be happy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're in for one hell of a time, skins. It's wrestling heaven.

Don't worry, SI. For as much as I do like Cody Rhodes, Goldustin is going to be the tops for life.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> No
> 
> I did watch the Invasion vs WWF Survivor Series 2001 elimination match finally, though.
> 
> edit - Has anyone seen Rey vs Brock from SD 2003? The match could go exactly like that and I'd be happy.


Rey/Brock from 11/29/03 iirc? That shit is *epic*. Brock Lock :ex:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I was at that SD, actually. Rey got a title shot since it was in San Diego. Crowd was electric for that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Brock/Rey was excellent albeit the match will have to be a bit different. Punk doesn't have the speed and natural agility to work like that, so I imagine it'll be Punk using his intellect to try and outmanoeuvre Lesnar and then use quick strikes to try and seize the initiative. 

Really Punk's style is hypothetically a bigger issue than his size, though neither in practice is too damaging that it can't be rectified. He's not as agile as Bourne, Rey or even Bryan to work cat & mouse exchanges, and he's not as good at striking and working bigger than his actual size like Bryan is so he's sort of caught in the middle. Luckily Punk coped fine against Ryback and using his intelligence to seize control whilst bumping big for everything Ryback did and the Henry matches were again more evidence that Punk can work effectively vs heavyweights.

Main issue to be understood from this rambling is that Lesnar/Bryan would be outstanding. Stylistically and in terms of character dynamic I don't think there's a more apt and better suited matchup for Brock.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bork Smashing by throwing Rey around like a ragdoll was really a sight to behold. And Rey pulling out an opening like only he can. Everybody should watch this.

Smackdown 2003 is the wrestling version of Zeus' palace in heaven :vince5


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Right, SI, I was just insinuating that Punk should work most of the match underneath, as Rey did, and cleverly finding his openings here and there. Obviously, Punk isn't nearly as quick as Rey, so he'll have to rely on his craftiness and wit.

If Bryan does win the title I should think/hope Bryan/BROCK isn't that far off from a possibility.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The fact that Brock vs Danielson almost seems possible these days is enough to want to hug the more than occasional mongs that work for WWE. That window of something awesome just opened. Admittedly, I'm glad with the two big time matches given at SummerSlam first. Punk vs Brock is huge & the next (or only) big thing left for Punker to do. Danielson is rising and he can only grow to be larger than life so if - key word there - the clash vs Brock ever did happen, it would be more mega than atm.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Right, SI, I was just insinuating that Punk should work most of the match underneath, as Rey did, and cleverly finding his openings here and there. Obviously, Punk isn't nearly as quick as Rey, so he'll have to rely on his craftiness and wit.
> 
> If Bryan does win the title I should think/hope Bryan/BROCK isn't that far off from a possibility.


Yeah I knew where you were coming from, was just more using it as a way to segue into Brock/Bryan matching up better stylistically since Punk is caught between Bryan & Mysterio in terms of lacking their natural agility and speed as well as Bryan's striking ability in order to wrestle believeably beyond his size.

Punk's striking is often pretty horrid but given he'll be working largely underneath for the duration they should be able to minimise how many he'll throw and in that regard they can easily pose the idea that Punk catching Lesnar off guard and rocking him when he's stunned is his best chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean those KENTA-esque strikes? :hmm:


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

The Brock/Rey match made me have more hope in Punk/Brock since Lesnar is shown to work really well with smaller opponents. If Punk wins I don't see it being clean but in a face way like with Eddie/Brock.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Jericho Payback is nowhere near as disgraceful as the Punk/Rock Royal Rumble rating. Good heavens, nothing about it is deserved of a ******. Man also shat on Great American Bash 1992, which consisted of arguably the best tag team work ever in an American event.


I've noticed that he definitely has a preference toward Punk. Anything involving him tends to get higher rated than I think most people would give his matches. Also, when I look up matches that involve many men, when they involve Punk, it undoubtedly is higher rated than most. Not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with that, because when you enjoy a person, you're bound to enjoy their work more. But I can almost predict what's going to happen now, when a match involves Punk. 



SonoShion said:


> Thoughts on Katsuyori Shibata vs. Tomohiro Ishii from Sunday? Tried but can't agree with Meltzer's ***** rating. Here the clip if you haven't seen it.


So the guy was getting brutalized to the point where shit was coming out of his mouth, but suddenly he's the ferocious attacker, and wins with a simple suplex? Unless he's Hulk Hogan or something Hulking up, I don't see how this is logical. Well, it was a pretty enjoyable match, but yeah, I'm not this is five stars.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brainbuster, fyi.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> You mean those KENTA-esque strikes? :hmm:


Man should never throw a mongolian chop again in his life. His basic kicks at the legs aren't too bad and the odd roundhouse kick to the temple looks good. I think the one kick he's forever struggled with though was the spin kick to the stomach, never really had the ability to pull that one off effectively from memory.

God damn all this discussion about striking ability vs Lesnar has me craving Lesnar/Tajiri. That would be tremendous in any timeframe. Lesnar's really underrated in terms of selling for smaller guys in a believeable manner.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did Brock vs Tajiri ever happen? I'm not sure. I know they teamed up and it was quite fabulous.

Punker's strikes have their good moments. Then some bad. He tries & luckily it doesn't look too trashy. Nor has it been a point to where he centers his offense around it too. It's more or less a transitional phase while he's in peril or trying to gain a quick advantage. The roundhouse kick to the head is legit. He's even wiped out Batista with it. Such an awesome moment from GAB '08.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm only ten minutes in and I'm already in love :lmao, Angle just finished performing 100 germans haha


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Did Brock vs Tajiri ever happen? I'm not sure. I know they teamed up and it was quite fabulous.
> 
> Punker's strikes have their good moments. Then some bad. He tries & luckily it doesn't look too trashy. Nor has it been a point to where he centers his offense around it too. It's more or less a transitional phase while he's in peril or trying to gain a quick advantage. The roundhouse kick to the head is legit. He's even wiped out Batista with it. Such an awesome moment from GAB '08.


Not that I can recall.

Yeah he worked them believeably during the Henry series from last year so I know he's very capable in that regard, plus in the context of the match he's going to be having minimal offence and he's more than capable of working underneath superbly to produce a stellar match. I have no doubt this will be worked more closely to Cena/Lesnar than HHH/Lesnar in terms of the babyface/heel dynamic and how much vulnerability Punk will show for the duration of the match.

God damn someone said Angle was better than Dustin and it only took 12 posts. Arsewipe.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> That whole idea of Punk not being believable to work vs Brock unless he has weapons is baffling. Umm, what about Brock in all other stages of his career? He's always been a beast. Yes, in reality he could pretty much kill ANYONE on that roster. However, wrestling can suspend belief. That's the beauty of it. Punk taking a beating while finding ways or being dead on as a fearless underdog is more than enough structure to get behind. It worked for Eddie Guerrero. Why couldn't it work for Punk? b/c Brock went to UFC and came back? C'mon now. That mentality would kill any scenario of a Brock Lesnar match unless they're always going to be worked under a gimmick.


I'm sorry bro but trying to compare Eddie Guerrero to CM Punk body size wise is a joke. Eddie was completely ripped, he was just short. Plus Eddie has a history of being a serious Mat wrestler to add credibility. CM Punk has neither. I'm not saying it can't work, because my second favorite match ever was HBK vs Taker HIAC. But in that match taker essentially squashed HBK, with small segments were HBK would gain control only to get squashed again. and if you remember that whole angle started with HBK crushing takers skull with a chair. 

My point is, for me to be able to suspend disbelief, Punk is either gonna have to use a weapon/outside interference, or Brock is essentially gonna have to squash Punk the whole time with just small little Punk segments mixed in. That's the only way I see it going down. But you know what? If they follow that plan, this could be an AMAZING match. Like I said in an earlier post I just hope Punker works extra stiff this match to add credibility. Thats how Jericho, Eddie, and Benoit always seemed believable even against huge opponents. You could hear that smack of flesh when they were throwing punches.

I'm just as excited for Cena vs Daniel Bryan. I don't know what story they are going to tell in the ring, I just know that as of late anything involving Bryan has = Awesomeness.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Brainbuster, fyi.


Really? I actually rewound it to make sure I wasn't missing something, because I figured that it couldn't have just been a suplex. Still didn't look too much like he was going for a head drop, as usually that looks more impactful to me, but watching it for a third time now, I see that you're right. I still think it could have been executed better and more powerfully, but maybe I'm just not used to that wrestler's style. 

What were your thoughts on the match, btw?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> So the guy was getting brutalized to the point where shit was coming out of his mouth, but suddenly he's the ferocious attacker, and wins with a simple suplex? Unless he's Hulk Hogan or something Hulking up, I don't see how this is logical. Well, it was a pretty enjoyable match, but yeah, I'm not this is five stars.



That match made zero, and I mean zero, fucking sense. I don't watch a lot of Japanese stuff but holy hell. Giving that 5 stars is an insult to all the great 5 star matches that have been held. They just kicked and slapped each other the whole time. Hardly any actual wrestling. That was weird to say the least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> I've noticed that he definitely has a preference toward Punk. Anything involving him tends to get higher rated than I think most people would give his matches. Also, when I look up matches that involve many men, when they involve Punk, it undoubtedly is higher rated than most. Not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with that, because when you enjoy a person, you're bound to enjoy their work more. But I can almost predict what's going to happen now, when a match involves Punk.


The love for Punk's match didn't exactly formulate until this year. I really don't know what caused it, but I think it's because Punk has reached that "living legend" status now, and Meltzer probably adds more to his star ratings because of the big match feel behind those matches. On top of that, Punk works a back-and-forth style that Meltzer loves. I honestly don't remember anyone, not even Misawa or Kobashi, that got four straight *****1/2* ratings like Punk has, and it is almost likely that the streak taker) will continue on after Summerslam. I remember last year, he actually said that he wasn't too fond of Punk, and he didn't really overrate any of Punk's matches. Heck if anything, he disrespected the 2012 Punk/Jericho matches.

Don't get me wrong guys. I think Punk would excel in a normal singles match environment against Lesnar. The Henry/Punk matches among others show that he can work perfectly fine as the scrappy face that uses intelligence and relentlessness to prevail. However, I just can't see another Lesnar match being anything but a NHB kind of match with the way he has been built up. On top of that, so far the only way Punk obtained an advantage in their brawls was with the help of a chair. Nothing wrong with a match without stipulations, but I feel that it will be highly unlikely and that these two guys won't "force" anything to happen like HHH does. If we get anything like Lesnar/Benoit though, then we can all be perfectly happy.

Execution of maneuvers is really the one thing holding Punk back from being on the level of the all-time greats. His kicks and strikes seem to look sloppy for two reasons: his poorly conditioned core/abdomen which restricts rotation of his hips and his range of motion, and the fact that Punk errs too much on the side of caution and safety instead of stiffness and physicality. He doesn't have a problem with hitting bigger opponents that won't get hurt from his strikes such as Henry or Big Show, but against guys his size, he looks very sloppy.

Brock/Bryan could potentially be the GOAT match. If it is anything like the Morishima series, then expect to mark out. Still haven't seen the Man Up match though. Can't find it anywhere!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> That match made zero, and I mean zero, fucking sense. I don't watch a lot of Japanese stuff but holy hell. Giving that 5 stars is an insult to all the great 5 star matches that have been held. They just kicked and slapped each other the whole time. Hardly any actual wrestling. That was weird to say the least.


The only thing I can say about the comeback is that it did sort of fit into that wrestler's presentation the whole time. He had a "come at me, bro" disposition the whole time, and would make bursts of comebacks throughout the whole thing. So I guess it did sort of fit into character. 

Still not quite sure why he loves it _that_ much, but maybe it does stand out in comparison to whatever else was going on at that time. And I probably highly rate things that others don't see much in, so I guess that's life!


ETA: funnyfaces1, thanks for explaining. I was under the impression that he probably always loved Punk since the ROH days. Why did he say that he didn't like him? What was his reasoning?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Comparing Japanese wrestling to the American style isn't preferable. You can't go into a match with the expectations of what you want out of a WWE/TNA/Indy match since the style is so fundamentally different. Wrestling in Japan is treated with a more professional and polished manner. Wins and losses don't mean as much but rather how both wrestlers are perceived and how much fight and resilience they demonstrate. They utilise a far more physical and striking style compared to US wrestling, especially New Japan which historically under Antonio Inoki always presented itself as showcasing 'strong style' wrestling: e.g more violent and realistic offence as well as submission wrestling.

That match really wasn't hard to understand once you know the two wrestlers. Shibata was in New Japan but left for MMA and recently returned. He carried a big reputation as a rookie prior to his departure and his return alongside MMA legend Sakuraba caused a lot of discussion. Ishii is your typical podgy and overlooked worker who's extremely talented. He wrestles a physical style but is booked as a perpetual underdog continually trying to overcome his reputation and upset the bigger names on the roster. Shibata utilising more of a shoot style and strike based offence against Ishii who is a natural underdog really was only going to end one way: strike exchanges dominating over grappling with the story being Ishii trying to match Shibata and become a bigger threat as the match wore on.

Really you need to understand the stylistic differences between Puro & US wrestling as well as the character dynamics to truly understand and spot what makes a great match in Japan from a great match in America. You don't get traditional selling and heat segments like you do in America, its far more 50/50 and competitive throughout with momentum shifts to reflect the more 'realistic' presentation of wrestling over in Japan and especially New Japan's style.

* Bear in mind this is written by someone who generally doesn't care for the current New Japan style compared to its days in the 80s and 90s for a variety of reasons, but who did love Ishii/Shibata.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Comparing Japanese wrestling to the American style isn't preferable. You can't go into a match with the expectations of what you want out of a WWE/TNA/Indy match since the style is so fundamentally different. Wrestling in Japan is treated with a more professional and polished manner. Wins and losses don't mean as much but rather how both wrestlers are perceived and how much fight and resilience they demonstrate. They utilise a far more physical and striking style compared to US wrestling, especially New Japan which historically under Antonio Inoki always presented itself as showcasing 'strong style' wrestling: e.g more violent and realistic offence as well as submission wrestling.
> 
> That match really wasn't hard to understand once you know the two wrestlers. Shibata was in New Japan but left for MMA and recently returned. He carried a big reputation as a rookie prior to his departure and his return alongside MMA legend Sakuraba caused a lot of discussion. Ishii is your typical podgy and overlooked worker who's extremely talented. He wrestles a physical style but is booked as a perpetual underdog continually trying to overcome his reputation and upset the bigger names on the roster. Shibata utilising more of a shoot style and strike based offence against Ishii who is a natural underdog really was only going to end one way: strike exchanges dominating over grappling with the story being Ishii trying to match Shibata and become a bigger threat as the match wore on.
> 
> ...



Wow. Thanks a lot man that helps a lot in explaining what I was seeing. I was just so confused watching it and that's because I'm totally ignorant as to Japanese wrestling tradition. I appreciate you breaking that down, props.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm watching the Lesnar vs Angle Ironman match right now. I've only seen the hbk vs hart ironman (hated it) and the rock vs triple h one (mehhhhj). I'm really liking this one so far though, I'm about 30 minutes through and love the psychology of it and the story being told.



Edit- does anyone know of a good Benoit vs Lesnar match? I just got both guys DVD sets so I've been watching a ton of their matches, and I really wanna see one of them against each other. :mark:

Edit 2- can we bring Tazz back just to commentate on Brock Lesnar's matches? I don't ask for much, I just love hearing Tazz's kickin Brooklyn accent when he says Brock Lesna' hahaha. He sounds like he drank about 5 red bulls before each match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> God damn someone said Angle was better than Dustin and it only took 12 posts. Arsewipe.


Vintage WWE section by the sound of it.



cjack828 said:


> I'm sorry bro but trying to compare Eddie Guerrero to CM Punk body size wise is a joke. Eddie was completely ripped, he was just short. Plus Eddie has a history of being a serious Mat wrestler to add credibility. CM Punk has neither. I'm not saying it can't work, because my second favorite match ever was HBK vs Taker HIAC. But in that match taker essentially squashed HBK, with small segments were HBK would gain control only to get squashed again. and if you remember that whole angle started with HBK crushing takers skull with a chair.
> 
> My point is, for me to be able to suspend disbelief, Punk is either gonna have to use a weapon/outside interference, or Brock is essentially gonna have to squash Punk the whole time with just small little Punk segments mixed in. That's the only way I see it going down. But you know what? If they follow that plan, this could be an AMAZING match. Like I said in an earlier post I just hope Punker works extra stiff this match to add credibility. Thats how Jericho, Eddie, and Benoit always seemed believable even against huge opponents. You could hear that smack of flesh when they were throwing punches.


Good lord so much of this misses the point of what I meant. Ugh.



> What were your thoughts on the match, btw?


If I were to use star ratings, it would be the "full five". That's all I can add to what I've said about the match in both the Puro non spoilers thread & MOTYC thread.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Edit- does anyone know of a good Benoit vs Lesnar match? I just got both guys DVD sets so I've been watching a ton of their matches, and I really wanna see one of them against each other. :mark:







Watch and enjoy a classic! Starts around 32 minute mark.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember watching that Benoit/Lesnar match as a kid and being SO PISSED at the finish. :lol Looking back on it, the fucking Brock Lock was :mark:

Oh, and that Orton vs. RVD match from SD was a lot of fun. I wish those two could work together at SummerSlam, considering they kind of have a feud going on at the moment.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Watch and enjoy a classic! Starts around 32 minute mark.


Oh man you're my hero thank you. I'm watching that as soon as this IronMan is over.

And Hayley, I'm not sure what your point was. You said that CM Punk could wrestle a match similar to the ones Eddie wrestled with Brock and that it would be believable. The Eddie matches really weren't that one sided, especially NWO when Eddie won the title. That match was probably 65% Brock 35% Eddie. For a Punk match to seem realistic and not involve a Gimmick, I'd like to see it in the hbk taker HIAC style where it's 80% Brock and 20% Punk. I'm sorry if I misunderstood you that's what it appeared you were saying.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My point was clear on how anyone vs Brock is fighting from behind. Eddie was only used b/c "he's small in size too" but theoretically I could have named anyone and it would have fit. Kane, for example, would fight from behind. That's the essence of Brock Lesnar's legitimacy. However, that doesn't mean suspended belief can't be incorporated without the use of weapons. It can. That's pro wrestling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

never understood why people cared about size and a guys to small to be believable or maybe its just me as my favorites are all smaller guys except henning in hbk/flair/rey/ziggler/punk etc. If the match is great who cares, I love the David/Goliath type matches as well

Angle/Austin is awesome, HEEL Austin was surpb in it, rivals the like of eddie vs rey 6/05 as heel performances go. Angle was tolerable. No need in writing a mass review as EVERYBODY has seen in ( come on TLK :lol) and raves about it so yea


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> God damn someone said Angle was better than Dustin and it only took 12 posts. Arsewipe.


Where? Is it like a poll or something? I would actually be shocked if Dustin wound up winning something like that on this site.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching RVD/Orton from Smackdown. Another solid match for Orton to add to his recent streak of quality work in the summer. ★★★¼.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Watch and enjoy a classic! Starts around 32 minute mark.


Wow what an excellent match thank you for posting that. The ending wasn't the best but I can't complain that was a fucking nasty looking submission hold, anybody have any idea what the fuck that thing is called? I've never seen something like that before. Excellent, excellent match by Benoit and Lesnar, I'm glad I got to see that. I wish more wrestlers were as intense in the ring as Benoit was. You never notice size difference with him because his work is so stiff and he just presents himself as a total ass kicker. Lesnar is a great opponent for him, as I'm sure he will be for Punk as well I'm sure.

Again, thanks man.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Stretch Muffler/Brock Lock

Benoit is in my opinion the greatest wrestler of all time. Unless he's facing Big Show or somebody of that size, I never see him as "too small" or an underdog.

Smackdown 2003 is full of these awesome matches. If you haven't seen Angle vs Taker from September 4, check that out as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Stretch Muffler/Brock Lock
> 
> *Benoit is in my opinion the greatest wrestler of all time. *Unless he's facing Big Show or somebody of that size, I never see him as "too small" or an underdog.
> 
> Smackdown 2003 is full of these awesome matches. If you haven't seen Angle vs Taker from September 4, check that out as well.


You won't get any argument out of me there. I'd say HBK was probably the best PREFORMER in the history of the WWE, tho there probably has never been a better technical wrestler than Benoit. Going through his DVD set has just reinforced that opinion. It's a shame in the "WWE" Universe he doesn't exist anymore. Benoit's matches with Eddie Guerrero rank as some of my favorite ever, and I've truly never seen a flat out dud Benoit match. He could have had one I've just not seen it in the 75-100 Benoit matches I've watched. The dude just seemed to have chemistry with everyone.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah. It's all fair, i'm just a bit surprised that's all. Thought it was a great display from both under a sub-11 minute span where Zayn got to establish his babyface in peril work & Cesaro's uber-fascinating aggressive streak/domination periods. A new wrinkle in the series for these two, who have had some classics prior to WWE imo. They've already adapted to the WWE style so well. And Zayn has only been signed since this year. Tbhayley, I'm not surprised. :mark:


I'm really impressed with Zayn tbh. I did not expect him to adapt to the WWE style well at all. Cesaro was no surprise but Generico? Wow, I'm impressed. I just hope he doesn't do that stupid thing though where someone is working over his leg and he's selling it by hoping on the other. Nothing wrong with that but it gets ridiculous when he's able to suplex someone using just one leg. Looks unbelievable and is very disresepctful of him to do it to a bigger opponent, which in his case is damn near everyone he faces. That's one of my gripes with Generico.

But so far, I'm liking his work. At first i thought he looked generic (no pun intended) but I'm warmed up to him. He's going to be a great addition to the show, no doubt.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Other awesome matches to check out from Smackdown in 2003 are Kidman & Mysterio vs TWGTT on Smackdown 8/12/03 along with the Triple Threat match between Rey Mysterio, Tajiri, and Jamie Noble on Smackdown 3/6/03. Lesnar vs Show from Smackdown 6/12/03 is also a blast to watch with the ring collapsing. 

As for Benoit vs Lesnar, ★★★★1/4 for it. The debut of the BROCK LOCK. Such a shame we never got to see a feud between them over the WWE title.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

ATF said:


> Am I the only one who's more excited for Cena/Bryan than Punk/Lesnar?
> 
> :cena4 :bryan


A better question is, am I the only who's not really excited for Punk/Lesnar. I'm really not. I mean, the builds been good but Cena/Bryan is the shit right now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> A better question is, am I the only who's not really excited for Punk/Lesnar. I'm really not. I mean, the builds been good but Cena/Bryan is the shit right now.


You know it IS possible to be excited for two different matches at the same time, right. 

That said, if I had to choose to see only one of those matches, it would be Cena vs Bryan all day. So pumped Bryan is finally getting his time to shine, and I legitimately have no idea who is gonna win, so that adds even more to it. History says Cena always wins so Cena will win at SummerSlam. But Bryan has been on fire lately and this seems like the perfect time to give him the ball and see what he can do with it. Ether option seems plausible at this point, atleast to me. I'd love to hear other people's thoughts.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm really impressed with Zayn tbh. I did not expect him to adapt to the WWE style well at all. Cesaro was no surprise but Generico? Wow, I'm impressed. I just hope he doesn't do that stupid thing though where someone is working over his leg and he's selling it by hoping on the other. Nothing wrong with that but it gets ridiculous when he's able to suplex someone using just one leg. Looks unbelievable and is very disresepctful of him to do it to a bigger opponent, which in his case is damn near everyone he faces. That's one of my gripes with Generico.
> 
> But so far, I'm liking his work. At first i thought he looked generic (no pun intended) but I'm warmed up to him. He's going to be a great addition to the show, no doubt.


Not really disrespectful once the selling is actually happening. What's Generico supposed to do, sell and never hit any offense? It's a counterproductive assessment. More often than not it's Generico's underdog ultra babyface tactics that make his comebacks enthralling enough to not even look at said section of a match as a negative - glaring or minor.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Not really disrespectful once the selling is actually happening. What's Generico supposed to do, sell and never hit any offense? It's a counterproductive assessment. More often than not it's Generico's underdog ultra babyface tactics that make his comebacks enthralling enough to not even look at said section of a match as a negative - glaring or minor.


Very true. One thing I think I should made clear about me (although I thought it was pretty obvious the moment I became a regular poster here) is that I often tend to criticize the littlest things. That's just me, or at least when it comes to pro wrestling. In the grander scheme of things, it doesn't hurt the match but it's just that little thing I don't like. Doesn't ruin the match for me, but hey, I'll bring it up if I get the chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why I suppose every match isn't "perfect" in the grand scheme of things. I don't let too many little things bother me. I know for a fact that there is a match I love and it isn't exactly the prettiest around, but it has a great story behind it and it really created something special. For me personally.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> That's why I suppose every match isn't "perfect" in the grand scheme of things. I don't let too many little things bother me. I know for a fact that there is a match I love and it isn't exactly the prettiest around, but it has a great story behind it and it really created something special. For me personally.


Yeah, there really is not such things as the perfect match. There's always that one little thing that kinda throws you off. But for the most part, I'm willing to forgive it. I'll be quite honest, Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker WM 25 is one of my all favourites but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't a little too over reliant on finisher kickouts. Still, every time I look at it, I can' help but not remember the goosebumps that night. Heck, the only reason I call it a finisher fest today is because I've seen it 1000 times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But it kind of isn't though. Yeah they emphasize hitting their go home moves in the latter half of the match, but it's all calculated to be a bigger moment than the last that it's hardly a drawback. It goes from being this hot, to hotter, to even hotter, to molten over the course of the 30 minute span. WrestleMania is a great location for those two WWE legends to let it all hang out like that. Fans bought into it attending & watching at home. That's a match that just worked, tbhayley. 

I get your point, but I think a better one would be something like Triple H vs John Cena from Night of Champions 2008. The whole match felt like they were only trying to hit their finishers and it came off so dry. Or if I wanted to be a real masochist, Cena vs Rock from WrestleMania 29. That one didn't even feel like they were trying until the brief callback was done towards the end.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A hot girl on my fb has been posting about smackdown, daniel bryan and summerslam for the better par of the last 20 mins. There are hot wrestling fans that exist ?

It is possible to look forward to punk/lesnar and cena/bryan you dont have to pick just one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm into the bulk of the PPV so far, tbhayley.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> But it kind of isn't though. *Yeah they emphasize hitting their go home moves in the latter half of the match, but it's all calculated to be a bigger moment than the last that it's hardly a drawback. It goes from being this hot, to hotter, to even hotter, to molten over the course of the 30 minute span. WrestleMania is a great location for those two WWE legends to let it all hang out like that. Fans bought into it attending & watching at home. That's a match that just worked, [\b]tbhayley.
> 
> I get your point, but I think a better one would be something like Triple H vs John Cena from Night of Champions 2008. The whole match felt like they were only trying to hit their finishers and it came off so dry. Or if I wanted to be a real masochist, Cena vs Rock from WrestleMania 29. That one didn't even feel like they were trying until the brief callback was done towards the end.*


*

Very, very well said. I hate when people call WM25 HBK vs Taker a "finisher fest" because it was so so much more than that. I can't really explain it. I stopped watching wrestling from about 2002-2009, but when I heard HBK and Taker were gonna face each other at WM, and HiAC has always been my second favorite match behind Austin and Bret, I knew I had to see it. So I watched it in my friends dorm and I remember being so bored at the start of the show and thinking "glad I don't watch wrestling anymore". Then HBK vs Taker happened. I literally felt like my stomach was in my throat the whole time. My goosebumps had goosebumps. It just blew me away to the point that I had to start watching wrestling again. First just DVDs from the 90s and early 00s but eventually I started watching Raw and Smackdown again. This is a 100% true story, I probably never would have started watching wrestling again if it wasn't for that match. I've seen it 10 times and it still doesn't get old because I remember how I felt when I first watched it. Watching an amazing or transcendent wrestling match gives you a feeling that no other sport, movie, or form of entertainment can give you. I maybe sounding a bit to serious because really it is just something to watch that entertains people, but nothing can suck me in and make me forget how shitty real life is sometimes like a classic wrestling match.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's passion there. I can more than understand that. I think that's why we're all here in the first place, a passion for wrestling. Watching it live on PPV idk if any match earned a reaction like that from me. Not counting their rematch come 26, b/c that one did as well. But wow, how much Undertaker vs Michaels sucked me in at WM 25 was absurd. Palms were sweaty, I wasn't sitting down once things hit that ultimate fever pitch, I was getting the knives ready to end things if Undertaker lost, the whole nine yards. That was a blast of an experience. I can only imagine what it was like to actually see it in person.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I wish I could have been there to witness it live myself. I'll be honest, for a while I called it not only my #1 favourite match but WWE's GOAT match. I'm not so sure if I'll call it that to this day as I've seen a LOT of matches since but by God is a match I'll cherish forever. 

Moving on to Summerslam, this card has a lot of potential. The match that I'm really pumped up for is Cena/Bryan followed by Punk/Lesnar. Del Rio/Christian has potential but does anyone know why WWE gave us the match for free on SD? Rhodes/Sandow should be a decent affair and hopefully both men come out looking like stars and the match elevates the two not just one. Kane/Wyatt should be fun just from the "holy shit, it's an inferno (uhh...I mean... ring of fire!) match" This has potential to be one of the best Summerslams of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If the prospected Shield match gets added too, that's going to up the potential in strong quality. Hoping it still will. Dying to see it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Del Rio vs. Christian is a dark horse for me for SummerSlam. They have good chemistry together and they had a really solid match tonight without even pulling out all the stops. If they get a good amount of time, I really think they could light it up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. I can't see it being bad. Only hoping they try and add some new elements into their match b/c they've duked it out a decent number of times prior. Now that they're finally on PPV vs each other without a gimmick in the mix, I'd love to see them add a new wrinkle.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Woolcock, thanks for the backstory on the storyline of the Japanese wrestlers. That does help put the match & their motives into context. I'd always been curious if you guys followed the backstories when it came to Japenese wrestling, or if you just went in blind.

I don't have a problem with the stiff style, and in fact, like it. Feels like more of a real sporting event to me, and that's right up my alley. Funny that you mention 90s NJPW. Of the bit of Japenese wrestling that I've seen, that was what I watched. I liked it, but it became a matter of time constraints, really. I had to go with what I was already invested in.

Anyway, I actually thought that the selling was ok in this, except for the bit at the end. However, as someone pointed out in one of the other threads that HayleySabin mentioned, the fact that the pudgy guy (sorry can't look up spelling right now) made his comeback in a quick burst, rather than in a prolonged way, made it a bit more palatable. It could be sold as he gave everything he had, with his last breath left.

I did like quite a few things about the match, which is why I said that it was enjoyable. Loved the way it opened, and loved them each beckoning each other to give them their best shot. Understanding the backstory now, adds a new layer to the match. This is why I always say that it can be harder to fully appreciate things when you're viewing them in retrospect, without a lot of context.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Bret Hart vs British Bulldog from SummerSlam 1992. Not quite the classic it's described to be by many but definitely a blast to watch and 25 minutes went by faster than matches of this length go. ★★★★.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Glad you liked it. It was moreso the environment and circumstances that contributed to it feeling like a classic. I mentioned before that as a kid, that's the match that got me back to thinking that wrestling was totally real. Felt very real to me.

As an actual match, though, I think that their In Your House '95 match is better. It's also an entirely different match with an entirely different vibe too.

Here's the link, if you ever get the chance to watch it:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/Cl0U5jGH4Xg/


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll have it on a list for the future. Have been watching Bret's first DVD "Best There is, Best There Was..." and the SS match was on it so I figured I'll give it a watch in between the documentary. It's also great that this DVD includes his match with Benoit. Although it's laughable that his entrance is edited to his WWE theme.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

his wwe theme is GOAT, to be fair


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still what is pretty much the best carry-job ever seen right there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, one thing that was on my mind throughout watching it was how Bret completely carried it.



obby said:


> his wwe theme is GOAT, to be fair


All his themes kick ass. The WCW one, the Radicalz and both his WWE themes, specially "Whatever".


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just way too boring for me, I try so hard to get into it but I cant. Their iyh 95 on the other hand is a beauty


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit's WCW theme was terrible. Vintage generic WCW stuff. Lex Luger's was the best on that topic. Even funnier when the crowd went nuts for him while this ultra vanilla theme was blaring over the PA system. The little things that can humor you.

My brother is the same way, skins. I don't mind it, but I can see it. Season's Beatings match is excellent.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Have been watching Bret's first DVD "Best There is, Best There Was..." and the SS match was on it so I figured I'll give it a watch in between the documentary.
> 
> It's also great that this DVD includes his match with Benoit. Although it's laughable that his entrance is edited to his WWE theme.


To paraphrase you, "even I haven't see that!"

Don't know if you're skipping around or watching the actual matches or not, but if you're watching the matches, the ones I'd recommend on there that you haven't see are:

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi at IYH1
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog at IYH V
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker at ONO (Sorry HayleySabin)
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect at KoTR '93 & SS91 (I prefer KoTR if you're gonna watch one)

All the others you've either seen, or are kind of "whatever" for a non big Hart fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least you apologized in advance. :hayley1

The Owen Hart match from Action Zone is phenomenal. So is the Diesel match. And then there are those two tag team matches from the 80's. LOVE the Killer Bees one. I picked a good day to wear my Bret Hart shirt. Might as well watch some matches.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> At least you apologized in advance. :hayley1
> 
> The Owen Hart match from Action Zone is phenomenal. *So is the Diesel match.* And then there are those two tag team matches from the 80's. LOVE the Killer Bees one. I picked a good day to wear my Bret Hart shirt. Might as well watch some matches.




Yeah, that's one of the best matches of Bret's career, but C2D has seen that one before.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> All his themes kick ass. The WCW one, the Radicalz and both his WWE themes, specially "Whatever".


Yup. "whatever" is one of the few wrestling themes I have on my ipod.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret Hart discussion incoming uh ? fuck him :hbk2 jk

The diesel matches are a thing of beauty as well, I have no problem saying Bret got more out of Big Sexy than Shawn, loved svs 95. I just found my "Best There is, Best the was " DVD so I may pop it in

Hes got a nice match with naitch in the souled out


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, that's one of the best matches of Bret's career, but C2D has seen that one before.


(Y)

Great, gritty stuff. I knew it was good, but when I got the set last year I was still blown away by how good it was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm planning to go through the whole thing at some point. Over one hour past the documentary part in the first disc now.

As for the matches, I've already seen ONO with Taker (prefer SummerSlam) and I'm planning to go through as much BRET stuff as possible whenever I am in the mood.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/22/director-hired-for-chris-benoit-movie

how did I not know about this until now? Damn.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Never seen ONO in my life, seen summerslam though


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> The diesel matches are a thing of beauty as well, I have no problem saying Bret got more out of Big Sexy than Shawn, loved svs 95. I just found my "Best There is, Best the was " DVD so I may pop it in
> 
> Hes got a nice match with naitch in the souled out


How do you non-Bret fans have something I don't? lol. Guess I'm a bad fan.

Yes, I'd definitely recommend that match. Certainly their best match together, IMO.



HayleySabin said:


> Great, gritty stuff. I knew it was good, but when I got the set last year I was still blown away by how good it was.


You're right, it totally holds up, IMO. 



Choke2Death said:


> As for the matches, I've already seen ONO with Taker (prefer SummerSlam) and I'm planning to go through as much BRET stuff as possible whenever I am in the mood.


Really? The preference for SS seems to be a prevailing thought here. I don't get it.  That one was more boring to me. I guess the atmospherics and the Shawn factor helped. 

ETA: Elsewhere, ONO is much more recommended. Or so I found out through Google. That's how I even heard about the match in the first place.



redskins25 said:


> Never seen ONO in my life, seen summerslam though


I've told you before that ONO is much more your style. Much more back and forth interaction. The link is in the Bret thread, if you can't find the DVD.

Watching the Del Rio/Bryan match you posted now.




obby said:


> http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/07/22/director-hired-for-chris-benoit-movie
> 
> how did I not know about this until now? Damn.


Doesn't surprise me. It had movie written all over it, right after it happened. WWE will go into PR control mode again...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll just stick with Chris Benoit matches. The non-lifeless ones.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea kinda dont want to watch, didnt hate summerslam as much as Cody, I saw it a couple months ago, my main problem was that was about 35-40 mins long, is ONO too ?

Watching the bret/owen action zone atm so far better than wm X


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, that's one of the best matches of Bret's career, but C2D has seen that one before.


The Survivor Series one? Yeah, pretty good match and another Bret carry-job. He may work his way into becoming one of my favorites as I see more of his great work.



LilOlMe said:


> How do you non-Bret fans have something I don't? lol. Guess I'm a bad fan.
> 
> Yes, I'd definitely recommend that much. Certainly their best match together, IMO.


If you count downloading it, then yeah, I have it. 

And Flair/Bret sounds like an interesting match-up but I'm not sure about it because some of you say their matches are boring together.



> Really? The preference for SS seems to be a prevailing thought here. I don't get it.  That one was more boring to me. I guess the atmospherics and the Shawn factor helped.


It's been a while, so like many other stuff, a rewatch can change my opinion. But yeah, the SS match had more life to it with Shawn in there.



HayleySabin said:


> I'll just stick with Chris Benoit matches. The non-lifeless ones.


Same. I was interested in the movie but no way do I want to see the tragedy played out.



> Yup. "whatever" is one of the few wrestling themes I have on my ipod.


I have that one and both of Cena's themes in mine. Also used to have Orton's old one but not anymore.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

indeed

I imagine it would be extremely hard to watch.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ yea kinda dont want to watch, didnt hate summerslam as much as Cody, I saw it a couple months ago, my main problem was that was about 35-40 mins long, is ONO too ?
> 
> Watching the bret/owen action zone atm so far better than wm X


It's about 30 minutes. The hot crowd was part of the excitement.

Wasn't that crazy about that one, tbh. It felt like too much of a retread of their WMX match, for me. It was basically that, but shorter, from what I remember. Maybe that's why you like it, lol.



Choke2Death said:


> The Survivor Series one? Yeah, pretty good match and another Bret carry-job. He may work his way into becoming one of my favorites as I see more of his great work.
> 
> And Flair/Bret sounds like an interesting match-up but I'm not sure about it because some of you say their matches are boring together.


Yep! And good.

That's why 'skins and I liked it so much. Neither of us are fans of their other matches, but that one stands out as quite good.



> Same. I was interested in the movie but no way do I want to see the tragedy played out.


Ohhh, so that's what HayleySabin was referring to. I thought it was a shot at Bret, lol. I was like "wow, that was a fast change in mood." :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

What aren't they making MENG the movie?


Might start watching 2010 stuff in a few days. I d/l the Rumble show tonight, at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MENG the movie can talk about Benoit considering they duked it out in some radical matches circa 1997. It works out for everybody.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When did Chris Benoit have a lifeless match? When did Chris Benoit have a bad match for that matter? This is all news to me :aries2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Dean Malenko. vs Eddie a few times. Some in ECW. a lot vs Booker T.

Not hard to find the shit. 

oh and easily vs Bret in 1999 on Nitro. Moves with no life behind it whatsoever. I can't watch that match anymore.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The only bad Benoit match I've seen is vs The Giant in WCW when he lost to a dropkick in 10 seconds. That injustice would be corrected in 2001 when Benoit made Big Show submit in 5 minutes as well as the 2004 Royal Rumble!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot to add in some of the matches vs Porter circa 2007 too. Those aren't very good, but that's only b/c Porter was lousy. Benoit tried. It worked at WM. I do love that one a lot.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit just like Orton are two ppl I have never see. Most of not all their matches, the latter not so much as the list and I've seen most post 2011 orton


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You've just killed C2D with that post.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Did Benoit ever go one on one with Kennedy? I know Kennedy ain't the best in the ring but I feel like that could have been good.

Did he ever have one with Gregory Helms, either?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So I'm done with the first disc of Bret's DVD now. They completely skipped the Undertaker feud which sucks but I guess Taker simply never appears out of character. That was also a funny moment when Bret got speared by Goldberg but was protected by steel plate under his shirt. :lmao

*Brye*: Benoit faced Kennedy three times. The first time he won his last US Championship on Smackdown from 13/10/06. They had two other matches in January 07 on SD, one was way too short but the other went for like 20 minutes and might be their best. They are all worth a watch. (except maybe the 5 minute one)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye check this one out. I don't recall the match very well, but the fact Benoit returned and got the strap was a pretty sweet moment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks guys. 

Gonna watch right now. (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I should probably do the same. Remember nothing about it except for the finish. That was a fun week. No Mercy 2006. That's a booming show. Talked about this last night. Worth it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol not even kidding I've only seen wm 20 three way, the backlash rematch, jd with Finlay and hbk 5/04 and that is about it haha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crazy thing is, that's all you could see from him and know he was excellent in his career for the majority.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> :lol not even kidding I've only seen wm 20 three way, the backlash rematch, jd with Finlay and hbk 5/04 and that is about it haha


How is this even possible? This is the GOAT we are talking about here.

:lmao at that Bret/Goldberg segment. Also confirmed that WCW piped in Goldberg chants regularly like Kevin Nash once said. I think they used to pipe in Hogan chants too according to Flair.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For taped shows, yeah. Still never believe the live events b/c it's live.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Kennedy/Benoit was a decent match. Benoit got in a shit ton of offense for the first half, then we got some shoulder/arm work from Kennedy. Then the Taker appearance distracted Kennedy and Benoit goes hard with the german suplexes and gets the crossface in. I thought it played to Kennedy's character well and having such high stakes (the US title/Kennedy possibly going to Raw) helped. Also, great commentary. Actually focused on the match and the two guys in the ring. It's amazing how much commentary can effect how I enjoy a match. Nothing outstanding but a very watchable match, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sound about what you'd expect from Kennedy at his peak in WWE with a top flight opponent. Kennedy has never been a good worker in any portion of his career. Matches with him worth being seen like almost never happened. However, if someone made the matches a decent watch, that's just about as strong as an accomplishment.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are the Kennedy/Undertaker matches worth a watch? Cal seems to always promote them, but Cal probably promotes Undertaker/Giant Gonzales as well, so I need some second opinions.

Why did I just watch Punk/HHH vs. Awesome Truth? Good god this was not the good match that I thought it was; this just sucked. Three horrible "talents" further killing the momentum of the best. LOL at that terrible ending involving Kevin Nash along with Punk losing four PPVs in a row during the peak of his popularity.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I like Kennedy/Taker from No Mercy and I recall liking the Armageddon one. Don't think I've seen the Survivor Series one.

I liked one of the Kennedy/HBK matches from late '07 too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only one I'd say that is worth watching was the First Blood from Survivor Series.

The losing streak is exactly why once Survivor Series 2011 came around and Punk actually won the championship I couldn't believe it. He loses everything only to randomly win the gold out of nowhere and hold it longer than a LOT of previous reigns. 2011 was a bit of a mess.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, I really hated that Punk/Triple H/Nash stuff. Was so damn random and wasted a lot of Punk's momentum. I know there were problems where Nash couldn't wrestle in September, but I still think Punk/Nash was a terrible idea itself.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Makes you think if that still would have main evented Night of Champions too. Yikes. Maybe it could have been a decent little match, but nothing main event worthy. Certainly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> vs Dean Malenko. vs Eddie a few times. Some in ECW. a lot vs Booker T.
> 
> Not hard to find the shit.
> 
> oh and easily vs Bret in 1999 on Nitro. Moves with no life behind it whatsoever. I can't watch that match anymore.


You forgot about a certain _rumble_ in Boston. :kurt


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You know what's funny, the matches vs Angle literally didn't pop into my head. It's like my brain knew everyone dislikes most so it was a foregone conclusion and not worth mentioning. However, true facts. Rumble match can join the pile. The lot of their matches can, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As someone who already watched every single of their matches (because of that SD Six project I had), my consensus of Angle/Benoit is not really good AT ALL:

- Their first three matches on TV in 2000 weren't a crapfest - as a matter of fact, the first of the bunch was actually not all bad. Most of those did end on a double DQ/countout though. Of course, the stinker of the bunch had to be the Intercontinental Title match they had before WM 16. Good, that was Angle/Benoit action in 5 minutes. I counted a total of 12 SUPLEXES in 5 MINUTES.

- Their 1st PPV match was Insurrextion 2000, which followed typical formula of theirs - starts off well, starts going downhill, by the end it sucks. Interesting psychology to start, with Angle working over Benoit's eye... instead of Benoit's INJURED KNEE, whom at the end of the match he decides to ignore with a bridge pin.

- Afterwards you had WM 17, which was one that ALMOST reached the suck levels thanks to their ending shenanigans, but they tried not to since they didn't completely follow those, thank Goodness. I applauded them for that. Plus, the interesting formula of Angle frustation turned a technical contest into a pure fight was pretty cool.

- Backlash 2001 was the Ultimate Submission match. 30 minutes of Angle and Benoit. UGH. Well, the 1st 10 minutes were EXCELLENT, to be completely honest. Then, the next 20 minutes? I almost fell asleep.

- Insurrextion 2001 was 2 Out Of 3 Falls, and exactly what I expected. 1st fall is good, 2nd is meh, 3rd sucks.

- Then we have the only match that truly fits the caliber of both men: the Judgment Day 2001 2 Out Of 3 Falls. Angle's psychology was actually not bad (save for a few moments), they worked well the technical aspect of the fight with the physical, personal elements, they actually STRUGGLED to hit Germans instead of just trading them for the sake of it, the 1st fall was Benoit literally adding insult to injury to Angle's viciousness because of him wanting his gold medals back - thus, great storytelling - and the Ladder match was pretty violent. Awesome match and easily their best one ever.

- And from an awesome fest, you get a DUD. Oh yeah, the Steel Cage match on Raw 6/11/2001. Germans after Germans after huge spots after no selling. Talk about going Davey Richards before going Davey Richards was uncool.

- They wouldn't meet again until 2002, more especifically Unforgiven 2002. This one was intriguing to say the least. It worked their typical bullshit aspects, but at the same time, it didn't JUST work off of flash and sizzle, but it had circumstance too. The storytelling of Angle and Benoit trying to outsmart each other in every way was cool since both were heels at the time.

- They met again three times on Smackdown in 2002. The 10/24 one was, again, pretty ok for what it was. A drastically shorter version of Unforgiven, which is probably the best thing they could've worked off of at the time. The 11/14 one was, again, similar to the previous one, but only shorter. And the 12/19 one was kinda like Royal Rumble and Unforgiven mixed. Just meh for my likings.

- And then, my oh my. Germans after Germans after Germans after submissions after ridiculous submission no-selling counters after... you get what I'm going with it. I wouldn't be shocked if it was an absolute blast to watch live (especially after HHH/Steiner), but as far as I'm concerned, going from THAT to THIS is not Heaven. At all. Jesus Christ this was horrendous. And started to promising...

- And to cape it off, their last match on 2/6/2003 was too bleh. Royal Rumble shortened to say the least.

So there you go, if you're looking for The Definitive Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit Guide, look no further than this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> vs Dean Malenko. vs Eddie a few times. Some in ECW. a lot vs Booker T.
> 
> Not hard to find the shit.
> 
> oh and easily vs Bret in 1999 on Nitro. Moves with no life behind it whatsoever. I can't watch that match anymore.


You talking about the Owen tribute match? As i'm sure they had another in '99 too on Nitro (or was that in '98)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Where? Is it like a poll or something? I would actually be shocked if Dustin wound up winning something like that on this site.


Was a Rhodes Family poll ranking the best worker in the family. Some bloke talked about a Dustin match on the back of a truck in early WCW and how it demonstrated he wasn't a good worker, then said someone like Angle in the same match would have produced a far better match. I gave up tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've been through the internet for a while and I've passed through a lot of pure wrestling vs. storytelling discussions. There was a pair of matches that really interested me, because they were the pinnacle of what those two mean.

So, to start a new discussion here: Savage/Warrior at WM 7 or Perfect/Bret SSlam 1991?

Gotta be the first to me. Perfect/Bret was pretty much flawless wrestling, yes. Even more impressive when you consider that Perfect had a serious back injury at the time. But I honestly prefer a great story AND match much better. Don't get me wrong, Perfect/Bret did tell a very good story, but there's NOTHING that compares to Savage/Warrior in terms of storytelling as far as the 1st 10 WM's go. Not even Savage/Steamboat or Flair/Savage. Imo at least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hart/Perfect for me. It amazes me that Perfect was even able to walk, let alone wrestle. Warrior was absolute shit.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just witnessed the complete greatness that was Alberto Del Rio Vs Dolph Ziggler, and DEAR FUCKING JESUS was it amazing. I can't stand Del Rio most of the time, but to have one match completely make somebody for me is insane and Del Rio as a heel won me over there big time. The slow burning of the double turn makes it all the more magnificent for me, but one of the highlights would have to be Del Rio's BRUTAL kicks and Dolph's amazing selling of them. That last kick to the head on the outside was completely insane and it actually made my jaw drop, something that never ever fucking happens anymore.

Dolph trying to pull himself up with the referee and other various things are really what makes this match tick. It's such a character driven match where if the performances don't deliver, then the match fails as a result. It's not flashy, but a gritty, down and dirty set of performances that had me fucking going crazy the entire time. Del Rio's vicious onslaught though, I mean holy fucking shit. 

If we're talking 2013 MOTY, it's right up there with Punk/Cena & Punk/Taker. We've got ourselves a RACE people (I still need to see Regal/Ohno though. That one could be up there with the masses). Punk-Jericho is up next, and I wouldn't be surprised if I thought it was complete shit compared to what I just saw, I'm at a loss for words really.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Join the party

I like warrior/savage it's good but I"d have to go with Bret/Perfect just because I love henning, breaks my heart his son is so generic but whatevs


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Downloaded ECW Unreleased Vol 1. Gonna start it now. Wish I found a Blu Ray version though, it has the 60 minute three way dance on it. I've been searching years for that match and can't find it. Would love to see what's all the hype about the match that put ECW on the map.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I've been through the internet for a while and I've passed through a lot of pure wrestling vs. storytelling discussions. There was a pair of matches that really interested me, because they were the pinnacle of what those two mean.
> 
> So, to start a new discussion here: Savage/Warrior at WM 7 or Perfect/Bret SSlam 1991?
> 
> Gotta be the first to me. Perfect/Bret was pretty much flawless wrestling, yes. Even more impressive when you consider that Perfect had a serious back injury at the time. But I honestly prefer a great story AND match much better. Don't get me wrong, Perfect/Bret did tell a very good story, but there's NOTHING that compares to Savage/Warrior in terms of storytelling as far as the 1st 10 WM's go. Not even Savage/Steamboat or Flair/Savage. Imo at least.


I'll answer you're question with a list,

MY TOP 10 FAVORITE WRESTLEMANIA MATCHES

1. Austin vs Bret @WM13
2. HBK vs Taker @WM25
3. HBK vs HHH vs Benoit @ WM20
4. Bret vs Owen @ WM10
5. Warrior vs Macho King @ WM8
6. HBK vs Taker @WM26
7. Rock vs Austin @ WM17
8. HBK vs Razor @ WM10
9. HBK vs Jericho @ WM19
10. HBK vs Angle @ WM21



So yea, I'm a big BIG fan of warrior vs macho king, that match is a 5 star classic to me. I love the Perfect vs Hitman match equally. I really couldn't choose just one thats like choosing which one of my dogs I like more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Downloaded ECW Unreleased Vol 1. Gonna start it now. Wish I found a Blu Ray version though, it has the 60 minute three way dance on it. I've been searching years for that match and can't find it. Would love to see what's all the hype about the match that put ECW on the map.


From what i have read, alot of people seem to shit on that match, including Douglas himself by all accounts. 

Never seen it myself though as i only own the DVD.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I'll answer you're question with a list,
> 
> MY TOP 10 FAVORITE WRESTLEMANIA MATCHES
> 
> ...


Savage/Warrior is one of the greatest masterpieces ever in WWE history. That match SHOULD have ME'd that show.

HBK has definitely one of the better runs ever at WM. I'd rank his WM stuff like this:

Taker I > Taker II > HHH/Benoit > Austin _(love it to fucking death myself)_ > Angle > Jericho > Razor > Cena > Flair > Orient Express > Twin Towers > Vince > Power & Glory > Diesel > Tatanka > Bret > Santana.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Savage/Warrior is one of the greatest masterpieces ever in WWE history. That match SHOULD have ME'd that show.
> 
> HBK has definitely one of the better runs ever at WM. I'd rank his WM stuff like this:
> 
> Taker I > Taker II > HHH/Benoit > Austin _(love it to fucking death myself)_ > Angle > Jericho > Razor > Cena > Flair > Orient Express > Twin Towers > Vince > Power & Glory > Diesel > Tatanka > Bret > Santana.



I don't really disagree myself, choosing the order for the best HbK matches at Mania is almost impossible after the obvious Taker vs HbK WM25 being first. After that match, his next 5-7 best matches really can go in any order as far as I'm concerned, it's just personal preference that makes me put them I'm the order I did. His WM26 match MIT be better than WM20, but I love that triple threat so much it's a tie in my book. I personally LOVE his match with Jericho and the story it told, that's why I rank it better than his match with Angle even though that one probably had more dramatic moments.

Anyway you look at it, HBK has the best WrestleMania career ever and that's including the Undertaker. Shawn has had the best match at just about every wrestlemania he's been a part of since 1994, excluding only a couple of cases (like the ironman match, etc). That's remarkable. I'm a NBA nut, I watch more basketball than I do wrestling, and the only comparison I can make for Shawn is that he is the Michael Jordan of Wrestling. No one touches him when it comes to putting on masterpieces on the biggest stage.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

That guy would probably disagree with you.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I can only imagine what if we got Shawn vs Lesnar, Shawn vs Owen, Shawn vs Finlay or Shawn vs Foley at WM. Too much mark-out.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I would've said before this year's Mania HBK clearly had the better Mania resume, but now it's much closer with the inclusion of Taker/Punk. When it's all said and done and if the potential Taker/Cena and Taker/Lesnar matches live up to expectations, by then it'll clearly be Taker.

But that's only if that's the case. Right now though I can't put one clearly above the other. Both men's best Mania match (best match of all time as well), was against each other at WM25. Then you have WM29 Taker/Punk, then Taker/HBK WM26, then HBK/Jericho WM19 and Taker/Batista WM23 being almost the same I think. Then HBK has the triple threat at WM20, the Angle match at WM21, but then Taker has the matches with Edge and Orton. HBK/Razor is also up there, and so is the Cena match, but then you have Taker/Kane, Taker/HHH WM28, and Taker/Flair around there.

So yeah, right now I couldn't put one clearly above the other. I'd probably still give HBK the edge right now beause Taker still had a lot of shit match-ups early on and some of the worst Mania matches ever with Bossman and Giant Gonzales. The only shit HBK match I've seen is WM is the one with Vince (which is probably one of the most overrated matches ever imo), but even then it's not anywhere near as low as those two Taker matches I mentioned.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The few times Shawn took the F-5 they were my favorite sells of the move ever, no doubt in my mind that if Brock had to go toe to toe with a babyface like Shawn or Bret that they could have produced. Perhaps not on the level of a Benoit or a Guerrero of course, but I'm still talking MOTY quality stuff here.

I can't fucking wait for Brock/Punk.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I can only imagine what if we got Shawn vs Lesnar, Shawn vs Owen, Shawn vs Finlay or Shawn vs Foley at WM. Too much mark-out.


Hell yeah, 2003 heel Brock vs HBK :mark: I remember HBK superkicking Brock back on SD or Raw when Shawn was with the NWO i think.

I need to rewatch a couple of the Owen/HBK matches, didn't they have on at a IYH?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Lesnar circa 02 vs Shawn circa 05 would have been something. Seeing Lesnar throwing HBK around like a rag-doll and HBK bumping like a manic. The match match quality would have also been something.

Lesnar circa 03 vs Umaga circa 07 would have also rocked. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a shame Lesnar left in 2004. So many potential match-ups were ahead and he just left like that. I read everything he said in regards to this subject yesterday and after that, I blame WWE/Vince more so than Brock.

Just to name a few matches that would've ruled:
Brock/HBK
Brock/Orton in 05
Brock/HHH in 05-06
Brock/Batista


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> I would've said before this year's Mania HBK clearly had the better Mania resume, but now it's much closer with the inclusion of Taker/Punk. When it's all said and done and if the potential Taker/Cena and Taker/Lesnar matches live up to expectations, by then it'll clearly be Taker.
> 
> But that's only if that's the case. Right now though I can't put one clearly above the other. Both men's best Mania match (best match of all time as well), was against each other at WM25. Then you have WM29 Taker/Punk, then Taker/HBK WM26, then HBK/Jericho WM19 and Taker/Batista WM23 being almost the same I think. Then HBK has the triple threat at WM20, the Angle match at WM21, but then Taker has the matches with Edge and Orton. HBK/Razor is also up there, and so is the Cena match, but then you have Taker/Kane, Taker/HHH WM28, and Taker/Flair around there.
> 
> So yeah, right now I couldn't put one clearly above the other. I'd probably still give HBK the edge right now beause Taker still had a lot of shit match-ups early on and some of the worst Mania matches ever with Bossman and Giant Gonzales. The only shit HBK match I've seen is WM is the one with Vince (which is probably one of the most overrated matches ever imo), but even then it's not anywhere near as low as those two Taker matches I mentioned.


By the time Undertaker retires, as long as we are given the Cena and Brock matches, he might have a tie with HbK but it will be close. I'm just dying, and I mean DYING for Cena Taker or atleast Lesnar Taker at Mania30. I actually think Lesnar would give him the better match, but I've already seen a 4+ star classic from them at HiaC. I have not seen a classic from Cena and Taker, and them doing so at Mania30 would make my life complete. Atleast until I start thinking about the possibilities of a Daniel Bryan vs Taker match :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, the WWE pretty much grabs you by the balls and makes you go on the road for weeks on top of weeks on top of months with very little time off. They pretty much tried to ruin Brock's life after he was done with that shit, but to his credit he rose above and ended up with the upper hand as one of Vince's top guys (after Rock).

Fucking crazy how shit works out sometimes.

On a match related note, I thought that Bryan/Orton Vs Rollins/Reigns was actually pretty fucking good. Better than a good match in Punk/Jericho actually to be honest. Neither are AWESOME or GREAT, but they both service well as good pieces to add to a show.

Ryback Vs Cena is all I have left for this show. FUCK.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> By the time Undertaker retires, as long as we are given the Cena and Brock matches, he might have a tie with HbK but it will be close. I'm just dying, and I mean DYING for Cena Taker or atleast Lesnar Taker at Mania30. I actually think Lesnar would give him the better match, but I've already seen a 4+ star classic from them at HiaC. I have not seen a classic from Cena and Taker, and them doing so at Mania30 would make my life complete. Atleast until I start thinking about the possibilities of a Daniel Bryan vs Taker match :mark:


If Taker returns for WM30, surely it's either Cena or Brock. For me, it has to be Cena too IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> It's a shame Lesnar left in 2004. So many potential match-ups were ahead and he just left like that. I read everything he said in regards to this subject yesterday and after that, I blame WWE/Vince more so than Brock.


I read the entire book "death clutch" while my flight out of L.A was delayed. I'd have to agree with your statement, it's more on Vince for manipulating Brock and not giving him time away than it is on Brock. Some people can handle the road for years and years and others can't. Vince essentially burned Brock out, Vince decided he wasn't going to try and cater to his biggest stars needs and took the "I'm the boss you do what I say" stance and that caused Brock to want to walk. I don't blame Brock one iota for biurning out, I doubt many of us could handle to road WWE worked back then. Brock's especially close to his family and spending years away wasn't working for him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I read the entire book "death clutch" while my flight out of L.A was delayed. I'd have to agree with your statement, it's more on Vince for manipulating Brock and not giving him time away than it is on Brock. Some people can handle the road for years and years and others can't. Vince essentially burned Brock out, Vince decided he wasn't going to try and cater to his biggest stars needs and took the "I'm the boss you do what I say" stance and that caused Brock to want to walk. I don't blame Brock one iota for biurning out, I doubt many of us could handle to road WWE worked back then. Brock's especially close to his family and spending years away wasn't working for him.


Think Brock also said he wasn't happy at being 'shuffled down the card' and losing the title to Eddie, but yeah it was the road that finally made him say "fuck this".


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, let's see:

For Shawn:
*****: Taker I & II, HHH/Benoit
****1/2: Austin, Angle
****1/4: Jericho, Razor, Cena
****: Flair
***1/2: Orient Express, Twin Towers, Vince, Power & Glory
***1/4: Diesel, Tatanka, Bret
***: Santana

For Taker:
*****: Shawn I & II, HHH III
****1/2: Punk, Edge, Batista, HHH II
****1/4: Orton, HHH I, Kane I
****: Flair
***1/2: Diesel
**3/4: Show/A-Train
**1/2: Henry, Roberts
**: Snuka, Kane II
1/4*: Gonzales, Sid
DUD: Bossman, Bundy

Evenly, evenly matched in my books.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Well, the WWE pretty much grabs you by the balls and makes you go on the road for weeks on top of weeks on top of months with very little time off. They pretty much tried to ruin Brock's life after he was done with that shit, but to his credit he rose above and ended up with the upper hand as one of Vince's top guys (after Rock).
> 
> Fucking crazy how shit works out sometimes.


Yeah, Brock acted a little spoiled at times but for the most part, he was justified in his complaining. For instance, I don't see why he'd make such a big deal out of losing to The Rock in his hometown in a house show but I understand he was pissed that they didn't tell him about it until the match was about to start. I can also understand why he'd hate going all the way to South Africa only to get pulled out of the main event and wrestle Bob Holly in a five minute match. But most of all, I understand why he was angry about not getting time off or a lighter schedule.

Now he's gotten things his way and gets paid millions just to appear a handful of times and wrestle a couple of matches every year.



> I don't blame Brock one iota for biurning out, I doubt many of us could handle to road WWE worked back then. Brock's especially close to his family and spending years away wasn't working for him.


I'm not exactly a family guy so that would have never been an issue but there's no way I could've handled waking up early to catch a flight on most days of a week. The schedule is just way too heavy. I don't know if anywhere else they have to work so much.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

My prediction is that Brock sticks around for another few years after XXXI as well.

Actually, I'm thinking he ends up staying way longer than Rock & Taker to be honest. Him and HHH will probably end up being the only two part timers on the roster come XXXII, so maybe that's why they're trying to build Punk up as more of a living WWE legend and one of the greatest ever now?

I wouldn't doubt it that WWE is banking on Batista becoming a somewhat big movie star (seeing as how he's actually getting bigger roles now) so that once Taker & Rock go for good that he can market somebody else to the WWE audience. 

Livin' in the CENA & PART TIME FRIENDS ERA


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I wonder why Vince never gave Lesnar time off right after he lost against Angle at Summerslam 03. That would have been a good time for him to recuperate given the nagging injuries he was dealing with around that time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well, let's see:
> 
> For Shawn:
> *****: Taker I & II, HHH/Benoit
> ...


Bro I know everyone is entitled to their opinions but, ranking triple H 3 ***** and triple H 2 ****1/2 is a HUGE stretch in my book. Again it's all opinion but I think Punks match was better than both of those and I would only rank that ****1/4*. His match at Mania27 was almost downright boring to me, I can't give it over ***1/2*. The only reason it's that high is because I thought the selling and story telling was so good. The match at mania 28 was better but I would only give that ****. I did love triple h vs taker 1 though at mania17. I thought that was the best of the bunch.

That's the great thing about wrestling, everyone is gonna have their opinion. I'd like to hear why you thought so highly of those matches, especially to give one of them the full *****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Bro I know everyone is entitled to their opinions but, ranking triple H 3 ***** and triple H 2 ****1/2 is a HUGE stretch in my book. Again it's all opinion but I think Punks match was better than both of those and I would only rank that ****1/4*. His match at Mania27 was almost downright boring to me, I can't give it over ***1/2*. The only reason it's that high is because I thought the selling and story telling was so good. The match at mania 28 was better but I would only give that ****.
> 
> That's the great thing about wrestling, everyone is gonna have their opinion. I'd like to hear why you thought so highly of those matches, especially to give one of them the full *****


Mania 27 was like a suspense film I couldn't stop bearing with. The moment H hit his Tombstone, my heart froze over. And really, the storytelling alone is incredible.

But as far as I'm concerned, 28 has it beat in everything. 28 is my guilty pleasure - I was in jaw drop at how much epic it was. Selling, storytelling, (forced but whatevs) drama, sickening brutality (those chair shots, good lord), arguably the greatest nearfall ever (maybe 2nd to







), damn hot crowd... there's the bias factor too since it was my 1st live Mania . To me, it's that damn good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker slaughters HBK at WM imo .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But since we talking about resumés, here's some very good SummerSlam legacies:

*Bret Hart:*
w/Neidhart vs Rougeaus: **3/4
w/Neidhart vs Brain Busters: ****1/2
w/Neidhart vs Demolition: **1/2
vs Perfect: ****3/4
vs Bulldog: *****
vs Doink: **1/2
vs Lawler: ***
vs Owen: *****
vs Dr Isaac Yankem DDS :kane : **1/2
vs Taker: ****1/2

*Edge:*
TT Turmoil: **1/4
w/Christian vs Dudleys vs Hardys: ****1/2
vs Storm: ***1/2
vs Eddie: ***1/2
vs Jericho vs Batista: **
vs Matt: **3/4
vs Cena: ***3/4
vs Taker: ****1/2
w/Team WWE vs Nexus: ****

*The Undertaker:*
vs Kamala: 3/4*
vs Gonzales: DUD
vs Underfaker: **
vs Kama: 1/2*
vs Mankind: ****
vs Taker: ****1/2
vs Austin: ***1/2
w/Show vs Kane & X-Pac: ***
vs Kane: **
w/Kane vs Team BANG!~: DUD
vs Test: ***1/4
vs A-Train: ***
vs JBL: ***1/2
vs Orton: ****
vs Edge: ****1/2


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Mr Summerslam (according to WWE.com voting poll) CM Punk's Summerslam legacy

V Morrison **3/4
V JBL ***
V Jeff Hardy ****1/4
V Big Show *1/2
V Cena ****1/2
V Cena/Big Show ***1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Mania 27 was like a suspense film I couldn't stop bearing with. The moment H hit his Tombstone, my heart froze over. And really, the storytelling alone is incredible.
> 
> But as far as I'm concerned, 28 has it beat in everything. 28 is my guilty pleasure - I was in jaw drop at how much epic it was. Selling, storytelling, (forced but whatevs) drama, sickening brutality (those chair shots, good lord), arguably the greatest nearfall ever (maybe 2nd to
> 
> ...


Yea the gif you posted gets my vote for the best false finish of all time. It almost made me shit myself when it happened, I couldn't believe Shawn kicked out of it and Taker showing his humanity with that expression that says "I can't believe it. I can't fucking believe it. He kicked out. Nobody kicks out of that. How in the fuck am I supposed to beat this guy?" ......all in one look. Just tremendous on the part of taker, and he does some amazing acting at the end of Mania26 when he's trying to get Shawn to stay down and HBk is being defiant to the end.

You've officially convinced me, I own the streak DVD set I'm gonna rewatch The matches at WM27 and WM28 and see if a second viewing will change my mind. I only saw them once and that was live, I never bothered to watch them again once I got the set.

You were at mania28? That's awesome, the only one I've ever been to was when I was 11 years old and it was in Boston for Mania 14. I live in DC and that's the only one that was close enough when I was a kid for my dad to take me to. I had zero interest in going to Mania29 as an adult even though the Giants are my football team and I go to that stadium 3-4 times a year for games.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Mr. Summerslam?

If we're talking about straight up quality and if Brock/Punk delivers, it's BROCK. Four CLASSICS in a row at Summerslam is nothing to sneeze about at all. I love Bret, but to say that his Summerslam resume is overrated would be right on point for me. Think I'm going to break out the CAL SCALE for this one in all honesty and see where it goes, I'll check back in a little bit .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Yea the gif you posted gets my vote for the best false finish of all time. It almost made me shit myself when it happened, I couldn't believe Shawn kicked out of it and Taker showing his humanity with that expression that says "I can't believe it. I can't fucking believe it. He kicked out. Nobody kicks out of that. How in the fuck am I supposed to beat this guy?" ......all in one look. Just tremendous on the part of taker, and he does some amazing acting at the end of Mania26 when he's trying to get Shawn to stay down and HBk is being defiant to the end.
> 
> You've officially convinced me, I own the streak DVD set I'm gonna rewatch The matches at WM27 and WM28 and see if a second viewing will change my mind. I only saw them once and that was live, I never bothered to watch them again once I got the set.
> 
> You were at mania28? That's awesome, the only one I've ever been to was when I was 11 years old and it was in Boston for Mania 14. I live in DC and that's the only one that was close enough when I was a kid for my dad to take me to. I had zero interest in going to Mania29 as an adult even though the Giants are my football team and I go to that stadium 3-4 times a year for games.


Yeah, by live I actually mean "the 1st Mania I watched live on PPV". It sounds weird, but read along: atm I'm 15 years old, I'm live in Portugal and I watch wrestling since 2004. I watched WWE and TNA on TV, but wrestling programming in Portugal is around 4 weeks late than in America. PPV's were only avaliable in a premium channel, and I couldn't afford those (only in very special occasions, like WrestleMania, and even then that was WAAAYYY after it had happened). Only in around 2008 I started watching wrestling via internet. And ONLY in 2012, two years after I started to pay that channel for long terms, I finally got to watch a WM live, as it happened 

Some more SummerSlam legacies fyi:

*Randall Keith Viper All Star (Possible Mr. SummerSlam?):*
Elimination Chamber: ***
vs Benoit: ****1/2
vs Taker: ****
vs Hogan: **3/4
vs Cena I: ****
vs Cena II: 3/4*
vs Sheamus: ***1/2
vs Christian: ****1/2

*Chris Jericho:*
vs Benoit: ****
vs Rhyno: ***1/4
vs Flair: **3/4
Elimination Chamber: ***
vs Edge vs Batista: **
vs Cena: ****1/4
w/Show vs Cryme Tyme: ***
w/Team WWE vs Nexus: ****
vs Ziggler: ***3/4

*Kurt Angle:*
vs Rock vs HHH: ***
vs Austin: *****
vs Rey: ****1/4
vs Lesnar: ****1/2
vs Eddie: **1/2
vs Eugene: *1/2
_In Spider-Man's words, so close_ :angle

*Shawn Michaels:*
w/Jannetty vs Power & Glory: **1/2
vs Martel: *3/4
vs Perfect: **1/4
vs Razor: ****
vs Vader: ***3/4
vs HHH: ****
Elimination Chamber: ***
vs Hogan: ***
w/HHH vs McMahons: ***
w/HHH vs Legacy: ***3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Mr. Summerslam?
> 
> If we're talking about straight up quality and if Brock/Punk delivers, it's BROCK. Four CLASSICS in a row at Summerslam is nothing to sneeze about at all. I love Bret, but to say that his Summerslam resume is overrated would be right on point for me. Think I'm going to break out the CAL SCALE for this one in all honesty and see where it goes, I'll check back in a little bit .


Bret vs Perfect ****1/2*
Bret vs Davey Boy **** (best carry job of all time IMO)
Bret Hart vs Jerry Lawler (Dud)
Bret vs Owen Cage Match ****1/4*
Bret Hart vs Isaac Yankem **
Bret Hart vs Undertaker ***

That's a pretty stout resume in my book, prolly not the best of all time but damn good anyway you look at it.

Brock vs Rock ****
Brock vs Angle ****1/4* (you could convince me it deserves four and a half)
Brock vs Triple H ****
Brock vs Punk ? ( if every one delivers this could easily be a ****1/2*+ in my mind)

So yea this could make Brock Mr. Summerslam if he delivers I spose.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton's SummerSlam legacy is awesome. WWE.com are fucking retarded, though. They actually create a "Orton's SummerSlam moments" playlist and exclude the obvious moment that IS the defining day of his career.

Elimination Chamber - ★★¾
vs Benoit - ★★★★½
vs Undertaker - ★★★★¼
vs Hogan - ★★★
vs Cena I - ★★★¾
vs Cena II - ★
vs Sheamus - ★★★
vs Christian - ★★★★½

I really hope they don't keep him out of the card for the second year in a row. I know he'll be cashing in and all but let him have a normal one on one match with RVD!

BROCK has been awesome too, the opposite of his Wrestlemania work.

vs Rock - ★★★★¼
vs Angle - ★★★★½
vs HHH - ★★★½


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Mr. Summerslam's a tough once for me. Just to throw a few big guys off the top of my head and some of their best/biggest matches off the top of my head:

Brock:
vs. Rock 2002(****1/4)
vs. Angle 2003(****1/4)
vs. HHH 2012 (***)
vs. Punk 2013... we'll see. I'm expecting a classic (so ****1/2+) and if it reaches that level, despite the one blemish being the HHH match, Brock would still be a strong cantidate.

Rock:
vs. HHH 1998 (****)
vs. Brock 2002 (****1/4)

Austin:
vs. Taker 1998 (***1/2)
vs. Angle 2001 (****3/4) (GOAT SS Match)

Taker:
vs. Bret 1997 (****)
vs. Austin 1998 (***1/2)
w/ Big Show vs. Pac and Kane (***1/2)
vs. JBL 2004 (***1/2)
vs. Orton 2005 (***3/4)
vs. Edge 2008 (****1/2)

Angle:
vs. Austin 2001 (****3/4) (GOAT SS Match)
vs. Mysterio 2002 (****) (Maybe GOAT Opener)
vs. Lesnar 2003 (****1/4)

HBK:
vs. HHH 2002 (****1/4)
vs. Hogan 2005 (***3/4)
w/ HHH vs. Legacy 2009 (***3/4)

Punk:
vs. Jeff Hardy 2009 (****1/2)
vs. Cena 2011 (****)

Orton:
vs. Benoit 2004 (****)
vs. Taker 2005 (***3/4)
vs. Cena 2007 (****)
vs. Christian 2011 (****1/4)

So right now, based on ratings, Angle would be Mr. Summerslam. The Punk/Lesnar match could change that though for both Lesnar and Punk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm going through a bunch of old ratings and there's really no definitive answer to the question. If you include Summerslam 2010 then I guess it actually IS Bret, then you have people like HHH scoring high on the scale due to longevity and shit so I really wouldn't know. 

All I know is that Brock has the highest percentage of success when it comes to putting on awesome matches at Summerslam, crazy to think that Taker has only wrestled at the second biggest show of the year ONCE in the last eight years .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Mr. Summerslam's a tough once for me. Just to throw a few big guys off the top of my head and some of their best/biggest matches off the top of my head:
> 
> 
> HBK:
> ...


Gotta add the Razor rematch to that, shirley? Plus Vader


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> All I know is that Brock has the highest percentage of success when it comes to putting on awesome matches at Summerslam, crazy to think that Taker has only wrestled at the second biggest show of the year ONCE in the last eight years .


And crazy to think that before 2006, he was in every SummerSlam since 1992. But then he was off the 06 card because Khali was too shit for them to trust. After that, he missed 07 due to injury, 08 had his last match with Edge and 09 appeared at the end of the TLC match to attack Punk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best Shawn Match at Summerslam is the Vader bout IMO.

The Sheamus & Cena II matches were too terrible for me to put Orton up there with the greats at Summerslam honestly.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Best Shawn Match at Summerslam is the Vader bout IMO.
> 
> The Sheamus & Cena II matches were too terrible for me to put Orton up there with the greats at Summerslam honestly.


Hbk vs Vader and Hbk vs Razor ladder match 2 are both ****1/2* bouts in my mind. hbk just might be Mr. wrestlemania AND mr. Summerslam.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If it wasn't for the Eugene match, Angle would've been Mr. SummerSlam. Two decent matches in the 00 Triple Threat and vs Eddie, the GOAT SSlam opener vs Rey, the awesome one vs Lesnar and the ***** classic with Austin.

Moarh legacies:

*Kane:*
vs Bret: **1/2
w/X-Pac vs Unholy Alliance: ***
vs Taker: **
w/Taker vs Team BANG!~: DUD
vs RVD: **1/4
vs Matt: *1/4
vs Finlay: **3/4
vs Khali: DUD
vs Rey: ***1/4
vs Bryan: ***1/4

*Mick Foley:*
vs Taker: ****
vs HHH: ****1/4
vs Oddities: *1/2
vs Austin vs HHH: ***
vs Foley: ****1/2

*Chris Benoit:*
vs Jericho: ****
vs RVD: ****
vs Eddie vs Tajiri vs Rhyno: ***3/4
vs Orton: ****1/2
vs Jordan: 1/4*
_New contender right here._


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK SS (that matter):

Vs Razor 95 ****1/2
Vs Vader 96 ***3/4

Undertaker SS (that matter):

Vs Bret 97 ****1/4
w/Big Show Vs X-Pac & Kane 99 ***3/4
Vs JBL 04 ***3/4
Vs Orton 05 ****1/2
Vs Edge 08 ****

HHH SS (that matter):

Vs Lesnar '12 ****1/4

Rock SS (that matter):

Vs Brock 02 ****1/4

Angle SS (that matter):

Vs Austin 01 ****3/4
Vs Mysterio 02 ***3/4
Vs Lesnar 03 *****

Austin SS (that matter):

Vs Angle 01 ****3/4

Lesnar SS (that matter):

Vs Rock 02 ****1/4
Vs Angle 03 *****
Vs HHH '12 ****1/4

Orton SS (that matter):

Vs Benoit 04 ****1/4
Vs Undertaker 05 ****1/2
Vs Christian '11 ****

Bret SS (that matter):

Vs Perfect 91 *****
Vs Bulldog 92 ***3/4
Vs Undertaker 97 ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Finlay & Danielson were my favorite matches from those SummerSlams. 

KANE


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So were mine. Not the best, but my favourites. Kane/Finlay was too short, longer it would've been awesome. KANE, FINLAY AND A LOT OF PSYCHOLOGY.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*TOP 20 DIAMOND DALLAS PAGE MATCHES:*



Spoiler: last17



http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18657002-post13849.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/18492034-post13378.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/20987321-post18635.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/22229145-post615.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/22265825-post773.html

#20: w/ Chris Benoit vs. Raven/Saturn (2/19/98) 
#19: Vs. Kanyon/Jeff Jarrett (Superbrawl 01) 
#18: Vs. Chavo Guerrero (Fall Brawl 96)
#17: Vs. Eddy Guerrero (Starrcade 96)
#16: w/ Kanyon vs. Benoit/Saturn (GAB 99) 
#15: Vs. Johnny B. Badd (World War III 95) 
#14: Vs. Chris Benoit (2/5/98)
#13: Jersey Triad vs. Benoit/Saturn (Bash At The Beach 99)
#12: vs. Goldberg (4/19/99)
#11: Vs. Bret Hart (10/26/98)
#10: Vs. Raven (Spring Stampede 98)
#9: Vs. Sting (3/23/98)
#8: Vs. Bret Hart (8/17/98)
#7: Vs. Chris Benoit (Superbrawl 1998)
#6: Vs. Randy Savage (Great American Bash 1997)
#5: Vs. Randy Savage (Spring Stampede 1997)
#4: Vs. Goldberg (Halloween Havoc 1998)


*3. Vs. Randy Savage (Halloween Havoc 1997)*










The finale of one of the best trilogies in WCW. The way they end it all is in a Las Vegas Sudden Death Match (Last Man Standing for us normal folks). This is an all out slugfest for the ages if I’ve ever seen one. DDP’s patented taped up ribs are in for the taking for Savage, but his heart sure isn’t. Like all their other matches, the fight goes all around the building with the added benefit of Dusty Rhodes putting on a commentating clinic. Savage’s punches and weapon shots here are harder than ever while DDP’s defense was great (THAT CAMERA SPOT!). Even the Elizabeth/Kimberly action was really well-done, especially with Elizabeth going as far as to attack DDP. 

These two make this match feel even bigger by bringing out the finishers more so than their prior matches without making this into a finisher fest. It should also be noted that this match doesn’t follow the stupid trope of most last man standing matches in that the countdowns actually feel natural and in the flow of the match. In addition, none of their classics ever fall into the common trap of becoming a spotfest in any way. Ending has its detractors, but I feel like it was the only way that a match like this could possibly end. Like Evan once said, this feud was so special because this was Page’s first main event feud while also being Savage’s last. And nobody impressed better than Page in their first feud with the way that even when his back was against the wall, he just did not quit. 

*2. Vs. Sting (4/26/99)*










Often considered by many to be one of the two greatest matches ever on WCW television. During this period, Page was a heel WCW fighting champion which I did not know was possible. Sting was on a hiatus but he is now back for a shot at the Big Gold Belt. Not even the main event of the show, but the atmosphere here is Starrcade main event quality.

A lot of fans seem to prefer “Crow Sting” as a character as opposed to “Surfer Sting” because of the dark loner attitude surrounding Sting during that period, but one thing that the man had trouble with was having a half-decent match. Thankfully, not only does he have an opponent here that knows how to work with subpar wrestlers, but Sting also decides to work this match closer to his Surfer persona. He’s moving around quicker than usual and he doesn’t do any of that dragged out nonsense that cluttered his late 90s matches. When Sting has that energy, you’re guaranteed a fun ride.

For all that has been said about Sting, DDP deserves even more credit for what he does in this match. Like in his mid-90s period as a heel, Page is a master at interacting with the crowd. The heat that the once top face got here was phenomenal. As mentioned before, he also cuts off Sting’s momentum at the correct time a la Triple H with his high knee. The punches are harder and the kicks are cheaper. What is most worth noting is the huge change in the position that Diamond has in relation to his opponent. Instead of fighting on his knees and scraping for bits of his opponent like he did as a face, DDP is now the guy that is on top and in the advantage. 

My review definitely does not do this match justice, but anyone that has not seen this is doing themselves an injustice. No, this isn’t some crazy gimmick match or even part of a big feud, but it is one of the smoothest flowing matches you will see. Very simple but effective face/heel story told here that clearly works. This isn’t a nearfall or finisher fest, but when the big moves are hit, the pinfalls were very convincing. If you watched their 1998 match, you will also see some cool callback spots. Most importantly, these guys go above and beyond to defeat each other and go way outside their comfort zones. If you’re a fan of matches like Angle/Undertaker, Punk/Cena, or Bret/Perfect, or if you’re just a fan of damn good wrestling, this is the match for you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Personally think the Savage/DDP matches are garbage. NO idea what your #1 is gonna be unless I'm forgetting about another terribly overrated Savage match .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#1 is *obviously* the Cage match from SummerSlam '01. 8*D

:taker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Halloween Havoc '97 match was my least favorite of the Savage vs DDP series. GAB is :mark:

I do dig 'em all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey, this isn't MY DDP list. Nobody else seems to be crazy enough to give that match a rating. Its not BAD... it just isn't great. Don't really get the hate for it either. Kanyon and DDP get some offence in on fucking UNDERTAKER AND KANE, two of the biggest, baddest motherfuckers going especially at that time, then they let Kanyon escape so they can brutally murder DDP who might I remind you STALKED THE UNDERTAKER'S WIFE. Undertaker got revenge, DDP got destroyed... pretty much how the story SHOULD have ended.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Hey, this isn't MY DDP list. Nobody else seems to be crazy enough to give that match a rating. Its not BAD... it just isn't great. Don't really get the hate for it either. Kanyon and DDP get some offence in on fucking UNDERTAKER AND KANE, two of the biggest, baddest motherfuckers going especially at that time, then they let Kanyon escape so they can brutally murder DDP who might I remind you STALKED THE UNDERTAKER'S WIFE. Undertaker got revenge, DDP got destroyed... pretty much how the story SHOULD have ended.


I know it's opinions but dammit Cal, it's not bad? You're damn right. It's AWFUL. A glorified squash doesn't make it justice. They get _barely_ any offence, and worsen that with just how bloody stupid the whole angle was, adding it to the list of matches were the build-up was so atrocious it took away from the match itself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DDP and Kanyon inside a CAGE against the BROTHERS OF DESTRUCTION who were fighting for revenge... I really don't see how or why they should have got much offense in lol. NOT BELIEVABLE~!

Just had another look at that DDP list, and unless I'm blind, I don't see the triple threat with DDP, Raven and Benoit. Good match and a ton of fun but definitely not DDP's best imo. Goldberg x2, Sting x2 and probably vs Benoit PPV match would likely go above it for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Which makes its existance even worse 

I also like to think that #1 is DDP & Leno/Hogan & Bischoff :troll


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DDP/Jarrett/Arquette FTW.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You can blame the actual storyline, as Cal said, the match went alongside the origins of the storyline, i.e Taker wanting to get his hands on DDP.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, finally something that really stands out on the ECw Unreleased Vol 1 set. Btw, why is it called unreleased when all this shit was available on home video? 

Anyway, the standout match is Shane Douglas vs Bam Bam Bigelow from November to Remember 1997. Shane played the role of the underneath fighter so well- the guy sold his ass off! He'd give Bam Bam Bigelow three chops only for Bam Bam to hit one headbutt to send Shane falling. This match is just so good imo and is my kind of match. Finish came outta nowhere but boy did it have the place rocking. Had me too.

*****1/4*


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

cjack828 said:


> Hbk vs Vader and Hbk vs Razor ladder match 2 are both ****1/2* bouts in my mind. hbk just might be Mr. wrestlemania AND mr. Summerslam.


Shawn Michaels is Mr. WWE as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Shawn Michaels is Mr. WWE as far as I'm concerned.


To me he's ALMOST, but not quite. This guy is Mr. WWE:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think Taker/Kane v. Kanyon/DDP is bad either. Cal probably thinks it's better than the Savage matches though which is stoooopid. Stoooopid Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 coming to my defence! Kinda...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I third that. It's not a bad match. Squash or not, DDP and Kanyon are bumping like madmen throughout it and quite frankly, the ending made me laugh when Taker told DDP to not even dare looking at his wife again and he was like "Yeah yeah... just let me go" before Taker brought him down and murdered him some more.

Just watched the Smackdown before Judgment Day 2007 and Benoit & Finlay hook up for the last time one-on-one. It was funny to see Benoit try the Sharpshooter on Hornswoggle. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Just watched the Smackdown before Judgment Day 2007 and Benoit & Finlay hook up for the last time one-on-one. *It was funny to see Benoit try the Sharpshooter on Hornswoggle.* :lol


Sounds funny, but at the same time kinda weird given what happened (no disrespect though)... still, is there a video of that match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Undertaker & Kane vs DDP & Kanyon from SummerSlam is far, far from a bad match. It's just a squash. And really, that's how things should have ended. Finality and DDP got his just desserts.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only one that hates it? unk3

#insertforeveralonesmiley.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Sounds funny, but at the same time kinda weird given what happened (no disrespect though)... still, is there a video of that match?


Can't find any videos. The closest is this picture:


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Looking forward to Bryan/Cena, but jesus this feud is awful. It's handpicking opponents, makeovers, and a lot of shouting of the word "yes." I expected a bad program, but nothing like this. If it weren't for knowing that these two will put on a classic, I wouldn't give a shit about this match. Only gets worse with Orton involved.

I can comfortably call Lesnar/Punk/Heyman the best program since 2011. There hasn't been a flaw yet, other than Lesnar's absence on some shows, but even then they made it work. Think the match will be superior to Bryan/Cena as well.

A few weeks ago I would have said that Lesnar/Punk would easily main event, but now I'm not sure. WWE have got some sort of hard on for the title match so it's looking more and more likely that it would close over Lesnar/Punk. Either way, we're in for two insane main events.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree with the Bryan/Cena feud, Wrestlingfan35. Although saying it's 'awful' is harsh. It certainly isn't good though. The only thing that I'm excited for is the potential match quality or Orton cashing in the MITB. Vince's involvement is also interested but between Cena and Bryan, nothing exciting is happening. Bryan saying "you're just an entertainer, not a wrestler" isn't example of a great feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punker vs Brock has that essence of being larger than life that it doesn't even need a thousand and one segments to try and hype it up. It has the segment on RAW that ups the intensity, and the occasional promo from the two mic gods in Punker & Heyman on Smackdown or elsewhere to continue to heat. It's gonna be an electric experience. No doubt.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm just glad we've had Brock appearances and interactions in this feud. I can't stand most feuds where one guys isn't even on TV half the time but this one has me captivated.

I really don't mind the Cena/Bryan storyline.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just can't take anymore of the McMahons and Trips to like that portion of Danielson vs Cena. Then Cena's promo last week was ass and made ZERO sense. Still excited for the match of course. Danielson in the whole thing has been tremendous. The other pieces are sort of there and not worthy my time.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cena's promo was actually one of the best promos he has cut this year, I felt. That line where he said he would never go to any other wrestling promotion because he respects WWE made sense in terms of replying to Bryan saying that he would wrestle elsewhere if WWE ever fired him.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wasn't a fan of the Cena promo. It really didn't make any sense. I'm also real sick of the Cena promo format of "some of you like me, some of you don't and I respect that" etc, etc.

Also, the McMahons/Trips stuff has been terrible. I really don't understand why it has to intersect the Bryan/Cena feud.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena's promo was horrid from a face perspective, but for the past two years or so, I just assume that Cena is the top heel in the company, so I kinda enjoyed that awful promo for the lulz.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

lmao yeah, if you view Cena's promo as a heel promo it's solid.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cena's promo was horrid from a face perspective, but for the past two years or so, I just assume that Cena is the top heel in the company, so I kinda enjoyed that awful promo for the lulz.



That is exactly how I have felt for a while and have been wondering if other people caught on to it as well. I think part of the reason WWE has kept Cena so bland and hasn't switched up his character in a while is, they want to keep him positioned as the one true heel in the company. If you think about it, Cena doing a heel turn really would turn him into a BABYFACE for most of the WWae audience. Back in the 70s and 80s, fans actually hated heels. Steve Austin ruined tha, because he became such a cool badass heel, that people started liking him. By keeping Cena in Jorts and cutting those boring promos and just doing Cena things in general, they are keeping him as the one real heel with real heat the company has. How many other wrestlers on the roster have real heat that are heels? Maybe ADR but not really, people started liking him again now that he's acting more vicious and ruthless. The last heel I can think of that was getting real HEAT from the audience was CM Punk back when he did the SES. When you guys watch Cena, don't you want to see him get beat? I know I do. That's the essence of being a heel.

Or maybe I'm just looking way you too much into this and WWE really doesn't care what the audience wants.


Edit. Man I just watched a ****1/4* classic I had never know about. It was Guerrero vs Benoit on Nitro in October of 95'. It was right when both guys joined the company and they just absolutely tore it up. Features some great work on eddies arm by Benoit. Benoit comes up with all those unique suplexes that target eddies arm. Solid action throughout, although listening to Mongo on commentary made me what to head butt a brick wall. Benoit delivers what I think is one of the most devastating power bombs I've ever seen. I mean it looks like he fucking kills Guerrero with it. I thoroughly enjoyed this match, it's on the Hard Knocks Benoit set.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wish Benoit's set had included more WWE matches. They only have the cage match with Angle, the WM triple threat and the Rumble match with Angle in it. The latter would later appear on "The History of the WWE Championship" making it a wasted spot.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I preferred Benoit's bulk being from WCW. Also the ECW gem vs Al Snow is one of my favorite Benoit matches around. Not to mention THREE are from New Japan. That's freakin glorious. Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke Super J Cup Finals :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Speaking of which, has anyone seen any of the Benoit/Villano III matches? I heard that there is one specifically that may very well be Benoit's best match ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mask vs Mask Match










Who's a better judge than yourself?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just got back from the shore (beach) burnt out of my mind arms are killing but anyways what I miss I see we are still taking about Benoit


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well it beats the ol _"John Cena is actually a heel" _stuff. I can't exhaust much time behind that topic anymore.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> HBK has definitely one of the better runs ever at WM. I'd rank his WM stuff like this:
> 
> Taker II > Taker I > Razor > Cena > Flair > Benoit/HHH > Austin > Jericho > Orient Express > Twin Towers > Vince > Power & Glory > Diesel > Tatanka > Bret > Santana > Angle.


Fixed it for ya


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Where the heck is the awesome FACES OF FEAR vs Rockers match from WM VII?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just reaaranged the ones he posted


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It's weird, I've probably watched HBK/Austin from WM XIV at least five times. It's even the first match I ever watched as a kid. But I still don't have a strong opinion on it or remember anything of it other than the ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I just reaaranged the ones he posted


Rockers never worked vs Power & Glory at WM too. Just noticed that was listed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HBK/Austin is one of those matches that are just THERE for me, y'know? It's good, actually pretty damn good at times, but at the end of the day it doesn't jump out at me as anything "special", which is why I get perplexed by the match from time to time. I mean, what's so standout about that match that it would prompt somebody into giving it say, a four star rating?


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Is there a few events you have seen more than others? For me it's stuff I watched when I first got into wrestling and didn't have many options. Here are the ones I've probably seen alot.

Fully Loaded 1998
Wrestlemania XV
St Valentines Day Massacre 1999
Royal Rumble 1998 & 1999
WCW Road Wild 1998 (side note here is that I saw the ppv for free because it came in for some reason)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've watched both Taboo Tuesday events a gross amount. I could say a lot for this. These two fit for the first answer.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I preferred Benoit's bulk being from WCW. Also the ECW gem vs Al Snow is one of my favorite Benoit matches around. Not to mention THREE are from New Japan. That's freakin glorious. Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke Super J Cup Finals :mark:


I absolutely loved the Al Snow match, it's from when he was still the "best kept secret in wrestling", before he got the head gimmick and started becoming known for his hardcore style brawling. I'd say its probably the second or third best match on the DVD set, behind only the Mania 3way for sure and maybe the Eddie match from Nitro (it could be better I've only seen both matches once). I haven't watched the New Japan stuff yet I plan on watching that tomorrow, I can only imagine how good he would be against a legend like Liger. I haven't seen much from Sasuke but the way Benoit puts him over on the DVD makes me think he is probably incredible. 

Sorry for bringing up the "Cena is a heel" topic, obviously I'm new to the forum I don't know what has and hasn't been discussed to death already.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Rockers never worked vs Power & Glory at WM too. Just noticed that was listed.


He probably got mixed up with summerslam, I really want looking at those just his glaring misplacement

HBK/Austin wm 14 is kinda a guilt pleasure, not saying its great, most I'd give it is *** but DAT BUILD, DAT ENTRANCE, the feeling and importance of the belt. Probably my favorite build to a ppv, DX/austin/tyson were all on their games


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I absolutely loved the Al Snow match, it's from when he was still the "best kept secret in wrestling", before he got the head gimmick and started becoming known for his hardcore style brawling. I'd say its probably the second or third best match on the DVD set, behind only the Mania 3way for sure and maybe the Eddie match from Nitro (it could be better I've only seen both matches once). I haven't watched the New Japan stuff yet I plan on watching that tomorrow, I can only imagine how good he would be against a legend like Liger. I haven't seen much from Sasuke but the way Benoit puts him over on the DVD makes me think he is probably incredible.
> 
> Sorry for bringing up the "Cena is a heel" topic, obviously I'm new to the forum I don't know what has and hasn't been discussed to death already.


Heaven's no need to apologize for anything. My interest on it is zilch, but that doesn't mean it is for anyone else. I'm no discussion dictator.

The Liger match is really good, but I'd say it really doesn't touch how great the Sasuke match is. Black Tiger match is quality too. Of course as it is Eddie Guererro and most of their matches vs one another were usually worth seeing.

From the American batch I'd say my top three favorite matches on the set are vs Al Snow, vs Kevin Sullivan, & Eddie from Nitro. There is that stellar Regal match on it too. Shoot. It's hard to pick a top three from those four alone. Love 'em all.



redskins25 said:


> He probably got mixed up with summerslam, I really want looking at those just his glaring misplacement


Oh I'm sure that's what it was.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I think taking into consideration that Shawn shouldn't have even been in the ring at WM 14, he did okay. Build was pretty great, but he needed to get out of there. His back was a mess, he was pilled out of his mind, and things would have gotten worse. 

Gave RVD/Y2J a rewatch from 7/15 a rewatch. Still think it's a fun match. Yes some execution seems slow, but the crowd (Brooklyn has been good for them) ate up everything both guys did and added a good bit to the atmosphere. Van Dam's kicks are still pretty sweet. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's obvious as to why that match at WM 14 isn't "too special" on the whole for most fans. Shawn could hardly work. Fact that he did and had a match I've always liked is impressive. He went twenty minutes in agony to put Austin over. While it was hectic backstage, he did his job.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm about to watch this BROCK vs Big Show match from Judgment Day again and it just donned on me how silly and over the top WWE's "no Benoit" policy really is. For instance, they will not show this match in its entirety as long as that "rule" stands because his name appears on the stretcher. Similarly, it seems like they don't show anything from Fully Loaded entirely because his face is on the titantron.

And Austin vs HBK from WM14 is decent, nothing great but nothing bad. Specially when you consider Shawn's condition, it's better than it really should've been.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Anything stopping Brock vs Big Show stretcher match being shown in full should be removed from this planet.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brock/Big Show is one of those matches that I never would have bothered watching again if it wasn't for you guys. When I first watched it live ten years ago, I remembered liking the Mysterio stuff, but nothing else. I especially hated face Lesnar in general at the time. A rewatch last year thanks to The Beast Incarnate's raving of that match got me to rewatch and love it. May even be best main event PPV match of 2003.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd say it is. Kind of by a landslide too since a good bit of PPV main events in 2003 were very poor.

NWO, Backlash, Insurrextion, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Survivor Series, & Armageddon. SummerSlam was really mediocre, but at least Goldberg made portions of it entertaining.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Anything stopping Brock vs Big Show stretcher match being shown in full should be removed from this planet.


I really wish I could raid their library to get a hold of some HD clips that they are not willing to release to the public. Most of Raw 2004 specially.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just realized that all of the show enders in 2003 sucked complete balls apart from a few bouts. I really enjoyed Goldberg's rampage in the Summerslam 2003 chamber though, thought it was a monster performance that was never really duplicated, also felt that maybe that was the worst booking decision in the entire career of HHH.

Come to think of it, it was just like Brock really; HHH gets his win on the biggest show.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> May even be best main event PPV match of 2003.


You're probably right, and there really isn't much competition. I need to watch the WWE title Triple Threat from Vengeance with Angle/Show/Lesnar, but the only other match that would be competition is Angle/Lesnar from Mania (for me, probably not everyone else). Thoughts on the Rumble from that year?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on the 2003 Rumble match itself?

Probably the worst of the 2000-2009 decade, but I'm still a fan. Better than 3 of the last four Rumbles, that's for sure (2010, 2012, & 2013 were very.. MEH... Fuck 2012 though).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How about openers for 2003?

Vengeance (Eddie/Benoit) and Survivor Series (Team Angle/Lesnar) started with a bang, Royal Rumble was good (Show/Lesnar) as was No Way Out (Jericho/Jeff) and Backlash (Team Angle/Los Guerreros).

Now I'ma watch RVD/Eddie ladder match from Raw 27/5/02.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

What are the best sub 10 minute TV matches? I really liked this on my last watch. 






I also expect a Triple H vs. TAKA mention.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Is there a few events you have seen more than others? For me it's stuff I watched when I first got into wrestling and didn't have many options. Here are the ones I've probably seen alot.
> 
> Fully Loaded 1998
> Wrestlemania XV
> ...


Vengeance '03
Wrestlemania 22
Royal Rumble 2007
Punk: The Final Chapter

I've watched those shows an obscene amount of times.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished the Eddie Guerrero vs RVD ladder match. ★★★★ for this. Awesome stuff, the random fan entering the ring was out of nowhere and even the ladder botch in the end with RVD didn't take away from it. Sucks Eddie died so soon, he was on a roll from 2002-2005. Went to see the wwe.com version of it and even though they turn it into some kind of short highlights just to censor Benoit's ringside appearance, they can't censor the fan sign that says "Benoit is home"!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> I really wish I could raid their library to get a hold of some HD clips that they are not willing to release to the public. Most of Raw 2004 specially.


That would be phenomenal. I really, really should go through all of those tag matches that ruled RAW in 2004 and watch 'em all again. That day I did with the Orton vs Edge series from '04 was legit. Not sure which year on the whole I loved more for RAW: 2004 or 2005.



Brye said:


> Vengeance '03
> Wrestlemania 22
> Royal Rumble 2007
> Punk: The Final Chapter
> ...


My brother bought Punk: The Final Chapter months ago and we still haven't watched it yet. :$


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

About the HBK WM talk, I meant Faces Of Fear, and not Power & Glory. The memory of WM 7 may be weak, but it'll never die (Pretty much a Top 5 Mania ever if you ask me). 

Though I do think Rockers/FOF or Harts/Nasty Boys are awesome, but imo, Steiners/Headshrinkers from 9 is just as good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't say I remember the Steiners match too well except for the ballistic spot in the match. You know the one if you know the match. The other two from WM VII on the other hand...YESSSSSS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah the badass counter of doom spot. With all the bad stuff I heard of WM 9, I was legit shocked that match was as good as it was.

WM 7 as a whole is YES btw. The Tag matches, Tenryu at WM, the beggining of the Streak, the Blindfold match that I enjoyed, Perfect/Bossman is immensely underrated, the solid Main Event... and *Savage/Warrior* :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 7 got EIGHT matches at 0 points on the CAL SCALE. Yet is the 11th best WM ever .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If it wasn't for 19 and 21, I would've said that 7 has the best undercard ever at a Mania.

Speaking of this, I tried to do a "numbers" approach for SummerSlam, turns out SummerSlam 20 was 2007. What an amazing 20th show that was (sarcasm) fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good thing the "anniversary" dates mean nothing with wrestling shows. And 2007 gave me Kane vs Finlay. It wasn't a total bust. :hb


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well here's one that, if not for the Taker/Kennedy match, would've been a WOAT contender - the 20th Survivor Series was 2006. PUKESMILEY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First Blood & Benoit vs Chavo. Rest...yeah. Still can't believe Team Rated RKO got squashed. Oh DX. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And the 20th Royal Rumble was 2007. Pretty cool. A very, very fitting 20th show tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Amazing show. Ignore the crapfest that was pretty much like a blur anyways and it's perfection. So glad that Batista vs Kennedy match shocked the world and was good. Only helped support the fantastic opener, WWE Championship, & Rumble match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If only Lashley/Test had never happened...

Batista/Kennedy was a shocker. Kennedy looked awesome with all that submission work.

Could you say it's a Top 5 Rumble PPV ever alongside 00, 01, 02 and 05?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR 07 was saved by the awesome rumble match and the opening tag. Batista/Kennedy was solid along with Cena/Umaga but didn't really add much to the show. ECW title match was turd. Managed to be #9 overall on the CAL SCALE for RR events.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To get ready for da SUMMASLAMME TWENTY-THIRTEEN, I'm now watching the Kane/MVP Inferno match. Very fun if you ask me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame this latest inferno match doesn't end when someone is set on fire. Kinda seems... pointless in a way.

But what would happen is someone accidentally got set on fire? Would the match have to continue?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess so


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

What PPV shall I watch today from my DVD library folks (give me more than one suggestion as I might not have it )?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Royal Rumble 2000
SummerSlam 2001
Vengeance 2003
No Way Out 2006
Judgment Day 2006
No Mercy 2006
Armageddon 2006


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After all the talk about the GOAT Summerslam, i watched 2002 today:

Kurt Angle vs. Rey Misterio ****
Ric Flair vs. Chris Jericho **1/2
Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero ***3/4
Lance Storm & Christian (c) vs. Booker T. & Goldust ***3/4
Rob Van Dam vs. Chris Benoit ****
The Undertaker vs. Test **1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H ****1/2
The Rock (c) vs. Brock Lesnar ****1/4

The opening match just gets better every fucking time, LOVE IT TO DEATH!!!

Love the main event training videos too:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just finished watching Trish/Mickie @ WM 22 and it got me thinking:

Top 5 WWE Women's/Diva matches that DON'T include Mickie, Trish or Lita. I fancy watching some scantily clad lasses wrassle for a bit


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_~ Payback 2013 Review ~_


*Curtis Axel Vs The Miz Vs Wade Barrett* was as good as it could possibly be considering I can't fucking stand either of the guys in there. Really though, it was a pretty formulaic triple threat with just move after move after move but hey, at least it was some non-stop action am I correct? Thought that Miz's work was the best of the trio by a considerable margin and that the ending was really creative and helped build the Axel/Heyman dynamic even further. Not a good match at all in my book, but it certainly wasn't terrible for what it was either.

*Kaitlyn Vs AJ Lee* encapsulated everything that the Divas Division SHOULD be in the year 2013. This had intensity, a wonderful heel/babyface dynamic with Kaitlyn being the fucked with babyface who the heel ultimately gets to and AJ Lee being essentially the demon child who gets everything that she wants in the end. Brilliant storytelling here and probably the best women's match that I've seen since 2006/2007ish for sure. These two have some great chemistry and I wouldn't even care if they wrestled at every PPV if it meant matches like these.

*Dean Ambrose Vs Kane* on the other hand was fucking terrible. Just slow, plodding action with no real depth to it besides the countout strategy near the end (but that was about 7 minutes in of course) and just a pretty bad contest all around. I don't know what the fuck is up with Ambrose and his singles bouts, but I haven't bought into a single one of his heel control segments yet. I'm really hoping that this changes as I'd really like to see big things from him, but God damn, I expected this to not be the "piss break match" & that's exactly what it was.

*Alberto Del Rio Vs Dolph Ziggler* is arguably the match of the year so far and one of the most brilliant bouts that I've seen over the past few years. Del Rio's slow burning turn from the fan favorite to a devious son of a bitch that is remorseless as they can go is insane while Dolph's cocky attitude submerging into an underdog persona filled with the fighting spirit and resiliency is truly a beautiful thing. This match is really what wrestling should be, and if I were to describe this match in one word I'd probably say "organic". I've talked about this time and time again though, it's a bout you need to see more than once to truly get as it's not the traditional WWE main event style. EASY MOTN however.

*CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho* was solid but ultimately underwhelming. The match showed high levels of "meh, been there done that" as I wasn't exactly sure why this match had to happen in the first place. I liked the idea of Punk's ring rust & Heyman nearly costing him the match a couple of times, and I really enjoyed the energy of the finish and a few counters, but the spamming of finishers and the slow, plodding nature of the bout at the beginning really drags it down for me in the end. It doesn't touch their 2012 series at all, but it's probably on par with their RAW match from earlier this year which was really good. It's good I suppose, but not GREAT at all.

*Randy Orton & Daniel Bryan Vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns* I felt was better than the Punk-Jericho match and the second best match on the card. That doesn't mean that it's amazing or anything, but a really fucking good pair of performances from Bryan and Rollins really made this stick out to me. I felt Orton & Reigns were okay in this but I really felt that Rollins and Bryan were essentially made for each other as Bryan is the plucky, paranoid babyface while Rollins in the psycho heel who bumps around like a savage. You just KNEW they were going to go with that ending of course, but in the end there were a ton of great nearfalls so I can't complain. GREAT STUFF.

*John Cena Vs Ryback* in a three stages of hell match was actually kinda fun at times. Was it a good match? Fuck no, but I'd be lying if I didn't enjoy some of the ridiculous moments such as the Cena dive, Ryback punching through an Ambulance window like he's fucking Goldberg, or anything like that. It wasn't so much a match as it was a collection of spots and moments designed to make us think that it was fucking awesome or something, which it really wasn't. Wasn't horrible or anything and I'd say that it's comfortably better than the atrocious HHH/Orton & HHH/HBK 3SOH matches, but a step below the Austin/HHH one in 2001. I have no idea why this main evented a PPV as well, Ryback sucks unless he's being put with Bryan, Henry, or Punk .



Spoiler: Snowflakes for those who only care about Snowflakes. Fuckers.



The Miz Vs Wade Barrett Vs Curtis Axel ~ ** 1/2*

Kaitlyn Vs AJ Lee ~ *****

Dean Ambrose Vs Kane ~ *1/2**

Alberto Del Rio Vs Dolph Ziggler ~ ***** 1/4*

CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho ~ *** 3/4*

Daniel Bryan/Randy Orton Vs Seth Rollins/Roman Reigns ~ *****

John Cena Vs Ryback ~ ** 1/2*

CAL SCALE ~ 12


​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> but a step below the Austin/HHH one in 2001.


I'd say SEVERAL STEPS IMHO, mind you i did find some whole new love for the Trips/Austin match on my last watch.  Cena/Ryback i thought was rather horrible and so very pointless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, that's what I meant actually. I'm not THAT high on the Austin/HHH really, but it's certainly miles better than Cena/Ryback. I find it crazy how twenty years later we're still using the Hogan formula, just with Cena in Hogan's place (Vs MONSTERS on smaller shows, Vs legit threats to the title on bigger shows).

Just got an idea; going to close my eyes and pick a DVD, then randomly watch and talk about one match on that show/DVD. Then I'm going to do it over and over again until I wanna do something else, first off is HIAC 2012 and for some reason I wanna watch Punk-Ryback over Show-Sheamus, mainly because I wanna relive the greatness that was Punk 2012-2013 HEELDOM.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HIAC 2012 is tbph a very good PPV... totally ruined by the bloody awful Atlanta crowd.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Speaking of which, has anyone seen any of the Benoit/Villano III matches? I heard that there is one specifically that may very well be Benoit's best match ever.


They're very good but don't rank near the top of Benoit.


I really don't like Michaels/Austin WM14 at all. Wouldn't be surprised if I watched it again and called it bad. I've been thinking of ranking the Mania main events for a while now but watching Cena/Miz again makes me literally single-handedly not want to do it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd put Michaels/Austin in the category of Brock/Angle in the sense that alot of people think highly of it but if asked why they think its such a good match, would have a hard time trying to explain it. I used to think Brock/Angle was really fucking good but I don't know anymore. I think it's okay, but I think that it might be perhaps the worst match on the card besides the women's triple threat. MAYBE.

I'm not nearly as high on XIV as a whole as I used to be. The best match in my mind is obviously Taker Vs Kane and I'm not as high on that one as most are either.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I really want to watch ziggler/del rio payback again but its one of those matches you want to always think this highly of, and anything down would be heartbreaking, I know I sound like a bitch :lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ambrose has a really slow style of working. The only reason everyone started hyping him up was simply due to the fact that WWE signed a guy and the IWC started riding his dick, what's new? If you look at his indy work he definitely worked a completely different style from the majority of guys on the indies. He's always worked that "WWE Style" which is what probably got him signed. That and he makes for a great promo. But yeah, fact is, you dig up posts from 2000, 2010 and you would see nowhere near the support you saw for Ambrose from 2011 onward. 

His match with Kane really stunk up the joint and set the tone for the rest of the night. The PPV went downhill from there. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe they just didn't have much chemistry that night. But Ambrose style of wrestling is one that is slow and methodical. Don't expect Daniel Bryan-esque wrestling from him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another of these SummerSlam legacies:

*Triple H:*
vs Mankind - ****1/4
vs Rock - ***1/2
vs Austin vs Mankind - ***
vs Rock vs Angle - ***
vs HBK - ****
Elimination Chamber - ***
vs Eugene - ***1/2
w/HBK vs McMahons - ***
vs Booker - DUD
vs Khali - **1/2
w/HBK vs Legacy - ***3/4
vs Lesnar - ***3/4

Not bad.


----------



## Raw2003 (Dec 20, 2012)

Anyone Else disgusteed with the over priced original wwf dvds? I had to pay over £40 for Wrestlemania 17 the other month, I know it's a really good Wrestlemania but to have normal ppv's from that time at the same type of price is utterly ridiculous.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just pulled out Judgment Day 2003 & Vengeance 2003 at random.

Eddie/Tajiri Vs WGTT & Eddie Vs Benoit = YES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Another of these SummerSlam legacies:
> 
> *Triple H:*
> vs Mankind - ****1/4
> ...


**1/2
**
*
***1/4
**3/4
**1/2
**1/2
DUD
DUD
***
****1/4

Not so good at all tbh .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And Lesnar/Show, Taker/Cena and Lesnar/Angle/Show.

HHH/Nash and Hogan/Piper, though...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Using the CAL SCALE, HHH has one of the highest scores at Summerslam next to a few others. That's fucking weird seeing as how he only has a few matches at Summerslam (Vs Mankind, Vs Eugene, Vs Brock) that I really love, with a few that I like alot (EC 2003 but he didn't even do fuck all in it, Vs Legacy).

His matches at 95, 98, 99, 00, and 07 are all lackluster though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_CM Punk Vs Ryback - Hell in a Cell 2012_

Thought that this was way better than everybody gives it credit for. It's essentially just a shittier take on the original GOAT match in Michaels-Taker from 15 years earlier with Punk trying to find out a way to escape a monster he is stuck inside of a cage with. This match shows us CM Punk as the innovator he is with the fire extinguisher spot on top of the many openings he creates to gain some offense on a man who outweighs him by probably 100 pounds (Punk is billed at 220 & Ryback is billed at 290, but there's 0 fucking chance that Punk is 220 pounds). They actually used the cell in this one as a psychological instrument, instantly catapulting it on top of alot of other cell matches that I've seen that are essentially STREETFIGHTS IN A CAGE. It wasn't amazing or anything, but I thought it was a pretty damn good contest for what it was and a really underrated bout. It was the CM Punk show at its finest.

_Eddie Guerrero & Tajiri Vs The World's Greatest Tag Team - Judgment Day 2003_

Ladder match here as I was really feeling this one. The WGTT decided to fucking bring it to try and match the great performances of Eddie and Tajiri, which is obviously not a easy thing to do of course. Tajiri's bumping like a madman was excellent, as was Eddie's character work in his style. The innovation of some of the spots were great such as the leapfrog onto the ladder was superb, as I'm finally starting to realize that Benjamin is one of the best spotworkers in company history. Mix & match that with Eddie and Tajiri's individual performances and you've got yourself one hell of a ladder bout. I don't think it reached ELITE status or classic status due to the match not really being that deep at all, but I thought it was fun as hell and a pretty awesome match overall. The blue brand with this match and Brock/Show really slaughtered RAW (HHH/Nash FFS) at that particular show. Tajiri though = <3.

_Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - Vengeance 2003_

Dear fucking Mary, Joseph, and Jesus this was excellent. I don't really know why this isn't discussed as the best opener since Wrestlemania X but it more than likely is. Benoit and Eddie just go out there and put both of their characters into a performance that had me hanging onto the edge of my seat the entire time. Benoit's intensity in this one is off the charts, pulling every move out in his arsenal to try and put down the sleazeball heel Guerrero who puts on one hell of a character performance himself as the heel who will do anything to win. The bits with the referee at the end are fantastic, and to see Eddie come up with numerous ways to try and win the match by any means is both hilarious and magnificent at the exact same time. Brilliant match here with two of the top five greatest workers in company history and a must see match for any fans of both men. Eddie in 2003 man, that shit was something else. What a ride that covers every single aspect of what wrestling is about, a forgotten gem due to who is in it.



Spoiler: Stars for those who care



CM Punk Vs Ryback ~ *****

Eddie Guerrero/Tajiri Vs Charlie Haas/Shelton Benjamin ~ **** 1/2*

Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit ~ ******


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*The Big Show:*
w/Taker vs Kane & X-Pac - ***
vs Sabu - **
w/Jericho vs Cryme Tyme - ***
vs SES - 3/4*
vs Punk vs Cena: ***

*Rey Mysterio:*
vs Angle: ****1/4
w/Kidman & London vs Dudleys: **1/2
vs Eddie: ***3/4
vs Chavo I: **1/4
vs Chavo II: ***
vs Ziggler: ***3/4
vs Kane: ***1/4
vs Miz: ***

*Hulk Hogan:*
w/Savage vs Mega Bucks: ***1/4
w/Beefcake vs Savage & Zeus: 3/4*
vs Earthquake: *1/4
w/Warrior vs Slaughter, Mustafa & Adnan: *1/2
vs HBK: ***
vs Orton: **3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> _CM Punk Vs Ryback - Hell in a Cell 2012_
> 
> Thought that this was way better than everybody gives it credit for. It's essentially just a shittier take on the original GOAT match in Michaels-Taker from 15 years earlier with Punk trying to find out a way to escape a monster he is stuck inside of a cage with. This match shows us CM Punk as the innovator he is with the fire extinguisher spot on top of the many openings he creates to gain some offense on a man who outweighs him by probably 100 pounds (Punk is billed at 220 & Ryback is billed at 290, but there's 0 fucking chance that Punk is 220 pounds). They actually used the cell in this one as a psychological instrument, instantly catapulting it on top of alot of other cell matches that I've seen that are essentially STREETFIGHTS IN A CAGE. It wasn't amazing or anything, but I thought it was a pretty damn good contest for what it was and a really underrated bout. It was the CM Punk show at its finest.
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree with you more man about the Eddie vs Benoit match. One of my all time favorites from those two. I've said on here several times that Eddie is my personal favorite wrestler of all time, and his work in 2003-2004 is exactly why. No one plays the sleaze ball heel or under dog Babyface as good as Eddie. He can go back and forth from face to heel as well as any wrestler ever, and his ring work during this period is only matched by HBK in peak form. People have some how got it in their heads now that Eddie is overrated because he is dead, and that's the dumbest statement ever. Eddie at his peak has very few peers in the history of wrestling. So technically sound, such great psychology, and the ability to tell compelling stories in the ring set him apart from everyone else. Not to mention the unmatched charisma he just oozes every time he's on tv. Eddie doing his face style "lying cheating and stealing" is one of the more entertaining things wwe has ever come up with. Eddie always looked like he was having fun in the ring, and that in turn always comes through and makes me have fun while watching him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Eddie/Benoit match is in my sig if anyone needs it. Its a fave of mine too, as is the whole Vengeance 2003 PPV.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No shocker that SD's card was better than Raw's in 03 at all the times. Maybe Survivor Series being the exception.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> _CM Punk Vs Ryback - Hell in a Cell 2012_
> 
> Thought that this was way better than everybody gives it credit for. It's essentially just a shittier take on the original GOAT match in Michaels-Taker from 15 years earlier with Punk trying to find out a way to escape a monster he is stuck inside of a cage with. This match shows us CM Punk as the innovator he is with the fire extinguisher spot on top of the many openings he creates to gain some offense on a man who outweighs him by probably 100 pounds (Punk is billed at 220 & Ryback is billed at 290, but there's 0 fucking chance that Punk is 220 pounds). They actually used the cell in this one as a psychological instrument, instantly catapulting it on top of alot of other cell matches that I've seen that are essentially STREETFIGHTS IN A CAGE. It wasn't amazing or anything, but I thought it was a pretty damn good contest for what it was and a really underrated bout. It was the CM Punk show at its finest.
> ​




Nice to see someone else give Punk/Ryback Cell some credit. I've thought it was a good match since it first aired and still do, despite almost everyone else thinking it was a piece of shit. Not great or anything as you said, but a good bout showing CM Punk... and Paul Heyman in their glory.

"HE'S A HUMAN-BEING!" :lmao​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> That would be phenomenal. I really, really should go through all of those tag matches that ruled RAW in 2004 and watch 'em all again. That day I did with the Orton vs Edge series from '04 was legit. Not sure which year on the whole I loved more for RAW: 2004 or 2005.


Did you skip their May 10th match? Because that's another good one even if it's not as good Vengeance or the other two.

On the subject of 04 vs 05, I'd take 2004, specially for match quality. That says a lot because 2005 is one of the best in-ring years for WWE but that's also because Smackdown started picking it up that year after a boring 04. Also I thought match quality on Raw went down a little after the draft. They lost Christian, Orton, Benoit and later Jericho. Shelton became a jobber and his push went to Carlito and Masters instead.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2004 makes 2005 look like 1995 in comparison. Benoit running wild in the main event gave us classic after classic every week. A damn shame that he had to be demoted.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I was bored and decided to re-watch some Kurt Angle matches,

Kurt Angle vs Austin- Summerslam 2001
Rating: ★★★★3/4

Kurt Angle vs Edge- Backlash 2002
Rating: ★★★★

Kurt Angle vs John Cena- No Mercy 2003
Rating: ★★★★

Kurt Angle vs Kane- WrestleMania 18
Rating: ★★★ 

Kurt Angle vs Eddie Guerrero- Smackdown 9/2/04
Rating: ★★★3/4

Angle vs Edge is better than I remember it being. The Eddie/Angle match is great as well. Might even be their best match together IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 2004 makes 2005 look like 1995 in comparison. Benoit running wild in the main event gave us classic after classic every week. A damn shame that he had to be demoted.


Da heyull? 2005 was a classic year. Match quality was very, very close to 04's, and because they add to the show, 05's segments >>>> 04's.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Chris Benoit Vs Chavo Guerrero - Armageddon 2006

Why oh why did I pick a Chavo match on this show instead of the awesome ladder match? Oh well, this was actually okay I think. I didn't really like Chavo in this one apart from his selling of the germans and his sweet uppercut to the back of Benoit's head, but he did a serviceable job I guess. Benoit of course was on top of his game, with the ending sequence being sweet and the intensity of course being unmatched. Crazy suplexes and shit all around, Benoit's selling was superb on top of it. Actually, Chavo's bumping was really good but there were some very MEH moments. It's good, but nothing more. It's below Benoit's standards though, which goes to show you how great that fucker was.


William Regal/Chris Benoit Vs Ric Flair/Batista - Unforgiven 2004

Benoit, Regal, & FLAIR in the same match? How could this be bad (Batista?)? Flair puts his character in this first and foremost and takes the groundwork that Regal and Benoit lay to the next level. Thought Batista did great as the "unique" character in the match. Watching him manhandle Benoit & Regal was quite entertaining, but I thought that hands down Flair was the MVP for this one. Crazy to think how Benoit went from main eventing SUMMERSLAM one show, to defending fucking Eugene's honor in a tag team opener at Unforgiven, it's quite disgraceful actually. Oh well, at least the interactions between these four men are great and borderline AWESOME. Flair's schtick may annoy some people, but I don't even give a fuck I'm still a fan. Watch this tag as it's quite the great opener and the MOTN from Unforgiven 2004.


Hulk Hogan Vs Randy Orton - Summerslam 2006

Well, it looks as if I've stepped into a time machine, because this was fucking 1980s Hogan that I just watched with Orton playing the role of generic heel #63537262. It's your cookie cutter Hogan match with a little bit of Orton sprinkled in on the side; Orton beats him down, gets a convincing nearfall, then the Hogan comeback happens and it's over. Booking gaffes aside, this was okay I suppose as most Hogan formulaic matches are (I'm a fan, don't know why but from time to time I enjoy some Hogan nonsense just for the fuck of it). LEGEND KILLER might have deserved a little better than this though HMMMMM....



Spoiler: Stars for those who care



Chris Benoit Vs Chavo Guerrero ~ *** 1/4*

Chris Benoit/William Regal Vs Ric Flair/Batista ~ **** 1/2*

Hulk Hogan Vs Randy Orton ~ *** 1/4*







​


----------



## RKO1988 (Jul 25, 2008)

Raw2003 said:


> Anyone Else disgusteed with the over priced original wwf dvds? I had to pay over £40 for Wrestlemania 17 the other month, I know it's a really good Wrestlemania but to have normal ppv's from that time at the same type of price is utterly ridiculous.


Yeah you'd think they'd be cheaper now that WWE has the rights to use WWF back in old footage.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Been bored out of my mind today, and hear people talking about "future" stars vs "vets" so I looked up some of the current rosters ages, did you know that dolph ziggler is only a year younger than cm punk and that Dolph and Randy are the same age ? 

how many dvd do you have kok, been watching orton/benoit


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Love the main event training videos too:


Loved it too.

They should tackle this again with a feud that deserves that type of build. Its really cool to see matches being hyped up like this.

Oh and Rock should have never left this body size. He was athletically perfect this time in his life. Would have done wonders for his recent matches had he stayed like that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Been bored out of my mind today, and hear people talking about "future" stars vs "vets" so I looked up some of the current rosters ages, did you know that dolph ziggler is only a year younger than cm punk and that Dolph and Randy are the same age ?


And he's been in the company just as long. I remember a few years ago saying, "Ziggler is going to turn 30 soon. They need to push him" What is he now, like 33? I'm still wondering if he's ever going to get the big push. Guess he really is this generation's Mr. Perfect.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> William Regal/Chris Benoit Vs Ric Flair/Batista - Unforgiven 2004
> 
> Crazy to think how Benoit went from main eventing SUMMERSLAM one show, to defending fucking Eugene's honor in a tag team opener at Unforgiven, it's quite disgraceful actually.​


That's why I couldn't quite enjoy this match when I first saw it. It was such a joke that he didn't even get a PPV rematch and instead, had it on Raw then lost and moved on to become Eugene's whipping boy. If that wasn't bad enough, he was on Heat a week after losing the World Title, defeating Tyson Tomko.

Things could have been so much better on Raw in 2004 from a story perspective had they not rushed Orton's face turn and not made Eugene into a main event character.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I can _almost_ forgive Eugene being so prominent in 2004 just because of the glorious match that is Triple H vs. Eugene at Summerslam 2004. I cannot sing the praises of that match enough. Awesome. Absolutely awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> And he's been in the company just as long. I remember a few years ago saying, "Ziggler is going to turn 30 soon. They need to push him" What is he now, like 33? I'm still wondering if he's ever going to get the big push. *guess he really is a poor mans Mr. Perfect*.


Fixed 

Sorry I like the zig zag man, I really do, but he still has a ways to go before I compare him to Perfect. Perfect is a top 10 all time ring worker, and was arguably the best (along with Bret hart) from 88-91


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I can _almost_ forgive Eugene being so prominent in 2004 just because of the glorious match that is Triple H vs. Eugene at Summerslam 2004. I cannot sing the praises of that match enough. Awesome. Absolutely awesome.


YOU KNOW IT.

Best HHH performance since 2000.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Did you skip their May 10th match? Because that's another good one even if it's not as good Vengeance or the other two.
> 
> On the subject of 04 vs 05, I'd take 2004, specially for match quality. That says a lot because 2005 is one of the best in-ring years for WWE but that's also because Smackdown started picking it up that year after a boring 04. Also I thought match quality on Raw went down a little after the draft. They lost Christian, Orton, Benoit and later Jericho. Shelton became a jobber and his push went to Carlito and Masters instead.


I probably did. I know I watched the direct rematch following Vengeance and then their match in the latter portion of 2004.

From what I remember it's probably 2005 for me. Although 2004 is the booming RAW time and what I remember from there is nothing but wonderful matches and moments in bulk. Summer of 2005 was a good one for me. A lot of Matt Hardy moments popping up. Until I fully refresh myself, 2005 wins for now. Smackdown was just so bad in 2004 when it comes to a comparing as a whole type of thing.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I really want to watch ziggler/del rio payback again but its one of those matches you want to always think this highly of, and anything down would be heartbreaking, I know I sound like a bitch :lol


It gets better with re-watch, IMO. I notice new subtleties that I didn't notice before.

TheBeastIncarnate, I said this to you in reps when you first posted your thoughts about that match, but good review again!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> YOU KNOW IT.
> 
> Best HHH performance since 2000.


Better than HiaC vs Batista? I gotta see this match, I wasn't watching WWE so I missed the whole Eugene era. The stuff I've seen from 2003ish to 2008 has all been on DVD sets.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I really need to see HHH vs Eugene but I can't find it anywhere. I haven't searched for it in a whole though, maybe its up who knows?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I really need to see HHH vs Eugene but I can't find it anywhere. I haven't searched for it in a whole though, maybe its up who knows?


The full PPV is on YT -


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler is very close if not on the same level as Perfect in wwe world already, the comparisons dont bother me as their both two of the favs

I'll check out the hhh/eugene match as soon as I'm done with this awesome raw 04 benoit/orton that may be the best of their series


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Better than HiaC vs Batista? I gotta see this match, I wasn't watching WWE so I missed the whole Eugene era. The stuff I've seen from 2003ish to 2008 has all been on DVD sets.


It was before that match so I think he was saying up to that point in 2004. Which I can't really disagree with. I'm no Triple H fan, but the match vs Eugene is an absolute blast.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My favorite part of the HHH/Eugene storyline is still that fucking fantastic promo from Regal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goodness I don't recall it. :$


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm watching hhh/eugene promos right now and I havent laughed so hard in while, :lmao at HHH's asshole smile


Watching the regal one as we speak Brye


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

EDIT:

Ninja'd


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cause we speaking on Eugenne, can there be some appreciation over Regal & Eugene/Christian & Tomko from NYR '05?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ how shit Triple is at the start.

EVERY OUNCE OF VIOLENT VENOM THAT RUNS THROUGH MY VEINS. Regal is the best.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HUNTER HEARST HELMSLEY IS ALL ABOUT ALLITERATION.

:HHH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This guy sucks so much yet had a match I really liked vs Great Khali on PPV.

Everyone is right. I must be on drugs.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wow, because everyone talks about Regal's in-ring work I never knew he was a great promo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame nothing much came from that awesome Regal promo on HHH. I just seem to recall a match where Regal gets murdered . THAT'S TWO SEPARATE TIMES A HHH/REGAL FEUD DIDN'T HAPPEN.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that's what I remember from that night. Not the promo, only the "match" where Regal takes a licking with a sledgehammer and bleeds everywhere.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Didn't those two have the final First Blood match in company history?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. Cena vs JBL happened later that year at ONS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Which kinda sucked.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Why have WWE always treated Regal like a comedy jobber? I'm now midway through 2007 and he and Dave Taylor get killed by Kane and the Boogeyman in 2-3 minute squashes every week.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah. Cena vs JBL happened later that year at ONS.


Wasn't that at The Bash?

Also, i could have sworn HHH/Regal took place under the PG rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least Finlay had a strong run until he decided to call it quits in 2009. I'm trying to find all the positives I can.

-----------

No. It was ONS. GAB was the New York City Parking Lot Brawl. And Triple H vs Regal happened on the first RAW of 2008. Months before Cena vs JBL in June.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SummerSlam in a week :mark:

I haven't been this excited for a non-WrestleMania since MITB 2011. My expectations are so high that I'll be shocked beyond belief if either of the main events is a sub **** match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At least he gets to shine on NXT every now and then. Oh how I wish he didn't fail the wellness policy back in 08


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We'll always have him as Commissioner Regal in 2001 too. 

before he had to kiss Vince. (god dammit)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget his penis. We saw his penis at NM 06. REGAL PENIS~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

FUCK


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler for the WWE Intercontinental Championship- WWE Night of Champions 2009: ***1/2*

Really good match. Todd Grisham mentions that Rey didn't consider Dolph to be in his league and Dolph proves that he is by looking like a million bucks by being one step ahead. Good story of Dolph trying not only to be Intercontinental champion or that he is in Rey's league, but he is better than Rey by being dominant throughout most of the match. Whenever Rey would muster up some kind of fast offense, Dolph would shut him down with a big power move. It's a battle of youth vs. experience with experience winning with Rey getting the upper hand by catching Dolph off guard with a fast enziguri, 619 + splash combo with Rey picking up the victory. Dolph looks like a million bucks but the experience of Mysterio prevails in this damn good match.

*Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler for the WWE Intercontinental Championship- WWE Summerslam 2009: ***3/4*

A match that in my opinion is even better than their Night of Champions match. The match starts off with Dolph looking for quick pins, possibly showing frustration over the results of their previous encounter. Great back and forth action between the two with Rey utilizing his signature fast pace high flying style and Dolph using simple power moves and strikes in order to subdue Mysterio. There were some fun callbacks from their Night of Champions match such as Dolph avoiding the splash after the 619 that caused him to lose the previous match and trying to get a quick pin out of it. Dolph again looks like a million bucks, almost looking like he's going to get the victory on numerous occasions. The match ends with a great callback with Dolph trying to attempt a gut buster from the second rope (a move he successfully applied in the Night of Champions match) but Rey counters it into a big hurricanrana with Rey getting the pin and the victory. A really good, fun, back and forth match and a great opener.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Regal is such a solid worker, I loved seeing his stuff against CM Punk back in like 09 I think. It was right when I was getting back into watching Raw, and the work was really good from what I remember. I also remember Regal for making the 2 single greatest faces known to mankind. The first was the face he made after Jericho pissed in his Earl Grey, and the second in the match against Jericho under the "Dutchess of Queensbury" rules, when he ended upon the Dutchess' lap. Oh man Regal was tremendous. I need to find a picture of that face and make it my new avatar. Too bad TiVo didn't exist back then, I would have loved to pause the TV when he made that legendary face.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb @ Mysterio vs Ziggler from NOC praise.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Callamus said:


> Don't forget his penis. We saw his penis at NM 06. REGAL PENIS~!


That was his revenge for his Naked Mideon match from No Mercy 2000. No one should ever have to see that match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler and Mysterio had a really good match in 2010 on Smackdown too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

General Mysterio bossy nature. Having a good/great match with anyone who crosses his path. That series is exactly what Dolph needed to be credible. Great stuff.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What ! other ppl like the rey/ziggler noc aswell ? And yea share same thought process on Mysterio, one of the greats


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I can't remember the matches much tbh. I just remembered being pissed off at the time cause Ziggler never won the damn thing. It took him an entire year again to finally win the IC title. Imo, he had more momentum in '09 than he did when he won it on SD in 2010. 

The IC title scene was really hot in 2009. If it wasn't Jericho/Mysterio, it was Ziggler/Mysterio, Morrisson/Ziggler. So many great matches. Then The Chosen One got his hands on the title and that was it. It's like every time WWE needs to push someone, they think just putting the title on them is enough. It's the same thing with Ambrose right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always liked Mysterio vs Ziggler from NOC. Sure, SummerSlam is better, but for some reason that always had the first match get lost in the shuffle. The NOC match was far and away the best thing to come from that lackluster PPV. Without a doubt.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

I remember really liking their NOC match. Not as much as I liked their SummerSlam match tho. That's one of the GOAT PPV openers. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

its actually ran longer than the ss match , very fun nonetheless. @funnyfaces that rey/ziggler sd 2010 is indeed great but what Rey 2010 match wasnt ? Rey is all that is good in wrestling

2009 was extremely good for the IC, smackdown in general was


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything in 2009 on TV was pardon a bulk of shenanigans on RAW.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I can't remember the matches much tbh. I just remembered being pissed off at the time cause Ziggler never won the damn thing. It took him an entire year again to finally win the IC title. Imo, he had more momentum in '09 than he did when he won it on SD in 2010.
> 
> The IC title scene was really hot in 2009. If it wasn't Jericho/Mysterio, it was Ziggler/Mysterio, Morrisson/Ziggler. So many great matches. Then The Chosen One got his hands on the title and that was it. It's like every time WWE needs to push someone, they think just putting the title on them is enough. It's the same thing with Ambrose right now.


Agreed. I won't rant and get into it but suffice to say I think throwing out the u.s. title and the WWE title would be the best thing they could do. Elevate the WHC to be THE title like it was back in 04, and have the I.c. title be for the upper mid carders like ziggler, ADR, sheamus, etc. Not to sound like an old fart but back when Shawn and Bret and Perfect held the IC title, it meant something. This would force wwe creative to actually write coherent storyline and interesting feuds instead of having Dean Ambrose wrestle Kane for the prestige of being the US champ. What a joke.

Anywho, I forgot who told me they were a big fan of the Benoit vs Great Sasuke match but, holy hell were they right. All 3 of the NJPW bouts on the Hard Knocks set kick all kinds of ass, but this is by FAR the best one. It's the second best match on the entire set behind only the triple threat at Mania 20. I'm gonna need to watch some more Japanese stuff from this time because these sort of matches are exactly why I love watching wrestling. They are right at that balance of being an entertaining sport vs sports entertainment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple Threat doesn't touch Pegasus vs Sasuke for me and I think the Triple Threat is great in of itself. Super J Cup finals is nothing but perfection. Glad you dug it. That entire show is worth seeing, btw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> its actually ran longer than the ss match , very fun nonetheless. @funnyfaces that rey/ziggler sd 2010 is indeed great but what Rey 2010 match wasnt ? Rey is all that is good in wrestling
> 
> 2009 was extremely good for the IC, smackdown in general was


It's nice to see some love for Rey on here, that guy always gets overlooked, by me included, when people bring up the great ring workers for, the 2000s. He's had classic battles with just about every name star in the company.

My favorites would be: 

HH97' vs Eddie G
SS02' vs Angle
Vs Eddie on Smackdown in 05
Vs Jericho at ER 09'
2 out of 3 Falls vs Psicosis back in ECW


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Triple Threat doesn't touch Pegasus vs Sasuke for me and I think the Triple Threat is great in of itself. Super J Cup finals is nothing but perfection. Glad you dug it. That entire show is worth seeing, btw.


The drama/psychology/story telling/stage are what put the Triple Threat on top of the Sasuke match for me, not the ring work. If it was just based on ring work the match Benoit had with Sasuke might very well be the greatest match I've ever seen. It's just that good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was more than ring work for me when it comes to the Benoit vs Sasuke match. I prefer it on all aspects.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

why did I just think summerslam was in 12 minutes :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Love the Sasuke match but I'll go with the triple threat. Not only because Benoit considered it his best, but because it's also historic and one of the few matches I consider really special. Need to watch more of his Japan stuff, though. Sasuke is the only one I've seen and I think going five stars for it is not wrong at all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Super J Cup 1994 should be required viewing for every wrestling fan. GOAT event.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

Rewatching WM28 again for the first time since it happened.

The opening video was great.

Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus is up first. The crowd is totally hot too. A nice quick-paced match is just what this WM needs to get off to a great start...oh wait...

You all know the story. Sheamus wins to a decent pop in 18 seconds but it clearly killed a lot of the crowds momentum. I don't even mind Sheamus winning but it seemed everyone was psyched for a hot opener and was let down. -5 stars WWE.

We then get a backstage segment with Team Laurinaitis. Nothing special except making The Miz look like a chump.

Next up Orton vs Kane. I have st say this is one of the worst starts to a Wrestlemania ever. Going from the deflating opener to a match with two slow paced wrestlers was a dumb idea. It starts out pretty boring and the crowd is not having it. They are chanting for Daniel Bryan in the early going. This is on track for about two stars, but Orton hits a ddt that gets the crowd going. The action gets a bit harder and Kane hits a chokeslam after Orton misses the punt. The crowd is back now. Kane with with a chokeslam off the ropes and that endind sequenceand crowd revival puts this at 3.25 stars for me.

A dumb backstage segemt with Foley, Santino, and some guy from Deadliest Catch. I love product placement during a $60 PPV. Thankfully, Farooq saves this with a very appropriate, "Damn!"

Are there worse openings anyone can think of?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It was more than ring work for me when it comes to the Benoit vs Sasuke match. I prefer it on all aspects.


What really stood out to me about the Sasuke match and why I think it deserves ***** is how great the selling was, and how all the moves they did made perfect sense in the context of the match. Sasuke getting pound on and worked on by Benoit and worked over led him to try and do high risk high impact moves when he found openings. That's what ended up costing him in the end, after taking that hellacious bump doing the missile drop kick to the concrete on the outside, he crawls back in and after a failed pin attempt goes up top to try and put Benoit away for good. But Benoit springs up and ends up gut wrench super-plexing him for the win. None of the moves seemed out of place, the pacing was great, all the high spots where there for a purpose, and the match just flowed beautifully in general. I've gotta find this entire event somewhere this match just got me really interested in seeing more Japanese matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Looks like I have a Chris Benoit match to watch. 

@redskins, wait were you pumped up all day anxiously awaiting the PPV?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> @redskins, wait were you pumped up all day anxiously awaiting the PPV?


No, it was around 730ish and I for a second forgot it was next week and thought it was today and my heart stopped and I was rushing to find good streams but then I realized it was next week


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I find it so hard to read the Punk vs. Lesnar and Bryan vs. Cena threads without raging. All I see are mark wars and Attitude Era fans complaining about Punk and Bryan's lack of SIZE~! :vince5

Anyways, I think I'm gonna go rewatch Jericho and Rey's matches from 2009. I remember absolutely loving their match from The Bash.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

Cody vs Show for the IC title. Show wins the short match after a knockout punch. 2.75 stars. The crowd again chanted. For Bryan during the match and the pacing went a little back and forth due to the clash in size of the participants. I still don't consider this a WM moment for Show, because it was very forgettable.

Divas Tag Match. 2 stars. Decent divas match...nor too long. Maria is wicked hot. That is all.

Undertaker vs Triple H in a HITC w/ HBK as special ref. I have not watched this match since it aired and was worried it would not hold up. Boy, was I fucking wrong. This was the best storytelling WWE has to offer. All three men played their part perfectly. Everything they did made sense and the little touches added to this. Once Triple H hit the DDT on Taker followed by the spinebuster on the steps this match got going and never let up. The pacing was perfect. The shots were brutal. I honestly believed the streak would end when Taker got hit with the pedigree/sweet chin combo. I felt like I was back watching it live with the way it sucked me in. Triple H's chair shots to Taker on the ground were the best chairshots since the shots to the head were banned. The call back to Takers match with HBK at the end. HBK being concerned for both men in the match. It was the best use of a special referee I have ever seen. I dreamed of this match for a long time due to them both being kings of HITC and they did better than I ever imagined and they did it without turning the Cell into a spectacle.

I know many will disagree hard, but for me this is 5 stars. I wouldn't change a thing and I have no complaints. This is as good a match as you can get in the WWE. It is one of three five-star mania matches since I watched my first Mania, which was 15. This match, Hbk vs Taker 1, and Rock/Austin 2. This WM just got really good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No problem with anyone loving the WM 28 match. It's the 27 one that either fluctuates between brilliance and outright garbage depending on the view.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

Well, that's probably because it's kind of a spotfest. I love it though, just not near as much as the WM28 match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Have you watched the main event? :cena3 :rock


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh please. Everyone knows the real main event was this

unk5 :jericho


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker/HHH > Rock/Cena > Punk/Jericho

All three are great matches, though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Jericho>Taker/HHH>Rock/Cena @ WM28 for me. All great matches though.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

I am probably gonna finish this bad boy tomorrow.

Although team Teddy vs Team Laurinaitis was a solid 3 stars. Zach Ryder was doing work.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Wrestlemania 28 could have really been one of the best Mania's if the opener was given time. The 18 seconds thing was so pointless and was only served to bury Bryan. I know it helped him get over but it's weird how Brodus Clay was given time to dance and the rubbish divas tag team match had time but the world title match, which had serious potential as their later matches showed, was only given 18 seconds. If anything, the Big Show and Rhodes match was better suited to last 18 seconds because the storyline at the time was that Rhodes was showing embarrassing Big Show Mania moments so it would have been a great revenge if Big Show embarrassed Rhodes by knocking him out early and winning his first IC title.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Oliver-94 said:


> Wrestlemania 28 could have really been one of the best Mania's if the opener was given time. The 18 seconds thing was so pointless and was only served to bury Bryan. I know it helped him get over but it's weird how Brodus Clay was given time to dance and the rubbish divas tag team match had time but the world title match, which had serious potential as their later matches showed, was only given 18 seconds. If anything, the Big Show and Rhodes match was better suited to last 18 seconds because the storyline at the time was that Rhodes was showing embarrassing Big Show Mania moments so it would have a great revenge if Big Show embarrassed Rhodes by knocking him out early and winning his first IC title.


Yeah. You take the 2 out of 3 falls match they had, put it at Mania, and you've got 3 ****+ matches, not to mention a great main event. WM28 is still probably the best Mania since 24. In the last 10 years, I'd put it above 22, 23 (maybe), 25, 26 (maybe), 27, and 29.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Punk/Jericho > Taker/HHH > Rock/Cena.

But I'll give it to Rock/Cena, it wasn't the worst match on the show. Bryan/Sheamus was.  Rock/Cena is slightly above it. :side:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Brye said:


> Punk/Jericho > Taker/HHH > Rock/Cena.
> 
> But I'll give it to Rock/Cena, it wasn't the worst match on the show. Bryan/Sheamus was.  Rock/Cena is slightly above it. :side:


This. I can't call Rock/Cena great, but Punk/Jericho shits on it no matter how you look at it. Since I'm such a massive Trips mark, I'm not sure what I put first, the HIAC or WWE title match. I've watched the HIAC match about 5 times, and I get emotional every time. Maybe I'm a sucker. Don't care though. Punk/Jericho, for me, takes time to get going, but I love it nonetheless.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> This. I can't call Rock/Cena great, but Punk/Jericho shits on it no matter how you look at it. Since I'm such a massive Trips mark, I'm not sure what I put first, the HIAC or WWE title match. I've watched the HIAC match about 5 times, and I get emotional every time. Maybe I'm a sucker. Don't care though. Punk/Jericho, for me, takes time to get going, but I love it nonetheless.


The stipulation added like 4 minutes before the match added quite a bit to it, imo.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The DQ stipulation was only used in like the opening minutes IIRC.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

PGSucks said:


> I find it so hard to read the Punk vs. Lesnar and Bryan vs. Cena threads without raging. All I see are mark wars and Attitude Era fans complaining about Punk and Bryan's lack of SIZE~! :vince5
> 
> Anyways, I think I'm gonna go rewatch Jericho and Rey's matches from 2009. I remember absolutely loving their match from The Bash.


I stay far away from any other thread most of the time. This thread is the only place on the forum left that, well, doesn't suck. This thread is what the entire forum should be all about, a place to discuss wrestling. Not argue over why the lightbulbs in the Attitude Era were better than today's.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You know I swear if only even half of some decent matches had the crowd reactions both cena/rock, It would go up **

Dont worry IWW, I loved HIAC as well and I'm anything but a HHH mark. I think Punk/Jericho had the WORST placement ever. It or the taker match should of opened


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Jericho's placement was perfect if it wasn't going to go on last. Crowd wasn't electric during the entire duration, but meh. It's WM inside of a large arena following the bulk of the event. Doesn't surprise me when fans aren't hot during all aspects. And more importantly the match didn't suffer in the slightest.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Punk/Jericho >	Rock/Cena >	HHH/Taker for me. I enjoyed Cena/Rock I. Almost 4 stars for me, but they're WM 29 match is nothing special at all.

To me, HHH/Taker III was the worst of they're WM matches. Wasn't bad but I feel it's very overrated. That sad DX finisher didn't get me worried at all. They WOULD NEVER end the streak that way.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I never understand when ppl say "it didn't make me believe the streak was going to end" the streak Will NEVER end it's undertaker"s thing thery are not letting him lose so the suspense is already gone so don't bank on that. I personally enjoyed the HIAC


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never let a fact like that get in the way of any enjoyment I'll have with an Undertaker match at WM. Didn't expect Punk to beat him this year yet the match had some good nearfalls and moments which could have made you think otherwise. It was a great match. Again, the only thing that truly matters at the end of the day.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

John Cena is the only one that I will ever believe that is truly a threat to ending the streak.

Cena vs. Taker has potential to be the second biggest match of all time. The first being Hogan/Andre of course.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of all time? No way.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

If they played their cards right, then yes.

Let's be honest. Taker IS Wrestlemania now. He's had the match of the night 7 Manias in a row and his streak is a humongous kayfabe accomplishment. You have John Cena who has been the face of the industry for nearly a decade now who has not lost a match cleanly in God knows how long and has never submitted. Cena would be a true tweener by default because no one boos The Undertaker. I'm not talking about a "tweener" Cena, I'm talking about a REAL tweener. Not that "Let's Go Cena, Cena sucks!" crap. 

The match sells itself and even I'd buy the show to see it, and I've never ordered a PPV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still not buying into it. Also b/c I'm not even sure how so many people think this match is actually going to happen. Feels like the biggest bit of hearsay by one person only to blow up at the thought of it once others caught wind. Not even going to touch the fallacy discussion that is "John Cena going heel". That's been done to death. The death of the topic was reanimated, zombified, came back to terrorize us all, killed again and hopefully stays dead.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Cena wouldn't have to turn heel. He could just stay a tweener throughout the feud and either he ends the streak or Taker beats him in his last match and rides off into the sunset. Then Cena could resume with his lame face shtick that's been stale for 5 years too long.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's a poster on this site called TL Hopper. This is amazing.

Now inspired to listen to his theme song from 1996. Ok, maybe just watch this rad tag team match instead:






FREDDIE JOE FLOYD too.


----------



## the frenchise (Oct 6, 2006)

I rewatched WM 28 not so long ago and for me it's HHH/Taker > Punk/y2J > Cena/Rock

I really think Cena/Rock could have been absolutely awesome, the first part (until the first AA i think) is very cool. But after that there are some unbearable boring moments that are unacceptable for wrestlers of this caliber ( top rope spot, sharpshooter spot, stfu, rocky doing i don't know why on the outside). 

HHH/Taker is perfect in my mind.

Punk/Y2J is an amazing match. Good storytelling, Y2J is stiff, Punk is emotional and the last minutes are priceless. But there is like 5 minutes quite boring.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Taker/HHH WM28 match really needs a rewatch from me later, havnt seen it since it happened live, I'll see if it holds up for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's fun. Either the way the story was presented was too cheesy for you or you enjoyed it. Not a great match the entire way, but I still like it. Undertaker dominating the first ten minutes = :ron1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/HHH WM 28 will forever hold a special place in the hole in my chest where my heart is supposed to be. Fuck the haters, fuck them with something sharp and pointy.

Is SS next Sunday btw? I don't pay much attention to the dates and shit. If it is, they certainly fucked over the WHC feud didn't they? Way to get people excited for what could potentially be a great match. Oh hey Christian out of nowhere is the #1 contender. LET'S IGNORE HIM THE ENTIRE BUILDUP TO SUMMERSLAM. You useless fucking cunts, creative. UK peoples, is SS on Sky Spots or Box Office? If it's Box Office I might stay up and watch it live.

Anyone seen that new NWA/JCP documentary from Highspots? Was posted on XWT last week or something. It's really good. Also, did anyone get that ECW documentary that was on kickstarter/some other funding site? I *think* Platt might have donated to it or something so he'll probably have it. Any good? Just ordered it from the America lands.

Just got the best of Undertaker Vs Batista in the post this morning. Got the best of Undertaker Vs Batista on Saturday in the post too. 2 different versions. The one onSat just has some PPV matches, this one I got today has some PPV matches AND the SD cage match. That makes 9 Undertaker DVD/Blurays in my collection now . Still awaiting one more DVD I think.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Cena beating Taker at Mania and ending with his signature troll smile will provide the single greatest meltdown reaction in History. I'd have my popcorn ready.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It's on Sky Box Office. The four 'big' PPVs are always on Box Office unfortunetly. 

Last time Mania was on Sky Sports was 2004.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Undertaker/HHH WM 28 will forever hold a special place in the hole in my chest where my heart is supposed to be. Fuck the haters, fuck them with something sharp and pointy.
> 
> Is SS next Sunday btw? I don't pay much attention to the dates and shit. If it is, they certainly fucked over the WHC feud didn't they? Way to get people excited for what could potentially be a great match. Oh hey Christian out of nowhere is the #1 contender. LET'S IGNORE HIM THE ENTIRE BUILDUP TO SUMMERSLAM. You useless fucking cunts, creative. UK peoples, is SS on Sky Spots or Box Office? If it's Box Office I might stay up and watch it live.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's officially less than a week. :mark:

oh that NWA doc is new? I should probably go nab that atm then. Though about it regardless but had to make sure I get such vital wrestling shows like this week's superstars or TNA ONO: Ten. :|


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oliver-94 said:


> It's on Sky Box Office. The four 'big' PPVs are always on Box Office unfortunetly.
> 
> Last time Mania was on Sky Sports was 2004.


Good good, with it being on Box Office I can order it and watch it live. I don't subscribe to Sky Sports so I'd have to download the show in the morning if it was on that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You know who we should talk about more here? Curt f'n Hawkins. He's so much better than Ryder tbh.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I watched the Taker/Edge HIAC the other day and they showed Ryder/Hawkins in the back. I didn't recognise them. Last I remember of Hawkins was when he turned up to lol at Slater after he got jacked by Florida at Mania 28.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or... we could ignore both of them because they are both terrible and deserve to be off the shows all the time.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#WWWYKI


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I never understand when ppl say "it didn't make me believe the streak was going to end" the streak Will NEVER end it's undertaker"s thing thery are not letting him lose so the suspense is already gone so don't bank on that. I personally enjoyed the HIAC




I wouldn't say that, The professional thing for Taker to do is give someone the honor of ending the streak. It won't hurt his legacy IMO. Timers where I though Undertaker was losing at WM: 

Vs Kane WM 14
Vs Orton WM 21
Vs HHH WM 27 (during the match)
Vs HBK WM 26

Those 4 I thought taker was in danger of losing at WM. HHH with 3 pedigrees was enough, but then the tombstone? I was shitting my pants.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll let this speak for itself:


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*John Morrison (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler for the WWE Intercontinental Championship- WWE Hell in a Cell 2009: ***3/4*

I really enjoyed this match. It's a clash of styles with John Morrison's high flying versus Dolph Ziggler's mat game. Dolph gets the advantage by grounding Morrison throughout the match. Dolph's personality shines through as whenever he hits a move, he would talk trash to Morrison and I felt that it adds to Morrison's comeback. Great back and forth action between the two with the both of them looking like stars, especially Ziggler as he did some neat counters such as countering Morrison's Starship Pain into a reverse powerslam. Dolph's cockiness gets the better of him when he talks trash while attempting a Zig-Zag, but Morrison blocks it, hits a knee to the face and Starship Pain for the victory. A really good match featuring two young studs just duking it out for the gold.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's important to me to have some doubt that Taker will lose because it's the entire premise of the match. The match is based on whether or not the opponent can end the streak. I know it's not important to everybody but it matters to me. There has to be a moment where they make you think, 'Holy fuck this is really it!' That's why the feud this year sucked balls. It wasn't even about the streak. It just became another match where the good guy got revenge on the bad guy. I wasn't too keen on that. If a Cena/Taker match ever happens, you KNOW that shit is going to get real because everybody is going to have that feeling in the back of their head that Cena will take it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I could watch anything SD 2009 related over and over again. If I had the time and patience I'd have put together a "Best of the IC title 2009 pack" on XWT. You know, if there isn't one already because dammit there needs to be one!

I saw that Cal mentioned Christian on the previous page. Not only has there been zero build, we got the match on free TV.

Oh and Baretta/Hawkins :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My SD 09 downloads finished last night, so I have the entire year on my PC now :mark:. Along with ECW 09 too (should like, get back to my reviews for that too I guess lol) that I've had for a while now. Just gone through some random eps to see what's on there, and I like, totally forgot Rey and Undertaker had a match on the last SD of the year :mark:. Only remember their 03 match and then 2010 matches (RR and SD). There's a bunch of Finlay Vs Knox matches too at one point in the year :mark:. Only remember their Superstars matches so looking forward to seeing them. Might look into downloading all of Superstars of 09 as well now lol . Fuck Raw .

EDIT: Aaaaaand Superstars 09 is downloading :mark:.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

About the Cena/Taker discussion, I really believe that Cena is the only guy who can end the Streak. I will enter into a dangerous territory now and say that it would be the best heel turn for him . No seriously, heard a lot of people saying that this year at Mania was the perfect moment to turn him heel, but just imagine Cena ending the Streak by cheating. You would need protection for your ears because of the boos


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I had the entire Summer of SD '09 on DVD. Back then they were on My Network which I don't have. Used to get Saturday morning from a local DVD store.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The more I think about it, the more I feel that Cena will end the streak. Think of it this way; HBK ended Ric Flair's career and Taker ended HBK's career so it feels only fair in the WWE's eyes to let a big star end the streak. I know it's become a cliché to say that Cena has achieved literally everything (he has won mid card titles, tag titles, Royal Rumbles, MITB, has gotten big wins and has over 10 world titles) but WWE might still let Cena end the streak.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

All I need for a streak match is a great feud and an awesome match. Real belief that Taker has a decent chance of losing is a nice plus, but it's just that, a plus. Taker/Punk's build up was good and the match was outstanding and it's a big part of the reason I think so highly of the program as a whole (it also helps that I mark for 'em both).

That being said, Taker/Cena on paper does intrigue me more than any other streak match on paper since all we can go out is how much of a chance Cena has at ending the streak. However if the feud and match end up sucking, then I wouldn't give a rats ass how much of a shot Cena has at ending the streak unless he actually does.

SD 09's Summer with the Punk/Jeff feud is my favorite part of the year. Fantastic heel work by Punk, and it's funny because normally in a situation like this, you'd think it's the guy that doesn't take drugs is the good guy. But Punk's character was such a super douche about it that it didn't matter what was right or wrong, what harmed your body/career or not, his work just superseded all of that. 

I also enjoyed Taker's title run that year and while admittedly it wasn't great, I'll defend it to the grave for what it was and that was a good, credible reign for Taker that he deserved for 7 years to that point. Seeing Taker walk around as the champ for months was great and I knew once HBK made the challenge for Taker at Mania that Taker had no shot of taking the belt into that, so I enjoyed it even more, as much as I could, from that point on knowing it would more than likely be his last reign as champ ever. It ended on my birthday as well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm straight edge and I hated Punk. He really dicked it up. 

Btw, does anyone remember a main event on SD with Jeff Hardy vs Kidd/Smith? It was a handicap match I believe.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I adored Undertaker's run as champ in 09, mainly because I FINALLY got to see him live for the first time at a UK SD taping AND he was champ at the time .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

We all know that if there *has* to be someone to end the streak... I mean it's an *absolute must* or the world explodes, it should be Mr. Sandow. :sandow


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

About to watch Rock/HHH Iron Man match  Live the build up promo, I don't think I've watched the match in must be 10 years I dunno, remember fuck all lol.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

IM GOING TO WRESTLEMANIA XXX THEY BETTER FUCKING BOOK CENA/TAKER OR I WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON THE INTERNET

:vince2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Has any crowd ever actually riot? :lol


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

I truly think the ECW One Night Stand 2006 crowd would have if Cena won. Thats the only crowd that I believed had the balls to do it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm not even joking I got worried for a bit when Cena did the People's Elbow on Rock at Mania 28 lol. Seriously. If he had have won that match I was getting the hell outta dodge and FAST!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One of these days, WWE should return to the Hammerstein Balroom and have Cena 18 Seconds RVD, just to see the reaction :vince4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Has any crowd ever actually riot? :lol


Go watch MitB '11 again and tell me that crowd wouldn't explode if Vince had actually screwed Punk out of the title. That Chicago crowd might very well have rioted. You wanna see a riot? Have WWE book "Thrice in a Lifetime" Rock vs Cena to main event Mania 30. The Internet might literally explode. Or go check out the heat that JBL used to get at events held in Latin communities. If JBL were to go to El Paso right now and beat Rey Mysterio to a bloody pulp, he might not get out alive hahaha. JBL was the best, any discussion of the top 5-10 heels of all time HAS to include him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

none of you know anything about hammerstein ballroom, I live 20 mins from there

Watching random summerslam matches, cena/batista rn


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena/Batista from Summerslam is honestly one of my favorite matches of all time. Good 15 minutes of smashmouth offense from both. Taking each others' best shots.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> none of you know anything about hammerstein ballroom, I live 20 mins from there


That's pretty cool, how are the crowds live (supposing you've been there in a wrestling show)?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Been watching a lot of SS's myself lately. Cena/Batista is very awesome. My 2 top rated SS matches, from the shows I've watched mind you, are both ladder matches. I have Cena/Orton 07, Punk/Hardy 09, Trips/Brock 12 and most of 06 left to watch. Plenty of stuff to fill out the rest of the week. Fuck it I'm just too excited right now. Booked for Mania and I don't care. Raw could be shit later and I wouldn't care. I don't think it will be though. Lots of hype and...

:brock

is in the house which automatically makes it better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

BROCK is confirmed for tonight? :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> That's pretty cool, how are the crowds live (supposing you've been there in a wrestling show)?


Awesome, Ive been to mostly concerts, but its so freakin loud, its a smaller venue but sound reaches EVERYWHERE



The Lady Killer said:


> Cena/Batista from Summerslam is honestly one of my favorite matches of all time. Good 15 minutes of smashmouth offense from both. Taking each others' best shots.


Its starting off pretty good, I liked the pre match promo, its cool how similar their careers were


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The arena is advertising him yeah. It's also a cert that he'll come out during the Punk/Heyman match. When Heyman has a match, somebody interferes. 

:heyman vs. :vince3 = :brock and :HHH2.

:heyman vs. unk2 = :brock for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After the ending of the Rock/HHH Iron Man match, im kinda surprised Rock and Undertaker didn't have a match at the next PPV, pity (well in one way lol) that HBK wasn't ready to return, would have been awesome to see Taker and Rock go after him lol.

Loved the match though, great structure to it overall, ending slightly marred it a tad, but hey seeing Taker return like that :mark: .


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

zep81 said:


> After the ending of the Rock/HHH Iron Man match, im kinda surprised Rock and Undertaker didn't have a match at the next PPV, pity (well in one way lol) that HBK wasn't ready to return, would have been awesome to see Taker and Rock go after him lol.
> 
> Loved the match though, great structure to it overall, ending slightly marred it a tad, but hey seeing Taker return like that :mark: .


Yeah, it's kinda funny how Taker cost Rock the match and Rock was like "meh, whatever".

Then again, the only thing I do remember from between JD 00 and KOTR 00 was Taker almost running over Vince and Taker/Rock looking like they were gonna have a match, before attacking the whole McMahon-Helmsly faction.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Summerslam '06 id a pretty decent PPV. Foley/Flair was great despite being so short. McMahons/DX was surprisngly fun and I found Cena/Edge to be good as well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, I see this thread is kinda dead so I'mma bring up a topic. The Miz. What do you guys think of his in-ring work. I mean he's no Guerrero or Benoit but his psychology is pretty sound imo. Not a bad worker and can deliver some pretty good TV matches and even PPV matches if given the chance. I don't think he'll be able to pull off the main event style well but he's a good undercard worker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Yeah, it's kinda funny how Taker cost Rock the match and Rock was like "meh, whatever".
> 
> Then again, the only thing I do remember from between JD 00 and KOTR 00 was Taker almost running over Vince and Taker/Rock looking like they were gonna have a match, before attacking the whole McMahon-Helmsly faction.


Yeah, i was going to say i'm sure Rock/Taker teamed up not long after, it was indeed at KOTR.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, I see this thread is kinda dead so I'mma bring up a topic. The Miz. What do you guys think of his in-ring work. I mean he's no Guerrero or Benoit but his psychology is pretty sound imo. Not a bad worker and can deliver some pretty good TV matches and even PPV matches if given the chance. I don't think he'll be able to pull off the main event style well but he's a good undercard worker.


He sucks. His punches are legit the worst, and nothing he does looks like it hurts.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I just can't get past Miz's abomination of a character to enjoy anything he does in the ring. He has had some decent matches I suppose, but nothing near a **** performance from what I can recall.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> He sucks. His punches are legit the worst, and nothing he does looks like it hurts.


 Most of his moveset is targetting at the head. Whether it's the kick to the head or the running knee lift, DDT or SCF. Still not the worst wrestler though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Miz is horrible, but I think someone backstage has finally figured it out, He is not a Heel or Face, just a annoying human being on the TV. The only time I remotely cared for him is when he was with Rtruth and that was a while ago. he just tries to hard to be important but nobody cares and with Total divas we have are reality tv stuff

I can count on one hand his good-great matches and the workers he was with are great and gone


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Miz is probably the one person I've never liked. AT ALL. His personality is what I dislike most, and that makes it difficult for me to try to enjoy his ring work, which isn't the worst they've got. 

He's got a match with Bryan for the US title (a PPV later in 2010, maybe Bragging Rights) which I think is supposed to be good, probably because of Bryan, but his match with Rey Mysterio for the WWE title the week after MITB is pretty good. I had that about ***1/2-3/4.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Miz more than pulled his weight in the Bryan match. If anything, I thought Miz performed better than Bryan. I don't think he's great, but the hate he gets is a generally unwarranted and over the top.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Had a dream that the main event of Wrestlemania was Cena Vs HHH Vs Daniel Bryan & HHH tapped out in the middle of the ring to win the WWE Championship.

The fuck?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

its NOC IWW, but yea the noc match with dbryan, FCA with JOMO and the very nice wwe title match with rey in 2011 are the only good matches I can think of


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FCA w/Morrison was pretty good, tbh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Miz is awful, he should be used only on Superstars and house shows,I can't think of one single good quality about him. Miz main eventing Wrestlemania (holy shit that sounds incredible to say) is the single biggest dumbass move in the history of the WWE, and believe me WWE has done a lot of dumb shit. The only good thing about the Miz's career is that by him main eventing mania, he lit a fire in Punk and is atleast partly responsible for Punk cutting "the promo" and turning into the 2nd biggest full time star the company has. That bodes pretty badly for Miz though, if the one good thing he accomplished in WWE was pissing off another superstar.

We need a new subject, I refuse to waste another moment thinking or talking about Miz.....

What's your guys opinion on Ambrose-singles competitor? I see a lot of love for him on this forum, and I admittedly loved a lot of what he did with The Shield, but he seems to have fallen flat and or have crappy booking since he started wrestling singles. Rollins almost seems like he'd be able to handle being a singles guy better than Ambrose right now. Without a lot of time to cut promos it's hard to get the full Dean Ambrose experience.

Edit- I just got the Satans Prison set that has all the EC matches on it from 2002-2010. I already watched 2002 which everyone said is the GOAT EC match, and indeed it was fantastic. What are some of the other good ones? I don't have time to watch it all the way through right now I just wanna cherry pick the 2-3 best ones.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ambrose would likely get over fine as a singles wrestler based on his ability on the mic. He would get his feuds over well. Rollins would excel because he's so talented in the ring. Like Daniel Bryan has, though, he would need to work on his character/mic skills.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who has Ambrose faced so far in singles matches? Undertaker, which was really good given the time. Kane... which was meh, and then Kofi Kingston. Other than Undertaker he hasn't really had anyone decent to work with, unless I'm forgetting about someone/not watched some random Main Event/Superstars match etc.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Who do you guys think is the best in ring competitor from the shield? 

Id go with Rollins. Very face paced and never seems to slow down. I'm very interested in when the shield breaks up to see Rollins go to work in the singles division. Wwe is REALLY lacking in the high flyer main event level. Here's how id rank the shield members in ring ability so far:

1. Rollins

2. Reigns. Looks like a solid powerhouse

3. Ambrose. I haven't been impressed yet. Must show me more.... His match with Kane at payback was awful.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rollins by far.

Reigns I could see rounding into a Batista-type in-ring talent. He's improving all the time.

Ambrose is fine - his mannerisms are what puts him over more than anything, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Who has Ambrose faced so far in singles matches? Undertaker, which was really good given the time. Kane... which was meh, and then Kofi Kingston. Other than Undertaker he hasn't really had anyone decent to work with, unless I'm forgetting about someone/not watched some random Main Event/Superstars match etc.


You nailed it, I can't think of any others. The undertaker match didn't wow me but it didn't really have the time to. The match with Kane was just not good, and then there was Kofi. I don't know why creative put him on his own and put the US title on him just to bury him. I don't get what their thinking was.

Again, Anyone got any tips on the best EC match from 2002-2010 other than 2002?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

2005 is the GOAT EC match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rollins is the top guy in the ring out of The Shield.

Off topic: WWE section is giving me a goddamn headache today.

Edit: agreed with Greg.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

What I love about the Shield is how equal all three members really seem. They have stronger attributes than others, but all around they feel... even. Ambrose is an excellent mic worker, knows his character and plays it to perfection. Rollins is the work horse, and exciting to watch wrestle. Reigns is just a beast and gives off an aura of pure intensity anywhere he goes and in whatever he does.

If you could combine the three of them into one wrestler, that wrestler be damn near perfect in every aspect of the business.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> 2005 is the GOAT EC match.


Thank you very much I am going to watch that right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2005 Elimination Chamber = :mark:

Awesome from beginning to end with a great line-up.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Story of the 2005 chamber match is the best, too, imo. Building of Batista and subsequent disintegration of Evolution was awesome. 

Plus, TEN TIMES THE KING~! :HHH

edit - Agreed w/Sandrone on his analysis of The Shield. They complement each other's strengths nicely.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I use to have ec 2005 around the "five mark" I love it, need to see it again, the who's who of the wwe except Cena were involved somehow, I want to give a shootout to the 2009 sd ec IMO the second best


----------



## The Cult (Jul 21, 2012)

Here's a question for you guys, name your favourite WWE PPV for every year since 2000.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

2005 is definitely the GOAT chamber match. Every match that Rey Mysterio has been in (I think two) are fucking sweet, and their so good because he made them good

Fav PPV every year since 2000? Damn what a question.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hole-eeeeeeee-shit Benoits chops in this 05 EC Match are just brutal. I don't think I've ever seen naitch or funker deliver chops that echo like the ones Benoit laid on Jericho were. I'm literally sitting in my room giggling like a school girl at the sound of them. Great match so far, Edge's door just opened. Still waiting for the Legend Killer and the Animal to make their appearances


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Who do you guys think is the best in ring competitor from the shield?
> 
> Id go with Rollins. Very face paced and never seems to slow down. I'm very interested in when the shield breaks up to see Rollins go to work in the singles division. Wwe is REALLY lacking in the high flyer main event level. Here's how id rank the shield members in ring ability so far:
> 
> ...


I'd also give Rollins the edge but they're all great in their own ways. Ambrose may be the least impressive of the trio in terms of execution but he has the best character work of the bunch and is a really good bumper as well. Rollins is the best bumper and athlete. Reigns is the guy I'm most looking forward to seeing break out as a singles competitor in the future. He's looked like a proper big man capable of having good matches with opponents of any size. As a unit they're just fantastic and their WWE run has been ridiculously good so far.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2000 - Fully Loaded

2001 - Wrestlemania 

2002 - Summerslam

2003 - Wrestlemania 

2004 - Summerslam (First show I ever watched all the way through)

2005 - Vengeance

2006 - Wrestlemania 

2007 - No Mercy

2008 - No Mercy

2009 - Umm..... Rumble... Maybe? ... No.... No idea....

2010 - Wrestlemania

2011 - Summerslam/MITB

2012 - Extreme Rules

2013 - Wrestlemania


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just off top of head (really grasping at straws):

2000 = idk
2001 = Mania 17
2002 = Summerslam/S. Series
2003 = Mania 19
2004 = Summerslam probably? Or Backlash
2005 = Vengeance
2006 = Mania 22
2007 = Backlash or S. Series (Cyber Sunday wasn't bad either)
2008 = No Way Out/No Mercy
2009 = idk
2010 = Mania 26
2011 = MITB
2012 = Extreme Rules
2013 = MITB


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From the ones where I've seen every or most PPVs: (or at least remember what I've seen)

2002 - SummerSlam
2003 - Vengeance
2004 - Backlash
2005 - Vengeance
2006 - No Way Out
2007 - Backlash
2011 - Money in the Bank
2012 - Extreme Rules
2013 - Money in the Bank


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

From the ones I've seen

2000- royal rumble (strictly for the 5 star affair between foley and trips
2001- Summerslam (angle vs stone cold is amazing)
2002- def Summerslam
2003- wrestlemania 19
2004- wrestlemania 20
2005- mania 21
2006- dunno
2007- dunno
2008- No Mercy
2009- dunno
2010- extreme rules
2011-MiTB 
2012- extreme rules
2013- Summerslam? Mania, rumble, payback, MiTB have all been less than impressive


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> From the ones where I've seen every or most PPVs: (or at least remember what I've seen)
> 
> 2002 - SummerSlam
> 2003 - Vengeance
> ...


Vengeance 2003 over Mania??? I absolutely love the Benoit vs Guerrero match but I didn't realize the rest of the event was that good.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't really like Mania 19 _that_ much. Rock/Austin is a classic and the rest of the card is great or at least decent too but I just don't really consider any of the matches outside of Rock/Austin much of a favorite. Vengeance had Benoit/Eddie, it also had Cena/Taker and a pretty good triple threat in the main event.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't really like Mania 19 _that_ much. Rock/Austin is a classic and the rest of the card is great or at least decent too but I just don't really consider any of the matches outside of Rock/Austin much of a favorite. Vengeance had Benoit/Eddie, it also had Cena/Taker and a pretty good triple threat in the main event.




Jericho/HBK >	Rock/Austin IMO. But both were best matches of the night and I actually enjoyed Hogan/McMahon. Brock/Angle bored me too tears. Disappointing ME IMO.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

FluxCapacitor said:


> If anything, I thought Miz performed better than Bryan. I


No WAY.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/Orton 6/17 is an absolute nothing match. Hoping the rest of the series is better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's not the street fight is it?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

PPVs of the Year for what I remember:

2001- WM17
2002- SS
2003- WM19
2005- Vengeance
2006- No Way Out
2007- Um... Royal Rumble I think.
2008- WM24
2011- MITB
2012- Extreme Rules
2013 (so far)- Payback


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That's the match that was stopped. Yeah, it sucks, but they delivered on Smackdown that week and the Raw street fight the week after.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh right. Yeah, the next two were good (street fight was great).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SD match wasn't that good to me. Not bad, but could've been better.

Street Fight is where it's at with those two. Great match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

None of Bryan/Ortons did anything for me. SD one was solid but wouldn't place anywhere if I made a best matches of 2013 list. And I hated Bryan shrugging off the barricade move like it didn't mean anything. Thought the street fight was a pretty standard WWE weapons brawl which I don't care for.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll say it again, the dbryan/orton sd match is the only good one, the rest can go too hell


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah just watched the SD 6/21 match. That was good. Infinitely better than the first meeting. Street fight up next.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't recall that Bryan/Orton Sd match at all. I know I enjoyed the hell out of the No DQ where he made Orton submit. That was the match that solidified Bryan and started the huge wave momentum he's now riding. I don't think anyone can argue that. You can talk about the great matches he's been having all year and before, but the match that really launched him to the next level was that one.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't really like Mania 19 _that_ much. Rock/Austin is a classic and the rest of the card is great or at least decent too but I just don't really consider any of the matches outside of Rock/Austin much of a favorite. Vengeance had Benoit/Eddie, it also had Cena/Taker and a pretty good triple threat in the main event.


Haha you're crazy man, obviously it's all opinion but Jericho vs Michaels was easily the match of the night in my mind, and I LOVED Austin vs Rock too. But the psychology and story telling for hbk vs Jericho really put it over the top for me, it's a ****1/2 for me. Rock vs Austin was **** and Lesnar vs Angle was prolly the same or ***3/4. Such a good event, it's second only to 17 on my favorite Mania list. WM7 was amazing as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Haha you're crazy man, obviously it's all opinion but Jericho vs Michaels was easily the match of the night in my mind, and I LOVED Austin vs Rock too. But the psychology and story telling for hbk vs Jericho really put it over the top for me, it's a ****1/2 for me. Rock vs Austin was **** and Lesnar vs Angle was prolly the same or ***3/4. Such a good event, it's second only to 17 on my favorite Mania list. WM7 was amazing as well.


I don't deny it's a _great_ match but we're talking _favorites_. Just because something is great doesn't mean it's among my favorites. My ratings for Austin/Rock and HBK/Jericho are the opposite of yours, 4 & a half for the former and 4 for the latter. Lesnar/Angle is good too and hell, even Vince/Hogan.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Give me Austin/Rock over Jericho/HBK. Both are great matches but Austin/Rock is such a classy match. To me, it's the best of the trilogy.

I may be in the minority (or completely own my own) when i say this, but, Wrestlemania 24 is the GOAT.

EDIT: Holy shit I forgot about Vince/Hogan! A lot of people hate but I was entertained. Here's a great question: Hogan/Vince or HBK/Vince? I think I'll go with HBK/Vince.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Rock/Austin III post-match celebrations are so emotional. Rock looked like he is about to cry after thanking Austin and going to hug his family in the crowds. I have no idea why he pushed Earl Hebner though. Not sure if it was in character or he was just being a dick at the time


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Cena/Taker from Vengeance 2003. Heel Cena :mark: Taker's selling is pretty fantastic. Cena being aggressive when he can't put Taker down is so much better than the way he is today. After a nearfall, he just sits there and doubts himself. As a heel, he was super aggresive and cocky, and made it work. 

Michael Cole in that match when Taker started bleeding: "This isn't boxing folks, they won't stop it for blood." My, how things have changed ten years later.



> The Rock/Austin III post-match celebrations are so emotional. Rock looked like he is about to cry after thanking Austin and going to hug his family in the crowds. I have no idea why he pushed Earl Hebner though. Not sure if it was in character or he was just being a dick at the time


Rock's said it's because he didn't want anyone else to hear what he was telling Austin. We all know how Earl gets in the way of things. Like, all the time.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> The Rock/Austin III post-match celebrations are so emotional. Rock looked like he is about to cry after thanking Austin and going to hug his family in the crowds. I have no idea why he pushed Earl Hebner though. Not sure if it was in character or he was just being a dick at the time


Wanted to tell Austin something in private.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Taker vs Cena Vengeance 2003* *****

Love that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't deny it's a _great_ match but we're talking _favorites_. Just because something is great doesn't mean it's among my favorites. My ratings for Austin/Rock and HBK/Jericho are the opposite of yours, 4 & a half for the former and 4 for the latter. Lesnar/Angle is good too and hell, even Vince/Hogan.



Your boy Orton killed it in the 2005 EC match. I think 2005 might be even better than the 2002 one, the line up is stacked and everyone contributed solid work. I like the misdirection they pull when Batista throws Jericho into the cameraman. That's when I and I bet everyone else assumed they'd open the chamber up and either Flair would come in and interfere or Orton and Triple H would start brawling outside it. They don't go that route, and it isn't until later when the match is about 5 minutes from being over that Flair finally gets involved. I especially love the part when Batista finally gets his turn to join the battle, but his cage door won't open so he just starts going ballistic like a pissed off caged gorilla. I don't know if I can give this match the full 5 stars, but as it is it gets ****1/2. Just an awesome bloody, dramatic affair and the devolving of Evolution provides for some great story telling. It's a shame we will probably never see a chamber match this loaded with talent, this bloody, this hard hitting, this AWESOME, ever again. Oh we'll, glad I bout this set from the bargain bin. That match alone was worth the $5.99 I spent on the 3 DVDs


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Bryan tonight... another good bout between the two. Normally a finish like that would make me bring a rating down... but fuck it, Barrett won! :mark:

Edit: Sandow/Orton... wow, two for two so far as far as good matches go for Raw tonight. Great match actually and might be Sandow's best in WWE (either this or the Christian match on Main Event pre-MITB would be it). You give him more than 5 minutes, and he'll deliver. Of course, he was in there with Orton, who did a great job in the match as well and has been doing well for a couple months now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh great. Big E Langston vs the Great Khali. Exactly what I was hoping for when I tuned into Raw. Ugh. Can Khali just go somewhere already? The guy has no skill, no charisma, no nothing. Kaitlyn and AJ are the only reason I'm not taking a piss right now. On second thought I'm just gonna go ahead and take a piss.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton has really bettered his performances in the past couple of months. His Sandow matches a while back were pretty dull but this one was better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Great to see The Usos getting over in spite of what the Paramore fan thinks. We need more face tag teams.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fuck that brock/punk stuff last week, THIS was Promo of the year by far, and Cena's best stuff on the mic since the punk summer of '11 feud


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Bryan/Cena promo just made me like 50x more excited than I was before it for the match. What a promo. Arguably best of the year. Both men were fantastic.

Only promos I'd maybe have above it would be the Punk/Heyman one from the night after MITB, and the one a week after Brock first attacked Punk. I need to re-watch all three back to back to really decide, but it's close.

Edit: Oh yeah, and the Henry promo also deserves a mention. Hell, may throw in the Rock/Cena legends panel as those 5 are all definitely my top 5 of the year so far. I'll give them all a watch tomorrow to really decide how I'd rank them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know if I would call it promo of the year henry1), but that added so much much needed heat to this match. Summerslam can't come any sooner.

EDIT: And now we have a dance-off.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That promo was very good. Laughing at people saying Bryan can't work a mic.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

He can't. Until he sounds like he's not reading from a script, he can't. But he's the thing to like at the moment, so I won't bother.

I'd still put Punk/Heyman, Punk/Lesnar/Heyman, and Henry's segment above this one _by far,_ but it is up there.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

He may be the thing to like, but I've followed the dude since 2005 and I really believe he can work a mic when he has an intense character such as he was tonight. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that, but I completely disagree.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

That's fine, I'd be lying if I said I don't see where you're coming from. Maybe I need to re-watch the segment, but Cena clearly outclassed Bryan.

Although it wouldn't be fair to compare since Bryan is so new to the main event scene. And I too have followed his career since 05, and he's improved a large amount. I just don't think he's up there to be called a good talker, yet. Time in the main event can improve him.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I thought Cena did a solid job. Definitely much better than his promo last week, that's for sure.

I'd love to know why Miz even needed to be out there, lol.

And I think Bryan will only get better over time. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Really happy they let Bryan end the segment on a high note, Cena completely was killing it ( did I just say that ?), like the direction its going


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

With all the pandering Cena does, it makes the idea of a heel turn so much more epic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena cut a great promo, like he usually does when he gets serious. Bryan was fine.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

It was really nice to see the "Yes" stuff left out by Bryan, though. No bullshit like that, just a straight up promo. I'm not saying it was good, but it was what this program had to be like since the beginning. 

The match will be batshit crazy good, though. So I'm stoked.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose/RVD on the Summerslam pre-show should be fun. Also looks like they're doing Shield v Henry & Show which I'm so down for. Card looks great top to bottom.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoyed that battle royal. RVD/Ambrose should be nice and it would be a huge rub if Rollins/Reigns beat Show/Henry. Not to mention that could also be a great match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Now that's how you end a show. unk


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If this PPV doesn't deliver, then cut my legs off and call me shorty.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Now my hopes of Lesnar winning have come way up. :mark:

Didn't care for the segment otherwise, just didn't want him to look strong again.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Great way to end the show, sick promo from Heyman. Punk standing tall only confirms Lesnar's winning Sunday.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Heyman/Lesnar/Punk segment was flat and boring. I don't care though, it looks like Brock is winning on Sunday. (Y)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great third hour once again. Things slowed down in the second hour but thankfully the third hour saved things. Two great segments in Bryan/Cena and Lesnar/Punk and that solid battle royale plus Big Show's return. Punk gaining the momentum hopefully means Lesnar is winning the match. As for Bryan/Cena, it's obvious that there is a twist in this special referee stipulation. I hope it doesn't end up like Punk/Cena from two Summerslams ago where there was a dumb ending.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Good stuff to end Raw. Heyman promo did kinda go on and on and on but was still good. And the beatdown from Punk on Lesnar, while I'm not that thrilled about it, was done as best it could be. Overall good ending.

Also, I thought Bryan was better in the promo with Cena. His first part of the segment was maybe a little weaker than Cena's (both were awesome), but how he ended it after Cena finished talking is where I give Bryan the MVP of that segment. Last week I gave Cena's promo the nod over Bryan's. This week both promos were better than those two, but I'd give it to Bryan.

Regardless, it's a Segment of the Year candidate.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh RAW. Didn't feel like a big go home show at all. It's amazing though how the crowd just woke up during the final minutes of that battle royal. They really made it feel like something special Also, I was expecting Henry to go over. I can see Ambrose losing, if he does, hopefully this means bigger and better things. That title has held him back. But what was his promo about? I doubted the reports, but it seems as if WWe has really done away with scripted promos. I hardly doubt someone actually gave him those lines to say.

Also tbh, HHH being added as the special ref just fucked up this whole thing for me. Unless, Orton cashes in after Bryan wins and HHH has to do the slow slow 1...2...you son of a bitch 3 count, i really can't see the need for him. I guess, WWE doesn't have that much faith in Bryan's drawing ability.

I'm interested in Ziggler/Kaitlyn vs E/AJ. Could be fun. Lesnar/Punk is going to be EPIC. This match can go either way and boy am I excited.

In closing, this has potential to be one of the GOAT Summerslam.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That Bryan/Cena promo was gold. I'm really excited for Summerslam. My only issues are the lack of a feud for Christian/Del Rio. Also Ambrose/RVD on the pre show with Bella/Natalya on the main card.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> My only issues are the lack of a feud for Christian/Del Rio.


 This. Seems so random as well. Christian wins number one contenders match, beats ADL twice and ends up facing him. Just basic stuff. Unless Ricardo's returning, I highly doubt Christian is winning at Summerslam.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I figured with Brock getting the upper hand like, 3 times in a row that Punk would get the upper hand on the go-home show, with Lesnar going on Sunday. 

Bryan was pretty good tonight, Cena was okay until he brought up his make a wish like he's the only one who does it and sucking the crowd's dick and whatnot.

Christian/Del Rio has had zero build, but that video package tonight had Christian-retirement vibes. 

Ambrose/RVD on the pre-show though...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Could someone explain why in nearly all the feuds going in, the heels lost tonight? The normal thing to do is to have the babyface look as if he is in peril. Just feels weird when it's the heel.

Also, did anyone get the vibe that Christian may be retiring? Video packaged just seemed odd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SHIELD AND HENRY.

Who fucking cares about the rest of the card.

SETH ROLLINS IS GOING TO BE BUMPING FOR MARK HENRY'S OFFENSE.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Dark Church said:


> That Bryan/Cena promo was gold. I'm really excited for Summerslam. My only issues are the lack of a feud for Christian/Del Rio. Also Ambrose/RVD on the pre show with Bella/Natalya on the main card.


Gotta promote that right there Total Divas. I mean, it's taking place during the PPV. They have to advertise Total Divas, to try to get us to watch it, during their second biggest show of the year.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> SHIELD AND HENRY.
> 
> Who fucking cares about the rest of the card.
> 
> SETH ROLLINS IS GOING TO BE BUMPING FOR MARK HENRY'S OFFENSE.


Would much rather enjoy seeing Ambrose do the bumping. Oh, who am I kidding, Heath Slater is the guy to do the bumping. If only the Shield would make him a member for a day.


----------



## youmakemeleery (May 27, 2013)

So, I finally finished watching WM28 today. This was my 2nd watch and I already was posting comments, but there were only two matches left, but this meant I had about an hour and a half to sit down.

Jericho vs. Punk - The only thing that hurt this was the crowd response. I love these two guys and what they did during the match, so it was sad to see the crowd being kind of lazy for it. Although, they had Rock vs. Cena coming up and just sat through HHH vs. Taker, so they understandably had to take a breather. That spot where Punk goes to do the hurricanrana off the top rope, but Jericho jumps off and throws him in the walls of jericho was thrilling and it woke the crowd the fuck up. It was a great match with solid back and forth action. Jericho's taunting of Punk at the beginning to try to get him to DQ himself was awesome. The small things always make a difference and these two get it. Lots of great reversals and counters and this truly felt like an even contest from start to finish. The right man won and it was given a good amount of time too. 

4 and a half stars for me. Doesn't get me quite as hard as the HIAC from earlier, but god damn two matches like that in a night will really make me happy.

So, this sets up for the last match. Rock vs. Cena. The crowd was pretty hot during much of this, which helps it. I missed out on the great moment of Rock vs. Hogan and how that turned out live, so I was hoping to get something like that here. A dream match that ends up turning out to be a fun watch, that may be not a clinic in the ring, but the crowd and atmosphere help make up for it. I was pretty wrong. I was hoping for nostalgia of The Rock, for the crowd, and for the idea of seeing this match that I was so damned excited for from the first second the Rock first showed up again in the WWE to carry me into enjoying this, but I just felt underwhelmed. Rock clearly was not ready to go full speed and there were too many restholds for my liking. The Rock used to be the king and using his personality to make a match enjoyable and that's why it was so sad to feel that it was missing here. If you could have painted by numbers a dream match, this would be it. 

Also, I have to say that I want to take away major points from the WWE for being way too egotistical and overblown with their treatment of this dream match. The WWE treated this match as if it was the greatest dream match in the history of all of professional wrestling. Rock vs. Hogan gets a one-month build and placed middle of the card. This match gets a year-long build and a main event slot. The most annoying thing about this match was how long it took to get the fucking thing going. It took almost 20 minutes of song, dance, and entrance to get the damn bell rung. Not too mention that the entrances were pretty standard and lame, despite the fact that they basically had mini-concerts to hype each guy coming out. The match then seemed to drag on for an eternity, which is sad considering one of the wrestlers hadn't had a singles match in like 9 years. You would think 20 minutes would be enough, but for some reason the WWE thought this match was worth over a half hour and that fans wanted that. The fans NEEDED a full year to digest having a match so awesome as this, and the fans NEEDED 20 minutes of intro just to get ready and then the fans NEEDED over 30 minutes of in-ring action to be satisfied. If you have something that is cool, you also need to be a bit humble about it or else it just becomes annoying. I wish the WWE had some humility on the booking of this. I don't need them to do Rock vs. Hogan, where you get a few weeks of build and then put a dream match in the middle of the card. It just feels like WWE screwed up by putting Rock Hogan in the middle and the same with Michaels Taker, so they were going to go overboard, but I swear there is a middle ground.

Still, this was underwhelming and the 2nd viewing did not improve it for me as it did with the other two main events. 3.75 stars.

So, my ultimate rating is 1. Taker vs. HHH 2. Punk vs. Y2J 3. Rock vs. Cena 4. Kane vs. Orton 5. Everything else wasn't that memorable Dead Last: Rock vs. Cena promo/intro/concertathon


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

We all are having fun guys but yet again, the WWE fucks over dolph ziggler, I mean a mixed tag match ?


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> We all are having fun guys but yet again, the WWE fucks over dolph ziggler, I mean a mixed tag match ?


Hopefully that would be the end to the Dolph/AJ/Big E feud and Dolph would go on chasing the World title with a return feud with Del Rio or a possible feud with Sandow if he cashes in Money in the Bank.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't have a problem with the mixed tag match. It has potential to be good.

What I don't like is Trips as the ref for Bryan/Cena. WHY? WHY?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brye said:


> I don't have a problem with the mixed tag match. It has potential to be good.
> 
> What I don't like is Trips as the ref for Bryan/Cena. WHY? WHY?


Daniel Bryan may be a great wrestler but he needs to take lessons on how to draw from the GOAT :HHH2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Trips being the ref is pointless unless they have him turn heel. And I'm sure they won't. So fuck that. But meh... as long as he doesn't get in the way and acts as a normal ref, I suppose it could be worse.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Orton is really putting on solid matches in weekly basis. His match with Sandow on Raw was another good match involving Orton. I really hope he wins the title at Summerslam. It's been a long time, man.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Cena vs Bryan
Punk vs Lesnar
Wyatt vs Kane
Ambrose vs RVD
Rhodes vs Sandow
Dolph/Kaitlyn vs Big E/AJ
Shield vs Show/Henry?
Christian/Del Rio

WHAT A CARD


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

No problem with HHH reffing Cena/Bryan. I think we all knew it would have a screwy finish to begin with. 

Just watched the Orton/Bryan street fight. Didn't care for it. It had its moments but I wouldn't watch it again. Definitely think the Smackdown match is the best of the series. On this evidence Orton is one of Bryan's worst opponents in terms of him getting ample time in there with him and not being able to produce something great. Ryback did it, Miz did it, Barrett did it but the chemistry wasn't there with Orton.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm so up and down on this because I'm a Trips mark, but they've booked themselves into a corner here. They could have Bryan win, Orton cash in, leading to a triple threat feud, where Bryan is the third wheel and Trips either turns or doesn't turn, while the McMahon story continues. Or Bryan gets pinned clean after a hard fought match, and Orton cashes in, leading to Orton/Cena while Bryan goes off and does whatever else.

I don't think they'd turn Cena heel, with Trips screwing Bryan. Cena would probably come out the next night and condemn the McMahons, saying he wanted to win clean or no other way.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

This year's Summerslam could be a fun night judging by the card. It could be on par with Summerslam 2002 or 2009.

Ambrose vs. RVD hyping up the pre-show, Christian vs. Del Rio, Bray Wyatt in-ring debut, Cena vs. Bryan, The Best vs. The Beast. Should be a fun night indeed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Would much rather enjoy seeing Ambrose do the bumping. Oh, who am I kidding, Heath Slater is the guy to do the bumping. If only the Shield would make him a member for a day.


since when has Ambrose bumped to a level that makes it nutty like Rollins has? It's the perfect combo. Rollins + Giants. Heck yes.

RAW tonight was eh outside of about two things. No matter, two matches were pretty much made _(tag title isn't "official" just yet, but it's happening)_ and I'm excited for both. Divas match is laughable, but US Championship is on the pre-show for the reason that it'll get time behind it while the Natalya vs Brie match is obvious filler. I'll even attempt to go to the bathroom during it. That's my goal.



Saint Dick said:


> Just watched the Orton/Bryan street fight. Didn't care for it. It had its moments but I wouldn't watch it again. Definitely think the Smackdown match is the best of the series. On this evidence Orton is one of Bryan's worst opponents in terms of him getting ample time in there with him and not being able to produce something great. Ryback did it, Miz did it, Barrett did it but the chemistry wasn't there with Orton.


(Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)


Felt like two guys trading moves to me. Some of the moves were good but the match didn't engage me.

Just got done with a match you recommended. Sheamus/Barrett from Main Event 5/29. Now that's a match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly the same for me. It was just there. Felt very flat minus the reaction from the fans on the moment Danielson actually won.

Stellar. Those two topped themselves that night. Those two have a nice & tight chemistry. They're gonna bruise each other. And it works.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

That Barrett/Sheamus makes me sad they haven't had a feud yet. It should've been Barrett in Show's spot last year, taking the World Title off Sheamus.

Then again, I can't complain too much considering how great the Show/Sheamus HIAC match was, and their other bouts were good as well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I get to see THE GAME at SummerSlam :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I guess Hunter is long overdue to be involved in a PPV main event. It's been like, since April, man.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who cares? 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Who said anything about :dazzler :cena3 :HHH2 rton being the main event? unk6 :brock :heyman


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I guess Hunter is long overdue to be involved in a PPV main event. It's been like, since April, man.





HayleySabin said:


> Who cares? 8*D


HEY FUCK YOU GUYS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H can't miss his yearly SummerSlam appearance check.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Can't blame the guy :HHH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But it's always best if we do. _*MENG smiley*_


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I still don't forgive HHH for shooting JFK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mr. 1993 I just found this:






It's one of those nights. you seen it?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My blood pressure doubles when I go into the Raw thread from tonight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not even going to ask what the moronic topic was tonight. 

a better topic, Brye I watched most of Punk: The Final Chapter tonight.  Only need the main event to rewatch.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not even the moronic arguments all over the forum can ruin SummerSlam for me. Soo pumped :mark:

On another note, I'm actually very surprised that there wasn't a stipulation added to Punk vs. Lesnar.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Mr. 1993 I just found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


SHIIIIT. I'll make sure to watch that when I watch the piles of Meng/Haku/Tonga whenever. Hope I can rely on you to remind me if I forget. 

_(I haven't forgotten about Bourne v. Carlito ;D)_


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Fuck Triple H tbh.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm gonna watch a Triple H match right now.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm not even going to ask what the moronic topic was tonight.
> 
> a better topic, Brye I watched most of Punk: The Final Chapter tonight.  Only need the main event to rewatch.



:

Thoughts on Cide/Ki vs Joe/Lethal?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That match utterly rules. One of the best heel performances of the 2000s from Ki & Homicide.



> I fucking love Joe & Lethal v. Ki & Homicide from Punk: the Final Chapter. I watched it last year and was blown away by the heel-ness of the Rottweilers, and I felt the need to go back to it because I thought of it as something that could have made my list. They hold up as fucking arseholes. Taunting Joe to get in, abusing the referee (Ki even boots him in the face at one point), mimicking audience members – just the most unlikeable street thugs. Homicide slapping Lethal’s hand away when Lethal was close to the ropes was amazing. Ki stopping a sunset flip by shoving Lethal’s head to he mat and brutally double stomping him was just as amazing. These are my kind of fucking heels. Homicide was on fire with the selling, too. Rubbing his forehead like crazy after a Joe headbutt, and shaking his own arms after attacking Joe’s head (because it’s so HARD). They both put Joe over really well as the guy they need to stay away from (but taunt the shit out of, and cheapshot where possible). Lethal had supposedly nearly gotten victories over both of these Rottweilers, and when he got even close here Homicide dropped an elbow on the ref to prevent it. Post match brawl was ludicrous. If this had more meat with Ki & Homicide acting like arseholes, it’d be a stone cold lock. No hyperbole.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> SHIIIIT. I'll make sure to watch that when I watch the piles of Meng/Haku/Tonga whenever. Hope I can rely on you to remind me if I forget.
> 
> _(I haven't forgotten about Bourne v. Carlito ;D)_


 :mark:

found and watched a Haku vs Undertaker match from '92 at a WAR/WWF event on youtube too. Think I can die now. Haku was creating a whole ton of interesting sounds during the match. Think Albert/Tensai screams with Mankind-esque groans non-stop. 9.75/10 match.



Brye said:


> :
> 
> Thoughts on Cide/Ki vs Joe/Lethal?


Brilliant. Utterly grand. I remember Yeah1993 and others pimping it and boy I feel lame that it's taken me THIS long to finally see it. I fancy myself a big bloke who's always loved Homicide _(and Low Ki for that matter)_ so seeing them heel it up in truly tremendous fashion was golden. Joe was the perfect bad ass foil for the heels to want and not interact with while the banged up Lethal was great with his face in peril role. Much like he did throughout the entire feud, he took a licking. I like to think this is the match where those who never wanted to give Homicide any due for his work should watch. You think "typical indie format" where they tried to make things have a lot of heat and that would be a gross misconception. This was something else. Outside of some great Homicide matches I've always loved prior, this had made it's way all the up there. Arguably as probably my favorite performance from him too. Got to by my favorite of his from 2005. Again, arguably by a mile when I look back at it. His brawls & wrestling matches really did go back and forth in terms of top notch quality that year. From key hard work performances vs Gibson, Aries, & Williams to the brawls vs Danielson & Cabana - they all proved something. Then this tag comes along and is right above the lot. T'was a stellar 18 minutes. Easily stole the show. One spot where Joe was finally getting to kick ass on the Rotts & Ki breaks up a nearfall by double stomping Joe half way across the ring. Landing on his floating ribs too. FUCK that's so awesome. Ki double stomped the hell out of Lethal's head into the mat during the FIP segment too. :mark:

Post-match brawl was GOOD GRIEF. Low Ki got busted open after taking a chair Joe threw right into his face. You knew when it happened too. Of course, while that was only one nutty aspect of the brawl, blood & that event will forever belong to Ace Steel. That was a little hard to watch and I'm awful enough to love bloody scenes in wrestling.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Fuck that's the match I couldn't think of that I knew I needed to see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You got to. Meanwhile I still need to do the same with Aries & Strong vs Danielson & Lethal from Tag Wars '06.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Read through some of the Raw thread and all I can do is :lmao. Wow. Some people take this shit a bit too seriously if you ask me. But I have to admit, I find mark wars hilarious so I enjoyed it :lol.

Summerslam should be great. Cena/Bryan is so unpredictable. I just wish Lesnar/Punk had a stip added because I don't see how the match works without one. Either way, I'm hyped for Sunday.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Triple H does his yearly ride the momentum of someone who's hot and cool him off gig

It was Punk in 2011
It was Lesnar in 2012
Now its DB this year

Cool. Were guaranteed a screwy finish during the Cena V DB match which dampens my excitement for it a whole lot.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The unpredictability is the best thing about it for me. I legit have no clue what the hell is going to happen. All the pieces of the puzzle are in place now except Vince. We just have to wait and see how it all unfolds.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I'm so tired of Hunter weaseling his way into things. I know it's part of the story, and it's an extra layer to the feud, it's just Hunter, man. Why has he always got to be in the middle?

Other than that, Summerslam looks like an immensely fun card with two explosive main-events. The Shield matches being announced last night was the icing.

The Bryan/Cena segment was great. It was probably the biggest money promo of Bryan's career. Anyone suggesting that he's "bad" after that clearly isn't willing to accept Bryan for his abilities. That promo was spot on - not perfect - but perfectly acceptable. I love that they finally brought some heat into the fued. Having Cena admit that he doesn't respect Bryan is the last piece of the puzzle. Nice call back to Bryan's days as the "weak-link" as well.

Heyman was a little off last night, which is extremely unusual, but I was sold on Punk/Lesnar a LONG time ago, so it doesn't really matter.

Raw wasn't anything special. The streak of red-hot RAW TV matches has been put to bed over the past couple of weeks. I guess that's what happens when the GOAT doesn't get enough time.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Just watch HHH be the focal point of the storyline line after SS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok Raw. The Cena/Bryan and Punk/Heyman/Lesnar segments were kick-ass.

Though the Natalya botch made me lose a notch of confidence over her skills. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry & Show as a tag team vs Rollins & Reigns def needs to be talked about much more than some egocentric twat. Lets spice things up in here, yeah? ok, good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:HHH :HHH2

:troll


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ :lol So much GAME hate. Guy scarred people during their childhood so badly they're still mad over it. 

I reckon they might be saving the Shield for possible interference in Cena/Bryan. They're kind of flying under the radar. Maybe it's intentional? And if there's a big team war planned for later in the year this is the perfect time to set it up. I personally want a massive clusterfuck to end the show. This match has been building towards one the second it was announced. There's too many players involved for there not to be. I'm hyped.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Show's a face again? Actually wow, it's been since May last year hasn't it? He and Henry on the same team makes me a happy boy. Rollins is going to attempt to do some permanent nerve damage to himself bumping for all of their shit. Reigns having those 'OK shit is going the fucky fuck down' type clashes with the beefies could be incredible. Henry eats a great spear so hopefully that happens. Pretty sure this is the match I'm looking forward to most on the show. When it's all said and done I want Henry to turn on Show so they can feud again and have the best phatty matches of the year like they did a couple years back. 




You know who's great? Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Show's a face again? Actually wow, it's been since May last year hasn't it? He and Henry on the same team makes me a happy boy. Rollins is going to attempt to do some permanent nerve damage to himself bumping for all of their shit. Reigns having those 'OK shit is going the fucky fuck down' type clashes with *the beefies* could be incredible. Henry eats a great spear so hopefully that happens. Pretty sure this is the match I'm looking forward to most on the show. When it's all said and done I want Henry to turn on Show so they can feud again and have the best phatty matches of the year like they did a couple years back.


I'll be upset if this isn't their official team name now. 

THE BEEFIES


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> ^^^^ :lol So much GAME hate. Guy scarred people during their childhood so badly they're still mad over it.
> 
> I reckon they might be saving the Shield for possible interference in Cena/Bryan. They're kind of flying under the radar. Maybe it's intentional? And if there's a big team war planned for later in the year this is the perfect time to set it up. I personally want a massive clusterfuck to end the show. This match has been building towards one the second it was announced. There's too many players involved for there not to be. I'm hyped.


Its not hate. Its fact. Meltzer pretty much confirmed on his radio podcast that

VERY POSSIBLE SPOILERS








HHH is gonna turn heel at Summerslam and he will be the lead factor in the storyline. After this week this is no longer about Daniel Bryan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Or "Beef 'n' BEEF". Second beef has to be capitalized.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show wasn't acting all "face-y" but I suppose he is for now. Been a legit heel since he got his IRON CLAD contract as you pointed out. Minus the dunces who actually thought he was a face for the WM match. On paper it sounds like the best damn tag team match the company could have produced and haven't done already. Henry & Show on a team? vs the dynamic duo of Rollins & Reigns? fuck outta here. That's almost too good to be true. It has to last 30 seconds. This can't happen. Could it? The prospect are wicked and I'm trying to think of at least ten ways how it couldn't deliver. None seem plausible.

You know who else is as good as Orlando Jordan? Orlando Jordan.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Show wasn't acting all "face-y" but I suppose he is for now. Been a legit heel since he got his IRON CLAD contract as you pointed out. Minus the dunces who actually thought he was a face for the WM match. On paper it sounds like the *best damn tag team match the company could have produced and haven't done already*. Henry & Show on a team? vs the dynamic duo of Rollins & Reigns? fuck outta here. That's almost too good to be true. It has to last 30 seconds. This can't happen. Could it? The prospect are wicked and I'm trying to think of at least ten ways how it couldn't deliver. None seem plausible.
> 
> You know who else is as good as Orlando Jordan? Orlando Jordan.


Punk & Henry vs Lesnar & Cesaro ain't done either.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lol I like THE BEEFIES better. This match isn't confirmed though, right? Actually wait, Rollins/Reigns will probably interfere on the preshow and then the tag match will be made there and added to the actual show. I bet that's what happens. I like it. 

A Trips heel turn is kind of a big deal though since he hasn't been one for 7 years. Just saying. There have been so many reported outcomes to this match that at this stage that I think Meltzer and the rest of them are covering all bases. The heel turn more than likely has been discussed....along with a million other things. We don't know what's going down and personally I think it's great. Unpredictability = great TV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield laid out a challenge. Henry has beef with Shield, Show came out for an obvious reason. There are still WWE shows left to promote to SummerSlam. It's going to be added there.

Easy enough to follow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

With all of this, i'm supposing that either Cody/Damien or the Mixed Tag will open the show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Show wasn't acting all "face-y" but I suppose he is for now. Been a legit heel since he got his IRON CLAD contract as you pointed out. Minus the dunces who actually thought he was a face for the WM match. On paper it sounds like the best damn tag team match the company could have produced and haven't done already. Henry & Show on a team? vs the dynamic duo of Rollins & Reigns? fuck outta here. That's almost too good to be true. It has to last 30 seconds. This can't happen. Could it? The prospect are wicked and I'm trying to think of at least ten ways how it couldn't deliver. None seem plausible.
> 
> You know who else is as good as Orlando Jordan? Orlando Jordan.


Glad he isn't weird and cheery. Keep them badazz. He and Henry being big fat sweaty Stone Cold and big fat sweaty black Stone Cold are a good fit if they are to be faces. Really doesn't feel like Show's been a heel for that long, but I haven't been paying the greatest attention so I guess time just passed me. Over a year? Daaaang. Yeah realistically I should expect the tag'll last half a minute and WWE will fuck me over. It'll be a You're Fired Lumberjack match where everybody who enters the ring (tag match participants and lumberjacks) are all fired at once regardless of anything. And the only wrestler who doesn't enter the ring will be Kofi Kingston. They'll then replace the 25 wrestlers they fired with Davey Richards and 24 Davey Richards clones.

I saw an Orlando Jordan match that was better than every Orlando Jordan match ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

THE BEEFIES. Best thing to come out of this thread in a long time. Best thing since some hansom genius came up with Zig Zag Paddy Swagg .

RVD/Ambrose on paper actually doesn't sound too awful. Ambrose brings all his character shizzle and mauls RVD, RVD flops about like a fish out of water for Ambrose, they do a nice finishing stretch and Ambrose goes over in the end. Could be good stuff tbh.

THE BEEFIES Vs Rollins & Reigns could be tremendous. Can't wait.

Did we end up in 2011 again btw? Because Cena/Bryan with HHH is just like Cena/Punk with HHH all over again and I'm not liking this at all. Bryan is WHITE HOT right now, just like Punk was 2 years ago, and they still FUCKED IT ALL UP. I can't help but feel it's gonna happen again .

Punk/Lesnar has me all :mark:. Yet another great segment with them on Raw.

Shame they've completely ignored the WHC match. Hopefully we at least get a good match out of it.

SS is looking SWEEEET.

Orlando Jordan returning at SS would be epic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

On a sidenoote... God, the SSlam themes are horrendous.

Still, that obviously doesn't take away from the mad potential the show has.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Bryan was pretty good tonight, Cena was okay until he brought up his make a wish like he's the only one who does it and sucking the crowd's dick and whatnot.


The make a wish stuff made sense, he wasn't pandering but giving legit reasons why he's still the same character and gimmick and won't turn heel, whether you agree with his opinion is a differen matter but you can't deny it's pretty powerful stuff when it comes to real life in comparison to just entertainment. 

A parent of a dieing child telling you that your 'Never Give Up' motto are what helps that kid through the days is awe inspiring just hearing about and means he doesn't feel he can change the character when it's so important to a certain fanbase of his. 



The Sandrone said:


> Trips being the ref is pointless unless they have him turn heel. And I'm sure they won't. So fuck that. But meh... as long as he doesn't get in the way and acts as a normal ref, I suppose it could be worse.


Yeah, it didn't need a referee, it was actually one of the things which took away from Punk/Cena II at SS ion comparison to MITB. the focus for the majority should have been just those two but I expected a whole load of fuckery since the match was announced. 

Im convinced Cena retains in a cheap way the story being Bryan had Cena beat at some point ( but not turning heel) with lots of fuckery and Orton doesn't cash in either.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love Trips, but he has no fucking business being involved in Cena Vs Bryan. If anything, his involvement solidifies it as the main event though.

Watched some 2006 Rey yesterday, and there's no way that he isn't at least a top two worker from that year man. The only person in my mind that could have him beaten out would be Finlay, since Benoit was gone for a huge portion of the year. LOVED the JBL bout at Judgment Day and adored his Henry stuff, only things I didn't like were the booker match at GAB and the Wrestlemania match. ORTON MATCHES = <3.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH turning heel is one thing and potentially something that could make me care for him...

... but him becoming the lead for this storyline, completely stealing Bryan's thunder like he did Punk's? Well fuck that! I'll... I'll...

I'll bitch about it on the internet once it becomes clear the storyline is about HHH!

But he really should be part of the SUPPORTING cast to Bryan being the lead. This should be Bryan's storyline, not HHH.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I love Trips, but he has no fucking business being involved in Cena Vs Bryan. If anything, his involvement solidifies it as the main event though.

Watched some 2006 Rey yesterday, and there's no way that he isn't at least a top two worker from that year man. The only person in my mind that could have him beaten out would be Finlay, since Benoit was gone for a huge portion of the year. LOVED the JBL bout at Judgment Day and adored his Henry stuff, only things I didn't like were the booker match at GAB and the Wrestlemania match. ORTON MATCHES = <3.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Triple H once again inserting himself as a special referee into a WWE Title Summerslam match, when he absolutely doesn't need to be. But hey, Triple H needs to keep himself relevant right? 

Triple H only brought down Punk/Cena at Summerslam two years ago and he'll only do the same with Cena/Bryan. Expecting a bigger chance of a screwy finish now, but whatever I don't really care about the match anyway. Triple H screwing over Bryan would be great though, I don't want him as WWE Champion at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chris fucking Masters Vs Evan awesome Bourne - Superstars 3rd September 2009

WHY HAVE I NOT KNOWN OF THIS MATCH'S EXISTENCE?

This is just tremendous. It isn't a great babyface performance from Masters like I am used to from his return run in WWE during this time (when did he officially turn face btw?)... instead its a pretty awesome heel performance from the Master Piece!

Bourne struggles to try and keep Masters and his STRENGTH at bay with quick kicks and shit, but Masters gets hold of him and begins to utterly MAUL him. Great work on the back, including a stunningly awesome press slam into a backbreaker. Evan sold the shit out of it and just flopped outside of the ring and Masters really sold the frustration of Bourne landing out of the ring which put the move over as something that potentially could have ended this match. 

Comebacks from Bourne are sweeet, even if a little repetitive with head scissors a couple of times, but all nice reversals of Masters' offence into them. The teased Master Lock and subsequent escape from Bourne was cool as shit too.

Loved it. ***1/2


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ My second favourite Bourne singles match in the WWE behind his match with John Morrison on ECW April 2009. Love it so much. Bourne needs to return, now. Is he still injured?


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

YoungGun_UK said:


> The make a wish stuff made sense, he wasn't pandering but giving legit reasons why he's still the same character and gimmick and won't turn heel, whether you agree with his opinion is a differen matter but you can't deny it's pretty powerful stuff when it comes to real life in comparison to just entertainment.
> 
> A parent of a dieing child telling you that your 'Never Give Up' motto are what helps that kid through the days is awe inspiring just hearing about and means he doesn't feel he can change the character when it's so important to a certain fanbase of his.


Except Cena is the only wrestler who does make-a-wish and he isn't the only top guy in history that has done make-a-wish. If Cena stopped being the top guy, those kids who would have wanted him for their wish will still have a wish, and they'll probably just choose whoever replaced Cena as the top hero in WWE or some other celebrity they love.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Except Cena is the only wrestler who does make-a-wish and he isn't the only top guy in history that has done make-a-wish. If Cena stopped being the top guy, those kids who would have wanted him for their wish will still have a wish, and they'll probably just choose whoever replaced Cena as the top hero in WWE or some other celebrity they love.


I agree, their have been others but other than Hulk Hogan none of them were really heroes to the children, Rock and Austin were never portrayed in that way and I doubt they ever were looked at for inspiration in the same way Hogan and Cena probably receive. 

I dislike Cena's gimmick but again I get its not aimed at me, its aimed at those 5 to 10 year olds who love him and in some cases are those ill children who hang on his words and like he said 'Never Give Up' on the surface is just a catchphrase but quite clearly it means more to those kids, and for that reason Cena won't take that away from them. 

whether thats just his kayfabe answer or not, it fits John Cena.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The same little kids who love Cena also love Bryan, though. Bryan also gets all the fan support from those who hate Cena.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

Is the WWE: Attitude Era DVD/Blu Ray any decent? I really want to purchase it, but I'm unsure. I have heard some bad reviews about it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WWE MVP worker from 2000-2009?

I mean despite what you may think of him, it just had to be Rey mysterio. Arguably the best baby face worker ever coupled with amazing quality from match to match, extreme consistency, and longevity (meaning Eddie and Chris DIED). You could say The Undertaker I guess but I like Rey's consistency better.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I can get on board with Rey. He's top 10 all time I'm sure as far as workers are concerned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bob Van Dam said:


> Is the WWE: Attitude Era DVD/Blu Ray any decent? I really want to purchase it, but I'm unsure. I have heard some bad reviews about it.


Its... ok. Buy it if it's cheap, but only if it's cheap. Documentary is SEVERELY lacking in a lot of ways, but I guess it's kinda cool to see Russo on there and to see them actually talking about why the AE was successful (though hilarious at the same time because they KNOW why it made money yet refuse to attempt something similar today). Don't recall the match listings and cba to look them up . Probably not that great because most of the AE was filled with shitty matches until 2000.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey is one of the favs actually #6, IMO wwe-only workers :

hbk
taker
rey
bret
benoit


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MVP of 2000-2009? Would probably be Taker, Benoit or HBK. Rey I only remember bits and pieces of but I can't say he always grabbed me in. He had some amazing matches, but his work never really made me a fan. Eddie was only there for half of it. Finlay was awesome but wasn't around enough, Angle wasn't consistent enough, and uh... I think that covers all the amazing ones.

Taker really became a top worker in 2005, and was THE top worker by 2008. HBK was always extremely consistent and always a guy I could look forward to watching. Benoit was just a wrestling machine and arguably the GOAT worker. 

Meh, fuck it. I'm gonna be a Mark.

Edit: I said I'm gonna be a _Mark_.

Edit 2: I... said... I'm... gonna... be... a... *MARK*

Edit 3: Is this post showing? :taker


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

It's gotta be Taker, but Rey is definitely in the Top 5 I'd say. I also think Jericho should be in the top 5, he was gone from 05'-07' but he came back better then ever from then on. 

I just got a cool idea for a concept. I was watching ESPN the other day, and they were talking about Michael Jordan's classic 1988 season were he averaged 35/8/8 and won the MVP and DPOY. One guy was saying its the single greatest performance by a perimeter player in the history of basketball....

So, which wrestler had the best year ever? For instance, if you think no wrestler was ever better than Stone Cold in 1998, then Stone Colds 1998 would be the greatest year in wrestling history. How to determine best? Well ring work and match quality is obviously the most important, but consideration should also be given to the wrestlers feuds, his promos that year, and bonus points obviously if he was a champion during that time. Really you get to be the judge of what is the most important.

This question literally has me stumped, I just can't figure who has had the best year in wrestling history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

1) Shawn 1996

2) flair 89


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I never was an actual fan of Rey, but his in ring work was incredible. Top 10 in ring worker for me: 

1. HBK
2. Benoit
3. Undertaker
4. Bret Hart
5. Flair
6. Rey
7. Orton 
8. Foley
9. Jericho
10. Angle


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

Yeh, I've never been a fan of Rey Mysterio, but I always enjoy his Matches. The last series of Matches I enjoyed with Rey Mysterio was vs. Cody Rhodes, one at WrestleMania 27 and the other at Extreme Rules 2011.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> 1) Shawn 1996
> 
> 2) flair 89


Those were the 2 I was really fighting over, Flair had his amazing 5 star 3 match series with Steamboat and Shawn was just untouchable in 96'. His matches with Mankind, Vader, Davey Boy, Owen Hart, 96' Royal Rumble, all of it was just outstanding. 

Austin in 1998 was probably the greatest draw in the history of wrestling, and I did love his 2 classics with Foley (especially over the edge, which is a 5star bought for me). His match with HBK at Mania that year is loved by some people (personally I think it's as good a match as you can have with a guy who has a broken back. It could have been legendary if both were healthy. Oh we'll, the build was still about as good a build as you will ever see I'm WWE). Other than that tho none of his matches stand out to me.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Bret Hart is someone I will never understand the love for. Maybe I haven't watched enough of him, I dunno. I mean, he's good but I'll never for the life of me understand people putting him in the top 10 GOAT, let alone top 5. Whatever. Opinions are bitches.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah, who remembers Rey/Jericho @ GAB 09? Amazing! 

****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Match is awesome. Their series was great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Those were the 2 I was really fighting over, Flair had his amazing 5 star 3 match series with Steamboat and Shawn was just untouchable in 96'. His matches with Mankind, Vader, Davey Boy, Owen Hart, 96' Royal Rumble, all of it was just outstanding.
> 
> Austin in 1998 was probably the greatest draw in the history of wrestling, and I did love his 2 classics with Foley (especially over the edge, which is a 5star bought for me). His match with HBK at Mania that year is loved by some people (personally I think it's as good a match as you can have with a guy who has a broken back. It could have been legendary if both were healthy. Oh we'll, the build was still about as good a build as you will ever see I'm WWE). Other than that tho none of his matches stand out to me.


Outside of the iron man which should have been the best, I dont think Shawn had a bad match that year



FluxCapacitor said:


> Bret Hart is someone I will never understand the love for. Maybe I haven't watched enough of him, I dunno. I mean, he's good but I'll never for the life of me understand people putting him in the top 10 GOAT, let alone top 5. Whatever. Opinions are bitches.


I can understand you, I'm in the "I use to HATE Bret but I respect his ring work" boat. Its funny because I like his early years with neihart and then I love his 1997, but outside of the nash matches and some others I dont care for the middle portion of his career



xdoomsayerx said:


> Yeah, who remembers Rey/Jericho @ GAB 09? Amazing!
> 
> ****1/2


I use to adore this match, but havent watched it in a while


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

What's the best Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker Match? After watching the final few minutes of there Match at One Night Only 1997, I've always wanted to see other Matches between the two.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Outside of the iron man which should have been the best, I dont think Shawn had a bad match that year
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bret had some crap opponents during the middle of his career. Yes he stink it up with HBK in the Ironman, and yes his match with Taker at SS should have been twenty times better, but whenever he was in the ring with a guy who could go, he knocked it out of the park. His King of the Ring 1993 performances were absolutely flawless, I legit can't decide which of the 3 is the best, they are all easily over ****1/4 bouts tho. I don't know if anyone, even HBK or Benoit could have done better that night.

I'm a huge fan of Bret, for anyone that's not I urge you to watch the following matches then get back to me:

Hart foundation vs British bulldogs Madison square garden 1986
Hart foundation vs killer bees from the hart set
Hart foundation vs Midnight Rockers from the hart set
Bret hart vs mr. Perfect Summerslam 1991
Bret hart vs Razor Ramon KoR93
Bret hart vs Mr. Perfect KoR93
Bret hart vs bam bam KoR93
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin WM13 (GOAT match for me, nothing tops it)

By my count, that's 3-5star bouts including the greatest match of all time. Al the rest are ****1/4 and above.. Not too shabby


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker and Rey Mysterio are not wrong answers at all. Chris Benoit will automatically be inserted in the mix because he's simply the greatest in the ring, second place is his ghost, then after that is every other great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Brilliant. Utterly grand. I remember Yeah1993 and others pimping it and boy I feel lame that it's taken me THIS long to finally see it. I fancy myself a big bloke who's always loved Homicide _(and Low Ki for that matter)_ so seeing them heel it up in truly tremendous fashion was golden. Joe was the perfect bad ass foil for the heels to want and not interact with while the banged up Lethal was great with his face in peril role. Much like he did throughout the entire feud, he took a licking. I like to think this is the match where those who never wanted to give Homicide any due for his work should watch. You think "typical indie format" where they tried to make things have a lot of heat and that would be a gross misconception. This was something else. Outside of some great Homicide matches I've always loved prior, this had made it's way all the up there. Arguably as probably my favorite performance from him too. Got to by my favorite of his from 2005. Again, arguably by a mile when I look back at it. His brawls & wrestling matches really did go back and forth in terms of top notch quality that year. From key hard work performances vs Gibson, Aries, & Williams to the brawls vs Danielson & Cabana - they all proved something. Then this tag comes along and is right above the lot. T'was a stellar 18 minutes. Easily stole the show. One spot where Joe was finally getting to kick ass on the Rotts & Ki breaks up a nearfall by double stomping Joe half way across the ring. Landing on his floating ribs too. FUCK that's so awesome. Ki double stomped the hell out of Lethal's head into the mat during the FIP segment too. :mark:
> 
> Post-match brawl was GOOD GRIEF. Low Ki got busted open after taking a chair Joe threw right into his face. You knew when it happened too. Of course, while that was only one nutty aspect of the brawl, blood & that event will forever belong to Ace Steel. That was a little hard to watch and I'm awful enough to love bloody scenes in wrestling.


Yes!!! That's one of my go-to matches when I'm in an ROH mood. Everything about it is awesome. The spot over on the bleachers with Ki and Lethal is pretty nuts too. 

Watch Punk/Cabana yet?



FluxCapacitor said:


> Bret Hart is someone I will never understand the love for. Maybe I haven't watched enough of him, I dunno. I mean, he's good but I'll never for the life of me understand people putting him in the top 10 GOAT, let alone top 5. Whatever. Opinions are bitches.


Never been a huge Bret guy myself. He's certainly had some matches that I really enjoyed, but he's not one of the guys that I really enjoy watching.



FluxCapacitor said:


> ^ My second favourite Bourne singles match in the WWE behind his match with John Morrison on ECW April 2009. Love it so much. Bourne needs to return, now. Is he still injured?


That Bourne/Morrison match OWNS.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

YoungGun_UK said:


> I agree, their have been others but other than Hulk Hogan none of them were really heroes to the children, Rock and Austin were never portrayed in that way and I doubt they ever were looked at for inspiration in the same way Hogan and Cena probably receive.
> 
> I dislike Cena's gimmick but again I get its not aimed at me, its aimed at those 5 to 10 year olds who love him and in some cases are those ill children who hang on his words and like he said 'Never Give Up' on the surface is just a catchphrase but quite clearly it means more to those kids, and for that reason Cena won't take that away from them.
> 
> whether thats just his kayfabe answer or not, it fits John Cena.


The Rock and Austin were more popular with the kids than Cena. There were more kids watching in the AE than now.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That, and "kids" included teens who were heavily into the product during that time.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watched HHH/Jericho LMS for the first time in years. It held up beautifully. Great babyface performance from Jericho and one of the best displays of HHH working a smart, focused control segment to perfection. Really liked how Trips took a move like the sleeper which is pretty standard for him but added a body scissors to it to compound Jericho's rib injury. Getting the knees up into the ribs to block the Lionsault was a perfect cutoff spot too. Jericho's eventual comeback was built to superbly and felt like a huge moment in the match. Fantastic stuff. Top notch work from both guys and a top notch match.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

Trying to download me some PPV's...but what the fuck is going on with XWT? Shit hasn't been working for an eternity.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> WWE MVP worker from 2000-2009?
> 
> I mean despite what you may think of him, it just had to be Rey mysterio. Arguably the best baby face worker ever coupled with amazing quality from match to match, extreme consistency, and longevity (meaning Eddie and Chris DIED). You could say The Undertaker I guess but I like Rey's consistency better.


Forget WWE, Rey's the worldwide 2000s WOTD. As much I hate arguing against him I don't even think Taker comes close.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*John Morrison (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - 2 out of 3 Falls Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship - WWE Smackdown 11/20/09: ***1/2*

Really good match. John Morrison gets the first fall with a small package and Dolph gets the second fall with a pin after the Zig-Zag. Morrison goes into the match with bruised ribs from the previous week and Dolph makes good work over the ribs from using his knees to block the Starship Pain, a gut-buster, and a baseball slide driving Morrison's ribs onto the steel ring post. John Morrison makes a comeback with a spinning DDT and connects the Starship Pain for the victory. Overall, it's a fun TV match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993, I'm gonna need you to rustle up that 'HHH was a draw back in 2000-2001' post when you get the chance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Yes!!! That's one of my go-to matches when I'm in an ROH mood. Everything about it is awesome. The spot over on the bleachers with Ki and Lethal is pretty nuts too.
> 
> Watch Punk/Cabana yet?


Ki double stomps Lethal from the bleachers. Jesus christ :lol

Nah, but I will in a bit. Outside of some current New Japan I need to finish, today may be an all ROH day. Still got a decent amount of shows left to watch. Including Northern Navigation next.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Guys, not to whore myself out, but could you please check out a little story I did in he BTB section. It's not a show booking, it's a just a little story. It's called WWE Summer School 2013. I put a lot of effort into it and I would like some feedback.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah1993, I'm gonna need you to rustle up that 'HHH was a draw back in 2000-2001' post when you get the chance.


The GOAT thread is gone and beyond the reach of anyone who isn't staff, me thinks.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn, the GOAT thread is gone forever? But I wanted to see my boy Rock316AE explain to us why The Rock is the greatest technical wrestler of all-time!

:rock


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The GOAT thread is gone and beyond the reach of anyone who isn't staff, me thinks.


NOOOOOOOO


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *John Morrison (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - 2 out of 3 Falls Match for the WWE Intercontinental Championship - WWE Smackdown 11/20/09: ***1/2*
> 
> Really good match. John Morrison gets the first fall with a small package and Dolph gets the second fall with a pin after the Zig-Zag. Morrison goes into the match with bruised ribs from the previous week and Dolph makes good work over the ribs from using his knees to block the Starship Pain, a gut-buster, and a baseball slide driving Morrison's ribs onto the steel ring post. John Morrison makes a comeback with a spinning DDT and connects the Starship Pain for the victory. Overall, it's a fun TV match.


Great review. 

Damn good match that was. Real solid stuff. That's when both guys were on fire back in 2009 (along with Punk and Taker). They had some other good encounters on Smackdown that year also. Feel like giving them a re-watch.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I feel like I say this every other week, but I miss Morrison


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah1993, I'm gonna need you to rustle up that 'HHH was a draw back in 2000-2001' post when you get the chance.





Yeah1993 said:


> The GOAT thread is gone and beyond the reach of anyone who isn't staff, me thinks.





The Lady Killer said:


> NOOOOOOOO


Is this what you're after?

----------------------------------------------------

CHECK THIS SHIT OUT.

Raw results of January 2000, citing the main events of the show:

January 3, 2000 
The Rock vs. The New Age Outlaws and X-Pac in a Your Fired Handicap Match
January 10, 2000 
D-X vs. The Acolytes and The Rock and Sock Connection
January 17, 2000 
The New Age Outlaws vs. The Rock and the Big Show
January 24, 2000 
Triple H and The Big Show vs. The Rock and Rikishi Phatu
January 31, 2000 
Triple H vs. Kane; Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn, Dean Malenko and Eddy Guerrero appear


NOW. RAW RATINGS (!!!!!!!!) SHOWING THE...RATINGS FOR EACH WEEK (IN JANUARY ONLY)
1/3/00	6.5
1/10/00	6.6
1/17/00	6.0
1/24/00	6.7
1/31/00	6.6

SOOOOOO....

Jan. 3rd - Rock in main event, HHH not in main event - 6.5
Jan 10th - Rock in main event WITH HHH - 6.6 (up from last week with no hhh) HHH IS PROOF GOAT 1
Jan 17th - Rock in main event, HHH not in main event - 6.0 (down from last week w/ goat hhh in main event) HHH IS PROOF GOAT 2
Jan 24th - Rock in main event w/ HHH - 6.7 (massive jump from last with rock in main event w/out goat hhh in main event) HHH IS PROOF GOAT 3
Jan 31st - HHH in main event, Rock isn't - 6.6 (.1 drop, but drew bigger than the weeks rock was in main event w/out goat hhh) HHH IS PROOF GOAT 4


HHH IS PROOF GOAT 5:



Spoiler: !



HE'S MARRIED TO THEEEEEEEEEEEEEESE:

(I MEAN 'HER'):












:Rock3 : "AW HELL NAW I can't match that. HHH is GOAT"
-exact quote from the Rock. A TV Guide said so.


U phayle.

----------------------------------------------


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao yeah

Thanks. :hb


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GOAT HHH

Tried to watch HHH/HBK Summerslam '02 earlier. I say tried because I got hungry and decided I wasn't enjoying the match enough to postpone eating any longer. Don't think I'll bother to go back to it either. I thought HHH was fine but Michaels was actively bad in it. I guess their Raw '03 match is the only one I still hold in high regard. Shame.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I feel like I say this every other week, but I miss Morrison


I do too 

Even though it's obvious that the man can't talk, but he could go in the ring and that's what made him entertaining to me.

Top 5 favorite Morrison matches:

1. vs. Rey Mysterio - WWE Smackdown 9/4/09
2. vs. CM Punk - ECW 9/4/07
3. vs. Sheamus - WWE TLC 2010
4. vs. The Miz - WWE Raw 1/3/11
5. vs. Jeff Hardy - WWE Smackdown 7/31/09


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus/Morrison ladder match :mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Morrison/Sheamus - TLC '10
Morrison/Mysterio - SD 9/4/09
Morrison/Punk - SD July '09 and ECW Sept '07 (another good one in June I believe)
Morrison/Bourne - ECW April '09
Morrison/Miz - FCA January '11
Morrison/Miz vs Yang/Moore - ECW Jan '08
Morrison/Edge - SD June (I think) '09

Goddamn I wish he'd come back to WWE.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Morrison/Miz vs DX was pretty good, too, no?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Morrison & Miz vs Michaels & Mysterio on RAW in 2008 when Morrison OWNED Shawn with Sweet Chin Music was good. Morrison is so legit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Maybe that's the one I'm thinking of. I remember the SCM to Michaels.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Those two matches pretty good as well. (Y)

FUCK. We never got HBK/Morrison one on one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's actually quite a number of tag team matches on WWE TV in 2008 that I've been wanting to go back and see how they are. I went through some on RAW like the Cena/Cryme Tyme vs JBL & Priceless six man tags _(which are really good; especially the first despite the very ass finish)_ & Cena/Batista vs Priceless I which ended up being a truly awesome match that's never discussed. I know Kane & Henry vs Matt Hardy & Mysterio happened two times on RAW too. I only remember the finishes so the potential of getting some more sweet gems is high.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

He's also had some good matches with Drew McIntyre.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> There's actually quite a number of tag team matches on WWE TV in 2008 that I've been wanting to go back and see how they are. I went through some on RAW like the Cena/Cryme Tyme vs JBL & Priceless six man tags _(which are really good; especially the first despite the very ass finish)_ & Cena/Batista vs Priceless I which ended up being a truly awesome match that's never discussed. I know Kane & Henry vs Matt Hardy & Mysterio happened two times on RAW too. I only remember the finishes so the potential of getting some more sweet gems is high.


My God, I can't remember any of this. 

2008 on the whole has some gems though.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

I'm really betting a Christian DVD will come out in about 1 month. I'm thinking Christian will win the WHC title at Summerslam (doesn't matter what happens after). But, his promo was pretty "DVD" hinting, in my opinion. 

Would be pretty awesome too; however, it might overlap a lot of Christian matches.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Skyfall said:


> I'm really betting a Christian DVD will come out in about 1 month. I'm thinking Christian will win the WHC title at Summerslam (doesn't matter what happens after). But, his promo was pretty "DVD" hinting, in my opinion.
> 
> Would be pretty awesome too; however, it might overlap a lot of Christian matches.


You are aware that if Christian had a DVD on the way out next month we would have known at least 6 months ago right? You are aware how DVD production works?

Also what the hell is a DVD hinting promo? "Oh I may win on Sunday, if only I had a handy collection of my own matches to tune up some of my moves, hm..."

Also no chance of a Christian set because it would sell horrifically, like that Superstar Billy Graham DVD bad.

In fact they should have done a Mike Graham DVD, he truely was one of the most under-rated wrestlers ever, seriously all of you should talk about Mike Graham more, Cal agrees, I managed to turn him round to the man, fairly sure Yeah's a nut for him too.

Also @ TheeJayBee: XWT got DDOS-ed, gonna assume that means zilch to you, it'll be back soon.

2008 is just a really weird year, like I know the major plots of the year but then I'm like "Oh yeah, Bam Neely existed" or "God, JBL had that run from late 07 to Mania 25" or just whatever the fuck Tony Atlas was doing with life.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Tbh, that Christian video package hinted at retirement more than anything else imo.


----------



## wayneyb (Jun 26, 2007)

Can anyone help out with anywhere/anyone I can pick up a set of Smackdown 2003 DVDs from?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Torrent it and burn to DVD if you wish.

Anywho, holy shit I just realized that MVP was with the WWE up until late 2010. :shocked:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

any of those JOMO/drew matches worth it ? About to get into y2j/rey the bash in second, maybe that tag from 08 after


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> Torrent it and burn to DVD if you wish.
> 
> Anywho, holy shit I just realized that MVP was with the WWE up until late 2010. :shocked:


The one that always gets me is the fact Scotty 2 Hotty was around until 2007.

That or Val Venis being there until 2009

Or Funaki until 2010 (Swear to god if they kept KUNG FU NAKI going it would have started a new boom period)

Also JTG is still employed, keep that in mind at all times.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I really thought Kung Fu naki had tons of potential as well. You'd at least think that it would have beena mainstay gimmick considering the fact that it gimmick came about when WWE was at its most PG.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Or Steven Richards being around until 2008.

lol @ Val Venis. I don't think he won a match from 2004 onwards.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

People's opinions on Triple H/Austin from No Mercy 1999, Six Pack Challenge from Unforgiven 1999, and Triple H/Vince from Armageddon 1999? 

The No Mercy match wasn't too bad. Match was No Holds Barred, Attitude Era-style brawl, doesn't start in the ring, but is all over the place, and once they get to the ring, Mike Chioda takes some pretty sweet bumps. GOAT REFEREE. Enjoyed this match. 

Six Pack Challenge has some cool moments. Austin GOATs on commentary. Foley refuse to fight the Rock because he'd rather have the Rock N' Sock Connection than the title, until the end when he hits Rock with the double underhook DDT. Rock gets huge fucking pops every time he even breathes. I forget just how over he was. 

Vince/Trips was okay. Thought it went too long, but they're in the parking lot for like 7 minutes near the end. I'm curious to know if people saw Steph's heel turn coming, or if they even remember that.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/austin was just a generic AE main event IMO just much shorter than their nwo 01 match, havent seen the others

Rey/Jericho BASH is still great


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> Or Steven Richards being around until 2008.


Ok, now you're just fucking with me lol.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Anyone seen Yokozuna/Bret Steel Cage from 1994? I think it was pre-Mania.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cleavage said:


> Anyone seen Yokozuna/Bret Steel Cage from 1994? I think it was pre-Mania.


Yeah, I mean it's Yokozuna in a cage so it's never going to be GREAT, but it's fun because of the fact that the son of the guy taping it is so invested in the match. He obviously still thinks that wrestling is real, so it's funny to listen to. One of the few times I actually prefer a hand held video over a professional one.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Same here. I started watching it one night but I honestly did not get into it. I'm not such a big fan of fan-cam matches which is largely a reason why I have not watch the Bret/Flair Iron Man match yet. Bret/Owen had an Iron Man match too, and recorded a bit better than the Yoko match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Both of those Iron Man matches are boring, IMO, until they get toward the end. It basically re-enforced to me even more that the Bret/Shawn Iron Man match truly isn't bad, despite that being an unpopular opinion here. _This_ is a boring Iron Man match.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

^
If that's the case I can probably save myself 60 minutes. Oh well, everyone can't do broadway like Flair/Windham, Lawler/Race, and Bockwinkel/Hennig.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Val Venis won a match past 2004. He defeated CM Punk in 2005.

the world is now sharing a collective gasp.


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

Just watched Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels @ Wrestlemania 26:

Pretty slow start. The leg-injury early on from Undertaker wasn't interesting. 

Why would an ankle lock work when it's Undertaker's knee that is in pain. Knee does not = Ankle. Michaels should have done the Sharpshooter.

Also, I must say that Undertaker did a terrible job at selling the leg injury. He just moved around like he was drunk or dizzy. His facial expressions didn't show pain but tiredness. It looked fake.

The Tombstone spot on the outside was cool, but they took too long to get back in the ring and pin. It could have been a better near-fall.

It was a blitz of signature moves. Let me describe the last 10-15 minutes, as I watch it:

Michaels did a kip-up (1). Undertaker responds with a Chokeslam (2). They go outside -- Tombstone (3). Back inside, Michaels goes for the Elbow Drop (4). He misses. Undertaker does Hells Gate (5). Michaels counters. Sweet Chin (6)! Undertaker kicks out. Michaels tries Sweet Chin again (7). Undertaker counters with the Last Ride (8). Kick out -- they go outside, Undertaker tries Last Ride (9) through a table. Michaels counters and does Sweet Chin Music (10). Undertaker on the announce table. Michaels does a moonsault on it. Back in the ring. Michaels executes yet another Sweet Chin Music (11). That doesn't work. Michaels tries again (12), but it's countered into a Chokeslam (13). Undertaker then picks Michaels up, and does a Tombstone (14). Michaels kicks out. After the strap pull-down + slap sequence, Undertaker does another Tombstone (15).

*15* consecutive signature moves. That is cheap. Is that all it takes to satisfy you guys? 

I'm not averse to signature moves, but let the match breathe a little bit.

A very overrated match from two otherwise very consistent performers. 

They could have done better with Michaels last match. Pay homage to his career. 

For instance, instance of a moonsault, let him do the splash from the ladder ala Razor Ramon @ Wrestlemania 10. With Undertaker's leg injury, let Michaels do the Sharpshooter (Bret @ 'Mania 12).

An average match, at best.

Grade = C+


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Val Venis won a match past 2004. He defeated CM Punk in 2005.
> 
> the world is now sharing a collective gasp.


:lmao

At the houseshow I went to in '06 he got squashed by OLEG PRODIUS who later became Vladimir Kozlov.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched some of these Morrison/Miz tag matches that you guys mentioned. Lots of real fun gems that I enjoyed watching. Any more you guys can recommend?

vs. Mysterio/HBK I: ****1/2*
vs. DX: ****1/4*
vs. Yang/Moore: ****3/4*

Morrison is such a G. I understood the criticism behind his mic work, but why did people call him a spot monkey?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've never understood calling Morrison a spot monkey. He can do spots, but he's also just plain good in the ring. 

And man, I love that Morrison/Miz vs Yang/Moore match. Wish that made the Morrison DVD, which is still one of the most satisfying DVDs WWE has put out, imo. Not a bad match on it despite it being one disc.



HayleySabin said:


> There's actually quite a number of tag team matches on WWE TV in 2008 that I've been wanting to go back and see how they are. I went through some on RAW like the Cena/Cryme Tyme vs JBL & Priceless six man tags _(which are really good; especially the first despite the very ass finish)_ & Cena/Batista vs Priceless I which ended up being a truly awesome match that's never discussed. I know Kane & Henry vs Matt Hardy & Mysterio happened two times on RAW too. I only remember the finishes so the potential of getting some more sweet gems is high.


I love Cena/Batista vs Priceless and I always forget it exists. Need to check out Cena/CT vs JBL/Priceless. I imagine that being good. I'm sure I saw it when it happened but I don't remember.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Spot monkey is an overused term, or at least it's overly misused. It seems some people just like to toss it out to describe any high flyer. I don't know if they don't like or understand high flying wrestling, or they just don't like the wrestlers so they use it to demean these wrestlers, but I usually don't take them seriously.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> :lmao
> 
> At the houseshow I went to in '06 he got squashed by OLEG PRODIUS who later became Vladimir Kozlov.


Bet Punk didn't love DOUBLE DOUBLE E after that moment.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Watched some of these Morrison/Miz tag matches that you guys mentioned. Lots of real fun gems that I enjoyed watching. Any more you guys can recommend?
> 
> vs. Mysterio/HBK I: ****1/2*
> vs. DX: ****1/4*
> ...


Ignorance to justify displeasure towards a worker "they" didn't personally enjoy? Idk. The claim never fit him. I don't like that term as it is. I only use it for one wrestler ever in the history of the sport: AR Fox. b/c he actually IS one.

As for another tag team gem I can think of that could be worth the time:

Kane & Priceless vs Punk, Mysterio, Bourne, & Kingston - RAW 9/29/08

Edge & Chris Jericho vs Carlito & Primo - RAW 6/29/09 _(rematch on 7/6/09 too but I think it may be the same type of match iirc. Remember the first being fun.)_

Cody Rhodes & Drew McIntyre vs Christian & Matt Hardy - Smackdown 7/23/10

CM Punk & John Morrison vs World's Greatest Tag Team - Smackdown 5/15/09

John Morrison & Mike Mizanin vs Carlito & Primo - Smackdown 3/13/09 _(another sidenote, why with the Colons again, b/c I'm normally not a fan? Anyways iirc all their tag matches clicked and were worth a watch. Again, all more on memory than any recent watches.)_

Christian & Finlay vs Mark Henry & Jack Swagger - ECW 2/17/09

Christian, Mark Henry, & Yoshi Tatsu vs William Regal, Jack Swagger, & Zack Ryder - Superstars 3/18/10

I just went off the top of my head and named a bunch.



Brye said:


> And man, I love that Morrison/Miz vs Yang/Moore match. Wish that made the Morrison DVD, which is still one of the most satisfying DVDs WWE has put out, imo. Not a bad match on it despite it being one disc.
> 
> I love Cena/Batista vs Priceless and I always forget it exists. Need to check out Cena/CT vs JBL/Priceless. I imagine that being good. I'm sure I saw it when it happened but I don't remember.


I still have to own the Morrison set. Someday. 

Oh they're plenty good. Really sharp work and the best part is the six man tags were made to feel special. I miss that. Reminds me of the territory days when those tag matches click and the heat from the audience is immense. It can be very underrated when the crowd adores Cena 100%. I prefer that GREATLY to the often heard mixed reactions we hear.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redban said:


> Just watched Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels @ Wrestlemania 26:
> 
> Pretty slow start. The leg-injury early on from Undertaker wasn't interesting.
> 
> ...


To each their own, but *EPIC storytelling*, epic drama (all those finishers were actually teased and built to and not just spawned outta nowhere Angle-style), "bad selling" aka Taker on 1 leg due to pain (which is good selling) and whatnot = average?

Ok then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My favorite signature move that they busted out was the kip-up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mine was the Shawn Michaels Bitchslap. GOAT move.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Craig said:


> 2008 is just a really weird year, like I know the major plots of the year but then I'm like "Oh yeah, Bam Neely existed" or "God, JBL had that run from late 07 to Mania 25" or just whatever the fuck Tony Atlas was doing with life.












Watch Hardy/Henry from 8/19/08 ECW whilst we're discussing Atlas and Henry you scoundrel. 

Bourne/Chavo from 10/14 is also great and Yeah1993 loves it to death. Can only find a link with the match in progress though annoyingly.

It never gets talked about here but Regal/Dreamer from 11/8/09 is also a terrific 8 minute affair. Dreamer has a legit injury IIRC from a match a couple of weeks before and Regal just focuses on it relentlessly throughout. Dreamer's selling is excellent and he sells throughout his brief comeback and it plays right into the finish which is a delicious Regal combo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought the Regal vs Dreamer match only went five? That's my collective effort to your discussion. But it serves a purpose: means the quality put in was really good in an even shorter span.

This brings up a good topic as I watched a Tommy Dreamer match from 2013 today. I always thought his work in WWE was underrated in some portions. All on the aspect that his natural _(and general if not prototypical)_ come from behind babyface work aided him in most matches that stood out. Not to mention some of the work he put forth was just plain good. I'm talking his entire WWF/WWE tenure. 2001 - 2003 & the 2006 - 2009 days. His brief match with Eddie on Sunday Night Heat in 2002 was actually very fun for one swift example. Or anytime he got squashed by Henry. Except for the match they had on PPV. why did that one tank but the TV ones were good?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I thought it was over 5 minutes off hand but it was certainly a fairly short match by modern standards. Anytime Regal gets to meticulously dissect a bodypart however and has at worst a competent seller will always result in something productive so its no surprise the match turned out as well as it did.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Craig said:


> Also no chance of a Christian set because it would sell horrifically, like that Superstar Billy Graham DVD bad.


If John Morrison can get a DVD set, I don't see why Christian can't. Christian's had a much more long and successful career than Morrison's had, and there would be plenty to fill a DVD with. If they ever came out with a Christian DVD I know I would buy it asap because Christian's my favorite wrestler of all time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I thought it was over 5 minutes off hand but it was certainly a fairly short match by modern standards. Anytime Regal gets to meticulously dissect a bodypart however and has at worst a competent seller will always result in something productive so its no surprise the match turned out as well as it did.


You know me, I time this glorious sport to know this junk for moments like these.

_*looks in notebook for duration*_

5:15. 

I remember watching this match vividly too when it aired. b/c I got to see it while I was out at a friend's pad. They wanted to shoot the shit and smoke out on the patio and since smoking can gtfo, I said I just wanted to watch ECW while they engage in a disgusting habit. Then I saw Regal work his magic. I won. Made the correct decision. These are the useless facts I'm going to bring from now on.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

Anyone going to purchase the WWE Best of In Your House DVD/Blu Ray?


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Nostalgia said:


> If John Morrison can get a DVD set, I don't see why Christian can't. Christian's had a much more long and successful career than Morrison's had, and there would be plenty to fill a DVD with. If they ever came out with a Christian DVD I know I would buy it asap because Christian's my favorite wrestler of all time.


You know I was going to use that as my example instead of the Billy Graham DVD?

The Morrison DVD was an experiment to see if lower card guys could sell well with a reduced price, 1 disc DVD... they couldn't, hence why you've never saw another DVD like that and the only other announced one in that line (A Kofi one) was given away free with WWE magazine.



Brye said:


> :lmao
> 
> At the houseshow I went to in '06 he got squashed by OLEG PRODIUS who later became Vladimir Kozlov.


I LOVE DOUBLE DOUBLE E


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I ALREADY MADE THAT JOKE, CRAIG.

Speaking of Kozlov, now there's a non-pretty worker who had his decent share of matches I liked too. vs Undertaker & Christian. Good shit.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Wait, they gave away a Kofi DVD free with a $2 magazine? :lmao

How very fitting.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I heard it was only available on PPV. Like those old things where monthly WWF had those specials which were released on VHS _(like Three Faces of Foley)_ available to buy on PPV and watch. The magazine solution sounds like the more suitable deal.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Turns out it was on the magazine in the UK and PPV in the US, huh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> To each their own, but *EPIC storytelling*, epic drama (all those finishers were actually teased and built to and not just spawned outta nowhere Angle-style), "bad selling" aka Taker on 1 leg due to pain (which is good selling) and whatnot = average?
> 
> Ok then.


This x10000.

That match was the best Main Event in the History of WrestleMania in my book, the drama and story telling had me completely hooked, and HBK going down in a blaze of glory was totally fitting. Shawn Michaels has said that WM26 is his favorite match of his career, and with good reason. There isn't a better way for the greatest in ring performer in WWE to go out.

Just watched a match between Brock and Rey Mysterio that takes place on Smackdown back in 2003, the match was on Rey's birthday. This match was so much fun, it was kind of similar to the match he had with Angle at SS02, although not quite as amazing as that one. The match starts with Brock just giggling and holding up 2 fingers to Rey saying "your just a little guy!". Obviously Rey takes offense and tries to tie up with Brock only to get thrown around like a rag doll. Then Rey does a funny spot in the match with Brock where he just takes off and starts running around darting in one side of the ring and out the other, and keeps doing it for a solid minute. That might sound boring to you but I'm telling you it was so much fun to watch. Rey was awesome as per the usual, he did a great job coming off as a legit threat to Lesnar, working leg kicks and quick acrobatic counters to frustrate Brock. Finally in the end Brock catches Rey and grounds him, forcing him to submit to the Brock Lock (I hope he uses this submission on Punk at SS, it looks like it fucking kills smaller guys like Rey and Benoit). Solid **** bout, about as good as you can expect a 12 minute TV bout between 2 great workers.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Craig said:


> You know I was going to use that as my example instead of the Billy Graham DVD?
> 
> The Morrison DVD was an experiment to see if lower card guys could sell well with a reduced price, 1 disc DVD... they couldn't, hence why you've never saw another DVD like that and the only other announced one in that line (A Kofi one) was given away free with WWE magazine.


Yeah, but Christian isn't a Morrison or Kofi though. Like him or not, he simply isn't. He's a respected veteran, former World Champion, and has had a career that goes all the way back to the Attitude Era. Sure, he's been midcarder for nearly all of his career, but his sheer amount of accomplishments and longevity in the company has given him a great, Hall of Fame worthy career with many classic moments and matches that could fill several discs on a DVD. 

Morrison's career could only fill one DVD disc anyway, Christian's could fill multiple discs. 

The mark in me really wants a Christian DVD, but I'm not getting my hopes up on it happening.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

If I was in charge of putting together a Christian DVD, I highly doubt I'd even put a PPV match on there besides his ladder match with ADR (if we're not talking E+C as well, but even then I'd probably avoid that seeing as the majority of their good PPV matches have already been released). I could probably fill one disk with ECW TV matches and another with his Superstars and SD matches from 2010 onwards.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

His Over the Limit match with Orton and maybe their SS one deserve to be on that DVD too


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

someone give man some good christian matches not with swagger


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

One Christian match that doesn't get talked about much is against The Miz at Smackdown last year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> One Christian match that doesn't get talked about much is against The Miz at Smackdown last year.


Shame, it was very good. That same night, there was a fun 4-way with ADR, Bryan, Kane and Rey too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What were his matches with Cody like last year? I never saw them. Cody isn't great by any means but looking at Wikipedia, they got a fair bit of time and it wouldn't surprise me if they were atleast decent?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flux what are some good christian matches outisde of the orton series and swagger match ?

How dare you say Cody Rhodes isnt great !!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> If I was in charge of putting together a Christian DVD, I highly doubt I'd even put a PPV match on there besides his ladder match with ADR (if we're not talking E+C as well, but even then I'd probably avoid that seeing as the majority of their good PPV matches have already been released). I could probably fill one disk with ECW TV matches and another with his Superstars and SD matches from 2010 onwards.


Lol.

Wrestlers DVD match lists are about showcasing their careers. And Christian's had a long career, and if I was in charge of his DVD I would show some of his stuff teaming with Edge in the Attitude Era (who gives a shit if it's been released on other sets, Edge and Christian are one of the best teams off all time) some of his early solo work, maybe his feud with Edge after he split from him and turned heel (something I wanted to see on the Edge documentary but they never touched on it). Then I would show some of his Ruthless Aggression stuff, such as teaming with Jericho and his feud with Jericho. Christian matches teaming with Jericho against teams like Booker T and Goldust are well received on here, particularly from members like WOOLCOCK and I'm sure some would like to see those matches again on a DVD set. Christian's feud with Jericho was good too, and I would have his win over Jericho at WrestleMania 20 on a Christian set. And I personally would put some of his 2005 stuff in there because 2005 Christian was just awesome. Then you've got Christian's return in 2009, good ECW matches with the likes of Swagger and Regal, then in 2011 you've got his feud with Del Rio over the World Title, his cage match on Smackdown and ladder match with Del Rio at Extreme Rules I would put on a DVD set, then you've got his great matches with Orton, in particular his match at Over The Limit. All of that + a good documentary is what I want.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Flux what are some good christian matches outisde of the orton series and swagger match ?
> 
> How dare you say Cody Rhodes isnt great !!



I actually really like Cody, I wish he would change his ring gear to some pants or something cause has chicken legs like I do (when he wore trunks with no knee pads he just looked recockulous). I saw a match last year between Cody and Mysterio on Smackdown that was straight up awesome, and I think he had a No Holds Barred match with Orton that was excellent as well.

He's the perfect guy to be IC Champ, and his stuff with Sandow as Rhodes Scholars was just tremendous. Not a lot of younger guys really inspire me in the WWE anymore, but Cody definitely does and he's got boat loads of talent.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rey/Eddie SS 05.............I was actually left a bit speechless after watching it tbh. First time I think I've watched it since it happened truth be told and holy shit, what a match. I'm almost tempted to slap ****3/4 on it. I'll need to watch it again and I will. Damn though. This thing rules the world.

Rhodes is criminally underrated if you ask me. One of the few guys who hasn't been rushed and has been given plenty of time to develop and work through several gimmicks in order to find his feet. When he's been given an opportunity to work a match with some significance behind it he has delivered imo. The WM27 match vs. Rey is a personal favourite of mine and flies way too far under the radar.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> *Rey/Eddie SS 05.............I was actually left a bit speechless after watching it tbh. First time I think I've watched it since it happened truth be told and holy shit, what a match. I'm almost tempted to slap ****3/4 on it. I'll need to watch it again and I will. Damn though. This thing rules the world.
> *
> Rhodes is criminally underrated if you ask me. One of the few guys who hasn't been rushed and has been given plenty of time to develop and work through several gimmicks in order to find his feet. When he's been given an opportunity to work a match with some significance behind it he has delivered imo. The WM27 match vs. Rey is a personal favourite of mine and flies way too far under the radar.


YES. Some appreciation for this pearl. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> YES. Some appreciation for this pearl. :mark:


Is that the ladder match for custody of Domenick?


Edit- just checked and yep it is. I LOVE that match. I'm an unabashed mark for Eddie, my favorite wrestler ever, and Mysterio is one of the top 2-3 BABYFACE only workers of all time along with Steamboat. This match has great story telling,great execution, and an overall great build. If I remember is correctly, Rey botches the sunset flip into power bomb combo that's an Eddie Guerrero invention and ladder match staple (yes he did invent it, he came up with it on the fly in his classic ladder match with rvd on raw) and that took me out of the match momentarily and keeps me from giving it the full *****. As it is, it's a ****1/2 masterpiece and a perfect example of how to climax an epic, dramatic feud. I can watch Eddie and Rey go at it all day, if there was ever chemistry between two wrestlers, these two had it. Besides their ***** classic at Halloween Havoc 97', I think this might be my second favorite match between the two. The build was that good and the payoff was a perfect climax match to an all time great feud.

I can't gush enough about this match or about Eddie and Rey in general.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is that the ladder match? I hear it gets shit on a ton. I always enjoyed it. Maybe not ****3/4 though. Would have to view it again. I know for a fact that fucking Dominic storyline deducts at least *1/4, though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Totally didn't care for Rey/Eddie at Summerslam. Eddie's tantrum though :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Best promo I ever seen and its fanmade :mark:







Never seen eddie/rey ladder


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is that the ladder match? I hear it gets shit on a ton. I always enjoyed it. Maybe not ****3/4 though. Would have to view it again. I know for a fact that fucking Dominic storyline deducts at least *1/4, though.


I can understand why some people might not like it. The story line sounds like something straight off of Maury Povich, and the match wasn't a spectacular spot fest like a lot of the well regarded ladder matches are. 

Me though? I live for stuff like that. I love the story line, I love the drama, I love the performers involved, and most of all I loved the execution. You could give that storyline to CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, and it would probably be considered the most stupid and ridiculous thing ever conceived by WWE Creative. But giving it to Eddie and Rey JUST WORKED. The history those two have, coupled with the way they dedicated themselves to the story, created a fantastic build. The fact that the match was as good as it was is just cream on the top. It wasn't flawless, I mentioned the power bomb botch and I'm sure there was atleast one more, but that hardly mattered by the time the ending came. Eddies tantrum was classic. 

Wanna know something funny? I love this ladder match that I know a lot of people hate, but I'm really not a big fan of the ladder match Jericho and Michaels had at No Mercy 2008. People LOVE that match but I just can't get into it. It's so generic,there was not a lot of creative spots, the work was loose and sloppy for the most part, and it just never really had me on the edge of my seat like most good ladder matches do. I can't in good conscience give that match more than ***1/2. Sometimes I think people were just like "omg hbk in a ladder match instant ***** classic" and never realized how average it really is. And this is coming from a huge Jericho and hbk mark.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Eddie/Rey from SSlam '05 is How To Respectively Play A Face And A Heel 101. Such a fucking shame it had its slopiness and storyline.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I do like the Eddie/Rey ladder match, but I just hated that storyline. To each their own, though. More power to you if it actually enhanced the feud. 

I love Jericho/HBK ladder if only for Jericho's performance. I think he outworked Shawn quite a bit in that one.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Dominic storyline was a load of crap but whatever, the match still rocked and actually, panning back to little Eminem throughout the match didn't bother me at all. Eddie about to slap the taste out of his mouth was a real uncomfortable moment. The ending was a bit messy but I thought it just summed up the chaotic and reckless nature of the whole thing. At the end of the day this is wrestling. Whack ass storylines are welcome, especially when you get a match like this where the performers make it work to such an insane level. Greatness.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

On a completely different topic, can someone please explain to me the "Paul, say something stupid" comment made by Brock in that backstage promo? Why the fuck did he say that? :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Flux what are some good christian matches outisde of the orton series and swagger match ?
> 
> How dare you say Cody Rhodes isnt great !!


His matches with Regal are good-great bar Summerslam, naturally. IIRC he had a good couple of matches with Tyson Kidd and DH Smith in 2009 on ECW TV, as well as his title matches against Zack Ryder and Yoshi Tatsu. I really liked the six man between Christian, Henry and Tatsu against Regal, Swagger and Ryder on Superstars, which I think was March/April 2010. I know a lot of people enjoy his match with Zeke at The Rumble in 2010, although I haven't seen it in a long while, and I've yet to see their match on the final ECW. He and Matt Hardy then had a brief feud with Cody Rhodes and Drew McIntyre during the summer of 2010 on Smackdown which produced some nice matches, especially the 23/7/10 tag match between the four which I really like, but definitely check out the Drew/Christian matches and the Drew/Hardy matches whilst you're at it. 

From there I'm drawing a blank, especially when it comes to 2011. I remember enjoying a Daniel Bryan match on Smackdown, and I'm sure the matches he had with Sheamus are worth watching but I can't guarantee it. The only thing that jumps out at me is his match on Superstars with Drew last year, which is what you'd expect from the two and is what Superstars should be. I'm crappy with dates, I'm sure someone more knowledgable and less forgetful can pinpoint some exact dates for you. With someone the caliber of Christian though, it's once of those cases where you can never go wrong by just going out on a limb and watching any old match of his and chances are you'll enjoy it.

*@Nostalgia* I get what you mean, although I don't really care for documentaries and I'd much rather have unreleased gems in perfect quality. As a somewhat-knowledgeable fan/mark, I know how Christian's career has panned out so I don't really care for a running timeline in the form of matches. But thats just me being me.

And in terms of me not thinking Cody is great, I didn't know anybody particularly did. I mean, his character work was great during the dashing/undashing days, but I've never seen anything (off the top of my head) that makes me want to call him great in terms of his ring work. He's not bad by any means, but IMO he's not the type to be able to carry "less than medicore" talent to a decent match. His best work was with Rey, but anybody working with Rey will generally churn out at least decent stuff. I'll happily be proven wrong though


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One Eddie/Rey I don't remember being as good as they say though is the JD '05 one. Iirc it was just there for me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> On a completely different topic, can someone please explain to me the "Paul, say something stupid" comment made by Brock in that backstage promo? Why the fuck did he say that? :lmao


No one should attempt to analyze what Brock says on a live mic. :brock


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> On a completely different topic, can someone please explain to me the "Paul, say something stupid" comment made by Brock in that backstage promo? Why the fuck did he say that? :lmao


Because he's Brock Lesnar and he can say whatever the hell he wants.

Do you feel what he's feeling? FEEL IT.

:brock


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao touche.

edit :brock


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Flux what are some good christian matches outisde of the orton series and swagger match ?


Christian's '09 was full of great stuff. Outside of the Swagger series he gave Tyson Kidd, Zach Ryder and Yoshi Tatsu their best matches. Then there's the Regal matches. Start with those, then there's the Del Rio 2011 series. I'm sure I'm forgetting a fair few TV gems but it can't be hard to find good Christian matches. He's been consistently good since he returned to the WWE. Actually, his TNA PPV matches with Joe and Angle are well worth watching too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> The Dominic storyline was a load of crap but whatever, the match still rocked and actually, panning back to little Eminem throughout the match didn't bother me at all. Eddie about to slap the taste out of his mouth was a real uncomfortable moment. The ending was a bit messy but I thought it just summed up the chaotic and reckless nature of the whole thing. At the end of the day this is wrestling. Whack ass storylines are welcome, especially when you get a match like this where the performers make it work to such an insane level. Greatness.


Couldn't have said it better myself


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> One Eddie/Rey I don't remember being as good as they say though is the JD '05 one. Iirc it was just there for me.


I liked their Great American Bash match better. Their match on Smackodwn 6/23/05 also rocks.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

eddie/rey JD 05 is incredible ? I have it at ****1/2 eddie heel performance is out of this world in that match


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Jericho from Payback isn't good... don't like it at all. I suppose the ring rust story had its merits but it didn't engage me at all. Don't think either guy was very good. Their Wrestlemania match shits all over this. Not very high on their Extreme Rules street fight but that was comfortably better than this too. Thumbs down.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lord Flvcko said:


> Their match on Smackodwn 6/23/05 also rocks.


Isn't that Yeah1993's favorite match?

edit Yeah1993


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To me here's how I'd place Eddie/Rey 2005 stuff as far as I'm concerned:

SD 6/23 > SD Steel Cage > SummerSlam > SD 1/6 > The Great American Bash > Judgment Day > WrestleMania.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

their march 04 need some lovin as well, I love face eddie


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rey-Eddie from Summerslam 2005 being acknowledged as a near perfect bout, what universe am I currently living in exactly?

If we're talking about Rey Vs Eddie greatness, the conversation begins and ends with the 6/23/2005 bout, one of the greatest matches in North American history and perhaps the greatest singles performance to boot, with Eddie's character showing slight signs of change throughout the match with subtleties until busting out into a full and all out heel explosion. Rey is a valiant babyface in the bout for sure, but if we're talking character work, watch that Guerrero performance and then go to school with it because it's awe inspiring.

Then, after you talk about the 6/23/2005 bout for like 46 days straight because it's that good, that's when you can shift your focus over to the Judgment Day, Great American Bash, Halloween Havoc, & various Nitro matches that just so happen to be classics as well. Whether it be back and forth action such as the WCW bouts, or strict character and storytelling epics like Great American Bash, Eddie and Rey delivered the goods better than most chemistries in the history of wrestling no doubt. I think the Summerslam match is actually really good given the circumstances surrounding it, but it wouldn't come close to my top 7-8 Rey Vs Eddie bouts. As a matter of fact, the only Rey-Eddie bout that I didn't like might happen to be Wrestlemania XXI. Their Smackdown 2004 bout was okay but the face Vs face dynamic between them was MEH. Maybe I like the Summerslam match better than that one.. Maybe.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Also, MNM/Holly & Haas and London/Chavo from JD '05 need some respect too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching Eddie/Rey matches now. JD, 6/23/Smackdown, GAB.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Their three BEST as far as I'm concerned.

Good choices .

(actually. HH 97 might be there too, and a few Nitro matches.. And... FUCK.)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the 04 match alot, I'd go this for their EPIC series 

1) 6/05
2) JD 05
3) 3/04
4) HH 97

I need to watch GAB and the ladder ASAP

---

I saw a poster say before he didnt like hbk/y2j ladder and thought it was generic ? Yea I agree, hell I'm a huge hbk mark and I dont care for most hbk/y2j matches except TGAB


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This match deserves some love too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Never seen the Bash '04 match, but the whole PPV looked and by all accounts is shit so probably why I never bought the DVD lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watched Cena/Mysterio Raw '11 for the first time last night. Great match. What other high flyers has Cena really had an opportunity to work with? The power vs speed aspect worked wonderfully and it was a treat to watch someone bump for Cena in the manner Rey did and make his offense look beastly. Lots of choice counters and sequences, and for me the feeling of mutual respect between the two was vividly portrayed, more so than in most face v face matches. Mysterio using the STF on Cena was crazy. Has anyone ever done that before? I don't think so. Gem of a match.



redskins25 said:


> their march 04 need some lovin as well, I love face eddie


Indeed. Great match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Watched Cena/Mysterio Raw '11 for the first time last night. Great match. What other high flyers has Cena really had an opportunity to work with? The power vs speed aspect worked wonderfully and it was a treat to watch someone bump for Cena in the manner Rey did and make his offense look beastly. Lots of choice counters and sequences, and for me the feeling of mutual respect between the two was vividly portrayed, more so than in most face v face matches. Mysterio using the STF on Cena was crazy. Has anyone ever done that before? I don't think so. Gem of a match.


 Adore that match, everything about it is incredible, I also love the power/speed aspect, in my top 10 maybe 5 raw matches ever. I think its better than cena/punk feb 13


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wish they did Cena/Bourne in 2010 during that little period when Bourne was getting pushed. Could have been real cool.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Need to see Rey/Cena again after Ownage's review. Only time I saw it was when it happened live on Raw.

Brye, when's Bourne due back? Any time now, right?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Never seen the Bash '04 match, but the whole PPV looked and by all accounts is shit so probably why I never bought the DVD lol.


I suppose you mean Bash '05  Yeah, that PPV was terribad. The Main Event was an *atrocity*. Eddie/Rey (and Candice stripping) were the only good stuff. Eddie was brilliant in that one.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I suppose you mean Bash '05  Yeah, that PPV was terribad. The Main Event was an *atrocity*. Eddie/Rey (and Candice stripping) were the only good stuff. Eddie was brilliant in that one.


Ah yeah lol, got mixed up. Bash '04 had the Taker/Dudleyz match didn't it? Saying that, I havnt seen Bash '05 either lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Need to see Rey/Cena again after Ownage's review. Only time I saw it was when it happened live on Raw.
> 
> Brye, when's Bourne due back? Any time now, right?


I think it should be real soon. I remember like a month ago (I think the day they were going to announce the MITB matches) he tweeted a picture of the ring and I figured he'd be back then. But I'm hoping it's soon.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watched MITB 2011 yesterday, and the RAW ladder match made me REALLY miss Bourne and Rey.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Candice/Melina mud match is 5 stars.



redskins25 said:


> Adore that match, everything about it is incredible, I also love the power/speed aspect, in my top 10 maybe 5 raw matches ever. I think its better than cena/punk feb 13


Rey made Cena's top rope leg drop look like one of the sickest leg drops ever. I don't hold it quite as highly as you. Definitely wouldn't make my top 5 Raw matches. There's Raw matches this year I think are better, Cena/Punk is one of them.

It's still GREAT though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Was that right after MITB when Punk "left" with the title? How did Rey originally win the title? Did he lose it to Cena later that night? I don't quite recall.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Was that right after MITB when Punk "left" with the title? How did Rey originally win the title? Did he lose it to Cena later that night? I don't quite recall.


Yeah. He won it the same night against Miz then had to defend against Cena.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Was that right after MITB when Punk "left" with the title? How did Rey originally win the title? Did he lose it to Cena later that night? I don't quite recall.


It was after mitb indeed, raw had a tourney for a new "wwe champ" and the final was miz vs rey which is also pretty good and Rey won. Cena was #1 contender or something and got a title shot the same night and boom Cena won.

Yea I hold it in high regard, great match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's right. How did the Miz/Rey match come about?

edit  Thanks. Forgot they had a tourney.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> I suppose you mean Bash '05  Yeah, that PPV was terribad. The Main Event was an *atrocity*. Eddie/Rey (and Candice stripping) were the only good stuff. Eddie was brilliant in that one.


Benoit got something passable out of Orlando too. And Taker being at war with the "sympathizers" was hilarious, specially when one of them choked him with a tie and his face looked like it was about to explode, coupled with Cole's over the top commentary. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I always felt bad for Rey in that situation. Dude wins the title and then gets totally phased out after Cena wins it from him two hours later.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brye said:


> I always felt bad for Rey in that situation. Dude wins the title and then gets totally phased out after Cena wins it from him two hours later.


Pretty sure they just did it so Rey could get a WWE championship to his name, which he deserved for a brilliant career.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

True. (Y)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is Rey due back this year?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Rey/Cena should have been the main event of Summerslam 2011. Can't believe they pissed away a dream match like that on a throwaway Raw.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Alim said:


> Rey/Cena should have been the main event of Summerslam 2011. Can't believe they pissed away a dream match like that on a throwaway Raw.


Cena/Punk was the hot shit.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I still kinda wished they milked Punk leaving for a while. Would have made the return so much more epic.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> I still kinda wished they milked Punk leaving for a while. Would have made the return so much more epic.


This x1000000000


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Brye said:


> I still kinda wished they milked Punk leaving for a while. Would have made the return so much more epic.


This this this this.

That's when the angle went down hill. Match was great, but fuck it wasn't worth ruining a great angle.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I always think "this is how it should have happened" with that whole angle. I'm pretty sure rey/cena was a suitable main event for the ppv and the whole punk thing could of overshadowed it instead of actually bringing him back so early


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If they had held Punk out until the Rumble, had him be a surprise entrant and win the thing to face Cena for the WWE title at mania? Oh dear lord. :mark: I would have lost it. Rey vs Cena easily could have carried SummerSlam, and after that they could have used the time to build up some rising stars like Bryan, Ziggler, etc by giving them shots at the title. Man.....what a wasted opportunity. How epic would that have been to have entrant number 30 start getting counted down, then when the clock gets to zero Punks old AMAZING Killswitch song would hit (seriously, his old song was easily 200 times better than his current one) and Punk could come running down, Muay Thai kick the shit out of whoever is in the ring, hit the GTs, and cut an epic pipe bomb on raw the night after. :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Punk, at least to himself, still was recognized as the champ, though. He was never defeated. It would've made zero sense for him to enter the Rumble.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Punk, at least to himself, still was recognized as the champ, though. He was never defeated. It would've made zero sense for him to enter the Rumble.


Sure it would, you could still have a title vs title match at Mania, and him being a complete surprise entrant and winning the rumble would have been a giant kick in the ass to the story line. Who says everything in the WWE needs to make sense as long as its really entertaining? Half of the shit WWE does doesn't make sense. Hell, instead of Muay Thai kicking the guys, he could run in with his title while the ref wasn't looking, knock some poor sob out, and win it that way. He could reason it by saying he didn't want to risk being screwed out of the main event at mania and have Cena duck him to wrestle someone like The Miz again.

Speaking of not making sense, why in the shit is trips reffing the Cena vs Bryan match? Seriously? Is there another reason other than triple H trying to latch on to the new hot thing like he has done in the past? I'd love to know if there is any upside to having trips involved in this match. I was hoping against all hope Bryan would have a clean win, now it looks like no matter what it's gonna be a screw finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> What were his matches with Cody like last year? I never saw them. Cody isn't great by any means but looking at Wikipedia, they got a fair bit of time and it wouldn't surprise me if they were atleast decent?


Match from NWO was awesome. Watch it.

Then again, I suppose I'm partial towards Rhodes. He was my favorite guy in 2011 that wasn't CM Punk. And yes, I know Mark Henry was the greatest that same year too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Who says everything in the WWE needs to make sense as long as its really entertaining? Half of the shit WWE does doesn't make sense.


This I can agree with.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We all know why Triple H is reffing the main event. lolz, of course we do.

nah fuck this. annoyance isn't making this the topic. lets talk about Raven. Go.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> We all know why Triple H is reffing the main event. lolz, of course we do.


:bosh



> nah fuck this. annoyance isn't making this the topic. lets talk about Raven. Go.


First thing that comes to mind when I think of Raven is him handcuffed to a steel cage and getting his face smashed in by Tommy Dreamer.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'll always remember the classic Raven/Dreamer feud where Dreamer could never beat him but was always competitive as fuck.

lol this forum would have been like "LOL :berried" after two weeks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> :bosh
> 
> 
> 
> First thing that comes to mind when I think of Raven is him handcuffed to a steel cage and getting his face smashed in by Tommy Dreamer.


we'll try and not argue too much on Sunday. Try. :hayley2

that match is nuts iirc. think it was some sort of war games with the typical ECW overbooking behind it. Feud was awesome, tbhayley.



Brye said:


> I'll always remember the classic Raven/Dreamer feud where Dreamer could never beat him but was always competitive as fuck.
> 
> lol this forum would have been like "LOL :berried" after two weeks.


The final match at Wrestlepolooza '97 is a terrific match.

and touche. you'd have about ten threads on the subject.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rewatched a couple of matches today.

_Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2001 - ★★★★★_

- Holds up to perfection and is now the newest entry into my 5 star list. Greatest ladder match of all time and all it needed was maybe a more consistently loud crowd to make it epic in the same way the TLC matches are.

_Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit - Raw, 16 August 2004 - ★★★★_

- This match is just awesome with excellent storytelling. For like ten minutes, Orton gets no offense in and it's all Benoit. Fits the story as Orton comes in unprepared and Benoit can't wait for the bell to ring since the moment he lost the SummerSlam match. Orton's selling of the Sharpshooter is awesome. He sounds like a baby who's about to cry because he wants something. :lol Then Orton finds an opening and works on Benoit's neck to expose a weakness but he still ended up in the Crossface and even Lawler gave up and thought he was gonna tap until Evolution caused the distraction for an awesome RKO. Then it's the face turn with Evolution turning on him and the rest is history. I'll take this opportunity to point out how funny it looks that Orton's elbow pads come off in every single match.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Marty Jannetty for the WWF Intercontinental Championship - WWF Royal Rumble 1993: *****

What a great match. Sensational Sherri is at ringside, apparently her allegiance is unknown. The match starts off with Jannetty getting the early advantage, hitting Shawn with some high diving moves. Jannetty goes up top one too many times as Shawn catches him while Jannetty goes for another high diving move and the momentum shifts with Shawn ramming Jannetty's shoulder onto the steel ring post. Shawn then makes good work on Jannetty's shoulder and Marty does a good job selling the injury. I also loved Heenan's commentary as he kept berating Jannetty, calling him a crybaby from wincing in pain and it actually made me want Marty to pull off the win (remember when heel commentators made you cheer for the face even more?). Marty makes an exciting comeback with Sherri slapping Shawn, showing she's on Jannetty's side and it looks like Marty could get the victory. There were several close calls and counters that this match really exciting and the crowd was very into it. As Shawn is about to punch, his elbow hits the referee. Marty grabs him and as Sherri is about to hit him with her heels, Shawn ducks and she accidentally hits Marty. Shawn hits the Sweet Chin Music and gets a pin to bring an end to this fun match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oddly, dreamer isn't the first person I think of when you say raven....even though that feud is one for the ages.


I think of his incredible feud with Sandmam. I remember when he had Sandman's son and ex wife and he was making him say all this fucked up stuff like "you know it's your daddy's fault that your parents are divorced, right?". Or when he had his son come out dressed as the sandman, so sandman thinks they have reconciled and comes out to have a reunion. Only it's just a giant ruse by raven, and he proceeds to cane the ever loving shit out of sandman in front of a stunned ecw crowd.

I also think of the great tag match he had against foley and funk. Raven was so far ahead of his time, he'd be great in any era of wrestling.


Oh, and I also remember the great feud he had with Punk in ROH. Punk cut some great promos on him, and had a just BRUTAL dog collar match with him. It was kind of shocking at the time cause that was when ROH was about pure wrestling and the "code of honor".

Great topic, raven was awesome, always loved him as a 10-11 year old watching ecw in my best friends basement.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ need to check that out ASAP, their raw 93 match may be my favorite raw match ever
--

I don't remember alot about Raven tbh, I know of his feud with Punk but that's its

:lmao I have progressively seen that "most overrated superstar by IWC" thread get worst and worst and stupider and stupider the WHOLE day, seems like a century ago I posted in it


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao I have progressively seen that "most overrated superstar by IWC" thread get worst and worst and stupider and stupider the WHOLE day, seems like a century ago I posted in it


Why can't we just enjoy wrestling without having mark wars?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Rewatched a couple of matches today.
> 
> _Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit - Royal Rumble 2001 - ★★★★★_
> 
> ...



I brought that up a week ago or so after I rewatched the Benoit vs Jericho ladder match. I completely agree, greatest ladder match in wrestling history, bar none. That spot where Benoit does a suicide dive threw the ropes and Jericho meets him with a stiff chair shot to the noggin? :mark:

Or when Jericho tries to climb the ladder and Benoit proceeds to throw some full strength punches into his kidneys and you can just HEAR how bad those must have hurt? Man nothing beats this match in my mind, one of the 10 greatest matches in WWE since 2000, easily. Maybe even all time. Can't say enough good things about it, glad there is someone who agrees with me.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

Just finished watching WrestleMania 27, after watching it again, I can't believe how well the Rhodes/Mysterio match was built up, one of the best I've seen in the PG Era. Also the Lawler/Cole build up was not a bad build either. I wouldn't rank this as the worse WrestleMania, even though it is bad, just not as bad as it gets made out to be.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao I have progressively seen that "most overrated superstar by IWC" thread get worst and worst and stupider and stupider the WHOLE day, seems like a century ago I posted in it


 LOL it almost turned into another 'debate' to do with Rock and Austin.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Downloaded SummerSlam 2011 and 2012 to get hyped up for Sunday and Extreme Rules 2012 just because 

These should be fun.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I brought that up a week ago or so after I rewatched the Benoit vs Jericho ladder match. I completely agree, greatest ladder match in wrestling history, bar none. That spot where Benoit does a suicide dive threw the ropes and Jericho meets him with a stiff chair shot to the noggin? :mark:
> 
> Or when Jericho tries to climb the ladder and Benoit proceeds to throw some full strength punches into his kidneys and you can just HEAR how bad those must have hurt? Man nothing beats this match in my mind, one of the 10 greatest matches in WWE since 2000, easily. Maybe even all time. Can't say enough good things about it, glad there is someone who agrees with me.


I think there are more who agree on that than disagree.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Raven vs Sandman feud has given me the greatest idea known to man but won't be created unless I become a wrestler and make it happen: The Crucifixion Match.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels (c) vs. Marty Jannetty for the WWF Intercontinental Championship - WWF Raw 5/17/93: *****

Again, a great match between these two. Prior to the match, Shawn Michaels goes out and says that he's the best in the World Wrestling Federation and that he'll defend his Intercontinental title anywhere, ant time, against anybody. Cue Marty Jannetty, and Shawn is caught in the corner, forced to take the match or be viewed as not a man of his word. The match starts out with Jannetty being on fire, getting the advantage from quick moves to high flying maneuvers. Shawn then gets tired of getting his ass beat and tries to leave with his title, but Mr. Perfect blocks his path and forces him to get back to the ring. Shawn gets temporary control after a Stun Gun but Marty comes back with exciting offense. The crowd was heavily into this match as every time Marty goes for the pin, Shawn kicks out and you could tell they wanted Marty to win. There were several counters and pin attempts ending with Shawn going for a quick pin using the tights, Marty kicks out and Shawn does the Sweet Chin Music to stop him on his tracks. Shawn takes his eye off the ball by looking at Mr. Perfect, talking trash but that proved to be a mistake with Perfect throwing a towel to Shawn's face and Marty applies the small package to get the victory. Exciting TV match with the crowd going nuts for Marty's win.

Side note: I've always felt bad for Marty Jannetty because nowadays if a tag team disbands, there are two columns: Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty and it seems that Jannetty is a derogatory term used for wrestlers who couldn't attain the same success as their former tag team partner. That must have suck to have that connotation attached to your name.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ that rating isnt doing that match any justice, my be my top raw match ever


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Raven vs Sandman feud has given me the greatest idea known to man but won't be created unless I become a wrestler and make it happen: The Crucifixion Match.



I saw on the ECW documentary that Kurt Angle was in attendance that night, that Tazz had brought him in and Angle was thinking of breaking in to the business with ECW. After the crucifixion, Angle was so disgusted and offended he threatened to sue Paul E. if anyone ever found out he was there.

Look, I don't consider myself a Christian tho I do believe in God, so I can't relate totally, but I just don't see how that is so offensive. There have been plenty of movies where people other than Jesus have been crucified and it didn't cause the Vatican to explode in outrage.

I think a crucifixion match involving the Undertake could have been awesome during his ministry of darkness days. He'll, he practically crucified Stephanie when he had that weird "dark wedding" that stone cold interrupted.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ^^^ that rating isnt doing that match any justice, my be my top raw match ever


Owen Hart vs Mankind in 96'
Owen Hart vs Bulldog in 97' I believe
HBK vs Cena hour draw
Maybe Foley vs Funk FCA in 97'
Maybe Punk vs Cena on Raw in January '13
HBK vs Janetty RAW 93'
Flair vs Perfect Loser leaves town Raw 93'
Eddie vs RVD Ladder Match Raw '01
Cactus Jack vs Hunter Hearst Helmsley Raw 97'
Jericho vs HHH Raw '00 in State College Pa

Those are my top 10 favorites

I was tempted to say the Benoit vs Angle steel cage match just to see ATF's eyes bug out of his head 
I do love that match though, I don't care how nonsensical it was


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I rolled my eyes and thought Kurt was being much too over-sensitive there. Means nothing to me. I'd love to see it. Some promos on it being built would be so dark, controversial, and epic. I've mapped out this a ton in my head.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am in total shock that the Paramore fan likes Raven. And is Dreamer still brutally disliked here? Never really checked out much from him anyways.

Raven's 1998 in WCW is incredible. Perfect example of a wrestler that just clicked in all aspects. Untouchable on the mic and was a walking four-star match with anyone on the roster. The Punk feud is great too. If it wasn't for that, CM Punk possibly wouldn't have made it as far as he has.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's never been a point where I didn't love Raven. :hayley1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> There's never been a point where I didn't love Raven. :hayley1


Top 10 wrestler on the mic of all time?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hmm. I'm not a big fan of "lists" but he's always been praised for his mic work. Far be it for me to disagree with anyone who puts him in the higher platform of mic workers out there.

@funnyfaces: Teddy Hart? Yeah, that spot-monkey label could fly for him I suppose. I usually just follow through in dubbing him as "crap" and move on. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ADR/Rhodes is borefest so I stopped watching


:lol why do call him the paramone fan ?

Mic workers is probaly one of the onyl list i really cannot come up with, but its Ric Flair is #1 ans its not even close, There was a thread a couple weeks ago of some professor grading mic skills on here and he gave Naitch a A++ iirc


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The last Rhodes vs Del Rio match on RAW I found to be boring too. This doesn't sound too promising. (N)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ADR/Rhodes is borefest so I stopped watching
> 
> 
> :lol why do call him the paramone fan ?
> ...


I've always loved Naitch's skills, I don't know if he's the best because its so hard to decide who is the best because its so subjective. I just say "top 10" because once you get into the 10 best it's all opinion. That said, I never understood why WWE held the opinion that Flair gave "80s rasslin' promos" and insisted on scripting everything he said. Ric flair talking about all his worldly possessions and his lifestyle rates as one of the more entertaining things in the history of wrestling. One of my favorite Flair promos ever actually occurred later in WCW, around 98-99 I believe. It was when he was feuding with Bischodd and he brought his suitcase to the ring and started dumping everything out and ranting on Bischoff, and doing his nature boy elbow drops onto the mat. I don't remember all the words said, he was stripping his clothes and jewelry off and telling biscoff to take them from him. he eventually got all the way down to his ****** toghties. but ill never forget the announcer saying "we need to go to commercial break" and flair firing back with his eyes bugging out of his head "BISCHOFF! YOU GO TO COMMERCIAL NOW AND WHEN YOU COME BACK ILL BE NAKED!" Classic, I remember almost dying laughing as a teenager.

I haven't seen the ADR vs Rhodes matches...I'm nota fan of ADR but he definitely a more than capable worker. With him and Rhodes both having extensive amateur backgrounds, I figured they would be able to have some very good matches. I just haven't gotten around to seeing them yet.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Here it is






Agreed its all subjective, I use to/still think Flair was the coolest guy and the world talking about his lavish lifestyle, and having all the woman and being the best, truly great stuff. I try to watch one of his promos everyday, it really can get you in a great mood.

his TNA promo's always made me cry "GOD GOD "


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flair on the mic = :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair is king with the promos, but Foley is god for me.

No wonder that was the best part of their feud in 2006.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Love Flair.

Flair's greatest comment from a promo for me.

"When I die it'll be here or on top of a wild woman"

:lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This is a personal favorite promo of mine and a real gem, starts around 1:50 mark


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Here it is
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh man, I hadn't seen that in a while thank you so much. I was wrong about him being in tighty whiteys, I think that was when steamboat ripped his clothes off in 1989. Anyway, that's gotta be number 1 or 2 on my favorite flair promos ever. The way he blends reality into it just makes it mean so much more because you know he pretty much feels exactly the way he says. Glad I got to see that again, it really does pump you up. The only other promos that really get me fired up like that are the Mankind-JR Interview, the cane Dewey promo, the other Anti Hardcore promo, the mankind interviews dude love and introduces cactus jack promo, Punks "pipe bomb", and maybe 1 or 2 others.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My favorite Flair promo was probably the one he had with Fritz Von Erich. Perfect contrast of styles between the old conservative man that is looking out for his son and the arrogant champion that laughs at conservation. Tough to make a top ten all-time mic workers, but Foley, Rock, Austin, Heyman, Piper, Vince, Heenan, Flair, and Punk are definitely in mine. I guess Jericho rounds up the makeshift list, but ARN ANDERSON deserves recognition as well. Good god what an underappreciated legend.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Love Flair.
> 
> Flair's greatest comment from a promo for me.
> 
> ...



Thats from the promo redskins posted, I think it actually goes like this iirc

Bischoff: "you need to settle down or you will give yourself a heart attack"
Flair: "if I have a heart attack, it'll be on top of your woman, pal"

:lmao


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Thats from the promo redskins posted, I think it actually goes like this iirc
> 
> Bischoff: "you need to settle down or you will give yourself a heart attack"
> Flair: "if I have a heart attack, it'll be on top of your woman, pal"
> ...


Yeah thats from redskins but the one I posted was actually from TNA lol.







Crowd no sold it but fuck them. Shit was hilarious.

"I'll go either way" hahaha


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair in TNA was the gift that kept on giving. Sure he may have not been in the best state of mind, but fuck it. That's kind of the best Flair we can ask for. Only guy to go to TNA and not crumble has been Foley. There I go again...

it's true though.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Top 10 mic workers? Damn that's tough.

1. Paul Heyman
2. Mick Foley
3. Steve Austin
4. Roddy Piper
5. Jake Roberts
6. Ric Flair
7. CM Punk
8. The Rock
9. Vince McMahon
10. Bobby Heenan

Mine would be something like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since we're talking promos, this one never ceases to make me laugh. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steve Austin needs some promo love. Arn Anderson is a given. Not even going to go with a more modern twist and list Eddie Kingston although everyone should know his talents. 

Lets put over Terry Funk too people. That man is gold.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Austin promos during the build up to facing Bret at SS 96 was freaking gold. Dude was carrying the first half of that feud.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Steve Austin needs some promo love. Arn Anderson is a given. Not even going to go with a more modern twist and list Eddie Kingston although everyone should know his talents.
> 
> Lets put over Terry Funk too people. That man is gold.


Oh man Terry was one of the best. His feud with Lawler back in the 80s spawned some of my favorite mic work of all time. The "god damn bastard" promo he cut on Lawler might be my favorite from him, but he also had some great ones against Flair in 89' and Foley in ECW.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Bret Hart. Although not the greatest but his heel promos in 1997 are really underrated. The promos I like were the family values promo, the weekly 'Canada is better than America' promos and who could forget that epic promo after he lost the cage match to Sid Vicious. It feels like his official heel turn started that night because he was also blaming the fans for his losses as well. The post-Mania RAW promo where he apologies to all his fans except Americans is another gem.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Austin promos during the build up to facing Bret at SS 96 was freaking gold. Dude was carrying the first half of that feud.


Without a doubt. Bret didn't get interesting in the program until he started showing heel antics and eventually went heel following WM.



cjack828 said:


> Oh man Terry was one of the best. His feud with Lawler back in the 80s spawned some of my favorite mic work of all time. The "god damn bastard" promo he cut on Lawler might be my favorite from him, but he also had some great ones against Flair in 89' and Foley in ECW.


YES.

idk if it's b/c he's not a "mainstream" WWF/WWE guy but he can't be forgotten for his work. I'm talking chills down your spine level amazing promos. It's not one most would possibly jump on, but the night at WrestleWar '89 where Funk gets in the ring and acts very passive-aggressive towards Flair before jumping him is excellent. Nothing was more shocking than that. Oooh this is jazzing me up right now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I heard Nick Bockwinkel is one of the best mic workers ever as well. Anything worth checking out from him? Heck, any good matches of his that I can find on Youtube? I couldn't find the Hennig classic.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Without a doubt. Bret didn't get interesting in the program until he started showing heel antics and eventually went heel following WM.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


"HE SAID I WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH! THAT BANANA NOSED JERK SAID I WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH"
:lmao

Classic terry funk. He was everything a heel should be in his feud with Lawler back in the 80s. My friends dad showed me a tape a few years ago of a bloody brawl between the two in front of one of the hottest crowds I've ever seen in Memphis in I believe 1980-1981. Anyway, i remember thinking after I saw it that it was one of if not the greatest brawls I'd ever seen, and one of the best matches period. I really wish I knew exactly when it took place so I could find it and download it and see if it is as amazing as I remember it being. Their empty arena match was pretty good too but it couldn't hold a candle to the bout I saw.


----------



## redban (Feb 16, 2007)

*Triple H vs Brock Lesnar, Wrestlemania 29
*
First 15 minutes was standard. I don't have anything to say.

Shawn Michaels gets an F5, and I feel apathetic. Why is Shawn Michaels here anyways? I respect Michaels and consider him one of the best, but he was unneeded in this match.

The finisher exchange was -- ugh. Triple H hit the Pedigree, and Brock kicks out. Brock immediately follows with the F5, and Triple H kicks out.

Why do this? It was obvious that Brock's F5 wasn't going to end the match because of the sequence.There's no suspense. You're just doing finisher moves for the sake of it.

Audible crowd support for Brock. During the brawl outside, fans shouted, "End his career Brock!" When he attempted the Kimura the first time, the crowd chanted, "Break his Arm!"

Triple H using the Kimura (???). 

Brock counters by a slam into the steel steps; yet Triple H immediately locks it back in? Where is the selling? He just got slammed onto pure steel. 

The DDT-counter on the steps wasn't effective. The crowd had no idea. Even the viewer at home wouldn't have realized it if not for JBL, Cole, and King.

The sledgehammer was there in the corner, visible, all match. Why didn't Brock try to pick it up even once and use it?

Overall, an uneventful match. Nothing memorable. I wouldn't watch again.

Grade = C-


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I see we're discussing great mic workers. Terry Funk always says that Boris Malenko was the best talker there ever was. I've only seen one promo of his though. Hard to believe that one of the best talkers in the business is the father of Dean Malenko. Don't get me wrong, in the ring Dean's very sharp and crisp, fans who care that sort of think may rank him highly. But quite frankly, I could give two shits about crisp execution.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I heard Nick Bockwinkel is one of the best mic workers ever as well. Anything worth checking out from him? Heck, any good matches of his that I can find on Youtube? I couldn't find the Hennig classic.


Anything from Bockwinkle while he was being managed by Heenan was pure gold, and I'm serious. He was great on his own anyway but Heenan just took them to a higher level. I've seen probably 5-10 interview promos from that time period in AWA and Heenan and Bockwinkle just played off each other beautifully. I so wish Heenan could have managed Bockwinkle and brought him to the WWF to continue the Hogan feud. They were really on to something good before Hogan split for the WWF. With the WWF's grander stage and glitz and higher production values, Bockwinkle really could have gone to the next level. Ideally, he could have been the one to take the belt off Backlund and Hogan could have chased Bockwinkle with Heenan for a year building Hulkamania to unimaginable heights. Oh well, I suppose Hulkamania didn't need a boost it was already as big as anything in wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I see we're discussing great mic workers. Terry Funk always says that Boris Malenko was the best talker there ever was. I've only seen one promo of his though. Hard to believe that one of the best talkers in the business is the father of Dean Malenko. Don't get me wrong, in the ring Dean's very sharp and crisp, fans who care that sort of think may rank him highly. But quite frankly, I could give two shits about crisp execution.


Malenko is awesome. The Iceman gets a pass from me despite not showing much charisma in the ring. It's weird because Bob Holly says that he's a funny guy backstage and has a lot of personality, but yet I don't think I've seen footage of him with any facial expression whatsoever. Except that pic where he looks like he's eating a dog.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Flair in TNA was the gift that kept on giving. Sure he may have not been in the best state of mind, but fuck it. That's kind of the best Flair we can ask for. Only guy to go to TNA and not crumble has been Foley. There I go again...
> 
> it's true though.






this may be the greatest thing ever


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

CLASS


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Since we're talking promos, this one never ceases to make me laugh. :lmao


Heel HBK might seriously be my favorite character ever. :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> CLASS


Are you me ? 

-reviewing and liking dolph matches,
- hbk sig, and avatar
- posts one of my favorite naitch promos
- guessing is a Punk fan by the username

You could pass as my second account :lmao



The Lady Killer said:


> Heel HBK might seriously be my favorite character ever. :lmao


Same, although I like dancing babyface more than most


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Are you me ?
> 
> -reviewing and liking dolph matches,
> - hbk sig, and avatar
> ...


Guess we like the same things lol

Speaking of Heel HBK...






WHAT A TROLL :hbk


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Some of the shit he did in 95-98 was just priceless.

~Tantrum against Vader
~Tantrum against ladder
~Chewing gum after getting knocked out cold by Tyson @ Mania 14
~Sucking on a lollipop while overselling Shamrock's ankle lock
~Tantrum when pyro doesn't go off on time @ Ground Zero
~Various blowjob gestures to disgruntled fans
~Walking out during a promo because someone from the audience hit him in the head with a battery.

etc, etc


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Heel HBK might seriously be my favorite character ever. :lmao


The funny thing about that video is the best part of it is not even his constant abuse of "brother".

"CAUSE YOU KNOW MEAN GENE BROTHER!"
"It's Larry King"
"Larry... whatever, I'M SELLING TICKETS HERE BROTHER!"
:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Since we're talking promos, this one never ceases to make me laugh. :lmao


This is like my favorite HBK promo ever.

That face right after they come back from the video package HBK has always gets me rolling (right at 5:07). :lmao Why isn't that a smiley!?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My favorite part is when he stands up to do all the trademark Hogan poses and his back goes out. :lmao :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

"AAAAAAHH! CRAMP! CRAMP! CRAMP! BROTHER! BROTHER OOOHHHHHH BROOOOOTHERRRRRR!" *hits superkick* :lmao

Also have to point out the beginning when he says "Everyday the Hulkster wakes up and he's not dead, brother. He's living up on his time, brother!". Can't forget "That would imply I'd ever go to Battle Creek. The Hulkster only makes it to the big towns, brother!"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, the Battle Creek line is great. That promo, coupled with his blatant overselling during the match, is just pure gold.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's ridiculous that there are people saying HBK is not good on the mic. The Hogan promos are some of the best I've ever seen and I can't think of many that make me laugh like that one does.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't get the hate for HBK on the mic, either. His work against Jericho in 2008 was great, too.

Just watched some clips from the SummerSlam 05 match. When he takes the big boot and flops around, only to jump right back up and run all over the place and fall over again I lose it. :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yes, we're talking about heel HBK. His 2005 Hogan stuff is among the GOAT heel work, imo. 

Brother brother brother brother brother BROTHER :hbk2

Also, Shawn deserved a win during that feud. He carried that program, while Hogan showed up like twice.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There's a Hogan shoot where he states they were supposed to have 3 matches but he called it off after HBK buried him in that Montreal promo the night after Summerslam :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just heard that interview the other day. There's also a story that Hogan backed out of the rematches saying his knees went bad.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

OMFG we're talking about HBK mic work. (Y)

Despite his heel stuff being my favorite, the LOST MY SMILE promo had that place flooded with female tears. Also, the tantrum with the ladder is one of my favorite things ever.

Watched Unforgiven '08 with a friend tonight. Actually really enjoyed the show overall. The matches weren't amazing but the way the whole show was set up and flowed really worked. Some real good backstage segments too. The endings of the WHC/WWE scramble matches were a tad questionable but I actually really enjoyed the WWE/ECW scramble matches. WHC was a little slow until Rey came along, then it picked up. Not the best of the series, but I actually really liked HBK/Jericho. Showed lots of emotion. The Big Show/Taker brawl is actually pretty sick too.

Jericho's mannerisms when he's coming out as the fifth entrant in the WHC scramble. :lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched Summerslam 2010:

Kofi/Dolph- **
Show/S.E.S- DUD
Sheamus/Orton- ***1/2
Kane/Rey- **1/2
Nexus/WWE- ***

Overall, a pretty bad show.

Also seen, ADR?Rhodes from last night, **3/4, could have been better with 2 more minutes. Cody's moonsault was great


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Some of the shit he did in 95-98 was just priceless.
> 
> ~Tantrum against Vader
> ~Tantrum against ladder
> ...


:lmao

All of it though, golden. COKE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was that the Raw match with Shamrock? Can't say I remember that lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I take it @ 4:42 , HBK yelling "clothesline" at Shamrock was an attempt to belittle him, no?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

On a new topic, Smackdown only PPV's. Can I say that No Mercy 04, 05 and 06 is some of the most underrated stuff ever?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Guess we like the same things lol
> 
> Speaking of Heel HBK...
> 
> ...


Probably my most favorite HBK promo. (Y)

He worked the crowd to perfection.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Probably my most favorite HBK promo. (Y)
> 
> He worked the crowd to perfection.


Also, the Raw after Summerslam 






And Hogan's thought's on the feud ending:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

figured I'd post the aforementioned Funk moment I lovelovelove.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

WWE WrestleMania 28, I have this PPV on Blu Ray, because I collect all the WrestleMania's. Apart from the Triple H vs. The Undertaker Hell in the Cell Match, probably in my top 5 worse WrestleMania's. It had a great Match Card, some of the Matches had great build ups, but for me it was the Match quality that let it down. Out of 5 stars, I would rate it a 1.5/2


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

It was better than 27 & 29


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't feel like getting roped into yet ANOTHER WM discussion but 29 > 28 > 27 for me. Although Punk vs Jericho was my favorite match WWE championship match from the event. So that holds a high bit of merit.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

For me it's, 29 > 27 > 28


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just watched the January 4, 1999 episode of Raw. The first half of the show was pretty dull and actually borderline bad. Things picked up a lot in the second half though with some good segments and a pretty entertaining hardcore brawl between Al Snow and Road Dogg.

The main event though was of course Mankind vs. The Rock in a No Disqualification match for the WWF title. The night Foley finally got his hands on that belt (he almost got it at Rock Bottom a few weeks earlier but it was torn away from him due to a technicality). It really was a great moment and a pretty good match as well.

I wasn't watching wrestling at the time and really only started watching about 6 years ago. I've become a pretty big Foley mark though. He is one of my favourites of all time and I had seen this match before and seen the moment a couple of times on current Raw (around Raw 1000 and when he got inducted in the HOF), but I could never fully appreciate the moment and how big this was for him. But now that I've watched all of Raw from mid-1996, I think I can now. Maybe not to the fullest because I wasn't watching at the time, but I think I can appreciate it enough. 

Watching him through his different, wacky escapades through 96 and 97. Watching his slow rise to the upper-mid-card and hovering around the main event. Watching that incredible match at KOTR in context and his growth in popularity since then to finally get to the top. The man who was in many people's eyes, never meant to be there. It made me truly realise what a great moment this was.

Where I'm also going with this is that I've never been able to see much of this, as I only really started watching Raw properly in early 2011. So watching the rise of Stone Cold and The Rock has been fun. Particularly Foley though as he was a guy who was never seen as good enough for the title, and that totally reminds me of what we're witnessing with Daniel Bryan right now. I've seen most of his rise through the ranks of WWE and now maybe he will finally reach the very top in just a few days time. If not at Summerslam, then eventually it has to happen. It's just fascinating stuff to watch.

/rambling


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hogan-HBK was a fucking awesome and entertaining feud if I do say so myself. The match is ridiculous and that's why I fucking adore it, favorite michaels performance of the 2000s perhaps?

The problem with HBK2000 is that I just couldn't get into his face character at times, and he started to develop a tendency where he would overact and get all hammy and shit in his matches. The worst case of this would probably be during his referee performance at Wrestlemania XXVIII where his over the top nonsense nearly ruined what I thought was a great match. There's a point in the match where he crawls over in the corner and hyperventilates while the match is going on, like what the actual fuck? I mean, that was okay in situations where he was trying to be funny, but this was supposed to be "epic" ...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

27 is an even worse version WM 21. 

ok, I'm done with the topic after that amazing realization. 8 matches and 5 are fucking DUDs. Including the two biggest matches on the show. Ugh.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

Talking about Monday Night RAW, I've always been a fan of that DX vs The Nation Hardcore Match from Summer of 1998. Another match from RAW, I liked was the Corporate Royal Rumble from January 1999, and I don't know why I like them so much.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have never seen the shamrock/lollipop thing ever :lmao can only imagine

One of my favorite heel hbk promos is a raw before bb97 and the crowd is screaming Shawn's a ******/gay and he calls a girl over and says "honey lets show them how gay I really am" iirc gotta love him. I think he said in the bret/ hbk DVD that shit really bothered him
--
I love hbk in wm 28, yes he was a tad overdramatic but did u expect a Oscar performance ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You know what we should talk about? The only match in history where you don't give a fuck about the dead crowd:






:mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I didn't expect an Oscar, but I certainly expected more than that fucking atrocious performance. Taker locks in hell's gate at one point and HBK busts out some of the worst selling ever for it. You wanna know how to use Shawn michaels in a non wrasslin' capacity? 

Wrestlemania XXIX.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> You know what we should talk about? The only match in history where you don't give a fuck about the dead crowd:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can add this too IMO:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've liked a good number of matches that crowds have crapped on. Nothing will stop me from loving El Generico vs Sami Callihan 2/3 Falls. Not even 30 people being lifeless for the greatness that was put in front of them. Bunch of plonkers.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

So do the crowd's affect the quality of a match? Add in a good, loud crowd in matches like Lesnar/HHH or HHH/Orton, would people's opinions change on these matches _slightly_. Or a better question, if you take away the crowd from the Rock/Hogan match, would it still be a memorable match between two legends?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This is probably, definetly an unpopular opinion, but aside from the crowd, I thought Rock/Hogan was pretty shit IMO.

*runs away*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Hayley, the scary thing is that they can do Zayn/Callihan again at NXT. :mark:



> So do the crowd's affect the quality of a match? Add in a good, loud crowd in matches like Lesnar/HHH or HHH/Orton, would people's opinions change on these matches slightly. Or a better question, if you take away the crowd from the Rock/Hogan match, would it still be a memorable match between two legends?


Imo they do. If Rock/Hogan had no crowd for example, it would be remembered as an utter DUD. I'd need to have two world class workers to forget a dead crowd.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

zep81 said:


> This is probably, definetly an unpopular opinion, but aside from the crowd, I thought Rock/Hogan was pretty shit IMO.
> 
> *runs away*


Not unpopular at all I'm pretty sure..


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

A DUD? That's harsh lol. lowest rating I have seen of the match is a ***.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chris Jericho vs Eddie guerrero at Super Brawl 1997 is one of the best cases of a crowd crapping on a technical masterpiece. Those guys put on a freaking clinic and no one cared because they were just two lifeless baby faces at the time. Oh well, I still enjoy it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> I've liked a good number of matches that crowds have crapped on. Nothing will stop me from loving El Generico vs Sami Callihan 2/3 Falls. Not even 30 people being lifeless for the greatness that was put in front of them. Bunch of plonkers.


I'm all for loud crowds making a match even more special, but there really times when the match is great and the crowd shits on it. That;s a good example with Generico/Callihan. Then again, imo, the Skate Zone has to be the worst place for any wrestling event. Don't know why CZW has basically made it their home for so damn long. Every time DGUSA or Evolve go there, the crowd is also shitty. It's a shitty place on the whole. 

I can't believe in that Finlay/Regal match the crowd were chanting "Boring" as well. Fucking no good pieces of shit :cussin:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

A crowd doesn't really affect a match quality imo. No doubt an energetic and frenetic crowd can create some spine-tingling moments, but in the overall context of a match it won't hide glaring weaknesses. The crowd played a huge part in Rock/Hogan in magnifying the atmosphere and producing something that felt truly special, however Rock/Hogan works because they worked the perfect style to play up to the crowd (dual sequences of one upsmanship to tease the crowd into siding with Hogan, Rock playing up to the jeers he was getting) whilst pacing everything superbly. It wasn't a stellar match in terms of actual ringwork but they produced as good a spectacle as they could: compare Rock/Hogan to Rock/Cena in terms of match layout and the difference in quality is staggering. It wasn't an exhibition but it wasn't expected to be. It was two ridiculously charismatic and iconic figures locking up in a WWE Main Event Style match.

As for dead crowds affecting the overall quality of a match, again I can't really agree at least based on my preferences. A good/great match is judged on the respective performances and story/theme communicated through the wrestling and sequences. A rabid crowd will always be welcomed in terms of being receptive to the great work being demonstrated in the ring, but if two great mat workers have a 20 minute match paying homage to the european style and consisting of great matwork and organic counters I'd probably love it regardless of how well received it is by the crowd.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Good points raised, WOOLCOCK. I think an energetic crowd can certainly have a positive affect on matches or shows for that matter. Take the RAW show after Mania this year as an example. Without the crowd, it would have been an average RAW episode. There was the Brodus Clay/Tensai squash match, Big E squash match against Daniel Bryan and it was also the start of the Ryback/Cena feud. The Orton and Sheamus match was certainly helped by the crowd as well. I doubt Cena would have said "how about a little heel turn" if it was a silent crowd. So I agree with you that loud crowds are always welcomed in matches. 

Usually when reading PPV and match reviews, people always mention that matches should be placed correctly on the card so that the crowd can find it's voice again for the big matches. I know that Taker/HBK I, Taker/Punk or Taker/HHH III sure did silence the crowds for the matches afterwards. That's why I was wondering if bad crowds may be the reason for underwhelming matches because a lot of reviewers mention the crowds as a factor.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Was that the Raw match with Shamrock? Can't say I remember that lol.


Nah, it was some promo on Raw. I think HBK was wearing his standard super short polo shorts, which made it even better. Just a total douche. Shamrock comes out and locks him in the ankle lock while Shawn still has the lollipop in his mouth and is just flopping around like a fish out of water. It's hilarious. Shawn basically has a huge smile on his face the entire time he's "selling" the ankle lock. :lmao



redskins25 said:


> I have never seen the shamrock/lollipop thing ever :lmao can only imagine
> 
> One of my favorite heel hbk promos is a raw before bb97 and the crowd is screaming Shawn's a ******/gay and he calls a girl over and says "honey lets show them how gay I really am" iirc gotta love him. I think he said in the bret/ hbk DVD that shit really bothered him
> --
> I love hbk in wm 28, yes he was a tad overdramatic but did u expect a Oscar performance ?


Yeah, I think I posted that promo you're referring to a little while ago. It's hilarious. He just finds some hot chick in the crowd, pulls her over the barricade and makes out with her. :lmao

edit WTF is up with our rep bars?!?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Usually when reading PPV and match reviews, people always mention that matches should be placed correctly on the card so that the crowd can find it's voice again for the big matches. I know that Taker/HBK I, Taker/Punk or Taker/HHH III sure did silence the crowds for the matches afterwards. That's why I was wondering if bad crowds may be the reason for underwhelming matches because a lot of reviewers mention the crowds as a factor.


Dead crowds can irk many, especially if its a PPV main event or Wrestlemania where people almost demand the electrifying atmosphere that underpins the image and representation of Wrestlemania as the pinnacle of the business.

Personally if I find the work in the match poor then I won't be positively receptive towards the match regardless of how alive the crowd are. I'm not one to ever turn away a receptive crowd, but it'll never really be a major hinderance to match quality imo if the actual work itself is of a sufficiently high standard. Ziggler/Del Rio for example didn't need the crowd rallying behind Ziggler to the thunderous degrees they did for me to love the match: it certainly was welcomed in capturing that raw moment, but it wasn't a requisite for me to call it the PPV MOTY.



The Lady Killer said:


> WTF is up with our rep bars?!?


VS error apparently. Shep said in the chatbox it wasn't the mods' doing and Seabs replied in a thread in Suggestions saying it might have come about when VS mended a youtube icon in the quick reply box. He's gotten word to them of the issue so hopefully it can be resolved soon.


----------



## Bob Van Dam (Aug 11, 2013)

Just been watching a old Monday Night RAW from 1997, I can't believe how bad Bret Hart was on the Mic. One of the worst things he ever said to someone, was what he said to Steve Austin."The reason your called Stone Cold, is because your stones are so cold...And you wont even come out here."


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, when Bret tried to be a tough guy it got pretty ugly.

edit :woolcock


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, when Bret tried to be a tough guy it got pretty ugly.
> 
> edit :woolcock



In defense of Bret, the promo he cut after Mania 13 was not bad at all, the one where he officially turned heel in the US. However, for the most part, he was pretty corny whenever he tried to sound tough or like a bad ass. I remember when he had that build with Shawn, one line he uttered "I'm gonna kick you're scrawny little ass" came off as so unbelievably corny that I remember being legitimately embarrassed for him when I was watching Raw. Like I couldn't even look at the TV it was so bad.

I just watched the promo from Savage for the build to WM5 with Hogan, when he talks about Hogans lying eyes and how he hates his guts. Randy was the MAN, I'm so proud I grew up loathing the hulkster and worshipping savage as a kid. Hogan always seems so lame now watching the stuff he did in the late 80s to early 90s. During that whole feud i have no idea how Hogan came off as the babyface and Savage was the heel. hogan was as despicable as it gets, trying to steal Elizabeth from Randy. Savage on the other hand was the epitome of a cool badass.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Nah, it was some promo on Raw. I think HBK was wearing his standard super short polo shorts, which made it even better. Just a total douche. Shamrock comes out and locks him in the ankle lock while Shawn still has the lollipop in his mouth and is just flopping around like a fish out of water. It's hilarious. Shawn basically has a huge smile on his face the entire time he's "selling" the ankle lock. :lmao


Thanks mate, anyone know the date?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Thanks mate, anyone know the date?


Found it. Start @ 6:45 :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Your a legend, cheers


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Good God.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:mark: "Your going down in your home town" fucking love that promo, Shawn's the fucking man


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I just watched that the other day :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I forgot about that promo from the One Night Only PPV :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Going through my notepad of *ratings and just laughing at some


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll watch the HBK/Austin WM14 match in abit, after the recent talk, havnt seen it in a long while now tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HBK's entrance is the best part.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^^

Their KOTR bout is a better watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just in the mood now for some HBK post '96 matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> HBK's entrance is the best part.


x1000000 "I'm the fucking man" most badass entrance and best wm live performance EVER, Punk's this year is 2nd





iwatchwrestling said:


> ^^^
> 
> Their KOTR bout is a better watch.


You know, I thin kthat match is ok, but I jsut cant great through it. Its good jsut a tad dull and it seems to drag


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Just in the mood now for some HBK post '96 matches.


Post 96? Badd Blood 97 and RR 98 with Taker. 

That's actually a good topic. Shawn's post 96-98?



> x1000000 "I'm the fucking man" most badass entrance and best wm live performance EVER, Punk's this year is 2nd


I mark for Motorhead at WM 21. Living Color this year was fucking sweet. Another cool live performance was DX band at Summerslam 98 for Trips/Rock.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bruno lemat said:


> Austin vs shawn michaels is the 5 star match*.It's the only great shawn michaels match and the best by far.*


 My heart just stopped


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Austin/HBK is only a ****1/4 for me


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The Other day, I watched Randy Orton vs. Undertaker Summerslam 05

Really good match. Liked the work by Randy here alot. Before he got really set into his moveset and working over Taker's leg was very effective. Enjoyed the finish too.

****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> You know, I thin kthat match is ok, but I jsut cant great through it. Its good jsut a tad dull and it seems to drag


The ending sequence of that KOTR match is fucking hilarious, with HBK/Austin's antics, and the replacment ref who nearly decapitates himself off the bottom rope. :lol

Post '96 includes '96 for this exercise guys


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

You're drunk


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> The ending sequence of that KOTR match is fucking hilarious, with HBK/Austin's antics, and the replacment ref who nearly decapitates himself off the bottom rope. :lol
> 
> Post '96 includes '96 for this exercise guys


yea it was, you see in the beginning when the kid tries to fight stone cold. I know he had down s. but was that scripted or real ?

Not even gonna comment on the blasphemy that was just posted


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ok, I have seen many Austin marks, but you're weird or stupid


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bruno lemat said:


> If shawn michaels doesn't make this match is career will be nothing.Shawn michaels should be thanks stone cold who saves his horrible career.


Please don't pollute this thread like you do most others, you obviously don't belong here.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

If Stone Cold is the 'speedest' wrestler in the world, I want to know what guys like Rey Mysterio are in your mind...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> yea it was, you see in the beginning when the kid tries to fight stone cold. I know he had down s. but was that scripted or real ?
> 
> Not even gonna comment on the blasphemy that was just posted


I've wondered this myself, it did look real to me tbh.

EDIT: Don't feed the troll.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Not worked, but they always keep the camera away from people who jump the rail, so I can see where people would think it was a work. I think Shawn was just being a good guy, and Jim Ross was playing that up.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Austin/HBK at KOTR is a **** match IMO. Loved the pinning reversals during the match and I can understand the ending considering they were both dysfunctional tag team champions who just attacked the referees near the end. It's weird how the match was briefly stopped due to a young fan hugging HBK at the beginning :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

bruno lemat said:


> Austin vs shawn michaels *is the 5 star match.It's the only great shawn michaels match and the best by far.*


I love that match more than anyone...

But, BUT...

fpalm


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forget what I said, dint realise Earl was in hospital at the time.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Just got done re-watching Mankind vs HBK at IYH: Mind-Games. Just an all out brawl this was and an awesome one at that. Loved HBK acting tweenerish by shoving the ref out of the way along with his mannerisms during the match. I'm still not high on the finish ending in a DQ but it's still a classic. ★★★★★ for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Put on Brock's DVD for a bit and decided to check out a couple of matches in the big screen.

Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Ironman Match) - Smackdown 18/9/2003 - ★★★★
- So much better to watch it with all the commercial break stuff included because it never disrupts the flow. Great match but I can now say for sure that SummerSlam is comfortably their best match together.

Brock Lesnar vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 11/12/2003 - ★★★★
- Excellent match here. Lesnar sells Mysterio's offense perfectly and plays the big man heel role well too. Rey is on fire with his quick offense and the crowd pops huge for everything he does. Also established the BROCK LOCK as a finisher a week after it was used on Benoit. GREAT, great match! Rey has had so many quality matches with such a big variety of opponents, I didn't really think about it much until now.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just watched Taker/Punk from Mania again. I give it **** but no higher. A few small issues keep it from going higher but it's still a very good match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No Way Out 2000:

Angle/Jericho- ****1/4
Dudley Boys/NAO- *3/4
Henry/Viscera- DUD
Hardyz/Edge&Christian- ***3/4
Kane/X-Pac- ***
TooCool&Rikishi/Radicalz- ***1/4
Rock/Show- ***1/4
Foley/HHH- ****3/4

Overall: Damn, didn't watch this PPV in years, but it still remains one of my fav. PPVs. The Foley/HHH match is a forgoten classic, the opener is awesome and Rock&Show put on a decent match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> Just watched Taker/Punk from Mania again. I give it **** but no higher. A few small issues keep it from going higher but it's still a very good match.


Yeah, tbh Punk/Taker didn't hold up as well on the second viewing. Still an awesome match, though, but not on par with the matches Taker had with Edge/Batista/HHH/HBK in the years prior. Close to the Edge and Batista matches, though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just finished watching the 07/21/97 episode of RAW. So far the best RAW that I have watched in 1997. It was the start of HBK's heel antics, a very good main event match (capture the flag) and Bret Hart and Vince McMahon's fight looked real. As expected, things are getting better.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Put on Brock's DVD for a bit and decided to check out a couple of matches in the big screen.
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Ironman Match) - Smackdown 18/9/2003 - ★★★★
> - So much better to watch it with all the commercial break stuff included because it never disrupts the flow. Great match but I can now say for sure that SummerSlam is comfortably their best match together.
> ...


Just bought the BORK DVD, now you got me more pumped for it!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

LOVE HHH V Foley at NWO 2000. I might be the only person I know who likes it better than their Rumble 2000 match and that one is damn good too. Both are def in the 4 1/2 star area for me. Kinda wish Foley won the one at RR since it was at MSG but with the McMahon/Helmsley story line it makes sense that didn't happen. 

A lot of people dislike the Angle/Brock Iron Man match...I think it's awesome.....all 3 of their matches together were great

Tough question for everyone.....

Give me your top 10 all time in the following categories....

Psychology
Storytelling
Selling
In Ring Working


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Put on Brock's DVD for a bit and decided to check out a couple of matches in the big screen.
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle (Ironman Match) - Smackdown 18/9/2003 - ★★★★
> - So much better to watch it with all the commercial break stuff included because it never disrupts the flow. Great match but I can now say for sure that SummerSlam is comfortably their best match together.
> ...



I just reviewed the Mysterio match the other day, I really really liked it too. The opening sequence with Brock doing the "you're just a little guy!" Shtick was great. I loved Rey running around the ring trying to tire Brock out, and man that Brock lock in the ends looks like its killing Mysterio. I gave it ****1/4 for being about a 12 minute match its as good as it gets really, aside from Angle vs Mysterio at SS02.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> LOVE HHH V Foley at NWO 2000. I might be the only person I know who likes it better than their Rumble 2000 match and that one is damn good too. Both are def in the 4 1/2 star area for me. Kinda wish Foley won the one at RR since it was at MSG but with the McMahon/Helmsley story line it makes sense that didn't happen.
> 
> A lot of people dislike the Angle/Brock Iron Man match...I think it's awesome.....all 3 of their matches together were great
> 
> ...


Psychology:
Foley
Terry Funk
Undertaker
Eddie
Lawler

Story Telling:
Bret Hart
Undertaker
Rey
Eddie
HBK

Selling
HBK x10000
Triple H (when he's not being an egomaniac. Likee in his matches against Taker and Foley his selling is perfect)
Bret Hart
Flair
Rey

In ring work:
Chris Benoit
Eddie Guerrero
Dynamite Kid
Kurt Angle
Curt Hennig

In ring work for big men (300+ pounds):
Undertaker
Brock Lesnar
Bam Bam Bigelow
Mark Henry
Vader

In ring work for Brawlers:
Foley x10000 (the GOAT brawler)
Steve Austin
Terry Funk
Bruiser Brody
Raven

Obviously these aren't indisputable facts, just opinions. Also I stuck to guys that wrestled in the WWE since this is a WWE thread.


----------



## Das Wunderberlyn (Jan 18, 2011)

Chris Benoit vs Brock Lesnar - SD 12/03 - ****

These guys had mad chemistry, better than Angle/Lesnar.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

bruno lemat said:


> I don't thinks so,brock lesnar vs kurt angle was a great match especially at wrestlemania 19 but benoit/lesnar chemistry was also good.
> Best benoit and angle chemistry his with stone cold like all superstar who has a match againts stone cold.


You really need to get together with a Rock mark. :


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> You really need to get together with a Rock mark. :


And get out of this thread, ugh

Cal needs to :ban this dumbass, he's just trolling


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Lesnar smokes all matches either guy had with Angle. 'Smokes' is putting it too lightly as well.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Benoit/Lesnar smokes all matches either guy had with Angle. 'Smokes' is putting it too lightly as well.




Angle/Taker NWO 06 = Angles Best wwe match


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MEH.

Brock/Benoit > Brock/Angle SS > Brock/Angle Ironman 

Brock/Benoit would be Brock's third best behind the OBVIOUS Extreme Rules 2012 pick at number one and the cell match with Taker at number two.

On a random note, picking random DVDs out of my collection and watching one match off them each before moving on to the next one. The first DVD I came across was DECEMBER TO DISMEMBER, and I decided to watch the Big Show-Lashley special feature. Tis not bad so far.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You actually bought December to Dismember?!? :bosh


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Angle/Taker NWO 06 = Angles Best wwe match


I didn't mention Taker in my post so IDK if you're disagreeing with me in some way, but Angle/Taker really is great. I prefer the SD 2003 match and Angle's best match with Austin, but it's up there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It was in a Wal Mart bargain bin for 3 dollars alongside NYR 2007, RR 2007, Unforgiven 2006 & Trish Stratus 2 Pack, No Mercy 2006, & YEAH.

DEALS. I pretty much have 90 percent of all of the DVDs you can get for less than 10 dollars in the entire fucking world, but missed 4-5 DVDs so far this year due to shitty match listings that I'll probably pick up when they're cheaper.. Hoping to pick up WAR GAMES this weekend though.

And December To Dismember > Royal Rumble 2013

Show-Lashley was good, Lashley played his part coming up from the bottom while Show clearly called this match on offense for a big majority. Kind of liked Lashley, only when he was going up against a big monster with the skill of a Big Show or a Mark Henry though (they have an excellent match in early 2007 or 2006, I always forget that's fucking really good). Yeah, if you're a Big Show mark you should go out of your way to watch this as it's essentially a poor man's Show-Cena from 2/27/2009.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Angle/Taker NWO 06 = Angles Best wwe match


I don't know, I think his match with Austin at Summerslam 2001 was his best match despite the shitty finish. Angle's babyface performance in that match was amazing. When Angle isn't spamming his finishers and actually follows a specific formula to a match, he can be really fucking good.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I didn't mention Taker in my post so IDK if you're disagreeing with me in some way, but Angle/Taker really is great. I prefer the SD 2003 match and Angle's best match with Austin, but it's up there.




Oh I thought you were just implying that Brock was angles best match.... It's too bad angle/taker didn't happen more times than it did.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle/Taker happened enough times so we never have to wish for more. 2003, 2006 2x and I've heard Survivor Series was good too.

BROCK/Angle SummerSlam = BROCK/Benoit > BROCK/Angle Ironman


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Angle/Lesnar WM was a borefest compared to they're Iron man and Summerslam match. Wasn't impressed in that match for a WM main event.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Angle/Lesnar WM was amazing considering Angle was wrestling with a broken neck.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alim said:


> Angle/Lesnar WM was amazing considering Angle was wrestling with a broken neck.


True. But as far as match quality goes, Angle vs Brock at Summerslam 03' blows the Wrestlemania bout out of the water. And their Ironman match was excellent, the only one out of the 3 I've seen (hbk vs hart and trips vs rock being the others) that I really really liked.

That said, I think Angle vs Stone Cold at SS01 might be even better than Angle vs Brock, ill need to rewatch both but I remember being blown away by the angle stone cold match, it had great pacing and Angles BABYFACE performance was tits.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Alim said:


> Angle/Lesnar WM was amazing considering Angle was wrestling with a broken neck.


Broken freakin' neck! :angle


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> True. But as far as match quality goes, Angle vs Brock at Summerslam 03' blows the Wrestlemania bout out of the water. And their Ironman match was excellent, *the only one out of the 3 I've seen (hbk vs hart and trips vs rock being the others) that I really really liked*.


Rock/Trips is pretty good, I think. Better than HBK/Bret for me. I can't remember if I saw Angle/Lesnar Iron Man. Summerslam is miles better than WM.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Iron man matches are the worst, I have trouble sitting through 20 mins matches already. 

IDK what this convo is about but I just watched benoit/brock again and I have it above the brock/angle series and angle/taker nwo, dont know about scsa/angle ss 01 but its close


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I really need to watch Lesnar/Angle SS. I've only heard good things about that match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

As far as Ironman matches go, I might watch the other four just to make an official list out of it. Right now it's:



Spoiler: ranking with PIX



*5.*









*4.*









*3.*









*2.*









*1.*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Benoit/Trips was ruined by the Eugene involvement, like their Vengeance encounter. Both matches could have been **** or higher if not for Eugene.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alim said:


> I really need to watch Lesnar/Angle SS. I've only heard good things about that match.


Oh you most certainly do. I bought that "25 Greatest Rivalries" set WWE just put our, and that match is on the 3rd disc. So awesome. I won't spoil it for you by talking about the finish, but for 20+ minutes that match is almost wrestling perfection. It gets ****1/2 from me. Brock in 03 was just inhuman, and when Angle has a good opponent to help him construct the match in a way that makes sense, he's phenomenal as everyone already knows.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Benoit/Trips was ruined by the Eugene involvement, like their Vengeance encounter. Both matches could have been **** or higher if not for Eugene.


His involvement sucked but it doesn't bother me much, specially since the matches had been going for quite a while before he came out. It mostly ruined the ironman match, though. That one just made no sense because he hits HHH with a chair and Benoit pins him successfully about two minutes after that chair shot. How can he possibly sell it for _that_ long?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Thought I was the only one who had trouble sitting through 20 minute matches lol. No usually I just have to be in a mood to watch wrestling. If I just put on a match while my mind is not into it, I can't watch it. I get bored and I form false impressions. I can' tell you how many matches that I've labelled as "bad" only to later go call it "great" all because I watched it the first time completely out of it. 

As far as iron matches go, I don't know. I remember trying to watch Lesnar/Angle and hating. Why? Actually, no, not because I wasn't in the mood. It's actually because Angle worked me lol. He did it so good. This was some years ago. I was 15 at the time. Back then, I was OBSESSED with technical wrestling cause, well, I had now join the forum. Anyway, Angle only relying on DQs at the start pissed me off. Damn, Angle was such a dick of a heel. Anyway, now that I'm just a tad bit smarter I think I'll give it a watch some day. 

Oh and not a WWE match but Callihan/Cole was a damn good entertaining 60 minutes. The first 40 minutes or so flies.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^lol at "2/4." Couldn't just even do that the way everyone else does, eh?

And lol at C2D putting him on ignore. He's a successful troll, that one.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

:lmao at 2/4

The guy may be a troll but he is right on one thing. vs Foley is Orton's best match. Arguably, I said arguably, Foley's best in the 'E' or career as well. Arguably. Just felt like I needed to mention that a third time.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Orton/Benoit is missing, and how do you go from ****1/2 to ***1/2 in a top matches list? What a gap! 

Not that I want involve myself in this.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

bruno lemat said:


> wrong.Dude love vs stone cold are the best foley match in his career.


DUH, sharkboy22!!



iwatchwrestling said:


> Orton/Benoit is missing, and do you go from ****1/2 to ***1/2 in a top matches list? What a gap!
> 
> Not that I want involve myself in this.


And where is Orton vs. Christian at OTL '11, bruno lemat? I thought that was easily **** 1/2, at least.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy and LLMe do not indulge him, he just wants to get a rise out of us

hbk/jarrett is marvelous still, seriously in my top 5 hbk matches and MOTY for 95


IWW you still have that summerslam list ?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

@LilOlMe Please forgive me lol.

Btw, I never noticed you on this forum before. Then again, I hardly post elsewhere. Been posting a lot in WOW section lately since the best ass contest tournament started 

Anyway, I've never noticed you in this thread. How long have you been posting here?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> sharkboy and LLMe do not indulge him, he just wants to get a rise out of us
> 
> hbk/jarrett is marvelous still, seriously in my top 5 hbk matches and MOTY for 95
> 
> ...


You mean the one where I did one match from each Summerslam? If so, here you go.



Spoiler: Summerslam



1988 - Hart Foundation/Demolition ***
1989 - Ultimate Warrior/Rick Rude ***1/2
1990 - Ultimate Warrior/Rick Rude **1/2
1991 - Bret Hart/Mr. Perfect ****1/4
1992 - Bret Hart/Davey Boy Smith ****1/2
1993 - Shawn Michaels/Mr. Perfect ***3/4
1994 - Bret Hart/Owen Hart ****1/2
1995 - Shawn Michaels/Razor Ramon ****1/4
1996 - Shawn Michaels/Vader ****
1997 - Bret Hart/Undertaker ***1/2
1998 - Stone Cold/Undertaker ***
1999 - Test/Shane McMahon ***1/2
2000 - TLC ****1/4
2001 - X-Pac/Tajiri ***1/2
2002 - Kurt Angle/Rey Mysterio ***3/4
2003 - Kurt Angle/Brock Lesnar ****1/4
2004 - Randy Orton/Chris Benoit ****1/4
2005 - Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero ***
2006 - Ric Flair/Mick Foley ****
2007 - Triple H/King Booker ***
2008 - Edge/Undertaker ****1/4
2009 - DX/Legacy ****
2010 - Team WWE/Team Nexus ***3/4
2011 - Randy Orton/Christian ****1/2
2012 - Chris Jericho/Dolph Ziggler ***3/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is that NEXUS/Team WWE match worth it? I heard Cena no sold a DDT to concrete floor, so I never bothered with it.

Since Summerslam is this Sunday (I can't wait!! Actually I can. The last time I really got excited for a PPV was MITB '11 and ER '12) I'm gonna watch SS '04.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea man thanks

Wait !! Shawn Michaels and Perfect had a match ? :mark: one of my dream matches I never knew about


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Team WWE/Nexus is good, but the finish ruins it. It's especially stupid when Nexus continued on long after Summerslam.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nexus/WWE is only good for Ryback and Bryan's performance. Cena was truly awful in that match. One of the worst babyface performances I have seen.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

So watching SS 05.... Very fun show! Some ratings from the show.

HBK/Hogan: ****

Cena/Jericho: ****1/4

Undertaker/Orton: ****1/4

JBL/Batista: ***1/4


I'll never get tired of Shawn selling the big boot :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Since Summerslam is just around the corner I've started watching SS 01, will post thoughts when I finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Is that NEXUS/Team WWE match worth it? I heard Cena no sold a DDT to concrete floor, so I never bothered with it.


Watch it. It's such a hot match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> @LilOlMe Please forgive me lol.
> 
> Btw, I never noticed you on this forum before. Then again, I hardly post elsewhere. Been posting a lot in WOW section lately since the best ass contest tournament started
> 
> Anyway, I've never noticed you in this thread. How long have you been posting here?


I don't post in this thread too much. Just every once in awhile. Probably why you've never noticed before!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Ratings for No Way out 2003*

Jeff Hardy vs Chris Jericho- ★★★1/2
William Regal & Lance Storm vs Kane & RVD- ★★3/4
Matt Hardy vs Billy Kidman- ★★★
The Undertaker vs The Big Show- ★★★1/4
Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit vs Team Angle- ★★★3/4
Triple H vs Scott Steiner- ★1/2
Austin vs Bischoff- *N/A*
The Rock vs Hulk Hogan- *DUD*

*Overall:* Pretty average PPV with the Handicap match being the match of the night with Taker vs Big Show right behind it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy crap, did anyone see Big E vs Justin Gabriel from Main Event? A good performance by both men


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No Way Out 2003 is a stacked card with horrible main events. Goes to show how bad RAW was that year.

Thanks for the rec, sharkboy22. I'll definitely check it out. Is anybody here well-versed in any good Superstars matches this year? Specifically directed to the Paramore fan.

I've never seen the DX/Legacy series before outside of their awful HIAC match, but I'll be checking them out now. Hopefully they meet the hype.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

SummerSlam is mostly good. Breaking Point is probably worse than the HIAC which I agree sucked.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Summerslam is a very good match. Sweet fucking entrance too. Need to watch Breaking Point and HIAC again. I remember hating how they locked people out of the cell.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched a HBK/Jericho 3/15/10 raw match that was very good, real gem


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Definitely gonna recheck that HBK/Jericho match. Never even knew it occurred, and Jericho/Michaels is my all-time favorite chemistry.

DX/Legacy at Summerslam is real good. The twenty minutes passed by really quickly. Not a big fan of the submissions count anywhere match. Some of the stuff here just made my eyes roll. Not as horrible as the HIAC disaster though. I think nothing beats the shittiness of the Jerishow/DX TLC match.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> Holy crap, did anyone see Big E vs Justin Gabriel from Main Event? A good performance by both men


Saw it live, you really liked it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NWO 2003 is all about Undertaker vs Big Show. The Handicap match was solid, but nothing too special. I liked Jericho vs Hardy & the Cruiserweight Championship match over it too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

But that 5* World Title bout :HHH


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I try to view the HHH vs. Steiner matches as comedy, because then I actually enjoy the hell out of them :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The NWO one is just as hilarious as the Rumble match, tbhayley. They're so shit. It really is comical.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> yea man thanks
> 
> Wait !! Shawn Michaels and Perfect had a match ? :mark: one of my dream matches I never knew about


Don't get too excited, its not nearly as good as it should gave been, quite disappointing really.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Holy crap, did anyone see Big E vs Justin Gabriel from Main Event? A good performance by both men


I'll need to give this a watch. Like both guys.

Getting fairly excited for Summerslam at this point.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

NWO 2003 is one of the few shows I own. On VHS.

Enjoyable undercard with a terrible pair of main events. Sylvain Grenier of all people helped The Rock win that night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sylvain as the crooked official. 

I miss those days.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

He also was the referee for the Vince/Hogan Street Fight a month later. A few weeks after he debuted with Rene Dupree as La Resistance :lol


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Couldn't sleep, so how 'bout some madness? 

Steiner Brothers vs. Chris Benoit & Jushin Liger

Pt. 1:






Pt. 2:







Good Lord, this match is stiff. Liger just plants Scott on the top rope with absolutely no care. Scott legitimately looked like he got the wind knocked out of him, and that's before the main move was even supposed to happen. :lol Looks like that hurt his...

Then Liger starts suplexing Scott, before Scott even has his footing right.

Benoit looked like he almost broke his own neck when he did that Frankensteiner off the top rope.

Rick looked visibly annoyed with Scott after Scott clotheslined Benoit as Rick was suplexing him, lmao. Guess they didn't communicate on that one!

Benoit almost toppled over sideways when Scott had him on the top rope.

But still, great match! :lol And sick Steiner Screwdriver!

You can see how much height Benoit gets on that flying headbutt in comparison to Liger.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That match is fucking fabulous, I mean look at the people involved, but its one of those dream matches that delivers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sylvain's jog to the ring @ WM 19. Some more comical moments. Smile on his face. Just happy to be part of Vince's plan.

Liger match plug, eh? Well that's a nice sight.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Glad I could contribute in some way. :lol I watched the Hennig video you posted and enjoyed it, btw.



zep81 said:


> That match is fucking fabulous, I mean look at the people involved, but its one of those dream matches that delivers.


I liked the organized chaos feel to it, even though there were moments of actual chaos chaos (the moments that I mentioned), lol.

Liked Scott audibly calling for Rick when he was in "trouble." I like those little touches of selling things in a way that people usually don't.

And I like how Scott always talked shit, even when he was a face. "It's over!"


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Shield vs NXT guys from this week's NXT is an awesome Shield's match, ****. It felt just like the old Shield's matches, the pre Extreme Rules one.

** for Axel/Langston from the same show


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> ^Glad I could contribute in some way. :lol I watched the Hennig video you posted and enjoyed it, btw.


I had to stop and think which one that was for a second. Hit me once I remembered it was the Haku tag in Japan. Right on. (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Perfect/HBK also had a match in '91 whilst Shawn was with The Rockers, can't remember seeing it though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their SummerSlam '93 match is good. Typical 90's ending. Good all the same.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This is the match from 1991 i think:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was hoping it was going to be Perfect & someone vs The Rockers. :hayley2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Is the Perfect vs Hbk match at SuumerSlam the one on the Mr. perfect DVD? If so I've seen it about 5 times and thoroughly enjoyed it each time. Hennig was the man.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Is the Perfect vs Hbk match at SuumerSlam the one on the Mr. perfect DVD? If so I've seen it about 5 times and thoroughly enjoyed it each time. Hennig was the man.


Yeah that's the one mate, i thought the match could have been alot better tbh, but maybe i need to give it a rewatch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I guess it could have been better. Wasn't like it was bad or that Shawn was working on some high, high singles level just yet. It was around what I expected. Fast paced and well worked on the majority.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

At the time, HBK was carrying a bit of extra weight too, a quote from the man himself:



> At the time I weighed almost 240 pounds. I was fat and couldn't believe (Vince) thought that I was taking steroids no matter what the test results were. "Look at me, I'm out of shape. I'm drinking a case of beer every night with Nash and matching him meal for meal. I would tell you if I took steroids. Why would I of all people take steroids?"


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Saw it live, you really liked it?


It's nothing fantastic but like I said, it was a good performance by both men. Langston looked like a dominating big man and Gabriel had some nice little comeback. Was a good match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I guess it could have been better. Wasn't like it was bad or that Shawn was working on some high, high singles level just yet. It was around what I expected. Fast paced and well worked on the majority.


Pretty apt description from what I remember of it. I remember thinking it deserved about ***3/4 when I watched it last about a year ago. It doesn't come close to Perfects matches with Bret but it is very good. It's a shame Perfect was done as an active performer by the time Shawn came into his own as a mad bumping baby face in 96', it would have been cool to see a heel perfect vs baby face Shawn for the title program around then.

Anyone else love the Perfect vs Flair Loser Leaves Town match on Raw in 93' as much as I do? Such a solid match I absolutely love it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, several things to do today. Gotta get on that Steiner bros match posted a few pages back. Also, i just wanna say that Justin Gabriel is the most awesome lower midcard (sometimes jobber) on the entire roster. Justin Gabriel IS Main Event.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

To gear up for SummerSlam, I watched one of the favorite editions of the show, from 2005. My very quick review:

*United States Championship*: Orlando Jordan vs. Chris Benoit
This is what I call an "apology," for their GAB snoozer, one of the few bad Benoit matches, which lasted forever and for some reason was won by OJ. This rights all those wrongs. It's short, the right man won, and it gets the crowd pumped.

**

*Matt Hardy vs. Edge*
A brutal fight while it lasted, but I still think they could have gone a few more minutes.

**1/4

*Ladder Match for the Custody of Dominick*: Rey Mysterio vs. Eddie Guerrero
Only could these two have a ladder match with this many fuck-ups, a soap opera storyline, and it be so well done. They played their roles perfectly, the dramatic moments were intense, there was some awesome action, and a few great spots. I understand the shortcomings, but I still love this match.

****

*Kurt Angle vs. Eugene*
This succeeded in making Angle look like a legitimate monster. Short, intense, but like Hardy/Edge, could have benefited from a few more minutes.

**

*The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton*
Missing the high drama from the streak at WM, but still a very good match, these two had excellent chemistry, and this match is no different.

***3/4

*WWE Championship*: John Cena vs. Chris Jericho
At the time, this was such a hot feud, such a clash of styles and egos, and so much fun to watch. Jericho is at his heel best, Cena looks like such an underdog. They had some great exchanges, and I still think the finish is amazing. A running bulldog into the FU...amazing!

***3/4

*No Holds Barred Match for the World Heavyweight Championship*: Batista vs. JBL
Like Benoit/OJ, this match is an apology for the complete disaster a month before at the GAB. This match is half the length, with a perfect stip, and since they brawl through the crowd, outside the right, and finish in the ring, the pace is perfect. These two had terrible chemistry, but they made the most of it, and the finish was great.

**3/4

*Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels*
A carryjob if I ever saw one, but a great match is a great match. This was the best feud of the summer and it culminated in this incredibly intense matchup. The hate was so strong here, the atmosphere so amazing, even more intense than Rock/Hogan. Most of the match was just Hogan trying to fight HBK off, but it was never boring, had some great surprises, like HBK slapping Hogan twice, and of course, HBK's hilarious bumping. The finish is a little weak--finisher, kickout, hulkup, Hogan wins--a typical Hogan finish in 2005 is...meh. But controversy aside, this was a great main event, well worth the wait for the summer, and one of the favorite matches of all time.

****


I remember back in '05 this event being referred to as a "one-match show," for Hogan/HBK. I didn't understand it then and I don't now. A card with Hardy/Edge, Guerrero/Mysterio, Undertaker/Orton, Cena/Jericho, and Batista/JBL is hardly a one-match show.

This was a great ppv, and one of the best SummerSlams of all time, up there with '91, '02, and '09.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I want to drink a case of beer every night with Nash and match him meal for meal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Pretty apt description from what I remember of it. I remember thinking it deserved about ***3/4 when I watched it last about a year ago. It doesn't come close to Perfects matches with Bret but it is very good. It's a shame Perfect was done as an active performer by the time Shawn came into his own as a mad bumping baby face in 96', it would have been cool to see a heel perfect vs baby face Shawn for the title program around then.
> 
> Anyone else love the Perfect vs Flair Loser Leaves Town match on Raw in 93' as much as I do? Such a solid match I absolutely love it.


Really I have to watch it, those two are my guys, but I can see it being a stinker, hbk really didnt master the singles style until 94 although he had that masterful raw 93 match with Janetty. 


I absolutely adore flair/Perfect, may very well be my top raw match ever


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm gonna watch Summerslam '04 for sure today. I was going to last night but then Main Event started (it shows on Thursday where I'm from). Then I had a long distance call with a relative for like 3 hours. By that time, I was tired so i just went to sleep.

If I could as well, I wanna check out '05 just for Hardy/Edge. I've seen everything else on the card except for that one. Well that and OJ/Benoit but cares to see that 

Nice to see Cena/Jericho get some love. Btw, I've heard so many mixed reviews on Cena/Jericho Survivor Series '08. Some thoughts? i haven't seen it in since it took place and I can't remember anything from it. The only thing I remember is being pissed that Cena won the title on his first night back from injury.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I was a fan of Cena/Jericho SS '08 when it happened.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena/Jericho from SS 08 is awesome. I used to think it was average until kinda recently but the story they tell throughout is really superb. The rematch at Armageddon is worth watching too, though not quite as good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Really I have to watch it, those two are my guys, but I can see it being a stinker, hbk really didnt master the singles style until 94 although he had that masterful raw 93 match with Janetty.
> 
> 
> I absolutely adore flair/Perfect, may very well be my top raw match ever


Perfect is in my top 10 favorites of all time and HBK is in my top 5, I strongly recommend buying the Perfect DVD. It's not 2+ hours of documentary like the new great ones for Foley and Jericho, but it's still very good. It also has a match between Bret and Perfect that not many have seen from MSG in around 89-90. Plus it has the masterpiece that is the hour long draw between Hennig and Bockwinkle at the Showboat, but I dunno if you'd be into that because I thought I saw you say before you have trouble sitting through the longer matches. Either way with the very good documentary, and 3 very good to great matches (plus another pretty solid one with Kerry Von Erich as the Texas Tornado) it is well worth the $10 price tag.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Really I have to watch it, those two are my guys, but I can see it being a stinker, hbk really didnt master the singles style until 94 although he had that masterful raw 93 match with Janetty.


True, plus HBK didnt really wrestle much during the latter part of 93/into 94, here is what he said about that time:


> Any time you come off a loss at a Pay-Per-View, what you do the next night is very important - more important than the loss the night before. I thought I could make a big impact with a brand-new interview segment and had thrown out the idea of doing one sometime before WrestleMania X. I figured it would elevate my status in the public's eye, because if I didn't wrestle all the time, the times I did wrestle would seem more special. Roddy Piper was the master of this. When he was doing Piper's Pit, you almost never saw Roddy wrestle on TV. He only wrestled on major occasions. That's exactly what I wanted to do. The Ladder match changed a lot of people's perspective on me, and I was now trying to become a star and a special commodity.
> 
> Along with doing The Heartbreak Hotel, I became Kevin's accomplice. It was almost a reversal of what he had done for me. It made no sense for him to have me for his bodyguard, but I'd come to the ring for all his matches and cause trouble. I was very active on the outside and still bumping all over the place.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just read that BROCK says he has a few more Manias left in the tank. :hb


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HE GOT A LOT LEFT IN DA TANK.

Figuring out what to watch today. Maybe a full Summerslam event, maybe more Trips matches, not sure. Maybe something stupid like Summerslam 2006.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of HBK, im uploading the HBK/Razor ladder match from a House Show (San Jose 1994), Fancam. Sure most have seen it, but will post here when its done for those interested.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'll watch Summerslam 1997 later today. It's the PPV that I have reached to in my Attitude Era rewatch. It also helps watching past Summerslams considering the event is just two days away.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> HE GOT A LOT LEFT IN DA TANK.
> 
> Figuring out what to watch today. Maybe a full Summerslam event, maybe more Trips matches, not sure. Maybe something stupid like Summerslam 2006.


SOMETHING STUPID :brock

Foley/Flair is anything but stupid, buddy.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> SOMETHING STUPID :brock
> 
> Foley/Flair is anything but stupid, buddy.


Between Foley's selling and Flair's trash talking, that match is solid. Don't remember most of the rest of the card besides DX/McMahon's/half the roster.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Edge/Cena is awesome too.

And for what is worth, Hogan/Orton was fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> I'll watch Summerslam 1997 later today. It's the PPV that I have reached to in my Attitude Era rewatch. It also helps watching past Summerslams considering the event is just two days away.


You're about to see Stone Cold Steve Austin get his neck broken then. That shit is hard to watch for me, Steve Austin getting legit tomb stone pile driven to the mat without any protection. Imagine the pain that would cause? Ugh makes me shiver just thinking about it.

I hope Brock sticks around for as long as his ring skills hold up. It's not like the WWE has a ton of legit Main Event talent, and Brock brings that big fight atmosphere to the matches he wrestles in. I'd love to see him and Mark Henry go at it at least once before Henry or Lesnar leave, and match with Daniel Bryan sometime in the future could be good. Same with a match with Orton and maybe Ziggler. So yea he's got several opponents still to work his way through before the Brock experience runs it's course. I still think he is under appreciated by a lot of people, he's one of the legit BEST big men workers of all time, and he was so polished so early it was almost scary. And I love the chemistry he has with Heyman, those two should always be put together.

Edit-I'm trying to watch some matches from guys I have never seen before, and my buddy has been telling me to check out some of Luke Harper's stuff in NXT. You guys got any recommendations? He said Harper is exactly the kind of wrestler I would like so I'm kinda excited.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> You're about to see Stone Cold Steve Austin get his neck broken then. That shit is hard to watch for me, Steve Austin getting legit tomb stone pile driven to the mat without any protection. Imagine the pain that would cause? Ugh makes me shiver just thinking about it.


 Yeah and then he still plays to his character in the post-match celebrations. Last time I watched the match I remember liking it but the finish to the match (Austin's injury and his awkward roll up victory) will forever overshadow the match sadly. There is a video of Owen Hart speaking about the match briefly where he explains a guys health is more important than entertaining thousands in the crowd.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

In case anyone would like it: 

Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) (San Jose 1/14/94)

House Show - Shot by Fancam:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...er-match-san-jose-1-14-94-a.html#post22599497


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> In case anyone would like it:
> 
> Shawn Michaels vs Razor Ramon (Ladder Match) (San Jose 1/14/94)
> 
> ...


I love you so much right now :mark:

I love all their matches and their raw matches are very good the 2 8/94

and sagiuw MI one


@cjack828 yea same, Shawn is my favorite and perfect #3 on my list ( my sig doesnt do him any justice for some reason just like Rey) I need to look into that Perfect dvd, I'm in America so some of those sites dont work for me, and theere really isnt a "$4 wall-mart bin" near me


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the Angle/HBK 'Iron Man' match like?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It's only a 30-min iron man from Raw, right? I don't think it was anything special. Probably in the ***1/2 range from what I can recall.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> What is the Angle/HBK 'Iron Man' match like?





The Lady Killer said:


> It's only a 30-min iron man from Raw, right? I don't think it was anything special. Probably in the ***1/2 range from what I can recall.


You guys actually read my mind I was about to watch some hbk/angle, that exact one, should I bother ? is the vengence better ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Summerslam 2006

Rey/Chavo ***
Big Show/Sabu **3/4
Hogan/Orton ***1/2
Flair/Foley ****1/2
King Booker/Batista **1/2
DX/McMahons ***
John Cena/Edge ***3/4

Flair/Foley and Cena/Edge saved this from being a poor event. The I Quit Match actually went up on this viewing, and I recommend it to everyone. Flair's trash talking and Foley's selling, like I said earlier, is terrific. Cena/Edge is pretty fun also. Edge has a good control segment, Cena hits his five moves, but Edge stays in control. Edge goes to the top, Cena looks for the FU from the top, Edge gets down and comes from below and Cena counters the Edge-i-cution (I guess you spell it that way) into the victory roll for a two count. Cena gets Edge in the STFU and Lita looks like she's coming in with the belt, but Edge can lose the title by DQ. Edge reaches the ropes, Cena backs off and Lita slides brass knuckles onto Edge's fingers. Cena gets Edge up for the FU, Lita comes in and Cena gets her up also, flips her over, Edge slides out and hits Cena in the back of the head with the brass knucs while the referee tends to Lita. Edge gets the 1-2-3.

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Hogan thought his match with Orton should have closed, or at least been higher on the card. LOL at that. This was nothing more than a typical Hogan comeback. Orton hit the RKO, or all that he could at least with Hogan taking it rather awkwardly. Hogan gets his foot on the rope to stay alive in the match. Orton thinks he's won, Hogan hulks up and wins. Orton probably should have won this, as Hogan probably shouldn't have even been in the ring. Legend Killer though :mark:

Everything is else whatever. Rey/Chavo was a decent match but Chavo coming out of retirement to protect the Guerrero name? Dumbass story. And the crowd totally booed Rey when he did the three Amigos. 

Again, not a great event. Without Flair/Foley, there's nothing above the **** mark, even though the WWE title match comes close.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Team WWE vs Nexus - Summerslam '10 - ****1/2

Can't get enough of that match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Don't think I've seen that. Missed a lot of that whole Nexus thing. Will check it out.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Don't think I've seen that. Missed a lot of that whole Nexus thing. Will check it out.


I'd definitely recommend it. It's got a bunch of different storylines in it and Bryan and Sheffield are awesome.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cena/Edge from Summerslam 2006 gets ****** from me. Big fan of that match.



The Lady Killer said:


> Don't think I've seen that. Missed a lot of that whole Nexus thing. Will check it out.


Here you go:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:hb thanks man.

JoMo and Bryan on the same team =


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've had this wacky idea that they should bring back Otunga as a judge. Say he got promoted while he was gone or something. And then do backstage segments called Superstars Court or something over some real petty shit. I feel like it'd be hilarious.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I liked the WWE/Nexas tag at Summerslam, but damn that ending. Bryan was fucking awesome, so was most of Team Nexus. Cole was doing his by God best to bury Bryan, and he just wouldn't let up.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That Hogan/Orton match is just so random.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I love you so much right now :mark:
> 
> I love all their matches and their raw matches are very good the 2 8/94
> 
> ...



You're a redskins fan so I'm guessing your from DC like me? Anyways I got it off of amazon for about $8.99 if I remember correctly

I'm glad to see some love for Flair vs Foley. I've seen an interview with Mick where he was talking about how he wasn't happy with that match, that they had their time cut before they went out and Mick sorta rushed the ending and that's what kept it from being a 5 star classic. I can't imagine how awesome it would have been if they hadn't had to rush the ending, because I really enjoyed that match and thought it was easily a ****1/4 bout. I'm an admitted massive Foley mark so I could be overrating it just cause I love the guy.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

> Wow-- Mark Henry reveals his future plans and talks about his relationships with Owen Hart, Yokozuna, the current locker room and much more. He also gives his history in the business and talks about being sent to Calgary as punishment and a learning experience. He also gives his number 1 wrestler of all time and it is not Austin, Hogan, or the Rock!


Long interview with Henry day after MITB 2013.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ok after rewatching the HBK vs a perfect match from SS93 I have to re-evaluate and give it ****. There were 2 obvious botches, but other than that and the "meh" ending, this match totally delivered. I think because its Mr Perfect vs HbK I tended to underrate it because its not the 5star bout you'd expect to see, but it is still VERY good. If that match was held today people would be all about it, because its such a classy match. And Bobby Heenan on commentary is just tremendous. I swear, I'd pay a hefty fee every year to have Heenan and JR commentate for every match. Having great commentators makes a HUGE difference, you don't realize it until you watch older matches that don't have that dolt Michael cole and JBL (to be fair I actually like JbL). Heenan when Perfect punches out Diesel standing at ring side " HE HIT A MAN WITH GLASSES! DID YOU SEE THAT?! HE HIT A MAN WITH GLASSES! THAT'S DESPICABLE" :lmao. Man I love Heenan.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton - WWE Unforgiven 2003: ***3/4*

It's Legend vs. Legend Killer and it's a damn good match. The match starts off with Shawn getting the upper hand, showing off his experience and exploiting Randy's youth. The momentum changes when Shawn gets his shoulder rammed onto the steel post. With help from Flair, who was at ringside with Orton and damaged Shawn's shoulder even more, Randy makes good work on the shoulder. Shawn makes a comeback and was going to connect with the Sweet Chin Music, Randy countered it with an RKO, but took too long to cover him and Shawn kicked out. The match goes on with some good back and forth action, culminating in Shawn doing Sweet Chin Music to Randy. As Shawn covers Orton, Flair put Randy's foot on the ropes while the ref counted to three, but the decision was changed as the ref thought Randy got a rope break before he counted to three. Flair hands Randy brass knuckles, distracts the ref while getting Sweet Chin Music himself, and Randy uses the brass knucks to knock HBK out and get the victory. Even though the finish was a bit meh, I still thought this was a very good match that told a good story.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Summerslam 2006
> 
> Rey/Chavo ***
> Big Show/Sabu **3/4
> ...


You still call it a poor event even thought that's the most positive looking review w/snowflakes I have ever seen. Interesting, haha. Can't believe you didn't loathe Batista vs Booker. That one is in the negatives.

It's funny, I really don't hate that show as much as most. Yeah the Smackdown matches really sucked. And the two gimmick matches were either sloppy or had bullspit endings(c) but at least they were fun. Hogan vs Orton was better than anyone would have thought & then McMahons carried DX to an awesome match. Tie it up with Cena & Edge's best match vs each other and it's not the worst thing ever. Not even the worst "big four" PPV of '06 either. That title can go easily to Rumble or Survivor Series first.



Brye said:


> Team WWE vs Nexus - Summerslam '10 - ****1/2
> 
> Can't get enough of that match.


Angle was so hot. Makes the match feel huge. Fans exploded for every aspect. Ryback was the MAN in it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

EmbassyForever said:


> Long interview with Henry day after MITB 2013.


Awesome interview. I think I listened to part of it when it came out, but didn't listen to all of it. Just did, and that was some great shit. Loved the top 5 talk. Him having Andre as number 1 is really something, and his reasoning for it, how he backed it up, was perfect. It does sound odd though tbh, because Andre was like 2-3 eras before I watched wrestling, so it's hard for me to grasp how big he was (not literally). However because of stuff like what Henry has said, and what I've heard others say, Andre is in my personal top 10 and it's stuff like this that has made me in the past go back and watch a bit of Andre. My dad has always said, and he's a guy who watched back in the Hogan/Andre days, that his top 3 are: 1) Hogan 2) Andre 3) Taker. 

Also, Rock being number 2 and then Taker being number 3 for him is pretty awesome to hear, and again, his reasoning is extremely well put. Couldn't agree more with him calling Taker Mr. Wrestlemania after what he's done the last 6 years. 

And then it's great he'll be around for another 3 years, and that he does still want the WWE Title. Even though that doesn't necessarily mean he'll get one, it gives a little bit of hope that he's not giving up on it just because he's probably in the last few years of his career.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Survivor Series was so horrible in 2006. There were so many bad PPVs that year even though there were lots of good TV stuff. Mostly towards the end with Cyber Sunday, Survivor Series and December to Dismember.

Finally got around to watch that Henry interview and it was pretty awesome. He sounds like a pretty cool guy and it was funny when he talked about the steel cage botch in early 2006. That was hilarious, rewatched it the other day and can't believe how long it took for the TV edit alone.

Also watched Undertaker vs RVD from Vengeance 01 today. What an awesome fight, ★★★¾.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett SD 8/16/13

***3/4-****

Really awesome, high drama stuff. Felt as if I were watching one of those never ending Raven matches lol. I love matches like this. What an adrenaline rush.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs RVD dream match stole that show.

Cyber Sunday 2006 wasn't _as_ bad as I remembered when I watched it recently. Kane vs Umaga is insanely rad. Rated RKO vs DX is like really, really good too. Expected it to be pretty Triple H/Shawn Michaels bullshitty, but it wasn't. Really strong tag team formula implemented and the WWE shenanigans didn't come through till the very end. Which did earn the match a ton of heat. Like it a ton more than the NYR match. Big Show's performance saved the main event. The only time the match was bad was when Show wasn't involved for that decent chunk. All times he was in = BIG SHOW. Choosing to dub that as "not bad" overall instead of calling the entire match poor. Cena vs Booker just can't work vs each other. I loved Hardy getting pissed at that numpty Carlito during their match too. Which did suck, but eh. It's Carlito. What did you expect? Hardy totally hits the stiffest swanton bomb on him to win the match. Visibly wanted to say 'fuck you' to the hack. <3 you Jeff. Then you get comedy in the form of Lita vs Mickie James. JR burying it was more great times. You got to appreciate all the good you can get from the sport. Even if it's reveling in the mediocrity.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only match I liked from Cyber Sunday was Rated RKO/DX and even that one is nowhere near as good as NYR imo. Cena was in control of a large portion of the main event and he seemed clueless as if he was just hitting moves to advance the match and how long was Big Show out of it after he was hit with the steps outside? A bullshit finish with K-Fed getting involved too. Not a fan and I didn't care for Umaga/Kane part 310580815 either, specially when those idiots could have picked Benoit to face Umaga which could have been an excellent match. Even the fucking Sandman got more votes ffs.

I also recall the Mickie/Lita match being completely DEAD to the point it felt like backyard wrestling. And yeah, Carlito/Hardy was total crap too. Had no interest in seeing a completely out of shape Piper shirtless either. So that PPV got a lot going against it.

RVD has so many great matches in his WWE run, I just keep coming across more and more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was only the fourth Kane vs Umaga match to happen. Not gonna put down a really good match all b/c Chris Benoit didn't win some pointless vote.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton - WWE Unforgiven 2003: ***3/4*
> 
> It's Legend vs. Legend Killer and it's a damn good match. The match starts off with Shawn getting the upper hand, showing off his experience and exploiting Randy's youth. The momentum changes when Shawn gets his shoulder rammed onto the steel post. With help from Flair, who was at ringside with Orton and damaged Shawn's shoulder even more, Randy makes good work on the shoulder. Shawn makes a comeback and was going to connect with the Sweet Chin Music, Randy countered it with an RKO, but took too long to cover him and Shawn kicked out. The match goes on with some good back and forth action, culminating in Shawn doing Sweet Chin Music to Randy. As Shawn covers Orton, Flair put Randy's foot on the ropes while the ref counted to three, but the decision was changed as the ref thought Randy got a rope break before he counted to three. Flair hands Randy brass knuckles, distracts the ref while getting Sweet Chin Music himself, and Randy uses the brass knucks to knock HBK out and get the victory. Even though the finish was a bit meh, I still thought this was a very good match that told a good story.


Real good match. Flair was goddamn annoying in this match though. Almost ruined the match for me haha.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Since you guys were talking about Mania 28 yesterday I decided to just rewatchTriple H vs Undertaker Hell in a Cell and CM Punk vs Jericho from Mania 28. After watching both back to back, I don't understand how anyone could say Taker vs HHH was a better WRESTLING match than what Punk and Jericho did. If the crowd for the punk match wasn't so dead/stupid, I think it would be more obvious than it is. The crowd was just silent for the first 15+ minutes even though punk and Jericho were putting on a clinic. I rate Punk vs Jericho ****1/2 and Taker vs Triple H ****. Ill admit, the storytelling in the Taker match was sublime, but I gotta be honest here: Shawn Michaels hurt that match more than he helped it. The only positive thing I can say he contributed was that SCM kick before the pedigree to help that amazing false finish. Other than that, his corniness and overselling really took me out of the match at times. I really didn't remember it being that bad when I watched it during the original airing. I dunno, maybe having a bit of color would have helped the HiaC match, because at times the drama seemed a bit contrived. Takers performance was spot on, but whether its my innate Haitch Hate or what, but Triple H's "acting" drove me a bit nuts in a couple spots. That said there was still a fair amount to like about it, the storytelling and psychology being at the top. I just wish there was more actual wrestling, it seemed like a lot of chair shots to the back and then just lying around while trips and Shawn argued about who should "end it". Ok I'm gonna stop I feel like I'm just bashing a match I actually enjoyed now.

The last 5-7 minutes of Punk vs Jericho was about as good as it gets wrestling wise. Great back and forth action without compromising the psychology or story of the match. I really wish Punk would work more "snug" at times, but that goes for pretty much all of his matches. And I don't think I have ever seen a wrestler get less hang time on an elbow drop than Punk gets on his, like Ace Steel says in his documentary "Punk has lead in his ass". He needs to work on that so he can do the Macho Man proud. The series of counters in the end were terrific, and I really enjoyed Jericho's "omfg how did he kick out of that?!?!" Face after the 2 false finishes. If these guys cleaned up a bit of the sloppiness and the crowd was hotter, I could almost see this being a ***** match. As it is it gets ****1/2 from me and it deserved all of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never gonna let a tired crowd for Punker vs Jericho put a damper on it for me. Those two had the match I knew they could this whole time. Glad they had their best effort at WM. Makes the scenarios of "what could be" between the two seem very worth it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll go to bat for hhh/taker HIAC until I'm in a grave, punk/jerchio was decent as well.


I enjoyed umaga/kane and didnt care for benoit to win the vote tbh


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

About to watch the Flair/Orton Cage match from Taboo Tuesday 04. Any thoughts about this match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Never gonna let a tired crowd for Punker vs Jericho put a damper on it for me. Those two had the match I knew they could this whole time. Glad they had their best effort at WM. Makes the scenarios of "what could be" between the two seem very worth it.


I just will never understand, tired or not, how you can be at WRESTLE FUCKING MANIA and be witnessing a classic match like those two had and not just be losing your fucking mind. It baffles me. I was watching that match for the first time since last year in my room just now and it had me on the edge of my seat for just about every minute of it, completely captivated. I could watch that match on silent and just go by their expressions and still rate it just as high. Such a phenomenal match from two masters.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lord Flvcko said:


> About to watch the Flair/Orton Cage match from Taboo Tuesday 04. Any thoughts about this match?


Epic. About as sweet of a sub-10 minute steel cage match that you could have asked for.



cjack828 said:


> I just will never understand, tired or not, how you can be at WRESTLE FUCKING MANIA and be witnessing a classic match like those two had and not just be losing your fucking mind. It baffles me. I was watching that match for the first time since last year in my room just now and it had me on the edge of my seat for just about every minute of it, completely captivated. I could watch that match on silent and just go by their expressions and still rate it just as high. Such a phenomenal match from two masters.


I agree. Yeah, they were cheering for Undertaker vs Triple H a ton, but meh. I've cheered my ass off at long wrestling shows too. Yet I've stayed incredibly active from start to finish. It isn't hard. The desire is there. Especially when the match you're watching is great. I don't understand it but whatever. Let those who spent all that cash sit on their hands. Meanwhile I'm at home watching and going nuts. I got my money's worth. Do every time I watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd say its better than hhh/flair cage, but my hhh hate is just coming out, or maybe not ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really. Just personal preference. I dig both, but I'd probably agree. Or at least I can say I've watched Flair vs Orton much more. Felt like I was watching that match nightly for the first few months after I bought that show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lord Flvcko said:


> About to watch the Flair/Orton Cage match from Taboo Tuesday 04. Any thoughts about this match?


Pretty good match although a bit excessive with punch & chop exchanges between them.

And Jericho/Punk WM28 is one Punk match that I really like. I prefer Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena but all three are great matches and the dead crowd hardly affected it since there was an atmosphere throughout the match even when crowd was silent. It was not bad in the HHH/Lesnar way where you could hear a pin drop.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Pretty good match although a bit excessive with punch & chop exchanges between them.
> 
> And Jericho/Punk WM28 is one Punk match that I really like. I prefer Taker/HHH and Rock/Cena but all three are great matches and the dead crowd hardly affected it since there was an atmosphere throughout the match even when crowd was silent. It was not a bad match like HHH/Lesnar.


Fixed.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

what everyone's opinions on HHH/Jericho fully loaded ? Watching it now for the first time


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> what everyone's opinions on HHH/Jericho fully loaded ? Watchign it now for the first time


Awesome match. One of the best matches on both of their respective match catalogs. ****1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Overrated, but a good Jericho performance.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> what everyone's opinions on HHH/Jericho fully loaded ? Watching it now for the first time


I actually just watched that match a few days ago (thanks zep81!) and decided that it was every bit as good as I remember it being. Jericho was just fantastic as a baby face, he really sold everything well without coming off as silly or anything. it's one of Jerichos better matches from his first run in the WWE (he's had so many good ones so its hard to say definitively if its top 5 or whatever) but I would definitely recommend watching it. Pure enjoyment. Jericho is one of the best ever as far as his ability to convincingly play face or heel, and his selling is what really puts this match over the top. The crowd was great too, you could tell they were really buying the idea of Jericho as the new champion (as they should of, duh it's Chris freaking Jericho). I give it ****1/4.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> You still call it a poor event even thought that's the most positive looking review w/snowflakes I have ever seen. Interesting, haha. Can't believe you didn't loathe Batista vs Booker. That one is in the negatives.
> 
> It's funny, I really don't hate that show as much as most. Yeah the Smackdown matches really sucked. And the two gimmick matches were either sloppy or had bullspit endings(c) but at least they were fun. Hogan vs Orton was better than anyone would have thought & then McMahons carried DX to an awesome match. Tie it up with Cena & Edge's best match vs each other and it's not the worst thing ever. Not even the worst "big four" PPV of '06 either. That title can go easily to Rumble or Survivor Series first.


I'm generous with my snowflakes, so a ** match for someone else might be *** for me. Batista/Booker was shitty, no doubt. Again, I'm not quick to drop below a certain number of stars.

I guess, that for the 20th anniversary of Summerslam (2006) there should have been better quality. 

Oh, and I was kind to rate Hogan/Orton as high as I did. My Hogan hate is close to Warrior levels after that shit with Orton.

Watching Summerslam 2005 now. Will probably watch Rey/Eddie all the way through again to see if my feelings on it changed from two weeks ago.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I'm generous with my snowflakes, so a ** match for someone else might be *** for me. Batista/Booker was shitty, no doubt. Again, I'm not quick to drop below a certain number of stars.
> 
> I guess, that for the 20th anniversary of Summerslam (2006) there should have been better quality.
> 
> ...


Ah, I see.

Like I mentioned to ATF a few days ago, the Anniversary mark doesn't hold much to me. It's just a number. A milestone digit for sure, but nothing that would or should entail a more prosperous quality of matches. That's a crap shoot for any and all years.

Eh. Hogan went over. Didn't hurt Orton any and it was still good he got the match to begin with. Orton was in a worse place following it as they had nothing better to do than to group him vs Carlito. That was the lowest point. Luckily he won and moved onto the duo with Edge. Punishment fits the crime, however. He had to settle with mediocrity for his transgressions.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> what everyone's opinions on HHH/Jericho fully loaded ? Watching it now for the first time





> HHH v Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 7/23/00)
> I remember a "Legends of Wrestling" Roundtable Discussion where Mick Foley said that Matt Borne gave him advice about how to work as an evil heel. Borne supposedly said something along the lines of "don't cheat and hurt because you need to in order to win the match, cheat and hurt because just want to". I think that's a really cool way of looking at being a dick in the pro-graps, and it's the impression I got from Trip through a lot of this. This is typically called his best performance, and while I'm not 100% convinced it is, I thought he showed a lot here and would rate him much higher than I do right now if he worked liked this all the time. If someone kissed my wife, sent her flowers, and continuously called her trashy names, I wouldn't think as much about winning the wrestling match as much as I would think about mauling the little shit in front of me who was responsible for it. And I'll be damned if I wouldn't be enjoying it. Jericho got his shine in before Trip hits the ribs on the barricade, and then things pick up and Helmsley spends the majority of the time they get strictly attacking that area. Normally I think a guy would be in a psycho frenzy if someone spat shit about his wife, yet I thought the cool and calm approach to the rib work was really what gave Trip that "oh I am going to enjoy THIS" aura. He hit his stuff really well, too. The Flair knee drops on the back looked a lot better than they often do when he uses a knee to the head, and the knee-counter to the lionsault looked nasty. Wicked chairshot or two as well. The abdominal stretch kind of fell apart, which can make it look sucky, but it instead just added a violent touch; like Jericho's body was crumpled and mangled in a demented shape. I mentioned a couple of times how Trip was in a 'methodical' mood, but I really loved how he seemed to get more and more frustrated when Jericho wouldn't stay down. It all came to boiling point when Jericho did a crotch chop and Trip runs at him all pissed off and "Ok, time to end this". Jericho's comeback being kicked off with a low-blow was oddly satisfying, and he did a pretty great job pulling off spin kicks while still selling the after-effects of the beatdown that HHH gave to him for umpteen minutes. On that note, I didn't think Trip sold the walls of Jericho very well. Actually, while he was IN it he was really good; he had this bloody as hell face and was struggling to get the ropes before realising there weren't even rope breaks to begin with. My little problem was that when Steph came in and pulled Jericho off of him, Trip kinda got up all OK and didn't really do the move justice. IDK, maybe I should've been watching Jericho and Steph instead of Trip, but that kind of irked me a little. Whether or not that and the finish (a lame table spot) happened, they weren't going to put a very big stain on this fine piece of......something. Tablecloth. The match is a tablecloth. This is no all-time great performance from Helmsley (like some think it is) nor is it an all time great match (like some think it is), but I could see it as a top 100 of the 2000s. It'll be sitting at #2 of the TWO matches I have right now, but I'd be lying if I said it was a lock. It's probably better than every Star Wars and Terminator, though.


 

Final line is a poke at Cal who was annoyed that me and some others had never watched a Star Wars or Terminator move in full.

Hoping to start watching 2010 stuff today. Hoping.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, I really need to watch those Kane/Umaga matches from '06. I recall really liking the Loser Leaves Raw and CS ones. And the Unforgiven one is a fun brawl.

Edit: Barrett/Bryan was pretty interesting tonight. I enjoyed it. Lots of stuff happening.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm so glad Summer Rae doesn't dress like it's a PG show. On that note the Jericho/Fandango match from Extreme Rules was a lot better than their Mania match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Final line is a poke at Cal who was annoyed that me and some others had never watched a Star Wars or Terminator move in full.
> 
> Hoping to start watching 2010 stuff today. Hoping.


gtfo with the last line :|

Never thought it would take you this long to jump on some key Mysterio or McIntyre matches. Fingers crossed. TODAY.



Brye said:


> Man, I really need to watch those Kane/Umaga matches from '06. I recall really liking the Loser Leaves Raw and CS ones. And the Unforgiven one is a fun brawl.
> 
> Edit: Barrett/Bryan was pretty interesting tonight. I enjoyed it. Lots of stuff happening.


Unforgiven is good, but wow Cyber Sunday's is that match upped to a severe degree. It's so great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton was completely directionless and the Hogan loss didn't really help him around that time. But I guess it was punishment because he violated the wellness policy for the first time around that month. Rated RKO really brought him back to the top and from then on he never looked back until the last couple of years but luckily, he seems to be on the way back to the top again! It's been a long wait and one of the main reasons I'm excited about SummerSlam.

I prefer Unforgiven to Cyber Sunday from the Kane/Umaga matches. But I found them kind of interchangeable so I don't really remember very much at this point other than Umaga doing an awesome Spike from the top rope on Kane after he sat up. Think this one was CS so points for that one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Great review Yeah, someone like you really doesn't need to slap the starz on a match to explain your liking of a match, unfortunately like many times I got side tracked and watched some Dbryan and not HHH/ Jericho yet


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't go wrong with Danielson. Forgot about his match with Wade tonight. Pumped for that and the six man.

Did Christian vs Sandow suck? b/c their match from Main Event earlier this year was really bad. I don't want to stand that again.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Can't go wrong with Danielson. Forgot about his match with Wade tonight. Pumped for that and the six man.
> 
> Did Christian vs Sandow suck? b/c their match from Main Event earlier this year was really bad. I don't want to stand that again.


It's decent and watchable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That'll have to do. 

Realized I still have to watch NXT this week too. Not even sure what the card holds this week. It's probably good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

In the midst of Summerslam 2005, and just finished Rey/Eddie for the second time in two weeks. My ranking/feelings on this match hasn't changed. They did some cool stuff with the ladder, and Eddie played the heel well. The botches hurt it for me though. Eddie missed the sunset flip off the ladder twice. The first time, he missed Rey on the way down and hit his head on the ladder and Rey just kind of instinctively fell. The second time Rey had one ladder propped against the standing one, and Eddie looked like he jumped to far too the side and the ladder slipped and Rey fell straight down. Cole tried to cover and call it a back body drop. Then, when Eddie pinned Rey under the ladder, Vickie was supposed to come and distract Eddie, but she missed her cue or they didn't send her out, so Eddie's up there looking like an idiot taking forever because he's waiting on her. Then Rey finally is able to turn the ladder over and Eddie's hanging from the briefcase, then Rey pulls him down and he lands awkwardly, and starts throwing that tantrum "Where the fuck was Vickie?" and all that. But when she finally comes back when he's up on the ladder, he gives this look as if to say, "Oh, now you're here?"

What was funny though, was when Eddie started climbing early and Rey was pretty incapacitated, Dominic tried to shake the ladder but obviously couldn't because he was 8 and had no strength. So, Eddie comes down and starts yelling "What are you doing?! I'm trying to climb! GIVE ME A HUG!" I lol'd at "Give me a hug!"

So yeah, that's my thoughts on that match. Time for Eugene/Angle. LAWD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I wasn't all that big on Sandow/Christian. Watchable but also forgettable, imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

GIVE ME A HUG line by Eddie always got me. That heel Eddie. Bless him.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Leaving in a few hours to LA for Axxess :mark:

Well, guess I should watch SummerSlam 2012 now


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Rey vs Jericho from Extreme Rules 09. Very good match with a good finish. ★★★¾.

Now it's Rey vs Morrison for the IC title.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rey/Morrison is such a fantastic match, imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished it. ★★★★. Indeed a fantastic match with lots of great back and forth. Rey has such a great catalog of matches with such a wide array of opponents. He's somebody I would want to do a top matches list for.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye I watched Punk vs Cabana. _(unless I told you already?)_ It was exactly how I remembered. Lighthearted and far from an epic, but plenty memorable for it being Punk's legit "final" ROH match. The Unscripted II tag match made sure he really left on a high match quality note. :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Summerslam 2005

Chris Benoit/Orlando Jordan LOL
Edge/Matt Hardy ***3/4
Rey Mysterio/Eddie Guerrero ***1/2
Kurt Angle/Eugene *1/2
Randy Orton/Undertaker ****1/4
John Cena/Chris Jericho ****1/4
Batista/JBL ***
Shawn Michaels/Hulk Hogan ****

Not talking about this right now, since I'm tired and going to bed, but a few quick notes: Edge/Hardy was good for the time they put in, and kept the feud going. Great sell from Hardy. For Rey/Eddie - see my post on the previous page. Angle/Eugene was entertaining (yes, entertaining). Angle hits some suplexes, Eugene hits the Rock Bottom, People's Elbow, and the Stunner. Angle's like, "fuck it, I'm not selling those" and makes Eugene tap. Orton/Taker is fucking awesome, same with Cena/Jericho. Batista/JBL doesn't bother me since they kept it short and to the point. We've just discussed the fuck out of Hogan/HBK within the last week so I won't go into it here. All I'll say now is that with all the work Shawn put in during that match, he should have at least gotten to kick out of a leg drop. The finish stunk, as he hit Hogan with the elbow drop, chair shot, and SCM, all in succession. But instead Hogan leaps up out of the pinfall, hits his punches, big boot, leg drop, 1-2-3. Fuck that. Still a good match though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I'd say its better than hhh/flair cage, but my hhh hate is just coming out, or maybe not ?


Despite my own distain for Trips today, I have to say that match us fucking brilliant, perfect, brutal story. I actually really liked that Flair/HHH feud.

I'll have to watch the LMS match again at some point.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Five minute clip of their last match? May as well post the entire match:

CENA vs BRYAN


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IT BEGINS.

Giving up on the 2000s list because I don’t like the pressure of meeting a deadline that I know I can’t (which is my own fault for putting shit off, but w/e), and to be honest I just didn’t get into the mood of it any more. I kept thinking ‘I’d like to make an ongoing list like this’, and then I’d think ‘I should really watch 2000s stuff instead. So then in some bizarre twist I wind up watching nothing. For whatever looney bin reason I came up with lists of stuff I know I’m not very fond of, ‘best ladder matches’, ‘best four-ways’, best TNA matches’ (honestly), and even though I want to go back to those ideas sometime, I figure that quitting the 2000s poll to start something stupid wouldn’t be very smart. Therefore it is being happening right now being therefore here I am doing the 2010 WWE doing list of matches, after all. WWE run an ungodly amount of matches a year so naturally I’m not going to watch them all the way I would have with ladder matches, but it’s the journey. I had so much goddamn fun putting together the 200s list and only when I considered it a bit of a chore did I give it up. It’s not a finished list at all, but I remember the fun I had watching Japanese dudes punch each other in the face. Oh the laughs we shared. Point is, I’m probably not going to finish watching all of the 2010 WWE I want to, but whatever I do watch will be fun. Some know I’ve started interest in making a list, eventually, of the 500 best wrestlers I’ve seen. What’s the chance of that list ever being finished? Maximum of 10% I’d say. MAXIMUM. What’s the chance of me having fun while trying to put that list together? I’m thinking somewhere in the 80s and hoping it’ll be the big three digits. I could read this paragraph again to fish out parts that don’t make sense (the parts that unintentionally don’t make sense, anyway), but this intro was unnecessary anyway. You’re proooooobably pretty stupid for reading it, actually. I have fooled you. There is nothing here. No list is going to be made. You have been dooped.


Sheamus v. Evan Bourne (Raw 1/4/10)
Interested to watch this for a few reasons. First being Sheamus. I kind of thought he was a boring sack of crap in 2010 and was only won over by him after seeing the TLC with John Morrison. Even after that I never went back and looked at his 2010, and as a result it’s been SOOOO long since I’ve seen the big Irish candle work heel, so I wanted to see if he was as good a heel as he is as a face. Another reason I’m interested in this is because I remember completely ignoring Raw through all of 2010. I practically didn’t watch anything other than Rey Mysterio in the first half of the year, and then the New Guy asplosion of Chris Masters and Drew McIntyre made me tune in to SD and SuperStars in the second half of the year. Meanwhile I was disgusted at the Miz becoming WWE Champion and refused to watch Raw until the Rock came back (and that Grandmaster Sexay episode). I remember Sheamus/Edge v. Cena/Bourne on Raw in 2010 which had people buzzing, but I just didn’t get into that match (I’m watching it again, noooo shit). So yeah, I’m curious how many Raw matches will make it on my list here, even in the ‘other contenders’ or whatever not-main list is there. OK now after all of that bullshit, I will talk actually about what happened in the match. Looks like I won’t be talking about it as long as why I wanted to see it thought because it gets like two minutes. If it was a Yokozuna v. Virgil-level two minute match I could blather on and on, but it isn’t so I won’t. It was fun, though, and had a bit of an old school vibe to me. You know those old matches in the studios where the big bad dude would be challenged by a guy who clearly won’t beat him but gets a really close nearfall on him in one minute? Yeah, it was like one of those. The crowd were chanting for Cena and everything. Sheamus took some kicks to the leg well and Bourne is always a great ragdoll. I did think Bourne’s sell of the Irish boot (or w/e) was a little phony, but his bump on the Irish Razor’s Edge (or w/e) made up for it. Why did I need to write all of this for a two minute match? Probably because I wrote 90% of it before I even watched it and didn’t realise the video was almost all promo. Weird match to start with and an even weirder paragraph of words from my brain. Yeah, look out, I’m in a talkative mood. WHY ARE YOU READING THIS? NOT ADDING


Goldust/Yoshi Tatsu v. The DudeBusters (ECW 2/9/10)
Only thing I remember from the DudeBusters is them using http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfB6OnjqBcA (which they didn’t entering for this match). Not sure I ever watched a bell-to-bell tag match from them. I can’t say they blew me away, but this was some good shit. The opening couple minutes aren’t anything special, but Tatsu and Barretta have some solid ‘roll around quickly to dazzle people’ exchanges. It isn’t until Goldust hits the FIP that things start shifting from ‘not anything special but solid’ to ‘this is some good shit’. Dustin is one of my ten favourite wrestlers of all time, and as well as he made the ridiculous idea of heel Goldust work, he’s in my ten favourites because of how good of a babyface he is. I haven’t watched too much wrestling in a while and I kind of drifted from what I loved in it. I mean it’s not like I forgot what I like in wrestling or stopped liking it to any degree, but I guess I kind of started to give it less priority than the GoldenEye and Zombies Ate My Neighbours games I was playing for the first time, or episodes of Seinfeld I hadn’t seen in a few years. Well I’ll be fucking damned if Goldust didn’t remind me why the graps is my #1 form of entertainment. The Dudes worked on his leg and watching him fight back while hopping and clubbing away viciously at Not-Baretta’s back to hopefully get a gasp of air really got me mentally rooting for him. There was this one super great moment near the end where Baretta knocks Tatsu to the floor and Goldust goes to reach an empty apron. I really love watching Dustin fight from underneath and I wish he got more opportunities after 1994 to do so (WHY DIDN’T DO A FUCKING DUSTIN/VADER FEUD THROUGH 1995?? FUCK. YOU. WCW.) This wasn’t even one of the better FIP I’ve seen, or anything close to it (hell I’m not even going to add it to the list)– I think I just needed something mildly good - that I was paying full attention to - to jog my wrestling memory. Does all of this hokey bullshit I’ve written mean I’ll watch a fuckton of wrestling tomorrow instead of playing Final Fantasy IV, listening to the soundtrack of Banjo-Kazooie, or watching the magic conch shell episode of SpongeBob Squarepants? No. But I’m more motivated to watch wrestling than I have been in a while. Thank you, Goldust, you weird, gold, black-eyed, face-painted, lisped, great FIP motherfucker. This was so lame. I feel lame. Seriously why are you reading this? NOT ADDING


Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
It’s been said before; this is a freakishly good match for six and a half minutes. I really love shorter matches, and it’s really impressive that two guys can create a match like this in a short amount of time. What’s so impressive to me is the selling. Sure, anybody can create a short match filled with tons of big spots. A big elaborate moonsault counter with supreme cheese suplex takes ten seconds to execute; you can pull of tons of them in the time given. But I love how two guys like Rey and Punk can kick out of these big moves, hit more, and not make any of it look like wasted motion, spotty selling, or just a mess of moves. Rey is so fucking good. I totally loved how, at the beginning here, he was moving side to side and really putting over Gallows and the bald chick as people he has to look out for in addition to Punk. Then Gallows pounds the mat to grab Rey’s attention so Punk can jump him and being him scumbaggery. Punk’s offense is so much better as a heel. I’m almost completely positive that he just works stiffer and tighter when he’s called on to be the jerk. He had some great stomps here and that reversal of the _whatever_ that resulted in Rey getting face-planted on the steps was stupendous. I was really impressed with Punk’s timing here on a couple of things, too. The nuts-onto-ring-post spot can usually look like the guy is clearly backing into the post to split his fruit basket. While it’s pretty much impossible to get it to look realistic (without actually causing genital damage, I imagine), Punk didn’t make it look outlandish. That DDT spot was super. It was sort of fucked up by the time Rey had loosely grabbed Punk’s head, but it looked like Punk knew that and went ‘fuck it, six minutes at Mania, I’m not letting anything fuck up’ and dove head first just to save the spot from being a botch. Rey pulls out a couple of sweet ass arm drags variations, and the 619/GTS reversals looked really cool; I especially liked Rey elbowing Punk’s head on every GTS attempt to get the hell out of there. Gallows and Not-Gallows Girl had awesome interferences and despite the length the match is really satisfying. First match for the list. Why are you reading this…when you could be watching the match? Fuck you, that WAS clever. ADDING

William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
You know what? I thought this was an even better six minutes than Rey/Punk. Regal was just unreal in this match. Early on Bourne is trying to escape armbars and armlocks by jumping onto Regal’s head with his legs, and Regal’s face absolutely perfectly described the situation he was in. It was a mixture of ‘fuck didn’t really expect that’ and ‘nah ah, watch me get out of this one’ while he head was being squeezed and he threw Bourne off of him. He kept mostly on top with power moves and submission holds that looked totally ridiculous. Whenever Bourne would get a couple of ranas or kicks in (which Regal sells the after-effects of perfectly by manoeuvring his jaw or arching his back), Regal would explode with a forearm and a suplex. After the first bit of ranas Bourne used, Regal just pulled the most ungodly bit of that out of his hat, like ‘not, fuck you, you AREN’T doing that, you WILL stay down, now get the FUCK down’. The lock where Regal had Bourne’s head and wrist tied up all at once was incredible and I wish someone would use that as a finisher hold. I love me some Bourne as face in peril and not many could have done what he did here, but Regal looked like the best in the world. Maybe I’m overrating him because I haven’t really been into wrestling for weeks and almost forgot what a best wrestler in the world looked like, but fuck it, while watching this I was an awestruck eleven year old. ADDING

----------------------

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1. William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
2. Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
21.
22.
23.
24.
25.

Other contenders:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fuck. You made me look stupid. Asshole opening paragraph.

Gonna read the rest of the goodies tomorrow. It's 4 AM. I CAN HAVE A PASS. btw, if I didn't mention it before, watch the 8 minutes six man tag from Superstars prior to WM. It's Christian, Henry, & Tatsu vs Regal, Swagger, & Ryder. Goodness if there is a more fun match all year I must have missed it. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The No Mercy 2008 match was the end of the HBK/Jericho 2008 feud wasn't it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Right before Survivor Series 2008 was. Their Last Man Standing on RAW ended things once and for all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Right before Survivor Series 2008 was. Their Last Man Standing on RAW ended things once and for all.


Thanks, just checking on that Raw, seemed that match was announced on the show (as its a UK show i believe). Seemed to be minimal interaction between HNK/Jericho after No Mercy.

Just checking


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alright guys.

Matches. What the fuck should I watch today.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hogan/Genius. Top three Hogan match in his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Thanks, just checking on that Raw, seemed that match was announced on the show (as its a UK show i believe). Seemed to be minimal interaction between HNK/Jericho after No Mercy.
> 
> Just checking


Yep. Happened in England. Same night when Regal squashed Santino to win the Intercontinental Championship & Mysterio vs Kane No DQ blowoff for their feud too. (Y)



The Beast Incarnate said:


> Alright guys.
> 
> Matches. What the fuck should I watch today.


Chikara. The quest to find another Manabu Nakanishi match that you liked. The best of John Heidenreich. R-Truth vs Mason Ryan where R-Truth botched the location pre-match.

I didn't totally stack the odds in favor of Chikara here. _(ok, but really if that's not your cup of tea watch some NXT Redemption matches. I may do the same today.)_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Alright guys.
> 
> Matches. What the fuck should I watch today.


Eddie Guerrero vs Edge No DQ match from Smackdown in November of 2002 I believe.

I just watched that match and holy fuck, was it awesome. Both wrestlers were on point the entire time, not one single botch I could see, and the entire match just flowed really well. The high spots were exciting, the story was compelling, and some of the stuff they did was just downright brutal. Edge legit busts Eddie wide open by repeatedly smashing his head into the top of the ladder over and over, and Eddie does some downright diabolical things with the ladder to Edge. Without a doubt the best thing about this match is the standing ovation Eddie gets from the crowd when it's over. Remember, he is still full blown heel at this time so that's really rare to have happen in 03'. This really is about as good as it gets as far as TV matches go, it gets ****1/2 from me. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Alright guys.
> 
> Matches. What the fuck should I watch today.


Or you can watch Jushin Liger vs Great Sasuke from the 94 Super J cup. I'm watching that match right now and I think my jaw has officially dropped to the floor. Holy hell :mark:

Edit-or anything with Liger vs Ohtani. I've seen 2 of their matches and they were both classics.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

What pairing that had the best chemistry is your top 5? Mine would be

1. HBK/Taker
2. HBK/Jericho
3. Jericho/Mysterio
4. Benoit/Angle
5. Brock/Angle

Honorable mention: Orton/Christian, Bret/Owen, Cena/Punk


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> What pairing that had the best chemistry is your top 5? Mine would be
> 
> 1. HBK/Taker
> 2. HBK/Jericho
> ...


Taker vs HBK
Eddie vs Rey Mysterio
Foley vs Triple H
The Rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin
Flair vs Steamboat

Honorable mention: Hennig vs Hart, Bret vs Owen, HBK vs Razor, Benoit vs Angle, Punk vs Cena, Brock vs Angle


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

SJC94 is probably my favorite wrestling event of all time. Chock-full of goodness.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Benoit and Mysterio are in my queue today. Any recs of gems would be nice.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best WWE pairings:

Taker/HBK
Jericho/HBK
Punk/Cena
Eddie/Mysterio
Undertaker/Angle

EDIT: How dare I forget Bret/Austin? Move that to #2 and shift everything down one.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™;22630417 said:


> Benoit and Mysterio are in my queue today. Any recs of gems would be nice.


Watch Mysterio vs Psychosis at The Great American Bash 1996. Really great match. One of my favorites. Also give a watch to Mysterio vs Jericho at The Bash 2009 if you haven't seen it yet. The story-telling in that match is incredible. 

As for Benoit, his match with Matt Hardy from Smackdown 7/17/03 along with Benoit vs Finaly from Judgement Day 2006. Good gems.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If anyone has not seen the 1997 WWF Timeline with Jim Cornette, get on that shit:






(Ignore the title, it is the Timeline lol)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The 1997 WWF Timeline with Jim Cornette shoot is awesome. His Kevin Dunn impression is hilarious along with him making fun of Nash's move-set. It has nothing on his YouShoot though.

I want to give the 2006 Timeline with Finlay a watch. Should be an interesting shoot.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Damn, thanks for posting. The title threw me off big time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ratingz for Bryan/Barrett?


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> Ratingz for Bryan/Barrett?




My last watch was almost a year ago and I had it at ***3/4 . Prolly Barretts best match. Either with Bryan or Cena @ HIAC


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

**** for Barret vs Bryan.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Just goes to show you that Bryan could wrestle a broom and still make it look good.

Not much of a difference in wrestling ability between Wade Barrett and broom.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

oH AND ***1/4 for Bryan/Barret from this weeks SD. Could have been better without Vince interference


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alim said:


> Just goes to show you that Bryan could wrestle a broom and still make it look good.
> 
> *Not much of a difference in wrestling ability between Wade Barrett and broom.*


Huh...

I don't really agree. Watch this one.

Barrett is underrated beyond belief tbh.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

ATF said:


> Huh...
> 
> I don't really agree. Watch this one.
> 
> Barrett is underrated beyond belief tbh.


I refuse to watch anything involving Nexus. That shit was awful and made me stop watching wrestling for a year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Barrett SS ******
Smackdown 2011 match *****
Recent Smackdown ****1/2*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Bryan gets ***1/2 from me. Probably would've been higher if not for the overbooked stuff at the end, but even then I think they handled that about as well as they could.

On Bryan/Barrett:

SS 2011- ***3/4
SD 2011- ***1/4
SD 8/9/13- ***
Raw 8/12/13- **1/2
SD 8/16/13: ***1/2

Not to mention, I think the interaction they had in the Elimination Chamber WHC Match 2012 was ****+ material. I know Bryan can get a good match out of anybody, but he and Barrett have some serious chemistry that Bryan doesn't have with say... Randy Orton, who's obviously a better in-ring worker than Barrett.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alim said:


> I refuse to watch anything involving Nexus. That shit was awful and made me stop watching wrestling for a year.


Believe me bro, you should give it a try. Great match.

I mean, Eddie/Rey in 05 also had the whole Dominick stuff, anyway.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Brye I watched Punk vs Cabana. _(unless I told you already?)_ It was exactly how I remembered. Lighthearted and far from an epic, but plenty memorable for it being Punk's legit "final" ROH match. The Unscripted II tag match made sure he really left on a high match quality note. :mark:


(Y)

It's the kind of match that on a normal night, would be meh, but because of the circumstances it's so enjoyable. The promo after the Unscripted II match is so awesome. :lmao


----------



## hhhfan474 (Nov 7, 2006)

The trailer has just been released for the new Triple H dvd...






Seriously can't wait. It's going to be awesome.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Srdjan99 said:


> oH AND ***1/4 for Bryan/Barret from this weeks SD. Could have been better without Vince interference




Imo, the interference and shenanigans is what made the match so great.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alim said:


> Just goes to show you that Bryan could wrestle a broom and still make it look good.
> 
> Not much of a difference in wrestling ability between Wade Barrett and broom.


Careful, last time a wrestler talked about wrestling a broom there was about 45 threads made claiming he buried everyone. :argh:

Goddamn Triple H, that was a long week.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ratings for Summerslam 1997:

HHH vs Mankind = ***1/2
Goldust vs Pillman = **
L.O.D vs The Godwins = *1/2
Ken Shamrock vs Bulldog = **
D.O.A vs Los Boricus = *
Austin vs Owen Hart = ***1/2
Bret Hart vs Undertaker = ****

Nothing's changed from my previous watch on this Summerslam. HHH and Mankind was a very good cage match but the ending still doesn't make sense. Chyna goes in the cage to check on HHH, goes out again and then goes back in to help Hunter escape. She looked confused. Pillman/Goldust also had a bizarre ending with Pillman having to wait for Marlena to hit him with her purse so that he can finally fall. The two main events were great, very enjoyable. Austin/Hart, bar the ending, was still a great match. Taker and Bret, although a little slow, it have a nice story in it with HBK as the referee whose inexperience showed in the match because he could have costed both men the title but at the end, he helped out Bret Hart lol. Bret must have loved spitting on HBK at the time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forgot Shamrock/Bulldog happened, thought that would have been a tad better.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

hhhfan474 said:


> The trailer has just been released for the new Triple H dvd...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fucking YES :mark::mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

hhhfan474 said:


> The trailer has just been released for the new Triple H dvd...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not gonna lie, I'm pumped for this.


----------



## hhhfan474 (Nov 7, 2006)

Oliver-94 said:


> Ratings for Summerslam 1997:
> 
> HHH vs Mankind = ***1/2
> Goldust vs Pillman = **
> ...


Yeah, Chyna screwed up the finish. It gets talk about in her book I think it was.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Ho-ly, SHIT. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One thing WWE does well, its video production, fucking ace.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Ho-ly, SHIT. :mark:


If this feud doesn't get revisited in the future, then it will be one of the biggest crimes in the history of THIS INDUSTRY :HHH2


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I might be the only one who thinks the Foley/HHH cage match was the MOTN for Summerslam 97 but I loved it. Bret v Taker was good too. I know a lot didn't like it but I enjoyed the hell out of it. 

Best chemistry of all time in my humble opinion.....

Flair/Steamboat (by far I think)
Taker/HBK
Bret Hart/Austin
HHH/Foley
Austin/Rock

A few others.....

Bulldogs/Hart Foundation
Angle/Pegasus Kid 
Flair/Sting
HBK/Jericho
Eddie/Malenko
Eddie/Rey
Bret/Owen
Punk/Cena
Punk/Jeff Hardy
Angle/Brock
Rock/Foley
Vader/Foley


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I an 1000000% not kidding when I say I'd rather see anyone v. a broom than anyone v. Barrett.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Barrett needs to be more of a badass.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I an 1000000% not kidding when I say I'd rather see anyone v. a broom than anyone v. Barrett.


I don't know, Sheamus can sometimes get something acceptable out of Barrett.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Barrett is awful and by far the most overrated guy on here. How anyone thinks he should be pushed to the main event is beyond me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't know, Sheamus can sometimes get something acceptable out of Barrett.


Yeah, I do like the Sheamus/Barretts, but the idea of Sheamus trying to keep a broom upward long enough to pull off an Irish kick (what is that thing again?) sounds way more intriguing.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

hhhfan474 said:


> The trailer has just been released for the new Triple H dvd...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In that picture at 3 seconds in when he's a kid, you could almost see in his eyes he was ready to bury someone.




> Barrett is awful and by far the most overrated guy on here. How anyone thinks he should be pushed to the main event is beyond me.





> I an 1000000% not kidding when I say I'd rather see anyone v. a broom than anyone v. Barrett.


NANANANANANANANANOTLISTENINGTOYOUBARRETTH8TERSNANANANANANANA!


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Jesus. Triple H looked like a fucking mutant when he was a kid. 

The width of his eyes as a child were seemingly replaced by the length nose as an adult.

Looking forward to the doc.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

SPOILERS FOR UPCOMING GAME DVD:



"When I was a kid, I always made sure I was team captain on teams in gym class. Then in order to show how worthless the other kids were, the first person I would pick for my team was myself."

"When eliminated from dodge ball, I was always back in in a second. It's easy to win over stupid kids who luck into catching the dodge ball and earning a player back into the game."

"In capture the flag, the game-plan was simple. I run for the flag and my team covers me. I grab the flag, and run back to our side, and my team covers me, even if they were already jailed. Hey, no foul against me if they break the rules."

"I won the district spelling bee. My final word was 'bury'."

"I was always really nice to the teachers... well, whenever they were looking at me. When they turned around, shovels were thrown!"

"There was this one kid who I absolutely loved to pick on. I mean, I would do everything to make his life miserable. I flicked pencils at him, pulled his chair out from under him whenever he went to sit down, and when I did allow him to sit-down, he sat on a thumb-tack. It was really elementary stuff, but one time I snuck into his house when his parents weren't home and kicked his ass. Hm, you know, come to think of it, he kinda looked like Randy (Orton)."

_-HHH in his upcoming DVD._


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holt shit, this thread has been inactive for almost two hours.

Anyway, the only reason so many IWC members cream their pants whenever they see Barrett is because they always remember his work as the leader of Nexus. That and he's amazing mic worker because he has an accent. It's the same reason why Justin Gabriel can work the stick so well.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

I don't even get why people thought he was good as the leader of Nexus. He's always been so bloody bland, it seems bizarre to me that so many people think he's even 'good', let alone some kind of star who's being held back. Seeing him lose to Bryan the other week in under 4 minutes made me very happy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have no gripes with Barrett. He's worked well vs the people I figured he would. Rather see him over some other hacks, but if he's going to be depushed then so be it. Too bad someone like McIntyre can't be put in his place. In regards to being the Intercontinental Champion or someone who is semi-relevant, etc. Glad Cesaro is still around & has a chance. I think...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just watched Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk OTL'12 to help get myself psyched to see them tomorrow (not that I needed to be much more psyched than I already am).

Anyways, holy hell did this match hold up. In fact, it was even better than I remember it being when I saw it on PPV last year. These two just absolutely crushed it, there wasn't one aspect of this match that I didn't absolutely love. The work rate was phenomenal without compromising the psychology, the crowd was hot for both wrestlers, and all the submissions were really "snug" and well executed(DBry looked like he was about to rip Punks arm, off In the end when he had him in the LeBell lock). I've gotta be honest, I'm almost tempted to give this match the full ***** because it really is that damn good. I think if the build had been a bit better, and they had had that match at say Summerslam or Mania, more people would look at it as a 5 star classic (although to be fair, I've never seen anyone say a negative word about this match, it seems like universally everyone loves it and thinks its great). I really don't see how these two could do much better than this, and to be perfectly frank, I think I might put this as the best PPV match of 2012 (yes even over Cena vs Brock). These two make such great opponents, I'd be stoked if WWE decided to put them on the main event at mania for the WWE title. As it is, I think I officially am excited enough for Summerslam tomorrow to see these two greats.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I prefer mitb 12 tbh

Watching some Sheamus right now, really gonna miss the irish guy. This sd may 12 match he had with Y2J is awesome

OTL is one of those matches thats missing that one thing ala hhh/benoit/hbk from making it the proverbial 5* IMO. I'd comfortably have their mitb, cena/brock, hhh/taker, and 6 man tag from tlc over it from that year


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watched the HBK/Mankind match from an August episode of RAW (1997). Pretty impressive match that had an explosive start with Mankind bringing in the trash can, but only to get hit with it, and HBK performing the flying elbow drop on Mankind laying on the announcer's table.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Bryan from OTL is my pick for fourth best WWE title match of all-time. Love that match so much. Clearly nothing better from 2012.

If you're a GameFAQs user or if you have time to spare, check out this guy's posts:

http://lurkerfaqs.com/users/WWEPropaganda/posts

GOAT gimmick poster. We need someone like this to erase the imbeciles here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I already have some off the top of my head from 2012 I liked more than Punk vs Danielson from OTL and none are Cena vs Brock, either.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Bryan/Punk is such a classic I need to go watch that tonight


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I already have some off the top of my head from 2012 I liked more than Punk vs Danielson from OTL and none are Cena vs Brock, either.


What are they ? and this is not in a snobby way as I agree with you


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I think I liked the 6 man TLC more but yeah both really great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> What are they ? and this is not in a snobby way as I agree with you


Shield vs Hell No & Ryback
Punk vs Henry Post-WM RAW
Punk vs Jericho WM
Punk vs Danielson MITB
Big Show vs Sheamus HIAC

Still like the OTL match though. However my reaction when it was over was how I didn't see it being close to a "5 star" match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Shield vs Hell No & Ryback
> Punk vs Henry Post-WM RAW
> Punk vs Jericho WM
> Punk vs Danielson MITB
> ...


I would have agreed with you until I just rewatched it. I loved it the first time but wouldn't have labeled it a classic match or anything, but after watching it again tonight I just got really really into it, more so even than the match they had at MitB. I just thought it was flawless, the type of match that displays everything I love about wrestling. It was just such a classy match, it reminded me a bit of the match Bret and Owen had at WM10. Some might say that's sacrilege but I don't really care, I believe it's that damn good and I won't be changing my mind anytime soon


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Count me in on the group that doesn't see anything too special in Bryan/Punk. Good match, but not anywhere close to a classic.

Big Show/Sheamus on the other hand :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

SO.

I just got in a terrible car crash and somehow walked away with minor injuries and I want some cream of the crop material to watch right now.

Fucking BADLY too. Mindfucked would be putting it too lightly.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

OTL 2012 Punk/Bryan talk?

Match is a classic. Punk's best match next to Taker this year at Mania, and it's one of those matches where not even shitty build could hold it back. The crowd was white hot for them, and they just went out their and delivered a wrestling clinic, and made something out of nothing. Only thing that comes close for 2012 is the 6-man TLC tag match at TLC. 

And think about it... this is when Bryan was a heel. Imagine how insane a reaction to this match could be now? Hell, we did get a taste of it at MITB this year when the crowd pretty much erupted during their stare-down and made it feel more epic than it probably had any right being. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that leads to unforgettable moments in wrestling.

If Punk/Bryan wrestled at WM30 for the WWE Title, despite the fact they've fought quite a bit in the past, and already had that amazing match at OTL that would be hard to top, I think we could potentially have a truly iconic moment. 

But that's a whole lot of hublbub speculation stuff. But the most recently rumored Mania card (which will probably "change" in a few weeks), which has Taker/Brock, Punk/Bryan for the title, and Cena/HHH, despite Cena/HHH having no business happening at Mania again, would please me.

Edit: Oh shit KOK, hope everyone involved ended up okay. Hope you recover well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk/Bryan does NOTHING for me. I've seen about 5 times and just don't hold it anywhere near 5 stars.

Lesnar/Cena is my WWE MOTY for 2012. Honestly, I'd take Show/Sheamus NOC over Punk/Bryan.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Meh, wouldn't put Sheamus/Show HIAC anywhere near Punk/Bryan OTL (I'd put it above their MITB match though). Sheamus/Show is a great match and I leave it at that, but nothing about it screams "amazing" or deserving of any higher praise than that.

Lesnar/Cena... eh, it's just one of those matches I have to be in the mood to watch. I tried watching it while doing nothing at work within the past couple of weeks and I kinda just zoned out. I mean, when I am in the mood, it's a fucking amazing match, don't get me wrong, but matches like Punk/Bryan, TLC 2012... I can watch pretty much anytime. And even on it's best view, it still wouldn't be put above those matches.

Nice to see Taker/HHH excluded from this discussion, for once.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oh God, don't even get me started on Taker/HHH. Never considered it anything MOTY worthy. Actually, no match from Mania 28 gets higher than ***1/2 from me and that's including Punk/Jericho.

EDIT: No wait, Punk/Jericho gets ***3/4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Punk/Bryan is amazing in it's own way, but everybody and their mother knows by now my adoration for Brock-Cena so we'll leave it at that. If I was doing a top 12 (why 12? I don't know, I just nailed a gigantic moose in my car and I'm quite delusional) matches of 2007 here's what the results would probably look like;

1. Brock Vs Cena (Extreme Rules)
2. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Over the Limit)
3. CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania)
3. HHH Vs Brock (Summerslam)
4. Shield Vs Team Hell No/Ryback (TLC)
5. John Cena Vs CM Punk (Night of Champions)
6. Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules)
7. CM Punk Vs Mark Henry (4/2)
8. CM Punk Vs Mark Henry (4/16)
9. Sheamus Vs Big Show (Hell in a Cell)
10. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (Money in the Bank)
11. Sheamus Vs Dolph Ziggler (No Way Out)
12. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan (1/30)

unk2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok punk/dbryan otl was decent but i stand by my comments earlier, good match but nowhere near 5*, matches off the top of my head better in 2012

punk/dbryan mitb
cena/lesnar
hhh/taker
dbryan/sheamus 
6 man tag
henry/punk raw after wm 28

and there may be a couple raw or sd idk


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

That 6 man tag came out of nowhere and shocking to think that a MOTYC came at the very end of the year. A great start for The Shield That's a match I can watch over and over and never get tired of. Absolute carnage.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not saying Punker vs Danielson isn't great. b/c it is. How anyone could say it isn't is beyond me. I'm just not going to put it as high as some five star classic type bullspit. Hardly a negative. Still would be a top ten 2012 match for me. Probably. Maybe. Idk. It's great and that's that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Watched Austin/Bret WM 13 earlier today. I can throw that match on anytime and I'll never get tired of it. It truly is a work of art and is the best match ever between two of the best ever.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Punk/Bryan is amazing in it's own way, but everybody and their mother knows by now my adoration for Brock-Cena so we'll leave it at that. If I was doing a top 12 (why 12? I don't know, I just nailed a gigantic moose in my car and I'm quite delusional) matches of *2007* here's what the results would probably look like;


you sure you're OK....?

I'd definitely have Cena/Lesnar and Bryan/Sheamus ahead of Bryan/Punk. Dunno about anything else from WWE last year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Punk/Bryan 2/21/12 Smackdown match deserves some respect as well. The multiple finishes nonsense was kinda stupid, but everything else was supreme. Easily Smackdown's best match that year. Come to think of it, when I try to think of the five best television matches from 2012, four of those five involve the same three people punk2, :bryan2, :henry1). Why can't I think of a deserving Sheamus match?

Hopefully Evan is safe from that horrid crash, and he finds the time to review the Finlay/Mysterio stretcher match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Tensai has to be my favorite Smackdown match from last year. Nothing else is coming close.

Well there is Show vs Danielson a few times & Cena vs Del Rio. Those rocked. Oh shoot. Cesaro vs Christian. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I haven't rewatched any of them, but I remember Punk and Sheamus having great tag team matches with each other. Specifically, there was one against Jericho and Bryan in March. Sheamus and Tensai had three matches I remember really enjoying, including the SD match you're talking about. Swagger and Sheamus also had some good matches.

Feed me Finlay matches. I missed so much of his 2006-2009 greatness.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Finlay is a chore to watch. Same can be said for William Regal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd have Sheamus/y2j may 12 better than Bryan/punk tbh


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd have Punk/Bryan OTL over Taker/HBK WM26.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> SO.
> 
> I just got in a terrible car crash and somehow walked away with minor injuries and I want some cream of the crop material to watch right now.
> 
> Fucking BADLY too. Mindfucked would be putting it too lightly.


Shit man, hope all is well for everyone.

Cream of the crop? Well nothing beats HBK/Taker HIAC imho.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Feed me Finlay matches. I missed so much of his 2006-2009 greatness.


WATCH THIS!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can't ever go wrong with Undertaker/Lesnar HIAC. That match resembled a car wreck :brock unk :cliff1 :lelbron


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I haven't rewatched any of them, but I remember Punk and Sheamus having great tag team matches with each other. Specifically, there was one against Jericho and Bryan in March. Sheamus and Tensai had three matches I remember really enjoying, including the SD match you're talking about. Swagger and Sheamus also had some good matches.
> 
> Feed me Finlay matches. I missed so much of his 2006-2009 greatness.


I recall that tag match being fun. When did Sheamus & Swagger lock it up? I only remember their little ones from 2011 & the most recent match this year. All other things I remember is Sheamus squashing him. *looked it up* Happens on a Smackdown following Over The Limit. Didn't see the whole show. That explains it.

Finlay? Watch his matches vs Chuck Palumbo from 2008. Or at least the very first one. Seriously it's some rocking stuff. Didn't like their Belfast Brawl getting next to no time to be anything, but it was fine for four minutes. Of course you can't go wrong with Finlay vs Henry matches too.


----------



## Das Wunderberlyn (Jan 18, 2011)

Triple H v Chris Benoit - No Mercy 2000 - ****

Heel v Heel match although HHH was getting good cheers. I thought it was funny they buried HHH on commentary saying how he's inferior to Benoit when comes to actual wrestling (which is true). HHH trying to outwrestle Benoit was a sight although he did pull of some nice moves like Mutalock and DVD out of Crossface. 

Bad finish good match. Probably the best match these 2 had together. 

i think this was the last PPV of Kreski era, the quality (and maybe the buys) dropped after this. Benoit would saddle with Billy Gunn, Jericho with Kane and Angle with taker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle saddled with Taker? They already feuded previously and in what world was Kurt Angle ever over Undertaker? Especially in 2000.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH was basically face at the time of that Benoit match, since he'd been feuding with Angle before with the whole Steph love triangle thing aswell. Plus, they turned him briefly so when he was finally revealed as the man that orchestrated the running down of Austin it would be a bigger shock. Anyway, I love that match to bits.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rankings of all the Summerslam shit I've watched over the past 2 weeks:

****1/2

Trips/Eugue, SS 04 (DAT DICK GAME)
HBK/Hogan, SS 05 (DAT DICK SHAWN)

***3/4

Rock/Trips/Angle SS 00 (DAT CONCUSSED KURT)

****

Jericho/Benoit SS 00 (DEM CANADIANS)
Angle/Rey SS 02 (DAT REAL AMERICAN MEXICAN)

****1/4

Cena/Batista SS 08 (DAT CLASH OF THE TITANS)
DX/Legacy SS 09 (DAT VETERAN RUB)
Orton/Taker SS 05 (DAT COWBOY BOB)
Punk/Cena SS 11 (DAT KEVIN NASH)
Austin/Angle SS 01 (DAT EPIC AUSTIN PERFORMANCE)
WWE/Nexus SS 10 (DAT SUPERCENA)
Edge/Taker SS 08 (DAT CHOKESLAM FROM HELL)
Rock/Brock SS 02 (DEM HYPE VIDEOS)

****1/2

Orton/Christian SS 11 (DAT RKO)
Orton/Benoit SS 04 (DEM SALMON TRUNKS)
Brock/Angle SS 03 (DAT BORK)
Trips/HBK SS 02 (DAT KIP UP)
Rey/Eddie SS 05 (DAT DOMINIC)
Trips/Brock SS 12 (DAT FUCK DA HATERS I LOVE THIS THING)

****3/4

TLC SS 00 (DAT FUCKING MATCH)*

Got a handful of stuff to watch later too. 

DEM SNOWFLAKES AND DEM DEM'S 8*D


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

DAT DOMINIC :lmao

Might give SummerSlam 2012 a quick watch before tonight, but after watching like 8 NXT matches at Axxess, I might be good on wrestling for now


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The HHH/Eugene match is possibly my favourite Game performance ever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Rankings of all the Summerslam shit I've watched over the past 2 weeks:
> 
> ****1/2
> 
> ...


Ohhhh man for some reason you're "dats" on that list just really cracked me up, that was some funny shit, especially "dat Dominic" :lmao

Anyway, glad to see some appreciation for Jericho vs Benoit 2/3 Falls and the Dominic Ladder Match, both of those are personal gems to me, and I've seen quite a few people shat on them.

I wanna see some good Irish brawling, and I feel likeI have not watched nearly enough Sheamus. Can someone give me a list of the Top 3-5 Sheamus matches they have ever seen so I can check them out?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

TOO MANY DATS AND DEMS 8*D

Seamus/Morrison Ladder Match Raw 10?
Seamus/Show HIAC 12
Seamus/Bryan ER 12


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> TOO MANY DATS AND DEMS 8*D
> 
> Seamus/Morrison Ladder Match Raw 10?
> Seamus/Show HIAC 12
> Seamus/Bryan ER 12


Thanks man, I've seen the Ladder match with JoMo and thought it was absolutely stellar, I will have to check the other two out thanks


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Watching the WWE 2K14 sympossium (with JR, Austin, Flair, Bryan, Foley, Heyman, Rey, & Ziggler), they were talking about Wrestlemania moments. It got me thinking: does anyone have a better "collection" of WM moments than ol' Stone Cold (outside of The Streak)? 

Hart and double-turn @ 13 
HBK, Tyson and the title @ 14
The Rock and the start of the greatest Mania rivarly @ 15
The Rock, the title, and the McMahon turn @ 17
The Rock and his final match @19


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You mean you haven't seen Sheamus/Bryan? Goodness gracious it may even challenge your assessment of Punk/Bryan.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Sheamus is awesome the first fall. The last two falls can go to hell.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Duke Silver said:


> Watching the WWE 2K14 sympossium (with JR, Austin, Flair, Bryan, Foley, Heyman, Rey, & Ziggler), they were talking about Wrestlemania moments. It got me thinking: does anyone have a better "collection" of WM moments than ol' Stone Cold (outside of The Streak)?
> 
> Hart and double-turn @ 13
> HBK, Tyson and the title @ 14
> ...


If they swapped SCSA and Dbryan out and put HBK and Cm Punk in, all my all-time favorites would be on the panel, great listen, Natich being Naitch :lmao



The Sandrone said:


> Bryan/Sheamus is awesome the first fall. The last two falls can go to hell.


I actually have the same exact feeling, I watched this along with dbryan/punk otl last night


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I forgot how awesome that Cena/Del Rio SD match was. 

I gotta gotta get on that Sheamus/Tensai though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> I forgot how awesome that Cena/Del Rio SD match was.
> 
> *I gotta gotta get on that Sheamus/Tensai though.*


Sheamus/Tensai on Raw is A-class. And SD ain't shabby either.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Last night I kicked back and watched some great matches, no reviews or anything, and it made me realize how much I really love this shit and how excited I am for Summerslam tonight. Punk/Brock (MY DREAM MATCH) & Cena/Bryan, with Del Rio/Christian and Shield/HenrySHOW has the makings to be a great show if the matches are given time.

Checking out a whole bunch of Summerslam matches tonight (but I'm in the mood for some SHIELD TV Bouts as I wanna make a case for Seth Rollins as WWE WOTY so who knows). CAN'T WAIT.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Just watched Bryan/Barrett from SD in the No DQ match. Not going to lie, that shit was so much fun. The match itself wasn't anything special really, it was good, but then all the shenanigans started and it ruled. The closest thing to that Attitude Era style I can remember seeing for a long time. Bryan being the guy going up against Vince with the crowd fully behind him is so awesome to see and I will mark out for Bryan no matter how long I see him main eventing WWE because it will always feel surreal to me in the best way possible. Like, am I dreaming?

Fuck, Summerslam needs to be on right now. After this I really don't know what's happening. Obviously some shit is going to go down, and if it's as good as this stuff on SD then I probably won't mind it. It feels far too obvious that Orton is going to cash in, why would he just keep saying he's going to cash in after the match? Or maybe WWE is double bluffing and they're trying to make it seem so obvious so that we think it won't happen but then they actually do it and it'll be lame as hell.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean...

What if Orton cashes in and LOSES.

There's ZERO fucking way they have Orton win the belt tonight, it's far too obvious.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Duke Silver said:


> Watching the WWE 2K14 sympossium (with JR, Austin, Flair, Bryan, Foley, Heyman, Rey, & Ziggler), they were talking about Wrestlemania moments. It got me thinking: does anyone have a better "collection" of WM moments than ol' Stone Cold (outside of The Streak)?
> 
> Hart and double-turn @ 13
> HBK, Tyson and the title @ 14
> ...


Hogan slamming Andre @ 3
Mega Powers Colliding @ 5
The Ultimate Challenge @ 6
Hogan and Warrior (return) taking out the baddies @ 8
Hogan In The Bank @ 9 :hogan2
Icon vs. Icon @ 18

I'm hyped for SummerSlam tonight even if I will not be at home to watch it. Will have to avoid the forum and catch the show tomorrow. I really don't want to be spoiled on the two main events. 

btw, WWE has put up quite a few good-great past SummerSlam matches on their YouTube channel. If you want to kill time before the PPV check some of those out. They have Punk/Cena (2011), Orton/Christian (2011), Harts/Brainbusters (1989), Angle/Lesnar (2003), and a few others.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

WWE loves to double-bluff so I don't think we'll see an Orton cash in tonight. Although I love Bryan and don't really care for Orton, the idea of Bryan winning, HHH holding his hand up before hitting the Pedigree and then Orton cashing in, and thus forming some sort of new corporation is very appealing. Anything for HEEL TRIPS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone NEEDS to watch that wwe 2k14 panel, really has nothing to do with the game itself, HONESTLY I havent laughed that hard I a long long time, best hour and 15 mins ever, I truly adore Naitch :flair I really really do, coolest man on the face of the earth


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Everyone NEEDS to watch that wwe 2k14 panel, really has nothing to do with the game itself, HONESTLY I havent laughed that hard I a long long time, best hour and 15 mins ever, I truly adore Naitch :flair I really really do, coolest man on the face of the earth


:lmao JR was drunk or high as fuck. Mick sligthly lost it as well and Flair being Flair. 

Indeed great stuff.

http://en.twitch.tv/2k/c/2769500



AlienBountyHunter said:


> WWE loves to double-bluff so I don't think we'll see an Orton cash in tonight.


Wouldn't a double bluff mean he's actually cashing it in tonight?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I doubt WWE are going to go against Orton's cash in victory just because it's predictable. I mean it was just this year where we saw the most predictable Wrestlemania build up ever. Plus if the rumours are true (that Cena is taking time off and Bryan is set to feud with Orton) then I do expect a cash in tonight. Having said that, I think he will attempt to cash in but will fail.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

SonoShion said:


> Wouldn't a double bluff mean he's actually cashing it in tonight?


Ah, touché.

ositivity


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I mean...
> 
> What if Orton cashes in and LOSES.
> 
> There's ZERO fucking way they have Orton win the belt tonight, it's far too obvious.


Obvious among the IWC, but the casuals? Not really. 

If Cena's going to be taking time off due to his injury, then it's going to be a Orton/Bryan feud so I can see Orton cashing in tonight. And I hope Orton does too, I don't want Bryan as WWE Champion.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, no.

It's ridiculously obvious amongst the casuals that Orton could cash in tonight.

Didn't RAW or Smackdown end with Orton staring down Bryan or something, and didn't Orton make it ridiculously obvious himself?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Either Orton's cashing in tonight and winning the belt, or he's not. Right now, despite what happened on Raw and SD and what that would normally dictate from WWE, I'm predicting a cash-in after Bryan/Cena with the Orton title win to close the show.

Now what will be interesting is where HHH/Vince falls into all of this? Does he pedigree Bryan as Orton comes out and count the 1-2-3 for Orton's victory? Does Vince keep HHH out of it somehow while Orton just does the normal-ref cash in? That's the part in all this I'm really not sure on. Even if they are planning to have HHH as heel by Mania to face Bryan/Rock/Austin/whoever, there's still 8 months until Mania, and they'd really only need two of those for a full on a feud so they don't need to turn HHH yet if they are.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

There needs to be a big heel turn tonight.... I mean look at the faces wwe has now:

Cena
Bryan
Punk
Orton
Henry
HHH
Ziggler
Kane
Christian


I mean look at all that talent? There definitely needs to be a turn tonight or very soon.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton's where I'd put my money in on turning heel, with an outside chance HHH turns along with him. Only problem with that is HHH's heel turn would completely overshadow Orton's, which is why I'm not too sure what HHH is doing tonight. If he turns heel later they don't run into that problem, but on the same night? I mean, it COULD work out just fine because Orton's winning the belt, but they run that risk of having Orton's heel turn coming off flat in comparison to HHH's.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I wouldn't be surprised if they saved Orton's cash-in the following Monday ala Miz in 2010 seeing as it's way too obvious but I expect some shenanigans to happen tonight so we'll see.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton better leave with the title. They left him off the card for no fucking reason so he better cash in and do it successfully. I'm so paranoid about it that I almost don't wanna watch the show live. No interest in the possibility of Punk beating Brock or Orton failing to cash in successfully.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The only thing I'm a bit iffy on in terms of a HHH heel turn is where Vince will stand. I mean, if HHH nails Bryan with a pedigree leading to an Orton cash in, or screws Bryan for Cena to retain, surely that would lead to Vince being the face in the Game/Vince feud. But why would Vince be the face if he was the one doubting and plotting against Bryan in the first place, unless Triple H and Vince form an alliance?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm confident that :bryan2 will beat :cena2 by reversing the AA into a small package. :HHH2 then raises :dazzler's hand and leaves, thus not turning heel a la Summerslam 2011. THEN, rton cashes in and punts both :cena3 and :bryan, finally turning heel after years of torture. Afterwards, unk5 and :brock will put on the undisputed MOTY.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Punk/Lesnar will probably have a last minute stipulation added. I can't see the two having a straight up wrestling match. Unless we see a ridiculous ref bump that makes the referee stay down for like 20 minutes like HHH/Taker WM 17


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton better leave with the title. They left him off the card for no fucking reason so he better cash in and do it successfully. I'm so paranoid about it that I almost don't wanna watch the show live. No interest in the possibility of Punk beating Brock or Orton failing to cash in successfully.




highly doubt Punk goes over Brock. They need to build lesnar up for WM.

Match rating, winners and match order predictions: 

1.Kane/Wyatt *** (fire and shit will get the crowd really into this one) Wyatt gets the win and takes Kane out writing him off TV

2. Sandow/Rhodes **3/4 Rhodes wins unfortunately

3. Christian/Del Rio ***3/4 this should be a solid match I'm going with Christian here. 

4. Brock/Punk ****1/2. Could be MOTN and I fully expect Brock to get the w here. But make punk look good almost pulling off the upset.

5. Ziggler/Kaitlyn vs Big E/Aj. ** meh not interested this will calm the crowd down. Ziggler wins. 

6. Cena/Bryan ****1/2 +. Bryan wins to a huge pop, HHH pedigrees him after, Orton comes out and wins the wwe championship. 

For the pre show RVD/Ambrose will be fun ***1/4. .. Should be on the card. Ambrose retains.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Eh, I don't really think Punk/Lesnar really needs a stipulation added. The match will be great without one either way.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> highly doubt Punk goes over Brock. They need to build lesnar up for WM.


Don't underestimate their stupidity. I feel better now because Punk had the upper-hand in the go home show but still, they are capable of dumb booking at any time, any place.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian should be a damn fine match. With the attention going to Cena vs. Bryan and Punk vs. Lesnar, this match could be overlooked but it should be a good showing. Their matches back in 2011 were great so I expect nothing different.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

C2D, if Punk/Lesnar goes on last are you literally turning off the TV and not watching the match like you said before? If so, why not at least give it a chance? Even if you do hate Punk. Not sure on your views on Lesnar.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton better leave with the title. They left him off the card for no fucking reason so he better cash in and do it successfully. I'm so paranoid about it that I almost don't wanna watch the show live. No interest in the possibility of Punk beating Brock or Orton failing to cash in successfully.


If Orton fails to cash-in, will you have a meltdown like this?:






:lmao

The vid never gets old. I always lose it when he kicks the stacks of DVDs. :lol



> C2D, if Punk/Lesnar goes on last are you literally turning off the TV and not watching the match like you said before? If so, why not at least give it a chance? Even if you do hate Punk.


You just answered it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eh, it's fine if he chooses not to watch a Punk main event. After all, we do disrespect Randall Viper All-Star.

Finlay/Benoit from November 2006 was freaking awesome. I watched it once before, but I barely remembered anything from that watch and I always panned it in favor of their other two matches that year. This most recent watch blew me away. Benoit's cut on his rib was nasty. The first five minutes also felt like nonstop action that you would expect in the climax of a match. What an awesome match. FINLAY!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Glad you enjoyed it. I like it more than their 5/5/06 match but not Judgment Day.



AlienBountyHunter said:


> C2D, if Punk/Lesnar goes on last are you literally turning off the TV and not watching the match like you said before? If so, why not at least give it a chance? Even if you do hate Punk. Not sure on your views on Lesnar.


Lesnar is one of my favorites so either way, I'm excited to see him in action. And no, I don't think I'll turn it off, specially since I expect Bryan/Cena to close the show. But what I said last was that if it main events, I'll turn it off and read the result next day, if Lesnar wins, I'll watch it completely relaxed and enjoy it. If not, well, I'll just boycott its existence. But it's a win/win situation however it goes. If Lesnar wins... the right thing was done. If Punk wins, the feud is over and done with unless they give Lesnar the last laugh in a rematch which I'm more fine with than the reverse happening.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Yeah it's fine, I wasn't having a go or anything. I was just wondering why he might choose not to watch a match that has a big chance of being great. He liked the Punk/taker match iirc.



Choke2Death said:


> Lesnar is one of my favorites so either way, I'm excited to see him in action. And no, I don't think I'll turn it off, specially since I expect Bryan/Cena to close the show. But what I said last was that if it main events, I'll turn it off and read the result next day, if Lesnar wins, I'll watch it completely relaxed and enjoy it. If not, well, I'll just boycott its existence. But it's a win/win situation however it goes. If Lesnar wins... the right thing was done. If Punk wins, the feud is over and done with unless they give Lesnar the last laugh in a rematch which I'm more fine with than the reverse happening.


Ah right, I probably didn't get the gist of what you meant last time you mentioned something about it. (Y)


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Match order and time estimate prediction:

Pre-Show:
1. RVD/Ambrose - *12 minutes* 
Winner: *No Contest* (Shield interfere, Show/Henry even the odds, 6 man tag for all the gold during the actual show)

2. Rhodes/Sandow - *9 minutes*
Winner: *Rhodes*

3. Ziggler and Kaitlyn/Big E and AJ - *7 minutes*
Winner: *Ziggler and Kaitlyn*

4. Wyatt vs. Kane - *10 minutes*
Winner: *Wyatt* (Kane gets written off to film his new movie)

5. Shield vs. RVD, Henry, Show - *11 minutes*
Winner: *Shield*

6. Christian vs. ADR - *15 minutes*
Winner: *ADR*

7. Lesnar vs. Punk - *25 minutes*
Winner: *Lesnar*

8. Bella vs. Natalya - *4 minutes*
Winner: *Bella*

9. Cena vs. Bryan - *30 minutes*
Winner: *Bryan* (Cena somehow gets injured possibly via HHH heel turn to get written off or Orton)

10. Orton vs. Bryan - *4 minutes*
Winner: *Orton*

*Total time for matches:* 112 minutes. Leaves an hour for entrances, exits, promos, video packages, all that stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The one thing that worries me is what it'll be of Punk and Heyman after SummerSlam. Shield feud maybe for Punkster?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saw some Finlay talk, definitely watch the Smackdown match vs Matt Hardy from 6/22/07. Tremendous match, one of the best Smackdown matches ever broadcast & in contention for MOTY for me although there are a couple of matches I'd have above it.

The November Benoit match is indeed great. Hard to recall which I preferred out of that & the KOTR qualifier in May but both were below the Judgement Day match and also Benoit/Regal from No Mercy '06.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Maybe Bryan/Cena goes half an hour, Orton comes out, and Bryan/Orton go another half an hour. BRYAN FOR DAT LAST HOUR! :bryan


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Saw some Finlay talk, definitely watch the Smackdown match vs Matt Hardy from 6/22/07. Tremendous match, one of the best Smackdown matches ever broadcast & in contention for MOTY for me although there are a couple of matches I'd have above it.
> 
> The November Benoit match is indeed great. Hard to recall which I preferred out of that & the KOTR qualifier in May but both were below the Judgement Day match and also Benoit/Regal from No Mercy '06.


Would definitely watch it, but I don't watch ANY WRESTLING before watching a ppv, kinda tradition

Its pretty stupid to already predict matches let alone **, But one of these bad boys has to deliver


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> Obvious among the IWC, but the casuals? Not really.
> 
> If Cena's going to be taking time off due to his injury, then it's going to be a Orton/Bryan feud so I can see Orton cashing in tonight. And I hope Orton does too, I don't want Bryan as WWE Champion.





The Beast Incarnate said:


> Well, no.
> 
> It's ridiculously obvious amongst the casuals that Orton could cash in tonight.
> 
> Didn't RAW or Smackdown end with Orton staring down Bryan or something, and didn't Orton make it ridiculously obvious himself?


Don't know why IWC members think they're so much more intelligent than regular viewers. The only difference is the casuals don't post on internet forums. I remember when I was 12, I used to discuss wrestling storylines and angles with friends. Well, back then we didn't know the terms angles, face, heel and all that but good guy and bad guy worked just as good. 

If you watch wrestling for, I don't know, probably a year or two, you got this shit figured. Posting on a forum does not make you any smarter. It just means that you take a little bit more time out of your day. Think about, before joining this forum, didn't you already have some knowledge on how pro wrestling works?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Well, no.
> 
> It's ridiculously obvious amongst the casuals that Orton could cash in tonight.
> 
> Didn't RAW or Smackdown end with Orton staring down Bryan or something, and didn't Orton make it ridiculously obvious himself?


If that happened on Smackdown I wouldn't of known, because I haven't watched Smackdown in weeks. But to say there's ZERO chance of Orton cashing-in because it's too obvious is silly imo, WWE booking is obvious most of time and only occasionally to do they surprise us. 

But whatever, we'll see what goes down later on.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> If you watch wrestling for, I don't know, probably a year or two, you got this shit figured. Posting on a forum does not make you any smarter. It just means that you take a little bit more time out of your day. Think about, before joining this forum, didn't you already have some knowledge on how pro wrestling works?


Actually I've been posting on internet message boards for pretty much as long as I've been watching wrestling lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Alim said:


> Actually I've been posting on internet message boards for pretty much as long as I've been watching wrestling lol


There was no internet when I started watching.


----------



## Das Wunderberlyn (Jan 18, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> I forgot how awesome that Cena/Del Rio SD match was.
> 
> I gotta gotta get on that Sheamus/Tensai though.



Del Rio/Cena had good chemistry

i thought their LMS match on the broken ring was pretty kickass and their NOC match was pretty good too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well im watching Angle/Austin (Summerslam 2001) at the moment, its still as fucking awesome as ever, fuck the finish I don't care. I'll probably watch Booker/Rock whilst im at it too.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Might as well join in and do some predictions: 

-Cody Rhodes vs Damien Sandow
Winner: *Cody Rhodes*

- Dolph Ziggler and Kaitlyn vs. Big E and AJ Lee 
Winner: *Dolph Ziggler and Kaitlyn*

- Bray Wyatt vs. Kane
Winner: *Bray Wyatt*

- Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio 
Winner: *Alberto Del Rio*

- Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk 
Winner: *Brock Lesnar*

- Brie Bella vs. Natalya
Winner: *Brie Bella*

John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan
Winner: *Daniel Bryan* ( but I think Orton will cash-in and become the new WWE Champion)

Didn't bother with the pre-show match because I never watch the pre-show, I wish Ambrose/RVD was on the main card. I like Alim's idea of that match going a no contest and setting up RVD/Show/Henry vs. The Shield for all the gold.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was Angle/Austin (Unforgiven 2001) like? Don't remember it.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Solid, but obviously nowhere near as good as their Summerslam match. Good emotional ending though, even if Angle dropped the title back to Austin two weeks later on Raw.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched SS 12 today:

Ziggler/Jericho- ***1/4
Bryan/Kane- ***1/4
Rey/Miz- **1/2
Sheamus/del Rio- **
PTP/Kofi&Truth- *
Cena/Punk/Show- **3/4
Lesnar/HHH- ***3/4

Overall: An ok show, with a lot of ok matches, only the main-event being a match to remmeber


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

opener was much better than the main event but again was just ok


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rewatched SS 12 today:
> 
> Ziggler/Jericho- ***1/4
> Bryan/Kane- ***1/4
> ...




I watched last night not bad, but for summerslam it was just average: 

Ziggler/Jericho ***1/2
Bryan/Kane ***1/4
Rey/Miz ***
Sheamus/Del Rio **3/4
Cena/Punk/Show **3/4
Lesnar/HHH ****


Triple threat was very disappointing IMO.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I remember giving a ***3/4 rating to their RAW match after SS


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock/Booker T (Summerslam 2001) ***1/2

Quite enjoyed this, really good build up video too, and the match was alright.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I actually really enjoyed Rock/Booker T as well. I'm not one of those Rock haters though. I enjoyed me some Rocky. 

Watching Summerslam 2002. As always fantastic show that does not get old. That RVD/ Pegasus match was awesome. HBK/Trips now....classic match and fantastic babyface performance from Shawn. 

Watched Summerslam 1992 a few days ago. Bret v Davey never gets old and Savage v Warrior is underrated. Not as good as WM7 or their cages matches before mania but good nonetheless. 

I think Bryan wins tonight and Orton cashes in and turns heel either tomorrow night on RAW or maybe after Bryan's defense at Night of Champions. I don't see a long title run for Bryan yet. I'd love to see it but I just don't think they will go that way yet. 

I keep reading Cena is taking time off (like a month) after tonight so who does Bryan (if he wins the title and Orton does not cash in) face at Noc? Maybe HHH calls him out tomorrow as asks for a title shot? Bryan retains at NoC over HHH and HHH beats him up after the match (turning heel) and then Orton comes out and punts him and cashes in (turning heel)

I totally agree that the rosters are too lopsided right now. There are not enough top heels.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

So the top heel right now is Del Rio??? 

I can think of Shield, Sandow and Wyatts but none of them get the protective booking like Del Rio gets. It's still to early to judge Wyatts right now though.

Edit: Forgot about Paul Heyman


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still get astounded by Mysterio/Angle everytime I see it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> So the top heel right now is Del Rio???
> 
> I can think of Shield, Sandow and Wyatts but none of them get the protective booking like Del Rio gets. It's still to early to judge Wyatts right now though.


Sadly yes. 

I think once the Shield breaks up Ambrose and Reigns will stay heels and be top heels. Just my 2 cents. 

I'd love to see a Bryan/Ambrose feud down the road maybe with a title match at Hell in a Cell but we are probably a long ways from something like that.


----------



## The Cult (Jul 21, 2012)

Just watched Punk/Ryback from HIAC 2012 again, gotta say I love that match for some reason. I think everyone plays their parts well, Punk being the chickenshit heel, Ryback just being a beast. Heyman really adds to the match as well from the outside, from a perspective of enjoyment I've got it at ***1/2.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Orton cashing in successfully today means I give up on current WWE and spend all time I would otherwise invest in it instead playing Conker's Bad Fur Day.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

A little over an hour til pre-show :mark:

I hope Ambrose can relieve himself from Payback. Gotta work his was back up onto the main card. Nah but in all seriousness, this is a smart move by the WWE to get pre-show numbers up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Personally im not a big fan of this pre-show stuff, wish they would just include it on the PPV, esp as its Ambrose/RVD.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I might actually watch this preshow because it's R-V-D!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

In some ways, I'm glad the Divas match is on the main show. Gotta have a toilet break at some point.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

In line with haleysabin and Maple Leaf Muscle :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You guys better get on TV


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

YES chants in line already :lmao


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett - NO DQ match - WWE Smackdown 8/16/13: ***3/4*

Such a FUN match. So many callbacks from the storyline took place in this one. There was some good back and forth action between the two and the dynamic of the match changed when Vince McMahon came out. Vince McMahon's arrival added a lot to this storyline with him taunting Daniel Bryan and Daniel looking straight at him as he was delivering kicks to Barrett. Barrett goes for the school boy to pin Bryan, a callback to what happened on Raw but then Bryan countered it into a Yes Lock. Vince drags the referee out, distracts Bryan long enough for Barrett to execute the Bullhammer, and Brad Maddox comes out to pin but this time a slower count, prompting Bryan to kick out. So many emotions in this match and it culminates with Maddox being taken out and Vince assuming the referee's role, but Triple H interrupts him and comes out with his ref gear. Bryan goes for the diving headbutt and Triple H does the count and Bryan picks up the win, sticking it to Vince McMahon. This match was overbooked in a good way and it adds a lot of hype and emotion to this storyline and the match at Summerslam. SO HYPED FOR CENA/BRYAN!!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Watched RVD vs Benoit from Summerslam 02 just to kill time. Awesome match. Nice back and fourth along with Benoit working RVD's left arm to set up for the Crossface throughout the match. The crowd was a bit dead until the second half of it but meh, it still didn't take anything away from the match. I'd rate it ★★★★.

I'm pumped for tonight's PPV. Haven't been this excited for a PPV in a long time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Orton cashing in successfully today means I give up on current WWE and spend all time I would otherwise invest in it instead playing Conker's Bad Fur Day.


I'd love to see Trips turn heel and screw d bry, but DBry wins anyway and orton immediately tries to cash in but is unsuccessful, leading to Orton chasing Bryan for the title at NoC, with Bryan going over again. Bryan has earned a nice title reign, I sincerely hope he gets it. But we could be looking at a case of Tommy Dreamer where WWE thinks its best to keep DBry the lovable loser who can't win the big one, which would be Bryan going over Cena to just lose to Orton in 3 minutes and have Bryan chase orton for the title at NoC


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WHAT HBK on the panel :mark: is this real


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

LESNAR VS PUNK IS NOW NO DQ.

:mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I knew it. I knew punk vs Lesnar would be a no DQ, this match just got 10 times better !!! :mark: :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> LESNAR VS PUNK IS NOW NO DQ.
> 
> :mark:


Jerk, you beat me by 10 seconds


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> LESNAR VS PUNK IS NOW NO DQ.
> 
> :mark:


I was kind of expected that. Every match Lesnar's had since returning has been NO DQ.. And with all their brawls leading into the PPV that they had, a NO DQ stipulation is fitting.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Was hoping it'd be a standard match tbh. Love Brock but I'm itching to see him work a regular match again


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Last minute predictions:

Dolph and Kaitlyn to win.
Cody to win
Shield to win all the title matches (I think I'm late for this one but this was my prediction before anyways).
Divas match > IDGAF
Bray to win
Del Rio to win
Lesnar to win 
Bryan to win and then an Orton cash in happens


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Pretty lame finish.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Talk about buzzkill.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow that was a borderline dud. Buzzkill


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That disappointed me. The fire was there to prevent the other members from interfering yet they still manage to find a way to get involved? Defeats the purpose of the stipulation really.

Anyway, at least Bray won.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Would it kill the wrestlers to hit the turn buckles with some force? I swear I'm so sick of watching wrestlers gingerly run across the ring and lightly bump the turnbuckles. They all need to watch a healthy dose of Bret hart matches and see how to do it, itll add some credibility or believability to their matches. It's awful and it needs to stop. Am I the only one who is bothered by wrestlers who don't hit the ropes and turnbuckles hard off of Irish whips?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I would just like to pause and say, Paul Heyman is fucking tremendous. I hope he never leaves the WWE again, he adds so much to the show and is just a brilliant PREFORMER. Love the guy. Ok back to Mr. Sandow. Fuck yes


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's more like it. 

**3/4 rating for the Rhodes/Sandow Match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ratings so far:

Bray Wyatt vs Kane- ★
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes- ★★★
Christian vs Alberto Del Rio- ★★1/4

Rhodes vs Sandow is match of the night so far for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Meh, I was expecting a lot more from ADR and Christian, but it wasn't bad or anything. I think Sandow vs Rhodes was better personally. Hopefully Brock vs Punk and Cena vs Bryan or 4star plus and can save the card.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

So far:
Wyatt/Kane ~ **1/4
Rhodes/Sandow ~ ***
Del Rio/Christian ~ ***3/4

Didn't expect the WHC match to be mediocre but the quality still surprised me a bit. Pretty sexy finish too. Not really an ADR fan but he's on a nice little streak of PPV matches.

So hyped for dat double main event. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Ambrose is so fucking overrated. I'm tired of pretending he might be in Rollins and Reigns' league because he clearly isn't. Worthless match, worthless performance, the worst strike battles you will see in WWE all year and why the fuck were they chanting 'this is awesome'!? I actually want Ambrose to go away.

Fire match was worthless too. Wyatt should stay out of the ring because he's a very good out-of-match character and seemingly still hasn't improved his work since being Husky Harris. I wasn't excited for this to begin with since I don't see why good character always = good wrestler 9and I was for whatever reasons surprised that people wanted to see this), Kane is pretty much always mediocre and the stipulation was stupid. I like how the lights went dark for the Wyatts exit and the crowd went nuts for a millisecond b/c they thought it was Taker.

Rhodes/Sandow was fine, but Cody didn't seem, like, hateful enough. He had some angry facial but needs more emotion for me to give a shit. It almost looked like we was wrestling just any match.

Christian/Del Rio started out OK but ended up on a much higher note. Glad Christian got to sell the arm. I want to watch this again sometime.

Why is WWE 2k14 TFor Teen? Why are their games more maturely rated than the TV?

Also fuck the Miz. I almost hate that phony asshole more than ever right now.

LMAAAO TOTAL DIVAS.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TLK AND CODY YOU BETTER HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THE JBL CHANT


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ambrose is so fucking overrated. I'm tired of pretending he might be in Rollins and Reigns' league because he clearly isn't. Worthless match, worthless performance, the worst strike battles you will see in WWE all year and why the fuck were they chanting 'this is awesome'!? I actually want Ambrose to go away.
> 
> Fire match was worthless too. Wyatt should stay out of the ring because he's a very good out-of-match character and seemingly still hasn't improved his work since being Husky Harris. I wasn't excited for this to begin with since I don't see why good character always = good wrestler 9and I was for whatever reasons surprised that people wanted to see this), Kane is pretty much always mediocre and the stipulation was stupid. I like how the lights went dark for the Wyatts exit and the crowd went nuts for a millisecond b/c they thought it was Taker.
> 
> ...


Agree with all your points so far

TLK and Cody better pop like mad men for Ziggler


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brock and Punk is next


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ambrose is so fucking overrated. I'm tired of pretending he might be in Rollins and Reigns' league because he clearly isn't. Worthless match, worthless performance, the worst strike battles you will see in WWE all year and why the fuck were they chanting 'this is awesome'!? I actually want Ambrose to go away.
> 
> Fire match was worthless too. Wyatt should stay out of the ring because he's a very good out-of-match character and seemingly still hasn't improved his work since being Husky Harris. I wasn't excited for this to begin with since I don't see why good character always = good wrestler 9and I was for whatever reasons surprised that people wanted to see this), Kane is pretty much always mediocre and the stipulation was stupid. I like how the lights went dark for the Wyatts exit and the crowd went nuts for a millisecond b/c they thought it was Taker.
> 
> ...



Agree 100% man. Pretty disappointed so far. But Fuck that, best vs The Beast is on now, as JR would say, Business just picked up. :mark:


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

FUCK this is just as beautiful as I expected.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

****1/2 for that one. Definitely a classic. Those two Punk counters of the F5 were fucking awesome!

Brock won!!! :brock


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

What a splendid match. Lived up to the hype and then some.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

5 stars?


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

*****1/4.* Very good match, I feel some people will probably overrate it right now though.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Lesnar vs. Punk was great!

Brock's a beast!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow that really lived up to all the hype, it gets ****1/2 from me, awesome awesome match. That f5 DDT counter false finish was ill, and those chair shots from Brock were just lethal. Great booked match, both guys come out looking strong.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

Just short of perfect, still a fucking masterpiece. ****3/4 and WWE MOTY so far for me. Brock and Punk both are just on another fucking level.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

That was amazing.


----------



## Callisto (Aug 9, 2009)

That match took my breathe away. Good god, I need air.










These two men excelled with the classic David/Goliath dynamic. Amazing storytelling magnified by stellar facial expressions, body language, dialogue, and selling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great match and I'm glad BROCK won. Even though I read spoiler guy's word on it and he seems reliable at all times, I still was scared that Brock would actually lose.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brock is such an awesome seller when it comes to being in submission holds. I really thought he was about to tap out to the chokehold and then the anaconda vice.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Right now, Lesnar/Punk was *******, enjoyed it more than Taker/Punk and Ishii/Shibata, which were both ******* for me, will see if it holds after another watch


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm trying to comprehend what I just saw. No doubt I'm on so much of a fucking high that I think it should be ****3/4, which is probably high, but good Lord. Think the Heyman stuff could have been dialed back a little, but given that Punk had been trying to get his hands on Heyman anyways, I'm cool with most of it.

One of the things that just sticks in my mind is how Brock teases tapping out. He's locked in these holds and you just don't expect him to tap out, but they way he teases, you can't help but buy into it. 

That was fucking brilliant. I'll go with ****1/2 for now.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Wow. The HHH matches look so tame between Lesnar V Cena and Lesnar V Punk.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Awesome match between Brock and Punk. Lived up to the hype for sure. ★★★★1/4


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Brock's probably so damn great at looking as if he is gonna tap out because he legitimately know what that feels like lol.

Anyway, ratings thus far:

Wyatt/Kane: DUD
Rhodes/Sandow: ***
Christian/ADR: ***3/4
Punk/Lesnar: ****1/4 MOTYC

Holy crap, did the crowd shit on the Divas. "We want tables!" had be rolling. I also kinda skipped the mixed tag. Then again, it's purpose on the card was to cool the crowd down anyway. And the backstage fuckery continues. What are they doing with Fandango. Wasn't too long ago the guy was OVER.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That was MotY for me, so far atleast. Lets see what Cena and Danielson have to offer, I could definitely see them topping it but we shall see. I'm amazed the crowd isn't more dead right now for this mixed tag.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Main event time :mark:

It's gonna be hard for Bryan/Cena to out-do Punk/lesnar for me. I'm still burned out from it lol.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Wow. The HHH matches look so tame between Lesnar V Cena and Lesnar V Punk.


Exactly! Both Cena/Brock and Punk/Brock had Brock beasting and feasting out there but the HHH matches were just pretty even and boring to me.


----------



## Jof (Nov 29, 2012)

Fuck that was a phenomenal match. ****1/2 Lesnar's best so far imo.





The Cynical Miracle said:


> Wow. The HHH matches look so tame between Lesnar V Cena and Lesnar V Punk.


No shit. A 43 yr old semi-retired wrestler isn't going to outperform two guys in the prime of their careers. You could put the rock or undertaker in his spot and you would get the same results.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I forgot to mention something. I did not know Big E was so damn athletic!


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

LET'S GOOOOOOOOO

CENA/BRYAN


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow. What did I just see? Could that have possibly just topped Punk vs Lesnar? I need to rewatch them both to be 100% certain, but I think that Cena vs Bruan gets ****1/2 and Punk vs Lesnar gets ****1/2. And oh shit Ortons music just hit lets see where this goes. Aaaaand a trips heel turn, just like I expected. Fuck, what a god damn buzz kill. I'm glad orton finally turned heel, but shit I was so happy for Bryan, this sucks. Ugh.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

RANDY ORTON! YOUR NEW WWE CHAMPION! :mark: :mark: :mark:

10 times!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Holy fuck, this was so awesome! :mark:

Brock vs Punk - ★★★★½
Cena vs Bryan - ★★★★
Orton vs Bryan - ★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★★


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

What a fucking match and ending. Superb from Cena and Bryan. Better than Punk/Lesnar for me - *****1/2*. And then the shocking ending (which was kinda expected but still awesome). HEEL TRIPS, PEOPLE.

:jpl


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Omg, that was the most brillaint piece of booking WWE has done since probably Punk/Cena. 

I don't think anyone saw that coming. Sure, we all had the hunch that orton was cashing hin but did we expect :HHH to become the new :vince5


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Punk and DB completely OWNED this PPV. Punk vs Brock was exactly how it should have gone, and DB vs Cena was surprise booking beyond belief. WWE putting a lot in DB which is amazing.


----------



## Huganomics (Mar 12, 2010)

PUNK/LESNAR ~ ****3/4
CENA/BRYAN ~ ****3/4
EVERY OTHER MATCH EVER ~ WHO GIVES A SHIT

:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Bryan/Cena was pretty good. Can't go higher than ****1/4 just yet. Still can't get over Bryan pinning Cena clean. Even Punk never pinned him that clean. 

So many awesome things happened on this show. Punk/Lesnar had a great match, where the right guy went over. Bryan/Cena put on a good match, Bryan pins Cena clean, gets a hot celebration, Trips makes his long awaited (for me, at least) heel turn. I'm meh on Orton being champ at this moment, but that will likely change.

HEEL TRIPS THOUGH :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Corporate Orton


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

After the match had ended and I got over my surprise at Bryan winning, I kept watching HHH expecting a Pedigree but it didn't come. Then just when I thought the show was over Orton's music hits. Then Orton looks to back away and I again think the show's over. Then BAM! The Game is back doing what he does best - GOATing as a heel. So hyped for Raw tomorrow.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Gave Bryan/Cena *****3/4* on first watch, I probably have never marked harder

It was like seeing my baby boy grow up </3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Final Ratings:

Bray Wyatt vs Kane- DUD

Cody Rhodes vs Damien Sandow- ★★★

Christian vs Alberto Del Rio ★★★¾

CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar- ★★★★½

Daniel Bryan vs John Cena- ★★★★½

PPV of the year for sure. 

Man, that ending was just pure brilliance. If I know the people like I think I do in this thread, hopefully you all could also see and appreciate the brilliance in this. The Summerslam discussion thread is full of marks who just can't accept that they're being worked over. They're trying hard not to be a "mindless puppet" and boo Orton cause they're told do. Either that or they can't understand that they're supposed to be mad. Oh, well good thing I don't go around calling myself smart mark. I'm a fucking mark baby! Fuck Orton and fuck Trips lol.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I mean...
> 
> What if Orton cashes in and LOSES.
> 
> *There's ZERO fucking way they have Orton win the belt tonight, it's far too obvious.*


:lmao

You were saying? 

Brilliant ending to Summerslam. I marked hard for Triple H turning on Bryan, I marked hard for Orton cashing-in. It was so weird, I haven't liked Orton since 2006 but I actually marked out hard for him then, because I thought the swerve was so perfectly done with Triple H and Orton ruining Bryan's ''feel good moment'' and trolling the fans, and because I absolutely didn't want Bryan as WWE Champion.

Aside from that, a good show overall. The two main-events were both great matches, with Punk/Lesnar being the better match imo. I enjoyed Punk/Lesnar so much that it's probably my PPV MOTY currently. Christian/Del Rio was good, Wyatt/Kane was fun and unique match. Only matches I didn't care for were Rhodes/Sandow and the divas match and the mixed tag.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> After the match had ended and I got over my surprise at Bryan winning, I kept watching HHH expecting a Pedigree but it didn't come. Then just when I thought the show was over Orton's music hits. Then Orton looks to back away and I again think the show's over. Then BAM! The Game is back doing what he does best - GOATing as a heel. So hyped for Raw tomorrow.


The minutes passed by and I kept on hoping for a Pedigree. I kind of gave up when confetti was falling but the logo on the bottom of the screen didn't show up so I had this feeling something would happen. When Orton walked away, I totally had my eyes on HHH and for every move, I was hoping it would be a Pedigree. Then BAM, it happened and I lost my mind!

Still can't believe how great this show was!


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Ppv as a whole wasn't that good. Main events as expected ruled.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Triple H doing the Yes taunt after Orton won the belt :lol

And Trips using his King of Kings theme. :mark:

Promise my Trips marking out will come down in a little bit.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Man, just when you think the monkeys in the back can't do anything right anymore they do it 100 times better than your BTB stuff lol.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah it was too obvious alright. :lmao

But seriously, it wasn't THAT obvious. I mean Bryan was celebrating for a few minutes and then the pyro came on so I legit thought it was finished. Then Orton came and then looked to go again so I started to doubt the cash in. What a year it has been for the WWE title. Two of my favourites winning the title from IWC favourites lol.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

That was a phenomenal match and an even better moment.

It was depressing to see Bryan screwed out of the title but talk about perfect execution. Bryan chasing the title, on the hunt for redemption, against a heel corporation, has so much potential.

WWE CHAMPION BRYAN DANIELSON :bryan

Punk/Brock - ****1/2
Bryan/Cena - ****1/2


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Ppv as a whole wasn't that good. Main events as expected ruled


How so? 

Rhodes/Sandow was a nice midcard match and a promising showing from the two. Nice to see MIDCRAD feuds in 2013.

Christian/ADR was good as well, just overshadowed.

And of course, the two main event ruled. What else can you ask for? Oh wait, you were expecting the FILLER Material to be good?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Triple H to give the thumbs down to Orton on Raw.

D2BLE SWERVZ!

Punk V Lesnar was the MOTN (possibly MOTY) but Cena V Bryan was excellent.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This all has to be leading up to the ultimate payoff of bryan winning the title at Mania.

Him getting "screwed" tonight makes Bryan even bigger and gets the crowd even more behind him against heel HHH/Mcmahons and Orton

Fantastic booking and the best PPV of the year every match besides Wyatt/Kane was good. With the two main events being absolutely fantastic


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Probably PPV of the year simply because of the two superb main events. Rhodes/Sandow was an ok match, same with Christian/Del Rio. Nothing of note really though. Weren't The Shield supposed to have a match against Show and Henry?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

What did everyone think of RVD/Ambrose? I tuned in late so didn't see it.

And yes, this is probably PPV of the year thus far. Punk/Brock and Bryan/Cena should seal that for Summerslam.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> How so?
> 
> Rhodes/Sandow was a nice midcard match and a promising showing from the two. Nice to see MIDCRAD feuds in 2013.
> 
> ...


No I wasn't expecting filler to be good but it's still on the show. The other matches were just so so. Main events was all tonight will be about. Overall I don't see it as a great show. Just a ppv with great main events and a memorable ending


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Triple H to give the thumbs down to Orton on Raw.
> 
> D2BLE SWERVZ!


:lmao

Forget about King of kings, he's the King of Swerve.

Btw, does anyone have a feeling that Bryan might show that clip on RAW? Just to show how stupid Orton is for trusting HHH. When it's all said and done, the clip of Orton getting screwed by HHH in '04 will be the most played recap in RAW history. I've lost count how many times they've shwon it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shitty

Well nice to see all the new ppl in this thread tonite, some new faces anyways, great ppv, ppv of the year,del rio/christian and sandow/rhodes were both solid as well just complety overshadowed

Now on first watch

Brock/Punk ****1/2
cena/bryan ****1/4

I have all ready seen five ppl throw 5* at punk/brock :lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> No I wasn't expecting filler to be good but it's still on the show. The other matches were just so so. Main events was all tonight will be about.* Overall I don't see it as a great show. Just a ppv with great main events and a memorable ending
> 
> *
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


If that doesn't find the definition of a great show, I don't know what is.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

RVD/Ambrose was meh. Nothing special at all.

Also - inB4 Batista returns tomorrow night. :side:


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Punk vs. Brock
Cena vs. Bryan
Dat ending


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

People still complaining over the ending. This was done much better than Del Rio's cash in. There is a potentially great faction with Orton, HHH and probably Vince. Fuck it, Bryan is almost like Stone Cold and Orton is like the corporate Rock.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Overall, I thought the PPV was excellent. I thought Kane/Wyatt fucking sucked but it still doesn't hinder the quality of the PPV. It's easily PPV of the year for me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Also - inB4 Batista returns tomorrow night. :side:


Please don't put that thought into my head lol.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Great PPV. OH MY GOD, Triple H just turned heel and Bryan got pedigree'd. And he's now with Orton. 

:mark:

As for the 2 main-events:

Brock/Punk - ****3/4
Cena/Bryan - ****1/4


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> If that doesn't find the definition of a great show, I don't know what is.


There is more to the show than the main events. That's why I said overall. In my eyes if you take into consideration the entire card it. At the most an ok ppv. That's not to say the main events were not good as they were.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm listening to the LAW. Some smark cunt called in to say that he's sick of the recycled storylines in the corporate heel.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Though nothing will ever beat the original Edge cash-in, I think this one was one of the best ever. Because of the magnitude, the overall shock and the heel turn(s). Aswell as it all coming after Bryan beating Cena clean and finally winning his first WWE Title. Such a great ending.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Did anybody cringe extremely hard during that styles clash thingy. Man, that was so close.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

RATINGZ for first view:

Wyatt/Kane- *1/2
Sandow/Rhodes- ***1/4
Christian/Del Rio- ***1/2
Ziggler-Kaitlyn/Big E-AJ- **
Punk/Brock- ****1/2
Bryan/Cena- ****1/4

OMG DA BEST VERS DA BEAST RULED AND GOAT FACE N DA CHAMP RULED! 

Bork's best match since returning, and Cena's best match since, well... Punk at MITB. Great stuff.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Second best Summerslam that I have ever seen. The expectations for the main event were so high, but somehow the guys involved surpassed them.

RVD/Ambrose: Missed
Kane/Wyatt: **1/2*
Cody/Sandow: *****
Christian/ADR: ****3/4*
Punk/Lesnar: *****3/4*
Divas Match: Missed
Mixed Tag: Missed
Cena/Bryan: *****1/2*

Cena/Bryan felt like an awesome clash of the titans affair with a terrific story. Not even gonna elaborate on that ending; all that needs to be said is that it was perfect. That BKK looked nasty. We also finally get a rton :HHH2 turn.

Punk/Lesnar is not a five star match, but it's about as close as you can get. Only SS match I can think that was better was Hart/Perfect. I knew these guys would pull off something epic. Best Lesnar match of his career and Punk's second best WWE match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

On Kane/Wyatt, I will say one positive thing about the match. People have said that Wyatt was made to look weak in this match but I thought the story was told well in this match with Kane getting his revenge on Wyatt by chokeslamming him twice. I mean, it would have been weird if Wyatt controlled the match considering an Inferno match (or Ring of fire) suits Kane very well and it was an advantage to him. It would have been better if Kane performed the high flying clothesline from the top rope to the other members and then it would have let to Bray taking advantage of that situation.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Shitty
> 
> Well nice to see all the new ppl in this thread tonite, some new faces anyways, great ppv, ppv of the year,del rio/christian and sandow/rhodes were both solid as well just complety overshadowed
> 
> ...


What's funny? This match had everything. Amazing storytelling with amazing performance by both men. Punk looked better than ever - and he lost. This is how damn good the match was.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Updated MOTY list so far:

(****3/4)
1) Taker vs. Punk WM29
(****1/2)
2) Punk vs. Lesnar SS 
(****1/4)
3) Bryan vs. Cena SS
4) Shield vs. Bryan, Kane, and Kofi Raw 5/20
5) Sandow vs. Barrett vs. Rhodes vs. Ambrose vs. Fandango vs. Cesaro vs. Swagger MITB
(****)
6) Bryan vs. Cesaro Raw 7/22
7) Ziggler vs. Del Rio Payback
8) Punk vs. Cena Raw 2/25
9) Shield vs. Taker, Bryan, and Kane Raw 4/22
10) Ziggler vs. Cesaro Main Event 7/10

What a fucking year so far!


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Did anybody cringe extremely hard during that styles clash thingy. Man, that was so close.


Sort of, in definitely seemed like it went a bit wrong. Turned out looking really effective though.

STARZ 'n' THOUGHTS:

Wyatt/Kane *3/4** - I'm a big Wyatt fan but I didn't expect this to be any good. It was _very_ poor though, Kane hitting three Chokeslams made Wyatt look particularly weak. Hopefully he can have some TV matches now and win without help against some midcarders.

Sandow/Rhodes ***1/4* - Meh, ok. Not much to say really. This feud should have been bigger than it felt.

Christian/Del Rio ****1/4* - Solid match, though I expected a little more. Awesome selling of the arm by Christian, along with some neat counters throughout. Del Rio was always winning this though. A bit of a small feud for the WHC at the second biggest PPV of the year.

KaitZig/BigAJ **3/4* - I ducked out a bit for this but it didn't seem anything special. Filler match with an obvious and correct winner.

Punk/Lesnar *****1/4* - Simply awesome, though some people throwing 5s at it are overreacting slightly, I feel. Still, great stuff from both men and of course Heyman. Very vicious match that made neither man look weak. 

Bryan/Cena *****1/2* - Fantastic match, I expected big things and these two delivered. They clearly have great chemistry and this was not only a lot of fun but a very well worked match with a great ending, followed by some major shocks after. Main event of the year so far for me, will be in the running for MOTY.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Cena is easily PPV Main Event of the year so far, it's not even close.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's amazing how Lesnar hasn't lost a damn step. The guy came back last year after an eight year hiatus and tore shit up better than anyone else on the roster. Now, one year later he's still tearing shit up. WHY THE FUCK DID HE EVER LEAVE?

@Alien or should i call you Bounty? Or Hunter? Anyway, I think Cena was aiming for a Styles Clash but fucked up. The head drop thingy looked more sick and nasty though. In the end, (botch or not) it looked sick! Still afraid to re-watch the match though because of it. 

Btw, the guys on the LAW said that Cena/Bryan resembled a match from the G1 Climax. That is sort of true. They even mentioned, the Nakamura like kick from Bryan finishing. The reason why it didn't seem so glaring to me is because, imo, the WWE main event style is worked sorta like a puro main event,


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Solid PPV. I was happy as hell Bryan beat Cena clean as a whistle. I dig the HHH and Orton heel turns. Hope Bryan can win it back soon....maybe like Survivor Series time. He has earned a shot to carry the ball for a few months. 

Punk/Brock was great but I'm not marking as much as some. Probably a **** match though it was damn good. I think Bryan/Cena was just as good though. 

Bryan beating Cena cleanly is worth what *** alone?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)




----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> @Alien or should i call you Bounty? Or Hunter? Anyway, I think Cena was aiming for a Styles Clash but fucked up. The head drop thingy looked more sick and nasty though. In the end, (botch or not) it looked sick! Still afraid to re-watch the match though because of it.


Lol, just call me ABH or Taylor. It definitely looked as if he was looking for the Styles Clash, I thought another powerbomb was coming at first, too. 

Also, that Superplex from Bryan when he held onto the top rope was great. Just a fantastic all-round match, legit can't wait to watch it again.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


>


Wonder how bad the elbow really was. Dude gave a lot thou. Still can't believe the clean win. Can't seem to wrap my head around that.

Gif looks like he was about to go for the styles clash. :lol


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> *Btw, the guys on the LAW said that Cena/Bryan resembled a match from the G1 Climax.* That is sort of true. They even mentioned, the Nakamura like kick from Bryan finishing. The reason why it didn't seem so glaring to me is because, imo, the WWE main event style is worked sorta like a puro main event,


So it wasn't just me. I had this thing in the back of my mind that the match seemed very Japan like, and I had watched a bit of the G1 Climax a few days ago.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

I'm not sure now, seeing that gif makes it look like Cena was trying to land on his feet rather than hit a move straight out of that hold. Still could have easily gone wrong though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Gif looks like he was about to go for the styles clash. :lol


 Yeah it does. He redeemed himself well afterwards though. 

Was the clean win anti-climinatic? It felt weird seeing Bryan win a match with a move that he has never used to finish a match before. It was unpredictable but I always thought that tonight was the best chance to make Cena tap out considering he had an injured arm.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I"ll hold off on stars for the other matches and share some thoughts

Wyatt/Kane could have been good, probelm was the gimmick , it took away most of the attention, the ring literally got all the attention and I was focused on that . Not sure how they will book Wyatt from here on out, Kane will prob join the family

My probelm with sandow/Rhodes is it felt so unimportant. Cody didn't show any anger, emotion it just seemed like a superstars match. For all that sandow has put in to the feud for it to feel that unimportant is crazy 

Also I hope Ziggler is done with this crap


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> Yeah it does. He redeemed himself well afterwards though.
> 
> Was the clean win anti-climinatic? It felt weird seeing Bryan win a match with a move that he has never used to finish a match before. It was unpredictable but I always thought that tonight was the best chance to make Cena tap out considering he had an injured arm.


I liked the finish. A problem I have with these big matches is that i am genuinely uninterested in the kick outs. I can call them a mile away. So when i see Bryan do a simple kick to the face, i expect it to do nothing. But damn, swerve 1 of the night came right there.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> Yeah it does. He redeemed himself well afterwards though.
> 
> Was the clean win anti-climinatic? It felt weird seeing Bryan win a match with a move that he has never used to finish a match before. It was unpredictable but I always thought that tonight was the best chance to make Cena tap out considering he had an injured arm.


With the cash-in after, I'm still somewhat expecting (and hoping) that Bryan finally gets his mega win at Mania, probably by making Cena tap out. Whether it'll be a rematch, or a triple threat match with Punk I'm not sure. But something along those lines seems logical. Although they could go with Bryan/HHH, but having Bryan submit Cena in the main event and win the title would be the ultimate way to put him over for good. So hopefully they were saving that, hence why the didn't have use that finish tonight. Cena submitting is such a huge deal that having it at Mania is almost the only choice.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> Yeah it does. He redeemed himself well afterwards though.
> 
> Was the clean win anti-climinatic? It felt weird seeing Bryan win a match with a move that he has never used to finish a match before. It was unpredictable but I always thought that tonight was the best chance to make Cena tap out considering he had an injured arm.


Not really anti climactic imo because of the pop and all. I guess the tap would have been more along the lines of a submission specialist like DB, but Cena ain't tapping atm. But shit just seeing the 3rd count was surreal as fuck considering who took the fall.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I would've preferred the tap out, but hey, a 100% clean win over Cena is a FUCKING HUGE WIN. I'm happy with what we got.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

A more cool finish would be to have Cena kick out and right afterwards Daniel Bryan puts him in the YES Lock.

I'm surprised a huge meltdown didn't start though when bryan won. Simply for the fact that Cena didn't tap. Thought people would have bitched about that. You know, WWE protecting Cena by having him not tap.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

That fail Styles Clash fuck up from Cena looked horrible.

And I'm sure no one really payed attention to this match, but the Brie Bella/Natalya match wasn't bad imo. Got more time than I thought and it went ok, people always harp on about how terrible The Bella Twins are but Brie held her own in that match with Natalya decently.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> A more cool finish would be to have Cena kick out and right afterwards Daniel Bryan puts him in the YES Lock.
> 
> I'm surprised a huge meltdown didn't start though when bryan won. Simply for the fact that Cena didn't tap. Thought people would have bitched about that. You know, WWE protecting Cena by having him not tap.


Bryan won CLEAN. I doubt they gave a shit as long as it was a clean win. I don't even know why people were actually expecting a tap out, it was not happening and will not until Cena makes a character change which may very well be never.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bryan could have won with a sunset flip. The top face rarely loses cleanly. It was refreshing. I'm not like piiiiiissed that Orton cashed in because of the clean win by Bryan. This makes me think Bryan will chase the title and get his big moment and run with strap down the road. I could see Orton beating Bryan at NoC and the main event of Battleground being Bryan/Cena vs HHH/Orton. Maybe Bryan would then win it at Hell in a Cell or something. Fuck I don't know. Bryan is wonderful though and has proven he can be a top guy.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

You guys are right about the finish. A clean win over Cena is still a huge deal, especially from a non-part timer. IMO, this was Cena's first real clean PPV loss since 2008 against HHH. I know some will point to Rock but there was an excuse that Cena got too arrogant that cost him at the end but the Bryan win feels different. The handshake at the end proves that WWE are high on Daniel Bryan.

And people being upset for the non-submission victory are just finding an excuse to complain. It was a good chance for a tap out but it wasn't essential.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Only thing I would've preferred, was Bryan kicking out of the pedigree. It may have been the second finisher, but there was enough time between it and the pin to get Bryan to kick out. It would've really had the fans going before Orton loses his cool, perhaps rapidly gets Bryan up and just as quickly hits the RKO for the 1-2-3.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Only thing I would've preferred, was Bryan kicking out of the pedigree. It may have been the second finisher, but there was enough time between it and the pin to get Bryan to kick out. It would've really had the fans going before Orton loses his cool, perhaps rapidly gets Bryan up and just as quickly hits the RKO for the 1-2-3.


 Don't think Haitch likes people kicking out of his finisher after just going through a near 30 minute match :HHH2


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> Only thing I would've preferred, was Bryan kicking out of the pedigree. It may have been the second finisher, but there was enough time between it and the pin to get Bryan to kick out. It would've really had the fans going before Orton loses his cool, perhaps rapidly gets Bryan up and just as quickly hits the RKO for the 1-2-3.


Yes, I agree 100 percent, don't care that it didn't happen, but really thought it was gonna happen. Would have been even more amazing.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> And people being upset for the non-submission victory are just finding an excuse to complain. It was a good chance for a tap out but it wasn't essential.




This. Some people just need something to bitch about. It's sad really.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't care about the finish he won and clean that all that matters

Where there's mostly good there one bad thing in the wwe right now, I may be overreactioning but it pains me to say this buy I think they are about to or have missed the boat on ziggler


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Where there's mostly good there one bad thing in the wwe right now, I may be overreactioning but it pains me to say this buy I think they are about to or have missed the boat on ziggler


He needs to get back in the title picture for sure.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Don't get me started on Ziggler. It's depressing watching the guy's career over the past three years. He just keeps going up and down and up and down. It's annoying now. 

I mean, the guy went from standing ovation for cashing in MITB, to one of the most sympathetic babyface turns of all time to being put in a filler feud at Summerslam. Christ, last year he was against Jericho! The guy has one roller coaster of a career.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hopefully Ziggler's back in the World Title feud and takes the title from Del Rio asap. Like tomorrow. 

Yeah, it's a dream.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> Hopefully Ziggler's back in the World Title feud and takes the title from Del Rio asap. Like tomorrow.
> 
> Yeah, it's a dream.










Ziggles and Cody would be a nice mix in the near future


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> Don't care about the finish he won and clean that all that matters
> 
> Where there's mostly good there one bad thing in the wwe right now, I may be overreactioning but it pains me to say this buy I think they are about to or have missed the boat on ziggler


Ziggler will be fine. I see him feuding with Sandow later on this year maybe early next year. don't be surprised to see him in the WHC match at WM30.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Triple H doing the Yes taunt after Orton won the belt :lol
> 
> And Trips using his King of Kings theme. :mark:
> 
> Promise my Trips marking out will come down in a little bit.


I think HHH wants to work with Bryan. How can he not? he's amazing. I'm all for a HHH match with Bryan as long as HHH puts him over.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Sandrone said:


> Updated MOTY list so far:
> 
> (****3/4)
> 1) Taker vs. Punk WM29
> ...


Bryan Vs Punk WM 30 WWE title. 60 minute Iron man match. Booked it now. Epic.

I give both Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena 5 stars each. Both awesome matches.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

What do you guys think about HHH turning heel this late in his career?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Summerslam needs to hurry up and finish downloading.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> What do you guys think about HHH turning heel this late in his career?


Maybe he will hold on too long like Flair and wrestle 10 more years? Trips strikes me as a guy who loves being a heel. He is also wonderful at it. Honestly I'm shocked he was a face as long as he was.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> What do you guys think about HHH turning heel this late in his career?


Heel HHH > face HHH at any given point in time.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> What do you guys think about HHH turning heel this late in his career?


Well considering he's going to be around for many years to come and take over the company when McMahon finally passes, it's hardly ''late''.

I approve of this heel turn, face Triple H was stale and now Triple H can potentially be a great corporate boss heel, like Vince was for many years.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Maybe he will hold on too long like Flair and wrestle 10 more years? Trips strikes me as a guy who loves being a heel. He is also wonderful at it. Honestly I'm shocked he was a face as long as he was.


Seems like he can milk it and turn back during a respectable match in the future.

agreed @Nostalgia


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> What do you guys think about HHH turning heel this late in his career?


I don't know, its a weird one. will people boo him?. But a Orton/HHH/Vince vs Bryan is going to be awesome.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Triple H is one of the best heels of all time, and when you consider that in addition to the fact he screwed over the most over guy in the company during his biggest moment in his career, people will boo Triple H.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

hardyorton said:


> I don't know, its a weird one. will people boo him?. But a Orton/HHH/Vince vs Bryan is going to be awesome.


DB being as over as he is, it's quite possible. Of course he will have always have his fans thou. He's just gonna have to heel it up pretty hard.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy fuck, Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena were both insanely good.

Del Rio/Christian was very enjoyable too.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Brye said:


> Holy fuck, Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena were both insanely good.
> 
> Del Rio/Christian was very enjoyable too.


any other PPV this year Del rio/Christian would have been MOTN. But the ME's were just awesome, the reason why you love pro wrestling is to see moments like tonight.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

This generation doesn't know what it's like to boo Triple H, nor do they know what he is capable of as a heel. Remember, he's not been heel in 7 years, when a lot of the current fans were born, or too young to have been watching. He'll get himself booed. 

Hope the King of Kings music stays. Almost fits the heel persona better, I think.





:mark::mark:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

hardyorton said:


> any other PPV this year Del rio/Christian would have been MOTN. But the ME's were just awesome, the reason why you love pro wrestling is to see moments like tonight.


Totally agreed. (Y)



iwatchwrestling said:


> This generation doesn't know what it's like to boo Triple H, nor do they know what he is capable of as a heel. Remember, he's not been heel in 7 years, when a lot of the current fans were born, or too young to have been watching. He'll get himself booed.
> 
> Hope the King of Kings music stays. Almost fits the heel persona better, I think.


They need to have him be a heel that's winning to take some forms of defeat though.


----------



## Moustache (Oct 28, 2008)

Wyatt/Kane - DUD

Sandow/Rhodes - **

Christian/Del Rio - ***1/2

Mixed tag - *1/2 

Brie/Nattie - *1/2

Punk/Lesnar - ****3/4

Bryan/Cena - ****3/4

Initial reaction is that that was one of the most exciting and satisfying double main events WWE has ever featured on a single show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The experience will last a lifetime. Holy shit what a show.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rob Van Dam vs. Dean Ambrose - **3/4
Kane vs. Bray Wyatt - *
Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow - **3/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian - ***3/4
Natalya vs. Brie Bella - didn't watch
Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk - *****
Dolph Ziggler & Kaitlyn vs. Big E Langston & AJ Lee - **
Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena - ****1/2

Initial watch, Lesnar-Punk was the match of the night and match of the year for me, getting a full five stars IMO. That match took me on a roller coaster ride and it just made it clear to me WHY I want to be a professional wrestler and why I'm a fan in the first place. I loved it. Same goes for Bryan-Cena, that was a tremendous match.

I honestly can't wait to see how WWE TV unfolds for the next several months leading to Wrestlemania. This Corporation-Daniel Bryan/John Cena feud (when he returns from surgery) is going to be amazing. I can't wait to see Bryan chase and eventually get the title back from the guy who stole his moment. It's going to be an even bigger and better moment.

Summerslam was the best pay-per-view I can remember watching in a VERY long time.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The experience will last a lifetime. Holy shit what a show.


FULL REVIEW WHEN THE ADRENALINE GOES DOWN, PLZ.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm really excited about the possibilities of a HHH/Bryan match. I've said it before but heel HHH should become WWE Champion before Wrestlemania, Bryan should win the Rumble and then make HHH tap out at WM.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Christian/Del Rio went up on a rewatch. Like somebody said, if this was on any other PPV, it would have been a MOTNC.

Punk/Lesnar has no flaws. I can't find any at all. All that needs to be said about it.

Cody, please tell us all about your experience. Everything.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Christian/Del Rio went up on a rewatch. Like somebody said, if this was on any other PPV, it would have been a MOTNC.
> 
> Punk/Lesnar has* no flaws*. I can't find any at all. All that needs to be said about it.
> 
> Cody, please tell us all about your experience. Everything.


lol, trying telling that to the people in the MOTN thread right now. :lmao

I pretty much agree with you though.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Bryan is a dream match for me. Not sure how they'd transition the title from Orton to Trips though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> FULL REVIEW WHEN THE ADRENALINE GOES DOWN, PLZ.


I'm very drained atm. I'll give one tomorrow or perhaps later if I'm still up. About to watch it over now and see how things translated for those who watched on PPV.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH/Bryan is a dream match for me. Not sure how they'd transition the title from Orton to Trips though.


Have it before Bryan/Orton's last match for WWE title. Bryan beating HHH then beating Orton will make him a legit star.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Bryan for the belt now seems like it couldn't happen. Getting the title from Orton to Trips doesn't seem like they could make sense of it. 

Funnyfaces, they only "flaw" with Punk/Lesnar one could argue is the amount of Heyman involvement. It tied in to the story, so it wasn't just Heyman cheating to help Brock win. Other than that, match is damn sweet.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> The experience will last a lifetime. Holy shit what a show.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> I'm really excited about the possibilities of a HHH/Bryan match. I've said it before but heel HHH should become WWE Champion before Wrestlemania, Bryan should win the Rumble and then make HHH tap out at WM.


Perfect. But I really want to see Bryan beat Orton for the title. HHH goes into the WM30 match and loses. Cements Bryan with his WM moment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I'm very drained atm. I'll give one tomorrow or perhaps later if I'm still up. About to watch it over now and see how things translated for those who watched on PPV.


Awesome~ 



The Lady Killer said:


>


Hope y'all enjoyed it. (Y)


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Trips/Bryan for the belt now seems like it couldn't happen. Getting the title from Orton to Trips doesn't seem like they could make sense of it.
> 
> Funnyfaces, they only "flaw" with Punk/Lesnar one could argue is the amount of Heyman involvement. It tied in to the story, so it wasn't just Heyman cheating to help Brock win. Other than that, match is damn sweet.


As I said before, Bryan goes into WM30 as Champ, beats HHH 1..2..3, Bryan gets his WM moment and is made a legit star. HHH should do it for business and who better to give it to then Bryan, Who's the perfect company man. He won't be getting any strikes or busts.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Gusy where would you rate this Summerslam in the ranks of past efforts?

I think it's best since early 2000's.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Bryan/Cena is a ***** match as far as I'm concerned. It was at least a ****1/2 before the finish. But a clean 1-2-3 win over John Cena? That EASILY bumps it up a 1/2*


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

hardyorton said:


> Gusy where would you rate this Summerslam in the ranks of past efforts?
> 
> I think it's best since early 2000's.


was a big game changer. Best since 2002 would probably be my best bet.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Second best Summerslam of all-time.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I would also like to add that Punk/Lesnar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cena/Lesnar

And Punk/Lesnar is better than all of the HHH/Lesnar matches combined. Seriously, it pisses on any of the Hunter matches


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> was a big game changer. Best since 2002 would probably be my best bet.


I agree the best I've enjoyed in a long long time. The crowd was hot and The ME's produced top top quality.

@funnyfaces1 Wow that high, amazing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It was definitely the best SummerSlam since 2005.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly can't think of any better besides 2002. 1992, 2000, and 2011 round up my top five, but man I loved this.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd maybe put 2011 above this year's. If not, it would probably be the best since 2002.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved Summerslam '11 and '09, although '09 has a trash WWE title match. I'd still rank '13 at least above '09, probably '11 too.

(This is talking recently. The '01 and '02 Summerslams were amazing.)

Now that I of it, '08 Summerslam was pretty cool too.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> I'd maybe put 2011 above this year's. If not, it would probably be the best since 2002.


2011 was indeed hot off the MITB, and the matches were all quality. LOL but the HHH heel turn never happened that year when it seemed MOST likely.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

2002
2013
2011
1997
2000

Are my top 5 Summerslams


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

My top 5 Summerslams: 

2002
2013
2005
2011
2001


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything on this show worked out so well. Glad a PPV finally happened this year where people are actually happy after watching. Even WM left fans polarized on their opinion. SummerSlam does it again. Such a consistent franchise.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Other than 2007, I don't really hate any of the Summerslams I've seen.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Everything on this show worked out so well. Glad a PPV finally happened this year where people are actually happy after watching. Even WM left fans polarized on their opinion. SummerSlam does it again. Such a consistent franchise.


people will always nit pick. It's human nature sadly. I loved Summerlsam 2013, the main events delivered.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I think within the next couple of years we will see Summerslam move out of LA and onto bigger arenas like WM. They are really trying to push it as the second biggest show of the year (which it is) and even more so with Axxess, National Anthem to start the show, big main events, etc.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

After replayed viewings, here my important ratings from Summerslam 2013

Bryan vs. Cena - ****

It didnt click for me live but its a really good match that if it was cleaned up a little, would be one of my favorite this year. Solid work.

Punk vs. Lesnar **** 3/4

I so badly want to give this five stars but I just cant. Not because of Heyman or the result. I just felt like their wasnt a real special moment.

I really hope we a geta rematch. I like Punk in the underdog role.

Kane/Wyatt sucked, fire was more over.
everything else was decent to good. Christian/ Del Rio ***1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

So the power died ten seconds after Lesnar/Punk started and I went out and dd something else. Yeah...the universe didn't want me to watch SummerSlam.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Bryan/Cena : **** 1/4

Lesnar/Punk: **** 3/4 

Christian/Alberto *** 1/2

Didn't care for the rest.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Summerslam now. The Ring of Fire looked cool as shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The last hour of SS sounds bloody fabulous :mark: I'm desperatly trying to get a copy to watch, all along I thought Punk would win, glad Brock did 

What next for Punk now?


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Brock/Punk *****
Cena/Bryan ****1/2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lesnar/Punk was fantastic but I haven't even been thinking about it because of the main event and the post main event which is a shame. I'll revisit it some time this week to let the dust settle but it was awesome and my initial rating would be *****1/2*. Awesome match. 

Bryan/Cena? Fucking hell. I'm not somebody who watches anything outside of WWE so for me this match was very different than anything I've ever seen before and I'll be damned if it didn't have me glued to the screen. Daniel Bryan beat John Cena clean. CLEAN. WITH A KNEE TO THE FACE! Dear God I just can't believe that. Wonderful moment for his victory and then the epic heel turns that followed just brought this thing full circle. Heel Orton has been a long time in coming and it's great but heel Game? 7 YEARS. That's the last time he was heel. I don't think I'm ready for Raw lol. Again, my initial rating for this would be *****1/2*.

I can't forget Christian/Del Rio which was probably the nicest surprise of the night. Another great match at ******.

I really hope all 3 matches hold up upon a second viewing to make this Summerslam one of the best ever. The double main events delivered big time and the WHC was an awesome addition to flesh out the midcard. 

MOTN? Why clearly Orton/Bryan with DAT EVOLUTION HEEL TURN - ********************************


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Platt said:


> Brock/Punk *****
> Cena/Bryan ****1/2


Wow, really giving out the 5? It was so damn near for me but the first time saying this, I wanted Heyman off the screen.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm reluctant to go any higher on either of them until I see them a couple more times. I'm just happy that we finally got a match over the ****1/4 mark because I didn't have any beyond that. Not only did we get one but we got two. I can't choose between them right now but they're both #1 and #2 MOTY and blow away everything else we've seen this year. 

Undertaker ain't getting no MOTY in 2013. :shocked:


----------



## Sir Digby Chicken Caesar (Nov 12, 2006)

*Summerslam 2013*

Wyatt/Kane: **** - More of a segment but Wyatt is fucking amazing :mark:
Rhodes/Sandow: **** They didn't get any time but it was decent for what it was
Del Rio/Christian: ****1/2* Great, as was expected.
Lesnar/Punk: *****3/4-****** THIS is why i watch WWE.
Team Ziggles/Team AJ: *** A true mess of a match
BRAYN GOA/CENA GOAT: *****1/2* Didn't feel like a WWE match and that's a good thing. Cena was excellent here and of course as was DBry

ORTON'S INTERESTING AGAIN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man what an event, I need to rewatch the 2 main events to get some clarity, but right now I have both at ****1/2 with the Cena vs Bryan match getting the slightest edge. What a great finish, and the booking for the whole event was spot on. I am kinda sad DBry lost the title, but a BABYFACE Bryan chafing a heel orton for the WWE championship has the potential for greatness. I'm hoping for a 3 way at NoC with Punk Bryan and Orton, because I think they are gonna save Orton vs Bryan for a non-B ppv. What a night though. I'm completely satisfied with the direction the Main event seen is heading the next few months. Obviously Punk and Bryan delivered, but a lot of props go to Lesnar and Cena who both turned in career performances, Cena especially. Lesnar sells submissions so good :mark:

Final count:
RVD vs Ambrose- *
Wyatt vs Kane 1/2*
Rhodes vs Sandow- **1/2
Nat vs Brie- *1/2
Christian vs ADR ***1/4
Punk vs Lesnar- ****1/2
Ziggler/Kaitlyn vs Aj/Big E - **
Cena vs Bryan- ****1/2

Event as a whole? ****, just for the 2 main events and the booking.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I went to bed after Punk/Lesnar and got spoilt the result of Bryan/Cena. AHHHHHHHHH. Will still watch because Bryan is the one guy who winning in this situation would get an appropriate reaction out of me, but christ not being in total suspense will be annoying. I wanted to be like 13 year old me in 2004 telling my mate who'd popped round to shut up when Eddie hit the frog splash on Lesnar and won.

Punk/Lesnar needs a rewatch considering I generally struggle to rate a match watching live bar 'good' or 'great'. From what I saw it looked great, but below Cena/Lesnar. Back and rib work not going anywhere in another setting might have bugged me more, but Punk sold exhaustion and the wear & tear well enough that I could buy him being physically spent without needing to grab his ribs at every opportunity. Layout just makes a mockery of HHH's insistence on quasi 50/50 matches. Lesnar dominates ferociously, Punk tries valiantly to find an opening and goes gun ho when he does. Punk layed in some stiff strikes which looked nasty and Lesnar continued to amaze when asked to believeably sell enough to showcase he's mortal and capable of being hurt. Action outside the ring was good and put over the caged animal being unleashed atmosphere you want in a Lesnar match and they built to the finish remarkably. Punk's triangle looked hideous but again I can accept the intention was bright. Concur with Mike mind about the finish, just felt a bit Sting esque on Punk's part to focus so long on Heyman. Its one thing to catch him and deck him instantly, but between stepping on the chair, then pulling him up & THEN decking him it just felt a bit too blatantly reckless on his part in forgetting about that big fucking animal he was fighting. Heyman interference during the GTS was a great nearfall however, place literally wanted to see him die for his sins there and then and it was delicious.

Christian/Del Rio was very good. It's a match built around Christian limb selling, how does one even fuck that up? Thought Del Rio had a couple of creative ways to target the arm (double stomp off the top) which added to the match and ensured it wasn't just another limb dissection that didn't deviate from any other match. He ate a couple of big bumps but I thought Christian's selling and build to his counters and signature offence really held the match together through the middle into the finishing stretch and the payoff in the finish was well earnt.

Kane/Wyatt was a pure angle driven match for me in a way that I didn't care if it didn't set the world on fire (pun not intended). Still, that was shite. Miscommunication on a couple of moves lead to some awkward Wyatt bumps and they really made him look pretty crap in terms of getting squashed. His followers trying to valiantly rescue him had merit, but you really want Wyatt to still be a big fucking obstacle on top of his henchmen and this match was booked more like he was a scrawny Brian Kendrick esque punk who needs henchmen to overcome his pitiful sole threat.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Lesnar in a submission hold takes years off my life. Holy shit I'm watching through my hands in fear of him tapping out when he's locked in a hold. Happened at Mania, happened at ER and happened again last night. The way he hovers his hand is painstaking lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just finished watching. ****1/2 for the double Main Event, ***3/4 for ADR/Christian imo.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Spoiler: Bryan downs Cena















Beautiful. Hopefully Bryan will use this as a new finisher, if it can beat Cena clean then it must be good enough right? Much better than seeing him win with a roll-up.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Wow! Lesnar/Punk was epic. Best Brock match since his return for me

****3/4 definitely best match of the night. 

Cena/Bryan ****1/4 awesome as well

Christan/Del Rio ***3/4


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Duke Silver said:


> It was depressing to see Bryan screwed out of the title but talk about perfect execution. Bryan chasing the title, on the hunt for redemption, against a heel corporation, has so much potential.


Yeah, every time WWE "screws" Bryan out of something, he comes out bigger and stronger than ever. Being fired, 18 seconds, comedy joke tag team, now this. The guy's like a fucking Jedi Ghost, strike him down, he'll be more powerful than anything you can imagine. And turning Orton heel is the perfect opponent for him. The matches are going to be fantastic. #HYPED!


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Lesnar in a submission hold takes years off my life. Holy shit I'm watching through my hands in fear of him tapping out when he's locked in a hold. Happened at Mania, happened at ER and happened again last night. The way he hovers his hand is painstaking lol.


Yeah, Lesnar selling submission holds and pinfalls like you're supposed to. Fucking magnificent. Marked the fuck out for the most beautiful Powerbomb I've ever seen from the ring corner to the other and los tres amigos. 

As much as I would love a rematch, I hope Lesnar gets Taker at Mania 30.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Spoiler: Bryan downs Cena
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought the same thing last night. It beat Cena clean. It's got to be his new impact finisher; which is brilliant. Bryan could really use something that he can hit out of nowhere. And with that, I want to see Bryan hit that sumbitch on Orton when he's least expecting it. Hopefully tonight.

--

I haven't felt the need to rewatch a PPV the next day this year, but I'll be diving right back into Cena/Bryan and Punk/Brock today. I could very realistically see myself putting those two matches in the #1 and #2 MOTY slots immediately. Main-events haven't delivered like that since ER12.

ADR/Christian was a solid match as well (***1/2). Especially given how few fucks WWE, fans, and myself gave prior.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

*Wyatt/Kane - ** *
Obviously a match like this can never be good, it's always for spectacle only. Don't really care for Wyatt but he looked pretty weak here and the post-match beatdown was lame.

*Sandow/Rhodes - ** 1/4*
Was fine. Nothing to write home about but they were definitely limited by time. Of course the MITB winner would lose next PPV after winning the briefcase just as every other has before him.

*Christian/Del Rio - *** 1/2*
Knew these two could produce the goods but wasn't exactly expecting it. Great match. Del Rio's enziguris are amazing.

*Brie/Natalya - 1/4**
Stop the pain.

*Lesnar/Punk - ****1/4*
Amazing match and most likely MOTY thus far. No way in hell is it 5 stars and neither is it as good as Cena/Lesnar but still an incredible performance by all 3 men involved. WHAT A THROW.

*Mixed tag - *1/2*
It was what it was. Good to see Ziggler getting a clean pin over Langston. I had zero hopes or expectations of Langston for a long time but I can he has some good agility for such a big guy. This most certainly isn't a Khali case and he's got a chance of a decent future.

*Cena/Bryan - ***3/4*
Is it weird to give that score and say I was a bit disappointed? I don't know what it was; the crowd was electric, they performed well but I still felt something was missing. The only thing I can think of is Cena's elbow caused him to take it easier than usual. The ending was also anti-climactic as hell. Don't get me wrong, the knee was BRUTAL but I would never in a million years expect it to beat Cena. I would've loved so much for Cena to tap or even pass out, and the elbow injury excuse would've been fine reasoning for him to submit.

Post-match..hm. I guess we'll see if they're in cahoots with Vince but I was surprised neither he nor Maddox showed up. Suppose I was anticipating more interference on the whole. Would've also liked to see Bryan kick out from the Pedigree - I love it when the cash-in doesn't go to immediately to plan, like Cena kicking out of Edge's first spear & Punk's first failed GTS to Hardy. Gives it a slight air of unpredictability even if you do realise the inevitable. Then you would've had Triple H hoist him Bryan up for Orton to RKO.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Looking good :HHH2


SummerSlam was a great show. Best PPV of the year for sure. I love Cena/Bryan, BROCK/Punk, and Christian/Del Rio (maybe this one more than most). They all delivered and are MOTYC. BROCK/Punk just may be #1 and if it is not it is a close #2 of the year after Punk/Taker. Bryan was phenomenal in his match with Cena. I loved how the incorporated some Japanese flavor to that match and the finish was oh so excellent leading to the epic heel turns cash-in by Orton. Completely satisfied with how everything went down here. I am so looking forward to watching Bryan's chase for the gold in the coming weeks/months and Orton/Hunter tear shit up in the WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Duke Silver said:


> I thought the same thing last night. It beat Cena clean. It's got to be his new impact finisher; which is brilliant. Bryan could really use something that he can hit out of nowhere. And with that, I want to see Bryan hit that sumbitch on Orton when he's least expecting it. Hopefully tonight.
> 
> --
> 
> ...



Agree, that running knee was pure Daniel Bryan, I hope he adds it to his repertoire. I dunno if he really needs a finisher, he's done remarkably well without one and its kinda become his gimmick, that he's the anti wwe superstar who uses a roll up to finish people without having a signature finish. That said I Marked HARD seeing Cena ended with that beautiful move, such aerfect way to end the match. I also love that Bryan got his moment after the match before Orton cashed in, it would have been hard to take if Ortons music hit immediately after the finish. Great booking for the event.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Them 3 matches probably make it PPV of the year for me. Perhaps. I can't think of a PPV with 3 or even 2 of the 3 matches that strong and I can't remember one that was just good all around. That said though I thought Punk/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena would have been a little better than they both were.

Ambrose/RVD sucked. The control segment teaching at the developmental center must be a blast. "Sit in a headlock for two minutes. Do one of your moves. Two if you're feeling frisky. Then another resthold for 2 minutes." Every single midcarder works the same control segment. At least Cesaro finds a way to make them headlocks mean something more than a rest hold though. Ambrose isn't the very good in the ring but I knew that from his Indy days. He's not bad but he's not good either. He's much better when he gets longer matches with really strong stories to work with. Hence why the Rollins and Regal matches worked and also that Danielson match from DGUSA. I got excited when the other 4 came down with 15 minutes left in the pre-show but then the 4 good workers stood at ringside while the 2 not so good ones wrestled in the ring. Joy. DQ finishes in Shield matches are so overdone. 

Kane/Wyatt was poor but there were enough distractions at ringside for it to not be terrible. Wyatt getting KILLED by KANE in his debut was atrocious booking. Wyatt's not bad in the ring in the sense that he can have a good match with someone else who is good but he's not getting good matches out of anyone below or maybe at his level. He'd be much better working tag matches for the majority of his time but so would 90% of the roster to hide their weaknesses and expose their strengths. Wyatt looks so aesthically terrible too. Not in a Luke Harper way either. 

Cody/Sandow was just there as I expected it to be. Sandow's lost at every opportunity since winning MITB. Worst thing is that nobody is surprised by it.

Christian/ADR was really good. Their TV matches were always good and then they had one on SD 2 weeks ago that I thought was as good as this one. I liked Del Rio a hell of a lot more than normal in this. He's much better when he's focused on being vicious rather than trying to draw heat from the crowd in between every move and being too fancy. Arm work is great and duh Christian's selling is always gonna be on point. Finish was good too. ***3/4

Punk/Lesnar started out like a potential MOTY with Brock annihilating Punk. Then it got a little slow when they started doing their submissions and it looks less like a massacre and more like a contest which drew me out of it a little. Finish was a bit too .... traditional? I don't know. I would have preffered Brock to be throwing Punk around ringside for longer and for Punk to just get one or two big nearfalls before his focus on Heyman cost him. I think they were too worried about having Punk look too weak. Something closer to how Cena/Lesnar was structured would have worked a lot better here for me because I didn't think Punk needed to get in as much on Brock as he did. Especially when he's getting his win at a later date over him. GTS and the DDT F-5 counter were great near falls though. I would have done less with Heyman at the finish. Just have him run in once and get Punk to chase him before running right into an F-5 for the finish. Fits perfectly with the story that Punk wants Paul more than Brock and that's gonna get him killed because the other guy is BROCK LESNAR. Not sure why Punk is getting his hands on Heyman this early too. Really that should be the big finale of the feud but whatever. Could have done with it being a bit shorter too. Went like nearly 30 right? ***3/4

Mixed Tag was nothing. The divas worked more of the match than Ziggler. I feel bad for Ziggler getting stuck in this position just after turning face. Talk about helping someone get over after a turn. Kaitlyn's spear is always great on AJ. Ziggler and Langston would probably have a really good singles match if they ever get a proper one.

Main event was MOTN for me. Thought it was great but at the same time I was also waiting for it to become something special and it never really did. Maybe that was having my expectations too high but I think it's fair to expect for Bryan and Cena to produce something really memorable in this context. It was still great though. Finish was strange. If that's the finish then I don't know why Bryan was beating people with it on TV in the build up. I mean he didn't even beat Barrett with it on SD. Debuting a new move to win you the title is odd becase nobody really expects that to be the finish which is strange for the reaction when it is. Did anyone expect the AA to be the finish when it came? Thought not. Ending was predictable but at the same foreshadowed pretty well. It's a shame that Bryan will still be overshadowed at every point by others. Kinda like he's in the spotlight but the spotlight isn't ON him. He's still probably feuding with Orton, Hunter & Vince though which is definitely a move in the right direction and for the story to mean anything he has to win the title back now at some point and get a proper run with it. Hunter turning was clear once he stuck around but I'd rather him be heel than face right now. Orton/Hunter/Vince alliance doesn't sound like the worst thing. Someone has to be the babyface authority figure though. I guess Steph but she's so bad at being likeable. I read that Vince would be the babyface one but that makes no sense in the current context because he was doing everything to screw Bryan out of even getting to Summerslam. Cena/Bryan vs Orton/HHH at Survivor Series? *****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CM Punk vs Brock lesnar is hands down the MOTY for me at this very time. The organic atmosphere mixed with brilliant performances from both competitors created the perfect cocktail for a match that had me on the edge of my seat the entire time. Arguably the best WWE match besides Cena-Lesnar in a really, really long time and probably Punk's best. I haven't seen anything like lesnar before in my life, he truly is a special, special talent and deserves all the money that he's earned on this run. I'd go as far as to call 2012-2013 Brock lesnar the equivalent of a Volk Han when it comes to his work. Punk will obviously be acknowledged for his awe inspiring baby face performance last night, and the two have some electric chemistry that I haven't seen before, but Brock is seriously otherworldly. For my money, he's the greatest match to match performer in perhaps company history and I'm not exaggerating one bit. There's a five star argument for that match last night, it was fantastic wrestling personified.

Bryan vs Cena obviously wasn't too shabby either, as it featured a pair of brilliant performances as well as a great Cena side arc in which he's getting manhandled by Bryan on the wrestling side of things for the longest while. I mean, Bryan didn't just beat Cena, he DESTROYED Cena for the most part. That wasa brilliant story and the way that it ended so quickly kept things away from the traditional wwe main event formula, breathing fresh air into the main event performance scene which was desperately needed. It was a better dual main event than Summerslam 2011, an event that I love dearly. 

Oh, and we have a heel Triple H, which made me actually mark out for orton winning the title, somethingnthatbinnever innanmillionnyears thought was possible. The YES gestures by him while his corporate champ holds up the belt was one of the most evil things I've ever seen and it instantly makes HHH the top heel in the company once again, completely overshadowing ortons turn. IT'S BEEN SEVEN LONG YEARS. We finally have out game back (brb changing my username back to KOK  ). Would imagine that this leads to A series of Orton-Bryan matches and then a HHH-Bryan match, maybe in the cell perhaps? 

(Excuse the awful writing above, my phone is ridiculous, you get the point)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wonder if Brock or Heyman will be there tonight, to say basically "Seeya later" 'till Lesnar returns for Mania, or will they just leave it 'till he does return.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lesnar return stuff:

1 - vs Cena (*****)
2 - vs Punk (****1/2)
3 - vs HHH 3 (****1/4)
4 - vs HHH 1 (***3/4)
5 - vs HHH 2 (***3/4)

:brock :cena4 unk :heyman :HHH


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody and TLK hope you brought me that Ziggler shirt I asked for and I expectt it on my doorstep by Wednesday :lol JK. Once you guys get off cloud 9 tell me how it was


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm with you on the Lesnar point, the dude is just unreal, he doesn't have anything less than ***1/2 matches, and most are **** and above. He's just brilliant in the ring, and him being a part timer really adds to the "BIG MATCH" atmosphere. Punk also deserves commendation, obviously, for the fantastic baby face performance he had last night. 

I really can't decide which match I like more between the 2 main events last night, both were so well booked and executed that its hard to pick a favorite. After rewatching both this morning, if you put a gun to my head, I'd probably take Lesnar vs Punk. 

Since Brock is gone and Cena is taking time off, do you guys think a 3 way with Punk Bryan and Orton is in the cards for the next PPV, In order to delay the inevitable Orton vs Bryan singles match for a later, more significant PPv? I can see it happening, I mean what else is Punk gonna do?

Either way, I'm so happy Orton finally turned heel again. WWE was sorely lacking in top heels with Punk, Bryan, Cena, ad Ziggler all being baby face. Only ADR really is a heel who has main evented PPV's. I'm interested to see where this goes...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

cjack828 said:


> Since Brock is gone and Cena is taking time off, do you guys think a 3 way with Punk Bryan and Orton is in the cards for the next PPV, In order to delay the inevitable Orton vs Bryan singles match for a later, more significant PPv? I can see it happening, I mean what else is Punk gonna do?


Punk needs a win though coming off Summerslam, and he'd clearly lose in that situation. I'd rather Punk stay away from the WWE Title until either the main event of Mania, or when he's gonna win it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Punk's probably staying away from the title for a while, which really is okay. Part of me thinks he'll feud with Axel for real this time, which would stink compared to what he's been doing the last month. Interesting to see what happens tonight for sure.

Also agree about Brock - he really is something special. Granted, I think less of the WM match than most, but he can bring it with anyone he's with. There's such an aura about him that can't be explained. I think last night was the best match he's had back, due to Punk being the best ring worker he's worked with (though he's only worked with three people), and the story aided the match. Punk looked strong without Brock looking weak, which isn't easy. Angry-Face-Punk is almost as great as Crazy-Heel-Punk, imo.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Only watched them in the arena, but I'll throw out 4 3/4 for Punk/Lesnar and 4 1/2 for Cena/Bryan. Fucking hell my throat my hurts too


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On the Lesnar stuff, I'm not high on the Lesnar/HHH, which probably surprises many of you :HHH2 (*** is highest rated match for them, and overall their trilogy is probably the worst big-match trilogy of all time). However considering his match with Cena and now his match with Punk, I'm sorta willing to give that a pass as them just having absolutely no chemistry (Lesnar/HHH), as far as it relates to Brock. Brock is just a beast and even though he does drag the pace down a bit at times, he does make up for it with some brutal looking moves and shots, and overall he's an awesome worker.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Lesnar works slower than most, so pairing him with HHH was always going to put some people off that don't like slower matches and prefer them with a quicker pace. That's what the Punk match was able to achieve last night. Punk's quickness gave a nice balance to Lesnar's methodical pace. The Cena match is pretty unique so it's hard to categorize since Lesnar is on top throughout. I like the first two Brock/HHH matches but don't love them. Thoroughly enjoyed the cage match though, which IMO is still the second best PPV main event of the year now behind Cena/Bryan from last night. Though it's hardly been a good year for PPV main events apart from those two.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I want to talk about Brock/Punk alittle if I can. I've tried to rationalize it and not overrate it, I slept on it and guys I'm falling in love with it. I can't think of anything wrong with it.

I don't believe in 5* anymore as all matchws have some flaws, I only have 4, 6 one a good day, but I can't laugh at those who have it at 5 stars, all the ingredient were there for it . Only flaw I can even think of nitpicking abit was time and the false finishes could of been cut a bit. Ill have it a ****3/4 on the first watch . Sorry Evan but I think this may be better than lesnar/cena 

I'm heartbroken but I think I may have to part from my baby ziggler/ del rio pb being MOTY


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

1. Brock/Cena (EXTREME RULES) - ER 2012
2. Brock/Punk (NO DQ) - SummerSlam 2013
3. Brock/Hunter (STEEL CAGE) - ER 2013
4. Brock/Hunter (NO HOLDS BARRED) - WrestleMania 29
5. Brock/Hunter (NO DQ) - SummerSlam 2012

in order of the best of for Brock's matches since his return.

IMO 2 excellent matches (Punk - SummerSlam 13 & Cena - ER 12). 1 really good match (Hunter - ER 13). 1 fine match (WM 29). 1 boring match (wasn't bad but just way too slow paced: Hunter - SummerSlam 12)


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

^ Agree 100%. Though I didn't find the first HHH/Brock match boring, it is Brock's worst match since returning IMO. Though I probably need to watch it again, the other two are much fresher in my mind.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

****1/2 for Lesnar/Punk from my POV. Some of the best stuff in a very long time. Would go higher on it, but I don't think it's the same level of the matches I have @ 3/4 or the full 5. Didn't feel very keen on Bryan/Cena, but it very well worked. Didn't like the anticipation of Orton coming in, felt like it diminished the match while watching it. Oh well, still a top notch encounter, probably ****. I'd give del Rio/Christian ***3/4. Perfect for it being a short encounter. Everyone dislikes del Rio, can understand why, but the guy is a legit champion and definately one of the best in the WWE today.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I want to talk about Brock/Punk alittle if I can. I've tried to rationalize it and not overrate it, I slept on it and guys I'm falling in love with it. I can't think of anything wrong with it.
> 
> I don't believe in 5* anymore as all matcg have some flaws, I only have 4, 6 one a good day, but I can't laugh at those who have it at 5 stars, all the ingredient were there for it . Only flaw I can even think of nitpicking abit was time and the false finishes could of been cut a bit. Ill have it a ****3/4 on the first watch . Sorry Evan but I think this may be better than lesnar/cena
> 
> I'm heartbroken but I think I may have to part from my baby ziggler/ del rio pb being MOTY



5 Star Matches in WWE since 1990

Savage vs Warrior at Mania
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at Mania 
Bret Hart vs Stone Cold at Mania (GOAT match)
HBK vs Undertaker At Bad Blood
Mankind vs HBK at Mindgames
Cactus Jack vs Triple H at Royal Rumble
Benoit vs Triple H vs HBK at Mania
HBK vs Undertaker at Mania 25
CM Punk vs Cena at MitB 2011

Then I have about 6-7 matches I might rate 5 if I'm feeling good, but the ones I listed are the only stone cold locks for 5 stars. Last nights Lesnar vs Punk bout comes close to those borderline ones, but is not quite there so I give it ****1/2. Great night for the WWE though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ER13 > Summerslam 12 > Mania 29 (imo) for Brock/HHH trilogy.

Am drafting up my LIVE SUMMERSLAM REVIEW~! for your reading pleasure.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

^^^I re-watched the SummerSlam 12 match yesterday. It wasn't bad by any means, it was just very slow-paced and there was a lot of stalling. Their steel cage match they went right at each other right away (in fact Hunter started before the bell rang).

Might have to re-watch the Mania 29 match to see the difference between that and SummerSlam match.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Its been along while since I've posted in here, had so much work and study but now it's finally over. Maybe now ill be able to be a regular on this thread. First things first what a PPV. The double main event was exceptional as expected, and Christian/Del Rio had a very classy 12 minute match. I'm still trying to think what is MOTN and MOTY for me, might be Punk/Lesnar but only just. I love the contrasting styles of matches the main events delivered, one an all out war and the other a masterful wrestling match. It's really early in the morning over here, but I might watch the show again in the morning and post a big review of the show. But for now my first take on the PPV of the year. 


*Summerslam 2013*


Bray Wyatt vs Kane - *1/2 **


Cody Rhodes vs Damien Sandow - *** 3/4*


Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - **** 3/4*


Natalya vs Brie Bella - ** 1/2*


Cm Punk vs Brock Lesnar - ***** 1/2*


Dolph Ziggler & Kaitlyn vs Big E & AJ Lee - ****


Daniel Bryan vs John Cena - ***** 1/2*​



Ohhhhhh and Btw :HHH as a heel :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Lesnar's return as a whole.

SS 2013>ER 2012>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS 2012>ER2013>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WM29

Gonna re-watch Punk/Brock and then maybe Bryan/Cena after if I can find a youtube/dailymotion link (*wink*)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> On Lesnar's return as a whole.
> 
> SS 2013>ER 2012>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS 2012>ER2013>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WM29
> 
> Gonna re-watch Punk/Brock and then maybe Bryan/Cena after if I can find a youtube/dailymotion link (*wink*)


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13b2p1_cm-punk-the-best-vs-brock-lesnar-the-beast_sport

Saw it on YT too but wasn't that keen on the quality. Ill still wait for a better quality one 'till i watch it, still trying to get my hands on a copy of SS


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MOTY list atm: Taker/Punk > Brock/Punk > Cena/Punk > Cena/Bryan (all ****1/2 imo).

*Dat Punk* unk


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> 5 Star Matches in WWE since 1990
> 
> Savage vs Warrior at Mania
> Bret Hart vs Owen Hart at Mania
> ...


There only 4-6 I have the full five

hbk/taker I
hbk/taker II
hbk/taker III
bret/scsa
cena/lesnar ?
punk/cena mitb 

And see this is where it gets tricky for me, I have cena/lesnar borderline 5* right, but I enjoyed brock/punk much more but I dont think its 5* what happens now ? 

I also agree, idk who said it yesterday, I have to be in the mood to love cena/lesnar,


Some ppl still have punk/taker >> punk/brock ?


Edit: ziggler/del rio and punk/brock are tied for me as MOTY


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

At the moment, I'm sticking with Ziggler/Del Rio from Payback as my MOTY. That could definitely change after rewatches of last nights 2 main events, I'm expecting Cena/Bryan to overtake it for sure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ziggler/ADR rounds the Top 5 for me, but I only have it at ****1/4.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> Some ppl still have punk/taker >> punk/brock ?


Yup, but not by much. Currently re-watching Punk/Brock though, and I'm enjoying it so far more than last night, so that might change.

Ziggler/ADR from Payback was an awesome match, but it wouldn't crack my top 5 of the year so far. Actually I posted my top 10 last night... think it might've just been pushed off.

Edit: Actually upon checking, it's #7.

Edit: Oh, and watching this again, lol at the people saying Punk would look too small against Lesnar.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

*TLK'S SUMMERSLAM 2013 REVIEW~!​*
Well, that was fun as fuck. Went with Cody (Hayleysabin) and his brother (Maple Leaf Muscle) and we had a great time. Seats were pretty awesome, as well, though I don't think you could see us on TV (Cody claims he saw himself after the Rhodes/Sandow match, though). I'll give some thoughts on the matches and also provide a live crowd reaction report.

We were below the panel, so we got a pretty good view of Vickie/Booker/HBK. Loud HBK chant before the show started which he acknowledged. Crowd was about 50-75% full when the pre-show started, as people were still filing in (doors were supposed to open at 3:30 but it was closer to 4). Michael Cole got booed pretty heavily, as was expected. JBL got a great pop. Jerry did as well.

*Dean Ambrose vs RVD* - Ambrose got a pretty great pop for his entrance, but was back to being booed during the match. RVD was SUPER FUCKING over. Like, really over. Probably third most over person last night (behind Punk and Bryan). Match was decent, but made much better by the crowd being so into RVD. Interference by other Shield members and Henry/Show was predictable, but I'm surprised it didn't lead to a match on the main card (glad it didn't since the two main events got ample time). 

*Bray Wyatt vs Kane in a RING OF FIRE~!* - Wyatt's entrance live is fucking badass. There was a pretty great pop for the "We're here" bit. People were clapping along with his theme music. Idk if that was captured on TV or not. Match was pretty bad, but being there live probably enhanced the experience a bit since the fire was a sight to behold. They were pretty limited in what they could do, and I was a bit perplexed that Wyatt basically got MURDERED (3 chokeslams?) in his debut, but oh well. They effectively wrote Kane off TV for a bit. Shit match, cool atmosphere.

*Cody Rhodes vs Damien Sandow* - Sandow got a decent pop. Neither were super over, but crowd was pulling for Cody during the match. Solid match considering the time they got. Clean win for Cody was probably the right move, as he can challenge Sandow after he cashes in. I think both need a bit of elevating first, though.

*Christian vs Alberto Del Rio* - Great, great match. ADR was actually over (lots of Mexicans in southern California :side as was Christian. Both men took quite a beating in this match, particularly Christian. There were a few times that ADR looked to have KILLED Christian with stiff kicks to the head. One in particular was when Christian was perched on the top turnbuckle and ADR hit his running enziguiri. That was loud as fuck. Crowd rallied behind Christian, whose babyface performance was pretty great. His selling of ADR's arm work was awesome. Superb match.

*Divas nonsense* - Bathroom/refreshment break. 

*CM Punk vs BROCK Lesnar* - Fuck. Not sure where to begin here. Punk was incredibly over. Loud CM Punk chants after Brock's entrance. Brock in beanie = . Guy is scary. Like, really scary. Heyman was great throughout. Dude sitting next to me kept saying he wanted Heyman to go away forever. I was like, "the fuck? Quit talking to me." Match was phenomenal. Both looked great coming out of that. Punk threw everything he could at Brock, but the monster wouldn't stay down. Brock's slower, methodical pace meshed nicely with Punk's fiery attacks. Great chemistry. Brock tossing Punk around like a rag doll (announce table spot) was awesome. There were a few times my heart almost stopped when Punk had Brock in the various submission holds. Dude had me thinking he was going to tap like 5 different times. He's great. Like, otherworldly great. He just knows what he's doing. A natural performer. Punk was at his best here as well. Crowd was probably 90-10 in favor of Punk, but didn't boo when Lesnar won. Loud CM Punk chant after Lesnar/Heyman exited and Punk remained in the ring. Apparently both Lesnar and Punk got a standing ovation from the wrestlers in the back when they came through the curtain. Deservedly so. Probably MOTY right now.

*DOLPH/Kaitlyn vs Big E/AJ* - Dolph got a decent pop, but nothing close to what he was getting a month or so ago. This was to be expected, though, considering his current booking and the placement on the card. Crowd was exhausted after Lesnar/Punk. Langston is the only person all ngiht who didn't get a reaction. Guy sucks. Glad Dolph picked up a win. Hopefully he can move onto better things now.

*Daniel Bryan vs John Cena* - Fuck x2. Triple H coming out to King of Kings theme = :mark:. He did a very good job of making the crowd forget he was there until when it mattered. Great execution of this entire storyline. Triple H being the guy who backed Bryan from the get-go, but ultimately aligning with his father-in-law and carrying out Vince's wishes of having the champ be someone other than Bryan or Cena. More on this in a bit. 

Match itself was amazing. Crowd was super hot throughout. YES chants were near-deafening. Cena came out to nuclear heat, and was booed throughout the match. I'd say crowd was 80-20 in favor of Bryan. Cena even played a heelish role in the match. Crowd dearly wanted Bryan to win. The story of that match was great. Whenever Cena tried to _wrestle_ Bryan, he failed miserably, as Bryan had a counter to EVERYTHING. This plays perfectly into the build-up to their feud. There were a few sloppy parts with Cena (Styles Clash botch, not catching Bryan on Bryan's second turnbuckle backflip), but the guy was basically working a 30-minute match with one arm, so it didn't really hinder anything. The story came full circle when they did their fighting spirit slapfest, which alluded to Bryan's promo from last week about _wrestlers_ slapping each other to light a fire under them. Great moment. Now, the finish. My reaction was a bit delayed since I never expected Bryan to pin him cleanly. Wow. Once I realized what had happened, I was jumping up and down like a little girl. Everyone was. Crowd went absolutely apeshit. People high-fiving each other, jumping around, chanting YES! It was amazing. The celebration after Cena shook his hand really made you think Orton wouldn't come out. Then Orton's music hit and you can almost feel the crowd's collective hearts sink. The tease was well done, but Bryan being the fireball he is kept goading Orton to come back and cash in. Then Trips turned heel mark and hit the Pedigree. Orton's mannerisms here were great. Bryan sold the Pedigree for what seemed like 10 minutes :lmao, but this was executed to perfection. Trips mocking the YES motion was so evil that it was awesome. Heel Trips in 2013? Yes, please. Just an epic turn of events, and excellent booking all around. I can get on board with Bryan/Orton and Bryan/Hunter. Sign me up. Crowd chanted "bullshit!" pretty loudly once Bryan was making his way back up the ramp. Bryan played this up, and urged the crowd to chant it louder. I think this was after the PPV went off the air, so I thought I'd share that with you guys.

All in all, a great show, with two epic main events. :hb


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13bcwo_wwe-summerslam-2013-720p-hdtv-x264-rudos-003_sport

If anyone wants it in good quality.

About to rewatch BROCK/Punk and then the main event as well as HHH and Orton's heel turn. :mark: Still can't believe it. It was surreal!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

After giving it a re-watch, I'm rating Punk/Lesnar as ★★★★3/4. Current MOTY in my opinion. This was as close to a masterpiece as you can get. These two fucking ruled together.

One thing that gets overlooked is the Heyman involvement which was another thing I loved about the match. Throughout the match, Brock over-powered Punk whereas Punk out-smarted Lesnar at every turn. Once Heyman kept getting in the way, Punk let his emotions get the best of him even when he had Brock down and out. Instead of keeping Brock down and getting the pinfall, he goes after Heyman who betrayed him. Punk's mistake of letting his emotion get the best of him catches up to him with Brock giving him an F-5 and getting the victory. That is story-telling at it's finest. 

As much as I adored Bryan/Cena, Punk/Lesnar stole the show. I can't see anybody topping this tbh.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Punk and Lesnar had MOTY imo. I also think Orton and Bryan could top it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Okay, so watching Punk/Brock again, I was almost ready to give it ***** by the end. There are a couple of little things that bothered me, like the pacing at certain points with Lesnar in control (although for the most part, it was the pace was amazing and it wasn't that big of a deal), and also Punk's first elbow drop (without the chair). It kinda bothers me that it looked like he wanted to use the right elbow, but at the last second switched to the left and it came off looking odd. Heyman interfering as much as he did also bugged me a bit, although on the same token I loved how Heyman ended up becoming Punk's un-doing. . Individually, they wouldn't stop me from calling a match *****, but together it pushes it down a bit for me.

However I'd give it ****3/4, and while I need to re-watch Taker/Punk again, right now I'd have Punk/Brock as MOTY. Two classics in one year for Punk. I'd still call Bryan WOTY so far, but Punk's matches and performances at Mania and Summerslam are keeping things as close as possible and making him the solid number 2 currently.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The Lady Killer said:


> *TLK'S SUMMERSLAM 2013 REVIEW~!​*
> *Daniel Bryan vs John Cena* - Fuck x2. Triple H coming out to King of Kings theme = :mark:. He did a very good job of making the crowd forget he was there until when it mattered. Great execution of this entire storyline. Triple H being the guy who backed Bryan from the get-go, but ultimately aligning with his father-in-law and carrying out Vince's wishes of having the champ be someone other than Bryan or Cena. More on this in a bit.
> 
> Match itself was amazing. Crowd was super hot throughout. YES chants were near-deafening. Cena came out to nuclear heat, and was booed throughout the match. I'd say crowd was 80-20 in favor of Bryan. Cena even played a heelish role in the match. Crowd dearly wanted Bryan to win. The story of that match was great. Whenever Cena tried to _wrestle_ Bryan, he failed miserably, as Bryan had a counter to EVERYTHING. This plays perfectly into the build-up to their feud. There were a few sloppy parts with Cena (Styles Clash botch, not catching Bryan on Bryan's second turnbuckle backflip), but the guy was basically working a 30-minute match with one arm, so it didn't really hinder anything. The story came full circle when they did their fighting spirit slapfest, which alluded to Bryan's promo from last week about _wrestlers_ slapping each other to light a fire under them. Great moment. Now, the finish. My reaction was a bit delayed since I never expected Bryan to pin him cleanly. Wow. Once I realized what had happened, I was jumping up and down like a little girl. Everyone was. Crowd went absolutely apeshit. People high-fiving each other, jumping around, chanting YES! It was amazing. The celebration after Cena shook his hand really made you think Orton wouldn't come out. Then Orton's music hit and you can almost feel the crowd's collective hearts sink. The tease was well done, but Bryan being the fireball he is kept goading Orton to come back and cash in. Then Trips turned heel mark and hit the Pedigree. Orton's mannerisms here were great. Bryan sold the Pedigree for what seemed like 10 minutes :lmao, but this was executed to perfection. Trips mocking the YES motion was so evil that it was awesome. Heel Trips in 2013? Yes, please. Just an epic turn of events, and excellent booking all around. I can get on board with Bryan/Orton and Bryan/Hunter. Sign me up. Crowd chanted "bullshit!" pretty loudly once Bryan was making his way back up the ramp. Bryan played this up, and urged the crowd to chant it louder. I think this was after the PPV went off the air, so I thought I'd share that with you guys.
> ...


Great summary of the events as they transpired live all around. Very cool to hear you guys had such a good time. I'm pretty jealous. I really can't think of a WWE event I'd rather have gone to since WM24. Maybe MITB11 for the crazy atmosphere + Cena/Punk. This match and moment felt genuinely special. Like Eddie winning against Brock @ NWO, or Punk winning against Cena @ MITB.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Current match of the year rankings:

1. Punk vs Lesnar SS
2. Bryan vs Cena SS
3. Punk vs Taker WM
4. Punk vs Cena from Raw in January
5. Ziggler vs ADR at Payback


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Last night was an absolute thrillride. Daniel Bryan beat John Cena CLEAN for the WWE Championship at one of the biggest PPVs of the year... and then Randy Orton fucking ruined it. I was (and still am) pretty pissed off about it. But whatever. My thoughts on the show:

*Cena vs. Bryan* may not have had the drama and the nearfalls that Punk/Taker did, but as an entire package from bell to bell I think I can say this is my new MOTY. Both guys did an absolutely astounding job of working off of one another. The strength Cena showed against Bryan's usual attempts at submissions was fantastic, the clothesline from hell out of desperation was fucking AWESOME, and those top rope spots were legitimately shocking. I thought Cena was gonna hit a Styles Clash.  The slapfest and the shock factor of the ending were both brilliant, even Bryan looked surprised he got the 3 count. Cena took all the strikes like a champ and Bryan did extremely well in taking all of Cena's bumps, ESPECIALLY that Liger Bomb and top rop leg drop. Great, great match. ***** 1/4 - **** 1/2

Brock vs. Punk* was hella good for the majority. Brock's control segment was beastly and I loved how he threw Punk around like he was nothing. It did have a really cool big fight feel to it like most of Brock's matches do. I do think some of Punk's offense looked weak as fuck and I believe seeing all the crazy shit that happened on RAW with them over the past couple weeks got our expectations a little high and led me to believe they'd pull out some even crazier stuff (but they didn't). Lots of nasty back shots with the chair and I loved Punk's top rope elbow with it but what really irked was all the slowness and predictability of the last 5 or 10 minutes. I was standing there yelling out everything that was gonna happen as Lesnar creeped out to grab a chair and as Heyman ruined every pinfall for Punk. Really good match still but I know they're capable of better. Put them inside Hell in a Cell and get rid of Heyman, then we've got a classic. OH and I almmost forgot, I couldn't buy into any of Punk's nearfalls or submissions. It just didn't look good enough for me. No way is Lesnar tapping to an Anaconda Vice or the Triangle Choke. No way. ***** - **** 1/4

Christian & Del Rio *went out there and killed it in the midcard. Damn good back and forth match with some ridiculously stiff kicks to the face. Ending sequence was really good and the match as a whole was just great. I'm starting to like Del Rio more and more as time goes on. **** 1/2 - *** 3/4*

Nothing else really stood out but none of it was awful either.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I actually thought the Anaconda Vice was amazing and watching live, I remember thinking Lesnar was gonna tap. That was an awesome false finish. Triangle Choke part... yeah, I knew Lesnar wasn't tapping, but he did as great of a job as he could of making it look like he was maybe gonna.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The biggest pop of Lesnar V Punk was Punk countering the Kimora lock into a triangle choke. 

MMA rules the world.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

The tables have turned this time. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Last night was an absolute thrillride. Daniel Bryan beat John Cena CLEAN for the WWE Championship at one of the biggest PPVs of the year... and then Randy Orton fucking ruined it. I was (and still am) pretty pissed off about it. But whatever. My thoughts on the show:
> 
> *Cena vs. Bryan* may not have had the drama and the nearfalls that Punk/Taker did, but as an entire package from bell to bell I think I can say this is my new MOTY. Both guys did an absolutely astounding job of working off of one another. The strength Cena showed against Bryan's usual attempts at submissions was fantastic, the clothesline from hell out of desperation was fucking AWESOME, and those top rope spots were legitimately shocking. I thought Cena was gonna hit a Styles Clash.  The slapfest and the shock factor of the ending were both brilliant, even Bryan looked surprised he got the 3 count. Cena took all the strikes like a champ and Bryan did extremely well in taking all of Cena's bumps, ESPECIALLY that Liger Bomb and top rop leg drop. Great, great match. ***** 1/4 - **** 1/2
> 
> ...



Lesnar's selling of those submissions is what made them work for me. He sold them so well and had me so nervous he was gonna tap. Without that the match wouldn't have been as good. Brock was phenomenal last night, as was Punk. It can't get too much better than that, but that's just my opinion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I understand where everyone's coming from but Idk what it is, Lesnar just doesn't seem human to me. hahaha. It goes back to the Cage match with Hunter, I just don't _like _or _want _to see Lesnar looking weak or selling something. The Anaconda Vice to me has never been that great looking of a submission anyway so when it's applied to a guy the size of Lesnar, reality starts to kick in and I'm like 'ok guy, let's go just stand up and toss him around', which is of course what he ended up doing with the Triangle Choke (which I don't think was ever fully applied tbh since Lesnar's neck is so fucking huge). Maybe it's a just a problem I'm having with Lesnar. I need to see the guy fucking killed to believe he's really gonna lose, which is exactly why I like his Wrestlemania match with Hunter so much. He had to KILL HIM to win. 

The more I think back to Cena/Bryan (and seeing those GIFs), the better it fucking gets. Seriously guys, what a wrestling match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

And one last thing, the way they've booked and elevated Orton to the top of EVERYTHING the last two months has really, really pissed me off. Essentially they've done an excellent job in turning him heel because I fucking hate the guy now and I used to be a HUGE fan. You wanna turn someone heel? Have him do absolutely nothing and become WWE Champion, crushing arguably the most over guy in the company on the biggest night of his career. Can't wait to root against his boring ass next month. :lol

Kudos WWE.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I have both Cena/Bryan and Punk/Cena MITB at *****

Now the question is which match is better?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk/Cena.

Better atmosphere, Better false finishes, more satisfying ending.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/punk mitb is. Cena/bryan ( Only watched once) is a tad overrated

OK :lol I know this will never be talked about because of the two main events, but christan/del rio is very very good, and probably del rio 2nd best match in wwe. It shits on their ladder match in 2011. ****1/4

MOTY (need to rewatch the two big boys last night)

1) ziggler/del rio and brock/punk
2) cesaro/bryan raw
3) dbryan/cena ss 13
4) cesaro/sheamus me
5) christian/del rio ss 13

I need to rewatch most, 2-5 have the chance to change but 1 is a main stay and I dont see anything coming close to them


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Punk/Cena.
> 
> Better atmosphere, Better false finishes, more satisfying ending.


I was much more satisfied with the ending of Bryan/Cena. A guy at the position of Daniel Bryan cleanly pinning John Cena 1-2-3 in 2013 bumps a match up significantly IMO at least 1/2*.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> cena/punk mitb is. Cena/bryan ( Only watched once) is a tad overrated
> 
> OK :lol I know this will never be talked about because of the two main events, but christan/del rio is very very good, and probably del rio 2nd best match in wwe. It shits on their ladder match in 2011. ****1/4


Overrated in what way?

And I think I'll also watch the Christian/Del Rio match back. Thought it was solid but nothing particularly special but hopefully that'll change.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

That's a great review TLK, very interesting to get a perspective from someone who was actually there in the arena and got to witness such a good PPV. (Y)



Lord Flvcko said:


> The tables have turned this time. :lol


This is pretty cool, not going to lie.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Overrated in what way?
> 
> And I think I'll also watch the Christian/Del Rio match back. Thought it was solid but nothing particularly special but hopefully that'll change.


You know I have to watch it again, it is overrated in a sense I see full fives and its not IMO after the first watch, maybe its me but something was a tad off, idk if its was Cena not keeping up and the pace being affected or just my slightly choppy stream, I started to drift a tad in some parts. It picked up very well at the end though.It was great I just don't think 5* and I didn't enjoy it nearly as match as punk/brock


On another note is there a gif out there of HHH face when Orton gives him the mitb case ? :lmao DAT smile


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just rewatched BROCK vs Punk again. Doesn't have the same effect as watching it live when my heart was racing because Brock made it look like he was this close to submitting. Amazing performance by him and it was cool to see him toss Punk around for so much. Great performance by Punk too as the underdog who refused to give up. My issue is that he was over-protected and Brock looked weak. Too much Heyman interference brings it down a little. But holy fuck, BROCK's selling is top notch. ★★★★½.

Not it's on to Bryan vs Cena and then DEM AWESOME HEEL TURNS! :mark:



Jack Evans 187 said:


> And one last thing, the way they've booked and elevated Orton to the top of EVERYTHING the last two months has really, really pissed me off. Essentially they've done an excellent job in turning him heel because I fucking hate the guy now and I used to be a HUGE fan. You wanna turn someone heel? Have him do absolutely nothing and become WWE Champion, crushing arguably the most over guy in the company on the biggest night of his career. Can't wait to root against his boring ass next month. :lol
> 
> Kudos WWE.


At least it works on so many. 

Not me, though. To get Orton back on top, I'd said FUCK EVERYONE ELSE and finally they have delivered!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Clique said:


> Looking good :HHH2


HOLY FUCK that looks awesome! Jesus Christ WWE. I haven't stopped marking out for 2 days straight lol. First Summerslam and now that trailer. Looks like an epic documentary I can't wait to see that. Speaking of which, Raw later is going to be nuts. If the crowd matches even half the atmosphere of last nights crowd then it will make the whole show better. Hoping for and expecting a good one later, especially DAT HEEL GAME. 

:mark:

And yes, Brock Lesnar is just not human. I'll never forget watching him walk right past me and into the ring in Miami. There's big guys, there's scary guys, there's big and scary guys and then there's Brock Lesnar. Just a complete freak of nature. 

****3/4 - vs. Cena
****1/2 - vs. HHH (SS), vs. Punk
**** - vs. HHH (ER)

Don't have a verdict on the Mania match because I've only seen it once. What a run. Who needs Lesnar to talk when he can show up and be so beastly and entertaining? BORK.

EDIT - Speaking of facial expressions and body language, I think both Orton and Trips excelled at it last night and made the segment that much more effective. The little smirks and Trips with the YES chants was just :lmao. What. A. Dick. It's brilliant. Cole deserves major credit too. He sold that like a boss.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I have both Punk/Lesnar and Cena/Bryan at ****1/2. However, Punk/Lesnar is definitely MOTY. 

And call me crazy but when it's all said and done, Lesnar/Cena will be MOTD. That;s Match of the Decade lol. I'm serious, I think it's a match we'll forever look back on.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I thought Bryan/Cena gets overrated on here too. I can understand why people love it (It was a great match, no doubt) but I felt it took time to get them started. The opening couple of minutes seemed a little slow and Cena wasn't interested at first. I understand he was wrestling with an injured arm and if his opponent wasn't someone like Bryan then I don't think it would have been a great match. That's not too say that Cena didn't have his moments in the match because he held his own in the closing stages of the match. That was one of the best clothesline I've seen in a while.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> *TLK'S SUMMERSLAM 2013 REVIEW~!​*
> Well, that was fun as fuck. Went with Cody (Hayleysabin) and his brother (Maple Leaf Muscle) and we had a great time. Seats were pretty awesome, as well, though I don't think you could see us on TV (Cody claims he saw himself after the Rhodes/Sandow match, though). I'll give some thoughts on the matches and also provide a live crowd reaction report.
> 
> We were below the panel, so we got a pretty good view of Vickie/Booker/HBK. Loud HBK chant before the show started which he acknowledged. Crowd was about 50-75% full when the pre-show started, as people were still filing in (doors were supposed to open at 3:30 but it was closer to 4). Michael Cole got booed pretty heavily, as was expected. JBL got a great pop. Jerry did as well.
> ...


:lmao One of my friends said something similar about Heyman and everyone was like "no, stfu".

Awesome review though. The thoughts of where this Bryan/Trips/Orton stuff could go intrigues me so much more than those Trips/Vince/Stephanie segments did for the last month.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> cena/punk mitb is. Cena/bryan ( Only watched once) is a tad overrated
> 
> OK :lol I know this will never be talked about because of the two main events, but christan/del rio is very very good, and probably del rio 2nd best match in wwe. It shits on their ladder match in 2011. ****1/4
> 
> ...


You think Christian vs Del Rio was better than Cena vs Punk on Raw? That was my number 2 for MotY behind Punk vs Taker at Mania. I'm not even a Punk mark, he's just had 3 really really good matches and a bunch of other pretty good ones as well. I still give WotY to DBry but Punks atleast made it interesting after last nights gem.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> And one last thing, the way they've booked and elevated Orton to the top of EVERYTHING the last two months has really, really pissed me off. Essentially they've done an excellent job in turning him heel because I fucking hate the guy now and I used to be a HUGE fan. You wanna turn someone heel? Have him do absolutely nothing and become WWE Champion, crushing arguably the most over guy in the company on the biggest night of his career. Can't wait to root against his boring ass next month. :lol
> 
> Kudos WWE.


It was a brilliant ending to Summerslam.

Like you, I used to be a huge fan of Orton but I haven't liked the guy since 2006. But last night I marked out hard for Randy Orton and Triple H, it was surreal, it was just such a well done turn and swerve imo, I loved it. 

Can't wait for tonight's RAW.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Honestly, 10 minutes into Bryan/Cena I was still burned out from Punk/Lesnar.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Here's the question I have after las night, wtf is Punk gonna do now? Most agree he should stay away from the WWE title scene for a while and let DBry chase Orton, does that mean Punk is gonna have another side feud with someone? If so who is it? Does WWE consider elevating the importance of the WHC by having Punk feud again with ADR? (Doubtful, I really really hope this doesn't happen, but it IS a possibility). Does he feud with Axel? Please god no. Does Heyman introduce a new client for Punk to go against? I'm really interested in where he goes from here....

Atleast we are locked into a great feud for the WWE championship with DBry and Orton/Trips/Vince?. Pretty stoked to see Raw tonight, I hope we get some clarity.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Btw, did anyone else catch Punk dropping the f bomb during the PPV. I'm not so sure if it came across live TV since I had a Sky Sport stream, which I'm, sure was running on a few seconds delay.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Punk is going to continue his feud with Lesnar. There is a video on WWE.com where he says his feud with Heyman is far from over. I'm assuming he is going to say that he had Brock beat and it took Heyman to help Lesnar win the match so now he wants Lesnar in a match where there are no outside interferences (i.e. HIAC). That or feud with the Shield.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Punk is in a sticky situation right now indeed. Rumour also has it that Lesnar used up a lot of his dates. So, I'm not sure what's gonna happen tonight. Is Lesnar even gonna be there? I mean he has to be. But where do we go from there? Obviously, they're not gonna waste Lesnar on a B PPV. If Rock couldn't increase B PPV buyrates, then no one can.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Well Extreme Rules is a B level PPV and Brock has appeared there twice. And there is still Survivor Series this year which is apprantly still big. HIAC seems the perfect PPV to end a rivalry like this one though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Hopefully Punk does not enter a feud with Axel


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Lesnar HIAC could work, and I'd be more than happy to see it.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I would book Lesnar for the Rumble and leave Extreme rules out. And Brock is not advertised for any RAW Show this year left.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SonoShion said:


> I would book Lesnar for the Rumble and leave Extreme rules out. And Brock is not advertised for any RAW Show this year left.


 See you next year Brock.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WTF ELSE DO YOU DO WITH ALL THIS TIME, BROCK?

(other than sable)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punk can get even with Heyman at Night of Champions. A handicap match against Axel and Heyman. He defeats Axel clean then gets his hands on Heyman and destroys him to the point we don't see him for the rest of 2013.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Punk can get even with Heyman at Night of Champions. A handicap match against Axel and Heyman. He defeats Axel clean then gets his hands on Heyman and destroys him to the point we don't see him for the rest of 2013.


Anything but no rematch huh? unk2

I know you're one of the certified Punk haters around but you surely gotta give the this boy credits for last night for hanging in with Brock and do what HHH wasn't capable of, bringing the best out of Brock and delivering a damn classic.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Punk can get even with Heyman at Night of Champions. A handicap match against Axel and Heyman. He defeats Axel clean then gets his hands on Heyman and destroys him to the point we don't see him for the rest of 2013.



^ I can honestly see that happening. I don't see Brock wrestling again this year.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

While I'm all for Orton's heel turn, i just don't know if I could sit through another "My name..is Randy Orton" promo. 

2013 heel Orton needs to be something completely different from any of his previous heel runs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ He hasn't done any "My name is Randy Orton" promos since last year. That's just nitpicking at its finest.



SonoShion said:


> Anything but no rematch huh? unk2
> 
> I know you're one of the certified Punk haters around but you surely gotta give the this boy credits for last night for hanging in with Brock and do what HHH wasn't capable of, bringing the best out of Brock and delivering a damn classic.


It's MOTY for me but I'm simply not a fan of rematches. Didn't like it when HHH did it (even though Extreme Rules turned out to be their best match and the first one I'd consider great) and don't want it done again. Brock has a limited amount of appearances in his contract so he should be used better instead of facing the same opponents again. Yesterday was the perfect match they could have, now it's time to move on from that.

Even if it was Orton who lost to Brock in a match of that quality, I wouldn't want a rematch. We had enough of it this year at Wrestlemania, time to utilize the part-timers more effectively instead of sharing the spotlight between the same 6 guys.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Boy, I do not envy creative tonight. They have a lot on their plate. I wonder what's the opening segment.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Punk and Axel seems logical. There isn't really anything else for him unless they involve him in the title situation. Maybe we'll get Punk/Bryan vs. HHH/Orton later this year? But right now the focus is clearly on Bryan, Orton and the McMahons.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Punk and Axel seems logical. There isn't really anything else for him unless they involve him in the title situation. Maybe we'll get Punk/Bryan vs. HHH/Orton later this year? But right now the focus is clearly on Bryan, Orton and the McMahons.


What about :cena4

Btw, anyone has an update on his surgery?


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Boy, I do not envy creative tonight. They have a lot on their plate. I wonder what's the opening segment.







Doubtful but I would lose my shit.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Boy, I do not envy creative tonight. They have a lot on their plate. I wonder what's the opening segment.


My thoughts exactly. They have a lot of anticipation going into tonight's show. They better not fuck it up.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I can just picture Vince going, "No goddammit! Keep Tons of Funk out of this shit tonight! We gotta give them Wade Barrett" :vince


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If the show kicks off with the clock ticking, I'm gonna jump up and down in my room. I love that "Line in the Sand" song so much.

SummerSlam RATINGZ:

RVD vs Ambrose - ★★¼
Wyatt vs Kane - ★¼
Cody vs Sandow - ★★★
Del Rio vs Christian - ★★★½
Natalya vs Brie - N/A
BROCK vs Punk - ★★★★½
Ziggler/Kaitlyn vs Langston/AJ - ★ (another piss break that I didn't need anymore)
Bryan vs Cena - ★★★★¼
Orton vs Bryan - A million stars

Overall: ★★★★ out of ★★★★★ (The undercard wasn't all that but I don't care about them and had no expectations so whatever. The main events matter the most and they all DELIVERED big time. Everything I wanted happened and a half. Brock won, Cena lost clean, Orton cashed in!)


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> What about :cena4
> 
> Btw, anyone has an update on his surgery?





> - As noted earlier, John Cena is expected to take some time off to get his "baseball" sized elbow taken care of. Usually when Cena takes time off for an injury, he blows through the recovery and is back earlier then expected, but that may not be the case now.
> 
> It's believed that Cena will actually take time off and let his body recover 100% this time around.


PWinsider.

Isn't Survivor Series this year in Boston? Might taking time off until then.


----------



## NearFall (Nov 27, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Punk and Axel seems logical. There isn't really anything else for him unless they involve him in the title situation. *Maybe we'll get Punk/Bryan vs. HHH/Orton later this year?* But right now the focus is clearly on Bryan, Orton and the McMahons.


I really like that idea. It would lead to a good match and has plenty of opportunity for storyline progression. Although Punk should only be involved with the main scene for a match or so like this. As you say, the focus should remain as it is current: McMahons/Orton VS Bryan.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> If the show kicks off with the clock ticking, I'm gonna jump up and down in my room. I love that "Line in the Sand" song so much.
> 
> SummerSlam RATINGZ:
> 
> ...



You know what's funny? I don't even know you, but one of the last things I read before turning SummerSlam was a post by you saying how pissed you'd be if Punk wins and Orton doesn't cash if after needlessly being left off the card. After that gut punch in the end with DBry losing the title and Orton standing triumphant in the ring with the WWE title after doing nothing to earn it (don't get me wrong, I'm happy Orton turned heel, but I'd be lying if I told you it felt good to see Bryan work so hard to reach the mountaintop only to have it taken away in 18 seconds, again) I thought to myself "well, I know atleast 1 person who is really, really happy tonight." Lmao.

I AM pretty excited for the potential of Bryan chasing Orton for the belt, it's always so much more enjoyable for the baby face to chase the heel (as long as there is a payoff in the end, of course). Even though the only match I've seen from these 2 was not all that great, I feel like if they are given the proper stage and build they could have a GREAT match. We shall see.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hmm, what about Team Punk vs Team Orton for Survior Series? It's a good way to add Bryan in the mix as well (Obviously part of Team Punk) and continue their feud without having really having them in direct competition with one another.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Although I marked out for ziggler's cash in, last night was BADASS. I just saw it damn, and for a roster that NEEDS heels we got two although am I the only one who thinks Randy's turn wasnt that certain


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> I AM pretty excited for the potential of Bryan chasing Orton for the belt, it's always so much more enjoyable for the baby face to chase the heel (as long as there is a payoff in the end, of course). Even though the only match I've seen from these 2 was not all that great, I feel like if they are given the proper stage and build they could have a GREAT match. We shall see.


Which match between them have you seen and disliked? They had some solid matches on Raw a few months ago before a very good street fight main event on Raw, all in the space of about 3 weeks. Not sure if you're referring to one of those or another match between the two.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> You know what's funny? I don't even know you, but one of the last things I read before turning SummerSlam was a post by you saying how pissed you'd be if Punk wins and Orton doesn't cash if after needlessly being left off the card. After that gut punch in the end with DBry losing the title and Orton standing triumphant in the ring with the WWE title after doing nothing to earn it (don't get me wrong, I'm happy Orton turned heel, but I'd be lying if I told you it felt good to see Bryan work so hard to reach the mountaintop only to have it taken away in 18 seconds, again) I thought to myself "well, I know atleast 1 person who is really, really happy tonight." Lmao.
> 
> I AM pretty excited for the potential of Bryan chasing Orton for the belt, it's always so much more enjoyable for the baby face to chase the heel (as long as there is a payoff in the end, of course). Even though the only match I've seen from these 2 was not all that great, I feel like if they are given the proper stage and build they could have a GREAT match. We shall see.


Hehe, it feels great when everybody else is pissed while I'm enjoying it. 

And I wouldn't worry about what they do with Bryan. He beat Cena CLEAN in the most decisive manner. If he'll just be there to put over heel HHH and Orton, they wouldn't put in this much effort to build him up.

Also rewatched the match again as well as the aftermath. It was so awesome once again! I go with ★★★★½ for this one too. Two excellent main event matches. Don't think we've had a double main event this good since Backlash 2004 where both matches are even and around the ★★★★½+ mark.

Oh what a difference a year makes. Last year I was completely worn out on the shows and my interest had reached an all-time low, now I'm the most enthusiastic about it I've been since the summer of Punk.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Still can't believe i was there live for everything last night, truly a memorable experience.

Seeing Daniel Bryan win the WWE Title was the greatest thing I'd had ever seen, I was jumping up and down uncontrollably & ever embraced in a hug with HayleySabin


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Maple Leaf Muscle said:


> Still can't believe i was there live for everything last night, truly a memorable experience.
> 
> Seeing Daniel Bryan win the WWE Title was the greatest thing I'd had ever seen, I was jumping up and down uncontrollably & ever embraced in a hug with HayleySabin


Haha I heard, how good were you guys seats ? TLK said you were right behind hbk, not ashamed to say I would of died


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Haha I heard, how good were you guys seats ? TLK said you were right behind hbk, not ashamed to say I would of died


We were actually in front of HBK & the panel haha, they had to turn around to see us.

When the panel wasn't on the air everyone cheered Vickie but when they were on the air everyone booed her like normal :lmao


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What was the reaction like for the aftermath? Were there any boos? Or for the most part was everyone speechless?

Also, please tell me you also had something to do with that "We want tables" chant during the Divas match. Most epic chant ever lol. It seems like the new trend in wrestling is to chant the announcers name during a boring match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> Which match between them have you seen and disliked? They had some solid matches on Raw a few months ago before a very good street fight main event on Raw, all in the space of about 3 weeks. Not sure if you're referring to one of those or another match between the two.



All I saw was the street fight on Raw, and while not bad by any means, it wasn't GREAT either. That's probably to be expected, Danielson is not best showcased in a street fight, I get way more enjoyment by watching him in between the ropes. If he adds a little brawling to his future matches with Orton (assuming they have some) I think it could be great. Orton can brawl AND wrestle pretty well, when he's on his game there are very few better than him, and when DBry is on his game NO ONE is better than him, right now atleast. Pumped for this feud and pumped for Raw tonight.

Edit- I've seen some people on here say the match Lesnar had with Punk last night tops his ER match with Cena. I just rewatched SS again a little earlier, and I'm going to rewatch ER right now, Ill let you know my opinion on the matter shortly. Watching last night I probably would agree the Punk match was better, but that easily could have been because I was so psyched for them delivering on such a brilliant build. We shall see.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> What was the reaction like for the aftermath? Were there any boos? Or for the most part was everyone speechless?
> 
> Also, please tell me you also had something to do with that "We want tables" chant during the Divas match. Most epic chant ever lol. It seems like the new trend in wrestling is to chant the announcers name during a boring match.


Everyone was pretty much speechless because they swerved the hell out of us with the epic celebration for Daniel Bryan 

It started on the opposite side of the building from me, but i did join in on the tables and announcers chants


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

After sleeping on it, I definitely won't give either main event five stars, but I think I have SS13 in my top 15 WWE events ever. Punk/Lesnar was everything Cena/Lesnar was, except far less bloodshed but a much better babyface performance and the right man won. I really hope Bryan continues doing that superplex-recoil thing he did last night.

Updated Top 10:

1. Punk/Lesnar
2. Punk/Taker
3. Punk/Cena
4. Ziggler/ADR
5. Bryan/Cena
6. Shield/Hell No-Kingston
7. Punk/Jericho
8. Shield/Team Sell No
9. Regal/Ohno
10. Bryan/Cesaro

Need I also remind all of you that we still have Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 Falls to look forward to.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

One thing I must say about Punk/Lesnar is that it proved that you don't need blood and tons of weapons to do a NO-DQ match. All the match had was one chair. The NO-DQ stip just gave then some leeway in terms of brawling on the outside and what not. Also, it made submissions intriguing since there were no rope breaks.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> One thing I must say about Punk/Lesnar is that it proved that you don't need blood and tons of weapons to do a NO-DQ match. All the match had was one chair. The NO-DQ stip just gave then some leeway in terms of brawling on the outside and what not. Also, it made submissions intriguing since there were no rope breaks.


I loved the submissions in that match. Brock sells them so well and the triangle choke part was intense.

:lmao I didn't hear the "we want tables" chant but that's fucking awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> After sleeping on it, I definitely won't give either main event five stars, but I think I have SS13 in my top 15 WWE events ever. Punk/Lesnar was everything Cena/Lesnar was, except far less bloodshed but a much better babyface performance and the right man won. I really hope Bryan continues doing that superplex-recoil thing he did last night.
> 
> Updated Top 10:
> 
> ...


My list is almost identical to yours, but I have Bryan vs Cena ahead of Ziggler ADR.

No, you don't NEED tons of weapons and blood to make a no DQ match great, but imagine what that match would have been if it was held in 2004? The blood definitely would have added to Punks already amazing baby face performance, and a nice stiff chair shot to the dome of Lesnar by Punk, or Lesnar F5iing Punk threw a table, or any of that shit could only help that match, not hurt it. I think blood and weapons, if used very sparingly, can really send already great matches over the top and turn them into classics (think Cena vs Brock at ER, the blood took a great match and turned it into a 5star affair in a lot of people's minds).

That said, not once, not one single time during the Punk match did I think to myself "oh I wish Punk was bleeding now" or "man if only that had been a shot to the head instead of the back". Never. That's how good that match was, I was totally absorbed to the point that thinking how it could be better would seem blasphemous. I only mention my opinion on it now because when you brought that up it got me to thinking about it. Can't say it enough, great night all around to be a wrestling fan.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Watching the two Summerslam main events now. Just got done Lesnar/Punk.

****3/4

Fuck, what a match. It had everything. Crowd involvement, storytelling, perfect ring work. There's not one flaw in this match. The two, or I should say three, played their parts to fucking perfection. Easily one of if not the best David/Goliath matches I've seen. As much as I love Undertaker/Punk, It is as I expected, my MOTY. Also that pop when Punk hit the GTS, holy *shit*. 

I would kill for a rematch. Hopefully in the cell, but chances are slim.

Bryan/Cena up next.

EDIT:

Also, Lesnar/Punk is _miles _ahead of every Lesnar match since he has come back. This is what a Lesnar match should be like.

1. Punk - ****3/4
2. Cena - ***3/4

I won't even get into the worst big time trilogy of matches ever, known as HHH/Lesnar.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ambrose/RVD- **3/4
Kane/Wyatt- *1/2
Cody/Sandow- ***1/4
Christia /ADR- ***3/4
Brock/Punk- ****1/2
Mixed Tag- *
Bryan/Cena- ****3/4

What an amazing PPV, damn the finnish of the ME was great. Full review tomorrpw, when I am fully awake


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Watching the two Summerslam main events now. Just got done Lesnar/Punk.
> 
> ****3/4
> 
> ...


I just finished rewatching ER12 to get some perspective, and I have to agree with you, partially. Yes the Punk Lesnar match was undoubtedly better than Cena Lesnar, but I wouldn't say MILES better. For me it's

Lesnar vs Punk ****1/2
Cena vs Lesnar ****.

Now, I understand for some people psychology and story telling is more important than work rate and actual match quality, so I can understand to some extent why Cena vs Lesnar causes some people to just mark the fuck out. That's just not my preference,I love back and forth action mixed in with my psychology and story telling, and Punk vs Lesnar delivers in just about every way possible. For me, if it makes any sense, I'd rather watch Angle vs Benoit go at it all day over Lesnar vs Cena, it's just what I find to be more entertaining. 

Punk Lesnar also had one of the best builds WWE has done in a while, and the hype video package they did was just outstanding, I got so pumped up just watching that 3 minute video.....please WWE, we don't ask for much, give us Punk vs Lesnar HiaC, I'm begging you. If anything can come within even sniffing distance of the magic HBK and Taker made in their Cell match, it's those two. Please.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Unless they revisit the feud after Mania, looks like that was it. IMO, no chance of Brock working again this year, let alone Vince paying him for any 'extra appearances' 

I so want this feud to continue though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Unless they revisit the feud after Mania, looks like that was it. IMO, no chance of Brock working again this year, let alone Vince paying him for any 'extra appearances'
> 
> I so want this feud to continue though.



Don't break my heart with your logic! 

P.s. I love your new sig/avatar, I've been on a bit of a Liger binge lately, I watched his match on the Benoit set from the Super J cup and it just opened up a whole new world of awesomeness for me. He might have surpassed Tiger Mask as my favorite Japanese wrestler ever.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Just saw the Punk v Lesnar match. Not a huge fan. *** 1/4.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Just saw the Punk v Lesnar match. Not a huge fan. *** 1/4.


Fuck off, prick!

... I mean... that's... nice... opinion... yeh...



On a serious note though, care to elaborate? I'd definitely be interested in hearing a reason for not liking the match that match since everyone else has loved the match to some extent.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Dave Meltzer gave the match a ***3/4?

unk3


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Meltzer is a piece of shit, just like his ratingz


----------



## Jammy (Jan 3, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Fuck off, prick!
> 
> ... I mean... that's... nice... opinion... yeh...
> 
> ...


Believe it or not, I didn't like the match as much because of Heyman, I thought this time he detracted from the match, one distraction is okay, but Punk looked stupid turning away from Brock fucking Lesnar every 2 minutes. I get that this was an excuse to keep Punk strong, but it looked ridiculous, so did his repeated counters to Brock's every move towards the end. Props to Punk for taking some serious hits.

Brock is such a fucking beast, at this point in his career every action he does in the ring looks great. Brock walking around the ring is entertaining in itself.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bryan D. said:


> Dave Meltzer gave the match a ***3/4?
> 
> unk3


THE THIRD HEEL TURN TO COME OFF THE BACK OF SUMMERSLAM! BIG DAVE TURNS HEEL ON CM PUNK MATCHES!

:meltzer


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock/Punk & Punk/Jericho better than Brock/Punk.

I can see this is going to be one of THOSE matches that will never get the love that it deserves.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Still haven't seen Punk/Lesnar and Cena/Bryan. Just got done with Christian/Del Rio and that was really good. I'll probably do a little write up of the show when I'm done if laziness doesn't get the better of me. It's been an easy watch so far.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> Fuck off, prick!
> 
> ... I mean... that's... nice... opinion... yeh...
> 
> ...


I will. Just give me some time because I'm watching the Bryan v Cena match right now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Also, I find it funny how 10 years later and Randy Orton is still just a pawn in Triple H's world. From Evolution, to getting the shovel at Unforgiven 2004, to getting the shovel AGAIN at Wrestleania XXV, Orton shalt always live in the shadow of the game.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Rock/Punk & Punk/Jericho better than Brock/Punk.
> 
> I can see this is going to be one of THOSE matches that will never get the love that it deserves.


The real issue is Brock/HHH Cage being ahead of Punk/Brock.

Oh well, it's Dave Meltzer. He's always right and everyone else either agrees with him or they're wrong.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> The real issue is Brock/HHH Cage being ahead of Punk/Brock.
> 
> Oh well, it's Dave Meltzer. He's always right and everyone else either agrees with him or they're wrong.


Brock/HHH III is a million times better than Punk/Rock and Punk/Jericho.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Bryan D. said:


> Dave Meltzer gave the match a ***3/4?
> 
> unk3


Did it really? Ridiculous.

Ah well, doesn't change a thing. I don't expect a match to be any better than that one this year.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wasn't a big fan of Brock/Trips III but I'd totally put it over Rock/Punk matches. However I'd put just about anything over those.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Also, I find it funny how 10 years later and Randy Orton is still just a pawn in Triple H's world. From Evolution, to getting the shovel at Unforgiven 2004, to getting the shovel AGAIN at Wrestleania XXV, Orton shalt always live in the shadow of the game.


That harsh, harsh truth bomb.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Honestly, I'd put the build to Cena/Lesnar way ahead of Punk/Lesnar. Still can't forget how awesome that brawl on RAW was between Cena and Lesnar. Everyone earned a paycheck that night, that's for sure.

Wait, Melzter gave Punk/Lesnar ***3/4? It probably didn't have enough chop and elbow offs. Oh yeah and lots of "Hiyah!!"


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Brock/HHH III is a million times better than Punk/Rock and Punk/Jericho.


Punk/Jericho>>>Punk/Rock>>>>>>Brock/HHH III.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I can see this is going to be one of THOSE matches that will never get the love that it deserves.


Maybe in Meltzers eyes but as a whole, Brock/Punk is getting a shit ton of love and will continue to do so.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Sandrone said:


> Punk/Jericho>>>Punk/Rock>>>>>>Brock/HHH III.


That.

Nothing comes close to the shittyness that is Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Meltzer hasnt given his star ratings yet. He will on Thursday. On his radio show he said that Brock V Punk was better then Cena V DB


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Bryan D. trolling hard then.

Thanks for the update, TCM.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Honestly, I'd put the build to Cena/Lesnar way ahead of Punk/Lesnar. Still can't forget how awesome that brawl on RAW was between Cena and Lesnar. Everyone earned a paycheck that night, that's for sure.
> 
> Wait, Melzter gave Punk/Lesnar ***3/4? It probably didn't have enough chop and elbow offs. Oh yeah and lots of "Hiyah!!"


Not enough Tokyo Dome.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Metzler and Alvarez thought Brock/Punk was better than Cena/Bryan

No ratings yet


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Where's Rock316AE when you need him?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Trips/Lesnar series is just something that never clicked for me. Might be because I disliked the storyline from the start, but I just wasn't overly big on it. Wasn't my style.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Since when is ***3/4 a bad rating.......?

I know Meltzer did supposedly say Kane/Wyatt was probably the worst match he's seen all year.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Where's Rock316AE when you need him?


 I remember a lot of people rated the Rock/Punk Rumble match at least a *** or more in first viewing but now almost everyone hates it. You're still one of the very few posters on here who still rates it at a 3 star rating. 

It's far from a DUD though, IMO.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Not sure if anybody mentioned this before but I thought I should mention this pretty unpopular statement; Ambrose has been fucking horrible as a singles performer, and easily the inferior member of the Shield since it's inception. All of his PPV matches have been AWFUL, while his TV matches have been BLEH and even his match with the fucking UNDERTAKER wasn't that great.

Reigns has been good while Rollins has been OH GAWD AMAZIN'. Hopefully we get Henry/Rollins at some point <3.

& Rock/Punk I... I'm not even getting into that one anymore, fuck it.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Interested in seeing what Meltzer does actually give Lesnar/Punk.

Also have to just note the multiple little quotes from Lesnar and Punk last night were just gold. 

"You're my little Punk bitch!"

"Where's your cup now, UFC boy?"

:lol


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Its funny Ambrose was getting all of that hype.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

THAT'S MY MANAGER >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

:brock


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I agree with THE BEAST about Ambrose. Hes the better talker of the group but his singles matches have been horrible thus far. I even predicted in the Ambrose vs RVD thread that their match wouldn't be any good. These two wrestling each other wouldn't be something you'd expect to all that great because their wrestling styles just doesn't mesh well together.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

So WM 30 looks like.....

Bryan V HHH?
Punk V Lesnar II?
Cena V Taker?

Shit, I dont know. But as I'm going, if thats the card they build towards I'll be a very happy man.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> So WM 30 looks like.....
> 
> Bryan V HHH?
> Punk V Lesnar II?
> ...


I would be okay with that, and it definitely seems possible. Lesnar/Taker and Cena/Punk are also possible.

What would be the title match? I assume Punk will win the Rumble this year, so I can see Lesnar/Punk being for the belt at that stage. And of course Cena/Punk would be for the belt if it does happen.

Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Taker and Bryan/HHH definitely don't need the title. Either way, we're in for a stellar card unless they fuck something up along the way.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> So WM 30 looks like.....
> 
> Bryan V HHH?
> Punk V Lesnar II?
> ...


Well it's going to be that or the other card doing the rounds lately.

Bryan/Punk
Taker/Lesnar
Cena/HHH

I know what one I'd prefer.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think I'd like the Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Punk and Bryan/Trips one most. However I'll never pass up a Punk/Bryan match.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I would be okay with that, and it definitely seems possible. Lesnar/Taker and Cena/Punk are also possible.
> 
> What would be the title match? I assume Punk will win the Rumble this year, so I can see Lesnar/Punk being for the belt at that stage. And of course Cena/Punk would be for the belt.
> 
> Cena/Taker, Lesnar/Taker and Bryan/HHH definitely don't need the title.


Well Bryan v HHH kind of does if they are doing the whole title chase thing.

HHH as WWE champion going in and DB makes him tap.

Brock could win the world title (and elevate that beautiful belt) Punk wins the rumble and beats Lesnar for it.

And they can do a Beniot and Eddie thing at the end.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Well Bryan v HHH kind of does if they are doing the whole title chase thing.
> 
> HHH as WWE champion going in and DB makes him tap.
> 
> ...


Holy shit that would be amazing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk/Lesnar ruled the world. I don't think it's on the same level of Cena/Lesnar but it was amazing in its own right. 



The Sandrone said:


> Punk/Jericho>>>Punk/Rock>>>>>>Brock/HHH III.


Nah no way.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Downloading the show right now. Can't wait to see how it is with commentary. Hope I see myself :mark:

There are honestly so many different ways they could go with Mania 30, and that's what makes this it so exciting


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH/Lesnar III >>>>>> Punk/Jericho >> Rock/Punk

Would kill for HHH/Bryan. Wonder why HHH/Cena has been rumored.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Downloading the show right now. Can't wait to see how it is with commentary. Hope I see myself :mark:
> 
> There are honestly so many different ways they could go with Mania 30, and that's what makes this it so exciting


Yup. Reminds me of WrestleMania 18.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know, it's the WWE we're talking about here, and when HHH is involved (as much as I love him) things usually get really all over the place from time to time. I know that Orton is merely a stepping stone for Bryan until he gets the big match with HHH, but they certainly aren't going to stretch that out for SEVEN FUCKING MONTHS. My thoughts are that HHH keeps screwing Bryan over, leading to a HHH Vs Bryan bout at either HIAC, Survivor Series, or Battleground or some shit, while Orton moves onto Punk when he's done with Heyman.

Plus, we have to figure where Cena and Taker will fit into all of this. If it's Brock-Taker or Cena-Taker, it has to start SOMEWHERE for fuck sakes. We have seven months to go and probably another 4 before we even have a single clue as to what the possible matchups can be... All I know is that Bryan-HHH and Punk-Brock aren't lasting this long, not since Punk & Bryan are fulltimers.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Redoing the Eddie/Benoit ending with Bryan/Punk would be totally shit. It makes no sense because while Bryan may get his "big moment", Punk has already been champion enough times to last an eternity so he's no longer an underdog. The reason that moment is so memorable is because it was two underdogs finally having their moment on the top of the mountain. Bryan has already been champion but that can be disregarded because he got screwed, Punk on the other hand, had the longest title reign in the modern era so him appearing would be totally random and make it a cheap carbon copy of a genuine moment. Almost a parody.

My favorite WM card would have to be:

HHH/Bryan (WWE Championship)
Rock/Orton (conclusion of the power struggle)
Brock/Taker
Cena/Punk


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

HHH/Bryan is more likely to happen at somewhere like Survivor Series IMO. I know people like to (somewhat) joke about HHH burying people and politicking, but there's no way he's winning the WWE Title any time soon, much less being the champ come Mania. I still think Bryan/Punk or Bryan/Punk/Cena will be the title match, with Bryan finally getting his mammoth win. That leaves either Cena/Taker or Taker/Lesnar depending on which main event they go with. Where that leaves HHH I'm not sure, though it would most likely be something to do with the fallout of the power struggle. HHH/Orton again just for the LOLS?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Random thoughts:

Cena/Lesnar is still better than Punk/Lesnar for my money. Lesnar/Punk was the quintessential WWE Main Event Gimmick match worked greatly and had a great built in story and dynamic with Punk being murdered at every opportunity and having a collection of small hope spots and sequences as the catalyst for a comeback. Cena/Lesnar however just has that unhead of aura of legitimate and authentic violence that is so far removed from what WWE has always presented in its wrestling. Cena's selling and general babyface performance was excellent & it's the best utilisation of Lesnar yet imo: just a destructive monster and you genuinly had no idea how far he'd go with his offence that night. Punk/Lesnar as I imagined was infinitely better in making Lesnar look ferocious and like a true animal instead of just another guy like he was in the HHH series.

Meltzer star ratings discussion again? Yeeesh. Put that poor bastard discussion to rest. It's one bloke's personal opinion, it counts for very little beyond his own taste. As long as you loved Punk/Lesnar more than Cena/Bryan it shouldn't really matter if Meltzer thinks differently. He loves MITB, New Japan main events and other stylistic intricacies that others differ on, it's part and parcel of wrestling and subjectivity.

I'd like Punk/Heyman to continue. They've got a built in story of Heyman taunting Punk relentlessly about being 'The Best' but losing to Rock x2, Cena in February, Taker @ Mania & now Lesnar @ Summerslam. The problem Punk & Bryan have really is how sparse the roster is in terms of guys they can be fed to for interim programs. The money is in Bryan having a prolonged chase rather than doing Bryan/Orton for 3 PPVs in a row, but there's not many people available now who Bryan can feud with who would garner interest. Luckily the crowds love Bryan & Punk relentlessly, but it does leave them handicapped. I think if they can try and have Bryan overcome obstacles to get a rematch they could easily build Punk/Orton as a title match at an upcoming PPV & maybe have Heyman play a part in the finish.

Lesnar/Bryan would be amazing if they could have him show up to again thwart Bryan's chance at redemption. Then again the possibility of running Lesnar/Bryan after Wrestlemania if they give him a big rub could be even more salivating. Punk/Lesnar could easily have a rematch down the line where Punk goes over depending on how they wish to payoff this developing angle of Punk losing big matches. I doubt they have enough time given Lesnar's schedule to book a trilogy of matches (Punk would insist on a rematch but again ultimately fall agonisingly short & take time off before returning), but it should be interesting in the direction they take.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

WWE.com put up an updated top 25 matches in Summerslam history list. Pretty high regard for Punk/Lesnar, and well deserved.

Lesnar/Punk at #4
Bryan/Cena at #14

http://www.wwe.com/classics/25-greatest-wwe-summerslam-matches-of-all-time/


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Cena/Bryan (8/18/13)*:

It's definitely a bit more of a spottier match in terms of having an abundance of eye catching spots throughout the match rather than building to a crescendo, but it really was a case of two smart workers building well to the bigger moments to the point where they added to the match with enough depth and build in between the spots to make them matter. Cena's spot calling was atrocious but they managed to mostly rescue any other slight miscues without too much trouble. It was definitely a lot more high octane and bomb throwing compared to Punk/Cena @ MITB but they played up on the story of Cena continually being unable to outwrestle Bryan and always falling victim to a counter and I loved little touches like Bryan winning a small sequence via countering into the STF, and how it later added as a believeable nearfall later in the match. Spider Suplex and the bridging Germans were a nice touch from Bryan to incorporate more unique offence into his repertoire and Cena's lariat & Liger Bomb were also unexpected touches. Uppercut cutoff to Bryan's dive looked nasty, the slap exchange leading to Bryan dominating and overwhelming Cena was such a great demonstration of how strike exchange sequences can develop a built in match story & the final sequence with Bryan ultimately outwrestling Cena in countering the AA, winning the crucial follow up sequence with the kick and then delivering the crucial KO blow was such a brilliant ending. Cena's selling and performance was very good again I thought with how he reacted and played the role of company ace trying to repel Bryan's dogged determination to usurp his position and there were a few strong moments of him going back to the elbow during the closing stages that I appreciated. Bryan's spurts of offence and general performance was what we've come to expect from him. He's definitely a lot more style than substance in his current role compared to his longer ROH matches, but he's excelling in a more sprint orientated role and still knows how to accentuate the little aspects of matches to hold these sorts of matches together into something substantial.


Hard to say which match was better overall. I think the story and layout was stronger in Punk/Lesnar, but there was genuine emotion in Cena/Bryan which was hard to overlook and both matches managed to craft great matches out of admittedly flawed styles. I do think it'll be hard for Punk/Lesnar to better their match though, even if Heyman's involvement could be downgraded in a return match, whereas Cena/Bryan for me could still produce a stronger match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Cena/Lesnar is still better than Punk/Lesnar for my money. Lesnar/Punk was the quintessential WWE Main Event Gimmick match worked greatly and had a great built in story and dynamic with Punk being murdered at every opportunity and having a collection of small hope spots and sequences as the catalyst for a comeback. Cena/Lesnar however just has that unhead of aura of legitimate and authentic violence that is so far removed from what WWE has always presented in its wrestling. Cena's selling and general babyface performance was excellent & it's the best utilisation of Lesnar yet imo: just a destructive monster and you genuinly had no idea how far he'd go with his offence that night. Punk/Lesnar as I imagined was infinitely better in making Lesnar look ferocious and like a true animal instead of just another guy like he was in the HHH series.


Is Punk/Lesnar your MOTY? And how did you feel about the finishing stretch? Loved the match apart from the final few minutes which I thought strayed away from the aspects that made the bulk of the contest so great, namely Punk's vulnerability and determination and Lesnar's dominance. Too much Heyman for me as well. No problem whatsoever with him costing the match but they could've cut down on the Punk/Heyman interactions a bit.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Nah no way.


Yeah yes way. unk2



> Well Bryan v HHH kind of does if they are doing the whole title chase thing.
> 
> HHH as WWE champion going in and DB makes him tap.
> 
> ...


That would be awesome. Only thing is Punk/Lesnar would have to main event so Punk and Bryan could celebrate to "Cult of Personality". unk5 :bryan


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Is Punk/Lesnar your MOTY? And how did you feel about the finishing stretch? Loved the match apart from the final few minutes which I thought strayed away from the aspects that made the bulk of the contest so great, namely Punk's vulnerability and determination and Lesnar's dominance. Too much Heyman for me as well. No problem whatsoever with him costing the match but they could've cut down on the Punk/Heyman interactions a bit.


I might still have Ziggler/Del Rio above in terms of the execution of the story and character dynamic from both, might need to rewatch Punk/Lesnar though because I'm going off of what I saw live and generally I struggle to remember much when this happens.

The bulk of Punk/Lesnar was great as they stayed true to the story and worked it more like Punk/Joe only with a more unhinged and unstoppable monster for Punk to try and overcome through intelligence and crafting small openings. I adored Heyman's interference on the GTS nearfall, but I did think the finish could have been executed much better. Between them deliberately milking the moment with Punk standing on the chair, dragging a begging Heyman to his feet and motioning for the punch I thought it just lost fact of Punk facing LESNAR and being almost Sting esque in terms of reckless behaviour. Think Seabs said a finish where a momentary distraction/obsession on Punk's part ultimately costing him victory would have worked better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I might still have Ziggler/Del Rio above in terms of the execution of the story and character dynamic from both, might need to rewatch Punk/Lesnar though because I'm going off of what I saw live and generally I struggle to remember much when this happens.
> 
> The bulk of Punk/Lesnar was great as they stayed true to the story and worked it more like Punk/Joe only with a more unhinged and unstoppable monster for Punk to try and overcome through intelligence and crafting small openings. I adored Heyman's interference on the GTS nearfall, but I did think the finish could have been executed much better. Between them deliberately milking the moment with Punk standing on the chair, dragging a begging Heyman to his feet and motioning for the punch I thought it just lost fact of Punk facing LESNAR and being almost Sting esque in terms of reckless behaviour. Think Seabs said a finish where a momentary distraction/obsession on Punk's part ultimately costing him victory would have worked better.


Yeah, I need to watch Punk/Lesnar again. Right now I feel like I loved Ziggler/Del Rio slightly more. Need to watch that again too actually.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

What match do you think was better guys.

DB V Cena or Punk V Undertaker?

I'll go with the latter myself.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Punk/Lesnar ****1/2
Cena/Bryan ****

I needed to watch Cena/Bryan again though because I missed a couple of minutes. Lesnar/Punk was by far the best Brock match since his return. Here are my ratings for the others.

Cena **3/4
Triple H **1/2, ***1/2, ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/bryan shits on punk/taker IMO, I watched the latter a couple weeks ago for a little streak list and its shcoking how low it went IMO. Its funny how some still think its a classic but to each's own

I really need to watch cena/lesnar again but I truly enjoyed punk/lesnar more, well see. I have ziggler/del rio and punk/lesnar tied as MOTY.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah, I need to watch Punk/Lesnar again. Right now I feel like I loved Ziggler/Del Rio slightly more. Need to watch that again too actually.


I can see an argument that the layout in Punk/Lesnar was stronger in terms of capturing a true babyface/heel dynamic which made the babyface look incredible in his defiance, but I do think all the little touches and attention to detail in building the narrative in Ziggler/Del Rio stood out more to me. Expectations can often play a part here as well as I never would have envisaged Del Rio/Ziggler ever being a match I'd have as working WWE MOTY, whereas Punk/Lesnar had greater expectations given the success of Cena/Lesnar and Punk's presumed willingness to throw himself around to make Lesnar look truly unique and dangerous.

Ziggler's plight and ordeal was probably more sympathetic compared to Punk's battle, however I think Punk definitely managed to create that frenetic atmosphere with the crowd begging for him to overcome the monster. That probably stems in Punk's charisma and connection with the crowd moreso than being necessarily a better performance than Ziggler's.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> What match do you think was better guys.
> 
> DB V Cena or Punk V Undertaker?
> 
> I'll go with the latter myself.


Taker/Punk fairly easily. No diss to Bryan/Cena though. Amazing match in it's own right.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Taker/Punk is also easily better than Bryan/Cena for me, even if they have the same star rating :meltzer. The pacing in Taker/Punk is the best out of any match this year in the WWE. It also felt a lot more heated than Cena/Bryan, but a lot of it does have to do with my bias towards the two competitors in the Punk/Taker match. I don't have a problem if anyone picks Bryan/Cena over it. That match was beautiful.

DAT BRYAN/STEPH SEGMENT. I think it's safe to say that Bryan is the most over guy on the roster, even including part-timers. Yes, Bryan is more over than :rock


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched Brock/Punk again. Holy shit. Even better than I remember it being live. When you're in the arena you're so caught up in the atmosphere that you tend to miss some of the intangibles. Watching it on video just now was incredible. Everything worked perfectly. I legitimately can't find any flaws. Some say that the Heyman interference is damaging. I don't think so at all. Heyman strives to make Punk's life a living hell, and he finished the deed by costing him the match against Lesnar. Plus, Punk has been dying to get his hands on Heyman, so the moment he finally does, it's no wonder he took the time to relish it and completely was lost in his own madness, giving Lesnar the opening.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Sandrone said:


> Fuck off, prick!
> 
> ... I mean... that's... nice... opinion... yeh...
> 
> ...


Okay, I guess I should start off by describing where my expectations and where my head was when the match began. You most likely haven't seen my exchange with Pyro a week ago. Basically, I said realistically Brock would fuck Punk in the ass, and in response Pyro said he didn't care about realism but rather what's more entertaining and better. I wrote a long response, and in it I made the case that Brock Lesnar, at least the character, is a fucking beast--which is arguably true. Brock Lesnar gives off the vibe of a beast that can fuck up anything. And when I said realistically Brock (the character) would fuck Punk in the ass, this wasn't just about size, though size does play a part as to why Brock gives off the monster killer vibe. Punk has gone up against big guys before, like Ryback and the Rock. But Brock is different. Joe Rogan has a joke about how if Lesnar wants to fuck you, he's going to fuck you and there's nothing anyone could really do about it. Seriously, if Lesnar came at you the way he acts in the gif before would you not think, "Please don't rape me."
















So, I was hoping for this match give me Brock Lesnar the beast vs CM Punk, the resilient underdog. While you and others may feel it delivered, I don't--at least not the second half of the match. The match felt too even for me, like a regular WWE main event match. I wanted the match to be more like Lesnar v Cena, but it felt more like HHH v Lesnar. 

I really liked the first half of the match. It got over that Lesnar is a beast and had Punk fighting back with all his will and might. My problem is towards the end of the match when Punk starts getting control, around the part where Lesnar has Punk on his hip in a resthold, a headlock if I recall correctly. 

Punk isn't given in. Instead, he stands up slowly and gets out by giving Lesnar two elbows to the ribs. I know this is standard in wrestling, but I expect more considering Lesnar is a huge beast and Punk is the small underdog. Someone like Punk should not get out that easily. If it was like the bear hug spot that happened a little bit before, where Punk kept hammering Lesnar's face and nose hard, then I could believe him getting out of it. Or, if he had gotten out by biting Lesnar ear like he did directly after getting out of the move, then I could believe Lesnar letting go because some small, scrappy psycho just bit his ear. Instead, Punk acted like he didn't have a nearly 300 lbs guy putting pressure on him and just stood up.

Then Punk starts giving Lesnar some kicks and elbows, which weren't the strongest looking. This causes Lesnar to act daze and roll his fist almost in a "lemme at em" manner. I was half expecting Lesnar to pull out of the cliche of swinging blindly at the air, thinking of hoping that Punk would be in front of him. I don't really have a problem with the next 3 minutes. My dislike for the match arises again when Brock puts Punk in a Kimura lock. Lesnar has it on and his putting a lot of pressure in it. He's fucking cranking that arm like the beast he is, he then wraps his legs around Punk and does it even harder. Punk is selling it--but then he gets out of it, real swiftly, like it wasn't a problem. Fuck the fact that he had a dude twice size and with legitimate submission experience twisting his arm with great might. I compare this to a spot in the Bryan v Cena match where Cena is in the Yes! lock, but he's trying his hardest to get out. Cena tries to break apart Bryan's hands, squeeze his head--just struggling to get out, eventually doing so with the use of momentum.

Punk then has Lesnar in a triangle hold and Lesnar is contemplating tapping. After about a minute, he able to get up, lifting Punk with him, and then gives Punk a power bomb. How does Punk react? He no sells it and puts Lesnar in the hold again, applying it as poorly as Cena applies his STF. 

Lesnar gets the upper hand again, but over the course of the next few minutes he does commits some actions I think were very stupid that I didn't like, but I'll fork that up to his character being a stupid brute. Then Punk counters an F5 into a shitty DDT. Punk slaps on the Anaconda Vice on Lesnar, and I can't believe that Lesnar would have a problem countering it. Match ends with Lesnar winning.

IDK, maybe it's just that I expected more from Punk and Lesnar. Maybe it's because I was stupidly hoping for a match like Cena v Lesnar. Either way, I'm not as enchanted with this match as others are. I'll admit that maybe *** 1/4 might be me being a bit negative, and after re-watching the match while writing this out, I guess I can change it to ***3/4. Bryan v Cena was better, imo, though. ****1/2.

Also, I'm one of the people who believes Cena is a great worker (at least when the match is important), but before today I felt Punk was better. I've changed my mind.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The only real issue I saw in Punk/Lesnar was the first elbow drop Punk got looked like he didn't do it right. Clearly not something that effected the match though.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Punk V Lesnar is ***1/2 because Lesnar didn't rape Punk in the middle of the ring.

Meltzer should hire you.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Punk V Lesnar is ***1/2 because Lesnar didn't rape Punk in the middle of the ring.
> 
> Meltzer should hire you.


BROCK SMASH!!! BROCK MAKE DECISIONS!!!

There is a bit on Joe Rogan's most recent comedy special about Lesnar rape.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> What match do you think was better guys.
> 
> DB V Cena or Punk V Undertaker?
> 
> I'll go with the latter myself.




Both have theses as the same rating. ****1/4


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Punk V Lesnar is ***1/2 because Lesnar didn't rape Punk in the middle of the ring.
> 
> Meltzer should hire you.


Swerves on you, because I am Meltzer. :meltzer



-----------------

Also, I liked that Punk went after Heyman. It worked well with the story. Why wouldn't he go after the dude who betrayed him? If anything, I wished he had done more to Heyman.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

My MOTY list thus far:

*1. CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar - Summerslam: ***** *
Watched it again, marked out as much as I did when I watched it the first time. Just an unbelievable match. First 5* since Cena/Punk imo, and it's perfect as I do believe Punk/Lesnar is the best program since that Summer of 2011. Could not find a single flaw.
*2. Undertaker vs. CM Punk - Wrestlemania XXIV: ****1/2*
*3. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan - Summerslam: ****1/2*
*4. John Cena vs. CM Punk - RAW 2/25: ****1/2*
*5. The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston: ****1/2*

Great stuff.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Calling it right now, Orton to come out with a suit. rton2


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Bryan was great. Preferred Lesnar/Punk though. Need to re-watch those two, Ziggler/Del Rio and maybe Punk/Taker to sort out my MOTY list. 2013 (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Not sure if anybody mentioned this before but I thought I should mention this pretty unpopular statement; Ambrose has been fucking horrible as a singles performer, and easily the inferior member of the Shield since it's inception. All of his PPV matches have been AWFUL, while his TV matches have been BLEH and even his match with the fucking UNDERTAKER wasn't that great.


Bout time someone said it. Not sure why people were dubbing him future World Champion material when he's really not that great at all. He's very... unorthodox.  His best work was against Jimmy Jacobs from what I've seen.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

CM Punk GOATing like only he can with that fan in the front row. That was incredible.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Soooo how do you follow up one of the best ppv of all time ? have the dudest of dud raws, HORRIBLE I cant decide if I'm gonna watch dbryan/cena or cena/lesnar ?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I actually think this RAW has been very good.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Punk/Axel brawl was really entertaining.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I just can't help but feel Daniel Bryan is not cut out for a storyline like this.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> CM Punk GOATing like only he can with that fan in the front row. That was incredible.


Yeah, that was great and one of the few good moments on RAW tonight.

Oh well, at least RAW ended well with Bryan getting owned.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brye said:


> That Punk/Axel brawl was really entertaining.


 Agree. It wasn't just a squash as Axel took control of the brawl and only reason Punk recovered was because Axel took too long. Brilliantly worked brawl that was even but the right man won.

I really hope WWE don't mess up with this storyline with the McMahons and Bryan. That was powerful segment to end the night.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This entire Bryan/Orton/HHH/McMahons storyline is booking perfection. This is the pro wrestling that I fell in love. I don't care what anyone says storylines and characters like this IS pro wrestling. Maybe, it's because I grew up during the AE but i could never understand the appeal for a 60 miute match with no backstory whatsoever. 

This is just great stuff. You gotta love the little things like Orton sticking his hand out for a handshake and Stephanie replies with a hug of all things. Seeing Shield beat down Bryan was so sad. Then to have him crawl into the ring while HHH mocks him, even more sad. And then to eat an RKO, FUCK YOU RANDY!! lol.

This is what pro wrestling is all about.


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I just can't help but feel Daniel Bryan is not cut out for a storyline like this.


But if it was Punk and the SAME EXACT thing happened it'd be segment of the year. I know, kid.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Damn, that main event segment was awesome. Made me hate the McMahons/Trips/Orton which is exactly what they want.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Absolutely loved that main event segment. So great to see three of the greatest heels working together. :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

This is sooo similar to the original corporation (I have no problems with that though). Orton is playing the role of corporate Rock, HHH is the new Vince and Shield have the same attire as the Big Bossman and are pretty much bodyguards of this new faction. It was awesome seeing Randy telling the crowd to respect HHH. It's the way he delivered it makes it feel better compared to his 2010-2013 face run.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Triple H/Orton/Shield vs Bryan/Punk/Ziggler/Show/Henry at SSeries, plz.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> It was awesome seeing Randy telling the crowd to respect HHH. It's the way he delivered it makes it feel better compared to his 2010-2013 face run.


Yeah, I was seeing shades of Orton from the Evolution days.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HEEL HHH :mark:

This angle is shaping up nicely and the fact that it's Bryan Danielson who will get the eventual rub and go over Orton and Hunter is like the best thing ever. I swear if Cena comes back and steals his spot I'll never forgive WWE.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> HEEL HHH :mark:
> 
> This angle is shaping up nicely and the fact that it's Bryan Danielson who will get the eventual rub and go over Orton and Hunter is like the best thing ever. I swear if Cena comes back and steals his spot I'll never forgive WWE.


That would be so fucking infuriating.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> HEEL HHH :mark:
> 
> This angle is shaping up nicely and the fact that it's Bryan Danielson who will get the eventual rub and go over Orton and Hunter is like the best thing ever. I swear if Cena comes back and steals his spot I'll never forgive WWE.


If Cena remains the face of the company after all this, I'll be convinced we aren't getting anything new until Vince is dead or Cena retires. They may have fucked up Punk a couple of years ago, but at the very least they had the excuse it just happened out of nowhere and they already had Rock/Cena they HAD to promote as the main event. They have NO excuse with Bryan to fuck this up. He's incredibly over. They clearly planned this for a couple of months at least. He's a great wrestler. He's an amazing sympathetic babyface, and he has a mean streak that can make him badass at times. 

They simply can't fuck this up. And if they do, there's no hope to escape from the Cena era in the near future.


----------



## Sonnen Says (Jun 24, 2013)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Okay, I guess I should start off by describing where my expectations and where my head was when the match began. You most likely haven't seen my exchange with Pyro a week ago. Basically, I said realistically Brock would fuck Punk in the ass, and in response Pyro said he didn't care about realism but rather what's more entertaining and better. I wrote a long response, and in it I made the case that Brock Lesnar, at least the character, is a fucking beast--which is arguably true. Brock Lesnar gives off the vibe of a beast that can fuck up anything. And when I said realistically Brock (the character) would fuck Punk in the ass, this wasn't just about size, though size does play a part as to why Brock gives off the monster killer vibe. Punk has gone up against big guys before, like Ryback and the Rock. But Brock is different. Joe Rogan has a joke about how if Lesnar wants to fuck you, he's going to fuck you and there's nothing anyone could really do about it. Seriously, if Lesnar came at you the way he acts in the gif before would you not think, "Please don't rape me."
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your explanation is so funny. How did Cena/Lesnar give you that? It was just Lesnar destroying Cena and he was walking a lot around the ring and I still cant forget that awful botch when Cena jumped before Lesnar even touches him. Oh also that fake looking superman get up from a Kimura that looked so fake because Lesnar could clearly press in even more because no body even in a fight can get up like that specially if you have Lesnars size. 

Punk/Lesnar was more intense and they didn't waste time. It's your negativity that made you blind enough to not appreciate it. WWE even said it by placing Punk/Lesnar at #4 and Cena/Bryan at #14 because it was clear enough that it was better. 

How can he sell a powerbomb when he already got slammed he doesn't need to sell it when he already has the hold and felt the impact this just adds to the story that Punk had heart in the match, but if Punk still had the hold after the second powerbomb than sir that will look stupid. That wasnt a shitty DDT it worked and Brock didn't do the wave like he did with Eddie. How didn't you like the Kimura reversal it added to the match and it looked legit. Cena/Bryan match was just full of drop kicks and had a stale/slow paced first half of a match. I guess we need drop kicks every 3 min of the match to make it look awesome and still not think it was repetitive and over do. Yeah because Punk should have legitly roundhouse kicked Lesnar :lol, dude it can knock you out I mean look at Daniels one it wasnt even as good as Punk. Also half if not most of the reversals looked awful specially when Cena was obviously putting his head back to the hold over and over again when Bryan was doing the STF it looked so awful and cringeworthy. There was still some moments that I liked from the match but the only think that stands out was the triple German suplexes. Punk/Lesnar had way more moments and I dont know about others but when Punk was holding Pauls tie I was so into that for a moment. 

Most of the guys here and in other wrestling websites have rated Punk/Lesnar high and as a MOTY. And you even made it worse by rating Bryan/Cena ****1/2 :lol.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Sonnen Says said:


> Your explanation is so funny. How did Cena/Lesnar give you that? It was just Lesnar destroying Cena and he was walking around the ring and I still cant forget that awful botch when Cena jumped before Lesnar even touches him. Punk/Lesnar was more intense and they didn't waste time. It's your negativity that made you blind enough to not appreciate it. WWE even said it by placing Punk/Lesnar at #4 and Cena/Bryan at #14 because it was clear enough that it was better.
> 
> How can he sell a powerbomb when he already got slammed he doesn't need to sell it when he already has the hold and felt the impact this just adds to the story that Punk had heart in the match, but if Punk still had the hold after the second powerbomb than sir that will look stupid. That wasnt a shitty DDT it worked and Brock didn't do the wave like he did with Eddie. How didn't you like the Kimura reversal it added to the match and it looked legit. Cena/Bryan match was just full of drop kicks and had a stale/slow paced first half of a match. I guess we need drop kicks every 3 min of the match to make it look awesome and still not think it was repetitive and over do. Also half if not most of the reversals looked awful specially when Cena was obviously putting his head back to the hold over and over again when Bryan was doing the STF it looked so awful and cringeworthy. There was still some moments that I liked from the match but the only think that stands out was the triple German suplexes. Punk/Lesnar had way more moments and I dont know about others but when Punk was holding Pauls tie I was so into that for a moment.
> 
> Most of the guys here and in other wrestling websites have rated Punk/Lesnar high and as a MOTY. And you even made it worse by rating Bryan/Cena ****1/2 :lol.


You really are butthurt over that red rep I gave you, which by the way wasn't because I disagree with what you said but how you said it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Sonnen Says said:


> Your explanation is so funny. How did Cena/Lesnar give you that? It was just Lesnar destroying Cena and he was walking around the ring and I still cant forget that awful botch when Cena jumped before Lesnar even touches him. Punk/Lesnar was more intense and they didn't waste time. It's your negativity that made you blind enough to not appreciate it. WWE even said it by placing Punk/Lesnar at #4 and Cena/Bryan at #14 because it was clear enough that it was better.
> 
> How can he sell a powerbomb when he already got slammed he doesn't need to sell it when he already has the hold and felt the impact this just adds to the story that Punk had heart in the match, but if Punk still had the hold after the second powerbomb than sir that will look stupid. That wasnt a shitty DDT it worked and Brock didn't do the wave like he did with Eddie. How didn't you like the Kimura reversal it added to the match and it looked legit. Cena/Bryan match was just full of drop kicks and had a stale/slow paced first half of a match. I guess we need drop kicks every 3 min of the match to make it look awesome and still not think it was repetitive and over do. Yeah because Punk should have legitly roundhouse kicked Lesnar :lol, dude it can knock you out I mean look at Daniels one it wasnt even as good as Punk. Also half if not most of the reversals looked awful specially when Cena was obviously putting his head back to the hold over and over again when Bryan was doing the STF it looked so awful and cringeworthy. There was still some moments that I liked from the match but the only think that stands out was the triple German suplexes. Punk/Lesnar had way more moments and I dont know about others but when Punk was holding Pauls tie I was so into that for a moment.
> 
> Most of the guys here and in other wrestling websites have rated Punk/Lesnar high and as a MOTY. And you even made it worse by rating Bryan/Cena ****1/2 :lol.


Give it a break man, he's got a right to his own opinion.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I just can't help but feel Daniel Bryan is not cut out for a storyline like this.


But of course Punk would be wouldn't he . You seriously need to stop her hard on hate for Bryan.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

It's not even like I hate Punk v Lesnar. I just felt unsatisfied.


----------



## Sonnen Says (Jun 24, 2013)

Brye said:


> Give it a break man, he's got a right to his own opinion.


Yeah just like I do. He didnt like what I said so I responded. I have no problem in opinions but when you gonna say like "that you didn't say it the way I wanted" it proves that he doesnt want an opinion. It looked like he wanted to force his on me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Didn't see Raw, but read the spoilers. Hoping to watch the show either tonight or tomorrow. Sounds like it was pretty good, not that I expected anything less. 

Wonder if Punk/Axel will develop into a full blown program. Axel's not been doing ANYTHING, which wouldn't be such a big deal if he wasn't INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPION. This could actually be huge for him.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Intercontinental Coalitions don't do anything now. Axel, Barrett, Miz and Christian all didn't do much. Rhodes was the last IC Champion who actually did something. It's stupid but that is how they do it now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Damn, that main event segment was awesome. Made me hate the McMahons/Trips/Orton which is exactly what they want.


(Y)

Absolutely. Easy to dislike the heels and root on the babyface. Loving the start. RAW tonight on the whole was as entertaining as I expected. The Sin Cara moment only made things that much sweet. WORTHLESS. :lmao


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

True that about the recent IC champs, Dark Church. I guess since they put Axel with Heyman I expected him to be relevant.

So, I just watched the last segment of Raw. HOLY SHIT. From Vince's "GIVE IT UP FOR THE GAME" mark, Trips' dickish smirk, the promo which included "Bryan's a gifted little technician" lol) Orton's brief promo which included "Show this man the respect he deserves", and finally the icing on the cake: Trips going full dick heel when Bryan was reeling from the Shield attack and Triple H made him climb into the ring and basically treated him like a dog. So terrific. 

Side note: I hope Orton either keeps him promos brief like he did tonight, or really goes full heel with his material, because his delivery is still not so great. Minor quibble though. Especially when he's got Vince and Hunter to talk for him.

Oh yeah, so Sin Cara's injured again? :lmao in a fpalm kind of way.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm preferring Triple H as the lead mouthpiece with a sentence or two from Orton to draw some ire/heat from the audience. That aspect of his game waved bye-bye long ago. Letting Triple H being a dick to antagonize is the better route. It's why it worked out so well tonight. Legit lol'ed big time when Trips said he checks his ego at the door. Oh man. He knew that one would get a reaction from fans. I still don't have any interest in the four heels entirely, but hey, it's going well on the start. If it remains along these lines, I suppose I can't have any negatives with it.

Can't believe I didn't mention it earlier: CM Punk bashing the fat guy = highlight of the night.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

http://issincarainjured.info/

Can't wait for this to update.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

How does he have a job? Rhetorical.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

His WWE career has been such a trainwreck.

Still amazed we got no update on ABDUCTED KANE.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting Raw now. So no Cena for 4-6 months (which for him for could 2 and a half months)? I don't wish injury on anyone and Cena's arm looks super fucked, but no Cena character for possibly the rest of this calendar year? It's what a lot of people have clamoring for, including me. Props to him for going through that match last night, and for not canceling when he probably should have. Dedication there. 

Steph burying Bryan time. "Solid B+". Bryan's "trash" line was class, though.

Yep, Sin Cara's definitely hurt. Soon as he hit the floor, he almost instantly motioned for the ref and the "X" went up pretty fast. Amazing how Cara reacted so fast. I guess he's been injured so many times he just automatically assumes he's hurt every time he hits the floor.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No need to be so outlandish and critical, Sonnen Says. Yes, the logic behind some of that man's review was pretty damn stupid, but he has a right to his opinion and he isn't trying to rile up attention on himself. Man has every right to his opinion no matter how much we disagree with him.

It was inevitable that the Prime Time Players would turn face after what transpired, but I am more than happy. Darren Young is a very natural face with some life and rejuvenation, and Titus O'Neil deserves as much of a spotlight as possible. Really enjoyed the tag match as well. Tonight's handicap matches were also very well done and the Punk/Axel fight was really really good. The star of the show though is the guy who deserves super-stardom more than anyone has in history.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PTP's face turn worked out well as their pop almost came naturally. Those two were really over tonight. I'm on board for it. It's a push & they're >>> those shitheads the Usos. Let it roll, WWE. Regardless if the reason for it came b/c of Young's revelation to the world. This company pushes people for unusual aspects like that all the time. Aka Del Rio b/c he's Mexican. I've come to expect the reasons to be flawed.

Loved both Handicap matches, personally. Shield as a unit can just flat out work no matter what type it is. Reigns spearing Dolph midair was a heck of a sight.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Shield owned tonight. They solidified themselves again/even more. Dat spear was insane.

Also, I'm all for a big PTP face run. Those guys are gold.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield winning twice then being the muscle for the McMahons was great. Main event segment was awesome, as was the opening Bryan/Steph promo. Triple H as a heel is something I've missed for so long, and I already care more about Orton over the past 24 hours than I have since 2004.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I would love for Orton to shave the chops, start wearing suits like HHH and Vince, and go back to his heel delivery on the mic. Might as well take away the things that got him so over as a face. Ah, that's probably just the Evolution mark in me.

Pretty good RAW tonight too. Bit too much filler for me, but the opening and closing segments were awesome and Punk was too, as usual.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of it felt so natural too. The heels were in the right place and the lone babyface is adored. For me that's the most promising part. It all feels so believable.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Triple H being a heel for the first time since 2006 is nice. I'm liking where this is going provided Cena doesn't screw it up when he returns. I'm an Orton and Bryan mark so them feuding will be awesome. I've also waited weeks for Punk to destroy Axel so that was nice.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Oh my fucking god @ Bryan being the lone babyface going up against THE POWER! Is this real? As far as I'm concerned, Bryan is officially made and there's no going back. Just think about when this culminates in Bryan beating the odds and winning the belt properly. Shit. They can not fuck this up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only if they have Cena steal Danielson's thunder. That's the only way I can see this not having the payoff that it will. 

WWE has made some daft decisions in the past. There can be NO way they would do that scenario. Would they? Danielson is far, far too much of a big deal now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm fairly confident we're all going to get what we want, that being the huge payoff of Bryan overcoming the odds and becoming WWE champion, but I can't help but worry that Cena has a big role to play in the conclusion of this storyline.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I have that nagging feeling that Cena will comeback whenever he does, and be thrust straight into the forefront of things, the same old shit goes on.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, and they'll do something gay like have Bryan's big moment being winning the title from Orton while Cena topples the true villain, Triple H. I hope not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I cringe at another Cena vs Triple H match. Let alone one that takes away from Danielson becoming WWE Champion again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm cool with another Cena/HHH match. Always liked their chemistry so as long as it doesn't affect Bryan in a negative way I'm alright with it. Would actually make Bryan look like a fucking boss if Hunter goes over Cena and then they do DB/Trips.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just watched SummerSlam again, and IMO the three best matches of the night (two title matches and Punk vs. Bork obviously) definitely held up. I think I see myself marking out when Daniel won the title too, because I wasn't too far back from the announcer's table :lmao

As far as another Cena vs. HHH match goes, I'm sure it'd be very good, but it'd also take one hell of a build-up for me to get hyped for it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I wonder if there's any chance of HHH working a bunch of matches throughout this angle. I think it's safe to say he'll be in the tag match at Survivor Series and they need to do Bryan/HHH but I'd be so down for matches against Ziggler and Show at a lesser PPV or even on Raw.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Couple of pages ago now but..

They're going to do Trips vs. Bryan before WrestleMania no question. No way will they be able to hold it off for 7 months and keep interest. Possibilities of a Trips/Orton/Shield team at Survivor Series is exciting (facing..Bryan/Punk/?) which I think Brye mentioned. Would say the feud finishes with Triple H vs. Bryan as the main event of TLC but it'd have to be a stupid chairs match so NO.

Btw, when Bryan finally wins the belt back I can easily see it being because of Cena interference. Like Austin helping Rock at Backlash.



The Cynical Miracle said:


> Brock could win the world title (and elevate that beautiful belt) Punk wins the rumble and beats Lesnar for it.


I was up for Brock winning that last year. I know it didn't fit in with the storyline he had at the time, but Punk keeping the WWE title until his encounter with Taker and Lesnar facing a chasing Rock & Cena would've been such a good double main event.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

haribo said:


> Couple of pages ago now but..
> 
> They're going to do Trips vs. Bryan before WrestleMania no question. No way will they be able to hold it off for 7 months and keep interest. Possibilities of a Trips/Orton/Shield team at Survivor Series is exciting (facing..Bryan/Punk/?) which I think Brye mentioned. *Would say the feud finishes with Triple H vs. Bryan as the main event of TLC but it'd have to be a stupid chairs match so NO*.


Why would it have to be a chairs match?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm cool with another Cena/HHH match. Always liked their chemistry so as long as it doesn't affect Bryan in a negative way I'm alright with it. Would actually make Bryan look like a fucking boss if Hunter goes over Cena and then they do DB/Trips.


My thoughts exactly.

I have enjoyed both Cena/HHH matches in the past.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

One more thing I want to touch on; boy did Orton need this angle. Naturally most of the focus is on Bryan but Orton desperately needed something to make him interesting again. For the first time in forever I actually care about what he's doing.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> Why would it have to be a chairs match?


Because they won't close one of their prize gimmick PPVs (or rather, this one) with a regular singles match. Cena/Barrett never needed the chairs match but they had to shoe-horn it in somehow. Of course, they could go full on fuckery with a gimmick like sledgehammer above a ladder. Still scratching my head at that one.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I would like to see A HHH/Cena match at a B level PPV, like HiaC. I also think that Trips will work a few matches during this whole storyline, he definetely wants to work with Bryan one match and I would love to see A HHH/Ziggler match, only to see Ziggy selling the Pedigree


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> One more thing I want to touch on; boy did Orton need this angle. Naturally most of the focus is on Bryan but Orton desperately needed something to make him interesting again. For the first time in forever I actually care about what he's doing.


That is such a mutual feeling it's not even funny.

I was a little disappointed he didn't come out in a suit though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Trips is honestly the only match I can see taking place with him in it. The reason I'd care about that would be for the Danielson put over & that's it. Lord knows that is the ONLY way to end that match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

.It's good to see orton being interesting again, he really needed this heel turn. I bet that he and DB will give us a good match at NoC


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I still don't trust Orton in the ring, i expect him to be dull still sadly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's one thing some haven't brought up. Danielson vs Orton for the championship. Their TV matches were bleh for the majority. Who's to say their chemistry would all of a sudden improve just b/c Orton's a heel and it'll probably main event a PPV? 

I'm still on the fence. Better yet, I'm behind the fence. Twenty feet away wondering if I should even get on the fence.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hadn't given any thought to what Orton's heel turn might mean for him as a worker. It could be the return of the dreaded chin lock control segments.



haribo said:


> Because they won't close one of their prize gimmick PPVs (or rather, this one) with a regular singles match. Cena/Barrett never needed the chairs match but they had to shoe-horn it in somehow. Of course, they could go full on fuckery with a gimmick like sledgehammer above a ladder. Still scratching my head at that one.


Shouldn't a TLC match close TLC?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> That's one thing some haven't brought up. Danielson vs Orton for the championship. Their TV matches were bleh for the majority. Who's to say their chemistry would all of a sudden improve just b/c Orton's a heel and it'll probably main event a PPV?
> 
> I'm still on the fence. Better yet, I'm behind the fence. Twenty feet away wondering if I should even get on the fence.


How far are you away from the Kofi fence? :lol :lol :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Kofi fence is off in another country. Meanwhile I'm not planning on taking a trip there. Ever.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

But guys..remember when Kofi pinned Orton & Punk in 10 seconds? 



Saint Dick said:


> Shouldn't a TLC match close TLC?


Tell that to Cena :cena2


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

LOL.

Meltzer on his radio show said that the B+ line from last night came from the exact line he wrote about HHH in his observer in 1998.

This is all Dave's fault :meltzer:buried:HHH


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar (18/08/2013 WWE)*
★★★★
_This started off as the perfect formula. Lesnar decimated Punk to start things off, with Punk taking advantage thanks to some high spots to topple the giant. Punk may not have Brock's strength but anybody goes down when an uncovered knee falls off the top rope into their face. As soon as Punk got his back cut open, Lesnar honed in. Both men had a body part to go for and stuck to it for a good part of the match. It lost all of that toward the end, but the body was good enough to cover for it. Bless Lesnar for fighting the armbar as he did, it keeps that move strong. On the other end of the scale, though, I'm not particularly fond of how the Kimura has been booked. It's the move that broke HHH's arm, yet they still fight within the hold for extended times whenever the hold is used. First with HHH and now Punk. It added a nice transition into the triangle choke, though, admittedly. Punk taking the one-armed powerbomb and relentlessly applying his choke, again, came far too quickly for my liking, too. But those are smaller gripes and down to Punk not being close to Lesnar's performance here; and that's what hurt it most.
_


*Daniel Bryan Vs John Cena (18/08/2013 WWE)*
★★★★ 1/2
_I hope this match plays as a myth-breaker to two important factors. First, and least importantly, to the widely-acclaimed belief that Cena cannot wrestle. Second, that there is no proper reason as to why the ace of a company hardly, if ever, loses. This match is exactly why Cena should be booked the way he has, as it cemented Bryan as the superstar he is. Who was the last guy to beat Cena absolutely clean, in the centre of the ring? Outside of The Rock I cannot think of anyone in recent memory (perhaps Sheamus in 2009) and it certainly wasn't Punk with his illustrious title reign. Additionally, who was the last guy to run as close to Cena's equal as Bryan was here? Forget the post-match shenanigans as this put Bryan right up there where he should be. Perhaps there wasn't a more metaphorical gesture, too, in having Bryan win his first WWE title in the same centre Cena won his.

The story was woven so beautifully, with Cena "the entertainer" now proving to Bryan and the fans that he is, rather, Cena the wrestler. Hell, not that those are mutually exclusive terms as wrestling is entertainment, and this match proved it. Cena is most probably the perfect opponent for Bryan as Bryan can work off of Cena's strengths to pull off his more wrestler/indy-oriented spots (bridging-lift out of pin) while keeping the crowd at an electric pace purely because of the difference in pull for each man. Perhaps because of that, though, this match finds its only drawback. It probably is not the best both men can get out of each other which, in of itself, is a great compliment to the talent of both involved. To his credit, though, Cena played the heel role to perfection. While he's obviously a babyface, and cannot go full blown heel, his little mannerisms drew immense heat from the smarky crowd. Having delivered his spin-out powerbomb, he knew the crowd would be throwing their hands up saying "it's over, 5 moves of doom time" and he played to that so incredibly well in stalling the set-up and smirking into their direction. The kids wouldn't notice a thing, but his haters would. Perfect. He transitioned well into his respect for Bryan, though, once he hit his AA for the two count. "Now I know why they like the kid" is probably why I love John as much as I do. Not because of him sucking up to Bryan, but because he always adds commentary into his matches which allows for more depth than you'd see otherwise. Punk's smart-mouth trash-talking in the previous match lies full-circle to Cena's positive remarks, yet they're moments that add to their characters and deliver the reason as to why sports entertainment is as great as it is. Nothing beats Brock's "that's my manager" line at Extreme Rules, though. 

As I mentioned, this probably was not the best the two could do against each other but it still delivered in every way as it should have. GLORIOUS~!_​




Spoiler: post-Summerslam thoughts



I don't even want to see what the WWE section looks like. Especially after stumbling across this video:





Haters are just going to hate, aren't they? I'd give them some leeway if the injury actually played into the ending (and that's why the match went "KO" not submission to prevent it from doing so) or if it was made more of a focal point in why Daniel Bryan managed to shift momentum. Heaven forbid they work an injury point in a match off a very real and visible injury, though. Of course the shenanigans were coming. Orton/Bryan has been brewing for months, and Orton has been HHH's buddy for years, so who else to work with him? There is no way his spotlight was stolen after he received confetti and fireworks like that. It was a huge moment and momentum shift to WWE's talent. The very fact that HHH turned heel kept Bryan strong, too, as it allowed a surprise attack to level the new champion and not simply Orton picking up the scraps from a tired Bryan (akin to Ziggler/Del Rio). The happiest scenario would have been Orton cashing in and Bryan winning, but where would that take us? With this, we have the best long-term strategy for Bryan worked out. His fight against the corporate machine continues, this time having won Cena's approval and hopefully him as an ally, and it's obvious that Bryan will come out on top afterward. Beating Cena may have been a mountain to climb, but now Bryan faces the summit of Everest on the horizon. When he eventually reaches the top, he'll be cemented in his rightful place. "We don't become champions because we win, we win because we are champions". That may have been a line Cena said to sell Night of Champions but it fits Bryan oh so much more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't watch the review you posted, but what would expect from the geek who said "lets boycott the WWE for one year." Yet apparently he watched anyways just to bury the show. Pitiful.

Sorry ol chap. Show delivered. You lose.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Apparently Cena didn't lose clean, and that he must have had a fit backstage of not being able to bury Bryan. I'm not sure where I've seen the bald dumbass before (third cam) but he's almost as illogical as Bruce Blitzed. According to this cesspool of idiocy, it requires a high level knowledge of jui-jitsu to realise Punk's application of the triangle choke was bad. :hmm:


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

20 minutes of heel Haitch repeating himself ad-nauseum and Orton droning on every week. 

Maybe I didn't think this all the way through when I said it was the best situation possible. :side:

The last 5 minutes were really solid. Bryan being goaded into the RKO was amazing. The rest was largely waffle.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Its the 10th anniversary of the HHH reign of terror, going out their and cutting 20 min meandering, unfocused promo's and him and his stable beating everyone up all the time.

Thats why I'm not totally sold that this, in the end, will benefit DB. I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I watched Summerslam with 6 friends (five of whom aren't wrestling fans and one who is casual of some sort) and they all LOVED Punk Vs Brock. Then we had a discussion about Taker's Streak and I asked everyone who they would like to see him face at XXX... Everybody said that Taker Vs BROCK would be the way to go, and they all talked about how Brock could KILL taker.

I'm telling you, it's going to happen, and when it does = <3.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Calling it right now, Orton to come out with a suit. rton2


He should of done. I was hoping for a change in Orton, it's been overdue for years. But before he even came out I knew nothing was going to change when Triple H announced him as ''The Viper'' Randy Orton. Ugh, and then Orton came out said only a few words in he's typical slow and monotonous manner, and Triple H was talking again. Orton once again is stuck in Triple H's shadow, the feud is much more Bryan/HHH than Bryan/Orton. I'm enjoying this storyline so far, don't get me wrong, but I wish there was some change with Orton.

I also found it funny when Triple H and Orton hugged and Orton was all like: ''it's all thanks to you'' when 4 years ago Orton was punting Vince in the head, RKO'ing Stephanie, and destroying Triple H in their heated feud. :lol 


HayleySabin said:


> Loved both Handicap matches, personally. Shield as a unit can just flat out work no matter what type it is. Reigns spearing Dolph midair was a heck of a sight.


They were good. Re-established The Shield's dominant presence on RAW as I was wondering what WWE were doing with them lately. Also like their role in the main-event as Triple H's hired goons. 

Love the amount of offense Ziggler got in against them, the crowd were getting behind him, and then all of sudden... he gets speared by Reigns like he was hit by a truck lol.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Rah said:


> *CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar (18/08/2013 WWE)*
> ★★★★
> _This started off as the perfect formula. Lesnar decimated Punk to start things off, with Punk taking advantage thanks to some high spots to topple the giant. Punk may not have Brock's strength but anybody goes down when an uncovered knee falls off the top rope into their face. As soon as Punk got his back cut open, Lesnar honed in. Both men had a body part to go for and stuck to it for a good part of the match. It lost all of that toward the end, but the body was good enough to cover for it. Bless Lesnar for fighting the armbar as he did, it keeps that move strong. On the other end of the scale, though, I'm not particularly fond of how the Kimura has been booked. It's the move that broke HHH's arm, yet they still fight within the hold for extended times whenever the hold is used. First with HHH and now Punk. It added a nice transition into the triangle choke, though, admittedly. Punk taking the one-armed powerbomb and relentlessly applying his choke, again, came far too quickly for my liking, too. But those are smaller gripes and down to Punk not being close to Lesnar's performance here; and that's what hurt it most.
> _
> ...


That guy seriously pisses me off, he bashes anything WWE do. I unscribed from him on youtube cause he's just soooo bitter.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Its the 10th anniversary of the HHH reign of terror, going out their and cutting 20 min meandering, unfocused promo's and him and his stable beating everyone up all the time.
> 
> Thats why I'm not totally sold that this, in the end, will benefit DB. I hope I'm wrong.


If they mess this up, shame on WWE. HHH should put Bryan over in the ring, no if's or but's. He should win the WWE title back. Go in WM30 as champ and have a classic with CM Punk to see who's the real best in the world. A respect feud. Punk put's over Bryan (he's beaten Bryan twice Punk marks). A 5 star classic and Bryan's WM moment. Bryan's a made star. One can only wish.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Maple Leaf Muscle said:


> I still don't trust Orton in the ring, i expect him to be dull still sadly.


If he let's Bryan call the match then it be a work of genius. Bryan is a master Jedi when it comes to calling matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> LOL.
> 
> Meltzer on his radio show said that the B+ line from last night came from the exact line he wrote about HHH in his observer in 1998.
> 
> This is all Dave's fault :meltzer:buried:HHH


Yeah, I'm sure that's where it came from. Cause, you know, Vince and Co. have nothing to do with their lives other than remember something stupid written by Meltzer in 1998. Assuming they even read it of course.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm gonna re-watch that segment where Punk shoots on C2D.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm gonna re-watch that segment where Punk shoots on C2D.


:lol 

That was an awesome but strange little segment, I'm sure Punk gets booed all the time but he must have just been in a super bad mood last night. He's hardly that friendly to his own fans though, let alone ones that don't like him.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Not even WWE can bury DB now


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Had to smirk at Trips' overuse of the word 'buried' 

But fuck was it a long, lingering "Get the fuck on with it" speech once again IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Was shield/ziggler any good ?

I thought he was being buried and wasn't having any of that and changed the channel. I guess those "Dolph Ziggler hates John Cena" and " Dolph gonna get buried" threads got in my head alittle. I saw 3 on 1 and said "click"


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HHH's promo dragged like it usually does but it was awesome just to see him as a heel again. His overuse of "buried" was funniest.

And it was said a few pages back but I'm glad that PTP are looking to get a push.



sharkboy22 said:


> EDIT: Oh yeah, I'm gonna re-watch that segment where Punk shoots on C2D.


Except I'm not anywhere near fat. unk2


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Expecting shitloads of reviews and stars from you guys for tomorrows airing Zayn vs Cesaro 2outof3 falls match. A bud of mine was there live and still has this as MOTY after watching the Slam. Can't wait.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

hardyorton said:


> If he let's Bryan call the match then it be a work of genius. Bryan is a master Jedi when it comes to calling matches.


Maybe, but i will believe it when i see it.

I just got done watching Royal Rumble 1997 & i was like WTF? when Razor Ramon & Diesel came out :lol


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

I thought the main event segment was very good but after initially placing Bryan in the 'Austin' role of this feud im starting to think that's not what there doing, someone pointed out to me that Bryan won't be chasing for 7 months heading into WrestleMania, just not going to work and I kind of agree. 

See, initially I thought Bryan was just going to wrestle the championship from Orton a couple months post the cash in but the twist and shocker of Triple H turning and essentially creating 'The Corporation 2.0' there not going to be stopped in a couple months and with the way Bryan was showcased last night (a fighter, but overmatched) Im starting to think he's more the 'Mankind', the mechanism to get the right type of heat to launch this heel faction and in that regards its worked a treat but I know this would piss some people off knowing he's not the end game of being the conquering hero but rather creating a star but not the one to topple them. 

So whose that going to be? :cena3 vs rton? or unk6 vs rton? 

I expect Bryan to win the title back in the coming months in similar vein to Mankind beating Rock, I also suspect that one of Punk or Cena will help contribute to that just like Austin did only to lose it back.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> He should of done. I was hoping for a change in Orton, it's been overdue for years. But before he even came out I knew nothing was going to change when Triple H announced him as ''The Viper'' Randy Orton. Ugh, and then Orton came out said only a few words in he's typical slow and monotonous manner, and Triple H was talking again. Orton once again is stuck in Triple H's shadow, the feud is much more Bryan/HHH than Bryan/Orton. I'm enjoying this storyline so far, don't get me wrong, but I wish there was some change with Orton.
> 
> I also found it funny when Triple H and Orton hugged and Orton was all like: ''it's all thanks to you'' when 4 years ago Orton was punting Vince in the head, RKO'ing Stephanie, and destroying Triple H in their heated feud. :lol


 I think it's too early to judge, as you would know, but at the moment, it doesn't look too good for Orton. I still love that he is finally a heel and he looked like he joined it last night but there is a lot more to come from him. I still think it's harsh how people are calling Orton's promo terrible when he just said a few lines. He got the job done; he thanked HHH and then had a go at the crowd. Last night's promo was all about HHH explaining his actions so I'm confident Orton will have mic time later in the feud.

And agree with the second part. It's a good thing HHH mentioned his history with Orton when he told the crowd that helping out a guy like Orton proves it isn't personal but only business. I hate it when wrestlers ignore obvious feuds. Also it was funny when Stephanie chose to hug Orton :lol


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Thinking about picking up some DVDs. Rise and Fall of WCW, John Cena Experience, Allied Powers, or Hart and Soul?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*My sister's review of raw :lol*


If I could share a story- My older sister decided to watch raw with me for about an hour, shes a casual but see know who some ppl are because of me and see watches E! 24/7 so she knows Total divas. Here are some of her thoughts :lmao

- She asked why Dbryan and Cena "hate" each other but their GF are sisters, she thought they were good friends haha

- As Ziggler walked out and her know I like him, she says " Why do you like this guy ? he looks so weird and has the biggest chin I've ever seen" :lol

- She LOVES dbryan and screams saying "YES! YES!" I actually am from the area that Rosenberg is the radio host from and we listen to him and he starts the show of with the YES ! soundbite before some shows so she recognized it

- When they showed the Orton corallation, she then makes snake noises adn whipsers "Vipperr" and "Randy" she then says he looks like a pedo :lmao

-Before she left, I had to explain to her what the mitb briefcase entailed and what happen with heyman/punk. I sounded liek such a mark haha I start off saying " HHH was a good guy and at the end turn into a bad guy" and then she jsut walks away and watches the Kardashians

Yepp there goes a casual for ya


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'd get Rise & Fall.

I didn't personally care for the Cena set & have yet to watch the other 2.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watched some SummerSlam, which is the first WWE content I watched since April, IIRC.

- Kane/Wyatt *
- Del Rio/Christian ***3/4
- Lesnar/Punk ***3/4
- Cena/Dragon ****1/4

Liked Del Rio/Christian more than Lesnar/Punk, tbh.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Thinking about picking up some DVDs. Rise and Fall of WCW, John Cena Experience, Allied Powers, or Hart and Soul?


Get Rise and Fall and Hart and Soul. The John Cena Experience was boring imo. I haven't seen Allied Powers.



redskins25 said:


> *My sister's review of raw :lol*
> 
> 
> If I could share a story- My older sister decided to watch raw with me for about an hour, shes a casual but see know who some ppl are because of me and see watches E! 24/7 so she knows Total divas. Here are some of her thoughts :lmao
> ...


Orton does look like he drugs women.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Thinking about picking up some DVDs. Rise and Fall of WCW, John Cena Experience, Allied Powers, or Hart and Soul?


Rise & Fall of WCW. Best all around imo. If you have Bret's first DVD or a couple others you probably already have 90% of the matches on Hart & Soul. Allied Powers is decent yet unspectacular. John Cena Experience has some great matches but a lot of shitty ones too & the doc fucking SUCKS.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks guys (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Is ECW Unreleased Vol 2 any good?

Willing to bet that it sucks but wanted to make sure .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Is ECW Unreleased Vol 2 any good?
> 
> Willing to bet that it sucks but wanted to make sure .


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/pre-release-review-wwe-ecw-unreleased-vol-2-dvd/45888/

DVD Review


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Alright so I rewatched some of ss 13


christian/del rio ****
cena/bryan ****1/4

- The WHC match is not so much underrated but needs more lovin. Everyone knows and probably shares my thoughts on del Rio ( a worthless hack, that a rock is more entertaining) and my love for Christian has kind of faded abit, but boy these two knocked it out of the park. I guess Del Rio's best matches are when he keeps attacking a certain body part in a methodical way but hell it works for him. Damn Christian took some shots in this one, that enguzi (did I spell it right ?) on the top rope was NASTY. Nice finishing stretch which suspended the belief that Christian was about to win. I REALLY REALLY dig this one

- WWE match was Superb, my only take back was it felt spotty. It felt like they were going at a slower pace, but hitting spot and then spot. The match style was unique but they MADE it work. The cash-in was BADASS and I again was need. Looking forward to this shit.

Now saying that, I need to rewatch brock/punk but as it stand I think its worlds better then these two, which is says alot


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Watched Lesnar vs. Punk for the fourth time. It just keeps on getting better. Holy shit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ Agreed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Is ECW Unreleased Vol 2 any good?
> 
> Willing to bet that it sucks but wanted to make sure .



I didn't really like it, only about 3 matches even worth watching on it, the 3 way with Bammer being the best (love me some Bam Bam)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The atmosphere for the double main event basically convinced me that I should at least make tentative plans for SummerSlam 2014 

I need to give Rhodes/Sandow from last night another look. I wasn't paying too much attention, but from what I caught it might've been better than their SummerSlam match.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Ambrose/RVD **1/2
Wyatt/Kane **
Rhodes/Sandow **
ADR/Christian ***
Punk/Lesnar ****
Tag match *
Bryan/Cena ****

Watched the show with a few people, all casuals.
- They really got into the HWT match towards the end.
- During the divas match we laughed at the random chants and talks about how bad the divas were.
- They were going crazy during both main events, everyone was pulling for Punk and Bryan. Punk/Lesnar is my new MOTY.
- *Bryan hits the knee...1 2 3* "he won? HOLY SHIT HE WON" 
we went ape shit.
- Someone called the HHH interference when Orton came out, but the rest of us were in shock.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all's thoughts on the superfun Shield/Show Handicap?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Alright so I rewatched some of ss 13
> 
> 
> christian/del rio ****
> ...


Del Rio's a good worker man. I never really liked his earlier heel work and thought he looked better as the fighting babyface earlier this year against Big Show, Ziggler and Swagger but it seems like he's starting to put it together nicely as the aggressive heel champion. Obviously Payback is the pinnacle of his career in terms of an individual performance but I thought he was seriously good against Christian at Summerslam too. He has this viciousness about him now, especially in his striking. Some of his kicks in that match were almost Jose Aldo-esque. Christian was on point as well. Loved the finish with the arm injury coming back into play. Great match.

Cena/Bryan was excellent but I definitely think they could have a better match if they went away from the big spot for big spot WWE main event style. Need to watch it again though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Del Rio's a good worker man. I never really liked his earlier heel work and thought he looked better as the fighting babyface earlier this year against Big Show, Ziggler and Swagger but it seems like he's starting to put it together nicely as the aggressive heel champion. Obviously Payback is the pinnacle of his career in terms of an individual performance but I thought he was seriously good against Christian at Summerslam too. He has this viciousness about him now, especially in his striking. Some of his kicks in that match were almost Jose Aldo-esque. Christian was on point as well. Loved the finish with the arm injury coming back into play. Great match.
> 
> Cena/Bryan was excellent but I definitely think they could have a better match if they went away from the big spot for big spot WWE main event style. Need to watch it again though.


Agreed, Del Rio I thought move set was better as a face as he incorporated some lucha move. I honestly think his opponents are huge factor though. He just gets up for the Christians,ziggler, and swagger's of the world. Outside of those although good in the ring he can be boring ala Randy Orton


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Agreed, Del Rio I thought move set was better as a face as he incorporated some lucha move. I honestly think his opponents are huge factor though. He just gets up for the Christians,ziggler, and swagger's of the world. Outside of those although good in the ring he can be boring ala Randy Orton


You mean boring in the ring or his character?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

both, but the former when he is against the likes of RVD, Orton etc


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For the sake of it, rewatched BITW/BITW from PB, and I can't help but say that it's Angle/Benoit gone right. A wrestling classic without a true story/build backing it, that's what it is.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What was classic about the wrestling?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Jericho III was terrible, once you get pass the EPIC entrance and hot crowd its horrible


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess the whole flow and vibe of it is awesome. Idk, to each their own but it's a guilty pleasure of mine.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I don't recall disliking the match at all. The whole thing just didn't seem right to me, though. Punk hits all his moves in succession, including the GTS, and Jericho kicks out, and we get another what seemed like 20 minutes. I guess they were going for the ring rust storyline, so if they were, I think it worked. I just hope they were going for that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Is ECW Unreleased Vol 2 any good?
> 
> Willing to bet that it sucks but wanted to make sure .


I haven't watched the DVD but the Steiners/Eddie/whoever tag is good, Scorpio/Douglas is insanely good and maybe the best ECW match I've seen (including WWE ECW), and there's a Michinoku tag with TAKA and the others, and a match with Tajiri in it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I like Punk/Jericho from Payback but I wouldn't really call it amazing or anything.

Also, if this week's Raw is any indication of what we're getting the next few months, then I'm very excited.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Still haven't seen Jericho/Punk from Payback. All I've seen from that show is the fantastic Ziggler/ADR match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Still haven't seen Jericho/Punk from Payback. All I've seen from that show is the fantastic Ziggler/ADR match.




Only match worth watching, Very disappointing ppv for me since I attended. 

Ziggler/Del Rio ****

Punk/Jericho ***1/2


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked a couple other matches from Payback. Orton/Bryan vs Rollins/Reigns was good (imo) and Miz/Barrett/Axel was surprisingly very entertaining.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Payback was great. Great IC Title Triple Threat, great Punk/Jericho match, an awesome Ziggler/Del Rio match, the best divas match in god knows how long (and a really good one at that), and not-completely terrible main event. Shield tag was good as well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Payback was crap. Ziggler/Del Rio was great for what it was but considering I give 0 fucks about both, I haven't even bothered rewatching it. The tag match was okay but not enough for me to ever bother bringing it up in good light and everything else was shit or forgettable.


----------



## stone cold great (Aug 20, 2013)

I find the edge vs cena at unforgiven is a underrated match,for me it's a ****3/4 match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

stone cold great said:


> I find the edge vs cena at unforgiven is a underrated match,for me it's a ****3/4 match.


Haven't watched that match in a long time. I may give it a watch now.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> I think it's too early to judge, as you would know, but at the moment, it doesn't look too good for Orton. I still love that he is finally a heel and he looked like he joined it last night but there is a lot more to come from him. I still think it's harsh how people are calling Orton's promo terrible when he just said a few lines. He got the job done; he thanked HHH and then had a go at the crowd. Last night's promo was all about HHH explaining his actions so I'm confident Orton will have mic time later in the feud.


Yeah it's still too early judge, but I'm invested in the angle so we'll see where it goes. Orton's now the most interesting he's been to me in years, but that's pretty much all because of this storyline - but I hope we'll see much more personality out of Orton and less of his slow talking, boring Viper character promos.

Oh at how awesome Orton used to be...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I guess the whole flow and vibe of it is awesome. Idk, to each their own but it's a guilty pleasure of mine.


Thank you! Glad someone else likes that match as much as I do. I wouldn't consider it a classic by any means, but for what it was I think they did better than you could expect with such a shitty build. As far as back and forth action goes, it was better than Ziggler vs Del Rio, it's just the epic baby face performance by Ziggler and awesome heel performance by ADR that makes people love that match so much more than Jericho vs Punk. The ring rust story worked, partially because Punk really WAS rusty, but also because they executed it so well and took advantage of said ring rust. It's not up to par with their Mania match, which was truly great, but I don't think it's out of line to give it ****. I don't get why that match gets so much hate, everyone has their opinion I suppose I just don't see what there is not to like about it.

P.s. ATF, what did you think of Lesnar vs Punk? I enjoyed it even more than the Lesnar vs Cena match from ER, which I know you think is a ***** classic.

Man, Punk has really been on a roll this year...

1. Lesnar vs Punk ****1/2
2. Cena vs Punk from Raw ****1/2
3. Punk vs Taker ****1/2
4. Punk vs Jericho ****

I know as recently as a month ago I felt DBry had worker of the year locked up, but man Punk is giving him a run for his money....


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Punk/Bryan at WM for the title needs to happen. If not 30 then 31. 

Loving the Bret Hart unreleased set. What a good idea. They could do this with a few more guys too. I know they did a Hogan one but I think a HBK one would be sweet. 

What are some of the best HBK matches NOT on DVD/BR compilations?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Daniel Bryan and CM Punk seem to have switched roles these past two years. Last year, Punk was the undisputed best wrestler in the company with the most good-great matches out of everyone on the roster while Bryan had a bunch of the top matches that year (vs. Punk, TLC, vs. Sheamus). This year, nobody has been better than Bryan, but Punk has all the top matches (vs. Taker, Cena, Lesnar).


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. Randy Savage Feud (1991/1992)*​


Spoiler: Matches & Promos



*SummerSlam 1991 – Savage & Liz’s Wedding Reception*
We are backstage in a room, and we have a live band and we see wrestlers shaking hands and other no bodies. Mean Gene even gives a little toast, first kiss and now the first dance. We then cut to them cutting the cake and Liz feeds him and he does the same AWWWWW! I was disappointed that the ladies didn’t fight over the bouquet. Next we see Randy opening the gifts and Liz tells him they should wait but he doesn’t listen :lmao, first gift is a blender. Liz jumps on and they open candles. Liz does to open the 2nd gift and a SNAKE jumps out OH SHIT! Taker jumps Randy from behind and Jake waves the cobra right in front of her as she screams. Then out of nowhere Big Sid Justice makes the save by hitting Jake in the back with a wooden chair and stares down Undertaker and Jake. 

One and a half months later.

*Superstars 11/23/1991 – Miss Elizabeth Interview*
Miss Elizabeth is backstage and she begs Jack Tunney that her husband, Randy Savage, should be reinstated. The fans are helping out chanting “RE-IN-STATE.” 

*Superstars 11/23/1991 - Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. Bob Werner*
Randy, Piper and Vince are on commentary for this and this goes around a minute and it’s all Randy, as he hits a DDT 40 seconds in for the win. Post-Match: Jake grabs the mic, and says he almost looked up to Macho Man at a time in his life as an IC Champion and a former WWF Champion. He almost envied him, but now he looks at him and he thinks Savage has grown soft hiding behind his woman and that desk. Jake then tells him to borrow Piper's skirt if he needs to, and Macho can’t take it anymore and heads to the ring, “to get a closer look.” Macho actually goes to the apron and the official at ringside try to stop it. Jake says common sense and fear are stopping Savage from doing anything, as he’s about to go into the ring official grab his leg allowing Jack to jump on him. He clothesline Savage down on the apron, he brings him into the ring and ties him up on the bottom two ropes. Jake takes out this huge Cobra snake and WAVES IT AROUND AND THE COBRA BITES SAVAGE ON THE ARM HOLY SHIT! NOOOOOOO! I have the censored version  Piper runs out as does Liz and a bunch of agents and referees. EMTs come out and they get Savage out and they get Jake and the cobra away. Vince losing his shit on commentary was gold. There’s a great shot of a kid crying at ringside. 

*Survivor Series 1991 - Jack Tunney Announces Reinstatement of Randy Savage*
We get an uncensored version of the snake bite segment that happen on Superstars. Tunney is at his office and he accepts full responsibility of what happen and he’s banned all reptiles from ringside. He says RANDY SAVAGE WILL BE REINSTATED AND WILL RETURN THIS TUESDAY IN TEXAS! He will face Jake Roberts, who has been pulled from his match tonight as punishment for his actions last weekend.

*Survivor Series 1991 - Randy Savage Interview*
Mean Gene introduces the reinstated Randy Savage. Gene talks about Tuesday in Texas and says 97% of people voted to have Macho reinstated. Savage says he was delirious and it was a living hell and he couldn't see or hear. But the one thing he could see and could hear was Elizabeth crying, and that hurt him worse than anything Jake Roberts could do to him. Gene ask bout Liz, so Randy brings her out and she thanks all the people that helped get Randy reinstated. 

*Survivor Series 1991 - Jake Roberts Interview*
Back on the stage, Gene brings out Jake “The Snake” Roberts. Gene talks about the snake incident and Jake says trust me it was a “accident” :lmao Gene asks him if the snake was devenomized and Jake’s reply “He says cross his heart and hope to die” Gene asks if he knows the anguish he caused Randy and Elizabeth, and Jake says "Yeah, it got me excited a little bit. I thought about it for a long time..." :lmao Gene says some people think Jake should be gone from the WWF and brings up the match on Tuesday. Jake says he's not the original sinner, and he spoke to God this morning, and he doesn't like him, and the people who voted for Savage, Jack Tunney, and the WWF are just as much to blame for what's going to happen. Gene brings up how the snake is barred and Jake laughs. He says it's hard to believe that after 6 years, you people haven't caught on yet. *"The thing in the bag was simply a toy, something to amuse myself with. I've always been the snake you should worry about!"* OH MY FUCKIN’ GOD! This guy is money. Anyways, he says he's surprised anyone can be that ignorant because Tuesday in Texas, Elizabeth has a ticket and tells her not to be shy and she has a one-way ticket to the other side. He says not to expect the prince to wake the princess with a kiss because it's not the end. It's not the beginning and it's not even the beginning of the end. Yet, the end of the beginning. 

*This Tuesday In Texas 12/03/1991- Jake “The Snake” Roberts Interview*
Sean Mooney is with Jake Roberts in the locker rooms, Mooney says he saw Randy earlier on and he can’t wait to get his hands on Jake. Jake says the last time he saw Randy he was flailing on the ground like a small child, drowning in the poison running through his own veins. He says his eyes are black holes, the snake's eyes were cold and deliberate and devilish. Savage's eyes? They were gone, he was out of it. But he enjoyed Elizabeth's eyes the most. Such small pupils, intent and frightened for the man she loves. And what a rush he got from that. Up and down his back, hell he had Goosebumps. As for Jack Tunne? Well He is to blame for what happens tonight after giving putting Randy Savage in a match, and he may as well have given him full permission. Snake or not. 

Elsewhere, Mean Gene is with Randy Savage and a nervous Miss Elizabeth. Randy cuts Gene off and cuts a promo about trust, fear and the snake. I think, IDK! I know the “YEAH!” word count was 48. Oh and he says he’s gonna come off the top rope and deliver an elbow for the win. 

*This Tuesday In Texas 12/03/1991- Jake Roberts vs. Randy Savage*
As Jake comes down to the ring, Randy jumps him and gets the quick advantage hitting punches, and comes off the top for the sledgehammer punch to the head. Jack goes to leave but Randy throws him back into the ring and continues the assault until Jake begs off and then goes low and tosses Savage out to get sent into the ring-post. Back in again, Jake goes to work on the arm that got bit by the snake :mark: He works on the arm for like 2 minutes and Jake cuts him off at every turn stopping the momentum until Savage ducks one Short-Arm Clothesline, but not the second one. Jake taunts the crowd instead of going immediately for the DDT, and gets backed into the corner as Savage comes off the top rope for the MACHO ELBOW! For the win. WHAT! That’s all it took, getting thrown into the buckle and an elbow. FUCK MAN! This match was like 6 minutes. Post-Match: Savage grabs the ring bell, but the ref gets it away from him as Jake hits the DDT. Both men slowly start to get up as Jake still selling the ribs, Jake gives him another DDT, and begins to talk shit as the ref yells at him. Jake finally leaves but smiles and turns around. JAKE SAYS HE GAVE TUNNEY HIS WORD THAT THERE WAS NO SNAKE IN HIS CORNER, BUT HE SAID NOTHING ABOUT ANYWHERE ELSE! JAKE GRABS A BAG FROM UNDER THE RING AND HE HAS ANOTHER SNAKE! He taunts Randy with the bag but Elizabeth runs out! She covers up Randy and pleads with Jake to stop and to leave him alone. Jake harasses her and then tells her to look into his eyes while he gives Savage a THIRD DDT. Jake then grabs Liz by the hair and SMACKS her. HOLY SHIT! Another ref finally comes out to keep Jake back and Jack Tunney comes out to make Jake leave. AND JAKE EMPTIES THE BAG TO REVEAL THERE WAS NO SNAKE AND HE SPITS ON SAVAGE! HOLY FUCKIN’ SHIT! ***

*This Tuesday In Texas 12/03/1991- Jake “The Snake” Roberts Interview*
In the back, Mean Gene interviews Jake “The Snake” Roberts; He says no man wants a woman that will lie down and grovel and beg for somebody's life. He wants a woman to stand up. He says he'll slap himself or Gene. He says DDT’ing Randy felt good, sure, but the best feeling was grabbing his woman's hair and pulling her up, and yeah, he slapped her. It felt so good he should have had to pay for that! He says Randy needs to think about tonight the next time he wants to cross this snake's path, but if he does cross his path again, he's got one favour to ask him and says to please bring her back and to let him touch her again and says he could cultivate her into something even he would want. I think I just came. 

*This Tuesday In Texas 12/03/1991- Randy Savage Interview*
Randy is losing his shit, and it’s fuckin’ AMAZING! He says he knows what Roberts did to Elizabeth and he’s NOT happy. Snake DEGRADED her, and he only blames himself. He’s going to get Jake, and there will be NO stopping him. The pain he showed here might be top 10 promo of all time. 

*Invasion 1992 – Randy Savage & Jim Duggan vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts & The Undertaker*
This was okay; Taker was in zombie mode here while Duggan bored the shit out of me. But the best parts were Jack laughing at Randy when he was on the apron whenever Randy looked at him. The match would speed up and get the crowd going as soon as Randy/Jake got it but that didn’t last long as Jake would tag out and Taker would begin to work on Savage. The match would breakdown and Savage would run into the ring and hit both Taker and Jack with a chair for the DQ. **

*Providence, RI 01/30/1992 - Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. Randy Savage*
This is cam held footage so, the audio is pretty bad but at least the vid is watchable. Randy goes right to him and they brawl around ringside until Randy rolls Jack back into the ring and grabs a chair but the ref throws it out allowing Jack to get the upper hand. He begins to work on the head setting him up for the DDT but occasionally he would throw in a body blow. Randy had a ton of fire here and his mini-comebacks and cut-off spots were great. I also loved Jake taunting the crowd after ever move but that would ultimately lead to his downfall and Randy would have that big comeback. At one point Randy hits a flying double-ax handle and whips Jake into the buckle he goes charging in but Jake gets the knees up, he would then hit the short-arm clothesline and continue to taunt the crowd which allows Randy to the DDT for the win. ***

*MSG 01/31/1992 - Randy Savage vs. Jake “The Snake” Roberts*
Just like the previous 2 matches Randy goes on the attack early and they fight to the outside and back in where Jack gains control. He was being super methodical here and it was one of those Jack matches where he doesn’t do much but it’s still better than when guys do a million moves to get over. And unlike the other matches they had I would say this was a lot more back-and-forth with Randy’s mini-comeback getting at least 3-4 moves in before Jack would cut him off. At one point in the match Jake would hit the short-arm clothesline but he would taunt the crowd again and when he does finally go for the DDT, Randy would grab the ropes so Jack would go head first on the mat and Randy would hit an elbow off the top for the win. Jack should really stop taunting if he ever wants to win :side **3/4

*Saturday Night’s Main Event 02/08/1992 - Randy Savage interview*
Mean Gene interviews Randy Savage; Savage says you thought he was crazy before? Oh, you haven’t seen crazy yet.

*Saturday Night’s Main Event 02/08/1992 - Jake “The Snake” Roberts vs. Randy Savage*
This is only 5 minutes, and it starts off with the normal and typical out-side fight with Randy getting the better of the two but instead of just punches. Roberts gets posted shoulder-first on the ring-post, and gets rolled back into the ring. Savage starts choking and clawing at Roberts like a crazy man. But Jake manages to turn it around puts on the brakes during a turnbuckle smash and throws Savage out to gain a breather. Back in, Savage fights back and attempts a flying double-ax handle, but Roberts catches him on the way down and then levels Savage with the DDT. But instead of going for the pin, he continues to taunt and tells the ref Earl Hebner to start the ten-count. He gets to eight, but Savage is up to his knees. Roberts gives Savage a short-arm clothesline. He makes the mistake though by taunting the crowd again in this match and like the 35th time he’s done it in the four matches they’ve had together. Anyway, Jake tries a second DDT but get backdrop out to the floor he tries to pick himself up using the guardrail and doesn’t see Savage coming off the top rope with a double-ax handle and that connects. Back in, Savage finishes Roberts off with the MACHO ELBOW DROP. Post-Match: Savage feels that this win wasn’t good enough so goes to the top rope as referees and security try to block him, but he’s like fuck this and delivers another Elbow. Savage goes out and grabs the ring bell, but by the time he gets back to the ring, Roberts has already left and is behind the curtains. Elizabeth runs down to celebrate with the “Macho Man” Randy Savage. As for the match it really needed more time and looking at the story really should have been a “Hardcore” Brawl match. But, FUCK IT! The feud was pretty AMAZING! ***


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I cannot and will not take Orton seriously until he changes his look.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alim said:


> I cannot and will not take Orton seriously until he changes his look.



At the very least, the chops need to go and he needs to start rocking a suit. Bonus points if he grows the hair back out and drops the "the viper" monicker.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I agree completely. I don't even care if he starts wearing suits, the facial hair needs to go :vince4 :HHH rton2


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Watching Ground Zero and seeing Pillman win the match against Goldust makes me wonder how his career would have ended up if it wasn't for his very untimely death. The guy had a great character that made you instantly hate him and apprantly, plans were for Marlena to side with him and turn against Goldust. Would have been interesting to see that but it would have been strange considering they were dating before. A feud with 1997 HBK would have been awesome back then or even a feud with Austin in 1998. Read that thread in the classic wrestling section and it's very sad to hear those interviews where he seems to be optimistic about the future and says his injury will just be a minor 'blip' in 5 years time.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Royal Rumble next year is in Pittsburgh, huh? 

:angle2 vs. :brock at WrestleMania 30!
THE RUBBER MATCH!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Royal Rumble next year is in Pittsburgh, huh? :angle2 :angle2 :angle2


 I will laugh so hard if his song comes on and then this guy comes out..


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I wouldn't rule it out based on how much the WWE seems to dislike Angle 

Related to that, during Dolph Ziggler's Q&A at Axxess, he asked the crowd who we'd like for him to wrestle. I yelled out "Kurt Angle!" and he acknowledged it :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WWE have been acknowledging Angle much more this year. They added a profile for him on WWE.com and a couple of days ago they posted his titantron and theme on their youtube channel. They also promote him more in the articles they post. Before that, he was nearly treated like Benoit with his work being overlooked.

And they also uploaded this :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Y'all's thoughts on the superfun Shield/Show Handicap?


Exactly what you dubbed it: superfun. The Dolph one rocked too.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Just watched team Raw vs team Smackdown from Survivor Series 2005 good match imo 4 stars.

What's everyone's favorite Survivor Series team matches ?


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Daniel Bryan and CM Punk seem to have switched roles these past two years. Last year, Punk was the undisputed best wrestler in the company with the most good-great matches out of everyone on the roster while Bryan had a bunch of the top matches that year (vs. Punk, TLC, vs. Sheamus). This year, nobody has been better than Bryan, but Punk has all the top matches (vs. Taker, Cena, Lesnar).


To be fair to Bryan, The Cena match at SS was his first PPV single's match this year and it was a classic. Punk's had matches with The Rock, Taker, Jericho and Lesnar all long PPV matches. Bryan's had some awesome matches on Raw with Cesaro, Rollins and Orton Plus those tag team matches. But Bryan hasn't had the chance to shine as a Singles star in a while like Punk has, but now he has. Punk's matches with Taker, Cena and Lesnar have been awesome and Bryan's with Cesaro, Rollins and Cena have been awesome too. WM30 Bryan vs Punk has to be booked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Joshi elimination tag from Survivor Series '95 has always been a favorite. Easy pick.


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> Just watched team Raw vs team Smackdown from Survivor Series 2005 good match imo 4 stars.
> 
> What's everyone's favorite Survivor Series team matches ?


Team Lesnar vs Team Angle but the Raw vs Smackdown match was awesome

But...

Team wwf vs Team Alliance This steal's it for me 5 star classic


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ten Team Elimination Match in 1988 is my easy pick for #1. My goodness what a match!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The MASSIVE one is fabulous. I want another one this year. Do it, WWE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> The MASSIVE one is fabulous. I want another one this year. Do it, WWE.


You and me both. Don't know how they will do it though.

Face Teams: International Airstrike, Prime Time Players, Tons of Funk, Usos (yeah, I know), Henry/Big Show or Los Matadores

Heel Teams: Real Americans, Wyatt Family...and now I am drawing a huge blank.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Makeshift teams. I know the era for tag teams was different, but a quick fix for the lot who have nothing to particularly do could fit.

Henry & Show, International Airstrike, Primetime Players, Tons of Funk, & Los Matadores

vs

Real Americans, Wyatt Family, The Shield, 3MB of Slater & McIntyre.

I'd be fine with that. Wyatt's & Shield would be a three man party. b/c in my fantasy, the entire team wouldn't be eliminated when one partner got defeated.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> Just watched team Raw vs team Smackdown from Survivor Series 2005 good match imo 4 stars.
> 
> What's everyone's favorite Survivor Series team matches ?


Favorite of mine personally? It would be Team Angle vs Team Lesnar at Survivor Series 03. Second would be Teamsters (what a horrible team name :lol) vs Bad Guys from Survivor Series 94. HBK being the highlight. :hbk


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Another highly underappreciated Survivor Series tag match is the 1995 opener. Everyone performed well, including Bob freakin' Holly. DAT BARRY HOROWITZ!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The large tag team elimination matches in 87 and 88 were amazing as was the Taker debut in 1990 which ended in a few minutes of Bret Hart v Ted DiBiase....yay.

The Alliance v Team WWF was great though and my fave SS elimination match. Great 5 star match IMHO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Thank you! Glad someone else likes that match as much as I do. I wouldn't consider it a classic by any means, but for what it was I think they did better than you could expect with such a shitty build. As far as back and forth action goes, it was better than Ziggler vs Del Rio, it's just the epic baby face performance by Ziggler and awesome heel performance by ADR that makes people love that match so much more than Jericho vs Punk. The ring rust story worked, partially because Punk really WAS rusty, but also because they executed it so well and took advantage of said ring rust. It's not up to par with their Mania match, which was truly great, but I don't think it's out of line to give it ****. I don't get why that match gets so much hate, everyone has their opinion I suppose I just don't see what there is not to like about it.
> 
> P.s. *ATF, what did you think of Lesnar vs Punk? I enjoyed it even more than the Lesnar vs Cena match from ER, which I know you think is a ***** classic.*
> 
> ...


What everyone else thinks: a storytelling masterpiece 

I really, really wanna give it ****3/4. But I just don't have the balls to place it over my favourite MotY Taker/Punk.

NOC is looking good. Orton/Bryan, ADR/RVD, Shield/Black Show _(my name for Show & Henry)_, AJ/Natalya, prob. Axel/Punk and Cody/Sandow, as well as I kinda figured out that Ambrose/Ziggler is likely to happen too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Part of me still feels the company may hold off on Danielson vs Orton. It could happen, although if they decide to go a different route just to have Danielson jump through hoops, I wouldn't be surprised. Or the other scenario of Danielson using his rematch for NOC, gets screwed again, then has to jump through hoops following. The ol _"walking through Hell with gasoline breeches on"_ type road to earn the eventual match where Danielson would regain the championship.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

No one else is worthy of challenging for the belt other than DB. At least not until Cena comes back.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well Cody:



Spoiler: Smackdown



on SD spoilers Orton/Bryan was announced.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not going to read spoilers, mate. I'm actually interested in the angle to where I'm wanting to let it happen as I view it.

I'll find out come Friday.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was a fan of Bryan vs Orton no holds barred, which surprised the fuck out of me in all honesty. It's amazing, but the interest I have in Orton's current storyline and character is pretty insane compared to where it was just one week ago. Maybe they decided to give him another super push because he pretty much chose the company over his marriage and now it's all he has left? I don't know, but this corporation shit is amazing.

I HATE to be the one to say this too, but Bryan's not going to get the payoff to this I think. He'll be the guy who falls trying to stop the corporation, making way for whoever the true hero will be in the end, Cena or Punk? Rock? If this ends up with Rock vs Orton & Rock Vs HHH, I might stop watching wrestling forever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Looks like we're set for some awesome team wars to round out the year. Battleground and Survivor Series are perfect for this. 

HHH/Orton/Shield vs. some combination of Bryan/Ziggler/Show/Henry/Punk/Cena perhaps?

:mark:

This is going to be good.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

DB is getting the shitty end of the stick.

Orton V Bryan is defiantly happening at NOC and DB is defiantly losing. DB is gonna be beaten up damn near every raw aka Evolution and Goldberg, And its pretty obvious that this isnt for DB. I thought it might be after SS, but after Raw, some partimer or Cena is going to be the hero in the end.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wait, they renamed a ppv Battleground (thought it was still Over The Limit)? Jesus, when will it stop? I unfortunately don't expect Bryan to go over Orton at all. I see Orton beating Bryan & probably Cena (maybe some random other one like Henry) until Rock comes back into the picture and takes the Title... god I hope that doesn't happen though.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Of course he's losing at NOC. Why should he triumph just one month into the storyline? It would be stupid to have him win so soon. Have him lose at NOC by getting screwed, have him lose at HIAC by possibly getting his shit kicked in by all the Corporation members inside the Cell. This sets up the other guys to step in and say enough is enough which brings us to team wars for Battleground and Survivor Series. TLC I don't know what they do there but it's only a month away from the Rumble. I'm sure they can come up with something to fill the time until Bryan gets put in at number 1 but ends up winning the Rumble. Then he'll either get Orton or HHH for the title at Wrestlemania I guess. 

If that doesn't happen and it ends up being Cena or a part timer then whatever. Bryan will still come out of it a much bigger star than when he went in. It would be unfortunate if that happened but I'm willing to go out on a limb and give them the benefit of the doubt. I never thought they would have the balls to pull a storyline like this but they have and they've gone all out in doing so. If they can do this then they can do anything. Who the hell knows where it's going? I'm just happy they switched things up for the first time in almost a decade. How about we enjoy the journey for a change instead of bitching about the destination before it even happens.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> Of course he's losing at NOC. Why should he triumph just one month into the storyline? It would be stupid to have him win so soon. Have him lose at NOC by getting screwed, have him lose at HIAC by possibly getting his shit kicked in by all the Corporation members inside the Cell. This sets up the other guys to step in and say enough is enough which brings us to team wars for Battleground and Survivor Series. TLC I don't know what they do there but it's only a month away from the Rumble. I'm sure they can come up with something to fill the time until Bryan gets put in at number 1 but ends up winning the Rumble. Then he'll either get Orton or HHH for the title at Wrestlemania I guess.
> 
> If that doesn't happen and it ends up being Cena or a part timer then whatever. Bryan will still come out of it a much bigger star than when he went in. It would be unfortunate if that happened but I'm willing to go out on a limb and give them the benefit of the doubt. I never thought they would have the balls to pull a storyline like this but they have and they've gone all out in doing so. If they can do this then they can do anything. Who the hell knows where it's going? I'm just happy they switched things up for the first time in almost a decade. *How about we enjoy the journey for a change instead of bitching about the destination before it even happens*.


We have collectively said this for every big angle that started of great, that they have created in the last three to four years. And they have collectively fucked up every. single. one of them. Nexus, Summer of Punk, Rock V Cena etc...

And i'm not to sure about bryan coming off a bigger star in the end anyway. HHH has a habit for the past few years of feuding with guys who are hot and cooling them off e.g Lesnar, Punk etc. 

I'm not sold on this like everyone else is. I hope I'm wrong because I'm a fan of DB and this should be easy as fuck to book. But WWE are shitty at long term booking so. Yeah.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well it seems as if HHH is hellbent on main eventing Wrestlemania XXX, so whether that means HHH-Cena, HHH-Rock, or even HHH-Punk (yes please), one of those pretty much has to happen. I mean, they aren't going to pay off HHH-Bryan 7 months from now, it's just not WWE-Esque whatsoever. I'm thinking that this blows off at about TLC and we see storylines taking another direction come rumble season when Taker, Cena, Brock, etc start getting their big plans for the main event.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The difference between this and all those other things is that WWE actually followed through. This has been building for months. For months we've been saying 'Wouldn't it be great if this, wouldn't it be great if that.' All the other times we said the exact same thing and nothing ever came from it but this time WWE followed through and actually DID something. That's the difference. They turned Orton and HHH heel. Words can't describe how big that is. They didn't just do something, they flipped everything on its head and THEY made the decision to do it. It didn't come out of nowhere like Punk. They made the decision and it looks like for the first time in forever they have a plan. They obviously do otherwise all this wouldn't have come together so seamlessly. 

This is the second arc of the story playing out now. The McMahon's and HHH are involved in this, have been involved from the beginning and no doubt will be involved when it all culminates at Wrestlemania. People are just going to have to deal with that. Whether Bryan gets the pay off at Mania itself or before then? I don't know. But it's silly to say that he won't come out of this a bigger star. Punk did just fine and he didn't get anything close to what's going on now. Even if it doesn't involve Bryan come Wrestlemania, he's still getting a major rub. 

And I know you're going to Wrestlemania so all I'm going to say to you is not to ruin it for yourself. I don't know if you've been before but that doesn't really matter. If all you're going to do between now and then is complain about everything then you're just going to end up ruining it for yourself because by the time April rolls around, all the whining will have taken its toll. Lighten up and just roll with it. Bryan is getting pushed NOW. Enjoy it while it lasts and you never know, it might last a lot longer than you think.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

I have never wanted a WM, long term, star making angle is be as great as I want this to be because yes, I am going. But if this all leads to HHH V Cena with Cena OVER COMING DEM ODDZ to close the show. I will complain on the internet like never before.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

So complain if/when it happens. There's no point psyching yourself out 8 MONTHS AWAY from the show itself. If you want to do that, go right ahead but I think you're silly if you do. I don't particularly want Cena/HHH myself. The one match I'm busting to see is Cena/Taker but the truth is, I don't know what the hell I want any more. I just know that I'm going and I'm going to make the most out of whatever the card ends up looking like because I will not under any circumstance ruin this for myself. I paid too much money to do that and I know I'll have a great time regardless. It's Wrestlemania. At the end of the day it's still Wrestlemania and you're still going to be there.

If Cena/HHH bothers you that much and it main events all you have to do is leave early.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> Just watched team Raw vs team Smackdown from Survivor Series 2005 good match imo 4 stars.
> 
> What's everyone's favorite Survivor Series team matches ?


Team Austin vs Team Bischoff Survivor Series 2003.



Starbuck said:


> Looks like we're set for some awesome team wars to round out the year. Battleground and Survivor Series are perfect for this.
> 
> HHH/Orton/Shield vs. some combination of Bryan/Ziggler/Show/Henry/Punk/Cena perhaps?


That would be great. :mark:

Would be good to have a important big team match at Survivor Series again.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Elimination matches have always been some of my favorites. It could be because even if you know which team will win there is still mystery involved. Survivor Series elimination matches are always interesting to me. Only a few over the years have been crappy.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Would be good to have a important big team match at Survivor Series again.


Agreed. The last Survivor Series elimination tag match that felt important was the RAW vs Smackdown elimination tag match at Survivor Series 05. It would be great to see this year's elimination tag match at Survivor Series consisting of big names while the mid-carders get an elimination tag match of their own.


----------



## vk79 (May 5, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Of course he's losing at NOC. Why should he triumph just one month into the storyline? It would be stupid to have him win so soon. Have him lose at NOC by getting screwed, have him lose at HIAC by possibly getting his shit kicked in by all the Corporation members inside the Cell. This sets up the other guys to step in and say enough is enough which brings us to team wars for Battleground and Survivor Series. TLC I don't know what they do there but it's only a month away from the Rumble. I'm sure they can come up with something to fill the time until Bryan gets put in at number 1 but ends up winning the Rumble. Then he'll either get Orton or HHH for the title at Wrestlemania I guess.
> 
> If that doesn't happen and it ends up being Cena or a part timer then whatever. Bryan will still come out of it a much bigger star than when he went in. It would be unfortunate if that happened but I'm willing to go out on a limb and give them the benefit of the doubt. I never thought they would have the balls to pull a storyline like this but they have and they've gone all out in doing so. If they can do this then they can do anything. Who the hell knows where it's going? I'm just happy they switched things up for the first time in almost a decade. How about we enjoy the journey for a change instead of bitching about the destination before it even happens.


Agree with this !100%. I really feel we are going to get lucky from this entire story. I know WWE screws up a lot of story lines and pushes but this time it just feels different. I think Bryan is on his way to becoming a true Mega Star.


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

Brock Lesnar vs CM Punk - ****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm only interested in MELTZER's ratings. :troll

Has he posted them yet? I need a baseline for my ratings so that I can adjust them 1/4* either way and come off as original.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Of course he's losing at NOC. Why should he triumph just one month into the storyline? It would be stupid to have him win so soon. Have him lose at NOC by getting screwed, have him lose at HIAC by possibly getting his shit kicked in by all the Corporation members inside the Cell. This sets up the other guys to step in and say enough is enough which brings us to team wars for Battleground and Survivor Series. TLC I don't know what they do there but it's only a month away from the Rumble. I'm sure they can come up with something to fill the time until Bryan gets put in at number 1 but ends up winning the Rumble. Then he'll either get Orton or HHH for the title at Wrestlemania I guess.


(Y)

People need to understand build here. The super hero doesn't beat the bad guy 10 minutes into the movie. There's a reason the epic final showdown is at the end. The crowd support, the constant obstacles, Bryan's passion.... when Bryan finally gets his retribution on these guys it's going to be amazing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> I'm only interested in MELTZER's ratings. :troll
> 
> Has he posted them yet? I need a baseline for my ratings so that I can adjust them 1/4* either way and come off as original.


I'm sure he gave Lesnar/Punk ***3/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, this feud isn't gonna just end up having Bryan... or anyone besides Orton with the belt until at the very least Battle Ground, if not Hell in a Cell. Because of that, I don't think I'll be ordering NOC (and if someone else doesn't for me, won't be the first PPV I watch in forever). Plus Punk's doing nothing of importance... or at least it seems. Even if he was gonna fight Heyman at NOC, I'm not sure that would be enough. 

As far as the Mania situation goes, Cena/HHH can happen for all I care, so long as it's not for the WWE Title, and it's not the main event (both of which I don't expect to be happening for it). Only thing is with that, Bryan doesn't have a legit Main Event opportunity for Mania unless he faces Punk for the belt, or they decide to do Lesnar/Bryan... which could happen, but yeah. So it would have to be some combination of Punk/Lesnar/Bryan for the title.

It is beginning to look like that Mania card could be what's shaping up to happen (Punk/Bryan for the title, Taker/Lesnar, Cena/HHH), which isn't too bad, but there are certainly better options.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> I'm sure he gave Lesnar/Punk ***3/4


He said in his live coverage write-up that he liked Lesnar/Punk more than Bryan/Cena, and he said Bryan/Cena was "tremendous," so I can't see him going lower than ****1/4 for Lesnar/Punk.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

zep81 said:


> I'm sure he gave Lesnar/Punk ***3/4


No. Some FOOL was just trolling. They will be out tomorrow.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Arnold Tricky said:


> (Y)
> 
> People need to understand build here. The super hero doesn't beat the bad guy 10 minutes into the movie. There's a reason the epic final showdown is at the end. The crowd support, the constant obstacles, Bryan's passion.... when Bryan finally gets his retribution on these guys it's going to be amazing.


You gotta understand (s)marks are gonna (s)mark. Daniel Bryan is the BEST technical wrestler in the world. He's the best best in the world. Thus, he can never lose a match.

What is build? IT'S STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> No. Some FOOL was just trolling. They will be out tomorrow.





The Lady Killer said:


> He said in his live coverage write-up that he liked Lesnar/Punk more than Bryan/Cena, and he said Bryan/Cena was "tremendous," so I can't see him going lower than ****1/4 for Lesnar/Punk.


 Doh! Should have realised, although Ol' Dave has had some 'interesting' ratings before.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Arnold Tricky said:


> (Y)
> 
> People need to understand build here. The super hero doesn't beat the bad guy 10 minutes into the movie. There's a reason the epic final showdown is at the end. The crowd support, the constant obstacles, Bryan's passion.... when Bryan finally gets his retribution on these guys it's going to be amazing.


Well said. People seem to want the payoff one week into the angle and there's already a shitload of complaining about how Bryan is going to get buried or that Orton sucks because they didn't like his promo that consisted of 3 lines.

Bryan will be fine because he beat Cena CLEAN 100%. He's not gonna be tossed aside and beaten down every time it matters, a la Ryback or face Orton in 2004.

My favorite Wrestlemania line-up would have to be:
HHH vs Bryan
Rock vs Orton
Brock vs Taker
Cena vs Punk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Well said. People seem to want the payoff one week into the angle and there's already a shitload of complaining about how Bryan is going to get buried or that Orton sucks because they didn't like his promo that consisted of 3 lines.


rton

Holy shit, that was the longest 3 lines in my life.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Is it just me or is Finlay vs Rey from SD 06 fuckin great!? Just saw it for the first time and daamn.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Is it just me or is Finlay vs Rey from SD 06 fuckin great!? Just saw it for the first time and daamn.


The Smackdown 6/9/06 one or the Smackdown 9/8/06 one?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Don't think it was either of them lol I thought it was before Wrestlemania? I could be wrong Randy interferes if that helps. I guess I just forgot how good Finlay was.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

24/3/2006. I don't like that one very much, prefer their SD match before SummerSlam when Rey wrestles as if his mind is off it and is distracted by Chavo's heel turn.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

ATF said:


> Black Show _(my name for Show & Henry)_


Could be worse, could be Nig Show :argh:



Starbuck said:


> Have him lose at NOC by getting screwed, have him lose at HIAC by possibly getting his shit kicked in by all the Corporation members inside the Cell. This sets up the other guys to step in and say enough is enough which brings us to team wars for Battleground and Survivor Series.


Battleground is before Hell in a Cell is it not?


Not sure how the Bryan chase will go down. Will he get a straight rematch at Night of Champions? Probably, but it'd seem weird that the McMahons would even allow it. Regardless of the rematch clause. Even if it goes ahead surely everyone knows it'd just be another screwjob unless there's a stipulation where nobody can interfere. And that's not going to happen until there's a face authority figure. Bring back Shane! :vince2

If I was to hazard a guess, I'd say next week's main event is Bryan vs Shield 3-on-1 and if Bryan wins he gets his rematch clause. Presumably he does with an aid from Ziggler, Show and/or Henry.

Overall, the big question is 1. when will Bryan win back the title and 2. is this before or after he conquers Triple H in a match?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm so torn on this, since I'd love Punk to get his deserved main event spot at Mania, preferably with the title in the picture, but I won't be choosy. I'd also love to see Bryan make a big chase for the title against Orton/Trips/McMahons on a big stage. Looking forward to seeing how everything plays out. 

Trips/Orton/Shield on a team at Survivor Series or Battleground plz.


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> I'm so torn on this, since I'd love Punk to get his deserved main event spot at Mania, preferably with the title in the picture, but I won't be choosy. I'd also love to see Bryan make a big chase for the title against Orton/Trips/McMahons on a big stage. Looking forward to seeing how everything plays out.
> 
> Trips/Orton/Shield on a team at Survivor Series or Battleground plz.


Both could turn out if they go with Bryan/Punk for the title in the main event. I can't see Orton being champion walking into Mania, but I can't see Bryan winning the title before Mania either. Punk walks in as champ with Bryan having won the Rumble? I think Bryan deserves to win the title at Mania rather than walk in as champ.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> My favorite Wrestlemania line-up would have to be:
> HHH vs Bryan
> Rock vs Orton
> Brock vs Taker
> Cena vs Punk


Thats a near perfect card for the main players of today's WWE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best Finlay/Rey is 9/11/07 (*or 11/9/07, either way there's an 11 and a 9 in there somewhere).



haribo said:


> Could be worse, could be Nig Show :argh:


:lmao


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

My ideal WM would look something like:

Bryan/Trips - WWE Championship
Corporate Cena/CM Punk
Orton/Ziggler (Ziggler getting a strong push on the face side of the storyline)
Taker/Kane vs The Shield
Lesnar/Sheamus
RVD/Cesaro/Henry - World Heavyweight Championship
MITB: Del Rio vs Mysterio vs Kidd vs Gabriel vs Rhodes vs Swagger vs Christian
Prime Time Players vs Fandango & Drew McIntyre - Tag titles

Fairly unrealistic, but I'd mark for it.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Enjoyed Cena/Bryan more on a second viewing more than watching live. Possibly due to just waiting to see what happened with Orton.

Punk/Lesnar - ****3/4
Cena/Bryan - ****1/2
Del Rio/Christian - ***3/4

One of the greatest WWE PPV's of all time for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't think of a whole card for WM30, but here's my ideal "big 3":

Punk vs. Lesnar for the WWE Title (the main event)
Taker vs. Cena (the biggest match on the card)
Bryan vs. HHH (the conclusion of the current storyline going on)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ That would likely be my top 3 as well.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

There's no way Taker/Cena happens and doesn't main event.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It would be horrible Taker's last WM match not to main-event


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Royal Rumble Winner CM Punk
John Cena vs. Undertaker
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan

WWE Championship: John Cena (c) vs. CM Punk
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan

Either of these two would be my ideal 'Mania card.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I never said it would be Taker's last match.

Taker/Cena CAN happen and main event, but if Rock, Lesnar, or HHH is involved with the WWE Title, chances are that's main eventing (unless it's two part-timers like Rock/HHH, Rock/Lesnar or... god no... Lesnar/HHH).


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

PLZ no Rock this year. For the love of god.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> WWE Championship: Brock Lesnar (c) vs. Royal Rumble Winner CM Punk
> John Cena vs. Undertaker
> Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan
> 
> ...


Your first card would also be my ideal card, but I'm not sure it can happen unless they negotiate another date for Lesnar to win the title, as I believe he only has one more PPV (Mania 30) on his current contract. Also, that'd be two years in a row of the WWE Champ only appearing sporadically to build the match.


----------



## TheeJayBee (Aug 24, 2011)

I know Kurt Angle gets ragged on a bit in this thread, but some of his Kurt Angle Invitational matches are brilliant for what they are. I've just watched his match against Roderick Strong from Smackdown in early-2005, and damn it, it's awesome for a squash match. It starts with Roderick Strong slapping the shit out of Angle, then the bell rings. Angle chases him down and literally beats the shit out of him. It looks _brutal_. Kurt put in a fantastic performance, imo.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Your first card would also be my ideal card, but I'm not sure it can happen unless they negotiate another date for Lesnar to win the title, as I believe he only has one more PPV (Mania 30) on his current contract. Also, that'd be two years in a row of the WWE Champ only appearing sporadically to build the match.


I do remember reading that if WWE offered more money, Lesnar would make more dates. Not sure how legit it is though, but it makes sense. What else is Lesnar doing? As for the title, I can agree, but I can also let it slide because of the match they gave us at SS, and the fan in me just wants to see Punk win the belt at the top of the show. :side:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'm sure they could negotiate something if that's the intended direction. I'd love for Brock to win the title before Mania, but it also begs the question of from whom would he win it? As of now, Orton/HHH/Bryan/Punk are viable champs until Cena returns. Maybe Cena returns early and wins the title and Lesnar wins it from him at RR or EC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have a feeling that Brock will face Taker next year so no title feuds. Although there's a chance that they would go through with the Rock match that has been talked about.



Brye said:


> PLZ no Rock this year. For the love of god.


PLZ MORE ROCK NEXT YEAR!

I would love to see him get involved in the corporate storyline since he was the original corporate champ.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really wish Lesnar would work some extra dates. It's so tough for these feuds to work without proper weekly build. Heyman does a good job of bridging it but it just sucks that we always know when Brock will be there.

edit: pls no, I can't take another Rock 'match'. :argh:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

TheeJayBee said:


> I know Kurt Angle gets ragged on a bit in this thread, but some of his Kurt Angle Invitational matches are brilliant for what they are. I've just watched his match against Roderick Strong from Smackdown in early-2005, and damn it, it's awesome for a squash match. It starts with Roderick Strong slapping the shit out of Angle, then the bell rings. Angle chases him down and literally beats the shit out of him. It looks _brutal_. Kurt put in a fantastic performance, imo.


 My favourite match is the one with Matt Striker where he taps out with just one second remaining.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Brye said:


> I really wish Lesnar would work some extra dates. It's so tough for these feuds to work without proper weekly build. Heyman does a good job of bridging it but it just sucks that we always know when Brock will be there.
> 
> edit: pls no, I can't take another Rock 'match'. :argh:


That being said, him only working a few PPVs a year have made his matches feel that much more special.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

No doubt I'm going to get slaughtered in this thread for saying this but are people really supporting Brock Lesnar as a champion? I don't mind it but I remember the same fans bashing the Rock for his lack of appearances in TV and live events. Lesnar isn't the guy to work house shows...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd be OK with it because I love Brock, but I can see why those would be opposed for obvious reasons.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> No doubt I'm going to get slaughtered in this thread for saying this but are people really supporting Brock Lesnar as a champion? I don't mind it but I remember the same fans bashing the Rock for his lack of appearances in TV and live events. Lesnar isn't the guy to work house shows...


Well Lesnar's loved on this forum while The Rock is mostly disliked... that should explain it for you. 

I wouldn't mind it though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

In fairness to Lesnar, at least they can use his character to excuse the lack of appearances. He can easily say that he is the champion and he will only show up when he feels like it. Pretty similar to what he said to Cena in the contract signing segment.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> That being said, him only working a few PPVs a year have made his matches feel that much more special.


That's very true.

I think the only reason some think Lesnar looks 'weak' in his matches is because there aren't squash matches and dominant performances on Raw/SD against non-main eventers to compare it to. I'm fine with main eventers getting in some offense on him though, as we've seen. That tailed off a bit but it's fresh in my mind.

Edit: Good point. The Brock character itself doesn't give a fuck.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

As someone who likes Rock and Brock about equally (come at me haters) I don't think either of them should be champ at this point cuz they are not full timers. It makes no sense for someone to have the belt and not be on tv that much. Brock doesn't need to work house shows per se but if they are going to put the belt on him (which I think will happen sometime in 2014) he needs to be on Raw like 2-3 times a month and at every PPV. No idea what Brock's contract looks like at this point. 

For those who hate Rock I will meet you half way his match with Cena at WM 29 was terrible as were his matches with Punk but at the same time it's the Rock which equals money and attention. He will come back as much as he wants to because Vince loves him as do a good amount of fans.....bottom line. 

I'm hoping the top few matches at Mania 30 (winners in bold) to look like this.....

*Taker* v Cena
Rock v *Brock* (huge pay day)
*Punk *v HHH 
Orton (as WWE champ) v *Bryan*
Sandow (WHC champ) v *Cesaro* v Dolph for the WHC

I REALLY want Taker/Brock and Punk/Bryan at mania but they can save that for Mania 31 at Cowboy Stadium when my ass is there


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TheeJayBee said:


> I know Kurt Angle gets ragged on a bit in this thread, but some of his Kurt Angle Invitational matches are brilliant for what they are. I've just watched his match against Roderick Strong from Smackdown in early-2005, and damn it, it's awesome for a squash match. It starts with Roderick Strong slapping the shit out of Angle, then the bell rings. Angle chases him down and literally beats the shit out of him. It looks _brutal_. Kurt put in a fantastic performance, imo.



I think I'm in the minority of people who actually really like Kurt Angle, and consider him one of the top 10 ring workers ever. Yes his psychology left A LOT to be desired, but man he could really go when he was in the ring with the right opponent. I even enjoy his stuff with Benoit, some of the worst wrestling psychology you will ever see is in those matches but I really don't care. Those matches are the equivelant of a bad ass Hollywood action flick to me like Rambo or Diehard. The lack of artistry or storytelling is compensated with it just being an action packed ass kicking fest. The following matches are the "Hollywood action flick" matches that I love from Angle

1. Angle vs HBK at Mania
2. Angle vs Stone Cold at SS (this one actually has pretty sound psychology)
3. Angle vs Benoit at Royal Rumble
4. Angle vs Lesnar Iron Man match
5. Angle vs Benoit Cage Match on Raw
6. Angle vs Shane McMahon at KoR
7. Angle vs Lesnar at SS


That's a résumé of 7 matches I'd put up against almost anyone. I really don't understand the hate he gets


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I think I'm in the minority of people who actually really like Kurt Angle, and consider him one of the top 10 ring workers ever. Yes his psychology left A LOT to be desired, but man he could really go when he was in the ring with the right opponent. I even enjoy his stuff with Benoit, some of the worst wrestling psychology you will ever see is in those matches but I really don't care. Those matches are the equivelant of a bad ass Hollywood action flick to me like Rambo or Diehard. The lack of artistry or storytelling is compensated with it just being an action packed ass kicking fest. The following matches are the "Hollywood action flick" matches that I love from Angle
> 
> 1. Angle vs HBK at Mania
> 2. Angle vs Stone Cold at SS (this one actually has pretty sound psychology)
> ...


Excellent post. I totally agree. Angle was awesome in all of those matches. I'd also put Angle v Taker at No Way Out in 2006 up against any  match the last 7-10 years. If that match happened at Mania? Good God!!:mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Eh, I like Kurt Angle and think he is a great performer. I just hate how he spams his finishers and applies generic ametuer wrestling holds when the pace of a match is at it's highest. Otherwise, I have no problems with him as a worker. His match Austin at Summerslam 01 and Taker at No Out Way 06 are perfect examples of Angle being a top-notch worker when hes following a specific structure to a match and sticks to it. Angle's babyface performance in that Austin match was incredible.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

The big three matches I'd like to see are slightly ambitous and realistically I am coming to terms with the idea of Cena/HHH or Cena/Orton, I agree with Starbuck about not expecting too much as that's when things never match what you want to happen and since 30 will be my first WrestleMania I just want to enjoy the ride. 

Option A (With Rock/Austin) 

John Cena vs The Undertaker
The Rock/Stone Cold vs Brock Lesnar
WWE Championship
Daniel Bryan vs Triple H 

Option B (no Rock/Austin)

WWE Championship
CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar II 
John Cena vs The Undertaker
Daniel Bryan vs Triple H 

I have no problem with Lesnar walking in as champion, even if that means the champions is only on sporadically throughout the built, I don't think it deters from the show, especially WrestleMania season when so many stars are on and their is enough content to keep the show fine. Heyman's a great mouthpeice for him anyway and it would essentially be the culminated of Punk/Heyman.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> No doubt I'm going to get slaughtered in this thread for saying this but are people really supporting Brock Lesnar as a champion? I don't mind it but I remember the same fans bashing the Rock for his lack of appearances in TV and live events. Lesnar isn't the guy to work house shows...


I'm a huge fan of what Brock's done, but I don't support any kind of title reign for him, mainly because I didn't like that Rock wasn't even there a good portion of the time he was champion (and I'm not even talking about his match quality). So, me being cool with Lesnar being champ if he's not there full time, wouldn't be right given how I felt about Rock being champ. Dem morals.

I'm also actually on the fence about Brock/Rock. Now I obviously think Brock/Taker would be the better match, but part of me thinks that Brock could get a good match out of Rock. We know Rock can sell, and we know how awesome Brock is, so MAYBE that match wouldn't suck completely. Or I'm just too optimistic.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. 1996 feud*



Spoiler: Matches & Promos



*WCW Great American Bash (06/16/1996) - WCW World Cruiserweight Championship: Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.*
This is Rey’s debut, the early portion of the match was both Rey and Dean do some sweet escapes and counters out of wristlocks and they both mange to add in a double kip up before Dean uses what little part of height and weight to ground Rey, but that doesn’t last long as Rey uses his quickness to stay away from Dean which included a lucha armdrag and a Springboard dropkick takes Malenko off the apron to the floor. Back in, Mysterio sunset flips OVER Malenko out of a knuckle lock, but Malenko rolls through that and catapults Rey over the top rope to the floor. Rey avoids a baseball slide, and Dean uses this time to rethink he game plan. Back in, and Dean begins to target Rey’s arm and it is vicious. He tries so hard to rip the arm out of socket and to make it look as brutal as possible. At one point Rey tries to fight back and actually hits a walks up the ropes to dropkick and then tries the running hurracanrana in the corner but Dean counters it into a clothesline and goes right back to the arm for a couple of minutes. Rey begins to make a comeback but Dean would counter it into a butterfly suplex for two, then goes back to the arm, and the fans begin to get even more upset :lmao So Dean still wanting to keep Rey grounded he applies the “surfboard” But Rey manages to slips out into a bridge from Malenko which only gets a 2 count :mark: Butterfly suplex gets another two count, and Dean decides to work another armbar. Rey finally counters and sends Malenko to the floor, Rey then hits him with a springboard somersault splash! And then a Springboard missile dropkick by Rey for a near fall. They do the counter pin-fall spot, which each man getting at least 3 near falls. And Rey would roll out of the ring and hit the SPRINGBOARD HURRACANRANA which gets a two. Malenko catches him on the top rope, however, but Mysterio hits another rana off the top. Malenko goes for a tilt-a-whirl but Rey falls on top for two. Mysterio jumps up on Malenko’s shoulders and tries a spinning hurracanrana, but Malenko sees it coming and Powerbombs Rey down and puts his feet on the ropes to pick up the win. It’s a shame Rey totally forgot about the 10 minutes of arm work done to him, but other than that this was great debut for Rey and another showcase of Dean’s goodness. ***3/4

*WCW Monday Night Nitro 06/17/1996 - WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.*
Mean Gene interviews Rey Mysterio Jr. before the match, Rey says he wants the title and he didn’t like Dean cheating to win the match. He then speaks some Spanish before making his way to the ring. More great mat work to start which had Rey landing on his feet smooth after a monkey slip, and he even hit a springboard moonsault and catches Dean with this AWESOME! Roll-up which looked like he had the title won but Dean would kick out and klled him with a clothesline. Dean now begins to work on Rey’s back, with this killa “Half Boston-Crab” with the knee on the back of the head. Malenko delivers a brain buster for two, but then gets crotched up top. Mysterio avoids a diving Malenko, but gets caught for an electric chair drop for a 2 count. Dean then applies a sick stretch and then further tries to kill Rey with a Powerbomb but Rey is able to kick out. Fallaway slam gets another two, and Dean put Rey in the camel clutch just for fun before throwing him out of the ring. Mysterio reverses a whip into the guardrail and then delivers a springboard head scissors from the inside out :mark: Back in, Mysterio hits a sunset flip Powerbomb but Dean kicks out. Dean tries to hit a crucifix bomb but Rey counters into a magnificent victory roll for a near-fall. Mysterio gets another near-fall, but then Malenko blocks a wheelbarrow move into a reverse DDT for the win. Great TV match here, lots of fun near-falls and it didn’t have long rest holds to kill time. ***

*WCW Monday Night Nitro 07/08/1996 - WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.*
Rey beat Psychosis @ Bash at the Beach 1996 for this title shot. Oh and this Nitro is outside, I think near the Disney/MGM Studios or outside. Dean tries to take it to the ground early on but he’s unable to keep him grounded for long as Rey takes Malenko to the floor early on with a headscissors over the shoulders and a satellite armdrag. Mysterio fake dean out with the 619 dive, Back in and Malenko tries a suplex, but Rey flips out and tries a quebrada. He gets caught, but shoves Malenko off into the corner for a sunset flip off the shoulder attempt but he avoids the punch and levels Malenko with a springboard dropkick for a 2 count. Mysterio escapes a Powerbomb attempt with an armdrag, but Malenko finally stops this guy with a tilt-a-whirl backbreaker, and applies the camel clutch as we got to commercial. Tiger Driver gets two by Dean and he applies the camel clutch again, he breaks the hold and whips Rey into the ropes but Rey counters it into a quick roll-up for a 2 which pissed of Dean so he front suplexes Rey onto the top rope hanging him out to dry and Rey falls to the ground. Rey manages to roll back in and Dean u a reversed chin lock and to further add damage he leg scissors’ his body, but Rey get to the ropes so Dean just throws him out. AND DELIVERS A FUCKIN’ BRAINBUSTER ON THE OUTSIDE! Back in, that gets two. Mysterio ranas Malenko to the floor and tries an Asai Moonsault, but Malenko doesn’t get up in time to catch him and Mysterio goes SPLAT on the concrete. Back in, and Mysterio connects with a flying headscissors from the top for a two, Split-legged moonsault gets two. Mysterio heads up, but gets crotched and taken down with the SUPER GUTBUSTER! :mark: Dean goes for a cover but pulls Rey up at two, WHAT? Belly to belly throw, but Malenko lifts Mysterio off the mat again. Malenko goes for a tilt-a-whirl, but Mysterio counters into a hurracarana and hold the roll through for the win. HOLY SHIT! ***1/4 - ***1/2 

*WCW Saturday Night 07/13/1996 - WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psychosis*
The crowd is super-hot early on with both men trading mat holds until they take this ugly fall (Psychosis is no Dean) Thankfully Rey makes up for it with these sick revolutions and flips before Psychosis drops him throat first on the top rope before we get a Dean Malenko promo while the match is going on :lmao Anyway Psychosis continues to stay in control but Rey counters sending him to the floor and connects with a sunset flip plancha over the top landing on Psychosis. Rey looks like he injured his knee but he still manages to hit a springboard sunset flip and he tries to bounce off the ropes again but Psychosis hits a clothesline and taunts the crowd. In the corner and Psychosis hits this weak chop and tries to do the same in the opposite corner but Rey counters and hits and an off headscissors take down, he didn’t catch the head but instead he uses the hair to take him down :lmao Psychosis comes charging in but Rey catches him and hits a perfect looking tilt-a-whirl backbreaker (Very Dean Malenko Like) Standing moonsault gets a two, and Psychosis hits the whip into the corner he comes charging in with the dropkick but Rey moves and Psychosis crashes and burns. This allows Rey to hit this magnificent running springboard hurracarana for the win. Post-Match: Gene interviews with Rey; he talks about Dean giving him 3 matches and he accepts Dean’s challenge before ending the interview by speaking in Spanish. ***

*WCW Monday Night Nitro 07/15/1996 - Rey Mysterio Jr. Video package*

*WCW Clash of the Champions XXXII (08/15/1996) - WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko*
Dean attacks him before the bell start, but that doesn’t last long as Mysterio slides out and makes Malenko give chase just to screw with him a little bit. Rey dropkicks Malenko off the apron and delivers a baseball slide into a headscissors. Back in the ring, and the FUCKIN’ VIDEO OUTS OUT  FUCK MY LIFE. It finally comes back 3 minutes later and Dean has him locked up in a bodyscissors with a front face lock. And we go to a commercial FUCK YOU! We come back to see Mysterio fighting out of a chinlock. Malenko launches him HIGH onto the middle rope. He springboards back onto Malenko trying a wheelbarrow armdrag, but Malenko blocks and goes for the reverse suplex. Mysterio flips out and trips Malenko up for a roll-up with a bridge for a two. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE SPOT OF THE DECADE IF IT WASS SMOOTH  Malenko puts a knee bar on, but Rey rolls through into the ropes though. Mysterio escapes another chinlock and trips Malenko up out to the floor to avoid an O’Connor roll. Down on the floor, Mysterio leaps off the guardrail for a moonsault, but Malenko is hardly there to catch him. :lmao that’s like the 2nd time that’s happen in this feud. Back in, and Rey hits springboard dropkick for 2. Malenko falls back on a tilt-a-whirl and Rey scores another near fall. Springboard Hurracarana gets another 2.Malenko backs Rey into the corner and up, and absolutely kills Rey with a SUPER GUTBUSTER! For the win, BUT WAIT! Rey had his foot on the ropes and Malenko thinks he’s won, NO! Mysterio quickly hits a victory roll for the real win. 

*WCW Saturday Night 09/28/1996 – Rey Mysterio Jr. Interview*
Tony Schiavone interviews Rey; Rey calls Dean the toughest guy he’s faced so far and he respects him. Tony asks him the last time they faced Dean gave him one too many opportunities to win and Rey says he’s gonna keep the belt. Tony then brings Dean in who says he will bring the belt back and he shakes Rey’s hand but attacks him and then STEALS THE MASK, OH SHIT! 

*WCW Saturday Night 10/05/1996 - Dean Malenko interview*
We get the final seconds of Dean killing some jobber with a tiger driver and the cloverleaf for the win. Post-Match Tony Schiavone interviews Dean, who is still holding the mask. Tony says he knows what the mask means to Rey and asks him why? And Dean says he took the mask to let Rey know what it feels like to have something he loves get taken away from him. And he will get his title back.

*WCW Saturday Night 10/19/1996 - Dean Malenko interview*
Again we get the finish of the match only, but this time Dean looks like he’s going for “Cattle Mutilation” but instead rolls to his back so it looks like he has the dragon suplex pin for the win, THIS FUCKIN’ GUY! Post-Match: Dean holds the mask up again, and Tony Schiavone says he’s on a hot streak and Dean says last week he beat some guy and this week he beat Alex Wright just so show lightning does not strike twice when you face Dean Malenko.

*WCW Monday Night Nitro 10/21/1996 - Rey Mysterio Jr. Video promo*
We get another video package highlighting all of Rey’s moves, and sure the vid is cool but the music they added is some awful non-racist generic theme. It’s one of the songs you hear when you watch those shitty movies for men films. 

*WCW Halloween Havoc (10/27/1996) - WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko*
Malenko brings Rey’s mask that he stole and places it in the corner for motivation and a little mind games. Tenay is on commentary for this cause he knows names of the moves. Dean boots down Rey before the bell and gets a quick two count. He picks him by the waist and slams him down and goes for the Cloverleaf, but Mysterio shrugs it off. And catches a quebrada and a rana, but a satellite headscissors puts him on the floor as Mysterio fools him with the fake 619 dive. On the apron, and hits Rey with a forearm but he gets distracted when he starts looking at the mask. This allows Rey to springboard dropkicks him sending him crashing to the floor and then somersaults right on top of Malenko. He grabs the mask and takes off the new one and slips the old one on. That fires Mysterio up momentarily as he catches Dean with a couple headscissors into near falls, but Malenko blocks one with a side slam. Malenko grabs him but gets rolled up for a two count. Rey charges him but is grabbed and put in a side suplex. Malenko takes his time and picks him up in a front suplex and just tosses him onto the ropes knees first. Dean then body slams him and puts him in a half crab wrenching the knee back. He grabs the arm and drives his foot into the small of his back and applies some serious pressure, while Rey screams in pain. He breaks the hold and then takes Rey up top and delivers a superplexes for 2. Malenko snaps him over and then applies a headscissors, but Rey gets to the ropes and Dean would get another two count after a delayed vertical suplex. Malenko is up first and low dropkicks him in the back then applies a clutch as he stretches Rey's head back so it touches his back, well he tries to. He breaks the hold for some reason, and decides and gives him a spinning backbreaker but is slow to cover and gets a two count. Rey starts to crawls to the apron and Dean pulls him to the floor and rams him back first into the side of the ring and rolls him back in, where he puts Rey in a sleeper. Rey gets arm up at the third attempt and elbows free but Malenko grasps the head and bounces it off the canvas and he reapplies the sleeper. The ref rises up the arm again and Rey keeps it up the third time as he delivers a sweet belly to belly overhead suplex which gets a 2 count. They both fight up and on the top rope but both knock each other off the top and hit the apron on the way down. Rey would whip him into the rail and jumps on his back; he would try for a hurracarana but slipped off so instead he would just punches Dean in the face, but that wouldn’t last long as Dean would hit a low blow. Back in the ring, and Rey hits a beautiful springboard somersault but is too slow to pin and only gets a two count. They switch around and go behind and Rey has him down and almost gets the win. But Malenko crushes him with a forearm and gives him another vertical suplex and he gets a two count. Malenko tries to grab Rey off of a whip but is led to the floor and Rey springboard flips right on top of him. Dean gets in the ring first and Rey follows hitting a hurracarana for a two count. He again springboards off the rope but Malenko Powerbombs him for the closest near-fall of the match, Dean drops Rey onto the apron and he goes for the super hurracarana but gets shoved off and Dean hits a with a SUPER DOCTORBOMB! For the win. **** - ****1/4

*WCW Saturday Night (11/09/1996) - WCW World Cruiserweight Championship: Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.*
This is the rematch, and before the match we get highlights from the Halloween Havoc 1996 match. Dean a clean break to start but Rey is still pissed so he drop kicks him. Rey then starts speeding the pace up and we get Psychosis promo :lmao When that finishes we see Rey going charging in but Dean catches him with a Alabama Slam :mark: Delayed suplex gets a 2, so Dean locks in a stretch, I wanna call it a abdominal stretch but Dean breaks the hold and hits a backbreaker for 2. Dean begins to stomp away on the back so Rey takes a little breather on the outside but as soon as he comes back Dean kills him with a gutbuster but doesn’t go for the pin, instead he whips Rey into the counter by Rey counters the electric chair and front rana’s Dean over the top to the floor. REY WITH THE PERFECT SUICIDE DIVE, back in and Rey hits a springboard sunset flip for two but Dean Stops all or Rey’s momentum with a butterfly tiger bomb. Dean then whips him into the ropes but fakes him out, but Rey fakes him out first and delivers an elbow. He would climb to the top and hit this diving move that I have no idea what it’s called for a 2 count. He then goes for another springboard but Dean catches him, Rey tries to rana out but Dean pushes him off and gets him in the backslide for the win. 5 minutes of goodness to end this feud. ***1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cleavage, that's a damn fine read on the Mysterio vs Malenko series.

Kurt Angle is pretty shit. I went into my 2002 project thinking he was the best that year. Pardon the matches vs Mysterio & Edge _(not Backlash)_ I've realized he's always been pretty lousy with the way he works his matches. Of course he has his matches out there that I love. Heck the Mysterio match from SummerSlam that was mention is easily one of them. If not my second favorite behind vs Austin @ SummerSlam '01, but eh. I find myself seeing more bad from the guy than good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I enjoy Angle as that batshit insane face that does a bunch of stupid crap to please us, but the man never really understood how to wrestle as a heel. There are very few instances where he changes up his act as a heel compared to as a face, and he doesn't seem to understand that heels are supposed to be despised in the ring. Really bothered me since I can't think of many good heel performances from him.

*EDIT:* I'm gonna go watch THE Eddie/Rey match on Smackdown from 2005 that I have only seen once before in my life. I remember liking it, but I also remember hating it because of the decision. Hopefully I truly see the greatness behind this match by the end of the night.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Cleavage again."

I've enjoyed your write-ups a ton. And I really like Dean Malenko and want to check out more of his stuff, so thanks for bringing this to my attention.

Also, I like Kurt also, but I understand why people don't. The match with Shane at KOTR is so awesome, though. It baffles me that a non-wrestler would put himself through so much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I enjoy Angle as that batshit insane face that does a bunch of stupid crap to please us, but the man never really understood how to wrestle as a heel. There are very few instances where he changes up his act as a heel compared to as a face, and he doesn't seem to understand that heels are supposed to be despised in the ring. Really bothered me since I can't think of many good heel performances from him.


Kurt captured being a goofy heel character well. Not so much in the matches, but as for segments go, he usually knew how to have fans boo him. Or outright laugh at him. His heel work in the ring is really atrocious looking back. He acts INTENSE instead of using real intangibles to have the audience & fans watching despise him. Being intense means nothing. Use tactics to cause heat. I'm also thinking of his last matches against Jeff Hardy while this topic is brought up. Not the horrendous 2010 stuff, the 2012 matches where Kurt is supposed to be getting heat against ultra babyface Hardy. It didn't happen. Kurt worked the matches how he would have if he was a face. It was tripe. There were no significant changes or any changes at all. Baffling.

Kurt is pretty solid as a tag team lad who can bust out his nutty offense on a hot tag. I've made this point numerous times. Then again, there are a lot of workers who benefit being in a tag team to hide their flaws. The key here is the have a functioning tag team match being the catalyst to help. Those tag matches with Benoit in 2002 were crap b/c it was over the top workrate the entire time and couldn't have any semblance of a more fitting tag team formula.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT UNCLEAN BREAK! God damn Eddie Guerrero is a saint. And now a powerbomb! No wonder this match was so highly ranked in the DVDVR list.

Dean Malenko is starting to get this reputation as a guy that was all workrate and no storytelling a la Lance Storm, but I always enjoyed him as a face. The Ultimo Dragon Starrcade match is a top 10 match in WCW history. Malenko didn't need to say a word; just the fact that he was all about business is enough for me to sympathize with him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio one of the most perfect matches I've ever seen. Anyone can watch it and know it once the 22 minutes or so are over.

I like Dean despite the times he worked bland. I'm the same way with Bret Hart, only to a lesser extent. I say that b/c while at the end of it all I did enjoy the forgotten Hart vs Austin match from Revenge of the Taker, it did have a portion where I was a bit disinterested. Really, they expected THAT to follow the excellent Undertaker vs Mankind match? Laughable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nothing else that hasn't already been said about Eddie/Rey needs to be said. It even surpassed the Halloween Havoc match that I love to death. Now to see if Rey/Orton 4/7/06 holds up. Only seen it once, but I only recall the ending.

Malenko's problem is that sometimes he just doesn't understand that his typical matwork style doesn't always work in certain occasions. For instance, in his match against Jericho at Great American Bash, even though this was the most heated feud in WCW at the time, Malenko for whatever reason chooses to mat wrestle instead of fight with Jericho. Complete 180 from the energy he showed at Slamboree.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seems to be similar to the Angle topic on a small degree. Not realizing the need for switching it up for the sake of the story & match at hand. A good point also brought up for the Austin vs Bret match I mentioned ^. WrestleMania they tore each other up. Then come the rematch it was an assault on the legs only & not much overall intensity. Yeah, Hart wanted to make sure Austin couldn't walk anymore, but the vicious streak didn't quite seem any different than any other calculated assault from Bret in past matches. Especially from the level where their Mania match was at.

Dean worked within his comfort zone. That much easy to see. I think that's why he never attempted to try and showcase a personality. It wasn't there, but there was no effort to allow it to branch out b/c he knew what he was familiar with and stuck to it. It was like GET ANGRY. Some nights it worked out very well and others it could have benefited with a tweak or two. Didn't quite show what he had till that night in the Georgia Dome where he went insane on Jericho and had to be arrested b/c he wouldn't stop trying to kill the obnoxious heel. Now that was a nice touch to the program.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So a bit off topic, but I just read on IMDB that Jack Nicholson is a fan of pro-wrestling. If true, that's fucking awesome!

Anyway, back to match talk. Oh, I see we're on the monthly Angle discussion. Yay!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We talk too much about the same guys here. How about some 1-2-3 Kid/X-Pac/Lightning Kid?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Malenko would usually hit his stuff really cleanly and neatly, but a lot of the time it would be almost TOO clean and neat. Like, it'd look like he and his opponent were CLEARLY not actually fighting. Yeah, this is wrestling, and it's rare when something looks like a total shoot, but Malenko's stuff can look sooooooo choreographed and pre-planned that it just comes off as an exhibition of gymnastics or something. This wasn't all the time, and I've seen Malenko matches in recent times that made me go 'shit, that ruled', but a lot of his 'main' matches aren't my thing. I'm scared to watch the Eddie stuff in ECW again. I liked/loved a bunch of their 97 feud in WCW, but that was all Eddie, and Malenko no sold Guerrero's leg work in like three different matches.

Cleavage or anybody else - did you see Rey/Malenko from Germany in 1997? I'd say easily their best match together (though I'm not much of a fan of GAB or Havoc any more), and Malenko worked really, really well on top. Probably his best performance to me, and at worst one of his top 3 matches. I could upload that to youtube if no one has a source for it. Slight warning, though - video quality is terrible. Ter.ri.ble.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh, I only mentioned the bit about Angle b/c I feared some numpty would call me out on "why" if I ended my post on just dubbing Angle as shit. Not like I'm contributing to the weekly Triple H or Randy Orton bullshit. Without counting the current angle b/c the real reason for discussing that is Danielson.

The only problem with X-Pac is he doesn't have any negatives. So the topic can't go as far. _(that's the joke of the thread right? easier to talk about guys flaws than it is them being amazing. Or else Finlay, Bobby Eaton, & Barry Windham would be more frequent)_

Kid is slick. Naturally he was one of the brighter parts of the New Generation era. Loved that match he had with Bam Bam Bigelow I posted some weeks back. Which is awesome b/c I wanted to find an excuse to talk about Triple B. On the fence _(only b/c of SO many options)_ of buying his best of comps off of IVP soon.


----------



## Stad (Apr 6, 2011)

Where can i find this?? is there a link for it on this forum?

Timeline: WWE - 1997 - Jim Cornette


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls: **** 1/4

Well, certainly not MOTY after SummerSlam imo. Still, great watch from start to end. 
Cesaro is growing on me it's just incredbile, he may be the most gifted inring worker the E ever had. Props to Zayn too, I hope he makes it far along with Tony.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm trying to do a Super Crazy project. I've got access to his WWE stuff through youtube but can anyone direct me where I can find some of his ECW stuff? I've always been a huge fan of his.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stad said:


> Where can i find this?? is there a link for it on this forum?
> 
> Timeline: WWE - 1997 - Jim Cornette


I posted a Youtube link not far back, I'll try and find it.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

So yeah...Cesaro/Zayn go watch that now please


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Downloading NXT as I type. 

:mark: x100

-------

Brye I think if you search in this thread or the older one the links that WOOLCOCK & Yeah1993 posted for Super Crazy matches may be up. Or maybe that was only Tajiri matches with Super Crazy in them. Dailymotion could always have a mess of his ECW work too. Wouldn't hurt looking there. Unless you have prior.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stad said:


> Where can i find this?? is there a link for it on this forum?
> 
> Timeline: WWE - 1997 - Jim Cornette







(Ignore the title, it is the Timeline lol)


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

guess I have to check Cesaro/Zayn to see the fuss about it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NXT from yesterday, i'm also interested in the Cesaro/Zayn match - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x13gvis_3rby-net-tna-wwe-nxt-8-21-2013_sport?search_algo=2

If it gets posted on YT (just the match), could someone link that here too.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Just watch it on Hulu.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who's going to pay when you can watch it for free?


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

It's for free Saby.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn 2/3 Falls ***** 1/4*

That ending :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First I've heard of that. No bother either considering it's already downloaded for me. Watching it first thing tomorrow.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm trying to do a Super Crazy project. I've got access to his WWE stuff through youtube but can anyone direct me where I can find some of his ECW stuff? I've always been a huge fan of his.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/megaposts/594110-super-crazy-vs-yoshihiro-tajiri.html

They're predominantly matches where he's facing Tajiri in some capacity, but it's a good starting point and I'm sure Youtube/Dailymotion might be able to assist you in tracking down other matches. Seabs has an ECW set so maybe he can supply you of any matches of Crazy's to look out for that might have made the comp 


As for Malenko, Jerri covered it well. His execution and technique is sublime but it just didn't translate well into a lot of matches and I find it to be the definition of exhibition wrestling which struggles to get you invested in the match. I also found a ton of his control segments against Mysterio primarily to be really poor during their series of matches. It's like he just relies on his visually impressive offence to guide the middle portion of the match but for the life of him he can't work a focused offence segment to build heat & make Rey's comeback mean something. I think he works better in sub ten minute outings where he can focus more on technical exchanges rather than having to build heat segments and comebacks for his opponent. The Norman Smiley Worldwide match for example is excellent and just sees Malenko exchange in a series of well fought for counters and holds.

Found a youtube link for Malenko/Mysterio in Germany '97. Might give it a watch today alongside Cesaro/Zayn III.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Malenko vs Smiley match is such an interesting one. If you approach it with the mentality that you're going to get sort of an atypical WCW style cruiserweight match, you'll be unprepared for what was given. The hold for hold work was done in a fashion that wasn't very commonly seen in mainstream wrestling. The transitions from hold to hold or counter to counter were done not in the "traditional" sense. I remember a bit of ground work in the first few minutes being a key lock, then shifted into a hammerlock, and then I think a head scissors. All in rapid succession. Where the goal wasn't to create any significant form of damage from each hold. Only to throw the opponent off on what the man on offense _(b/c idk which one it was. both did it, tbhayley)_ was going to try next. 

I'll second the Malenko in sub-ten minute matches being his stronger suit. vs Jericho from Slamboree was molten and only ran about seven minutes. Benefited him to capitalize on the immense heat of the crowd and work a swift match all in the same time. Matches vs Mysterio _(I did like 'em all)_ that were my favorites seemed to be the sprint bouts over the longer PPV bouts. I say this wanting to really, really watch the Halloween Havoc '96 match over again. I know it's good. And I know the finish is wicked. The bulk of the match seems to get blurred here and there. Want to see how well the control portion by Malenko is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Malenko's good at the shorties, yeah. Really like his matches with Smiley, Parka (which I'll watch again), Ohtani, Liger, and Disco Inferno at BATB96. That match rules, actually. I'm going to watch Malenko v. Mike Enos whenever I watch more Mike Enos matches sometime, too. I reckon at this point I consider Enos a legitimately better worker than Malenko. E-NOSSSS. Malenko's longer matches can get stuffed. Well not all of them. Eddie's all-star performances managed to make some really good shit in 1997 (even if I thought Dean was practically worthless selling the after-effects), the Rey match from Germany is definitely Malenko's best OnTop job (which I agree with WOOLCOCK are usually not interesting). LOVED the Ultimo match at Starrcade, which surprised the hell out of me b/c I kind of find Ultimo ridiculously overrated at this point along with Malenko (have for a few years, really). So yeah, Dean's got more goodies that I thought he might, but his worst is eye-stabbingly bad. Match with Benoit at Hog Wild 96 is one I will probably never, ever watch again. Just wouldn't fucking end.

Oh fuck, worst thing Malenko does is the 'pull head up after pin' spot. That literally ruined the otherwise fun as ASS 8/7/96 match with Rey for me. OK, use it to show off your MIGHTINESS and the fact you're dominating the match to the point where you can afford anything, but don't fucking use it in the real heat of the battle. HateHateHate that spot.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> The Malenko vs Smiley match is such an interesting one. If you approach it with the mentality that you're going to get sort of an atypical WCW style cruiserweight match, you'll be unprepared for what was given. The hold for hold work was done in a fashion that wasn't very commonly seen in mainstream wrestling. The transitions from hold to hold or counter to counter were done not in the "traditional" sense. I remember a bit of ground work in the first few minutes being a key lock, then shifted into a hammerlock, and then I think a head scissors. All in rapid succession. Where the goal wasn't to create any significant form of damage from each hold. Only to throw the opponent off on what the man on offense _(b/c idk which one it was. both did it, tbhayley)_ was going to try next.
> 
> I'll second the Malenko in sub-ten minute matches being his stronger suit. vs Jericho from Slamboree was molten and only ran about seven minutes. Benefited him to capitalize on the immense heat of the crowd and work a swift match all in the same time. Matches vs Mysterio _(I did like 'em all)_ that were my favorites seemed to be the sprint bouts over the longer PPV bouts. I say this wanting to really, really watch the Halloween Havoc '96 match over again. I know it's good. And I know the finish is wicked. The bulk of the match seems to get blurred here and there. Want to see how well the control portion by Malenko is.


I thought it was excellent personally. Smiley's technique resembled a classic WOS/European chain wrestling and it meshed well with Malenko's more traditional technical reversals. They built a nice pace and the exchanges balanced being intricate and eye catching yet fought for and uncooperative really well.

I remember loving the beginning and climax of Malenko/Rey HH '96 but Malenkos' haphazard and unfocused control segment did take me out of the match greatly. With a more polished middle I'd probably consider it their best match and a true gem (might still actually be their best match for me because I don't remember liking any THAT much) since Mysterio is tremendous and the opening saw a more vicious and emotive Malenko rather than the soulless technician.



Yeah1993 said:


> Malenko's good at the shorties, yeah. Really like his matches with Smiley, Parka (which I'll watch again), Ohtani, Liger, and Disco Inferno at BATB96. That match rules, actually. I'm going to watch Malenko v. Mike Enos whenever I watch more Mike Enos matches sometime, too. I reckon at this point I consider Enos a legitimately better worker than Malenko. E-NOSSSS. Malenko's longer matches can get stuffed. Well not all of them. Eddie's all-star performances managed to make some really good shit in 1997 (even if I thought Dean was practically worthless selling the after-effects), the Rey match from Germany is definitely Malenko's best OnTop job (which I agree with WOOLCOCK are usually not interesting). LOVED the Ultimo match at Starrcade, which surprised the hell out of me b/c I kind of find Ultimo ridiculously overrated at this point along with Malenko (have for a few years, really). So yeah, Dean's got more goodies that I thought he might, but his worst is eye-stabbingly bad. Match with Benoit at Hog Wild 96 is one I will probably never, ever watch again. Just wouldn't fucking end.
> 
> Oh fuck, worst thing Malenko does is the 'pull head up after pin' spot. That literally ruined the otherwise fun as ASS 8/7/96 match with Rey for me. OK, use it to show off your MIGHTINESS and the fact you're dominating the match to the point where you can afford anything, but don't fucking use it in the real heat of the battle. HateHateHate that spot.


I don't recall Malenko/Parka or Malenko/Disco Inferno. Might have a mooch around and track both down. With the best of the 00s project I've started to gain an inkling for watching sub ten minute matches in between the heavier stuff to just make it more manageable and fun.

Speaking of overlooked WCW matches, Regal/Pena 11/25/96 & Regal/Psicosis 12/16/96 are tremendous.

I too hate those 'break own count' spots. It takes true timing and execution to make it bearable but instances like that one & DK's in the Tiger Mask series just irk me to no end.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Malenko's good at the shorties, yeah. Really like his matches with Smiley, Parka (which I'll watch again), Ohtani, Liger, and Disco Inferno at BATB96. That match rules, actually. I'm going to watch Malenko v. Mike Enos whenever I watch more Mike Enos matches sometime, too. I reckon at this point I consider Enos a legitimately better worker than Malenko. E-NOSSSS. Malenko's longer matches can get stuffed. Well not all of them. Eddie's all-star performances managed to make some really good shit in 1997 (even if I thought Dean was practically worthless selling the after-effects), the Rey match from Germany is definitely Malenko's best OnTop job (which I agree with WOOLCOCK are usually not interesting). LOVED the Ultimo match at Starrcade, which surprised the hell out of me b/c I kind of find Ultimo ridiculously overrated at this point along with Malenko (have for a few years, really). So yeah, Dean's got more goodies that I thought he might, but his worst is eye-stabbingly bad. Match with Benoit at Hog Wild 96 is one I will probably never, ever watch again. Just wouldn't fucking end.
> 
> Oh fuck, worst thing Malenko does is the 'pull head up after pin' spot. That literally ruined the otherwise fun as ASS 8/7/96 match with Rey for me. OK, use it to show off your MIGHTINESS and the fact you're dominating the match to the point where you can afford anything, but don't fucking use it in the real heat of the battle. HateHateHate that spot.


Yay @ plugging the Disco Inferno match. The Starrcade match vs Ultimo is probably my favorite Malenko match ever, so I'm there with ya. Still want to stranger the fans or whomever made the listing for the Starrcade DVD set. HOW IN THE HELL DID THAT MATCH NOT MAKE IT? Yeah, I worship Liger. The match vs Mysterio is an unappreciated gem, but c'mon now. Ultimo vs Malenko getting snubbed was tripe. We have that crummy Rhodes vs Austin match make it all b/c of their names. Seriously, why did that match kind of suck? Off on a new tangent, but dammit all.

Only can remember Dean doing that spot in the Uncensored match vs Eddie. He hit the frog splash and decided to pull him up instead of getting the win. Can't really see it as a bad portion since the match wasn't too close of ending. I think. Dean was pissed going in so off the top of my head it was fine. I've seen it a ton yet having a hard time figuring out when it was done. Ah nuts.



WOOLCOCK said:


> I thought it was excellent personally. Smiley's technique resembled a classic WOS/European chain wrestling and it meshed well with Malenko's more traditional technical reversals. They built a nice pace and the exchanges balanced being intricate and eye catching yet fought for and uncooperative really well.
> 
> I remember loving the beginning and climax of Malenko/Rey HH '96 but Malenkos' haphazard and unfocused control segment did take me out of the match greatly. With a more polished middle I'd probably consider it their best match and a true gem (might still actually be their best match for me because I don't remember liking any THAT much) since Mysterio is tremendous and the opening saw a more vicious and emotive Malenko rather than the soulless technician.
> 
> ...


The European influence is basically the portion of the match which drives home the aspect that is wasn't a typical style of match seen on WCW TV. Which also explains the (seemingly) haphazard holds going from one to another actually feel fluid and fine for the type of match worked. Seen that done on the indies quite a bit and boy does it look terrible when the match isn't even worked under the same style.

I watched it not that long ago, but I was fairly drunk during. So yeah. The rewatch is a given. If not right now, tomorrow. Idk. The only problem I'm ever forced with in my life is: what wrestling do I want to watch? If I pop in Mysterio's Biggest Little Man set, I know myself. I'll watch the entire thing. Or AT LEAST the glorious Super Calo match from Fall Brawl '96. Can't get enough of it. In addition to taking to heart your points on the Havoc match of course. 

Regal vs Psychosis went a really long time, right? I know I'll always remember Regal's word - that I read - about how that is one of his favorites and loved how he got time to actually work vs Psychosis on TV. Can't say I've seen the match any time soon. Which pains me. Do believe I couldn't find it the last time I looked.

On the subject of the "lifting up the head before the three count" spot. I watched a match yesterday where that spot was used well. Undertaker vs Cena from Vengeance 2003. Undertaker schooled the hell out of the young pup and when he did it, it was timed at the right spot within the story. Wanted to give him just that much more punishment before he won. See, Undertaker can do it right.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Regal vs Psychosis went a really long time, right? I know I'll always remember Regal's word - that I read - about how that is one of his favorites and loved how he got time to actually work vs Psychosis on TV. Can't say I've seen the match any time soon. Which pains me. Do believe I couldn't find it the last time I looked.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, Regal/Psicosis is a match I've been batting for since 2009. I think it's my #2 Nitro match (AWFUCK, after WWE 2010 I'm doing top Nitro matches) behind Sting/DDP. I'm always shocked as hell how hot the crowd is for the match, too.


EDIT - I fucking hate Austin/Dustin at Starrcade. Putrid garbage.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> First I've heard of that. No bother either considering it's already downloaded for me. Watching it first thing tomorrow.


Yeah, you don't have to login to watch NXT on Hulu.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah Cody the Regal/Psicosis match is about 12 minutes or so. You get a great dynamic between Regal's technical acumen proving too much for Psicosis which transitions into his explosive offence to counter Regal's advantage in the mat and striking department. One of both men's most overlooked matches given the period it comes from and being a TV match, but it's tremendous and one of the better matches of '96.

While I'm talking about overlooked '96 Regal matches, vs Sting @ GAB motherfuckaaa. Tremendous Regal showcase and Sting deserves credit too for the way he worked the match and put over Regal as this unstoppable phenom.


Yeah someone like Taker against a smaller guy feels like a good way to utilise that spot Cody. It generally works better for me when the opponent is a weasly heel who the crowd are begging to see pulverised, which is why it feels so out of place in Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask. Taker mercilessly beating up Cena and then announcing it's only just beginning is about the best way possible to make the spot work and not feel totally useless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


>


oh mah goodness.



Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, Regal/Psicosis is a match I've been batting for since 2009. I think it's my #2 Nitro match (AWFUCK, after WWE 2010 I'm doing top Nitro matches) behind Sting/DDP. I'm always shocked as hell how hot the crowd is for the match, too.
> 
> 
> EDIT - I fucking hate Austin/Dustin at Starrcade. Putrid garbage.


Top Nitro match is much too tempting. I would seriously remove all aspects of my life to watch every Nitro and pick my favorites. I mean it. Nothing sounds like a greater delight. Nothing in the realms of possibility. I can imagine many things that would be as good, but lets be real now.

Knew it couldn't just be me.



SonoShion said:


> Yeah, you don't have to login to watch NXT on Hulu.


Interesting. Pretty legit too.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Everybody needs to watch Zayn/Cesaro, like, RIGHT NOW.



HayleySabin said:


> First I've heard of that. No bother either considering it's already downloaded for me. *Watching it first thing tomorrow.*


:connery


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rey Mysterio;

Best Year Ever?

Thought he was WWE WOTY in 2006, 2009, & maybe 2010. Then you look at things like his 1996 and you're just all like FUCK. I'm goin to go with 2006 though, those Henry, Orton, JBL, and even Chavo matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro, NXT (6/12/13)*

Strong match here which built off of their first match in impressive fashion. Cesaro pretty much controls the majority of the match from the offy with Zayn trying repeatedly to create openings in which to capitalise and evade Cesaro's clutches once again. Everything Cesaro did here looked tremendous from his opening onslaught on the floor, to his body punches and strikes, the brilliant instinctive double stomp to a prone Zayn on the mat, the uppercuts used to neutralise Zayn at every opportunity but more specifically his immense ability to make a chinlock the magnus opus of the match and build heat into what in poorer hands would have been a mere resthold. Zayn's bumping and general sympathetic charisma came through in every spurt of offence he had and they built a nice structure out of Cesaro dominating but always looking susceptible to Zayne's positioning and tenacity. Finish looked frightening for a second when Zayn appeared to struggle to maintain position but credit to Cesaro for reacting superbly and avoiding potential disaster. Loved his immediate dismissve and petulant slap at a motionless Zayn to add insult to injury.


*Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro, 2/3 Falls, NXT (8/21/13)*



Spoiler: thoughts



Very smartly wrestled encounter here with a series of subtle yet appreciated callback spots to their prior two encounters alongside the frantic and fluid sequences which have forever been associated with their chemistry. The match is a total farcry from Bryan/Sheamus in terms of layout but I appreciated their desire to do away with convention and produce their own version. Opening fall lasts a matter of seconds after Zayn dives to the floor and immediately hits a corner Yazakuza kick and immediate rollup before Cesaro can even register what has happened. Typically the second fall is often the shortest in matches of this ilk so it was certainly a departure from protocol but emphasised the urgency of Zayn's plight as well as reinforcing how his speed was an equal counterpart to Cesaro's power and precise technique. The second fall becomes more equal and sees Cesaro gradually try to reinforce his dominance whilst being wary of his predicament & it's here where a number of small little callbacks are evident. Zayn finally countering the tilt-a-whirl backbreaker Cesaro had succeeded with in their first two matches, the gut-wrench suplex which has been a staple Cesaro spot since his emergence on TV was finally countered and most importantly Zayn was wary of the chinlock and spent the brunt of the second fall frantically trying to block Cesaro's repeated attempts at replicating his success with the same manoeuvre which proved decisive in their second match. The fact Cesaro ultimately was able to overcome Zayn's defences and score the submission with the chinlock was a nice payoff to that developing theme. Cesaro's power and technique were also similarly on show in this fall much like Zayn's speed was in the first with the powerbomb and bridging fallaway slam standing out. 

The final fall however really built on the opening two falls and felt like two gifted athletes pulling out everything to win. Cesaro once again countering Zayn's counter out of the suplex which won him the first match with the chinlock counter that won him the rematch, only for Zayn to then counter that was an inspired callback and the featured spots (apron to ring superplex, Zayn hitting the DDT through the ropes on the floor, the powerbomb/sunset flip counter) in amongst the supreme selling of exhaustion by both men were excellent. The finish itself was incredible and they did amazingly well to recover what nearly proved a blown transition and the execution itself was mind-boggling.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> oh mah goodness.
> 
> 
> 
> Top Nitro match is much too tempting. I would seriously remove all aspects of my life to watch every Nitro and pick my favorites. I mean it. Nothing sounds like a greater delight. Nothing in the realms of possibility. I can imagine many things that would be as good, but lets be real now.


Started up on that myself last night. Well, not the top Nitro match, but Nitro itself. I'll probably peddle on until mid '97 then jump into '91/'92. But there is that one warning. The first couple of months of Nitro, oh God, worrying how I am going to get through this.

Bluebloods match on week 3 should make up for any Hogan & palz/Dungeon of Doom rivalry that'll frustrate my mind. But the big worry is Mongo on commentary, show built around the main event quadruple of Savage/Sting/Hogan/Luger with the 5-10 minute segment in the middle dedicated to a mid 90s Flair. May the Lord preserve my patience.

Fuck it, shall throw up a quickie review of Fall Brawl '95 later on. Can't remember if this is the greatness Arn/Ric match, but I'll fucking settle.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

NXT will air around midnight tonight for me on TV so I'll make sure to catch it in the morning. Looking forward to the match. Zayn is one of the most likeable wrestlers in years imo. I don't follow the indies so I know fuck all about him. What I've seen so far has been wonderful though. I instantly became a fan. I'm expecting a cracker from these two.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

He's pretty much kept the Generico mannerisms from what I can tell in terms of offence, bumping and endearing himself continually to a crowd, only in losing the mask he's gained the crucial ability to emote and connect through his facial expressions which given how over he became when confined to a mask and having to bump to garner sympathy should not prove a challenge in the slightest. I did think at times he was prone to falling into the indy mentality of doing a little too much and having some very choreographed sequences, but he always grasped the fundamentals and I never doubted he'd take to the constraints of the WWE style with aplomb and just accentuate his strengths to compensate for losing some of his more expansive offence manouevres.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Rey Mysterio;
> 
> Best Year Ever?
> 
> Thought he was WWE WOTY in 2006, 2009, & maybe 2010. Then you look at things like his 1996 and you're just all like FUCK. I'm goin to go with 2006 though, those Henry, Orton, JBL, and even Chavo matches.


It's a toss up between 1997 and 2005 for me. 2006 was excellent as well. I'm just such a mega fan of his programs with Eddie Guerrero, those two were pure magic in the ring together and I would rate them behind only HBK/Taker as far as best in ring chemistry. The Smackdown match from June 2005 is a full 5 star affair in my book, it's one of the most flawlessly executed matches I've ever seen. The character work is AMAZING, god Eddie was the greatest heel back then, and it's really, REALLY hard to match Rey's baby face performance (Rey and Steamboat are the 2 greatest baby face only performers of all time imo). Can you believe some idiot just posted a thread in the General Talk section saying Eddie was an overrated mid carder who couldn't work and couldn't talk and his legacy is massively inflated by his death? I'm being serious when I say, from 2004-2005, Eddie Guerrero as a wrestler, as a character, as a performer, was on a plane that very few in the history of this business have achieved. 

Okay I'll stop ranting about Guerrero, I'm sure everyone is sick of it.

I think Dean Malenko suffered from never letting his personality out. I've read in both Eddie and Jericho's books that he was a tremendously funny guy, it just never showed on camera. I think we as fans when we are watching a match, want to get a sense that the wrestlers are enjoying themselves, even if that's only shown in small flashes. Just watch Brock Lesnar, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Eddie, HBK, Taker, really any great performer during their control segments. They look like they are having FUN while kicking some ass, and that transfers over to you the viewer and you end up enjoying it as well. It's a shared experience. Malenko never gave off the impression that he was enjoying himself, ever. He always had the icy demeanor, and his moves appeared at times to be so technically proficient as to be almost choreographed. That's not to say he wasn't a great worker, because undoubtedly he was. I just think a lot of times his work was not believable like his best friends Benoit and Eddies was. I think he just stuck with the Japanese technical style and never fully adapted to the American style, it's why he's best in smaller doses I.e. matches less than 12-13 minutes long. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever truly loved a 20+ minute match of his, other than the 2/3 falls match he had with Eddie for his last match at ECW.

I do like a lot of the stuff he did with Jericho back in WCW, and he had some fantastic performances for New Japan and in the Super J cup.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey's best year? 2006. He was the "mainstream" Bryan Danielson, having good/great matches with just about everyone.

Speaking of year, my ranking of WWE's past decade years:

2005 > 2006 > 2008 > 2013 so far > 2011 > 2003 > 2010 > 2004 > 2009 > 2007.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

ATF said:


> Rey's best year? 2006. He was the "mainstream" Bryan Danielson, having good/great matches with just about everyone.
> 
> Speaking of year, my ranking of WWE's past decade years:
> 
> 2005 > 2006 > 2008 > 2013 so far > 2011 > 2003 > 2010 > *2004 > 2009 > 2007*.


Man, the Orton years always suck. Doesn't bode well for the rest of 13. rton2 

Generally agree with the rankings (especially 05 <3). Where would you put 2012? That's a tough one for me. Some great (Punk & Sheamus), a lot of bad (almost everything else).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Cleavage again."


I don't know about any other dudes but I love to give it to cleavage. Am I right or am I right?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Rey's best year? 2006. He was the "mainstream" Bryan Danielson, having good/great matches with just about everyone.
> 
> Speaking of year, my ranking of WWE's past decade years:
> 
> 2005 > 2006 > 2008 > 2013 so far > 2011 > 2003 > 2010 > 2004 > 2009 > 2007.



I cant believe you have 03' so low.....Lesnar, Angle, Eddie, Benoit, Edge, Rey etc on Smackdown tearing it up every night, Jericho, HBK, Trips, Booker, RVD, etc tearing it up on Raw, the last year of Rock vs Austin, plus the second greatest(possibly 1st) Mania of all time with Wrestlemania 19? What's not to love about that? The WWE was never more loaded than it was in 2003, that's my pick behind only 2005 MAYBE for greatest year of the past decade.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit I forgot about 2012 fpalm

2005 > 2006 > 2008 > 2013 so far > 2011 > 2003 > 2010 > 2004 > *2012* > 2009 > 2007.

Match quality overall was _insane_, especially for PPV's whose m.q. was miles above many others of these years, but everything else ranged from boring to sucky imo.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Raw 2003 was brought down a lot by Triple H phoning it in all year. SD 2003 was great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I cant believe you have 03' so low.....Lesnar, Angle, Eddie, Benoit, Edge, etc on Smackdown tearing it up every night, Jericho, HBK, Trips, Booker, RVD, etc tearing it up on Raw, the last year of Rock vs Austin, plus the second greatest(possibly 1st) Mania of all time with Wrestlemania 19? What's not to love about that? The WWE was never more loaded than it was in 2003, that's my pick behind only 2005 MAYBE for greatest year of the past decade.


Raw was GARBAGE. Pure garbage. Pre-WM was bad enough (save for Rock and Austin), post-WM was Godawful. Smackdown and WM 19 saved 03 imo.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'll always have a soft spot for Sumner of raw 03...... Kanes post unmasking heel work :mark


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Wasn't RAW 2003 also the start of Evolution?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

*Evan Bourne vs William Regal, Superstars (3/4/10)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIr-IhFUbw0

Excellent 6 minute encounter here with a tremendous Regal performance which emphasises just how great he continues to be even in his current limited role. Adored their recreation of a staple WOS spot in the early chain wrestling with Bourne trying multiple ways to escape a keylock which Regal finds continuous ways to keep applied (best had to be Bourne climbing onto Regal and transitioning into a floatover with Regal still keeping the hold on the entire time). Eventually Bourne manages to find an escape route and immediately strings together a sequence of rabid offence that Regal can do nothing to stop and I'll forever love Regal's determination to incorporate little touches like feeling his jaw after a Bourne kick to put over the strike. Best example of that here had to be Bourne countering into an arm wringer which Regal immediately dismisses with a forearm only to twinge his muscle and shake it loose immediately on impact. Regal applies a couple of creative but suitably brutal holds to keep Bourne grounded and it builds to a nice crescendo which is only marred by Bourne having a one-two comeback before the finish. A couple of more minutes and a lengthened Bourne comeback and this would have been even better.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rey 2010 may be the best in-ring year for a wrestler of the last decade


tbh(hayley :lol) I'm a huge hbk mark but, I think outside of 93 maybe, 2003 was his worst in-ring. Ive watched some of his matches from that year lately and just dont like how he worked. I believe he had the mentality that " Oh I'm HBK, the showstopper, I'm going to show I still steal the show and my back is 100% fine and Im still the best". I think he preoccupied himself on workrate instead of the other things. Luckily he got back on track from next year till he retired


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

No work today so watching the In Your House blu ray for what feels like the 57th time. I can't say enough good things about HBK/Foley Mind Games, the Final Four and the ten man tag at Canadian Stampede. I will go the full :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer on those three matches. Love all 3 of them. WWE from KotR 96- Dec 97 was just money.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What about a Top 10 PPV's of the PG Era?

To me:

Extreme Rules 2012 > Money In The Bank 2011 > SummerSlam 2011 > WrestleMania 28 > No Mercy 2008 > SummerSlam 2013 > Money In The Bank 2013 > TLC 2012 > WrestleMania 26 > Extreme Rules 2011.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Help me out (I'm old) when did the PG era start? Was it 09?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Help me out (I'm old) when did the PG era start? Was it 09?


 Summer of 2008 I think.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Great American Bash '08 was the start.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> No work today so watching the In Your House blu ray for what feels like the 57th time. I can't say enough good thing about HBK/Foley Mind Games and the Final Four. I will go the full :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer on those two matches. Love them both.


My favorite matches in WWE history

1. Stone Cold vs Bret Hart Mania 13
2. HBK vs Taker HiaC
3. hBK vs Taker Mania 25
4. Mankind vs HBK at Mindgames

It's just that good, I will never ever get sick of that match. It's so creative, HbK actually comes over like a badass instead of a wimp, and Foleys character work was amazing. Love it love it love it. Can't say enough good things about it.

I love that whole IYH set, it has so many matches I'd rate between 4-5 star

1. Foley vs HBK at Mindgames *****
2. Canadian Stampede 10 man tag *****
3. Bret Hart vs Bulldog ****3/4
4. Final Four ****1/2
5. HBK vs Double J ****1/2
6. Bret Hart vs Hakushi ****1/2
7. Mankind vs Undertaker Revenge of the Taker ****1/2
8. HBK vs Diesel ****1/4

I mean it's just loaded with gems

Speaking of gems, I think I have changed my mind about CM Punk vs DBry OTL 2012 being the best PPV match of 2012. It's now #2 behind the Shield vs Hell No/Ryback from TLC. Holy fuck, am I pissed for choosing that night to get drunk for the first time in like 3 years, the brilliance of this match was completely lost on me at the time, but I rewatched it yesterday and feel it completely deserves the full 5. My god, it really doesn't get much better than this, the only way I can see the slightest way to improve it is for it to have been an actual ladder match for something instead of ladders just being weapons. But picking nits with this match almost appears to be blasphemous, it just that good IMO. I love the shields work here, and DBry was on fire as usual (that suicide dive onto the shield after the power bombed Ryback through the table :mark: !)

Anyways, here is how I break down 2012, I feel like such an idiot for not rewatching that match earlier....

1. The Shield vs Hell No + Ryback at TLC *****
2. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan at OTL ****1/2
3. CM Punk vs Chris Jericho at Wrestlemania 28 ****1/2
4. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus at ER ****1/2
5. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan MitB 2012 ****1/4
6. Triple H vs Undertaker at Wrestlemania 28 ****1/4
7. John Cema vs Brock Lesnar at ER ****1/4

Edit- I remember Sheamus and Big Show having an AWESOME match that I would rank above the HHH and Cena matches, but I can't remember which PPV it was on and I need to rewatch it to give it a proper rating.

Sick year for PPV matches, but man did TV SUCK that year. Ugh


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I got incredibly high and drunk the night of Elimination Chamber and didn't remember shit from it except Swagger winning the chamber (HAHAHAHA) so I bought it the other day at the used store here for $7. Not a bad ppv at all but I really enjoy the EC concept. An EC in 2014 of Cena, Brock, HHH, Punk, Bryan and Orton would be ok.

I try all the time to make lists of fave matches but it changes constantly. Not sure anything will ever approach Savage/Steamboat WM 3 for me though. Bret/Austin WM 13, main events of Survivor Series 2001 and WM 20 are up there too. Of course the Taker/HBK matches at WM25 and 26 and of course Hell in a Cell. The Flair/Steamboat matches in 1989 are close as is Flair/Sting at the first CotC. I would have loved for 1988-1990 Flair to get his hands on Hogan. Would have been epic. One day I will get bored and attempt a list. 

All of that being said I loooooved Punk/Bryan OTL and MitB both. The MitB match gets a half a star just because of AJ's outfit. Love that finish too.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

JY57 said:


> guess I have to check Cesaro/Zayn to see the fuss about it


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Havent really been on the last couple days and havent watched any wrestling since monday, anyways

TLC 6 man really isnt a gem, I think everyone Loves it, I got it at ****1/2, great match. Is cesro/zayn III up ?


*Attention * big daves STARRZ

Dave Meltzer SummerSlam Ratings 

Ambrose vs RVD - **
Wyatt vs Kane - DUD
Rhodes vs Sandow - **
Christian vs ADR - ***1/2
Natalya vs Brie - *1/4
Brock vs Punk - ****1/2
Dolph/Kaitlyn vs AJ Lee/Langston - **
Cena vs Bryan - ****1/2
__________________


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Havent really been on the last couple days and havent watched any wrestling since monday, anyways
> 
> TLC 6 man really isnt a gem, I think everyone Loves it, I got it at ****1/2, great match. Is cesro/zayn III up ?


Lol I use the word gem to describe anything that's valuable, if not many people know about I then it's a hidden gem, just IMO.

If you're a macho mark MachoMadness1988, it doesn't get any better than macho vs warrior at mania, even his match with steamer can't touch it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Punk - ****1/2

Fucking great match, both guys' work was spot on, Brock busted out all the big guns, those chair shots, fantasic sequences throughput, that F5/DDT reversal, just a very special match. Thankyou Brock and Punk, that was the Lesnar i love, and Heyman's involvment didn't bother me one bit, think some people have been overplaying that aspect, it was perfectly fine IMO.

Cena/Bryan - ****1/2

You know what, i enjoyed this just as much, once again it was so enjoyable, just great work from BOTH guys, i even forgot Trips was the bloody referee lol, can't believe im saying this, but i enjoyed Cena's work just as much as Bryan's.

Amazing double main event.  Please hurry back Brock.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

talk about the Ultimate Spoiler DVD Cover. Might be the worst Spoiler Cover there is (last one I remember was The Rock with McMahons one)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

All the Malenko talk has got me interested again. Found the Germany house show match with Rey, think I'll go ahead and watch it.



ATF said:


> Speaking of year, my ranking of WWE's past decade years:
> 
> 2005 > 2006 > 2008 > 2013 so far > 2011 > 2003 > 2010 > 2004 > 2009 > 2007.


For me:

2004 > 2005 > 2003 > 2006 > 2008 > 2013 > 2007 > 2011 > 2009 > 2010 > a pile of shit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey guys I'm a huge sports nut, so I read the site Grantland.com all the time, and The Masked Man writes WWE articles for them. He did an interview with Triple H over the Summer Slam weekend, and it just got posted today. Here is the link if you are interested:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9588366/an-interview-wwe-superstar-corporate-officer-triple-h

Pretty cool stuff, I'm not an all out Haitch hater, because I do enjoy his matches (mostly when he was a heel, can't think of a baby face Haitch match I've liked...). But him trying to deny he's ever "buried" anyone, especially when footage of the build and match at WrestleMania 19 exists, is preposterous. I, however, am not one of those people who thinks he "buries" everyone, only what he did to Booker T really stands out as heinous to me.

And C2D, I pretty much agree with you, but you DO have to admit 2012 had some fantastic PPV matches, it's just Raw and Smackdown that sucked so bad. I just listed about 10 matches from 2012 PPV's that I'd rank **** or higher, so that can't be worse than a pile of shit, right?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

haribo said:


>


Oh dear lord sweet Jesus mother Mary and Joseph. That was such a great match, that sequence right there sent me to my feet in my den and made my dog leap up and start barking at me to figure out what all the commotion was about.

I honestly would have to rate it ****1/2. It was just THAT good, and it's just that simple. That power bomb counter Zayn busted out was one of the coolest things I've ever seen, it was so clean and perfect, it looked like something Eddie and Rey would have done back in WCW. Those two just put on one hell of a match, it's probably in my top 5 for this year, right up there with Punk vs Lesnar, Punk vs Taker, and Bryan vs Cena. If Punk and Daniel Bryan had that match at a PPV, people would be screaming about it being a 5 star classic. So, so good.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

JY57 said:


> talk about the Ultimate Spoiler DVD Cover. Might be the worst Spoiler Cover there is (last one I remember was The Rock with McMahons one)


By the time the DVD comes out, the majority of fans will know what happened. IMO, it was a good decision to use that image for the cover because it was the most shocking moment on the show and it is the catalyst for WWE's big angle for the year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> And C2D, I pretty much agree with you, but you DO have to admit 2012 had some fantastic PPV matches, it's just Raw and Smackdown that sucked so bad. I just listed about 10 matches from 2012 PPV's that I'd rank **** or higher, so that can't be worse than a pile of shit, right?


For sure. I'm not denying that there were some quality matches here and there but the TV stuff was SO BAD, I would have no longer been a wrestling fan by now had it not been for my discovery of old episodes being available on youtube. The pile of shit comment was just there to emphasize how bad I think it is and the amount of space between it and whatever year is second least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Top Ten PG PPVs:

MITB 2011 > ER 2012 > NM 2008 > SS 13 > SS 11 > WM 28 > SvS 2011 > TLC 2011 > WM 26 > Payback

Last ten years ranking:

2004 > 2013 (so far) > 2011 > 2008 > 2012 > 2005 > 2009 > 2006 > 2007 > 2010

Sorry ATF (I love you :hbk), but I just can't appreciate 2005 like everyone else. Some great PPV matches and good feuds, but both RAW and Smackdown were unbearable and Cena and Batista both had two of the worst extended title reigns ever. We also saw Christian and Muhammad Hassan get beyond buried.

Regal/Bourne is "pathetic" :woolcock


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I think 2013 if done right could end up being one of the best years WWE has had in a long time. It's been really entertaining. I don't know about ranking them but 2011 was the year the brought me back in as a die hard fan. I thought it was great. I was a pretty casual fan from 2007-2011. Some good stuff in those years but I watched very little. I blame the ex wife. I digress.....



cjack828 said:


> If you're a macho mark MachoMadness1988, it doesn't get any better than macho vs warrior at mania, even his match with steamer can't touch it.


I love Savage/Warrior at WM7. I said a few weeks ago I don't know if I've seen a better example of storytelling than that match. I don't know if I ever marked out harder than when Savage kicked out of the gorilla press thingy that Warrior did. I put Savage/Steamboat ahead of it but I think have a soft spot for Savage/Warrior. The day before Mania this year I watched all the Savage Mania matches with a friend and he had not seen the match with Warrior and he loved it. The Savage/Warrior match at Summerslam 92 was underrated too. Overshadowed by Bret/Davey. Ugh....talking about all 4 of those guys I miss when the IC title meant something. I'm all for an IC/US title unification. Without a brand split there is way too many titles.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is the entire Cesaro/Zayn match posted anywhere? Can't really d/l it at work. (N)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I think 2013 if done right could end up being one of the best years WWE has had in a long time. It's been really entertaining. I don't know about ranking them but 2011 was the year the brought me back in as a die hard fan. I thought it was great. I was a pretty casual fan from 2007-2011. Some good stuff in those years but I watched very little. I blame the ex wife. I digress.....
> 
> 
> 
> I love Savage/Warrior at WM7. I said a few weeks ago I don't know if I've seen a better example of storytelling than that match. I don't know if I ever marked out harder than when Savage kicked out of the gorilla press thingy that Warrior did. I put Savage/Steamboat ahead of it but I think have a soft spot for Savage/Warrior. The day before Mania this year I watched all the Savage Mania matches with a friend and he had not seen the match with Warrior and he loved it. The Savage/Warrior match at Summerslam 92 was underrated too. Overshadowed by Bret/Davey. Ugh....talking about all 4 of those guys I miss when the IC title meant something. I'm all for an IC/US title unification. Without a brand split there is way too many titles.



Man, nothing beats The Macho Man, I own the Macho Madness set along with the 1985-2006 Wrestlemania set, and there is never a time I dont just completely mark for savage, he was so far ahead of his time, and sits atop the wrestling Mount Rushmore for me along with a Hogan, Flair, and Austin (sorry Rocky, no room for you). As a kid I loved Randy so much that I actually tried to make my voice permanently sound like his by cutting macho man promos as my way of having a conversation with people "macho man randy savage says I'd like some more chicken mom, and ooooh yea is that some good chicken". My grandfathers nickname for me has always been "macho" because of how obsessed I was with him as a kid (only person I was more obsessed with was Michael Jordan). Probably the greatest total package in WWE history alongside Austin.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is the entire Cesaro/Zayn match posted anywhere? Can't really d/l it at work. (N)


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...-zayn-2-out-3-falls-match_sport?search_algo=2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ :hb

You're the man. Thanks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sorry ATF (I love you :hbk), but I just can't appreciate 2005 like everyone else. Some great PPV matches and good feuds, but both RAW and Smackdown were unbearable and Cena and Batista both had two of the worst extended title reigns ever. We also saw Christian and Muhammad Hassan get beyond buried.


I don't know what you were watching but 2005 was awesome, both TV and PPVs. Raw was awesome up until SummerSlam and the quality went down slightly after that but there were still some great stuff like the SD vs Raw feud heading into Survivor Series.

Smackdown was okay in the first half but really went up after the draft. Great matches almost weekly and the Taker/Orton feud rules. There was plenty of unforgivable bookings like Shelton and Christian getting buried or Hassan being turned into a generic terrorist even though that's what he _hated_ being called.

Cena's reign was pretty good I thought. Good PPV matches and he stopped being an overly pandering cunt after he moved to Raw. SuperCena booking was bad but his promos in the Jericho feud were good too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> ^ :hb
> 
> You're the man. Thanks.


Every NXT episode is for free on Hulu.com, you don't have to sign up or join its just on there.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Oh, awesome. Thanks for the head's up. (Y)


----------



## Palahniuk (Jun 18, 2013)

Feeling a bit of New Generation nostalgia this evening, any PPV recommendations? I've seen the Wrestlemanias around that time obviously but are there any Summerslam/Survivor Series/early IYH worth watching? Hoping there's something decent in amongst that era's shite.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love you zeb

I'll eat dinner first than watch, anybody here seen it ? how good


Edit: ^^^ best of iyh dvd is your best bet


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I love you zeb
> 
> I'll eat dinner first than watch, anybody here seen it ? how good
> 
> ...


If you're talking about zayn vs Cesaro 2/3 falls, yes I've seen and yes it's as good as any match I've seen this year, ****1/2 from me, it was damn near flawless, there wasn't anything I didn't like about it. The counters were gorgeous, and the finish kicked so much ass. Highly recommend anyone who hasn't seen it pop over to Hulu.com and check it out


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Palahniuk said:


> Feeling a bit of New Generation nostalgia this evening, any PPV recommendations? I've seen the Wrestlemanias around that time obviously but are there any Summerslam/Survivor Series/early IYH worth watching? Hoping there's something decent in amongst that era's shite.


New Generation was 1993 'till WM 13 (14 was only its glorification  ), so I'd say IYH Mind Games, Royal Rumble 1995, Survivor Series 1995 and 1996 are all worth it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Palahniuk said:


> Feeling a bit of New Generation nostalgia this evening, any PPV recommendations? I've seen the Wrestlemanias around that time obviously but are there any Summerslam/Survivor Series/early IYH worth watching? Hoping there's something decent in amongst that era's shite.


S. Series 96 if only for Austin/Hart, Sid/HBK and the MSG crowd.

Just watched Zayn/Cesaro. First two falls set up the RIDICULOUS third fall really well. Third fall is just stupid good. Finish is bewildering.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Since I'm on a ranking spree:

January PPV's:

Royal Rumble 2000 > RR 2001 > RR 2002 > RR 2007 > RR 2005 > RR 1995 > RR 1993 > RR 1990 > RR 1992 > RR 1991 > RR 1994 > New Year's Revolution 2006 > RR 1998 > NYR 2007 > NYR 2005 > RR 2004 > RR 1989 > RR 2003 > RR 1999 > RR 2006.


February PPV's:

No Way Out 2001 > NWO 2006 > Elimination Chamber 2011 > NWO 2000 > NWO 2009 > NWO 2008 > St. Valentine's Day Massacre > EC 2010 > Final Four > NWO 2003 > EC 2013 > NWO 1998 > NWO 2004 > NWO 2007 > EC 2012 > NWO 2002.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The finish was the best part to Cesaro vs Zayn. Still, didn't think it touched their second match.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

2005 was awesome.

Some of the reasons why I enjoyed that year so much:

- Captain Charisma Christian
- the rise of Edge, and the great Edge/Hardy feud
- Evolution break up that lead to the great Batista/HHH feud.
- Legend Killer Orton and the great Taker/Orton feud. 
- Muhammad Hassan

The burying of guys like Christian and demise of characters like Muhammad Hassan were bad points, but that didn't stop me from enjoying the hell out of their characters. Cena and Batista's title reigns went on a bit too long yes, but at the time they were fresh stars and WWE wanted to establish them as the new guys to carry the company. It was annoying to see the inexperienced Cena of 2005 go over clearly superior talents like Christian and Jericho though. 

I'd rather watch a RAW episode from 2005 over 2013 any day. Because at least back in 2005, RAW wasn't 3 hours long, the titles actually meant something back in 2005, there was proper midcard feuds, there was proper character development, there wasn't so much pointless filler like there is today and matches had more meaning to them because the product was overall booked better. Also Smackdown in 2005 was actually relevant and worth watching, unlike Smackdown in 2013.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Since I'm on a ranking spree:
> 
> January PPV's:
> 
> ...


Cactus Jack vs Triple H at Royal Rumble 2000 or Mankind vs HBk at Mindgames, which is better?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Sami Zayn Vs Antonio Cesaro (21/08/2013 WWE)*
_The issue with 2/3 falls matches is that they need to build themselves correctly or they feel forced. Thankfully, though, we had the perfect iteration with "callbacks" to their previous encounters playing out as each section. Despite Cesaro's insults leveled towards Zayn on his cheap first win, the little Canadian knew it would be his best shot at this. There's no way he'd outwrestle Cesaro so a mat-wrestling start is out the question, and he most certainly isn't stronger so a tie up is out, too. What is he better at, then? Making his body go SPLAT~! onto your head. The quick first fall transitioned well into allowing Zayn to maintain control over the bigger man in the second with slow ditches in swinging the momentum to tease the finish. It would mirror their second match, thus, in how Zayn out-paced Cesaro but the Swiss' brute force approach and wrestling ability would always see the better of his opponent. Who taps out to a sleeper? A man who wants to fight another day, that's who. Let's not forget the transition was basically a lariat into the oncoming Zayn that turned into a sleeper. The purpose of the sleeper is to wear down your opponent, and if there was another fall to go (as Cesaro most certainly had this) Sami would much rather do so as fresh as possible and not groggy and disoriented. No words can describe the third fall, however, as only watching it does it justice. It's everything Sami/Cesaro should be and more with the most holy shit finishing stretch this year. I thought Ricochet's Matrix-inspired finish in Dragon Gate was something, yet it pales in comparison to this._​


By the by, I hear Mascarita Dorada is debuting in WWE soon. This makes me so happy.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Man, nothing beats The Macho Man, I own the Macho Madness set along with the 1985-2006 Wrestlemania set, and there is never a time I dont just completely mark for savage, he was so far ahead of his time, and sits atop the wrestling Mount Rushmore for me along with a Hogan, Flair, and Austin (sorry Rocky, no room for you). As a kid I loved Randy so much that I actually tried to make my voice permanently sound like his by cutting macho man promos as my way of having a conversation with people "macho man randy savage says I'd like some more chicken mom, and ooooh yea is that some good chicken". My grandfathers nickname for me has always been "macho" because of how obsessed I was with him as a kid (only person I was more obsessed with was Michael Jordan). Probably the greatest total package in WWE history alongside Austin.


I love the Savage set. Maria is incredible to look at. Huge fan of her. Only omission is the Savage/DiBiase match from Wrestlefest 1988. I'd love to see a re-release on Blu Ray if (when) he goes in the HoF with the HoF ceremony and a few extra matches. If they can find a good quality version of his match with Bret in Japan in 94 that would be great, the Wrestlefest match with DiBiase, a WCW match or two, maybe a house show cage match with Warrior, etc. 

Savage was overshadowed by Hogan. As great as Savage was in the grand scheme of things he is underrated. He had it all. His promos were great, he had the cross over ability in pop culture, amazing in ring worker, great seller, incredible as a heel or face, etc. My 2nd grade school picture is me in my purple Macho Man shirt. I totally use to cut Savage promos in my mirror when nobody was looking haha. I think a lot of guys in my age bracket did so lol. 

Anyone every buy anything from Wrestletapes.com? The dude has an amazing collection of compilations. He has a Savage one that is like 30 discs that goes all the way back to the late 70s. I have not seen as much Savage stuff in Memphis with Lawler as I'd like.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Anyone every buy anything from Wrestletapes.com? The dude has an amazing collection of compilations. He has a Savage one that is like 30 discs that goes all the way back to the late 70s. I have not seen as much Savage stuff in Memphis with Lawler as I'd like.



It's wrestletapes.net and I'm interested in knowing this as well, he has a 30 disc Guerrero set and a Mitsuhara Misawa set I'd love to own but I don't know how reliable he is. Anyone ordered from him before?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> All the Malenko talk has got me interested again. Found the Germany house show match with Rey, think I'll go ahead and watch it.


Don't think it's really a house show match. It looks to be somewhat professionally taped (with the shittiest camera ever, tbf), and has German commentary over it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> It's wrestletapes.net and I'm interested in knowing this as well, he has a 30 disc Guerrero set and a Mitsuhara Misawa set I'd love to own but I don't know how reliable he is. Anyone ordered from him before?


Yes .net thats right. Yeah I could spend a ton of money on that site. I emailed him like a year ago and he seemed like a good dude but I'd love to hear from someone who has ordered from him before I buy. He has a lot of World Class stuff as well and as a big Von Erich mark I'd love to get some of that stuff too.

If anyone has ever wanted to order from highspots.com but is waiting for an opinion I have nothing but good things to say about their stuff. I have the best of Cactus Jack in Japan, best of Cactus in ECW, best of the hart family in japan and the best of Dynamite Kid in Japan and all are great. I really want the Sting in Japan set, the 8 disc Liger set, the NWA title in Japan set as well as the Terry Funk set. They also have a lot of Mid South stuff that looks sweet. 

cjack......Have you seen the match in Mid South with Punk and Eddie G? Good shit. There was a triple threat with someone else that is good but I forget who. Rey maybe?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Yeah Cody the Regal/Psicosis match is about 12 minutes or so. You get a great dynamic between Regal's technical acumen proving too much for Psicosis which transitions into his explosive offence to counter Regal's advantage in the mat and striking department. One of both men's most overlooked matches given the period it comes from and being a TV match, but it's tremendous and one of the better matches of '96.


Watched it last night after the link was posted. While the match was ridiculously stellar, my favorite part was how hot the crowd was each time Psychosis was on offense. It was amazing. Fans actually cared. Why couldn't Finlay vs Regal from Uncensored '96 happen in front of this audience?

Regal trapping Psychosis and giving him palm strikes in his face =


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cesaro/zayn ***3/4-4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When I first watched Regal/Psychosis about five years ago, I too was shocked by how lively the crowd was. As the match kept going on, I knew I was watching something special and I'm glad that others agree with how awesome it was. Like the Paramore fan said, imagine if Regal/Finlay from Uncensored was in front of that crowd. The crazy thing was that the crowd was lively for the Konnan/Eddie opener that night, but not the GOAT American brawl.

BLITZKRIEG!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Zayn on the main roster before or after Rumble?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> cjack......Have you seen the match in Mid South with Punk and Eddie G? Good shit. There was a triple threat with someone else that is good but I forget who. Rey maybe?


Yeah it's with Rey. I've been looking for the singles match with Eddie for years though. The triple threat is all over or at least used to be.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The single match with Punk/Eddie use to be on you tube like 2-3 years ago. I have not seen it for a long time. I love the quote from Punk's doc where he said something like (paraphrasing now) I thought I was good but I got in the ring with Eddie Guerrero and found out I was bad. God I miss Eddie. Such a natural.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Don't think it's really a house show match. It looks to be somewhat professionally taped (with the shittiest camera ever, tbf), and has German commentary over it.


Yeah, DSF. Think I still have that channel on satellite. It looks much darker than regular TV shows, though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> The single match with Punk/Eddie use to be on you tube like 2-3 years ago. I have not seen it for a long time. I love the quote from Punk's doc where he said something like (paraphrasing now) I thought I was good but I got in the ring with Eddie Guerrero and found out I was bad. God I miss Eddie. Such a natural.


The quote was "I thought I was good, I mean I REALLY thought I was good. And then I got in the ring with Eddie Guerrero and I was like "Holy crap am I bad" 

Lmao I loved the Punk doc, and being the huge Eddie guy that I am it was cool seeing him give props to Eddie. For what it's worth, Eddie really puts Punk over in his book, he even crashed at Punks apartment a few times while working the indies trying to prove himself to WWE again. It would be cooler than cool if they could have got into the ring around 2011 when Punk really came into his own as performer. Oh well.

Redskins, I'm surprised you aren't bigger on the Zayn/Cesaro match. Obviously ***3/4 is still a great rating, I dunno what it is, that 3rd fall turned me into a little kid again and I just completely marked out for it. I'd only seen a bit of Castagnolli before he joined WWE, but I've seen a ton of Generico and I knew they could put on a match like this. I wonder how long Zayn stays in developmental, I haven't really seen any promos by him, how is he on the mic? If they use him right I can definitely see him making a huge impact on the main roster. I'd love to see some stuff with him and Cody Rhodes.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Or heel Punk v Face Eddie in fall 2009? That would have been badass!

I could be wrong but I dont think Punk and HBK ever had a match against each other did they? If they did I dont believe it was a ppv. 

Yeah it does not get much better doc wise than the Punk doc. I have shown that doc to a few non wrestling fans and they love it. It is done really well. The Foley one was great too. I love how Punk respects the great workers and the history of the business.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/megaposts/594110-super-crazy-vs-yoshihiro-tajiri.html
> 
> They're predominantly matches where he's facing Tajiri in some capacity, but it's a good starting point and I'm sure Youtube/Dailymotion might be able to assist you in tracking down other matches. Seabs has an ECW set so maybe he can supply you of any matches of Crazy's to look out for that might have made the comp


Awesome!  I love Tajiri too so these will be awesome.



HayleySabin said:


> Downloading NXT as I type.
> 
> :mark: x100
> 
> ...


I hadn't yet so I'll certainly give that a look. (Y)

Thanks guys.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone tell me which NXT that tremendous Kassius Ohno vs Regal match is on? I've been trying to find it on Hulu for almost an hour hah


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Awesome!  I love Tajiri too so these will be awesome.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


(Y)

btw, did you see Cesaro vs Zayn? Just saw it for technically the third time. It's quite glorious.



cjack828 said:


> Can anyone tell me which NXT that tremendous Kassius Ohno vs Regal match is on? I've been trying to find it on Hulu for almost an hour hah


4/10.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> (Y)
> 
> btw, did you see Cesaro vs Zayn? Just saw it for technically the third time. It's quite glorious.
> 
> ...


Watched it today. Got a text from a friend urging me to watch it at like 9 in the morning. I marked hard for the dive between the ropes DDT. Awesome match!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Yeah it does not get much better doc wise than the Punk doc. I have shown that doc to a few non wrestling fans and they love it. It is done really well. The Foley one was great too. I love how Punk respects the great workers and the history of the business.


Foley Doc>Punk Doc >Stone Cold Doc>Bret Hart Doc>Chris Jericho Doc>The Rock Doc>Edge Doc>Hardy Boys Doc>Batista Doc>Orton Doc

I own all of those, and they are all fantastic I'd reccomend them to anyone. I don't even care for the Rocks work or Edge's all that much, I just bought them because WWE does such a phenomenal job on their documentaries. The Edge one really made me miss him. He's one of those guys you don't realize how much they added until they are gone, same with Batista (I know he gets a lot of hate, but come on, what would you rather have, Batista or Ryback? Batista and its not even close). Maybe if Edge had stuck around we wouldn't have been subjected to the astronomical push ADR got. Okay now I'm just ranting. I really hope they give Daniel Bryan the CM Pink documentary treatment. Wow would that rule


Edit- Thanks a ton Hayley, I'm gonna watch that now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Watched it today. Got a text from a friend urging me to watch it at like 9 in the morning. I marked hard for the dive between the ropes DDT. Awesome match!


Once he got the separation I knew he was going to bust it out. Glad he's already going to do it while in WWE. Smart move too. It'll easily give him something that separates him from the pack. Still have to get used to the knuckle lock run up the ropes DDTs being his finisher. No Brainbuster is the biggest adjustment. Already over the mask being gone since he made himself stand out & take notice right from the very first interview. He's gonna be huge. I have that good feeling. 

Cesaro's strength to hold Generico and STILL hit Swiss Death. Couldn't believe that. The man still amazes me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Redskins, I'm surprised you aren't bigger on the Zayn/Cesaro match. Obviously ***3/4 is still a great rating, I dunno what it is, that 3rd fall turned me into a little kid again and I just completely marked out for it. I'd only seen a bit of Castagnolli before he joined WWE, but I've seen a ton of Generico and I knew they could put on a match like this. I wonder how long Zayn stays in developmental, I haven't really seen any promos by him, how is he on the mic? If they use him right I can definitely see him making a huge impact on the main roster. I'd love to see some stuff with him and Cody Rhodes.


I'd have it more in the **** range, but yea its still a tremendous match, some parts on the 2nd fall although good were so-so the 3rd was very good wit ha :mark: finish


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I didn't mind Batista as a heel but as a face? Uuugh just awful. 

I hope WWE releases a Bryan compilation and doc in 2014. Oh oh good lets talk about it....what 12 (14 on blu ray) matches would be on it??? 

A Dolph one needs to happen as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

btw, Zayn is actually really good at promos. For years of not talking he's naturally gifted behind the stick. It comes easy for him.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm salivating thinking of how great the best of Raw and Smackdown 2013 is going to be. So many great Shield, Bryan, Dolph, Cesaro matches as well as Punk/Cena and Hell No & Taker v Shield. Yay!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel like that's where Seabs will be mighty handy if he makes another MOTYC 2013 set.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> btw, Zayn is actually really good at promos. For years of not talking he's naturally gifted behind the stick. It comes easy for him.


That's what I was wondering, I never saw him speak as Generico and this 2/3 falls with Cesaro was the first match I've seen of him as Zayn, and there wasn't a promo or anything.

The thing is, he gives such a phenomenal baby face performance in the ring that, as long as he is adequate on the mic, people are gonna love him. I mean, watching him wrestle anyone, but especially a good heel, it's literally impossible not to get behind the guy. I'm amazed at how good his facial expressions already are after being hidden by a mask so long. when Bryan started out he was just adequate too, now he's morphed into actually being very good, his break up with AJ was the moment I realized he'd finally become one of the better mic guys and not just average. So as long as Zayn isn't Verne Gagne bad, he will be more than alright.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> That's what I was wondering, I never saw him speak as Generico and this 2/3 falls with Cesaro was the first match I've seen of him as Zayn, and there wasn't a promo or anything.
> 
> The thing is, he gives such a phenomenal baby face performance in the ring that, as long as he is adequate on the mic, people are gonna love him. I mean, watching him wrestle anyone, but especially a good heel, it's literally impossible not to get behind the guy. I'm amazed at how good his facial expressions already are after being hidden by a mask so long. when Bryan started out he was just adequate too, now he's morphed into actually being very good, his break up with AJ was the moment I realized he'd finally become one of the better mic guys and not just average. So as long as Zayn isn't Verne Gagne bad, he will be more than alright.


His babyface work has always been top notch. Been considering him to be the best babyface in wrestling for years now. If not the overall best wrestler in the world. WWE knew what they were doing when they took the mask off and let him cut promos. It was almost the hidden layer of his game that fans of his as El Generico never knew he had. He was bound for WWE. Punker & Danielson were the best guys not in WWE for so long then that role was taken by Generico the moment they were nabbed. Only was fitting for him to get his chance. So far he's off to a rousing start. He's been given the chance to basically be who he was on the indies too. So there hasn't even been that tiny drawback phase that someone like Punk sort of had in his first year or two. The potential here is absurd.

I've never thought Danielson all that bland to begin with. Yeah, he wasn't gonna go on the mic and be someone like The Miz who's gonna blab and blab with confidence of that sort, but he was plenty solid and knew how to play his character. Especially if he was a dick. He was so easy to boo if you wanted the opponent to win. Danielson's work as a babyface has now been proven to the world. Glad he's shown everyone he's more than just that amazing in ring worker. He's always been good on all aspects. Never been in the same league as a Lance Storm where he's all _(in ring)_ show and no personality.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> His babyface work has always been top notch. Been considering him to be the best babyface in wrestling for years now. If not the overall best wrestler in the world. WWE knew what they were doing when they took the mask off and let him cut promos. It was almost the hidden layer of his game that fans of his as El Generico never knew he had. He was bound for WWE. Punker & Danielson were the best guys not in WWE for so long then that role was taken by Generico the moment they were nabbed. Only was fitting for him to get his chance. So far he's off to a rousing start. He's been given the chance to basically be who he was on the indies too. So there hasn't even been that tiny drawback phase that someone like Punk sort of had in his first year or two. The potential here is absurd.
> 
> I've never thought Danielson all that bland to begin with. Yeah, he wasn't gonna go on the mic and be someone like The Miz who's gonna blab and blab with confidence of that sort, but he was plenty solid and knew how to play his character. Especially if he was a dick. He was so easy to boo if you wanted the opponent to win. Danielson's work as a babyface has now been proven to the world. Glad he's shown everyone he's more than just that amazing in ring worker. He's always been good on all aspects. Never been in the same league as a Lance Storm where he's all _(in ring)_ show and no personality.


Well put.

You said you liked the 2nd match Zayn had with Cesaro better than the 2/3 falls, do you happen to recall the date of that one was well? I'm on an NXT binge right now, I've been slacking on it the past 3-4 months. We're you talking about that 3 way match with Leo Kruger?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Once he got the separation I knew he was going to bust it out. Glad he's already going to do it while in WWE. Smart move too. It'll easily give him something that separates him from the pack. Still have to get used to the knuckle lock run up the ropes DDTs being his finisher. No Brainbuster is the biggest adjustment. Already over the mask being gone since he made himself stand out & take notice right from the very first interview. He's gonna be huge. I have that good feeling.
> 
> Cesaro's strength to hold Generico and STILL hit Swiss Death. Couldn't believe that. The man still amazes me.


I really think he's gonna have no problem becoming a fan favorite. He's got so much versatility too. Plus so many awesome matchups possible when he gets the call up. :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Saw Zayn wrestle in person and I don't think he pulled out all the stops, but he was pretty impressive. He seemed pretty happy that the crowd was singing "Ole" though :lol

And has anyone ever seen themselves in the crowd while watching an event back? I kinda marked when I saw myself celebrating Bryan's title win. I'm the one on the left


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> Saw Zayn wrestle in person and I don't think he pulled out all the stops, but he was pretty impressive. He seemed pretty happy that the crowd was singing "Ole" though :lol
> 
> And has anyone ever seen themselves in the crowd while watching an event back? I kinda marked when I saw myself celebrating Bryan's title win. I'm the one on the left



You can see me during Triple H's entrance to wrestle Owen Hart at Mania 14. I'm just a happy as can be 12 year old with my dad and best friend wearing the brand new Austin 3:16 "Blood" shirt my pops had just bought me. That's the only Mania I've been to and it wasn't too long after that that my dad passed away. easily one of the 2 or 3 greatest moments of my life. If anyone watches that match I'm on the right hand side of the aisle 2 rows back, looking goofy as a mother fucker hah.

For those of you who went to SummerSlam, I bet it was splendid seeing DBry win the title. Thats one of those experiences youll never forget, The swift kick in the nuts of having Orton cash in must have been brutal though. I know part of you prolly realized it was for the best, that it would only make DBry even more over, but still. No way that wasn't a little disappointing seeing your guy get screwed like that. Wrestling is still real sometimes, dammit.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Great story about Mania 14. I wish I could've seen Austin wrestle live. My only chance was No Way Out 2001, but I was only 6 at the time 

I was fucking ecstatic when Bryan won. I expected it all the way, but when it actually happened (combined with the surprising finish), I couldn't stop marking. I was pissed initially when Orton cashed in, but then I realized that it would result in a good storyline. I have high hopes for the Bryan/Corporation storyline.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> Saw Zayn wrestle in person and I don't think he pulled out all the stops, but he was pretty impressive. He seemed pretty happy that the crowd was singing "Ole" though :lol
> 
> And has anyone ever seen themselves in the crowd while watching an event back? I kinda marked when I saw myself celebrating Bryan's title win. I'm the one on the left



Yer I have, it was from the night after Wrestlemania 28. I was no selling Rock's Promo, it was when he said he was going to be WWE Champion everyone was screaming Yes, Yes, Yes then they cross over to the crowd and you see me, my sister and mate just standing there blank. :lmao

Night got better though seeing the return of Brock :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It's crazy how most of the smarks/hardcore fans loved Rock 2011-2012, but hate him now :lol


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> It's crazy how most of the smarks/hardcore fans loved Rock 2011-2012, but hate him now :lol


Ahhhh God, it's my pleasure to say I've never like the Rock ever personally


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Rock when I was younger and I liked the night he returned. However just about everything after that is fairly bad to terrible, imo. It's not the same not being a kid. And in ring he's been dreadful.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> It's crazy how most of the smarks/hardcore fans loved Rock 2011-2012, but hate him now :lol


A lot of the "hate" is overreacting tbh. Too many people are letting the recent Rock run cloud their judgement of his overall career. You can say what you want on his recent run, thats fine. Its just not right seeing people say hes ruined his legacy and all that mess, or some folks overreacting on just how bad hes been lately. Its best he stays away anyway so people can cool off from all this.



shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> Yer I have, it was from the night after Wrestlemania 28. I was no selling Rock's Promo, it was when he said he was going to be WWE Champion everyone was screaming Yes, Yes, Yes then they cross over to the crowd and you see me, my sister and mate just standing there blank. :lmao
> 
> Night got better though seeing the return of Brock :mark: :mark: :mark:


That entire night was great. I dont care what anyone says. Great crowd, great Henry/Punk match, Brock's return, you may not like Rock but he was fine that night etc. Liked it better than this years post Mania raw.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

That Punk/Henry match. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Props to the Paramore fan for recommending Finlay/Palumbo. I only saw one of their matches (5/30/08), but it was really fun for a five minute fight. Palumbo threw some nasty punches and nice knees and elbows. This caused me to watch some of his other bouts.

vs. Punk 5/16/08: Pretty fun match for Punk fans. Palumbo has the obvious size advantage that is played up here as Punk works from the bottom. Love how Punk always tries to throw forearms and punches whenever Palumbo had a hold of him to sell the struggle. Everything about Palumbo is just so vicious; every hair pull and every fist is hit with aggression. Punk uses his counter-wrestling and anticipation of Palumbo's moves to fight back. Palumbo also counters one of Punk's kicks with one of the nastiest clotheslines I have seen. Finish felt a bit abrupt, but it was a good match.

vs. Matt Hardy (3/16/08): God damn those punches look beautiful. Puts The Undertaker to shame. Once again, the size difference between Hardy and Chuck is played up with the early Hardy shoulderblocks. WHAT THE HELL Chuck Palumbo can fly. Now Hardy throwing some nice punches. Man this is fun. No breaks in the action here guys. Fun four minutes. Fuck Chavo Guerrero.

vs. Matt Jackson (2/22/08): Yes, that's Matt from the Young Bucks. Man looks awful here. HOLY CRAP at Palumbo's big boot early in the match. Jackson is bumping around like a Ziggler. Damn that Fallaway Slam was sick. Now Chuck does that pull-out-from-two-count spot that we were talking about earlier today. Fun squash that Yeah1993 and Yeah1993 fans will like.

vs. Jamie Noble (7/12/07): These guys had a real fun feud in late 07/early 08 that consisted of a pretty cool double turn. Noble is steady racking up those upset victory on a current face Palumbo that is going into madness. God damn Jamie Noble is so good at fighting from underneath. Even the way he bends his knees in a stance looks cool. The fans are now starting to support Jamie Noble, and why wouldn't these Carolinans do so? :lol Michael Cole freaks out about Michelle McCool taking off her shirt. Jamie Noble!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Well put.
> 
> You said you liked the 2nd match Zayn had with Cesaro better than the 2/3 falls, do you happen to recall the date of that one was well? I'm on an NXT binge right now, I've been slacking on it the past 3-4 months. We're you talking about that 3 way match with Leo Kruger?


6/12. After seeing the full version I think I can have the 2/3 falls a touch higher than their second match now. But the difference in quality between the two isn't very much. Both are excellent.

The triple threat happened on 7/17. It ruled too. Also so did the Zayn vs Kruger match from 7/10.



Brye said:


> I really think he's gonna have no problem becoming a fan favorite. He's got so much versatility too. Plus so many awesome matchups possible when he gets the call up. :mark:


Zayn vs Swagger right off the top of my head has me going bonkers. Or if we're lucky, vs McIntyre. :mark:



funnyfaces1 said:


> Props to the Paramore fan for recommending Finlay/Palumbo. I only saw one of their matches (5/30/08), but it was really fun for a five minute fight. Palumbo threw some nasty punches and nice knees and elbows. This caused me to watch some of his other bouts.
> 
> vs. Matt Jackson (2/22/08): Yes, that's Matt from the Young Bucks. Man looks awful here. HOLY CRAP at Palumbo's big boot early in the match. Jackson is bumping around like a Ziggler. Damn that Fallaway Slam was sick. Now Chuck does that pull-out-from-two-count spot that we were talking about earlier today. Fun squash that Yeah1993 and Yeah1993 fans will like.


YES.

the squash vs Matt Jackson has made my list of matches I've liked from Smackdown so far in 2008. A lot of squash have been better than some matches that have gotten time. For example I think only one MVP match has made the cut. Meanwhile Chuck Palumbo has almost had a match I've liked every other week. He had some of the worst segments ever so far, but still, some good outings. Can't wait till I move past WM and see the rest of his goodies. 

The final singles match he had vs Noble in 2008 that got around seven minutes is quite good. Didn't know they actually gave time to end their program. Fitting. As most of their matches were fine but way, way too short to be anything.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You guys are making me feel old with your ages during WM 14 and NWO 2001 haha. Not that I'm super old (32) but still. 

Only PPV I went to live was IYH Good Friends, Better Enemies. I went to the Raw in 97 when Owen won the IC title from Rock and I went to a couple Saturday Night Main Events and Superstars tapings but you cant see me (not Cena pun intended) anywhere. Good times. I have a good friend who was at Judgement Day 2008 and another good friend who was at Raw 1000 and you can see them throughout. I went to HS with some kids who went to Over the Edge 1999 in KC. I almost went....so glad I didn't. I was a SR in HS and had the ok from parents but wanted to study or something. 

If Mania 31 is in Dallas I have fam 10 minutes from Cowboys Stadium I will be there. I dont even give a shit where I sit. I have really had the itch to go to a PPV lately. Elimination Chamber is in Minneapolis which makes me wanna go cuz I effin love it there and its only a few hours away.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

*WWE Championship : Cm Punk vs Mark Henry Raw (4/2/12) 
*
What a cracker of a match this is, honestly it wouldn't of looked out of place being one of the triple main events that occurred the night before. But so much of the story of the match was what happened in the Punk/Jericho match the night before. Punk narrowly escaped with his WWE Title, after a classic with Chris Jericho in which Punks back was specifically targeted. This is where Henry focused the majority of his offense, something about a beatdown by Mark Henry just looks so raw and legit and his trash talking is just awesome. Punk was also great in this, his selling of the back was immense and his comebacks were timed and done so well. Well it obviously has to be noted how batshit crazy the crowd was also, especially for anything Punk did. The ending may not of come off as the best as no one wants to see a count out, but it put over Henry as a monster who just mauled the champion and sets up for a future rematch. I'm struggling to think of a TV match in 2012 that is as good as this, just an absolutely great TV match. 
*
*****


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

shawnmichaelsisgod said:


> *WWE Championship : Cm Punk vs Mark Henry Raw (4/2/12)
> *
> What a cracker of a match this is, honestly it wouldn't of looked out of place being one of the triple main events that occurred the night before. But so much of the story of the match was what happened in the Punk/Jericho match the night before. Punk narrowly escaped with his WWE Title, after a classic with Chris Jericho in which Punks back was specifically targeted. This is where Henry focused the majority of his offense, something about a beatdown by Mark Henry just looks so raw and legit and his trash talking is just awesome. Punk was also great in this, his selling of the back was immense and his comebacks were timed and done so well. Well it obviously has to be noted how batshit crazy the crowd was also, especially for anything Punk did. The ending may not of come off as the best as no one wants to see a count out, but it put over Henry as a monster who just mauled the champion and sets up for a future rematch. I'm struggling to think of a TV match in 2012 that is as good as this, just an absolutely great TV match.
> *
> *****


Both of their matches are wonderful. This one and the one a couple weeks later. Ugh....I don't usually care too much who goes over but I wish Henry had won the strap from Cena at MitB. Bryan could have then beat Henry at Summerslam and made him tap and Orton still could have cashed in. Oh well.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Yer I hold their no DQ rematch in England in high regard also, I was really hoping this sort of mini TV feud would of transitioned into a PPV bout but what can you do.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Both of their matches are wonderful. This one and the one a couple weeks later. Ugh....I don't usually care too much who goes over but I wish Henry had won the strap from Cena at MitB. Bryan could have then beat Henry at Summerslam and made him tap and Orton still could have cashed in. Oh well.



Believe me, I'm as big a fan of Henry as anyone, but the fact that DANIEL BRYAN beat JOHN FUCKING CENA clean, in the middle of the ring, WITH A RUNNING FUCKING KNEE, is what truly made that night special. I think having Bryan beat Henry would not have meant nearly as much. Beating Cena clean for the title just doesn't happen all that often, if at all. He's like Hogan, you tell me the number of times Hogan lost clean in the middle for a PPV main event, I'm sure you can count it on one had haha.

That doesn't mean I still wouldn't like to see another Bryan vs Henry program sometime before Henry retires. That would be great. Right now what I'd LOVE is to see Henry win the WHC from Del Rio and have Ziggler chase him for it :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Henry 4/2/12 is awesome. GOAT selling performance from the GOAT himself. Henry and Punk have scary good chemistry. Even their three minute matches are fun.

BLITZKRIEG!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Believe me, I'm as big a fan of Henry as anyone, but the fact that DANIEL BRYAN beat JOHN FUCKING CENA clean, in the middle of the ring, WITH A RUNNING FUCKING KNEE, is what truly made that night special. I think having Bryan beat Henry would not have meant nearly as much. Beating Cena clean for the title just doesn't happen all that often, if at all. He's like Hogan, you tell me the number of times Hogan lost clean in the middle for a PPV main event, I'm sure you can count it on one had haha.
> 
> That doesn't mean I still wouldn't like to see another Bryan vs Henry program sometime before Henry retires. That would be great. Right now what I'd LOVE is to see Henry win the WHC from Del Rio and have Ziggler chase him for it :mark:


Oh I see what you are saying and agree to an extent. I just really wanted to see Henry win that WWE title especially after his recent interview with Rosenberg. Made me like the dude that much more. And yes Bryan beating Cena clean was amazing. I marked like a mother fucker in front of my Cena lovin friend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I was gonna chime in with the same cause. Danielson vs Henry would have been awesome. Although compared to vs Cena & Danielson actually pinning him clean, it doesn't compare. WWE made the right decision with what we got.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah it was a good call for Bryan to go over clean on Cena. I just hope Bryan gets the title back again at some point. I get the feeling it will be awhile though. 

I have little doubt in my mind Henry will turn heel again. When he does I hope he gets back in the WWE title picture. I'd love to see feuds over the WWE title with him and Bryan and him and Punk.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just rewatched cena/Henry such a great match, the psychology is off the charts


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> You guys are making me feel old with your ages during WM 14 and NWO 2001 haha. Not that I'm super old (32) but still.


I feel like 18 is still pretty young for a hardcore wrestling fan, considering I was pretty young for the ATTITUDE ERA~! I still prefer Ruthless Aggression Era anyways 

I wonder how the upcoming Bryan vs. Orton matches will be. I love them both as workers, but I feel that their against one another have been in good but not great territory, although their Street Fight was fun.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I feel like 18 is still pretty young for a hardcore wrestling fan, considering I was pretty young for the ATTITUDE ERA~! I still prefer Ruthless Aggression Era anyways
> 
> I wonder how the upcoming Bryan vs. Orton matches will be. I love them both as workers, but I feel that their against one another have been in good but not great territory, although their Street Fight was fun.



Ruthless Aggression is underrated for sure. 

I loved the Bryan/Orton street fight. I'm sure their matches will be good. I fully expect Orton to retain at NoC over Bryan with some sort of craziness. Battleground is the new PPV and they are gonna want to promote the hell out of it so maybe Punk & Bryan vs HHH & Orton? Maybe a second shot at the title for Bryan against Orton at HiaC? I could see Orton v Bryan v Punk in the cell which I think would be awesome. I get the feeling though that this wont be a short title reign for Orton. Like he holds it until Rumble or EC....maybe even Mania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm expecting mediocre matches like we've been given. The one drawback other than the obvious being Orton as Champion.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Any of you guys go on cagematch.net? It's essentially a huge ass wrestling database. I don't remember if someone recommended it to me here or not but it's awesome. It keeps track of W/L vs different opponents, different match types, yearly, etc. Keeps records for just about anything you need to know.

http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=796&page=22&type=byOpponent

That's the link to HBK's by opponent page. Amazed to see that Shawn went 10-75-16 against Bret. I believe it factors in houseshows but that still shocks me.

Also great if you're trying to hunt down match dates.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Cody lives off of that site haha.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Now that I think of it, he might have been the one to tell me, haha.

I love that I can just fully look through everyone's match history.

John Cena's 2012 year that was so bad it sent him into a tailspin: 164-14-6. Oh the humanity. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Cactus Jack vs Triple H at Royal Rumble 2000 or Mankind vs HBk at Mindgames, which is better?


Trips/Foley. Though if it wasn't for the lame non-finish, Shawn/Foley would be *perfect*.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HBk/Mankind is my fav, Foley match so I will go with that one


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Cesaro vs Zayn was incredible btw. Maybe the best WWE match this year.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It would have been MOTY if not for SS. I have it at ****1/2, while Punk/Brock has the same rating and Cena/Bryan ****3/4


----------



## hardyorton (Apr 18, 2009)

Srdjan99 said:


> It would have been MOTY if not for SS. I have it at ****1/2, while Punk/Brock has the same rating and Cena/Bryan ****3/4


I agree with this. Those SS matches were WWE's best this year.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brye said:


> Any of you guys go on cagematch.net? It's essentially a huge ass wrestling database. I don't remember if someone recommended it to me here or not but it's awesome. It keeps track of W/L vs different opponents, different match types, yearly, etc. Keeps records for just about anything you need to know.
> 
> http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=796&page=22&type=byOpponent
> 
> ...


Taker is 11-12-1 against Christian 

Although interestingly enough, they've only wrestled one-on-one once. 2/13/01 Sunday Night Heat. :lmao

OMG, TAKER IS 0-54 AGAINST ULTIMATE WARRIOR. 

He also faced Eddie Guerrero at a few House Shows in 2005. Wish we could see 'em.


----------



## Zeppex (Jun 25, 2011)

Brye said:


> Now that I think of it, he might have been the one to tell me, haha.
> 
> I love that I can just fully look through everyone's match history.
> 
> John Cena's 2012 year that was so bad it sent him into a tailspin: 164-14-6. Oh the humanity. :lmao


lol in 2013 he has a 94.4 winning percentage...
Hart's best was in 1994 he had 95.7%
Michaels best was in 1996 he had a 92.5% and didn't break into the 80's til 2009.

crazy shit rly


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Taker is 11-12-1 against Christian
> 
> Although interestingly enough, they've only wrestled one-on-one once. 2/13/01 Sunday Night Heat. :lmao
> 
> ...


Fuck.  Eddie/Taker is one of those dream matches of mine.

And :lmao 0-54 vs Warrior.

----------------------------------------------------

*Smackdown July 21st 2005*
_Super Crazy vs Rey Mysterio_






Never knew this existed. While it wasn't as good as I was hoping it to be, it was a solid encounter. Eddie on commentary and Psicosis/Juvy outside the ring took a bit of attention off the match but was actually fairly entertaining. Eddie was chilling on commentary at some points. Despite this storyline being considered a dud, Eddie was fantastic as that character. Now, onto the match, which was sort of just...there. Rey got in most of the offense in the start and Crazy kept leaving the ring and strategizing with the fellow Mexicools. Crazy manages to take control and uses that wacky variation of the surfboard. Lots of cool springboard moonsault variations in this match too. Crazy actually manages to look really good in this despite being part of a comedy trio. Wish WWE would do this with Drew Mac. Crazy gets hung up on the 2nd rope but NO! Eddie breaks a rake over Rey's back to end it in DQ~!

Fun match.





Also, this is awesome.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

Brye said:


>



:mark: :mark: :mark: 

DAT :flair3


One of my favourites, so much passion and truth in that promo.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

^ I legit watched that promo about 30 times.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Double post because Ric Flair approves.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

That Flair promo is 10x better than it should be just because he's berating Carlito, aka the suckiest sucker to ever suck on this planet.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Finished up Fall Brawl 1995. Two good matches to balance out an extremely unremarkable card. Johnny Badd, otherwise known as Marc Mero facing Pillman is definately the highlight. While I thought the match stuttered at points, put on a worthwhile exhibition. As for Anderson/Flair, good but I expected something more.

B. Badd vs Pillman ***3/4
skipped the undercard but there was something that caught my eye. By God, it was the worst promo ever. If anyone is curious, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKC8d_KWk6s
Anderson vs Flair ***1/2
WarGames idk, *? cant really rate something like this. It's a terrible match anyway.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cagematch.net is legit. I can spend quite a bit of time just looking up result after result. 

(Y) review on Mysterio vs Crazy, Brye. I kind of remember that happening. Think it was advertised on the WWE website that week and I was excited to check it out. Still think Super Crazy's best WWE match may have been that shocker where he worked vs Orton in 2006 and it was ultra-competitive.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

That Flair promo on Carlito is the best thing in the history of the world. I could watch that all day long.

Zayn/Cesaro 2 out of 3 falls = :mark: Brilliant stuff. Found it a bit spotty but I'll be damned if they weren't awesome and innovative spots. Jesus that ending sequence was insane. I also really liked that a boot to the face and a sleeper hold brought about the first 2 falls. In recent years WWE has had a tendency to go for finisher fests to the point that we all know that hitting your finisher for the first time in a big match isn't the end so I really liked 2 regular but effective moves getting the falls here. Same goes for Bryan in the SS match with the knee. 

******


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn was a fantastic match. I can't wait to see what they do with Zayn when he's called up to the big leagues. Cesaro is so outstanding it makes me excited to think of who the main eventers in the next few years are going to be.

NXT is awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched it again today, just as good if not fucking better, what a belter of a match it is, just awseome transitions.

Had to chuckle at JBL after he said Brock beat the legendary Randy Couture............but also the Sports Entertainment star HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still need to get around watching Punker vs Brock & Cena vs Danielson from the PPV feed. Saw a gif of Brock chucking Punk on the announce table. Looked more brutal than it originally appeared. Might as well watch them now. No reason not to.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Taker never beat Warrior in one of those bodybag matches? Wow. I saw two of those live at house shows and Warrior went over both of them but still surprised Taker didn't win a few. 

I will have to look up Warrior's winning percentage. I'm sure it's pretty good. Thanks for the heads up on this website. I go to historyofwwe.com a lot. 

I hope someone makes a gif of Bryan hitting the knee and the 1-2-3 over Cena.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Still need to get around watching Punker vs Brock & Cena vs Danielson from the PPV feed. Saw a gif of Brock chucking Punk on the announce table. Looked more brutal than it originally appeared. Might as well watch them now. No reason not to.


Also the second time where Brock throws Punk over the other table where the monitors etc are still intact, one must have caught Punk a bit sharp, but it did allow Btock to setup the awesome stomp on Punk bit.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

MY MOTY BRO'S

1. Punk V Taker WM ****1/2 (I'm biased, two of my favourites ever stealing the show at WM)
2. Punk V Lesnar SS ****1/2
3. Punk V Cena Raw/Cena V DB SS ****1/4 (need to re-watch these)
4. DB V Cesaro Raw ****
5. Raw MITB ****

And you can throw a bunch of Shield tag matches here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Also the second time where Brock throws Punk over the other table where the monitors etc are still intact, one must have caught Punk a bit sharp, but it did allow Btock to setup the awesome stomp on Punk bit.


Yeah it did. Cole called it right away and you see the cut on Punk's back after he was thrown. I was always wondering what Brock did when he jumped in the air on the outside. Now I know. Good lord that spot was brutal. The man can jump so high in the air; THAT FREAK.

oh and that match is more than flawless. I can't find a single thing wrong with it. Even with the Heyman interference. I knew it was gonna happen. Hardly a drawback in the slightest. Punk wanted Brock. But at the same time, he wanted Heyman more. It cost him big. Holy shit that was still magnificent. Goosebumps from that energy. It's gonna stick with me forever. I loved the cage match vs Trips. No doubt. However this Brock match is so stellar it can rival the Cena match from Extreme Rules. Those two are the definitive matches for the man. And they've happened in the last two years. Amazing.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Taker never beat Warrior in one of those bodybag matches? Wow. I saw two of those live at house shows and Warrior went over both of them but still surprised Taker didn't win a few. .


We need Taker vs. Warrior at WM30 for DAT TAKER REDEMPTION storyline! :taker


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Last night I had a freaking nightmare. Rock/Cena III. I kid you guys not. I dreamt that there was a little video package for it. Scariest dream I ever had.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Last night I had a freaking nightmare. Rock/Cena III. I kid you guys not. I dreamt that there was a little video package for it. Scariest dream I ever had.


 Were they promoting an Ironman match between the two? :vince


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


>


Guys like you and I'm talking about GUYS LIKE YOU! :flair2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I see Cal is viewing the thread. Hey, the Boiler Room Brawl between Undertaker & Mankind is still awesome. Best part will always be when they're brawling in the hallway while the other wrestlers are seen shouting and watching. Arguably the most surreal kayfabe moment around. JR's commentary wasn't hyperbole. It did look like a prison riot. Oh wrestling. How you fill me with so much joy.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

That Ric Flair and Carlito segment never gets old.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls ****1/4

That last fall :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I see Cal is viewing the thread. Hey, the Boiler Room Brawl between Undertaker & Mankind is still awesome. Best part will always be when they're brawling in the hallway while the other wrestlers are seen shouting and watching. Arguably the most surreal kayfabe moment around. JR's commentary wasn't hyperbole. It did look like a prison riot. Oh wrestling. How you fill me with so much joy.


That Boiler Room brawl is one of the best things Mankind ever did, i love it so much. The intensity of it literally makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. I can't even give it a star rating, because its so different from anything else that's ever been done. Those two just beat the hell out of each other in a dark room with little to no commentary. I love it love it love it.

Anyways, as far as Brock matches go, he rarely if ever has a bad one, and certainly none have been flat out bad since he got back. I will always hold a special place in my heart for his cell match with Taker, that thing was just nuts. I've never seen taker get thrown around like that. That Brock man, he's just an animal.

1. Brock vs Punk at SS
2. Brock vs Taker Cell Match
3. Brock vs Kurt at SS
4. Brock vs Cena at ER

I think all of those matches are worthy of high marks, it's really only personal preference that makes me put Punk vs Lesnar first. I could watch Brock throw around an undersized baby face all day, the man puts on as good a monster heel performance as I've ever seen.

Also, for anyone that owns the Brock DVD set, the interview segments with him are just hilarious. He talks about how he doesn't feel pain because "I don't have time for that shit" and that he's not a wrestler anymore, he's just a "ruthless ass kicker with no conscience. I just want to hurt people. I just want them to feel the pain." :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The "commentary" during the bulk of the boiler room brawl is hilarious. A number of times JR & Vince simply go "oh!" or "ahhh" at all the bumps. Like they couldn't speak but had to let us know they're still there. Match is an absolute blast. Love the way it starts too with Undertaker down the narrow hallway about to enter the boiler room. It's just interesting to see.

I'd def have the HIAC vs Taker make my favorite Brock matches list. That was his best match of his career up until he returned to work vs Cena & Punker. I have to see those matches vs Benoit & Mysterio again. Stretcher match vs Show is a top five match for me too. Glorious contest. Steel Cage vs Trips could be really high. Tbf, I'm fresher on that match than some others. Either way, if that gets knocked out of top five or ten, then the man's track record is sparkling. _(It probably will b/c the Angle SummerSlam match + Iron Man, vs Rock, & vs Eddie weren't even counted here.)_


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just rewatched Punk/Lesnar for the first time. Match totally holds up, and I'm going with ****1/2. Brock throwing Punk around is just amazing, and Punk's babyface performance is just terrific. When Brock gets him in the bear hug, and Punk has the most agonizing expression on his face, you can't help but feel for him. The Heyman involvement doesn't bother me; it fit the story. When he trips over the steps while backpedaling away from Punk early in the match :lol

The submission sequences were also pretty great. I never get used to Brock teasing the tap out. The way he waves that hand is just too convincing. (Or maybe I'm that easy.) I love Brock ramming his body into the steel steps when Punk gets ready to come at him with them. So much greatness in this match.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Smackdown:

Alberto Del Rio vs Christian - ***1/2-***3/4
If you loved their SS match then you need to check it out. Really good match with great pace.

Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - ***1/2
Great match as usual. They used the cage pretty good and the last minutes were highly enjoyable.

Show and Henry was 3MB was a fun squash. Can't wait for their future match with Shield.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The "commentary" during the bulk of the boiler room brawl is hilarious. A number of times JR & Vince simply go "oh!" or "ahhh" at all the bumps. Like they couldn't speak but had to let us know they're still there. Match is an absolute blast. Love the way it starts too with Undertaker down the narrow hallway about to enter the boiler room. It's just interesting to see.
> 
> I'd def have the HIAC vs Taker make my favorite Brock matches list. That was his best match of his career up until he returned to work vs Cena & Punker. I have to see those matches vs Benoit & Mysterio again. Stretcher match vs Show is a top five match for me too. Glorious contest. Steel Cage vs Trips could be really high. Tbf, I'm fresher on that match than some others. Either way, if that gets knocked out of top five or ten, then the man's track record is sparkling. _(It probably will b/c the Angle SummerSlam match + Iron Man, vs Rock, & vs Eddie weren't even counted here.)_


Hi match with Eddie is just fabulous, I forgot to put that in my previous post. Eddies baby faced performance is so good there, and Brock is just Brock. "Just die Eddie! Just die like you always do!" :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part about that program for me was Brock coming out in a sombrero dancing, mocking Eddie. Seeing Brock do that. Yeah. Who could forget? Hilarious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 10 Brock matches from what I can recall: (no specific order)

vs Eddie
vs Taker (HIAC)
vs Benoit
vs Cena
vs Angle (II)
vs Angle (III)
vs HHH (III)
vs Punk
vs Mysterio
vs Rock



cjack828 said:


> Also, for anyone that owns the Brock DVD set, the interview segments with him are just hilarious. He talks about how he doesn't feel pain because "I don't have time for that shit" and that he's not a wrestler anymore, he's just a "ruthless ass kicker with no conscience. I just want to hurt people. I just want them to feel the pain." :lmao


That part had me in stitches. :lmao

His delivery with that voice is what makes it really hilarious. "I don't feel pain. I don't even know what pain is, I have no time for it. I let others feel pain, I live off adrenaline".


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Top 10 Brock matches from what I can recall: (no specific order)
> 
> vs Eddie
> vs Taker (HIAC)
> ...



YES! That was the quote I knew I screwed it up a little. Everyone should thank their lucky stars they got to see Brock Lesnar wrestle. There has never ever been another guy like him in the history of this business, and I can promise you no one ever will be. He's like a cross between the ruthless monster ass kicking heel like Vader, mixed with the intensity, mat wrestling and technical proficiency of a Kurt Angle. His matches are just a big deal, I for one buy every ppv he wrestles on, and I bought every UFC he fought on (UFC 100 might be the greatest ppv ever).

Can some PLEASE make a gif of the faces Punk and Paul Heyman make to each other after Heyman breaks up the pin count following Punks GTS on Lesnar? Oh my god that is just some fantastic stuff :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Basically ever Brock match we plugged. Sounds about right. Except for the Big Show one missing.

Matches vs RVD deserve a shout out. Specifically the blast that is vs him @ Vengeance '02. Do love me w/Tajiri vs Edge & Mysterio from Smackdown too. That's such a stellar little bout.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

He's had so much great stuff that I knew I wouldn't remember everything. Stretch with Big Show as well as the Smackdown match where the ring collapses are awesome. RVD from Vengeance is great too. Haven't seen the tournament tag match with Tajiri but I'm not surprised it's good considering the talent involved. Taker match from Unforgiven is good and I don't really remember biker chain that much but I thought it was decent even though HS hates it. Triple threat with Show and Taker is a TV gem that often gets overlooked.

Even his squashes are entertaining. Really dig the one with Randy Orton from 2002, can only imagine how good a match between them would've been in 2004/2005 had Brock not left. Even if nobody here might agree with me, I still wanna see it at some point in 2014. A match with workhorse Sheamus can also be a great brawl.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> He's had so much great stuff that I knew I wouldn't remember everything. Stretch with Big Show as well as the Smackdown match where the ring collapses are awesome. RVD from Vengeance is great too. Haven't seen the tournament tag match with Tajiri but I'm not surprised it's good considering the talent involved. Taker match from Unforgiven is good and I don't really remember biker chain that much but I thought it was decent even though HS hates it. Triple threat with Show and Taker is a TV gem that often gets overlooked.
> 
> Even his squashes are entertaining. Really dig the one with Randy Orton from 2002, can only imagine how good a match between them would've been in 2004/2005 had Brock not left. Even if nobody here might agree with me, I still wanna see it at some point in 2014. A match with workhorse Sheamus can also be a great brawl.



Lesnar. Sheamus. Last Man Standing. :mark: :mark: :mark:

I'm watching the Last Man Standing match between Umaga and Cena from RR07, I think one of you on here recommended it to me a while back and I never got the chance to watch it. For the record, it's stellar. It's funny that Cena was still getting the "Cena Sucks" chants back then, however, he most certainly did not suck in this match. He looks to be about 15-20 pounds lighter than he is now, and he actually does some great selling and bumping for Umaga in this match. His abdomen is wrapped to start the bout, and Umaga goes right for it, kicking him directly in the ribs and causing Cena to roll right out of the ring. One of the highlights was Cena throwing the ring steps right at Umagas head, a move he totally stole from Foley (along with the tree of whoa elbow drop) and it totally don't care because it looks awesome. If you want to be the best, you got to steal from the best, and for a big brawling type like Umaga the best to steal from is Foley. Nothing about this match is stale or boring, and I have to say I'm VERY impressed with Cena's performance, he doesn't carry the bout or anything, but he definitely holds his own. **** from me.

This got me thinking about what the best Last Man Standing matches are in your opinion. For me it's:

1. Foley vs Rocky 
(And then in any order really)
2. Jericho vs Triple H
3. Batista vs Undertaker
4. Umaga vs Cena
5. Benoit vs Edge
6. Shane vs Big Show
7. Triple H vs Randy Orton


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it just me or is Elimination Chamber 2011 one of the most underrated PPV's ever?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do really dislike the Biker Chain match. Only Brock match other than vs Goldberg I really don't like overall. The rare miss. And vs Undertaker too. Their chemistry prior to that match proved to be nothing short of amazing.

I'd be on board and telling everyone else they should be too for Brock vs Sheamus. Match like that would be killer. That's officially who I want Brock to wrestle vs next. Or Undertaker. Or Danielson. I'm not picky.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

In an extremely shitty mood, and move back to uni in a day, you guys are the experts need some WRASSLIN


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> In an extremely shitty mood, and move back to uni in a day, you guys are the experts need some WRASSLIN







Watch that and smile.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Blitzkrieg wasn't smiling after taking the finish. :mark:

Watch that whole show, tbhayley.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Blitzkrieg :mark:

God bless whoever made the Blitzkrieg pack on XWT. One of the most fun packs I've ever downloaded off of there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Blitzkrieg :mark:
> 
> God bless whoever made the Blitzkrieg pack on XWT. One of the most fun packs I've ever downloaded off of their.


Wish i could use torrents, that is one id certainly like


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Who the fuck is Pantera and where did he come from? Never heard of him in my life. 10 minutes of fun right here.






TAKA is great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Luchador. He's pretty legit. Even in his old age. More good than bad, I'd say. At least I had fun with him when he came for Chikara.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thanks guys, I think I'll check out that rey/super crazy though, and may indulge in some nitro later


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Great to see my BLITZKRIEG mention have some effect. Man was immaculate. Please watch any and every match of his, redskins.

:lmao at Randy Orton's promo on Smackdown. I could not take him seriously when he pointed at his face and said that it was the face of the WWE. And then Daniel Bryan calls him "pretty" :lol

Undertaker/Lesnar Biker Chain match at No Mercy is crap. Very boring.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

ATF said:


> Is it just me or is Elimination Chamber 2011 one of the most underrated PPV's ever?


:yes I enjoyed that show much more then i thought i ever would.

Also please WWE give me BROCK vs SHEAMUS :homer


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good to know a segment for the big angle takes place on Smackdown. Fact it involves an Orton promo is alarming, but still, Smackdown needs to be included in this angle all around. I'll be watching tonight as soon as it's aired.

Also BLITZKRIEG. And SUPER CALO just b/c.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SUPER CALO, him and Malenko are my new favorites after watching all the Nitros.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LA PARKA


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> LA PARKA


LA Park


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Only Super Calo match I think I've ever watched is the 8 man from Souled Out 1998, which to this day remains a personal favourite of mine. La Parka going HAM with a chair at the end is one of my favourite moments, ever. He's the fucking man. I might go on a La Parka session tonight, I can't think of a better and more fun way to spend a rainy friday night on your own.

Edit: Ninjad on pimping La Parka before La Parka was even mentioned. Ih8uall


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Maple Leaf Muscle said:


> LA Park


:hb



FluxCapacitor said:


> Only Super Calo match I think I've ever watched is the 8 man from Souled Out 1998, which to this day remains a personal favourite of mine. La Parka going HAM with a chair at the end is one of my favourite moments, ever. He's the fucking man. I might go on a La Parka session tonight, I can't think of a better and more fun way to spend a rainy friday night on your own.
> 
> Edit: Ninjad on pimping La Parka before La Parka was even mentioned. Ih8uall


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Calo had tons of great matches on Nitro as well as his great match with Rey at Fall Brawl 96.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SUPER CALO! Love the match he had on PPV with Rey in 1996. Terrible crowd, but man I was anticipating Rey's comeback in that match so much, and when it finally happened I was ecstatic. That's not to say that Calo was bad; in fact it shows that Calo had a great control segment. Calo/Parka 6/16/97 is also another fun match of his.

LA PARK (and Cody's brother)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EL DANDY & PSICOSIS/PSYCHOSIS for more lucha plugs on the cats used by WCW. El Dandy's splat at Souled Out 1998 will forever be the funniest moment in wrestling history.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT HYPNOSIS. Bless Bret Hart for putting El Dandy over like that. Thank goodness that Yeah1993 led me to the straight path with El Dandy's greatness. Man was a beast in Mexico.

MR. JL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The most personality Bret Hart ever showed. And it was in WCW to boot. Stellar. Ok, fine. That ties for the most hilarious moment in wrestling history. El Dandy was still involved.

JUVENTUD

Oh hell yeah, The Juice is the bomb. So was his father if we're going into a bit more of the Mexico realm.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Isn't there an extremely great Mysterio/Psychosis match from like 96?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Isn't there an extremely great Mysterio/Psychosis match from like 96?


You mean the 2/3 Falls one from ECW? Was from '95. Or there is a '96 one from Japan, havn't seen it though.

EDIT - Or the one from Bash At The Beach lol, probably the one!!!!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Think I was thinking of the ECW 2 out of 3 falls match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Think I was thinking of the ECW 2 out of 3 falls match.







:mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:mark:

Thanks!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bash at the Beach 96 is the second greatest opener of all-time. Mysterio and Psychosis generally had tremendous chemistry with each other.

Love Juventud Guerrera ever since his Juice days when I was a little mark henry1). He was so much fun to play as in WCW/nWo Revenge. One of the best wrestlers ever in WCW. I need to check out some more Fuerza though. Lately been binging on El Mariachi.

YUJI NAGATA! He too was in WCW/nWo Revenge, so he counts as well.

Big Show and Mark Henry need to stay a team for at least a year. They're too good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Psychosis doing the Tombstone + arms crossed pin =


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bash at the Beach 96 is the second greatest opener of all-time. Mysterio and Psychosis generally had tremendous chemistry with each other.
> 
> Love Juventud Guerrera ever since his Juice days when I was a little mark henry1). He was so much fun to play as in *WCW/nWo Revenge*. One of the best wrestlers ever in WCW. I need to check out some more Fuerza though. Lately been binging on El Mariachi.
> 
> ...


DAT GROUNDBREAKING GAME. :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Kicking each other on the ground = ~~!

edit Holy shit Rey was a fuckin machine.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Went back and watched SummerSlam for like the fourth time yesterday (safe to say I'll be getting the DVD ), and the way HHH goes, "RING IT." during Randy's cash-in gets me every time :HHH


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Kicking each other on the ground = ~~!
> 
> edit Holy shit Rey was a fuckin machine.


Fuck yeah, people think Rey is great when he joined WWE (which of course he is), but man Pre-WWF - fuuuuuuucccccckkkkkkk :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah that match was pretty wild. Great stuff. Apparently Meltzer gave their Bash at the Beach 96 match ****3/4. I know I've seen it but it has been a while. Is that match on the Biggest Little Man DVD? I think there's a different ECW match on there from 95, but not the Bash one.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> DAT GROUNDBREAKING GAME. :mark: :mark: :mark:


+1

Fucking classic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah that match was pretty wild. Great stuff. Apparently Meltzer gave their Bash at the Beach 96 match ****3/4. I know I've seen it but it has been a while. Is that match on the Biggest Little Man DVD? I think there's a different ECW match on there from 95, but not the Bash one.


Yeah, 26.09.95, sure this is the one:


----------



## alibaba (Aug 23, 2013)

zep81 said:


> :mark:


Oh man, you are my hero.
That is classic match.
Do you have more?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Yeah, 26.09.95, sure this is the one:


Yeah, this is it. I have the Biggest Little Man DVD but haven't watched it in ages. Do you have the Bash 96 match handy?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, this is it. I have the Biggest Little Man DVD but haven't watched it in ages. Do you have the Bash 96 match handy?







Some great viewing tonight!!!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, you're quick. Thanks again.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rey/psychosis 2/3 falls was good but I prefer the bash 96 one, still great matches


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've seen WCW/nWo Revenge at multiple second hand stores for what I think were cheap prices. I might get it sometime. Can you play as la Parka? If so, yes, I will get it.


WWE Rey smokes pre-WWE Rey, if I'm perfectly honest (and I am being teh perfectly honest). He didn't have anything on level with Eddie at Halloween Havoc (and I'd have to watch his best match with Psicosis again in AAA b/c last time I watched it in 2009 it was one of my five favourite matches ever), but his WWE run is clearly the top support for his Best Ever case.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've seen WCW/nWo Revenge at multiple second hand stores for what I think were cheap prices. I might get it sometime. Can you play as la Parka? If so, yes, I will get it.
> 
> 
> WWE Rey smokes pre-WWE Rey, if I'm perfectly honest (and I am being teh perfectly honest). He didn't have anything on level with Eddie at Halloween Havoc (and I'd have to watch his best match with Psicosis again in AAA b/c last time I watched it in 2009 it was one of my five favourite matches ever), but his WWE run is clearly the top support for his Best Ever case.


Yup.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm hard.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember playing that at a friend's house back when I was little.

Speaking of N64 games, my best friend has No Mercy in his dorm. That should be some fun to mess around with


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I loved playing Revenge. The roster was huge and being a new wrestling fan at that time was my first wrestling game experience.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

A positive Ultimate Warrior "documentary"

- Vic


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Revenge was really great because it had that combo thing where you could fuck someone up with combos. Shit was ace. 
Oh shit feeling nostalgic now. Time to find this bad boy.



Yeah1993 said:


> I'm hard.


lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Goldberg's spear and his ability to do combos made him virtually unstoppable in that game. I think it was Hogan and/or Piper that had the Flair flop as a finisher. La Parka also came to the ring with a chair. And then Finlay was somehow grouped in the same level as the top WCW guys. Can't forget Jericho's adlib after he does the cocky pin. And then the THQ/AKI MAN. Too many cool things to name regarding that game.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Bash at the Beach 96 is the second greatest opener of all-time. Mysterio and Psychosis generally had tremendous chemistry with each other.
> 
> Love Juventud Guerrera ever since his Juice days when I was a little mark henry1). He was so much fun to play as in WCW/nWo Revenge. One of the best wrestlers ever in WCW. I need to check out some more Fuerza though. Lately been binging on El Mariachi.
> 
> ...


Bash at the Beach 1996 is an event most should watch. It really is quite good and probably the best all around PPV that year with only Starrcade being the competition.

El Mariachi, eh? Seems like he's popular around the California Indie/Lucha circuit. Hmm. How have I not stumbled upon him yet? Interested now.

Yuji still rules today. I don't care what anyone says. I love 'em.

Still got my copy of WCW Revenge. My tag team champions have been the same team that it has been for about six years: Mortis & Masked Juventud Guerrera. They won't lose. Nothing beat my Mysterio vs Ultimo best of seven series sim-league too. That game's CPU base is capable of better matches than a lot of the current ROH Roster.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody you watching smackdown ? young/cesaro was pretty bumping


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Soon. Probably right now, actually. Cesaro vs Young in a singles match, eh? Damn D Young being himself has proven to be the right move. I'm gonna hope for a Cesaro win b/c the man needs it and needs to be the top heel _(or face. I don't really care. Main events please.)_ but Cesaro took & bumped so well off of the Gut Check that I'm almost kind of hoping to see that again. I liked Young back in 2010 when he was post Nexus - credit William Regal for this - and he's clearly improved since then + back to working as a face. Combo vs Cesaro could come off quite swell. It IS Cesaro that we're talking about here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

dont want to spoil the result but I think it was decent for the time it got, dont want to tell you anymore matches on it, watching smackdown for the first time in a while its been an ok show, :lol bully ryback is one of the best character atm unpopular or not


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thanks. I don't know the card for tonight. 

Ryback as a bully. Well, I'm laughing sometimes. Don't know if it is for the right reasons...but I'm laughing. Mostly at the fact that Ryback's downward spiral has been on Miz level epic. Lower and lower and lower. When will this go somewhere?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

El Mariachi is Solar I.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So how much fun was that Henry/Show vs 3MB match huh?

Btw, has anyone else noticed Christian's style of wrestling. He slowly builds things up to basically a finishing sequences of reversals and teasing signature moves. It's a a formula that makes for a fun match anytime.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So it looks like that running knee is Daniel Bryan's new quick finishing move. I didn't think DBry needed a signature finish in the first place (other than the roll up) but if he had to have one, this is absolutely perfect. It fits the Bryan character perfectly and both times he's used it now he's built up to it well.

I really wish I gave two fucks about Barrett, I really do. Is work is almost always solid, and he seems like a genuinely decent guy deep down who works hard. But man, he is just so uninteresting to me. And I can't even think of what he should or could do at this point to change that.

I do have a good question, why in the world is Cesaro not being pushed to he moon? I mean really, he has one of the best looks in all of the WWE, he's the only guy on the main roster who is in Punk's DBry's stratosphere as a worker (Cesaro is probably better than them honestly he just hasn't been put in the situation to wholly show it on the big stage, ala Chris Benoit circa 1995) and he seems to have a lot of supporters in the IWC. If they would just give him a chance to be himself and establish his own character like they did with Punk and Bryan, I feel like he could be a legit main evented within a year, easy. How cool would it be if they made a new "Evolution" eque stable with trips in Flairs role, Orton in Trips old role, and Cesaro and someone else (maybe Barrett? Might actually make him a tad bit interesting. Or Ryback?) in the old Orton and Batista roles. They need to give some of these young guys a legit chance to establish themselves instead of saddling them with a predetermined character and gimmick, telling them what to say, and then when it goes over like a fart in church burying them to undercard hell. It makes zero sense sometimes.

I am very happy where the WWE title scene is heading, I just wish they would work a bit harder on the whole card, because who knows, there might be a main eventer in there somewhere (my bet is Cesaro, easily) just waiting to break through.

And I for one am absolutely sick of the ADR as a champion experiment. 

Okay, rant over.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro is the best worker in the wwe IMO, that question we all wish was answered man, its a shame, really enjoyed barret/bryan cage , pretty fun


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cesaro's a workhorse for sure. The guy has won me over completely. I couldn't stand him at first but I've warmed up to him. I'll be honest though, he's a guy I really don't care to see in the main event scene. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan and all but that doesn't mean I want to see him in the main event picture. There are many guys on the roster I don't care nor do I want to see climbing the ladder of success. And it's not cause I'm a prick or anything, there's just some guys who are so damn good at working the lower card, you know? I mean, you're always going to need lower card guys and if you think about it, a good lowercard is key to a good main event. 

I can see Cesaro as World Champion but I'm not sure if I'm ready for him as WWE champion or main eventing any PPV soon. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Thanks. I don't know the card for tonight.
> 
> Ryback as a bully. Well, I'm laughing sometimes. Don't know if it is for the right reasons...but I'm laughing. Mostly at the fact that Ryback's downward spiral has been on Miz level epic. Lower and lower and lower. When will this go somewhere?


WWE's apparently planning a big push for Ryback soon :vince

I really can't stand the guy though


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I've seen Punk/Lesnar twice and Bryan/Cena thrice. Definite PPV of the year with 2 MOTYC, Bryan/Cena being the better of the two for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

El Mariachi's best match is definitely his 1994 bout with Blue Panther. I definitely need to see some more Panther. Heard that he's among the best luchas ever. Gonna go watch some quality Steven Regal during his mid 90s WCW days. Man carried Larry Zbyszko to the greatest matches of Larry's career. A shame that the Windham/Regal match sucked so much, but that was all Windham's fault and not Regal. Any more mid-90s Regal matches to look out for besides the Zbyszko, Finlay, and Sting matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> El Mariachi is Solar I.


I see. Same lad who worked that one HUSTLE match too. I liked him in that so fun stuff potentially ahead.



PGSucks said:


> WWE's apparently planning a big push for Ryback soon :vince
> 
> I really can't stand the guy though


o rly? I'll see it when it actually manifests itself. I actually like Ryback.



funnyfaces1 said:


> El Mariachi's best match is definitely his 1994 bout with Blue Panther. I definitely need to see some more Panther. Heard that he's among the best luchas ever. Gonna go watch some quality Steven Regal during his mid 90s WCW days. Man carried Larry Zbyszko to the greatest matches of Larry's career. A shame that the Windham/Regal match sucked so much, but that was all Windham's fault and not Regal. Any more mid-90s Regal matches to look out for besides the Zbyszko, Finlay, and Sting matches?


the Psychosis match from 1996. Can vouch for that after reviewing it a few days ago.

vs Ultimo Dragon from Slamboree '97 is a big DUH YES. It's fabulous.

vs Benoit Nitro 4/28/97

vs Savage Nitro 8/5/96

he's worked vs Bobby Eaton a number of times on Saturday Night. No matter how long those went, watchwatchwatch.

vs Eddie Guerrero Nitro 1/8/96 _(same night as that glorious Flair/Arn vs Savage/Hogan tag)_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Already reviewed and loved that Psychosis match. The Ultimo match was so good. Amazing how much the fans loved heel Regal. Gonna go check/rewatch the others. You always tout that Bobby Eaton. What are his best singles matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of them. Ok, while I feel that's fairly legit, I'm feeling three sheets to the wind and not in line to retype my last post about Bobby Eaton matches that I tried to find, but couldn't, so I'll just post his near full career retrospective and let you pick and choose what you feel will be worth your time. As most of it really is. Always dug the singles match vs Arn so there's a quick plug to toss in. 

BOBBY EATON


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just picked up the WM28 DVD from Wal-Mart because I took my friend to run his errands and decided to get a wrestling DVD with The Dark Knight 

I'll definitely have to go and pick up SummerSlam when that comes out on DVD too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've watched the bulk of SummerSlam about three times since Sunday. It's not gonna get old.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I agree completely. I haven't watched a PPV back over so much in a week since MITB 2011 probably


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Same as me. Easily a Top 10 SummerSlam ever imo.

You can't go wrong with the *Extreme Rules 2012 formula*.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Short undercard bouts with the booming main events. It doesn't seem to fail.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Scarily enough, it could've been even better if they hadn't botched 3/4 of the booking of Kane/Wyatt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booking in that one was certainly odd. Kane being dominate isn't a surprise, yet the way they portrayed it was hardly the right way for Wyatt to get his inaugural victory. Nonetheless the match was a spectacle to see live so that's all I really take away from it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not just that, but the cheap and uncreative way Harper and Rowan stopped the fire, and how much Wyatt looked weak, when he should've at least dominated 1/2 of the match by himself.

Still, it was fun for what it was I guess. I'd take it 10x over Punk/Rock I.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched it about three times as it is like I've said, so I'll second that notion. Hardly the worst match I've seen all year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Then Ambrose/RVD was average, Nattie/Brie was also a legit shocker since I expected a DUD pretty much, and I was very entertained by the Mixed Tag. Cody/Sandow delievered as I hoped it would.

And then the triple Main Event, ADR/Christian, Punk/Lesnar and Cena/Bryan. Holy fucking Foley. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've watched Punk/Brock 3 times already lol, I'll watch Bryan/Cena again later, I havnt done that for a PPV in ages, I've still to watch Punk/Taker for a second time.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Christian/Del Rio: ****1/2*
Punk/Lesnar: *****1/4*
Bryan/Cena: *****1/2*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just finished watching Cesaro/Zayn III. Jesus that was incredible. Dat suicide dive. The 5th *****1/2* of 2013 for it imo.

And we're only in August.


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

WWEDVDNews posted this up on their forums, let the speculation begin:


> Unconfirmed rumor: The Raw 20th Anniversary Collection DVD/BD box set will have more than 4 discs and contain “multiple episodes of Raw”.
> Mentioned this to our Twitter followers the other day after hearing it from a pretty good source. However it sounds like details are far from solid yet.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Just finished watching Cesaro/Zayn III. Jesus that was incredible. Dat suicide dive. The 5th *****1/2* of 2013 for it imo.
> 
> And we're only in August.



I rated it the same, I haven't seen all 3 of their matches, just the 2/3 falls and the 3way with Leo Kruger. I liked the 2/3 falls slightly more. It was just outstanding. I cannot wait for Zayn to get a shot on the main roster, he gives one of the best BABYFACE performances I've ever seen. And Hayley says he cuts a pretty good promo too.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Had some free alone time this morning.

*Lord Steven Regal vs. Psychosis 1996/1997*



Spoiler: Matches



*WCW Monday Night Nitro 12/16/1996 - WCW World Television Championship: Lord Steven Regal vs. Psychosis*
This was quite fun, well it’s was gonna be hard not to be when you have Regal beating the shit out of little guys by stretching them 12 different ways. The early part is Regal working the arm, but the mask man uses his quickness to reverse but Regal sticks with it and continues to bend the arm and LEGIT! Looks like he wants to pull it off as we go to a commercial, we are back and forearms in the corner and Regal counters a whip into a roll-up. But Psychosis catches him with this sick arm breaker, Nigel use to do it when he throws your arm and your body into the mat (Regal’s sell job was AMAZING!) A spinning heel kick and a Koppou Kick send Regal to the floor for a plancha! Back in, a flying sunset flip gets a near fall. JESUS! The crowd is fuckin’ hot and the commentary doesn’t give a fuck about this match. Psychosis would hit a t Top rope hurracanrana for 2. A small package gets another two by Psychosis and he would hit this big Gullitone Leg Drop which gets 2. Regal would pull out this desperate German suplex to buy himself some time. But Psychosis comes rushing in with another spinning kick which gets a two, Regal then gains control again by putting a full nelson submission on to keep him grounded but he would break the hold just to put Psychosis n the corner and punches away at his face. Psychosis shoves Regal off a Butterfly Superplex attempt off the top and hits a HUGE flying splash for a near fall. Psychosis gets a bunch of near-falls off cradles, but then takes a faceplant to set up the REGAL STRETCH to give him the submission victory. ***

*WCW Saturday Night 01/11/1997 - WCW World Television Championship: Lord Steven Regal vs. Psychosis*
The match starts off as normal, Regal tries to ground him and out-wrestle him but Psychosis does his best to pick up the pace and fly around the ring. But that doesn’t work as Regal pin-points like 5 different body parts, and gets a couple of close falls. Psychosis does get an early comeback and begin to quicken the pace, which allows Regal to bail and catch his breath but Psychosis continues to be all over Regal unit he tries to do one high flying move to many and misses the dive splash as Regal gets the knees up. He poses a bit and goes for the STF but Psychosis rolls him up for a 2! Regal tries to go back to the fighting but Psychosis traps him in an abdominal stretch. Regal's hurting so he pulls the referee hard head first into Psychosis for the DQ. **3/4

*WCW Saturday Night 01/18/1997 - WCW World Television Championship: Lord Steven Regal vs. Psychosis*
Before the match we get highlights of the DQ finish from the last match, this match is around 3 minutes long and it seems like the more times they wrestle the less time they actually get  Regal goes right to him working the arm picking off where he left off in the previous matches, but Psychosis reverses and Regal reverses right back and kills him with forearms in the corner until Psychosis hits a dropkick and a spinning heel kick off the top. Regal would then put Psychosis on the top but he fights out and nails a moonsault for a 2. Quick roll up gets a 2, and Regal rolls out of the ring to catch his breath. But Psychosis quickly hits a springboard twisting leg drop while Regal is still lying on the floor. Back in, Psychosis goes to the top and leaps off but Regal catches him in mid-air with a dropkick and hits a reverse suplex into the Regal stretch and Psychosis quits right away. **1/2

*WCW Saturday Night 07/05/1997 - WCW World Television Championship: Lord Steven Regal vs. Psychosis*
What a difference 6 months makes, Psychosis now has a manager “Sonny Onoo” with him and they take pictures during the entrances. And apparently Psychosis is now a heel. As for Regal he’s dropped the lord but put on some weight, JESUS! I know he was never the best body but his new attire really does not cover up that gut. OHNO! Must have gotten his advice from Regal 8D As for the match it was 3 and a half minutes, and Regal surprisingly goes to the arm early but Psychosis is too quick and reverses as me get a short mat trade off until Psychosis nails a dropkick which sends Regal out and Sonny kicks away at his chest but Regal no-sells it and goes after him :lmao but the ref gives him a talking to BUT IN ONE SPLIT SECOND SONNY BECOMES MY HERO IN LIFE AS HE TRIES TO PAY OFF THE REF TO SAY HE DIDN’T DO ANYTHING AND LET HIM STAY, I LOVE THIS GUY. He’s still trying to do it as he goes to back, Psychosis places Regal on the top and hits the rana for two, springboard sloppy forearm and he goes to the top again but Regal catches him and kills him with the butterfly suplex but it appears he injured himself so he rolls out grabbing his head. This allows Psychosis to run up the ropes in sloppy Psychosis fashion and connect with a double axe-handle blow to the outside. Back in, and Psychosis kicks and punches away he tries a headscissors takedown but Regal just throws him to the mat and applies the Regal stretch and Psychosis quits right away or the ref just calls for the bell cause I didn’t see him tap. **1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Haven't watched any Pro Wrasslin' in about a week (almost finished work for good, then it's REVIEW SEASON again and I can't wait to get back in here with new ideas and reviews and shit), but I might tackle one of my many 3 disc DVDs for a review this weekend, any suggestions as to what I should try and watch?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have to start compiling every ***1/4+ match we've had in 2013 so far :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

We watched Summerslam last night and liked the 3 big matches more the second time. Excellent PPV and I will for sure buy it when it comes out. 

ADR/Christian :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer 3/4
Brock/Punk :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer 1/2
Bryan/Cena :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer 1/2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

VIVA LA RAZA it is!

Haven't watched any ECW Eddie in a really long fucking time.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> VIVA LA RAZA it is!


Eddie/JBL at Judgement Day 2004 :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/Eddie series needs to be reviewed. Do it, please.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best Guerrero Year?

I mean, I know he had some of the greatest performances ever in 1997, 2005, etc, but his comeback years in 2002 and 2003 were fucking amazing as well. I love his 1995 in ECW/WCW as I felt that his run there was probably the greatest ever besides maybe Tajiri's run, so I'm kind of split on how I feel. I've watched a bunch of his AAA shit w/ Art Barr and I enjoyed that too, when the fuck was Eddie a rookie anyways?!?!?!

Flair/Eddie was a series that I always enjoyed. The Nitro 1995 bout they had blows me away every single fucking time that I witness it. Two of the greatest ever going out there and delivering, imagine that?

EDIT: Guerrero/Malenko from Hostile City Showdown 1995 is fucking AWFUL, boring, dull, and every other meh word you can think of. Just 30 minutes of random holds with no rhyme or reason. Guerrero-Scorpio was actually much, much fucking better than that shitty bout. SHINJIRO match @ Starrcade is up next, surely I'm not the only one who doesn't dig that Eddie-Malenko match though, one of the worst Eddie matches I've ever seen.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Eddie's not only one of my favorite workers of all time, but one of my top 5 favorite wrestlers ever. It's a damn shame we never got the speculated Eddie vs. HBK match at WrestleMania 22. Pair that with Angle vs. Taker (assuming they had a match about as good as their NWO 06 bout), and WM22 would be :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> It's a damn shame we never got the speculated Eddie vs. HBK match at WrestleMania 22. Pair that with Angle vs. Taker (assuming they had a match about as good as their NWO 06 bout), and WM22 would be :mark:


This!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WM22 with Eddie/HBK and Taker/*Benoit* would have been incredible. Sucks that Taker instead got Mizark in a mediocre casket match while Benoit was wasted in an undercard match with JBL.

Best year for Eddie? Don't know about his pre-WWE stuff but from 2002-2005, he was extremely consistent and incredible. Him, Rey and Benoit are truly the elite three when it comes to consistent workers in the last decade.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Taker/Benoit would've been awesome as well, but I feel that Taker would've rather picked Angle as an opponent because he was a bigger name. I do agree that Benoit got wasted in a U.S. title match though. Why the hell wasn't he in MITB? He was one of the best parts of the first one :side:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> WM22 with Eddie/HBK and Taker/*Benoit* would have been incredible. Sucks that Taker instead got Mizark in a mediocre casket match while Benoit was wasted in an undercard match with JBL.
> 
> Best year for Eddie? Don't know about his pre-WWE stuff but from 2002-2005, he was extremely consistent and incredible. Him, Rey and Benoit are truly the elite three when it comes to consistent workers in the last decade.




Id say Taker/Angle was more missed for WM 22. Benoit/Taker would have made no sense to be honest.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

But he had already worked with Angle enough times including the very last PPV before WM so it would have been much fresher to face Benoit. And Angle was also in a World Title match so it's not like he was a complete afterthought who was thrown on the card because of how big a name he was like they did with Benoit in 22 and 23. (for the Road to 23, he missed most Smackdowns from February and March. His feud with MVP only featured one short segment between them)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Eddie/Rey/Benoit are the BIG THREE when it comes to WWE workers in the 2000s for me, with Rey probably being on top of that due to longevity and consistency in all honesty. Then you have Brock who had like two bad matches in his entire career and The Undertaker, who is probably the best main event worker the company has ever had. There's your big guns for this 2000's era, even if Brock has like two full years under his belt and Eddie has less than five when it comes to full years worked. So if I'm talking about the best WWE workers of the 2000s, here's what I'm saying at the end of the day;

- Rey Mysterio
- Eddie Guerrero
- Chris Benoit
- Brock Lesnar
- The Undertaker

In any order from match to match honestly.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> But he had already worked with Angle enough times including the very last PPV before WM so it would have been much fresher to face Benoit. And Angle was also in a World Title match so it's not like he was a complete afterthought who was thrown on the card because of how big a name he was like they did with Benoit in 22 and 23. (for the Road to 23, he missed most Smackdowns from February and March. His feud with MVP only featured one short segment between them)


Just to clear things up, when I was talking about Eddie/HBK and Angle/Taker possibly happening, I wouldn't have had Angle turning face and facing Taker at No Way Out. I think WWE put that match on a month early so they could have Rey win the title after Eddie's passing.

I do wish Benoit would've been in bigger matches at Mania 22 and 23, however.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

For real how can you have a guy who main evented and WON in the main event of the 20th anniversary of the superbowl of wrestling go back to midcarding the next few years? Very poor booking.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well the answer of that is quite simple; I don't think Vince EVER saw Benoit as more than somebody he could build up for the sole reason of becoming an enhancement talent late in his career. The Wrestlemania XX win I think was just a reward for Benoit's many many years of hard work, probably the greatest triumphing moment in wrestling history, next to Eddie's win over Brock a month prior which I thought could have been made even sweeter if done at XX.

I thought the company always viewed Eddie as a bigger star than Benoit though, which really shows as Eddie was still main eventing at the time of his death in 2005 while Benoit was working programs with Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> Eddie/Rey/Benoit are the BIG THREE when it comes to WWE workers in the 2000s for me, with Rey probably being on top of that due to longevity and consistency in all honesty. Then you have Brock who had like two bad matches in his entire career and The Undertaker, who is probably the best main event worker the company has ever had. There's your big guns for this 2000's era, even if Brock has like two full years under his belt and Eddie has less than five when it comes to full years worked. So if I'm talking about the best WWE workers of the 2000s, here's what I'm saying at the end of the day;
> 
> - Rey Mysterio
> - Eddie Guerrero
> ...


Sounds about right. Then there's other names like Shawn Michaels, John Cena, Randy Orton and Triple H who have an incredible catalog of matches, just less consistent than the five you named.



PGSucks said:


> Just to clear things up, when I was talking about Eddie/HBK and Angle/Taker possibly happening, I wouldn't have had Angle turning face and facing Taker at No Way Out. I think WWE put that match on a month early so they could have Rey win the title after Eddie's passing.
> 
> I do wish Benoit would've been in bigger matches at Mania 22 and 23, however.


So you would've had Angle/Taker as an interpromotional match similar to Orton/Taker the year before? Angle's face turn only happened because crowd kept cheering him and he didn't fit into the WWE Championship scene so they moved him to Smackdown again.

I would've kept the Smackdown stuff the way they happened but instead of starting Benoit/JBL due to a fucking dropkick on the steel steps and have Henry constantly interfering in Taker's matches, I'd have Booker lose to Benoit by DQ at No Way Out because JBL attacked Booker. So Booker turns face and faces JBL for the US title at WM.

Benoit would then move on and challenge Undertaker a week or two after for a Wrestlemania match, say that he respects Taker and his streak but he's never faced anyone like Benoit in any of his WM matches so he should accept the challenge unless he's afraid of tapping out. Taker accepts and they keep it face vs face similar to the Angle feud. They bump into each other accidentally during tag matches and such which causes tension to build and Benoit constantly tries to lock in the Crossface but never gets it quite locked in. At WM, they get a long 20 minute match and then while Taker goes for the Last Ride, Benoit counters it into a Crossface in the middle of the ring. Taker obviously gets out and wins with a Tombstone but it'll be an incredible match and that would be a great nearfall.

But the best thing would've been the scenario KOK posted a while back. Taker becomes the World Champion and Benoit wins the Royal Rumble so they face off at WM for the title.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> So you would've had Angle/Taker as an interpromotional match similar to Orton/Taker the year before? Angle's face turn only happened because crowd kept cheering him and he didn't fit into the WWE Championship scene so they moved him to Smackdown again.


Didn't Angle turn face because Shawn didn't want to jump over to SmackDown and win the world title? I remember reading that somewhere.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed. What they SHOULD HAVE done actually is not move Angle from RAW to Smackdown in vein of Batista's injury, but rather have Benoit win the battle Royal for the title in 2006. Then you could have him involved in both US and WHC feuds until losing the US belt to Orton/Booker while having Benoit/Taker at NWO 2006 and Benoit/Mysterio at Wrestlemania XXII or vice versa.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That could be true because Shawn always turned down offers of being a World/WWE Champion after the last run he got in 2002. He also denied the Eddie/HBK rumors on twitter, so I don't know what it really was.

Angle was definitely not fitting in the WWE Title scene because Edge with the briefcase was waiting around while HHH and Cena were kept away far away from each other since it was planned for WM from the get go.

Benoit/Mysterio would have been incredible at WM22. They only faced off once and it could've been a great torch-passer with Benoit laying down for his close friend and putting him over there with a post-match hug to recapture WM20 slightly different.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think they could have either done THAT, or they could have had HHH jump ship to do HHH/Mysterio for the world title, and Benoit/Taker for the Streak. HHH/Cena is one of my favorite matches of all time at XXII, but imagine the moment when Mysterio unseats HHH for the world title in the last match on the show? Then you could also have Cena chase Edge for the belt until he finally gets his comeuppance at XXII also... Everything actually MAKES FUCKING SENSE.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Shame, I can't chime in on this whole Benoit, Angle, Taker, HBK WM 22 discussion thingy. The build for Mania 22 was when I just started to get back into wrestling. Plus, I was 11 what the hell did I know?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was actually the same age 

Mysterio having his moment by beating HHH and Cena actually chasing the title from a red-hot Edge would've been an awesome double main event.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The card (I still love it) was a victim of WWE's tendencies to book things too far in advance to a point where if it no longer makes any sense, they'll still force the card they want anyways, ala the main event to Wrestlemania XXIX. They wanted HHH-Cena, even though it made absolutely no sense at the time, and the idea of Edge-Cena at that show would have been hot as fuck. Then to stick Mysterio, Angle, & Orton in a triple threat was also a whole bunch of fucking nonsense. I love Mark, but he wasn't established enough at the time in 2006 and shouldn't have challenged for the streak while guys like Benoit were in lesser matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Beast Incarnate said:


> I think they could have either done THAT, or they could have had HHH jump ship to do HHH/Mysterio for the world title, and Benoit/Taker for the Streak. HHH/Cena is one of my favorite matches of all time at XXII, but imagine the moment when Mysterio unseats HHH for the world title in the last match on the show? Then you could also have Cena chase Edge for the belt until he finally gets his comeuppance at XXII also... Everything actually MAKES FUCKING SENSE.


That's about perfect. They could also have Orton vs Angle like they had planned in a singles match and still have that awesome Orton/Rey match for the title on Smackdown.

It's amazing how much better the show could have been and even with all the superior alternatives, they still gave us a decent show. But if only they had done some of this fantasy booking instead... could've been the greatest PPV in WWE history, or at least in the top 5.

Rey vs HHH
Cena vs Edge
Benoit vs Taker
Angle vs Orton

Then remove some unnecessary shit like the pillow fight and Boogeyman. It just can't go wrong here.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

As much as I LOVE Angle and Orton as workers, I never felt that they had great chemistry against one another.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Dat Smackdown match doeeeeeeeeeeee.

:angle2


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Didn't Angle turn face because Shawn didn't want to jump over to SmackDown and win the world title? I remember reading that somewhere.


Yeah. He didn't want to move to Smackdown because of his Bible studies being on Tuesdays I believe. 

I wished he would have went to Smackdown in 2004 though. Smackdown desperately needed another elite worker at the time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think your post of Bork Laser being Mr. SummerSlam might be accurate, KOK.

vs Rock - ****1/2
vs Angle - ****1/2
vs Punk - ****1/2

Is there anyone else in history who's had legit ****1/2+ matches in the ALL SummerSlams he's competed in?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

VS HHH TOO.

The best of the bunch as far as I'm concerned. Brock's stomach injury selling = <3.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lesnar is definitely a top contender for Mr. SummerSlam. Need to rewatch the HHH match but with the other three, it goes ★★★★¼-½ for all of them. Lesnar at SummerSlam is a 180 of Lesnar at Wrestlemania. His matches there are 66% mediocre/bad and 33% decent. SummerSlam, he is 75% excellence and 25% good. I actually wanna use a percentage for statistics like this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Using PERCENTAGES, Brock & Volk Han would probably be the two greatest workers ever .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did anyone grab the Cena/Punk Raw (Feb 2013) match when WWE put it up on Youtube, the one without the commercials?

Would appreciate an upload plz.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> I think your post of Bork Laser being Mr. SummerSlam might be accurate, KOK.
> 
> vs Rock - ****1/2
> vs Angle - ****1/2
> ...


Legit Beast. 

All great matches.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Finding all this really funny because WrestleMania 22 would UNDOUBTEDLY have become one of, if not, the greatest WrestleMania of all time had it gone according to plan. Card was looking off the charts. Been searching up what the original card had been and I saw it consisting of:

* Cena vs. Triple H for the WWE Championship. (happened)
* Batista vs. Orton for the World Championship.
* Undertaker vs. Angle.
* Michaels vs. Eddie. Raw vs. SmackDown.
* Edge vs. Foley. Hardcore Match. (happened)
* Bret vs. Vince. No Holds Barred.

Just imagine that card taking place. WrestleMania 22 was nice but it could have been so, so, so much better if it all went according to plan. I'd go as far as saying it would have been a top three PPV of all time. Unfortunately, Batista got injured, Undertaker vs. Angle happened at No Way Out instead, Eddie passed away, Bret refused to wrestle. Even heard rumors about Austin vs. Hogan in what would have been the biggest and most iconic match in the history of history.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why is 2012 so forgettable to me as of lately? I forgot about the Trips match 

***3/4 to that one. Bork's still THE BEAST then.

Not sure which I prefer between the Punk or Angle match though?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Why is 2012 so forgettable to me as of lately? I forgot about the Trips match
> 
> ***3/4 to that one. Bork's still THE BEAST then.
> 
> Not sure which I prefer between the Punk or Angle match though?


Can't blame you one bit.

I prefer the Angle match although Brock/Punk was great on its own.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/brock is way better

Gonna rewatch it for the 2nd time after i get home from this fancy dinner, but if it holds up, it may be in my top 20 wwe matches all time


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The full 5 for Brock/Angle at Mania huh? Don't think I have heard that from anyone but I do like that match a lot. I prefer their Summerslam match and Iron Man match though. Fantastic heel performance from Brock in the Iron Man. 

Angle is fucking wonderful though and I don't see why he gets so much shit. Oh well. To each his/her own.

Bret Hart is Mr. Summerslam and it's not even close really....

Hart Foundation v Arn & Tully
Hart Foundation v Demolition (twice but the 1990 match was underrated)
Bret v Perfect for the IC title
Bret v Davey for the IC title
Bret v Owen in a cage match for the winged eagle
Bret v Kane when Kane was in Dentist school 
Bret v Taker for the winged eagle


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> The full 5 for Brock/Angle at Mania huh? Don't think I have heard that from anyone but I do like that match a lot.


should check out the 5* thread in other wrestling. feels like every other person has that match at 5*.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock/Angle at Mania? Watched that the other week in my Brock project, think i rated it ****. Considering the state Angle was in, it was a damn fine match, but not as good as it maybe could have been. But thank fuck we also got SS and SD matches too.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brock-Angle I is just like Brock-Angle IV in Japan...

Not Good.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I haven't even re watched the 3 big matches from SummerSlam, still just going on what i saw live.



> Brock-Angle I is just like Brock-Angle IV in Japan...


WrestleMania 19?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Best Guerrero Year?


I'll go with 97. Unreal Rey classic, bunch of other good/very good Rey matches, lead Jericho to probably Jericho's best match ever, borderline carried Malenko to three or five of his best matches, the incredible EddieJericho v. Faces of Fear tag, the also awesome Eddie/Jarrett v. Benoit/Mongo tags, the mind-blowing five minute Benoit match, and probably other stuff. I thought the Syxx ladder match was totally awful and that other Jericho match is boring, but Eddie's a WOTYC in 1997 and 1997 has some motherfucking all time greats as WOTYCs.



Someone brought up top WWE workers of the 2000s which made me go 'huh what woud mine be'. Here I think be it it is here I THINK (tried for a top 10. I didn't really make it):

Finlay
Rey Mysterio
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoit
Matt Hardy
The Undertaker


I had Regal there but am not really remembering a lot of his decade. I had Cena there, too, but....IDK, other than 2007 I'm not really sure. His stuff needs a watch and re-watch badly. I'm positive he'd be top 10, but I want to be thorough about this random list I made b/c someone may or may not have commented on the subject initially. I feel like Christian deserves it for 2009 alone, same with Austin for 2001. I think I could make the case for Henry, but don't want to babble about him too much. :woolcock (I didn't know which emoticon to put here so I chose this one since it's the best emoticon since the discovery of the markout smiley in 2009 or so). He did have really great 2006 and 2008 runs, with a super 2003 right there, and I have to get on his 2009, so I think he is at least arguable. Orton, the Big Show, Lesnar, the Rock and Jericho feel like contenders to at east some degree. I think your guys like Jamie Noble, had they been given a truly fair shake, would have a serious shot, but are left underneath. Whothafuckesle is there?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching the Mania 28 DVD I got yesterday and my God, the first hour was a train wreck. Hindsight's 20/20, which is the reason I don't really care about 18 seconds anymore. But why the hell did the Diva's tag match get a video package? fpalm 

I'm just looking forward to the triple main event


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Brock/Angle at Mania? Watched that the other week in my Brock project, think i rated it ****. Considering the state Angle was in, it was a damn fine match, but not as good as it maybe could have been. But thank fuck we also got SS and SD matches too.



I rated it the same, terrific match especially considering the circumstances, but 5 stars for THAT? Please, it wasn't even the best match at that event, Hbk and Jericho stole the show with their brilliant student vs teacher storyline and tremendous match. If someone wanted to give that match 5 stars, I could see that. Hell, I thought Rocky vs Austin was better than Angle vs Lesnar too. The Angle vs Lesnar match at SS was twice as good as their Mania bout, and I wouldn't give that match over ****1/2 myself. People have odd opinions sometimes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Best worker of the 2000s

1. Rey Mysterio
2. Chris Jericho
3. The Undertaker
4. HBK
5. Eddie Guerrero
6. Chris Benoit
7. Finlay
8. Edge
9. Triple H
10. Kurt Angle

Just my opinion, and other than Rey at #1 and Jericho at #2, I'm not certain of the order at all. I'd have to watch every one of their matches and I obviously don't have time for that.

On another note, what's everyone here's opinion on Chris Hero aka Kassius Ohno from NXT?


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Watched old RAW matches tonight.

Dolph Ziggler vs CM Punk from night after SVS was good, but nothing more. I remembered it as a great back and forth match that made me realize how good Ziggler is, but clearly it didn't hold up. The botched finish hurt it a little too.

Mark Henry vs CM Punk 12/4/2. Awesome match with great atmosphere. This was a great showcase of why Henry is so good. Had some nice trash talk to Punk and I loved how he always cut Punk's comebacks.

John Cena vs Rey Mysterio, holy hell what a match this was. Probably TV MOTY. Rey from 2009-2011 had an amazing run. STF FROM MYSTERIO :mark: Great, great match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> should check out the 5* thread in other wrestling. feels like every other person has that match at 5*.


Nice. I didn't know that. Again I enjoyed that match but prefer Summerslam and Smackdown Iron Man. Great chemistry those two had together.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cena/Rey should have taken place at Summerslam. Just my 2 cents. That match was fantastic. 

Call me crazy but I enjoyed WM 28. I think Punk/Jericho and Taker/Trips were great and I actually enjoyed Rock/Cena. I thought Kane/Orton was alright and Show/Cody was ok. Yes the divas tag was garbage. Those 3 big matches delivered though IMHO.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Call me crazy but I enjoyed WM 28. I think Punk/Jericho and Taker/Trips were great and I actually enjoyed Rock/Cena. I thought Kane/Orton was alright and Show/Cody was ok. Yes the divas tag was garbage. Those 3 big matches delivered though IMHO.


 That's a popular opinion on here (at least from the well known posters that post in this thread). I don't mind the Divas tag match that much because every PPV needs a match where you want to take a break . 

I just Brian Pillman's last match in his career against the Patriot in a Shotgun Saturday taping. A short average match that ends in DQ when Goldust interferes and attacks Pillman. Such a shame that Pillman died during this storyline and in the same day as the Bad Blood PPV. I know we got a similar storyline with Kane and X-Pac feuding over Tori in 1999 but Pillman was a much better heel than X-Pac ever was (IMO). Watching those Pillman XXX files segments just made you hate him more instantly. One of the best things about WWF 1997 is that the theme songs really fit the characters. Pillman, Sid, Mankind, Undertaker, Stone Cold and later Kane all had entrance songs that matched their characters well.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Pillman was awesome. He would have been awesome in the heart of the attitude era. He was a fave of mine growing up for sure and the Hollywood Blondes are a fantastically underrated tag team.

I say it a lot but 1997 was by far my favorite year ever in wrestling.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Pillman was awesome. He would have been awesome in the heart of the attitude era. He was a fave of mine growing up for sure and the Hollywood Blondes are a fantastically underrated tag team.


Pillman's "loose cannon" character was attitude era before that term was popularized. I mean he pulled a freaking gun on stone cold, haha. USA threatened to kick WWE off the air after that little incident. He was a fantastic worker and an ever better character guy. His car wreck did leave him a bit hobbled compared to how good he was in his prime, but he still more than delivered when the time called for it.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Only thing that sucked about his booking is the whole "you have to wear a dress untill you win a match" stipulation that they had booked for him in August 1997. It was a good thing that he got revenge on Goldust but he could have been used much better before that. And 1997 is an Attitude Era year, IMHO. Things started to change after Mania with the all edgyness, angles(USA vs Canada angle, Bearer being burnt in the face and etc.) and theme song change. I think this was the year were Russo's swerves started to happen. An example of a swerve was when Ahmed Johnson joined the Nation of Domination and then gets kicked out like a month later. What makes Brian Pillman's life even sadder is that apprantly Heyman refused to have Pillman work a match in late 1997 because he told the ECW workers "he won't be alive by then". I read that in an interesting article here http://www.wrestlingforum.com/class...-brian-pillman-long-interesting-sad-read.html

I'd recommend people to read it if they're interested.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah late 96, early 97 was the birth of the AE. It just was not given a name yet.

I'm old enough to remember Pillman when he broke in with the Cincy Bengal tights. His matches with Liger were fantastic. So much energy and watching him evolve over the years to the tag team with Austin and with the Hart Foundation he was a great character. Really belongs in the HOF I think.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Not a fan of late 1996 from what I have seen. Shows were an hour long and mostly filler. I remember Bart Gunn and Billy Gunn closed a RAW show in late 1996. I'm not too familiar with Pillman's WCW work but I have read that his car accident damaged his career heavily. He wasn't the same worker afterwards. There is an interview on youtube where he says the injury will only be a minor blip on the radar when people look at his career in 5 years time but sadly, he never had a chance to be a star in the WWF/E.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Survivor Series 1996 was a damn good PPV. Tv was hit or miss. I like Bret/Austin at SS96 as much as any of their other matches. Yes even WM13.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't know if I'd go as far as to say Bret/Austin Survivor Series is better than Mania but it might be a push. Both are wonderful. It was obvious after that SS match that Steve was gonna be a main eventer. 

Agreed Taker/Mankind at Survivor Series was great. Shame they never wrestled at Mania. 

I think HBK actually got a decent match out of Sid at SS96 as well.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just wanna add to the discussion a couple pages back. Imo, WM 22 is one of the best. Cena/HHH turned out to be good, and besides we got the awesomeness that was Edge/Foley. Seems like a win-win for everybody.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Cena/Rey should have taken place at Summerslam. Just my 2 cents. That match was fantastic.
> 
> Call me crazy but I enjoyed WM 28. I think Punk/Jericho and Taker/Trips were great and I actually enjoyed Rock/Cena. I thought Kane/Orton was alright and Show/Cody was ok. Yes the divas tag was garbage. Those 3 big matches delivered though IMHO.


Agreed. 

It was a really good Mania. Better than this years to me. Also, as previously said in here, the post Mania RAW was all sorts of awesome. Really fun two days last year.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

On the subject of Pillman I've been watching the War Games DVD and his performance at Wreslte War 91 was nothing short of amazing. He played the perfect underdog he stole the show. I believe a few years ago I made a post where I said that the match wasn't that special. I feel like an idiot thinking about that statement because the match was really something special. It told a fantastic story and was everything that a War Games match is supposed to be. I haven't finished the set yet but I don't see how anything is going to top it.

I also get really annoyed when I see people say that Wrestlemania 28 wasn't good. Triple H/Undertaker was incredible (I get chills when I see the SCM/Pedigree Combo and kickout), Punk/Jericho had a fantastic match, and Cena/Rock was one of those matches that wouldn't be anything special but ended up being special because of who was in the match and where it was taking place.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cena/henry mitb ****1/4
punk/brock ****1/4+

- Ok I will take the former to the grave. This match is incredable and i stil ldont understand why it doesnt get more loving. HEEL/MONSTER henry at its finest, and Cena doing his bread and butter. The psychology is off the charts

- Ok This is my second watch of brock/punk and I kinda came back to earth on it ( I honestly thought it was ****3/4-***** material after first watch). Still a VERY VERY good match but it has to main flaws 1) could of cut 10 mins and didnt need all the false finishes/counters 2) it had a slow point in the middle although it was Brock's control segment so its ok

I have to say I think cena/bryan was a tad better just because honestly Ive watched it 3 times and its just keeps getting better


----------



## HWRP (Mar 16, 2012)

Top 10 matches of the PG era list anyone?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> cena/henry mitb ****1/4
> punk/brock ****1/4+
> 
> - Ok I will take the former to the grave. This match is incredable and i stil ldont understand why it doesnt get more loving. HEEL/MONSTER henry at its finest, and Cena doing his bread and butter. The psychology is off the charts
> ...



Henry/Cena is the modern day Hulk Hogan match. Except now I find myself desperately rooting against Hogan.

After seeing Cena/Henry and Cena/Bryan all I want is to see Heel Henry vs. Face Bryan again at some point. They had good matches on SD a couple of years ago but both guys are better and more over now. I'm not sure if there's a better pure David vs. Goliath match that WWE can come up with.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TaylorFitz said:


> On the subject of Pillman I've been watching the War Games DVD and his performance at Wreslte War 92 was nothing short of amazing. He played the perfect underdog he stole the show. I believe a few years ago I made a post where I said that the match wasn't that special. I feel like an idiot thinking about that statement because the match was really something special. It told a fantastic story and was everything that a War Games match is supposed to be. I haven't finished the set yet but I don't see how anything is going to top it.
> 
> I also get really annoyed when I see people say that Wrestlemania 28 wasn't good. Triple H/Undertaker was incredible (I get chills when I see the SCM/Pedigree Combo and kickout), Punk/Jericho had a fantastic match, and Cena/Rock was one of those matches that wouldn't be anything special but ended up being special because of who was in the match and where it was taking place.


While I always felt that War Games 91/92 were overrated, I was very impressed by Pillman's showing in 91. Man got killed by Sid in a great ending to a great (but not five-star) match. My only issue with Pillman in that match was his poor selling of his injury early in the match.

Wrestlemania 28 is a damn good Mania. Three real good matches on one card and two decent midcard matches is good enough for me.

Top Ten PG Matches:

1. Punk/Cena MITB 2011
2. Undertaker/HBK WM 25
3. Undertaker/HBK WM 26
4. Punk/Lesnar SS 13
5. Jericho/HBK NM 08
6. Punk/Bryan OTL 12
7. Shield/Bryan-Kane-Ryback TLC 12
8. Undertaker/HHH WM 28
9. Undertaker/Punk WM 29
10. Cena/Lesnar or Bryan/Sheamus ER 12


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Since Night of Champions is coming up, I checked out the event from last year. First hour or so was pretty slow, but it certainly picked. This was when JBL has first come back after King's heart attack, and he was making Cole his bitch all night. It actually made a bit of difference, I thought. Anyways, some snowflakes:

Miz (c) vs Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes vs Sin Cara **3/4
Team HellNo vs Kofi/R-Truth **1/2
Antonio Cesaro (c) vs Zach Ryder **3/4
Dolph Ziggler vs Randy Orton ***1/2
Layla (c) vs Eve *1/2
Sheamus (c) vs Alberto Del Rio ***3/4
CM Punk vs John Cena ****1/4




HWRP said:


> Top 10 matches of the PG era list anyone?


Off the top of my head:

HBK/Taker - WM 25
HBK/Taker - WM 26
Punk/Brock - Summerslam 2013
Punk/Cena - MITB 2011
Trips/Taker - WM 28
Punk/Jericho - WM 28
Brock/Cena - Extreme Rules 2012
Punk/Bryan - Over the Limit 2012
Punk/Taker - WM 29

That's just 9, but I may have missed a few. My personal favorites of this era.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wargames '91 & '92 are perfect matches for me. Captured exactly what those matches are about. Absolute WAR.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Shield TLC match is missing. Better than some being listed.


----------



## shawnmichaelsisgod (Apr 19, 2011)

HWRP said:


> Top 10 matches of the PG era list anyone?


I couldn't come up with a definitive top 10 at the moment, but I could knock off maybe 15 matches off the top of my head: 

HBK/Taker Wm 25
HBK/Taker Wm 26
Cena/Punk Mitb 11
Orton/Christian OTL 11
Cena/Brock ER 12
Shield/Bryan Kane Ryback TLC 12
Punk/Bryan OTL 12
Punk/Lesnar SS 13 
Bryan/Cena SS 13
Taker/Punk Wm 29
Bryan/Sheamus ER 12
Punk/Jericho Wm 28
HHH/Taker Wm 28
Jericho/Mysterio Bash 09
Cena/Punk Raw 13


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'll try a top 10 although there have been way too many to remember.

HBK/Taker WM25
Cena/Lesnar ER 12
Christian/Orton OTL 11
Punk/Cena MITB 11
Punk/Lesnar SS 13
Orton/Christian SS 11
Taker/HHH WM28
Kane, Bryan & Ryback/Shield TLC 12
Bryan/Sheamus ER 12
Bryan/Cena SS 13


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't believe I forgot Orton/Christian OTL 11. I think I might even like it more than Cena/Lesnar ER 12. Yup, it deserves a spot. Christian/Swagger also deserves mention.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Top 12 of the PG Era (IMO)

1. HBK vs Taker WM25 *****
2. HBK vs Taker WM 26 *****
3. Cena vs Punk MitB 11 *****
4. Shield vs Hell No Ryback TLC *****
5. Punk vs Lesnar SS13 ****1/2
6. Bryan vs Cena SS13 ****1/2
7. Punk vs Taker WM29 ****1/2
8. Punk vs Bryan OTL12 ****1/2
9. Cena vs Lesnar ER12 ****1/2
10. Sheamus vs Bryan ER12 ****1/2
11. Punk vs Cena Raw2013 ****1/2
12. Punk vs Jericho WM28 ****1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HBK/Taker Wm 25
HBK/Taker Wm 26
Cena/Punk Mitb 11
Orton/Christian OTL 11
Cena/Brock ER 12
Shield/Bryan Kane Ryback TLC 12
Punk/Bryan OTL 12
Punk/Lesnar SS 13 
Bryan/Cena SS 13
HHH/Taker Wm 28


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

When is the start of the PG era? I always thought 2008 but no one has listed any matches from 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy in the Steel Cage > so many matches to happen in the last five years. That's as far as my ranking will go.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

^^ 2008 was beginning of PG.

2006-2008 was just random era (since Ruthless Agression ended 2006).


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

DOPESICK REVIEWS RAW IS WAR

September 22nd 1997 - Madison Square Garden
​
WE ARE LIIIIIIIIIIIIVE FROM MSG YEEEEEEEEAH.

IC TITLE TOURNEY: ROCKY MIAVIA VS. AHMED JOHNSON
This is in the tournament to crown a new IC champion due to Steve Austin's injury at Summerslam. Rock has just joined the Nation Of Domination and is bombarded with ROCKY SUCKS chants. Bit of a nothing match because Rock is still pretty green around the gills and Ahemd is severely washed up at this point. Ahmed wins with the Pearl River Plunger to advance. 
1/2*

Still to come...Owen Hart vs. Pillman! Goldust vs. Bret Hart! Dude Love vs. HHH in Falls Count Anywhere!

Recaps of HBK vs. Bulldog from the One Night (or 'Nite') Only PPV where Michaels acts like a cheating bastard and almost encites a riot to win the European title.

Interview with THE UNDERTAKERRRRR with Vinnie Mac. Undertaker mentions souls, darkness and evil, until Michaels shows up and moans about how everybody is against him, blah blah. And that's it...this is a set up for their HIAC match at Bad Blood which would be AWESOME.

Sunny is here! Fresh from a coke session no doubt. She's a ring announcer which is what she only seemed to do at this time. It's time for...

LEGION OF DOOM vs. FAAROOQ AND KAMA MUSTAFA
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT A RUUUUUUUUUUUUSHHHH. Cringeworthy shot of LOD doing a weather forecast spot on Fox News. Match goes nowhere until Nation members D-Lo Brown and Rock interfere to cause a DQ. No Ken Shamrock (he's gonna team with LOD at Bad Blood) as he's injured so Ahmed Johnson waddles down but the babyfaces get beat down. Ahmed has an injured hand. Too much wanking, calm down.
*

OWEN HART vs. BRIAN PILLMAN (with Marlena)
Owen has the police with him because of Austin, and Pillman has Marlena because of his feud with Goldust (look it up). Of course they're team mates so they can't possibly fight. Memorable Pillman quote: "While Dustin was reading Dakota the three little pigs...I had Marlena squealing like a pig!" Pillman has a cast. Commissioner Slaughter turns up and tricks Pillman into catching a mic, so he's going to wrassle, rendering his 'injury' useless. After some trickery, Pillman and Owen actually fight. Match is standard, until Goldust appears and runs Pillman out of town. 'C'MON MOTHERFUCKER! - Goldust

Then STEVE AUSTIN appears to attack Owen Hart, but because of the restraining order, is held back by the cops. VINCE MCMAHON gets out of commentary to talk sense into Austin, but gets STUNNED INTO OBLIVION in a HISTORIC Raw moment.

FUCKING. EXCELLENT. TELEVISION.

Austin gets arrested and the crowd is going NUTS.

DUDE LOVE vs. HUNTER HEARST HELMSLEY (with CHYNA) FALLS COUNT ANYWHERE
Before the match there is an awesome Titantron segment where Dude Love says he can't compete in the match because he's a lover, so he passes the baton to Mankind, but then of course, Mankind passes that onto CACTUS FUCKING JACK. So...

CACTUS JACK vs. HUNTER HEARST HELMSLEY (with Chyna)
YES! CACTUS JACK IN WWF FOR FIRST TIME EVERRRR. Match goes everywhere with garbage cans and mops. Chyna interferes but gets knocked out towards the end. Cactus wins with a piledriver through a table near the entrance. AWESOME match.
***1/2

HBK comes out for another segment. He says he's the best blah blah blah. HBK was such an awesome heel in this era because...well...he was a genuine asshole. 'Shawn is gay? why don't you ask your momma if Shawn is gay?' Undertaker is challenged and he comes out but is attacked by HBK, HHH, Chyna and Rick Rude. Chairshots ahoy!

GOLDUST vs. BRET HART
Goldust is moody because of...well...Marlena etc. Bret Hart gets the upper hand and makes Goldust tap out to the sharpshooter. HBK attacks Bret Hart which results in a mass onslaught. HBK, HHH, Rude and Chyna attack Bret, Owen, Neidhart and Bulldog until...UNDERTAKER appears to a AMSSIVE pop and double chokeslams HBK and Bret Hart ALLL THE WAY TO HEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLL. AWESOME ENDING!!!

BRILLIANT episode of Raw. In TWO HOURS. Fuck three hours. THIS is how Raw should be.

TUNE IN AGAIN for another review soon!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I swear I'm the only person in the universe who doesn't even care that RAW is three hours weekly. Going back and watching RAWs from 2012 that were two hours and they really couldn't fit much of the roster on the show. Or that's a sign of how mismanaged things were. Don't know & quite frankly don't care. More wrestling per week is something I'd hardly going to complain about. Plus, when you have the nights where _(and they are more frequent than infrequent)_ lads like Danielson or The Shield can get nearly thirty minutes all to themselves, yeah, it only drives home the fact that I have no gripes with RAW being three hours. All the tapings always were back in the day. Nowadays you just have the entire event shown on TV.

Anyways, review was both hilarious and swell. Debated jumping onto that RAW soon myself - b/c I'm going through '96 & '97 WWF atm. Just saying. - and checking out all of the other goodies that never get shown pardon the Austin stunner & Jack vs Helmsley TV MOTY. Hart vs Goldust happens. Joy if that manages to get a good bit of time.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Watch it man, you won't be disappointed. So many good moments.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My PPV viewing is haphazard, but the raws are trying to be contained. Watching one out of order won't be a problem. I'll get on it in a few. (Y)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hardy/punk cage is still glorious shits all over their sd 09 match which I use to think was a ***** :lol young redskins

Am I the only one that doesn't think mankind/hhh fca 97 is that good, need to rewatch


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hardly have any WWF matches in '97 that I could say I prefer over Cactus vs Helmsley.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Am I the only one that doesn't think mankind/hhh fca 97 is that good, need to rewatch


It's no 'classic' but it's maybe because I'm a colossal Foley fan boy, and together with the MSG crowd and the storyline attached to it (plus the resulting finish) made for ultimately satisfying television. 

Fuck, HHH owes SO MUCH to Foley for building his career.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again: Mick Foley made Triple H. No opponent was better suited for him than Foley. All of their matches; terrific. There's a reason for that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've never understood this thing where a span of years needs to be labelled as an 'era'. The Attitude Era was called the Attitude "Era"...that's about it. Why is everything else labelled an 'era'? I mean by dictionary meaning an era kind of IS some sort of period of time that would fit what people are talking about, but the words to describe them are weird to me. How far will this PG 'era' go? WWE isn't really the same as it was 2009, so I don't really see how it's the same 'era'. If WWE is still TV PG in 10 years will the PG era have lasted 16 years? WWE won't be the same in 2023 as it was in 2013. I probably sound grumpy but IDK it just kind of irks me. 


& yeah, no matter how much HHH tries to downplay Foley in every way possible, Foley made that guy and was by far his best opponent. Trip said something about Mick in the recent interview that was posted here that came off like a backhanded compliment. Called him 'not the best worker' or some horseshit. Yeah, ok Hunter. It's getting harder and harder to like him. NO @ HHH TALK BTW, I'M NOT TRYING TO START THAT, FTR.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More like Foley was the best worker. I'll do the revision for him.

I've stopped myself from ranting on the term "PG Era" about a hundred times. b/c the company was under the PG umbrella in the 90's too. Does that all count together? Nope. So enough of it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It's come to the point when every time something remotely important happens, it becomes an era. :lmao


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

It's the 2013 era man get your facts straight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk era had a good run. Now it's the Danielson Era. Still going to hope for that Drew McIntyre era to creep up soon.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, I hope we get a shot at a Drew era. It might make up for the Haku era that never happened.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Nothing beats the Val Venis era.

ALSO the four minute Hardcore Holly era of January 2004.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haku/Meng era. Never got off the ground. Now I'm in a depressed mood.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Depressed? Just consider that the AXEL ERA is coming soon! :axel


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Screw y'all, i'm awaiting for the *Renee Young era.*



Homer lemar said:


> Kurt angle is better:
> Kurt angle vs shawn michael vengance ****
> Kurt angle vs chris benoit wrestlemania x7 ****
> Kurt angle vs john cena no mercy 2003 ****
> ...


Dude, I understand you're a fan of Angle, and he's good yeah, and it's your opinion yeah, but:

- Angle/Michaels No Mercy never happened;

- Angle/Benoit Rumble is Godawful.

Though I agree with some (especially ***** for Angle/Austin).


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think he might've been referring to their Ironman match, which took place the same month as No Mercy. Or maybe Angle vs. Cena vs. Michaels at Taboo Tuesday. Other than that, I got nothing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't feel the troll, fellas. Lets move on...

How about that Kaval guy, huh?


----------



## PulseGlazer (Aug 8, 2007)

Guys, got a friend who's selling off some rare WWF discs for those interested.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/tripleyesman/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p3686


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The 30 minute Iron Man on the Homecoming?

I'll be the 1st to tell you that, even though it was still pretty good, it kinda felt wrong that they have multiple falls over each other in 30 mins when they couldn't get one in that time at WM 21


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Angle and Shawn getting pinned by moves that they kicked out of at WM21 and Vengeance did seem weird. And I'd attempt to buy all of those WWF DVDs if I weren't broke 

Speaking of WWF DVDs, I got Rebellion 2001 a while ago and for whatever reason I haven't watched Rock vs. Austin. Is it any good?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

ATF said:


> - Angle/Benoit Rumble is Godawful.


People and their contra opinions


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Angle/Benoit RR resumed in one sentence:

Submissions suplexes submissions suplexes NO PSYCHOLOGY NO PROPER SELLING ALL THE INITIAL GOOD WORK WAS THROWN AWAY IN A FEW MINUTES NO SENSE AT ALL.

It was a mess. You may like it but imo it's horrendous.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Resumed?

And don't do that. I can make any match sound terrible with a turn of phrase. Doesn't mean it's as bad as that makes it sound. I don't even like that match much but it's pretty clear you're just expressing your contrarian view b/c you NEED TO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I NEED TO? Or b/c I want to? If I want to disagree, I will. It's my opinion and you have to deal with it. Contrarian view or not.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel

WWE seriously needs to book more matches like this. I know Dean Ambrose isn't Antonio Cesaro level good in the ring, but sheesh. Map out a short & effective match with a capable opponent and the midcard could be an absolute blast on PPVs. Goes for all aspects, not only midcard championships. Saw a glimmer with Rhodes vs Sandow at SummerSlam. Cesaro vs Gabriel was legit one of my favorites from the PPV calendar last year. The Ryder match from NOC follows this too. Short, sweet, & to the point of great wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thought i'd upload this if anyone wants it too 

*Lucha 8-man Tag - WCW/NWO Souled Out 1998*

Juventud Guerrera, Super Calo, Chavo Guerrero Jr, and Lizmark Jr vs Psychosis, La Parka, Silver King and El Dandy.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nwa-w...g-wcw-nwo-souled-out-1998-a.html#post23056937


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

ATF said:


> The 30 minute Iron Man on the Homecoming?
> 
> I'll be the 1st to tell you that, even though it was still pretty good, it kinda felt wrong that they have multiple falls over each other in 30 mins when they couldn't get one in that time at WM 21


Ah, the logic of Ironman matches, I just always assume that the guys aren't putting as much energy into kicking out because they know the score can be evened almost immediately.

I should really watch Angle/Benoit at some point, there's certain BIG MATCHES from my dark period of no wrestling that I've just never watched, there'd be one of them.

I'm expecting I'll like it, nowhere near the ***** quite a few people throw at it but I'm sure I'll like it.

Although I thought the same going into Cena/Umaga LMS and the Jericho/Michaels Ladder match and they're both like *** or below for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as i'm concerned, the only Angle/Benoit worthy of the caliber of both men is Judgment Day '01. That is a truly brilliant outing and by far their best.

Angle/Benoit RR is, with a close 2nd being the Bret/Shawn IM, the most overrated match of all time imo.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Zayn/Cesaro (2/3 Falls; NXT): ****1/2*

DAT ENDING



ATF said:


> I NEED TO? Or b/c I want to? If I want to disagree, I will. It's my opinion and you have to deal with it. Contrarian view or not.


Well, the original point was that your opinions are terrible/ill-formed. Still waiting on a clarification from this:



> 1 - The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 18: Badd Blood
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:lmao


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

ATF said:


> As far as i'm concerned, the only Angle/Benoit worthy of the caliber of both men is Judgment Day '01. That is a truly brilliant outing and by far their best.
> 
> Angle/Benoit RR is, with a close 2nd being the Bret/Shawn IM, the most overrated match of all time imo.


Well, to you. I also agree, don't like either matches. But I think you should be going in softer when critising matches. Putting down Benoit/Angle in a sentence seems pointless. Everyone has a different opinion and it should be left like that. I mean, really, idea shouldn't be to influence peoples opinions, would turn with everyone having the same opinion.


Two Saturday Nights from 1995 WCW, two Sting matches where he is the only beneficiary. Disappointing, but had wrote some notes on it anyway so shaped it into a mini review.

Steven Regal vs Sting (SN) 23/09/95
Personally I don't rate Sting as a worker. Very average. Fuck it, probably below that. But the great Lordship himself is one man who can make Sting look good, surely? Oh, yes. They are given five minutes, and the great Lordship makes a miracle. A match with Sting in the mid '90s I can enjoy. The devious, smug personality that Regal oozes is just incredible. Great chain wrestling bit, well, exceptional for men of their size. It is a bit lumbered in movement, but how it was executed without problems is definately the highlight. Worked well to put Sting across as a slight underdog. I would hope to say Regal over too but it end's abrupt. Pretty much too put over a potential Flair/Sting duo against the Enforcer & the Loose Cannon. If there is another match between these two down the line, and goes beyond 10 minutes, a must watch.

Sting vs Brian Pillman 30/09/95
Pillman got himself the match by removing Johnny B. Badd to get himself a chance at Sting following Pillman's defeat to Badd at Fall Brawl. Pillman is evolving his personality into the Loose Cannon. Another match really where Sting seems to be the only one to really benefit from it. It is a slight spectacle for evolving Pillman's loose cannon personality, trashing up the ringside barricade & trying to escape. I reckon they had the match set up in the opposite manner by accident. The opening should of been the ending, with Pillman getting a slight come-uppance. Pillman's beat down sequence on Sting felt pointless, ending however was decently done, crowd popped so it worked I guess. But lacksture. Sting with the U.S belt seems like a Sheamus who does short matches. Opponents definately aren't getting over from it. Pillman wrestles a great 30 minute match on Fall Brawl, to fall short to Sting in what seems 5-6 minutes.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Silverthorn said:


> Zayn/Cesaro (2/3 Falls; NXT): ****1/2*
> 
> DAT ENDING
> 
> ...


Did you watch the full match? Not arguing it deserves a higher rating or what not (I loved it) but there's been confusion with some people watching a 10-12 minute copy when the actual match goes 17-18 minutes. The second fall has been clipped to high heaven in the edited version. I really liked how they kept a number of staple spots from their indy series but in the WWE environment built to them far better and made them standout as truly impressive as a result.

arf :~ @ that description of the HBK/Taker character dynamic.


@ Desecrated: I actually like a lot of early 90s Sting. I wouldn't call him as being on the level of Dustin Rhodes, Windham, Steamboat, Pillman & co from that era of babyfaces, but I do think he's a generally good-very good guy with a great babyface power offence (really wish Cena would incorporate some of Surfer Stings' offence) and capable of some strong working from the bottom performances. The Sting/Vader series for example is a great effort by both guys and I'm a big fan of his work in the Dangerous Alliance program. You seen Regal/Sting GAB '96? Their best match and a wonderful Regal showcase as he dominates 90% of the match. Sting puts him over really well in that match to compliment Regal's majestic performance.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Desecrated, Yeah, I think I have anger issues when it comes to that match. It just pisses me off to no end. Do you imagine some of the tantrums thrown by Pyro? That's my reaction everytime someone gives that mess a favourable rating. And while it is an opinion and I have to respect it, my feelings for that match go well beyond hate.



Silverthorn said:


> Well, the original point was that your opinions are terrible/ill-formed. Still waiting on a clarification from this:
> 
> 
> 
> :lmao


May I inform you that English isn't even my 1st language. If I have bad vocabulary it's not because I don't try.

And I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that. That was the story that this match and many other matches have told, but this one told it the best. Difficult?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, Sting doesn't get his proper due. 90-94 Sting at best was really, really good, and he had a neat resurgence in 1999 with the Benoit, Flair, DDP matches. I don't think he's anything near an all timer, and I wouldn't call him legit GREAT, but I'll take him EASILY over your HHHs, Angles, Edges, and I'd rank him above people like Jericho, the Rock and the Big Show as well. Some of those guys are mentioned as all time greats (or even the single greatest of all time).



EDIT - Hoheheim's remark has nothing to do with the English, it's that Taker was the face and Michaels was the heel. [i'm pretty sure, anyway. it's a good guess if not. GIVE ME POINTS.]


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah. I downloaded the entire NXT episode. The match ran like 17 mins. I have never seen their indy series so I can't really draw from that, but I did see their previous NXT matches.



ATF said:


> May I inform you that English isn't even my 1st language. If I have bad vocabulary it's not because I don't try. And I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that. That was the story that this match and many other matches have told, but this one told it the best. Difficult?


First, I don't care about your English. It just wasn't clear what you were trying to say. Second, have you even seen that Cell match?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

ATF said:


> And I'm not sure what's so hard to understand about that. That was the story that this match and many other matches have told, but this one told it the best. Difficult?


HBK is not the babyface in that match. He accidentally cost Taker the match @ Summerslam but after that they ran with him as the utter coward and slimy heel trying to duck Taker, hence HIAC being devised to effectively trap and contain him with Taker with no room for escape. Don't get me wrong, to a degree the match does a great job of building this uncomfortable tension that HBK is a lamb to the slaughter, but you've got the character dynamic mixed up if you think Taker was the heel and Shawn the face.



Silverthorn said:


> Yeah. I downloaded the entire NXT episode. The match ran like 17 mins. I have never seen their indy series so I can't really draw from that, but I did see their previous NXT matches.


(Y) . Just checking since numerous people here and in the MOTYC thread in the OW section have suffered by downloading the wrong link. Zayn's through the ropes DDT on the floor was a staple Generico spot and I know they've done the powerbomb > sunset flip reversal spot in their indy matches, but I did think this was a strong indication of their chemistry shining in a new setting with different expectations in working a match. A renewal of the program eventually on the main roster could be something great.

Small note, I loved how they telegraphed the finish to the second fall with Zayn repeatedly blocking Cesaro fully executing the chinlock beforehand with his right hand.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really like Sting as a worker, personally. Didn't feel he became average till about 1999, give or take. Post DDP classic on Nitro. Still, didn't mean he couldn't have a good/really match here and there. Which goes on for up until the latter portion of his TNA career. Suppose one could say it came a bit earlier than that, but I think that was more via the caliber of opponents he was put up against & the shenanigans that plagued it. No hope for the Hogan match from Starrcade though. Best built up match with the flattest work shown. Guess it didn't matter as it still worked out for business. And they knew it.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> @ Desecrated: I actually like a lot of early 90s Sting. I wouldn't call him as being on the level of Dustin Rhodes, Windham, Steamboat, Pillman & co from that era of babyfaces, but I do think he's a generally good-very good guy with a great babyface power offence (really wish Cena would incorporate some of Surfer Stings' offence) and capable of some strong working from the bottom performances. The Sting/Vader series for example is a great effort by both guys and I'm a big fan of his work in the Dangerous Alliance program. You seen Regal/Sting GAB '96? Their best match and a wonderful Regal showcase as he dominates 90% of the match. Sting puts him over really well in that match to compliment Regal's majestic performance.


I see a lot of Sheamus in 92-96 Sting. Good mix of offence, selfless and can put on a good show when given what's necessary. Those two matches I put up probably aren't the best examples. But looking at it as the start of this program I am getting into. Most of my dislike for Sting is from late '80s/90-91, and then his work as the crow & the little bits I've seen of TNA. Are there any 'good' Sting matches from '95/'96, to keep an eye out for? Excluding GAB96, that shall be soon.

Had plans to delve into DA, downloads were chugging along at a smooth 10kb/s and had given up. A weak effort from myself. Definately on the agenda, just when is my big question.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Silverthorn said:


> First, I don't care about your English. It just wasn't clear what you were trying to say. Second, have you even seen that Cell match?


Well I hope I made myself clear this time around. And what makes you think I didn't watch it? Sure the babyface/heel roles I got wrong, but from my pov it made it look the way I described it. The way Shawn was being manslaughtered by Taker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, Sting doesn't get his proper due. 90-94 Sting at best was really, really good, and he had a neat resurgence in 1999 with the Benoit, Flair, DDP matches. I don't think he's anything near an all timer, and I wouldn't call him legit GREAT, but I'll take him EASILY over your HHHs, Angles, Edges, and I'd rank him above people like Jericho, the Rock and the Big Show as well. Some of those guys are mentioned as all time greats (or even the single greatest of all time).





WOOLCOCK said:


> @ Desecrated: I actually like a lot of early 90s Sting. I wouldn't call him as being on the level of Dustin Rhodes, Windham, Steamboat, Pillman & co from that era of babyfaces, but I do think he's a generally good-very good guy with a great babyface power offence (really wish Cena would incorporate some of Surfer Stings' offence) and capable of some strong working from the bottom performances. The Sting/Vader series for example is a great effort by both guys and I'm a big fan of his work in the Dangerous Alliance program. You seen Regal/Sting GAB '96? Their best match and a wonderful Regal showcase as he dominates 90% of the match. Sting puts him over really well in that match to compliment Regal's majestic performance.


I did put a list of Sting's best matches for a friend of mine, i put some on the list just to pad it out a bit:

Sting/Luger vs The Steiner Brothers - Superbrawl I
Sting/Luger/Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/'Sting' - Fall Brawl 1996: Wargames
Sting/Nikita Koloff vs Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard - Great American Bash 1988
Sting/Ric Flair vs Terry Funk/The Great Muta - Halloween Havoc 1989

Sting vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions I
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Clash Of The Champions II
Sting vs Cactus Jack - Beach Blast 1992
Sting/Ric Flair vs Vader/Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994

Sting vs Hulk Hogan vs DDP vs Ric Flair - Spring Stampede 1999
Sting/Luger vs Steiner Brothers vs Harlem Heat - Clash Of The Champions 1996
Sting/Steamboat vs Steve Austin/Ric Flair - WCW Saturday Night 1994
Sting vs DDP - Nitro 26.04.1999

Sting vs Goldberg – Nitro 14.09.1998
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - Nitro 20.11.1995
Sting/British Bulldog/Dustin Rhodes vs Vader/Sid/Rick Rude - Clash Of The Champions 1993
Sting vs Lord Steven Regal - WCW Great American Bash 1996
Sting vs Meng - The Great American Bash 1995

Sting vs Lex Luger SuperBrawl II (1992)
Sting vs Rick Rude - Clash 18.11.1992
Sting vs Scott Steiner - Nitro 27.05.1996
Sting/Luger vs Road Warriors - Superbrawl 96
Sting/Muta vs Stenier Brothers - NJPW Supershow 1992

Sting vs Lex Luger vs Ric Flair - Starrcade 1995
Sting/Macho Man vs Avalanche/Big Bubba - Superbrawl 1995
Sting vs Big Van Vader - Great American Bash 1992
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - Starrcade 1995

Sting vs The Great Muta - 21.03.1991 (Japan Version)
Starrcade 1991 Battlebowl Battle-Royal
Sting vs Vader - Starrcade 1992
Sting/Dusty Rhodes vs Road Warriors - Starrcade 1988
Sting/Luger/Windham vs Ric Flair/Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard - Main Event 03.04.1988

Sting vs Ric Flair - Great American Bash 1990
Sting vs Great Muta - Great American Bash 1989
Sting vs The Giant - Slamboree 1996
Sting/Booker T vs The Road Warriors - (Chicago Street Fight) Uncensored 1996

Sting vs Sid Vicious - Halloween Havoc 90
Sting/British Bulldog vs Vader/Sid (19/9/1993)
Sting vs Jeff Jarrett - TNA Bound for Glory 2006
Sting vs Kurt Angle - TNA Bound For Glory 2007
Sting/Brian Pillman/Rick Steiner/Scott Steiner vs Ric Flair/Larry Zbyszko/Barry Windham/Sid Vicious. - Wrestle War 1991: Wargames

Sting vs Bret Hart - Halloween Havoc 1998
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - SuperBrawl 1998
Sting vs Kevin Nash vs DDP vs Goldberg - Nitro 1999
Sting vs Bobby Eaton - Saturday Night 16.10.1993
Sting/Dave Boy Smith vs Harlem Heat - Saturday Night 28.08.1993

Sting vs Vader - Superbrawl III (Strap match)
Sting/The Giant vs The Outsiders - Slamboree 1998
Sting vs Rick Rude - Spring Stampede 1994
Sting/Scott Steiner vs Jeff Jarrett/Booker T - Nitro 2000

Sting vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 1999
Sting/Luger vs The Outsiders - Hog Wild 1996
Sting vs Vader vs Guardian Angel - Fall Brawl 1994
Sting vs Dean Malenko - Nitro 1995
Sting vs. Ric Flair - Nitro 1999

Sting/Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude/Steve Austin - Clash 21.01.1992
Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko /Rick Rude (WCWSN 2/22/92)
Sting/Marcus Bagwell/Rick/Scott Steiner vs Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Cactus Jack (Pro 2/22/92)
Sting/Marcus Bagwell vs Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko (Pro 2/1/92)
Sting’s Squadron vs Dangerous Alliance - (Wargames) (Wrestlewar 1992)
Sting/Lex Luger vs The Steiner Brother vs Harlem Heat - Nitro 1996

Sting vs Cactus Jack (Submit or Surrender - WCW 19.11.1991)
Sting vs Bret Hart - Nitro 1999
Sting vs Bret Hart - Nitro 1999 (Hardcore Match)
Sting vs AJ Styles - Bound For Glory 2009
Sting vs Steve Austin - WCW Saturday Night 1994

Sting/The Steiner Brothers vs Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton - WCW Worldwide 10/03/1992
Sting/Randy Savage/Lex Luger vs The Outsiders (Bash at the Beach 1996)
Sting/Hulk Hogan/Randy Savage/Lex Luger vs The Dungeon of Doom (War Games Match Fall Brawl 1995)

Sting vs Abyss - TNA Genesis 2006
Sting vs Ron Simmons - Power Hour 1988
Sting/Dr Death vs Terry Funk/Terry Gordy - Power Hour 1989
Sting vs Great Muta - Power Hour 1989
Sting vs Kensuke Sasaki - Japan 1995
Sting/Keiji Mutoh vs. The Road Warriors - Japan 1996

Sting/Steve Williams vs Erik Watts/Jushin Liger - Starrcade 1992
Sting/The Steiners/Ivan Koloff vs Vader/Rick Rude/Jake Roberts/Super Invader - Clash of the Champions XX (1992)
Sting/Ron Simmons vs Vader/Rick Rude (WCWSN 1992)
Sting vs Samoa Joe - Bound For Glory 2008
Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Brian Pillman vs Rick Rude/Steve Austin/Paul Orndorff w/Rob Parker - Thundercage (Superbrawl IV)
Ric Flair & Sting vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 09/12/1989

Sting/Dustin Rhodes/Cactus Jack vs Big Van Vader/Paul Orndorff/Barry Windham - (Thunderdome Cage) (1993)
Sting/Muta vs Vader/Chono - (Philadelphia PA, 29/12/1992, handheld)
Sting vs Barry Windham - Clash of the Champions III
Sting vs Sid - Halloween Havoc 1993
Sting/Barry Windham vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard vs (WWW 1/16/88)
Sting/Luger vs Arn Anderson/Tully Blanchard vs (Crockett Cup 4/23/88)
Sting vs Barry Windham (Philly Handheld 9.10.88)

Sting vs Ric Flair - Clash Of The Champions XXVII 1994
Sting/Hulk Hogan/Goldberg vs Kevin Nash/Sid Vicious/Rick Steiner - Nitro 9th August 1999
Sting vs Hulk Hogan - Starrcade 1997 (Included for historical value only - up yours Hogan)

Sting vs Scott Hall - Uncensored 1998
Sting vs Ric Flair - Starrcade 1989
Sting vs Hiroshi Hase - WCWNJPW Supershow 1993
Sting/The Steiner Brothers vs Big Van Vader/Cactus Jack/Mr. Hughes. (Main Event – 2.9.92)
Sting/The British Bulldog/Dustin Rhodes & The Shockmaster vs Big Van Vader/Sid Vicious/Harlem Heat (Fall Brawl – 9/19/93)
Sting/Rick Rude vs Vader/Ric Flair (Clash 1/27/94)
Sting/The British Bulldog vs Big Van Vader/Sid Vicious - (Beach Blast – 7/18/93)
Sting/Ricky Steamboat vs Ric Flair/Steve Austin - 7/30/1994


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

You watched HBK attack the cameramen, heard the commentators call it (unless you watched it with the sound turned off) and thought that Shawn was the face and Undertaker was the heel? Sorry, hard time buying that.

@ WOOLCOCK: Cesaro's feats of strength were amazing and were the backbone of the match for me. The superplex, another suplex attempt, the finish, they laid down Zayn's downfall for me. However much *better* Zayn might've been than Cesaro, the brute strength of the Swiss Superman was still impossible to overcome there.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

@zep81, I'd totally dig into your list if it was done chronologically. Guessing it's done by starz or just as you've uncovered them?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sting & Muta vs Vader & Chono? Sweet Lady Gaga.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> I see a lot of Sheamus in 92-96 Sting. Good mix of offence, selfless and can put on a good show when given what's necessary. Those two matches I put up probably aren't the best examples. But looking at it as the start of this program I am getting into. Most of my dislike for Sting is from late '80s/90-91, and then his work as the crow & the little bits I've seen of TNA. Are there any 'good' Sting matches from '95/'96, to keep an eye out for? Excluding GAB96, that shall be soon.
> 
> Had plans to delve into DA, downloads were chugging along at a smooth 10kb/s and had given up. A weak effort from myself. Definately on the agenda, just when is my big question.


I haven't seen as much of his late 80s work bar the Flair matches really. Yeah1993's time period is his strongest by far though. I don't consider the bulk of his work post crow persona to be all that great, though he was capable of some very strong matches in that timeframe albeit on a less consistent basis than his peak.

I can't truthfully off the top of my head recall many other Sting matches from that timeframe really. '95 was a weak year for WCW in terms of their '92-96 period (think Vader/Boss vs Stars N' Stripes is my company MOTY) and very little jumps out in '96 for Sting apart from the Bash @ the Beach tag w/ Savage & Luger vs Hall & Nash. Yeah1993 & Cody might be able to add to any I've overlooked however.

There's an assortment of great tags from late '91 throughout '92 in the Dangerous Alliance feud. You've got Sting, Steamboat, Rhodes, Arn, Eaton, Rude, Zybszko, Heyman & Austin all intertwined. Plus the likes of Windham & Pilman involed pre and post DA. The '92 WarGames is still the best incarnation of that gimmick imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I believe you meant 'thought Shawn was the face and Undertaker was the heel' 

I did, but my point here is how Shawn was just being brutalized there. It had a sense of uncomfort watching him being beatdown and whatnot. The build-up, with Shawn mocking Taker and all, made it clear he was the heel. But the match itself made me feel the opposite tbh.

But I won't lie that I legit mixed up here, my mistake then.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Desecrated said:


> @zep81, I'd totally dig into your list if it was done chronologically. Guessing it's done by starz or just as you've uncovered them?


I put most of them on disc for a friend, but the program i used i had to mix them up due to not being able to mix 4:9 with 16:9 etc lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Sting & Muta vs Vader & Chono? Sweet Lady Gaga.


Yeah, i still havn't watched it myself, it is a handheld house show, ill try and up it if you like later 

Sori for the double post, i forgot to multi quote.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One Cesaro gem I'm a fan of is the SSlam 2012 one vs Santino. Pretty fun stuff:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Regal match vs Sting happens in '96, SI. I know I liked Sting vs Giant from Slamboree '96 too. TV...hmm. Again, more that I had to like. Just nothing popping up atm. *looked it up* HA. Knew he worked a singles match vs Arn. 7/8/96. He worked vs Regal on TV, Eaton, MENG, Barbarian, DDP, Scott Steiner, and some other good talents too. Huh. His '96 may be a nice forgotten pool of fun matches.

EDIT ~ @Zep: I'll def appreciate the upload.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Silverthorn said:


> @ WOOLCOCK: Cesaro's feats of strength were amazing and were the backbone of the match for me. The superplex, another suplex attempt, the finish, they laid down Zayn's downfall for me. However much *better* Zayn might've been than Cesaro, the brute strength of the Swiss Superman was still impossible to overcome there.


I loved the callbacks to their first two matches as well with Zayn finally countering the tilt-a-whirl backbreaker and gutwrench suplex which Cesaro had successfully hit in their first two matches. Even countering the midair uppercut with the quickly timed dropkick setup the eventual finish really well. The sequence in the final fall where Zayn attempts the quick pin that won him the first match, only for Cesaro to counter into the chinlock which crucially won him the rematch only for Zayn to do the Bret Hart roll through into a pin attempt was probably my favourite of the match in terms of intelligence and attention to detail.



ATF said:


> I believe you meant 'thought Shawn was the face and Undertaker was the heel'
> 
> I did, but my point here is how Shawn was just being brutalized there. It had a sense of uncomfort watching him being beatdown and whatnot. The build-up, with Shawn mocking Taker and all, made it clear he was the heel. But the match itself made me feel the opposite tbh.


They definitely create an uncomfortable foreshadowing of grisly violence at HBK's expense (it's why I believe that no matter how much more brutal Lesnar/Taker and HHH/Batista were, the original HIAC still encapsulates the eery tension and unease more astutely), however it definitely comes across more as the heel finally getting his justified comeuppance at the hands of a monstrous face. It's pretty much a heel in peril segment turned into an entire match with HBK repeatedly trying multiple avenues to escape without success.

I'm not saying to some degree you don't feel for HBK given the extent of the beating he takes, but it's definitely an example of a heel being mercilessly massacred for good measure rather than the heroic underdog being brutalised by the monster heel.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I think I got caught up in that cause Shawn always wrestled a very face style, despite his clever heel antics. Kinda like Ziggler in that department.

Which makes me wonder what if someone like Rey turned heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was a heel in WCW circa 2000. It was dreadful.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Booking Rey Mysterio as a heel would require a severe lapse in judgement, common sense and understanding of what makes Rey Mysterio a marketable and charismatic individual. So of course Vince Russo is the only writer who took it upon himself to make it so.

It takes a great deal of skill on the wrestlers' part to succeed as the cowardly petite heel in the land of bodybuilders and gladiators. Simply being small alone cannot gain heat. The performer needs to alter their style, understand the basics of how to believeably control matches against larger opponents and crucially carry themselves in promos and their mannerisms as worthy of being booed. Mysterio's mask significantly hinders his facial expressions and mannerisms and his overall style of explosive agility and unique offence makes it impractical to work as a heel. For it to succeed he'd either have to significantly abandon his offence and work a more refined style to gain heat by refusing to induldge the crowd with his athleticism, or he'd have to truly channel Brian Pillman in terms of keeping aspects of his babyface offence but timing them and playing off of them in a cocky manner to attract heat.

Really though, Mysterio's size and working style is just suited for a babyface. He's too instinctively sympathetic for any crowd to believeably root against him and for him to wrestle as a true heel he'd have to abandon the characteristics that made him a major success in the first place.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Silverthorn said:


> You watched HBK attack the cameramen, heard the commentators call it (unless you watched it with the sound turned off) and thought that *Shawn was the heel *and Undertaker was the face? Sorry, hard time buying that.


I did, is that bad? :side:

STING-

Definitely watch the Austin matches - WCWSN 1/8/94 (not 95-96 but w/e) and 4/8/95. I'm not saying this because people like Cody and myself and Cody are fans of Meng (I think Cody kind of likes him too), but the Sting/Meng stuff rules. Loved the GAB95 match, and I'm pretty sure they had at least one more, but I'd be lying if I said I was 100% positive. I'm drawing a blank on the rest of Sting's 95. I saw a decent batch of his 96 stuff thanks to the 96 yearbook, and while the Regal match is the only awesome thing he had all year (which was all Regal), I thought his matches with Flair, and tags with Luger v. American Males, Flair and Giant, Faces of Fear, Ric & Arn were all solid. I won't heavily recommend any of them, but from what I remember (and it was like two years ago...goddamn.....I kind of miss that time in my life), they aren't cases for Sting being mediocre. Which is something, I guess. Still, you're better off with 89-94 Sting. Vader matches, Cactus brawls, being a heavy part of WarGames, initial Luger tag team, Rick Rude & Dangerous Alliance feud, shockingly good matches with Muta. Come to think of it, 89, 90, 91, 92, and 94 are the years to look at, I think. 1993 wasn't a great year for a lot of WCW guys. Ah fuck, throw in 1999 too. Everyone knows the DDP match, but I loveddddd the Benoit (9/20) and Flair (4/12) matches as well. There's a Bret Hart match people like that I haven't seen(IIRC) too. I reckon I oughta go out of my way to watch more 1988 Sting, too. Always heard that Windham match was great.

EDIT - Fuck what I said about Sting's 93 not being that hot. There are enough Vader matches that year to like (the strap classic and like four on house show. I think. I'm fuckin tired).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meng? Yeah he's mighty swell.

_"Shockingly good matches with Muta."_ The compliment was backhanded at Muta. I know you. :leslie


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

A Nitro supershow? Intrigued. Big named card, goes more to the flow of their later 2/3 hour shows (currently 45 minute shows). Big attraction match, undercard Cruisweight match & something with a bit of a personal backstory.



Spoiler: NITRO 2nd of October 95



*Randy Savage vs Lex Luger*
Ah, this match started nicely. Well, once they returned from commercial. Went straight into malicious intent once they scrapped the pre-commercial 'overpowering battle'. In, then out of the ring. Get back into the ring after that and it takes a slight hit. Savage trying to end it early with a small package? Why? Thought he wanted to HURT LEX LUGER~~. More attempts of trying to overpower each other is rather weird too, especially into a cradle pin. Lack of cut-throat after some early promise. But Savage makes up for that, especially between spots. He has the right idea. Can feel the intensity he is delivering into everything. Can't think of much in wrestling that beats the hatred Savage can put into matches. Bit of a weird ref spot, but it's all cue for THE GIANT to kill Savage with a chokeslam straight from the heavens.
Good match for a relatively short bout, outside of my qualms which are minor anyway. Could easily overlook them if I was to rewatch it.

*Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko*
Excellent to go from them wrestling into a Hogan/J. Hart promo mid match with no purpose. As for the match itself, their series of moves is executed very well. Crisp technique, paced to a tee. As an example, just picture yourself watching two professionals ball dance. But it's a bit formulaic, 'I hit a move, you counter the next'. Not much on their ECW stuff & their later work in the Cruisweight/TV division. I'd recommend it if you were more into this style, catch as one can, or just wanted to watch their series of matches. But it's not very rememberable on their grand scale. Good enough for TV.

*Arn Anderson vs Ric Flair*
Did they decide their Fall Brawl match wasn't good enough? Because they come out here all guns ablazin', straight to each others throats with some guile. And that was always a much better way for these two men to go into a match. Thought their chain wrestling at Fall Brawl was rather detrimental. However they go into a 'ah, beaten down' stage all of a sudden, and without work. Arn hitting his signature Spinebuster and is too 'fatigued' to go for the cover? That early on? Huh. Pacing of it also seems off now. Chop to the chest, fall to the floor. Elbow to the head, fall to the floor. In for a F4LL, scratch that. . Match over with Pillman interfering. Bit of potential comes to a crashing halt when they blew their load prematurely. But goes to a Anderson/Flair cage next week. If they take the best of their Nitro/Fall Brawl matches and put it together in the cage, in for the treat of a lifetime.



Time to pack some matches up together after this & release them 2-4 weeks at a time.

Which Anderson/Flair match is the one that always gets talked up? I remember there is one that does. Fall Brawl was around 'just good'. This Nitro match wasn't well layered from my POV. Is it their cage?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I for one am a huge gigantic fan of Cactus vs Sting at Beach Blast. That match is just 12 minutes or so of awesomeness, I'd put it as one of my top 10 favorite Sting matches, easily. I really wish they still had that elevated ramp sometimes, I loved watching Cactus brawl up and down that thing and sometimes take these just hellacious bumps off it. I missed Cactus first run in WCW in 1989 or so, but I was a full fledged fan by the time he came back. His matches with Sting and Vader are really what got me into him as a performer. I still remember him clobbering Vader and Harley Race with that steel shovel :lmao

And who cares if ATF got the heel/face mixed up in HiaC with Taker and Shawn? Is it really so unforgivable to make 1 mistake when describing a match? Obviously if he's on this forum he's probably seen that match, and I don't see a lot of other people taking the time out to watch and rate all the PPV main events in WWE history, he should be getting props for that. Even if he's flat out wrong about Angle vs Benoit being a good match . that match is like one of those badass Hollywood action flicks that might not make a lot of sense but is endlessly entertaining anyways, like The Expendables or The Transporter 2 (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Going through some TV gems and found DA BEARD giving Sin Cara his best WWE match ever:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Going through some TV gems and found DA BEARD giving Sin Cara his best WWE match ever:



I actually just saw that for the first time about a week ago, easily Sin Caras best match in WWE, leave it to Mr. Beard to get it out of him. Very fun little match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> *Guess it didn't matter as it still worked out for business. And they knew it.*



NO CODY.

That type of thinking leads us to THIS;










:heyman6

Anywhoways, checking out some Guerrero still and now I'm on the Superbrawl 1997 match against Jericho which is allegedly boring as fuck. Can't be any worse than the Malenko ECW match on here I suppose.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm starting a little project based on three guys who I believe are the perfect match for anyone, and have a selection of other guys in history and a respective formula for the best match possible against said opponent.

The "perfect matches" imo:
- Brock Lesnar
- Chris Benoit
- The Undertaker

Initial 5 opponents are Andre, Angle, Cena, Hogan and Kane.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Actually a fan of the stingers, seen some hate that's unwarranted tbh
--
I don't care what Gonzo says, Mick foley MADE those matches all of them don't give me that hhh 00 bull
---
Is the full zayn/cesaro the one zep uploaded a couple days ago ?

Edit: who the hell is Corporate King of Kings


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Sting & Muta vs Vader & Chono? Sweet Lady Gaga.


Here you go:

*Sting & Muta vs Vader & Masa Chono (Philadelphia PA, 29/12/1992, handheld)*

WCW House Show:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nwa-w...phia-pa-29-12-1992-handheld.html#post23061801


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> who the hell is Corporate King of Kings


I had to do what was best for business.

:brock


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually forget that post, I've convinced myself that there is only one Perfect Match and his name is BRRRROCKKKKK LLLLESSSSNAR :heyman3 :brock

I mean, the guy gets the best of all he wrestles. Look at a collection of his matches:

vs Cena ER and BL '03
vs Punk
vs HHH all 3 of them
vs Angle all of them
vs Rock
vs Taker UF and HIAC
vs Benoit
vs Eddie
vs Edge Rebellion
vs Rey 12/11/03
vs Show pretty much all
vs RVD VG '02

And many others.

The only bad matches he had, vs Goldberg and vs Holly, were only bad because he called it a night before they had even began.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Brock destroys you, it's only normal for you to try and survive. No seriously, since he came back he is an awesome stiff worker


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ATF said:


> Actually forget that post, I've convinced myself that there is only one Perfect Match and his name is BRRRROCKKKKK LLLLESSSSNAR :heyman3 :brock
> 
> I mean, the guy gets the best of all he wrestles. Look at a collection of his matches:
> 
> ...


THAT'S TRUE.

Coming from somebody who watched EVERY Lesnar match that's available I can pretty much back this statement up 110 percent of the way. Probably the last great squash worker in the WWE as well, boy was straight up ballin' against the likes of Matt Hardy, Shannon Moore, Spanky, Zack Gowen, ETC. 

Hell, his ruthless war machine character now is like a fresh approach to a monster heel as he has the freak athleticism at such a high level that nobody else has ever seen before.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock Lesnar vs Mark Henry has to happen again. Both trying to squash each other would be *glorious*.

Do it WWE. PLEASE.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's only a handful of babyfaces that are even going to get a CHANCE to get a shot at Brock within the next two years, and these individuals are;

- CM Punk (Again)
- John Cena (Again)
- The Undertaker
- The Rock
- Daniel Bryan (Outside of the box)
- Sheamus (Outside of the box)

I think he takes on the top four and that's all TBH. If Rock comes back, then Rock Vs Brock is a given to main event a Wrestlemania and probably be Rock's last match ever. Taker & Rock will happen at Mania, a Punk rematch will happen sometime before Mania this year, and a feud with Cena will probably be a headlining feud come summer 2014 if I'm a betting man.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> NO CODY.
> 
> That type of thinking leads us to THIS;
> 
> ...


That match isn't boring at all, I really like it. The crowd is just beyond dead because Jericho and Eddie were just two characterless baby faces at the time who had solicited zero interest from the fans due to the awful booking by WCW. If you ignore the crowd, they really do put on a clinic of a match. I wouldn't rank it as high as the Fall Brawl contest they would have later that year, which was a truly great match, but it is still very very good.

I can go on and on about Eddie, the guy was the perfect opponent for everyone. I'm so pissed Austin walked out in 2002, Steve had just chosen Eddie as his next guy to work with, but then Vince decided to make Austin job to Lesnar before the program started and that pissed Austin off to the point of him deciding to leave. It's a damn shame we don't have a 3 match series between Austin and Eddie to watch, that would have been really unique.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> NO CODY.
> 
> That type of thinking leads us to THIS;
> 
> ...


Nah. Different era & CLEARLY the different result. Fans didn't a a holy stinking shit about Cena vs Rock II. Even the marks were done with it. Sting vs Hogan may have sucked big time, but fans saw Hogan submit and felt it was still worth a payoff. Not to mention _(even though I don't care about it, but it went with how huge the program was)_ the massive PPV buys & attendance that show aka really the match produced. Nothing but success outside of the shoddy match quality.

SuperBrawl match is good. Fans crapping on it was lame, but eh. They did for Regal vs Finlay Uncensored '96 and look how that turned out.



zep81 said:


> Here you go:
> 
> *Sting & Muta vs Vader & Masa Chono (Philadelphia PA, 29/12/1992, handheld)*
> 
> ...


AMAZING.

Eternal thanks. :hayley3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Lesnar is pretty much a lock for Mania 30 atm. It really doesn't look like Rock is making it to Orleans, and that's still a huge plan on its own. Punk/Bryan or Punk/Cena would be a perfect sub-ME.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There was just something about that Superbrawl match that I didn't like, thought it was quite disjointed at times to be honest, the pacing just seemed a tad off to me at times. I need to see their other 97 PPV bout again that everybody says is the ultimate Guerero carry-job.

No real classic bouts on this first Guerrero disc, just a whole bunch of consistently great bouts outside of the Jericho & ECW Malenko matches. Guerrera, Ultimo, Psychosis matches were all pretty damn good though I must say. 

& of course the short Rey match on there, that was great.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

So yeah I can't wait for Sting to either retire or come to the WWE (I'd still mark like a motherfucker) just so WWE can release a 4 disc (3 blu rays) set of Sting matches with a doc. It will be badass. 




zep81 said:


> I did put a list of Sting's best matches for a friend of mine, i put some on the list just to pad it out a bit:
> 
> Sting/Luger vs The Steiner Brothers - Superbrawl I
> Sting/Luger/Ric Flair/Arn Anderson vs Hulk Hogan/Kevin Nash/Scott Hall/'Sting' - Fall Brawl 1996: Wargames
> ...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I had to do what was best for business.
> 
> :brock


And thats why I never trusted you since day 1 :ziggler1


You know two pretty good matches ? miz/cesaro and superfriends/shield ec 13. Both are very good and could have been in the MOTYC list if it wasnt for this rockin summer


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Cesaro vs Miz from Elimination Chamber is really quite good. Wait for it: we're not too surprised considering it IS Cesaro we're talking about.

I may have to watch the Eddie vs Jericho match atm to see how it holds up. Or just skip to the next night on Nitro b/c that's when it's those two vs FACES OF FEAR in that blistering tag match. WCW '97 = year of the bossy tag matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, there was a WM 30 match confirmed to happen already... back in '07.

CENA VS BECKHAM.

:cena4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IT IS CESARO THOUGH.

God, I really do love Swagger & Cesaro together. Just put them in a feud with Henry and Big Show & let them kill each other for 4 or 5 PPVs in a row. 

Reigns/Rollins Vs Swagger/Cesaro Vs Henry/Show ... Any combination of those matches could rule the universe for any PPVs to come.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Top 10 PG era matches huh? Well, now I've found something to do with my day.

Off the of my head though:

1. John Ceba vs CM Punk MITB 2011 ***** (The feud and match that represents it)
2. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker WM 25 *****
3. Brock Lesnar vs John Cena ER 2012 ****1/2

Well I have 7 more to go. I know for sure the 6 man TLC is on this list, it's just where to position. Punk/Lesnar may make the cut too. Gonna watch a shit load of matches now!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Did Andre/Taker happen at a house show? I assume not. I believe Andre's last match (on tv anyway) was when him and Haku lost the tag titles at WM6. I could be wrong. It would have been a cool farewell match for Andre against Taker at Summerslam 91 or something. Could have ended in a double count out or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're totally getting Rollins & Reigns vs Henry & Show for NOC. Officially :mark: @ that match. They're ucky SummerSlam didn't need it at the end of the day, thus cushioning the blow of not adding it. My body has been ready for weeks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 PG?

Imo:

Taker/Shawn 25 > Taker/Shawn 26 > Cena/Lesnar > Cena/Punk MITB > Taker/HHH HIAC > Punk/Bryan OTL > Hell No & Ryback/Shield > Jericho/Shawn NM > Taker/Punk > Punk/Lesnar.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I could see Henry/Show winning the tag titles and the Wyatt family taking the titles off them a ppv or two later. I was kind of hoping for a Show/Rey tag team with the finishing move being Rey doing some sort of flippity doo off of Show's shoulders. Oh well.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1. Brock Lesnar Vs John Cena (Extreme Rules 2012)
2. The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXVI)
3. CM Punk Vs John Cena (Money in the Bank 2011)
4. CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2013)

Then shit starts to get a little bit blurry, with the following matches all qualifying for the top 10;

Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania XXV)
CM Punk Vs John Cena (Summerslam 2011)
Mark Henry Vs Daniel Bryan (CAGE; Smackdown 2011)
CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania XXVIII)
Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar (Summerslam 2012)
The Shield Vs Ryback/Daniel Bryan/Kane (TLC 2012)
CM Punk Vs John Cena (RAW 2/25/2013)
CM Punk Vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXIX)

Then you have even MORE matches on the outside of that;

Jack Swagger Vs Christian (ECW.. SOMETIME in 2009, forget the date)
Sheamus Vs John Morrison (TLC 2010)
Randy Orton Vs Christian (Over the Limit 2011)
Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan (Extreme Rules 2012)
John Cena Vs CM Punk (Night of Champions 2012)
Alberto Del Rio Vs Dolph Ziggler (Payback 2013)

& MORE.

I know what you mean Cody... I've been marking over the idea of Henry & Show Vs Rollins & Reigns ever since the idea of it first came about. They seriously seem like the only time with a smidgeon of a chance to take out the champions as well, adding a layer of suspense to the match that other teams wouldn't be able to demonstrate. Looking forward to seeings a clash of the titans w/Reigns & for Rollins to bump like a pinball machine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Title switch is possible. Although part of me isn't wanting it b/c Shield has tag champs is actually working unlike Ambrose as United States champ. Ambrose fan, no doubt, but unless he only goes up from here out, that gold should pass hands before an elite duo drops their's. I'm a consistency mark, though.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I'm going to sound like Pyro here but I really hope the Wyatt family stay away from the Tag team titles for now. I truly believe those tag team titles and the two mid card titles are cursed. Ever since Shield won the titles, they've been losing matches (and I'm not counting DQ losses) and that wasn't the case before. It's sad that if you're the champion then the contender needs to beat you first and you get your revenge on a PPV match. Wyatts and the Shield are one of those guys that don't need any gold around their waist to prove how good they are.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Nah, I thought the Shield winning the gold at Extreme Rules 2013 was a great moment, and I'd honestly put the tag titles at the moment as being more valuable than they've been in a really long fucking time. The Tag division isn't really like many make it out to be, and that's due to the hard work put in by both Rollins and Reigns throughout the last year. 2013 as Rollins' first full year with the company and I think he's hands down the rookie of the year and there's no competition; he's beasting like no other.

& I'm not getting into that retarded Cena/Lesnar argument again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield has lost three six man matches clean. Hardly say that's a curse. They HAD to lose eventually. Danielson got the rub. Then Christian & RVD. All fitting names. Lets just call it what it is: Ambrose's reign is booked horribly, and the duo were given shit opponents following Payback. Things seem to be heading towards the right track. Not the singles role, but the rest of it. Being the McMahons henchmen already threw some spotlight back on 'em.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

henry/show vs. reign/rollins may be an only bright spot in a maybe dull NOC unless we get adr/ziggler III which we probably wont


henry/show vengeance could sneak in some of these top 10 list


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I get what you guys are saying bout 'eras'. I, myself, find the PG era thing stupid but it's basically a term used to describe WWE's change in product. That's all.

And no. Cena/Brock is an amazing match. Very unique in it's style. It was juts something different from what we're using to seeing. Kind of like HBK/Mankind at Mindgames. I guess. I don't know, I was only 2 back then but I'm pretty sure it was a unique match for its time. Not the best of comparisons, but you get my point.

The ending of Cena/Brock kinda left a bad taste in my mouth as well but shit, it's a fucking great goddamn motherfucking awesome fucking cunt-ass match. Excuse my language.

Moving on.....The Wyatts have been so disappointing thus far. They've done nothing. I mean, even the beat down on Kane sucked. 2 big 7 feet guys got their asses handed to them by Kane for like the first 2 minutes. I don't know, they've looked so weak imo. They haven' done anything newsworthy.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Shield winning the belts was a great moment don't get me wrong but it's weird how they beat almost every big name (including the Undertaker) then go on to lose to the likes of Christian and the Usos. I don't know if anybody here feels the same but there were times were I forgot who the tag team champions were because they weren't booked as important after winning the belts. I guess the most important thing is that they're finally important again with this Corporation faction.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shield have never lost to the Usos once. They were with Christian in a six man, but those chumps didn't get the fall. Every other match they've been in vs Shield they've jobbed. No faults there other than continuously putting them with The Shield as if they were meant to be credible. That was a step in the wrong direction for Rollins & Reigns, but at the same time, it happened b/c of how big they were/are and knew it meant more than the usual run of the mill WWE Tag Team Championship match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck the Uso's. With all of the talent that the WWE currently has under contract, they're clse to the bottom of the barrel with the likes of Kingston & R-Truth.

Which leads me to my next question; who are the truly BAD workers under contract with the company at the moment? Is the roster in a worse situation now than it was in five years ago? TEN years ago? Fifteen?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Roster has their shit heads, but I'd say for the majority it's more good than bad. This can include developmental.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

My Top 10 PG
1. Taker/Shawn 25 
2. Taker/Shawn 26 
3. Cena/Lesnar 
4. Cena/Punk MITB 
5. Punk/Bryan OTL
6. Taker/HHH HIAC 
7. Hell No & Ryback/Shield 
8. Jericho/Rey Bash 
9. Taker/Punk
10. Punk/Lesnar
Similar to ATF's


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Skins mentioned Shield/Avengers (_see what I did there _8*D ) as a potential MOTYC. I agree, and also the same for Shield vs Sheamus/Jericho/Ryback.

Two excellent matches now forgotten. That's the power of 2013 for ya.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Speaking of the tag teams, whatever happened to the Ascension?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I think Reigns and rollins are doing pretty good. They had a good match against The Usos at MITB. The Usos, imo, have become quite the credible tag team within recent times. I really like them. Btw, how awesome was that dive to the outside....with the tag! Anyway, Reigns and Rollins have a lot going for them. For crying out loud, they're getting to face Show and Henry.

It's Ambrose who's freaking directionless right now. I mean, RVD goes from losing to him at Summerslam to not giving a fuck 24 hours later and going after Del Rio.

I'll say it and I'll say it again, the focus was never on Ambrose. I made a post many months ago in the Shield discussion thread. The gist of it was that basically Rollins and Reigns are the guys they're prepping. They're the guys that get he most mic time, especially Rollins. 

I really like Ambrose. But it seems as if WWE doesn't see much in him atm. Either that or they're just clueless as to what to do with him. Their focus is clearly on Reigns and Rollins. I've always liked Reigns though. Always said that he was gonna be the star of the group. 

Btw, I need to ask a question concerning Ambrose. I don't follow the indies much, but even when I checked the forum out Jon Moxley was never a name I saw. It was only till he signed with the WWE (and had his match with Regal) people started to praise him. But I can't recall ever reading ANYTHING about him on these forums. Would you say that he was under the radar during his indy career?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not until DGUSA started up & he joined CZW. Whenever Callihan was brought up in CZW, Moxley wasn't too far behind (or ahead) with folks who watched the product. The Switchblade Conspiracy was often touted as being the best parts of the company for their entire tenure. Moxley kind of blew up over night. Back in 2006 - when I first discovered him - he wasn't really a guy anyone talked about.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

RVD never lost to Ambrose but I agree that Ambrose is the least protected member of the Shield.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

He suck so who cares ?

Deciding to watch some Michael Francis Foley on this beautiful Sunday afternoon


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> Speaking of the tag teams, whatever happened to the Ascension?


Squashing jobbers on NXT. 

I think WWE has a pretty damn good roster today. My only gripe with today's batch of wrestlers (and not just in the 'E') is that they can't work like the guys who came before them 10, 15 years ago. You can tell the difference. The guys nowadays are more technically sound in the ring, but as far as in-ring psychology and crowd psychology goes, there's not much guys that can do it. 

Also, some guys have trouble portraying their characters and getting themselves over. Sure, creative has some part to play but the wrestlers themselves have their part to play as well. I just find that technical aspect of wrestling has evolved but it seems as if the theatre aspect has taken 5 steps back.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rollins is usually the fall guy. Ambrose can't have a match happen without it ending in DQ. Not to mention he was the lad who got all of the singles matches first. I don't see the shift in him losing the importance. Let us not forget he was just the lone member who got his match as a tangent on the most recent PPV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm mixing Spongebob Squarepants & Eddie Guerrero on this lazy Sunday.

Fuckin' Right.

Has Reigns ever been pinned?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nope. Reigns has never suffered a clean defeat as of yet. On DQ's.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The crazy thing is that Reigns has only had TWO singles matches; one with Orton & one with Bryan.

I think a Punk Vs Shield feud should happen down the line after this Heyman stuff. Do Punk Vs Rollins and watch me mark all the fuck over the place.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Not until DGUSA started up & he joined CZW. Whenever Callihan was brought up in CZW, Moxley wasn't too far behind (or ahead) with folks who watched the product. The Switchblade Conspiracy was often touted as being the best parts of the company for their entire tenure. Moxley kind of blew up over night. Back in 2006 - when I first discovered him - he wasn't really a guy anyone talked about.


Speaking of Callihan, when did he blow up? He seems like another overnight superstar. I only discovered him when he had the first Evolve match with Finlay. A bunch of people were raving about it in the DVD section. But before that, never heard of him. Then again, I didn't follow CZW which I know was his home for a while. When I first got into indy wrestling I stayed away from CZW cause, you know, the misconception. Also, in 2011, I took a hiatus from indy wrestling. Actually, I only started to follow it again and it was because of Sami.

Anyway, Sami is another guy I'm confused by. I've looked at some of his '08 stuff. Holy shit, I would have skipped his matches completely just based on his look. I need to stop doing that because his performance at TPI '08 was amazing. Heck, I even downloaded IWA-EC Masters of Pain '09 just to see his match with Danny Havoc. That's how intrigued I became by him. Shit, he's in my sig now lol. From what I've seen, 2009 looks to have been the real turning point for him and by 2011 you could tell he had this shit down to a tee. It wasn't too long again till the 'E' came calling.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Anyone on here own the WarGames set? I was thinking of watching 2-3 matches off Amazon instant on my tv (you can buy the individual matches off the DVD and stream them on your tv for .99 cents each) which ones are the best? I've always heard great things about 1991 WrestleWar one but what are your guys personal favorites?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> The crazy thing is that Reigns has only had TWO singles matches; one with Orton & one with Bryan.
> 
> I think a Punk Vs Shield feud should happen down the line after this Heyman stuff. Do Punk Vs Rollins and watch me mark all the fuck over the place.


I mean this kindly but shut up. Don't even speak of the best dream match WWE could conjure up unless it actually happens. Punk vs Black. God dammit. It can happen. That's the worst part. Why isn't it going down? ahhhhhhhhh



sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of Callihan, when did he blow up? He seems like another overnight superstar. I only discovered him when he had the first Evolve match with Finlay. A bunch of people were raving about it in the DVD section. But before that, never heard of him. Then again, I didn't follow CZW which I know was his home for a while. When I first got into indy wrestling I stayed away from CZW cause, you know, the misconception. Also, in 2011, I took a hiatus from indy wrestling. Actually, I only started to follow it again and it was because of Sami.
> 
> Anyway, Sami is another guy I'm confused by. I've looked at some of his '08 stuff. Holy shit, I would have skipped his matches completely just based on his look. I need to stop doing that because his performance at TPI '08 was amazing. Heck, I even downloaded IWA-EC Masters of Pain '09 just to see his match with Danny Havoc. That's how intrigued I became by him. Shit, he's in my sig now lol. From what I've seen, 2009 looks to have been the real turning point for him and by 2011 you could tell he had this shit down to a tee. It wasn't too long again till the 'E' came calling.


Sort of randomly in 2008. He was in shape, he was making waves, & folks took notice. Gosh I was sucked into it. Fell in love with watching the dude upon the first match I saw. That was from his IWA-MS & work on the Midwest. Then, like you eluded to, once he arrived in CZW it was off to the races. Never understood why ROH didn't give him a chance to be full time, but their loss. At least he had that good match vs Aries in '09. 

He's only grown in leaps and bounds as the years went on. In terms of work & popularity. Still can't believe he's actually employed by WWE right now. Personally, I find that to be fantastic. Hoping Adam Cole could be next. Yes, I'm using their correlation to spawn this off. It'll be a blow to the indie scene, although I'm willing to compromise for the success he could have. I would like to say Eddie Kingston & Tim Donst, but miracles don't happen. _(felt like this would have been a bossy time to say Karma Isn't Real. Not sure how that would make much sense though. I'll find my next chance.)_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ambrose sucks? Blasphemy! His singles stuff has been disappointing though.

Love seeing the Paramore fan make fun of the Usos whenever the opportunity is there. They aren't anything spectacular, but they aren't downright garbage like the Powers of Pain were. It is kind of sad that they are the top face team in the tag division. We need International Airstrike as well as Air Boom to return. Bless that Evan Bourne for making Kofi Kingston interesting.

Punk/Shield would be a GOAT feud. DAT PUNK putting over the future.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It will happen.

Rollins needs to be the one to go babyface once Shield breaks up, as Ambrose & Reigns seem to be heels for life.

Rollins Vs Punk
Rollins Vs Cena
Rollins Vs Cesaro
Rollins Vs Reigns

Rollins is the fucking man. Danielson 2013 is hard to beat but Rollins has been on fire all year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea Cody idk why you dont like the usos :lol Ive started to take a liking to them. Puts a smile on my face everytime Jey uses the superkick although I do think others should stop using it as much in respect to the great one :hbk2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For as much as I can't stand Kofi, Air Boom would be a drastic improvement as the face team. Kofi's flaws are generally hidden pretty well in a duo. Bourne was the perfect partner for him. Do all the heavy lifting and it worked out 99% of the time.

Usos suck. I'll lovingly take Powers of Pain over them any day of the week; twice on Sunday. Barbarian is > and they know it. They're related, right? What am I saying, every Samoan or Pacific Islander employed by WWE are related. Usos know the truth. Day one. Fuck outta here with your obnoxious means you pair of muck savages.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> It will happen.
> 
> Rollins needs to be the one to go babyface once Shield breaks up, as Ambrose & Reigns seem to be heels for life.
> 
> ...


I would fuck my bed in markdom if this ever happens.

I'm already imagining Rollins selling the Spear.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It's weird how almost every Samoan wrestlers are related to each other. I found out recently that Roman Reigns was Rosey's brother. 

The only Samoan (that I know) that isn't related to any popular Samoan wrestler is Samoa Joe. Unless I'm forgetting somebody.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> It will happen.
> 
> Rollins needs to be the one to go babyface once Shield breaks up, as Ambrose & Reigns seem to be heels for life.
> 
> ...


You think Reigns will be heel for life? I see him as the Batista in Evolution where it'll be a slower face turn but he will get there eventually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Can't even think of Rollins vs Cesaro interactions on the indies pardon a four way elimination match. Yikes. Has this really not happened?

Wait, happened twice in ROH. Haven't seen either & I can't believe it. Well the second was on a throwaway show, but still. Ashamed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So.

Does anybody think that Orton Vs Bryan at Night of Champions can deliver?

The involvement of Orton sketches me out, but if Bryan's involved and we get a chaotic match full of nonsense, I think it could actually go well.

Del Rio Vs RVD & Dolph Vs Ambrose both do nothing for me. Also see Axel Vs Punk as insulting but strangely interesting as we're letting Axel go at it with a top guy. So I don't know, the Night of Champions card does fuck all for me at the moment to be honest, and if it fails it'll probably fall on Bryan & Punk's shoulders when it's creatives fault (in Punk's case anyways).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Truthfully, I don't. I expect the crowd to eat up aspects thanks to Danielson. Don't expect anything else. The mediocre track records isn't going to vanish b/c Danielson is still super hot in the chase, McMahons are heel aligned, & Orton is a heel himself.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No not really, their matches except for the smackdown one left alot to be desired


Is that rollin/cesaro roh any good ? Its Cesaro though. And yea fuck Ambrose


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't see how it couldn't be. I need to get on those two matches ASAP. I can say this: if WWE gets on with a Rollins vs Zayn match now or in the future, WATCH OUT. Gonna blow your mind.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I know Axel is just a placeholder feud between Lesnar and whatever Punk's next blockbuster feud is, but I just think it's rather insulting that he's been demoted so low so quickly. The only thing that would make sense from here is perhaps Punk challenging for the WHC even though I believe that he's above it at this point.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm ashamed because his father is my #3 favorite of all time and I tried to get behind him, but Axel does nothing for me besides him theme. There are literally 10 other guys that could be in that spot


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You're guess is as good as mine why WWE saw fit to throw Axel in a match with Punker, I'd almost rather him enter a three way with RVD and ADR for the WHC the go on feuding with Mark Henry or someone like that. WWE needs some more top heels and they need them badly.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Agreed, fuck Axel in all honesty. 

I don't think he's horrible or anything, he just bores the life out of me with his matches, thank god he has Heyman da gawd out there to talk for him.

Punk & Bryan are the two biggest faces in the company (John Boy's absence) while Orton & HHH occupy the top heel portion even though HHH rarely competes. Could see Punk thrown into the corporate feud to bolster the star power very soon.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't think it's that bad for Punk. He shouldn't be in a WWE title feud this soon. I know it's been 7 months since he was champion but placing him in a feud with Axel makes sense because he is a Heyman guy and it's logical for Punk to go after him now considering Brock has 'left' now. It may demote Punk but at least it can elevate Axel and most importantly, restore some credibility in the IC title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I mean, really... Who's the third biggest face the company has now that Sheamus & Cena are out? Dolph? RVD? Henry or Show?

In all honestly, ANYTHING looks like a demotion compared to Punk's last four "feuds"; Rock, Undertaker, John Cena, & Brock Lesnar... The four biggest names in the company. Feud with Heel Orton, Heel HHH, Shield, & maybe Del Rio for the WHC all make sense from here on out. Punk will have a title come XXX (or challenging) but which one will it be?

Bryan & Punk are the only two faces who are even credible threats to the WWE Championship anymore. Perhaps Punk ultimately intervenes in the feud and it results in a Punk Vs HHH or Punk Vs Orton thing?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Wrestlemania should be HHH vs Bryan and Orton representing HHH against a representative of Vince or whoever is face in the power struggle. ROCK would be a good fit but the way things are looking, he's sadly not gonna be there. Hell, have Cena be the face. :cena3 Then do Brock vs Taker and you've got three big matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think the thing is that there's going to be a face that beats Orton for the title say around TLC - Rumble time, and it'll be HHH who challenges that face for the big main event, whether it be Bryan taking the title and it leading to HHH-Bryan, or HHH-Punk, or HHH-Cena. HHH will be getting the bigger match over Orton, so why have the WWE Title overshadowed yet again ala Wrestlemania XXVIII?

THIS would make sense though;

WWE Championship - Randy Orton Vs CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan
The Streak - The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar
Triple H Vs John Cena

OR;

WWE Championship - Randy Orton Vs John Cena Vs CM Punk
The Streak - The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar
Triple H Vs Daniel Bryan

All I know is this; Cena, Punk, & Bryan are the only three possible opponents for HHH. Brock & Cena are the only possible opponents for Undertaker. That makes things easy to narrow down.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Saw a random mention of Kaval a few pages back and it compelled me to rewatch a couple of his matches that I remember really enjoying.

VS Swagger on Superstars






And VS Drew Mcintyre on Superstars (starts at the very end of part 2)











Both hold up really well and are well worth watching if you haven't before (fuck it, even if you have). It's only like 20 minutes out of your day and I'm positive you'll enjoy them at least somewhat.

I really should try and track down some old episodes of Superstars. I'm sure there are a TON of gems I've since forgotten about.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H will NOT be overshadowed by Orton, EVER. 

Triple H goes on AFTER Orton, plain and simple.

Rock & Cena are the only two who get to go on after HHH unless he's the mid card main event, which Taker usually is. That's not a shot at Orton either; HHH sees himself as bigger than everyone but Rock & Cena, on the same level as The Undertaker & Brock in terms of star power, that's evident by having all of HHH's big matches over the last two years be with Taker & Brock. HHH Vs Cena/Punk/Bryan is the only match that makes sense to co-main event or main event Wrestlemania.

If it's HHH-Cena, it's fucking going on last.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm assuming when the Shield break up Ambrose and Reigns will go their own ways as heels and Rollins will be a face. He is the best one of the 3 in the ring by far. I think Reigns has a bright future though. He is super athletic as has the makings of a future badass heel who will turn face down the road. As for Ambrose he is not great in the ring but on the mic and in promos he is money. He will get better I think. What he brings is that Jake Roberts/Piper/Pillman type promo. If WWE ever makes a movie about a serial killer Ambrose would be perfect casting. I think all 3 will do well once they break up. I hope they keep them together for awhile though.

I have a friend from Iowa who knows Lopez/Black/Rollins really well and I guess he is a major diva and toolbag. It's hard to root for him when I hear the stories I have about him. I guess he carries himself like he is Shawn Michaels in his prime. Again, just what I have heard. In the ring he is obviously talented. 


I like this for Mania.... Add something like Dolph V Sandow for the WHC and thats pretty badass....

WWE Championship - Randy Orton Vs CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan
The Streak - The Undertaker Vs Brock Lesnar
Triple H Vs John Cena


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> If it's HHH-Cena, it's fucking going on last.


Are we back in 2006? Even more of a reason for WM22 to be Rey vs HHH and Cena vs Edge.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has that Stone Cold troll made a regen already lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ambrose is a great promo, no doubt.

His ring work though? He definitely works the slowest style of the three, but he has a few problems; one being that his finisher is the worst in the company, two being that his work seems disjointed at times, and three is that he seems suited for more of an old school ECW type worker (with garbage cans and shit) rather than a clean cut guy. I don't like him in the ring AT ALL at this point, but I think he might be able to improve if he wants.

He EASILY gets smoked by Rollins & Reigns though.

I know it sucks but let's face facts here; HHH is hellbent on going last this year it seems. That's why he's the main focus of the company, that's why the only storyline that matters at the moment is the corporate storyline; we're going to get HHH going over Bryan at some point and it's going to be Punk or Cena that comes to the rescue. Hell, we may see HHH as WWE Champion after Orton loses the belt.

The belt is going from Orton to ??? to HHH to ??? at Wrestlemania XXX I'm certain. That ??? can either be Bryan, Cena, or Punk. Corporate Game as WWE Champion would be a moment I'd cherish forever though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was going to ask, although it maybe a silly question, do you guys think that Trips will get the title at some point.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

@Wilberforce

Thanks for posting the Kaval matches man. Will watch later those later.

I remember enjoying the short bout between Drew McIntyre and Kaval on Smackdown in 2010. Just fun as hell. Speaking of which, I've never watched gave a watch to Ziggler vs Kaval at Survivor Series 10. Will get on that as well.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I actually like Ambrose's finisher. He is clearly the weakest wrestler of the three though. I'm concerned that he can't put on a great singles match which could hinder his career.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Of course HHH will.

That's how we're going to get HHH Vs Cena/Punk/Bryan to blow off this corporation thing at Wrestlemania XXX next to the Brock/Taker Co Main Event.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd love to see Punk/HHH at Mania. Maybe even a retirement match and Trips puts Punk over? I know I know that probably wont happen. I actually liked the little feud they had in 2011 and the NoC match was solid I thought. I believe they can do much better though and I'd love to see those two at Mania. NOT for the title though. For control (kayfabe) of the WWE. I really don't see HHH in the title picture again but I could be wrong. I do think we will see something like this at Survivor Series.....

HHH/Orton/Sheild v Bryan/Punk/Henry/Show/ insert face here....maybe Taker?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Don't be surprised to see Bryan/HHH headline TLC and HHH going over heading into Mania season to gain himself some momentum before both move into different directions. Don't be surprised to see Cena returning to be the triumphing face while Bryan does something else.

Cena, Rock, Brock, & Taker are the only four that HHH will let go over him clean IMO. Only way Bryan wins is if HHH gets screwed by Cena or Punk which leads to THAT big match overshadowing the other. Maybe that's how Cena returns? To screw over HHH against Bryan?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh, Kaval. Meh. 

I never card for him (indies or WWE). I did like his match with Ziggler at Survivor Series i believe it was?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember leading up to Survivor Series, I was thinking how awesome it was that Daniel Bryan and Kaval were both in title matches on a Big 4 PPV. Boy, how things have changed


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ambrose can work. It's just that his style is so slow and methodical. Wrestling has reached a point where guys do triple moonsaults and get no reaction. Of course Ambrose just stomping away on someone would bore the crowd. 

Enough of the Ambrose negativity. It's time to pimp the guy out. 

Check out his match with Sami at whatever the hell that CZW show was in 2010. Keep forgetting the name

I liked his matches with Jimmy Jacobs and Bryan Danielson in DGUSA as well. He also worked some matches with Brodie Lee in Evolve and CZW. His deathmatch stuff his worth a watch too. There's this match with Brain Damage that I really liked. Not at TOD, some other show. There was a pizza cutter involved. Then there's the dog collar match with Tumbtack Jack.

The guy has some matches under his belt. I think the one with Sami Callihan is by far his best work though. Well, maybe his matches with Regal have topped it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Don't be surprised to see Bryan/HHH headline TLC and HHH going over heading into Mania season to gain himself some momentum before both move into different directions. Don't be surprised to see Cena returning to be the triumphing face while Bryan does something else.
> 
> Cena, Rock, Brock, & Taker are the only four that HHH will let go over him clean IMO. Only way Bryan wins is if HHH gets screwed by Cena or Punk which leads to THAT big match overshadowing the other. Maybe that's how Cena returns? To screw over HHH against Bryan?


All makes sense. I could see Bryan beating HHH with Cena's help at TLC. Cena will be almost ready to go by then. If Cena/HHH have a feud I dont see it being for the title. It will be for control of the WWE or something. I expect nobody else but Orton/Bryan/Punk to be WWE champ the next 6-9 months. Of course I could be wrong....who knows? HHH is at Raw every Monday so I could see him being champ.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ambrose can work. It's just that his style is so slow and methodical. Wrestling has reached a point where guys do triple moonsaults and get no reaction. Of course Ambrose just stomping away on someone would bore the crowd.
> 
> Enough of the Ambrose negativity. It's time to pimp the guy out.


No, I dig slow and methodical matches if worked right. I'm a flair mark and he only had the chop as so many point out so doing 5 flips really doesn't matter to me tbh. Ambrose wwe stuff (singles) has been very bad and left alot to be desired.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Lord Flvcko said:


> @Wilberforce
> 
> Thanks for posting the Kaval matches man. Will watch later those later.
> 
> I remember enjoying the short bout between Drew McIntyre and Kaval on Smackdown in 2010. Just fun as hell. Speaking of which, I've never watched gave a watch to Ziggler vs Kaval at Survivor Series 10. Will get on that as well.


Not a problem mate. I'd recommend that Survivor Series match aswell, really fun for what it is. Also Dolph takes a legit knee to the face. Looks pretty nasty.

I was a bit disappointed when Kaval left, I thought he could've been a good midcarder( probably nothing more). Apparently he's a complete dickhead though who can't keep his ego in check. Not sure exactly how much truth there is to that but I've seen a video of him legit knocking someone out in a match so I don't find it massively hard to believe.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On Cena/HHH... I've gotta be honest, I just don't see it. I certainly don't see it main eventing, but I also have a hard time imagining them doing the match at Mania at all. It wasn't that big of a match to warrant a rematch in the first place, and I would see Punk/Bryan for the title going on last if it happens unless they do Taker/Cena. Not to mention if Taker/Brock, Cena/HHH isn't the biggest match on the card anyway.

I don't see that rumored Mania card happening when I really think about it(Taker/Brock, Punk/Bryan for the title, and Cena/HHH). I mean when the rumor came out about this year's Mania card being Rock/Cena, Taker/Punk, and Brock/HHH, I could believe that (and it ended up happening). While I'd love to see Punk/Bryan for the WWE Title, I don't think it's that likely. Same thing for Cena/HHH. Taker/Lesnar is the only believable match of that rumored card. I'd still say the safest bet for a predicted Mania card would be Taker/Cena, Bryan/HHH for the title and Punk/Lesnar II.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> No, I dig slow and methodical matches if worked right. I'm a flair mark and he only had the chop as so many point out so doing 5 flips really doesn't matter to me tbh. Ambrose wwe stuff (singles) has been very bad and left alot to be desired.


Oh no (insert Chris Hero smiley if it existed) don't get me wrong, I agree. Ambrose singles work has sucked ass and left nothing to be desired. 

I was just speaking in general as to why maybe the average fan may not give a crap about the dude. Compare him to someone like Rollins who does also this fancy shit, it's not hard to imagine why a casual audience may take a quicker liking him instead of Ambrose. 

I'm not sure what Ambrose's problem is. I know to you he just sucks  but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe, he just hasn't found someone he could gel with. What are his singles matches thus far anyway? Kane, RVD, and I believe Christian? Two of which were DQ finishes anyway.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> On Cena/HHH... I've gotta be honest, I just don't see it. I certainly don't see it main eventing, but I also have a hard time imagining them doing the match at Mania at all. It wasn't that big of a match to warrant a rematch in the first place, and *I would see Punk/Bryan for the title going on last if it happens* unless they do Taker/Cena. Not to mention if Taker/Brock, Cena/HHH isn't the biggest match on the card anyway.


I know all about fantasy booking but are there people who genuinely believe the shit in bold?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wilberforce said:


> Not a problem mate. I'd recommend that Survivor Series match aswell, really fun for what it is. Also Dolph takes a legit knee to the face. Looks pretty nasty.
> 
> I was a bit disappointed when Kaval left, I thought he could've been a good midcarder( probably nothing more). Apparently he's a complete dickhead though who can't keep his ego in check. Not sure exactly how much truth there is to that but I've seen a video of him legit knocking someone out in a match so I don't find it massively hard to believe.


You know, I've always wondered if that shot to Ziggler was on purpose. The guy obviously has a reputation. I wouldn't put it beyond him to stiff someone just to show how tough he is cause he's Low-Ki and throws stiff kicks. He doesn't do WWE style. I mean, didn't he kick the shit out of Younger cause Younger accidentally dropped him on his head?

The guy has a reputation of being a dick head and quite frankly it's one of the few "rumours" that I can believe. He really does look like a douche. Looks like one of those guys who takes pro wrestling seriously and thinks it's some sort of legit competition. It's nice to know McMahon gave him a piece of humble pie.










Actually, come to think of it, he got to work with Laycool. Son of a bitch! Anyway, if Ian Rotten could say that someone is not going to make it then you know that person really sucks.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Skimming through this thread now and then, did someone mention Cesaro vs. Rollins. BOY lemme tell ya. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black from ROh Bluegrass Brawl. A striaght up doozy of a match that no one even talks about. Shame they never had a full on Title match where they went balls out but that one's damn good on its own. 

Kaval/Ziggler and Bryan/Dibiase from Survivor Series are both hella fun. Great undercard on that show with Sheamus/Morrison too.

Night of Champions card? I'm interested in Orton/Bryan because of Bryan but idk how good it'll truly be. Bryan will more than likely get screwed and we'll get Hell in a Cell but we'll see what happens. 

Del Rio/RVD looks AWESOME to me. Del Rio's been on a total roll with his new found viciousness so I'm highly looking forward to seeing him kick RVD in the face countless times and for Rob to oversell like no one else can. Not to mention Rob's selling of the backstabber and armbreakers. Yeah I'm lookin forward to that.

Shield vs. World's Strongest Show looks pretty awesome too. Henry/Rollins iteractions :mark:

Ambrose vs. Ziggler? Eh, Ziggler is past the US Title so I'm kinda bitter on that. Ziggler will make the match, that's obvious.

Punk vs. Axel? Will it be for the IC Title? Cause that's silly if so. Interested to see how Axel performs. He still does nothing for me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Skimming through this thread now and then, did someone mention Cesaro vs. Rollins. BOY lemme tell ya. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black from ROh Bluegrass Brawl. A striaght up doozy of a match that no one even talks about. Shame they never had a full on Title match where they went balls out but that one's damn good on its own.
> 
> Kaval/Ziggler and Bryan/Dibiase from Survivor Series are both hella fun. Great undercard on that show with Sheamus/Morrison too.
> 
> ...


Wait Ziggler/Amborse is confirmed or speculation? If that really happens, maybe Ambrose can finally have a good match.

And I don't know why people are bitching about Punk/Axel. Hey, if Cena never dropped to Punk's level in 2011 we'd never have Punk being the star that he is. Yeah, I said it. If anyone thinks that Punk was a legit player in the WWE prior to his feud with Cena you have your head buried way too far up the man's ass. Heck, I would say Punk only became a HUGE star this year alone.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Wait Ziggler/Amborse is confirmed or speculation? If that really happens, maybe Ambrose can finally have a good match.
> 
> And I don't know why people are bitching about Punk/Axel. Hey, if Cena never dropped to Punk's level in 2011 we'd never have Punk being the star that he is. Yeah, I said it. If anyone thinks that Punk was a legit player in the WWE prior to his feud with Cena you have your head buried way too far up the man's ass. Heck, I would say Punk only became a HUGE star this year alone.


Speculation as of now but I expect it to happen.

I'm not really sure what you mean by the other paragraph though. I know you're saying Punk will make Axel a star like Cena did for Punk but it's kinda backwards to go from losing to Lesnar and then facing Axel at the next PPV and the point doesn't really apply to this. And if it _is _for the IC Title it'd be really odd for anyone to expect a win from Punk. If he does I just expect him to lose it back on RAW. That match is speculation too btw.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Speculation as of now but I expect it to happen.
> 
> I'm not really sure what you mean by the other paragraph though. I know you're saying Punk will make Axel a star like Cena did for Punk but it's kinda backwards to go from losing to Lesnar and then facing Axel at the next PPV and the point doesn't really apply to this. And if it _is _for the IC Title it'd be really odd for anyone to expect a win from Punk. If he does I just expect him to lose it back on RAW. That match is speculation too btw.


I just think wrestling fans make a big deal out of nothing. This sort of stuff is what happens in wrestling. Cena being at the top for so long has brainwashed us all. We've forgotten how wrestling works. Look at Jericho. Went from World Champion in '08 to feuding with Rey for the IC title in '09. Heck, Jericho even did a PPV match with Evan Bourne for the hell of it. And lost. 

I know Punk's 99% of this forum board (including me) and people wanna see him in the main event 24/7. But fact is, this is the next best thing. He fits nowhere in the title picture.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> I just think wrestling fans make a big deal out of nothing. This sort of stuff is what happens in wrestling. Cena being at the top for so long has brainwashed us all. We've forgotten how wrestling works. Look at Jericho. Went from World Champion in '08 to feuding with Rey for the IC title in '09. Heck, Jericho even did a PPV match with Evan Bourne for the hell of it. And lost.
> 
> I know Punk's 99% of this forum board (including me) and people wanna see him in the main event 24/7. But fact is, this is the next best thing. He fits nowhere in the title picture.


I guess you're just directing that towards other people in here cause I never mentioned any title picture for Punk.  I too understand this is the next best thing for him to continue his issue with Heyman and don't think he'll be back in the title picture for a while. 

Jericho puts everyone over for the hell of it.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 falls is LEGIT. It's my MOTY, I don't even care


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

greendayedgehead said:


> Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 falls is LEGIT. It's my MOTY, I don't even care







Sorry, first thing I thought of when I read that you don't care.

I have Cesaro/Zayn at ****, maybe ****1/4. Still, there's a lot of other great matches I'd rank above it. Damn, 2013 has been such a great year. Numerous ****+ matches, most of them on FREE TV.

Btw, long time no see. Either that or I've not been very observant as to who's posting on here anymore lol.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Yeah, that's true I haven't posted in here in a very long time. Can't think why.


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

This probably sounds horrible but Booker T getting hurt in December 2005 is the best thing that could have happened. I say this because of the awesome matches we got between Chris Benoit and Randy Orton, since Booker chose RKO as his substitute to compete in the best of seven series against Benoit for the U.S title. 

Match 7 is probably the best of the whole series, but you can't go wrong with match 5or 6 either. This also led to the incredible No Holds Barred match between the two as well. Chemistry between Orton and Benoit was off the charts. Shame these matches will never see the light of day on any kind of DVD/Blu-Ray compilation.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Homer lemar said:


> 2013 is just a good year no a great but cause randy orton heel turn and reign and stone cold returns this year could be become the greatest wwe pg era years.


What?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> I know all about fantasy booking but are there people who genuinely believe the shit in bold?


Like it or not, that _shit_ is very possible and believable. They're easily the two most over faces in the company right now (and they're both VERY over at that), and come Mania, with HHH now a heel and Rock not being around, only face that could make a claim for being more over is Taker. Bryan is on hot streak and if that continues into Mania, culminating with a WWE Title match with either Punk, Cena, or HHH, no matter what other match there is (even Taker/Cena or Rock/Brock), that title match will main event (this is assuming Bryan doesn't face any of them one-on-one from here until that point).

And I'm not saying it's the biggest match on the card. It would definitely be behind Taker/Lesnar, and then probably behind Cena/HHH unless they don't have any implications for the corporation in that match if HHH loses. However, Punk/Bryan for the WWE Title could very well close Mania based on their overness and current star power. Could they sell Mania on their own though? No, of course not.

However as I mentioned, I don't really think that's going to happen anyway, because chances are they'll want Bryan to have the biggest WWE Title match he can and finish off the Corporation with a big victory over HHH. And then Taker/Cena and Punk/Lesnar II fall right into place.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Orton vs. Bryan? And we have it, a fresh main event. Pretty amped for it seeing as how both are such consistent workers and always work well together. Very much enjoyed their previous series, especially the No DQ main event where Bryan got a clean submission victory over him. Match should be another fun one and it's got a lot more on the line than just a "weak link" angle...

Del Rio vs. RVD? Sounds wonderful to me. Really feel Del Rio's stepped it up big time in the ring since that flawless double turn at Payback. RVD has actually been motivated since returning and has been putting on good performances. Bummed out Christian's out of the title picture though...

Axel vs. Punk? You've got to be kidding me. Punk deserves better than feuding with a real-life CAW for the Jobber Championship. Axel has been less interesting to me as watching paint dry. What a stinker this will be.

Reigns & Rollins vs. Show & Henry? I'm down. Marking at just the thought of the interactions between Rollins and Henry! Just praying Shield go over because the last thing we need is to suffer from another Show burial. Got a call from Straight Edge Society, Corre, Rhodes, etc and they all agree with me.

Ambrose vs. Ziggler? Oh heavens yes! Match will rule so, so much. Looking real forward to this one, although I think Ziggler's past the United States Championship.

Honestly wouldn't mind seeing AJ vs. Kaitlyn one last time. These two have produced some of the best divas matches in years, and have developed superb chemistry. If not, then I'm all for AJ vs. Natalya in what would be a splendid match as well.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm hoping Heath Slater gets the push he deserves and main events Mania. Southern boy makes good comes home and wins the title in a triple threat with Cena and Orton. Balloons and streamers fall end of show! 

BOOK IT!


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I'm hoping Heath Slater gets the push he deserves and main events Mania. Southern boy makes good comes home and wins the title in a triple threat with Cena and Orton. Balloons and streamers fall end of show!
> 
> BOOK IT!


Holy shit, things are starting to get out of hand around here lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Pretty sure punk//bryan is in the realm of possibility so its not a "shitty" idea

HHH/FOLEY SERIES

FCA 97 *** 1/2
rr 00 **** 1/2

Ok it took me a while but I finally see what so good about hhh/foley rumble. Its just one of those matches that your eyes are glued to the tv/laptop when watching. Its brutal, psychology is great and the crowd was hot. I think its safe to say its Hunter's best match.

I need to watch their others, Foley is one of the best worker ever, dont give me he's not a great WRASSTLER shit


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I'm hoping Heath Slater gets the push he deserves and main events Mania. Southern boy makes good comes home and wins the title in a triple threat with Curtis Axel and The Miz. Balloons and streamers fall end of show!
> 
> BOOK IT!


Fixed.

And to go with the Night of Champions discussion, how is Detroit as a crowd? I don't remember them being notable one way or the other.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Pretty sure punk//bryan is in the realm of possibility so its not a "shitty" idea
> 
> HHH/FOLEY SERIES
> 
> ...


I probably like the HIAC match as much as the Rumble match if i'm honest.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I probably like the HIAC match as much as the Rumble match if i'm honest.


Same here. I think I might even go the full 5 on both RR and No Way Out/HiaC matches with HHH/Foley. Loved them both. 

I've said this before but a best of No Way Out compilation would be great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha actually me three, I prefered the HIAC as well, I'll see how it holds up


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Considering how 2013 is a year of miracles, was(were) there a great match(es hopefully) on SMS this year?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Same here. I think I might even go the full 5 on both RR and No Way Out/HiaC matches with HHH/Foley. Loved them both.
> 
> I've said this before but a best of No Way Out compilation would be great.


I have the RR at the full ***** and the NWO match at ****1/2. Both were brilliant, I just happen to think the RR match was PERFECT. I wouldn't change anything about it, it's pure Foley goodness. Foley MADE triple H, I don't care what the biggest HHH fan boy says, he would never have been considered a legit bad ass and threat if he hadn't mixed it up with the Micker. And for that matter, yes Orton is supremely talented and prolly would have done well anyway, but Foley made Orton with that ***** BacklAsh match in 04'. Even Randy admits as much, and says its the best match he's ever had in the interview with the author for "MY FAVORITE MATCH". Foley was also Austin's first opponent after winning the title at Mania 14, and the matches they had including Over the Edge gave Austin a great boost and an even greater opponent immediately after becoming champ, which is always important. Foley also made Rocky out to be a vicious bad ass with their I Quit match. Basically, every person who's ever gotten in the ring with Foley has been better for it, not to many other superstars you can say that about with the exception of Ric Flair and Undertaker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Detroit is a good crowd. Very underappreciated.

If anybody is in the mood for a project, they should watch as many mid-90s Too Cold Scorpio as possible.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I was hoping with the new Foley set we would get commentary on the HHH/Foley HiaC match. Just adore that match. Everyone talks about HiaC with Undertaker but this bump looks painful as fuuuuuuuck.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anybody else remember The Rock even being here? I don't care what anyone says, imo, when The Rock left the product got so much better. I mean, there was always the great TV matches but storyline wise The Rock leaving was the best thing. What the hell was the point of The Rock anyway? God, there's only so much times you can spike a buyrate. The guy did absolutely nothing newsworthy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I was hoping with the new Foley set we would get commentary on the HHH/Foley HiaC match. Just adore that match. Everyone talks about HiaC with Undertaker but this bump looks painful as fuuuuuuuck.



Foley talks about that bump in his book "Foley is Good", he says it knocked the wind out of him but otherwise he was fine. That man is indestructible, if I took that bump I'd have to be hospitalized for weeks while hooked up to a colostomy bag :lmao

If there is one wrestler that I think doesn't get nearly the respect he deserves as a performer, it's Foley. I mean WWE ranked him #32 on their list of 50 Greatest Superstars ever, while Triple H was in the top 10.....I mean that doesn't strike you as a horrible injustice? Just because Haitch has longevity on his side does not mean he automatically leaps to top 10, I mean Eddie was only around for 5 years max and he (rightfully) got a top 10 spot alongside Mysterio. I know you guys in this thread generally appreciate Foley, I just hope the casuals realize how great, unique, and special Foley was. He was a complete original, just like The Undertaker and Rey Mysterio. We will see another 10 wrestlers who are similar to Triple H, we will never see anyone like Foley ever again. It's a damn shame too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/Foley feud is one of those feuds where you saw both men looked stronger and no one lost. The ending of the I Quit match showed how hardcore Foley was and also introduced a new vicious and brutal side of the Rock's heel character and technically, Foley never quit. Then you had the LMS match where it ended as a draw.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Homer lemar said:


> What the problem?In interview stone cold say he's in a good shape.


What?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> What?


 Ignore him, he is a troll.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've been skimming over the past few pages (or, however many pages it's been since we were talking about Sting), and I'll say it - I like the Usos more than Ambrose. Kind...pretty easily, actually. 


And no shit I'd rather Heath Slater get a shot at the main event than Orton right now. I. Am. Not. Kidding.


I'm pretty sure this new dude is the Bruno guy who was an Austin nut that probably got banned. Or we have two of them now. Greaaaaaaaaat.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Does anybody else remember The Rock even being here? I don't care what anyone says, imo, when The Rock left the product got so much better. I mean, there was always the great TV matches but storyline wise The Rock leaving was the best thing. What the hell was the point of The Rock anyway? God, there's only so much times you can spike a buyrate. The guy did absolutely nothing newsworthy.


Hes done some newsworthy stuff. So of course everyone remembers him being here. No one is going to forget. The Rock leaving didn't mean the product just all of a sudden got better. It was a mere coincidence and WWE stepped up right when he was out the door. Lets not make it seem like Rock was in the way of the overall show and how things are being booked. Especially year round. Rock's only purpose was to have a nostalgic run/closure to his career. Let him live. Some folks liked/ went crazy over it it, some folks bitch whined and complained about it. Whatever. It is what it is. Even as a fan, Im glad hes gone because people have got to the point where they let the flaws of the past few years cloud their judgment over his entire career.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> Ignore him, he is a troll.


Haha I know. I'm WHATing him cuz he is an Austin fan. Not funny I know.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

forgot today was is the 11th anniversary of SummerSlam 2002.

Great PPV from Top to Bottom which the PPV closed with one of my favorite moments:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

JY57 said:


> forgot today was is the 11th anniversary of SummerSlam 2002.
> 
> Great PPV from Top to Bottom which close to one of my favorite moments:


Not a better card ever I dont think.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Haha I know. I'm WHATing him cuz he is an Austin fan. Not funny I know.


 Forgive me, I just noticed the reference now


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

*CM Punk vs Mark Henry - NODQ Match: ****1/4*
Okay this was just incredible. Their chimestry is scary good. Awesome storytelling and Henry was a boss. Wish the second match was a real match but nonetheless - great little series between them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I wish the WWE would run mini-feuds like Rock/Hurricane and Punk/Henry more often in the middle of bigger feuds. There's one going on with Bryan/Barrett, but it would be nice to see some more. Perhaps Orton/Regal?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I wish the WWE would run mini-feuds like Rock/Hurricane and Punk/Henry more often in the middle of bigger feuds. There's one going on with Bryan/Barrett, but it would be nice to see some more. Perhaps Orton/Regal?


Agreed. With 3 hours you think we'd see more of this on Raw. In 2014 if/When Henry turns heel again I hope he gets back in the title hunt against Bryan and/or Punk.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Agreed. With 3 hours you think we'd see more of this on Raw. In 2014 if/When Henry turns heel again I hope he gets back in the title hunt against Bryan and/or Punk.


 I really thought he would have won the title against Cena this year. In hindsight, it's a good thing it didn't happened because of what happened at Summerslam and Cena just looked even stronger which made Bryan's victory feel more special and important. He beat a guy who had won matches against Ziggler (who was still a threat in early 2013), Punk, Rock, Ryback and Henry. Not to mention that he also won the Rumble. 

Henry did say that he wants to win the belt before he retires because it'll put him right up with the best big man workers in WWE history.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I wish the WWE would run mini-feuds like Rock/Hurricane and Punk/Henry more often in the middle of bigger feuds. There's one going on with Bryan/Barrett, but it would be nice to see some more. Perhaps Orton/Regal?


Orton/Regal would be nice. They had a 5 minute match in 2008 which was great, if only they'd get 12-15 minutes, could be one of Orton's best matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Taker vs Angle No Way Out 2006. I cannot believe I never saw this match. I don't know what rock I've been living under but I'm so glad I finally got to see it.

Angle works Takers leg throughout most of the match to set up the Ankle lock, and man does Taker sell it well. Nobody sells a limb injury like Taker, and I mean no one. Nothing will take me out of the match faster than a guy no selling a limb injury after spending an entire match having that limb worked. Taker is in a class all his own when it comes to sell, just like Angle is in a class all his own when it comes to technical wrestling. These two styles meshed beautifully, and the match they created was wholly unique and exciting. Some people get mad about Angle spamming the Ankle Lock in his matches, I however have no problem with it if its done correctly, as it was here. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense for a wrestler like Angle to constantly be going for his best submission whenever he sees an opening for it. He's had more success with the Ankle lock than with any other move, so it's almost a case where it would be poor psychology for him to have an opening and go with a different submission/move instead. I really love what these two did here, and I would have to rate it as Angles second or third best match ever, behind only Mania against HBK and MAYBE Austin at SummerSlam and Brock at Summerslam. I dunno for sure I'd have to rewatch them all, but o have this match at a solid ****1/2, the same rating I gave his SS matches against Austin and Brock, Mania with HbK gets ****3/4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Always liked Henry and respected him but after that Rosenberg interview I really want him to win the WWE title someday.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Always liked Henry and respected him but after that Rosenberg interview I really want him to win the WWE title someday.


Agreed. I was riveted the entire time watching that interview. I will be honest, I didn't become a full fledged fan of Henry's until about 2010, but I DID always respect him. Now I consider him to be among the top 5 big men workers in the history of the WWE. I'm dying to see him work with Ziggler, them after that I'd like to see him enter the WWE title picture after this corporate stuff blows off at Mania, maybe against Punker because those two just kill it every time they are in the ring together. I'd really like to see him against Cesaro as well. He just brings the best out of whomever he is in the ring with, and really, you can't ask for more out of a performer than that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Random thoughts:

Rollins doesn't touch Bryan or Cesaro this year, like at all. He's a fun bumper and adds a lot to the Shield matches, but the strength in those matches is the booking and presentation of them as a unit. No individual of the three generally out-performs the other in matches, it's more to do with the cohesion and unity they display rather than one worker carrying the rest. Rollins obviously garners more attention as the lunatic bumper, but he's had one showcase singles match vs Bryan on Raw and I thought that wasn't even scratching the surface of what a Bryan/Rollins match could be. Once he goes face, based off his FCW work he could be a big player worker wise, but for now Bryan & Cesaro are in a whole other world.

Ambrose can work, but he requires longer matches and specifically compelling angles to shine. The Regal series was perfect because they could play up numerous aspects and intricacies stemming from the feud which is where Ambrose shines as the twisted and perverse sleazebag. You can't stick him in undeveloped singles matches and expect him to work wonders, because from a technical standpoint he's lacking greatly and really it's his character work and selling that are his strongpoints.

Punk/Axel @ NOC is fine. It's a continuation of the Punk/Heyman feud which at this point I welcome and is an opportunity to further showcase Axel who they seem intent on giving a rub to. Punk is in no danger of stagnating from this feud and given Bryan/Orton likely having a screwy finish I can easily see this being an interim feud before Punk wrestles for the title whilst Bryan fights off McMahon apologists.

Heath Slater is fun as fuck. I came across his selling of the KO punch by Big Show @ Wrestlemania 27 again and it was truly glorious. He is the perfect midcard antagonist everyone despises and who could easily be a multiple time IC/US Champion whilst also working short programs with more established babyfaces and getting his arse kicked.

I think there's a Raw show in Chicago either the night after NOC or the week after. Either way I expect Bryan to be overwhelmed by interference @ NOC but hopefully if they build to it, him eventually gaining the upperhand during that Chicago RAW could be a great moment given how over he'll be in that demographic. They need to find a good balance between highlighting his predicament whilst giving him wins in the ring and during promos so the fans can become fully immersed in the storyline. A babyface who dominates too much suffers because it's hard to effectively build a program around them looking vulnerable, whilst a babyface who gets their arse kicked too much risks losing support because at the end of the days fans want to cheer someone who comes out on top.

Punk/Henry would be a welcome rematch down the line if and when Henry turns again. They've got one of the strongest chemistry available to the roster at the moment.

The Uso's are solid but generally uninspiring. They really need a more dynamic and interesting FIP as they've got a decent hot tag in them, but WWE tag matches really do suffer currently because the STF is being diluted and heels no longer work southern schtick and sequences to gain heat and bar the big Shield tags, there's very few memorable FIP spells in the current tag format. 

However, The Uso's doing the Haka and effectively summoning Mark Henry at the conclusion with it immediately cutting to his music was fantastic.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

A cock made of wool still sounds itchy to me.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It's good for insulation and given the Welsh weather that's an absolute godsend.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

WOOLCOCK said:


> It's good for insulation and given the Welsh weather that's an absolute godsend.


duly noted kind sir....good write up


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sandow needs to cash in so I can care about the WHC again. I'm sick of having ADR suck the life out of the belt. I would take nearly anyone over him right now. It's worse now since Ziggler made me care then they just continued on with ADR boring the crap out of me again.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sandow's likely not winning it until Del Rio loses it, and even then it's not a given that he automatically cashes it in as soon as Del Rio drops it. Could be a while on that. I'd also like to see Sandow win it, but I also like Del Rio, so I'm cool for now. 

I'm most interested to see where Punk goes. We know the main event scene is like for a while, but how long does Punk stay away from it? I think I missed a long discussion on this topic a number of pages back, so maybe I'll try to catch up on that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Just give Cesaro the world title and let him work 15 minute+ matches on PPV. I mean, it's not even at the level of the IC Title during Steamboat, Savage & Hennig's era and really is more of a glorified placeholder title to try and add legitimacy to the champion despite booking and storylines being mundane and uninteresting and only serving to illustrate the growing disparency between the WWE Champion & the World Champion.

Cesaro is woefully undeveloped as a character and personality sadly, but so is Del Rio and if they're deadset on having the World Title be more of a wrestling heavy title with minimal storylines and interesting programs then Cesaro is the perfect champion since it would play to his strengths and avoid the pitfalls of the current iteration of his character being unsuitable for the main event until it can be tweaked.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Ugh. Del Rio has been on point this year and one of the brighter spots post heel turn, but I still don't give a fuck about him in the slightest and I feel that perhaps another Punk feud could be in the works where he drops the belt maybe if they wanna keep Punk away from the WWE Title? Because the only Punk options at Mania XXX are the following;

WWE Title Match
World Heavyweight Title Match
Non Title Match w/HHH or Brock

The dream match for me would obviously be HHH Vs Punk for the WWE Championship in the main event, but that's not going to happen. It's like OKAY WWE, your main guys are Brock/Cena/HHH/Punk/Taker/Bryan/Orton .... Take those seven guys and just RUN with it and create the best matches possible. No doubt Lesnar/Taker would steal the show no matter what else is on the card though, those boys are just...

DAMN.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Gonna rewatch the HIAC match between Sheamus and Show now. Haven't seen it since it happened and I need some Sheamus since he'll be away for a while.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Because the only Punk options at Mania XXX are the following;
> 
> WWE Title Match
> World Heavyweight Title Match
> Non Title Match w/HHH or Brock


Did you read his contract which stated that?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Honestly unless someone like punk or Brock win tge WHC ill care about it. I don't even care for ziggler winning the belt ATM the belt is lower than the tag


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Just give Cesaro the world title and let him work 15 minute+ matches on PPV. I mean, it's not even at the level of the IC Title during Steamboat, Savage & Hennig's era and really is more of a glorified placeholder title to try and add legitimacy to the champion despite booking and storylines being mundane and uninteresting and only serving to illustrate the growing disparency between the WWE Champion & the World Champion.
> 
> Cesaro is woefully undeveloped as a character and personality sadly, but so is Del Rio and if they're deadset on having the World Title be more of a wrestling heavy title with minimal storylines and interesting programs then Cesaro is the perfect champion since it would play to his strengths and avoid the pitfalls of the current iteration of his character being unsuitable for the main event until it can be tweaked.



Dude you're telling me....I've had this exact thought atleast a dozen times the past few months. I wish they would just drop the WWE title all together and have the Big Gold Belt represent the highest title like it was when Triple H, HBK, and Benoit had it. Then drop the US title and just roll with the IC, Tag, and World Title as the belts. They could still call it the WWE Championship i just think the world title looks so classy, itd be a shame for it to dissapear. Plus having a unification match could do big business at a PPV. Strap the I.C title on Cesaro and have him join Heymans stable and bada boom bada bing feud with Punk. There is not enough main event level talent to support all these titles, I feel like if you give Cesaro a nice long run with the IC title and give him a chance to develop his own character, we might be able to go back to the Hennig/Hart days when that belt meant something. If I were Pat Patterson I wouldn't want my name to be associated with the IC title anymore, they've just killed the meaning of it. Rhodes was the only IC title holder I've given the slightest fuck about since Mysterio and Jericho feuded over it 4 years ago. Speaking of that, how dope would a Rhodes vs Cesaro feud be? If you give them 20 minutes at a PPV, that's a match GUARUNTEED to steal the show. I just hate hate hate how all the titles are used other than the WWE title (post Miz and ADR that is).


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

WWE title will never be abandoned for the World title. It's the company title and ever since HHH took the belt to Raw it's been clearly programmed as the clear cut de facto number one title in the company. Realistically you could argue that decision was made the minute they drafted Batista to Smackdown and positioned Cena as WWE Champion on the flagship show, although it's only been post '10 that the World Title has really diminished in terms of general storylines and programs.

Cesaro/Bourne in any iteration would be fantastic whenever Bourne returns. It's a shame he's a tosspot backstage because as a worker there really is nobody better aside from Generico to eventually replace Mysterio as the high flying sensation. He's a great all round worker as well as he times his hope spots and comebacks perfectly and bumps better than anyone in the company imo, but sadly his demeanour backstage and injury woes have robbed him of a consistent run on TV and seemingly lost him faith with management.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm really missing Sheamus. Didn't think I would be, but his matches were generally a solid part of the night. I'm a big fan of the current state of the storylines, but I never realized how entertaining I found him.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Wouldn't be against a character repackage for Evan Bourne. He's been gone for a really long time, and isn't all that over with the crowd as is.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I use to be very critical of Sheamus and I'm still not a fan but the guy is a hell of a worker and better than I give him credit for. His match with Bryan at Extreme Rules is money.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'm really missing Sheamus. Didn't think I would be, but his matches were generally a solid part of the night. I'm a big fan of the current state of the storylines, but I never realized how entertaining I found him.


Yeah, he's absolutely awesome and probably one of the only redeeming factors of 2012 for me. Even his character has been funny to me despite what everybody says. I admit he's been unbearable at times like during the Mark Henry feud but I've found his jokes funny elsewhere like the one about Brian Boru when he had turned face in 2011 as well as the whole debate segment with Big Show. ("Rey Mysterio Sullivan" :lol) He's an absolute workhorse who doesn't get the credit he deserves.

Just finished the HIAC match with Show and it help up pretty well. ★★★★.

THE BARBARIC SHEAMUS!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sheamus/Show was totally the match of the night and a great match. That PPV was awful except for that one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That PPV was pretty weak, but it did have Gabriel/Cesaro, Orton/ADR, and Punk/Ryback which all have redeemable qualities. Also, DAT BUYRATE :ryback unk2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've only watched Show/Sheamus (great) and Orton/ADR (good) from that PPV. It'll probably stay that way forever. Would have watched the main event because I had interest in Ryback at the time, but I woke up the next day only to see that Punk retained with ref's help so I doubt I'll ever bother with it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Punk/Ryback wasn't as God awful as I thought it would be. Punk was such a great prick heel and Ryback came out of it looking like a beastly babyface. So much for that.....


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I love that Cesaro/Gabriel match, despite it being short. Hidden gem, imo.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye said:


> I love that Cesaro/Gabriel match, despite it being short. Hidden gem, imo.


I don't remember that one. I was drunk and hitting on (unsuccessfully) a hot girl at the bar I go to sometimes for PPVs. Only a $5 cover....can't beat that shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm definitely adding Sheamus to the list that includes Edge, Batista, and Christian (formerly, he's obviously back now) of guys you missed once they were gone. I've always thought a lot of Sheamus work but never cared for the character so I didn't really invest in him, same as the other guys on that list. But once they are gone you realize they really did add something to the show and wish they would come back. I'm wondering I'd Cena will actually be off camera long enough for that to happen (doubt it seriously).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Batista I miss as a heel but not as a face.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Batista is one of the many reasons why I took a hiatus as well as why 2005 wasn't that good of a year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I always liked the Cesaro/Ryder (which show was that?) squash better than the Cesaro/Gabriel one (tbh IDK which show that was at either).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You guys can say what you want about him, but he did have some great matches with Taker (mania, lms) Triple H(hiac) and Eddie. And 1 of his matches with Edge wasnt bad. Who would you rather have, Ryback or Batista? Come on, I'm not a huge fan of his by any stretch of the imagination but he did add something, and him coming out in a wheel chair and quitting in 2010 was just great in my mind. He was a pretty good heel, I enjoyed a lot of his stuff, I gotta be honest.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I don't miss Sheamus. His cheesy character prevents me from caring about him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista could have horrible matches quite a lot of the time but he's somebody I'd love to have in the roster because when he was on his game, the matches would be great. He also had the physical charisma and could create some funny memes with some of his one liners.

:batista3


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I know we talked about Brian Pillman yesterday but Bad Blood 1997 is so hard to watch. Vince announces his death at the start of the show and then updates the audience that there is a possible case of drug overdose. He also mentions on commentary that two of the matches were added late only due to Pillman's untimely death. 

It's weird that the very next PPV also has a real life incident taking place and that's the infamous Monreal screwjob.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Batista could have horrible matches quite a lot of the time but he's somebody I'd love to have in the roster because when he was on his game, the matches would be great. He also had the physical charisma and could create some funny memes with some of his one liners.
> 
> :batista3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Batista is one of the many reasons why I took a hiatus *as well as why 2005 wasn't that good of a year.*


Now THAT'S an unpopular opinion.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Yeah, I like me some Big Dave and I love 2005.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I loved 2005. Thought Batista's best year was '07 or maybe '08 though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

2005 was the last truly great year.

Such a deep roster with so many quality matches. 

And so many AWESOME feuds.

Batista/HHH
Eddie/Rey
Angle/HBK
Orton/Taker
JBL/Cena
Hardy/Edge
Flair/HHH
Smackdown/Raw
Hogan/HBK
Hassan/World


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hassan/World is the GOAT feud. Hassan had the greatest gimmick of all-time. First guy to ever make me boo The Undertaker and Chris Jericho. Curse the television stuff from that year. I am honestly shocked that 2005 is held in such high regard today. Back in 2005, people hated it even more than folks hate the PG era right now, and considering how frustrating things were in 2005, I don't blame them. Once again though, I will give it credit for having the GOAT feud with the greatest gimmick of all-time.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Hassan was a victim of circumstance. If anyone is the blame, it's those idiots at UPN who didn't edit the footage of the whole attack on Undertaker off Smackdown. WWE was getting bad publicity because of it and UPN told them that they didn't want Hassan on their station which lead to his character being stopped and eventually released.

Mark Copani is still only 31 and is currently wrestling again in the indies.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which one would that feud be?

And I don't get the complaint about the TV stuff _yet_. There were quality matches constantly, Raw was great from the start up until SummerSlam, then it worsened a bit after Jericho left up until Homecoming when the Raw/SD feud started. Smackdown slightly improved in the first half after 2004 but then picked up big time with Eddie's heel turn and the post-draft stuff as they received Benoit and Orton. With that said, Muhammad Hassan is such a waste. Awesome gimmick and awesome mic skills. That debate with JR and Lawler is golden.






EDIT: If anyone deserves the blame, it's not UPN. It's WWE for adding that needless terrorist element into his character. His gimmick was about being unjustly victimized for the terrorism of other middle-easterns but in the end, they decided to make him just like them with the whole "sacrifice" and skimask men.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

They didn't even let him explain his actions as to who the masked men were though. Maybe they were just goons he hired to help him even the odds with Taker. It was done a million times in the past, Hassan just did it a little differently.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I thought he retired from wrestling and became a school teacher? 

Anyway, this gimmick came about when I thought wrestling was real and I really hated this guy back then (I remember marking out when everyone teamed up on him at the Royal Rumble). Of course looking back at it now (and I can relate myself to this as I am from the Middle East myself), it was a genius gimmick that sadly became too controversial. They took it away too far with his character and it would have fine if it was just about Americans being too stereotypicals of Arab but the angle with Taker went too far, IMO.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

You know, Trips/Edge from GAB 2008 is a pretty good match. Not more than ***1/2-3/4, but still had some quality to it. Good work by Edge on the ribs; good selling from Triple H. The story was ridiculous with Trips interrupting Edge/Vickie's wedding and showing the video of Edge/Alicia. Then of course the fuckery at the end of the match. 

Trips/Khali at Summerslam, though. :kenny


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

iwatchwrestling said:


> You know, Trips/Edge from GAB 2008 is a pretty good match. Not more than ***1/2-3/4, but still had some quality to it. Good work by Edge on the ribs; good selling from Triple H. The story was ridiculous with Trips interrupting Edge/Vickie's wedding and showing the video of Edge/Alicia. Then of course the fuckery at the end of the match.
> 
> Trips/Khali at Summerslam, though. :kenny


It was a good match but I can't believe they never were involved in a lengthy singles feud. At the time I would have though they would be a lock for a big feud, maybe if Wrestlemania Main event big.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GAB '08 as a whole goes wayyy under the radar. Hardy/Shelton, the forgotten HBK/Jericho match, Cena/JBL Parking Lot Brawl, Punk/Batista, & HHH/Edge. Two main events that deserved much bigger treatment.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jericho/HBK from GAB is the best match of their series.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge might be the biggest missed opportunity for a feud by HHH. I mean a real feud. There was no reason for it not to happen. Only things I could think of are maybe egos/bitterness backstage between them... but even then after seeing HHH come out during Edge's retirement, I think those may be greatly exaggerated (or they got past their personal differences and became friends). But it was definitely a big missed opportunity for HHH, and as I said, maybe the biggest. I mean HHH didn't really have a proper feud with Hogan either... but again, that's the only one I could think of. Lesnar was probably the biggest one to have never feuded with HHH at all... and after seeing their feud I kinda wish it remained that way, but that's not the case anymore.

I went to that GAB 08 show. Jericho/HBK match is probably the worst in their series. Edge/HHH was good but that's about it. Punk/Batista... don't remember the match at all. Cena/JBL was just... I don't even know. I marked for JBL winning though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Jericho/HBK from GAB is the best match of their series.


Better than No Mercy? :bosh

Hey man to each their own.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah. I liked the ladder match, but the story at the GAB is fucking awesome. Jericho was at the beginning of his terrific heel run and Shawn's selling is damn perfect.

GAB
No Mercy
Judgment Day
Unforgiven

In that order.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So I just saw something very disturbing on cagematch.net

...

Taker is 0-1 against HORNSWOGGLE. :taker 

Edit: Upon further inspection, the only match they were together in was RR 08, and because Taker lost that, I guess that counts as a loss against him and anyone else in that match and as such, he really didn't lose to Hornswoggle.

Crisis averted.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

It's obvious Taker is overrated. Never beat Warrior or Hornswoggle. I mean he hasn't been a champion for how long? When was the last time he made a movie as good as the Rock? :agree:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> It's obvious Taker is overrated. Never beat Warrior or Hornswoggle. I mean he hasn't been a champion for how long? When was the last time he made a movie as good as the Rock? :agree:


agreed. taker sucks


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Undefeated at Mania, but 0-1 against Hornswoggle, huh? :vince5


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Hornswaggle to beat the streak


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H vs Great Khali from SummerSlam rapes Jericho vs Michaels from GAB. The latter was pretty crummy, tbhayley. I like the excuse on the Khali match though. You never hear any justification for it being bad other than "well Khali was in it." So. Triple H was too and he sucks most of the time. Match worked. Surprisingly well. The simplistic formula is an absolute blast. Not one portion of that match was there an aspect that made you want to shut your eyes b/c it was some form of an eyesore like you would originally think. Working that structure in 2008 - how dare they, I guess. Where as Jericho vs Michaels wasn't anything to talk about. Oh look he's bleeding. Whoop-de-do. Match is incredibly flat and had no points where it popped or peaked like the majority of their other work. Give me the simple surprise over the "workrate guys" having a better match just b/c mentality.

And Muhammad Hassan's gimmick isn't groundbreaking. Good for him having the heat he did, but that's America for ya. Doesn't take much to get a rise out of them if you slam them and you're the minority whom is painted as the villain at the time. Same gimmick happened in the 70's & 80's with Ivan Koloff & Nikolai Volkoff.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Maybe it says something about my hate for Edge but I would honestly be surprised if HHH/Edge is better than HHH/Khali. At least Truip is interesting against your big guys like Show. An Edge/HHH match is like the most generic, phony and average wrestling I can picture from two main eventers. I'll eat my words if I watch HHH/edge matches and wind up liking them. Seriously, I'll quote this post and call myself a shitface for being too pessimistic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually did like the HHH vs Edge match from GAB, although I'd prefer HHH vs Khali. You know what match is forgotten in 2008 and is really good though? Batista & Kane vs Khali & MVP - Smackdown 2/29/08. Wrote a piece on it in here. Was lost in the shuffle b/c it had some crappy names in it. Didn't surprise me there. Def needs to be seen. MVP's best work of that year. Bar friggin none.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Triple H vs Great Khali from SummerSlam rapes Jericho vs Michaels from GAB. The latter was pretty crummy, tbhayley. I like the excuse on the Khali match though. You never hear any justification for it being bad other than "well Khali was in it." So. Triple H was too and he sucks most of the time. Match worked. Surprisingly well. The simplistic formula is an absolute blast. Not one portion of that match was there an aspect that made you want to shut your eyes b/c it was some form of an eyesore like you would originally think. Working that structure in 2008 - how dare they, I guess. Where as Jericho vs Michaels wasn't anything to talk about. *Oh look he's bleeding. Whoop-de-do. Match is incredibly flat and had no points where it popped or peaked like the majority of their other work.* Give me the simple surprise over the "workrate guys" having a better match just b/c mentality.
> 
> And Muhammad Hassan's gimmick isn't groundbreaking. Good for him having the heat he did, but that's America for ya. Doesn't take much to get a rise out of them if you slam them and you're the minority whom is painted as the villain at the time. Same gimmick happened in the 70's & 80's with Ivan Koloff & Nikolai Volkoff.


I see where you're coming from, but I'll disagree here, cause the way I see it, it wasn't even supposed to be that. It wasn't a WrestleMania 19 or a Judgment Day '08 in workrate, because it was much more storytelling based. What I remember from that match is Shawn beating the hell out of Jericho and partly Cade for revenge. Then Cade busts open HBK's deeply injured eye, and Jericho capitalizes by methodically brutalizing the wound, despite Shawn's valiant comeback efforts.

It was pretty much the original Ziggler/ADR (even though Ziggler/ADR executed it much better as far as I'm concerned).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho busts open Shawn's eye via back elbow while both were trying to get back in the ring. Shawn's "valiant effort" wasn't there either. This isn't Survivor Series 2003 where Shawn was bleeding a ton and kept trying. Jericho punches a few times and that's that. Heck the eye didn't even tie into the story until that real aspect of the match. The bulk of it was a boring, weak version of what they've done in the past. My memory was of this grand storytelling match and yeah, it isn't there anymore. There was so little behind the actual story until the final five minutes. If that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I can't really tell much cause I haven't seen it in ages. I remember Unforgiven being the worst of their PPV saga, briefly though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not monstrous on that match either, but it's far better than the GAB borefest.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

GAB was actually the only Jericho/Michaels I thought was 'very' good. Might give it another watch sometime, Cody's criticism has me interested. I'mma do a 2008 WWE list sometime.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you find a way to get all ECW from 2008 then tell me/show me how. I can't find anything and I'm


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just finished watching SD, another excellent double ME in ADR/Christian and Bryan/Barrett Cage. SD is *killing it* this year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2005, 2010 and *especially* 2004 would love to disagree with that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio vs Christian was fine. Nothing too noteworthy. The cage match was another blast of a match. I really don't think there are too many gold pieces from Smackdown from this year, however. I feel like the bulk is pretty lame with the good episode being sporadic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and Black Show killing 3MB was pretty fun. Can't wait for Shield/Black Show at NOC :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Black Show :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Funny how almost every Tag Team Show's in has the name "Show" in:

JeriShow
ShowMiz
Black Show

And I can come up with names for every team possible:

Right 2 Cen*show*
The Rock n' Show Connection
D-Show-neration X
Straight Edge *Show*ciety
Team Hell Show
The Ne*show*us
The *Show*ld
Demoli*show*
The Hart Founda*show*
etc.

8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A mark"s show, ADR/Christian doesn't touch their ss13 at all


Cody you saw Gaga last night :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm partial towards Yeah1993's dubbing of them as THE FATTIES.

meant BEEFIES.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There are so many names attributable. Big Chocolate Sword, World's Strongest Show, Team That's What The Show Does, heard something about The Beefies too :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Regarding hbk/Jericho the GAB is the only one I like because it not just "workrate" like all the others. They have a pretty good raw 10 too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins, not sure if I saw you mention it, but you saw Cesaro vs Zayn 2/3 falls?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The last nxt one right ? Yea I did it was really good and another MOTYC as always from Cesaro. I was gonna ask you guys in the other thread if the one zep uploaded in this thread was the full ? Pretty sure it was


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Think it was. I know the first one you can find on dailymotion has the complete match on it. That's the one I rewatched to see it all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Same

Saying that it was pretty good, I loved how it was structured, Zayn starting off attacking and getting the pin early on because he knew Cesaro could out brawl and wrestle him. The 2nd fall flew perfectly and the 3rd fall is just :mark: worthy. DAT superplex from the second rope but Cesaro. I think the thing with Cesaro besides him being an EXCELLENT wrestler is his matches are so different, organic than anybody


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Same
> 
> Saying that it was pretty good, I loved how it was structured, Zayn starting off attacking and getting the pin early on because he knew Cesaro could out brawl and wrestle him. The 2nd fall flew perfectly and the 3rd fall is just :mark: worthy. DAT superplex from the second rope but Cesaro. I think the thing with Cesaro besides him being an EXCELLENT wrestler is his matches are so different, organic than anybody


It doesn't matter how "light" Zayn goes up on that second rope suplexes,that move still takes a straight up ungodly amount of strength to pull off, I seriously doubt there are any other wrestlers out there doing it, Cesaro is just freaky freaky strong. And him catching Zayn and gorilla pressing him into a very European uppercut? Good god. I probably rewatched that sequence 4-5 times just trying to make sure what I thought I saw actually happened. Human beings should not be able to do that. I really wish Zayn and Cesaro could get a chance on Smackdown to go out for 20 minutes and just tear the roof off the building. No one would be able to top them, I can guarantee that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Sexual Show
Big Chocolate
Big Pain
Big Sexual
Hall of Show
Worlds Strongest Show
Chocolate Show


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

As far as the Jericho/HBK series goes, I'm gonna stand by my original stance on Judgment Day. That match is flat out fucking brilliant. Total mind games played by Shawn and some incredible workrate to go along with the story. The match that really started that feud and a much better version of their Mania XIX match imo.

Judgment Day - **** 1/2
No Mercy Ladder - **** 1/4
Mania XIX - ****
GAB '08 - *** 1/2 (haven't seen this since it aired though)

Haven't seen the rest atm.

EDIT: I put the wrong PPV damn it!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I love Jericho vs Michaels at Mania 19, I thought it was a ****1/2 match and also the best match on that card. However, I really didn't care for GAB, No Mercy, and Unforgiven. They aren't BAD or anything, I just don't think I'd rate any higher than ***1/4. Everyone seems to love their ladder match and I just don't get it, it was one of the least innovative ladder matches I have seen, there wasn't 1 move I hadn't seen atleast a half dozen times before, and their work was downright sloppy in several spots. I love Jericho and HBK, on paper they should always deliver classics anytime they are given decent time on a PPV, it just never seemed to work out though, other than Mania 19 of course. I prefer Jericho's matches with Punk at Mania28, Chicago Street Fght, and Payback over GAB, Unforgiven, and No mErcy, to be perfectly honest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top 10 WWE US Title matches ever?

As far as I'm concerned, Eddie/Benoit and Miz/Bryan are Top 2, rest idk.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Top 10 WWE US Title matches ever?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, Eddie/Benoit and Miz/Bryan are Top 2, rest idk.


Now THAT would be a fun and/or difficult project. I'm willing to bet the matches you listed would be my 1 and 2 but there's gotta be _some _kind of hidden gems out there. Off the top of my head there's Bryan/Dibiase from Survivor Series 2010, the Benoit/Booker series and... well the list would be dominated by Benoit & Bryan.  Was Cesaro/Kofi from Main Event for the US Title?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Top 10 WWE US Title matches ever?
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, Eddie/Benoit and Miz/Bryan are Top 2, rest idk.



Eddie vs Benoit at Vengeance 03' is far and away the best US title match in WWE history, I rate that personally as a ****3/4 match, it's one of my 20 favorite WWE matches, and top 10 since 2000. Other than the pointless Rhyno interference, it was absolutely flawless. And it's easily one of my favorite cases of Eddie "lying cheating and stealing". Him attempting to wake the ref while he was unconscious then flopping to the ground really quick? Absolutely priceless :lmao

My top 5

1. Benoit vs Eddie Vengeance
2. Benoit vs Booker Armageddon
3. DBry vs Miz NoC
4. Benoit vs Booker NWO (tie)
4. Benoit vs Boooker SS (tie)
5. DBry vs Miz vs Morrison HiaC


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For anyone else that needs it:

Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton (Smackdown 1/27/06) (No Holds Barred)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...own-1-27-06-no-holds-barred.html#post23106129


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Two working days left gents, then I'm back in reviewing season once again .


Any DVDS or shows that you guys need an opinion on soon?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Now THAT would be a fun and/or difficult project. I'm willing to bet the matches you listed would be my 1 and 2 but there's gotta be _some _kind of hidden gems out there. Off the top of my head there's Bryan/Dibiase from Survivor Series 2010, the Benoit/Booker series and... well the list would be dominated by Benoit & Bryan.  *Was Cesaro/Kofi from Main Event for the US Title?*


Yes, yes it was. Who'd have thought that was a US Title match  Another good one was Ziggler/Ryder from TLC 2011, as well as Kennedy/Benoit in '06.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Two working days left gents, then I'm back in reviewing season once again .
> 
> 
> Any DVDS or shows that you guys need an opinion on soon?



Review "Undertakers Deadliest Matches" or "King of Kings" I just bought them for $5.99 from the discount bin at Best Buy:woolcock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If anyone grabbed the full _Cena/Punk match (Raw - Feb 2013)_ from YT that WWE put up (but then took down it seems), could they upload it somewhere please.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best US title match is probably Orton (as Booker's replacement) vs Benoit from Smackdown 13/1/2006. The last match in the best of 7 series, so it can be counted as a title match. Then it's definitely Benoit vs Eddie from Vengeance.

What about IC title? Best one I can think of is the ladder match between Benoit and Jericho from the Royal Rumble.

Btw, I've been looking through threads in this forum from 2007 and I can't believe I actually see some people claim Kennedy is a better worker than Orton.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I swear I don't remember Eddie vs Benoit from Vengeance being too special. Remember some awkward boring phase in the middle being a glaring negative. Like a longer version of their ONS '05 match. It's just kind of there. I can so watch this right now to prove this justification correct.

Cesaro vs Neville from this year is a fabulous United States Championship match. Can't go wrong with Finlay vs Regal either.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

When I think of great IC Title matches one of the first matches that comes to mind is Orton vs Foley from Backlash 2004.



Choke2Death said:


> Btw, I've been looking through threads in this forum from 2007 and I can't believe I actually see some people claim Kennedy is a better worker than Orton.


Kennedy was shit in the ring. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two underrated four way matches rank high for United States Championship matches too:

Eddie vs Benoit vs Tajiri vs Rhyno ~ SummerSlam '03

Benoit vs Christian vs Booker T vs Orlando Jordan ~ No Mercy '05

As for Intercontinental championship: lets mention Razor Ramon vs Jeff Jarrett from Royal Rumble '95 and GUSH. Continuously.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I rewatched the Vengeance match a week or so ago and there was absolutely nothing boring about it to me. The mat wrestling part was inferior to their Armageddon match but the finish stretch was non-stop awesomeness.



Nostalgia said:


> When I think of great IC Title matches one of the first matches that comes to mind is Orton vs Foley from Backlash 2004.


Shiiit, how could I forget that. There's also HHH vs Flair from Taboo Tuesday that may get overlooked because the title was secondary in the feud.



> Kennedy was shit in the ring. :lol


I know, just amazes me how dumb some blind haters can be.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The only Kennedy matcyes i think i could watch are the Taker series, and _maybe_ at a push his match with Batista, possibly a HBK one too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> As far as the Jericho/HBK series goes, I'm gonna stand by my original stance on Judgment Day. That match is flat out fucking brilliant. Total mind games played by Shawn and some incredible workrate to go along with the story. The match that really started that feud and a much better version of their Mania XIX match imo.
> 
> Judgment Day - **** 1/2
> No Mercy Ladder - **** 1/4
> ...


Just got back from classes day 1 complete :clap:clap

Anyway, Hbk/Jercho is the one hbk series besides the hunter matches I really dont care for besides GAB one. their 19 is ok but not a classic in any strech of the imganietion, they tried to hard on the "work-rate" in that one. The ladder is quite generic tbh ok but just that and I actually prefered hunter/hardy from that card.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I swear I don't remember Eddie vs Benoit from Vengeance being too special. Remember some awkward boring phase in the middle being a glaring negative. Like a longer version of their ONS '05 match. It's just kind of there. I can so watch this right now to prove this justification correct.
> 
> Cesaro vs Neville from this year is a fabulous United States Championship match. Can't go wrong with Finlay vs Regal either.


Please, watch it right now. If you find anything boring about that match or rate it any less than "sublime" or "stellar" I need to know. That way when I read your future match reviews I will know we have nothing in common and I won't have anything to say to you the rest of the time I post on this forum

Seriously though, it's that good. I'd rate it like this among Eddies top WWE matches

1. Vs Jbl Judgement Day 2004 *****
2. Vs Rey Smackdown June 2005 ****3/4
3. Vs Brock NWO ****3/4
4. Vs Benoit Vengeance ****3/4

I liked it even more than the Black Tiger vs Wild Pegasus gem from Super J 94' and more than Armageddon. Eddie's facial expressions during the Vengeance match just kill me, especially when he realizes Rhyno speared Benoit and when the ref won't wake up :lmao

What is everyone's thoughts on the Benoit vs Finlay series? Which are the best matches to check out? I just watched Judgement Day 2006 and thought it was outstanding, I know these two had to have worked together in WCW and also more in e WWE, which are some good ones I can cherry pick?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> The only Kennedy matcyes i think i could watch are the Taker series, and _maybe_ at a push his match with Batista, possibly a HBK one too.


Benoit (surprise) also got a couple of good matches out of him.



cjack828 said:


> What is everyone's thoughts on the Benoit vs Finlay series? Which are the best matches to check out? I just watched Judgement Day 2006 and thought it was outstanding, I know these two had to have worked together in WCW and also more in e WWE, which are some good ones I can cherry pick?


Don't know about their WCW stuff. Only watched one match from there for the TV title and I remember Booker showing up towards the end. But it was a long time ago. In WWE, they've had quite a few matches and Judgment Day is the best. But don't sleep on their King of the Ring qualifying match from 5/5/2006 and 24/11/2006 from Smackdown.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Benoit (surprise) also got a couple of good matches out of him.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't know about their WCW stuff. Only watched one match from there for the TV title and I remember Booker showing up towards the end. But it was a long time ago. In WWE, they've had quite a few matches and Judgment Day is the best. But don't sleep on their King of the Ring qualifying match from 5/5/2006 and 24/11/2006 from Smackdown.


Thanks a lot man, I'd give you props but it said I need to spread it around first. 

I just read in Eddie Guerreros book that he worked 2-3 house shows with Steve Austin in 2002 before Steve walked out :mark:

Apparently Steve picked Eddie as his next guy to have a program with and they filmed some vignettes in a bar with Eddie breaking a bottle on Steve's head! What a damn shame this feud never came to fruition, because apparently the house show matches were so good that it made Vince take Eddie more seriously as a main event performer. What I wouldn't give for a good recording of a Steve Austin vs Eddie match :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Top IC Title match ever?

Imo it's Bret/Bulldog, but I don't wanna get flamed  I'll just mention *HITMAN VS. HENNIG.*

Also, I remember a Show/Eddie US Title match being fucking awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Top IC Title match ever?
> 
> Imo it's Bret/Bulldog, but I don't wanna get flamed  I'll just mention *HITMAN VS. HENNIG.*
> 
> Also, I remember a Show/Eddie US Title match being fucking awesome.


Bret/Bulldog is the best CARRY JOB for the IC title . it's prolly the best carry job ever.

Personally, I'd put Macho vs Steamboat, Perfect vs Hart, HBK vs Razor SS95 and WM10 ahead of it. I know there are prolly more but those are the ones that spring to mind when I think of GREAT IC title matches. Also, didn't Hennig put on a classic with Rude for the IC title? I coulda swore I remember a match between those two tearing the house down for the IC strap. Austin vs Owen was great at SS until Owen broke Austin's neck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> I just read in Eddie Guerreros book that he worked 2-3 house shows with Steve Austin in 2002 before Steve walked out :mark:
> 
> Apparently Steve picked Eddie as his next guy to have a program with and they filmed some vignettes in a bar with Eddie breaking a bottle on Steve's head! What a damn shame this feud never came to fruition, because apparently the house show matches were so good that it made Vince take Eddie more seriously as a main event performer. What I wouldn't give for a good recording of a Steve Austin vs Eddie match :mark:


Eddie vs Austin and Eddie vs Taker house show matches being filmed and posted on youtube/dailymotion... :mark: If only.

Sucks that Austin walked out in 2002, he could've had some great matches against the likes of Eddie with the huge roster WWE had at the time.

Doing a random google search got me this, though:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Thanks a lot man, I'd give you props but it said I need to spread it around first.
> 
> I just read in Eddie Guerreros book that he worked 2-3 house shows with Steve Austin in 2002 before Steve walked out :mark:
> 
> Apparently Steve picked Eddie as his next guy to have a program with and they filmed some vignettes in a bar with Eddie breaking a bottle on Steve's head! What a damn shame this feud never came to fruition, because apparently the house show matches were so good that it made Vince take Eddie more seriously as a main event performer. What I wouldn't give for a good recording of a Steve Austin vs Eddie match :mark:


Yeah, i only found that out myself recently, that Austin picked Eddie. I'm sure Austin was more motivated to be moving onto working with Eddie, what i wouldn't give for footage from on of these :mark:

07.06.2002 - Steve Austin defeats Eddie Guerrero
WWE RAW House Show @ Rupp Arena in Lexington, Kentucky, USA

02.06.2002 - Steve Austin defeats Eddie Guerrero
WWE RAW House Show @ The Arena in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA

26.05.2002 - Steve Austin defeats Eddie Guerrero
WWE RAW House Show @ Red Deer, Alberta, Canada

25.05.2002 - Steve Austin defeats Eddie Guerrero
WWE RAW House Show @ The Arena in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Best IC title match for me would be

Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit ladder @ RR 01. GOAT ladder match for me as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Eddie vs Taker house show


Closest we got atm:






Apart from the Armageddon four way of course.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Best IC title match for me would be
> 
> Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit ladder @ RR 01. GOAT ladder match for me as well.



Shit I totally forgot that was for the IC title. You are 100% right, best IC title match and best Ladder match period, it gets the full ***** from me. That dive over the ropes chair shot :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Closest we got atm:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol, but aren't they teaming up on this one? I've only read the title to the video so I don't know but it looks like they are tag partners.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> lol, but aren't they teaming up on this one? I've only read the title to the video so I don't know but it looks like they are tag partners.


Yeah, hey ill take any Taker/Guerrero interaction.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

At least we get an Eddie/Taker hug there. 

They also had another tag match in 2002. Think it was Taker, Edge and Rikishi vs Angle, Benoit and Eddie. And Taker and Eddie teamed up with Booker against JBL's Cabinet in 2004 before Armageddon.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> At least we get an Eddie/Taker hug there.
> 
> They also had another tag match in 2002. Think it was Taker, Edge and Rikishi vs Angle, Benoit and Eddie. And Taker and Eddie teamed up with Booker against JBL's Cabinet in 2004 before Armageddon.



I've been meaning to ask you, on a scale of 1 to Randy Ortons HOF induction ceremony, how pumped are you for the current storyline and Orton main eventing NoC as the incumbent champ against Bryan? I'm really curious to see if these two can deliver a MotY contender, Orton can be a top 5 performer when engaged with the right opponent, and Bryan has been King Midas recently with everything he touches turning gold. I haven't bought NoC before, just waited til it came on DVD and watched it later. I might actually buy the PPV and watch it live because along with the main event the card is shaping up to be pretty darn good (black show vs shield, Ambrose vs Ziggler, punk vs axel (obviously don't care about Axel, but it's still Punk) and ADR vs RVD).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Shit I totally forgot that was for the IC title. You are 100% right, best IC title match and best Ladder match period, it gets the full ***** from me. That dive over the ropes chair shot :mark:




Yeah it just edges out HBK/Jericho NM 08 for me. 

****3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Simply said, I haven't been this excited about something WWE does in two years. WM28 and Extreme Rules with Rock and Brock's in-ring returns didn't have me this excited. On the scale you put it, it's probably something closer to Chris Benoit's HOF induction ceremony. 

Things are really going my way right now. Orton in the main event as the champion, Punk feuding with somebody I give an equal amount of fucks about (ZERO) and RVD facing Del Rio for the WHC is also good. Cena and Sheamus being out with injuries are bittersweet because even though they have been kind of stale, I miss them as the big time star and workhorse, respectively.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, kinda forgot about the Benoit/MVP matches for best of the US Title.

Because we're in a HoF talk, out of the current roster those that are locks atm:

- Cena
- HHH
- Rock
- Taker
- Punk
- Heyman
- Lesnar
- JBL
- Orton
- Kane
- Show
- Henry
- Christian
- RVD


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The best ladder match will always be the original, still holds up and still tie for my favorite match of all time 

hbk/razor wm 10 ****3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*- Cena*
*- HHH*
*- Rock*
*- Taker*
*- Punk*
- Heyman
- Lesnar
- JBL
*- Orton*
*- Kane*
*- Show*
*- Henry*
- Christian
- RVD

In *bold* are who I believe to be stone cold locks. I'd add Chris Jericho to that list, he is most definitely a sure fire Hall of Famer.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Underrated ladder matches?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> Top IC Title match ever?
> 
> Imo it's Bret/Bulldog, but I don't wanna get flamed  I'll just mention *HITMAN VS. HENNIG.*
> 
> Also, I remember a Show/Eddie US Title match being fucking awesome.


Agreed. Show/Eddie for the U.S title at No Mercy 03 is criminally underrated. This match gets a bit of flak for the anti-climatic ending but to me it was awesome. Eddie's babyface comebacks mixed with Big Show's heel control segment. Solid stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Underrated ladder matches?


The Rock vs Triple H at SummerSlam? HBK vs Jericho at No Mercy?

Oh sorry I thought you said *OVERRATED*, my mistake 

I'd say John Morrison vs Sheamus is criminally underrated by the public (although probably not in this thread because most people here have at least SOME sense)

Also, I'd say the TLC match between Edge and Ric Flair does not get enough love. It's not a masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, but it is Naitch doing Nature Boy things, which is always a plus in my book :agree:

TLC 3? The one with Jericho, Benoit, and Kane winning by himself? I think that was TLC 3, and I remember enjoying that a great deal (Benoit diving headbutt through a table :mark


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Underrated ladder matches?


hbk/razor wm 10 (nowadays)
sd mitb 10
sd mitb 13

idk dont like that gimmick that much so idk maybe mitb wm 23 ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> The Rock vs Triple H at SummerSlam? HBK vs Jericho at No Mercy?
> 
> Oh sorry I thought you said *OVERRATED*, my mistake


:HHH :rock2 That Summerslam 98 match is so nice. Don't ever hate on it in my presence. 

I'd like Shawn/Razor at SS 95 to get hollered at more. That's pretty fun. 

Don't remember much about Sheamus/Morrison, maybe I'll check it out after my NOC countdown. 2011 lined up for this afternoon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Underrated ladder matches? Benoit/Angle from JD 2001. Though it's better to watch the whole match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

To go back on the Benoit/Eddie talk, Vengeance '03 is really good (nowhere **** 3/4 good though), but their best match together by far was in Japan. Eddie was under the Black Tiger gimmick. BOSJ '96, I for the life of me CANNOT remember the actual date but definitely check it out (match is in 3 parts but it's a classic):








iwatchwrestling said:


> Underrated ladder matches?


RVD vs. Christian from RAW '03. Awesome match right there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Raw ladder matches, Eddie vs RVD in 2002 is awesome.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/razor wm 10 (nowadays)
> *sd mitb 10*
> sd mitb 13
> 
> idk dont like that gimmick that much so idk maybe mitb wm 23 ?


Extremely underrated. Everyone worked their asses off and Show's performance was outstanding. The entire was really built around him. Probably the most psychologically sound MITB match.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/Mankind from 1999 is a underrated ladder match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Shelton/Christian 8*D8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Raw ladder matches, Eddie vs RVD in 2002 is awesome.


That's a top 10 match in the history of Raw for me, it's absolutely awesome, even tho the Ladder gives out on RVD when he's trying to do the 5 star, I wouldn't rate that match below ****1/2 if you paid me. So epic. And in the commentary on eddies DVD he and RVD talk about that match, and apparently they called the entire thing in the ring. Brilliant match.

And I don't believe SS95 HBK vs Razor is underrated, pretty much everyone I've ever talked to loves that match.

SS98 is a different story. Some people absolutely love it, and that's cool, it's just not the ****1/2+ epic some say it is. I'd give it probably ***3/4 and that seems almost generous. Oh well, everyone has their opinion.

And for the record, Eddie called his Vengeance match against Benoit "easily one of the best matches of my career, and definitely one I'm very, very proud of. It established my character in a whole new light". on the DVD, so there


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is anyone else getting trouble with PWT? It's been down for about 2 days now.


----------



## Jammy (Jan 3, 2012)

I was watching some of Jerry Lawler's old feuds, and one that stood out the most was the one with Nick Bockwinkel. While watching this video, I realized how much 'the punch' has become devalued, hardly anybody on the current roster throws a good punch (apart from HHH and Taker), when you watch guys like Lawler, Bockwinkel, Flair, etc you understand the meaning of 'ring psychology', which is a pretty vague term, but you can see it in front of you, how they work the crowd with just a few strikes instead of big spots. 

I partly blame the Attitude Era for devaluing the punch, Guys like Rocky and Austin were so over with the crowd that their punches looked like they didn't matter, and slowly the crowd stopped reacting to punches and started reacting to big spots. I feel that they're trying to turn that around now, with less spots are more significant moments. Bryan just KO'ed Cena with a running knee, and we all know that a knee is pretty damn effective. 

Anyway here is a nice highlight clip of Jerry Lawler vs Nick Bockwinkel, check out dem punches from both, and how the crowd reacts to small things.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I wish I could find this whole match....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WdjieYmfKc


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I wish I could find this whole match....
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WdjieYmfKc


 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11xv4v_wwf-shotgun-saturday-night-01-25-1997_sport 

Should be in this link


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11xv4v_wwf-shotgun-saturday-night-01-25-1997_sport
> 
> Should be in this link



F yes! Thanks dude.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jammy said:


> I was watching some of Jerry Lawler's old feuds, and one that stood out the most was the one with Nick Bockwinkel. While watching this video, I realized how much 'the punch' has become devalued, hardly anybody on the current roster throws a good punch (apart from HHH and Taker), when you watch guys like Lawler, Bockwinkel, Flair, etc you understand the meaning of 'ring psychology', which is a pretty vague term, but you can see it in front of you, how they work the crowd with just a few strikes instead of big spots.
> 
> I partly blame the Attitude Era for devaluing the punch, Guys like Rocky and Austin were so over with the crowd that their punches looked like they didn't matter, and slowly the crowd stopped reacting to punches and started reacting to big spots. I feel that they're trying to turn that around now, with less spots are more significant moments. Bryan just KO'ed Cena with a running knee, and we all know that a knee is pretty damn effective.
> 
> Anyway here is a nice highlight clip of Jerry Lawler vs Nick Bockwinkel, check out dem punches from both, and how the crowd reacts to small things.



Terry Funk threw the best punches ever, his left hook was just MEAN. I agree with you man, some of the work I see these days is so sloppy as to almost being embarrassing. Guys not hitting the ropes hard, or guys getting thrown into the turnbuckles and just gingerly laying up against them instead of going full bore ala Bret Hart and crashing into them. That kind of stuff is important, it adds an additional layer of authenticity to the match and helps fans suspend disbelief. Same with weak looks punches and kicks. I will give Randy Orton props here, when he mounts someone in the corner and starts laying in the punches on his head, he really looks like he's clocking the guy. I wish guys would take more pride in the little things, I don't know if its the way they are learning or if its just not emphasized by the WWE anymore, but I miss it. That's why I find myself watching tons of matches from guys like Eddie, Benoit, Regal, Finlay, Lesnar, Angle, Foley, and Undertaker. Those guys took a lot of pride in making their matches seem authentic. And it shows because they are considered among the greatest. The thing is, those guys aren't rocket scientists. They just genuinely care about every single part of their craft.

Please don't mistake this as another guy just "hating on the current era" cause that couldn't be further from the truth. I'm genuinely excited about the direction of WWE, I think they have a lot of young talent both on Raw/Smackdown and NXT. I just have to lament every once in a while about the loss of something that I found genuinely important to wrestling: authenticity. That's why I'm such a big fan of guys like Lesnar, Cesaro, and Henry. Those dudes wrestling style is 100% legit. They come off as ass kickers and it shows in their work.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I probably go the full :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer on Flair/Funk I Quit from Clash of the Champions IX. Such a classic. Their Great American Bash in 89 is great too. Flair in 89 was just a machine with Steamboat, Funk, Luger, Sting, etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I probably go the full :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer on Flair/Funk I Quit from Clash of the Champions IX. Such a classic. Their Great American Bash in 89 is great too. Flair in 89 was just a machine with Steamboat, Funk, Luger, Sting, etc.



I was trying to decide which wrestler had the best "year" ever, ala Michael Jordan in 1988 pretty much unleashing unrelenting fury on the league and cementing his status as the top dog. My buddy and whittled it down to HBK in 96', Eddie in 04, Benoit in 95', and Flair in 89' before unanimously deciding it had to be Ric Flair in 1989. The guy was just untouchable.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Has to be Flair in 1989. You have 4 matches that a lot of people have in the five star category (Flair/Steamboat trilogy and the I Quit with Terry Funk) and like 3-4 matches in the four star category....

Flair/Windham v Steamboat/Eddie Gilbert (when Steamboat came back to NWA)
Flair v Funk at GAB
Flair/Sting v Funk/Muta at Halloween Havoc (LOVE this match)
Flair v Sting Starrcade 1989 (very underrated match) 

Bret in 92 was an animal....
vs Piper at WM 8
vs Davey at Summerslam
vs Flair when he won the title
vs HBK at Survivor Series (I actually really enjoy this match) 

Fuck he got a decent match out of Papa Shango at at Saturday Night Main Event


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm a flair mark but 2 of those flair/steamboat are overrated (wrestlerwars, cotc) as fuck and I can name about five flair matches better


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So we're getting Del Rio vs. RVD & Punk vs. Axel tonight on RAW... something tells me these two won't be happening at NOC then. 

Isn't this the 2nd or 3rd Punk/Axel match anyway? Same thing goes for Del Rio/RVD too...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I'm a flair mark but 2 of those flair/steamboat are overrated (wrestlerwars, cotc) as fuck and I can name about five flair matches better


The one in Nashville (can't remember if that's a clash or what) is anything BUT overrated. It's about as flawless a match as you can have, those 2 were brilliant, and seeing Flair win the title back was awesome. Plus you got the bonus of Terry Funk interrupting the celebration and pile driving Flair on top of a table (first time I ever saw something like that)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So we're getting Del Rio vs. RVD & Punk vs. Axel tonight on RAW... something tells me these two won't be happening at NOC then.
> 
> Isn't this the 2nd or 3rd Punk/Axel match anyway? Same thing goes for Del Rio/RVD too...


Lol, Christian vs Del Rio happened like 5 times before the PPV and the match still remained the same when SummerSlam happened. It's their new way of building towards the PPV. Have the match every week even though the purpose is to build it up in different ways to get people to buy the PPV.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol, Christian vs Del Rio happened like 5 times before the PPV and the match still remained the same when SummerSlam happened. It's their new way of building towards the PPV. Have the match every week even though the purpose is to build it up in different ways to get people to buy the PPV.


Hahaha yeah I thought about that after I posted. Kinda silly.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Another real good Punk/Heyman segment, imo. Shame Axel was involved.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Havent watched any raw, turn it on fucking AJ drops a pipebomb :lmao honestly who signed off on that ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Brye said:


> Another real good Punk/Heyman segment, imo. Shame Axel was involved.


Completely uncertain where they go from here match wise, but yeah that segment was fantastic. Heyman yelling "I fathered you! I loved you!" while beating the shit out of Punk gave me goosebumps. 



redskins25 said:


> Havent watched any raw, turn it on fucking AJ drops a pipebomb :lmao honestly who signed off on that ?


Hahaha. I thought the same thing, she buried the shit out of all the divas, and the crowd loved it!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Hung out with the girlyfriend instead of watching RAW.

Was Rollins-Bryan great? How about Punk-Axel?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Bryan/Rollins was awesome

Give these guys 20 minutes on PPV and you'll have an instant classic


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Hung out with the girlyfriend instead of watching RAW.
> 
> Was Rollins-Bryan great? How about Punk-Axel?


Bryan/Rollins was indeed great (one HELL of a top rope spot like only those two can deliver), Punk/Axel as an entire package is really must watch stuff imo (especially Heyman's interview after the match as you can clearly tell he's been crying), Del Rio/RVD wasn't half bad either. The MOTN for me though was Orton/Christian. Damn those two can do no wrong, only problem was Christian almost dying on the apron.  Also look out for AJ's pipebomb on the Divas division. Good shit, good episode.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I need to see my boy PUNK go H.A.M on that boring Axel fuck.

I think that it's nice to see the biggest full timer left in the company drop down to try and help a young guy get over while at the same time providing quality television with Heyman. I mean, we may see it as a demotion for Punk while in reality it's just trying to get Axel over while either ending or writing another chapter in the Heyman/Punk rivalry that I hope continues until we get a HIAC blowoff between Punk & Brock.

Although I'm certain Orton/Bryan will main event in the Cell this year, and it'll actually make sense if the Corporation interferes in their next two PPV bouts. & I'd actually be kinda really stoked for that.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

First, tonight we got a strong dose of heel Trips, but I imagine he's only scratched the surface. AJ's promo was pretty nice. Bryan/Rollins was of course good, but not close to what those two are capable of. German from the top was awesome. 

Second, everyone check this Trips/Show Last Man Standing from 12/2009. This was the third match Trips competed in that night due as part of his mini feud with Vickie while they were on Smackdown. Not great or anything, but a decent LMS match. Pretty good babyface performance here, and Show did well also. Trips usually did well in these matches, heel or face.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Sheamus (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler (_No Way Out 2012_)

You put Dolph in any position on the card against any opponent and he sure as hell makes the most of it doesn't he? Quite the show off.  This is one HELL of a good match that's basically dominated by Ziggler during the bulk of it. I absolutely love his persistence with the sleeper hold and his constant desire to be on the offensive. Top rope x factor was awesome, crowd loved Ziggler for every minute of this. Matches like these make you wonder why in the FUCK this guy isn't the World Heavyweight Champion or even in the damn title picture. Pull the trigger, Jesus! Anyway, great match. Notch above their Main Event match from earlier this year. ******


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watched Summerslam with my parents. Gold commentary as usual. :lmao Their reactions to both main events really shows how strong those matches truly were. They don't know much in the way of backstory, nor have they been watching Bryan's weekly ascension to sheer greatness, but the way the matches captivated them both speaks volumes. 

Both Mom & Dad were basically silent during Wyatt/Kane. :lmao

And crickets for Sandow/Rhodes, other than the obligatory reference to Goldust. :mark:

Business picked up (JR shout out) for Christian/ADR. As expected, parents were split for this with Dad rooting for ADR and Mom rooting for Christian. Was really surprised at Mom's knowledge of Christian's past. She referenced him "coming into the WWE w/Edge and both had long hair." My Dad thought Christian looked way too old to be doing this. :lmao "I can't stand Christian." Dad said "Thank God" when Christian tapped, but Mom was bummed. Both agreed the match was really good, though.

Divas match - "Debbie, I guess this is your window of opportunity to make dinner." :lmao :lmao

Lesnar/Punk - Both weren't quite sure how Punk would ever be able to hang with Lesnar. It was nice watching the match with two other Lesnar fans.  Dad is still impressed by Lesnar's leap onto the apron during his entrance. "People that size shouldn't be this athletic." Amen. The stretch of the match when they are exchanging submissions really got both parents going. Dad almost begged Lesnar not to tap. "He's not going to tap, is he?!?" Lesnar is so convincing when he's selling submissions. While Lesnar was in the triangle, Dad shouted, "WHY DOESN'T HE JUST PICK HIM UP AND SLAM HIM?!?" Sure enough, Lesnar picked Punk up and slammed him to the mat. Good job, Dad. Both were in awe of the running powerbomb. Dad fell for the F-5 counter into DDT nearfall. "Lesnar makes some scary ass facial expressions." :lmao Both clapped when Lesnar won. 

Ziggler tag - Mom made cookies. :lmao

Bryan/Cena - "OMG why does this guy ALWAYS main event?!?" Have I mentioned before Mom hates Cena? I told both parents to pay close attention to the pre-match promo, as the story was super relevant. Dad had never really taken Bryan seriously until now. He was blown away. When Bryan lifted himself up after the spider suplex, my mom asked "how did he do that?!?" Dad gave credit to Bryan being some sort of Kung Fu master. :lmao "The other guys on the roster really need to take notes. You don't need to be the biggest guy to make people believe in your ability." That's Bryan in a nutshell, and that's how he's become so popular. Parents are both casuals, and his performance won them over immediately. "This guy is a maniac!" When Bryan pinned Cena, they were both in complete shock. "He did it!" said Dad. Mom just let out one of those OMG gasps. That's what makes Bryan so great. They were about to turn the TV off, but I advised against it. My mom immediately became concerned that something bad would happen to Bryan. When HHH turned and Orton cashed, they were crushed into silence. My dad, who is as big a HHH mark as I am, was furious. "After a great match like that, Bryan gets robbed?!?" My mom was visibly bummed out. Great stuff.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Raw tonight:

Punk/Axel- **3/4
Orton/Christian- *1/2
Bryan/Rollins- ***1/2

Didn't think Bryan/Rollins was as great as their last match, but it was definitely another fun one.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I'm a flair mark but 2 of those flair/steamboat are overrated (wrestlerwars, cotc) as fuck and I can name about five flair matches better


Overrated? The fuck? :rodman

Sorry I'm a huge Rodman mark and just now noticed his smile on here. 

To each their own. I think all 3 are amazing. Not sure which one my fave is. Flair himself said he had dozens of matches with Steamboat better than that but they were not filmed. I think that is Ric being Ric though. Their matches in 84 and 94 were money too. No 2 guys had the chemistry those two had together. Just poetry and everything that is perfect about pro wrestling. 

Wrestlewar was the last one where Funk piledrove Flair through the table. Seeing that as an 8 year old kid geez..... I'll always remember that feud. I legit thought they wanted to kill each other. Their I quit match gets the full fiver from me. One of my fave matches ever.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Your parents willingly watching shows with you is awesome. It's also nice to know what casual fans think of things as well. Bryan is catching fire right now. Cena's injury may be a blessing. Speaking of which did your parents know he was hurt going into that match? If so what did they say about it, if anything?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They didnt know he was hurt, just noticed him favoring the elbow at times. It's funny - as much as my mom hates Cena she kept hoping he would come to Bryan's rescue.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Please, watch it right now. If you find anything boring about that match or rate it any less than "sublime" or "stellar" I need to know. That way when I read your future match reviews I will know we have nothing in common and I won't have anything to say to you the rest of the time I post on this forum
> 
> Seriously though, it's that good. I'd rate it like this among Eddies top WWE matches
> 
> ...


Will never ever remotely think that match is that close of being good. Eddie vs Benoit from Nitro in '95 rapes it alone and that's off the top of my head.

Benoit vs Finlay from Slamboree '98 is where you need to go. It has the debut of the Benoit dive through the ropes head first into the chair spot on it. Years before Royal Rumble '01. _(obviously)_

--------------

Crickets during Rhodes vs Sandow, eh Greg? Well it's safe to say that I cared a touch more than your parents. 

Feels like your "Brock fans" line was a slight towards two lads who happen to love Punk. WAS IT? :leslie

Lovely review per usual.

oh and new topic: RAW tonight was fabulous. Had fun the entire show. AJ burying the divas. Brilliant.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> *Will never ever remotely think that match is that close of being good.* Eddie vs Benoit from Nitro in '95 rapes it alone and that's off the top of my head.
> 
> Benoit vs Finlay from Slamboree '98 is where you need to go. It has the debut of the Benoit dive through the ropes head first into the chair spot on it. Years before Royal Rumble '01. _(obviously)_
> 
> ...


Not sure what that means but I'm guessing its not good:side:

If you are talking about the Nitro Match where Benoit is still rocking the blue Wild Pegasus tights, then yes that match is terrific and probably could have ended up being better if it was given more time (Benoit gives Eddie the most violent power bomb I think I've ever seen in that match, if thats the one you were talking about). Benoit and Eddie both had matches in New Japan and WCW I'd consider better, but I think Vengeance 03' is on both of their top 10 lists while being in WWE.

To each his own, the Vengeance match has everything I like about wrestling in it. It starts out fast and sucks you in, then slows down again so it can build all the way up into a crescendo of false finishes and kick ass wrestling. I like matches that build that way more than ones that start slower and just continually build higher and higher until the end. I also love Eddie's character here, Vengeance is the first time I can remember him getting a baby face reaction to his "lying cheating and stealing". By the end of the match, it wasn't "heel vs baby face" anymore, it was just baby face vs baby face and the crowd was eating it up. The work in the ring told the story well (Eddie being jealous of Benoit, thinking Benoit was standing in his spot light and that Eddie wasn't getting enough shine. Eddie trying to out wrestle, out maneuver, and out smart Benoit at every turn)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

From RAW last night:

Punk/Axel- **1/2
ADR/RVD- *
Christian/Orton- ***
Shield/Bryan- ***1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, kinda off-topic but I just found out that Prince Nevitt is on WWE watch because of William Regal, and that apparently PAC/Neville was signed because of William Regal.

DAT REGAL :clap


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

RAW 20th Anniversary DVD set looking to be a big one:


> While still unconfirmed at this point, we’ve heard that the collection will take on a “Greatest Episodes” theme and feature up to 20 episodes of the show.
> 
> Even better, we hear that the Raw episodes chosen will be shown in full and unedited. By our calculations, that could end up being at least a ten disc DVD set! Once again, this is unconfirmed information but this is the news we’re hearing today. More soon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Devitt leaving New Japan, as he's getting pushed, for potential mediocrity screams a bad decision. Look at Tensai.


----------



## Alex (Feb 27, 2010)

Srdjan99 said:


> From RAW last night:
> 
> Punk/Axel- **1/2
> ADR/RVD- *
> ...


I don't care for star ratings, but I thought Orton/Christian was the MOTN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Highlight Of The Night was AJ Lee tho.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wasn't the whole Devitt thing related to his outbursts on Twitter and Regal stating that he should be careful over what he mentions, especially considering how it may hurt his future chances? Of course it isn't set in stone but even if it is a step down, the roster for the cruiserweights, alone, would be amazing.

I mean, look at this list: PAC, Generico, Devitt, Mysterio, Mascarita Dorada, Samuray Del Sol. That's drool worthy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not to mention Hunico, Los Matadores, Gabriel, and if they can EVER succesfully repackage him, Mistico/Sin Cara.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I wanted to include Sin Cara as he can flop around with the best of them, but I hesitated in how that name may be taken.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I see what you did there, "flop" around :lol

Funny how he went from Mistico, one of the best and most respected luchadores possibly of all time, to the "legend" of Sin Cara :lmao

Well, we still got Mistico vs Bryan Danielson, one of the ultimate indy dream matches, to happen in a WWE ring


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Feels like your "Brock fans" line was a slight towards two lads who happen to love Punk. WAS IT? :leslie
> 
> Lovely review per usual.
> 
> oh and new topic: RAW tonight was fabulous. Had fun the entire show. AJ burying the divas. Brilliant.


Was hoping you and/or Tyler would pick up on that.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Devitt leaving New Japan, as he's getting pushed, for potential mediocrity screams a bad decision. Look at Tensai.


idk if i'd say he's being pushed right now. he's in the same spot as he was 6+ months ago (just a heel now) and almost certain to lose to Tanahashi at the next ppv after defeating him in their last two meetings.

would like to see Devitt go to the E since he's real stagnant in NJPW. i don't see it happening though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey that reminds me, who were the Los Matadores before joining WWE? I didn't recognize them when I saw that vignette on Raw last week.

I'd love for WWE to drop the US title and really make a go at creating a Cruiserweight/Lucha division. Although part of me thinks that it would be hard for that to work. The original Cruiserweight division worked so well because the guys working the main events at the time were dudes like Hogan, Savage, Flair, Giant, Hall, Nash, Sting, DDP, and Luger. Those guys work a much more slow, methodical style, and it's what made the insanity of a Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero match or a Malenko vs Jericho match really stick out. Right now guys like Punk and Bryan are on top, and they are such well rounded performers that they actually have a ton of the old Cruiserweight stuff incorporated into their styles already. I don't know if the smaller guys in the WWE would be able to stand out enough. Because they surely can't go by weight class to decide a Cruiserweight division, because that would force Punk, Ziggler, and Daniel Bryan to be a part of it, which is dumber than dumb.

I dunno, I just want to find a way to keep a Mistico from turning into another Sin Cara. Numerous injuries aside, guys like him need to be put in a situation to succeed, not just thrown out to sink or swim with the sharks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Hey that reminds me, *who were the Los Matadores before joining WWE? * I didn't recognize them when I saw that vignette on Raw last week.
> 
> I'd love for WWE to drop the US title and really make a go at creating a Cruiserweight/Lucha division. Although part of me thinks that it would be hard for that to work. The original Cruiserweight division worked so well because the guys working the main events at the time were dudes like Hogan, Savage, Flair, Giant, Hall, Nash, Sting, DDP, and Luger. Those guys work a much more slow, methodical style, and it's what made the insanity of a Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero match or a Malenko vs Jericho match really stick out. Right now guys like Punk and Bryan are on top, and they are such well rounded performers that they actually have a ton of the old Cruiserweight stuff incorporated into their styles already. I don't know if the smaller guys in the WWE would be able to stand out enough. Because they surely can't go by weight class to decide a Cruiserweight division, because that would force Punk, Ziggler, and Daniel Bryan to be a part of it, which is dumber than dumb.
> 
> I dunno, I just want to find a way to keep a Mistico from turning into another Sin Cara. Numerous injuries aside, guys like him need to be put in a situation to succeed, not just thrown out to sink or swim with the sharks.


Primo & Epico :lol


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Leaving in the middle of a push is slightly dickish. Also, the Tensai situation is a bit different, imo. Tensai was a big dude in NJPW, but in the WWE he's not. The WWE has guys like Big Show, Kane, and Mark Henry. Tensai can't really compete with being a monster next to these guys. Also, Tensai was considered somewhat of a joke by the WWE audience because of his previous run there, so he had that going against him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Primo & Epico :lol



No! God damnit, I hated those guys. Really? They were just repackaged? I thought it might be atleast some crazy luchadore team I hadn't heard of, in other words something to look forward to. How fucking lame is that???!! They were so whack and not even Rosa's dancing could make them interesting to me. I was so happy when they dropped the belts to Air Boom and dissapeared, and I hate Kofi Kingston


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BRYAN VS SHIELD was hella fun. That German off the top rope = :mark:. I'm really pumped for Orton/Bryan at NOC and hopefully Shield vs. THE BEEFIES gets added too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bryan/Rollins need a 20+ minute PPV match, ASAP.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bryan/Rollins was sick last night. Good lord can' t wait for the best of Raw & Smackdown 2013. That blu ray will be great. 

I'm all for Rosa dancing around more!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Bryan/Rollins need a 20+ minute PPV match, ASAP.


Agreed, even if it was just on Raw, I wouldn't care. Those two need more time in the ring period. They can do so much more.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They should probably have that epic match soon because at this rate Rollins will be dead by the end of the year. 

That suicide dive bump he took was insane. :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Overrated? The fuck? :rodman
> 
> Sorry I'm a huge Rodman mark and just now noticed his smile on here.
> 
> ...


Their good, jsut get way to much praise, chi-town rumble shits on both of thoses.

tbh flair/vader starcade and flair/windam I think 4/86 87 ? are much better also


Hey TLK I'm just curious what are your folks thoughts on Ziggler ?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I'd like to something other than a sprint from Bryan/Rollins. Don't get me wrong, what they've done so far has been fun as hell to watch, but I'd like to see them employ a different dynamic if they were to have a "big" match. I have no doubt that those two could potentially produce a legit classic match under the right circumstances.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can never get enough of Rollins bumping, he and Ziggler have a lock on the being best bump takers in the WWE right now. I'd love to see them up against a guy like Henry or Big Show. 

Speaking of Rollins, has he ever had any straight up 1on 1 matches with Cesaro? I've only ever seen them in tags and 4 ways


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I didnt watch anything on raw besides AJ Punk's pipe bomb, anything remotely interesting ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I didnt watch anything on raw besides AJ Punk's pipe bomb, anything remotely interesting ?



Everything, actually. The whole show ruled, Bryan vs Shield being the high point alongside AJs promo.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> I can never get enough of Rollins bumping, he and Ziggler have a lock on the being best bump takers in the WWE right now. I'd love to see them up against a guy like Henry or Big Show.
> 
> Speaking of Rollins, has he ever had any straight up 1on 1 matches with Cesaro? I've only ever seen them in tags and 4 ways


They had a few matches in FCW and a couple in ROH. I don't remember a whole lot of their ROH stuff and their FCW stuff was when Cesaro was new to the "WWE style" I believe. I'd LOVE to see them lock it up now. Cesaro is for my money, the best he's ever been at the moment and Rollins has been really entertaining aswell. I think for the optimum match between them though, Rollins would have to turn face.


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

I really would love to see Bryan/Rollins go at it on a PPV or in a 15-20 minute TV match. We've seen what they can do in ROH, and what they can do in short span on RAW, so it'd be awesome to see what they could put together with some time on a show. 

The RAW 20th Anniversary set is going to be a 12-DVD/10-BluRay set. That's gonna rock. So, in that vein, it's expected to be the 20 greatest RAW episodes ever uncut and unedited, so let's hear your guys' thoughts -- what episodes of RAW should be included on this one?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I didn't like RAW yesterday, tbh. I never understand why they do those contender vs champion matches on RAW and then put the two wrestlers up against each other at a PPV. RVD and ADR have wrestled each other 3 times just this month and they're set to wrestle again at NOC. The same thing happened with Christian and ADR. Bryan's opening promo wasn't very good IMO. The whole "Randy, I just bought you a car" was useless. Like, how is that meant to gain heat for HHH? It was obvious that the car would be the focus of the show later on anyway, happens all the time. 

My favourite parts of the show were the Punk/Axel match (aftermath as well), AJ's pipebomb and Bryan vs Shield in a Gautlet match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Hey TLK I'm just curious what are your folks thoughts on Ziggler ?


Mom likes him because of his looks. Dad likes him more than he dislikes him. I think my dad is jealous of his hair, though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ Yea just asking because I post a couple weeks ago idk if you saw it but I was watching raw with my sister and ziggler came out and she said " He looks so weird" "he has huge chin" and just started laughing

Also I recently talked to my cousin who is the one who got me into wwe in the first place, he actually stopped watch but just started again after buying wwe 13 recently asked my who my favorite was now because he knew I'm a hbk guy and he retired. long story short I said Ziggler, he looks at me laughs and walks away saying "Brock could eat him" :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

cjack828 said:


> I can never get enough of Rollins bumping,* he and Ziggler have a lock on the being best bump takers *in the WWE right now. I'd love to see them up against a guy like Henry or Big Show.
> 
> Speaking of Rollins, has he ever had any straight up 1on 1 matches with Cesaro? I've only ever seen them in tags and 4 ways


I really am not a fan of Ziggler's bumping, I'd even put Rollins' bumps head and shoulders above Zigglers. I don't know, Dolph's just seem so outlandish, cartoony and a lot of the time, unnecessary to the point where it's off putting but I guess thats the reason why people like him so much. Rollins bumps like an absolute madman but it never seems as if he's doing it to get noticed, like it seems Ziggler does in my opinion. Like... Rollins has a hell of a lot more to his game than his bumping and doesn't have to bump how he does for people to recognise his talent, but it's almost like it's what brought Dolph to the dance and what's keeping him there, despite the fact he's toned it down a lot recently.

Maybe it's just me


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I really am not a fan of Ziggler's bumping, I'd even put Rollins' bumps head and shoulders above Zigglers. I don't know, Dolph's just seem so outlandish, cartoony and a lot of the time, unnecessary to the point where it's off putting but I guess thats the reason why people like him so much. Rollins bumps like an absolute madman but it never seems as if he's doing it to get noticed, like it seems Ziggler does in my opinion. Like... Rollins has a hell of a lot more to his game than his bumping and doesn't have to bump how he does for people to recognise his talent, but it's almost like it's what brought Dolph to the dance and what's keeping him there, despite the fact he's toned it down a lot recently.
> 
> Maybe it's just me


No you are absolutely right, Zigglers bumps ARE outlandish and wild and done to get attention, but he's the show off, that's his character, so it fits. HBK in th 90s took some hilarious bumps too, but again, it fit the character. I find it entertaining personally, though I can understand completely those who don't. Rollins is the best bump taker for my money though, I just happen to think Ziggler is tremendous as well.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Well fuck. Taker interviewed for new HHH documentary. This is going to be epic. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Batista calling Triple H the Michael Jordan of wrestling.

& TAKER :mark:.

FUCKIN NINJA'D.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao KOK. MARKS UNITED!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I still can't get over Batista saying that though.

I mean, to call somebody the GREATEST EVER is a huge, huge fucking compliment.


----------



## hhhfan474 (Nov 7, 2006)

I seriously can't wait....If only to hear the painted toenail story :lol


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The ROCK as well :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Taker breaking character? :taker


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This is going to be GOAT for the list of people interviewed alone. TAKER ROCK TAKER VINCE TAKER STEPH TAKER TRIPS. Still in shock that they interviewed TAKER. Hopefully this means that we'll get a TAKER documentary down the line.

HHH did a LOT for Batista. He basically have him his wrestling career. I think that's just Dave paying his respects.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I hope they explore the quad tear in the form of more than just a one second clip. But with Taker interviewed, this should be epic.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well, HHH is already having a heavy influence on re-writing the history books and will continue to do so in the future. I'm willing to bet that within the next 10-15 years that every single casual wrestling fan will see Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Ric Flair, John Cena, HHH, & MAAAYBEEE The Rock as being the greatest ever I'm sure, with HBK/Taker/Flair/HHH being the tops.

Statements like Batista made go a long way in the brain of a casual fan who just popped on a wrestling documentary for the first time ever.

I'm also sure that under HHH, Mysterio & especially Eddie's legacies are going to be taken care of. Guys like Foley & Jericho though? FUCKED.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I still can't get over Batista saying that though.
> 
> I mean, to call somebody the GREATEST EVER is a huge, huge fucking compliment.



Dude I'm as pumped for this Documentary as anyone, but I do think that was a case of excessive hyperbole on the part of Batista. he was just paying his respects to the man who essentially gave him his career, and then put him over on 3 straight PPVs including the HiaC match which is Batista's greatest match and one of the 5-10 greatest HHH matches. If anyone has ever been "made" in this industry by another wrestler, Triple H "made Dave Batista. 

On the subject of being made, I hope Triple H REALLY puts over Foley on this new Doc, because Foley is hugely responsible for Triple H's career.

Man I cannot freaking wait for this thing to come out, I'm buying it the first day no question. I love the WWE documentaries, Foleys is the best one they ever did.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

will94 said:


> The RAW 20th Anniversary set is going to be a 12-DVD/10-BluRay set. That's gonna rock. So, in that vein, it's expected to be the 20 greatest RAW episodes ever uncut and unedited, so let's hear your guys' thoughts -- what episodes of RAW should be included on this one?


Ill wait to see which episodes they pick, plus wonder how much it will be. :|


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Well, HHH is already having a heavy influence on re-writing the history books and will continue to do so in the future. I'm willing to bet that within the next 10-15 years that every single casual wrestling fan will see Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Ric Flair, John Cena, HHH, & MAAAYBEEE The Rock as being the greatest ever I'm sure, with HBK/Taker/Flair/HHH being the tops.
> 
> Statements like Batista made go a long way in the brain of a casual fan who just popped on a wrestling documentary for the first time ever.
> 
> I'm also sure that under HHH, Mysterio & especially Eddie's legacies are going to be taken care of. Guys like Foley & Jericho though? FUCKED.


Wy would you sa Foley is fucked? On Foleys documentary and the King of Kings set, Hunter is HUGELY complementary towards Mick, on the King of Kings set he even goes so far as to say Mick chose Hunter to main event those 2 PPVs in 2000 and that he owes a ton to Mick. 

I like Triple H, but he isnt above Foley in my book, not even close. The best matches Hunter ever had were with Mick, he never did as well with anyone as he did with Mick. And this is coming from a fan of Haitch.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

will94 said:


> I really would love to see Bryan/Rollins go at it on a PPV or in a 15-20 minute TV match. We've seen what they can do in ROH, and what they can do in short span on RAW, so it'd be awesome to see what they could put together with some time on a show.
> 
> The RAW 20th Anniversary set is going to be a 12-DVD/10-BluRay set. That's gonna rock. So, in that vein, it's expected to be the 20 greatest RAW episodes ever uncut and unedited, so let's hear your guys' thoughts -- what episodes of RAW should be included on this one?


Goodness. Thats Major. Sure hope they have some good ones in there.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips is the only guy who is going to end up with 2 legacies, his ring legacy and his legacy as the boss. He has only just half way transitioned into the latter. Kinda scary that while all the guys from his time will be finishing up soon, he'll only be starting the second leg of his career. 

You left out Hogan and Austin, KOK. Any particular reason why or just oversight?

The Raw set looks epic as well and then there's the history of the WWE set coming out later this year. We're set to have a pretty sweet run up to Xmas time in terms of DVD.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Well fuck. Taker interviewed for new HHH documentary. This is going to be epic. :mark:


:mark::mark:

I just can't wait for this. So stoked.



> You left out Hogan and Austin, KOK. Any particular reason why or just oversight?


Austin's made for life. Hogan probably is also, but Austin? No one's changing his legacy.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> This is going to be GOAT for the list of people interviewed alone. TAKER ROCK TAKER VINCE TAKER STEPH TAKER TRIPS. Still in shock that they interviewed TAKER. Hopefully this means that we'll get a TAKER documentary down the line.


Thats a fucking monster lineup.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'm also sure that under HHH, Mysterio & especially Eddie's legacies are going to be taken care of. Guys like Foley & Jericho though? FUCKED.


How about the biggest question, Benoit? Do you think HHH keeps him buried or actually treats him like everybody else?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Dear God I can't wait to see this documentary.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

That trailer looks great. LOL at Taker wearing a hoody and hat. He looks like a larger CM Punk. I wonder if the story about him bitching about how Punk dressed is actually true. And HHH is no Michael Jordan.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> How about the biggest question, Benoit? Do you think HHH keeps him buried or actually treats him like everybody else?


I care about this more than about any other issue really. When are they going to acknowledge the study that found Benoits brain was so damaged it resembled a 80 year old Alzheimer's patient? And that he likely would have been dead within a year anyways? That this wasn't a case of roid rage or some sick psychopath, but of a guy who's brain had been damaged so severely that he lost touch with reality? It truly bothers me that he is just ignored. They don't have to promote Benoit, but there is a difference between not promoting and completing pretending he never existed.


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

FUCK that HHH DVD looks so awesome. Seriously my most anticipated DVD in a long time. I've been watching his last three releases to amp me up for it.

When I started watching wrestling regularly in mid-1999, Trips was the first guy I called my favorite wrestler, and I've always been a fan since. His 1999-2001 work cemented him as one of my favorites of all time.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Triple H the Michael Jordan? This DVD is going to be all about stroking DAT EGO, isn't it?

Nah, I'm only kidding. It looks pretty fucking awesome judging by the previews. Undertaker :mark:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Defo buying the HHH blu ray.

And it aint because of HHH :taker


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Wilberforce said:


> I'd like to something other than a sprint from Bryan/Rollins. Don't get me wrong, what they've done so far has been fun as hell to watch, but I'd like to see them employ a different dynamic if they were to have a "big" match. I have no doubt that those two could potentially produce a legit classic match under the right circumstances.


I have no doubt they would deviate from their current format, though I agree with you they've got a far better match in them (haven't seen the rematch but so far I gather it was worked largely the same as their June match) and currently they're pretty much working the best possible sprint/spotty match without really delving into the intangibles and working a smarter match.

I'm not too critical of that currently because given the time afforded to both and Rollins having limited singles exposure so far I can see they're trying to deliberately work a more high octane and riveting match with a breaktaking pace to catch attention, rather than working a more focused match which can be saved for PPV.

I do think the best dynamic for their chemistry mind you is Bryan as the heel and Rollins the face. I was never greatly impressed with Rollins as a heel on the indy scene and the little of his face run in FCW I saw only reaffirmed my belief he's far more naturally suited to working as a face. Bryan is far more diverse and capable of possessing immense range as a face or heel and can work a more slow building pace on top as we saw in the Sheamus & Punk matches from last year.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

when was that filmed? Last Winter?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Taker* talking for a Triple H documentary?

Cody ain't even mad :HHH2


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Browsed over the last few pages of discussion.

Benoit/Eddie's best match will forever be the BOSJ '96 encounter for me. Might honestly be both guy's career match as well, although Eddie/Rey 6/23 is close. I actually don't think Benoit has a match that comes close to matching it. Speaking of overlooked Eddie matches in WWE, I'd put his 5/22/03 tag w/ Tajiri vs Team Angle & the 4/15/04 Smackdown match vs Big Show as two of his best matches in the company and two of his best matches period. The Show match is a total Eddie masterclass in terms of unique hope spots (ripping @ Show's chest hair during a bearhug, slipping a wrench into his boot) and it might be the best Show performance ever as he hits everything to perfection and truly looks like the most irrepressible force in existence.

Benoit/Eddie 10/16/95 is one of the best 8 minute TV matches I've seen. The fact they manage to work an actual engrossing heat segment in between the breakneck pace and transitions is startling and that powerbomb is just harrowingly stiff.

Lawler discussion warmed my cockles. He's such a better worker than the people who commonly get referenced as the best imo (Angle, HBK, Bret, HHH, Taker, Austin, Steamboat, Lesnar, Morton etc) and might be the absolute best at perfecting the refined and basic US style and garnering nuclear reactions. Impeccable babyface bumper and seller, equally capable of working main event title matches or bloody brawls, sub ten minute matches against monsters like Blackwell & Bigelow, can work pissed off and inspiring heroic face or comedy/cliche face, astute and classic heel formula down in Texas & WWF, great matches in the 70s, 80s, 90s and even the 00s, has a body of work in terms of matches, promos and angles that rivals any wrestler ever from his decade long quest to win the world title (Flair, Bockwinkel, Martel & Hennig all defending against him in Memphis), to the on and off 10 year+ Dundee feud, to the classic Jimmy Hart feud that turned him face and has arguably the best 'wrestler vs manager' match ever & the mainstream Kaufman feud which captured nationwide coverage.

His offence is simplistic but timed to perfection, he's capable in short TV studio matches or headlining the biggest shows, he just grasps how to manufacture a reaction from the most basic of spots, structures his matches beautifully to get over his opponent in addition to himself and has arguably the best comeback in US wrestling history: perfectly channeling the fine line between captivating and theatrical.

Funk's the only guy in terms of American wrestlers who might have more longevity than Lawler and of course Funk's unprecedented success in Japan in terms of becoming a beloved icon and proving equally as successful there as he did in America certainly justifies potentially ranking him above Lawler (both of them in addition to Flair would be the three best north american wrestlers for me, with Eddie, Hansen, Steamboat, Vader, Mysterio & Morton somewhere after them).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> *Taker* talking for a Triple H documentary?
> 
> Cody ain't even mad :HHH2


Yep. Actually peaked my interest. Greatly.



JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Leaving in the middle of a push is slightly dickish. Also, the Tensai situation is a bit different, imo. Tensai was a big dude in NJPW, but in the WWE he's not. The WWE has guys like Big Show, Kane, and Mark Henry. Tensai can't really compete with being a monster next to these guys. Also, Tensai was considered somewhat of a joke by the WWE audience because of his previous run there, so he had that going against him.


Of course he can compete. Why couldn't he? Makes no sense there. WWE has tried to make untalented big men in the past mean something. Using a guy with talent isn't a stretch.

And we ALL know the past tenure means nothing in the world of WWE. You can be a jobber one week and then someone who is the next big thing the following. Tensai leaving as a "joke" and then coming back was a clean slate. It was only WWE who decided to demote the man from Gaijin Japanese monster to Zoo Crew version two. Which is more of a joke than A-Train was before he left the company in 2004. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Was hoping you and/or Tyler would pick up on that.


This freakin guy...unk2



bigbuxxx said:


> idk if i'd say he's being pushed right now. he's in the same spot as he was 6+ months ago (just a heel now) and almost certain to lose to Tanahashi at the next ppv after defeating him in their last two meetings.
> 
> would like to see Devitt go to the E since he's real stagnant in NJPW. i don't see it happening though.


He still got a lot of huge wins in the Climax though. Yeah, he'll probably lose to Tanahashi and squash that program once and for all. He's still the junior champion, leading a faction, and has more potential for another championship shot (b/c he beat Okada) and could have another big program in the future; specifically with Makabe. I can't see how their match at the Climax doesn't lead to something. Feel like the whole company is a tad stagnant until this next PPV. Only b/c the sole focus of everything the past month was the round robin tournament. Once things get back to their normal stance, we'll see how things progress.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Holy fuck, Taker got interviewed for the HHH doc? :taker

I may have to buy it after all.

And maybe this means we'll get a Taker doc in the next couple of years. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao michael jordan of what ? stroking his ego and thinking he is on the same level as the flair/takers/hbk/austin of the world. Let me guess batista is the Kobe Bryant ?

that eddie/taji vs. team angle was a blast. I didnt watch the 'E in 03 but there arent many matches I believe that can top that match ? I love that eddie/show match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

A Taker doc would be fucking incredible.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Browsed over the last few pages of discussion.
> 
> Benoit/Eddie's best match will forever be the BOSJ '96 encounter for me. Might honestly be both guy's career match as well, although Eddie/Rey 6/23 is close. I actually don't think Benoit has a match that comes close to matching it. Speaking of overlooked Eddie matches in WWE, I'd put his 5/22/03 tag w/ Tajiri vs Team Angle & the 4/15/04 Smackdown match vs Big Show as two of his best matches in the company and two of his best matches period. The Show match is a total Eddie masterclass in terms of unique hope spots (ripping @ Show's chest hair during a bearhug, slipping a wrench into his boot) and it might be the best Show performance ever as he hits everything to perfection and truly looks like the most irrepressible force in existence.
> 
> ...


It's great to see someone else give Lawler the props he deserves, that man is a wrestling God, his match with Funk from 81' I believe is probably the greatest brawl I've ever seen, hands down. I need to watch some Lawler now you got me all excited.

I haven't seen Eddie vs Benoit BOSJ96', that was the event Benoit wrestled Jericho as The Calgary Kids right? Ive seen that match but not the Eddie one. I need to find that right away, you definitely piqued my interest.

You're totally right about the Nitro match, it's my personal favorite match that's less than 10 minutes long, narrowly, and I mean very narrowly, beating out Angle vs Rey at SS02. I wonder what it could have become if they gave them 15 minutes instead of just 8. The intensity those two have is just unreal, that match is what wrestling is all about.

I have NOT seen the Eddie Tajiri match you were talking about, atleast I don't think I have. I have seen 2-3 matches with Eddie and Tajiri vs Team Angle but one was a Ladder match and the other was very good definitely not great, soi gotta find the one you mentioned. 

However, that Eddie Show match is fucking tits. I watch it all the time, just watched it last weekend actually. Eddies baby face performance is unparalleled.

Edit- is this the Benoit vs Eddie match you were talking about? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM&desktop_uri=/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

A Taker doc would be great, but I want a real doc, and not one with guys like Miz and Kofi sucking his dick the whole time. I want to hear real stories from Taker and his side of things.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TBH, I wonder what they would cover in the Taker doc? Would they start where his last one left off or would they go back from the beginning? I think they either need to make it some massive doc, or divide it into 2-3 1.5-2 hour docs and maybe fill in any holes his first one left out. 

Oh, and I'd love to hear about Taker's pre-wrestling days. Him growing up, school, etc. Not sure if there's any details on that kind of stuff anywhere aside from Taker's head and in the heads of people who knew him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> TBH, I wonder what they would cover in the Taker doc? Would they start where his last one left off or would they go back from the beginning? I think they either need to make it some massive doc, or divide it into 2-3 1.5-2 hour docs and maybe fill in any holes his first one left out.
> 
> Oh, and I'd love to hear about Taker's pre-wrestling days. Him growing up, school, etc. Not sure if there's any details on that kind of stuff anywhere aside from Taker's head and in the heads of people who knew him.


I'm assuming your talking about "My Yard", right? I seriously hope they would start from the beginning, that one was only an hour and glossed over his entire career pretty much, only highlighting 2-3 feuds. In order for me to be satisfied, I'd need it to be AT LEAST as long as the Bret Hart documentary (160 minutes) but preferably it would be 3 hours plus. I'd also like it to include atleast 3 discs of his matches, with 2 of the discs including his best matches as chosen by him, and another disc with 6-8 matches no one has really seen, rare gems in other words. He deserves a 4 disc set minimum WWE, please give it to us. Please.

On a side note, they should make a 2-3 disc set for Kane with the full 2 hour documentary treatment with candid interviews from Taker, Austin, Foley, etc. He deserves one as much as anybody not named Mark Callaway.

Any other documentaries you guys would like to see, or guys you think deserve one? I'd say Sting definitely, but the odds of that ever happening are slim to none unless by some miracle to signs with WWE for a few matches right before he retires. I also think the Macho Man Randy Savage absolutely should have one, along with Hogan. I know they have sets of their matches, but they need documentaries, they are founding fathers of the modern wrestling world. Jerry Lawler is another one who needs the full documentary treatment, along with Terry Funk.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> It's great to see someone else give Lawler the props he deserves, that man is a wrestling God, his match with Funk from 81' I believe is probably the greatest brawl I've ever seen, hands down. I need to watch some Lawler now you got me all excited.


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/11717994-post42.html

A post I made chronicling 22 of Lawler's best matches. Not every match will be on youtube/dailymotion but off memory quite a few off there still remain.

The Funk NO DQ brawl from 3/23/81 is indeed one of my favourite matches from both men. Would likely have it as the '81 US MOTY and off hand only Hansen/Andre from New Japan might be above it in terms of worldwide matches.




cjack828 said:


> You're totally right about the Nitro match, it's my personal favorite match that's less than 10 minutes long, narrowly, and I mean very narrowly, beating out Angle vs Rey at SS02. I wonder what it could have become if they gave them 15 minutes instead of just 8. The intensity those two have is just unreal, that match is what wrestling is all about.


Part of me thinks it being 8 minutes was for the better, as the overwhelming quality with a lack in abundance of time afforded always allows the match to truly stand out more in my opinion. Check out Benoit/Jericho from 12/30/96 as that's another sub ten minute match which is exceptional for what we're given.



cjack828 said:


> I have NOT seen the Eddie Tajiri match you were talking about, atleast I don't think I have. I have seen 2-3 matches with Eddie and Tajiri vs Team Angle but one was a Ladder match and the other was very good definitely not great, soi gotta find the one you mentioned.
> 
> However, that Eddie Show match is fucking tits. I watch it all the time, just watched it last weekend actually. Eddies baby face performance is unparalleled.


I believe the 5/22 isn't online sadly. They have a rematch on 5/29 and another on 7/3 which are both online in addition to the Ladder Match from Judgement Day. It's a shame since the 5/22 match is truly the best of the batch (5/29 is great in its own right mind you).

Both men are exceptional in Eddie/Show. Quite possibly one of the better David vs Goliath matches of the decade (heck probably THE best) and truly unique thanks to Eddie's creativity. It's matches and performances like that which typify Eddie's extremely unique ability to work basicly but still maximise and get the best out of anything he did in the ring.



cjack828 said:


> Edit- is this the Benoit vs Eddie match you were talking about? http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM&desktop_uri=/watch?v=o3Yq7CobGBM


That is indeed the match in question. Quite likely the best New Japan juniors match ever and only Liger/Sano '90 and a couple of the big Liger/Ohtani matches during the '96/'97 years might be better than it (I'm not 100% certain they are, but I haven't seen any of them for quite sometime so it wouldn't be fair to completely write off the probability).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Mom likes him because of his looks. Dad likes him more than he dislikes him. I think my dad is jealous of his hair, though.


Pretty much exactly how my parents felt about Rick Rude and Mr. Perfect back in the day haha.

As for the HHH doc I will buy it. Pretty excited for it. It will be wonderful but I'm a huge doc nerd. The matches they picked could have been better but I digress. 

HHH is Michael Jordan? The fuck? I mean all do respect to Trips here. I like him and there is no doubt he is one of the best heels of all time. One of the main dudes to ring in the attitude era. I don't wanna turn this into a best ever thread Buuuuuuut is he even on the same planet as Andre, Hogan, Austin, Flair, Bret Hart, Taker, Rock, HBK and Savage? Hell I'd even put guys like Eddie G and Jericho ahead of him. Maybe even Edge, Angle, Foley and Sting....with the last 2 there being a mark but still. I like HHH and he is steady in the top 11-20 range but Michael Jordan? What does that make HBK...Babe Ruth on steroids? Is Taker Jesus? Is Flair Superman? Is Austin Batman? The fuck Batista!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just to add to the lawler convo, this is one of my favs






Edit: Woolcock what happened to DEM starz :lol


----------



## azhkz (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao michael jordan of what ? stroking his ego and thinking he is on the same level as the flair/takers/hbk/austin of the world. Let me guess batista is the Kobe Bryant ?
> 
> that eddie/taji vs. team angle was a blast. I didnt watch the 'E in 03 but there arent many matches I believe that can top that match ? I love that eddie/show match


Dumbass! Triple H is already greater than flair/taker/hbk. The only reason Austin is ahead of him is because of his drawing power, that's it!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Woolcock what happened to DEM starz :lol


Aye some of those reviews were taken from 2011 and early 2012 when I still used ratings. Nowadays I don't really bother and would sooner just expand on what I liked/disliked about a match, rather than letting the rating in of itself dictate my views. I couldn't be arsed to cut the ratings out since quite a few people still rely on wading through reviews to see a rating, so figured it might be worth encouraging people to watch the matches if they saw a favourable rating.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

azhkz said:


> Dumbass! Triple H is already greater than flair/taker/hbk. The only reason Austin is ahead of him is because of his drawing power, that's it!


Oh Christ! :smokey

Give me some categories HHH is better than Austin. To each his/her own but just curious.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Eddie/Benoit might be the best juniors match ever. There are two Liger/Sanos fucking with it, I think the 8/94 Liger/Sasuke is a classic and I still love Liger/Samurai, but it's still a contender. I would call it Benoit's best match.



azhkz said:


> Dumbass! Triple H is already greater than flair/taker/hbk. The only reason Austin is ahead of him is because of his drawing power, that's it!


I can't tell if this guy's being ironic.


EDIT - Also Guerrero/Tajiri v. Team Angle 5/22/03 is online http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiu3wp_wgtt-vs-eddie-and-tajiri-smackdown-5-22-2003_sport


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Before I rip this guy to shreads idk if he is being sarcastic about the hhh thing

And Eddie/taji team angle 5/22 is online


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT - Also Guerrero/Tajiri v. Team Angle 5/22/03 is online http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xiu3wp_wgtt-vs-eddie-and-tajiri-smackdown-5-22-2003_sport


Sheeeeeit, I swear I searched high and dry a while back with no luck. Lifesaver


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched Eddie & Benoit vs Rock & Edge from August 2002 on Smackdown. Pretty good tag work by Eddie and Benoit as they dominate most of it until the hot tag to The Rock. Brock comes out to to distract Rock and it leads to Benoit making him tap. Loved how Brock was taunting Rock while he was in the Crossface. I'm in the mood for some TV match project for WWE in the past decade. Would be an interesting one for sure. ★★★½ for this one.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I just like to assume when someone says something stooopid that they are serious. That way I can laugh and point at them. I mean I could be like oh yeah I see where you are coming from and I agree. But then I'd be a mowwron too.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

Excited for that Triple H documentary

at Batista saying he's the Jordan of wrestling :ti


----------



## azhkz (Jan 3, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Oh Christ! :smokey
> 
> Give me some categories HHH is better than Austin. To each his/her own but just curious.


I already did, didn't I? Re-read it!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

azhkz said:


> I'm high on mushrooms


Fixed for you. Don't mention it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

azhkz said:


> I already did, didn't I? Re-read it!


Ok I checked his posts,this fucker isnt joking he is blindless HHH mark :lmao

1) get out of this thread noone whats a stupid troll
2) Its laughable to even compare HHH to the others said before
3) NEVER call me a dumb ass ever 

GIRL BYE ! insert Cameron smiley


@Woolcock I hear you man, just wondering because I saw **** at the end of the reviews. Checking out some of your list, have you seen the hbk match I posted before ? Thoughts


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Dolph Ziggler vs. Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 5/13/10: ***1/2*

Good match. It's a battle between Dolph's Sleeper Hold and Masters' Master Lock. The match begins with Masters using his strength advantage by overpowering Dolph. Dolph uses his speed to evade temporarily from Masters, but Chris catches him and gets the early advantage. Chris goes for the Master Lock early but Dolph quickly escapes. As Masters has Ziggler in an arm hold, Dolph attacks his legs for a bit but Masters throws him out. While Chris was making his way out of the ring, Dolph changes the momentum to his favor by drop kicking Masters in the head, with Masters dropping outside of the ring in the process. Dolph gets aggressive by hounding on Masters from punches to kicks and when Masters tries to make a comeback, Dolph would attack the legs. Dolph would as work on the arm so Masters couldn't execute the Master Lock properly. Masters makes a comeback and some good back and forth between the two with Ziggler trying to go for a quick pin. Ziggler goes for the Sleeper Hold, but Masters counters it into the Master Lock, but didn't get a full grip leading Dolph to drag his head into the turnbuckle, then going for the Zig-Zag and getting the victory. Overall, I really enjoyed this match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ not doing that match any justice, ziggly's 2nd best match in his career LOVE it


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ not doing that match any justice, ziggly's 2nd bet match in his career LOVE it


Just my opinion from watching it lol

What do you think is Ziggler's best match in his career? Me personally, it's his match against Daniel Bryan at Bragging Rights 2010. It opened the show and it stole the show with 16 minutes of good ol' wrestling.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I understand opinions and subjectivity, but I'll never understand any other answer for Dolph's best match besides vs. Del Rio at Payback. Try and explain it all you want, I won't understand. It's also Del Rio's best ever match, at least in the WWE, I've never seen any of his Dos Caras Jr. stuff.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I understand opinions and subjectivity, but I'll never understand any other answer for Dolph's best match besides vs. Del Rio at Payback. Try and explain it all you want, I won't understand. It's also Del Rio's best ever match, at least in the WWE, I've never seen any of his Dos Caras Jr. stuff.


To be fair, I never watched Dolph's match with Del Rio at Payback. I should though, heard great things about it and maybe it'll change my mind on what I think is Dolph's best match lol


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

In a Bret Hart mood so I'm watching the best there is set that came out. First match on the second disc is him and Steamboat at Boston Garden. Very very good 15 minute classic. As amazing as the Hart Foundation was I would have loved to see Bret as a singles heel in like 86-87. Going to watch his matches with Perfect and DiBiase in Odessa, Texas in 1989! I don't usually do this buuuuuut.... :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Just my opinion from watching it lol
> 
> What do you think is Ziggler's best match in his career? Me personally, it's his match against Daniel Bryan at Bragging Rights 2010. It opened the show and it stole the show with 16 minutes of good ol' wrestling.


Oh no I'm not disregarding your opinion just my ** rating would be higher but fuck **. Ahh best ziggler match ? Probably Payback with Del Rio, 

Funny I use to hate BR 10 because I thought it was just Ziggler working Bryan with mostly holds and bryan just coming back and win it as a fluke because Ziggler got frustrated for a second. I watched it with a new mentality and loved it and place it as one of the best openers ever.

I view it now as two guys just trying to tear the house down and make a name for themselves. Its surreal to see where they both are nowadays, two guys just trying to outdo each other and make ppl realize their the future and are damn good.

Yea Ziggler/Del Rio PB is out of this world and still my MOTY


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Oh no I'm not disregarding your opinion just my ** rating would be higher but fuck **. Ahh best ziggler match ? Probably Payback with Del Rio,
> 
> Funny I use to hate BR 10 because I thought it was just Ziggler working Bryan with mostly holds and bryan just coming back and win it as a fluke because Ziggler got frustrated for a second. I watched it with a new mentality and loved it and place it as one of the best openers ever.
> 
> ...


Imagine Dolph vs. Bryan for the WWE Championship? :mark: :mark: Give them 20-30 minutes and that could really tear the house down.

Btw, anyone have a link to Dolph vs. Del Rio at Payback? I don't want to be the only one that hasn't seen the match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Dolph dvd/blu ray set please WWE!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> Speaking of Rollins, has he ever had any straight up 1on 1 matches with Cesaro? I've only ever seen them in tags and 4 ways


ROH Bluegrass Brawl from 2010. Check it out. (Y)



WOOLCOCK said:


> Benoit/Eddie's best match will forever be the BOSJ '96 encounter for me.


This match is mentioned again and I'm still unsure of the actual date... 6/23 maybe? Idk, it's great regardless.

----------------------

If I had to pick a career match for Ziggler I'd probably put NWO '12 against Sheamus at the top, but I've never seen the Bryan match from Bragging Rights. Main Event matches against Sheamus & Del Rio also get a good shout and of course the Payback match. Can't forget about that RAW match with Punk from late 2011 either.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Date on Eddie/Benoit is 6/11.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone else not excited at all for the MSG set that dropped today? Nothing really sexy on it. The boot camp match with Sheikie Baby and Slaughter and Texas Death with Backlund/Patera but after that very bland. 

Excited as shit for the Mid South set. Looking at that lineup again makes me all warm and fuzzy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Anyone else not excited at all for the MSG set that dropped today? Nothing really sexy on it. The boot camp match with Sheikie Baby and Slaughter and Texas Death with Backlund/Patera but after that very bland.
> 
> Excited as shit for the Mid South set. Looking at that lineup again makes me all warm and fuzzy.


Yeah, pretty much agreed. I'll buy it on the Black Friday sale when they mark it down solely for Disc 1 and the Blu Ray extras but Discs 2 and 3 have far too many repeats and things I'm not that interested in. 

Mid South set? Yeah I'm buyin that shit the day it comes out. Looks fucking GREAT.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It'd be a good listing if they hadn't released 60% of that stuff before. OK, yeah, Michaels/Hall is great and a classic memorable moment, but it doesn't need to go on every DVD it's applicable for. Still, it does have Slaughter/Sheik and Backlund/Patera, which are arguably two of the top ten WWE matches ever. I've been saying for a few years Slaughter/Sheik is an honest #1 contender. Man I should really watch that again.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Imagine Dolph vs. Bryan for the WWE Championship? :mark: :mark: Give them 20-30 minutes and that could really tear the house down.
> 
> Btw, anyone have a link to Dolph vs. Del Rio at Payback? I don't want to be the only one that hasn't seen the match.


Sorry mate I downloaded it on my laptop, Yea that would be awesome, all they need is time and structure and they will tear the house down.

I just rewatched Ziggler/ADR PB for the second time and I dont know how to describe it. It still very very good but its so different than any other match in recent memory. Its still my MOTY, I dont know how to rating it though. Just the kicks by Del rio, selling by Ziggler, the aura, aj just everything. Props to Del RIo though he played his role perfectly

Their MITB is very good also tbh. I love those ME with Sheamus and Del Rio and pimp them all the time. Have watched NWO with fella in a while though


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> It'd be a good listing if they hadn't released 60% of that stuff before. OK, yeah, Michaels/Hall is great and a classic memorable moment, but it doesn't need to go on every DVD it's applicable for. Still, it does have Slaughter/Sheik and Backlund/Patera, which are arguably two of the top ten WWE matches ever. I've been saying for a few years Slaughter/Sheik is an honest #1 contender. Man I should really watch that again.


Agreed... that is my biggest problem with the MSG set is the repeats. Some matches just belong on certain sets (ex: Flair/Sting from the first CotC on the Clash set...one of my fave matches ever) but HBK/Razor is now on what like 7 sets? Geezus. Also, as much as I love HBK/Foley Mind Games (one of my fave matches ever) if it's on another set someone is asleep at the wheel. 

These sets are geared toward people like us on this forum (rasslin geeks) and with all the goodies in the vault the MSG set coulda been better. I'll buy it a year from now when it's like $10 on amazon.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Eddie/Benoit might be the best juniors match ever. There are two Liger/Sanos fucking with it, I think the 8/94 Liger/Sasuke is a classic and I still love Liger/Samurai, but it's still a contender. I would call it Benoit's best match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's been forever since I've seen Eddie/Benoit, thanks for reminding me about it guys. Oh and thanks for the link to that tag :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Why does everyone keep misspelling Benjamin by putting an O-I-T at the end of it?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Eddie/Benoit in Japan is :mark: 

Payback v Del Rio is Ziggler's best match by a mile.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie/Benoit is sex. Find it funny though how for Benoit, he probably had his weakest (or really, least strongest) matches in his WWE career with Guerrero. I was not a fan of the ONS 2005 or the Armageddon 2002 matches. Love the Vengeance one though. But the BOSJ one is sex. Definitely would not go as far as to say that it's the best match of either of their careers though. May not even be top ten for either of them, but that says more about how amazing both guys were.

The more I think about it, the more I love Ziggler/Del Rio. It won't happen for sure, but I would have loved to see Ziggler and Del Rio revisit their feud at Battleground where Ziggler wins the belt, and then have them finish their feud in a Hell in a Cell match with Ziggler going over. I just love their chemistry so much. What made Payback special for me besides the crowd, the double turn, Ziggler's babyface performance, and the subtleties that you notice after multiple watches was the fact that I haven't hated a heel like Del Rio in a long time. Heck, I actually liked face ADR throughout his run, but man that heel turn was perfect. It feels so weird to have faces you want to support and heels that you actually hate. Ever since that despicable 2005, I had a hard time supporting most of the babyfaces in feuds. The Payback match is probably my pick for fourth best match of the year, and it is very close to the greatness of both Punk/Cena and Undertaker/Punk. I also love their Main Event, MITB, and RAW matches even if some may argue that they are all the same.

Pillman/Badd Fall Brawl 95 is a must watch for everyone (*****1/2*). Great candidate for one of the best openers ever. Badd was not too special as usual, but Pillman puts on one of the best performances of his career. This is a face/face match, but Pillman's gradual shift into becoming more heelish as the match goes on is Guerrero-like, which is the highest compliment possible. Lengthy match, but I prefer long competitive lengthy matches over anything. Probably my favorite match in WCW in 1995, and certainly better than that good-but-overrated/disappointing Arn/Flair match from the same night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *Dolph Ziggler vs. Chris Masters - WWE Superstars 5/13/10: ***1/2*
> 
> Good match. It's a battle between Dolph's Sleeper Hold and Masters' Master Lock. The match begins with Masters using his strength advantage by overpowering Dolph. Dolph uses his speed to evade temporarily from Masters, but Chris catches him and gets the early advantage. Chris goes for the Master Lock early but Dolph quickly escapes. As Masters has Ziggler in an arm hold, Dolph attacks his legs for a bit but Masters throws him out. While Chris was making his way out of the ring, Dolph changes the momentum to his favor by drop kicking Masters in the head, with Masters dropping outside of the ring in the process. Dolph gets aggressive by hounding on Masters from punches to kicks and when Masters tries to make a comeback, Dolph would attack the legs. Dolph would as work on the arm so Masters couldn't execute the Master Lock properly. Masters makes a comeback and some good back and forth between the two with Ziggler trying to go for a quick pin. Ziggler goes for the Sleeper Hold, but Masters counters it into the Master Lock, but didn't get a full grip leading Dolph to drag his head into the turnbuckle, then going for the Zig-Zag and getting the victory. Overall, I really enjoyed this match.


Arguable pick for my favorite match of 2010. At least my favorite from Superstars and that program was gold for all twelve months.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I always thought Masters would be a bigger deal than he ended up being. I wonder if the E would bring him back someday. He was super young when he debuted. What like 22?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Somewhere around there. He's one of their bigger misses. No doubt. Along with Vance Archer & David Hart Smith. At least all managed to land on their feet post-WWE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

His back x rays looked disgusting.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd love to see David Hart Smith back someday. Another guy who just got a shot way too young. Doing well in Japan I hear.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh he's fabulous. Honestly have grown to prefer him over his Father.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching this. Another solid tag match from Raw in 2004. They just never stop, it's like there's a good one every week of that year.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh he's fabulous.


Definitely. Actually just rewatched his match vs Shinskay from 4/7 < 30 minutes ago. Guy is a tremendous talent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah. Was glad to see Nakamura vs Smith hold up when I rewatched Invasion Attack. Great match. Smith had some beauts in the Climax too. He's a stud.

---------

Good gem. Crazy how that match ended up being better than most of the Unforgiven '04 PPV.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I have been watching alot of 1997 lately and I'm starting to think that Davey Boy JR is a better wrestler then his father aswell.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This really makes me wanna watch some of DHS stuff in Japan. I have not done so. I thought Davey Boy was kind of underrated. When he was on he was damn good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like Smith, but I've always found him overrated to an extent. As if he's going to give you something great to the level of others who were clearly better than him. Then you have his craptastic work from 1998 & 1999 dragging him down. vs Bret @ Season's Beatings is something else. No doubt. Fabulous match.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh yeah. Was glad to see Nakamura vs Smith hold up when I rewatched Invasion Attack. Great match. Smith had some beauts in the Climax too. He's a stud.
> 
> ---------


actually thought he outworked Tanahashi in their G-1 match and I'm a huge Tana mark.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> This really makes me wanna watch some of DHS stuff in Japan. I have not done so. I thought Davey Boy was kind of underrated. When he was on he was damn good.


You need to do so asap, you should just watch New Japan in general.

You are rarely disappointed and the wrestling is always top notch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> actually thought he outworked Tanahashi in their G-1 match and I'm a huge Tana mark.


I can see that. It really was more about Smith getting his time to shine & Tanahashi doing his normal stuff - which is great all on its own - as the match progressed. I was a bit burnt out when I first watched it and thought it was only "pretty good". The rewatches following were a must. Think really highly of the match now. Off the top of my head I'd probably say my favorite Smith match of the entire tournament was vs Kojima. That was a wallop of a sprint.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Pillman/Badd Fall Brawl 95 is a must watch for everyone (*****1/2*). Great candidate for one of the best openers ever. Badd was not too special as usual, but Pillman puts on one of the best performances of his career. This is a face/face match, but Pillman's gradual shift into becoming more heelish as the match goes on is Guerrero-like, which is the highest compliment possible. Lengthy match, but I prefer long competitive lengthy matches over anything. Probably my favorite match in WCW in 1995, and certainly better than that good-but-overrated/disappointing Arn/Flair match from the same night.


Don't agree with the rating, but I agree with the rest. Great, great match. ***3/4 for that and trumps over Arn/Flair. Felt it went on too long so it took a hit. Very well worked and definately kickstarted both mens career into another direction. Shame for WCW that the WWF was the main beneficiary.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The first time I saw that match it blew my mind, still one of my favorite matches I have seen from WCW.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Any idea why they dont do 8 man tags anymore?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I can see that. It really was more about Smith getting his time to shine & Tanahashi doing his normal stuff - which is great all on its own - as the match progressed. I was a bit burnt out when I first watched it and thought it was only "pretty good". The rewatches following were a must. Think really highly of the match now. Off the top of my head I'd probably say my favorite Smith match of the entire tournament was vs Kojima. That was a wallop of a sprint.


Could you recommend a couple of Smith's best matches, never seen anything if Davey's boy


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I like Smith, but I've always found him overrated to an extent. As if he's going to give you something great to the level of others who were clearly better than him. Then you have his craptastic work from 1998 & 1999 dragging him down. *vs Bret @ Season's Beatings is something else. No doubt. Fabulous match.*


About fucking time someone praises this 

Another good Davey Boy match is vs Shawn from One Night Only.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Could you recommend a couple of Smith's best matches, never seen anything if Davey's boy


WWE: (only doing singles for more exposure on him, fyi)

vs Finlay (ECW 5/19/09)
vs Christian (ECW 6/16/09)
vs Matt Hardy (Superstars 11/12/09)
vs Tyson Kidd (Superstars 12/2/10)
vs William Regal (Superstars 12/30/10)

NJPW:

w/Lance Archer vs TenKoji (King of Pro Wrestling 10/8/12)
w/Lance Archer vs Karl Anderson & Hirooki Goto (Wrestle Kingdom VII 1/4/13)
w/Lance Archer vs Shinsuke Nakamura & Tomohiro Ishii (Road to Invasion Attack 4/5/13)
vs Shinsuke Nakamura (Invasion Attack 4/7/13 - also their first on 3/11/13 to build towards the IA match.)
vs Katsuyori Shibata (G1 Climax 23 Day One 8/1/13)
vs Togi Makabe (G1 Climax 23 Day Two 8/2/13)
vs Hiroshi Tanahashi (G1 Climax 23 Day Three 8/3/13)
vs Satoshi Kojima (G1 Climax 23 Day Four 8/4/13)
vs Kazuchika Okada (G1 Climax 23 Day Five 8/6/13)
vs Tomohiro Ishii (G1 Climax 23 Day Six 8/6/13)

Much like the majority of the lot, he really shined in his G1 matches. Six awesome matches pumped out in seven days.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Btw, anyone have a link to Dolph vs. Del Rio at Payback? I don't want to be the only one that hasn't seen the match.


Here you go, in great quality:
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/M2B4Ad2WoSA/

You might want to pause it and let the grey bar fill some, so it doesn't keep pausing. Also, I find that videos on that site are best to watch after a fresh reboot. 

On a side-note, after watching that again recently, I realized that the allegations that Del Rio gets crickets are untrue. Someone in the Unpopular Opinions thread said the same thing, and they said that at the house show they were at, Del Rio got a pretty sizable reaction.

Watching this again, Del Rio gets quite a bit of cheers, even despite the fact that it was a smarky city. And there was a legitimate pop when he won.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio as a face actually got him a reaction, that's why. Go back to the 2010, 2011, & even 2012 days. Not much there at all. HIAC 2011; yikes. Legit dead silence. The guy is in a MUCH better place these days. Character, work, reactions _(albeit nothing special until the action actually goes down)_. It's just a problem that it's too little, too late. Understandably so.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> About fucking time someone praises this
> 
> Another good Davey Boy match is vs Shawn from One Night Only.


I love the Season's Beatings match, Davey Boy more than held his own in that contest, and Bret's blading was so slick the first time I watched that match I legit thought he had hit his head on the steps. Cool back story to it, apparently Bret was looking for a neat roll up to end the match, as the Sharpshooter was too definitive, and he just so happened to attend a Stampede event in Calgary. He saw Chris Jericho there, and since he knew about Jericho and knew he'd wrestled in Mexico (where everyone does cool roll ups) he asked Jericho if he knew any that would work for the match. So Jericho taught him the magistral cradle, and that's what Bret ended up using in the match. I always thought that was neat.

His ONO match with HBK is pretty awesome too, man that crowd was so hot when they screwed Davey for the European title like that. HBK looked like he was standing in a blizzard of garbage as he was walking back up the aisle.

My favorite Davey Boy match will probably always be the British Bulldogs vs the Hart Foundation at Madison Square Garden in 1986. Davey was a very good singles wrestler who could really go when he was in the ring with the right opponent, but his stuff as a member of the British Bulldogs tag team will always be my favorite, that tag team in 1986 is probably my favorite team ever.


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Any idea why they dont do 8 man tags anymore?


Not been many logical choices in recent times to throw that many people into a match and that's apart of the Survivor Series gimmick they might want to protect. 

Expect to see a fair few in the coming months though with SHIELD+Orton vs Babyfaces.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> WWE: (only doing singles for more exposure on him, fyi)
> 
> vs Finlay (ECW 5/19/09)
> vs Christian (ECW 6/16/09)
> ...


Thankyou, I'll try and find links to those Tanahashi and Okada matches, wouldn't mind seeing those first.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eight man tags have always been a novelty in WWF/WWE _(and NWA)_. Only reason to see them is if it pertains to the scenario at hand. IE faction warfare or one collective group vs another. Then you have the "big man showcases" with one team of four huge faces vs one team of four big heels duking it out. Understandable for WWE not to throw these up willy nilly, despite them doing so in the past. Which was rather awful, mind you. Six mans treat that scenario better since those are more common in American wrestling to give a grudge a new wrinkle; while Eight man Atomicos are usually kept to have some strong emphasis behind it. Of course this is the role reversal in Lucha Libre. Trios & Atomicos are frequent while the singles matches are more of the special attraction.

-----------

Every night of the Climax is up on youtube & dailymotion. As are all the matches I listed, tbhayley. Should be an easy search for you to check 'em out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as pure storytelling is concerned (not the whole match, just storytelling), do y'all prefer Punk/Taker, Dolph/Alberto or Punk/Lesnar?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Dolph/Alberto had a perfect storytelling, same with Punk/Taker, but Punk/Lesnar was from aotuer world.

Best Ryback match? His match with Bryan from SD this May, imo. ***3/4 for that match


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Storytelling IS a match.

Anything outside of the story being told is merely nuts and bolts, as wrestling at it's core is 100 percent pure storytelling. It's why I think John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar is one of the greatest atches ever despite being slow and methodical, and why I think The Rock Vs CM Punk is one of the worst big matches ever despite having a slow and methodical pace as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only saw Undertaker vs Punker once. I could say I prefer it b/c well, it's Undertaker vs Punk @ WrestleMania. Says it all right there. Dolph vs Del Rio hit me like a ton of bricks on the live viewing and I'll never forget that. Match is brilliant. Punk vs Lesnar, some more different personal feeling for that one too. Guess I'll pick that solely for feeling the emotion as it happened. Besides, I find it to be a flawless match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

John Cena vs Brock Lesnar was better than Lesnar/Punk, imo


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@KOK, storytelling IS a match yeah, but the wrestling itself obviously counts too  I mean, Rock/Punk I didn't have Godawful storytelling but the wrestling itself alone was horrendous enough to push it to DUD levels.

Apparently the WWE is trying to get Taker to wrestle at Survivor Series this year, alongside Kane against the Wyatts. Also, soon they'll have Punk join Daniel Bryan in the feud against the New Corporation :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just don't know anymore man; Punk Vs Lesnar at the end of the day could get into that ELITE few matches that I consider to be one of the greatest ever. It's the only time that during a match I said to myself "this match is amazing" in a really, really, really long fucking time. I mean, it took me multiple viewings to appreciate how Cena-BROCK is on a different planet than 99.9 percent of WWE bouts, but Punk-Brock I got "Top 10 WWE Match EVER" vibes WHILE I was watching it in the first place.

I really need to watch that match again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> John Cena vs Brock Lesnar was better than Lesnar/Punk, imo



That match is very good, I might even say great, but by no means do I think it is one of Brock's best matches or Cena's best matches. The story being told is pretty cool, I get it, it just didn't do anything for me because I knew Cena was just gonna fire up a superman comeback in the end and win like he always does. It totally spoiled it for me, if they wanted to do it right in my mind they should have let Brock squash Cena and actually win, that might have actually shocked me. Seeing a few drops of blood on Cena's head wasn't shocking (although Brock licking the blood off his fingers was, eww). I liked that match well enough, but for me Lesnar vs Punk is Brock's magnum opus, his swan song, his Homer's Oddyssey, all in one. What a perfect match that was, ill never forget it, it was a truly great piece of work, with BRILLIANT performances by two masters, with a perfectly booked finish. His match with Cena doesn't come close to that, in my mind at least.

Edit- I will also say, Lesnar vs Punk gave me almost the same feeling I got watching Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at Mania25. That feeling where you are just thinking to yourself "this is what greatness is all about. This is why I fucking love wrestling." I was down right giddy watching that Mania match, I was downright giddy watching Lesnar toss Punk around at Summerslam. Very very fun to experience a match like that for the first time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> As far as pure storytelling is concerned (not the whole match, just storytelling), do y'all prefer Punk/Taker, Dolph/Alberto or Punk/Lesnar?


I'd pick Ziggler/Del Rio from that bunch on pure storytelling. Brilliant double turn. Punk/Taker & Punk/Lesnar are both better matches though.

Cena/Lesnar is indeed > Punk/Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All I know is, I loved all four matches in question. Great, fabulous, amazing, perfect. They can all fit. The last one only for a select few. Still...the adjectives for appraisal are endless.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> That match is very good, I might even say great, but by no means do I think it is one of Brock's best matches or Cena's best matches. The story being told is pretty cool, I get it, it just didn't do anything for me because I knew Cena was just gonna fire up a superman comeback in the end and win like he always does. It totally spoiled it for me, if they wanted to do it right in my mind they should have let Brock squash Cena and actually win, that might have actually shocked me. Seeing a few drops of blood on Cena's head wasn't shocking (although Brock licking the blood off his fingers was, eww). I liked that match well enough, but for me Lesnar vs Punk is Brock's magnum opus, his swan song, his Homer's Oddyssey, all in one. What a perfect match that was, ill never forget it, it was a truly great piece of work, with BRILLIANT performances by two masters, with a perfectly booked finish. His match with Cena doesn't come close to that, in my mind at least.
> 
> Edit- I will also say, Lesnar vs Punk gave me almost the same feeling I got watching Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels at Mania25. That feeling where you are just thinking to yourself "this is what greatness is all about. This is why I fucking love wrestling." I was down right giddy watching that Mania match, I was downright giddy watching Lesnar toss Punk around at Summerslam. Very very fun to experience a match like that for the first time.


Cena/Lesnar was so impressive, because Brock worked the match 100% MMA style, it felt like a UFC vs WWE Match between their top stars. Cena's babyface work was incredible, and Brock was fantastic, the greatest return match of all time, I'd say. The ending was great too, Brock destroys Cena the whole match and then he makes only one little mistake and Cena capitalizes with that chain shot. It was not a Super Cena match, he never dominated Brock, he just found an opportunity to put the Beast down and he did it. Perfect storytelling


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody give me a three disc set to watch.

I NEED TO WATCH SOME WRESTLING BAH GAWD.

& I think it's insane that the WWE MOTY for three years in a row will feature ONLY John Cena, Brock Lesnar, and CM Punk. BEAST.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tombstone: The History of The Undertaker.

Boosh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Lesnar's storytelling alone placed it up to the ***** rating to me. It's just that fucking epic. But nothing to take out of the 2013 trio - Taker/Punk's awesome subtle touches, Dolph/Alberto's emotional connection with you and Punk/Lesnar's "This is fucking wrestling" feeling were amazing on their own.

And just for the sake of discussion - Punk/Jericho from Raw 2/2 or Payback?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The RAW match by a massive landslide. Payback is awful.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Tombstone: The History of The Undertaker.
> 
> Boosh.


I own that set, the streak set, and The deadliest matches set, and I can say Tombstone is probably the best set out of the 3. The 3rd and 4th discs on the streak set are pure gold, but all 3 on Tombstone rock. The deadman is in a league entirely his own. People can say espouse the virtues of HBK all they want, and they wouldn't be wrong because he is a truly great performer. But for my money, nobody tops the deadman, the greatest WWE superstar of all time in my book. His matches will never ever cease to be the gold standard for what professional wrestling ought to be.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Can't seem to find Tombstone (even though I own it, my DVDs are kind of a mess right now), but I managed to find The Streak, Deadliest Matches, & even the dreaded 15-0.

I get the point though, nonstop quality; will THE BIGGEST LITTLE MAN do?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody tops Taker. Although Foley is mighty close. I can accept that argument.

And yep. Mysterio will do. Super Calo match please.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If undertaker is the 24 karat gold standard, then foley has to be atleast the 18 karat gold standard haha. I love them both just about equally. Speaking of the Micker, you can go for his Greatest Hits and Misses: Bonus Hardcore Edition as your 3 disc set, OR you can go with For All Mankind as your 3 disc set. Hits and Misses has the better matches, but most of them you have probably seen if you are any sort of decent wrestling/foley fan. For All Mankind has a brilliant 2+ hour documentary and some lesser known gems from the Foley era. It also includes his Cell Match with Hunter, which is second only to their match at Royal Rumble for best Hunter match ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What made Foley's doc set again? I'm too lazy to look it up. Watched the doc not long ago. Its great, as expected. Vader getting a nice chunk of interview time and exposure on that program left me feeling warm and fuzzy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> What made Foley's doc set again? I'm too lazy to look it up. Watched the doc not long ago. Its great, as expected. Vader getting a nice chunk of interview time and exposure on that program left me feeling warm and fuzzy.



His first match with les Thornton against the bulldogs, submit or surrender vs sting, falls count anywhere vs van hammer, barbed wire match vs sandman, cyber slam vs Shane Douglas, cold day in hell vs rocky Maivia, Canadien stampede vs hunter, dude love vs Maivia, hell in a cell vs taker(duh, has to be in every foley and taker set I guess haha), with Kane vs new age outlaws, rock bottom vs the rock, rock n sock vs trips and Shane, and then hell in a cell with hunter.

Then there are 3-4 matches from his AWA/USWA days. None of the matches are bad from his early days but he doesn't really start becoming MICK FUCKING FOLEY until around 1992-1993.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think that "Greatest Hits & Misses - Hardcore Edition" is leaps and bounds ahead of the "For All Mankind" set, despite the latter having a stellar documentary and one of the greatest ever. Just too much quality as a whole on the former for me to bat an eye at it, with the third disc being a wonderful supplement to the main feature. Didn't like Foley's second match listing besides a few good gems.

Best match listings ever on a DVD?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> His first match with les Thornton against the bulldogs, submit or surrender vs sting, falls count anywhere vs van hammer, barbed wire match vs sandman, cyber slam vs Shane Douglas, cold day in hell vs rocky Maivia, Canadien stampede vs hunter, dude love vs Maivia, hell in a cell vs taker(duh, has to be in every foley and taker set I guess haha), with Kane vs new age outlaws, rock bottom vs the rock, rock n sock vs trips and Shane, and then he'll in a cell with hunter.
> 
> Then there are 3-4 matches from his AwAUSWA days.


(Y)

Splendid. They really did add more of the gems. Love that. Another match vs Helmsley made a set. :mark: I hope it includes the post match brawl that went throughout the night.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I think that "Greatest Hits & Misses - Hardcore Edition" is leaps and bounds ahead of the "For All Mankind" set, despite the latter having a stellar documentary and one of the greatest ever. Just too much quality as a whole on the former for me to bat an eye at it, with the third disc being a wonderful supplement to the main feature. Didn't like Foley's second match listing besides a few good gems.
> 
> Best match listings ever on a DVD?


Basically every set that we've said on this page. Ric Flair's sets too. Feeling lazy to think of the others. Punk's was massively brilliant. The final disc only had about five matches but all were epics.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I think that "Greatest Hits & Misses - Hardcore Edition" is leaps and bounds ahead of the "For All Mankind" set, despite the latter having a stellar documentary and one of the greatest ever. Just too much quality as a whole on the former for me to bat an eye at it, with the third disc being a wonderful supplement to the main feature. Didn't like Foley's second match listing besides a few good gems.
> 
> Best match listings ever on a DVD?



You're totally right, of course, he loaded his Hits and Misses set with all his best matches minus the cell match with hunter. I just wish they would give us more cactus jack vs Vader matches, on either set. That feud caused me to switch over from WWE to WCW in the early 90s for the first time (I was a HUGE Randy Savage fan so I always watched WWE even though I live in Northern Va so i got both shows on cable). That feud made me swear up and down in my little 8 year old mind that wrestling was 100% authentic and not scripted hahaha. 

I say Greatest Hits and Misses has the best match selection of anyDVD set every made, and that's because I'm a 100% biased Foley fan who would pay $50 right now to watch him wrestle a broom. But it's also because its true, you can't do any better than Greatest Hits and Misses Bonus Edition for a match listing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Biggest Little Man could be argued as the GOAT, if not, its fucking close. Near perfect IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The bloody Havoc match not making a set is the only drawback.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret's DVD is fucking AMAZING and probably the best match list out there for me in terms of mixing quantity with quality; while every single match on the set is at least really fucking good, it also has some of the greatest WWF/WWE matches EVER on it.

Season's Beatings? Survivor Series W/ Diesel? The Perfect Matches? AUSTIN? Steaboat & Dibiase? Killer Bees?

Fuck.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Bret's DVD is fucking AMAZING and probably the best match list out there for me in terms of mixing quantity with quality; while every single match on the set is at least really fucking good, it also has some of the greatest WWF/WWE matches EVER on it.
> 
> Season's Beatings? Survivor Series W/ Diesel? The Perfect Matches? AUSTIN? Steaboat & Dibiase? Killer Bees?
> 
> Fuck.


You left out the excellent British Bulldogs match from the garden in 1986, AND the great Rockers Match. I also really enjoyed the Nasty Boys bout. The Killer Bees match is otherworldly, one of my favorite tag matches ever along with that Bulldogs match. Bret's set is #2 on my list, behind only Michael Francis Foley's Greatest Hits.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only two matches I dislike on the whole set. With the rest being ones I adore. Damn fine stuff. They picked the best of the best. the Bigelow match is a nifty gem. However I would have preferred the KOTR finals. Luckily that made the KOTR set. _(didn't it?)_


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah it made the KOTR set, one of the only highlights of that abysmal offering though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did the Austin/Mero 1996 match make the KOTR set?

Personally, since we talkin' DVD's, I loved the McMahon documentary DVD released back in Summer '06. Awesome deep look into the Mr McMahon character.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They didn't put Owen vs Kid on that set. Sweet jesus.

Looked at it again and yeah, way too many matches that are on DVD already made that set. Bogus move. We should have had more gems make the cut. The finals are all logical. Although it is dubbed "best of" & not "History of the KOTR". Blu-Ray picks are solid. There is that silver lining.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Only two matches I dislike on the whole set. With the rest being ones I adore. Damn fine stuff. They picked the best of the best. the Bigelow match is a nifty gem. However I would have preferred the KOTR finals. Luckily that made the KOTR set. _(didn't it?)_


Oh boy did it ever, that's my favorite Bammer match ever, a true masterpiece. Bammer just KILLS Bret in that match, and Bret's come back/victory roll in the end :mark:

I'd also have to put the Benoit set as one of the best match quality wise. Every single match on that disc I would rate as "out fucking standing" to "holy shit I need to change my boxers". That Sasuke match????:mark:. His match with Eddie from Nitro in 96' is one of the best sub 10 minute matches ever, and I LOVE the match with Kevin Sullivan on there, I hadn't seen that one before.

And finally Viva la Raza, the Guerrero set, definitely deserves mentioning. I hadn't been able to sit through the Judgement Day match with JBL the first time I saw it, I've been in an accident with a saw where I lost a lot of blood and it just made me way top squeemish trying to watch it at first. Someone on this forum (can't remember who it was) talked me into trying to watch it again, and I finished that match as blown away as I ever have been by any match I can remember seeing. That match alone makes the set worth it, but the fact that 4 out of every 5 matches on that set are brilliant, and the others are still very very good, makes me think it deserves commendation. I don't hide the fact that Eddie is my personal favorite wrestler, so of course I have a bit of a bias. But if anyone can watch all the matches on the 3 DVDs and not come away saying " Eddie Guerrero is a special, special, performer. One of the best to ever do it" then I don't know what is wrong with you. The only match I'm pissed it doesn't have is their 6/23 Smackdown match with Rey, they included the steel cage match instead (which is still awesome, and Eddie finally beat Rey).


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck that MSG set man.

Can we just get a series like "Best of WWE Unreleased Vol WHATEVER" or something so we can stop with all of these repeats? I'm sick of seeing the same fucking matches on every single DVD set known to man. I mean, the Wrestlemania X ladder match has been on like 6 or 7 DVD releases, WHAT THE FUCK?

Some of these DVDs have been downright insulting lately, Top 25 Rivalries/MSG/Money in the Bank Anthology/ETC. We are however getting HHH, Goldberg, Mid South, and we've gotten Unreleased ECW sets and War Games.... We're doing okay.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I take all the credit for pimping Eddie vs JBL to you, good sir. :hayley3

Still have to watch the Viva La Raza set. Today? I think it is a good day. Benoit's set is obviously dope. The Sasuke match alone is enough. While I do LOVE how it has the New Japan bouts on it, the ultimate match showing Al Snow as a boss, the abundance of WCW work, I did feel ever so slightly slighted (get it?) on the WWF Championship match vs The Rock not making it. Or the Smackdown match vs Austin. Instead we get the matches vs Angle and that's it. Didn't have to name the triple threat b/c, c'mon. Of course that makes it. The WWE matches were trimmed drastically. A compliment to his work elsewhere, yet a chance lost at having so many rare classics put on DVD themselves. If only a new set could be made. If only.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I take all the credit for pimping Eddie vs JBL to you, good sir. :hayley3
> 
> Still have to watch the Viva La Raza set. Today? I think it is a good day. Benoit's set is obviously dope. The Sasuke match alone is enough. While I do LOVE how it has the New Japan bouts on it, the ultimate match showing Al Snow as a boss, the abundance of WCW work, I did feel ever so slightly slighted (get it?) on the WWF Championship match vs The Rock not making it. Or the Smackdown match vs Austin. Instead we get the matches vs Angle and that's it. Didn't have to name the triple threat b/c, c'mon. Of course that makes it. The WWE matches were trimmed drastically. A compliment to his work elsewhere, yet a chance lost at having so many rare classics put on DVD themselves. If only a new set could be made. If only.



That's right it was you, much appreciated sir, very much appreciated.

I could pimp that entire Guerrero set, in fact I think for my first write up on this forum I will do just that. His match with RVD at Backlash and the No DQ with Edge on Smackdown are absolutely tremendous. I don't know how big a fan you are of either those guys (both are sorta meh to me, although RVD def has his moments) so I wanna make sure you don't breeze over those because they are seriously worth a watch. The ECW/WCW portion could have been ALOT better, but they couldn't include his Benoit stuff so it's somewhat understandable. All matches are atleast very good like I said. It even has that sweet match vs Ohtani from Starrcade, and the good match with Ultimo around 1998 I believe.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> They didn't put Owen vs Kid on that set. Sweet jesus.
> 
> Looked at it again and yeah, way too many matches that are on DVD already made that set. Bogus move. We should have had more gems make the cut. The finals are all logical. Although it is dubbed "best of" & not "History of the KOTR". Blu-Ray picks are solid. There is that silver lining.


I'm sure Hart/Hennig isn't on that KOTR DVD either. 



HayleySabin said:


> The WWE matches were trimmed drastically.


By 'trimmed' do you mean cut in some way. I don't think i've ever watched the WWE matches directly on the Benoit set.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

One of these days I'm going to buy the 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp Cal has in his possession. That & the 37 disc Terry Funk set won't be watched until 2016 because I'm terrible for committing to projects mind you.


----------



## xD7oom (May 25, 2012)

Can't wait :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp Cal has in his possession. That & the 37 disc Terry Funk set


Who, what, where?!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WOOLCOCK said:


> One of these days I'm going to buy the 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp Cal has in his possession. That & the 37 disc Terry Funk set won't be watched until 2016 because I'm terrible for committing to projects mind you.


Funnily enough, i want those too. If he ever gets up and running again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Man, if its the same set I'm thinking of, the massive one from wrestle tapes.net, then I'm planning on buying it with my Bday money because today's my birthday. I was just hoping someone else had bought from that guy before to make sure he is reliable.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Who, what, where?!


http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/comps.html

Eddie Guerrero 36 Disc Match List

Terry Funk 37 Disc Match List


I am not responsible for the change of underwear you'll likely require after reading both of those btw.


FWIW Seabs is also a godsend in terms of comps and like Cal offers a reasonable and economical price and is as trustworthy as they come in terms of delivery.

http://www.seabscomps.webs.com/ (seabs' site)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Second what Wooly says, Seabs is a fucking legend too, really top bloke.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/comps.html
> 
> Eddie Guerrero 36 Disc Match List
> 
> ...



How can I get in touch with Cal to order than Guerrero set? I don't see anywhere to order on that site.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Shoot him a PM on here I'd imagine.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> That's right it was you, much appreciated sir, very much appreciated.
> 
> I could pimp that entire Guerrero set, in fact I think for my first write up on this forum I will do just that. His match with RVD at Backlash and the No DQ with Edge on Smackdown are absolutely tremendous. I don't know how big a fan you are of either those guys (both are sorta meh to me, although RVD def has his moments) so I wanna make sure you don't breeze over those because they are seriously worth a watch. The ECW/WCW portion could have been ALOT better, but they couldn't include his Benoit stuff so it's somewhat understandable. All matches are atleast very good like I said. It even has that sweet match vs Ohtani from Starrcade, and the good match with Ultimo around 1998 I believe.


Don't remember much from the Backlash match, but I have the Edge No DQ match via the Smackdown set. It's good. Personally, I don't think it is nearly as good as everyone says it is. Some portions were a bit too reliant on the spots more than the story. It's still good like I said & Eddie takes some sick bumps. For the record I like both RVD & Edge. Better to say I love RVD. Always been a big supporter. Did think the WCW selection should have been wider. It was the reverse Benoit set dilemma here. No bother. It does have Eddie vs Psychosis. That's always gold. Ohtani match is great but wished it was something else as that match was released _(the same year I believe too)_ as the Starrcade set. Hate those doubles. The Ultimo match made it? From Slamboree? Holy hell. Good match with a crap that I recall being dead, dead, dead. That's too bad. Earlier in the night they had the biggest pop ever for Malenko going to own Jericho. Why'd they die? Eddie & Ultimo always got a great reaction from fans.



zep81 said:


> By 'trimmed' do you mean cut in some way. I don't think i've ever watched the WWE matches directly on the Benoit set.


Meant they only added three WWF/WWE matches to the set. They're shown in full, of course.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I don't think he is selling/trading atm tbh.

EDIT: Oh, thanks Hayley.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK.

Malenko Vs Mysterio from GAB 1996 rules, as well as their Nitro rematch.

Thought the Dragon match at Hog Wild was great as well, but I thought it got a little too spotty but I don't know. Hasn't been anything less than good so far, the SUPER CALO match is next from Fall Brawl, I'm fucking pumped.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Don't remember much from the Backlash match, but I have the Edge No DQ match via the Smackdown set. It's good. Personally, I don't think it is nearly as good as everyone says it is. Some portions were a bit too reliant on the spots more than the story. It's still good like I said & Eddie takes some sick bumps. For the record I like both RVD & Edge. Better to say I love RVD. Always been a big supporter. Did think the WCW selection should have been wider. It was the reverse Benoit set dilemma here. No bother. It does have Eddie vs Psychosis. That's always gold. Ohtani match is great but wished it was something else as that match was released _(the same year I believe too)_ as the Starrcade set. Hate those doubles. The Ultimo match made it? From Slamboree? Holy hell. Good match with a crap that I recall being dead, dead, dead. That's too bad. Earlier in the night they had the biggest pop ever for Malenko going to own Jericho. Why'd they die? Eddie & Ultimo always got a great reaction from fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Meant they only added three WWF/WWE matches to the set. They're shown in full, of course.


For me, the ending is what made the No DQ match with Edge so memorable. Eddie gets his wig split open (100% legitimately I might add) on top of the ladder by Edge, then Edge proceeds to give him an Edgucation off the top of the ladder for the 1-2-3. Edge exits the area, while a bloody Eddie lays in the center of the ring utterly spent. Suddenly a slow applause starts to build and turns into a full blown standing ovation with chants of "Eddie, Eddie, Eddie" filling the arena. He sits up and acknowledges the crowd and saunters off down the aisle, looking like the Mexican version of "Man with no name" from the Dollars trilogy (an utter badass for you western newbies).

Man that always gets me, Eddie was full blown heel at this point, so a reaction like that is almost unheard of. It's just so hard to hate Eddie after you watch him for a while. Even when he turned heel again in 05', he was really only getting booed because the crowd knew it was supposed to. Eddies performance as a heel is some of the best stuff you will see in a wrestling ring (the "clean break" he gives Rey in their 6/23 SmackDown match? So effing great).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best ending ever right there.

I think the Ultimo match from Hog Wild is great. Their match from World War III '96 is >. Thankfully that is on the Greatest High Flyers set.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Some of my fave WWE sets...

Really love the Bret set. Watched that last night. Some amazing tag matches (Bees, Dogs, Rockers and Nastys)...Perfect matches, Diesel, Austin, Owen at WM 10, Owen tribute show match with Pegasus, etc.....fantastic set, maybe even flawless

Tombstone is near perfect....add No Way Out vs Angle and something rare from like 91 and maybe a casket match with Goldust in 96 and you'd have a perfect set IMHO

Foley greatest hits is amazing, as is the KotR set and IYH set.....I really like the first Rock set that came out too

Love love the Savage set...if it had DiBiase at Wrestlefest in 88 it would be the best set ever, hell it still might be....also wish it had more 86 stuff like Savage vs JYD, Dynamite Kid or Steamboat (before WM3)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Best ending ever right there.
> 
> I think the Ultimo match from Hog Wild is great. Their match from World War III '96 is >. Thankfully that is on the Greatest High Flyers set.



Yep the Ultimo match on that set from Slamboree is on their, it's my favorite from the 2 of them but I haven't seen WWIII 96' so Ill have to check that out. If you watch that Slamboree match, it would appear that Daniel Bryan vs John Cena at Summerslam might have lifted that bridging spot from this match. Although I'm sure that spot was done elsewhere this is just the only other match I had seen it.

I almost forgot to mention, the La Raza set has what I would rate as a top 5 FUN match of all time, the Latino Heat Parking Lot Brawl. Just 10 minutes or Eddie and John beating the ever loving shit out of each other, slamming each other into cars, through windshields, onto concrete. It's sheer pandemonium. Eddie freaking chokes Cena with a seat belt then burns him with a friggin cigarette lighter :lmao

Best part is the lawn mower spot. I can't even figure out what Cena and Eddie were hoping to accomplish with a friggin lawn mower, you're guess is as good as mine (maybe go Living Dead style with it?) but it never ceases to crack me up. I'm sure you have seen this beauty of a match, but for sheer entertainment purposes I urge you to watch it again. It's only about 10 minutes, but it's 10 of the most physically emtertaining minutes in all of wrestling.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Like I have posted before I'm a huge sports nut, and I read the site grantland.com all the time. The masked man writes WWE articles for them, and they are all brilliant. Here is his most recent one: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9609037/wwe-villains-supposed-make-mad-cheer-about


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Decided to post out a few WCW 95 matches before I get into Halloween Havoc '95. I am forgetting 1-2 decent matches but didn't like my reviews on 'em too much, so fuck em. Decent run of quality in these past few weeks. Definately showed that while Hogan was taking a trip into the valley of the dungeon of doom brother, for all his Hulkamaniacs brother, that WCW had some watchable quality in '95. Match of the lot though? Savage vs Kurusawa. Loved it.

*Randy Savage vs Lex Luger Nitro 2nd of October 95*

Ah, this match started nicely. Well, once they returned from commercial. Went straight into trying to hurt each other. Get back into the ring after that and it takes a slight hit. Savage ending it early with a small package? Why? The attempts of trying to overpower each other is rather weird too. Lack of cut-throat after some early promise. When Savage is between spots, he has the right idea. Can feel the intensity into everything. He's delivering his moves, whether it's throwing Luger outside, the elbows, his axe handles, with some vicious intent. Bit of a weird ref spot, but it's all cue for THE GIANT to kill Savage with a chokeslam straight from the heavens.
Good match for a 10 minute bout, outside of my qualms which are minor anyway. Eddie Guerrero/Dean Malenko & Arn Anderson/Ric Flair match coming up on this episode? Oh yes.

*Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko same show*

Excellent to go from them wrestling into a Hogan/J. Hart promo mid match with no purpose. As for the match itself, as Heenan is saying 'match for wrestling purist enthusiasts'. Don't think I fall under that sub-category. Brilliantly executed series of moves. As an example, just picture yourself watching two professionals ball dance. But it's a bit formulaic, 'I hit a move, you counter the next'. Not much on their ECW stuff & their later work in the Cruisweight/TV division.

*Arn Anderson vs Ric Flair same show*

Did they decide their Fall Brawl match wasn't good enough? Because they come out here all guns ablazin', straight to each others throats with some guile. And that was always a much better way for these two men to go into a match. Thought their chain wrestling at Fall Brawl was rather detrimental. However they go into a 'ah, beaten down' stage all of a sudden, and without work. Arn hitting his signature Spinebuster and is too 'fatigued' to go for the cover? Huh. Pacing of it also seems off now. Chop to the chest, fall to the floor. Elbow to the head, fall to the floor. In for a F4LL, scratch that. . Match over with Pillman interfering. Bit of potential comes to a crashing halt when they blew their load prematurely. But goes to a Anderson/Flair cage next week. Fuark. 

*Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko round 2 7th of October 95*

Ok, another Malenko/Guerrero match in this week of WCW television. Previous dismissing the last match because it was extremely formulaic, from my perspective. Let's see if they swap it up a bit this time.
Does it? Well, they opened with some promise, but they do seem determined to force in some spotty, cruisweight sequences mid-match. You would expect after a heavier hitting intro to the match, they'd ease away from putting together a fast sequence to render the start, useless. But it's a minor blip in the total outwork of their match. They go back into Malenko working over Eddie. Ah, another blip. Bit more detrimental this time, as they go through another series of moves that have hurt their previous workover on their opponent. Their finishing stretch was actually a very good neutraliser to a match which has so far struggled in structuring. They push out all their big moves, done without the Kurt Angle style retardation and paced appriopriately. Pinfall victory for Malenko worked in properly after Malenko's heavy hitting moves to Guerrero's back. It's better than their Nitro match, by a considerable amount. If they go for a rubber match, I'm going to shit on it if it doesn't evolve from some of the problems they had in their first 2 WCW matches.

*Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit Nitro Oct 16*

Their first WCW encounter. This match will be nothing more than a showcase for both men, I'd imagine. Hopefully I enjoy their series more than the prelminary matches over Malenko/Guerrero. Benoit has a bit more substance to his moves than Malenko imo.
Get's started. Not my type of start. Bit spotty to get the crowd invested. But it goes up from here, with a Benoit control segment to establish him more as a heel. It works. Guerrero hasn't had too much to do outside of the two desperation superflips of doom into a DDT. But fuaark. Those suplexes he is delivering. Bischoff building up the match by saying the C in WCW stands for commitment. World Commitment Wrestling. Finish is decently executed, killer german suplex into a bridge pin.

*Ric Flair & Sting (after 4 minutes) vs Arn Anderson & Brian Pillman*

Hot, fun match. First 3 minutes is Flair doing his usual shtick. Stylin', profilin' and cleaning house. Eventually he loses his domination over the heels. Obviously, he was one up against the two. But in comes the Stinger after being impressed by Flair's determination against the opposition. It's not really a 'proper match' per say. Good promotion for Halloween Havoc. Leaves the crowd wanting more. But a fun, entertaining prequel.

*Randy Savage vs Kurusawa Nitro 23rd of October 95*

So Savage in a throwaway match 6 days before his big two matches at Halloween Havoc. Rather weird for them to send him out against the crazy Japanese brawler in Kurasawa (kayfabe yo). Got to give some credit to Kurasawa's kicks. Look fantastic. Well, that and his punches. Loving him just ripping away at Savage's arm. Limb work is always beautiful when it's done well, but in this match, his work just looked like it belonged on the cat walk in some flesh-showing clothes.Definately do away with booty calling this calibre of limb work. It deserves to go out for dinner, a date done the proper way. Now they've got to work in Savage's comeback after a commercial break. He's done great to make Kurasawa look like a monster. Aww, he shrugs it a bit off for climbing the ropes, but fuck it. That 10 seconds can be scratched away just on the beauty the rest of the match gave. Barely over 6 minutes aired so can't give it a rating, but I give it a thumbs up!

*Eddie Guerrero & masked Jerry Lynn vs Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko*

An entertaining match to some end. They went at it long enough for it to be considered a worthwhile match to dig out and watch. As a tag team match, less requirement to focus on the psychology, more emphasis on the hot-tags, beatdown and chemistry between the wrestlers. There is enough of that on show here. Recommend this to anyone a fan of the wrestlers on show, any of 'em. Not much else to say about it though. Tend to not have many words for tag matches unless they are exceptional.​
Bit longer than I intended, doh.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Some of my fave WWE sets...
> 
> Really love the Bret set. Watched that last night. Some amazing tag matches (Bees, Dogs, Rockers and Nastys)...Perfect matches, Diesel, Austin, Owen at WM 10, Owen tribute show match with Pegasus, etc.....fantastic set, maybe even flawless
> 
> ...


At the time when Tombstone came out that Angle match hadn't happened yet. Still a great set though.

I really enjoyed both of Takers, Edge's and the Nitro sets. Rise and fall of ECW is still my all time favorite documentary.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:$


Dark Church said:


> At the time when Tombstone came out that Angle match hadn't happened yet. Still a great set though.
> 
> I really enjoyed both of Takers, Edge's and the Nitro sets. Rise and fall of ECW is still my all time favorite documentary.


My favorite is Foleys, then Punks, then ECW. It has some sweet matches on it too (Jerry Lynn vs RVD is that :mark: match).

I love Paul E. he's the greatest.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Quick questions have Bryan and Seth only had 2 one-on-one matches in the E so far? I've got Raw 06.10.2013 & Raw 08.26.2013. Need to know for my Bryan/Seth project. Currently on the 5th :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> One of these days I'm going to buy the 36 disc Eddie Guerrero comp Cal has in his possession. That & the 37 disc Terry Funk set won't be watched until 2016 because I'm terrible for committing to projects mind you.


I've had the Funk set since like 2011 and have watched 6 discs or something. It's like, 'well, I own the stuff now....OK, I'll watch it later' *five years pass*


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Cleavage said:


> Quick questions have Bryan and Seth only had 2 one-on-one matches in the E so far? I've got Raw 06.10.2013 & Raw 08.26.2013. Need to know for my Bryan/Seth project. Currently on the 5th :mark:


Yup, only two so far.

Anyone happen to have a list handy of matches worth watching from Main Event?

It's the only WWE show I haven't kept up with(God knows why). I think the last one I watched was a Big Show Gauntlet, which I thought was super fun. So yeah, a lot to catch up on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wilberforce said:


> Yup, only two so far.
> 
> Anyone happen to have a list handy of matches worth watching from Main Event?
> 
> It's the only WWE show I haven't kept up with(God knows why). I think the last one I watched was a Big Show Gauntlet, which I thought was super fun. So yeah, a lot to catch up on.


Ziggler/Cesaro, Ziggler/Sheamus and Barrett/Sheamus all from this year were all awesome.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

GAME matches watched today:

Backlash 2006 vs Cena/Edge ***3/4
Unforgiven 2008 vs Jeff Hardy vs MVP vs The Brian Kendrick vs Shelton Benjamin ***1/2
Cyber Sunday 2008 vs Jeff Hardy ***1/2
Armageddon vs Edge/Hardy ***1/4

So Trips/Hardy had some pretty good singles matches on PPV between Armageddon 2007, No Mercy 2008, Cyber Sunday 2008, plus the triple threat at Armageddon 2008. Hardy finally winning the title at Armageddon is a cool moment, though it would have made sense if he had pinned Trips for as long as he chased him, even though Edge had the title at that point. 

Championship Scramble was fun. Hardy/Shelton/Kendrick were all pretty entertaining in this, though I think Shelton should have gotten a pinfall. Hard to believe that the guy that made his debut as a singing telegram was champion for a few minutes.

Also, Trips/Kozlov at Survivor Series is a pile of shit, and the crowd treated it like such. Edge did save it, however.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

FUCCKING TIRED AS SHIT , have had classes since 100 and just finished my last 10 mins ago, soaked from rain and almost got punched by a big dude \ for laughing at him, He looked exactly like Brodus CLay :lol that yea

Anyways NEED something good to watch, let them fly


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey Paramore fan, I just found what may be your favorite match:


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

ATF said:


> Ziggler/Cesaro, Ziggler/Sheamus and Barrett/Sheamus all from this year were all awesome.


I thought Kofi/Cesaro from May of this year was great too. Cesaro has been one of those guys as of late that constantly impresses me. 

Speaking of Cesaro, I've yet to comment on this, but that Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls match was awesome. Dat finish... :mark:

*EDIT:* Any other matches from NXT this year that I should check out?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Regal/Ohno

Cesaro/Zayn II


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Regal/Ohno
> 
> Cesaro/Zayn II


Regal vs Ohno is so damn good. That was just a kick ass fight, not even necessarily a wrestling match. I loved everything about it, from Regal breaking Ohnos fingers, to the trash talking, the chops/punches, the intensity, and most importantly, the story. I so desperately wish Hero would hit the gym every once in a while and improve his look, he could make waves and create works of art up on the main roster. I'd love to see him go against Cody Rhodes or Sheamus. I'm not saying he needs to juice or anything, but if he cut up like Punk it would go a long way to improving his look.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Whats everyone thoughts on Punk/Cena NOC ?

I go back and forth everytime I watch, gonna watch in a few, I remember only liking mitb and feb 13 from their series though


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

****1/4 Cena kicking out of all those finishers (including the Rock Bottom) but pins Punk after a German from the top is meh.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Punk vs. Cena NOC: ****1/2 

Just a great match. Though the ending was whatever they both gave a hell of a performance. To me, it's their 2nd best encounter with the MITB match being 1st and their Raw 2013 match being 3rd. Just insane chemistry.

Anyway, I'm watching random WWE Superstars matches. The 1st one being Tyson Kidd vs. DH Smith on 12/2/10. ***1/2 Enjoyable match that told a nice story about their fallout as a tag team. Anyone have recommendations that I could watch?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love the Night of Champions match. A lot of people make the claim that all their matches are the same, but something felt different about that match. Punk had the second best heel control segment of 2012 full of interesting stuff and a cool story of how he is able to telegraph every single motion that Cena can do. Cena's selling was pretty spotty (one of the few flaws in this match), but I loved the part where he got rid of the theatrics in the 5KS due to Punk's constant reversal of that move. I also thought the ending was pretty cool and it really fooled everyone.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey Guys, I've been reading this thread for a few weeks, and I thought I'd join in. I have about half of my review done for Backlash 2009. I will hopefully have the last two matches up by tomorrow. 

BTW- please comment and criticize!

Backlash 2009 review

Emanating live from the Dunkin Donuts center in Providence, RI, your hosts are Jim Ross, the king, and Michael Cole. 
Match # 1: Jack Swagger(c) vs Christian- Singles match for the ECW championship. 

Great opener, these two had a great feud in 2009 as Christian had just come back to the WWE after a lengthy stint in TNA. This match really got the crowd going for the rest of the night. Both men put on a great match. Tommy Dreamer would get into the mix at the next PPV(Extreme Rules) and a triple threat would take place between Swagger, Christian, and Dreamer that was decent IIRC. Overall, this was great booking to kick the PPV off with this match. **** 
Match # 2: Chris Jericho vs Ricky “the dragon” Steamboat- singles match. 

Wow. Ricky Steamboat is still extremely athletic for his age. However, this match suffers from a very generic, slow beginning. The climax of this match was pretty exciting, but I would have liked to see Steamboat go over in his last match ever. However, this did give Jericho some good momentum when he entered into an awesome program with Mysterio followed by a nice run as the tag champions with big show as Jerishow. This was also much better than the 3 on 1 handicap match at WM 25, as Steamboat is definitely the most athletic out of himself, Piper, and Snuka. This match gets elevated one * because of Steamboats age and ½ * because anything with heel Jericho is awesome. ** ¾ * 

Match # 3: CM Punk vs Kane- Singles match. 

I guess the story behind this is that Kane feels he should have won Money In the bank so he wants to fight Punk, kind of similar to the current Damien Sandow and Cody Rhodes storyline. This match REALLY dragged on. I’m a pretty big fan of both Punk and Kane but they did not work well together here and seemed to have very little chemistry. It was slow and even the ending was boring, very disappointing after the first 2 matches in the PPV delivered. Punk would cash in MITB at the next PPV which would be the start of two WHC and solid programs with both Jeff Hardy and the Undertaker, while Kane would do nothing of note for a while IIRC. ¾ * 

Match # 4: Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy- Brother vs Brother I quit match. 

I haven’t seen their match at WM 25 in a few years, but from the bits they showed in the promo it looked alright. This match was pretty dull for the majority of the match, I think Matt Hardy played a good heel and Jeff as usual played a great face. Most of this match was just you normal wrestling match, with the I quit stipulation. However, the ending was pretty great, even if it was just for its silliness. Matt hardy was strapped to a table by cords while Jeff climbed a ladder. Matt pleaded with him desperately, and quitted, but Jeff Swanton’s the table anyways. Entertaining ending but Jeff would have far better opponents in Edge and CM punk over the course of the summer. ** ½ *


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cleavage said:


> Quick questions have Bryan and Seth only had 2 one-on-one matches in the E so far? I've got Raw 06.10.2013 & Raw 08.26.2013. Need to know for my Bryan/Seth project. Currently on the 5th :mark:


Yes sir, only two in the 'E. Do you need the dates of their indy matches too?



Wilberforce said:


> Anyone happen to have a list handy of matches worth watching from Main Event?


From this year, Sheamus/Ziggler, Del Rio/Ziggler, Sheamus/Cesaro, and Cesaro/Kofi.



redskins25 said:


> Anyways NEED something good to watch, let them fly


Brian Pillman vs. Alex Wright - GAB 1995



redskins25 said:


> Whats everyone thoughts on Punk/Cena NOC ?
> 
> I go back and forth everytime I watch, gonna watch in a few, I remember only liking mitb and feb 13 from their series though


I'm on my own little island with this one, watched it a few months ago:

*WWE Championship
*CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena (_Night of Champions 2012_)

Wow, so the entire build up vid to this is comprised of one in-ring promo between the two, and it's pretty damn intense. If you guys weren't aware, Punk is a Paul Heyman Guy. LOVE Punk refusing to give up the belt and playing mind games with Cena, plus those Yankees colored trunks in Boston. Not gonna lie, this had a big time feel but the match itself hugely disappointed me. There were definitely some things to love here, i.e. both guys having to pull out different moves because their signature stuff wasn't getting the job done. Surprisingly Cena's suicide dive looked great while Punk's moonsault was butt ugly.  Unfortunate they botched that, but it happens. Also Punk's constant scouting of the 5 knuckle shuffle was great until Cena finally hits it with no hesitation. I felt a lot of the match just kind of meandered along until the next big move occurred though. Punk's short control segment wasn't much of anything but taunts. How can I describe the last several minutes? Overkill, honestly. The first GTS nearfall was great but then it started to get out of hand. So many attempts of the same big moves & I think they landed two AA & GTS's each for kickouts. I just wasn't quite feeling the excitement since I already knew the outcome I guess. All in all it's not a bad match but it's certainly not their greatest, probably their worst PPV encounter tbh.

**** 1/4*

------------------------

For Backlash '09 I thought Punk/Kane was wayyyy better than that shitty I Quit match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> For Backlash '09 I thought Punk/Kane was wayyyy better than that shitty I Quit match.


Yeah I think I rated the I quit match a * too high. I personally thought the ending was funny, but the match itself was pretty terrible. I thought both we're terrible TBH.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

God I loved Punk/Cena at NoC. One of my fave matches of 2012. I'd probably go :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer 1/2. Only liking their MitB match more. Their Raw match in Feb was probably better than the NoC match but Ive only seen it once (live) and loved it but it needs another watch or two. Those two are like PB and Jelly in the ring I don't GAF what anyone says. 




Dark Church said:


> At the time when Tombstone came out that Angle match hadn't happened yet. Still a great set though.
> 
> I really enjoyed both of Takers, Edge's and the Nitro sets. Rise and fall of ECW is still my all time favorite documentary.


I coulda swore Tombstone came out in like mid/late 2006. I own it but Im too lazy to find it or google it lol. Makes sense NWO wouldnt be on it though. It's an amazing set though. You could almost pump out another unreleased Taker set. 

Fave doc is Punk's for sure. Just a flawless doc. You get something out of it even if you don't like rasslin.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Whats everyone thoughts on Punk/Cena NOC ?
> 
> I go back and forth everytime I watch, gonna watch in a few, I remember only liking mitb and feb 13 from their series though


The best match in "Night of Champions" history if I do say so myself.

Punk Bottom made it for me. The fact that Cena goes out of his way to do things in these Punk matches like suicide dives and shit just to top their previous performances is nothing short of amazing and a major reason as to why I adore them so match. I can't wait for another year or two down the road when we maybe get another Punk-Cena feud but with proper gimmicks such as HIAC, Ironman, hell even no holds barred. Cena steps his game up to another level when going up against CM Punk more so than any other opponent, it's kind of insane actually. I mean, he has a history of excellent bouts with Michaels, HHH, Jericho, etc, but it's like he's obsessed with making Punk-Cena the defining rivalry of this era, which it is hands down.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Punk in NY Yankee pinstripe boots and Heyman ripping Boston before the match was just brilliant.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> The best match in "Night of Champions" history if I do say so myself.
> 
> Punk Bottom made it for me. The fact that Cena goes out of his way to do things in these Punk matches like suicide dives and shit just to top their previous performances is nothing short of amazing and a major reason as to why I adore them so match. I can't wait for another year or two down the road when we maybe get another Punk-Cena feud but with proper gimmicks such as HIAC, Ironman, hell even no holds barred. Cena steps his game up to another level when going up against CM Punk more so than any other opponent, it's kind of insane actually. I mean, he has a history of excellent bouts with Michaels, HHH, Jericho, etc, but it's like he's obsessed with making Punk-Cena the defining rivalry of this era, which it is hands down.


Well said,

I enjoyed it alot this time around. Its the quintessential wwe "main event" match IMO, has everything in it, slows down and it picks up well at points. Punk attire is badass indeed. Only gripes (just for nitpicking) are time and the obvious false finishers but it didn't bother me as much as expected going into it 

Need to watch mitb some time, its one of the 6 ***** for me




Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yes sir, only two in the 'E. Do you need the dates of their indy matches too?
> 
> 
> From this year, Sheamus/Ziggler, Del Rio/Ziggler, Sheamus/Cesaro, and Cesaro/Kofi.
> ...


HAha actually after I made that post, I did go watch some Flyin Brin Pillman, boy did it not disappoint


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd go ★★★½ for Punk/Cena at NOC. From NOC history, I'd put Cena/HHH and Henry/Orton both above it. More of the same ol' shit, only with even more of a finisher overkill and they decide to end the match with an awful looking German from the top rope. MITB and Raw this year are the only Punk/Cena matches I care for.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched Punk/Cena NOC for the first time ever. Not their best, but out of the 4 I'd put it at # 3. **** from me. However, for Punk/Cena matches its MITB 2011>raw February 2013> NOC 2012 > summerslam 2011. Though even the worst one is still good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Punk/Trips at NOC 2011 could have been so good, and was pretty decent up until the clusterfuck ending started. 

Punk/Cena probably is the best NOC match (I think there have been 5 events), and I'll bet Bryan/Orton this year is pretty good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling said:


> *Punk/Trips at NOC 2011* could have been so good, and was pretty decent up until the clusterfuck ending started.
> 
> Punk/Cena probably is the best NOC match (I think there have been 5 events), and I'll bet Bryan/Orton this year is pretty good.


Still love that match. So much fun and overbooked craziness. **** all day.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I want so bad to like that match since it was two of my favorites going at it, but can't find the strength to give it more than the ***1/4. That whole angle was so f'ed up, and it ended up leading to Punk/Trips teaming up against Miz/Truth, who I still can't believe main evented a show with Rock/Cena. At least that night included Punk kicking off his 434 day reign.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I got some work to do tommorow, I have 4 matches Down already that I've decided I must watch

1: the rest of backlash 2009
2: trips vs CM Punk 
3: Kurt angle vs the undertaker(no way out)


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash 2007
Cade/Murdoch vs Hardyz - ***1/2
Melina vs Mickie - **3/4
MVP vs Benoit - ***
Umaga/Vince/Shane vs Lashley - ** (Mainly since I enjoy Umaga's offense)
Batista vs Taker - ****
Edge vs Orton vs Cena vs HBK - ****1/2

Backlash 2008
MVP vs Matt Hardy - ***1/2
Kane vs Chavo Guerrero - **3/4
Big Show vs Khali - *
HBK vs Batista - ***3/4
Divas 54 person tag - DUD
Taker vs Edge - ****
JBL vs Orton vs Triple H vs Cena - ***3/4

Both very enjoyable shows, imo. Still will always love the fatal four way from '07. Loads of fun and those guys have really good chemistry with each other.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People talking best NOC matches and not at least mentioning Miz/Bryan?

BLASPHEMY.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Best NOC match, imo, is probably either Trips/Cena ('08) or Punk/Cena ('12). Punk/Hardy ('09) up there too.

I completely forget NOC '10. Need to give that a watch.

I also enjoy the shit out of the NOC '11 card. Enjoyed Ted/Cody more than probably everyone here, liked the 4-way, liked Henry/Orton and enjoyed Punk/Trips. Remember nothing of Cena/Del Rio.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

How was the Cesaro/Ryback series? I think I have only seen their match in RAW Old School and I can't remember anything about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hey Paramore fan, I just found what may be your favorite match:


Sweet lady gaga - YES.



EmbassyForever said:


> How was the Cesaro/Ryback series? I think I have only seen their match in RAW Old School and I can't remember anything about it.


They're better than one would think. Ryback does his freakish power stuff and Cesaro was Cesaro. I liked the bulk of the matches.

---------------

Backlash 2007 is a good show, if not overrated. Never think of it as some majestic show like others. Backlash '08 is pretty bad. At least I liked three matches from it: Kane vs Chavo, Show vs Khali, & Taker vs Edge.

Rewatch Survivor Series 2011 tonight. It's not _AS_ bad as I remembered. Main event still is a pile of shit and makes me laugh at The Rock's existence. Pitiful match with pitiful build coupled with pitiful excuses _(with all due respect, but seriously)_ for heel foils. WWE Championship is more mediocre than I remembered. Punk & Del Rio should have killed it. Instead it was pretty lifeless and had a boring Del Rio sequence for a bulk of the bout. Punk winning is the only true highlight. World Championship is good. Thankfully. Hated it on the first watch, yet here I realize it's good; just slower than usual. Don't even mind the finish either. It tied in with the story. Opener is still my favorite match and pick for best on the night. Held up. Divas was bleh, however it has a booming finish & is probably the most tolerable Lumberjill match in history. Can't hide the fact that on a show with six matches, this didn't help the curve. What else is left? Oh yeah, the elimination match. Which was solid. Better than 2012's & weaker than 2010's. Set the heel's domination well throughout & Sin Cara makes himself the biggest joke in the company. Again. So it wasn't hard to watch.

Not gonna look at this show like it is a steaming pile of something fierce anymore. Only with the main event. Managed to dig two matches and have no problems with another. Splits the difference. That's usually where I can say the bare minimum should be with PPVs. Beats one match shows. _(even if the one match is a classic. Which it oddly is every time...)_


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Sweet lady gaga - YES.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's funny, I was about to watch this PPV on Amazon instant the other day, it's the only one from 2011 I still haven't seen. Then my eye caught the "Faces of Fear" DVD (HH 96', SC 96', SB7, etc) that my friend burned me. I ended up spending the next hour watching that. In hindsight, that might have been a great decision.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Survivor Series '11 is far, far more about the spectacle than the wrestling tbh.

And with exception of the ECW Title match, imo Backlash '07 is majestic 8*D Dat double ME that I worship :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Survivor Series '11 is far, far more about the spectacle than the wrestling tbh.
> 
> And with exception of the ECW Title match, imo Backlash '07 is majestic 8*D Dat double ME that I worship :mark:


BL07 has that very good 4 way with Cena, Edge, Orton, and Michaels, right? That's a pretty good match, maybe a top 5 4 way from what I remember (Final 4 in 1997 will always be my fave 4 way ever). It also has the very good LMS with Batista and Taker, where Batista spears Taker off the stage and legit injures him. And the solid if not Great match with Benoit and MVP. Not too shabby, I haven't seen any of the other matches from it though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, that same 4-Way.

Does anyone share my ****1/2 feeling on Orton/Shawn @ Survivor Series '07?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Finished up Halloween Havoc '95. Did skip most of the undercard. No chance am I watching that outside of Beefcake/Zodiac getting squashed by Savage.

*Johnny B Badd vs Diamond Dallas Halloween Havoc 95*

An impressive match, favour it over Badd's match with Pillman a month before. It's shorter, hotter and a better structure in the underdog babyface up against the heel with all odds in his corner. They could of finished it up a bit earlier, but the unusual extension helped factor in Badd's triumphant fightback over DDP & Max Muscle. Interested to see what they do with Badd as the television champion. He's got a great arsenal & appears to be very good coming from deep to win. But WCW's midcard heel roster is rather lacksture at this stage. A rating? Sure, since it's a PPV. ***1/2 Not better than Pillman/B Badd but I would rather watch this. 

_*Ric Flair & Sting vs Arn Anderson vs Brian Pillman*_

Match starts up with Flair not in the ring, in the same essence that Sting wasn't at Flair's side on Nitro. Starts up with the usual babyface beating up the two heels while the crowd chants out for Flair. Eventually he does get in, but by then, the two heels begin their domination over Sting. While it was a simple beatdown, Pillman's character display & evolution throughout the match was thoroughly impressive. Guy is just coming to life. Shame we never get to see the final result of his character. Even in '97, I am sure he had more to give. As for Arn, his methodical Anderson inspired beatdown was fantastic too. Match kept to a simple formula of a hot tag, but this one played out perfectly. Eventually Sting is ready to make him comeback. Tags in Flair, who struts around, bounces onto the ropes but wait...


Spoiler: Match Result



HE HITS STING. RIC FLAIR HAS ATTACKED STING. They proceed to beat down Sting, they make their signature 4 finger salute of the Horsemen.


Good match-up. ***1/4. 

*Lex Luger vs Randy Savage*

I enjoyed their first match on Nitro so I have some anticipation for this. Hoping for a bit more intensity from the bell. Which they do thankfully. Luger displaying more signs of aggression and anger after his slightly more lax display on Nitro. Luger building up a bit of the boos. Surprising. Or is it? Depends on the main event!
But regardless so far, match has been a great battle. Both men just going for the throat, no strikes barred. And that ends quickly after a very, very weird interuption from Jimmy Hart. Shame, potential wasted. Luger tries to cheat a win out of Savage by using his feet on the ropes but Hart already has the referee distracted. Surely a fuck up on his part? Savage throws Luger into the direction of the referee and capitalises with the collision between Luger/Hart with an elbow from the top rope. Definition of a dusty finish done wrong. Ending was one of the worst I've seen. But the match before was a enjoyable brawl. Doesn't get a rating. Too short.

*Hulk Hogan vs THE GIANT w/ the Taskmaster*

Dark side Hogan has to be one of my guilty pleasure favourite storylines. The entire thing is like a poorly eecuted '60s sci fi movie. But surprisingly I thought the match was decent. Nothing more. Hogan does just get up and no sell. Part of his shtick, sure. But is it a detriment in wrestling matches. There isn't too much else. The Giant's offence is strong enough to elicit the response out of the crowd and Hogan's comebacks are worked decently. Story told was good and they did their best to keep with it. Ending was a surprise with who aligned with the Dungeon of Doom. And Schiavone's pronouncation of the YET-TAY is a classic. Good enough for a WCW main event, especially what is due to follow it in the next few years. Maybe **1/2. But more favourable to a **. IDK.​
Another PPV inspired by a good B. Badd performance and a solid Anderson/Flair interaction. Not much else at all to it. It's a solid PPV I'd say, considering it is wrestling in 1995. Next up is World War 3. Read ahead & seen some stuff that pimps the Badd/DDP match at that PPV as better than this. Excited. Couple of Nitro match reviews to come in a few days before WW3.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Yes, that same 4-Way.
> 
> Does anyone share my ****1/2 feeling on Orton/Shawn @ Survivor Series '07?


Is that the one where HBK can't use the Super Kick?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes :hbk


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well, I don't know about a star rating, I would definitely say it told a very cool story and it was interesting to see HBK pretty much out wrestling Orton at every turn. I haven't seen it in a while, I remember liking it well enough when I saw it, I don't know if I'm as high on it as you are tbh. Might need a rewatch, it's on the HBK "My Journey" set I have...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I know a lot of folks use XWT in here and I'm wondering if anybody else is having trouble with them lately. Keep in mind that I am a complete idiot at this stuff but I cannot seem to download a single thing off there any more. It's just XWT because downloads are starting from every other place I try. Is this just me and if it is would anybody know how to go about fixing that? I've left stuff open for days thinking that maybe I just need some seeders or whatever but still nothing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for curiosity, do y'all look forward for Axel & Heyman/Punk at NOC?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I know a lot of folks use XWT in here and I'm wondering if anybody else is having trouble with them lately. Keep in mind that I am a complete idiot at this stuff but I cannot seem to download a single thing off there any more. It's just XWT because downloads are starting from every other place I try. Is this just me and if it is would anybody know how to go about fixing that? I've left stuff open for days thinking that maybe I just need some seeders or whatever but still nothing.


Only trouble I've had recently was with a massive pack which contained every ROH show from 2007 on it. It had minimal seeders on it & the progress was only at 67% so I wasn't too surprise. All WWE downloads like NXT & Superstars continue to zip on through. As do more current Indie/Puro stuff too. Can't say I'm having any problems with the site since it came back up.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thoughts on Rey Mysterio Vs Jushin Liger @ Starrcade 1996?

About to watch it on the Rey Set, THE DREAM MATCH.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> Survivor Series '11 is far, far more about the spectacle than the wrestling tbh.


Indeed. I remember at the time despite the shit build people were pretty pumped on that night. Especially on here. It was a fun night with a hot ass crowd. Dont know why some folks crap on the main event either. Thought it was fine. Not really all that good of a match sure, but it had a big feel to it. Even if Miz/Truth were laughable opponents who were disposed of by Cena on his own weeks before the match lol.

And despite the time he put in, it still remains Rock's best individual in ring performance since his return by far.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Only trouble I've had recently was with a massive pack which contained every ROH show from 2007 on it. It had minimal seeders on it & the progress was only at 67% so I wasn't too surprise. All WWE downloads like NXT & Superstars continue to zip on through. As do more current Indie/Puro stuff too. Can't say I'm having any problems with the site since it came back up.


Just as I typed that I opened it back up again and boom, DL through in less than a minute. Tried again and it's back to being strange again. Don't know what's going on tbh. Maybe I'll just have to do things one at a time or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Thoughts on Rey Mysterio Vs Jushin Liger @ Starrcade 1996?
> 
> About to watch it on the Rey Set, THE DREAM MATCH.


Great. Liger works as a bully vs Mysterio. I dig it. Some wanted to say it was disappointing, but I don't see it. It wasn't the competitive droolfest like how Ultimo vs Dean was previously in the show. Went a different route. I appreciated them trying something new. Don't expect TOO much Mysterio offense in it. He's nearly stopped at every turn by the legend.



WrestlingforEverII said:


> Indeed. I remember at the time despite the shit build people were pretty pumped on that night. Especially on here. It was a fun night with a hot ass crowd. Dont know why some folks crap on the main event either. Thought it was fine. Not really all that good of a match sure, but it had a big feel to it. Even if Miz/Truth were laughable opponents who were disposed of by Cena on his own weeks before the match lol.
> 
> And despite the time he put in, it still remains Rock's best individual in ring performance since his return by far.


b/c he worked four minutes out of twenty-one? I wouldn't go around bragging about that.



Starbuck said:


> Just as I typed that I opened it back up again and boom, DL through in less than a minute. Tried again and it's back to being strange again. Don't know what's going on tbh. Maybe I'll just have to do things one at a time or something.


Possibly. I only download one link at a time via speed paranoia. My NXT download just finished in about three minutes. Had nothing else going with it. I always feared that would cause a rift. Sticking with that is probably for the best.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> b/c he worked four minutes out of twenty-one? I wouldn't go around bragging about that.


Meh, Its not really to point out as bragging. Its a simple observation. Which is why I said despite the time he put in, it still remains his best individual ring work (post return). Judging him as an individual, Rock (post return) never looked better than he did that night. Which is no surprise seeing as how he actually prepared and trained for that match as well as getting himself into ring shape. Im sure it would be the same even if he did more time.

All of his matches after that were clearly being done on the fly and he was big as shit. Effected his work vastly for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doing two arms drags, la magistral cradle, rock bottom, & people's elbow shouldn't leave someone winded. It's like saying R-Truth as a good performance every night b/c he only works two - four minutes. Rock didn't do anything in the match. Yet that's his best performance since coming back in 2011. The point here is that isn't a positive. Only drives home the fact of how the man can't work anymore. He was never the best in ring guy as it was, but nowadays, oof.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thought the story being told in Rey Vs Liger was boss and that Liger's aerial dropkick on Mysterio at one point was one of the most brutal dropkicks I've ever seen performed, great stuff there.

Heading into Spring Stampede against Ultimo Dragon & the Halloween Havoc bout against Dean Malenko is probably what I'd consider to be the tops on the set, just brilliant shit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another sweet Ultimo match. Which raped the bulk of the show until Page vs Savage happened. Seriously, go watch that four way on that show. Or Nash vs Steiner. Or Jarrett(ahhhhhhh) & Mongo vs Public Enemy. You'll be tearing your eyes out. The four way is the worst though b/c of how long it drags. Anyways, still too bad the WW3 match wasn't on it. I know it made another set but you can't argue with the best making the cut. I felt like I added a lot more here than usual. Meh. Had a lot to say. Great match upcoming.

The Malenko match has probably my second favorite finish of all the matches on the set. Gutwrench powerbomb from the top. Oh shit. If it wasn't vs the Super Calo match, it would be number one. Nothing is ever going to trump the double springboard from two rings. sweet lady gaga no friggin way. Btw, I'd probably say the Super Calo match is my personal favorite from Disc One. Shocker.

Also, the six man from When World's Collide is bossy. MADONNA'S BOYFRIEND. :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuckin' Spiccoli and his antics just made that match for me, even though I'm not really the biggest fan of it around at all (It's really god though, for the record). 

Second you on the idea that the Calo finish was AMAZING. Rey may have become a better worker in his WWE years, but in WCW he was just fucking defying gravity on a weekly basis, one of the most impressive aerial moves I've ever seen.

Not a Malenko fan at all really, but his work with Rey is fucking awesome.

ACTUALLY; I wanna hear thoughts on the next matches I'm about to watch for probably the 10th time; Eddie-Rey HH 97 & Eddie-Rey WWIII.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Doing two arms drags, la magistral cradle, rock bottom, & people's elbow shouldn't leave someone winded. It's like saying R-Truth as a good performance every night b/c he only works two - four minutes. Rock didn't do anything in the match. Yet that's his best performance since coming back in 2011. The point here is that isn't a positive. Only drives home the fact of how the man can't work anymore. He was never the best in ring guy as it was, but nowadays, oof.


The way people talk about the guy being winded these days, you actually would think that people believe that doing does move leaves someone winded. 

He did do something and sure thats it, it wasn't much but for what he did he did it well. Served his purpose. Would you say the same if he bombed that little work he put in? Especially coming off a 7 year hiatus and having a whirlwind of people doubting you off the bat. Like I said, im positive that he would have still came off better than his latter matches with more time added in for SS11 because he actually trained, worked and prepared for what he was planned to do that night. Thats my point and why I said its his best Individual performance. Im not even trying to make it out as the greatest thing ever lol. Every time after that he wasn't as sharp or fluid. Its natural to say that taking preparation for a match > working on the fly. Especially in his case. I dont see how anyone can say any of his other matches after that night showed him putting in a better individual performance. Regardless of time.

We all know he wasnt the best dude in the ring, we all know he isnt and will never be as good as he was. Im just saying.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only thing about the match I was lukewarm on was the lackluster finish. That's a trait seen in Lucha more often than you'd think, so it didn't bother me too much. Work in it was so crisp. PPV itself was bad ass. Liked the idea of giving Lucha a mainstream appeal with the American voiceover.

Mysterio was always a brilliant worker for my money. He just grew to become much more well rounded upon joining WWE. Upped his game from an already high level. Instead of being purely the amazing high flyer, he wanted to be an amazing wrestler period. And he became one. Gosh. So many stellar matches. It's quite astounding. Super Calo's dive to the outside on Mysterio in that match was insane too. Those guys didn't care & put on a heck of a show.

Yeah, I can agree. I like Dean despite his vacuous trait which can be a negative. Like anyone he's had his good & his bad. Clearly there are better lads out there too, but he's cool. Loved how the audience just blew up for the guy in '97 & '98. Something about him clicked with the WCW audience.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Speaking of XWT failing, I made it to roughly 90% on the Best of Mid-South/UWF comp when they just deleted it from their tracker for no damn reason.

edit: slight cry for help is intentional


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Eddie vs Mysterio WWIII match is GREAT. Not sure why it isn't talked about nearly as much as their others. The ladder match is talked about more for example. That doesn't even come close. It's oddly their forgotten match. I really, really dig it. Don't have to talk about Havoc. We all know what that holds. Perfection. Plus another mindblowing risky move by Mysterio. God dammit is it stellar. Tope headscissors to the concrete floor. And it was performed without a flaw; seamless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

On The Rock; I'd much rather him NOT be there for Wrestlemania XXX as we wouldn't have as many broken builds to matches and main event clogging, but if he wasn't being used in THE main event of the show (as in, going on last... Whatever match he would be featured in would be used to sell the show more than likely though) I could really care less. The only match I can see Rock being in that has the potential to be good is Brock-Rock and that's ONLY if they plan it weeks in advance and if Rock agrees to bump like a savage for Lesnar's offense and stay on the defensive for most of the match. STILL though, that would mean that we wouldn't get Taker-Brock which has all time great potential so I don't know how I'd feel about that.

On Eddie/Rey; I meant the WWIII & HH matches in comparison to the WWE stuff; where would you put it? Would you consider Havoc to be better than 6/23/2005, Great American Bash, & Judgment Day? How about WWIII?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I just looked up that Rey dvd's match listings and saw that match and was about to ask if its any good, Ive never heard anybody talk about it, is it a month after HH 97 ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Havoc takes a backseat to the June Smackdown match. Which is by far their best match ever. The storytelling & work by Eddie is off the charts. Havoc will probably by my second pick. I do love Judgment Day a whole lot too. So consider that top three billing. WW3 would probably be next. Yeah, thinking about it, def is. GAB was really good, but I know I liked the competitive energy more.

June Smackdown
Halloween Havoc '97
Judgment Day '05
World War 3 '97
GAB '05
WrestleMania 21
SummerSlam '05

Their WCW TV matches are great sprints too. As for the WWE TV matches _(WWE Championship & Jan '05)_ I need a rewatch. I know those would probably be above GAB. Maybe higher. For the Championship match. January was great iirc, but not one of my favorites. All of this withstanding that WW3 & Judgment Day are a lot closer than one may think. Heel Eddie - can't beat it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Couldn't* care less, KOK, not 'could', *COULDN'T* :HHH2

Anyways, Eddie/Rey mention and still no love for the Cage match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> *Couldn't* care less, KOK, not 'could', *COULDN'T* :HHH2
> 
> Anyways, Eddie/Rey mention and still no love for the Cage match


I thought it was an American thing to say "Could care less", we brits always say "Couldn't care less; as far as i know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good lord mind skipped on the cage. Good reason for that; haven't seen it since the air date. Add that to the other two TV matches I have to watch. And all three made the Viva La Raza set iirc. So YES @ that lucky bit.

Nah, zep. The improper grammar isn't an American thing. It's "couldn't" all across the board. Plus, KOK is Canadian. So maybe that's how they say it...:hmm:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Havoc takes a backseat to the June Smackdown match. Which is by far their best match ever. The storytelling & work by Eddie is off the charts. Havoc will probably by my second pick. I do love Judgment Day a whole lot too. So consider that top three billing. WW3 would probably be next. Yeah, thinking about it, def is. GAB was really good, but I know I liked the competitive energy more.
> 
> June Smackdown
> Halloween Havoc '97
> ...


I agree with that list mostly, the HH97 match was just so mind blowing at the time, it will always have a place in my heart. I remember when I saw it live my jaw dropped to the floor when Rey did his back flip DDT, then my jaw dropped 20 miles below underground when Rey did his front flip head scissors to the outside of the ring. That move is on the very short list of most amazing things I've ever seen done in a wrestling match, and one of the only ones that doesn't involve Michael Francis Foley. 

The Smackdown match had better character performances and better pacing and storytelling than HH97', and that gives it a slight edge for me as the best match they ever had together (that I've seen, I'm sure I haven't seen all their work). I just ordered the biggest little man set on amazon yesterday and it should be arriving today. To say I'm pumped is an understatement:mark:

Right now I'm on a Vader binge, what are some of your guys face Vader matches?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I know a lot of folks use XWT in here and I'm wondering if anybody else is having trouble with them lately. Keep in mind that I am a complete idiot at this stuff but I cannot seem to download a single thing off there any more. It's just XWT because downloads are starting from every other place I try. Is this just me and if it is would anybody know how to go about fixing that? I've left stuff open for days thinking that maybe I just need some seeders or whatever but still nothing.


They got attacked a couple weeks ago and ever since then the site has been completely up and down. One day it'll work fine, the next the site won't even open. Guess they still haven't fully recovered. There's not _nearly _as many things uploaded on a daily basis either.



ATF said:


> Just for curiosity, do y'all look forward for Axel & Heyman/Punk at NOC?


I am, mainly because of what they just did on RAW last week. I can't see it coming anywhere close to that on an emotional level though, unless they randomly make it No DQ. I'm sure Punk will win and get his revenge on Heyman.


ATF said:


> *Couldn't* care less, KOK, not 'could', *COULDN'T* :HHH2
> 
> Anyways, Eddie/Rey mention and still no love for the Cage match


That's because it's not _that _good.  Gave it *** 1/4 on the last watch, just nothing really standout compared to like 5 of their other matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know what you're talking ABOOT ATF?

Cage match is the bomb but it's not touching a whole bunch of Nitro matches & the aforementioned WCW & WWE PPV bouts minus Mania & Summerslam EH?

Just for disrespecting my culture, you have to vote for me in the History Draft which you can find in my sig 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I agree with that list mostly, the HH97 match was just so mind blowing at the time, it will always have a place in my heart. I remember when I saw it live my jaw dropped to the floor when Rey did his back flip DDT, then my jaw dropped 20 miles below underground when Rey did his front flip head scissors to the outside of the ring. That move is on the very short list of most amazing things I've ever seen done in a wrestling match, and one of the only ones that doesn't involve Michael Francis Foley.
> 
> The Smackdown match had better character performances and better pacing and storytelling than HH97', and that gives it a slight edge for me as the best match they ever had together (that I've seen, I'm sure I haven't seen all their work). I just ordered the biggest little man set on amazon yesterday and it should be arriving today. To say I'm pumped is an understatement:mark:
> 
> Right now I'm on a Vader binge, what are some of your guys face Vader matches?


The set is godly in terms of quality. Only match that made it and I'm not particularly a fan of is the tag vs the Bashams from NWO '05. Other than that, let 'em rip. Big shout out to the matches vs Matt Hardy & Tajiri from '03.

Vader vs Sting is probably the best combo he had in North America. Possibly Foley. He did have magic with Flair too - Starrcade '93 after all. Now I'm off touting everything he did. Heck, he had good matches with Hogan too at a time when nothing on the shows were usually any good. _(strap match would have been fine if the finish wasn't bogus)_ I'm gonna list his match vs Shamrock as one of my favorites that some may not jump to right off the bat. Tremendous combo & way to really capture the new essence of WWF in '97. I'll plug the Undertaker matches after I rewatch them soon. Both Rumble & Canadian Stampede. But obviously they're really good and ones I dig. I just don't quite remember them as much as I would like atm. 

Holy CRAP @ that WWE sale. I wanted to buy some Indie shows but I almost think I should take advantage of the sale b/c of greed. Quantity that holds quality > quality all alone. Yeah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Right now I'm on a Vader binge, what are some of your guys face Vader matches?


Vader :mark:

One of my all time favorites, this custom set is fan-fucking-tastic if you can get it - http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/vadercomp.html, made by the Goodhelmet god himself, also check out alot of Vader's work in Japan, with Hansen, Bam Bam etc.  , plus a couple of matches from his '99 Japan run.


----------



## METTY (Jan 8, 2010)

*The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/new-trailer-wwe-triple-h-kingdom-dvd-undertaker/49667/


The preview confirms a number of different superstars who were interviewed for the release including THE UNDERTAKER! This marks the first time that The Undertaker has been interviewed on a WWE DVD release since the early 2000s.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive give eddie/rey ww3 a watch if I can find it

Vader Matches ? 

flair starcade 93
hbk ss 96
foley series ( love it)

I'd argue starcade 93 is better than the steamboat series except maybe chi-town for Naitch. Vader best match IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But the Clash of the Champions 2/3 Falls match is better than the Chi-Town Rumble match. So where does that rank up now? :side:

:hayley1


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*

I may actually invest money into a WWE DVD for once. Way interesting stuff. I'm excited.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Ive give eddie/rey ww3 a watch if I can find it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I HAVE RETURNED TO THE THREAD. AND STUFF.

Keep seeing my name/disc site being thrown around lol. Kinda stopped trading because fuck, every time I sent shit out it would just get LOST by the shitty bastarding post office. But my local post office recently got taken over by new people and it seems somewhat reliable again so I might get back into it. Just need to catch up on some orders that I kept sending and kept getting lost. Poor Moops has been waiting a VERY long time for discs, WOOLCOCK for some time too... and Sterling... I'm surprised he hasn't murdered me yet.

Eddie/Rey stuff - HH 97 is their #1 match for me still. Made the #1 match overall on the Top 100 WCW Matches List too, beating out some INCREDIBLE matches like Flair/Steamboat (Clash being the top one for me, and the list overall), Rude/Steamboat Iron Man, Vader/Sting, Vader/Flair etc etc. SD June 05 match is definitely #2, and my personal adoration for their GAB match places that in 3rd place. Wanna know how to be a fucking HEEL? How to portray a character during a match? How to add oodles of fucking storytelling into a match? Then fucking watch and study Eddie in that one. A masterpiece. Wrestling is referred to as an art form by a lot of wrestlers, and I'll be fucking damned if the GAB 05 Eddie/Rey match isn't one of the absolute best representations of that. Very, very, VERY few matches even come close to it for that.

VADER~! His match with Shamrock is fucking awesome, if your into that thing. And by that thing I mean 2 guys just blasting each other in the fucking face. Check out his match with Steamboat from Saturday Night 16/10/1993. Made the top 5 on my WCW list. Incredible stuff. INCREDIBLE. Wrestlings version of Rocky.

Fuck that WWE sale. I miss Silvervision . Haven't bought a new release since they went out of business, freemantle are a fucking rip off.

Watching SD May 6th 2011 atm. Bryan Vs Sheamus just had a GREAT match given the limited time they had. Crazy to think how good their match would be a year later around that time at ER. Christian/Orton WHC match is the main event for the show, looking forward to seeing it again even if the outcome is bullshit . Makes up for the Raw show earlier in the week being the WORST Raw of all time (Rock's birthday celebration).


----------



## BigEvil2012 (Oct 25, 2012)

*Re: The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*

He didn't speak on The Streak dvd but he does on HHH's dvd lol...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> But the Clash of the Champions 2/3 Falls match is better than the Chi-Town Rumble match. So where does that rank up now? :side:
> 
> :hayley1


haha I have the flair/steamboat series as following

chi-town
cotc
ww 89

I'd love to see some of their 80s and late 70s stuff as Flair said their better. How much better can it be ? :mark:. I love chi-town to death and hold it in high regard, I don't think the other to are bad (that blasphemy) but I can name 4-5 flair matches I'd have over it.



zep81 said:


>


Good stuff sir, need to start spreading some reps


By the way just a quick plug, everybody head down to the games & trivia section and vote in the history draft ! We got the biggest triple threat since hbk, hhh ,and that other guy. Its me, KOK (The Beast Inc.) and another poster, head down and VOTE !


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought the Vader vs Steamboat match happened on Worldwide & not Saturday Night. b/c the one I got on DVD was from that program.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*



BigEvil2012 said:


> He didn't speak on The Streak dvd but he does on HHH's dvd lol...


Gotta love dat logic.

:vince5

But I'll still probably be buying this one, haha.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair's matches with Windham at Battle of the Belts II in 1986 and World Wide Wrestling in 1987 are both better than any of the Steamboat matches, and I fucking LOVE the COTC match. BOTB II is the closest a match ever came to overthrowing the first HIAC as the GOAT match ever for me.

EDIT: Its definitely Saturday Night for Vader/Steamer . Its on the History of the WHC DVD, just checked the listings .


----------



## DevilsFan (Mar 3, 2013)

*Re: The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*

To be honest this is most likely going to be his last Wrestlemania so we will definitely see him out of character a lot more. He never broke character before because he didn't know when he was retiring and I'm pretty sure all signs point to the end at Wrestlemania 30 or at most WM 31.

Him not appearing on the streak DVD is more of a timing thing and there's obviously going to be a streak DVD after he retires to include all his matches.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*

Triple H got everybody from The Rock to an out-of-character Undertaker to praise the fuck out of him.

GOAT :jpl


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WrestleWar was good, but I've never thought much of it. The other two Flair vs Steamboat matches are super high up. 2/3 falls is probably the best match I've seen in North America. Windham matches are damn close. Forgot I own the '87 match. Hell yes. That should be watched.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

What did everyone think of the HHH/Flair feud?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yesss ! I adore flair/windam WoW 87, that may be flair best match IMO. Watch it Cody

Edit: It is 4/11/87 right ?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

*Re: The Undertaker breaks character for new Triple H Blu-Ray...*

Out of all the DVDs released for so many people, Taker had to break character for the nth DVD of the boss. :hhh


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Clash > WW > CT is the order I'd have the 89 Flair/Steamboat matches. Then the 2 house show ones after them, Philadelphia > Landover .

Man, my top 5 WCW matches was craaazy:

1.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
2.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993
3.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997
4.	Belfast Bruiser Vs Steven Regal - Uncensored 24/03/1996
5.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993

Wouldn't change a damn thing though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> Yesss ! I adore flair/windam WoW 87, that may be flair best match IMO. Watch it Cody
> 
> Edit: It is 4/11/87 right ?


1/20/87 is the WWW match that I adore so much (less than the 86 match but still). The date you put is for the Crockett Cup match which I felt was a step below the other 2 matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Thought the Vader vs Steamboat match happened on Worldwide & not Saturday Night. b/c the one I got on DVD was from that program.



Vader. Steamboat. Underdog "Rocky-esque" story. How in the name of sweet Jesus have I not seen this match? What is wrong with me? I've never even HEARD of it. Such an epic, epic, failure on my part. I apologize and promise to do better in the future.

I've seen just about all the Vader-Sting and Vader-Cactus matches, seen the Hogan-Vader strap match(that some how results in Ric Flair losing.....um...how is that possible again?). I've seen 1 or 2 matches with Taker. I've seen the HBK Summerslam match a bunch......I definitely need to check out the Shamrock match. You said "if i enjoy watching two wrestlers blast each other in the face....". Hmmmmm, that's a tough one, I dunno......umm HELL YES I like watching wrestlers tee off on each other, that's basically the entire cactus jack-Vader feud in a nutshell, and i never get tired of the fights (not matches, fights) those two had. I love being wowed with sheer over the top brutality, as long as its done right (none of that ultra violence stuff for me tho, as soon as the staple guns come out I change the channel).

I can't wait to get home now and watch Steamer and Vader do battle, along with Shamrock. Then ill probably stay up all night watching the Rey set. Life is good right now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> I HAVE RETURNED TO THE THREAD. AND STUFF.
> 
> Keep seeing my name/disc site being thrown around lol. Kinda stopped trading because fuck, every time I sent shit out it would just get LOST by the shitty bastarding post office. But my local post office recently got taken over by new people and it seems somewhat reliable again so I might get back into it. Just need to catch up on some orders that I kept sending and kept getting lost. Poor Moops has been waiting a VERY long time for discs, WOOLCOCK for some time too... and Sterling... I'm surprised he hasn't murdered me yet.


Bout fucking time Cal  Ill be getting in touch as soon as you are up and running please.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My review for Vader Vs Steamboat is a first page result on google when you search "Vader Vs Steamboat" :mark:.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone remember/have ratings or thoughts on any of these TV matches from last year? They're blu ray extras on Summerslam '12 and they may be the deciding factor on buying it:

*Monday Night RAW 13th August, 2012*
CM Punk vs. Big Show
Piper’s Pit with Guest Chris Jericho
The Miz vs. Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler
Big Show & Daniel Bryan vs. CM Punk & John Cena
Triple H & Brock Lesnar Contract Signing
Shawn Michaels shows his support for Triple H


*SmackDown 17th August, 2012*
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Think my Windham/Flair would go BoTB3 > WWW > JC Cup. I also think I prefer the Windham/Flair impromptu match on the 01/13/87 episode of WWW over JC Cup 87.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Just saw the Triple H trailer. My god, do they ever try to paint him like Babe Ruth, Mother Teresa, and Ric Flair all rolled into one. 

That music at the end. :lmao :lmao :lmao

I can't take this shit seriously. Haitch literally had every relevant star available put him over.

:batista3 Michael fucking Jordan.

I am looking forward to the set though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Duke Silver said:


> Just saw the Triple H trailer. My god, do they ever try to paint him like Babe Ruth, Mother Teresa, and Ric Flair all rolled into one.
> 
> That music at the end. :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> ...



I'm seriously looking forward to it too, if only to see the undertaker parts. But man, you hit the nail on the head with that comment :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Does anyone remember/have ratings or thoughts on any of these TV matches from last year? They're blu ray extras on Summerslam '12 and they may be the deciding factor on buying it:
> 
> *Monday Night RAW 13th August, 2012*
> CM Punk vs. Big Show
> ...


Punk vs. Big Show is a decent match, but nothing to write home about. Miz vs. Jericho vs. Ziggler I thought was pretty damn good, but I haven't watched since its original airing. The tag match is fun, and Orton vs. Bryan is meh when considering the caliber of the two workers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well let's put it this way; The Triple H DVD will be bought, watched in full, and reviewed on the very first day by me no matter WHAT the fuck is happening on that particular day. 

Crazy party on campus? NOPE. TRIPLE H DVD.

Sex? NOPE. TRIPLE H DVD.

Smoking the world's best weed while AJ Lee blows me?

NOPE.

:HHH2 :HHH2 :HHH2

A++


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I HAVE RETURNED TO THE THREAD. AND STUFF.
> 
> Keep seeing my name/disc site being thrown around lol. Kinda stopped trading because fuck, every time I sent shit out it would just get LOST by the shitty bastarding post office. But my local post office recently got taken over by new people and it seems somewhat reliable again so I might get back into it. Just need to catch up on some orders that I kept sending and kept getting lost. Poor Moops has been waiting a VERY long time for discs, WOOLCOCK for some time too... and Sterling... I'm surprised he hasn't murdered me yet.


No worries Cal. I was going to get back in touch but realised you'd been occupied with a lot of circumstances the past couple of months so was fine waiting for things to settle down a bit. You & Seabs are still my go to guys 


Other thoughts:

6/23 > HH '97 > GAB '05 > JD '05 > 3/18/04 > Cage Match > Summerslam for the Rey/Eddie feud in terms of matches 10 minutes+ .

Vader's best match is either the Superbrawl III Strap Match vs Sting or the 11/16/94 Dustin Rhodes match from Clash 29. Pretty much the quintessential babyfaces to bump around for Vader and have exhilarating comebacks, whilst Vader just brutalises them at every opportunity and sells smartly to tease the upset and get the crowd envoked in the finish.

I had Steamboat/Flair COTC as their best match in the WCW poll, just ahead of The Landover House Show match from 3/18. Pretty sure Chi Town & WrestleWar were next to one another with the Philadelphia House Show just behind. Chi Town has a good chance of being held in higher thoughts on a rewatch given the flow and style they work which is a significant departure from the COTC & WrestleWar matches.

Flair/Windham BOTB II '86 is their best match, just ahead of the Worldwide '87 match. However Flair/Wahoo BOTB '85 is absolutely incredible and very much worthy of being placed alongside both matches, even if I would have it probably below both matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Well let's put it this way; The Triple H DVD will be bought, watched in full, and reviewed on the very first day by me no matter WHAT the fuck is happening on that particular day.
> 
> Crazy party on campus? NOPE. TRIPLE H DVD.
> 
> ...


Layla or summer rae ? I think HHH dvd could wait a couple weeks :lol

flair/windamn impromptu is glorious


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Well let's put it this way; The Triple H DVD will be bought, watched in full, and reviewed on the very first day by me no matter WHAT the fuck is happening on that particular day.
> 
> Crazy party on campus? NOPE. TRIPLE H DVD.
> 
> ...


I'll gladly take the opportunity then :brock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My post about Windham/Flair BOTB II got me thinking; when was the last time anyone watched a match that replaced their (at the time) GOAT match? HIAC between HBK and Undertaker has pretty much always been my GOAT match, but never overtaken in all these years. Is this the same for everyone else? I think I'd actually like to see a match and consider it better than the HIAC, because fuck, why WOULDN'T I want to see a match even better than the current best? Would be like, Super GOAT! 

I'll download the HHH doc when it's released. Along with me simply not buying new releases thanks to Freemantle being rip off cunts, I have little interest in a HHH set anyway outside of the documentary. Just gonna hate having to listen to guys suck him off even though his career is only actually about 1/10th as good as the WWE would like you to believe.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Flair/Windham BOTB II '86 is their best match, just ahead of the Worldwide '87 match. However Flair/Wahoo BOTB '85 is absolutely incredible and very much worthy of being placed alongside both matches, even if I would have it probably below both matches.


Been due to watch Wahoo/Flair in Mid-South for ages. How does it stand up for you against BotB?



redskins25 said:


> flair/windamn impromptu is glorious


I agree. Definately one of the best sub 10 minute encounters I've seen in wrestling.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Been due to watch Wahoo/Flair in Mid-South for ages. How does it stand up for you against BotB?


Off memory it's below their BOTB encounter, but that says more about the quality of that match compared to doing a disservice against the Mid South encounter. It's a lot more violent and physical and is definitely a match that rubbishes the claim Flair wrestled the same match night in night out. Not sure if it's better than Flair/Reed (8/10/85), but it might be a top 3 Flair match in Mid South (Dibiase 11/6 is his best for the entire angle as opposed to just the match).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Does anyone remember/have ratings or thoughts on any of these TV matches from last year? They're blu ray extras on Summerslam '12 and they may be the deciding factor on buying it:
> 
> *Monday Night RAW 13th August, 2012*
> CM Punk vs. Big Show
> ...


Punker vs Show is fantastic. I remember being high on the Triple Threat & even higher on the tag. Don't think I cared for the Smackdown match, but truthfully, I forgot that match happened. Probably b/c Danielson vs Orton has never clicked.

And Cal, if the Saturday Night match is on the World Championship set, then I'm almost certain the one I own is a completely different match altogether. Yep, found it online. This is the one I own:


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Callamus said:


> My post about Windham/Flair BOTB II got me thinking; when was the last time anyone watched a match that replaced their (at the time) GOAT match? HIAC between HBK and Undertaker has pretty much always been my GOAT match, but never overtaken in all these years. Is this the same for everyone else? I think I'd actually like to see a match and consider it better than the HIAC, because fuck, why WOULDN'T I want to see a match even better than the current best? Would be like, Super GOAT!


Can't say I have personally, if only because I don't think there is one singular match that I adore above every other. There's matches like Ishikawa/Ikeda, Kawada/Taue vs Misawa/Kobashi, Hansen/Kawada, Hansen/Kobashi, Ishikawa/Greco, Slaughter/Sheik, Lawler/Dundee (12/30/85), Chicana/Perro Aguayo, Casas/Dandy, Damiancito/Cicloncito, Hansen/Colon '87, Lawler/Funk '81, New Japan/UWF, Flair/Windham, Fantastics/Midnight Express and many others that will likely forever be ingrained in my mind as amongst the best matches I've ever seen, however I've never really settled on one match as being conclusively better.

I suppose I do always look forward to the day I watch a match that I could reasonably see being included in that special crop of matches someday however.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

To me there will never be a match better than 6/9/95. I can't imagine a match better than that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well I usually consider Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 or Liger vs Muta 10/20/96 my favorite match, so nothing has really trumped it as of yet. I'll be damned if I said Finlay vs Regal from Uncensored isn't up there equally. Or Taker vs Mankind HIAC _(that's at least my most viewed wrestling match ever. Kind of by a landslide.)_ There still could always be the chance...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thanks for the help, fellas. Decided to make a big blu ray order from Best Buy's website (free shipping too). Got these three:

Summerslam '12
Payback '13
Money in the Bank '13

Did everyone see the blu ray extras for Payback!? Shit man, Bryan vs. Rollins AND Shield vs. Orton & Hell No. Count me in.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Talking about favourite matches ever? Mine's Benoit/Regal NM '06. My 1st real classic.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Haven't seen a match that has gone beyond Blanchard/Garvin 05/03/86 for me. T'was near flawless.



WOOLCOCK said:


> Off memory it's below their BOTB encounter, but that says more about the quality of that match compared to doing a disservice against the Mid South encounter. It's a lot more violent and physical and is definitely a match that rubbishes the claim Flair wrestled the same match night in night out. Not sure if it's better than Flair/Reed (8/10/85), but it might be a top 3 Flair match in Mid South (Dibiase 11/6 is his best for the entire angle as opposed to just the match).


Got some free time tonight so think I'll settle into a Flair Mid-South marathon. May keep it to the matches vs Taylor & von Erich in the 2nd quarter of '85 though. If I still have too much freetime, going to mix in Rock n Roll Express tags vs Dr Death/DiBiase & Gordy/Roberts.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I hear contrasting thoughts about the Flair/Taylor series so in that respect it'll be interesting what thoughts you take away from the matches.

Can't believe I forgot Blanchard/Magnum, Blanchard/Garvin & the 4/20/91 AJ trios match from that crop of matches I listed above. Rookie error on my part.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Well I usually consider Midnight Express vs Southern Boys from GAB '90 or Liger vs Muta 10/20/96 my favorite match, so nothing has really trumped it as of yet. I'll be damned if I said Finlay vs Regal from Uncensored isn't up there equally. Or Taker vs Mankind HIAC _(that's at least my most viewed wrestling match ever. Kind of by a landslide.)_ There still could always be the chance...



That's funny, I don't think I've watched any match even close to the amount of times I've seen Taker vs Foley HiaC. There is just something about that awesome spectacle, it leaves you feeling like you've been on a roller coaster. Too much Foley greatness.

My favorite matches (I can't choose just one) are, in no particular order:

Foley vs HBK Mindgames
Benoit vs Great Sasuke Super J Cup 94'
Eddie vs Rey HH97'
Tully Blanchard vs Magnum T.A. I Quit Match
Macho Man vs Warrior WM7
Lawler vs Funk No DQ 1981

and just to piss ATF off, Benoit vs Angle at Royal Rumble 2003


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The match I've watched more than any other? :hmm:

Probably the 9 man tag from PWG BOLA 2008, which is possibly the most fun I've ever had watching a match, ever. In terms of WWE, it's definitely Eddie vs. Lesnar NW0 2004. The match is an absolute masterpiece and the fact that it isn't either man's best match is a testament to how great both men are, seeing as 99.99999% of the wrestling world will never have a match nearly as good as that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> The match I've watched more than any other? :hmm:
> 
> Probably the 9 man tag from PWG BOLA 2008, which is possibly the most fun I've ever had watching a match, ever. In terms of WWE, it's definitely Eddie vs. Lesnar NW0 2004. The match is an absolute masterpiece and the fact that it isn't either man's best match is a testament to how great both men are, seeing as 99.99999% of the wrestling world will never have a match nearly as good as that.


Ohhhhhh, Brock vs Eddie that's definitely one I've seen between 15-30 times, I love every single thing about it. You're right too, Brock's best matches are his cell match with Taker, vs Cena, and vs Punk. Eddie's best are vs Rey on Smackdown, vs Rey HH97', vs Benoit and a few others. Thats a true testament to greatness right there.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Like an utter scoundrel I forgot Eddie/JBL, bloody 'eck. Quite arguably the quintessential embodiment of emotion and drama permeating through every action in the ring. JBL is brilliant as the sleazy and vile bully and Eddie's plight and ordeal is as captivating as any beating I can recall witnessing. He bleeds like an extra in a Tarantino film and by the end there isn't one person in the building just begging to see him somehow pull off the improbable.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I hear contrasting thoughts about the Flair/Taylor series so in that respect it'll be interesting what thoughts you take away from the matches.
> 
> Can't believe I forgot Blanchard/Magnum, Blanchard/Garvin & the 4/20/91 AJ trios match from that crop of matches I listed above. Rookie error on my part.


Surprised there are contrasts in the matches they have. Is it that a few people don't like the series, or they prefer one match, hate another? Just finished 4-28-85, will hold sharing opinions until I've watched a few others .

Adore Blanchard/Magnum but I don't think I could hold it up as my 'GOAT/BOAT/FOAT/GBFOAT/whatever the kids are calling it these days' match. Still gets the maximum, regardless.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Like an utter scoundrel I forgot Eddie/JBL, bloody 'eck. Quite arguably the quintessential embodiment of emotion and drama permeating through every action in the ring. JBL is brilliant as the sleazy and vile bully and Eddie's plight and ordeal is as captivating as any beating I can recall witnessing. He bleeds like an extra in a Tarantino film and by the end there isn't one person in the building just begging to see him somehow pull off the improbable.


If Eddie had ended up winning that match....I don't know man... Too epic....


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I will never tire of Undertaker vs Mankind HIAC. All the impact that match had on me when I saw it on PPV remains to this day.

and Eddie vs JBL Judgment Day. Yep. That's right on up there. Do believe that's my brother's all time favorite match so it's been played in our households numerous times. It's better off that way. :mark: @ the Tarantino reference for the gore seen in the latter portion of the match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What is everybody's opinion on whether Taboo Tuesday was better in 2004 or in 2005?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As far as purely favourite matches go, Undertaker Vs Kane SD 08 holds up as one of my all time favourites :mark:. Yet another match I love that is mostly about telling a story over everything else.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Surprised there are contrasts in the matches they have. Is it that a few people don't like the series, or they prefer one match, hate another? Just finished 4-28-85, will hold sharing opinions until I've watched a few others .
> 
> Adore Blanchard/Magnum but I don't think I could hold it up as my 'GOAT/BOAT/FOAT/GBFOAT/whatever the kids are calling it these days' match. Still gets the maximum, regardless.


Off memory I think it's a mixture of people not thinking much of Taylor and thinking compared to Flair's greatest highs during that era the matches just can't replicate his best successes. Saying that I'm sure I've seen a couple of matches earn strong praise. 5/3/85 & 4/28/85 made the top 30 for Mid South.



cjack828 said:


> If Eddie had ended up winning that match....I don't know man... Too epic....


In many ways the finish is the perfect ending and just summarises the brilliance that is that match. JBL had no business winning and equally couldn't lose after Eddie's harrowing bladejob in his first main event match and not look like total shit. Eddie getting retribution whilst JBL has the audacity to claim the heroic Eddie took a coward's way out, thus establishing a legitimate cause for the rematch @ GAB was just inspired booking. Plus the crowd begging for that final onslaught by Eddie and the resulting chairshot is magnificent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always had fun with both shows, but probably 2005 by a hair. I liked four matches from '04 but '05 had a more well rounded card. _(divas match was a hair more tolerable & undercard matches while underwhelming weren't a chore to sit through like how the tag team championship match from '04 was.)_

2004: Jericho vs Shelton, Kane vs Snitsky, HHH vs Michaels, & Orton vs Flair
2005: Hardy/Mysterio vs Masters/Snitsky, Flair vs HHH, & Cena vs Michaels vs Angle.

Six of the seven are actually very good imo. In fact, the two steel cage matches, & major championship bouts are great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Favorite Matches ?

hbk/razor wm 10
hbk/flair wm 24
cena/punk mitb

maybe ziggler/adr, Ive watched it 4x in the past couple of days, I'm in the same boat as woolcock , cant really separate favorites from each other, the ones listed I'm watched multiple times and smile with joy every time


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> That's funny, I don't think I've watched any match even close to the amount of times I've seen Taker vs Foley HiaC. There is just something about that awesome spectacle, it leaves you feeling like you've been on a roller coaster. Too much Foley greatness.
> 
> My favorite matches (I can't choose just one) are, in no particular order:
> 
> ...


Because Savage/Warrior is in your list, you were unsucessful 

But I did actually find a way to find some joy out of that: to watch it in a way were "analyzing" is useless - a *highlight video* unk ... and at the sound of Switchfoot ( :mark: ):





Switchfoot: turning chickenshit into chickengold (not salad)9 since '96.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Off memory I think it's a mixture of people not thinking much of Taylor and thinking compared to Flair's greatest highs during that era the matches just can't replicate his best successes. Saying that I'm sure I've seen a couple of matches earn strong praise. 5/3/85 & 4/28/85 made the top 30 for Mid South.


Went to try find that list, mostly to see what they think of the von Erich/Flair series. Couldn't find it anywhere. Got a link?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Finished my Backlash 2009 review, decent PPV

Match # 5: HHH, Batista, and Shane Mcmahon vs Legacy(c) - six man tag match for the WWE championship

Very rarely do you see a tag match for the WWE championship, but the first 15 minutes of this match really was just your standard 6 man tag match you would see on RAW or SD. The ending was exciting, and HHH had an awesome near fall, but it really wasn’t enough to salvage the entire match. This was Shane’s last match, so props to him for going all out at his age. Orton and HHH did their part, but Batista, Rhodes, and Dibiase were probably the worst in this match. Batista had just come back from an injury so he was probably a little rusty, and Dibiase and Rhodes were still young and new to the main event scene. ** ¼ *

Match # 6: John Cena(c) vs Edge- Last man standing match for the world heavyweight championship. 

I have no idea why John Cena won the WHC at WM 25 as I don’t believe that he was on Smackdown at the time. Anyways, these two have had some awesome matches and really work well together in the ring. This match was awesome! The first 25 minutes had some really good back and forth action that put all the other matches that came before it to shame. There was a lot of weapon use, and probably the sickest AA of all time, John Cena AA’d Edge ONTO about 5 fans in the crowd! It was sick. The ending on the ramp was cool too, Big show came out and chokeslammed Cena into a spotlight that caused an “explosion”, it really put the Titontron spot at ER 2012 to shame, and Edge walked out the new WHC. MOTN for sure, and as usual, Cena and Edge showed how much chemistry the 2 have. **** ½ *. 

Overall this was a good but not great PPV, if the LMS match was not as good I probably would say that it was not a good PPV, but the best three matches were Swagger/Christian, Steamboat/ Jericho, and Cena/Edge. I’d give this PPV a 7.5/10, but really, you might just wanna watch the ME by itself and skip the rest, your not gonna lose any sleep over it. This was also the final backlash PPV, as Extreme Rules would replace it as the WrestleMania fallout PPV the next year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Six person tag is quite fabulous. Hate the LMS.

Christian vs Swagger was easily the MOTN.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Six person tag is quite fabulous. Hate the LMS.
> 
> Christian vs Swagger was easily the MOTN.


To each his own, but I probably rated Christian/ Swagger 1/2 * too low. It's on par with the LMS match IMO. Six person tag was just meh to me, even though I'm a big fan of everyone in the match.

Gonna watch and review Taboo Tuesday 2005 later.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BL 09, I'd probably go about ***3/4 for the 6 man, *** for the LMS, ***1/4 for Jericho/Steamboat, and **** for Swagger/Christian. And that match still doesn't even hold a candle to their 24/02/09 ECW match :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Been digging the web, and after going thru Amazon, it made me think: other than 2000, which is the best Judgment Day?

Tbh 2001 and 2006 are my favourites.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> Off memory I think it's a mixture of people not thinking much of Taylor and thinking compared to Flair's greatest highs during that era the matches just can't replicate his best successes. Saying that I'm sure I've seen a couple of matches earn strong praise. 5/3/85 & 4/28/85 made the top 30 for Mid South.
> 
> 
> 
> In many ways the finish is the perfect ending and just summarises the brilliance that is that match. JBL had no business winning and equally couldn't lose after Eddie's harrowing bladejob in his first main event match and not look like total shit. Eddie getting retribution whilst JBL has the audacity to claim the heroic Eddie took a coward's way out, thus establishing a legitimate cause for the rematch @ GAB was just inspired booking. Plus the crowd begging for that final onslaught by Eddie and the resulting chairshot is magnificent.



I could just be a total mark, but I don't think Eddie bladed in that match. I could be seriously wrong, but I think JBL just hit him with the hardest chair shot known to mankind, and his skin just peeled back like a can of tuna. JBL says on Eddie's DVD that it was the chair shot that did it (of course he could just be kayfabe'ing) but Eddie also says the chair shot is what did it in his book. 

That said, I've never seen a chair do THAT to someone's head, so he easily could have bladed. I'm really not sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a blade job. Doesn't ruin any of the dramatic effect it has. Still a surreal sight to see his blood not only all over the ringside area, but cover the entire ring too. Gruesome & unforgettable.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

watched that Eddie/JBL match the other day, MOTY from 2004 right there for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Over HHH/Shawn/Benoit, Orton/Foley, Bork/Eddie or Benoit/Orton? That's some plugging. Imo it barely makes Top 10


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's EASILY the best match of 2004.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Off the top of my head I can't think of a better 04 match than JBL/Eddie JD. RR match and WM Triple Threat are probably the closest to it. Everything else is about 1/2* below it at least (in terms of the other "big" matches that year).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best Judgment Day outside of 2000 is probably 2006 for me.

It's damn hard to pick a MOTY for 2004 since there are so many classics around the 5-4.5 star mark but I'd obviously pick the Mania triple threat.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Desecrated said:


> Went to try find that list, mostly to see what they think of the von Erich/Flair series. Couldn't find it anywhere. Got a link?


http://segundacaida.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/best-of-1980s-project-reviews-and.html



cjack828 said:


> I could just be a total mark, but I don't think Eddie bladed in that match. I could be seriously wrong, but I think JBL just hit him with the hardest chair shot known to mankind, and his skin just peeled back like a can of tuna. JBL says on Eddie's DVD that it was the chair shot that did it (of course he could just be kayfabe'ing) but Eddie also says the chair shot is what did it in his book.
> 
> That said, I've never seen a chair do THAT to someone's head, so he easily could have bladed. I'm really not sure.


Nah, he definitely bladed. Pretty sure by all accounts the chairshot legit knocked him loopy and he carelessly bladed as a result and cut too deep (sure one of those rumours says he nabbed an artery) which lead to the absolutely monstrous cut which spilled down his chest within five seconds.

It's definitely MOTY in my book. Don't think a match comes close that year in touching the drama, tension, character dynamic, heel brilliance of JBL, stoic heroic babyface resilience from Eddie and the entire build from JBL retreating and then capitalising instinctively when Eddie cuts a gusher. The brilliance in booking the finish just caps off a truly tremendous match. One of the best in company history for my money.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched Swagger/Christian from 2/25 ECW :mark:

What a match, definitely beats their backlash match, **** 3/4*. Wish it got over 25 minutes though.a

Another match that was awesome was Christian vs Shelton Benjamin ladder match for the ECW title at TLC 2009, that was awesome IIRC.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Cal is reading this, any chance you could upload the Cena/Punk match that WWE put on (then took off) Youtube the day after it aired, the full one without commercials?

Sure you posted you managed to grab it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Christian vs Shelton Ladder match was probably the only Christian match that was bad in 2009. The rest was insane in regards to the level of quality he was working on. Best being vs Swagger in Feb.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian/Shelton ladder match was AWFUL. I mean just terrible. Botch after botch after botch plus momentum killer with the blood stopping the match for a short time plus awkward looking spots and urgh. Just URGH. 

Just checked and I DO still have that Cena/Punk match in full on my PC . Anywhere in particular you'd like me to post it, or am I ok uploading it to my Dailymotion account?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Would really like to watch more, but I feel drained after the first two. Excellent matches, looking forward to diving into their other matches in the next few days.



Spoiler: Terry vs Ric



*Taylor/Flair 04-28-85*

Beginnings of my re-attempt to watch more and more Mid-South. And so far, what better than a Flair match in '85? Before getting into the action, I have to note that I adore this camera style employed here & the lack of commentary. It gives the match some type of authenticity. Makes it feel alive. A lot of the early going is over simple, basic arm work employed by Taylor 'schooling' the NWA World Champion. A well worked stamp of authority over the Nature Boy that he entered the Mid-South expecting a ride perhaps a little easier than he expected so far. Aiming to frustrate Taylor with his rope breaks, cautious style and just general breaks outside the ring. No one in wrestling, from my perspective, does it better than Flair. He does it perfectly, psychologically wearing down on his opponent. Taylor's repeated attempts to out-do Flair will no doubt come out of whatever he has in the tank, with Flair passively looking to draw that extra bit of energy out of Taylor. Flair has, can and will go the distance if necessary. But can Taylor? That seems to be the case. As the predatory Nature Boy, reigning, defending NWA World Champion begins to control the match after sending Taylor running to the outside. And thus begins the methodical breakdown. 

The match has progressed about 10 minutes since my last little write up. I'd to say the psychology is a bit lukewarm. But the story has kept intact from my perspective. It's transcended from the babyface or heel control segment into a battle of two fatigued wrestlers aiming to finally put the other away. Out of all of Flair's pristine strengths in the ring, I'd say this stretch in his matches are definately my favourite. Just two men going all out, attempting every big hit they can, whether it's a punch, kick, headbutt or a suplex.

And undergoing now is the final stretch. The leg jerker in proceeding of Flair's fabled figure four. Taylor gets that one little bit of desperation to fight out, but he makes a rookies mistake of following the veteran champion into the lions den. And just as the king of the jungle, once Flair has the sight of weakness, in he goes for the kill. Game over.



Ah, thought this match was great. It definately took me out of the early going of von Erich/Flair. It was what I was hoping and expecting to see from these two. Feel each other out, look for a weakness and attempt to finish the match from there. As for a rating, I'd give it ****1/2. Really enjoyed this.​


Spoiler: Kerry vs Ric



*Kerry von Erich/Ric Flair 04-28-85*

Flair wrestling another relatively long match in the same day in a different stadium? Props. If his match with Taylor was the wrestling match, this was the fight. More eyegouging, punches and dirty antics. Throw in Flair getting into the referees face as much as he can and just doing whatever he can to demoralise Kerry. Cut the intensity Kerry brings out early would most likely be Flair's best chance. While the contest is still young, it is more psychologically sharp. Kerry weak on the ribs, the king of the jungle once again comes out of prowl.

Not finding too much to write about this. But that shouldn't detriment it at all. Because by all means, this is fantastic. Rather on the equal footing of their match from December 10th 1985. Rough match with both men going through what makes their work brilliant. Grueling, tough hitting. Both men bringing out their A game arsenals to create a war for the ages.

Yeah, this match is fantastic. And it's a shame I can't think of more to say. Other than that it's a battle for the ages, a war that engulfs both men.



Like I said, I wish I could write more. It deserves a bit of a better write up. Taylor/Flair did still hold a portion of my attention. But I don't think it has hurt my perspective of this match. And I hold this in the same area as I hold Kerry/Flair from 12-10-85. It's shorter and much more of a Southern fight that I prefer. ****1/4​


Spoiler: RocknRoll vs Death/DiBiase



*The Rock n Roll Express vs Dr Death & Ted DiBiase 05-03-85*

I was going to watch more Flair vs Taylor or von Erich, but bloody 'ell at how much they've gripped me in. I felt I would be very difficult to please if I watch another of their matches after those first two. So I think I'll finish off today with this match. Roughly a 9 minute match, so it should be a blast if these teams bring out their best stuff.

Early on, they establish Ricky Morton as the target of a beatdown. Obviously, right? Courtesy of a mistake on the cross body press. Decent beatdown on Morton. Not the best for solid for a 10 minute match, but a very chaotic ending, with GIbson having Dr Death down for at the very least, 20 seconds. DiBiase in for the save and knocks Gibson dead. Fun little match but nothing beyond that.



As for this, didn't come to too much. Short match, done perfectly and with an great ending. But as a tag match, you'd feel you would want more. And I do from these two teams.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

TLC '09 is a relatively shit show all around, tbhayley. Christian vs Shelton being god awful was a drop in the bucket.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Christian/Shelton ladder match was AWFUL. I mean just terrible. Botch after botch after botch plus momentum killer with the blood stopping the match for a short time plus awkward looking spots and urgh. Just URGH.


Oh shit really? It's been a while since I watched it and I thought I remembered it being decent. I do remember the blood stopping the match though, that was dumb.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> TLC '09 is a relatively shit show all around, tbhayley. Christian vs Shelton being god awful was a drop in the bucket.


Still can't believe how dogshit awful Batista/Undertaker was on that show too. Urgh.

EDIT: Some people DID like the ladder match with Christian/Shelton so you aren't alone, but I would suggest a re-watch of it to see if it holds up for you .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

In a series you thought could do no wrong, they had that CHAIRS match. The restart finish too. Good lord. SHITTTTTT


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

eddie/jbl jd 04 is definitely MOTY 04 ****1/2+

orton/foley a close second

Edit: but tlc 09 had sheamus/cena thats pretty good ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That really was a shit PPV, DX vs Jerishow? terrible, Batista vs undertaker? Shockingly bad. Only good part was the shocking win by Sheamus to become WWE champion. 

I'm gonna rewatch that Shelton/Christian match now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just found my thoughts on TLC 2009 that I wrote the day after it happened:



Spoiler: thoughts on TLC 09



Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - Ladder Match for the ECW Title

This is the opener? I don't know if that's just WWE not giving a shit about the ECW Title, or if its WWE having confidence in both guys to kick off the PPV in the best way possible... or if they simply wanted the ladder and TLC matches as far apart as possible .

This was a train wreck for the most part IMO. A lot of the spots were sloppy looking, some of the things they tried to do with the ladder were just pure shit (when Shelton set up the ladder upright against the ropes... WTF was he trying to do?), and don't even get me fucking started on the blood issue. It did get better towards the end at least. starting with...

The Powerbomb to Christian into the ladder after dropping from where the belt was (he was hanging) looked awesome, but barely got a pop from the crowd lol. Christian then countering the second powerbomb from Shelton was nice, showed us that Shelton shouldn't have gone for the same move twice because Christian is a wise veteran.

Finish was ok I guess, I guess after seeing so many ladder matches in the past, even something as cool as being splashed through a ladder isn't that impressive any more lol.

Certainly NOT the MOTN I was expecting. A major disappointment for me, and probably for them too.

Rating: **1/4


John Morrison Vs Drew McIntyre - IC Title

At least this match didn't disappoint . I said it could be a sleeper MOTN, and so far it IS the MOTN lol, even if its only the second match . McIntyre continues to impress me, and Morrison continues to improve and impress me himself as a guy who no longer relies heavily on high flying spots like he was at the start of the year.

A fantastic mid-card back and forth match, and I LOVED the finish, which essentially built off how he took down Finlay a few weeks back; hard shot to the eye, then the DDT. We have a NEW IC champion . 2 out of 2 for my predictions lol, I just hope that Morrison comes back to try and reclaim his title instead of dropping this "feud" before it ever really got going.

Rating: ***1/4


Mickie James Vs Michelle McCool - Women's Title

Huh, rather impressed by the start of this match lol. They actually manages to portray HATE from a simple collar and elbow tie up! Nice back work from McCool, nice false comeback from Mickie who got pissed off when McCool screamed Piggy James in her face lol, and nice reversal of said comeback by McCool, going right back to the back. A smartly wrestled match! Of course, the crowd is pretty much dead for it lol .

A mistake by McCool on the outside nearly costs her the match, as does a failed Layla interference, but in the end a big kick to Mickie takes the challenger out of the match.

Solid women's match, which surprised me lol because I rarely watch any women's wrestling . Shame Mickie didn't win, just because she is the only diva I give a crap about.

Rating: **


Sheamus Vs John Cena - Tables Match for the WWE Title

What...

This match was boring. REALLY boring. I don't think there was anything worth seeing in this match at all. The match was boring, the end was anti-climatic and boring, and the outcome was shocking, but not as shocking as it should have been. So, who thinks we will have another new champion on Raw? 

Well, I said in my predictions that WWE would be retarded to think that giving Sheamus the title would be shocking enough to get some viewers for Raw... and I think WWE can officially be called retards now.

Rating: 1/2*


The Undertaker Vs Batista - Chairs Match for the World Heavyweight Title

Matt Striker: Undertaker has been in HIAC, Elimination Chamber and Inferno Matches, perhaps none more dangerous than a chair match.

:lmao someone is fucking HIGH, because there is no way he could have meant that lol.

Going back to my predictions, I said if they slow the pace down it could be bad for the match as a whole, and dammit, they did exactly what I hoped they wouldn't do. Still, they did have a decent pace for parts of the match, enough to stop the match from sucking altogether, but not enough to put it anywhere NEAR the level of their 07 matches.

Still, I enjoyed the match. Of course it could have been much better, but hey, it could have been worse too. The Undertaker being my all time favourite can make me enjoy pretty much every match involving him, so that always helps lol.

They kept this match as a brawl for the most part, which honestly I don't think they should have done. They should have tried to work it similar to their previous matches, hard hitting with brawling parts, but still very much a "match", if you get what I mean. THEN they could have incorporated the chairs into that, instead of working with the chairs and kind of working a match around them.

Holy shit, Batista won? That came out of NOWHERE lol. Wait, no, he isn't? Why is it restarting? I'm fucking confused now. Ok... a low blow.

Woo, Tombstone . Undertaker wins .

Ok, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the match after that finish . Enjoyable in parts, confusing in others, and all round disappointing even though I wasn't expecting too much out of it.

Rating: **1/2


Kofi Kingston Vs Randy Orton

That dropkick was awesome. If you have seen the match, you know exactly what I am talking about lol. And I'm glad it happened too, because Orton was basically just stood around waiting for Kofi, and if Kofi had been allowed to hit whatever move he was going for, it would have made Orton seem like a moron.

Nice clash of styles here, with Orton wanting to be methodical in his approach, grounding Kofi, while Kingston is always wanting to pick up the pace and jump around. I'd say this is probably up there as one of Orton's best performances of the year (though that isn't saying too much lol), and Kingston did really well too.

The finish, starting with the Trouble in Paradise kick was wonderful. Orton picked up the win, but Kingston looked smart towards the end blocking the Punt kick, and showed that he had the heart to keep going and nearly land the final blow (another TIP kick). I hope this feud continues and we get another match from them.

Rating: ***1/4


DX Vs JeriShow - TLC Match for the Unified Tag Team Titles

Did HHH get the Big Show punch to the face, with a CHAIR in the mix too, only for him to get back up about 10 seconds later and be fine??? Nice selling, Hunter...

DID HHH actually hit a powerbomb? How often has he done THAT lol?

Good match, lots of decent spots, nice double team period with JeriShow beating down HHH and then adding HBK into the mix (the spot with HHH hanging upside down on a ladder and Shawn gets launched into him was great).

The match has a number of slow/dull spots too unfortunately, but given the time it got and the fact all four guys weren't exactly going to go into the match and be taking spots left and right.

The ending was magnificent though. Big Show holding Jericho up high, realising that DX were up again, and getting superkicked in the face was brilliant. Poor Jericho took a huge fall and the table didn't break though, looked liked it really hurt too. DX then using the half ladder to win the match (which I thought JeriShow were going to do until Jericho got on Show's shoulders lol) was cool too. Up there as one of the better finishes to a ladder/tlc match IMO.

Not sure if this is my MOTN or not, because I enjoyed it roughly as much as the IC and Kofi/Orton matches, but I enjoyed all 3 for different reasons lol.

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Just checked and I DO still have that Cena/Punk match in full on my PC . Anywhere in particular you'd like me to post it, or am I ok uploading it to my Dailymotion account?


Sorted.  Any chance you could put it up for DL on Hotfile at all Cal. Or if DM is easier, that'll be fine mate.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Now I want to watch Mcintyre/Morrison

Off topic: Morrison said in an interview lately that is a when an not an If he will return.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Match of the year 2004 is, in order:

1. Eddie vs JBL Judgement Day
2. Foley vs Orton Backlash
3. Eddie vs Lesnar NWO
4. Benoit vs HHH vs HBK at Mania

Just for my money.


And I guess you guys are right, he must have just hacked himself to pieces with that blade job. Oh well, doesn't make a bit of difference in my mind as far as that match goes, still one of the 3 or 4 best matches I've seen in the history of wrestling. And I hadn't even watched it all the way through until about a month ago! Shame one me. I've seen it probably 3-4 times since and it leaves me more amazed each time. The ring looks like The House of Blue Leaves after Beatrix Kiddo just sliced and diced her way through the Crazy 88's......except the Guerrero match probably has even more blood. Just amazing.

On another note, I'm finally home from work and I walked up the steps to my townhouse to find The Biggest Little man waiting all nicely packaged from Amazon on my front porch. I'm not even gonna cherry pick first, I'm just popping the first disc in and hitting "play". Totally content for tonight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DM is easier as I'd have to split the video into 2 parts to upload it to Hotfile lol .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> DM is easier as I'd have to split the video into 2 parts to upload it to Hotfile lol .


That would do nicely Cal, tar. :yum:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Sheamus, just watched him take a Pedigree from Triple H on Raw two weeks before Survivor Series 2006. Never knew his first appearance on WWE TV goes back this far.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal your TLC '09 review is much too kind. And weird that you dislike the best match on the show aka Sheamus vs Cena. _(I do want to check out McIntyre vs Morrison again, b/c I know I like it, but it unsure if it's better than the tables match.)_

The rest are DUDs.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of Sheamus, just watched him take a Pedigree from Triple H on Raw two weeks before Survivor Series 2006. Never knew his first appearance on WWE TV goes back this far.


He was in FCW from 2006-2009, he made his first main roster debut in June of 2009 are you sure it was then? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheamus#Florida_Championship_Wrestling_.282006.E2.80.932009.29


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> He was in FCW from 2006-2009, he made his first main roster debut in June of 2009 are you sure it was then?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheamus#Florida_Championship_Wrestling_.282006.E2.80.932009.29


He's one of the security guys, escorting DX out of the building. It's even written there in his wikipedia, right above the FCW section.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> He's one of the security guys, escorting DX out of the building. It's even written there in his wikipedia, right above the FCW section.


Oh well there goes to show how dumb I am haha.

Just rewatched the Shelton/Christian match, your right Cal that was complete shit, rewatching Morrison/Mcintyre next, then never going near this PPV again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Drew Mac was around on SD in 06 too, but he was a part of the roster for a short time. Sheamus' appearance I think was mainly because it was a UK show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My favorite part about that ladder match was that spot on the outside either right before or right after the blood stoppage. b/c that made so much sense to do on the outside when the object of a ladder match is to use the object to climb INSIDE the ring and grab the championship. But that doesn't matter. Ughhhhh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

To the guy that reviewed BL 09, I remember liking cena/edge LMS and thinking it was the best of their series


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> To the guy that reviewed BL 09, I remember liking cena/edge LMS and thinking it was the best of their series


Thanks, I thought I was alone on this, I think it might of been one of their best But I think I need to rewatch the TLC match in 2006 match that I haven't seen in like 5 years, I have no recollection of whether it was good or not.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow that Mcintyre/Morrison match was pretty good considering it only got like 10 minutes. *** 3/4 *


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Random ratings cause I'm bored:

RVD/Shelton BL '06: ***3/4
Matt/Helms NM '06: ***3/4
ADR/Ziggler Post WM: **3/4 (for 3 minutes it's fucking incredible)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Wow that Mcintyre/Morrison match was pretty good considering it only got like 10 minutes. *** 3/4 *


I allocate 100% of the credit to Morrison.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I allocate 100% of the credit to Morrison.


Can't disagree there, Morrison was an awesome midcard babyface. 

Watching Rock/Austin III, only one in the series I've never seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> I allocate 100% of the credit to Morrison.


I allocate 100% of my fist to your face for being so damn wrong.

*doesn't remember the match in the slightest but since Drew is a far superior worker to Morrison I'm calling bullshit anyway, ya crazy JoMo **** *


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Really like Mysterio vs Malenko GAB96'. It starts out at a pretty good pace but then Malenko ends up grounding Mysterio and working his arm. Rey makes a great comeback im the end but it just isnt to be, Malenko finishes him with a power bomb amd uses the ropes for peverage to get the 1-2-3.

I really REALLY like Mysterio vs Super Calo Fall Brawl. I've never even heard of Super Calo, I don't follow Mexican wrestling much (although I definitely should) and I really really liked what I saw from this dude. His look is a little goofy, but the man can WORK, the match he had with Mysterio was just super creative, I saw a lot of neat moves I don't think I've ever seen before (that Frankensteiner off the apron was :mark. WCW crowds back in 96-97 really suck for the most part when you are watching the Cruiserweight battles, but I've made it my goal in life not to let stupid ass crowds affect how I feel about a match (it just irks the ever loving shit out of me if I think too hard about it how these dumb fucks can be watching an absolutely CLASSIC fucking match and just be sitting there looking like they fucked their sister). The super Calo match ended with a beautiful hurricarana from Rey while bouncing between the two rings that were set up, just a gorgeous looking move. 

I'm loving this Rey set so far, and I just saw a Jushin Liger vs Rey match coming up and it's not one I've seen before :mark: So psyched.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Lesnar/Punk or Bryan/Cena?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar/Punk by quite a bit tbh. Cena/Bryan was a tad disappointing based on what my expectations were lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> Surprised there are contrasts in the matches they have. Is it that a few people don't like the series, or they prefer one match, hate another? Just finished 4-28-85, will hold sharing opinions until I've watched a few others .


Some think it's incredible while other's thought it was drawn out, too long and boring. I thought it was fantastic myself, but it's been so long since I've seen it. I think I gave it a star rating which was a looong time ago.


The Flair/Whoo in Mid-South is really good, but that BOTB match is a classic and if someone called it the best match ever, you know, I kind of wouldn't put up a big argument.


yeah McIntyre > Morrison. I'd add multiple >s if I could be bothered,


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kind of dawned on me how stupid the catalyst for the Michaels vs Batista feud in 2008 was. Batista was butthurt Shawn didn't job on purpose to Flair @ WM. Which was against Flair's demands to begin with. Why would anyone job to a friend when that guy could have retired a week later vs the next guy he wrestled? Who thought this was a feasible plot for a feud? :lmao

On the bright side I actually found a good Hardy vs MVP match on this Smackdown. Rapes their PPV matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Can't disagree there, Morrison was an awesome midcard babyface.


This guy knows what's up.



Callamus said:


> I allocate 100% of my fist to your face for being so damn wrong.
> 
> *doesn't remember the match in the slightest but since Drew is a far superior worker to Morrison I'm calling bullshit anyway, ya crazy JoMo **** *


I remember absolutely ZERO from the match (probably never saw it). My comment still stands.



Yeah1993 said:


> yeah McIntyre > Morrison. I'd add multiple >s if I could be bothered,


:bosh


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Lesnar/Punk or Bryan/Cena?



Lesnar vs Punk, although I'm not in the same camp as Cal because I actually really like Bryan vs Cena too. It could have been better, sure, but Cena was wrestling with a torn triceps and expectations were so sky high for those two it'd be tough to exceed them with one guy not 100%. I really, really, REALLY, like Lesnar vs Punk though. It's beyond me to understand how anyone cannot watch that match and not come away completely in awe of what they accomplished. Everything, from the story being told, to the actual work, to the psychology,to the booking, was flawless in my mind. I have it ahead of Taker vs Punk by the smallest of margins for match of the year in WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dig 'em both. That's my answer. :hb


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'd probably side with Lesnar/Punk as well, having just watched both a couple nights ago. I really like Cena/Bryan, though, so it's not a landslide or anything. Cena/Bryan told a superb story, but I think they could do better. Lesnar/Punk was pretty flawless imo.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Lesnar/Punk for me. I LOVE both matches though. I would like to see Bryan and Cena go at it again once Cena's healthy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

cjack828 said:


> Lesnar vs Punk, although I'm not in the same camp as Cal because I actually really like Bryan vs Cena too.


So do I . I was just expecting so much more from it and it didn't live up to the hype my own insane mind gave it . Lesnar/Punk probably exceeded what I was expecting tbh.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Lesnar/Punk, Both are awesome though, Bryan/Cena might not be as good if you know whats going to happen, but watching it live was awesome.

Edit: Rock/Austin III: **** 1/2*. Their second best, I have WM XV at ****, and WM X-seven at *****.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> So do I . I was just expecting so much more from it and it didn't live up to the hype my own insane mind gave it . Lesnar/Punk probably exceeded what I was expecting tbh.



Once I found out how messed up Cena's arm was, I lowered my expectations considerably, so I the end Cena vs Bryan ended up exceeding expectations for me hahaha 

I hope they get another shot at it, because they have great chemistry. And I'd LOVE to see Lesnar vs Punk II: Hell in a Cell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock/Austin WM:

15 - **1/2
17 - ****1/2
19 - ****1/2 and their best match together period.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

possible to get a link on DM to the Cena/Punk full match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

bigbuxxx said:


> possible to get a link on DM to the Cena/Punk full match?


Once it's uploaded . I've got a shockingly slow upload speed, still an hour left before its done, then DM has to convert it .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

About to watch the bash 2008, have always heard its awesome, card looks stacked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked up the card for GAB 09... absolutely nothing looks worth watching on paper to me lol .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Actually after 2 watches of both, I prefer cena/bryan tbh, lesnar/punk is still great


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't expect much from Jericho vs Michaels and you'll have fun. Punk vs Batista & the Parking Lot Brawl are awesome.

-----------

on a different note Underatker vs Kane 4/4/08 is still an absolute blast. They didn't go out there and throw bombs like usual. Decided to tell a different story. Simply b/c there was no heat between the two here. Loved the touches added at every turn. Great match even with the non-finish.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yea I like that taker/kane match as well


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> on a different note Underatker vs Kane 4/4/08 is still an absolute blast. They didn't go out there and throw bombs like usual. Decided to tell a different story. Simply b/c there was no heat between the two here. Loved the touches added at every turn. Great match even with the non-finish.


:mark: everyone should watch and love this match. I just adore how it works in context to Undertaker and Edge's feud and Kane and Chavo's.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Just looked up the card for GAB 09... absolutely nothing looks worth watching on paper to me lol .


its 2008, Michaels/Jericho, Batista/Punk, JBL/Cena, and HHH/Edge. 

Looks good to me 

And holy shit, Mick Foley's on commentary.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> :mark: everyone should watch and love this match. I just adore how it works in context to Undertaker and Edge's feud and Kane and Chavo's.


I will soon, as I haven't seen that match....

Right NOW I'm enjoying the shit out of the Jushin Liger vs Rey Mysterio match at Starrcade 96'. Holy hell this is so awesome, anyone else love this glorious encounter?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I meant 08 and I stand by my comments . HBK/Jericho I thought was pretty crappy, HHH/Edge was dull as fuck, don't recall JBL/Cena at all and I never liked Batista/Punk either.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I meant 08 and I stand by my comments . HBK/Jericho I thought was pretty crappy, HHH/Edge was dull as fuck, don't recall JBL/Cena at all and I never liked Batista/Punk either.


I was excited though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like to be a giant buzzkill . Buzz? Buzzsaw? TAJIRI THE JAPANESE BUZZSAW. Go watch his matches instead!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I definetely must forget it this time, but was there a great Mysterio/Malenko match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> I definetely must forget it this time, but was there a great Mysterio/Malenko match?


Great? No. Malenko usually fucked their matches up. Good? Yeah, a couple, I seem to recall a TV match (probably a Nitro) being their best encounter, but certainly nothing to go out of your way to see imo. That being said a lot of people do like their matches and rate them highly so you might like them a lot more than me .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I like to be a giant buzzkill . Buzz? Buzzsaw? TAJIRI THE JAPANESE BUZZSAW. Go watch his matches instead!


I totally will when i'm done with this PPV, any suggestions?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I meant 08 and I stand by my comments . *HBK/Jericho I thought was pretty crappy*, HHH/Edge was dull as fuck, don't recall JBL/Cena at all and I never liked Batista/Punk either.


<3 _(although Punk actually gave Batista a good match)_

Hardy vs Shelton was quality from GAB.

-------------

And yep, I put over Liger vs Mysterio a few pages ago. Stellar match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Great? No. Malenko usually fucked their matches up. Good? Yeah, a couple, I seem to recall a TV match (probably a Nitro) being their best encounter, but certainly nothing to go out of your way to see imo. That being said a lot of people do like their matches and rate them highly so you might like them a lot more than me .


I always loved Malenko and I remmeber Rey being a beast in WCW


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Speaking of Malenko, I can't be the only one that absolutely loves his match with Scotty 2 Hotty from Backlash 00, can I?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> I always loved Malenko and I remmeber Rey being a beast in WCW


I'm a Malenko fan and I adore Mysterio, but together they just never worked for me. Malenko would spend most of their matches working the arm then Mysterio's big comeback would be all about him running around and jumping about (aka his usual offence) which rendered the arm work utterly pointless as it got Malenko absolutely nowhere .

As for TAJIRI matches, anything against Rey is good (SD match on his first 3 disc set is stellar), short matches against Regal and Rhyno on PPV in 01 are awesome (No Mercy and Survivor Series I think?), tags with Eddie in 03, and a bunch of other stuff I'm forgetting. Can't really go wrong with a Tajiri match though, even short ones. Always a ton of fun usually.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JBL/Cena parking lot brawl is awesome. Definitely worth watching from GAB 08. Jericho/HBK is decent and I haven't seen anything else.



> I'm a Malenko fan and I adore Mysterio, but together they just never worked for me. Malenko would spend most of their matches working the arm then Mysterio's big comeback would be all about him running around and jumping about (aka his usual offence) which rendered the arm work utterly pointless as it got Malenko absolutely nowhere .


Maybe that's because Rey doesn't run with his arm(s)?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I always felt that Tajiri was underrated in the WWE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Maybe that's because Rey doesn't run with his arm(s)?


Exactly, which is my point . Rey's offence revolved around his ability to use his legs, and Malenko's finisher focused on the legs of his opponents... SO WHY SPEND 90% OF THE MATCH WORKING THE ARMS OF REY MYSTERIO?!?! 

Malenko/Scotty is awesome FluxCapacitor :agree:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't know anyone who doesn't love the Malenko vs Taylor match from Backlash.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> I don't know anyone who doesn't love the Malenko vs Taylor match from Backlash.


Would have been better if GMS was at ringside and his pants fell down. Could have been *****!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Exactly, which is my point . Rey's offence revolved around his ability to use his legs, and Malenko's finisher focused on the legs of his opponents... SO WHY SPEND 90% OF THE MATCH WORKING THE ARMS OF REY MYSTERIO?!?!


Unless he has a big move targeting the arm, I see what you mean. It makes sense if Benoit or Del Rio are working on it to set up their finisher but not in the situation of arm work for the hell of it. As far as I know, none of Malenko's signatures have anything with the arm to do. Still doesn't mean I can't enjoy those matches should I ever bother watching them.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> <3 _(although Punk actually gave Batista a good match)_
> 
> Hardy vs Shelton was quality from GAB.
> 
> ...


Oh nice, I saw you pimped that Super Calo match (I had no clue who you were even talking about at the time lmao) I didn't see anything about Liger...that man is on another level, I've seen maybe 30-40 of his matches now (just recently started watching New Japan stuff, I'm totally clueless for the most part still) and all of them have delivered high quality entertainment(especially anytime he got in the ring with Ohtani, Ultimo Dragon, and Benoit :mark.

Calo match was definitely as good as you said it was, very very creative I saw a lot of things that were new to me, but I'm haven't seen a ton of stuff from Mexico so that could be why.

I'm going to go on the record and say the only Michaels vs Jericho match I really REALLY liked was WM19, all the others rate as either above average (No Mercy, come at me bro ) or just plain average (GAB, Unforgiven). Still haven't seen their match from Raw in July though...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That No mercy ladder match was awesome, I loved it. This PPV has sucked through the first match, but I expected that because hornswoggle was in it


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> I allocate 100% of the credit to Morrison.


And there was me thinking after surviving the revelation of your HHH fandom nothing could threaten our friendship. What is this monstrosity I am reading before me?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao SHOCK VALUE


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright, this PPV sucks, you were right again Cal, I'm bailing. 

Need a PPV to watch, One night stand 2008 any good? I've seen Undertaker vs Edge but that's it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> Alright, this PPV sucks, you were right again Cal, I'm bailing.
> 
> Need a PPV to watch, One night stand 2008 any good? I've seen Undertaker vs Edge but that's it


Extreme Rules 2012, Sheamus vs Bryan: The Match they Should Have Had at Wrestlemania. Also Cena vs Lesnar is quite good. Other matches are average to solid.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> Extreme Rules 2012, Sheamus vs Bryan: The Match they Should Have Had at Wrestlemania. Also Cena vs Lesnar is quite good. Other matches are average to solid.


I've seen but I'm gonna give it another watch because it was awesome. 

Thanks!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

NOOOOOOOOOOO ! hbk/Jericho GAB 08 is pretty good


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I like it too redskins


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna watch it on its own soon. The rest of the card besides Cena/JBL looked like shit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Alright, this PPV sucks, you were right again Cal, I'm bailing.
> 
> Need a PPV to watch, One night stand 2008 any good? I've seen Undertaker vs Edge but that's it


I was there so I'm a bit biased, but the stretcher match, Umaga/Hardy, Singapore Cane and TLC were all fun. HHH/Orton would've turned out great had it not been cut short.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I was there so I'm a bit biased, but the stretcher match, Umaga/Hardy, Singapore Cane and TLC were all fun. HHH/Orton would've turned out great had it not been cut short.


I'll watch it after ER 2012. Thanks! Must of been awesome to be there though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Speaking of Orton/HHH at One Night Stand, just watched this awesome promo between them the week before the PPV.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Extreme rules 2012 off to a hot start with Randy orton vs Kane

I remember LOVING this match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That PPV is GOAT-worthy


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really enjoy ONS '08. Umaga/Hardy is really fun, the Singapore cane match is ridiculously fun, the woman's match is actually pretty solid, I really like Batista/HBK (don't think it's too popular here though), Trips/Orton wasn't great but had some potential. And I enjoy the TLC. I know it has it's problems but I enjoy it.

Also, Morrison OWNS.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This PPV had 2 shit matches after the awesome opener. Brodus Clay/Ziggler and Big show/ Rhodes? puke


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I didn't mind Ziggler/Brodus. Ziggler bumps like a champ for him. And the ending and post match stuff for Cody/Show is fun.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Brye said:


> I didn't mind Ziggler/Brodus. Ziggler bumps like a champ for him. And the ending and post match stuff for Cody/Show is fun.


It was just SO disappointing after Orton/Kane, and its a waste of Zigglers time.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Extreme Rules 2012 review

Live from the Allstate Arena in Rosemont(Chicago) Illinois. 

Match # 1: Randy Orton vs Kane- falls count anywhere street fight

I liked there WrestleMania match unlike others who thought it was uninteresting. I thought this was an awesome choice to open the PPV as it was an extreme match unlike the opener for this year’s ER PPV. This match spends so little time in the ring, within minutes of the bell ringing there in the crowd, which is awesome. They eventually make their way to the ramp and fight there for a little bit. Then they fight backstage and actually have a decent fight there. Zack Ryder would get involved as he had just been involved in that god awful Cena/Kane feud. They eventually make their way back to the ring where Orton would pick up the win. A good “hardcore” match to open up the show, it got decent time and had some cool spots such as the RKO onto the chair for Orton to pick up the win, this would be the conclusion of this feud and it was a solid 2 PPV feud IMO. ****

Match # 2: Brodus Clay vs Dolph Ziggler- singles match

Ughhh way to kill the mood of a hot PPV and a hot crowd, waste of Ziggler and I can’t believe Clay went over, makes my brain hurt. * only for Zigglers selling. 

Match # 3: Big Show(c) vs Cody Rhodes- Tables match for the IC title. 

This whole thing where big show held the IC title was dumb, Cody Rhodes had a good reign but Big Show ended it at WrestleMania. Regular back and forth action for a few minutes, when we found out Big Show was dumb enough to step on a table and lose, A Dumb match and less than 5 minutes long which makes this a snoozer. *

Match # 4: Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus(c) - 2/3 falls match for the WHC championship. 

After the DUD at WM they give us a surefire long match, which saw Daniel Bryan attempt to reclaim his WHC against the champ Sheamus, Really good match IMO. Sheamus gets the ropes but DB continues the onslaught past the 5 count and Chioda calls for the bell at 14:29 to grant Sheamus the first fall via DQ. They fight for a minute or two but Sheamus passes out about 2:00 after the first fall. Regular fight yet exciting for the next 10 minutes when Sheamus reclaims the title by winning the third fall. I liked this match, but it wasn’t legendary by any means. ****

Match # 5: Ryback jobber match

I was hoping for Cole to say “vintage Ryback but besides that it was a Squashfest: DUD

Match # 6: CM Punk(c) vs Chris Jericho- Chicago street fight for the WWE championship. 

Obviously the crowd is hot for Punk, but Jericho get too many boos. This match is pretty similar to their WM match, except that theirs a Chicago crowd and its no DQ. I actually think its better than thei Bout at WM, probably because of the atmosphere. Punk obviously wins as he continues his title reign. This would conclude this feud as Jericho would fight for the WHC while Punk would enter into a steller program with Bryan at OTL. **** ½ *

Match # 7: Brock Lesnar vs John Cena- Extreme Rules match

I LOVE this match; it might be my all-time favorite match from both men, and definitely from Cena. I just remember being so pumped for this match when I watched it live. I was not disappointed, this was a flat out FIGHT. Lesnar dominated the whole match till Cena pulled out his shit at the end to win the match. Brock is such a beast, I have Punk/ Lesnar at Summerslam at **** ½*, so this was better to me. MOTY 2012, and it’s not even close, Also one of the bloodiest matches of the PG era. ***** and its fairly obvious to me, I just wish Brock won. 

Overall a fantastic PPV. I love it and it was not a chore to watch it again. I skipped parts of the shitty matches and the entire divas match. PPV of the year and ME is Match of the year. So awesome.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Blu ray/DVD wish list for 2014:

Kurt Angle (documentary, promos, lots of matches)
Daniel Bryan (documentary, matches) - similar to CM Punk's set. It should acknowledge his indy work.
Undertaker (huge documentary, matches) - non kayfabe documentary going through his entire career. Three disc blu ray.
CM Punk vol.2 (lots of promos, stories and some matches) 
Ric Flair (Post WCW work only. Promos, matches, stories)
Christian (documentary, promos, matches)
RVD (documentary, matches, stories)
Royal Rumble Match Anthology (all the Royal Rumble matches from 1998 to 2010)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not sure if it's been posted, but WWEShop is doing a Buy 1 Get 1 Free DVD sale.

And with the mention of the Kurt Angle DVD set, I think this is the closest Angle's ever been to returning to WWE. I know there are people in this thread who are pretty critical of his in-ring work, but I love the guy and would love to see him come back.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ziggler/Brodus & Rhodes/Show are what makes that show even better imo. Both matches were a ton of fun and a nice segway between the really damn good stuff.



ATF said:


> Been digging the web, and after going thru Amazon, it made me think: other than 2000, which is the best Judgment Day?
> 
> Tbh 2001 and 2006 are my favourites.


It's 2005 for me. Cena/JBL & Eddie/Rey are both awesome, tag opener is fun and Booker/Angle & the Cruiserweight Title match are soli



Srdjan99 said:


> Lesnar/Punk or Bryan/Cena?


Bryan/Cena but I definitely loved both.



Srdjan99 said:


> I definetely must forget it this time, but was there a great Mysterio/Malenko match?


GAB '96 is pretty great imo. **** for me but it's been a while since I've seen it. Remember some pretty good selling from Rey.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I have such a hard time ranking matches. Give me 4-5 matches and I can rank them or tell you what my fave match is from *insert pro wrestler here* but ranking my "best" and "favorite" matches is next to impossible. Plus with pro wrestling it's so subjective and opinion based. I'd love to take the time and rank like my 50-100 favorite but it would be a lot of work. Like dating 10 girls at once or something. 

All of the above being said I don't think I like a match more than Savage/Steamboat Wrestlemania 3. Call me cliche all you want it is perfect in my eyes. 

Watching the greatest wrestling stars of the 80's set right now and watched an interview with Arn Anderson. I wish there was a title in WWE that was you know defended on tv. If they want to bring a little credibility back to the IC and US title they should defend them on Raw more. Just my 2 cents. 

As for the Flair/Steamboat trilogy I will go CotC > Chi Town Rumble > Wrestle War. But all 3 are amazing. Some days I think Wrestle War is the best match of the 3. I've watched that Clash match though as much as any of the 3. I was in second grade when it happened and remember it like yesterday. 

As for Vader matches I have a soft spot for Hart/Taker/Austin/Vader Final Four. I have a hard time finding a flaw in that match and as amazing as 97 was that might be my favorite match from 97. I'd love to see the title held up at some point and see a match or tourney to determine the champ. Maybe an 8 man tourney for the title at Survivor Series or something? Vader also had some killer matches with Foley, Sting, HBK at Summerslam and of course Flair. I need to watch more of his Japan stuff. Vader is just the tits. 

My wish list for WWE releases in 2014....
Daniel Bryan set & doc (like the Punk one)
Dolph set & doc (like the Punk one)
Best of Backlash
Best of No Way Out
Bob Backlund set (Backlund/Patera Texas Death, Backlund/Sheiik when Sheik won the title and Backlund v Bret at Survivor Series 94 on blu ray please with that promo at the end hahahahaha!!)
HBK Unreleased Matches 
Sting set & doc (this might not happen until he retires obviously)
Angle set & doc (see Sting)
Starrcade box set (ALL the Starrcades)

RVD set (maybe just a re-release like the Brock re-release.....they could add the money in the bank he won, match where he won the title from Cena, that badass match he had with Jericho on Raw a few weeks ago, etc etc) 
Owen Hart set (blu ray exclusive could be the Raw after Owen died....I had this on VHS for the longest time and would love a copy of it) 
Mid-Atlantic set
Best of Memphis set (I'm not sure if WWE owns the right to this but I'd love to see some old school Memphis stuff on blu ray with old school Savage stuff.....which leads me to my last wish)

Savage set re-release (Like the Brock one.....release the one that is already out but add a few more matches....like vs DiBiase at Wrestlefest 1988, vs Bret at Sat Night Main Event so I can have it in blu ray, the WCW World War 3 60 Man Battle Royal in Three Rings for the vacant WCW title, Spring Stampede vs Sting in 1998 in Savage's last title win, some stuff from like 86ish, etc....so it would be 4 discs, 3 blu rays......or FUCK maybe just an unreleased Savage one) 

I think we will see a second Punk set but maybe it's a little too soon. Maybe 2015-2016ish. 

Lesnar/Punk > Bryan/Cena. But both were great. Hope the Bryan/Rollins(Sheild) match Monday makes the blu ray extras. The bumps Rollins took Monday were just sick. The Best of Raw/Smackdown set is going to be the best of it's kind by a mile and we still have 4 months left.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ziggler/Brodus & Rhodes/Show are what makes that show even better imo. Both matches were a ton of fun and a nice segway between the really damn good stuff.
> 
> 
> It's 2005 for me. Cena/JBL & Eddie/Rey are both awesome, tag opener is fun and Booker/Angle & the Cruiserweight Title match are soli
> ...


I too really like GAB96 Rey vs Malenko, just watched it today in fact and it still held up. The arm work going no where was a bit silly, but that doesn't detract from the fact that its still one kick ass match.

I ALSO just this past hour watched Eddie vs Rey Judgement Day 2005. I think this match is severly underrated by a lot of people. As great as their Smackdown match was in June, this match was not that far behind it quality wise. What can you really say, it's Eddie and Rey, they are simply incapable of having anything other than high quality matches. Judgement Day is no exception by any stretch of the imagination. Eddie plays such a great heel in the ring with Rey, and Rey's selling/baby face performance is always top notch, it's just even better when he's facing Eddie. These two tell the story like no other, JD2005 is just an excellent, excellent, match, all the way around.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Imagine a Foley/Brock feud. Like 2002 Brock v 1999/2000 Foley. Maybe a trilogy. Brock v Mankind with Brock going over. Brock v Cactus in round 2 with Cactus going over. The third being Brock v Cactus Hell in a Cell. They just missed each other.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Imagine a Foley/Brock feud. Like 2002 Brock v 1999/2000 Foley. Maybe a trilogy. Brock v Mankind with Brock going over. Brock v Cactus in round 2 with Cactus going over. The third being Brock v Cactus Hell in a Cell. They just missed each other.


I'd rather see it against 1996 Foley as Mankind, but that's just me 

My biggest wish list for matches that I would pay to see happen are:

Eddie vs Undertaker
Eddie vs Stone Cold
Vader vs Brock Lesnar
CM Punk vs Stone Cold
Foley vs CM Punk
Daniel Bryan vs Chris Benoit
Lesnar vs Bret Hart
Bret Hart vs Kurt Angle
Mr. Perfect vs Dolph Ziggler
Cesaro vs Benoit
Cesaro vs Eddie
Macho Man vs CM Punk
HBK vs Lesnar
Aaaaaaand (it could still happen) Zayn/Generico vs Lesnar


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think I have ever marked out more for something wrestling related since Savage stopped wrestling then when Punk came out the Raw after Savage died in the Pink trunks. 

I did this with my friend once. We hosted a pro wrestling podcast and we came up with our dream cards. The first 4 are no brainers but mine was....

Austin V Hogan
Rock V HBK
Undertaker V Sting
Bret Hart V Kurt Angle
Road Warriors V British Bulldogs
Randy Savage V HHH
Eddie G V Ricky Steamboat
Six Man Tag- New Age Outlaws & XPac V Freebirds (all 3) 
Mr. Perfect V Harley Race
Rick Rude V Edge
Rowdy Roddy Piper V CM Punk
Pegasus V Daniel Bryan
Andre the Giant V Yokozuna
Terry Funk V Kerry Von Erich (this may have happened?) 
Chris Jericho V Brian Pillman


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I'd rather see it against 1996 Foley as Mankind, but that's just me
> 
> My biggest wish list for matches that I would pay to see happen are:
> 
> ...


How ziggler/hbk is not on that list the world may never know


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

About halfway through Flair/Steamboat CotC. The second match of their 1989 trilogy (which I'm sure 99% of you know) but yes I'm positive this is my favorite of the three. Just wonderful. Gets the full 5 from this guy. 

This match always makes me think of something when it comes to Steamboat. As much as I love Steamboat (probably in my top 6-10 faves all time) his psychology was weird. All the submission moves and arm drags (though flawless) and his finisher is a crossbody? Should have been the chicken wing.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to get some Matches for tomorrow recommendations on these?

Kane vs Benoit bad blood 2004
Rey vs Jericho GAB 2009
Randy Orton vs Jeff hardy rr 2008


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> How ziggler/hbk is not on that list the world may never know



Didn't they have a match back when he was in the Spirit Squad? Or am I completely mistaken about that?


Edit. I'd also mark for Steamboat vs Lesnar and Rey vs Steamboat in a battle of the best career baby faces of all time


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Need to get some Matches for tomorrow recommendations on these?
> 
> Kane vs Benoit bad blood 2004
> Rey vs Jericho GAB 2009
> Randy Orton vs Jeff hardy rr 2008


Kane/Benoit is a huge yes. Rather forgotten match when it comes to the general wrestling fan but it's probably one of, if not THE best match of Kane's career. ****. Do yourself a favor though and if you pop in Bad Blood '04, PLEASE also check out Orton/Shelton. Oh so good.

I truthfully haven't seen the other two, which is odd considering I've seen Rey & Jericho's other two PPv encounters from that year. GAB I hear is the best and if tops Extreme Rules then it's already above **** for me. 

I know Hardy takes a real slick RKO in their match at the Rumble.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Tempted to watch the entire bad blood 2004 PPV, how's the undercard besides orton/Benjamin?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bad Blood is only worth for two matches. Benoit/Kane and Orton/Shelton.

And definitely watch RR 08 with Orton/Hardy as well as the Jericho/Rey match. Both are pretty good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Tempted to watch the entire bad blood 2004 PPV, how's the undercard?


Not very good. Benoit/Kane & Orton/Shelton save the show. Eugene/Coach is actually pretty fun but that's it. Tag match is disappointing & Jericho/Tomko felt like a meaningless Sunday Night Heat match. HIAC between Hunter and Trips varies with each person but the length and overdrawn "epicness" make it not so fun to watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Not very good. Benoit/Kane & Orton/Shelton save the show. Eugene/Coach is actually pretty fun but that's it. Tag match is disappointing & Jericho/Tomko felt like a meaningless Sunday Night Heat match. HIAC between Hunter and Trips varies with each person but the length and overdrawn "epicness" make it not so fun to watch.


Awesome, gonna watch Benoit/ Kane now


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Need to get some Matches for tomorrow recommendations on these?
> 
> Kane vs Benoit bad blood 2004
> Rey vs Jericho GAB 2009
> Randy Orton vs Jeff hardy rr 2008


Love Kane/Benoit. Really simple big man-little man formula, but Benoit was in his zone that year. In all honesty, I think Benoit is my pick for best in-ring babyface in the past 15 years. Even put him above Mysterio.

Rey/Jericho Bash 09 is their best match together. Something special about this match that I cannot pinpoint, but it felt similar to other special Mysterio matches such as Orton/Rey 4/06.

Orton/Hardy is criminally underrated.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Favourite Flair matches post-WCW? I find him hilariously entertaining after this point.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

CM BORK said:


> Favourite Flair matches post-WCW? I find him hilariously entertaining after this point.


Well does his WWF run from 91-93 count? If so then....

Royal Rumble 1992 (this gets 6 stars and lots of jacking off)
Flair/Savage Wrestlemania 8
Flair/Bret Hart when Bret won the title (This should have happened at Survivor Series)
Flair & Razor/Savage & Perfect Survivor Series 1992
Flair/Perfect Raw 1993

If not.....

Flair/Vince Royal Rumble 2002
Flair/HHH Raw 2003 (forget the date)
Flair/Orton Taboo Tuesday 2004 Cage Match
Flair/HHH Taboo Tuesday 2005 Cage Match
Flair/HHH Survivor Series 2005 LMS
Flair/HBK Wrestlemania 24


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Kane/Benoit was sick,best match of Kane's career. **** 1/4*

And post WCW best flair matches are 1992 rr and vs hbk wm 24


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks, to clarify I meant post-WCW as in when WCW ended. So his run from 2001-2008.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Shelton vs orton was good as well, wish shelton won though. ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jeff Hardy vs Randy Orton @ Rumble '08 is a brilliant match. Better than a lot from that year you see pimped. Jeff Hardy was probably my favorite worker in 2008 with Undertaker. He was on fire. Matt Hardy, Bourne, Henry, & Finlay can have strong cases for them too if I ever get around to seeing all of ECW. Chavo too according to Yeah1993. I'll bite. I do like Chavo more than one may think.

And the undercard matches from Extreme Rules '12 are really good. Dig Ziggler vs Clay _(lol @ a waste of Dolph's time...clearly it didn't do anything to hurt the man and he's head and shoulders over Clay)_ & Show vs Rhodes is rather ingenious. Post-match destruction is gold.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I went to an ECW houseshow in '08 that had an AWESOME Bourne/Chavo match. Stole the show. However, Henry/M Hardy as the main event held it's own as well.

Extreme Rules '12 is a show I can watch from beginning to end and fully be entertained. It's the shelf of "AWESOME SHOWS" in my DVD collection (section excludes WM/RR/SSlam since I have their own shelf for them).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do you rank your shows by quality? b/c that would kind of be the coolest criteria I've heard of. I'm too fastidious & have to resort to chronological.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I sort of do. I have my Wrestlemanias, Rumbles and Summerslams in chronological order, then I have my top ten other PPVs in order and then after that it's by the name of the PPV and chronologically. But I've strongly considered doing that and might if I've got nothing to do the next day or two.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

God I love Extreme Rules 2012. One of those shows that has something for everyone no matter what kind of style of wrestling you like. I just mentioned this in another thread but I use to have a rasslin podcast with a buddy of mine and we interviewed Jay Hatton on an episode....one of the jobbers Ryback squashed that night. Good dude. 

Brye made me think of this.....I'd love to see pictures of everyones DVD/Blu Ray collections. I'm sure mine doesn't compare to a lot of peoples here but I'm very happy with mine at the moment. I found a place where I live that puts VHS onto DVD real cheap. I need to convert a bunch of shit. In my parents garage somewhere I have a few boxes with just about every WWF and WCW PPVs from like 1988-1994 on VHS.....just gotta look for it. 

I have all of my boxes on shelves but only the blu rays are in the cases. Everything else is in a 520 count disc binder I have.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> I sort of do. I have my Wrestlemanias, Rumbles and Summerslams in chronological order, then I have my top ten other PPVs in order and then after that it's by the name of the PPV and chronologically. But I've strongly considered doing that and might if I've got nothing to do the next day or two.


The top ten thingy is rather neat. I like that. Only drawback to when I moved was I couldn't take my large DVD case with me and have to use the much smaller scale here. Which has half of my collection stored in my closet. So all my WWE PPVs are put on the stand and the remaining gaps are filled with Indies. Meanwhile WWE DVD sets, TNA, & my crapton of burned comp discs are all in a massive pile. Made sure I kept the Sabin 2002 - 2004 discs on top of the heap, of course.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Jeff Hardy vs Randy Orton @ Rumble '08 is a brilliant match. Better than a lot from that year you see pimped. Jeff Hardy was probably my favorite worker in 2008 with Undertaker. He was on fire. Matt Hardy, Bourne, Henry, & Finlay can have strong cases for them too if I ever get around to seeing all of ECW. Chavo too according to Yeah1993. I'll bite. I do like Chavo more than one may think.


I'll wait until I've seen all of the 2008 ECW (WHICH WILL HAPPEN) to pass full judgment, but yeah, everything I've seen from 2008 Chavo has been good as shit. Chavo/Bourne 10/17/08 is my 2008 WWE MOTY and as far as I'm concerned, probably the best cruiser match the WWE ever did.



Brye said:


> I went to an ECW houseshow in '08 that had an AWESOME Bourne/Chavo match. Stole the show. However, Henry/M Hardy as the main event held it's own as well.


Oh SHIT that sounds awesome. I cry at all the 2008 ECW stuff that went untaped at house shows.

EDIT - I keep every wrestling DVD in binders. Every single one. I threw out the WWE cases for the DVDs (well, the box-y ones, I still have the leaflets and the 'in-DVD-slip' thingys) and put them all in a binder.

DOUBLE EDIT- NOT BINDERS, THOSE..THINGYS. WHAT ARE THOSE THINGYS? MAYBE THEY ARE BINDERS. CAPS LOCK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THINGS THAT CD'S GO IN?

I got to see this Chavo vs Bourne match. I'm not kidding. Like right now or else I'll go insane.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> God I love Extreme Rules 2012. One of those shows that has something for everyone no matter what kind of style of wrestling you like. I just mentioned this in another thread but I use to have a rasslin podcast with a buddy of mine and we interviewed Jay Hatton on an episode....one of the jobbers Ryback squashed that night. Good dude.
> 
> Brye made me think of this.....I'd love to see pictures of everyones DVD/Blu Ray collections. I'm sure mine doesn't compare to a lot of peoples here but I'm very happy with mine at the moment. I found a place where I live that puts VHS onto DVD real cheap. I need to convert a bunch of shit.
> 
> I have all of my boxes on shelves but only the blu rays are in the cases. Everything else is in a 520 count disc binder I have.


I'll post a pic tomorrow or something. Whenever I get a chance. (Y)



HayleySabin said:


> The top ten thingy is rather neat. I like that. Only drawback to when I moved was I couldn't take my large DVD case with me and have to use the much smaller scale here. Which has half of my collection stored in my closet. So all my WWE PPVs are put on the stand and the remaining gaps are filled with Indies. Meanwhile WWE DVD sets, TNA, & my crapton of burned comp discs are all in a massive pile. Made sure I kept the Sabin 2002 - 2004 discs on top of the heap, of course.


My comp discs are pretty much like that too. I have a huge ass Punk one and a TNA '06-'08 iMPACT set I found online a long time ago for like $30. Still need to watch most of that. :lmao

@Yeah1993, you mean something like this?










I use that (I'm pretty sure that exact one) for my movies that I bring to school.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> THINGS THAT CD'S GO IN?
> 
> I got to see this Chavo vs Bourne match. I'm not kidding. Like right now or else I'll go insane.


I should have brought a camcorder. :argh: Oh shit, nvm I didn't see the top of yeah1993's post. :lmao And in that case, I'ma need to watch that too.

Only weak point of that show was that there was a Ricky Ortiz match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well I meant the one from TV, but that one too if there was a chance. 

lolz Ricky Ortiz. That rally towel and not a single person cared. The only bust I can think of from ECW in 2008. Nobody correct me. I know Boogeyman was there.

Your sets seem to have way better variety than mine. Wished I had some TNA Impacts on DVD. Well, I do, but they're from 2011 & 2012 so they're hilariously poor pardon a match here or there. 2006 would be wonderful. Any of the hour editions would be. Show was greater with one hour over two.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

You're gonna love this, Cody. Ortiz faced Carlito. DREAM MATCH :lmao

ECW was doing so well balancing talent on that show. Yoshi was real fun to watch in '09. I wish Burchill got bigger than he did though. Always dug him.

'06 shows are pure awesome. Some of those 2 hour shows in '08 get brutal but almost in a funny way. Kaz/Black Reign Misty the rat on a pole is still GOAT TNA match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao if only Jerhi1993 was the guest ref for it. Could have be the eternal classic only a select few saw.

Yoshi Tatsu was relevant. The brand was making everyone look good. Burchill jobbed a ton, but he was swell. Liked the feud vs Helms & match vs Christian on Superstars in September or so was kind of fabulous.

No shortage of gimmicks there. The beer bottle on a pole match that happens later in the year gives it a big run for its money. Or in 2009 when it was Steiner vs Petey in a headdress on a pole match. VINTAGE.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Brye said:


> @Yeah1993, you mean something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, mostly like that. The stuff on the right, anyway. There's usually four DVDs per 'page'.


I would love to be ref for a Carlito v. Ricky Ortiz match. I could physically and verbally abuse both of them and they would be forced to continue to wrestle. "the hell ref, why aren't you makin' the count?" " B/C THA'S NOT COOL" *punches Carlito in the face*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

Best response ever.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

:lmao

I remember Ricky Ortiz having a special appearance on this weird gameshow that Syfy used to have. You had to run to certain obstacles and eventually find like money (or get out) or be the last one standing or something. There were HUNTERS that would chase after the people and capture them and Ricky Ortiz was one of the hunters. It was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. :lmao

Edit: Found the show.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cha$e


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

omg I watched that too. Pretty much for the random hilarity of picking a total nobody to be a guest.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

They were billing him like he was a 9x WWE Champion.

Nothing will beat the time I skipped my early class and was hanging out in my dorm watching TV. I put on Price is Right because why not? And BRIAN KENDRICK is a contestant on it. Wasn't even a special guest thing, he was just on it. :lmao

He acts like a nut on it too. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao :lmao :lmao

please, please try and find this for me if you can. I can only imagine his antics while bidding or doing THE Kendrick dance after being chosen.


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

Vader vs Owen from One Night Only was a master piece. Owen using his speed & high flying stuff against Vader's power, add to that a hot British crowd. It's a small version of Punk/Brock match.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao :lmao :lmao
> 
> please, please try and find this for me if you can. I can only imagine his antics while bidding or doing THE Kendrick dance after being chosen.







HE KINDA DOES IT COMING ON THE STAGE. :lmao


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

LOL, Brian's Price is Right appearance is great. Didn't TNA get a lot of shit from him doing it? LOL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

YESSSSS


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

So. Gotta make a post about this. 

Just watched Cena/Punk MITB, and this is one of those rare occasions where I pretty much watched this match once, on DVD obviously knowing Punk wins, then once more over a year later. SO that's a pretty fuckin long time between viewings, especially initial viewings, for me.

Anyways, beforehand I didn't think _too_ highly of a match. It was a great match, of course, but what really bugs me, both in the initial and in the follow up viewing, is the ending. 

I hate hate HATE the fuck that the WWE tries to play off the screw job. I think it's a move that's actually been done to death in pro wrestling. First WCW, in perhaps the greatest clusterfuck of all time, tried to recreate the Montreal magic with only the most highly anticipated as well as most disappointing match of all time, Sting/Hogan. The, the E uses it as a cop out for the Submission match between Punk and Taker at Breaking Point, using a variation of the screw job. Now, in the biggest WWE match in literally yearS, here we go again. McMahon calls for the bell, in not even just 'screw-job' intentions but "Let's rip off the Montreal Screwjob" and asks for the bell, only this time in a much more animated, cartoonish, go get 'em Johnny L kind of way. 

Is it just me, is was this just cold water on an otherwise near perfect match?

I remember a lot of ***** ratings for the match. A ton, actually. I didn't see it. Initally, I saw a sloppiness that actually evaporated over a year plus. I actually saw the potential of a five star match, until McMahon reared his ugly face.

Now, yea, it makes sense to do the Screwjob rip off here. Punk leaving with the belt, yadda yadda ya, whatever. But's it's still a rip off. It's a parody, a lack of true originality, a disapointment in an 'I've seen this before!' kind of way. I thought they had wrestled such a good, STRONG match, that they deserved to tell the finish on their own. I thought it would've been best for the match.

I understand this type of shit happens on Raw and TV. One of my favorite matches ever, Angle/Taker on SD! with the Lesnar interference, didn't have a clean finish. But it was SD! so I was ok with it. But, Jesus Christ, in the biggest match you've had in years, I really wanted a clean finish, just the two of em. 

I understand Vince makes sense, for the story. I get it. But I would've preferred a 'fresher' ending.

So I give it ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More news and some matches confirmed for the upcoming Raw Boxset:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/official-details-wwe-raw-20th-anniversary-dvd-box-set/49892/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on the picks:

Lita/Victoria - Nice choice, even though if they were going for a Divas match, they should've gone with Trish/Lita from December '04.

6-Man Tag - Meh. Typical AE stuff at best.

Rock/Mankind - Obvious choice. It only made sense for this to be in.

RVD/Santino - A glorified squash makes it here? Was this just to plug the 15th Anniversary?

Punk/Matt - It says to be the 2008 KOTR but I don't recall this at all tbh.

There's still more to come but atm I expected better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FYI, those match picks are actually telling us what FULL episodes of Raw are on the set .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So the FULL episode of Raw 15th Anniversary will make it there? Badass. :mark:

That's something we never ever discuss out here - which are the best Raw episodes ever?

The episode w/Austin stunning McMahon for the 1st time, Raw Is Owen and Homecoming are probably up there afaic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One Raw from 2004 jumps to mind straight away. The one with the Iron Man with HHH and Benoit. Only 2 matches on the entire show, and both at ***3/4 for me. Iron Man obviously, then the first match is probably the best battle royal (non royal rumble style one obviously) with Orton winning the #1 contendership for SS. 

Then a bunch from 00 and 01 could easily fill up the entire set on their own. Just so many unbelievably FUN shows, not with any necessarily GREAT matches because most only got a few minutes each, but everyone back then did such a good job of using those few minutes and making them matter. Plus tons of great promos and segments that make the shite from the Russo days look like, well, shite. 00 is definitely more on the FUN side of things with the better segments and promos, while 01 started to decline for segments and promos but gave us some fucking awesome matches on TV at times.

Which makes me wonder how they'll handle the "unedited" parts when it comes to including shows with BENOIT. They can't exactly miss 99% of the shows from the first half of the 00's just to be dicks, can they?

Yeah they can. Cunts.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Brye made me think of this.....I'd love to see pictures of everyones DVD/Blu Ray collections. I'm sure mine doesn't compare to a lot of peoples here but I'm very happy with mine at the moment. I found a place where I live that puts VHS onto DVD real cheap. I need to convert a bunch of shit. In my parents garage somewhere I have a few boxes with just about every WWF and WCW PPVs from like 1988-1994 on VHS.....just gotta look for it.
> 
> I have all of my boxes on shelves but only the blu rays are in the cases. Everything else is in a 520 count disc binder I have.


Here's my collection 



Spoiler: Images













Better shot of my main shelves


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That's huge, Platt.

Anyway, Regal/Ohno ***3/4.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Chismo said:


> That's huge, Platt.
> 
> Anyway, Regal/Ohno ***3/4.










:side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chismo said:


> That's huge, Platt.
> 
> Anyway, Regal/Ohno ***3/4.





Platt said:


> :side:


Which girl rated Regal/Ohno ***3/4?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What is everyone's favorite survivor series style elimination match? Mine is 2001, the alliance vs WWF.

I need to watch a ton of them from the 1990's though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT - I keep every wrestling DVD in binders. Every single one. I threw out the WWE cases for the DVDs (well, the box-y ones, I still have the leaflets and the 'in-DVD-slip' thingys) and put them all in a binder.
> 
> DOUBLE EDIT- NOT BINDERS, THOSE..THINGYS. WHAT ARE THOSE THINGYS? MAYBE THEY ARE BINDERS. CAPS LOCK.


I'm moving back to the city in two days and I had no idea how I was going to take my whole collection and bring it with me. NOW I KNOW.

YEAH1993 STRIKES AGAIN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> What is everyone's favorite survivor series style elimination match? Mine is 2001, the alliance vs WWF.
> 
> I need to watch a ton of them from the 1990's though.


Team Austin vs Team Bischoff AKA The Shawn Michaels Show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I swear that might be the most overrated performance EVER in the history of wrestling . HBK was good no doubt, the match itself was good too, but by absolutely no means spectacular or super impressive or even that memorable imo. HBK's probably done better and a bunch of other people have definitely done better.

I should change my name to Cranky Cal and just shit all over everyone's opinions in here .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Smackdown Vs RAW 2005.

GREAT match (not the BEST Traditional bout but no doubt it`s my favorite) that brings me back to probably my favorite period in wrestling. Batista being eliminated instantly despite being the World Heavyweight Champion? Orton VS HBK? Mysterio Vs Big Show/Kane/Michaels?

Plus, the post match stuff with Undertaker is one of my favorite Taker moments ever, complete with epic Taker beard and Regal tombstone.

& Cal, I think Shawn himself has had more overrated performances; Ironman w/ Bret being the tops. I'd say Summerslam 2002 but I'll give HBK a break seeing as how it was his first major match in four fucking years.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna pop in Survivor series 2004 now, I bought the DVD but never watched it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> I swear that might be the most overrated performance EVER in the history of wrestling . HBK was good no doubt, the match itself was good too, but by absolutely no means spectacular or super impressive or even that memorable imo. HBK's probably done better and a bunch of other people have definitely done better.
> 
> I should change my name to Cranky Cal and just shit all over everyone's opinions in here .


You already do that since ages ago :HHH

The only two Shawn single performances I prefer over SS 2003 are SS 2002 and SS 2007  Might as well call him Mr. Survivor Series :hbk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Too many people shit on the Iron Man match now for any part of that match to be overrated. People are coming around on the SS 02 match nowadays too . But they all still think HBK worked some kind of masterpiece in that tag match!!! Makes me so ANGRY but not really.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watch out for Shelton Vs Christian owning the show big time, Undertaker performing one of his finest performances ever (Heidenreich was a PAUL HEYMAN GUY, maybe they'll bring him back to feud with Punk ), & an electric main event that goes to show you that you can do traditional Survivor Series matches and make them work; they just need to have a stipulation behind them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I'd be tempted to find a SS Tag single performance with as much drama, emotion and the "I'll do everything to survive" dynamic as Shawn '03. Imho at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Gonna pop in Survivor series 2004 now, I bought the DVD but never watched it.


:mark: I love this show. Shelton/Christian is a favourite match of mine. Undertaker/Heidenrape is probably the most underrated Undertaker match ever, and the main event is one of the very best SS elimination matches imo .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> :mark: I love this show. Shelton/Christian is a favourite match of mine. *Undertaker/Heidenrape is probably the most underrated Undertaker match ever*, and the main event is one of the very best SS elimination matches imo .


Talking as a big web surfer, outside of this forum, Taker/Reich (and the following Casket match) are OK-recieved actually. Taker/JBL SSlam otoh is almost universally seen as boring and sometimes badly crapped on. I'd say that, for how good it actually was.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Last three WCW matches on Rey's DVD & your thoughts on them;

WCW Cruiserweight Championship
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chris Jericho
Souled Out - January 24, 1998

Winner Will Earn a WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis
Road Wild - August 8, 1998

Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Blitzkreig
Nitro - February 8, 1999

I've heard that the Psicosis match is boring, I DON'T BELIEVE IT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I only ever really see ME praise them tbh lol, but then again I don't venture outside of this thread much . JBL SS match gets shit on? FUCK THEM ALL! All the JBL/Taker matches from 04 PPV and 05 TV need some super pimping.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> :mark: I love this show. Shelton/Christian is a favourite match of mine. Undertaker/Heidenrape is probably the most underrated Undertaker match ever, and the main event is one of the very best SS elimination matches imo .


Not gonna be a buzzkill today cal? 

Cruiserweight match up first, looks decent.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Not gonna be a buzzkill today cal?


I could always shit on the rest of the show if you want? 

Speaking of shit I need one. When I get back I might dig out a random PPV from my collection and randomly ramble about it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Summerslam & No Mercy are both bossy while the Unsanctioned bout in 2005 may be the best of the bunch for me. Natural transition back into the Orton feud after that one was awesome, Taker was on his A-Game back in 2005 besides his shit fest with Luther Reigns, Hassan match doesn't really count as it was more of an execution than a match .

People like to bitch and complain about bringing back ATTITUDE, blood, and a whole bunch of other shit, but I'd be lying if I told you that I didn't want the brand extension back. I actually think they have the roster to do it once again, I miss it greatly.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I was watching some Smackdowns from 2009 on Hulu the other day, definetly miss the brand split, as of right now there is really no story progression on SD, they'll just recap it on Monday.

I really think they should get off Fridays, no one watches TV on Friday Night.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> I was watching some Smackdowns from 2009 on Hulu the other day, definetly miss the brand split, as of right now there is really no story progression on SD, they'll just recap it on Monday.
> 
> I really think they should get off Fridays, no one watches TV on Friday Night.


I downloaded all the SD 09 shows a couple of weeks ago. SO MUCH AWESOMENESS. I so miss the brand split, even more so when they had single brand PPV's.

And I watch TV on a Friday Night. I have nothing else to do . I'M SO LONELY.

Though I download WWE shows anyway so I technically watch SD in a Friday afternoon (got it waiting for me but I cba atm).

Watching a PPV. Shall post my ramblings in like, 2 and a half hours or so .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Don't worry Cal, I'll watch it live occasionally 

They have SD from 2009-present on hulu plus, all episodes!. Marathon impending

What PPV are you watching?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Heidenreich :lol

This match will be funny I'm sure, Christian vs Shelton on next :mark: :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm assuming you just finished the segment where Snitsky and Heidenreich get all weird and almost kiss :lol?

"I LIKE YOUR POETRY" :lol

"I LIKE WHAT YOU DO TO BABIES" :lol

What the fuck .

ANYWAYS. I'm losing. Cheap plug for my sig as I only have an hour and a half to come back. CLICK ON MY SIG AND VOTE FOR THE CORPORATE KINGOFKINGS and um... I'll watch and review a really shitty match or something.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Same goes for me need them votes guys :lol VOTE redskins25 !!

@Evan I put my dvds in a little box, and their on top of my closet in the dorm

Edit: Yeah, where the fuck is that 2010 list man ? :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'm assuming you just finished the segment where Snitsky and Heidenreich get all weird and almost kiss :lol?
> 
> "I LIKE YOUR POETRY" :lol
> 
> ...


Yep :lol, Have to stop the PPV for some bit because I REALLY need to get some work done for school, but I'm gonna put it back on in like 10 minutes to watch the IC title match :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watching SD now. Awesome story advancement so far, even though Orton's "heel wrestling" is anything but heelish. Also, :lmao at Ryback, he's quite fun currently tbh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> ANYWAYS. I'm losing. Cheap plug for my sig as I only have an hour and a half to come back. CLICK ON MY SIG AND VOTE FOR THE CORPORATE KINGOFKINGS and um... I'll watch and review a really shitty match or something.


Well i voted for ya


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'm assuming you just finished the segment where Snitsky and Heidenreich get all weird and almost kiss :lol?
> 
> "I LIKE YOUR POETRY" :lol
> 
> ...


I voted for you sir, but just so you know....That JamJam guys card is the tits. RANDY SAVAGE vs UNDERTAKER??? Plus Benoit, Hero, and Malenko in a triple threat? I don't even know if I could handle watching that awesomeness.....you still got my vote though because I don't know who that JamJam guy is. Sorry Redskins, I was so tempted to vote for yours for Kurt Angle vs Finlay alone, I just don't have any interest in seeing a greasy Hogan try and keep up with one of the greatest performers of all time. Plus Hogan would probably insist on winning.


Edit- if you win, I want you to watch and review Hogan vs Warrior at Halloween Havoc. You have to watch every last minute of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jesus christ, the price of this RAW box set is gonna be outrageous. Might be something I have to ask for for Christmas, cause there's gonna have to be some REALLY good shit on there to make me wanna spend a clean $80 on it. A 10 disc blu ray is pretty fuckin crazy though...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think Brock Vs Floyd would be an INSANE bout though, for the record. 

Matter of fact, there's a Wrestlemania XXX celebrity match if Rock doesn't wanna go. I think it would be incredible in all honesty.

& RAW Homecoming or GTFO. That's how I feel anyways. Gold Rush tournament round one RAW too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I voted for you sir, but just so you know....That JamJam guys card is the tits. RANDY SAVAGE vs UNDERTAKER??? Plus Benoit, Hero, and Malenko in a triple threat? I don't even know if I could handle watching that awesomeness.....you still got my vote though because I don't know who that JamJam guy is. Sorry Redskins, I was so tempted to vote for yours for Kurt Angle vs Finlay alone, I just don't have any interest in seeing a greasy Hogan try and keep up with one of the greatest performers of all time. Plus Hogan would probably insist on winning.
> 
> 
> Edit- if you win, I want you to watch and review Hogan vs Warrior at Halloween Havoc. You have to watch every last minute of it.





zep81 said:


> Well i voted for ya


Zeb I thought we had something

:lmao I'm joking those other two cards are awesome and its a shame this wasnt the actual finals. I thought DX 90s Hbk vs. hollywood hogan would be otherworldy and bret/kawada :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DO NOT WANT Raw Homecoming on the upcoming Raw set. Already got it on DVD, don't wanna have any repeats dammit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Shelton vs Christian was so good, MOTN out of two matches so far :lol

Full review coming when I'm done, but I'm also doing homework so it may be a while :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The only thing I ask is that they don't include the first episode of RAW from back in '93 cause that'll just be a waste of space and I'm pretty sure that's been already been released a time or two. Also I see no real need for the RAW Homecoming considering Edge/Hardy MITB and Angle/Shawn Ironman have already been released on other sets. Gold Rush though? Oh hell yeah, but I'm not so sure since Benoit is a big focal point... 

I'd LOVE to see some of those RAW Roulette episodes. Those were a favorite of mine. Not the one with the huge TLC though and Booker/Show in the Cage cause I already have that.  Selfish me.

Looking forward to your SSeries '04 review. Never seen the show but have always wanted too. Tried to buy it one day but Play N Trade never found the disc...


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Callamus said:


> DO NOT WANT Raw Homecoming on the upcoming Raw set. Already got it on DVD, don't wanna have any repeats dammit.


Agreed on that, same goes for the first show, 10th Anniversary, Eddie Tribute & Raw 1000.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They better feature some Raw shows involving Benoit in that huge DVD. More so from 2004. And the Gold Rush tournament is a must have too. But I want 2004 the most, specially 26/7, because most of them are in low quality nowadays when you download them. Knowing those pricks, they'll probably feature the one Raw from 2004 when Benoit was World Champion and absent. (it was some weeks after Backlash I think)

Where has the Eddie tribute appeared? I assume in Eddie's second DVD, but I heard they've edited out every bit involving Benoit. Does that include the opener with the whole roster on the ramp and Vince announcing it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They probably will put the first Raw on the set, but I agree, I don't want it. Already got it.

Nov 21st 2005 Raw needs to be included though. My first ever Raw taping I went to, and they didn't do the Live in the UK releases back then so I can never own it officially .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did the Raw 1000 set ever get released over here, Platt?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Angle/Shawn Ironman have already been released on other sets


Which set is that on?

EDIT - Guess it's on the Homecoming DVD

EDIT2 - Yeah Cal, Raw 1000 was released.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Angle/Shawn is on the RAW 15th anniversary set. The three disc one one where each disc has its own little case. And the Homecoming one obviously but that's pretty tough to find these days.

Wait a second, Cesaro faced Ziggler on Superstars apparently. Has anyone seen this yet???


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> EDIT2 - Yeah Cal, Raw 1000 was released.


It was? Because I can't find it anywhere lol .

EDIT: Ahhh, because its the top 100 Raw moments DVD. Stupid fucking name for the Raw 1000 DVD . Damn, I want to own that show but fuck that top 100 moments bollacks. I'll see if it's dirt cheap anywhere .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Angle/Shawn is on the RAW 15th anniversary set. The three disc one one where each disc has its own little case.


Ah, thanks mate, Must have totally skipped that match lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> It was? Because I can't find it anywhere lol .
> 
> EDIT: Ahhh, because its the top 100 Raw moments DVD. Stupid fucking name for the Raw 1000 DVD . Damn, I want to own that show but fuck that top 100 moments bollacks. I'll see if it's dirt cheap anywhere .


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/review-top-100-moments-raw-history-dvd-blu-ray/32015/

Includes Raw 1000 as a bonus DVD.

Sorry for the double post. Didn't see the edit


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So much for getting it cheap, £20 is the best price I can find (pre-owned even) for the Bluray version.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal is the Lita vs Trish Stratus match good on SS 2004?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope. Lasts like 2 minutes, I seem to recall one of them going into the match injured or getting injured during the match so it had to end quick or something.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That's New Year's Revolution 05 you're talking about. Lita did a move off the apron and injured her knee so the match was cut short. SVS was short too but because they ended it by DQ.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well at least its quick :lol

I'm on the Smackdown Elimination match, Looks promising.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That Smackdown elimination match was BORING. Some will think my rating is too low but man it sucked.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The SD elimination match is nothing special. It's not as bad a squash as Team DX vs Team Rated RKO from 2006, though. Only real highlight from the 04 SD match is John Cena breaking up Jindrak's pin after doing the elbows and mocking his little Rick Rude dance in front of the referee. :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm on the Womens match.......and it just ended :lol


I have to leave soon, review will be up tonight

JBL/Booker on now


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm 10 minutes away from posting my PPV ramblings . Definitely looking to be a GOAT PPV contender. Well top 10-ish anyway .


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If anyone would be able to burn me a copy of Raw is Owen and Raw is Eddie that would be amazing and I'd pay you for it. Send me a private message or something. Would make my day and stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2008*


Had to take the wrapping off this to watch it. Guess I bought it in bulk with a bunch of other DVD's when SV did their "going out of business cos WWE are cunts and are replacing us with a shitty company who charge rip off prices and only have like 10 DVD's in their library to sell you" sale.


*Matt Hardy Vs Mark Henry - ECW Championship*

:mark: What a way to start the show! HENRY! HARDY! ECW TITLE! I miss the ECW brand when WWE had it. Except that time when Bobby "bathturd" Lashley was the main guy. Mid-Late 08 onwards was just awesome. So much talent. These 2 guys were big parts of it for the 08 period too. In fact they were pretty much the biggest part of the 08 ECW awesomeness.

Hardy is the fighting champ, but Henry is the World's Strongest Man and lost his title without being pinned in the Scramble match the previous month, so he's fucking PISSED.

HENRY SMASH! Then Matt finds an opening and goes for the legs of Henry! Tony Atlas is screaming "NOOOOOOOO!" on the outside that really helps put over what kind of a threat Hardy might actually be if he continues to destroy the WSM's legs.

Henry's power allows him to, well, power through the leg work and continue to try and maul the champ, but Hardy is pretty spectacular with his comebacks, and damn that finish was fantastic. The FIGHTING SPIRIT~! of Matt is shown, the leg work comes into play, and Henry is finally defeated.

Me like this match. Could have done with more time, but what ya gonna do? They did a great job and worked a pretty sweet match regardless of the time.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


As much as I don't really care too much for HHH... I do have to wonder what he was thinking in the backstage interview with him and Jeff as Jeff acts all... Jeff right in front of his face. I'm thinking "the fuck is wrong with this weirdo?" so fuck knows what HHH is thinking lol.


*Beth Phoenix Vs Candice Michelle - Women's Championship*

LOL.

*Rating: No*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Hi Kane . Does he like, carry red lightbulbs around with him so he can set the mood backstage for his interviews and shit? Or does he just scare the production crew into doing it for him? Why am I putting any thought into something fake? FUCK YOU VINCE RUSSO. What?


*Rey Mysterio Vs Kane - If Rey loses he must unmask*

:lmao remember how everyone thought this feud was all about Kane getting his mask back? That burlap sack that we all thought was KANE'S mask, then it turned out it was Rey's and this feud was about Rey losing his mark? Some crazy dumb shit right there lol. And now Kane has his mask back again. AND GUESS WHAT HE DIDN'T GET ANY MORE AWESOME. Not that I think he sucks balls, but why oh why did everyone think his mask would somehow make him 97/98 Kane again?

Anywho, I always really liked the chemistry between these two. I hope this is the match I remember as that match was great. When it's over I'll let you know if it was that match or not. Ok? Good .

We need to invent a drinking game where we take a shot any time Rey takes a big boot in a match against a giant. Easy way to get absolutely fucked 5 minutes in . Rey bumps like a fucking GOD for everything Kane throws at him, and Kane throws some good shit. All basic, but it all looks good and Rey sells it like murder. The clothesline early on to stop a 619 attempt might as well have beheaded Rey. Kane is awesome everyone. Stop hating and start... I dunno, not hating so much.

There's a spot that I thought was more awesome than I think anyone should think such a small spot should be but fuck it I loved it. Rey was sat up on the mat, and Kane ran the ropes and did the boot to the face spot. Not the dropkick, but just a running boot. You know the spot. Anyway, Kane kinda slows down as he gets to Rey, as if he doesn't want to really kick Rey's head in because, fake and shit... but then it's like Kane realises real quick that it would look terrible for him to do the kick now because he's practically stopped now. So he makes up for it by just smashing poor Rey's face in with a boot . So in order to prevent accidentally smashing Rey's face in by going too fast, he slowed down and smashed Rey's face in because it would look bad if he didn't :lmao. And I marked out a little inside.

NEW DRINKING GAME! Take a shot any time Kane hits a side slam in this match. Pretty sure I'd need my stomach pumped before the match was over. Andy and Craig would probably just be a little tipsy by now. Unless they got a head start and got drunk before they started. Alcoholics. Now hurry the fuck up and ring me from Tesco or where ever you are going Dad so you can tell me what offers are on beer and I can transfer money into your bank account and you can get me some and I can get drunk tonight before I go to work tomorrow even though my contract ended today.

Rey's comebacks in this match make Matt Hardy look like the biggest amature EVER in the Henry match. Just spectacular. And speaking of, the finish :mark:. Yes, this IS the match I was thinking of. I know because of the finish. Was dumb as shit in terms of the feud and the stipulation (because Kane got himself DQ'd so Rey wouldn't lose his mask...), but damn it looked awesome.

Yeah I adore this match. A ton. Kane is great at beating down Rey, and Rey bumps around like a lunatic and sells the shit out of everything really well and is just all round great throughout.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


MVP demands to speak to Vickie backstage, but Big Show scares him off. So MVP comes out to the ring instead. And gets interrupted by Randy Orton. Who gets interrupted by Priceless and Manu. Fans chant "Boring" with as much passion as possible for such a chant. Orton leaves. Thanks for coming. MVP talks about how he would love to hang out with Priceless if he was on Raw, and they shun him off. Punk and Kofi come out, and talk MVP into running down to the ring and attacking them. MVP gets in the ring and Punk and Kofi laugh as he gets mauled. THESE ARE THE BABYFACES. Oh wait it's ok they help MVP in the end after he takes an arse kicking first. Cunts. THIS ENTIRE SEGMENT WAS POINTLESS AND DID NOTHING. 


*Batista Vs John Bradshaw Layfield - Winner becomes #1 contender for the World Heavyweight Championship*

Kinda scared to watch this match because... you know, they suck together. That sounds wrong but I'm rolling with it. Takes effort to delete shit.

Oh hey this isn't too bad! Nice brawling, some hard hitting shots, and the Clothesline from Hell counter by Batista is cool, though JBL seems to almost have a delayed reaction to taking the Spear . JBL tries to slow the match down with a sleeper, but thank fuck they get out of that spot quickly otherwise I might have had to shoot someone.

BATISTA BOMB. And this one is over. It's short, hard hitting and fun. Could have done without the sleeper hold, but at least it only lasted like half a minute. Not high on the old STARS~! but given the time it got and what they did, I couldn't bring myself to going any higher even if I enjoyed it. Nowhere near bad at all though, so don't let the rating fool you. Circumstances are the only reason it's low.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


JBL's promo after the match is sweet. Starts off like he might be turning face then he turns it right around and looks like the biggest cunt on the planet. ALL HAIL JBL. Then Cryme Tyme show up and dance with the divas then steal JBL's limo. Way to ruin JBL's promo. Then Sgt Slaughter saves it by showing up with the biggest, cheesiest grin on his face and hops in the back of the limo with all the divas :lmao. Then Mickie James kills it by trying to be "fly".


*The Undertaker Vs The Big Show*

The first match on the show without any title or stipulation lol. In fact I think it's the only match like that on the show.

I loved Undertaker/Big Show feud from this time. Doesn't officially end until like Feb 09, and even when they weren't having matches we still got to see them slug it out (RR for example). One thing I did think was odd though, was how they handled the Vickie part of it. Undertaker was trying to kill her, so Show turned heel and aligned with Vickie to take down the Dead Man. Then Undertaker gets his hands on Vickie and Tombstones her before the first Show/Taker match? Strange. Surely they should have like, built up to Undertaker FINALLY getting his hands on her? Then again maybe Undertaker wanted to get it out of the way early rather so he didn't have to thinking about getting his hands on her for too long .

So this match is about 2 big bastard punching each other. Repeatedly. And it's better than almost everything else ever. And holy fucking shit at the bump Undertaker takes from the running shoulder block by Big Show. He nearly did the "turned inside out" bump, but not quite... almost like he didn't mean to but Show ran into him THAT FUCKING HARD he couldn't control himself properly lol. Looked amazingly sick.

What else can I say about this? 2 big bastards punch each other. I love it like it's the greatest thing ever. The fans are all over it too. It's mega awesome. A DDT is done as a legit believable finish to the match. Undertaker does the spot where he scares the ever loving shit out of the referee for trying to get in the middle of him and Show during a punch out. :mark:

Finish shocked me back then and honestly still shocks me today. Ok the exposed turnbuckle comes into play for the finish, but still, UNDERTAKER LOST IN 2008 BY KO. And I'm not even mad! In fact I loved this match more than ever before this time around!

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*Triple H Vs Jeff Hardy - WWE Championship*

Trable Haige Vz Juff Hervey fur deh dubly dubly eeeeeeeee titel.

Match starts with Jeff doing the whole "nobody thinks I can wrestle so I'll do basic wrestling moves to prove them wrong and put my opponent off his game" schtick, but quickly goes back to his high risk offense and unfortunately he crashes and burns allowing HHH to take control. Not really sure what I think to the opening parts of the match tbh. Yeah, Jeff did the "unexpected" to try and take HHH off his game and shit, but then that leads to Jeff just doing his usual shit and it backfires on him. So uhhh... why even bother with the "wrestling" stuff before hand? Might as well have had Jeff go all out to begin with, rocking HHH with some quick, high impact moves before HHH finally avoids something because Jeff went to the well far too often. Transitions into HHH's control segment the same way, but doesn't waste the time at the start of the match lol.

Thankfully the wasted time at the start of the match is the only real thing wrong with this match. HHH works well in control, Jeff is good fighting from the bottom, and like every other match on the show so far, it features some rather wonderful comeback and cut off spots. Those 2 things have really been the highlight of the entire PPV thus far, and probably a big reason for me loving everything thus far too lol. 

Love how they keep working in Jeff's high risk offence as being a big game changer (no pun intended. Unless you laughed, then I totally meant it), both working for Jeff and against him. Finish is... a little odd tbh. HHH gets hit with the Swanton but still has enough strength to counter the pin fall afterwards and hold Jeff's shoulder's down for the 3. Odd but I kinda liked it.

Have to admit I've gone down on this match since last time. Not by much but I definitely saw some flaws in it that prevented it from being as great as I used to think it was.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Triple H walks to the back, gets congratulated by ARN FUCKING ANDERSON, then Vladimir Kozlov shows up to kick start their little feud that would result in one of the worst main event matches in the history of existence.


*Chris Jericho Vs Shawn Michaels - World Heavyweight Championship Ladder Match*

I miss Mike Adamle. Bring him back as SD GM or something, with Big Johnny on Raw and have them feud. IMAGINE THE PROMOS!!! Or they could join forces to take down the new McMahon-Helmsley-Orton faction! Imagine the promos with Big Johnny, Mike Adamle and Randy Orton!!!

Man oh man was the whole HBK/Y2J 08 feud overrated to fuck . Started off good, all stemming from the HBK/Flair match which lead to the Batista match where HBK faked an injury and Jericho called him out on it and somehow turned heel in the process but it was all GOOD SHIT. And then it just draaaaaged on. Then at SummerSlam they did the angle with Jericho decking HBK's wife RIGHT IN THE KISSER and things got heated up again only to die out very, very quickly and get dull as shit again. All the mediocre at best matches didn't help (except for JD which I enjoyed).

I've never been overly high on this match, but at the same time I've never hated it. Always did think it was very good, I just never got the "GOAT ladder match/MOTY" praise it got. Half way into it so far and I am absolutely loving it though. They are just beating the absolute shit out of each other, at first by brawling and going to the outside where the ring post was used a couple of times, and then with the ladder that results in some rather nasty looking shit. Loving how this comes across as a very personal match filled with oodles of HATE~! A lot of ladder matches, some I consider the best of it's gimmick, usually seem to be all about having a good "wrestling" match then bringing the ladder in for high spots (for the most part anyway, don't want to generalise all ladder matches like that but you get my point). This one is different. They are trying to MURDER each other by using the ladder, and if they get the chance, claim the WHC for themselves too.

But for as much HATE~! as we get, we also get a bunch of STUPID~! thrown in too. Some immensely dumb spots, the main one being HBK ELBOW DROPPING A LADDER while it's on top of Jericho. Yeah, hurts Jericho too, but absolutely fucks up HBK's arm. I could have bought that Jericho put the ladder over himself to give him some protection and injure HBK at the same time... IF he had moved the ladder while HBK was in mid-move. But nope. Jericho drags the ladder over himself and THEN Shawn dives off the ropes already seeing and knowing the ladder is there. Next spot right after that? Lionsault onto a ladder while HBK is underneath. Again doing just as much damage to the person doing the move. DUMB AS SHIT. Doesn't even really work into the HATE~! thing. I just can't accept the old "willing to hurt himself to hurt his opponent" crap because there are smarter ways to go about hurting your opponent with the ladder and doing as little damage to yourself. Maybe if the spots were "quick thinking" type spots that are done out of desperation, but again, NOPE *insert Ambrose pic here*. They are all purposely SET UP like that. Makes me wanna scream out loud.

Both men battling it out at the top of the ladder and quite literally fighting over the belt is awesome... except for when Lance Cade runs in at one point and kinda kills it for me a little. Fuck Lance Cade. I hope he di... uhhhh yeah. Ooops . Lance Cade aside the tug of war finish is pretty sweet, and the entire match IS mainly very good, but fuck me those dumbarse retarded fucking spots really kill part of the match for me. Match should be a classic but instead it's just really good. Not that that is a bad thing, but it really could have been so much better. Still liked the majority and it WAS a good main event for a pretty great PPV.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 19*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Easily a Top 10 B-PPV ever imo alongside (in no order) No Way Out 2001, Backlash 2000, Extreme Rules 2012, Canadian Stampede, Vengeance 2003, Vengeance 2005, No Way Out 2006, MITB 2011 and Fully Loaded 2000.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Had to go to the gym, still got like 2 matches on ss 2004, and I'm goin to a concert tonight, hopefully I'll finish it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> *No Mercy 2008*
> 
> 
> Had to take the wrapping off this to watch it. Guess I bought it in bulk with a bunch of other DVD's when SV did their "going out of business cos WWE are cunts and are replacing us with a shitty company who charge rip off prices and only have like 10 DVD's in their library to sell you" sale.
> ...


Great, great review man, major props. You had me laughing out loud several times, that was an enjoyable read.

Man I'm glad someone else agrees with me on that ladder match. I have NEVER understood how people think that's a MoTY contender or a top 5-10 ladder match of all time. It's definitely not bad, but in now way was it overly memorable and a lot of that is because of the dumb spots they did. That Michaels elbow onto the ladder was some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen, he didn't do it in a cool RVD take punishment to give punishment way, it just came off as silly to me. I need to rewatch that Taker vs Big Show match, there is nothing I love more than two big bastards slugging it out, and I remember that match being an exquisite display of such a match. 

Again, props on the review, that was highly entertaining my man.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I personally think Razor/HBK is the best ladder match, followed by .....IDK, need to watch the WM 16 match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> I personally think Razor/HBK is the best ladder match, followed by .....IDK, need to watch the WM 16 match.


What do you think to Benoit/Jericho RR 01?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> What do you think to Benoit/Jericho RR 01?


Personally i _may_ call that the best, i thought so on my last watch, but i need to watch some more ladder matches, like the HBK/Razor one for a start.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> What do you think to Benoit/Jericho RR 01?


Oh shit forgot about that one, probably second best, that was sick. I need too buy that PPV, but the match would be edited out correct?

I definitely have HBK/Razor at *****, need to rewatch Benoit/Jericho soon, might be ***** as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hardys/E&C NM 1999 is worth a mention imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Oh shit forgot about that one, probably second best, that was sick. I need too buy that PPV, but the match would be edited out correct?


Nope. WWE's Royal Rumble and SummerSlam anthologies have no Benoit edits in their site. You can also get this match in the Ladder Match DVD, so it's one Benoit match that's easy to get.

The only time they edit him out are only on new releases or if they air a "full" show on their On-Demand channel.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Or DL it from my sig (unedited/unblurred)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That settles it, I'm buying Royal Rumble 2001 soon. 

I need to get a new DVD player soon though, it's like 10 years old. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I got it on the Ladder Match set. It's easily my favorite ladder match, better than HBK vs Razor at SS95' (I prefer their SS match to their Mania match, by a good margin). Benoit and Jericho beat the absolute piss out of each other in that match, that chair shot is so wicked, and they did a whole lot of creative things I've never seen before or since ( probably because those things look like they really, really, hurt). I haven't seen every ladder match ever, but out of the 40-50 I've seen, none approach the perfection that is Benoit vs Jericho, the only ladder match I'd seam worthy of "the full five".

1. Benoit vs Jericho at Royal Rumble 2001
2. HBK vs Razor at SS95'
3. Eddie vs RVD on Raw 2002
4. HBK vs Razor at Mania10
5. Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy on Raw
6. Sheamus vs Morrison (I'd need to rewatch this to me sure, but I remember really, really, really, loving this the first time I saw it.)

I'm not counting Money in the Bank or TLC matches on this list, just 1 on 1 straight up ladder matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Haven't seen their summerslam match, will see it soon, is it on the ladder match 2: crash and burn DVD? Because I am not buying that PPV, Undertaker vs Undertaker ME :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: someone loves Eddie/RVD Raw 02 Ladder too :mark:. Just going with single ladder matches and not including TLC matches, my top 3 would be the same as cjack828.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> :mark: someone loves Eddie/RVD Raw 02 Ladder too :mark:. Just going with single ladder matches and not including TLC matches, my top 3 would be the same as cjack828.


Oh you bet man, I absolutely LOVE that match, it's exactly what a ladder match should be in my book. That was Eddies first ladder match ever (the abortion he had with syxx in WCW does NOT count). It's amazing how good he was, and he and RVD said on the commentary for it that they called pretty much the entire thing in the ring, including the finish after the ladder gave out on RVD while he was trying to hit the frog splash. It was just so physical and exciting, I don't know what else to say it was a masterpiece in my mind.

Edit- no it's not on the second ladder match set, it's on the first one (the far better one too in my mind). Ladder Match 1 has SS95' with HbK and Razor, SS98' with Rocky and Trips, Royal Rumble with Benoit and Jericho, all 3 of the original TLC matches, the Flair and Edge Ladder match, the Bret vs Shawn Ladder match that was the first in WWE history, it's just filled with sick stuff.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna rewatch the Ladder match 2: crash and burn DVD on netflix and review every match, some of them are like deep south stuff I think, some WCW on their too. That'll be a crazy long review, as their's like 30 matches on that DVD. 

ME of SS 2004 about to start :mark:- I really don't want to go to this concert TBH- even if friends will be there.


----------



## WeAreProWrestling (Mar 2, 2013)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I kinda like the second ladder match set. Lawler/Miz :mark:, Del Rio/Christian :mark:, 3 Count/Yung Dragons, Austin/McMahons, E&C/Hardys from Raw 00 that is a wonderful hidden gem that I was so happy it was included after I saw it when I watched all of 2000 again lol, Morrison/Sheamus :mark:. Plenty of super fun matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> :mark: someone loves Eddie/RVD Raw 02 Ladder too :mark:.


Add me to the mix. Watched it for the first time a couple of weeks ago and loved it despite the botch with the ladder in the end.

Thinking about it, I'm interested in doing a list for best ladder match in WWE history.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck sake, reading all this Ladder shit makes me wanna dig out the bloody Ladder match DVD's 

I still wanna see that Russo timeline, plus i just got the new JCP doc too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I've only seen the second set of them, as it was on netflix. checking the listing to the first set now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Fuck sake, reading all this Ladder shit makes me wanna dig out the bloody Ladder match DVD's
> 
> I still wanna see that Russo timeline, plus i just got the new JCP doc too.


JCP doc is a lot of fun, some interesting things that I didn't know about. Russo timeline is a decent watch. I always enjoy Russo shoots, even if I wanna punch him in the face . His constant digs at Generation Me are awesome though :lmao.

Watched that Barbed Wire ECW documentary the other week. Was decent at best.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh man theres a Tajiri match on ladder match 2 

Ladder match 1 has a lot of repeats(well technically 2 does), wonder if I can find it somewhere for dirt cheap.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> JCP doc is a lot of fun, some interesting things that I didn't know about. Russo timeline is a decent watch. I always enjoy Russo shoots, even if I wanna punch him in the face . His constant digs at Generation Me are awesome though :lmao.
> 
> Watched that Barbed Wire ECW documentary the other week. Was decent at best.


Thanks bud, That JCP Doc is three discs :| So there is guaranteed to be a lot of stuff i don't know, as i'm not THAT high up on JCP history tbh 

Im looking to get that ECW doc at some point, the Rise and Fall of ECW is still THE doc to go for IMO, love watching that one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Other 2 discs are just matches I think, I only downloaded the first disc myself lol .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

there's three ECW match sets on netflix if anyone wants them, I've never got around to them though, Maybe soon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Other 2 discs are just matches I think, I only downloaded the first disc myself lol .


Oh, well that is a bonus at least lol. :


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Other 2 discs are just matches I think, I only downloaded the first disc myself lol .


This seems to be the full listing mate:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460538362/jim-crockett-promotions-documentary/posts


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I kinda like the second ladder match set. Lawler/Miz :mark:, Del Rio/Christian :mark:, 3 Count/Yung Dragons, Austin/McMahons, E&C/Hardys from Raw 00 that is a wonderful hidden gem that I was so happy it was included after I saw it when I watched all of 2000 again lol, Morrison/Sheamus :mark:. Plenty of super fun matches.


I think the 3 Count/Yung Dragons match is actually on the first set, correct me if I'm wrong though. *Edit:* No sorry my bad, the one on the first set is 3 Count/Yung Dragons/Knoble & Karagias, which is a great match IMO. Will have to check out the other one. Have to disagree with you on the E&C/Hardys Raw 2000 ladder match though, I watched that recently and thought it was pretty awful apart from a couple of spots.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

AlienBountyHunter said:


> I think the 3 Count/Yung Dragons match is actually on the first set, correct me if I'm wrong though. *Edit:* No sorry my bad, the one on the first set is 3 Count/Yung Dragons/Knoble & Karagias, which is a great match IMO. Will have to check out the other one. Have to disagree with you on the E&C/Hardys Raw 2000 ladder match though, I watched that recently and thought it was pretty awful apart from a couple of spots.


Yea I wasn't really a fan of that match from Raw in 2000 either, but I am a big fan of the 3 Count Yung Dragons match on the first set, probably the best ladder match WCW ever had.

RVD didn't really "botch" the frog splash at the end, they had just been beating each ther senseless with that one ladder for so long that it was no longer structurally sound. It just gave out on him when he tried to balance at the top. I usually consider something a botch only if its a wrestlers fault. Other than that one spot though the match was absolutely flawless, so so physical. Eddie Guerrero was the fucking man from 2002-2005 in WWE, he could do no wrong. Not to say he wasn't great before then, I just think those were his peak years.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame they edited out the fan running into the ring and knocking the ladder over part . I seem to recall Eddie giving him a swift kick in the head lol.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Can anyone recommend me a good HHH/Edge match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Can anyone recommend me a good HHH/Edge match?


Nope. No such thing lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Shame they edited out the fan running into the ring and knocking the ladder over part . I seem to recall Eddie giving him a swift kick in the head lol.


In Eddie's book he says that he actually thought it was Crash Holly at first. :lmao


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*WWE Money in the Bank 2013*

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match for a World Heavyweight Championship Contract*: Jack Swagger vs. Damien Sandow vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Fangango vs. Wade Barrett - ***3/4

*Intercontinental Championship*: Curtis Axel vs. The Miz - ***

*Divas Championship*: AJ Lee vs. Kaitlyn - **3/4

Chris Jericho vs. Ryback - ***1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*: Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler - ***1/2

*WWE Championship*: John Cena vs. Mark Henry - ***1/2

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match for a WWE Championship Contract*: Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Christian vs. Rob Van Dam - ****


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I remember throwing a ***1/4 rating for their GAB encounter


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So, looked around for Royal Rumble 2001 DVD on amazon, 30 dollars(US) too much? Or should I just save up for the Royal Rumble Anthology Vol 3 for 80 bucks?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Get the RR Anthology. Surely you can pick up the entire thing dirt cheap by now? If not just that volume would do I guess. 98-02 is it? 01 and 02 shows are two of the absolute best RR shows overall. 98 has the awesome casket match. 99 is terrible. 00 has the awesome street fight and the awesome tag team tables match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Get the RR Anthology. Surely you can pick up the entire thing dirt cheap by now? If not just that volume would do I guess. 98-02 is it? 01 and 02 shows are two of the absolute best RR shows overall. 98 has the awesome casket match. 99 is terrible. 00 has the awesome street fight and the awesome tag team tables match.


Best Buy and FYE don't have it, can't think of another place that would. Amazon is my only option, cheapest their is 80, haven't checked Ebay yet, but I have NEVER used Ebay, always Amazon, I'll check prices there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wow WWE.com has every RR anthology BUT 3 :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Nope. No such thing lol.


The 3 way match with Edge, Trips, and Cena at Backlash 2006 is not bad at all actually, I really like it. Trips hits a gusher and bleeds all over the fucking place. Also has the highly entertaining spot where Cena and Trips take turns bashing Edge's head into the announce table. I dunno, I really liked it, I remember it being like a 3.5-3.75 star worthy match.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

1, 2, & 5 are here for around $44 each:
http://www.deepdiscount.com/index.c...ts?Ntk=primary&Ntt=royal+rumble+anthology&N=0

The entire 20 disc anthology is there for around $176.

I've used them before for non-wrestling DVDs, and they are reliable. There's also no minimum for free shipping, so that's why I've used them.

ETA: Looks like they are now charging shipping for orders under $25. That wasn't always the case. Oh well, that doesn't apply to this case anyway.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to think about it, might get the 20 disc

I'm heading to Best Buy to get a new DVD player tomorrow, probably will pick up at least one DVD


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Survivor series 2004 review 



*Match # 1:* Rey Mysterio vs Billy Kidman vs Chavo Gurrero vs Spike Dudley(c) - fatal four way match for the cruiserweight title

Really fun match, tons of cool spots, a really good choice for the opener as it was not too long at only 10 minutes and it was fast paced and got the crowd hot for the rest of the show. I prefer this match to the cruiserweight open done at WrestleMania XX this year as all guys got a good amount of work in, and all are talented, though Rey and Chavo are really the only ones that would go anywhere. Decent match, but obviously not legendary by any means.* *** ½* *

*Match # 2*: Shelton Benjamin(c) vs Christian- singles match for the IC title

Everyone was telling me this was match of the night; it sure looks that way so far energetic match that combines the freak athlete in Shelton Benjamin with the charismatic nature of Christian. Great match, Tomko played a huge part by interfering while the ref looked away, hitting Benjamin with the IC belt. It’s now obvious to me that Christian plays a much better Heel than a face, he’s much too bland ATM. WWE needs Shelton back, as he’s so good in the ring.* ****1/4* *

*Match # 3*: Kurt Angle, Mark Jindrak, Luther Reigns, and Carlito vs Eddie Guerrero, Big show, John Cena, 
and RVD- traditional survivor series matchup

I am a huge fan of these types of matches, but I have no idea who Mark Jindrak or Luther Reigns is, but I’m a big fan of everyone else in the match. The match doesn’t officially start until after John Cena runs after Carlito until Carlito apparently steals a car, and apparently Carlitos such a loser he’s out already :lol. Match officially starts with Angle and the two people I don’t know against Cena’s stacked team. Angle’s team dominates the first few minutes, but nobody is eliminated yet. The match is pretty slow for a while as Angle’s team mows over Eddie. Finally RVD gets the tag and the pace is quickened. But a few minutes later RVD is eliminated. Minutes later Jindrak is eliminated, and its 3 on 2 now. Big show eliminates Reigns and its 3 on 1 now. RVD comes back out and distracts Angle while big show attacks hi, Cena then gives him the FU followed by an Eddie frog splash, big show comes in and Pins Angle. 

A pretty bad match, the whole thing with Carlito was stupid and Angles team was shit compared to Cena’s. It’s also relatively short at around 10-15 minutes; these matches should be at least 20 IMO. ****

*Match # 4*: Heidenrich vs the Undertaker- singles match

Heidenrech’s gimmick seems a little stale, but he has Paul Heyman se he must be okay. I have honestly never seen one of his matches so I go into it with it only knowing the in ring abilities of the Undertaker. This was a decent match, which surprised me, it wasn’t MOTN by any means but I thought it did its job as a filler match. Heidenrech never really did much in the WWE as he would be released in 2006, but I think if his gimmick wasn’t so dumb he could’ve been a decent midcarder.* ** 3/4* *

Match # 5: Lita vs Trish Stratus- singles match for the womens title

Ends in two minutes :lol- DUD

*Match # 6*: Booker T vs JBL- singles match for the WWE title

Big fan of both these guys, more JBL than Booker T TBH, I expected great things from this match, at least *** ½*. Things start out much faster than your average match; it’s really good in the opening minutes. Orlando Jordan’s at ringside which sucks, but JBL and Booker both are crazy charismatic. The match slows down a little bit but booker T does a pretty cool suplex off the top rope. The crowd’s crazy behind Booker T, as JBL is an awesome heel, and Booker’s a good babyface too. Orlando interferes so much that the ref looks more stupid than usual. Then he gets knocked out, so Orlando clearly attacks Booker and grabs a chair. Then Josh Mathews attacks Orlando Jordan and I’m just done. JBL hits the clothesline and wins this silly match. Not too bad, but it certainly could have been better, obviously JBL wins as he drops the title to Cena at WM 21 but Orlando Jordan and JOSH MATHEWS almost ruined it. *** 3/4**

*Match # 7:* Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, and Maven vs HHH, Batista, and Snitsky- 

traditional SS match for control of the Raw for one month. 
Looks to be an awesome match, Snitsky took out Maven earlier so I guess he’s out already? Anyway two STACKED teams, and miss the SS style match in the ME, made it feel really special. Kind of wish Ric Flair was in this match instead of SNITSKY, whose okay I guess, but Flair would have been better. Benoit was the first one eliminated, which did NOT make me happy, I mean, its Benoit! Flair is comically ejected minutes later for interfering, which was funny. Batista is the first one off HHH’s team and I’m in shock of how Snitsky is still in. Then MAVEN comes down to the ring with no pop AT ALL, like Curtis Axel level of non-pop :lol. Snitsky gets disqualified and this match gets better, crowd seems happy. HHH then eliminates Maven. We’re down to 2 on 2, Orton and Jericho vs HHH and Edge. Jericho then gets Speared by Edge and its 2 on 1. The ref seems to just say “screw it “because there’s so much illegal action that it’s funny. Orton RKO’s Edge and we’re down to Orton and HHH. They battle for a few more minutes till a Pedigree turned RKO sends HHH packing and Orton picks up an awesome win. 
Just an awesome match, in my top 5 of SS style matches and this one had the advantage of having an awesome storyline behind it. Orton went over and got the clean win. Wish Benoit would have stayed in a little longer but besides that just an epic match. MOTN and ***** ½**, just a hair better than Christian/Shelton. 

Great PPV, one of my favorite Survivor series PPV’s because it felt like Survivor series and a big 4 PPV, something we haven’t seen in a while. It’s awesome to see this kind of match ME Survivor series as it’s a gimmick PPV that needs to have the Gimmick ME.* 8/10* from me. 


Such a LONG review :lol


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell at the moment. Only maybe the 3rd time I've seen this. Damn good and way bloodier than I remember.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm attempting to review every match on the ladder match 2: crash and burn DVD, it's gonna take a while :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Watching Batista/HHH Hell in a Cell at the moment. Only maybe the 3rd time I've seen this. Damn good and way bloodier than I remember.


Dude that's a Top 10 all time cell match for me, I really really liked it. It's just so hard hitting and brutal, everything a cell match should be. I love the Stuff with the chain and barbed wire wrapped chair. we will never see a match like that again. I'm really high on it, it's Batista's best match for his career and one of the better ones for Mr. Haitch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

boy are theses ziggler/shield handicaps loads of fun ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Eddie Guerrero vs Syxx(X-Pac) ladder match up now, is it any good?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> Eddie Guerrero vs Styxx(X-Pac) ladder match up now, is it any good?



NO! GOD NO! TURN IT OFF NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!

Seriously, don't spoil your opinion of Eddie by watching that abortion. You can thank me later


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Your watching ladders 2 on netlfix arent u ?

I'd recommend

hbk/razor ( goat ladder ***** match)
mitb 23
sheamus/JOMO
chrsitan/adr
hbk/y2j

yea that match is shitty


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> NO! GOD NO! TURN IT OFF NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!
> 
> Seriously, don't spoil your opinion of Eddie by watching that abortion. You can thank me later


But I wanna review this whole DVD 

I already know Eddies awesome so, I'm gonna watch it. Liking eddies pornstache though :lol

Redskins yeah already watched Razor/ HBK for like the 10th time, i got it at ***** as well. review of the whole DVD will be posted tommorow, unless I throw some kind of all nighter.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eddie/Syxx was not a very good match, but I thought it was hilarious. Gotta love good ol' face Eddie making a fool out of his opponents.

Has anyone done a project involving watching and reviewing all the Clash of the Champions events? Sounds like something worth pursuing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm a huge fan of Sheamus vs JoMo, that's one of the best matches either guy has had in WWE.

I personally don't think Mania 10 was as good as the rematch they had at SummerSlam 1995.

And redskins, you honestly have that Mania10 match ahead of Jericho vs Benoit RR2001? Even if you put you HBK fandom aside? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything I'm just wondering, because I actually watched them both back to back like Jericho says to do in his book, and I cam away convinced that the Royal Rumble match is the greatest ladder match of all time, better than Mania 10 by a decent margin.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Eddie/Syxx was not a very good match, but I thought it was hilarious. Gotta love good ol' face Eddie making a fool out of his opponents.
> 
> Has anyone done a project involving watching and reviewing all the Clash of the Champions events? Sounds like something worth pursuing.


I think their something on Netflix about Clash of champions. Yeah its the best of WCW: Clash of the champions 

3 discs of matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> I think their something on Netflix about Clash of champions. Yeah its the best of WCW: Clash of the champions
> 
> 3 discs of matches.


Yea I've watched that entire set, Flair vs Sting is just awesome, and most everything on it ranges from solid to great.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> Yea I've watched that entire set, Flair vs Sting is just awesome, and most everything on it ranges from solid to great.


Definetly will get to it after this. 

How often does netflix put new WWE DVD's on instant?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did WCW ever have a good ladder match? I've heard good things about Benoit/Jarrett but have never seen (I don't THINK, I watched a lot for that WCW list and may have then), but other than that did they have a good ladder match? I don't have fond memories of the 2000s ones and Eddy/Syxx was worthless.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> Definetly will get to it after this.
> 
> How often does netflix put new WWE DVD's on instant?


Not nearly often enough, I check every week


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mankind/ big bossman on next. don't remember liking this match. we will see.

Oh shit heel HBK at commentary is amazing. This is when he holds up the signs grading mankind :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I personally don't think Mania 10 was as good as the rematch they had at SummerSlam 1995.
> 
> And redskins, you honestly have that Mania10 match ahead of Jericho vs Benoit RR2001? Even if you put you HBK fandom aside? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything I'm just wondering, because I actually watched them both back to back like Jericho says to do in his book, and I cam away convinced that the Royal Rumble match is the greatest ladder match of all time, better than Mania 10 by a decent margin.



You know man, its two things, hbk-fanboy aside( I try to not have that cloud my judgement for things)

1) I'm a mark for the originals, the blueprints, and I also hate too much spotfests that why I hate those tlcs. Saying that I like it because again, its the original, its simple, basic, and gets the job done, and it also happens to have my favorite of all time which is a plus

2) Ive never seen Benoit/Jericho 

Ive never seen razor/hbk II also


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Ive never seen Pegasus/Jericho


whaaaaaaaaaaaat? :bosh2


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just got Kane's DVD, Macho Man DVD, Greatest Stars of 90s DVD, Rise and Fall of WCW DVD, Hardy Boyz DVD, and Best of Raw 15th anniversary. :mark: No idea what to watch first..


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> You know man, its two things, hbk-fanboy aside( I try to not have that cloud my judgement for things)
> 
> 1) I'm a mark for the originals, the blueprints, and I also hate too much spotfests that why I hate those tlcs. Saying that I like it because again, its the original, its simple, basic, and gets the job done, and it also happens to have my favorite of all time which is a plus
> 
> ...



I order you, no I command you, no I ask you politely  to watch this masterpiece right meow!

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-rkKiRs9wpU

Or whenever you get a chance, you know. You will thank me I'm sure, even if you stick to your guns and say HBK at Mania is better, this is still an all time classic.

P.s. is anyone watching Smackdown now? This is some great Tv, I love the whole Big Show angle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SaviorBeeRad™;23337697 said:


> Just got Kane's DVD, Macho Man DVD, Greatest Stars of 90s DVD, Rise and Fall of WCW DVD, Hardy Boyz DVD, and Best of Raw 15th anniversary. :mark: No idea what to watch first..


Macho Man, feast your eyes on the greatness that is his match with Warrior at Mania, or his classic with Steamboat at Mania, or his match with Flair at Mania, or his match with DiBiase at Mania. MACHO MAN

Edit- what is everyone's thoughts on Benoit vs Triple H at Vengeance 2004? I'm about to watch it but the run time is 40 minutes so I wanna make sure it's a good one before I commit that much time to this.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Had Savage/DiBiase got 20 minutes at WM4 they could have had a classic. It's still a fun little 9 minute match. I marked like a 7 year old because.....well I was 7.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I started watching it, but I'm kinda tired and I dont want it to cloud my judgement so I'll hold off until tomorrow. Those 800am classes will kill you

Edit : I prefer pick your poison


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Brock Lesnar (c) vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship - WWE Backlash 2003: ***1/2*

Really good match. Prior to the match, Cena cuts a rap promo where he said that he'll be better than Bruno Sammartino, insults Mick Foley, and disses Massachusetts while wearing a Yankees jersey, bringing in heat since the show was held in Massachusetts. Brock enters the match with a bandage on his head from getting busted open by Cena at the Smackdown before the PPV. Soon as the bell rings, Cena quickly charges Brock, cornering him trying to get the early advantage, but Brock attacks back. Brock gets the early advantage by using power moves and reversing Cena's attacks. Cena gets out of the ring to regroup after getting his ass kicked and Brock tries to catch him, but Cena changes the momentum by throwing him into the steel steps, busting him open in the process. Cena makes good work on the head wound from punching it, kicking it, and doing several moves to attack the head. Whenever Brock makes a comeback, Cena would just attack the head and Brock would just go down. Brock makes another comeback and there was some good back-and-forth action with Cena almost getting the win after low blowing Lesnar and quickly going for the school boy, but Brock kicked out. Cena tries to use his chain to attack, but the ref stops him and that gave Brock the opportunity to go for the F-5 and grab the victory. Cena looked really good in this title match considering he was in the company for only a year at the time. Several miscommunications made me give this match a lower rating than I wanted, but it was still a really good title match. 

*Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena in an Extreme Rules match - WWE Extreme Rules 2012: ****1/2*

It's been 9 years since Cena and Lesnar faced each other and boy, have things changed over that period. In 9 years, Cena became the face of the WWE and a multi-time WWE and World Champion, becoming a dynasty. Brock on the other hand was making it known that he is a legitimate fighter and that he could kick anyone's ass after conquering the UFC by claiming the UFC Heavyweight Championship. Cena walks into this match wearing his former trademark chain and padlock, a nice touch to symbolize that he is ready for a FIGHT. There's definitely a big fight feel to this match and the crowd was really into it. The match starts off when Cena heading towards Brock but Brock quickly takes him down, strikes him with puches and elbows and busts him open just 10 seconds into the match. The refs tried to slow down the match by trying to move Brock away from Cena whenever he would knock him down and they would check on him, seeing if he was still going to fight thus showing how much of a beast Brock Lesnar is. Whenever Cena would head towards Brock, Brock would continue the process by knocking him down and put on a severe beating. Even a simple strike like Brock kneeing Cena in the gut adds a lot of emotion and storytelling into the match. I thought that Cena played a great underdog in this match as I enjoyed watching him try to mount some kind of offense and Brock would just stop him in his tracks. Brock looks like a complete animal from knocking down refs, wrapping a chain around Cena's legs so that he couldn't move, pulling a ref up with one hand, throwing Cena around like a rag doll, and talking trash as he's putting on the beatdown. Momentum starts to shift when Brock has a kimura locked on while laying on the steel steps, but Cena pulls him up and knocks him onto the steps. The climax happens when Brock tries to go for a jumping strike but Cena catches him by striking his head with the chains wrapped around his fists. Cena then executes the AA onto the steel steps, getting the win. Just a great match. A fun, entertaining fight with great storytelling.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

these 1999 ladder matches are cool. Foley vs Rock for the WWF title. They really should of done a triple threat at mania 15. could of been great, unlike Rock vs Austin. 3 count vs yung next :mark: :mark:.

NO ITS SHANE AND VINCE VS AUSTIN! This sucks dammit!!1


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jung Dragons vs 3 count is the shit


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *Brock Lesnar (c) vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship - WWE Backlash 2003: ***1/2*
> 
> Really good match. Prior to the match, Cena cuts a rap promo where he said that he'll be better than Bruno Sammartino, insults Mick Foley, and disses Massachusetts while wearing a Yankees jersey, bringing in heat since the show was held in Massachusetts. Brock enters the match with a bandage on his head from getting busted open by Cena at the Smackdown before the PPV. Soon as the bell rings, Cena quickly charges Brock, cornering him trying to get the early advantage, but Brock attacks back. Brock gets the early advantage by using power moves and reversing Cena's attacks. Cena gets out of the ring to regroup after getting his ass kicked and Brock tries to catch him, but Cena changes the momentum by throwing him into the steel steps, busting him open in the process. Cena makes good work on the head wound from punching it, kicking it, and doing several moves to attack the head. Whenever Brock makes a comeback, Cena would just attack the head and Brock would just go down. Brock makes another comeback and there was some good back-and-forth action with Cena almost getting the win after low blowing Lesnar and quickly going for the school boy, but Brock kicked out. Cena tries to use his chain to attack, but the ref stops him and that gave Brock the opportunity to go for the F-5 and grab the victory. Cena looked really good in this title match considering he was in the company for only a year at the time. Several miscommunications made me give this match a lower rating than I wanted, but it was still a really good title match.
> 
> ...



I gave both matches the same ratings you did. Cena vs Lesnar at ER is just excellent. I don't go so far as saying it deserves "the full 5" but 4.5 seems about right for how excellent the story telling was, how different it was, and just how absolutely vicious Brock Lesnar was in it.

Brock Lesnar is on a different planet people, in case you didn't know. Taker has the spot as "best big man ever" locked up. That's never changing, he's the Phenom for a reason. But with each classic he puts on, Brock Lesnar is making a case for himself being the 2nd best "Monster Heel" the WWE has ever seen, behind only the Deadman (yes people, I'm aware Taker was a face for a good portion of his career. He still gets classified as a Monster Heel in my book). Brock's matches bring that "big fight" atmosphere, and he is just pure ruthless aggression while in the squared circle. He just BEATS people. We will never see another wrestler like Brock Lesnar, I'm almost certain of this. He's unreal, not human. People his size with his strength and his athleticism should not be allowed to exist. He's like a human cheatcode. He's the personification of "Tecmo Bowl" Bo Jackson, except in wrestling.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

on the last match of disc one of Ladder match 2, some good stuff here.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RVD/Christian is on Ladder Match 2 right? WATCH THAT



smitty915 said:


> Eddie Guerrero vs Syxx(X-Pac) ladder match up now, is it any good?


At this point you've already gotten through it, but no, it's not very good. 



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Just got Kane's DVD, Macho Man DVD, Greatest Stars of 90s DVD, Rise and Fall of WCW DVD, Hardy Boyz DVD, and Best of Raw 15th anniversary. :mark: No idea what to watch first..


Can't go wrong with Macho Man or WCW. Kick it off with the Rise and Fall. Good doc.



cjack828 said:


> Edit- what is everyone's thoughts on Benoit vs Triple H at Vengeance 2004? I'm about to watch it but the run time is 40 minutes so I wanna make sure it's a good one before I commit that much time to this.


They start off really good and you think it's gonna turn into something great but then it starts to drag and the overbooked ending occurs. *** 1/4 for me.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Christian/RVD is up soon!

BTW I live in VA also


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I found a very good macho/dibiase that I really enjoyed on YT that wasn't mania


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Christian/RVD is up soon!
> 
> BTW I live in VA also


Yeah buddy! Where you at? I'm right outside of Winchester. Up towards the northwest side close to the West Virginia border.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah buddy! Where you at? I'm right outside of Winchester. Up towards the northwest side close to the West Virginia border.


I live in Leesburg, about 30-45 min away from you


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah buddy! Where you at? I'm right outside of Winchester. Up towards the northwest side close to the West Virginia border.


Virginia Beach, hours away :lol

RVD/ Hardy on now :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> I found a very good macho/dibiase that I really enjoyed on YT that wasn't mania


Wrestlefest 88? That match is great.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I really need to watch more Macho matches, but their so old that I have trouble watching them on the computer. Maybe I'll get a DVD of him tomorrow.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I live in Leesburg, about 30-45 min away from you


Shit that's crazy! I'm in Stephens City.



smitty915 said:


> Virginia Beach, hours away :lol


Hahaha. Hey if you're ever in the Newport News area definitely make sure to check out a place called MovieStop (or if there's one in VA Beach). So many wrestling dvds for dirt cheap. Gotten a ton of great deals there.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> *Brock Lesnar (c) vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship - WWE Backlash 2003: ***1/2*
> 
> Really good match. Prior to the match, Cena cuts a rap promo where he said that he'll be better than Bruno Sammartino, insults Mick Foley, and disses Massachusetts while wearing a Yankees jersey, bringing in heat since the show was held in Massachusetts. Brock enters the match with a bandage on his head from getting busted open by Cena at the Smackdown before the PPV. Soon as the bell rings, Cena quickly charges Brock, cornering him trying to get the early advantage, but Brock attacks back. Brock gets the early advantage by using power moves and reversing Cena's attacks. Cena gets out of the ring to regroup after getting his ass kicked and Brock tries to catch him, but Cena changes the momentum by throwing him into the steel steps, busting him open in the process. Cena makes good work on the head wound from punching it, kicking it, and doing several moves to attack the head. Whenever Brock makes a comeback, Cena would just attack the head and Brock would just go down. Brock makes another comeback and there was some good back-and-forth action with Cena almost getting the win after low blowing Lesnar and quickly going for the school boy, but Brock kicked out. Cena tries to use his chain to attack, but the ref stops him and that gave Brock the opportunity to go for the F-5 and grab the victory. Cena looked really good in this title match considering he was in the company for only a year at the time. Several miscommunications made me give this match a lower rating than I wanted, but it was still a really good title match.
> 
> ...


Great review StraightEdgeJesus. I have the same rating for the Lesnar/Cena match at Backlash 03. Both guys looked good out there but I noticed the miscommunications as well which looked awkward at times. It didn't hinder the match that much though.

I've always wanted to see the Smackdown 4/13/03 house show match between Brock and Cena. I hear that's the one where Cena gets legit knocked out from a second F-5 delivered by Brock.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a Saturday night me irrc


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Shit that's crazy! I'm in Stephens City.
> 
> 
> Hahaha. Hey if you're ever in the Newport News area definitely make sure to check out a place called MovieStop (or if there's one in VA Beach). So many wrestling dvds for dirt cheap. Gotten a ton of great deals there.


I know where your talking about! by the airport! never been in there though, might have to make the trip, only like 45 min from my house. '

wonder if theres one in VB, will check.

THEY SHIP! tons of cheap DVDS!!

EDIT: theres a moviestop in Norfolk! great!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> I know where your talking about! by the airport! never been in there though, might have to make the trip, only like 45 min from my house. '
> 
> wonder if theres one in VB, will check.
> 
> THEY SHIP! tons of cheap DVDS!!


You're welcome. :sandow

Last time I went in I got TLC 2012 for 7.99 and the Lesnar Here Comes The Pain Blu Ray for 12.99. DEALS. Check out their box sets too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're welcome. :sandow
> 
> Last time I went in I got TLC 2012 for 7.99 and the Lesnar Her Comes The Pain Blu Ray for 12.99. DEALS


Thanks man! I just started watching WWE in April so my collection is limited ATM. I would LOVE to go here and just stock up!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Thanks man! I just started watching WWE in April so my collection is limited ATM. I would LOVE to go here and just stock up!


Shit we got a newbie!  Don't worry, we'll take care of ya and won't let you buy any horse shit for the collection.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Lord Flvcko said:


> I've always wanted to see the Smackdown 4/13/03 house show match between Brock and Cena. I hear that's the one where Cena gets legit knocked out from a second F-5 delivered by Brock.


That seems like a delight to watch lol

What a BEAST :brock


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

6 months is a newbie? 

I watched it as a kid but only watched RAW and SD because I couldn't order PPVS and didn't know about streams :lol now I'm obsessed haha

Christian/RVD on now!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> 6 months is a newbie?
> 
> I watched it as a kid but only watched RAW and SD because I couldn't order PPVS and didn't know about streams :lol
> 
> ...


Well April was 4 months ago.  But yeah compared to the majority of folks in here it's newbie status. I've been watching since I was 4-5 so about 17 years. Paul Bearer scared the shit out of me as a child. hahaha

AWESOME MATCH!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Here Comes the Pain blu ray for $12.99? WHOA!!! :jericho


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This is insne! 2000 word review of entire DVD is coming! I'm making an all nighter out of it! Why not? I start school Tuesday


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

tempted to give this match five stars......IDk


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ WOAHHH, you fuckin loved it! haha



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Here Comes the Pain blu ray for $12.99? WHOA!!! :jericho


Exactly! Fuckin love that place. Seek it out for anyone and everyone here in the states.



smitty915 said:


> This is insne! 2000 word review of entire DVD is coming! I'm making an all nighter out of it! Why not? I start school Tuesday


Do us all a favor and split it up into the 3 individual disc reviews.  That's how I do them at least. Makes it easier imo.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched Undertaker/Brock from Unforgiven 2002 today. I hadn't seen the match in a long time and it was even better than I remembered. ***3/4 and it almost got more.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ^^^ WOAHHH, you fuckin loved it! haha
> 
> 
> Exactly! Fuckin love that place. Seek it out for anyone and everyone here in the states.
> ...


Will do, that means part 1 is gonna be posted soon.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well this cover art is pretty god damn great... Shame there's no reason to buy this whatsoever. Like at all.

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-money-in-the-bank-anthology-dvd-blu-ray-cover/49952/

I love the color difference between the dvd and blu ray and the incredibly random inclusion of Kofi Kingston.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Ladder Match 2: Crash and burn review*​ * Hosted by Christian*​
*Disc one*​
*Match # 1: Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels- ladder match for the Intercontinental title (WM X)
*

The first ever ladder match, and man was it a classic. Perfect place to do this at WrestleMania X, as it reached the most possible viewers being at WM than it ever would be on RAW or at another PPV. I LOVE this match, probably too much, I’ll watch it like 10 times a year for a nostalgia pop and to see what is in my opinion, the GREATEST ladder match in the history of the WWE, Benoit/Jericho is a close second to me, but man, I don’t know if anything will ever top this. The chemistry between Michaels and Scott Hall(Ramon) is impeccable because in real-life they were great friends. This was an excellent PPV which included another amazing match in Owen Hart vs Bret Hart, and I believe the ME was Yokozuna vs Bret Hart? Don’t quote me on that. *****

*Match # 2: Tracy Smothers vs. Chris Candido- Ladder Match (Smokey Mountain Wrestling)*

Man, we are officially in ******* territory here as one of the competitors is wearing the confederate flag, and I think he is a face :lol. Not expecting much from this match, as I have no idea who these people are. I can barely here the commentating, and there is some cash prize. This is a meh match, and it looks really weird seeing the person grab an index card :lol. **

*Match # 3: Eddie Gurrero vs Syxx(c)- ladder match for the US title(WCW NWO souled out 1997)*

It took me a few minutes to realize that Syxx is X-pac. This match is shitty as hell, Slow and boring. This is weird because Eddie is awesome and consistently pulls out awesome matches; maybe it was an off night. Scott hall was the ref and I think he wanted to punch these two. The beginning Is the best part of the match as it is the most fast paced. Ending was dumb, match was boring. *

*Match # 4: Mankind vs Big Bossman- Ladder match for the Hardcore title RAW November 1998)*

I thought I remembered hating this match. But it’s hilarious. Heel HBK is at commentary and I’m laughing my ass off. He keeps calling Mankind fat and its just great. It’s super short though, less than 10 minutes, but for a RAW match it’s good. Foley would lose the belt here and gain the WWE title in a few months. ***

*Match # 5: The Rock vs Mankind- ladder match for the WWF championship (RAW February 1999)*

This is how the rivalry of the rock vs Stone Cold Steve Austin came to Fruition. Mankind had won the WWE championship about a month ago on RAW and the Rock challenged him in a ladder match. I thought this was a decent match, especially for RAW. Stone cold on commentary is awesome and he might be just as funny as HBK in the last match. Rock won and that spawned a disappointing bout between the two at WM XV, they had two awesome ones after that though. I think they made a mistake by not booking mankind vs rock vs SCSA, that could have been GREAT. *** ½*

*Skipped Vince and Shane vs Austin, it’s just too shitty. 

*Match # 6: jung dragons vs 3 count (New Blood Rising 2000)- six man tag ladder match. *

Wow, I think this is the best WCW ladder match in the history of the company. It was a spotfest but there were SO MANY. Words cannot describe how awesome this is. Go out and see it for yourself. This was on WCW’s final years as a company and the arena is like only ¾ full. But man this may be in my top 20 ladder matches of all time, and this was the first time I had seen this match. **** ½* 

*Match # 7: Edge and Christian vs the Hardyz-ladder match (RAW September 2000). *

I would kill for matches like this on RAW nowadays. I liked this match, but it also was a spotfest. But seriously, you can’t really go wrong with a ladder match involving these guys, it’s gold every time they step in the ring. This isn’t one of their best, but I love it too. Personally their TLC matches and their WM 16 matches are much better, but it is still good. *** ¾*


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Kofi is probably on the cover of it because kids love him. Some 9 year old at Target will see him on there and ask his hot ass Mom to buy it and she will because she spends all of her husbands money.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

^ :lmao There was actually a little kid with her mom at WalMart a while back who complimented my CM Punk shirt and said he was her favorite along with The Miz :side:. And no, the mom wasn't hot.

Really liked SD tonight. The opening segment, Bryan's run-in, and the closing segment were all awesome. Bryan got another decent match out of THE BIG GUY too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Found my old review from when that set first came out, let's just say I wasn't quite as high on the 3 Count/Jung Dragons match. 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/10814637-post10848.html


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> *Ladder Match 2: Crash and burn review*​ * Hosted by Christian*​
> *Disc one*​
> *Match # 1: Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels- ladder match for the Intercontinental title (WM X)
> *
> ...



Good review sir, but just so you know, the ladder match at Wrestlemania 10 was not the first ladder match ever 

The first ladder match took place in Stampede Wrestling, back in the early 70s. The prize was a wad of money, I can't remember the names of the guys in it, I'm sure you could google it.

The first ladder match in WWE was between Bret Hart and HBK and took place in 1992 for the IC championship. Pretty nice match too. Hope that cleared it up for you


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

there's a womens match on here! Beth Phoinex is awesome so why not....

Wm 23 MITB on after this!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gonna do some short reviews of a few Brian Pillman matches right now. Sorta like what Yeah1993 does, but with longer matches.

*vs. Ric Flair (2/17/90)*
Flair's classic champion vs. underdog face formula that never fails; this time with one of the best possible babyfaces in Pillman. Love how Pillman matches up to Flair with his chops. Man jumps and flies around the ring which initially confuses the GOAT, but then the GOAT tries to move the action to the outside in order to stop the onslaught. Brian is able to bring the action back in the ring and put it in his favor, but then he leaves an opening for Flair to take advantage of like he always does. For the few of you who did not have the pleasure of watching Flair back in his athletic peak, the man could make a very interesting control segment with things you never thought he could do. At some point, Pillman makes his big comeback that Flair bumps around like a madman for. As the match progresses, the nearfalls get more convincing and we really start believing that Pillman can pull it off even if we know he won't. And really, that is all you can ask for in a match like this. Excellent match worth viewing.

*vs. Rick Rude (2/15/92)*
My goodness, two top heels in a row now in two very similar matches. Rude's sarcastic handshake offer in the beginning of the watch was so well-done. Unlike the Flair match, it was Rude who had the early onslaught, but then Pillman finds an opening (Rude's knee) and attacks it. Rude's knee selling is how he makes people convinced that Pillman can win the match even though we all know he won't as opposed to Flair's crazy bumping. Please watch this match as well. Also get to see a young :heyman

*vs. Windham (3/23/91)*
Pillman has a broken shoulder here that he sells pretty well, which is pretty big because if there is one flaw I found in Pillman's wrestling ability, it is his inconsistency with selling injuries. When Pillman tries to do anything, he uses the right part of his body instead of his injured left to make his move. Once again, Pillman finds his opening by attacking the taller Windham's knee, but once again Pillman loses focus and creates an opening for Windham to attack. Match really picks up when Windham takes control. Windham's attack of the arm here is so good, and I love how he still remembers to sell his knee in the meantime. Similar underdog story of the other matches, but not as conclusive of a match. Regardless, we still see some fun stuff in seven minutes.

STAR RATINGS:

vs. Flair: ******
vs. Rude: *****1/4*
vs. Windham: ****1/2*


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*The Undertaker vs The Big Show from Smackdown 8/14/03*​This match is your typical Taker vs Big Show match with Taker trying to take Big Show down with a hard-hit and Big Show overpowering him. It's a formula between the two that always more or less works for them. Great selling of the ribs by Taker with the Big Show going after it throughout the match. Show throws Taker into the referee for a referee bump as they brawl inside the crowd area with the A-Train hitting Taker with a 2 by 4 across the ribs. Didn't really understand the need for the ref bump if the match was going to end in a No Contest either way. Questionable finish aside, it's a solid match. While it's not anywhere near their No Way Out 2003 and No Mercy 2008 encounters, it's a really good slugfest between the two. This was to further advance the feud between Taker and the A-train leading to their Summerslam 2003 match which served it's purpose. 

Rating: ★★★


Also check out Kidman & Mysterio vs TWGTT which is on the same show. :


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No idea what I'm gonna watch after the ladder match DVD. Might just watch 10-15 matches and post it tommorow

still got a few more hours on this though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:hb

Smackdown 8/14/03 love. Yeah that Taker/Show match is a real solid affair but DAMN I love that Tag Title match. A favorite of mine for sure.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

God that WM 23 MITB match was BRUTAL


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Ladder Match 2: Crash and burn review*

*Disc 2*​

*Match # 1: RVD vs Jeff Hardy- ladder match for the IC title(RAW July 2002)*

Admittedly, I’m an RVD mark, so I go in expecting awesomeness. But if these guys were given more time, then this could have been so amazing. But it was less than 10 minutes, but damn what a 10 minute match, a lot of cool spots. I love RVD and wish his MITB match was on this DVD, but its not . Anyways RVD would enter into a decent program with Benoit at the GOAT Summerslam in 2002. ***

*Match # 2: Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas vs Eddie Gurrero and Tajiri- ladder match (judgment day 2003)*

Just look at the contestants, I am expecting greatness going in. What a match! SO GOOD! I love all guys in this and IIRC this was a SHIT PPV besides this. So good, Tajiri does a great spot where he does a flip onto the ladder that knocks Benjamin and Haas off, so great. Eddie and Tajiri make an awesome team and I’m definitely gonna check out some more of their matches .Tajiri is one of my favorites and so is Eddie, never knew they teamed :mark: . Probably MOTN and the second best match of this DVD so far. **** ½*

*Match # 3: RVD vs Christian- IC title ladder match (RAW September 2003)*

Heard awesome things from this match so I’m pretty pumped going in. And HOLY FUCKIN SHIT! That was easily my favorite match from disc 2 so far! That was something else! I love RVD and from start to finish it was magical, I THINK this was his best match ever! So many good spots from both him and Christian! I think this is my third favorite ladder match of all time. I have Ramon/HBK at 1 and Jercho/Benoit at 2. The top 2 are at 5 stars, and so is this. *****

*Match # 4: Beth Phoenix vs Katie Lea- womens ladder match(OVW 2006)*

I didn’t know these matches existed but I like Beth Phoinex so what the hell :lol. Match starts out strong for a Divas match. I really liked what I saw here. A lot of back and forth action here. And a suprising amount of fighting with the ladder, Beth Phoenix would go on to stardom, and Katie Lea did nothing I guess. ** ½ 

*Match # 5: Mr. Kennedy vs. CM Punk vs. Edge vs. Finlay vs. Jeff Hardy vs. Matt Hardy vs. King Booker vs. Randy Orton- MITB ladder match(WrestleMania 23)*

I already loved this match, but never wrote anything down about it. This Match is BRUTAL. So many spots that look like they just flat out hurt. Jeff’s HUGE Swanton onto Edge. Randy Orton’s RKO from the latter, Celtic cross from the ladder, ECT. I think it’s my favorite MITB match of all time. If not, it’s the second best. Need to rewatch the WM 21 one but seriously cannot imagine a match being more brutal than that. Only downside to this match is that Mr.Kennnedy Never went on to do anything with that briefcase, and never really saw the spotlight again . Another cool thing is the WrestleMania debut of CM Punk. **** ¾*

*Match # 6: The Hardyz vs Shelton Benjamin and Charlie Haas-Ladder match(One night stand 2007)*

Another FUN tag team match involving freak athletes. It was kind of slow but these guys took some tough hits. Iove all these guys and they put on a decent showing. However, it really was nothing too special. Recommend it if you have some time to kill though. *** ¼ *

*Match # 7: Carlito vs Jeff hardy- ladder match for the IC title(RAW December 2007)*

Last match for disc 2; have mixed feelings going into the match. But this was the worst match of this disc. It just didn’t feel special. Carlito and Hardy really don’t have much chemistry. I like Carlito, I just really don’t think the ladder match suits him. He’s better in pinfall matches IMO. * ½*

Part 3 is 3 hours long. IDK if I can make it, it's already 2 AM :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, with the awesome Corporation storyline going on and the general state of the product being so good, I'm gonna say that I'm excited for Survivor Series this year and expect it to be the first good one in a while. Or, of course, it could just be another B-level show


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm looking forward to Battleground 

on No mercy 2008 HBK vs Y2J. 4 matches after this. I'm determined to finish this review. 

what did you guys think of my disc 2 review?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm looking forward to Battleground as well, but I think that Survivor Series is going to have a great build. I'm iffy on the October PPVs because...well, there shouldn't be 2 of them :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This year the SS match should ME. The corporation vs the alliance- WWE title on the line

Dean Ambrose,Seth Rollins,Roman Reigns, Randy Orton, and HHH vs Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler,Big Show, the Miz, and RVD


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Ladder Match 2: Crash and Burn review
*
*Disc 3*​
*Match# 1: Undertaker vs Edge- TLC match for the WHC(One Night Stand 2008)
*

Love this match, this feud from 2008 was so great. Unlike all the matches In disc 2, this match is long, over 30 minutes. It’s a fresh change from all the 15 minute matches in disc 2. The stip here is that if taker loses, he must leave SD “forever”. Mick Foley is on commentary with Cole(who is good) and they do a great job of making the match seem really dramatic. Hawkins and Ryder interfere and just beatdown taker. Then Taker puts them threw tables and their out for now. A cool spot in the match is when taker Puts him threw two tables. Then La famillia attacks undertaker and it’s 5 on 1 :lol. But somehow he takes them out too. Until hes put threw a table and Edge wins the title. Really good match, Undertaker and Edge have great chemistry and the feud would get even more awesome inside Hell In a cell at Summerslam. **** ½* 

*Match # 2: Shawn Michael’s vs Chris Jericho- ladder match for the WHC (No mercy 2008). 
*​
Some say this match is extremely overrated, some say it’s one of the best. I haven’t seen it in a while so it’s time for me to decide myself. I love both guys, and their WM 19 match is awesome, so I’m expecting good things. This match is okay. It’s a little slow in the beginning. And I’m starting ti realize why people think it is overrated. It’s decent, but nothing legendary whatsoever. For me, their WM 19 match trumps alI. This match was a good watch to see HBK back in a ladder match, but I think its way too overrated. Did like the ending though.*** ½
*
Match # 3: CM Punk vs. Kane vs. Mark Henry vs. MVP vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Kofi Kingston vs. Finlay vs. Christian- MITB ladder match(WM 25)*

Never seen this match, but Shelton Benjamin was awesome in the WM 24 match, so I expect another good showing here, as well as a good performance from Kofi Kingston. Some good spots in this match, but I think WM 24’s MITB was better. Hornswoggle has some good comedic spots such as jumping on like 5 people from the top rope. Kofi and Shelton show off their atleticisim and Mark Henry and Kane show their strength. CM punk wins of course, but this MITB might be the worst one at this point. *** ½*. 

*Match # 4: The Miz vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne vs. Ted DiBiase vs. John Morrison vs. Edge vs. Mark Henry- RAW MITB match(MITB 2010)*

Here marks the biggest mistake in MITB history. The Miz Did not need to win this. However, I have never seen this match. It looks promising. Ted Dibiase, John Morrison, evan Bourne, Y2J, and Edge will all be awesome. Orton, Miz, and Henry shall all be good too. Very crowded match, 8 people! This is actually a pretty good MITB match, despite the winner. There is such a conglomerate of talent that it makes the match extremely entertaining. Evan Bourne needs to get his ass back to WWE, he’s awesome in the midcard. IDK where he is but hes still employed. As I said earlier it’s not cool that the Miz wins but this is actually a good match. ****

*Match # 5: John Morrison vs Sheamus- # 1 contenders ladder match for the WWE title(TLC 2010)*

I have heard nothing but praise from this match, but I have never seen the match myself. I like both guys and it sure sounds awesome on paper. This match w good, I knew Morrison wins but at multiple moments I thought it was over when it wasn’t. too bad Morrison didn’t win the title, would have been an awesome champion. ****

*Match # 6: Christian vs Aberto Del Rio*

I really like this match, it is a very special moment when Christian wins the title. The crowd pops huge for it. It is also a very good back and forth match. I remember that when I was watching WWE at age 13 I was so excited that Christian won. Just because in the wake of Edge retiring it was awesome to see Christian walk away for the title, it had the big match feel and should have been the ME. **** ½ *

Awesome match set. Its 5 AM and I'm tired, hope you guys like it. Please comment and critique!


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Callamus said:


> *No Mercy 2008*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ok. So I finally watched this match, that being Jericho/Michaels Ladder from No Mercy. I've seen it like 4 times already, but it's probably been a couple years, so it was once again fresh.

I remember fucking loving it. I watched this live in my college dorm room with a friend, and we were actually going nuts on probably the only real successful streaming experience I've ever really had. But we watched it live, and it was great live. I recalled being breathtaken on numerous occasions, especially with the tug of war ending. I think relative to that times product, this was one of the best matches of the year. Of course, keep in mind I say that without having seen a lot of matches from that particular year. Just that I feel like it's quality alone automatically makes it a special match.

The reasons why I feel it is special are because 

First I thought they did some refreshing things in a ladder match. I thought that early and often they did things that weren't exactly commonplace in the genre. Things like the Jericho kick to the ladder as it was on the bottom rope (didn't it actually fuck HBK up?) It was just a bit more creative than your average ladder match. 

Also, the most of the spots were really brutal. It was just kind of like, Jesus Christ, they're just fucking each other up. You mention it here, Cal, they really tore each other up. 

Was Jericho smiling with a chipped tooth?

There was a lot of legitimate blood, and it was pretty fuckin brutal. 

I loved the ending. I understand and agree with Lance Cade didn't exactly add to the match. I agree he hindered, but I think it also got over Y2J as a despicable heel, so it's not too big of a detractor. I thought the ending of the match was innovative and risky and refreshing. I mean, that actually could have really gone wrong. I thought they sold it really fuckin well and that whole tug of war was actually orgasmic as I watched it live, and had aftershocks on the rewatch. It was great. 

I understand you guys had beef with the elbow drop. I think first of all Jericho was supposed to hold on to the ladder all along. It looked real fishy from the beginning as he pulled the ladder up, and definitely wasn't the bright spot of the match. But I think it is possible to believe that HBK wasn't able to quite get the elbow over the ladder as he intended to do so, and the ladder contact was accidental. Either way, I really don't care. It was a brutal spot and really fun to watch.

I consider it a real special match, and one of the best ladder matches I've ever seen.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

SD from last night, really deserves a watch:

Orton/Miz- **3/4
Ziggler/Shield- **
Bryan/Ryback- ***


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was legit surprised at Orton/Miz. Ever since that PB Triple Threat, Miz has been improving. Orton though still wrestles like a face.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cesaro/Zayn (2/3 Falls) ****

First time I wasn't high on this, but it got better on a rewatch. The 2nd fall made the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Second fall was glorious. Whole bunch of nifty callbacks and moments during the seven minute span.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some ratings for Cesaro/Ziggler from Superstars?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Obviously wonderful. Def go give it a watch asap.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Is it any better than the Main Event match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It has a clean finish, that was a plus. I'll probably say the Main Event match has it topped by a hair, but you can't go wrong with either one you may prefer. The neutralizer at the end is absurd.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Cesaro/Zayn (2/3 Falls) ****
> 
> First time I wasn't high on this, but it got better on a rewatch. The 2nd fall made the match.



That second fall was really, really awesome, but for me it's all about that ricockulous 3rd fall. They threw everything at each other, and that ending where Cesaro shows that he's the strongest human being in wrestling, just holding Zayn up like that before dropping him and hitting him with the very European uppercut. Ugh. That's just not fair, you have to be built like a brick shithouse to pull something like that. I get it, Zayns not a huge guy or anything, but he's not a rag doll either, he's a full grown ass man, and Cesaro just does a balancing act with him like he's a 2x4 being loading into a truck. Plus I love the dive through DDT, that's just such a cool ass move that ive never seen anyone else do but Zayn. And his baby face performance is just amazing as always. I still think Lesnar vs Punk is MotY, but that match isn't far behind, if at all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

does anybody have this ziggler/cesaro superstars ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

About to watch some early REY from his first three disc set;

Thoughts on his debut Vs Chavo Guerrero?

& I can't believe Cal doesn't like Henry Vs Hardy more, I thought that was pushing four stars when I last saw it, let alone having HHH-Hardy/Taker-Show/Jericho-HBK on the card. HHH-Hardy would be MOTN for me though I think, maybe, that ladder match might be the fourth best match on the card to me too .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I can't believe I watched that whole ladder match DVD in one sitting .....

Hopefully getting some dvd''s today


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It's alright man.

There was a huge storm on my birthday two years ago and I spent the day watching The Definitive Ric Flair Collection from start to finish. Those were the days before I became a detail freak when it came to my wrasslin'.

About to watch Angle-Rey. OH MY.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Why is everything so difficult? Local Barnes & Noble doesn't have Punk's DVD, so I was going to get it at Best Buy. However the Best Buy one says this:


> WWE: CM Punk - Best in the World - Fullscreen - DVD (Enhanced Widescreen for 16x9 TV) 2012
> 
> Screen Format Enhanced Widescreen for 16x9 TV


That's all they have. The normal one on amazon.com just says this:


> WWE: CM Punk - Best in the World (2012)
> 
> Format: Box set, Color, Full Screen, NTSC


So is it basically the same thing? Is the Best Buy one going to negatively affect me in any way?

I just measured my computer screen where I would probably be watching it on (for some reason I don't like to watch DVDs on my tv), and it's 13x8, if that matters.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> It's alright man.
> 
> There was a huge storm on my birthday two years ago and I spent the day watching The Definitive Ric Flair Collection from start to finish. Those were the days before I became a detail freak when it came to my wrasslin'.
> 
> About to watch Angle-Rey. OH MY.


I'm watching the Rey set right now too, I'm watching Rey vs Psychosis at Road Wild. Gotta love Rey and Psi, they are just off the hook together.


Also, I watched the entire 20 match Undertaker '"The Streak" DVD set in one sitting when we had a snow storm last year. Don't regret it one bit


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm at the Hardy 2003 match and at the moment, that Psicosis match is easily the worst bout of the set so far. The scary thing about that statement though; that match was still fucking good. This DVD just rocks and it rocks fucking hard. 

Actually come to think of it, the Worlds Collide tag doesn't exactly have me going crazy or anything. So that coupled with the Psicosis bouts would be the "worst" matches so far. Think the only two bouts so far under ***** for those of you who need a snowflake reference.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is backlash 2000 a good PPV? it's on youtube so I was gonna put it on

Hey did anyone notice that they have tons of PPVs on netflix that you put in your queue?


I just put the RR anthology at the top.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

One of the greatest ever.

Watch it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching it now


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I had netflix last year because of my roommate, he is a none wrestling fan, so you could only imagine when I flooded his "recently watched" with complete wrestling stuff :lol 

I don't have him as roommate anymore so i don't have it anymore, asshole


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna have to watch backlash when I get back from the beach. Looking forward to it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'm at the Hardy 2003 match and at the moment, that Psicosis match is easily the worst bout of the set so far. The scary thing about that statement though; that match was still fucking good. This DVD just rocks and it rocks fucking hard.
> 
> Actually come to think of it, the Worlds Collide tag doesn't exactly have me going crazy or anything. So that coupled with the Psicosis bouts would be the "worst" matches so far. Think the only two bouts so far under ***** for those of you who need a snowflake reference.


I have the worlds collide as the only match I would say doesn't deliver the high expectations you get from a Rey match, Psicosis at Road Wild wasn't like amazing or anything but it was still pretty good, it seems like a match they would have at Nitro instead of a big PPV.

Man that Blitzkrieg match is some sick shit, that guy looks goofy as hell but man they really tore it up there. This Rey set is in strong contention for tying Foleys Greatest Hits and Misses: Hardcore Bonus as my favorite set ever. So much Eddie and Rey goodness, and that match with Kurt at SS is :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Is backlash 2000 a good PPV? it's on youtube so I was gonna put it on
> 
> Hey did anyone notice that they have tons of PPVs on netflix that you put in your queue?
> 
> ...


Wait, they have entire PPVs on Netflix? I've never know this gloriousness.



LilOlMe said:


> Why is everything so difficult? Local Barnes & Noble doesn't have Punk's DVD, so I was going to get it at Best Buy. However the Best Buy one says this:
> 
> 
> That's all they have. The normal one on amazon.com just says this:
> ...


I'm pretty sure they're both the same thing. HD matches post-2007 will be full screen and anything before that will be 4:3 with sidebars with some random Punk design.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker's string of matches in April 2008 is pretty absurd. vs Kane, vs Festus, vs Batista x2 plus vs Edge @ Backlash _(which I'm about to revisit and iirc it owns)_ & w/Kane vs Morrison & Miz from ECW. 2008 was soooo Undertaker's year. Nearly every match he's been in has been good & I'm heading onto May. So far there are only two matches I haven't liked: vs Big Daddy V 2/15 & the eventual TLC match vs Edge.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imma rewatch Triple H vs himself @ Royal Rumble '03 for the hilarity of it.

That's the reason his performance doesn't get shit on tbh :HHH2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Wait, they have entire PPVs on Netflix? I've never know this gloriousness.
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure they're both the same thing. HD matches post-2007 will be full screen and anything before that will be 4:3 with sidebars with some random Punk design.


Not instant, but I guess you can get them in the mail.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, PPVs only come in the mail. Nothing on the instant streaming except for sets. Which is still in a pretty copious supply.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh... got my hopes up for nothin.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I just wished they had Judgment Day 2008 on there. Still have never seen that full PPV. It better be online. I know Cena vs JBL is; which is how I saw it some months ago. Good match. Hoping the rest is just as good, but I know that main event & Hardy/MVP will be trash. _(and yeah, I'm very excited for Michaels vs Jericho b/c of all the praise it gets)_


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just bought Great American Bash 2008. I have heard the show is not all that but I am very interested to see Edge v Triple H and CM Punk v Batista. Two matches that I believe have only happened once on PPV. So the fact they are on the same PPV made me want to buy it. Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho is also on the card and I heard they had a great series of matches in 08. John Cena v JBL interests me also so I am looking forward to watching this show when it arrives.

Thoughts on the show and whether it is underrated or not?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Just bought Great American Bash 2008. I have heard the show is not all that but I am very interested to see Edge v Triple H and CM Punk v Batista. Two matches that I believe have only happened once on PPV. So the fact they are on the same PPV made me want to buy it. Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho is also on the card and I heard they had a great series of matches in 08. John Cena v JBL interests me also so I am looking forward to watching this show when it arrives.
> 
> Thoughts on the show and whether it is underrated or not?



Sorry to rain on your parade but, Edge vs Triple H blows, Punker gets a decent match out of Batista but its nothing to write home about, and Michaels vs Jericho is mediocre at best (IMO).

So yea, I'd say no bueno but that's just me everyone has their own likes and dislikes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, HHH/Steiner RR '03 is as hilarious as ever :lmao

Now I'm in for Brock/Show from the same event. Iirc it was decent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Just bought Great American Bash 2008. I have heard the show is not all that but I am very interested to see Edge v Triple H and CM Punk v Batista. Two matches that I believe have only happened once on PPV. So the fact they are on the same PPV made me want to buy it. Shawn Michaels v Chris Jericho is also on the card and I heard they had a great series of matches in 08. John Cena v JBL interests me also so I am looking forward to watching this show when it arrives.
> 
> Thoughts on the show and whether it is underrated or not?


Jericho vs Michaels sucks. Edge vs Triple H is actually much more tolerable than I thought - not very good or anything, but enjoyable. Ended up liking it to my surprise - & Punker vs Batista is really quite good despite the lackluster finish. Cena vs JBL is beyond words. So awesome.

Opening tag match is fun & Hardy vs Shelton is good. I'd actually say its a bit of an underrated show. Nothing GREAT, but it's a fun watch for the majority. If only Jericho vs Michaels worked it wouldn't have a flaw behind it. b/c ECW & Divas Championship matches weren't long enough to drag it down. Henry vs Dreamer not being good was a letdown too. Usually Henry squashing him works. Oh well.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm pretty sure they're both the same thing. HD matches post-2007 will be full screen and anything before that will be 4:3 with sidebars with some random Punk design.


Thanks. I've decided to just order it from Barnes & Noble. They just have a normal widescreen DVD, which is great.


Which one of these other cheap DVDS should I get? I have a gift card, so the price range for these are perfect for using the rest of my gift card, after the Punk DVD.


*WWE: Edge - A Decade of Decadence*



Spoiler: Set list:



DISC ONE

A Boy and his Dream

Breakdown September 27, 1998
Edge vs. Owen Hart

Terri Invitational Tournament- Ladder Match
New Brood vs. Edge & Christian
No Mercy October 17, 1999

8 Pounds of Gold

Triangle Ladder Match for the World Tag Team Championship
Dudley Boyz vs. Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian
WrestleMania April 2, 2000

WWE Intercontinental Championship: Lance Storm vs. Edge
SummerSlam August 19, 2001

Championship Unification Match: IC vs. US - Edge vs. Test
Survivor Series November 18, 2001

Singles Superstar

Edge vs. Mr. Perfect
Sunday Night Heat March 3, 2002

Hair vs. Hair Match: Kurt Angle vs. Edge
Judgment Day May 19, 2002

Steel Cage Match: Kurt Angle vs. Edge
SmackDown! May 30, 2002

World Tag Team Championship: Billy & Chuck vs. Edge & Hollywood Hulk Hogan
SmackDown! July 4, 2002

Edge vs. Eddie Guerrero - Unforgiven September 22, 2002

Extras

* The Totally Awesome Best of Edge & Christian

DISC TWO

Injury - Return!

WWE Intercontinental Championship: Randy Orton vs. Edge
Vengeance July 11, 2004

Street Fight: Shawn Michaels vs. Edge
RAW February 28, 2005

Gold Rush Tournament Final: Kane vs. Edge
RAW May 16, 2005

Love Triangle

Street Fight: Matt Hardy vs. Edge
RAW August 29, 2005

WWE Championship: John Cena vs. Edge
New Year's Revolution January 8, 2006

Overrated

Hardcore Match: Mick Foley vs. Edge
WrestleMania 22 April 2, 2006

6- Person Tag Team Match: Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah vs. Mick Foley, Edge & Lita
ECW: One Night Stand June 11, 2006

Triple Threat Match for the WWE Championship: Rob Van Dam vs. John Cena vs. Edge
RAW July 3, 2006

Extras

*Adam Copeland vs. Christian (WWF tryout)
Cornwall, ON November 10, 1997
Commentary By: Matt Striker & Edge

* Intercontinental Championship: Jeff Jarrett vs. Edge (Never before seen Edge surprise- even to him - IC title win)
Toronto, ON July 24, 1999
Commentary By: Matt Striker & Edge

DISC THREE

"I Equal Ratings!"

WWE Championship: Edge vs. John Cena
SummerSlam August 20, 2006

I Persevered

Money in the Bank Qualifying Match: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge
RAW February 19, 2007

Randy Orton vs. Edge
RAW April 30, 2007

Money in the Bank - Again!

World Heavyweight Championship Match: Undertaker vs. Edge
SmackDown! May 11, 2007

Last Chance World Heavyweight Championship: Edge vs. Batista
Vengeance June 24, 2007

World Heavyweight Championship: Edge vs. Rey Mysterio
Royal Rumble January 27, 2008

My Speciality

Tables, Ladders & Chairs Match For the Vacant World Heavyweight Championship: Undertaker vs. Edge
One Night Stand June 1, 2008

Hell in a Cell: Undertaker vs. Edge
SummerSlam August 17, 2008



^That's a hellavu lot! That's why I'm thinking about going with that, though Edge hasn't really impressed me in most of the random matches that I've seen that include him. Like I said, though, the matches were completely random and weren't really about him. A lot of these matches here intrigue me.



Or:

*WWE From the Vault - Shawn Michaels (2003)*:



Spoiler: Set List:



For the first time ever, Shawn Michaels talks about the matches that helped define his illustrious career and set the standard for others to follow. Seven of the matches that made him the "Showstopper" are presented in their entirety in this one-of-a- kind compilation:

- AWA Tag Team Championship vs. Buddy Rose & Doug Sommers (1986)
- Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match vs. Razor Ramon at WrestleMania X
- Iron Man Match vs. Bret Hart at WrestleMania XII
- No-Holds-Barred Match vs. Big Daddy Cool Diesel
- WWE Championship Match vs. Mankind
- Hell in a Cell vs. Undertaker
- Shawn`s comeback Non-Sanctioned Match vs. Triple H at SummerSlam 2002

DVD Extras:
Three hours of bonus footage, including promos, interviews, a photo gallery and alternate commentary by Shawn Michaels and Kevin Nash on their now-classic No-Holds-Barred Match.

As you can see this is a great chance to see some of HBK's greatest matches, matches that truly show why Shawn Michaels is one of the best wrestlers of all time.



Michaels is one of my favorites, and I haven't seen most of these matches since I was youngin', so I was thinking of going with that one.


Or:
*WWE: The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect (2008)*



Spoiler: Set list



Here is the match listing for the upcoming WWE Mr. Perfect DVD "The Life and Times of Mr. Perfect" that is slated to be released in September:

# Disc 1:

- Documentary:
* Perfection
* Twin City Origins
* Building a Path
* AWA
* Mr. Perfect
* Living up to His Name
* Intercontinental Champion
* The Prankster
* Commentator
* WCW
* Return to the WWE
* A Sudden Tragedy
* Hall of Fame
* The Perfect Legacy Lives On

* "Rap is Crap" Music Video

- Matches:

* Curt Hennig vs. Eddie Gilbert
Madison Square Garden (21/11/82)

* Curt Hennig & Scott Hall vs. Steve Regal & Jimmy Garvin
AWA Championship Wrestling (26/11/85)

* Mr. Perfect Hall of Fame Induction
WWE Hall of Fame (31/03/07)

- Vignettes

* Billiards October 1, 1988
* Golf - Perfect Putt October 1, 1988
* Darts October 8, 1988
* Bowling October 8, 1988
* Chess October 15, 1988
* Basketball October 15, 1988
* Ping Pong October 28, 1989
* Diving November 4, 1989
* Golf - Perfect Drive November 4, 1989
* Horseshoes November 24, 1989
* Baseball with Wade Boggs December 26, 1992
* Football - Perfect Passer with Steve Jordan February 13, 1993
* Basketball with Felton Spencer February 27, 1993
* Hockey with Mike Modano March 13, 1993
* Stories
* Curt Loved Karaoke
* Lifestyles of Mr. Perfect

# Disc 2

* 60-Minute Time Limit AWA World Heavyweight Championship Match
Curt Hennig vs. Nick Bockwinkel
AWA Championship Wrestling (15/11/86)

* Curt Hennig vs. Terry Taylor
Commentary By: Michael Cole & Mick Foley
WrestleFest (31/07/88 )

* Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart
Madison Square Garden (24/04/89)

* WWE Championship Match
Mr. Perfect vs. Hulk Hogan
Madison Square Garden (15/01/90)

* WWE Intercontinental Championship Match with Special Referee Roddy Piper
Mr. Perfect vs. The Texas Tornado
Madison Square Garden (24/11/90)

* WWE Intercontinental Championship Match
Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect
SummerSlam (26/08/91)

* WWE Intercontinental Championship Match
Mr. Perfect vs. Shawn Michaels
SummerSlam (30/08/93)

* Curt Hennig vs. Bret Hart
Uncensored (15/03/98)



Ditto what I said about Michaels above. 

The match listing is a bit lackluster, but I wonder if the documentary section makes up for it.


And of course there's:

*Bret Hart - The Best There Is, The Best There Was, The Best There Ever Will Be*



Spoiler: Set list:



Disc #1 -- Bret Hart: Hitman - Main Program, Interivew Moments, Tribute Videos & Matches
4. Early Years [8:09]
5. Stampede Wrestling [16:07]
6. Coming to WWE [5:02]
7. Hart Foundation [6:26]
8. Intercontinental Champion [9:36]
9. WWE Champion [10:30]
10. International Star [5:23]
11. Hart Family Feud [5:29]
12. Iron Man Match [8:07]
13. Stone Cold Steve Austin [7:38]
14. U.S.A. vs. Canada [11:30]
15. Survivor Series 1997 [9:34]
16. WCW [5:19]
17. The Death of Owen Hart [6:08]
18. Problems in WCW [2:48]
20. Living It Up [3:13]

Disc #1 -- Bret Hart: Hitman - Main Program, Interivew Moments, Tribute Videos & Matches
Play Main Program
Chapters
Extras
Bret Hart Introduces the DVD Extras
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Bret Talks About the Origin of the Name "The Dungeon"
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Bret Talks About Being Away From Family on Halloween
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Bret Talks About How Well the Hart Foundation Got Along
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Bret Talks About Learning the Sharpshooter
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Bret Tells Story About Owen Hart Crank-Calling Stu Hart
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Family Tree
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Learning the Ropes
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Sunglasses
Bret Hart Interview Moments: Being a Villain
Tribute Videos: Dean Hart Tribute Video
Tribute Videos: Tribute to Bret Hart's Wrestling Colleagues - Who Have Passed Away
Matches: Madison Square Garden 7/13/85 - Hart Foundation vs. British Bulldogs
Matches: Madison Square Garden 2/17/86 - Hart Foundation vs. Killer Bees
Disc #2 -- Bret Hart: Hitman - Extras
Play All
Extras Menu
Matches: Boston Garden 3/8/86 - Bret Hart vs. Ricky Steamboat
Matches: Odessa, TX 3/8/89 - Bret Hart vs. Ted DiBiase
Matches: Saturday Night's Main Event 4/28/90 - Hart Foundation vs. Rockers
Matches: WWE World Tag Team Championship Match - Wrestlemania VII 3/24/91 Hart Foundating vs. Nasty Boys
Matches: WWE Intercontinental Championship Match - Summerslam 1991 8/26/91 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect
Matches: WWE Intercontinental Championship Match - Summerslam 1992 8/29/92 Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog
Matches: Barcelona, Spain 4/24/93 Bret Hart vs. Bam Bam Bigelow
Matches: King of the Ring 1993 Semi-Final Match 6/13/93 Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect
Matches: Wrestlemania X 3/20/94 Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
Disc #3 -- Bret Hart: Hitman - Extras
Play All
Extras Menu
Matches: WWE Championship Match - White Plains, NY 9/29/94 Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart
Matches: In Your House 5/14/95 Bret Hart vs. Hakushi
Matches: WWE Championship Match - Survivor Series 11/19/95 Bret Hart vs. Diesel
Matches: WWE Championship Match - In Your House 12/17/95 Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog
 Matches: Submission Match - Wrestlemania 13 3/23/97 Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin
Matches: WWE Championship Match - One Night Only 9/20/97 Bret Hart vs. Undertaker
Matches: Owen Hart Tribute Match - WCW Monday Nitro 10/4/99 Bret Hart vs. Chris Benoit



I've already seen all there is to see on that, but owning that for less than $8 is enticing. But if one of the other DVDs are worth it, I think I'd rather go with one of those, since I haven't seen those before.

Curious to hear opinions on those who have seen one (or all) of the first three.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I see we are talking about this ppv Again :lol.

How's survivor series 2008? Anything special?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> I see we are talking about this ppv Again :lol.
> 
> How's survivor series 2008? Anything special?


Cena/Jericho is fucking awesome, and then Team Batista/Team Orton and Team Shawn/Team JBL are fun. Rest blows, even Taker/Show.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Just got done watching Savage/Bret Hart at SNME in Nov 1987. I remember this like yesterday. I was in first grade and my parents use to let me stay up late and watch SNME when it was on. It was such a big deal back then. I miss it so much it was lots of fun. This match was a classic. An incredible babyface performance from Savage fighting off not only Bret but the Anvil and Jimmy Hart. So great to see two of the biggest legends in wrestling against each other. Wish this had happened at WM 9 or 10. 



HayleySabin said:


> I just wished they had Judgment Day 2008 on there. Still have never seen that full PPV. It better be online. I know Cena vs JBL is; which is how I saw it some months ago. Good match. Hoping the rest is just as good, but I know that main event & Hardy/MVP will be trash. _(and yeah, I'm very excited for Michaels vs Jericho b/c of all the praise it gets)_


Solid PPV. I could have gone to this but didn't. It was right down the road from me. I own it. It's worth the $6-7 on amazon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Cena/Jericho is fucking awesome, and then Team Batista/Team Orton and Team Shawn/Team JBL are fun. Rest blows, even Taker/Show.


^^^This. I could outright say Cena vs Jericho is my favorite match from WWE in 2008. And firmly mean it.

---------------

Backlash 2008 off and running. Hardy vs MVP is just as terrible as I remember. They looked so lost for that entire span. Ugh. Annoys me more now since on 4/4 those two beat the snot out of each other and it was a GOOD match. They go on PPV and have no idea what to do. Crapppp. My favorite part is the hilarious pause Matt takes in his promo before telling MVP he's better than him. It's like he wanted to mount the camera with his rape eyes. Oh wrestlecrap.

Kane vs Chavo time. I remember digging this. Here we go x2.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Behold the GOAT spot:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Behold the GOAT spot:



Wtf is that? Is that from their rumble match?


Nothing will ever top this, this is the GOAT spot

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ1GlGoNBEU&feature=related


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb Kane vs Chavo is still good. Match was worked pretty smart the entire way including having Bam Neely actually help for a brief portion. lol @ Bam Neely though. Who was more useless than this guy?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane/Chavo WM 24 is probably Chavo's best match ever 8*D.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> :hb Kane vs Chavo is still good. Match was worked pretty smart the entire way including having Bam Neely actually help for a brief portion. lol @ Bam Neely though. Who was more useless than this guy?


Tony Atlas :lol


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)




----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished Tajiri vs Rey on Smackdown from 1/1/04. What an awesome little match, totally unknown to me until I got the Rey set. Everything flows so well, and this is peak Rey Mysterio action with Tajiri doing everything in his power to keep him down. The kicks are just vicious, and the timing could NOT have been better. Great, great showing by these two. I'd reccomend this to anyone like me who didn't follow the E back in 2004.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Behold the GOAT spot:


I remember seeing Steiner attempt a flying axe handle off the apron to Test, but either completely missing or falling off. Can't find it on YouTube though :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Kane/Chavo WM 24 is probably Chavo's best match ever 8*D.


8*D

Big Show vs Great Khali is still good too. And Khali did the bulk of the offense while Show bumped well for him. It's scary how many matches from Khali I've liked in 2008 while he was a heel. Eh, maybe not. I like giants. It only proves how truly awful he is nowadays...

Oh goodie, now it is Michaels vs Batista. I remember this being very bleh. Bad enough the reason behind the program is so asinine :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> :hb Kane vs Chavo is still good. Match was worked pretty smart the entire way including having Bam Neely actually help for a brief portion. lol @ Bam Neely though. *Who was more useless than this guy?*


Luther Reigns :kurt

I think I just found out why they say Angle is a God: his matches are all fucking amazing when you watch them from a "Just have fun" perspective. Which explains why people jizz over the Benoit matches. Goddamn.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lol

Steiner's last WWE run was so hilarious. Best thing he did was probably that goofy ass debate with Nowinski.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

YES!!! Best moment ever :lmao

Night of Champions looks to be a decent in-ring show based on how the card's shaping up. I'm guessing the RAW and SD in Canada during the go-home week are really gonna get me hyped for the show :mark:


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

I wish WWE would release a Dudley Boyz dvd one day. My favourite tag team ever. So entertaining to watch and underrated.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> :lol
> 
> Steiner's last WWE run was so hilarious. Best thing he did was probably that goofy ass debate with Nowinski.


:lmao 

That Bad Blood '03 iirc. I recall calling him Big Botch'a Bump after that :

But this is best thing he ever did (well, sort of):






***** promo.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit - Triple Threat Match - WWE Smackdown: 9/26/02: ***3/4*

This was a really fun triple threat match. Rey walks into the match as the hometown hero since the show took place in San Diego. The match told a really good story on how Benoit and Angle hadn't settled their feud at Unforgiven and paid no attention to Mysterio. Benoit and Angle did a great job at trolling the crowd by knocking Rey out of the ring whenever he tried to insert himself in the match. Rey eventually gets into the match and provides some exciting offense, but then he gets thrown out of the ring. Benoit and Angle tried to settle their feud by going one-on-one with some fun back and forth action. Rey would again try to enter the match by trying to steal a victory from Angle after Angle did the Angle Slam on Benoit. There were some cool spots such as Angle throwing Rey out of the ring with Rey landing on Benoit and the double 619. Chris gets Angle in the Crossface and Rey goes for a springboard leg drop on Benoit and tried to get the pin, but he kicked out. Kurt attempts the Angle Slam on Rey, Rey counters , but gets clotheslined. The ending was exciting when Rey comes back with a missile dropkick to Angle, pushing him towards Benoit who in turn throws him out, and Rey executes a springboard West Coast Pop to get a victory. Just a fun, entertaining triple threat that lasted about 8 minutes. Good stuff.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rey mysterio and Edge vs Tajiri and Brock lesner. 10/10/02 SD. 

Really good 8 minute match. Never knew these guys tagged so it was pretty good for it being short. *** 1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love that Brock & Tajiri tag match.

-------------

Alright cool, Michaels vs Batista was actually more solid than I remember. A farcry from their Armageddon '03 match, which I think is really good, but I ended up liking this on the second go around. However I have a few minor gripes. First off is in the build Batista felt like the heel in the program. He was the irrational goof who was giving Shawn fits the entire time. Yet the match was worked with Michaels on the offensive for 99% of the match building up Batista like the come from behind babyface. Didn't expect that with how the story of the program was being built. Second was mostly dealing with how Batista as a babyface bothered me b/c the guy is huge. He should be decimating people and dominating. Much like he did in the Armageddon '03 match. Instead his large size doesn't even come into play and it throws me off. He doesn't make a bad face, just I guess not playing to his strengths and when the commentary puts over his power, then you're doing something wrong when that doesn't even come into play. So commentary can be at fault here. Still ended up liking the match, so screw it I guess. Show is off to a nice half way point. Only one bad match.

Divas time. Eh, what the hell. Heels win & I want to see Natalya.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Divas time. Eh, what the hell. Heels win & I want to see Natalya.



Makes 2 of us! Oh lord.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Wtf is that? Is that from their rumble match?
> 
> 
> Nothing will ever top this, this is the GOAT spot
> ...


:lol

One of the top comments made me LOL. 'this move could end the streak!'

At first glance it's pretty much a nothing comment that I would normally ignore, but then I envisioned a guy like Punk or Cena doing that move to Undertaker in front of an electric crowd at WM30. 

:cole3 TURNBUCKLE REPEATEDLY TO THE *SKULL*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Luther Reigns :kurt
> 
> I think I just found out why they say Angle is a God: his matches are all fucking amazing when you watch them from a "Just have fun" perspective. Which explains why people jizz over the Benoit matches. Goddamn.



First things first, Angle is NOT God, Foley is God. Always has been always will be.

Secondly. You are absolutely right, as I've said many many times,Kurt Angle matches are the "Hollywood action flicks" of wrestling. So what if it Expendables 2 makes absolutely zero fucking sense? It's a very very entertaining movie. That's how I view Benoit and Angle matches. The work rate those two have is just so over the top amazing that its impossible for me to not enjoy myself when watching them go at it. That Cage match they had on Raw is a perfect example of it. It's a glorified action packed back and forth spot fest, and it's also very entertaining, atleast to me.

Not every match can be "The Godfather" or "Casablanca" from a story telling standpoint. Sometimes I just want non sensical car chases and shit to blow up.

I just watched Cena vs Jericho from SVS08' after you brought it up. What a brilliant match, those two are always money in the ring together. I like the psychology of attacking Cena's neck and throat after surgery, and all the counters where executed to perfection. Cena has a great baby face performance here, and his selling was spot on.

I still have Edge vs Taker ahead of it as my Match of the Year for 2008. I don't think that match gets enough credit around here, that was just a phenomenal match it's in my personal Top 5 for Streak matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Makes 2 of us! Oh lord.


It was worth it. Tolerable filler. Now it's back on track with Undertaker vs Edge. Hell yes.

And I don't fully agree with that Angle claim, yet there is an exception. I feel like UGH @ another Angle conversation, however I'm only replying b/c that's how I feel about the cage match vs Benoit. I watch it with my brain turned off and enjoy the outlandish spots both dudes take. Their other matches can fuck off but at least one is tolerable for spotty reasons. I'll never watch that shit from Unforgiven '02 ever again. Jesus.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I actually never saw Total Divas until the girl I'm dating (also a rasslin fan) was watching it the other day. I watched and Natty just blew me away. So gorgeous IMHO. Seems down to earth as fuck too. I mean the Bellas are nice to look at but they seem like total snobs.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It was worth it. Tolerable filler. Now it's back on track with Undertaker vs Edge. Hell yes.
> 
> And I don't fully agree with that Angle claim, yet there is an exception. I feel like UGH @ another Angle conversation, however I'm only replying b/c that's how I feel about the cage match vs Benoit. I watch it with my brain turned off and enjoy the outlandish spots both dudes take. Their other matches can fuck off but at least one is tolerable for spotty reasons. I'll never watch that shit from Unforgiven '02 ever again. Jesus.


Never seen Unforgiven, just the Raw cage match, Royal Rumble, and a few from Smackdown. With my brain shut off I fully enjoyed all of them, to be honest.

What are you're guys favorite Edge matches? I need to watch some more of that dude he could be really great at times. My favorites are

1. Vs Undertaker at Mania/HiaC at SS
2. Vs Eddie No DQ on Smackdown
3. Vs Jericho at Mania
4. Vs Matt Hardy Street Fight
5. With Rey Survivor Series Tag against Benoit/Angle and Los Guerreros

**not including all the great stuff he did as part of Edge and Christian***


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Foley is Jesus. Savage is God. That is all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit vs Angle in the cage is an awesome match. I don't care what anyone says, that match rules!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That mania 24 match was gold. **** 3/4*

I like all of edges matches with undertaker. Really need to rewatch hiac


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Pegasus vs Angle in the cage is an awesome match. I don't care what anyone says, that match rules!


Who doesn't like that match? Yeah it is effin great. I really want the Pegasus dvd set but it's hard to find at a good price. Cheapest I have seen it (used) is like $20. I have a hard time dropping $20 on that but that is just me.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

I am a big fan of the Undertaker vs Edge match from Backlash 2008. Really fun match that and so easy to sit through.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Edge/Taker is my third favorite streak matches behind his 2 with HBK

1. Vs HBK WM 25 
2. Vs HBK WM 26
3. Vs Edge WM 24
4. Vs HHH WM 27 ( dat selling) 
5. Vs Kane WM 14 (so fucking underrated)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's what my gf (who's a Benoit mark) tells me: Angle/Benoit Cage is a DUD, but in a SPOTZ mentality, it's awesome stuff. Same case could be made for matches like Angle/Shane for eg.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Edge/Taker is my third favorite streak matches behind his 2 with HBK
> 
> 1. Vs HBK WM 25
> 2. Vs HBK WM 26
> ...



So glad someone else loves Taker/HHH WM 27. I love that match. It's better than their WM 28 match IMHO and I agree the Kane match at WM 14 was really good. Kane came out of that looking great. 

Edge v Taker at Mania was great too. I too love their matches. 

Some of my fave Taker mania matches....

WM 25 v HBK
WM 26 v HBK
WM 27 v HHH
WM 18 v Flair
WM 17 v HHH
WM 24 v Edge
WM 14 v Kane
WM 28 v HHH
WM 29 v Punk (I have only watched it twice and this could make a move up the list)
WM 23 v Batista


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh no not that "rank your top 10 streak matches" discussion incoming

how are those batista/hbk matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, while I still like Undertaker vs Edge at the end of the day, it isn't nearly as strong as I remembered. Most of that has to do b/c I thought Edge was really poor in it. This was a total Undertaker carry job. I like Edge, always have & always will, but I have to say it: his 2008 is pretty lame up to this point. Not nearly as many matches have been worth seeing and some, like this match, weren't even good b/c of him. He did have a really fun squash vs Funaki on TV. I have to give that match a plug.

For the other topic, Edge's best matches were vs Matt Hardy in 2005. I'm also big on his work vs RVD most of the time. Thought they had some swell chemistry. Orton too despite them having a few stinkers. When they were on, they were ON.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> So glad someone else loves Taker/HHH WM 27. I love that match. It's better than their WM 28 match IMHO and I agree the Kane match at WM 14 was really good. Kane came out of that looking great.
> 
> Edge v Taker at Mania was great too. I too love their matches.
> 
> ...




Oh it definitely was better than their HIAC match. Lol @ the dx finisher.... Yeah like they'd really end the streak like that. Every time I watch that cell match my rating goes down ... And with Kane let's face it, most of their matches were so disappointing. Their WM 14 was so unpredictable and perfect IMO. 

***3/4 for they're WM 28 match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton and Edge were truly on in 2004 with their matches. The next time they wrestled a singles match was in 2007 and that one might be their best together. Sucks that the chemistry kind of faded by 2010 when they faced off again - although the triple threat with Jericho is kick ass.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This is an unpopular opinion but I'm not a huge fan of the streak. I mean it's kind of cool and all but I just don't mark out for it like most people. I kind of wish it would end or Taker would retire. Other than Taker/Brock and Taker/Cena what else can they do?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really hope this four way match doesn't bore me again. Orton vs Trips have no chemistry unless it's a last man standing. Not gonna lie, I'm not really wanting to watch it. Eh, I'll power through for the project's sake. Anything to get closer to that May Smackdown that had the awesome Morrison vs Batista match...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My gf reminded me of that Edge/Orton/Shawn Triple Threat, that is very good imo. _God I love her_ :

They do have nice chemistry. But Jesus, that Edge/Orton OTL '10 match though... *throws up*.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> This is an unpopular opinion but I'm not a huge fan of the streak. I mean it's kind of cool and all but I just don't mark out for it like most people. I kind of wish it would end or Taker would retire. Other than Taker/Brock and Taker/Cena what else can they do?




Nothing. That SHOULD be his only two opponents and then call it quits.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm probably one of the few who thinks that the Taker/Edge HIAC is better than the WM24 match


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I'm probably one of the few who thinks that the Taker/Edge HIAC is better than the WM24 match


I like it better too.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

DOPESICK REVIEWS RAW IS WAR

September 29th 1997 - Albany, NY
​
WE ARE IN NEW YOIK CITYYYYYYY!

We recap last week where Austin stunned the living HAYEELLLL out of the chairman of the board Vince McMahon.

Vince is in the ring and he brings out Shawn Michaels, who is with Triple H, Chyna and Rude. This is before they were called D-Generation X of course. JR and King comment how Michaels almost got lynched in the UK when he defeated Bulldog at One Night Only to become European Champion. Michaels is at the peak of his dickish heel powers here, continuing to act like a child sticking his pinky finger in Vince's ear and other such shenanigans. Triple H does the same like the sycophantic weasel that he is. They hype the upcoming Cell match until Commissioner Slaughter comes out, and orders Triple H to order the Undertaker tonight. Yeeehaw! The Hart Foundation then walk out and Bret gets on the mic. 'You're gonna pay for these crimes...tonight!' Underwhelming. Michaels and HHH feign fear in the ring, no-selling the hell out of the threats. King: 'They're the Beavis and Butthead of the World Wrestling Federation!'

Still to come: Bulldog vs. Vader! Austin is here! Why wouldn't he be?

Recap of the excellent One Night Only PPV from Birmingham, England. Stills of the heated Bulldog and HBK match are shown as mentioned earlier. Seriously, I haven't seen heat like this in many, many years. SOOOO MUCH trash is thrown in the ring. I remember watching this as a fourteen year old kid and wanting Michaels to get KILLED. Of course he wasn't playing a character, but pretty much himself.

BRITISH BULLDOG vs. VADER
Bulldog limps out selling his knee injury. This is the beginning of Vader's babyface push, which unfortunately also coincided with his enormous slump down the card. He would continue to descend until his release one year later. Such a waste. Bulldog is back to being the heel after his UK exploits, but still pulls off the ring savvy and strength to emerge as a favourite. Bulldog suplexes Vader onto the steel guard rail. Vince hypes the upcoming flag match at Badd Blood between Vader/Patriot vs. Bret/Bulldog. Vader splashes Bulldog from second rope, but is then jumped by Bret, Owen and Neidhart. They deliver a beating to the babyface behemoth. Patriot runs out to attempt to make the save, but is also beaten down. They focus on the gimmick by beating them down with the Canadian flags, and then covering their limp bodies in the middle of the ring.

UP NEXT: Ahmed Johnson vs. Faarooq in IC Title Tourney Semi Final action! Whew!

Another shot of the doors leading to the arena. Still no Austin.

They air a candid interview with Faarooq detailing his football career and past wrestling accomplishments. They also did interviews with Dustin Runnels and more famously, Mick Foley. These were fantastic and they should do the same for the current guys on the roster. Really get a chance to know the guy underneath the character. The interview seems to be carried in a non-kayfabe light, but Faarooq/Simmons always manages to stay in character.

AHMED JOHNSON (w/ Legion Of Doom and Ken Shamrock) vs. FAAROOQ (w/ Kama Mustafa, Rocky Miavia and D-Lo Brown) in IC Title Tournament Semi Final
Ahmed brings out some buddies for much needed back up. Shamrock and LOD would be listed to face the Nation at the upcoming Badd Blood PPV, but Shamrock wouldn't be able to make it. You would've thought they could replace Shamrock with Ahmed, but instead they didn't, making it a 2 on 3 match. Why? Because Ahmed really was awful at this stage. Ahmed has a thick bandage over his injured hand, which Faarooq focuses on. Ahmed waylays Faarooq with the steel steps and then wallops the ref, getting himself disqualified the stupid idiot. Then a mass brawl breaks out in the ring between all eight men. Ahmed: 'YOOOOOUUURRR. GOOOAANN. DAAAHHHHOOOWWNNN!'

Video package of the upcoming Cell match in six days. Highlighting how brutal and sadistic this kind of a match is. They weren't lying.

Brian Pillman's XXX files. Video is shown of Pillman lying in a (hotel?) bed with Marlena, Goldust's main squeeze. Pillman: 'Whoo I gotta tell ya...I'm beat! I'm bushed!' Pillman is set to face Dude Love at the upcoming PPV, but it wouldn't happen sadly because of his death. This is indeed the last time we ever saw Pillman on TV. Pillman wants Goldust to be handcuffed to the ring at the PPV, and asks him to bring his own handcuffs, because his are pretty busy. Oo-er!

DUDE LOVE comes out to provide some commentary for the next match.

GOLDUST vs. THE SULTAN (w/ The Iron Sheik)
Goldust is all serious bizness because he isn't wearing the wig and the coat. His facepaint is also different with only half his face painted in the form of a skull. Looked really cool! The Sultan is of course the man soon to be known as RIKISHI. These were his last few days under the gimmick. Sheik interjects whenever he can, but Goldust manages to eek out the win over the hapless jobber. 

THE WARZONE has just started, and here comes STOOOOOOOONE COOOOOOOOLD STEEEEEEEEVE AUSSSSSSTIN to a MASSIVE pop. He orders Vince McMahon to get in the ring, teasing some sort of repeat of last weeks actions. They get in each others faces, and McMahon says he's not going to take Austin's BS any more. McMahon gives Austin three options: next week, bring a certificate signed by a doctor saying he can wrestle; totally absolve the WWF of any liability saying that if he gets hurt, it's nobody's fault and he can't sue, or he gets fired. JR: 'Brings back memories!' Austin doesn't give a fuck, and says he can drop McMahon on his ass in the snap of a second. Austin says he'll beat his ass if he decides to fire him. It's not exactly hard to see why Austin was soon to be a megastar at this time, he was just a complete badass who didn't give a shit what he did. 

HEADBANGERS (c) vs. JOSE AND JESUS
Jose and Jesus of course are members of the Los Boricuas faction. Strangely, this match is for the tag titles, even though the Headbangers would defend them against the Godwinns at Badd Blood. Both teams manage to get some decent offence in, and when it looks like Los Boricuas may get to win the match and the belts, the Godwinns run in to prevent it and get the Headbangers DQ'd. Uncle Cletus (Smoky Mountain Wrestling's 'Dirty White Boy' Tony Anthony) is the manager of the Godwinns at the time. Blink and you'll miss it. The tag title match at the PPV goes ahead as planned! Well..duh!

Owen Hart walks out accompanied by a SWAT team, so he can't get attacked by Austin, who he also has a restraining order against. Owen wearing an 'OWEN 3:16' shirt with 'I just broke your neck' printed on the back. This is to hype the IC Title tournament final between Owen and Faarooq at Badd Blood. Owen says he'll win, but seems to stumble over his words sometimes. He pleads to Vince to fire Steve Austin, or in his own words 'make the right decision'. The interview is over, but all of a sudden, one of the SWAT team members takes his helmet off and then he delivers the stunner to Owen. They would milk this kind of 'guy wearing mask oh no it's somebody else' segment to death over the years.

Owen Hart is shown backstage on a stretcher STILL seeling the stunner, with Jim Neidhart watching over him. 

HUNTER HEARST HELMSLEY vs. THE UNDERTAKER
We have about eight minutes left so this will end in a screwy fashion. Undertaker walks out during his entrance but is attacked by...Bulldog and Bret Hart? Wha? Vader and The Patriot come out to even the score and they fight through the curtain, but then HBK and HHH deliver a beatdown on the fallen Undertaker. The beatdown lasts for a couple of minutes, before...cripes...the match actually starts! Taker chokeslams HHH in the middle of the ring, but RICK RUDE is out and whacks Taker in the back with the metal briefcase. All four of them (including Chyna) continue the assault, and JBk delivers Sweet Chin Music. They then place Undertaker in a BODYBAG, but as they celebrate, he sits up and rips himself out of the bag. Undertaker chases Michaels up the ramp, but is attacked by Helmsley. The chase continues, and Michaels is about to go through the curtain, but is stopped by some mysterious red light and smoke. Early signs! He's almost here! Michaels has nowhere to run and decides to climb the scaffolding, and Undertaker delivers a tombstone piledriver to HHH on the steel ramp, pretty much killing him. Yeah!

BADD BLOOD THIS SUNDAY WHOOOOO YEAH!

Tune in next time for another review!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/Cesaro superstars is just heaven in 12 mins. Its at a faster pace as opposed to their main event and alittle bit shorter but just as good. I will say it again, Cesaro is the best worker in the wwe, if I had a nickel for every time I said that I'd be a millionaire

Thanks Cody, for the link :lol yea I was being sarcastic to that other poster, I knew he wanted me to look for it myself


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just recalled a match that needs to be talked about much more: Taker/Angle 7/4/02 aka the only time Taker has tapped out. **** imo, awesome stuff.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I'm probably one of the few who thinks that the Taker/Edge HIAC is better than the WM24 match





MachoMadness1988 said:


> I like it better too.


same. i don't think that's an unpopular opinion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Ziggler/Cesaro superstars is just heaven in 12 mins. Its at a faster pace as opposed to their main event and alittle bit shorter but just as good. I will say it again, Cesaro is the best worker in the wwe, if I had a nickel for every time I said that I'd be a millionaire
> 
> Thanks Cody, for the link :lol yea I was being sarcastic to that other poster, I knew he wanted me to look for it myself


(Y)

Cesaro is god.

:lmao @ this four way. The moment it stopped being a four way it became the drizzling shits. Orton could do no wrong at this time for me except for work so many uninspiring matches vs Trips. Kill me. That was so lame. This PPV is solid enough, I guess. Nothing too special overall. MOTN for me was Kane vs Chavo.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

And even if I have an opinion that is unpopular I don't give a fuck. What is this Junior High? That doesn't mean I don't love chatting with most of you.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting Backlash 2000.....now

I'm looking forward to the Malenko/Scotty 2 Hotty match :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wish this could have happened around 1994, Savage was sorta floundering at the time of this match, nice sprint towards the end but wish it was better  20mins in 1994 though :mark: moment right there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been too long since I watched Backlash '00 as a whole. I should get on it too. At least a few matches. Got to see Big Show as Hogan and ironically squash someone.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

First time ever seeing it. DX vs E&C up first! :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Wish this could have happened around 1994, Savage was sorta floundering at the time of this match, nice sprint towards the end but wish it was better  20mins in 1994 though :mark: moment right there.


Did not know about this. Sweet!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

We will just have to agree to disagree, I know Edge looked pretty out of shape at Mania vs Taker, but I just don't see it as a carry job. Undertaker undoubtedly had the better performance, but Edge wasn't horrid or anything. I really liked it, more than HiaC at SummerSlam, for what it's worth.

I need to rewatch the matches he had with Matt Hardy around 2005. I saw the Street Fight, the Cage Match at Unforgiven, and the Loser Leaves Raw ladder match, but that was a LONG time ago so it would be hard for me to give a good perspective. I remember the Street Fight being especially kick ass. Edge was at his best from 2002-2006 in my mind. Holy hell I forgot to list his match with Foley at Mania 22. That was a fucking bloody masterpiece, I have that behind his match with Orton at BL and ECW ONS as his 3rd best performance since his 2000 run with trips. Edge looked so bad after that match was over, he was shaking violently and blood was flooding down into his eyes:mark: That match stole the show at Mania for me, so cool seeing Foley get his Mania moment walking out to chants of "FOLEY FOLEY FOLEY" covered in his own blood, Edge's blood, sweat, and tears. That might be a top 5 mania moment for me personally.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Really liking this show so far!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I lost my job today so I'll likely be getting back into selling discs in the very near future for those who were asking about certain sets I had the other day .

Might do another random rambling thingymabob for a PPV like I did for No Mercy 08 yesterday. Twas fun and peoples seemed to like it. Just gotta decide what to watch. Needs to be something of guaranteed fun though. Don't wanna throw in a PPV and it be filled with shitty wank matches. Wait, did I say wank? You need to pull your pants down to have a wank. Pull your pants down? Well now... there's an idea for a PPV!

Also, Backlash 2000 is amazing. Probably a top 5 PPV ever for me. My all time favourite too. Such fun times have been had with that show.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Well I lost my job today so I'll likely be getting back into selling discs in the very near future for those who were asking about certain sets I had the other day .
> 
> Might do another random rambling thingymabob for a PPV like I did for No Mercy 08 yesterday. Twas fun and peoples seemed to like it. Just gotta decide what to watch. Needs to be something of guaranteed fun though. Don't wanna throw in a PPV and it be filled with shitty wank matches. Wait, did I say wank? You need to pull your pants down to have a wank. Pull your pants down? Well now... there's an idea for a PPV!
> 
> Also, Backlash 2000 is amazing. Probably a top 5 PPV ever for me. My all time favourite too. Such fun times have been had with that show.


Watch Unforgiven 2006! Very fun show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Maybe another day. I've already chosen the PPV as mentioned in my post .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sorry bout your job Cal , hope you can get back on your feet.

EDIT: are you watching backlash 2000 a well? I just finished the first match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Well I lost my job today so I'll likely be getting back into selling discs in the very near future for those who were asking about certain sets I had the other day .


Well, im sorry to hear that Cal  But yeah, ill be getting in touch again RE: buying discs  :yum:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well damn Cal, sorry for that. Unemployment making another victim 

What the hell, I'm going random and bringing an idea here: how about we do a fantasy wrestling draft-style game, but with matches instead of wrestlers?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ATF said:


> What the hell, I'm going random and bringing an idea here: how about we do a fantasy wrestling draft-style game, but with matches instead of wrestlers?


That sounds awesome


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Well I lost my job today so I'll likely be getting back into selling discs in the very near future for those who were asking about certain sets I had the other day .
> 
> Might do another random rambling thingymabob for a PPV like I did for No Mercy 08 yesterday. Twas fun and peoples seemed to like it. Just gotta decide what to watch. Needs to be something of guaranteed fun though. Don't wanna throw in a PPV and it be filled with shitty wank matches. Wait, did I say wank? You need to pull your pants down to have a wank. Pull your pants down? Well now... there's an idea for a PPV!
> 
> Also, Backlash 2000 is amazing. Probably a top 5 PPV ever for me. My all time favourite too. Such fun times have been had with that show.



How about Judgement Day 2006? Or One Night Stand 2008? Or No Mercy 2002? No Way Out 2001?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'VE ALREADY PICKED THE PPV I'M GONNA WATCH. READ BETWEEN THE LINES PEOPLE!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> That sounds awesome


Hell yeah it does. My first pick would likely be HOGAN/WARRIOR II :datass :durant3 :homer


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I got Brock/Goldberk at # 2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jesus FUCK that Hardy vs MVP rematch following Backlash was honestly worse. Ughhhhh Porter diediediediedie. Why did the company use this chump?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#3 pick: Jim Neidhart & King Kong Bundy vs Jake The Snake & Yokozuna BIATCH!!!

"You wanna play 21? I've got 22!" :heyman


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> Well damn Cal, sorry for that. Unemployment making another victim
> 
> What the hell, I'm going random and bringing an idea here: how about we do a fantasy wrestling draft-style game, but with matches instead of wrestlers?


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/games...orum-draft-sign-up-discussion-thread-2-a.html

We're starting the final round this early next week, but we'll hopefully start another one right after. We've already done one and had a great response. Y'all come on and join in.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll join round #3 then


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna join that!


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

randomly watched Jericho vs HHH @ Fully Loaded 2000 in a LMS match. Pretty good. ****1/4 for that. actually felt pretty short because the action went so quickly.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

May watch the undercard matches I skipped on the World War 3 PPV tomorrow, but:

Johnny B Badd vs Diamond Dallas aah better than their Halloween Havoc match. I'd say I considerably favour it. So much shorter and got more in, but I don't think it's streets ahead. HH had a slightly more appealing underdog story. Badd/Mero wrestling match of the night on 3 consecutive PPVs? What a guy. ***3/4

Should of probably watched Sasaki/Benoit but oh well, tomorrow it is.

Sting vs Ric Flair I prefer this over Clash of Champions 1. Fuck the CotC match. Good quality match but mind numbingly boring. This is 15 minutes of bell to bell fun, extraordinary pace for a Flair match and a series of great exchanges. ***1/2


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Just bought Wrestlemania 25 and 26 to add to my DVD collection in addition to The Great American Bash 08 that I also got earlier. 

Both cards look like they will be lots of fun. Obviously both have the classic HBK vs Undertaker matches but what do you guys think is the better PPV? Looking at the cards I would take a guess at 26.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Who doesn't like that match?





I always watch wrestling from a 'just have fun perspective'; IDK why anybody wouldn't. It's just that I literally cannot have fun watching a Kurt Angly spotfest. I don't shit on a Kurt Angly spotfest to seem smart or seem to have different tastes or to teel anyone I need a 'deep story' or because I'll feel lame if I like them, I just legitimately hate them. They've been compared to those popcorn action movies and that's a great comparison, but honestly I fucking hate popcorn action movies as well. 

Wrestling and movies actually have decent comparisons, come to look at it. Well kind of, I really am not a fan of movies at all. I guess I just made this statement to say that HHH/Steiner is Birdemic or the Room.


Might watch some 2010 stuff today. lmaoprobnotisuck


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I always watch wrestling from a 'just have fun perspective'; IDK why anybody wouldn't. It's just that I literally cannot have fun watching a Kurt Angly spotfest. I don't shit on a Kurt Angly spotfest to seem smart or seem to have different tastes or to teel anyone I need a 'deep story' or because I'll feel lame if I like them, I just legitimately hate them. They've been compared to those popcorn action movies and that's a great comparison, but honestly I fucking hate popcorn action movies as well.
> 
> Wrestling and movies actually have decent comparisons, come to look at it. Well kind of, I really am not a fan of movies at all. I guess I just made this statement to say that HHH/Steiner is Birdemic or the Room.
> 
> ...


:lmao at you comparing HHH vs Steiner to "The Room".

I'm a complete movie nut, I watch movies and sports (NBA, NFL) more than I watch wrestling. But wrestling is a solid #3, I watch a ton of it in the summer when football and basketball aren't on. I can enjoy a spot fest as much as anyone, as long as they are done well. Ill always enjoy matches that have sound psychology and tell a great story more, obviously. 

Speaking of matches that tell a great story, I just watched Jeff Hardy vs Taker Ladder Match is awesome, I don't understand how anyone can not be a fan of that. One of the best under dog stories ever told in a ring. I'm sure that match has plenty of detractors but for me it was almost perfect.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I compare movies to wrestling all the time. My favorite movie of all time is The Dark Knight Rises and the other 2 in the trilogy round out my top 3. I love a good story, needs to build up to a finish, I need to care about the plot, That is how I relate it to a wrestling match, I hate movies like Transformers (spottfests) and no story.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Did anyone see this week's NXT. anything special?

I like some spotfests in wrestling, but I really hate them in movies...


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

Any thoughts/ratings for summerslam 2012? Just bought the show.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Undertaker said:


> Any thoughts/ratings for summerslam 2012? Just bought the show.


Jericho/Ziggler is MOTN IMO. some love HHH/Lesnar, some hate it. 

I thought it was ok.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness that somebody else agrees with me about how awful that Backlash Fatal Fourway match was. Typical WWE-main event style done in a very bad way. Now we need more people to acknowledge how overrated the Edge/Undertaker feud/matches are (except for the HIAC and WM match).


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched the Intercontinental Title triple threat from Paycheck and found it surprisingly good. I give it *** which is high for a match involving Miz.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont understand when people say this guys isn't charismatic and funny, I miss his US title run, last time it was half way important tbh, remember when he wrestled twice a ppv ?

Watching hhh/hardy nm 08 and really digging it, probably MOTN on that stacked card


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> Might watch some 2010 stuff today. lmaoprobnotisuck


don't 'probnot' yourself, silly fool.

Rey Mysterio v. Chris Jericho (SmackDown 1/1/10)
2010 might be my favourite Rey year because of his insane variety of opponents. I love the Punk feud, the Gallows matches, the Knox match, the Swagger feud, the Taker match, so I thought what the hell, I’ll watch a Rey 2010 match I don’t remember. If you want to be technical then this would have happened in December of 2009, but I will go by air dates just because. This is one of those Beat the Clock dealys for 7:20 or less (which was Punk v. Matt Hardy, damn, I wanna see that), where dudes who get the shortest time face WHC Taker at the Rumble. Everyone knows Rey faces Taker at the Rumble, so no shit, this goes less 7:20. It’s on cool little match, but I felt weird watching the first half of it, it was like Rey was too tired for whatever Jericho had done to him, including this weirdly long stay on the outside. Still it’s Rey, so even if I wasn’t ultra high on his selling here (as I usually am), there’s always going to being something I dig a lot. I thought his fights upward were really cool I this one, including one where he did this flying headbutt from the turnbuckle where Jericho was standing up. I loved his little moments of using the ropes to get up and try to quickly finish the match. Good finish, too, where Rey couldn’t hit Any 619s (or hitting one and having his springboard code-broken) and went with the roll up with 4 seconds left. Jericho looked shockingly good to me. I remember 2010 being where I thought Jericho had lost it and was just worthless, but he busted out good looking different shit in this one, really heavy clotheslines, leaning over the get more strength on the cobra clutch-looking hold, the Atlantis backbreaker-drop-breaker-thingy, and countering the first 619 shot with this high-air back body that Matt Striker ruined. I should check more 2010 Jericho, I wonder if he carried Edge to something I’d like. Have I ever said fuck Matt Striker? Fuck Matt Striker. I can’t believe anybody has the tolerance to withstand this little turd on commentary. I admire whoever isn’t bothered by his bullshittyness. Fuck Matt Striker. NOT ADDING.

Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
All right, no more fucking around with stuff I don’t know is good or not (for the one match). Did Matt Striker have to commentate this? Ugh. So this is less control-based and more back-and-forth than their other 2010 matches, and as a result is probably my least favourite of 2010 their series (the longer matches, anyway), but fuck that ‘it sounds like I’m talking it down’ noise, because this is so goddamn great. I said it was back-and-forth and that’s true, but it’s the kind of back-and-forth where they hit small moves and reversals to big ones so lack of selling isn’t an issue. AND, because of these small moves being so frequent, some of them feel massive. The opening parts have Christian escaping a Drew onslaught by going to the outside, and when they hit the apron area there are leg-catches and elbow throws that don’t even connect, but feel big and important, as if noting that if one of these motherfuckers hits something, shit will go down. There are a couple of times where both guys just want space, and there’s this super awesome spot where Christian needs room to hit a tornado DDT while perched on the turnbuckle, so he just knees McIntyre directly in the mouth. Drew’s sell of said tornado DDT is also fucking great; he has this long lanky body so when he does his delayed flip on it, the whole thing just winds up looking incredible. Speaking of Christian being perched on the turnbuckle, how fucking nasty is that spill when McIntyre pushes him? Holy crap in Hell Christian just takes some of the more disgusting looking dumps whenever someone does that to him. Stuff like that of course results in Christian making attempts to work upward, and even these little bits in this back-and-forth match made me excited to go back to their other matches. These two are some kind of bump freaks and are perfectly fit for each other. Million stars. ADDED

Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
“Don’t let Kaval’s low-key demeanour fool you”. Oh my God somebody staple Matt Striker in the clit. I remember this match and their later (and lengthier) SuperStars match blowing me away. This is the semi-famous four minute sprint and HOLY FUCKKK is it even better than I remembered. No, it’s WAY better than I remembered. Ki uses like nothing but different variations of kicks and I fucking love it; it’s your SmackDown debut, you have five minutes - just kick the shit out a guy in some spectacular and different ways and people will remember the bald deep-voiced ninja when he shows up next. I’ve seen people say Low Ki is a no-seller and I say those people are full of complete shit, I’ve seen him sell the leg and arm tons of cool times before, and his quick head-rubbing tiredness four minute selling here was great too. Drew’s spots in this were out of this world. He starts off acting bully-like to the little NXT inferior guy, and when Ki starts stiffing him with kicks he decides to return the favour by suplexing him on the apron (from the floor, sounded ridiculous and Ki just drops to the outside). Holy fuck barricade is indescribable, but I will try to describe it. You know those swings into the barricade where the victim is in a powerbomb position and the swinger just…SWINGS? It was like that, only Drew actually sued a powerbomb. Into the barricade. Like, diagonally. He had Ki in powerbomb position while standing parallel to the barricade and just threw him diagonally downward, headfirst into it. It was completely fucked up and disgusting. Is there going to be one disgusting spot in every McIntyre match I watch? Maybe it’s because I just watched this, but I’m putting it over Rey/Punk. They’ll both wind up ‘other contenders’ with the other short matches down the road anyway. ADDING. 

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
2.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
3.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
4.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
5.	d
6.	d
7.	d
8.	d
9.	d
10.	d
11.	d
12.	d
13.	d
14.	d
15.	d
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	dd
25.	dd


Other contenders:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I just watched that kaval/drew match, its a blast, watched the pre-promo with laycool backstage. I gotta say I love her to death and she is my future wife, but Layla is a terrible actress :lmao


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

Here's a question for you guys...did Mr. Kennedy/Anderson ever have a match halfway decent enough to validate all the time he wasted in WWE? Closest thing I can think of is maybe his feud with Taker but none of those matches would even reach the 4 star mark for me. No Mercy 06 match is boring as hell and the first blood match from Survivor Series is just a fucking mess. The Last Ride match from Armageddon is the only redeeming thing Kennedy ever did in the E. Other than winning the Money in the Bank...but he screwed that up too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

pjc33 said:


> Here's a question for you guys...did Mr. Kennedy/Anderson ever have a match halfway decent enough to validate all the time he wasted in WWE? Closest thing I can think of is maybe his feud with Taker but none of those matches would even reach the 4 star mark for me. No Mercy 06 match is boring as hell and the first blood match from Survivor Series is just a fucking mess. The Last Ride match from Armageddon is the only redeeming thing Kennedy ever did in the E. Other than winning the Money in the Bank...but he screwed that up too.


Well, he was in that awesome MITB match at WM 23 :lol

Haven't seen nearly enough of his matches to further go into detail.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I liked Matt Striker on commentary. 

Matches I liked from Kennedy: The Undertaker series, I think the Batista match from GAB, a couple of the match with HBK were good and iirc he has a good match against Benoit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kennedy did have a good match with Benoit, but every Benoit match is good. Never saw the Undertaker series. I was gonna watch it, but I needed an opinion other than Callamus' on Undertaker matches like those. The Michaels matches were pretty good too. Shockingly enough, I remember liking the cage match with Angle in TNA, but I haven't seen it in three years, nor do I want to watch it ever again. LEAVE THE MEMORIES ALONE!


----------



## pjc33 (Sep 6, 2009)

And seeing as how I mentioned that First Blood Match from Survivor Series 06...I think this is the event that started the downfall of Survivor Series as a major PPV. It's just so bad from start to finish. Even the most appealing match on the card was a joke. The traditional Survivor Series elimination match between Team DX and Team Rated RKO ended in a clean sweep and Batista and Booker went and stunk the place up in the main event. Late 2006 in general was just a dark time in WWE. 

And to think...December to Dismember took place just a month later.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

pjc33 said:


> And seeing as how I mentioned that First Blood Match from Survivor Series 06...I think this is the event that started the downfall of Survivor Series as a major PPV. It's just so bad from start to finish. Even the most appealing match on the card was a joke. The traditional Survivor Series elimination match between Team DX and Team Rated RKO ended in a clean sweep and Batista and Booker went and stunk the place up in the main event. Late 2006 in general was just a dark time in WWE.


Well, the RR was good in 2007 and so was mania. 

I personally think 2012 was a terrible year for WWE, Hutz


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When 2012 was going on, I loved it. Looking back though, 2013 has basically done everything 2012 did in a much better fashion. Everything except that 2012 was one of the best years in recent memories when it came to PPVs and 2012 had the GOAT WWE title reign unk3

First 3-4 months of 2007 had some good stuff. Then it just turned into the worst wrestling ever...:cena4 :batista2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think that 2012's biggest problem was its bad PPVS TBH. NOTE: I did not watch WWE in 2012,yet I've seen all the PPVS and a ton of RAW's and SD's. Their were three good PPVS, but a ton sucked

1: Extreme Rules


2: WrestleMania 28




3:TLC












The rest


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> I think that 2012's biggest problem was its bad PPVS TBH. NOTE: I did not watch WWE in 2012,yet I've seen all the PPVS and a ton of RAW's and SD's. Their were three good PPVS, but a ton sucked
> 
> 1: Extreme Rules
> 
> ...


Those three PPVs were awesome, but there were other good ones too that did not get recognition mainly because for some odd reason, John Cena was main eventing instead of CM Punk (Over The Limit, No Way Out, Money in the Bank). Night of Champions was also the best PPV of its name by a country mile. The "bad" PPVs in 2012 still had at least a couple good matches in them, just not anything great. 2012 PPVs could have been worse; they could have been 1998-1999. Now THAT was horrid.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

2012 was a pretty bad year for TV, but pretty much every PPV excluding SummerSlam, Survivor Series, and Hell In A Cell was good to great.

This year, I feel the product as a whole is better compared to this time last year, but the only consistently good PPVs have been...well, the last three.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Those three PPVs were awesome, but there were other good ones too that did not get recognition mainly because for some odd reason, John Cena was main eventing instead of CM Punk (Over The Limit, No Way Out, Money in the Bank). Night of Champions was also the best PPV of its name by a country mile. The "bad" PPVs in 2012 still had at least a couple good matches in them, just not anything great. 2012 PPVs could have been worse; they could have been 1998-1999. Now THAT was horrid.


1997 too. No different than 2012 with the one or two matches worth seeing and the rest filled with mediocre or bad matches. Seriously, that year is no different any other late 90's Attitude Era in quality when it comes to PPVs. I don't understand it. Canadian Stampede & SummerSlam are pretty much the only good shows from top to bottom & the main event from SummerSlam is horseshit, which does put a bit of a damper on things.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

On '06 PPV talk, Cyber Sunday '06 was unbearable garbage too.

'07 did have its share of good shows - Rumble, WM, Backlash, GAB, and everything from NM onwards.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cyber Sunday '06 isn't half bad actually. Remembered it being shit & only two matches were. Good trumps the bad. Kane vs Umaga & Rated RKO vs DX are great + Big Show being a bossy master in the main event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A bossy master in a barely average ME. DX/Rated RKO was the only good stuff afaic. Kane/Umaga was far better at Unforgiven, here was OK at peak. Everything else is Kelly Kelly levels of suck. Imo at least.

Heard talk about NOC 2012 being the best NOC yet. Sir, you forgettin' about this show:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No, more like the match wasn't a steaming pile of shit when Big Show was actually in the match. Which was a good portion of it. Match is one of two halves: Big Show in it = awesome & Big Show not in it = crap.

Unforgiven match is nowhere near as good as the Cyber Sunday match. And the Unforgiven match is good to boot. Cyber Sunday was just fabulous. Guest ref tag match on the card is a forgotten gem. Some wonderful tag work shown by all the men in the match. Blew me away as I wasn't expecting anything that swell. Better than the overrated NYR match.

No surprise the fun little tag matches on the show get shortchanged too. For once I'd love a wider opinion on things. Short matches aren't a drawback...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You're so right about Show. Shame that his single performance =/= good overall match.

Kane/Umaga UF was an awesome slugfest with Kane being the perfect match to the unstoppable Bulldozer. CS was from my pov another Umaga shows-off performance (not that its a bad thing, this time just didn't click with me). And I'm starting to think you're a Tag Team formula activist :lol NYR was absolute storytelling brilliance. CS was just a solid Tag with good heel work from Rated RKO and Bischoff.

The fillers are fun but trash. Especially the 4-Way. Hated the fuck out of it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Man I haaaaaate that Cyber Sunday DX tag. Last two or three times I've tried to watch it I wound up turning it off at the same spot/time in the match. Someone gets a chair on the outside and I just wind up going 'fuck this boogershit' . I should give the DX/McMahons HIAC another shake because it's been years (in like 2009 I hated its guts too and gave it *3/4 or something). At least that one has the Big Show who probably rules it.



Cody there's a Meng thread in Classic. Best two posts so far:



CD Player said:


> One time Haku was in a fight and cops tried to stop him. Haku hit one officer in the face. That officer used to be a boxer, and said that was the most powerful hit he ever took. They also used a taser on Haku, but he legitimately no sold it.





Thekweewee said:


> There was also a separate incident in LA when he apparently got shot with mace, closed his eyes and sucked it in. He opened his mouth, took a deep breath and carried on fighting the cops.


I'd love for WWE to have had Haku around in the mid 2000s where they did stupid shit like shoot the Big Show with a tranquilizer. That way Haku could take the tranquilizer and just continue wrestling with it in his back because he has no idea he's been shot yet. Or an inferno match where Haku puts his arm in fire intentionally to have a new weapon. Or the John Cena v. Haku last man standing match where Cena goes to tie the rope around Haku's neck for the finish and the rope snaps. Or the Money in the Bank ladder match that Haku is in where he's climbing the ladder and other wrestlers are chucking chairs at him and he just asks 'who the fuck is throwing these piece of paper at me?'


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NYR was general main event level nothing special bleh from those four & had the injury behind it which certainly didn't help things. Never been a premiere tag team match at all. I'll stick with the match that's actually impressive. Only so much sensationalized WWE "importance" I can take behind a story. They were forcing way too hard in the rematch. Cyber Sunday hit the mark.

Don't really get that. If they're fun, then that's nothing but a positive in my eyes. Dug the four way. Exactly what a tornado match needed to be. Short & sweet. Fast & furious. No problems there. Then the Flair & Piper vs Spirit Squad tag ended up blowing away Spirit Squad vs Highlanders from Unforgiven and I marked. Tag team wrestling is the best. I've made this known plenty of times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Man I haaaaaate that Cyber Sunday DX tag. Last two or three times I've tried to watch it I wound up turning it off at the same spot/time in the match. Someone gets a chair on the outside and I just wind up going 'fuck this boogershit' . I should give the DX/McMahons HIAC another shake because it's been years (in like 2009 I hated its guts too and gave it *3/4 or something). At least that one has the Big Show who probably rules it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Leaves me sadface b/c I seriously thought they left all of that typical bullshit at the door in the match. I don't even remember a chair shot happening.

Posted in it. Feel like I can take on the world. Why was he not used well in 2001? I'm gonna go get answers. I'll die trying. I don't care.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> NYR was general main event level nothing special bleh from those four & had the injury behind it which certainly didn't help things. Never been a premiere tag team match at all. I'll stick with the match that's actually impressive. Only so much sensationalized WWE "importance" I can take behind a story. They were forcing way too hard in the rematch. Cyber Sunday hit the mark.
> 
> Don't really get that. If they're fun, then that's nothing but a positive in my eyes. Dug the four way. Exactly what a tornado match needed to be. Short & sweet. Fast & furious. No problems there. Then the Flair & Piper vs Spirit Squad tag ended up blowing away Spirit Squad vs Highlanders from Unforgiven and I marked. Tag team wrestling is the best. I've made this known plenty of times.


"Premiere tag" it was not, what it was is a huge brawl with two angry babyfaces beating the holy fuck out of the sneaky, bastard heels that bloodied up their close friend in Flair ( :HHH2 ), exactly how the storyline demanded. It was awesome for what it was. Cyber Sunday hit the mark in heel work, but that's all tbh. Not all regular tags with good face/heel dynamics rule the world. But this is all opinions.

Fun, yes. But fun doesn't equal sweet. It's a mere positive, not an opinion changer. A good example of that? Kurt "*Here we go again, kinda tired of mentioning him* " Angle :kurt


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It still is pretty crummy work any way you spin it. This storytelling mantra isn't working.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You could tell that about Dolph/Alberto or Cena/Lesnar. Storytelling aside, both are as one-sided as they come. Not saying this compares, but this is pretty much the same case - the brilliant story ups this badly. It was sloppier than expected, yeah, but it's not like it's Punk/Rock in terms of wrestling being bad enough to ruin the good storytelling.

But who am I kidding, I'm talking to the guy whose opinion is that BookDust/Un-Americans is a Top 10 SummerSlam match ever (opinions are opinions but that one is more than curious) :hayley2

EDIT: Thoughts on No Mercy '01 for a change?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey! Booker T and Goldust were a killer team. Immaculate.

Rock/Jericho is really really good and I remember liking the main event. Can't remember anything else. But Rock/Jericho...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, Rock Vs Jericho rules the earth.

I'm honestly gonna come out and say that Rock might be Jericho's best WWF/WWE opponent ever, with a bunch of TV matches I liked, the rumble match I love, and the no mercy match which in all honesty might be Rock's second greatest performance ever behind the Austin retirement bout at XIX.

I'm a Jericho fan, fuck it. His character in 1998 was just love. LOVE I TELL YOU GOSH DARNIT.

Plus, that match with Goldberg at Bad Blood thoughhhhh. Damn. Underrated shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Yeah, Rock Vs Jericho rules the earth.
> 
> I'm honestly gonna come out and say that Rock might be Jericho's best WWF/WWE opponent ever, with a bunch of TV matches I liked, the rumble match I love, and the no mercy match which in all honesty might be Rock's second greatest performance ever behind the Austin retirement bout at XIX.
> 
> ...



Jericho says Rocky was his favorite opponent of all time in his book, and you can really see why. They just tear it up whenever they are in the ring together, great chemistry. I honestly can't think of a bad match between the two.

And yes Heel Jericho in 1998 was one of my favorite characters ever. The whole conspiracy victim vignette is one of the funniest ones WCW has ever done.

I'm about to watch the Jericho vs Taker match from Smackdown in 2009 that's on his set, I haven't seen that one. I don't think those 2 ever got much of a chance to work together.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho's 2000 needs to be talked about more. One good babyface performance after another that year. Rock is probably his second best opponent hbk), but Mysterio and HHH deserve mention as well. Then again, Mysterio/Jericho matches in WCW kinda sucked.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I might start a Top 100 matches of the 21st Century so far. 

DAT MODERN ERA unk :hbk :kurt :jericho :brock :cena4 :HHH2 :taker :edge :kane :bryan


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Who doesn't like that match? Yeah it is effin great. I really want the Pegasus dvd set but it's hard to find at a good price. Cheapest I have seen it (used) is like $20. I have a hard time dropping $20 on that but that is just me.


I just realize you replace Benoit with Pegasus in every post you make and replace it in everyone's post that you quote. :lol Nice.



redskins25 said:


> Oh no not that "rank your top 10 streak matches" discussion incoming


CRYSIS ADVERTED! Every damn week it seems...



Mr.Limelight said:


> Just bought Wrestlemania 25 and 26 to add to my DVD collection in addition to The Great American Bash 08 that I also got earlier.
> 
> Both cards look like they will be lots of fun. Obviously both have the classic HBK vs Undertaker matches but what do you guys think is the better PPV? Looking at the cards I would take a guess at 26.


Yeah 26 is better. 25 gets a bad rep because of the shitty main event but the show isn't all that bad. 



Undertaker said:


> Any thoughts/ratings for summerslam 2012? Just bought the show.


It's a pretty consistent show but nothing really stands out. Jericho/Ziggler is MOTN at *** 1/2 and I wouldn't put anything else past *** 1/4 on it but everything seems to be close to that range. Brock/Trips, Cena/Punk/Show, Sheamus/Del Rio & Mysterio/Miz all watchable (well Brock/HHH isn't great but it's watchable).



HayleySabin said:


> Cyber Sunday '06 isn't half bad actually. Remembered it being shit & only two matches were. Good trumps the bad. Kane vs Umaga & Rated RKO vs DX are great + Big Show being a bossy master in the main event.


Can't believe you like the DX/RKO tag. I've watched it twice and it's just... boring. 



ATF said:


> EDIT: Thoughts on No Mercy '01 for a change?


Really, really good PPV imo. Jericho/Rock is off the charts fantastic, I'm talking **** 3/4 level. Main Event is a ton of fun, Kane/Test is a big surprise, and I remember really liking the ladder match but it's been a while.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Backlash 2000 review*​
*Match # 1: Edge and Christian (c) vs DX (Road Dogg and X-Pac)- tag team match for the WWF tag team titles. *

Well, I love E&C and an awesome tag match opens a ton of PPVS in the attitude era so I expect so much out of this match. Debra’s ring announcing is comically bad while Torrie accompanies DX to the ring. I think JR and king is the GOAT commentary combo, so I’m already entertained. This was jut a flat out FUN match, Lots of charisma between these 4 men. And Torrie did her part as a fun interfering character. I swear every time a tag match with E&C is on and its 2000-2001 it is pure fun. Crowd got hot and popped for E&C when they retained. *** ¾* 

*Match # 2: Dean Malenko (c) vs Scotty 2 Hotty- singles match for the WWF Light Heavyweight Championship.*

Wow, this was a great technical match. It wasn’t legendary and I certainly did not feel invested in both of these guys characters but the match itself was awesome. Scotty 2 Hotty is not my favorite guy, but this might be his best match. I just thought it was a good match for a usually minor title. *** ¾*

*Match # 3: Bull Buchanon and the big Bossman vs the APA- tag match*

Honestly, my favorite part of this match was looking up and seeing that TEDDY LONG is the referee :lol. Anyways, pretty standard tag match here, both are just your run of the mill teams from in rng perpective. Buchanon and boss man get the win here, but its just a meh match. * ½*

*Match # 4: Crash Holly (c) vs Jeff Hardy vs Matt Hardy vs Hardcore Holly vs Perry Saturn vs Tazz in a Six-Man WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

This is a classic hardcore title match, and this is another just FUN match. I loved all the weapons and spots that make me miss the hardcore title. And for all you marks out there, their as ZERO blood in this match so don’t go blaming the PG era on why we can’t have matches like this with the PG rating. ****

*Match # 5: Big show vs Kurt Angle- singles match*
Squash match as Big show was getting a mini-push at the moment, kind of funny- ½*. 

*Match # 6: The Dudleyz vs Test and Albert(with Trish Stratus)- tag match*

Wow another tag match? That’s three already. But I love the dudleyz and they were hot at thim point and their act had not gotten stale yet. What a funny match. Trish did some hilarious things during the match but King was killing it on commentary. SO FUNNY, so many bad puns but not too many :lol. The match itself was alright but the ending had a HUGE pop from the crowd when Bubba ray put Trish through the table. Funny stuff. *** 1/2*

*Match # 7: Eddie Gurrero vs Essa Rios- singles match for the European title.*

Damn, too many titles :lol. Don’t know who Essa Rios is but its an Eddie match so I have faith. Pretty bad match TBH. This Rios guy is boring and Eddie attempts to carry him and almost does, but its so boring. It wasn’t given my undivided attention simply because it was that bad. Good thing eddie produced so many classics though. * 

*Match # 8: Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit- singles match for the IC title
*
:mark: :mark:, so pumped for this match it’s not even funny. Both guys rarely have a bad match it’s scary! I loved this match, but hated the finish, that DQ was totally unnecessary and didn’t make Jericho look stronger if that was the intent. If they wanted a non fininsh why didn’t they have one that made sense? But otherwise an epic match, it was just fun and I need to rewatch their ladder match that happened at RR 2001, because that’s an awesome match as well. **** ½*

*Match # 9; HHH(c)(W/Vince and Stephanie) vs the Rock(w/Steve Austin)- Singles match for the WWF title*

This was stone colds big return to the WWE since he took time off in like November, but I don’t think he had wrestled in a while. This was MOTN for me. Everything about it was just so awesome. The wrestling was top notch(I loved the double rock bottom), the storytelling was fantastic, and the atmospehere was awesome. Just a very FUN match in general, I knew the rock was going to win but I still got excited when he it the people’s elbow. Everyone was on their game this night. Vince was gold and I loved Linda coming in at the end. Stone Cold was awesome as usual, as he hit like 8 people with a chair to assist the rock in winning the WWF title. **** ¾*

This PPV was good, I wish the undercard was a little more interesting but besides that it was solid. I was not a big fan of the Eddie match which is shocking. But Benoit/Jericho and HHH/Rock were the two biggest matches of the night and both delivered. 8/10 PPV


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BL 2000 is epic. Judgment Day is also epic iirc.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I just realize you replace Pegasus with Pegasus in every post you make and replace it in everyone's post that you quote. :lol Nice.
> 
> 
> I'm glad someone else finally picked up on this. It's a shot at the E for not mentioning his existence.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw, y'all should take your time and watch Londrick/James & Sandowtevens @ No Mercy '06. Great gem imo


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

you wanna know what's epic the Rock/Austin/JR sitdown interview before WM X-Seven http://filecloud.io/f8v3snl7


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> you wanna know what's epic the Rock/Austin/JR sitdown interview before WM X-Seven http://filecloud.io/f8v3snl7


I remember watching this live and thinking that I had no damn idea what was going to happen. This was epic indeed. 

I'm all in favor of an Austin/Rock rivalry dvd/blu ray like the Bret/Shawn one. There is not the animosity with Austin and Rock like there is/was with Bret and Shawn but kayfabe speaking is there a better rivalry than Austin and Rock? Probably not. They have the matches and promos to fit into 3 dvds (2 blu rays) and a sit down interview with JR about their rivalry would be fun.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How is that Austin/Bret doc? Any matches on it?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> How is that Austin/Bret doc? Any matches on it?


Do you mean Bret/Shawn doc? If that is what you meant I love it. I knew a lot of it already but it was just fun to see. People call Bret boring and a mark for himself (I can see the second part) but he is a fantastic storyteller imho. 

Yes there were a lot of good matches on the Bret/Shawn set (I have the blu ray)....the Screwjob is on it, which I find incredibly entertaining until the end also the iron man, main event of survivor series 1992 which I enjoy, the first ladder match, a cage match, some rockers/foundation matches, etc.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

The ending to Summerslam 2003 still pisses me off 10 years later. What on earth were they thinking? How can anyone justify that?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Do you mean Bret/Shawn doc? If that is what you meant I love it. I knew a lot of it already but it was just fun to see. People call Bret boring and a mark for himself (I can see the second part) but he is a fantastic storyteller imho.
> 
> Yes there were a lot of good matches on the Bret/Shawn set (I have the blu ray)....the Screwjob is on it, which I find incredibly entertaining until the end also the iron man, main event of survivor series 1992 which I enjoy, the first ladder match, a cage match, some rockers/foundation matches, etc.


Yes Shawn/Bret :lol

Will check it out on netflix


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Smitty- 

Only the doc is on net flix I believe. Well that was the case a few weeks ago. The doc is fantastic though. Bret and Shawn make great points about opening the door for "smaller guys". There is a reason guys like Jericho, Punk, Bryan and Dolph look up to them. 




Marv95 said:


> The ending to Summerslam 2003 still pisses me off 10 years later. What on earth were they thinking? How can anyone justify that?



Well, there are a lot of factors. :jpl


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

pjc33 said:


> And seeing as how I mentioned that First Blood Match from Survivor Series 06...I think this is the event that started the downfall of Survivor Series as a major PPV. It's just so bad from start to finish. Even the most appealing match on the card was a joke. The traditional Survivor Series elimination match between Team DX and Team Rated RKO ended in a clean sweep and Batista and Booker went and stunk the place up in the main event. Late 2006 in general was just a dark time in WWE.
> 
> And to think...December to Dismember took place just a month later.


December to Dismember was actually a week after Survivor Series. :lol

Late 2006 was fun when it comes to TV stuff but on PPV... it was brutal. Three horrible ones in a row.



funnyfaces1 said:


> First 3-4 months of 2007 had some good stuff. Then it just turned into the worst wrestling ever...:cena4 :batista2


Yeah, although Cena is not to blame. I'm now in June 2007 and about to end this little project with the Benoit tribute show. It's so boring and I fast forward most shows. The shit started after Wrestlemania but it _really_ turned to shit after Backlash. Great Khali is the #1 contender and they keep rushing unannounced matches into the PPVs as they happen. Some terrible booking and I guess things would not pick up until the end when Orton finally became the champion.

This Lashley vs McMahon's feud is just awful and takes up more TV time than it should. Only interesting thing now since May has been Orton slowly turning into his Viper character.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Marv95 said:


> The ending to Summerslam 2003 still pisses me off 10 years later. What on earth were they thinking? How can anyone justify that?


what happened? somehow i'm sure HHH was involved because of the post just below yours.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Marv95 said:


> The ending to Summerslam 2003 still pisses me off 10 years later. What on earth were they thinking? How can anyone justify that?


They were doing what was best for business :HHH2

Can't wait to go through all the Clash of the Champions as a big project. Surprised that they went on all the way into the nWo era. Hopefully there are some real good gems that nobody talks enough about.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Clash of the Champions was so badass. I remember watching the Flair/Funk I Quit match (one of my fave matches ever) when I was like 9. Good times. I wish they would bring something like that or Saturday Night Main Event back. Maybe 3-4 of those a year and 3-4 less PPVs? 

What is everyone's feeling on Ricky Steamboat? He was one of my favorites growing up. There was talk that WWF wanted to turn him heel in 1988 and feud with Hogan. I wonder how that would have gone over? Anyway....he obviously had some classic matches with Savage, Roberts, Bret Hart, Flair, Rude, Vader, etc. Hell even his match with Jericho in 2009 was damn good. Something that I have noticed lately is his psychology is strange. All of the arm drags and arm bars and martial arts stuff. But then his finisher is a flying cross body? Just strange to me. I just watched his match with Flair at CotC in 1989 the other day and the chicken wing he put on Flair for the fall he gained was badass. I just think a submission finisher like that from Steamer would have been much better for him. Especially since he was always a face. 

Thoughts?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Haha, this is the third time you brought up Steamboat's finisher contradiction. I guess I'll bite. I always pictured the crossbody as the ultimate babyface move. What's more "babyface-like" than a guy risking his own safety by flying off the top rope on to his opponent? The chickenwing was definitely the better finisher, but it doesn't have the same babyface effect of a good crossbody.

Completely forgot that Funk/Flair was a COTC match. Even more excited now.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Haha, this is the third time you brought up Steamboat's finisher contradiction. I guess I'll bite. I always pictured the crossbody as the ultimate babyface move. What's more "babyface-like" than a guy risking his own safety by flying off the top rope on to his opponent? The chickenwing was definitely the better finisher, but it doesn't have the same babyface effect of a good crossbody.
> 
> Completely forgot that Funk/Flair was a COTC match. Even more excited now.


I could not remember if I brought it up in here or not haha. My bad. 

Don't get me wrong I love me some Steamboat. He makes my all time top 10 probably. You make a good point. Even as a kiddo though I was like uhhh Flair has kicked out of much worse than that. 

Dude Flair/Funk I Quit is spectacular. You talking about the Clash made me think of that. I go back and forth all the time between this match and the Flair/Sting title match from the first Clash as the best CotC match ever. I honestly can't pick one. 

I hate using the words revolutionary but in the I Quit match they were doing things I had never seen and that were incredibly edgy for 1989. One of the best TV matches ever. That would be a fun list to make for anyone in the mood to make a list. God, Flair could have got a 4 star match out of a broomstick in his prime. Well, he got good matches out of Luger which was essentially the same thing. 

Did you hear Henry might be hurt? If true....F. I was really excited about him and Show as a tag team.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Summerslam 92 on wwe classics on demand? This Sunday just got a whole lot better!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Summerslam 92 on wwe classics on demand? This Sunday just got a whole lot better!


Great PPV. Heenan was so funny that ppv.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Clash of the Champions was so badass. I remember watching the Flair/Funk I Quit match (one of my fave matches ever) when I was like 9. Good times. I wish they would bring something like that or Saturday Night Main Event back. Maybe 3-4 of those a year and 3-4 less PPVs?
> 
> What is everyone's feeling on Ricky Steamboat? He was one of my favorites growing up. There was talk that WWF wanted to turn him heel in 1988 and feud with Hogan. I wonder how that would have gone over? Anyway....he obviously had some classic matches with Savage, Roberts, Bret Hart, Flair, Rude, Vader, etc. Hell even his match with Jericho in 2009 was damn good. Something that I have noticed lately is his psychology is strange. All of the arm drags and arm bars and martial arts stuff. But then his finisher is a flying cross body? Just strange to me. I just watched his match with Flair at CotC in 1989 the other day and the chicken wing he put on Flair for the fall he gained was badass. I just think a submission finisher like that from Steamer would have been much better for him. Especially since he was always a face.
> 
> Thoughts?


why have you posted the same thing about Steamboat 3 different times (and that's just that i've seen ffs) within the span of like 3 days? he had a crossbody and nobody fucking cares. get the fuck over it.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Way back when the crossbody was believable. Then the spot monkeys got into the business.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched Kaitlyn/AJ from Payback and really enjoyed it. That is rare for me for a Divas match. To me this ranked up there with Trish/Lita and Trish/Movie she great Divas matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

bigbuxxx said:


> why have you posted the same thing about Steamboat 3 different times (and that's just that i've seen *ffs) within the span of like 3 days? he had a crossbody and nobody fucking cares. get the fuck over it.*


Calm down. I forgot if I posted it here or another area on the bored. You will be ok. Count to 10.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So that PPV I was watching and rambling on last night? I got tired and got 2 matches in before I went to bed . Watching it again now. Also, it's not the PPV I was originally planning on watching :lmao. But I'm glad I picked this because it's been so much fucking FUN so far.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Is it Capitol Punishment 2011?!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Gonna review a Wrestlemania I have never seen before. Might take a while though, I have plans tonight and start school Tuesday. Could take a few days :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Is it Capitol Punishment 2011?!


Has any name for a PPV ever been more apt. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Thankfully my brain has made me forget that PPV. I literally can not name a single match that took place on it. 

Well the rambling review thingy is on hold. MASTERCHEF AUSTRALIA S5 FINALE JUST FINISHED DOWNLOADING. Which is a shame because the PPV went from "fun" to "2 fucking great matches in a row".


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bahahaha


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was Barack Obama the ref then?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

All I can remember from Capitol Punishment was the good-great Punk/Rey match, and R-Truth main eventing.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Callamus said:


> Thankfully my brain has made me forget that PPV. I literally can not name a single match that took place on it.
> 
> Well the rambling review thingy is on hold. MASTERCHEF AUSTRALIA S5 FINALE JUST FINISHED DOWNLOADING. Which is a shame because the PPV went from "fun" to "2 fucking great matches in a row".


Well, John Cena vs. R-Truth was the main event. You're welcome!  :sandow

I remember Punk vs. Mysterio being solid. Yeah, that's about it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There was a good Orton/Christian too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes Punk/Rey and Orton/Christian were both very good. 2011 was up and down and well this was the down period.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

At least the next PPV was MITB 2011 

They need to do another PPV in DC, Its only 3 hours from me :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2011 did have a couple of kick-ass PPV's - EC, ER, MITB, SSlam, Vengeance, SSeries and TLC were all really good. RR and NOC were OK as well. 

And WM, OTL, CP and HIAC sucked


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

If it weren't for a fantastic Orton vs. Christian match, OTL11 probably would've killed me.

Just looked up the card. Yikes. fpalm


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

2011 was a good year. A lot of people shit on it but I will look back on it fondly as it brought me back as a die hard fan. I watched Raw after Savage passed and Punk came out in the Savage gear and I was back full time after that. 

We just got a new arena and I'm really hoping for a Raw in 2014. Even a B PPV would be badass. Like Battleground or something. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinnacle_Bank_Arena


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The day they do a PPV in Nebraska I'll riot :lol

You'll get some good RAWS though. Where I live all we got was Hardcore Justice and a Smackdown taping. Of course I was out of town for the smackdown taping :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

This is my first experience living in a small market, and I'm pretty bummed I won't be seeing a lot of WWE events unless SummerSlam stays in LA or WrestleMania goes to San Francisco/Santa Clara.

I did live in Vegas for my whole life prior though, and they get at least one TV taping a year


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Living in Vegas sounds fun :lol

I live in a huge tourist area. Shocked we don't have an arena down at the strip(Beach)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> The day they do a PPV in Nebraska I'll riot :lol



In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies 
Judgement Day 2008

Lots of Superstars and Saturday Night Main Events as well. Owen won the IC title from Rock in Omaha in 1997. 

Sting and Ted DiBiase are from Omaha. Don't be shocked if this happens dude. Again, a B PPV. Raw or Smackdown will happen in 2014. Brand new state of the art arena. Iowa is also right next door which is wrestling crazy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies
> Judgement Day 2008
> 
> Lots of Superstars and Saturday Night Main Events as well. Owen won the IC title from Rock in Omaha in 1997.
> ...


Oh wow, never knew you guys got PPVS. I guess I'm just sterotypic


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Oh wow, never knew you guys got PPVS. I guess I'm just sterotypic


We have running water and cable. It's really great haha. 

Over 1 million people between Lincoln and Omaha and they are only an hour from each other and now both have great arenas. 

Yeah the only PPV I've ever been to was IYH Good Friends, Better Enemies. Great card and the last matches for Nash and Hall before they went to WCW and a killer main event in HBK/Diesel. One of my fave matches of 1996.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

PPV of the Year since 95, folks?

Mine would be:

1995: Survivor Series
1996: Survivor Series
1997: IYH Canadian Stampede
1998: WrestleMania 14
1999: IYH Backlash
2000: Royal Rumble (yes, better than Backlash )
2001: WrestleMania 17
2002: SummerSlam
2003: WrestleMania 19
2004: Backlash
2005: Vengeance
2006: No Way Out
2007: Backlash
2008: WrestleMania 24
2009: No Way Out
2010: WrestleMania 26
2011: Money In The Bank
2012: Extreme Rules
2013 so far: SummerSlam


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> PPV of the Year since 95, folks?
> 
> Mine would be:
> 
> ...


I was actually thinking about this a little bit ago. The matches of the year thread in another thread made me think of it. I will for sure make this list later.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

See, why can't we get a good arena? there's 500'00 people in Virginia Beach alone Plus tourists in the summer and another million in the surrounding area but we can't get a good arena?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> See, why can't we get a good arena? there's 500'00 people in Virginia Beach alone Plus tourists in the summer and another million in the surrounding area but we can't get a good arena?


Of course I know where that is. Isn't the Scope close to you guys?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Of course I know where that is. Isn't the Scope close to you guys?


Yes, home of a minor league hockey team :lol

Its a dump TBH

TNA did its hardcore Justice PPV at the ted constant center, which is smaller than the scope.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Yes, home of a minor league hockey team :lol
> 
> Its a dump TBH


I'm a hockey nut so I knew they had an AHL team. Affiliate of the Ducks IIRC.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

smitty915 said:


> See, why can't we get a good arena? there's 500'00 people in Virginia Beach alone Plus tourists in the summer and another million in the surrounding area but we can't get a good arena?


Vegas doesn't even have a good arena either, but Santa Clara is getting Levi's. It really depends on the city.

With that being said, I'd like for WWE to host another PPV in Vegas. It's been long overdue


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I'm a hockey nut so I knew they had an AHL team. Affiliate of the Ducks IIRC.


They are the admirals, no idea what affiliate they are. Also have a AAA baseball team. 

Two famous wrestling Norfolk fun facts. Its home of the DX invasion and it was home to Lou Thesz according to Ric Flair.

New topic: rank every WrestleMania!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Rank every Wrestlemania and every favorite PPV year to year? Looks like I have my project for the evening. 



PGSucks said:


> Vegas doesn't even have a good arena either, but Santa Clara is getting Levi's. It really depends on the city.
> 
> With that being said, I'd like for WWE to host another PPV in Vegas. It's been long overdue



As far as population an arena would do great in Vegas for an NBA or NHL team but you are opening the door for players to get in trouble gambling wise. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> You could tell that about Dolph/Alberto or Cena/Lesnar. Storytelling aside, both are as one-sided as they come. Not saying this compares, but this is pretty much the same case - the brilliant story ups this badly. It was sloppier than expected, yeah, but it's not like it's Punk/Rock in terms of wrestling being bad enough to ruin the good storytelling.
> 
> But who am I kidding, I'm talking to the guy whose opinion is that BookDust/Un-Americans is a Top 10 SummerSlam match ever (opinions are opinions but that one is more than curious) :hayley2


That tag parts the sea of life. Holy beacon.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Can't believe you like the DX/RKO tag. I've watched it twice and it's just... boring.


:davos

Still seriously surprised at how much I dug it. I should watch it again.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I've basically accepted that Vegas isn't gonna get a major sports team because of the gambling and the fact that it's definitely a tourist-driven city. However, I still want a new arena so that we can get a WrestleMania 

I mean, it's a really fun city (especially if you're over 21), the hotels are amazing, and I don't want people to associate Vegas with WM9 anymore. unk3


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Rank every Wrestlemania and every favorite PPV year to year? Looks like I have my project for the evening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There have been whispers of an oceanfront arena here, but I don't think taxpayers are backing it. We were one of the rumored cities that the kings would relocate to.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> There have been whispers of an oceanfront arena here, but I don't think taxpayers are backing it. We were one of the rumored cities that the kings would relocate to.


 
Yep I remember they were in on the Kings. As was Omaha and KC (who both use to share the Kings oddly enough) that entire Kings saga is a mess.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fuck all your stupid citys, Its New York City or bust, Cody I swear I think I saw Hayley William today, no joke looked just like her

feeling like watching some hunter for some reason


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Vegas was in the running for the Kings for a while because of those Maloof fuckers, but it never happened.

I'm actually pretty depressed that Reno isn't exactly a wrestling hotbed. They got a house show last October at the University's events center, but nothing this year 

I'm gonna go watch Vengeance 2005 now.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Yep I remember they were in on the Kings. As was Omaha and KC (who both use to share the Kings oddly enough) that entire Kings saga is a mess.


I think Seattle's getting them

Watching WM 22 right now, card looks bad TBH, heard that the WHC match gets only 10 minutes


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Tahoe is gorgeous. I went to a wedding there a few years ago and did not want to leave. Something could work there. Maybe NHL? 

One of my best friends went to school at U of Nevada. Knows Colin Kaepernick pretty well. Total man crush on that kid.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The triple threat at Mania 22 is SPOTZ~! Could've been something good if they got more time and paced better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I've basically accepted that Vegas isn't gonna get a major sports team because of the gambling and the fact that it's definitely a tourist-driven city. However, I still want a new arena so that we can get a WrestleMania
> 
> I mean, it's a really fun city (especially if you're over 21), the hotels are amazing, and I don't want people to associate Vegas with WM9 anymore. unk3


Vegas was a great place when I was there for a day. I'm sure a Wrestlemania there would be awesome.

Nevada in general really appeals to me. Specially the deserts around Area 51.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I like the wm 22 triple threat tbh, fun little match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Fuck all your stupid citys, Its New York City or bust, Cody I swear I think I saw Hayley William today, no joke looked just like her
> 
> feeling like watching some hunter for some reason


:|

Velma Kelly hair in tact?

------------

Random plug: Matt Hardy vs Chuck Palumbo 4/11/08 is really good people. Chuck Palumbo's '08 is chock-full of goodies.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> :|
> 
> Velma Kelly hair in tact?
> 
> ...


Dude I pretty sure, it was actually my gf that pointed her out, she had a hat on and trendy sunglasses but I'm pretty sure

I'll check that palumbo match out


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Either you lucked out in the best way or saw the most glamorous look-a-like the world has to offer.

Oh sweet. Totally forgot I was on the smackdown with the Batista vs Morrison match I mentioned yesterday. I remember having a blast watching this edition back when it aired. Hope it holds up.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hows Mania 22 in general? If its a waste I might just skip it and go to something else


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 22 is a tremendously fun PPV. Might not be the best but it's certainly one of the easiest to sit through for pure fun. Has the best female match in WWE history, an awesome hardcore match, good US title match, good main event and a bunch of fun matches too. Shame it also features probably the worst MITB match ever. Or at least the worst from WM, anyway.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Your re watching wwe circa 08 ayy ? Did you re watch the masterpiece that is flair/hbk wm 24 yet ? I could care less about that "I love you" at the end I love that match and on of the favs

There was actually one camera guy there taking pics so I think I was blessed with her presence :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Hows Mania 22 in general? If its a waste I might just skip it and go to something else


Rock solid. Pretty much everything on the card is very fun, even if some are less than good. A lot of good like Cena/Trips, HBK/Vince, Trish/Mickie, MITB, Benoit/JBL, the Triple Threat, the opener and of course Edge/Foley. Even the DUD's, Boogeyman/Booker and Torrie/Candice, are very fun for what they were.

Have you ever had a feeling of being desperate for a Goddamn movie? I had/have the No Mercy 2006 DVD and my girlfriend and I wanted to watch it (again) - turns out now I lost the motherfucking CD


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> WM 22 is a tremendously fun PPV. Might not be the best but it's certainly one of the easiest to sit through for pure fun. Has the best female match in WWE history, an awesome hardcore match, good US title match, good main event and a bunch of fun matches too. Shame it also features probably the worst MITB match ever. Or at least the worst from WM, anyway.


Oh wow I had high hopes for it knowing RVD wins....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ha, "high hopes" and RVD. I get it! 

The winner of a match should never determine how good or bad something is though. And I don't see how RVD winning anything would give you high hopes for anything being good .

The PPV I'm watching just took a turn for the worst. Dull match, and it's the semi-main event too :|.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HA! Thank motherfucking goodness that Dailymotion has the full show. Now me and my girl can sit down (and potentially do stuff) at the mercy of the greatness of Chris Benoit and William Regal.

I WILL NEVER TIRE PLUGGING THAT FUCKER. Benoit/Regal NM '06. WATCH WATCH WATCH.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, I'm a huge RVD mark so..

Still on the first match as I'm only watching it every few minutes between doing homework


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I dont get why people rip on HBK/Flair WM 24 for the "I Love You" ending. HBK was rasslin his idol in his "last" match. Of course he was going to be emotional. I thought that match was great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't realise people ripped on the match for that lol. Though as I say, I rarely venture into other threads in the WWE section because... well they are filled with shit like that .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Your re watching wwe circa 08 ayy ? Did you re watch the masterpiece that is flair/hbk wm 24 yet ? I could care less about that "I love you" at the end I love that match and on of the favs
> 
> There was actually one camera guy there taking pics so I think I was blessed with her presence :lol


I skipped over WM to jump ahead on the Backlash build. Seen it a ton so I could afford that piece. I'll watch it soon though just b/c I "should" for project's sake. If only Umaga vs Batista didn't suck the PPV would arguably be flawless in where everything should have been when you think about it. That mentality sort of just now hit me. And I'm not even that big on the ladder match except for the laddersault + Punker winning. Almost everything that should have been at least good, was.



Callamus said:


> WM 22 is a tremendously fun PPV. Might not be the best but it's certainly one of the easiest to sit through for pure fun. Has the best female match in WWE history, an awesome hardcore match, good US title match, *good main event* and a bunch of fun matches too. Shame it also features probably the *worst MITB match ever.* Or at least the worst from WM, anyway.


C'mon, Cal.

Not to mention Blaze vs Nakano from RAW '95 > the women's match from 22.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

whoever says anything negative about HBK/Flair is a dumbass....

I think I had that match at *****, only seen it once though...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> C'mon, Cal.
> 
> Not to mention Blaze vs Nakano from RAW '95 > the women's match from 22.


Pfft. Trish & Mickie had 2 PPV matches better than that. And yeah, WM 22 MITB is the worst WM MITB match and likely still "holds up" as one of the very worst overall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Pfft. Trish & Mickie had 2 PPV matches better than that. And yeah, WM 22 MITB is the worst WM MITB match and likely still "holds up" as one of the very worst overall.


By 2 I suppose you mean NYR '06. Which is great imo too. Such a shame Backlash underdelievered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Pfft. Trish & Mickie had 2 PPV matches better than that. And yeah, WM 22 MITB is the worst WM MITB match and likely still "holds up" as one of the very worst overall.


Nice botched ending at WM huh. BEING LESBIANS DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER.

Still never saw that ladder match as being the worst. It demolishes 23 _(which is wayyyyy too long)_ & 25 _(which isn't any good for the majority)_. And I'll take it over 24 which is unusually overrated by most.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^23 is my favorite MITB match of all time. 25 sucks, 24 is really good, and 21 is awesome. Haven't seen 26 because I plan on watching the whole PPV soon

The WHC MITB 2010 match and the One where Cena wins are terrible. Kane's cash in the worst too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Nice botched ending at WM huh. BEING LESBIANS DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER.
> 
> Still never saw that ladder match as being the worst. It demolishes 23 _(which is wayyyyy too long)_ & 25 _(which isn't any good for the majority)_. And I'll take it over 24 which is unusually overrated by most.


But if it were Hayley & Lauren/Gaga it would've, right? 8*D Let yourself fall in temptation Goddammit :vince

Tbh, y'all overlook 26 as the worst WM MITB, and imo only 2nd to Raw 2012 as the worst. 10 people was ambicious but rubbish *insert Jeremy Clarkson smiley*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Nice botched ending at WM huh. BEING LESBIANS DOESN'T MAKE IT BETTER.
> 
> Still never saw that ladder match as being the worst. It demolishes 23 _(which is wayyyyy too long)_ & 25 _(which isn't any good for the majority)_. And I'll take it over 24 which is unusually overrated by most.


Being lesbians makes EVERYTHING better. And the WM 22 DVD removes any "botches" from the match . That and the "botch" actually plays perfectly into the match anyway SO FUCK YOU BITCH.

23 ain't that good but it's still better than 22. 24 is most definitely overrated but better than 22. 25 is absolutely better thn 22. Same for 26. Ain't nothing much good from 22 other than old man Flair taking crazy ladder bumps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Both 2010 MITB ones are fabulous. 2012 WWE Championship one isn't even bad. Another that's unusually hated and it's only b/c Cena wins. The WWE Championship one from 2011 is pretty bleh. Botches are filled throughout that edition.

Kane's cash-in was probably like the best one too. Same night, baby. All win.

How are we not mentioning this year's WWE Championship ladder match? 26 minutes and it really wasn't anything anyone needs to see again.

---------

Cal the WM 25 one is so god damn flat. Henry has his awesome spot on Kofi and that's like all that happens.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I actually liked this year's WWE title MITB. I liked the WHC one more though.

WM26 is definitely the worst Mania MITB match to me. Not a big fan of the WWE title one from 2011 either.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Worst MITB for me is definitely the one we just got last month, but I'll be rewatching soon. Don't like 26 as it loaded with botches, same goes for the Smackdown one in 2012. The one Ziggler won. I have no problems with 23 and 25.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah 2012 World Championship match is bad except for when Tensai chucks Dolph. It's a bleh match overall but has the coolest moment in MITB history. Go figure.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Since we're on the subject, I still believe that the first MITB at Mania 21 was definitely the best


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WWE 2012 wasn't bad at all, yeah. But you have to admit - that "ending" kinda sucked.

One we should talk about is WHC 2011. Jesus that was pure insanity.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, it's universal that the original is the best. It's perfection, really.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The worst MITB is one from 2012 or WM25. WM21 is easily the best.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mania 21 and the Smackdown one from 2011 (D-Bry) are the only two MITB matches I still have over the **** mark. I will say I've never seen the Smackdown one from 2010 though and haven't seen 22 or 24 since they aired. This year's World Title one was excellent too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Unforgiven 2000*

Was gonna watch JD 00 but couldn't be arsed to get off my arse and get the DVD, so this will do since it's on my PC.


*The Dudley Boys & APA Vs Right to Censor*

They show a video before the match to explain why this match is happening. Also includes the APA dancing with 2 Cool. Bradshaw attempts a Spinaroonie. My eyes bleed. And yet it was awesome.

Anyone else kinda miss Bull Buchanan? He was a big guy who could really move and actually looked to have some talent. If only he came around 5 years later we could have gotten Bull Vs Undertaker over on SD instead of fucking Luther Reigns or some shit. Could give the Heidenrape matches some competition. Alas such a thing never happened and could never happen as I'd have better things to do should I ever invent that time machine. Any day now I swear!

RTC should reform in WWE right now. They could come out every week and fuck shit up any time they think someone is doing something non-PG. Epic heat.

Damn this match is filled with a bunch of rough and tough bastards who enjoy pummelling each other and hitting as many back suplexes as possible. And Steven Richards too of course. Val too maybe, but he's more rough and tough than fucking Stevie. Fuck Steve btw. Fuck him to hell. I hate that name. Big Bald Bastard Steve. My now former boss was called Steve. I wanna put him through a table.

Superkick by Steven Cunt and Val gets the win for his team, but everyone keeps fighting anyway and Steven Cunt gets the fuck beaten out of him (I swear Bradshaw stiffs the ever loving fuck out of him with a punch to the face and then a kick to the back lol) and then powerbombed through a table.

Match is short and fun. No STF or any of that nonsense, just 8 men brawling.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


HHH is backstage with his main squeeze telling her how he's gonna destroy Kurt Angle tonight. Stephanie says she's sorry she ever defended Kurt and shit. Next month she manages him when he becomes the WWF Champion. Lying bitch.


*Jerry "The King" Lawler Vs Tazz - Leather Strap Match*

JR trash talking Tazz is probably the best part of this match. "YOU'RE WRESTLING LAWLER, NOT ME, YOU'RE WRESTLING LAWLER IN A STRAP MATCH YOU IDIOT!" :lmao

Fans are weird for this match. PPV is in Philly so obviously they have that Pro-ECW guys shit going on, but Tazz is supposed to be the heel and Lawler the face, and they don't really seem to know what to do lol.

Tazz no sells the Piledriver. Twice. Gets up after the third one too but falls down. What? How did Lawler agree to do that spot lol.

RAVEN! Huge pop for Raven screwing the babyface lol.

Another short but fun match. JR was the MVP of it lol. 

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Austin arrives backstage. Tells Kevin Kelly that tonight HE'S asking the questions. Then doesn't ask any questions but throws KK into the wall.


*Steve Blackman Vs Al Snow Vs Crash Holly Vs Perry Saturn Vs Test Vs Funaki - Hardcore Championship Invitational Match*

Al Snow :lmao. As the Europeans champion he's decided to represent a different European country every match. Tonight he's Italy. DEAD FISH. Al Snow's career sleeps with the fishes.

Similar to WM 2000 hardcore match, except only 10 minutes this time around and fewer people. No Mean Street Posse or Viscera already makes this shit in comparison.

SATURN JUST GAVE TRISH HEAD. AND NOW TEST GAVE TERRI HEAD. AND NOW AL HAS HEAD. Why is everyone getting head but me? 

Speaking of head, I think Crash's just got broken. Hurricanrana from the ropes was supposed to either actually happen or be reversed into a powerbomb. Neither quite happen and Crash crashes head first into the mat. Poor guy.

:lmao the camera cuts in this are hilarious. One second Al Snow has a fucking butterfly net or something going after Crash... then it switches to someone else and when we come back to them, Al is using a steel chair instead. Few moments later and... Al is holding his eyes and fuck knows why.

You know how WWE have *insert weapon here* matches? Well I want a trash can lid match. Those things sound AMAZING and you can really fucking go all out hitting someone in the head without hurting them too much. Perfect PG gimmick match.

:lmao Test sells a shot to the head from a fucking PIZZA BOX. 

Blackman was awesome. Give him a big stick and plenty of people to take shots and I :mark: like fuck. He made the fucking Hardcore title CREDIBLE during his reign. Something that the title never had the moment Foley lost it the first time. 

With 30 seconds left Blackman regains the belt (Crash got it first, then Saturn), and with everyone trying to win nobody will let anyone else get a pin so Blackman is able to survive. FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN.

So this match was fun and stuff. Love me some WWF 2000 Hardcore Title Matches.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


KURT ANGLE AND STEVE AUSTIN FIRST EVER BACKSTAGE SEGMENT :mark:. Austin's isn't as big as Kurt's. So Austin is gonna store his inside Kurt's ass.

HE'S TALKING ABOUT GOLD MEDALS. Perverts.


*X-Pac Vs Chris Jericho*

Oh man, the video package showing X-Pac attacking Jericho is awesome. X-Pac fucking DECKS Jericho RIGHT IN THE FACE with some nunchucks. I mean fucking BAM. BAM IN THE FACE. Looked amazingly brutal. Mr Paddy used to think nunchucks were made up :lmao.

Oh man, Jericho is fucking PISSED to start the match off, so he gets in the ring like a house on fire (which is apparently pissed off and dying to get hold of someone to beat them up) and... HEADLOCK! :lmao

Ok so the headlock was more a case of just trying to fucking catch and hold on to the quick little X-Pac bastard so he could pummel his face in.

So this is like, really fucking good. Lots of old fashioned HATE~! with both men trying to kill each other within the limitations of a basic one on one match. Hell even a sleep hold by X-Pac at one point looks deadly lol. 

X-Factor gets a rather splendid near fall, and even the referee falls on his arse out of pure shock that the match didn't end lol!!! In the end Jericho is the winner, but he's still in a bad mood. Then he's nearly murdered when X-Pac smacks him in the back of the head with the nunchucks LOL. Don't remember this match being so good!

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


COMMISSIONER FOLEY AND KURT ANGLE BACKSTAGE SEGMENT :mark:. Kurt reveals he has the shits at the Olympics. We don't hear about that too often do we? It's always the "BROKEN FREAKIN' NECK" crap. Well I want more "BURNING FUCKIN' HOLE".

Urgh, Rock and Austin segment. SAVED BY JOE!!! Joe who, you ask? Just Joe. He's a sorry son of a bitch. So Austin kills him. Someone has anger management problems.


*Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys - Steel Cage Tag Team Championship Match*

Another match like the previous one where everyone fucking hates each other and... THEY SHOW THE HATE IN THE MATCH. RIGHT FROM THE START. How often these days do we get people who hate each other going out and doing fancy moves and reversals instead of, oh I don't know, KILLING EACH OTHER? Can you imagine Punk/Lesnar from SummerSlam being a pure wrestling match? :lmao

E&C get fucking murdered right from the start and just can't get anything going, until Jeff's insane mind causes him to go for a Swanton off the top of the cage early on, allowing Edge to push him off to the floor! Jeff has been eliminated from the match and now this is a handicap match! Good strategy by E&C, even if Matt Hardy proceeds to murder them single handedly for the first few minutes :lmao.

I like (aka fucking hate) how Jeff just stands around on the outside watching Jeff get beat down. Uhhh... NO DQ, Jeff? GET BACK IN YOU TWAT. 

He finally attempts to climb back in, but E&C find ways to smash him back to the floor. Good shizzle. Jeff takes a bunch of insane bumps despite now being OUTSIDE of the cage lol. 

Jeff attacks the ref on the outside who has the key to the cage door, and throws a chair into the ring... only for E&C to get it and smash the cage door into his face then find a new chain and padlock to lock the door again. WELL DONE JEFF :lmao.

Matt takes a heluva beating in the cage, bleeds some too. E&C do a real sweet job mauling him. Loved the Poetry in Motion while mat was against the cage. His face gets SMASHED into the cage legit.

A comeback from Matt, and a ladder from Jeff help the Hardy's get back into the match, and holy fuck, we get what might be Jeff's best high risk bump thingy ever when he LITA IS HERE!!! FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP!!! She climbs the cage and gives Christian a fucking hurricanrana off the ladder to the floor! 

:lmao Edge launches a chair right into Jeff's face and I don't think he quite managed to get his hands up in time. Great stuff. Speaking of great stuff, LITA . And the finish too. E&C "get theirs" and the Hardy Boys pick up the win and the tag belts, getting some redemption for all the shit E&C have put them through for the majority of the year. Excellent match.

JR: "AND YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE IT TO LITA". Oh I'd love to, Jim. I really fucking would. DAMN YOU CM PUNK! AND EDGE! AND MATT HARDY! AND PROBABLY A "FEW" OTHERS. LITA IS A WHORE. I still want her .

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


Steve Austin shows up looking for HHH and finds Stephanie. She has the hat he wore when he got ran over. Austin is sarcastically happy.

COMMISSIONER FOLEY AGAIN :mark:. HHH tells him he's gonna destroy Angle. They mock how he cried at the Olympics. Foley doesn't care what happens in the match since it's no DQ.

Michael Cole had replaces Lawler on commentary after his strap match. Apparently he was doing so bad they got Lawler back out lol. No wonder Cole turned heel. Took him a while, but still .


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Rikishi - Intercontinental Championship Match*

"EDDIE JUST SPRAYED SOMETHING IN RIKISHI'S FACE!!!"

Eddie trying to break into the Playboy Mansion was hilarious. I don't blame him either. BURN THOSE NUDES.

:lmao the video package makes Chyna look retarded. Eddie was making her entire life miserable for ages, but once he popped the question she says yes (while CRYING) and everything is fucking hunky and dory. Women and rings. Whores.

JR trying to sell us Chyna's Playboy issue just doesn't work. For starters, it's Chyna naked. Secondly it's JIM ROSS telling us how sexy it is. I'd struggle to keep it up even if it was LITA (FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP) in Playboy with JR talking about it .

Pretty certain the video package for this match (which focuses very little on Eddie/Rikishi) takes up about 10 sodding minutes.

:lmao at how Eddie reacts to nearly getting crushed by Rikishi's ass. IT NEARLY KILLED ME!

He tries to leave but Chyna pushes him back to the ring and throws him back to Rikishi. What a bitch. He buys her a ring and she wants to see him squashed by a fatty. Then she drags Eddie out of the ring to avoid a stinkface. MAKE YO MIND UP BIACH.

THE NEVER ENDING CRACK.

Rikishi's head pretty much breaks the steel steps.

Match is pretty much an Eddie squash match... where Eddie gets squashed by Rikishi. Then Rikishi beats up a women (well, Chyna, but you get the point).

Strange match, but was all to put over the Eddie/Chyna break up angle. I dunno, I think I kinda liked it all tbh lol. No wonder the video package before hand was so long, it had to be to explain what was happening and so you would understand the match. Whole thing probably shouldn't have been as long but hey, it's Eddie being a hilarious prick so I'll let it pass .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Undertaker is gonna take everyone on a ride tonight but they ain't gonna like it.

Kurt Angle is breaking down backstage. Trish and her tits show up, and Kurt runs away. LOL.


*Kurt Angle Vs Triple H - Special Referee Mick Foley - No DQ Match*

WWF 2000 was just so damn fun, especially during the summer and this feud was a huge part of it.

Angle burriez HHH with his own Sledgehammer AND makes out with Stephanie? Lucky cunt.

Kurt Angle's brilliant idea to make up to Stephanie after sexually assaulting her (possibly multiple times, we never did find out what happened after SummerSlam...) is to sing Happy Birthday to her. Never worked for me and doesn't work for Kurt.

Lawler: "Hey Foley, I know it's No DQ, but does that mean anything goes?"

Some fun brawling early on. Angle goes after the injured ribs, HHH fires back with punches that don't look quite as bad as usual. Then Angle catches HHH with an overhead belly to belly and THE GAME is fucked. Foley nearly gets into a fight with Angle giving HHH some time to breath... until he gets another suplex from Angle .

The brawling gets progressively worse as things go on, and we also get some hilarious miss-timed spots. HHH attempts a swinging neck breaker but Kurt just keeps on running the ropes :lmao.

They do a nice little callback thingymajig with HHH going for a Pedigree on the announce table, as he did it at SS and it knocked Angle legit out. This time though Angle counters and hits an overhead belly to belly :mark:. Angle does it so he doesn't fall back as it would probably kill him, but in the process he loses his balance and nearly crushes HHH's head with his foot as he falls off the other table . And that was after HHH slipped and fell on Kurt after taking a low blow (which is how Angle countered the attempted Pedigree). :lmao

This whole thing just turns DULL. Reaally fucking dull. Time passes and I couldn't tell you a damn thing that happens until Angle went for the Moonsault. :lmao at Stephanie's low blow to Kurt. Pedigree and HHH wins. Stephanie looks conflicted. She helped her HUSBAND win a match against the guy who MIGHT HAVE RAPED HER and she isn't sure if she did the right thing. Fucking women, man. LITA (FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP) is the only one who isn't insane on this show. Except for the insane bump she took, but she did that for her tag team with no conflicted feelings and shit.

Horrible match overall.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


SHANE MCMAHON! He claims he has video footage of who ran over Steve Austin! He shows footage of Blackman running over Ken Shamrock. Which somehow proves Blackman did it. Shane is just racist.

STUNNER TO BLACKMAN. STUNNER TO SHANE WHO SPIRTS OUT BEER. Fun segment.

Rock cuts a promo. Something about nipples and funny feelings.


*The Undertaker Vs The Rock Vs Kane Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Championship Match*

I don't recall this match being anything special whatsoever, but I DO recall getting a bunch of good TV matches out of it with all the guys facing each other on a couple of occasions and shit. Rock/Kane in particular having a handful of really good matches. And of course we also got 2 Undertaker/Benoit matches on TV out of it too, though Undertaker wasn't up to really giving us anything special at the time .

Loved me some American Bad Ass theme song for 'Taker at this time. Better than Rollin'. Not as good as YOU'RE GONNA PAY, YOU'RE GONNA PAY, THERE'S NO FORGIVENESS THIS TIME.

Anyone remember that Benoit guy? Apparently he was pretty good. But he got released in 07 and left on such bad terms WWE prefer not to mention him.

Typical 4 way match. Everyone spends time with everyone at some point and it's just one massive brawl usually with 2 guys in the ring and 2 on the floor. Ref gets taken out and Undertaker, the BABYFACE, brings in a chair and cracks Rock in the head . Then Benoit does the same to Undertaker and WINS THE WWF TITLE!!!!!!!! BENOIT IS CHAMP! BENOIT IS CHAMPION!

Then Foley comes out and ruins the whole thing because Undertaker's foot was on the ropes. I wish they'd make up their minds with the instant reply lol. Sometimes they'll do it, other times they'll ignore the shit out of it .

Bit with Benoit turning around and seeing the other 3 guys in a line waiting to beat the fuck out of him was awesome.

Match actually really picks up following the false Benoit finish. Everyone gets more intense and really lay it in to each other. Then of course they go into a nice finishing stretch featuring Rock attempting a Crossface, Rock bleeding, big chokeslame from Kane to Undertaker, Benoit breaking up a People's Elbow , HUGE Last Ride to The Rock and more!

Benoit is pretty outstanding throughout this whole thing. Him almost winning was great, how he reacts to not winning is great, and he's just a fucking beast at times, really taking the fight to everyone and almost winning again a couple more times. Shame he's the one that takes the pin. Finish is a little dumb though; Kane actually prevents Undertaker from breaking up the pin. Aside from that this is pretty good. A lot better than I remembered.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 15*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB 2010's two :mark:

That's why that MITB is such a brilliant show. Both ladder matches were actually worth seeing. All other years it's only been one or the other.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Both of 2010's were awesome. I'd say every year since then, the SD one has been superior, although 2012's RAW match wasn't as bad as some say it is.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE Championship MITB > World Championship MITB in 2012. 2011 & 2013 it's back to World being immensely superior.

Cal crapping on Angle vs Triple H = :hb


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2010 raw was awesome, watched it the other day, the whc one sucks though IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Giant ladder makes it a MOTYC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Need to see mitb 2010, I swear Ive said I gonan watch like 6 things and havent one

all of those suck tbh, I prefer sd 2013 over all


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mitb sucked besides the two matches, I didn't like the whc one but it's still ***.

Cena/sheamus and mysterio/swagger suck IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Let's stop talking about MITB and talk now about *Scott Steiner*.

Because you're worth it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

all those matches are fantastic brotha, need to watch the actual mitbs


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I need some good matches to watch that can be found on YouTube (I got the YouTube thingy mabober on my tv so I can watch YouTube shtuff on my tv).

I just watched Jericho vs Michaels Judgement Day 2008. I can say with complete confidence that this match is the best of their entire 2008 series. It just seems like they figured everything out, from the pacing, to the psychology, to cutting out the sloppiness, etc. for this one. GAB and No Mercy were filled with nonsensical moves and sloppy work, this match far exceeded those. If you weren't a fan of their other matches from around this time, check this one out as its truly fabulous. 

Jericho finds the right balance as a heel without seeming too hokey, and his control segments don't seem to drag like the other matches. 

I need some new stuff, I just plowed through the entire Rey set in one weekend (so worth it, my second favorite set ever behind Foleys hits and misses). If anyone wants to see a cool ass match they might not have heard of, check out Rey vs Blitzkrieg from Nitro 1999. Pure excellence.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think MITB 2010 needs a rewatch because everyone is disagreeing with me :lol

Just finished the first match of WM 22, bleh, dumb tag match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

WM 22 is a lot of fun imo.

Also, the SD MITB match from the 2010 show is one of the best MITB ladder matches of all time imo. Probably the only MITB match that really has a little added touch of psychology to it. Big Show is the star of the match.


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

WrestleMania 21 had the best MITB match. Think we can all agree on that, because that one's just a classic! Ah, the very first MITB in history that was such a cool concept at the time invented by one Jericho. Great performers and top-notch spots in just one match. Benoit hitting the Diving Headbutt from the top of the ladder to Kane, Bejamin hitting the clothesline to Jericho off the ladder, Benjamin hitting the T-Bone Suplex to Edge off the ladder, Kane throwing Christian off the ladder, etc. Still a huge mark for it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think Mania 21's undercard was the best undercard ever. if Cena/JBL and HHH/Batista delieved it could of been one of the best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Big Show & Kane tag team was gold in '06. WM 22 opener is a blast.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Big Show & Kane tag team was gold in '06. WM 22 opener is a blast.


Damn, I am off tonight, thought it was a little boring TBH. Well, whatever :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I got netlfix again, what is on here that's good, havent had it in awhile


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Damn, I am off tonight, thought it was a little boring TBH. Well, whatever :lol


As long as Cena vs Trips is acknowledged as bad, everything will be right.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> As long as Cena vs Trips is acknowledged as bad, everything will be right.


(Y)(Y)(Y)

On the MITB match now, not TOO bad, not as good as some though, just saw Flair get taken out


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I got netlfix again, what is on here that's good, havent had it in awhile


Best of Clash of champions sounds good, Rock and taker sets are ok, Best of RAW and SD 2011 and 2012 is quite good, top 100 moments in RAW history is awesome as well. Streak DVD with all steak matches up to WM 28


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> I think Mania 21's undercard was the best undercard ever.


It was good but tough to top Summerslam 2002...

Rey v Angle

Flair v Jericho

Eddie v Edge

RVD v Pegasus

HBK v HHH


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> It was good but tough to top Summerslam 2002...
> 
> Rey v Angle
> 
> ...


I meant in Mania history, my bad. Summerslam 02 is the GOAT undercard by far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I need some good matches to watch that can be found on YouTube (I got the YouTube thingy mabober on my tv so I can watch YouTube shtuff on my tv).
> 
> I just watched Jericho vs Michaels Judgement Day 2008. I can say with complete confidence that this match is the best of their entire 2008 series. It just seems like they figured everything out, from the pacing, to the psychology, to cutting out the sloppiness, etc. for this one. GAB and No Mercy were filled with nonsensical moves and sloppy work, this match far exceeded those. If you weren't a fan of their other matches from around this time, check this one out as its truly fabulous.
> 
> Jericho finds the right balance as a heel without seeming too hokey, and his control segments don't seem to drag like the other matches.


:clap

_*Now waits for Cody to get to May so he too can realize JD '08 is an incredible match*_

Random recommendation: Night of Champions '08. I recall highly enjoying both Edge/Batista & Cena/HHH.



redskins25 said:


> I got netlfix again, what is on here that's good, havent had it in awhile


Falls Count Anywhere was a fun set to sit through. Has a few gems thrown in here and there, just for the love of god STAY AWAY from the Uncensored '96 tag match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> I meant in Mania history, my bad. Summerslam 02 is the GOAT undercard by far.


It was good. WM 17 was stellar too.

Jericho v Regal 
Kane v Raven v Big Show
Eddie G v Test 
Angle v Pegasus/That One Guy
Shane v Vince
TLC 3
Gimmick Battle Royal
Taker/Trips


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Does Undercard really mean every match but the ME? I think the semi ME should not be classified as Undercard.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Does Undercard really mean every match but the ME? I think the semi ME should not be classified as Undercard.


I was just thinking the same thing. Hard to say. I mean HBK/HHH was just as big a deal as any match at Summerslam 2002.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. Yeah I was thinkin the same thing. I'd consider the undercard to be no more than the first 4 matches.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Does Undercard really mean every match but the ME? I think the semi ME should not be classified as Undercard.


I consider undercard the matches that are not built as the big deal main events.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I consider undercard the matches that are not built as the big deal main events.


Pretty much this,Lesnar/Punk went on in the middle of the show and was billed as the second ME


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've got a new Top 5 favorite match! I'd like to give props to Mr. WOOLCOCK for pointing this match out to me a few weeks ago, I just got around to watching it.

Wild Pegasus vs Black Tiger 1996 Super J Cup Semis

Dear lord, these two just put on one of the finest examples of professional wrestling I have ever seen. This match is truly flawless. They built the match in the old Buddy Rodgers style of grabbing a hold, working high spots around it, grabbing a hold, working more spots, then going into an epic climax for the last 5 minutes into thef finish. Buddy Rodgers himself couldn't have done it any better than these two. Every time Pegasus sinks that sleeper on Tiger, you start begging for Eddie to find a way out of it. Even though Black Tiger is supposed to be a heel, this was on the surface a total BABYFACE match (I'm not 100% familiar with the Japanese style so I could be wrong about this). These two trade holds with a fluidity you will never see surpassed, every move has a purpose and all the spots make perfect sense within he context of the match. The last 5 minutes of this 22-24 minute bout includes some of the slickest counters and devastating finishers you will see in a ring, the false finishes litterally had me jumping out of my seat each time. Watching this match almost made me sad in a way because it made me realize that I'll never see a match like this in the WWE ever again (too large a variety of moves, WWE trims a guys move set by a lot). I'm not saying WWE will never have a match BETTER than this, just that you'll never see a match worked at this pace with this variety of moves there. By the time Eddie super plexes Pegasus and catches the 1-2-3, I was almost out of breath.

This match is the best these two ever had with each other, and without a doubt in the Top 5 for both of their careers (IMHO). What a fiucking match. In other words, I give it "The Full 5".


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Like I said in another thread....some of Pegasus's best work is as Pegasus


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Eddie's from the Best of the Super Juniors, not the J-Cup.  Yeah believe it or not they aren't the same thing.  J-Cup's only run in 94, 95, 00, 04 and 09, BOSJ is annual.

And I do think there is at the very least a small case for Benoit/Eddie being better than every WWE match ever. I wouldn't say it is, but I think the case could be made.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I ordered the Hard Knocks dvd. Pretty excited about it only $16 on amazon. Also ordered the Macho Madness Coliseum Video vhs (which I will put on DVD) with the Savage/DiBiase match from Wrestlefest 88 I was tired of not having on DVD. Also for Summerslam 2011 for like $3. Good times. Cool story I know.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Topic earlier to name your fave PPV every year. I will go....

1987- Wrestlemania 3
1988- Wrestlemania 4 (screw you haters I love it)
1989- Starrcade
1990- Survivor Series
1991- Starrcade (maybe the coolest concept for a PPV ever) 
1992- Summerslam
1993- Royal Rumble (See Wrestlemania 4) 
1994- Wrestlemania 10
1995- World War 3
1996- Survivor Series (Very underrated PPV)
1997- In Your House (Canadian Stampede) 
1998- Survivor Series (love it and all its clusterfuckiness)
1999- Royal Rumble (maybe the worst year for PPVs ever)
2000- Backlash 
2001- Wrestlemania 17
2002- Summerslam 
2003- Wrestlemania 19
2004- Wrestlemania 20
2005- Vengeance 
2006- No Way Out
2007- Royal Rumble (another crappy year for PPVs)
2008- Wrestlemania 24
2009- Backlash 
2010- Night of Champions 
2011- Money in the Bank
2012- Extreme Rules 
2013- Summerslam (so far)


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Ratings for Backlash 2003*

Los Guerreros vs Team Angle- ★★★
Sean O'Haire vs Rikishi- ★3/4
Kane & RVD vs The Dudleyz- ★★1/2
Trish Stratus vs Jazz- ★★
Rey Mysterio vs The Big Show- *N/A*
Brock Lesnar vs John Cena- ★★★1/2
Triple H/Ric Flair/Chris Jericho vs Kevin Nash/Shawn Michaels/Booker T- ★★1/4
The Rock vs Goldberg- ★

Terrible PPV outside of the WWE title match and the Los Guerreros/Team Angle tag match. The Show/Mysterio match while too short to grade is fun for what it was. It would have been even more better if it was given more time.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Backlash 2003 should've been the show where WWE pulled the trigger on HBK vs. The Rock. Have Goldberg wrestle some other heel (Jericho?) and let the Dream Match happen! :rock :hbk2


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I've always wanted to see at least one Rock/HBK encounter in 2003 which we were close to seeing. I remember pushing for a Rock/HBK match at WrestleMania 20 when The Rock was scheduled to return leading up to the PPV in 2004. Such a shame it never happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> (Y)(Y)(Y)
> 
> On the MITB match now, not TOO bad, not as good as some though, just saw Flair get taken out


Considering this was a while ago, you know he returns to make everything right with the world. Idk, I've always loved the hell out of that match. It's a sprint of a ladder match - cut a lot of the filler. I'm a big fan. That's just me.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> :clap
> 
> _*Now waits for Cody to get to May so he too can realize JD '08 is an incredible match*_
> 
> Random recommendation: Night of Champions '08. I recall highly enjoying both Edge/Batista & Cena/HHH.


Hey I'm only two smackdown's behind (I decided to take a day off from the project) and I'll get on it soon. Perhaps even in a few hours if I don't pass out. I'm excited to watch after all the praise the match has gotten. Cena vs JBL got nothing but negatives but I dug that, so this is looking good. 

Night of Champions '08 didn't hold up for me, sadly. I watched it out of order and I only ended up liking the first three matches & the "segment/match" that was number four. Rest of the show was a miss. Jericho vs Kofi was horrible & the double main event fell flat.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Heard talk about best PPV undercard ever. SummerSlam 2002? BITCH PLEASE:










Sure, the whole show is just four matches but I don't care. Taker/Vader was the worst match of the card at ***1/4-1/2. Shit's not right with this show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Actually New Blackjacks Vs The Godwins was the worst match on the show at * . Though that was a pre-show match, so the next worst was HHH/Mankind at *** .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Mankind I have at ***3/4. Awesome, awesome brawl imo.

What about the best double Main Event in Mania history? Imo, gotta have to be WM 14 (Shawn/Austin and Taker/Kane).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 14 wouldn't even come close for me since personally I don't see HBK Vs Austin as being anything else other than sucky .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well what would be it for ya then?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea, I can't remember the order of matches on a PPV . Tried to think of a couple but when I looked them up they had a filler match between them .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That kinda makes me think: between 17, 19 and 26, which was the best on-paper WM ever?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think WM 26 comes close to the other 2. Far too much "looks like dogshit" on paper. ShowMiz Vs Morrison & Truth? Legacy triple threat aka Dull & Duller & Dullest? Vince Vs Crippled for the last decade Bret? Green as grass Sheamus Vs HHH? Vickie Guerrero involved in the divas match? So much URGH on paper. And most of it didn't surprise me in a good way after it happened either .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The scary thing about 17 and 19 is that both still had flaws here and there - in the same voice tone that you put in your RR '01 mini-review, *they could've been even better.*

Checking out now Orton/Kane @ 28. Remember it being a solid little match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane/Orton was 3rd best MOTN for me at WM 28. And one of only 3 matches worth seeing on the event too lol. *** for it :lmao. Says all you need to know about WM 28. Thankfully the other 2 matches gave it a monstrous boost in STARS~! that puts it ahead of a lot of other WM events that were perhaps more well rounded in terms of not having as much pure shite on the event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imma guess those two are Punk/Jericho (PSYCHOLOGY) and Taker/Trips (My favourite WM match ever). 28 was prob. one of the most overhyped Manias ever, but those two fucking lived up to the hype.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just imagine if you took out the pointless GM tag match and removed like, half the time for Rock/Cena and have it all to Sheamus/Bryan. Could have had 3 matches all in the ****1/4+ range.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Bryan. Arguably one of the biggest fails in WM history. The worst of it for me is that I sorta kinda called something like that would happen during DBry's entrance due to the Brogue Kick being a possible "outta nowhere" finisher.

Luckily they got 25 minutes at ER, but if only that was the WM match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

At least Bryan came out of it looking BETTER, which I never would have thought could happen at the time. AJ got her push out of it too (FUCK THE HATERS), and ironically enough Sheamus was the guy that got the worst end of the deal in the end having to wrestle Del Rio about 8 billion times on PPV that year :lmao.

I got to see Sheamus Vs Bryan after WM but before ER at a live event I attended :mark:. Showed me that they definitely had the chemistry needed to have a great match at ER, just couldn't have guessed it would have been THAT good. Also, this http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss149/WrestlingElite/IMG_8456.jpg .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Sheamus/ADR matches suffered a lot from the lack of chemistry and care. They were good for what they were, but nobody gave a shit. And it was obvious they didn't really click together. NOC delievered though. I also really liked the match they had before Sheamus left this year.

And yeah, FUCK AJ LEE HATERS:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Hey I'm only two smackdown's behind (I decided to take a day off from the project) and I'll get on it soon. Perhaps even in a few hours if I don't pass out. I'm excited to watch after all the praise the match has gotten. Cena vs JBL got nothing but negatives but I dug that, so this is looking good.
> 
> Night of Champions '08 didn't hold up for me, sadly. I watched it out of order and I only ended up liking the first three matches & the "segment/match" that was number four. Rest of the show was a miss. Jericho vs Kofi was horrible & the double main event fell flat.


Well that's no good. I think I might;ve gotten the Edge/Batista matches mixed up anyway cause it's the 'Last Chance' match from the previous year that I thought was really good. Not sure if I've ever seen the more recent one.



ATF said:


> HHH/Mankind I have at ***3/4. Awesome, awesome brawl imo.
> 
> What about the best double Main Event in Mania history? Imo, gotta have to be WM 14 (Shawn/Austin and Taker/Kane).


If we're talking about the last two matches that went on back to back I'd probably say Taker/Trips and Austin/Rock from 17. 26 may give it a run for its money though, haven't seen Cena/Batista since it aired.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Taker/Batista & Cena/HBK.

The Latter will never receive the recognition it truly deserves. Epic, EPIC bout and yet it's never mentioned amongst the ranks of the greatest Wrestlemania bouts ever, despite being like the fifth best Mania match ever IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If we're talking about the last two matches that went on back to back I'd probably say Taker/Trips and Austin/Rock from 17. 26 may give it a run for its money though, haven't seen Cena/Batista since it aired.


Nope :ambrose2, the two straight up ME's of the night (like Slaughter/Hogan and Savage/Warrior for 7, or Rock/Cena and Taker/Trips for 28).

Btw, Edge/Batista NOC '08 was the one where Batista throws Vickie over the top rope. It was a fun little sprint. Can't remember a thing about the Last Chance one other than the count out finish.

@KOK, Cena/Shawn WM was voted '07 MOTY :meltzer


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Considering this was a while ago, you know he returns to make everything right with the world. Idk, I've always loved the hell out of that match. It's a sprint of a ladder match - cut a lot of the filler. I'm a big fan. That's just me.


Yeah haha, ladder match was ok, its not the worst at all though. 

I think a MITB ladder match may be the most consistent stip ever.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Who hates AJ? Oh man I'd rob a bank for her. I like a thicker girl (Natty, Kaitlyn, Rosa) but I would not kick AJ out of bed for eating crackers 

My only real complaint with WM28 was the Bryan/Fella match we got at ER should have been the one at WM. That match was fucking epic. In the :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer neighborhood for me. That match really should have got 20-25 mins on the big stage. If they wanted to do the AJ "kiss of death" thing they could have done it after the first two falls when it was 1-1....Bryan could have thought he had it in the bag, kisses AJ and BOOM Brogue Kick.....new WHC. But even with the squash match that is a good/fun Mania and the best since WM25 IMHO. 


To the dude who says Canadian Stampede has the best undercard ever....tough to top...

Rey/Angle
Flair/Jericho
Edge/Eddie
RVD/Pegasus
Christan & Lane Storm/ Booker T/Goldust 

That is 7-8 giants in the industry and probably 10-11 guys that are in or deserve to be in the HoF....Im not even counting the classic, emotional HBK/HHH match since that was sort of the second main event....few PPVs are perfect but this one is, Canadian Stampede is fun as hell though, damn fun HHH/Mankind match too


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That would be me. But let's not forget that CS had a super fun opener, the incredible Sasuke/TAKA match and the hard-hitting dream match in Taker/Vader. All of this with an awesome atmosphere and crowd. And not that it counts but *dat Main Event*, Jesus fuck.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> That would be me. But let's not forget that CS had a super fun opener, the incredible Sasuke/TAKA match and the hard-hitting dream match in Taker/Vader. All of this with an awesome atmosphere and crowd. And not that it counts but *dat Main Event*, Jesus fuck.


I thought so but I was too lazy to look haha. 

Oh you don't have to convince on that PPV and especially not that main event. In another thread I named that my fave match of 1997 (it JUST beats out the Final Four for me) and I mark for that whole year. There are like 20-25 :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer (or above) matches that year. It was so fucking strong. If I ever have the money I'm gonna hit someone up for every Raw from 1997 on DVD. I'd probably never leave my basement lol. 

side note....anyone who thinks WCW was better that year top to bottom I'd love to have a friendly debate with :cool2

I'd love a copy of Canadian Stampede. I have found it on ebay on vhs for like $40. I bought it live back in the day and tapped it onto vhs but lord knows where that tape is. Crowd was ridiculous that night.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Any recommendations on Royal rumble 2010 and EC 2010? Need some stuff to watch this week


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Any recommendations on Royal rumble 2010 and EC 2010? Need some stuff to watch this week


I like EC for the fact Cena didn't walk out WWE champion and Jericho walked out WHC. The Smackdown/WHC chamber is damn good IMHO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Any recommendations on Royal rumble 2010 and EC 2010? Need some stuff to watch this week


The Rumble is decent but nothing standout. Taker/Rey is fun and Christian/Zeke is a good opener but I thought the Rumble felt rushed (only 49 minutes). Sheamus/Orton was heel vs. heel at the time I believe and I don't remember it working at all.

Only seen the two chamber matches from EC, believe I put both at *** 1/2. You'll probably love the main event though. The rest of the card doesn't look promising but who knows.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The WHC chamber match in 2010 is one of my fave Chamber matches but that is just me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Way to spoil it for him :lol

hbk/cena wm 23 is one of the most underrated mania matches ever, best wwe title match @ mania IMO


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Should I rewatch Benoit/Finlay JD or Benoit/Regal Velocity? :hmm:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Should I rewatch Benoit/Finlay JD or Benoit/Regal Velocity? :hmm:



Benoit/Finlay sir, that match is tits they just beat the shit out of each other for 20+ minutes. Benoit with dat TOOTHLESS AGRESSION. On a side note, I wish Finlay would have kept his hair from his Belfast Bruiser days for his entire career. How awesome would that have been?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just because, thoughts on Shawn/Orton JD 2007?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Way to spoil it for him :lol
> 
> hbk/cena wm 23 is one of the most underrated mania matches ever, best wwe title match @ mania IMO


Yeah fuck me right? Hahaha....I assume he knows what happened if not my apologies. 

HBK/Cena at Mania is underrated for sure but I will put Savage/Hogan, Flair/Savage, Bret/HBK (again, fuck me right?), Rock/Austin II, Eddie/Angle and Punk/Jericho ahead of it. Too each their own.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Just because, thoughts on Shawn/Orton JD 2007?


Nice super-short little match. Shawn comes in injured and despite Orton taking advantage of the concussion, he fights back with all he's got. But the newly born Viper doesn't give a shit and knocks him DA FUCK OUT!

One of the better story-advancers that wasn't a real match, shouldn't have been on PPV either. Didn't help that it was in Orton's hometown and they cheered him.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Yeah fuck me right? Hahaha....I assume he knows what happened if not my apologies.
> 
> HBK/Cena at Mania is underrated for sure but I will put Savage/Hogan, Flair/Savage, Bret/HBK (again, fuck me right?), Rock/Austin II, Eddie/Angle and Punk/Jericho ahead of it. Too each their own.


I know who wins so its alright.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Honestly want me to start ranking shit? Well Fuuuuuckkkkkkk....

1. Shawn-Cena WM XXIII
2. Punk-Jericho WM XXVIII
3. Savage-Flair WM VIII

Those are the TOPS.

29. Miz-Cena WM XXVII
28. Andre-Hogan WM III
27. Rock-Cena WM XXIX

Those are the SHITS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Nice super-short little match. Shawn comes in injured and despite Orton taking advantage of the concussion, he fights back with all he's got. But the newly born Viper doesn't give a shit and knocks him DA FUCK OUT!
> 
> One of the better story-advancers that wasn't a real match, shouldn't have been on PPV either. Didn't help that it was in Orton's hometown and they cheered him.


Shawn's selling was what pretty much what made the pillars of the whole segment, if his selling sucked the segment sucked.

And even if it wasn't a proper match, the fact that it lead to their SS match later in the year ups it for me.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Top 3 mania matches?

1: HBK/taker I
2: HBK/taker II
3: Savage/Steamboat

Worst?

1:Goldberg/Lesnar
2: Cena/Miz
3: Taker/Giant Gonzalez


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I the only person that prefers warrior/savage to savage/steamboat ?

Gonna watch flair/savage today, got netlix again, one of my favorite builds of all-time " Elizabeth was MINE !!" :flair


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I think alot of people around here appreciate Warrior/Savage more TBH. Think it's a vast majority actually.

Savage/Flair fucking destroys them both though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I think alot of people around here appreciate Warrior/Savage more TBH. Think it's a vast majority actually.
> 
> Savage/Flair fucking destroys them both though.


Imo it doesn't. Savage/Warrior is better. Though it destroys Savage/Steamboat, which is beyond overrated.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to rewatch Warrior/Savage I think

EDIT: Just rewatched Savage/Steamboat. That was not as good as I remember 

Edited best three mania matches

1:HBK/Taker I
2: HBK/Taker II
3: Hart/Austin


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Imo it doesn't. Savage/Warrior is better. Though it destroys Savage/Steamboat, which is beyond overrated.


I don't agree with the overrated statement. That match in 1987 was absolutely revolutionary, the false finishes and back and forth action just wasn't done on a big stage like that back then. Just listen to Jesse and Gorilla mark the fuck out on commentary towards the end heaping praise on what they were seeing. It was really, really special back then. Yes it doesn't hold up as well today, just as Doctor J dunking from the foul line in 1976 isn't all that impressive today. But back then? Holy hell was it impressive. It deserves the respect it gets. It started the trend of non main event matches vying to steal the show on big pay per views.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Warrior/Savage was damn good, but Savage/Flair takes a nasty dump on it. Warrior/Savage had the GOAT post-match material and it was a spectacular carry job, but even one of the greatest wrestlers of all-time couldn't stop me from being bothered by The Ultimate Warrior. The ending was also pretty terrible. I kinda like the match a bit more when I look at it as one where Warrior is the heel and Savage is the face, but I do think it is overrated mainly because of the post-match material and the fact that somehow The Ultimate Warrior took part in a good (not amazing) match.

I'm really glad that the short Michaels/Orton match is getting recognition. One of the best short matches I have ever seen. On the level of Edge/Hardy and Lesnar/Show. Nothing beats Owen/123 Kid though from KOTR.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

savage/steamboat is not overrated at all, its 1987 remember, a blueprint for alot of your future Bret/Jericho etc matches


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF said:


> Imo it doesn't. Savage/Warrior is better. Though it destroys Savage/Steamboat, which is beyond overrated.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Beyond overrated as in receiving ***** and GOAT ratings from almost everyone I know. Imo it's a solid ****1/4, ***** is abuse as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Savage/Steamer WM ain't even the best match they had together .


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Kane vs CM Punk from SD 2012/5/18 is such an underrated match.. Wasn't TV MOTY or anything but still Kane's best match in ages. Great match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Savage/Steamer WM ain't even the best match they had together .


I have seen a few really good ones from 86 on you tube. You should post a couple you think are better. Just curious which ones. They had a great one in Boston in 86.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I *think* the date for the one I really love is Toronto 2/15/87. A nice HATE~! filled match which I always felt the WM match should have been.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Its great that the Punk V Jericho WM 28 match is being more appreciated over time. 

I think it caught people off guard originally because it wasn't just a work rate match with a bunch of arm drags and shit that people were expecting it to be.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

EmbassyForever said:


> Kane vs CM Punk from SD 2012/5/18 is such an underrated match.. Wasn't TV MOTY or anything but still Kane's best match in ages. Great match.


Thank you. This was seriously the most underappreciated match of last year. Should be required viewing here.

Savage/Steamboat in Toronto is one of the best WWE matches in that entire decade. DAT HATE! :kane


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steamboat wants revenge on Savage for crushing his throat. So their clash at WrestleMania ends up being....very well wrestled. It was heated, in a more competitive back and forth sport type of way. That did go the opposite route in consideration with the story. Savage does try and do the throat on the guardrail spot as a nice callback. There's at least that.

Dig that match, but I'll gladly take Savage vs Warrior WM 7 over it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I still have savage/warrior over all those tbh

Just watched hbk/cena wm 23, still great match just alittle long in the tooth, I love the dickish, scrappy hbk in this one. Just give Cena a wrestling lesson the whole time


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Length never phased me about that one. Then when they went nearly 38 on RAW, more of the same. Easy to watch despite the gross duration both men were working at. Pace of the rematch is absurd.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes it is, love the pace in both tbh, I still think this is the best title match at mania IMO, need to re watch flair/macho


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's one of the best. Without a doubt. Punk vs Jericho secured the number one spot for me last year. Held up and it's staying until the next WM's could try and dethrone it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imo Cena/Shawn is only in the low end of the Top 5 WWE Title matches of 2007. Orton/Shawn, Backlash 4-Way, Cena/Umaga and HHH/Orton LMS are all better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll take it over all except for Cena vs Umaga. Which was hands down pick for MOTY in 2007. The last man standing if anyone was curious. Not NYR, despite being really good too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The BL 4 way and orton/shawn svs 07 are rubbish, orton/hbk un.f 03 smokes their other matches and its not GREAT in anyway


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

STONE COLD vs THE ROCK is the greatest WWE Championship match in Wrestlemania history imo.

On another note, I discovered this little gem in one of the WWE.com lists. Totally caught me by surprise because I would've never expected it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Imo Cena/Shawn is only in the low end of the Top 5 WWE Title matches of 2007. Orton/Shawn, Backlash 4-Way, Cena/Umaga and HHH/Orton LMS are all better.


Feel the same, and this is not a slight to Cena/HBK. Cena just had his career year in 2007. A shame that his character work made that entire year into a net negative for him. Not even Mitsuharu Misawa could compensate for that disgraceful non-in ring performance.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My headphone jack on my PC is broken 

this is gonna put a serious damper on my watching hours


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> The BL 4 way and *orton/shawn svs 07 are rubbish*


I see where you're coming from as far as the 4-Way goes, but I really disagree with Orton/Shawn being 'rubbish'. Shawn pulling every damn trick he could was absolutely glorious.

How can anyone not having enjoyed that match? unk3


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins thinks Orton/Shawn is rubbish? Now THAT's an unpopular opinion. Huge one. Brilliant match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd take... the entire Undertaker/Batista series minus the SD cage match over HBK/Cena WM. Then HBK/Orton SVS (LOL at this being rubbish), HHH/Orton LMS, Undertaker & Batista/HBK & Cena NWO, Finlay/Rey Mysterio Smackdown 09/11/2007, HBK/Cena from Raw in the UK, and probably a few more here and there that I'm forgetting. And I still rate HBK/Cena WM at ***3/4.

EDIT: I remembered another - Undertaker/Batista/Edge from Armageddon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal since you're all English and whatnot, is that Finlay vs Mysterio match the one that took place in England? You're damn date order is throwing me off.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> STONE COLD vs THE ROCK is the greatest WWE Championship match in Wrestlemania history imo.
> 
> On another note, I discovered this little gem in one of the WWE.com lists. Totally caught me by surprise because I would've never expected it.


Chris Benoit still exists after all :lmao

Vince should just give up this "Who is Krispen Wah?" charade and admit for fucking good that, regardless of what he did, Benoit is an irreplaceable part of their history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> redskins thinks Orton/Shawn is rubbish? Now THAT's an unpopular opinion. Huge one. Brilliant match.





ATF said:


> I see where you're coming from as far as the 4-Way goes, but I really disagree with Orton/Shawn being 'rubbish'. Shawn pulling every damn trick he could was absolutely glorious.
> 
> How can anyone not having enjoyed that match? unk3


Is it really ?

Yea its meh-ok to me at best tbh, I watched it for a friend a couple days ago. Had a different stip, but that's hbk bread and butter, its like having an Orton match with no RKO, scsa match with no stunner ? Flair match with no figure four ? Just weird. I liked how Shawn compensated with some nice grapplin but it doesn't it for me, the match as a whole. Orton was in his weird " I'm not the LK anymore but, I'm not a full-blown bald headed weirdo with Rhodes and Dibiase following me yet" run

I like their unf. 03 and I think cyber sunday as I watched that recently as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm big on Orton vs Michaels. If only Undertaker vs Batista from the same show didn't suck. It could have been a heck of a double main event for the PPV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal since you're all English and whatnot, is that Finlay vs Mysterio match the one that took place in England? You're damn date order is throwing me off.


England? Nope. And the date is 9th November ya half wit .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Batista/Taker HIAC was dissapointing, but I thought it didn't suck. As a matter of fact, *(unpopular opinion alert)* imo Batista/Taker SS > CS.



redskins25 said:


> Is it really ?
> 
> Yea its meh-ok to me at best tbh, I watched it for a friend a couple days ago. Had a different stip, but that's hbk bread and butter, its like having an Orton match with no RKO, scsa match with no stunner ? Flair match with no figure four ? Just weird. I liked how Shawn compensated with some nice grapplin but it doesn't it for me, the match as a whole. Orton was in his weird " I'm not the LK anymore but, I'm not a full-blown bald headed weirdo with Rhodes and Dibiase following me yet" run


Well, long portion of American Badass Taker matches were without a Tombstone for example. And he was still The Undertaker, no name changes. SS '07 still had a lot more of HBK characteristics on it. And c'mon, it wasn't just grappling. Shawn Michaels doing the Crossface? In November 2007? That's Punk Piledriver 2013 insane. Even more impressive was the connection of numbers for his Sharpfuckingshooter. Survivor Series, 2007 (10 years later), Shawn Michaels, Nº1 Contender to the WWE Title, locks in a Sharpshooter. You see the dilemma. And he did the Ankle Lock too. 

Pure brilliance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cal (aside from me) is probably the only one here who uses the day before the month in the date order. Since I'm used to reading it the usual mm/dd/yyyy here, it gets me confused at times.



ATF said:


> Chris Benoit still exists after all :lmao
> 
> Vince should just give up this "Who is Krispen Wah?" charade and admit for fucking good that, regardless of what he did, Benoit is an irreplaceable part of their history.


I think when HHH takes over, he'll bring back the wolverine. But it's funny because even though they don't mention him, that inclusion pretty much encourages the reader to go over to google and search for it - which results in them discovering Benoit if they didn't know him already. :lol

One step at a time I guess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

FINLAY/HARDY! Now there is 2007's crown jewel.

FINLAY! :insertfinlaysmiley


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Batista/Taker HIAC was dissapointing, but I thought it didn't suck. As a matter of fact, *(unpopular opinion alert)* imo Batista/Taker SS > CS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gosh ATF I dont like that match stop bothering me 

:lmao JK I mean to each is their own, The stip didn't bother me than much, but it just seemed weird you know. I'm not a huge technical wrestling guy, so some of the MOVEZ I dont care for that much if that makes sense ? I got a huge :lmao when hbk applied the sharpshooter at BL 04 and hebner shows up and it was in Canada


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I think when HHH takes over, he'll bring back the wolverine. But it's funny because even though they don't mention him, that inclusion pretty much encourages the reader to go over to google and search for it - which results in them discovering Benoit if they didn't know him already. :lol
> 
> One step at a time I guess.


From everything that I know, H did have a huge amount of respect for Chris and considered him a friend. Hopefully he will indeed bring him back. It's pretty much Fear Factor-challenging to think about bad matches Chris Benoit had - apart from Angle matches not named WrestleMania 17 or Judgment Day, but those aren't to be taken too seriously and you'll have a blast watching them with your brain shut off. And the guy just had a phenomenal legacy. He was a lock for the HOF before that fatidic weekend happened.

Sooner or later, the "ghost" will rise :lol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> *Cal (aside from me) is probably the only one here who uses the day before the month in the date order.* Since I'm used to reading it the usual mm/dd/yyyy here, it gets me confused at times


There shouldn't be any other way. Don't entertain them numpties, they're just backwards.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> From everything that I know, H did have a huge amount of respect for Chris and considered him a friend. Hopefully he will indeed bring him back. It's pretty much Fear Factor-challenging to think about bad matches Chris Benoit had - apart from Angle matches not named WrestleMania 17 or Judgment Day, but those aren't to be taken too seriously and you'll have a blast watching them with your brain shut off. And the guy just had a phenomenal legacy. He was a lock for the HOF before that fatidic weekend happened.
> 
> Sooner or later, the "ghost" will rise :lol


HHH has stated after Benoit's death that he still respects him so that's probably a lock. (can't find interviews but think it was in 2009) There won be any HOF inductions but who cares, I just want his work displayed properly and recognized the way it should've been. And yeah, in 2007, you hear JBL call him a future Hall of Famer every week.

And I enjoy the Angle matches because I don't put a lot of stock on "psychology" (seriously, FUCK that term ). Unless it's over the top like that Jeff Hardy match from 2010, I like an Angle SPOTZ match.



Rah said:


> There shouldn't be any other way. Don't entertain them numpties, they're just backwards.


Complete agree. DD/MM/YYYY >>>>


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> "psychology" (seriously, FUCK that term )


I agree with this part. I try and avoid using that word. Storytelling works much better for me. Doesn't sound like I'm a smarky cunt when I use that in a review/ramble/wrestling nonsense post.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> England? Nope. And the date is 9th November ya half wit .


Could have sworn they worked together on the England show. Either way, it's the great match I was thinking of. NOVEMBER 9TH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Could have sworn they worked together on the England show. Either way, it's the great match I was thinking of. NOVEMBER 9TH.


If they did work in England it will have either been earlier in the year in April/May or 2006.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> HHH has stated after Benoit's death that he still respects him so that's probably a lock. (can't find interviews but think it was in 2009) There won be any HOF inductions but who cares, I just want his work displayed properly and recognized the way it should've been. And yeah, in 2007, you hear JBL call him a future Hall of Famer every week.
> 
> And I enjoy the Angle matches because I don't put a lot of stock on "psychology" (seriously, FUCK that term ). Unless it's over the top like that Jeff Hardy match from 2010, I like an Angle SPOTZ match.


Yeah, I've learned to myself. I *loathe* their Rumble match, yet whenever I simply don't care about star ratings or bullshit and I shut my brain off, I just have so much fun. Those last 10 minutes are perfect "funtime" 

Though I enjoy much more the tamed Kurt - the one that wrestled Austin, Lesnar and Taker.

But enough Kurt Angle, this is about *Krispen Wah* :vince5


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WHYYYYYY DOESS KURT ANGLE's NAME POP UP EVERY SINGLE PAGE STOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP ITT !!!

who ever talked aobut steamboat/savage IC 2/15/87 , this match is fucking good


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

"Pyschology" wouldn't be such a loathesome term if more people expanded on it instead of just writing 'this match had wonderful psychology' and left it at that. I swear so many people use it on this place and I'm convinced most probably couldn't allude to what specifically they liked about it, but see it banded about so often they feel it's integral to mention.

It's not the be all and end all really. At best it gives a sense of structure and purpose to a match, which is fine and all but if there's not much beyond that then you're pretty much limiting the heights the match can reach. It's pretty much Del Rio's career. From a logic standpoint he does little wrong in the ring, but christ if bar Payback he's ever entertained me or gotten me to care about him during a match as a heel as much as someone like Mcintyre managed effortlessly in 2010 and '11.

As for DD/MM/YY, ironically enough I use that format in everyday life but when it comes to matches I reverse it. Maybe it's because it's American wrestling I'm not sure, but somewhere along the way I dropped the old format and used American dates even with Japanese or Lucha matches. Think it's become such a habit when it comes to reviews that I'm predisposed to it habitually from here on out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> If they did work in England it will have either been earlier in the year in April/May or 2006.


:lmao

the smackdown took place in Bakersfield, California. That was less than an hour from where I was living at the time. Or lordy.

The England Smackdown I was thinking of happened on 10/19. Finlay vs Hardy & Mysterio vs Porter to feed into Cyber Sunday.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> "Pyschology" wouldn't be such a loathesome term if more people expanded on it instead of just writing 'this match had wonderful psychology' and left it at that. I swear so many people use it on this place and I'm convinced most probably couldn't allude to what specifically they liked about it, but see it banded about so often they feel it's integral to mention.


THIS all fucking day. The amount of times I see people's "reviews" of matches where they put "this had great psychology" and then stuck a high star rating at the end of it makes me wanna punch people in the fucking face.

Edit: Well done Cody. Confusing times, dates, locations AND matches all in one post!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least I know when I'm not feeling BLUGGH post-hangover I'm much more alert & decide to check my facts. This is good to know.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shawn Michaels vs John Cena wm 23

- This match had great psychology, ****1/4


Jk

- I see that most of us all have different opinions on what the best wwe title match was at wrestlemania. Well this one is my pick, I've said it in other threads, I believe Hbk is John-boy's best opponent in ring and Punker is his best feud. I had no problem with this one going on last either, Shawn was amazing in this match, reverting back to his old ways, heelish tendencies, just destroying Cena's knee/leg, and just taking him to school wrestling-wise. I said it before my only grip is its alittle long in the tooth, but the pacing in this one and their raw match are grade A.
****-**** 1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching another PPV right now for a ramble post thingy . Everyone go read my Unforgiven for from last night. Ya cunts.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Watching another PPV right now for a ramble post thingy . Everyone go read my Unforgiven for from last night. Ya cunts.


If I can do a Ramble Request, I request you ramble on No Mercy '06 afterwards plz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eh, not really wanting to do anything from 06, especially the SD shows since I reviewed those not that long ago and everything is still so fresh in my mind (despite being like, 3 years ago? Weird I know), and the Raw ones I AM in the middle of doing along with the TV shows too. Right now I'm kinda in a 2000 mode. So this one I'm watching is from 2000. 2000~!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Fully Loaded please? :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be doing all of 2000 except for RR and WM since I did them earlier this year. Fully Loaded will happen .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh how I wish I could watch something right now 

Tonight hopefully. skipping raw, too many commercials when you have DVR


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> THIS all fucking day. The amount of times I see people's "reviews" of matches where they put "this had great psychology" and then stuck a high star rating at the end of it makes me wanna punch people in the fucking face.
> 
> Edit: Well done Cody. Confusing times, dates, locations AND matches all in one post!


When I say that a match had "good psychology" I mean that the moves that were done made sense and that the match was built in a sensible manner. I assumed this thread had people that know enough about wrestling that I wouldn't have to elaborate and say "it made perfect sense that Guerrero didn't do his 3 amigos suplexes because Benoit had been working his back all match" etc. Things that will make me say a match had "bad" psychology include but aren't limited to: a wrestler working a limb all match only for it to go no where in the end (ala Malenko working Mysterios arm all match....wtf is that gonna do.) a wrestler getting his leg worked for 10 minutes only for him to nip up and super kick the other wrestler immediately afterwards (a lot of HBK matches from the 90s had this and it drove me nuts) or things like a wrestler attempting a super plex in the beginning of a match all will make me say a match had "bad psychology". The easiest way to say it is good wrestling psychology is doing the right thing at the right time as it pertains to both of the wrestling characters that are fighting. Generally bad wrestling psychology is anything that takes away from the realism of the match I'm watching. Proper selling I guess can also be lumped into the "Wrestling Psychology" umbrellea. It can also mean building the match in the proper manner so it keeps getting more and more exciting until it finally crescendos in the end with the finish. See Orton, Randy and Foley, Mick from Backlash 2004 for one of the finest examples of building an amazing match that constantly tops itself until the final ending crescendo.

I use it as a way of taking a short cut when I don't feel like writing a "A Farewell to Arms" for my match review. I'm mostly posting from an IPad so it's pretty difficult to type long posts all the time. So cut me some slack, I'm aware of what wrestling psychology is and I'm sure most other people are too. No need to want to punch me in the face for taking a small short cut in a match review. I do try to elaborate when I have a real computer to type on.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Wow. I had never seen that match (Savage/Steam Toronto) that was good shit. Not sure how I missed that. Still like WM3 better but after first watch I loved it. I had this poster growing up (I think it was from a PWI?) and I wonder if it was from that Toronto match? 










The WM 3 had some hate. Not near as much obviously as there could have been or in that Toronto match but I have never seen Steamboat do this. Well, I don't remember anyway.....










Can we get another damn Savage set please? Unreleased stuff would be cool. Please and thank you WWE.

As for "psychology" I use the term but I try to elaborate on it. I also prefer storytelling. If we are talking Psychology/Storytelling it doesn't get much better than Warrior/Savage at WM7. The ending was great with Warrior standing on Savage the way Savage use to (example below) when he would drop the elbow on folks as a heel....also Savage dropping 5 elbows was probably away for fans to see a bunch of elbows before he "retired". Also, besides Hogan, nobody else had ever kicked out of the Warrior gorilla press thingy. That was HUGE when Savage did that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

To hell with another Savage release, I want a STEAMBOAT set again :mark:. 3 discs, no documentary since we already got one, and no, and I do mean NO 60 minute match with Flair. Or any of the Flair matches tbh unless they want one of the early 80's ones on there.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

EmbassyForever said:


> Kane vs CM Punk from SD 2012/5/18 is such an underrated match.. Wasn't TV MOTY or anything but still Kane's best match in ages. Great match.




Kane/Orton from extreme rules 2012 says hello.... Actually hits the 4 star rating for me. IMO it was the third best match of the night

Cena/Lesnar ****1/2
Sheamus/Bryan ****1/2
Kane/Orton ****
Punk/Jericho ***3/4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My computer just did weird stuff. My apologies. 

I'm assuming the pic of Savage I posted bleeding broke some rule? If so my bad. 

Another Steamboat set would be badass. I'd love to see some more of these matches Flair talks about in the late 70's/early 80's that are supposed to be better than their 89 matches. Love me some Steamboat. Loved how he came out to Sirius as well.

I think Extreme Rules is getting a watch tonight. Only watched it twice. Have seen the Bryan/Fella match more than that though since its on the best of 2012 ppv set. The best of 2013 PPV matches is shaping up to be damn good. I'm sure Punk/Rock from EC will be on there though. BUT that was better than their Rumble match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea , I might be one of the few people that don't think too highly of Jericho vs Punk Chicago Street Fight. I watched it last night for the first time since it aired live and it really didn't do much for me. Maybe it was how ricockulous Punk looked with baggy jeans on with knee pads over them :lmao

No seriously I even liked their match at Payback more than that one. I really couldn't get into it, maybe it was the pacing, maybe it was the fact that the kendo stick strings were removed so I know that those shots didn't hurt very much, maybe it was Jericho taking time to go get a beer under the ring and pour it all over Punk (wanna talk about DUMB PSYCHOLOGY? Who does that with the WWE title on the line? Made Jericho look like a dumb boner, which is contradictory to the character he was trying to portray. Don't give me that nonsense that he cared more about insulting Punk than winning the match either, nothing would insult Punk more than losing the strap in his home town). Ill stop ranting now, but yea that match didn't impress me at all, those two are capable of so much more as we saw at Mania, which is my favorite WWE title match at Mania of all time.

By the way, after watching a TON of WCW from 96-97 and some WWE around 2010, I can finally tell you what hell as a wrestling fan truly is. Hell for a wrestling fan is having to watch Hogan vs Warrior at Halloween Havoc on repeat while Matt Stryker does play by play and Dusty Rhodes does color. Over and over until the end of time. God those two are so goddamn awful at commentary it almost makes it difficult to watch the match. Which might be a good thing with Hogan vs Warrior HH being the match you have to watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Now rewatching the brilliance that is Benoit/Kane at Bad Blood '04. Fuck the haters, Kane more than held his own with the Wolverine there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not the biggest fan of Punk/Jericho ER either. WM blows it, absolutely fucking HURRICANES IT, out of the water. Haven't seen their PB match. Downloaded the show, but I was in such a wrestling slump at the time I never watched any of it. Same for like every PPV after WM up until SummerSlam lol.

Bryan/Punk OTL needs more pimping. My personal MOTY. Breaking Undertaker's STREAK of having MOTY since like, 2005.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Does anyone else have Cena/lesnar at *****? Its my favorite match of all time from both guys.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Does anyone else have Cena/lesnar at *****? Its my favorite match of all time from both guys.


I do. And gladly so.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ATF said:


> I do. And gladly so.


Awesome, Thought I was alone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****3/4 for it. Incredible match, but I'd probably put the HIAC match with Undertaker above it as far as Lesnar matches go, as well as SS with Angle which I have at the full *****. Best Cena match? Yeah, probably. Punk MITB is the only competition for it imo.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Not the biggest fan of Punk/Jericho ER either. WM blows it, absolutely fucking HURRICANES IT, out of the water. Haven't seen their PB match. Downloaded the show, but I was in such a wrestling slump at the time I never watched any of it. Same for like every PPV after WM up until SummerSlam lol.
> 
> Bryan/Punk OTL needs more pimping. My personal MOTY.


Mine as well. I put that in my match of the year by year thread. Just brilliant.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Need to watch the entire SS 03, never seen it but I saw the Brock/Angle match at WM 19, dissapointed with it. But I have heard the SS one is better


Taker/Brock I had at **** 3/4*

Punk /cena *****, but not as good. both are AWESOME though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:ns


Callamus said:


> Not the biggest fan of Punk/Jericho ER either. WM blows it, absolutely fucking HURRICANES IT, out of the water. Haven't seen their PB match. Downloaded the show, but I was in such a wrestling slump at the time I never watched any of it. Same for like every PPV after WM up until SummerSlam lol.
> 
> Bryan/Punk OTL needs more pimping. My personal MOTY. Breaking Undertaker's STREAK of having MOTY since like, 2005.


I was pimping that match HARD a few weeks ago after a rewatch and said it was my MotY for 2012. Hayley disagreed and listed some other fantastic matches he liked a bit more so I watched those to compare. The only one I might put above Punk/Bryan OTL for 2012 MotY is Hell No Rybacl vs The Shield at TLC. I can't really decide which match I like more because both were so outstanding and yet completely different from one another. I can say pretty conclusively that no wrestler or team of wrestlers has ever had a better debut match than the Shield did at TLC. So for me I have them both tied as 1 and 1A for match of the year 2012. Right behind those two would be Cena vs Lesnar ER, Bryan vs Sheamus ER, and Punk vs Jericho WM. 

I'd be interested to see your opinion on Punk vs Jericho at Payback. Since you brought up hating when people like me say a match has "good psychology" I'd like to see what you think of the story telling for their Payback match. I'd say that match is probably the most controversial match of the year without a doubt, some people like me think its pretty darn good, some people absolutely love it, and some think its total dogshit. I myself loved the ring rust story and Jericho trying to out work Punk at every turn. Punk did have some actual ring rust in that match no doubt, but they worked it into the story and elaborated it at points and turned it into a pretty enjoyable match in my view.

Edit, since you brought it up:
Lesnar's best matches
1. Vs Undertaker HiaC
2. Vs Punk SummerSlam
3. Vs Angle SummerSlam
4. Vs Cena at ER
5. Vs Big Show Stretcher Match

Cena's Best Matches:
1. Vs Punk MitB
2. Vs Lesnar ER
3. Vs HBK Raw
4. Vs Umaga LMS
5. Vs Punk Raw 2013
6. Vs Daniel Bryan SummerSlam
7. Vs Jericho Survivor Series 2008
8. Vs HBK Mania
9. Vs Eddie Parking Lot Brawl
10. Vs Punk Summerslam


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*SummerSlam 2000*

I said in my Unforgiven 00 ramblings yesterday that the summer of 2000 was soooo much fun. So figured I'd watch SummerSlam.


*Rikishi & 2 Cool Vs Right to Censor*

Rikishi & 2 Cool have a couple of HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOs with them. One of them is Victoria.

SCOTTY CROSSBODY.

Did you say SCOTTY CROSSBODY?

Yes, yes he did.

Ouch at a bump the Goodfather takes over the ropes. Something gets caught and then snaps when he least expects it to and he just flops down to the floor with a splat. So he pushes the HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOs down as revenge. Then trips over GMS in the ring as he goes to make a tag :lmao.

Rikishi is the guy that gets the hot tag and throws RTC around, and Steven Richards tries to run for it, only to be thrown back in by the HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOs. He doesn't know how lucky he is, do you have any idea how much you gotta pay to have a HOOOOOOOOOOOO get rough with you? Neither do I of course. Andy told me. Honest. *runs*

Rikishi launching 2 Cool arse first into people is awesome. 

Remember that WWF Title match on the first SD with HHH and The Rock (first SD either the pilot episode or the first official episode, I forget which) with HBK as the guest referee? Well picture Steven Richards as HBK (which is mildly amusing to me because I remember he came into the WWE as a HBK impersonator lol) and Scotty 2 Hotty as The Rock and The Worm as The People's Elbow. SUPERKICK! RTC win.

Fun opener, nothing more. Nobodies pants fell down so I just can't rate it that high.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Kurt Angle arrives at the arena earlier. Then Stephanie does. She looks smoking hot. Kurt Angle goes into her locker room. 3 days after he kissed her. HE GONNA GET HIM SOME.


*Road Dogg Vs X-Pac*

OH YOU DIDN'T KNOW? I quite liked the feud between these 2. Starts off with the "friendly rivalry", then "accidentally" gets more physical and before long they wanna go at it. X-Pac may have had the so called X-Pac heat (you know, where as a heel he got booed and shit...), but I loved him and Road Dogg too. Road Dogg should have been given a singles push at this time imo. IC title FTW. Always thought he was underrated in the ring, and listening to his shoots over the years I think even HE underrates his own ability. Terry Funk once said he could have been the single greatest promo guy ever if he didn't stick with his same schtick every night, and I can't say I disagree with THE FUNKER.

OMG X-PAC IS GETTING X-PAC SUCKS CHANTS HE'S GETTING SOME MAJOR X-PAC HEAT RIGHT NOW OMG.

A couple of nice spots here and there playing off the fact they know each other really well, but the match overall isn't anything special. Not that it's bad, because it's not, it's just a filler mid-card match that honestly didn't get the time and attention that I personally think it should have gotten. It was fucking DX guys fighting each other. Could have done more with it imo. 

Road Dogg turns on X-Pac afterwards because X-Pac cheated to win, and thus begins Road Dogg's rise to... nowhere . I still enjoy this though.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


JR tells us where he ate last night. Thanks JR. I've just eaten right now. And it's almost come back up because Chyna is on screen. Urgh. Things pick up when Trish appears. FAP FAP not as hot as Lita FAP FAP.


*Val Venis & Trish Stratus Vs Eddie Guerrero & Chyna - Intercontinental Championship*

Tag match for the IC title. Eddie & Chyna can pin either opponent to win the belt. But Trish can't win it for herself if she pins someone. Shame. Trish as IC champ in 2000 would have been hilarious.

I KEEP THINKING SOMEONE IS KNOCKING AT THE DOOR BUT IT'S THOSE LETTERS FLYING ACROSS THE SCREEN ISN'T IT?

Lawler has lost it. But he recovers by implying he wants to fuck Trish. Nice save, Jerry. And nice ass, Trish.

Damn, Chyna has some pretty sweet looking... CLOTHESLINES. You sick freaks who thought I was gonna say something else. I'd say it LOOKED like she nearly beheaded poor Val a few times, but she probably nearly did for real because she doesn't strike me as being a good enough worker to make those looks painful without actually being painful.

Eddie gets the hot tag and takes it to Val, then almost instinctively runs to attack the person on the apron which in this case happens to be Trish. He doesn't hit her, instead he kinda thrusts his penis in her direction and goes back to attacking Val :lmao.

Trish comes in right at the end, gets a 2 count on Eddie get takes an awesome bump when she clotheslines Chyna. Yep, she clotheslines Chyna and takes the bump. Not a botch, just showing that she's no match for Chyna. Body press slam later and... Chyna is the IC champ. Again. Val is pissed off. Trish got some apologising to do!

Good match. Even with the bulk of it being Chyna in the ring it still has VAL doing his shit and then Eddie in parts. Plus Trish looks fucking smoking hot. I like this one. I like Trish too.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Chyna likes Mick Foley's worm. Foley steals cookies from a fan. I wish WWF New York was still around. Looked like the most awesome place ever.

Stephanie backstage. She liked Kurt's kiss. She's hot.

JR is talking about sweets. He has a jar of them on the table.


*Jerry "The King" Lawler Vs Tazz*

Damn, Tazz's insults about JR's bells palsy are really below the belt. Bet Vince had a hand in those promos. Feud is pretty much JR Vs Tazz with Lawler coming to Ross' aid.

Match is definitely better than their UF match. Lots of great punches from one of the best punchers in the business, and Tazz ain't no slouch with everything he does either. Don't like the Piledriver no sell spot here just as I hated it at IF. Though Tazz almost saved it with the FUCK YOU to Lawler afterwards lol.

Tazzmission to Lawler while the ref is down, so JR... FUCKING JR :mark: grabs the formally mentions sweetie jar and smashes it over Tazz's face and Lawler gets the win!!! Crowd absolutely ERRUPT when JR does it. Awesome.

Fun match. Short and to the point. Good for what it was. Me likey.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Shane McMahon Vs Steve Blackman - Hardcore Championship*

:mark:. GOAT Hardcore champion Steve Blackman (who isn't the champ going into this match though) and Shane "bump like a crazy mofo" McMahon... in a HARDCORE MATCH? YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

:lmao at the opening spot. Blackman gives Shane the Kendo stick, turns his back and offers a free shot. Except Blackman is facing the fucking TITANTRON so he can see Shane coming and block the shot. SHANE O'MAC GONNA GET HIS ASS KICK, SHANE O'MAC GONNA GET HIS WIG SPLIT.

JR and Lawler are just having so much fucking fun on commentary. I miss those days.

Blackman is having so much fun in the ring too. Mainly with sticks and a trash can/trash can lid. The hardcore title division really was PERFECT for a guy like Blackman. He wasn't a colourful guy with great mic skills, but he got over like a motherfucker by hitting people with weapons and that's essentially what the hardcore division was all about.

Test and Albert show up to save Shane, and Lawler think's it's Edge & Christian :lmao. So who did he mistake Albert for? Edge? Christian? LOL!

Blackman gets gang raped by 3 guys, but manages to stay alive and eventually mounts some offense and takes out fucking everyone! Damn, this really, really put over both Blackman and the Hardcore title. Kinda wish they took it a little more seriously but ah well. Certainly the funnest title belt ever imo.

So everyone knows the finish. Shane tries to escape Blackman by climbing the staging, which is super fucking high, and Blackman follows him and knocks him off!!! AMAZING SPOT. I still remember seeing it for the first time. Rewound that VHS so many damn times that night! And THEN Blackman drops an elbow onto Shane afterwards? Like he fucking needed to? Awesome. Blackman wins back HIS title. Immensely fun match. Super awesome. Great finish too.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao at how many signs are in the crowd that say *insert name here* is gay. Ahhh the AE. Full of homophobic cunts! These days we get Darren Young Is Gay signs and it's a good thing! 

Stephanie is upset after what happened to Shane, and Angle comes to hug her. Foley walks in and catches them and Angle practically throws himself into a wall :lmao.


*Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - 2 out of 3 falls Match*

I like a LOT of matches between these guys. I enjoyed their feud in 00/01. I just never liked THIS match. Hope this watch changes my mind tbh.

Starts off GOOD. They hate each other so they just charge at each other fists a flying. Hell even the ref ends up taking a pretty sick bump to the floor when he gets caught between them. Lands right on his HEAD. Speaking of, FLAPJACK INTO THE RING POST. Benoit is super. Jericho's head is super broken.

First fall isn't long, with Jericho tapping out to the Crossface. However it WAS a good fall. Plenty of fucking HATE~!

Second fall starts with Benoit locking in the Crossface again straight away. Yet this time Jericho manages to hold on even longer... AND get to the ropes. Uhhh ok. Makes no sense lol.

Benoit dominates the second fall, and I kinda love Jericho's comebacks. Nothing but SLAPS TO THE FUCKING FACE. Didn't care for the finish of the second fall. Jericho gets his arm worked over the entire second fall yet somehow manages to apply the Walls of Jericho no problem, hold Benoit in the hold and make him tap. Uhhhh ok.

So yeah, still don't think much to this match. First fall is great. It's full of HATE~! and doesn't last long because honestly it didn't need to. They both went all out to kill each other and in a situation like that a fight wouldn't last too long either. Second fall sees Benoit work the arm of Jericho, and it's ok, but not awe-inspiring or anything. Finish was shitty. 3rd fall is Jericho trying everything he can to keep the momentum up from the second fall victory... and that's about it. A couple of big moves with some filler then Benoit wins. Eh. First fall is honestly the only fall that mattered. Disappointed yet again despite going into the match remembering it not being that good.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys - TLC Tag Team Titles Match*

First ever TLC match :mark:. This was when guys going out and falling off ladders through tables was new and fun. In WWF anyway. WM 2000 triangle ladder match was essentially a TLC match minus the TLC name. And it was awesome. A big fan of it I am. Much prefer that to the same kind of match a year later at WM 17 (aka TLC II). This one though? Always had a high opinion of it. Better than the WM 2000 match? Never really sure. Time to find out!

WM 2000 match provided plenty of new, unique spots due to having 3 teams in a ladder match. They slowly used tables and chairs in that one, but here all 3 are main parts of the match so everything is brought in pretty much straight away allowing for MOAR spots using them, which is super fun for the fans watching! Don't like Lawler calling E&C the chairmen of the WWE. STEALINGZ LA PARKA'S GIMMICK!!! Hey Jesse; La Parka Vs Christian. Just throwing it out there. Go fap over the thought of it or something. You're welcome .

Do these guys care? Do they give a flying fuck in the slightest? Seriously? Do they remotely give a damn about their own fucking HEALTH? Because good god, I cringed numerous times at some of the spots here. Jeff happily flies off a ladder onto another ladder and lands oh so wrong on it. Matt nearly gets his face crushed in the same spot that WOULD crush poor Mercury's face 6 years later. Everyone just gets HURT and take so many stupid yet awesome looking risks. Bubba going off the ladder over the ropes through 4 tables is awesome. And leads to a feud between The Dudley Boys and Kai-En-Tai. Doesn't get better than that. *Japanese Accent* THREEEE DEEEEE!

LITA LITA LITA LITA LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP LITA LITA FAP FAP. She knocks E&C crotch first off the ladder. So Edge Spear's her in return. CROTCH. SPEAR. EDGE. LITA. I GET IT!!!

Match holds up pretty damn good. Far better than TLC II ever could. Even though every spot has been done a billion times now, there is just something about THIS match that keeps me loving everything time and time again. Crazy spots, LITA, fun, entertaining, sick bumps. You name it this match has it. Jeff and Devon battling over the title belts while HANGING FROM THEM is awesome. Not sure still if I like it more than WM 2000 though lol .

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*The Kat Vs Terri - Thong Stinkface Match*

Yes, this is a thing. And my thing is loving The Kat. Terri has a good body but fuck, her face looks like 100 years old.

It's terrible, obvisouly, but I can't hate it. I just can't. 2 hot women trying to shove their arses in each other's face. I just can't hate that.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Undertaker Vs Kane*

The fuck was this feud all about? I AM A MONSTER! And that's the ONLY explination we got for Kane turning on Undertaker. HUH? Aside from the dumb logic I enjoyed everything they did. CHOKESLAM THROUGH THE RING :mark:.

So 2 big bastards beat the shit out of each other. Yeah I'm down with that. Aside from trying to punch Kane's face to death he also keeps trying to get the mask off, which just angers Kane. The guy who CHOKESLAMMED HIM THROUGH THE RING. Not wise lol. Poor Kane ends up taking 2 sick looking shots to the face from the steel steps. Ouch. Kane gets busted open and I'm not entirely sure it was a blade job tbh.

They brawl some more and then Undertaker pulls the mask off and Kane runs to the back covering his face. Ok. Fun brawl, but that's about it. Their NOC FIGHT was better than this imo, and of course WM 14 was better because that was awesome. And SD 08 too duh.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Rock Vs Triple H Vs Kurt Angle - WWF Championship*

Storyline going into this was AWESOME. Loved it. Adored it. Masturbated to (Stephanie) it. Then this match happened. And it almost ruined everything because it fucking SUCKED. Will I like it more this time around? Probably not but hey, optimising and shit!

HHH and Angle fight while The Rock, the uber babyface, the people's champion, the WWF champion, sits in the back like a fucking coward because he doesn't want to fight 2 men. Pathetic. Angle goes head first into the floor when the announce table dies on him during a Pedigree and is legit knocked out. And this is where Angle's brain dies and he slowly starts becoming an annoying fucker in the ring who couldn't tell a damn story to save his fucking life unless someone smart was wrestling with him (Benoit WAS smart but we all know what was up with HIS brain so I guess we can excuse him there. Wrestling wise, not family murdering wise, obviously).

So with Angle taken out, Rock decides to show his face finally. Cowardly cunt. 

DAMN, Stephanie looks smoking fucking hot. She comes down to the ring after Kurt gets taken away and her tits just bounce all the way down the ramp as she walks. She also decks HHH in the face with the title belt. GOAT DIVA NOT NAMED LITA (FAP FAP). OR MICKIE JAMES (FAP FAP). OR TRISH (FAP FAP).

HHH is a cunt. An absolute cunt. He sends Stephanie away . Now I'm stuck watching him pretend he's awesome and The Rock pretending he's a wrestler. Bah. 

I like how the match is No DQ but JR is going fucking apeshit because HHH uses the Sledgehammer. Like the RR street fight with the barbed wire 2x4. IT'S NO DQ JR, SLEDGEHAMMER AND BARBED WIRE 2X4 ARE PERFECTLY LEGAL. Good job he's the most awesome commentator of all time or I'd rip him a new one.

Fuck me this is DULL. HHH and Rock, ok, aren't my favourites. Rock is right there as one of my least favourites ever, if not THE. But in 2000 they did have great chemistry. Backlash match is AWESOME. JD Iron Man is AWESOME. I thought an hour long match involving ROCK AND HHH was awesome. That's insane, but true. Yet here, these guys just fucking BLOW. And not in the way I want Stephanie to blow (me).

STEPHANIE HOT TITS IS BACK FAP FAP FAP!!! Dammit she's brought Angle back too. BOOOO. Stephanie should be PUNISHED for that. I'll do it. 

So Stephanie FAP FAP HOT TITS uses her sexy body to convince Angle to come back and help HHH. So Kurt comes back and screws HHH out of the title. LOL. So HHH decks her pretty little face. What a women beating cunt. Steve Austin would never do that! Oh wait...

Rock wins. Fun times were had by nobody. This sucked. They had a better triple threat on both Raw and Smackdown around this time.

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 13*​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Candidate for my next sig quote...

"Rock wins. Fun times were had by nobody." ~ Cal

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That seems like a shit PPV TBH besides TLC

I'll be skipping I guess


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Candidate for my next sig quote...
> 
> "Rock wins. Fun times were had by nobody." ~ Cal
> 
> BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Wow. That review had GREAT PSYCHOLOGY!!!!11!!!

Kidding.

Anyway that was a hilarious read, and MachoMadness is right that could easily be the quote of the year for me :lmao

I will disagree with you to the death about 2/3 Falls Jericho-Benoit being a good match, but everyone has their own opinions I spose so nothing wrong wit dat. Holmes. Yo.

I wasn't a fan of Summerslam 2000 as a whole, 2-3 matches being good doesn't save the card. The main event might be the worst SummerSlam main event ever. Just trash. Except for Steph's tits, those are not trash. They're silicone. And hot.

Can't wait for your next review sir, props, both the ones you've done recently had me laughing out loud. Or something.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh yeah just because I'm skipping the PPV does not mean I did not LOVE the review. It was as funny as can be sir!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm not usually a fan of fake tits but Steph had a very good doctor!

I just threw in disc 3 of the Steamboat set. First match US title match in 89 Steam v Lex Luger. Man I couldn't stand Luger. Boring as hell IMHO. Remember the Narcissist gimmick in WWE for like 9 seconds?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> *Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - 2 out of 3 falls Match*
> 
> Second fall starts with Benoit locking in the Crossface again straight away. Yet this time Jericho manages to hold on even longer... AND get to the ropes. Uhhh ok. Makes no sense lol.


Considering he'll completely lose the match if he taps again, it makes perfect sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Considering he'll completely lose the match if he taps again, it makes perfect sense.


But he'd held on for a stupid amount of time in the first fall to begin with, then got put in the hold right afterwards and lasted longer . NO SENSE.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Why was Luger so over? Why? Hit, grunt, no sell, grunt, pop your roids, grunt, flex, grunt, closeline, grunt.... repeat repeat. Though his matches with Flair were usually good. Again, Flair could get a **** match out of a broom in his prime.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Considering he'll completely lose the match if he taps again, it makes perfect sense.


Exactly. That match was really good, not even close to as good a match as those two are capable of having but not bad by any means. It would have been the best match on the card if TLC didn't completely revolutionize tag team wrestling on the same night


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal's insane. He severely underrated the last three matches on SummerSlam. 

TLC I is flawless and is pretty much the definitive insane "spot heavy" gimmick match, Undertaker vs Kane clubberin the bejesus out of each other is :mark:, & the triple threat is a blast. Actually a fun wild Attitude Era match that didn't get old after five minutes. 

Dammit Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal's insane. He severely underrated the last three matches on SummerSlam.
> 
> TLC I is flawless and is pretty much the definitive insane "spot heavy" gimmick match, Undertaker vs Kane clubberin the bejesus out of each other is :mark:, & the triple threat is a blast. Actually a fun wild Attitude Era match that didn't get old after five minutes.
> 
> Dammit Cal.


<3 you too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> As for DD/MM/YY, ironically enough I use that format in everyday life but when it comes to matches I reverse it. Maybe it's because it's American wrestling I'm not sure, but somewhere along the way I dropped the old format and used American dates even with Japanese or Lucha matches. Think it's become such a habit when it comes to reviews that I'm predisposed to it habitually from here on out.


I'm Australian so naturally I have the D>M>Y way of doing things outside of wrestling, and I ued it for wrestling for years, but I had to cave in and use America's dating. Stuff just got SOOO confusing. 'wait is that June 3rd of March 6th?' "Yeah1993 when you said 8/4/02 did you mean the 4/8/02 match?" Ten I'd go looking for multiple matches that I thought were on a certain date, WEREN'T, and didn;t even exist.

I only dislike 'psychology' because nobody seems able to perfectly define it, and those who DO define it to any degree have a different meaning than someone else. Also I don't think 'no psychology' is a thing. Every match has psychology, there's just 'good' or 'bad' psychology. Then again, like I said, I have little idea what psychology even is.



cjack828 said:


> When I say that a match had "good psychology" I mean that the moves that were done made sense and that the match was built in a sensible manner. I assumed this thread had people that know enough about wrestling that I wouldn't have to elaborate and say "it made perfect sense that Guerrero didn't do his 3 amigos suplexes because Benoit had been working his back all match" etc. * Things that will make me say a match had "bad" psychology include but aren't limited to: a wrestler working a limb all match only for it to go no where in the end (ala Malenko working Mysterios arm all match....wtf is that gonna do.)* a wrestler getting his leg worked for 10 minutes only for him to nip up and super kick the other wrestler immediately afterwards (a lot of HBK matches from the 90s had this and it drove me nuts) or things like a wrestler attempting a super plex in the beginning of a match all will make me say a match had "bad psychology". The easiest way to say it is good wrestling psychology is doing the right thing at the right time as it pertains to both of the wrestling characters that are fighting. * Generally bad wrestling psychology is anything that takes away from the realism of the match I'm watching.* Proper selling I guess can also be lumped into the "Wrestling Psychology" umbrellea. It can also mean building the match in the proper manner so it keeps getting more and more exciting until it finally crescendos in the end with the finish. See Orton, Randy and Foley, Mick from Backlash 2004 for one of the finest examples of building an amazing match that constantly tops itself until the final ending crescendo.


This post was a good explanation of what psychology could be, but yeah, it's still a 'could be'. Everyone KNOWS what 'selling' means. Everyone KNOWS what 'kayfabe' means. Everyone knows what 'Kick in the face' means. These have set-in-stone definitions and psychology doesn't. Like I said this was a good idea of what probably (...?) is. 

I bolded the parts I bolded b/c I find it interesting. I do agree that 'psychology', if I were to even talk about it (AND I AM I THINK), would involve realism in wrestling. But how unrealistic is Malenko working Rey's arm? I mean, it's not a good strategy kayfabe-wise, sure, but it's not unrealistic at all that one wrestler would work the arm of another wrestler, right? Does 'psychology' affect kayfabe decisions? Wrestlers in the kayfabe world are bound to make stupid mistakes match after match. I don't think anybody would look at Malenko working Rey's arm and think 'Fake. If this was real he'd work the leg'. I don't like Dean working the arm because this was Rey's debut where he should have been flashy, and he kind of WAS at the end of it meaning the arm work was for nothing (and not really fun to watch IIRC). But is it bad 'psychology'?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> <3 you too.


I scare b/c I care.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate to get into this convo, but isnt there a slight difference between "psychology" and "storytelling" or I may be wrong, not a huge difference just alittle


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam 2000 is gotta be one of the most overrated PPV's ever. It's superfun and all but people put it on a Godlike pedestal.

And because I'm bored so imma give this a go:

the ranking of ALL WWF/E PPV's ever. That's 284 shows for your tastes, ladies and gentlemen 8*D


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Ricky & Dustin Rhodes (if you will) v Arn Anderson and Larry Z.....fun tag match.

Damn ATF that is a hell of a project.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets go a whole month without an rankings or lists. See if that project can go down, lads.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

How about a kurt angle project instead ATF ? :lol

When was the last project ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Without taking a break between shows, that feat would take you 35.5 days .

GET WORKIN'

:HHH2

What Cody said. Tonight's not about wrasslin' anyways, it's about getting fucked up cause why not?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hopefully he is not in college or................ yea


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cal's bringing the 40 of Malt Liquor and reminiscing about the Boiler Room Brawl between Undertaker & Mankind.

We're on the same page. No denying that greatness.

& Cody's bringing the medicinal to aid him in his argument that HHH-Cena is the GOAT Mania Match. The atmosphere was too much for him.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The idea of ranking is always fun but it's tough for me. 

Onto Steamboat/Rude from Beach Blast, 30 minute Iron Man....unpopular opinion time, this rivals Bret/Davey at Summerslam....I think I like Bret/Davey better but this match is close.

I fucking love the Boiler Room Brawl between Taker/Mankind....fun as shit....watching that live was a blast


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins, considering I went through a Smackdown Six project in the past, that isn't as hard as it looks :kurt

But yeah, that was a joke. I ain't doin' anymore projects for a while. I haven't even finished my Foley one for Christ sakes.

Btw, has anyone ever watched Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero & Chyna? That Handicap match is awesome stuff, great storytelling from all 3.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> What Cody said. Tonight's not about wrasslin' anyways, it's about getting fucked up cause why not?


Long been ahead of you on that front. :hayley1

Cena vs Trips has one of the most satisfying results I've ever seen. So, there's that.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Man I'm in the fuckin' BAG ATM heading over to campus in a few and seeing where that goes.

Cal, hop on your trolley and GTFO here. Cody too. Y'all invited. 

Fuck.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Long been ahead of you on that front. :hayley1
> 
> Cena vs Trips has one of the most satisfying results I've ever seen. So, there's that.


Isn't a HHH loss always satisfying for you? :lol

Can't imagine where were you when Benoit made H tap out in Madison Square Garden :heyman


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Raw is 3 hours from me tonight and I'm not there because.........? 

F my life!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll try and make sure I can focus a touch as I watch RAW tonight. If not; there's always tomorrow. Idk. Cesaro please.



ATF said:


> Isn't a HHH loss always satisfying for you? :lol
> 
> Can't imagine where were you when Benoit made H tap out in Madison Square Garden :heyman


It's so much better when you had a crowd filled with fuck-heads cheering Triple H to act "cool" only to get owned and shut up at the end of the night. Bliss. Heavenly bliss.

Benoit moment was more about Benoit winning since I had a feeling in my stomach he wouldn't get the W like he should have.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Lets go a whole month without an rankings or lists. See if that project can go down, lads.



I <3 lists. I can't make it through a day at work without making a list of what I need to do and ranking it by importance. Obviously that translates over to my other hobbies where I'm constantly ranking and listing the best shot blockers in the NBA, or best quarterbacks of all time, or favorite matches from 2012. I can see how that can get irritating to people after a while (believe me my friends have told me so) so I get you're frustration. Not every single thing in the world needs to be ranked and categorized, only OCD people like me think that way. Shit just needs to be able to stand on its own and appreciated for whatever goodness or badness it has.

Speaking of badness, Kevin Sullivan vs Chris Benoit at GAB is one BADass match. It's falls count anywhere and these two immediately take to the streets from the word "go" and start brawling all over the arena. They even make it in to the men's room and start slamming each others heads into the stall doors. Plus, the look on the people's faces that are just trying to take a dumpski when they see a rabid wolverine burst in with Sully close behind throwing haymakers = :lmao

Yes, someone's head does end up shoved in a toilet. I won't say who, it'll spoil the surprise. Immediately afterwards a roll of toilet paper gets thrown at him hahahaha.

They continue their brawling back down into the ring area and start working outside of the ring. By this point I'm 99% sure Benoit was banging the ex Mrs. Sullivan, and it comes through in their punches, as these two are just laying into each other. Benoit tosses Sully back over the rail, fetches a table from under the ring, places it on the top turnbuckle, and hits that mean old Taskmaster with a Super plex for the 1-2-3. 

I have to say, this was one hard hitting, highly entertaining, ass kicking brawl. Very very different from what you'd normally expect out of a Wolverine match, but in a good way. Benoit is obviously comfortable putting up his dukes and just straight throwing down with an opponent from time to time. This match was a great way to culminate a heated, personal, feud. High marks for all involved.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You must've "loved" the post-match happenings of Backlash '06 then, Cody 

Speaking of Haitch Haitch Haitch, let's hope he continues to deliever dem heel promos like last week. WHEN YOU WISH UPON A STAR, MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHO YOU ARE :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't have any trolleys any more, I lost my job, remember? 



Might just go to bed. Getting late here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

S'ok. Let him pander around thinking he's good. Cena won the match. I got what I wanted.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh how ironic is it that Triple H sang the Pinocchio theme song - dat obligatory Triple H nose joke :kobe


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cactus....best shot blockers ever!





















I lost my job in April. It was absolute hell for a few weeks. I feel you pain man. Stay at it and fight hard. Apply like crazy. It's like going to the bar. You hit on 20 women odds are at least 1-2 will say why not.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Where is this HHH dicussion going ? Nowhere like the up and comers on his watch


What is this Foley greatest hits and misses and how much does itcost ? Never ordered a dvd ever


Edit: Why is Dwight Howard's picture in this thread


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Where is this HHH dicussion going ? Nowhere like the up and comers on his watch
> 
> 
> What is this Foley greatest hits and misses and how much does itcost ? Never ordered a dvd ever
> ...


Buy this now. Cheap as fuck.

http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Foleys-Gr...=mick+foley+greatest+hits+and+misses+hardcore


Dwight Howard a better shot blocker than Hakeem or Manute Bol? Pshhhhh. Nobody touches Hakeem in his prime. Though as a Rockets fan I'm excited to have Howard.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Where is this HHH dicussion going ? Nowhere like the up and comers on his watch
> 
> 
> What is this Foley greatest hits and misses and how much does itcost ? Never ordered a dvd ever
> ...


Here is the Foley DVD:

http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Foleys-Gr...=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Foley+greatest+hits+bonus

You shouldn't order that one, you should try and find the "Bonus Hardcore Edition". That one has his match with Orton, Edge, ONS, and I Quit with Ric Flair.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Here is the Foley DVD:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/WWE-Foleys-Gr...=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=Foley+greatest+hits+bonus
> 
> You shouldn't order that one, you should try and find the "Bonus Hardcore Edition". That one has his match with Orton, Edge, ONS, and I Quit with Ric Flair.


Agreed get the hardcore one. Its hard to find though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm still sad that we didn't get a Punk/Foley match last year


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Foley v Ambrose Hardcore Match WM XXX


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Is Foley healthy enough to work another match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

thank you gents, that match list is eye-popping in a good way

Edit: foley is done for good

I may be the only person on this planet that hasnt seen foley/taker KOTR 98


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Foley is done but it won't stop be from hoping he has one big bump left in him vs Ambrose.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I don't think that Ambrose cand drag a battered Foley to a good match


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I think it's more likely that Foley would drag a good match out of Ambrose. Not that it'll ever happen now.

Ambrose has done nothing for me in singles action in the 'E.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Speaking of badness, Kevin Sullivan vs Chris Benoit at GAB is one BADass match. It's falls count anywhere and these two immediately take to the streets from the word "go" and start brawling all over the arena. They even make it in to the men's room and start slamming each others heads into the stall doors. Plus, the look on the people's faces that are just trying to take a dumpski when they see a rabid wolverine burst in with Sully close behind throwing haymakers = :lmao


Punchfests like that always make me laugh. A match where they make their way through an arena with a millions of punches being exchanged. :lol

As I'm preparing for Raw, I decided to watch some random match and went with Undertaker vs Edge from SummerSlam. Excellent and way better than I remember it being. It's a complete destruction! ★★★★½.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Said it before and I will say it again, Ambrose is a phenomenal storyteller not a phenomenal tehnical wrestler like Rollins or a powerhouse like Reigns. He needs longer matches to show his greatness. From The Shield for me, Seth Rollins seems like the complete package


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Duke Silver said:


> Ambrose has done nothing for me in singles action in the 'E.


I don't disagree. When the Shield breaks up he will have his shot. He needs more mic time too.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Ambrose definitely peaks in the storytelling department. What's unfortunate is that he hasn't adjusted to the WWE style very well. His singles matches have actually been quite boring. When a majority of WWE matches are 5-8 minutes, that could be a real problem for him. Even though his character/mic work is obviously his strong suit. 

The only times I've really been impressed with Ambrose in singles action since signing with the 'E was in FCW. The Shield stuff has obviously been beautiful.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

if we're talking about Foley I will be watching WM 22 between commercials on RAW tonight and I am like halfway through the Edge/Foley match. 

Loving it so far


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Foley/Edge at WM22 is my second fave 2006 match behind Angle/Taker at No Way Out. Effin love it.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Foley/Edge exceeded every expectation I had for that match, and it was such a joy to finally see Foley get that 'Mania Moment'.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Whos watching RAW? I dont feel like chatting in the butthurt marks discussion thread


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Irony is HHH complaining about Daniel Bryan's ego.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Whos watching RAW? I dont feel like chatting in the butthurt marks discussion thread


I am. Great opening segment and good promo. Nice to see Orton finally speeding up his talking.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cody Rhodes vs Orton :mark: 

Hope Cody isn't taking time off to get married


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Rosa in that red dress! :datass


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Duke Silver said:


> Foley/Edge exceeded every expectation I had for that match, and it was such a joy to finally see Foley get that 'Mania Moment'.



You can say that again. I have Foley/Edge as my MotY for 2006, it was a bloody, brutal, masterpiece. Edge's appearance when that match ends :mark:

No one deserved a Mania moment more than Foley, his match with Edge stole the show and it made everyone remember, in case some idiots forgot, that Michael Francis Foley is one baaaaaad motherfucker. His ONS match with Edge, Dreamer, and Funker just cemented his status. And I Quit with Flair was just cream on top. What a career Mick had, I will never ever get tired of his matches. He was a true one off. Often imitated, never duplicated.

Speaking of imitated, didn't Ambrose legit confront Foley at Mania and accuse him of leading a generation astray? Anyone know the real deal with that? 

On Raw, it's nice to see Orton stepping his promo game up, I don't want Haitch to be his mouthpiece for this feud. Before his Viper era stuff the past few years, I thought Orton was one of the top heel promo men in WWE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ haha it was a work buddy, they were going to have a feud and have a match at summerslam 12 but it got nixed because of foley's health


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ haha it was a work buddy, they were going to have a feud and have a match at summerslam 12 but it got nixed because of foley's health


God I love looking like a complete mark hahahaha


I wasn't a member of any forum then so I didn't know the real scoop, I just heard that Ambrose confronted him and blamed him for hardcore wrestling or something. 

To be honest, I'm glad he didn't get in the ring. I never watched 1 single TNA match with him, so my last memory of him is his I Quit match with Flair, a personal dream match of mine that actual lived up to my expectations. I've heard his Lockdown match with Sting wasn't half bad though.

Foley will be in pain for the rest of his life and I'm sure he will suffer dementia/Alzheimer's down the road. No need to accelerate it by a needless match with Ambrose.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I never get tired of Savage, Foley, Bret, Punk, Bryan matches. That doesn't make you a mark. It makes you a fan. Have those guy had bad matches....of course. 

Ok, Dolph keeps getting buried like the pharaohs. Lame.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea no problem man, alot of ppl at the time thought it was real as well

You should check out that tna foley/flair match, its amazing I watched it this week. Yea he fucked up for life, but he looked good at thw 2k14 panel so idk

Why does Ryback have to squash Ziggler ? why why why, gonna go lay me bed in my pillow now, Why you no like Dolph Vince ?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Los Matadores is Spanish for the Matadores.

Steph is so effin hot. I wanna play carnival with her. She can sit on my lap and I can guess how much she weighs.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That was awful, why does Dolph keep getting squashed? Such a damn waste, it's not even getting him over its making people tune out. They just KILLED his momentum from Payback.

I will have to check out Foley vs Flair from TNA, I just totally mark seeing those two in the ring together. Any idea what date or PPV it was on?

Foley seems great now, and he deserves it. For all you people I don't know whether you guys believe in god or what, but most people like me atleast believe in karma. Foley is one of the most giving people in the world and does a ridiculous amount of charity work each year. I think all that good karma he has built up is keeping him healthier than any normal being should be after the insane amount of punishment he took between 1988-2006. There is no other logical explanation for him still having the ability to walk and speak and think after a career like that.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

7/10/10

actually 10/7//10 fuck those stupid dates


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

EDGE ON RAW NEXT WEEK! Yay!!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Big Show- "HULK SMASH"


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WCW Souled Out 1998:

8-Man Tag- ***1/2
Raven/Benoit- ****1/4
Y2J/Mysterio- ***
Booker/Martel- **1/2
Hall/Zbyszko- DUD
6-Man Tag- DUD
Giant/Nash - *
Flair/Hart- ***1/2
Luger/Savage- *

This was one of the best WCW PPV's that I had the grace to see. The show started with 3 great matches, with Benoit/Ravem being one of the best non-ECW matches that I have seen from Raven. Than Flair and Hart tore the house down in the co main-event. The opener was a great 10 minute non-stop cruiserweight action and the Jericho/Mysterio match was good, but it could have been better. Anyway great show


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

That Flair/Hart match was sick at Souled Out. Wish that would have made Bret's unreleased set.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Souled Out 1998 was really good. Certainly one of the best WCW PPVs I've seen.

EDIT: Add Cody/Randy to the list of good RAW matches this year.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★1/2 for the Orton/Rhodes match. Cody Rhodes' babyface comebacks were great. Orton's control segments were solid also. Good match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Great TV match for me. 

Orton/Cody ***1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

***1/4 for Cody/Orton. Really good match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Very good tv match there between Orton/Rhodes. Sooooo Cody is legit getting married and going on a honeymoon and will be back in like a month? Cool. 

Damn Best of Raw/Smackdown 2013 is going to be amazing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> ***1/4 for Cody/Orton. Really good match.


That's what I'd rate it too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Why was Luger so over? Why? Hit, grunt, no sell, grunt, pop your roids, grunt, flex, grunt, closeline, grunt.... repeat repeat. Though his matches with Flair were usually good. Again, Flair could get a **** match out of a broom in his prime.


Hahaha. So many grunts, I also notice throughout the 80s Luger liked to grab his crotch every other move like he had an itch or something.  Completely random but yeah, anyway. I really enjoy some 80s Luger and I have no clue why. Plenty of good matches with Steamboat, Flair, Pillman, Jesse Barr, etc. 



HayleySabin said:


> Lets go a whole month without an rankings or lists. See if that project can go down, lads.


:yes



redskins25 said:


> I may be the only person on this planet that hasnt seen foley/taker KOTR 98


But certainly you've seen the highlights 433 times right?



MachoMadness1988 said:


> Damn Best of Raw/Smackdown 2013 is going to be amazing.


It will, but since it's only 3 discs instead of 4 like it was in 2011, there's gonna be SO much left off. People are gonna complain so hard about this match or that match getting left off and some random Ryback squash making the cut, so don't expect it to be as good as it really _could _be. There's just been way too much good shit out there this year for it all to make the set, which really sucks.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I liked Lex as a face like 88ish but when he was feuding with Sting (like 1990-1991ish) I haaaaated him. He was carried to some good matches though with Flair, Steamboat, Sting, etc. 

I heard Best of Raw/SD 2013 is 4 discs and 3 blu rays. Is it not? Ugh. Really as long as Cena/Punk (commercial free please), Hell No/Taker v Shield and a bunch of Bryan I'll be ok.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So, Trips making people his bitch makes me mark like a 12 year old. Like, seriously. 

Rhodes/Orton was pretty entertaining tonight. Cody's promo before he left was also pretty good. Does everyone else notice the number of shoot-style promos lately? Cody tonight, AJ last week. I know it's just two, but these used to be very few and far between.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Searched for any info on the set and didb't find anything tbh, just kind of assumed it would be 3 discs like last year's edition.

----------------------------------------

Been watching some 2010 RAW shit for the hell of it the past couple nights. Cena vs. Sheamus from 1/25 is really, really good. Sheamus was being so strongly pushed and he just absolutely dominated Cena. Cut him off every time Cena would gain the upperhand and the hope spot for the STFU was great followed up by a close call countout sequence. Shame Orton had to ruin it with the DQ but a very strong TV match for sure.

Sheamus vs. Bryan from 10/11 (October 11th) is a really good sub-5 minute affair. Bryan looks for revenge after Sheamus beat the fuck out of him the week before. The winner got a spot on Team RAW at Bragging Rights I believe. Bryan puts up a great fight and gets a damn close near fall out of desperation until being murder by a brogue kick. Fun stuff.

What are everyone's opinions on Taker vs. Swagger from 4/19? It got a whole lot of time but it just felt flat to me. Swagger worked the leg but it was pretty boring legwork, didn't really do much. Just a lot of the same stuff from both guys, nothing standout for me.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Topic of best "big men" came up on another thread. I think this would be a fun 3 disc (2 blu ray) WWE set. 

Matches from guys like Andre, Taker, Vader, Yoko, Kane, Show, Bam Bam, Bundy, Umaga, Diesel, Big John Studd, Kamala, etc.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Luger was really good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Topic of best "big men" came up on another thread. I think this would be a fun 3 disc (2 blu ray) WWE set.
> 
> Matches from guys like Andre, Taker, Vader, Yoko, Kane, Show, Bam Bam, Bundy, Umaga, Diesel, Big John Studd, Kamala, etc.


You know what, that's a hell of an idea and one I could realistically see happening.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Luger was really bad.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

After seeing a compilation of Luger's over-selling on Botchamania, i cant watch a match of his without noticing it and lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I definitely agree Luger oversells some stuff (well not really oversells, but he kind of YELLS all the time...vocal overselling, I guess), but where is evidence of Luger being bad? Pre-98 or so, anyway.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

To the Dusty matches comment, atm fresh on my mind is the match with Blanchard on WWW, ep was March 4th 86. Another one with Blanchard is June 13th 1987. Was on an episode of WWW again I recall, and then the GAB match 07/26/86 with Flair


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Uhh ok... I like one Lady Gaga song? That good enough?


Meh. I catered as a joke. I'm over it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some star ratingz for Punk/Trips match from NoC? I remember really liking that match and giving it a ***3/4 rating


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

2:23

One day that needs to be a reality. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Foley RR 00 might be the only match I'd put ahead of the WM 28 HIAC match tbh as far as HHH matches go.



I have to admit, that "End of an Era" HiaC isn't even close to the top of the list of best matches those two had. I prefer their match at WM17 over HiaC by a considerable margin. Pretty much every Foley match Hunter had was better than it, and Undertaker probably has atleast 30 matches I like more than that one. That's not to say its an outright bad match, because it wasn't. I just found the whole thing to be way too contrived. Watching Hunter scream over and over "You end it Shawn!!!" Isn't a recipe for an exciting match. And from a storytelling stand point it came off as forced drama, as opposed to the amazing drama and character work that Taker had to end his WM26 match with Shawn. Those 2 minutes or so in the end of WM26 are some of the finest character work ever done in a ring.

I'm in a Lucha Libre mood after all the Rey I've been watching, anyone got any AAA, EMLL, or Chikara match recommendations?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> am I the only one (most likely I am) that thinks HHH V Undertaker WM 28 is HHH's best match ever?


It's close, but the WM XX triple threat is higher, and the Batista HIAC is higher (or at least even). I'm doing a top 100 Trips project which will hopefully be finished by the end of the year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> It's close, but the WM XX triple threat is higher, and the Batista HIAC is higher (or at least even). I'm doing a top 100 Trips project which will hopefully be finished by the end of the year.


I expect Foley to be littered all over the top 5-10 of this project. Don't disappoint me


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I can think of the three obvious ones off the top of my head.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Never got the 5 star vibe from HHH V HBK V Benoit at WM. 

Its a great match but it doesn't strike me as a GOAT match at all


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If it makes anyone feel better, I have ZERO Triple H matches at *****. Forgot, the 3 Stages of Hell at NWO 2001 is also in my top 5.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

iwatchwrestling said:


> If it makes anyone feel better, I have ZERO Triple H matches at *****. Forgot, the 3 Stages of Hell at NWO 2001 is also in my top 5.


If you had said the 3 stages of hell with HBK I would have flipped. That's one of my least favorite matches ever.

Trips gets a lot of hate and most of it is at least semi justified, but I'd be lying if I said there weren't 10-20 triple H matches I really really like.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Never got the 5 star vibe from HHH V HBK V Benoit at WM.
> 
> Its a great match but it doesn't strike me as a GOAT match at all


To each their own. Imo it is cause it isn't the everyday 3-way, but one that's some of the most intense, physical and emotion I've ever seen.

Of course there's the Krispen factor but that doesn't bother me tbh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On the discussion regarding Dusty's commentary, I find him extremely entertaining based on the few matches I've watched that he's been commentating. (mainly Benoit/Sullivan) I really don't care if he doesn't make any sense, I just love hearing the man talk. :lol

And yeah, I consider WM20 to be HHH's greatest match. From singles matches, probably 3SOH with Austin. Although I haven't watched it in a while.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Foley from RR is Trips best match, imo. ****3/4 for it, followed by the WM20 match and his 3SOH with Austin


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't think those classics with Scott Steiner are being left out of the top 10 though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Don't think those classics with Scott Steiner are being left out of the top 10 though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH Top 5:

(****3/4)
1) vs. Foley RR 00
(****1/2)
2) vs. Batista Vengeance 05
(****1/4)
3) vs. Rock BL 00
4) vs. Jericho FL 00
5) vs. Benoit vs. HBK WM20


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Steiner @ RR '03 is the best at ***** :durant


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I blame STEINER for everything.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My personal favorite Triple H Matches:

1. Vs Foley at Royla Rumble
2. Vs Foley at No Way Out
3. Vs Benoit vs HBK at Mania
4. Vs Batista Hell in a Cell
5. Cactus Jack Introduction match Raw 1997
6. Vs Austin 3 Stages of Hell
7. Vs Taker at Mania 17
8. Elimination Chamber 2005
9. Vs Mankind KoR
10. Vs Edge vs Cena 2006

Special mention for his Ironman with Rocky, which is the worst match on paper that I honestly enjoyed.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

My top 5 HHH matches:

Foley RR 2000
Taker Mania 28
Taker Mania 27
Elimination Chamber 2005
Batista HIAC


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Finished with Raw. Mark Henry (who's injured btw) has nothing on Big Show as far as acting goes :show

Orton/Rhodes worked quite well. Their best match I guess.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

As much as I'm getting tired of seeing Big Show cry his eyes out, it does make me laugh. HARD. 

Trips making Show his bitch works for me though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Loved their NYR 2006 match, so I wouldn't mind seeing them go at it again. 

Was anything on Raw worth watching aside from Rhodes/Orton? I enjoyed that entire storyline. Puts Rhodes over big.

So far we have Ziggler/Rhodes/Show as the Bryan sympathizers.

Also, DAT BIG GUY SWAG.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Show had a decent last man standing match on Smackdown in early 2009 (or late 2008), but them together only works with Trips as the heel. Like most of his matchups.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The opening segment was hot, and Bryan/Show before the clusterfuck was a good little piece of storytelling. The Divas 3-way was also a hilarious trainwreck.

Don't forget DA MOZ in Team Dazzler :bryan2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Wait seriously? Miz is a part of that too? 

Guessing they're building to a huge Survivor Series classic elimination tag.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm so down for HHH/Show being a co-main event for a lesser PPV.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. Watch the last week Smackdown's 1st 30 mins.

Corporation (Randy rton, Haitch :HHH2, Dean :ambrose2, Seth :rollins & Roman :reigns) vs Dazzlers (Dazzler #1 :bryan2, Dazzler #2 :show, Dazzler #3 :ziggler3, Dazzler #4 :miz & Dazzler #5 :cody) 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Yup. Watch the last week Smackdown's 1st 30 mins.
> 
> Corporation (Randy rton, Haitch :HHH2, Dean :ambrose2, Seth :rollins & Roman :reigns) vs Dazzlers (Dazzler #1 :bryan2, Dazzler #2 :show, Dazzler #3 :ziggler3, Dazzler #4 :miz & Dazzler #5 :cody) 8*D


I would have preferred this angle to have someone other than Miz involved. Ugh. Oh well I'm happy Cody is getting involved and Ziggler needs something to do other than getting squashed by Ryback.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm so down for HHH/Show being a co-main event for a lesser PPV.


This.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Watching No Mercy 07. It's just like a Monday night RAW. It's a pretty fun show so far though. On HHH v Umaga at the moment. 
From what I remember the main event and the Batista v Great Khali match are both really good aswell. 
This PPV made Randy Orton look so weak though. Cena holds the belt for a year and he holds it for 20 minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Finished with Raw. Mark Henry (who's injured btw) has nothing on Big Show as far as acting goes :show
> 
> Orton/Rhodes worked quite well. Their best match I guess.


Their nov 11 FCA and raw match early this year smoke it tbh



The Lady Killer said:


> Loved their NYR 2006 match, so I wouldn't mind seeing them go at it again.
> 
> Was anything on Raw worth watching aside from Rhodes/Orton? I enjoyed that entire storyline. Puts Rhodes over big.
> 
> ...


I enjoyed show/dbryan but I'm a mark for David/Goliath, monster vs. little guy type matches so idk. Bryan has been having good matches with everyone the past few months besides Orton which is ironic :lol




iwatchwrestling said:


> Trips/Show had a decent last man standing match on Smackdown in early 2009 (or late 2008), but them together only works with Trips as the heel. Like most of his matchups.


They have another great match iirc in 2006 in the rtwm, you got me on the date though


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Feb 13th is the Raw Show/HHH match from 06 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport .


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Jesus christ, Tensai wrecking SHOP at 21:44 & 21:55 :datass

I really enjoy this match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dolph's bumps in that match :mark:

I should just go Meltzer and rate matches based on dem SPOTZ :meltzer


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ziggler died.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Dolph's bumps in that match :mark:
> 
> I should just go Meltzer and rate matches based on dem SPOTZ :meltzer


It's hard to say who my favorite was when it comes to spots in that match because IMO, almost all of them has some sick spots.

Tyson Kidd's facebuster thing to Ziggler was fucking crazy. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Most insane spot in MITB though is imo the original insane MITB spot - Shelton Benjamin goin' nuts and running off a ladder.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As much as HHH's appearance's wind me up most of the time, i'm enjoying the KOK music


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

34:16 I marked over Kharma's return.

That Kharma Bomb on Dolph. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yep out of 30 guys for khamna to show that she is stronger than, and make inferior to her, they choose Ziggler because "he a great bumper", I swear this company does this just for me

Its actually crazy how much sd mitb 10 smokes ever other mitb besides maybe the original and sd 13


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And SD 11 too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks to Cal for posting the link to Show/Trips from Raw 2006. This is a really nice TV match, and they do a nice job of tying in the NYR match with Show working over Trips hand early in the match. This will most certainly earn a spot in the Top 100.

Now that I've got my yard work done, some Trips tag matches are in order. The rest of the Evolution tag matches, DX/Rated RKO, some other DX tags.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Thanks to Cal for posting the link to Show/Trips from Raw 2006. This is a really nice TV match, and they do a nice job of tying in the NYR match with Show working over Trips hand early in the match. This will most certainly earn a spot in the Top 100.
> 
> Now that I've got my yard work done, some Trips tag matches are in order. The rest of the Evolution tag matches, DX/Rated RKO, some other DX tags.


I think I deserve some credit to for first saying :cool2

Seriously thats as good as it gets for a non-gimmick haitch match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yes, you brought it up. Credit where credit is due.

Trips/HBK from December 29, 2003 Raw is probably his best non-gimmick match, with Trips/Hardy from No Mercy right behind. Not counting the WM XX triple threat of course.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I havent seen that raw 03 match in a while, I remember it being good, I started hhh/hardy this week but didnt finish it, it was MOTN for me.

Thoughts of DX/jerishow tlc ? is it dogshit


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not even sure if I've seen it, but will watch it obviously. It's crapped on a good bit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Another 2000 PPV ramble on it's way later tonight. God I love WWF 2000. Even a lot of the "bad" shit is so much fun. Unlike the Russo years of the AE were the bad shit was TERRIBLE and far too often.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I havent seen that raw 03 match in a while, I remember it being good, I started hhh/hardy this week but didnt finish it, it was MOTN for me.
> 
> Thoughts of DX/jerishow tlc ? is it dogshit


TLC was fun from what I recall. Nothing extraordinary, but fun nonetheless.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> My top 5 HHH matches:
> 
> Foley RR 2000
> Taker Mania 28
> ...




I agree with 3..... My top 5: 

1. Vs Foley RR 00
2. Vs Undertaker WM 27
3. Vs HBK SS 02
4. Vs Batista HIAC
5. Vs Steve Austin NWO 01


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> And SD 11 too.


That's the one Daniel Bryan wins right? I remember someone (Sin Cara?) getting slammed threw a ladder at ring side and Sheamus clobbering motherfuckers left and right....like we expect Sheamus to do. That was an excellent match if its the one I'm thinking of....


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finished DX/Rated RKO from NYR 2007. Really good match, but damn this shows how much Triple H really cares about the business. Guy tears his quad on the spinebuster, then hits another spinebuster, ugly as it is, then hits two pedigrees, landing square on his knee both times, and basically walks around on his knee for 6 minutes after tearing it. 

Shawn going crazy at the end of the actual match was awesome. The Cyber Sunday match was pretty good, but nothing like NYR.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*King of the Ring 2000*

I do believe this might have been the first ever WWF DVD I bought.


*Rikishi Vs Chris Benoit - King of the Ring Quarter Final Match*

Not just your average tournament match here; both guys wanna kill each other. Which sucks for Rikishi because Benoit is known for it :side:. Anyway. The Kish beat Benoit for the IC title recently, and Benoit was NOT happy about it so he beat the fuck out of the fat man with a chair and locked in the Crossface. Benoit ain't done with Rikishi yet, and Rikishi is out for revenge. 

Fuck me, Benoit just hit a German. As in he performed a German Suplex. He didn't punch a German fan or anything. Yet.

Match doesn't get much time because, you know, PPV tournament with other matches taking place too. So they essentially have a nice little sprint (yes, Rikishi in a sprint match) that I have always liked. These guys had good chemistry, though tbh most people had good chemistry with Benoit, and Rikishi worked well with just about everyone in 2000 too. Great TV stuff with the likes of Benoit, Eddie, Triple H, Val Venis and more plus some PPV stuff too (cage with Val is :mark.

Rikishi escapes a Crossface by using the ropes, and Benoit is fucked off. Chair shots and Benoit is DQ'd, allowing Rikishi to continue on in the tournament, but his arm is FUCKED. I mean damn, more colour than a Clown's jizz.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


TONIGHT I AM JOE COOL. JOE COOL.


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Val Venis - King of the Ring Quarter Final Match*

Did anyone else really like Heel Val before he went Heel RTC Val? His feud with Rikishi was awesome, and VIOLENT, and awesomely violent. Made Val look legit. He had a great TV match against The Rock for the WWF Title when he was in the RTC soo and I would have loved for him to win (Rock hate aside, Val is just a great talent).

TRISH FAP FAP FAP TRISH. King rooting for Val so we get to see TRISH more tonight is great.

Eddie and Val are having a pretty good contest in the ring and the fans are chanting WE WANT PUPPIES. If it were LITA out there I'd be fine with it, but this is Val Vs fucking Eddie dammit. Stupid fans. Besides we'd probably end up with Chyna's man boobs instead of Trish's yummy women tits.

Match is just a fun back and forth contest that gets some not bad time all things considered. Plenty of cool moves and sequences but never feels like a move fest or any of that shit. Just some good old wrasslin.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


:lmao at Pat Patterson trying to find a women's outfit for his match later.


*Crash Holly Vs Bull Buchanan - King of the Ring Quarter Final Match*

So Crash is the "upset" guy in this tournament, beating people to advance when nobody thought he would be able to. Albert, Hardcore Holly, and SPOILER Bull Buchanan.

Big Bull comes out to ONE MAN GANG'S theme song. Tis a killer little theme imo. But Bull isn't a fatty so he isn't as good. But he's still good. I liked him. BRING BACK BULL. BRING BACK BULL. BRING BACK BULL.

So this is just a fun match with Bull bullying the little guy, and the little guy holding on until he can get a quick win that shocks the world. :lmao at Crash getting the 3 count and already being at the top of the ramp way before Bull can react.

*Rating: *1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Linda manipulates Vince into making the main event a fair 3 on 3 tag instead of 12 on 3 like SD last week. Man, I remember that match, was shown in full on HEAT. I didn't get to see Raw or SD at this time so Heat and the free PPV's were all I could get, so having a full SD main event match with guys like THE UNDERTAKER involved was just fucking :mark: for me.


*Kurt Angle Vs Chris Jericho - King of the Ring Quarter Final Match*

I predict the winner of this will win the entire tournament. GET ME ANOTHER BEAH.

:lmao at Jericho trying to be funny and insulting, saying Kurt is the King of shitty things... but when he says "nerds" the crowd goes oddly quiet, almost as if a lot of them ARE nerds . I know I am! And Kurt isn't my King.

Lionsault early into the match seems oddly placed, as in the odd placement of Kurt to take it so close to the ropes and shit. Ref counts to 2 then randomly stops. Kurt's leg WAS on the ropes, but I seriously doubt he could have seen it given everyone's position in the ring lol. TEDDY SCREWED JERICHO. HE'S GOT A FAMILY.

Fuck me, Teddy Long is terrible. I know people complain about Scott Armstrong's counts, but shit, Teddy seems to fall asleep every time his hand hits the match, then wakes up and realises he has to do it again. SO FUCKING SLOW.

WELL GOSH DARN, that cut off clotheslines from Angle is just WOW. Speaking of WOW, STEPHANIE FAP FAP MCMAHON. Jericho kisses her because, well, who wouldn't? Angle takes advantage and hits the Angle Slam to advance. I'd like to advance on Stephanie. Wink wink nudge nudge I wanna fuck her.

Solid match, best of the night so far.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


WWF NEW YORK. Shame it got too expensive for them as they slowly started to drop in ratings and not make as much money. FOLEY! With his new hair cut. Ivory is in the background getting Foley a drink and she is DESPERATE for attention. HEY MICK FOLEY. HEY MICK. I GOT YOU A DRINK MICK. Just take your top off and we'll give you plenty of attention. Can't hear a word Foley says. Crowd are chanting and shit so we don't hear anything until the end.


*Edge & Christian Vs 2 Cool Vs T&A Vs The Hardy Boys - Fatal Four Way Elimination WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

2 COOL ARE THE TAG CHAMPS!!! HOW "COOL" IS THAT? Not very tbh. Nobody lost their pants to win so yeah, kinda sucked.

T&A deserved a title run, but I guess if you were going for "shock factor" with a random title change and quick title run, 2 Cool were the better choice as heels doing that wouldn't have worked so well. And let's face it, E&C, Hardys and Dudleys were the only teams getting any REAL title chances at this time. They ran the entire division all year, but it was great to see other teams come in every so often to break up those 3 main teams constantly facing each other. APA. T&A. 2 Cool. Head Cheese.

LITA LITA LITA LITA LITA LITA TRISH IS THERE TOO BUT FUCK HER LITA LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP. SHE'S WEARING SOME FURRY BRA THINGY. I WANNA FEEL IT. AND HER BOOBS TOO. GROPE~!

Man, everything T&A do just looks nasty. I swear half of their offense could be used as finishing moves for a lot of guys lol. I mean Test uses a fucking gutwrench powerbomb, and I remember LITA (FAP FAP FAP) kicking out of it at Fully Loaded! Swagger uses it and like, wins titles and shit. T&A end up getting eliminated first . Though the finish is pretty spectacular.

SCOTTY 2 HOTTY! :lmao at him celebrating like crazy for hitting a shoulder block. Almost in a mocking heel way, but gets a huge pop because he's the working WORM KING. 

Poor King (Lawler), gets confused about the rules and claims it's not good for 2 Cool to stay on the apron and let E&C and Hardys go at it because they could lose the match that way. IT'S ELIMINATION YOU DAFT OLD TIT.

LITA (FAP FAP FAPITY FAP) keeps getting involved in the match, but because she's a face she gets away with it lol. Not that I could be mad at her for it . I talk way too much abou the divas that I should in these rambles.

Despite the sexiness of LITA, the Hardy Boys end up being eliminated anyway. Christian gives Matt the unprettier. If LITA got the unprettier she'd still be 1000x hotter than most of the divas.

:lmao JR: "I wonder what Grand Master's mommy and daddy think of that little move" King: "Well hahaha maybe you should ask them some time" . Always did amuse me when they did subtle references to Lawler being GMS' dad.

:lmao at Christian mocking the dance. He looked legit retarded. I mean 100% spastic retarded. He'll never be a future World Champ.

Speaking of retarded... EDGE AND CHRISTIAN ATTEMPT A DOUBLE WORM!!! Only for Scotty to interrupt and do the ORIGINAL WORM INSTEAD!!! W! O! R! M! OOOO OOOO OOOOO!

The Worm isn't enough though, and eventually E&C regain their belts. Fun, fun match. Nothing "great" about this as far as tag matches go, but I'll be damned if I didn't have a bunch of FUN watching it. Just wish T&A stayed longer, but it was understandable that they were the first to go.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Rikishi Vs Val Venis - King of the Ring Semi-Final Match*

I've got a Semi-Final for LITA.

What?

TRISH. 

Rikishi & Val :mark:. Damn, just realised that Fully Loaded hasn't happened yet. These guys have been feuding for THREE WEEKS up to this point... and they still have another month before their big grudge match! Oh man I can't wait for Fully Loaded. Cage. LITA & TRISH FAP. Last Man Standing. Rock Vs Benoit. APA. FALLING PANTS.

Match is a short, but fucking awesome, slugfest. Rikishi has the injured arm so Val goes after it, and Rikishi keeps trying to use his power to remain in the game. Val's face when he's on the ropes ready for the Money Shot and Rikishi gets back up is amazing. The Kish picks up the win, but damn, Val murders the shit out of the already injured arm. Crash Holly might have a chance at winning this thing once he gets past Kurt!!! 

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


WOULD YOU LIKE THE REGULAR PANTIES OR THE CROTCHLESS KIND? :lmao


*Crash Holly Vs Kurt Angle - King of the Ring Semi-Final Match*

Angle gets a bit of a pop during his entrance and he looks fucking GOBSMACKED for a few seconds lol.

Crash and Angle actually have some nice chemistry. Didn't they have a match on HEAT later in the year for the WWF title where Crash nearly won the damn thing? I seem to recall that being good. OMG I HAVE ALL OF HEAT 2000 ON MY PC. 

Good back and forth match here. Crash didn't look like a pushover which was kinda odd I guess but eh, Kurt gets the win and Crash doesn't look like a total chump so I guess it's fine. I liked it anyway. HUGE POP for Angle's win too btw!

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Pat Patterson Vs Gerald Brisco - First Ever Hardcore Evening Gown Match*

:lmao this pic says it all:










:lmao at Patterson in that wig :lmao

HOLD IT! YOU TOLD ME YOU LOVED ME!

Who the fuck thought this shit up? :lmao

Brisco coming out to Real American :lmao.

HE'S A REAL AMERICAN, BROTHER. :lmao

:lmao Patterson is loving this way too much. I wonder why... .

I WILL LAY DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING. YOU CAN GET ON TOP OF ME... :lmao

SHE LIKES IT :lmao

This entire thing is DUMB. RETARDED. STUPID. INSANE. Yet it's insanely hilarious :lmao. BIG HUGE MAXI PADS :lmao

2 old guys in drag beating the hell out of each other over the Hardcore title... and Crash Holly shows up and steals it back anyway :lmao.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The Dudley Boys Vs X-Pac, Road Dogg & Tori - Handicap Dumpster Tables Match*

So for DX to win, they gotta put both Dudley's in the Dumpster and close the lids. For Teh Dudlely Boys to win they gotta drive all 3 members of DX, Tori included, through a table!

TORI. She was hot. Underrated hot diva. Remember her outfit from WM 15? God awful match but DAMN what an outfit. Remember when she was the NINJA women helping Raven? That angle went NOWHERE.

Best part of the match is Devon doing the WAASSSSSUP thing right into Tori's vag and just keeping his head there after he lands :lmao. Fucking perve. Lucky perve, but a perve non the less. SHE MAY NEED THE BOOBOO KISSED!

Before the vag headbutt, I genuinely couldn't tell you anything that happened. After that, shit kicks off and the tables and dumpsters and shit come into play! DX trap those damn Dudley's in the dumpster, but instead of winning, the ref is checking on Tori's vag and doesn't see! Dudley's escape through the conveniently placed side hatches and surprise DX with chair shots. Thankfully nobody surprises me with chair shots. They just surprise me by never doing anything nice .

Road Dogg's table spot is cool. 2 tables stacked, Powerbomb off the steel steps over the ropes to the floor where the tables are. Me likey.

X-Pac gets superplexed through a table... and now that leaves TORI FAP FAP. So she runs into the dumpster to escape. Dudley's follow her, most likely to rape her inside it or something. DX hit them with chairs, they fall in and DX win, but don't know that Tori is inside!

3-D to DX, and Tori is alone again and she gets some Bubba Wood. This is tremendous fun, but only after the vagbutt. Everything before then I just can't remember, and everything after is just table and dumpster spots. Not good, but fun.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Rikishi Vs Kurt Angle - King of the Ring Finals*

OWEN HART MENTION~!

No Billy Gunn mention. Or Shamrock. THEY WERE GOOD KINGS TOO. :lmao

The Kish does a pretty sweet job selling his arm. Modifies his offense to compensate for the injury, sells it constantly. RIKISHI KICKED OUT OF THE OLYMPIC SLAM!

Is this the first instance of an Angle opponent going to the ropes for no real reason only to take a super overhead belly to belly? Damn you Rikishi!!! You started a terrible thing! You deserved to lose this match! Fat fucker.

Angle wins. Big pop. Good match.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*The Undertaker, Kane & The Rock Vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Vince McMahon - WWF Championship*

6 man tag, where the title can change hands even if Shane or Vince get pinned!

I'M NOT IN A CORNER! YOU'RE NOT IN A CORNER AND YOU'RE NOT IN A CORNER! Vince looks high.

SHANE'S A PUSSY~!

So he attacks Kane to prove everyone wrong. Kane gives Shane a free shot. Don't do NUFFIN. This is filled with pure FUN SCHTICK. Shane is the non wrestler, Kane is monster. Shane tries to avoid Kane at all costs. Kane wants to kill Shane at all costs. YEY!

The The Rock ruins it by tagging in. Shane keeps up the awesomeness though. UNDERTAKER TAGS IN!!!

SHANE HAS HAD A TASTE OF ALL 3 OF HIS ADVERSARIES TONIGHT. Uhhh...

Undertaker's one arm Chokeslams are awesome. Undertaker covers Shane and... The Rock ruins it by breaking it up. FUCK YOU ROCK. YOU RUIN EVERYTHING YOU CUNT.

Weird back body drop to HHH where he practically STICKS to Undertaker so 'Taker has to power him over. 

Ha, Rock gets what's coming to him with a 3 on 1 beatdown on the outside after he went ribs first into the announce table. What a cunt. 

:lmao Rock kicks out fo a Pedigree and the fans react like nothing happened. NOBODY LIKES YOU ROCK.

Rock is the pathetic loser who gets beat down by the heels. LOL. He gets owned by Vince and Shane. Vince pinned Rock on SD. Enters an elite group including such greats as The Hurricane. Eventually Undertaker and Kane get fed up of seeing Rock nearly lose constantly, so they attack Vince and Shane.

OMG KANE ATTACKED THE UNDERTAKER! Then he breaks up a People's Elbow and Chokeslams The Rock. All is forgiven! 

HHH thinks Kane has joined them. But nah, he just wants the title for himself and took his partners out so they can't stop him! TOMBSTONE TO TRIPLE H!

Undertaker murders his brother, then catches Shane on the ropes an decides to fucking Chokeslam him to hell and back. CHOKESLAM OFF THE ROPES THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE!!! THIS IS AWESOME CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP THIS IS AWESOME CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP.

Rock Bottom to Vince in the ring and... The Rock wins the title. By beating old man Vince. OH MY GOD HOW AWESOME AND GREAT IS THE ROCK FOR DOING THAT? HE BEAT AN OLD MAN FOR THE WWF TITLE WHAT A FUCKING LEGEND. YOU TWAT.

Such fun to be had here. I like how they work the story of Taker, Kane and Rock not really being on the same team because they are all trying to win the title, so they refuse to tag in and out and shit. Then it all comes to blows at the end. Shane is awesome in this. His schtick at the start with Kane was great. Plenty of good moments from him and then THAT CHOKESLAM. Vinnie Mac kinda does nothing but lose though.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 14.5*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ First time I see someone give the main event a good rating. A rarity!



iwatchwrestling said:


> Finished DX/Rated RKO from NYR 2007. Really good match, but damn this shows how much Triple H really cares about the business. Guy tears his quad on the spinebuster, then hits another spinebuster, ugly as it is, then hits two pedigrees, landing square on his knee both times, and basically walks around on his knee for 6 minutes after tearing it.
> 
> Shawn going crazy at the end of the actual match was awesome. The Cyber Sunday match was pretty good, but nothing like NYR.


Completely agreed. That's a hell of a match with the tag action at first and then the injury completely changing the course of the ending. Even the major botch when Orton ran in with a chair only to run back out was more hilarious than anything. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just rewatched Alberto Del RIo/Show LMS sd 1/13

- This is a fucking piece of art, and probably ADR's 2nd best in the company. He plays a damn good babyface in peril in this one, selling Show monstrous blows and hits, he actually gets the crowd behind him, what a shock. Big show being him usually great self when it comes to the slow and methodical beats the shit out of the smaller guy. I adore this match and its very high on my MOTYC list


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Game for you all.... Top 3 matches from each era.... 

Golden Age Era (84- 93) : 

1. Randy Savage vs Steamboat WM ****1/2

2. Bret Hart vs British Bulldog SS 92. ****1/2

3. Hulk Hogan vs Ultimate Warrior WM 6. ****1/4

New Generation Era: (93-mid 97) 

1. Steve Austin vs Bret Hart WM 13. ****3/4

2. Shawn Michaels vs Vader SS 96. ****1/2

3. Owen Hart vs Bret Hart SS Cage 94. ****1/2


Attitude Era: (97-02) 

1. Steve Austin vs The Rock WM 17. ****3/4

2. HHH vs Cactus Jack RR 00. ****3/4

3. HBK vs Undertaker HIAC. ****1/2


Ruthless Aggression Era: (03-08)

1. HHH vs HBK vs Chris Benoit WM 20. *****

2. Kurt Angle vs Undertaker NWO 06. *****

3. John Cena vs HBK WM 23. ****3/4


Pg Era (08-present) 

1. HBK vs Undertaker WM 25. *****

2. John Cena vs Cm Punk MITB 11. ****3/4

3. Cm Punk vs Brock Lesnar SS 13. ****3/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Really liking WM 22 so far. 

Yes I'm still watching it :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

We should consider doing the Wrestling Forum Official DVD/Match/Show Discussion Thread Hall of Fame - this thread is good enough to have its own HOF


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

I think I might have HHH/Benoit from No Mercy 2000 in my top 5 of HHH matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Really liking WM 22 so far.
> 
> Yes I'm still watching it :lol


Mania 22 is great. (Y) Love that PPV.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Mania 22 is great. (Y) Love that PPV.


Loved the Foley/Edge match. But Boogeyman/Booker T is on now


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL Boogeyman was so awful. (N)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cleavage said:


> I think I might have HHH/Benoit from No Mercy 2000 in my top 5 of HHH matches.


NM 00 is potentially next on my 2000 PPV Ramblings list. Didn't think much to that particular match on last watch at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KOTR 2000 is one of the worst PPVs I've ever seen. CRAPPPP


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> LOL Boogeyman was so awful. (N)


Cant believe the man was willing to eat live worms once a week....

Well its over now, Cal told me that this Mickie James/Trish Stratus match is the GOAT divas match, looking forward to it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not. But it's still good. Crowd was fabulous during it - probably more than any other women's match they've pumped out.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

KOTR 2000 isn't that good but I wouldn't call it crap.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Mickie's coming out party imo.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Thoughts on Power Trip vs Brothers of Destruction at Backlash 2001? Didn't think much of it my self.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Thoughts on Power Trip vs Brothers of Destruction at Backlash 2001? Didn't think much of it my self.


Better than the Power Trip Vs Benoit & Jericho. Not many WWF/E Tags I'd put ahead of it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WM 22 was an excellent, excellent show. Other than Boogeyman being involved I wouldn't really change a thing


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

James/Stratus was solid, IDK about the GOAT but very good nonetheless. Mark Henry vs the Undertaker up next,have heard bad things about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not nearly as bad as some say. It's just how Mark Henry or a lot of "big" men wrestlers never get their due. They're always too boring or whatever, yada yada yada. It's not the best match between the two, but it's fine. I have no problems with it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I love Mark Henry, but some of his stuff pre-2009 can be a little...bad, like his match with Angle at RR 06

Going in with low expectations, that always helps to making the match more enjoyable IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry's 2008 was pretty fabulous.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Henry's 2008 was pretty fabulous.


That was ECW year right? Yep that year was good, I forget when he went from a joke to a upper midcarder.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

feeling steamboatish, any recs ? Ive seen all the flair matches and wm 3


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> feeling steamboatish, any recs ? Ive seen all the flair matches and wm 3


Try SCSA vs Steamboat from Clash of the Champions 1994, haven't seen it myself but my friend said it was good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry's '08 on Smackdown wasn't even nearly as horrendous or embarrassing as you may think. He was more or less just lost in the shuffle till he got the ECW Championship. He's already had some good matches vs Undertaker & Batista prior to June. It was the tail end of 2007 for the guy where he was made to look pretty weak. Jobbing to Hornswoggle in a Handicap match and having the eventual blowoff No DQ match vs Batista be a flat out squash right before Survivor Series. Things weren't good for him at the time except for when he was on ECW w/BDV. _(ironically. that show was a nice support system for him.)_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So my project in the next few weeks is to watch all of the 2006 PPV's( and maybe some TV matches if you guys think their is any awesome ones, I'd probably st lump it in with the current PPV review). So look for a lot of 2006 material on here from me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips' 2000 is so fucking nice. vs Benoit at No Mercy is damn fine, as is vs Angle at Unforgiven. Two really good babyface performances, three if you count Summerslam, which is a really good triple threat. Ending of the Unforgiven match is weird, with Triple H telling Steph to choose between him and Kurt, then she just kicks Kurt in the nuts and watches as Trips gets the win. I'll need to read up on the aftermath of that as my memory of that timeline is really foggy.

Fully Loaded vs Jericho up next. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No Mercy 2006 is the best. Backlash '06 is a tremendously fun show all around too. Big fan of it actually. Rumble & Survivor Series leave a lot to be desired. SummerSlam isn't magnificent, but it's not as poor as some think. I'll gladly take it over something uber overrated like NWO '06. That PPV was kind of a chore to sit through until Orton vs Mysterio. Crowd flat out didn't care about anything till the last two matches - mostly Undertaker vs Angle. It was weird.

Random 2006 PPVs diatribe for what its worth.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just watched NWO and Rumble a couple weeks ago, so won't be reviewing that. Backlash 2006 is up after mania 22

If it wasn't for school I'd have this project done in a week or 2, but AP government does not want me to watch wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Awesome show. One of those that makes me miss brand oriented PPVs b/c they actually did deliver here and there.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

redskins25 said:


> feeling steamboatish, any recs ? Ive seen all the flair matches and wm 3


Steamboat vs. Vader
Steamboat vs. Jake "The Snake"
Steamboat vs. Rick Rude


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> No Mercy 2006 is the best. Backlash '06 is a tremendously fun show all around too. Big fan of it actually. Rumble & Survivor Series leave a lot to be desired. SummerSlam isn't magnificent, but it's not as poor as some think. I'll gladly take it over something uber overrated like NWO '06. That PPV was kind of a chore to sit through until Orton vs Mysterio. Crowd flat out didn't care about anything till the last two matches - mostly Undertaker vs Angle. It was weird.
> 
> Random 2006 PPVs diatribe for what its worth.


Did Backlash06' have that surprisingly very very good triple threat between Cena, Edge, and Hunter? It's on the Hunter set I own and I swear it's Backlash (I'm not at home so I can't check myself). They do this awesome spot where they take turns slamming Edges head into the announce table and Edge sells it so damn well. Also, Hunter pleads like an effing stuck pig.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Did Backlash06' have that surprisingly very very good triple threat between Cena, Edge, and Hunter? It's on the Hunter set I own and I swear it's Backlash. They do this awesome spot where they take turns slamming Edges head into the announce table and Edge sells it so damn well. Also, Hunter pleads like an effing stuck pig.


Yes! Really good triple threat match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mcmahon vs HBK on next, thoughts?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Night of Champions 2008:

Morrison&Miz/Finaly&Horn.- DUD
Chavo/Matt- *
Kane/Henry/Show- DUD
Jericho/Kofi- **1/2
Mickie/Katie- *3/4
Edge/Batista- ***1/2
Cena/HHH- ****

Overall: The 2 ME's delivered here, Edge/Batista was a good match and it could have been great with 5 minutes cutted from it. Cena/HHH was great, a much better match then their WM22 one. The rest of the card is pretty forgeteable.

Night of Champions 2009:

Legacy/JeriShow- **1/2
Dreamer/Christian- **
US Title 6-Pack Challenge- **3/4
McCool/Melina- DUD
Cena/HHH/Orton- DUD
Mickie/Maryse- DUD
Mysterio/Ziggler- ***1/4
Punk/Hardy- ***1/2

Overall thoughts: The first 3 matches were watchable, than we get a DUD's series. The WWE Championship match was just pathetic, a HHH/Cena match would have worked, but no one wanted to see orton in that match. When Philly cheers for Cena and Cole is bored then you have a problem. The last 2 matches were great good, with the ME being great, until that stupid finnish that dragged the rating a bit


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> am I the only one (most likely I am) that thinks HHH V Undertaker WM 28 is HHH's best match ever?


Yes.  It's not anywhere close for me personally. Matches with Foley, Austin, Rock, Benoit, & Michaels are all above it.



HayleySabin said:


> Stumbled upon this atm. Holy shit.


If that's the same one that's on Backlund's IVP Best of Comp and ends in a double dq/countout then I watched this one day and it just bored the fuck out of me. haha. A lot of Backlund's matches, or frankly the majority of WWF style matches from the late 70s and early 80s are just not for me at all. So slow.



Srdjan99 said:


> Some star ratingz for Punk/Trips match from NoC? I remember really liking that match and giving it a ***3/4 rating


Gets **** for me. Still think it's an incredibly fun, wild, overbooked brawl.



redskins25 said:


> feeling steamboatish, any recs ? Ive seen all the flair matches and wm 3


vs. Bret Hart (Boston Garden 3/8/86)
vs. Rick Rude (MSG 12/26/1987)
vs. Steve Austin (Clash of the Champions XXVIII)
vs. Lex Luger (Great American Bash '89)
w/ Shane Douglas vs. Barry Windham & Brian Pillman (Starrcade '92)


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching a bunch of Eddie G tonight. What a stud. Nothing he couldn't do.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is there a reason why Eddie was not very good in his first couple years in the WWE? Maybe I missed out on hidden gems, but Eddie was pretty weak in 2000-2001. It definitely didn't have to do with talent (or lack thereof) since this is Eddie freakin' Guerrero we are talking about.

Apparently we are going to get another listworthy match on Smackdown this week.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember him saying in his book (haven't read it in a while, but it's an awesome read) that his personal issues were probably at their absolute worst in his WWE run. Don't quote me on that though 

I also don't remember Eddie really working with anyone too notable in his first run either


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> If that's the same one that's on Backlund's IVP Best of Comp and ends in a double dq/countout then I watched this one day and it just bored the fuck out of me. haha. A lot of Backlund's matches, or frankly the majority of WWF style matches from the late 70s and early 80s are just not for me at all. So slow.


It might be. All I know is while I agree with you on the majority of late 70's - early 80's WWF being a pile of shit from most wrestlers, Backlund was one of the few whom I could always watch and have a great time doing so. Glad he was their champion for as long as he was. He was only one of a few workers who were entertaining. Even Andre's best stuff was more overseas than it was in the United States.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

First lot of matches of Starrcade 95 aren't fun to watch. Expected so much better. Commentary however is incredible. Didn't rly like Benoit/Liger, Wright/Kanemoto was rly poor as a story and Chono/Luger is a bit of a sleeper. And to throw in, Kimberley Page, while attractive, is impossible to look at when 'acting'. Holy fuck at the 'oh, no you didn't!' face to Ono.

Doesn't look to get much better unless the triangle match is fantastic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> *No Mercy 2006 is the best*. Backlash '06 is a tremendously fun show all around too. Big fan of it actually. Rumble & Survivor Series leave a lot to be desired. SummerSlam isn't magnificent, but it's not as poor as some think. I'll gladly take it over something uber overrated like NWO '06. That PPV was kind of a chore to sit through until Orton vs Mysterio. Crowd flat out didn't care about anything till the last two matches - mostly Undertaker vs Angle. It was weird.
> 
> Random 2006 PPVs diatribe for what its worth.












NWO is NOT overrated though. Well imo. The crowd sucked - what did you expect from St. Louis? Especially after remembering 6 years after that show the Brock/Goldberg-proportions debacle of a crowd during Raw 1000 :lol Every match was somewhat good too - even JBL/Lashley.

Imo Backlash is the overrated show. It tried to pull an ER '12 w/the double ME and RVD/Shelton but Jesus the rest was horrendous.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is there a reason why Eddie was not very good in his first couple years in the WWE? Maybe I missed out on hidden gems, but Eddie was pretty weak in 2000-2001. It definitely didn't have to do with talent (or lack thereof) since this is Eddie freakin' Guerrero we are talking about.
> 
> Apparently we are going to get another listworthy match on Smackdown this week.



Eddie was completely hooked on drugs during this time and was spending his nights drinking himself into a coma. He talks about it in the documentary WWE did for him and his book, he was even to the point of showing up at arenas wasted. Thats why Malenko and Benoit finally went to JR and told him that Eddie needed help because they were worried he was gonna hurt himself or hurt someone else. They sent Eddie to rehab and within like 2 days of getting out he was arrested for a DUI and that's when WWE finally fired him.

Anyone know where they have a video of a match between CM Punk and Eddie during his time in the indies before WWE hired him back? I'd love to see that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Eddie was completely hooked on drugs during this time and was spending his nights drinking himself into a coma. He talks about it in the documentary WWE did for him and his book, he was even to the point of showing up at arenas wasted. Thats why Malenko and Benoit finally went to JR and told him that Eddie needed help because they were worried he was gonna hurt himself or hurt someone else. They sent Eddie to rehab and within like 2 days of getting out he was arrested for a DUI and that's when WWE finally fired him.
> 
> Anyone know where they have a video of a match between CM Punk and Eddie during his time in the indies before WWE hired him back? I'd love to see that.


There's a Triple Threat w/Mysterio:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, thoughts on Austin/Flair & Show @ JD '02?


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Not a massive fan of that handicap match. It seems a little disjointed at times. It does start off really fun and there's some good ol' fashioned Flair heelin once him and Show take control, but overall I can't call it anything more than decent. I'm pretty sure Austin hits Flair with like 4 back body drops and 3 spinebusters throughout the match which I found to be strange. Also, towards the end of the match Austin keeps trying to beat Flair with the figure 4 despite the fact that Big Show isn't out of the equation and keeps breaking it up. I guess you could argue that Austin is "like a man possessed" and just wants to hurt Flair with his own move but it really didn't come across that way to me. The finishing stretch also fell a little flat for me. As I said though, it is a decent match and they keep it nice and simple with just a straight up heel/face dynamic and also the crowd were well into it. On the balance of things though, not really anything worth going out of your way to see.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Has anyone ever seen the _WWF Action!_ dvd? The extras look like they could hold some serious hidden gems:

WCW World Heavyweight Title: Booker T. vs. Kurt Angle (7/26/01)
Intercontinental Title: Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy (04/12/01)
Intercontinental Championship: Chris Jericho vs. Triple H (04/05/01)
Six-Man Tag: Edge, Christian & Rhyno vs. Bubba Ray, D-Von & Spike Dudley. (3/21/01)
WWF Heavyweight Championship: Kurt Angle vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin (01/08/01)
WWF Heavyweight Championship Steel Cage Match: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. The Rock (04/02/01)
WWF Heavyweight Title: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Chris Jericho (06/04/01)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Those two IC title matches need to be checked out immediately.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> NWO is NOT overrated though. Well imo. The crowd sucked - what did you expect from St. Louis? Especially after remembering 6 years after that show the Brock/Goldberg-proportions debacle of a crowd during Raw 1000 :lol Every match was somewhat good too - even JBL/Lashley.
> 
> Imo Backlash is the overrated show. It tried to pull an ER '12 w/the double ME and RVD/Shelton but Jesus the rest was horrendous.


St. Louis? That show was in Baltimore and I don't see the problem with the crowd. They were fine enough for the three main events and that's what matters!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> St. Louis? That show was in Baltimore and I don't see the problem with the crowd. They were fine enough for the three main events and that's what matters!


Oh, I got mixed up. I swear I remembered it being St. Louis. Then again, Baltimore never impressed me either (NM '03 iirc is a crowd I didn't enjoy for eg).

Whatever, NWO was still awesome. DAT BIAS :evil:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Has anyone ever seen the _WWF Action!_ dvd? The extras look like they could hold some serious hidden gems:
> 
> WCW World Heavyweight Title: Booker T. vs. Kurt Angle (7/26/01)
> Intercontinental Title: Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy (04/12/01)
> ...


Yeah i have that as part of the *Action & Hardcore (Tagged Classics) Set*:

http://www.wrestle-zone.co.uk/2011/tagged-classics-action-hardcore-dvd-review/

Think that's the one.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Oh, I got mixed up. I swear I remembered it being St. Louis. Then again, Baltimore never impressed me either (NM '03 iirc is a crowd I didn't enjoy for eg).
> 
> Whatever, NWO was still awesome. DAT BIAS :evil:



Ive been to events at both the Verizon Center in DC and in Baltimore at Comcast and The DC crowd blew the BMore one out of the water both times. Baltimore was a great city for WCW for a lot of years though. 

Can you sages of wrestling wisdom please recommend me some matches? I'm drawing blanks on what to watch when I get off work. I just watched Benoit vs Stone Cold Smackdown 2001 last night and it kicked all sorts of ass for any of you that might have not seen it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Try SCSA vs Steamboat from Clash of the Champions 1994, haven't seen it myself but my friend said it was good.


Yep! That match is stunning!! 

But no thats a damn good match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Ive been to events at both the Verizon Center in DC and in Baltimore at Comcast and The DC crowd blew the BMore one out of the water both times. Baltimore was a great city for WCW for a lot of years though.
> 
> Can you sages of wrestling wisdom please recommend me some matches? I'm drawing blanks on what to watch when I get off work. I just watched Benoit vs Stone Cold Smackdown 2001 last night and it kicked all sorts of ass for any of you that might have not seen it.


Of course Austin/Benoit kicked ass. Imo it's the GOAT TV match.

Go ahead and watch Matt/Helms and Londrick/James & Stevens @ NM '06. Both are very good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Of course Austin/Benoit kicked ass. Imo it's the GOAT TV match.
> 
> Go ahead and watch Matt/Helms and Londrick/James & Stevens @ NM '06. Both are very good.


I don't know about GREATEST, because there have been so many excellent, excellent matches on Raw and Smackdown over the years. I'd put it in my top 10 for sure, my favorite will always be Eddie vs Rey on Smackdown 6/23. That match is wrestling perfection, one of the finest heel performances by Eddie and also one of the greatest baby face performances by Rey, that I've ever personally witnessed. 

Thanks for those recommendations I'm gonna search them on YouTube now and add them to my playlist. 

What are some brilliant Foley TV matches? I've seen 90% of his PPv stuff I'm sure but I'm betting he had some great TV stuff as Mankind in 1996-1997 that I missed....


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

His matches w/the Harts are all brilliant, and I dug the one vs Maivia on a IYH show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upped Benoit/Austin recently if anyone needs it 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/wwe-m...t-vs-steve-austin-smackdown-31-05-2001-a.html


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rad. Been needing to watch it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on the Mick foley doc? Is it just a doc or are there matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There are matches. Doc's good, but if you're a Foley aficionado then there really isn't a WHOLE lot that's new information. One aspect is fantastic, I thought. (_deals with Vader for a good while)_ It's still worth seeing b/c it's Mick.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Which one? Foley has had a couple of docs. Hard Knocks and Cheap Pops is pretty good, sort of switches between kayfabe and shoot. Goes through his WWF career as a wrestler then switches to fun stuff with his run as Commissioner. And has some sweet matches as a bonus too. His latest DVD/Bluray release has a doc and is mostly awesome. Missing some stuff and didn't go into detail on some other things, but mostly great. Has matches too obviously. Greatest Hits & Misses set is just matches, but some sweet bonuses like the GOAT promos ever. 3 Faces of Foley is meh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Only thing I found interesting besides the doc being good is which he considers his "best match". I may be weird but I love hearing wrestler's favorite and best matches in their opinion

Edit": I'm assuming your talking about the most recent doc ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flat out assumed he meant the new one b/c it's the career retrospective.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*WrestleMania 22 review*​
This really is the only WrestleMania I have never even seen a single match from, the card looks bad, but it’s in Chicago so the crowds are awesome. The card looks meh since I have heard the WHC match gets only 10 minutes. This is the last WM held inside a regular arena so it’s kind of historic. 

*Match #1: Carlito and Chris Masters vs Big show and Kane(c) - tag match for the world tag team championship. *

Interesting choice to start the PPV as I usually think MITB is the perfect way to start a PPV, not tonight I guess. Kind of a boring match, the crowd does not seem to into it at all which puts a damper on things. One spot I liked was Carlito taking off the turnbuckle pad, but that’s really it. Kane gives the Chokeslam on Carlito and 1..2..3.. we’re done.**, poor opener to the night 

*Match # 2: Ric Flair vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Matt Hardy vs. Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley- Money in the bank ladder match*

Cal had been shitting all over this match since I brought it up, so very low expectations going in. 6 seems low for a MITB match, even though we had 6 in this year’s RAW MITB and only 4 in 2012’s RAW MITB. Too bad Flair gets taken out due to injury, man has some serious grapefruits doing spots like that at his age. BUT WAIT HE IS BACK! Thought that was legit. Huge pop for the RVD win which was fun. I disagree with Cal. I liked this MITB match but it was certainly not the best, but not the worst ethier. Lots of cool spots with Benjamin and RVD and it would be the prelude to an awesome Cena/RVD match that is my 2006 MOTY. *** ¾*

Hall of fame inductees are out, crowd boos when Fink says Bret Hart is not accepting his award. Very emotional Eddie Gurrero inductee moment, accepted by Vickie and Chavo, RIP to one of the all time greats 

*Match # 3: JBL vs Chris Benoit-singles match for the US title*

Pretty good match. JBL got some sad heel heat by mocking the late Eddie Gurrero. Crowd was shtting all over him because he is such a good heel. JBL was just using heel tactics left and right, so at one point the crowd looked really pissed. But then he won and everyone was just like “oh”. Benoit didn’t conquer the bad guy after his good friend just passed? Strange booking to say the least. *** ½*

*Match # 4: Mick Foley vs Edge- Hardcore match*

Joey Styles is on commentary and I’m marking out because he is one of the best commentators out there in my opinion. This is the match I’m looking forward to most because I have heard that it is just EPIC. This match felt like a classic ECW match with a high tech set. Just one of the most bloody, brutal, and fun matches in WWE’s history. So many awesome weapon spots, and the spot at the end when Foley is speared through a flaming table is PURE GOLD. This has to be match of the night, unless Cena/Trips pulls out a surprise :lol. **** ½*

*Match # 5: Booker T and Sharmell vs The boogeyman- Handicap match
*

This match made me nauseous. Not only was Sharmell shrieking the whole time, but the BOOGEYMAN was in it. This match SUCKED ASS. So bad, luckily they kept it short enough, but the Boogeyman ate two handfuls of WORMS. SO NASTY! ¼* 

*Match # 5: Mickie James vs Trish Stratus- singles match for the womens title.*

According to Cal this is the GOAT womens match, so obviously high expectations going in. Really solid match, especially for a womens match. They were given a reasonable amount of time and the crowd was into it, but it was funny seeing them cheer for Mickie James, who, I think was a heel at the time :lol. Good match overall, probably womens match of the year for 2006 but I haven’t seen enough of them TBH to say that. *** ¾* 

*Match # 6: Mark Henry vs the Undertaker- casket match*

I have heard nothing but negatives about this match going in, even though I like both guys, so low expectations going in to this match. It was a very OK match. It was a little boring but I am just not a fan of the casket match all around(Though its better than a buried alive match). I thought the crowd liked it but I really cant put my finger on it, I like both guys but, they just didn’t work tonight. They have had great matches since then but this just wasn’t one of them. Still, nothing terrible here. ** ½* 

*Match # 7: Vince Mcmahon vs Shawn Michaels- No holds barred match
*

A little hesitant going into this match because Vince does not always deliver match quality(see hart vs Mcmahon). But this was very damn entertaining. It was obviously not a technical wrestling match by ny means, but this was a FIGHT. Vince was 60 years old here and he is taking absolutely HELLISH hits. I got respect from Vice after this. So many cool spots and excellent storytelling from HBK, Vince, and Shane. Second best match of the night so far behind Foley/edge. **** 

*Match # 8: Kurt Angle(c) vs Randy Orton vs Rey Mysterio- Triple threat match for the WHC championship
*

This was just an awesome match all around. It was one of the most fast paced triple threats ever. Just so many cool spots that made this match so awesome. It was an awesome moment to see Rey Mysterio capture his first world world title in the wwe. The match was really short though, probably the only con. ****

*Match # 9: HHH vs John Cena(c) – singles match for the WWE title
*

I hated this match. This felt like the ME of a RAW or a c-PPV but longer. Crowd was all cheering for a heel HHH and this match just sucked all around IMO. This was unworthy of being the ME. I would have put three matches over it as the ME. Weak ending to an otherwise awesome PPV: *

*Overall PPV grade: **** 
*

Yes the most recent doc, watching it now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Flat out assumed he meant the new one b/c it's the career retrospective.


I try not to assume anything. Someone about asses and shit. I dunno. ASS MAN BILLY GUNN match on my screen right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KOTR 1999 BILLY GUNN.

Cena vs RVD 2006 MOTN. Gobsmacked. That's just as horrible as Cena vs Triple H from WM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> KOTR 1999 BILLY GUNN.
> 
> Cena vs RVD 2006 MOTN. Gobsmacked. That's just as horrible as Cena vs Triple H from WM.


I know you don't like HHH/Cena, but come on. That's just INSULTING.

I'd swap the ratings for the WHC and WWE title matches around.

HE'S AN ASS MAN.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought you were serious at first about cena/rvd good lord

I actually enjoyed that triple threat at wm 20, it gets way to much hate, what did you want a dull 30 min angle/orton match ? Although 2006 was Randell's peak year in-ring


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

**** for Angle/Orton/Mysterio? That pushes it far. I only have it at **3/4.

Though on ATF's Fun O'Meter, it's a solid ****1/4 (B+) 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I know you don't like HHH/Cena, but come on. That's just INSULTING.
> 
> I'd swap the ratings for the WHC and WWE title matches around.
> 
> HE'S AN ASS MAN.


If it means anything, I've watched Cena vs Trips more. If only for the ending; I still have. Both are just crap. lolz @ Cena vs RVD being a boring 20 minute squash.

KISS MY ASS MATCH. Bet that's one of your favorites.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

You guys dont like RVD/Cena? Maybe not MOTY but that is atleast **** 1/2* IMO

Really liked The triple threat. HATED the ME. Maybe I'm like a * over on the triple threat and a * under the ME.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never have. Never will. Their sub-eight minute rematch from RAW >>>> ONS match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/RVD on the *ATF Fun O'Meter* ranks as a solid ***3/4 (B) because of DAT MAD CROWD.

I should use the *Fun O'Meter* for everything now :hmm:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Crowd probably adds ** to the Cena/RVD match for me :lol

Foley doc is good so far.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have the triple threat around ***1/2 range


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh the *Fun O'Meter* is very, very strict. Only three ***** matches on that: Austin/Trips NWO '01, Angloit/Reydge NM '02 and Taker/Shawn WM 25. There are some close ones though - like Sheamus/Orton from Raw this year :

Wonder what y'all though about dat crowd.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rollin' with Cody on this one; Watched Cena-RVD for the Cena project earlier this year and thought it was pretty shitty, while the RAW match was really good for the time it was given. RVD's a guy that even though I know he's not an elite worker, I just don't give a fuck. 

He pretty much has a stoner gimmick. A STONER GIMMICK.

It was always cool to like that guy.

& FUCK THAT CROWD. Nothing worse than a bunch of fans trying to get themselves over at a wrestling show. Would much rather see effort exerted into giving a damn about what they are watching and giving an appropriate Boo/Cheer for whoever they like/dislike.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The crowd went quiet after the first five minutes, though. Best part was Cena trolling them with the 5 Knuckle Shuffle. :cena5


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

considering I live 10 mins from the area, its still my favorite raw of the year, loved the crowd


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm a big RVD fan. The ONS match vs Cena is more of a rare miss for my tastes. Most of his career has been spot on. vs Undertaker for example. Dream match fulfilled.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm currently rewatching RAW 2004 and I'm just halfway through but dang, this has to be one of my favourite years. Benoit on top, Randy's rise, Flair getting lots of promotime, Batista developing and HHH just doing in what he's the best in and that's being an asshole. Match quality wise there's nothing much to say, I've been enjoying most of the main events. Those mulitman tag matches with Evolution were just a blast to watch. Which leads me to the question on why they dropped Shelton's push? Obviously they were planning a huge push but he ended up being a midcarder for the rest of his career. I've never been reading dirtsheets back then so it would be nice if someone could enlighten me about this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cause he was black :troll


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What's you're all's thoughts on Los Guerreros vs Edge/Mysterio vs Kurt Benoit at Survivor Series? I watched that on the Eddie Lie Cheat Steal set and thought it was just all sorts of fun. The first finish that results in Benoit/Kurt being eliminated was :mark:

Plus I just live the Kurt/Benoit dynamic of two juice head jocks that hate each other yet have to try and work. If I had my own patented Fun o Meter I'd say it deserves high marks across the board....

Not big on RVD vs Cena ONS, but I will admit to secretly enjoying Cena vs Trips at Mania 22. Don't think less of me.

Hayley- Are you talking about that Hardcore title match Taker and RVD had back in 01' that totally kicked ass? Loved that match, I didn't see it live but I downloaded that show a few months ago when I found out that gem existed from zep81. So so sick. I remember lots of fighting off to the side of the entrance way and RVD bashing Takers skull in with a chair or trash can.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SonoShion said:


> I'm currently rewatching RAW 2004 and I'm just halfway through but dang, this has to be one of my favourite years. Benoit on top, Randy's rise, Flair getting lots of promotime, Batista developing and HHH just doing in what he's the best in and that's being an asshole. Match quality wise there's nothing much to say, I've been enjoying most of the main events. Those mulitman tag matches with Evolution were just a blast to watch. Which leads me to the question on why they dropped Shelton's push? Obviously they were planning a huge push but he ended up being a midcarder for the rest of his career. I've never been reading dirtsheets back then so it would be nice if someone could enlighten me about this.


Pretty much all can be said about that year. Raw in 2004 is the best!

As for Shelton, there's absolutely no answer that makes sense. They were pushing him as the IC Champion all the way into the 2005 summer but all of a sudden, he dropped the title to Carlito, got lost in the shuffle and never recovered from that. The horrible booking completely killed him, the heel turn was unnecessary, introducing "Momma Benjamin" was a dumb idea and the brief "I'm held down because I'm black" shtick didn't help him any. He lost most of his overness as a result of the shit booking and they never bothered pushing him again. He simply became their go to guy for MITB spots.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm kind of an atmosphere junkie. When a match has a great atmosphere and the crowd is into it. It elevates the match significantly for me. 

I overreacted on the MOTY thing. Foley/Edge was better and Foley/Flair might be better when I get to that PPV.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:no:


smitty915 said:


> I'm kind of an atmosphere junkie. When a match has a great atmosphere and the crowd is into it. It elevates the match significantly for me.
> 
> I overreacted on the MOTY thing. Foley/Edge was better and Foley/Flair might be better when I get to that PPV.


Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah > Flair I quit. That ONS match just owns on so many levels.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> What's you're all's thoughts on Los Guerreros vs Edge/Mysterio vs Kurt Benoit at Survivor Series? I watched that on the Eddie Lie Cheat Steal set and thought it was just all sorts of fun. The first finish that results in Benoit/Kurt being eliminated was :mark:
> 
> Plus I just live the Kurt/Benoit dynamic of two juice head jocks that hate each other yet have to try and work. If I had my own patented Fun o Meter I'd say it deserves high marks across the board....


On the normal scale, that 3-way ranks at **** imo. On the *ATF Fun O'Meter* it's ****1/2 - it's incredible fun. The highest rated Kurt/Chris gotta have to be the Rumble, at ****1/2 too (1/2* die on the somewhat boring middle portions).

Btw, just because we're onto SS '02, Brock/Big has gotta be the best 5 minute match in WWE.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

cjack828 said:


> :no:
> 
> Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah > Flair I quit. That ONS match just owns on so many levels.


Haven't seen either of them. Just heard Foley/Flair was good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2 matches left on this WWF 2000 PPV I'm watching and it's only got 5 on the CAL SCALE. Worst PPV of 2000? Could very well be unless the final 2 matches up the rating.

ONS 06 tag is the BOMB. THE ATOMIC BOMB. Probably would be my 06 MOTY if Undertaker/Angle NWO didn't happen. Maybe Benoit/Orton too.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I have the ONS 6 man as my 3rd MOTY behind Rey/Orton SD and Benoit/Finlay JD. I find Kurt/Taker pretty overrated, tbh. It's good, hell it's even great and I wouldn't fault anyone for having it as their MOTY for 2006, but I wouldn't put it anywhere near ***** like many others do.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Taker/Angle is definitely my MOTY for 2006. After that it's Rey/Orton on SD, Benoit/Finlay JD and Benoit/Orton NHB.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont remember this ONS 6 man tag being amazing, need a rewatch. Orton/rey or orton/benoit nhb is comfortably my MOTY for 06


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> :no:
> 
> Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah > Flair I quit. That ONS match just owns on so many levels.


Indeed.

Oh and...










Doesn't get much better than this folks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> 2 matches left on this WWF 2000 PPV I'm watching and it's only got 5 on the CAL SCALE. Worst PPV of 2000? Could very well be unless the final 2 matches up the rating.
> 
> ONS 06 tag is the BOMB. THE ATOMIC BOMB. Probably would be my 06 MOTY if Undertaker/Angle NWO didn't happen. Maybe Benoit/Orton too.


No Mercy '00 I bet


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Once again Netflix is shortchanged 

Just the Mick Foley Doc on Netflix,no matches, still good though


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Well I saw the Great American Bash 08 today and I think it's a decent event actually. Best match for me is definitely JBL v John Cena in the parking lot brawl. I was shocked when JBL won clean. Cena was super over. Just a lot of fun with both of them taking some nasty bumps. Great match **** for me.

The Edge v Triple H was very dull with a lacklustre finish. Didn't enjoy the slow pace at all. Probably should of been a gimmick match. ** for me.

I had high hopes for Batista v CM Punk and it didn't dissapoint. A great underdog performance from CM Punk. However the finish of Kane coming out getting the match called off was terrible. That's what should happen on TV not on PPV. Put a finish on this and it's MOTN. ***3/4 IMO.

Chris Jericho v Shawn Michaels bored me tbh. Some decent action but it felt like they knew there wasn't a proper finish so they didn't go all out. Maybe I just had too high expectations but I didn't enjoy it. **3/4.

Everything else was alright. The fatal four way opener for the tag team championships was especially fun. *** for that one.

A good show to be honest that just lacked a great main event.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Why is HBK/Jericho GAB the new cool thing to hate ? :lol I'm watching this right now, this was the ONLY good one I thought they had from the 08 series


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

It wasn't bad or anything. For the chemistry they both have I was just a bit underwhelmed. It was more of an angle advancement than a match and could of been done in half the time IMO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Taking a break from the Mick Foley doc, halfway through it. Starting Backalash 2006. Heard the triple threat is good.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I thought Jericho/Michaels from Judgement Day was the best in their series of matches in 2008. Great back and fourth match between the two. Loved the finish with Shawn out-smarting Jericho.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2000*

I'M LOOKING AT RIKISHI, AND I'M LOOKING AT A DEAD MAN.


*2 Cool Vs Lo Down Vs Tazz & Raven Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Right to Censor - The Dudley Boys Tag Team Elimination Table Invitational Match*

Is the match name long enough? So apparently this was BYOT: Bring your own table.

Lo Down. What a low point for the tag division in 2000. They get eliminated first. Whatever.

TAZZ AND RAVEN. They were both in ECW so they needed to be teamed together obviously. Though it is better than the alternative; a singles push for Raven. Never understood his hype. Not that good in the ring, overrated like a motherfucker on the mic. Shame Tazz's body was breaking down by this point. Would have liked to have seen more of him in WWF. IC title run with him being more of his ECW "Ultimate Fighter" style worker or whatever could have been cool. 20 minutes on PPV between Tazz and Benoit? YUSH PWESE!

:lmao GMS broke a table with his feet doing a sunset flip, and the ref just ignores it. YOU FUCKED UP chant. Well deserved. Would have been awesome had GMS' pants fallen down and broken the table instead.

WORM UNDER A TABLE. GOAT WORM EVER. Then he gets eliminated. Tazz and Raven continue on!

THOSE DAMN DUDLEYS! So is this WWF or ECW? WWF of course because nobody has bladed like fuck yet for no reason and New Jack hasn't shown up to dive 100ft off a platform onto the concrete because he's a moron.

So Tazz & Raven get eliminated at some point. Bull and Goodfather are out next/last. Ref bump. Bull through a table. Chair shot to Bubba. Falls on top of Bull. Goodfather moves Bull. Ref wakes up. Looks like Bubba went through the table. LOL.

Another ref shows up to tell him what happened. Match restarts. Dudleys win. STOP RANDOMLY DECIDING WHEN YOU WILL RESTART MATCHES AND SHIT. BENOIT USED THE ROPES TO BEAT JERICHO AT SUMMERSLAM, WHY DIDN'T ANYONE RESTART THAT MATCH? HUH? HUH?

This was... eh. A nothing match. Not even that fun either tbh. Literally just nothing.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


TRISH'S TITS. T&A talk about how it wouldn't be a bad thing if they fell out of her top. I am in agree.


*APA & LITA Vs T&A & Trish*

So this all started with a strip poker game where Trish got naked and the APA were so distracted they got beat up. LITA FAP FAP.

:lmao at the sign "Lita can I have your thong?". Then again, not that funny. She never did give it to me. Bitch. HOT BITCH.

LITA FAP FAP FAP comes out first, then the APA music plays but they never show up. Turns out they got attacked. T&A & Trish come out to get LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP and triple team her for a little while before the Hardy Boys make the save.

Match never happens. And that's that. Did one or both of the APA have to have surgery or something at the time? I know they were out for a little while because of this, and it seems weird to book a match like this and not do it on PPV.

*Rating: Never Happened*
*CAL SCALE - *


Edge & Christian couldn't compete in the tables match tonight because of their nuts. Lots of ball jokes. Ha.


*Chris Jericho Vs X-Pac - Cage Match*








these two had a fucking awesome match at Unforgiven. In a cage this time? Could be fun times!!!

HATE~! Yes! These two have been trying to kill each other for like 2 months now, and they ain't slowing down yet! Jericho goes right after X-Pac before he even gets in the cage, so they brawl on the outside before getting in the cage and proceeding to kill each other some more







.

Fuck me, X-Pac takes on hell of a back drop into the cage. Then gets RIGHT BACK UP and attacks Jericho some more. What?

I zoned out for a few moments and somehow Jericho got hit in the face with a chair. When did the chair show up? :lmao

All in all, the do beat the shit out of each other the entire time and it does offer some good shit, but eh, got nothing on their UF match tbh. Some stupid moments here and there bring it down a little, and the overall HATE~! doesn't seem as good as UF. Finish is good though.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


DAMMIT, Steve Blackman is at WWF New York. No awesome Hardcore Title match tonight then .

COMMISH FOLEY!!! 


*Billy Gunn & Chyna Vs Val Venis & Steven Richards*

Was originally supposed to be Eddie Vs Billy for the IC title, but Eddie got injured. Steven Richards says he wouldn't normally hit a women unless it was ABSOLUTELY necessary. S'ok Stevie, Chyna ain't no women. RECTALLY OBSESSED BILLY GUNN.

SO MANY ASSES, SO LITTLE TIME.

Poor Val nearly gets blinded when Chyna rubs his face in her tits. EEEWWWW. I'd sooner have my face in the ass of the women from Rock/Gunn SummerSlam 99 match. YOU KNOW THE ONE I MEAN.

Poor Val. He seems to get owned by Chyna quite a few times in 2000. He don't deserve it either. Val was awesome. FAMEASSER! Wait, isn't that a Ziggler move? I get it! Billy Gunn invented a time machine, came to the future and stole Dolph's move! What a cunt!

Speaking of stolen moves, Chyna goes for a Pedigree. Eddie hits her in the back with a pipe covered in roses. Ref makes the count even though the ring is covered in flowers. WHERE IS THAT OTHER REF TO RESTART THE MATCH NOW? HUH? HUH? BIASED MOTHERFUCKER.

So this wasn't too bad all things considering. Decentish. Funish. Not badish. Thereish.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Steve Austin Vs Rikishi - No Holds Barred*

So Rikishi was the one that ran over Austin. And it didn't work so HHH did it instead. LOL. Rikishi was doing awesome as a babyface. Should have stayed like that. I would have liked say, a Rikishi Vs Angle PPV match for the WWF Title around this time. Could play up on their KOTR finals match.

Man, this was a BLOOD FEUD. Both guys LEGITIMATELY threatened to kill each other. KILL. FOR REAL. Awesome.

Austin hasn't show up yet so Foley comes out to announce Rikishi the winner by forfit. He wastes a bunch of time slowly coming to the ring then standing about without talking to buy Austin time. Then Austin's music hits and his truck arrives. So like, did he ring ahead and say "play my music"? 

Well I like Stone Cold. But I also like Rikishi. Which is better? There's only one way to find out... FIGHT!!! And fuck, they do. MAUL is a better word than fight.

Should have been clear Rikishi did it for HHH btw. Guy was walking about with a SLEDGEHAMMER. Duh.

So this is awesome. Austin just destroys, murders, mauls, beats and other word that means all those things too poor Rikishi. Punches his face in. Beats him with his belt. Smashes his skull in with a chair, then tries to run the fat fuck over. AUSTIN ATTEMPTS TO MURDER RIKISHI FOR REAL ON LIVE PPV. I miss those days.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*William Regal Vs Naked Mideon - WWF European Championship Match*

We go from attempted murder to nudity. Only in WWF!!!

Naked Mideon is clothed. False advertising... but I'll manage.

Regal dominates and Mideon gets angry... so he takes off his top. Eeewww. Regal dominates AGAIN. So Mideon takes off his bottoms. EEEWWWW EEEWWW EEEEWWWW. Why didn't we have a Naked LITA gimmick instead?

Mideon kisses Regal and... oh dear god how many times do we see Mideon's balls and penis? Seriously. BALL AND PENIS FOR REAL. Hilarious watching Regal going for the Regal stretch but being horrified at the nakedness of Mideon, so he hits that cross arm sleeper drop thingymabob and pins him instead .

This was... disturbing. I don't think I can even rate it.

*Rating: N/R*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


:lmao at the Angle/Rock edited interview.


*The Hardy Boys Vs Los Conquistadors - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

Si!

SPOILER! Los Conquistadors win the tag belts. They defend them on Raw the next night and beat Edge & Christian. They reveal themselves to be The Hardy Boys. So if Los Conquistadors are actually The Hardy Boys... then is this a Hardy Boys Vs Hardy Boys match? I AM IMMESNELY CONFULSEZZED!



Watching E&C trying to be "Lucha" wrestlers is hilarious. They just roll about and do dropkicks every now and then and act like they are the most awesome thing ever :lmao. 

The actual match IS kinda dull. Absolutely nothing noteworthy really beyond the stuff with E&C trying desperately to look like Lucha wrestlers. Best part of the match is the commentary. JR just BLISTERS Los Conquistadors every chance he gets because he's 100% certain they are Edge & Christian, while King gives them the benefit of the doubt and defends them at every turn .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Chris Benoit*

BENOIT HEADBUTTED STEPHANIE! JUST WHAT IS THIS GUY CAPABLE OF? Oh yeah...

Only 2 matches left on the card, and this is one of them. WAI NO UNDERRTEKER? Seriously... where was he? I am not recalling him being "taken out" at this point in time. Where is Kane too for that matter? Naked fucking Mideon gets a title match and Undertaker & Kane miss the show? BULLSHIT.

HHH starts the match trying to "out wrestle" Benoit by doing some leg work. Looks good and shit but... doesn't lead to anything... and doesn't help HHH in the slightest. Benoit on the other hand works over the arm and shoulder, which DOES help him. But HHH makes a comeback and ignores it all anyway. Big reverse suplex AND a fucking superplex? With a "bad" arm? Bullshit.

In the end Stephanie (fap fap) is the one that is the difference maker and helps HHH win. TAKE THAT, POINTLESS LEG WORK!

This is eh. HHH stuff at the start is meaningless. Benoit control stuff is great, but HHH's lack of fucking selling makes that meaningless. Stephanie showing up at the end to help HHH win makes, well, everything meaningless. Not a fan.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Rock Vs Kurt Angle - WWF Championship Match*

Man, Rock is a fucking retard. Stephanie tries to jump in the ring at the start of the match, so Rock goes after her and Angle attacks him from behind to gain the early advantage. But WHY did Rock even bother going after Steph? Was he gonna hit a women? Well I wouldn't put it past him because he's a cunt and he's done it before. Great babyface btw. But still... why bother? What was Steph gonna go? Attack him? MAN UP. Plus Stephanie attacking Rock would gain him a DQ win. Title: Retained. Dumb fuck.

Wait... this is No DQ? Well that changes things slightly. Steph could have attacked Rock and it wouldn't have ended the match. But come on... it's fucking Stephanie. What's she gonna do to The Rock? One hard slap and she's fucking out of it on the floor, leaving Rock to face Angle one on one. So Rock is still a dumb fuck. STEPHANIE looks hot as fuck.

NOOOOO!!!! NO ROCKY DAMMIT!!! Earl Hebner really didn't want Rock to drive Angle's balls into the ring post. I can only thing of disturbing reasons as to why that is.

Rock smashes Angle's leg with a chair, locks in the Sharpshooter and Angle taps. But Earl is too busy eyeing up Stephanie. Can't blame him. Look at Rock's Sharpshooter or look at Stephanie?

Best sleeper hold/rest hold spot ever. Angle has the sleeper in, but the camera keeps showing Stephanie who is leaning over the apron in a low cut top. TITTIES~!

So Rock ends up Rock Bottoming Stephanie. Women beating piece of shit. At least the People's Elbow was interrupted TWICE . HHH runs down, beats up Angle for letting it happen, then Pedigree's The Rock for doing it. Stephanie is carried away.

RIKISHI IS BACK!!! Covered in blood and trying to help his friend The Rock retain the belt, but he keeps blasting The Rock instead, and Angle is able to capitalise and win the WWF Title!

Fun match. Not great, but fun. Angle does some good work, Rock... well Rock is Rock. Stephanie was the star of the match, but Angle held his own and Rock was just around to take the bumps and shit lol. Angle's use of the suplexes are great in this match btw. He pretty much uses them as cut off moves any time Rock gets anything going. Why oh why couldn't he have stuck to that formula? 

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Benoit *?

Talk about unpopular.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Another funny PPV review Cal :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I dont remember this ONS 6 man tag being amazing, need a rewatch. Orton/rey or orton/benoit nhb is comfortably my MOTY for 06


Dude. Just dude. Watch. Please


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rUmXzVKhpXA


It's narrowly narrowly edges (pun intended) Edge vs Foley WM22 as my MotY. So effing brilliant. Please enjoy.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Been watching some Harley Race lately. A wrestling god.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Benoit only *? Now I really feel like a blind mark with my rating. Either that or there is some serious Trips hate going on here.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Finished the first 2 matches of BL 06 already, and Flair has already jobbed 

decent besides that though


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember liking Trip/Benoit quite a bit, but more in the ***1/4 area than the ****1/2 place that others do. I remember the leg work by Trip being fun and good but yeah, going absolutely nowhere. I am all for limb work being filler because sometimes a match just needs to be filled (for lack of a better term?), but it just like randomly disappears or something. Don't remember the arm work or Trip's lack of selling....hell the whole second half of he match is a blur. I'm actually surprised Cal seemed to actually dislike it, though.


I thought GAB was easily the best Michaels/Jericho, and I'm honestly surprised at it getting crapped on so badly sometimes. I liked Judgment Day too, but not as much. The rest of their 2008 stuff stinks. Mania 19 is pretty good. IDR their Raw 03 match. Have I even seen it? who knows.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The problem with the GAB 08 match they had IMO is I couldn't get into the story with the eye injury. The blade job didn't sell it for me either. I mean they did there best to get it over but it's much easier to sell a body part than an eye. I mean Michaels just sold it as a blade job and not that he had a problem with his vision.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea GAB holds up, its a nice little match, really dont get the hate for it, Ive never seen JD 08 so I'll give it a watch,

mania 19 is ok to me, but its a little to flashy, and lets try to get the ooo and ahhs from the crowd, Cant stand that july 03 match at all, the epitomy of some 03 hbk stuff I"m not high on


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Triple H (c) vs. Chris Jericho for the WWF Championship - WWF Raw is War 4/17/00: ***1/4*

This match was originally going to be a non-title match but Jericho goated Triple H to put the title on the line after repeatedly insulting his wife, Stephanie McMahon. The match begins with Jericho getting the advantage with quick offense, throwing Triple H off his game showing that his emotions might get the better of him. Hunter changes the momentum after a running knee and puts on a beating to Jericho showing how he felt about his insults from choking to repeatedly punching him on the head. Jericho comes back and bank and forth action ensued. The turning point was when Jericho tried to apply the Walls of Jericho but goes for a slingshot, inadvertently knocking down the ref. Shane McMahon interferes but the APA (who Jericho had in his corner prior to the match) chases him out. While that was happening, Steph gives Triple H the title belt to hit Jericho, but it backfired when Jericho used it on him. Earl Hebner comes out to deliver the count but HHH kicks out. Due to Hunter's problem with Hebner, he gets into an argument with Earl and shoves him down. Jericho catches Triple H by surprise with a spinning heel kick and Lionsault and Earl gives a quick 3 count to give Jericho the win and the title. The crowd pops like mad and it was a feel good moment for Jericho, but it would be temporary as Triple H had Jericho hand the title back to him due to biased officiating. Overall, a fun TV match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

There was absolutely nothing about Michaels/Jericho from 2008 that I hated. JD is such a different story from the rest of the year, and could easily be considered the best of their series. GAB, Unforgiven, and No Mercy are each very good matches, but I can see where Unforgiven gets the most slack. 

Trips/Benoit is **** for me. The Unforgiven match with Angle needs more love though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, the GAB '08 match sucks. So boring until a random blade job happens for the angle and all of a sudden it's "great storytelling". Please.

Angle vs Trips sucks hard too. Didn't like any of their matches. 2000, 2001, & 2002.

Angle vs Undertaker from NWO is overrated, but good. I really do prefer Orton vs Mysterio from the same event. Love Orton's work in the match.

ONS six man is insanity unleashed and bless them all for it. An absolute blast.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think the ladder match is overrated, watched the other day and didn't like it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I loooooved that Jericho/HHH TV match from April 2000. Watching that live I was marking like crazy that HHH (who I hated at the time) just "lost" the title. HHH v Jericho was a very underrated feud. 

Harley Race was fucking wonderful and probably underrated in the grand scheme of things. When he came to WWF he should have feuded with Hogan and his gimmick should not have been so campy. I know they had a match (SNME I believe) but they should have had Hogan drop the title to someone/anyone in 86ish. Maybe Harley or Orndorff. Babyfaces are usually better when they are chasing the title. Just my 2 cents. Hogan never had to chase the title in the 80's. Just really weird looking back. Oh well. Fuc me right? 

Oh and Foley/Edge WM > Foley/Flair Summerslam 06
but both are fantastic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still like it. It's insanely brutal. That's where the quality lies despite some blatantly stupid set up spots. That's hardly the only ladder match to have that and I think the sum manages to outweigh the parts overall. I think it's fun. It's my favorite of their matches until I finally watch Judgment Day and see how good that one is.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont think that unpopular mate (love saying that) foley/edge is superior

I actually have that hhh/y2j match over their FL 00 i think


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Punk/Hardy at Summerslam 09 right now. Talk about great rivalries.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finally got a chance to check out Cesaro/Zayn 2 out of 3 falls. Damn nice match, and proof that Cesaro should be fighting for world titles. He's clearly one of those guys who can go with anybody. 

And Alex Riley on commentary?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I dont think that unpopular mate (love saying that) foley/edge is superior
> 
> I actually have that hhh/y2j match over their FL 00 i think


If they had a little more time on the Raw match I might be tempted to agree with you. Jericho was definitely better in the Raw match, althought Fully Loaded LMS isn't crap or anything I DO think its a but overrated. Still a quality bout. But they had "magic" that night on Raw, everything just went so smoothly I loved it. I think ***1/4 is under rating it by a bit,just my opinion obviously.

I FINALLY say through the entire Austin vs Trips NWO 01 3 Stages of Hell match. I have pretty bad ADD so matches that go over 30-35 minutes can sometimes lose me, unless they kick an insane amount of ass, like this one did. Holy shit did these two just beat the living fuck out of each other or what? This is easily the best match these 2 ever had, the first two falls were some of the hardest hitting battles I've seen from either Preformer. JR and Lawler were just terrific On commentary, as they always are. They put this match over like a million bucks and Lawler accusing JR of hiding weapons for Austin had me :lmao

It needs to be said even though I hate using this term, but the work rate for the first 30 minutes or so was just off the charts. These two didn't take a single breath, they just kept beating the hell out of each other non effing stop. I am actually kinda ticked at myself for waiting this long to watch it, because obviously it's a pretty famous match. Watching Austin repeatedly bump on the steel chair was making me cringe, and Hunter was bumping all over the steel ramp and outside ring area like a freaking champ. I know that back drop onto the table had to have REALLY hurt because he almost missed the damn thing and it gave away so quickly.

I'm not the biggest Haitch fan in the world, although I do enjoy his better matches. This is obviously right near the top of the list for him, behind only his Foley encounters in 00' and maybe 1 or 2 others, tops. What a war. I can't really decide what I'd "rate" this, so ill just say more than ***3/4 and less than ****3/4. Somewhere in there, I'd need to watch it more closely again to be accurate, because there was just so much there to critique.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

This is random but I'm bored atm so thought I'd get your views on the following questions about PPV's from the 21st century (Royal Rumble 00 to Summerslam 13) with my answers next to them.

Best PPV - Money In The Bank 11
Worst PPV - Unforgiven 07
Most fun PPV - Wrestlemania 22
Most underrated PPV - Wrestlemania 16
Most overrated PPV - Backlash 06
Best Raw PPV - Vengeance 05
Beat SmackDown PPV - Vengeance 03
Worst Raw PPV - Unforgiven 03
Worst SmackDown PPV - No Way Out 05
Guilty Pleasure - Backlash 03


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Best PPV- WM X-Seven
Worst PPV- ECW December to Dismember
Most fun PPV- ECW ONS 2005
Most underrated PPV- No way out 2001
Most Overrated PPV-Summerslam 2000
Guilty Pleasure- RR 2011

Cant answer the rest ATM


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best PPV - Money In The Bank 11
Worst PPV - Any of the lower three 06 PPVs (Cyber Sunday, Survivor Series, December to Dismember)
Most fun PPV - Extreme Rules 12
Most underrated PPV - TLC 11
Most overrated PPV - Wrestlemania 26 or Unforgiven 06
Best Raw PPV - Backlash 04
Beat SmackDown PPV - Vengeance 03
Worst Raw PPV - Cyber Sunday 06
Worst SmackDown PPV - Great American Bash 05
Guilty Pleasure - Elimination Chamber 13

Damn, I can't seem to decide what the worst RAW PPV is. Unforgiven 2003 and 2004 were very bad. I'm sure I'm forgetting something worse though.

EDIT: Damn I think I picked a bad choice for worst PPV as well. Completely forgot about so many other PPVs. WM 27, KOTR 02, UF 07, OTL 11, and most of 2010.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

Best PPV - Wrestlemania X-7 or Summerslam 2002
Worst PPV - Capitol Punishment or Unforgiven 2007
Most fun PPV - One Night Stand 2006
Most underrated PPV - New Years Revolution 2006
Most overrated PPV - Based entirely on the last few posts MITB 2011
Best Raw PPV - Taboo Tuesday 2005, New Years Revolution 2006 or Unforgiven 2006
Beat SmackDown PPV - No Way Out 2006
Worst Raw PPV - Bad Blood 2003
Worst Smackdown PPV - Great American Bash 2004
Guilty Pleasure - Great American Bash 2005 (What? It was the event that got me back into wrestling, go screw a flagpole)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not even trying to sound like the dude that always tries to be different, but in hindsight wm 27>>>>>>wm 29

I dont remember ppvs as a whole so I'll pass on this game


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Not even trying to sound like the dude that always tries to be different, but in hindsight wm 27>>>>>>wm 29
> 
> I dont remember ppvs as a whole so I'll pass on this game




I actually agree here just because of HHH/Taker.... They're best match IMO was WM 27. Punk/Orton was awesome too and Del Rio/Edge was a very solid opener.

WM 29 was just.....Ugh. Punk/Taker was good, but the rest fpalm


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I actually agree here just because of HHH/Taker.... They're best match IMO was WM 27. Punk/Orton was awesome too and Del Rio/Edge was a very solid opener.
> 
> WM 29 was just.....Ugh. Punk/Taker was good, but the rest fpalm


you didnt even mention the MOTN


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> you didnt even mention the MOTN




What was?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rhodes/rey


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> you didnt even mention the MOTN


:miz :cena3

But in all seriousness, Rhodes/Mysterio was really good. I'm in the school of thought that believes that Lesnar/HHH at Mania was a good match and HHH/Taker at 27 was not as good as it is often considered (but not dudworthy), which is kind of the reason why I put 29 ahead of 27. I also thought Rock/Cena sucked less than Miz/Cena and Hell No/Ziggler-Langston is a really underrated bout.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah WM29 was awful. Which is weird because there have been so many good matches this year and this year is shaping up as a damn good year. After the Taker/Punk match and the Shield match (though they have had much better) it was not good. Rock/Cena was awful. I actually thought Rock/Cena at WM28 was good. Fuck me right? I thought that was a very fun ppv.

WM27 gets a lot of shit. It wasn't great but agreed Taker/HHH was awesome. My second fave match of the year for 2011 behind Punk/Cena MitB. Also Punk/Orton and Rhodes/Rey were good. Edge and ADR was ok as well. The main event is embarrassing though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1997 and 2000 is kind of an apt comparison. Both years had horrible Manias, but the rest of the year was filled with great match after great match. 2011 as well, but not in the magnitude of 97 or 00.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Best PPV - SummerSlam 2002
Worst PPV - December to Dismember
Most fun PPV - Wrestlemania 21
Most underrated PPV - Extreme Rules 2011
Most overrated PPV - Money in the Bank 2011
Best Raw PPV - Backlash 2004 or Vengeance 2005
Best Smackdown PPV - Vengeance 2003
Worst Raw PPV - Bad Blood 2003
Worst Smackdown PPV - No Mercy 2004
Guilty Please - No idea


Recently, quality of the years and Wrestlemania have been the opposite.

2011: Good year, awful WM
2012: Awful year, good WM
2013: Very good year, awful WM

It also seems to be the case with some other years such as 1997 and 2000.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> rhodes/rey




It was pretty good, wouldn't say MOTN though.... 

HHH/Taker ****3/4
Punk/Orton ***3/4
Edge/Del Rio ***1/2
Rhodes/Mysterio ***1/2

The rest of WM 27 :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shield vs orton/show/sheamus was good


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 1997 and 2000 is kind of an apt comparison. Both years had horrible Manias, but the rest of the year was filled with great match after great match. 2011 as well, but not in the magnitude of 97 or 00.


Totally agree with this. I think 2013 is shaping up to be the best year in wrestling in a long time though. Which is a good sign. They have done a great job with Punk the last two years. He has become a big deal. They are doing a great job with Bryan as well. If/when they put the title on him again it's going to be a ridiculous pop. 

Bryan might be more over right now than Punk was in the Summer of 2011? It's close.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ idk about that tbh, people literally (including myself) went crazy after hearing the first static in cult of personality. You literally ran to the TV to see Punk


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

stars for Summerslam 00? looks decent but I'm not sure


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh totally agree. When CoP hit I marked the hell out. I was not a member of the IWC yet so I had no idea it was coming as I'm sure most smarks did. I loved it. My only problem with it though was they should have saved it for Summerslam. The Cena/Rey match on Raw (which was awesome) should have headlined Summerslam (Rey kinda deserved that too) and Summerslam could have ended with Punk coming out....would been perfect. 

Living Colour is going to be about an hour from me next month....I think I'm gonna go. 

Imagine though if Bryan gets a title shot at Mania and he comes out to Final Countdown? Place would go bonkers.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Someone give me a random year to watch stuff from tonight. Just don't say 2005 or 2010.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My dream Mania 30 scenario is for Punk and Bryan to have a face/face 2/3 Falls WWE Title match as the main event. Have the story be that Bryan finally beats Orton at TLC and successfully defends the title until Mania while Punk wins the Rumble and chooses the WWE title. Then have the Corporation try to corrupt Punk by convincing him that he is not the best in the world and that he needs assistance to win the big one again. Tease a heel turn with Punk on the buildup to Mania.

Once Mania occurs, Punk comes out to Miseria Cantare and Bryan enters with Final Countdown. Let these guys have the wrestling clinic that only they both can have with each of them splitting the first two falls. My preferred finish would be a callback to MITB 2011/WM X7 where Vince and gang come to the ring and hand Punk a chair to use to beat down Bryan. Punk contemplates using it a la Piper/Bret, but ultimately chooses not to. Afterwards, have Bryan catch Punk in the Yes Lock and get the victory via tap out. Post-match celebration should be a handshake between the two competitors which then leads to a standing ovation for both competitors and the entire crowd YES!ing to close out the GOAT main event.

Why did I write all of that?

Jack Evans 187: Watch some 2008 Smackdown/ECW.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2005 or 2010 will do.

Seriously though. 2011 was awesome from July to December. Enjoy.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2004 is always the best go to year. 03 is also fine with a lot of BORK.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd say thats about right, you could argue 2011 hot streak ended when the guy in your sig killed Punk momentum unk2

@ Corey whats wrong with some 2010


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Been watching a lot of RAW 2010 the past few nights and wanna switch it up. Seen all of 2011 so that's out. Hell of a year though. Best of RAW/SD Blu Ray is the tits. 2008 sounds promising, Jeff Hardy's My Life My Rules dvd has never its way out of the box.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Why did I write all of that?


Cuz you are a wrestling nerd like most of us? Haha either way great idea.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWF 1997 isn't that good. Give me WCW over it.

Like everything, it has it's parts I dig, but really, it's not that special. At least the PPVs aren't. Most shows are one-two match shows.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I wrong in thinking that almost all PPVs prior to 2000 were closer to being one-match shows than wholesome events? At least in the WWE, it seemed as if the midcard in the 80s-90s were often inconsistent when it came to high quality matches, and when we did get our Intercontinental classics, we got less than stellar WWE title matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> WWF 1997 isn't that good. Give me WCW over it.


To each their own but...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Most were and then you had your shows that delivered from top to bottom. That's why I don't think '97 is anything special. It's no different than the years before it or after. Wasn't until 2001 where I started to care about WWF PPVs on the whole. b/c some in 2000 just suck the whole way themselves. And then there is Fully Loaded.

-------

Oh yeah b/c nobody can like WCW over WWF. Guys like Meng, Benoit, Eddie as a heel, Mysterio + Cruiserweights. Gosh those guys couldn't possibly have WWF trumped at every turn. Even Kevin Greene was having good matches in '97. There was the shit, but equally (and more often) there was the quality.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Was WCW doing something wrong in 97? I love 97 WWF (well the shit I've seen anyway), and I'm not sure I prefer 97 WCW to 97 WWF (though WCW had la Parka), but 97 WCW doesn;t seem like the kind of WCW to be mad over. I guess you had the shitty stuff like the pay off to the Hogan/Sting and all that, but hell, the build up was mostly gold and sucked up the whole year. Throw in Eddie, Benoit, Rey, Meng/the Faces of Fear, Juvi, Psicosis, Finlay, Regal, Parka, the other cruisers and luchadores (Villanos, Dandy, Calo, Silver King....FUCKKKK), Savage v. DDP, DDP in general, nWo promos, random incredible shit like Mortis/Wrath v. Glacier/Miller, and you have a year that can be at least ARGUABLY at WWF's level, I think.


WHO CARES ANYWAY? 1992 WCW smokes everything. Still my favourite year for any promotion ever since 2010/2011? You know what....yes.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Oh that wasn't a bash WCW comment haha. Cmon now. I watched/loved both in 97. I was in HS and I'd watch one, tape the other (on VHS, kiddos on the board) and watch the other. So I'd be dragging ass Tuesday mornings. 

ps... I loved Mengku as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

WCW 1996-1998 > WWF 1996-1998. I still have WWF 97 over WCW, but both are two of the greatest years ever for a company. The deciding factor I guess is my love for the main event scene in 97 in the WWF (DAT INTERCONNECTION), but WCW in 1997-1998 had the GOAT midcard. The likes of Eddie, Rey, DDP, Raven, Benoit, Booker, Malenko, Jericho, Saturn, Dragon, Guerrera, Kidman, Psychosis, and Goldberg all having career years. I guess we can count Meng too since I recently had a change of heart regarding him and now I'm a fan. Still not convinced of Barbarian though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, there's my answer. Time to go watch some 1997 shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wwf 97 is GOAT, but wcw was excellent as well, I can't add them else, Yeah and funnyfaces voiced my take on it all, happy someone else adores 10/11 like me


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally rewatched Big Show vs Brock Lesnar - stretcher match from Judgment Day 2003. Still amazing with a creative finish and unbelievable strength shown by Lesnar. The way he managed to Suplex Show with such ease was impressive. And the F5 looked more like an FU. ★★★★


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I DARE ANYBODY to question Swagger in the ring after that NXT match. Was a match of the YEAR candidate without question. 

NXT is the place were talents can go all out, and Swagger and Sami fucking snapped and the crowd LOVED it.

:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main events in WWF '97 were good on the majority, but a few did suck. And there are a handful that I actually still need to rewatch tbf in the middle of my recent '97 PPV viewings. Here's what I dug for now:

*Like:*

Michaels vs SID - Rumble

Taker vs Austin vs Vader vs Hart - Final Four

Austin vs Hart - WrestleMania

Undertaker vs Mankind - Revenge of the Taker

Austin vs Hart - Revenge of the Taker _(one where I thought Bret's ground work was a little uninteresting at points, but still a pretty good match at the end of the day.)_

Undertaker vs Faarooq - KOTR

Undertaker vs Vader - Canadian Stampede

Team Austin vs Hart Foundation - Canadian Stampede

Undertaker vs Michaels - Ground Zero

Undertaker vs Michaels - Badd Blood

*Dislike:*

Undertaker vs Austin - A Cold Day In Hell

Undertaker vs Hart - SummerSlam

Undertaker vs Hart - One Night Only

*Rewatch list atm:*

Undertaker vs Sid - WrestleMania

Michaels vs Smith - One Night Only

Hart vs Michaels - Survivor Series

Michaels vs Shamrock - D-Generation X

Might as well get on those last four right now. And I hate having Undertaker in all three matches I don't like, but oof. Are they ever bad. He had more than enough I dug on the year, so no worries. Man might be the best in my eyes, but even he isn't always exempt from having a poor match. The men he was working with too should have been better those nights on their own merit.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I can only imagine what it would have been like to be a wrestling fan in 1997. On one side you had WCW which was the hottest thing since sliced bread with the nWo in full force and the build up for Hogan/Sting. Such a deep roster with plenty of great matches. Then you had the WWF which was in the middle of doing a complete 180 for their product, bringing in more edgy characters, unique storylines, basically the birth of the Attitude Era and not to mention to of the best matches ever in one year. 

Too bad I was only 4 years old and my parents were pretty strict with what I watched and thus we never had cable TV, just basic. Missed out on all the good stuff when it initially happened.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was gooooood times. Going to school talking about it. In the neighborhood with buddies talking about it. Fun stuff. Everyone talked about it. That's where the best quality was. I miss my nWo shirts. I have all the rest in my collection, but not those. wtf.

-------------

Watched Hart vs Michaels from Survivor Series. Yawn. That's in the dislike pile. Oof Bret following WM has done nothing for me. Only liked one or two matches from his WCW career too. He seemed to die for me following the Austin match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You didn't enjoy the Revenge Of The Taker match vs Austin (which was the actual ME over Taker/Mick :lol)?

EDIT: Missed that on the list  What about the Goldberg '99 match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trash match. Hate it.

ok hate may be a stretch, but it's general late WCW main event garbage that's overbooked, poorly wrestled, & had no winners in the end. Especially for Bret. Of all the Goldberg matches I dig, this is one of his bad ones.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw Cody, what did you thought of HHH's brilliant WWE.com interview? :HHH2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't know it existed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It was gooooood times. Going to school talking about it. In the neighborhood with buddies talking about it. Fun stuff. Everyone talked about it. That's where the best quality was. I miss my nWo shirts. I have all the rest in my collection, but not those. wtf.
> 
> -------------
> 
> Watched Hart vs Michaels from Survivor Series. Yawn. That's in the dislike pile. Oof Bret following WM has done nothing for me. Only liked one or two matches from his WCW career too. He seemed to die for me following the Austin match.



I remember going to school in 1997-1998 with the White and Black nWo "Hollywood" shirt on while the nWo "Wolfpac" was really popular. Everyone made fun of me for it, like I had sided with the Crips when the Bloods were what was cool. The truth was it was the same nWo White and Black shirt that I wore in 1996 and seemed cool for, but now I was an idiot for liking it. Ahhh 6th grade was the best. I used to try and draw the Goldberg tribal tattoo on my arm while I was bored in class.

I'd say the overall match quality in WCW was probably better than WWE. WWE had some classic Main Event level matches, like the ones Hayley listed and also some great RAW matches like Owen/Davey vs HBK/Austin and Cactus Jack vs Triple H at MSG. If you told me to put the 10 best matches from the WWE up against the 10 best from WCW I'd probably put the WWE on top. But if you widened it to 100 matches? WCW wins, hands down. The cruiser weight division was just blowing peoples minds back then, I had never seen wrestling like that and it always kept me watching more Nitro than RAW (this was before the days of DVR kids). Plus once Goldberg started picking up steam, you had him, DDP, and Sting on the Main Event level for WCW as guys I actually liked.

So yea Jack Evans, 1997 was a good year for wrestling as a whole. I still remember when Nitro expanded to 3 hours and having to beg my pops to let me stay up til 11pm EST.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sami/Swagger NXT this week isn't amazing like people might have said . Not even CLOSE to the Cesaro 2/3 falls match. Or the match prior to that either. Disappointing . Unless like the 2/3 falls match there is a cut version of it that I saw and I still need to see a full version.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> I remember going to school in 1997-1998 with the White and Black nWo "Hollywood" shirt on while the nWo "Wolfpac" was really popular. Everyone made fun of me for it, like I had sided with the Crips when the Bloods were what was cool. The truth was it was the same nWo White and Black shirt that I wore in 1996 and seemed cool for, but now I was an idiot for liking it. Ahhh 6th grade was the best. I used to try and draw the Goldberg tribal tattoo on my arm while I was bored in class.
> 
> I'd say the overall match quality in WCW was probably better than WWE. WWE had some classic Main Event level matches, like the ones Hayley listed and also some great RAW matches like Owen/Davey vs HBK/Austin and Cactus Jack vs Triple H at MSG. If you told me to put the 10 best matches from the WWE up against the 10 best from WCW I'd probably put the WWE on top. But if you widened it to 100 matches? WCW wins, hands down. The cruiser weight division was just blowing peoples minds back then, I had never seen wrestling like that and it always kept me watching more Nitro than RAW (this was before the days of DVR kids). Plus once Goldberg started picking up steam, you had him, DDP, and Sting on the Main Event level for WCW as guys I actually liked.
> 
> So yea Jack Evans, 1997 was a good year for wrestling as a whole. I still remember when Nitro expanded to 3 hours and having to beg my pops to let me stay up til 11pm EST.


With my buds it was both factions all the way. We were just along for the ride. nWo of any color - 4 life. Gosh, those days were the best.

That's a great way of putting it. I fully agree too. It's the common balance that most seem to know as the case for the latter 90's (aka Monday Night War era) WWF had the main events that usually delivered and WCW was all about the majority of the card minus their main events. However the misconception that all were bad for WCW. Going back that isn't the case and some were actually really good or great. Still, the constant remained. So yeah, I'm not exactly saying I dislike WWF in 1997 - far from it, it's actually a ton of fun - but I'm just not in the group who would claim it to be their best company year. Although I do have some points to 1997 that are higher and more prevalent than others. Undertaker as champion, Mick Foley being pretty much by favorite worker on the whole year _(tied with Taker)_, & Nation of Domination being the best.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> With my buds it was both factions all the way. We were just along for the ride. nWo of any color - 4 life. Gosh, those days were the best.
> 
> That's a great way of putting it. I fully agree too. It's the common balance that most seem to know as the case for the latter 90's (aka Monday Night War era) WWF had the main events that usually delivered and WCW was all about the majority of the card minus their main events. However the misconception that all were bad for WCW. Going back that isn't the case and some were actually really good or great. Still, the constant remained. So yeah, I'm not exactly saying I dislike WWF in 1997 - far from it, it's actually a ton of fun - but I'm just not in the group who would claim it to be their best company year. Although I do have some points to 1997 that are higher and more prevalent than others. Undertaker as champion, Mick Foley being pretty much by favorite worker on the whole year _(tied with Taker)_, & Nation of Domination being the best.



That's something that doesn't really get brought up here, or atleast I haven't seen it. The mother effing Nation of Domination. Man that was some great stuff, and what's even better is I didn't realize when I was a 10-11 year old kid watching it that it made no sense for Owen Hart to be in a "african american pride" group. Foley's 1996-1998 is tied with Eddie's 03-05' as my favorite run for a performer ever. I can't pick a favorite, both guys just delivered on every level imaginable in completely different ways. 

WCW just had this incredible VOLUME of talent that no one could really touch. I'm not sure I appreciated it enough when I was younger, but I surely do now. From guys like Malenko, Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Booker, and Rey to the lesser known guys like La Parka, Juventud Guerrera, Psicosis, Alex Wright, Regal, Finlay etc were all top flight ring workers. WWE had maybe 6-7 guys like could tear the house down on any given night and then just a punch of filler and big bodies.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

cjack828 said:


> That's something that doesn't really get brought up here, or atleast I haven't seen it. The mother effing Nation of Domination. Man that was some great stuff, and what's even better is I didn't realize when I was a 10-11 year old kid watching it that it made no sense for Owen Hart to be in a "african american pride" group. Foley's 1996-1998 is tied with Eddie's 03-05' as my favorite run for a performer ever. I can't pick a favorite, both guys just delivered on every level imaginable in completely different ways.
> 
> WCW just had this incredible VOLUME of talent that no one could really touch. I'm not sure I appreciated it enough when I was younger, but I surely do now. From guys like Malenko, Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Booker, and Rey to the lesser known guys like La Parka, Juventud Guerrera, Psicosis, Alex Wright, Regal, Finlay etc were all top flight ring workers. WWE had maybe 6-7 guys like could tear the house down on any given night and then just a punch of filler and big bodies.


I've gotten around to plugging there here and there in the thread, but it's not a topic that has engaged the masses entirely. Yet. They're brilliant. Have to say my favorite incarnation was actually the original grouping with Faarooq, Crush, & Savio Vega purely from the character standpoint. It wasn't all about the "black pride" yet and more of an actual gang. They had PG-13 being the cronies who rapped to the ring giving the anthem that much more power. The entourage of what felt like thousands at ringside leaving the opponents to always be intimidated. Ah. It was so damn cool. They were one of the first staples of the new Attitude WWF brought in late '96 & early '97.

Definitely. WCW's biggest assets was the wide & deep roster. True, not everyone got booked as well as the should have over time, but it doesn't discount the work put forth on an every show basis. The talent was killing it every night. WWF's roster wasn't ghastly overall, but it did lack in comparison. However, I think they didn't quite tap into the potential of some who were working there. Crush being one who comes to mind. Perhaps minority. Perhaps even this topic brought up elsewhere of digging guys who at the heart of it weren't really THAT good, but I liked Crush/Brian Adams. Felt like he could have been working better matches, but the WWF style almost prevented him from fully breaking out at times. His WCW run was trashy upon memory till Kronik got to have some fun tags, but I stand by my perception. Attitude Era was chalk filled with matches that were hardly matches and WAY more focused on characters & story. Guys who could work never got the chance to.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For me, Savio Vega and Aldo Montoya/Justin Credible are two guys who should have been able to do so much more in the WWE than they were allowed to. Both guys were great workers who blew away a lot of guys they ended up jobbing to. I don't know about Crush, to be perfectly frank I have not seen enough of his work to be able to accurately judge him. Off the top of my head the only match I really can remember was Wrestlemania X with Macho Man in the No DQ/FCA match, which wasn't bad at all if I remember correctly. He also did some tag work with Vega if I remember correctly, I think he was in that Tag Team Street Fight at Mania 13?

Savio in particular had some matches I love against Steve Austin, when Austin still had more of pure wrestling style than being an all out brawler as he was after his injury (both styles had their pluses.) He also had some gems against Maivia on Raw and In Your House.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Faarooq, Crush, & Savio were the Nation team at WM.

For me Savio was actually really bad pardon the strap match vs Austin. Rest of his work he wasn't good at all for my money. There was nothing about him that popped and he was quite boring in the ring. The Maivia match from Revenge of the Taker comes to mind with that gripe. Credible is a good plug. Now he was regulated to jobber quickly and should have been a young prospect for the company. He was doomed with the jock strap on the head gimmick.

WWF also underutilized Al Snow if you ask me. Yeah, he actually DID get used better than some other cats when you think about it, but he was far too underrated & under-appreciated. Glad he got some form of a bigger push in late 1999. Too bad it ultimately went nowhere.


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Reverting to older statements of Taker/Angle from No Way Out being overrated, I agree to a extent of it still being great, but not amazing. The two had another match in 2003, that (I thought) was vastly superior and seemed like a lot more in less time. Less filler/pointless segments and more storytelling goodness in the form of understandable spots.

Just my 2 cents. Awesome thread here btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I agree. The Smackdown match in 2003 blows it away. Although I can understand why people dig the NWO match too. I am a fan after all. Personally don't feel it is AS classic as some happen to believe.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All this talk of 1997. Stop it. Talk about 2000. WWF 2000 > WWF & WCW 1997 combined!!! 

In fact, talk about the PPV's. For instance... KOTR. SummerSlam. Unforgiven. No Mercy. Oh hey those happen to be the ones I have recently talked about. WHAT ARE THE CHANCES OF THAT??!?!? 

But seriously, I love 1997 WWF, if only for the "main event" scene. WCW had the awesome undercard but main event wise was just so fucking SHIT. Hogan? Yawn. Sting? Yawn. Luger? Yawn. Nash? Yawn. Hall? Too drunk. And uhhh... was there anyone else? Flair was getting buried on TV when he wasn't getting fucked backstage. WWF had Shawn, Bret, Undertaker, Austin, then guys who would move about when needed like Owen, Bulldog, Mankind, Vader. HHH, Rock and Shamrock were building up and could do some decent shit here and there (HHH with Foley, Shamrock with VADER, Rock with... not "Rock hating" here I just can't remember anything from him lol). And then there were the storylines. Undertaker/Kane going on at the same time as Undertaker/Bret and HBK/Bret and America Vs Canada which lead to Undertaker/Kane going on at the same time as Undertaker/HBK and Bret/HBK, and it NEVER felt like it was getting confusing or any one feud was overshadowing the other and it was just BRILLIANTLY done. The GOAT match took place in 1997 along with another GOATC. Both from WWF. What did WCW 97 have that even compared to those? In terms of main event matches, all of them combined wouldn't equal the STARS~! from those 2 WWF matches. Just wish WWF did more with their midcard at the time because WCW was blowing them away with Eddie, Mysterio, Benoit, DDP, Malenko, *insert CW guy here* etc.

EDIT: LOVE Angle/Undertaker NWO 06, but the SD 03 match is definitely better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, Faarooq, Crush, & Savio were the Nation team at WM.
> 
> For me Savio was actually really bad pardon the strap match vs Austin. Rest of his work he wasn't good at all for my money. There was nothing about him that popped and he was quite boring in the ring. The Maivia match from Revenge of the Taker comes to mind with that gripe. Credible is a good plug. Now he was regulated to jobber quickly and should have been a young prospect for the company. He was doomed with the jock strap on the head gimmick.
> 
> WWF also underutilized Al Snow if you ask me. Yeah, he actually DID get used better than some other cats when you think about it, but he was far too underrated & under-appreciated. Glad he got some form of a bigger push in late 1999. Too bad it ultimately went nowhere.


If they hadn't stuck Snow with the new Rockers gimmick in 1996 and just let him come in as "Al Snow: The best kept secret in wrestling" and let him work with guys like Hunter, Austin, Montoya, Vega, Farooq, etc in actual WRESTLING matches he probably could have gotten over and had a decent run as an upper mid carder. I feel like when he got his push he was really only a gimmick match wrestler who never got the credit he's due as a great worker. For anyone that doubts that Snow could really go check out his 1994 ECW stuff, the match against Benoit being his best match ever in my humblest of opinions. On Benoits Hard Knocks set there are only really really good matches, and that Snow match STILL sticks out as one of my top 3-4 favorites on it.

Yes, Al Snow is an incredibly good brawler, but the man could really really wrestle too. I am going to do an Al Snow project soon and review 20 of his matches. Anyone that likes Snow and has a few reccomendations to throw my way, especially his Pre-Head days, it would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wwf 97 had to GOATC so I have to take it, the undercard was bit bad on ppv though sometimes

No love for Hbk/hart svs97 ? I love the actual match, it was on its way to being a ****1/2+, it's was being perfectly worked for the type of feud and being a feud ender


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I personally don't think I'd put a HBK/Bret match above ***.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I remember being so jacked up for Hogan/Sting at Starrcade in 1997. Finally Sting and Hogan were going to go at it. And then the match happened. Ugh. I was a huge Sting mark and was happy he won but the match itself was just garbage. 

I love HBK/Bret Survivor Series 97. The brawl before the match even started was fun and that crowd was intense. 

I haaaaaated Crush as a kid. Probably because I was like 12-13 when he turned on Savage and I just hated him. Savage had a good match with Yokozuna right before Mania X (it's on the Savage DVD set) and Crush cost him the title. I was so pissed. Keep in mind I was like 12 but I really wanted to see Savage v Hart for the title in 93-94. Even a triple threat at WM 9 (Hart v Savage v Yoko) would have been cool. Yoko could have won going over on two of the biggest baby faces at the time. Shame it (Savage/Bret Hart) never happened on a big stage. Their match in late 87 on SNME is one of my favorites of all time. One of my earliest wrestling memories.


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

I felt their SVS 97 match dragged, wouldn't a brawl be more fitting to their type of feud than a wrestling match and attempts at one-upping each other? I understand both of them trying out better the other, but wouldn't the heat between the two as per the backstage issues and actual on-screen actions reached a pinnacle and exacted a fully fledged brawl? That seemed more fitting to me personally. 

SVS 1992 = The Best of Bret/Shawn (IMO)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I checked up that 1996 had two PPV's I really loved - Survivor Series and Mind Games. Both are awesome imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The only match I managed to watch last night was Taz vs. Sabu from ECW Barely Legal. Then I passed out.  Still really like the match btw, it just ends too soon and they didn't quite show enough hatred to be billed as the grudge match of the century. Some good psychology and storytelling around Sabu's injured neck.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I don't want to sound like a broken record because I'm pretty sure I've pimped watchwrestling.net at least twice in this thread already, but they just added every RAW, Smackdown and PPV from 1997-2000, and the guy said he's going up to 2002. Legit pumped to go back and watch all of these. The best part is it's all on putlocker so there's no download required.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Watched Michaels/Hart (SS97) recently and thought it was good.
The brawl dragged on and in my head i was thinking "just get in the damn ring".

Last year I watched a series of WWF'98 ppvs and boy were they terrible.

While i think Rock/Austin (WM17) is one of greatest matches of all time, Rock/Austin (WM15) was a chore to sit through.
The WM15 is made even worse considering they had the better match a month later.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wilberforce said:


> I don't want to sound like a broken record because I'm pretty sure I've pimped watchwrestling.net at least twice in this thread already, but they just added every RAW, Smackdown and PPV from 1997-2000, and the guy said he's going up to 2002. Legit pumped to go back and watch all of these. The best part is it's all on putlocker so there's no download required.


Yes, I watch it all the time, some guy in this thread a while back gave me the link, it literally has everything tbh, I probally will NEVER buy a dvd EVER again

I'm watching 97 on there, he said up until 02 ?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I always felt that Taker/Bret had more chemistry in the ring than Bret/HBK


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I genuinely didn't think HBK and Bret had any real chemistry at all in the ring. Even going back to their tag team days. Don't think much to any of the Hart Foundation/Rockers tag matches, and especially don't like anything they did as singles wrestlers together. Urgh.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

An opinion for the Taker/Bret SUmmerslam match, Cal?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret Vs Shawn in any capacity just screams BORING & DULL to me. Legit if you look at any of the matches they have had whether it be big or small, it doesn't matter because it always manages to get me looking away from the screen elsewhere. Literally out of the 10 matches or so that I've seen from them, the only match I enjoyed was the Survivor Series 1997 bout because it was like I could FEEL the hatred between them. Survivor Series 1992 was shit, Ironman was shit, the home video matches were shit.

It's insane to think that those two men are considered the other's "GREATEST RIVAL" when the chemistry is so god awful.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Couldn't sit through their SS92 match or their WM12 match, while I've found every Michaels/Taker match highly entertaining.

I found the HIAC match even better after i watched it again years later, and I thought the match was great initially.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> An opinion for the Taker/Bret SUmmerslam match, Cal?


Very good. Not as good as their ONO match, but yeah, me likey. I'm a fan of all the Bret/Undertaker PPV matches, even the RR 96 that gets shit on at times . **** for that, **** for SS and ****1/2 for ONO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Do y'all prefer Shawn/Bret or Shawn/Hunter?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea their svs 92 isnt that good to me, and their ladder match is blahhh also. I have to check out some of their tags. I really liked svs 97, nice little brawl, but their other matches I think suffered because of Shawn not hitting his singles stride and "dull" bret

Shawn/hunter by far, and not that high on that either


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

How I'd rank the 2000 PPV's on the CAL SCALE so far:

Royal Rumble - 17
Unforgiven - 15
King of the Ring - 14.5
SummerSlam - 13
WrestleMania 16 - 10
No Mercy - 7

RR and WM I posted earlier in the year when I reviewed all of them. Could have sworn I'd written about Backlash 2000 again recently but buggered if I could find anything on it. So fuck it, I'll rewatch it. Nothing bad about rewatching my all time favourite PPV . Though I am pretty fucking HYPED for Fully Loaded atm. Every time I think of the card and the matches and how much I know I liked them, I'm seriously thinking it might end up beating even Backlash for PPV of the year.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I fancy watching some things from a year I've seen very little of: 1995. Any suggestions? WWF or WCW? Hell, even ECW if you wish. I just fancy something different.  I've seen very little from the year, so don't hesitate to give me the obvious answers. T'was the year I was born, so that's another reason why I'm interested. I only just found out Diesel was the WWF Champion the day I took my first breath, lucky me.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Think the Unsanctioned Fight, HIAC and Taboo Tuesday matches were great, can't remember anything from the 3SOH or LMS matches.
Just one of HHH/HBK matches being great puts it above Hart/HBK matches for me.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> Do y'all prefer Shawn/Bret or Shawn/Hunter?


Shawn/Hunter had a ****1/4 street fight in my books at Summerslam 2002 and a ***3/4 HiaC match at Bad Blood, great matches compared to the HBK/Bret matches


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Yes, I watch it all the time, some guy in this thread a while back gave me the link, it literally has everything tbh, I probally will NEVER buy a dvd EVER again
> 
> I'm watching 97 on there, he said up until 02 ?


Yeh that was probably me. Yes the uploader said he was going to do up until 2002. I'm pretty sure he has everything up until present aswell but just doesn't want to put the rest up (obviously it takes a while). Hopefully he changes his mind in the future and puts the rest up though. Would love to watch Smackdown 03 and RAW 04 in full.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I fancy watching some things from a year I've seen very little of: 1995. Any suggestions? WWF or WCW? Hell, even ECW if you wish. I just fancy something different.  I've seen very little from the year, so don't hesitate to give me the obvious answers. T'was the year I was born, so that's another reason why I'm interested. I only just found out Diesel was the WWF Champion the day I took my first breath, lucky me.


To throw out a few:

Bret Hart vs. Hakushi (RAW 7/24/95)
Brian Pillman vs. Alex Wright (WCW GAB '95)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko (ECW 7/21/95)
Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte (IYH 3)
No Holds Barred: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (RAW March '95)
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog (IYH: Season's Beatings)
Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett (IYH 7/23/95)
2 out of 3 Falls: Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (ECW 10/17/95)
Ric Flair vs. Arn Anderson (Fall Brawl '95)
Royal Rumble '95 (Bret/Diesel at least but the majority of the PPV is very good)


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> To throw out a few:
> 
> Bret Hart vs. Hakushi (RAW 7/24/95)
> Brian Pillman vs. Alex Wright (WCW GAB '95)
> ...


To add a few more, Pillman/B Badd Fall Brawl 95 & B Badd/DDP at Havoc & WW3. Sting/Flair at WW3.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Which do you guys think is the better DB match?

V Punk OTL 2012

or 

V Cena SS 2013


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Over the Limit quite easily in my books. The Bryan-Cena bout definitely needs a re-watch from myself once I get the show on DVD, but I don't think it's nearly as good as the 2012 MOTY runner up IMO Bryan-Punk match-up.

I'm assuming that'll be the more popular opinion anyways.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Although I'm in the small ( I think) group that thinks bryan/cena >> punk/lesnar, its otl. If it wasnt for cena/lesnar that'd be my MOTY, held up stupidly well in my rewatch a couple weeks ago, although their mitb is amazing as well


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Cena/Bryan for me

Top 5 Matches of '12
Taker/HHH
Cena/Lesnar
Punk/Bryan (OTL)
TLC 6-man
Punk/Jericho (WM)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched the WWE.COM interview with Triple H & Michael Cole and all I can say is this; while Triple H's in ring prowess can be disputed, I don't understand how anybody could look at Triple H's collective work as a heel throughout his career and say that he isn't one of the greatest of all time at what he does. Even his intangibles speak for themselves; built like a motherfucker, marries into the kingdom of wrestling, and that certainly carries over into his work big time.

This is a scary thing to say, but I feel as if he's the Michael Jordan of heel characters in the WWE landscape, and the second stage of his career is really just getting started now. Honestly, the only active in-ring performer that even has the potential to come close would be CM Punk who is currently a babyface so his heel stock isn't going up anytime soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm starting to think Hunter thinks he's HHHitler :HHH2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The way he carries himself through his actions and all of the little subtleties in his walk and the way he expresses himself is just fucking devious. The character is clearly evolving at a constant rate from the cool and controlled boss who believes he is doing what is right for the company into a deranged madman who is going to step into the ring to dismantle whoever stands in the way of his mission.

He's fucking Magneto; he truly does BELIEVE in what he's trying to accomplish and is truly trying to make the WWE a better place, and that's what makes the character so God Damn complex.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

The smile he cracked when Show knocked out Bryan on Raw was priceless. I believe those are the intangiles to which you are referring. 

On the topic of Bryan/Cena or Bryan/Punk from OTL, I'll side with Bryan/Cena. Had much more importance/drama/storytelling/etc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> The way he carries himself through his actions and all of the little subtleties in his walk and the way he expresses himself is just fucking devious. The character is clearly evolving at a constant rate from the cool and controlled boss who believes he is doing what is right for the company into a deranged madman who is going to step into the ring to dismantle whoever stands in the way of his mission.
> 
> He's fucking Magneto; he truly does BELIEVE in what he's trying to accomplish and is truly trying to make the WWE a better place, and that's what makes the character so God Damn complex.


TRUTH. I was starting to be on the negative side for a while recently but with his heel turn, he's winning me over again, big time. All the hate I felt for his stale face act... all seem gone now.

And Bryan/Cena > Bryan/Punk


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> The way he carries himself through his actions and all of the little subtleties in his walk and the way he expresses himself is just fucking devious. The character is clearly evolving at a constant rate from the cool and controlled boss who believes he is doing what is right for the company into a deranged madman who is going to step into the ring to dismantle whoever stands in the way of his mission.
> 
> He's fucking Magneto; he truly does BELIEVE in what he's trying to accomplish and is truly trying to make the WWE a better place, and that's what makes the character so God Damn complex.


Well, (sorta kayfabe-talking here) there's a truth in that comparision, but I feel that he's more of a Hitler, or better, a Stalin, for being willing to fire all his workers (like Stalin killed the troop generals) if that means bringing a better atmosphere to the WWE and himself. Sure, he's aware and against it, but it's all for the sheer good of "business" - comparable to Stalin killing Soviet citizens for his own good. Magneto did have a good heart and purpose, as in he never truly meant to harm - he proved that by temporarily joining and leading the X-Men, and Triple H on the other hand doesn't really care of who's he going to strike back, regardless of who or what. Like he said in his WM 22 hype promo, "my heart is BLACK!". But yeah, Trips-Magneto is still a fair comparision.

At least that's my pov.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I think Vince McMahon is more comparable to Stalin. See spoiler for an example:



Spoiler: comparison


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Despite the angle which is littered with plot holes. HHH is playing his role to perfection. Those who say that he is acting like he truly believes in what he's saying. There is a chance that he does, Which take with you what you want to


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You really do love HHH dont you ? Bless your kind heart

In all seriousness I'm digging Corp. HHH alot and he's actually the highlight of raw besides the show-stealer for me. I just wish it was anybody besides Orton, I can manage as HHH makes it pretty clear, Orton is just a placeholder and think of him as the WWE champ :lol

Yea I never get on Hunter for him character, he's the leader of my favorite faction of all time (EVOLUTION !) but I get a chucke everytime is see Michael Jordan's name near HHH


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The thing is, Triple H is right about the whole Big Show thing. Big Show makes it seem like only faces can wrestle heels, and vice versa. He just starts crying because he has to wrestle Bryan. I also could have done without the whole "Big Show is broke" angle. 

I am already getting tired of that "best for business", but I get it's purpose.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

To be quite honest with you guys this angle really isn't doing much for me. It seems to be the same thing every week. The Shield lays out Bryan, Orton stands there and poses, Hunter barks out orders. The whole Big Show thing was ridiculous too, cryin like a baby. "Leave me alone please!" What a bitch. 

At least Orton's sort of starting to look like a heel in resorting to eye poking tactics and such but he's not wrestling like one and tons of people are still cheering him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> You really do love HHH dont you ? Bless your kind heart
> 
> In all seriousness I'm digging Corp. HHH alot and he's actually the highlight of raw besides the show-stealer for me. I just wish it was anybody besides Orton, I can manage as HHH makes it pretty clear, Orton is just a placeholder and think of him as the WWE champ :lol
> 
> Yea I never get on Hunter for him character, he's the leader of my favorite faction of all time (EVOLUTION !) but I get a chucke everytime is see Michael Jordan's name near HHH


As you should. There is only one Michael Jordan of wrestling, and you dedicated you're signature and avatar to him. They even both have "Michael" in their name.

I'm cool with this heel trips character that he has been depicting since SummerSlam. My problems with Triple H are with his inability to play a good baby face (which he never should have attempted to be in the first place) and with him having a legion of boring craptastic matches, which no one who considers themselves a "great worker" should have as many bad matches as Triple H has had. That said I don't want to turn this into another Haitch hate/love fest, he's been discussed enough for 3 lifetimes in my book.

Let's talk about why they keep burying the fuck out of poor Ziggler and killing every ounce of baby face momentum he so rightfully earned after Payback. When I saw Ryback come out after Ambrose assaulted him I decided to go have a cigarette because I knew exactly what the Game was cookin', and I didn't like it one bit. If you can give me one good reason he isn't WHC to balance out the titles since Heel Orton looks to be WWE Champ for a while, I'll give you $20. Such a wasted opportunity. I'd love to see a face Dolph vs heel Cesaro feud over the WHC right meow. The WWE is supposed to be filled with smart people, they should be able to push face Bryan and face Ziggler at the same time and not involve both in each others business too terribly much. Plus Cesaro would make a great addition to the Corporation stable and break him away from Swagger for good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Since the go home show for NOC is Monday, I expect Bryan to get the upper hand going into the PPV. Then I'm interested to see in Trips interferes in the title match, or if they let Orton go it alone. I still think they need to do more to get Trips and Orton booed, which they're likely building to. I want evil and diabolical, which they're also probably building to.

And true that about Ziggler. I'd like to see him and Cesaro having World Title matches, honestly.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Bryan/Cena>Bryan/Punk. I have borh of those matches at ****3/4, but Bryan/Cena had more importance and a better crowd


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> As you should. *There is only one Michael Jordan of wrestling, and you dedicated you're signature and avatar to him. They even both have "Michael" in their name.
> *
> I'm cool with this heel trips character that he has been depicting since SummerSlam. My problems with Triple H are with his inability to play a good baby face (which he never should have attempted to be in the first place) and with him having a legion of boring craptastic matches, which no one who considers themselves a "great worker" should have as many bad matches as Triple H has had. That said I don't want to turn this into another Haitch hate/love fest, he's been discussed enough for 3 lifetimes in my book.
> 
> Let's talk about why they keep burying the fuck out of poor Ziggler and killing every ounce of baby face momentum he so rightfully earned after Payback. When I saw Ryback come out after Ambrose assaulted him I decided to go have a cigarette because I knew exactly what the Game was cookin', and I didn't like it one bit. If you can give me one good reason he isn't WHC to balance out the titles since Heel Orton looks to be WWE Champ for a while, I'll give you $20. Such a wasted opportunity. I'd love to see a face Dolph vs heel Cesaro feud over the WHC right meow. The WWE is supposed to be filled with smart people, they should be able to push face Bryan and face Ziggler at the same time and not involve both in each others business too terribly much. Plus Cesaro would make a great addition to the Corporation stable and break him away from Swagger for good.


Amen :clap:clap

Don't get me started with this whole dolph situation, I'm having a good day and your trying to ruin it, there is not reason he doesn't have the whc belt atm, besides wwe hard on for ADR end of story

I'm watching best of sd & raw 12 on netflix, anything good on this set ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So anyone else getting every WWE release this month? Legends of Mid South, Summerslam, and Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come. Definitely grabbin all 3 of those blu rays as soon as they're released, don't think I've ever done that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I'm watching best of sd & raw 12 on netflix, anything good on this set ?


Punk/Henry, Sheamus/Orton, Punk/Bryan, Punk/McMahon. Just from what I've seen. Need to grab that set myself.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Definitely getting the HHH DVD. What's the actual release date for that?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Graves/Victor- ***1/4, good match, but stupid booking

Sami/Swagger- ***1/2 another awesome Sami Zayn match

Both matches are from.this week's NXT


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Definitely getting the HHH DVD. What's the actual release date for that?


September

10th Legends of Mid-South Wrestling (DVD/BR)
17th SummerSlam 2013 (DVD/BR)
24th Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come (DVD/BR)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

September 24 needs to hurry the fuck up. 

On another note, if anyone hasn't seen this symposium for the video game, check this out. I'm early on in it, and they're not talking much about the game, just WM so far. Hearing Heyman talk about how CM Punk will never be satisfied until he main events Mania, makes me want it so bad for him. 
[YOUTUBE]UsZbnHYiXs[/YOUTUBE]


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DO WANT the Mid-South set, but it's a fucking rip off over here in the UK thanks to WWE being complete cunts and leaving SilverVision. I'll just download that and the documentary portion of the HHH set.

Cena/Bryan SS - ***3/4
Punk/Bryan OTL - ****3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ Literally the greatest hour Ive ever spent on wrestling, Naitch is being Naitch that 2k14 panel is ****************


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So anyone else getting every WWE release this month? Legends of Mid South, Summerslam, and Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come. Definitely grabbin all 3 of those blu rays as soon as they're released, don't think I've ever done that.


Ill be grabbing the Mid South Set for sure, I have the live PPV Version w/Pre-Show of Summerslam so that'll do, i'm unsure if/when ill get the Trips one tbh.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Heyman talking about wanting to see Punk/Bryan and/or Austin/Lesnar at a Wrestlemania. :mark:


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

I know that Austin has said before that he feels he has one more match left in him but you've got to wonder if that's still the case. I mean he's knocking 50, has knee issues, and has been away from the ring for a decade. In my opinion his return match should've been against Punk when he was in his straight edge messiah days. The build up alone to that match could've been amazing. I guess the Lesnar match we never got could be good, but really it would be a decade too late.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I fancy watching some things from a year I've seen very little of: 1995. Any suggestions? WWF or WCW? Hell, even ECW if you wish. I just fancy something different.  I've seen very little from the year, so don't hesitate to give me the obvious answers. T'was the year I was born, so that's another reason why I'm interested. I only just found out Diesel was the WWF Champion the day I took my first breath, lucky me.


Both WWF & WCW were fairly identical those years where a lot of bad was shoveled over the bit of good. Watch Bash at the Beach '95 to try and find me in the crowd. Kidding. Especially when that show is really awful for the majority. Do you know about The Renegade? My oh my. Or The King of the Road match at Uncensored. Or the Falls Count Anywhere match from Uncensored. Or the finish to the strap match at Uncensored. Yeah, Uncensored makes your brain numb. It's hilarious. There is a sweet Pillman vs Alex Wright match from GAB you should watch. Also Pillman vs Badd which may be considered the best match on PPV that year for some - from Fall Brawl. Also Flair vs Anderson via the same event. MENG had some clashes with Sting @ GAB & Bash at the Beach. Hogan vs Vader matches from SuperBrawl & Bash at the Beach I liked. SuperBrawl being the superior one. Flair vs Savage from GAB too. World War 3 has Benoit vs Sasaki, a brilliant Joshi tag team match, Sting vs Flair, & the battle royal with a hilarious finish. Oh DDP Vs Badd series was good stuff. Those two worked on Havoc & WW3. Starrcade is worth a watch too with all of the New Japan stars working. Benoit vs Liger & Eddie vs Ohtani. WOAH.

Most IYH PPVs are up on youtube and should be via internationally. I think. Each show generally had a good match or two on the card. The workhorses in '95 were obvious - Razor, Bret, Michaels, Kid, Owen, Yoko, Jarrett, etc. So when it comes to their matches, expect something swell most of the time. EXCEPT for when Razor was put up with Dean Douglas. Yikes yikes yikes. The Undertaker was hardly used on shows and it was bizarre. Kind of tells you how the year really was. Diesel matches that are worth seeing are, well, pretty much only vs Bret at Rumble & Survivor Series. Davey Smith had about nothing worth seeing until the final PPV and had arguably the best match of the year vs Bret. Same show with a Hogpen match starring a Godwinn & Helmsley. Yeah. Smoking Gunns had some good tags when they were on PPV & forgot Smith had a fun tag match with Luger in the middle of the year vs Owen & Yoko. _(guess that falls into the category I already plugged with the hard workers) _ Bam Bam Bigelow's PPV match weren't nearly as good as they should have been except for the amazing tag match from the Rumble. 

There's some bits and pieces to '95. As for ECW, it got better in '95 so I'm certain any selection you make will be fine. Preferably once Raven was on the scene.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> There is a sweet Pillman vs Alex Wright match from GAB you should watch.


:hb _Wrestling's Highest Flyers_, folks. Get it.

------------------------

Are they any standouts of the Best of Nitro Vol. 2? Should I pick it up on Black Friday?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the best set I don't own. The listing is salivating.

I say get it. It's got DDP vs Sting for the World Championship from '98 on it & a good, forgotten Flair vs Hall match too. Plus the rad Arn vs Hogan match. The La Parka moment vs Savage made it + a random lucha six man tag. Not one of the ones with Super Calo like I would have hoped, but one is on there all the same. I actually don't remember the Jarrett matches they put on it, but it's Jarrett in WCW so it should be horrendous. Hate how they put matches like DDP vs Jericho on it b/c of name value when it isn't even much of a match. Goes less than two minutes. It's not bad; yet nothing that should have been put on over a match that actually got time to develop.

I would plug the Goldberg vs Raven match b/c it's the best, however it is going to be on Goldberg's set too. So it isn't exactly exclusive to this.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's a Rey/Eddie bout on there that I remember GUSHING over IIRC.

& what's this nonsense about Shawn Michaels being the "Michael Jordan" of the WWE? I mean, I'm not saying it's asinine or anything..... I'm just wondering the reason one would hold that opinion (I.E... What does Shawn Michaels do better than anybody else to make him the greatest)? I wasn't mentioning HHH being the Michael Jordan of WRESTLING (obviously he isn't, that statement would be fucking ridiculous), merely as a heel character who is head and shoulders above the rest the company has had to offer.

So basically the point of all of this mumbo jumbo is simple; Michaels marks... What does Shawn do that makes him the greatest?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> :hb _Wrestling's Highest Flyers_, folks. Get it.
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Are they any standouts of the Best of Nitro Vol. 2? Should I pick it up on Black Friday?


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/review-wwe-best-of-wcw-nitro-vol2-dvd/35105/

I did enjoy the DVD, but not as much as Vol.1, i preferred the promo's and more of the matches on that set tbh.

The promo that Savage/Hogan cuts afyher the opening (i think) match is hilarious, they are high as fuck it seems


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Michael Jordan of WWF/WWE. That's the most obvious answer I can ever be given.

Thanks for the topic, Batista.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> There's a Rey/Eddie bout on there that I remember GUSHING over IIRC.
> 
> & what's this nonsense about Shawn Michaels being the "Michael Jordan" of the WWE? I mean, I'm not saying it's asinine or anything..... I'm just wondering the reason one would hold that opinion (I.E... *What does Shawn Michaels do better than anybody else to make him the greatest)?* I wasn't mentioning HHH being the Michael Jordan of WRESTLING (obviously he isn't, that statement would be fucking ridiculous), merely as a heel character who is head and shoulders above the rest the company has had to offer.
> 
> So basically the point of all of this mumbo jumbo is simple; Michaels marks... What does Shawn do that makes him the greatest?


Something guys like you and me call WRESTLING



HayleySabin said:


> Michael Jordan of WWF/WWE. That's the most obvious answer I can ever be given.
> 
> Thanks for the topic, Batista.


How much did he pay you to say that Dave ? :lol

I have to see this flair/hall match and arn/flair


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best of Nitro Vol 1 & 2: Where we completely ignore 99% of the ACTUAL best matches that happened on Nitro yey!!!


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

HHH is also a hall of fame human being.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep I love how you keep directing me to these random reviews that weren't written by you.  Appreciated nonetheless. Considering what guys have said + the fact that the blu ray extras have DDP/Savage in a Cage, Goldberg/Sting, & Flair/Pillman, I think I'll add it to the list.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> zep I love how you keep directing me to these random reviews that weren't written by you.  .


Just thought it may help give you some perspective. 

Ill leave now


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> There's a Rey/Eddie bout on there that I remember GUSHING over IIRC.
> 
> & what's this nonsense about Shawn Michaels being the "Michael Jordan" of the WWE? I mean, I'm not saying it's asinine or anything..... I'm just wondering the reason one would hold that opinion (I.E... What does Shawn Michaels do better than anybody else to make him the greatest)? I wasn't mentioning HHH being the Michael Jordan of WRESTLING (obviously he isn't, that statement would be fucking ridiculous), merely as a heel character who is head and shoulders above the rest the company has had to offer.
> 
> So basically the point of all of this mumbo jumbo is simple; Michaels marks... What does Shawn do that makes him the greatest?


You know how Michael Jordan has 6 Rings, won the scoring title 10 times, won the MVP 5 times, and is the consensus best basketball player of all time by anyone that knows the sport? You know how MJ just has those LEGENDARY moments like the flu game, dropping the double nickel on at MSG 3 games back from his baseball sabbatical, completely undressing and emasculating Clyde Drexler in the 1992 Finals, the "shrug" after 6 threes, the "Oh a SPEC-TACULAR MOVE" play against the Lakers (I could go on and on...) you know all that stuff?


That's HBKs WWE career. I'm not saying he's the greatest worker of all time, won the most titles, drew the most money, or anything like that. I'm saying he was consistently the greatest big match PREFORMER in the WWE for almost his entire singles career. Who won PWI MotY more than Michaels? No one. Who does every wrestler in the WWE right now say is the GOAT? Shawn Michaels. Who seemed to ALWAYS deliver the match of the night at the Super Bowl of wrestling? Shawn Michaels. Ric Flair says in his book that Shawn is the only preformer he considers better than himself in his prime. I could go on and on, I'm just saying if any wrestler in the WWE is the "Michael Jordan" of WWE, it has to be Michaels. His matches with Undertaker cemented that status. Just like no one will ever have a better season as a perimeter player than MJ in 88'-89', I seriously doubt anyone will be able to have a better Cell match than Badd Blood 97' or have a better Mania match than WM25 against Taker.

To take this analogy further, Ric Flair is the Bill Russell of wrestling and Undertaker is the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Mick Foley is definitely Larry Bird and Triple H is most definitely Bill Lambeer (guy who won a bunch of titles being the dirtiest player in the game). Boy this is fun. I should really, really, stop though.

I should point out, personal preference wise, I much prefer Undertaker, Mick Foley, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit as performers to HBK. But I put those biases aside when admitting greatness.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm in love with my public safety at my uni, they said they found my wallet, literally the panicking hoping everything still in there, fuck wrestling for a minute

If you want to go that route with the achievements as well hbk=mj is a great analogy


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Despite HBK being one of my all time favourites (former #2), I'd say Flair is WAY ahead of him as a performer and wrestler. Shawn goes down on my top 10 list every time I sit and think about who would make my top 10 of all time list. For the love of god don't everyone start posting top 10 lists. Fuck top 10 lists. Or top 5. Don't get cheeky ya cunts. NO LISTS.

Gonna watch Survivor Series 2000 now for another 2000 PPV Ramble. I remember it sucking outside of 2 matches. Good chance it will end up below No Mercy lol.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

No, I obviously know who Michael Jordan is, my question was why in the hell is Shawn Michaels being compared to him?

I really like Shawn, but I don't understand reasoning behind placing him as the greatest ever. The consensus answer is that he's the greatest "Wrestler" (In-ring prowess) that the company has ever seen, but people fail to elaborate on that statement and that's what I want the answer to. I mean, was he a better seller than the likes of Mysterio, Eddie, Benoit, Taker, Flair, etc? Better heel? Better babyface? Versatility? I don't get it. I can't name a single thing that Shawn Michaels does better than anybody else besides creating a field of melodrama surrounding some of his big time performances & hammy overacting.

& HOMECOMING has been confirmed for the RAW set. YES. Now I don't have to buy that shitty expensive fucking DVD.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> HHH is also a hall of fame human being.


That's good for business :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit, Homecoming on the Raw set? BOOOO. Sick of repeated matches on sets but now a repeated FULL SHOW? Fuck the WWE!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> No, I obviously know who Michael Jordan is, my question was why in the hell is Shawn Michaels being compared to him?
> 
> I really like Shawn, but I don't understand reasoning behind placing him as the greatest ever. The consensus answer is that he's the greatest "Wrestler" (In-ring prowess) that the company has ever seen, but people fail to elaborate on that statement and that's what I want the answer to. I mean, was he a better seller than the likes of Mysterio, Eddie, Benoit, Taker, Flair, etc? Better heel? Better babyface? Versatility? I don't get it. I can't name a single thing that Shawn Michaels does better than anybody else besides creating a field of melodrama surrounding some of his big time performances & hammy overacting.
> 
> & HOMECOMING has been confirmed for the RAW set. YES. Now I don't have to buy that shitty expensive fucking DVD.


The best in-ring, I know that it is general as fuck but I'll try to explain

From a in-ring standpoint, the guy was flawless, entertaining, and just mastered the wwe style, not saying he couldnt adapt to others. He rarely if ever botched. From a ring-standpoint, they was not that captivated the audience more than Shawn. Could do everything in the ring really, and I'd aruge that he was the best seller.

From a character standpoint, it would be hard count on one hand, better heels in company history than DX 97 hbk, Ive never seen a heel, that people just wanted to kill for being a cocky, asshole son of a **.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> & HOMECOMING has been confirmed for the RAW set. YES. Now I don't have to buy that shitty expensive fucking DVD.


Homecoming AND Raw 26/3/2001? Meaning if they don't break their promise of it being uncut - BENOIT is featured! :yes

EDIT. Fuck them for including the first ever Raw, though. We need some 2000-2004 stuff dammit!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow... talk about a no buy for this RAW set. The first ever RAW? Homecoming? Bret's return on 1/4/2010? None of this shit is appealing to me at all.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

This is kind of cool. Punk/Eddie/Unmasked Rey in a little gym in probably the early 2000s. Punk/Eddie would be a fun dream match. Think I'll check out Punk/Rey from 2010.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Best of Nitro Vol 1 & 2: Where we completely ignore 99% of the ACTUAL best matches that happened on Nitro yey!!!


:lmao

LETS NOT BE SURPRISED NOW. GOT TO HAVE THOSE POPULAR NAMES HAVE THEIR MATCHES ADDED.

-----------

Finished the 12 man tag from RAW in 2011. Goodness its still one of the most enjoyable matches ever of the last few years. Southern style formula worked really well with all of the characters popping and a crowd that was digging everything. FUNFUNFUN. All the champions were in the match too and felt like they and their reigns mattered. Except for Del Rio. There was no cushion for that. Still, I miss that. Whole match felt like a throwback to the territory days at when a match with that many stars are piled up together to sell out a tour. Great stuff. Has to be a top five TV match from 2011 off the top of my head. It stuck around so much that it has to be. Only a few more linger about: Cena vs Mysterio, Mizanin vs Morrison FCA, Mysterio & Riley vs Swagger & Mizanin Tornado, & Henry vs Danielson steel cage. Suppose I should think about Superstars and a slew of random Henry matches too. Dang. I liked a lot from TV in 2011 now that I ponder about it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

iwatchwrestling said:


> Punk/Eddie would be a fun dream match.


There is a singles IWA match between them at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think I ever watched the Punk/Eddie match, nor the triple threat. Got them both on disc. One day. One day.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd probably say 2011's TV matches were even better than what we've gotten this year, mainly due to so much variety. Cage matches, LMS matches, 12 man tags, FCA matches, etc. Fucking love that RAW/SD 2011 blu ray. LOVE IT.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

More varied, but not _better_ imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I wouldn't say better, but the melting pot given was a great quality 2011 provided. Both 2011 & 2013 were chalk filled with great TV matches - that's all that matters.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Flair/Hall match Cody mentioned has piqued my interest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was on youtube until that set came out and WWE had it removed. Caught it just in time some months ago. Good stuff. Hall in mid '97 was actually pretty good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I used to use that watchwrestling site all the time. But now the videos buffer all the time


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It was on youtube until that set came out and WWE had it removed.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't say better, but the melting pot given was a great quality 2011 provided. Both 2011 & 2013 were chalk filled with great TV matches - that's all that matters.


Indeed. 2011 + 2013 for TV in-ring stuff might just the WWE's two best ever years (00 and 01 are competition but far less consistent, 02 was bit overrated, 03 and 04 were one-brand years).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Buy the Nitro set, bud. 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


>


Think this may be it - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8lhl8_scott-hall-vs-ric-flair_sport


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

06 SD might beat out '11 and '13 Raw & SD combined . ECW 09 and SD 09 are a hell of a team too + Superstars 09 as well? FUCK ME.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> LETS NOT BE SURPRISED NOW. GOT TO HAVE THOSE POPULAR NAMES HAVE THEIR MATCHES ADDED.
> 
> ...


Even WWE rated that match pretty high. :hmm: don't think I rated the match all that high imo, the overall feud was great thou.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This watchwrestling site is fucking awesome! It got so much in there.



Callamus said:


> 06 SD might beat out '11 and '13 Raw & SD combined . ECW 09 and SD 09 are a hell of a team too + Superstars 09 as well? FUCK ME.


The summer of 06 was pretty poor for SD, though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ziggler/Cesaro from Superstars- ***1/2, once again I have to ask, why isn't Cesaro one of WWE's top heels? I can only imagine a Bryan/Cesaro, or a Punk/Cesaro match or even a Cena/Cesaro match for the WWE title


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Think this may be it - http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8lhl8_scott-hall-vs-ric-flair_sport


omg :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> LETS NOT BE SURPRISED NOW. GOT TO HAVE THOSE POPULAR NAMES HAVE THEIR MATCHES ADDED.
> 
> ...



Big fan of the Miz vs Morrison FCA match, that was early January right? It's the first match on the Best of 2011 set and I've probably watched it 4-5 times, love it love it love it. Never saw the tornado match though....hmmm. I always though that FCA match and his US title match with Bryan were the only matches I could ever conceivably care about involving Miz. I don't know if I wanna let that get to 3 matches because then I might be forced to admit that the Miz isn't a completely reprehensible waste of space. Ugh.

Gonna watch Eddie vs Rey Judgement Day 2005 just cause. Just cause what? Just cause there have never been 2 wrestlers with better chemistry than those two and ill never get sick of their matches. Evar.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*RAW - August 12, 2012
*CM Punk vs. Big Show - ** 1/2
The Miz vs. Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 1/4
John Cena & CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan & Big Show - ** 1/2

Punk/Show could've really been something great and it was on its way to that until the Bryan interference. Still good for what we got. 3 way was pretty fun and could've been even better if some of the sequences were pulled off a little better. Good showing from all 3 guys. Tag match was more about building towards the WWE Title match at Summerslam. Bryan was thrown in to act like a gnat that wouldn't leave Big Show alone and to eat the pinfall. Entertaining enough.

*Smackdown - August 17, 2012*
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - *** 1/4

Didn't hear much talk of this at all but I was pretty impressed. Really good match where you could tell both guys were basically sleepwalking through it (a la Punk/Jericho from earlier this year). Bryan worked Orton's left leg relentlessly and Orton sold it very well. Finish was predictable thanks to Kane's "interference" but this was quite enjoyable. 

Watched these from the Summerslam '12 blu ray extras btw. Would've liked to seen Jericho/Del Rio from Smackdown too, but oh well.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

CM Punk/Rey Mysterio

Armageddon 2008 ***3/4
WM 26 ***1/2
Extreme Rules 2010 ***1/2
Over the Limit 2010 ***3/4
Capitol Punishment 2011 ****


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I feel like people who are 30 or over think guys like Flair, Rude, DiBiase are the best heels ever....where as people like 29 and younger think guys like HHH and Jericho are the best heels ever. A lot of it depends on how old you are I guess. I think I just named the 5 best heels I have seen. I will admit Punk's heel run from 2012-wrestlemania 29 was great. I'm too young to remember Piper as a heel. I mean I have seen clips obviously but he was a huge face in 87-88 when I started watching all the time. 

As good of a heel as HHH is (he is damn good actually) he isn't close to DiBiase or Flair or even Rude. I might even put Jericho ahead of HHH as a heel.

One of the best heel promos of all time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwoQ2b3k8Uo


----------



## BEE (Dec 6, 2007)

I skipped the entire year of 2012 except for WM. That being said, anyone have recommendations for MOTYCs?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I feel like people who are 30 or over think guys like Flair, Rude, DiBiase are the best heels ever....where as people like 29 and younger think guys like HHH and Jericho are the best heels ever. A lot of it depends on how old you are I guess. I think I just named the 5 best heels I have seen. I will admit Punk's heel run from 2012-wrestlemania 29 was great. I'm too young to remember Piper as a heel. I mean I have seen clips obviously but he was a huge face in 87-88 when I was watching all the time.
> 
> As good of a heel as HHH is (he is damn good actually) he isn't close to DiBiase or Flair or even Rude. I might even put Jericho ahead of HHH as a heel.


Don't think age has THAT much to do with it. I'm 25 and I'd go with guys like Flair and Piper and whatnot over HHH. Just depends on how much footage you have seen of other guys + personal preference.


----------



## Bryan D. (Oct 20, 2012)

Fable said:


> I skipped the entire year of 2012 except for WM. That being said, anyone have recommendations for MOTYCs?


Punk/Bryan - Over the Limit
Punk/Bryan - Money in the Bank
The Shield/Hell No & Ryback - TLC
Cena/Lesnar - ER 
Punk/Cena - NoC 
Ziggler/Cena - TLC 
Sheamus/Bryan - ER 
Ziggler/Orton - NoC 
Sheamus/Orton/Jericho/AdR - Over the Limit

Some matches for you..


----------



## BEE (Dec 6, 2007)

Bryan D. said:


> Punk/Bryan - Over the Limit
> Punk/Bryan - Money in the Bank
> The Shield/Hell No & Ryback - TLC
> Cena/Lesnar - ER
> ...


Punk vs Bryan :mark: :mark:

Thanks!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes go watch Punk/Bryan OTL now. Amazing match and MitB is great too. 



Callamus said:


> Don't think age has THAT much to do with it. I'm 25 and I'd go with guys like Flair and Piper and whatnot over HHH. Just depends on how much footage you have seen of other guys + personal preference.


True I see that. There is something to be said though when you see heels when you first start watching as a kid and kayfabe is still there. I'm 32 so watching Andre & DiBiase screw Hogan out of the title live and being like what is going on and thinking DiBiase REALLY bought the title was something else. Watching Savage turn on Hogan and drill him with the belt was epic. Watching Flair kick Sting out of the Horsemen live was crazy. Even watching Shawn superkick Marty and put him through the window live a few years later while I was still like 11ish really shaped my opinions. IDK.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH wouldn't rank near my top heels list at all and I just turned 20. I could probably name 50 guys off the top of my head I'd easily take over him. Why's he a better heel than, say, Adrian Adonis?


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

Fable said:


> I skipped the entire year of 2012 except for WM. That being said, anyone have recommendations for MOTYCs?


Two come to mind.

Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit. Quite possibly my favorite match that year. Couldn't understand why it wasn't nominated for an award but the match speaks for itself. Both worked a very amazing, near perfect wrestling bout. Strong performance and effort from two guys who had zero content to work with in terms of storyline. I'm the type of mark who would definitely support these two headlining a WrestleMania together. Chemistry between them is just flawless.

Team Hell No & Ryback vs. Shield at TLC. Such a beast match that I attended in the Barclays Center. Had everything I would've wanted out of it. Electric crowd with the crowd naturally behind a stellar underdog babyface in Bryan, as well as being really into the actual match. Tremendous brawl with both teams wanting to beat the hell out of each other. Awesome spots including Reigns hitting the WWE '13 spear through the barricade, Ambrose getting a suplex on the ladder, Rollins being out of this world, etc. Wonderful performances from pretty much everyone in this match. Makes up for the fact that Punk couldn't compete that night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH wouldn't rank near my top heels list at all and I just turned 20. I could probably name 50 guys off the top of my head I'd easily take over him. Why's he a better heel than, say, Adrian Adonis?


Ditto. And I'm 26. Trips was a good heel but nowhere near the top of my list. I put guys like Bockwinkle, Hennig, Lawler, Goldust, Rude, Vader, 97' HBK, Flair, DiBiase, 97' & 05' Eddie, and Jericho (98' Jericho especially) ahead of Trips. There are more of course but I don't want to turn this into a Haitch hate fest. Hunter was a very good heel; at a time where most heels were actually liked he was one of the only ones who got actual heat. Doesn't make him a GOAT heel or anything, although everyone is obviously entitled to their opinion. I think Orton in 09' and Punk SES were better heels as well. Triple H just has longevity which some people unfortunately translate to as greatness. Ill take a 1 year run of nuclear heat with great in ring heel work over 5 years of ok heat with hit or miss ring work, as just a personal preference when I'm comparing 1 heel to another.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Watching Rey Mysterio WCW matches. SO GOOD.

vs. Dean Malenko - WCW Great American Bash 1996: ****1/4
vs. Psicosis - WCW Bash at the Beach 1996: ****
vs. Dean Malenko - WCW Monday Nitro 7/8/96: ***3/4
vs. Ultimo Dragon - WCW Hog Wild 1996: ***3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

VladMan2012 said:


> Two come to mind.
> 
> Punk vs. Bryan at Over the Limit. Quite possibly my favorite match that year. Couldn't understand why it wasn't nominated for an award but the match speaks for itself. Both worked a very amazing, near perfect wrestling bout. Strong performance and effort from two guys who had zero content to work with in terms of storyline. I'm the type of mark who would definitely support these two headlining a WrestleMania together. Chemistry between them is just flawless.
> 
> Team Hell No & Ryback vs. Shield at TLC. Such a beast match that I attended in the Barclays Center. Had everything I would've wanted out of it. Electric crowd with the crowd naturally behind a stellar underdog babyface in Bryan, as well as being really into the actual match. Tremendous brawl with both teams wanting to beat the hell out of each other. Awesome spots including Reigns hitting the WWE '13 spear through the barricade, Ambrose getting a suplex on the ladder, Rollins being out of this world, etc. Wonderful performances from pretty much everyone in this match. Makes up for the fact that Punk couldn't compete that night.



Sorry to double post, but it's necessary. Those are my ties for MotY 2012. The face Ambrose makes me when he gets suplexed onto the ladder needs to be turned into a gif ASAP, that shit was priceless :mark:


----------



## TheVladMan (Dec 25, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Sorry to double post, but it's necessary. Those are my ties for MotY 2012. The face Ambrose makes me when he gets suplexed onto the ladder needs to be turned into a gif ASAP, that shit was priceless :mark:


My two ties that year too. Couldn't possibly pick between the these two stellar matches. Don't think there was anything that year came close to them.

And yeah, Ambrose's face was GOAT worthy. One of the many highlights of that match. This is the face people are gonna want to tell their grandkids about.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

VladMan2012 said:


> Those are my two ties too. Can't possibly pick between the two, both matches were just out of this world. Don't think there was anything that year came close to them.
> 
> And yeah, Ambrose's face was GOAT worthy. One of the many highlights of that match. This is the face people are gonna want to tell their grandkids about.
> 
> http://whatistheexcel.com/wooobooru/_images/48b75c742514b8cb7e744248c53cdcbf/7898%20-%20Dean_Ambrose%20autoplay_gif%20crying%20gif%20tlc%20wwe.gif



Oh man that gif is great. I wish they started it from he moment he sits up after being suplexed though. The initial shock is quality too. I can't choose between those two matches for the simple reason that they are so different, yet they are both 5 star quality if not really really close for what they are. You will not see a better TLC match in this day in age and Bryan vs Punk was about as good a pure wrestling match as we are likely to see. Really reminded me of the battles Hennig had with Hart back in the late 80s early 90s.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Triple H does a great job of making me support a babyface when he faces them as a heel, which is the essence of a great heel. Do you guys honestly think people would care about Shelton Benjamin as much as they did when he faced HHH if the heel he faced was Adrian Adonis (all due respect to him)? There is just something so unlikable about Triple H that people want to see someone crush him, which is why he really wasn't as good as a face. It's not entirely what he does in the ring that makes him a GOATworthy heel (although his knee to the face is among the best momentum-stopping maneuvers ever), but he has that "it" factor for heels that very few did of his magnitude. :HHH2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Age has nothing to do with it. I'm only 23 and yet I'm one who prefers wrestling from the 80's & WCW early '90's _(mostly '92)_ over most of every other aspect in wrestling. _(Puro seems to range up and down the decades, tbf)_ I wasn't even alive in the 80's and WAY too young to even be able to properly comprehend the work seen in '92, yet I love it. I don't need to be in my 30's to know someone like Rick Rude > some WWF fabricated big name like a Triple H or The Rock.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

So who are the best heels since 1997? Here are some that I liked (in no particular order)

HHH
HBK 97
All Rock heel characters (except for N.O.D Rock)
Legend killer/2009 Orton
Eddie Guerrero in 2005
Chris Jericho from 2008 to 2010
Edge
Muhammad Hassan
JBL
CM Punk SES (not a big fan of his latest heel run but it was still good)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Muhammad Hassan is the GOAT face. What's there not to like about him?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Muhammad Hassan is the GOAT face. What's there not to like about him?


 Daivari :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Do you guys honestly think people would care about Shelton Benjamin as much as they did when he faced HHH if the heel he faced was Adrian Adonis (all due respect to him)?


If Adonis was the 'I win everything and dominate everyone only to be upset by the youngster' heel, then yes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

William Regal is a far > heel that one trick pony Hassan.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm pretty sure any above average wrestler with decent mic skills and a great look that was booked like Trips was would have been able to reasonably duplicate Trips "Reign of Terror" in an acceptable way. Bracing myself for the nuclear holocaust that's gonna occur when Beast Incarnate and C2D discover all the Haitch hate going on :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> William Regal is a far > heel that one trick pony Hassan.


I don't get the praise surrounding Hassan. Well OK, I get why he's praised, but not why he's SOOOOOO praised. Like at one point I think I've seen him win a 'should have been World Champion' poll or some shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't get the praise surrounding Hassan. Well OK, I get why he's praised, but not why he's SOOOOOO praised. Like at one point I think I've seen him win a 'should have been World Champion' poll or some shit.



Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but man some people have some effing retarded opinions.

Speaking of effing retards, I will give Trips credit for getting a damn entertaining match out of Eugene at SummerSlam. It wasn't a technical masterpiece or anything but it was FUN.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, a world title win would have been a little too much. Maybe a feud for the world title with Batista in 2005 (instead of JBL).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If HHH was that kind of heel all the time I'd maybe rate him as one of my favourite heels. He even pushed Lilian to the floor, for fook sake.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> I don't get the praise surrounding Hassan. Well OK, I get why he's praised, but not why he's SOOOOOO praised. Like at one point I think I've seen him win a 'should have been World Champion' poll or some shit.


Well he should of been. People can say he was a one trick pony and it was ''all the gimmick'' - all they like but the fact is he was getting the most heat in the company at the time easily, he had great mic skills, and had a hot character that was generating a lot of interest both in wrestling and the mainstream. He probably would of been a World Champion if they didn't royally screw him up, they were pushing him quite hard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Summerslam 2012*

Chris Jericho vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 3/4

Daniel Bryan vs. Kane - ** 3/4

*Intercontinental Championship
*The Miz (c) vs. Rey Mysterio - ***

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Sheamus (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio - ** 3/4

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*Kofi Kingston & R-Truth vs. The Prime Time Players - ** 1/2

*WWE Championship
*CM Punk (c) vs. John Cena vs. Big Show - *** 1/4

Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H - ** 1/2


- I held Jericho/Ziggler in fairly high regards but I actually think it was even better this time around. Jericho coming out for revenge right outta the gate was great and Ziggler's attack on the ribs he injured on the previous SD was a nice touch. Add in some excellent back and forth sequences down the stretch and we've got ourselves one hell of a hot opener. The Jericho 'winning the big one' thing was pretty dumb and made out to be much bigger than it actually was, but the match delivered.

- Bryan/Kane is still pretty solid. Kane does his best Undertaker impression when the bell rings (if you watch it you'll know what I'm referring to). About as good of a match that you'll get with the face/heel dynamic they were using and the crowd was mega into it because of the yes/no chants. Flying headbutt right into the chokeslam was quite neat.

- Miz/Mysterio started out real shaky as Miz decided to use rest holds like 3 minutes into the match but it really developed into something fun. I actually enjoyed the amount of offense Miz got in and all the playing to the crowd he would do inbetween. Hurricanrana counter into the rebound powerbomb was sweet. Some nifty nearfalls towards the end until Miz looks strong in victory. If this was Mysterio of 2010-11 with a few more minutes this could've been damn good. Seemed like they were holding Mysterio's offense back a bit or just booking it for Miz to look strong. 

- Sheamus/Del Rio is so frustrating. The match itself is actually pretty good. Very physical with a few moments of greatness but that finish still makes no sense. If you just have Ricardo toss the shoe in, Sheamus grabs it on accident, hits Berto with it and wins with the Brogue Kick, then that's fine. But move the foot off the rope? Now you're screwin with the dynamic here. Silly. Good match until that.

- Match quality doesn't take a dip at all with the Tag Title match. Completely acceptable time filler with a tag formula that will always work. Fun match & good showing from PTP, especially Titus. Ripcord! :mark:

- My feelings have remained exactly the same about the WWE Title match. Never have I seen one man be booked so well and dominate the entire match... then lose twice.  I loved Big Show's total domination and enjoyed watching both guys try to slay the giant, especially when he's fending them off left and right with spears and chokeslams. The initial ending of the match I thought felt rushed but Punk's eventual chickenshit victory is brilliant. Love it. Fun match.

- Lesnar/Trips gets worse on each viewing, honestly. This is the 3rd time I've seen it and my feelings haven't changed. Boring, tedious, repetitive, no sell a pedigree. Sucks that the main event gave us the worst match on the show (yes the Tag Title match is better)​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hassan should have been a world champ? Good mic skills? Hilarious.

--------

Corey we differ greatly on SummerSlam opinions until the last two matches. I think the Triple Threat is around the "really good and smartly worked" level & Brock vs Trips is ok at best & not worth seeing. But GOD NO at that DUD of a tag team championship bullspit being better. Match was shit. Miz vs Mysterio was bad too. Jericho vs Dolph sucked until the last five minutes. Sheamus vs Del Rio is good with a bad finish. Danielson vs Kane was the MOTN. Only the triple threat came close to giving it a run. I didn't like that show. First fairly flat SummerSlam to happen since 2007.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I thought Hissan was just okay on the mic. I liked his character, though, and he seemed to be generating enough heat to at least be WHC at least once.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Corey we differ greatly on SummerSlam opinions until the last two matches. I think the Triple Threat is around the "really good and smartly worked" level & Brock vs Trips is ok at best & not worth seeing. But GOD NO at that DUD of a tag team championship bullspit being better. Match was shit. Miz vs Mysterio was bad too. Jericho vs Dolph sucked until the last five minutes. Sheamus vs Del Rio is good with a bad finish. Danielson vs Kane was the MOTN. Only the triple threat came close to giving it a run. I didn't like that show. First fairly flat SummerSlam to happen since 2007.


Damn it Cody, why do you have to be so difficult. Are just hating on the Tag Title match because Kofi & Truth are in it?  I haven't the slightest idea as to why you thought Ziggler/Jericho sucked either. Ziggler attacked the ribs, smart psychology.

Danielson/Kane Match of the Night!? I know it's your birthday and everything but shit man, slow down with the weed. Really though, opinions are all different but a few of those shock me. What's so special about Bryan/Kane?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Kane was loads of fun. Still have the opener as the match of the night, but Bryan and Kane put on a match with few flaws.

Muhammad Hassan is the greatest face of all-time. Man makes Rey Mysterio look like Randy Orton in comparison. A shame that bigots doubt this man's greatness.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Muhammad Hassan was amazing on the mic. Every time he spoke, I listened to every word and also agree with most of it. Should have been much more than what we got.


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

I think Hassan may be the most universally loved wrestler on this entire site :hmm:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All of this "Hassan's heat" talk makes me think of how worse they fucked Matt Hardy over. The guy was getting atomic pops during the Edge feud, and he was still getting big ones a year later. But oh well, we still got Edge's 06 run out of that though.

EDIT: I just read that Mark Henry has been cleared to compete.

#Shield/BlackShowAtNOCStillMayHappen :mark:


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Is it irregular that I think Cena is a good in ring performer? After lurking around the prior sections of this forum, labeling him as a no selling, unconvincing POS in the ring seems to be the general consensus. On the latter side, I feel as though Cena's babyface upbringings against monsters are great and is the best attribute of his in ring resume as they really heighten investment from the audience and transform a typical wrestling match into a riveting portrayal of an effective story. Brock/Cena Extreme Rules and Cena/Umaga Royal Rumble are the finest examples of my written statements.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hassan was awesome... that one time when Undertaker killed him 8*D.

Aside from getting heat by insulting America... I don't see what Hassan did that was any good at any point. And let's face it, anyone insulting America is gonna get booed anyway. His heat was just bumped up because he was doing the Arab gimmick.

SS '12 is only worth seeing for Bryan/Kane and the AWESOME Lesnar/HHH match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Pre ordered the Mid South set. Can't wait. Quite the lineup. Excited to see a bunch of old school DiBiase.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hassan's character may have been easy to get heat but then again, Bret Hart's great anti-America promos or CM Punk's SES promos (where he was saying how he was better than everyone else and name calling) were easy as well. It's all about execution and delivery which is what makes Hassan stand out from the rest. You give Jinder Mahal a similar role today and see what he can do with it.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> I thought Hissan was just okay on the mic. I liked his character, though, and he seemed to be generating enough heat to at least be WHC at least once.


^
I know this is the thread to praise work rate and matches, but having great in-ring skills has never been a big factor on whether you become a World Champion or not. Hassan had the mic skills, was generating the heat, and had the hot character that could been a World Champion. I don't give a shit if his in-ring skills were average, I loved his character and characters are what I love the most about wrestling. Some people are in-ring guys, others are mic skills guys, I've always been a character guy.


ATF said:


> All of this "Hassan's heat" talk makes me think of how worse they fucked Matt Hardy over. The guy was getting atomic pops during the Edge feud, and he was still getting big ones a year later. But oh well, we still got Edge's 06 run out of that though.


Matt Hardy in 2005 was awesome. His feud with Edge is probably my most favorite Edge feud.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Hassan had the perfect gimmick for the time and for his capabilities. An Arab who insults Americans, 3 years after 9/11. That was always destined to piss people off. I doubt anyone would even care in 2013 though. He was a good mic worker, but nothing exceptional or legendary.

If Hassan had stuck around he would've ended up just like Kennedy. His heat would've died off, people would've gotten sick of his one-dimensional promos, and many more would have realized that he couldn't work at a main-event level.

I enjoyed what he did quite a lot, but I really don't miss him at all. His run was long enough.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Damn it Cody, why do you have to be so difficult. Are just hating on the Tag Title match because Kofi & Truth are in it?  I haven't the slightest idea as to why you thought Ziggler/Jericho sucked either. Ziggler attacked the ribs, smart psychology.
> 
> Danielson/Kane Match of the Night!? I know it's your birthday and everything but shit man, slow down with the weed. Really though, opinions are all different but a few of those shock me. What's so special about Bryan/Kane?


It wasn't a shocker, however PTP's didn't do anything to light me up either. I actually dug about two-three matches with Kofi & Truth as a tag team so it wasn't the universal dislike that played a part. It was just a crap match for the over-under. _(OTL '12 - now THAT'S a fun tag team championship match.)_

Jericho vs Dolph felt off and lifeless for more than half the match. I couldn't buy into anything they were doing. Walking in expecting some smooth action and seeing something that turned me off was a disappointment. It got better at the end thankfully, but too much of it left me unimpressed.

Danielson vs Kane was really, really good. Did everything well & what they needed to in only a sub-nine minute span. Kane was clubberin away, using his power to his advantage. Danielson was able to his cunning to get Kane off guard at times and eventually snag the pinfall on him. For the match they wanted to have it was done very well. Have zero complaints. Not to mention it was the most fun I had watching a match on the show - that helps. Like I said, the triple threat was the only other thing that came close.


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

i need MOAR shit to download


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KENSENBERG said:


> i need MOAR shit to download


Download every Al Wilson-related segment :troll


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2011 PPV calendar. If only to watch two shows I think are a blast - Hell in a Cell & Vengeance.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Got Bret/Austin from WM 13 lined to watch for the first time EVER.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> 2011 PPV calendar. If only to watch two shows I think are a blast - Hell in a Cell & Vengeance.


Imo - HIAC a blast? Not sure. I mean it's an OK show, imo the ME is awesome and has its decent moments (the ending, new IC belt, Christian/Sheamus and Henry/Orton) but everything else is beyond forgettable. If you wanna have a blast of pure fun, Survivor Series is much more recommended.

Vengeance rules, though. 2011 PPV's, bar WM, OTL and CP, are all at least solid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah thanks no. Survivor Series is only half special and I dig HIAC. Isn't rocket science.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You want something to watch? Go hop over to Hulu.com and check out the Zayn vs Swagger match from 9/4 NXT. Best Swagger match I've seen in a long long time. It's not as good as the Cesaro vs Zayn 2/3 Falls, but it is still pretty damn sweet. I saw it once and thought I didn't like it but I realized it was an edited version, the full version makes all the difference. I'm convinced Zayn is completely ready for the main roster. He is one of the best baby face performers I've ever seen, him removing the mask adds a lot to his performance and helps garner sympathy. Not to mention the guy takes as good of a bump as anyone in WWE right now. He amazes me every single week on NXT. ***1/2-***3/4 for me. I reccomend it to anyone.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for Zayn/Swagger. Didn't think there was anything remotely special about it. Some cool big spots but none of them were built to like the Cesaro matches. Was just a fun finishing stretch type match for the most part. 2009 ECW Swagger could have done some epic things with Zayn probably .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal you seem to be the only guy who doesn't think highly of it. :hayley2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Have you seen it?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> *** for Zayn/Swagger. Didn't think there was anything remotely special about it. Some cool big spots but none of them were built to like the Cesaro matches. Was just a fun finishing stretch type match for the most part. 2009 ECW Swagger could have done some epic things with Zayn probably .




You said there was nothing remotely special about it then gave it ***? That's a pretty solid rating and I wouldn't consider it totally unfair. I haven't seen a TON of Generico, just maybe 5-10 matches plus everything he's done as Zayn, so this stuff is all still relatively new and special to me. The guy just impresses me more and more every week, he's going to do just fine wi the "WWE style" and his selling and bumping is almost off the charts good. I really, REALLY, wanna see him get in the ring with a big bruiser like Henry or Show, that could make for some fantastic storytelling.

The first time I saw this match about 2-3 minutes were edited it out it made me think not as highly of it as I do now. You sure you saw the whole thing Cal? I don't see what there is to NOT like about it, you know? Not epic level great or anything but still very very good, in my opinion.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah I gave it *** because it's NOT a bad or unlikeable match, it's a ton of fun, just nowhere even close to the ****+ rating that the Cesaro 2/3 falls match deserves. I originally asked if there was an edited version out there when I posted about it in the NXT thread but nobody seemed to bother answering me lol. Maybe those couple of extra minutes go towards building to some of the spots rather than the spots just happening, I don't know, but I also don't know if I saw the full thing to begin with or not :lmao. Is the FULL one on hulu? If so I'll gladly watch it on there and see for myself, because if I DID see the edited version I would like to see the full version.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

****1/2 for Bret/Austin. Enjoyed the match, and that image of Austin in the sharpshooter screaming with blood covering his face is something else. 

Also watched Bret/Razor from King of the Ring. Super fun match, Bret does some nice arm work, and every time Razor attempts to counter and break the holds, Bret never releases.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao @ Vince trying to so hard to always get the Spanish demographic over the years. Watching so much '97 proves this isn't a recent thing from the last few years. Why does he care so much about one specific group of people? Twonk.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Zayn/Bryan is what I wanna see. That screams MOTY.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Any combination of Bryan/Cesaro/Zayn/Rollins would make me :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Generico getting to work vs Rollins again would blow my mind. But I'm dying for the Generico vs Punk match that we never got to see. It can happen now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Let's not forget other possible combos - Ohno/Cesaro, Ohno/Zayn, Punk/Cesaro, Sheamus/Zayn, Ziggler/Zayn, Henry/Cesaro, Ziggler/Rollins, Rollins/Reigns, Crowe/Punk, Crowe/Zayn...

Cody, I also read that the next WWE hiring is going to be Eddie Edwards :vince Still better than Richards or O'Reilly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie Edwards? No way. Guy is a good wrestler but DEATHLY bland as a personality. I don't object; I simply have a hard time believing it. Meanwhile Adam Cole isn't scooped up.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cesaro vs just about anybody right now would work. Him swinging Miz around off the barricade is still the greatest thing Miz has ever been a part of.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well other than being the ruthless American Dragon inside the ring and an awesome entrance theme, Bryan Danielson was rather characterless imo. We have to wait and see. He may surprise.

Mike Bennett is apparently a lock for the E in the future too. Others like Sean Burke, Tony DelFonzo, Todd Hanson and (UGH) Davey "Asshole" Richards were in the tryout too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never thought that about Danielson. He got billed as "bland" or characterless by some and I never thought it was fair. He always popped with who he was for me. Not an explosive personality like CM Punk, but he had personality to draw you in rather he was a babyface or a pristine asshole.

Mike Bennett has been working like shit all year so I'm hoping that's b/c he's checked out of ROH and wanting to join the E. I've felt he was a solid fit for the company in terms of "that style", but I really don't care to see him.

Still can't even comprehend how Davey is getting chances. Unless WWE feels once they limit him he can be really good. I hope Davey realizes that too. He won't be able to absorb 1,001 bits of offense if he joins. The only positive there is the limitations the company will provide. Again, don't want to see it. Probably better than Matt Morgan though. I at least used to like Davey.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I thought Danielson's "I'll do everything in my power to piss you fans off, but you'll cheer for me regardless because I'm the best motherfucking wrestler in the world" schtick that he rocked during his title reign (especially from the middle and towards the end) was magnificent. Also, comparing his character at the beginning of the reign against the likes of Aries, Sabin and Roddy, to the matches towards the end against Homicide, the difference in the character and visible progression of the character was awesome. What made it great as well was that he didn't need promos and interviews to get it over, he got it over perfectly using only his ring work.

Ya'll need to hop on this torrent to really see it. I think it's unfair to say he didn't have a character, or a bland character, before you've witnessed first hand the closest thing to a Ric Flair'esque title reign we've seen since Flair himself.

http://xtremewrestlingtorrents.net/details.php?id=75303

/BlindMark
/BiasedFan


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Sabin match sticks out in my mind b/c the entire bout Danielson worked it to completely "poke the bear" at Strong leading into the Vendetta match. To take prior nuances from a match one week prior _(vs Strong @ This Means War)_ and use it in the Sabin match to fuel the rematch the next night is unreal stuff. Chills at the booking process & work put forth to make it all click. And did it ever.

I have to get that Danielson pack. Been wanting to do a project on his championship reign for years. It's complete too. Should be no struggle to download unlike the 2007 which couldn't compute.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I never thought that about Danielson. He got billed as "bland" or characterless by some and I never thought it was fair. He always popped with who he was for me. Not an explosive personality like CM Punk, but he had personality to draw you in rather he was a babyface or a pristine asshole.
> 
> Mike Bennett has been working like shit all year so I'm hoping that's b/c he's checked out of ROH and wanting to join the E. I've felt he was a solid fit for the company in terms of "that style", but I really don't care to see him.
> 
> Still can't even comprehend how Davey is getting chances. Unless WWE feels once they limit him he can be really good. I hope Davey realizes that too. He won't be able to absorb 1,001 bits of offense if he joins. The only positive there is the limitations the company will provide. Again, don't want to see it. Probably better than Matt Morgan though. I at least used to like Davey.


Danielson was a murderer... in the ring. That was his "gimmick". He himself was a memorable personality, but not one I was too fond of.

Bennett would be good, if just for Maria and her ass returning to HD. Richards should just be gone. Matt Morgan at least had a good/fun match at BFG 2009 with TNA KURT ANGLE of all people.

Todd Hanson is the perfect mix of Luke Harper and Kevin Steen, I hope he makes it. DelFonzo and Burke idk. I too would love to see Eddie Kingston, Karl fucking Anderson, Matt Taven, (WWE-prepared) ***** Casas, and even despite the obvious issues of it, YAMATO.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> The Sabin match sticks out in my mind b/c the entire bout Danielson worked it to completely "poke the bear" at Strong leading into the Vendetta match. To take prior nuances from a match one week prior _(vs Strong @ This Means War)_ and use it in the Sabin match to fuel the rematch the next night is unreal stuff. Chills at the booking process & work put forth to make it all click. And did it ever.
> 
> I have to get that Danielson pack. Been wanting to do a project on his championship reign for years. It's complete too. Should be no struggle to download unlike the 2007 which couldn't compute.


Danielson absolutely destroying Sabin with backbreakers, only to top it off with The Stronghold was magnificent. 

FUCK.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Danielson was a murderer... in the ring. That was his "gimmick". He himself was a memorable personality, but not one I was too fond of.
> 
> Bennett would be good, if just for Maria and her ass returning to HD. Richards should just be gone. Matt Morgan at least had a good/fun match at BFG 2009 with TNA KURT ANGLE of all people.
> 
> Todd Hanson is the perfect mix of Luke Harper and Kevin Steen, I hope he makes it. DelFonzo and Burke idk. I too would love to see Eddie Kingston, Karl fucking Anderson, Matt Taven, (WWE-prepared) ***** Casas, and even despite the obvious issues of it, YAMATO.


Angle vs Morgan match is so bad, c'mon man. Davey at least has had his good - great matches before COMPLETELY _(it was always there, I know)_ turning to trash.

I saw Todd Hanson on a recent ROH TV show. He looked fine. Reminded me of Mike Knox to no end. Kingston finally coming to WWE would blow my mind. Anderson would be a chump to leave considering how well he's used over in Japan, Taven would be a good pick up, ***** Casas is a weird reach b/c he's old, & a Japanese guy can never have success in WWE. It's stupid, but truth. Takeshi Morishima is "too fat". Ok, Vince. Nice observation ya twit.

Who WWE really needs to scout is Mr. Touchdown Mark Angelosetti. Now that guy is WWE bound.



FluxCapacitor said:


> Danielson absolutely destroying Sabin with backbreakers, only to top it off with The Stronghold was magnificent.
> 
> FUCK.


:mark:

I didn't even know how the match was or what else filled the card & it didn't matter. Ages ago with the $10 sale I saw the cover - Danielson vs Sabin - boom. Instant purchase. No regrets. Their PWG match in 2009 also owns.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've only ever seen Dragon/Sabin from the show. Aries/Shelley sounds like it could be sweet, the rest looks bleh. But I'd do the same as you and buy the show just for the main, especially for that price.

Edit: On a somewhat WWE-relevant note, seeing as someone is going to try and hush us at some point, I'm going to go and watch the Bret/Hakushi match from 95 that Jack Evans187 told me to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

On the last watch Aries vs Shelley wasn't too good. Styles & Sydal vs Rave & Abyss rocked as did the Homicide & Cabana brawl. It's a good show overall, I'd say. Vendetta hit harder with the premiere matches, but you still long for those double shots in this day & age.

Bret vs Hakushi is the tops. Great match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Angle vs Morgan match is so bad, c'mon man. Davey at least has had his good - great matches before COMPLETELY _(it was always there, I know)_ turning to trash.
> 
> I saw Todd Hanson on a recent ROH TV show. He looked fine. Reminded me of Mike Knox to no end. Kingston finally coming to WWE would blow my mind. Anderson would be a chump to leave considering how well he's used over in Japan, Taven would be a good pick up, ***** Casas is a weird reach b/c he's old, & a Japanese guy can never have success in WWE. It's stupid, but truth. Takeshi Morishima is "too fat". Ok, Vince. Nice observation ya twit.
> 
> Who WWE really needs to scout is Mr. Touchdown Mark Angelosetti. Now that guy is WWE bound.


Well I enjoyed it. "Good" is a stretch, but it's fun. At least there's that. It's TNA Angle and Morgan after all. Davey might've had his good stuff, but you can say that out of even Hornswoggle (like the Miz & Morrison tags w/Finlay). The guy is an arrogant bitch who jizzes to his athleticism and forgets that selling is one of the most crucial parts of wrestling.

Mike Knox. Why are him, Gallows, Archer and Masters not still in the company is beyond me. Anderson is to America what Sting is to WWE, but c'mon the guy fucking deserves it. Casas, old or not, is still putting on some of the best stuff in Lucha like the Rush matches. If he's not Mistico'ed, the hype will be bought. And technically Tajiri was succesful 

Forgot about Angelosetti. That guy has everything the WWE wants - looks, charisma, mic skills, ring skills... And even though he is Japanese, Kenny Omega too since he's fun as hell and got a great match out of a doll (YOSHIHIKO).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Talking about HHH as a heel, he got me hating him as soon as he debuted with the English 'blueblood' gimmick


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I second the Mr. Touchdown coming to WWE response. NERDS!



FluxCapacitor said:


> Edit: On a somewhat WWE-relevant note, seeing as someone is going to try and hush us at some point, I'm going to go and watch the Bret/Hakushi match from 95 that Jack Evans187 told me to watch.


The RAW 7/24 match is really good but some people actually prefer their match from the In Your House debut (not me). Very first match on the card. Either way both are good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I found my wallet after 24 no-sleep, PARANOID, HIGH ANXIETY filled hours, I swear there isnt a worst feeling

And now its time to get back in the mood of something I love "grapplin"


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Eddie Edwards in WWE makes no sense to me. He will bore the fans more than Del Rio does. He can wrestle halfway decent but he had no character, charisma or mic skills.

Davey has hope if they can revert him back to 2007. He has at least shown potential unlike Edwards.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another guy that certainly looks WWE'ized, though as a manager, is Truth "BOSS" Martini.

You know what, the WWE should just rip-off DDT and create the SUPER HARDCORE TITLE to parody the Ironman Heavymetalweight Title. Priceless TV right there. Then they'd go Saints Row on that shit and have THE PENETRATOR win the title... only to drop it to Mae Young's son.

I should be in creative :vince


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Well I enjoyed it. "Good" is a stretch, but it's fun. At least there's that. It's TNA Angle and Morgan after all. Davey might've had his good stuff, but you can say that out of even Hornswoggle (like the Miz & Morrison tags w/Finlay). The guy is an arrogant bitch who jizzes to his athleticism and forgets that selling is one of the most crucial parts of wrestling.
> 
> Mike Knox. Why are him, Gallows, Archer and Masters not still in the company is beyond me. Anderson is to America what Sting is to WWE, but c'mon the guy fucking deserves it. Casas, old or not, is still putting on some of the best stuff in Lucha like the Rush matches. If he's not Mistico'ed, the hype will be bought. And technically Tajiri was succesful
> 
> Forgot about Angelosetti. That guy has everything the WWE wants - looks, charisma, mic skills, ring skills... And even though he is Japanese, Kenny Omega too since he's fun as hell and got a great match out of a doll (YOSHIHIKO).


Yeah, I get hating Davey and I do, but not it's not like that at all. Hornswoggle is a mini guy with about two good matches under his belt that he didn't even contribute towards. Davey has had enough good matches to hold rank. I don't happen to care for his personality & mentality towards the business though and he's shit personified more often than not. Still stand by my Morgan point. Lesser of two evils. Besides, Davey in New Japan actually managed to work out too. Perhaps WWE can limit him to where that same manta could fly.

Smith Jr. too. Baffling. I don't care if Anderson makes it or not b/c his Japan work is bossy. I'm cool where ever he may be. Not knocking his talent, but it's unusual and WWE wouldn't go for it. Early to mid-30's signing is one thing. Not for someone in their 50's. That's true. Tajiri broke the mold. Taka did before becoming a jobber, but even then he was still over & established among the fans. Had the match vs Trips in 2000 after all.

Omega isn't Japanese. He's Canadian who works damn near exclusively in Japan. So there can be hope for him. Should be hope for Ibushi too since he had the legendary match vs YOSHIHIKO. Now I want to watch an abundance of DDT.

-------------

Davey in 2007 wasn't any good except for the faction matches here and there. _(best vs Aries from Man Up)_ That's established b/c he had two boring matches vs El Generico. Sorry son, you get no praise for that. Move along.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I really want to see the entire Danielson title reign, too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is swaggie/zayn as good as I'm hearing ?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, I get hating Davey and I do, but not it's not like that at all. Hornswoggle is a mini guy with about two good matches under his belt that he didn't even contribute towards. Davey has had enough good matches to hold rank. I don't happen to care for his personality & mentality towards the business though and he's shit personified more often than not. Still stand by my Morgan point. Lesser of two evils. Besides, Davey in New Japan actually managed to work out too. Perhaps WWE can limit him to where that same manta could fly.
> 
> Smith Jr. too. Baffling. I don't care if Anderson makes it or not b/c his Japan work is bossy. I'm cool where ever he may be. Not knocking his talent, but it's unusual and WWE wouldn't go for it. Early to mid-30's signing is one thing. Not for someone in their 50's. That's true. Tajiri broke the mold. Taka did before becoming a jobber, but even then he was still over & established among the fans. Had the match vs Trips in 2000 after all.
> 
> Omega isn't Japanese. He's Canadian who works damn near exclusively in Japan. So there can be hope for him. Should be hope for Ibushi too since he had the legendary match vs YOSHIHIKO. Now I want to watch an abundance of DDT.


Well, Davey can work. I don't doubt that. I personally enjoyed, for example, the Vordell Walker '06 match. He's like the evolution of :kurt in the terms of being very good when "tamed". But he's full of himself to the point of not selling because "he doesn't care about it". He ruins his matches on his own will. I just can't stand the bastard. The Aries match I found terribly overhyped. Then again, I did watch Punk/Aries beforehand.

DH could've been huge. He was pretty good during the Hart Dynasty days iirc. YOSHIHIKO - the blow doll who wrestles *cough* better than 50% of the current ROH roster tbh 

Ibushi would be a terrific addition to the E's current impressive list of cruiserweights. On that note Hunter did hint at a return of the CW Title on Raw, which is great for *business*. I'm in a DDT mood too. CAMPSITE PRO WRASSLIN :mark: Though I wonder how do y'all deal w/the Jap. commentary.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So WWE.com has a poll up at the very bottom of their home page on which Title you'd rather see brought back: the Cruiserweight Title or European Title? Considering the European Title wouldn't make a lick of sense unless Cesaro held it the entire time, I went with the Cruiserweight. Vote on it folks!

A cruiserweight division with Rollins, Bourne, Gabriel, Kidd, Mysterio (?), Tatsu, etc. and eventually Zayn, Crowe, and who knows.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

redskins25 said:


> is swaggie/zayn as good as I'm hearing ?


it's pretty damn good


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Devoting my entire weekend(bar tonight) to the Clash of the champions match set. Gonna start now, Sting vs Flair up first!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Well, Davey can work. I don't doubt that. I personally enjoyed, for example, the Vordell Walker '06 match. He's like the evolution of :kurt in the terms of being very good when "tamed". But he's full of himself to the point of not selling because "he doesn't care about it". He ruins his matches on his own will. I just can't stand the bastard. The Aries match I found terribly overhyped. Then again, I did watch Punk/Aries beforehand.
> 
> DH could've been huge. He was pretty good during the Hart Dynasty days iirc. YOSHIHIKO - the blow doll who wrestles *cough* better than 50% of the current ROH roster tbh
> 
> Ibushi would be a terrific addition to the E's current impressive list of cruiserweights. On that note Hunter did hint at a return of the CW Title on Raw, which is great for *business*. I'm in a DDT mood too. CAMPSITE PRO WRASSLIN :mark: Though I wonder how do y'all deal w/the Jap. commentary.


Didn't even know he once worked vs Vordell Walker. Guessing that may have been in FIP. Idk. Hate Walker so I'm not interested in seeing, lolz. Which Aries match - the world championship bout from '09? b/c I thought that was pretty good, but not as great as most wanted to claim it. The Aries match vs Davey that I loved was from 2007. Had another good one in 2006 too @ Dethroned.

He was good. He's even better now. Guy had a tremendous showing in the G1 Climax this year + some other top performances prior to it. I'm really high on him. YOSIHIKO should be ROH World Championship over Michael Elgin. _(not a spoiler, but it's painfully obvious that mong will win.)_

Last one I watched was Bookstore Pro Wrestling. Best stuff ever. Love how the fans eat up the wackiness too. More people other than myself who find it awesome. As for Japanese commentary, I have zero gripes. I like it b/c 9/10 the commentary is exciting and adds to the match. Some of the play by play guys go nuts. It's great. Unlike where in Mexico I usually tune out the commentary b/c it sucks. And I actually know some of the words. Go figure.

-----------

Cruiserweight Championship vote? I'm not getting my hopes up. Remember when everyone thought Cesaro winning the United States Championship would meant he would morph it into the European? 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp swagger/zayn was fucking great, time to dust off the ole MOTYC list ****-****1/4 ?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cody, you seen this Swagger/Zayn match yet?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

@Cody, the Dethroned 2006 one. I thought it was OK but terrifically overhyped and dissapointing after going through Punk/Aries. Back in 06/07, it was the Davey Richards is BITW craze, so I expected slightly better.

And because we're talking of DDT, I think I'll start a BTB based on the Ironman Heavymetalweight Championship 8*D


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> @Cody, the Dethroned 2006 one. I thought it was OK but terrifically overhyped and dissapointing after going through Punk/Aries. Back in 06/07, it was the Davey Richards is BITW craze, so I expected slightly better.
> 
> And because we're talking of DDT, I think I'll start a BTB based on the Ironman Heavymetalweight Championship 8*D


I wouldn't say 06/07 was Davey BITW at all. That was more '09 when Danielson and others pegged him as being that. '06/'07 was all Danielson with a splash of Nigel.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If it wasn't those years, it certainly started. Danielson was the undisputed WOTY in 06, that's FACT  But around that time the Davey Richards insanity was coming to a start for sure.

I shall name my BTB "Brainbusting Professional Wrestling" :vince Or maybe "Moves, Spots And Blowjobs Entertainment" :vince3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd rather have broken down DUI Kurt Angle back in WWE than Richards or Edwards. Friggin EAAAAASILY. Fuck sake I'd rather have Konan.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I will now spoil you the very 1st BPW Universe Champion:


Spoiler: WORKRATEWORKRATEBPWOHMYFUCKINGGOODNESSIUBDAIÇBDB



THE PENETRATOR from Saints Row The Third :vince


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Welp swagger/zayn was fucking great, time to dust off the ole MOTYC list ****-****1/4 ?


That's a bit higher than I had it, I said around ***3/4. Superb match, best one I've seen from Swagger in a LONG time. Doesn't compare with the Cesaro 2/3 Falls match, atleast in my book. The Cesaro match is in my top 5 for MotY. I only have Punk/Lesnar, Punk/Taker, Bryan/Cena, and Punk/Cena from RAW ahead of it. Cesaro/Zayn knocked Ziggler/ADR out of my top 5.

What a wonderful year this has been. 2012 was such a mediocre/bad TV match year, only 5-10 fantastic PPV matches kept the year from being one of the worst of the 2000's. I'm really really hoping Zayn gets his call up before Mania next year, the guy is just head and shoulders above 80% of the main roster right now, it'd be so silly to keep him in NXT for over a year.

I'd LOVE to see a Cruiserweight Division take hold. As long as they drop the US Title for it I'm totally game. For that matter I'd love for them to drop the WHC too or else they should elevate it by putting it on a guy like Punk or Ziggler. ADR's reign has just been brutal to the value of the belt. It was already going down the drain, putting it on a guy who comes out to crickets every night is certainly not helping anything. Having all these titles would be manageable if WWE had the roster it had in 02-05. Their just isn't enough big name guys to make the titles seem like something more than prop. 

I Pre-ordered the Best of Mid-South set, I'm really pumped up for some old school DiBiase and Jake Roberts.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I wish I could join in on this convo but I have no clue who any of these guys are besides dbryan. I guess I'm one of those guys that onylk watch wcw/nwa/wwe with alittle japan


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2012 IS one of the worst years of the 2000s to be honest. Imo only 2004, 2007 and 2009 were worse than it tbh. PPV quality was nice with a couple ****+s but other than PPV's, 2013 has it beat in EVERYTHING.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Hard to be critical of 2004 since there was still the brand split and a lot of those SD PPVs were atrocious iirc.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raw 2004 was beautiful, sure. Everything else... kinda sucked. Badly. That Armageddon PPV... *vomits*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I honesty thought about stopping my wwe viewing in late 12, I actually stopped around sept until the build of tlc


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I would love if they brought back the cruiserweight title. The division would be stacked. 

@ redskins 25.....if you need some dvds to buy all of these are phenomenal.....

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/summer-punk-2-disc-set

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/cm-punk-second-city-saint-2-disc-set


http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/bryan-danielson-american-dragon-2-disc-set

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/samoa-joe-vs-cm-punk-collectors-edition-2-disc-set

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product...gel-mcguinness-complete-collection-2-disc-set

http://www.rohwrestling.com/product/bryan-danielson-world-champion-2-disc-set


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> 2012 IS one of the worst years of the 2000s to be honest. Imo only 2004, 2007 and 2009 were worse than it tbh. PPV quality was nice with a couple ****+s but other than PPV's, 2013 has it beat in EVERYTHING.


lol @ 2004 being worse than 2012. No way in hell! Even with Smackdown being bad, Raw was so good that it cancels it out. In 2012, BOTH Raw and Smackdown were dogshit. A few good PPVs here and there but not much more.

2012 is easily the WORST year since 1995. I haven't watched 95, but if I did, it wouldn't be impossible to find out that it's actually more bearable than 2012.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Smackdown 04 was worse than dogshit. You have guys like Guerrero, JBL, Taker, Mysterio, Angle, Cena, Show, Rey, Booker, RVD, Kidman, Noble and the Dudleys and they still put on a horrendous show. Raw needed a bit more than it had already to redeem SD.

At least 2012 had plenty of good PPV's. None of them any worse than the vomitbags that were shows like Judgment Day, Great American Bash and Armageddon 04. Everything Raw related was awesome - but SD was just too awful.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Meh, I think SD 04 still had its moments. The shows were not very good on a consistent basis and the midcard was bland as fuck. But you had cool moments like Eddie stealing JBL's limo and crashing it into whatever was in front of him, Angle's GM run was hilarious ("I can never have sex with my wife again!"), JBL tombstoning MidgetTaker and Heidenreich raping Michael Cole (LOL). Plus there are some quality matches too like Cena/Taker, Eddie/Rey, Eddie/JBL inside a cage and so on. Beats whatever that shit WWE presented us last year after Extreme Rules.

And speaking of the PPVs, Judgment Day had Eddie vs JBL which is better than every match from 2012 except maybe Lesnar/Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Cody, you seen this Swagger/Zayn match yet?


Oh yeah. It's mindblowing.

Zayn brother. He's still the best.



ATF said:


> @Cody, the Dethroned 2006 one. I thought it was OK but terrifically overhyped and dissapointing after going through Punk/Aries. Back in 06/07, it was the Davey Richards is BITW craze, so I expected slightly better.
> 
> And because we're talking of DDT, I think I'll start a BTB based on the Ironman Heavymetalweight Championship 8*D


That's unusual. That show always got crapped on _(and fair enough)_ & no one ever really talked about it. Not sure why you compared Aries vs Punk to it too. That was working on a WAY larger scope with Punk's "last match" & being for the world championship. Where as Dethroned was a lower tier show and the match was based solely on competition only with Davey wanting to beat Aries for pinning him in Boston. The Davey vs Aries match wasn't going to compare via drama alone. :hayley2

The '06 & '07 years weren't when Davey got his craze. That was easily 2009 when the Wolves were around and people thought he was going to be the next Danielson. _(lmao, I know.)_



Yeah1993 said:


> I'd rather have broken down DUI Kurt Angle back in WWE than Richards or Edwards. Friggin EAAAAASILY.* Fuck sake I'd rather have Konan.*


THINK ABOUT THE CONSEQUENCES, MATE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching the 25 greatest rivalites on netlfix, :lmao @ how much they break kayfabe

How Michael Hayes didnt get in any trouble ? in talking about the hbk/taker feud

" I'm a producer soooo I help guys out with the matches"

" Shawn was thinking of retiring so, I thought "hey lets do something with it" :lamo


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Smackdown 04 was worse than dogshit. You have guys like Guerrero, JBL, Taker, Mysterio, Angle, Cena, Show, Rey, Booker, RVD, Kidman, Noble and the Dudleys and they still put on a horrendous show. Raw needed a bit more than it had already to redeem SD.
> 
> At least 2012 had plenty of good PPV's. None of them any worse than the vomitbags that were shows like Judgment Day, Great American Bash and Armageddon 04. Everything Raw related was awesome - but SD was just too awful.


Judgement Day 2004 had a ***** classic match with JBL and Eddie. One of the top top matches ever.. Can't call a PPV dogshit if it has one of the best matches in wrestling history, even if the undercard sucks hard.

2004 had some phenomenal workers and so did 2009 (Christian in 2009 was just :mark so I'd have to say all of those years are comfortably ahead of 2012 for TV. Haven't seen much 2007 so I can't make a judgement call on that.

Smackdown is on in 30 minutes, I wonder what they are gonna subject poor Ziggler to this week. Ugh. If I wasn't so happy with the general direction right now I'd be a lot more upset about what they are doing to zig zag and the lack of TV time given to Cesaro.


Edit- I just turned on scyfy early for Smackdown, and the first face I see is Edge's......I was so confused. Then I realized its this show Haven that I guess he is doing. What a weird kawinky dink. Miss me some Rated R Superstar.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

your telling me man, he is my favorite , I always hear ppl saying wwe reads this and other forums, will vince and hhh if you see this 

PUSH ZIGGLER
PUSH ZIGGLER
PUSH ZIGGLER


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

cjack828 said:


> Smackdown is on in 30 minutes, I wonder what they are gonna subject poor Ziggler to this week. Ugh. If I wasn't so happy with the general direction right now I'd be a lot more upset about what they are doing to zig zag and the lack of TV time given to Cesaro.


Well the good news is Cesaro has a match (tag) on SD this week .

The bad... uhhh... well it's kinda good that Ziggler is on the show, right?  I'll leave it there...

Watching NXT on hulu.com atm. The episode is 55 minutes, the download I got was 42 so I'm guessing Zayn/Swagger was indeed edited that I saw.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have to say a large chunk of 2009 sounds pretty appealing. Will probably go on to watch the whole year once I finish June 2007 (I'm getting bored at this point, though) and then all the Attitude Era years. (which are luckily uploaded on that watchwrestling site!)

And speaking of Smackdown, watching it now, thanks to watchwrestling again!


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

smitty915 said:


> Devoting my entire weekend(bar tonight) to the Clash of the champions match set. Gonna start now, Sting vs Flair up first!


It's a great match. Unfortunately it's the only match on the set that I watched. I have a really hard time watching older matches in succession. It's really annoying for me as well as there are a ton of sets I have that I haven't watched because I never made it through the first disc and I refuse to watch them out of order. 

I'm almost amazed I made it through the first 2 disc of War Games and can now watch the matches of my childhood that I bought the set for. My parents never ordered Fall Brawl for me (probably because they ordered Summerslam for me) so I missed out on all of the matches on the set aside from War Games 2000 that was on Nitro.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Well the good news is Cesaro has a match (tag) on SD this week .
> 
> The bad... uhhh... well it's kinda good that Ziggler is on the show, right?  I'll leave it there...
> 
> Watching NXT on hulu.com atm. The episode is 55 minutes, the download I got was 42 so I'm guessing Zayn/Swagger was indeed edited that I saw.



I really hope you enjoy it, I think it was a superb match and Zayn is just everything an under dog baby face should be. I'm becoming a totally fan boy for him. I sweat Zayn. I do.

What are your alls thoughts on Cody vs Orton from Raw? I missed the match because my girlfriend was over and I'm wondering if I should hop over to Hulu when Smackdown is over.

Any Cesaro TV time is a good thing for me, I just wish they would allow him to showcase himself better I'm a 10-12 minute IC title match or something. The guy is almost flawless, from a character work stand point, to a in ring performance stand point, and from a build standpoint. Looks don't normally matter all that much to me, but man Cesaro just looks like a total ass kicking bad ass, which is exactly what he is.

:lmao at Haitch's heel promos. He is ridic right now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've yet to see Cody Vs Orton. Mainly because on paper it makes me wanna sleep .

Well so much for me watching Swagger/Zayn on Hulu. After sitting through 4 fucking ads just so I could skip to when the match started, it got to the ad break during the match and never went back. Just a black screen and crashed, and fuck sitting through 5 ads to skip ahead to where I needed to be lol. Found a download with the same length so hopefully it'll be full this time .

Edit: Problem with Cesaro going for the IC or even US title again right now is that both guys holding them are heels. IC title desperately needs to go to someone else though. I'd even have his opponent from SD this week beat him for it as long as he's a placeholder for Cesaro to beat him for it (like, the next show lol).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I've yet to see Cody Vs Orton. Mainly because on paper it makes me wanna sleep .
> 
> Well so much for me watching Swagger/Zayn on Hulu. After sitting through 4 fucking ads just so I could skip to when the match started, it got to the ad break during the match and never went back. Just a black screen and crashed, and fuck sitting through 5 ads to skip ahead to where I needed to be lol. Found a download with the same length so hopefully it'll be full this time .
> 
> Edit: Problem with Cesaro going for the IC or even US title again right now is that both guys holding them are heels. IC title desperately needs to go to someone else though. I'd even have his opponent from SD this week beat him for it as long as he's a placeholder for Cesaro to beat him for it (like, the next show lol).


Man that sucks. I got a sneaky sneak cheat code that gives me Hulu Plus on my tv without having to pay and I only have to sit through 1 30 second add for a 55 minute show. Pretty sweet.

Uh oh. They just announced Ziggler is fighting Ryback. I smell what Haitch is cookin', he's cookin some more shitty squash match bookin' for my man Ziggy. Fucks wrong with creative. Ugh.

Yea I do like Cody for the most part, not an Orton guy persinally though, so I wasn't like pressed to see the match they had at Raw. They just showed a few highlights from it on Smackdown and sounded like the crowd was really hot for it so I thought I'd ask

Edit- sorry I feel the need to give Orton props for something I've noticed from him. Nobody in the history of wrestling takes a better "KO Bump" than Orton. When he and his opponent are both standing and the opponent either kicks him in the head or gives him a chair shot to the head, his " out on his feet crumple into a pile bump" is just fantastic. If you don't know what I'm talking about, see the bump he just took from an RVD roundhouse kick or the bump he takes in Backlash 2004 when Foley clocks him with a cookie sheet. Phenomenal stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Apparently Dolph is in the "dog house" for some comment he made in an interview during SummerSlam weekend. According to interwebs rumour sites anyway. We'll see.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I read that to, but Dolph says shit like that all the time, he even said stuff like that on the wwe download ?

Cody/Orton ? wasn't that great tbh, I think their nov 11 and earlier raw match this year smoke it and its not even close

swagger/zayn is where its at though. great fucking match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> Edit- sorry I feel the need to give Orton props for something I've noticed from him. Nobody in the history of wrestling takes a better "KO Bump" than Orton. When he and his opponent are both standing and the opponent either kicks him in the head or gives him a chair shot to the head, his " out on his feet crumple into a pile bump" is just fantastic. If you don't know what I'm talking about, see the bump he just took from an RVD roundhouse kick or the bump he takes in Backlash 2004 when Foley clocks him with a cookie sheet. Phenomenal stuff.


Orton is a great seller. Always was and still is. Nothing new about that. Specially when he used to spin around in the ring like he's concussed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I read that to, but Dolph says shit like that all the time, he even said stuff like that on the wwe download ?
> 
> Cody/Orton ? wasn't that great tbh, I think their nov 11 and earlier raw match this year smoke it and its not even close
> 
> swagger/zayn is where its at though. great fucking match



If I were Dolph and being that talented with THAT crappy of booking, I'd be speaking out a hell of a lot more than he is. I don't think Dolph is a world beater or anything, but man, when you have guys like ADR and Orton (yawn) holding you're championships while Ziggler, someone with a great look and great wrestling ability, has to job to Ryback in consecutive weeks, I mean what are you thinking? 

If you're going to have heel Orton as your long term champ, but not make Orton change how he looks or works or cuts promos and he's essentially the same boring ass Viper from the past 3 years, you need to balance that out by pushing the hell out of some interesting and charismatic baby faces to have ready as viable opponents. Orton can be a GREAT top heel, he just needs a good face to feud with. Orton as a face is just no good for me, he needs to be a heel dor me to be interested in him. Last time I checked, WWE isn't stacked to the gills with charismatic faces who could viably work with Orton(Cena is out for a while, Punks locked in a feud with Heyman, and Bryan is feuding with Orton now. That only leaves you Dolph as a credible main even baby face). Why not push the hell out of Ziggler and have him ready for a main event level feud? You wanna punish him, fine then fine him money, don't make the product and fans suffer because of ego. That's what normal sports do. A guy says something bad about his coach? He gets fined, they don't hold him out of the game. Dumb.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yep he is in the doghouse

Edit: I stand to be corrected the orton/rhodes 2011 match I was refering to was in sept 11


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

In another thread the other day the topic was your favorite match of the year for every year since you started watching wrestling (or even before if you want) and I'd love to see everyones list who didnt post over there


humor me fellow rasslin geeks


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

"Good God, that's Kofi Kingston's music! And Good God, that's Curtis Axel's music! Good God, I think I found the perfect time for a cigarette break!"

Snooze.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

cjack828 said:


> You wanna punish him, fine then fine him money, don't make the product and *fans suffer* because of ego.


Don't know about others, but this fan right here is damn sure not suffering from Ziggler's lack of push. In fact, I only enjoy the product more with that.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I buy into the rumors that's Ziggler's in the doghouse. I mean, Ziggler went from being a red hot World Champion to feuding with AJ and Big E, and is now jobbing every week to anyone they went (The Shield twice, Ryback twice, and even Antonio Cesaro on SUPERSTARS). I know Ziggler's always been booked bad, but the handling of him since he lost the World Title has been dreadful.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Ziggler's career has always been booked crap. Whether it's pairing up with Vickie or pairing him up with AJ/Big E, it's pretty clear WWE don't trust him without a manager. Unfortunetly, he will never be a permanent main eventer IMO.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Sucks that Ziggler had two lackluster World title reigns. One that lasted fifteen minutes and another that was a shame since he had a concussion and lost the title in his FIRST title defense within two months of his reign. It's a shame since I really like the guy and want him to have a proper World title reign


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Ziggler's career has always been booked crap. Whether it's pairing up with Vickie or pairing him up with AJ/Big E, it's pretty clear WWE don't trust him without a manager. Unfortunetly, he will never be a permanent main eventer IMO.


Its more of a testament to him that he gets the huge pops during portions of his career that he has gotten, oozes charisma and "it" factor. If only he had a semi of a orton push, but you could say that for alot of guys, maybe there should be a flyer back stage " if you want to get a push, smoke mary jane and make horrible odd facial expressions and you can become wwe champ"


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Its more of a testament to him that he gets the huge pops during portions of his career that he has gotten, oozes charisma and "it" factor. If only he had a semi of a orton push, but you could say that for alot of guys, *maybe there should be a flyer back stage " if you want to get a push, smoke mary jane and make horrible odd facial expressions and you can become wwe champ"*


Quote of the week hahahaha

love it


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Don't know about others, but this fan right here is damn sure not suffering from Ziggler's lack of push. In fact, I only enjoy the product more with that.


If you want your boy Orton to have a good long reign, it's pertinent that he have more than just Bryan to feud with. I'm sure the WWE is hoping and praying they can keep the product on TV entertaining enough to have Bryan chase the title until Mania, where he will get the huge payoff and win the strap. For that to happen, Orton is gonna need more than one top face to work with. He's got Bryan, but nobody wants another Cena Orton feud when Cena comes back, and Punk is gonna be done with the title picture for a while, so that really only leaves Ziggler. They need to build him to have as a credible challenge to the corporations Face of the WWE. Plus for what's its worth, I think Ziggler can have some kick ass matches with a heel Orton. The story could almost write itself.

I'm always a way bigger fan of having a great heel as champ and having a baby face chase him, so I'm actually hoping Orton keeps the belt for a while. He's the best heel they have got ATM I just wish they'd switch his style up and I wish he'd work more heel Orton style than 10'-13' Viper style. He seems to still be working as a face to me.


Just my .02 cents.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd have no problem with Ziggler having title matches with Orton where he loses but no more than that. There are enough people in the roster that can feud with Orton. RVD could have a one-off match, there's Big Show, I always welcome another Cena feud, Jericho would be a good opponent should he come back any time soon, same for Sheamus whenever he's back. All other alternatives not named Ziggler or Bryan. Hell, I wouldn't mind Henry vs Orton again with Henry returning the favor after Orton put him over big in 2011.

As for Orton's wrestling style, I think he's slowly changing to more heelish. He doesn't do the chinlock as much as when he was a heel before which is not a bad thing and he's already ditched the 5 moves of doom he had and that was the biggest "face" thing about his moveset in 2010-2013. I hope he starts using the T-Bone and Gutwrench Neckbreaker again, though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

An Orton/Dolph feud for the WWE title would be badass. Orton v Dolph NoC last year? Holy shit good stuff! :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Haven't watched Orton vs. Dolph from NOC since its first airing, but I remember it being pretty damn good. 

Bryan vs. Rollins from SD tonight was a pretty nice match considering the time it got.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bryan/rollins was fvery nice for a 8 min match

don't waste your time with their noc match, their august 11 match is pretty good though

Am I drunk or do you and machoman1988 have the same sig ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I haven't seen Orton Dolph NoC period, I had forgotten they had that match last year, ill def have to check that out those two guys styles just seem like they'd mesh really really well in the ring. I'd much prefer Orton to play the role of heel though and just beat the piss out of Ziggler so he can bump and sell like a mad man and tell a great under dog story.

I wasn't saying Dolph should actually WIN against Orton if they feuded now, just have a small Ziggler Orton program for a PPV or 2 to help kill time in the most entertaining way possible while still building towards a big Bryam pay off at mania. Plus getting to work main even level matches with a guy like Prton could give Dolph a great rub and move him in the right direction.

I pretty much just want to see ADR out of the WHC picture so guys like Sandow, Rhodes, Ziggler,and RVD can have a good chance to shine. Im also all for some more Mark effing Henry and Big Show. I'm so over the ADR as a champ experiment. Do you guys realize some ass hat made a thread in the General WWE section claiming ADR is the new improved Eddie fucking Guerrero??!! This shit has to stop. Him holding the title for so long and being in the main event scene is just warping these idiots minds into thinking that being an above average worker with no charisma and no character is the equivelant of being one of the top wrestlers in history. So so lame.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Am I drunk or do you and machoman1988 have the same sig ?



I think we just mark for the same folks haha. Wish I was drunk...enjoy playa.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wish I was, taking it easy tonight, watched smackdown with some pabst ribbon, not bad, there is a wild-west party tomorrow that should be good

For those trying to watch a dolph/orton match I highly recommend raw 8/11 over their noc

may dust off the old wwe 13 for a few


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love WWE 13. I suck at video games but I play them. That will be tough to beat for rasslin games. Even my non rasslin fan friends loved it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Flair/Sting was godly

Hope the rest of the DVD doesn't suck, watching top 25 rivalries now


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Flair/Sting was godly


Hell yes it was. I miss Clash of the Champions. Bring that shit back Vince!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This company and Kofi Kingston. It's like a sick joke. Really. There are no words. It should be a game where when he wins another championship you take a dose of heroin. You'd be dead before a year is complete.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Extreme Rules 2012


_Falls Count Anywhere:_
*Kane vs. Randy Orton*

They must have watched some matches from the Attitude Era before they had this match. They spent a good chunk of time brawling in the crowd. I'm not a huge fan of that in the first place but I was even more annoyed by the fact that there was no point in them being in the crowd. They literally did a lap around the arena throwing punches at each other. There was one bodyslam on the floor but other than that there was nothing that made the match stand out. I was left feeling that there was no point in them being in the crowd because they could have done the same stuff in the ring. They went backstage for a while as well but that was still mostly them throwing punches and throwing each other into walls. 

I don't want to sound too negative about the match. I get what they were going for, they wanted this to feel and look like a slug fest between two heavyweights. They accomplished that goal. The match wasn't bad by any means. It's just that I wanted them to make this feel like an out of control brawl. Hit someone with a weapon when you have the chance, use your surroundings, isn't that the whole point of having the match take place somewhere that isn't the ring? They did improve as the match wore on (once they got back to the ringside area). The last half of this match was actually pretty awesome. In the end this felt like a war between badasses. Nobody was ever in control and it had the intensity that they were going for. This was a really good match that could have been even better if they tried to more in the first half. 
*****


*Dolph Ziggler w/Vickie and Jack Swagger. vs. Brodus Clay w/Hornswaggle, Cameron, and Naomi*

This is the kind of shit that I think WWE is thankfully moving away from. Ziggler comes out to a huge ovation and gets cheered by just about everyone in attendance. He then proceedes to get squashed by Brodus Clay. Ziggler's offense seemed to be useless and the only way he was able to get in offense was by having Swagger help him. Ziggler deserved better than this. 
***


_Tables Match for the Intercontinental Championship_
*The Big Show(c) vs. Cody Rhodes* 

Cody gets his ass kicked from bell to bell and then after the bell. He got in a few cool looking spots but other than that this was an ass kicking. So right from the start you felt that Cody didn't have a chance in hell of winning. So when he pulled off the cheap win it was a pretty cool moment. Nothing special about the match, I would say the last 30 seconds and post match beatdown were better than the rest of the match. The segment as a whole was a lot of fun.
****


Got to love Jerry Lawler in the next segment. Bryan cuts a promo and clearly the crowd loved him yet Lawler goes and says the exact opposite after the promo.



_2-Out-Of-3 Falls for the World Heavyweight Championship_
*Sheamus(c) vs. Daniel Bryan*

This was pretty fantastic. I loved the first fall where Bryan established that he could hang in the ring with Sheamus. It was exactly what they needed to do after their match at Wrestlemania. We saw some arm work early from Bryan but he was never really able to take control of the match, but we saw that he wanted to employ that strategy. The match was taken to the next level when Sheamus ended up crashing into the ring post shoulder first. I loved the facial reactions from Bryan when that happened. It's like you could see him thinking and figuring out what he was going to do with the huge oppurtunity that he had been given. The intentional DQ from him was smart and set up the next fall perfectly when he tied it up. SO after about 15 really good minutes you have Sheamus fighting with a bad arm against a Bryan who just gained a lot of confidence from pinning Sheamus.

The third fall was probably the best of the 3 falls. Sheamus sold his arm really well and just acted like he had an injured arm. He sold it the whole time and did he little things right, like protecting his arm when Bryan was delivering his kicks. The whole third fall was really exciting. My biggest complaint was that it never seemed like Bryan was in a position where he was about to get the win. That's really my only complaint about amatch that was smartly worked and lacked a boring moment. 
*****1/4 
*


*Aaron Relic and Jay Hatton vs. The Ryback*

Ryback should start doing more squashing but do it while being a bully at the same time. Ryback throws around some tiny indy guys and they act like rag dolls for him. It was fun on TV and served as a break between the two title matches. I have to admit that Ryback's moves look really cool on tiny wrestlers.
*3/4**


_Street Fight for the WWE Championship_
*CM Punk(c) vs. Chris Jericho*

I'm a huge fan of the match they had at Mania but this one just wasn't as good. I really feel that matches with this kind of build up need to be worked more like Orton/Kane from earlier in the night where you just get two guys beating the shit out of each other. I get that Jericho would want to be more methodical but I would have expected more fire from Punk. The match was still good and it had its moments of greatness (Jericho pouring beer over Punk). This had great heal work from Jericho and a decent face performance from Punk. I did enjoy the story with Jericho trying to take the title away from the hometown hero and the Chicago crowd was really responsive to him. I can't complain too much though because they conveyed the hate that was supposed to be there and that's really the most important aspect of a match like this. 
****3/4 *


_Divas Championship Match:_
*Brie(?) Bella(c) vs. Layla*

Layla did a really cool neck breaker. It looked really awesome. That's about all I have to say about the match.
*1/2**


_Extreme Rules:_
*John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar*

I don't think I've ever seen a match like this before and I'm not sure if we ever will. I still can't believe that Lesnar dominated the entire match and literally beat the shit out of Cena. If I try to describe the match it wouldn't do it justice. I don't think I've ever seen someone look like more of a badass than Lesnar. He succeeded in doing something that nobody else has done in a long, make me root for Cena in a match. This is one of Cena's best underdog performances that I've ever sen from him. He sells the beating from Lesnar so well (which probably wasn't very difficult) and I loved how he would only get in small spurts of offense until he finally hit the knockout punch. I can't help be impressed that a match from 2012 is unlike anything I've seen inside the United States before. Make sure you enjoy this match because you're probably won't see WWE have a match like again anytime soon. 
*****1/2 *​

This is a pretty great show. 2 matches above 4*s and 1 really close to that mark. When a show has 3 main events and all deliver you can expect good things. I'm also not sue if it's possible to have a bad show when Bryan, Punk, and Lesnar all have lengthy singles matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of those perfect events. now that's a topic I honestly won't tire too much of whenever someone wants to review it. I even like Ziggler vs Clay & really like Show vs Rhodes. Divas was only two minutes, which was genius, & Ryback squashing is always awesome. Then the four big matches happened...goodness. Perfection.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

FWIW gang you are missing one of the best threads ever a few doors down.


----------



## z_from_kc (Aug 11, 2013)

I got deez DVDS, fa the dirty... holla at yo brethren


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

holla back playa.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

what it do, nephew?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The bitch is back & the bitch is black.

Jazz appreciation thread. She had that...one match that was good. I think. Probably not. Lets go to Nation of Domination. Covering my tracks...


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Theme was pretty cool, actually.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of my favorites. Classic.

It comes on and it's _"you know shit is gonna go down."_


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

The 25 greatest rivalries documentary is on Netflix now so I'm watching it. I know I will disagree with the countdown but still be entertained.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> The 25 greatest rivalries documentary is on Netflix now so I'm watching it. I know I will disagree with the countdown but still be entertained.


Exactly....a few times during that you are like WTF but it is fun.....same with the 50 greatest superstars doc


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Anyone else thought Benoit's role in the Lesnar match on SD was in a reverse and wrong. I mean Benoit was the beast, while Lesnar was the cowering heel. The work in the match was really good though, reminded me some what of the recent Lesnar/Punk match which was awesome and overall MOTY for me.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Not too sure if I watched the 'editted' versions of these matches, but managed to get into them last night anyway;

Swagger/Zayn. Well, like the other comments I've seen on the match, longer finishing sequence than the rest of the match. But I can settle, great fun. Err, ***
Cesaro/Zayn III. Great match, but I'm not sure if that was just 'it'. After all the praise I've seen. Worthy of a ***1/2-***3/4 for sure but any more seems a bit absurd.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Was anything worth watching on SD? Any in Ziggler/Ryback, Orton/Rob(erto), Kofi/Axel or Bryan/Rollins delievered?

EDIT: I've checked it out myself, and well, SD is delievering so far. The Town Hall meeting segment was pretty nice, and Orton/RVD was great (I'd legit give it ***3/4).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't feel like editing again, so my quick thoughts on SD:

- Really enjoyed the Town Hall Meeting segment
- Had fun with Usos/Real Americans, Show/3MB and the Divas clusterfuck but didn't really care
- Orton/RVD: ***3/4 (Much better than the August SD match imo)
- Ziggler/Ryback: **3/4-*** (Really good face in peril story)
- Axel/Kofi: **1/2-**3/4 (Sleeper MOTN)
- Paul Heyman interview (Renee Young :mark was awesome too
- Rollins/Bryan: ***1/2 (A little one-sided but still very good, Rollins is a fucking madman)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*** for Orton/RVD from last night's SD. Orton worked great as a heel here. **1/2 for Rollins/Bryan, too short


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OK, on a rewatch, I went along with the excitement and severely overrated these matches 

Orton/RVD gets ***1/2, Rollins/Bryan *** (too short but still fucking incredible, Rollins' bumps up it at least 1/2*)


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Did you see USos/Cesaro&Swagger from last night? Jey Uso sold Cesaro's uppercutt like a boss


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton/Ziggler from NOC last year isn't that great. Actually it's pretty dull for the majority. ** 1/2 sounds right, they've had better matches on TV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

May watch ex 12 today, its needs a rewatch maybe I'll throw stars in

bryan/rollins was the only memorable match to me last night, but I switched the channel during orton/rvd and kofi/axel, the tag match was kinda meh compared to their pretty good ones on raw last couple of weeks


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

For the 73rd time Best of Raw and Smackdown 2013 has the potential to be a great dvd/blu ray set. 

A year or two from now if Rollins is not one of the top faces in the E I will be surprised.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

watching best of RAW and Smackdown of 2011. Miz/Morrison is just so awesome, I remember watching this live as the first wrestling match I had ever seen(Though I stopped watching a few months later)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm actually about to put that on punk/ziggler and rey/cena :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Re/Cena on Raw was awesome. Wish that had main evented Summerslam. One of the best tv matches I have seen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Smackdown 2003 and Raw 2004 united are the only match I know if I was to place two years combined as far as TV in-ring stuff to 2011 + 2013 united.

All I know out of both years:

- 2011 had Miz/Morrison, Rey/Cena, Punk/Ziggler, Cena/Punk Jan. and after SSlam, Henry/Bryan, Miz & Swagger/Rey & Riley, Orton/Christian I and the Cage, the 12 Man Champions Tag, the entire Kidd/Barreta feud, Kidd, Gabriel & Slater/Usos & Barreta, Kidd/Yoshi, Rey/ADR 2oo3f and San Diego, Edge/Kane LMS, Orton/Kane No DQ, the Raw Rumble, Cena/Miz after ER, Christian/McIntyre, Masters/McIntyre, Orton/Ziggler, Rey/Miz, Beth/Gail and God knows what else.

- 2013 has had Cena/Punk, Bryan/Rollins, Bryan/Cesaro, every single 2-on-2 Shield/Hell No and Shield/Hell No & (insert partner) Tag, Bryan/Orton, Sheamus/Bryan, Cesaro/Zayn, Regal/Ohno, Cesaro/Ziggler, all ADR/Ziggler, Orton/RVD, Orton/Christian, Orton/RVD/Christian, Swagger/Zayn, ADR/Swagger, Sheamus/Barrett, Sheamus/Cesaro, Sheamus/Swagger, Sheamus/Harper, Barrett/Jericho/Miz, Bryan/Christian, Taker/Ambrose, Bryan/Ambrose, the 1st half of both Cena/Ziggler, Cena/ADR, Cesaro/Neville, Jericho/Wyatt, Orton/Rhodes, Sheamus/Sandow, Punk/Jericho, Jericho/Bryan, Punk/Fandango and God knows what else.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2013 has the potential to be the best non-Benoit year when it comes to television matches.

Some more 2011 matches not in ATF's list:



Spoiler: 2011



Punk/Del Rio 11/28
Punk/Del Rio/Mysterio
Orton/Rhodes Street Fight
Orton/Punk RAW in England
Bryan/Barrett
Bryan/Del Rio
Bryan/Sin Cara
Christian/Henry
Sheamus/Henry
Orton/Otunga (Yes, you read that correctly. Randy Orton carried him to a good match)
Christian/Del Rio
Ziggler/Ryder/Bryan/Rhodes
Bryan/Orton/Rhodes/Barrett
Barrett/Orton FCA
Sheamus/Christian 11/11
Bryan/Regal
McIntyre/Morrison
Christian/Bryan 8/26
Morrison/Henry
Orton/Dibiase 8/26
Bryan/McIntyre
McIntyre/Ryder
Bryan/Kidd
Kidd/Dibiase
Morrison/Truth 9/1
Punk/Mysterio
Kidd/Tatsu
McIntyre/Bourne



Pretty surprising how good Drew McIntyre was that year. Man ran Superstars.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I should do research on how would go a three-way between Smackdown 03/Raw 04 vs 2005/2006 vs 2011/2013 in terms of TV in-ring stuff. Now that's quite the match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2003/2004 would easily win that. Benoit is just too damn good. 2000/2001 might have some fun stuff to check out too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, 2003/04 were the Benoit years. Raw 04 and SD 03 by themselves would probably win it for those two years. Hell, I shouldn't even truly leave Raw 03 and SD 04 out of the gate, since those did gave a couple awesome matches (like Christian/RVD Ladder, Shawn/Trips Dec 03, Eddie/Angle 2oo3f and Eddie/JBL Cage). And there was Heat and Velocity too.

And then 2002 is good enough to be by itself tbh. The Smackdown Six + everything Lesnar touched + a bunch of awesome Raw stuff like Taker/Jeff, TLC IV and Eddie/RVD = madness.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not to many matches the past few years better than punk/ziggler nov 11, good lord

Just re watched it, ppv main event quality match right here, you can flip a coin with this and rey/cena as TVMOTY and its not even close. I love the blend of technical wrestling and brawling and was that not the nicest drop kick by ziggler ?

I miss that #heel/ original show-off 2011 character of his, he was so obnoxious, doing head stands, rolling out of the ring for vickie to fix his hair :lol I loved it, I'll take 2011 to the grave with me, loved that year dearly


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Someone told me that Flair/Steamboat from WrestleWar is a ***** match. Do you agree with that? Didn't see the match, but i think that I'm gonna give it a watch tonight


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/Steamboat at Wrestlewar is in contention for greatest match ever.

Punk/Ziggler is my easy choice for 2011 TVMOTY. So many cool little things done by both guys in that match, such as that little standoff in the middle of the ring, Punk using the ropes to try to get a pinfall, Ziggler's headstand, and Punk's busted lip.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> I should do research on how would go a three-way between Smackdown 03/Raw 04 vs 2005/2006 vs 2011/2013 in terms of TV in-ring stuff. Now that's quite the match.


2003/2004 by far. You've got Benoit every week in those two and the quality of his matches never went down. Other than him, there's awesome matches everywhere involving Lesnar, Taker, Evolution, Eddie, Shelton, HBK and so on.

This also makes me think, the brand extension had its bad parts. How many great feuds were we screwed out of because of the brand extension? Jericho vs Brock, Eddie vs HHH, Jericho vs Eddie (it happened in the AE but imagine them when Eddie was truly on his game), Brock vs Evolution and so on. Only Benoit really benefited during that period as he spent a lot of time on both rosters and therefore, got to work with pretty much everyone... except the Undertaker. (FUCK)


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

The first 11 episodes that will be included on the Raw 20th Anniversary set have been revealed:

· January 11, 1993 – First Ever Raw
- Yokozuna vs. Koko B. Ware
- The Steiner Bros. vs. The Executioners
- Shawn Michaels vs. Max Moon (Intercontinental Title)
- The Undertaker vs. Damien Demento​· February 24, 1997 – The Original ECW Invasion
- The New Blackjacks vs. The Godwinns
- Steve Richards vs. Little Guido
- Marlena vs. Sunny (arm wrestling contest)
- Goldust vs. Savio Vega
- Taz vs. Mikey Whipwreck
- The Legion of Doom vs. The Headbangers
- Tommy Dreamer vs. D-Von Dudley
- The Undertaker vs. Farooq​· April 13, 1998 – Dude Love Interrupts Stone Cold vs. Mr. McMahon
- Skull & 8-Ball vs. Savio Vega & Jose Estrada
- Taka Michinoku vs. Jeff Jarrett
- Ken Shamrock & Steve Blackman vs. Bob Holly & Bart Gunn
- Owen Hart vs. Billy Gunn
- Stone Cold vs. Mr. McMahon (WWF Championship)​· April 27, 1998 – DX Invades WCW
- Ken Shamrock & Owen Hart vs. The Nation
- The Headbangers vs. Too Cold Scorpio & Terry Funk
- Bradshaw vs. Jeff Jarrett
- The Disciples of the Apocalypse vs. The New Age Outlaws
- Undertaker vs. Barry Windham
- Stone Cold vs. The Artist Formerly Known as Goldust (WWF Championship)​· January 4, 1999 – Mankind Wins First Championship
- Ken Shamrock vs. Steve Blackman
- Goldust vs. Mark Henry
- Godfather vs. Test
- Triple H vs. Mankind (special referee: Shane McMahon)
- Edge vs. D-Lo Brown
- Kane vs. Pat Patterson & Gerald Briscoe
- Road Dogg vs. Al Snow (Hardcore Championship)
- The Rock vs. Mankind (WWF Championship)​· May 10, 1999 – Highest Rated Raw Ever
- Billy Gunn vs. Kane
- Big Show vs. Paul Bearer
- Debra vs. Sable (Bra And Panties Match)
- Big Bossman vs. Test (Nightstick Match)
- Cactus Jack vs. Viscera & Mideon (Hardcore Match)
- Bradshaw vs. Farooq (Lumberjack Match)
- Pat Patterson & Gerald Briscoe vs. The Mean Street Posse
- Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis
- Ken Shamrock vs. Chyna
- Stone Cold, The Rock, Vince McMahon vs. Undertaker, Triple H, Shane McMahon (special referee: Shawn Michaels)​· March 26, 2001 – The Raw & Nitro Simulcast and the go-home show to WrestleMania X-7
- Tazz vs. Val Venis (Lumberjack Match)
- William Regal vs. Crash Holly
- Hardys/Benoit vs. Edge/Christian/Angle
- X-Pac vs. Test (Special Referee: Eddie Guerrero)
- Big Show vs. Jericho
- Austin & Rock vs. Kane & Taker​· November 24, 2003 – RAW Roulette
- Victoria vs. Lita (Steel Cage Match)
- Randy Orton vs. Sgt. Slaughter
- Bubba Ray Dudley & Lance Cade vs. Christian & Matt Hardy
- Goldberg vs. Triple H (World Heavyweight Championship)
- Mark Henry vs. Booker T (Salt Lake City Street Fight)
- Scott Steiner & Test vs. RVD (Singapore Cane Handicap Match)
- Trish Stratus vs. Jackie Gayda (Bra & Panties Match)
- Chris Jericho & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & Ric Flair (Bischoff's Choice Match)​· October 3, 2005 – RAW Homecoming
- Shawn Michaels vs. Kurt Angle (30 Minute Iron Man Match)
- Edge vs. Matt Hardy (Loser Leaves RAW Ladder Match)
- Ric Flair & Triple H vs. Carlito & Chris Masters
- Ashley & Trish vs. Candice, Torrie, and Victoria (Bra And Panties Match)
- John Cena vs. Eric Bischoff (WWE Title Match)​· December 10, 2007 – RAW 15th Anniversary
- Jeff Hardy vs. Carlito (Intercontinental Title Ladder Match)
- RVD vs. Santino
- Batista/Triple H/Flair vs. Orton/Edge/Umaga
- Hornswoggle vs. The Great Khali (Hulk Hogan Returns)
- Cody Rhodes/Hardcore Holly vs. Lance Cage/Trevor Murdoch
- Mr. Kennedy vs. Marty Jannetty
- Mr. McMahon reveals the Greatest Superstar in RAW History​· January 4, 2010 – Bret Hart Returns
- Bret Hart Returns/Shawn Michaels Confrontation
- Maryse vs. Brie Bella
- MVP vs. Jack Swagger vs. Mark Henry vs. Carlito
- Triple H and Shawn Michaels vs. JeriShow
- Sheamus vs. Evan Bourne
- Randy Orton vs. Kofi Kingston
- Vince McMahon calls out Bret Hart​The descriptions on various retailers also list "Mania after WrestleMania" and "WrestleMania Rewind" along with a CM Punk vs. Matt Hardy match, so there's that too.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Daniel Bryan vs Chris Jericho from NXT debut episode is just a mindblowing match, ***3/4. I remember that being Bryan's episode, he was just fantastic. It was good to see a rookie Daniel Bryan giving a veteran like Jericho quite the scare


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

That Raw set looks promising, but however my favorite compilation dvd has to be the Raw 15th anniversary one. Just so many fantastic matches, definitely would recommend.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

No RAW episodes from the year 2000 on the set? :cuss

I'm expecting NoC to be a good PPV as far as match quality goes. Bryan and Orton don't seem to have the greatest chemistry, but their matches aren't bad. Ditto for RVD and Del Rio. Ambrose vs. Ziggler should be pretty good, it looks like they're going to go with a multi tag-team match, three of the four divas in the Diva's Championship match are competent, and Punk vs. Axel should at least be decent.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Going through the Shield six man tag matches now just for the fun of it (and I'm really fucking hungover, it's terrible. Was dropping wrestling references like wildfire all last night and it got ridiculous... I mean like, I was making EVERY kind of reference you can think of... That's how you get the bitches, am I right or am I right? ) and I'm noticing a recurring theme in all of them; Reigns actually never gets his ass handed to him.. EVER. Rollins and Ambrose though, they take some crazy ass fucking beats at the hands of guys like Sheamus who just clobbers the shit out of them.

ALSO; The Team Hell No/Kingston match against The Shield was REALLY FUCKING GREAT, but I still think that the original TLC bout & the Elimination Chamber bouts are better at this point in time. They don't work anything less than GREAT bouts though (I'm only at May 20th now so we'll see if they can fuck up) and I'm excited to see the matches that I've missed so far.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Best of RAW and Smackdown 2011 review ​*
*Disc one​*
*Match # 1: The Miz vs John Morison- falls count anywhere match for the WWE title(RAW 1/03)*

This is most likely my favorite match from both men, I watched it live and It is just as awesome as I remember. So many awesome spots by Morrison, such as jumping off of the giant WWE logo and trying to put Miz through the table by using starship pain,. Just an all-around epic match, some will say that this was a carry job by Morrison by I don’t think that’s the case, Miz did some decent in ring work but Morrison pulled out possibly the match of his career here. **** ½* 

*Match # 2: Kofi Kingston vs Dolph Ziggler- singles match for the IC title(SD 1/07)*

Decent match, I liked the pace of it. He match was very fast paced because these guys seem to face each other a lot so they seem to have good chemistry together. I thought this match could of used a lot less Vickie Gurrero but besides that it was a decent match. I wish we had title matches on TV nowadays . ***

*Match # 3: Alberto Del Rio vs Rey Mysterio- 2/3 falls match( SD 1/07)*

decent match, but I thought if they had made Mysterio look a little stronger that the match would have worked better. I thought this match was a little boring most of the time TBH, it just didn’t have the energy I was expecting out of these two. However, it was still a decent match, I really liked the 2/3 falls situation as it let the match go on longer without it seeming like it was dragging on. ***

*Match # 4: Melina vs Natalya-singles match ( RAW 1/24)*

Kind of a standard divas match, the action was pretty bland most of the match. The match was also very short, even for TV divas match. I really liked the ending though, Natalya locked in a very painful looking sharpshooter to get the win over Melina. **

*Match # 5: Daniel Bryan vs The Miz- singles match(RAW 2/14) *

Pretty good match, I like these guys in the ring and this was a rematch from their NOC match that gave DB the US title that he was currently holding. Alex Riley is on commentary aand he is really good, I think he is doing NXT commentary, perhaps he will get called up to do Main Event or Smackdown. *** ½*

*match# 6: Christian vs ADR- steel cage match (SD 3/18)*

Really solid match, this was the prelude to a decent Edge vs ADR match at WM hat would be Edge’s last match. There was some good back and forth action that kept me from getting to bored. The steel cage always seems to make a match more fun. Cole on commentary was bad as I absolutely hated his heel character. But besides that it was good. Really liked the ending where they were both dangling from the outside and Christian managed to get down off the cage for the win. *** ¾*

*Match # 7: Kofi Kingston vs Wade Barrett- singles match for the IC title( SD 3/25) *

This was during the disastrous team that was the corre. This was such a bad idea as it was basically a nexus knockoff. This match was pretty meh. It was pretty short and it did not seem like the crowd was into it at all. Barrett won cleanly which was confusing since he was a heel and he had 3 other people at ringside. Kofi had just won the IC title a couple of months ago and he doesn’t even make it to disc 2 of this set :lol. OK match, but it should have gotten more time . ** ½*


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Holy shit the The Undertaker WWF/E Collection from XWT (new upload) looks awesome. Here's the match-list:



Spoiler: Match List



1. Undertaker vs Batista vs MVP vs Finlay vs The Great Khali vs Big Daddy V - Elimination Chamber Match - No Way Out 2008 

2. Undertaker vs Big Show - Steel Cage Match - Smackdown 05.12.2008 

3. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (In Your House 15 1997 WWF Championship) 

4. The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart (SummerSlam 1997 WWF Championship, Shawn Michaels as special guest referee) 

5. The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (Bad Blood 1997 Hell in a Cell match) 

6. Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker (Royal Rumble 1998 Casket match, WWF Championship) 

7. The Undertaker vs. Kane (WrestleMania XIV 1998) 

8. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (King of the Ring 1998 Hell in a Cell match) 

9. The Rock vs Chris Benoit vs The Undertaker vs Kane (Unforgiven 2000 Fatal Four-Way match, WWF Championship) 

10. Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker (No Way Out 2006 World Heavyweight Championship) 

11. The Undertaker vs. Mankind (SummerSlam 1996, Boiler Room Brawl) 

12. The Undertaker vs Edge (SummerSlam 2008 Hell in a Cell match) 

13. Edge vs The Undertaker (One Night Stand 2008 Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match for the vacant World Heavyweight Championship) 

14. Batista vs The Undertaker (WrestleMania 23 2007 World Heavyweight Championship) 

15. Brock Lesnar vs The Undertaker (No Mercy 2002, Hell in a Cell match, WWE Championship) 

16. The Undertaker vs Randy Orton (Armageddon 2005 Hell in a Cell match) 

17. The Undertaker vs The Fake Undertaker - Summerslam 1994 

18. Kane and The Undertaker vs Dudley Boyz - Tables Match - Raw 2001 

19. The Undertaker vs Triple H - No Holds Barred - WrestleMania 27 

20. The Brothers of Destruction vs Kronik - WCW Tag Team Championship - Unforgiven 2001 

21. The Undertaker and Kane vs Christian and Edge - No Dq - WWE Tag Team Championship - SmackDown 2001 

22. Batista & The Undertaker vs Randy Orton & Edge - SmackDown 2007 

23. John Cena vs. The Undertaker - Vengeance 2003 

24. The Undertaker vs. Big Show & A-Train - Handicap 2 - 1 Match - Wrestlemania 19 

25. Triple H vs The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell Match - Shawn Michaels Special Referee - Wrestlemania 28 

26. The Undertaker vs Booker T - Judgment Day 2004 

27. The Undertaker vs JBL - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2004 

28. The Undertaker vs Heidenreich - Survivor Series 2004 

29. The Undertaker vs Ric Flair - No Dq - WrestleMania X-8 

30. The Undertaker vs Hollywood Hulk Hogan - WWE Undisputed Championship - Judgment Day 2002 

31. The Undertaker vs Test - Summerslam 2002 

32. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Undertaker - Special Referee Ric Flair - #1 Contender Match - Backlash 2002 

33. The Undertaker vs Heidenreich - Casket Match - Royal Rumble 2005 

34. Booker T vs The Undertaker - No Mercy 2001 

35. Kane vs The Undertaker - WrestleMania XX 

36. The Undertaker vs Mark Henry - Unforgiven 2007 

37. Edge vs Undertaker - World Heavyweight Championship - WrestleMania 24 

38. Kane & Undertaker vs DDP & Kanyon - Steel Cage - WWF vs WCW - Tag Team Championship - Summerslam 2001 

39. The Undertaker vs Triple H - WrestleMania 17 

40. The Undertaker vs Mark Henry - Casket Match - WrestleMania 22 

41. The Undertaker vs Batista - Last Man Standing - World Heavyweight Championship - Backlash 2007 

42. The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio - World Heavyweight Championship - Royal Rumble 2010 

43. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels - Streak vs Career - No Dq - WrestleMania 26 

44. Undertaker vs Edge - World Heavyweight Championship - Backlash 2008 

45. Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker - Fully Loaded 2000 

46. Big Show vs Undertaker - Casket Match - Survivor Series 2008 

47. The Undertaker vs Rob Van Dam - Hardcore Championship - Vengeance 2001 

48. Batista vs CM Punk vs The Undertaker vs Rey Mysterio - World Heavyweight Championship - Bragging Rights 2009 

49. CM Punk vs The Undertaker - Hell In A Cell - World Heavyweight Championship - Hell In A Cell 2009 

50. The Undertaker vs Chris Jericho vs Big Show - World Heavyweight Championship - Survivor Series 2009 

51. Undertaker vs Batista - Chairs Match - World Heavyweight Championship - TLC 2009 

52. Kane vs The Undertaker - No Holds Barred - World Heavyweight Championship - Night of Champions 2010 

53. The Undertaker vs Big Show - No Way Out 2003 

54. Randy Orton vs The Undertaker - Legend Killer vs Legend - WrestleMania 21 

55. Mr. Kennedy vs The Undertaker - Last Ride Match - Armageddon 2006 

56. The Undertaker vs Big Show - Punjabi Prison - The Great American Bash 2006 

57. Big Show vs The Undertaker - Last Man Standing - Cyber Sunday 2008 

58. WWE Smackdown 2002-08-29 - Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit vs. Kurt Angle (No. 1 Contender Triple Threat Match) 

59. The Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania XXV 2009) 

60. Undertaker vs Triple H & Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWF Championship Handicap Match - Insurrextion 2001 

61. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Undertaker - No Holds Barred - WWF Championship - Judgment Day 2001 

62. Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian vs Kane & Undertaker - Tables Match - Tag Team Championship - No Way Out 2001 

63. Chris Benoit vs Undertaker - Rebellion 2000 

64. Undertaker vs Kurt Angle - WWF Championship - Survivor Series 2000 

65. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs The Undertaker - ''End Of An Era'' First Blood - WWF Championship - Fully Loaded 1999 

66. Ken Shamrock vs The Undertaker - Backlash 1999 

67. The Undertaker vs The Rock - WWF Championship - King Of The Ring 1999 

68. The Undertaker vs Stone Cold Steve Austin - WWF Championship - Special Referees Vince & Shane McMahon - Over The Edge 1999 

69. The Undertaker & Big Show vs X-Pac & Kane - Tag Team Championship - Summerslam 1999 

70. The Undertaker vs Kane - Inferno Match - Unforgiven 1998 

71. The Undertaker & Steve Austin vs Kane & Mankind - WWF Tag Team Championship - Fully Loaded 1998 

72. The Undertaker vs Kane (For The Vacant WWF Championship With Stone Cold Steve Austin As Special Guest Referee,Judgment Day 1998) 

73. Steve Austin vs The Undertaker - WWF Championship - Summerslam 1998 

74. Kane vs The Undertaker - WWF Championship Quarter Finals - Survivor Series 1998 

75. The Undertaker vs CM Punk - WrestleMania 29 

76. The Undertaker vs Mankind - WWF Championship - In Your House 14 Revenge of the 'Taker 

77. The Undertaker vs Vader - WWF Championship - In Your House 16 Canadian Stampede 

78. Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - In Your House 17 Ground Zero 

79. Sycho Sid vs The Undertaker - No Dq - WWF Championship - WrestleMania 13 

80. Mankind vs The Undertaker - Survivor Series 1996 

81. 2005.09.16 - Randy Orton vs. The Undertaker (SmackDown!) 

82. 2006.08.18 - The Undertaker vs. The Great Khali (SmackDown!, Last Man Standing match) 

83. 2010.10.09 - CM Punk vs. The Undertaker (SmackDown!) 

84. 2002.07.01 - The Undertaker vs. Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match, WWE Undisputed Championship) 

85. The Undertaker vs Dean Ambrose - SmackDown 26.4.13 

86. Batista vs The Undertaker - Steel Cage - World Heavyweight Championship - SmackDown 11.5.07 

87. 01. WWE - Undertaker vs Booker T - Smackdown - June3-04 

88. 02. WWE - Undertaker vs John Cena - Smackdown - June24-04 

89. 08. WWE - Undertaker vs Heidenreich - Smackdown Christmas in Iraq - Dec23-04 

90. Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker - WWE Championship - SmackDown 4.7.02


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No need in getting the Undertaker set as I have most of those matches already, haha. Looks sweet for those who don't.

----------------

RAW set looks sort of whatever. Feels like I own a lot of it too. I want to own the 15th anniversary set just b/c when Rhodes & Holly win the tag championship, Dusty - who was on commentary - flips out and it's absolutely hilarious.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> 26. The Undertaker vs Booker T - Judgment Day 2004


Anyone have any ratings for this one? Can't remember it myself.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kofi/hell no vs/ shield and I guess punk/taker are probably the ONLY two match this year I don't get the praise for. I need to watch that tag again and I have watched that hell-no/shield tag title match yet


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Anyone have any ratings for this one? Can't remember it myself.


I remember it being pretty bad, which was sort of a theme of Undertaker's 2004 matches in general.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's really average. I still have fun with it b/c Undertaker just reverted back to the Deadman stuff & Booker's tactics of using voodoo to try and "over power" Taker is hilarious goofy storytelling. There's a gnarly tombstone at the end. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> kofi/hell no vs/ shield and I guess punk/taker are probably the ONLY two match this year I don't get the praise for. I need to watch that tag again and I have watched that hell-no/shield tag title match yet


Well, to each their own. Personally, both matches tell an incredible story. Especially Punk/Taker, which atm is STILL my favourite MOTY over even Punk/Lesnar. The Kofi & HN/Shield Tag is the traditional Tag formula worked to near perfection.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

btw



> The Next Uplaod Pack - Christian Cage TNA-WWF/E Collection


:mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I need to watch that tag again


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Taker's 2004 didn't really live up to standards, aside from the TV MOTY match with Cena, which I consider that myself for SD exclusively. Although, I liked the SS match with JBL and the other with Hiendenreich too. However, I think the downfalls with his 2004 can be forgiven due to him not appearing on TV as much as his previous gimmick allowed, conserving of the deadman aura and mystique is one of the key components to keeping it fresh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, I'm a huge advocate of the Shield vs Hell No _(& Kofi)_ tag. All the characters roles were fleshed out to epic proportions.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah, I'm a huge advocate of the Shield vs Hell No _(& Kofi)_ tag. All the characters roles were fleshed out to epic proportions.


Even Kofi Kingston (otherwise known as the modern day Tito Santana)?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even Kofi did his job to absolute perfection tbh. He didn't go overkill with his sloppy airstrike stuff and actually cared about adding something.

Fuck me, in my 2013 list, I didn't even mention the Sheamus/Ziggler, Orton/Cesaro, Jericho/RVD, Shield/Tons Of Funk, Sheamus/ADR and Punk/Ryback TLC matches. And not even the original MOTYC of 2013 - ADR/Show LMS. Silly me for forgetting, silly 2013 list for being so Goddamn huge.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

God fucking dammit, WWE. Yet again you've managed to fuck up another potentially GOAT release. Urgh. Hopefully the other 9 episodes not yet named will convince me to get it (just the 01 simulcast ep ain't enough lol).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Even Kofi Kingston (otherwise known as the modern day Tito Santana)?


lolz of course not. He has no character to enhance. He just got beatdown and did his two springboard moves on the tag prior so he didn't damage the match. Only got to be there for The Shield to work out a fabulous beatdown like all he's good for. The other five shined and he was there along for the ride. It's no different than the other pimped Kofi match from this year vs Cesaro - a complete one match show with Kofi having nothing to do with it.

Tito deserves better than to be group with this joke.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont think that low of Tito Santana :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just picked up greatest stars from the 90s for 5 bucks. Steal? Or did I waste my money?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fun set.

Vader vs Michaels, Vader vs Sting Slamboree '94, Mankind vs Helmsley Cage, Blaze vs Nakano, Sting vs Bret Havoc '98, etc.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Awesome, gonna pop it in soon


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just watched Angle/Taker from No Way Out 2006. I hadn't seen it in years but it's still great and I have it at ****1/4. The finishing sequence in truly amazing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I kinda wanna rewatch Kofi/Ambrose @ ER to see if it holds to the *** I had given it.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Brad Maddox just announced Orton/Goldust for Raw on twitter :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kofi/hellno vs. shield was pretty good, I'm really shock how much time it got. I liked this one but I'll still say the original tlc and the ec 13 match are better. There one with cena that I really like as well


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raging Eboue said:


> Brad Maddox just announced Orton/*Goldust *for Raw on twitter :mark:


I markame. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Raging Eboue said:


> Brad Maddox just announced Orton/Goldust for Raw on twitter :mark:


Really? Well, that's great news!

Looks like it's time for another electrocution, Dustin.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

STUTTERING GOLDUST GIMMICK RETURNING WOULD BE :mark:.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I know that Goldie will handle the family business.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Orton/Goldust? Ew. Fuck, and I have to watch that live.

Piss break confirmed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

We'd best not get another Dusty/Orton match out of this. Unless Orton buries the shit out of him in like 2 minutes .

Dustin/Orton needs at least 10 minutes though. Hmmmm... or maybe just about 10 minutes. Nice little sprint might be best tbh.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Goldust or Cody dressed as Goldust?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Orton/Goldust? Ew. Fuck, and I have to watch that live.
> 
> Piss break confirmed.


:lmao

Sad.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> :lmao
> 
> Sad.


:draper2


MachoMadness1988 said:


> Goldust or Cody dressed as Goldust?


Nah I think Cody is legit getting ready for his wedding


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hooray for Goldy! Can't wait for this.

I obviously don't think Kofi is anywhere near Tito in anything. I just want a conversation about him started.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

In all honest Ive heard he is great in ring so I'll be pleased to see, but I have NEVER seen a goldust match EVER, actually just one 96 hbk raw match that it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> In all honest Ive heard he is great in ring so I'll be pleased to see, but I have NEVER seen a goldust match EVER, actually just one 96 hbk raw match that it


You've been missing a lot, bud.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Goldust is one of my favorite characters in wrestling history. So unorthodox and just a mind fuck. I loved it. Dustin is also damn good in the ring I thought.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> You've been missing a lot, bud.


yea man, I should hop on it, I have a couple crazy wrestling things Ive yet to see 

Never seen any rock/austin or foley/taker HIAC


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> yea man, I should hop on it, I have a couple crazy wrestling things Ive yet to see
> 
> Never seen any *rock/austin* or foley/taker HIAC


Damn you must check out their WM 17 and 19 matches. 15 is just an ordinary brawl and the least effective of their Mania matches. The Backlash 99 match made up for Mania, thankfully. Also led to Rock's face turn. I think they also wrestled in 2002, maybe at Backlash or something.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Damn you must check out their WM 17 and 19 matches. 15 is just an ordinary brawl and the least effective of their Mania matches. The Backlash 99 match made up for Mania, thankfully. Also led to Rock's face turn. I think they also wrestled in 2002, maybe at Backlash or something.


 They never had a match in 2002. They had another match in 2001, at Rebellion. Although their steel cage match was better. They also had another fun match in late 1997.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh, yeah that was Austin/Taker at Backlash 2002. Don't remember it being much.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at your new name IWW, yea Ive heard good things about the two manias


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Keeping myself cloaked in Triple H.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rock V Austin III is a beautiful match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Goldust getting a match with the WWE Champ is the highlight of my year other than Mark Henry getting a match with the WWE Champ for the actual WWE Championship. I'm betting Goldust outperforms 90% of the roster, too.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock/Austin always delivered great matches when they were in a match together, just like Punk/Cena


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rock/Austin always delivered great matches when they were in a match together, just like Punk/Cena


Yep. Except for WM 15. And Rebellion 01. And probably some crappy pre-99 TV matches too .

BL 99, WM 17 and WM 19 are pretty much it for them. Cage on Raw in 01 I don't remember being GOOD but was fun and had the nice big shocking finish/angle at the end.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

DOPESICK REVIEWS RAW IS WAR

October 6th 1997
​
Raw opens with the devastating news of Brian Pillman's death. Vince McMahon is in the ring and addresses the incident to the crowd. The entire roster is on the stage and the bell tolls ten times. Tears are shed and 'PILLMAN!' chants echo around the arena, even if some meatheaded shitsacks tried to ruin the silence.

WE ARE LIIIIIIIIIIVE from...well, I don't know, the fucking graphic doesn't show up. Oh, we're in Kansas City at the Kemper Arena, thanks Vince! Shawn Michaels is up first with cronies HHH, Chyna and Rick Rude in tow...ooops Rude isn't here. Michael Cole in the ring hosting the segment. Michaels has sixteen stitches after the HELLACIOUS HIAC match last night. They open by giving Michael Cole his 'initiation' - a giant wedgie. He goes WAAAAY up in the air. This is hilarious! Poor old Cole got so much stick back in his early days, no wonder he turned into a conceited asshole. Michaels bigs himself up naturally and proclaims himself to be the best yadda yadda yadda. He's the icon and the main event. The best in the business. He wants the crowd to call him the icon, and he's the icon 'that can still go'. Triple H vouches for his friend's proclamations, then goes on to perform a colossal amount of ass licking. They look at the Titantron for highlights of last night's match, but the video feed doesn't work. HBK and co. stand in the ring baffled, and HBK tells Vince McMahon to get this shit sorted out. All of a sudden, a video airs on the Tron but it ain't the HIAC match, but grainy footage with four guys in a steel cage all having a good time. Ooooh it's HBK, Helmsley, Diesel and Razor Ramon. It's the infamous Cliq curtain call house show segment which got HHH in the dog house. Oh hey, there's Rude! McMahon: 'We don't have time for this crap'. Yoiks! HBK and HHH mock and laugh Vinnie Mac as the segment cuts out to a HIAC video package...

...when we're back from the video, HBK is STILL going. Jeez, his interviews lasted for TOO long. Hart Foundation is out much to HBK/HHHs chagrin (although once again they never sell it, the no-good shits). They continue to laugh at Bret's notions that they're 'the lowest scum on this earth', and Bret calls them 'degenerates'. In a crazy act, Bret: 'I know what the HHH stands for! It stands for ****! You're both homos! You've barebacked your way to titles!' Holy shit! The hatred between these three guys was immense. Bret says he ran HBKs 'boyfriends' Razor Ramon and Diesel out of the WWF, and then he challenges Triple H to a match. Afterwards, HBK once again just CAN'T STOP TALKING. Shut up already, we've gone nearly twenty fucking minutes! 'The Clique will rule the WWF we own the business!' BLAH BLAH BLAH. 

UP NEXT: It's a Lumberjack Match between The Headbangers and the NEW WWF Tag Team Champions The Godwinns!

LUMBERJACK MATCH: The Headbangers vs. The Godwinns (c) (with Uncle Cletus)
Stills shown of The Godwinns' victory last night at Badd Blood. I always had a soft spot for these hillbillies. Huge 'LOD!' chants. Thrasher decides to crowd surf on the lumberjacks. Standard lumberjack affair with the faces beating up on the heels and vice versa. Godwinns get the advantage, but the Legion Of Doom jump in the ring and waffle them with their own buckets. The whole ring is full of bodies, but the match continues for some reason. Thrasher rolls up Phineas for the pinful victory.

Still to come, Melanie Pillman will be interviewed by Vince McMahon. Jim Cornette is shown having a mic set up on his suit. More on that later!

Los Boricuas are shown EARLIER TODAY, with Miguel doing the talking. I hear the words 'Marc Mero', so I guess he's making his return tonight.

MARC MERO (with Sable) vs. MIGUEL PEREZ
Sable gets most of the cheers for obvious reasons. Mero has a new haircut, new ring attire, new music and new attitude. Lawler says that his haircut is backwards, even if it's a thousand times better than the mullet he had before. Mero gets Miguel up in a torture rack position, and we see the TKO for the first time. Marvellous! (heh) Mero gets the duke 1-2-3.

Jim Cornette promo time! Cornette talks at a million miles an hour about true talents like Arn Anderson and Mick Foley. He trashes the nWo and their childish attitudes. Calls Kevin Nash the 'biggest no-talent in the business'. Absolutely SHITS all over him. He does the same with Scott Hall, but not as harsh, and then Syxx...or Sean Waltman. 'The only guy to get released from a valid contract to go to a rival company which just shows how valuable he is' Ouch! He then badmouths Eric Bischoff and his spending ways. Need more spotlight on the true talents like Flair, Anderson and Foley, rather than guys who suck up their boss. Preach on Jimbo!

BRITISH BULLDOG (with Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart and Bret Hart) vs. ROCKY MIAVIA (with the Nation)
Wow, ANOTHER heel vs. heel confrontation. Rocky was still incredibly green at this point and a few months away from The Rock that we all know. Both factions are at ringside and unbelievably they don't get involved. Bulldog sets up for the running powerslam and he hits it, and bah gawd we have a clean victory! Afterwards, Faarooq jumps in with his leather strap. Yeah, a leather strap will do loads of damage to guys wearing leather jackets! All eight men have a wild brawl until Slaughter and a battalion of refs run in to break it up.

UP NEXT: STOOOOONE COOOOOOLD STEEEEEEEVE AAAAAUSTIIIIIN!

And HERE HE IS. Massive pop once again for the rattlesnake. Vince McMahon is in the ring once again, hoping that Austin has made the right decision pertaining to last week's segment. Austin says he attacked Faarooq last night because he wanted to, and he does what he wants. McMahon unveils a contract - or release form - that can reinstate Austin to in-ring action, with the WWF holding no responsibility over what happens to Austin. Austin says he'd be the dumbest SOB in the WWF to sign the contract, and instead wants a contract to get Owen Hart. Vince says he can have Owen Hart for the IC title if he signs the form. Vince goes to shake Austin's hand, but he lowers it 'put your little hand in your pocket...or wipe your ass with it!' All of a sudden, Faarooq EXPLODES onto the Titantron with an almighty tirade. 'YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TOUGH IS' etc. The tirade is thick and fast and goes on for almost a minute, and Austin responds with 'shut up!' It's the way he says it, it's hilarious. Austin says he'll take on all four members if he has to.

OWEN HART (c) vs. ROAD WARRIOR HAWK
Hawk in singles competition in 1997 is NOT good. Enziguiri gives Owen a quick advantage, and then The Godwinns show up at ringside. Hawk overpowers Owen, but gets nailed in the back with a steel bucket. Animal runs down and he waylays on the hapless hog farmers. Hawk hits a top rope clothesline, but gets nailed by Henry Godwinn with the horseshoe and Owen Hart picks up the win. 

UP NEXT: Melanie Pillman will get interviewed by Vince McMahon via videofeed in Walton, Kentucky.

Melanie Pillman is on the screen sitting in her home, and Vince asks some dodgy questions. Why they needed to ask this woman these type of questions just over a day after her husband's death is beyond me. Instead of talking about Pillman's excellent career, Vince dwells over the use of drugs and the use of drugs in wrestling, and then brings the poor gal to tears. Classy Vince, real classy. 'Do you know what you as a single parent will do to raise your five children?' Jeez, why don't you just scream 'YOUR HUSBAND IS DEAD HAHAHA' and get it over with. This was pretty pathetic and Vince McMahon should be ashamed of himself. WHY did this happen? Afterwards, a video tribute of Pillman is shown, narrated by Jim Ross. They redeemed themselves slightly with this.

Vince McMahon has disappeared. Jim Ross says 'The Hardy Boys' are in the ring - bah gawd, it's Matt and Jeff in all their jobber glory. They're set to face The Truth Commission, but the lights go out. IT'S KAAAAAAAAANE. We first saw Kane last night at Badd Blood. Kane destroys the young Hardy brothers with a double chokeslam, Kane then throws Jeff Hardy onto Matt on the outside. Paul Bearer gets on the mic. 'LAUGH AT THE FAT MAN!' never gets old. Such an awesome heel. He delivers a promo saying that 'your hero' The Undertaker should be the one you laugh at. Camera pans in on Kane's face REAL close. The twenty years of suffering are all over. Sign: 'CAIN LIVES DEAD MAN' D'oh! Paul Bearer says that Kane will destroy the entire roster until Undertaker shows his face again. 'WELCOME...TO YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE!' Excellent promo. Sixteen years later and Kane is still with us!

TRIPLE H (with Chyna) vs. BRET HART (c)
Shawn Michaels shows up at ringside, and then he picks his nose with the Canadian flag that Bret brought with him to ringside. Triple H gains the upper hand as Bulldog, Neidhart and Owen show up to try and stop the shenanigans. Side suplex by Bret, clothesline and backbreaker. HHH counters with a DDT for two. Bret Hart tries to put the ringpost figure four on HHH, but Chyna attacks him. Bret blocks a right hand, but then HBK hits the SCM on Bret Hart, laying him out. Referee counts to ten and Triple H wins by countout. Interesting note: HHH was supposed to beat Bret Hart by pinfall, but 'The Hitman' was having none of it. Lawler also comments on how we all missed Rick Rude nailing Davey Boy with the briefcase. The cocky, arrogant heels ride off into the sunset. It's going to be a bumpy few weeks! Damn, it was all heels on this show!

SEE YOU NEXT TIME!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Bret /Owen is on now in this best of the 90s match set :mark:

Loving this DVD so far, what a steal for 5 bucks


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Guys, would you like the Main-Event of this year HiaC to be a Three-Way Match between Bryan/Lesnar/HHH? Lesnar would be from Heyman's side, to try and stop the HHH's Corporation Era, Bryan would obviously fight for himself and HHH for his Empire. On the paper it seems like a potential MOTY candidate and with Lesnar and Bryan in a ring, you just can't expect any less


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No, if Lesnar would come back and fight the Corporation, I'd much rather he goes one on one against Orton or something like that. Alternatively, remain heel and face Bryan. Preferably in a bigger PPV too.


----------



## The Cult (Jul 21, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Guys, would you like the Main-Event of this year HiaC to be a Three-Way Match between Bryan/Lesnar/HHH? Lesnar would be from Heyman's side, to try and stop the HHH's Corporation Era, Bryan would obviously fight for himself and HHH for his Empire. On the paper it seems like a potential MOTY candidate and with Lesnar and Bryan in a ring, you just can't expect any less


Would be an awesome match, however I find it very unlikely. I'm guessing we're gonna get Bryan/Orton in a cell or maybe Punk/Lesnar.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Or Punk/Orton if Bryan goes after HHH and Lesnar doesn't ahow up. It would be interesting to see what happens at Battleground, anyway


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Three ways blow. Plus Lesnar fighting against the new Helmsley regime would make him seem like a babyface (like he did in their cage match 8*D). I'd rather Trip not even wrestle any more. I know that sounds like I just don;t want to see his work any more and that's part of it, but he's in the boss role now. The boss who gets others to do his dirty work. What's more scummy than beating someone to a pulp for selfish reasons? Letting someone else (Orton) beat someone to a pulp for selfish reasons while pointing and laughing. And three ways BLOW. Kills any dream match aura surrounding a potentially great singles match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I will call my shot. Main event of Hell in a Cell is...

Orton v Bryan v Punk in the cell. 

I will probably be wrong.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched NOC 2011. Pretty good show, although it's too bad about that main event. It was ok at best for the fourteen minutes till the clusterfuck. Aka Punk was good while Triple H was his generic gimmick match self. Then it goes into a straight up WCW/TNA finish. Only not one of those fun ones. Nine minutes of fuckery and interference that just left people confused. lmao it is so terrible.

MOTN is tough, but it could be Henry vs Orton. I really did like Rhodes vs Dibiase _(why does this get no love?)_ & the four way. Cena vs Del Rio was good, but they've had WAY better on TV + Vengeance 2011.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Just had a conversation on another forum that some guy said Edge was better than Cena, and I said how did he get to this conclusion and I gave him some match up comparisons, also said Edge has never had a great non gimmick match besides w/ Undertaker at WM24, and he just completely wrote off my opinion haha


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've had a lot more fun watching Edge in the ring (DAT 2002-2004), but when he moved to the main event, he was much worse than Cena. Man got so damn lazy at that point. As poor as Cena is in weekly television matches, Edge was even worse after 2006.

NOC 2011 was a pretty damn good show up until Henry's monumental victory. Nothing could match the beauty of that moment, so the next few matches paled in comparison, and the wrong person won in all of those cases. Del Rio/Cena was kinda fun because of the hot crowd, but the match itself was probably their worst. Punk/HHH was going very well before the horrid clusterfuck that had no reason to occur. The fatal four way and Rhodes/Dibiase were both good and deserve so much mention. Alex Riley with that great performance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena's weekly TV matches are actually good. Edge's not so much. His 2008 has been really lazy after reliving all of it.

Alex Riley puts in a good showing, has the crowd behind him, a fantastic nearfall in the match to heighten the drama only to fall off the face of the earth _(aka Superstars) _immediately following. _*sigh*_


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Air Boom/Awesome Truth was pretty OK too iirc.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Was in the mood for some random tag matches:

*Chris Jericho and Christian (c) vs Booker T & Goldust for the World tag team titles- No Mercy 2002*​Booker and Goldie had a solid feud going on with Jericho & Christian on RAW in 2002. Booker T is over as hell at this point, gaining the biggest reaction going into the match. The match starts off with Booker T & Goldust in control of Christian and Jericho throughout the match. Jericho gets tagged in by Christian but Goldust takes him down with an uppercut. Jericho is able to gain momentum when he hits a Missile Dropkick on Goldust. Throughout the match, Jericho and Christian work on Goldust and try to prevent him from tagging in Booker T. Goldie is able to gain momentum by giving Jericho a Hangman Snapmare and finally gets the hot tag on Booker T who cleans house followed up with Goldust becoming the legal man again. There is a botch in the match with the second ropes collapsing when Jericho attempted to go for a Lionsault but they were still able to finish the match. Jericho hits a moonsault on Goldust off the top rope and wins the match by pinfall. Solid match. I liked it. Standard stuff though. ★★★1/2


_*1-2-3 Kid & Bob Holly vs The Smoking Gunns for the World tag team titles- RAW 1/30/95​*_I always enjoyed Bob Holly & 1-2-3 Kid as a tag team so had to do a review of of their tag matches. They take on the Smoking Gunns for the WWF tag titles which is a rematch of their tag title match on RAW 1/23/95. 1-2-3 Kid and Billy Kidman starts this match off. 1-2-3 Kid takes Billy Kidman off his feet with his unique offense. The Smoking Gunns try to ground 1-2-3 Kid but 1-2-3 Kid hits them both with a flying clothesline and tags in Bob Holly. Holly takes down Bart Gunn down with a dropkick but Bart kicks out at 2. 1-2-3 Kid gets tagged back looking hurt and the Smoking Gunns showing some concerns. The match was alright but nothing interesting. It's far from bad but it's just there and their match from RAW 1/23/95 is miles better. Okay match. ★★1/4


*The World's Greatest Tag Team vs Funaki & Ultimo Dragon- Velocity 11/9/03​*I forgot about the awesome pairing of Funaki and Ultimo Dragon on Velocity. I also forgot how underutilized Ultimo Dragon was all because Vince found his in-ring work to be 'cartoonish'. Anyways, there is a great back and forth between Funaki and Charlie Haas. Haas works on Funaki's left knee and tags in Shelton Benjamin who also goes after Funaki's left knee. Funaki is able to make the tag to Ultimo Dragon who does the usual cleaning house after a hot tag. Benjamin takes Ultimo down with a superkick. Charlie Haas applies the Haas of Pain on Ultimo and Ultimo taps out. Fun tag match with Ultimo Dragon being the highlight. ★★★


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Opening tag match was bleh. The babyfaces were off. Then the heels were Truth & Mizanin & Miz was already on the decline...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One 2011 PPV that tends to get overlooked is Royal Rumble. I thought that was a pretty good show. Edge/Ziggler was good, Miz/Orton was shockingly good (best match possible between the two at the time), the Fatal 4-Way was worth it for the Double Sharpshooter alone, and the Rumble was one of the most underrated ones ever.

2011 PPV's go for me like this:

Money In The Bank > SummerSlam > Extreme Rules > TLC > Elimination Chamber > Survivor Series > Vengeance > Royal Rumble > Night Of Champions > Hell In A Cell >>> WrestleMania >>>>>>> Over The Limit > Capitol Punishment


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Uploaded a favorite match of this thread, and a fucking must watch for anyone who wants it:

*Black Tiger II (Eddie Guerrero) vs Wild Pegasus (Chris Benoit) - 11/06/96* (11th June)

Semi-Final Match - NJPW Best of the Super Juniors 1996:

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/puro-...sus-chris-benoit-11-06-96-a.html#post23662505

(Y)


----------



## Buff Ted (Nov 13, 2012)

What did you guys think of the Championship Scramble matches and the concept as a whole?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Personally I loved the Scramble match concept, and we got a couple of really good/fun matches out of it too before they totally forgot it existed .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just because I'm in a mood for the future, here's my current Survivor Series '13 card predictions:

- Team Rebels (Daniel Bryan, The Miz, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler and Mark Henry) vs. Team Corporation (Triple H, Randy Orton, Dean Ambrose, The Big Show & Ryback) (If Corporation loses HHH is no longer COO, if Rebels lose Bryan is fired)

- Damien Sandow (c) vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Alberto Del Rio (World Title)

- Team Punk (CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, The Usos and Christian) vs. Team Heyman (Brock Lesnar, Curtis Axel, Wade Barrett and The Real Americans)

- The Undertaker vs. Kane OR Bray Wyatt w/Wyatt Family (In case Taker does return; if he doesn't, Bray Wyatt vs. someone else)

- The Shield (c) vs. Los Matadores (WWE Tag Titles)

- Team AJ (AJ Lee, Layla, Alicia Fox, Aksana and Summer Rae) vs. Team Total Divas (Natalya, The Bellas and The Funkadactyls)

Seems fair enough imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

After last night, I feel terrible, and my head is killing me, hope it was fun, roomie says I kept calling myself the "heartbreak kid" I don't know if I should be embarrassed or not

I need a ppv to review today


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Man I'm pretty sure I slept with a crackhead last night.

Anyways this hangover is horrible. THE PATS shall be the cure. But for right now, more ROLLINS should do it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So pumped for Goldust on Raw, he's one of my top 10 favorite characters ever. He was such a brilliant heel when he debuted, he got people so disgusted and angry it was just tremendous. He also worked his gimmick in the ring flawlessly, can't say enough about his character work. I loved him tagging with Book, their match with the Un-Americans is a sleeper pick for one of my 20 favorite tag matches ever. Such a great old school psychology tag match. Loved it. I hope they give them 8-12 minutes on Raw, if they do I'm betting its a shop-in for MOTN.

Smackdown was ok this week, nothing was really spectacular but it wasn't bad either. Loved the town hall segment, didn't love poor Dolph getting punished again. Orton vs RVD was solid, *** IMO. I loved Jimmy Uso selling the Cesaro uppercut, that has to be one of the most bad ass finishers I've ever seen, especially when a guy sells it roght(see Zayn, Sami). I wish they'd go ahead and break Cesaro off from Swagger. Just makes no sense having them together, and they could have some decent singles matches with each other before Cesaro is off to bigger and better things (hopefully another singles title reign in the next year, fingers crossed). 

Bryan vs Rollins was good for the time it was given, just a short sprint match nothing spectacular. I'd love to see these 2 get 15 minutes on TV, they'd tear the effing house down. I think they are scared of giving Rollins too much singles time in the ring because of the way he bumps and sells like a mad man, it might turn him face. Personally I hope when they break The Shield up they do it in a way where the guys are still allies and don't end up feuding with each other. I can think of a ton of other guys I'd like to see them wrestle than just each other.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Man I'm pretty sure I slept with a crackhead last night.
> 
> Anyways this hangover is horrible. THE PATS shall be the cure. But for right now, more ROLLINS should do it.



I got shit house drunk at a frat party and ended up sleeping with a total stranger few years ago when I was still in college. I woke up in the morning to see her with her roommate sitting on the edge of the bed smoking meth......hardcore hahaha.

P.s. I've been a Giants fan all my life. Here's something to help you're hangover http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=27XeNefwABw. It's something that always makes me feel 10 times better and reminds me good will always conquer evil


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I'm embarrassed :lmao

I feel like vengeance 2011


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to finish watching Survivor Series 2000. Got 2 matches in and gave up :lmao.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I doubt Taker or Brock will be at Survivor Series. I'd love to be wrong. 

The Miz being in that main event (which I heard is down the road) makes me sad.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Man I'm pretty sure I slept with a crackhead last night.


Well, at least her teeth didn't get in the way, right?


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I doubt Taker or Brock will be at Survivor Series. I'd love to be wrong.
> 
> The Miz being in that main event (which I heard is down the road) makes me sad.


Id love that match to happen! But I'm sure it would be at Mania if it did

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## brandiexoxo (Nov 1, 2011)

Id love that match to happen. I can see it happening at Mania thou

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Post here more Brandie. We talk about all the rasslin dvds and blu rays we have and watch. It's really great haha. 

Taker v Brock? Yes that would be at Mania. I don't see either of them coming back until Mania. I too would love to see it. Their Hell in a Cell was fantastic. 

Well Taker obviously won't be back until Mania (probably)but maybe Brock will do something at Rumble? Hard to say. As great as Brock/Punk was I'd like to see it one more time. 

The Miz being involved with names like HHH, Orton, Bryan right now is just stupid. The Miz as a face is just ridiculous. If I had to predict the main event of Survivor Series I'd say 5 x 5 elimination match and...

HHH/Orton The Shield vs Bryan/Punk/Big Show/Dolph/Cody Rhodes


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

IF they do a tag match instead of the title match, it will likely be HHH/Orton/Shield vs Bryan/Show/Dolph/Cody/someone else. Don't think they'll put Punk in there yet, and I hope Miz stays the fuck away.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> IF they do a tag match instead of the title match, it will likely be HHH/Orton/Shield vs Bryan/Show/Dolph/Cody/someone else. Don't think they'll put Punk in there yet, and I hope Miz stays the fuck away.


I doubt they stretch out this Punk/Axel thing. God I hope not. With 2 PPVs after NoC it's up in the air with what Punk will do. I just see him getting back in the main event picture. 

Something like Bryan & Punk v Orton & HHH to main event Battleground and if Bryan & Punk win (which they would) they get a title shot at Orton at HiaC. 

HiaC main event is then Orton v Bryan v Punk with Orton retaining and "tension" builds with Punk and Bryan. 

This is all to build a story line for Punk and Bryan to main event Mania and unify the titles. 

Miz needs to go to TNA.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I found the interivew that got Ziggler in the doghouse, he doesnt say anything crazy though or maybe I'm just a blindless mark


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

U mean "BLIND mark" skins :lol

Oh yes, I'm a grammar Nazi :kobe

Survivor Series '00 talk - Angle/Taker and Rock/Rikishi from that show are awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Survivor Series '00 talk - Angle/Taker and Rock/Rikishi from that show are awesome.


They are... but everything else both on paper and from what I remember is total trash. TRASH. Still, those 2 good matches will likely bring it ahead of No Mercy :lmao.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Miz needs to go to TNA.


 I'd rather have him turn heel instead. He is much better suited as a heel than a face. I do miss his awesome (no pun intended)singles heel run from 2009 - 2011. He became irrelavent after Awesome Truth broke up IMO. Two promos below are his best from his heel run


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Things I like and/or miss about The Miz:

1. All those years he wasn't in wrestling.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Things I like and/or miss about The Miz:
> 
> 1. All those years he wasn't in wrestling.


 so you like his MTV days


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Here in Portugal, during Summer 2010 after winning MITB, it was the Miz craze. Mostly because most of his promo work during that time was consistently solid. That's probably Mike Mizanin's strongest asset BY FAR - his mic skills. That WWE Magazine promo was pretty damn good.

And then Miz convinced even more of us after more than holding his own in that brilliant match against Bryan at NOC 2010. Too bad that after that year/1st half of 2011, he went down south to pure trashland. Awesome Truth was his last hope, then it died all along after Truth got suspended.

Oh well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oliver-94 said:


> so you like his MTV days


If it ain't wrestling, I ain't watching!

Well not true. If it's awesome I'll watch it. MTV is as far from awesome as Miz is .


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

One of my favorite Miz moments was him losing to The Boogeyman in under three minutes at Armageddon 2006.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> U mean "BLIND mark" skins :lol
> 
> Oh yes, I'm a grammar Nazi :kobe


One of those mornings after one of those nights, I swear coffee and football are the only things keeping me alive

Forget vengeance 11, looks like it will be noc 11 for today


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh fuck Miz, let's just talk about someone who deserves much more recognition. Someone who's given his heart, his soul, his blood and tears for this sport. Someone whose in-ring prowness is absolutely incomparable and Godly, and someone who absolutely deserves a Nobel peace prize for his gigantic contribution for the entertainment-method we all know and love as pro-wrestling.

Give it up for KING MO... I mean RAMPAGE JACKSON... fuckshit, I mean TITO ORTIZ!!!!!! :durant2


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

He had the greatest debut ever.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Tito/Rampage/Mo would be the ultimate triple threat match. Now that is a BFG main event.

I started watching Wrestlemania 22 last night and damn that show is fun. Some great matches and the crap ones are short so it isn't so bad. It also makes this years event look even worse.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Miz as a heel is somewhat tolerable. He has actually improved in the ring....again somewhat. He is just boring and annoying and I just wanna slap him. Maybe I'm a tad jealous he is pounding Maryse? I HATE how his finisher is the figure four now. I think Dolph would have been a much better person for Flair to "give" it to.

I also hated Miz on the real world. Hey I was married and I had to watch a lot of shit tv for a few years. Dont judge me.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Settled down to (re)watch the Great American Bash '89. Suddenly every pimped up PPV on this forum (WM17, 19, 24, list goes on) becomes a little less worthy of the pimping up status. Three state of the art main events, and a very enjoyable undercard.

Steiners vs Varsity ***
Sting vs Muta ***1/4
Lex Luger vs Ricky Steamboat ****
WarGames ****
Ric Flair vs Terry Funk ****3/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Desecrated said:


> Settled down to (re)watch the Great American Bash '89. Suddenly every pimped up PPV on this forum (WM17, 19, 24, list goes on) becomes a little less worthy of the pimping up status. Three state of the art main events, and a very enjoyable undercard.
> 
> Steiners vs Varsity ***
> Sting vs Muta ***1/4
> ...


Looks like I've found tonight's entertainment :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Jiz is a perfect example of a person with 'one of those faces' you just wanna punch.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Looks like I've found tonight's entertainment :mark: :mark:


Noticed quite a lot of other people enjoy Sting/Muta so it's very possibly even better.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Great American Bash 1989 rules! I totally preferred WCW (well NWA) over WWF in 1989. From Mania on anyway. You had the Flair/Steamboat trilogy, Flair/Funk Feud, Flair & Sting v Funk & Muta in the Thunderdome match, I looooved Starrcade 1989, etc. 



zep81 said:


> The Jiz is a perfect example of a person with 'one of those faces' you just wanna punch.


Agreed but sadly she sits on it.....


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Agreed but sadly she sits on it.....


Usually the way :angry:



Desecrated said:


> Noticed quite a lot of other people enjoy Sting/Muta so it's very possibly even better.


Yeah, i like it too. Although i may prefer their Japan encounter, and _possibly_ the NWA Pour Hour one also from '89.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My memory is escaping me. What is the Sting/Muta match on the High Flyers dvd? I own it I'm just to lazy to look. That match was good.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> My memory is escaping me. What is the Sting/Muta match on the High Flyers dvd? I own it I'm just to lazy to look. That match was good.



Japan Super Show from March 21st 1991. I have it at 11:43 and ***.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Dark Church-

Are you a long suffering Lions fan like me?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nevermind the Biz, fuck George Clooney:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just watched a gem that isn't talked about enough. Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart IYH 2/18/96. Just a great match, in my mind these guys have better chemistry than Bret/Shawn. The pace is awesome. This is definitely worth a watch, ****


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I am actually a Packers fan despite living in Michigan my entire life. I live with and am friends with Lions fans though so I know the hard times of a Lions fan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Just watched a gem that isn't talked about enough. Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart IYH 2/18/96. Just a great match, in my mind these guys have better chemistry than Bret/Shawn. The pace is awesome. This is definitely worth a watch, ****


That double kip-up (i think) :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watching this jet/bucs game and a linebacker does the flair strut after sacking Geno :lmao

that hbk/owen is pretty good, not that good, but iirc they have some badass TV matches


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nice


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

As much as I like the Shawn/Taker casket match. It would have made more sense to me for Shawn to face Owen at the 98 Rumble


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Mankind/HHH steel cage SS 97 up now. Hope its decent

Vader/HBK SS 96 was ok, could of been better if there wasn't 2 restarts. *** 1/2* ,


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/vader is phenomenal bar those two restarts ****1/4


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Dark Church said:


> As much as I like the Shawn/Taker casket match. It would have made more sense to me for Shawn to face Owen at the 98 Rumble


Agreed 1000%


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Talk about a random video game/wrestling related crossover


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/vader is phenomenal bar those two restarts ****1/4


Truth. That and the Final Four are Vaders best matches in the WWE. Big fan of HBK vs Vader, even bigger fan of HBK throwing a hissy fit and kicking Vader while shouting "Move!". Lmao HBK stressed out of his mind while holding the title in 1996 was awesome. 

Not gonna watch much wrestling today cause football is finally back thank fucking god, but I did watch one match this morning that I absolutely love. It's the Rockers vs Brain Busters at the Boston Garden from the "My Journey" set. When people bring up great tag teams Tully and Arn rarely come up. Those guys were masters of heel psychology and how to pace a match. They do such a brilliant brilliant job of always seeming like world beaters and a legit threat while also putting the baby faces over like a million bucks. Tully in particular plays the slimy sarcastic playboy heel to a T. And no one would ever accuse Arn Anderson of not knowing how to work a match, those two complemented each other so well. Such a shame they didn't get a longer run together in the WWE. Especially with the Brain at ring side, those guys were just money.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> *Mankind/HHH steel cage SS 97 up now. Hope its decent*
> 
> Vader/HBK SS 96 was ok, could of been better if there wasn't 2 restarts. *** 1/2* ,


It is more then decent, try MOTN for SummerSlam 97


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think it's time I finally tackle Over The Limit 2011. Wish me luck. There is a reason why I've only watched Christian vs Orton from this show.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nothing else tbh maybe chavo/cara ? Orton/Christian is glorious though

In the middle of noc 11 atm rhodes/dibiase is a pleasant surprise


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> I think it's time I finally tackle Over The Limit 2011. Wish me luck. There is a reason why I've only watched Christian vs Orton from this show.


Just looked at the card. Fuck me, potential MOTN was a fucking dark match; Bryan Vs McIntyre. Just watch Christian Vs Orton . Please.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Iirc Rey/Truth was decent too. But yeah, OTL 2011 was a fucking failed abortion of a show.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Foley/Trips Summerslam 1997 is one of my favorite openers of all time (right up there with Bret/Owen and Angle/Rey from Summerslam 2002) and one of my fave cage matches of all time.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Nothing else tbh maybe chavo/cara ? Orton/Christian is glorious though
> 
> In the middle of noc 11 atm rhodes/dibiase is a pleasant surprise


Just watched that last night.

Your gonna enjoy the main event


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I think it's time I finally tackle Over The Limit 2011. Wish me luck. There is a reason why I've only watched Christian vs Orton from this show.


Dat Miz/Cena tho. GOAT I Quit match. :cena3

Hard to believe Punk was tagging with Mason Ryan and LOSING to Show and Kane, then two months later is on top of the world.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

done with the 90s match set DVD. Gonna dive back into Best of RAW and SD now. RR 2000 should be in the mail sometime this week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Dat Miz/Cena tho. GOAT I Quit match. :cena3
> 
> Hard to believe Punk was tagging with Mason Ryan and LOSING to Show and Kane, then two months later is on top of the world.


Heard it's the worst thing ever. Can't wait to see how bad it is.

lolz. That's the nature of the biz. Thankfully all was made right.



smitty915 said:


> Just watched a gem that isn't talked about enough. Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart IYH 2/18/96. Just a great match, in my mind these guys have better chemistry than Bret/Shawn. The pace is awesome. This is definitely worth a watch, ****


I was underwhelmed by it. Not too much of a fan.



Callamus said:


> Just looked at the card. Fuck me, potential MOTN was a fucking dark match; Bryan Vs McIntyre. Just watch Christian Vs Orton . Please.


I have to see how the Lawler vs Cole feud finally ended. It's been killing me...

:|

Consider it a desire to finally see every match WWE produced in 2011. I got nothing else to do atm.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cena/Miz I Quit is high-end DUD. It did everything wrong.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I was underwhelmed by it. Not too much of a fan.


Any thoughts on their best match? I do remember a good Raw match or two, also from '96.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Miz on PPV never works it seems. Yet their matches on TV _(following The Bash & Extreme Rules)_ did. What gives?

I will say that I did like the triple threat cage from Extreme Rules. That seems to be the only exception.

-----------

@Zep - yeah, I'm thinking the '96 RAW match has got to take the cake. Remember digging that one 100% while the PPV match in Feb didn't quite leap out like it should have.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TLC 2011 deserves to be pimped out more. DAT :HHH2 putting on his carrying shoes instead of his burying shoes :berried. The main event was also a really good match with everything you want in a TLC match. Solid undercard too. Just an overall great way to end 2011.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on the Greatest superstars of the 90s DVD​
I wasn't a fan of the doc here. It wasn't bad by any means but it felt VERY rushed There just wasn't alot of new content here. They pulled a lot of stuff from older docs and it just felt very cookie cutter. But I was able to watch the whole 2 hours 

The match selection was good. The highlights of the match selections were Bret/Owen WM X and Mankind/HHH Cage match SS 97. Wish there was some more content from the attitude era but there is some stuff that hasn't been released a lot. 

If you can find it for 5 bucks like I did. Its worth the pickup.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Iirc Its was the match Shawn kayfabe fainted ? that one was pretty good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Back to watching Survivor Series 2000. THE EPIC COFFEE FEUD~!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> TLC 2011 deserves to be pimped out more. DAT :HHH2 putting on his carrying shoes instead of his burying shoes :berried. The main event was also a really good match with everything you want in a TLC match. Solid undercard too. Just an overall great way to end 2011.


(Y)

A rad show. Actually has a _*gasp*_ good Orton vs Barrett match on it. I know. Nobody can believe it. Only match I didn't like was Henry vs Show and that's b/c of injury. _(maybe it could be better if I give it one more chance, but I remember it being kind of nothing till the abrupt end.)_ Then Danielson's cash in makes that whole sequence great.

I love the opener. Great match.



Callamus said:


> Back to watching Survivor Series 2000. THE EPIC COFFEE FEUD~!


SANKA ON A POLE


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Cena vs Miz on PPV never works it seems. Yet their matches on TV _(following The Bash & Extreme Rules)_ did. What gives?
> 
> I will say that I did like the triple threat cage from Extreme Rules. That seems to be the only exception.
> 
> ...


IIRC they had a good match in The Rock's birthday edition lmao) too?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Miz vs Anyone can fuck off. Anything involving him causes me to immediately tune out. Call it Mero-Syndrome. I just can't invest myself in anything involving him. His FCA match with Morrison and his US Title match with Bryan are the only matches of his I'd watch more than once without being paid. Fuck Miz. Ahem. 

Someone that likes making lists, top 10 Christian singles matches? I'm in a Christian kinda mood and I want to see if I have missed any of "Christian's Greatest Hits". My favorite might be vs Orton at Summerslam but I don't know. I do remember when I watched Smackdown from 2009 that Everything he did that year was just solid, solid gold.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> SANKA ON A POLE


Shame Russo wasn't still around. Instead of LMS at Armageddon that's probably what we would have gotten :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EmbassyForever said:


> IIRC they had a good match in The Rock's birthday edition lmao) too?


Yeah that's the one following Extreme Rules. Really good match and should have been what was seen at WM. Luckily they managed to have a good match on that terrible night of RAW.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> @Zep - yeah, I'm thinking the '96 RAW match has got to take the cake. Remember digging that one 100% while the PPV match in Feb didn't quite leap out like it should have.





redskins25 said:


> Iirc Its was the match Shawn kayfabe fainted ? that one was pretty good


Found these Owen/HBK Raw matches, with this one being the 'fainted' one:






One from '97:






Could have sworn a match with Owen was on of HBK's DVD's. :sad: Must be thinking of another DVD....


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I really liked both of those, they had better chemistry than bret/hbk

Yea I remember there was a pretty good miz/cena match out there on raw


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah that's the one following Extreme Rules. Really good match and should have been what was seen at WM. Luckily they managed to have a good match on that terrible night of RAW.


Im actually watching that match right now. Its decent so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flair and a broomstick have better chemistry than HBK/Bret.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Owen Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (RAW 8/12/96) is the Raw match i was thinking of, can't find a vid to that though


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Flair and a broomstick have better chemistry than HBK/Bret.


Who or what doesn't have chemistry with Flair? He can/could pull a good match out of a chupacabra.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Owen '97 match. Awesome. Have to get on that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm trying to remember someone Flair had bad chemistry with. Still thinking.....still thinking.....

I'm almost always in a Flair mood.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

MVP at the 2008 Rumble?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah that match was pretty dull I guess. I did like MVP. His character at least.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They did show some signs chemistry, but Flair was quite off by that time. Still better than Vengeance '07.


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

*SummerSlam 2006*

Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero - **1/2

*ECW World Title*: The Big Show vs. Sabu - ***

Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Orton - **1/4

*"I Quit" Match*: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley - ***1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*: King Booker vs. Batista - **3/4

D-Generation X vs. The McMahons - ***3/4

*WWE Championship*: Edge vs. John Cena - ***3/4


My biggest gripe with the show is that quite a few of the matches were short-changed.

Rey/Chavo, minus the awful storyline, could have benefitted from a few extra minutes. Foley/Flair just went straight into the weapons, felt like it had zero story, and jumped to the end just as it was getting started, and Edge/Cena was a great match, but again, ended as soon as it started.

This is a star-studded card, and a great follow-up to the 2005 show, but it just skims the surface of everything it could be. Still, a damn good show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MVP vs Flair matches in 2008 were the worst pieces of crap ever. 

:lmao @ MVP.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If not for Flair/Foley and Cena/Edge, Summerslam 2006 would have a candidate for worst in the history of the event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Worst pieces of crap ever are Michael Bay movies not named The Rock and Transformers 1. FACT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> If not for Flair/Foley and Cena/Edge, Summerslam 2006 would have a candidate for worst in the history of the event.


The following year's is up there in that regard IMO.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oof. You're right. Booker/Trips at *** was one of the high points. Oh and what seemed like the 27 video promo hyping Trips' return.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> They did show some signs chemistry, but Flair was quite off by that time. Still better than Vengeance '07.


He did just have my favorite match of all time and one of the best ever a year later, and iirc he has a slamming match with hunter on raw in 07 as well


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

They really were masturbating over HHH's return.

"Gentlemen, we CAN rebuild him..." :vince3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

It really did go on forever. The video, the "Are you Ready", the lifeline, the pyro, the "King of Kings opening riff", then The Game theme. 




:HHH2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Owen/HBK - WWF Raw - 29/12/1997:






Michaels' last Raw match of the 90's i believe. In that video, it shows the WWE logo, is that match on a DVD then?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is HHH's King Of King's theme included on the WM 22 DVD? When did he start/stop using that as his music, or was it sporadic?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Pretty sure WM 22 was the first time he used that theme.

Also, just read that Sami Zayn teamed with Bo Dallas at a live event, beating Swagger and Cesaro. Apparently Bo pinned CESARO. :moyes1


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Is HHH's King Of King's theme included on the WM 22 DVD? When did he start/stop using that as his music, or was it sporadic?


He used it for like a month in 2006. He would come out once to "The Game" and then the next time it would be "King of Kings". He completely ditched it when he reformed DX with HBK, though.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Man Bo Dallas is going to make a great heel. Everyone already loves to hate him!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I bet 1000 euros that an ECW crowd would gladly chant for Cena over Bo. That's how amazing of a heel he is.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

ATF....don't be silly, they are called dollars. Hahahaha.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Who or what doesn't have chemistry with Flair? He can/could pull a good match out of a chupacabra.


Was there ever a really good Flair v. Rick Rude? I've only seen one Flair v. Michaels I really like. I'm honestly not too hot on Flair v. Sting either despite me being one of the guys to defend Sting at any point. Gotta watch Clash 1 again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> ATF....don't be silly, they are called dollars. Hahahaha.


I'm European *pal* :side:

:lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Bo Dallas. Pinned Cesaro. While teaming with Zayn. Ugh

They couldn't have given Zayn the fall after losing to Cesaro the last few matches? Wonder why Bo teamed with Zayn, Zayns a face and Bo just cost him his match with Swagger. Weird

I'm all for anything involving Zayn being called up to the Main Roster though, even if he has to team with a bum like Bo to do it.

One person Flair didn't have good chemistry with was Bret Hart. Not a fan of their matches at all. Although ive only seem 2 of them so i, not positive they never had a good ine. It's neither guys fault really they just weren't in sync. Bret liked to map his matches out and Flair was a fly by the seat of his pants guy. Bret and Flair both say the same things in their books.

Did Flair ever have a great match with Vader? I've never seen them together although I assume they had to have had some matches. Maybe they had a Starrcade match? I only saw the Vader hogan strap match that some how resulted in Flair losing. Gotta love old WCW logic.

On a similar topic, who do you think had the best chemistry in the ring? My vote goes to Eddie/Rey with Flair/Steamboat, HBK/Taker, and Bret/Perfect following VERY closely behind. None of those combos ever had a bad match, and I'd pay top dollar any time anywhere to see them go at it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

flair/hart souled out 98 is great


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I liked their iron man more than expected. 

I've always really loved Flair v. Vader at Starrcade and I'm not sure I'll ever go down on it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

flair/vader ****3/4 magnificent match, and flair promo on vader may make it *****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> flair/vader ****3/4 magnificent match, and flair promo on vader may make it *****


Can't find the full version on YouTube right now, dammit all


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

BUT BO DALLAS PINNED CESARO THOUGH.

As long as this doesn't happen on television, I'll be able to keep my rage to a minimum.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bo Dallas already pinned Cesaro on TV this year. Who cares, Cesaro made the match really good. Had what has to be my favorite spot in a match all year long.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah. He pinned him after a POWER SLAM.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Three ways blow. Plus Lesnar fighting against the new Helmsley regime would make him seem *like a babyface (like he did in their cage match 8*D).* I'd rather Trip not even wrestle any more. I know that sounds like I just don;t want to see his work any more and that's part of it, but he's in the boss role now. The boss who gets others to do his dirty work. What's more scummy than beating someone to a pulp for selfish reasons? Letting someone else (Orton) beat someone to a pulp for selfish reasons while pointing and laughing. And three ways BLOW. Kills any dream match aura surrounding a potentially great singles match.


HEY, someone else notices it too...



HayleySabin said:


> I think it's time I finally tackle Over The Limit 2011. Wish me luck. There is a reason why I've only watched Christian vs Orton from this show.


Fucking TERRIBLE show. Rey/Truth is a solid opener and Orton/Christian is fantastic but my god nothing else is worth your time. Feels like a bunch of meaningless RAW matches. Cara/Chavo is a joke and the main event is even worse. I think the tag match is actually watchable... but who cares.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The belly to belly suplex - homage to Magnum TA.

_*waits for people to crap on him meanwhile nobody cared that Shelton Benjamin's T-Bone suplex finisher was exactly the same*_


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Looked closer at it. Yes it's not an actual "power slam", but it doesn't seem to have the impact that a finisher would have. He's certainly not the only person with this issue, but he's easiest to hate right now. Doesn't even matter that he's not on the main roster.


----------



## Palahniuk (Jun 18, 2013)

Watching the Mind Games IYH at the moment and just need to say - Austin, Pillman and Owen cutting a promo on Bret Hart = :mark: :mark: :mark:

Also, what was the deal with ECW at the start?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Over The Limit 2011 is off to a rousing start...[sarcasm/]

Oh this is gonna be a lot of fun watching this crap play out.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love me some Magnum TA. The belly to belly is a fun finisher. 



ATF said:


> I'm European *pal* :side:
> 
> :lol


I know. I was being funny. I will try harder haha.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> The belly to belly suplex - homage to Magnum TA.
> 
> _*waits for people to crap on him meanwhile nobody cared that Shelton Benjamin's T-Bone suplex finisher was exactly the same*_


I'm more of a slingshot suplex man myself:side:

Tullys finisher didn't make a ton of sense. I love everything else about him though.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Rock vs HHH vs Angle from Summerslam 2000 is awful btw. Overbooked, botchfest, too much drama/Steph... considering the names involved it should've been so much better.

I don't think I've facepalmed more times during one match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the Attitude Era...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Too much Steph? No such thing.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

She botched at least two major spots during that match and it looked laughable. The whole thing felt like I was watching a Mexican soap opera.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It's the Attitude Era...


Truth. Technical masterpieces kinda took a back seat to wild brawling, crazy booking, and complicated finishes. Doesn't mean there weren't still great matches, as Foley vs Rocky I Quit is probably the best example of a great Attitude Era match. Obviously Rock vs Austin WM17 would also fit the same archetype. 

I do enjoy a lot about the Attitude Era, but I much prefer the New Gen Era, the Ruthless Aggresion Era, and even the current PG era match quality wise to what went on from 98-01. 

For the record I think identifying eras to be a very subjective and useless idea, because whose to say when the AE ended and the RA era began? So subjective and a pretty useless thing to try and identify. Although I guess you could say the Invasion storyline ended the AE and the PG era began whenever Raw first got its PG rating (whenever that was). I don't know, spent way too much time thinking about this already.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Rock from WM 17 isn't even that good either b/c of that typical boring Attitude Era crap. It's all hot and stuff and then it goes on...and on...and on.

Sin Cara vs Chavo Guerrero Jr. was a five star match. On the horrendous tear out my eyes scale. Botched finish, what a surprise. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock/HHH/Angle from Summerslam was pretty bad, although I marked out like crazy for Kurt Angle. HHH and Rock bored us to death when the match was focused on just them two, but Angle was just downright hilarious. They had an even better match on RAW around tat time, as well as a better one on Smackdown in early 2001.

It really is kinda weird. The Attitude Era was filled with some of the most entertaining and colorful characters in wrestling history, but these guys didn't always bring it in the ring. Very little about guys like Austin and Rock could be considered "boring", but something about all the unnecessary outside brawls and ref bumps were stupid. I don't know if there is any good justification for all that nonsense. Especially those outside brawls; I can only think of two or three ever in WWE history that weren't terrible. Bret/Shawn at SvS 97 being one of them.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, AE had too many of these brawl matches that go around the arena. I also don't get the ref's complete disregard for the ten count as he goes out with them.

That's also why I don't understand the ignorant AE fanboys when they sound completely shocked if somebody says they prefer the RA era to it because of the ring work. Some of them need to get their head out of their ass and realize that not everyone is obligated to love crash TV.

But despite this, as I'm about to finish 2007, I will go back and watch the whole AE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Night of Champions 2011*


tag match n/a
cody/dibiase ***
fatal 4 **1/2
henry/orton ***3/4-4
divas n/a
cena/del rio ***1/2
punk/hhh *

Notes ​- The tag match I was watching and during the middle portion I just lose interest, I remember actually liking awesome truth during that time and thought they should have won, nothing special here

- The IC match was a plesent surprise, nothing great, but a decent match, alittle to frantic but its decent, loved undashing rhodes and really thought they killed all his momentum at wm 28, should have had the longest IC reign, hell he should have the belt now

- Nice little US match, For the first time I think I was actually distracted by Vickie in a match, what happened to A riley ? isnt to bad in the ring and stood out here, loved ziggler's US reign and the last time it was important

- henry/orton was MOTN, very good match, just awesome storytelling by Henry and Orton both as could orton handle someone like henry, and could henry finally come through. I compare this match to henry/cena mitb 13, its pretty similar IMO. As good as this is I think henry/cena is much better

- Dont watch diva matches, only care about their looks except for Sherri, she had it all

- This one I will try to watch again because I wasn't really focused, watching the giants.cowboys game in the back, its pretty good though, why did Cena win though ?

- And the main event, just really meh and boring, I'm all for brawls, however this is just boring and I wanted to turn it off every other second, the run-ins made it even worse

All in all decent ppv, nothing amazing but nothing horrible except the main event


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NOC 2011:

Air Boom/Awesome Truth: ***3/4*
Rhodes/Dibiase: ****1/4*
Fatal Four Way: ****1/4*
Orton/GOAT: ****3/4*
Divas: *-_-*
Cena/Del Rio: *****
Punk/HHH: First half was on its way to being ******, second half turned this into *LOLWTF*

Watching the Undertaker/Kennedy series right now, which is a series that I never bothered watching before yet always kept asking about. The First Blood match at Survivor Series was pretty damn hilarious (LMFAO MVP) yet also pretty bad. Watching No Mercy now and so far it's alright. Can't imagine the Last Ride match being any good though, but stranger things have happened. I once saw a Ryback/Khali match that I liked.

EDIT: What the hell is going on? I'm actually impressed by Kennedy here. This must be a career performance.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

In the mood for some HARDYZ, but I'm in the mood for some of them in singles. Recs?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> (LMFAO MVP)


What's up with this? Today after the post talking about Flair vs MVP from 2008, I wanted to respond with "lol @ MVP" for some reason. Then the "Paramore fan" as you say posted exactly that and now this?

To add to it, lol @ MVP.

For something more relevant, Henry/Orton is easy MOTN for Night of Champions. ★★★¾.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Trips wasn't even good before clusterfuck. I legit watched a few shitty Triple H gimmick matches right before that match and it's 100% exactly the same match every time over. It's pathetic. So yeah, that match vs Punk can go away. We're just lucky Punk is better than crappy guys like The Rock in the Attitude era b/c he can try and incorporate some non-punching/non-crappy offense which tries to make things interesting.

Don't like Bret vs Shawn from Survivor Series. More crap. So boring. Oh boy, PUNCHES! And not even in the awesome slugfest type way that you'll see some heavy hitters throw. It's just lame as hell. Bret Hart's work died after Austin became babyface, I swear to science.

Undertaker vs Kennedy First Blood is the only match from them I like. Rest stink. No Mercy is a weird match. Things are just off.

OTL is an amazing PPV guys. This is dynamite. Good lord. This is like idk what level bad. Feels like a three hour edition of WWE Superstars, tbhayley.

So much bad all in one post to be discussed. How is this possible? Someone please, something good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I'm really shocked how bad punk/hhh was, like holy shit, and this is before awesome truth came out, just a weak weak brawl


----------



## Palahniuk (Jun 18, 2013)

Glad I carried on with Mind Games despite struggling to keep interest halfway through. Mostly shite but loved Michaels v Mankind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a flawless match. Despite the botched finish. I'm a fan of paradoxes so I welcome the conundrum.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Finished the rivalries documentary. I can't believe Rock/Mankind didn't make the cut. Edge/Taker should have made it to me but overall not as bad as Rock/Mankind.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Has to be thanks to it being a feud that was big, but still always was second fiddle to whatever Austin was doing at the time. Mostly continuing his long standing grudge with Vince.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Got around to watching a match that has lately slipped away from my mind everytime I considered watching it. Steamboat up against Flair at WrestleWar 89.

Feels like there is two halves to the match. The first half which felt like I was slowly drifting off to sleep, and the fabulous second half. I don't think there is much better in wrestling than that second half, at least from what I've seen. Perfect. I could easily overlook my only gripe with the first half in that it's just boring. And I will. ***** Woo, a 3rd 5 star match.

And then two other matches
Ric Flair vs Wahoo McDaniel 07/12/85 **** Exceptional storytelling. Would of desired to see slightly more in ring work between these two but I get that from the Battle of the Belts encounter 2 months later.
Midnight Express vs Ric Flair & Barry Windham 12/07/88 ***1/2 Just as I had hoped from these four? In a dream world it would of taken place in Mid-South. But fuck it, great fun and a fantastic performance from Eaton.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There was talk of Taker/Kennedy.

Taker/Kennedy NM, coming from a guy that saw it a million times already, has its moments (Kennedy's Piledriver for e.g.) but everything they built up was rendered bizarrely pointless with that DQ. And Last Ride was just a squash with spots.

The First Blood was the only acceptable thing out of that pukeworthy PPV. And before you say Benoit/Chavo, the No DQ and Armageddon matches were better anyway.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just rewatched Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls :mark: & the strength of Cesaro is just :clap

Finally watched Lesnar/Triple H from Extreme Rules again and I have to say I enjoy the match so much more now, thought it was dull and plain at first, but now it is quite enjoyable.

Now It's time to finish the year of 1997 with the DX ppv.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Been re-watching some 2013 stuff recently to solidify da snowflakes:

*The Shield vs. The Uso's - ***1/2
The Shield vs. Orton/Bryan/Kane - ***3/4
The Shield vs. Taker/Bryan/Kane - ***3/4
The Shield vs. Jericho/Ryback/Seamus - ****

Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins I - ***1/2
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton NODQ - ***1/2

Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam - ***1/2

William Regal vs. Kassius Ohno - ***3/4
Antonio Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn 2/3 Falls (Full Match) - *****

All on RAW, SD or NXT. What a crazy year for TV.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I hope I'm not the only one who thinks Orton/RVD from this past week > the August one.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ATF said:


> I hope I'm not the only one who thinks Orton/RVD from this past week > the August one.


I forgot about this week! Whoops. I think I have them both ranked the same though.


----------



## StylinProfilin (Nov 5, 2006)

Where are we at with MOTYC? Including TNA,ROH, etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MOTYC:

Undertaker Vs Punk WM
Cesaro Vs Zayn 2/3 Falls NXT
Punk Vs Lesnar SS

That's all I got.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My MOTY is Punk/Lesnar with Cena/Bryan right behind. Nothing is on the same level as those two matches this year so far.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena/Bryan
Taker/Punk
Punk/Lesnar
Cena/Punk
HHH/Lesnar Mania

Then lots of other Shield tags.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

*Don't know whether this was posted in here before, but I'll post it anyway, because its best for business :HHH2






WWE's documentaries never fail to deliver, and I'm sure this won't be any different. Really looking forward to it.*


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

That trailer. The gushing story of how Triple H is the most important man to ever exist.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

1. Cena/Bryan
2. Lesnar/Punk
3. Cena/Punk- RAW
4. Sami/Cesaro- 2/3 Falls
5. Taker/Punk

My MoTY list so far


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> MOTYC:
> 
> Undertaker Vs Punk WM
> Cesaro Vs Zayn 2/3 Falls NXT
> ...



That's my top 3. 

1. Lesnar vs Punk
2. Punk vs Taker
3. Cesaro vs Zayn 2/3 Falls
4. Cena vs Punk from Raw
5. Bryan vs Cena

Other than Punk-Lesnar being #1 overall, the other 4 could really be in any order. I LOVED Cena vs Punk from Raw, easily their second best match after MitB. I hope Orton vs Bryan NoC delivers, those two have no excuse if the match is booked properly not to execute a wonderful match. Heel Orton vs Baby Face Bryan fighting back from underneath is a story that sells itself.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot about Cena/Punk from Raw. Not entirely sure of my order or anything, but those 3 I already posted + the Cena/Punk match are the only MOTYC imo. A bunch of other really, really good stuff like Cena/Bryan and SHIELD matches have happened, but none of them are matches I would consider for overall MOTY or anything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Out of the NOC card, Orton/Bryan, Ambrose/Ziggler and ADR/RVD certainly have their potential. Of course, Shield/Black Show too.

Top 10 Raw matches of the year so far?


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

From memory my revised top 3 for WWE is Dolph/del Rio Payback, Bryan/Cena Summerslam & Punk/Lesnar Summerslam.

Also seen some praise for Rollins/Bryan on RAW. Never understood it. Too short and it only really shined in it's finishing stretch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For Raw alone, my top 10:

1 - Cena/Punk
2 - Bryan/Real Americans & Ryback
3 - Shield/Hell Boom
4 - Rollins/Bryan I
5 - Shield/Hell No 2-on-2
6 - Dazzlers Of Destruction/Shield
7 - Orton/Bryan No DQ
8 - Jericho, Sheamus & Ryback/Shield
9 - Punk/Jericho
10 - ADR/Ziggler Post-MITB


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Continuing my SHIELD watchings after I'm off class.

Perhaps I'll give insight into every match and why it's so fucking awesome.

But I'm lazy, so I'll just do what most lazy people do and just throw snowflakes.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

MOTY stuff would be either Taker/Punk or Punk/Lesnar. No other matches come close to those, although there are the awesome Kofi-Hell No/Shield tag, Bryan/Cena, SD MITB, and several other awesome matches.

Actually, I just watched Taker/Punk yesterday, and after putting Punk/Brock as #1, now I'm having second thoughts. Taker/Punk is still just as, if not more awesome, than when I saw it live. The only thing it does wrong is it doesn't provide a true "streak almost ending" moment. The urn shot thing would've worked in like, 2006, but not now (it still got us in the crowd going, of course). However that and maybe the table spot are the only two complaints I have, Everything else about the match was fantastic and it's hard, now watching it back, for me to not put it at as MOTY. I'll have to re-watch Punk/Lesnar again at some point, although I'm beginning to wonder if this will just end up as "whichever one I watch last between the two will be my MOTY"?

Edit: Also re-watched Rock/Cena WM28. Match stands where I put it, but I actually also watched through the entrances as I was having trouble skipping past it. DAMN, those, plus the video package took up a (great) match worth.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Punk is better imo - dat subtle storytelling *brilliance*.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Agreed, Taker was in no danger of losing and they never had that moment in the match where you were worried. That DOES hurt the match a little for me. 

1. Brock/Punk SS ****3/4
2. Cena/Bryan SS ****1/4
3. Taker/Punk WM ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This is a long shot but does anyone know of a site that has a list of all the extras on WWE PPV DVDs? I'm always looking for shows that have cool extras or TV gems as a bonus match. Shit like Brock/Hogan on Summerslam 2002 or that Andre/Killer Khan Stretcher Match on Judgment Day 2003.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Following on from watching The Great American Bash 2008 I bought Unforgiven 2008 and I thought Jericho/HBK was clear MOTN. A much better match that the GAB 2008 one. I had a break from wrestling at this point so i'm shocked that they had another match after this. This was the perfect way to end the feud with HBK finally getting retribution. Some brilliant brawling that never got boring. Didn't have many spots, but in the feud they had it would of been wrong to. ****1/2 for the match.

As for the scramble matches, I wasn't a big fan. In the WWE Championship one, Jeff Hardy decides against breaking the pin fall that won Triple H the match in the last few seconds of it which didn't make any sense. The World Heavyweight Championship match didn't have the best wrestlers in it to make it a great match. A cool ending though with Jericho winning. The ECW one was easily the best of the night for me, was very watchable and a good ending with Matt Hardy just breaking up every pin fall like Jeff should of done. I don't understand why they went all out to get the scramble concept over with 3 matches on one night and then never use it again. 

ECW Scramble Match - ***1/2
WWE Scramble Match - ***
WHC Scramble Match - **1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

GAMEDAY #roadtosuperbowl #skins :lol

dolph/adr payback is still my MOTY can watch that anyday of the week, to hell with the rest of my list at this point


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mr.Limelight said:


> I don't understand why they went all out to get the scramble concept over with 3 matches on one night and then never use it again.
> 
> ECW Scramble Match - ***1/2
> WWE Scramble Match - ***
> WHC Scramble Match - **1/2


They had another ECW title one in 09 . THE BASH PPV I think.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Callamus said:


> They had another ECW title one in 09 . THE BASH PPV I think.


Oh right, will have to check that out then .

The concept definitely had potential, one of those types of matches that would produce better matches as more took place. Surprised they didn't make an annual gimmick PPV out of it TBH.

And I have purchased No Mercy 2008  ! I have heard this PPV is up there with one of the best B PPV's ever? Thoughts on it guys? Card looks great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Oh right, will have to check that out then .
> 
> The concept definitely had potential, one of those types of matches that would produce better matches as more took place. Surprised they didn't make an annual gimmick PPV out of it TBH.
> 
> And I have purchased No Mercy 2008  ! I have heard this PPV is up there with one of the best B PPV's ever? Thoughts on it guys? Card looks great.


It is a fucking incredible show. Everything is either good, excellent or at least short and fun.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Can't find the full version on YouTube right now, dammit all


Sure i uploaded that match. Check my sig.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Someones on the Drew McIntyre Unhappy w/3MB thread said he fucking sucked.

Opinions aside, I want to pity them.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I enjoyed No Mercy 2008, I'm" not as big on the Ladder Match as others (preferred Jericho/Michaels @Unforgiven) however HHH vs. Jeff Hardy was so damn good; oh and Matt Hardy/Mark Henry wasn't a bad opener either lol. Everything else was tolerable as well, good show.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some predictions of the Goldust/Orton match quality? I'd say that they could deliver a solid *** match


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I hate predicting star ratings, should be a decent match, still havent seen a goldust match ever except one, should watch one now


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jericho's performance in that ladder match = 

Love HHH/Hardy as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I hate predicting star ratings, should be a decent match, still havent seen a goldust match ever except one, should watch one now



Dude you need to get on that shit, Goldust was awesome, one of the best character workers of the 90s, behind Taker Mankind and maybe 1 or 2 others. Check his match with Piper at Mania for an obvious one (they beat the absolute piss out of each other). I also enjoyed his matches with Pillmen, Vega, Ahmed Johnson, Taker, and his Royal Rumble match with Razor.

And Zep81- as always, you are the man sir thank you so much.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I wouldn't mind The Scramble match returning, I found it fun. I remember marking for The Brian Kendrick in that WWE Title Scramble match when he became the temporary champion.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

THE Brian Kendrick's celebration when he was temporary champ was awesome.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I miss *THE* Brian Kendrick. Big Zeke... not so much


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

StylinProfilin said:


> Where are we at with MOTYC? Including TNA,ROH, etc.


There's only been two recent additions, but my top five (from a global scale, and across many promotions/styles) remains rather similar to what it has been the past few months:

1) Shinsuke Nakamura(c) Vs Kazushi Sakuraba (05/01/2013 NJPW)
2) CM Punk Vs John Cena (25/02/2013 WWE)
3) The Undertaker Vs CM Punk (07/04/2013 WWE)
4) Daniel Bryan Vs John Cena (18/08/2013 WWE)
5) Charles Lucero Vs Rey Hechicero (04/08/2013 Fighters NICE)

Pretty crazy to think that the WWE has almost half of my top 10, too.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WWE title championship scramble was pretty fun. Wouldn't mind seeing that match type again.

Just watched Bret/Perfect from KOTR 1993. Bret just had a nice match with Razor Ramon, setting up the encounter with Perfect. The pre-match interview with the two is hilarious. "My dad beat your dad." This is a really fun match. Not so technical, and they focused on Bret possibly having a few broken fingers, which Perfect used to prevent the Sharpshooter. They both work on each other's knee for a bit also, with Bret doing some nice leg work and using the Figure Four. Match ends when Bret reverses Perfect's inside cradle with one of his own. Handshake to end. Guess I'll need to check out Bret/Bam Bam at some point.

Checking out some Goldust matches in honor of his RAW return tonight. Backlot Brawl with Piper, IC title match with Razor, and some others.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> I miss *THE* Brian Kendrick. Big Zeke... not so much







DAT theme. 

THE Brian Kendrick was one of my favorite characters in the company at the time, his transformation from a bland wrestler with no direction into a badass heel character was great. It just goes to show you what a total makeover can do for a wrestler, when you saw Kendrick teaming with London you would think he had no personality and would go nowhere in the company, but once they gave him a character with direction, some mic time, a push, he really made the most of it but it's just a shame he ended up fucking up his push. 

Bray Wyatt now is an example of how a total transformation can really turn around a wrestler's career.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

How was Taker/Hogan from JD 2002? watching some Taker matches and it's the next one in the list.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

* from me for Taker/Hogan from JD. Very weak match, but it was pretty short at least, 13 minutes if I remember correctly


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

EmbassyForever said:


> How was Taker/Hogan from JD 2002? watching some Taker matches and it's the next one in the list.


Personally, I enjoyed it. ★★★¼


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

iwatchwrestling, definitely check out Bret/Bm Bam from KOTR '93 sometime. One of my all time favorite Bam Bam matches and a real gem to say the least. Gets so overlooked it's not even funny.

----------------------

_SPOILER_ going into my Payback review I'll be posting later. Punk vs. Jericho is fucking HORRIBLE.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Your arent allowed to post in here anymore Corey if you dont like dolph/adr :ziggler3

I actually thought Bret/razor was MOTN from that ppv, never to rewatch the perfect match but remember liking their summerslam more


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KOTR 93: Bret/Perfect (*****) > Bret/Bam Bam (***1/2) > Bret/Razor (***).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bret/Bam Bam is **** 1/4 for me. I wrote a long ass review on it a while back. Such a simple match but beautifully worked.



redskins25 said:


> Your arent allowed to post in here anymore Corey if you dont like dolph/adr :ziggler3
> 
> I actually thought Bret/razor was MOTN from that ppv, never to rewatch the perfect match but remember liking their summerslam more


Don't worry, I like it... just not as much as you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've still not seen Dolph/ADR. Or any PPV between WM and SS from this year.

Might continue with Survivor Series 00 tonight. Still not made it through it :lmao. I'm up to one of the known good matches though, and there has been a surprise good match too. So that makes 3 matches on the show worth seeing... which I guess is something .


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Watched some Taker's matches from the collection I was talking bout eariler.

*Rey Mysterio vs Underatker RR 2010 *- The first minutes were great, fast paced with good storytelling. The middle was kinda boring, Taker looked like he was exhausted and the match had lots of rest spots for him. The finish, though, was awesome. Still, not as good as I rememberd, and for a 10-13 minutes match it was pretty slow. **1/2

*Undertaker vs "the forgotten Paul Heyman guy﻿" Heidenreich SVS 2004* - Good match, fun story and I always thought Heidenreich was pretty good. My only problem with the match was the crowd, the were DEAD SILENT in Heidenreich's entrance and weren't into the match at all. ***

*Undertaker vs Mark Henry WM 22 *- Wanted this match to happen in WM29 really bad.. It was fine I guess, it had it's moments (Taker's amazing dive, the Last Ride, Tombestone..) but the match wasn't really interesting. **1/4

*Undertaker vs Hollywood Hulk Hogan JD 2002* - You know, I'm a big Hogan fan. He's far from being the best wrestler ever, but the crowd is always into his matches and he knows very well how to play the crowd so his matches imo are almost always watchable. This one, on the hand... hmm, wasn't bad, but very simple match, and the botched Chokeslam/Single Leg Boston Crab didn't help either. **

*Triple H vs Underatker WM 27* - WTF was that.. :sad: When I was watching this match live, I was :mark: all over it. I had big exceptions coming into this match and everything felt big-time after HHH's awesome entrance but the match just never clicked for me. The match had a nice story with Hunter being the first guy ever to completely destroy Taker in WM but man the finishers in the middle were really unnecessary. Felt like Rock/Cena tbh. Still, it wasn't terrible or anything, just disappointing for me. ***.

Yeah.. not the choices. I know.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Definitely make sure to check out Money in the Bank, Cal. Extreme Rules & Payback? Eh, take your time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looked up the MITB card. Turns out I watched the 2 ladder matches, neither were that good. Didn't bother with Henry/Cena after hearing bad things about it which made part of me die inside because HENRY + Cena should have been a MOTYC .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MITB 13 :mark: dolph/adr II, henry/cena and whc mitb

henry/cena is a top 10 match this year, I swear I wish ppl saw what me and Rah see in it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Always wondered what Angle/Taker (Survivor Series 2000) was like, can't remember a thing from it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Looked up the MITB card. Turns out I watched the 2 ladder matches, neither were that good. Didn't bother with Henry/Cena after hearing bad things about it which made part of me die inside because HENRY + Cena should have been a MOTYC .


Huh, little surprised you didn't like the World Title one. That one seemed to be universally loved, but yeah the main event wasn't anything special at all. Be sure to check out Cena/Henry though because I (and plenty of others) thought it was really good. I gave it *** 3/4 and I believe Rah gave it the highest rating I've seen at **** 1/4. Dolph/ADR is another good affair from them as well. OH and I almost forgot the preshow match, Shield/Usos. They had the place going nuts, really fun match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Me and Rah have the same rating for it, yea the preshow tag is great as well, very very good show that is overshadowed by the next ppv


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MITB was a great show. Mark out moment reserved for the main event when Orton finally reinserted himself in the main event. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> KOTR 93: Bret/Perfect (*****) > Bret/Bam Bam (***1/2) > Bret/Razor (***).


Bret vs Perfect (*****) Bret vs Bam Bam (****1/4) Bret vs Razor (***3/4).

One of the all time great performances, you could even convince me of going 4 stars on Bret vs Razor. Lets see how many other wrestlers have ever had 3 matches easily worth 4 stars or more in one night. Bret just killed it, and his match with Curt was just a beautiful, beautiful, thing. One of my all time favorites. Such a classy, classy match. They called back to some of their old spots while still making it a completely different match than they had ever had before. If any 2 wrestlers ever had perfect chemistry, Bret and Curt did. Loved every match they ever had. And his Bam Bam match was almost at the same level. Simple stories told in the most perfect way always stand out to me. I almost feel like people considered Bret overrated for so long that now he's become a bit underrated by the people who focus too much on what he did in 1996-1997 minus the Stone Cold matches. 

Now I'm gonna have to go watch some Bret Hart, dammit all. Feelin some IYH Beware of Dog vs Davey Boy. But first, Vader vs Ric Flair at Starrcade. Heard a lot about this match and its the only high profile Vader match I have some how not seen. Weird.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree that MITB was a great show, but wow, all that Payback dislike. Dolph/ADR and a couple very fun undercard stuff (Triple Threat, Kaitlyn/AJ, Shield/RKNo, Sheamus/Sandow). C'mon now


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gett ready to be amazed, Naitch being naitch, and just a stellar match

I actually liked that tag match at payback, but except adr/dolph the rest isnt good, the crowd is AMAZING THOUGH, that punk entrance :mark:


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

The Rock vs Mankind (1999 RR, I Quit match) - *** 

Not much wrestling involved, your typical AE brawl, but this one had Rock with dat heel swag and Mankind taking all those chair shots to the head. I miss hearing the word ''ass'' in todays product.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

cjack knows what's up, Bret/Bam Bam is GREAT. Do you have the Dungeon Collection?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Payback is probably the worst PPV of the year. Other than Ziggler/Alberto, the rest of the show I can do without.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

CM BORK said:


> Not much wrestling involved, your typical AE brawl, but this one had Rock with dat heel swag and Mankind taking all those chair shots to the head. I miss hearing the word ''ass'' in todays product.


CM Punk says it (and 'bitch') what seems every weeek now 



Choke2Death said:


> Payback is probably the worst PPV of the year. Other than Ziggler/Alberto, the rest of the show I can do without.


No fucking way is it worse than Royal Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I miss the RR . How come they didn't do the event this year anyway?




THEY DIDN'T DO THE EVENT THIS YEAR AND NOBODY CAN TELL ME OTHERWISE. IT NEVER HAPPENED.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

ATF said:


> CM Punk says it (and 'bitch') what seems every weeek now


And that's why he's the GOAT.

unk5


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> No fucking way is it worse than Royal Rumble.


It easily is. The Rumble itself was solid and I don't get all the hate for it. The opening LMS had some cool spots and the main event was the end of the single most boring title reign ever, that alone gives it 10+ points.

Plus seeing people hate on the whole Rumble event is entertaining in itself. More so than watching Payback would be.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Payback, MITB, and SS were all good PPVs with multiple good matches. EC and Mania were not bad either. RR and ER were pitiful though.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> It easily is. The Rumble itself was solid and I don't get all the hate for it. The opening LMS had some cool spots and the main event was the end of the single most boring title reign ever, that alone gives it 10+ points.
> 
> Plus seeing people hate on the whole Rumble event is entertaining in itself. More so than watching Payback would be.


Why bash Punk in every single thread? And you think CM Punk is more boring than Boreton :lol. You think Orton is... exciting!? *shiver*

(He hates Payback because Orton was in a jobber tag match whilst Punk tore it down with Jericho in his hometown)

You still haven't answered my question about why your Orton fandom knows no bounds, other than ''I like his in ring work''. Oh and don't neg rep me for the 4th time because I like Punk and not Orton mkay?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Best of RAW and SD 2011 DVD review​*
*Disc 2​*
Match # 1: John Cena vs The Miz- singles match for the WWE title (RAW 5/2) 

Surprisingly a really good match. The crowd was really into it and this might be better than every single PPV match these two have ever had. There was a lot of good back and forth action here, and no Cole on commentary was awesome, coupled with some JR commentary as well :lol. The false finish felt unnecessary, but I guess it was the beginning to the breakup of the Miz and A-ry. I think it would have been better if they had the match restarted, but oh well, what do I know? *** 3/4* 

*Match # 2: Christian vs Randy Orton- singles match for the WHC( SD 5/6)*

This was the beginning of an amazing feud that would go all the way to Summerslam. While I think it was booked terribly, the match quality was top notch. Why Orton has a title shot here I don’t know, I guess they just wanted to boost ratings :lol. This match was very solid, it felt like a big time match, something you do not get on TV a lot. These guys have really good chemistry which was why this feud carried on for so long. I hated the result though. Why Christian was stripped of his WHC 5 days after he won it makes ZERO sense. There was no story behind this, and although the match was good, it wasn’t like he was robbed, because Orton won cleanly. Good match despite the lousy booking. *** ¼* 

*Match # 3: Sheamus vs Randy Orton- singles match for the WHC( SD 6/3)*

Christian is the referee here and I still don’t know why Sheamus is the guy getting the title shot. Smackdown 2011 must be the place where random ass people get a title shot. The commentators keep talking up Sheamus and saying he is the face of Smackdown even though he isn’t the champion, that makes no sense but alright, logic means nothing apparently :lol. This is a pretty standard bout throughout, nothing overly fancy because I have never felt these two have ever worked well together (Night after WM 29 :lol). Sheamus has the match won but Christian refuses to count. Orton then hits him with an RKO to retain. But then Christian turns heel by attacking Orton after the match which would continue this confusing but fun feud. ** ½* 

*Match # 4: Christian, R-Truth, and the Miz vs John Cena, Randy Orton, and Alex Riley- 6 man elimination tag match( RAW 6/20)*

This match was made by Teddy long even though hes the GM of SD but this is RAW but once again logic seems to be thrown out the window :lol. Christian and Orton start the match aand they are in the ring for a while. Riley is tagged in but then quickly eliminated when Miz does his finisher while the Ref was distracted and Christian then pins him. Cena eliminates Miz about 5-10 minutes later, this was just your standard pin as Cena AA’s Miz. It’s now 2 on 2 and its crazy how Truth is still in the match. Orton is tagged in and the pace quickens and truth is tagged in as well. Orton hits an RKO on Truth and then Christian hits a spear on Orton so now it is Cena vs Christian one on one. The ending comes a second or 2 after that when Cena makes Christian submit to the STF. And that is the end of the show. This was decent, and helped have multiple feuds in the ME of the night. *** ½* 

*Match # 5: Cody Rhodes vs Daniel Bryan( SD 6/25) *

This was during Cody Rhode’s awesome period when he had his mask and was cutting some awesome heel promos. Add in DB and I’m in for some fun. They both cut promos and Cody’s is hilarious as there in Hershey- PA and he talks about how this city makes people fat :lol. Ted Dibiase comes down to the ring and trys to aid Rhodes throughout the match. This match was pretty much your average TV match. There wasn’t anything exactly fancy that made this match special. DB was not putting on **** matches all the time at this point in his career like he is today. The match wasn’t BAD, but it could have been better. ***

*CM Punk Punk pipe bomb- *****

*Match # 6: Sin Cara vs Christian- singles match( SD 7/1)* 

This was when Sin Cara was new and we didn’t know his bones are about as strong as stunt glass :lol. This match sucked, Sin Cara sucks. This was just botch after botch. Such a boring match, for some reason I thought Sin Cara actually has talent, but that is some BULLSHIT. I hate sin Cara, I hate this match. *

This set was decent. Miz/Cena is the match from this set. Christian/Orton was good too.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Royal Rumble from this year was the last time I was truly excited for a PPV. I was excited for Summerslam as well but Royal Rumble just had a big match feel to it. Punk/Rock, despite the match qualities, was an enjoyable feud and one of the very few moments where the WWE title had that prestige feeling during Punk's reign. The opening promo between the two still remains one of the best promos this year. The build up to the Elimination chamber match wasn't as good


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Am I the only person that likes sin cara ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

CM BORK said:


> Why bash Punk in every single thread? And you think CM Punk is more boring than Boreton LMAO? You think Orton is... exciting!? *shiver*
> 
> ^
> 
> ...


Don't bother. He's one of the few rational Punk "haters". He's one of the good ones. Don't ruin the vibe of this thread.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Payback, MITB, and SS were all good PPVs with multiple good matches. EC and Mania were not bad either. RR and ER were pitiful though.


IMO it goes:

1. SummerSlam
2. MITB
3. Chamber
4. Extreme Rules
5. Wrestlemania
6. Royal Rumble
7. Payback



CM BORK said:


> Why bash Punk in every single thread? And you think CM Punk is more boring than Boreton LMAO. You think Orton is... exciting!? *shiver*
> 
> You still haven't answered my question about why your Orton fandom knows no bounds, other than ''I like his in ring work''. Oh and don't neg rep me for the 4th time mkay?


Keep your bullshit out of this thread, son. I have no interest in arguing with you. And I wont neg rep you if you improve the quality of your posts. Right now, they are ignore list worthy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

CM BORK said:


> Why bash Punk in every single thread? And you think CM Punk is more boring than Boreton :lol. You think Orton is... exciting!? *shiver*
> 
> (He hates Payback because Orton was in a jobber tag match whilst Punk tore it down with Jericho in his hometown)
> 
> You still haven't answered my question about why your Orton fandom knows no bounds, other than ''I like his in ring work''. Oh and don't neg rep me for the 4th time because I like Punk and not Orton mkay?



No need to bring senseless arguing in here. If you disagree state it rationally and don't take it personally if everyone doesn't love you're favorite wrestler. I love Punk for what it's worth I'm just saying no need to start arguments in here for no reason. C2D atleast has a good point when he dislikes something, even if I don't agree with everything. Atleast he admits Orton vs Foley is the GOAT Orton match and Benoit is the greatest worker. :clap

Anywho, to Redskins and Zep81. Just finished Flair vs Vader Starrcade 1993. Wow. I think I feel like the worlds biggest idiot for having a fucking VADER avatar and not seeing this match earlier. It was almost flawless. From Vader potatoeing the hell out of Flair, to Vaders control segments (Vader might be one of the GOATs for having interesting control segments, he just beats the shit out of you), to Flairs PHENOMENAL baby face performance, to Harley Race on the outside, really just everything. I LOVED this match. This is my new third favorite Vader match ever. And I would probably say this is my favorite Flair baby face performance ever (unless you count WM24). What a spectacle. I literally thought Vader had broken Flairs nose at one point, he was just bashing his skull in with those fists. Flair kept things interesting throughout, and when he finally made his come back in the end he did it in a way that only Flair can do, style and profile while coming off as a bad ass at the same time. My only gripe, and its a small small gripe, is i feel like Flair should have punished Vader a little more before catching him with the roll up. Again, small complaint, just seemed like it should take more to pin Vader. Can't say enough good things about this one, glad I finally saw it. Thanks again for uploading Zep and Skins for reccomeding it. ****1/2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> iwatchwrestling


:kobe

But yeah, I'll check out Bret/Bam Bam.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> It easily is. The Rumble itself was solid and I don't get all the hate for it. The opening LMS had some cool spots and the main event was the end of the single most boring title reign ever, that alone gives it 10+ points.
> 
> Plus seeing people hate on the whole Rumble event is entertaining in itself. More so than watching Payback would be.


C'mon C2D, I know you're an assumed Punk hater, but the worst and most boring title reign ever was 2003 Trips. Not even Evolution could save that trainwreck.

Rumble match was solid, indeed. Way better than 2012. Everything else is either fun but forgettable, or just horrendous (put bias aside and admit Rock/Punk was awful please)


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

LMS **
Tag title match **
Rumble ****
WWE title match ***1/2


Rumble match was better than the previous two.
Main event was a bit disappointing, actually every Rock match after his return sans the SS tag was disappointing.



redskins25 said:


> Am I the only person that likes sin cara ?


Also a fan but he's got to many things working against him.

The botches during his first matches, the suspension, the injury in 2011, he can't speak English.
I don't think they know what to do with the guy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Anywho, to Redskins and Zep81. Just finished Flair vs Vader Starrcade 1993. Wow. I think I feel like the worlds biggest idiot for having a fucking VADER avatar and not seeing this match earlier. It was almost flawless. From Vader potatoeing the hell out of Flair, to Vaders control segments (Vader might be one of the GOATs for having interesting control segments, he just beats the shit out of you), to Flairs PHENOMENAL baby face performance, to Harley Race on the outside, really just everything. I LOVED this match. This is my new third favorite Vader match ever. And I would probably say this is my favorite Flair baby face performance ever (unless you count WM24). What a spectacle. I literally thought Vader had broken Flairs nose at one point, he was just bashing his skull in with those fists. Flair kept things interesting throughout, and when he finally made his come back in the end he did it in a way that only Flair can do, style and profile while coming off as a bad ass at the same time. My only gripe, and its a small small gripe, is i feel like Flair should have punished Vader a little more before catching him with the roll up. Again, small complaint, just seemed like it should take more to pin Vader. Can't say enough good things about this one, glad I finally saw it. Thanks again for uploading Zep and Skins for reccomeding it. ****1/2


Glad you liked it, its the perfect David/Goliath, underdog type match, flair was getting killed in it by not or Vader, but Harley was getting some good shots it, I recommended you watch the flair promo on the match before it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> C'mon C2D, I know you're an assumed Punk hater, but the worst and most boring title reign ever was 2003 Trips. Not even Evolution could save that trainwreck.


I didn't live through the HHH reign, so the suffering effect was not the same. It does help that when I watched 2003, Smackdown was there to balance out the quality. In 2012, on the other hand, there was no fucking alternative! It's either you put up with excessive Punk TV time (in the second half) or you just turn it off altogether since there was nothing that was actually better.



> Rumble match was solid, indeed. Way better than 2012. Everything else is either fun but forgettable, or just horrendous (put bias aside and admit Rock/Punk was awful please)


It's comedy gold, I can't straight up bash it and say it sucks. But I did notice the flaws second time around, however instead of picking on it, every part kept making me laugh to the point I was in tears by the end when the shenanigans took place followed by the shot of Rock's mother applauding in the end. :lol

Their EC match despite being inferior gave me more memorable laughs, though. Punk spitting on The Rock then running around with a smirk as he kept beating on The Rock for several minutes. Despite my negative opinion, Punk is hilarious when he's a smug, smiling prick. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

here it is 






This why he is GOAT on the mic (prob in everything else) he can have the "stylin and profiln" promo and these


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> C'mon C2D, I know you're an assumed Punk hater, but the worst and most boring title reign ever was 2003 Trips. Not even Evolution could save that trainwreck.
> 
> Rumble match was solid, indeed. Way better than 2012. Everything else is either fun but forgettable, or just horrendous (put bias aside and admit Rock/Punk was awful please)


Evidently you have forgotten the Diesel title reign 

Triple H's 2003 was pretty rough but it wasn't as bad as Diesel's in my estimation. Although I stopped watching wrestling for 2003-2009 so maybe my opinion doesn't count. I have rewatched almost everything from 2003-2006 for Benoit/Eddie/Rey/Brock/Jericho/Foley purposes though, so it's not like I haven't seen it. I just wasn't there in the moment. I was there in the moment for Diesel's reign and believe me, it sucked. Seeing Bret take the title back at SS was such a relief back then.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena and Batista both had title reigns that were even worse in 2005.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

You guys forgot the "Age of Orton".


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> here it is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry for the double post I just saw, this. Man. :clap

That was awesome. Naitch was awesome. I loved these type of promos. Have you seen the one he cut on Carlito back stage? That might be a top 5-10 promo ever, just amazing amazing stuff. It gives you goosebumps. Foley will always be the best promo man for me, but damnit if Flair isn't right behind him. The guy could just suck you in and pump you up better than almost anyone. Loved this.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shockingly enough, the Age of Orton is better on rewatch than you may think. He's still not going to wow you with his promos, but the feuds were pretty good. He did get to work with great talent.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cena and Batista both had title reigns that were even worse in 2005.


Cena's reign was good. He was annoying at first with all the pandering but after the draft, it got better. His promos in the Jericho feud were his best.

Batista's reign was the opposite. Good when he was on Raw and feuding with Triple H but it became boring after the draft and that awful JBL feud.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2003 HHH is the worst World Title run of any wrestler in any major promotion. Not only was he complete garbage, but unlike Diesel he wasn't even someone another wrestler could carry.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> 2003 HHH is the worst World Title run of any wrestler in any major promotion. Not only was he complete garbage, but unlike Diesel he wasn't even someone another wrestler could carry.


Steiner says hello. Then suplexes you 30 times and falls over a couple.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> 2003 HHH is the worst World Title run of any wrestler in any major promotion. Not only was he complete garbage, but unlike Diesel he wasn't even someone another wrestler could carry.


As much as I love Jericho, and he's one of my favorites, his run as Undisputed Champ in 2003 sucked. It wasn't his fault either, he was just booked as Stephanie's whipping boy and he never got the chance to establish himself as a legit champion. He was screwed over, plain and simple.

Was it worse than 2003 Triple H? Ill let you decide.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I just witnessed Kanyon have an awesome match with Jerry Flynn. Who's betta than Kanyon? Now let's see if he can do the same with Barbarian.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

cjack828 said:


> As much as I love Jericho, and he's one of my favorites, his run as Undisputed Champ in 2003 sucked. It wasn't his fault either, he was just booked as Stephanie's whipping boy and he never got the chance to establish himself as a legit champion. He was screwed over, plain and simple.
> 
> Was it worse than 2003 Triple H? Ill let you decide.


Jericho didn't have a 2003 run, though.  He had the December 01-April 02 run, but that's only a few months. Trip's reign went forever and he never had a match anywhere near as good as Jericho's match with the Rock at the Royal Rumble. I don't think Jericho was nearly as bad as HHH. I wouldn't even compare the two, tbh.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Probably Orton's best match this year next


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

No arguing. You are ALL pretty!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What a valiant effort. Thank you Goldust.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Grrrr I don't have cable yet. How was the Orton/Goldie match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Pretty good match with Orton and Goldust. The great crowd helped too and Goldust still has it. Pretty good performance and Orton heeling it up was GOAT!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Grrrr I don't have cable yet. How was the Orton/Goldie match?


Good, the red hot crowd made the match though. It was good to hear ''you've still got it chants'' for Goldust and it was good to see Goldust get a good amount of offense in and look like a threat against Orton.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Nice. Saturday can't get here soon enough when I get cable in my new place. 

PLEASE tell me Orton punted Goldust??


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

goldust/orton was pretty good, reason being goldust got ALOT of offense in, great pacing just a tad to short


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

A lot of people will disagree but I think Goldust is Hall of Fame worthy. Fantastic character and his stuff as Dustin Rhodes is very underrated. I thought there was some heat when he got released from WWE but it looks like maybe that is in the past? Maybe a Hall of Fame spot is in the works?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Raw was really good tonight. Orton's really pleasing me as a heel now. They let him have his alone time before Trips came out. The exchange between Edge and Triple H was awesome, and you can't tell me there wasn't just a little bit of shooting going on. 

Punk/Heyman/Axel is whatever, but Heyman running tonight was hilarious. When Heyman slipped off the apron after Axel's match, I thought he was legit hurt. The he "slips" in the back and they take him to the trainer's room. Then he's in the ring with "torn ACL", then Punk's out and the fucker just tear's outta there. GOAT. :lmao

Orton/Goldust was really good. ***1/2, imo. Good heel work from Orton, and Goldust had nice offense. I don't know why WWE didn't feel like a Goldust/Cody program couldn't work before, because Goldie can certainly work a great match, and tonight we saw he can do it as a face. 

Bryan/Ambrose was fun, and Ambrose's selling is so wonderful. This was probably one of Ambrose's best singles matches, honestly, without much competition. 

The closing segment could have done without Big Show being such a sensitive bitch. They could have cut all that and just had Bryan dodge an Orton attack and nail him with the knee to the face.

Triple H is really starting to have some great angry speeches. His segment with Edge backstage was awesome. "My show. My town."

Fun go home to the PPV.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWE Payback

**Intercontinental Championship
*Wade Barrett (c) vs. The Miz vs. Curtis Axel - ** 1/2

*Divas Championship
*Kaitlyn (c) vs. AJ Lee - ** 3/4

*United States Championship
*Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Kane - * 1/4

*World Heavyweight Championship*
Dolph Ziggler (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio - *** 3/4

CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - DUD

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins (c) vs. Randy Orton & Daniel Bryan - ** 3/4

*WWE Championship - Three Stages of Hell 
*John Cena (c) vs. Ryback - ***


- I'm not gonna lie, I had a full detailed review all typed out and fucking Firefox crashed for no god damn reason, so I lost everything. I'm not retyping all of that so here's a short little rundown on each match, feel free to ask for me to go into more detail. Opening 3 way was decent, crowd oversold the fuck out of the nearfalls but the finish was extremely clever. 

- Kaitlyn/AJ was certainly one of the high points of the show. Really good Divas match that I actually cared about. Delivered in the ring and delivered with the story. One of the best diva encounters I can recall since the Beth Phoenix/Kelly Kelly series in the summer of 2011.

- Kane/Ambrose is a snoozefest. Skip.

- Del Rio/Ziggler is very good mainly because of Ziggler's incredible character work and his ability to garner sympathy from the crowd. I prefer my matches to have a little more in ring action, as this was just literally about 10 minutes of Ziggler getting kicked in the head repeatedly before attempting a comeback and getting kicked again, but character work and story driven matches are welcomed as well.

- Punk/Jericho disgusted me. Zero structure, terrible flow, and my god did it drag. Felt like about 45 minutes of nothing but Go 2 Sleeps, Walls of Jerichos, Codebreakers, and pointless shit. Recommendation to avoid.

- Tag Title match was solid all around but ultimately lost in the shuffle when it comes to Shield tag matches. They've had like 10 others that are better.  Suffered from shitty card placement but a fun finishing stretch as always.

- Ah what the hell, I'm not afraid to admit that I liked the main event. Had a lot of fun with the lumberjack match, also crazy to see Cena pinned clean in such a short amount of time. Tables match wasn't too special but seeing Ryback throw the steps all over the place was funny. Thought the way he reacted to losing that fall going into the Ambulance match was awesome. He once again outperformed Cena on two straight PPVs. 3rd fall was a fun garbage brawl, I can't really complain. Flip flopped with a bunch of matches between the ** 3/4 and *** mark on this one, not a bad show by any means but not a great one either. The real reason I bought it were the *BLU RAY* extras:

*Monday Night RAW – 10th June, 2013*:
- Triple H vs. Curtis Axel
- Randy Orton vs. Roman Reigns
- Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins
- John Cena & Ryback Face to Face
*SmackDown – 14th June, 2013*:
- Daniel Bryan distances himself from Kane
- Team Hell No & Randy Orton vs. The Shield
​


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Callamus said:


> Looked up the MITB card. Turns out I watched the 2 ladder matches, neither were that good. Didn't bother with Henry/Cena after hearing bad things about it which made part of me die inside because HENRY + Cena should have been a MOTYC .


I'm not quite sure why people trash it, but the only thing I've seen is people complaining about the STF finish (which, in the context of Henry's recent injury, made perfect sense). It's everything you'd expect from Henry and more. Sure, Cena doesn't deliver like he usually does in big-match scenarios but it's still awesome, regardless.

Watch it. Please?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Never did see Henry/Cena. Something happened and after watching the MITB matches that bookended the show I had no interest anything else.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Henry was good.

@*Jack Evans 187*: you're not the only one bro. I had some fun with Cena/Ryback too. Thought the first two falls were mostly enjoyable. Ambulance fall was terrible however and prevented it from being a good match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm hoping Bryan vs. Orton show some chemistry this Sunday. I'm guessing it'll be one of the worse PPVs this year, just because of the lack of big name matches, although the wrestling itself should be decent.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH is fucking GOAT. End of.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just watched Edge/Foley from Wrestlemania 22 and man I love that match. I have it at ****1/2 and was still marking out despite seeing it quite a few times before.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corey crapping on Punk vs Jericho from Payback = (Y) Match SUCKS.

RAW tonight was a pile of horsehit. Yet it held a good opening segment & two quality matches. One including GOLDUST. Which I didn't expect to see in 2013. But sooooo glad I did. Goldust, baby. The man.

Henry vs Cena from MITB is great. Can't see how someone would think it isn't.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Dark Church said:


> Just watched Edge/Foley from Wrestlemania 22 and man I love that match. I have it at ****1/2 and was still marking out despite seeing it quite a few times before.


Me too, definitely. I remember the night it happened. I :mark: every single time, especially at the thumbtacks/spear through the flaming table spots.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Goldust/Orton - ***3/4 Awesome match with a lot of back and forth action and a hot crowd

Thoughts on Goldust/Undertaker matches?


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Goldust vs Orton was surprisingly good, even though they didn't do much wrestling wise. Goldust's offense was pretty much hammering Orton with different kicks and punches and Orton did basically the same thing without the exception of a few actual wrestling moves. But in the end it did its job and told a story.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Goldust was probably ***1/2 or 3/4, the Toronto crowd was fucking awesome. You know, I'll be the one to say it: they might just be building up something big w/Dustin. Ambrose/Bryan was really good, even if it was somewhat of a carryjob. I'm kinda pumped up for NOC.

Punk/Jericho PB may have underdelievered, but a DUD rating? DAT SPOTFEST HATE unk :jericho


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alim said:


> Goldust/Orton - ***3/4 Awesome match with a lot of back and forth action and a hot crowd
> 
> Thoughts on Goldust/Undertaker matches?


Honestly never cared for the Undertaker/Goldust matches that much. Never did reach the level of greatness I thought they could. Was always disappointed with them .

Goldust avoiding Orton's powerslam leaving Orton to spin around like a twat was :lmao.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Orton/Goldust, the crowd made the match for me. Good to see that Goldie still has it. *** for bryan/Ambrose


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alim said:


> Goldust/Orton - ***3/4 Awesome match with a lot of back and forth action and a hot crowd
> 
> Thoughts on Goldust/Undertaker matches?


I liked them okay, but as Cal said they could have been better. Taker was not yet the worker he would come to be in the 2000s and they never got a great feel for each other. Not bad by any means though.

If you want to check out some good Dust matches check out one with Pillman from Raw and the Rumble match with Razor.

You all can shit on Punk/Jericho from Payback all you want but calling that match a straight up dud makes you seem like a hater. It was not THAT bad, and personally I actually enjoyed it. Nowhere near there Mania match, and not as good as their Street Fight, obviously everything is personal preference I just don't see how you can call it a DUD. Ambrose vs Kane was 10 times worse than that.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cena/Henry was one of the more underrated matches of the year I thought. I didn't like the ending (Henry tapping? WTF?) but it was still good. Hope it makes the best of the year ppv matches blu ray.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Glad more people hate Punk Vs Jericho. Makes me warm that even though Punk is beloved by alot of us, that we can still call his shitty work just the way it is. Just a half-assed effort to get a quick buck on PPV (OMG PUNK IN CHICAGO) with a lazy contest. That's the word I would use to describe that match; lazy. It's like Rock Vs Cena II in all honesty, except instead of two hated figures in the internet world of Rock & Cena, it was two darlings.

So what steals the show on Sunday? The card doesn't look promising in the slightest and from a work standpoint they all look pretty bad, but I have faith in The Shield (who will no doubt be facing PTP) that they can deliver. Titus Vs Reigns? YEAH.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'll let great ring-work slide, 'E's given us plenty to be happy with. The storylines now are what I'm loving. Everything beyond is just a bonus. That said, however, I don't even know what the NoC card is. I'm a couple weeks behind, I believe, and slowly sagging further away. After tomorrow I should be freed up and back to GREATNESS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not looking forward to Sunday's ppv at all tbh, nothing worth seeing, maybe Cesaro's match

Punk/Jericho is pretty bad, I just look at it as a badass entrance by Punk then the match ended


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I guess we all have a very different definition of what "Bad" is. I actually liked it when I saw it for the first time, but I went lower and lower on it the next two times I watched it, now I think it's just an average match. Not great, not bad. If two workers who weren't as beloved had that match I think people might soften up on it. It's just that it's Punk and Jericho so most people assume it will be great. When it's not great you feel disappointed. If Miz and Axel had that match with that crowd you would probably call it a career performance by them. Just my .02 cents.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, I guess I'm the only one left that loved all the Punk/Jericho PPV matches. Oh well, I don't have a problem with others disliking Payback; I can certainly see the flaws of the match. Still love that PPV though.

Ziggler/Ambrose, Shield Tag, Bryan/Orton, and Punk/Axel-Heyman should all be good, with Del Rio/RVD also giving us something solid. Can't see anything WOWing us, nor can I see any title changes for that matter. This is the clear definition of a filler PPV. The fuckery in Bryan/Orton should be really fun.

NoC takes place in Detroit. Guess who else resides there:










:jericho unk :bryan2


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Glad more people hate Punk Vs Jericho. Makes me warm that even though Punk is beloved by alot of us, that we can still call his shitty work just the way it is. Just a half-assed effort to get a quick buck on PPV (OMG PUNK IN CHICAGO) with a lazy contest. That's the word I would use to describe that match; lazy. It's like Rock Vs Cena II in all honesty, except instead of two hated figures in the internet world of Rock & Cena, it was two darlings.


I almost don't want to re-watch the TV version of Punk/Jericho because my opinion of it is sure to go down. I had a blast on the live experience in the arena. 

I still haven't watched Brock/Cena Extreme Rules on TV , but I don't think my love for it will fade. Such tremendous execution in such a physically intense contest. Arguably the best performances of both men's careers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even being very good, tbh I doubt that Bryan/Ambrose even falls in the Top 30 TV matches this year :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho - DUD
> 
> - Punk/Jericho disgusted me. Zero structure, terrible flow, and my god did it drag. Felt like about 45 minutes of nothing but Go 2 Sleeps, Walls of Jerichos, Codebreakers, and pointless shit. Recommendation to avoid.


(Y)

Glad more people are coming around to recognize how bad this match was. But somehow, I can't recognize its greatness because I'm a blind Punk hater.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Orton/Goldust was awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> (Y)
> 
> Glad more people are coming around to recognize how bad this match was. But somehow, I can't recognize its greatness because I'm a blind Punk hater.



I don't know if that was in reference to something I said or not but that's not at all what I meant. Most of the people on here that shit on that match LIKE Punk, I think they have such a low opinion of that match because they assume a Punk and Jericho match should be great. And it SHOULD. So when that match was merely mediocre, it's a huge disappointment. Oh well I'm dropping this I've wasted too much time talking about a match I don't even like all that much.

Just watched the WWE 2k14 panel for the first time. Man, that was som seriously entertaining stuff. Flair was so effing brilliant. Drunk Flair telling stories while JR attempts to try and stay on topic was just fabulous. And Bryan's one liner was hilarious. I do feel a little bad more people didn't get to hear from Bryan and Ziggler, but when Flair is on a roll like that you should just let it keep going. I Lol'd several times. I need to check out that Flair/Austin podcast now....


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How was Bryan/Ambrose for those who have seen it?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nah, don't worry. That wasn't aimed at you. Mainly the idiots outside of this thread.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There are people on this forum who think Bret/Shawn WM 12 >>>>> Bret/Austin SS '96.

Jesus, I'm losing faith in this place.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> I'll let great ring-work slide, 'E's given us plenty to be happy with. The storylines now are what I'm loving. Everything beyond is just a bonus. That said, however, I don't even know what the NoC card is. I'm a couple weeks behind, I believe, and slowly sagging further away. After tomorrow I should be freed up and back to GREATNESS.


Only storyline that's good is Danielson vs The World & subsequently the Rhodes family torture as an offshoot of that. Everything else going is bollocks. Oh boy, Kofi Kingston is gonna be a champion again by the way things are going...yeah, no. I'm not plenty happy with the overall product. That crap has been a hindrance for years. Other areas aren't impressing either. No form of interest.

Punk vs Heyman is an eh feud atm but both do constantly deliver. The path it's taken over the last week or so is just plain odd. Last good thing was the beatdown with the stick - which was good. The majority of the progam was quality but atm idk what the plan for it is. I really think the company is axing the Axel push. _(play on words, fun.)_ Why else would be made to look like a chump heading into PPV?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> There are people on this forum who think Bret/Shawn WM 12 >>>>> Bret/Austin SS '96.
> 
> Jesus, I'm losing faith in this place.



There are probably 10,000 matches in WWE history I prefer over Bret vs HBK IronMan. No I am not exaggerating. That match was the drizzling shits. I have no clue how casual fans can enjoy that dung heap. Ugh.

Watching Wild Pegasus vs El Samurai from Super Juniors 1995. It's rocking my world. I think I'll type a full review for it because this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen. Tempted to throw "the full 5" at it but ill need to rewatch it first. If anyone has not seen this, go now. Watch it. Benoit is just incredible.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep - worst match ever. It really kind of is.

I need something random to watch. I'll peruse youtube and see what comes up first. Sometimes these days are the best way to spend a morning.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch some Mortis. Or Barbarian.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody what did you think of orton/goldust ? didnt see your post on it

Yea Although 2013>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>2012 ( I could go 10 more pgs of >) The only storylines right now that are good is dbryan vs. the world and HHH reign of doom, everything besides that can fuck itself

I have to admit I'm enjoying HHH now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do love Mortis.

@skins - it was another good Orton match post-SummerSlam & Goldust hasn't missed a step. Still "the natural".


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm trying to think of good Orton matches this year, I dug the christian one last week , the rhodes one from months ago, and orton/bryan II


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything he's done post-SummerSlam I've liked. Before that it was only vs Rhodes once, vs Swagger once, vs Danielson on Smackdown & vs RVD that was worth seeing. Rest stunk. Things have seemed to finally go back to normal.

Been on the 2011 fix this last week so it's time for one of my favorite aspects of the year: Cody Rhodes. vs Mysterio on Smackdown - the WM rematch. JOY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I adore that rematch on smackdown its actually better to me than the mania which I love as well, but I like Rhodes III so yea. I will bat for 2011 to the end, from july until maybe dec, just great and must see TV


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Everything he's done post-SummerSlam I've liked. Before that it was only vs Rhodes once, vs Swagger once, vs Danielson on Smackdown & vs RVD that was worth seeing. Rest stunk. Things have seemed to finally go back to normal.
> 
> Been on the 2011 fix this last week so it's time for one of my favorite aspects of the year: Cody Rhodes. vs Mysterio on Smackdown - the WM rematch. JOY.



That match rules. It's on the Best of Raw Smackdown 2011 set I have and I have seen it several times. Those two didn't have a bad match.

If you want something grand to watch, check out Wild Pegasus vs El Samurai from Super Juniors 1995. I still have Benoit/Eddie Super Juniors 1996 and Benoit/Sasuke Super J ahead of it, but it literally might be his 3rd best match in Japan. Granted I haven't seen all of his stuff but good lord. I heard from a friend this match was dope but I had no idea it would be this great. So stiff and crisp, this was just about flawless. It ends in a 30 minute draw with Benoit hitting a ridiculous top rope power bomb for a 2 count before the bell sounds. Unbelievable. They just do not stop for 30 straight minutes, trading holds and just pounding on each other. I have only seem 2 other El Samurai matches, so I don't know if this guy gets a lot of respect from the general public. But man he kills it in the other two I've seen as well (vs liger and vs Ohtani). Def need to check some more out,


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I adore that rematch on smackdown its actually better to me than the mania which I love as well, but I like Rhodes III so yea. I will bat for 2011 to the end, from july until maybe dec, just great and must see TV


Doesn't top the glory that is WM for me, although it's still a really good match.



cjack828 said:


> That match rules. It's on the Best of Raw Smackdown 2011 set I have and I have seen it several times. Those two didn't have a bad match.
> 
> If you want something grand to watch, check out Wild Pegasus vs El Samurai from Super Juniors 1995. I still have Benoit/Eddie Super Juniors 1996 and Benoit/Sasuke Super J ahead of it, but it literally might be his 3rd best match in Japan. Granted I haven't seen all of his stuff but good lord. I heard from a friend this match was dope but I had no idea it would be this great. So stiff and crisp, this was just about flawless. It ends in a 30 minute draw with Benoit hitting a ridiculous top rope power bomb for a 2 count before the bell sounds. Unbelievable. They just do not stop for 30 straight minutes, trading holds and just pounding on each other. I have only seem 2 other El Samurai matches, so I don't know if this guy gets a lot of respect from the general public. But man he kills it in the other two I've seen as well (vs liger and vs Ohtani). Def need to check some more out,


El Samurai is cool beans, no doubt. I'll see if I can find that match online. Think the entire '95 event is on youtube. Almost sure it is. Decided to watch Samurai vs Kanemoto Super Juniors finals '97 atm. Those juniors and their glorious matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'd have 4/11 by a hair over mania, although mania is mania is I could give it the edge, and then ex 11


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Falls Count Anywhere match was the clear cut MOTN on Extreme Rules for me. It's a close race between that & WM, but I know Mania wins in the end. Rhodes winning made everything on that night feel worth it. And that show is horrendous as we all know.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Falls Count Anywhere match was the clear cut MOTN on Extreme Rules for me. It's a close race between that & WM, but I know Mania wins in the end. Rhodes winning made everything on that night feel worth it. And that show is horrendous as we all know.



Oh without a doubt FCA was MOTN at ER. Nothing else stood out at all other than LMS Orton vs Punk and that really doesn't compare. This is Rey Mysterio we are talking about, and Cody Rhodes is a quality guy. I wasn't a fan of his when he was with Legacy but he won me over completely during the "Dashing Cody Rhodes" and facial reconstruction days. He's one of the few mid card guys who always seems to deliver for me. 

I'd need to watch them both back to back to decide if Mania was better or not, last time I watched was about 6 months ago and I liked the LMS the best of the bunch.


Other than Mania/LMS with Rey, what do you think Rhodes best singles match is? I'm always looking for new gems to watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah, orton/punk mania is much better than ex 11 IMO


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rey/Cody WM is awesome :mark:. Didn't care much for their other matches tbh.

Not a fan of Punk/Orton WM at all, same for their ER match. MOTN for ER '11 for me was the ladder match between Christian and Del Rio. Loved it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rey/Cody Mania is (Y). That standing second rope suplex is :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey/Cody is up there with the likes of Jericho/Christian and Steiners/Headshrinkers as the most underrated WM gem ever. It's only underrecognized though because people crap all over WM 27's entire card bar HHH/Taker without knowing what they're talking about - and yes, there are that many people outside of this thread. Though I believe 90% of them are just saying that without actually having seen the PPV and copying the others just to 'sound cool'. Not that I defend that show, not at all and it did suck (Cole/Lawler and Miz/Cena were unexcusable), but it's not like it was THE undisputed worst WM ever, nor was it even a Top 5 worst WM ever (11, 9, 2, 4 and 15 for example were all incredibly worse).

Read rumours that the Orton/Goldie match might've just FINALLY bought Dustin the long awaited match with Cody at Mania 30 :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love when everyone join in on the dicussion 

can't forget about Rey awesome attire at that mania, I thought orton/punk mania was decent


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Man, Goldust/Cody at WM XXX would be awesome :mark:. Cody can stay gone for a little while to sell the angle and get married etc, then return and start knocking Dustin here and there for not being able to win him his job back despite being a veteran and all that shit. Depending on how long Cody is gone, they could probably bring Goldust back at the RR and really start things from there (with Cody obviously already being back before then... though fuck knows how they'll do it beyond HHH just randomly bringing him back out of the "goodness" of his heart and making Cody heel).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Rey/Cody is up there with the likes of Jericho/Christian and Steiners/Headshrinkers as the most underrated WM gem ever. It's only underrecognized though because people crap all over WM 27's entire card bar HHH/Taker without knowing what they're talking about - and yes, there are that many people outside of this thread. Though I believe 90% of them are just saying that without actually having seen the PPV and copying the others just to 'sound cool'. Not that I defend that show, not at all and it did suck (Cole/Lawler and Miz/Cena were unexcusable), but it's not like it was THE undisputed worst WM ever, nor was it even a Top 5 worst WM ever (11, 9, 2, 4 and 15 for example were all incredibly worse).
> 
> Read rumours that the Orton/Goldie match might've just FINALLY bought Dustin the long awaited match with Cody at Mania 30 :mark:


Truth. I didn't like Trips/Taker from Mania 27 tbh, I know you do though, still, it wasn't the worst Mania of all time, 11, 9, and 15 from my lifetime come to mind as being worse. I haven't seen all of 2 and 4 so I can't give an opinion on those. I think Mania 26 might be one of the most underrated Mania's out there. Loved it personally. HBK/Taker was godly, Jericho/Edge was great, Punk/Rey was great, Sheamus/Trips was good, MitB wasn't bad, Triple threat was ok. Damn good show,


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Nah, orton/punk mania is much better than ex 11 IMO


YES. Their Last Man Standing match was really poor. That whole PPV was disappointing. Only liked three matches. None were the ladder match & one had Kofi Kingston in it...thank you Sheamus.

WM 27 is Rhodes vs Mysterio, Edge vs Del Rio, & Punker vs Orton. Rest can burn in a fiery pit of despair.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 27 is Undertaker/HHH and Cody/Rey. Rest can burn in a fiery pit of go fuck yourself.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton/Punk, Cody/Rey and Edge/Del Rio are what WM27 is about. I'm a bit conflicted about Taker/HHH. On one hand, I don't wanna hate on it intensely because it's THE UNDERTAKER, on the other hand, it's an overrated finisher-fest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lolTakervsTrips from WM 27. Worst nonsense ever seen. One clothesline = DOWN FOR FIVE MINUTES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> lolTakervsTrips from WM 27. Worst nonsense ever seen. One clothesline = DOWN FOR FIVE MINUTES.


YOU JUST NO UNDERSTAND TEH WRASSLIN SYCOLOGY!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BLASPHEMY!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> Read rumours that the Orton/Goldie match might've just FINALLY bought Dustin the long awaited match with Cody at Mania 30 :mark:


Not lying, I've wanted Cody/Goldust at Mania the last two years, and really thought when he resurfaced at the Rumble this year that it would happen. Figured that ship had sailed also, but if it's still possible, then good. 

Cody/Rey at Mania is good, some nice exchanges. That vertical suplex from the second rope is pretty sweet. Crowd couldn't have cared less about it.

This was also when Michael Cole was at his peak as the unbearable-obnoxious heel.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I've really grown to loathe Trips/Taker from 27 despite loving it as it happened.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I definitely think WM27 is underrated on the whole. Outside of the main event and the abysmal Cole/Lawler shit, it't not a bad show at all. I marked hard for Rock at the beginning, come at me. The staredown with Austin later in the night was :mark:. Trips/Taker was GOAT, Edge/ADR...don't really remember much about it but I really like Rey/Cody and Orton/Punk. Those 3 matches and Rock at Mania for the first time in all those years was more than enough to make it a pretty good show. I also love the stage and we got some epic entrances that night too. I like Mania 27 and it's far and away better than Mania 29. Granted, I've yet to see Mania 29 since the live viewing but I have a feeling it's only going to come off worse than the first time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 27 - 12

Edge Vs Alberto Del Rio - **1/2 - 1
Cody Rhodes Vs Rey Mysterio - **** - 5
The Corre Vs The Big Show, Kane, Santino Marella & Kofi Kingston - NO - -1
CM Punk Vs Randy Orton - **1/2 - 1
Jerry Lawler Vs Michael Cole - NO - -1
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****3/4 - 8
John Morrison, Trish Stratus & Snookie Vs LayCool & Dolph Ziggler - NO - -1
The Miz Vs John Cena - 1/4* - 0

Complete 2 match card and NOTHING else. But they were both so good it put the entire event over a bunch of others on the CAL SCALE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Cody/Rey at Mania is good, some nice exchanges. That vertical suplex from the second rope is pretty sweet. Crowd couldn't have cared less about it.


even though the crowd was pro-Rhodes in the match? This is why I hate massive dome shows sometimes.

lol @ WM 27 being underrated. God no. All the bullshit with Rock in the beginning & end made it not even feel like a WM. Then five matches being flat out DUDs. Two being the premiere matches on the night in Taker vs Trips & Cena vs Miz. Ugh. Kill me. Show was a struggle to finish.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like it, deal with it. Both Orton/Punk and Rey/Cody are ***3/4 for me. I don't know what the hell I have Taker/Trips rated at any more. That thing changes with every viewing. I haven't watched it in a long time though and I'm planning on keeping it that way so that when I do I can go in relatively fresh and hopefully reach a final verdict. And yeah, THE PEOPLE'S WRASSLEMANIA I SAY YABBA YOU SAY DABBA YABBA DABBA YABBA DABBA.

:rock4


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Crowd might have cared about it, but I couldn't hear them.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Del Rio/Edge - ***1/2
Rhodes/Mysterio - ****
8 person tag - N/A
Orton/Punk - ***1/2
Trips/Taker - ***
6 person tag - N/A
Lawler/Cole - MINUS FIVE STARS
Miz/Cena - MINUS THREE STARS


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Those entrances :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ Miz's entrance deserves a shout too. Well, at least the promo package they made for him. 'You Can Hate Me Now' was the perfect choice. 

There's a cool little extra on the Best PPV 2011 where Rhodes is interviewed about the match with Rey and he says that while he was doing the second rope suplex he looked out and saw all the camera flashes and kind of marked out to himself because it was Wrestlemania in his home state and he was in there with Rey Mysterio. I thought that was a cool little story.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

As utter shite at WM 27 is, the 2 good matches manage to bring it above *15* other WM events :|

WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
WrestleMania IV - 1
WrestleMania XV - 2
WrestleMania V - 2
WrestleMania VI - 4.5
WrestleMania 1 - 4.5
WrestleMania IX - 5
WrestleMania XI - 6
WrestleMania III - 6.5
WrestleMania XIV - 7
WrestleMania XII - 7.5
WrestleMania VIII - 8.5
WrestleMania 2000 - 10
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
WrestleMania X - 11.5

WrestleMania 27 - 12

:|


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

28 is my favourite Mania of the last few years. Love that thing.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I completely forgot edge/adr, but I'm on the liking hhh/taker II side, cody/rey was awesome and punk/viper was not too shabby


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM 29 worse than 27? Imo it goes in Iron Sheik's voice: *fackin' bullshate*! The 1st hour (bar Henry/Ryback, which still had the positive of being Henry's 1st ever 1-on-1 WM win) was the most fun in years, Alberto/Weed was OK, Taker/Punk and Trips/Bork ruled. Fuck Rawk/Cena II hard, but even *that* was still better than 1/2 of the WM 27 card tbh.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've restarted the 25 Greatest Rivalries on Netflix about 3 times now, maybe I'll finish it this time. Kind of bugged that Trips/Foley was 25, but whatever. Tully/Magnum TA feud :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Deciding which one was better between WM27 and WM29 seems like a painful decision. I can't see myself going through those two shows ever again, but off memory, WM29 was better.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

WM 29 had Shield/Faces and Punk/Taker. That's all I really look back at it as. As for 27, I'm still willing to watch Rhodes/Rey, Del Rio/Edge and Orton/Punk.

Lawler/Cole is literally satan.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I try not to speak out too much on Mania 29 because I have only seen it the one time but I distinctly remember feeling apathetic towards just about everything that happened. There weren't even any backstage segments. It just didn't feel like Wrestlemania at all to me. I really need to watch it again because there's always the chance I'm judging it unfairly but for now 27 > 29. While 27 has a ton of shit, it also has 3 great matches while 29 has 1.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hell No/Black-Show-Off is so underappreciated. That match was more fun than riding a rollercoaster while watching Remy LaCroix's hula hooping non-stop in 4D.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

When I watched HHH V Taker WM 27 live I thought it was amazing and finding my self turning to my friend who was watching and saying "THIS IS WHAT PRO GRAPS IS ALL ABOUT!"

Now i find it hard to finish. It is the definition of a finisher fest and when they're not hitting finishers, they're doing contrived spots, and when they're not doing either of those they're just fucking laying on the floor forever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

INCOMING TAKER/HHH MANIA 27 IS GOAT/SHIT DISCUSSION IN 3...2...1...


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

29 had a better main event than 27, Taker's match w/ Punk was better than his with HHH at 27, Decent opener, and of course BROCK. 

On the other hand. 27 was Austin's last Mania appearance, Rock/Austin staredown (fuck the haters) , Cody/Rey, Orton/Punk, Edge/ Del Rio were all decent bouts. 

Both had some positives, some negatives. But Im with Starbuck on this one. 

27 > 29 by a small margin.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok let's just stop what seems to be the millionth "WM 27 vs 29 Which is worse" discussion.

How ironic... there are discussions on 17 vs 19 for which is the GOAT Mania, and 27 vs 29 is the opposite :lmao

How about a WM 22 vs 24 discussion? 22 was arguably the most fun Mania, 24 was arguably the most flawlessly executed.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rock/Cena from this year is a **3/4 match for me, while Cena/Miz from WM27 is a * match. Taker/Punk is ****1/2 and Taker/HHH from 27 is ****. Oh and Punk/Orton from 27 was a great match, ***1/2, just like Brock/HHH from 29. BUt WM27, hadn't Bryan&The Shield, so 29 is better


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I hadn't posted in this thread for a bit, I peeped back in and everybody was talking about the same stuff :lol. Dem loop discussions. 

24 is GOAT for the epic JBL trash can head smash on Finlay combined with MONEY MAYWEATHER and his entrance. Love that match with Show too. It's good fun.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

25 is the best, with that Cena GOAt entrance


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Btw, Punk/Vince from Raw 10/8/12 = (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Vince is legit amazing stuff. Goosebumps even when I watch it now. 

:mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I hadn't posted in this thread for a bit, I peeped back in and everybody was talking about the same stuff :lol. Dem loop discussions.


I swear to you we havent talked about hhh/taker's, hhh/lesnar, cena/lesnar, and GOATs whatever for about a month tbh

Is there anything worst than a 20 min timed online open book quiz


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets keep it that way too. 

Feeling like I'm in the mood for some huge grudge match atm. Austin vs Rock stuff is leading the vote. Specifically Backlash '99. Been a while since I watched it. Stunner on the table from the camera view. The BEST.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I may watch their mania 19 match since Ive never seen any of them, which one do they beat the shit out of each other ? and which is shorter


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

This is probably my favourite Austin stunner to the Rock.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Lets keep it that way too.
> 
> Feeling like I'm in the mood for some huge grudge match atm. Austin vs Rock stuff is leading the vote. Specifically Backlash '99. Been a while since I watched it. Stunner on the table from the camera view. The BEST.


Rock turns the camera and sees Austin standing in front of it. "OH SHIT!" :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Length: WM 15 < WM 19 < WM 17

beating the shit out of each other is basically all of em, but WM 17 is the fever pitched 28 minute electric war. Which sounds glorious on paper, but it drags a bit which is why I don't find it a personal classic. Still good though. WM 19 is other worldly. 

Backlash '99 is a rocking brawl too. Managed to be one of those attitude era wars that stuck out as opposed to blending with all the rest. Austin managed to avoid that negative until he worked vs Trips. Their chemistry never popped, but it sure did vs Rocky.

---------

haha, Rock being ultra cocky taking the camera only to be owned was such a great spot. That's the fun of those days right there. Without a doubt.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> . Austin managed to avoid that negative until he worked vs Trips. Their chemistry never popped, but it sure did vs Rocky.


Austin/Trips (No Way Out 2001) is now still a guilty pleasure of mine


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

19 it is


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Could we return to the WM 22 vs 24 discussion plz?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Austin/Trips (No Way Out 2001) is now still a guilty pleasure of mine


Fair enough. We all have those. I'd say Undertaker vs Austin from SummerSlam '98 is one of mine even though it's another main event brawl and Austin was loopy for a bit. Still like it. Oh and definitely Rock vs Trips vs Angle from SummerSlam '00. I legit love it, but apparently that's a minority opinion.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

According to you Cody, I guess hbk/hart svs 97 is one of mine


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another minority opinion by myself. Most seem to like Hart vs Michaels from SSeries '97. But it's always what you make of it.

Like should I love the gimmick battle royal from WM 17 as much as I do? Don't care - it's awesome. :hayley3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Fair enough. We all have those. I'd say Undertaker vs Austin from SummerSlam '98 is one of mine even though it's another main event brawl and Austin was loopy for a bit. Still like it. Oh and definitely Rock vs Trips vs Angle from SummerSlam '00. I legit love it, but apparently that's a minority opinion.


Glad to see love for Trips/Rock/Angle. It had been hated on here not long ago. I of course enjoy it, but understand why folks might not like it. 

Really couldn't get into Austin/Taker at SS 98.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Sat down and saw No Mercy 08 finally 

Hardy vs Henry was a good opener for the ECW title. Fast paced with a good finish. Good start to the show! ***1/4.

Candice Michelle vs Beth Phoenix was decent too. Never knew Santino was a heel. **.

Kane vs Mysterio could of been a great match but had a horrible finish with Kane getting himself DQ'ed. This match lacked a lot of drama as it was only 3rd match of the night and you could tell Rey wasn't losing his mask. Could of been a lot better, and the match was really getting good before the finish. **1/2.

Batista vs JBL I didn't have high hopes for but thankfully it was kept short. Solid sprint **

Undertaker vs Big Show was a great big man match, prefer NWO 03 over it but was still great. Not sure whether i like the finish or not, it was different but a bit of an anti climax really. ***1/2.

Jeff Hardy vs Triple H was fantastic (and I don't want to sound like a broken record here) but i'm not sure about the finish. I can see it as HHH using his last bit of energy to get a desperate pinfall but he had just took 2 finishers! Everything else built to a frantic finish and I can understand the finish to an extent so ill give it ****.

The ladder match between Y2J and HBK was awesome! Love it. Everything you would expect from these two with some creative spots and a match that flowed excellently. The spot where Jericho fell off the ladder could of been brutal. The ending was really cool too. ****1/2.

This show really kicked into gear during the last three matches. Each one better than the previous. No Mercy 02 and No Mercy 08 are too close to call in the battle for best No Mercy event.

Thoughts on the show? Hopefully Cyber Sunday is decent, but I'm not a big fan of that concept.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Cyber Sunday is decent, but I'm not a big fan of that concept.


Well, that has the awesome Taker/Show (i think it's CS )


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Glad to see love for Trips/Rock/Angle. It had been hated on here not long ago. I of course enjoy it, but understand why folks might not like it.
> 
> Really couldn't get into Austin/Taker at SS 98.


It was one of those matches where a lot of the zany aspects about it worked for me. I like wild matches when done well & that was one of em.

Understandable. How many good matches did those two have vs each other? Not much. Not much at all. Which goes back to that point I made - revelation, really - of how the main event players in WWF & WWE history didn't have that swell of chemistry with each other. Undertaker vs Austin should be some uber amazing series of matches. Yet a lot of the time they were far, far from it. Fully Loaded '99 seems to be the only universal pick of the bunch. Then there is legit one of the most frustrating matches I've ever seen in the encounter from Backlash '02. Austin was a real piece of trash in it. Clearly tanking and acting horribly obnoxious. I wanted to punch him right square in the face for being a numpty during it. Oof, was he irritating. He should have quit before that match happened.

<3 ya Steve, but that match wasn't you.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No Mercy seems to be one of the more consistent B-shows. 2002 and 2008 both have great main matches, 2006, 2003 and 2005 are both very good too. 2007 has a classic main event, 2003 was pretty good too. Don't know about 99-01 since I haven't watched them but 04 seems to be the only "miss" among them.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Another minority opinion by myself. Most seem to like Hart vs Michaels from SSeries '97. But it's always what you make of it.
> 
> Like should I love the gimmick battle royal from WM 17 as much as I do? Don't care - it's awesome. :hayley3


Yes.

Yes you should. Now should I count Big Show/Kane/Raven from the same event as a ****+ match? Fuck no, I do though because its AMAZING.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Easily my most watched match from that event. Hardcore Championship is the personal MOTN far and away. I even memorized the commentary during it. OH shit, I'm watching this now. Done deal. So. Much. FUN.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I may watch [Rock & Austin's] mania 19 match since Ive never seen any of them, which one do they beat the shit out of each other ? and which is shorter


You really should watch their WM 17 match. Lots of fun, the atmosphere was insane, their character work was great, and the ending & aftermath leave a huge impression.

**** 1/2, imo.

I've seen some people rank it ***** and HayleySabin's reasoning is why I wouldn't go full throttle, but it's certainly still great and keeps your attention the whole way through, IMO.

Oh, and yes, of course, they beat the shit out of each other.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin & Vince union = best part of the WM 17 main event. Epic.

2001 is like the year for the Hardcore championship. Where it lacked in the Crash Holly moments, it gained in some of the best matches produced for the gold. Top it off with Undertaker vs RVD at Vengeance. Oh mah goodness. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> No Mercy seems to be one of the more consistent B-shows. 2002 and 2008 both have great main matches, 2006, 2003 and 2005 are both very good too. 2007 has a classic main event, 2003 was pretty good too. Don't know about 99-01 since I haven't watched them but 04 seems to be the only "miss" among them.


You mentioned 03 twice :

1999 wasn't all terrible tbh, and 2001 was uber awesome. 2000 had two very good MEs too, and tbh 2004 is *far* from a miss: Kidman/London kicked major ass, JBL/Taker was excellent too, and some other quite fun stuff in Angle/Show, Spike/Nunzio, the 6-Person Tag and Eddie/Luther (shockingly for the latter).

The UK 1999 one is the only bad one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like No Mercy 2004. It's a fun show with the only real poor match coming from Cena vs Booker. Who have no chemistry to save their life. Don't think the main event is great - far from it - but it's watchable. A slugfest with some memorable spots at the end. Finish is bleh, but how else was Undertaker really going to lose?

Eddie vs Luther is legit a sleeper bout. Eddie worked his magic there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I miss the hardcore title division . Steve Blackman in 2000 was awesome. Then 01 we got guys like Show and Kane battling like monsters from a Godzilla movie over it while little Raven was trying to sneak around and steal it from them. RVD got it kinda like a "hey, you was in ECW and popular so have it" way but did well, then UNDERTAKER took it and mauled everyone before The Cock ruined it and handed it to Maven . Wish they'd bring it back. Though 3MB in the hardcore division would probably be the 2013 equivalent of the Mean Street Posse and that would suck for McIntyre (unless McIntyre went all fucking MCINTYRE on the title and became a vicious cunt again).


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah every No Mercy is pretty gold from what I've seen bar 04 which is hard to sit through (boring). Probably because the star power in 04 on SD wasn't brilliant. Saying that, brand only PPV's made SD seem as important as RAW. 

I still don't know why they added ECW and got rid of brand PPV's . In 07 and 08 you had a lot of star power that could of made them work. Would be against brand only PPV's now though considering they struggle to put a show on with the whole roster nowadays.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Kidman/London is such an underrated feud and match. It started with a real life injury but they did well with playing off how Kidman was afraid of executing his own finisher which proved costly to the team (sucks that they gave the belt to the most random team ever; Dupree and Suzuki). Loved Kidman's work on London's ribs during the match and a nice piece of storytelling with Kidman once again showing hesitancy when attempting the SSP. Tazz and Michael Cole's commentary sold the aftermath of the match effectively. (Y)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JBL/Taker imo did have its dull bits but it worked as a "Taker beating up to death a heel" type of match.

I forgot to mention Kenzo & Dupree/RVD & Rey was pretty good too.

Iirc Cena/Booker only hit the mark with the 2005 tournament semi-finals match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao 3MB in the hardcore division. Sounds oddly perfect. Although replace McIntyre with like Hawkins so Drew can be DREW.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Heath Slater celebrating a hardcore title win on Superstars like he just won the WWE title in the main event of WM just seems... right .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> You mentioned 03 twice :


I added it to 05/06 and then forgot to remove the sentence that mentioned it the second time.

I wasn't really feeling 04 since I wasn't into it very much. JBL/Taker is solid and I don't really remember anything else. Cena and Booker had one of their less bad matches but that doesn't mean anything since their only remotely good match was in 2005.

And lol @ Kenzo Suzuki and Dupree being a tag team. :lmao Talk about random.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

slater/vader is one of the best matches of 2012


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Speaking of SD brand PPVs...

Best No Way Out - 2006 (Angle v Taker)
Best Judgment Day - 2005 (JBL v Cena)
Best Great American Bash - 2006 I guess (looking back most were poor! But Taker v Show was fun)
Best No Mercy - 2006 (All round fun show)
Best Armageddon - 2006 (Ladder match!)

Just shows how good 06 was  

And the best SD PPV is Vengeance 03 for me (that went to RAW on 04 for some reason)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Heath Slater celebrating a hardcore title win on Superstars like he just won the WWE title in the main event of WM just seems... right .


Nothing has ever seemed more fitting.

------------

Tajiri vs Regal time. It isn't for the Hardcore championship match, but it's from 2001 and I love it. WWF was awesome for giving Tajiri a million championships in this year. He really had a new piece of gold each month.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Nothing has ever seemed more fitting.
> 
> ------------
> 
> *Tajiri vs Regal* time. It isn't for the Hardcore championship match, but it's from 2001 and I love it. WWF was awesome for giving Tajiri a million championships in this year. He really had a new piece of gold each month.


That the PPV match? If so, :mark: at how super fun it is given the time it gets. Tajiri/Rhyno PPV match in late 01 (month before or after the Regal match I think?) is awesome too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> That the PPV match? If so, :mark: at how super fun it is given the time it gets. Tajiri/Rhyno PPV match in late 01 (month before or after the Regal match I think?) is awesome too.


Oh yeah. It's only 2:58 but it feels like a war. I approach it as if it's like a shoot fight. Tajiri's martial arts style vs Regal's european work - fight to the death. Tajiri being hung up in the ropes only to have Regal pull at his legs choking him is such a stellar spot.

Tajiri vs Rhyno in 2001 _(both TV & PPV)_ are fabulous. Explosive chemistry in a short span.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> That the PPV match? If so, :mark: at how super fun it is given the time it gets. Tajiri/Rhyno PPV match in late 01 (month before or after the Regal match I think?) is awesome too.


:mark: for someone mentioning CM Punk vs Vince. I LOVED that. The dueling kendo sticks, Vince taking the title and standing guard over it, everything. That is probably second only to Vince vs Hulk WM19 for my favorite Vince encounter. I need to rewatch his cage match with Austin to be sure though. Man that would be a fun project to do, go back and watch and score every Vince match. I can even skip Vince vs Bret because the imagine of that atrocity has been burned in my skull for forever!

I feel like a loser for having not seen Tajiri vs Regal HC championship match. I need to get on that shit, like ASAP.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> slater/vader is one of the best matches of 2012


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> then UNDERTAKER took it and mauled everyone before The Cock ruined it and handed it to Maven


Dwayne went to Miami not South Carolina.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

scsa/rock wm 19 ****1/4- too lazy and busy to do a write up, can I just saw I tried watching hbk/y2j from the same show, I HATE that match now, probably my least favorite big time hbk match, its so "flashy" but its so "workrate" heavy I cant stand it idk, I'm shocked Meltzer didnt give it a *****


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just saw an interview with Del Rio. Said Vince told him that he and Christian stole the show at Summerslam. Interesting.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

IDK about show stealing but ADR/Christian was damn good. Would have been MOTN at a lot of PPVs. Excited for Summerslam to come out on blu ray. I picked up the mid south set tonight. DiBiase v Flair alone is :mark :mark worthy.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

In the mood for some Hitman


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> In the mood for some Hitman



Check out Bret vs Bam Bam KotR if you haven't seen it, or Bret vs Owen White Plains NY. Or you can always go with Bret vs Perfect from MSG 89'. Or Bret vs Steamboat Boston Garden 86'.

P.s. HBK vs Jericho at Mania 19 is by far their best match I don't care what you say . Jericho said its his favorite match of his entire career, I don't understand the hate it gets. Yes it's flashy but it still tells a damn good story and nothing is done really that doesn't make sense. Plus last time I check flashy is a good thing in wrestling, atleast for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched the majority of Judgment Day 2001. I'll finish it _(Undertaker vs Austin)_ later. But yeah, Angle vs Benoit is straight up horrible. Like most of their matches. Rest of the show was joyous times. Love me that Tag Team Turmoil. So much action & how the importance of the tag team title shot was. Great stuff. Was more emphasis on an already hot division. Kane vs Trips is still great & the hardcore championship is a blast, of course.

WWF 2001 :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

may check out that bam bam one later, I'm watching Hart.bros CAGE, its pretty good so far

HBK/Jericho wm 19 I dont like because it too much. I think it was a point where Shawn tried make a OMGZ classic how of it and obsess over work rate instead of working a normal match, I prefer all their 08 matches to it and they have a pretty good raw 10 match as well


I really liked christian/del rio but the two main events are supeior and punk/lesnar stole the show


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't come close to calling Michaels vs Jericho a workrate heavy match. It was more about the story than any moves, actually.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Bret/Owen in the cage is so brilliant. ****3/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

How about a best and worst year of the AE era, the RE era, and the PG era? 

AE

Best: 2000
worst: 1998

Re era
: best: 2004
Worst: 2007

PG era

Best: 2009
Worst: 2012

Scrounging youtube right now for some good shit


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bret vs Owen in the cage is tremendous. I'd say my favorite match from those two would probably be the Action Zone match in White Plains. Fact most of their matches were stellar is the bright point here. You could pick nearly any one and they're all in the same bracket.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I tried to watch it again after rock/scsa this afternoon but took it off after the headlocks exchange by hbk/jerchio, maybe I'll watch it in full later

I know for certain I hate their raw 03 match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Best/Worst years of each era:

AE

Best: 2000
worst: 2001

Re era
: best: 2006
Worst: Tough one... would be 2003 if SD wasn't so fucking awesome... I guess 2007?

PG era

Best: 2013 (awesome year so far)
Worst: Eh... not sure. I could make a case for any year outside of 2013 for why it's the worst of the PG era (2009-2012).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't remember their RAW 2003 match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Decided on Foley/Orton backlash :mark:

Heard its awesome, one last match then I'm going to sleep because I am exhausted


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Best years/worst years:

Attitude Era: I haven't watched it all so can't really judge yet. Almost finished with 1997 though. 

Ruthless Aggression Era: Watched the entire era as it happened so from what I remember, 2004 was the best. 2007 was the year that I officially took a break from wrestling so that's the worst

PG Era: 2008 was the best PG year but I think 2013 will overtake it. Rock, Bryan and Orton all three of my favourites getting WWE title runs was an awesome moment personally and then you have other great stuff like Punk/Lesnar, Cena/Henry and the on going Corporation angle which can only get better (hopefully). 2012 was the worst. After Extreme Rules, things just got worse. At least with 2009, you had Smackdown to watch so that was enjoyable.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Quick plug: picked up Chris Jerichos 2011 book yesterday. It is amazing so far, just some really funny stuff. I have Mick Foleys 1999 book coming in the mail


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best wrestling book is The Death of WCW. Absolutely hilarious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't know about Attitude Era since I haven't watched them yet but best year for RA is 2004 and worst is 2007. If 07 doesn't count, I guess 2006 but that's not a slight like you'd think. Best year in PG era is probably 2008 or 2013 and worst is 2012, comfortably ahead of every other year.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Glad others realized that 2012 outside of ER and Mania sucked ASS


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really. Much like any year it had it's shit & then had it's good stuff. TLC is a good show pardon the bad Cena vs Ziggler main event. Among some others. Sheamus > WM 28 on the majority when you think about it. Sheamus was godly in 2012. Plus Punker vs Danielson how many times. Yeah. It's fine.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Forgot about TLC, but outside of those three PPV's the year sucked. SS sucked, RR sucked, SVS sucked. MITB, No way out, and NOC were meh. Over the limit made me want to puke when I watched it. Tv matches sucked as well. looking at the match list for best of RAW and SD says it all :lol.

BTW- Orton/foley backlash- **** 1/2*, really solid. just brutal haha. too tired to write a review. But its probably in my top 5 Orton matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm probably the biggest proponent of 2012. Seemed like we got a really good match every week and both Punk and Sheamus put on in-ring clinics every time they stepped in the ring. However, as we are going through 2013, all I can think of is that 2012 could have been SO much better. 2013 is doing almost everything that 2012 couldn't do correctly. The one outright difference though is that 2012 had better PPVs, but equally bad main events for the most part. 2012 also had the GOAT giving us the GOAT title reign, but even he can't stop :dazzler :rollins :reigns :ambrose

Did anything good come out of 2010? I guess Superstars was good, and Bryan and Mysterio gave us some good stuff. Nothing else was really that good. Yup, that's probably the worst year of the PG Era. 2005-2007 was just a horrid time for the RA Era, but I'll put 2005 above most other years even if it is disgustingly overrated. 1998 and 1999 aren't really that good of years. WCW honestly gave us better stuff in 1998 and 1999 was just a horrible year for wrestling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Over The Limit isn't even that bad. It's the shit main event that puts the damper on folks minds. I have fun with that show. It's easy to watch and no harm done. Matches do deliver. 

That set had a lot of poor choices on it. I could have easily made a better set than what WWE put out. Sheamus vs Tensai x2 & Punk vs Big Show post-MITB (iirc) are awesome matches that were nowhere to be found. Big mistake. The year was occupied by all of the same people, but they more than delivered every time. I don't have any disinct hate for the year anymore than I do for others. Like I said, each have their crap & their good. 

Did that set even put Cena vs Danielson on it? I don't remember. If not, then wow. Screw it.

2010 is fucking awesome.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anybody have those matches that they watch and it goes up and down every time ? well HBK/Jericho is kinda for me, just watched it in FULL

Believe it or not it use to be one of my favorite matches and I had it at *****, but on the recent rewatch I didnt like it as the reasons I listed in my previous posts, well I watched it again and I see both sides. I like it for what it was a spectacle, fun match but I'm not :mark: over it as I was before.

As for pg years
2011
2013 so far
2010
2009



2012


Otl 12 is not that bad of a ppv, a :mark: wwe champ match and MOTY runner up in and I remember a fun ziggler/swag kofi/truth match ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really for me. It's always a case of a match I watched a long time ago and I see it now and it doesn't hold up or it's the opposite. Never continues to go back and forth. Luckily I have nearly a bite on damn near everything these days. It's quite nice.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Bret/Owen in the cage is so brilliant. ****3/4


Agreed. One of my fave cage matches ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, skins, that tag match is a lot of fun. I'm pretty big on it myself.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy crap this is so much fun. The Barbarian/Duggan match was pretty fun considering who were wrestling here, but if you can, skip to 5:30 to watch MENG smack the bejeezus out of every single thing with blood cells running through their body. Holy crap, I can't believe I once considered Meng/Haku horrible. Dude is too damn fun to watch. I need some more MENG (and maybe Barbarian as well. Heard good things about him, but still not convinced.)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't really like Michaels/Jericho at Mania 19, but it's not bad at all. Thought Michaels kind of sucked in it, though. Solid overall.

the :mark: smiley is back !!!!!!! :mark: :mark:


EDIT - the Barbarian (the not-John Nord one) is OK. He works better with Meng b/c it's a tag setting (and Meng), and is a passable brick wall. The Warlord blows, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Use that smiley to put over MENG _(and Barbarian)_ right now. :mark:

funnyfaces go watch all the Faces of Fear tag matches you can find from 1997. All their PPV ones are fantastic. And not to snub him, watch the Meng vs Benoit matches from PPV too. b/c if you haven't seen them & the way you love Benoit, you'll pass out from excitement. The Slamboree one especially.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Already seen and love the Meng/Benoit matches. For the longest time, those were the matches that I loved the most out of Meng. Well that and the match that :edge had with Meng. I've been Yeah1993ing some of Meng's stuff these past few weeks as well as Mortis, and I have fallen in love with both of them. I especially love Meng's stuff when he plays a face because of how much energy and charisma he oozes whenever he pummels someone. He's not someone that I am interested in seeing in a long match setting, but that is perfectly fine with me at this point which is something I cannot say about myself years ago. I used to think that guys that could not wrestle a long match should automatically be shunned for their short fun bursts, but I've finally come to terms that longer =/= better.

Gonna go watch the Faces of Fear tags from 97/98. I did see a couple Faces of Fear tags that you pimped out, Paramore fan (namely the Mortis/Wrath one). Really enjoyed what I saw. The one that I loved the most was the Jericho/Eddie tag match. It might be one of my favorite tag matches I have seen. Heck, I think Jericho/Eddie might be my all-time favorite tag team. If we go by them STAR RATINGS, I have each and every one of their matches as a team at four stars. The two best heels in the world teaming together - what can go wrong?

From my recent impressions regarding Barbarian, he isn't a guy that I am very interested in when it comes to singles matches, but he works so well with Meng. I do love it when he goes crazy and starts rapidly punching people in the corner and he can kick a mean boot. I also just watched a match he had with Eddie Guerrero where I was actually more impressed by him than Eddie. I don't know if I'll get to that point where I'll go out of my way to watch him though like I probably will with Meng and Mortis.

Fuck The Warlord. One of the worst wrestlers I have ever seen. Makes me want to go as far as to watch Kenzo Suzuki wrestle.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

To the Punk/Jericho Payback talk that I missed this morning which was sparked off of my own review, yeah I definitely think it's a DUD. There was no point whatsoever in the match where I was happy to be watching it or I wanted to see more. The first several minutes are nothing but filler, nothing of any importance happening whatsoever (at a pretty slow pace too). I think Punk starts to work Jericho's arm but we can see that went nowhere. Even the announcers are having trouble coming up with things to say, calling it "a long feeling out process". Then the back half of the match is just terrible. You think they climax with the first GTS, then it's back to square one after a kickout and we've reverted back to regular moves and eventually Punk's normal suicide dive he hits far earlier into the match. Then he goes for another springboard that he normally wouldn't at that stage into the match and gets caught with a codebreaker. Then there's more Walls of Jerichos and probably another codebreaker into two more GTS's, it was just painful to watch honestly. Structure and flow were nonexistent, and I'm not a hater of Punk or Jericho in any way. Punk's one of my favorite guys on the roster clearly. Awful match.



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Bret/Owen in the cage is so brilliant. ****3/4


One of my all time favorites. *****

--------------------

So I went into two different Walmarts today looking for the Mid South Blu Ray. Neither one of those motherfuckers had it and they had no idea what I was even talking about. "um yeah if we don't have a tag out for it we can't scan it and see if we have any, you want this one?" No jackass I wanted the blu ray. Guess I'm goin to Best Buy sometime. :no:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've been watching Jericho's Breaking the Code DVD for the past hour. The documentary part has been awesome. Sucks that they leave out everything involving Benoit since him and Jericho had some mad chemistry but at least Jericho never shies away from praising their work in his books!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Already seen and love the Meng/Benoit matches. For the longest time, those were the matches that I loved the most out of Meng. Well that and the match that :edge had with Meng. I've been Yeah1993ing some of Meng's stuff these past few weeks as well as Mortis, and I have fallen in love with both of them. I especially love Meng's stuff when he plays a face because of how much energy and charisma he oozes whenever he pummels someone. He's not someone that I am interested in seeing in a long match setting, but that is perfectly fine with me at this point which is something I cannot say about myself years ago. I used to think that guys that could not wrestle a long match should automatically be shunned for their short fun bursts, but I've finally come to terms that longer =/= better.
> 
> Gonna go watch the Faces of Fear tags from 97/98. I did see a couple Faces of Fear tags that you pimped out, Paramore fan (namely the Mortis/Wrath one). Really enjoyed what I saw. The one that I loved the most was the Jericho/Eddie tag match. It might be one of my favorite tag matches I have seen. Heck, I think Jericho/Eddie might be my all-time favorite tag team. If we go by them STAR RATINGS, I have each and every one of their matches as a team at four stars. The two best heels in the world teaming together - what can go wrong?
> 
> ...


Meng in long or short is irrelevant to me. I know he'll bring the goods no matter the duration. Duration of a match isn't a big focus for me either. Most of the time a big gripe with matches in wrestling for me is some go way too long. Especially with junk on the indies.

Goodness, Faces of Fear vs Vandenberg's Monsters is something else. It was legit 100% what I expected it could be. Very rarely do matches ever live up to that potential. Sooooo glad it did. I shouldn't have been too surprised. All four killed it in '97. The Nitro tag vs Guerrero & Jericho goes hand in hand. That's loved by so many and glad to know it. While it isn't Meng, but you know what match is good? Mortis vs Glacier in a "Martial Arts" match at Uncensored '97. The weird gimmick doesn't even come into play and it's just a good match on the whole. So many underrated workers out there it isn't funny. Glacier isn't really has bad at all points of his career like some assume. Same with Ernest freaking Miller. Going heel killed that dude.

I've actually seen a few Kenzo Suzuki matches in Japan that were fun so Kenzo can win. Won't lie that I'll probably find a Warlord match lying around that I'll really enjoy. I'm pro-big dudes clubberin. Always. It's why I'm a Nasty Boys fan. _(most underrated tag team ever, I swear to science.)_


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just watched Magnum TA/Tully Blanchard I Quit inside the cage, and man. This is clearly the culmination of a feud between these two and they just want to kill each other. The ending with a wooden chair being tossed in and Tully smashing it to get a piece out and go after Magnum's eye, only to have Magnum reverse it and just shove it into Tully's head is fucking brutal.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Watching The Smackdown MITB match from this year for the 100th time. Great match.

I just watched the one from last year, too. Tensai's spot with Sin Cara & Ziggler still kill me. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steel Cage I Quit match is arguably the ideal perfect match. Showing it to people and saying "that is wrestling perfection" is a surefire compliment to how great that match is.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nothing beats a good ol' fashioned 1980s NWA cage match. Those folks always did it right, whether it was Tully/Magnum or Youngblood-Steamboat/Slaughter-Kernodle. There are very few from the WWE that I really like unfortunately. I don't know what it is about the WWE, but their cage matches do not feel like I'm watching two guys that hate each other. Instead, it might as well be a rock climbing competition. Can't forget about all those times where cage matches turn into forced epics. 

Curse that Cena/Big Show NWO 2012 cage match. I would even put Cena/Laurinaitis above it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

25 Greatest Rivalries resumed.

Some nice ones here. Tully/Magnum TA, Dusty/Flair, Von Erichs/Free Birds, Austin/Rock. Austin's promo at the Slammy's when he didn't win Rookie of the Year :lmao Rock calling Austin, "Steven" :lol 

Now I'm bugged. For the Dusty/Flair feud, they had Shawn Michaels talking, which was cool. Then for the Von Erichs/Free Birds they had Flair, which was also cool. Then for Austin/Rock, FUCKING MIZ is talking about the feud. They couldn't have had Jim Ross or Mick Foley, guys who were actually there when the feud was happening. I hate how they just have to put Miz in every documentary.

LOL Big Show talking about Hogan/Andre. "Hogan's peacocking." :lol


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I was so disappointed when Miz was talking for the Rock/Austin feud. It made no sense and was their way of forcing Miz into something again.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Miz to TNA please


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

The crowd burying Sheamus's spot on Bryan on top of the ladder. :lol "NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!".


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Jesus christ, Bryan's comeback in the match where he puts Sheamus through the ladder and wrecks shop makes me mark out EVERY TIME.

:bryan :yes :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Curse that Cena/Big Show NWO 2012 cage match. I would even put Cena/Laurinaitis above it.


Lets not be hasty now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My hate for that match is even greater than yours for Bret/Shawn WM XII, Undertaker/HHH WM XXVII, all the Benoit/Angle matches, and the worst possible Konnan match combined.

EDIT: Oh, can't forget about your dislike for Malenko/Benoit Hog Wild and Benoit/Bret on Nitro. Put that in too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those two Benoit matches aren't very intense. They're just boring & not as good as the should be for who's involved. The rest are spot on. They can DIE.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Miz to TNA please


I would fully support this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can think of about five other wrestlers who need to fuck off first over Miz. Miz can be a heel again thus making the hate instantly justified. Miz a babyface...baffling.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When it comes to the ratio of talent to match quality, nothing is more disappointing than Rude/Chono and Muta/Chono from HH and Starrcade 92.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I actually like Muta vs Chono.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Not excited AT ALL for NOC.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think it'll be a nice in-ring show (hopefully), but my excitement for NoC is nothing compared to how excited I was for the card at SummerSlam. Hopefully Battleground, HIAC, and Survivor Series deliver, because TLC usually does, and then it's RTWM :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I think it'll be a nice in-ring show (hopefully), but my excitement for NoC is nothing compared to how excited I was for the card at SummerSlam. Hopefully Battleground, HIAC, and Survivor Series deliver, because TLC usually does, and then it's Cena and Sheamus's return :mark:


Fixed it for you.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Even though I despise Sheamus's character and am not a huge fan of Cena's, they're both great in-ring workers, so...yeah, I'm just trying to think of the positives


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I mentioned in another thread that I actually kind of miss Sheamus. He has grown on me. Not a fan but not a hater and yes a workhorse in the ring. 

As for Cena I'm glad he is off for a bit (not happy he is hurt) cuz I think it will be good for his character and good for the whole roster long term.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Currently watching WM 29. Was a great show, and I will probably never fully understand the hate for it (aside from marks getting pissed off over Cena's victory).

Anyone remember Lesnar doing Taker's taunt after he brought in the steel steps into the ring? :mark: I kinda thought that was a sign. If they do face each other, mark my words that they will include that in the promo for the match.

Edit: Yeah, I forgot why I died over HHH/Lesnar from WM 29 the way I did. Was a pretty good match, but because of the crowd, plus the spots where HHH did the kimura lock and the constant steel step stuff really felt like they dragged on and it just seemed awkward and slightly dull at parts.

I laughed at the part where after Lesnar hit HBK, you could hear a bit in the background (if you have great headphones), HHH kept repeating "spinebuster, spinebuster, spinebuster" and Lesnar turned around. :lol He might've said it like 8 times until he got Brock's attention.
--
*Anyway, kinda've a on-the-spot rating of the WM 29 card:*

Randy Orton, Sheamus, & The Big Show vs. The Shield (6-Man Tag Team Match): *6/10*
Ryback vs. Mark Henry: *3/10*
Team Hell No vs. Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston: *5/10*
Chris Jericho vs. Fandango: *4/10*
Alberto Del Rio vs. Jack Swagger: *6/10*
The Undertaker vs. CM Punk: *10/10*
Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar: *7/10*
The Rock vs. John Cena: *6/10*

Overall: 7/10 - I'm sure my opinion will change in time but for now it's a 7. In terms of match quality, it's a 6 but overall (as in how much I enjoyed it, how invested I was, etc etc), it's definitely a 7, but truthfully I could live without ever buying it on DVD.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Eulonzo said:


> Currently watching WM 29. Was a great show, and I will probably never fully understand the hate for it (aside from marks getting pissed off over Cena's victory).
> 
> Anyone remember Lesnar doing Taker's taunt after he brought in the steel steps into the ring? :mark: I kinda thought that was a sign. If they do face each other, mark my words that they will include that in the promo for the match.


It was because for a HUGE show, your biggest and grandest, it lacked a bit of stuff like backstage fun, in ring promos (besides Zeb) and was beyond predictable. But it was still imo one of the top 3 shows this year. Summer Slam being number 1


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I just had absolutely zero interest in two of the three main events, and the one I was looking forward to punk2 vs. :taker obviously) wasn't built up as well as it could've been, although I did like the build-up for the most part.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah I respect your opinion, swagger_ROCKS.  I just edited that post and put in my ratings for the match card.

But like I said, in terms of match quality, just a 6.. I'm sure it'll maybe be a 5 down the road but for now, a 6. I was jut really invested into the show and had a great time, so that's why it's a 7 overall. But it definitely should've had some more backstage stuff like it usually does every year.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

PGSucks said:


> I just had absolutely zero interest in two of the three main events, and the one I was looking forward to punk2 vs. :taker obviously) wasn't built up as well as it could've been, although I did like the build-up for the most part.


I didn't mind Cena vs Rock 2 because Rock is my all time fave and whatever role he's in, I'll take, and I still had that "Cena may turn heel mentality". The one match I really didn't need to see was HHH vs Lesnar. I honestly don't think HHH needed that win back, but whatever, and Henry is just not what he used to be, so I could have done without that as well. The rest was fine imo.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Yeah, I didn't care for the HHH/Lesnar #2. I liked the match, though. But the feud, eh, not really.

But let's be honest, we all saw it coming a mile away.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> I didn't mind Cena vs Rock 2 because Rock is my all time fave and whatever role he's in, I'll take, and I still had that "Cena may turn heel mentality". The one match I really didn't need to see was HHH vs Lesnar. I honestly don't think HHH needed that win back, but whatever, and Henry is just not what he used to be, so I could have done without that as well. The rest was fine imo.


I'm one of the few left who still loves The Rock, so I wanted him to wrestle at Mania (I still want him to wrestle at Mania 30), but I didn't want him to give Cena his win back and then ride off into the sunset. I agree about HHH vs. Lesnar. I don't even remember anything about their feud going into Mania because I was so uninterested


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just watched everything from NOC 2012 except the WWE Title Match.

I had a'lot of fun with the tag titles because it was a gloried squash match  & I absolutely love how Kane just falls on Kofi to win :lmao

Shocker alert, Ceasaro had a great match with Ryder, this match was as awesome as I could hope with some gnarly uppercuts ofcourse.

Orton/Ziggler was so terrible! it started off pertty good then it just came a screeching hault out of nowhere, it literally felt like I was watching that craptastic Undertaker/Triple H match from WM 27, they hit one move and then they lay there for 5 mins ugggggggggggg, atleast the RKO was pretty cool

Sheamus/Del Rio was :clap I have to say i really enjoyed all 3 of there matches & this match was no different, plus Sheamus almost kicked off Del Rio's head with the Brogue Kick.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I enjoyed the Rio/Sheamus series as well. Their first match seemed a bit like they weren't on the same page, but the other 2 were solid imo.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Del Rio really found his niche with Sheamus & then he got stuck with boring ass Orton :no: but Del Rio has been so good in 2013.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This thread is what so, so many YT'ers and IWC would call Bizarro World :lmao

General consensous out of here is that JBL's title reign was boring filler. Here, everybody loves it.
General consensous out of here is that both ECW ONS shows were all-time amazing. Not here.
General consensous out of here is that WWF 1999 was one of the GOAT years, and here it's hated to oblivion.
General consensous out of here is that Punk/Jericho PB was an undisputed ****1/2 classic. Here it gets DUD's.

I could come up with more all day :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

General consensus is that Kurt Angle was a great wrestler in his prime. Here, he had no prime :angle2

JK...kind of


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

YT is a dangerous place.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Not excited AT ALL for NOC.


Literally no desire to watch any of them.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting fully loaded 2000. Probabaly gonna take a while for me to get a review up


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

smitty915 said:


> Starting fully loaded 2000. Probabaly gonna take a while for me to get a review up


:mark: one of my all time fave PPV's


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Basically have to echo the same thoughts on NOC 2012 as my brother shared. Orton vs Dolph was just as pitiful on the rewatch unfortunately. Snazzy finish can't go without a mention.

Cesaro vs Ryder or Sheamus vs Del Rio. Not sure which I liked more as both were really, really good. Wait and see if Punker vs Cena can snag the MOTN spot. Show isn't too grand on the whole, but at least there could be three matches I thought were great & one fun tag team championship bout via the antics of Hell No. Intercontinental was a match of two halves - bad first & solid second. Finish was rather poor though with the mask and all. Didn't need that bit.

Restarting the 2012 project along with the 2008 & 2011 ones. I'll probably make 2010 & 2009 while I'm at it too. But for now, it's the first three. Thinking I do Main Event first b/c it's only about 13 shows in total and not very many matches I have to slam through b/c I know what I liked from last year. Already did the entire Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars series. Turns out their best match was on PPV - HIAC. thought it was the long third match, but that one is only solid and didn't quite make a grand use of their time. I still like it, but HIAC was the tops here. Solid matches all around. Nothing wrong with that. Second match would have been better if not for Rhodes injury.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> :mark: one of my all time fave PPV's


Looks like the definition of a stacked card :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which event? too lazy to go back...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Fully Loaded 2000


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Fully Loaded 2000


That event is the Attitude Era personified in one night. Epic. Still, Backlash was better :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If only I didn't have to go to school in 30 min. I would watch this all day


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Fully Loaded 2000 is a tremendous show. Even if the Last Man Standing match is overrated, it's still a complete event.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Senn FL00 3 days ago:

Trish&test&Albert/Lita&Hardy.B- ***1/4
Taz/Al Snow- DUD
Saturn/Eddie- ***3/4
Edge&Christian/A.P.A- **
Rikinshi/Val Venis- ***
Angle/Taker- *
HHH/Jericho- ****1/4
Rock/Benoit- ****1/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

finished the first match, have the same score as srdjan. Will get some more done tonight


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Considering the WWE considers Orton a legend by this point, shouldn't he kill himself? rton2


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Wow I just got that joke. :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd pay full price for a PPV to see that 8*D.

Fully Loaded 2000... God I can't wait to get to that. Just need to finish Survivor Series. Still :lmao. Then Armageddon. No Way Out. Insurexxion. Rebellion. Backlash. Judgment Day. And THEN I'll watch Fully Loaded. Save what could be the best till last, even if Backlash is probably THE 2000 PPV. But I'm just so excited for Fully Loaded lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

http://www.kayfabenews.com/orton-realizes-he-has-become-a-legend-kills-self/ :lmao

Insurrextion and Armageddon are bleh imo, but you loved KOTR so... yeah :lol

EDIT: I just found out Paul Heyman's birthday is today... he was born on *9/11*/65 :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That's a bummer birthday :lol

Sad day today though, RIP to all of those who died 12 years ago


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Guilty pleasure in Undertaker vs. Show & A-Train at WMXIX. Love it, really fun and fast paced. Nice underestimation story too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Survivor Series 2000*

YOU WERE ALL PUPPETS. YOU WERE ALL FOOLS. YOU WERE ALL LIVING A LIE.


*T&A & Trish Stratus Vs Steve Blackman, Crash Holly & Molly Holly*

Mmmmm TRISH FAP FAP and MOLLY FAP FAP. Oh yeah, Molly was hot. 

Dammit, why did Blackman have to be in this match? I WANT CRAZY HARDCORE TITLE MATCHES DAMMIT.

So this is happening because after the APA were taken out by T&A, they left Crash in charge... only for T&A(PA) to kick him out and take over the office. Crash is defending the honour of the APA and Blackman is randomly helping him lol.

MOLLY RIGHT ON TOP OF ALBERT. NEVER THOUGHT I'D SAY THAT! :lmao JR is awesome.

So this was ok. Kinda fun, but a complete nothing match tbh. MOLLY AND TRISH'S TITS. That's about it.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


LOL. Angle, Edge & Christian segment. E&C are making excuses for not wanting to help him tonight in his match against THE UNDERTAKER. Angle seems oddly confident. Hmmm... I smell a screwjob...

Lo Down can't get into the building. Good.


*Road Dogg, K-Kwik, Billy Gunn & Chyna Vs The Radicals - Survivor Series Elimination Match*

3 former DX members together again :mark:. And then K-Truth or R-Kwik or whatever his name is happens to be there. Hmmm.... *K* - *K*wi*K*. KKK. :lmao

Cool to see Road Dogg & Billy Gunn as the last 2 guys on their team when it comes down to a 3 on 2 situation. Shame nothing ever really came of DX kicking Gunn out after NWO when he got injured and lost the tag belts. I seem to remember a HEAT match with Billy and X-Pac, maybe Road Dogg too, but that was it. No real redemption or anything.

Billy Gunn ends up in a 3 on 1 situation. He loses in the end. Meh. Didn't think much to this at all, which given some of the talent involved is a shame.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Kane Vs Chris Jericho*

So this feud started over coffee. So the match HAS to be good.

:lmao how fucking sloppy is Jericho at times *cough*most of his career*cough*? Nearly killed himself in a Lesnar-Extreme Rules 2012-over the ropes way about 2 minutes into the match. That was after he dropkicked Kane over the ropes... except he almost completely missed Kane :lmao.

GORY SPECIAL by Kane! Except he holds Jericho BY HIS FUCKING FACE. Awesome. Because Kane hates Jericho's face. That's what this feud is all about. That and coffee. Stephanie had taken over creative about a month earlier. Doesn't show... .

Fuck me sideways and call me Mary (but only on weekends, that's when I dress up you see), HOW FUCKING STRONG IS KANE? I know he's always been considered one of the strongest on the roster, and I think even Undertaker said something like that in the It's My Yard doc... but damn. There are a couple of times in the match where he absolutely POWERS up Jericho for a couple of spots when Jericho doesn't seem to be in a good position to help out. Kane damn near presses Jericho overhead WITH ONE ARM at one point on the outside.

Jericho, aside from being a sloppy cunt (reminds me of a girl I knew... what?), is pretty good in this too. He holds his own during a couple of brawling sequences in convincing ways, and I love his comeback. Catches Kane coming off the ropes with a dropkick, catches a big boot from kick and sweeps the legs out and then builds his offence from there as we go into a finish.

The big red coffee monster wins in the end with a sweet chokeslam. Good match, wasn't expecting much from anything on this show aside from Rock/Rikishi and Undertaker/Angle, so this was a nice surprise.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*William Regal Vs Hardcore Holly - WWF European Championship Match*

ANDY IS GOD sign in the crowd. So he was always awesome, huh?

:lmao Holly takes what might be the slowest "shoulder to the ringpost" spot ever. Guess he is nervous due to only recently returning from his broken arm.

Some nice STIFFNESS in this. One spot where Holly blasts Regal in the face a couple of times, so Regal just decks him with an elbow to the face. Holly stops punching.

Lawler doesn't think we have BBQ sauce in the UK. Moron. We just don't have the weather for BBQ's! 

Regal tries to destroy Holly's bad arm, and in the end Holly gets pissed off and blasts Regal with the European title belt and gets DQ'd. Eh match. Crowd shit on it, and it's a little dull too.

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


TRISH FAP FAP TITS FAP FAP. She is throwing herself at Angle, but he thinks she's offering him the services of T&A.


*Rikishi Vs The Rock*

I DID IT, FOR THE ROCK. BUT REALLY, I DID IT FOR HHH. BECAUSE I WASN'T GETTING OVER ENOUGH AS A HEEL.

I'M A BAAAAD MAN.

HHH drove a car past Rock 6 days ago... and Rikishi was hanging out of the window with a sledgehammer and smashed it into Rock's gut. Then Rock wrestled BENOIT on SD and Rikishi crushed him with a Bonzai drop. Guy's ribs gotta be FUCKED, right? 10 seconds into the match and Rock hits a Samoan Drop on RIKISHI as if nothing happened. WHAT A CUNT.

Rock finally sells the fucking ribs once Rikishi starts to maul them. SLEDGEHAMMER comes out but doesn't get used and instead Rikishi gets a Rock Bottom. Thankfully Rock doesn't get the win (yet... *sigh) because he's too hurt and the referee was taken out on the outside and takes his time getting his arse back in the ring. Fuck me, Rikishi was down for about a minute after the Rock Bottom and still barely kicked out at 2. Would have been a bigger injustice than Booker T at WM 19 if he lost to that. Then again Booker didn't deserve to win at WM 19 so fuck how long it took HHH to cover him which wasn't even that long anyway just a bunch of cunts make it out to be 5 minutes or some shit. Get a life you twats. Booker T sucks.

Fuck me, Rikishi hits a Samoan Drop then does that sit down splash thingy and Rock kicked out at 2 with no time between the move and the cover. Yet a Rock Bottom to a perfectly healthy Rikishi nearly ended the match after like 2 minutes of resting between the move and the pin? BUUUUULLLSHIT.

Yes! Shove your fat arse in Rock's face! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH RIKISHI IS THE GOAT. THIS IS AWESOME CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP THIS IS AWESOME CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP.

Lol, Rock didn't like that. He EXPLODES out of the corner with a clothesline and Rikishi does the awesome inside out bump off it :mark:. I always told you Rock was obsessed with men's arses. Rikishi shoves his in Rock's face and BAM, guy is making a comeback. Energised him. LOL. 

Damn lol, Rikishi really sells the People's Elbow. Guy is having a spasm on the mat. So that ends the match. This... this wasn't as good as I remembered. Still solid shit and whatnot, but eh, not quite what I remembered.

Best part is after the match, where Rikishi fucking murders Rock with numerous Bonzai Drops.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Ivory Vs Lita - WWF Women's Championship*

LITA :mark: FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

I stopped masturbating for like 2 seconds and saw about 10 botches in a row :lmao. Just one long sequence that was botched every step of the way :lmao. Then Ivory gets in control and things go smoothly :lmao. Sorry Lita, I love ya, but damn you botched the shit out of EVERYTHING in this one.

LITA gets busted open . Poor Lita. I'LL SAVE YOU.

Moonsault, Steven Richards pulls Ivory out of the ring and Lita is laid flat on the mat (uhhh... yey?).

LITA TAKES HER TOP OFF.

Moonsault and Ivory... does something (nobody knows if she got the knees up or got the title belt up lol) and LITA loses . Replay shows it was a mixture of both.

If it wasn't for LITA this would be the worst thing ever.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Jericho attacks Kane!!! THEY AIN'T DONE WITH THEIR FEUD!!! NOBODY GETS OVER SPILT COFFEE IN JUST ONE MATCH!


*Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker - WWF Championship Match*

IT'S TIME FOR THE GOLDEN BOY TO TAKE HIS LAST RIDE.

Man, Undertaker is playing MIND GAMES right from the start by having a prolonged entrance (LOL considering what he does now I know). His music keeps playing while he's in the ring and he grabs the WWF title from the referee and poses with it, and doesn't even take his coat off. He's making Angle, THE CHAMPION, wait until he's ready, because he's the fucking DEAD MAN and this is his 10th year since he debuted and he's the fucking MAN.

Angle refuses to get in the ring even after the music stops because, well, Undertaker is fired up and would destroy him from the get go. So Undertaker brings in a chair, throws it to Angle and lets him BLAST HIM in the back before the bell. Angle thinks he got the better end of the deal... until Undertaker fires back and shows Angle that not even a fucking STEEL CHAIR can even the odds for him.

Moment where Angle realises the chair didn't mean shit is awesome. He's been punching Undertaker in the FACE repeatedly since the chair shot, and actually tires himself out from all the punching... only to look up and see Undertaker stand up straight and tell him to bring it. AWESOME. Move aside, LITA, I'm fapping to this instead!!! 

:lmao Angle is tremendous at some of his reactions in this. The one I just mentioned, plus when Undertaker is chasing him down you can hear him scream "YOU GET AWAY FROM ME!", and then when Undertaker catches him on the outside to smash his back into the ring post he's screaming "oh god no" and looks like he's about to cry :lmao. Goofy Angle who could go in the ring without spamming moves was great.

Whole story of this match seems to be that Undertaker is the 10 year veteran and he just HAS Angle's number. Kurt keeps fighting but Undertaker keeps putting him down. So Angle has to resort to other measures, such as an Edge & Christian run in that costs Undertaker TWO separate victories. The legs of Undertaker keep coming into play too, as Angle already knows they are the weak point as they were a major factor in their first PPV match back at Fully Loaded (FULLY LOADED :mark: ).

Dammit, got all excited for the Tombstone but they just teased me . 

Angle goes under the ring, Undertaker brings him back out and hits a Last Ride, ref counts 1... ref counts 2... ref stops! Then Angle runs in and rolls up Undertaker for the win! WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!?!?!

Eric Angle, that's what just happened! And the tradition of screw job finishes at Survivor Series continues! 

Yeah, this match is still great.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Edge & Christian & The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs The Dudley Boys & The Hardy Boys - Survivor Series Elimination Match*

Well damn, I forgot Bull and Goodfather were actually TAG CHAMPS at one point.

QUADRUPLE DDT~!

EDGEAMATIC~!

LONGEST TAG TEAM MIS-COMMUNICATION SPOT SEQUENCE EVER~!

Finish is the dumbest shit ever. Goodfather clotheslines Val, falls over and gets pinned.

Match has some fun moments but otherwise is a giant load of nothing. Val and Stevie go through tables.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Steve Austin Vs Triple H - No DQ Match*

Trips has a cool non lyrical version of MY TIME for his theme here. Makes him seem like a real bad cunt, which I guess was the point. HE TRIED TO DROP THINGS ON AUSTIN'S HEAD.

So this is a yawnathon. Most interesting fight here is Austin Vs Timekeeper's Table.

Match "ends" when Austin dumps HHH upside down in a car from like 20ft using a forklift. And HHH comes back like 2 weeks later as if nothing happened. Hilarious.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 6*​


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Can't wait to see who Punk feuds with after this.

I know we'd all love a rematch with Brock, but if that doesn't happen I think the only logical thing to do would be to put him in a feud with Del Rio for the WHC, maybe let Punk elevate that belt to a position where it hasn't been in years. Keep Punk away from the Corporation until Mania season and let him go at it with HHH at some point, preferably Mania, but let him win the WHC for now.

Yeah, if the Heyman feud ends now, the smart money would be on Punk Vs Del Rio as a STRONG second feud, as everybody else who is relevant enough to face Punk is already involved in the HUGE Corporation angle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Can't wait to see who Punk feuds with after this.
> 
> I know we'd all love a rematch with Brock, but if that doesn't happen I think the only logical thing to do would be to put him in a feud with Del Rio for the WHC, maybe let Punk elevate that belt to a position where it hasn't been in years. Keep Punk away from the Corporation until Mania season and let him go at it with HHH at some point, preferably Mania, but let him win the WHC for now.
> 
> Yeah, if the Heyman feud ends now, the smart money would be on Punk Vs Del Rio as a STRONG second feud, as everybody else who is relevant enough to face Punk is already involved in the HUGE Corporation angle.



You might be right, I'd rather see a full blown feud between Punk/Henry for the WHC than Punk/Del Rio though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They could do something really interesting with Punk & RVD if Rob wins the title sometime soon, although honestly I don't see that happening at NOC or any other PPV. Just see Rob giving Del Rio a nice rub and _possibly _Ricardo turns and goes back to ADR. If they don't go that route I can't see Ricardo sticking around to do much. He looks really weird siding with Rob and he really belongs with someone Spanish. haha

Could you imagine the dueling chants between CM PUNK & RVD!?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Can't wait to see who Punk feuds with after this.
> *
> I know we'd all love a rematch with Brock*, but if that doesn't happen I think the only logical thing to do would be to put him in a feud with Del Rio for the WHC, maybe let Punk elevate that belt to a position where it hasn't been in years. Keep Punk away from the Corporation until Mania season and let him go at it with HHH at some point, preferably Mania, but let him win the WHC for now.


No thanks. I love the first match but FUCK REMATCHES!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The only way I'd wanna see a rematch of Brock/Punk is if it's inside Hell in a Cell. If he's only gonna do 3 matches a year, you bet your ass I want fresh opponents each time. Undertaker, Sheamus, Daniel Bryan. BOOM


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BROCK wish opponents for me are Orton, Sheamus, Undertaker, Bryan and Rock.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Eh, idk. I just think Orton & Rock are too fragile to go in there with Rock. I mean, Orton never takes any major punishment in his matches these days anyway, especially gimmick matches. Rock can fucking STAY AWAY FROM EVERYONE. 

-------------------

So the packaging for the _Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come_ set looks fucking godly. Check it out:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/first-look-wwe-triple-h-kingdom-come-dvd/50691/


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton took a powerbomb through a table outside the ring in that Bryan street fight!

Now he's a heel, it makes sense that he takes more punishment in No DQ matches. Besides, the reason he dominated most of his gimmick matches as a face is because he was never booked as the underdog and was the one punishing his opponents. For instance, the SS match with Christian - the reason Christian took all the big bumps is because he was the cowardly heel scared of Orton.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. I was waiting for you to defend him. Never saw that Bryan Street Fight, so my b.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bork dream opponents discussion #13356805435 :lol

Top 5 Rumbles for the sake of it? 
Imo 1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 2001 > 2007.


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

2001 over 2007? I found the former way too dependent on the hardcore aspect of things and 2007 had the superior ending, possibly even the best ever.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Brock would be awesome. Their first match warrants it as well based on the quality (and Punk could really use a win over a guy on Brock's level). However if it doesn't happen at HIAC, I don't think it's happening. 

Punk as World Champion would be awesome for the belt and would restore a lot of prestige to it for as long as he holds it. However I'm completely against Punk/Del Rio again. Their feud wasn't that good and their matches were for the most part underwhelming. Maybe RVD takes the title from Del Rio and then Punk/RVD feud over the strap? THAT I'd love to see. Or RVD wins the title from Del Rio and Sandow cashes in on RVD and then we get Punk/Sandow! OMG, that would make me mark so hard! The promos and build would be epic! :mark: Shame though that Sandow would end up losing the belt by Survivor Series to Punk probably, but if the feud is as great as I know it can be, I'd accept it.

If that happens, maybe they are going to do Punk/Bryan in a title unification match after all at Mania 30.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd be cool with Punk vs Brock HiaC, but honestly if he's only gonna wrestle a few times a year, I'd rather see fresh opponents. I don't know why everyone is saying Undertaker, yes their matches were AMAZING especially HiaC (Brock's best match ever, still. Second best Cell match ever possibly 3rd depending on how you feel about Foley/Trips and Foley/Taker). Bur do you really think an almost 50 year old Undertaker should be getting rag dolled by The Beast? Undertaker is best being the monster now, he has a hard enough time wrestling once a year without getting hurt, why try and rematch these two when its going to be next to impossible for them to top HiaC? Taker only has a few matches left, he should be either having the dream match with Cena, or being the big bad Taker against smaller guys who could absolutely use the rub (Daniel Bryan? Punk again in HiaC?). With two guys as amazing as Brock and Taker only wrestling 3 and 1 times a year respectively, I'd rather have all new looks than rematches. 

That said you won't see me pissing and moaning if Taker/Brock really gets booked for Mania. It'll still most likely be the best match on the card, unless WWE gives us Bryan/Punk and they deliver a ***** classic.

Speaking of classics, I just watched the Blu Ray extras for Payback and saw Rollins/Bryan on Raw for the first time. This is the second best tv match of the year for me, behind only Cena/Punk from February. It was everything I hoped it would be, those two worked perfectly. So stiff too, DBryan looked like he was caving Rollins skull in with that corner jump kick he does. Rollins definitely held his own and didn't allow the flying goat to outshine him. The pace was almost unbelievable, I think the only rest hold they had was during the commercial break. Otherwise they went full tilt for a solid 12-15 minutes. Not too short, not too long. Just right. Seriously thought Rollins was gonna tap when Bryam morphed that surf board into that ridiculous looking hold with Rollins being bent literally in half. I can't wait for Rollins to get his break in singles, although not too soon because I still love everything about the Shield and want to enjoy it for as long as possible. ****1/4 for me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So, was perusing YouTube after I watch TULLY/Steamboat. That's a sweet match for the NWA TV title, by the way. Steamboat sells the ribs so well and Tully is such a good heel. Steamboat kicks ass for a while until Tully seems to pull some brass knuc's from his tights and gets some shots in. 

Christian/Shelton for the ECW title at TLC 2009. The only other matches I remember from this show were DX/JeriShow and Cena/Sheamus. This ladder match though, so awesome. Made we wish we had Shelton instead of Kofi right now. So many great spots in this match. Christian hanging from the title and dropping onto Shelton's shoulder's for a powerbomb. Shelton sunset flipping over the ladder but Christian catching him in the hurricanrana. Shelton's flip off the top of the ladder on the outside. Christian's frog splash onto Shelton, setting his triumphant climb. Easily MOTN, and one of my favorite ladder matches. ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> I'd be cool with Punk vs Brock HiaC, but honestly if he's only gonna wrestle a few times a year, I'd rather see fresh opponents. I don't know why everyone is saying Undertaker, yes their matches were AMAZING especially HiaC (Brock's best match ever, still. Second best Cell match ever possibly 3rd depending on how you feel about Foley/Trips and Foley/Taker). Bur do you really think an almost 50 year old Undertaker should be getting rag dolled by The Beast? Undertaker is best being the monster now, he has a hard enough time wrestling once a year without getting hurt, why try and rematch these two when its going to be next to impossible for them to top HiaC? Taker only has a few matches left, he should be either having the dream match with Cena, or being the big bad Taker against smaller guys who could absolutely use the rub (Daniel Bryan? Punk again in HiaC?). With two guys as amazing as Brock and Taker only wrestling 3 and 1 times a year respectively, I'd rather have all new looks than rematches.
> 
> That said you won't see me pissing and moaning if Taker/Brock really gets booked for Mania. It'll still most likely be the best match on the card, unless WWE gives us Bryan/Punk and they deliver a ***** classic.
> 
> Speaking of classics, I just watched the Blu Ray extras for Payback and saw Rollins/Bryan on Raw for the first time. This is the second best tv match of the year for me, behind only Cena/Punk from February. It was everything I hoped it would be, those two worked perfectly. So stiff too, DBryan looked like he was caving Rollins skull in with that corner jump kick he does. Rollins definitely held his own and didn't allow the flying goat to outshine him. The pace was almost unbelievable, I think the only rest hold they had was during the commercial break. Otherwise they went full tilt for a solid 12-15 minutes. Not too short, not too long. Just right. Seriously thought Rollins was gonna tap when Bryam morphed that surf board into that ridiculous looking hold with Rollins being bent literally in half. I can't wait for Rollins to get his break in singles, although not too soon because I still love everything about the Shield and want to enjoy it for as long as possible. ****1/4 for me.


I'm pretty sure Taker still wants Brock, if all parties agree to that match, then there is a big chance of it happening. I suppose it all hangs on The Rock (whom, sorry marks, i hope misses this Mania).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> So, was perusing YouTube after I watch TULLY/Steamboat. That's a sweet match for the NWA TV title, by the way. Steamboat sells the ribs so well and Tully is such a good heel. Steamboat kicks ass for a while until Tully seems to pull some brass knuc's from his tights and gets some shots in.
> 
> Christian/Shelton for the ECW title at TLC 2009. The only other matches I remember from this show were DX/JeriShow and Cena/Sheamus. This ladder match though, so awesome. Made we wish we had Shelton instead of Kofi right now. So many great spots in this match. Christian hanging from the title and dropping onto Shelton's shoulder's for a powerbomb. Shelton sunset flipping over the ladder but Christian catching him in the hurricanrana. Shelton's flip off the top of the ladder on the outside. Christian's frog splash onto Shelton, setting his triumphant climb. Easily MOTN, and one of my favorite ladder matches. ****1/4


Did you like, fall asleep once the bell rang and imagined a different match? Because Shelton/Christian Ladder match from TLC 09 is like, one of the worst ladder matches in WWE history .


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Nah, Christian/Shelton from TLC 2009 was great.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Did you like, fall asleep once the bell rang and imagined a different match? Because Shelton/Christian Ladder match from TLC 09 is like, one of the worst ladder matches in WWE history .


Now don't be hateful Cal, and anyway, Kevin Nash gets jealous when you claim someone has had a worse ladder match in WWE than him and trips at TLC2011. There have definitely been worse ladder matches than Nash/Trips (Eddie vs Syxx immediately comes to mind) but not in the WWE. Atleast not for my money. Feel free to disagree but you will be wrong 

Personally, Jeff Hardy vs RVD Ladder Match at SummerSlam was way, way worse than Selton/Christian. Plus, Christian could do no wrong in 2009. The man was on fucking fire. Or as Marv Albert would say "HE'S EN FUEGO!!!!"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never said it was THE worst, just ONE OF . Match was botchy and awkward and flowed horribly. No redeeming qualities outside of like, 2 spots .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

JR has retired 

My day just got so much worse


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Time for a third watch of Brock/Punk, good god i love this match


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WWE.com listed the 15 best PPVs ever. Bad Blood got an honorable mention, because it had "perhaps the best Hell in a Cell match ever." LOL


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Heard that Neither SS02 or SS01 are on the list. Bullshit


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> WWE.com listed the 15 best PPVs ever. Bad Blood got an honorable mention, because it had "perhaps the best Hell in a Cell match ever." LOL


That part was funny. If anything, that PPV is most memorable for the match WWE is unwilling to acknowledge while the cell match leaves a bad impression.

Still cool to see them promote a show where Benoit worked twice.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Wrestlemania 19 & 20 didn't make the list either. No Way Out 2009 is also a terrific all around event and much better than Backlash 2009 which made the list. Also I've never seen anyone say Triple H/HBK is the best HIAC match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE.com's top 15 PPV's:

15. Survivor Series 1995 - :lmao. Main event is GREAT, but everything else? DIE.
14. Heat Wave 1998 - Original ECW so I'm guessing it's really shitty bar like, one match .
13. Backlash 2009 - Very good event all round, even if the LMS match doesn't hold up any more. 6 man tag and Christian/Swagger more than make up for it.
12. Bash at the Beach 1996 - I recall the opener being praised but fuck if I remember. Main event isn't good but memorable.
11. Extreme Rules 2012 - Well they got one right.
10. In Your House: Canadian Stampede - 2. Well done WWE.
09. No Way Out 2001 - Eh. Not high on this any more. 3SOH sucks, don't think much to the 4-way, but it does still have some good shit.
08. One Night Stand 2005 - :lmao just no.
07. SummerSlam 2013 - Well 2 great main events, so fine, I suppose .
06. Great American Bash 1989 - Luger/Steamer is good, Flair/Funk is awesome and I quite liked the War Games match.
05. WrestleMania III - :lmao. One match show. Everything is trash except the IC title match. SS 02 and Backlash 00 were just honorable mentions over this?
04. Spring Stampede 1994 - 2 great matches, but that's all I remember from this.
03. Royal Rumble 2000 - Again, 2 great matches. I guess they like those 2 match shows lol.
02. Money in the Bank 2011 - Super event no doubt. Wouldn't have it this high, but compared to the shite they've included, it's fine .
01. WrestleMania X-Seven - Great event no doubt, but would struggle to get into my top 5. At least it's the best out of what they listed.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One pleasant surprise on the list was, even though def. not Top 15 ever, SVS '95. That was a fucking brilliant show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Half of that list looks great, but the other half is laughable.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

cjack828 said:


> Now don't be hateful Cal, and anyway, Kevin Nash gets jealous when you claim someone has had a worse ladder match in WWE than him and trips at TLC2011. There have definitely been worse ladder matches than Nash/Trips (Eddie vs Syxx immediately comes to mind) but not in the WWE. Atleast not for my money. Feel free to disagree but you will be wrong



Nope, HHH/Nash is far better than it has any earthly right to be, I mean yeah its a stupid stipulation but they still used it well and whilst it might not be this fast paced intense spectacle its a great wee bit of storytelling encased in a horrific feud.

Worst ladder match? Most likely one of the shitty TV ones from the 2000s, something like Carlito/Jeff Hardy or the such.



Callamus said:


> 04. Spring Stampede 1994 - 2 great matches, but that's all I remember from this.


VADER/BOSS :mark:
NASTY BOYS/JACK & PAYNE STREET FIGHT :mark: :mark:
RHODES/BUNKHOUSE THE BUNKHOUSE MATCH :mark: :mark:
THE 2ND BEST FLAIR/STEAMBOAT MATCH (yeah I said it, come at me cunts (You think that's bad, wait until you see what my favourite Danielson/McGuiness match is) :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well, Im home, time to get back into Fully Loaded!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

4 days till the WWE Title goes back to the GOAT bryan


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Craig said:


> Nope, HHH/Nash is far better than it has any earthly right to be, I mean yeah its a stupid stipulation but they still used it well and whilst it might not be this fast paced intense spectacle its a great wee bit of storytelling encased in a horrific feud.
> 
> Worst ladder match? Most likely one of the shitty TV ones from the 2000s, something like Carlito/Jeff Hardy or the such.
> 
> ...


Ooooo didn't realise VADER/BOSS was on it. Tag and Flair/Steamer are the 2 great matches I remember from it. Didn't like the Bunkhouse match lol .

Well dammit Craig now I'm intrigued. YOU'RE fav Danielson/McGuinness match? Hmmmm...

And speaking of MCGUINNESS. Watched his documentary again last night. So awesome still.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Sorry but there is no way Bryan is winning at NOC. He got the advantage this week but that was just to give people some hope he may win. It will look like he will win and The Shield will cause a dq or something like that. He will get the belt back but not a couple of months.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Know that, but that doesn't make me any less excited for this match


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My birthday is on Sunday so my friends got me the PPV for free! :mark: :mark:

Its gonna be so much more fun hoping I didn't just waste my money.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't even know the fucking card beyond the WWE title match and the Punk match :lmao.

*looks on wwe.com*

WWE Champion Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

CM Punk vs. Intercontinental Champion Curtis Axel & Paul Heyman (Handicap Elimination Match)

World Heavyweight Champion Alberto Del Rio vs. Rob Van Dam

Divas Champion AJ Lee vs. Natalya vs. Brie Bella vs. Naomi (Fatal 4-Way Match)

The Prime Time Players vs. The Usos vs. Tons of Funk vs. The Real Americans vs. 3MB (Tag Team Turmoil No. 1 Contender’s Match)

Well seems I only remembered the important matches anyway .


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

No expectations from RVD/ADR, but the Divas match can deliver


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

need something watch gents ?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> need something watch gents ?


You could watch Triple H vs Shawn Michaels, "perhaps the best Hell in Cell match ever" 

:HHH2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seen today Owen Hart vs Edge from IYH:BreakDown, ***3/4, awesome match


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> need something watch gents ?


Search World Wrestling Encyclopedia on youtube. He has like, 100 PPVS

EDIT: it might be under 3307beetlejuice


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Good lord my grammar is horrible how did I make it this far in English class ?

^^^
This better not be some porn or you'll be ban..........



JK


Edit: Thanks, but i dont think I have time for a whole ppv, geez that guy's channel has everything, he will probably be blocked by the end of this week though


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Good lord my grammar is horrible how did I make it this far in English class ?
> 
> ^^^
> This better not be some porn or you'll be ban..........
> ...


well.... 

Look him up though. He said hes gonna upload every PPV from 1985 to 2007

http://www.youtube.com/user/3307beetlejuice/featured


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I saw, thanks, he'll be luck to go a week with all that shit on there, are the video's fucked up to avoid copyright ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Yea I saw, thanks, he'll be luck to go a week with all that shit on there, are the video's fucked up to avoid copyright ?


He had an old account that lasted for like a month. But Im just gonna watch as much as possible for now :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> No expectations from RVD/ADR, but the Divas match can deliver


Say what now?

------------

Watched Punker vs Cena from NOC this morning. Unbelievably fabulous match. I'm talking could be my second favorite match from them level. b/c nothing it trumping MITB to snag the number one spot. Such a smart match. The counters, the logic, the finishers used were effective and didn't go into "ugh" territory. Loved it the entire way. Zipped on by for going nearly 27 minutes. That's always the right sign they're doing something correct. Finish is great too. Super german suplex is more than believable. Brutal spot. The swerve the fans got when Punk was handed the championship was


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I was blown away when I rewatched it a couple weeks ago, brilliant match, Obviously mitb 11 is the peak/bar, but I need to re watch that raw match because noc 12 may be their 2nd best match for me as well

kofi/cesaro II on main event tonite


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Competition seems to be the RAW 2011 in Canada & this year's RAW #1 contenders match with NOC gunning for their second best match. SummerSlam 2011 is really good too, but a notch below all three of those. A stunning top five at the end of the day. Their very first match is a corker itself. Only one I don't remember was the latter 2012 one where I think Punk had the blown call by Maddox on him. Unless that was a tag.

I should care b/c Cesaro COULD work his magic again, but I don't. If it's good, then awesome. If not then I'm not surprised. WWE doing their tri-monthly Kofi Kingston push so fuck it all. And then the other match is Big E. Langston vs R-Truth. Yawn. Wished PTP's were vs Slater & MCINTYRE, but instead I think it is Mahal. Luckily the right team will win, but I just don't care about the dreck. Feels like that rumor about WWE wanting to push their "black workers" is finally coming into play. Guarantee you in the next few weeks we'll have Kofi as IC Champ, PTP's as Tag champs _(not a bad thing though)_, & Langston gunning for a championship of his own. Probably the World...lololol.

WWE. Where we push people to get certain racial demographics. As if people's heritages should matter. Good grief.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Kofi just looks like a straight up jobber these days, I have so much faith in Cesaro though, I'll check it out.

yea cena/punk have had an epic series. Although I still think John-boy's best opponent in-ring was HEARTBREAK, punk is just a tad behind. mitb,ss,noc,raw 13, and I think the raw 1000 are the only ones that stand out to me though, I should watch their match in 09-10

Edit: :lmao at this point why not Big E ? I'll laugh(cry) if he is higher on the card than zig-zag in the next couple of months


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs John Cena

All of their singles matches ^

I tackled this project last year - early this year and it was totally worth it. Only match that was "iffy" was the one that lasted less than two minutes. Circumstances seem to be their only drawback & they never come up. Aka: no drawbacks. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on bragging rights 09 and 010? Thinkig about hitting them up soon


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Picked up the Mid South Blu Ray today from FYE. Should I watch that or MITB '13 tonight (rewatch of course)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2010 is a fun show, although the main event is trash. Still enjoy myself with all of the rest & the Danielson vs Ziggler match is great. 2009 is easy to watch; solid show. Cena vs Orton flies on by for sixty minutes and it's kind of the epitome of a "entertainment" match. Watch it and you'll know exactly what I mean by that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Punk/Cena (for me atleast)

1. MitB
2. Raw 2013
3. NoC
4. Summerslam


I really need to rewatch NoC though, I've only seen it once when it was live. Remember thoroughly enjoying it though. Loved the pacing.

Wow that WWE.com list is such a freaking joke, I won't even bother doing a breakdown, Cal nailed most of it except hating on Spring Stampede 1994. Loved that event I have all the matches on a burned DVD somewhere. Cactus/Payne vs Nasties is just a wonderful 10-12 brawl.

I'm in the mood for some Shield, which Raw was the Hell No Kofi tag on? I need to see that, I've seen some people put it ahead of TLC as their best match. I can't fathom that being true since TLC is tied with Punk/Bryan OTL as my MotY for 2012, but I'd love to check it out all the same to decide for myself...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAW 5/20/13, cjack.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Thoughts on bragging rights 09 and 010? Thinkig about hitting them up soon


I enjoy the Cena/Orton Ironman match. Don't know about anything else on the shows. Think I enjoyed one of the interpromotional matches actually.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

cjack828 said:


> Punk/Cena (for me atleast)
> 
> 1. MitB
> 2. Raw 2013
> ...




They're NOC match is fucking AWESOME! Loved it, it's kinda underrated: 

1. MITB 11: ****3/4
2. NOC 12: ****1/4
3. RAW: ****
4. Summerslam 11: ****


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

alright Haylysabin. Watching 09 when Im done with fully loaded


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the mid south documentary. Pretty damn good so far. Excited to watch these matches. Marking like hell for DiBiase.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that heartbreak/Dibiase match intrigues me


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah the lineup is stacked. I'm expecting a lot out of DiBiase/Flair. I also loved me some JYD growing up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> that heartbreak/Dibiase match intrigues me


I think it's like one of Shawn's first matches ever so don't expect much.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Some of the WWE.com lists are like WTF and this one is no different. I think we are overrating Summerslam 2013. Great PPV but 7th best ever? It's not even the best Summerslam ever. 2002 says hello. Also, where the F is Wrestlemania 19? 

Some great ones on there though.....WM 17, ER 2012, Backlash 2009, Canadian Stampede, etc. 

Wrestlemania 3 though not full of a ton of 5 star classics is incredibly fun. That was the LJN era baby.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kofi/cesaro is uninspiring so far, I literally cant look at kofi with those tights


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Not messing with Main Event since X-Men First Class in on, but I've got TLC III lined for after while. Then TLC IV.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So bored so for the hell of it I documented all of Dolph Ziggler's singles matches in WWE from 2008 _(when he debuted under the name)_ - now.

He's had twenty-five matches on TV/PPV vs Kofi Kingston. And thanks to the last two years, he worked vs Sheamus & Orton tweleve times each + Del Rio ten. Nine out of the ten that came from this year alone. Jesus christ.

his fifth most wrestled opponent is Danielson, believe it or not. Eight. When he works singles they sure like to put him with the same flock of folk...And yes, on days where I legit have NOTHING to do, I bullshit like this.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea they like to throw him with the same katz week after week, that many matches with dbryan doesnt suprise me at all, they had like 4 around that br 10 time and a few around mania this year


Watching flair/steamboat wcw Saturday night


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Backlash '09

Christian/Swagger - ****
Jericho/Steamboat - ***1/2
Punk/Kane - ***
Hardy/Hardy - ***
Legacy vs Batista/Trips/Shane - ****1/2
Edge/Cena - ****1/2

LOVE this show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

To be in the top five over all _(out of 47 separate workers)_ is the part that surprised me. Thought he certainly had more singles bouts vs Mysterio or Morrison. They're close, but no go. Those tags spread out the difference.

The Kofi one is just hilarious though. Both those dudes can't get booked away from each other until now b/c they're both faces. Bet they were sick of the same match over and over. I know I was.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Backlash 2009 rules. 

Loving this mid south set. DiBiase was such a fantastic seller and worker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Forgot to address this earlier, but I'm kinda shocked Mr. Paramore fan that you liked Muta/Chono from Starrcade 92. Wasn't there a pretty strong rumor going on that Muta and Chono phoned in that match because Bill Watts did not want two Asian wrestlers to outperform his entire roster? Therefore, he told them to purposely wrestle poorly. Quite a shame that Starrcade 92 didn't match the level of most of the other big events of that awesome year for WCW, but it did give us another spectacular Vader/Sting match as well as the two Windham tag matches.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the multi-man tag match from February 1992 from WCW that is typically regarded as one of the best WCW matches ever? I think it was either 6 or 8 men and it occurred on Saturday Night. I want to say the date was 2/2/92, and the match included Sting, Steamboat, Windham, and ARN among others. :woolcock especially pimped it out, so it had to be good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash '09 is pretty good. Only pretty good for me - b/c about half of the show is bad. I Quit & LMS = THUMBS DOWN smiley, Punker vs Kane isn't pretty, but the fan of both that I am can watch it and all that jazz. Then the other three. Now that's where it got good. Jericho vs Steamboat is a total blast, six man is really terrific _(probably the most underrated PPV match of 2009)_ & Christian vs Swagger is GOLD. Not even their best match of the year, which says it all, but 100% GOLD.

Did they "tank" it at Starrcade? I really don't remember that. I'm a big Muta mark so probably my memory is only wanting me to be thinking that it was good or something.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Backlash 2009 does indeed rule

Why Swagger cannot work any awesome matches outside of the Christian feud is confusing. those were SO GOOD. I'm one of the few that have the BL 09 match over the ECW tv match.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Totally agree on the six man tag being underlooked. No one is ever talking about it but it's legitimately a great match.

And I'd have killed to see Steamboat wrestling sporadically throughout that year. He was so awesome upon his return.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every Jack Swagger match is damn near worth seeing. Guy is a freakin tremendous wrestler. Since the start - now. Hasn't been a point where it wasn't true.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Swagger's matches with Orton suck balls. Those two should stay away from each other for good. 

Random thought.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Every Jack Swagger match is damn near worth seeing. Guy is a freakin tremendous wrestler. Since the start - now. Hasn't been a point where it wasn't true.


Honestly cant see a singles match hes in that I would put at **** or above, besides against Christian. MAYBE At MITB 2010 against Rey. His real americans stuff is good and his match was Zayn was good. but not at **** IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

how is steamboat/austin bash 94 ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Swagger's matches with Orton suck balls. Those two should stay away from each other for good.
> 
> Random thought.


It's face Orton dude. C'mon now.



smitty915 said:


> Honestly cant see a singles match hes in that I would put at **** or above, besides against Christian. MAYBE At MITB 2010 against Rey. His real americans stuff is good and his match was Zayn was good. but not at **** IMO.


Both matches listed are absolutely amazing. Then for a random few are his matches vs Chris Masters & Kaval from Superstars. Stellar work.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> It's face Orton dude. C'mon now.
> 
> 
> 
> Both matches listed are absolutely amazing. Then for a random few are his matches vs Chris Masters & Kaval from Superstars. Stellar work.


Havent seen the superstars matches, will check them out. I think I explained my feelings on Swagger wrong. Hes a great midcard heel in the tag division. Hes decent in the ring and has a great mouthpiece, but every time they push him it doesn't work. his WHC reign was horrible and his whole push flopped BIG TIME. Then three years later they try again and he fucks up. I just dont see him breaking out of the midcard again. and I'm not going to lose sleep over that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> how is steamboat/austin bash 94 ?


I really liked that match as well as all their other matches. The story of Austin's desperation was played off so well here and it especially showed in the ending of the match. Steamboat is his usual awesome self, but this match was really the Steve Austin show. The guy always understood how to play a heel in any match setting. Their Clash match is good too. I do remember a match they had together that people shat on, but I don't remember what it was.

I love Muta, but I was shocked to find out that there were people here that were highly critical of his work. Along with Liger, he was one of my first pieces of exposure to puro. Something about those early WCW matches were just so special. Guy was unique from everyone there and it showed considering how fans cheered for him even when he was a heel. Please don't tell me that Chono gets shat on too. Love that dude, and he was taught by my boy Lou Thesz.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

finished the 25 greatest rivalries on netlfix

Pretty good,some feuds were better than others but I'm not complaining, I do believe #2 is #1 though, IMO shawn/bret is the best feud ever. Highlights of the doc were flair/Rhodes by Shawn :mark: , he basically explains why I love flair and always will,is it weird that my 2nd favorite of all time is my favorite's favorites ? anyways great stuff. 2) was the shawn/bret part and I :mark: @ who was talking about it


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hate to say it, but Fully Loaded seems a little overrated right now. Just starting the ME and Jericho/HHH is the only match above *** 1/2*. Everything else seemed poor. Hopefully the ME is good


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> F Wasn't there a pretty strong rumor going on that Muta and Chono phoned in that match because Bill Watts did not want two Asian wrestlers to outperform his entire roster? Therefore, he told them to purposely wrestle poorly.


Mutoh and Chono could often be pretty lazy wrestlers, tbph. Watch them in a submission hold; sometimes they, like, don't react. Chono shocked me a few times with his performances and "Great Muta" is an awesome character, but I pretty much have no time for these two wrestling. ESPECIALLY against each other. A year ago I watched a 92 match of theirs from New Japan where they did this ridiculous double dropkick spot that lasted like two minutes. It was 'double dropkick, fall', rinse and repeat. Literally made me laugh.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Fully Loaded 2000 review​*
Supposedly one of the GOAT PPVS, No idea why I haven’t seen it. Well, that’s changing now!​
*Match # 1: T&A and Trish vs The Hardyz and Lita- intergender 6 man tag*

I am usually NOT a fan of these types of matches but this looks promising. This match was actually pretty good. It was a good opening to the night because king could be awkward, it was a high energy match, and the crowd was into it. I think this might be the first intergender tag match that ever gets a good rating. In the end Lita pinned Trish for the win. *** ¼*

*Match # 2: Tazz vs Al Snow- singles match*

I have heard this is complete shit, so im expecting shit :lol. WOW This was SHIT. It was so bad it just isn’t worth me writing about it- ¼*

*Match # 3: Perry Saturn vs Eddie Gurrero- singles match for the Euro title*

Im reading Y2J’s book right now and he says that him and HHH were supposed to break the table here but these guys done fucked it all up themselves. Eddie kinda sucked in a ton of his matches at this time. 2004-2005 was awesome though! This match was actually one of Eddies better Euro title matches, Saturn did OK and so did Eddie, but it was kind of your standard filler. Liked having Chyna and Saturn’s girlfriend at ringside, fun for the 8 minutes it got. ** ½*

*Match # 4: Edge and Christian vs the Acolytes- tag match for the tag titles
*
E&C in 2000? Sounds awesome on paper, I just hope it lives up to the awesomeness it should be. Apparently this is a tornado no DQ match? :lol. Too bad it ended about 2 minutes in by DQ. This PPV has been terrible so far. Thank god we have Jericho/trips and Rock/Benoit to look forward to. ½*

*Match # 5: Rikishi vs Val Venis- cage match for the IC title
*
This is honestly the first Val Venis match I have ever seen, But I love Rikishi so its probably gonna be good. This match was eh. That one AWESOME spot where Rikishi jumped on Val from the tpo of the cage was the only thing I could get from this match. The whole thing with Lita and Tazz both coming out felt so pointless to me, the match itself however was slow and boring most of the time, but wasn’t too bad. ** ½* 

*Match # 6: Kurt Angle vs the Undertaker- singles match*

I came in not expecting NOW 2006 at all, but I expected at least a good match. Angle wasn’t great in the ring at this point but he really could of pulled out a good match with THE UNDERTAKER. Crowd was somewhat into it but I couldn’t :lol. Found it boring . **


*Match # 7: Chris Jericho vs HHH- LMS match
*
In the Jericho book he said that this is one of his all time favorite matches. So im really looking forward to it because he was just talking about the backstage stuff from this match. I am usually not a fan of LMS matches because the whole counting process is kind of slow and repetitive. But this match was awesome. These guys have great chemistry and have certainly had some bad matches, but this was one of the good ones. This really was the first good match of the night IMO. Luckily it made up for a disappointing undercard. **** ½* 

*Match # 8: The Rock vs Chris Benoit- singles match for the WWF title*

I love both of these guys as I think their both great wrestlers and great performers. This match was no exception. Solid throughout and I really liked Shane’s reactions because they nearly made the match. I prefer Benoit as a face rather than a heel and I think that was shown during the match. I am usually not a fan of false finishers but this was actually a really good one with Foley coming down as the commish it felt less cheesy. Solid match, really funny match. **** ¼*

Overall this PPV seems to be overrated in my eyes. It seems like a 2 match show. The opening tag match was fun, but the rest of the undercard and Taker/Angle sucked IMO. Luckily the two biggest matches delivered. That’s all that really matters in the long run, a good undercard is just an added bonus. **** for this PPV.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> is it weird that my 2nd favorite of all time is my favorite's favorites ?


Not at all. 

My favorite all time obviously influences my current favorite (Punk) and my 3rd favorite all time obviously influences my 2nd current favorite (Bryan)

The DiBiase/Michaels match is about to start on the Mid South set. HBK talking about how DiBiase influenced him and taught him some stuff is cool to see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Shocker alert guys! If you can, go watch Kevin Nash vs. The Giant from Souled Out 1998. On paper, this sounds like a typical WCW stinker, but somehow these guys put on a really good showdown. Very good hidden gem from one of the best WCW PPVs of the nWo era.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Tazz vs Al Snow match from Fully Loaded is kind of awesome, tbhayley.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Holy fuck Flair v DiBiase is about to start. I didn't know this match existed until a few weeks ago. So excited for this bad boy. I feel like I'm 10 haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Going with Punker vs Danielson first time clash in WWE. This should be as excellent as I remember. Probably going to be TV MOTY until I get to the Punk vs Henry matches in April. LOCK.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Flair/DiBiase on the Mid South set was wonderful. Fantastic babyface performance by DiBiase.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dawned on me I actually have cash to buy this set. Hmm. Might as well, when I think about it. Sounds excellent & been wanting Watts to be able to release the goods for a long time now.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm half way through the second disc and it's wonderful. Young JR on commentary is awesome and fitting today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did the set have any Midnight Express matches on it?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes a very good Midnight/R & R Express match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Currently watching the Mid South set myself as well. Seeing Tony Atlas bench 550 was a pretty bad ass inclusion. Here's the listing Cody:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-listing-wwe-legends-of-mid-south-wrestling-dvd/45874/


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

My buddy met Tony Atlas at a Raw before WM25 in Kansas City. He shook his hand and my buddy said he felt like his hand was broke but he was a cool guy. 

Yeah that was impressive as fuck by Atlas. 

It's crazy how over JYD was. Was more popular in the New Orleans area than Archie Manning or Pete Maravich? Thats pretty rad. He has charisma for days man. Loved me some JYD growing up. When I was a kid and my Uncle found out I liked wrestling he brought me a bunch of old back wrestling mags and this was one of them. I still have it somewhere....


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just finished flair/steamboat ww 89, phenomenal match if can get through the first 10 mins which I've seen worse

Hopefully watchwrestlting get that mid-south DVD on there soon


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Terry Gordy was underrated as fuck. What a fantastic worker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Terry Gordy was underrated as fuck. What a fantastic worker.


Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou. About bloody time someone acknowledged this man, he was of course great too with Steve Williams with the Miracle Violence Connection.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

People hate Gordy?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More Midnight Express matches on DVD. Thank heavens.

and idk if anyone hates Gordy. More along the lines as a good portion of "the masses" may not acknowledge him period.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mid-South set came out yesterday and it isn't online yet. THE FUCK IS TAKING SO LONG, ILLEGAL UPLOADING PEOPLES?

I'd buy it, but as I keep saying, fremantle can go FUCK THEMSELVES with their rip off prices. Cunts. Haven't bought a new release since they took over from SV. That includes RR and WM which I own every other one of, regardless of how shitty the event was. Bah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Would you seriously own Royal Rumble 2013 if you had to pay full price? _(which is like $15 in the US...do it to what it would be over there)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Would you seriously own Royal Rumble 2013 if you had to pay full price? _(which is like $15 in the US...do it to what it would be over there)_


I DON'T own the RR '13 BECAUSE I'd have to pay full price. Same for WM 29 too. Fuck em both. I'll wait a year or so for them to go cheap from an Amazon seller or something. Don't even care if they are second hand.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

redskins25 said:


> Just finished flair/steamboat ww 89, phenomenal match if can get through the first 10 mins which I've seen worse


Muchos agree. Second half of that match is just incredible. Best stuff I've seen. First half almost knocked me to sleep.

Looking at a pre-'92 Clash/PPV from the WCW side of things to help me settle into some '92. Havoc 91 any good, or any of the surrounding events?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm gonna give EC 2013 a watch, I still haven't seen it for some reason. Then I'll rewatch the rest of the 2013 stuff as I have only seen all of it once.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I DON'T own the RR '13 BECAUSE I'd have to pay full price. Same for WM 29 too. Fuck em both. I'll wait a year or so for them to go cheap from an Amazon seller or something. Don't even care if they are second hand.


Thought you were implying you'd pay full price but the current "full price" of that store is too much currently from the norm. It just sounds like you're being cheap. Vintage CAL.

I wouldn't buy it either, though. :hayley1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well the current full price IS higher than what it used to be. When SilverVision had the rights to the WWE DVD's the full price wasn't THAT bad. Now Fremantle have taken over and they upped the prices, so the current full price is now the norm, and it fucking SUCKS.

Edit: Besides, I just lost my job. I gotta be cheap .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Somehow I should have remembered this fact in the middle of the mutli-paragraphed rants. Those bastards.

Honestly, I wouldn't even try to own Rumble 2013 if the price was five dollars. I'm talking like it has to be a gift in order for me to own it. Unless I can scoop it up for a nickle. There is no fun watching that show. Maybe the Rumble, but ehhhh. Drew McIntyre's awesome bump can wait.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Watching these Randy Savage promos are making me miss him so much.

One of the best talkers IMO. I loved when he'd say "YEAH!" right after his sentences. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rumble match this year is probably one of the most underrated Rumbles ever. I marked HARD for DEM HOES. Everything else in the PPV is either hyper forgettable despite not being that bad (pretty much all before the Rumble) or can go fuck itself with a barbed wire-wrapped dildo (Punk/Rock).

Thank goodness Punk and Rock stepped it up a little at Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Any rumble Cena wins Is bound to be "bad" with the majority of smarks. I think that the 2013 rumble is the best since 2008, ironically another Cena rumble :lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR match this year WAS fun, but doesn't even come anywhere, absolutely ANYWHERE near the 09 match. Which is like, in my top 5 of all time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, the 09 Rumble is essentially the 05 Rumble with a lesser number of cool subplots that had you drooling (Taker/Show interactions, Mysterio's "escape moment", Finlay/Goldust...). In my opinion it isn't anywhere near a good as you make it out to be :lol

On the other hand, I might be the biggest advocate of the 2010 Rumble ever. CM Punk alone bumped it at least **, then you add HBK's performance, Edge's return, Kane kicking ass, YOSHI TATSU momentarily pwning Cena... hot damn.

Imo Rumbles go like this:
1992 > 2004 > 2002 > 2001 > 2007 > 2010 > 1991 > 1996 > 1990 > 2005 > 2008 > 2006 > 2011 > 2009 > 1998 > 2013 > 1994 > 2000 > 1997 > 2003 > 1993 > 2012 > 1989 > 1988 > 1999 > 1995.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10:

10. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4 (2003)

9. 40 Man Royal Rumble Match - **** (2011)

8. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - **** (1991)

7. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 (2007)

6. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 (1996)

5. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 (2001)

4. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 (2004)

3. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 (2002)

2. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 (2009)

1. 30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***** (1992)

Edit: Forgot I liked the 2011 one so much lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2009 over 2004 and 2002? Now that's pure BIAS, Cal :side:

For the sake of it, I'm planning on rewatching Angle/Booker JD 2005 after watching the promo - BEASTIALITY SEX :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2005, 2006 and 2010 over 2009? That ain't biased, that's just DUMB :side:.

Gonna watch another 2000 PPV. Thinking Armageddon today. Love the HIAC match. Screw the haters.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Are there any good 1999 ppvs at all?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Are there any good 1999 ppvs at all?


Not really. There are only a handful of PPV matches worth watching in total.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> I'm gonna give EC 2013 a watch, I still haven't seen it for some reason. Then I'll rewatch the rest of the 2013 stuff as I have only seen all of it once.


Great show imo but I seem to be in the minority. The Chamber match and Shield 6-man are both awesome & Del Rio/Show is a good opener. Cesaro/Miz is very good for the time given and the ending they went with. I also think Punk/Rock is watchable since it's basically a Punk show.



smitty915 said:


> Are there any good 1999 ppvs at all?


Not really, each show just has 1 or 2 matches worth seeing for the most part. Best ones that come to mind are Summerslam and No Mercy, but I'm not even sure about the last one considering HHH/Austin. No clue how that would hold up.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Callamus said:


> 2005, 2006 and 2010 over 2009? That ain't biased, that's just DUMB :side:.
> 
> Gonna watch another 2000 PPV. Thinking Armageddon today. Love the HIAC match. Screw the haters.


LOVE that HIAC. Constant action. Underrated match in my opinion.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Up to the HIAC match now and so far the PPV has a -1 on the CAL SCALE :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Up to the HIAC match now and so far the PPV has a -1 on the CAL SCALE :lmao.


I remember being super disappointed by the LMS Jericho vs Kane match, love those two for the most part but that match was amazingly mediocre.

HiaC is rock solid, not a top 5 cell match or anything but still very good.

And for the record,1992>2004>2002>2009 for the Royal Rumble, atleast in my humblest of humble opinions. 2009 was kick ass though. 1992 will never ever be topped, Flairs wire to wire brilliance, mixed with the sheer volume of HoF worthy talent makes that match neer untouchable. The drama at the end still gives me goosebumps. That's on the Ric Flair Mount Rushmore of achievements, along with defeating Race at SC83', Savage at Mania 8, and his match with Steamboat in Nashville.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> 2005, 2006 and 2010 over 2009? That ain't biased, that's just DUMB .
> 
> Gonna watch another 2000 PPV. Thinking Armageddon today. Love the HIAC match. Screw the haters.


2009 was good, but #2 Rumble match ever is DUMBER, to hell w/opinions :side:

Armageddon was a 1-match show.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> My buddy met Tony Atlas at a Raw before WM25 in Kansas City. He shook his hand and my buddy said he felt like his hand was broke but he was a cool guy.
> 
> Yeah that was impressive as fuck by Atlas.
> 
> It's crazy how over JYD was. Was more popular in the New Orleans area than Archie Manning or Pete Maravich? Thats pretty rad. He has charisma for days man. Loved me some JYD growing up. When I was a kid and my Uncle found out I liked wrestling he brought me a bunch of old back wrestling mags and this was one of them. I still have it somewhere....


Would rep again if I could. I adore JYD. Such a fun character and a great guy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll never understand why was JYD('s daughter iirc) booed out of the building during the WM 20 HOF segment. Even Drew Carey at 27 got a better response.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> I'll never understand why was JYD('s daughter iirc) booed out of the building during the WM 20 HOF segment. Even Drew Carey at 27 got a better response.


They were barking lol.

Sad she died a few years ago too though.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Best Rumble match for me from what i've seen is definitely 2003. Highlights were the Jericho/HBK interactions, John Cena rap, and Brock winning. Haven't seen any Rumbles from before 2000, might watch the 2009 one tonight though which I didn't know was supposed to be decent. Have it on DVD but haven't bothered to watch it yet.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> They were barking lol.
> 
> Sad she died a few years ago too though.


:lmao I'm an idiot for never fucking noticing that 

She died too? Well shit. RIP to both.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

ATF said:


> :lmao I'm an idiot for never fucking noticing that
> 
> She died too? Well shit. RIP to both.


lol I used to think the same thing.

But yeah not sure what happened but I heard she was on the phone and just collapsed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

To all you folks out there who have gone through 2008 completely (and I know there's a few of you out there), can you tell me how these matches were?

Finlay Vs. Mr. Kennedy
_RAW 3/10/08_

*4-on-2 Handicap Steel Cage Match*
Ric Flair & Shawn Michaels Vs.
Edge, Zack Ryder, Curt Hawkins & Chavo Guerrero
_SmackDown! 3/14/08_

*Champion Vs. Champion*
Chris Jericho Vs. MVP
_SmackDown! 3/28/08_

Matt Hardy Vs. Randy Orton
_RAW 3/31/08_

Chris Jericho Vs. Batista
_RAW 5/19/08 _


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm gonna guess she just had a sudden heart attack. I googled and all I read was that her cause of death was never found.

Speaking of JYD, didn't he have an awesome Tag vs Funks at Mania 2?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Matt Hardy Vs. Randy Orton
> _RAW 3/31/08_


Only seen this one. It's alright, nothing great but worth a watch.

I really wanna go through 2008 soon. 07 has got me so bored (June time) that I can barely make it through the last couple of PPVs.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The only person who got booed was Pete rose :lol

I'll always feel bad for celebrities when they get booed(trump this year)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The handicap cage from 08 is FUUUUUUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUUUUUUN.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think people hate Terry Gordy I think they arent familar with his work much. Not as much as Hayes anyway. Watching this Mid South set (I LOVE it so far!) makes me want to watch more of Gordy's stuff. When he came to the WWF as the Executioner they really should have found a better gimmick for him and had a lengthy feud with Taker. Just my 2 cents. 

Oh and put the mother fuckin Freebirds in the Hall of Fame for the love of God! New Orleans makes sense being down south but ATL at WM27 should have happened. 



HayleySabin said:


> Would you seriously own Royal Rumble 2013 if you had to pay full price? _(which is like $15 in the US...do it to what it would be over there)_


No fucking way. I got it used for $5 so I grabbed it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I don't think people hate Terry Gordy I think they arent familar with his work much. Not as much as Hayes anyway. Watching this Mid South set (I LOVE it so far!) makes me want to watch more of Gordy's stuff. When he came to the WWF as the Executioner they really should have found a better gimmick for him and had a lengthy feud with Taker. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Oh and put the mother fuckin Freebirds in the Hall of Fame for the love of God! New Orleans makes sense being down south but ATL at WM27 should have happened.
> 
> ...



I ordered it for store pick up from the Best Buy next to my house, I'm gonna grab it on my way home from work at 4:00. So pumped to see some Gordy, DiBiase, and especially the Midnight Express, who I think are a top 5 GOAT tag team and #1 overall underrated tag team in wrestling history. I love their stuff, especially anything against Robert and Ricky. I didn't realize there was a documentary top, that kicks so much ass.

And yes, the Freebirds and Midnight Express not being in the HoF are the two biggest tragedies outside of Savage. If Savage doesn't get put in at WM30, I'm gonna fucking lose it.

This match listing has me so excited, I'm doing everything I can to weasel my way out of having to go out to dinner with my girlfriend. Total nub move on my part to offer to take her out on the day the Mid-South set comes out. I'm telling her well in advance of 9/24 (when KoK comes out) that I'm fucking busy that day, doing.......stuff. She tolerates my wrestling obsession and at times thinks its kind of cute. Not the times I'm canceling personal time to engross myself in a Benoit binge tho


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The world shuts down on 9/24.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> The world shuts down on 9/24.


:HHH2 _Dat HOF human being._

Blasphemy. You mean 9/17. GTA V :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> The world shuts down on 9/24.


I don't get the actual hard copy until Oct 14 but there's no way in fuck that I'm not watching the doc ASAP. I have class until 12.15pm on the 9/24. I'm going to lock myself in the library and come home late to give you yanks plenty of time to make it available for download. Then the world shuts down .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That's right. UK gets it later. SUCKAS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> That's right. UK gets it later. SUCKAS.


We always feckin' do :evil:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Some ratings for SD 2011 MITB? I give it a ****1/2, Sheamus and Bryan were great. Oh yeah, and taking out Sin Cara at the beginning was a good idea, he could have botched a big spot


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

**** for me. Lot of great spots and mini stories in the back half, one of only two MITB matches I still have at ****+. 

-----------------------

Any thoughts on Rebellion 2002? Obviously the Tag Title match is gonna be great but Tajiri/Rey/Noble & Lesnar/Edge look promising as well.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I love pimping Brock/Edge. It's a really good match, and unfortunately Edge went down with his neck injury not long after this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> **** for me. Lot of great spots and mini stories in the back half, one of only two MITB matches I still have at ****+.
> 
> -----------------------
> 
> Any thoughts on Rebellion 2002? Obviously the Tag Title match is gonna be great but Tajiri/Rey/Noble & Lesnar/Edge look promising as well.


Brock + Heyman vs Edge is great IMO, really good match, They meshed well in the ring, i always thought they had good chemistry tbh. :cool2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone on XWT is uploading ECW 08 :mark:. Got the first 3 eps so far. Can't wait until after Backlash so Chavo isn't in the title scene any more and we get HENRY.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I got banned on XWT because I was too lazy to upload stuff :lol

It's a bummer because they have awesome stuff


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I haven't used XWT in a while and my seeding still stands at 5.something so I've felt safe without having watching as intensely as before.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seen a few days ago that the invitation system is up on the XWT. Fuck


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My XWT accounts are fine (ECW 08 is currently freeleech for the first month btw), tis my PWT account I almost lost recently . Was told to seed Slammiversary 2013 for 72 hours... but I'd deleted the file AND the site ended up dying for months, so only just managed to do it. Of course I had to re-download the file again (I remember deleting it because it was out of sync, so fuck them for warning me over THAT torrent lol), and I don't leave my PC on constantly nor do I want it using bandwidth to upload constantly (screws up online games and slows down the download speed for other things), so it's taken me about 2 weeks to get it done :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Any thoughts on Rebellion 2002? Obviously the Tag Title match is gonna be great but Tajiri/Rey/Noble & Lesnar/Edge look promising as well.


Three Way match is awesome as you would assume. Definitely watch that one. Don't remember Brock vs Edge too vividly, but I know it's still worth the twenty minutes.



> Finlay Vs. Mr. Kennedy
> RAW 3/10/08
> 
> 4-on-2 Handicap Steel Cage Match
> ...


Finlay match lasts 14 seconds.

Handicap cage is boring and totally awful. Hate it.

Jericho vs MVP = :lmao b/c Porter can't work. Skip.

Orton vs Hardy is good.

Jericho vs Batista I haven't seen recently, but 99% sure it's still good in its own right too. Only watch the last two matches.



Callamus said:


> Someone on XWT is uploading ECW 08 :mark:. Got the first 3 eps so far. Can't wait until after Backlash so Chavo isn't in the title scene any more and we get HENRY.


YES YES YES YES :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched some Shield awesomeness today:

Shield/Happy Three Friends- EC 2013 ***1/2
Shield/Sheamus&Ryback&Y2J- ***1/4
Shield/Taker&Kane&Bryan- ***1/2
Shield/Cena&Bryan&Kane- ***3/4
Shield/Kofi&Bryan&Kane- ***3/4

That SHIELD


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still really like Shield/Super Friends (EC). Have it at least ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah some of those are low on the "star" system for me. The Elimination Chamber one & Hell No/dreadlock guy who does nothing ones for example are FABULOUS. Talking MOTY type quality.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Now I made it past One Night Stand, I finally got to rewatch the Edge/Benoit match that is Benoit's final appearance on Smackdown. Wow, this was a hell of a match and the finest performance of Benoit in the entire 2007. Triple Snap into Rolling Germans was awesome! And Edge held his own pretty well too. Sad to think that in three weeks, Smackdown would be opened by Vince's announcement about the tribute show. Now have to see what the Lashley match is like. If that one isn't that good, then this Edge match will go down as Benoit's last great match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

If it would be a most MOTY candidates award, it would definetely go to the Shield or Bryan this year


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

But Punk is the only one who has three matches (in my opinion) at ****1/4 or higher. I've got Punk's matches with Cena/Taker/Brock all at ****1/2.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I just randomly wiki'd Edge and he has won a total of 31 championships in his WWE career, that's not including his Royal Rumble, MITB, and KOTR wins. Damn.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Well, it's been a while since I posted here. My CPU fan was giving trouble for the longest while, neglected it, PC's been shutting off on its own for some time and now it looks as if my video card is blown 

So, I'm stuck with a laptop. AND I HATE LAPTOPS!!! Also, since my PC won't work, I can't access my wrestling. And no, I didn't back up.

So, in the meantime, YT is my only resort. I don't want to re-download files I already have to kill my ratio on XWT.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Youtube has a ton of stuff. Their are some PPVS that I have trouble finding. But I can find nearly anything on their.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all pimpin' Bryan and SierraHotelIndiaEchoLimaDelta and forgettin' about pimping Cesaro's work. He's had good stuff with ALL - even Piz, _Khali_KhilMe and *BO*refest.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Mankind V HBK Mind Games ****3/4

Maybe five stars if it wasn't for TEH RUN INZ!


Oh and the Bret V Bulldog from IYH is waaaaaaaaay better then the Summerslam match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Someone on XWT is uploading ECW 08 :mark:. Got the first 3 eps so far. Can't wait until after Backlash so Chavo isn't in the title scene any more and we get HENRY.


FUCKING FINALLY. Now I can put it all on disc and say I want to watch it while still not watching it....but I'll have it ON DISC!



Wait, flv? I hope I don't have to convert that.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

DailyMotion is a very good wrestling source too.

About Punk, yeah I agree that his Cena match is a ****1/2 one. Now about his Taker one, can't give it more than ****, I never thought for a second that the Streak is gonna end and that kinda killed it for me. ****3/4 for his Brock match, no comments there


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Kicking into this Best of Clash of the Champions DVD that's been sitting on Netflix for some time now. Now I can watch Flair/Funk I Quit in HD. Awesome. 

Actually there's a bunch of hot looking matches on this. I hope for anything that has Arn/Tully/Flair/Austin/Malenko/Eddie/Jericho in it. So much to see.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Don't think I have seen an Arn Anderson match in my life)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

watching the clash of champions too. already watched Flair/sting. on the second match(Till 8:30, then Pats/Jets :mark


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Unforgiven 2003 and 2005 sucked on paper but turned out to be okay shows IMO. Also had fantastic theme songs, especially 2003.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Marv95 said:


> Unforgiven 2003 and 2005 sucked on paper but turned out to be okay shows IMO. Also had fantastic theme songs, especially 2003.


Both of those PPVs had good undercards (Michaels/Masters, Hardy/Edge, Orton/Michaels, Christian/Jericho/RVD), but they both had legitimate DUDs for main events. Both HHH/Goldberg and Angle/Cena are candidates for worst main event feuds of the modern era.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle/Cena was alright. Their Survivor Series match was worse. Same goes for Goldberg/HHH. The UNF match was below average but SVS was pretty much a DUD. I don't know why funnyfaces loves hating on Cena, Batista and 2005 in general so much.

Been watching Jericho's Breaking the Code DVD for the past few hours. Now almost done with the second disc of matches. Really excited about rewatching the ladder match with HBK.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Anyone know what song is at the start of the Mid South set? I really love the groove of it. 

Amazing set BTW. Lots of fun old school shit but I'm a sucker for that stuff. Really hope we get a DiBiase set someday but this is probably the closest thing we will get. God what a fantastic worker, seller, heel, mic guy, etc. Criminally underrated.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

What's the general consensus on Benoit and Angle/Edge and Mysterio from No Mercy 02? Wrestling Observer had it as the match of the year that year. I thought it was a good match, but there were better matches that year like Lesnar/Rock, Taker/Lesnar, Elimination Chamber, etc. 

They had a 2/3 falls match a few weeks later too no?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The No Mercy tag is great but Brock/Taker HiaC is my fav match of 2002. I like Brock/Rock but you could make a case there were 3 matches better at that PPV alone.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's been years since I've seen it but unless my opinion drastically changes I definitely consider it one of (if not) the greatest straight up tag match in company history. It would be my MOTY for 2002 but I'm the crazy guy that gave Michaels/HHH from Summerslam *****, so that's like the default #1. It's probably #2 though just ahead of Taker/Brock HIAC and the original Chamber. 

Never saw their 2/3 Falls rematch.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd put HBK/HHH very close to the full 5.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alim said:


> What's the general consensus on Benoit and Angle/Edge and Mysterio from No Mercy 02? Wrestling Observer had it as the match of the year that year. I thought it was a good match, but there were better matches that year like Lesnar/Rock, Taker/Lesnar, Elimination Chamber, etc.
> 
> They had a 2/3 falls match a few weeks later too no?


★★★★½ for NM. ★★★¾ for 2/3 falls.

NM match is one of the easiest tag matches to watch. Flows so well and is entertaining throughout.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those matches are really piss poor, Alim. Some of the most overrated matches ever.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Looking at WWEShop.com because there's a NoC promotion (which happens to be shown in the ad above the quick reply box), and the NoC 2009 DVD is like 18 bucks, which is more expensive than any other year they have :lol

Think I might cave and get dat GTS hoodie


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Trying to make that great Mysterio vs Ziggler match hard to obtain.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Those matches are really piss poor, Alim. Some of the most overrated matches ever.


Cody once again hatin' on dem non-traditional Tagz and dem SPOTZ. Though tbpf, the NM tag did have a heart and a story: both teams had to throw everything into battlefield to become the 1st ever Tag champs - Edge & Rey as the unlikely underdog'ish duo, Angle & Benoit who hate each other's guts but have to coexist to avoid suspension. The match was fine based on that, and that the spots were nicely built to and sold. Overrated? Hell to the yes. Piss poor? Stop being so harsh Goddammit :side:


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

The No Mercy tag was absolutely fantastic. So much that I'd put it in the ***** category. A forgotten classic imo. 2002 had some GREAT matches after the brand split


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I ended up getting the hoodie CM Punk wears now. And I just realized that I'm exactly the kind of fan WWE caters to :side:

Fuck it, I'm gonna watch WM17 on DVD just because I can't sleep


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Have a good time watching the ****3/4 Austin/Rock match


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Undertaker vs. Mankind from the KOTR of 96 is a beauty of a match, overshadowed by their more memorable bouts in HIAC and Boiler Room Brawl. Spots perfectly executed to represent authentic hatred or so it seemed.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Armageddon 2000*

THE END IS HEEEERE. THE END IS HEEERE. THE END IS HEEERE. THE END IS HERE! THE END IS HEEEREE!

How creepy and awesome is that Armageddon song? Then they kill the mood with "Sweet Home Alabama" lol. Good song and they are in Alabama... but it's all happy and up beat... .


*The Hardy Boys & Lita Vs The Radicals - Elimination Match*

LIIIITA FAP FAP FAP FAP LIIIITA. The cell is as low down as Lita's trousers. But there be no thong poking out of the top, so LITA > HIAC.

Dayum, LITA looked amazing in that black dress she wore on the date with Malenko. Then DAYUM FAP FAP FAP at the outfit in the hotel room. Poor Dean. Wins a date with LITA legit, and those damn cock blocker Hardy Boys show up at the hotel room and attack Dean. I FEEL YOUR PAIN MALENKO.

Lol, Jeff flips over the ropes to get in the ring after a tag and he clears about 90% of the bloody ring! That be impressive.

Poor Eddie is the first to be eliminated after LITA gives him a Twist of Fate and Jeff Swantons him.

Kinda odd that they have an elimination tag match on PPV... a month after Survivor Series, the show that used to be based around elimination tag matches. Not the first time they've done this, and not the last though. Remember 2010? SummerSlam had that huge 7 on 7 WWE Vs Nexus Elimination Tag Match... then come Survivor Series... nothing. LOL.

Saturn gets eliminated and Terri shows her ass. Malenko rolls up Matt and now its down to Malenko and LTA. LITA in her blue thong and red lipstick. And slutty top that really shows off her tits. Why couldn't this be an Iron Man match? 

LITA holds her own (she can hold mine too if she wants  ) against Malenko and very nearly wins, but in the end she taps out to a Cloverleaf.

A nothing match really, but the last part with Malenko Vs LITA was cool, and this match has LITA looking HOT so I liked it .

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*William Regal Vs Hardcore Holly - European Championship Match*

2 PPV's in a row for these 2? Really? Makes sense to happen on this show with Holly being from Alabama, and with Crash winning the title from Regal last week only for Regal to cheat to win it back... but why Survivor Series? Whatevers. Better than a series of Naked Mideon matches.

:lmao at Regal calling the arena animal fuckers.

:lmao at Lawler making sheep noises throughout the match. I think we just discovered WOOLCOCK'S favourite match.

Lawler asks JR to compare the people from Sheffield (where the UK PPV was the week before) to the people in Alabama, their manners and shit. Uhhh... probably best to NOT open up that can of worms, Lawler .

Raven shows up and DDT's Holly and Regal gets the win. I... have no idea. At all. No memory of why that happened. This match was eh.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Chyna Vs Val Venis*

:lmao no thanks.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


IN RING PROMO AT A PPV. YEY. JUST WHAT EVERYONE PAID TO SEE. He doesn't want the HIAC match to take place in case one of his top stars gets injured and he loses money.


*Chris Jericho Vs Kane - Last Man Standing*

Again, this feud started over COFFEE.

They managed to surprise me at Survivor Series and had the MOTN there. Can the LMS do just as well? Probably not, but hey, I can hope and shit, right?

Woo, less than 1 minute into the match and they go backstage. And we don't get a camera in place for about another minute. Yey.

:lmao somehow Mideon gets caught up in the brawl and gets smacked about by both guys before they go back to each other.

Urgh. LMS was the worst gimmick they could have given this. Their SS match was great because it was a straight up fucking FIGHT, but the LMS gimmick keeps slowing down the action for those attempted 10 counts. Not to say that ALWAYS ruins a match because Jericho himself had a GREAT LMS match earlier in the year, but it just didn't work here at all. Should have been a street fight or something. Just let them FIGHT with no pointless rest spots.

Kane takes the worst DDP ever. He just bends over and smashes his hands on the mat then falls over sideways to the mat. Urgh.

I swear Teddy Long's "6" sounds just like a "10". 

Finish is shitty. They do that whole "drop something heavy to keep the big man down" thing but of course they have to do it in a way that's safe... but making it safe also makes it look fake as shit. We KNOW Kane isn't crushed under there because there is a gap the size of Darren Young's arsehole for Kane to sit in.

Boring, slow, disappointing.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


HBK AT WWF NEW YORK! He's talking HIAC.


*Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boys Vs The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs Road Dogg & K-Kwik - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

:lmao at Christian's face when Road Dogg & K-Kwik come to the ring signing. Pretty much sums up how I felt too.

Super fun spot with Road Dogg doing his Shake, Rattle and Roll punches, at the same time Bubba does his version. They are both about to land the final blow to Edge & Christian respectively, but notice what each other is doing and blast each other in the face instead! E&C cover each guy hoping for a win but they kick out. I like random shit like that. Makes me smile .

Yawn, K-Kwik is the major FIP for this match. He's as dull in 2000 as is he in 2013. :lmao he really hasn't improved in the slightest over the last 13 years.

Best part of K-Kwik FIP is when he tags out. Not just because he's not in the match any more, but just how it's done. He edges over to Road Dogg, but Christian pulls Dogg off the apron to avoid the tag, so K-Kwik ducks under a clothesline from Edge and tags in BUBBA on the other side instead! RTC/Road Dogg & K-Kwik all take each other out on the outside, leaving those damn Dudleys and E&C to go at it for the belts.

I THINK BUBBA'S GOT WOOD... ... ... ON HIS MIND!

I THINK DEVON'S GOT WOOD IN HIS HAND!

:lmao Bubba botched the 3-D. 

E&C pick up the win and become tag champs yet again .

This is fun for the most part. Could have done with someone else as the FIP but there was some good shit before then and the whole finishing stretch is super.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


They show about 5 "HIAC moments" throughout the night to hype the dangers of HIAC... and 3 of them are from the HHH/Cactus match from earlier in the year. Because, you know, they didn't have any others to use .


*Billy Gunn Vs Chris Benoit - Intercontinental Championship Match*

Finally, someone with potential on paper. Yeah, a Billy Gunn match with potential. I said it. I wouldn't call him great but he was decent. And Benoit is fucking BENOIT so a decent opponent for him is like the equivalent of Rock working Flair in his prime. If you get my meaning. I do but I don't know if I explained it right. Benoit is pretty good.

HE KNOWS WHERE TO TOUCH YOU.

Benoit targets the leg, which even JR questions given that Gunn had shoulder surgery earlier in the year and the Crossface makes use of bad shoulders...

:lmao at Gunn botching a tilt a whirl backbreaker. They blame it on the knee but in reality Billy just didn't catch Benoit properly .

Match overall is... not that good. Benoit works the leg instead of the shoulder, Billy hits all of his power moves and shit despite his leg being worked over, then Benoit wins with the Crossface anyway. This is Malenko working the arm of Rey Mysterio levels of stupidity. And nowhere near as fun because it doesn't have Rey.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Ivory Vs Trish Stratus Vs Molly Holly - WWF Women's Championship*

Yep, triple threat for the women's title. TRISH TITS. MOLLY TITS. FAP FAP.

Oh yeah, not watching btw :lmao. Finlay is still in WCW so the female wrestlers suck still.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin Vs Rikishi Vs Triple H Vs The Rock - WWF Championship Hell in a Cell Match*

Ahh, the days when they could do multiman matches with everyone involved being credible contenders. Yeah, even Rikishi at the time. Nowadays they struggle to give us a triple threat where all 3 are credible. Sometimes the CHAMPION isn't credible ffs. But here we have 6 guys. SIX.

Trips still using the evil version of My Time. Undertaker debuts Rollin here I believe. They haven't quite got the edit down yet though lol. 

:lmao at JR when talking about The Undertaker: THIS MAN DOESN'T HAVE LIMP BISCUIT LET ME TELL YOU.

BLOODY HELL. Rock was definitely popular as fuck in 2000, no doubt about it, but Austin's pop was UNREAL and made Rock's sound like utter silence.

:lmao is there something I don't know about Lloyds of London insurers? Because JR blasts them at one point when they are discussing why McMahon is worried about everyone's health in the match and it being to do with money and shit. Lawler wonders if even Lloyds of London would insure a HIAC match and JR fires back with some passion that "well sometimes they're pretty STUPID" :lmao.

So for the most part the match is like some weird sex party where everyone switches partners after a while, with only 2 getting to use the bed (the ring, duh. Uhhh... the wrestling ring, that is) at a time.

What is the Rock made of btw? Just curious because any time he hits the mat he just seems to BOUNCE back up. And not in a cool "taking a bump" way... but in a weird "how does that even work" way :lmao. It's like he's wrestling on a bouncy castle but nobody else is affected by it.

Vince eventually shows up with a truck and rips the door off, then tries to take the rest apart but Foley runs them off. Now the truck, complete with padding in the back is waiting conveniently for NO REASON AT ALL HONEST.

Police take Vince away, as he screams that this is his show and he owns it and shit. Which makes me wonder how Foley is able to do it because, well, Vince is RIGHT lol. He's the fecking CHAIRMAN of the company, and Foley is just the commissioner of the show. WRESTLING LOGIC~!

With the door now gone, everyone spills out of the HIAC... just because I guess. Results in some cool brawling, along with a great spot where Austin uses a camera to smash HHH's knee, and we get a replay of it from the actual camera lol. Then Austin's face gets smashed through a car window. Ha.

PEDIGREE TO THE ROCK ON TOP OF A CAR. Shame Rock sucks at taking a Pedigree lol. Not just on a car either, which I could understand, but he just plain sucks at taking that move.

WWE need to have more interesting stage sets like this again. All the broken cars and barrels and shit everywhere made for some cool MAYHEM (remember that game? Was awesome. Played it to DEATH until Smackdown came out).

HHH climbs the cage to escape Austin, so Austin climbs up the other side. Because, you know, the only place to get away from someone safely is to climb a great height with nowhere else to go. WRESTLING LOGIC~!

Angle has the same thought as he climbs the cage to escape Undertaker. Who is like, THE WORST GUY to have follow you on top of the cell given his history lol. Kurt Angle, Olympic MORON.

Speaking of morons, why on EARTH would Rikishi of all people think that climbing the cage is a good idea. He's 400+lb, he can barely climb the damn thing, not the best escape plan. PLUS he's trying to escape THE ROCK. LOL.

Undertaker threatens the time keeper and gets a chair thrown up, while Rock, surprisingly, is the only smart guy in the match as he doesn't even bother to climb the cage after Rikishi lol. 

Does make me laugh that the build up for this match + stuff during the match is all about how Vince is worried about the financial loss if one of his top stars gets injured during this match... and then the guy that DOES take the big bump is... RIKISHI! And everyone is like "eh, he didn't draw shit so fuck him" :lmao. Anyway, padding or not, it was still a pretty awesome bump for a guy the size of Rikishi to take. THE ONLY ONE MAN ENOUGH. Rock wasn't even man enough to climb to the top. CORWARDLY CUNT. And as a result Rock is the one that gets pinned to end the match and help Angle retain the title. FUCK YOU ROCK.

Tons and tons and tons of fun. 6 guys, everyone with some kind of history with each other aside from Undertaker and Rikishi (until the cell bump in this match lol), all trying to MURDER each other to gain the WWF Title. No complaints from me here. Always did like this match and still do.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 4*​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Really looking forward to the weekend. Insidious 2, NOC, and wrestling!

Getting into clash of champions set when I get home. It's official that late 80s -mid 90s WCW/NWA was better than WWF


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I still don't understand the Cal scale. Does it weigh other things too?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The CAL SCALE is this:

NO = -1
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9

So I just give a certain number of points based on the star rating a match gets. Simples.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> The CAL SCALE is this:
> 
> NO = -1
> DUD-* = 0
> ...



I love how you have "NO" as a rating below DUD, :lmao

What's the highest rated PPv you have done the Cal scale with? I'd like to see what Bret Hart at KoR 1993 gets, he's gotta be worth about 21 points on the Cal scale alone for his 3 brilliant matches that night (9 for Hennig, 5 for Razor, 7 for Bam Bam).

Watching and absolutely LOVING this Mid-South set. Terry mother fucking Gordy and the Midnight mother fucking Express are just where it's AT. Jack.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Highest rated show would be WM 19 with 29.5 on the CAL SCALE.

NO has to be below DUD since the match is so horrible on paper I can't even bring myself to watch it . At least a DUD gets a DUD because I was able to sit through it. Deserves to be higher just on that fact alone .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No= all khali and hornswoggle matches correct?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope. I'd gladly watch like, 2 Khali matches .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Survivor Series 1994 thoughts? Iirc Bret/Backlund was fucking awesome, don't remember a damn thing other than that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have little memory of a lot of the older Survivor Series events. Hell I probably haven't even seen a lot of them in full. Something for me to do next year along with SummerSlam, like I did this year for RR and WM lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Survivor Series 1994 thoughts? Iirc Bret/Backlund was fucking awesome, don't remember a damn thing other than that.



There is one Bret/Backlund match that is really sweet, then another where they only can do submissions that sucks so bad I couldn't even watch the whole thing. One was at Mania the other Survivor Series. I think the Survivor Series one is the one I liked, where Owen convinces Helen Hart to throw the towel in?? Anyways I don't remember anything else from that event, sorry 

And I suppose the Cal scale has its merits, as WM19 is my all time favorite show. Obviously it's all subjective, but I do love reading you're reviews of shows, I haven't watched anything from 2000 since it happened live except for probably 2 dozen PPV matches from DVD sets. It's easy to forget how ridiculous and far out the story lines they had back then were. :lmao at Malenko going on a date with Lita.

Speaking of dates, one of my all time favorite Eddie skits involved him passing his GED course and taking Chyna to the prom, I believe it was in 2000 as well. He even wrestled that night in a tux:lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, the Bret/Backlund with the Owen towel segment is the Survivor Series one.

Cal, older Survivor Series = awesome stuff. Especially the first three ones (87, 88 and 89).


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

watched 2012 RAW MITB last night, for the first time, it was alright . ***1/2 match at least.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

cjack828 said:


> There is one Bret/Backlund match that is really sweet, then another where they only can do submissions that sucks so bad I couldn't even watch the whole thing. One was at Mania the other Survivor Series. I think the Survivor Series one is the one I liked, where Owen convinces Helen Hart to throw the towel in?? Anyways I don't remember anything else from that event, sorry
> 
> And I suppose the Cal scale has its merits, as WM19 is my all time favorite show. Obviously it's all subjective, but I do love reading you're reviews of shows, I haven't watched anything from 2000 since it happened live except for probably 2 dozen PPV matches from DVD sets. It's easy to forget how ridiculous and far out the story lines they had back then were. :lmao at Malenko going on a date with Lita.
> 
> Speaking of dates, one of my all time favorite Eddie skits involved him passing his GED course and taking Chyna to the prom, I believe it was in 2000 as well. He even wrestled that night in a tux:lol


The Eddie thing happens at Backlash . That's on my "to do" list.

As for Bret/Backlund, it will have been SS you liked over the WM match. WM match is TERRIBLE. Like, worst match EVER for either man.

Hmmm... what 2000 PPV to watch next. FL is gonna be last. Backlash probably before that since it's fresh in my mind because I've seen it that many times. NWO or JD? Need to see if I have to download Insurexxion and Rebellion first, think I got em on disc somewhere but fuck knows . Too lazy to look. Might go with NWO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Yes, the Bret/Backlund with the Owen towel segment is the Survivor Series one.
> 
> Cal, older Survivor Series = awesome stuff. Especially the first three ones (87, 88 and 89).


I've got like, the first 2, maybe first 4 on Tagged Classic discs so I've seen most of them, it's mainly the early to mid 90's ones I'm clueless about aside from like one or two matches lol. In fact I think I own ALL SS and SS on copy somewhere but I just never watched em. Think I only got em in some big trade with someone because there was fuck all else I wanted at the time . When I can be arsed I'll have to dig out all my footage .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well then Big Cal, you have no fucking idea what you're missing 

You imagine in 1987 a show that's pretty much twice as good as WM 3? Yeah, SVS was it. From top to bottom, very good show. And then in 1988, you have another very fun show, with the single most INSANE SVS match ever - The Rockers, The Hart Foundation, The Barbarians, The Young Stallions and The British Bulldogs vs. The Brain Busters, Demolition, The Bolsheviks, The Fabulous Rougeaus and the original Los Conquistadores. This match here was pure, raw MADNESS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A show TWICE AS GOOD as WM 3? So it's still shit? :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> The Eddie thing happens at Backlash . That's on my "to do" list.
> 
> As for Bret/Backlund, it will have been SS you liked over the WM match. WM match is TERRIBLE. Like, worst match EVER for either man.
> 
> Hmmm... what 2000 PPV to watch next. FL is gonna be last. Backlash probably before that since it's fresh in my mind because I've seen it that many times. NWO or JD? Need to see if I have to download Insurexxion and Rebellion first, think I got em on disc somewhere but fuck knows . Too lazy to look. Might go with NWO.


NWO has the top 5 HiaC match obviously, along with my favorite Foley moment (him tearing up as he walks down the aisle covered in blood, while Jim Ross calls it from commentary). I'd love to read your review of that tremendous piece of work. What a badass way to go out, too bad Vince had to ruin it with that Mania 2000 match. I wish Foley would have retired after NWO, come back for his 2 matches in 2004, then retired for good after Mania 22. The problem is I love ONS 2006, the most barbaric spectacle ever aired on WWE television. And I Quir with Flair is no slouch eithe, easily the best match at Summerslam 2006.. It just seemed so right seeing Foley walk up the aisle with blood thickly coagulated on his face, finally getting his time on the biggest stage by stealing the show at Wrestlemania on a card including matches with Taker, Michaels, and Hunter. Edge was a freaking mess after that one, good lord I thought he was gonna collapse and die on me after he got that 3 count.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Callamus said:


> A show TWICE AS GOOD as WM 3? So it's still shit? :lmao


:lol :lol :lol

That's exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> A show TWICE AS GOOD as WM 3? So it's still shit? :lmao


:hmm:

Thank God you certainly got a point there. I used "Twice as good" for a small idea, since I feared you'd rebel against me like ANYONE who I have talked to and dared to say WM 3 sucked. It's like six times as good :avit:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

God this Mid-South set is wonderful.

I'm watching a match now, Midnight vs Rock n Roll Express. Jim Cornette has had his head shaved, put a mask on, been put in a straight jacket, then strapped into a cherry picker and elevated 30 feet above the ring so he cannot interfere :lmao


Why don't we do stuff like this anymore? You're telling me you wouldn't pay to see Heyman get shaved, put in a straight jacket, and lifted 30 feet above the ring so he can't interfere in the Punk vs Axel match? Come on.

The match itself is fabulous, as is anything involving these two teams. The Midnight Express with Eaton and Condrey is one of my 5 favorite tag teams ever, and the Rock n Rollers are a top 5 baby face tag team, Morton especially was just a wonderful worker, could bump and sell like no ones business. Love his matches with Flair. Anyway, the match gets started and Rob/Ricky get the early advantage kicking ass and booting the ME out of the ring. The match begins with Bobby and Ricky squaring off, until Bobby tags Dennis without Ricky seeing. This allows ME to gain the advantage and start putting a good old fashioned ass whipping on these pretty boy Rock n Rollers. ME execute some classic heel psychology and get this crowd even more heated than they already are. Condrey and Eaton take turns tagging in and out to keep putting the beat down on Ricky will Robert is begging for the smoking hot tag.

Let me just pause for a second to acknowledge of the greatness of Bobby Eaton. This guy NEVER gets brought up when the great workers of the 80s are discussed, and it's a god damned tragedy. He can brawl, he can get on the mat and just go, and he can work some GREAT high spots. He knows how to sell for the faces and bumps his ass off when the time is right, but always does a perfect job of keeping himself situated as a viable threat. It's a delicate balancing act to be a credible heel in the 80s when you aren't a huge strong guy, and Bobby Eaton did it as well as anyone. Seriously, you guys need to get on this guy. This Mid-South set is just reminding me how criminally underrated Eaton, Gordy, DiBiase, Jake Roberts, and Ricky Morton are. These guys would excel in any era because they are just that damn good.

Ok back to the match. ME continues to put on a clinic of tag team heel psychology 101 for an 80s team, allowing small glimmers of hope that Ricky is gonna get the tag only to shut it down with an even stronger beat down. Robert Gibson has evolved from a mere smoking hot tag to an all out nuclear tag, as soon as Ricky gets to him the roof is going to blow off of this place. Finally Ricky back drops Condrey and Gibson gets tagged in. The place goes ballistic. Robert starts throwing lefts and rights to Bobby and Dennis, who keep feeding Robert and getting the crowd even louder and louder. Morton comes back in to work 2 on 2, but accidentally bumps the ref as Robert executes a sunset flip on Eaton, causing the ref to miss the obvious 1-2-3. Condrey grabs the refs belt and starts doubling up Robert with Bobby. The ref turns around in time to catch ME using his belt to clothesline Robert, causing a DQ.

What a great match, these two teams are just incapable of anything other than excellence. The funny thing is they have probably had 100 matches that were better than this one, and this one still delivers. Just a basic story told in the best way possible.

This Mid-South set was the best $22 I've spent in a while.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret/hakushi was a pretty nifty match, starts off technical and end in fast paced high flying 

I got a question for you guys in here, has any of your taste in wrestling changed overtime or suddenly ? I'm not one to explain things well so I'm use myself as a example. I use to LOVE technical wrestling, like love it, watched and liked kurt angle/ benoit matches,liked hbk/angle and hbk/bret, loved bret/owen and most bret hart matches and etc. Nowadays I pretty much hate technical wrestling and if a match starts off with like 10 different holds I turn it off


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

You seem to be the reverse trend of what everyone on here enjoys. Seems like most people used to love spotfests and now enjoy the technical prowess of LEGIT WORKERS~!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just like good matches and hate bad matches. Doesn't matter to me if they go to the mat or punch each other in the face or fly from a ladder; if it's good it's GOOD and if it's bad it's BAD.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Agreed w/Cal.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Seriously ? like I rather watch a Henry (bad example because everyone here loves him) vs. big show match that all they do is try to knock each others head off with blows instead of lets say bret/benoit submission match ?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I hear ya Cal, just noticed that about myself, like another example is I understand he is great at what he does, but I really don't get into many Regal matches, because there so mat-based

Sorry about the dpost


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal mat based matches are GOAT. Along with Finlay ones. Usually more gritty and gnarly than the likes of Bret and Angle etc. I love me some Regal. NASTY~!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It all depends on if the match warrants technical wrestling or not. For example, it worked so beautifully with Punk/Bryan OTL12 because the feud heading in to the match was centered around who was the best wrestler in the world, and if they just came out of the blocks and started knocking each other loopy with punishing blows, it wouldn't have made sense. On the other hand, if Punk/Jericho ER12 started with 10 minutes of technical wrestling and hold-trading, instead of beating the ever loving shit out of each other, it would have been complete bullshit because the feud was so intense and so personal and no matter how swanky the technical exchanges may have looked, it simply wouldn't have suited the match or the feud.

It really does depend. 

Also, +1 to what Cal said.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I can't stand most regal matches, except his one with ohno. 

He's a great wrestler but I find his style too mat based and a little boring.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, if I'm watching a mat-based match, I'd prefer a bit of grittiness to them, a la Regal/Finlay or Regal/Ambrose or Regal/Ohno. Basically, just REGAL.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't have a preference, I love good story telling, good technical wrestling, slug festa with 2 big bastards trying to annihilate each other, wild brawls, gimmick matches, spotfests, anything really, as long as its done in a way that is compelling and entertaining. My favorite guys to watch are Eddie, Foley, Rey, Regal, Taker, Savage, Flair, Benoit, Finlay, and HBK. Those guys could NOT be anymore different from each other.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Finally got to Flair/Funk I Quit last night. So that's an awesome match. It's amazing to me how things have changed so much. I Quit matches during this time were just straight forward fights, with the guys just beating the hell out of each other with their own hands. Of course these guys used the barricade and the table for a cool spot, but this just a fun fucking fight. 

I have gotten used to the WWF/E style over the years, but I still enjoy these old school type matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Your top 10 favorite Rock matches Cal aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand go.............???????????


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Finally got to Flair/Funk I Quit last night. So that's an awesome match. It's amazing to me how things have changed so much. I Quit matches during this time were just straight forward fights, with the guys just beating the hell out of each other with their own hands. Of course these guys used the barricade and the table for a cool spot, but this just a fun fucking fight.
> 
> I have gotten used to the WWF/E style over the years, but I still enjoy these old school type matches.


Flawless 5 star classic. The NWA was fucking epic that year. WWF after WM5 was just awful for the most part.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Not Cal, but I'm gonna tell you that no match of Rocky is as good as his WM matches against Austin. Then his IM match with HHH and that phenomenal I Quit match with Foley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10 Rock matches? Sure.

1. Vs Austin WM 19 - ****1/2
2. Vs HHH JD Iron Man 00 - ****1/2 (we shall see if this still holds up when I get to it lol)
3. Vs Austin WM 17 - ****1/2
4. Vs HHH BL 00 - ****1/4
5. Vs Benoit FL 00 - ****

After that things get hazy .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Didn't like the Jericho NM '01 match?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

No star ratings at the moment, but favorite Rock matches:

vs Triple H Summerslam 1998
vs Triple H Backlash 2000
vs Triple H JD 2000
vs Austin WM 19
vs Austin WM 17
vs Jericho (I think No Mercy 2001)

Haven't seen the Benoit match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot about the Jericho matches. Liked both NM and RR.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Favourite Rock matches by year:

1997: vs HHH IYH Final Four
1998: vs Mankind Survivor Series (Have not seen the Summerslam match with HHH yet)
1999: vs Mankind Royal Rumble I Quit match
2000: vs HHH Backlash 
2001: vs Austin WM 17
2002: vs Lesnar Summerslam 
2003: vs Austin WM 19


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Callamus said:


> Top 10 Rock matches? Sure.
> 
> 1. Vs Austin WM 19 - ****1/2
> 2. Vs HHH JD Iron Man 00 - ****1/2 (we shall see if this still holds up when I get to it lol)
> ...


Updated after peoples reminded me of other matches lol.

1. Vs Austin WM 19 - ****1/2
2. Vs HHH JD Iron Man 00 - ****1/2
3. Vs Austin WM 17 - ****1/2
4. Vs Brock Lesnar SS 02 - ****1/4
5. Vs HHH BL 00 - ****1/4
6. Vs Benoit FL 00 - ****
7. Vs Undertaker Vs Angle Vengeance 02 - ****

Then things like Vs Mankind, Vs Jericho and a couple of other matches might go after, but they are under **** and I just don't remember them well enough.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What about King of the Ring match with Undertaker? Cal should like that one. 

That one is decent but obviously not in the top 10 for The Rock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like the KOTR and NWO matches with Rock/Undertaker but neither would be top 10. Top 20 quite easily for the guy, but not top 10 . They'd struggle for top 50 Undertaker matches though. Maybe even top 75 .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The best Rock/Taker match was in 2000 at a random RAW show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I like the KOTR and NWO matches with Rock/Undertaker but neither would be top 10. Top 20 quite easily for the guy, but not top 10 . They'd struggle for top 50 Undertaker matches though. Maybe even top 75 .


Undertaker's career is over twenty years long, Rock only wrestled actively for 7 years. Large difference there!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker's last 7 years have produced more good matches than Rock's entire career though .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is it just me or is this PPV Sunday going to suck balls?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well on paper it looks dreadful, so yeah, probably will suck. I don't even have much faith in Bryan/Orton tbh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Taker top 10 would be rough.

Off top of head:

Michaels x3
Hunter x2
Angle 06
Brock HIAC
Batista Mania

then idk, def forgetting gems.

edit Same here. Screwy finish, no doubt. That'd be the only match I'd look forward to if I didn't already know the finish.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> The best Rock/Taker match was in 2000 at a random RAW show.







Never seen it, guess i should.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KANE had a couple of matches with Rock on TV in 00 that are probably better than all the Undertaker/Rock matches .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Almost home, can't wait to watch flair/funk which is the next match on the clash of chanpions set! :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Never seen it, guess i should.


 It's not that one. I searched for the match I was talking about on YT but it got deleted. However, if you skip to 1 hour: 48 minutes to the RAW show below then you can watch the match (Y)






Kane vs Rock matches are usually solid. My favourite one is a title match in 2000 where Taker interferes to help the Rock out. Funny how it took one chokeslam from the Undertaker, two Rock bottoms and one People's Elbow to beat Kane.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished downloading The Ladder Match. Too bad the quality is not that great. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Is it just me or is this PPV Sunday going to suck balls?


I just care about Orton vs Bryan. I believe they can put together something great.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, but we all know this is only the first of likely many Bryan/Orton matches. Probably ends in DQ or something ridiculous with 50 run-ins.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Finished downloading The Ladder Match. Too bad the quality is not that great.


Found The Ladder Match and the Elimination Chamber Anthology at Wal-Mart a few months back for really cheap, fortunately. 

Just watched Brock Lesnar: Here Comes the Pain. Pretty awesome little one hour show, and it's cool to see Gerald Brisco and Pat Patterson talking about him. And Hurricane with braces :lol

Cena is on it talking about how he though Brock would be the future of the company (ironic how that worked out). Pretty cool to hear like Mike Chioda talking about Brock. Also, Brock doing his shuffle at like, age 15 when he was super skinny is weird.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

For the first time in a while, I am just going to read up on the results online afterwards. Haven't done this since... last year's No Way Out.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> It's not that one. I searched for the match I was talking about on YT but it got deleted. However, if you skip to 1 hour: 48 minutes to the RAW show below then you can watch the match (Y)
> 
> Kane vs Rock matches are usually solid. My favourite one is a title match in 2000 where Taker interferes to help the Rock out. Funny how it took one chokeslam from the Undertaker, two Rock bottoms and one People's Elbow to beat Kane.


Ah, thanks bud. Owe ya some rep


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Top Rocky Matches:

1. Vs Stone Cold at Mania19
2. Vs Stone Cold at Mania 17
3. Vs Benoit Fully Loaded 2000
4. Vs Jericho NM01'
5. Vs Foley I Quit

Top Undertaker Matches

1. Vs HBK HiaC
2. Vs HBK WM25
3. Vs HBK WM26
4. Vs Brock HiaC
5. Vs Foley HiaC


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is it just me or is this PPV Sunday going to suck balls?


Makes you miss Cena & Sheamus a lot more, huh?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena I can live without for a little longer. At least the main event scene is fresh. Sheamus can hurry back, though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> - It was noted on last night's episode of Wrestling Observer Radio that there was talk within WWE about dropping the "Hell in a Cell" themed pay-per-views after this year. The match itself would not go away, but it be used more as a gimmick match on a pay-per-view instead of it's own event. Dave Meltzer noted that it something that has been discussed in the past as well.
> 
> Source: F4WOnline


Hope something actually comes of this. HIAC should be a surprise match and a the ending of a big feud, and the PPV was hurting it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Now to consider dropping ALL the gimmick match PPV's. Leaving us with just the RR, and then Survivor Series so long as they like, actually put some effort into having elimination tags a big part of it again. Oh an EC. I'm fine with that one still.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

One thing that I don't about EC is the timing of it. Right between the Royal Rumble and WM. Makes the Rumble feel _slightly_ less important because the wrestlers know that there is another chance where they could compete for the world title at Mania. Am I the only one that feels this way?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I like Extreme Rules, MITB and EC. Rest can go.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Your not fine with TLC and MITB? TLC has been good the last 3 events and MITB has always been an awesome PPV

HIAC and ER would be the only ones I'd drop. replacing HIAC with Cyber Sunday and ER with Backlash. And I'd rather have NWO than EC personally


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Placement of the EC PPV has never bothered me, but I wouldn't be opposed to it moving. Maybe tie it in with Survivor Series, since it's an elimination match AND it originated there. They could give us an EC match for EITHER the WWE or WHC (not both, just ONE, whichever happens to have the better contenders/better angles going on at the time), then fill the rest of the show with a couple of elimination tag matches (they don't ALL have to be like 8 man matches, maybe just one big one and then a 2 on 2 elimination or something), and from time to time triple threat elimination/fatal four way elimination matches for a midcard title/#1 contendership at the next PPV. Just SOMETHING to bring back the importance of the show AND give us some more fun elimination matches WITH variety. Even if they did have the roster to do multiple 4 on 4 elimination matches throughout the night, I don't think it would work in this day and age.

EDIT: TLC PPV's have sucked mostly. Usually just a one match show tbh. MITB I'd rather just be one match a year and back at WM.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

EC, EX, and maybe mitb can stay, the rest can go, whats so great about the TLC ppv ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hate the placement of Elimination Chamber.

and please. Don't mention Cena & Sheamus right now. Not coping well with them stuck on the IR at this time. Henry too. </3


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oliver-94 said:


> One thing that I don't about EC is the timing of it. Right between the Royal Rumble and WM. Makes the Rumble feel _slightly_ less important because the wrestlers know that there is another chance where they could compete for the world title at Mania. Am I the only one that feels this way?


Tbh, it has been this way even before Elimination Chamber was placed between RR and WM. It started when they created a second title. Through that, the Rumble winner always gets a shot at the title they choose which leaves the #1 contender for the other one to be chosen another way, meaning they still have a second chance.

I'm fine with EC. And Extreme Rules shouldn't be dropped because the PPV has been pretty consistent and it's not specific to one gimmick, it's just a PPV where most matches are done under various gimmick which is cool. TLC and HIAC need to be done away with. MITB should also return to Wrestlemania.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I've always liked TLC. 2010 had Morrison vs Sheamus and the WHC fatal four way ladder match. 2011 had the triple threat WWE title match and a DB cash in. 2012 had Shield/Team Hell no + Ryback, Show/Sheamus, and Ziggler/Cena. only 2009 sucked and that still had a halfway decent Taker/Batista match with another *** match in Sheamus/Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB is the only one I like. b/c it always delivers and it's more emphasis than having it at WM. Although, the best thing about having it at Mania was getting more guys on the card who should be. Doesn't matter as WM is the place for the part timers to get all the exposure, so who cares. MITB is the best gimmick PPV around. It's actually moved past being a straight up "gimmick" show into an event that is a big deal each summer. Summer tends to hit you with a one, two punch: MITB followed by SummerSlam. I love it.

Extreme Rules is like WWE's version of Lockdown. So many gimmick matches yet so little of them are worth seeing. 2012 is the only one where the show was good from top to bottom.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of ER and MITB, I might start going through the PPV's I missed tonight. Bit of a break from the 00 PPV's. I like to mix shit up. Might actually sit through Lesnar/HHH cage this time around :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/lesnar dicussion ? NO NO NO ! :bryan

Jk I might watch that cage match again, I HATED extreme rules this year good lord horrible show


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1 hour 15 minutes into ER already and I only started watching it!!! 

First match I'm interested in seeing: Team Hell No Vs THE SHIELD.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ER was my first PPV back after I had taken a 2 year break from the WWE( that first stint was only a few months though). Im gonna watch it again soon, because I had a terrible stream and missed Orton/Show and connection was terrible for HHH/Lesnar.

But yeah, skip Swagger/ADR and Sheamus/Henry. Those are SO BAD

I actually liked Cena/Ryback. *** 1/4* from me which is good considering I was expecting a dud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ok, so Rollins & Reigns Vs Team Hell No might be a contender for top sub-10 minute match. DAMN, that was some awesome, awesome shit. Roman was MVP of the match too. YOU TRY TO BREAK MY ARM? I'M GONNA BREAK YOUR FACE! He was just all sorts of awesome throughout. Looked away for a second and saw Bryan give a hurricanrana off the ropes to who I thought was Rollins. He took a killer bump from it and nearly cleared the entire fucking ring. Then I noticed it was ROMAN and not Rollins. HOLY FUCK. Tons of awesome action given the time they got, plus some cool little moments like Kane trying to prevent Rollins from getting into the ring to break up a No Lock, and the bit where Reigns realises he's all alone after Rollins takes a Chokeslam and it out for the time. And as good as this is, it probably wouldn't even break the top 10 Shield tag matches!

Next up is... Brock/HHH. Damn, this PPV card is DULL AS FUCK on paper. Fuck everything else lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Best of WCW: clash of the champions review​*
*Disc one​*
*Match # 1: Ric Flair vs Sting- singles match for the WHC( COTC I)
*

I have heard that this match is the shit, so high expectations going in. JJ Dillon is ascended in a cage above the ring and there is a 45 minute time limit, so some unusual stips here. It was a very long match as they went the whole 45 minutes and the match was declared a draw. This was an excellent wrestling match IMO. These two were in their prime and a match of this pace was most likely very rare back in the late 80’s. This match was really good though, I knew they would go all the way, but I still managed to find myself entertained throughout the match. The beginning was a little slow and some could certainly call it boring but after the first 5-10 minutes the action really picked up and it became a great back and forth match. **** ½*

*Match # 2: Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger & Barry Windham- COC I*

This was such a FUN match. It got some decent time and didn’t really drag on too much. The pacing in this match was really good and I thin the crowd was really into it. However, JR on commentary is gold! ***

*Match # 3: Arn Anderson & Tully Blanchard vs. Sting & Dusty Rhodes- COC II
*
Kind of similar to the previous match, but not as fast paced as Dusty is a little past his prime here but he can still put on an entertaining match. Anderson and Blanchard don’t get a ton of offense in because Sting and Dusty beat them down pretty much the whole match. Ric Flair eventually gets involved and Anderson and Blanchard lose by DQ. 

*Match # 4: Ricky Morton Vs. Ivan Koloff – chain match (Clash of the Champions III)
*

The modern day strap match is apparently based off of this chain match. This match was pretty Okay, nothing great, the chain wasn’t in use a lot and the idea of the four corners finish was bad in 1989, and its still bad today :lol. If it was a chain match with pinfalls it would be better. Their was some type of heel turn after it as well, which was cool I guess. ** ½* 

*
Match # 5: Terry Funk vs Ric Flair- I quit match( COC IX)
*

this is gonna be good! I am one of the few never to have seen this match and I am really pumped to watch it :mark:. This was just so amazing and it is probably match of the DVD by far. It was just a brutal match and the crowd was so into it and for a match in the early 1990s, it had an awesome pace. Words cannot describe the greatness of this match, you just NEED to see it. **** ¾*

*Match # 6: Cactus Jack vs Mil Mascaras *

Wow I have never Heard of this match but I know Mascaras I know is a legend yet I have never seen a match of his. But this match sucked, and most likely was just to get Foley’s name on the back of the box(see HBK in the recent Mid south DVD). *

*Match # 7: The Midnight express vs the rock n roll express- tag match*

These two teams had amazing chemistry; I’m guessing they worked together a to back then. Once again Jim Ross on commentary is orgasmic. This is a fairly standard tag team match, elevated slightly because the teams work so well together. ***

Taking a break from this to watch NWO 2001. Hopefully will get disc 2 up soon!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Personally I'd knock at least * from Sting/Flair (not a fan of any of their matches), and give it to the tag match (Arn & Tully/Windham & Luger). Love the tag match. MOLTEN fucking crowd and just pure awesomeness. A fav tag match of mine. Check out the Windham turn tag match too, can't remember when it happens but that's some good shit as well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that sting/flair match is soo boring, cant sit through, that tag is pretty good, and the flair/funk match is out of this world


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Bret/hakushi was a pretty nifty match, starts off technical and end in fast paced high flying


Was that their RAW or their IYH match? How would you rate it in terms of stars?

@ rep, I understand your feelings about Austin/Rock WM 17, and I can see why people give it the full five stars. It kind of falls into the same category as Cena/Punk MITB for me. I wouldn't really rate it a five star match, but the whole circumstances, environment, epic feel, etc., contribute to it coming off so well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Was that their RAW or their IYH match? How would you rate it in terms of stars?
> 
> @ rep, I understand your feelings about Austin/Rock WM 17, and I can see why people give it the full five stars. It kind of falls into the same category as Cena/Punk MITB for me. I wouldn't really rate it a five star match, but the whole circumstances, environment, epic feel, etc., contribute to it coming off so well.


IYH, in flakes you say ? ah ***1/2-3/4 range, I dug it perfect time, and they got to do everything they needed to

IDK if your talking to me about the rock/austin ? never saw 17 so that probably someone else your talking about ?
--

About NOC 13, not looking forward to it at all, but when randy orton is in the supposed best match on the card, you know your in for trouble

Since were talking abut NOC how damn good is ziggler/rey from the 2009 show ? Good lord this is great


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well HHH/Lesnar cage sucked. Heyman was the best part of the match, and he was just the manager outside for the most part lol. Ah well, at least I've finally seen it. That's... something, right?


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

SPOILERS


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cal, what didn't you like about Trips/Lesnar in the cage?

Also, just checked the match listing for the Trips doc, and it's pretty disappointing. It's got the Iron Man with Rock, the LMS with Orton at No Mercy, the Unforgiven 2000 match with Angle (which I like, but not many others do), the Backlash 2001 tag. That's 4 out of 12. Expected better from the Game. Also, the WM 29 match with Lesnar is the Blu-Ray exclusive.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Cal, what didn't you like about Trips/Lesnar in the cage?


What didn't I like? Easier to say what I did like. I liked Heyman. Everything else was just blagh. HHH attacks Lesnar's leg and... uhhh... that's like 99% of the match. And it isn't like HHH is setting the world on fire with leg work.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Brock's selling though. Sells it all the way to the end. F-5 ON ONE LEG


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rewatching RR 2001.....now

Such a brilliant PPV.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Flatbush Zombies are smarks. I'm done.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Someone give me series (nothing more than 2-3 matches) to watch, preferably wwe and something I havent seen


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

How Trips/Y2J LMS didn't make this set makes no sense to me.


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Someone give me series (nothing more than 2-3 matches) to watch, preferably wwe and something I havent seen


Not WWE, but tell me if Shawn can do this in the ring:

1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U28pyOAMXcI 
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBBiCt9az9A


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on NWO 2001 and backlash 2001?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Someone give me series (nothing more than 2-3 matches) to watch, preferably wwe and something I havent seen


Paul London vs Akio. :mark:

Edit: Nevermind, just saw that you said nothing more than 2-3 matches. Still give it a watch though. :agree:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Someone give me series (nothing more than 2-3 matches) to watch, preferably wwe and something I havent seen


How bout Punk vs. Batista? http://profightdb.com/wrestler_search/c-m-punk-467.html?opp=357

_SPOILER ALERT~~~ Not a single one of their matches ever ended in a clean finish. The two from '08 are both great iirc._


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont watch TNA, Ive seen that three way, its pretty good

punk/batista it is, how many matches is london/akio ?

Edit: wait ziggler is on sd


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal thinks the SummerSlam Brock vs Trips match is awesome, but dislikes Extreme Rules.

oh buddy. I don't know what to say.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Cm punk vs. Batista *

GAB 08 ***3/4
RAW 08 *** 3/4
sd 09 ***​
- very fun little series of matches, mainly the 08 ones. If I had to choose I'll go with the raw match being the best of their series by a hair. I think the thing is both of their styles go very well with each other. I need to check out that whole GAB 08 ppv as This is good and the hbk/y2j Cody adores. Need to watch some more Batista 08 as Ive liked alot of his matches that year, Thanks to Corey for the rec


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal thinks the SummerSlam Brock vs Trips match is awesome, but dislikes Extreme Rules.
> 
> oh buddy. I don't know what to say.


And I don't think he liked their Wrestlemania match. Your shit is all messed up Cal, that's the only awesome one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Adores needs to be in quotations. :hmm:

Punker vs Batista from that show is rockin. Would be MOTN for me if I didn't love that wild Cena vs JBL parking lot brawl so much.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting the Rumble match in the 2001 RR which is the second best rumble of all time IMO. Review incoming tonight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't care for that Rumble. Was so bored. Then again, I'm not a big Royal Rumble fan. Quite a number are redundant.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I like it, but converse to you I'm a huge rumble fan


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*WWF Action! (DVD Extras)

**WCW World Heavyweight Championship
*Booker T (c) vs. Kurt Angle - *** 1/4
_Smackdown 7/26/2001_

*Intercontinental Championship
*Triple H (c) vs. Jeff Hardy - ***
_Smackdown 4/12/2001_

*Intercontinental Championship
*Chris Jericho (c) vs. Triple H - ** 3/4
_Smackdown 4/5/2001_

Edge, Christian, & Rhyno vs. Bubba Ray, D-Von, & Spike Dudley - ** 1/4
_Smackdown 3/21/2001_

*WWF Championship
*Kurt Angle (c) vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - *** 3/4
_RAW 1/8/2001

_*WWF Championship - Steel Cage Match
*Stone Cold Steve Austin (c) vs. The Rock - **
_RAW 4/2/2001_

*WWF Championship
*Stone Cold Steve Austin (c) vs. Chris Jericho - ***
_RAW 6/4/2001_


- Well we start off with a nice little gem in Booker/Angle. It was a pretty important match at the time seeing as the allliance was gaining all the momentum and the WWF had nothing going their way. It's actually a really fun match because of the crazy booking down the stretch. The entire alliance spills out of the locker room so the WWF guys come out and a huge brawl ensues, which creates a huge diversion for Kanyon to sneak in and nail Angle with the the title belt. Angle kicks out though and eventually once the place clears out Austin runs down and delivers a stunner since no one's there to stop him, buuuut Booker takes way too long playing to the crowd (spinarooni!~) and gets caught with an Ankle Lock and taps seconds later. Good match that could've been a tad better if Angle's comebacks weren't comprised completely of punches. 

- I'm sure everyone's seen HHH/Hardy by now because it's a well known upset that's been released on like 4 other sets. Fun match for sure with a great underdog dynamic. The 2nd IC Title match between Jericho & HHH is pretty good but rather typical for the time frame. Shenanigans in the finish. 6 man is short and fun, postmatch brawl is kinda awesome.

- Angle vs. Austin was another great match in their series. I believe it was their first encounter and probably the 3rd best of the lot. First several minutes are just so much damn fun. Austin's whooping Angle's ass, JR is goin nuts at the announce table, Regal comes out and gets his ass whipped too, bodies are flying everywhere, then finally Angle is able to weather the storm and it's time for lots of SUPLEXES. Seriously, all of Angle's offense was different variations of a suplex. Belly to belly, belly to back, vertical, gutwrench, etc. He continued to do it over and over to the crowd's displeasure and to Lawler's disbelief. I think one of the biggest reasons I enjoyed this so much is because their finishers weren't whored out. When the stunner was hit, it really counted and mattered. Triple H came out and cost Austin the title, which you'll remember is exactly what Austin did in return to him at the Royal Rumble later that month. Great match & a great angle that really helped build their 3SOH match.

- Fuck that cage match, man. I was fine with the first half where it was just brawling outside the ring but why the hell was it even a cage match? The door was open the whole time and Vince interfered whenever he wanted. Annoyed the hell outta me, then there's not even a real finish, just a burial of the Rock by the newly formed Two Man Power Trip. Shitty "match"

- Austin/Jericho had a lot of potential but so many outlying factors tried to bring it down. McMahon & Benoit were banned from ringside (this was the week after the Austin/Benoit classic) and Mick Foley was brought out as the "troubleshooting referee". So basically a special enforcer. He just made things worse and they had to screw Jericho somehow. When they were actually in the ring the match was pretty good but I could've done without the ref bumps, low blows, Regal interference, and Foley chair shot. Still a decent enough package all around though.​


----------



## DenGal (Feb 10, 2009)

99 was the best rumble


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finished the Best of RAW & Smackdown 2012 set to refresh myself on those matches & whatnot. The 2012 over list is in the infancy stages, but here's the gist of what I loved/liked/disliked off this set:


*Loved*:

1) CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan ~ _RAW 1/30_


2) Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, & Mike Mizanin ~ _Smackdown 3/9_


3) *WWE Championship - No DQ Match*
CM Punk vs Mark Henry ~ _RAW 4/9_


4) *Fatal Four Way Elimination Match*
Christian vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger vs Great Khali ~ _RAW 6/11_


5) Vader vs Heath Slater ~ _RAW 6/11_


6) Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler ~ _Smackdown 6/22_


7) *Fatal Four Way Match*
Daniel Bryan vs Kane vs Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio ~ _Smackdown 7/27_


8) Sheamus vs Damien Sandow ~ _RAW 10/1_


9) CM Punk "vs" Vince McMahon ~ _RAW 10/8_


10) Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler ~ _RAW 10/22_

-----------

*Liked:*

1) *Falls Count Anywhere Match*
Kane vs Zack Ryder ~ _RAW 1/23_


2) *WWE United States Championship - Triple Threat Match*
Santino Marella(c) vs Dolph Ziggler vs Jack Swagger ~ _RAW 4/2_


3) *Handicap Match*
Ryback vs Curt Hawkins & Tyler Reks ~ _RAW 8/6_


4) Rey Mysterio vs Cody Rhodes ~ _Smackdown 8/31_


5) *Falls Count Anywhere Match*
John Cena vs Alberto Del Rio ~ _RAW 9/3_


6) Ryback vs Tensai ~ _Smackdown 9/28_


7) Kane & Daniel Bryan vs Alberto Del Rio & David Otunga ~ _Smackdown 10/5_


8) CM Punk vs Dolph Ziggler ~ _Smackdown 10/5_


9) John Cena & Ryback vs CM Punk & Dolph Ziggler ~ _RAW 11/5_

----------

*Dislike:*

1) *No DQ Match*
Randy Orton vs Wade Barrett ~ _Smackdown 2/3_


2) *No DQ Match*
Kane vs Randy Orton ~ _Smackdown 4/6_


3) *WWE Tag Team Championship*
Primo Colon & Epico(c) vs Kofi Kingston & R-Truth ~ _RAW 4/30_


4) Sheamus vs Randy Orton ~ _Smackdown 5/18_


5) Randy Orton vs Damien Sandow ~ _Smackdown 9/7_


6) Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston ~ _RAW 9/24_


7) Beth Phoenix vs Natalya Neidhart ~ _Smackdown 9/28_


8) *Falls Count Anywhere Match*
Randy Orton vs Alberto Del Rio ~ _Smackdown 11/6_​

Notes:

Some of the matches I loved were really, really great. I feel there were more they could have added on here. I know the good Christian vs Miz match from Smackdown made the blu-ray extras. As did the brilliant Sheamus vs Danielson street fight. Still, Punk vs Show & Cena vs Danielson are nowhere to be found. Which is baffling. Some good Jericho matches were left off too. Not sure why. While some matches on here I ended up liking, they swerved no purpose. Ryback vs Tensai b/c of the shell shock? that random Team Hell No match vs Del Rio & Otunga? Then there are the weird choices b/c they fucking suck like Orton vs Sandow _(aka the most pointless match to add of them all.)_ & the tag team championship match. Drawbacks weren't too glaring other than being the central point that Orton had his worst career year in 2012 and everything Kofi Kingston is skippable. We all saw this coming. More good on this than bad. Plus you have Brock's return & the brawl with Cena in the ring. Which are absolutely fabulous. Big Show killing people + Punk being a dick making the cut are great segment additions too. Then the best thing ends up being Team Hell No at Anger Management. Those skits were gold.

Kane vs Ryder was a squash the whole way, but I oddly liked it. Total guilty pleasure. Kane had himself a good year. His match vs Orton wasn't exactly terrible. Kane himself was good in it. But watching it right after watching the dull Orton vs Barrett match on this set and you realize they're identical and it's sad. Sad for how that's the general tame WWE gimmick match these days. Only good thing to come is Kane looked good, but Orton wasn't so it didn't make the cut. The Santino vs Dolph vs Swagger three way was an unusual choice, but I guess they wanted more from that great night of RAW instead of adding Punk vs Henry I, so that worked. And it did. Match is a fun little contest. It works.

Matches you have to see are Sheamus vs Ziggler & the fatal four way from Smackdown. Two AWESOME bouts. The four way is hectic personafied & the Sheamus vs Ziggler match gives all of their's a run for their money. Twelve matches and I think only one was "iffy" b/c it was short. And that was the very first in 2011. All of their stuff in 2012 was ultra FUN. Great work from those two. Great work from Sheamus in general. Duh. He's the 2012 king. Match vs Sandow continues to be :mark: Big shout out to the "match" with Punker & Vince. Holy shit. Goosebumps. Crowd was immense. Then Ryback came out. Wowowowow. Things were hot. It made you forget the product at the time was relatively dull, despite how good that stuff was. Don't sleep on that Smackdown six man tag. GREAT work put out in it. I knew it was solid at first, but this rewatch made me realize how strong it is. Loved it.

Some tidbits there. Could have possibly gone into more, but this is long enough. Not a bad set despite some really weird additions. Good or bad, some didn't need to be there imo. At least I had fun with it. Although, don't know why they tried putting all those Orton matches on it. WWE, use your brains next time. And most were all gimmick matches too :lmao That's where it matters at the end of the day. If only it had all the great matches on it. Could have been a fabulous set.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Finished the Best of RAW & Smackdown 2012 set to refresh myself on those matches & whatnot. The 2012 over list is in the infancy stages, but here's the gist of what I loved/liked/disliked off this set:
> 
> 
> *Loved*:
> ...




Haha I'll read the rest of this in a minute, its funny because the ones here I watched a week ago and am pimping them out, liked that 4 way elimination on raw alot, Punk vs. dbryan/henry is out of this world, and how great was that slater/vader match ? soooo good. I wasn't watch that ziggler/sheamus closely but I really liked it as well​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Look at all those Orton matches in the dislike pile. hahaha. Need to pick up that blu ray on Black Friday when they drop the fuck outta the price. Have all the TV sets they've released since Smackdown 2009-10, so why stop now?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader owning Slater is probably the most enjoyable match on the entire set. It's too much joy in a sub-four minute span.

Of course every Orton singles match makes the dislike pile. It's pretty much like that for this year too until following SummerSlam. Fucker has been pitiful as a babyface under the Viper moniker.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I liked the FCA with Del Rio and the No DQ with Barrett is the only match in their endless series that I don't dislike. In fact, I enjoyed it enough to feature it in my top 100.

The Sandow match is a pointless addition, though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Love Punk/Batista from GAB, but I remember hating their RAW match. Punk phoned it in like crazy and Batista was his usual sucky self. Very similar to the equally awful Punk/Sheamus RAW match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That crummy Lumberjack one for Punker vs Sheamus. Oof. That one only confirmed how Lumberjack matches are always the worst.

...then Sheamus vs Big Show had a absolutely fantastic one come the dreadful Christmas Eve edition of RAW to end the year. Oh those wacky exceptions.

------------

Finished Souled Out '98 right now. HA @ the booking. Lets have Flair vs Hart & Nash vs Giant get backseated for another (pointless) Savage vs Luger match only b/c it feeds the nWo turmoil angle. Oh WCW. I love you, but it's not hard to see why you failed.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As a big Bret mark, I don't think I've ever seen that Flair match from Souled Out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's not worth it unless you really want to see it. I don't dislike it, but it's basically a match that feels like a "greatest hits" of their work. They do their trademark moves and then it ends. Bret's last match worth seeing in his career seems to be vs Austin at WM and everything else is skippable, if not bad. Singles match wise.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Love Punk/Batista from GAB, but I remember hating their RAW match. Punk phoned it in like crazy and Batista was his usual sucky self. Very similar to the equally awful Punk/Sheamus RAW match.


Same here, I was pleasantly surprised with just how great that match was.

But I enjoyed just about everything on that show also.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Flatbush Zombies are smarks. I'm done.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to funnyfaces1 again.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Their music sucks but I like how they are wrestling fans.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> He's the 2012 king


unk2

Though he certainly had himself a great year... which would've been even better if all of his matches vs ADR were as good as Night Of Champions, but no.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2012 set does indeed have a bunch of great stuff with some fun stuff too, but like any WWE set they always, always have to include some utter shite for seemingly no reason while missing off some absolute essential matches. Thank fuck the Bluray version has the Bryan/Sheamus street fight... but they couldn't fucking include Bryan/Cena on there too? CUNTS. Found time on the Bluray extras for a fucking MIZ TV segment though. MASSIVE CUNTS.

I see people mentioning how good the 2013 Raw & SD set is gonna be with all the awesome Shield, Cesaro and Bryan stuff etc. But come on, if they include more than 2 Shield matches I'll be fucking surprised tbh, plus they'll somehow manage to fill at least a disc of the set with utter shite. SANTINO'S RETURN MATCH WHERE HE BEATS CESARO NEEDS TO BE ON THERE AFTERALL!!! AND MIZ! MIZ GOTTA BE REPRESENTED SOMEWHERE TOO! AND CURTIS AXEL! CAN'T FORGET ABOUT CURTIS!

Edit: And despite Cody being a RR hating, wrong HHH/Lesnar match loving CUNT, I agree with him that SHEAMUS was the 2012 KING. Especially on TV. Wish they'd included the Jericho match from after the RR, I remember that being really good.

Oh, and WHY did they have to put the Henry/Punk No DQ match on the set? Why not the first match? I already fecking own Henry/Punk from the Live in the UK DVD dammit . I WANT BOTH MATCHES.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If they wanted to include any Fella/Y2J match, it should've been the one in the week where Zack Ryder was GM. That was some badass stuff.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched, Cena/Edge from Unforgiven yet again. Still a ****1/2 match for me, never understood why many people are saying that this match sucked balls. The stipulation was great, a TLC match a match that Edge never lost, the crowd was awesome, the Toronto crowd was 100% behind Edge and the storytelling and the storyline going on here were just great, with Cena doing everything in his power to beat Edge and remain a part of RAW Just great


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rewatched, Cena/Edge from Unforgiven yet again. Still a ****1/2 match for me, never understood why many people are saying that this match sucked balls. The stipulation was great, a TLC match a match that Edge never lost, the crowd was awesome, the Toronto crowd was 100% behind Edge and the storytelling and the storyline going on here were just great, with Cena doing everything in his power to beat Edge and remain a part of RAW Just great


I believe such reason was how contrived some of the spots looked.

I personally didn't really cared about that, though I gave it 1/2* less than you did


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Seen that the WWE posted some full matches, like Orton/Batista from ER and HHH/Edge/Hardy from Armageddon. Might watch both, didn't see them in a while


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think much to ANY Cena/Edge match, never mind the TLC . But if I ever get back to my Raw 06 reviews I'll eventually see it again and who knows, maybe I'll change my mind (and MAYBE I'll win the lottery and become rich and be happy...) .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Royal rumble 2001 review​*
One of my all-time favorite PPVS. Let’s get into it! ​
*Match # 1: The Dudley’s vs Edge and Christian(c)- tag match for the WWE tag titles *

This was a Brilliant choice for the opening match. Such a FUN match, the crowd was crazy into it as the Dudley’s were OVER as shit. This might be the best REGULAR match ( no TLC, Ladder, table) the Dudleys ever competed in. just great tempo throughout the match and they didn’t have to spice it up with tables(although their was a reversed conchairto) for the match to be fun. It was just entertaining stuff. Also nice to see the Dudley’s pick up the win via 3D, crowd popped huge for it. ****

*Match # 2: Chris Benoit(c) vs Chris Jericho- ladder match for the IC title*

I have been debating myself over whether this or HBK vs Razor Ramon is the greatest ladder match of all time, this is where I am making my final decision here. This is just everything I would want in a match packed into one amazing match. Probably in my top 20 matches of all time even though I do not have an official list. I urge every single person who thinks they are a wrestling fan to go on youtube and watch this match ASAP, you can thank me later . But I have made my decision, this is better than HBK/Razor by a hair, making it the greatest ladder match in my book. *****

*Match # 3: Chyna vs Ivory- singles match for the womens title*

Pretty boring match that ends in 4 minutes, but its not dud worthy, but it doesn’t really count- N/A

*Match # 4: Kurt Angle vs HHH- singles match for the WWF title*

I have high hopes for this match as I remember it being decent. Hopefully these two go with what potential they have and pull out an awesome match- I have faith! Well turns out I was wrong. This match wasn’t bad by any means, but after 2 awesome matches in the night this was a letdown by comparison. It still wasn’t boring by any means, but I found it kind of difficult to sit to for 20 minutes. Still though, if it was on a different PPV, it would probably have shined more. *** ½*

*Match #5: The 30 man Royal Rumble Match* 

In my opinion this is the second greatest rumble match of all time(1992 at first) and I still enjoy it everytime I watch it. Jeff Hardy is out first to a decent pop and I think hes a good choice for number one as it got the crowd excited for the match. Bull Buchanon is out second and I neer liked him, but we will see how it goes. Matt Hardy is out at 3 and that doesn’t look fake at all :lol. The hardyz team up for a little while but when it is down to the two of them they decide to go one on one. Drew Carey comes in at 5 and The hardyz eliminate each other leaving Carey to celebrate :lol. Then Kane comes in at 6 and eliminates himself in fear of Kane :lol. Various midcarders such as Al Snow and Perry Saturn come out and gang up on Kane. The Rumble becomes hard core as various weapons are brought in.

The Rock is out at 13 and its just Kane in the ring as he had just eliminated ****** tonk man after a painful promo by him. Rock and Kane fend off more midcarders until RTRUTH is out at 19 :lol. He’s under the name Ron Killings here ( his real name) and I didn’t know he was such a veteran. The big Show is in at 23 and apparently he is returning but I have no idea how long he was gone for though. However he is somewhat quickly eliminated by the rock, Show then attacks rock but does not eliminate him. Taker is out at 25 to a HUGE pop as everyone tries to eliminate Kane at the same Him and Kane manage to eliminate everyone but the rock who is still unconscious somewhere. SCSA is out to a massive pop at 27 but is immediately beaten down by HHH. So its still just the brothers in the ring as they had already eliminated scotty 2 hotty. The Rock gets back in the ring as Billy Gunn comes in at 28. Rock still does nothing so its pretty much 3 people in the rumble not 5. Austin is bloody as hell too. Rock rejuvenates himself and starts fighting taker while Billy Gunn fights Kane. Haku is out at 29 and JR says we know Rikishi is at 30. 

Rikishi joins at 30 as Austin comes in and quickly eliminates haku. Rikishi then eliminates taker to a decent pop as I think taker was a favorite going in. Austin eliminates Gunn and Rock eliminates Rikishi so we are down to Austin, Rock, and Kane. Kane eliminates the Rock about 5 minutes later as Kane gets his record breaking 11th elimination. Its down to Austin and Kane, and its obvious that Kane is MVP of this rumble BY FAR. They brawl for a few minutes until Austin eliminates Kane and picks up his record breaking third rumble victory. Just a fun match, would be the best rumble if not for 1992. **** ½*

*Overall*: what an amazing PPV. No match that’s not a squash comes in at under *** ½*.that is impressive. The rumble is good, great even, but match of the night goes to Benoit/Jericho as that match is in the upper echelon of both mens careers. Solid recommendation. * 9/10 overall IMO. *


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Summerslam 2006 though.

It's like the TLC match except it doesn't have tables, ladders, and chairs..... & it happens to be a really good match, where as the TLC bout is shit.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> *Royal rumble 2001 review​*
> One of my all-time favorite PPVS. Let’s get into it! ​
> 
> *Match # 2: Chris Benoit(c) vs Chris Jericho- ladder match for the IC title*
> ...


I hate math, and its always been my worst subject so I'll pass 

I still will go with hbk/razor as the best but there is nothing wrong with people choosing this one, as I think most nowadays do


----------



## AlienBountyHunter (Jan 22, 2013)

Cena/Edge TLC match is horrible, IMO. No structure and the spots suck.

Royal Rumble 2001 is awesome, one of my favourite PPVs of all time aswell. I personally have the Rumble match as the best of all time, it's just a ton of fun.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I hate math, and its always been my worst subject so I'll pass
> 
> I still will go with hbk/razor as the best but there is nothing wrong with people choosing this one, as I think most nowadays do


oops, I hate math as well, so no qualms there :lol.

EDIT: I found the RAW after the RR 2001 on youtube and I'm watching it, the ME is Rock and Jericho vs Benoit and Big show, anyone remember it?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Talking of Royal Rumble matches, IMO 2007 should be in everyone's top five. Flair and Finlay starting, Kane's BRUTAL elimination of Sabu, Booker driven to insanity, the amazing star-power, Khali going Hulk... and DAT Final Two, holy fuck.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ATF said:


> Talking of Royal Rumble matches, IMO 2007 should be in everyone's top five. Flair and Finlay starting, Kane's BRUTAL elimination of Sabu, Booker driven to insanity, the amazing star-power, Khali going Hulk... and DAT Final Two, holy fuck.


Thats # 3 on mine, for me the top five is like this:

1: 1992
2: 2001
3: 2007
4: 2004
5: 2008

Still need to see 2000, 2002, 2003, and 2005


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2009 should be in everyone's top 5 :side:.

As for the actual 2001 show, it'd without a doubt the top RR event ever:

RR CAL SCALE

2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5
2013 Royal Rumble - 3.5
1993 Royal Rumble - 4
2011 Royal Rumble - 4.5
1997 Royal Rumble - 5
1988 Royal Rumble - 5.5
1989 Royal Rumble - 7
2003 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1994 Royal Rumble - 7.5
2004 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1990 Royal Rumble - 8
2008 Royal Rumble - 9
1998 Royal Rumble - 9.5
1991 Royal Rumble - 11.5
2007 Royal Rumble - 12
1996 Royal Rumble - 13
1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5
2009 Royal Rumble - 15
1995 Royal Rumble - 15.5
2005 Royal Rumble - 17
2000 Royal Rumble - 17
2002 Royal Rumble - 17.5
2001 Royal Rumble - 20


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The 2006 Rumble match might be a MOTY candidate for me in all honesty. 

Triple H Vs Mysterio + interactions w/ Flair & Big Show mixed with a whole bunch of other nonsense just made for a grand spectacle IMO. Just another thing HHH did in his King of Kings phase & another thing Mysterio did in his jaw dropping 2006 that just adds to their insane resumes.

Here's an interesting argument when discussing Rey Mysterio as the greatest of all time; has anybody INNOVATED in the wrestling game more than Mysterio? I mean, you can say that Randy Savage, Bret Hart, & Shawn Michaels paved the way for Mysterio but FUCK NO... It's not the same thing in the slightest. Mysterio opened the doors for Danielson to be the borderline biggest star in wrestling right now, Mysterio made it possible for CM Punk. Guerrero & Benoit were small, but during their respective main event reigns were both fucking JACKED UP with about 220 + Lbs of raw muscle on their bodies. I don't think it necessarily makes Rey the greatest of all time, but it's certainly something that helps play in his favor instead of just matching up match catalog quality, which Mysterio trumps 99 percent of workers anyways in.

All I'm saying is that there are very few people who have EVERYTHING required to be the greatest all around talent the business has ever seen. The only few people I can really think of who could take the title and run with it would be Flair, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, Eddie Guerrero, MAYBE Steve Austin. & yeah, CM Punk has a chance in my mind to be on that ELITE level of all around performers. I thought he surpassed Jericho a long time ago.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

the rumble was decent, but do you remember the ME? It was angle vs Henry :lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

06 Rumble is just average for me. Not bad, not particularly good. Just there. Few interesting things, but overall you could never see it in your entire life and not be missing out on anything. Only match worth a damn on the show though. Urgh at the show overall. A shit stain on the otherwise awesome year of 06.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

the 2011 rumble was really good IMO. the only bad part was ADR winning.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2011 Rumble was really good, but the rest of the show blew giant chunks of turd .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't forget CS, SVS and DTD as far as 2006 shit stains are concerned :lol

SD was fucking unstoppable in 06. Their worst show, GAB, still had a bunch of really good stuff (Londrick/Pitbulls, Regal/Finlay, Rey/Booker).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> 2011 Rumble was really good, but the rest of the show blew giant chunks of turd .


Edge vs Dolph Ziggler disagrees


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not got to CS yet, Don't even remember Survivor Series (which I guess is good?  ), and D2D... well it's not good, but it still beat out RR .

Edit: Edge Vs Ziggler was terrible. Was a retarded version of HBK/Orton, where Edge couldn't use the Spear like HBK couldn't use the Superkick... but Edge didn't really bother working it into the match. And still used the Spear anyway. LOL.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It actually fucking amazes me how Punk went from being one of the biggest busts in WWE history from 2006-2009 from a quality standpoint (Felt like he was out of place in the WWE world, matches seemed to all have a sense of disjointment, promo work as a face seemed to lack intensity and a certain BUZZ to it) to being what I feel is the greatest all around character the WWE has seen from 2009 to the present (yes, I believe he's all around been the best thing going for FOUR YEARS NOW.... Not to say Punk's 2006-2009 years sucked at all as he had some pretty good matches particularly in 2009).

From the moment he turned heel on Jeff Hardy in 2009 to the present day, I don't think anybody can match him. To be the best all around performer for THAT LONG means at the very least Top 10 recognition all time in WWE lore. Can only think of a handful of individuals that I'd perceive as better.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> All I'm saying is that there are very few people who have EVERYTHING required to be the greatest all around talent the business has ever seen. T*he only few people I can really think of who could take the title and run with it would be Flair, The Undertaker, Mick Foley, Eddie Guerrero, MAYBE Steve Austin.* & yeah, CM Punk has a chance in my mind to be on that ELITE level of all around performers. I thought he surpassed Jericho a long time ago.


You keep disrespecting DA GOAT mannnn









About Rey, I truly agree, when its comes to in-ring I truly believe flair,hbk,mysterio,steamboat are in a league of their own and then you have the scsa and taker's of the world behind them and then you have anyone level of greats


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Not got to CS yet, Don't even remember Survivor Series (which I guess is good?  ), and D2D... well it's not good, but it still beat out RR .
> 
> Edit: Edge Vs Ziggler was terrible. Was a retarded version of HBK/Orton, where Edge couldn't use the Spear like HBK couldn't use the Superkick... but Edge didn't really bother working it into the match. And still used the Spear anyway. LOL.


really? most I talk to have it around *** 3/4*- ****. I gave it the latter rating.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always see high praise and ratings for it but for the life of me I absolutely cannot see WHY anyone thinks highly of it lol . Same goes for Punk/Ziggler the year after. Not aiming this at you, but I do believe that a lot of the time people just give these matches high ratings because of a) the people involved (PUNK AND ZIGGLER, and Edge gets some cock sucking love at times too), and b) the way Dolph bumps.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I always see high praise and ratings for it but for the life of me I absolutely cannot see WHY anyone thinks highly of it lol . Same goes for Punk/Ziggler the year after. Not aiming this at you, but I do believe that a lot of the time people just give these matches high ratings because of a) the people involved (PUNK AND ZIGGLER, and Edge gets some cock sucking love at times too), and b) the way Dolph bumps.


`
Dolph/Punk was OK, not great. *** 1/2. Their RAW match later that year though...:mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd consider *** 1/2 to be PRETTY FUCKING GREAT.

Which neither are. Edge/Ziggler sucks while Punk/Ziggler is pretty good though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you mean before ? the rumble match was in 12 and that match is nov 2011 

Yea remember punk/ziggles rr 12 being ok maybe meh, their nov 11 and raw 1/2/12 match was better with ziggler best promo to date on that raw show


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Ziggler is under *** for me, and I thought they had a couple of better TV matches prior to the RR. Why they do shit like that confuses me. LOOK GUYS THESE TWO JUST HAD LIKE, 4 MATCHES IN THE LAST MONTH ON FREEEEE TV. NOW PAY TO SEE THEM AGAIN ON PPV. It's like when they have a TV match between a champion and someone, with the title not on the line, and if the challenger wins he gets a title shot afterwards. *head explodes*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

How they had Khali beat Cena CLEAN on SNME the night before ONS 2007 or some shit like that :lol :lol :lol :lol.

THAT was fucked up booking. Like legit RETARDED.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Not got to CS yet, Don't even remember Survivor Series (which I guess is good?  ), and D2D... well it's not good, but it still beat out RR .


SVS is *horrible*, CS is even worse 

WeAreProWrestling, one of those crazy "eat everything" YT'ers (the same guy with 40+ ***** WWE matches), says that HHH/HBK HIAC is at ****3/4 the #2 match of 2004 (behind the WM 20 Triple Threat), that it's more hated than the 3 Stages Of Hell (fpalm) and "it's such a great match" - that's all he says about the match itself, other than justifying the 45 minute length as "it was the feud ender, it had to go there". 

I think it's a good, if too forced match, but this here is pure dicksucking :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RR 2012 was just bad overall, the terrible Bryan/show/henry match, a meh punk/ziggler, a TERRIBLE kane/Cena match, and a bad Rumble. Probably the second worst PPV of 2012 only to EC.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and I forgot: he calls "typical IWC whiners" to those who dislike that HIAC for its length.

EC 2012 > RR. At least Chamber had a really good EC match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

LAST TIME I WATCHED 2012 RUMBLE FUCKING AGES AGO

Henry-Show-Bryan ~ *****
Kane-Cena ~ ****
Punk-Ziggler ~ *** 3/4*
Rumble Match ~ *** 1/4*

Yeah. 2013 Rumble match was better but the event overall was atrocious.

ELIMINATION CHAMBER 2012 FROM AGES AGO

RAW Chamber ~ *****
Smackdown Chamber ~ *** 3/4*
Cena-Kane ~ *****

I liked Cena-Kane. True.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nice shout to the '06 Rumble, Evan. If it weren't for that awfully boring middle portion it'd be one of the best Rumbles ever for sure. I still really like it because of Triple H's INCREDIBLE performance and Rey's decent one (really though if you watch the whole match you realize Rey is laying around for quite a while while Hunter is ALWAYS involved in something). The first like 20 minutes and the last 10 or so are pure gold. The finish is so so great. Gave it *** 1/2 myself, real shame it didn't main event that shitstain of a PPV.

---------------------

I also wanna ask to make sure because there were no responses to my Action review yesterday, everyone else thinks the Rock/Austin Cage match the night after Wrestlemania is shit, right? More of big brawl with a random cage thrown in.

Also how would everyone rank the Austin/Angle series? Personally:

Summerslam '01 - **** 3/4
Unforgiven '01 - **** (low end)
RAW 1/8/01 - *** 3/4
RAW 10/8/01 - *** 1/2

Don't know of any other meetings that exist between the two. Also the No Mercy triple threat with RVD is great as well. *** 1/2 - **** range.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> SVS is *horrible*, CS is even worse
> 
> WeAreProWrestling, one of those crazy "eat everything" YT'ers (the same guy with 40+ ***** WWE matches), says that HHH/HBK HIAC is at ****3/4 the #2 match of 2004 (behind the WM 20 Triple Threat), that it's more hated than the 3 Stages Of Hell (fpalm) and "it's such a great match" - that's all he says about the match itself, other than justifying the 45 minute length as "it was the feud ender, it had to go there".
> 
> I think it's a good, if too forced match, but this here is pure dicksucking :side:


Man, ignore folks on YouTube. I do like their HIAC, but it is long and is a bit forced. The 3 Stages of Hell is just bad though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Those YT'ers hold as much merit to me in terms of respectable opinions on wrestling as my fucking grandmother does. IGNORE.

Anyways, Rumble 2006 is severely underrated in a sea of awesome Rumbles from 2000 - 2009.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Even your grandmother can't have stuff like Bret/Backlund SVS, Bret/Shawn WM 12, Shawn/Diesel GFBE and the SVS '02 Triple Threat at ***** like that guy 

The 2006 Rumble match = ***3/4. The 2006 Rumble PPV = near DUD.

Non-00/01/02 best RR of the decade is 2007.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2006 > 2000, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009

2001 is just amazing all around and 2004 is just BENOIT.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2004 is my favorite Rumble. So many feud advancers and BENOIT with the greatest performance in Royal Rumble history.










After that, 2001, 2007, 2008 and 2009 are all up there. Haven't seen 1992 and I need to get around to it soon.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> Rewatched, Cena/Edge from Unforgiven yet again. Still a ****1/2 match for me, never understood why many people are saying that this match sucked balls. The stipulation was great, a TLC match a match that Edge never lost, the crowd was awesome, the Toronto crowd was 100% behind Edge and the storytelling and the storyline going on here were just great, with Cena doing everything in his power to beat Edge and remain a part of RAW Just great


(Y)

I still really like this match, and I've watched it almost a dozen times. I can understand why someone might not like it, not everyone likes those sort of matches, but whenever I here the typical ''all the spots were so obvious and they're so contrived, no structure, blah blah blah'' I think you're just over-analyzing shit. And when you're over-analyzing shit you're not going to enjoy a match as much. 



Callamus said:


> I always see high praise and ratings for it but for the life of me I absolutely cannot see WHY anyone thinks highly of it lol . Same goes for Punk/Ziggler the year after. Not aiming this at you, *but I do believe that a lot of the time people just give these matches high ratings because of a) the people involved (PUNK AND ZIGGLER, and Edge gets some cock sucking love at times too), and b) the way Dolph bumps.*


Well naturally we all enjoy matches more if are favorites are involved, just like how you for example REALLY dig the Taker/HHH matches because your a big Taker mark, when others don't share such a high opinion on them.

Edge/Ziggler is ****3/4* for me.

Punk/Ziggler from Royal Rumble 2012 is ****1/2* for me, I didn't enjoy it as much as their matches on RAW. 

I thought Bryan/Show/Henry from the same show was dull and I wouldn't go over **** for it. Ah, the joy of opinions.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You ever think that they would have turned Benoit heel on Punk in 2007?

Chances are that Benoit would have carried Punk at Vengeance/Bash/Summerslam in 2007 though due to Punk not being the best then.

Would have helped Punk grow easier though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 2004 is my favorite Rumble. So many feud advancers and BENOIT with *the greatest performance in Royal Rumble history.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Even though you haven't seen it...










As far as non-Rumble matches go, NOTHING comes close to H/Foley. Not even the imo overrated Benoit/Jericho.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit said in an interview months before his death that he was never going to turn heel again, so that's probably your answer. He had reached that "respected veteran" status that others such as Undertaker and Shawn Michaels have come to where the fans are gonna cheer them automatically.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nostalgia said:


> Well naturally we all enjoy matches more if are favorites are involved, just like how you for example REALLY dig the Taker/HHH matches because your a big Taker mark, when others don't share such a high opinion on them.


True, I am up front with my UNDERTAKER bias and all, but I can at least articulate WHY I find those matches great. I don't think I've seen anything to explain to me WHY Edge/Ziggler is any good beyond people simply liking the guys involved .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RR 2000 is according to netlfix is set to arrive in 2 days. Cant wait to watch HHH/Cactus + Rock rumble in HD


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

BENOIT VS

- Sheamus
- Punk
- Cesaro
- Rollins
- Bryan 
- MYSTERIO (FUCK! WHY DIDN'T WE SEE A BIG BENOIT-MYSTERIO MATCH?!?!?!)

Makes me depressed.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

ATF said:


> As far as non-Rumble matches go, NOTHING comes close to H/Foley. Not even the imo overrated Benoit/Jericho.


Whoa, I don't think Benoit/Jericho is overrated at all, though it's not quite to the level of Trips/Foley. 

That's actually an interesting topic: Best non-Rumble match. I need to check out Bret/Razor from 1993.

Cena/Umaga from 2007 would probably be in the discussion, though it needs a re-watch from me. Mankind/Rock could be in the discussion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> 2004 is my favorite Rumble. So many feud advancers and BENOIT with the greatest performance in Royal Rumble history.
> 
> After that, 2001, 2007, 2008 and 2009 are all up there.* Haven't seen 1992 and I need to get around to it soon*.


It's a great match but I think it's overrated as all getout. *****? No way. Never quite saw the "drama" in the end either. That's my unpopular opinion though, so yeah.

EDIT: Bret/Razor is pretty good (*** 1/4) but it's not like it's anywhere close to best non Rumble match. You've got HHH/Foley, Rockers/Orients, Benoit/Jericho, Cena/Umaga, Rock/Jericho, Bret/Diesel, etc.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't forget Undertaker and Cena plus some quality repeat matches against HHH, Jericho, HBK and so on.

Benoit vs Sheamus would have been an awesome physical brawl. And Benoit vs Bryan is one of the greatest matches to never happen.

EDIT: Best non-Rumble match in the Rumble PPVs is an interesting topic. Benoit vs Jericho easily tops it for me. Then there's other matches like Cena/Umaga, Benoit/Angle (bite me), Foley/HHH (which I actually find overrated), Rock/Mankind and last but not least... Rock/Punk. (just kiddin' on the last one!)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Top 10 Non Rumble RR Matches:

10. William Regal Vs Edge - ***3/4 (2002)

9. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys - ***3/4 (2000)

8. 123-Kid & Bob Holly Vs Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka - **** (1995)

7. Bret & Owen Hart Vs The Quebecers - **** (1994)

6. Bret Hart Vs The Undertaker - **** (1996)

5. Shawn Michaels Vs The Undertaker - **** (1998)

4. The Orient Express Vs The Rockers - ****1/4 (1991)

3. Bret Hart Vs Diesel - ****1/2 (1995)

2. Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - ****3/4 (2001)

1. Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - ****3/4 (2000)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> RR 2000 is according to netlfix is set to arrive in 2 days. Cant wait to watch HHH/Cactus + Rock rumble in HD


Explain to me why they took FCA DVD off, how am I suppose to watch my annual hbk/hhh ss 02 in HD now ?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone else have Benoit/Y2J at *****? I know I'm not alone right?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> RR 2000 is according to netlfix is set to arrive in 2 days. Cant wait to watch HHH/Cactus + Rock rumble in HD


Do you mean coming to DVD on Netflix or will be part of the streaming content? They've never put any full event on streaming, but would be awesome.

Is FCA gone? I haven't watched that in a while.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Callamus said:


> True, I am up front with my UNDERTAKER bias and all, but I can at least articulate WHY I find those matches great. I don't think I've seen anything to explain to me WHY Edge/Ziggler is any good beyond people simply liking the guys involved .


I remember reading a few positive reviews on Edge/Ziggler on here before. I enjoyed the structure of the match and I thought they had some decent chemistry together. Edge in 2011 with all the injures was on his last legs, and his ring work was understandably getting worse and I thought Ziggler carried him to a good match. The only thing in the match I didn't care was the gimmick of Edge not being able to use the spear, but using it anyway, lol. I haven't watched the match in a while, but if give it a re-watch soon maybe I'll give a review on it just for you.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Do you mean coming to DVD on Netflix or will be part of the streaming content? They've never put any full event on streaming, but would be awesome.
> 
> Is FCA gone? I haven't watched that in a while.


I put it in my DVD queue, you have to do the same if you want to watch it. 

Redskins: FCA is gone because apart from HBK/HHH that DVD SUCKED ASS

You can put SS 02 on your queue :lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I just do streaming, not the DVD mailing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> 8. 123-Kid & Bob Holly Vs Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka - **** (1995)


:clap

Bam Bam's best performance ever imo, he was such a must here. Has anyone else seen the greatness of this yet? This match rivals some of the top Tag matches of the last 10 years. I'm dead serious.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Anyone else have Benoit/Y2J at *****? I know I'm not alone right?


I added it to my 5 star matches list on last watch a month ago.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think it's the 5th I rewatched CM Punk DVD documentary, but I still can't get bored. The ending with HHH praising Punk feels really good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk doc is awesome. One of the best ever. Top 5:

5. Pick Your Poison: The Jake Roberts Story
4. The Rise + Fall of ECW
3. Stone Cold Steve Austin: Bottom Line On Most Popular Superstar Of All Time
2. CM Punk: Best in the World
1. The Last of McGuinness – The Nigel McGuinness Story


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Never watched the McGuiness doc, mught give it a watch these days.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Benoit/Jericho is still THE best singles ladder match.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I want an Undertaker documentary. They better do one when he retires. The likely Daniel Bryan documentary in the next couple of years should be good as well.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

While I was watching Bryan talk in Punk's documentary today, I was really thinking how cool a D.Bryan documentary would be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Never watched the McGuiness doc, mught give it a watch these days.


It's definitely a MUST SEE imo, more so if you are a fan of the guy. I re-watched it again a couple of days ago. Still amazing and emotional as fuck. I wrote the FIRST review of the documentary for my site here http://wrestlingview.co.uk/?p=728 which I have been told by peoples I respect that it might be the best thing I've ever written .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Punk's documentary was great, as was Edge's. Foley's was good too. and I'm looking forward to the upcoming Triple H documentary.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Gotta give it to the WWE, their DVD's and match packages are always awesome. They even made me enjoy a John Cena documentary, This is My Life I think it was named


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The John Cena Experience was absolute shit, however 

Currently debating on getting the SummerSlam DVD or blu-ray, since I'll be getting the PS4. Do they sell combo packs?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena has yet to have a good DVD release, and I think he's had what, 3 now? 4 if you include the Rock/Cena pile of crap, or is the 3 including that? I forget/don't give a fuck . Either way, at least 3 DVD's released on him and not a single documentary on his actual career yet :lmao.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

That Once in a Lifetime DVD is really a piece of shit. ) I'm really sorry for the people who bought it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> The John Cena Experience was absolute shit, however
> 
> Currently debating on getting the SummerSlam DVD or blu-ray, since I'll be getting the PS4. Do they sell combo packs?


With the blu ray and dvd? Nah not anymore. I always go with blu ray though because of the improved picture quality and the extras. Here's what Summerslam has:

*Blu-ray Exclusives

* *Monday Night RAW – August 12, 2013*:
- Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett
- Randy Orton vs. Damien Sandow
- Mr. McMahon Picks a Special Referee for SummerSlam
- Miz TV with John Cena & Daniel Bryan
- CM Punk vs. Paul Heyman


*SmackDown – August 16, 2013*:
- Bray Wyatt Tells a Story About Kane
- Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett (No DQ Match)


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I am currently watching Rock's DVD (The Most Electrifying man in Sports Entertainment). So far, I've only watched disc one which includes his IC title win, first WWE title win, his matches during his NOD run and also his feuds with Mankind and Austin. I thought the DVD would be about his career and life but disc one is all about matches but I'll watch the other two discs to see how it really is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oliver-94 said:


> I am currently watching Rock's DVD (The Most Electrifying man in Sports Entertainment). So far, I've only watched disc one which includes his IC title win, first WWE title win, his matches during his NOD run and also his feuds with Mankind and Austin. I thought the DVD would be about his career and life but disc one is all about matches but I'll watch the other two discs to see how it really is.


The Journey of Dwayne Johnson or whatever it's called is the DVD with a Rock documentary. The one you are watching is just matches (maybe with bits in between every now and then, but I wouldn't know I don't own it ).


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Callamus said:


> The Journey of Dwayne Johnson or whatever it's called is the DVD with a Rock documentary. The one you are watching is just matches (maybe with bits in between every now and then, but I wouldn't know I don't own it ).


 Surprised that you don't own it.....well actually I'm not surprised...


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

By the way I was in HMV earlier and I saw they were selling Payback for like £13 or something, didn't think that was worth it at all. The only match I would like to own from Payback is Ziggler/Del Rio because it's arguably Ziggler's best career performance to date, but apart from that, the rest of the show doesn't hold up. 

The opening triple threat for the IC Title was fun, but it's not a match I'd really care to watch again, never watched AJ/Kaitlyn, Ambrose/Kane sucked, Punk/Jericho was underwhelming and they've had much better matches before, The Shield match was average, Cena/Ryback I enjoyed more than I thought because I had no expectations for it and didn't care for the feud at all, but again not a match I'd care to watch again.


----------



## Rickey (Apr 27, 2008)

Muh star ratings, for fun of course.

*Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Micheals Feud*
Judgement Day 2008-***3/4
The Great American Bash 2008-***1/2
Summer Slam 2008(segment)-Couldn't find it in full. 
Raw Contract Signing(segment)-GREAT!
Unforgiven 2008-****
No Mercy 2008-****1/4-****1/2

:clap What a great feud. That hatred, the matches, the clear and clear face. Brutal ladder match to end it. Both of these guys are awesome, probably one of my favorite feuds/series of matches ever.

Next 2 feuds on my 'list' are Jericho vs. Mysterio(2009) and Hardy vs. Punk(2009).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goold old *Fee*mantle and their shitty fucking ripoff prices!

And yep, I don't own a single Rock DVD. However in my collection is the likes of December to Dismember, 4 disc Hulk Hogan set (which someone actually gave me as payment for 4 COPIED discs lol), Raw 10th Anniversary (that award show thing lol) and other not really worth owning sets .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm bored, so I think I'll rewatch the entire Dolphberto feud (from their 2012 Pole match to the one AJ rings the bell).


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Callamus said:


> And yep, I don't own a single Rock DVD. However in my collection is the likes of December to Dismember, 4 disc Hulk Hogan set (which someone actually gave me as payment for 4 COPIED discs lol), Raw 10th Anniversary (that award show thing lol) and other not really worth owning sets .


I own December to Dismember too. :side: 

iirc I only bought it because it was very cheap and I wanted to watch The Chamber match again. And for the record, I don't think that Chamber match was THAT bad. I know many hold it as the worst Chamber match of all time, but I don't think so, I liked RVD's, Test and Monster Big Show's performances in the match, and I like the use of weapons in it (although they could of done a lot more with it) the ending sucks though and it was a underwhelming way to end Big Show's good run as ECW Champion.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The only wrestling DVD I really own is a DX one that came with SVR 2009. It just had one match and that was against the McMahons at the Rumble. Certainly not a boring match as I enjoyed the McMahons calling different wrestlers to beat DX and then the McMahons doing moves of past tag teams to humiliate DX.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nostalgia said:


> I own December to Dismember too. :side:
> 
> iirc I only bought it because it was very cheap and I wanted to watch The Chamber match again. And for the record, I don't think that Chamber match was THAT bad. I know many hold it as the worst Chamber match of all time, but I don't think so, I liked RVD's, Test and Monster Big Show's performances in the match, and I like the use of weapons in it (although they could of done a lot more with it) the ending sucks though and it was a underwhelming way to end Big Show's good run as ECW Champion.


I only bought the show to complete my 2006 PPV collection. Though I do like the chamber match. Not great, but not bad either. Just wish Vince went with Heyman's idea .


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I only bought the show to complete my 2006 PPV collection. Though I do like the chamber match. Not great, but not bad either. Just wish Vince went with Heyman's idea .


Punk as champion would of been better than Lashley (never cared for Lashley) and while I didn't care for Punk until 2009, I would of still preferred Punk over Lashley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shawn/bret is my favorite dvd, can watch that everyday of the week, punk 's in the top 5 maybe 2

This may be unpopular opinion and hope I don't get killed for it, but besides a few matches I can live without most of 91-96 of Bret hart matches, I love the hart foundation of late 80s and 97 Bret was great, but beside that IDK, People get on Cena but Bret falls under the same catogory sometimes that he does the same thing all the time


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lashley got such a huge super push in 2007. It's amazing just how hard they were pushing him. Winning handicap matches and overcoming over the top odds every week in that McMahon feud. He was pretty much Vince's response to Lesnar leaving him. Even had the same entrance. But similarly, Lashley just left the company as he was about to get pushed. (different reasons, though)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Sheamus (WITH TALENT) pretty much got the Lashley push in 2012.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> BENOIT VS
> 
> - Sheamus
> - Punk
> ...


Smackdown 10/03/2002, dload it now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BOBBY never won a Rumble or World Title, though. Unless you count the ECW Title which was a "test run" before ECW was done and the WHC took its place.

Any Sheamus matches in 2012* that are worth watching? I tuned out for most of the second half of last year so I missed a lot of his TV GOODNESS. Gonna watch NoC with Del Rio now since I've heard good things about it.

* = Excluding obvious ones like Extreme Rules with Bryan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cleavage said:


> Smackdown 10/03/2002, dload it now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> BOBBY never won a Rumble or World Title, though. Unless you count the ECW Title which was a "test run" before ECW was done and the WHC took its place.
> 
> Any Sheamus matches in 2012* that are worth watching? I tuned out for most of the second half of last year so I missed a lot of his TV GOODNESS. Gonna watch NoC with Del Rio now since I've heard good things about it.
> 
> * = Excluding obvious ones like Extreme Rules with Bryan.


vs. Big Show at Hell in a Cell
vs. Ziggler from NWO
vs. Jericho from Smackdown 7/13
vs. Orton from Smackdown 5/18 I think

I imagine you've probably seen at least one of those.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

How's the match against Punk on the debut episode of Main Event?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> vs. Big Show at Hell in a Cell
> vs. Ziggler from NWO
> vs. Jericho from Smackdown 7/13
> vs. Orton from Smackdown 5/18 I think
> ...


Seen them all except NWO.

Think I'll go for one of the Punk matches too, whichever wasn't the lumberjack one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Sheamus ME match is pretty good. Wouldn't call it great, but it's a real nice teaser of what they could give us on PPV some time.

As for other Sheamus in 2012 matches, honestly you can't go wrong with much at all from the guy. He was on fire all year. Just wish he had more PPV opponent variety lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> vs. Big Show at Hell in a Cell
> vs. Ziggler from NWO
> vs. Jericho from Smackdown 7/13
> vs. Orton from Smackdown 5/18 I think
> ...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> How's the match against Punk on the debut episode of Main Event?


Ive looked everywhere for that match, cannot find it

Is that rey/benoit any good ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

123 Kid & Bob Holly vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka: ****3/4*

Can't believe I never saw this before. Man this was tons of fun. Bigelow was busy Vadering around the ring and smashing folks like the beast he is. Kid's hot tag at the end was also really well done and you could tell that the crowd was dying in anticipation for it. I really liked the moment where Bob Holly tags in Tatanka because he was so out of it. The double hurricanrana and the spot where Bigelow and Tatanka both catch Holly and Kid when they did cross bodies was also pretty cool. There was also not much Tatanka, which is always a good thing.

Sheamus/Punk was real good, but Choke2Death, I suggest you do not watch it for your own safety and sanity. Some other Sheamus gems from 2012:

vs. Cesaro 11/26
vs. Sandow 10/1
vs. Barrett 10/8
vs. Big Show SvS
vs. Big Show 12/18
vs. Tensai 8/3
vs. Del Rio/Ziggler 6/29
vs. Swagger (All of their matches)
All the Punk/Sheamus tag matches if you dare to watch them, C2D

Goodness gracious, what a workhorse. Sheamus is to 2012 like Orton was to 2011. Of course, only one or two people here will appreciate Orton's great 2011.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 123 Kid & Bob Holly vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka: ****3/4*
> 
> Can't believe I never saw this before. Man this was tons of fun. Bigelow was busy Vadering around the ring and smashing folks like the beast he is. Kid's hot tag at the end was also really well done and you could tell that the crowd was dying in anticipation for it. I really liked the moment where Bob Holly tags in Tatanka because he was so out of it. The double hurricanrana and the spot where Bigelow and Tatanka both catch Holly and Kid when they did cross bodies was also pretty cool. There was also not much Tatanka, which is always a good thing.
> 
> ...


Any of you could provide a link to punk/fella me ? Believe it or not I dugg Orton circa 2011


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu2ljn_wwe-main-event-10-3-12-full-show-hq_sport

Starts at 13 minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xu2ljn_wwe-main-event-10-3-12-full-show-hq_sport
> 
> Starts at 13 minutes.


:clap:clap:clap:clap need to start spreading dem reps

This benoit/rey match is awesome


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus/Punk was real good, but Choke2Death, I suggest you do not watch it for your own safety and sanity. Some other Sheamus gems from 2012:
> 
> Goodness gracious, what a workhorse. Sheamus is to 2012 like Orton was to 2011. Of course, only one or two people here will appreciate Orton's great 2011.


Why? Because Punk won? lol, it doesn't matter to me.

Anyways, thanks for the list, gonna go through some of these soon.

Finished NoC with Del Rio. Good match with some nice arm work by Del Rio and another great performance by SHEAMUS. ★★★¼. The second armbar was a great nearfall.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/ADR NOC was very good, but how much better would've been if they kept the Brogue Kick banned.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> 123 Kid & Bob Holly vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Tatanka: ****3/4*
> 
> Can't believe I never saw this before. Man this was tons of fun. Bigelow was busy Vadering around the ring and smashing folks like the beast he is. Kid's hot tag at the end was also really well done and you could tell that the crowd was dying in anticipation for it. I really liked the moment where Bob Holly tags in Tatanka because he was so out of it. The double hurricanrana and the spot where Bigelow and Tatanka both catch Holly and Kid when they did cross bodies was also pretty cool. There was also not much Tatanka, which is always a good thing.
> 
> ...


Orton owned in 2011, the best of Raw/Smackdown DVD from that year is filled with his work, he was on his game that year, although not in a super high profile way. Very similar to what Sheamus did in 2012, I appreciate that analogy.

I just watched the entire Mid-South set past 2 days, I plan on typing up a long review but not right this moment, Bama-A&M is on right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton was great in 2011 even if very few give him the credit. It's funny how things work. Everywhere else, people will say Orton was mediocre and only became good in the ring since 2010-2011 but in here, everyone praises his 2004-2008 work and most shit on his face run.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Orton's Christmas Street Fight with Otunga from 2011 was great


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Outside of the Christian series I genuinely can't remember much of Orton in 2011. Certainly nothing I'd point to as being good, anyway lol.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Orton was great in 2011 even if very few give him the credit. It's funny how things work. Everywhere else, people will say Orton was mediocre and only became good in the ring since 2010-2011 but in here, everyone praises his 2004-2008 work and most shit on his face run.


I absolutely loved his '03-'08 stuff. Although there was a bit in '06 and '07 where he relied on rest holds a little too much. It was the viper character that stopped me from liking him. Even as a heel, I just didn't appreciate his ring work as much. That's not to say he hasn't had good matches since then, though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Another Orton discussion YAYYYY  ?

Randell Viper All-stars peak year in-ring was 2006, but after that I'd take 2011 over every other year in-ring. matches with christian/henry/rhodes/punk/ziggler were all good to me.

Character wise LK is better than anything else he did but everyone says that


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'll be honest, Orton always bore me in the ring as a face and at the mic. He made me roote like hell for Cena at a time, and that only Dwayne could achieve this year at WM


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Sheamus/ADR NOC was very good, but how much better would've been if they kept the Brogue Kick banned.


It still played into the story of the match with Sheamus teasing hitting it at times to have Del Rio scurry away. Good stuff all around. Not to mention the Brogue Kick given at the finish - sickening. Del Rio got cut off at the pass and it's one of the more brutal looking ones for a move that's usually always brutal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Outside of the Christian series I genuinely can't remember much of Orton in 2011. Certainly nothing I'd point to as being good, anyway lol.


- Punk matches in 2011 (WM, Raw, Extreme Rules)
- Christian series (obvious one)
- Kane street fight (the one where his foot got stuck in the hole on the announce table)
- Ziggler match after SummerSlam
- Mark Henry matches
- Cody Rhodes matches (Vengeance and Street Fight)
- Otunga "street fight"









:lmao 



Brye said:


> I absolutely loved his '03-'08 stuff. Although there was a bit in '06 and '07 where he relied on rest holds a little too much. It was the viper character that stopped me from liking him. Even as a heel, I just didn't appreciate his ring work as much. That's not to say he hasn't had good matches since then, though.


His work kind of regressed when he became the Viper in 2009 and slowed it down but he's still been pretty consistent as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, time to watch Payback. 3 matches in a row I wanna watch. Not bad. Tempted to watch AJ Vs Kaitlyn too. AJ is the Lita of now for me. Don't care what's happening, I just wanna see her .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> - Punk matches in 2011 (WM, Raw, Extreme Rules)
> - Christian series (obvious one)
> - Kane street fight (the one where his foot got stuck in the hole on the announce table)
> - Ziggler match after SummerSlam
> ...


Don't think much to the Punk matches.
Christian series is awesome duh.
Not bothered about the Kane match.
Don't really like the Ziggler match.
Don't think the Henry matches are good. Overrated as FUCK.
Don't remember the Cody matches. Might not have seen them because, fuck, so dull on paper .
Didn't watch the Otunga match. I mean, it's Otunga. Why would I attempt to watch an Otunga match?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The IC Three-Way from Payback, really deserves a watch. ***1/4 from me for that one, Miz was surprisingly excellent here


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> The IC Three-Way from Payback, really deserves a watch. ***1/4 from me for that one, Miz was surprisingly excellent here


Already skipped it . Fuck ANYTHING involving Jiz, Borrett and Cuntis Axel. 3 of the worst, dullest, most useless twats in the company right now. Generic babyface Orton was like 1829456897593589756 times more interesting than them. And I often wanted to shoot myself when Orton showed up .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch AJ vs Kaitlyn, Cal. You should skip Punk vs Jericho and watch the triple threat instead. I'm actually being serious. It wasn't an awful match like how we all thought it would be.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont listen to them Cal, skip right to the MOTY of 2013 and prepare to be amazed


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Watch AJ vs Kaitlyn, Cal. You should skip Punk vs Jericho and watch the triple threat instead. I'm actually being serious. It wasn't an awful match like how we all thought it would be.


Watching AJ Vs Kaitlyn now :mark:. Gonna watch Jericho Vs Punk in the same vain I watched HHH/Lesnar cage. Kinda need to see it, even if it ends up sucking. Can't bring myself round to watching that triple threat no matter what lol. Watched the finish, thought it was dumb. Hate when WWE randomly change rules and shit for random matches.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Jericho wasn't that bad, *** from me. Not good for their standards, but an enjoyable match with a good crowd


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

No 'skins, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to Oliver.



Callamus said:


> Well, time to watch Payback. 3 matches in a row I wanna watch. Not bad. Tempted to watch AJ Vs Kaitlyn too. AJ is the Lita of now for me. Don't care what's happening, I just wanna see her .





Nostalgia said:


> By the way I was in HMV earlier and I saw they were selling Payback for like £13 or something, didn't think that was worth it at all. The only match I would like to own from Payback is Ziggler/Del Rio because it's arguably Ziggler's best career performance to date, but apart from that, the rest of the show doesn't hold up.
> 
> The opening triple threat for the IC Title was fun, but it's not a match I'd really care to watch again, *never watched AJ/Kaitlyn*, Ambrose/Kane sucked, Punk/Jericho was underwhelming and they've had much better matches before, The Shield match was average, Cena/Ryback I enjoyed more than I thought because I had no expectations for it and didn't care for the feud at all, but again not a match I'd care to watch again.


It was actually quite good, IMO.

http://vimeo.com/68532770

I could actually make a controversial statement about its standing on that night, but I won't.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Already skipped it . Fuck ANYTHING involving Jiz, Borrett and Cuntis Axel. 3 of the worst, dullest, most useless twats in the company right now. Generic babyface Orton was like 1829456897593589756 times more interesting than them. And I often wanted to shoot myself when Orton showed up .


That's some dedicated hate right there. :lol


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> The IC Three-Way from Payback, really deserves a watch. ***1/4 from me for that one, Miz was surprisingly excellent here





HayleySabin said:


> Watch AJ vs Kaitlyn, Cal. You should skip Punk vs Jericho and watch the triple threat instead. I'm actually being serious. It wasn't an awful match like how we all thought it would be.





Callamus said:


> Already skipped it . Fuck ANYTHING involving Jiz, Borrett and Cuntis Axel. 3 of the worst, dullest, most useless twats in the company right now. Generic babyface Orton was like 1829456897593589756 times more interesting than them. And I often wanted to shoot myself when Orton showed up .


Srdjan99 & HayleySabin are both right. The crowd was hot, and it actually was one of the more exciting matches of the night. You really would just negate a good match due to the participants, Cal?

Also, yeah. AJ/Kaitlyn > Punk/Jericho. That was my controversial statement. And mind you, I ordered that PPV largely on the basis of Punk's presence.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Watching AJ Vs Kaitlyn now :mark:. Gonna watch Jericho Vs Punk in the same vain I watched HHH/Lesnar cage. Kinda need to see it, even if it ends up sucking. Can't bring myself round to watching that triple threat no matter what lol. Watched the finish, thought it was dumb. Hate when WWE randomly change rules and shit for random matches.


:mark:

Well, the entrance for Punk is the best. Then the match happens. It's so bad, haha. At least I loved Lesnar vs Trips in the cage, so there was a payoff there. Well, I tried, but you know what you like mate. I had no gripes with the triple threat. Except for when I was watching it live and actually thought Miz would win. FRIGHTENING sight.

Imagine the tag team championship is the other match you'll watch along with the ever fabulous Ziggler vs Del Rio match. Unsure how you feel about the main event; it was mediocre. That's my assessment on it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I didn't enjoyed Aj/Kaitlyn that match, because I heard that Vince wanted this to be as good as the Gail/Taryn match from TNA, and it was nowhere near that. Still an enjoyable ***1/4 for me. Their MITB match is pretty good too, IMO **3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AJ Vs Kaitlyn

So AJ gets a huge pop as she comes out. Crowd go nuts for her too. I'll let that one sink in .

Holy Jebus, AJ takes one hell of a bump over the announce table! Did she practice taking bumps while teaming with Dolph all those months?

Ohhh man that sequence starting with the crucifix pin was just :mark:. LOL at Lawler "SHE DESERVES A GOOD SPANKING!".

So serious question, are people still like, hating on AJ these days? Well, maybe not so much these days after her pipebomb, but around the time of this PPV? Because I just don't get it. She's the ONLY interesting diva on the roster. She's a good wrestler (for wwe divas of course blah blah blah), and she's an AMAZING character performer be it just coming down to the ring, on the mic, and especially in the ring.

GOOD GOD. AJ takes one hell of a spear. Wouldn't mind getting the chance to spear her myself...

Kaitlyn screws herself (perves...) after the spear by not pinning AJ straight away, but instead blowing AJ a kiss and smashing her head into the mat, just a little "mind games" revenge so it's not like Kaitlyn comes across as stupid. I liked it. AJ had made her life miserable and she wanted to get more than JUST the win. But it didn't work, and in the end the Black Widow submission ends her title reign and AJ is champ :mark:. AJ rules the world. This was good. Best women's match since... that Eve match. Was it Eve Vs Kaitlyn? I don't remember. Eve was good too as far as portraying her character in matches, but wasn't half the wrestler AS was. AJ :mark:. Stars? I dunno. *** maybe? Makes it like, 5th best divas match in WWE history probably . Maybe not. Maybe one day I'll take a couple of those little blue pills and watch every women's match in the company's history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I told you just skip to the MOTY alright, listen to me :lmao

the tag match is also decent too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pop? Nuts? SPEARS? That's one of those fantasy letters that should be posted in rants isn't it?

lol @ the theory of Vince wanting it to be like that Gail vs Taryn match from TNA. How is that even possible OR a negative? He wants a women's match to be good, so that's a drawback? It wasn't even worked under the same gimmick. And FYI, the Gail vs Taryn match is the most overrated bout of 2013 _(yes, two women have that honor)_ That match is a flat out DUD. It's horseshit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mr Ziggles Vs Alberto DelNiro time. THIS BETTER BE GOOD GUYS.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

The Slammiversary Knockouts match was a great ***3/4 match in my eyes, don't be so harsh Hayley . Some starz for Cena/Ryback 3SOH? **1/2 from me, that Cena top rope crossbody was the highlight and that's sayin something


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Mr Ziggles Vs Alberto DelNiro time. THIS BETTER BE GOOD GUYS.


IF you dont like it even alittle, you can banned me from this thread :argh:, thats how much faith I have


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Fuck this, just gonna throw my Payback ratingz, then talk about every single match:

Sheamus/Sandow- **3/4
Miz/Axel/Barret- ***1/4
AJ/Kaitlyn- ***
Ambrose/Kane- **
ADR/Ziggler- ***3/4 (nowhere near MOTY)
Punk/Jericho- ***1/2
Shield/Orton&Bryan- ***1/4
Cena/Ryback- **1/2


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> The Slammiversary Knockouts match was a great ***3/4 match in my eyes, don't be so harsh Hayley . Some starz for Cena/Ryback 3SOH? **1/2 from me, that Cena top rope crossbody was the highlight and that's sayin something


I liked the Lumberjack part the best. That's a minority opinion, as most people praise the tables part. 

The ending was so comical and bad that it put me off to the match entirely. If the rest of the match was really good, I could ignore that, but it wasn't for me. It got progressively worse, IMO. 

That match is one of those judge for yourself type of the things, though, I think. It's watchable, but I wouldn't really call it good or even acceptable. Your rating is probably about what I'd give it, and I agree with you that the crossbody was the highlight.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Callamus said:


> So serious question, are people still like, hating on AJ these days? Well, maybe not so much these days after her pipebomb, but around the time of this PPV? Because I just don't get it. She's the ONLY interesting diva on the roster. She's a good wrestler (for wwe divas of course blah blah blah), and she's an AMAZING character performer be it just coming down to the ring, on the mic, and especially in the ring.


A LOT of people hate on her because of her rather youthful appearance. I personally think she's one of the best women's wrestlers in years and is insanely hot


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Great. My write up got nixed b/c this site or computer wanted to take a shit. God dammit. Such elegant praise for putting down a crummy Last Women's Standing match & Paige vs Emma too won't be seen.

Cal, I really hope you point out the best part of Del Rio vs Dolph. It should be obvious. You watch football (soccer). I think...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Alberto Del Rio Vs Dolph Ziggler

This better blow my mind or a few people gonna get got.

:mark: AJ is back.

RVD chant. How odd.

"LOT A SPUNK LEFT IN DOLPH ZIGGLER." Guess he didn't celebrate AJ's title win with her yet 8*D.

Good stuff early on, with Dolph constantly escaping to the outside to gather his thoughts and shit and avoid Del Rio from gaining the advantage as he's only just come back from his concussion. Then Del Rio gets a couple of shots in to the head of Dolph... and the lightbulb goes off. Del Rio wants the WHC and Ziggler has it... but he also has a weakness and Del Rio is gonna go after it no matter what.

Liked Big E stepping up and getting in Del Rio's face on the outside. Almost like he's calling out the BABYFACE on his dickish behavior while also buying Dolph some time, and even perhaps trying to get a DQ so Dolph retains the title and has the chance to fully recover.

Crowd play a great part in this too, slowly turning on Del Rio when they realise what an utter cunt he is.

"DOLPH IS HOLDING HIS HEAD. I BET THAT HEAD IS JUST THROBBING." Well he IS AJ's boyfriend at this point in time... .

Fuck me, Del Rio's kicks in this are TREMENDOUS. I thought they were good in the Christian SS match but fuck, amazing as hell here. The one from the apron is incredible. Causes the doctor to come out and check on him lol. Del Rio's selling of them and the whole concussion thing is fantastic too. Say what you want about how he bumps and shit but his actual SELLING is amazing too. Especially in this situation.

Ziggler's hope spots are awesome too. Fans really start to get behind him as he shows heart and all that shit. But in the end it just isn't enough, and a superkick puts him down and out. New WHC.

MOTY? No. Great match? Hells yeah. ***3/4.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Payback ratings:

Miz vs. Axel vs. Barret- *** 1/2
AJ vs. Kaitlyn- *** 1/2
Ambrose vs. Kane- * 1/2
ADR vs. Ziggler - **** 1/2 (yes it is a MOTY contender)
Punk vs. Jericho- *** 1/4
Shield vs. Orton & Bryan- Don't have memory of this, other than that it was solid, but the same thing we saw on RAW for weeks
Cena vs.Ryback- ** 1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mentioned the Langston part, but not when he touches Del Rio and Del Rio fucking FLOPS~! causing the big man to get ejected. That was the best part of the match far and away. You knew Del Rio was the biggest asshole ever after such a dirty move...against a HEEL.

I still can't believe some actually think Punk vs Jericho is good though. Bless those two for having the fans that they do. And I'm one of em, but I can't hide crap b/c I'm a big fan.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I liked Payback more than most, but I also liked Jericho vs. Punk more than most . Definitely their worst match, but I thought it was at least enjoyable

Would've been an even better event if they had a 15-18 minute match with The Shield vs. Bryan, Kane, and Orton, and they had Shield's first loss in a six-man tag match happen on PPV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

So can I stay ?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

TBH I'm not a die hard fan of neither Punk or Jericho. I just respect both of them A LOT


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Watching Rey's Biggest Little Man:

Smackdown 1/04: vs Tajiri - *** Fun, fast paced TV match. Tajiri was very underrated. GOAT Akio is interfering outside too.

GAB 2004: vs Chavo - ** This is your typical slow, overlong, over choreographed Rey vs Chavo match. Cool Rey spot at the end countering the Gory Bomb into a semi-Canadian Destroyer. 

No Way Out '05: w/Eddie Guerrero vs. The Bashams - ** Ruined by Eddie's overused, annoying, cartoony belt/ref spot. Saved by Rey's awesome, innovative spot to get the hot tag. Oh and Basham's suck at everything.

Judgment Day '05: vs. Eddie Guerrero - ** This match was 30+ minutes! My God was it boring and over dramatic. The ending and post-match saved it. Always hated Eddie matches being like this.

WM22: vs. Kurt Angle vs. Randy Orton - *** Angle was possessed and dominated the match. Chicago crowd were super into Kurt and booed Rey so much even Taz commented on it. Rey with DAT 619 botch, in the most important match of his life. Wish Kurt won and it was longer. Oh and Boreton was there too.

Judgment Day '06: vs. JBL - *** This was fun. JBL pulling out all the heel tactics and pummelling Rey to a rare bloody mess. A different type of Rey match here, much more aggressive and psychological.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*** for the WM22 match? It doesn't get more than a ** from me. You're 100%right about Tajiri, really underrated worker


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh my, oh my, oh my.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think you missed about **1/2 from the JD 05 Eddie match...


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

CM BORK said:


> Judgment Day '05: vs. Eddie Guerrero - ** This match was 30+ minutes! My God was it boring and over dramatic. The ending and post-match saved it. Always hated Eddie matches being like this.


I'm interested in your rating for their WM21 match :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And he was about twelve minutes overboard on the duration.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

@ eddie/Rey JD 05 rating- TELL ME i DIDNT JUST SEE THAT

And its not that long, and I pretty much have ADD when it comes to matches


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I still can't believe some actually think Punk vs Jericho is good though. Bless those two for having the fans that they do. And I'm one of em, but I can't hide crap b/c I'm a big fan.


I hated the first half, and actually said "wtf is this" as it was happening. I got into the second half, though, which is why it gets any kind of positivity from me. I've only seen it once, though, which is why I'm more generous with the rating than my instincts would suggest. I almost wrote **3/4 - ***, but then remembered that I did get into it at the end, so I was probably being a little harsh.

I still don't think it was by any means great, or even that good, and it floored me when half the board voted it best of the night. I saw many people giving it **** 1/4+. I don't get that at all.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I know it's only one man's opinion, but I just don't get how Punk vs. Jericho from WM28 got :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer 3/4 and Payback got :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer 1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Their WM match is really good, **** for that one or ****1/4, dunno really. Seen that WWE posted the match on YT


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> I know it's only one man's opinion, but I just don't get how Punk vs. Jericho from WM28 got :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer 3/4 and Payback got :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer :meltzer 1/2


 He likes matches that have a loud crowd. It's the same reason why he rated Rock/Punk I **** which is strange.

What's the general opinion on the Y2J/Punk match at ER 2012? I remember some saying it was great but not that great on a couple of rewatches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finisher fest doesn't increase a match for me, unless it builds sufficiently to the bombs being thrown. Punk & Jericho didn't do that. It was a few bits of ground work then oh lets bring it home for the next 14 minutes. Not fun. Not fun at all. The next night Punk had himself a good match vs Del Rio and ended up righting the wrong. It's probably going to remain the biggest disappointment for me on the year. Nothing else comes close for matches I had expectations for.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho

The crowd kinda like Punk. A little bit. Not much. LOL. 

So the story of this match is that Punk has been away for TWO MONTHS and isn't in ring shape and shit. Ok. How often do guys return from LONGER periods of being away and are fine? Jericho returned at the Rumble earlier in the year after being gone for what, 6 months or something? And he lasted like 40 minutes or so and was fine. So what's so special... or unspecial (?) about Punk that he isn't fine after just 2 months?

In ring stuff is... eh. Basic holds and counters, Punk breathes heavy... and then they decide to throw finishers at each other. And that's that.

I mean it. That's that. Nothing else to talk about whatsoever. Well except for the fact the finishers just keep going on and on and on and on and on. Felt a little like Rock/Cena II where they spent the majority of the match just lobbing finishers at each other and after like the 5th one it just gets dull. Some people CAN have matches with long finishing stretches with a bunch of finishers and finisher kickouts. Apparently these two can't. Not with each other at least.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Oliver-94 said:


> He likes matches that have a loud crowd. It's the same reason why he rated Rock/Punk I **** which is strange.
> 
> What's the general opinion on the Y2J/Punk match at ER 2012? I remember some saying it was great but not that great on a couple of rewatches.


I have no problem with raising the rating for a match that has a better atmosphere, but then Punk vs. Jericho from Payback has the same rating as Punk vs. Lesnar, which also had a good crowd (putting myself over a bit ).


----------



## CM BORK (Aug 16, 2013)

Sorry, but I was never a fan of Eddie's matches. Always respected his in-ring talent and natural charisma. The problem with his matches is that there is always WAY too much melodrama. All the repeated cartoony belt/ref spots etc. It was like watching AE matches. As a face he smiled more than Cena, as a heel he had that constant deranged soap opera stare. 
I just wish he was more like Benoit and let his ring work do the talking. All the drama was unnecessary. The only Eddie matches I like is vs Brock NWO and vs JBL JD.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn, why did Paramore fan's brother have to dislike Flatbush Zombies? What a damn shame.



redskins25 said:


> This may be unpopular opinion and hope I don't get killed for it, but besides a few matches I can live without most of 91-96 of Bret hart matches, I love the hart foundation of late 80s and 97 Bret was great, but beside that IDK, People get on Cena but Bret falls under the same catogory sometimes that he does the same thing all the time


This is actually a pretty nice topic of discussion. I know many of us talk about how the reason we may dislike a specific wrestler is because all of their matches are wrestled the exact same way. However, if you really think about it, a lot of our favorites fall into that same category of wrestlers that don't really change up their style. Why is it that someone like Cena gets flack for it?

Take for instance Rey Mysterio. Nobody here will be stupid enough to deny the fact that almost all of his matches largely revolve around the same general formula. The man however is not criticized for it (except by a small few), and for good reason. The same goes with Bret as well. There's a reason why the 5MOD came from him. I guess the key here is the fact that Mysterio and Bret may not have wrestled many different styles like an Eddie Guerrero, but not only did they master their style, but they wrestled in a manner that made them so adaptable. What I mean here is that you can insert Mysterio into just about any situation with any wrestler on this planet that you want, and because of how adaptable his style is, you are certain to get a good match.

Now as for John Cena. My personal feelings of him are that he is a very good worker and among the best main event wrestlers the company ever had. However, I think the difference between him and Bret is that Cena's primary style that he employs on an everyday basis is not his best. I always felt that Cena was at his best when he was in a hostile environment or against another face which allows him to go out of his comfort zone and play up some heelish tendencies. Inherently, this style cannot be employed on an everyday basis because then it wouldn't be special seeing him go out of his comfort zone anymore. I guess with a guy like Cena, it is probably best for him to regularly switch up his style rather than stick with one because until he finds that Mysterio-like style that fits him perfectly *and* can be employed on an everyday basis, people will continue to get tired of everyday in-ring work and criticize him for doing the same thing.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> I have no problem with raising the rating for a match that has a better atmosphere, but then Punk vs. Jericho from Payback has the same rating as Punk vs. Lesnar, which also had a good crowd (putting myself over a bit ).


 And he rated Rock/Hogan only *** despite the hot crowd lol


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Jericho from ER is a very good match, but the ending was quite bad, IMO, ***3/4 for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Someone here mentioned it, I agree that matches you're highly antecipating and turn out to blow a shitdick are the ones that are harder to pummel. Three perfect, recent examples of that:


























These sucking are far harder pillows to swallow than say a Khali/Otunga or JR/Cole sucking.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Who the FUCK was expecting Punk Vs ROCK to be any good? Ummm... hello? Rock sucks. Duh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got hyped that Punk may not make it the shittiest thing ever b/c of that phenomenal promo he had on RAW. Fucking Punk. WHY DID HE TOY WITH MY EMOTIONS B/C HE'S SO GOOD? lol Rock. What a moron.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Who expected something from a Sheamus/Henry Strap Match )? And not even Lesnar could get a good match from Goldberg, the WOAT. Seriously, in my eyes Goldberg is the worse upper-midcarder/main-eventer the WWE ever had in terms of in-ring work


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

CM BORK said:


> Sorry, but I was never a fan of Eddie's matches. Always respected his in-ring talent and natural charisma. The problem with his matches is that there is always WAY too much melodrama. All the repeated cartoony belt/ref spots etc. It was like watching AE matches. As a face he smiled more than Cena, as a heel he had that constant deranged soap opera stare.
> I just wish he was more like Benoit and let his ring work do the talking. All the drama was unnecessary. The only Eddie matches I like is vs Brock NWO and vs JBL JD.



Dude....just no.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that yours is so far off base as to be rendered absurd.

I can't fathom how you can watch an Eddie Guerrero character performance as a heel and say he was anything other than a genius savant, a true master, of how to be a heel in a wrestling ring. This isn't just me being a a massive Eddie fan talking, I think anyone that knows anything about wrestling can acknowledge the greatness of Eddie Guerrero. You see Eddies character work and wish he was more like BENOIT? Seriously? I love Benoit to death and consider him to be the greatest worker of all time, but even I know he can't hold a Eddies jock when it comes to character work. Eddie was the ultimate master of both face and heel psychology. That Judgement Day match is a work of freaking art. It should be treasured. I dare say no one on the current roster can work both face and heel as effectively as Eddie, Punk is the only one who comes within sniffing distance.

I could go on and on but I'm not, cause arguing about opinions is silly. But Jesus Christ, I didn't know that people existed who thought Eddie was a bad wrestler and had unenjoyable matches. How is that even possible?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/CM Punk had the most potential out of the matches you picked. I loved the storyline between the two, it was simple and to the point; CM Punk wanted to prove he was the greatest champion by beating a big name and the Rock wanted to create a great 'sporting' moment by winning the WWE title for the first time in a decade (similar to George Foreman). The whole thing made sense with CM Punk turning heel on the Rock and Rock returning to address the attack. The promo work was great as well and it's a shame some marks choose to go with the 'he owned him' arguments instead of enjoying the intensity and meaning of the promos. I know Rock gets criticised for his promo work but I thought he did well by stating how important the belt was and he put over CM Punk every week prior to their first match (and even after the feud officially finished). The RAW go-home show to the Rumble is my favourite segment between the two where Rock gets attacked by the Shield and CM Punk is standing on top. Reminded me of the Gladiators film for some reason


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Who expected something from a Sheamus/Henry Strap Match )? And not even Lesnar could get a good match from Goldberg, the WOAT. Seriously, in my eyes Goldberg is the worse upper-midcarder/main-eventer the WWE ever had in terms of in-ring work


Goldberg was better than Triple H during the time both were in the WWE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Who the FUCK was expecting Punk Vs ROCK to be any good? Ummm... hello? Rock sucks. Duh.


Huh... everyfuckingbody? I know Rock sucks but he had Punk in there with him. Didn't expect he'd fuck up too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

YAY, I'm almost finished with 2007 and only got 5 or so more shows to go including Vengeance: Night of Champions. It's so boring to watch, I have to do lots of skipping. :lol @ Vince's limo blowing up and then when they do the bell thing 10 times on ECW, fans boo and Styles/Tazz talk over it. Such a pointless angle, funniest part is that they still bring it up occasionally on their site and have the nerve to say shit like "The person responsible was never caught" as if the storyline actually continued and wasn't stopped because the man they hate to mention died.

On the same show, watched Benoit's second last match with Punk against OG Langston and Burke. He looks legit like he doesn't wanna be there. First when the ECW draft happened and he had that look of disappointment on his face and now in this match he's extra aggressive with his offense like he's taking out all his frustrations in the ring.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton Vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns

The more I see of Reigns the more I fucking love him. Calling it now, he becomes WHC before anyone else from The Shield. Assuming anyone else gets there. Well Seth will I'm sure. Big babyface win for him in a couple of years time. Unsure on Ambrose these days. His character work is tremendous but unless he's in the ring with the absolute right guy he just sucks. Regal was right. Rollins was right. Hell even Sandow was right. Bryan was right. Undertaker was right. Kane... I avoided. Kofi? HA! RVD? Urgh.

Lol, Reigns has Bryan in a sleeper hold and you can just hear some creepy voice in the background saying "We are the tag team champions, Bryan". And it's Rollins being awesome on the apron :lmao.

Oh god Orton tagged in. Those fucking robot clotheslines. Makes me wanna shoot myself. :lmao even the crowd die down once Orton comes into the ring.

Sweet Jebus that was dull. Orton as FIP just doesn't work lol. Crowd were dead, action was dull, Orton was uninspiring as the babyface. Then Bryan gets the tag and the crowd come UNGLUED and shit gets fun again. Finish is great.

Honestly, this might be the worst Shield tag match that didn't see them again nobodies. I'm beyond disappointed tbh . I was expecting greatness here.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Damn, why did Paramore fan's brother have to dislike Flatbush Zombies? What a damn shame.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Someone responded :cheer:cheer:
Yea I just got that sense as Ive been watching hitman recently, I like in the years I pointed out, he was very forumlaic, irsh whip, running bulldog, headlock, russian leg sweep, and that thing where he runs behind the guy to the middle of the ropes and suplexes them ? Yea same thing all the time, I had that he put guys in head locks for HOURS

I just watched the whole henning series and its the same thing


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Who expected something from a Sheamus/Henry Strap Match )? And not even Lesnar could get a good match from Goldberg, the WOAT. Seriously, in my eyes Goldberg is the worse upper-midcarder/main-eventer the WWE ever had in terms of in-ring work


Sheamus/Henry. That is enough to buy me 

And Lesnar WAS good enough, and he could've, but he just didn't gave a flying fuck about doing it, and neither was Goldberg interested.

And I forgot bout this:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ROMAN FUCKIN REIGNS.

where did he come from, huh? guy is the coolest. The chemistry he has with Rollins as a team has me excited if they ever have a match down the road. Rollins bumps like an absolute mad man every night. Imagine the spear. No really. Actually imagine the spear. The funeral service won't be long after.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, at least it turned out well for Bryan himself. And their 2/3 falls match the next month was phenomenal :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It wasn't their fault that they got 18 seconds. Their ER match is a masterpiece


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Sheamus vs Danielson actually got to happen, WrestleMania 28 would be better on the overall curve. It really would. 

_*sigh*_


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Roman Reigns has the best scream in the world!

He should become a big star.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Cactus Jack said:


> Dude....just no.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that yours is so far off base as to be rendered absurd.
> 
> ...


Yeah I have a hard time understanding that critique of Eddie. I wouldn't consider myself to be a huge fan of him or anything but I watched his WWE DVD set and you can't deny that he was amazing as both a face and a heel. I think that's really what makes me think so highly of him. You could have a debate about whether he was a better face or a heel and I don't think I would say either side would be wrong. He's great in the ring and can play an amazing character. I would put him over Benoit any day. 


So I finished up the War Games set. There were some great earlier matches of course but what I was more impressed with than anything was the 1996 War Games. I was a kid when the NWO was formed so I guess I really didn't have the historical perspective necessary to really understand how big of a deal it was. After seeing all the other matches and seeing Arn Anderson play a heel in EVERY single one of those matches it was incredible to see him for the first time play a face. Seeing the crowd go insane for him as a face was a really special moment and probably my favorite part about the set.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wonder what their WM 27 match would have been like . Instead their dark match got turned into some shitty battle royal or something. FUCK YOU ROCK. They took the US title match with ooodles of potential to be great off the show so Rock cut literally say utter shite for however fucking long? Seriously? What benefit did that have? At all? Did hardcore Rock fans who fap to his every promo even think that was a good use of time?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, regardless of who's fault it was, 18 fucking seconds was the tale told. The Extreme Rules 2/3 falls, due to how awesome it was, was a BIG slap in the face who were anticipating to see them at *WrestleMania*.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I remember how pissed I was watching Mania 27 at my friend's house because Bryan was left off the card. Not only that, but also because the event sucked unk3


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not only did they get bumped from the show, but they got bumped from the pre-show for a battle royal. That whole segment go around twenty minutes. Why couldn't that have been a long ass match before the show began to somehow cushion the terrible blow that was giving Rock way too much time on the main show? So many problems on that trainwreck of a show. It wasn't a WM. It was a disgrace of a PPV in front of a really large crowd. That's all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I paid money TWO YEARS IN A ROW to see Bryan/Sheamus and WWE screwed me over twice. Cunts.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WM 27 is the only WM since 17 that I didn't watch live )


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE sure is odd. Bumps Danielson from WM two years in a row, yet he's found successes up and down his career. One legit WM match under his belt and he's already been both WWE & World Champion.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

One thing that really excites me about WrestleMania 30 is that is *has* to be the first Mania where Bryan gets to put on a great match. 

They won't screw him over again, right? Right?!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Hope that he'll get to work with Punk at WM30. Or HHH, who knows?


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Watched Royal Rumble 2010 today...

Decent show really, enjoyed the face v face match from Rey and Taker. Would of liked to see a longer match between the two. Ended as it was getting really good! The show ended about 20 minutes early too, don't know why they couldn't have got more time. Some really good counters here and there styles worked well. ***3/4.

Rumble match was decent, nothing special. CM Punk was the best part of it and he went fairly early. Fun match and very watchable. ***3/4.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh man, you guys just had to bring up Mania 28 Sheamus/Bryan again, didn't you? I think I actually threw up in my mouth a little when that happened. Dissapointed doesn't even do it justice. Crestfallen. Heartbroken. That's more accurate. Hindsight is 20-20 and yes 18 seconds definitely helped Bryan in the long run, but man was that ever brutal to have to stomach when it happened live. Still bitter about that one, ill be honest.

My hope is for WWE to give us the dream match set up for Mania 30. Bryan vs Punk in the Main Event for the WWE title. Cena vs Taker on 3rd to last. Then something like Orton vs Brock or Sheamus vs Brock on 2nd to last. That would do nicely. Chances of it happening? 2%. But still. We can still hope.

I like Cal and Hayley talking about Reigns, the guy has really, really impressed me this past year. He was supposed to be the most "raw" prospect out of the 3, but I think he's also the most natural performer out of the 3. Rollins is a phenomenal wrestler too, as someone said I've definitely imagined what a series of matches between Rollins and Reigns would turn out like. They seem like they would be fabulous as opponents. I can safely say The Shield and Hell No are the 2 greatest teams since the Hardys, Dudley's, and EC went at in 2000. It's like I'm sort of torn, on one hand I can't wait till they split the Shield up so I can see all the wonderful singles contests I've been envisioning the past few months. On the other, they work so damn well as a team I know as soon as they are gone I will miss them dearly and wish for them to bring the band back together. I'm kinda hoping they don't end up feuding with each other from the start of the break up, so they can wrestle as either singles or as a team for a while.


Edit- I need some help from you fine gentleman. I'm currently engaged in a heated argument with my uncle about what the biggest match in wrestling history that never happened is. He says its Hogan vs Flair in 1988. I say it's Austin vs Goldberg in 1998. Which one is right? Or are both of us wrong?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> - Punk matches in 2011 (WM, Raw, Extreme Rules)
> - Christian series (obvious one)
> - Kane street fight (the one where his foot got stuck in the hole on the announce table)
> - Ziggler match after SummerSlam
> ...


Didn't care too much for the Kane matches, and I only enjoyed the Orton/Henry match when Henry won the title for that shock moment and Henry being and unstoppable force, but other that, I agree with the other mentions.

Orton/Otunga was just funny. :lol



Callamus said:


> Already skipped it . Fuck ANYTHING involving Jiz, Borrett and Cuntis Axel. 3 of the worst, dullest, most useless twats in the company right now. Generic babyface Orton was like 1829456897593589756 times more interesting than them. And I often wanted to shoot myself when Orton showed up .


I think others did too. I went in with no expectations and expecting it to totally suck, but to my surprise (and others) it turned out to be quite a decent little triple threat. ***3/4* I think I gave it. At least I gave it a chance.  



LilOlMe said:


> It was actually quite good, IMO.
> 
> http://vimeo.com/68532770
> 
> I could actually make a controversial statement about its standing on that night, but I won't.


I saw the ending but that was pretty much it, so I didn't really see any of the match, but all I've heard since was it was a great divas match and apparently one of the best in a long time. I remember I was streaming Payback and and as soon as the divas match came on I watched a few videos on YouTube, I just thought it was going to be another shitty divas match because Kaitlyn sucks and I thought it was only going to be a few minutes, but I was surprised to see a divas match get a good amount of time for once.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I think the biggest match that didn't happen was indeed Flair/Hogan but in 92 not 88. The reason I choose this is because WWE could have actually done it. That match should have main evented Wrestlemania VIII.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Flair/Hogan matches we did end up getting were terrible. All of them.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For any of you that haven't seen the Jake Roberts: Pick Your Poison documentary, I strongly urge you to go watch ASAP. It's on YouTube. I'm sick as a dog and can't go out tonight so I turned it on after seeing Cal rank it as one of his faves, and I have to say, I'm completely and utterly captivated. Jake is telling these awful stories but he just sucks you right in. I'm only 20 minutes in and already loving it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Flair/Hogan matches we did end up getting were terrible. All of them.


I've seen some from MSG and they weren't anything amazing. I did mark like crazy when Flair won by DQ in one of them but than the decision was reversed. 


Talking about Bryan/Sheamus from either Mania makes me sick. I was at both of them and I wanted to cry at the start of both Mania because of how he was treated. It might sound a little lame but I was so excited to see the guy that basically made me like indy wrestling wrestle on the biggest stage. I'm a huge fan of the guy. I went to my first ROH show because it was his last indy match and I wanted to see him there one last time. When he was released I basically booked a mini vacation that summer to see him wrestle on 2 indy shows. It just seemed cool that a guy I saw wrestle in front of tiny crowds and had been a fan of a long time was wrestling on the biggest wrestling show of the year. And WWE went and ruined that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hardy/Punk from The Bash in 2009 is really, really good. It's another example of a match that doesn't get the credit that it deserves because it was more of a feud-advancer than a match with a conclusive ending. Still, it was damn good and both guys clicked here. I urge you guys to watch this match again. Probably somewhere around the ****3/4* range.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

TaylorFitz said:


> I've seen some from MSG and they weren't anything amazing. I did mark like crazy when Flair won by DQ in one of them but than the decision was reversed.
> 
> 
> Talking about Bryan/Sheamus from either Mania makes me sick. I was at both of them and I wanted to cry at the start of both Mania because of how he was treated. It might sound a little lame but I was so excited to see the guy that basically made me like indy wrestling wrestle on the biggest stage. I'm a huge fan of the guy. I went to my first ROH show because it was his last indy match and I wanted to see him there one last time. When he was released I basically booked a mini vacation that summer to see him wrestle on 2 indy shows. It just seemed cool that a guy I saw wrestle in front of tiny crowds and had been a fan of a long time was wrestling on the biggest wrestling show of the year. And WWE went and ruined that.


Holy shit. So my anger and frustration pales in comparison to yours, because I've been following Danielson for a really long time through the Internet, but I never saw him wrestle live until 2012.

But like I said, there's a great chance next year that Bryan finally gets a high-profile match at Mania :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn near all the Hogan vs Flair matches were good, actually.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching Bryan vs. Punk from Over The Limit 2012 on YouTube, because why pass up on Bryan vs. Punk in HD? I've only seen this twice, maybe three times, so I'm looking forward to this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Been wanting to pop that on so much this past week. Haven't b/c I plan on watching the whole show over again and rather just wait to do it then. Their first match in 2012 on RAW got me all jazzed up. Plus, I always watch their MITB match a lot more. I prefer the rematch, but have no idea why I always shun out the OTL match. I'm under-appreciating it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching the documentary for _Heartbreak and Triumph_. Good documentary and liked how it went through the chapters of Shawn's first run and even his personal issues.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I really loved punk/bryan otl, like its near 5*, you cant take your eyes off it, beautiful stuff

watching a mixture of HHH/Batista HIAC and goodfellas lol, but I honeslty cant finish the HIAC why is it so long ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, I just don't get what people saw in the Halloween Havoc cage match. All I saw was a horrible babyface performance from Hogan where he attacked a woman and no-selled an injury in a cage match that did not feel like a classic NWA/WCW cage match at all. Felt more like a bad AE clusterfuck cage match. And the BATB match made me fall asleep. I guess the COTC match wasn't too bad. Maybe I should rewatch that.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Wow, I really liked the Foley doc. Felt bad that he always seemed to want to get out of the business and then something would happen. He seems like the fucking man, though.

I could watch those Commissioner clips for ages.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Other than the shitty main-event, OTL 2012 was a pretty good PPV. Christian returning and winning that battle royal was a mark out moment for me, and that was followed up by a decent Christian/Rhodes match later on. Tag Title match was solid iirc, although I never liked when Ziggler was teaming up with Swagger. World Title 4 way was very good imo, and then we had the great Punk/Bryan match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never had a problem with the duration. That's one of the few Triple H matches that I'm actually engrossed by the whole way. It's really fantastic. Captures the intensity & pain that HIAC likes to bring. Or liked. Glad that program ended on a high note b/c I gave zero damns about it as it was happening.

Too bad Cena & JBL didn't get a third match in 2005. Batista vs Trips was able to rectify themselves with the third outing b/c their first two were bad. Cena & JBL had two bleh PPV matches in a row. The I Quit was an improvement from the DUD @ Mania, but it still was a weak match. Certainly nothing special pardon some spots at the end that the fans went nuts for.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked zig-swagg for alt bit, I fucking marked when ziggler wore that singlet during the "perfection"days forget the match


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan and Punk's respective looks have changed quite a bit over the past year, huh? 

Loving it so far, but my damn internet is making the video buffer :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> Other than the shitty main-event, OTL 2012 was a pretty good PPV. Christian returning and winning that battle royal was a mark out moment for me, and that was followed up by a decent Christian/Rhodes match later on. Tag Title match was solid iirc, although I never liked when Ziggler was teaming up with Swagger. World Title 4 way was very good imo, and then we had the great Punk/Bryan match.


Yep. What I've been saying since I saw it last year.

Show isn't bad at all. Only it has that horrendous match that ended the show. If Cena vs Ace switched places with Punker vs Danielson, the outlook on it wouldn't be negative. 

the tag match is seriously my favorite match on the show that isn't Punk vs Danielson. I think it's really good. Loved the Dolph & Swagger team.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> Never had a problem with the duration. That's one of the few Triple H matches that I'm actually engrossed by the whole way. It's really fantastic. Captures the intensity & pain that HIAC likes to bring.


This. It's personally my favorite HIAC match.

You should give your full attention redskins, it's really that good.



HayleySabin said:


> Yep. What I've been saying since I saw it last year.
> 
> Show isn't bad at all. Only it has that horrendous match that ended the show. If Cena vs Ace switched places with Punker vs Danielson, the outlook on it wouldn't be negative.
> 
> the tag match is seriously my favorite match on the show that isn't Punk vs Danielson. I think it's really good. Loved the Dolph & Swagger team.


It was a crime that Cena/Laurinaitis main-evented over Punk/Bryan.

I didn't like the Dolph/Swagger team because I really thought it was holding Ziggler back at the time, plus I've never liked Swagger... but they produced some good matches together.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Brye said:


> Wow, I really liked the Foley doc. Felt bad that he always seemed to want to get out of the business and then something would happen. He seems like the fucking man, though.
> 
> I could watch those Commissioner clips for ages.


 Yeah Foley was awesome. His hall of fame tribute video always gives me goosebumps. Just the song of choice, footage of his childhood days and his title victory is really inspiring that anyone can achieve their dreams. I can understand why some call him the GOAT on the mic considering he was extremely versatile and most importantly, believable. He was never one of those wrestlers that was booked strongly (compared to other big stars) but at the same time, when he lost to young and upcoming talent, it meant a lot.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No I like it its just long as fuck


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> This. It's personally my favorite HIAC match.
> 
> You should give your full attention redskins, it's really that good.
> 
> ...


It sucks, but we ALL knew it was going to happen. No sense in complaining still. This is the way the company works.

I had no problems b/c the company had nothing else for Dolph & were clearly waiting for MITB to finally give him something. So if in the meantime he'll stick with Swagger, so be it. Besides, this company always has him going up and down that I was used to it. Being used in some capacity was the silver lining. Even being at Extreme Rules sufficed b/c they had faith in him to be a good established name to make Clay's win feel like it was worth a damn. Two months later Dolph was way ahead of the guy. And still is. I choose to look at the wins and not the losses.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea a enjoyed zigg swagg ( did they ever have a name ?) Its was good for what it is, and it really didnt hold Dolph back because the casuals were still try to get behind him, and when they fully pulled the trigger and let him go around nwo 12 it worked

I was actually gonna point it out too, been a long time since I say a HIAC like this


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

It still felt like they were trying to push Swagger instead of Ziggler at that time. Swagger won the US title, was protected (Clay beat him via count out) and Ziggler was taking most of the pinfalls in the tag team match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Zig Swagg. Damn. That's awesome. I always called them "Perfect Americans" to fuse both of their themes. I feel so low with my creativity now. 

My pride has been seared.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan vs. Punk is just as amazing as I remember, and that was my first watch in over a year unk 

Gonna watch Bryan vs. Ziggler from Bragging Rights for the first time, as I'm waiting on one of my friends to go and get something to eat, and he's taking forever :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

starting NWO 2001. I know people hate on 3SOH but I bet its fun. 

Heard the IC title 4 way is FUN FUN


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hardcore championship match is something else...

something all right.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Glad I'm not the only one that didn't care too much for Cena/JBL I Quit. A recent watch kinda disappointed me. Kinda felt like a typical WWE gimmick main event match based almost entirely on spots. I'll still call it a good match, but it's not the *****1/2* classic that I once had it at. I remember they had a match at another Judgment Day that wasn't too bad.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Zig Swagg. Damn. That's awesome. I always called them "Perfect Americans" to fuse both of their themes. I feel so low with my creativity now.
> 
> My pride has been seared.


:lmao dont be, honestly the first time I saw them together, I thought of that, its goes so perfectly

focusing in on this HIAC I swear I have ADD though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Glad I'm not the only one that didn't care too much for Cena/JBL I Quit. A recent watch kinda disappointed me. Kinda felt like a typical WWE gimmick main event match based almost entirely on spots. I'll still call it a good match, but it's not the *****1/2* classic that I once had it at. I remember they had a match at another Judgment Day that wasn't too bad.


I can watch it and have no problems with it in that sense, but it's really nothing special like I - too - originally thought. The blood is still immense. Something about Judgment Day two years in a row. Best part of the match, without a doubt, is the callback to the Eddie match from the year before. Great touch.



redskins25 said:


> :lmao dont be, honestly the first time I saw them together, I thought of that, its goes so perfectly
> 
> focusing in on this HIAC I swear I have ADD though


You win this round. It was a bad year for me in 2011 with tag names. I hated the Air Boom name so I just kept calling them High Energy II. I'm so original. :hayley2


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Don't know how I've never seen it until tonight, but Bryan vs. Ziggler from Bragging Rights was an awesome opener. 

Everything feels so different, even though the match is fairly recent in the grand scheme of things. Ziggler with his old entrance music, no ass shaking, Lawler not shutting up about Vicki (okay, maybe that hasn't changed), Daniel Bryan with short hair and stubble, no YES chants, MATT STRYKER, etc. The match was well worth the watch though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao air boom, I forgot about those guys good lord, 2011 seems so long ago, As bad as that dance off was on sd this week we got a semi awesome truth reunion

Ziggles/bryan is very good, surreal to see where they are now or atleast one


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

that hardcore title match......the fuck did I just watch?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Told you that Hardcore championship match was something. Oh that booking.

Danielson vs Ziggler from Bragging Rights 2010 is :mark: x100


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Another Orton discussion YAYYYY  ?
> 
> *Randell Viper All-stars peak year in-ring was 2006,* but after that I'd take 2011 over every other year in-ring. matches with christian/henry/rhodes/punk/ziggler were all good to me.
> 
> Character wise LK is better than anything else he did but everyone says that


Out of curiosity what did you like so much about Orton's '06? Aside from the first few months with matches against Benoit & Rey I can't really think of anything else all that great. Two matches with Angle & Summerslam against Hogan. YAWN.  Formation of Rated RKO happened late but they didn't do much in '06 iirc.



CM BORK said:


> Watching Rey's Biggest Little Man:
> 
> GAB 2004: vs Chavo - ** This is your typical slow, overlong, over choreographed Rey vs Chavo match. Cool Rey spot at the end countering the Gory Bomb into a semi-Canadian Destroyer.
> 
> Judgment Day '05: vs. Eddie Guerrero - ** This match was 30+ minutes! My God was it boring and over dramatic. The ending and post-match saved it. Always hated Eddie matches being like this.


GTFO. Both those matches are excellent.



Oliver-94 said:


> What's the general opinion on the Y2J/Punk match at ER 2012? I remember some saying it was great but not that great on a couple of rewatches.


Awesome stuff. can't really explain why but it just didn't feel like a WWE style match to me. Felt like something I'd seen in 2003-2007 ROH. Maybe it was the street clothes or the big elbow spot but somethin just screamed indy to me. **** though, which is amazingly the 3rd best match on that show.



funnyfaces1 said:


> The Flair/Hogan matches we did end up getting were terrible. All of them.


LIES


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

PGSucks said:


> Holy shit. So my anger and frustration pales in comparison to yours, because I've been following Danielson for a really long time through the Internet, but I never saw him wrestle live until 2012.
> 
> But like I said, there's a great chance next year that Bryan finally gets a high-profile match at Mania :mark:


Wrestlemania 28 wasn't that bad. My little sister is a huge fan of Sheamus and I told her I was going to call from the arena as soon as Bryan beat Sheamus. She found the whole thing hilarious when I called her so that was cool at least. I also kind of saw the whole thing coming. I didn't think it would be 18 seconds but I was worried Bryan was going to get squashed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hogan vs Orton > both Orton vs Angle matches on PPV in 2006. Angle, lolz. Hogan's better than you with a hip replacement.

Seriously every match talked about on this page _(that was put over...)_ I want to watch. So in the mood for a lot of Hogan right now. Dust off that awesome Unreleased Set and let the fun times roll. HOGAN.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Out of curiosity what did you like so much about Orton's '06? Aside from the first few months with matches against Benoit & Rey I can't really think of anything else all that great. Two matches with Angle & Summerslam against Hogan. YAWN.  Formation of Rated RKO happened late but they didn't do much in '06 iirc.


You got me there MEANT to say overall, 

in-ring- my MOTY for that year is either the NHB benoit or the sd with rey, flip a coin, the nwo match with rey is good also, I'm much higher on the wm 22 triple threat than most on here, a guess guilty pleasure. I like his promos and his character, a pudge asshole :lol, he wrestled that way also, but there it all went down hill, started relying on restholds and ....................................... you know the rest

I'd like to watch a flair/hogan just for the clash of giants


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Don't you just hate that? Like I'm tryin to get through the Mid South set and go back and watch MITB from this year, but every time something is brought up in this thread, I just wanna watch it immediately. I almost bought Vol. 3 of the Royal Rumble Anthology (1998-2002) as a complete impulse buy because of you motherfuckers. :lol

edit: feel ya redskins. My favorite Orton year by far is '04 though. Fuckin loved that guy all year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Also I forgot to add, I liked rated rko so yea, you never believe it, I use to love randy orton, he was my cousin favorite, I honestly did the pose everyday, just a cocky bastard and then 07-present happened, you hear all the shit backstage which doesnt bother me , but he kills ppl pushes, and is just given and given opportunities while other don't, and he got boring in the ring

04 viper ? I like him, I LOVED evolution though so yea


I would tell you to just call me Greg or skins, (better beat the packers) but judging by the fact that TLK name and can cause confusion its jelly


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Heading to this new movie store called replays near my house soon, hoping their is a TON of stuff their. 

Most awesome matches on one card of all time? ER 2012 has to be up there IMO

Kane vs Orton: ****
Sheamus vs DB: **** 1/2*
CM Punk vs Y2J: ****
Bork vs Cena: *****

Summerslam 2002 may be its only competition along with MAYBE WM 19


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not gonna be easy at Lambeau tomorrow, hopefully they play the whole game like they played the 4th quarter against Philly. THEN they may have a chance, RG3 needs to get in that groove again. I have faith in the defense to get pressure on Rodgers. Shame I'll have to miss it since I work all day...

Anywayyyyy, back on topic. I think you're a little high on Kane.Orton (*** 1/4 for me) but yeah Extreme Rules 2012 is probably one of my favorite shows of all time. Seen it in full twice and everything just works so well on the card. EVERYTHING


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Out of curiosity what did you like so much about Orton's '06? Aside from the first few months with matches against Benoit & Rey I can't really think of anything else all that great. Two matches with Angle & Summerslam against Hogan. YAWN.  Formation of Rated RKO happened late but they didn't do much in '06 iirc.


Orton in 2006 was fucking awesome. First his excellent heel work in the first four months on Smackdown, then he actually had a good match with a crippled Hogan. But admittedly, his Raw run in that year was pretty uneventful until Rated RKO formed. Obviously nothing compared to the year of the ELBOW PADS but he was still on top of his game.

And the Angle match on Smackdown was actually great, easily better than One Night Stand and probably beats Vengeance by a bit. (even though I ranked Vengeance much higher in my list)

EDIT: In the mood for some BORK LASER. Thinking of the Hogan match then Punk. That backstage segment with Hogan before their match is hilarious. :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm pretty confident on **** for Kane/Orton. So much better then their mania match IMO


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Legends of Mid-South Wrestling - Disc One*

Ted Dibiase vs. Paul Orndorff - * 3/4
_December 10, 1981

_Andre The Giant, Dusty Rhodes, & Junkyard Dog vs. Ernie Ladd & The Wild Samoans - *
_January 14, 1982_

*North American & Mid-South Tag Team Championship - No Dsiqualification
*Junkyard Dog & Mr. Olympia (c) vs. Ted Dibiase & Matt Borne - ** 3/4
_October 28, 1982_

*Steel Cage Loser Leaves Town Coal Miner's Glove Tuxedo Match*
Ted Dibiase vs. Hacksaw Jim Duggan - *** 1/4
_March 22, 1985_

*Mid-South Tag Team Championship
*Ted Dibiase & Matt Borne (c) vs. Andre The Giant & Tony Atlas - ** 1/2
_February 10, 1983

_*Mid-South Tag Team Championship*
Magnum T.A. & Mr. Wrestling II (c) vs. The Midnight Express - *** 1/2
_January 27, 1984_

*North American Heavyweight Championship
*Mr. Wrestling II (c) vs. Magnum T.A. - N/R (clipped)
_May 17, 1984_


- Before I get to the matches let me get to what was actually my favorite part of this entire disc, which were the two segments they featured. One was Tony Atlas benching 500 and then 550 lbs (fuckin awesome and completely legit) and the other was a training segment between Mr. Wrestling II and Magnum TA. Jim Ross and a bag of potatoes or seed or some shit were also involved. Really fun, nostalgic stuff. Now onto the matches. Dibiase/Orndorff was average with an incredibly weird, drawn out time limit finish. The Andre 6 man was just a bunch of random shit thrown in for rarity and star power.

- The first Tag Title match of the disc was a good one with JYD & Olympia. The first half is all over the place action but they settle back into the Southern formula when they come back from commercial break. Really cool to see some Matt Borne when he's not dressed like a clown, guy was such a talent. Good FIP segment with Olympia and a really hot finishing stretch highlighted by one of their more well known angles when Duggan was dressed up as a gorilla. If only they hadn't shown that 3 or 4 times before the match came up on the set...

- So hear me out on Dibiase/Duggan. I know people consider it to be one of the all time best in Mid South history, but I just don't think it's aged well with time. In '85 it was probably crazy as shit but in reality all it is is Dibiase hammering away at Duggan for about 10 minutes, then he makes a comeback and hits him with the glove for the win. Sure the heat was there, both guys did well in their roles, and it a was a bloody brawl but it's really not very long for a blowoff match and I was a tad bit disappointed by it. Still good nonetheless though.

- Another fun tag match with Dibiase & Borne, this time against much larger opponents in Andre & Atlas. Andre tossing the heels around like they weighed 80 lbs each was awesome. Hugely unseen spectable postmatch as Andre blades to a 2x4 shot AND (let it be known) Kamala body slams the big man loooong before Hogan did, and with ease too. Great bumping from the rat pack, btw.

- Magnum & Mr. Wrestling against the Midnights was so glorious, I wanted like 10 more minutes of it. Such a simple match but such a joy in the same. Southern style to the fullest. The faces are in control for the first several minutes and make the heels look like clowns, then the heels cheat to gain the advantage and never look back. FIP segment with T.A. was so much fun. Cornette would distract Wrestling II to get him away from the corner and the Midnights would purposely let Magnum get to the corner so he could tag the partner that wasn't there. :lol Eventually Wrestling II gets fed up with it and completely walks out on T.A. and causes them to lose the belts. Great match that I really wish could've went longer.​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Instead of watching Hogan matches, I watched a ton of Savage promos insulting him. Plus some matches off the Pillman set. Anything to see the classic vs Liger from SuperBrawl. Forever bossy.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent choice, Paramore fan. Classic is an understatement for Liger/Pillman.

Mayweather/Canelo: ***1/2*

A clinic from Mayweather, but very boring.

Haim - Days Are Gone: *****

Kinda dragged a bit, but solid output from one of the best female pop groups ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Digging the Thundercage match from SuperBrawl '94 too. Been wanting to rewatch it. Felt the same about it, but gosh, it could have been even better with more time. I normally don't gripe much about that, but really it was so good and left you wanting more. Still managed to have two FIP segments + two hot tags all in the 14 minute span. Austin bumps like a nut here and there during it too. WCW 1994 - the forgotten year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

1994 had that spectacular Spring Stampede PPV. It also had one of Vader's most underrated feuds of his career in his feud with Bossman. We also got the reemergence of Sting/Vader and Flair/Steamboat. What could go wrong?

:hogan


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LEAVE HOGAN ALONE.

Slander him when he went Hollywood. From the in-ring perspective. As a personality, he was GRAND.

Paul Roma & The Butcher were the black marks on 1994; not Hogan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT STARRCADE MAIN EVENT.

Fall Brawl 94 is an underrated PPV. People remember it for the three best talents in WCW leaving, but most of the matches were good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who's the third? Foley & Steamboat is all I got. Lord knows I'm probably missing someone really obvious.

Too bad the US Championship scene on that show was a farce. Awesome Duggan won, but I mean...yeah.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Night Of Champions 2011

Air Boom/Awesome Truth - ***1/2
DiBiase/Rhodes - ***
Ziggler/Swagger/Riley/Morrison - ***
Orton/Henry - ***1/2
Phoenix/Kelly - **3/4
Cena/Del Rio - *3/4
Punk/Trips - ***3/4

Really decent card overall. Nothing really wows you but at the same time it's fun.

- Cena/Del Rio bored me to death. My least favorite match of their's. Love the Vengeance LMS though.

- Phoenix/Kelly shocked me. Actually a solid match with an awesome crowd.

- Henry/Orton was fun but I didn't like it AS much this time. I think I was caught up with being so pumped that Henry won when I first saw it.

- Tag title match was actually really good. Bourne is so damn good. Ending was a little blah, but it made sense with the angle they wanted.

- Both midcard title matches were good.

- Punk/Trips is incredibly overbooked but not in a way where nothing made sense. Some fairly cool spots in it too. I think that rating is up from my last watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unless if I remember incorrectly (which I am), Terry Funk left soon after.

EDIT: Yup, I remembered incorrectly. He made a special appearance at Halloween Havoc.

EDIT #2: Ok maybe I'm not wrong. Regal didn't return for another year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Regal took time off before the Blue Bloods were formed? Hmm. Thought I would remember that.

Brye, we differ a ton on the opener & main event on NOC, haha. I liked everything else. Cena vs Del Rio was easily their flattest match, despite me still liking it at the end of the day. Torn between what I liked the most: Rhodes vs Dibiase or Henry's performance. Still not sure. It's close. Intercontinental Championship match was REALLY good imo.

Not a fan of Orton in 2011 yet by proxy I liked his match more than what Punker & Bourne did and those guys are excellent. The irony is they were good in their matches too, but brought down by everyone _(or everything)_ else. Stupid Awesome Truth ruining everything on that night for me. Blast.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Wait...where the hell is Evan Bourne? Wasn't he wrestling dark matches a while back? Like maybe a year ago? :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still is iirc. Idk. I think he worked WM axxess with the other MIA talents like Hunico & Ezekial Jackson. But who cares about them, they suck. Bourne WWE. God dammit he is hardly the only guy to violate policy. R-Truth got suspended at the same time and he returned as a babyface who owned Miz and got a championship shortly after.

ugh @ who this company picks and chooses to make examples of & give the exceptions to.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did I just read the Hayley/Gaga/Lauren fan say Big Zeke sucks? I agree. :side:

But you said Hunico sucks too, so fuck you anyways  (Seriously, Hunico is beyond underrated)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He had one good match vs Justin Gabriel. Was shit all over the world and especially that year he was in Chikara. Fuck that hack. He's better than Sin Cara, but that's not much of a compliment.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Checking out Best of RAW and SD on Netflix while eating pizza (cheat day ). 

I haven't seen much of Hunico other than his feud with Sin Cara, which was just...yikes.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> It sucks, but we ALL knew it was going to happen. No sense in complaining still. This is the way the company works.
> 
> I had no problems b/c the company had nothing else for Dolph & were clearly waiting for MITB to finally give him something. So if in the meantime he'll stick with Swagger, so be it. Besides, this company always has him going up and down that I was used to it. Being used in some capacity was the silver lining. Even being at Extreme Rules sufficed b/c they had faith in him to be a good established name to make Clay's win feel like it was worth a damn. Two months later Dolph was way ahead of the guy. And still is. *I choose to look at the wins and not the losses.*


I try to do, that's why I was :mark: hard when he went over Orton at Survivor Series and Cena at the next PPV TLC. But being a Ziggler mark is tough, the guy loses 90% time and has constant stop start pushes like you mentioned. The amount of losses he takes is annoying, and especially now where he's supposedly in the dog house and hasn't won a match since like Summerslam and has been losing to the likes of Cesaro on Superstars and Bray Wyatt. 



Oliver-94 said:


> It still felt like they were trying to push Swagger instead of Ziggler at that time. Swagger won the US title, was protected (Clay beat him via count out) and Ziggler was taking most of the pinfalls in the tag team match.


Nah, Swagger won the US Title off Ryder just because they wanted to take the title off Ryder and utterly bury him for some reason, then Swagger proceeded to do absolutely nothing with the belt (when you think he would at least do something with the belt, given his All American gimmick) and almost instantly lost it to Santino, and he jobbed multiple times to Santino, and Santino went on to arguably have the worst US Title reign in history. 

With the state of the midcard titles these days you're not getting a push just because you win one, just take this Night of Champions PPV for example and look how all all three midcard titles are utterly irrelevant because of The Shield's involvement in the corpration storyline and Axel's storyline with Heyman and Punk.

The only time Swagger has been pushed in the last few years is when he challenged Del Rio for the World Title at Mania after he won that chamber match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Which one: 2011 or 2012? I might run through the 2011 run and do a review on it like I did 2012. If the mood strikes. Love the advantage of netflix there.

HIAC match is one of my favorites in 2011 b/c I knew it officially meant Sin Cara was a flop. lets have him feud with an evil version of himself & have the hero not able to communicate with the fans. You know on paper is sounds excellent b/c it's straight up out of a comic book, but ohhhhhh how was it a turd. Awesome!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> He had one good match vs Justin Gabriel. Was shit all over the world and especially that year he was in Chikara. Fuck that hack. He's better than Sin Cara, but that's not much of a compliment.


What about the matches he had w/Tyson Kidd? :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia said:


> I try to do, that's why I was :mark: hard when he went over Orton at Survivor Series and Cena at the next PPV TLC. But being a Ziggler mark is tough, the guy loses 90% time and has constant stop start pushes like you mentioned. The amount of losses he takes is annoying, and especially now where he's supposedly in the dog house and hasn't won a match since like Summerslam and has been losing to the likes of Cesaro on Superstars and Bray Wyatt.


I knew the reality faded once he jobbed to Cena _(yes, job is the proper term b/c the booking was AWFUL)_ two weeks in a row to start the year. Only glimmer I had was until he finally got to cash it in per usual. The "dog house" stuff atm is one I'm still not sure if legit or purely storyline. b/c while he's losing, he's getting much more exposure than others and still in the thick of it. Hell, he feels more intertwined with the company wide program than Del Rio does with his own World Championship "program". So, I'm not quite sure what to make of it just yet. At least he won at SummerSlam. I'm serious. I pegged him to get handed the L there for Langston, insead he owned the chump. Made my night. Losing to Cesaro on Superstars. Yeah. That's when you kind of have to ask if it's real. That booking threw me for a loop, but hardly angered me being a big Cesaro guy too. Good for him, not so good for Dolph. Guess being on PPV tomorrow means it didn't matter much, eh?



ATF said:


> What about the matches he had w/Tyson Kidd? :side:


Think I thought one was solid. Follow WM 28 iirc. Around there. K, +2. He's moving up in the world...:hayley1


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Two's better than one :evil:

God, I hope NOC isn't the bummer it looks and goes on the line of other good NOC shows (08, 10 and 12).


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Hunico discussion made me decide to watch a Sin Cara botch compilation on YouTube. How is this guy still somewhat over when he doesn't even win anymore? :lol

This DVD on Netflix is reminding me how bad that Kane/Ryder/Cena/Eve thing was. fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's not even really over these days. He has some of the hispanic community backing him, but that's such a dumb reason to cheer someone. Also, kiddies dig him for his look. He's nothing now and the company knows it.

NOC '08 isn't too special outside of about one standout match and a few I personally dug. But I like 2010 - 2012. Drawbacks from each aren't high and what's good is really good. If only Dolph vs Orton didn't suck last year that show would be REALLY good.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

HayleySabin said:


> I knew the reality faded once he jobbed to Cena _(yes, job is the proper term b/c the booking was AWFUL)_ two weeks in a row to start the year. Only glimmer I had was until he finally got to cash it in per usual.


Even though he got destroyed by Cena, (especially that one match where he kicked out of two of Ziggler's finishers and Big E's finisher and came back and hit Ziggler with one AA for the win fpalm) he was losing to the number one guy who was in a ''redemption'' storyline to get his win back against The Rock, so I wasn't too bothered with those matches. Ziggler only won at TLC thanks to AJ, and I never expected he would get another win over Cena but they could of booked the matches a lot better to not make Ziggler look so bad. 

I thought there was hope when he cashed-in, maybe finally they would book him a little better, but then that concussion killed his titled reign. I'm pissed we didn't get to see Ziggler/Swagger/Del Rio ladder match at Extreme Rules that was supposed to happen, I think Ziggler would of retained then and probably lost to Del Rio at the next PPV like he did, but if that happened, at least he would done something in his title run and had one title defense, oh well..



HayleySabin said:


> The "dog house" stuff atm is one I'm still not sure if legit or purely storyline. b/c while he's losing, he's getting much more exposure than others and still in the thick of it. Hell, he feels more intertwined with the company wide program than Del Rio does with his own World Championship "program". So, I'm not quite sure what to make of it just yet. At least he won at SummerSlam. I'm serious. I pegged him to get handed the L there for Langston, insead he owned the chump. Made my night. Losing to Cesaro on Superstars. Yeah. That's when you kind of have to ask if it's real. That booking threw me for a loop, but hardly angered me being a big Cesaro guy too. Good for him, not so good for Dolph. Guess being on PPV tomorrow means it didn't matter much, eh?


I wasn't sure at first, but I think it's legit now. He's been speaking out on the likes of Cena and Orton, they're top guys, and apparently he's been doing it for a while but maybe now it's finally biting him in the ass.

Ziggler has a minor, and I stress minor role in the corporation storyline, as a face, he's still behind Bryan obviously and Big Show, and when Cody Rhodes returns he'll be a bigger face then Ziggler in the storyline too. So Ziggler's the #4 face in this storyline, which isn't anything special.

:lol That's funny about Del Rio. The guy is so irrelevant as the World Champ and no one cares, but he's still treated far better than Ziggler. 

Ziggler's on the PPV card? I thought they took his match with Ambrose off?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

They took Ambrose/Ziggler off the website so they could announce it on SD. Not sure why they didn't just hype it up, but whatever.

The Bryan vs. Punk Champion vs. Champion match was a pretty good TV match. I marked when they announced this match, but I also marked when they were the first 2 entrants in the 2011 Rumble, when they had a WWE title feud (even though it sucked), and when they faced off during the MITB this year. If they get a Mania match, I'll probably cream myself.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> NOC '08 isn't too special outside of about one standout match and a few I personally dug. But I like 2010 - 2012. Drawbacks from each aren't high and what's good is really good. If only Dolph vs Orton didn't suck last year that show would be REALLY good.


I've heard that you disliked Hunter/Cena from '08, but it had quite superior 'workrate' for a lack of better terms than 'Mania 22. 

You thought Dolph/Randy sucked? I recall being good but I haven't seen it in a million years, how was it again?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Regal took time off before the Blue Bloods were formed? Hmm. Thought I would remember that.
> 
> Brye, we differ a ton on the opener & main event on NOC, haha. I liked everything else. Cena vs Del Rio was easily their flattest match, despite me still liking it at the end of the day. Torn between what I liked the most: Rhodes vs Dibiase or Henry's performance. Still not sure. It's close. Intercontinental Championship match was REALLY good imo.
> 
> Not a fan of Orton in 2011 yet by proxy I liked his match more than what Punker & Bourne did and those guys are excellent. The irony is they were good in their matches too, but brought down by everyone _(or everything)_ else. Stupid Awesome Truth ruining everything on that night for me. Blast.


Glad to see DiBiase/Rhodes get some love. I really wish that feud could have gone longer. Still love seeing Henry win the belt. His promo after is awesome.

My thoughts on Big Zeke:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> They took Ambrose/Ziggler off the website so they could announce it on SD. Not sure why they didn't just hype it up, but whatever.


Well it's good to have Ziggler on the card at least. Kind of want to see this match, against Ziggler it has a good chance of being Ambrose's best singles match to date.



Brye said:


> Glad to see DiBiase/Rhodes get some love. I really wish that feud could have gone longer. Still love seeing Henry win the belt. His promo after is awesome.


Agreed on both things. DiBiase's face turn in the storyline was good, and I would of liked to seen them feud for longer. When DiBiase's started the ''DiBiase Posse'' gimmick not shortly after, it never really went anywhere, and then he got injured for a LONG time and now he's not even in the company anymore, kinda sad, I always liked Ted. So the last real relevant thing he did was his match with Cody Rhodes at Night of Champions 2011.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I've heard that you disliked Hunter/Cena from '08, but it had quite superior 'workrate' for a lack of better terms than 'Mania 22.
> 
> You thought Dolph/Randy sucked? I recall being good but I haven't seen it in a million years, how was it again?


Yeah, it was. Still didn't click for me. I should find my review on it again, b/c the wording was right, but there's something about I don't like in the slightest.

Oh goodness it's dreadful. It starts off semi-hot with the workrate on both sides being all upped and whatnot. Then out of nowhere the pacing dies and it becomes not so much "resthold city" as much as they felt like they had no idea what to do next. So the match just hit a wall. Then they do some more moves before Orton hits a great looking one man flapjack into the RKO. Great looking finish, but the match is so poor. Never want to watch again style.



Brye said:


> Glad to see DiBiase/Rhodes get some love. I really wish that feud could have gone longer. Still love seeing Henry win the belt. His promo after is awesome.
> 
> My thoughts on Big Zeke:


It was so throwaway it was questionable to have the program in the first place. Ted got such a raw deal there.

:lmao - oh those PTP's.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh goodness it's dreadful. It starts off semi-hot with the workrate on both sides being all upped and whatnot. Then out of nowhere the pacing dies and it becomes not so much "resthold city" as much as they felt like they had no idea what to do next. So the match just hit a wall. Then they do some more moves before Orton hits a great looking one man flapjack into the RKO. Great looking finish, but the match is so poor. Never want to watch again style.


I have to watch that and the Champion vs. Champion match to further compare tbh, but there are some of those "starts fast, gets slower, gets fast again" matches I enjoy, like my personal favourite match ever, Benoit/Regal NM '06.

Btw, I rewatched them and here's how I'd rank the Dolph/ADR stuff:
Payback > Smackdown > MITB > Main Event > Raw > Triple Threat w/Sheamus > MITB cash-in >>> Contract-on-a-pole.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Was planning to watch a few NOC matches today but I have to go to a stupid lunch/dinner so there goes those plans. Still might pop in a match or two when I get home. I'm not watching the PPV tonight. Saving my money for Battleground. But I'll definitely be dloading and watching tomorrow. Quite looking forward to Orton/Bryan but that's about it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Regal vs Benoit, that was not. 

Assuming the Smackdown bout as the first match they had this year and the RAW one is following MITB? In regards to the Ziggler vs Del Rio matches. Main Event was overrated for my tastes as I found it to be solid and nothing more. Liked all of their other singles matches more. Well, not the first one from RAW. That one was a bit dull. The rest is quality.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Benoit/Regal, that was. The very moment after I believe the apron DDT it got quite slower and the crowd was beyond quiet. But it's a different style than any match w/Ziggler, so yeah.

Exactly. Main Event was to me very reminescent of the Eddie/Rey matches for some reason. MITB was the overrated one imo (even though I still loved it) - so many have given it ****+ ratings, Top 10 of 2013 entries, some have claimed it was by far Dolph's best match ever. I gave it only ***3/4, since despite AJ & HER ASS, the ending really sucked.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Right, MITB 2013 matches I wanna watch is my agenda for today. I DID watch both MITB ladder matches when it happened, but I didn't write about any of them. In fact, this appears to be all I wrote about the show:

"Mommy, why did Randy Orton win MITB?"

:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their MITB match would be "close" to four stars, if that makes sense. idk. I'm big on it and can't see how it's overrated considering I concur with the lot who put it over. Haven't seen any over the top thoughts on it, but it's rather great. Poor finish and all. It's more of a "oh c'mon on" finish than anything which drastically killed the good both lads provided.

:lmao

Cal strikes again.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> I have to watch that and the Champion vs. Champion match to further compare tbh, but there are some of those "starts fast, gets slower, gets fast again" matches I enjoy, like my personal favourite match ever, Benoit/Regal NM '06.


I assume your referring to this Champion vs Champion match:











^ Also this Orton/Ziggler match I remember fondly just for DAT Ziggler win and the headstand show off celebration afterwards. :lol

Ziggler as the US Champion beat Randy Orton, you don't see midcard champions beating top guys in 2013, the last time the US Title meant something was when it was around Dolph Ziggler's waist.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes that one, which I just rewatched 2 mins ago  Still holds up, around ***1/2 level.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Orton/Ziggler have some good TV matches together.

In late 2011 when Ziggler was getting wins over Orton and Punk (right at the end of the year) - that was the reason that made me sign up to the forum in December 2011, because my favorite wrestler was getting these wins over established guys, I was loving it, and I wanted to discuss it with people.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fandango Vs Dean Ambrose Vs Jack Swagger Vs Antonio Cesaro Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Damien Sandow Vs Wade Barrett

How LAZY is the MITB set? MITB is all about ladder matches... so let's throw ladders everywhere! DONE. Lazy fucking twats. Bet the set designers get paid a fortune for that shit too. And here I am jobless. Cunts.

:lmao at Lawler I think it was, in response to Sandow saying after tonight Philly won't be known for a famous fictional character like Rocky - "what does he mean fictional?". I think someone needs to explain to King the different between real life and movies. Then again he's in wrestling so he might not get it either way .

Cesaro just standing around holding Cody in a side suplex position is badass. Then he finally performs the move on a ladder. Awesome. Then the awesomeness dies when he and Swagger run into each other with ladders and do it so cautiously they kill the entire spot :lmao.

:lmao at Barrett. He's swinging the ladder around smashing people with it, until Fandango kicks it in his face to set up a legdrop. So Barrett falls over with the ladder... but the ladder isn't in the right position so Barrett has to actually TURN THE LADDER AROUND on top of him so it's right :lmao. Well done Barrett, continuing to prove me right. YOU FUCKING SUCK.

Best thing from Barrett in this is when Swagger pulls him from the ladder right into a fucking UPPERCUT OF DOOM from Cesaro.

MUSCLE BUSTER ON A LADDER.

Man, can't believe I actually wanted Ambrose to win this. Can't really see Dean as a World Champion any time soon. Stick to tags for now dude. Maybe work out some more too. Guy could barely lift himself up for that "skinning the cat" ladder spot. Pfft, I bet I could do that easy :side:. Mr Ohno is "in the dog house" because he didn't take getting told to get in shape seriously. WHAT ABOUT DEAN? 

Wonder if Ohno will ever make it to the main roster. And where is Steamboat? Haven't heard bugger all from him for a while. He injured?

"TALK ABOUT INNOVATION!!!" That was Michael Cole when Ambrose did the windmill ladder spot. Uhhh... don't think you can call something that's been done in pretty much EVERY multiman ladder match ever "innovation" you dumb fuck. And even worse we are stick with this dumb fuck for all time now that JR has been forced to retire. Fuck Vince. Hated JR for 20 years, treated him like shit, and now basically forced him out. Michael Cole should go back to covering wars. He might get shot or something.

Cody gets a nice babyface pop as he hits a few Cross Rhodes on peoples. Then wastes like 5 minutes wandering outside to get a ladder and setting it up. CODY IS BLEEDING! BLOOOOD! IN PG!!! BLOOOOOOD!

THE SHIELD! Can Reigns win it anyway? CLIMB REIGNS CLIMB! Bah. At least he spears that useless twat Fandanstillnotgoingaway.

THE USOS. Nice of them to ruin shit. Cesaro and Swagger go after THE SHIELD too! Oh man, GIVE US THAT TAG MATCH. Except they haven't yet, and this took place months ago. Bah.

Sandow wins. Did he like, spent like 90% of the match hiding lol? :lmao at him reaching for the briefcase in front of him when it was behind him. HE SO SMRT.

Fuck I hated how they kept making Sandow out to be a cunt for winning A NO DQ EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES LADDER MATCH by throwing someone else off the ladder. Urgh. Took them about 3 weeks to finally have Cody say he wasn't pissed that Sandow won the match over him but because he was just sick of Sandow in general. But by then Cody was already the clear cut heel of the situation for me. Why do WWE keep doing this? They are doing it right now with AJ. She's CLEARLY the fucking babyface (perhaps poor phrasing for those who think she looks 12... which is kinda odd because I don't see it myself. Then again I don't pay attention to 12 year olds you fucking pedos. Hai Cody  ) but they treat her like she's the most evil fucking bitch going. She's in WWE and she LOVES WRESTLING AND HAS DONE SINCE SHE WAS A KID AND SHE IS PASSIONATE ABOUT THE BUSINESS AND WINNING THE DIVAS TITLE WAS ACTUALLY IMPORTANT TO HER... and she gets mocked relentlessly on commentary. Oh and the reality show diva bitches who, aside from Natalya, can't wrestle for SHIT and are just attention seeking WHORES, are somehow the squeaky clean babyfaces in the whole thing. FUCK YOU WWE.

So the ladder match was fun mostly. Some dumbarse spots, but mostly entertaining. ***1/4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nostalgia said:


> Orton/Ziggler have some good TV matches together.
> 
> In late 2011 when Ziggler was getting wins over Orton and Punk (right at the end of the year) - that was the reason that made me sign up to the forum in December 2011, because my favorite wrestler was getting these wins over established guys, I was loving it, and I wanted to discuss it with people.


Didn't Ziggler beat Punk in a Gauntlet or something like that?

Btw, Punk/Ziggler 11/11/11 was 11 times better than the Rumble (which was good but a big dissapointment). That was the TV MOTY of 2011 at ****1/4 imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AJ Vs Kaitlyn

Yey :mark:. Big rant on AJ being awesome and WWE being cunts to her, and now an AJ match :mark:. She'd better not drop the belt to some total diva slut tonight at NOC.

:lmao at the sign "I came for Kaitlyn". Guess I should make a "I came for AJ" sign now, right? 

So AJ is all flexible and shit. 

JBL is like, defending AJ and talking her up. WHY U NO DU THAT NOW U TWAT?

AJ works the arm of Kaitlyn which is injured, which is fine and all. Then Kaitlyn comes back and uses her POWAH and damn at AJ taking more awesome bumps, this time from a shoulder block.

SPEAR. She hurts herself though. AJ takes advantage. She can take advantage of me any time. BLACK WIDOW. AJ got this one .

Solid stuff, not as good as their PB match but still enjoyable. AJ rules. **1/2 or so.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/orton have some good tv matches , the 8/11 raw match is very good, irrc they have a decen one the night after rumble 12, same night as Bryan/punk raw I.

As for the ziggler/ADR series- Id have it in this order :
PB
MITB
ME
SD
RAW

@ Nostalgia, lol you gotta hang in there man I know how you feel, but it's a testament to him that, he still gets a good pop out of the crowd still. I'd argue ziggler was on fire towards the end of 2011, they let him cut promo with Vickie instead of him just standing there, he had great matches, and he was getting good heat for himself instead of Vickie.The program with Punk I thought was good for him although he was afterthought, because it showed the company had faith in him to have him even close to the belt, but it's gone down hill 

@ATF he beat punk twice on raw during that feud


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

ATF said:


> Didn't Ziggler beat Punk in a Gauntlet or something like that?
> 
> Btw, Punk/Ziggler 11/11/11 was 11 times better than the Rumble (which was good but a big dissapointment). That was the TV MOTY of 2011 at ****1/4 imo.


Ziggler got a few wins over Punk during the time Punk was feuding over Laurinaitis, which lead to the Ziggler/Punk match at Royal Rumble 2012. They've definitely had TV matches better than their Rumble match, their Rumble match actually underwhelmed me to due being too short and John Laurinaitis's constant presence. 

My favorite ending to a Punk/Ziggler match was this:






Just for the win over Punk in his home town of Chicago and celebrating with the WWE Title belt, even though he didn't win it. Was a mark out moment for me. 



redskins25 said:


> @ Nostalgia, lol you gotta hang in there man I know how you feel, but it's a testament to him that, he still gets a good pop out of the crowd still. I'd argue ziggler was on fire towards the end of 2011, they let him cut promo with Vickie instead of him just standing there, he had great matches, and he was getting good heat for himself instead of Vickie.The program with Punk I thought was good for him although he was afterthought, because it showed the company had faith in him to have him even close to the belt, but it's gone down hill


I agree he was on fire in late 2011, great US Title run, wins over Orton and Punk, good matches on a weekly basis and it was a time where many people started to notice Ziggler.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Haha when he got the old 70s Afro after matches, yea I remember that marked as well, I thought it was surreal that he was actually gonna be wwe champ


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just got the first Wrestlemania anthology( I-V), the CM punk DVD, and the Daniel Bryan match set from 2011-2012. Putting on WM I now, I know its probably not great Wrestling wise but Im sure its fun.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Haha when he got the old 70s Afro after matches, yea I remember that marked as well, I thought it was surreal that he was actually gonna be wwe champ


Haha yea I was wondering if anyone else was getting flashbacks to early 1990s Hennig when Zigglers hair would do that. 

Love that Trips/Batista HiaC match you were talking about a few pages ago, it's probably my favorite non-Foley Trips singles match, just absolutely brutal and so effing intense. That match had great cage match psychology, you really got the feeling that two monsters were trapped in there with no other solution but to throw bombs and try to survive.

After seeing some people say they prefer Bryan/Punk MitB over OTL I def need to watch that again. OTL was my singles MotY, even over Brock/Cena. Such a classy match, it makes me wonder what they would be able to do if WWE allowed them to main event Mania30.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ziggler's US Title run was fun, yeah. Ziggler/Ryder from TLC was legit ***3/4 stuff, Ryder's best match ever *by far*.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Ziggler's US Title run was fun, yeah. Ziggler/Ryder from TLC was legit ***3/4 stuff, Ryder's best match ever *by far*.


That's undoubtedly true, I also thoroughly enjoyed his Falls Count Anywhere squash against Kane from Raw. Kane carried the hell out of that one, it was a more a great Kane performance than anything.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/Morrison from Survivor Series was fun too. LOL at that crowd. Poor Morrison.

Now Cesaro/Ryder from last year's NOC. That's a Ryder match that needs more recognition.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Haha yea I was wondering if anyone else was getting flashbacks to early 1990s Hennig when Zigglers hair would do that.
> 
> Love that Trips/Batista HiaC match you were talking about a few pages ago, it's probably my favorite non-Foley Trips singles match, just absolutely brutal and so effing intense. That match had great cage match psychology, you really got the feeling that two monsters were trapped in there with no other solution but to throw bombs and try to survive.
> 
> After seeing some people say they prefer Bryan/Punk MitB over OTL I def need to watch that again. OTL was my singles MotY, even over Brock/Cena. Such a classy match, it makes me wonder what they would be able to do if WWE allowed them to main event Mania30.


Yea haha, I think his hair was much shorter back then, that's why

Yea, I again try and watch it again today, I liked it alot, its jsut VERY LONG (HIAC) and I most of the times have ADD watching matches.

@ Punk/Bryan, I think me and Cody are the ones who think mitb>otl, Well I can say I have to rewatch mitb, because I watched otl again a couple weeks ago and my mind was blown onn how good it was



ATF said:


> Ziggler's US Title run was fun, yeah. Ziggler/Ryder from TLC was legit ***3/4 stuff, Ryder's best match ever *by far*.


Yea, his US run was very fun, last time it was semi-important, I liked his feud with Ryder and those promo on Ryder's show were GOLD


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cesaro/Ryder was good but mostly just a show-off match for Tony tbh.

In all honesty, has Tony ever had a bad singles match in WWE? The R-Truth matches were boring but not BAD, and then nothing else comes to mind.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM I is actually pretty fun, its a necessity to your collection IMO because of the history thats there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watched SD. Ambrose/Ziggler was fun, we'll at least have two good matches tonight with Orton/Bryan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Usos were pretty damn awesome in the 6-Man-Tag on SD, much to Paramore fan's chagrin.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Reigns' uppercut to Dolph was the highlight of the 6-Man Tag imo.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Wrestlemania I review​*
*Got the first 5 manias for my birthday- let’s go!​*
*Match # 1: Tito Santana vs the Executioner- singles match*

This match has the honor of being the first match in WM history. I actually found this match entertaining despite some saying it was gonna suck. For the 6 minutes it got I was having fun. Who the hell is the executioner? I have no idea but he plays a good comedic heel and sure as hell help put Santana over a little bit. ** ½*

*Match # 2: S.D. Jones vs Kong Bundy
*
Well, I don’t know who S.D. Jones is but he sure was a jobber tonight, this ended in 9 seconds :lol- DUD

*Match # 3: Matt Bourne vs Ricky Steamboat- singles match*

Please don’t let this be a squash because that would be a waste of Steamboat . It was a semi-squash IMO. Bourne did get some offense and it was not too short like the last match. Still could have been a little longer and a little better wrestled, but Steamboat would have a classic 2 years later. * ½*

*Match # 4: David Sammartino vs Brutas Beefcake- singles match*

One of the GOAT from the 50’s-70’s is in his son’s corner. I’m not expecting much from this match after all because aside from the ME I probably wont expect anything to be over **. This was BAD, the King Kong Bundy squash was better. It looks like David Sammartino has Curtis Axel syndrome as he is nothing like his father. I was bored throughout the match and of course this was the longest match so far, so screw this. It only gets the rating it does because of Bruno’s AWESOME interference. *

*Match # 5: Greg Valentine(c) vs the Junkyard Dog- singles match for the IC title
*
This is great considering the mid south set and Junkyard dog is such a big part of it. I just hope this isn’t a squash as I hope its good. This was a fun match and got a good amount of time compared to some other matches. Junkyad Dog was MAD over with the MSG crowd. But for some reason Junkyard dog is excited about winning by countout despite not winning the title :lol. ** 3/4* 

*Match # 6: Nikoli Volkoff and the Iron Sheik vs Barry Windham and Mike Rotundo(c)- tag match for the tag titles
*
God Volkoff and Sheik were awesome heels, from Sheik waving his countries flag to Volkoff singing the Soviet national anthem. On the opposite Windham and Rotundo were MAD over. Another fun match, these two teams have really decent chemistry and one team plays a great heel team while one plays a great face team. I think its MOTN so far, fun stuff. ***


*Match # 7: Big John Studd vs Andre the Giant- body slam match *

Well, this is an Andre the Giant match so I doubt it could be too bad of a match. WRONG, this was just as bad as The Sammartino match, okay not that bad but this didn’t have Bruno there to say the day. pretty boring match with a terrible stipulation. ½* 
*skipped the womens match

*Match# 8: Hulk Hogan and Mr T vs Roddy Piper and Paul Orndoff- tag match*

Billy Martin, Muhammed Ali, and Liberace are all out here for the ME, and this is where you can tell the ME of Mania is a HUGE thing. Pipers entrance is awesome with all the bagpipe players and it sets an awesome mood. Hogan and Mr T are out to a huge pop and the WWF title looks so tiny for some reason :lol. This was a FUN match, even though it wasn’t the best wrestled match, it felt like big deal for some reason, even though it was a non-title tag match. Mr T is actually not that bad of a wrestler. I had fun with this match, some probably disagree. *** ¼* 

I recommend this DVD to your collection because of the history that’s there and to see how the show has evolved over the last 30 years. The wrestling isn’t that great. But it’s a fun way to spend 2 hours.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania 1 - 4.5

Tito Santana Vs The Executioner - * - 0
S.D. Jones Vs King Kong Bundy - DUD - 0
Matt Bourne Vs Ricky Steamboat - ** - 0.5
David Sammartino Vs Brutus Beefcake - *** - 2
Greg Valentine Vs Junkyard Dog - *1/2 - 0.5
Barry Windham & Mike Rotundo Vs Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff - ** - 0.5
Big John Studd Vs Andre The Giant - DUD - 0
Leilani Kai Vs Wendi Richter - *1/2 - 0.5
Hulk Hogan & Mr T Vs Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff - ** - 0.5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Back to MITB:

Dolph Ziggler Vs Alberto Del Rio

Dolph has recovered from the concussion and is now the babyface. Wonder how this match is gonna go.

ELBOWS OF DEATH. Except unlike Lawler, Del Rio doesn't die from them. 

KICK TO THE HEAD. And no Del Rio can do the same shit he did last time. Which... I guess I'm ok with. It won him the match last time, but that was because Ziggler had the concussion and shit. Eh, give him another one. Guess that's Del Rio's thinking? Whatever.

So is Ziggler trying to be DX all in one? Uses the Fameasser on a regular basis. Superkick used to be regular. He uses an X-Factor off the ropes here. Just a Pumphandle Drop and Pedigree to go!

Speaking of the Fameasser, the counter into a German Suplex was TREMENDOUSLY SEXUAL. The AJ of moves, so to speak.

OMG SPEAKING OF AJ, SHE'S HERE!!! Couldn't have timed that last sentence any better lol. Legit had no idea she was gonna show up. Happy she did :mark:.

Dolph tells her to leave and she looks so sad . Now I'm sad. COME ON DEL RIO KICK THIS TWAT IN THE HEAD ALREADY .

Del Rio becomes a retard and pulls down his knee pad for a superkick, then AJ cracks him in the face with the divas title belt to punish his stupidity. Oh yeah and Dolph gets DQ'd. LOL. 

Can't say I cared for this. Was a lesser version of their PB match in every way. They tried to have the same kinda match, but Dolph wasn't just coming off the concussion like at Payback, and Del Rio was already the champion, so nothing seemed nearly as big, important, or as GOOD as before. Throw in a screwy finish and yeah, that's that. Me no likely much.

CENA VS HENRY next.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cena Vs Henry. YES.

Cena's best match this year besides the RAW affair with Punk. Henry RULES.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> [ Who the hell is the executioner?


Buddy Rose


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Punk vs Bryan MitB for the first time since it aired live.

Before, I said I preferred OTL to MitB by a small margin, and that OTL was my singles MotY for WWE. I still stand by that, however, that already small margin has gotten even smaller. What a bad ass match. MitB definitely had more story telling and drama than OTL, as OTL was a more pure wrestling match than what MitB had. MitB just has some phenomena in ring psychology/story telling. I love the AJ interactions both guys had. I also loved that they got in plenty of pure grappling to go along with the brawling on the outside of the ring and the gimmicks. I love that a super side suplex through a table ended the match, WWE is really making a move to have high impact spots actually mean something. If that move was done in the AE, it never would have ended the match. Hell Manlind did it to Michaels to the outside of the ring and that didn't even finish his match at Mindgames. Seriously though, I really really love what these two did, they have such great chemistry and always manage to add the perfect mix of technical wrestling and compelling story telling in their matches. This is now my second favorite singles contest of 2012, edging out Brock vs Cena. ****1/2 for MitB, ****3/4 for OTL. We are all winners when Punk and Bryan get to mix it up in the ring.


Edit- I see Zep already answered the excutioner question. Buddy Rose was a very good wrestler, loved his team with Doug Summers in the AWA. The Bloodbath at the Showboat against the Rockers should be required viewing for any fan of tag team wrestling.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd only go about ***1/2 for their MITB match. OTL is my MOTY at ****3/4 though. Felt they went about the MITB match all wrong. Yeah I'm no wrestler and I ain't in the business but I honestly felt they should have worked the match different lol. AJ's involvement should have been done way different too. If it was anyone else doing the exact same match it probably wouldn't have been any good, but at least we still had Punk Vs Bryan here. I was disappointed all things considered. Reminds me of Punk/Jericho. They had a fucking awesome straight up wrestling match at WM, then they have a gimmick match afterwards and it doesn't come close to the first match .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I'd only go about ***1/2 for their MITB match. OTL is my MOTY at ****3/4 though. Felt they went about the MITB match all wrong. Yeah I'm no wrestler and I ain't in the business but I honestly felt they should have worked the match different lol. AJ's involvement should have been done way different too. If it was anyone else doing the exact same match it probably wouldn't have been any good, but at least we still had Punk Vs Bryan here. I was disappointed all things considered. Reminds me of Punk/Jericho. They had a fucking awesome straight up wrestling match at WM, then they have a gimmick match afterwards and it doesn't come close to the first match .



It's funny you say that, because I totally agree with you about Punk/Jericho. I LOVE their match at Mania, think its one of the 5 best WWE championship matches in Mania history. I do NOT think that highly of their Chicago street fight. I found it contrived and lacking in physicality and emotion. 

I couldn't disagree more with the Punk/Bryan No DQ being compared to the Chicago Street fight. It WAS hard hitting, compelling, and well paced. Everything Punk/Jericho at ER lacked, I feel Punk/Bryan No DQ delivered on in spades. Just my opinion obviously.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Mark Henry Vs John Cena

HENRY :mark:.

So this Henry guy seems pretty strong. Shoving Cena around, holding him up for a suplex than smashing him down onto the steel steps. All good shit :mark:. Cena just looks helpless.

THAT'S WHAT I DO. Oh man he is fucking murdering Cena. GIANT SWING INTO THE BARRICADE.

:lmao at Cena, Henry grabs his head but before he can start to apply any kind of pressure, or a hold in general, Cena starts screaming in pain and reaching out for the ropes. NOT YET, JOHN. 

Don't like them playing up Cena not being able to hit the AA. We KNOW he can. He's done it to Henry before. He's done it to Big Show. He's done it to Big Show AND Edge at the same time. Fuck off.

Luckily that little story (or main Cena story for the match, but Cena isn't the star here so fuck it) isn't enough to kill the match in any way because HENRY is awesome. Powering Cena around, talking trash and just being a bad motherfucker. Then when Cena DOES hit the AA... HENRY KICKS OUT! :mark:

WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM! WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM! YES! THIS IS IT! 1...2... OH FUCK OFF CENA. Bah. Henry should have won there tbh.

His finisher didn't work, so Henry tries to cheat, but instead he goes into the exposed turnbuckle and the STF is locked in! And Henry gets to the ropes. Yey! LOW BLOW!!!

"OH NO, HE STAYED ALIVE..." :lmao even Lawler sounds disappointed that Cena is STILL BREATHING :lmao.

WSS countered into another STF and... urgh, Henry taps . Shitty finish to an otherwise great match. ***1/2.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Finish plays into the fact that Henry had a legitimate (and noted) ankle injury going in. Meh. Henry <3

EDIT: WHERE THE FUCK IS HE, BTW?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I didn't remember hearing anyone say on commentary during the match that he had an injury, maybe I missed it. Would have been nice if they'd like, played it up a bit in the match. Cena goes after it because he's desperate, Henry shakes it off a little after throwing Cena around. Something. Otherwise it's just pointless.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That's the thing, they didn't play it up, at all. I will fault both the match and the commentators for it, but I can sit fine with the end. A little slip that bit that match's quality (for most) hard in the ass.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

his CM Punk doc is godly. This DVD is awesome


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Any thoughts on Shawn Michaels, Booker T & Kevin Nash vs Chris Jericho, Ric Flair & HHH (Backlash 2003)?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Any thoughts on Shawn Michaels, Booker T & Kevin Nash vs Chris Jericho, Ric Flair & HHH (Backlash 2003)?


Pretty shite tbh.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Any thoughts on Shawn Michaels, Booker T & Kevin Nash vs Chris Jericho, Ric Flair & HHH (Backlash 2003)?


It sucked. Jericho was awesome though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Pretty shite tbh.





Lord Flvcko said:


> It sucked. Jericho was awesome though.


 Shame, forgot about the match, saw the lineup and thought 'Ah cool', guess not lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok the 'skins are shitted on, my boys irl are all give me shit whatvs

Finally finished HHH/Batista HIAC, loved it, so brutaliy and what a HIAC should be, its funny Ive been positive on hunter this past couple of weeks since rewatching rumble vs. foley and this HIAC, I use to actually think his last two mania matches with Taker was his best, this two and on a different level compared to those streak matches


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rewatching the Orton vs Christian series for 2011 to try and avoid getting super nervous about my Giants losing to the Broncos today. I understand people have legit beefs with Ortons character and ring work since his face turn, but I don't know how you can't look at the year Orton had in ring wise in 2011 and not atleast respect the guy. He was in the main event almost every week on Smackdown and he nearly always delivered the goods. Yes his character could be boring at times, but when he was in the ring with a great opponent like Christian, they really tore it up.

For the record, did they ever have any more matches than Smackdown, OTL, MitB, and Summerslam? Those are the only ones I have seen and can think of.

Anywho, on to the ratings:

Smackdown- ***1/2

This was a very solid match, Christian is still full blown face here and had JUST won the WHC in a ladder match. They trade holds and work a Christian style match that just builds layer upon layer until a crazy climax at the end with Christian spring boarding from the corner and Orton catching him with the RKO. Orton wins the title. One of the better matches from Smackdown in 2011.

OTL- ****1/4

Ill be honest, their Summerslam match gets tons of praise, and rightfully so, but I really think I might like this one just as much. Orton really works hard trying keep Christian grounded but Christian keeps countering at all the right times and squirming away. Christian sets Orton up for the spear but Orton counters with his powerslam. Christian kicks out then manages to catch Orton with a spear for real and Orton kicks out again. Finally Christian counters a side suplex, flips backwards, but Orton catches him again with the RKO for the 1-2-3. Fabulous match.

MitB-***3/4

This match has the added stipulation that if Orton gets a DQ he loses the belt. Christian has started his heel turn here by involving lawyers to get the clause added to this match. Lots of great back and forth action, a wonderful crowd, and some really smooth counters all make this match up to snuff with the other matches they had. The counters Orton/Christian have in all their matches are just awesome and really really smooth. Christian wins by spitting in Ortons face causing Orton to lose his shit and kick Christian in the balls right in front of the ref:lmao

Note-Orton really is a fucking SPECIMEN. Good lord, this dude looks like the perfect wrestler from appearances. Too bad appearances aren't everything :lol

Summerslam- ****1/4

This is tied with OTL as the best of the bunch. Great match, Christian takes all the bumps and just a thorough beating in general, but that's okay because now he is a full blown cowardly heel and Ortons supposed to be the bad ass face. I can't decide if this match or Punk/Cena was the MotN. Ill go with this one at gunpoint, lot more fun with some really creative stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Capital Punishment, and I think another SD match (cage, perhaps?).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its another DVD thread vs. the world opinion, we all LOVE otl and think (most) the ss 11 is just a generic brawl, The other sections prefer ss 11. Or I can be speaking about myself only


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

They had the steel cage match after SummerSlam and Capitol Punishment. A few other TV matches too including their very first dating back to 2005 on Raw. That one is worth a watch too.

And Orton has not only the appearance but the in-ring abilities and charisma required to be a top guy. People seem to have beef with his mic work but I think he can get the job done unless he's talking extra... slow.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ah shit I've seen the Cage match too, that's on the same Best of set I dunno why I forgot about that one. Haven't seen Capitol Punishment or the 2005 one, I def need to see that. Well, as soon as the giants game is over ill have to watch those two other matches.

For the record, I don't think their SummerSlam match was a generic brawl at all, I absolutely loved it. OTL is better by a small margin though. 

Orton does have all the necessary tools to be a top guy, I don't think anyone, even an Orton hater, can deny that. I think most people's beef with him is how he seems to coast some times and will cut some incredibly dull promos when he does the slow talk thing. He's no where near as bad as Triple H was in the early 2000 when it comes to boring ass promos though.

Either way, I'm not a big fan of his but I don't hate the guy either. He's part of one of my 5 favorite matches ever (backlash vs foley) but I wouldn't buy a Best of Randy Orton set or anything. I think he does get hated on wayyyy too much though, I'd take Randy Orton as the WHC over ADR in a New York minute. If he delivers vs Bryan I think people will start to ease up a bit, cause this story line is really the best thing going in WWE, and Orton as a credible corporate champ made the whole thing possible. (We all know there is no way in hell Cena would have turned heel and played the Orton role. Even if John wanted to, I don't think he has that heel character within him. Orton undoubtedly does).

Kay enough Orton talk, I wanna have a great match to watch if my Giants end up getting killed like I believe they will be. Anyone got some sneaky good matches that didn't happen at a major PPV in the last 5 years?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I would buy an Orton set, and i'm not a huge Orton fan as well but their could be some great stuff on their

vs Foley
vs Benoit
Vs Benjamin
vs Mysterio NWO 2006
HBK matches in 2007'
vs Cena vs HHH WM 24
vs Christian

I'm probably missing some gems but that there sounds goodd


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always preferred the SS match to their others, but I haven't seen them since they aired so fuck knows any more. Awesome that both their SD matches in 2011 are on the Best of Raw & SD 2011 set :mark:. I like having easy access to that kinda shit. Shame I only own the SS match as far as PPV ones go though .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch Undertaker vs. Festus


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thinking of this current Daniel Bryan vs. Corporation feud, I just noticed one song that mixes PERFECTLY with Bryan atm. To hell with Richard "Legend" Wagner, this is a bigger legend. Cody probably knows this one.

_"They taped over your mouth and scribbled out the truth with their lies, your little spies..."_ :hayley2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RVD Vs Randy Orton Vs Daniel Bryan Vs CM Punk Vs Sheamus Vs Christian

Christian is the "most experienced" ladder match guy in this match. Basically he's a ladder slut but saying he's "more experienced" classes it up. WHORE.

RVD officially returns to WWE in this match. He's popular and shit. So everyone mauls him. LOL. With RVD gone everyone decides to gang up on Sheamus because he's BIG.

Then it comes down to Bryan and Punk :mark:. 

RVD DEBUTED IN SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT IN 1996 HERE IN PHILLY. Urgh, sometimes I REALLY hate the term "sports entertainment".

Why do they have so many ladders at ringside? Seriously? How many do they think they are gonna get through? And why have the "Hornswoggle" ladder there too? Who the fuck is gonna use it to CLIMB? Not even Khali could stand on it and reach the fecking briefcase. And why have the 2 different sized main ladders too? Oh look that's a ladder. And over there is one that's a foot bigger. WHY? 

:lmao at Sheamus punching Christian through one of the gabs in the ladder rungs. OUCH at Sheamus getting knocked off the ladder and just plummeting into the ladder. Fucking RVD, he's back for one match and hurts Sheamus.

Sheamus avoiding the ladder set up across the apron and announce table is pretty sweet. Man I miss Sheamus already . COME BACK SHEAMUS.

Punk swinging the briefcase away while all 6 guys are on ladders trying to get to it is brilliant. 

Oh man SHEAMUS RULES THE PLANET in this match. He goes apeshit on everyone, then tries to set up the ladder only for RVD to interfere... so he smashes the ladder into the side of RVD's head and holy shit I'm 99% certain RVD didn't block it :mark:. That's what you get for hurting the Irishman's leg, you flippy shitty ECW twat. I wish Senzu Beans were real. Sheamus could recover straight away and be on the PPV tonight because he'd have never left and things would be awesome .

Punk taking a bow after taking Sheamus out with a ladder is :mark:. Wonder when we'll get the big Punk Vs Sheamus PPV match. We kinda NEED IT. It's like, one of the few big matches we've yet to have from the current crop of top guys.

Man, lengthy dull period. Yawn. Then BRYAN comes back into the match and wails on everyone like the GOAT he is. FUCK ME at that suicide dive to Punk on the outside. With all the ladders stacked at the barricade that had to be dangerous as fuck to do. SHEAMUS. Takes a great bump through a ladder. Guessing that's it for him in this match. He was definitely the best guy.

Speaking of best guys, someone who isn't at least; Curtis Axel comes down to ruin everything. So Punk gives him a GTS. Suck on that, bitch.

The Heyman/Punk stuff... was obvious as hell. We KNEW it was coming. But I'll be damned if it isn't wonderfully done. Punk bleeds the hardway, and just looks so betrayed .

Speaking of betrayed... Orton wins this fucking thing. Bah. Even being able to look back and see what's happened since doesn't make me feel any less fucked off about it lol. 

Match is about the same as the first one overall, for stars at least. Might prefer this one just for SHEAMUS and the awesome Punk/Heyman angle. ***1/4.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Undertaker vs Festus it is, that's from Smackdown in 08' right? Thanks bro.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I guess I'ts me that thinks otl>>>>>>ss 11 for orton/christian

I'm NOT streaming this ppv tonight, I will wait and hear from you guys on what matches were good and bad. I hate this though provess of building nowadays, every major match, we have seen more than 5x on raw/sd, what the point of ppvs ?


Taker/Featus may be one of the best matches of 08, not even joking


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's actually FAR more common for people to prefer the OTL match over the SS one. If anything, I've seen more people in this thread prefer the SS one than outside of it. Not a surprise because as awesome as the SS match was, the OTL one was even better. And now the WWE is streaming it on Youtube.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, did ya know that the WWE (Triple Haitch especifically) had plenty of HEAT on Sheamus because of his MITB performance? :evil:


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Ah shit I've seen the Cage match too, that's on the same Best of set I dunno why I forgot about that one. Haven't seen Capitol Punishment or the 2005 one, I def need to see that. Well, as soon as the giants game is over ill have to watch those two other matches.


Here's a 2005 Christian/Orton match here in case you wanted to watch it:












redskins25 said:


> I guess I'ts me that thinks otl>>>>>>ss 11 for orton/christian
> 
> I'm NOT streaming this ppv tonight, I will wait and hear from you guys on what matches were good and bad. I hate this though provess of building nowadays, every major match, we have seen more than 5x on raw/sd, what the point of ppvs ?
> 
> ...


I rank both matches about the same, *****1/2*. 

I'll probably stream NOC tonight but I hope my connection can hold up, it's been really poor lately.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ordering NOC because I got it for FREE! 

Its gonna probably suck though :lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Cal, did ya know that the WWE (Triple Haitch especifically) had plenty of HEAT on Sheamus because of his MITB performance? :evil:


Lol wut? They pissed that he did better than everyone else?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Lol wut? They pissed that he did better than everyone else?


Not exactly. They pissed that he allegedly only cared about his own spots and didn't add anything else, unlike everybody else apparently.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Noticed WWE uploaded some of the 'Best World Heavyweight Championship Matches' to their YT Channel:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLqIVmFaHA8BrqiBvIc46R_TXz_Ddqys8Y


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Kane vs. The Undertaker at HIAC and the word best shouldn't ever be associated with each other in any context for the rest of time.

Gonna watch Bryan vs. Sheamus and Christian vs. Orton though


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker and Kane in the cell is one of the best WHC matches ever?

Well then the standards have gotten VERY, VERY low for that title  Jeez, I understand that the ghost of Krispin cannot bother Vince's innocent thoughts by any means but this is just ridiculous.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wish they would just get over it and post Benoit matches too. Their channel is really getting good with all the full length matches but if only they didn't pretend he didn't exist... things would be much better.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I wish they would just get over it and post Benoit matches too. Their channel is really getting good with all the full length matches but if only they didn't pretend he didn't exist... things would be much better.


Agree completely. I can understand them not wanting to promote him and print T-Shirts and DVD box sets and all that, but the lengths they go to pretend the greatest worker of all time did not exist is just beyond absurd. Posting a match with Chris on your YouTube channel is not going to shame the company, neither is including him when you make Best of Raw sets and other compilations. Lets be honest, any Best of Raw set that doesn't include Chris is a complete farce. The guy just owned Raw and Smackdown for 4-5 years. Especially 2003-2004. Those where his peak years in the WWE when he cemented his best worker of all time status. Printing Chris Jericho and Eddie DvD sets and not allowing any Benoit matches is just ridiculous too. And not including the WM20 triple threat on your best WHC matches but putting Taker vs Kane HiaC on there makes them look totally foolish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Agree completely. I can understand them not wanting to promote him and print T-Shirts and DVD box sets and all that, but the lengths they go to pretend the greatest worker of all time did not exist is just beyond absurd. Posting a match with Chris on your YouTube channel is not going to shame the company, neither is including him when you make Best of Raw sets and other compilations. Lets be honest, any Best of Raw set that doesn't include Chris is a complete farce. The guy just owned Raw and Smackdown for 4-5 years. Especially 2003-2004. Those where his peak years in the WWE when he cemented his best worker of all time status. Printing Chris Jericho and Eddie DvD sets and not allowing any Benoit matches is just ridiculous too. And not including the WM20 triple threat on your best WHC matches but putting Taker vs Kane HiaC on there makes them look totally foolish.


True, but at least he seems to be included in the Best of Raw set as there are at least two episodes where he's present.

I might be too optimistic but I think the bullshit will stop by 2020. Nowadays whenever there's any trace of him, they don't face any controversy but rather old fans who are excited about seeing his name/face on their product. I understand them distancing themselves when the shit was hot back in 2007 but now, the media doesn't even remember Benoit.

But indeed, it's ridiculous how they make sure that he's invisible everywhere. For instance, they put up posters for SummerSlam's of the past and on 2004, they actually edited Benoit out of the bottom pic when Eddie does the Frog Splash. (I messed with the link and actually accessed the original version posted so they considered putting the real thing up then changed their mind!) And speaking of Eddie, they actually have edited Benoit out of pics from his Hall of Fame ceremony on their site. LOL.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> True, but at least he seems to be included in the Best of Raw set as there are at least two episodes where he's present.
> 
> I might be too optimistic but I think the bullshit will stop by 2020. Nowadays whenever there's any trace of him, they don't face any controversy but rather old fans who are excited about seeing his name/face on their product. I understand them distancing themselves when the shit was hot back in 2007 but now, the media doesn't even remember Benoit.
> 
> But indeed, it's ridiculous how they make sure that he's invisible everywhere. For instance, they put up posters for SummerSlam's of the past and on 2004, they actually edited Benoit out of the bottom pic when Eddie does the Frog Splash. (I messed with the link and actually accessed the original version posted so they considered putting the real thing up then changed their mind!) And speaking of Eddie, they actually have edited Benoit out of pics from his Hall of Fame ceremony on their site. LOL.


I haven't seen a show listing for the Raw set, I just assumed they would do what they always do and disavow the existence of Chris. That's great, 2 shows isn't much but it's a lot better than nothing.

I honestly believe when Vince has passed and its just Hunter he might move towards acknowledging him more. From all accounts Hunter had a ton of respect for Chris. I mean look no further than WM20, Hunter doesn't just tap for anyone (I think Cena, Taker, Brock and Chris are the only ones since 2000)

I would bet my life savings against him ever being inducted, and to be honest I think it might be irresponsible to do so considering he still has living family members. But editing him put of Eddies HOF induction and the SS poster is some full blown paranoia shit. I did think it was cool that in Ortons interview before Summerslam he talked about winning the title from Chris and how important that was. He even said his full name! Haha.

Who here is gonna be watching NOC live tonight?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'm definitely gonna watch NOC live. Excited about the main event.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched Cena/Punk/ADR HiaC match. This match really proved that a HiaC match can have really cool spots, without adding blood. **** from me


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, you guys need to chill. Who the FUCK wants Benoit matches on WWE's YouTube when you can watch THE UNDERTAKER (non bias he's like, top 10 all time) Vs KANE INSIDE THE FUCKING HELL IN A CELL? It was a DREAM MATCH for a great deal of people. How many dream matches was Benoit involved in, really? Maybe against HBK, but those were just 2 pointless Raw matches. UNDERTAKER VS KANE WAS PPV. AND INSIDE HIAC.









Hmmm... might go watch the first HBK/Benoit match 8*D.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Lol, you guys need to chill. Who the FUCK wants Benoit matches on WWE's YouTube when you can watch THE UNDERTAKER (non bias he's like, top 10 all time) Vs KANE INSIDE THE FUCKING HELL IN A CELL? It was a DREAM MATCH for a great deal of people. How many dream matches was Benoit involved in, really? Maybe against HBK, but those were just 2 pointless Raw matches. UNDERTAKER VS KANE WAS PPV. AND INSIDE HIAC.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That was a dream match for me as well, and I came away as disappointed as I have ever been in something involving The Undertaker. It was just not good, at all. Wasn't horrible or a dud or unwatchable, just not good. Boring. The match they had at WM14 is about 15 times better.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Kane HIAC was awful. One of the worst Cell matches ever. It was such a fucking piece of shit.

Why did they not put their Night of Champions match if they HAD to put a Taker/Kane World Title match? That one was actually a good bout.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd highly appreciate if someone wanted to toss me the link for a good stream to NOC tonight in my rep box or PM. Highly appreciate it.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Cena Vs Henry. YES.
> 
> Cena's best match this year besides the RAW affair with Punk. Henry RULES.


I was about to say well DUH considering the competition is matches with The Rock & Ryback, then I remembered he obviously just faced Bryan at Summerslam. You think the Henry match is better? Minority opinion if so.



Callamus said:


> I'd only go about ***1/2 for their MITB match. OTL is my MOTY at ****3/4 though. Felt they went about the MITB match all wrong. Yeah I'm no wrestler and I ain't in the business but I honestly felt they should have worked the match different lol. AJ's involvement should have been done way different too. If it was anyone else doing the exact same match it probably wouldn't have been any good, but at least we still had Punk Vs Bryan here. I was disappointed all things considered. Reminds me of Punk/Jericho. They had a fucking awesome straight up wrestling match at WM, then they have a gimmick match afterwards and it doesn't come close to the first match .


I agree with all of this besides the comparison to Punk/Jericho because I love both of those matches. I can't really see why anyone would put the MITB match at ****+ considering everything Cal said. It just seemed to be a step back from both guys and the AJ stuff overshadowed the match. *** 1/2 for me as well, but it was a disappoinying *** 1/2. Still good though.



Cactus Jack said:


> Anyone got some sneaky good matches that didn't happen at a major PPV in the last 5 years?


Unsure if you're saying you DO want matches from the past 5 years or you don't, but I'll just plug this because I always do:

World's Greatest Tag Team vs. Mysterio & Kidman (Smackdown 8/14/03)



smitty915 said:


> I would buy an Orton set, and i'm not a huge Orton fan as well but their could be some great stuff on their
> 
> vs Foley
> vs Benoit
> ...


Unsure if you're aware but an Orton set actually already exists (and has some of those matches listed) http://www.amazon.com/Randy-Orton-The-Evolution-Predator/dp/B0055SJW42



redskins25 said:


> I guess I'ts me that thinks otl>>>>>>ss 11 for orton/christian


Nah, I'm with you. I don't think the Summerslam match is a generic brawl but I do think it's a bit too one sided down the stretch for me rate it higher. **** 1/4 for OTL and *** 3/4 for Summerslam.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'd highly appreciate if someone wanted to toss me the link for a good stream to NOC tonight in my rep box or PM. Highly appreciate it.


^ I second this.

I haven't streamed a PPV in a few months, and would appreciate a good stream to watch tonight's PPV.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Agree completely. I can understand them not wanting to promote him and print T-Shirts and DVD box sets and all that, b*ut the lengths they go to pretend the greatest worker of all time did not exist is just beyond*
> absurd


:hbk2



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'd highly appreciate if someone wanted to toss me the link for a good stream to NOC tonight in my rep box or PM. Highly appreciate it.


Corey what happen today man, Rodger fucking killed us, been getting shit via text from everyone today 

I love henry/cena, but I still have cena/YES ! better.

You still need a stream ? I'm not watching it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't even wanna talk about the Redskins right now. haha. Let's just hope this PPV exceeds my low expectations. Got a good stream. (Y)


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I decided to check out the tag team turmoil match. The WWE interrupted it multiple times with their own adds so screw that.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Whelp, my Giants lost (fuck you Eli). Looking forward to Orton vs Bryan tonight. The rest... meh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> :hbk2
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I always like to say HBK is the greatest PREFORMER of all time. Being a great Preformer and a great worker is 2 different things, atleast in my view. Michaels excelled at story telling, psychology, and big match performances. Benoits greatest strengths were his unbelievable strength and conditioning, his mat wrestling ability, and his intensity. 

P.s., I'm feeling your pain bro, my Giants just got worked over BADLY by Peyton and Co. Sucks being eviscerated by a potential GOAT quarterback. There is really nothing you can do about it. You just have to take it and pray your offense can out score them in the end. Obviously our offenses didn't do that today.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

QUICK Night of Champions predictions:

Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler: Dean Ambrose to retain the US title

Alberto Del Rio vs RVD: Alberto Del Rio to retain the world title

CM Punk vs Axel/Heyman: Punk to finally get his win and revenge on Heyman

AJ vs Natalya vs Brie Bella vs Naomi: AJ to retain the Divas championship

Shield vs the winners of the tag team turmoil match: Shield to retain the tag team belts

Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan (expect a screwy finish): lolortonwins :HHH2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The music that is playing right now on the screen that comes up after the pre-show is Daniel Bryan's old theme song.

Tag Team Turmoil was kinda fun. Hot crowd tonight. Let's hope something is good. Punk/Axel-Heyman is NO DQ as well.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

As a Packers fan I don't feel bad for what happened to the Redskins today.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I go back and forth on it, but to me its the same IMO, but that a discussion for another day :lmao, yea I was watching that game, the giants secondary is horrible so yea, 

Back to the topic

Yea I'll pass NOC, I just lurk on here, and if I see hear good things, I'll watch later

Edit: Ban Dark Church JK


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stop talking about that sport thingy. We have like, a section for that I'm sure. THIS IS FOR RASSLIN DAMMIT.

And now I'm buggering off until I see NOC. Which will be later in the morning once it's aired, put online and I download it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So Night of Champions is starting off just like RAW would... with an in ring promo. Not a good start.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Paul Heyman better put on his carrying shoes. :HHH2 has put on his burying shoes :berried

EDIT: Wow this match is not good. Guys, please avoid this horrible Axel/Kingston match if you're going to watch the PPV later. Cal, get ready to hand out a NO.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Another fantastic performance on the mic by Heyman. I have a feeling Axel is going to be replaced by Wade Barrett as the new Paul Heyman guy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Axel defeats Kofi to retain the IC Title. Honestly didn't think it was that bad of a match, only downfall was the excessive length and Kofi's ridiculous comeback attempts with his stupidly setup moves. So glad Axel won despite me not being a fan of either one of em.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Speaking of those WWE polls, I gotta say.

I find it interesting the five choices are Hogan, Austin, Cena, HHH and Punk. No Rock?

unk


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Speaking of those WWE polls, I gotta say.
> 
> I find it interesting the five choices are Hogan, Austin, Cena, HHH and Punk. No Rock?
> 
> unk


 That's definitely not good for business. :HHH2 unk2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at Michael Cole and JBL freaking out over the referee mistake in this Diva's match. That was one of the best commentary moments I've seen/heard in a while.

1/3 so far. Only the turmoil match has been good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I sense a SANDOW appearance soon!!!

EDIT: Gosh dammit, why didn't they go with the cash in there!? That match was going swimmingly until the stupid finish. Postmatch stuff was just random. Expecting a rematch at Battleground.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That had to be the funniest thing ever in wrestling.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Intellectual savior my ass


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Booker T, the greatest World Heavyweight Champion in history? GTFO


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What the hell did we just watch?


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)




----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fuck if I know. Crowd has absolutely no reaction for it though. I'll tell ya one thing, I sure as hell don't wanna see another Punk/Ryback match. At least this time the face/heel dynamic will be the way it should.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont mind Ryback TBH if he has a mouthpiece

SHIELD VS ZIGGLER :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Ryback have some good chemistry imo. Cell match was good and TLC match was great. What I like about it now is it feels like a completely different feud. Not only is the face/heel alignment different, but now Ryback has Heyman and they both have completely different characters from what they had a year ago. I look forward to seeing what they can do. Punk can play the babyface in peril with the best of them, so at least they'll have that going for them in the matches.

RATINGS so far:

Axel/Kofi- ***1/4
Divas Four-Way- 1/2*
RVD/Del Rio- **1/2
Punk/Heyman and Axel- **

Didn't watch Miz/Fandango. Found a stream, so lucky me. PPV has been shit so far so I'm really glad I didn't pay for this shit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can't imagine this PPV doing too well on the Cal Scale. Hopefully :bryan rton2 can save us, but it's a tall task. I actually thought RVD/Del Rio was pretty good. Punk/Heyman was also very good, but Punk/Axel was bad.

:heyman > :axel in the ring.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Mine:

Axel/Kofi: ***
Divas: *3/4
RVD/Del Rio: ***
Handicap: **
Fandango/Miz: **
Ziggler/Ambrose: **1/4

The booking tonight is horrendous. They really killed a red hot crowd.


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

I actually thought the handicap match was fun. ***1/4 if i'd have to rate it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hopefully Orton & Bryan can give us some **** material cause right now I have one match on the whole show at ***+ and that's Del Rio/RVD. That stupid ass finish though...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Turmoil: *****
Kofi/Axel: ***1/2*
Divas: ***
RVD/ADR: ****1/2*
Fandango/Miz: **1/2*
Punk/Axel: ****
Punk/Heyman: ***1/2*
Ziggler/Ambrose: ***3/4*
PTP/Shield: *****

Wow this is bad. Are we watching a 1998 PPV?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

This shows gonna end late

Or this match is gonna go short


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton/Bryan: ******

Those fuckers saved this PPV.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Fuck this shit. Daniel Bryan's the WWE Champion and I'm not even happy about it. Love how NO ONE is acknowledging the fast count. Cool.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HES THE CHAMPION! THE BEARD IS HERE!!!



till tomorrow.................................................................................................


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

First of all, that show was the drizzling shits. Heyman was entertaining, but that was it. I like "Time to die" from Punk, though. 

They should have ended the Punk/Heyman feud tonight, or at worst introduced Barrett as the new Heyman guy, or fuck, ANYONE but Ryback. They've certainly made this worse.

Bryan/Orton was pretty good, but fuck off with that finish. Fast count will be a topic tomorrow night, and Trips will grant the rematch, maybe tomorrow on Raw, or for Battleground. Would be awesome if it were next week in CHICAGO, but that's two week's from the PPV.

Easily the worst PPV of the year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great main event match but fuck that stupid finish. Should've just had Orton retain by lots of shenanigans or a DQ.

The first half was shit and I was away for most of the second hour. LOL @ Punk losing another PPV match, though. :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Axel/Kofi- ***1/4
Divas Four-Way- 1/2*
RVD/Del Rio- **1/2
Punk/Heyman and Axel- **
Ziggler/Ambrose- **1/4
Shield/PTP- **3/4
Bryan/Orton- ***1/2

Overall, pretty awful night. Opener and main event were the only somewhat redeeming things on the PPV, and even then they weren't anything amazing. I'm not even sure I should bother with Miz/Fandango.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

The first 10 minutes or so were great till the ref bump. From then the match lost its steam and the finish was horrible. Meh. ***1/4


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Ugh, I take back any semi-hopeful thing I said about tonight. That was just bad. I'm not gonna heap on "Worst PPV Ever" like most on the forum do after every bad PPV, but I enjoyed only snippets. Add the damn weather delay for the Sunday night NFL game, and that was a dull 3 hours unk3

Main event was pretty good, though. It just never picked up big time like I felt Bryan vs. Cena did. Hopefully their re-matches are even better.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Piss poor show. Just awful. 

I felt that a lot of matches were not positioned right on the card and the show just had no flow to it whatsoever. Not to mention, the anti climatic ending. I can't believe I don't give a fuck that Bryan's champion.

I will say though, I'm interested to see what's going to happen on RAW tomorrow night not only with Bryan and Orton but also Punk and the rest involved. Also, I just wanna say props to the Divas. I was entertained by their little match.

I guess the PPV did it's job in making me care about RAW tomorrow but still doesn't take away from the fact that I had to sit through bad match after bad match. I mean, Miz/Fandango could have been settled on RAW. And, imo, the NOC concept is an over kill. Too many damn meaningless title matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The biggest disappointment for me actually had to be Dean Ambrose. The excuses are over; dude just doesn't know how to wrestle a singles match. I don't blame anyone else if they gave up on him.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Honestly though, the build for this was not good either. I mean sure Bryan/Orton had their thing but I had to constantly remind myself that their was a PPV tonight.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

When was the last time we had such a major drop-off after a great Big 4 PPV? Yikes.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The biggest disappointment for me actually had to be Dean Ambrose. The excuses are over; dude just doesn't know how to wrestle a singles match. I don't blame anyone else if they gave up on him.


I thought his match with Ziggler was his best match since being called up to the main roster. Then again, that really isn't saying much. At least it wasn't Kane levels of sucky. 

The next guy everyone's gonna turn on soon is Bray Wyatt.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Piss poor show. Just awful.
> 
> I felt that a lot of matches were not positioned right on the card and the show just had no flow to it whatsoever. Not to mention, the anti climatic ending. I can't believe I don't give a fuck that Bryan's champion.
> 
> ...


Exactly my thoughts. It wasn't just a bad wrestling show, it was depressing. The show felt like CP/OTL 2011 to me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

How was it gents ? Anything I should watch later ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> How was it gents ? Anything I should watch later ?


Main event was great. I guess you can also check out the WHC match and the Heyman portion of Punk's match. Stay away from everything else.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> How was it gents ? Anything I should watch later ?


The Punk match and main event won't kill to watch nor should you kill to watch.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> How was it gents ? Anything I should watch later ?


Main event's worth a watch. Ziggler vs. Ambrose isn't too bad, but it's pretty meh. RVD hits a Van Terminator, and Heyman is hilarious. However, the event as a whole can be summed up as: fpalm


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I actually spent money on that.



funnyfaces1 said:


> The biggest disappointment for me actually had to be Dean Ambrose. The excuses are over; dude just doesn't know how to wrestle a singles match. I don't blame anyone else if they gave up on him.


I think that I figured out what it is. He has no concept of pacing. It's like a bunch of stuff just all thrown together. It's frustrating, because he does so many things well IN-RING, not even counting his many attributes outside of it. He displays great personality, he really understands working like a heel, he actually has some nice moves, etc. But he can't put it all together into something cohesive.

Someone really needs to just pull him aside and work with him on flow and structure when it comes to matches. He needs to learn how to use his mannerisms to add to a build in the match. Whatever, Orton gets shit, but I don't give a shit. Tonight was an example of what Ambrose could learn from. And it wasn't even one of Orton's best matches at all, but when he started mocking Bryan, it was well placed, and actually led to something. When he started getting nasty, the same thing applies. It built up. Ambrose just does things & moves so randomly. 

It's a shame, because it's so easily fixable, IMO, especially if he just watched and studied. I'm going to guess that he was put into lead situations right away (I'm talking about in his indy career), or was with other subpar talent early on, so he never really got the chance to learn from others who knew what they were doing in the ring.

I will say this, I've seen people berate ADR and call his fans stupid because "in ring ability is the least important aspect in wrestling." I'd disagree, and say that Ambrose is proof of that. If he doesn't get to the top, intelligence as far as working a match is concerned will be the reason why. I used to say that he has everything to be a huge star, and I still believe that, if he can get his in-ring work up to par, but it would not surprise me at all to see Rollins ascend higher now, for the reasons of match quality and in ring ability alone. 

So those who scoff at the notion of ring work mattering much, are very wrong. It could seriously be the thing that holds him back, I think. Which is a shame, because I do think he's more compelling than many other main eventers, even in the ring, though he can't quite put it all together. There's so much he could improve upon, but the talent is there. He just needs to figure out how to make it all flow and work together.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Night of Champions 2013*

*Intercontinental Championship
*Curtis Axel (c) vs. Kofi Kingston - ** 3/4

*Divas Championship
*AJ Lee (c) vs. Natalya vs. Brie Bella vs. Naomi - **

*World Heayweight Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Rob Van Dam - *** 1/4

The Miz vs. Fandango - N/R (didn't watch)

*No Disqualification Handicap Elimination Match
*CM Punk vs. Paul Heyman & Curtis Axel - ** 1/4

*United States Championship
*Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - ** 1/2

*WWE Tag Team Championship
*Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns (c) vs. The Prime Time Players - ** 1/4

*WWE Championship
*Randy Orton (c) vs. Daniel Bryan - ***


- Kicked off the night with an impromptu IC Title match. For a guy who's definitely not a fan of either one of the participants I don't think the match was all that bad. Got plenty of time to develop (maybe a little too much of it) and created some decent nearfalls down the stretch. My only complaints are all about Kofi. Why must every one of his fucking moves take so long and have to be setup so perfectly each time? Double springboards, throwing his leg out before doing any sort of attempted sweep or Trouble in Paradise, etc. It annoys the hell outta me.

- I don't think the Divas match was as bad as many others are making it out to be, there was just too much going on. They kept me entertained for 5 minutes so I can't complain. Bless Naomi's heart for trying so hard...

- Del Rio/RVD was MOTN for me. Good little clash of styles and Rob's bumping really helped put Del Rio's offense over. Great selling of the arm late in the match and that final stretch really had me invested in what was going on. Del Rio putting the knees up for the 5 star looked BRUTAL. Very enjoyable match with an absolutely stupid finish. Willing to bet Rob just didn't want to lose clean.... that bastard.

- Punk/Heyman & Axel was pretty meh. Lot of the same stuff wee saw from them on RAW a couple weeks ago, just without the emotion from Paul. Really not much to see here except a bunch of shots with a kendo stick and the completely random interference finish. More Punk/Ryback... yay. Honestly though I don't think the matches will be that bad but damn, how much longer can you stretch this out?

- Shield matches were pretty uninspiring. Ziggler shouldn't be wrestling for the US Title. Biggest highlight of both match was Titus coming in and CLEANING HOUSE off the hot tag. Rollins' bumping too, omg. That guy's gonna be star. Flat finish to the Tag Title match.

- Orton/Bryan just couldn't save this one for me. This just honestly did not have the feel of a PPV main event. Orton's methodical style made him come off as clunky and slow as he just couldn't keep up with Bryan in a couple spots, almost a disaster with Bryan's backflip in the corner. There were a few aspects of this I enjoyed; the sequence of dives where Orton eventually outsmarts Bryan and suckers him into trying the 3rd one then hits the ddt on the floor for the countout spot, and the t-bone suplex reversal from Orton. The usual Bryan stuff was great too with the release suplex and flying headbutt. The finish didn't help matters though, fast count does no good for Bryan. He's the champ and I'm not even excited about it. Good match but they've had better on TV. Shitty, shitty ppv. Worst of the year. Match placement and booking was facepalm worthy.​


----------



## #Mark (Dec 31, 2011)

I actually thought RVD/ADR could have been a four star match if the crowd gave a shit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh definitely. I think they're certainly capable of doing it at Battleground with a proper finish. Would've gladly chucked *** 1/2 at it for tonight if they developed something for a true finish after Rob got to the ropes in the cross armbreaker. I'm really loving what Del Rio is giving us in the midcard with the World Title guys. As much as people criticize his character, I actually _wanna _see the guy wrestle every month. 4 straight PPVs, 4 straight matches that have delivered.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Just the thought of a Punk/Ryback feud is sickening. Lets take one of our best wrestlers and put him against a guy who is a joke and sucks at nearly everything.

Based on results and general opinion this event sucked like expected. I also think it halted the momentum of the product as a whole. I hope I'm wrong but nothing exciting looks to be occurring soon. Unless they strip Bryan of the title due to a fast count by the official.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

I may be in the minority, but Axel vs Kofi was pretty solid. Ziggler and Dean was pretty cool too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks fellas, I guess I"ll check out orton/Bryan when ever, I knew it was gonna be a shitty ppv so didn't even bother


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Tag team turmoil started once the real Americans stepped in. 

:mark: for the pop Swagger got on both submissions.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Crappy PPV. Bryan/Orton was ok. Huge chemistry issues there IMHO and coulda been better. Either the decision will be reversed tomorrow or Orton will win it back tomorrow on Raw. Mayyyyyyyyyybe at the next PPV. 

Happy Bryan won but it was anticlimactic to say the least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This was my little brother's first ever PPV he watched. Well he really only watched two matches, and he really only cared for the main event. Kid really only cares about one guy, and that guy is :bryan2. He was so excited when Bryan won tonight. I don't think he realized what the implications of a fast count are, so when he sees Bryan getting stripped of the title tomorrow, he will surely be upset. That excitement though really made me enjoy Orton/Bryan that much more. I'm also one of the few guys that actually like all of their matches together. Overall satisfied with the main event.

Swagger was a goon in that turmoil match. Crazy to think that three of the biggest in-ring stars in this PPV are Paul Heyman, Titus O'Neill, and Jack Swagger. Just goes to show how bad of a night it was.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I work at a movie theater and here in Canada they show WWE PPVs on the big screen. I was working today and noticed on the schedule that the PPV was today, blame horrible build up. Anyway my shift ended at 6 and the show started at 5, but I managed to finish up by 5:30 and caught the show starting with the divas match. 

But the show is aired on the big screen via satellite and there was a really heavy rain storm out today and thus the satellite signal was cut and the show ended abruptly right when Punk was starting to beat up Heyman. The auditorium which had about 100 people in it started chanting "BEST FOR BUSINESS" as I sat there patiently, hitting on the girl in front of me. A pretty good looking female wrestling fan sitting by herself, WHY NOT?

I didn't get her number but I will most likely see her at the next PPV because she got a courtesy ticket. And me, well, I get in for free. :show


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Talking to an attractive female wrestling fan would've been a lot more worthwhile and enjoyable than tonight's show 

Anyone see the guy in this forum trying to argue that WWE's treating Bryan like a jobber? :lol Good lord


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Alim said:


> I work at a movie theater and here in Canada they show WWE PPVs on the big screen. I was working today (I work at the theater) and noticed on the schedule that the PPV was today, blame horrible build up. Anyway my shift ended at 6 and the show started at 5, but I managed to finish up by 5:30 and caught the show starting with the divas match.
> 
> But the show is aired on the big screen via satellite and there was a really heavy rain storm out today and thus the satellite signal was cut and the show ended abruptly right when Punk was starting to beat up Heyman. The auditorium which had about 100 people in it started chanting "BEST FOR BUSINESS" as I sat there patiently, hitting on the girl in front of me. *A pretty good looking female wrestling fan sitting by herself, WHY NOT?*
> 
> I didn't get her number but I will most likely see her at the next PPV because she got a courtesy ticket. And me, well, I get in for free. :show


well fuck my luck. All the ones I see are taken or well...you know :side:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

swagger_ROCKS said:


> well fuck my luck. All the ones I see are taken or well...you know :side:


I was quite shocked actually. I saw her before the show started and didn't think she would be there to watch WRESTLING, but I guess the saying "don't judge a book by it's cover" is true


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Corey, how did you not give the first two matches a DUD? stuff was soooooooooo bad. At least you pointed out all things I've been annoyed with for years now. It's the worst. Like that crowd. And yeah, I'm with everyone else who thought that Del Rio vs RVD > Danielson vs Orton. Main event was fine, but it wasn't more than that. Those two just can't pop with each other. The only drawback to Del Rio vs RVD was the bullshit finish. Which really upset me b/c I had a lot of fun with the match.

Heyman & Punk in general made the handicap watchable, but the Axel moments in the middle got dull.

What else happened? Exactly. Awesome show to crap on. WWE deserved it after putting no emphasis on any of the build. Complete filler.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Night of Champions looks terrible. I'll check out the WHC and WWE title matches. Everything else can fuck off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The right move. 

Watch tag team turmoil for a nice laugh at the shit match & the ads that plagued it throughout.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I downloaded the full show and started to watch it but Axel/Kofi made me turn it off.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao (Y)


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Good to see the show was bad, makes me feel better because I had my worst streaming experience ever last night. The first stream I used required me to download some player so I can watch the stream (but I could still hear the audio so I knew how some things in the PPV were going and I could see a tiny bit of the picture, but not the whole picture) so I downloaded the player just so I could hopefully watch the stream and for future reference, but of course with my shitty connection it took a while to download and install, and when you're downloading and install things like that it has a habit of closing down your browser, which happened multiple times. When I finally got it to install along with another player, it still wouldn't let me watch the stream so I thought fuck this and searched for other streams on Google but they pretty much were all the same and wouldn't let me watch it.

tl;dr - things didn't work out last night and I couldn't watch the PPV. 

I have two questions on the PPV for those who watched though, why did Punk lose? What happened? And what happened in the Bryan/Orton match? Why is Bryan WWE Champion again so soon? Why not have him chase the title for a few months and have Orton and the corporation retain at a few PPV's via classic heel tactics. 

Just looking at the results it looks like a really shit PPV.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Phew. Really glad I opted out of buying that. Pretty underwhelming show. I just skimmed through it there and it feels like they used NOC to create build for tonight's Raw more than anything else tbh. The PPV itself actually felt like a Raw. Only match worth a damn was the main event and even then it wasn't spectacular. I liked it though and think Orton/Bryan have nice chemistry. We're obviously getting another match between the pair and I look forward to it. Finish was obviously a bit of a surprise but I have a feeling Bryan's going to get Jericho'd. Either that or Orton gets the boot based on that backstage segment with HHH earlier in the night. So yeah, definitely one of the weaker PPV's this year but I'll be damned if it doesn't have me hyped for Raw lol. 

*Orton/Bryan - ***3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm hoping they pull the _"ref had a fast count so Danielson has to give the championship back"_ route so I can chuckle at WWE's booking department some more. When it rains it pours.

but honestly it does suck how they left that open for tomorrow to be all screwy instead of having a definitive winner _(or climax, for a better term_) Kept waiting for Triple H, thus hindering my excitement that Danielson actually won.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm fine with them doing the angle on Raw since I didn't buy the PPV so I don't feel ripped off lol. I'm also fine with Bryan getting stripped of the title. My only gripe is that while doing all this obviously advances the story and makes Bryan's chase that extra bit desperate, he's going to be a 2 time champion before he actually gets a run with the belt. Hopefully they do strike it off the record books and they only acknowledge him as a 1 time champ. It's best for him and the title itself. We were all expecting shenanigans and they swerved us by not swerving us. Good ole WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didn't watch the PPV, doubt I will tbh. But Bryan looks like being champ again.......for a day, and Ryback/Punk. Fuck sake, just I thought WWE were turning it around.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Bryan was badass stuff imo, Orton calculating the 3rd Suicide Dive and blocking it was the best thing he did in a long time. ***3/4-**** for me. Cannot see how do people prefer ADR/RVD which imo was a festival of sloppiness.

Shield/PTP was Cody's dream match. Dat traditional Tag formula 8*D


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Starbuck said:


> I'm fine with them doing the angle on Raw since I didn't buy the PPV so I don't feel ripped off lol. I'm also fine with Bryan getting stripped of the title. My only gripe is that while doing all this obviously advances the story and makes Bryan's chase that extra bit desperate, he's going to be a 2 time champion before he actually gets a run with the belt. Hopefully they do strike it off the record books and they only acknowledge him as a 1 time champ. It's best for him and the title itself. We were all expecting shenanigans and they swerved us by not swerving us. Good ole WWE.


All of that sounds like a pile of shit. WWE looks like they have no idea what they're doing with the company.



ATF said:


> Orton/Bryan was badass stuff imo, Orton calculating the 3rd Suicide Dive and blocking it was the best thing he did in a long time. ***3/4-**** for me. Cannot see how do people prefer ADR/RVD which imo was a festival of sloppiness.
> 
> Shield/PTP was Cody's dream match. Dat traditional Tag formula 8*D


Orton nearly died b/c he didn't react fast enough to Danielson's backflip, yet the Del Rio match was sloppy? Ironically enough, the only noticeable part that stuck out that was sloppy in that one was the apron moonsault spot.

It was ok. Nothing special whatsoever. Hot tag was over much too soon.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> All of that sounds like a pile of shit. WWE looks like they have no idea what they're doing with the company.


You had to know tons of fuckery was the order of the day with an angle like this. There's no way things were going to be smooth sailing. Granted, I'm surprised they went with a bryan victory so soon but Raw hasn't even happened yet so I'll reserve my judgement until I see what they go for. If Bryan does get stripped then that will be twice he's had his dream ripped right out of his hands. More sympathy = better babyface = better underdog = sweeter victory when it's all said and done. If it turns out like that I'll have no complaints.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Orton nearly died b/c he didn't react fast enough to Danielson's backflip, yet the Del Rio match was sloppy? Ironically enough, the only noticeable part that stuck out that was sloppy in that one was the apron moonsault spot.
> 
> It was ok. Nothing special whatsoever. Hot tag was over much too soon.


That was the only noticeable sloppy part of Orton/Bryan, whereas I just saw a lot of little nitpicks in the World Title match. That Moonsault was worse than missing the title. I just disliked the holy hell outta it, my opinion.

I think that, for a filler essentially, it was decent. Titus ramming over Seth was awesome.

Also had a lot of fun with the Heyman portion of the Handicap. Everything else kinda sucked. Divas match was a DUD of DUD's. But thanks to Orton/Bryan, NOC was still better than Royal Rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Skipped everything bar Punk beating up Heyman (urgh, Ryback) and the main event. Main event was meh. So I'm guessing the fast count was done on purpose right? Not like Armstrong to count anywhere near that speed, usually he's slow and lazy. Was expecting HHH to reverse the decision then and there, but nope. We get at least a day of somewhat happiness.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Corey, how did you not give the first two matches a DUD? stuff was soooooooooo bad. At least you pointed out all things I've been annoyed with for years now. It's the worst. Like that crowd. And yeah, I'm with everyone else who thought that Del Rio vs RVD > Danielson vs Orton. Main event was fine, but it wasn't more than that. Those two just can't pop with each other. The only drawback to Del Rio vs RVD was the bullshit finish. Which really upset me b/c I had a lot of fun with the match.


Axel/Kofi exceeded excpectations and actually had me interested, despite Kofi's stupid shit. I could see the DUD argument for the Divas match but I was just kinda laughing at stuff and having fun with it. The completely missed cross body was awesome. :lol Really showed you why AJ is carrying this division. Oh and that ref comment from JBL automatically gave it a *.



Nostalgia said:


> I have two questions on the PPV for those who watched though, why did Punk lose? What happened? And what happened in the Bryan/Orton match? Why is Bryan WWE Champion again so soon? Why not have him chase the title for a few months and have Orton and the corporation retain at a few PPV's via classic heel tactics.
> 
> Just looking at the results it looks like a really shit PPV.


Punk was about to nail Heyman in the head with the kendo stick (after about 14 body shots) and Ryback ran in and drove him through the table. Cut Punk's back and Ryback looked like he knocked himself for a sec. Then he threw Heyman on top to get the pin.

Bryan hit the running knee after a kick to the head and Armstrong completely pulled a fast count but NO ONE acknowledged it. No announcers, no Triple H, nothing. Pissed me off.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So I watched Orton/Bryan. It's a shame that the guy Bryan is feuding with in this huge storyline is pretty much the one guy on the roster he doesn't have good chemistry with. Actually it probably has more to do with the fact that Orton just doesn't cut it as a top level worker than any issues with chemistry but the problem remains the same; I can't see these two having great PPV main events together. It wasn't a bad match, it was solid with elements of a good match at times, it just never took off. The best part was by far the suicide dives and ensuing cutoff by Orton. Other than that I didn't really care. Reminiscent of their TV matches in terms of them doing a handful of cool spots (Orton's signature backbreaker from the 2nd rope, T-Bone suplex counter) but not being able to piece it all together with pacing, structure and storytelling quality.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Punk was about to nail Heyman in the head with the kendo stick (after about 14 body shots) and Ryback ran in and drove him through the table. Cut Punk's back and Ryback looked like he knocked himself for a sec. Then he threw Heyman on top to get the pin.
> 
> Bryan hit the running knee after a kick to the head and Armstrong completely pulled a fast count but NO ONE acknowledged it. No announcers, no Triple H, nothing. Pissed me off.


Thanks for that. So I guess Ryback's the new Heyman guy, I didn't want that at all just because I don't want to see a rehashed Ryback/Punk feud. They could of gone with a fresh new talent as the next Heyman guy, but I guess that wanted someone already established to take the storyline from here, still don't like it though.

And that's weird about the main-event, things will likely get acknowledged on RAW tonight, but ugh, Daniel Bryan is WWE Champion again and he'll likely lose it again instantly (if for example they acknowledge the shenanigans on RAW tonight and strip him of the belt, I've heard that could happen) and I don't like it when they hot potato the WWE Title like this.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Axel/Kofi- **1/2
Divas Four-Way- *
RVD/Del Rio- ***1/4
Miz/Fandango- DUD
Punk/Heyman and Axel- ***1/2
Ziggler/Ambrose- **3/4
Shield/PTP- **3/4
Bryan/Orton- ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So PPV main events this year (matches that went on LAST)... not the best year we've had lol:

RR - Punk Vs Rock - Shite
EC - Punk Vs Rock - Shite
WM - Cena Vs Rock - Shite
ER - HHH Vs Lesnar - Shite
PB - Cena Vs Ryback - Shite
MITB - All Stars Ladder Match - Decent
SS - Cena Vs Bryan - Great
NOC - Orton Vs Bryan - Decent

Let's hope they at least stick in the "decent" category for the rest of the year rather than going back to the shite we got for the first half of the year .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I really hope that they give Orton the title back and don't count any extra reigns. It sucks to have Bryan chase the belt some more while being a 2 time WWE Champion. On the positive side, Orton would be an eleven time champion and tied with Edge. 

But indeed, last night's finish was terrible. It had that "that's it?" feeling all over it and I (as well as others) kept waiting for HHH to show up but we got absolutely nothing. They better solve this on Raw because I've been turned off almost completely by this awful PPV and was doing everything but watch the show for the entirety of it with the exception of the World Title matches.


----------



## Mister Hands (Sep 2, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> So I watched Orton/Bryan. It's a shame that the guy Bryan is feuding with in this huge storyline is pretty much the one guy on the roster he doesn't have good chemistry with. Actually it probably has more to do with the fact that Orton just doesn't cut it as a top level worker than any issues with chemistry but the problem remains the same; I can't see these two having great PPV main events together. It wasn't a bad match, it was solid with elements of a good match at times, it just never took off. The best part was by far the suicide dives and ensuing cutoff by Orton. Other than that I didn't really care. Reminiscent of their TV matches in terms of them doing a handful of cool spots (Orton's signature backbreaker from the 2nd rope, T-Bone suplex counter) but not being able to piece it all together with pacing, structure and storytelling quality.


The lack of chemistry really confuses me, because even though I'm not fond of Orton, he's had some awesome matches, so the potential is there. The only thing I can think of is he doesn't work fast enough to keep up with Bryan for very long, so the match felt plodding.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't think it's a terrible show but it's wasn't a great show either. I enjoyed the first segment despite being a filler segment that was only used to announce Axel's title defence and also to ban interferences in the main event (they could have easily confirmed the IC title match last week and HHH could have made that stipulation on the main event in a backstage segment). Still an enjoyable segment, Heyman's acting is fantastic. No problems with Ryback being the new Paul Heyman guy. I still don't think he's THAT bad. He is poor in the ring but at least his character makes up for that (IMO). 

I haven't watched the main event yet but I really hope they take the title off Bryan tonight and erase the victory yesterday. It just seems weird for him to win the title so soon. It reminds me of Mankind when he lost against the Rock and he was being screwed for weeks out of the title but then finally got his big moment in 1999.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/Bryan is far and away the best main event of the year. Bryan/Orton is second, and then I'd have Punk/Rock matches (EC and then RR), then the Brock/HHH cage, then Cena/Ryback, then Rock/Cena, and then that shitty ass All-star MITB match would be last.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Really bad show but at least it wasn't one that was ever supposed to be any good. ADR/RVD was truly awful. Even worse than the Divas 4 way which was really bad. It at least got comically bad during the second half. The kitchen sink link on commentary and Cole's extremely delayed reaction to it was the highlight of the show. These two had NEGATIVE chemistry together. Ton of truly awful spots. Basically anything RVD did and anything Del Rio did to set up an RVD spot. That jump off the top rope so that RVD could kick him. Insanity. Finish sucked a million dicks. Just why? Rob didn't even try to break the grip on the armbar. Just sat in it for like a minute barely even selling it with his arm "completely stretched out". And of course he doesn't sell it all post match. Ricardo's sudden recovery when he reached that chair away from Del Rio with his arm in a sling was amusing. Does Rob Van Dam really need protecting from a clean loss to your world champ in 2013? Wow. Punk match sucked but I didn't expect anything else. Punk's got his hands on Heyman way too much so early into the feud and even up to this point that it doesn't matter one bit now when he does get his hands on him because it's happened too much during the feud rather than only happening at the end to send Paul away. Axel has zero presence at all. I didn't watch Kofi/Axel because I'm not sadistic but I thought for sure that promo at the start was to set up Axel losing twice. Hunter still out there doing his comedy burial routine of heels even in this new role. Super. Crowd was dead all show but especially for this. Axel doesn't draw any heat. Who knew. Table spot looked like a bitch on Punk. Not blown away by Ryback being entered into the fold but it's an improvement on Axel at least. Logical for Ryback to wait for Heyman to take a beating before coming out too. Shield matches were matches that were just there. Nothing to them and no reason to care about them. Hasn't really been a reason to care about a Shield match since they first lost clean. They're just guys right now who hold belts and triple powerbomb babyfaces without building much heat. Ambrose had the least interesting match I've ever seen Ziggler have. Dolph's getting hurt really fucking bad right now which sucks. Too think he cashed in MITB and won just a few months ago. Titus is fun to watch at least but it'd be cool if he was getting pushed on merit rather than because his tag partner said he likes dicks rather than vaginas. Is what it is I guess. Main event was a very standard match. Once again the control segment is full of nothing. Standard spots they both do in every match and the match really suffered from them never building any momentum. Seemed like they were after the dives spot but then the ref bump killed it. Finish sucked bad. Best part was them trying to shoot to fans going crazy and they find a group who are a cross between confused and dissapointed. Commentators didn't even mention the fast count. Not even JBL. Amazed he didn't make another CJ Ross comment when that happened seeing as he made an effort to mention they Mayweather fight in just about every other match. I guess Danielson at least won and went over pretty strong. Explanation for the fast count should be amusing. I thought Armstrong was just going to call for a DQ when he got back in. Actually think that would have been better. Commentators are allowed to call refs by their name again now then I guess. Progress. They'll tell everyone that you're only allowed one save in tag matches next week. Or not perhaps. That's been an actual rule for WWE tags for years apparently btw if you didn't know but nobody ever mentioned it on TV so none of the fans are to know. Skip the show. Just remembered that they did all that build with Big Show and he didn't even make the show. Amusing. Sting and Hogan winning the votes was amusing too. Not as much as Hunter only getting 4% and being bombed by Punk. At least they're not rigging polls then I guess. Well he did win the greatest tag champs poll. Lol. Definition of a PPV that they would have been happier if they hadn't scheduled it in a year ago.*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Now that you mention it, WTF was up with those polls lol? The most surprising one for me was Booker winning the WHC one. In what world does that make sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booker T in general doesn't make sense. WHY IS HE STILL ON THE SHOWS? No longer commentating, lost his GM job to Vickie... yet he seems to hang about the locker room wearing a suit every week :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Finally someone who agrees ADR/RVD sucked and had nothing up to the Ziggler and Christian matches. Like Seabs said, this was the RVD show to be perfectly frank, with only Berto getting in three or four good shots there. In that Del Rio off the top rope into a kick spot, you can clearly spot Alberto selling the kick before RVD even perform it. I don't wanna be a Jehovah in a crowd of Christians (no pun intended there) in that I'm a disliker of the match in a mix of fans of it here, but I just thought it was all anything but as good as y'all make it out to be. Like, if they had chemistry, I didn't like it one bit.

Just my opinion though. Notice y'all are gonna attack me and say Orton/Bryan wasn't that good, aren't you mf'ers? :side:


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Reading through some thoughts in here. Lord knows why. Extremely amused by how many people are calling ADR/RVD a good match. Wanted to comment on the Ambrose point that someone brought up though. Why did people think he'd be having great midcard length singles matches with everyone on the roster? That's a genuine question btw not me being a smarky bum. Did I miss all them excellent sub 10 minute matches that Ambrose worked prior to the The Shield run? I assume it's based off the Regal matches but if you ever thought he'd be working that type of match on the main roster then you haven't been following the product very closely at all. In his defence though I guess NOBODY on the roster right now can work an interesting control segment. Danielson obv. could but he's stuck doing the same comeback in every match so doesn't get to shine by controlling a match and doing his own thing with it. It's amazing with the developmental resources that they have that all their new guys are so incapable of controlling a match before they get to trading big spots. Unless I missed the part where 5 minute chinlocks became cool and got super over.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Seabs said:


> *Unless I missed the part where 5 minute chinlocks became cool and got super over.*


Happened on Raw like, 3 weeks ago dude. Keep up.

CHIIIIINLOCKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Mister Hands said:


> The lack of chemistry really confuses me, because even though I'm not fond of Orton, he's had some awesome matches, so the potential is there. The only thing I can think of is he doesn't work fast enough to keep up with Bryan for very long, so the match felt plodding.


Orton is GLASS at this point. Doubt he'll bust his best shit for this way below filler PPV. They've had more exciting matches already, and this one was ok.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Axel & Heyman/Punk for the sake of it. The Axel portion is dull. The Heyman portion is a Top 10 moments of the year worthy (bar the reveal of Ryback as the new Heyman guy, and even his performance here wasn't bad at all for what it was).

"OH MY GOD! ARE YOU CRAZY?!" :heyman2


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

*NIGHT OF FUCKING CHAMPIONS*
Intercontinental: *1/2**
Divas: *3/4**
World Heavyweight: *3/4**
Miz/Fandango?: *DUD*
Handicap: **1/4*
US: *1/2**
Tag: ***
WWE: ***3/4*

Wut, Triple H? A promo? Is this RAW? Why is Kofi here? Who signed off on the length of that match? Who was logic in the divas match? RVD learning Spanish? Is Miz a champion? Is Fandango a champion? What am I watching?

Is Paul wearing a bulletproof vest? Does Ryback even Goldberg? Why does Ambrose not give a shit? Is Titus as good as I think he is? Is this a one match card? Why did Scott Armstrong do a fast count? How come nobody noticed?

Am I a fucking idiot for watching this show? Nah, WWE are fucking idiots for putting it on. I didn't know any better.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

That Orton V DB match was disappointing. I expect more then just a solid match with these two.

Orton looked awkward in there with Bryan. 

DB won the title and I didn't feel shit. How is this possible?


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

The PPV was the drizzling shits. Can't recall a worse PPV in recent memory. Orton/Bryan was alright, but the moment was spoiled due to the fast count with Triple H hanging over everyone's heads. I know Bryan will be stripped tonight, but they were still trying to create a moment last night, and the whole possibility of the Corporation ruining the party greatly took away from Bryan winning the title.

There must have been some Orton fans losing their shit last night. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? I could use a laugh.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

Callamus said:


> Happened on Raw like, 3 weeks ago dude. Keep up.
> 
> CHIIIIINLOCKOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


*Actually it did happen when Cesaro decided to make a chinlock the best move over in two consecutive matches down in NXT. But NXT doesn't really exist so it doesn't count.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually Cesaro invented (sort of) and made the real best move ever - the Cesarocopter.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Has Cesaro ever done the UFO in WWE? People would lose their shits when he starts doing that on guys like Langston.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No but the Cesarocopter is a very nice variant of the UFO


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

So, is there anything worth watching from last night? Doesn't sound like it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> So, is there anything worth watching from last night? Doesn't sound like it.


Well, I loved Orton/Bryan, but many others didn't. The unanimous loved moment of the night was Heyman's portion of the Handicap match if you're looking for that


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Nothing is a "very nice variant" to the UFO, because nothing fucking beats the UFO.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ fuck that's awesome. He needs to start doing that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, nothing's a nice variant?!

You my friend have just caused war with me... I shall have to destroy your puny UFO which I didn't want to but I have to... because NOTHING and I mean NOTHING beats the greatest move of all time...

No, not the Burning Hammer, not the Stunner, not the Shooting Star Leg Drop or such shit...

*THE MOTHERFUCKING WORM!!!*










Eat that, UFO. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I liked Orton/Bryan too .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll probably check that match out at least.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm also feeling rather apprehensive about team wars at Battleground after the promo they played for it at NOC. It's not the theme I thought they would have used AT ALL. More of the Marine Cena bullshit instead of a war/actual battleground style theme that I incorrectly assumed it would be. That really sucks. We'll probably end up with Orton/Bryan again and no team war. I guess they're holding it for SS.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

The Lady Killer said:


> ^ fuck that's awesome. He needs to start doing that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jesus Christ.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

So bryan/viper is the only thing to check out from the show ? And it was "solid at best" ?

Doesn't surprise me though, They don't have chemistry at all, they were 1/4 on TV this year, with their smackdown match being the only good one. Orton is just not a good MAIN EVENT worker, hes just not and has not ever been tbh


----------



## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

Bryan/Orton is alright, but whenever Orton was in control it was downright boring.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Agreed. Orton's control work was pretty crummy. Put the guy in the ring with the best FIP around and he still can't manage anything compelling. The heel turn and the Corporation angle breathed new life into Randy but now I remember how he wrestles as a heel. Garvin stomp + chinlock = kill me now.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll pass on bryan/viper tbh, just see what happens on raw

When has Orton's control portion ever been good ? 2011


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> Agreed. Orton's control work was pretty crummy. Put the guy in the ring with the best FIP around and he still can't manage anything compelling. The heel turn and the Corporation angle breathed new life into Randy but now I remember how he wrestles as a heel. Garvin stomp + chinlock = kill me now.


Indeed. I'd forgotten how mundane heel Orton's control segments could be, because of how lazy he was as a babyface.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm assuming Orton gets the belt back tonight. Either in a match (with a quick count) or the decision is overturned. Either way as much as I like Bryan it makes no sense to put the title on him yet. He needs to chase it a little bit. Maybe win it at TLC or Rumble.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I'll pass on bryan/viper tbh, just see what happens on raw
> 
> When has Orton's control portion ever been good ? 2011


Yea he was very good for most of 2011, he got downright lethargic at times in 2012-2013. He'd have some good moments but those would get over shadowed by him consistently performing below average in a lot of his TV matches. It's because the guy is such an athletic freak that his laziness gets to me at times. He has no excuse in the world not to knock it out of the park 8 times out of 10. But for whatever reason he doesn't and it leaves us the fans wondering wtf his problem is. I guess he deserves a bit of a pass for his funk in 2012-2013 because his marriage was ending in an ugly divorce. 

I haven't seen his NOC match yet so I'm going to reserve judgment on that. 

I'm pissed Ryback got introduced as the new Heyman guy. Even though the chances were less than slim, I was hoping and praying Cesaro got that spot. He deserves it more than anyone, and Punker vs Cesaro would be :mark: :mark:

WWE is just trolling us now. I hate when they do that. There is no reason in the world they should spoil Bryan's finally winning the title by booking the win like shit. I don't care if he gets stripped and the win is stricken from the books, he has still raised the belt twice now and it's gonna leave his final payoff lacking in raw emotion.

How hard is it for WWE to just book Bryan to finally win the title at Royal Rumble, then have Punk win the Rumble and face Bryan at Mania in an amazing baby face match? That's what 90% of the fan base wants...this isn't rocket science you know...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

9 times out of 10 I detest RVD's offense.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> 9 times out of 10 I detest RVD's offense.


Only 9? :hmm:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Only 9? :hmm:


I said 9 to be safe. The 1 is if I'm drunk or high or both, and even then it's still a maybe.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hopefully we'll get a great RAW to balance out whatever the fuck was on last night a la wrestlemania this year



Doubt it though


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

In a wrasslin' mood, and the year of choice for tonight is 2008. Any suggestions? TV gems or PPV classics, I don't mind, just hit me with them. No Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, though.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HHH/Jeff Hardy from No Mercy. They had like 2 other really good matches that year, too, but I have forgotten the events.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Matt Hardy Vs Mark Henry - 8/19, No Mercy 2008.

Finlay Vs Mark Henry - Armageddon

:henry1


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching Hardy/Punk SS 09 for the first time

I'm guessing this was the best of the feud, are the others worth checking out?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You can always go for the ever so glorious hbk/flair, after that I'd recommend taker/featus and the punk/batista series

Watching orton/bryan from last night because I'm bored, its decent, but its ALL Bryan in this one, not even blindly bashing Orton here, just the pace when he is in controls drops so much, and I mean he sometimes throws the worst punches EVER, They really should let Lawler reteach him, and spend time with him seriously

@smitty its decent, but their sd cage is WAYYYYYY better


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> In a wrasslin' mood, and the year of choice for tonight is 2008. Any suggestions? TV gems or PPV classics, I don't mind, just hit me with them. No Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, though.


Taker vs Edge at Mania (the most underrated Streak match)
Taker vs Edge HiaC at Summerslam
Taker vs Festus (someone just recommended this to me and I absolutely adore it. Spectacular)

Pretty much anything Taker in 08' and you're good to go sir.


You've prolly seen those matches though, I'd warrant.

Edit-Redskins. I always though Ortons punches were solid, when he mounts someone in the corner and starts throwing punches to the forehead he sometimes looks like he's beating the day lights outta dudes. Is he really that bad against Bryan? I need to watch this for myself, if you have a moment and could PM me the link to where you are watching the match, it would be much appreciated sir.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was Kozlov/Festus in 2008 too? Assuming so. GO WATCH THAT.

Currently watching JD 2000 :mark:. Probably won't finish it tonight, gotta be up early so doubt I'll attempt the Iron Man until the morning. Will give me something to do while I wait for Raw to download .


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> So bryan/viper is the only thing to check out from the show ? And it was "solid at best" ?
> 
> Doesn't surprise me though, They don't have chemistry at all, they were 1/4 on TV this year, with their smackdown match being the only good one. *Orton is just not a good MAIN EVENT worker, hes just not and has not ever been tbh*


I don't agree. I don't know what of his track record makes you say that, but he's delivered more times than not in his ME programs.

It's a shame he didn't seem to have chemistry with Bryan, but it happens. Sometimes people don't click.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Redskins:Gotta check out the SD cage soon, I have a ton of stuff on DVD I need to watch so It may be a while.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Taker vs Edge at Mania (the most underrated Streak match)
> Taker vs Edge HiaC at Summerslam
> Taker vs Festus (someone just recommended this to me and I absolutely adore it. Spectacular)
> 
> ...


You see the punches he threw againsit Goldust when he was mounted ? :lmao you could see he literally punches his own hand, it looked like he was clapping, bad work but hte camera guy, some there good, sometimes you can REALLy tell their air punches


samizayn said:


> I don't agree. I don't know what of his track record makes you say that, but he's delivered more times than not in his ME programs.
> 
> It's a shame he didn't seem to have chemistry with Bryan, but it happens. Sometimes people don't click.


If you could name some, I may just not seen it, I'm talking ME top of the card matches, only one I can think of is LMS with HHH, a cena match BP ?, did one of those taker matches me ?



smitty915 said:


> Redskins:Gotta check out the SD cage soon, I have a ton of stuff on DVD I need to watch so It may be a while.


I know your on netflix as well, its on the cage dvd if its still there


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think the cage DVD is gone . I'll just watch it on Youtube or maybe even buy the DVD if it looks good. 

They really need to add wrestling shit to netflix


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> If you could name some, I may just not seen it, I'm talking ME top of the card matches, only one I can think of is LMS with HHH, a cena match BP ?, did one of those taker matches me ?


Oh, you mean like literal, legitimate MEing as in the last match? I don't really know what card placement has to do with match quality though. I wasn't a huge fan of his vs Cena series, but I consider his vs Christian series a ME feud and that was great. I'm not 100% on Orton's career so I don't know what matches he's had and which ones have gone on last, but in the case of matches with top guys/top tier calibre programs then he has quite a lot to his name.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I listened to Cal and watched Festus/Kozlov. Since that I've watched 4 Festus matches in the space of 15-20 minutes and they're so much fucking fun. Gallows/Festus is an underrated cat, for sure.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

samizayn said:


> Oh, you mean like literal, legitimate MEing as in the last match? I don't really know what card placement has to do with match quality though. I wasn't a huge fan of his vs Cena series, but I consider his vs Christian series a ME feud and that was great. I'm not 100% on Orton's career so I don't know what matches he's had and which ones have gone on last, but in the case of matches with top guys/top tier calibre programs then he has quite a lot to his name.


I mean like the biggest feud/story going into the ppv, the main storyline


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I listened to Cal


Take notes, people.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> In a wrasslin' mood, and the year of choice for tonight is 2008. Any suggestions? TV gems or PPV classics, I don't mind, just hit me with them. No Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, though.


Taker/Show No Mercy and Cyber Sunday if you're in the mood for two badasses slugging it out.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton never really had good chemistry with either of the three big main event faces from his peak (Batista, Cena, HHH). He did have fantastic chemistry with the likes of HBK, Benoit, Christian, and Edge. There's very little middle ground with the guy; either you work well with him or you don't.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You want TWO MINUTES of fun? Watch this. I challenge someone to find a more FUN two minute match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why have I been unaware of a Show/Festus match until now? I BLAME YOU ALL.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This is my favorite 2 minute match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Taker/Show No Mercy and Cyber Sunday if you're in the mood for two badasses slugging it out.


That feud was fucking awesome.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wait, people actually listen to Cal? Next you're gonna tell me that people actually care about his CAL scale! Oh shucks you know I'm kidding Cal 

Anyway, I want something fun to watch. Something without psychology. Something with lots of highspots. Just something fun dammit! Anyone got any recommendations?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^Punk / Mysterio matches from 2010?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Wait, people actually listen to Cal? Next you're gonna tell me that people actually care about his CAL scale! Oh shucks you know I'm kidding Cal
> 
> Anyway, I want something fun to watch. Something without psychology. Something with lots of highspots. Just something fun dammit! Anyone got any recommendations?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> Wait, people actually listen to Cal? Next you're gonna tell me that people actually care about his CAL scale! Oh shucks you know I'm kidding Cal
> 
> Anyway, I want something fun to watch. Something without psychology. Something with lots of highspots. Just something fun dammit! Anyone got any recommendations?


John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne - 4/14/09


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watching early 2006 WWE ignites my dislike of Rey Mysterio. I hated his Eddie Guerrero memorial run so much. His title run was awful as well.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> John Morrison vs. Evan Bourne - 4/14/09


Watching this now. MORRISON. :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Best John Morrison singles match as a heel, IMO. LOVE IT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Best John Morrison match not against Sheamus and involving a ladder.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *Has Cesaro ever done the UFO in WWE? People would lose their shits when he starts doing that on guys like Langston.*


No, not yet. Was hoping he would have vs Kingston or Dolph but hopefully SOON. Waterslide hasn't been seen since vs Sheamus last year iirc too. </3


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Dark Church said:


> Watching early 2006 WWE ignites my dislike of Rey Mysterio. I hated his Eddie Guerrero memorial run so much. His title run was awful as well.


Lies. Blasphemy.

Anyway, that Festus vs Show match was awesome, as was Henry vs Benoit. I'm gonna go with Festus vs Show as the better 2 minute match by the slimmest of margins.

My favorite "fun" match is either Benoit vs Angle Raw Cage match or Angle vs Shane KoR. You want FUN? Shane getting his cracked open on concrete then wheeled down on an equipment box might be the very definition of it.

Also, for anyone that has seen it, Blitzkrieg vs Rey Nitro 99' is tons of fun.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Best John Morrison match not against Sheamus and involving a ladder.


vs Mysterio on SD is up there for me as well.

edit Damn, I forgot how stiff Morrison was as a heel. :mark: Kinda reminds me of Del Rio's current aggression.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Any match in which one man punts another in the eye socket needs thoroughly pimping.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't forget about the first Morrison vs Bourne match from 2008 with the SICK finish. :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh man Cena vs Punk is on next in the Punk set :mark:

Everyone must buy this shit


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Don't forget about the first Morrison vs Bourne match from 2008 with the SICK finish. :mark:


I don't recall this. Must find now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

John Morrison vs Evan Bourne 9/9/08

quality is kind of shit, but see if one of the other links next to it can be better. Nonetheless, here it is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ECW 08 so far is terrible. TERRIBLE. Jan and Feb are one XWT now. Punk Vs CHAVO GUERRERO JR is them main event for 4 out of the first 5 shows :| And the one where they don't main event as a match they have a Chavo celebration segment with Punk attacking him. SOMEONE MAKE IT STOP. THAT triple threat match happens during this time too. We also get the beginning of the rise of Kofi :|.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol @ "rise". You know he never rose to be anything, Cal. 

And I know I don't hate Chavo, so that portion doesn't sound bad to me. Maybe the matches could suck, but I'd have to see them all over again. GULF OF MEXICO.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone boycotting RAW tonight? :lol. 

I'll be watching reluctantly, if its shit I'll just do something else


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I honestly hate Chavo.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> John Morrison vs Evan Bourne 9/9/08
> 
> quality is kind of shit, but see if one of the other links next to it can be better. Nonetheless, here it is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chavo was way better than Punk in 2008. Punk was kind of sucky in WWE before turning heel. Maybe, IDR his pre-heel 2009. 

I really don't get how everyone hates Chavo. It was kind of awesome when two or three people did but now it's spread and has become BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT, SAYS I.


Currently downloading 2010 PPV matches. Well trying to download them, when did JDownloader turn to crap?

EDIT - No, seriously. Please, start downloading. Fucking. Move. Now.

EDIT AGAIN - What the fuck is with this program now? Fuck off. Fucking SD Elimination Chamber gets up to a certain number and freezes. Piece of shit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are you calling me a sheep, Yeah?!? I'VE ALWAYS HATED THAT BORING FUCK.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Y'know, for as smart as Heyman is he was absolutely stupid during that match against Punk. It's a No-DQ match, so why don't the both of them rock up with sledgehammers/chairs/something and go to town on Punk? Instead, we had Heyman cowering in fright while Axel (somewhat) held his own for a portion of the match.

Both Bryan and Titus(!) were fun but they couldn't save the train-wreck.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I really havent seen enough Chavo to pass judegment tbh, i dont think Ive ever seen a match of his


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Chavo was way better than Punk in 2008. Punk was kind of sucky in WWE before turning heel. Maybe, IDR his pre-heel 2009.
> 
> I really don't get how everyone hates Chavo. It was kind of awesome when two or three people did but now it's spread and has become BULLSHIT. BULLSHIT, SAYS I.
> 
> ...


I don't hate Chavo at all. I thought he was great in Los Guerreros and I also loved his singles matches with Rey. He's not one of my favorites or anything but Chavo from 02'-08' was better than almost half the current WWE roster. That's not saying much but still. Chavo>>>>>Heath Slater, Miz, Axel, Jinder Mahal, Kofi, R Truth, Barrett, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hard for me to put Chavo over like that now b/c the guy is a walking pile of crap. For example > Barrett. FUCK that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Lady Killer said:


> Are you calling me a sheep, Yeah?!? I'VE ALWAYS HATED THAT BORING FUCK.


If you are a sheep it's no wonder WOOLCOCK sends me all those PMs asking me if I think 'TLK is into him'. I tried telling him Lilian Garcia had first dibs but he wouldn't listen. I think he said 'melons to that fooking plonker'.

IDK I never really saw anybody hate Chavo until vivalabrave did. Even if everybody hated Chavo before that (and I'm assuming they did unless viva has brainwash powers which means what I suspect to be true IS in fact true), it didn't really become a hugely vocal thing until then. I mean I have no doubt Cal's always hated him and wasn't following Mike, but it didn't seem like hating Chavo and talking him down at every point was his lifelong goal like it is now (DON'T DENY IT). Which I thought was kind of great like how he hated the Rock forever. Then Cal brings it over here and it seems like everyone but me and Cody completely hate him. The Rock comparison kind of fits, Cal hating Rock forever was cool and even as a Rock fan I wouldn't give it up for the UNIVERSE, but it became less cool once everyone starts hating the Rock (thought I'm like 100% positive that has literally nothing to do with anybody hating him and has everything to do with the Rock being shitty for his last bunch of appearances). I'm not trying to call anybody a sheep and maybe my point should have been that everyone's now more vocal about their Chavo hate than before instead of just hating him more, IDK. I can kind of see where that comes from. I've always liked Meng but I didn't make a habit of bringing him up every tenth post until I found out there was another like me who loves delving into Mengness (you know who you are, Rock316AE :mark.



Cactus Jack said:


> Chavo>>>>>Heath Slater, Miz, Axel, Jinder Mahal, Kofi, R Truth, Barrett, etc.


I'd honestly rate him over people like HHH. I may lose eBuddies over that, but screw it. It must be said. Sacrifices must be made. For Chavo, a wrestler that I only 'am a bit of a fan of'. Must be done.


The SD EC literally cannot download. I miss when jdownloader ruled my world.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Title held up? WWE's ploy to buy the next/new PPV. Those fuckers haha.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MENG.

Your point about The Rock is spot on. At least, it is for me. 2004 was the last time I cared. Feels like eons ago.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

The last time Rock was great was in 2011. 2012-13 Rock felt like Dwayne Johnson forgot what made the character great in the first place. He stopped wearing the shades, stopped referring himself in 3rd person and generally smiled and thanked the crowd a lot (which is unlike the 98-2002 Rock).

Ziggler vs Ambrose again lol.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Rah said:


> Y'know, for as smart as Heyman is he was absolutely stupid during that match against Punk. It's a No-DQ match, so why don't the both of them rock up with sledgehammers/chairs/something and go to town on Punk? Instead, we had Heyman cowering in fright while Axel (somewhat) held his own for a portion of the match.
> 
> Both Bryan and Titus(!) were fun but they couldn't save the train-wreck.


I'm hoping they go with the angle that it was all Ryback that did this. I don't think Heyman's going to say that this was his plan all along. I'm hoping Ryback decided that night that he was going to be the "Big Paul Heyman Guy" and that Heyman hadn't picked him before the match. 

I didn't think the show was that bad last night. The undercard as a whole was really average but I cared about a Divas match for the first time in a while and the main event kept me entertained. Also I had a great meal at Buffalo Wild Wings with my brother and sister while watching the show and that has to count for something.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Maybe the Rock will come back and win the WWE title at Battleground.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★ for the Ambrose/Ziggler match. Ziggler was great throughout the match but I just can't get into Ambrose's control segments.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't see how anybody can get into Wade Barrett, the guy is beyond dull. He can work a decent match, whoop dee fucking do. Plenty of guys can do that. Wades one of the few who can put me to sleep while working a quality match BECAUSE I JUST DON'T GIVE A FUCK. Shame too. Seems like a decent chap and he definitely tries hard. Ill take Chavito over him any day and twice on Sundays. I'd take Titus O'Neil over him too.

Wade needs either a repackaging or a brain transplant with someone interesting. Maybe then my mind won't automatically shut off when I hear the first strings of "God Save the Queen".


Edit- Summer Rae's outfit! Good lord! :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Speaking of Barrett, were his recent matches with Bryan any good?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Speaking of Barrett, were his recent matches with Bryan any good?


The cage match is pretty good

Watching this hbk/razor house show match zep upload, first download I have every made, happy with myself


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> I don't see how anybody can get into Wade Barrett, the guy is beyond dull. He can work a decent match, whoop dee fucking do. Plenty of guys can do that. Wades one of the few who can put me to sleep while working a quality match BECAUSE I JUST DON'T GIVE A FUCK. Shame too. Seems like a decent chap and he definitely tries hard. Ill take Chavito over him any day and twice on Sundays. I'd take Titus O'Neil over him too.
> 
> Wade needs either a repackaging or a brain transplant with someone interesting. Maybe then my mind won't automatically shut off when I hear the first strings of "God Save the Queen".
> 
> ...





Saint Dick said:


> Speaking of Barrett, were his recent matches with Bryan any good?


The Cage match was a very solid TV match, mostly because of Danielson but Barrett wasn't bad at all. His in ring skills don't bother me, it's his character and the way he works matches that does. He's a British ADR without the Vince McMahon Super Deluxe Push Package.


Edit- Stephanie McMahon is now an official honorary member of the Diane Lane Allstars. She just keeps getting hotter as the years go by. I bet Cal is just FAP'n away over there I'm England.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Dusty needs to be on WWE TV permanently. The man is a genius. That was/is a beautiful segment


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Dusty/Steph/Show segment OWNED. 

Bryan/HHH/Orton stuff has been good too. Night of Champions was the worst PPV of the year but at least they're following it up with a strong Raw.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Dusty/Steph/Show segment OWNED.
> 
> Bryan/HHH/Orton stuff has been good too. Night of Champions was the worst PPV of the year but at least they're following it up with a strong Raw.


That Dusty segment was just some tremendous stuff. I can't wait for Big Show to finally get his payback. He is an excellent performer man, he was actually crying when he hit Dusty.

Big Show, Cody, Dolph vs The Shield at Battleground? Please?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God bless you Dusty Rhodes. What are some of his best matches?

Neighborhood Punk mark here to speak about his pre-2009 heel run. It's true that the guy didn't hit his stride at that point in his career, but he does have a lot of nice gems in 2008. His 2007 was riddled with some poor outings mixed in with some nice stuff, but his 2008 was largely filled with decent to good matches. Not much that was horrible, but nothing truly breathtaking either.

LOL at that Diva's match. What a debacle.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Quick non-RAW topic here, thoughts on these DVDS?

the Eddie Gurrero DVD match set
History of the WWE championship


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Orton, fucking punt someone for the love of God! 





smitty915 said:


> Quick non-RAW topic here, thoughts on these DVDS?
> 
> the Eddie Gurrero DVD match set
> History of the WWE championship


Own them both....enjoy them. Both Eddie sets are great.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Miz's Dad would totally be in Tawwwwwd and Shannon's stable.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:lmao:lmao Haven't laughed that hard in a while. Orton was trying really hard to make a statement and Miz's no sold the shit out of it. 

Good show so far.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That Orton/Miz brawl was the best thing I've seen Orton do in a LONG time. Hopefully we get some of that aggression from him in his matches now.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This Heyman guy makes me so ANGRY!

Quick....someone grab the mic from Ryback before he hurts himself.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at Paul Heyman calling Ryback a beautiful man. And now Ryback calling Punk a bully. This is too funny. :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

That promo was actually really good. Heyman is fucking gold on the mic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Punk v Ryback could be good. I dug their TLC earlier this year and the change in dynamic with Punk being the gutsy babyface and Ryback playing the monster heel should work better. It's like a mini version of Punk/Lesnar. A lesser, shittier version obviously because Ryback doesn't compare favorably to Brock but you get what I'm trying to say. Bryan/Ryback Raw 6/3 was great so this has potential.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Really want this punk/heyman stuff to be over with, I'd rather place punk in a WHC feud to elevate the belt greatly. Ryback kinda fits in the role IMO so Im not mad at that, he just cant wrestle


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

^^^
Totally agree with all of that. If they are not going to make the WHC mean something again just get rid of it or unify the titles.....at Mania.....with Punk and Bryan.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

RANDY SAVAGE!!! RANDY SAVAGE!!! RANDY SAVAGE!!!

Hell yes, Ohio!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> So, is there anything worth watching from last night? Doesn't sound like it.


As I'l tell everyone else, just watch Del Rio/RVD and Orton/Bryan to form your own opinion on them. I thought Del Rio/RVD was MOTN with a stupid ass finish while others on here thought it was god awful. Admittedly I've always had a soft spot for RVD though...



FluxCapacitor said:


> In a wrasslin' mood, and the year of choice for tonight is 2008. Any suggestions? TV gems or PPV classics, I don't mind, just hit me with them. No Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, though.


MYSTERIO VS. KANE



sharkboy22 said:


> Wait, people actually listen to Cal? Next you're gonna tell me that people actually care about his CAL scale! Oh shucks you know I'm kidding Cal
> 
> Anyway, I want something fun to watch. Something without psychology. Something with lots of highspots. Just something fun dammit! Anyone got any recommendations?


RVD vs. Christian Ladder match from RAW '03. All kinds of fun.



redskins25 said:


> I really havent seen enough Chavo to pass judegment tbh, i dont think Ive ever seen a match of his


Check out his matches with Rey to start on a positive note and get an opinion of him. Specifically No Way Out '04 & Great American Bash '04. Other than that... well I can't say I've seen a lot of great stuff from the guy. 



Saint Dick said:


> Speaking of Barrett, were his recent matches with Bryan any good?


Amazed that no one mentioned this but their No DQ match from RAW on the go home show to Summerslam was HELLA fun. Overbooked crazyness.



funnyfaces1 said:


> God bless you Dusty Rhodes. What are some of his best matches?


I've truly not seen much from the guy that I actually enjoyed but I do recall a Cage match with Flair being pretty good. Wanna say Starrcade '84 maybe? Think it's on the old Bloodbath Steel Cage Matches dvd.



smitty915 said:


> Quick non-RAW topic here, thoughts on these DVDS?
> 
> the Eddie Gurrero DVD match set
> History of the WWE championship


History of the WWE Championship is honestly one of the best releases I think the WWE has ever made. Look at that fucking lineup, loaded with some of the best maches in history.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/Reigns was really fucking good. Better than Bryan/Rollins imo. 

Great Raw all around. (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Reigns: ****1/2*

It will be a damn shame of Roman Reigns doesn't become a megastar. Dude just "gets" it. That suicide dive reversal was Cesaro levels of awesomeness.

Great episode of RAW with lots of good segments. That ending especially was done perfectly. Really goes to show how good a show can be when you actually have babyfaces that are easy to support.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Only a matter of time before Reigns is one of the top heels in the company. If he has even decent mic skills he will go far. 

Best Dusty match? Anything involving Sapphire.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Bryan/Reigns was really fucking good. Better than Bryan/Rollins imo.


(Y)x2


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Thank God Reigns seems capable of working good singles matches unlike Ambrose whose 6 man tag performances haven't translated to his solo work.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Thank God Reigns seems capable of working good singles matches unlike Ambrose whose 6 man tag performances haven't translated to his solo work.


Agreed. I love me some Ambrose (those mic skills!) but he has not shown much yet in singles matches like Reigns and Rollins have.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Bryan/Reigns I wouldn't put above Bryan/Rollins... or a few other of Bryan's best matches with other guys (Orton, Ryback, Cesaro, etc.) 

It was really good though (I'd give it ***1/4). Bryan's just rolling along producing quality stuff week after week after week.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

No work tomorrow. Threw in the King of the Ring blu ray. Love this set and miss the hell out of this PPV.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I didn't love Bryan/Rollins as much as most. Agree with the Ryback and Cesaro matches being better than Bryan/Reigns.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I didn't love Bryan/Rollins as much as most. Agree with the Ryback and Cesaro matches being better than Bryan/Reigns.


Same, I would just have bryan/reigns >>>> bryan/ryback


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Finally saw Cesaro/Zayn 2 out 3 falls and all I can say is wow. Fantastic match, right up there with the best this year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Check out zayn/swaggie nxt saint dick, very very good match loved it


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Will do. If it's anywhere near as awesome as I thought Cesaro/Zayn III was then I'll love it too.


----------



## blink_41sum_182 (Apr 9, 2011)

Ambrose/Ziggler - *** 1/4
Bryan/Reigns - *** 1/2-*** 3/4

Bryan/Reigns really surprised me and the moment after was awesome. Ambrose/Ziggler had a better match on Raw than the PPV. Go figure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It might be too presumptive to say that Ziggler is among the best babyface workers in the world, but can we all agree that at the very least, he is among the most natural babyfaces today in the ring? Every little mannerism he does adds to the match as a whole. A little bit more refinement and he could make that next step to the top tier in the ring. And to think that there were people in this thread that foolishly criticized his ring work a few months ago (looking at you, Yeah1993).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Opening segment tonight was really good. Pretty much what we expected, but it was done well. Interested to see how Scott Armstrong comes back. ROAD DOGG perhaps?

Miz's dad no selling his son's attack is still :lmao:lmao

Ziggler/Ambrose tonight was a good bit better than last night. 

Thought Bryan/Reigns was really good. Really enjoyed Reigns by himself and yes, that suicide dive counter was really sweet. If this is what we can expect from Reigns in all singles matches, he's in good shape for a singles career.

DUSTY segment was terrific, up to Big Show coming out. As much as I :lmao every time he starts crying, it's getting to be a bit much. Dusty on the mic though was just terrific. 

Enjoyed the show as a whole, though Heyman/Ryback is whatever. As much as Heyman delivers no matter what he gets handed, this is become a joke. Punk does deserve better, and I can only hope they're just biding their time with him until the RTWM.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just posting this for those who "claim" that Orton can't talk on the mic.

Inb4 "this was 4 years ago though".


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> And to think that there were people in this thread that foolishly criticized his ring work a few months ago (looking at you, Yeah1993).


I'm still not sold on him, though I haven't really been watching anything. I'm hoping his 2010 wins me over when I get around to actually watching stuff for that. He's honestly a guy I want to like, but just don't.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It might be too presumptive to say that Ziggler is among the best babyface workers in the world, but can we all agree that at the very least, he is among the most natural babyfaces today in the ring? Every little mannerism he does adds to the match as a whole. A little bit more refinement and he could make that next step to the top tier in the ring. And to think that there were people in this thread that foolishly criticized his ring work a few months ago (looking at you, Yeah1993).


Despite only seeing a handful of babyface Ziggler matches I'm completely sold on the guy in that role. I've run out of superlatives for his performance at Payback and I thought he was brilliant against Cesaro on Main Event. You used the word 'natural' to describe him. Spot on. I was a fan of his heel work as well, even though he was sometimes guilty of lackluster control work, but wrestling as a face suits him down to the ground.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Ziggler needs a solid finisher, and have that finisher he uses be his secondary. His match Ambrose, I don't think his finisher ever looked so nicely executed. Ziggler can do it. I say give him solid booking for once, and let's see how it works. He can connect with time, and probably fast, it's been proven that people tune in to see him on a consistent basis.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Punk v Ryback could be good. I dug their TLC earlier this year and the change in dynamic with Punk being the gutsy babyface and Ryback playing the monster heel should work better. It's like a mini version of Punk/Lesnar. A lesser, shittier version obviously because Ryback doesn't compare favorably to Brock but you get what I'm trying to say. Bryan/Ryback Raw 6/3 was great so this has potential.


Don't ever put Brock and Ryback in the same sentence ever.......EVER.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ziggler should use the super kick. They clearly toyed with the idea of letting him do it last year and earlier this year, then just dropped it.



zep81 said:


> Don't ever put Brock and Ryback in the same sentence ever.......EVER.


You're right. That was blasphemous. 

I don't think Ryback's useless though. Maybe Bryan's ability to get good matches out of basically anyone has me blinded and he is useless but I feel like I've seen enough from him to suggest that he's not. I've enjoyed more Ryback matches this year than Randy Orton matches that's for sure.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Ziggler should use the super kick. They clearly toyed with the idea of letting him do it last year and earlier this year, then just dropped it.


Completely forgot about that. He executed it very nicely as well too at most times. If Miz can use the figure 4 as a submission finisher, I think Ziggler should start to get the super kick over. The only problem is, other people use it, like Usos, and Rio does a nice one.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, it would've suited him and his style perfectly but I guess they dropped the ball on that one. The Zig Zag works well enough though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bryan though, fuck.

Reigns and Rollins man, they're something else. I don't know what the fuck they did to be stuck wrasslin' the Uso's on every single fucking show but that's beside the point; Rollins and Reigns fucking rule the planet we call earth and they own it hard. Easily the best WWE tag team in a very, very fucking long time and it isn't even close... ASTOUNDING really. To take two unique elements and to combine them into something this unique is unheard of, from their carrying of the shitty Usos all the way down to their fantastic bouts with Bryan on a singles level, they've done nothing but deliver since their debut.

Sheamus & .... MARK HENRY Vs Rollins & Reigns for WM XXX please. (RANDOM I KNOW. Doesn't have to be that but some awesome face team)

ACTUALLY FUCK MANIA. I want Cesaro/Swagger Vs Rollins/Reigns. Fuck the babyface/heel dynamics for one match and just let them create a unique story, better than sticking them with the fucking USO's every week.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, DAT praise on Reigns. Was Bryan/Reigns anything better or close to either Bryan/Rollins or Bryan/Ambrose? (I haven't seen Raw yet ).

Also, heard Ambrose/Ziggler was good too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Wow, DAT praise on Reigns. Was Bryan/Reigns anything better or close to either Bryan/Rollins or Bryan/Ambrose? (I haven't seen Raw yet ).
> 
> Also, heard Ambrose/Ziggler was good too.



It was fabulous, I still have Rollins/Bryan as bein a bit better, but it was still an absolutely fantastic outing for Reigns. The dude is a natural, I can't get enough of him. From his mannerisms to his ring work to his look, the dude is a total package.

That Rollins though, man. What a freaking great wrestler.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I really think its time we get a Bryan Doc/match set a la punk's in 2012.

He has a ton of good matches to include, possibly some NXT stuff.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Reigns/Bryan was better than any Rollins/Bryan imo.

DAT CLOTHESLINE


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, I'm just gonna say it. I didn't really enjoy Bryan/Reigns much. I just find that, as of late, Bryan's work is so bush league. His selling just isn't what I like to see. He plays dead whenever his opponent is on the offense but completely neglects everything once he's on the offense.

Throughout the match Reigns kept going back to the leg. Bryan, on the other hand was flying and shit but not giving a fuck. I noticed it with his match with Ambrose last week as well. Ambose gave him about 3 or 4 shoulder thrusts in the corner, gave him an irish whip, and of course Bryan does his signature bck flip into the elbow but not once did he ever sell the effects of the shoulder thrusts. It's those little things that irk me dammit!

I don't know, I think Bryan needs to sell a little more on the offense. I like the whole shaking and thing but without consistent selling it means nothing to me. Also, damn did he dominate that match way too much at the start. Every time Reigns looked to go into heat Daniel went right back on the offense. And again, not selling the effects of the previous attacks. Oh well, that's just my $0.02


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It's nice to see Reigns FINALLY getting some praise. I've been saying since day one he was going to go places. Too bad it took Ambrose stinking up the joint every week for people to finally realize lol.

Speaking of Ambrose, what is this guy's problem? I thought his match with Ziggler last night was pretty solid. He does some little things here and there that add to his match and character. For example, raking Ziggler's back on the top rope. But for some reason, he hasn't been putting out the matches that meets expectations.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Enjoyed Reigns/Bryan this week but didn't think it was great or anything. I was disappointed with it tbh, but that was mainly due to expectations I had for it. BUT I don't think it was entirely their fault. All the time during the match, the focus was on Orton, NOC, and the title stripping from earlier in the night. Give these 2 the same amount of time with the focus being JUST on their match and I think they can easily, easily deliver something special. Was like they knew the match didn't really "matter" so Bryan was just out there to stay strong looking for the most part given all the shit that keeps happening to him lol.

Crazy to think that when THE SHIELD first showed up, Ambrose was like the #1 guy and Reigns was probably #3. Now the roles have completely reversed thanks to Ambrose sucking in singles matches and Reigns becoming increasingly AWESOME. I think the hype behind the guy + his FCW matches with the likes of Rollins, Regal and Sandow (everyone should check out the Sandow match btw, great heel vs heel stuff) blinded me and others into assuming he was automatically the #1 guy. He still has a great presence though and he can work the mic better than the other 2 (not that it matters atm because they don't get any mic time these days), so no doubt WWE will keep him around and push him beyond the US title, but I'd stake my... uhh, something not very important... on Reigns being the first out of the 3 to gain a world title.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, I'm just gonna say it. I didn't really enjoy Bryan/Reigns much. I just find that, as of late, Bryan's work is so bush league. His selling just isn't what I like to see. He plays dead whenever his opponent is on the offense but completely neglects everything once he's on the offense.
> 
> Throughout the match Reigns kept going back to the leg. Bryan, on the other hand was flying and shit but not giving a fuck. I noticed it with his match with Ambrose last week as well. Ambose gave him about 3 or 4 shoulder thrusts in the corner, gave him an irish whip, and of course Bryan does his signature bck flip into the elbow but not once did he ever sell the effects of the shoulder thrusts. It's those little things that irk me dammit!
> 
> I don't know, I think Bryan needs to sell a little more on the offense. I like the whole shaking and thing but without consistent selling it means nothing to me. Also, damn did he dominate that match way too much at the start. Every time Reigns looked to go into heat Daniel went right back on the offense. And again, not selling the effects of the previous attacks. Oh well, that's just my $0.02


I haven't noticed this in many of Bryan's recent matches, but maybe I should take another look. Long-term consistent selling is a very important aspect of wrestling, and nobody (including Bryan) should be excused from forgetting about prior limbwork. It's one of the reasons why I don't have Rey Mysterio as high on my list of greatest wrestlers ever as much as everyone else.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Yes! Yes! Yes! Finally, people are realizing the awesomeness of Roman GOAT Reigns.

But I don't get it though. Ambrose was so awesome in FCW. What's the prob now?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

sharkboy22 said:


> Yes! Yes! Yes! Finally, people are realizing the awesomeness of Roman GOAT Reigns.
> 
> But I don't get it though. Ambrose was so awesome in FCW. What's the prob now?


Well his opponents haven't been up to scratch. Kane, Kofi, RVD, even Ziggler to an extent. Plus in FCW he likely had a LOT more freedom to do whatever he wanted in his matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ambrose seems like a guy that works best when his singles matches are based on a pre-existing storyline of some sort that he can work with. You can't really expect him to wrestle against some random guy and get something great since so much of his skills come from his ability to integrate storylines with in-ring work.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ambrose seems like a guy that works best when his singles matches are based on a pre-existing storyline of some sort that he can work with. You can't really expect him to wrestle against some random guy and get something great since so much of his skills come from his ability to integrate storylines with in-ring work.


I'd say this. I was thinking this as well. If you look at his prior work his best matches are those in which there's some storyline going into it. He's a great story teller in the ring and it's one of the reasons why I became a fan of his. 

I think it's safe to say that we should expect nothing but average matches from Ambrose once it's TV match. That's not a good thing though.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Ambrose was my top dog coming into The Shield angle. He's slowly moved all the way down to bottom position. Rollins jumped to #1 very quickly. I was never a big fan of Tyler Black, but something just clicked for me (and him) down in FCW. Then Reigns started to impress me more and more, while all Ambrose could bring was the mic work that I was already familiar with.

It's a little unfair because Ambrose hasn't been given the opportunity to fully exploit his best attributes, but then again, who'd think that Reigns would outpace Ambrose in the ring? For what these guys have been given, I'd say that Rollins and Reigns have been equally impressive, while Ambrose has underwhelmed - partially due to the hype, partially due to his bland work in the ring, partially due to his lack of mic time.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Eh, Rollins was the #1 guy in the TLC match last year. He's still the #1 guy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2000*

LIFE SUUUUCKS, AND THEN YOU DIE!


We've had matches start PPV's. We've had in ring promos start PPV's. Neither are the case here. Instead we get... A BACKSTAGE SEGMENT. Vince McMahon giving a big speech to the regime. Then Brisco gets attacked because he's the hardcore champion. Then HBK walks down a hall way. EXCITING STUFF.

*2 Cool & Rikishi Vs Edge & Christian & Kurt Angle*

Kurt's been getting a lot of attention from teenage girls. Cody now wishes he was Kurt.

Poor Kurt. Stumbles throughout his entire promo. It amuses me though.

THE JUG BAND~!

Rikishi setting up 2 Cool and sending them out to do butt splashes in the corner always makes me smile. You know that video with... uhhh... dammit I can't remember who exactly. Big Japanese star. Anyway, there's a video with like, everyone all in a line to take a SLAP TO THE FACE from this guy, just because he's a fucking legend. We should have something similar with everyone lined up so Rikishi can spank their arse and whip them into the corner for a running bum splash. Would be the greatest thing ever.

Comedy spot after comedy spot here, ending with quite possibly the biggest, the best, the single most awesome comedy moment in the history of wrestling...










GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! HIS PANTS CAME DOWN! AS GOD AS MY WITNESS, HIS WORM HIS SMALL!

Scotty jumping into the ring to laugh and make fun of GMS' penis is amazing. 

OMG I JUST NOTICED TEDDY LONG. He's the referee. For a tag match. A six man tag match. I'm surprised he's able to move around with the obvious hard on he's got from being involved in this contest. I bet his worm isn't small.

Angle gets a face full of the Kish's Crack. Edge tries to show off his worm but Scotty's beats him. ASS. WORM. PENIS. SEX.

End to the match is botched I think. Angle breaks up the pin but Teddy blows his load early and the match ends.

Ton of fun, plenty of awesome little spots and moments, and a molten crowd. I still don't think it's the most amazing thing ever, but good god it's fun. Plus, you know, PANTS FALLING DOWN!!!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


WELL LORD KNOWS, IF IT'S ON THE INTERNET, IT'S GOT TO BE TRUE.


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Dean Malenko Vs Perry Saturn - WWF European Championship*

I LIKE PERRY SATURN. GUY COULD WATCH A TENNIS MATCH WITHOUT MOVING HIS HEAD :lmao.

Last match had a molten crowd. Think it's safe to say they all melted away because they don't give a fuck about this one lol.

How can 3 guys with this kind of talent have a match together and just SUCK? Miscommunications, botches, and some utter DUMB shit that makes no sense from a kayfabe standpoint in a triple threat match.

This match in 4 words: 3 guys hit moves.

Eddie retains the belt. The world doesn't care.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


:lmao at Brisco sneaking around backstage avoiding anyone incase they try to steal his title. :lmao at him shitting himself at a mirror. :lmao at him winning the belt by pinning Crash while he was asleep. God I miss the hardcore title.


*The Big Show Vs Shane McMahon - No Holds Barred*

WHICH WAY DID HE GO? WHICH WAY DID HE GO?

Thinking about it, Show didn't go anywhere. Like, quite literally. He gets taken out at the end of this match and gets stuck in OVW... which is conveniently located in the same place this PPV is taking place!

SHANE O'MAC. GIANT KILLER. SIMBA!

Big Show's "entertaining" gimmick theme is terrible.

TODD FOGLE... IS A ***!!! Ahh the days when signs weren't confiscated.

Show is kicking Shane's arse. Quite literally. Shane is doing the old Mr Perfect bumping thingy where he goes to all 4 sides of the ring and takes crazy backwards bumps. Not nearly as good as Mr Perfect but whatyagonnado?

BOSSMAN AND BUCHANAN. Big Show fucking POWERBOMBED THE BOSSMAN. T&A!!! WMD to the chairs! TRISH! FAP FAP! BIG SHOW TOSSERS HER RIGHT ONTO THE FACE OF T&A.

Damn Show just looks fucking UNSTOPPABLE. Shane is getting mauled. 

:lmao Show breaks off part of the JD stage, and really makes it out like it takes effort to lift it up. Test comes along and just fucking rips it off the ground like it weighs bugger all... because, you know, it does.

In the end it takes T&A, Bossman & Buchanan, Shane, a night stick, a speaker box dropped on his leg and a concrete block smashed over his head to finally put away the giant. And now he's off to OVW to learn how to work :lmao.

Tremendously awesome fun. Shane rules. Show Vs The World rules.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Intercontinental Championship Submission Match*

Man, Benoit was booked as a badass heel back in the day. HE'S the fucking champion and HE issued the challenge for the match with the title on the line. None of that cowardly heel bullshit where he gets forced into a match. Shame he technically never existed 8*D.

You know what I like about this? I actually don't remember who wins! Makes it a little more interesting to re-watch since I've forgotten the finish lol.

Fuck me, JR, the babyface announcer, is putting over Benoit, the heel, saying he perhaps favours the Crossface in this match!

JR: "Wait a minute... ARMBAR!" as Jericho applies an ARMBAR. Not sure if JR was making a reference to the ARMBAR promo, but the way he said it made it sound like he was lol. Make me smile either way lol .

This match is a SUBMISSION match. Where you can only win by SUBMISSION. So the obvious thing for people to do in a SUBMISSION match is try to apply SUBMISSION holds and win by SUBMISSION. Right? Well that's EXACTLY what they do. I know it seems simple and obvious, but how many times do we get stipulation matches where guys ignore the stipulation until like, the actual finish? Here, pretty much EVERYTHING they do is a SUBMISSION hold, or is a focused attack on the body part/parts that better serve their own SUBMISSION hold. It's smart, yes, and it's also GOOD.

ALCOHOLIC JERICHOHOLIC!

Benoit is made to look even MORE badass by coming into this match with a fucking KNEE INJURY, wearing a brace and everything. If he wins, and I'm starting to think he does, then fuck, they really put Benoit over here lol. Guess they already had the FL main event planned out.

Love how Benoit knows the knee injury could easily fuck him over, so any time Jericho goes for a leg hold he fights for his fucking LIFE to escape. Hell the first leg hold he gets caught in is a modified Walls of Jericho in the ropes, something that you could say he wasn't expecting and couldn't counter in time because, well, who the fuck would know their opponent was gonna do THAT? And he still fights his way out of it in the end, and while Jericho sees an opportunity to finish him off afterwards, Benoit seems even MORE FOCUSED to avoid any kind of leg holds, and HE DOES. Knowing that he is in trouble though, the Crippler quickly gets the Crossface applied finally and Jericho PASSES OUT. ALL HAIL BENOIT AND THE MONSTROUS PUT OVER JOB THEY JUST DID!!!

So yeah this is fucking good. Always been a fan of it and I'm glad it help up . Benoit was just a fucking BEAST throughout. 

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


:lmao the Brisco backstage stuff is awesome. Why on earth would he WANT to be hardcore champion still? 

:lmao at how HIGH HBK looks while The Rock is talking to him.


*Road Dogg & X-Pac Vs The Dudley Boys - Tag Team Tables Match*

Loved the DX theme during this time. Liking this song is about as "hip" as I ever got. Why couldn't I have been a teenager or something in the mid 70's? I love all the Rock music that started around that time and into the 80's. I'D HAVE BEEN SO FUCKING COOL .

The Dudley Boys bring their own table. And set it up near the top of the entrance ramp and just... leave it. No good all the way over there, guys! The Dudley Boys want to put Tori through a table. Wouldn't mind giving her wood myself.

:lmao Lawler is losing his mind. Only way to win this match is putting both opponents through a table. Last match was Submission only. So he asks if we've had a pin fall win so far tonight. Uhhh Jerry... first THREE matches. The previous match was the only one so far to not end in pin. You daft tit.

BUBBA'S GETTING WOOD AS WE SPEAK!!! While staring at Tori. LOL. Bubba Chubby.

One thing I hate about tag matches; the referees. They go into uber moron mode every damn time. Oh, a heel didn't make a tag while I wasn't looking but came into the ring anyway? That's cool. WHAT THE FUCK BABYFACE GUY? I DIDN'T SEE YOU MAKE A TAG, YOU GET YOUR FAT ASS BACK ON THAT APRON UNTIL I TELL YOU YOU CAN ENTER THE FUCKING RING!!!

PUMPHANDLE DROP off the steel steps through a table! Take that, Devon!

:lmao the referee gets too involved in the match, even though it's NO FUCKING DQ, so Bubba and Road Dogg double hip toss him through a table! Road Dogg looks pleased then gets punched in the face. Dudley's "win" the match but the ref is down. Ah well, time to put Tori through a table instead!

HARDCORE CHAMPION TIME! Brisco makes the save like a true hero, and Bubba goes through a table just as the referee wakes up to see it.

Fun stuff. Me likey. Better than their pile of utter shite dumpster/table match thingy.

:lmao Brisco staying behind to give the DX chop to Bubba is hilarious. Then he goes through a table.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


HIS JUDGMENT DAY IS COMING. HIS JUDGMENT DAY IS HERE! :mark:


*Triple H Vs The Rock - Special Guest Referee Shawn Michaels - 60 Minute WWF Title Iron Man Match*

Who likes short shorts? Shawn likes short shorts! SMUGGLING BANANA SHORTS.

HHH wants to win the match by himself so he sends everyone away. BET THAT WILL LAST! 

:lmao CHYNA IS MY DAD sign. She has a penis.

Who the fuck would have guessed I could sit through ONE HOUR of The Rock? And with HHH no less! Amazing that 2 guys I don't really care for have such great chemistry together.

Lawler seems to be on top of his game throughout this, really adding to the match on commentary with his insight on lasting an hour in the ring and shit. Love him analysing the first 10 minutes or so of this match, explaining what's smart to do and what isn't and WHY. 

Rock is like, actually pretty GOOD in this too. ROCK PRAISE ALERT! Don't worry, it's only 4pm. I'm not drunk. Yet. Yeah, this is probably Rock's best match performance wise. Hmmm... well between this and WM 19 Vs Austin. Might give the nod to WM 19 because I prefer that match to this. But yeah, Rock is good. I like how HE is the one to really grasp the smart wrestling needed for an hour long match. Yeah, that's probably how the match was laid out and shit, but still, Rock ran with his part and did extremely well.

Gets to the 30 minute mark and... RANDOM AE BRAWLING! Luckily both are knackered so they can't really go at it on the outside like they normally would. We get a pretty sweet looking back body drop on the floor though. HBK decides not to bother with double countouts, and rightfully so because they are pointless in a match like this lol.

THREE COUNT FROM A PILEDRIVER. This is now the GOAT match. :mark:

The falls are done really nicely in this one too. Some early falls happen from a Rock Bottom and a Pedigree. Finishers obviously. But as the time ticks away and both men become exhausted and worn down, we get falls from a Piledriver and a DDT. Both big impact moves, yeah, but by 2000 they were mostly just normal moves that most people did.

I also like how the falls play a part in how they structure the match too. Rock can retain on a draw, so HHH needs to make sure he's always at least 1 up on The Rock no matter what. So when HHH decks Rock with a chair and busts him open, getting DQ'd but picking up a couple of quick wins (one with a SLEEPER. Perfect!) to put him ahead AND have The Rock worn down like fuck, it's really a great piece of storytelling imo. I think that's one (of the many) reasons the HBK/Bret Iron Man didn't work. Not having any falls took away a lot of what they COULD have done.

PEDIGREE ON THE TABLE... BY THE ROCK! Table doesn't break so HHH so smashes his face into it :lmao. He blades and gets counted up, with 3:50 left! Rock only needs one more win to tie and retain his title. THE MCMAHON'S ARE BACK! STEPHANIE AND HER FAPNESS! YEY!

2 and a half minutes left, Rock takes out the McMahon's, Rock hits the spinebuster, the fans go crazy, Rock goes for the People's Elbow... and I swear HBK teases hitting Sweet Chin Music lol. Oh god how glorious would that have been (for a second time)? So Rock evens the score, but HBK is taken out afterwards and...

NOW BACK FROM THE DEAD.

IT'S... MY GOD IT'S THE UNDERTAKER!!! :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

The Undertaker absolutely annihilates the McMahon-Helmsley Faction, then takes down HHH with a chokeslam and a Tombstone! But HBK see's the chokeslam before the bell rings and DQ's The Rock... giving HHH another fall and the win overall! Lots of confusion over what happened at the end, but the home video version that was released in the UK (and the Tagged Classic DVD that I also have... and am watching this on lol) showed afterwards the clock counting down still while Undertaker chokeslams HHH AND shows HBK seeing it. No botch, nothing.

Undertaker's reaction to the end is great + he chases down HBK to the back. Undertaker is back for a minute and already teasing a match with HBK . 

Match is incredible still. Holds up more than I could have ever hoped. Not the best Iron Man match, which says a lot for the 2 I would put ahead of it (Lesnar/Angle and Rude/Steamboat). Rock puts in a career performance, HHH does too tbh. Undertaker return is EPIC. Not much I don't like about this one.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 17*​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Eulonzo said:


> Just posting this for those who "claim" that Orton can't talk on the mic.
> 
> Inb4 "this was 4 years ago though".


Eh. That promo was ok. Orton is very inconsistent on the mic no doubt about that. I'm not an Orton hater but heel is Orton is way more entertaining and hopefully last night was a sign of things to come.

Dolph should have been given the figure four not Miz. That is all. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Ambrose seems like a guy that works best when his singles matches are based on a pre-existing storyline of some sort that he can work with. You can't really expect him to wrestle against some random guy and get something great since so much of his skills come from his ability to integrate storylines with in-ring work.


This. Ambrose is never going to be confused with a guy who can give 5 star classic after 5 star classic. But his storytelling and psychology (if you will) will be his strong points in the future. Fans will be rooting for guys to get his hands on Ambrose. 

Also just wait until the Shield break up and go their own ways and Ambrose gets some mic time. Those not familiar with his mic skills watch this....Pillman meets Piper meets Jake Roberts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNGOY-jeYwI :mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUI6sJIBgjU


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Excited for Trips release in a week to finally see that Ironman Match with Rocky. Heard so much praise but hardly even knew it existed until like last year.  The whole year of 2000 just really seems like uncharted territory for myself besides a few essentials.



sharkboy22 said:


> Yes! Yes! Yes! Finally, people are realizing the awesomeness of Roman GOAT Reigns.
> 
> But I don't get it though. Ambrose was so awesome in FCW. What's the prob now?


I know you're excited and everything but people have been loving Reigns and talking about how big of a star he's gonna be since way back when at Elimination Chamber when he SPEARED the fuck out of Cena & Sheamus. Coined him as the next Batista. Superman punches, spears, and primal screams. All a joy to watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal, as always, great review. I loved that Jericho vs Benoit submission match myself. I can't believe you love that one yet you think their 2/3 Falls was a DUD. I'm waiting for Thy Kingdom Come to arrive at my house on 9/24 to see the IronMan for the first time. I do love Angle/Lesnar IronMan, so if this is anywhere near as good, I'm sure ill enjoy it too. As long as it in no way resembles HBK/Hart :side:

What are your thoughts on Benoit-Trips IronMan? I haven't seen that one either, I'm wondering if it is worth sitting through. Keep in mind spot heavy matches with mediocre story telling don't bother me as some other people. I'm not all about DAT WORKRATE, but ill take a match with good action and excitement over a slow paced more story based performance any day. My favorite matches blend a superb story told in the best way with lots of action and excitement. I'm sure most people would say the same though hahaha.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2/3 falls sucked balls. Submission match did not. Simples .

Benoit/HHH Iron Man is good, great even, but doesn't come close to the Lesnar/Angle, Rock/HHH or Rude/Steamboat matches. ***3/4 for it. They keep up a great pace the entire time... but they never change it. It's just one long flat pace the entire time with neither of them ever kicking it into another gear. Almost like they were trying to coast through the hour and nothing more. Worth a watch no doubt, but doesn't hold a candle to the big 3.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've only ever seen one Ironman match in my life, and that was Adam Cole vs. Sami Calihan. I hate the idea of forcing a match to go a certain length of time. If the feud/story justifies the need for the match to go an hour, then so be it, but don't force it, which 99.999% of Ironman matches do/have done. I only watched Cole/Callihan because I was slightly intoxicated and with a group of mates who wanted to watch it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I've only ever seen one Ironman match in my life, and that was Adam Cole vs. Sami Calihan. I hate the idea of forcing a match to go a certain length of time. If the feud/story justifies the need for the match to go an hour, then so be it, but don't force it, which 99.999% of Ironman matches do/have done. I only watched Cole/Callihan because I was slightly intoxicated and with a group of mates who wanted to watch it.


I truly feel Brock/Angle called for it, after the good match at Mania 19 and Great one at SS, Ironman man was the next logical step for those two. Atleast in my view. They were both billed as the greatest athletes the WWE has ever had, so having the most physically demanding/grueling match possible makes sense. Plus the story they told through the match was just awesome. Love Brock intentionally getting a DQ in order to gain 2 more falls.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck, i forgot just how fucking AWESOME this really is. Damn Trips lol.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy shit, whoever recommended it (I believe it was Cal) thank you! Ambrose/Sandow can be described with only one word- BRILLIANT

Seriously, everyone should get on this day ASAP.

Oh and as for 60 minute matches, fuck 'em  I agree with Flux, if it needs to go that long fine. But it seems as if many of these indy promotions nowadays just want bragging rights in say "hey fuckers, this week my main event went 80 minutes how long can yours go?" 

What's even worse is the smarks smarking out by saying "What in the fuck kind of fan are you? What do you mean you can't sit through a 125 minute match? Your sir, don't appreciate fine wrestling. You're not a real wrestling fan. Do you even smark bro?"


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

I still love the Bret/Shawn IM match. Most people around here think it overrated, but whatevs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

obby said:


> I still love the Bret/Shawn IM match. Most people around here think it overrated, but whatevs.


Is that you Pat Patterson


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

obby said:


> I still love the Bret/Shawn IM match. Most people around here think it overrated, but whatevs.


Everyone is entitled to enjoy whatever they want, my opinion is that that match deserves its own level in the Great Pantheon of Boring-Ass Matches. You're the first person I've seen in here that really likes it, what about it did you enjoy? The rest holds and pacing are what absolutely kill it for me. I've watched the entire thing twice, and both times I ended up pausing to go have a cigarette and checking my phone about a dozen times. That's usually a sure sign the match doesn't work for me, if I think to check my phone while watching it. I've heard some people praise it for the build and story being told, which I guess I can understand a bit. Pat Patterson seems to think its the GOAT match, which is funny because I think his Alley Fight with Slaughter at MSG is about 10000 times better.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Just felt like bringing up a match that I enjoyed last night on RAW in the triple threat tag match. Although things didn't really pick up till TOF got eliminated and they came back after the break. Nut the crowd was really into it (and the announcers). Just goes to show how important the crowd is in wrestling. Apart from the crowd, the match itself was good as well and I really dug the finish.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Jack Swagger v Sami Zayn - NXT (9/5/13)*
Great match. Ultra competitive stuff featuring a marquee showing from Zayn whose electrifying offense and sympathetic babyface work had the crowd in the palm of his hands. Not on the same level as Cesaro/Zayn III as it lacked the intricacies and overall story that the Cesaro bout brought to the table but this was about as good as any back and forth showcase type match in 2013. DAT CLOTHESLINE from Swagger~! It won't quite make my top 10 of the year. Top 15 for sure though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Whenever Cody gets back if he's not going to be going for the WHC it'd be nice to see im tag with Goldust and defeat the shield for the titles, they'd be a fun team.

Obviously this'll only work if Goldust comes back full time


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*CM Punk best in the world DVD matches review​*
All of these matches were handpicked by Punk, so they must be good​
*Match # 1: CM Punk vs Brent Allbright- singles match for the OVW title( OVW March 2006)*

Probably not a widely known match here, I haven’t seen anything from CM punk when he was in OVW, so this could be good or bad. This was a fun look at Punk’s earliest work and it really shows that Punk has potential. After like 10 minutes of solid work things began to get strange. There was no commentary for like 5 minutes and Punk is loaded on a stretcher but then attacked and commentary continued….strange. The end of the match was similar to the beginning and was fun. Quite a long match for OVW and a fun one too. *** 

*Match # 2: CM Punk vs Justin Credible- singles match( ECW 8/1/06)*
'
This was the debut for CM Punk against a veteran Justin Credible so I think was a good choice for a debut match. This is in the Hammerstein Ballroom so the crowd is awesome. This was a decent match, especially for a debut match. The action was pretty fast paced and it was a fun match. Wish it went a little longer, but besides that it was good. ** ½*

*Match # 3: CM punk vs John Morisson- singles match for the ECW title( ECW 9/04/07) 
*
According to Punk this was his first good match in his eyes and is still one of his all time favorite matches. I haven’t seen it so I’m expecting some good stuff here. Its nice that they show the parts of the match when they are showing commercials. The first part of the match can be a little slow but it really picked up in the second part of the match,Just a fun match overall. *** ¾*

*Match # 4: John Morisson vs CM Punk vs Shelton Benjamin vs Chris Jericho vs MVP vs Carlito vs Mr.Kennedy- MITB match (WM 24 3/30/08)*

I love this match even though some say it is overrated, I disagree. This was a spotfest but it was a GOOD spotfest. So many good spots that I cannot describe in detail. This was just a FUN FUN FUUUUN match, although nearly all MITB matches are because they are just fun in nature. This was easily the biggest win in Punk’s career at this time although his run as champion would be unfortunate, his 2009 reign would make up for that. ****

*Match # 5: CM Punk and Kofi Kingston vs Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibiase- tag match(RAW 10/27/08)*

I actually did not know Kingston tagged with Punk as I really haven’t seen anything from this timeframe(fall of 08). But it sounds good on paper so why not? This was actually pretty boring unfortunately, it looked good on paper but it just was very boring until the last 2-3 minutes. Still, it was nice to see Punk and Kofi pick up the titles, but besides that…IDK. **


*Match # 6: CM Punk vs William Regal- singles match for the IC title( RAW 1/17/09)*

This is in Chicago and the pop here pales in comparison to the pop he gets today BY FAR. Never seen this match but it looks pretty good on paper. This was a decent TV match, it got a little slow, but not the best match to end a disc. ***

*Match # 7: Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk- TLC match for the WHC( Summerslam 2009) *

This was the springboard that took Punk from a just another guy with the title to a Main Event player. Although this is the first I have seen of this match, I still know that to be true. Because TLC matches are fun in nature(same with MITB) I highly dount this match will be boring. Definitely a fun match but not the classic I was expecting. Still, the lack of crowd excitement kind of took me out of the mood. That spot where Jeff did a huge swanton from the ladder into the table was sick. The Undertaker return was EPIC!! That was really cool. *** ¾*

*Match # 8: CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio- singles match( OTL 2010) *

I have seen the ER match they had and already know that these guys have some awesome chemistry and is probably the best feud of the SES era. This match is really good as the stip here is if Mysterio wins Punk must shave his head, and if Punk wins Mysterio must join the SES. It’s pretty crazy to think that only a year from now The Summer of Punk would be embarking as CM Punk looks totally different now. I really liked the pace of this match and I would like for them to clash again when Rey gets back, because that could be another great match at like, Hell in a Cell. Anyways a Fun match and It was funny to see Punk get shaved, he needed it anyway :lol. *** ½*

*Match # 9: CM Punk vs John Cena- singles match for the WWE championship(MITB 2011)*

One of the greatest matches of all time. Any wrestling fan needs to see it, its almost acts as like a rite of passage. Its up there in my top 5 or 10 all time. The whole situation with the contract actually expiring and it being in Chicago make this so special. It felt real, which is something you rarely see in wrestling. I just love the match from the opening bell to the final GTS. Just so great. *****

*Match # 10: CM Punk vs Chis Jericho- singles match for the WWE title( WM 28)*

This is a very underrated match IMO as it seemed to get lost in the shuffle a bit. This is mo five star classic but its still a good match. It’s definitely more of a fight than a technical masterpiece but its still fun. Scott Armstrong is the ref and he is showing his normal cadence during this match :lol. The crowd seemed a little disinterested but most likely they were burnt out after HHH/Taker but they would certainly heat up for the ME so I don’t know what was up. Still a fun match although I would of preferred a pinfall victory. ****



*Match # 11: CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan- singles match for the WWE title( OTL 2012)*

I’m upset I Haven’t see this, many people say this is their MOTY for 2012 and mine at this point is Lesnar/Cena, which I have at the full 5 stars. Bryan’s pop pales in comparison to what it is today, even though he was a heel it is suprising to see the lack of people going YES! or NO!. This was a great Techical match, I am not the biggest fan of these kinds of matches but I legit loved this match. It’s not my MOTY but it’s a solid number 2, with only Lesnar/Cena being better. Its too bad the rest of this PPV was crap. Good match to end an awesome DVD. **** ¾*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thoughts on the _Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane _set? Any gems on there? Some fun looking stuff the way it looks. Cage match with RVD, Stretcher match with Edge, '08 SD vs. Taker, Belfast Brawl vs. Finlay, etc. Haven't seen the majority of it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Belfast Brawl v Finlay is one of Kane's best matches.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Never seen or heard of the cage match with RVD, definitely need to check that out.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's the one where bischoff comes and restarts the match because Kane throws RVD through the cage and out.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched Triple H/Cena from Wrestlemania 22. Hadn't seen it in years and it wasn't as good as I remembered. I thought it would be at least **** but I only give it ***3/4. The pace was slow for to long and the finish was underwhelming. Still very good but not as good as expected.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH/Cena sucks for a mania main event

*** 1/4 would be the limit for me there. Too bad because the rest of the card is fun.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love HHH/Cena aside from the finish. The only match I truly love but will never watch it because of the ending.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH taping out was GOAT. HHH should tap out more. To jobbers an shit. Because he fuckin sucks. He's been coasting on his own reputation from 2000 for the last 12 years. Fuck off already hhh.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

OK now you're just being plain rude. :sad:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

and your just been playing stupid.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

All in good fun. I love everyone usually.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> HHH taping out was GOAT. HHH should tap out more. To jobbers an shit. Because he fuckin sucks. He's been coasting on his own reputation from 2000 for the last 12 years. Fuck off already hhh.



That harsh, harsh, truth. 

Triple H was amazing in 2000, since then he's had maybe 5 singles matches I would term "great". 

1. Vs Undertaker at Mania 17 (the best match out of their 3 at WM)
2. Vs Batista HiaC
3. Vs Austin 3 Stages of Hell
4. Vs Jeff Hardy No Mercy
5. Vs HBK at SS (the only watchable singles match they ever had)

I might be forgetting 1 or 2 but you get the gist. No one has coasted more than Triple H. He's the Vince Carter of the WWE.

And yet....I Pre ordered Thy Kingdom Come :side:

I'm a sucker for WWE produced documentaries, they are the best in any sport or field of entertainment.

Speaking of, currently watching the Ricky Steamboat Doc for the first time. I need to watch some of his tag matches with Youngblood against the Briscoes and Sgt. slaughter/Don Kernodle. They sound epic. Anyone a fan of these?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> That harsh, harsh, truth.
> 
> Triple H was amazing in 2000, since then he's had maybe 5 singles matches I would term "great".
> 
> ...


You didn't care for the Raw 2003 HBK match or either Mania Taker match (27/28)? How about LMS vs Randy Orton from No Mercy 2007? Flair from last Raw of 07? vs Flair Steel Cage Taboo Tuesday? vs Flair LMS? vs Show NYR 2006? vs Cena NOC 2008? vs Umaga street fight from Cyber Sunday 2007? vs Brock x3? vs Shelton in 2005? vs Booker Mania 19?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> You didn't care for the Raw 2003 HBK match or either Mania Taker match (27/28)? How about LMS vs Randy Orton from No Mercy 2007? Flair from last Raw of 07? vs Flair Steel Cage Taboo Tuesday? vs Flair LMS? vs Show NYR 2006? vs Cena NOC 2008? vs Umaga street fight from Cyber Sunday 2007?


Yea I'm be no means a HHH mark but he has had better matches than those 5, I have to get this off my chest, HHH 2000 is so overrated, and I would take his 04/05 KOK/evolution years over 2000 besides the foley matches

all the matches with flair are great, and taker/hhh II-III are ************ classics compared to wm 17 tbh


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

FUCK UP CAL UNDERTAKER DISAGREES WITH YOU 










dat longevity bromance

I have a feeling a lot of people are going to hate this Trips doc for the sole reason that a lot of wrestlers are going to tell us all how amazing he is and it's going to be hard to accept for a lot of folks :lol.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Triple H vs. Eugene @ Summerslam 2004 is one of the greatest single performances I've seen and is a testament to how great Haitch is when he's on point. Might not be a top 10 Game match, hell not top 20 or 30. But in terms of individual performances, it's arguably his best. Fucking unreal.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Next Tuesday, right? Honestly haven't been this excited for a release from any genre of film in ages.

edit Good shout on the Eugene match. That match is great. I know most would disagree, but I thought he was great in the Taboo Tuesday 2004 match against the injured Michaels as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> You didn't care for the Raw 2003 HBK match or either Mania Taker match (27/28)? How about LMS vs Randy Orton from No Mercy 2007? Flair from last Raw of 07? vs Flair Steel Cage Taboo Tuesday? vs Flair LMS? vs Show NYR 2006? vs Cena NOC 2008? vs Umaga street fight from Cyber Sunday 2007? vs Brock x3? vs Shelton in 2005? vs Booker Mania 19?


Haven't seen Raw with HBK, hate WM 27, don't like WM 28, LMS vs Orton is one I forgot to mention, I'd classify that as "great", the Flair match on Raw for, Greensboro (can't remember if that was 07' or not) was indeed classic, not a fan of LMS vs Flair, haven't seen vs Show NYR, not sure if I've seen Cena NOC yet, loved the Umaga Street Fight. Hated every match he had with Brock (WM is the only half decent one, but the ending turned me off. Their Cage match has the WORST cage match psychology I've ever seen, neither guy is ever trying to win. Heyman freaking closed the cage door on Brock at one point. Stupid. And this is coming from a HUGE Lesnar fan). Not sure if ive seen the specific Shelton match you are talking about, and WM 19 vs Booker is one of the single biggest reasons I tuned out of wrestling for a while.

I'm not as knowledgeable as a lot of you guys on here, I had to rewatch ALL of 2004-2008 after it already happened. So inevitably I have missed stuff. However. Even with all the matches you listed, that doesn't even bring the total of great Triple H matches to 10 from 2001-2013. That's less than one great match a year, not impressive for someone who considers himself Gods gift to wrestling.

I'm not like some people, I don't outright HATE Hunter, at all. I wouldn't own the King of Kings set and have pure ordered TKC if I did. I just hate how severely overrated he his by the general public. A lot of people say he's Top 10 all time and the GOAT heel. That is just nonsense. Guys like Rude blow him out of the water.

Ok I'm done.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If you look up the phrase criminally underrated in the rasslin dictionary you see a picture of Rick fucking Rude. One of the best heels ever. 

Taker/Trips WM 27 is awesome. I love it and rate it very high. WM 28 though good is a little overrated but I still enjoy it. I think Punk/Y2J was the best match that night. 

I'm not ripping Cal or anyone on this board that I have met but a lot of Undertaker marks I meet mark out so much for him because he gives such a seriousness to the business. Uhhhh ok. In his guy liner? They also have amnesia when the first few years of his career come up. I love me some Taker don't get me wrong but I think the biggest reason I like rasslin as a grown man is because it's a fun escape from reality. No use getting all agitated over something that is scripted. Just sayin.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rick Rude is dam good, but why did he suck so much in the 1990s?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You didn't enjoy his matches in WCW with Sting and Steamboat?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Haven't seen Raw with HBK, hate WM 27, don't like WM 28, LMS vs Orton is one I forgot to mention, I'd classify that as "great", the Flair match on Raw for, Greensboro (can't remember if that was 07' or not) was indeed classic, not a fan of LMS vs Flair, haven't seen vs Show NYR, not sure if I've seen Cena NOC yet, loved the Umaga Street Fight. Hated every match he had with Brock (WM is the only half decent one, but the ending turned me off. *Their Cage match has the WORST cage match psychology I've ever seen, neither guy is ever trying to win.* Heyman freaking closed the cage door on Brock at one point. Stupid. And this is coming from a HUGE Lesnar fan). Not sure if ive seen the specific Shelton match you are talking about, and WM 19 vs Booker is one of the single biggest reasons I tuned out of wrestling for a while.
> 
> I'm not as knowledgeable as a lot of you guys on here, I had to rewatch ALL of 2004-2008 after it already happened. So inevitably I have missed stuff. However. Even with all the matches you listed, that doesn't even bring the total of great Triple H matches to 10 from 2001-2013. That's less than one great match a year, not impressive for someone who considers himself Gods gift to wrestling.
> 
> ...


Couldn't disagree with this more. Thought it had some of the best psychology I've seen in a WWE cage match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the King of the Ring set still. Shamrock/Rock was a pretty damn good match and HHH was hilarious on commentary. 

Saint wiener, 

who is the girl in your sig? she looks like a sweet lady.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched Hart/123 kid raw 94, and all I have to say is GOOD Lord

- This holds up stupendously, this freaking glorious,not a technical/mat wrestling fan per say, but this delivers like no other, so swift and clean, the holds, the nasty elbows Bret throws, I LOVE it. Everything is great in this match

I can only honestly think of one Bret match better than this (mania with scsa) or maybe svs vs. nash ? Anyways this is a top 2-3 Bret match ever, loved it, Best Raw match ever ?

Got a huge history test tomorrow soo Later Marks ! :ziggler3


----------



## obby (May 19, 2009)

Cactus Jack said:


> Everyone is entitled to enjoy whatever they want, my opinion is that that match deserves its own level in the Great Pantheon of Boring-Ass Matches. You're the first person I've seen in here that really likes it, what about it did you enjoy? The rest holds and pacing are what absolutely kill it for me. I've watched the entire thing twice, and both times I ended up pausing to go have a cigarette and checking my phone about a dozen times. That's usually a sure sign the match doesn't work for me, if I think to check my phone while watching it. I've heard some people praise it for the build and story being told, which I guess I can understand a bit. Pat Patterson seems to think its the GOAT match, which is funny because I think his Alley Fight with Slaughter at MSG is about 10000 times better.


storytelling is key, yes.

It can be slow at times, yes, but the parts of the match I liked completely outweigh the bad.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Saint wiener,
> 
> who is the girl in your sig? she looks like a sweet lady.


I have no idea who she is but she sure does have a great personality.



redskins25 said:


> Got a huge history test tomorrow soo Later Marks ! :ziggler3


:mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rick Rude is dam good, but why did he suck so much in the 1990s?


He was arguably the best wrestler in the world in 1992.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> He was arguably the best wrestler in the world in 1992.



I almost put Steamboat/Rude Iron Man as my favorite match of 1992 when that topic came up a few weeks ago. I like it almost as much as the Rumble that year, Davey/Bret at Wembley and Savage/Flair.

Had Rude not fucked his back up I wonder if he would have come back to the WWF like 96-97 and got the winged eagle even as a transitional champ. I can remember going to house shows in the 80's and the only time my Dad would boo and hated someone was when Rude and Heenan came out.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Lol my dad cheered Rude when we went to house shows together. My family are a bunch of marks apparently.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

flair/perfect/heenan trio were top heels in 92


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Haha nice. Well I enjoyed the heels a lot as a kid. My love for the heels began when Savage turned on Hogan. My second grade class picture is me in the purple Macho Man shirt. When he turned my friends at school were like you can't like him anymore he is a bad guy. So I cheered pretty hard for Savage, DiBiase, Rude and Perfect. I was a huge mark for all 4 of those guys when I was like 9. Ahhhh good times.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Foley/HHH RR 2000: **** 1/2*, tempted to go **** 3/4* but that was beautiful either way. 

Rumble match up next, not expecting much


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> FUCK UP CAL UNDERTAKER DISAGREES WITH YOU
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not looking to resume any kind of Trips discussion but dat photo :mark::mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2000 rumble is meh, ***, star power was terrible.

I have to study but tomorrow I'm gonna start watching WM 2-5 which I'll probably finish that up this weekend. Won't watch much tomorrow considering I have 2 essays due Thursday


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm looking right now at Rude's 1992 on Profightdb. There are quite a few matches that I really really love (Steamboat Ironman Match, GAB 92 Tag Match), but there are also a lot of matches that fall into the "disappointing" pile that make up much of what I saw from Rude post 1990. 

For instance, the Masahiro Chono Halloween Havoc 92 match is in argument for worst match of all-time. Lord have mercy, it had every right to be shat on by that crowd. I'm definitely going to recheck the COTC 21 match with Sting, but I remember not thinking too highly of it because it felt way too dragged out. The first Steamboat PPV match was good, but just that - good. When you face someone like Steamboat, being "good" is not enough. Wargames was great obviously, but I still think that it is an overrated match (as in not a five-star match), and Rude was not anywhere near the star of that match. I'll go check out more of the Austin tag matches, but I highly doubt he was better than Stunning Steve in 1992, let alone the rest of the world. I know for sure that the likes of Vader, Casas, Kawada, and Misawa had better years.

Now I'm not trying to say that Rude was bad by any means. Dude is a legend and one of the greatest total packages ever. I just don't think he was an elite in-ring worker, and I want to be led to the right path.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Legends of Mid-South Wrestling - Disc Two

**Ghetto Street Fight
*Junkyard Dog vs. Butch Reed - ****
_June 16, 1984_

*Mid-South Tag Team Championship - No Disqualification
*The Rock n Roll Express (c) vs. The Midnight Express - ***
_May 24, 1984_

*Jim Cornette in a Straight Jacket
*The Rock n Roll Express (c) vs. The Midnight Express - ** 1/2
_??/??/????

_Shawn Michaels vs. Ted Dibiase - *
_December 1984

_*NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Ric Flair (c) vs. Terry Taylor - **** 1/4
_Superdome - June 1, 1985_


- Holy hell, I thought that Ghetto Street Fight was straight up fantastic. No wrestling holds, no submissions, nothin pretty. Just a straight up tooth and nail, come as you are street fight. Punches, kicks, brass knuckles, and a leather belt. That was honestly the whole match (plus a piledriver on the floor), but you could really tell these two guys hated each others guts as Reed was just chokin the life out of JYD with his own damn belt. The finish is a little confusing and doesn't really make sense but man, this match was far better than Dibiase/Duggan imo. Longer, paced better, more believable, just an all out brawl that shocked the hell outta me. 

- Midnights/RnR time baby. First match isn't their best but it's a lot of fun. Just a really wild match in the last few minutes that sees Eaton get his face destroyed against the ring post and Cornette using some kind of chloroform to regain the belts. Bodies flyin everywhere. The 2nd match I think was just included for the rarity and novelty of Cornette being put in a straight jacket and placed high above the ring so he wouldn't interfere. No one knows the date apparently. Basically the whole match is a FIP segment with Morton then he makes the hot tag and Condrey basically gets himself DQed intentionally, I guess knowing they couldn't win the titles without Cornette. Smart or not, who knows.

- Dibiase/Michaels is an obvious squash. Michaels speaks very highly of the match and of Dibiase as a person and mentor.

- To no one's surprise, Flair/Taylor was great. It's these old school, simplistic style matches that really make you appreciate the small things in wrestling & they're always a refreshing change from today's style where people are killing themselves to get over. Literally the first 10-15 minutes are nothing but a headlock and a front facelock from Taylor but it's so smartly done as he never relinquishes the grip, which constantly frustrates the champion and keeps him on the mat. One of my favorite parts of the entire match is when Taylor has him in the headlock and Flair tries to grab his leg and go for the shinbreaker but you see Terry just grind up the pressure on the headlock over and over again until it forces Flair to let go of the leg as he's in so much pain. As the match progresses into the middle portions it develops into the Flair show we know and love. Dirty heel tactics like pulling of the hair and sudden knees to the groin piss the fans off oh so much. Taylor did well in his role as the young underdog challenger but we saw a lot of the same sequences throughout the match when he was on offense. He often times needed to be led by Flair and really couldn't muster up a whole lot more than punches, chops, and a backdrop out of the corner (I think they did that sequences 3 times honestly). His nearfalls were well done with the backslides and small packages and I LOVED everything they did with the figure four. A large theme of the match was basically Taylor saying "anything you can do, I can do better" and it worked extremely well. Great match, another great performance from Flair. There's a few select folks around here who like to praise Flair's '85 as his GOAT year and it's nice to finally see something from that year personally and to see it get shown to the masses on dvd. Another reason why Flair NEEDS to have an unreleased collection out next year. It's a must. Oh and I forgot to mention, the story Taylor tells about Flair's prematch ritual and his entrance into the building makes this even more enjoyable. (Y)​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Mid South set fuckin owns. Good write up. That Flair/Taylor match was killer as was the Flair/DiBiase match. 

JYD matches are so fun. What a stud he was. 

RIP JYD!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I need some more JYD in my life. I've only been exposed to his WWE stuff, but that seems like an unfair way to make an opinion out of him considering that he was essentially a comedy character that wrestled terrible matches. That feud with Butch Reed sounds really good. Too bad I can't find the Street Fight anywhere.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

That street fight was on you tube a few weeks ago. I'm sure the E took it down. Buy this set though it's great. 

I'm sure you have heard this but there was a poll in New Orleans back in the day of who the most popular athlete was there....Archie Manning, Pete Maravich or JYD and JYD won in a landslide. He was over as fuck. 

Such a sad story of how he died. Major soft spot for the Dog.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Mid-South does truly seem like a place full of gems. I used to not see much in Ted Dibiase's ring work since I was only exposed to his WWE work. Only matches I liked from him in the WWE were the Savage cage matches and the one with Virgil. When I finally watched the Flair match, my mind was blown. And then it blew up even more after the Duggan feud. Same happened with Duggan and Koko B Ware when I checked out their territory stuff. I just wish I had more free time what with work and school and all just to check out some more territory stuff and to pursue my COTC project.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

WWEShop's doing another Buy 1 Get 1 Free for DVDs, and since I was planning on getting SummerSlam from this year, would you rather get Extreme Rules 2012 or MITB 2011 to accompany it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> WWEShop's doing another Buy 1 Get 1 Free for DVDs, and since I was planning on getting SummerSlam from this year, would you rather get Extreme Rules 2012 or MITB 2011 to accompany it?


Just a heads up, Summerslam is excluded from the deal. I've tried 657 different combinations and it won't let you buy it with anything as a part of the BOGO deal. Also the deal is ending really soon, so hurry!

Buuuuut, my vote goes to Extreme Rules.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well shit, I might just go to Wal-Mart to pick up the SummerSlam DVD then :side: Thanks for the heads-up 

Since I have to hold off on playing GTAV until Friday (once I start there's no going back, and I have a math test Friday morning), I guess I'll hold myself over by watching some older matches. Time to go YouTubing


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> WWEShop's doing another Buy 1 Get 1 Free for DVDs, and since I was planning on getting SummerSlam from this year, would you rather get Extreme Rules 2012 or MITB 2011 to accompany it?


Nice how long do they have that deal for? 

MitB 2011 > ER 2012

but it's very close


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I need to get a job. I just blew my load and decided to use the B1G1 discount so I could get MITB2011, ER2012, AND SSlam2013 for the price of 2  . Damn college!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WrestlingDVDNews said yesterday the deal was ending tonight (currently 2 AM where I am) so we'll see how long they keep it up for. Kinda pissed Summerslam wasn't included


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, I got SummerSlam 2013, MITB 2011, and Extreme Rules 2012 for about $40, which isn't too bad. 

I'm still exactly the kind of fan WWE loves :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll treat myself to the Mid South DVD, I still havnt watched all the DVDVR set yet, but I just can't resist, for what I have seen, love me a bit of Mid South.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finished RAW right now. Oh WWE. You make my head hurt.

The backlash all over the board is kind of funny b/c the majority is starting to realize WWE is pushing shit over talent atm. Pardon Danielson. It leaves us to question everything, I know.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

PTP deserve their push


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's one of the big points I'm referring to. Oh no, but they have to use those Usos instead. As if that hasn't happened what feels like a millions times already.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I like the Usos but I agree. We've already seen the match a dozen times in the past couple of months. I would like to see Real Americans/Shield but there's no way two heel teams will face each other in this day and age. A fatal four way tag team match between the PTP/Usos/Americans/Shield would be fucking awesome though


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm really hoping for Shield vs. Usos vs. Real Americans vs. PTP at Survivor Series. But knowing WWE, they'd just make that a 4v4 with PTP and The Usos vs. Real Americans and two members of 3MB or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

God if this tag team dreck hangs around until Survivor Series I may kill myself. Replacing Usos with Tons of Funk and I may be able to actually cope. Maybe. Usos just need to die. Such an unlikable duo. That's what bothers me more than the mediocre ring work. Doesn't help that The Shield are far and away way higher up than every other tag team so I can't see them losing being believable. Show & Henry was the only duo I could see. PTP could be Hart Dynasty style back in 2010.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, there are a lot of people that do like them. Your wish ain't coming true anytime soon, Cody.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched the handicap match from NoC, and I actually enjoyed it a lot. ***3/4, think i'm goin crazy but the Axel/Punk match was really good and the Heyman stuff was priceless.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watching more SHIELD at the moment, hoping to have all of their 6 man tags watched by the end of the working week, unless I fuck off and get high all day like I no doubt will... I`ll just watch em high, Rollins the GAWD why not?

Their first loss on Smackdown was great, just the way Lillian announced it seemed to emphasize how important it was. Probably the biggest thing to happen on Smackdown in a long fucking time and beneficial to Bryan's push big time. Stars wise I'd go **** 1/4* for that encounter, same as the Mania XXIX bout. Rollins taking the RKO, yeah.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Shield match was an awesome choice to open the show at wm this year

Too bad it was the number 2 match of the night


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Legends of Mid-South Wrestling - Disc Three

**Mid-South Television Championship
*The Snowman (c) vs. Jake Roberts - DUD
_Superdome - June 1, 1985

_*NWA World Heavyweight Championship
*Ric Flair (c) vs. Ted Dibiase - N/R (more of a segment to me)
_November 15, 1985

_Rob Ricksteiner vs. Nick Patrick - SQUASH
_August 3, 1986

_The Bladerunners vs. John O'Reilly & Ken Massey - SQUASH
_UWF March 1986

_*UWF Heavyweight Championship
*Terry Gordy (c) vs. Jim Duggan - ***
_UWF August 6, 1986

_*Lumberjack Match
*Michael Hayes & Buddy Roberts vs. Ted Dibiase & Steve Williams - ** 3/4
_UWF August 31, 1986_

*UWF Heavyweight Championship
*Terry Gordy (c) vs. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams - ***
_UWF September 9, 1986

_*UWF Heavyweight Championship
*One Man Gang (c) vs. Big Bubba Rogers - ** 1/4
_UWF June 1987

_*UWF Heavyweight Championship
*Big Bubba Rogers (c) vs. "Dr. Death" Steve Williams - N/R (joined in progress)
_UWF July 11, 1987_


- This disc is by far the weakest of the three and we start with an awful match between Roberts & Snowman. Snowman is just a jacked up black dude with no wrestling skill and the match is only included because of the Muhammed Ali angle. It was cool to see the old footage with him and JR, not cool to see the match.

- Flair/Dibiase I decided not to rate because the whole thing just felt like more of an angle to turn Dibiase back to babyface than an actual match. There was a match that went about 7 minutes but everything happening around it seemed more important; i.e. the attacks by Murdoch and Dibiase's ridiculous bladejob. All in all a very important inclusion.

- Rob Ricksteiner vs. Nick Patrick are the exact two people I know you're thinking of, the dog-faced gremlin and the crooked WCW ref. Another random fact is that Ric Flair is on commentary for the match. WTF? Two squash matches in a row (Bladerunners) then we get a lumberjack match that's really fun.

- I really wanted to enjoy the UWF Title matches on this set more than I did but I just couldn't. Gordy vs. Duggan is pretty good but the commercial break came at a shitty time where Gordy was starting his legwork, then they came back and we missed all of it. I also had this feeling that Gordy was just wrestling Duggan too soft, not being vicious enough as the heel. Duggan held his end up fine. Pretty cool here as the TV time ends and they go off the air but we still see t he inclusion of the match, even though it's a DQ finish.  Gordy vs. Williams is also a good match but this time I felt it was too one sided in Williams' favor. Gordy blades and the finish is a little overbooked and controversial, but it also plays into the story of Gordy taking a beating and just able to escape with the belt by the skin of his teeth. Fun stuff. Gang vs. Bubba was just two huge dudes punchin each other for like 15 minutes. Both guys bladed and the heat was there but it wasn't all that great.


*Overall Set Score: 7.5/10

*- I definitely liked this set as a whole. It really gave me a good look at guys I wasn't too highly familiar with and made me appreciate them a little more. Guys like Butch Reed, Jim Duggan, Terry Gordy, etc. Throughout all 3 discs you could tell Mid-South was probably more well known for its great television and big angles than for match quality, but there's still some gems on here and I'm sure a bunch of better shit that I just haven't seen yet. Disc 2 was really fuckin good but Disc 3 left a lot to be desired and I felt like they just started rushing through things. I would DEFINITELY like to see a Vol. 2 of this somewhere down the line because there's still several other matches I'd like to see get released and other angles I've heard about that they didn't dive into.

*Best Matches on the Set:

*1. Ric Flair vs. Terry Taylor (**** 1/4)
2. *Ghetto Street Fight: *Junkyard Dog vs. Butch Reed (****)
3. Midnight Express vs. Magnum T.A. & Mr. Wrestling II (*** 1/2)
4. Dibiase vs. Duggan 18 Stipulation Cage Match (*** 1/4)
5. Three others at *** (Midnights vs. RnR No DQ, Gordy vs. Duggan, & Gordy vs. Williams)​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didn't see any decent videos for HHH/Taker's WM27 Entrances, thought id upload them (unedited with original songs intact):


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

WWE already blocked them :lmao(N)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bunch of fuckers :frustrate

Time to get sneaky then.

EDIT - Seem to work for me.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

They're blocked.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bloody hell, I'll sort it out lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> WWE already blocked them :lmao(N)


Do you happen to remember the date the Shelton vs HHH match in 2005 you were talking about occurred? I can only find ones from 04' and 07'.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More info on the HHH DVD:



> Over 20 wrestling personalties were interviewed for the Triple H “Thy Kingdom Come” documentary. Newly sourced interview footage with names such as The Undertaker, William Regal, Diamond Dallas Page, Mick Foley, Kevin Nash, Brock Lesnar, Ric Flair, Randy Orton and Batista is shown throughout the 2 hour feature.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

This is gonna be big


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just ordered the Summerslam 2013 Blu Ray, The Twisted Disturbed Life of Kane, and Hulk Hogan's Unreleased Collector's Series for $33 shipped. Gotta love Best Buy's free shipping. I think I honestly have EVERY 2 or 3 disc release I could ever want from WWE (aside from a couple released in the past year). Still so many I haven't watched.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Do you happen to remember the date the Shelton vs HHH match in 2005 you were talking about occurred? I can only find ones from 04' and 07'.


Yeah, I'm a retard - they're from 2004. 3/29/04 and 4/5/04. Thought there was a third one but I could be wrong.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Just ordered the Summerslam 2013 Blu Ray, The Twisted Disturbed Life of Kane, and Hulk Hogan's Unreleased Collector's Series for $33 shipped. Gotta love Best Buy's free shipping. I think I honestly have EVERY 2 or 3 disc release I could ever want from WWE (aside from a couple released in the past year). Still so many I haven't watched.


I do the same thing bro. I own every single documentary the WWe has ever produced, along with about 30 2 or 3 disc sets for different wrestlers, gimmick matches, and rivalries. I love them though. I pre ordered TKC, I car wait to see Undertaker interviewed :mark:

Love the Mid South set, the twisted Kane set is one of the few I don't own that I still want to buy. If you end up reviewing it at all I'd love to see if its worth the $15 or so. It's Kane, so I'm sure it's worth double that.

I need to start getting some individual PPV's. I own the entire Royal Rumble set, the entire Mania set, and the entire Summerslam set, but only have about 5 B PPv's from 2004-2013. No Mercy 08', ER12, MitB11, Payback, and Backlash 04'. That needs to change. What are some good reccomendations for B PPV's from 2002-2013?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH documentary better make it online quickly. Mid-South set still isn't available to download .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I want this to open the HHH Doc:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I do the same thing bro. I own every single documentary the WWe has ever produced, along with about 30 2 or 3 disc sets for different wrestlers, gimmick matches, and rivalries. I love them though. I pre ordered TKC, I car wait to see Undertaker interviewed :mark:
> 
> Love the Mid South set, the twisted Kane set is one of the few I don't own that I still want to buy. If you end up reviewing it at all I'd love to see if its worth the $15 or so. It's Kane, so I'm sure it's worth double that.
> 
> I need to start getting some individual PPV's. I own the entire Royal Rumble set, the entire Mania set, and the entire Summerslam set, but only have about 5 B PPv's from 2004-2013. No Mercy 08', ER12, MitB11, Payback, and Backlash 04'. That needs to change. What are some good reccomendations for B PPV's from 2002-2013?


You know what, since you requested it I'll review it as soon as it comes in next week. (Y) Btw it's only 5.99 at Best Buy & Amazon.

If you wanna start with the essentials, these PPVS are all great choices:

No Way Out 2008 & 2009
Backlash 2006, 2007, & 2009
Judgment Day 2005
Vengeance 2003 & 2005 (these are the TOPS)
No Mercy 2002 & 2003
Extreme Rules 2011
Elimination Chamber 2013

Off the top of my head.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Judgment Day 04 was pretty much a 1-match show tbh 

JD 05 is a better choice.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Judgment Day 04 was pretty much a 1-match show tbh
> 
> JD 05 is a better choice.


You meant 06, right?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ah shit, good catch. That was a mistype. Meant to say '05. (Y)

I have '06 on dvd but haven't watched it yet.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You know what, since you requested it I'll review it as soon as it comes in next week. (Y) Btw it's only 5.99 at Best Buy & Amazon.
> 
> If you wanna start with the essentials, these PPVS are all great choices:
> 
> ...



I have JD2004's ME on my Eddie Set, same with Vengeance 05' on the KoK set. I'm gonna go with Vengeance 2003 (even though I have the Benoit/Eddie match, the rest of the card is sickly), NWO 2008, Backlash 2006, and the Kane set for right now. Props, thanks a lot sir


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> You meant 06, right?


06 is very good too. But I did meant 05


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, I'm a retard - they're from 2004. 3/29/04 and 4/5/04. Thought there was a third one but I could be wrong.


They had another one in the final Raw of 2004. 27/12/2004. It was a Beat the Clock match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ Good call, knew I was forgetting one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Done with classes, and beat

Does anyone know the dates of these two matches:

1)reigns/rollins vs team hell no RAW
2) rollins/dbryan I RAW


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Shield/Hell No - 5/27/2013
Rollins/Bryan - 6/10/2013

Eurghh, hate writing dates American style. Need to put so much thought in to it. :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks man, and I HATE when its date first, so weird, but I'm from #murcia


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That 5/27 tag is awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rollins & Reigns vs Kane & Danielson is probably still my favorite TV match of the year. Work is pristine.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

No Mercy 2008 was also very good. A double main event and a quality undercard.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple main event, tbhayley. Undertaker vs Big Show & rules the world. Show is brilliant.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching Fully Loaded 2000, with inspiration from CAL, and doing some rambling. Going for dinner, then will come back and finish. My first time watching this show all the way through. First couple matches are already really good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, No Mercy 2008 is awesome.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on Mania 4 and 5? once I'm done with 3 i'll be watching these.

Dont expect a review, I'll be writing an essay on steroids in baseball while watching


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booking JBL vs Batista to only be five minutes. Geniuses. Only drawback on that night was the awkward Orton, Priceless, Punker, & jobbers segment. We couldn't have got a match instead? something small? idk. It was just weird.

@smitty - WrestleMania V is awesome, imo. Always big a been fan. Cal will now chime in how he hates all early WM's up until...six or seven. Maybe even eight.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

That segment is cool just because of "Porter" (lol) and obviously, Orton. 

Which one is the best from the Taker vs Show series in 2008 for everyone else? I have Cyber Sunday comfortably as #1, followed by NM then the cage match and a distant fourth is the casket match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Rollins & Reigns vs Kane & Danielson is probably still my favorite TV match of the year. Work is pristine.


Over Punker/Cena in February and Rollins/Bryan in June?

Those two are my favorite, with the tag you listed and also Hell No Kofi/Shield following closely afterward.

Can anybody tell me wtf WWE is doing with their booking right now? I was all in on this Corporation angle after Summerslam, and now I'm almost already getting tired of it because of how senseless some of this stuff is. What in the world is the point of them telling everyone Big Show is broke and making him cry like a total puss every week? Is that supposed to get people behind Show? Or build heat for the corporation? Because its accomplishing neither right now. It just makes Big Show look like another dumb athlete who can't manage his money and also like a total sell out for compromising all his morals to keep his job. And it doesn't build heat for Steph/Trips because all they are doing is leveraging a situation to get what they want, it makes them seem smart.

And why Bryan went over with a fast count at NoC is beyond me, it just diminishes the value of the belt and weakens the final payoff when he wins clean in the end. No matter how this angle evolves, they have already hurt it irreparably for no discernible reason other than blatant incompetence.

And finally, Ryback as the new Heyman guy? Really? Ryback represents everything Paul Heyman is supposed to HATE in wrestling, and for that matter so does Axel. There are so many better choices here, and this isn't just personal preference talking this is just an undisputed fact. Even having RVD as the new Heyman guy would make more sense, let alone someone like Cesaro, or Big Show, or Henry. So many other choices. 

Ok I'm gonna stop because just thinking of all the ways they have managed to screw up a storyline that should have written itself is simply depressing.

I'm gonna go back and watch one of my new favorite matches from 2008, Festus vs Undertaker. Seriously, how AWESOME was Festus? Where is this guy now??


Edit- Thank you C2D, you just gave me something new to watch, as I haven't seen Show vs Taker Cyber Sunday. LOVE No Mercy though, two big bastards just blasting each other in the grill trying to knock each others fucking heads off. Such a great concept for a match, and almost always entertaining.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> That 5/27 tag is awesome.





HayleySabin said:


> Rollins & Reigns vs Kane & Danielson is probably still my favorite TV match of the year. Work is pristine.


Yea only big match this year I haven't seen yet, good to hear

Just watched swaggie/fella me from MITB , good lord this great, just another match I that list, swaggie( yes I'm the guy that has a nickname/acronym from alot of things) has been pretty good recently


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sounds good @HayleySabin, Got the first anthology set( I-V) as a birthday present, one was okay, ME was probably MOTN which isn't saying much, but it was still a fun show. I skipped II for later as I know it sucks. on the 4th match of III now and about to put it back on. 

BTW- opening tag match of III was FUN for a five minute match in the 80s. *** from me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Festus is back on the indies tearing shit up. Not only did WWE miss the boat with him, but TNA too. I wish New Japan would find a slot on their roster for him. Would kill to see him over there raging war with that talent.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Booking JBL vs Batista to only be five minutes. Geniuses. Only drawback on that night was the awkward Orton, Priceless, Punker, & jobbers segment. We couldn't have got a match instead? something small? idk. It was just weird.
> 
> @smitty - WrestleMania V is awesome, imo. Always big a been fan. Cal will now chime in how he hates all early WM's up until...six or seven. Maybe even eight.


Yeah, WM IV and V are TERRIBLE. IV is the second worst WM ever and V is the 4th worst . 6 is really good though . 7 is a pile of turd.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ordering another anthology set off amazon when I'm done with this one. probably the 16-20 set, that sounds like a steal on paper for $30. 16 is the worst and that STILL has 2 decent matches


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Yeah, WM IV and V are TERRIBLE. IV is the second worst WM ever and V is the 4th worst . 6 is really good though . 7 is a pile of turd.



Don't listen to Cal, he knows not what he says, Mania 7 is no pile of turd

Taker Squashing Snuka (good)
Rockers vs Haku/Barbarian (good)
Nasties vs Hart Foundation (great)
Warrior vs Savage (top 5 mania match of all time)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wait, I got it wrong, 6 is turd and 7 is really good .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal always hits the nail on the head when it comes to Mania. Long live Cal.

EDIT: Ah dammit, he changed his mind on 7.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WrestleMania VI - 4.5

Koko B Ware Vs Rick Martel - DUD - 0
Demolition Vs Andre The Giant & Haku - DUD - 0
Earthquake Vs Hercules - DUD - 0
Mr Perfect Vs Brutus The Barber Beefcake - 3/4* - 0
Rowdy Roddy Piper Vs Bad News Brown - DUD - 0
The Hart Foundation Vs The Bolsheviks - DUD - 0
Tito Santana Vs The Barbarian - NO - -1
Randy Savage & Sensational Sherry Vs Dusty Rhodes & Sapphire - NO - -1
The Rockers Vs The Orient Express - ***1/4 - 2
Dino Bravo Vs Hacksaw Jim Duggan - NO - -1
Ted DiBiase Vs Jake Roberts - *** - 2
Akeem Vs The Big Bossman - ** - 0.5
Rick Rude Vs Jimmy Snuka - NO - -1
Hulk Hogan Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ***3/4 - 5


WrestleMania VII - 13.5

The Rockers Vs Haku & Barbarian - *** - 2
Kerry Von Eric Vs Dino Bravo - 1/2* - 0
The Warlord Vs The British Bulldog - 1/4* - 0
The Nasty Boys Vs The Hart Foundation - ***1/2 - 3
Rick Martel Vs Jake Roberts - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs Jimmy Snuka - * - 0
Randy Savage Vs The Ultimate Warrior - ****1/2 - 7
Koji Kitao & Genichiro Tenryu Vs Demolition - * - 0
Mr Perfect Vs The Big Bossman - ** - 0.5
Earthquake Vs Greg Valentine - 1/4* - 0
The Legion of Doom Vs Power & Glory - 1/4* - 0
Ted DiBiase Vs Virgil - * - 0
Tito Santana Vs The Mountie - NO - -1
Sgt Slaughter Vs Hulk Hogan - *** - 2

-----------------------------------------

Watching No Way Out 2000. Then it'll be either Backlash 2000 or one of the UK PPV's, depending on when I can be arsed and if the UK shows have finished downloading . Fully Loaded is going on last.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I was pimping Festus ridiculously hard in here the other day. I must have watched 5-6 of his matches in the space of half an hour and it was so, so fun. His two minute match with Big Show, if you haven't seen it already (I can't remember who was active when I was talking about him) is phenomenal. As are his matches with Jomo, Kozlov, Domino and 'Taker.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I was active when you were saying that. I still need to watch all those. Don't remember Festus being as good as you all are saying.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Festus/Kozlov is about as tremendous as a match of that length can possibly be. The Undertaker match is just fantastic, and the Big Show match is a fun 2 minutes.

MIKE KNOX needs some pimping too. He had a great bunch of matches with Rey and Finlay during his time in WWE. FLYING BEAR~!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Best thing Knox ever did was get buried by DX @ Survivor Series.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Did anyone else mark out for Tensai's delayed Tiger Suplex looking thing on Cesaro from Raw? Never seen that before, he must have held him up for a good 10 seconds


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tensai been doing that since back in the days of PRINCE ALBERT. Where da fook u been?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I always loved the Tiger and Dragon Suplex, I've been wondering with all the lame finishes some guys have, why no one has dusted off one of those and made them their own.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Callamus said:


> Tensai been doing that since back in the days of PRINCE ALBERT. Where da fook u been?


I usually tune off during his matches but decided to not fast forward because the Real Americans were in it

Interesting


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Festus/Kozlov is about as tremendous as a match of that length can possibly be. The Undertaker match is just fantastic, and the Big Show match is a fun 2 minutes.
> 
> MIKE KNOX needs some pimping too. He had a great bunch of matches with Rey and Finlay during his time in WWE. FLYING BEAR~!


Festus vs Kozlov is a mind-blowing adventure through a tunnel riddled with grenades. WAR. God damn that match is so good. Finish is still OH SHIT worthy.

MIKE KNOX. He was awesome in the Elimination Chamber before being eliminated all abruptly.



The Lady Killer said:


> Best thing Knox ever did was get buried by DX @ Survivor Series.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

kinda bored, so composing a MOTYC list of some sort kinda, need to rewatch cesaro/kofi me I, I remembered Cody had one, idk if you still have it if you see this 

There is this guy on DM that literally has EVERYTHING of some notoriety this year on his channel, like a goldmine tbh


Edit: As I write down matches, 3 names keep popping out : Antonio Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, and Dolph Ziggler


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Edit: As I write down matches, 3 names keep popping out : Antonio Cesaro, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, and *CM Punk *


Fixed 

Seriously though, Punks had 3 matches that deserve ****1/2 each in my estimation, that's not bad for a guy who got injured at Mania and hasn't had a plethora of good opponents for TV matches to build his resume. He had the MotN at the 2 biggest events of the year, and has the best TV match of the year vs Cena. Punker is in the top 5 for WotY, no doubt.

I still think Bryan has WotY locked up, but man that Cesaro. He's just such an undeniable beast, he never does anything I don't thoroughly enjoy, from his 5 minute squashes to his 20 minute masterpiece with Zayn, the guy just delivers. I simply cannot wait until WWE realizes what they have with this guy and give him the singles push he deserves.

Zayn deserves to be mentioned too, and he rounds out my top 5 for WotY. What a wonderful wrestler this guy is, he can preform in front of an audience that has never seen or heard of him, and within 5 minutes have the entire crowd completely behind him. That's a rare skill, it's awfully difficult to introduce a like able baby face on the main roster, because being a face when you're not widely known is such a difficult balancing act. It's much easier to be introduced as a heel and switch down the road once you've established yourself. I have 100% confidence that Zayn will prove the exception to this rule, he's going to be great from day 1 as soon as the call up happens.

For me, it's Bryan, Cesaro, Punk, Zayn, and Ziggler as the guys in contention for WotY, I, excited to see who locks it up over the next 3 months.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As the neighborhood Punk mark here, I have a hard time putting him above Bryan, Ziggler, Cesaro, Orton, or any member of the Shield. MAYBE add either Del Rio or Sheamus in there, but Punk should surpass both of them very soon. The two month gap really set him back, and he has had some stinkers this year (Rock, Darren Young, Axel, to most people here unfortunately, Jericho as well unk3). Dude owned 2011 and 2012, but 2013 is basically a story of him mainly beasting the top level matches, but not churning up that same level of material in television matches.

Punk/Fandango from Smackdown needs more recognition. High end ****1/2* match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't think Punk vs Fandango was anything special. Punk vs Del Rio from RAW >. Del Rio & Sheamus have had plenty of great matches this year. Orton can only be mentioned over his good work the last month following SummerSlam - the best being vs Goldust. Anything before that and you're losing your mind as he was utter shit. Shield is a given. Punk doesn't need a catalog of massive matches solely b/c look at what he's been given all year. His program atm is mostly focused on the story over the work. Then he had the matches vs Cena, Undertaker, & Brock behind him. Meaning he doesn't need to have a single match the rest of the year and he'll be good b/c those were all fabulous. The Brock match being flawless.

Zayn being up there in top five is the greatest thing 2013 has produced. Bar friggin none. Best in the god damn world.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The WW/NXT is full of guys that range from very good to great as workers, I mean from Punk, Bryan, Zayn, Ziggler, Cesaro, Rollins, Reigns, Cena, Henry, Swagger, Ambrose (still holding out hope for him), Orton, Rhodes, Sandow, Kane, Sheamus, and on and on, anyone that says the WWE is lacking in talent is kidding themselves. What the WWE is lacking compared to the early 2000s is legit star power. The only way to build stars is by having creative come up with compelling story lines to hook the average fan and get them over with the general WWE audience as legit Main Even talent. Some of those guys are already certifiable stars, and others just need the right story lines and opponents to put them over the top. They are doing okay by Bryan now, not as good as they could be but that's a different story. They just need to consistently show an effort to establish the rest of the card and who knows what can happen. Stone Cold and The Rock were essentially low card guys when they came in. They got an opportunity because of the lack of Main Event talent in the mid to late 90s.

They can't keep going to the well for Brock, Trips, and Rocky for forever. Some guys will have to break through eventually. The big 4 for full time wrestlers is Cena, Orton, Punk, and Bryan. I wonder who the next one will be.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eh, I guess my criteria for a good year is one modeled more towards volume rather than a few peaks. Orton isn't in the top five of workers this year by any stretch, but he does have more good matches churned out than Punk does. Of course, if Punk can pull off another miracle work with Ryback this year, then he should surpass anything Orton or almost everyone else on the roster does. Bless his soul. I would love it more if he had more matches with up and coming heels as a way to make them look good while still winning the match to make himself look strong as well. Punk generally seems to not want to do squashes and he would much rather let his opponent showcase on him while he bumps and sells like a madman.

Punk/Swagger from early last year deserves a watch. Swagger tosses Punk around like he's Mysterio. SWAGGER! This was during his weakest point as a jobber too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still think I've liked more matches from Punk over Orton at this rate. Not to mention the ones I've liked from Punk are WAY stronger in quality. So he wins. Far and away. Just glad I can watch Orton again and expect at least a solid - good match now. That's all I care about.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still can't believe I just defended Orton in a debate revolving around Punk. Now I feel dirty and ashamed of myself unk3

Swagger better have some good stuff in 2010. I'm gonna go Yeah1993 some of his matches from that year. Loved the Mysterio matches. The MITB match might be my favorite non-Christian Swagger match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have to give a mention to Swagger, Sheamus and Del Rio actually, both had had quiet good years

Punk definitely has had a better year than Orton, even if I'm not nearly as high on punk/taker as most of you are


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still can't believe I just defended Orton in a debate revolving around Punk. Now I feel dirty and ashamed of myself unk3


You should be proud. There's plenty of room over here to join! rton2

I may be a mark or whatever but I think Orton has been delivering quality consistently ever since the Rhodes match from 29/4.

- Cesaro match on Main Event
- Big Show from Extreme Rules
- Shield tags 3x (w/ Sheamus & Kofi and the two with Team Hell No)
- Bryan matches 2x
- Smackdown matches with RVD, Christian and Del Rio in July
- Fandango match after MITB
- all the post-SummerSlam stuff, specially matches with the Runnels family


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> - Smackdown matches with RVD, Christian and Del Rio in July
> - Fandango match after MITB
> - all the post-SummerSlam stuff, specially matches with the Runnels family


I agree. He's been on fire since MITB as far as match quality is concerned, and I don't think anyone has to be crazy to think that.

Even the match with Miz on Smackdown was pretty damn solid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Swagger better have some good stuff in 2010. I'm gonna go Yeah1993 some of his matches from that year. Loved the Mysterio matches. The MITB match might be my favorite non-Christian Swagger match.


vs Kaval, RIGHT NOW. Do it. He has a sweet five minute match vs Masters from Superstars too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Is that really the term for that "Yeah1993" I everyone does that, I do it all the time, I'll feel like HHH 2005 for a day, or Rey 10 or shawn 96 and jsut type that into YT, DM or look up matches from that year

Watching bryan/rollins I

Edit: bryan/rollins was good,nothing great though, nice face paced match-up but I think its more of a testament of 2013 match quality that it wouldnt even be in my top 15


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 it is. Glad it caught on. 

Skins you think Dolph vs Axel from tonight has potential? Axel is a weird one. Can't work with Punk, but can work well with Rhodes. He's picky with his chemistry it seems. On paper I'm down for the match on main event tonight. Got to watch it after the match I got on atm.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Yeah1993 it is. Glad it caught on.
> 
> Skins you think Dolph vs Axel from tonight has potential? Axel is a weird one. Can't work with Punk, but can work well with Rhodes. He's picky with his chemistry it seems. On paper I'm down for the match on main event tonight. Got to watch it after the match I got on atm.


Geez I keep forgetting Main Event It went off a couple hours ago my time, anyways

Axel is weird one indeed, picks and chooses who he got something with, as much as we bash the guy for being bland, he NOT that bad of a wrestler, I like his matches with Y2J, I'll probably check ziggle/axel out tomorrow.I haven't seen that much of Axel control portion tbh to judge are they any good ? Usually the heel get most of the offense in matches against ziggles these days.

We will see though, A Babyface Ziggler + A good axel + facial expression GOD heyman = something good. I

Have you seen Swagger/sheamus me ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm like the only guy around who liked Axel vs Miz from MITB too. Thought it was Miz's only good match that wasn't vs Cesaro in a long time. Not saying it was great, but they had some nifty elements in it and it was good for me. Hoping the connection with Dolph is a strong one.

Oh yeah, I've seen Swagger vs Sheamus from Main Event. It's utterly brilliant. You must see it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Two notes from the MITB 2013 blu ray. The preshow match between Shield & Usos is NOT included in full, which really sucks. They cut out like a 5 minute chunk in the middle and start back up when the tower of doom is hit in the corner. Really no reason why they couldn't have given us the full match, it's a damn BLU RAY!

On a brighter note they did a wonderful job of editing the Ambrose ladder botch and made it look like he made it up in one felt swoop. That match is still so much fun, btw. Impossible to not get behind Cody. *** 3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The other portion of Yeah1993ing consists of writing wacky reviews and praising fatties smacking the shit out of each other. Don't forget that part.

I've given up on Axel. I did like the Jericho match, the Wisconsin Punk match (although I actually watched the stuff that happened in the WWE App. Added to the match >_>), and the Miz match had some cool stuff, but mainly from Miz. He also had good stuff with Tyson Kidd, but who doesn't? Guy can't perform an interesting control segment to save his life.

I've seen those two Swagger matches before, but it wouldn't hurt to watch them again. SWAGGER! (and MASTERS! and KAVAL!).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Oh yeah, I've seen Swagger vs Sheamus from Main Event. It's utterly brilliant. You must see it.


I did, and it is, Im dumbfounded I didn't come across it sooner, and that most dont pimp it out here, great natch that deserves to be on proverbial "MOTYC" list


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Two notes from the MITB 2013 blu ray. The preshow match between Shield & Usos is NOT included in full, which really sucks. They cut out like a 5 minute chunk in the middle and start back up when the tower of doom is hit in the corner. Really no reason why they couldn't have given us the full match, it's a damn BLU RAY!
> 
> On a brighter note they did a wonderful job of editing the Ambrose ladder botch and made it look like he made it up in one felt swoop. That match is still so much fun, btw. Impossible to not get behind Cody. *** 3/4


I didn't care for the match until the last three minutes, but that's dumb. I know that was the only noticeable part of the match, although WWE clipping stuff when it should be in full is garbage. Never understood why the pre-shows aren't on the DVDs to begin with.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I've given up on Axel. I did like the Jericho match, the Wisconsin Punk match (although I actually watched the stuff that happened in the WWE App. Added to the match >_>), and the Miz match had some cool stuff, but mainly from Miz. He also had good stuff with Tyson Kidd, but who doesn't? Guy can't perform an interesting control segment to save his life.
> 
> I've seen those two Swagger matches before, but it wouldn't hurt to watch them again. SWAGGER! (and MASTERS! and KAVAL!).


I don't dislike him so I'll deal with him as champ until he drops it. There are better options, sure. But hey, he doesn't ruffle my feathers and I can expect a good match from time to time so it could be much worse. The Tyson Kidd series was good stuff. They had sweet chemistry. Actually remember a promo by Axel that wasn't god awful either. It was decent and no doubt the best he'll ever produce.

Watch em again, woooo. :mark:



redskins25 said:


> I did, and it is, Im dumbfounded I didn't come across it sooner, and that most dont pimp it out here, great natch that deserves to be on proverbial "MOTYC" list


Been on my list ever since I saw it back in July. :hayley3

Jack Swagger himself is so underrated it's a crime.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Jack Swagger himself is so underrated it's a crime.


Interesting. I asked about him in another thread. I said that he has a great look, and reading about his amateur background, it seems that he would be at least somewhat impressive in the pro wrestling ring. Yet most people on this board seem to hate him.

Could you give me his top 5 matches, please? Yet another thing that I am definitely interested in getting to.

ETA: I saw the stipulation match he had with ADR, and enjoyed it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Fully Loaded 2000

Trish, Test and Albert vs Lita and the Hardys ***1/2
Edge and Christian vs The Acolytes **1/2
Taz vs Al Snow **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs Perry Saturn **
Rikishi vs Val Venis ***1/2
Undertaker vs Kurt Angle ***1/2
Triple H vs Chris Jericho ****1/2
The Rock vs Chris Benoit ****

So, this a pretty awesome show. Opener is super fun, with the main story coming in being Trish vs Lita. All six persons in this match pulled their own weight. Test and Albert were pretty awesome; makes me miss Test a lot. He was pretty nice in the ring. Lita got on of the biggest pops of the night.

The backstage segments with Taker/Angle were fucking hilarious. Taker trash talking is so :clap:lmao:mark::clap

Edge/Christian segments were also entertaining, as they were trying to get out of their tag title defense. Christian fakes food poisoning, until Foley catches him in the act, and the title match is back on. 

Tazz/Snow was a decent match. Snow worked pretty well here, but Tazz continued his run and got the victory. 

Steph/Trips backstage segments, with Steph getting flowers and a card saying, "It's true. It's true." One would think it was Angle...

Eddie Guerrero vs Saturn was okay. Some fuckery with Terri/Chyna, and Saturn uses Terri as a distraction and gets the win. 

Tag title match was whatever. Edge and Christian cut a promo on Dallas, then the Acolytes interrupt and BRADSHAW cuts a fucking awesome promo on Texas. His promo was better than the match. Edge gets them DQ'd. 

Rikishi/Val in the cage was loads of fun. Rikishi's splash from the top of the cage was crazy. Surprised Val lived to talk about that one. MORE TRISH :kobe3 Lita comes back with the belt that Trish used to whip her with after their match earlier and chases her off. Tazz is back and hits Rikishi with a camera, like on Smackdown, and Val gets the win. 

The three main events certainly delivered. Taker/Angle is probably seen different by everyone. It's most Taker in control, with Kurt getting some offense in, including a wrench shot that the ref doesn't see. Taker hits the chokeslam after some arm work from Kurt, followed by the Last Ride for the win. 

Last Man Standing match is so awesome, and it's only Trips third best PPV that year. I've got a write up of this match buried here somewhere, so I'll forego that for now. Must watch match.

Rock/Benoit is really good. I put the pencil down for this match, but Rock chasing Shane around with Shane wearing Rock's sunglasses is :lmao The finish worked for me. If Rock got DQ'd, he'd lose the title. So, Shane hits Hebner in the back with a chair, Rock chases Shane out of the ring with a chair and drops it and Hebner clearly sees him. Rock then locks in the crossface on Benoit, and Benoit submits. Hebner calls for the bell, but disqualifies Rock. Shane then hits Rock with a chair, busting him open. Shane and Benoit celebrate, only for Foley to come out and restart the match. Rock lasts through the crossface this time, gets out of it, and hits the Rock Bottom outta nowhere. Still the champion.


Probably one of the best PPV's that year. Royal Rumble is ahead of it, and maybe No Way Out.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What's the date for this Swagger/Sheamus match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Interesting. I asked about him in another thread. I said that he has a great look, and reading about his amateur background, it seems that he would be at least somewhat impressive in the pro wrestling ring. Yet most people on this board seem to hate him.
> 
> Could you give me his top 5 matches, please? Yet another thing that I am definitely interested in getting to.
> 
> ETA: I saw the stipulation match he had with ADR, and enjoyed it.


It's so odd. It's fun to hate him b/c he has a "goofy face" or had a World Championship reign that didn't sustain him on top. Awful. He's great, so I don't have to convince anyone who doesn't want to face facts.

Top five?

vs Christian - ECW 2/24/09
vs Sami Zayn - NXT 9/4/13
vs Rey Mysterio - Money in the Bank 2010
vs Christian - Backlash 2009
vs Sheamus - Main Event 7/24/13

There's more from various years including the Matt Hardy match with the title switch that's great + everything else he did vs Christian & Mysterio. PLUS, the sprints vs Bourne, great Kaval, Del Rio, & Masters matches, series vs Finlay, & matches vs John Cena among others. He really has way more good than bad. Only bad matches I can think of (or ones that I didn't care for) were when his opponents were hacks. Pretty standard stuff. No different from the rest. Oh, I forgot about his series vs John Morrison in early Spring of 2010. I need to watch those again myself, but I remember them being kind of fantastic.



Saint Dick said:


> What's the date for this Swagger/Sheamus match?


7/24/13.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

And it's the bomb? Didn't hear anything about that one at all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Put it in Swagger's top five for best/my favorite matches he's had, so you know it.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks so much, HayleySabin! I'm copying & pasting your post for later. Will post my thoughts once I get to those. 

And yeah, when I watched something old, I noticed the goofy face thing with him. But he actually has a look right now that could be very imposing if they marketed him right. I feel like they could do so much more with him, and that's me saying that without having seen more of him. Just from a presence standpoint alone, I feel like they're wasting him. He could come across as a real badass enforcer/destroyer in a faction, I think. At least from a physical standpoint. Maybe the problem for people is that they are used to him in a certain kind of way because of the past, and that hinders him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

To some credit by WWE, the demotion of Swagger for a tiny bit is fitting considering he screwed up big time himself with the drug/DUI charges following his massive push earlier this year. Should it kind of be diminished by now? Sure, I'd say he paid his price and now he can move on. The duo with Cesaro is great, unfortunately they have a bad hand until a face team becomes champs again. b/c until then, they won't get anywhere near the straps. Only being the workhorses of the division. And used really well in NXT. Another piece of their booking I don't quite understand, but hey, I'm not complaining.

The look thing isn't even logical. Some always make the comment of how he just looks funny in certain occasions as if that has anything to do with the talent he shows in the ring. Far too many conversations had where the the lot that say they dislike him comes from an appearance reason alone. And not that crummy "WWE likes looks" mantra either. Always "he's funny looking". Meanwhile, I'm left asking well what about his talent? Do you deny his talent isn't at least good to be used in good capacity? Then the answers I get back are never straightforward. It's bizarre. Means nothing to me if someone out there is a fan or not, just the reasons for any "hate" around is completely confusing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Swagger is criminally underrated as a wrestler, yeah. He OWNED that Tag Turmoil at NOC, bar nobody else. But even after paying the price, I wouldn't put him anywhere near the higher card for now. Not before Cesaro at least.

Plus, because we're in one of mentioning high tier Sheamus stuff, Sheamus/Harper on NXT was bossly.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course. Sheamus vs Harper dream match more than delivered. Still can't believe it happened. WWE is so great with NXT.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

My only problem with Swagger is how fucking dull he is on the microphone. He is also devoid of personality. Jack Swagger certainly deserves a spot on the roster due to his talent in the ring, but he shouldn't be in the world title scene in my opinion. I saw that match with Sheamus and it was really good, but I'm not sure about it being a match of the year candidate.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't see how it isn't. It's a fabulous match. Better than most given on PPV. By a country mile in that regard. And of course Swagger sucks on the mic. That's why he has Zeb Colter. No different as to why Triple H has been talking over Orton during this power trip or Heyman over Axel. b/c the mouthpieces are there for a reason.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't recall it very well tbh. How many times is it better than that 5 minute filler @ TLC 2011?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

My biggest pet peeve with Swagger is his finisher. Not the Ankle Lock itself, but how it's a leg submission hold yet he never works on his opponent's leg/foot throughout the match. It's "psychology" 101. Same can be said for Del Rio and his armbar, which is fucking awful btw.

And people think Angle is bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Don't recall it very well tbh. How many times is it better than that 5 minute filler @ TLC 2011?


A ton. And that filler match isn't half bad for what it was. But the scale they're working on at Main Event is MUCH greater.



Alim said:


> My biggest pet peeve with Swagger is his finisher. Not the Ankle Lock itself, but how it's a leg submission hold yet he never works on his opponent's leg/foot throughout the match. It's "psychology" 101. Same can be said for Del Rio and his armbar, which is fucking awful btw.
> 
> And people think Angle is bad.


Del Rio works the arm non-stop in his matches.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Don't see how it isn't. It's a fabulous match. Better than most given on PPV. By a country mile in that regard. And of course Swagger sucks on the mic. That's why he has Zeb Colter. No different as to why Triple H has been talking over Orton during this power trip or Heyman over Axel. b/c the mouthpieces are there for a reason.


That's a good point, but the duo did absolutely nothing for me leading up to the Wrestlemania match. Maybe WWE deserves some of the blame but yeah.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Very rarely.

Miz too with that awful figure four


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Alim said:


> My biggest pet peeve with Swagger is his finisher. Not the Ankle Lock itself, but how it's a leg submission hold yet he never works on his opponent's leg/foot throughout the match. It's "psychology" 101. Same can be said for Del Rio and his armbar, which is fucking awful btw.
> 
> And people think Angle is bad.


Angle rarely if ever works the leg as well. And Del Rio does non-stop target the arm, aggressively at that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NO! said:


> That's a good point, but the duo did absolutely nothing for me leading up to the Wrestlemania match. Maybe WWE deserves some of the blame but yeah.


Perhaps they do, but fair enough. Not to mention that program severely lacked something fierce for build too. Unsure if that plays a part in Swagger's mistake or not. Then again, why would they tank build all b/c he screwed up? That doesn't do Del Rio any favors. Their matches clicked luckily. Aside from the I Quit. They were fucked from jump street in that one.



Alim said:


> Very rarely.
> 
> Miz too with that awful figure four


Miz yes. Del Rio, nope. Guy is all about demolishing the arm for his finisher. It's been that way since he got there. Only dumb thing Del Rio did/does is lower the knee pad for his vicious Tyler Black-esque low center superkick. That makes no sense whatsoever. Not sure why he does it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Del Rio/Swagger Smackdown match reminded me of Angle/Benoit in a good way. WM 29 was good too. But boy oh boy, the ER match was a big time DUD. Which imo was the only point where ADR's in-ring work this year was awful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything about it was dreadful. The worst thing was the ref though. One simple shot with anything, including a kick, and the ref was all over them. Just a poorly worked match from top to bottom. Best to ignore and all of the other Del Rio vs Swagger matches are much more worth the time. Their matches on Smackdown = :mark:

Both of those guys rule.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Swagger talk? Watch his Extreme Rules match or whatever stip name it got against Dreamer in late 08 (on ECW, duh). I haven't seen it since it happened (will again once that guy finishes uploading all of ECW 08 obviously), but I have super fond memories of it and off the top of my head can't think of a better Dreamer match (which doesn't say much because I can't think of many Dreamer matches actually worth seeing). Loved Swagger back in the day. His FCW run, then ECW where he fucking killed it with Christian and others... then he moved to Raw and DIED. For like, years. Every now and then he'd show up back from the dead or something, but eh, he just kept dying. He's getting back on track a little now. He and Cesaro could be an epic team if WWE put some effort into pushing them. If they weren't heels they'd be PERFECT to take down THE SHIELD and actually be credible victors in that match. Who the fuck on the babyface side of things could possibly knock off THE SHIELD? PTP? LOL. Usos? :lmao LOL HAHAHAHAHAHA. Uhhh... who else is there? Henry and Show would be perfect but Henry isn't back yet (though apparently been cleared to wrestle for like 2 weeks), and Show is busy crying like a giant baby bitch. Not sure how he goes from that to being granted a tag title shot by HHH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Once Big Show snaps, he'll take the tag gold to spite Trips. That's better than nothing. Plus, we'll all get what we want. Show & Henry as a team vs Rollins & Reigns.

I to have fond memories of Swagger vs Dreamer Extreme Rules match. Legit the match that made me a Swagger fan. Saw it and then _*boom*_. I dig this cat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of Reigns, how awesome was he on Raw when all the babyfaces came down to save Bryan? Rollins and Ambrose were getting like, triple teamed each and Reigns was still fighting and just fucking killed Kofi with a Spear. HE DOESN'T AFRAID OF ANYTHING!

THE BEEFIES VS THE SHIELD desperately needs to happen. Aren't the Usos #1 contenders again after Raw? LOL the fuck they gonna do? Hope they like, lose quickly in a throwaway match on Raw, then Ambrose comes down to triple team them with Rollins and Reigns and BOOM! SOMEBODY GONNA THEY ASS KICKED! Henry returns, Show comes out with him and BAM! Tag title match set up for Battle Ground.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

I was going insane after he killed fuckers while being ganged up on. Thought The Shield was going to dominate after he murdered Kingston. Bless you Reigns.

Too bad that won't happen. We're probably going to have to stomach another Shield vs Usos match on PPV _(actual PPV)_ and run the risk of having those twonks actually beat them. History repeats itself, right? Lets hope Usos job for what will be the 50th time and they go back to Superstars or Total Divas where they belong.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on HHH/Jericho HIAC? Feel like watcing some HIAC soon


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Orton made me like him a little more by killing The Jiz earlier in the night.

Orton level of love before killing Jiz - 0/100
Orton level of love after killing Jiz - 10/100

Reigns made me practically LOVE HIM IN A **** WAY when he speared Kofi while getting beat down. 

Reigns level of love before spearing Kofi - 70/100
Reigns level of love after spearing Kofi - 1028283921873367/100


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Thoughts on HHH/Jericho HIAC? Feel like watcing some HIAC soon


Some people love it and consider it underrated as fuck.

Personally I think its trash.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAW oficially couldn't suck b/c of what Reigns did to Kofi. 10/10, A+, *****.

I have to refresh myself on the Jericho vs Triple H HIAC. I've gone up and down with it. I'll probably notice a crapton of well...crap by Triple H during it. Jericho beats up a ref too, fyi. Highlight of the match by memory.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Was it the Jericho/HHH HIAC match that injured poor Timmy White and led to the hilarious Tim White suicide attempts several years later?

Oh jesus. They were fucking great. Dropping a toaster in a bath. Only in WWE could suicide be hilarious and considered ENTERTAINMENT.

:vince2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The best one was with the giant industrial fan where Tim threw his whole body in and all the blood shot onto Josh. Then the next week he had a bandage on his head apparently still living among us.

As Booker T would say: this is ridiculous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tim White is still acknowledged by WWE but Benoit isn't? BULLSHIT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SUICIDE IS SUICIDE, WWE.

why leave Benoit out? It isn't like he did anything else that was drastic or bad. Wait. That's a conspiracy, I swear.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kevin Sullivan did it!

BENOIT IS INNOCENT! 

Watching the rest of NWO 00. Just got the most awesome screen cap of Big Show. 2 matches to go and people will see it :mark:.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

You guys should definietely watch this weeks NXT, Breeze is just awesome


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Way Out 2000*

This is my nightmare... AND I DECIDE WHEN I WAKE UP!


*Kurt Angle Vs Chris Jericho - WWF Intercontinental Championship Match*

:lmao Jericho kicks Kurt right in the face on a moonsault attempt off the steel steps.

:lmao at Tim White not giving a shit what they are doing on the outside because he's quite clearly having a conversation on his head piece.

Oh hey Jericho, are you aware of selling? Because your arm was in trouble about 10 seconds ago and here you are hitting a fucking double arm back breaker. Knob. Yeah, I'm complaining about someone no selling in a Kurt Angle match and it's NOT Kurt Angle!

Fuck me, he does it again. This time with a fucking double powerbomb. Oh but he holds his arm afterwards, so that makes it alright I guess...

At least Angle is on top of his game for the most part. He keeps going back to the arm in hopes that it'll actually weaken and Jericho might fucking sell the damn thing.

OLYMPIC SLAM! And Jericho kicks out. Because even in 2000 his finisher was fucking useless...

:lmao at Angle trying to deck Chyna with the European title belt. WHAT A GUY! Then Chyna gets blasted into the steel steps by Jericho. Lionsault, title belt to the face, and Angle is now the EuroContinental Champion!

Solid match overall but definitely has its problems (Jericho...). Their KOTR match later in the year would be better.

:lmao Earl Hebner comes down to dispute the decision... and Tim White fucking ignores him and buggers off :lmao.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Dudley Boys Vs The New Age Outlaws - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

Shame Billy went into this match already injured, a proper PPV tag team match between these two teams could have been fucking tremendous. Always wondered how the tag division would have been had Billy not been injured and the Outlaws were still together the entire year. Would the "3 team" thing have still been just that? Would the Outlaws have been inserted into the Dudleys/Hardys/E&C feud? 

All the times I watched this match in the past I never knew or noticed that Billy was injured going in. Then after watching a shoot where Billy says it, I can't help but notice that he never uses his left arm, he holds it in pain after the first exchange before the bell, and spends the majority of the match on the apron.

Match is odd, given that both teams are heels, and the injured Billy didn't help. It is pretty amazing to see Billy get the hot tag and fucking OWN the Dudley Boys with one hand :lmao. Then he gets dragged to the outside and hit in the shoulder with a pipe. 3-D to Road Dogg who isn't even the legal man and the titles change hands! Road Dogg is upset. They split up following this, and Billy gets beat up and kicked out of DX on Raw either the next night or a week or so later following surgery.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Mark Henry Vs Viscera*

Match is happening because Viscera gave MAE YOUNG a big splash. While she was pregnant with Mark's child. So is THAT the reason she only have birth to a hand?

TAKER GET WELL sign in the crowd .

:lmao there is a faint chant in the crowd and I swear I thought they were saying "Daniel Bryan" at first.

2 big beefie bastards battling it out here. Yeah it's not the best example of such a thing but it's still fun to me. Henry takes about 2 or 3 huge bumps into the steel steps and the ref doesn't give a fuck . Boring chant starts up. Cunts.

SAMOAN DROP TO MARK HENRY. BY VISCERA. BIG BEEFIE DROP.

Mae Young shows up to check on Mark. She gets shoved down and Big Vis sets up another splash! SCOOP SLAM! 1...2..3...what? LOL.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - #1 Contendership Match*

APA :mark:. Shame they are just there to protect Terri, who has returned tonight after the Dudley Boys put her through a table.

:lmao the ref actually gets too distracted to make a pin because Jeff is taking off his top :lmao. Guess he's gay for Jeff. I'm gay for Moleman.

Ok, so this match. Best I can come up with is that both teams are still babyface, and are sort of friends, and have a sort of "friendly rivalry" going on. Both want to be the #1 tag team, and both want to really get "made" and shit. So both teams here are just going all out to prove they deserve the title shot and as a result a lot of it is really back and forth stuff. On paper it makes sense and I'm fine with what it seems like they were trying to achieve... but fuck me it's terribly done lol.

Whole thing feels like some move exhibition from both teams as they go back and forth trying to show everyone what they can do. They are just using this match as a chance to show off, nothing more. It feels awkward at times and the whole structure of the match comes across as one giant motherfucking mess.

And how LONG is this match? 15 minutes? Feels like an hour. It just draaaaaaaaags like fuck. Then Terri screws the Hardy Boys out of the win. APA kill the Hardy Boys. That's that. Hardy Boys still get a title shot at WM along with E&C so this was UTTERLY POINTLESS in the long run too :lmao.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Tazz Vs The Big Bossman*

NOB. Signs were awesome in the AE.

So this starts off as a fun little brawl... then about 2 minutes in Prince Albert attacks Tazz and they double team him. They keep beating him down but Tazz keeps getting back up. Until they BREAK A NIGHT STICK over his head.

Wish it went longer.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*X-Pac Vs Kane - No Holds Barred Match*

How the fuck did Kane get a girlfriend? And one that looks like Tori? What's wrong me me? 

Later in the year, X-Pac would have a great fight with Jericho. Kane would have a great fight with Jericho. So can they have a great fight against each other? I hope so :mark:.

Oh man, Paul Bearer is the GOAT. X-Pac decks, and I mean fucking DECKS Kane with the ring bell and grabs a steel chair, so Paul Bearer charges at X-Pac, knocks the chair out of his hand and forces X-Pac to the floor, the proceeds to pummel his face in!!! Then Tori tries to make the save so Bearer chases her around the ring :lmao. 

"KANE'S FACE IS HORRIFYING, WHO KNOWS WHAT HIS THINGY LOOKS LIKE!" :lmao

Kane is booked as a fucking MONSTER here, just sitting up constantly regardless of what X-Pac throws at him. Ring bell. Low blow. X-Factor. Kane is on FIRE! Uhhh... you know what I mean.

X-Pac, despite having his offence rendered useless is good too, and his moves that he uses to get Kane down now and then all look legit in the sense that you could believe he can take out Kane with them.

CHOKESLAME TO X-PAC. TOMBSTONE TO TORI!

Steel steps into Kane's face, X-Pac jumps on top and gets the 3. They'd have to finish their long standing feud at WM... in a fucking TAG MATCH. With Rikishi. Because that makes sense.

This was enjoyable. Nothing on the 2 Jericho matches I mentioned, but a good affair still.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*2 Cool & Rikishi Vs Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn*

Dean Malenko is apparently so dull, even SilverVision forgot to include his name in the match listing on the back of the DVD :lmao.

Eddie Guerrero brings some "moral support" for his friends since he's still recovering from a dislocated arm. The moral support is a pipe. Rikishi takes him out before the match starts so 2 Cool are safe for now.

STINK FACE TO BENOIT. And that's where his missing tooth went .

Rikishi sells his injured leg really well. HE SELLS IT WHILE RUNNING THE ROPES. Not often I see that tbh.

:lmao Malenko is pretty awesome in this. He just keeps running in and decking people. First with a dropkick to Rikishi's bad leg, then he fucking blasts Scotty in the face with a clothesline to break up a Worm attempt. Malenko needs to just stay on the apron and run in randomly. He'd be remembered better if he did that .

*Benoit chops the shit out of Scotty* JR: "Man that just KILLS you" Lawler: "That's why they call him th crippler!" OH THE FORSHADOWING! 

Rikishi gets the hot tag and STILL sells the leg and does it extremely well too. Yeah he does some fast moving shit, but he actually sells the leg while doing it. You can clearly see him limping as he runs. More people need to learn how to sell the leg like that.

THE WORM! W! O! R! M! PLUS 3 MORE LETTERS BECAUSE THE FANS HAVEN'T STARTED THE LETTER CHANT YET SO SCOTTY DOES A FEW MORE HOPS LOL!

BONZAI! Rikishi pins Malenko.

So this is good. And fun and shit. I liked it quite a bit. I always kinda dreaded watching this, every time I've watched the event. I don't know why. Plenty of talent in the match and shit. Hell even now I've watched it again and like it, the match still doesn't appeal to me on paper lol. Crazy.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*The Rock Vs The Big Show - WrestleMania Title Shot On the Line*

So The Big Show wins the RR. But The Rock is announced the winner. Big Show PROVES IT. undoubtedly. He doesn't act like a cunt. He just wants what is rightfully his. And The Rock treats him like a fucking piece of shit and the fans turn on him. So Show is now the heel because... I dunno.

Plus, how can you hate a guy with THIS facial hair?










:lmao

AE style brawling on the outside to start things, but both guys take some pretty sweet bumps that puts it ahead of the usually crappy outside brawling. Show takes a cool looking back body drop over the barricade to the floor for instance, and Rock takes a clothesline from Show on the concrete that looks NASTY. Always been a fan of this match all things considering (Rock being involved...), and so far it's looking to hold up nicely. And when you've seen a match a bunch of times that's all you can ask for .

Show goes retarded and attempts to deck Rock with a chair (ha, deck, chair... get it?). IT WILL GET YOU DQ'D YA DUMB GIANT. Then Rocky smacks into the ref and good old Earl Hebner just fucking goes for it and lobs himself outside :lmao. Tim White comes down to make a cover, Earl pulls him out and they argue. SHANE MCMAHON IS BACK! He encourages Tim White to beat up Earl (seriously wtf is going on? :lmao ). People's Elbow! CHAIR TO THE ROCK'S HEAD BREAKING UP THE PEOPLE'S ELBOW! GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! Show wins! Show wins! Show wins! Big Show is going to WrestleMania!!!

All in all this is good shit. Good brawling, Show does fine in control, ref stuff is hilarious, and Shane O'Mac screwing The Rock out of his WM title shot makes me :mark:. Shame it didn't stick .

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - WWF Title Vs Career Hell in a Cell Match*

:mark:

Cactus MUST win the WWF title here or else his career is OVER *wink wink*.

:lmao at JR and Lawler being all super serious and talking about how dangerous this match is going to be and how Foley's career could be over... then they randomly switch to Angle backstage being all happy and getting attacked by Jericho and thrown in the trunk of his car :lmao. Talk about a mood killer :lmao.

Speaking of killer, DAMN at Stephanie. I mean DAMN. 

So the big story going into this one is how Cactus plans on jumping off the top of the cell right onto HHH... so HHH has the door padlocked up about 10 times! Poor Cactus can't leave now! Or can he...?

Sweet mother of Jebus, that steel steps spot. HHH just LAUNCHES them into the face of Cactus. And Cactus runs head first into them. Glorious. Then he runs head first into a chair shot. No wonder the guy was driving for like 40 minutes going nowhere because he couldn't remember where he lived. He's had more brain cells killed from chair shots than Andy & Craig have killed via alcohol COMBINED. Yes, COMBINED. Guy should be a fucking vegetable.

Lawler busts out a great line about cactus having magnets implanted into his head years ago because it's attracted to metal objects. I think this match alone proves that lol :lmao.

Can't help but laugh at the elbow spot off the ropes with a chair, where the chair smashes back into Foley's face. Injures him for real, but the way it happens is just funny. To me anyway. I'm a sick twat .

CACTUS JUST MADE HIMSELF A DOOR! As well as wrestling a HIAC match, Cactus also found the time for some Carpentry. Impressive!

Ok not really, he just threw the steps through the cell and created a way out. Piledriver on the table, and Cactus slowly begins to climb the cell! STEPHANIE! YEY! YUM YUM! Bah, she stops Foley from climbing the cell.

:lmao at HHH diving over the barricade to escape the 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire. Awesome.

CAPTAIN BANG BANG! :lmao wasn't that like, Bart's stage name as a male stripper in a random flash forward thingy that Marge has in an episode of The Simpsons?

OH MY GOD CACTUS HAS BROKEN IN HALF! He falls off the cell through a table, but eh, it doesn't quite have the impact of previous falls. The HBK one looked better. The Mankind one obviously looked better, as did the other Mankind one from the Kane match that most people forget about. Still, MAN GO THROUGH TABLE FROM GREAT HEIGHT. ME LIKELY. EEEE SEEE DUB! EEEE SEEE DUB! 

:lmao at Cactus nearly killing JR and Lawler when he tries to throw a chair up to the top of the cell and it keeps missing and landing on the announcers table. In the end he gives up :lmao.

Oh man, HHH nearly falling through the cell in the corner is a scary yet cool moment. Wonder if it was meant to be like that or not. Imagine if HHH fell through the corner and like, just landed on the floor? No reign of terror in 03! 

LOOK AT THESE TWO MEN. LOOK AT WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO EACH OTHERS' BODIES!

OH MY GOD THAT 2X4 IN BARBED WIRE IS BURNING!

OH MY GOD! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! THE CAGE BROKE, THE RING BROKE, AND CACTUS JACK HAS BROKEN IN HALF!!!

I miss the ring breaking that way. When was the last time it happened? I can only remember the 2 times when the ring literally broke, but not like a hole in the mat. Oh yeah, Undertaker Vs Edge HIAC, right? And that was kinda done crappy. This is probably the best instance of it. Think it happened like 2 more times later in the year, both by Kane chokeslamming Undertaker .

Cactus is still moving! Damn, what a tough bastard. He won't give up his lifelong dream like that.

Pedigree. Lifelong dream over. Great, great match no doubt, but I do feel the finish kinda falls flat (ha) after the cage bump. Probably should have ended with HHH pinning him there, rather than Cactus getting back up only to be punched a few times and then Pedigreed. Seemed unnecessary to me. But aside from that this match is tremendous. Not as good as the Street Fight, but damn this is a brutal battle. 

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 13.5*​


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

*Night Of Champions DVD Cover Revealed*


----------



## austin316 G.O.A.T (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: NIght Of Champions DVD Cover Revealed*

Looks amazing


----------



## Green Light (Sep 17, 2011)

*Re: NIght Of Champions DVD Cover Revealed*

Wtf is that to the right of his left arm? Looks like a grey cat's head

The ghost of Gizmo perhaps


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

E&C/Hardys NWO 2000 was great dammit, underrated to death. And I certainly didn't feel it dragged :side:

Just remembered another really good match from earlier this year, Bryan/Ziggler before WM.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Damn, we need a no way out anthology DVD 

Set one: 2000-2004
Set 2: 2005-2009

That is a great idea


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

*Re: Night Of Champions DVD Cover Revealed*

I will need to pick this up just for the cover. looks awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are me and Cal the only ones that liked Austin/Jericho from NWO 2002?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For my memory i'm gonna side with Cal on thinking the Hardys tag match was dull. Been YEARS since I last saw it, but I remember thinking it took forever and had a stupid finish. Why did Terri screw 'em? Really? What was her motives? To get Edge & Christian and that backfired? I don't remember. b/c it doesn't matter.

Radicalz tag sounds fun. As does both the matches that were WAY too short. Henry vs Viscera. Fuck. That sounds so good now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are me and Cal the only ones that liked Austin/Jericho from NWO 2002?


Probably .



HayleySabin said:


> For my memory i'm gonna side with Cal on thinking the Hardys tag match was dull. Been YEARS since I last saw it, but I remember thinking it took forever and had a stupid finish. Why did Terri screw 'em? Really? What was her motives? To get Edge & Christian and that backfired? I don't remember. b/c it doesn't matter.
> 
> Radicalz tag sounds fun. As does both the matches that were WAY too short. Henry vs Viscera. Fuck. That sounds so good now.


She did it because apparently the Hardy Boys didn't visit her in the hospital after she was put through a table buy those damn Dudleys. I think. Still was stupid. Fuck her and her dinosaur face.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: NIght Of Champions DVD Cover Revealed*



Green Light said:


> Wtf is that to the right of his left arm? Looks like a grey cat's head
> 
> The ghost of Gizmo perhaps


It appears to be Mil Mascaras. 

Cool cover but I think this is better.....


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't know why would anyone pick up NOC this year tbh. Orton/Bryan and Punk/Heyman ruled, everything else is totally underwhelming. Still a better event than Vengeance 07, but not else. Compared to Payback/MITB/SSlam, this was not a good outing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> She did it because apparently the Hardy Boys didn't visit her in the hospital after she was put through a table buy those damn Dudleys. I think. Still was stupid. Fuck her and her dinosaur face.


Dumbest moment of 2000? Could be. If Naked Mideon didn't exist. Table spot she died on owned though.

seriously don't understand how WM 16/2000 was such a miss of a show. Guess they really wanted to cram as many guys on their roster as they could. Kane vs X-Pac feud ending in a random tag match? Really guys? After a steel cage, no holds barred, and many other battles, THAT'S what does it? Thankfully the tag team championship match happened. Aka the only tag match that really should have been on the card.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah WM 16 was just weird. Kane Vs X-Pac could have had some big bloody battle to finally end their feud. Then the triangle ladder match. Rock Vs HHH one on one with Foley remaining retired. Hardcore title match was fine and got a ton of guys on the card so that could stay. Angle Vs just Jericho might have worked. Big Show... fuck knows. Benoit? I dunno either. Radicals tag should have been against someone else. Or at least leave Chyna out of it. Urgh. Angle having the 2 mid card title didn't help things tbh. Should have dropped one on TV to give to another match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I tell you why WM 16 sucked:

1) It was, supposedly, the biggest WrestleMania ever. It was called WrestleMania 2000 for a reason. So, they decided it would be smart to cram as much paychecks as possible and try and cram the entire roster into the show. It obviously flopped as an idea.

2) The McMahon's.

That's all.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Rock/HHH should have been a single match rather than a four way elimination.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wrestlemania 2000 totally did not suck, it was one of my favorite n64 games ever after WCW vs NWO: Revenge . I had my own created wrestler named 6-Pack and he came out to "No Chance in Hell" and used the Tombstone as his finisher!

Fuck that game was great.....


Anywho, Mania2000 is in the bottom 5-10 for Mania's IMO, only 1-2-3-4-6-12 and 27 are worse off the top of my head. That main even should have just been Rocky vs Trips with Foley as the guest referee, Kane vs Xpac, Jericho vs Angle, and Benoit vs Big Show, the Triangle Ladder Match, and Too Cool vs Radicalz, plus the obligatory women's match. That's it. Such a missed opportunity.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bah, No Mercy was better anywho. 

Still, WrestleMania 2000 was a badass game.

:cena4


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Main event four way is good but it suffers from the idea of it being essentially a half baked video game idea. Doesn't feel like Wrestlemania in the slightest, that and the Angle-Jericho-Benoit match fucking SUCKS DICK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, I've already watched and rambled about TEN WWF 2000 PPV's? Awesome. 4 more to go! Rebellion is up next, then Insurrextion, then Backlash and then FULLY LOADED.

2000 PPV'S on the CAL SCALE so far:

Judgement Day - 17
Royal Rumble - 17
Unforgiven - 15
King of the Ring - 14.5
No Way Out - 13.5
SummerSlam - 13
WrestleMania 16 - 10
No Mercy - 7
Survivor Series - 6
Armageddon - 4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> It appears to be Mil Mascaras.
> 
> Cool cover but I think this is better.....


:lmao

The cover is great no doubt but the event sucks and it's gettin pretty ridiculous that the 'E spoils every event with their covers.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

2013 on the Cal Scale

Royal Rumble - 2.5
Elimination Chamber - 8.5
Wrestlemania - 18
Extreme Rules - 8
Payback - 10
Money in the Bank - 13
Summerslam - 16

Wrestlemania holding up the best for me despite having one of the worst main events ever, okay. Only because the Summerslam card garnered ZERO points outside of the three biggest matches on the card. Dolph/Langston, Kane/Wyatt, Divas were all garbage while Rhodes/Sandow was just THERE.

Guess I just enjoyed Ryback/Henry, SHIELD tag, & Brock/HHH more than most with a stellar grade on Punk/Taker.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam and MITB obliterate mania IMO cal scale or not

ADR/Christian was grear and the cherry on top for ss 13


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm the only person in the universe who has Brock/HHH > Bryan/Cena though.

I've only seen Cena/Bryan once though so that might need a revision. I don't see how it's a debate between Punk/Brock & Cena/Bryan for MOTN though, that shit will always perplex me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> 2013 on the Cal Scale
> 
> Royal Rumble - 2.5
> Elimination Chamber - 8.5
> ...



I have Summerslam ahead of Mania for the simple fact that Punk-Lesnar>Punk-Taker (though not by much) Daniel Bryan-Cena>Brock-Trips and ADR-Christan>>>Rock-Cena. Wrestlemanias undercard was indeniably superior, Swagger-ADR>Rhodes-Sandow, Ryback-Henry>>Kane-Wyatt, and the Shield Tag>>Mixed Tag. But that wasn't enough for me to put it over SummerSlam as the best event of the year.

I think most people's beef with Mania29 is that is was 100% predictable. SummerSlam had the best curveball WWE has cooked up in a while, so the event is remembered more fondly. 

Is the Sheamus vs Henry Strap Match from ER any good? It sounds amazing on paper, like a potential MotY contender, oddly I don't remember anything from it and I saw it live.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The strap match is the worst match I've ever seen Henry in.

Avoid.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

It's funny you say that because I was just like you , after my first watch I thought punk/Brock was in the five range and was worlds ahead of cena/Bryan , since then I've watched cena/Bryan 4x and never get tried of it, punk/Brock has came back to earth because of the ending but still great not MOTN IMO


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> The strap match is the worst match I've ever seen Henry in.
> 
> Avoid.


Ah, damn. That looked like some amazing gem haha fuck.

How about Trips-Sheamus Street fight from ER10'? If you can't tell, I'm in the mood for a fucking FIGHT.


Edit- Redskins, you're right, Punk-Lesnar isn't just MotN, it's MotY! It's freaking flawless in my eyes. Bryan-Cena was great too, behind only Punks SS/WM matches as the best this year, but it just doesn't have the intensity and story of Punker-Lesnar.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Extreme Rules match between Sheamus & HHH?

Avoid IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Yeah WM 16 was just weird. Kane Vs X-Pac could have had some big bloody battle to finally end their feud. Then the triangle ladder match. Rock Vs HHH one on one with Foley remaining retired. Hardcore title match was fine and got a ton of guys on the card so that could stay. Angle Vs just Jericho might have worked. Big Show... fuck knows. Benoit? I dunno either. Radicals tag should have been against someone else. Or at least leave Chyna out of it. Urgh. Angle having the 2 mid card title didn't help things tbh. Should have dropped one on TV to give to another match.


Big Show vs Benoit would have been cool. That seemed like a good way to have Show go face _(like he did post-WM anyways)_ and have the Shane & Benoit union first come about. Radicalz losing to Too Cool was a surprise and kind of weak considering all those dudes were new and rolling. I didn't mind their opponents. Could have subbed out Chyna for Rikishi, even if that was nearly a carbon copy of the NWO six man. Chyna being there did serve a purpose b/c of Eddie & all. Still, she could have been ringside, got an entrance, yada yada. Bossman should have probably worked vs Taz to give Taz a singles match I guess, & the Head Cheese match. Oof. I love Al Snow, but god damn that served next to no purpose. Snow could have been European Champion then and did something there. Val Venis sure was happy to go from European Champ to reffing a "cat fight", huh? This show was such a mess pardon about two matches: Hardcore & Ladder. Well, six person was fine. Won't deny. Ironically all the matches that did belong on the show were the ones that actually were good. That's actually scary irony when I think about it. Still annoyed the most by the Kane vs X-Pac plan and having Rock wait till Backlash to win the gold just to have Vince go heel. Imagine Austin doing the return at WRESTLE FRIGGIN MANIA? It books itself.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> 2013 on the Cal Scale
> 
> Royal Rumble - 2.5
> Elimination Chamber - 8.5
> ...


SummerSlam > WM. Perhaps I'm biased. I probably am, but I'm a big supporter of 29 too. Only match I didn't like was Cena vs Rock II. Trash. Rest was good stuff with three matches being really good/great. Six man, Taker vs Punker, & Brock vs Trips. SummerSlam was booked nearly perfectly from top to bottom. If only the opener was better it would have been. Nothing really took away from the show so it's a total positive. Plus, like I said, biased. Fuck it. I saw FIRE live. I didn't care. Not to mention the Wyatt's entrance was worth the memory alone. That stuff was epic. Then you move onto the triple main event. Good lord. Rhodes vs Sandow was an underrated sprint, I thought. Good action all around in a short amount of time.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I get it when it comes to people saying Summerslam is better though, however if anybody considers the likes of Royal Rumble (ESPECIALLY), Payback, Night of Champions, Extreme Rules, & Elimination Chamber to all be good shows...

Then I can't help you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

lol Royal Rumble. That's not going to be topped as worst show of the year. Idc how filler and poorly placed the matches were at NOC. That show is a million times better than Rumble. And that show sucked. Payback is ok, but marred by two of the three main events lacking. Chamber is bleh outside of about three matches. None being the namesake of the show. Extreme Rules was fucked. A great main event & a fun tag title match _(although with a stigma behind it b/c it was weaker by comparison of TV matches)_ is all it really had. I didn't hate the LMS though. Only Cena's performance was pretty mediocre, but Ryback made it come together as solid and watchable. Wished the finish was better but eh. With that show, you couldn't ask for much. I liked most of MITB. I want to rewatch the All Stars ladder match b/c that is the only real blemish off the top of my head. It was fine. Fine is the drawback to a match that should have been a lot better. Oh and Ryback vs Jericho was just horrible. Managed to have three GREAT matches and two more serviceable undercard bouts too. Mentioned how I actually did like Axel vs Miz earlier.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I get it when it comes to people saying Summerslam is better though, however if anybody considers the likes of Royal Rumble (ESPECIALLY), Payback, Night of Champions, Extreme Rules, & Elimination Chamber to all be good shows...
> 
> Then I can't help you.


I'm with you there, Mania wasn't nearly as bad as some people said it was, other than Twice in a Lifetime every match delivers. Brock-Trips was my favorite out of their series (by a considerable margin actually. Fuck that Cage match, ugh). Other than the main event my only gripe was how predictable it was. Ill take a well executed predictable card over a horribly executed curveball (Royal Rumble 2013, one of the WOAT for any PPV).

I need a fucking fight dammit, which Big Show-Sheamus match ruled the world? Was it their cage match? I can't remember...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Elimination Chamber was a great show, I don't care what any of you say. The main event doesn't make the PPV, as you've made clear with the Mania Cal Scale.



Cactus Jack said:


> How about Trips-Sheamus Street fight from ER10'? If you can't tell, I'm in the mood for a fucking FIGHT..


Not too great. Really drags.

Show/Sheamus from HIAC was the tops. ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of the Show vs Sheamus matches are fabulous, Cactus Jack.

Corey, quit your EC babble. It was mediocre despite having a glorious six man tag on it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh you just wait CODY, I've got the blu ray on the way, then I'll watch the whole show again and talk about how GREAT it was!  

On a random note, is Summerslam 2010 truly a one match show? Kane/Mysterio & Orton/Sheamus not as good as their other affairs? I know about the DQ finish.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked REY/KANE on that show, rey really could do no wrong that year


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh you just wait CODY, I've got the blu ray on the way, then I'll watch the whole show again and talk about how GREAT it was!
> 
> On a random note, is Summerslam 2010 truly a one match show? Kane/Mysterio & Orton/Sheamus not as good as their other affairs? I know about the DQ finish.


I need to buy it myself just to legit own the six man. Having Show vs Del Rio & Cesaro vs Miz only make owning it a bit more tolerable. wouldn't object to giving the chamber another go, but I remember it really well and nothing but Henry was the highlight.

Nah, Kane vs Mysterio is awesome. Really big on it. Sheamus vs Orton is solid, but they would have much better down the line. Plus the finish is sadly ass. And Show vs SES rules. That's an underrated gem. Only "crap" matches were the first two. At least the opener ended hot for the main event. The company knew where the priorities lie.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh you just wait CODY, I've got the blu ray on the way, then I'll watch the whole show again and talk about how GREAT it was!
> 
> On a random note, is Summerslam 2010 truly a one match show? Kane/Mysterio & Orton/Sheamus not as good as their other affairs? I know about the DQ finish.


Thank you sir, Big Show vs Sheamus HiaC it is.

Yes, Summerslam 2010 is the definition of a 1 match show, believe me I'd love to pimp Rey-Kane and Orton-Sheamus but they just never get off the ground. Very plodding, atleast for me. Rey vs Kane was the only semi enjoyable match other than the ME. Daniel Bryan was such a stud in that tag though, I didn't know shit about Indy wrestling at that time so that was really my first introduction to him. And what an introduction it was. He was easily the star of the entire thing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skip Sheffield aka Ryback was the star of the elimination match. Danielson hardly got to do anything in the match. When he was in it was awesome, but he was held off a bit too much. The only real drawback I had. I can even handle the finish b/c iirc they screwed the pooch by going too long.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hmmmm, think I'll just download it then instead of buying the blu ray. 2010 really wasn't one of my favorite years at all so who knows if I'll even like the main event as much as others. 

I'll be legitimately amazed if they include both the Chamber and the Shield 6-man on the Best PPV Matches set, so I just went ahead and bought the whole event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Skip Sheffield aka Ryback was the star of the elimination match. Danielson hardly got to do anything in the match. When he was in it was awesome, but he was held off a bit too much. The only real drawback I had. I can even handle the finish b/c iirc they screwed the pooch by going too long.




Are you sure we watched the same match? Bryan got the first elimination which was sweet and them yes he tags out for a while but he totally steals the show towards the end eliminating Slater, he finally gets hit by someone (can't remember who) and then either Gabriel or Barrett takes him out. For the 5 minutes or so is going he completely captivated me. Remember, I had no clue who the fuck this guy was and he was the main thing I remembered after the match. Maybe it's different if you knew who he was before hand and expected more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hmmmm, think I'll just download it then instead of buying the blu ray. 2010 really wasn't one of my favorite years at all so who knows if I'll even like the main event as much as others.
> 
> I'll be legitimately amazed if they include both the Chamber and the Shield 6-man on the Best PPV Matches set, so I just went ahead and bought the whole event.


2010 was a year of wonder for me. Not sure why, but every week with each show I had such excitement. Loved it.



Cactus Jack said:


> Are you sure we watched the same match? Bryan got the first elimination which was sweet and them yes he tags out for a while but he totally steals the show towards the end eliminating Slater, he finally gets hit by someone (can't remember who) and then either Gabriel or Barrett takes him out. For the 5 minutes or so is going he completely captivated me. Remember, I had no clue who the fuck this guy was and he was the main thing I remembered after the match. Maybe it's different if you knew who he was before hand and expected more.


He was only in the match for about three to four minutes iirc. He got rid of Darren Young, tagged out, didn't come in for twenty minutes give or take, eliminated Slater, did Cattle Mutilation in the match at some point, Miz plonked him and he was gone. It was fun, but nothing to where how Ryback actually looked a ton more impressive. Watching the match I knew I could actually like Ryback's work in the ring. Which I do. He always left the biggest impression on me when the bout was over. 

I mean yeah, I could have expected more, but this isn't the indies so I wasn't going to expect Danielson to do everything and make the match. I just thought he wasn't in for enough time. And that's purely the fandom speaking. Felt like the booking behind him that night was to give the fans a taste of his talents only for it to explode once he got on PPV the next few months in 2010. Which he did in all of those great matches vs Miz, Miz/Morrison, Ziggler, & Dibiase Jr. Not to mention the Ziggler matches on TV too. b/c at the time he really didn't get to work too many lengthy bouts on TV. They hid him while making his longer matches feel like a novelty or a real treat to see.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> 2010 was a year of wonder for me. Not sure why, but every week with each show I had such excitement. Loved it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Man his match with Miz for the US championship is easily the best thing Miz has ever done in the ring, his FCA against JoMo is the only thing that comes close.

But yea, I guess that's probably what it is, me not knowing who the hell he was, and him looking the way he does, I just remember him stealing my attention every second he was in there. That was really my intro into the Daniel Bryan experience, so I will always remember it fondly. I didn't find out he was a huge deal in the indies and was trained by HBK until much later. I wasn't a member of a forum or anything so I thought he was like my little secret in wrestling:$


Speaking of, how is JoMo doing on the indies? I'd really like to see either him, Shelton, or Jeff come back. I always enjoyed Morrison, I know a lot of people hate on him for being a spot monkey but I really liked his style. His kicks were nice and stiff and he was a breath taking athlete. Guy had unbelievable balance and coordination. His Ladder match with Sheamus is truthfully a top 5 singles ladder match for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Nah, Kane vs Mysterio is awesome. Really big on it. Sheamus vs Orton is solid, but they would have much better down the line. Plus the finish is sadly ass. And Show vs SES rules. That's an underrated gem. Only "crap" matches were the first two. At least the opener ended hot for the main event. The company knew where the priorities lie.


So glad I'm not the only one who loves Kane/Rey.

But imo Show/SES is not underrated. It's lifeless trash to say the least. I wanna think you're just jizzing to the level of badassness in it (Show, Punk and Gallows) 

I'm not even sure which was worse: Royal Rumble 2012 or 2013.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're FUCKING right that Show/SES rules.

GOD DAMN FUCKING RIGHT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'm the only person in the universe who has Brock/HHH > Bryan/Cena though.
> 
> I've only seen Cena/Bryan once though so that might need a revision. I don't see how it's a debate between Punk/Brock & Cena/Bryan for MOTN though, that shit will always perplex me.


Brock/HHH from SS? If so, I'm on board with it being better than Bryan/Cena. I don't think Bryan/Cena was anything truly special or anything, but I adore Brock/HHH. Also agree on the Punk/Lesnar & Cena/Bryan thing too. One of them is quite clearly the MOTN for me, way ahead of the other.

If it's any other Brock/HHH match then YOU CRAZY BITCH.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I actually think all three of them are better.

Bryan/Cena is REALLY HIGH **** 3/4* territory or REALLY LOW ****** territory.

Brock/HHH from Mania is in that vain too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 for Cena/Bryan. ****1/4 for Lesnar/HHH SS.

Utter shit for their ER match. **3/4 for WM.

****1/4 for Lesnar/Punk. Better than Lesnar/HHH SS? I dunno. Probably.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Brock/HHH from SS? If so, I'm on board with it being better than Bryan/Cena. I don't think Bryan/Cena was anything truly special or anything, but I adore Brock/HHH. Also agree on the Punk/Lesnar & Cena/Bryan thing too. One of them is quite clearly the MOTN for me, way ahead of the other.
> 
> If it's any other Brock/HHH match then YOU CRAZY BITCH.



I believe, and I could be wrong, but I believe he was talking about Brock/Trips Mania29. I think their Mania29 match is the best one they had, Summerslam is good and the Cage match was borderline garbage, some of the worst cage match psychology/story telling I've ever seen. There were just way too many instances of Trips or Brock being right next to an open cage door with the other guy completely incapacitated and no one was trying to win. It's like they used Cell match psychology in a Cage match, and it didn't work for me at all. Heyman at one point opens the door, hands something to Brock, then closes the door for him again.....seriously? And then one time Brock with and injured leg is trying to climb out and Trips is standing RIGHT NEXT TO THE OPEN DOOR and instead of just taking a step out and winning, he chases Brock across the ring and catches Brock before he even gets to the top. Maddening to watch. Cage matches should be all about a brutal struggle and trying to escape. Cell matches should be about beating your opponent until he's lifeless and has to tap or submit. Cage matches should also be used to trap the heel and keep interference from happening, same as a Cell match....what good does that do if Heyman is tossing Charles Robinson around like a rag doll and opening and closing the door whenever he wants? So dumb.


So yea, Mania>SS>>>>>>ER for the Brock vs Trips feud. None of the matches were truly great IMHO, but I know a lot of people love them, so it is what it is.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I believe, and I could be wrong, but I believe he was talking about Brock/Trips Mania29. I think their Mania29 match is the best one they had, Summerslam is good and the Cage match was borderline garbage, some of the worst cage match psychology/story telling I've ever seen. There were just way too many instances of Trips or Brock being right next to an open cage door with the other guy completely incapacitated and no one was trying to win. It's like they used Cell match psychology in a Cage match, and it didn't work for me at all. Heyman at one point opens the door, hands something to Brock, then closes the door for him again.....seriously? And then one time Brock with and injured leg is trying to climb out and Trips is standing RIGHT NEXT TO THE OPEN DOOR and instead of just taking a step out and winning, he chases Brock across the ring and catches Brock before he even gets to the top. Maddening to watch. Cage matches should be all about a brutal struggle and trying to escape. Cell matches should be about beating your opponent until he's lifeless and has to tap or submit. Cage matches should also be used to trap the heel and keep interference from happening, same as a Cell match....what good does that do if Heyman is tossing Charles Robinson around like a rag doll and opening and closing the door whenever he wants? So dumb.
> 
> 
> So yea, Mania>SS>>>>>>ER for the Brock vs Trips feud. None of the matches were truly great IMHO, but I know a lot of people love the, so it is what it is.


Trips/Brock Cage was exactly about torturing each other tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Trips/Brock Cage was exactly about torturing each other tbh.


Instead they just tortured anyone who watched the damn thing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Trips/Brock Cage was exactly about torturing each other tbh.


Then it should have been either :

A.) done better, so that I wasn't left screaming at my tv for either guy to just step out the door and fucking win. These guys are pros, they should have set the match up in a way that makes fucking sense instead of in a way that frustrates the viewer into thinking neither guy gives the slightest fuck about winning. Wanna have a match seem presaged and choreographed? Me neither. That's what happens when guys look like they don't care about winning. Because in real life Trips would have stepped out, won, then gone back in and beat the fuck out of Brock with his victory secured.

B.) just make it a freaking hell in a cell match. WWE really screwed the pooch on this one, now we can't have a freaking cell match unless its at the specific event named for it. So when it does happen, it seems like a completely unnatural thing for whatever feud takes place in it, ugh. Fuck me WWE, fuck me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Instead they just tortured anyone who watched the damn thing.


Not me, _(in Nelson's voice)_ HA HA :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Instead they just tortured anyone who watched the damn thing.


Really? It's like the only match in their series that I really enjoyed.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive gone off stars ( AGAIN) recently for a bit, but those matches I remember were under :

cena/bryan ****1/2
punk/lesnar ****1/4+



HHH/lesnar I DUD
HHH/lesnar II ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

***** 1/2* for HHH/Brock I, Top 50 WWF/WWE match ever IMO.

***** 3/4* & Top 25 WWF/WWE match ever for Punk/Brock.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cage match was fucking awesome imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Am I alone here in that it frustrated me to no end that neither guy was trying to win??? That doesn't bother you guys? Not saying you're wrong for having an opinion I'm just curious as to what you liked about it so much.

On the other end, I don't know what planet you are from if you think Cena-Bryan was better than Punk-Lesnar. They were both good and I thought I liked them both evenly when I saw it live, but with every rewatch Punk-Lesnar keeps getting better and better and Cena-Bryan stays the same/gets slightly worse. I have them at

Punk-Lesnar: ****1/2
Cena-Bryan: ****

Trips/Brock SS: ***1/2
Trips/Brock WM: ***3/4
Trips/Brock ER: **1/4

I consider anything 4stars and up to be classified as "great". I'd love to see Cena-Bryan get another shot together with Cena being 100% healthy. I feel like they can definitely top what they did. Lesnar-Punk I don't feel can do too much better unless they go ape in a Cell match. Unless they go that route I don't really want a rematch, I'd like to see Brock take on some new opponents.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

They showed throughout their entire feud that wins/losses didn't matter. Why should it when they're surrounded by a cage in a blowoff match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Am I alone here in that it frustrated me to no end that neither guy was trying to win??? That doesn't bother you guys? Not saying you're wrong for having an opinion I'm just curious as to what you liked about it so much.
> 
> *On the other end, I don't know what planet you are from if you think Cena-Bryan was better than Punk-Lesnar.* They were both good and I thought I liked them both evenly when I saw it live, but with every rewatch Punk-Lesnar keeps getting better and better and Cena-Bryan stays the same/gets slightly worse. I have them at
> 
> ...


Ive been living on Planet Funk for the past couple of years

I'll rewatch punk/lesnar this weekend or something, the ending, and I think a small portion while Lesnar is in control keeps me from ***** tbh


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> They showed throughout their entire feud that wins/losses didn't matter. Why should it when they're surrounded by a cage in a blowoff match?


Because its a blowoff match, winner would win the series. And winning doesn't mean you can't kill you're opponent. Step out, win the match and the series, go back in and destroy the guy with a sledge. I don't know what to tell you, seeing Heyman open the door himself, hand a chair to Brock, then close the door back again just killed the entire match right then and there for me. No matter how hard they tried I couldn't get that out of my head, how stupid that was.


Edit- Skins :lmao that was good


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Why? Heyman wanted to see Brock destroy him. He felt Brock had the upper hand and there was no reason for Brock to step outside to win the match when he could easily just brutalize HHH and pin him cleanly in the middle of the ring. It isn't in either guys' nature to win a cage match by escaping. I reserve that for cowardly heels. How often are cage matches won by escaping these days? Made perfect sense imo. It wasn't about escaping, it was about incapacitating the other guy, which Brock did. Clean pin > escaping the cage.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Why? Heyman wanted to see Brock destroy him. He felt Brock had the upper hand and there was no reason for Brock to step outside to win the match when he could easily just brutalize HHH and pin him cleanly in the middle of the ring. It isn't in either guys' nature to win a cage match by escaping. I reserve that for cowardly heels. How often are cage matches won by escaping these days? Made perfect sense imo. It wasn't about escaping, it was about incapacitating the other guy, which Brock did. Clean pin > escaping the cage.


Thank you for explaining your logic, it still doesn't work at all for me, but atleast I can understand why it didn't bother others as much as it irked me.

My view is Brock should have just stepped out of the cage at that point, won, then went back in and caved Hunters skull in with the chair or sledge. If it wasn't about the escape though, then why did Brock try to climb out? You can't say it's because he got hurt and decided to just win at all costs, because he hurt is leg right at the start and it was already injured when Heyman got him the chair. Brock sold his leg amazingly well though, he definitely deserves props for that.

If that had been a Hell In a Cell match, I'm sure I would have really really liked it. Or if they had just chained the door shut and made pin/submission/over the top the only way out. Or if Heyman had just thrown the chair over the top. Anything other than what they did.

Edit- I finally saw the Rude/Steamboat Ironman match Cal was talking about the other day. I don't think I've ever seen someone sell an injury better than Rude sells his ribs there. Phenomenal match, tied with Kurt/Brock as my favorite IM match ever.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just watched The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin DVD, and I must say this wwas just fantastic:

The Hollywood Blonds vs Dos Hombres Sllamboree 1993 ***1/2- this was a great cage match, liked the fact that they really used the stipulation here. Dos Hombres were a really unique tag team in that period.

Steve Austin vs Brian Pillman- Clash of the Champions 25- ***- this match starts great with a nice spot, but the energy dies as it continues. Fun match but it had many flaws

Steve Austin vs Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions 28- ****- the psychology here is just phenomenal.They both work excellent their heel/babyface role here, add with that a great pace and some pretty cool moves and you have a great match for the US Title.

Steve Austin vs Sandman vs Whipreck ECW- **1/2, a pretty good ECW-esque brawl, nothing special

Steve Austin vs Savio Vega- ****1/4 IYH:Beware of the Dog- those 2 always had fantastic matches together and this was not different. The best strap in history, that's for sure, this was just brutal they really used the gimmick here. The innovation here was high too.

Steve Austin vs Bret Hart- Survivour Series 1996- ****3/4, a fantastic preview for their WM13 match. I mean, it was a 20+ minutes Austin/Hart match, you can't expect anything less than awesome. The storytelling was great, the pace was great, the in-ring work was awesome and the MSG was fatnastic. An almost perfect match from those 2, the perfect one came 4 monnths later 

Steve Austin vs Undertaker: IYH:A Cold Day in Hell ***1/4- probably their best match together, but still nothing great here, only good. I don't think that these 2 ever had a great match together

Steve Austin&HBK vs Owen hart&Brittish Bulldog RAW 1997- ****1/2 one of the best RAW's matches ever, and probably the best tag ream one. It was great to see Austin and Shawn in the ring together

Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels- King of the Ring 1997 ****- better than their WM match, because of HBK's health probably. Their in-ring chemistry was obvious and the wrestling was just fantastic here, but it really had no story which hurt the match for me

Steve Austin vs Owen Hart Summerslam 1997- ***1/4, the match was nothing special tbh, but the wrestling mat style of Austin ended here with that terryfing injury. He became the known brawler after this that still delivered great matches.

Steve Austin vs Dude Love Unforgiven 1998 ***3.4- a classic brawl between two awesome brawlers, very good match. A good preview for their awesome Over the Edge match.

Steve Austin vs Kane King of the Ring 1998 ****1/4, this is a personal favourite of mine, always loved this match because of its intensity. The wrestling wasn't great here but it was really a fun match, with the interferences from Taker and Mankind

Steve Austin vs Kane RAW 1998- ***, good match, nothing else here

Steve Austin vs The Rock Backlash 1999- ****1/2 they had a nice match at WM15 but this was just fantastic, better than their WM19 match for me. The story here was awesome and both of them clearly knew what they were doing. This was a very entartaining matchh.

Steve Austin vs Triple H Survivour Series 2000 ***, not a big fan of this match, it felt like an uninspired brawl, tbh.

Steve Austin vs Triple H 3SOH ****3/4, heard a lot of people complaining about this match, but this is what fantastic means, one of the best matches in the company's history.I almost gave it a full 5, and maybe after another rewatch I'll do it.

Steve Austin vs The Rock *****, this is the fifth of my 5 star WWE matches and the last probably for a time. The perfect end for the Attitude Era, ended by the guy who started it. The match was phenomenal one of the best I have ever seen. The ending is one of the biggest moments in the company history and this match is one of the biggest in the comapny history. Perfect ending match for this DVD


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You'd be hating on every cage match if you nitpick about this time or that time they went against logic. Wrestling and logic don't mix, I learned that lesson a long time ago!


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Dave Metzler ratings for 2013 Night of Champions:



> # 1 Tag Team Turmoil Contender Match - ****
> Axel vs Kingston - ***1/2*
> AJ Lee vs Brie vs Naomi vs Natalya - **1/4*
> RVD vs ADR - ***1/4*
> ...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> You'd be hating on every cage match if you nitpick about this time or that time they went against logic. Wrestling and logic don't mix, I learned that lesson a long time ago!


Ill admit, great Cage match psychology seems like a lost art for a lot of guys. A lot of the ones I really love occurred before 2000 or so. Go watch the I Quit match between Tully and Magnum or the Cage match Bret had with Owen at Summerslam. Those blow anything happening today out of the water.

Doesn't mean there still aren't a lot of GOOD cage matches, or ones that I enjoy a good deal. It's just the Hunter/Brock one took the not trying to win thing to ridiculous levels. I like my wrestling to allow me to suspend disbelief. The matches that allow me to do that the most are the ones I love the most.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd sooner blow my brains out that watch Bret/Owen in a cage .

Meltzer is about ** too high on everything .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

How do you folks burn PPVs to dvd? Every time I convert it to an .iso file it never burns correctly. Is there a specific program you guys use?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it depends on what video format I'm starting with. Just a basic download like avi (or MP4/MKV for HD)? Simplest way is to use ConvertXtoDvd, and if you have say Nero already installed or some other burning software, ConvertXtoDvd can do it all for you without any pissing about.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I'd sooner blow my brains out that watch Bret/Owen in a cage .
> 
> Meltzer is about ** too high on everything .


Making a statement like that makes me think you have no brains to blow out!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I've sat through the match a couple of times so odds are my brains got blown out a long time ago!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Steve Austin vs Triple H 3SOH ****3/4, heard a lot of people complaining about this match, but this is what fantastic means, one of the best matches in the company's history.I almost gave it a full 5, and maybe after another rewatch I'll do it.


Glad someone else rates it so highly, massive guilty pleasure of mine. Love it 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> How do you folks burn PPVs to dvd? Every time I convert it to an .iso file it never burns correctly. Is there a specific program you guys use?


If you need to burn .ISO files, imgburn is all you need - http://www.imgburn.com/

Or if you need to burn avi/mp4 or any other file, like Cal said, convertxtodvd is all ya need.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wrestlemania IV is terrible,the ending was fun though. I'm gonna watch V tommorow because I feel like playing some Madden!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Glad someone else rates it so highly, massive guilty pleasure of mine. Love it



Love that match, I don't understand the hate it gets. The pace those guys have through the first 2 falls is unbelievable. So intense, it's up there as one of my favorite 40+ minute matches ever. You could feel real hate between the two guys.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Had two test today and went 0-2 on both so in a great mood

I would take hardy/punk cage over alot of those matches tbh


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Man his match with Miz for the US championship is easily the best thing Miz has ever done in the ring, his FCA against JoMo is the only thing that comes close.
> 
> But yea, I guess that's probably what it is, me not knowing who the hell he was, and him looking the way he does, I just remember him stealing my attention every second he was in there. That was really my intro into the Daniel Bryan experience, so I will always remember it fondly. I didn't find out he was a huge deal in the indies and was trained by HBK until much later. I wasn't a member of a forum or anything so I thought he was like my little secret in wrestling:$
> 
> ...


That's what it comes down to then. Although this isn't to say I wasn't enthralled when Danielson was in the ring. Crowd went nuts for him too. The best part.

Morrison is doing well on the indies from I've seen. He got to wrestle Jushin Liger & Kevin Steen so him leaving wasn't all bad thanks to that. Never did get to see his match vs Akira Tozawa yet. I need to. Shelton is still over in New Japan. Got a title shot upcoming on the 29th & I wished Jeff would return to WWE. Miss him over there. Morrison isn't a spot monkey. Hate that term and hate it branded on him by someone who doesn't understand anything. Morrison vs Sheamus series was so great. Ladder match. Wow. That one is something else.



ATF said:


> So glad I'm not the only one who loves Kane/Rey.
> 
> But imo Show/SES is not underrated. It's lifeless trash to say the least. I wanna think you're just jizzing to the level of badassness in it (Show, Punk and Gallows)
> 
> I'm not even sure which was worse: Royal Rumble 2012 or 2013.


Yeah it's good stuff. iirc Cal digs it too.

Nah. Don't see how that's feasible. It's all the goodies you expected packed into a sub-seven minute format. Then the little Punk vs Show match come NOC would rock too.

------------

Ok, lets run down the list:

Cena vs Danielson >>> Brock vs Triple H from SummerSlam

Punk vs Brock will always be flawless, perfect, "five stars" for me.

Brock vs Triple H in the cage is GREAT. Best match they produced. WM is really good/great too & SummerSlam has its moments. Actually don't hate any of them. BROCK.

Austin vs Trips Three Stages of Hell is standard Attitude Era bleh. They never meshed up well as opponents.

Punk vs Hardy in the cage is one of the best matches I've seen in WWE history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> ------------
> 
> Ok, lets run down the list:
> 
> ...


So if my calaucations are correct, you have cena/bryan at ***** :cool2

Yea punk/hardy is a top 3 cage along with edge/hardy and hhh/flair come at me, although I love naitch/orton cage as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pretty much. Match was atmospheric bliss. Goal accomplished there was to have a well wrestled explosion among the fans. That's what we got.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk vs. Lesnar - Still at ***** for me, I've watched it about ten times now and it's still as good as it was the first time. Just perfect.

Cena vs. Bryan - ****1/4

Punk vs. Hardy (Cage Match) - ****3/4 And easily the best match they had together. The fact that they pull that one out only two days after their great TLC match makes it even better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Bryan is great but I thought it could've been better tbh. Punk/Lesnar on the other hand was exactly what I wanted to see from them, except for the Heyman fest at the end but I didn't mind that too much on a re-watch. I suppose it made sense for Punk to turn his focus on Heyman, just thought they overdid it a bit. I'm giving them a pass for that though because otherwise the match was basically perfect. Right now it's my MOTY. Ziggler/Del Rio and Cesaro/Zayn round out the top three and frankly they're interchangeable as far as #1 goes. Three completely different types of matches, all amazing in their own way.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Well it depends on what video format I'm starting with. Just a basic download like avi (or MP4/MKV for HD)? Simplest way is to use ConvertXtoDvd, and if you have say Nero already installed or some other burning software, ConvertXtoDvd can do it all for you without any pissing about.





zep81 said:


> If you need to burn .ISO files, imgburn is all you need - http://www.imgburn.com/
> 
> Or if you need to burn avi/mp4 or any other file, like Cal said, convertxtodvd is all ya need.


Well, I've tried both programs now and it always seems to fail right in the middle of trying to burn the disc. Idk if it's the DVDs I'm using or maybe my burner, but it's annoying the hell outta me. I burn IVPs downloads all the time...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

To change the format of a file, I use WinAvi Video Converter.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The thing about cena/bryan that so good, is that is the perfect "main event" at this point, the closes thing to mitb 11 with punk in so long, and ive watched it 4x times and its stays the same


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't be bothered to keep my full 2013 list going anymore so decided to trim it down to a top 20. I think I've seen all the essential matches, except for that Swagger/Sheamus one Cody and skins pimped.

1. Brock Lesnar v CM Punk - Summerslam (8/18/13)
2. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
3. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (8/21/13)
4. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
5. John Cena v Daniel Bryan - Summerslam (8/18/13)
6. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
7. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
8. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
9. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
10. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
11. Antonio Cesaro v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (7/10/13)
12. Jack Swagger v Sami Zayn - NXT (9/5/13)
13. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (6/12/13)
14. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
15. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
16. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton v The Shield - Smackdown (6/14/13)
17. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
18. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)
19. Antonio Cesaro v Daniel Bryan - Raw (7/22/13)
20. Alberto Del Rio v Christian - Summerslam (8/18/13)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Don't think my top 10 has changed since the last time I posted it (I think right after Summerslam), but here's my top 20:

1) Punk/Brock SS
2) Taker/Punk WM29
3) Bryan/Cena SS
4) Shield/Bryan-Kane-Kofi 5/20
5) Sandow/Barrett/Cody/Ambrose/Cesaro/Swagger/Fandango MITB
6) Bryan/Cesaro Raw 7/22
7) Ziggler/Del Rio PB
8) Punk/Cena Raw 2/25
9) Shield/Taker-Bryan-Kane 4/22
10) Ziggler/Cesaro Main Event 7/10
11) Shield/Bryan-Kane 5/27
12) Shield/Jericho-Ryback-Sheamus 2/18
13) Bryan/Rollins 6/10
14) Barrett/Sheamus Main Event 5/29
15) Christian/Del Rio SD 8/9
16) Punk/Jericho PB
17) Barrett/Bryan SD 8/23
18) Henry/Swagger/Orton/Jericho/Bryan/Kane EC
19) Punk/Jericho Raw 2/4
20) Kaitlyn/AJ PB

Haven't seen any Sami Zayn matches as of yet. Top 10 are all ****+.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb @ Cesaro vs Zayn making top three billing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*@The Sandrone*: props for giving Kaitlyn/AJ some love. Best divas match in ages.

I just watched Cesaro/Bryan to see where I'd place it on my list and it's entirely possible that I wasn't in the mood to watch wrestling but I didn't love it. I remember liking it much more when I saw it live. Am I the only one who felt that it was unrealistic for Bryan to kick out after that wicked barrage of strikes from Cesaro? I'll probably give it another chance before the year's out. Still thought it was a great match but didn't hold it in the same regard I did back when it happened, ie. the regard everybody else seems to hold it in.



HayleySabin said:


> :hb @ Cesaro vs Zayn making top three billing.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

cesaro/bryan may be my favorite raw match this year


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Earlier I picked up WM 25,WM 19, and SS 2007 for only $15 at this random movie shop. I know SS 07 sucks but those were the only DVD's they had. Watching WM 19 now, but I'll be going to sleep soon, cause I'm beat.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I wasn't blown away by Bryan vs. Cesaro live, but I know it was because I was watching RAW with friends and there was a lot of talking going on during the match. Watched it again afterwards and LOVED it. It's my second favorite RAW match this year behind Punk vs. Cena.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was kind of like that on the indies too iirc where Claudio would throw his lethal uppercuts but still wasn't enough to always defeat Danielson. Then again, the point of their feud in 2008 was how Claudio could get close, but never defeat Danielson. I felt it was believable in WWE b/c while the uppercuts & lariat are credible finishers, they don't ever defeat anyone while he's there. So if that offense couldn't take down guys ranging from Dolph to Sheamus to Kingston to Orton etc it wasn't going to defeat the hottest guy in the company. No matter how brilliant it looked.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> It was kind of like that on the indies too iirc where Claudio would throw his lethal uppercuts but still wasn't enough to always defeat Danielson. Then again, the point of their feud in 2008 was how Claudio could get close, but never defeat Danielson. I felt it was believable in WWE b/c while the uppercuts & lariat are credible finishers, they don't ever defeat anyone while he's there. So if that offense couldn't take down guys ranging from Dolph to Sheamus to Kingston to Orton etc it wasn't going to defeat the hottest guy in the company. No matter how brilliant it looked.


He never hit that many uppercuts in a row against anybody else. Bryan was out on his feet. It was like oh shit he's dead.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody did you check out dolph/axel ? I havent had time to today and probably not tonite either


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Emphasis perhaps. Danielson wouldn't be denied. It all led to Dragon pinning Cena flat out clean at SummerSlam. So the pay off for having Cesaro's offense nearly negated was about the best thing they could have done in the situation. It's only b/c of pecking order to where I found this acceptable. Cesaro may be right up there with Danielson in quality, but ranking wise, Danielson finding his way to survive the barrage and cradle up Cesaro was more than logical in the world of WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Cody did you check out dolph/axel ? I havent had time to today and probably not tonite either


Fun match. Not as good as the match vs Rhodes, but better than all vs Punker & Jericho.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I was trying to predict the matches on Best of Raw/SD 2013 and Best PPV Matches of 2013 today and all I could come up with is I can't wait for these fucking sets and we still have a little over 3 months left!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

It's been a killer year. PPV hasn't delivered as many great matches as in previous years (althought Summerslam went some way towards rectifying that) but Raw, Main Event and NXT have more than made up for that. Raw has been off the charts good as far as match quality goes. Best year for the red brand since '04 probably.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're all going to be mad when a match like Axel vs Kingston from Smackdown makes the best of set over Hell No vs Shield for the tag team championship.

8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I bet they'll put the Orton/Bryan street fight on there.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> I bet they'll put the Orton/Bryan street fight on there.


Rightfully so.

There definitely needs to be more than just one or two Shield tags, though. They were pretty much ruling the first half of this year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best of RAW/SD 2013 NEEDS to be 4 discs. Absolute necessity. If 2011 was 4, this year needs to be 4. 

--------------------------------

Rewatched all of *Money in the Bank 2013*. Damn it, what a rock solid show. If it wasn't for Summerslam having 3 GREAT matches, this would be my PPV of the year for sure. Thoughts:

The World Title MITB Ladder match still remains fun as shit and an incredibly well booked ladder match where you have nothing but heels and you turn Cody in one match. What a fucking performance from that guy. Also like I said a day or two ago they did a great job in editing Ambrose's ladder pullup botch. *** 3/4

Miz vs. Axel was better than I remembered. Fun stuff from Miz all around and lol at throwing Heyman out in Philly. Smart move to get your face cheered... Anyway, loved what they did with the figure 4 at the end but that ending felt so flat. Pretty decent match otherwise. ** 1/2

AJ vs. Kaitlyn gave us another very good Divas match. Psychology and selling was there with Kaitlyn's injured arm and AJ's loaded with wrestling skill, flexibility, and bomb ass overselling. The GOAT Diva of the last few years for sure. ** 1/2

Don't care for Jericho vs. Ryback. This should've been on the preshow while Shield/Usos should have been in its place.

Del Rio vs. Ziggler remained the same. Very, very good back and forth match with its only flaw being a slow middle portion with Del Rio on offense and his slow climbing to the top rope. The sequences these two put together just look effortless. Fuckin love their chemistry. The finish was hilarious in a good sense because Ziggler followed through with his Zig Zag attempt while Del Rio was on his back. :lol *** 1/2

Cena vs. Henry is the bomb. Henry shines in these slow paced, main event style matches and it really showed here. Wonderful control segments and flashes of complete domination. I loved the part where the crowd is chanting 'sexual chocolate' and Henry smacks himself and shakes his head to get the thoughts and the doubters out of his mind. The nearfalls after the World's Strongest Slam & the low blow spots were both fuckin great. Still my only complaint in this is that Henry tapped too fast, but I'll be damned if he didn't sell the hell out of that leg all the way to the back. Excellent match but I can't make up my mind on the rating. *** 1/2 - *** 3/4

Well, the MITB All Stars match got the HHH/Lesnar Wrestlemania treatment, What does that mean exactly? It means I didn't like it much at all on first glance then on a rewatch it went way up.  There's just too much good stuff that outweighs most of the slower portions where nothing's happening. First we have RVD owning everyone to the crowd's liking, then we have Sheamus owning everyone to the crowd's "meh" attitude (seriously that punch to Christian was BRUTAL), then we finish with Bryan owning everyone while the crowd goes nuts. Middle of the match highlights see Orton's t-bone to Punk on the ladder, RVD's HUGE 5 star off the ladder, and the dueling YES/NO chants between Sheamus & Bryan (which was a lot of fun). Whoever signed off on Sheamus to take so many dangerous bumps needs to be fired cause god damn, he could've died about 3 times. The fall arm-first through the ladder is still really hard to watch. Looked like it was broken. Cool ass part to look out for is when Sheamus gets revenge on RVD for pushing him off the ladder earlier and he gives him a short shot to the head with the middle of the ladder and brogue kicks him to the face. Cuts Rob open. That was awesome. Sheamus is awesome.  I honestly thought the Heyman stuff was really predictable on my first watch but here it just felt soooo well executed. The way Heyman throws the ladder and the look on his face while casually walking out were brilliant and it was even better that the last shot to the head ripped Punk's head open. I still think the match is a little slow at times and Orton still does jack shit compared to everyone else (except maybe Christian) but at least the way he won looked badass and it kinda plays into his viper character to sneak in like that. Still think his "celebration" after winning is laughable. Pretty good match though, tbhayley. *** 1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I bet they'll put the Orton/Bryan street fight on there.




Nice review, Corey. However I didn't think AJ vs Kaitlyn II was that good. Serviceable, but nothing special. Which for Diva standards is still high. Can't harp on the main event as I need a rewatch. Loved Del Rio vs Ziggler & Cena vs Henry was def MOTN for me. MITB opener is legit - a lot of sweet spots in that one. Jericho vs Ryback...yikes. The only stinker on the night. For sure.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

why cant they just put orton/bryan smackdown, why doesnt that ever get its due ?

Yea MITB is rock soild, a shame it will always be overlooked by most because of ss


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I bet when it's all said and done I'll have MITB over Summerslam on the CAL Scale... but we'll see.

@ Cody - Really serviceable is all I ask for when it comes to Divas matches (which is unfortunate), but AJ and Kaitlyn take it a step further since they have a legit storyline and apply psychology and selling to their matches. I was happy with it.

@ redskins - Calm down bro, the match listing isn't even out yet.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> @ redskins - Calm down bro, the match listing isn't even out yet.


DONT TELL ME TO CALM DOWN EVER:no: JK

tbh I really dont care because the overall product should be great, but you already know there is will be matches that make you scratch your head as to why there on there but its always like that, and that bryan/orton always gets all appreciation while the better match, never a word


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

AJ vs Kaitlyn actually managed to provide something to it. Won't deny that. When compared to the shlock of three overrated women's matches from both WWE _(NXT)_ & TNA on this year.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Do we not like the Bryan/Orton street fight this week?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

AJ/Kaitlyn from MITB was going along so well until AJ forgot which arm she targeted. I still liked it though. Once again, the only bad match that night was Ryback/Jericho. I love both MITB matches and both title matches. Money In The Bank is probably my favorite PPV now. 4/4 so far, including the GOAT show.

Bah, I still enjoyed Orton/Bryan Street Fight. I'll still put their SD match over it, but the Street Fight felt like Bryan's official transition to becoming a main event player. Then again, you're talking to one of only two guys here that still likes Punk/Jericho from Payback, so what good is my opinion?

The Cal Scale needs some serious readjustment. Where are my statisticians? With a forum so crazy over analyzing drawing power, we are bound to have someone of use.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I still don't understand this scale of Cals.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still enjoyed Orton/Bryan Street Fight. I'll still put their SD match over it, but the Street Fight felt like Bryan's official transition to becoming a main event player.


This.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Do we not like the Bryan/Orton street fight this week?


More like it's always sucked, chief. But go be cute with your phrasing all you like.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Money in the Bank was indeed a very solid show. I'd gladly watch the opener, Del Rio/Ziggler and Cena/Henry again. Never bothered to watch the main event because a lot of people said it sucked. Guess I should give it a chance. 

The Orton/Bryan street fight never did anything for me. Bryan making Orton tap was cool and all but as a bell to bell contest I didn't find it engaging. It wasn't horrible or anything, it was just kind of there, like their Night of Champions match. Not enough substance between the well executed big spots.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can definitely see how the NOC match felt like it was "just there", but I will forever enjoy that match because it was a delight to see my younger brother celebrate after watching his new favorite wrestler win the gold. It was his first PPV (unfortunately), but the main event more than made it up for him in the end.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hopefully they can put the pieces together and deliver something great at Battleground. I'm hearing rumors about them possibly having an iron man match...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Iron Man match :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan and Orton in an Iron Man match? As much as I like both of them...

:bryan NO!

I'd like for a stipulation to be added that would result in a dusty finish, like a Last Man Standing or something of that vein.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I know right? I can't see an hour long Orton match being good. Not in 2013. Then again if anyone on the roster can make me want to watch a match that long it's Bryan or Cesaro so you never know. Plus it's been a while since the last iron man. I wouldn't mind seeing one if only for that fact. A 30 minute version could work too.

EDIT: they could do a screwy finish in an iron man match. Last man standing sounds good though. Bryan's never been in one of those has he?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As long as Del Rio/Van Dam also gets a stipulation, since 1-on-1 they didn't do a Goddamn thing for me...


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Van Dam does nothing for me period. Aggressive heel Del Rio on the other hand has been one of my favorite guys to watch recently. I'm trying to think of a good stip for them but regardless of the gimmick RVD will most likely stink up the joint with his crappy offense and retarded spots.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The RVD vs. Del Rio feud is doing absolutely nothing for me. Nothing like a completely random pairing like RVD and Ricardo, as if RVD doesn't get decent to great pops every week.

Hopefully Battleground has a solid card, because NoC along with a pretty bad Sunday Night Football game really hurt my soul.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Would be epic if they did Shield v Cody/Goldust/Dusty :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd be all for it, but with the Usos getting a #1 Contender's shot for the tag titles (again :side, I could see them holding that off until HIAC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Would be epic if they did Shield v Cody/Goldust/Dusty :mark:


:mark:

Del Rio's feuds always suck. They become irrelevant once the man works. He's so awesome. Really was into the match he had vs RVD at NOC.


----------



## NO! (Dec 19, 2012)

If Bryan and Orton have an iron man match, I'd prefer 45 minutes instead of a full hour. After 30-35 minutes, they would be tied at 1-1. With time winding down, I'd have the regime screw Bryan over to give Orton the 2-1 victory as he becomes the champion. After the match, a few guys from the back come out to clean house with Bryan. Then Bryan vs. Orton inside Hell in a Cell with Bryan winning the title back. Survivor Series would be 5 on 5 (Ambrose, Reigns, Rollins, Orton, HHH vs. Bryan, Big Show, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, Christian) and the Bryan/Orton feud ends in a Tables, Ladders & Chairs match with Bryan going over.

YES?! NO?!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

World War 3 1997. :usangle

Still a good show. I'm thinking of doing a side-by-side comparison between WCW & WWF PPVs from '97 after watch them all recently. Think WWF only got the win with Rumble & SummerSlam b/c those were good shows and the WCW product those months were both equally the worst show of the year: Souled Out & Road Wild.

July is a :mark: month. Bash at the Beach AND Canadian Stampede? Holy crap guys. It's too much greatness.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Del Rio is an incredible worker, but he has a stale gimmick. He really had only good matches this year, even with Swagger


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Del Rio is an incredible worker, but he has a stale gimmick. He really had only good matches this year, even with Swagger


Not exactly


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Best Del Rio feuds have come this year. His feuds with Big Show and Swagger were the only ones I have liked. Especially the Swagger feud but that died down a little once Jack was arrested.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One blemish.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Three - two RVD matches sucked too (NOC was only ** imo).

Everything else = (Y). Del Rio is one of the best in-ring workers of the last decade, such a shame he's bland and devoid of charisma.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't mind Del Rio at all as a worker, the guy very very good. It's just his character and unbelievable push he got that turned me off of him. If he had to work and scrap his way to the top, it would have been a lot more tolerable. Instead he wins the Rumble and the title in pretty much his first year of action. I guess WWE we're desperate for a new star and liked what they saw in him. Funny thing is, he might actually be a real star now if they had just done a slow build from the beginning. I don't hate the guy, he can flat out go.

Since you were all posting your MotY lists a few pages back ill do the same 

1. Punk vs Lesnar at Summerslam
2. Punk vs Taker at Wrestlemania
3. Cesaro vs Zayn on NXT
4. Punk vs Cena on Raw
5. Bryan vs Cena at Summerslam
6. The Shield vs Hell No Kofi on Raw
7. Rollins vs Bryan on Raw
8. The Shield vs Hell No on Raw
9. Cesaro vs Bryan on Raw
10. Ziggler vs ADR at Payback


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah NOC match was good and blew away everything from that show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

1. Taker/Punk (I will forever love this match :mark
2. Punk/Lesnar
3. Cena/Punk
4. Cena/Bryan
5. Cesaro/Zayn III
6. Ziggler/ADR PB
7. Bryan/Cesaro
8. Regal/Ohno
9. Shield/Hell Boom
10. Shield/Hell No Raw

My list.



HayleySabin said:


> Nah NOC match was good and blew away everything from that show.


Not for me. Thought they didn't click at all. I kinda hated it. I for one stand up for Orton/Bryan. And boy did the Heyman portion of the Punk match blew it into Iraq. Hell, the entire match >> ADR/RVD for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Axel's boring sequence can fuck off. Heyman's facial expressions were great, but the fact he was clearly wearing padding underneath his track suit took me out of the assault given by Punk. So fake. Gone into absurd detail and I'm sick to fucking death about it, but Danielson vs Orton doesn't click like it should. Del Rio vs RVD was fun & flashy complete with all the goodies both can bring at this day and age. Low center superkick was honestly probably the sickest ever seen. And he's done some sick, sick kicks all year long.

----------

Faces of Fear are gods. They single handedly made this three way tag from SuperBrawl VII awesome. Holy hell they're impressive. Sort of the same thing happened in the ugly six man lucha match with the Parka vs Calo sequence. Match was a bit of a mess, but their work vs one another was five star level great. However there wasn't a bad point in the three way match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont with classes for this week, hopeful the weekend consists of gta V, wrestling, and alcohol 


Iron man match ? :argh: really scary words there, Orton involved :$, although there is only 4-5 guys on the roster than are capable for that time of match, and Bryan is one.

I dont even watch RVD matches, I literally change the change, and he really doesn't bore me as much as other either. Del Rio, extremely boring and uncharismatic and has the worst mic skills outside of Big E, but with the right person is a superior worker.

Not going to indulge in the MOTYC list yet, however I wrote like 20 matches down and there are alot most of you (except Saint D kinda) haven't mentioned or forgot about.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BENOIT vs SULLIVAN - DEATH MATCH.

yeah, this actually happened. I'm terrible.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Have never looked forward to an Iron man match, knowing that I'm in for a 60 min match makes me want to turn off the TV before it begins.

Night of Champions 2013

Tag team turmoil **
IC title **
Divas title *
RVD/ADR **1/2
Miz/Fandango *
Handicap match **1/2
US title *
Tag title **
WWE Title ***1/2

Orton/Bryan had their best match to date.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Axel's boring sequence can fuck off. Heyman's facial expressions were great, but the fact he was clearly wearing padding underneath his track suit took me out of the assault given by Punk. So fake. Gone into absurd detail and I'm sick to fucking death about it, but Danielson vs Orton doesn't click like it should. Del Rio vs RVD was fun & flashy complete with all the goodies both can bring at this day and age. Low center superkick was honestly probably the sickest ever seen. And he's done some sick, sick kicks all year long.


Axel sequence was good up until the low blow, then yes it got really boring. I didn't gave a crap about padding, Heyman's a non-wrestler and he, even though he already took some bumps, ain't no Vince/Shane McMahon in terms of non-wrestler in-ring toughness, so padding didn't bother me. Heyman was still awesome in it. Orton/Bryan I too felt it didn't click that much (nearly puked over Orton's *dull* initial control segment) but fuck me if Bryan's awesome performance wasn't worth the price of admission. Loved the triple Suicide Dive segment too. ADR/RVD's flashiness was way too uninspired and sloppy (I counted on two hands the amount of times RVD's offense looked sloppy). Del Rio wasn't his usual great either, though he was good. Though the superkick that pinned Ziggler was his sickest.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> BENOIT vs SULLIVAN - DEATH MATCH.
> 
> yeah, this actually happened. I'm terrible.


WHEN? WHERE? HOW? WHY DON'T I KNOW ABOUT THIS?!?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Rebellion 2000*

I like how they cut together a video package essentially using promos from the build up to Unforgiven :lmao. Worked out well I guess lol, plus it's all they had to work with because they didn't exactly hype this show on TV I don't think, since America didn't get it until like a year later on that month PPV service thingy.

Foley promo to start things. Just to tell us that HHH isn't on the show. Because he wasn't in the main event. Oh and the 4 way match for the WWF title is now No DQ and no countouts. Because we often see those 4 way matches end like that...

Angle shows up. Can't be wasting PPV time on matches after all! Angle making fun of Englishmen not winning gold medals. Bet he looks back at this and regrets saying it . Tazz and JR are doing commentary.


*T&A Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - Elimination Tables Match*

:mark: TRISH FAP FAP.

BIG VIS sign in the crowd. PETE GAS too. Man, Sheffield fans are awesome! Well, they are when I'm in the crowd. Wish they still did the UK PPV's. They stopped doing them the same year I started going to shows. Cunts.

ALBERT KICKS A TABLE IN HALF! Take THAT furniture!

Test had an awesome big boot. One of like, 3 things he was good at. But I liked T&A. Great team.

:lmao at Edge. Tags himself in after Test hits the big boot, kicks Bubba a few times on the floor, then when Bubba starts to get back up he runs and tags Test back in and runs out of the ring again.

Edge & Christian see an opportunity to take out T&A who have been DOMINATING this match so far, and end up powerbombing Albert through a table while he was trying to superplex Bubba. Why are T&A always the first team to get eliminated in matches like this? I WANT MORE T&A DAMMIT!!! At least let TRISH stay at ringside.

DEVON KICKS A TABLE... but it doesn't break. He's no Albert.

With T&A gone we get a standard E&C Vs Dudley Boys tag, but a standard match between those guys is like a fucking classic match compared to what we see today from anyone but THE SHIELD. Fun little finishing stretch, then Christian saves Edge from a 3-D by running into him, then stands up and takes the 3-D through a table himself. Good match overall.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


LITA LITA LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH interview.


*Ivory Vs Lita - WWF Women's Championship Match*

Lita got busted open at Survivor Series  but she gets another shot at the title tonight .

Tazz wants to see Ivory nude. Can't say I'd complain if I saw it too .

Why is Steven Richards always at ringside with Ivory but the Hardy Boys never come out to support Lita? If I was associated with LITA she'd have to get a restraining order out to keep me away! And trust me, she WOULD get the restraining order .

Match is like, a MILLION times less sloppy than their SS match. LITA SUICIDE DIVE TO WHITE SOCKS. It's short as fuck, but they don't fuck up shit constantly so for the time it gets and given the fact it's a WWF women's match, it's fine. Screwy finish and Ivory retains.

LITA 

*Rating: *3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


FINALLY THE ROCK HAS COME BACK TO SHEFFIELD. Now hurry up and fuck off you numpty. He does a promo/interviewy thing. Same old shit.


*Perry Saturn Vs Steve Blackman - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

:mark: YES! Hardcore title match :mark:. After Unforgiven we didn't get a hardcore title match on normal PPV until NO WAY OUT 2001. RR match doesn't count .

Perry Saturn hits ONE OF DEM MEXICAN MOVES over the ropes to Blackman. :lmao @ Tazz. Almost as bad as me and the Japanese A Vs Japanese B thing.

They do some cool shit early on with moves, then outcome the weapons and things go from eeeee to EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE kinda fun. Fuck me at Saturn drop toe holding Blackman into the trash can. Blackman's head smacks it and damn, not often a trash can shot looks that painful .

Saturn probably does his best "wrestling" in this match than I recall seeing in WWF. Combine that with the weapons and damn, guaranteed FUN.

Saturn does the suicide dive through the ropes into a weapon spot. But it's a metal tray rather than a chair which just doesn't seem as impactful lol. Looks cool at least .

STICKS~! No not the the band. The weapons. 

Martial Arts kick to the chair that smacks into Saturn's face and this is done. :mark: this was fun. GOD I FUCKING MISS THE HARDCORE TITLE DAMMIT.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*William Regal Vs Crash Holly - WWF European Championship Match*

Great promo from Regal backstage before the match. He both manages to get over as a babyface AND rip apart England... and STILL get cheered afterwards :lmao.

MOLLY HOLLY'S TITS.

:lmao Regal continues his promo in the ring before the match starts too. Awesome.

:lmao at the "CHYNA I'M PREGNANT" sign.

DAMN at those stiff elbow shots in the corner. Regal is definitely upping his game a little being in England. Everything he did looked nasty. While normally in the US he wasn't quite as vicious for the first few months in the company.

Regal gets a 3 count but Crash's foot was on the ropes. Ref talks to someone and MOLLY hits a dropkick. Crash pins Regal and wins the European title. MOLLY BEAT REGAL.

:lmao Regal fucking DECKS MOLLY and starts kicking her in the head :lmao.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Angle is backstage with Benoit, asking him for his support in the 4 way title match tonight. Benoit got bigger fish to fry tonight, Kurt.


*Chyna & Billy Gunn Vs Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko*

:lmao Eddie is awesome. That is all .

CHYNA PRESSING EDDIE OVERHEAD.

Teddy Long refereeing. Duh. Tag match.

Tazz keeps calling Chyna's man tits "biscuits". Shut up, Tazz.

Stuff happens in this match, but honestly I was too busy cringing at Tazz's HORRIBLE commentary. He was fine up until this point. Then for some reason Chyna confused him and he went to hell.

Match is what it is. And what it is I don't know.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Kane Vs Chris Jericho*

Match is announced as a "one fall to a finish" match. Well duh. Unless it's a fucking 2/3 falls or Iron Man match then yeah, of course that's what it fucking is.

:mark: this match is more like their SS match and less like their LMS match. FIGHT. There's a little sequence with Jericho charging at Kane only to be punched in the face, followed by Jericho getting back up and doing the same thing again... well on about the 4th punch, Jericho doesn't so much bump off the punch as just run into Kane's fist and collapse :lmao. Think he might have taken a real shot to the face there .

Y2GAY sign. Ha.

I started to become a Jericho fan around this time, because my parents bought me a Jericho t-shirt and I didn't wanna tell them I hated him . So as I pretended to like him any time he came on screen, I started paying more attention to him and started actually liking him for the most part lol. Imagine if they'd bought me a ROCK t-shirt? I'd have told them to take it fucking back 8*D.

CHOKESLAM. This one is over. Jericho attacks Kane after the match. Good stuff, but essentially just a short version of their SS match.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


LITA FAP FAP FAP AND TRISH FAP FAP FAP BACKSTAGE FIGHT ALL SEXY AND HALF NAKED AND FAP FAP FAP IVORY HALF NAKED TOO FAP FAP FAP.


*The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs The Hardy Boys - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

No LITA at ringside after her backstage brawl .

Jeff starts showing up Bull by doing all his flippy shit and taking him down and stuff. Then he celebrates too near the RTC corner and Goodfather fucking KILLS HIM with a super clothesline :lmao.

Not to be outdone by his brother, Matt tries to commit suicide or something by lobbing himself face first into the ring post. Good stuff .

Basic tag match, nothing worth going out of your way to see. Val helps his RTC buddies and that's that.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Kurt is talking with E&C, trying to get their moral support for the match later. Christian is too hurt from going through the table. 

Undertaker on his way to the ring, but Benoit distracts him and the Radicals attack the American Bad Ass! They destroy his knee.


*Chris Benoit Vs The Undertaker*

They tease Undertaker not being able to make it out, but he comes limp(Bizkit)ing his way down to the ring anyway!

So Undertaker has the knee problem going into the match, and Benoit obviously goes after it. However not enough damage was done and Undertaker can still dictate a lot of the pace in the match. :lmao at Benoit trying to wrap Undertaker's leg around the ring post, only for 'Taker to smash his head into the post. Benoit's bump and subsequent fall looks hilariously awesome with the steel steps preventing you from seeing where he lands. Might make a GIF for it if I can be arsed. We'll see.










Yeah, I made the gif .

Undertaker keeps going to his power to control the match, but any time he thinks his knee is ok again, Benoit spots an opening and just tears at it some more.

We get a somewhat lengthy (given the entire length of the match anyway) control segment with Benoit doing a pretty good job of destroying Undertaker's leg. HEADBUTT TO THE KNEE. GOAT. Then Undertaker hits a small package and gets the quick 3!!! THE UNDERTAKER HAD TO USE A SMALL PACKAGE. Similar match to the FL Angle match, except Undertaker was able to destroy Kurt at the end. Here he had to resort to a fucking roll up. BENOIT GETS PUT OVER AGAIN!

Good match, but damn, this needed to happen on a big stage a few years later. Hell even in 02 it could have been magnificent. But 05 onwards? Hell motherfucking yeah. Would have been epic.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Kurt Angle Vs Rikishi Vs The Rock Vs Steve Austin - WWF Championship Match*

Rock and Austin take turns at fighting Angle in the ring and fighting Rikishi on the outside. Then they double team Rikishi. Angle in the mean time fucks off with the WWF title. Rock goes after him which makes no sense. LET HIM LEAVE. More chance of winning a triple threat than a 4 way ya dumb fuck. God I hate The Rock!

LOL at Rikishi fucking up a "whip opponents into each other out of the corner" spot when he decides to fall out of the ring instead of into the corner. Poor Rock is mid-whipping Angle on the other side and has to quickly switch it up and lob Angle outside. 

AUSTIN AND ROCK STAREDOWN. STUNNER TO THE ROCK. EVERYONE TRIES TO COVER THE ROCK. NOBODY LIKES THE ROCK. LOL.

Austin is just killing it in this match. Absolute fucking WORKHORSE. He never slows down, starting with running to the ring to start this thing off, right up until the end. He's always in the action and always doing something great. ROCK BOTTOM TO AUSTIN. BOOOOO.

ANGLE SLAM TO ROCK. YEY!

Edge & Christian show up to show moral support for Angle anyway. AWWWW THEY DO LOVE KURT AFTERALL!

The Radicals show up next to give Angle more moral support because, well, E&C just weren't enough lol. Rock and Austin are busy with all the interference, allowing Angle to hit the Angle Slam on Rikishi and retain his title!

This was fun. Nonstop action with very little of the "2 in 2 out" formula. A lot of the time all 4 guys, or at least 3 of them were in the ring at the same time trying to kill each other.

Angle retains the title but Austin and Rock hit finishers on the Radicals to let the fans go home happy. 

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9*​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

As I rewatched Del Rio/Ziggler from MITB last night, I honestly came to the realization that Del Rio is one of my favorite workers on the entire roster. The guys just has the perfect moveset for the WWE style. Nothing but high impact offense to bring a rise out of the crowd and beautiful psychology on the arm in damn near every one of his matches. Also idk what it is but I fucking love the remixed new version of his thems ong (when it became faster). It's so... catchy.  Duh duh dun DUH DUH dun duh duh dun DUH DUH, dun dun duhhhhhhh



Cactus Jack said:


> WHEN? WHERE? HOW? WHY DON'T I KNOW ABOUT THIS?!?!


Well they had 4 of the same matches so I'm not exactly sure which is truly called the DEATH match, but think it's Bash at the Beach '97. Their best encounter was Great American Bash '96 though and I believe they had another FCA match on Nitro in '96 as well. Idk, check out www.profightdb.com


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SummerSlam this year did a really bad buyrate. Like, significantly below 2011, which REALLY surprises me considering how well this year's show was built. Oh well, I spent my money to go live 

Once I get my math test out of the way, this weekend is going to be dedicated to WWE, GTAV, and NFL. Hopefully my MITB2011, ER2012, and SSlam2013 DVDs come in...okay, they won't, but I can dream.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

SS 2013 was higher than last years. http://www.ewrestlingnews.com/news/20242/the-2013-wwe-summerslam-buyrate-is-in-details


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The report in the PPV section said it did less than 2011. Or maybe I'm not paying attention :side:

Oh well, still getting dat SummerSlam DVD hopefully sometime the next week :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm not sure which one of you aren't paying attention but that report says it did far less than last year's and about the same as 2011. The 2010 buyrate amazes me, guess people really wanted to see Nexus brought down by the Hitman...


----------



## Hrithik (Jul 2, 2012)

*Brock Lesnar vs A-Train*

Not a bad match + Brock on the mike!


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm not sure which one of you aren't paying attention but that report says it did far less than last year's and about the same as 2011. The 2010 buyrate amazes me, guess people really wanted to see Nexus brought down by the Hitman...


 Just noticed I said last years accidently. I meant 2011


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The post in the PPV section says SummerSlam 2011 did 311,000, but that's probably with late buys added in, so I guess 2013 will probably end up DRAWING~! the same.

I remember quite a bit of buzz around the 2010 show. I nearly creamed my pants when Danielson came out :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder if people prefer 2011 or 2013 for SummerSlams. 2011 had an excellent top to bottom card, 2013 had a mad triple ME and some other fun under/midcard stuff.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

2011 had Orton/Christian but I'd take 2013 any day of the week for Brock/Punk and Bryan/Cena + Orton and HHH's heel turn.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Sat down to try push onwards with my Dangerous Alliance journey. Started up with the first weekend after Halloween Havoc 1991, and two matches worthwhile. One of them, very fun 6 man tag between Hayes/Windham/Rhodes up against Austin/Enforcers. And the other Arn/Windham.

Starting the former, hot six man tag between probably the best workers in the company at this stage. Isn't given much time, but some hot tags, good sequences and exchanges between the workers in the match. Very enjoyable.

And for the latter, it's on the other side of the 'hot' scale. Moves at a pace that Vladimir Kozlov would be proud with. But that isn't too bad considering how they were working. It did feel like it was out of the page of Ric Flair babyface vs Ric Flair heel though. And considering they opted to go with the chilled tempo, the lack of bombs being thrown around and a finish which dropped the match and turned it redundant, this match left a lot to be desired.

If only Power Hour was downloading though.


----------



## Gaston (Aug 3, 2013)

*Re: Brock Lesnar vs A-Train*

Hey guys, doesn't A-Train look like Tensai? Still real 2 me dammit


----------



## neolunar (Apr 19, 2012)

*Re: Brock Lesnar vs A-Train*

We should open a new thread for every "not a bad" rated match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Might as well make a top 10 matches of 2013 list

1 Brock Lesnar vs CM Punk( ****3/4)
2: Dolph Ziggler vs ADR ( payback, ****3/4)
3: CM Punk vs The Undertaker(****3/4)
4: CM Punk vs John Cena( ****1/2)
5: Daniel Bryan vs Antonio Cesaro( **** 1/2)
6: Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro( ****1/2)
7: John Cena, Ryback, and Sheamus vs the Shield( ****1/4)
8: John Cena vs Daniel Bryan( ****)
9: Christian vs ADR(****)
10: WHC MITB match( ****) 

Cena/Henry and Ziggler/ ADR MITB is probably right behind these


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Not going to indulge in the MOTYC list yet, however I wrote like 20 matches down and there are alot most of you (*except Saint D kinda*) haven't mentioned or forgot about.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having read numerous reviews/thoughts on the Punk/Brock match, i have never had an issue with any of the Heyman involvment in it, some people even said he sorta ruined it a bit, not in the slightest IMO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imma rewatch Miz/Bryan NOC :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Imma rewatch Miz/Bryan NOC :mark:


#3 MOTY for the 2010... but 2010 sucked.  Still an awesome match.


----------



## Old_John (Aug 21, 2013)

*Re: Brock Lesnar vs A-Train*



Gaston said:


> Hey guys, doesn't A-Train look like Tensai? Still real 2 me dammit


Yea, that was before he magically changed his race! :agree:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wrestlemania 19

Matt Hardy vs Rey Mysteri: *** 1/4
Taker vs Big Show and A-train: ***
Trish Stratus vs Jazz vs Victoria: ** 3/4
Team angle vs Los Gurreros vs Rhyno and Chris Benoit: *** 1/2
HBK vs Chris Jericho: *** 3/4
HHH vs Booker T: ****
Hulk Hogan vs Vince Mcmahon: *** 1/4
SCSA vs The rock: **** 3/4
Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle: ****

Such a great show, second best Mania of all time IMO


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

***3/4 for Shawn/Jeribeard and **** for Haitch/Bookah? Kinda curious.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Never understood all the love for the Stone Cold/Rock match from WM19, not better than **** for me. Their Backlash match was better, IMO and their WM17 is definetely better


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

***3/4-4 hbk/y2j
***3/4 scsa/rock


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

For Austin/Rock WM 17 and 19 matches are both **** 3/4. HBK/Jericho was not the classic I was expexting and HHH/Booker is underrated as fuck IMO.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Never understood all the love for the Stone Cold/Rock match from WM19, not better than **** for me. Their Backlash match was better, IMO and their WM17 is definetely better


 It's a simple story told perfectly by both men. Rock has never beaten Austin before at Mania and Austin wanted to beat Rock 3 times in a row at the grandest stage of them all but it's the way they both used logic to build the finishers. Three Rock Bottoms to win and Austin sells them like his back has been broken. Not to mention Rock's facial expressions when Austin keeps kicking out. It's not like Rock - Cena II where they no-sold finishers and just overused finishers for no reason.

I still prefer WM 17 though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> For Austin/Rock WM 17 and 19 matches are both **** 3/4. HBK/Jericho was not the classic I was expexting and HHH/Booker is underrated as fuck IMO.


I thought HBK vs Jericho WM19 was by FAR their best match, both guys were in peak form unlike in 08' when Michaels career was coming to an end and Jericho's years had started to show. I give it ****1/2. Loved it, such a great pace and story told, and not a single botch in sight. People go ape for their No Mercy Ladder match and I just don't get it. It was very good and very physical, and Jericho's performance in it was outstanding, but in no way was it one of the best 1 on 1 ladder matches, nor was it anywhere close to MotY. Their Judgement Day match was way better in 2008.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

both guys were NOWHERE near peak form, but its a decnet match, not a classic though

Thinking about watch one of these mega matches from summerslam 13, probaly punk/lesnar


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> both guys were NOWHERE near peak form, but its a decnet match, not a classic though
> 
> Thinking about watch one of these mega matches from summerslam 13, probaly punk/lesnar



Uh, yeah they were. Jericho had finally mastered the WWE style and was knocking it out of the park for the most part from 2001-2003. Shawn Michaels "peak" was 1995-1997 but as far as his second run goes, he was in great shape from 2003 on. Jericho said in his books an on his DVD that it was his best match ever so I don't know how that can't be considered peak form. And HBK said in his DVD that that match really got him comfortable in the ring again, that at a certain point about 3-4 minutes in he stopped being Michael Shawn Hickenbottom and started being HBK again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think its there best match too 

MAYBE I would go ****, but that is as high as I would go


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Obviously nobody can refute HBK peak years were 94-97, IMO in his second run his best years were 04,07,08. Im not high on 03 for hbk, concerned himself on work rate most of the time

For Jericho, I actually truly believe his best years in ring is 08-present


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't think Jericho or Michaels were anywhere near peak form in 2003 and I also don't think their years were starting to show at all in 2008. Many would argue Jericho was the wrestler of the year in '08 (didn't he win that award somewhere?). When you look at what both guys accomplished in 2008-2009 and even Jericho's comeback in 2012 I don't think they ever really slowed down. Not speaking for some of Jericho's most recent performances though. I will say I like the Mania XIX match but I do prefer their '08 stuff, specifically Judgment Day cause that's just a fucking masterpiece of wrestling art.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ thats what I'm saying

those hbk/taker matches alone should make his 09-10 yrs great, I actually enjoyed Y2J most recent run (2013) with only payback with punk and the fandango match being the only terrible matches


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't seen the Jusgement day match, need to check that out


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's certain matches that I'll whore out til the day I die that I just do not think get the credit they truly deserve and Jericho/Michaels at Judgment Day is gonna be one of them (I bet some of you can probably guess another one). The character work, storytelling, mannerisms, pacing, suspense, etc. EVERYTHING was on point in that match. One of my true favorites. I'll dig up my old review if anyone wants it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Won't disagree on Judgement Day 2008 being a piece of art, because I absolutely loved it. Not as much as their Mania match but it was great all the same. The rest of their matches ranged from merely average to good in 08, not a fan of Unforgiven, GAB was okay not great, No Mercy was good but not mind blowing like what they did at Mania and JD. And for my money, ill take WCW Jericho and WWE 2001-2005 Jericho over anything he has done since he came back. There are obvious exceptions to the rule like his Mania match with Punk and Survivor Series 2007 with Cena, but if I had to choose, 1996-2005 Jericho>>>>2008-2013 Jericho.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

IDK when Jericho's peak is. My favourite year for him is probably 1998 because his character was completely incredible and added to every match he was in regardless of whether the match was good or not, but I don;t think he was a better worker than he was in a year like 2001. IDK about 2003. I think thanks to the tagging with Christian I actually prefer his 2002. On the other hand I think Michaels may have been at his very worst in 2003. Actually no, 2005/2006 was his worst, but I don't like him in 2003 at all either. Actually 2007 is probably the only Michaels year I like post-90s, but I've said that kind o' stuff before.


First person to plz~ give me a wrestler to watch I literally watch five of their matches and talk about them, no questions asked. You can be specific with years or feuds or whatever. Just as long as the match aren't terribly long. GO! Plz~?  IDK why I'm not watching for that 2010 list. I think giving myself a 'project' of any kind is just destined to fail at this point and I'm better off being random with my watching. I won't give up on it yet, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK when Jericho's peak is. My favourite year for him is probably 1998 because his character was completely incredible and added to every match he was in regardless of whether the match was good or not, but I don;t think he was a better worker than he was in a year like 2001. IDK about 2003. I think thanks to the tagging with Christian I actually prefer his 2002. On the other hand I think Michaels may have been at his very worst in 2003. Actually no, 2005/2006 was his worst, but I don't like him in 2003 at all either. Actually 2007 is probably the only Michaels year I like post-90s, but I've said that kind o' stuff before.
> 
> 
> First person to plz~ give me a wrestler to watch I literally watch five of their matches and talk about them, no questions asked. You can be specific with years or feuds or whatever. Just as long as the match aren't terribly long. GO! Plz~?  IDK why I'm not watching for that 2010 list. I think giving myself a 'project' of any kind is just destined to fail at this point and I'm better off being random with my watching. I won't give up on it yet, though.


THE WALL.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jack Swagger vs. Rey Mysterio circa 2010. GO 

or just Rey

or just Swagger

SHIT, Cal beat me


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> IDK when Jericho's peak is. My favourite year for him is probably 1998 because his character was completely incredible and added to every match he was in regardless of whether the match was good or not, but I don;t think he was a better worker than he was in a year like 2001. IDK about 2003. I think thanks to the tagging with Christian I actually prefer his 2002. On the other hand I think Michaels may have been at his very worst in 2003. Actually no, 2005/2006 was his worst, but I don't like him in 2003 at all either. Actually 2007 is probably the only Michaels year I like post-90s, but I've said that kind o' stuff before.
> 
> 
> First person to plz~ give me a wrestler to watch I literally watch five of their matches and talk about them, no questions asked. You can be specific with years or feuds or whatever. Just as long as the match aren't terribly long. GO! Plz~?  IDK why I'm not watching for that 2010 list. I think giving myself a 'project' of any kind is just destined to fail at this point and I'm better off being random with my watching. I won't give up on it yet, though.


Rick Rude 1992-1993


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah blessing us with his thoughts

Ive said for a while now, you can look through my older posts, HBK 2003 is one of his worst year outside, of fthe start of his singles career, I think he preoccupied himself with proving he still was hbk and that the injury didnt hinder him anymore, so he tried to make most of his match that year OMGZZ& classics, when he didn't have to, he snapped back into it in 04 though

About to watch punk/lesnar again excited !!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> THE WALL.


DONE! I had to google search him to find out who he is....but DONE!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> DONE! I had to google search him to find out who he is....but DONE!


WOAH... you didn't know who THE WALL was? Urge to ban rising...



Updated WWF 2000 PPV CAL SCALE rankings:

Judgement Day - 17
Royal Rumble - 17
Unforgiven - 15
King of the Ring - 14.5
No Way Out - 13.5
SummerSlam - 13
WrestleMania 16 - 10
*Rebellion - 9*
No Mercy - 7
Survivor Series - 6
Armageddon - 4

Overall Rebellion is actually a solid event, unfortunately it lacks a great match to bump up the points.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Completely random topic change.

A testament to how great this year has been with TV matches is how many of them have just been completely forgotten or unmentioned because guys like Bryan & the Shield who seemingly wrestle each other at least once or twice a month and tear the house down. I watched *Orton vs. Punk* from the *July 8th RAW* last night and thought it was great. Like, really good midcard level PPV stuff. Good scouting from both guys on their opponent's signature moves since they know each other so well. Orton twisting around for the powerslam while Punk held the ropes was hilarious. Honestly could've taken a few more minutes of this, good match. *** 1/4 - *** 1/2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I thought HBK vs Jericho WM19 was by FAR their best match, both guys were in peak form unlike in 08' when Michaels career was coming to an end and Jericho's years had started to show. I give it ****1/2. Loved it, such a great pace and story told, and not a single botch in sight. People go ape for their No Mercy Ladder match and I just don't get it. It was very good and very physical, and Jericho's performance in it was outstanding, but in no way was it one of the best 1 on 1 ladder matches, nor was it anywhere close to MotY. Their Judgement Day match was way better in 2008.


I used to think No Mercy ladder match was overrated but now I think it might be the second greatest singles ladder match after Benoit/Jericho. Rewatched it while I was going through Jericho's DVD and it's amazing. Plenty of brutal spots and quality performances from both, specially Y2J. That forward fall to the outside of the ring was SCARY. Watching it scares me, I can only imagine the feeling if you're taking such a fall. And Jericho also lost a tooth when the ladder hit his face between the ropes early on.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> There's certain matches that I'll whore out til the day I die that I just do not think get the credit they truly deserve and Jericho/Michaels at Judgment Day is gonna be one of them (I bet some of you can probably guess another one). The character work, storytelling, mannerisms, pacing, suspense, etc. EVERYTHING was on point in that match. One of my true favorites. I'll dig up my old review if anyone wants it.


Speaking of matches being pimped, you still haven't gotten around to that RVD/Orton match we talked about months ago, have you?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l0gj_raw-randy-orton-vs-rob-van-dam_sport


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Speaking of matches being pimped, you still haven't gotten around to that RVD/Orton match we talked about months ago, have you?
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2l0gj_raw-randy-orton-vs-rob-van-dam_sport


Hahaha. Nope, sure haven't. Gonna force myself to watch it this weekend. PROMISE!


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The almighty Wall. No idea what else to write here.

THE WALL v. Sting (Thunder 4/26/00)
So Sting's covered in blood from a Vampiro blood bath on Nitro and for whatever reason hasn't washed it off........? That's actually pretty tame and sensible for 2000 WCW. This is a table match that ends in like one minute, but I kind of liked what I saw from the Wall. He had a good right hand uppercut throw jab whatever you want to call it (hook?) and it makes me want to see him in a Mike Enos role (ENOSSS). Other the tiny bit of offense he gets here he's basically just Sting's punching and is an OK punching bag. He kind of 'boings' funny on moves but not in a way that makes he think he's a shitty overbumper. Sting goes for a sunset flip to the outside on the apron for he finish, and completely slips and lands on his ass. Brilliant. 

THE WALL v. Bam Bam Bigelow (Nitro 2/14/00)
Hardcore title match with foreign commentary (YES). The Wall coming out with that certain music and wearing a suit for whatever reason rings a bell. Like I watched him a long time ago and he slipped my mind. or I've just heard that music somewhere before. This was passable, but felt kind of long for four minutes. Other than stomps they basically just hit each with weapons and the hits didn't seem too significant or like actual weapon hits. Like, even in my favourite nuttiest weapons brawls the weapon hits are much more 'holy shit' than a regular stomp, but here it kind of felt all the same. They weren't even really selling them spotty or anything, maybe t was just too back and forth. The Wall totally takes a chairs hot to the head, btw. If Bigelow swung that thing hard the Wall would have gotten brain damage. The foreign commentary in this sparked this incredible moment where the Wall gets put through a table and you just hear Don West's 'YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME' out of nowhere. It's as if the foreign team (and in case you haven't noticed I can't really tell what language that is) just has that on mp3 for whenever something big happens. Why wouldn't they!?

THE WALL v. Kevin Nash (Thunder 11/23/99)
Maybe it's because I haven't been watching too much graps lately (and have instead been watching SQUID GIRL) and because of that, in some bizarre way, my 'standards' have lowered, but I sort of liked Nash's strikes and knees here. I guess 'liked' isn't the right word because there's nothing to go out your way to see, but I kind of expect them to be worse. His selling on strikes and shit was crap, though. I get that wrestlers kind of don't like people who haven't wrestled commenting on the job they did because netnerds like us apparently 'think we have all the answers', but shit, Nash had a fair bit years under his belt as a wrestler here.....you'd think he'd get something as simple as a punch sell right. He bumped on clotheslines, at least, which is more than some people give him credit for. I remember some good Wall offense here and nothing much else from him.

THE WALL/Shane Douglas v. Kronik (Nitro 5/15/00)
Uhhhhhhh what was this? There were a bunch of promos before the match but I skipped them because they seemed too long. Supposedly Douglas said 'the New Blood sticks together' or some shit....and then during the match fucks off. I don't know exactly what happens, like, there's just a bunch of brawling and then the Wall and Adams are fighting in-ring while Douglas and Clark go off-screen near the ramp, and then Clark comes back alone. I loved the referee in all of this too. He doesn't do that 'let's break that shit', he just bounces around PRENTEDING to do that 'let's break shit up'. Match is pretty awful. The Wall puts Clark through a table and then tries to do the same with Adams, but the table doesn't break. So he has to Sabu it and splash through the table instead (and the moment he's trying to get Adams to lay on there is awkward as shit). By the time he splashes Adams through the table, Clark is up and just randomly pissed off, hitting the table he was just put through in anger. THEN, he slaps Adams on the back and Adams is perfectly OK after all that table business. They put the Wall through the announce table and end the match. OH BUT WAIT, aftermath......The Wall gets medical assistance only to assault those guys too ("he's killin' the paramedics!!!"), and put one of them through a table. Fuck this bullshiz, tbphayley.

THE WALL v. The Mamalukes (Thunder 6/7/00)
More hardcore title stuff.....yey~? This started out pretty fun, the Mamalukes were discussing (......?) something backstage and the Wall just bulldozes them from behind. Then Buchanan throws (.....????) something at him (a giant box of mac and cheese?) to stop him. Vito got some good strikes. Does it? IDK, he was sort of clubbing the Wall and it just made an extremely cool noise. They get to the ring eventually I even though I just watched it and it wasn't very long, I couldn't really tell you much about this. Douglas comes in and attacks the Wall, which sort of explains him leaving in the match I just watched. A betrayal in wrestling? YOU FIEND!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao can't believe you actually watched that crap. But well done for doing so anyway .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I used to think No Mercy ladder match was overrated but now I think it might be the second greatest singles ladder match after Benoit/Jericho. Rewatched it while I was going through Jericho's DVD and it's amazing. Plenty of brutal spots and quality performances from both, specially Y2J. That forward fall to the outside of the ring was SCARY. Watching it scares me, I can only imagine the feeling if you're taking such a fall. And Jericho also lost a tooth when the ladder hit his face between the ropes .
> 
> ]



I own the Jericho set so maybe ill give it a rewatch, I've seen it twice, but one of the times I wasn't paying attention at all and the other time I just kept seeing sloppiness and some spots that didn't make sense (HBK elbowing the ladder 

I've found the mood I'm in and how tired or awake I am can wildly change my opinion on a match. Maybe third times a charm, I really wanted to like that match as Jericho and HBK are both some of my favorite guys. We will see.

Not right now though, I just got the History of the WHC set, the Best Stars of the 90s set, and the Twisted Life of Kane set in the mail today from Amazon for $23! 

About to dial up Ricky Steamboat vs Vader from WCW Saturday Night, someone on here was pimping it as one of the greatest matches Vader ever had, super excited for it.


Edit- Yeah1993, shoulda gone with Rick Rude . You can never go wrong with that guy, especially 1992, my favorite year from him.


----------



## un_pretti_er (Nov 13, 2012)

*Re: Brock Lesnar vs A-Train*

I was always a big Albert fan. Really enjoyed his stuff with Test in the AE. I still mark for Baldo Bombs.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> :lmao can't believe you actually watched that crap. But well done for doing so anyway .


You say that like you know it would have been bad. SON OF A BITCH I WAS FOOLED? I'd say only the Kronik match was all that bad, though. I have no intention of ever watching the rest again, but it wasn't torture, at least. That's a positive? 




Cactus Jack said:


> Edit- Yeah1993, shoulda gone with Rick Rude . You can never go wrong with that guy, especially 1992, my favorite year from him.


I said 'first person' and I STUCK TO IT! Probably a mistake, but what the hell.


I think I'm going to spend my next batch of major free time writing hundreds of wrestlers on paper putting them in a box to draw them lucky dip-style to choose what to watch. Or I can finally watch the DVDs I've own for three years. HEEEEEY I can watch those DVDs while writing wrestlers' names at the same time. I probably won't write 'Kofi Kingston' at any point, though. 'Melons to that fooking plonker', as they say in Welsh (it'll catch on eventually, I have SI on it).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> You say that like you know it would have been bad. SON OF A BITCH I WAS FOOLED?


Well DUH :lmao.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Re: Brock Lesnar vs A-Train*

Yeah, I remember that match. It was solid. Many people forget how good A-Train was in 2003. I was a fan of his tag team pairing with Big Show. I also remember liking his matches with Chris Benoit on Smackdown (not big on their No Mercy 03 match though). I always thought A-Train was underrated even before his work in AWPW and NJPW.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Fuck The Wall. He totally ruined what could have been a star making performance from Billy Kidman. I know I was only 9 years old when it happened but I'm still pissed about WCW Souled Out 2000 where The Wall basically squashes him in a cage match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So glad the WWE is fucking jobbing out the Real Americans to Santino Marella on consecutive weeks. Ugh.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Finally watched Wrestlemania 25 for the first time this evening. Undertaker v HBK was just incredible, a match like that is why I'm a wrestling fan. An absolute treat to watch. 
Orton v HHH is the only match I haven't seen as it's on disc 2 - is it worth watching or is it really that bad?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I literally thought you meant a wall, like stare at the wall :lmao wow

Punk/lesnar viewing #3

Wow, just tremdous it truly is,not much more you can say that hasnt pbeen said before, I havent seen cena/lesnar in a while but I have a hard think its better than this, this is a top 15-20 match in wwe history IMO

-I love the pre-package video, one of the best ever, the part with Punk with the hoodie on and the glare in the background is BADASS

- I love the little details in this match, Heyman literally is a GOD at this point, just makes any match better with him ring side, :lmao :lmao at the part when Brock is manhandling punk and he screams "this is your boy" haha

I have to watch cena/bryan again


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Triple H, always doing what's best for business, giving us a match with the Usos even though PTP is getting twice the reaction that they are right now


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching Mania 25 right now, Taker/HBK is about to start and I just realized that I have only seen this twice. Whatever, its still the GOAT match.

The definition of a one match show, though I thought Matt vs Jeff was a fun brawl. And I'm hoping I'll like HHH/Orton even though I heard its crap.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Wrestlemania 25:

MITB Match: *** 1/2
Diva battle royal: DUD
Chris Jericho vs Legends: ** 1/2
Matt Hardy vs Jeff Hardy: *** 1/2
Shawn Michaels vs the Undertaker: *****
JBL vs Mysterio: DUD
Cena vs Show vs Edge: *** 3/4
Orton vs HHH: ** 1/2

One match show easily. Theres two duds on here and the ME doesn't deliver IMO. But HBK/TAKER :mark: if you collect DVDS buy this just so you can own this match!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When I first watched WM 25 (live), I was so ashamed at what I saw. It should also be worth noting that I was on my hiatus from the WWE at the time, so I wasn't as engulfed in the Orton/HHH feud as others. After rewatching it, there were quite a few matches I liked, but I still can't call it a good event. I really liked the MITB match even if I feel that my boy Punk should have lost and Christian should have been the winner. Jericho vs. Legends (well really Steamboat) kicked ass. The Hardyz match is so underrated. HBK/Taker sucked. The two title matches were not very good, but the WHC match had a hilarious moment where Big Show tells the ref to get him out of the tangled ropes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I never bought the Orton/HHH having good build up. Orton kisses and assaults Steph resulting in HHH making that silly red face? Really? HHH breaking into Orton's house (a set up stage) and scaring his wife (an actress) before getting arrested in some pathetic attempt at being a Steve Austin-like badass? Get the fuck out. Shitty feud.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 steady spitting truth like always. Now go review some fatties beating the crap out of each other please. Or you could rewatch Meng/Sting from GAB 1995 now that the WWE uploaded it on their Youtube page.

MENG!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Mr.Limelight said:


> Orton v HHH is the only match I haven't seen as it's on disc 2 - is it worth watching or is it really that bad?


It's not awful imo, it's just really flat and not what it should've been. These two guys "hated" each other and it didn't really show. It's been years since I've seen it though.



smitty915 said:


> Wrestlemania 25:
> 
> MITB Match: *** 1/2
> Diva battle royal: DUD
> ...


I'm not quite understanding your logic. Idk if you just have really high standards for Wrestlemanias, but if we get any form of PPV with 3 matches in the ***1/2 - *** 3/4 range and a 5* classic, it's gotta be a damn good show. Not saying I actually think it's a damn good show but if I had those same ratings as yours I'd be pretty happy with it. Also I think it's kind of unfair to throw a DUD at Rey/JBL considering it wasn't really much of a match, going 21 seconds and all. More of a 'no rating' type of thing.

On a random note, it's a shame the Hardy match was fun at Mania then a pile of shit at Backlash. What an awful stip and an awful ending.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> WHEN? WHERE? HOW? WHY DON'T I KNOW ABOUT THIS?!?!





Jack Evans 187 said:


> As I rewatched Del Rio/Ziggler from MITB last night, I honestly came to the realization that Del Rio is one of my favorite workers on the entire roster. The guys just has the perfect moveset for the WWE style. Nothing but high impact offense to bring a rise out of the crowd and beautiful psychology on the arm in damn near every one of his matches. Also idk what it is but I fucking love the remixed new version of his thems ong (when it became faster). It's so... catchy.  Duh duh dun DUH DUH dun duh duh dun DUH DUH, dun dun duhhhhhhh
> 
> 
> Well they had 4 of the same matches so I'm not exactly sure which is truly called the DEATH match, but think it's Bash at the Beach '97. Their best encounter was Great American Bash '96 though and I believe they had another FCA match on Nitro in '96 as well. Idk, check out www.profightdb.com


SuperBrawl VII lads. 

and I love Del Rio. His theme song not so much. Preferred the original version. But his work: AWESOME. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am in total shock that Paramore fan approves of Del Rio. I thought the folks here saw him essentially as an overpushed Lance Storm in the sense that the guy executes moves well and "psychologically" makes sense, but can't formulate anything interesting. I personally like his in ring work and consider him the second best brawler on the roster behind Sheamus, but that's just me.

Can't wait to check out Superbrawl VII now. Paramore fan, did you check out Raven/Benoit from Nitro in 1998 yet?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Del Rio rules. I was iffy on him back when he first appeared via not buying the overpushing bs. It passed. He's used in a fashion that's better and his ring work - while always really good - has gotten better over his tenure. He's at his peak right now. The lack of interest in terms of character and/or program is still there _(I mean I care, but it isn't like his angles are engrossing, you know?_), but that's more WWE's fault than his own. Lazy booking will only give you so much. His matches are more than enough to usually jazz me up once it's his time on the show.

Nah, I haven't. Did watch Benoit vs Raven from Souled Out '98 though. Good stuff. Benoit's diving headbutt on the chair. Oh my, oh my, oh my.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I can't believe Jeff Hardy was wasted on that shitty feud with his brother in 09. He was the most popular wrestler in the industry at that time. They could have cashed in huge. At least WWE made up for it with the awesome Hardy/Punk feud later in the year


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jeff wanted to always work vs Matt at WM so it was mutual despite the slight decline from the championship picture. Once it was over he would be all over the World championship picture till he left, so there's that. Wished he was still in the company in general, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Matt was a made star after beating Jeff @ WM. Too bad they wasted him... again.

The thing about Del Rio is that he's one of those guys that, despite a severe lack of charisma, mic skills and character, he's always there to put on good performances with anyone. I can't wait to see him wrassle Rollins, just for the kickfest :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jeff Hardy vs. John Morrison should be required viewing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Matt was a made star after beating Jeff @ WM. Too bad they wasted him... again.
> 
> The thing about Del Rio is that he's one of those guys that, despite a severe lack of charisma, mic skills and character, he's always there to put on good performances with anyone. I can't wait to see him wrassle Rollins, just for the kickfest :mark:


Del Rio vs Zayn too please.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Jeff Hardy vs. John Morrison should be required viewing.


Would ask which specific match, but all of em tbhayley. Even the Nitro matches were good and got better with each outing.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

Anyone got a full review on Survivor Series 2000? I haven't seen it in a long time and barely remember anything from it. 

Might dig it up and watch it during the weekend.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's fun for that ol nostalgia trip. yet, I'd consider it one of the weaker events on the year 2000. Kane vs Jericho & Rock vs Rikishi are good. Austin vs Triple H is bleh and Undertaker vs Angle should have been better and I blame Angle for it. Great finish; fooled us all. Still stings me to see Undertaker get duped like that. SO CLOSE.

Had fun with the two elimination matches for what they were. Nothing special, but hot reactions from the crowd aplenty and loaded with a nice cast of characters.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Royal Rumble 09 or Survivor Series 09, folks?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That Guy said:


> Anyone got a full review on Survivor Series 2000? I haven't seen it in a long time and barely remember anything from it.
> 
> Might dig it up and watch it during the weekend.


I recently posted one here: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/23803377-post5565.html

Unfortunately it kinda sucks . 2nd worst PPV of 2000 so far, and with 3 more for me to watch, it's going to be 3rd worst AT BEST. Assuming Insurexxtion is as shitty as I remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Neither. SummerSlam ftw instead.

8*D


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

I like user Yeah1993's judging and analyzation of matches, but not the same expression is given to the match titles. Hopefully, he can review more mainstream bouts, preferably WWE ones and lower down on the judging of unknown performers like The Wall (wtf).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Royal Rumble or Survivor Series.* SummerSlam has nothing to do with the question :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched Rumble more so that wins. Big fan of that Rumble match actually.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SVS has some great midcard stuff and ME, but yeah I liked the Rumble better due to the super consistent card.

2009 is a badass year for the Big 4. WM 25 had Taker/Shawn so yeah.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RR quite easily. A great, great all round card. Series only really has the triple threat and one elimination tag. Other triple threat is solid and the other elimination tag (non diva crap) is ok too, but it's really just a 2 match show. RR is awesome top to bottom. 2nd GOAT Rumble match, super fun diva match (STOP KICKING YOURSELF! :lmao), good ECW title bout, great WWE title bout, and a great story based match for the WHC.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You mean I'm not the only one who didn't hate the two _(major)_ championship matches from Rumble? I don't believe it.

WM 25 isn't even THAT bad of a show. It's kind of like a weaker WM 29 with how it's solid all around with a classic in tact & a shit main event. Undertaker is in both MOTN's on each Mania too. God does it again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 25 is actually pretty good. Think it actually got into my top 10 WM's on the CAL SCALE.

RR 09 is a personal favourite show of mine. After watching it live I was on a wrestling high for about a month. Most fun I've had watching a live show ever probably.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

09 might just be one of the best years ever for the Big 4. Only competition comes from 92, 00, 01, 02 and 05:

- 1989 was saved by SVS;
- 1990 was a collective meh;
- 1991 had a bad SVS;
- 1993 sucked;
- 1994 was solid but not great;
- 1995 sucked;
- 1996 was a collective meh;
- 1997 had a bad WM;
- 1998 was very memorable, though still lacked;
- 1999 was worse than shit;
- 2003 was kinda poor;
- 2004 was 1/2 good (WM and SVS);
- 2006 was saved by WM;
- 2007 had a bad SSlam;
- 2008 is close but not in that level;
- 2010 was ok;
- 2011 had a bad WM;
- 2012 was unmemorable bar WM.

So yeah. 2013 may have a shot if SVS delievers, but then again the Rumble blew.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2003 was the tops in the "big four" area. Rumble lacked, but the other three, no way. WrestleMania 19 is the best one ever & SummerSlam '03 is easily the most underrated one in the whole of the franchise. Way better than 2009's collective effort when comparing all four shows.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> 09 might just be one of the best years ever for the Big 4. Only competition comes from 92, *00*, 01, 02 and 05:


Huh? Survivor Series was terrible. WM was underwhelming as fuck.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I forgot 2000 sucked  Thought I was talking about the rest.

17 > 19 imo, underratedness: 2001 > 2003 (barely anyone out there cares about 01, at least 03 is commonly acknowledged), SVS: pretty much a 1-match show and RR sucked. 03 I'm not a fan of tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

01 Vs 03:

RR 01 > RR 03 - RR 01 is THE BEST RR event overall bar none.

WM 19 > WM 17 - WM 19 is THE BEST WM event overall bar none.

SS 01 = SS 03 - Both have some good (Angle/Lesnar & Angle/Austin) and some shite (Hardy/RVD Ladder & La Resistance/Dudleys). If I had to decide... hmmm... not sure I could. Might lean in favour of 01 with Angle/Austin, Jericho/Rhyno, X-Pac/Tajiri and the FUN cage match over Angle/Lesnar, EC (fun), 4 way US title match and Undertaker/A-Train.

SVS 01 > SVS 03 - 01 has the epic main event, super fun TAJIRI match and the cage match. 03 is awful outside of the big elimination match, and even that is overrated to fuck .

So 01 > 03 for me, with only WM in 03 beating out 01.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love both years so it's all great to me. Except for Rumble '03. Only show I'm not a fan of. Brock vs Show and that's it on that night.

SummerSlam 2001 is one of my all time favorite PPVs. If not THE favorite. Dead serious. No underrating here. 2001 overall is my favorite year from WWF.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's not awful imo, it's just really flat and not what it should've been. These two guys "hated" each other and it didn't really show. It's been years since I've seen it though.
> 
> 
> I'm not quite understanding your logic. Idk if you just have really high standards for Wrestlemanias, but if we get any form of PPV with 3 matches in the ***1/2 - *** 3/4 range and a 5* classic, it's gotta be a damn good show. Not saying I actually think it's a damn good show but if I had those same ratings as yours I'd be pretty happy with it. Also I think it's kind of unfair to throw a DUD at Rey/JBL considering it wasn't really much of a match, going 21 seconds and all. More of a 'no rating' type of thing.
> ...


I meant it didn't really live up to expectations. I worded it wrong I think. Hey, It was late when I typed that, give me a break


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Ah, another good 6 man tag match courtesy of WCW '91. This time, entirely different line-up with the York Foundation taking battle to the Patriots & their partner, Bobby Eaton. York Foundation consisting off Ric(hard)ky Morton, Terr(ance)y Taylor & Tommy Rich. Would have to go back in time a bit further to understand why they matched those 3 up. But a great amount of talent gone wasted when I look back 22 years later. Imagine they looked wasted back when that was present, so yeah.

As for the match, Southern to start it up, hot-tag in the making with the methodical and well worked beatdown on Eaton and the typical crazy finishing courtesy of WCW's magic for tag matches. When I look at it now, yeah, formulaic. But some great performance. I enjoyed the run Taylor put in when he was in the match, but Eaton is the man of the match for taking the Morton-esque beatdown for the majority of it and doing it to the same note. What a guy. Good match, but nothing to rock the world.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bobby Eaton. The man who rocks the body to rock the party with his talents.

York Foundation was one of the most random assortment of wrestlers to be paired up in ever. Didn't think the faction brought out the best in Morton from a singles capacity. Thinking of some bad matches in my head while he was in that crew.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The best road to Wrestlemania is definitely 02-03 for me. Summerslam 02 has everything, Survivor Series 02 has 6 matches each of which are all fun as anything. Royal Rumble 03 has one of my favourite Rumbles ever and Wrestlamania 19 is recognized by many as the GOAT show.

Hard to say the worst because I can't think of a year where all four sucked.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

HayleySabin said:


> Bobby Eaton. The man who rocks the body to rock the party with his talents.
> 
> York Foundation was one of the most random assortment of wrestlers to be paired up in ever. Didn't think the faction brought out the best in Morton from a singles capacity. Thinking of some bad matches in my head while he was in that crew.


Definately. Think WCW noticed quickly he wasn't working out as a heel and the Foundation went down pretty quick after that. It's a shame because Taylor works the role very well. Not seen enough on Rich to justify having an opinion on him. But soon, more focus on Eaton's heel turn coming. Oh yeah.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

06 was a terrible year for the big 4, only WM was good IIRC


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> 06 was a terrible year for the big 4, only WM was good IIRC


Very true actually now thinking about it. WM22 is a lot of fun but my oh my Royal Rumble and Survivor Series were bad. Summerslam had Foley v Flair and Cena v Edge that were good but it wasn't exactly a good show for Summerslam standards.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mr.Limelight said:


> The best road to Wrestlemania is definitely 02-03 for me. Summerslam 02 has everything, Survivor Series 02 has 6 matches each of which are all fun as anything. Royal Rumble 03 has one of my favourite Rumbles ever and Wrestlamania 19 is recognized by many as the GOAT show.
> 
> Hard to say the worst because I can't think of a year where all four sucked.


1999 :vince4


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

ATF said:


> 1999 :vince4


Started watching in 2000 mate so can't say I've seen the big four from that year! 
Was KOTR considered a "big 5" PPV back in the day?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, yes it was. Unlike some people might think, the WWF always gave KOTR relevance, since it was 1/5 of the then Big 5.

Never watched 1999 stuff? Good for you, don't do so mate


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

ATF said:


> Yes, yes it was. Unlike some people might think, the WWF always gave KOTR relevance, since it was 1/5 of the then Big 5.
> 
> Never watched 1999 stuff? Good for you, don't do so mate


Haha fair enough mate. Asked that because I had KOTR 99 on VHS for some reason and always remember the main event of Stone Cold vs Shane & Vince and thought it was great


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Insurrextion 2000*

PREPARE YOURSELF FOR A MUTINY.


*2 Cool Vs Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko*

2 Cool should probably be my all time favourite tag team. Why? It's 2 white guys who can't dance for shit. THAT'S LIKE ME!!! 

Great tag work from Malenko and Saturn. They keep taunting GMS forcing him to run into the ring and distract the ref, allowing them to double team THE WORM. But there is some DISSENTION between them as of late because Saturn is the only Radical without a title. He ends up shoving Malenko at one point, right into a roll up!

DOUBLE WORM!!! :lmao at Saturn selling it and falling into the camera man.

HIP HOP DROP! This one is over.

Decent tag, fun, nothing more tbh. Hot crowd which helps too. Malenko and Saturn go at it after the match lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


VINCE MCMAHON! He actually flew to England! Yey! He's disappointed that The Rock is the new WWF Champion. Me too, Vince. Me too.


*Bull Buchanan Vs Kane*

Remember when Bossman and Buchanan took out Kane? I do, but I doubt many other people will .

Kane's left hand is in a cast thingy still.

Paul Bearer; HE'S 6 FEET WIDE, FACE LIKE A WELL KEPT GRAVE :lmao

Bull kinda lands on his feet from a back body drop which is cool to see from a guy of his size. Then he hits a DDT and Kane doesn't quite go with it. He's like half a second behind lol .

Buchanan should come back and join THE SHIELD. He's already got the outfit. Can replace Reigns while Reigns turns face and rocks the mother fucking world.

One handed chokeslam while I was writing that last sentence and this is over. SALAD DODGER! Too short to be anything.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


HHH and STEPHANIE FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP backstage. Damn, Steph got them LEGS on display. They are wondering who Vince meant earlier when he said a McMahon family member would leave champion. Did he mean HHH... or did he mean SHANE?


*Road Dogg Vs Bradshaw*

Have I mentioned yet how much I love the DX theme from this time? I have? Well good, because it's awesome. Yey TORI coming to the ring with Road Dogg. Don't need X-Pac to see her .

JR: SHE BELONGS ON PAGE 3. I am in agreement Mr Ross.

COME ON, BARK JR! :lmao

Road Dogg and Tori are MAD OVER.

:mark: Bradshaw. Can you believe that the APA only have 3 tag matches on PPV in 2000? And 5 matches in total with them being in the hardcore match at WM and then this. WE MAY SEE A TORI SANDWICH WITH ACOLYTE BREAD! Ha, sex joke.

Farooq gets ejected from ring side .

Doesn't help Road Dogg though, because Bradshaw is a killer anyway .

BRADSHAW DID A FLOAT OVER SUPLEX. Think about it. Then be shocked.

Oh man watching this match is hilarious thinking back to all the Road Dogg shoots where he talks about being terrified of the guy because he was so stiff in the ring :lmao.

HOLY SHIT ROAD DOGG WINS. CLEAN! IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING WITH HIS FINISHER! This was fun. Bradshaw beats the fuck out of Road Dodd, and Road Dogg gets a couple of shots in here and there. APA stuff, singles or tag, is always entertainment.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Terri with her tits nearly popping out eating a banana. Wonder what they are trying to do here? That face ruins everything though.


*The Kat Vs Terri - Arm Wrestling Contest*

:lmao no. Wait... I feel I need to watch this... but why?

Stalling... stalling... stalling... stalling... think I made a mistake here... more stalling... arm wrestling... spit in face, water bottle in face... Kat wins... 

THE KAT'S TITS! THE KAT'S TITS! ALL NAKED AND OUT AND STUFF!!!

Except we don't see them. Not on the DVD release anyway. It's time like this I'm glad I have other versions of the show .

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Dudley Boys Vs Rikishi & The Big Show*

SHOWKISHI~!

This is dull as fuck for the most part tbh... but one think I did take notice of was when the Dudley's hit the headbutt to groin spot, and Lawler describes it as D-Von going head first into "the old Jack Swaggs" :lmao. IS SWAGGER NAMED AFTER BALLS? :lmao

Edge & Christian show up and Bubba gets speared. Lawler: "THEY'RE DOING A RUN ON! IT'S A RUN ON!" :lmao what a fucking moron.

2 Cool come down and everyone dances. Yawn at this match.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle*

6 days after Backlash, and poor Benoit still has a killer black eye that's STILL swelled up. 

:lmao another Angle = Cody reference! "I'VE BEEN IN ENGLAND ALL WEEK LONG, AND I COULDN'T HELP BUT NOTCIE ONE THING. YOUR CHILDREN" :lmao you sick fuck Angle. You too Cody. 

Crash Holly... randomly... comes down to ringside to do commentary. No idea.

Oh, he wants to fight an Englishman for the hardcore title. Wonder who it'll be...

So Angle Vs Benoit on "PPV" in 2000 huh? They have 2 matches at Insurrextion, one this year and one next year. This one is often forgotten about because, well, so far the event in general is forgettable plus they weren't feuding during this time.

Angle is as un-Olympic as he's ever been here. EYE GOUGING~!

Mostly a brawl with Angle going after the eye, and honestly it's quite fun. :lmao at Angle using his free hand to shove the referee's finger into Benoit's eye to escape the crossface :lmao.

Nice little sequence leading into the Angle slam with Angle dodging a couple of bunches and countering into the Angle Slam. Match isn't a classic or anywhere near, but for the time it got they really worked the eye injury and it was done pretty nicely. I like this.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The British Bulldog Vs Crash Holly - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

Well seems we've found an Englishman to fight Crash lol.

Crash throws a bunch of weapons into the ring including a rubbish bin, but you can see it rolling outside on the other side of the ring. BUT you also see a camera man reach out to stop it. Then 2 seconds later you see that it's no longer in the ring. THE FUCK DID THE GUY DO? :lmao

:lmao all the weapons look like cheap versions of the American stuff. The "trash can" is some plastic shit, the steel chair is also plastic I'm fairly certain :lmao. Even the sticks look really thin and cheap :lmao. Where the fuck did they show for this crap? B&Q 8*D. Looks like shit but costs a fortune, so they probably thought it must be good for that price. Morons.

Powerslam on some sticks and we got a new hardcore champion. Well this was wank.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Edge & Christian earlier today signing autographs for £5. BARGAIN!


*The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

:lmao apparently E&C got facials after getting stinkfaced last week. I ain't touching that one.

I'M NOT INTO MENS HAIR LIKE YOU ARE.

Not much to ramble on here, because I was actually just WATCHING THE MATCH. Gets a lot of time and is, well, really fucking good. End with E&C using the ring bell to lay out the Hardy Boys and get DQ'd as they were just about to lose the belts.

Dudley's show up to gain revenge for what happened earlier. :lmao cheap looking shitty table too. It can barely stand up :lmao. Edge through the table.

This match might save the show from being the worst of 2000. In fact, it HAS. Still 2nd atm but who knows what else is still to come .

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - WWF European Championship Match*

:lmao at the hype video for this. ITS FAR FROM OVER BETWEEN JERICHO AND EDDIE GUERRERO & CHYNA! Except Jericho moved straight into a feud with Benoit afterwards for the IC title (which he now has), and only gets his "revenge" match on a UK PPV . Well a TV match too but come on, a TV match? LOL

Eddie is heel. Randomly. Wasn't he like, babyface going into Backlash?

:lmao a COIN FLIP to decide which title is up for grabs :lmao.

Jericho dominates at the start so Eddie decides to fuck off. And then Chyna throws Eddie back to the ring. Uhhh what? 

SPINNING HEEL KICK FROM JERICHO. And I'm fairly certain it was his BACK that actually connected with Eddie :lmao.

Chyna clotheslines Jericho on the outside. So she's fine with helping Eddie CHEAT to win, but getting counted out to retain the title is a no no?

:lmao at Lawler just throwing out random basic Spanish words in an attempt to prove to JR he can speak Spanish.

The crowd don't give a SHIT about this. Just like in 97, except in 97 they were having incredible matches.

DDT TO JERICHO BY CHYNA. That's how Eddie won the European title to begin with. Because apparently Chyna's DDT is more devastating than anyone else's.

OMG JERICHO KICKED HOW WHO COULD HAVE GUESSED HE WOULDN'T LOSE THE SAME WAY AS BEFORE I FOR ONE AM UTTERLY SHOCKED HOW DID HE MANAGE TO DO THAT THEY TOTALLY GOT ME I THOUGHT IT WAS OVER RIGHT THEN AND THERE OMG OMG I'M MARKING OUT BRO.

Title belt to the face and THAT ends the match.

Dead crowd certainly doesn't help, but eh, it's not like they were setting the world on fire.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


STEPHANIE FAP FAP FAP FAP looking super hot. HHH and Shane are there too. Not hot. They can't decide which one is gonna be the WWF Champ.


*The Rock Vs Triple H Vs Shane McMahon - WWF Championship Match*

COME ON, GET HIM TRIPLE H. YEAH! Vince has such an awesome face while he says that.

Rock gets Lawler's crown and puts it on Shane, then punches him in the face. So was that like, Rock taking a shot at the UK? Cunt. DON'T YOU PUNCH THE QUEEN!

:lmao at Shane and HHH just having fun doing some shuffling and punching. And these are the HEELS? I don't get it.

Then The Rock does it, but he ends up just stealing Dusty's move and bionic elbow. GET YOUR OWN SHIT YOU HACK. Then again your own shit is the People's Elbow, and how fucking shit is that? Makes THE WORM look credible.

HHH and Shane play nice for a while, until Shane breaks up a 3 count and then attacks HHH from behind! MOONSAULT! HHH moves, but Shane lands on his feet!!! :lmao at HHH SHOUTING to Rock "DDT" and then Rock hits a DDT :lmao.

:lmao at Shane going for a Pedigree, but he can't do it because he isn't strong enough.

REF BUMP~!

Rock gets LAID OUT... with the WOMEN'S TITLE BELT :lmao. Take that you prick. GERALD BRISCO!

LOW BLOW! PEDIGREE! SLOW COUNT FROM BRISCO FOR SOME REASON! 2 COUNT! BOOOOO!

:lmao HHH decks Brisco. SECOND PEDIGREE! But no referee, so Vince steals the ref shirt... but EARL HEBNER SHOWS UP!!! Vince punches the ring post aiming for Earl!

EARL HEBNER IN EARL'S COURT! LET'S GO EARL! LET'S GO EARL!

:lmao at the chase scene with Vince going after Earl. ROCK BOTTOM!

Shitty People's Elbow to Shane and this one is done. Terrible, terrible finish, but god what a fun match. I mean super fun. MCMAHON SHANANIGANS are always amazing.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7.5*​


----------



## robertdeniro (Apr 20, 2011)

> The Undertaker is featured heavily thought the entire documentary, and as we have learned over the past few days, Undertaker actually requested to be involved with the project. Taker doesn’t hold back as he offers his opinions and view points on a great number of topics ranging from the Greenwich Blue Blood character, to the shenanigans of DX. *However, one of the most interesting topics which Taker discusses was his WrestleMania matches with The Game, with this portion of the documentary including backstage clips following the Hell in a Cell match, including footage of a very emotional Vince McMahon*
> .


:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

yep, this means I'm buying Thy Kingdom come

Too bad the match selection isn't great


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> Del Rio vs Zayn too please.


:woolcock

I'm hard.



ATF said:


> Royal Rumble 09 or Survivor Series 09, folks?


I'm gonna go with Survivor Series simply because I loved the main event and thought the Orton/Kofi SSeries match was great when it came down to Kofi vs. Orton & Punk. I didn't think the Rumble was all that special on the last watch but the card's probably pretty solid all around. Might go back and watch it all someday. Think I gave Edge/Hardy and the Rubmle *** 1/2 each.



smitty915 said:


> yep, this means I'm buying Thy Kingdom come
> 
> Too bad the match selection isn't great


I actually like the match selection because it's not loaded with repeats and there's lots of TV gems on there. Should be fun.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah I watched RR09 and I didn't think it was brilliant. Everything was solid but nothing spectacular or anything. I thought the rumble match really dragged towards the end and didn't enjoy it that much.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Zayn vs Del Rio in 2014, please WWE, please. I'm already imaging Zayn selling his arm and Del Rios kicks like the absolute champ he is. 

So happy I ordered TKC to be delivered 9/24. Seeing Undertaker out of character will just be :mark: if they ever give Undertaker the full documentary treatment, I'm taking the day off of work, telling my girlfriend to fuck off, and just shutting everyone in the world out until I've watched all of the discs. 

I can't find a link for this Sullivan vs Benoit Deathmatch anywhere, looks like I'm just gonna have to find a place to buy the entire SuperBrawl VII. Although if I remember correctly, Jericho and Guerrero have an amazing match at the same event that the crowd gives no fucks about. So it'll be worth it. I've only seen 2 Benoit vs Sullivan matches, including the FCA ("THERE IS A WOMAN IN THE MEN'S BATHROOM!")


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thoughts on No way out 2009? Seems promising on paper


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Why would Taker wanna be affiliated with someone beneath him as The Game? Triple H is pathetic, always trying to big himself up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Thoughts on No way out 2009? Seems promising on paper


pretty good, the sd ec is the 3rd best chamber match IMO


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

smitty915 said:


> Thoughts on No way out 2009? Seems promising on paper


Both chamber matches are very good and I recall liking Orton/Shane a lot but I haven't seen it in years. I think the other two matches are passable but nothing special.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NWO 2009 has two very good EC matches and Orton/Shane and Shawn/JBL I'm too a fan of. Unfortunely Swagger/Finlay sucked.

What do y'all think of Bragging Rights 2009?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I've never seen the ME but I heard its ok. The 4 way is fun and I cant remember if I liked the tag match or not. IMO its the better of the two


----------



## Anguyen92 (Jun 24, 2011)

I found this small snippet from HHH's upcoming dvd. It's got the Undertaker out to say a couple of good words about HHH.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Summerslam 2007:

Finlay vs Kane: ** 3/4
Umaga vs Kennedy vs Carlito: *** 1/2
Divas battle royal: DUD
John Morrison vs CM Punk: **
Booker T vs HHH: *** 1/2
Khali vs Batista: DUD
John Cena vs Randy Orton: *** 3/4

Yeah, really nothing great here. the triple threat, Booker/HHH, and Orton/Cena are decent, but the fact that a summerslam had nothing over *** 3/4 is problem.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/2 for Booker/HHH? Is that like, a normal rating guys? Just curious because I don't pay much attention these days nor do I venture much outside of this thread... but ***1/2? Is he crazy or am I? Because I would struggle to go a single * for it .

***3/4 for Cena/Orton? Ok, that's more "normal" but I still think EVERYONE is crazy. Bad match . I HATE CENA VS ORTON THAT ISN'T NWO 08.

SS 07 is terrible. Pile of sticky wank cream.

HATEFUL CAL HAS RETURNED~! Not that he ever left. But my 2000 PPV's have been filled with positives more than negatives. Not that anyone seems to have noticed because I'm sure my last 2 ramblings went unnoticed . I PRAISED A ROCK MATCH AND CALLED IT FUN. FUN. WITH ROCK. WTF PEOPLE? ROCK SUCKS, HE SHOULDN'T BE FUN. GO AWAY.

2 more WWF PPV's to go, and they are more than likely gonna be the top 2. Or top 3, depends if RR splits them up or something. :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Summerslam 2007:
> 
> Finlay vs Kane: ** 3/4
> Umaga vs Kennedy vs Carlito: *** 1/2
> ...


You consider Orton/Cena decent despite giving it a ★★★3/4? Sounds like more than a decent match to me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah HHH/Booker sucks. Btw you forgot about the Rey vs. Chavo match on that card. Finlay/Kane is probably still my favorite match on that show.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

SummerSlam 07 is easily the worst SummerSlam they have pumped out.

But I do love that Kane/Finlay match, they just beat the shit out of each other :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal do you hate the Orton/Cena I Quit match? That wasn't NWO 

And before you call 'us' crazy, you rated Taker/Austin BL '02 ****1/4 you sick fucker :side:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena vs Orton SummerSlam 07 rules. If you wanna talk about a bad SS match with these two, look towards 09!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't hate it but don't love it either.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

oops, blanked about Rey/Chavo, *** 3/4 and MOTN IMO. 

I liked Booker/HHH


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Arn Anderson vs. Bobby Eaton on tap for today. Let's see if Eaton is as good as Paramore fan says.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Some Wrestlemania 25 ratings after I saw it last night.

MITB - ***3/4 (I don't think there's a MITB match that I don't think is good. I love spotfests. Put MITB back at Mania!)
Jericho v Legends - *** (My first Steamboat match and to do the stuff that he did in this match at his age was remarkable)
Hardy v Hardy - **** (Brutal match that I thought was brilliant, looking forward to there following matches)
HBK v Taker - ********** (Everyone knows how amazing this is)
Edge v Cena v Show - ***3/4 (Very fun triple threat with a memorable ending)

If the main event delivers this is one of the best Manias of all time. Just unfortunate that it doesn't seem to  )


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't expect HHH/Orton to deliever at all bud.

Have TLC '11 on watchlist, iirc a super fun PPV.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

TLC is really fun, your in for a good watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

It looks like their taking the streak DVD off netflix 

They better add something else


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The TLC main event is superb. Might be the best non-tag TLC match ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The TLC main event is superb. Might be the best non-tag TLC match ever.


It's not even the best TLC match involving Punk. The Ryback match earlier this year is easily better. And even if most here hate it, I easily prefer Edge vs Cena.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dubya Dubya Eee Tee Elle Cee Two Thousand & Eleven:

Ziggler/Ryder: ***3/4
Air Boom/Primo & Epico: **1/2
Orton/Barrett: **3/4
Beth/Kelly: 1/4*
HHH/Nash: **3/4
Sheamus/Swagger: ***
Henry/Show: *1/2
Cody/Booker: **
TLC Triple Threat: ****

Some lowers aside, this still indeed sticks as a super fun event.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Would struggle to go *** for that TLC match. And it's probably MOTN too. Me no likey teh tlc 2011 event.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Put over 100 wrestlers/teams in a randomizer and Shield tag matches came out! 

I think I'm gonna watch the EC match!


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

Orton v HHH from WM25 is horrible, what a lackluster match for the main event of Wrestlemania 25. ** at best for me. Crowd wasn't into it but I don't think its because they were tired from the previous great matches I just think it was a bad match. Everyone says it but it should have been No Holds Barred or something!


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I randomly decided to watch some evil Doink stuff.

Vs Mr Perfect (1993 KOTR Qualifier) - **1/4
Vs Crush (Wrestlemania IX) - *1/4

Saw a squash match as well. Not a great wrestler but I loved the evil clown character.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SD worth watch this week?


----------



## Kurt 'Olympic Gold (Jul 6, 2006)

Wow, at the new HHH documentary, Undertaker is also in it while talking about him. That's really awesome, since Taker doesn't do that very often due to his Deadman gimmick.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> SD worth watch this week?


The Gauntlet was a fun watch, though I only saw that.

Though I've read that Shield/Bryan & Usos was good too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I was browsing pro fight db and I came across a card from a show I have no recollection of. WWE vs ECW. Apparently, it took place on a Wednesday on USA. I really don't remember this happening at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I was browsing pro fight db and I came across a card from a show I have no recollection of. WWE vs ECW. Apparently, it took place on a Wednesday on USA. I really don't remember this happening at all.


That the one from 06?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Callamus said:


> That the one from 06?


Yep.

I should give the event a watch, see if anything jogs my memory. Although, it looks god awful on paper.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't recall it being "great" and all, but I do seem to remember an awesome FOLEY promo near the end of the show :mark:.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, I can only find one video on dailymotion of it. The intro rings a bell. Is that the night when Big Show took off a RAW T-shirt during a battle royal and had an ECW t-shirt on?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pretty sure its that show when it happens. I believe the main event is Deamer Vs Edge (build for ONS), and Dreamer nearly breaks Edge's neck .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Putting on WM V right now, Hogan/Savage should be good


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

The Enforcers vs Windham feud in late '91 on WCW TV is making me appreciate Steamboat/Dustin vs the Enforcers at the November '91 Clash even more. I got this tiny little feeling it'll hit the maximum rating on the rewatch in the next few days. Such an incredible match (the Clash bout). 

And another match to add to the Enforcers vs Windham feud is their tag with Simmons alongside Windham. Another great solid match-up with a bit more in the ante from Anderson/Windham. Zybsyko adds appriopriately and Simmons being the sacrificial limb for the Enforcers to enhance the feud that was going on around him was perfect. Feels like I have dipped into the perfect time to watch some weeklies.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I randomly decided to watch some evil Doink stuff.
> 
> Vs Mr Perfect (1993 KOTR Qualifier) - **1/4
> Vs Crush (Wrestlemania IX) - *1/4
> ...


Matt Borne was a great wrestler.



Callamus said:


> ***1/2 for Booker/HHH? Is that like, a normal rating guys? Just curious because I don't pay much attention these days nor do I venture much outside of this thread... but ***1/2? Is he crazy or am I? Because I would struggle to go a single * for it .
> 
> ***3/4 for Cena/Orton? Ok, that's more "normal" but I still think EVERYONE is crazy. Bad match . I HATE CENA VS ORTON THAT ISN'T NWO 08.
> 
> SS 07 is terrible. Pile of sticky wank cream.


Show is the pits. All you have is Finlay vs Kane and that's it. Divas battle royal - World Championship are all DUDs. Nice event.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Arn Anderson vs. Bobby Eaton on tap for today. Let's see if Eaton is as good as Paramore fan says.


He absolutely is.



Callamus said:


> *Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle*
> 
> 6 days after Backlash, and poor Benoit still has a killer black eye that's STILL swelled up.
> 
> :lmao another Angle = Cody reference! "I'VE BEEN IN ENGLAND ALL WEEK LONG, AND I COULDN'T HELP BUT NOTCIE ONE THING. YOUR CHILDREN" :lmao you sick fuck Angle. You too Cody. ​


:lmao :usangle


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Dark Church said:


> I randomly decided to watch some evil Doink stuff.
> 
> Vs Mr Perfect (1993 KOTR Qualifier) - **1/4
> Vs Crush (Wrestlemania IX) - *1/4
> ...


A star too low on that Perfect match imo. Also love the angle from the Crush match with the two doinks. What a fucking GREAT character. Make sure and check out his 2/3 Falls match with Marty Jannetty from Raw '93 too. Total gem


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is it time for me to cream, gush, & swoon over EVIL HEEL DOINK again? b/c I love when this is the topic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

never heard of him

Been fighting a cold, so I was on netlfix majortiy of the day and watched For all mankind and Orton:EOP,pretty good doc both of them, wit hfoely being pretty long and orton short, but you'd exepct it as, one's carrer was much longer, I use to love Randy Orton, use to do the pose in the mirror EVERDAY


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You've never heard of DOINK THE CLOWN!?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

aka the greatest character in the history of pro wrestling. 

only with The Undertaker, Jushin Liger, Great Muta, & El Generico chomping at his heels with competition.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No :lol come across the name a couple of times


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You should probably leave the thread for a while, skins...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Later Marks :ziggler3


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> aka the greatest character in the history of pro wrestling.
> 
> only with The Undertaker, Jushin Liger, Great Muta, & El Generico chomping at his heels with competition.


Remember the name...Goldust!

Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Eaton is pretty freakin' great.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I need to watch the Rock set and taker set on netflix after Mania V( ME is on now), gonna watch Rockys set first


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I loved eaton/pillman vs. flair/arn


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Later Marks :ziggler3





redskins25 said:


> I loved eaton/pillman vs. flair/arn


Redeemed.

WATCH DOINK.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Remember the name...Goldust!
> 
> Dustin Rhodes vs. Bobby Eaton is pretty freakin' great.


There was also no Foley plug by myself either :side:

YES.



smitty915 said:


> I need to watch the Rock set and taker set on netflix after Mania V( ME is on now), gonna watch Rockys set first


I watched a few matches one night, but need to finish it too. Not sure what matches made it but I think the match from Backlash 2000 did. Haven't seen that since the night it happened. Remember it being fantastic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rude/Warrior WM V: *** 1/4
Hogan/Savage WM V: ****

Complete two match show, although their was a rockers tag match that was okay


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hogan/Savage ranks up there with Eddie/Batista as one of the biggest carryjobs ever. Not even Hogan's downright terrible babyface work could ruin Savage (except for that poor ending). ****3/4*

Jerry Blackwell vs. Jerry Lawler is really good. Blackwell is one of Yeah1993's fatty favorites that I never checked out before. Dude is legit. Next up is some ERNIE LADD. Dude was the size of a basketball player, but bumped like a Ziggler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love WM V. Best nostalgia trip I can take. Dig the tag matches on the show, minus the handicap. Which sucks, but meh. I have fun when I watch and go, ha, "these guys were cool."

Rockers vs Twin Towers is honestly my favorite match on the show. Hogan vs Savage is good stuff. Finish is fine b/c that's how most Hogan matches ended back then. He does his comeback, wins, & fans go bonkers. It may not do favors for the heel in the match, but that was business back then. I'm a Hogan supporter though and Savage didn't lose any cred following that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting Rock set, early RAW match against HHH that seems to be a good choice to start. Actually doing a full review( by discs) but most likely wont finish disc 1 as I dont know if I wanna watch this until 2 AM


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hope that RAW match was better than their effort from Final Four. Which was such a bad match. Speaking of, you know what match is total shit? Eddie vs Malenko from ECW in April of '95. Felt like a modern day ROH match with Michael Elgin or someone ultra crappy. No lie.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Opening match was fun. Rock/Owen Hart up next.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched that perfect/doink KOTR qualifier match , disagree with that poster said, pretty good match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Doink vs Perfect. On paper it delivers.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

perfect/doink KotR qualifier happened 3 diff times. 2 draws i think then the final match. all 3 were great but i haven't watched since i was 13.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Gustafsson/Jones: *****3/4*

Fight of the year with ease. Gustafsson made himself into a star tonight and in the process made himself into the top babyface of the LHW division and among the most over guys in UFC. Jones solidifies himself as the top heel with that controversial decision.

EDIT: And Big Dave Meltzer makes a fool out of himself by scoring the fight 49-46 in favor of Jones. :meltzer


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Gustafsson/Jones: *****3/4*
> 
> Fight of the year with ease. Gustafsson made himself into a star tonight and in the process made himself into the top babyface of the LHW division and among the most over guys in UFC. Jones solidifies himself as the top heel with that controversial decision.


(Y)

MOTY


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WM 5 talk?

Fuck that, y'all should watch Survivor Series from the same year. King's Court/4x4's > the entire WM 5, RR 89 and SSlam 89 cards combined (bar Savage/Hogan).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Holy crap I adored when the survivor series teams had names.

THE VISIONARIES vs THE VIPERS


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> A star too low on that Perfect match imo. Also love the angle from the Crush match with the two doinks. What a fucking GREAT character. Make sure and check out his 2/3 Falls match with Marty Jannetty from Raw '93 too. Total gem


I will check that out soon. The character is something that was so good it would still work today. It didn't feel like an early 90's gimmick. Shame that anyone who started watching in the last ten years just knows Doink as a face that randomly showed up to be beaten up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder if teams nowadays had names...

The Faces Of Foley vs. The Show-Offs
The Funkrassic Park vs. Chīmu Shibō (Team Fat)
The Vipers vs. The Methods Of Barrage
The Vipers vs. The Sloppy Black & Co.

...

EDIT: Found myself a great gem:






:clap


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> I love WM V. Best nostalgia trip I can take. Dig the tag matches on the show, minus the handicap. Which sucks, but meh. I have fun when I watch and go, ha, "these guys were cool."
> 
> Rockers vs Twin Towers is honestly my favorite match on the show. Hogan vs Savage is good stuff. Finish is fine b/c that's how most Hogan matches ended back then. He does his comeback, wins, & fans go bonkers. It may not do favors for the heel in the match, but that was business back then. I'm a Hogan supporter though and Savage didn't lose any cred following that.


 Agreed. Although nothing makes me quite as nostalgiac as WrestleMania VIII.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all look at this:






How many do you disagree? :evil:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't recall Punker vs Kane being special. A bit sloppy, but fandom permits me to enjoy it despite the flaws. Their match on ECW in 2008 the same night Punk won a four way prior in the hour >>> iirc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember quite liking Kane Vs Punk. Unless there was a match between Punk and Umaga on the VERY NEXT PPV and I'm confusing it with that (Punk Vs BIG GUY... my memory sucks go fuck yourself ). So if Punk Vs Umaga wasn't a thing on the next show then fuck knows. I probably did like Punk/Kane anyway :lmao.

IT'S TIME. IT'S TIME. IT'S... BACKLASH 2000 TIME TIME TIME....

Think it'll be like, my 4th review of the show .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To hell with the sloppiness, the armwork alone in Punk/Kane was badass.

Cody, what if I told you Angle/Shawn WM is considered by many a Top 10 match ever? :evil:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There was a Punk vs Umaga match on the very next TWO PPVs :lmao

but the Judgment Day one is the one that's holy shit level fabulous.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> There was a Punk vs Umaga match on the very next TWO PPVs :lmao
> 
> but the Judgment Day one is the one that's holy shit level fabulous.


Yey my memory isn't as terrible as I thought .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> To hell with the sloppiness, the armwork alone in Punk/Kane was badass.
> 
> Cody, what if I told you Angle/Shawn WM is considered by many a Top 10 match ever? :evil:


Means nothing to me. Some think Hart vs Michaels Ironman is a "classic" & some think Davey vs Elgin from Showdown in the Sun is five star worthy. Idiocy is all over the world.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I remembered not to long ago some poster, not us regulars , came up here jizzing about the punk/Kane from sd last year


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Kane from Smackdown last year is the most underrated match of 2012.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk and Kane have had a handful of good matches over the years. Nothing particularly great but nothing I'd opt to skip if I was watching the full shows with them on.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Which No Way Out has the better chamber matches, 08 or 09? And how is Eimination Chamber 2010?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Kane from Smackdown last year is the most underrated match of 2012.


Rollins/Mahal from NXT disagrees.



Cactus Jack said:


> Which No Way Out has the better chamber matches, 08 or 09? And how is Eimination Chamber 2010?


09 is better overall, but 08 has the best one of both (Raw Chamber 08). 

EC 10, Raw Chamber is ok, McIntyre/Kane and (surprisingly) Miz/MVP are goodies, SD Chamber fucking rules.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> To hell with the sloppiness, the armwork alone in Punk/Kane was badass.
> 
> Cody, what if I told you Angle/Shawn WM is considered by many a Top 10 match ever? :evil:


It's most certainly not a top 10 match ever, but I will say its probably top 50 in WWE. And if you give any fucks, it's Bobby Heenans favorite match ever, and I will always always always love Bobby.

It's all personal preference, I'm not gonna call someone an idiot for thinking its brilliant. I certainly enjoyed it, mostly because I had absolutely no idea who would win going into it, it really could have gone either way. That always adds something, at least for me.


Edit- thanks Andrew, I got the whole Satan's Prison EC set for $4.99 and I'm trying to decide which ones to watch that I don't remember. I've seen 2002 and 2005 enough that I have them memorized almost.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have it at ****1/2 personally, I do love it, but not only do I think Vengeance was better (same rating but higher out of a ranking view), but I do find it overrated, since it's considered the GOAT match by lots.

And btw, I do give a fuck about Bobby The GOAT Manager.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not to sound like a dick ATF, but I'm not sure how many of us actually care about those shitty Youtube lists. haha. I mean, I don't know those guys whatsoever so I'm not gonna take anything they list seriously. Ya feel me?



Cactus Jack said:


> Which No Way Out has the better chamber matches, 08 or 09? And how is Eimination Chamber 2010?


'08 gets my vote. I have them at *** 1/2 for the opener and **** for the main event. I believe I gave both '09 Chambers *** 1/2 but people tend to like the main event on that one more than myself. Can't go wrong with any of the four, honestly. Both Chamber matches on 2010 are solid (*** 1/4 range for both maybe?) but completely forgettable tbh. I really don't even remember who was in either one of them, I just remember Sheamus coming in with the Title and losing it. 

EDIT: Just looked up my old Satan's Prison review and I had the main event from 2010 at *** 1/2+ because the crowd was dead for some reason, but an otherwise enjoyable match. Punk was the star of the first half and we got a Taker/Jericho portion that was fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I only care for the hilarity of them tbh  There was a guy that had Punk/Jericho PB > Punk/Lesnar :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> I only care for the hilarity of them tbh  There was a guy that had Punk/Jericho PB > Punk/Lesnar :lmao


And that is exactly why I don't go out of this thread.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> '08 gets my vote I have them at *** 1/2 for the opener and **** for the main event. I believe I gave both '09 Chambers *** 1/2 but people tend to like the main event on that one more than myself. Can't go wrong with any of the four, honestly. Both Chamber matches on 2010 are solid (*** 1/4 range for both maybe?) but completely forgettable tbh. I really don't even remember who was in either one of them, I just remember Sheamus coming in with the Title and losing it.
> 
> EDIT: Just looked up my old Satan's Prison review and I had the main event from 2010 at *** 1/2+ because the crowd was dead for some reaosn, but an otherwise enjoyable. Punk was the star of the first half and we got a Taker/Jericho portion that was fun.


Thanks man, much appreciated. When you reccomend end NWO 08-09 to buy when I was trying to decide what to order, I just decided to get Satans Prison instead so I could have all the Chamber matches from 02-10. I got the Kane set too, it's beastly. Only made it though the first disc so far and decided to switch to some Chamber matches. Can't wait to read your review of it, I had forgotten how good his first match in the WWE was against Mankind at Survivor Series. Foley takes a few MICK FOLEY bumps, you know the kind, the ones that no other human being in their right mind would even think about taking. He does a great job making Kane seem like an unstoppable monster while also making himself look indestructible.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Could be worse. Some say Angle/Benoit is the GOAT feud. Some are begging (on YT) for the return of Bobby Lashley. Some say Bret/Shawn is "an incontestable ***** match that if you don't like, you're not a wrestling fan".

See what I mean?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One of the many reasons I can't stand youtube. I rarely go there, even if I'm looking for certain matches. I'll try and download either the full show first or go to Dailymotion. I also refuse to post my videos on YT too.

3 matches into Backlash 2000 :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm starting to think ATF favorite wrestler of all time is secretly Kurt Angle :lol

Before bed, I watched bret/perfect KOTR and dug it this time ****1/4, good mixture of brawling/mat wrestling


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dammit, you got me skins. Christ, I dream he fucks my gf in front of me and empregnates her and all :side:

I know when I should (or not) give the man credit, he's at least 35% hit :genius


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I'm starting to think ATF favorite wrestler of all time is secretly Kurt Angle :lol
> 
> Before bed, I watched bret/perfect KOTR and dug it this time ****1/4, good mixture of brawling/mat wrestling


See? That's what I mean, everyone's opinion is different. Bret vs Perfect KotR to me is a perfect, flawless, ***** match. It's my favorite match between the two, and my second favorite Bret Hart match ever behind only WM 13 vs Stone Cold. I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with that, but I honestly can't think of one thing I'd change in that match. The promo they did before it was great ("My dad beat your dad" :lmao) the match itself was wrestling perfection, and the hand shake at the end was beautiful.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Thanks man, much appreciated. When you reccomend end NWO 08-09 to buy when I was trying to decide what to order, I just decided to get Satans Prison instead so I could have all the Chamber matches from 02-10. I got the Kane set too, it's beastly. Only made it though the first disc so far and decided to switch to some Chamber matches. Can't wait to read your review of it, I had forgotten how good his first match in the WWE was against Mankind at Survivor Series. Foley takes a few MICK FOLEY bumps, you know the kind, the ones that no other human being in their right mind would even think about taking. He does a great job making Kane seem like an unstoppable monster while also making himself look indestructible.


Good call with the Satan's Prison order, I think the only two matches from NWO you're missing out on are Cena/Orton from '08 and Orton/Shane '09, which isn't too big a deal. Unfortunately Rey/Edge from '08 was all about a leg injury so it sucked. Those two have had better matches inside of a Chamber than actual singles matches on ppv. 

You'll probably finish the Kane set before I do if you continue to watch. I need to finish rewatching Elimination Chamber from this year, watch the Orton/RVD match C2D keeps pimping to me, then I'll get to the Kane set. Buuuuut, I'm leaving Tuesday to go out of town to visit my girlfriend and I've gotta work open to close tomorrow, so it may be a while before I get to it. 

KANE :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Dammit, you got me skins. Christ, I dream he fucks my gf in front of me and empregnates her and all :side:
> 
> I know when I should (or not) give the man credit, he's at least 35% hit :genius


:lol its funny because you say you HATE him all the time and we hear you, but you bring his name up more than any of us. Usually when ppl talk about something alot they like it alit. Case in point Randy Orton for me, I get on him alot but I use to LOVE Randy Orton. 

Just ribbing man


Yea perfect/bret pretty good, it took like 5 watch to enjoy it, but its good. Mr.Perfect 1993 was on fire


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> See? That's what I mean, everyone's opinion is different. Bret vs Perfect KotR to me is a perfect, flawless, ***** match. It's my favorite match between the two, and my second favorite Bret Hart match ever behind only WM 13 vs Stone Cold. I'm sure a lot of people don't agree with that, but I honestly can't think of one thing I'd change in that match. The promo they did before it was great ("My dad beat your dad" :lmao) the match itself was wrestling perfection, and the hand shake at the end was beautiful.


I think its great to watch the SS and KOTR matches back to back, esp with Perfect pre and post back injury (although that did resurface a few months after KOTR)

Love both matches to death, and im sure the KOTR match didn't even make WWE's Best Of KOTR DVD lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus I believe I asked before but you never answered me. Do you have the Dungeon Collection set? If not you really need to hop on that. Amazing stuff, there's another match with Perfect from '89 that's great and an awesome, awesome match with early Undertaker from '92. Plus a couple really good Hart Foundation tags against The Islanders & The Twin Towers. BLU RAY should get a purchase considering the extra matches with Hakushi & Yoko.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> :lol its funny because you say you HATE him all the time and we hear you, but you bring his name up more than any of us. Usually when you talk about something alot you like it alit. Case in point Randy Orton for me, I get on him alot but I use to LOVE Randy Orton.
> 
> Just ribbing man


Yeah, that's actually a family trait of mine. Whenever I don't like something I bring it up a lot  But tbh I don't hate Angle, I don't even dislike him, I do (kinda) like him and a hell of a lot more than many people out there, I hate this idea of his wrestling style being the best (which is not). _See what I did here?_

Bret/Perfect talk. Niiiice. Wonder if there are people that have KOTR > SSlam.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think its about which style of wrestling you prefer

If you like more of a mat-wrestling match, ss 91 you'll like more although KOTR had a good amount. If you like more of a brawler type much like myself you'll prefer KOTR

You can tell Henning was really hurt in the summerslam match, looking back now


Edit: @ATF I knew it !


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cactus I believe I asked before but you never answered me. Do you have the Dungeon Collection set? If not you really need to hop on that. Amazing stuff, there's another match with Perfect from '89 that's great and an awesome, awesome match with early Undertaker from '92. Plus a couple really good Hart Foundation tags against The Islanders & The Twin Towers. BLU RAY should get a purchase considering the extra matches with Hakushi & Yoko.


Yes sir I do indeed own it, well sort of. It's on the Amazon Instant I have on my TV and I can watch any match I want off it for .99 cents. I think I've checked out 5-6 of them so far, including a hidden gem that is one of my new favorite Bret Hart matches, Bret vs Dynamite Kid from 1985 Capitol Centre Wrestling. Such a bad ass match. Wasn't impressed by his match with Tiger Mask in 1990, they really worked a SLOW pace. Wasn't horrible or anything but not something I'd write home about either. Lots and lots of rest holds. I need to check out those tags you listed, they sound hot. I've seen the Perfect in 89' and Taker 92' matches, love them.

Zep81- I think every times watch SS91' Bret vs Perfect, I end up watching KotR immediately afterwards. It just seems to fit. I have SummerSlam at ****1/2 and KotR *****. Obviously I think the world of both of them, those two in the ring were just :mark:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GIRLFRIEND BUYING ME A HMV GIFT CARD SO THAT I CAN BUY THY KINGDOM COME ON THURSDAY :mark: :mark:

I have class from 9-10:15 though so I probably won't have the DVD finished until the night time .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Yes sir I do indeed own it, well sort of. It's on the Amazon Instant I have on my TV and I can watch any match I want off it for .99 cents. I think I've checked out 5-6 of them so far, including a hidden gem that is one of my new favorite Bret Hart matches, Bret vs Dynamite Kid from 1985 Capitol Centre Wrestling. Such a bad ass match. Wasn't impressed by his match with Tiger Mask in 1990, they really worked a SLOW pace. Wasn't horrible or anything but not something I'd write home about either. Lots and lots of rest holds. I need to check out those tags you listed, they sound hot. I've seen the Perfect in 89' and Taker 92' matches, love them.
> 
> Zep81- I think every times watch SS91' Bret vs Perfect, I end up watching KotR immediately afterwards. It just seems to fit. I have SummerSlam at ****1/2 and KotR *****. Obviously I think the world of both of them, those two in the ring were just :mark:


Yeah, completely forgot about Bret/Dynamite. Really fun match that was before its time and indeed the Tiger Mask encounter isn't very good at all. Quite boring.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok folks, little game here. Best match ever from:

Raw
Smackdown
Nitro
Starrcade
WM
Bash At The Beach
SummerSlam
TGAB
Fall Brawl
Spring Stampede
Royal Rumble
Survivor Series


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***** for both Bret/Perfect PPV matches. SS > KOTR for me though. God I love their SS match. Incredible to watch knowing that Perfect's back is FUCKED because he doesn't hold a damn thing back. Bumps better with a bad back than most people do 100% healthy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Raw - Bret Hart Vs The 123 Kid (RAW 1994)
Smackdown - Steve Austin Vs Chris Benoit (2001)
Nitro - Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair (20/05/1996)
Starrcade - Vader Vs Ric Flair (27/12/1993)
WM - Bret Hart Vs Owen Hart (1994)
Bash At The Beach - Mortis & Wrath Vs Glacier & The Cat (1997)
SummerSlam - Brock Lesnar Vs CM Punk (2013)
TGAB - Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk (1989)
Fall Brawl - Goldberg Vs Scott Steiner (2000)
Spring Stampede - Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck (1994)
Royal Rumble - 1992 Royal Rumble Match
Survivor Series - Steve Austin Vs Bret Hart (1996)

YEAH.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did Patriots fan just forget about Mysterio/Psychosis from BATB?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

About to head to Walmart, MIGHT pick up something, need to save money for TKC though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Raw- Impossible to say. Maybe Cena vs Punk Feb. 2013, or Perfect vs Flair Loser Leaves Raw. Also a big fan of Marty Janetty vs HBK IC 1993 and Eddie vs RVD IC Ladder Match 2001
Smackdown- Eddie vs Rey 6/23 with Benoit vs Austin coming in close second. Again almost impossible to say.
Nitro- Benoit vs Guerrero 10-16-1995
Starrcade Flair vs Vader 1993 or Tully vs Magnum I Quit
WM- Bret vs Austin WM13 Submission Match
Bash At The Beach- Rey vs Psicosis
SummerSlam- Bret vs Perfect 1991, Punk vs Lesnar 2013, Austin vs Angle 2001, Angle vs Mysterio 2002
TGAB- Benoit vs Sullivan 1996 probably
Fall Brawl- Jericho vs Eddie
Spring Stampede- I'm cheating, 10 Man Tag from the CANADIEN Stampede 
Royal Rumble-Cactus Jack vs Triple H Street Fight with Benoit vs Jericho Ladder Match 2001 coming in close second
Survivor Series- Elimination Chamber match from 2002 or Team Bischoff vs Team Austin 2003


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Which No Way Out has the better chamber matches, 08 or 09? And how is Eimination Chamber 2010?


The Raw chamber match in 2009 and Smackdown chamber match in 2010 were so fucking awesome, mainly because Rey Mysterio. Of course 2010 also had Taker and Jericho. And Punk. But REY.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did Patriots fan just forget about Mysterio/Psychosis from BATB?


I think he did Mark Henry fan, dude whats my nickname ?

I'm not one for "best match @ ppv" I'll give it a try

raw- bret/kidd / flair/perfect
sd- eddie/rey 6/05
starrcade vader/flair
wm- hbk/taker wm 25
batb- rey/psychoisis
ss- punk/lesnar
rumble- hhh/foley
svs- hbk/bret 97
Spring Stampede- flair/steamboat


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Couldn't find anything in Walmart, I don't feel like digging through the 5 dollar bin


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I think he did Mark Henry fan, dude whats my nickname ?
> 
> I'm not one for "best match @ ppv" I'll get it a try
> 
> ...


I think it's Greg.

Hooray for Punk/Lesnar moving up in that SS rank.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I legit couldn't decide between Bret/Perfect and Punk/Lesnar as my favorite SS match. Both are positively flawless masterpieces, but in completely different ways. After that Austin/Angle and Angle/Rey are my favorites. I have all 4 at ****1/2.

HunterHearstHelmsley- Thanks dude ill check it out, love me some REY.

Cal- I go through every page of convo I miss hoping to catch one of your reviews. I absolutely love them. Please keep em coming


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think it's Greg.
> 
> Hooray for Punk/Lesnar moving up in that SS rank.


DAT fourth wall unk

I have to watch cena/bryan again, but its honestly between those two, and the decision was pretty easy, with only scsa/angle anywhere close. Bret/davey is one of it not the most boring "classic" match out there, honesty can never sit through it. Punk/lesnar is in the "five star" territory IMO


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Lesnar from 03 then Bret/Perfect 91 then Angle/Austin 01 then Lesnar/Punk '13 and then... hmmm... maybe Lesnar/HHH '12 for my top 5 SS matches. Might be forgetting something. Either way ANGLE AND LESNAR kinda rule at SS lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only one who thinks that, even though it still is fucking epic, Punk/Lesnar is good enough in one watch only?

Because even though I think it's the lesser of the two, Cena/Bryan I had so much, much more fun with on the rewatches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only seen SS '13 once so fuck knows lol. Didn't enjoy Cena/Bryan THAT MUCH the first time around. Punk/Lesnar was on a whole other level. Me actually forking out the money to watch it live helped too . As much as I like saving money and downloading the PPV's the day after and shit, there is nothing like watching a GOOD PPV live on TV. Probably even better in person but I'll never be able to afford that . Just house shows and TV tapings every couple of years for me lol!

Watching one of my all time favourite tag matches :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Am I the only one who thinks that, even though it still is fucking epic, Punk/Lesnar is good enough in one watch only?


Well, i have watched it three time already  and am planning on probably watching it again tonight, just in the mood  

Its as epic on every watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm the opposite, on the rewatch I had so much fun on Punk/Lesnar but was bored with Cena /Bryan


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/bryan is tremendous in everway as well, honestly wouldn't give it anything under ****1/2, just the perfect main event in this day and age, loved the match, and they both have room to improve on it which is extremely scary.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think Punk/Lesnar is so good I could watch it 100 times and it would still be just as good. I've seen respectable people in here rate it at *****, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them. It's one of the greatest matches in WWE history, from my point of view. It's on the same level as Cena/Punk MitB.

Bryan/Cena is amazing as well, and holds up well each time I've rewatched it. I would say that what keeps me from rating it as high as Punk/Lesnar is that I KNOW they can do better. I really don't get that feeling with Best vs Beast. I hope Bryan gets another crack at Cena with Cena 100% healthy. Still though, I rate the finish to Cena/Bryan as one of the most shocking moments in WWE history. Not just that Bryan won, but DANIEL BRYAN beat JOHN CENA, clean, 1-2-3 right in the middle of the ring, WITH A RUNNING FUCKING KNEE, at the second biggest PPV WWE has, for the WWE title. I mean, damn. If I told you in 2010 that this would happen, you would never believe me. I guarantee it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And to think SSlam had those two beasts + another **** classic in ADR/Christian. And Cody/Sandow which was very fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Might buy SS '13 on Bluray in about 5 years when it goes down in price .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Punk/Lesnar was awesome, **** 3/4 easily. But better than Punk/Cena MITB? No way. Its not both man's best match, but its a # 2 for both men. I think Lesnar/Cena and Punk/Cena are better as I have them both at *****. It's still MOTY though!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT CENA carrying fools :cena3

Holy crap, lady Starbuck is viewing this thread. Gotta hear her choices on best SS matches. Hopefully she came to her senses and put unk5 :brock over :brock :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No funnyfaces1, I didn't forget Undertaker/Edge HIAC SS match for the best SS matches . I don't think THAT highly of it . *response to random rep btw lol*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I can't separate Cena/Bryan and Punk/Lesnar. Love them both equally and I've watched them twice each. I'm hoping both of them are on the Best of 13 PPV set but if not then I'll gladly pick up Summerslam to make sure I own them both. ADR/Christian was really good too although I've only seen that the once. 

Cena/Lesnar > Punk/Lesnar = Cena/Bryan > Punk/Cena imo. 

SO UNBELIEVABLY STOKED for Thy Kingdom Come on Tuesday. At least I hope somebody puts it up on xwt so I can have it ready by Tuesday night or I'll have an anxiety attack. I listened to a guy on YouTube's review and he goes and calls it the best release ever which shocked me. That's putting a lot of expectation on it but he thinks it's the GOAT which only makes me even more excited. The guy also gives a quote from Vince which is pretty interesting, 'He's one of the best things that has ever happened to me.' High praise from Vinnie Mac. :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:

:lol funnyfaces. I'll bat for Trips/Lesnar for the rest of my days. I love the story told in that thing but I realize it isn't everyone's cup of tea. I'd put Punk/Lesnar just above it but they're both ****1/2 for me. 

:jpl


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ah, dammit Cal. I was trying to think of a Taker SS match that you forgot. Hmm, how about Undertaker/Undertaker?

Where is that review?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Undertaker vs. JBL where the fans are busy doing everything else but watching the match? Those crazy Canucks, eh...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker Vs Undertaker was a borderline classic, so doesn't quite make the top 5 SS matches :side:.

Edit: FUCK those Canadian twats from 04. Undertaker/JBL was awesome and they were more concerned with doing a fucking Mexican Wave.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lol Those fans were seriously wacky the whole night. Crapping on Eugene and popping huge for Orton beating CHRIS BENOIT. IN CANADA. Craziness.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

We LOVE Hogan up here.

I don't know what it is about Canada but it seems as if Hogan is #2 up here in terms of overall popularity behind BRET DA GAWD.

Thy Kingdom Come will be GOAT, simple as that. I anticipate CAL & company shitting all over the release, but when the documentary delivers I'm thinking it's going to be up there with the Punk/Bret/Flair/Mysterio DVDs as the GOAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm looking forward to the documentary for HHH. I'm a sucker for documentaries, even if they try and make things look better than they actually are (oh hai Rise & Fall of ECW) .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That same SS crowd booed face Edge in his own hometown in favor of Batista :lol

JBL and Undertaker always have kickass matches. They especially had some really good ones on Smackdown.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think SSlam 2004 is exactly the reason why Toronto and Canada in general will never get one of the Big 4 again :lol


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It will be GOAT for me and that's a 100% biased answer and I don't give a crap. Been waiting for this for years now so I'm going to enjoy it no matter what. The guy who reviewed shared one of the blu ray extras where Trips shoved a protein bar down his trunks during a house show match with Jericho and then shook it out so it fell on to Jericho who then freaked because he thought he'd literally just been shit on to which HHH and Big Show lol'd. The stories on it should be amazing...I hope.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crowd were fine the rest of the show, just fucking hate how they acted during the WWE Title match. Reminded me of those cunty ECW fans who would just entertain themselves during a match instead of paying attention to the match.

Also, didn't a fan nearly ruin the end to Undertaker/JBL by jumping on top of the limo and nearly falling through the roof? :lmao

Edge deserved to get booed .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I believe I have that whole PPV on DVD, besides Orton's win and JBL getting fucked up by 'Taker...I remember they had that Diva Search dodgeball match...hoo boy that was...something.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thy Kingdom Come is the beginning of a movement in the WWE; the acknowledgement of HHH as a greatest of all time candidate.

It was bound to happen, now it's happening and I'm not complaining.

Talk your shit about HHH all you want but let's have a look at his matches since he went part time;

Vs Brock (Extreme Rules 13) ~ ***** 1/4*
Vs Brock (Wrestlemania XXIX) ~ ******
Vs Brock (Summerslam 12) ~ ***** 1/2*
Vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVIII) **** 1/2*
Vs Kevin Nash (TLC 11) *** 3/4*
W/Punk Vs Awesome Truth (Vengeance 2011) ****
Vs CM Punk (NOC 2011) **** 1/4*
Vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII) ******

BROCK is still a God but HHH is something else.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vs Brock (Extreme Rules 13) ~ **
Vs Brock (Wrestlemania XXIX) ~ **3/4
Vs Brock (Summerslam 12) ~ ****1/4
Vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVIII) ****3/4
Vs Kevin Nash (TLC 11) *
W/Punk Vs Awesome Truth (Vengeance 2011) *
Vs CM Punk (NOC 2011) **
Vs Undertaker (Wrestlemania XXVII) ****3/4

I think we should just talk about LESNAR AND THE UNDERTAKER instead .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Never mind acknowledging him as a GOAT candidate, it apparently outright states that he will be the next Vince McMahon and is confirmed by the McMahon family. That's big since it's all been speculation up until now. So yeah, if he wants to call himself the GOAT he can and it will all be under the guise of being best for business :HHH2.

Lesnar is interviewed as part of the set which I found interesting since it's Lesnar and he hates people. I wonder what he had to say because they don't exactly strike me as friends. Who knows, maybe they bonded over their trilogy or whatever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Much better than his 2009/2010 campaign in which he rarely delivered and seemingly was on cruise control the entire fucking time.

That run was really frustrating to watch as an HHH fan. I can only compare it to Orton's 2012 and how his fans must have felt.

HHH being GOAT is actually what's best for business as he's going to be involved with the company until he fucking DIES.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The DX/Legacy stuff in 09 was real good imo. I'll have to go back through that some time. I also adore the DX/Cena triple threat at Survivor Series. I think I'd go as far as to say that's one of my favourite matches ever. Outside those though it was mostly a whole lot of Orton and not a lot else. They had a great LMS on Raw actually but that's about it. 2010 I can't remember a thing outside the Seamus matches. So yeah I'd agree, definitely not one of his better runs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

King of Kings said:


> I can only compare it to Orton's 2012 and how his fans must have felt.


That was fucking torture!



funnyfaces1 said:


> That same SS crowd booed face Edge in his own hometown in favor of Batista :lol


Pretty sure they were cheering Y2J over stale ass nice guy Edge.

I love that crowd for the main event, though. They are quiet but it's like the Japanese crowds rather than an outright dead crowd. They had such respect for both Benoit and Orton (the way it should be ) that they didn't cheer one over the other, they just applauded every move both guys did including the finish. Some tried a "You screwed Bret" chant early on but after that they went silent and decided to observe the awesome action until the ultimate moment...


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Was HHH/Orton bash 2009 3SOH any good? sounds terrible but if it's any good....

as far as HHH vs Taker goes, WM 17> WM 28 > WM 27 

27 isn't too great IMO *** is about as high as I would go, WM 17 is a **** 1/4 gem and WM 28 is **** and is awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Thy Kingdom Come is the beginning of a movement in the WWE; the acknowledgement of HHH as a greatest of all time candidate.
> 
> It was bound to happen, now it's happening and I'm not complaining.
> 
> ...


Oh boy. I respect your opinions my dude but don't throw those ratings out like they are undisputed facts. For me, no on has coasted and not delivered more times than Triple H. He has the worst title reign EVER in 2003, and aside from him in 2000 (when he was undisputedly GREAT) he hasn't had one single year where I would consider him the best or even second best. He was hit or miss pretty much every match, never once post 2003 did he knock it out of the park for months at a time. Plus, Triple H arguably had the benefit of the best booking of any wrestler in WWE ever. Only Cena and Hogan are comparable. 

I don't like his ER Cage match with Brock, his WM match with Brock was pretty good, and his SummerSlam match with Brock was really good. Hell in a Cell vs Taker was ok, not great, and WM27 is trash. WM17>>>>WM27&28. His matches with Nash and Punk are trash too.

These are all just my opinion. I Pre-ordered TKC so it's not like I'm a Haitch Hater, I just will never ever consider him a candidate for the GOAT, or even top 30 of all time, to be honest. His heel runs were insufferable (not in a good way either, in the bad "I don't give a shit" way). 2000 is the only year I absolutely love from him. He never figured out how to work as a face either, which hurts him a lot historically because the GOATs should be able to work both face and heel effectively.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> The DX/Legacy stuff in 09 was real good imo. I'll have to go back through that some time. I also adore the DX/Cena triple threat at Survivor Series. I think I'd go as far as to say that's one of my favourite matches ever. Outside those though it was mostly a whole lot of Orton and not a lot else. They had a great LMS on Raw actually but that's about it. 2010 I can't remember a thing outside the Seamus matches. So yeah I'd agree, definitely not one of his better runs.


He has a LMS match with The Big Show in early 2009 that is honestly one of the best matches from either guy that I have ever seen. Not a single weapon is used yet it manages to stay effective the entire time en route to both being involved in a title match at Mania XXV. Legacy stuff was great as was the Cena matches, but my frustration comes more with his matches against Orton in conjunction with his involvement in this Hornswoggle/DX nonsense.

From Survivor Series 2009 - Extreme Rules 2010 it was insanely obvious that Hunter didn't care. HBK was leaving and HHH was staying out of the spotlight, cool to me. 

I still can't stand that he didn't put over Punk though, he can beat Bryan all he wants but that win over Punk was disgusting.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cactus, shut up or you're getting banned...err.....buried....

:HHH


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Was HHH/Orton bash 2009 3SOH any good? sounds terrible but if it's any good....


Watch it for comical reasons and you wont hate it.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I still can't stand that he didn't put over Punk though, he can beat Bryan all he wants but *that win over Punk was disgusting*.


NO! It was BEST FOR BUSINESS! :HHH2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck, it's best for business.

This thread deserves A++ posters.

3SOH is disgusting. Awful, awful, awful match much like the Wrestlemania XXV encounter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well Backlash 2000 is already the best PPV of 2000 on the CAL SCALE by 1 point, and still got the main event to go :mark:. Can Fully Loaded beat it though? 2 of the 3 main events on that are gonna really push up the points so if the undercard delivers too it might very well edge out BL.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Does Backlash 2000 have Malenko/Scotty on it? Awesome match that tends to fly under the radar. Anybody remember the whole storyline they did with Malenko and Lita in 2000? :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Starbuck, it's best for business.
> 
> This thread deserves A++ posters.
> 
> 3SOH is disgusting. Awful, awful, awful match much like the Wrestlemania XXV encounter.


Are you talking about the Austin vs Trips 3SoH from NWO or the Trips vs Michaels one? If you're talking about the one vs Austin, that's funny because its one of my guilty pleasures, one of my 10 favorite Trips matches 

The one vs Michaels can fuck off. Utter garbage. I've seen women's matches that are better. 

If you are talking about the one vs Orton, well that one can follow the HBK one and fuck right off too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Starbuck, it's best for business.
> 
> This thread deserves A++ posters.
> 
> 3SOH is disgusting. Awful, awful, awful match much like the Wrestlemania XXV encounter.


Have you seen their No DQ match from UK a couple of weeks after WM25? It's a bit better and closer to what WM should've been.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

> Anybody remember the whole storyline they did with Malenko and Lita in 2000?


*:lmao I remember the shower scene with Lita and if I remember correctly the payoff started the Lita-Matt romance. Dean was the OG creep though, but at least he wasn't hanging out with a fucking mop.*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^^^^ The Malenko/Lita stuff was gold. Then she just beat the hell out of him and won the title if I'm not mistaken? Can't say for sure though. 

I haven't seen the Austin, HBK or Orton 3SOH in a LONG time. Orton is definitely the worst of the bunch though. I remember Austin being awesome and can't really remember anything about HBK. I guess I should try and watch those some time if I get the chance to refresh the memory.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nah Lita didn't beat him. He beat her and won a date, then The Hardy Boys attacked him in the hotel room. 6 man elimination match at Armageddon and Malenko beats up Lita. Then Raw either the night after or something they do the Matt kisses Lita angle and Malenko stuff is dropped.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trips/Austin 3SOH is what you show your kids when they ask what does the word *"MADNESS"* mean.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH's track record since going part time is definitely good imo. The tag match against Miz and Truth is the only bad match he's had. The match with Nash is better than it had any right being and although the Brock, Taker and Punk matches are divisive they all have positive advocates so even though they don't garner universal praise I think it's fair to say that they delivered in some form. The Lesnar series is a funny one. Some people dislike all of them, some like all of them and other folks are somewhere in the middle. Personally I was satisfied with all of them, the cage match being the one I'd point to as being truly great.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

With the exception of the street fight portion of the HHH V Austin match. All the 3SOH matches in WWE are pretty shitty.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Austin is on the That Damn Good DVD isn't it? I have that. Maybe I'll stick it in during the week and check it out. 

I would dish out some stars for part time Trips but I don't have a rating for half of the matches yet so there's no point. I need to watch Mania 29, ER Cage, Punk NOC, Nash TLC again and come to a conclusion on Taker/Trips 27. I'm going to leave that one as long as I possibly can so I can watch with fresh eyes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> HHH's track record since going part time is definitely good imo. The tag match against Miz and Truth is the only bad match he's had. The match with Nash is better than it had any right being and although the Brock, Taker and Punk matches are divisive they all have positive advocates so even though they don't garner universal praise I think it's fair to say that they delivered in some form. The Lesnar series is a funny one. Some people dislike all of them, some like all of them and other folks are somewhere in the middle. Personally I was satisfied with all of them, the cage match being the one I'd point to as being truly great.




I can dig that, obviously the guy has his fans, and WWE wouldn't have given us 3 Brock Matches and 3 Taker matches if they didn't think people were interested in seeing them. 

Wrestling is the single most subjective sport/form of entertainment around. Everyone has different opinions about what is good or great, and no one is really wrong I guess. Unless you think Khali is an all time great. In that case I simply cannot help you, you have an in curable case of idiocy that is beyond fixing.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Too much Haitch talk from my liking, I will say I found a pretty good raw 10 orton/hhh that IMO is the best of their series

Bryan/Cena ss 13 watch #3

- Good lord this is glorious, top 4-5 in both men's catalog of matches, Two ***** on the same show:andy ? IDK its so good, it starts off alittle meh, with some nice mat-wrestling but then its just hits another gear after the bryan throws Cena into the steps and is just :mark: worthy until the end. I'll give it like I said ****1/2 but it can go up still, Its so similar to mitb with punk this much


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Part time Paul star ratings

HHH V Undertaker WM 27 (my rating slips every time, but i'll be nice since I loved it on live viewing) ****
HHH V Punk NOC ***3/4 
HHH and Punk V Miz and Truth Vengeance *
HHH V Nash TLC *** (how is this actually decent I'll never know)
HHH V Undertaker WM 28 ****3/4
HHH V Lesnar SS **1/2 
HHH V Lesnar WM ***3/4
HHH V Lesnar ER **1/2


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I watched HHH/Punk fairly recently, either early this year or late last year, and thought it was developing into a good brawl before the wildly overbooked finishing stretch. How people rate that match probably depends on if they felt the final few minutes were fun or terrible but the bulk of the work was solid.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Nash TLC was def. the sleeper of the decade.

I'm not sure why, but I have Payback on watchlist.

A major guilty pleasure of mine tbh - I even liked the story told on Ambrose/Kane. Remember how when it happened 3 months ago it blew everyone away? And now it's hated by a lot


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I haven't seen Payback yet. There's nothing on it I want to see. I might check out Ziggler/ADR because of all the praise but I'll wait for my friend to order the 2013 year so I can borrow it from him. Until then I'm fine without.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Bryan/Cena ss 13 watch #3
> 
> - Good lord this is glorious, top 4-5 in both men's catalog of matches, Two ***** on the same show:andy ? IDK its so good, it starts off alittle meh, with some nice mat-wrestling but then its just hits another gear after the bryan throws Cena into the steps and is just :mark: worthy until the end. I'll give it like I said ****1/2 but it can go up still, Its so similar to mitb with punk this much


I need to watch this again. It's a fantastic match but I'm sure they have a better match in them. Don't think it holds a candle to Cena/Punk MITB.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H Vs Kevin Nash... I think I undercut it on my rating before, thinking about **** 1/4* or something.

It had NO right to be good but it ended up being a fucking masterpiece for what it was. Nash knew it was his last hurrah in the big leagues and decided to take a few big bmps while letting Hunter carry the bulk of the work. 

Honestly? It's one of my favorite matches ever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

A 2011 Nash/HHH sledgehammer ladder match is one of your favourite matches ever? Wow. I honestly can't recall too much about it. I remember thinking it was going to be a train wreck heading in but that it turned out to be a pleasant surprise when it was over. Nothing specific though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys please, how can you forget :HHH :axel?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Backlash 2000*

:mark: my all time favourite event in the history of everything and all existence.


*Edge & Christian Vs X-Pac & Road Dogg - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

Debra randomly returns to do the ring announcing for this match. No idea where she went, and honestly she does a TERRIBLE job at announcing. But she's married to Austin at this point and she had nice boobs so ok.

DX are "favoured" to win this tag match. Ok, more experience and shit I understand... but fuck, JR and Lawler are always putting over DX as quite possibly the best tag team ever. Did these guys EVER team up before Feb when Gunn got injured? 

LOL, Edge takes down Pac with a spinning heel kick, something we're more likely to see from him rather than Edge... so X-Pac spits in Edge's face and tags out :lmao. Sounds more like something Road Dogg would do to Bradshaw before running away and tagging in Billy .

E&C have things going their way early on, but we get a real nice cut off spot where DX gain the advantage and begin to isolate Christian. CHRISTIAN FIP :mark:. Hope it's good in 2000 like it is nowadays.

X-PAC RIDING BAREBACK ON CHRISTIAN IN THE CORNER. Right after Tori choked him a little. Sounds like Storytime with Andy. All that's missing is a cripple. Edge is kinda crippled now, and he's on the apron, so can he count?

DX keep using those good old fashioned HEEL TACTICS to control the match and keep things going their way. Preventing the ref from seeing tags, double teaming, using Tori etc. Then eventually Edge & Christian turn one of their HEEL TACTICS against them with Edge hitting a diving headbutt on Road Dogg while the ref is busy with X-Pac!

X-FACTOR! The ref is busy dealing with Tori and Road Dogg, so Christian comes in and BUSTS X-PAC OPEN with a ring bell! E&C retain their titles!

Good tag match. Good good tag match. Me likey . I like how E&C are still in their "slow heel turn" phase so they can do the babyface shit in their matches while also resort to heel stuff (ring bell for example) without completely turning and still getting good crowd reactions. 

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Dean Malenko Vs Scotty 2 Hotty - WWF Light Heavyweight Championship Match*

THE ICEMAN VS THE WORM.

Ahhh heel Lawler, how I miss you. When you were good anyway. Gotta love him trying to defend Malenko's use of the ropes to win the LHW title on SD.

:lmao at JR revealing he attempted THE WORM.

Speaking of, Malenko countering the bulldog that would normally lead to THE WORM with a rather epic clothesline is :mark: worthy.

Dean works the leg of Scotty, which is smart because it slows down Scotty and wears them down for the TEXAS CLOVERLEAF. Good GOD at the Mr Perfect bump when Malenko kicks Scotty's leg out from under him while he's at the ropes. Scotty damn near KILLS HIMSELF doing it.

Scotty sells the leg really well for the MOST part. He does have some iffy moments though lol.

He gets a couple of comebacks in, but he does stupid shit like CLIMB THE ROPES WITH A BAD LEG, which allows Malenko to counter with SUPERPLEXES.

Iffy selling moment: Scotty hits THE WORM. And he HOPS ON THE BAD LEG to do it as if nothing was wrong. Bah. At least Malenko keeps things good with a nice callback spot to the SD match by attempting to use the ropes again, and hitting a motherfucking SWEET double arm powerbomb.

Malenko can't seem to put Scotty away so he resorts to climbing the ropes. Scotty sees it as his chance to REVENGE with a superplex of his own, but it's countered into a TOP ROPE DDT and Malenko retains his title.

Great match. Not AS great as I used to think it was, but overall it holds up pretty well. Malenko is great. Scotty is mostly good. Shame about the whole WORM thing.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


ALL HAND ON DECK!


*The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan Vs The APA*

APA :mark:. 4 big strong guys who like to fight. A SLOBBERKNOCKER~!

About 1 minute into the match and we've already seen Bradshaw smash Bull in the face with a big boot, DDT him, then hit a SUPER SHOULDER BLOCK off the ropes. I reckon this Bradshaw guy could make it all the way to the top one day.

:lmao Bossman tries to be all cool and shit and lands on his feet after being thrown outside by Bradshaw. Then Farooq kicks in him the face. 

Oh, anyone wanna take a guess as to who might be the ref in this TAG TEAM match? No, it's not Earl Hebner. TEDDY "TAG TEAM MATCH" LONG! Bet his favourite event of all time was WM 2000. ALL DEM TAG TEAM MATCHES, PLAYA!

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL. Might be a top 5 finisher of all time for me. I love it. Match don't end there though. Bossman and Farooq spend about half this match on the outside brawling with each other :mark:. Finish is pretty epic.

Awesome brawl between 4 big bastards who just beat the shit out of each other + showed some pretty tremendous athleticism for their sizes.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Great little backstage promos with The Hardy Boys talking about working together then only fighting if it comes down to them. Then they switch to Crash and BOB with Bob saying he can't wait to beat the hell out of Crash :lmao.


*Crash Holly Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Tazz Vs Perry Saturn Vs Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

:mark: multiman hardcore title match :mark:. They show clips of Crash winning the title back on SD during a Matt Vs Jeff hardcore title match. Matt Vs Jeff was a pretty damn awesome hardcore title match. Needs some love.

Match can only end if someone pins Crash or Crash pins someone. None of that losing the title without being pinned bullshit! 30 seconds in and we see a POWERBOMB already lol. A sign of things to come :mark:.

Crash tries to run away and everyone fights on the Backlash stage. CLIMBING HIGH AND JUMPING~!

I remember the first time I saw this, when Jeff does a big jump the commentators say he's like a young Shawn Michaels. I didn't quite hear what he said the first time other than "Shawn Michaels" and I rewound the tape (VHS bitches) to hear it again because I thought they mentioned HBK in a meaningful way . Was hoping they would explain his absence because I'd missed the last 2 years and had no idea where he (or Undertaker for that matter) was.

:lmao poor Crash, he really, really takes a shit kicking in this one :lmao. Having to pin him only forces everyone to try and kill him the entire time, while killing each other to take them out long enough so they can secure the pin .

Match does slow down and get a little dull at one point which makes me sad . Needs more STEVE BLACKMAN. Maybe even Al Snow and a bowling ball.

:lmao at Tazz. SON OF A BITCH! CHOKE! CHOKE! While he's got some wire wrapped around the neck of Jeff .

DICK MURDOCH REFERENCE~! I'm sure I have to add a couple of points on the CAL SCALE for that :side:.

Hardy's bring out the fun in the shape of a LADDER~! The ladder gets a pop :lmao.

"HI PERRY, WHAT'S GOING ON? We've got Perry Saturn draped across our announce table  ". Oh man, the way Lawler says that is incredible :lmao.

Swanton off the ladder! Matt goes for the cover, Jeff breaks it up and they look to fight until TAZZ shows up. TAZZMISSION! STOP SIGN! Everyone gets taken out on the outside, and Crash gets the pin off the stop sign!

Mostly a fun match. Does have that dull spot in the middle though. JR constantly confusing Tazz and Saturn is :lmao though.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle*

WHEN IT COMES CRASHING DOWN AND IT HURTS INSIDE~!

THE SHOWSTER!

THE HULK UP! THE LEG DROP! THE KICKOUT!

HOGAN CHANTS! "MORE PEOPLE ARE CHANTING HOGAN THAN THEY HAVE IN YEARS!"

IF THE LEGDROP DON'T WORK, THE CHOKESLAM WILL!

GOAT SQUASH MATCH!

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The Dudley Boys Vs T & A*

:mark:

I LOVE this tag match. I LOVE the build up video too. TRISH IN LINGERIE ROLLING AROUND ON TABLES. I'VE GOT WOOD! FAP FAP FAP!

I'M GONNA GET YOU YA LITTLE BITCH!

Albert takes some great shots and bumps really well for his size early on as The Dudley Boys control the opening part of the match. Albert rules. T & A as a team ruled. TRISH ruled. Dudley Boys rules. This match has everything going for it .

"DUDLEY'S UNIQUE VERSION OF BIRTH CONTROL" :lmao JR's call for the headbutt to the groin spot.

Good god I think Albert killed D-Von. BICYCLE KICK RIGHT TO THE FUCKING FACE. And that brings us to the D-Von FIP. T & A are GREAT during all of this, really taking it to D-Von, using the time tested STF as well as you are likely to see. Oh, and Albert press slamming Test on D-Von then screaming to Bubba "TESTIFY TO THAT!" is awesome. Then he keeps taunting Bubba after the hot tag is made but the ref never sees it . ALBERT RULES.

D-Von is a great FIP too. Bumps around really, really well and you can't help but wanna cheer him on because he is just getting MAULED by these 2 big bastards.

Oh hey, TRISH is at ringside. Not that you'd notice because she does NOTHING. She's literally just there because Bubba wants to put her through a table. She's a pretty shitty manager lol. 

HOT TAG~! Back suplex neck breaker and everyone, including the commentators, think it's a 3-D. Urgh. Morons. They go for the ACTUAL 3-D, but Trish gets on the apron, shakes his titties to distract Bubba, and Test cracks him in the face with a big boot for the win!

Awesome tag. Love it love it love it love it. A great example of the STF. And then afterwards we get TRISH through a table.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Essa Rios - WWF European Championship Match*

Eddie is wrestling in a tux. LITA LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP is out there with Essa. Man-Chyna is there too.

Oh man, first exchange and we get BOTCHES GALORE. Essa nearly trips over Eddie, then Eddie... does something and doesn't even connect but Essa sells it anyway and I'm wondering WTF is going on.

Huh, Eddie IS a heel here. Odd. He was kinda a little bit of a tweener during this time I guess then. Because his Latino Heat stuff was getting over and entertaining people, but he was still screaming shit like "screw you" to the fans during matches.

OMG HOW HOT DOES LITA LOOK?

:lmao what a SPLAT Essa makes when he dives over the ropes and Eddie moves.

Crowd are pretty dead here, but who can blame them? They just wasted about 10 sodding minutes putting TRISH on a stretcher and putting her in the ambulance. Eddie and Essa botching and being sloppy as fuck ain't helping. Wonder what Eddie would have been like had he come into WWF CLEAN instead of waiting until 2002.

LITA FAP FAP FAP gets thrown off the top rope right into the Spanish announce table! FUCK YOU MAN-CHYNA YOU BIG COCKED CUNT. JUST BECAUSE LITA IS HOT AND YOU ARE A MAN.

Asai(?) Moonsault from Essa and he and Eddie crash awkwardly into the announce table. Looked painful.

They make it up with Essa's INSANE dive over the turnbucke to Eddie on the outside! 

Fucking Man-Chyna. She practically destroys poor LITA because she tried to interfere in the match... then moments later interferes herself as if everything is fine. Cunt. She wishes she had one.

Aeroplane spin into a neckbreaker looked cool... but the finish? Eh. Fell flat.

Match is... decent. Sloppy and botchy in a LOT of places, but also has some good shit here and there too. LITA being at ringside helps . Shame Man-Chyna is the one to get stripped at the end instead of LITA.

Disappointing in a LOT of ways .

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


FUCK ME STEPHANIE HAS AMAZING LEGS. VINCE MCMAHON HAS THE PERSONALITY OF TONY SOPRANO. JR WATCHES THE SOPRANOS. PLANES, TRAINS AND AUTOMOBILES REFERENCE. GOAT PPV.


*Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - WWF Intercontinental Championship Match*

These 2 fucking hate each other, and JR brings up their past and how they've wrestled around the world and shit which I think adds to matches like this. They made a collar and elbow tie up look VICIOUS at the start of the match. Then SLAPS TO THE FACE... and then they exchange pin counters. Which is just odd lol.

CHOP BATTLE~! But it looks and sounds brutal so it's ok . 

OH MY GOD. I literally said "Uuuuuuhhhwwwwww" (hard to exactly spell out the noise I made, so just go with it lol) out loud as Benoit does the suicide dive and Jericho moves... and Benoit doesn't reach the barricade instead he nose dives HEAD FIRST into the floor. Surprised he didn't need neck surgery then and there!

Speaking of sick looking bumps, Jericho gets thrown into the steps and leaps over them, so Benoit dropkicks them back at him. Instead of the usual "to the knee" bump... the top half of the steel steps goes right into the fucking RIBS of Jericho and fuck, looks like it hurt a TON. No idea if that was how it was supposed to happen lol.

So Jericho is HURT. And Benoit is Benoit. ATTACK THE RIBS :mark:. Benoit knows what to do . And he does it well .

I'D HAVE A HEART ATTACK IF HE GIVES UP ON AN ABDOMINAL STRETCH. Uhhh... careful there Jerry... methinks you might have a heart condition .

I like how Jericho gets ONE opening after some pretty brutal rib work and immediately tries for the win with a Lionsault. Unfortunately for him, it hurt his ribs so he couldn't go for a cover straight away.

Back Superplex that Benoit counters with a cross body looks great. Makes one hell of an IMPACT on the mat too. DOUBLE POWERBOMB. Kinda hate that move. Jericho always seems to do it at dumb times... like when he's had his arm worked over... or in this match after spending most of the match getting his ribs pummelled.

CROSSFACE~!

Love how Benoit fights while Jericho tries to lock in the Walls of Jericho. He fights for his life to avoid being fully turned over, and in doing so gets closer to the ropes so when it IS locked in he can easily reach the ropes and escape with little to no damage done.

REF BUMP~! IC TITLE TO THE FACE! THE COVER! 2 COUNT? BOOOOO!

FLYING HEADBUTT! JERICHO GETS THE IC TITLE UP! BENOIT GOES FACE FIRST! THE REF CALLS FOR THE BELL. THE COMMENTATORS ARE UTTERLY CLUELESS. LOL.

"WELL THAT DECISION SUCKS!" :lmao

So this match is awesome. I'm a big fan of the finish too, even if it looked to have legitimately fuck Benoit's face up . Also, it begins the 2 year long feud between Jericho and Tim White, ending in a HIAC match at JD 02! Tim retires and tries to commit suicide every week on TV afterwards!

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Triple H Vs The Rock - Shane McMahon Special Guest Referee - WWF Championship Match*

HHH has Vince and STEPHANIE FAP FAP in his corner... and Rock has AUSTIN 3:16! Except Austin hasn't shown up yet. Vince's sources claim he might have had some transportation difficulties. TONY SOPRANO~!

CARD SUBJECT TO CHANGE~!

The match that SHOULD have main evented WM. Then again I do love the finish to that match as opposed to the finish to this match... so I'm fine with this main eventing a "B" PPV. After all, Rock is just a B+ wrestler .

I lied. Rock is closer to a D- or something .

:lmao "VINCE YOU MISSED THE RING, THAT WAS THE RING POST!!!"

:lmao at HHH and Shane hugging before HHH goes for a pin attempt. Jericho can learn a thing or two about how to treat referees.

I do find it slightly odd that HHH has Rock in a sleeper hold and Shane is checking on him and shit... why doesn't Shane just call for the bell and say Rock gave up? The whole purpose of Shane being the ref is to utterly SCREW The Rock out of the title. Fast counts for HHH, refusing to count for The Rock... so why stop there? The match could have been over already! Nitpicking I know. In fact I don't really care lol, I'm just rambling . SHANE O'MAC!

I love how Vince keeps getting involved, but at the same time they have Shane doing something with HHH so he doesn't see anything, still keeping up the idea that Shane is impartial even though we all know he isn't.

DDT TO HHH! 1...2...3 MY GOD THE ROCK JUST WON THE WWF TI...HAHAHA FUCK NO. Shane refuses to count! Suck it, Rock.

DOUBLE ROCK BOTTOM THROUGH THE TABLE! Shane is dead.

MR BIG GRAPEFRUITS! :lmao

PEDIGREE! But Shane is down. Better get a qualified referee out here. PAT PATTERSON AND GERALD BRISCO! Pat only gets a 2 though. Pat Patterson, the first ever IC champion. I should really review the tournament where he won the belt. I hear he had a ***** classic that night 8*D.

HHH, THE STOOGES and Vince McMahon lay into The Rock and this one is surely gonna end soon.

*GLASS SMASH*

STONE COLD! STONE COLD IS HERE! THE RATTLESNAKE IS BACK!

He takes out everyone with a chair except for The Rock. Linda comes down, shoves poor sweet STEPHANIE down, reinstates Earl Hebner who counts the 3 off a People's Elbow and we have a NEW WWF Champion! Shitty outcome but an amazing finish overall. Pop for Austin is amazing. Out of this world.

Ok, so technically this isn't the greatest of matches. Nor is it really that "great". BUT, the atmosphere, the build up, the shenanigans, the Austin return and even the title change all combine to make one of the most pure FUN matches of all time, one that can easily be pointed to in order to define the Attitude Era. THIS is an example of why PRO WRESTLING is so great. I don't even like The Rock (NEWSFLASH~!) but good god this entire thing is awesome.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 25*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Axel vs. HHH II with all the HHH/Vince shenanigans outside was ********** all the way. That shit was hilarious. IRON MAN MATCH. :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I haven't seen Payback yet. There's nothing on it I want to see. I might check out Ziggler/ADR because of all the praise but I'll wait for my friend to order the 2013 year so I can borrow it from him. Until then I'm fine without.


Ziggler/ADR is a storytelling _*masterpiece*_. Must-watch stuff, mate.

And seriously, the card is just so much fun. I'm prob. the biggest Payback advocate ever. Sheamus/Sandow is good, Barrett/Miz/Axel proved how awesome Chicago is, Kaitlyn/AJ is very good, Ambrose/Kane imo is underrated, Punk/Jericho is a DA MOVEZ spectacle that ain't ROH ridiculous at least, Shield/RKNo is Bryan at his best, Cena/Ryback is a pure comedy.

Wheater or not you dislike it, this is a show that, if even the bitchiest watches with his brain shut off, will at least have fun with.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It almost HAS to be for me.

Plus, I just have really warm memories about it due to watching the event with my best friends on our Christmas Break at my house, marking the fuck out at the show in it's entirety. I just really fucking love TLC 2011 as a whole to be honest. The short but sweet Henry-Show, Bryan winning his first WHC, the great main event TLC match, Ziggler carrying Ryder, HHH delivering the defining carry job of his entire career.

I'm a huge fan to say the least.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I might watch it later on if I can find it online somewhere. I have HHH/Punk NOC and a few of the DX/Legacy matches lying around too. Might just settle in for a night of wrasslin.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH night?

This week when I get back to the city is going to be GAME week.

Watch and learn from the greatest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I might watch it later on if I can find it online somewhere. I have HHH/Punk NOC and a few of the DX/Legacy matches lying around too. Might just settle in for a night of wrasslin.


Why not watch now?

Like, watch it fucking now.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

^^^^ I wasn't talking about Ziggler/ADR. I meant the Nash/HHH lol. I don't really give a damn about Ziggler or Del Rio so I'll need to be in an open mood with a bit of spare time on my hands to watch that match. I'll definitely check it out at some stage, I'm just not in a big hurry to do it. 

I wish. I start my classes on Tuesday and I'm working all week on top of that. Busy times ahead. I'm definitely making time to download and watch TKC on Tuesday evening but that's about all I'm going to have time for. Looking forward to your review, KOK, especially if I don't manage to get my hands on it Tuesday. I'll be bummed and annoyed but at least I can read about it if not watch it.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

ATF said:


> Ziggler/ADR is a storytelling _*masterpiece*_. Must-watch stuff, mate.


*Truth. The storytelling in that match, ADR's viciousness and being hell-bent on getting his title mixed with Ziggler being sympathetic figure and even ADR's promo was brilliant. Sadly, it turned all into shit afterward but definitely the match of night though.*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Aw c'mon Starbuck. Give Ziggler/Rio a chance some time soon. If Jerry Lawler became a fan of Ziggler after this match, so will you. Del Rio also does something in that match that will soon become one of your favorite things ever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Can't believe I'm getting peer pressured into watching a Dolph Ziggler match of all things. I'll be sure to drop some thoughts when I eventually get around to watching it. I just might shit on it for fun .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Can't believe I'm getting peer pressured into watching a Dolph Ziggler match of all things. I'll be sure to drop some thoughts when I eventually get around to watching it. I just might shit on it for fun .


Go watch it ya stupid BRICK .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Go watch it ya stupid BRICK .


You shut up you big PITCH .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, you're a mod out here. The fact that you haven't seen Ziggler/ADR yet is criminal to say the least


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its not a storytelling masterpiece, its a masterpiece in general, most uniquely worked match in the wwe in a long time


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FUCK the haters STARBUCK.

Go watch some HHH instead. Fuck that Dolph Ziggler nonsense, needs more sledgehammers.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn, Starbuck is putting on her burying shoes and putting in work on not just :ziggler1, but :ziggler3's fans.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> You shut up you big PITCH .


THEMS FIGHTIN WORDS!

But seriously, watch it. Took me until like, last week to finally see it because I too didn't give a flying monkey fuck about Del Rio (I claim to be a Ziggler fan but honestly I don't really watch much of his matches anyway lol)... but damn it was great. Not MOTYC or anything like that, which a lot of people have claimed it to be over the last few months since it happened, but absolutely worth your time to see it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I have more important things to do like create the Raw discussion thread. Hey, Cal, how about you do something useful for a change and create the Raw discussion thread so I can lie and say I'm going to watch Ziggler/Del Rio when I'm really going to watch HHH instead?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll have no part in your lies. Plus, fuck the Raw thread. And section. I don't venture into that place .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

We have to have a Raw discussion thread or there will be anarchy come Monday night and we can't have that, it's not best for business. 

Sorry Dolphins but Mod duty calls. I'll have to put it on the back burner for now. Making Raw discussion threads is a very tiring and time consuming process.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Aw c'mon Starbuck. Give Ziggler/Rio a chance some time soon. If Jerry Lawler became a fan of Ziggler after this match, so will you. Del Rio also does something in that match that will soon become one of your favorite things ever.


I didn't become a Ziggler fan after that. 

But other than that, it's definitely worth watching.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

As the #1 dolphin in this thread, you really should give it a watch man, not going harass you to watch it, but you should, I know most of you guys aren't really high on him and Del Rio doesnt help the cause but it truly is a great match. Cal was referring to me :lol, I have brock/punk MOTY now but ziggler/del rio is a hair behind it IMO


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can only imagine. RAW is in Chicago, so you're going to have a hard time controlling those darn Punk marks in that discussion thread. unk7

EDIT: :lmao what the hell is that smiley and where did it come from? I thought I was summoning bald Punk, not elliptical Punk.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Ziggler V Del Rio Payback is ***1/2 to 3/4

Overrated around these parts imo


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rock match set DVD review

Disc 1​
Match # 1: The Rock vs HHH- singles match for the IC title( RAW 2/13/97)

Pretty good match here, Rocks early work isn’t too great but this might be the exception. Its funny how these two guys were fighting for the IC title here and three years later would be fighting for the WWF title, cool stuff. For a TV match this is good stuff, and it actually went a good long distance. Only negative part is The ****** Tonk man coming down and doing commentary and making me want to mute the TV with his terrible fucking voice. This is also in Lowell Massachusetts in some TNA arena that holds like 8’000 people. Still, fucking fun shit and its Rocky’s first title. *** ¾*

Match # 2: The Rock vs Owen Hart- singles match for the IC title( RAW 6/04/98)

This sounds fucking fun on paper and Rock is in full heel mode here as the leader of the nation of Domination. The nation keeps interfering in the first 2-3 minutes but they eventually get ejected. The next 2-3 minutes are okay but it ends VERY quickly when Chyna interferes and hits Owen with a bat. No idea why this was included. * ½*

Match # 3: The Rock vs HHH- KOTR quarterfinals match( RAW 6/22/98)

This was when the nation/DX feud was hot and this was only weeks till KOTR ( MANKND/TAKER). I think it was Ken Shamrock who won KOTR this year but since it was quarterfinals it is on RAW. This was a decent match that had Chyna interfering and nearly costing rock the match. The ending came when the Rock gave a low blow to HHH while the ref was distracted and he moved on in KOTR. This was very much your standard TV match, but it certainly wasn’t bad. ***

Match# 4: Mankind vs the Rock- singles match for the WWF title( Survivor Series 1998)

An all-time classic here, as it was the final round of a tourney to determine the new WWF title, this included one of the best heel turns and the start of the corporate champion. This was certainly no wrestling clinic, this was a fucking FIGHT, and a great one too. It became a hardcore match as more and more weapons were being brought into the match. Shane and Vince at ringside was GOLD, especially Shane. In the end Vince screwed mankind to become the new WWF champion and execute a beautiful heel turn. ****

Match # 4: Mankind vs The rock- LMS match for the WWF title( St valentine’s day massacre 1999) 

Another match that I here is good, but I have never seen before. This was the PPV where Vince fought SCSA in a cage but I forget if that match was good :lol. Usually not a fan of LMS matches unless their good like Jericho/HHH at fully loaded 2000. This was pretty fun, it was just below the SVS match because the draw was dumb, if it wasn’t a LMS and Mankind won it would have been better, but alas, it was a draw and the crowd was pissed. *** ¾*

Match # 5: Mankind vs the Rock- ladder match for the WWF title( RAW 2/15/99)

This was the night after the previous match and IMO this was where they fucked up the feud, the ME of WM XV should have been Austin vs Rock vs Mankind with rock as champion, Austin getting hi rumble shot, and Mankind getting a rematch. But still, this is a FUN match. I’ve never been a big fan of this match, but I had fun with it, I still think that it would have been better as a normal match but whatever, its not a great ladder match IMO. *** ¼*

Match # 6: The Rock vs Steve Austin- singles match for the WWF title( Wrestlemania XV)

In one of the worst wrestlemanias of all time was the birth of the greatest rivalries in WWF history. This was the first of their three famous WM bouts. Unfortunately, this one was not that great IIRC. I actually enjoyed it a little more this time but just because the ending is fun. *** ½*


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

That's a great review smitty. Rock/HHH at the final four PPV is a better match IMO. I liked the callbacks to their first match and you also had Chyna's debut at the end of the match. Although both matches aren't great really. Especially when you compare them to their later matches in 2000. The match with Owen Hart was indeed a strange inclusion. If I had to guess, I think it's because Rock wanted to have a match with Owen in there just to pay respect. Not sure . Still a better match than their match in 1997.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Rock's first three disc has FOUR HHH bouts, automatically making it better than Rock's MEH second three disc set.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> That's a great review smitty. Rock/HHH at the final four PPV is a better match IMO. I liked the callbacks to their first match and you also had Chyna's debut at the end of the match. Although both matches aren't great really. Especially when you compare them to their later matches in 2000. The match with Owen Hart was indeed a strange inclusion. If I had to guess, I think it's because Rock wanted to have a match with Owen in there just to pay respect. Not sure . Still a better match than their match in 1997.


Thanks! I'm starting disc 2 now, Rock/HHH in a cage RAW 5/07/99 is up first, sounds awesome. 

The Backlash match is on here :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I couldn't believe me eyes, but when I was looking back at what the best matches from 1999 were, Rock filled up most of it. Dude was at his comedic peak that year.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES.

"Comedic Peak".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock was funny?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Best match set of all time? thinking of buying one on amazon


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Best match set of all time? thinking of buying one on amazon


Tombstone: History of The Undertaker
Ric Flair: The Ultimate Collection (think this is OOP now though, so second hand is your only option)
Rey Mysterio: Biggest Little Man

Those are imo the "essential" match sets .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

History of the Undertaker is on netflix, might check it out, its an old DVD so its missing a lot of gems past mania XX. Definitely picking up the Mysterio set, and the Bret Hart one. 

Rock/HHH BL 2000 is on :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> Best match set of all time? thinking of buying one on amazon


Here are the absolute MUSTS for any WWE fan

Tombstone: History of the Undertaker
Viva La Raza: The Legacy of Eddie Guerrero
Biggest Little Man: Rey Mysterio
Best there is, was, and ever will be: Bret Hart Collection
Foleys Greatest Hits and Misses: Hardcore Bonus Edition
Breaking the Code: Chris Jericho
HERE COMES THE PAIN: Brock Lesnar
Cheating Death, Stealing Life: The Eddie Guerrero Story
Best of In Your House


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^ I dont have any of those 

Then again I started my collection two weeks ago :lol.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Thoughts on the 'Breaking the code: Behind the walls of Jericho' DVD? Watched one part of the first set yesterday and so far, looks quite enjoyable with some detailed footages of his early days working with different foreign companies but it doesn't cover a lot in 2001 where his big push started to happen. It shows his unification win but IIRC, that's the only highlight from 2001 that is shown on the DVD. It's quite weird how he admits the Wrestlemania match with HHH was underwhelming and the true main event from that show was Rock/Hogan.

I'll plan to watch the rest of the first set tomorrow.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How's Deadliest Matches? I think it has the HIAC match with Orton and Taker in it so that's one positive.

Watched Breaking the Code a week ago. Good documentary even though it sucks that they skip everything involving Benoit and some good matches in there as well.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Deadliest matches is mostly a good and extremely fun set. Matches with Foley and Orton are :mark: (except for the boiler room crap). Some matches with Big Show. The good match with Khali. Good stuff with Kennedy. Even the Big Daddy V match is quite good. The first few matches on the set are shit but you'll find enjoyment in them ONLY if you mark for the Dead Man .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> How's Deadliest Matches? I think it has the HIAC match with Orton and Taker in it so that's one positive.
> 
> Watched Breaking the Code a week ago. Good documentary even though it sucks that they skip everything involving Benoit and some good matches in there as well.


Don't listen to Cal, he's ignorant to the brilliance that is the Boiler Room Brawl. Ill forgive him though because he writes awesome reviews and hates on matches in the funniest way possible. Deadliest matches is a VERY fun set, other than the first 3 or so matches, all are good stuff for the most part. The Edge, Orton, and Foley matches are obviously the best, but everything else ranges from very good to atleast FUN. I found it for $4.99 at Best Buy, definitely worth it, for the Edge HiaC and Orton matches alone.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Breaking the Code isn't the best Jericho documentary, right? And I think Benoit's absence is one reason why they didn't show much from 2001 because they did have that Ladder match from 2001 and then become a tag team for a while. It's quite hilarious that Lance Storm talks about how almost everyone in his gym lacked personality but then he saw Jericho walk in and that played a big factor in his career. In fact, Jericho himself said he would probably have not become a wrestler had Lance Storm not been working with him.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Jericho DVD doc. is good but it's not really a must see if you've read his books.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So many good WWE DVDS, so little money :lol. 

I'll be buying a few things on amazon tonight though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TaylorFitz said:


> The Jericho DVD doc. is good but it's not really a must see if you've read his books.


Pretty much. It felt like I was going through his career all over again, this time in footage and spoken form, also not nearly as detailed.



Cactus Jack said:


> Don't listen to Cal, he's ignorant to the brilliance that is the Boiler Room Brawl. Ill forgive him though because he writes awesome reviews and hates on matches in the funniest way possible. Deadliest matches is a VERY fun set, other than the first 3 or so matches, all are good stuff for the most part. The Edge, Orton, and Foley matches are obviously the best, but everything else ranges from very good to atleast FUN. I found it for $4.99 at Best Buy, definitely worth it, for the Edge HiaC and Orton matches alone.


KingCal officially started sucking the moment he dissed GTA San Andreas. 

But regardless of his hate for the boiler room brawl, I've been interested in that match for quite a while.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I have to consider buying more wrestling DVDs. I just have one wrestling DVD and that is about DX (which came with SVR 2009) and it's short. Just shows one match against the McMahons and a few wrestlers talk about how great DX were in 2006 and it ends. First DVD I'll buy is the Epic Journey of Dwayne Johnson. Watched it last week and thought it was brilliant.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock can't talk and 'needs' Heyman, riiight.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Pretty much. It felt like I was going through his career all over again, this time in footage and spoken form, also not nearly as detailed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cal doesn't like GTA San Andreas? What are you kidding me? Until GTA5 came out, it was BY FAR the best GTA ever. He probably just didn't get it, being from England he doesn't know how hard it is on the streets of Compton USA 

In all seriousness, Boiler Room Brawl is one of the most hard hitting, violent, intense spectacles in all of wrestling. The beginning with Taker searching through the dark room for Mankind gets you on edge like you would be during a good horror movie. Then the fighting starts. This isn't a show kids, they were just legit beating the ever loving shit out of each other. The lack of commentary is kinda awesome too, just every once in a while Vince or Curt will just be like "Wow" or "Holy Shit did you see that?" So physical. If you love and can appreciate tremendous brawling, then you will enjoy that match. I don't understand how Cal, who claims to love it when two big bastards try to knock each others heads off, cannot appreciate that one. It's original, and it's great. Atleast from my point of view.

Ok I'm gonna stop giving Cal crap now, because between pissing him and Starbuck off, I'm doing a good job of trying to get myself banned


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> I have to consider buying more wrestling DVDs. I just have one wrestling DVD and that is about DX (which came with SVR 2009) and it's short. Just shows one match against the McMahons and a few wrestlers talk about how great DX were in 2006 and it ends. First DVD I'll buy is the Epic Journey of Dwayne Johnson. Watched it last week and thought it was brilliant.


Collecting DVDS is fun, I only have seven but I still like it :lol. 

We should post our collections! I will when Mine gets good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GTA SA is shit. Terrible story, terrible setting, awful characters. And of course playing it today is terrible because it doesn't hold up well in terms of graphics and gameplay. Makes it even harder to get into it . GTA V is awesome though .

Boiler Room Brawl for the most part is just so incredibly DULL. Goes on forever too. They have infinitely better matches together. Like, every other match is 1000x better.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

after angle/Rock NWO 2001 I have two matches left on this disc, Booker/Rock SS 01 and Jericho/ Rock RR 02, so I should finish this disc and post the review. disc three only has 4 matches so I might finish that...not sure.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback's match on this past Smackdown is hilarious. Guy says "I HATE BULLIES" with the three count. How can you not love THE BIG GUY :ryback


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)




----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*This anti-bully bully Ryback gimmick has done him wonders. Of course the matches are still nothing special, but everything in between has been gold. That stupid downs walk he does in his entrance is just the best.*


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I think that Punk and Ryback's upcoming match(es) will be significantly better than their matches from 2012. Ryback as a monster heel and CM Punk as the underdog babyface (i.e: his matches against Mark Henry, Lesnar, and Show from last year) should work better than Punk as the heel and Ryback as the powerhouse face.

Of course, Ryback still sucks in the ring, but I'm hoping that we don't get anything as bad as their HIAC match :angle2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*The Rock Match set review​*
*Disc 2​*
*Match # 1: HHH vs the Rock- steel cage match( RAW 5/07/99)*

This was actually a really fun match that I have never heard of, it was not a classic by any means but it was good for a TV match. It started a little slow but picked up when the ref was knocked out and both men managed to escape the cage. This is where it got fun and when they went back inside the cage, it got even better. Really fun match, better than their 1997 bout by a hair. *** ¾*

*Match # 2: Mankind and the Rock vs Undertaker and Big Show- tag match for the tag titles (RAW 8/30/99)
*
When did taker and Big show team? I didn’t know that :lol. Whatever, this was hilarious at first when Mankind and Rock were beating Show to a pulp and taker just watched looking bored :lol. This was pretty boring IMO, Taker does nothing and Big Show makes me want to fall asleep, then TAKER FUCKING LEAVES and this shit is doomed. Ending was fun and the pop was HUGE and FINALLY….THE ROCK….HAS HAD A BORING MATCH!! **

*Match # 3: The Rock vs Kane- singles match( SD 12/30/99)*

This sounds fucking FUN on paper but then again, so did the last match. But this was actually fun, it was only a few weeks until the Rock won the most boring rumble of the 21st century and got his shitty title match at mania( alright it wasn’t THAT bad) which he didn’t even fucking win. Still a fun match that’s a good brawl. *** ¼*

*Match # 4: The Rock vs HHH- singles match for the WWF title( Backlash 2000)*

Thank god they put this match on here instead of the Mania match. Cal just reviewed this and I pretty much echo the same opinions on what he said, this may be one of the most FUN matches of 2000. This is the definition of a big match feel. A normally bad DC crowd( I think) was into this like crazy. The match was just pure awesomeness and then when Rock is being beaten by everyone….GLASS SHATTERS. Talk about a HUGE pop, one of the biggest. Then Linda comes down with Earl Hebner and the Rock hits the peoples elbow AKA the woussiest finisher ever and 1…2…3! We have a knew WWF champion! **** ½* 

*Match # 5: Shane Mcmahon vs The Rock- Steel Cage Match for the WWF title( RAW 5/1/00)*

Dear god please let this be short, it can be either good or bad but I predict bad :lol. This is torture because I know the next match on here is Rock/Angle NWO 2001 , I wanna see that dammit! This MIGHT be the most predictable WWE title match in history, did people actually think Shane was going to win the title? :lol. Anyway, this sucked ass, and they omit the WM 17 match but add this? I feel cheated even though I’m watching on Netflix :lol. DUD

*Match # 6: Kurt Angle vs the Rock- singles match for the WWF title( NWO 2001)
*
This was a good addition to the set, I STILL would have preferred Austin/Rock WM 17 but this is okay. I kind of think this match is overrated as some have it as **** ¾* but I think its still good for what it is, a good wrestling match. The first 15 minutes are a little slow but the ending really picks up and it becomes a solid wrestling match. I had fun with it. *** ¾*

*Match # 7: The Rock vs Booker T- singles match for the WCW title ( Summerslam 2001)*

What a….meh match. There was really nothing special except for PAUL HEYMANS ORGASMIC COMMENTARY. So fucking great. But besides that, I got nothing. Again, they omit Rock/Austin WM 17 but add this? That’s just not cool :lol. **

*Match # 8: The Rock vs Chris Jericho- singles match for the undisputed title( RR 2002)
*
I’ve always felt like this was a very disappointing match, it could have been better, but just wasn’t. That being said, its still a FUN match. It’s a little boring to sit through at times but I still like it. I thought the first 10 minutes were really boring but the last 10 we’re good. Still, better matches could have been included. *** ¼*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Unpopular opinion alert: I actually don't mind Ryback at all, I'm kind of a fan of his work. He's not amazing from a technical stand point, but I think with some more time in the ring with good opponents to add some polish, he could end up being a pretty good bruiser. For him, I'd prefer to see him in matches with smaller guys like CM Punk, Ziggler, etc so he can get a chance to show off his strength and they can bump around like mad men. I'm hoping Punker can pull a homeless mans Brock/Punk out of Ryback at Battleground. If anyone can, Punk can do it.

He's already as good if not better than Goldberg and Scott Steiner ever were in the ring (not including Steiner's tag team work, Im a fan of that). I'm gonna give him some more time and we will see if he has what it takes to be a main event guy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I kind of like Ryback, I hated his feud with Cena even though I thought both of their matches we're decent, I think I had ER at *** 1/2 and payback at *** 1/4. 

This stuff with Paul is going to be good since he has a mouthpiece


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Ryback a better wrestler than Scott Steiner? Blasphemy! His pair of matches against HHH is more fun and entertaining than anything Ryback's ever done!

Take that as you will. :HHH2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just found the History of the Intercontinental Championship on Amazon used for $1.99. Anyone have thoughts on this set?

Also, just got around to looking at the best PPV matches of 2012 set. Kind of a let down that Punk/Bryan OTL is left off, but their MITB is on it. Not that I didn't enjoy the MITB match, but OTL is a MOTYC, and some people's MOTY. And Cena/Kane Ambulance match is a Blu-Ray exclusive, and Sheamus/Bryan is only an exclusive. Should have made the actual set.

There is also a set called WWE Legendary Moments: As Chosen By John Cena. Don't know if anyone's seen this. Here is the list. Nothing before the Attitude Era. 



Spoiler: Cena's Favs



-Steve Austin wins his first WWE Championship
-DX Invades WCW Nitro
-Chris Jericho's WWE Debut
-Mankind's "This Is Your Life" With The Rock
-Arnold schwarzenegger Appears On SmackDown
-Austin vs. The Rock At WrestleMania XV
-Steve Austin Gives Vince, Shane & The Rock A Beer Bath
-Steve Austin & Kurt Angle Sing To Vince McMahon
-T.L.C. II From WrestleMania X-7
-The Rock's Greatest Punchlines
-Triple H's Return From Injury At Madison Square Garden
-The 9/11 SmackDown Tribute Show
-John Cena's Debut
-Chris Jericho Becomes The First Undisputed Champion
-Brock Lesnar & Big Show Destroy The Ring On SmackDown
-Kane Unmasked
-John Cena Wins His First WWE Championship & Creates The "Spinner" Belt
-The WrestleMania 23 "Battle Of The Billionares"
-Eddie Guerrero's Championship Celebration On SmackDown
-The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan At WrestleMania X-8
-Edge's First Money In The Bank
-DX's Greatest Hits
-Rey Mysterio Sets A Royal Rumble Record
-John Cena Returns & Wins The Royal Rumble
-Steve Austin Goes In The WWF Hall Of Fame
-Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker At WrestleMania 25
-Bret Hart Returns To The WWE
-Shawn Michaels Retires
-Tribute To The Troops


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> He's already as good if not better than Goldberg and Scott Steiner ever were in the ring (not including Steiner's tag team work, Im a fan of that).


NOOOOOOOOOOO way. I will never understand the Ryback > Goldberg talk until Ryback actually becomes above average (and Steiner smokes them both, though it's obv closer if you don't count tag work). I don't really hate him any more but there's nothing special about him. Which Ryback matches have happened recently that I should watch to show he's a good worker? I've seen the Danielson matches (most of them) and those were pretty much total carries. Like, hell, I remember Ryback even no-selling leg work in those. 

I'll honest-to-God watch some Ryback right now if someone points me to some matches.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

So Eddie's title celebration at WrestleMania XX wasn't included? C'mon, Cena! :troll :cena4 :cena5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You'd be better off watching some more WALL matches dude. Ryback has like 2 good matches. TLC with Punk and the match with Bryan. Bryan completely carries his match, and Ryback does do well in the TLC but it isn't a match to prove Ryback is actually good or better than Goldberg.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> So Eddie's title celebration at WrestleMania XX wasn't included? C'mon, Cena! :troll :cena4 :cena5


I don't think he has a choice even as the top guy. Even HHH never responds to any tweets that mention the Wolverine.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah.....I might not watch any Wall for a while ......


I've actually not seen the Punk/Ryback TLC, though.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Choke2Death said:


> I don't think he has a choice even as the top guy. Even HHH never responds to any tweets that mention the Wolverine.


I was JK. Even if Cena did choose a moment that involved Benoit, they probably wouldn't include it 

The fact that Cena's debut was against Kurt Angle means Angle will automatically be on a few future DVD releases. :angle


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah.....I might not watch any Wall for a while ......
> 
> 
> I've actually not seen the Punk/Ryback TLC, though.


Well it's worth a watch at least. Good match, Ryback's best. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5aEinDJFeYnAi3ISg3


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Most of those Cena favorites are already on other releases. Probably just something they though they could put Cena's name on and the kids would get it. DX invasion of Nitro is on like 23 countdowns. And the beer bath. And half of these are probably on the Raw Top 100 and OMG moments, and whatnot.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I wonder if Ryback can do a frankensteiner?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> You'd be better off watching some more WALL matches dude. Ryback has like 2 good matches. TLC with Punk and the match with Bryan. Bryan completely carries his match, and Ryback does do well in the TLC but it isn't a match to prove Ryback is actually good or better than Goldberg.



I'm not saying Ryback is great or anything, I'm just saying he has a lot of potential. 

I was a HUUUUGE Goldberg fan as a kid, but going back and watching some of his stuff left me awfully, awfully, depressed. The only matches that come to mind by him that where any good are vs DDP Halloween Havoc, vs Scott Hall Stun Gun match, and maybe the Sid match at HH99'(don't quote me on that, I remember enjoying it but it sounds crazy saying a Sid vs Goldberg match was good. I might have been drunk). So saying Ryback is better than Goldberg isn't really saying all that much, atleast from my point of view.

The Ryback matches I enjoyed were vs Punk TLC, vs Daniel Bryan, and if it counts the tag at SummerSlam 2010 he shows a lot of potential. Also his Mania match with Henry is pretty FUN. Seeing Ryback give Henry the Shellshock was a MOMENT, don't care what you say . He's really only been active as Ryback for around a year, give him some more time and let him get some polish and he should be a decent bruiser. WWE just needs to give him the right opponents and put him in a good feud. More Ziggler, Bryan, and Punk. Less Cena, Henry, etc.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

If Ryback was in Goldberg's position in the late 90s, he would have been big IMO. The guy has passion for the business and he is far more experienced than Goldberg ever was (Ryback has been in the WWE for over 10 years now). Not to mention he has better mic skills (not to say that they are great) and I haven't watched any of Goldberg's matches in WCW but Ryback, in his own right, can deliver a good match when he is with the right opponent. His matches with Bryan and CM Punk (just the TLC) were very good IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> If Ryback was in Goldberg's position in the late 90s, he would have been big IMO. The guy has passion for the business and he is far more experienced than Goldberg ever was (Ryback has been in the WWE for over 10 years now). Not to mention he has better mic skills (not to say that they are great) and *I haven't watched any of Goldberg's matches in WCW* but Ryback, in his own right, can deliver a good match when he is with the right opponent. His matches with Bryan and CM Punk (just the TLC) were very good IMO.


Cant really judge then man, and I hate to sound like a dick, I'd take a 5 min goldberg squash over anything ryback has done in those 10 yrs besides the two promos with Renee young and autograph dad :lmao


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Cant really judge then man, and I hate to sound like a dick, I'd take a 5 min goldberg squash over anything ryback has done in those 10 yrs besides the two promos with Renee young and autograph dad :lmao


 Fair enough :lol

It is really hard to judge but a guy like Ryback would have survived in the late 90s IMO. Goldberg has some fans here so maybe they can explain why he is better than Ryback.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wait... Ryback has been in the company for 10 years? 10? And he's only THIS good? That's pretty TERRIBLE tbh lol. Goldberg was better as a rookie than Ryback is 10 years in :lmao. And yeah, Goldberg's squash matches are better than anything Ryback has done thus far outside of the couple of good matches that have been mentioned. And then the guy does have some genuinely GREAT matches under his belt, the DDP match being a masterpiece for one.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Yeah, 10 years. Started off as a rookie in the Tough Enough series as Ryan Reeves (his real name) and then appeared in NXT 2010 again as another rookie called Skip Sheffield. Then skip to 2012 and he becomes THE Ryback. :vince

But in all seriousness, there were dirtsheet reports a few years ago reporting how WWE had high plans on Ryan to become a top face. http://www.wrestling-edge.com/mcmah...s-push-relationship-with-the-undertaker-more/


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Goldberg unquestionably just had the "it" factor. You really can't explain it unless you saw it live when it was happening. Seeing him come out like he did every week with the security team and breath smoke and the marching music, just everything. Then he'd come out and squash someone in 30 seconds and you were so pumped and had no idea why. It's like rooting for a team and said team always winning, it leaves you happy. Plus the way they booked this guy was just phenomenal. He didn't speak, so there was that air of mystery. Plus, he was so green and stiff in the ring, all his shit looked like it was killing people (probably because he really was. He retired Bret Hart with a kick to the head). 

Anyway, that was the Goldberg experience in a nutshell. I don't want to say it was all flash and no substance, because he was such a massive draw and so many people loved him. But when it comes down to it, if you're a fan of what happens between the ropes in wrestling, he left a lot to be desired.

He was definitely an original though.

If you subbed Ryback in for Goldberg and booked it the exact same way back in 1997-1998, I'm sure the results would have been VERY similar if not the exact same. I think Ryback is just suffering through some shitty booking with no real feuds and no consistent opponents to develop chemistry with. If his upcoming match with Punk is complete garbage you guys have my permission to rub it right in my face. I don't think it will though.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Apparently the Ryback character was scrapped in 2009 in FCW. Wish they'd kept it that way and dropped the ball with him after Nexus wrapped things up. The Sheffield character wasn't good either. In his segments, he was clearly a very watered down and terribly forced Stone Cold imitation. 

Can't believe he's been there 10 years.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

His entrance was awesome indeed. I lol'd at this comment "Goldberg was protecting the police" :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Goldberg ain't shit, this is what it's about.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oliver-94 said:


> Goldberg has some fans here so maybe they can explain why he is better than Ryback.


Better offensively in every way for starters. Everything Goldberg does looks way more impactful and he's the master of 'how the fuck does this guy know how to do that!?' heavyweight spots, like the leg take down thingy, that mind-blowing back flip in the DDP match, and a bunch of utterly badass throws and shit. He's a much better seller, too. They can both be pretty bad on no-selling, but at least Goldberg's no-selling is like 'yeah, I know you hit me with that - it just didn't hurt me'. Ryback's is more like he just forgets or doesn't realise a leg has been attacked for five minutes. I'm not terribly fond of Goldy's no-selling, and I'm not defending it (though the fact he can do that and not make me want to puke is mind-blowing), but putting it next to Ryback's gives him the advantage. Also Ryback's sells on basic moves like a strike is completely average while Goldberg sells them better than guys who get all time great praise (from people who aren't me, fwiw). He's not an all time great seller or anything, I'm trying to say that someone who gets all time great praise might sell a punch one way and Goldberg is better at it than that guy. Sense making...I, is.....? Goldberg makes pretty much everything he does seem huge and important. Ryback.....bleh. Boring as ass and nothing he's ever done to me has felt like a big deal. The squash matches aren't even fucking close. Goldberg are huge and explosive while Ryback's just feel like squash matches. I mean shit, are Ryback's squash matches bad? Hell no. But other than lifting two guys at once there's nothing stand out about them either. I remember back when Ryback was first getting his babyface push and people were going 'Goldberg is better at squashes, but Ryback was better at actual matches', and every time I asked for these 'actual matches' I'd get no response. Now that Ryback's actually HAD 'actual' matches like the Bryan series or the Jericho stuff, I think it's pretty goddamn clear at this point Goldy's got the better 'actual~' match line-up. I'd watch Goldebrg v. literally anyone and expect it has at least potential be fun while Ryback v. Bryan fucking Danielson doesn't even make me tune into an episode of WWE TV. The HIAC match last year was carried by CM Punk's personality (a guy with a LOT of fucking personality) and somehow still sucked major ass. Goldberg has flaws, Goldberg has some pretty heavy flaws at times, and he's far from a great worker, but there's literally no area I find Ryback to better. Even in Goldberg's weaknesses Ryback's are weaker. I can see where people are coming saying 'if Ryback was in Goldberg's era', but I think that's massively understating Goldberg and not giving him enough credit. I don't get the Ryback hype and never have, maybe he isn't bad (he HAS been, but maybe he isn't now), but IDK, I just find him completely bloody annoying and frequently want him to fuck off.



Maybe I do still hate Ryback. :lmao :lmao


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't think Ryback is a terrible seller. For a powerhouse-style wrestler, he's pretty decent when he sells correctly. Forward to 0.49 and the way he sells that uppercut from Cesaro makes you believe he is about to lose that match. He also sold the Shield attacks well (a random Smackdown episode in Wrestlemania season where they beat him up and then Mark Henry comes out to finish the job). As for Goldberg's selling, I've watched Goldberg's match with Rock and he did sell his arm injury very impressively in that match. Even when he speared him, he still showed it was hurt so he didn't ignore it completely.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Actually shocked, went and watched that punk/ryback tlc and expected to not like it and shit on it in here, but it was actually pretty good :lol, he must only do well in those type of matches. That is ryback's best singles match BY FAR, watched the bryan matches and didnt think to much of them

Want to hear hat Yeah has to say about it, btw is that your DM account Cal ? Pretty good gems on there, but wouldn't expect less :hbk2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, that's my DM. Even more GEMS on there too, but most are private (like the TLC match is lol).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Picked up 4 DVDs on Amazon. ER 2012, EC anthology, the older Bret Hart set, and mania 23. All for about $30 including shipping

Not a bad deal IMO


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Have you seen their No DQ match from UK a couple of weeks after WM25? It's a bit better and closer to what WM should've been.


Hmmmm, I was completely unaware this existed. Might have to add that one to the watch list. Pretty bad they had 2 other gimmick matches that year that were both better than a main event at Wrestlemania...



The Cynical Miracle said:


> Part time Paul star ratings
> 
> HHH V Undertaker WM 27 (my rating slips every time, but i'll be nice since I loved it on live viewing) ****
> HHH V Punk NOC ***3/4
> ...


Wow, this is by far the closest anyone has came to matching my exact feelings on these matches. The Punk match is really fun and those are about my exact ratings for the Lesnar feud. Well done my friend. :clap



ATF said:


> A major guilty pleasure of mine tbh - I even liked the story told on Ambrose/Kane. Remember how when it happened 3 months ago it blew everyone away? And now it's hated by a lot


People were blown away by Ambrose/Kane? Blown away by the ability to put someone to sleep?



ATF said:


> And seriously, the card is just so much fun. I'm prob. the biggest Payback advocate ever. Sheamus/Sandow is good, Barrett/Miz/Axel proved how awesome Chicago is, Kaitlyn/AJ is very good, Ambrose/Kane imo is underrated, *Punk/Jericho is a DA MOVEZ spectacle that ain't ROH ridiculous at least*, Shield/RKNo is Bryan at his best, Cena/Ryback is a pure comedy.


Ugh, sucks that this has become the general opinion of a company that was once so amazing...



smitty915 said:


> Best match set of all time? thinking of buying one on amazon


I'm amazed that no one mentioned The History of the WWE Championship. That's an ABSOLUTE must have. Has arguably some of the greatest matches of all time.



smitty915 said:


> Collecting DVDS is fun, I only have seven but I still like it :lol.
> 
> We should post our collections! I will when Mine gets good


That would take sooooooo much time for a lot of us in here.  Talking text wise, not picture wise of course. Some people have pictures. (You should see Platt's)



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Just found the History of the Intercontinental Championship on Amazon used for $1.99. Anyone have thoughts on this set?
> 
> Also, just got around to looking at the best PPV matches of 2012 set. Kind of a let down that Punk/Bryan OTL is left off, but their MITB is on it. Not that I didn't enjoy the MITB match, but OTL is a MOTYC, and some people's MOTY. And Cena/Kane Ambulance match is a Blu-Ray exclusive, and Sheamus/Bryan is only an exclusive. Should have made the actual set.
> 
> There is also a set called WWE Legendary Moments: As Chosen By John Cena. Don't know if anyone's seen this. Here is the list. Nothing before the Attitude Era.


Well, the IC Championship has an ass ton of repeats on it, but they're all really damn good repeats. The repeats alone make it worth a couple bucks (Bret/Perfect, Bret/Bulldog, HBK/Razor, Edge/Orton, Savage/Steamboat, etc.) Plus there's a few gems like Jarrett/Razor, RVD/Benjamin, & Umaga/Hardy.

Best PPV Matches of 2012 is nowhere near as good as the 2011 version and honestly I'd say the only big reason to buy it would be for Show/Sheamus from HIAC. I mean, Punk/Ziggler, Cena/Punk, Punk/Bryan, & Taker/HHH HIAC are all good but not _that _good imo. I've liked about 4 other Cena/Punk matches more honestly.

That Legendary Moments disc has no full matches, btw.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Since you're here, did you deliver with what you promised? The weekend is almost over. 

On another note, just watched the boiler room brawl. Only way to describe it is LOL. Cal has a point when he says it feels like it goes on forever and is a bit boring to his credit. But I don't hate it because the "prison riot" atmosphere makes the brawl kind of cool.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I found a funnier match than Rock/Punk from Royal Rumble.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I found a funnier match than Rock/Punk from Royal Rumble.


Del Rio/Ziggler Contract on a pole match beats Punk/Rock in the comedy department. Michael Cole actually plays a big part in the comedy as well, trying to sell the fuckery.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That match was pretty hilarious until Sheamus ruined all the fun. Damn that Sheamus. Thank goodness he's gone now. Good riddance to bad rubbish!

Vader/Hogan from Superbrawl is essentially both guys taking turns no-selling each other's offense until Ric Flair in makeup goes batshit insane. So many comedic gems in this match.






Seriously. NOTHING is sold. NOTHING.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I found a *funnier match than Rock/Punk from Royal Rumble*.


"Does not compute". "Impossible". "Does not exist". "WHAT?". "I don't understand".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

On second thought, Rock/Goldberg is funnier than all.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> On second thought, Rock/Goldberg is funnier than all.


But Hollywood Rock is so amazing. If he wasn't that character in the NWO match with Hogan, it could have been even more dismal than it was. 

Punk/Rock at EC was more comedic than the RR because of the silly and dumbass ref bumps. The ref taking the ankle injury was terrible.


----------



## Showoff 2.0 (Aug 2, 2013)

*summerslam 2013 review*

This is a review of one of my favorite ppvs of all time and in my opinion every match can have something positive said about it
1. Rob van dam vs. Dean ambrose: united states championship- This match was great it h was what everyone thought it would be and that's good in this case and my favorite part was that one leg legdrop when ambrose was hanging on top of the barricade but the finish sort of (in my opinion) hurt this match because ambrose could've used this high profile win but I guess if rvd lost he wouldn't have had as much momentum for his world title feud if he lost-3.5 stars

2. Bray wyatt vs. kane: ring of fire match- I know this wan't a technical masterpiece but I still really liked it it was fast paced and everything but I feel it really didn't display what bray wyatt could do considering kane nearly dominated most of the match but nonetheless I found this match entertaining- 3 stars

3. Cody rhodes vs. Damien sandow- these two didn't have nearly enough time but they worked with the time they had outstandingly and it's fun to see Cody doing different moves and it was nice to see a little swerve by cody taking the win and by no doubt he needed it more than damien, this match turned out to be very fun to watch and it definitely delivered- 3.25 stars

4. Christian vs. Alberto del rio: world heavyweight title- This match was good but it was a tad bit boring but it was good and we saw some great wrestling from both men and what else could we expect from these two great performers- 3.75 stars

5. Brie bella vs. Natalya- This was good for what it was I guess it's a shame someone as talented as natalya doesn't have the good matches she deserves but I guess it's because she doesn't have much to work with and I liked the nice little mini swerve with natalya winning instead of brie winning, who majority thought would win but all in all it was an alright match for a diva's match- 3 stars

6. Cm punk vs. Brock Lesnar- This match was great I enjoyed it very match and I believe that the best decision they could have made was making this no dq because the use of weapons really added to this match and made it the great match it was and this was by far brock's best match since he came back and one of the best of lesnar's career, my favorite part was punk's elbow with the steel chair-4.5 stars

7. Aj lee and Big E langston vs. dolph ziggler and kaitlyn- this match was short but the best solution for not having much time is making it quick paced and it was I enjoyed the parts with aj slapping ziggler and I enjoyed seeing big e langston in action but my favorite part was when kaitlyn speared aj, man did she sell that- 3.25 stars

8. Daniel Bryan vs. John Cena: wwe championship- This match in my opinion was match of the night and I enjoyed every part of it especially in the beginning when cena was trying to pin Bryan down, also the crowd was very active but the low point of this match was when cena botched that move off the top rope, i'm not sure what he was going for but it was brutal, some may consider the slap war unnecessary but I thought it added drama from the raw before the event and it's great to see cena step it up in this match- 4.75 stars

This ppv is the best ppv since money in the bank 2011 in my opinion and the final ranking is 4.5 stars out of 5


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Funniest part of EC was Punk spitting in Rock's face. That one had me rolling. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

CM Punk spitting on Rock and trying to get him disqualified was too funny. And then the crowd reaction when Rock wasn't getting up from the GTS/pinfall was hilarious. Man those matches were bad, but you could isolate so many good moments from them.

Batista/Big Show from ECW and Orton/Sheamus this year are also strong candidates. Eddie/Big Show from Smackdown too, but that was actually a good match.


----------



## austin316 G.O.A.T (Mar 13, 2010)

*Re: summerslam 2013 review*

All I can say it's the best Summerslam since 2002.


----------



## JAROTO (Nov 4, 2011)

*Re: summerslam 2013 review*

One of the best SS of all time. Only 2002 comes to my mind to give some competition.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Since you're here, did you deliver with what you promised? The weekend is almost over.


Just watched it!

First let me say that I had to watch 4 fucking advertisements throughout and the vid quality pretty much sucks, but I still watched it.  I didn't quite like it as much as you though. Do you know if Orton got legit knocked out on that shot to the ringpost? If not then holy shit he played that off like he was dead. I thought the match was pretty fun throughout but it kinda dragged when Orton was applying the body scissor. A little all over the place towards the end but good stuff and that finish was SICK. Always loved the way Rob sold Orton's offense. Probably go *** for it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Randy was legit knocked out from the ringpost shot so that was not part of the script. He claims RVD carried the match from that point on and he didn't get his "awareness" back until the end of the commercial break that followed the spot. From then on, it was all adrenaline. Which is probably why the match dragged and slowed down during the body-scissor part.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Randy was legit knocked out from the ringpost shot so that was not part of the script. He claims RVD carried the match from that point on and he didn't get his "awareness" back until the end of the commercial break that followed the spot. From then on, it was all adrenaline. Which is probably why the match dragged and slowed down during the body-scissor part.


I gotcha. That's pretty crazy then. Guy looked so out of it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't know if anyone's seen this from Thy Kingdom Come. Waiting to get the DVD Thursday since my Target gift card is at home and I'm away til then. Think I'll stay away from here until I watch to avoid being spoiled at all.




Taker :mark:
DDP :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok, I have been wondering this for two years now...what the fuck is a "Ryback" anyway? What does that even mean?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's what happens when you mix Bob Backlund with Zack Ryder.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> People were blown away by Ambrose/Kane? Blown away by the ability to put someone to sleep?


No, by the show itself


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Great write up by Yeah1993 as always (Y) I still don't quite understand ANY comparison, or indeed anyone, saying Ryback>Goldberg.

Now I read someone compared Ryback to Scott Steiner.

Get a grip people.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like both Goldberg & Ryback. Fuck everyone.

also, Big Bubba vs Hugh Morrus from Souled Out '97 is the greatest finish to a wrestler match in the history of the sport. Done deal.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Fuck the work week....

I have so much work to do tonight


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raw in Chicago tonight, hoping for another Bryan kickass match. Or for Punk to cut a mindblowing promo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We'll probably get both.

I can actually say that and almost be 90% sure it'll happen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Chicago, it's crazy to think Chitown never hosted a Royal Rumble.

Can y'all imagine the MADNESS of a Rumble match there? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not really. It's just a match in front of a crowd. No different than anything else.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dude, you tellin'me the Royal fucking Rumble is just another match like the others?

DUDE, YOU CRAZY.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's just a battle royal with specific entrances. A lot of them are only one or two moments and that's it. Not to mention painfully obvious at who would win.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, it's not JUST "a battle royal with specific entrances". It's the beggining of the RTWM, it's one of the most exciting matches in the calendar and it's not just one or two cool moments, there are many little things underneath that are awesome.

But who am I kidding, didn't you say here that you weren't a Rumble fan yourself?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bingo.

although the stretch seen from 2007 - 2009 was good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You must be one in a million, sir :side:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The past four/five Rumbles have been horrible, and I expect that trend to continue in the future simply because I just don't care anymore. Why should I care about a 30 man match when I only really care for 1/3 of the participants at the most. Especially if, like this year, the winner was ridiculously predictable.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly, the rumble matches have ALWAYS been like that. That's what I don't understand. People want to only claim it's a new problem. It's been there basically since forever. Always only been about those four - five guys for that specific year while the rest don't have a chance in hell.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Great write up by Yeah1993 as always (Y) I still don't quite understand ANY comparison, or indeed anyone, saying Ryback>Goldberg.
> 
> Now I read someone compared Ryback to Scott Steiner.
> 
> Get a grip people.


I was referencing Scott Steiner from 200-2003, not his glorious tag team stuff.

But yea maybe I went over board there, just trying to defend my man Ryback from all this hate hahaha.

One final note on Ryan Reeves, if you want to see a good model for a late blooming big man bruiser, look no further than the current best full time big man on the WWE roster, Mark Henry. He joined WWE around 1995 and really didn't become decent in the ring until 2005-2006 or so. He didn't become an all time great big man until 2010-2011. So it's not like its unprecedented for a guy of Ryback's size to finally get it after 10 years. He will never ever be in the league of a Brock Lesnar, but that doesn't mean he is destined to be awful.

He was involved in my personal 2012 MotY, the Hell No Ryback vs Shield TLC match. Look no further than that to see his potential, he has extensive time during that match and keeps ever single second entertaining.

Not everyone is as natural and quick a learner as Brock or Roman Reigns. I feel like in the next year or 2 a lot of people will be changing their tune on Mr. Reeves.....or he could totally bomb against Punk and I will look like a fool


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Another week of WCW, another gem of a match. This time, from one of the most random aligned tag matches I've witnessed.

Tom Zenk, Dustin Rhodes & Big Josh vs The York Foundation 11/16/91 Steel Cage

I think I was always going to like this match if it got some time, and it did. 14 and so minutes. Good spots, great back 'n' forth and always lively. I always thought they were going to work towards a hot tag sequence but that never came to fruitition. Would of been a cliché anyway and they went the ol' Southern route. Dustin shone out by making the most out of his tidbits in the ring, while Zenk & Rich took the backseat.

I do continue to not be able to buy Morton as a heel. His offence is subpar for the role and he can't dig out of deep to do a potential crowd popping sequence. I think Taylor should of held a bit more of the match, while he was the one getting the beatings from Dustin & Josh, he could of worked better over the match. But those are the only issues I have with it.

That in mind, gem. Great 14 minute match-up between people on the lower end of the card trying to show some purpose.


----------



## moazzam23 (Oct 25, 2011)

Rumble matches from the last 5 years were as good as any IMO. 2012 was the only stinker.


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

The problem IMO with the rumble is that it has lost so much prestige in the fact that in two years in a row the winner of the rumble was in the opening match of Wrestlemania (Del Rio & Sheamus). 

The brand split hurts it a bit too, because if you lose the rumble, there is another world title to chase.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'll always be a fan of Rumble matches. Gives lots of guys the chance to shine, you can get your crazy moments, surprise returns, and overall it's just an exciting and entertaining match to watch, especially live. Despite being a little disappointed by the last couple of Rumble matches, I'll always be excited for a Rumble match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Thoughts on the Hogan/Bossman Cage match?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on the Hogan/Bossman Cage match?


Second greatest Traylor match after the classic Hell in a Cell battle with DA UNDERTAKA!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He's says 2nd best after the Undertaker HIAC, but it's like how TNA is the #2 wrestling company in America compared to the WWE. There is like, a monstrously HUGE margin between them. Ain't nothing touching that HIAC match.

2 matches left to watch for my Fully Loaded 2000 ramble :mark:. Rest of the event has been fun no doubt, but I'm starting to doubt it'll quite match Backlash. Last 2 matches gonna make up a LOT of points though unless I somehow don't like them this time around, but I'm not certain that's gonna happen lol.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

ATF said:


> Thoughts on the Hogan/Bossman Cage match?


I'll assume you're talking their Cage match from Saturday Nights Main Event in '89 I think. It was a fun WWE style cage match; the atmosphere was great. The Superplex off the cage got a huge pop and Boss Man selling the straddled rope towards the end was hilarious. Boss Man and Slick heeling it up with Hogan fighting from under and naturally they didn't do anything fancy but they didn't need to so yeah nothing special but solid.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Callamus said:


> He's says 2nd best after the Undertaker HIAC, but it's like how TNA is the #2 wrestling company in America compared to the WWE. There is like, a monstrously HUGE margin between them. Ain't nothing touching that HIAC match.
> 
> 2 matches left to watch for my Fully Loaded 2000 ramble :mark:. Rest of the event has been fun no doubt, but I'm starting to doubt it'll quite match Backlash. Last 2 matches gonna make up a LOT of points though unless I somehow don't like them this time around, but I'm not certain that's gonna happen lol.


I actually didn't hate the Bossman/Taker HIAC. Sure, it's no great match or anything, but I thought it was kind of fun. Kind of disappointed that they cut the part where Edge and Christian hang Bossman from the cell after the match. That was wild.

Fully Loaded is so much fun. Triple main event delivers, and the opener is loads of fun. Also DAT BRADSHAW. Need to watch Backlash after your review. Haven't seen that straight though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

APA stuff was awesome. APA might be the FUNNEST tag team of all time. 2/3 of the triple main event are likely to deliver. The other one... well not so much .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I think I know what you're referring to, but I still enjoyed it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I love some APA, even their vignettes were wildly entertaining. But I dunno Cal, nothing beats Hell No for FUN stuff, atleast for me. The Goat flying around trying to prove he isn't the weak link while Kane just straight jacks dudes is always a recipe for entertainment, atleast for me. Even though they were only together for a little over a year, I still think I might have to give them top 5 status for favorite WWE tag teams. They just ruled on so many levels. I'm happy Bryan got the singles push he so rightfully deserved, but it does make me a little sad knowing I will probably never see them together ever again.


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

Speaking of APA...

*Bradshaw vs. Vader (9.27.1998)*
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi...-vs-bradshaw-falls-count-anywhere-match_sport

Review in 5 words or less: Ouch.
Full Review: Ouch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wish Vader got the chance to have more matches like that in WWE . Instead he only got like 3 or 4 at most.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

On the topic of fun vintages for tag teams, nothing in my opinion beats Goldust and Booker.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Guy said:


> On the topic of fun vintages for tag teams, nothing in my opinion beats Goldust and Booker.


Oh man that's a great one, I absolutely loved them, their tag against the Un Americans at SS might just be a top 30-40 favorite tag team match for me. Goldie and Book were just magic together.

Vader was one of the most under utilized guys WWE ever brought it. That had a massive dearth of talent in 1996, yet aside from the Final Four and SummerSlam (where he delivered in a big way both times) he wasn't used on top at all. I would have loved to see them do a full blown Mankind Vader feud and rekindle the magic from 1994. :mark:

My ultimate mark out moment for 2013 was definitely Bryan beating Cena clean with a running knee for the WWE title. For 2012? It was Vader returning and looking exactly the same in squashing Heath Slater in 3 minutes. God was that ever glorious. Long live Vader! Vader control segments where he just beats the ever loving shit out of people will always be one of my favorite things in all wrestling history.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

My ultimate mark out moment for 2013 was definitely this:









:mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wanna tap out to the Black Widow .


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

This is gonna be so awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Fully Loaded 2000*

It's finally here :mark:. Been excited to re-watch this show the entire time I've been watching 2000 PPV's lol. Can it live up to the HYPE~! or will it fall short? Can it take the #1 spot over BACKLASH? Only one way to find out!


*The Hardy Boys & Lita Vs T & A & Trish*

Mixed 6 person tag to start things off. LITA :mark:. TRISH :mark:. T & A :mark:. HARDY BOYS... well they're ok .

Entire build for this match is TRISH VS LITA lol. Hardys and T & A are... just here by association it seems lol. For the best, I doubt a PPV match in 2000 would have been good between the two ladies . FINLAY isn't in the company to train them yet.

:lmao Matt is a sloppy bastard in the early going. Botches like FUCK about 6 times in the space of 2 minutes. He was the balanced Hardy for a lot of years too, so surprising to see him fail so bad here .

LITA (FAP FAP FAP) is over like HELL. She's getting chants throughout the match just standing on the apron.

HUGE POP FOR TRISH as she tags in. I've popped huge for her in the past .

:lmao TRISH comes in, misses an elbow drop and runs away because LITA got tagged in. 

TRIPLE SUPLEX~!

Matt takes his top off. Jeff takes his off. LITA TAKES HER SHIRT OFF :mark:. BUSINESS IS ABOUT TO PICK UP. WELL, SOMETHING IS CERTAINLY UP ANYWAY. WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE.

MY PENIS.

Jeff gets fucking murdered. Almost literally when T & A attempt either a double back drop OR a double flapjack. I don't know and either does Jeff because he goes half and half and nearly lands on his fecking neck. Looked awesomely brutal though .

Crazy shit following a hot tag, then LITA tags in. TORNADO DDT ON TEST! CROSSBODY FROM THE TOP TO THE FLOOR ON ALBERT! LITACANRANA TO TEST! Almost wins the match for her team, then Albert cracks her in the back . Which is injured because of the table she went through and the beatings with the belt.

Gutwrench powerbomb to Lita . Trish gets the cover, but LITA KICKS OUT!

TRISH ON THE TOP ROPE! SLAP TO ALBERT. SUPERPLEX BY LITA!!!

MOONSAULT TO TRISH AND LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP GETS THE WIN! Wooo way to go LITA .

But it isn't over yet. T & A destroy The Hardy Boys and help Trish beat Lita with a leather belt some more. YOU LEAVE HER ALONE .

Tremendously awesomely super duper fun opener. Plus, you know, LITA AND TRISH. Good stuff!

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


UNDERTAKER :mark:. He shows up on his bike, asks if anyone has seen Kurt. Kurt randomly happens to be "over there" so Undertaker rides into the backstage area and chases down Angle on his bike! :lmao awesome.


*Tazz Vs Al Snow*

So Tazz has been going around attacking random people for no reason. We get a video package showing this. No sign of him attacking Snow. Which makes me wonder WHY this match is happening lol. He did attack RIKISHI a number of times... did that ever turn into anything? Probably just a Raw match lol.

Oh so apparently Al got choked out last week on Raw. Maybe they should have shown us THAT? No?

Short filler match here, with no real purpose or anything, BUT it's fun. Both guys just throw bombs at each other in an attempt to win, and since it isn't some big 20 minute main event (hai ROH), I'm honestly fine with them doing that lol. Fun to watch, and given the fact this match is based on practically nothing I think they did well.

Plus it was kinda cool to see Snow look like a somewhat legit guy in there for a change, especially with him countering and fighting the TAZZMISSION.

*Rating: *1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


CHRISTIAN IS VOMITING! Commissioner Foley is here to check up on him! The doctor doesn't think he can compete tonight. Looks like they won't have to defend their titles tonight against the APA .

STEPHANIE MCFAP :mark:. She gets a delivery of flowers. Not the first of the night it seems. HHH wonders who sent em. Steph thought it was him. So HHH decides to check the card. STEPHANIE, BEST OF LUCK TO YOU AND YOUR MAN TONIGHT. IT'S TRUE, IT'S TRUE. Kurt got some splaining to do!


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Perry Saturn - WWF European Championship Match*

Terri is out with Perry Saturn. She's the "horny little shedevil" apparently. Does that make Chyna the "horny big shemale"? 

Perry has certainly managed to fuck Eddie off in recent weeks, because Eddie is on fire early on and absolutely DOMINATES the bigger, stronger Perry Saturn. Even Chyna decks him with a clothesline that turns him inside out!

:lmao GOAT ring steps bump by Saturn. He BOUNCES off them into the barricade. Potential GIF material there. If so I should post it right under this .










Saturn really takes a beating here before finally getting a shot in, with a pretty sweeeeet POWERBOMB, but that alone isn't enough to gain full control as he needed to rest up afterwards and that allowed Eddie to recover and fire back still. Saturn even has a small puncture wound on top of his head lol.

Saturn keeps getting a couple of power moves in on Eddie, but Eddie keeps firing back over and over again. I quite like how Saturn never really get in control in this. Eddie is the champion after all, plus he's fighting for Chyna AND has Chyna outside for support. Saturn had Terri but she ran away right at the start of the match.

So how DID Saturn get back in control? First he CLOTHESLINED CHYNA THROUGH A TABLE, then Terri returned and helped him take Eddie down. Elbow drop and... this one is over. Just like that. And I actually liked it. Like I said, Eddie had everything going for him for the majority of the match, but once Saturn took Chyna out of the equation and Terri came back to ringside, he was able to quickly capitalise on the situation and win his first title in the WWF! Overall I quite liked this.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Foley catches Christian not being sick. Match is back on :mark:.

Undertaker says Angle will need a doctor to surgically remove his foot from his ass. LOL. Angle is then caught playing on Undertaker's bike :lmao. 'Taker chases after him.


*Edge & Christian Vs The APA - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

:mark: APA tag on PPV. And for the tag titles :mark:.

E&C have been trying to avoid the APA for weeks, right up to minutes before the match. But now they can't escape. The APA coming for you, WHITE BOYS.

Heel promo on Dallas, forcing the APA to come out and BRADSHAW to cut an emotional promo on Texas. Awesome stuff from Bradshaw, really proving he can go on the mic if he gets the chance.

DICK MURDOCH, BRUISER BRODY, VON ERICH'S AND FREEBIRDS get name dropped by Bradshaw :mark:. This is gonna fucking RULE.

Fuck me, right from the start it's INSANE. Farooq is just fucking everyone up with MULTIPLE shots to the face with the steel steps :mark:. 

SUPER FALLAWAY SLAM :mark:.

Bradshaw wants a powerbomb, but Edge keeps dropping to his knees to escape. So Bradshaw beats the shit out of him a few times then hits it anyway :lmao. He goes for a second but Christian comes off the ropes with a Crossbody to prevent it :mark:.

The tag champs try to isolate Bradshaw, but it don't last long. Hot tag to Farooq and HOLY FUCK at the destruction caused by the APA as they MURDER the champs with stiff shots, high impact moves and FINISHERS. Christian takes one hell of a CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL bump.

In the end Edge hits Farooq with the ring bell in plain sight to get DQ'd. Lose the match but retain the titles. APA kick the shit out of E&C all the way to the back.

:mark: this is awesome. I mean AWESOME. APA might very well be the funnest tag team EVER.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


HHH is pissed that "Kurt" is sending the flowers. So Stephanie (looking mighty fine) tells him to go see Kurt. Switch to Kurt and Undertaker is chasing him down. Angle attacks Undertaker with a wrench to the knee!


*Rikishi Vs Val Venis - WWF Intercontinental Championship Steel Cage Match*

This feud was pretty awesome and VIOLENT as hell for a mid-card feud. They've been battling for about 2 months, and probably would have had the blow off match sooner had the KOTR not been the previous PPV. Val had turned heel and joined TRISH and became vicious as fuck. Both guys bled after fighting each other numerous times. And Val threw Scotty off the stage at one point too. Well worthy of a CAGE.

Val seems to have no problem going FACE FIRST into the cage. Numerous times. In a row.

Seems odd to me that both men attempt to escape the cage VERY early on, given that this is a pretty HATE~! filled rivalry. But once they get past that slight stupidity, they stick with trying to murder each other and THEN try to win the IC title. 

GOOD GOD at the Clothesline from Val that turns Rikishi inside out. Impressive that Rikishi can do that spot no doubt, but always good when someone can hit a clothesline convincing enough of the spot. Val certainly mastered that lol.

Val tries to pin Rikishi to win the IC title but nothing works, so NOW he goes for some escapes, which make sense at this point. We get a few really good top rope battles out of this too tbh.

BONZAI~! Val gets his foot on the ropes. MONEY SHOT! Rikishi kicks out!

LITA LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP!!! SHE STRIPS TRISH AND WHIPS HER!

Val falls on poor Teddy Long. THIS WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IN A TAG MATCH, TEDDY! Rikishi manages to climb to the top... but instead of escaping he decides to punish Val some more. Just like his relative, Jimmy Snuka, RIKISHI HITS A SPLASH FROM THE TOP OF THE CAGE!!! Val is DEAD. 

The 'Kish crawls to the door, looks to escape and then BAM! Camera to the head by TAZZ! Rikishi is out, Val is able to make the cover and he gets the 3! Val is the NEW IC champion!

Good cage match. They have a pretty good fight here. Wait, Val was the champ going into this? Lol, thought Rikishi was. Maybe just because he was the IC champ the month before at KOTR . Anyway, Val retains the IC championship! Lots to like about this, and DAMN at the Rikishi bump. Amazing. Plus, LITA .

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


HHH is looking for Kurt. He catches the flower guy with more flowers. HHH demands he take him to the sender. Turns out it was CHRIS JERICHO, HHH's opponent tonight!

SHANE MCMAHON! He's out to call out The Rock and prove he isn't a pussy. Rock comes out expecting a trap. IT'S A TRAP. But Benoit is backstage destroying Rock's shitty wardrobe in an attempt to anger Rock, hopefully enough to get himself DQ'd later tonight and lose the WWF Title!


*The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle*

On a night with 3 main events, this is the first one. Not really on the same level as the other 2 lol. Angle, despite winning the KOTR, really doesn't scream MAIN EVENTER yet. And Undertaker wouldn't get back into the swing of things outside of a couple of matches until the end of 2001. Honestly I think they just named it a "main event" out of respect to The Undertaker and to give Angle a bit of notoriety as they were about to push the hell out of him.

Always remember the match with Undertaker and HHH on SD where Angle accidentally nails Undertaker with a sledgehammer. It was the first SD I ever saw :mark:. 

:lmao at Angle almost shitting himself when his pyro went off. He's pissed off the Dead Man and he's GONNA PAY. Undertaker doesn't even wait for his entrance, instead he comes down on his bike during Angle's entrance to take the fight to Kurt!

Undertaker is fucked off, and beats the shit out of Angle early on. He hits a couple of high impact moves, but keeps picking Kurt up after a 2 count. He also tells Time White to fuck off. He doesn't want to end this one quick. He wants to hurt him SLOOOOOW.

Angle is desperate, and he finds the opportunity to hit Undertaker in the knee again with the wrench! Undertaker keeps Angle at bay in the ring with some big right hands, but Angle is relentless in his attempt to go after the injured knee. He finally gets a chop block and Undertaker is down!

So Angle attacks the legs, Undertaker makes a comeback. :lmao at the referee on his knees ready to do a 3 count and begging Undertaker to cover Angle after the Chokeslam. The fuck, Tim White? 

LAST RIDE! And this one is over.

Decent match. They go on to have MUCH better matches. Later in the year at Survivor Series for starters. Undertaker's leg selling is... shoddy as fuck lol. Which is a shame because Undertaker IS one of the very best sellers in the fucking WORLD when he actually sells. But this was during a time when Undertaker really wasn't at the top of his game. Shame.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Triple H - Last Man Standing Match*

Jericho kissed STEPHANIE, but now has to go through a Last Man Standing match with HHH. Fair deal! 

I HEARD HE SHAVES ONE LEG SO WHEN HE GOES TO BED AT NIGHT IT FEELS LIKE HE'S SLEEPING WITH A WOMEN! :lmao

Jericho has the injured ribs following a sledgehammer shot last week. Earlier he attacked HHH and the moment the bell rings he goes all out to try and take the Game out as quick as possible in hopes that HHH won't get the chance to target the ribs. Unfortunately HHH gets the chance to target the ribs . I like BBQ Ribs.

So HHH is the heel of this program. Jericho is the face. The storyline is that Jericho keeps verbally abusing Stephanie and has forced himself on her a couple of times. HHH wants revenge. And is somehow the heel. :lmao

Fucking referee is an annoying cunt in this. He's ALWAYS getting in the way even though this is a fucking LAST MAN STANDING match. Object of the match is to practically KILL YOUR OPPONENT. The ref is there to count to 10 and NOTHING ELSE. So fuck off already dammit.

Great rib work by HHH. Great rib selling by Jericho. Great rib eating by me. OM NOM NOM RIBS.

LOOK AT STEPHANIE I THINK HE'S HAVING SOME EVIL THOUGHTS RIGHT NOW. I'm having evil thoughts looking at Stephanie .

Jericho gets brutalised but keeps getting up again and again. HHH is pissed. Then Jericho does a crotch job. So HHH hits a Pedigree. He's all cocky and lays down on the corner in the ropes because he thinks its all over... but JERICHO IS UP!

STEEL CHAIR~!

Fucking referee. He's spazzing out like a fucking spazzy twatty cunt. 

HHH goes for a Pedigree on the chair, but the fucking REFEREE again gets in the way and gives Jericho enough time to hit a low blow and get the chair for himself. Referee doesn't give a fuck as Jericho decks THE GAME in THE HEAD. I am confused that Jericho is the babyface in this story to begin with, but clearly having a fucking BIASED REFEREE helping him isn't helping me understand.

BLOOD~! DUB DUB EEEE NEED TO GO AWAY FROM TEH PEE GEE SO WE CAN GET BACK TEH BLUD.

So Jericho's ribs are still fucked, but now he has perhaps evened the playing field thanks to a biased referee and the chair shot to the head that has BUSTED HIM WIDE OPEN (HHH that is). Maybe Jericho can pull out the big "babyface" (LOL he's a heel) comeback!!!

PEDIGREE ON THE STEEL STEPS? :mark:

No . DAMN YOU JERICHO. Told you he was the heel in this. Everyone (ME) wanted to see that. But no, babyface Jericho couldn't allow it to happen. Pussy.

DOUBLE MONITOR SHOTS TO THE FACE~!

Awwwww Stephanie looks so cute being all upset and concerned while hiding behind a ring post.

WALLS OF JERICHO! HHH IS TAPPING!

The Game gets to the ropes, and the ref asks Jericho to break but he doesn't have to. Oh but earlier with the Abdominal Stretch by HHH he HAD to break the hold. Stephanie comes in for the save and that HEEL Jericho puts her in the Walls . HOW DARE HE. HHH runs at him from behind in the exact same way that would tear his quad a year later. 

SLEDGY THE SLEDGEHAMMER! Yeah I named it. It ends up buried (ha, get it?) right into the ribs of HHH!

Back body drop off the time keeper's table through the announce table! Both men are OUT! I bet they were supposed to do that from one announce table to the other, but Chyna getting CLOTHESLINED through it earlier fucked that spot up :lmao.

THE GAME manages to stand at 9 and he gets the win! The triumphant babyface victory! He beat the evil Jericho and got revenge for his beautiful wife! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Match is awesome. Tremendous. Excellent. Best LMS match by quite a large margin. Closet to it would be the NM 07 HHH/Orton match (FUCK Umaga/Cena). I do still find it odd that HHH is the heel and Jericho is the babyface . Finish is a total babyface "battling the odds" and coming out on top win too :lmao. YO STEPHANIE, I DID IT!

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*


*The Rock Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Championship Match*

Benoit looks snazzy in a torn up Rock shirt. As does Shane with those sunglasses. They just need that WWF Championship with them too...

If The Rocks gets himself DQ'd here, he WILL lose the WWF Title! Go on Rock, get DQ'd :mark:.

Oh man, LOVE how they do the spot with Rock chasing Shane so he runs into the ring and you just KNOW Benoit is gonna cut him off... except Rock clotheslines Benoit and keeps on running after Shane!!!

SHANE'S A PUSSY chants. What do we get these days? Walrus chants at Heyman from time to time? 

Lawler: "I wanna apologise right now to the people at home watching this for this crude language coming from these fans here in Dallas."

JR: "I wanna apologise to the fans at home for The King being the biggest butt kisser for the McMahons that ever sat out here!"

:lmao god I LOVE JR and Lawler's back and forth shit. Not just in this match or this show, but fuck, every PPV just has so much pure GOLD. Can you imagine if the show structure was the same back in the day with Heenan and Monsoon? How much gold could we have gotten from them with a weekly 2 hour show like Raw and then 12 PPV's a year? :mark:

Benoit does a good job of controlling The Rock, but even then The Rock isn't giving up. So Shane throws in the title belt and distracts the referee so Benoit can deck Rock in the FACE with it. Doesn't work though .

How AWESOME are Benoit's back suplexes?

SHARPSHOOTER! EARL HENBER! CANADIAN WHO TRAINED WITH THE HART FAMILY! MCMAHON AT RINGSIDE! Bah, no screw job, Rock doesn't lose the title that way .

JR: WHY DO YOU EMBARRASS YOURSELF BY SAYING *STUPID* THINGS LIKE THAT THAT AREN'T TRUE?" :lmao

Shane is pretty superb on the outside. Always busy, always doing something, and is a HUGE difference maker a number of times in the match.

:lmao Rock steals a fan's beer to throw at Benoit, and it splashes on another fan who CHEERS at the fact he got splashed with beer by Benoit and The Rock :lmao.

Rock is really good in this too (was about to put great but then thought fuck it  ). I like how his comeback attempts aren't just a couple of punches or a shitty clothesline, but some big impactful move. Like the powerbomb attempt that end up dropping Benoit neck first into the ropes, or him hitting a spinebuster and getting a People's Elbow in without hesitation because he realises he may not get another chance with a guy like Benoit.

But as good as Shane is on the outside and Rock is on the inside, BENOIT is the fucking KING in this one. His offence is impeccable. He just looks like he SHOULD be the WWF champion. And of course he sells all of Rock's shit perfectly and cuts him off well every time too.

And then when it becomes clear that maybe, just maybe Rock isn't going to lose, Shane and Benoit set Rock up BEAUTIFULLY for a DQ! Rock applies a Crossface, the ref gets back up and calls for the bell... and BENOIT is named the NEW WWF CHAMPION!!! Shane then cracks Rock in the face with a chair and busts him open too, just for the fecking hell of it .

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Ahh damn it. Foley comes out and says he didn't see a DQ and neither did the fans, so this match is restarting .

GERMAN SUPLEX ON A PAPER CUP! Yes, fans actually threw shit in the ring! No doubt after Foley restarted this match and claimed that Benoit wasn't champion :side:.

CROSSFACE! Rock is gonna lose the title anyway, and he's gonna lose it clean! Screw you, Foley! Benoit is gonna be champion whether you like it or not dammit!

Bah, Rock escapes. Rock Bottom. Rock wins .

So aside from the shitty finish (happens a lot in Rock matches...), this was awesome. 

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 20.5*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great review, Cal. No doubt BENOIT vs ROCK is a classic. Fucking Foley had to ruin the fun. 

At least the visual of Benoit being a WWF/E Champion will always exist.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Great review, Cal. No doubt BENOIT vs ROCK is a classic. Fucking Foley had to ruin the fun.


Foley ruining the Benoit win is how most of us felt at SS when HHH screwed Bryan and Orton won the belt  .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Never seen that PPV, actually (was on wrestling hiatus during that time), but it sounds amazing from opener to the finish.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Foley ruining the Benoit win is how most of us felt at SS when HHH screwed Bryan and Orton won the belt  .


At least Bryan has many years to go and will definitely get a proper run later on. Benoit got a sympathy reign with the other belt which they've devalued the shit out of and now the reign & title are getting buried with every MITB cash-in from midcard guys they spend months jobbing the shit out of. 

ARGH, FUCK YOU WWE!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't believe they did the Benoit WWF Champion swerve TWICE on PPV in 2000. Bastards . Should have resulted in a Foley Vs Benoit match at least .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> At least Bryan has many years to go and will definitely get a proper run later on. Benoit got a sympathy reign with the other belt which they've devalued the shit out of and now the reign & title are getting buried with every MITB cash-in from midcard guys they spend months jobbing the shit out of.
> 
> ARGH, FUCK YOU WWE!


I would be laughing at how perfectly you put that if I weren't crying inside about how true what you said is. Never forget, WWE are a bunch of stupid cunts and have no fucking clue what they are doing half the time. The other half makes it all worth caring so much.

And Cal, brilliant review, dare I say your best that I've read :clap:clap:clap

Love that PPPv, although I don't have Jericho trips quite as high as you, it's still my favorite LMS match, Foley vs Rocky is second. And Orton/Trips is a very close third. Taker vs Batista is 4th. All are brilliant though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWF 2000 PPV on the CAL SCALE:

Backlash - 25
Fully Loaded - 20.5
Judgement Day - 17
Royal Rumble - 17
Unforgiven - 15
King of the Ring - 14.5
No Way Out - 13.5
SummerSlam - 13
WrestleMania 16 - 10
Rebellion - 9
Insurrextion - 7.5
No Mercy - 7
Survivor Series - 6
Armageddon - 4

Poor Armageddon. Terrible outside of the main event. Backlash remains the KING and is the 2nd highest rated PPV on the CAL SCALE behind WM 19. Fully Loaded fell a little short and it's tied for 3rd with WM 22 (WM 17 in second). Of course the only shows I've rated with the CAL SCALE are all the WM's and RR's and now the 2000 PPV's . Oh, and No Mercy 2008 which started my recent ramblings.

All the PPV matches ranked in order from worst to best:



Spoiler: WWF 2000 PPV Match Rankings



The Kat Vs Terri Runnels - NO - -1 (WrestleMania 16)
Chyna Vs Val Venis - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Ivory Vs Trish Stratus Vs Molly Holly - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
William Regal Vs Naked Mideon - Too distubring to rate - 0 (No mercy)
The Kat Vs Terri Vs Luna Vs Ivory Vs Jacqueline Vs B.B. Vs Mae Young - DUD - 0 (Royal Rumble)
The Kat Vs Terri - DUD - 0 (Insurrextion)
The British Bulldog Vs Crash Holly - DUD - 0 (Insurrextion)
The Dudley Boys Vs Rikishi & The Big Show - 1/4* - 0 (Insurrextion)
Ivory Vs Lita - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Billy Gunn Vs Chris Benoit - 1/4* - 0 (Armageddon)
Tazz Vs The Big Bossman - 1/4* - 0 (No Way Out)
The Dudley Boys Vs The New Age Outlaws - 1/4* - 0 (No Way Out)
Chris Jericho Vs Kane - 1/2* - 0 (Armageddon)
Steve Austin Vs Triple H - 1/2* - 0 (Survivor Series)
William Regal Vs Hardcore Holly - 1/2* - 0 - (Armageddon)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - 1/2* - 0 (WrestleMania 16)
2 Cool Vs Lo Down Vs Tazz & Raven Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Right to Censor - 1/2* - 0 (No Mercy)
Chyna & Billy Gunn Vs Eddie Guerrero & Dean Malenko - 1/2* - 0 (Rebellion)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Dean Malenko Vs Perry Saturn - 1/2* - 0 (Judgment Day)
T&A & Trish Stratus Vs Steve Blackman, Crash Holly & Molly Holly - 1/2* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Bull Buchanan Vs Kane - 1/2* - 0 (Insurrextion)
Edge & Christian & The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs The Dudley Boys & The Hardy Boys - 1/2* - 0 (Survivor Series)
The Kat Vs Terri - * - 0 (SummerSlam)
Chyna Vs Chris Jericho Vs Hardcore Holly - * - 0 (Royal Rumble)
Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn Vs 2 Cool & Chyna - * - 0 (WrestleMania 16)
Billy Gunn & Chyna Vs Val Venis & Steven Richards - * - 0 (No Mercy)
The Hardy Boys Vs Los Conquistadors - * - 0 (No Mercy)
Road Dogg, K-Kwik, Billy Gunn & Chyna Vs The Radicals - * - 0 (Survivor Series)
Mark Henry Vs Viscera - * - 0 (No Way Out)
The Hardy Boys & Lita Vs The Radicals - * - 0 (Armageddon)
Kurt Angle Vs Triple H - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Triple H Vs Chris Benoit - * 0 - (No Mercy)
Crash Holly Vs Bull Buchanan - *1/4 - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
Tazz Vs Al Snow - *1/4 - 0.5 (Fully Loaded)
William Regal Vs Hardcore Holly - *1/2 - 0.5 (Survivor Series)
Road Dogg & X-Pac Vs Kane & Rikishi - *1/2 - 0.5 (WrestleMania 16)
The Rock Vs Triple H Vs Kurt Angle - *1/2 - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
Jerry "The King" Lawler Vs Tazz - *1/2 - 0/5 (Unforgiven)
Ivory Vs Lita - *3/4 - 0.5 (Rebellion)
D-Lo Brown & The Godfather Vs The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan - *3/4 - 0.5 (WrestleMania 16)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Essa Rios - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
Road Dogg Vs Bradshaw - ** - 0.5 (Insurrextion)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Rikishi - ** - 0.5 (Unforgiven)
The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs The Hardy Boys - ** - 0.5 (Rebellion)
Rikishi & 2 Cool Vs Right to Censor - ** - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ** - 0.5 (No Way Out)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - ** - 0.5 (Insurrextion)
Crash Holly Vs Kurt Angle - ** - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
Kurt Angle Vs Tazz - ** - 0.5 (Royal Rumble)
Road Dogg Vs X-Pac - ** - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
Pat Patterson Vs Gerald Brisco - ** - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - ** - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
2 Cool Vs Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko - ** - 0.5 (Insurrextion)
The New Age Outlaws Vs APA - ** - 0.5 (Royal Rumble)
William Regal Vs Crash Holly - **1/4 - 1 (Rebellion)
Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boys Vs The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan Vs Road Dogg & K-Kwik - **1/2 - 1 (Armageddon)
The Dudley Boys Vs X-Pac, Road Dogg & Tori - **1/2 - 1 (King of the Ring)
The Dudley Boys & APA Vs Right to Censor - **1/2 - 1 (Unforgiven)
Crash Holly Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Tazz Vs Perry Saturn Vs Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy - **1/2 - 1 (Backlash)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Jericho - **1/2 - 1 (No Way Out)
Rikishi Vs Chris Benoit - **1/2 - 1 (King of the Ring)
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - **1/2 - 1 (Fully Loaded)
The Big Bossman & Bull Buchanan Vs The APA - **1/2 - 1 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs Kane - **1/2 - 1 (SummerSlam)
Val Venis & Trish Stratus Vs Eddie Guerrero & Chyna - **3/4 - 1 (SummerSlam)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Val Venis - **3/4 - 1 (King of the Ring)
Rikishi Vs The Rock - **3/4 - 1 (Survivor Series)
Jerry "The King" Lawler Vs Tazz - **3/4 - 1 (SummerSlam)
X-Pac Vs Kane - **3/4 - 1 (No Way Out)
Kane Vs Chris Jericho - **3/4 - 1 (Rebellion)
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - **3/4 - 1 (Insurrextion)
15 Minute Time Limit Hardcore Battle Royal - **3/4 - 1 (WrestleMania 16)
Perry Saturn Vs Steve Blackman - **3/4 - 1 (Rebellion)
Al Snow & Steve Blackman Vs T & A - **3/4 - 1 (WrestleMania 16)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Perry Saturn - *** - 2 (Fully Loaded)
Chris Jericho Vs X-Pac - *** - 2 (No Mercy)
Edge & Christian Vs 2 Cool Vs T&A Vs The Hardy Boys - *** - 2 (King of the Ring)
Rikishi Vs Kurt Angle - *** - 2 (King of the Ring)
Rikishi Vs Val Venis - *** - 2 (King of the Ring)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - *** - 2 (Royal Rumble)
T&A Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Steve Blackman Vs Al Snow Vs Crash Holly Vs Perry Saturn Vs Test Vs Funaki - *** - 2 (Unforgiven)
2 Cool & Rikishi Vs Chris Benoit, Dean Malenko & Perry Saturn - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
2 Cool & Rikishi Vs Edge & Christian & Kurt Angle - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
Edge & Christian Vs The APA - *** - 2 (Fully Loaded)
Chris Benoit Vs The Undertaker - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Kurt Angle Vs Rikishi Vs The Rock Vs Steve Austin - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Shane McMahon Vs Steve Blackman - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
Road Dogg & X-Pac Vs The Dudley Boys - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
The Rock Vs Triple H Vs Shane McMahon - *** - 2 (Insurrextion)
The Rock Vs Kurt Angle - ***1/4 - 2 (No Mercy)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4 - 2 (King of the Ring)
The Hardy Boys & Lita Vs T & A & Trish - ***1/4 - 2 (Fully Loaded)
The Big Show Vs Shane McMahon - ***1/4 - 2 (Judgment Day)
Kane Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/4 - 2 (Survivor Series)
Triple H Vs Mick Foley Vs The Rock Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 - 2 (WrestleMania 16)
The Rock Vs The Big Show - ***1/4 - 2 (No Way Out)
Edge & Christian Vs X-Pac & Road Dogg - ***1/4 - 2 (Backlash)
The Undertaker, Kane & The Rock Vs Triple H, Shane McMahon & Vince McMahon - ***1/4 - 2 (King of the Ring)
Rikishi Vs Val Venis - ***1/4 - 2 (Fully Loaded)
The Undertaker Vs The Rock Vs Kane Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4 - 2 (Unforgiven)
The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ***1/2 - 3 (Insurrextion)
Steve Austin Vs Rikishi - ***1/2 - 3 (No Mercy)
Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker - ***1/2 - 3 (Survivor Series)
Dean Malenko Vs Scotty 2 Hotty - ***3/4 - 4 (Backlash)
Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - ***3/4 - 4 (Judgment Day)
X-Pac Vs Chris Jericho - ***3/4 - 4 (Unforgiven)
The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys - ***3/4 - 4 (Royal Rumble)
The Dudley Boys Vs T & A - ***3/4 - 4 (Backlash)
Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - **** - 5 (Backlash)
Kurt Angle Vs The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin Vs Rikishi Vs Triple H Vs The Rock - **** - 5 (Armageddon)
Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys - **** - 5 (Unforgiven)
Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys - ****1/4 - 6 (SummerSlam)
The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania 16)
Chris Benoit Vs The Rock - ****1/2 - 7 (Fully Loaded)
Triple H Vs The Rock - ****1/2 - 7 (Backlash)
Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - ****1/2 - 7 (No Way Out)
Triple H Vs The Rock - ****1/2 - 7 (Judgment Day)
Triple H Vs Chris Jericho - ****3/4 - 8 (Fully Loaded)
Triple H Vs Cactus Jack - ****3/4 - 8 (Royal Rumble)



PPV Wrestler of the Year? Well DUH. HHH. Good GOD. He's in the entire top 5 lol. Props to E&C, Hardys, Dudleys, Rock, Jericho, Foley (only 3 PPV's matches but 2 in the top 5) and Benoit too. But as good as HHH was, he also had some real fucking STINKERS on PPV as well lol. The Benoit NM match, Angle UF, SSeries with Austin and the SS Triple Threat were just plain BAD. So it was definitely a rollercoaster year for him in quality, but his quality stuff was THAT DAMN GOOD that he is unquestionably the King of PPV for 2000. Though given the consistency overall of E&C, Hardys and Dudley's, they could easily slot into that position and I couldn't really argue against it. Same for The Rock. They had less garbage than HHH, and in the tag team's case they had way less opportunities to steal the show than HHH did.

Overall, 2000 is a very good year for PPV still. Some really high end quality matches, some top quality PPV's overall, and most importantly to me perhaps, it was so damn FUN. Even some of the lesser rated PPV's had a lot of fun to them. There is a reason 2000 is my favourite year of all time.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Can some kind fella (or lass, but hey, let's face it...that's unlikely) give me a real quick spoiler free review of Night Of champions? I'm yet to check it out and i need to know whether it's worth it or not. 

Cheers!


----------



## Mr.Limelight (Dec 10, 2011)

2000 is the year I got into wrestling  fond memories of it. I'm sure Royal Rumble 00 is the first bit of wrestling I ever saw and must of been hooked ever since.

Had a lot of memories reading your reviews mate, any plans to do any other years?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sgt. Pepper said:


> Can some kind fella (or lass, but hey, let's face it...that's unlikely) give me a real quick spoiler free review of Night Of champions? I'm yet to check it out and i need to know whether it's worth it or not.
> 
> Cheers!


NOC 2013: Shite. Avoid everything.

Well, main event is decent. But nothing beyond that. Parts of the Punk match are worth seeing. EVERYTHING else is just terrible.



Mr.Limelight said:


> 2000 is the year I got into wrestling  fond memories of it. I'm sure Royal Rumble 00 is the first bit of wrestling I ever saw and must of been hooked ever since.
> 
> Had a lot of memories reading your reviews mate, any plans to do any other years?


Might do 2001 at some point .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Sgt. Pepper said:


> Can some kind fella (or lass, but hey, let's face it...that's unlikely) give me a real quick spoiler free review of Night Of champions? I'm yet to check it out and i need to know whether it's worth it or not.
> 
> Cheers!


RVD vs Del Rio is ok, not amazing but definitely quality, Bryan vs Orton was pretty good, the Heyman portion of the handicap match was glorious, the rest can get fucked and die. Seriously everything other than what I listed was awful, NoC was almost a complete abortion as a PPV.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Callamus said:


> NOC 2013: Shite. Avoid everything.
> 
> Well, main event is decent. But nothing beyond that. Parts of the Punk match are worth seeing. EVERYTHING else is just terrible.


Thanks Cal.
I'll check out the D-bry fight. 

WWE needs to up their game by the sounds of it. Are they missing Cena?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sgt. Pepper said:


> Thanks Cal.
> I'll check out the D-bry fight.
> 
> WWE needs to up their game by the sounds of it. Are they missing Cena?


Not missing Cena, missing SHEAMUS.

A lot of it seems to be them putting good wrestlers against shitty opponents. RVD gets the title shot against Del Rio? Urgh. Orton the champ against Danielson? Urgh. Curtis Axel against anyone? URGH.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Not missing Cena, missing SHEAMUS.
> 
> A lot of it seems to be them putting good wrestlers against shitty opponents. RVD gets the title shot against Del Rio? Urgh. Orton the champ against Danielson? Urgh. Curtis Axel against anyone? URGH.



Hahahahaha Curtis Axel. What's he even doing there?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sgt. Pepper said:


> Hahahahaha Curtis Axel. What's he even doing there?


Fuck knows lol. And he's the IC champ :lmao. At least right now he's been demoted to pushing Heyman around in a wheelchair 8*D. You'll find out more by watching the PPV, don't wanna spoil that part for ya lol. Even if it's a shitty spoiler .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Sgt. Pepper said:


> Hahahahaha Curtis Axel. What's he even doing there?


Hi. 


When is Sheamus due back, anyway?

The main storyline has been great, but the rest of the roster seems to lack direction. Almost everyone worthwhile is caught up in the main event feud, and the midcard is just kinda there. They have plenty of talent, but when half of each Raw is dedicated to the main event, the rest of the roster seems to get lost in the shuffle/thrown into random feuds.


----------



## Sgt. Pepper (Nov 12, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Fuck knows lol. And he's the IC champ :lmao. At least right now he's been demoted to pushing Heyman around in a wheelchair 8*D. You'll find out more by watching the PPV, don't wanna spoil that part for ya lol. Even if it's a shitty spoiler .


Yeah i'll get round to it tomorrow. Cheers chaps!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal's review of Fully Loaded was almost identical to mine. Lower the love on the LMS and increase the love on Snow vs Tazz and that's it.

I sure as hell wouldn't call Triple H the best wrestler of 2000 either. No chance in hell. And that's supposedly his best year too :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

^ 

You used to pimp his 2000 all the time, and you don't even like him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nostalgia permits a lot to look better than you remember. Besides, I never said he was the best worker of the year either when I said I liked some of his matches. God, I've never thought that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal's review of Fully Loaded was almost identical to mine. Lower the love on the LMS and increase the love on Snow vs Tazz and that's it.
> 
> I sure as hell wouldn't call Triple H the best wrestler of 2000 either. No chance in hell. And that's supposedly his best year too :lmao


I have no idea who would be the overall best wrestler of 2000. He's just the best PPV wrestler of the year. Fuck knows who it would be overall with TV stuff included. I only got about 5 months into watching Raw & SD . And tbh I would probably need to start again now lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit is leaping out like a motherfucker just off the top of my head. It's funny, I remember liking a lot of Rock matches on PPV, but some were vs Triple H so does that count for both? I really need to see Backlash & Judgment Day again. Trips work at the end takes a major dip for me. The Foley & Rock matches were good. Plus, I'm one of the only people around who digs the nutty SummerSlam three way.

Skip 2000 TV atm and do 2001 PPV reviews :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I like the three way too. 

Yes, I don't think I've seen a single 2001 PPV oustide of WM so those reviews would be much appreciated.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I shall indeed do the 2001 PPV's next . Got the UK ones downloading atm, and then KOTR, and I need No Mercy too, and I've already done WM & RR, but I have NWO, BL, JD, SS, SS, UF and Vengeance I can watch straight away . THE WORLD WILL KNOW MY LOVE FOR BACKLASH 2001.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Cal's review of Fully Loaded was almost identical to mine. Lower the love on the LMS and increase the love on Snow vs Tazz and that's it.
> 
> I sure as hell wouldn't call Triple H the best wrestler of 2000 either. No chance in hell. And that's supposedly his best year too :lmao


I think 2000 was Trips best year, but no I don't think he was the best wrestler in WWE. There has never been 1 year Triple H would be in either the 1 or 2 or 3 spots as best wrestler in WWE. Chris Benoit was better in 2000 throughout the entire year even if he missed the first 2-3 months while he was in WCW.

Just watch Jeffy Hardy vs CM Punk Smackdown Cage match, loser leaves WWE. Remember how I was complaining about the way Trips/Brock built their ER cage match and how it drove me crazy? (Well you probably don't because you don't care but bear with me). Anyways, everything Brock and Trips did wrong in that match, Punk and Jeff did right. What a match this was. They beautifully blended the match between a hard fought struggle inside steel with the excitement of the escape. This was the final match in their terrific series, and they are just throwing everything at each other to tr and in the title AND their jobs. Top of cage super plexes, whisper in the wind, swanton, everything they have and it's not enough. Finally Punk climbs to the top, Jeff gives chase, and Punk sits at the top long enough to bash Jeff brains in and causing him to fall off the top and Punk to secure the victory.

This is the best match these two ever had in my opinion, and that's high praise because outside of 1 I enjoyed ALL of their matches to some extent. I can't fathom how they pulled this off just 4 days after that brutal TLC match. ****1/4 from me. One of Punks top 20 matches in WWE.

Edit-Shit Hayley beat me to the Benoit comment, that's what I get for typing essay length posts on a tablet


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> I think 2000 was Trips best year, but no I don't think he was the best wrestler in WWE. There has never been 1 year Triple H would be in either the 1 or 2 or 3 spots as best wrestler in WWE. *Chris Benoit was better in 2000 throughout the entire year even if he missed the first 2-3 months while he was in WCW.*


Benoit showed up at like, the end of Jan/Beginning of Feb . He only missed the first month being in WCW .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Benoit showed up at like, the end of Jan/Beginning of Feb . He only missed the first month being in WCW .


Really? I thought I remember him showing up like a month before Mania and being thrown into that excellent feud with Jericho? Huh, guess I was wrong. Wonder what his first WWE match was? You have any idea?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

His first match was against HHH if I'm not mistaken. Throughout the night all the Radicals had matches against DX to gain a job. Malenko Vs X-Pac, Guerrero & Saturn Vs The Outlaws, and Benoit Vs HHH.

And they feuded with 2 Cool and Rikishi first . DID YOU NOT READ MY NWO REVIEW?!?!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I like the three way too.
> 
> Yes, I don't think I've seen a single 2001 PPV oustide of WM so those reviews would be much appreciated.


I got nearly every PPV from the year at my place. Come on over. 

But really, you HAVE to see SummerSlam 2001. Fabulous show. Surely you've seen Austin vs Angle at least, right?



Callamus said:


> I shall indeed do the 2001 PPV's next . Got the UK ones downloading atm, and then KOTR, and I need No Mercy too, and I've already done WM & RR, but I have NWO, BL, JD, SS, SS, UF and Vengeance I can watch straight away . THE WORLD WILL KNOW MY LOVE FOR BACKLASH 2001.


Haven't seen Backlash in ages. _(one of the few I don't have_ 8*D) I dread having to see Benoit vs Angle out of fear that thirty minutes is much too long, but matches like Raven vs Rhyno, Dudleys vs X-Factor, & Power Trip vs BOD are :mark: iirc. Scrap that last statement for Raven vs Rhyno. I know that's forever awesome.



Cactus Jack said:


> Just watch Jeffy Hardy vs CM Punk Smackdown Cage match, loser leaves WWE. Remember how I was complaining about the way Trips/Brock built their ER cage match and how it drove me crazy? (Well you probably don't because you don't care but bear with me). Anyways, everything Brock and Trips did wrong in that match, Punk and Jeff did right. What a match this was. They beautifully blended the match between a hard fought struggle inside steel with the excitement of the escape. This was the final match in their terrific series, and they are just throwing everything at each other to tr and in the title AND their jobs. Top of cage super plexes, whisper in the wind, swanton, everything they have and it's not enough. Finally Punk climbs to the top, Jeff gives chase, and Punk sits at the top long enough to bash Jeff brains in and causing him to fall off the top and Punk to secure the victory.


I love both matches. :hayley3

if I had to rank em, tho, Punker vs Jeff would def be higher. That's pretty much like my favorite steel cage match ever. It's perfect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Benoit/Angle 30 Minute Ultimate Submission match has always been my favourite between the two. No idea if it'll hold up but I can live in hope.

Rhyno Vs Raven is indeed :mark:. Don't forget Show/Shane LMS :mark:. CRAZY HARDCORE FUN~!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> I got nearly every PPV from the year at my place. Come on over.


 Would be down.



> But really, you HAVE to see SummerSlam 2001. Fabulous show. Surely you've seen Austin vs Angle at least, right?


:side:

I think the only thing I've seen from 2001 aside from WM is the NWO Austin/HHH match and the S. Series invasion elimination tag.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I got nearly every PPV from the year at my place. Come on over.
> 
> But really, you HAVE to see SummerSlam 2001. Fabulous show. Surely you've seen Austin vs Angle at least, right?
> 
> ...


It makes my top 10 for sure, probably top 5. My favorite and the standard for what I believe a blood feud that ends in a cage should be is Tully vs Magnum I Quit at Starrcade. I'm guessing as the mega wrestling fan you are, you've seen it, but if not I strongly urge you to watch. It's on the Top 25 rivalries set. It's one of the most realistic, brutal, violent, captivating, and entertaining things I've ever witnessed.

Edit- Lady Killer, SS01' is great, Austin vs Angle is in my top 5 for both guys all time. It's perfect. Angles baby face performance in it is almost second to none, and Austin is fucking psychotic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Been playing gta 5 for the last 4 hours, forgot how the sun looks already,

Punk/hardy Cage is truly marvelous, that and flair vs. hhh/orton are the best/favorite IMO

ok back to the game


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think the only one I'll like from them is WM 17. Oh, and the cage match b/c I like the nutty SPOTZ. Total guilty pleasure and idc.

Shane vs Show is a total blur, but I fully expect it's the best. Except the finish, which wasn't the best for Shane. How do you miss a giant? How I say?! At least the one on Kane years later would work. ~!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao just looked at my Raw & SD 2000 reviews to see when Benoit's first match was and to check it was definitely against HHH (It was; SD Feb 3rd 2000 btw). Gave it ***1/2 and said it wasn't as good as their No Mercy match later in the year :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Would be down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh man. It's one of the best matches ever. You have to see it. Without a doubt the best from Angle and my favorite from both. _(Austin ties with the Dude Love match from Over the Edge, but still. GOLD)_

Wished NWO 2001 was put on DVD. It may have been in the UK, but it wasn't in the States. Frustrating.



Cactus Jack said:


> It makes my top 10 for sure, probably top 5. My favorite and the standard for what I believe a blood feud that ends in a cage should be is Tully vs Magnum I Quit at Starrcade. I'm guessing as the mega wrestling fan you are, you've seen it, but if not I strongly urge you to watch. It's on the Top 25 rivalries set. It's one of the most realistic, brutal, violent, captivating, and entertaining things I've ever witnessed.


Ha. And just like that, you remind me of what the best cage match really is. 

on a whim I couldn't be hard pressed to think about it. All that came up was the Final Conflict tag to rival Punker vs Hardy. Meanwhile, I'm a big fan of both Magnum & Tully letting it slip my mind...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> :lmao just looked at my Raw & SD 2000 reviews to see when Benoit's first match was and to check it was definitely against HHH (It was; SD Feb 3rd 2000 btw). Gave it ***1/2 and said it wasn't as good as their No Mercy match later in the year :lmao.


Ok you definitely win Mr. know it all 

Still, being that you've watched most if not all of 2000, that year HAS to go to Benoit, am I right? The guy was never not in the top 2 for wrestler of the year in WWE for every year he was active 2000-2005 (minus in 2001- 2002 when he was out with the neck).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

TLK you still havent seen angle/scsa ss 01 :lmao c'mon man


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He'll say it was worth it once he's living the sweet life & we're stuck doing nothing but watching wrestling well into our twilight years...

:tlk


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:tlk

I'm sure I'll get around to it at some point. It's on my ever-growing list of wrestling stuff to see.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao its true He is the cool Greg , while I'm the wrestling watching til twilight years of my life, that the only kick in life comes from 800-1100 on Mondays Greg why me


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Once I finish my work I'm putting on this budget DB set I have thats still in the wrapping, its only like an hour long ut it has his NXT debut against Jericho, his MITB match, his US title win, and a couple RAW matches against Henry! 

Oh and it has the RR triple threat on there too.....


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Ok you definitely win Mr. know it all
> 
> Still, being that you've watched most if not all of 2000, that year HAS to go to Benoit, am I right? The guy was never not in the top 2 for wrestler of the year in WWE for every year he was active 2000-2005 (minus in 2001- 2002 when he was out with the neck).


I only got to the end of May with the 2000 reviews (though I had already seen the entire year again when I bought Raw on DVD and downloaded SD), and honestly it was that long ago and I wasn't paying THAT much attention to who was doing better than who, so fuck knows . I'll maybe go through the TV shows when I finish the 01 PPV's. And do the 01 TV shows too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Speaking of, forgot RAW was on tonight. 8*D

still have to watch Smackdown. It looked so crappy I've held off on it. Doesn't help that I'll be watching Football in a few hours too...tonight is gonna be long.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Idk why you're watching MNF - you know Peyton is gonna fuck Oakland in the ASS. :hb

As for Raw, should be decent with it being in Chicago (hot crowd) and Punk returning. Don't care much about the Heyman storyline anymore, though. Only thing worthwhile for me atm is the main event plotline.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nothing really happened, I decided to rewatch punk/lesnar instead of shield vs usos/bryan. Randy hears voices again and hated us fans all along these past couple of years.


I'd be surprised if the raiders score more than 14 points tbhayley


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll still try the first half and see if Oakland can look half way decent on offense. Woodson or not, the defense doesn't stand a chance vs Denver. No team does.

I'm gonna watch Smackdown before. I'll cram it like I normally do. Or not. But it'll be watched. Hope Titus in the gauntlet got to throw around Rollins & Ambrose before being stopped. Has potential there. But then they kill it by having Kofi do better than anyone else b/c he's "later in the match". Oh you guys and the booking...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Nothing really happened, I decided to rewatch punk/lesnar instead of shield vs usos/bryan. Randy hears voices again and hated us fans all along these past couple of years.
> 
> 
> I'd be surprised if the raiders score more than 14 points tbhayley


Ill be surprised if the Raiders score. Period. They suck. Other than my boy Terelle Pryor, gotta give props to my Buckeye Boys.

Anywho, I rewatched Tully vs Magnum just to make sure it's still the best Cage match of all time (it unquestionably is ) and what comes on next? Bruiser Brody vs Abdullah the Butcher from World Class :mark::mark: These two were mayhem personified. Even if Mick is too humble to admit it, Foley will always be the greatest brawler of all time. But these two definitely have to be in the top 10! This shit is great. Bruiser's bleeding, Abdullah's bleeding, forks are going into eyes, someone got clocked with a gas can. So much FUN.:clap

Edit- Hayley, Smackdown kinda sucked, except for the SHIELD being the SHIELD and the Usos having unquestionably the best match they ever had because of SHIELD and DANIEL BRYAN. That's really all you need to know. Titus only gets in like 15-30 seconds of offense before being smothered. Stupid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oakland Raiders atm > Abdullah the Butcher in all aspects of his career. 

that dude was utter shit. fuck him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Oakland Raiders atm > Abdullah the Butcher in all aspects of his career.
> 
> that dude was utter shit. fuck him.


Oh come on, how can you say that? His matches are all like 10 minutes and just filled with the most ridiculous stuff and wild brawling you've ever seen. I in no way credit him as being a good wrestler or anything, but damn I sure have fun watching his quick 5-10 sprints of mayhem.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe since they back in Chicago for the first time since June, we can get dolph/adr part 34430 for the WHC amrite ? A man can dream can he ?


Back to GTA


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always hated him. Same with New Jack. Another fucker I want harm to come to.

being a piece of shit in the ring has a lot to do with it. don't mean "work wise" either.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck New Jack is right. Unprofessional hack. Abby is just whatever. Don't care for him, but don't despise him like I do Jack.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Anyone planning on picking up the Goldberg set? I'm not a huge fan of his but the listing does look good


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y) @ New Jack being a twonk.

Usos best match ever just b/c they're in there with Shield & Danielson? I'll bite. Only b/c I know the Usos will do their typical Kofi Kingston-esque bullshit by getting smothered with offense, do one move, only this time the hot tag won't be to the other dumb twin, it'll be to Danielson who'll open up the floodgates to their personal hell. That makes those twonks non-work instantly negated. I swear that could have been a handicap and no one would probably notice.

If I watch right now and see this, then I'm a genius. _(not really, that how the match HAS to go for anyone to care.)_

--------

I'll def need the Goldberg set. He's the man.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

TRIPS SET TOMORROW FUCK :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can't say I've ever seen a New Jack match, to be perfectly honest. Sounds like I'm not missing much. The only thing I know about the guy is he beat some 16 year old kid up who had a fake I.d. And put him in the hospital. Sounds like an asshole.

Abby I will never understand how a lot of wrestlers whose books I've read seem to like him. Apparently he would just cut you whether you were okay with it or not. I'm not a wrestler obviously, but if some fat fuck did that to me, shit would be ON.

I have seen probably 10-15 of his 5-10 minute brawling sprints and found them all to be rather entertaining.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Is there any way I can only see the Undertaker parts and none of the rest? :side:

legit tempted to download b/c it has the Iron Man match vs The Rock on it. Said this about fifty times now. Dying to see it. Also a hint if anyone has a good link atm. HINT NON-SUBTLE HINT. Perhaps it's best to wait and let someone upload it from that dvd itself. I don't mind the commentary having an edit.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Abdullah the Butcher can go rot in wrestling purgatory. Absolute disgrace of a man.

That JBL/Vader match was really fun.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Idk why you're watching MNF - you know Peyton is gonna fuck Oakland in the ASS. :hb
> 
> As for Raw, should be decent with it being in Chicago (hot crowd) and Punk returning. Don't care much about the Heyman storyline anymore, though. Only thing worthwhile for me atm is the main event plotline.


Didn't know RAW will be in Chicago tonight, well at least that's one thing to look forward to.



The Lady Killer said:


> TRIPS SET TOMORROW FUCK :mark:


Looking forward to watching the documentary... as soon as someone uploads that online of course.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fucking MID-SOUTH set hasn't even been posted online yet. Hope the HHH documentary at least makes it on pretty quick. THE FUCK ARE THESE LAZY PIRATING BASTARDS DOING?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

This will be the first WWE product (outside of tickets/PPVs) I've purchased in years. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Absolutely agree with the FUCK NEW JACK comments. He's a total, unlikable cunt with the exception of "Natural Born Killaz" which is an awesome song!

Even more annoying that wwe.com keeps promoting him in their articles. (One of the greatest wrestlers to never wrestle for WWE? Fuck off Joey Styles and whichever douchebag runs the site)

Reading BROCK's book at the moment, just entered the WWE chapter of it and it's been pretty interesting to read so far. Can't wait until the Pain is back on TV which wont be for another while.

P.S. Tomorrow is time for Thy Kingdom Come and GTA V will finally be here! :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jerry Lawler and Austin Idol had the second best cage match of all-time. If :woolcock was here, he would vouch for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Jerry Lawler and Austin Idol had the second best cage match of all-time. If :woolcock was here, he would vouch for me.


Haven't seen that one but I don't doubt it. Lawler vs Funk No DQ in 1981 is one of my favorite matches of all time. Lawler is up there with Ric Flair, Eddie Guerrero, and Hulk Hogan on the Mount Rushmore of guys who were brilliant as both faces and heels. Lawler is vastly, vastly underrated by most of the WWE viewing audience who have only seen his Bret Hart matches, Random gimmick matches, and commentary.

Funnyfaces or someone, you mind telling me what Abdullah did that causes everyone to say he was such a despicable human being? I've only read about him in Bret Hart and Mick Foleys books, and they seem to love the guy?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't he knowingly spread Hepatitis C to countless opponents?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Funnyfaces or someone, you mind telling me what Abdullah did that causes everyone to say he was such a despicable human being? I've only read about him in Bret Hart and Mick Foleys books, and they seem to love the guy?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Didn't he knowingly spread Hepatitis C to countless opponents?


Whoa. If that's true and he really did that, I feel like a complete fool for watching let alone enjoying some of his matches. How could WWE promote him on their Top 25 rivalries if that's true? Yet Benoit, who was essentially mentally challenged when he did what he did, gets erased from history? (N)

Edit-just watched the video C2D. Dear god that was tough to sit through. I can't believe that.....and that guys in the Hall of Fame but RANDY SAVAGE isn't? I knew WWE was screwed up, but wow.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Whoa. If that's true and he really did that, I feel like a complete fool for watching let alone enjoying some of his matches. How could WWE promote him on their Top 25 rivalries if that's true? *Yet Benoit, who was essentially mentally challenged when he did what he did, gets erased from history?* (N)


Sadly, this is a case of life not being fair and WWE being hypocrites.

- The Butcher did that and WWE still put him in the Hall of Fame. (which he has the nerve to complain about and say that he should've been put in sooner)

- Jimmy Snuka killed his girlfriend thirty years ago but Vince covered up for him and he was put in the Hall of Fame 13 years later. They continue to promote him to this day as well.

- New Jack is a well known piece of shit but WWE still insists on praising him in their site

- Verne Gagne suffers from Alzheimers and killed another man a few years ago but WWE never acknowledged it and continue to treat him like a legend on their site (as they should since he's not his normal self)

- Benoit is accused of killing his family with very little evidence to support that and is erased in an instant. Evidence suggests that he suffered from a fucked up brain but instead Vince tries to dodge that by bearing no responsibility and claims that the man was a "monster". He is called "the worst person ever in wrestling" and continues to be unfairly vilified.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Sadly, this is a case of life not being fair and WWE being hypocrites.
> 
> - The Butcher did that and WWE still put him in the Hall of Fame. (which he has the nerve to complain about and say that he should've been put in sooner)
> 
> ...




Wait, Snuka and Verne Gagne have KILLED people??? Really? I don't know anything about New Jack other than the obvious case when he beat up an under age kid who had a fake ID. Never even seen one of his matches.

Benoit's brain was analyzed and found to resemble that of an 70-80 year old Alzheimer's patient. I've watched his Hard Knocks documentary, read everything Eddie and Jericho and Dean ever said about him, and I refuse to believe what happened, if he did in fact do it, was anything other than a mentally deranged person doing the worst thing possible when he wasn't thinking correctly. My dad killed himself one day after being the best dad a kid could ever have for 17 years of my life. I can understand exactly how something like that can happen.

Man, hearing this stuff makes my skin crawl. Listen to stuff about the NFL and head injuries and it'll make you feel the same way. Same thing with baseball and steroids. Wrestling isn't unique in having a bad side, it's just the easiest target for a lot of people.

Edit- Just read about Verne and Snuka online. Damn. If it wasn't already 10000% evident, Vince McMahon is the worlds biggest hypocrit.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Please let it be R Truth!!! :mark::mark::mark:

Wow. :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Is Kofi fucking all these moves up by accident or is he just selling his arm REALLY good? That's the Kofi Kingston experience, in a nutshell. Guy needs to learn how to have offense that doesn't look so phony and moves that aren't ridiculously obviously set up.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Kofi is athletic as hell but agreed can't wrestle for shit. Crowd is hot tonight.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Good lord, I love Luke Harper. His boots are just so wicked, and his finishing clothesline is easily one of my 5 favorite finishers in the WWE right now. One of the few that legit looks like its decapitating fools.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'll admit....I'm having impure thoughts about Steph.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at The Miz getting knocked out. Big Show didn't even waste time thinking about it.


----------



## TommyRich (May 21, 2013)

Miz tv just got cancelled :clap


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The things Steph was saying about Miz were kind of accurate. Miz really serves no purpose other than company bitch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

"click" MNF time

highlights so far ptp/wyatt family and steph


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> The things Steph was saying about Miz were kind of accurate. Miz really serves no purpose other than company bitch.


Agreed. I've been enjoying some of Stephanie's promos lately, her one with Bryan was a good a few weeks back.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

NFL?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I swear they read places like this forum, ppl on here have been saying that about the miz for years about the apperances and etc. HHH if you read this PUSH ZIGGLER


OMG Randy has lost it guys


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

That Del Rio makes me so mad!!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Summer Rae's legs....that is all!


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Meant to post in the RAW discussion thread fpalm

So, uh...Battleground? I'm expecting an awesome crowd, considering that it's in NY (and near Toronto ).


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Accidental double post


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There's a Paramore fan impostor running around rampant in the RAW discussion thread.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Roman fucking Reigns. Good lord!


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That 11 on 3 elimination match was outstanding. I give it ***3/4 and almost went higher.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Titus O'Neil and Roman Reigns need to have a ten minute slugfest as soon as possible. Listen to that crowd when they were in the ring together!

Very good episode with a fun main event. Can't forget about the three GOATs + 1 with that real good segment unk3 :heyman2 :ryback + :axel


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Is there any way I can only see the Undertaker parts and none of the rest? :side:
> 
> legit tempted to download b/c it has the Iron Man match vs The Rock on it. Said this about fifty times now. Dying to see it. Also a hint if anyone has a good link atm. HINT NON-SUBTLE HINT. Perhaps it's best to wait and let someone upload it from that dvd itself. I don't mind the commentary having an edit.


You can grab the Trips/Rock (Iron Man) in my sig


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 for the ME from last night. Also a *** for Kofi/ADR fun match


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Goldust and Cody vs Reigns and Rollins? :mark:

Main Event was awesome, ***3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There's a Paramore fan impostor running around rampant in the RAW discussion thread.


Tell me more.

Main event tonight was FUNFUNFUN. Ideally booked and an absolutely blast to watch. I love that Roman Reigns. I want to hug him for being so nifty. Come at me. He's MONEY. Rollins is always a given and that Blackout that smashed Truth's head like a grape :mark:

@Zep, you got the iron man? You deserve a hug yourself. I'm Danielson & Kane from last year right now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

11-3 Handicap tag was positively glorious, loved it. I second the motion for a Titus vs Roman 10 minute slugfest. Those guys just get it. ***1/2, booked perfectly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Tell me more.
> 
> Main event tonight was FUNFUNFUN. Ideally booked and an absolutely blast to watch. I love that Roman Reigns. I want to hug him for being so nifty. Come at me. He's MONEY. Rollins is always a given and that Blackout that smashed Truth's head like a grape :mark:
> 
> @Zep, you got the iron man? You deserve a hug yourself. I'm Danielson & Kane from last year right now.


aww no worries buddy


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hayley3

Finished Elimination Chamber 2012 atm. Start is relatively atrocious. Still don't care for the WWE Championship chamber outside of Punk vs Jericho moments & Ziggler's bumping. Too much during it. Divas is still lame and a bore. All the filler in this time doesn't help.

Then things get better with the World Championship chamber which is the clear MOTN and a lot better of a match than I actually remembered. All the parts in it were pretty good; even the part when Show enters Danielson's chamber. The only flaw there was everyone laying down as Show fiddled with entering b/c Khali took them out in the 48 seconds he was legit in the match. Ha. Feasible since he hit his FINISHER. Wade Barrett was the fucking best in the last area of the match. Killing both Danielson & Santino at every turn. He looked top notch. Santino is crap, but I'll be damned if those fans didn't make it quite the moment. All the better when Danielson owns the twonk to bring them back to reality. 

Set up for Swagger vs Gabriel is cringe-worthy. At least the match ends up being nifty for only three minutes. Seriously good action the entire trip. Swagger takes a sick dropkick to the face in it. Even in a random sprint he still does his insane "I'll take something really hard in the face" spot. Awesome. Swagger is the MAN.

Main event is still entertaining. For me. I know that's minority and the match isn't really special, but eh. It's fine. Standard WWE type of gimmick match brawl, although where it managed to be relatively run of the mill, it didn't have a point to where I disliked or hated the match. That's the positive. It's easy to watch and does what it kind of needed. Be an effective filler for John-boy till WM was looming. Still solid in my book. Iirc the Rumble match is much better. About to watch that show atm, actually. So this PPV is kind of meh for the majority, but I don't "hate" it too much like I used to. Two good matches, one that's fine, and two that are bleh. Sounds pretty typical. Nothing was great though & that's the main problem. It was filler heavy.

It's absurd at how much Extreme Rules is > than a lot of PPVs on this year. Even the ones that aren't bad, they just don't compare. At least most tend to give a great match on 'em. OTL & MITB had Punker vs Danielson, NOC had Punker vs Cena & Sheamus vs Del Rio, HIAC had Cesaro vs Gabriel & Sheamus vs Show, etc. TLC had the godly TLC match of course. That HAS to be named. You get my point people.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GYM THEN THY KINGDOM COME.

:mark: :mark: :mark:.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Man, that 11 on 3 handicap match was epic. Absolutely epic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably the FUNNEST _(ha, apparently spell check permits that being a real word...)_ match of the entire year from WWE. and I've had a blast with a lot of matches seen. That stuff was too good.

btw, for those who watched Smackdown, how about Reigns spear to Dolph on the outside? Insanity. Roman Reigns is the greatest man on the earth.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/198392-xapury.html

Here's the impostor.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sick spear indeed, yea I actually enjoyed that raw match alot need to rewatch the whole things as I did t see kofi entire part and some of rvd and first USO
. Very fun match, loved it, :lmao :lmao I literally started crying of laughter, after Ryder"s and Justin"s eliminations , wasn't that the funniest thing ever, literally crying soo funny

Ryder didn't even sell the spear lol, just got up after being pinned


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

UGH.

I have two papers due tomorrow so I might only get to watch the HHH doc today & the extras tomorrow.

MEGA REVIEW to be posted probably tomorrow.

On a side note, anybody else actually kinda like the idea of Punk Vs Ryback as another placeholder feud until Punk inevitably gets back in the WWE title picture again? The only other heel in the company that would even make sense is Del Rio for Punk to go up against. Are we getting Punk Vs Ryback in the cell again? A handicap match in the cell? Is Pnk eventually going to bury Axel/Ryback/Heyman at once? I would imagine that it's the end game for the feud at Survivor Series and Punk gets another filler feud at TLC before entering in the 2014 Rumble and winning the damn thing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/198392-xapury.html
> 
> Here's the impostor.


:lmao @ the posts.

:hayley1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> UGH.
> 
> I have two papers due tomorrow so I might only get to watch the HHH doc today & the extras tomorrow.
> 
> ...


I preordered TKC through Amazon and I keep checking the delivery status every hour I'm at work hoping it is delivered by the time I get home. So psyched for the undertaker portion of the documentary :mark:

I'm happy Punks in a feud with Ryback. Well maybe happy isn't the word I'd use. I'm definitely okay with it though. In think Punker will get a good match or 2 our od Mr. Reeves and maybe help elevate him a bit. I'm curious as to where this will eventually go, but eh, Punk could do a lot worse than Ryback (cough Axel cough).


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah, Ryback is a big step up from Axel. Their cell match was good and their TLC match was great. Now though, they're working with a different face-heel dynamic, but I see some potential in it. Obviously Ryback's far from the best opponent Punk has worked with, or will work with, but it's not a hopeless situation.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

New HHH Documentary is released today...


Everyone more excited about seeing The Undertaker on it 8*D.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Callamus said:


> New HHH Documentary is released today...
> 
> 
> Everyone more excited about seeing The Undertaker on it 8*D.


:taker gonna sell/draw people into buying that HHH doc... because it's best for business. :HHH2

I'm gonna wait to watch it online whenever I can find it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Someone on XWT says he's buying it today and will upload it :mark:.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Callamus said:


> Someone on XWT says he's buying it today and will upload it :mark:.


XWT is working again?!

:hb

Edit: Oh, and last night's Main Event was the most "well booked" match of the year. The fact that everybody (other than the geeks nobody cares about - RYDERTRUTHGABRIELDARRENYOUNGLOLOL) looked like stars. Ambrose got the ball rolling and took out Rob Van Dam of all people. Reigns just killed folk. Rollins looked great because he only fell because of the numbers game, plus he destroyed R-Truths head. Bryan was the legit leader of the team. Usos served a huge purpose. Titus just Titussed. 

It was just frickin excellent booking as well as an awesome match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It'll probably be on Netflix in a week or two. I'll wait. 8*D


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Feels like I am the only one who doesn't really care for documentaries.  I don't think a Triple H one would interest me very much either.

Outside the Reigns stretch in the RAW match, I didn't care too much for it. Ambrose does nothing for me and I don't think the Rollins stretch came across too well. But the Reigns stretch is definately one of the very best things I've seen on RAW for a long time.

And a little bit more progression in my Dangerous Alliance journey. Having to wait for Power Hour to still download (sigh) & Sting/Cactus Jack Submit/Surrender match is up (anyone know if it's decent?) Watched one of my highly rated matches in Steamboat/Dustin vs the Enforcers @ the Clash #17. While it is still absolutely incredible, dipped a bit. Nothing bad to say about the match, bell to bell where Anderson just proves he is the man. Zybysko's selling is very weird to me. Staggers and stumbles. But, incredible.

Austin/News at the event did go up a bit. Start was just fun. But I still don't care for any other matches on the card outside of these two.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Can anyone point me in the direction of what the best match or matches Steve Austin had with Ricky Steamboat? I've heard a lot about them and its been on my list of things to check out for a while.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Callamus said:


> New HHH Documentary is released today...
> 
> 
> Everyone more excited about seeing The Undertaker on it 8*D.


NOT EVERYONE 



HayleySabin said:


> It'll probably be on Netflix in a week or two. I'll wait. 8*D


REIGNS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Can anyone point me in the direction of what the best match or matches Steve Austin had with Ricky Steamboat? I've heard a lot about them and its been on my list of things to check out for a while.


I always forget which is which, but checking the top 100 WCW matches list that a few of us put together, these are probably the ones ya wanna check out:

#83 Steve Austin Vs Ricky Steamboat - Bash at the Beach 17/07/1994 (200 points)
#71 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of The Champions XXVIII 28/08/1994 (236 points, One top 20 vote)
#70 Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash Of The Champions XX 02/09/1992 (246 points)


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

KMart has Thy Kingdom Come for 20 bucks, picking it up after work today. I love wrestling documentaries like this. I'm excited.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> REIGNS












REIGNS


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ambrose looks in sheer AWE of Reigns in that pic .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wishing he wasn't being watered down by WWE unlike his two partners in the non-tag ranks. AWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked up REIGNS on Wiki because I didn't remember seeing him at all in FCW. I remember his FCW name but don't think I ever saw a match. I did happen to notice a triple threat between REIGNS, AMBROSE AND ROLLINS though :mark:. I gotta see that. Did he have any matches in FCW worth seeing?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just remembered I have an Ambrose FCW pack on my PC. Got the triple threat + a bunch of tags involving REIGNS :mark:. Gonna go watch the triple threat. Just watched the Raw main event:

First 2 eliminated are RVD and Kofi? :mark:

I do find it weird though that NOBODY TRIED TO BREAK UP THE PINS. Guy (Ambrose) his his FINISHER both times and nobody thought to break the pin....

Titus walking in behind Ambrose then grabbing him by the face was awesome. 

REIGNS :mark:

Oh SHIT at the Spear to Gabrial :mark:.

SPEAR TO RYDER :mark:. No shitty woo woo woo kick thingy :mark:.

DANIEL BRYAN :mark:.

An Uso pinned REIGNS? Bah. But at least his elimination was good. Bryan went NUTTY on him then he got superkicked (the best thing the Uso's know how to do) then a splash off the ropes. Wish Ambrose went first though .

Rollins with that KNEE TO THE HEAD off the ropes :mark:. See ya later, Darren.

By Dean. Rollins all alone. Should have been REIGNS. The impact of him mauling people with SPEARS at the end would have been incredible, and it was already fucking awesome early on in the match lol.

LOL. R-Truth's head is dead.

:mark: Bryan getting the last 4 men to surround Rollins and murder him.

REIGNS is back. With Ambrose. And they get taken out by Ziggler and the Uso's, leaving Bryan to take care of Rollins :mark:. KNEE TO THE FUCKING FACE!

My god this match was GLORIOUS.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Leakee (REIGNS) Vs Dean Ambrose (AMBROSE) Vs Seth Rollins (ROLLINS) aka THE SHIELD VS THEMSELVES - FCW Feb 5th 2010

Reigns has a dumb name. Leakee. Princess Lea Kee. LOL. 

Man I forgot how dumb Rollins' entrance was. He spazzes out like a retard.

Ambrose is pretty much the same but wears less clothing in FCW. I'm sure that works for some people.

Ambrose has a staredown with Regal. THOSE REGAL MATCHES :mark:.

Reigns pulls Ambrose off the ropes and sends him outside. The ring is for killing people, not staring at announcers!

Why are any of the people in the audience even there? I've given more of a shit about Meltzer's opinion than they've given about this match. Wait, scratch that. I never give a fuck about his opinion.

The match does seem dull though. Ambrose and Rollins double team REIGNS for about 2 minutes and then Ambrose betrays Rollins and tries to win the match for himself and things look like they might get interesting and... nope.

REGAL STRETCH ON REIGNS. SUPERKICK TO REIGNS.

A few nice sequences and MOVES~! leading up to the finish, but fuck, everything just feels so... slow and dull. Even when they run it looks like they're in slow motion or something. Like they aren't putting in that much effort. Best stuff comes from Ambrose and Rollins in the ring together. REIGNS doesn't look impressive AT ALL at Leakee. Crazy to think what he'd be like later in the year when SHIELD show up on WWE TV.

DOUBLE SAMOAN DROP. Well that was impressive by Leakee. His finisher looks terrible :lmao. He wins.

Kinda wish I hadn't watched this now . Not good. At least they work well together as a team .


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Blackout on Truth was the highlight on Raw for me. Well, that is, if you discount REIGNS murdering a few people... :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, Blackout on Truth was the highlight on Raw for me. Well, that is, if you discount REIGNS murdering a few people... :mark:


Who the fuck discounts REIGNS murdering people? NOBODY, that's who.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Touche.

God, that match was awesome. It's odd that now Ambrose is 3rd on the SHIELD hierarchy for me personally. Tough to choose between Rollins and REIGNS for #1, though.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Reigns really impressed me since he is in the Shield. He is my fav. followed by Ambrose. I can't see Rollins being more than a new Jeff Hardy in his singles career


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Nothing wrong with having a Jeff-like career imo. Over as fuck and multi-time champ. Just hope he lays off the drugs. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Touche.
> 
> God, that match was awesome. It's odd that now Ambrose is 3rd on the SHIELD hierarchy for me personally. Tough to choose between Rollins and REIGNS for #1, though.


I know the feeling. I was saying the same thing last week or something. When THE SHIELD first showed up, based on his FCW stuff Ambrose was my #1, then Rollings, then Reigns. Now Reigns is at the top for me, with Rollins only just slightly behind, and then Ambrose who just doesn't really do anything for me atm. Poor guy gets given shitty opponents with little to nothing to work with in terms of a feud. Needs more MIC TIME and someone to actually FEUD with. ATM he's just having random matches with guys, and right now random rematches with Ziggler.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I think he could really carry a midcard feud with this mic skills if given the chance. I miss the days of midcard feuds meaning something.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Did it annoy anybody else when Rollins was on his own in the handicap match and Lawler made a comment along the lines of "Rollins must be lost in there, he'snot exactly the leader of The Shield." ONE OF THE FUCKING KEY FUCKING ASPECTS OF THE FUCKING SHIELD IS THERE IS NO FUCKING LEADER YOU FUCKING FUCKWIT. Really irked me for a good few seconds, but then I saw Rollins land on his head selling Bryan's running knee and all was good with the world.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lawler is just white noise for me these days.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Ziggler/Ambrose was announced for SD this week. I'm sure that Ziggy can beat Dean at his 10000 try


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Didn't pick up on that Lawler statement, but yeah, that's retarded. Rollins sells DAT KNEE like a boss. :mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just went back and the exact quote was "I think it's the general consensus that Seth Rollins isn't the leader, he's got to be feeling lost out there, even feeling helpless"


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

:lmao what an idiot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I kinda get what Lawler was trying to say, but unfortunately he went about it in the most retarded way possible. WAY TO GO JERRY.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lawler also called Randy Orton the WWE Champion when they did the drum roll for the votes on the WWE App. :lol

Can't say I cared for Raw last night other than REIGNS murdering everybody and Orton per usual. Completely missed Punk's segment only for WWE to be nice enough with the recapping, which was funny because RYBACK destroyed Punk while Axel looked like a jobber once again!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Rollins is the quiet one - makes sense. They kinda bill Ambrose as the pseudo-leader since he's the mouthpiece and the one with the singles title, but still. No need to say Rollins looks completely clueless. Anyone would be caught off guard when outnumbered 5-1.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Usually when I watch some older stuff, I hear commentary. When I listen to RAW, I hear nothing. Usually just blocked out in the back of mind. Not sure how since I didn't intend for it to happen.

But on what FluxCapacitator said, I can understand Lawler's comments. Rollins' has come across as rather the background guy in the Shield.


Finished off Clash of the Champions 17. Have to retract my earlier statement of only enjoying two matches (Austin/News & Dustin&Steamboat/Enforcers) because Sting/Rude was just great fun and somehow I just enjoy Rick Steiner/Lex Luger. Never really saw the reasons or justification for Luger being a bad wrestler outside of his Flair/Steamboat matches.

Up and down card. Lots of pointless filler.

*Clash of the Champions XVII*

Thomas Rich vs Big Josh *1/2
The Firecracker vs Bobby Eaton dud
Tom Zenk vs Diamond Studd dud
Bad News vs Steve Austin **1/2
Van Hammer vs Cactus Jack *
Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes vs Arn Anderson & Larry Zybysko ****1/4
Brian Pillman vs Johnny B Badd *
Sting vs Rick Rude ***
Rick Steiner vs Lex Luger ***​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Someone on XWT says he's buying it today and will upload it :mark:.


PLEASE FUCKING PLEASE. I'm going to check on the hour every hour until I see it.

REIGNS is a beast. :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark: at that spear on Gabriel. It was a thing of beauty.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can't go wrong with either CotC Steamboat/Austin matches. Two incredible workers and they had great chemistry together. Love me some Steamboat. 

Awesome 11 on 3 tag match last night. I'd love to see Goldust/Cody win the tag titles and hold them until like Rumble and see Goldie turn on Cody and they have a match at Mania. Would be sweet. 

Really impressed with Reigns lately. I think all 3 of them (Rollins and Ambrose too) will do well when they go on their own.

Nothing on the Trips set jumps out at me match wise. I'm hoping for an unreleased Jericho set someday so the LMS match with Trips is on Blu Ray. I'm interested in the doc for the Trips set for sure. I will buy it at some point but I will wait until it drops in price or watch the doc on netflix when its on there soon.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ADR/Kofi - ***. Carryjob tbh but still.

Orton/RVD - **1/2. Orton goin nuts = badass.

11 on 3 - ***3/4-****. Talk about perfect booking. The build up to Reigns' elimination was just :mark:

Awesome Raw.


----------



## jacobdaniel (Jun 20, 2011)

I may be in the minority here but the stare down between Titus and Reigns seemed pretty intense to me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Doubt you're in the minority at all. Crowd ate it up as well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Elimination match was one of the top 10 matches on Raw all year, that's high praise because Raw in general has been great this year. 

Thanks a lot Cal, I'm gonna check those out if the Trips set hasn't arrived by the time I get home.....

.....just checked Amazon.com, the Trips set ARRIVED :mark: :mark:

So pumped.

Roman fucking Reigns. This guy. He's so great. Where did they find him? He rules the wrestling world for me right now, aside from Danielson he's my favorite part of WWE right now. He makes straight MURDERING FOOLS look like its easy.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, REIGNS has really grown on me. Not sure if I like him more than Rollins, because Rollins is just ridiculous inside the ring, but REIGNS is a nice change of pace. I really enjoy watching athletic big men wreck people. For having the least amount of in-ring experience of the trio, he seems to be learning rather quickly. Reminds me of Batista when he finally hit his stride in the ring.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, the 11 on 3 match made me think of the crazy potential Survivor Series has this year. The Boston crowd (one of the best US crowds imo) + a big SVS match w/this angle = :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not really that surprising that Reigns has gotten so good, after all it is in his blood and shit. Confused as fuck as to whether or not he's 2nd or 3rd generation because that whole family tree confuses the shit out of me . But he's definitely one of the best 2nd/3rd generation guys WWE have picked up in a LONG arse time. In fact he might be the best since Orton.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

S. Series is in Boston? Enter :cena to SAVE THE DAY.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I really need to get tickets to SSeries. I imagine that the big elimination match this year is going to be awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Yeah, REIGNS has really grown on me. Not sure if I like him more than Rollins, because Rollins is just ridiculous inside the ring, but REIGNS is a nice change of pace. I really enjoy watching athletic big men wreck people. For having the least amount of in-ring experience of the trio, he seems to be learning rather quickly. Reminds me of Batista when he finally hit his stride in the ring.


I agree with the early Batista comparison, when he started having fun in the ring and just crushing people, I actually became a moderate fan of his. Although I think people are gonna hate on it because I brought up Batista in a positive light in the old thread and just got CRUSHED by everyone hahaha:lol. That said, if Reigns keeps progressing at the rate he has, he will BLOW Batista out of the water as it pertains to ring work. 

Rollins is unbelievable, his match with Bryan is second only to Punker/Cena 2/13 as my favorite Raw match of the year.

The Shield is the greatest idea WWE has has in a LOOOOOONG time, maybe ever. They are the ultimate tweeners, and all of them bring something great to the table.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Fuck the Batista haters. MR GLASSES. Guy was awesome from like 07-"retirement."


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Indeed. Batista was awesome.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's almost as if as soon as he started working with The Undertaker, he all of a sudden became awesome. 

2003: Sucked
2004: Sucked outside of Evolution tags
2005: Sucked outside of HHH HIAC
2006: Sucked 
2007: AWESOME
2008: AWESOME
2009: AWESOME
2010: FUCKING AWESOME.

THE UNDERTAKAH EFFECT :taker


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Reigns owned from the second I saw him write his name on the mat in NXT. Some guys just have that presence around them, that larger than life thing WWE are always harping on about. Well Reigns is it in SPADES. The dude is flat out awesome and the best bit is that he's barely scratched the surface. 

I too am really looking forward to the Survivor Series tag this year. If they do it right and include all the players in the story it's going to be so amazing. Throw on a hot Boston crowd and it has MOTYC written all over it. 

Bryan, Cody, Goldust, Ziggler, Uso's, PTP, Show, HHH, Orton, Shield

Some combination of that = :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brye said:


> I really need to get tickets to SSeries. I imagine that the big elimination match this year is going to be awesome.


According to a rumored card I've read, this is how SVS will look like:


Spoiler: Survivor Series



it'll be Team Bryan (Bryan, Usos, Ziggler & Miz) vs. Team Orton (Orton, Show, Ryback, Axel & Ambrose); Sandow vs. Rey vs. ADR for the WHC; Punk vs. Heyman with Punk's revenge finally happening; Shield vs. Rhodes bros. titles vs. careers; and apparently Taker vs. Wyatt.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Watched the matches from the Break the Walls Down: Chris Jericho DVD:

Jericho/Lance Storm- Canada 90- ***, very good match for their first encounter

The Thrill Seekers vs The Infernos- *3/4, probably the worse match from the set

Jericho/Ultimo Dragon- Japan 95- ****, wow this was awesome, one of the first great Y2J matches, I believe. This match made JEricho known, imo

Jericho/Cactus Jack- ECW 96- ***1/2, you can see how Foley here tried to give Jericho the biggest rub possible, and he managed to do it. A very good wrestling match between those 2

Jericho/E.Guerrero- Fall Brawl ***3/4- Eddie/Jericho sounds great, but an 18 minute PPV match between them, sounds awesomme. This is a classic cruiserweight match, everything is great at this.

Jericho/Juventud Guerrera SuperBrawl- ****- the way those two sold how important the mask is was just phenomenal. A must see WCW cruiserweight division match,

Jericho/Malenko- Nitro 98- ***1/4- nice match between these 2, that's all i have to say here

Jericho/Angle- No Way Out 2000 ***1/4- both Angle&Jericho were still quite "green" here but you could see that they were gonna be BIG. Nice match between these 2 here

Jericho/HHH- RAW 00- **3/4- this put Jericho in his storyline with Stephanie which made him a name in the WWE

Jericho/Rock- No Mercy 2001- ****1/2- this match was phenomenal. This is pure magic in the ring, a forgotten gem this one.

Jericho/Steve Austin- Vengeance 2001- ***- this was Jericho/Austin in the end, besides all the negatives, this was a good match, fun to watch and Jericho's heelish tactics were very good.

Jericho/Hogan- SD 2002- **- only the crowd was good here, the match was quite bad

Jericho/HBK- Wrestlemania 19- ****1/2- I don't think this match needs anymore comments, just awesome

Jericho/Cena- RAW 05- ***1/4 Jericho carried Cena here and made him look really good. Good match, made by Y2J

Jericho/Hardy RAW 08- ***, a WWE cruiserweight match, nothing more, but still good.

Jericho/HBK No MErcy 2008- ****3/4, one of my fav. matches and the best match of the all Y2J/HBK's feuds.

Jericho/Taker- SD 09- ***1/4, with more time this could have been an excellent match. Still a good one.

Jericho/Edge- WM 26- ***1/2- great ending for this DVD with one of the last awesome Jericho matches.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

No HHH in the ring = (N)


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

On my way home, putting on the RAW ME!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> It's almost as if as soon as he started working with The Undertaker, he all of a sudden became awesome.
> 
> 2003: Sucked
> 2004: Sucked outside of Evolution tags
> ...



Truth. I did enjoy his work with Eddie in 05' too. I wish Batista would come back for the next 2 years for 4-5 PPVs. He could be a solid attraction and help build some of the younger guys up.

BROCK LESNAR VS BATISTA, THE BEAST INCARNATE VS THE ANIMAL, HELL IN A CELL. BOOK IT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rewatching the main event last night, match was glorious


And Batista is pretty good, I'd agree with that year by year ring skils though


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Watched the matches from the Break the Walls Down: Chris Jericho DVD:
> 
> Jericho/Lance Storm- Canada 90- ***, very good match for their first encounter
> 
> ...



I love the Jericho set, you missed the match vs Rey at ER tho. Truly a brilliant match, Jericho is at his heel best and Rey is freaking REY MYSTERIO. Doesn't get much better than that. In my top 5 for MotY in 2009.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Mysterio/Jericho feud in 09 was so awesome. I don't recall the ER match much, but wasn't there an AWESOME GAB match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Mysterio/Jericho feud in 09 was so awesome. I don't recall the ER match much, but wasn't there an AWESOME GAB match?


Yep there indeed was, that's also in my top 5 for MotY 2009. Those two were magic in the ring in 2009. I highly reccomend you check out ER 2009 Jericho vs Rey though, it's one for the ages. The finish is :mark:

I think this is what I had for 2009 MotY, although I'm positive I'm forgetting something important

1. HBK vs Taker WM25
2. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy TLC
3. Jericho vs Rey The Bash
4. CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy Cage Match
5. Jericho vs Rey ER

Special Mention for the NWO WHC EC match, Hardy vs Edge Ladder, and Cena vs Orton I Quit.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is that the one where Jericho grabs the mask and sneaks the pin as Rey covers up his face? Or was that the finish to the GAB match? I'm confusing the two, I think.

Maybe that's the finish to ER, because wasn't Mysterio wearing a second mask when Jericho tried that again in the rematch?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I can recall the Mysterio/Jericho ER getting a ****1/2 from me when I have seen it a month ago. I agree that Y2J's heel work was just fantastic


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rey/Jericho 09 saga was absolute brilliance.

It'll be curious to see face Punk vs heel DA BIG GUY @ BG.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't hear what fluxcap. said a couple pgs ago about Lawler, I thought when rollins was about to pin ziggler he said something like "he is all alone, I think its setting in on him" idk, probably did say something stupid, I really dont pay attention to lawler anymore tbh

Another highlight of raw for me was Punk and I have the same sneakers :lmao


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Is that the one where Jericho grabs the mask and sneaks the pin as Rey covers up his face? Or was that the finish to the GAB match? I'm confusing the two, I think.
> 
> Maybe that's the finish to ER, because wasn't Mysterio wearing a second mask when Jericho tried that again in the rematch?


ER was when he grabs the mask and hits the roll up, GAB Rey wears a second mask.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

(Y) Gotcha, OK that makes sense. I still need to go back and watch both.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The cool thing about the Jericho Rey series was:

Judgement Day<Extreme Rules<The Bash

They just kept getting better, and better, and topped themselves at The Bash when you thought it simply wasn't possible after ER. Other than Taker/Michaels, this was my favorite build/feud of 2009.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Really hope TKC gets put up on xwt or somewhere by tonight (UK time) or I'll be gutted. Stupid fucking staggered release dates. What even is the point in doing that anyway? The rest of my week is pretty full. I was banking on tonight since it's the best night for me time wise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***3/4 For THE BASH Jericho/Rey. Their best match for me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> ***3/4 For THE BASH Jericho/Rey. Their best match for me.


I have it at ****1/4. What keeps you from going higher on it? It was damn near flawless to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All their matches really started to have that "choreographed" (yey spelt that correctly first time. I R PROUD) feel to them and it kinda took me out of their matches. I still enjoyed their stuff and I really liked their feud as an actual storyline and shit. I just think like the Jericho/HBK 08 series, the matches get overrated to uber fook.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well, aside from Judgement Day 2008 (which was positively glorious), I definitely agree with you about the HBK-Jericho feud. I loved everything about Rey-Jericho though, thought both guys were near their best there. Rey was doing moves I hadn't seen since WCW, and Jericho was heeling it up and just being bossy in general. I know you aren't the biggest Jerichoholic in the world, but he definitely had me sipping his kool aid in 2009. 

T-Minis 1 hour until I am home watching TKC! Can't wait :mark: Haven't been this psyched for something since For All Mankind came out. I actually took the day off work for the Foley Doc release :lmao


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I need to rewatch the Y2J/Rey matches from 09. I remember liking them but it has been awhile since I watched them. 

I like the idea of Rey v ADR for the WHC at some point. I assume RVD is not going to win the WHC (I'd love to be wrong) but Rey chasing the title from ADR sounds fun. I know a lot of people hate on Rey but I enjoy him. Hopefully when he comes back he can stay healthy (BIG IF) and have a nice little run to end a great career. For a guy his size to have the career he has had is kind of amazing. 

With the Trips set coming out today I looked at the PPV from One Night Only and don't think I have seen the Vader/Owen match. Anyone have an opinion on it? 

Also excited to her about the doc from you guys.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

11 vs.3 ec tag ***3/4

y2j/rey bash 09 ***3/4

- Lawler says " Who woulda thought Seth Rollins would be the lea... and then gets cut off by JBL or Cole , Its so funny that Kofi has by far the worst portion of the match, like BY FAR. :lmao @ Ryder's elimination, soo funnny, he NO-SELLs the spear, just gets up after the three count.

Cherographed is actually a good word to use for those matches (Y) to Cal, I use to have the bash at ****3/4, but i didnt hold up as well. Match stucture seems funny(cherographed) and I feel at some points in the match they didnt know what to do and it slowed the paced down alot, never seen the ex match


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Batista sucked, but he was fairly easy to carry.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Brhulk/Punkerine, and well, fuck it, I'm just going to put it at ****3/4 and MOTY over my pearl Taker/Punk


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Rewatched Brhulk/Punkerine, and well, fuck it, I'm just going to put it at ****3/4 and MOTY over my pearl Taker/Punk


Thank you for finally coming around, it was keeping me up at nights 

Nah but in all seriousness, Lesnar-Punk is flawless, if it isn't someone's MotY I'd love to hear why. Punker/Taker is second, Cesaro/Zayn is third, Cena/Bryan is fourth, and Cena/Punk is fifth. What a great year we have had, all those matches are worthy of ****1/2 or higher in my mind.


----------



## JamesK (Oct 7, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Really hope TKC gets put up on xwt or somewhere by tonight (UK time) or I'll be gutted. Stupid fucking staggered release dates. What even is the point in doing that anyway? The rest of my week is pretty full. I was banking on tonight since it's the best night for me time wise.


I hope that too...It is the first time that a major documentary has been late for so long on xwt..


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Brock vs Punk is my MOTY as well. Watched it three times and it holds up every time. How amazing is that BROCK? Five matches in two years and he's got MOTY for both 2012 and 2013. His book has been a fun read and I'm almost finished with it. Fucking Vince couldn't swallow his pride for a change and offer him a proper contract back in 2005, so we were screwed out of so many years worth of Brock matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Brock vs Punk is my MOTY as well. Watched it three times and it holds up every time. How amazing is that BROCK? Five matches in two years and he's got MOTY for both 2012 and 2013. His book has been a fun read and I'm almost finished with it. Fucking Vince couldn't swallow his pride for a change and offer him a proper contract back in 2005, so we were screwed out of so many years worth of Brock matches.




Totally. I liked Brock's book, he's one of the few human beings that seems to have his priorities in order. Vince couldn't just give Brock time off or be straight with him, he just took the "I'm Vincent Kennedy McMahon, I made you!" Stance, which is such bullshit. I don't blame Brock one but for leaving, under the circumstances. Vince was acting like he owned him. Wrestlers are like independent contractors, not employees Vince. Still makes me bitter about all the great years of BROCK that we missed. 

Regardless, like Undertaker, Foley, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Randy Savage, and HBK, we will never, EVER, see another Brock Lesnar. He's a true original.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea what my actual MOTY is atm. It's between Undertaker/Punk and Lesnar/Punk, with Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 Falls floating around too. All are ****1/4. Couple of the SHIELD tags, Cena/Punk, Dolph/Del Rio and Cena/Bryan would slot in somewhere to make a top 10. Fuck it, Lesnar/Punk is my current MOTY. Freshest in my mind out of the 3 ****1/4 matches and I probably did enjoy it more than the WM and NXT matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Took me a while to dethrone dolph/adr as match of the year, but had to put punk/lesnar up there, ***** for me, will never get the love for punk/taker, watched it 3x and just dont get it


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Absolutely. But at the same time, Brock also fucked it up for himself. He left the company just like that after they raised his stock so quickly then when his NFL dreams came to an end, he wanted to return as a last resort. Vince put all his trust in him and he just left them like that. I understand both sides on this but I side with Brock more because he tried to be straight about it and Vince didn't accept it. Plus in the end, Brock won the war as he now has a luxurious contract where he gets paid millions just to make a few appearances every once in a while and have a couple of matches every year.

And he's definitely a one of a kind talent. Not often do we see such a great mix of athleticism, power, technical abilities and speed in one package.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Absolutely. But at the same time, Brock also fucked it up for himself. He left the company just like that after they raised his stock so quickly then when his NFL dreams came to an end, he wanted to return as a last resort. Vince put all his trust in him and he just left them like that. I understand both sides on this but I side with Brock more because he tried to be straight about it and Vince didn't accept it. Plus in the end, Brock won the war as he now has a luxurious contract where he gets paid millions just to make a few appearances every once in a while and have a couple of matches every year.
> 
> And he's definitely a one of a kind talent. Not often do we see such a great mix of athleticism, power, technical abilities and speed in one package.


I really need to get Brock's book 

Didn't even realise he 'tried' to return in '05, and when he went to Japan he was still fighting WWE for the right to fucking compete :frustrate

I forget now, but he renamed the F5 in Japan to something else, a play on words towards Vince and the E


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Brock's book is a very good read. I got it when it came out and really enjoyed it. My only complaint is that it seemed short.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TKC was on my porch when I got home. Fuck yes. :mark:

Peace out ya'll ill be back in 2hours when the Doc is over :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I liked Brock's book, but he did come off as a whiny little kid at times I thought. I seem to remember the "straw that broke the camels back" so to speak with WWE was that Brock was pissed that Vince McMahon didn't come and tell Brock to his face that he was losing a match on a house show to The Rock... LOL.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm reading Foley's 1999 book, so great....


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh yeah, Brock renamed the F5 in Japan to 'The Verdict'


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched the main event from Raw again. I stand by my ***3/4 rating. Just a tremendous match that made so many guys look good.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Are any of Brock's matches from Japan worth watching?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Gonna re-watch the main event from RAW in a couple minutes. But before I do so, I just have to ask: Is Seth Rollins really Tyler Black? You guys sure it isn't his twin brother or something? The guy has really, really grown on me. Never thought much of him as a worker before (although, I always said that he had the look) but holy shit it's amazing whatever they did with him down in FCW amd NXT. The guy is just one hell of a worker. He had me sold when he was putting over the fact that he was the sole survivour.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Started watching Survivor Series 2009. Michael Cole said the match involved ten of the greatest young superstars in the WWE. Finlay was in the match and so was Matt Hardy lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit, got all excited when I saw the new HHH DVD on XWT. FULL Bluray image for each disc. 90GB in total :lmao.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm no good at downloading shit, so I'll probably wait until someone uploads it to somewhere when I can just watch it. First time I watched Punk's documentary was when someone uploaded onto YouTube and somehow it managed to stay there for a few months iirc before it got taken down.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just at the beginning of the McMahon Helmsey section of the HHH documentary. This shit is really, really, good. Definitely worth the $20 you wankers, don't download it just buy it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cactus Jack making me excited to get off work and visit my nearest Best Buy :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> Just at the beginning of the McMahon Helmsey section of the HHH documentary. This shit is really, really, good. Definitely worth the $20 you wankers, don't download it just buy it.


It's not that easy to find wrestling DVD's in a third world country. And even if you, it's bootlegged anyway.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I will just watch the documentary on Netflix in a few months. Don't have the money to buy it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Dammit, got all excited when I saw the new HHH DVD on XWT. FULL Bluray image for each disc. 90GB in total :lmao.


There's a standard DVD version on there too. It's too late for me now though lol. I have a very early start in the morning so hopefully it will be a much quicker download tomorrow night by the time I get home. I'm not too fussed on the quality because I'll have the blu ray come October. Right now I just want to see the damn thing. 

Happy watching everybody


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

And I'll wait till a DVD version (with a shitload of seeders on it) comes out.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just got done with BROCK's book completely. Downloading HHH's documentary now, the 21gb one. It's pretty fast even if it wont finish until tomorrow at least.


----------



## law_1990 (Aug 27, 2013)

Hopefully it picks up once people have finished D/Ling and start seeding. I need this NOW:mark:
If it's as hype as people are saying i'll deffo buy it in October.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Just at the beginning of the McMahon Helmsey section of the HHH documentary. This shit is really, really, good. Definitely worth the $20 you wankers, don't download it just buy it.


I don't care enough for Triple H to buy it and money's tight atm.



sharkboy22 said:


> It's not that easy to find wrestling DVD's in a third world country. And even if you, it's bootlegged anyway.


Third world country? Were do you live lol?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH DVD isn't out here yet, plus fuck spending like £22 for it when I've just lost my job. And it's HHH so fuck him .

Was gonna download the first disc of the full DVD upload, but I can wait until later for just a normal BR rip of the documentary part only .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> HHH DVD isn't out here yet, plus fuck spending like £22 for it when I've just lost my job. And it's HHH so fuck him .
> 
> Was gonna download the first disc of the full DVD upload, but I can wait until later for just a normal BR rip of the documentary part only .



Just finished it. Fantastic. Sorry didn't mean to ruffle feathers by saying just buy it, I can understand wrestling DVDs, especially one for a wrestler you aren't a super fan of, aren't priority when money is tight. I got a $30 gift card from Amazon for my Bday so that's why I bought it right away 

I won't spoil it or anything, but it is definitely amazing. Foley Doc will always be my favorite, for obvious reasons, but Triple H's is up there with the Bret Hart, Jericho, Punk, and Stone Cold Docs as one of the best ever produced by WWE. It drags for 10 minutes at the end, but absolutely terrific all the way through.

He even admits Wretlemania 25 vs Randy Orton was a complete piece of garbage. That Hunter, who knew he could be so honest? :lol

Gonna watch the Ironman match vs Rocky now, never seen it before, but Cal says its tremendous so I'm gonna take his word for it and invest the next 60 minutes of my life into it. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll eventually see it 2morrow. After I go into town, then come home and watch PERSON OF INTEREST since it starts back tonight in the US :mark:. And then after that I'll have THE SHIELD show to watch (note: No REIGNS included). THEN after that I should be good to go with the HHH doc unless something else crops up that I'm forgetting about .

Started watching a 2001 PPV this afternoon. Got 4 matches in and turned if off because I was bored . 1.5 on the CAL SCALE so far :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I'll eventually see it 2morrow. After I go into town, then come home and watch PERSON OF INTEREST since it starts back tonight in the US :mark:. And then after that I'll have THE SHIELD show to watch (note: No REIGNS included). THEN after that I should be good to go with the HHH doc unless something else crops up that I'm forgetting about .
> 
> Started watching a 2001 PPV this afternoon. Got 4 matches in and turned if off because I was bored . 1.5 on the CAL SCALE so far :lmao.


Let me guess, No Mercy 2001?


Edit-Wait what am I talking about, that has the lingerie match with Stacy Keibler! That's gotta be worth ATLEAST 8 points on the Cal scale :lmao


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Nostalgia said:


> I don't care enough for Triple H to buy it and money's tight atm.
> 
> 
> 
> Third world country? Were do you live lol?


lol. I'm from a small island in the Caribbean. Wrestling's not popular here, (although for the past year now the local channel bought the rights to show RAW, SD and Main Event). No store is gonna waste their time shipping in a bunch of stuff no one's gonna buy. If I have to get any wresting related stuff, I have to buy it online. Shipping can sometimes be a bitch.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Let me guess, No Mercy 2001?
> 
> 
> Edit-Wait what am I talking about, that has the lingerie match with Stacy Keibler! That's gotta be worth ATLEAST 8 points on the Cal scale :lmao


Nope lol, NM is the only PPV from 01 I don't currently have. The show shall remain a SURprise UNtil tomorrow. Might get some BACKLASH for some of my comments though. Could start a forum INVASION of people against me. I will await JUDGMENT from everyone after I post it .

MIND GAMES~!


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Still one of the best matches, if not, the best match of 2012. This match deserves more praise.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My money is on King of the Ring 2001. That show kinda sucked just like all King of the Rings that weren't saved by the undisputed GOAT.

No homework today, so I can finally start my Clash of the Champions project. Hopefully this will move me up from the lower midcard in this thread all the way to part-timer territory. Maybe even get the elusive green rep from King Cal himself :flair.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finally done with 2007 now I've made it to the Benoit tribute show and man, this is one tough show to sit through. It's just so sad to hear everyone talk about how he was all about respect and that he'll be missed only for everyone to distance themselves from him soon after, not to mention how excited Chris himself sounds when they recap his documentary.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Maybe even get the elusive green rep from King Cal himself :flair.


Don't know if he's a regular repper, but I have never gotten it from the King Cal either.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

What are the official rules of the Cal Scale? I want to use it to see how my favorites PPVs stack up side by side.

God, I remember watching that Benoit tribute show live.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I still don't get this scale of Cal's. Can I make my own scale? Can I weigh things on it? Like weed? Maybe cupcakes? Maybe my DVD/Blu Ray collection?

I digress....

I learned how to multi quote errrybody....YAY!!!!



Nostalgia said:


> I'm no good at downloading shit, so I'll probably wait until someone uploads it to somewhere when I can just watch it.


Glad I'm not the only one. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Batista sucked, but he was fairly easy to carry.


Face Batista sucked yes. Heel Batista was pretty awesome. He was so easy to dislike. I think it's the stupid belly button tattoo. Maybe it has some special meaning. 



smitty915 said:


> I'm reading Foley's 1999 book, so great....


Such a damn good book. Foley is good!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

CAL SCALE

NO ~ -1
DUD-* ~ 0
* 1/4-* 3/4 ~ .5
**-** 3/4 ~ 1
***-*** 1/4 ~ 2
*** 1/2~ 3
*** 3/4 ~ 4
**** ~ 5
**** 1/4 ~ 6
**** 1/2 ~ 7
**** 3/4 ~ 8
***** ~ 9

AND NOW YOU KNOW (I think).


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I just don't get it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WATCH A FUCKING PPV !

GIVE THE MATCHES STARS !

SEE WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE FOR EACH RATING !

ADD IT UP !

YOUR DONE !

Sorry Im in a bad mood, damn you all that dont have school work of any type and are jsut watching your stupid wrestling and HHH doc


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> WATCH A FUCKING PPV !
> 
> GIVE THE MATCHES STARS !
> 
> ...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Clash of the Champions I*​*NWA World Television Championship*
"Gorgeous" Jimmy Garvin vs. Mike Rotunda - ****

*NWA United States Tag Team Championship*
The Midnight Express vs. The Fantastics - *****1/2*

*Barbed Wire Match*
Road Warriors and Dusty Rhodes vs. The Powers of Pain and Ivan Koloff - ****

*NWA World Tag Team Championship*
Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard vs. Lex Luger and Barry Windham - *****1/2*

*NWA World Heavyweight Championship*
Ric Flair vs. Sting - ****1/2*​
The first of many reviews in what will hopefully be a successful project. The Clash of the Champions was essentially NWA/WCW's answer to the WWE's Saturday Night Main Event in that it was their television special that resembled a PPV card. The series lasted all the way until 1997 and consisted of 35 events. This here is the inaugural show which was aired at the same time as Wrestlemania IV. Facing some stark competition, the folks from the NWA were able to successfully put on what is considered to be among the greatest American wrestling events of all-time in this very night.

-Rotunda and Garvin get the honor of taking part in the first ever match of COTC in a "wrestling" match. The match is contested under amateur wrestling rules and it is for the Television Title. Not gonna lie, the match kinda fell flat for a six minute bout due to the stupid stipulation, but the real good stuff was after the match. Rotunda, Kevin Sullivan, and Rick Steiner attack Garvin until Precious (Garvin's girlfriend) saves him.

-The US Tag match was one of the three matches from this PPV that I have seen before, and it is probably the most critically acclaimed of the bunch. My first viewing of the match a few years ago left me with utter disappointment due to how "disjointed and sloppy" the match felt. However, this recent watch finally clicked with me as the "disjointed and sloppy" turned into "anarchy and chaos". Both teams get their hands on anything that is around them and hit each other in all possible ways. When the match finally gets in the ring, we get our typical STF done right. The way that the Midnight Express isolates and destroy Rogers really makes the crowd sympathize with Fulton and you can sense their anger every time the ref does not see the tag. It should also be worth noting that this crowd actually gave a HUGE pop to the Midnight Express prior to the match and not much of a reaction to the Fantastics, but as the match went on, more and more people were behind the Fantastics. Perfect combination of FUN and EMOTION here.

-6-Man Tag here is nothing more than a five minute fight that acted as a cooldown match of sorts, even though the crowd was still hot for it. The match itself was more or less a resolution to a pretty cool long-running feud between the Powers of Pain and the Road Warriors. The Powers of Pain broke Animal's face during a weightlifting segment, so Animal decides to wear a Jason/hockey mask to protect himself. Nothing too special about this match, but Dusty Rhodes goes bonkers towards the end which is cool to see.

-I also watched the NWA Tag Title match before a few months ago and I remember absolutely loving it. That love manages to manifest itself once again on rewatch. Whereas the first tag match was pure anarchy and chaos, this match could be best described as fluid and ecstatic. The pace here is unrivaled and it is incredible how the crowd keeps up with the action and reacts to every single thing going on here. You know a match is special when a man like myself that loathes Luger is having so much fun watching him toss around two favorites of mine in Arn and Tully. Every move and exchange seamlessly transitions itself to the other. The crowd pop at the end of this is most certainly one of the loudest in JCP/WCW history. WATCH THIS please if you just want ten minutes of some fun and excitement.

-The main event here is among the most famous wrestling matches of the entire decade and is pointed out as the match that turned Sting into a megastar. Flair's forte during the 80s was how he was always able to make his opponent look better than ever, and boy does it work here. Every time Flair tries to dent Sting, Sting just comes back even harder and annihilates the champion. Of course, Flair has to make up for this initial onslaught with his knowledge and experience like he always does. Simple story here of Flair taking advantage of the young kid, but Sting no-sells and somehow makes it look badass. The one major flaw with this match is that as time passes, you notice how often the same exact exchanges keep getting reused. It's certainly a great match, but Sting at this point in his career was clearly not ready to wrestle a 45-minute match. Regardless, this was a very good match that put Sting over like crazy.

Overall, this was definitely one of the best wrestling events I have seen. Loads of F-U-N here in just about every match. How can that ever be a bad thing? It's also a great event for people who don't really care for or are not very familiar with the NWA. As I said before, this event was televised the same night as Wrestlemania IV. One event is remembered for its glory, whereas the other possesses the distinction of being the second lowest scoring Wrestlemania on the CAL SCALE. It's clear to see who the winner was on March 27, 1988.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Srdjan99 said:


> Reigns really impressed me since he is in the Shield. He is my fav. followed by Ambrose. I can't see Rollins being more than a new Jeff Hardy in his singles career


You say it like it's a negative. Pretty sure that means he'll be a mega star; like he should be.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

3 1/2 for Flair/Sting at CotC? Sad day. 

I just watched HHH/Jericho Hell in a Cell. Really underrated I thought.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That opinion was spot on. It isn't some ultra fabulous match. Sting's pretty good in it, with a strong lead in Flair aka the key, that culminated to a long & memorable match that made Sting into a star. Not quite an amazing bout, tbhayley. And surely not the best on that night. But still really good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Mark Henry fan was actually high on it, that match is soooooo boring, and I love naitch as most in this thread know, its so long as well and noting was THAT good eiither


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's another point I almost chimed on. I know a good bit who flat out dislike it. Skins makes the list apparently too. I don't see it, but I suppose the gripe monsieur funnyfaces had with it about some of the sequences towards the end sort of repeating is where some find it "boring". Wasn't exactly the time limit draw that had the most amount invoking fluent wrinkles of change throughout, although what was given was hardly bad. There's better draws out there and worse ones all the same. Flair vs Sting is good stuff & more importantly _(for implied meaning over absolute quality)_ did what it's intended purposes was: to make Sting a star.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I hate all of you. How dare you not agree with me. 

Ok I'm kidding I love you guys.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Disagreements? I've never heard of such a thing.

Meng > Shawn Michaels singles work.

See. Everyone always agrees with me. :hmm:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did somebody just address me as monsieur?

The two tag matches are what really need to be talked about. Especially the second tag match. Criminally underrated.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Bro, I loved me some Haku back in the day. Meng was wonderful in WCW as well. 

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Haku is still doing indy shows with Barbarian as the Faces of Fear.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Your pushing it Cody already have/going to have. Long day, get out of here with that bull :hbk2

Meng was phenomenal though, maybe this was not the places but I remember some where on here some weren't fans of the stinger


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Ending up getting the Trips doc today, but just the DVD, not Blu-Ray. So awesome, as expected, and I was glad to see there weren't any scrubs on it like Miz or Kofi. It was people that were close to Trips and came up with him and worked close with him. That's all I'll say for now so not to spoil anything, but it is a must watch. 

Watched a few of the matches and JPL/Steamboat from WCW Saturday Night was kind of fun (first match on the set). Also watched the Unforgiven match with Angle, and didn't quite hold up.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like the Cal scale, but wouldn't a PPV that has less matches be at a disadvantage? Like, if a show has two ***** Mark Henry matches and literally no other match on the card it'd get 18, but if another show had 21 Davey Richards v. Kofi Kingston matches all at **1/2 it'd get 21.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Your pushing it Cody already have/going to have. Long day, get out of here with that bull :hbk2
> 
> Meng was phenomenal though, maybe this was not the places but I remember some where on here some weren't fans of the stinger


I mean it too. Or I at least know I prefer it to think this. Yet, I'm a mega Rockers fan. It's interesting stuff.



Yeah1993 said:


> I like the Cal scale, but wouldn't a PPV that has less matches be at a disadvantage? Like, if a show has two ***** Mark Henry matches and literally no other match on the card it'd get 18, but if another show had 21 Davey Richards v. Kofi Kingston matches all at **1/2 it'd get 21.


:lol

You knew this would illicit some humorous response from me; regardless of any intentions.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I guess **1/2 *IS* too high for a Richards/Kingston match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not even in days gone by where I liked a Davey match would I assume such a coveted average star rating would suffice. I can think of a match that's worse on paper, tbhayley. AR Fox vs Kingston. Oh my. The shitstorm that makes me cringe. Or Elgin vs Kingston. That moron attempting to throw the little guy around only to do holds & high flying moves himself. Painful scenarios across the board. 

even though a lot of strong talents can't even make Kofi matches good...

dammit. I tried to make this short. It's word vomit. Can't help myself. :hayley2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> What are the official rules of the Cal Scale? I want to use it to see how my favorites PPVs stack up side by side.
> 
> God, I remember watching that Benoit tribute show live.


The Cal Scale

NO = -1
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9
MOTY/GOAT = 2

Whatshisname got it slighty wrong .

Also, it isn't perfect YeahTOOOLDFORCODYYEARDATE, so just shut up and feck of. As if I'd use it for a fucking ROH PPV or anything to do with a Davey Richards match 8*D.

People talking about my elusive REP? I usually only tend to rep people to leave them stupid messages . Or if they make a good post. Which is why you don't get my rep 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1993 is too old these days; True. Good grief, that's a mindfuck.

I'll find solace in some random NXT matches now.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The 9th and inner most circle of hell is reserved for traitors, back stabbers, and Kofi Kingston matches. I'm pretty sure that's how Dante put it 

Watched the Trips vs Orton LMS match from TKC, still holds up. Best match these two ever had, unless I'm forgetting one. So physical and intense, Orton was undoubtedly at his best here and Trips wasn't far behind at all. The match they should have had at WM 25.

Speaking of Mania 25, it's really funny to hear Hunter shit on the WM25 match with Orton. That documentary was shot through the most rosey red lenses, and STILL they couldn't deny that it was utter garbage :lol


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

Full Blu ray rip of TKC is now on XWT. Its about 7gb.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He slams the WM 25 match? YES.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I guess **1/2 *IS* too high for a Richards/Kingston match.


Steven Richards and Eddie Kingston can most certainly put on good matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie Kingston aka god aka Chikara Grand Champion.

Yeah, good is an understatement. That match vs Claudio in 2011. :homer


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Eddie Kingston aka god aka Chikara Grand Champion.
> 
> Yeah, good is an understatement. That match vs Claudio in 2011. :homer


I *must* see this. What event is it from?

I really need to play catch up on CHIKARA, I've only ever seen the odd few matches here and there but it's always delivered. Plus I've read up on the BDK angle and it just sounds absolutely magnificent. I think that may be my next wrestling venture.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> He slams the WM 25 match? YES.


He DOES shift a little of the blame on creative for the"no DQ or he loses the title" stip, which I find ridiculous because behind the scenes wise, if he didn't want to agree to that Stipulation, they wouldn't have done it. Still, his quote I believe was something like "I knew we were pretty much screwed before we even went out there, then I sat in the back watching the monitor of what Shawn and Taker were doing, and I was both blown away and completely pissed because now we were even more screwed, there is just no way to follow that. I went up to gorilla to meet them when they finished and sad "wow that was incredible, thanks a lot assholes". :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ER 2012 and WM 23 comes today :mark:

But of course I have two essays to write


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloading the Trips DVD. Well, the documentary part. Fuck the matches .

In the mean time, PERSON OF INTEREST and then I'll attempt to finish my first 2001 PPV ramble .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I *must* see this. What event is it from?
> 
> I really need to play catch up on CHIKARA, I've only ever seen the odd few matches here and there but it's always delivered. Plus I've read up on the BDK angle and it just sounds absolutely magnificent. I think that may be my next wrestling venture.


Creatures From the Tar Swamp.

Absolutely top notch show up and down the card. 2011 was elite as fuck for the company. BDK angle still had steam and the 12 Large Summit, while having its hiccups along the way, proved to be a strong arc for the year to grow on. If you're into the BDK angle _(and it IS amazing)_ then 2010 is the way to go. Oh my. How hot those angles were. Goosebumps. I'm biased for a reason; b/c they made me love it so, so much.



Cactus Jack said:


> He DOES shift a little of the blame on creative for the"no DQ or he loses the title" stip, which I find ridiculous because behind the scenes wise, if he didn't want to agree to that Stipulation, they wouldn't have done it. Still, his quote I believe was something like "I knew we were pretty much screwed before we even went out there, then I sat in the back watching the monitor of what Shawn and Taker were doing, and I was both blown away and completely pissed because now we were even more screwed, there is just no way to follow that. I went up to gorilla to meet them when they finished and sad "wow that was incredible, thanks a lot assholes". :lol


I think he even knows that his work vs Orton isn't good at all unless there's a stip behind it. b/c those two for the majority have zero chemistry. The comparison and having to follow Undertaker vs Shawn _(then an underrated triple threat match)_ were small potatoes behind the fact that those two couldn't engage a massive crowd at the tail end of a long show for nearly 25 minutes if their lives depended on it. Alas, that's exactly what happened.



Callamus said:


> Downloading the Trips DVD. Well, the documentary part. Fuck the matches .
> 
> In the mean time, PERSON OF INTEREST and then I'll attempt to finish my first 2001 PPV ramble .


2001 :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> I think he even knows that *his work vs Orton isn't good at all unless there's a stip behind it.* b/c those two for the majority have zero chemistry. The comparison and having to follow Undertaker vs Shawn _(then an underrated triple threat match)_ were small potatoes behind the fact that those two couldn't engage a massive crowd at the tail end of a long show for nearly 25 minutes if their lives depended on it. Alas, that's exactly what happened.












At least imo it was a damn solid match. I know Cal loves it too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their work together isn't any good half the time WITH a stip behind it. They just have terrible chemistry overall bar like 3 matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I keep saying it, orton/hhh had a pretty good match on raw in 2010. I think its was a mania rewind thing, shawn/y2j had a pretty good one from the same show as well


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I just think it's hilarious how they've had THREE Last Man Standing matches together.

I mean, DAMN. Talk about overdoing it.

Plus, Trip's resume as a babyface in a heel Vs face dynamic isn't anything close to his heel work, even if 2003 exists.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh the only guys Trips seems to have true non-stip chemistry with are Benoit, Show and I guess Jericho.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao 6 matches in to this 2001 PPV... and it's still only 1.5 on the CAL SCALE :lmao.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Foley (ONO, IYH Canadian Stampede, etc)
Brock (Summerslam was NOT a gimmick match)
John Cena
JEFF FUCKING OBVIOUS HARDY
Shelton Benjamin
Shawn Michaels (RAW 2003, TT 2004, RAW 1996 & 2006)
The Rock
Eugene
Batista @ Backlash
Tajiri

Just some random non gimmick matches there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Stupid me for forgetting Foley and Jeff. 

But however I mean _consistently_, which disregards everybody else there - and SSlam 2012 was No fucking DQ


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It wasn't NO DQ though, Trips just said to let things slide out there.

That being said, what an epic fucking match. The best NON GIMMICK HHH match ever bar none for me. I think. 

"THIS ISN'T UFC! THIS IS WWE!" or something of that nature.

Extreme Rules & Mania both get tons of love in the 2013 grand scheme of things; but Summerslam is just on another level. TAKING THE GLOVES OFF.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS HHH/Lesnar love :mark:. Match Vs The Rock at Backlash is probably his best non gimmick match though.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Those are the clear cut two that jump off the page to me as being EXCEPTIONAL, as in ***** 1/2*, I don't think any more of his non gimmick stuff reached that apex but there was some really fucking awesome shit such as the Gold Rush tourney w/Benoit, Summerslam w/Eugene, No Mercy w/Hardy, etc.

There's ALOT of his work that I would pimp out, just not on that elite Top 100 WWF/WWE matches level like HHH/Brock & HHH/Rock. That stuff would be TV bouts with the likes of Tajiri, Maven, TAKA, Henry, etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> :lmao 6 matches in to this 2001 PPV... and it's still only 1.5 on the CAL SCALE :lmao.


That can't be the Rumble b/c of the ladder match and this scares me to think what you're watching b/c nothing is that bad. It's probably King of the Ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Invasion maybe?

Idk. It's probably KOTR though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> That can't be the Rumble b/c of the ladder match and this scares me to think what you're watching b/c nothing is that bad. It's probably King of the Ring.


That was my guess, 2001 was wonderful as whole match quality wise. every PPV had something good about it really, except maybe King of the Ring (can't even remember off the top of my head who won, was that the Edge year with the AWESOME Angle/Shane Street Fight?)

So yea, 2001 ruled, hard. Second only to 2004 really as my favorite year I think. Nothing will ever top Eddie and Benoit holding the belts at the same time, atleast not for me :mark:

The LMS match I was talking about was Orton vs Trips No Mercy 2007. That match kicked all sorts of ass, easily their best match ever in my mind.

Edit- if it IS King of the Ring 2001, and you made it through 6 matches with only a 1.5 on the Cal scale, shame on you Cal. I might be in the minority here, but Angle/Shane, while not making tons of sense, was an absolute blast of a match. Shane took one of the worst beatings I've ever seen, how can you not respect that atleast a little?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it's definitely not the Rumble because I already watched that at the start of the year and won't be doing it again . Plus, it's the GOAT RR event overall .

Main event time. Watched 2 other matches and the rating has gone up finally .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Invasion 2001 had some barely decent to awful matches.

:lmao Hebner vs. Patrick...Shawn Stasiak getting a 6 minute match. Pretty terrible from what I remember.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

So it's Vengeance ?

6 matches watched + 2 more + main event = 9 matches, Vengeance being the only PPV in 2001 with 9 matches I think.

LOGIC 4 DUMMIEZ


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> So it's Vengeance ?
> 
> 6 matches watched + 2 more + main event = 9 matches, Vengeance being the only PPV in 2001 with 9 matches I think.
> 
> LOGIC 4 DUMMIEZ


It can't be, or else I've lost all faith in Cal. Vengeance 2001 has that hardcore dream match between RVD and Undertaker, they totally stole the show with that one. Definitely has to worth more than 1.5 points for that match alone


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Well it's definitely not the Rumble because I already watched that at the start of the year and won't be doing it again . Plus, it's the GOAT RR event overall .
> 
> Main event time. Watched 2 other matches and the rating has gone up finally .


Rumble 2001 sucks. If it was only the first two matches, it would be a tremendous show.

Only PPV from '01 that bores me for the majority.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate you Cody.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> So it's Vengeance ?
> 
> 6 matches watched + 2 more + main event = 9 matches, Vengeance being the only PPV in 2001 with 9 matches I think.
> 
> LOGIC 4 DUMMIEZ


*Invasion had 9...and none of them were good.

Then again the whole storyline was...*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> It wasn't NO DQ though, Trips just said to let things slide out there.
> 
> That being said, what an epic fucking match. The best NON GIMMICK HHH match ever bar none for me. I think.
> 
> ...


Yeag 'cos if it was UFC, Brock would probably kill you


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't hate me; hate the Royal Rumble event lacking substance for the majority thanks to a long match that doesn't always deliver.

2007 though. My stars. And yet you said you didn't like Cena vs Umaga. Oh Cal. What are we going to do with you?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate you Cody.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hayley1


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena/Umaga has too much STUPIDITY involved to be good. The RR match is awesome though. Mainly for the last 10 minutes or so but the rest is mostly really good too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If this goes back to Umaga wanting to use an entire turnbuckle to murder John Cena and that's deemed stupid, then I hate you more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

USE THE FUCKING METAL WRENCH YOU CUNTS. Stupid and painfully OBVIOUS setup for Cena to use the ripes to choke out Umaga. Other shit annoyed me too obviously. Not just the finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I stand by my last post.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> If this goes back to Umaga wanting to use an entire turnbuckle to murder John Cena and that's deemed stupid, then I hate you more.



You think that is stupid, some poster in the top 10 AE thread got into a argument with me because I said cena/lesnar er was ***** and he disagrees completely because it was a typical Cena squash because of the last 5 mins :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hate you Cody. And Paramore is the worst band on the planet. Lady Gaga sucks. And those underage girls you like are ugly.

MOST INSULTING POST EVER~!

:mark: HHH doc almost done. Shall be able to watch that after I finish this PPV ramble. Then after the HHH doc I gots the 1993 WWF Timeline with Luger :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's scary how many people think John Cena matches are worked like Kofi Kingston ones. Really. Watch matches with that mong. They're exactly what Cena haters think his matches are every time. It's perplexing.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I agree with Cal on this one, the ending is ridiculous and the match as a whole is severely overrated. The best match at RR07 was the tag team match. Now that is glorious. One of the best WWE Tag matches of the decade, IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Redskins- That's why I don't post outside of this thread too much, people are retards. Doesn't mean I agree with you about Cena vs Lesnar being a ***** match though 

Umaga vs Cena at the Royal Rumble was absolutely glorious Cal, that match kills. How can you NOT like Umaga trying to commit felony murder on John Cena? That's a recipe for success, and the finish was great. Never seen a match end that way before, and doubt I ever will again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I agree with Cal on this one, the ending is ridiculous and the match as a whole is severely overrated. The best match at RR07 was the tag team match. Now that is glorious. One of the best WWE Tag matches of the decade, IMO.


Never agreed & disagreed with a post so much before.

Seriously though, the ending is like the ultimate sign of nitpicking I've ever seen. Who thinks Umaga would be wise enough to use a tool to plunk Cena in the head? He doesn't think normal. Fucker was like Kamala, foreign and stupid with a hunger to KILL. The kill being what his handler would give him at the time. He listened, had the weapon, stuff happened. Really think there is too much looking into this which kills the fun. But, hey, that's just me.



Callamus said:


> I hate you Cody. And Paramore is the worst band on the planet. Lady Gaga sucks. And those underage girls you like are ugly.


First: I can live with that.
Second: Fair enough; tunes aren't for everybody.
Third: Say what now? Pump your breaks there, man. Tread lightly.
Fourth: oh, FUCK YOU.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Invasion 2001*

Well, 2000 is done with for my PPV Rambles. Time to start 2001. But where to start? Gotta be INVASION for me. Most of 2001 was centred around the Invasion angle, so I think the PPV that got it rolling should be the first I watch . Besides, I've already seen WM 17 a few months back so bugger reviewing that AGAIN. Same for the RR .


*Lance Storm & Mike Awesome Vs Edge & Christian*

Lol, Storm & Awesome don't even get an entrance on the PPV. Already in the ring . E&C interupt Storm's attempted promo.

E&C are showing up those southern Dub See Dub hicks early on. Then Christian nearly kills himself with a dive over the ropes. Pretty much like what Lesnar did at Extreme Rules 2012 lol.

Poor Christian keeps nearly dying with some insane bumps. One off the top rope to the outside that begins the heel control segment, and then another ribs first into the ring post. But of course all this means is FIP Christian :mark:.

Mike Awesome teases us with a top rope powerbomb, but it never happens . 

Holy motherfucking shit at the height Storm gets on a back body drop. Puts Jeff Hardy to shame.

Finishing stretch for this is insanely good. A ton of miscommunication spots between Edge & Christian along with miscommunication spots from Awesome & Storm provide a TON of near falls that get the crowd going crazy. Shame the rest of the match is terribly basic outside of a couple of cool spots.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Earl Hebner Vs Nick Patrick - Special Guest Referee Mick Foley*

A referee match. On PPV. And Mini Flair isn't even in it.

Cole talking about Earl: "HERE'S A MAN WHO IS EXTREMELY LOYAL TO THE WWF!". A few years later he would be fired for selling merch without WWE's consent :lmao.

:lmao I took my eye off the match for a second and saw Earl falling through the ropes and forgot there was a Ref Vs Ref match going on and assumed there was a ref bump in an actual match :lmao.

SPEAR BY EARL! Well, sort of. Not even close. But he wins anyway.

This was oddly entertaining. In a way. Prevents it being a flat out DUD at least lol.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


SARA BREAKS KAYFABE AND CALLS UNDERTAKER MARK.


*Sean O'Haire & Chuck Palumbo Vs The APA*

:mark: APA. And they are the tag team champions :mark:.

:lmao hilarious watching the buildup video with the APA rallying the troops and shit against the Alliance... and like, 90% of them are released/disappear within the next month or two.

TEDDY LONG IS THE REFEREE. TEDDY LONG SIGN IN THE CROWD.

Match starts off awesome with the APA beating the shit out of the WCW guys. Then it goes meh when Farooq is the FIP because the pace slows down and the WCW guys aren't exactly brilliant in the ring. Hot tag to Bradshaw and things get FUN again.

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL. APA win. Needed to be like, half as long and nothing but a brawl.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*X-Pac Vs Billy Kidman*

X-Factor. Underrated group with an underrated theme song. Yeah I said it. Any faction with X-Pac and ALBERT has to be good. Justin Credible was always kinda just there.

Always makes me laugh that X-Pac was still getting booed during the Invasion. People really, really don't like him. And I don't know why. Guy is probably better than most people's favourite wrestler. Casual fans at least.

X-Pac makes Kidman look like a shitty rookie by showing him up and wrestling circles around him basically... and he still gets booed .

Odd senton from X-Pac off the ropes. Kidman moves too, and X-Pac kinda falls in slow motion almost lol. Sweet X-Factor (the finisher, not the faction) counter by X-Pac.

Ha, Kidman counters the Bronco Buster with a foot to the balls.

KIDMAN WINS~! Brings the score up to 3-1 now. Fans cheer even though the WWF just lost a match. This was solid stuff.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


TORRIE AND STACY TALKING ABOUT THEIR TITS AND ASSES.

OOOOOO STACE, YOU DO HAVE A FIRM ASS! (FAP FAP FAAAAAAP)


*Raven Vs William Regal*

Johnny Polo Vs Steve "Real Man" Regal.

Even REGAL gets a babyface reaction. Suck it, X-Pac .

:lmao "THIS INVASION STARTED TONIGHT WHEN CHAVO GUERRERO JR GOT A BIG VICTORY OF THE WWF'S SCOTTY 2 HOTTY" :lmao a BIG victory for Chavo Jr is beating Scotty :lmao.

"Will trade PS2 for a ride on Russian Space Shuttle" :lmao GOAT sign ever.

Match is really slow and dull. Regal really took his time to get into the grove in WWF I think. Outside of a few matches I don't think he really got into the swing of things until like 02.

Tazz shows up and suplexes Regal, Raven hits the DDT and this is done. Thank fuck.

*Rating: 3/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Big Show, Billy Gunn & Albert Vs Hugh Morris, Kanyon & Shawn StasiaK*

SHOW GUNNS~!

ALBERT is IC champ. I remember those days . Plus, he won it from KANE. Yeah, those fucking KANE VS ALBERT matches. :mark:

OMG MR PERFECT! MR PERFECT HAS RETURNED!!! No wait it's just Stasiak's theme. Because. I dunno.

TRIPLE BODY PRESS SLAM. LOOK AT THE POWER OF THE WWF. BLATANT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF STASIAK GETTING BLACKBALLED FROM THE WWF IN LATE 99 FOR BEING USELESS AND SHITTY AND A CUNT.

Albert is a one man ARSE KICKING MACHINE. With a giant head.

CHARLES ROBINSON FAN CLUB. Some amazing signs in the crowd.

CHARLES ROBINSON BEST HAIR IN THE BIZ. They just keep getting better :lmao.

:lmao Stasiak hits Sting's finisher on Billy Gunn so Hugh Morris can pin him for the win, but the dumb bastard gets confused and is actually trying to pin Gunn himself WHILE MORRIS IS COVERING HIM :lmao.

WCW/ECW get the win but Big Show destroys everyone afterwards. 3-3 now, BUT Chavo got that BIG win on Heat earlier so technically I guess it could be 3-4 in favour of the Alliance! Booooo! Alliance suck! They not WWF!

This was mildly entertaining.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


THAT LITTLE GOB SHIT TAZZ. Regal pissed off + English swearing = :mark:.


*Tajri Vs Tazz*

Tajiri is Regal's assistant or... something. And Tazz just screwed Regal out of a match. So Regal fires up Tajiri and good GOD would you really want Tajiri fucked off at you? He'd kick your face so hard... well you'd die. No fancy/funny lines there. HE'D MOTHERFUCKING KILL YOU.

I hope this only gets like 2 minutes. TAJIRI MINI-MATCHES :mark:.

First move of the match is a kick :mark:.

Tajiri kicks. Tazz suplexes. They fight on the mat MMA style. 

Perhaps lasts longer than I would have liked (crazy I know), but :mark: this was fun. GREEN MIST. KICK TO THE FACE. TAJIRI IS GOAT.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


:lmao BOB HOLLY is the big attraction in WWF New York. He beats up a fan wearing a WCW shirt. I THINK HE WAS A PLANT.


*Jeff Hardy Vs RVD - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

:mark: Only 1 title gets defended at this show and it's the hardcore title :mark:.

Oh man, how awesome was THAT? Jeff goes for a running cross body, RVD ducks and then hits a standing moonsault the moment Jeff crashes on the mat!

IRON MIKE SHARPE RULES. My god, these fucking signs man.

Great to see a bunch of crazy spots here that at the time weren't over done to shit. Plus, helps that both RVD and Jeff were capable of doing them without fucking them up to hell .

Oh man, RVD getting back up after being powerbombed on the floor only to see Hardy on top of a fucking ladder is amazing. He nearly shits himself and runs into the ring out of the way :lmao. Then pushes the ladder over and DAMN Jeff crashes HARD on the fucking FLOOR.

VAN DAMINATOR~! Hardy falls into the pit of hell that is the giant random hole in the middle of the entrance ramp lol.

RVD being able to bounce on his head and fold himself up like a porn star certainly allows from some unique and sick looking bumps lol .

Finish is... retarded as fuck. 5 Star Frog Splash onto Jeff, with the hardcore title belt on Jeff's stomach. Which would do fuck all to Jeff and hurt RVD :lmao.

Aside from that, this is :mark:. One of my favourite hardcore title matches. Even JR says so. He also says he doesn't know how many stars we'll give it. Well, I'll let you in on my STARS~! Jim .

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Lita & Trish Stratus Vs Stacy Keibler & Torrie Wilson - Special Guest Referee Mick Foley - Bra & Panties Match*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

FAP FAP.

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

FAP.

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

FAP FAP FAP FAP.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The Undertaker, Kane, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle & Chris Jericho Vs DDP, Rhyno, The Dudley Boys & Booker T*

As bad as the Invasion angle was on the whole, I just LOVED it at the time. Hell I'm still entertained AS FUCK watching it these days. It's GOOD, it's just not what it could have and SHOULD have been. I accept that and just take it for how it is.

The Austin "return" was fucking EPIC. I wasn't even a fan of the guy at this time (in 2001 when I saw it as it happened obviously), but damn, even I was marking out like fuck for it. When he ran in and just fucking DESTROYED the entire Alliance was epic. Oh, and how GREAT was that backstage motivation speech segment with FREDDIE BLASSY? GOAT Old Man. Always loved when he did voice overs for PPV videos too.

Hearing Stephanie McMahon announced as the owner of ECW is hilarious. Though I wouldn't mind going EXTREME with STEPHANIE FAP FAP.

JR on Booker T: "HE'S NO RIC FLAIR, HE'S NO STING". I 100% agree with the Flair comment... but Sting? I'd say they are about even in terms of sucking . Though Sting is infinitely more popular and DOES have those great Vader matches that make Booker T's best matches look like Booker T's worst matches.

DAT ANGLE POP. Still can't believe they turned him heel when he was SO HOT at the time. Then the revealed it was planned and he was helping the WWF. And remained heel still. WHAT?

A brawl erupts before Austin can even get out from behind the curtain, when Undertaker charges after DDP. 10 MAN FIGHT to start this match off :mark:.

BUBBA fucking eats a huge punch from Austin and takes an awesome bump off the apron. BUBBA~!

They (announcers) bring up that Jericho stormed into Vince's office and begged to be on Team WWF to prove his loyalty. Interesting thought, who could have been on the team instead of Jericho at the time? Big Show so they could have a GIANT (after all he was in the Survivor Series one)? Can't think of anyone else tbh. HHH and Benoit were injured, Rock wasn't available to return quite yet due to HOLLYWOOD.

Did we ever get a Bubba Vs Undertaker match? Because they have a small interaction during this match and they looked to have potential together. I only remember tags and the handicap "let's kill Paul bearer" match.

Man, this might have the single longest Babyface Shine Period of ANY match ever lol. Team WWF absolutely dominate for what seems like forever. But a good forever because this never gets dull or boring and watching all the WWF guys get tagged in and cause shit is :mark:.

Just when you think Team WCW are gonna start their control segment, someone new gets tagged on and runs over the Alliance lol. OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY on Bubba looks awesome. BUBBA seems to be the best guy on his team in this match lol. Certainly the guy doing shit I remember and feel the need to mention.

Kurt Angle ends up being the guy that the Alliance control. Which is somewhat surprising. Probably should have been Jericho imo. LOL, Angle can't escape a headlock from DDP. DDP IS TEH BESTESTEST TECHNIKALS WRASSLER EVA!

Eventually Undertaker gets fucked off and charges in after DDp while the refee is just like "Hey guys, can we like, go back to a normal tag match now please? Pretty please?"

Everyone charges in now, and it spills to the outside and we gets some :mark: super fun 5 on 5 brawling all over the place. LAST RIDE TO CHARLES ROBINSON.

DDP and Undertaker fuck off into the crowd somewhere. Hmmm... Undertaker takes out a referee and spends a crazy amount of time brawling in the crowd? What it is, WM 17? 

CHOKESLAM TO D-VON THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE!!! MONITOR TO THE FACE OF KANE!!! DOUPLE SUPLEX THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE!!! KANE IS DONE!!!

RHYNO THROUGH A TABLE! RHYNO THROUGH A TABLE! JERICHO JUST THREW HIMSELF OFF THE APRON AND RHYNO AND THEY WENT THROUGH A TABLE!

This leaves us with Booker T and Angle in the ring. Austin apparently has fucked up his knee, but for some reason nobody brings it up. Like, AT ALL.

Bubba and Booker try to double team Angle in the ring, but those MOVES~! of Angle save him for the time being.

Vince throws the WWF title belt into the ring for Angle, but Shane grabs it first and takes out Vince! ANGLE SLAM TO BOOKER! THE ANKLE LOCK! BOOKER IS TAPING BUT THERE IS NO REFEREE! AUSTIN BRINGS ONE INTO THE RING... THEN OMG!!! OMG!!! STUNNER TO ANGLE! WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?!?!? AUSTIN JUST TURNED HIS BACK ON THE WWF! AUSTIN JUST SCREWED US ALL!!!

 Austin turned on the WWF! SHOCKING finish to say the least. The Alliance has beaten the WWF! Great match. Lasts forever but never drags or feels THAT long. Good stuff overall and I likes it a lot. Not as good as the Survivor Series match is (based on memory), but still one hell of a 10 man tag to really kick-start the Invasion.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

InVasion was a very entertaining show, regardless of the overall dissapointment it was.

Also, you wanna talk overrated RR PPV's? _(While still not a bad event at all tbh)_ *2-0-0-8.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal, Booker T's 7 match series with Benoit in 1998 was awesome, how dare you hate on Book like that and think you can get away with it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ONE match in that best of 7 series was good. ONE. And it's still not Booker T's best match .


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

Is the 2008 RR actually rated?

I thought the general consensus consisted of two reactions...

zOMG it's JOHN CENA! Oh ahem wait! Booooo Cena sucks!

and...

Jeff Harvey.

The rest rarely if ever gets a mention, even though I thought Edge/Mysterio was a quality championship match and served as a preview for their later interactions inside the Elimination Chamber.

ANYWAYS!

While I wait for the new HHH doco I want to ask you guys a little something...what did you make of the In Your House set? As somebody who had barely seen any matches on the set, I thought it was one of the better compilations has ever released and the first disc and a half is absolute gold.

'Dat Final Four

'Dat Canadian Stampede

You guys with me?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

IYH set looked like it had a decent match listing but still missed out a bunch of stuff. I WANTED HIAC IN HIGH DEF DAMMIT.

RR 08 is a pretty great event overall. WWE and WHC matches are both really good. RR match is one I used to HATE with a passion but warmed up on it quite a lot on last watch. I'm probably one of the very, very few people who can legitimately say I didn't in any way mark out for Cena's return. Complete surprise? Absolutely. But the MOMENT he came out I remember just groaning because the match went from "who the fuck is gonna win?" to "urgh, Cena is winning".


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

As someone who used to order every In Your House, most of the early shows were 1-2 match shows, at best. Lots of filler, even for a 2-hour PPV. There was tons more emphasis on the IC title back then, though, which was nice. There are definitely some gems from that series of PPVs. The undercard left a lot to be desired in 95 and 96, though. Aside from the guys fighting over the IC title (Ramon, HBK, etc), there were some terrible gimmicks. 

The later IYH events had some great stuff (Mind Games, Badd Blood, Over the Edge 98, etc).


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

If memory serves, it seemed like it was obvious that Hunter was going to win that Rumble right up until the 30th competitor. At least. that's how I remember it because it was like the first time I felt like Cena truly saved the day...

and then Hunter ends up appearing in the WWE championship match anyways which ruins the significance of Cena's return.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*The MSG crowd really made that RR 08 PPV good, how they reacted in the Edge-Rey match, how energetic they were through Orton-Hardy, the Flair stuff in the beginning, and there chants and reactions during the Rumble match were great with the Cena pop, it definitely wouldn't of been as special if it wasn`t in MSG.

Then again I'm a New Yorker so I'm biased when it comes to my city.*


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

The WWE always seems to bring their A game to the MSG - or at least try to. I wouldn't mind sitting through a bunch of past MSG events. Nothing too crazy, I'm only talking about as far back as the Attitude era and see what holds up and what doesn't.

I was hoping that the MSG set would be able to fill that void but from what I was told it was one of the worst sets the WWE has released in awhile.

HHH update: 94.4% folks! That's Heisenberg level!


----------



## YoungGun_UK (Jul 26, 2011)

XWT Down :HHH

Is HHH's DVD out? watching that tonight with tommorow off would be BEST FOR BUSINESS :HHH2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

XWT goes up and down about 20 times a day. Quite literally lol. Most unstable I've seen it. PWT is the same these days too. Crazy. Glad I got the HHH documentary already . Almost finished watching it. SPOILER: It's quite possibly THE best documentary I've ever seen in my entire life and I gotta say I didn't think I would ever say that.

And I'm not because it's not and I'm joking 8*D.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)




----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

PWT is working and the HHH DVD is up, freeleach everything.


----------



## bboy (May 22, 2005)

I see the triple h doc is a chance for a load of ass kissers to get on camera and say how great triple h is. Ego trip and also a chance for some superstars to get noticed by the coo


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

watched the HHH/Rock RAW match that was posted on the WWE YouTube page yesterday. LOL at that Earl Hebner aggresion, ***1/2 for the match, a really fun one


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So HHH doc is done with. Overall it's ok, decent, nothing special tbh. Not one I feel I'd bother watching again. I just don't see myself being interested in seeing it a billion times like I have with say Punk's documentary. I'm not a fan of Edge really yet I've seen his documentary quite a few times. This one just didn't do much for me. Plus, fuck me, they skipped over SO MUCH. There is one part where it's like "Hey, let's create a group. Evolution. Oh and then I brought back DX". Completely skipped over like 2 years in about a minute. And they completely skipped over his 2000 year too aside from mention a couple of Rock matches. They skipped over A TON. An absolutely TON of stuff. Which is a shame. The one thing I really liked about it though is that the only people talking on it where people instrumental in his career/big stars. Undertaker, Foley, Shawn, Gunn/Dogg/X-Pac, Regal, Vince, Stephanie, JR and a few others. None of this bullshit with Miz talking about marking out for a DX promo when he was in high school or some bullshit like that. So gotta give probs for that. Aside from that, nothing special about this documentary whatsoever tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for the lulz, Orton/Cody or Orton/Goldie?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Definitely Orton/Goldie

And Cal, they didn't want to make the documentary 3+ hours long (why? I don't know, I would certainly watch a 4 hour wrestling documentary if it was on the level of Foleys/Punks/or Jerichos) so they inevitably had to gloss over stuff for a guy whose career spans 2 full decades, not to mention his early life and his office life. Personally, I would have cut out ALL of the office stuff at the end, chopped the Steph section in half, then gone in depth about his Foley series in 2000, Evolution, and more with Brock Lesnar in the end. Maybe talk about Jeff too. That's just me though.

I thought it was very good, I'm not disappointed AT ALL. For a wrestler I would never claim to be a fan of, it had me pretty damn entertained for 2+ hours. I'm sure Trips marks will use it as pornography for the next 2 years, as the guy is painted as a cross between Mother Theresesa, Casanova, Ghandi, and the Pope. I'd love for him to address the mass amount of criticism he's received over the years for all his locker room politicking. But meh, can't expect him to even lend credence to the complaints by talking about them.

Best WWE Documentaries:

1. Mick Foley
2. CM Punk
3. Bret Hart
4. Jake Roberts
5. HBK
6. Chris Jericho
7. Chris Benoit
8. Rise and Fall of WCW/ECW
9. Edge
10. The Road Warriors
11. The Rocks
12. Triple H


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched the Bluray extras for the HHH doc. Pretty much another hour of documentary lol. Just another reason that BR releases are better . And as usual, they put things on as extras that should have been in the actual documentary over some random shit they put in lol. That being said, still nothing amazing here. Just nice to have him talk a little more about the WM 28 match with Undertaker, WM match with Brock and some other random shit (movies).

"The Levesque Game" is kinda fun . Shows how little they know about each other .


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm guessing next year we get a Daniel Bryan set. JBL wouldn't surprise me either. I want a Taker documentary when he retires as well.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The match listing for the triple h DVD looks awful

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Finally done with 2007 now I've made it to the Benoit tribute show and man, this is one tough show to sit through. It's just so sad to hear everyone talk about how he was all about respect and that he'll be missed only for everyone to distance themselves from him soon after, not to mention how excited Chris himself sounds when they recap his documentary.
> 
> Don't know if he's a regular repper, but I have never gotten it from the King Cal either.


Same here. I remember that night like it was yesterday. Don't really remember my reaction to the obvious cause of death, though.



Brye said:


> What are the official rules of the Cal Scale? I want to use it to see how my favorites PPVs stack up side by side.
> 
> God, I remember watching that Benoit tribute show live.


Same. :\ I wonder if the full show is on YouTube and not just in parts (Not a fan of watching stuff in parts on YouTube, tbh).


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I still have that Benoit tribute show on tape somewhere. I haven't watched it in five years though.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*The one thing I vividly remember about that Benoit tribute, was Regal's testimony. He seemed to be the only one who knew what went on and for some reason that kinda just stuck out for me. 

I try to stay away from the tribute shows especially RAW is Owen or Eddie's RAW one. *


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree that they completely jumped a lot of stuff that they probably should have talked about. I could have done with less about Steph and Trips first hooking up. Pat Patterson singing at the wedding though is pretty cool. 

I do think that Triple H is charge of the whole thing makes most people that work there fear for their lives a bit less. He seems a lot more easy to talk to, and work with, while Vince has been painted as the crazy maniacal one that people are afraid of. 

I was glad we got as much Taker commentary as we did. The image of them getting to back gorilla after the HIAC match at Mania with Taker and Trips embracing, then Taker pulling Shawn back in and they're all three hugging is pretty cool. Then Trips and Vince embracing and Vince is all emotional is really something. 

Disappointed I couldn't get the Blu-Ray for the extras, but maybe I'll see them at some point.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

rjsbx1 said:


> *The one thing I vividly remember about that Benoit tribute, was Regal's testimony. He seemed to be the only one who knew what went on and for some reason that kinda just stuck out for me.
> 
> I try to stay away from the tribute shows especially RAW is Owen or Eddie's RAW one. *


Apparently him and David Taylor or whatever his name is went to his house the night Benoit was snapping 'cause he apparently invited Regal to the house to watch some wrestling tapes or something among those lines. I would say more but I forgot the rest.

I read that on YouTube comments on the video of him talking on the tribute show, and they seemed pretty serious, but then again, it is YouTube so... But anyway, now I'm rambling lol So that's probably why Regal seemed a little off in his testimony. I also think Dean Malenko seemed a bit off in his, as well. Now obviously because he just lost one of his best friends, but not just that, I feel like it might've been a similar reason why Regal was suspicious; Perhaps he might've knew that he could've possibly killed his own family & himself as well?

But who knows.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Still downloading HHH's DVD atm and it went from nearly 3 MB/s to barely 300 kb/s. 

Put the first disc on high priority so it's at 80% while the other parts have gotten started. Skimmed through the downloaded portions and am happy to say that I saw Benoit's leg outside the ring when HHH was holding his leg after the injury. :yes


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Found a little side activity to throw around my Dangerous Alliance project. Going to try draw up a small 'Best of the '80s' comp & list for myself. And I start my journey with one of the very few dozen good matches thrown out by the WWF in the 1980s.


*Ron Garvin vs Greg Valentine MSG 9/30/89*

Two grizzled, beach blond veteran wrestlers in a fight for the death. What can be better? Very little. When you think of wrestlers of the '80s, unfortunately these two guys fall into the shadows. Greg Valentine was always the poor, ugly Ric Flair. And Ron Garvin never stood out. While undoubtably a tough bastard to the core, outside of his matches with Flair and Blanchard, he didn't have much to show for him. As for Valentine, I only truely remember his match with Piper before he settled into a career of mid-card mediocrity in the WWF.

So, what makes this match worth the review? Pure slugfest worked in with some solid storytelling and a fight to the death. The main story behind it was Valentine 'retired' Garvin, with the latter forcing a rematch through persistent hostile interactions with Valentine. So with Valentine hoping to put Garvin down once and for all, to the back of his mind, Garvin has some other intentions. And thus gives birth to such a hostile match. Very well worked from the wild punches & chops, into the resthold period and the ending stretch of trying to put the other man away for the pinfall.

A good story to boot, frantic brawl and some scenes of desperation as both men try to end their war. Great stuff. ***1/4. Whether it'll make the overall list, who knows.​


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Still downloading HHH's DVD atm and it went from nearly 3 MB/s to barely 300 kb/s.
> 
> Put the first disc on high priority so it's at 80% while the other parts have gotten started. Skimmed through the downloaded portions and am happy to say that I say Benoit's leg outside the ring when HHH was holding his leg after the injury. :yes


For real? :lmao It's not surprising considering they've pulled shit like that before with Benoit sightings in clips but that's funny. I saw his tights and legs in the trailer for Edge's DVD when that came out and whenever they showed it during RAW commercials or SmackDown I went "OMG BENOIT!!". :lol I also believe you can see some of his tights when they discuss the first MITB match on Edge's DVD, too.

But yeah, I get they just show his tights and legs because they think the current fans won't recognize who that is, and I'm sure a lot of them (especially the kids) don't.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the main event of Summerslam 1989. I can't be the only one who watched this at the time and rooted for Savage/Deebo right? :deebo


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Another little addition to my '80s side project.

*Ricky Steamboat vs Randy Savage 07/22/86*

Personally never heard of this match until I saw it on a DVDVR listing. But, ~LOVE~ it. Much more gritty and 'sadistic' predecessor to their Wrestlemania match-up. Felt it came across as a very Memphis style match-up where it's a bit of everything and anything. Has the emotional connection, every move was sold as a tragedy of war and they built up for the perfect pay-off (their rematch at Wrestlemania). Only grievance was the referee antics at the start, but other it's exceptional stuff. Whether I enjoy it over their Wrestlemania match, maybe I'll have to give that another watch back-to-back. Might fix up a proper review instead of a shitty little summary.
****1/4​
Now to have an inner conflict of whether I want to watch Pillman/Morton from 11/23/91 episode of WCW Pro. Actually can't remember whether it was Pro or 11/24/91 Main Event. I think it came before a 15 minute match between Tracy Smothers & Mr Hughes. Which baffled me. That being said, Hayes/Garvin vs Young Pistols was great, great fun. *** maybe? IDK. Hayes is just fucking incredible when he wants to be. Episode date 11/23/91.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Just watched half of the Royal Rumbles Matches of the 2000's. Once, I finish I'll post some opinions and ratings.

On a side note, watching the 2004 RR and Ernest Miller dancing (along with Taz singing the song) while Orton and Krispen Wah are down is some of the funniest shit in a Royal Rumble match.

JR and Taz on commentary for '04 and '05 Rumbles are gold. :lmao*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I got in a bit of a Kurt Angle mood (go ahead and talk shit, I'm waiting) after watching the No DQ match from Unforgiven 2000 on the Trips set and it not holding up as well as I remembered. So I popped in Angle vs Austin SS01'. Wow. Every time I watch this match, it just keeps getting better and better. Really tempted to say its worth "the full 5". Am I crazy or is this really one of the 20 greatest matches in WWE history? It's up there with Austin/Foley OTE as my favorite Austin match ever. Absolutely flawless, Kurt's baby face performance is spot on, and Austin is just a complete maniac. This is undisputedly the best match Kurt Angle ever had. Wow.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember watching most of the Savage/Steamboat matches multiple times, but in all honesty, the only one that I can remember and differentiate from the others is their WM match. Maybe that's why it's their best match they had together.

COTC 2 on the way.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I remember watching most of the Savage/Steamboat matches multiple times, but in all honesty, the only one that I can remember and differentiate from the others is their WM match.


That'd make sense. Steamboat gets his throat crushed by Savage so he tries to get his revenge multiple times, but that always resulted in DQ, so they kind of had the same 'Steamboat tries to get revenge and costs himself the match in anger' bout a few times. Then at Mania he cools down and tries to win the title, because his anger got him nowhere, and it results in a different match from the rest.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WWE's YT channel has got a lot of good full-matches on there now, gonna watch a couple, just BOMBED my exam Good lord, so I need to relieve some stress

Thoughts on hbk/diesel vs. yoko/bulldog IYH ?


----------



## Cryme Tyme (Sep 9, 2006)

Watching the mid south DVD now, the Duggan/Dibiase cage is really good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Redskins: its nothing special, probably ** 3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Really, I thought it was decent, yoko was awesome, only flaws was they stood around alot and noting was happening ***


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Never been a fan of Yokozuna unless if he is sitting on top of a bunch of jobbers. Sorry, Yeah1993, fatties don't interest me.

Except for the GOAT :henry1


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Never been a fan of Yokozuna unless if he is sitting on top of a bunch of jobbers. Sorry, Yeah1993, fatties don't interest me.
> 
> Except for the GOAT :henry1


Vader? Bam Bam Bigelow? Terry Gordy? Kamala? TELL ME YOU LIKE KAMALA!!!!????!!!???


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody, funnyfaces or Yeah how is sting/meng TGAB 95 ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Only Kamala match I liked was the one he had with Bryan >_>

Vader is king. I can always watch Vader. Bigelow is a goon too. Love watching him. Gordy is a saint, but I didn't think of him when thinking of fatties for whatever reason.

EDIT: Greg, I really liked Sting/Meng from GAB 95. Granted, I was in a huge Meng phase the last time I watched it, but it should hold up. Some people do think that it's pretty boring though. Especially the Meng control portions.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Thy Kingdom Come finally finished downloading! This should be good. To get back to the topic a couple of pages back regarding Benoit's role in the injury chapter, I also saw another clip of HHH limping to the ring and hitting Stone Cold with the sledgehammer for the finish. Benoit is sitting on the other corner and is clearly visible (except his face), specially on the titantron.

Now it's documentary time for a bit! :mark: UNDERTAKER TALKING! :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I always liked Gordy but have really come to appreciate him more lately. What a hoss. I guess he wasn't "fat" per se.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Summarized Review of Royal Rumble Matches 2000-2009*

*2000 RR ****
Taka's face hitting the floor is all the :lmao, but pretty meh action. Road Dogg GOAT strategy of hugging the ropes. Rock-Show ending sets up a good story which leads to 2/4 of my least favorite Wrestlemania main event. MVP of the Rumble: The Rock.

*2001 ****1/2*
DOMINANT KANE. Holy fuck, 11 people eliminated. DREW CAREY, whatta dork. Every segment seemed to make sense at the end, from Trips jumping Austin, Show decimating Rock. Although, I can't justify Billy Gunn being in the Final Four with Austin, Rock and the MVP Kane. An awesome ending. Side note, Rikishi's Bad Man theme still one of my faves.

*2002 ******
Despite the entrances lasting way too long (Trips for example), Perfect/Angle interaction is just one my wrestling fantasies. Four suprise entrances, Rikishi's WAY too long Stinkface, Maven elimianting Taker, Maven getting his ass whooped by Taker and the an awesome final 5-10 minutes made this a great rumble. Told a great story and good action and entertainment all around. MVP is Austin.

*2003 *** 3/4*
Chris Jericho carried a good portion of the Rumble from the HBK elimination to the various transitions. Definitely the MVP. The first couple of minutes are good action Y2J-Christian-Edge-Mysterio...with a who's who of entrants B-2, DeMott and poor Harvard Chris. Too many big lumbering guys at once (3MW, Test, Kish, Kane and Taker) at the end. Solid Lesnar/Taker/Tista/Kane at the end. Nice touch with Taker and Lesnar though.
*
2004 *** 3/4*
The Rumble no one won. In all seriousness, Benoit with that MVP effort, Orton's a close second. They shined in a boring first 20-30 minutes. Ernest Miller provides the :lmao for like a minute, too bad no one gave a shit. Foley/Orton, Lesnar/Goldberg with quality storytelling interactions, Nunzio with the second best RR strategy but he got KILLED by Goldberg. The Show/Benoit end kinda dragged but a good RR and made Benoit legit.

*2005 ****1/2 *
My favorite personal RR: Great final four ending, McMahon tears a quad, memorable eliminations (London and Hassan) and Eddie and Benoit carried the first part of the rumble. Awesome Eddie/Benoit HBK/Angle, Cena/Batista interactions, Puder gets the shit beat out of him. Simon Dean provides the lols. MVP goes to Eddie. 

*2006 ****
Welp, Mysterio gets that Eddie sympathy win but Trips was the real MVP. Mysterio laid around for seemingly forever, while Trips actually had good interactions throughout (Show, Flair, Orton, HBK) so he's definitely MVP. Really bland and boring RR, and pointless early eliminations of quality guys like Benoit in leiu of guys like Jordan and Viscera who just clogged the ring. Just a big clusterfuck(at one point 15 guys at once) with a decent and predictable ending. 

*2007 ****
The ending is everything--Taker/HBK really redeemed how underwhelming this Rumble was. Edge, Finlay and Khali shined--the latter being dominant without having to do much. This rumble just seemed to drag on forever and was ultimately a really underwhelming Rumble sans the ending. Co-MVP's are Taker and HBK, obviously. Oh, and some decent Sabu/Dreamer "ECW" action in the beginning. 

*2008 ***
Michael Buffer, HBK and Taker opening, Cena's shocking return, Piper/Snuka interaction with everyone watching is STILL the coolest thing ever. 5 commentators calling the match got old really fast considering all you hear is "WOW" and "OH MY" each five minutes. The elimination were pretty uninspired and anything involving Hornswoggle annoys the living hell out of me. Good final four, but funny to see how far Cena's star at and how stalled Batista's one. MVP goes too....Cena I guess. Gotta respect that he came back early and made this Rumble semi-watchable.

*2009 ****
As you see the quality of the Rumble's just aren't impressive as time goes on. This Rumble had one thing that others didn't...a team stay intact and not double-cross each other. Orton and Legacy told a brilliant story of doing whatever it takes to get Orton to Mania. The finish sequence is good, and finally a heel wins the damn Rumble. BUT despite a cool return (RVD) and good performances from Jericho, Mysterio (who was better here than '06) and Punk...a lot of people just filling the ring and devaluing the point of skinning the cat. It's cool if you do it in a dramatic spot but it shouldn't happen 8-9 times a match. Eliminations seemed meaningless and essentially the only story told was Trips-Legacy. MVP goes to Orton/Legacy for good storytelling.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

FINALLY getting a chance to watch the most anticipated WWE home video release in my lifetime.

LOSING IT HERE.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Clash of the Champions II: Miami Mayhem*​*NWA United States Championship*
Brad Armstrong vs. Barry Windham - ****1/4*

*NWA United States Tag Team Championship*
The Sheepherders vs. The Fantastics - ****1/2*

The Varsity Club vs. The Garvins - **3/4*

Al Perez vs. Nikita Koloff - ****3/4*

*NWA World Tag Team Championship*
Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard vs. Sting and Dusty Rhodes - ****1/4*​
-Prior to watching the opener, I heard bad things about Armstrong/Windham. Most of the complaints ranged from it being boring to Windham being really unnatural as a heel. I'm not the biggest fan of heel Windham, but Windham is Windham so he should be able to do something real good, especially with a good wrestler like Armstrong. Have to say that this match was actually pretty good. Lots of nice hope spots for the underdog Armstrong, especially in the very end when he goes crazy. Windham plays the jerk heel really well and it adds to the whole dynamic of Armstrong needing to work upward against the champ. The match did get pretty boring towards the resthold portion of the middle and Armstrong did forget to sell the leg, but it was still a good match.

-The US Title match was trying to invoke the same chaos and anarchy that the Fantastics/Midnight Express match had at COTC I, but with all due respect to the Sheepherders, they are not the Midnight Express. With that said, there was still lots of fun stuff here that was made even better by the awesomeness of the Fantastics. Never realized how athletic Tommy Rogers was. This match was definitely good, but it went on a bit too long and it got to the point where I stopped caring about a lot of things that I probably should have. The Fantastics did do this cool multiple pinfall thing in the middle of the match and The Sheepherders did make a good use of weapons. Watch this match if you want some fun Fantastics action. Those dudes rule. I heard these two teams had a classic match a couple years prior, but I can't seem to find it.

-This next tag match was a continuation of the feud that predominated the opening match of COTC I. Can't say I was really that interested in this match. Skip. Ronnie Garvin was pretty cool. He was also Jimmy's storyline brother and real-life stepfather.

-Now this is the kind of match that gives me reason to do this project. On paper, this doesn't look very impressive even though I'm a fan of face Nikita Koloff. I mean who the heck is Al Perez? Well he's a beast, that's who. Dude is a wrestling machine that can bump pretty well and shows some nice aggressiveness with his grapples and strikes. This match is for fans of Finlay and Regal that love to watch constant "struggling" going on with every hold and every maneuver. Unexpectedly hot crowd here too that hate Al Perez for whatever reason and love Koloff. Ending was kinda disappointing, but I am now an Al Perez fan.

-Main event tag was pretty fun but nothing extraordinary. I would compare it to those Shield tag matches that we acknowledge as being good, but not something that we would rave about weeks from then. Pace is really fast but we don't get as good of a FIP segment as I thought I would see. There just wasn't enough time for me to despise the heels until Blanchard cuts off a tag and Arn DDTs Sting on the outside. I never really thought I would enjoy Dusty Rhodes in the ring as much as I did here. He's actually really fun even if he is very limited.

I heard a lot about how this was a really disappointing show full of poor matches, but I have to say that I had lots of fun with it. Nothing classic like COTC I, but four good matches and a hot crowd. I don't know if I would say that this is a show you should go out of your way to watch, but it did lead me to watch more stuff from wrestlers I was not very familiar with such as Brad Armstrong, The Fantastics, and Al Perez. For that, I am more than satisfied. I heard COTC III is really good. Can't wait to watch it.

It should also be worth noting that there were a lot of bad non-wrestling segments here, but I just skipped them. Flair had some nice comedic stuff though, especially in the yacht contract signing with Luger.


----------



## Paul Rudd (Oct 23, 2010)

Triple H doco was pretty good. I was disappointed that they skipped over HHH/Foley 2000 program. There was also barely any coverage of 2002-2005. I also would have liked to hear more about his 2nd injury. I thought the office stuff at the end was interesting; I got the feeling that he loves being hands on with creative and developmental, but isn't to keen on his other corporate roles.

The blu ray extras were also interesting. I liked the story Rock told about they're late night workouts.

So yeah I enjoyed it and will watch it again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Raw After Mania 2013. Still a terrific show, and I can say that Barrett/Miz is the absolute sleeper of the year at ***1/2. *Dat crowd.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did I really see Cal think the tag team bra and panties match is > Edge & Christian vs Awesome & Storm from Invasion?



redskins25 said:


> Cody, funnyfaces or Yeah how is sting/meng TGAB 95 ?


It's good. Watch that, Flair vs Savage, & the fabulous Pillman vs Wright match from the show and you're good. Truth be told, I don't remember if the tag team championship match is good, but it should be.

Also, random tidbit, I love Yokozuna.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Did I really see Cal think the tag team bra and panties match is > Edge & Christian vs Awesome & Storm from Invasion?


Well, a *Trish & Lita/Torrie & Stacy Bra & Panties match* >>>> all.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No.


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Anyone have Rock/Austin WMXIX >>> WMX-7?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes. Fucking YES.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I fear for the day I lower my standards on wrestling like that. 8*D


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Why?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Bra and panties matches are bullshit. There are plenty of places for boobage in order for me to not give a shitty shit about them appearing on wrestling. Plus when they wrestle they look awkward as fuck and can't execute a move properly so it looks like they're getting sweaty and weird for no reason. Sweatiness is kind of sexy in a 'heavy breathing all night sex' way, but in a 'wrestling like an untrained kindergartener' way, bleh. I'm not really into athletic women anyway, I like it when they're weak as shit and can't do a single push-up. It's adorable. "C'mon, honey, you can do it! (_NO YOU CAN'T AND IT'S CUTE THAT YOU CAN'T_)"

Wait what fucking thread am I in right now? Ignore me. I've said too much, you all have 27 hours before detonation.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I wanted to watch random broad A touch random dame B in a awkward looking manner, I'd so much as go watch pornography; not wrestling.

Visceral image/thought process or what have you. Point needed to come across. Without personal, possibly unintentional(?), gender slights via preference like ^.


----------



## Catsaregreat (Sep 15, 2012)

So is this how HHH's 3 disc documentary goes?

Disc 1: Riding HBK's dick to the midcard

Disc 2: Dating Steph to the main event

Disc 3: Marrying Steph to get control of the WWE


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Catsaregreat said:


> So is this how HHH's 3 disc documentary goes?
> 
> Disc 1: Riding HBK's dick to the midcard
> 
> ...



:lmao

You nailed it, :lol

You just forgot one thing:

Disc 4: Proceeding to have the same generic no DQ match over and over while part time wrestling for the next 4 years. No matter if you're in the ring with all time greats like Taker or Lesnar. Lean on the sledgehammer gimmick so heavily some wonder if you can even walk without it.

Edit- I completely agree about Bra and Panties matches or really 90% of the Divas matches. AJ is really the only bright spot, because her character work is so good. I don't need wrestling to see hot chicks, when I'm watching wrestling I want to see actual ability and entertaining matches. Not a bunch of failed actresses and cheerleaders rolling around and pulling each others hair....Trisha, Lita, Molly Holly, and AJ, maybe Natalya. are really about it as far as women wrestlers of the 2000s that I have a lot of respect for. Those girls could go.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Random question, but what makes everyone think Natalya is a remotely good wrestler? Whenever I watch her she's "less than mediocre" at best. I'd honestly take dames like Layla, Eve and Kaitlyn over Natalya. Hell, I'd instantly drop Natty for Summer Rae or Bayley down in NXT. Although there's a couple dozen unsigned, independent gals I'd happily take over them. But yeah, Natty sucks and I don't know where this notion of her being somewhat decent, even for a WWE Diva, has came from.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I dug the Hart Dynasty with her, DH Smith, and Tyson Kidd. That's really the only reason I threw her name in there, I've only seen probably 5-10 of her matches and there were all just generic divas matches. Plus I loved the Anvil as a kid


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> If I wanted to watch random broad A touch random dame B in a awkward looking manner, I'd so much as go watch pornography; not wrestling.
> 
> Visceral image/thought process or what have you. Point needed to come across. Without personal, possibly unintentional(?), gender slights via preference like ^.


Well wrestling isn't JUST wrestling - it's entertainment. Wheater you want it to admit or not, wrestling IS entertainment. In the world of mainstream wrestling it's not just the in-ring action that counts. Would you rather watch Stacy Keibler get stripped to her bra and panties at the hands of Trish Stratus (FAPFAPFAP) or try to wrestle a match and fail miserably?

For a reason American female wrestlers are considered nothing more than eye candy and if that's how they work better, then that's how they should be used. #Sadomasochist 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Well wrestling isn't JUST wrestling - it's entertainment. Wheater you want it to admit or not, wrestling IS entertainment. In the world of mainstream wrestling it's not just the in-ring action that counts. Would you rather watch Stacy Keibler get stripped to her bra and panties at the hands of Trish Stratus (FAPFAPFAP) or try to wrestle a match and fail miserably?
> 
> For a reason American female wrestlers are considered nothing more than eye candy and if that's how they work better, then that's how they should be used. #Sadomasochist 8*D




You'd rather watch Trish strip Stacy down to her bra and panties than watch AJ Lee vs Kaitlyn or Lita vs Trish? Really? Damn I thought I was in the majority as far as guys that wish WWE would move away from the Divas concept and bring in chicks that can actually GO. Lita was and always will be the gold standard for me, but AJ is showing a similar dedication to her craft that I have to respect.

Edit- I keep forgetting Alundra Blayze, she could wrestle too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No, I didn't mean that. Of course I'd rather watch AJ/Kaitlyn or Trish/Lita delievering a good to great match, that's what I find an obligation as a wrestling fan. I'm talking about the Kelly Kellys and Torrie Wilsons in the world that can't wrestle a match to save their lives and are much better off as being sluts and whatnot. If they for some reason HAVE to be involved in a match situation, just let them rip each others' clothes off instead of watching them botch left from right for Christ sakes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody, I have the bra and panties match the SAME rating as the E&C/Storm&Awesome tag actually. Never said which was better. Until I rank all the matches like I did with 2000. FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP I have an idea which will be ahead though .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*How can we forget such classic bra and panties matches like Kristal vs. Jillian that one Puerto Rican diva (who's name alludes me right now) vs. Torrie, or the MOTYC New Year's Revolution Bra and Panties Gauntlet Match. 

FAP CITY. FAP FAP CITY, y'all.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I don't know how to feel about that HHH documentary.

Fuck.

On Nattie; I once saw her wrestle an amazing bout with Sarah Stock at a local independent show. Wish I had it on disc so that I could pimp it out, but it was honestly the greatest women's match I've ever seen with Nattie's great heel work and Sarah's role as the underdog. 

DARK ANGEL


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'd love to see Sarita wrestle Nattie. Why didn't you tape it, dammit?!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I don't know how to feel about that HHH documentary.
> 
> Fuck.
> 
> ...


Oh come on, I've been dying to see what an actual Triple H fan thinks of it. I'm not a fan of his, I thought it was simply ok, and wayyyy too one sided and glossed over wayyyy too much to waste too much time on Stephanie and being the COO. It started out really, really good and I got psyched for it, then it sort of fell apart at the end when they didn't cover his Foley series in 2000 or Evolution or his awful Reign of Terror or any of that stuff. I swear they spent maybe 15 minutes on 2000-2013, so dumb.

Did you want the Blu-Ray extras? The stories on there are almost another half hour documentary themselves.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

It was an INSANE bout man.

This was back in like.... 2006, and it ruled the fucking planet. I have a Dark Angel comp here with some fucking fantastic shit on it, if only I knew how to put it online for the world to see .

& no thoughts can be shared until I've watched the entire 3 disc DVD. I DON'T HAVE A BLU RAY PLAYER THOUGH, WHICH SUCKS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I really don't care for divas wrestling to be honest, just eye candy. However like some said "bra and panties matches" are the be all end all, although I'd love to see Layla, Summer Rae, and some other dames to compete in them. If I wanted to see girls strip, there is alot of other website I can go to to see it if happen and more :hbk2

Need a ppv to see for the Cal Scale, this scale been plugged alot in the last couple of days


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

How about Backlash 2001? Solid event. Jericho vs Regal is just hilarious. Regal makes his greatest face ever. Maybe the greatest face I've ever seen period. That's including Paul Heymans legendary face work this year.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

VENGEANCE 2003

Edit: Fancy some 2002 shit. Outside of the OBVIOUS Summerslam 2002 GOAT PPV, what's the second best PPV in 02? I can't remember a great deal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Survivor Series 02 is pretty damn awesome. Amazingly fun too.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

FluxCapacitor said:


> VENGEANCE 2003
> 
> Edit: Fancy some 2002 shit. Outside of the OBVIOUS Summerslam 2002 GOAT PPV, what's the second best PPV in 02? I can't remember a great deal.


*Vengeance 2003 was how you do a split-brand PPV properly, Bad Blood 2003, which I'm reviewing right now...is not.
*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Vengeance 03' is :mark:

Eddie vs Benoit stole the show, easily. What a wonderful match that was, I could watch it over and over and never get tired of it.


Edit-Backlash 2001 is pretty good, and No Mercy 2002 is great. Has Brock's best match from his first run, HiaC with Taker. Also Jericho/Christian vs Dust/Book, and one of the GOAT tag matches, Edge/Rey vs Benoit/Angle. Triple H vs Kane....damn No Mercy might be second only to Summerslam 2002 as the best PpV from that year. Go with No Mercy!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any thoughts on Vengeance 2002? I've seen the opening tag team tables match and Benoit is absolutely ruling in that one. RVD vs BROCK is awesome and the triple threat main event is the second greatest match of its kind after the obvious WMXX classic.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Vengeance 03 it is then, or I may just watch eddie/benoit and cena/taker and skip the rest


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

NO

The tag titles rules
Vince vs. Gowen is ridiculously fun
and the triple threat is amazing

those three plus Cena/Taker and Eddie/Benoit make it one of the best PPVs of the decade. You need to watch it all if you're gonna' watch it.

PLUS IT HAS A FRICKIN BAR ROOM BRAWL


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah watch all of V03. Great event. Reviewed it a while back:



Spoiler: Vengeance 03



*WWE Vengeance 27/07/2003*

Haven't seen this show in full since it aired. Often brought up as one of the best PPV's, and certainly one of the best single brand PPV's or all time. Hopefully it can live up to the hype, and looking at the card, if the 3 or 4 matches that look potentially awesome hold up, then I can certainly see myself joining everyone in their claims of this being awesome .

*Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - United States Championship*

:mark: What a way to start off the event! These guys are 2 of the main reasons (along with Undertaker) that I sooo adored Smackdown during this tme period. Just a bunch of great WRESTLERS competing in the ring to prove themselves as the greatest WRESTLER while still being able to throw in personal rivalries and whatnot. Awesome booking 101. Heyman was in charge of SD around this time, right? 

They do a lot of trading holds back and forth with a few pin counters and whatnot too early on. Some people like that, some people don't. Personally, I enjoy it most of the time and I definitely enjoy it here. Helps that both men put in some little touches to everything they do to stop it being so robotic like you got in the Angle/Benoit matches. It not Regal/Finlay/Benoit, but its still good. Plus both men countering things plays into the fact they've known each other for so long, travelled the world, trained together and wrestled each other numerous times in the past. Always better to have an actual history like that when working an "equals" style match like this.

Eventually the back and forth action turns into an Eddie control segment. I love how he starts getting cocky and decides to chop Benoit... who returns the favour... so Eddie just walks over to him and gouges his eye out :lmao. Makes Eddie look like a DICK and plays into the buildup for this match, as Eddie tries to blind Benoit a week ago or something.

Eddie's control segment doesn't last nearly as long as I would have liked, but fuuuck, the whole finishing stretch is just tremendous. Overbooked? Yeah, probably, but good god its awesomely fun. Eddie tries to lie, cheat and steal the title on numerous occasions, the poor referee gets beat up about 3 times, and then Rhino charges in right at the end and GORES Benoit to hell. :lmao at Eddie's reaction. He sees Rhino running for the Gore and thinks he's aiming for HIM, so he just turns and cowers in hopes it won't be so bad, only to realise Benoit got hit. He shrugs his shoulders and takes advantage anyway, winning the US Title!

Awesome opener. Eddie was just incredible with his antics and facial expressions. Benoit was his usual self, which is a great wrestler and intense as fuck, and they work really well together here. These two guys are usually hit and miss together, but not here.

*Rating: *****


*Jamie Noble Vs Billy Gunn - Indecent Proposal Match*

If Noble wins... he gets to shag Torrie on Smackdown. Not every storyline can be a winner, but I'll be dammed if I wasn't invested in this and living vicariously through Jamie Noble .

Noble brings a briefcase with him that is apparently filled with sex toys and oils. Gunn steals it and opens it and we get a nice view of what's inside. Tazz claims that he stole Cole's briefcase .










Match itself is... well Noble is a great wrestler and Gunn is athletic so he bumps alright and hits a couple of nice moves lol. DDT from the ropes by Noble looked awesome, but Nidia made sure Gunn's leg was on the ropes, as she doesn't want her boyfriend sleeping with another women. In the end though, Torrie actually ends up costing Gunn the match by mistake, and she has to shag Noble on Smackdown! Totally remember that episode too lol. Crazy shit happens .

*Rating: ***


*APA Invitational*

A bar scene is build at one side of the stage, and its time for the APA ot beat the shit out of half the Smackdown roster! And the Easter Bunny. Brian Kendrick standing on the bar and dancing to people's theme music as they enter is awesome. Brother Love! Doink the Clown! Woooo!

Brother Love cuts a pretty awesome promo, then takes out 2 random people with a bar stool . Kendrick gets knocked from the bar through a table. LOL. Sean O'Haire punching the Easter Bunny in the face might be the greatest thing ever.

Match is... insane. People taking crazy arse bumps and drinking beer. Awesome. Ton of fun. APA win obviously . I think I might love this more than anyone else in existence.

*Rating: ****


*The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs Billy Kidman & Rey Mysterio - Tag Team Championship*

Hope this lives up to the hype!

Nope. Lol. It was good, but just way too moves-y for my liking. The stuff with Kidman's back was great and really could have been a turning point in the match, but it just didn't last nearly as long as I would have liked, and it wasn't long before Rey was back in the ring flying about. Felt like they were trying to capture the epicness of the No Mercy 2002 tag, and while they got the fast paced action down, they forgot to really tell a story too lol.

:lmao the "BULLSHIT" chant when Hass kicked out of a big double team move from Kidman and Mysterio. Also, HOLY SHIT. Cole calls his fans the Cole Miners! I didn't think he came up with that until his heel turn lol.

*Rating: ***1/4*


*Sable Vs Stephanie McMahon*

Well, time for a bad match on the card. No PPV can be perfect .

At least both women are hot. And wearing somewhat revealing outfits. Commentary is like on giant innuendo too. Makes it interesting to watch lol.

Part of me certainly liked this one .

In all seriousness though, its... not actually that bad. They have plenty of HATE~! and throw some stiff shots (slaps, forearms, elbows etc) no doubt to make it look as good as possible considering Steph isn't a wrestler and Sable is about 4 years past her prime. Gotta love Stephanie trying to get Sable's tits out. Again. She already did it on Smackdown, might as well do it now. Referee gives Sable is shirt to cover her up, while A-Train motherfucking RUNS OVER Stephanie to help Sable win. Holy fuck at that lol. Stephanie took it like a MAN. A very hot man. With tits. And a Vagina. A women, one might say.

*Rating: ***


*The Undertaker Vs John Cena*

Build up video for this match is great. Remember this feud pretty well from back in the day lol. Wasn't a fan of Cena even back then, but he definitely didn't suck in this feud. And from what I remember, he most certainly didn't suck in the match either.

This is all about respect, and Undertaker is determined to beat it out of Cena, and fuck does he do a great job early on. Some wicked shots from the Dead Man. Referee tries to get Undertaker away from Cena at some point and ends up jumping across the ring to get away from a very pissed off Phenom lol. Always love that spot in Undertaker matches .

Match actually looks like its going to be a total SQUASH, with Undertaker dominating Cena entirely and then landing a HUGE chokeslam, and going for the pin. Looked like it was over, but Undertaker wanted to punish Cena more so he picks him back up, which ends up being a HUGE mistake from the veteran! Cena then takes his time to expose one of the turnbuckles, and it looks like he took TOO long, as Undertaker gets back up and begins to destroy Cena again, but the turnbuckle comes into play and Cena gains control. Undertaker's ribs are the target of Cena's assault, and he does a great job working them over. Undertaker is bleeding internally, and keeps fighting back in desperation. He knows he needs to get back into this match and end it quickly, something he had the chance to do earlier but didn't follow up on.

Undertaker takes one hell of a beating, including a shot to the ribs with a chain and an F-U! He barely kicks out, and Cena gets majorly pissed off, and makes a mistake by mounting 'Taker in the corner, and gets a Last Ride! Match is over.

Great, great stuff. Another great example of Undertaker putting someone over without actually losing. Plus, he does get beat by Cena on Smackdown in a re-match not long after this. But yeah, Undertaker gets the win on PPV while Cena looks better than he ever has. Everyone is a winner here.

*Rating: ***3/4*


*Mr McMahon Vs Zack Gowen*

What do Mr McMahon and Andy have in common? They've both taken pleasure in screwing a cripple! 

Match is what it is. Mr McMahon beating up a one legged guy. One legged guy makes comeback and Vince bumps to the best of his ability. Didn't do much for me. Worst match on the show, and the only actual bad match on the show too. Vince's blade job is pretty much THE only thing that is good lol.

*Rating: 1/4**


*Brock Lesnar Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship*

Classic "Big Show Vs The World" start to this one, which is always a ton of fun. Even against two of the companies top stars at the time, Show looked like he could legit destroy them both and take the title if he wanted to, and that makes the match a whole lot more interesting. Show Vs Angle and Lesnar was a nice way to set up Lesnar and Angle working together to take out the bigger man (and they begin with weapon shots and then hit a double chokeslam!), and then move from there to both of them turning on each other because they both want the title.

Pretty sure Tazz calls Big Show a hooker at some point during this match lol. 

Lesnar hits a RUNNING POWERBOMB ON BIG SHOW. Ok, it was out of the corner, but still, he had the guy on his shoulders in a powerbomb position and RAN WITH HIM. Lesnar was a fucking beast. Big Show is hurt from that move, and then is finally taken out of the match for good with an Angle Slam through a table. Angle Vs Lesnar time! They became friends after the WM match, but this is for the title, and friendship don't mean SHIT.

Oh hey, Big Show does come back into this match lol. He breaks up Angle Vs Lesnar and double chokeslams both of them! Lesnar and Angle are up about 20 seconds later exchanging punches with each other. LOL. Angle hits the Angle Slam on Show, then on Lesnar and picks up the win. Didn't enjoy this as much as I did on last watch tbh, but its still a good triple threat match, and its a great piece of the Angle/Lesnar story which leads into SummerSlam superbly.

*Rating: ***1/2*


Overall, a fantastic PPV. Only ONE bad match on the card. Everything else is at the very least fun. Opener is MOTN, with Undertaker/Cena coming in close.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Spanky is hilarious in that match. God bless that man. Matt Hardy's "MattFact" was also "Matt Hardy hates barfights" :lmao

Funnest 10 minutes of my life, even if half of that time consisted of entrances.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Any thoughts on Vengeance 2002? I've seen the opening tag team tables match and Benoit is absolutely ruling in that one. RVD vs BROCK is awesome and the triple threat main event is the second greatest match of its kind after the obvious WMXX classic.


*6-Man Tag **2/3
Noble/Kidman **3/4
Hardy/Regal *
Jericho/Cena **2/3
RVD/Brock ***
Booker/Show **
Hulk/Edge vs.Un-Americans **
Angle/Rock/UT ***2/3 

Vengeance is pretty solid considering WWE was going to a whole different direction at this pint with Ruthless Agression. Benoit was awesome in that tables match but it was pedestrian outside of that. RVD-Brock was better than their KOTR match but I'm still not crazy about it. I liked the main event but it got to be too much of a finisher fest rather than an actual story and not a fan of the finish but that's just my cup of tea.*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did someone say Backlash 2002 was a pretty good show?

Jesus that double ME was horrendous and bar the opener, Edge/Angle and mayyybe RVD/Eddie the undercard was dull as fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RVD/Eddie is tremendous and Austin/Undertaker is great. Rest of the card BLOOOOWS.

AUSTIN VS UNDERTAKER IS GOOD DAMMIT!!!

FUCK THE HATERS!!!

IT'S GOOD!!!

ARRGHH!!!


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

ATF said:


> Did someone say Backlash 2002 was a pretty good show?
> 
> Jesus that double ME was horrendous and bar the opener, Edge/Angle and mayyybe RVD/Eddie the undercard was dull as fuck.


*Kidman and Tajiri had a decent opener but yeah Backlash pretty much sucked.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Did someone say Backlash 2002 was a pretty good show?
> 
> Jesus that double ME was horrendous and bar the opener, Edge/Angle and mayyybe RVD/Eddie the undercard was dull as fuck.


I got Backlash 2001 confused with Backlash 2002, fuck off 

Eddie vs RVD is a nice little match though, I dig it.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Fun fact about that APA bar fight, Damian Sandow played the Easter Bunny!


Also, I'm not a fan of the new HHH doc, same problems with it that other people have...they skipped over too much and the fellatio was out of control.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Got alittle side track , but Im back on my viewing of veneagnce 03, in the middle of benoit/eddie, I feel like giving this match a ****** no matter what as there is a guy in the front row with a huge sign saying my name :lmao


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Walter Sobchak said:


> Fun fact about that APA bar fight, Damian Sandow played the Easter Bunny!
> 
> 
> Also, I'm not a fan of the new HHH doc, same problems with it that other people have...they skipped over too much and the fellatio was out of control.


Probably Damien Sandow's best ever match then

8*D


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Orton/Foley Backlash 2004- ****1/2, I wanna talk about Foley a bit here. I love how he knew he outright sucked at Wrestlemania 20 and pretty much was on a treadmill nonstop for the next month for that match. I actually think it's leaps and bounds better than his match with Edge, and actually consider it one of my personal top Hardcore matches of all time. I liked how Orton was (to take a line used to describe Punk in the HIAC match with Ryback) two thirds coward and one third courage. Stepping up in all the right spots of the match, but showing some heel moments at the times it mattered. I mean the spots themselves were fantastic, from the opening where Foley chased Orton with the Barbed wire bat, swinging for the fences, to the part where Foley finally nailed Orton, drew Blood, and Orton had, to quote JR, 'A look of pure fear,' the Japanese Barbed Wire board, how can we forget the thumbtacks, and when Foley threw Orton off the stage. The point where EMT's were coming out and JR was saying how it was getting WAY out of hand, sold the moment perfectly. I'm not too crazy over the finish, an RKO onto barbed wire doesn't make much sense, but I'm nitpicking and I know it so I'll drop it. The match itself was much more important for Orton's career than Edge's too, Edge's feud with Foley was pretty much just something to do between John Cena feuds.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Don't know how many people follow NXT but apparently this is happening:



Spoiler: NXT GM



Triple H removes Dusty Rhodes as GM of NXT and made JBL the new GM.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Orton/Foley Backlash 2004- ****1/2, I wanna talk about Foley a bit here. I love how he knew he outright sucked at Wrestlemania 20 and pretty much was on a treadmill nonstop for the next month for that match. I actually think it's leaps and bounds better than his match with Edge, and actually consider it one of my personal top Hardcore matches of all time. I liked how Orton was (to take a line used to describe Punk in the HIAC match with Ryback) two thirds coward and one third courage. Stepping up in all the right spots of the match, but showing some heel moments at the times it mattered. I mean the spots themselves were fantastic, from the opening where Foley chased Orton with the Barbed wire bat, swinging for the fences, to the part where Foley finally nailed Orton, drew Blood, and Orton had, to quote JR, 'A look of pure fear,' the Japanese Barbed Wire board, how can we forget the thumbtacks, and when Foley threw Orton off the stage. The point where EMT's were coming out and JR was saying how it was getting WAY out of hand, sold the moment perfectly. I'm not too crazy over the finish, an RKO onto barbed wire doesn't make much sense, but I'm nitpicking and I know it so I'll drop it. The match itself was much more important for Orton's career than Edge's too, Edge's feud with Foley was pretty much just something to do between John Cena feuds.




In my mind, that IS the greatest Hardcore Rules match of all time, and one of the greatest matches ever period. ***** from me, I only have the Street Fight with Trips and Mindgames with HBK ahead of it as my favorite Foley match ever. Even ahead of OTE with Austin, which in my mind is an overlooked piece of art, one of the best matches in the AE.

That match is what made me a fan of Orton at the time, his character work and selling is just phenomenal. The bump he takes when Foley clocks him in the head and he just crumples in a heap is one of the most realistic sell jobs for being knocked out I've ever seen, looked exactly like something you'd see in a UFC fight. Plus Ortons face when he sits up after landing in the thumbtacks will go down in the pantheon as one of the greatest expressions ever. Foley was just a madman in that match. I can't say enough good things about it. He delivers one of the best elbows I've ever seen when he nails Orton off the stage, the way the camera catches it makes it look like it freaking killed Orton (not better than the one he nailed Sting with during his debut in WCW tho).

Orton and Foley have both called it their best match of their careers. Like I said I think Foley has had 2 ones I rate a bit higher, but it is my favorite Orton match ever, and really helped establish him as an actual threat, and not just a good looking cocky bastard.

It's matches like that that make me lament the current PG rating every once in a while. While I think match quality right now is as good as its ever been outside of the "Ruthless Aggression" years (2002-2005), I do think having a match like that very once in a while could be a real treat. Oh well, not about to start in on that topic.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My Money In The Bank 2011, Extreme Rules 2012, and SummerSlam 2013 DVDs came in :mark: :mark: :mark:

Those three DVDs along with the fact that I have yet to finish GTAV mean it's going to be one HELL of a weekend.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Insurrextion 2001 atm. Card is actually pretty STACKED on paper. Enjoying it so far.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

guess what im watching tonight


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just finished Christian vs. Del Rio (only planning to watch the main events for today), and I still think it's a very good match. Would've easily been MOTN at Night of Champions.

Anyone know why Del Rio pulls his kneepad down before his superkick though? fpalm


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Bad Blood 2003*
_"Putting the BAD in BAD Blood"_


*Dudley Boyz vs. Nowinski and Mack *
The reason this match is happening is because Chris Nowinski of all people, is asking D-Von why is the “white brother asking the black brother to get the table.”
Dudleyz get a pop despite being stale as hell. Mack and Nowinski come out and NO ONE gives a shit. Rodney Mack is undefeated. 

So weird looking back and see pudgy Bubba Ray as opposed to jacked out of his mind Bully Ray. Did I mention Mack is undefeated because J.R. has mentioned it like 500 times. 
I still mark out for the WAZZUP drop. Bubba does the whole ask “D-Von, get the tables” shtick, Teddy Luther King says “C’mon brotha.” Nowinski bashes BRD with the mask and wins a match no one cares about.
*
** Dudley’s break up is teased, but would never come to fruition because it sucked last time. Your basic RAW match which becomes an opener on a brand split PPV.*

******** Triathlon: Burping Contest*

SHIT. This is the PPV with the ******* Triathlon. Dammit. 

Terri struggles to say words, neither Bischoff or Austin can time the pre-recorded burps correctly. Austin wins. Terri Runnels is disgusted but she’s used to being in shitty situations. Moving on.

*Test vs. Scott Steiner for the Managerial Services of Stacy Keibler.*

Test is a misogynist who abuses hot girlfriend Stacy Kiebler, but good guy Freakzilla to the rescue. Stacy was definitely number 2, behind Torrie in terms of sex appeal.

:lmao Steiner’s now infamous axe handle off the apron starts what will assuredly be a hilarious match. Stacy’s reaction is priceless. Test is straight heeling it up, because no one likes an abusive boyfriend. 

Test’s abusiveness costs him, and Steiner grabs some Stacy bootay and this feud would inexplicably STILL continue.

** If you’re going to watch this match for wrestling. Don’t. If you want to be amused…then by all means watch it.* 

*Intercontinental Championship: Christian (c) vs. Booker T *

Christian when the Peep gimmick was fresh. Booker with DAT hometown pop and an awful theme. They had Insurrextion title match that neither Ross nor Lawler cared to mention. Lawler’s Booker T is a felon jokes are still :lmao. Ah, remember when Lawler was funny? Ross burns him with a “statutory rape” joke. 

Christian with some solid selling of Booker’s uninspired offense. It seems with every Booker match I watch, I think less of him as a performer.

Towards the end, Spinaroonie and then Book goes for Scizzors Kick but Christian dipsets. Christian tries to be chickenshit and leave the arena with his title but Jack Doan in the middle of counting him out grabs a mic and informs him that he’ll lose the title if he doesn’t come back in the ring. LOLWUT? CHAMPIONS ADVANTAGE. Then proceeds to start counting from one again. LOGIC. 

Christian comes back in and then just hits Booker with the belt and the crowd is PISSED.

***1/2 Serviceable match, put Christian over as chickenshit heel but match just didn't click at all. Also, Booker’s 2003 continues to suck.* 


******** Triathlon, Event Two:*
Be still my heart, more triathlon. Bischoff is first, and Austin brings out Mae Young….and nope I refuse to elaborate.

:lmao Alert: Mae imitates Stacy’s entrance and a dude in the crowd’s face looks like he ate a bucket load of Lemonheads. 

Bischoff “wins”, fans don’t. Austin stuns Mae and this is probably Austin’s weakest stint in terms of being comedic.

GAIL KIM PROMO. Love that woman, horribly misused by the WWE.

*World Tag Team Championship: La Resistance vs. Masked Kane and Rob Van Dam (c)*

RVD and Kane having issues cause Kane’s emo. La Resistance are French, but not sure what exactly made them Number 1 Contenders.

JR on his “This is ‘Murica, love it or leave it” spiel the whole match which gets tiresome. On a side note, La Resistance could’ve been better if they weren’t just used for our patriotic fodder and could’ve been able to get over on more than just being French.

Crowd chants USA, Dupree wrestled nearly the whole match until Kane and RVD dominate and throw La Res to the outside but, but RVD with some classic miscommunications problems with Kane on the outside.

Anyway, La Res hit their sweet double team on RVD and win the titles. Pretty good finish. 

*** 3/4 Kane and RVD told a good story which lead to Psycho Kane who should’ve won the title in ’03. Yet, action was decent and La Res kinda stood in the background and left champions.*

*Goldberg vs. Chris Jericho*

DAT REAL LIFE BEEF. 

Let me preface by saying, Goldberg's run was so painful to watch in WWE. Pro-Y2J crowd which pissed off ol’ Billy Goldberg. The psychology of "Can Goldberg hit the Spear on Jericho?" makes this match interesting.

Jericho carries the match, you surprised? I loved and still love the barricade spear spot they did which made Goldberg vulnerable. Pro-Y2J crowd in full force, eventually Jericho succumbs to the Spear-Jackhammer. Rinse, Recycle, and Repeat.

After, Goldberg walks over to taunts some Jericho fan in Tigger suit and acts like the douche he is. Ah, this first hour has been high-level fuckery

**** Probably Goldberg’s best WWE match, the psychology of the match was actually pretty decent. Yet, Goldberg showed little enthusiasm because he didn’t want to do this match.*

*Shawn Michaels vs. Ric Flair*

The precursor to their 2008 classic, the showmanship in this match is excellent and great solid, all round action with not Viper Orton interfering all over the place. Michaels gives him a superkick. Awesome table spot which includes Flair yelping for 3 minutes straight, gotta love Naitch.

Towards the end, Michaels does his comeback shtick and tunes up the band. "I'm sorry. While I certainly like you as a friend, I cannot yet say that I love you, but perhaps with time and intimacy, I will grow to love you." Superkick. Orton comeback and blasts HBK with the chair and then the Flair wins and that’s it.

****2/3 Better than their 2008 match in terms of workrate, but devoid of the emotion and storytelling that made the 2008 match great. Match suffers due to lack of time given and a rushed finish, but I mean we just had to get all those ******* Triathlon segments in right? Right?!*

******** Triathlon:*

Ugh, this shit continues. Lawler talks about Mae Young’s pie crust…and that sums up how this PPV has been. Bischoff comes out and pulls Ashlee Simpson lip sync of his own theme and the crowd doesn’t care. Austin catches him…and the crowd STILL doesn’t care. Easy E sings again, horribly and HOLY SHIT these segments took up 30-45 minutes of possible match time. 

:lmao Alert: Jim Ross marks over Jim McIngvale…the Furniture.com dude. 

They do a pig pen match, Austin throws him in the pig pen and finally this shit (no pun intended) is over. 

*World Heavyeight Championship/Hell in a Cell: Injured Triple H (c) vs. Always Injured Kevin Nash 
-with Damaged Mick Foley as Special Guest Referee*


For a Hell In A Cell math which probably only Hunter and Nash wanted to see, this wasn’t that bad. The Cell was much needed because Trips due to his injury couldn’t move much and Nash, couldn’t move at all. 

The problem with their earlier matches was that neither guy could move very well, but they tried to brawl all over the arena anyway. Here, they were confined to the ringside area and had plenty of weapons to help them out. Trips’ reign of terror continues, and Nash left 2 months later. Added bonus was Foley was willing to take most of the hard bumps. At least the feud ended on a high note.

The ending is really the only thing worth watching, Socko makes an appearance, Foley gets messed up toward the end and Trips hit Nash with pedigree and ol’ Sledgehammer and retains. 

**** Trips and Foley’s interactions are the match; because that’s really all you care about. Triple H also was pretty “ruthless” with the weapons. Nothing too pretty, nothing that makes you go “Holy Shit” but passable and compared to everything else on the card…it was good.* 

*55/100

One really good match, two or three decent ones, and a shit load of filler which is why brand split PPV’s tend to suffer. Bad Blood '03 is like your basic RAW episode, only people paid for it which leads to an obvious dissatisfaction. If I had to pay 35 bucks to see Mae Young’s pie crust…I’d be pissed too.*​


----------



## -SAW- (Feb 29, 2004)

Watched the Trips documentary last night. Wasn't able to find the Blu-Ray at Walmart, but I couldn't wait to buy it online, so I settled for the DVD. Kinda regret it, so I'll probably end up buying the Blu-Ray. Either way, it's a great watch. Alot of focus on his early days, at least alot more than I thought they'd go into. Hell, they even mentioned the origin of Terra Ryzing, which I thought was fantastic. The interviews with Batista, DDP, Rocky and especially Taker were awesome to see. I can't even remember the last time I saw Taker out of character on a WWE DVD, probably his "This Is My Yard" DVD back in 2001, IIRC.

Even after reading what I missed out on from the Blu-Ray extras, I did feel they skipped over quite a bit. They go from him returning at MSG in 2002 straight into Evolution. I was _really_ hoping they'd at least go into his program with Booker, him turning on Orton and finally getting a program with Shawn. They even mention him being in line for said program after winning the King of the Ring in 96, but the curtain call obviously put the breaks on that. Either way, I really wish they would have gone into his 2002-2005 WHC reigns.

Nitpicking aside, it's a great watch with great interviews and what look like to be some pretty awesome match choices. Kind of a random choice with the RVD match from RAW in 2003, but still. We got HHH/Rocky Iron Man, HHH/HBK Last Man Standing and No DQ against Angle.

It's far from the best WWE documentary I've ever seen, which has to be either the HBK or Flair doc. But, I always gush over any of the docs WWE puts out 

*Overall: 8.5/10*


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm in a Flair mood today so I'm watching the Flair definitive collection. Flair v Kerry Von Erich right now 2 out of 3 falls. Yeah buddy....love this match. 




Corporate KingOfKings said:


> FINALLY getting a chance to watch the most anticipated WWE home video release in my lifetime.


This one right? 











funnyfaces1 said:


> *Clash of the Champions II: Miami Mayhem*​*NWA United States Championship*
> Brad Armstrong vs. Barry Windham - ****1/4*
> 
> *NWA United States Tag Team Championship*
> ...



Excellent write up. 



PGSucks said:


> My Money In The Bank 2011, Extreme Rules 2012, and SummerSlam 2013 DVDs came in :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> Those three DVDs along with the fact that I have yet to finish GTAV mean it's going to be one HELL of a weekend.


Wow. Probably the 3 best PPVs of the year for each one of those years. Good work. I need to buy Summerslam 2013. Will eventually. I scored Extreme Rules 2012 (used) for $5 a few months ago.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished watching the documentary for Kingdom Come a few hours ago. For what they showed, it was great and quite possibly the best documentary they've done in terms of the footage being used and how they went through it but that brings me to the negatives. Way too much time was spent on Steph/HHH relationship as well as the corporate stuff and they skipped pretty much his entire "Reign of Terror" and even the Evolution chapter was way too short. The HBK feud was never acknowledged (which may not be all _that_ bad) and obviously so was all the stuff regarding backstage politics and him burying people. Instead it was two hours of non-stop dick sucking with everyone non-stop praising to the point you'd think the guy is the perfect saint this world could ask for. And quite frankly, that's highly exaggerated regardless of how good they wanna make him look.

But on the bright side, I liked how they went into detail regarding WM25. Still, many chapters were too short or they plain skipped some parts of his career.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching ER 2012, Jericho/Punk about to start

Things lined up for the weekend

Mania 23
best of KOTR( I think its still on netflix
EC anthology( if it comes in the mail)
older Bret Hart set( if it comes in mail)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Is Haitch's DVD on DM or anything ? kinda what to see it, finishing veneagnce 03 atm


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Bad Blood 03 is your definition of a "meh" PPV. There wasn't anything really BAD on the show (the ******* Triathlon had it's funny moments), but nothing GREAT either. Flair/HBK often gets overlooked because of their WM match 5 years later, but the Bad Blood match is pretty good too. Hell in a Cell is okay. It's nothing special, but you can't really expect too much with Kevin Nash.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah, as a total mark for both of them I dont like hbk/flair I that much, doesn't hold up well. The poster on the other page explain why pretty well, its all work rate, but there is nothing else. Loved the build and promo though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell? funnyfaces1, did you steal my exact template for reviewing shows? :lol

Here's a fun fact, I found the Thy Kingdom Come dvd at FYE today, USED for 15.99. Like, wtf? Someone already bought it and traded it in? And they're selling it for 15.99!? Anyway, still paid $25 for the blu ray. 

I'll be back on here regularly this weekend, for anyone that happens to miss me. Been on a bit of a vacation.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I miss you. Don't ever fucking leave us again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn, the great Jack Evans 187 finally found out my secret :lol

*Clash of the Champions III: Fall Brawl*​*NWA Television Championship*
Brad Armstrong vs. Mike Rotunda - ***3/4*

The Sheepherders vs. Steve Williams & Nikita Koloff - ****1/4*

Dusty Rhodes vs. Kevin Sullivan - *LOLWTF*

Ricky Morton vs. Ivan Koloff - ****

*NWA United States Championship*
Barry Windham vs. Sting - ******​
-Brad Armstrong once again is in the opening match, but this time it's for the TV Title against Father Wyatt. He does some pretty cool babyface flying and jumping around stuff here, but the match was clearly wrestled in a manner where all they cared about was reaching the time limit. The multiple pin attempts by Rotunda in the end was kinda cool. Alright opener.

-Once again, another Sheepherder tag that is good, but could benefit from being shorter. Steve Williams also kinda sucks as a face, but my boy Nikita Koloff does a great job as a FIP and as the hot tag. He really was the only guy that the crowd cared about, but he was very good. Good match overall since Nikita was in for the majority of it.

-LMFAO at this next match. All you need to know about this is that Dusty Rhodes won the match by pinning Gary Hart after a bunch of people interfere for no reason.

-Russian Chain match here, which is essentially a strap match. Meh, it was alright. Ricky Morton was pretty good, but nobody really cared about this. Similar to Sheamus/Henry from ER this year.

-Finally we get to the main event of this very disappointing show. Thankfully, Sting goes 3 for 3 in COTC main events with another really good match. There's something special about the guy whenever he does a dropkick or a somersault or any of his other moves. Sting just adds that extra bit of excitement with everything he does. I guess that's what charisma and the "it" factor is. Once again, Sting makes no-selling look badass. And on the other side, we get Barry freakin' Windham! Windham is masterful at reversing moves at the right moment and changing the momentum to his favor. He also does a one handed scoop slam to Sting on the concrete :mark:. Lots of cool subtle stories going on as well such as Sting employing moves that Dusty Rhodes taught him, both guys trying to avoid each other's submission finisher, and Sting trying to get revenge on the Horsemen. Watch this if you're a fan of either guy (which you are).

Not gonna lie, this show kinda sucked outside of the main event. Very wrestling-heavy, but everything felt so dry and emotionless. The crowd was pretty horrible throughout the night. I'd recommend this to be skipped. Hopefully COTC 4 will be better; it does have two really good tag matches on there on paper.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

It's a good template. 

LOVE that Sting/Windham match. Can Sting just come to WWE or retire so the E can release a Sting compilation? Yeah I won't work that day!

Just watched the Flair/HHH Taboo Tuesday cage match. Good God. I forgot how great that was.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Wow. Probably the 3 best PPVs of the year for each one of those years. Good work. I need to buy Summerslam 2013. Will eventually. I scored Extreme Rules 2012 (used) for $5 a few months ago.


Thanks! I had to stop watching SummerSlam 2013 because my university gym closes early, but I'll get onto that 

I'll end up downloading the HHH doc soon, but other than that, I'm not so sure that there's anything I'll be adding to my collection any time soon... :ziggler3


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'll def be getting best of Raw and Smackdown 2013. Probably the best PPV matches as well especially if it has Taker/Punk and ADR/Dolph from Payback.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Triple H's character was originally going to be Reginald Dupont Helmsley :lmao

Mark Jindrak was in a couple early Evolution vignettes. That looked awkward.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Is Haitch's DVD on DM or anything ? kinda what to see it,


Ask and you shall receive, good sir.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> RVD/Eddie is tremendous and Austin/Undertaker is great. Rest of the card BLOOOOWS.
> 
> AUSTIN VS UNDERTAKER IS GOOD DAMMIT!!!
> 
> ...


ok seriously what the fuck, dude.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

I watched Haitch's doc last night. T'was alright. I enjoyed the first hour a lot. They went into a lot of detail without spending to much time on the minutia. It was interesting to get a little look into Hunter's early life (something I wasn't familiar with). Plus all the usual goodness that comes with talking heads.

Then the 2nd hour happened. What a way to handled the two most interesting runs of Hunter's career. Not so much as a mention of the Foley feud in 2000, or anything from the best year of his career outside of The Rock feud. Evolution is skimmed over just as quickly. They spend way too much time on Hunter becoming the COO, and marrying Steph... all that crap. It really drags down the documentary.

I'm sure there are some nice extras, but as the doc goes, it's a missed opportunity. They left out a lot of what made Triple H's career legendary. 

And that final piece of music... Jesus, I thought they were trying to paint him as Mother Theresa in the trailer. Just try and get through those last two minutes without crying laughing. Dah dah dah dee dee... "He's Michael Jordan"... duh duh duh dah dah... "He's a Hall of Fame person" dah dah dah dee. :lmao :lmao :lmao

Side note: Does anyone want to go out on a limb and guess how many times Michael Hayes has gone on record to admit that he was 100% against something that ultimately became hugely successful? It's like his designated role for every documentary. "I thought this was shit. It was never going to work. I fought against it. Low and behold, I was wrong and it made us millions of dollars".


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> ok seriously what the fuck, dude.


Oh cmon, everyone can have a guilty pleasure no matter how bad they can be. I mean you enjoy Paramore and Lady Gaga for some horrible reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Like Drew McIntyre more and get back to me.

but I deserve to be bitter b/c the list of matches I hate more than that Undertaker match isn't much. It's mostly only b/c Austin was the worst asshole ever in it tanking like he did. That really burns me up. He looks like an utter twat throughout and I hate him only on that night. Taker's performance was poor, but he felt like he KIND of tried in it. It wasn't his best string of matches around that area circa 2002, tbf. _(minus working well with the older vets in Flair & Hogan)_ He had those stinkers vs Triple H x2 also. Didn't care for the Rock match from NWO either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Other place has the answers for ya Cody.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Check.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still disagree you will, but maybe you'll at least see where I'm coming from .

If not, fuck you .

At least Eddie/RVD rules the planet when it comes to Backlash 02. Quite easily a top 5 RVD match. Hell probably top 3, along with the Raw ladder match with Eddie and SS 02 with Benoit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can understand the Undertaker appraisal. As if that takes effort. We're in sync there, despite myself not thinking he was too grand in it. He sure as hell was the better half of the match.

RVD vs Guerrero is top notch, but my favorite from that night is probably still Tajiri vs Kidman. Holy crap is that one a beaut. I now want to watch back to back and see which I prefer. 

Angle vs Edge isn't special, but I don't dislike it. Not as good as I remember. Typical Angle spot heavy type match. The Judgment Day & Cage matches vs Edge are much, much better. Oh, Brock vs Jeff is good. BROCK. Everything else, blah. Hall vs Bradshaw lolz. I wanted to like it, but nope. I do not remember the tag team championship match. There is probably a reason for that...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And yet Backlash 2002 was still better than 2003.

I mean, the Smackdown stuff (Lesnar/Cena, Rey/Show and WGTT/Guerreros) minus Rikishi/O'Haire was (Y) but the rest was either bleh or just horribly underwhelming.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

So, I just watched the Dreamer vs. Raven face-off shoot(fantastic by the way) and I got to thinking about something.

It's well known that Mick Foley likes to help out younger talents and that he did wonders for Randy Orton's career. I can't help but wonder if he gave Orton the idea to do the head locks to piss off the crowd since Mick became known for that during his anti-hardcore phase.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Continuing my crusade to watch some of the worst pay-per-views in modern history because I enjoy high-level fuckery. It's like Mystery Science Theatre only with Wrestling.

Next on the slate: Great American Bash '04 (which besides a JBL-Guerrero match) should be "fun" to review.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> I can understand the Undertaker appraisal. As if that takes effort. We're in sync there, despite myself not thinking he was too grand in it. He sure as hell was the better half of the match.
> 
> RVD vs Guerrero is top notch, but my favorite from that night is probably still Tajiri vs Kidman. Holy crap is that one a beaut. I now want to watch back to back and see which I prefer.
> 
> Angle vs Edge isn't special, but I don't dislike it. Not as good as I remember. Typical Angle spot heavy type match. The Judgment Day & Cage matches vs Edge are much, much better. Oh, Brock vs Jeff is good. BROCK. Everything else, blah. Hall vs Bradshaw lolz. I wanted to like it, but nope. I do not remember the tag team championship match. There is probably a reason for that...



Thoughts on Tajiri vs Xpac from Summerslam 2001?


My favorite RVD match in WWE is his Ladder Match with Eddie from Raw, but yes Backlash was some good shit. 

I think my favorite RVD match period might still be his match with Jerry Lynn at Hardcore Heaven from ECW.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> Ask and you shall receive, good sir.


Why thank you my good sir 

I actually went on there like 5 minutes after my post yesterday, gonna watch it today. It even has the blu ray extras on it. I telling you dude I'm never buying a DVD again unless, it goes down.


1 more match to go for veneagnce 03 than its Cal scale time


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Insurrextion 2001*

Vince is going nuts at the start of the PPV, screaming at Regal for changing the match card for tonight. Turns out LINDA did it. IT WAS ME VINCE, IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!

The card actually looks... pretty fecking good. ON PAPER. Kinda hope it does well. 


*Grand Master Sexay Vs Eddie Guerrero*

Well, not everything can look good on paper .

Then again... GMS has the whole PANTS thing going for him, and Eddie is EDDIE. Not sure how good Eddie will be here though. One of his last matches in WWE before going to rehab and then getting released .

Hmmm... Eddie seems to be on top of things. :lmao at him dancing like a fucking twat then kicking GMS a couple of times, only for GMS to roll him up for a near fall.

Sitout Powerbomb by GMS who falls over while doing it lol. And to think, Guerrero was the one off his tits at this time. Then again GMS got released shortly after this too now I think about it...

Eddie wins via CHEATING. Short opener, nothing special.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Perry Staturn, Dean Malenko & Terri Vs Crash, Hardcore & Molly Holly*

"TRIPLE H DON'T BLOW YOUR EVER ENDING NOSE IN MY DIRECTION" Ahhh spotting awesome signs is fun .

Cole perves on Terri in a short skirt waaay too much. What a weirdo. Who does that?

Molly is pretty FAP FAP .

Oh this is now just a 2 on 2 tag because Terri isn't in wrestling attire.

Cole claims Saturn has changed by wearing those stupid hats because he recently started dating Terri. They've been involved on screen for nearly a full YEAR at this point.

Huh, Molly randomly decides to stand on the apron after standing just at ringside for a few minutes. Even though she's no longer in this match. Does anyone know what's happening? I don't. I have a YORKIE cookie to eat .

Damn, Saturn just CLUBS THE SHIT out of Hardcore's head. MULTIPLE times. Saturn has a Hogan moustache. Colour and all.

:lmao Hardcore tries to do his Alabama Slam to Saturn, but Saturn thinks its a back body drop. HE GONE FUCKED UP.

Molly keeps moving places on the apron. Even though she shouldn't be there. WHAT IS HAPPENING?

Terri breaks up a count and the referee doesn't call for the bell even though it's blatant interference because SHE IS NO LONGER PART OF THE MATCH. WHAT IS FUCKING HAPPENING.

Saturn gets a northern lights suplex (I think) on Crash while everyone is busy fapping to the women and gets the win.

Aside from things NOT MAKING SENSE here and there, this is a solid tag match.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Regal is polishing his Queen's Cup backstage. No, that's not a euphemism.


*The Big Show Vs Bradshaw*

Linda cancelled Big Show Vs Test because Test is injured after getting destroyed by Big Show a couple of weeks ago. Show comes out anyway and calls Test out. Test shows up. HE'S A HERO! Show destroys him again and referees come out to save him. So Big Show claims nobody can stop him. OMG I REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENS :mark:.

BRADSHAW OF THE APA!!! (and now I can write the actual match down because I just remembered who Show faces!!!)

Big Bad Bradshaw comes down and tries to cave the giant's face in :mark:.

Really fun FIGHT with Bradshaw having to be extra murderous in order to combat the GIANT.

Oh man, Show hits Bradshaw RIGHT IN THE FACE with a right hand. Not a WMD type punch, but a nasty, knarly, realistic kind of punch. Then he takes the referee out and goes after Test again. LOL Test sucks.

BOOT TO THE FACE WITH A CHAIR IN BETWEEN! CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL! BRADSHAW GETS THE WIN!

:mark: FUN FUN FUN. This should have been a hardcore match. I *think* Show and Test have one at JD, right? And of course Backlash has the LMS match with Show and Shane. Show has a ton of really good hardcore type matches under his belt tbh. LMS, Street Fights, Hardcore matches, No Holds Barred etc. Lots and lots of pure fun.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Pac & Justin Credible - Elimination Tag Team Match*

Wish Albert was in this match instead of Credible. Did you read the "report" recently that claims Albert is getting paid $400,000 a year by WWE? They offered him that to leave Japan and his $100,000 a year contract there. No wonder he doesn't give a fuck about being Tensai and dancing with a dinosaur!

LOL at X-Pac randomly falling down and pointing at his knee to distract the referee while Albert and Credible crotch Matt on the ring post. Commentary for it is great too:

Heyman: "I think that's gonna ruin Lita's night"

Cole: "Pretty much"

:lmao

No surprise to anyone that X-Factor are the first team eliminated. They ain't happy so Albert and Credible attack Matt on the outside while E&C eliminate Jeff!

Down to E&C and those DAMN Dudleys!

:lmao at Edge coming into the ring, pointing at Bubba so the referee runs over to him allowing Edge to help Christian double team D-Von. How fucking DUMB is Tim White lol? 

Your standard E&C/Dudleys tag match from this point on, but as I've said before, a standard match between these teams (and the Hardy Boys) is better than your average tag match. Tim White keeps doing dumb things, E&C keep cheating, then Bubba gets a hot tag and steamrolls over everyone.

Is there some unwritten rule in wrestling where anyone taking a back body drop from Bubba has to fucking LEAP in the air as high as possible? Because damn, everyone goes out of their way to kill themselves lol.

RHYNO! GORE! GORE! GORE! Bubba eats a GORE and E&C gets the win. Spike comes out to prevent Bubba going through a table, and Rhyno ends up taking a 3-D through it!

Good match.

*Rating: ***14*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Clips of a make a wish foundation thingy that WWE attended the night before. Stephanie slaps Michael Cole. Wonder if that was someone's wish :lmao.

Eamonn Holmes Chris Tarrant are in the crowd. THE STARS ARE OUT TONIGHT :lmao.

Steven Richards and Ivory come out to tell us that we are terrible people for having Page 3 nudity. Oh and he's managed to get the ladies battle royal cancelled. They all come out and strip Ivory and Richards. Then beat him up. LOL.


*Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - 2 out of 3 Falls Match*

Nothing like having a 2 out of 3 falls match on the PPV before they have a 2 out of 3 falls match on PPV! 

This one doesn't have a ladder match though. 

2 years in a row for these guys having a match at Insurrextion. Enjoyed last year's. Wonder if this will be any good.

Benoit stole Angle's Gold Medals last week. He's hiding them in his crotch. CROTCH MEDALS.

:lmao at Heyman taking the piss out of Australia during this match. Why? Because he's PAUL FUCKING HEYMAN.

3 AMIGOS BY BENOIT!!! Sort of. First 2 are snap suplexes and he looks terrible at spinning up off the mat, then the third he drops Angle down across the ropes. But still. Did Benoit invent the 3 AMIGOS?

FLYING HEADBUTT! Benoit gets the first fall win. This has been good so far. They seemed to have their better stuff in 01 imo. They didn't have that robotic style down yet and were a little more stiff and gritty, or at least as much as Angle could be.

Second fall gets a little dull as Angle attempts to control things, but Benoit is constantly fighting back after a boring sleeper hold nearly puts me to sleep thankfully. Some nice exchanges with Benoit getting the upperhand constantly and getting the win in the second fall, beating Angle 2 straight falls! They claim it's because Angle is too busy thinking about his Gold Medals. His Gold Medals are in Benoit's crotch. So is Angle thinking about Benoit penis? 

This was good. Not great, but good. 

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Chris Jericho Vs William Regal - Queen's Cup Match*

Gotta feel for Teddy Long in this one. A singles match? Really? Why couldn't HE be the referee for the 4 team elimination match? Poor guy.

Gotta feel for anyone watching this match. It's slooooow in a bad way, and extremely dull. Highlight was Regal doing that awesome suplex. Normally he does a half nelson suplex and turns them completely over, but here he did it as a German Suplex. Either way it makes me :mark:. Unfortunately that's all that made me :mark: in this one.

Jericho wins the cup.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin & Triple H - WWF Championship Handicap Match*

Undertaker has to pin Austin to win the WWF title, but he can still just pin HHH for the win.

Austin and HHH think they've got this in the bag because it's 2 on 1. So Undertaker brings in a steel chair and the 2 Man Power Trip are shitting themselves!

LOL at HHH. Undertaker books him in the face to knock him out of the ring, but he fucks up and just slides down to the mat instead. Undertaker has to turn back and punch him in the face to knock him over the ropes. HE'S THE MICHAEL JORDAN OF THE WWE HONEST!!! :lmao

"ASTIN SOLD OUT" sign in the crowd. Not only is it hilarious because they couldn't spell Austin right, but they are also holding it upside down :lmao. Fucking southerners 8*D.

What the fuck was that? What? This:










:lmao a similar situation happens with Austin about 2 minutes later :lmao.

About 10 minutes into the match and Earl decides that HHH and Austin need to tag in and out. Ok...

CHAIR SHOT~! Undertaker is now in trouble with the 2 Man Power Trip in control.

Nothing like a sleeper hold by HHH to get the fans into the match... *yawns*

Worst. Chokeslam through a table. Ever. My god, does anyone give a FUCK in this match? I've put more effort into going to A4E than this. Holy jebus. I'm watching an Undertaker match and I'm NOT CARING.

Vince McMahon shows up, decks HHH with a chair by accident, takes a better chokeslam than HHH did through the table earlier. HHH takes a good chokeslam finally, and Undertaker gets the win. But doesn't win the title. Because he needed to pin Austin for that. I guess he figured with the numbers game and the fact he was bleeding and shit, he just needed to get the win over whoever he could. Still seemed dumb.

This PPV was looking good. Fun and shit. Then got dull towards the end. Does shit on the CAL SCALE mainly because the good matches weren't good enough on the old STARS~!

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 6.5*​


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Thoughts on Tajiri vs Xpac from Summerslam 2001?


 **** Good action but it's a bit on the short side. Better than his Invasion match with Kidman. X-Pac gets a lot of shit, but he did put on good matches when he wanted to*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

rjsbx1 said:


> **** Good action but it's a bit on the short side. Better than his Invasion match with Kidman. X-Pac gets a lot of shit, but he did put on good matches when he wanted to*




I just watched it, very fast paced and exciting, but a tad on the spotty side. Good lord does the crowd hate some Xpac at this point. It sounds as if they are pumping canned boo's in. Which come to think of it maybe they are. At any rate, it was FUN while it lasted, Tajiri was awesome.

P.s., that vid in your sig man. :lmao. I laughed so damn hard, that is some priceless shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I always loved the Tajiri/X-Pac SS match. 3rd best match of the night for me behind Austin/Angle and Jericho/Rhyno. I'll be getting to that event soon so I shall see if it holds up :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Vengeance 2003 PPV*

*Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit US title *
Good match, just I didn't know what they were trying to do, mat-wrestling than power moves, than mat-wrestling again. I forgot the story behind the match, so if it is along the lines of the match, I apologize. Nice crisp wrestling, :lol at the ending with eddie and choida. Have to suspend you belief a bit with the ref, as there is no way a ref is that weak :lol,good match.
**** 1/2-3/4*

*Jamie Noble vs. Billy Gunn -*
Noble vs. Dolph Ziggler ? nah its just ASSman, stupid match, you can just see Noble's talent being wasted, :lol at the storyline and Torrie offering herself just like that. BTW Torrie BAW GAWD Wilson WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ! good lord :flair, You gives can have Lita all you want, not hot to me, but Torrie was just some kinda fine :flair ( isn't flair just the most quotable person in the world
***

*Bar Room Brawl-*
Hilarious, jobbers, Matt hardy and APA just destroying each other, :lmao at the Asian guy just falling down and sitting at the bar the entire time. When did JBL turn into "JBL", couldn't be that far later, forgot APA lasted that long
*****

*Tag Team Match -*
Gonna go out on a limb and say MOTN, just really fun. Love Rey, love Kidman and like WGTT, put them together and good thing happen, I like how the match builds and builds 
**** 3/4*

*Steph. M vs. Sable N/A-*
Dont watch diva matches, however Steph was in her peak FAP FAP form in 2003, gooood lord

*
Vince McMahon vs. Zack Gowen -*
ok match, just dies after 5 mins and I fast forward til the end, Geez Vince was ripped but then, I mean holy shit, he is bigger than some of the wrestlers. 
***


*Undertaker vs. John Cena -*
Ok this may be unpopular but I don't care, biggest disappointment of the day for me by far. Fan of both so i was looking for to this match the most outside of eddie/benoit. Just a weak weak brawl, just meh. Cena was so bad in the begin as a worker, like the only match I like of his before 05 is like one angle match and a sd Rey match, thats about it, really was green. Another unpopular opinion maybe ? I hated BIKER/big evil taker, your the Deadman, always will be.
*N/A, DUD*

*wwe title match -*
Fun match, lukewarm on triple threats as most are wrestler A B C start in the ring and C gets knocked out of it, and A and B start wrestling until C comes back and B gets knocked out of the ring and its a cycle, but this was nice, nice to see Big Show so nimbly and move able although his wrestles like that nowadays on purpose as its his character. Nice action in ring but all three, just a solid match
**** 1/2*


*Cal Scale : 12* ( gave Eddie/Benoit the benefit as ***3/4)​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Cena a DUD?

Incoming rage 8*D


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol the HHH doc skips damn near all of 2002 - 2005 for a 25 minute HHH and Steph love-fest

Disappointing doc. its was going good until it hit 1999. Then it became dull.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> *Vengeance 2003 PPV*
> 
> *Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit US title *
> Good match, just I didn't know what they were trying to do, mat-wrestling than power moves, than mat-wrestling again. I forgot the story behind the match, so if it is along the lines of the match, I apologize. Nice crisp wrestling, :lol at the ending with eddie and choida. Have to suspend you belief a bit with the ref, as there is no way a ref is that weak :lol,good match.
> ...



I have Eddie/Benoit at ****1/2, one of my favorite matches from 2003. Eddies control segment was stellar as always, and this match really started his turn as a baby face with the lying cheating and stealing. One of the most important matches of my favorite wrestlers career, so I'm gonna be a bit biased no question....

Rating Cena-Taker a dud? That's a real stretch, I just don't see it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont care :lol, I prefer their 6/04 sd match so much, this ven 03 match was soo meh, jsut a weak brawl on hte outside and nothing to special once they go into the ring either. Cena was really bad back then, fucking Kurt Angle carried him in matches, let that sink in. 


What is the general consensus on that match here ?


Thy Kingdom Come time ! I swear if hbk and flair kiss his ass I'm turning it off, I get it your good friends dont kiss his ass


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, I wouldn't call that match a dud in the slightest. Above average, too, if I recall right. The thing about Cena is that he could, logically, put together matches very early into his career but without the flare/entertainment he would later learn. That's quite a feat considering how new he was to wrestling at this point (barely scraping two and a bit years). Dude's never really been _bad_ just meddling (if that's the right term).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You asked about Bradshaw becoming JBL, didn't happen until after WM 20. Farooq got fired and Bradshaw didn't leave with him, so he essentially turned heel from that, then randomly showed up a week or so later in a suit and I *think* he powerbombed Rey and he was JBL from that moment on.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Triple H documentary doesn't sound great then from the reviews I've read in here. I wanted to hear a good amount about his Evolution years, but I hear they skipped over that part of his career real quick - and spent too much time talking about his relationship with Stephanie that no really cares about.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ ok thanks, forgot how long APA lasted after AE, Yea I'm never one that harps on Cena being "bad in-ring", just the first couple of years didn't do anything for me or a least 03 didnt.


Its so weird seeing him Heel looking back now, he has gotten much bigger muscle wise, and he aged quite a bit. Not sure how I feel about the whole "thugoanmatic Cena" days. I really never didnt like, I know that was the thing bad then with eniemin etc. but is was so cheesy even back then for me, maybe that was the point


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2001 PPV CAL SCALE so far:

WrestleMania X7 - 23
Royal Rumble - 20
Invasion - 11
Insurrextion - 6.5

Total - 60.5

Now need to decide what's next. Got all of them to choose from except for KOTR (downloading atm) and No Mercy (wanted the full DVD version but can't get that atm so I'll have to settle for a dvd rip just so I can watch it and get the DVD version later). Probably gonna leave NWO until last, or near last because I really, really don't wanna sit through Austin/HHH again just yet . It seems fresh in my mind still despite having not seen it probably for a good few years (since the top 100 WWF/E Poll).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Personally I'm a fan of the Doctor of Thuganomics character Cena had. Not only because it was unique and hadn't been done before, but because Cena really committed himself to it. Even if you thought he was corny and stupid (he was a heel, that's the point) HE never acted like he was a joke or cornball. When he delivered his promos or his raps, he was dead serious about it which is something that really comes through. It's why the Undertaker has been so successful all these years. If he had acted like his character was just a gimmick, people would care. But no, Mark Callaway IS the Deadman once he steps through that curtain. It allows fans to suspend disbelief. Same thing with Bray Wyatt. He's had 1 match that absolutely sucked, wrestling wise (it WAS a spectacle tho) but he still has everyone's attention whenever he's out there because of his commitment to his gimmick.

And Cena was never as bad as people make him out to be in the ring. He was raw, yes, very unorthodox, yes, but he was still good and as someone else said had a good idea right from the get go on how to structure a match. Check his match with Lesnar in 03', that is a solid piece of work.

As Jericho said in his book, Cena was VERY unorthodox, but so was a Texas rattle snake named Steve Austin who went on to become one of WWE's greater workers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, not all of Wyatt's in-ring work is underwhelming. His match vs Jericho on NXT was pretty damn good and he more than held his own.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Pretty good match. One of Fandango's best matches so far.
Disclaimer: It's out of synch and I can't find another good full-match video of this.


----------



## RKO_THUG (Feb 20, 2011)

Duke Silver said:


> I watched Haitch's doc last night. T'was alright. I enjoyed the first hour a lot. They went into a lot of detail without spending to much time on the minutia. It was interesting to get a little look into Hunter's early life (something I wasn't familiar with). Plus all the usual goodness that comes with talking heads.
> 
> Then the 2nd hour happened. What a way to handled the two most interesting runs of Hunter's career. Not so much as a mention of the Foley feud in 2000, or anything from the best year of his career outside of The Rock feud. Evolution is skimmed over just as quickly. They spend way too much time on Hunter becoming the COO, and marrying Steph... all that crap. It really drags down the documentary.
> 
> ...


The Documentary is great. Maybe they didn't mention the foley fued in 2000 because they had like a 10 to 15 min segment on how HHH gave thanks to Mick for putting him over and Foley saying the same for him. Remember when they were talking about how foley was clawing both HHH and Chyna "i believe" and Foley said "this is great"!? This isn't the Mick Foley documentary.

Why do they need to spend that much time on Evolution anyways? It's clearly simple that DX is more important to cover than Evolution that maybe lasted like only about a year and a half. And what else detail do you need to know? HHH wanted to help flair he decided to form a group and help young talent. Batista and Orton was chosen, Orton was a dick and months down the line both guys became huge stars. Its that simple. 

They spent like the last 15 mins of him being CEO and how hes handling it. They do that on every documentary documenting how and what someone is doing now. 

And of course the HHH/Steph segment would take up a bunch of time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched the HHH DVD

Pretty good, I'm a big doc guy, so I enjoyed it. His journey and story seems so simple, and like it just came to him. Only problems is it spend a little to much time on the whole Steph/HHH relationship. We get it but I see why they went into alot to try and prove he earned his spot, and didn't sleep his way up. I would have loved alot more about the evolution days, as i was a huge fan, and just a little on the Brock feud.

Nice DVD, I didnt think Taker was so chummy with HHH, I'd be cool if they shed some light on the whole "buring" persona


Edit: What cartoon character does his father look like ? :lmao, I was literally thinking about it the entire DVD, and the final music is just marvelous haha


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched Y2J/RVD, raised to ***1/2. It started pretty sloppy and disconnected but once they got going they really were trying to put on a true show there. No real flow tbh but character work was good as it did have two very strong "babyface veterans proving they still can go" performances. I liked it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Elimination Chamber set came!!!

its on now, about 1/3 of the way through the SVS 2002 match, full review by tommorow


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> The Elimination Chamber set came!!!
> 
> its on now, about 1/3 of the way through the SVS 2002 match, full review by tommorow


2002 is awesome, 2005 is the best EC ever, and the 2008-2009 Raw ones from NWO are absolutely stellar. Good set, I got it for $4.99 from Best Buy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HIAC and EC sets are both awesomely fun and worth the money. Do I even own the EC set? Think I might just have a copy of it that I bought from Platt way back when. I should change that. Should be able to pick up a used copy at the very least for cheap as chips. Well, cheap anyway. Chips round my way are getting expensive. That's what happens when a Chinese couple take over the local chippy. Tastes like shit and costs a fortune too. Apparently their chinese food is nice though. Never had it. Thank christ we have 2 more chippies in the village (THREE chippies in a small village LOL), but they are like at the other end. This one is right behind my house. Never go there though. Always go to the other ones. But not often. What was I talking about? Oh yeah, EC set. I should check first to make sure I don't own it original. Watching another 2001 PPV. GOAT gif will be part of it.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Great American Bash 2004*
"Cement, Hot Tubs and SHIT.

Torrie’s in the ring in a skimpy Uncle Sam uniform and she welcomes us to the GAB. 10/10 already. Why even watch the rest! :cheer

*Elimination Fatal Four Way Match for the US Title: John Cena © vs. Booker T vs. RVD vs. Rene Dupree*

Before the match, Cena raps that Angle masturbates, RVD likes marijuana, Booker used to be GI Bro and Rene Dupree wants to be Cena. THAT’S NOT PG JOHN. Dupree comes out with the a poodle, :lmao. Taz and Cole are xenophobic and don’t want Dupree to win.

Booker‘s chilling on the outside most the match and basic A and B fight —C and D chill. Booker gets thrown into the ring by RVD and gets beat down by Cena. 

Dupree does his French Tickler dance which compels Taz to sing “I’m a French Tickler, I’m French Tickle Guy, I tickle French Guys” :lmao :lmao what an idiot. Dupree takes three finishers but Cena rolls up RVD and eliminates him instead….what? 

Heels beat down Cena for a bit until Dupree tries to double cross him, Cena eventually gets on fire and hits the F-U, Booker Scizzor Kicks Cena but covers Dupree first and eliminates him… WHY NOT PIN THE CHAMPION, BOOK?!

Cena and Booker are last, and Booker stopped two Cena comebacks so if this was WWE ’13 that’d probably be an XBOX achievement. Booker misses the Scissors Kick and Cena pins Booker after the F-U to retain the title.

***2/3 – The booking of this match sucked, decent yet repetitive action. It should’ve been a straight Fatal-Four-Way match which makes it harder on Cena but this a brand split PPV so they have time to fill.*

Cena is backstage from his match and Charlie Haas congratulates him and Cena waves him off like he ain’t shit :lmao 

The Future Miss Charlie Haas congratulates him and Cena HITS ON her in front of Haas, cause Haas is a bitch. Angle rolls up in his wheelchair and berates him for basically being a bitch. 

:lmao :lmao. Angle books him agains “I had peas b’fo” Luther Reigns. JOY JOY JOY.


Sable’s in a hot tub being a slut and taking about something but I'm not paying attention because of tits.

*Charlie Haas w/ Miss Jackie vs. Luther Reigns w/ Wheelchair Bound Kurt Angle*

Haas comes out and NO ONE gives a shit and Luther Reigns comes out and the negative fucks are given.

Power vs speed…but Luther Reigns is SLOW. He punches slow, moves slow and works like he’s in slow-mo. Luther is supposed to be dominating and impressive but he’s boring and makes too many errors.

Wheelchair Angle keeps yelling at Charlie Haas :lmao. Thank God Angle’s here to entertain. CROWD DOESN’T GIVE A FUCK. Neither do I, Reigns wins using Cross Rhodes…er…I mean Roll of the Dice.

** The most interesting part of this match are the two on the outside. Haas could only do so much and Haas has real talent. Luther Reigns sucks and this match was boring. Exhibit A why brand split PPV’s weren’t such a good idea.*

PS: The back of Angle’s wheel chair is the French flag colors. :lmao


*Cruiserweight Championship: Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Chavo Guerrero*

Best of 1000 series between these two. “OOOH CHAVO” which like the lower card version of “OHHH SHAWN” Chavo is No. 1 Contender because he won a battle royal—remember when they had Number 1 Contender’s Matches. Crowd loves Rey, and I love Chavo-Rey matches so this should be good.

Reversals, counters and fluid transitions :mark, ah, they have good chemistry together. “A shot to the jaw…or perhaps the shoulder.” :lmao for fucks sake, Cole.

Solid psychology with Chavito Heat working on Mysterio’s knee (when Rey-Rey had knees). Chavo’s got the Boston crab, and pulls Rey’s mask and Tazz informs us that it’s illegal because it’s on Mysterio’s face. Thanks, Tazz.

Chavo keeps targeting the “bad knee” and forgets to sell the ‘hurt bicep’ until he runs into the steel post. Mysterio then does a seated senton on Chavo to the outside and 10 guys in the crowd are chanting “Holy Shit” :lmao 

They do an awesome double takeout move on the top rope and the crowd is kind of awake at this point. I love athletic, knee-having Rey Mysterio. Dude was a straight up innovator. 

GORY BOMB!!!!! ONE…TWO…nope. 619! Chavo with an awesome West Coast Pop reversal and Rey DAT RESILIENCY reaches the ropes. Crowd’s awake now, after Luther Reigns killed them. Gory Bomb again but Rey’s like “Nah, B” and rolls Chavo up for the victory. 

***** -This was a very competitive and good CW match. Better than the usual high-flying spotfest, there was rhyme and reason for each move and awesome psychology (except they ignored Chavo having a hurt bicep). Standard Rey-Chavo match.*

:lmao :lmao, they segue into another hot tub segment with Torrie (fap fap fap), Mr. Ex-Torrie Wilson, Funaki and Spike Dudley. They are arguing over something...probably about not being on the card or how Kidman got to marry Torrie. Torrie stands up and they stop arguing and Billy Kidman was hitting that. Funaki in broken English says “God Bless America”. :lmao.

*Kenzo Suzuki w/ Hiroko vs. Billy Gunn*

Suzuki is a Japanese guy who wants revenge for Japan because of what America did to it in World War II. Kenzo actually had a kickass entrance but NO one cares. :lmao Tazz can’t pronounce Kenzo or Hiroko to save his fucking life. ASS-MAN! who got a decent pop. Damn, BG doesn’t look very happy to be here! This rivalry is…3 days old apparently. 

Crowd chants USA, Hiroko doesn’t like it…Tazz calls Hiroko pale even though it’s clearly Geisha make up. :lmao

CHINLOCK. Action. CHINLOCK. More action. CHINLOCK. Crowd is hating this match. 

“Suzuki sometimes looks like he’s out of control and when he hits the move he’s in control.” No, Cole. That shining wizard he did looked awful. 

Gunn with DAT half-ASSED (pun-intended) effort goes to the corner…Nick Patrick turns his head for no reason… Kenzo with an awful looking low blow. :lmao Kenzo does an uglier looking reverse Backbreaker and that’s the finish.

*½ * - Remember when I said the other match was exhibit A? This might have just trumped it. I mean this is TERRIBLE. Kenzo sucks and Billy Gunn is going through the motions. Don’t blame him because Kenzo sucks. No wonder, he got paired in a tag team and became Cena’s bitch.*

Heyman’s getting really homoerotic because he has Paul bearer is tied up backstage. GOAT managers in a shitty storyline. Heyman’s such a creep :lmao. I forgot to mention: there’s a huge cement truck next to the entrance of the arena, just to further the idiocy of the event.

*Sable vs. Torrie*

“What is she wearing?!” – Cole on Sable’s entrance. :lmao :lmao. She looks like a fucking Darkstalkers character.

This match is 3 days old as well…Sable’s jealous because Torrie is hotter. Miss Brock Lesnar vs. Miss Alex Rodriguez

Michael Cole and Tazz comment that we may have had wrestlers like Arn Anderson and Dean Malenko compete at previous Great American Bash events. But that’s nothing compared to this. :lmao :lmao

Torrie does one of the WORST suplexes in history and the fans are already booing the fuck outta this. Cole says there are Torrie chants but I don’t hear anything but silence and scattered boos.

Tazz and Cole are taking about Maxim hair care products and this match is just awful. Fans are PISSSSSSED. Sable plays possum and somehow botches the roll up. Torrie’s whole right side isn't even on the mat but who cares Little Naitch counts three. 

*DUD but FAP.*

Backstage filler time! Dawn Marie trying her best to look sexy and interviews Dupree. Frenchy hits in her and does his French Tickler dance but Nunzio barges in and implies that he has “15 inches” but Dawn’s a dumbass and doesn’t get it. Dawn leaves with him and Stamboli makes a dick joke about Dupree. WHAT.

*Hardcore Holly vs Mordecai*

Okay, Mordecai had an awesome theme and that sword was fucking BEEEEEEAST. This would be his last appearance despite implying he was going to come after Eddie next. This match happened because of a brawl that Cole and Tazz can’t explain. :lmao. Cole already states this won’t be a pretty match. Thanks for the warning, bud.

Straght up brawling but they actually had some energy but the crowd is DEAD. Tazz has nicknamed Mordecai, the Pale Rider…Tazz has a problem with paleness in this PPV. 

This crowd hates chinlocks and this match is just pretty bland and the crowd is making random variation booing sounds. For some reason Cole is painting Mordecai as a face…but then again anyone compared to Hardcore Holly , anyone is a saint. Eventually, Mordecai escapes the ALABAMA SLAMMA and hits a Razor’s Edge which the crowd kind of liked.

**2/3- Better than the other filler matches, but Kevin Thorn/Mordecai wasn’t ready for the main roster and luckily they sent him down before he went for the bigger guys. *

After, the Summerslam 2004 promo. Taz points to no one in particular in the crowd and Cole looks at him like he’s an asshole…which he is. :lmao

*WWE Championship/Bull-Rope Match: JBL vs. Eddie Guerrero (c)*

Chimel takes a solid 10 minutes to explain the rules of the match. :lmao. I prefer the old WWE title design it looks so boss on Eddie and JBL afterwards.

The bell on the rope got really annoying really fast. Here’s a fun game: take a drink each time you here the bell make a sound…you’d be dead in the first 3 minutes. Cole and Tazz have no clue what the rules are but that’s fine cause the action is good.

Each time they touch the corner these lights go off because counting is hard for Nick Patrick. Eddie’s cunningness gets the better of JBL’s aggressiveness throughout the match. Eddie absolutely mollywops JBL with a chair…JBL’s bloody bloody bloody. These two took some wonderful chairshot in this feud.

During an awesome announce table spot JBL wraps the rope around Eddie’s neck and throws him onto the announce table which doesn’t break. Cole says it’s like rock or concrete. :lmao :lmao Cole, shut up. A minute later, JBL BOMB THROUGH THE “CONCRETE TABLE”. 

Since this is a four corners bullrope match, we get the only ending that ever happens in these things: they both get three and the good guy dives to touch the fourth one just in time.

EDDIE WINS!…nope Professor Xaiver Angle and the "Crowd Killer" Luther Reigns (who’s in a suit now) come out and show the replay which shows JBL’s shoulder hit the turnbuckle first. THE JBL ERA HAS BEGUN. Eddie’s facial reactions are just legendary… he sold shock and dissapointment so well

*****- Hard-hitting action, and great brawling which made the stipulation not as repetitive. The touching of the corners stalled the momentum at times, but it was rectified by the suspenseful and swerve of a finish. One of JBL’s finest matches and Eddie is just the man.*

*Undertaker vs. The Dudleyz w/ Paul Heyman*

The idea is that Taker is lost without Bearer, because those years and world titles without him never counted. Taker followed Heyman for awhile because Heyman had the urn. Also they are vague about the stipulations here. All they say is that Taker has to “do the right thing” or Bearer gets buried. :HHH2 

WAIT. The Dudleys are the tag team champions…what the fuck? Heyman’s got this little switch that will CEMENT Paul Bearer to death if Taker doesn’t DO the right thing. This is the main event storyline of a $35 PPV. Christ.

Now we get the really stupid part of this. Heyman gives us a “preview” by putting in some cement then turning it off. If it can be stopped, WHY DOES TAKER NOT GO LAY HEYMAN OUT AND TURN THE THING OFF??? LOGIC. Heyman is doing his best to sell this bullshit. :lmao 
Bubba wants Taker to lay down, and Taker lays down but then chokes Bubba and a brawl ensues.

BRD: “That man’s life is in your hands. LAY DOWN.” :lmao 

After a couple of minutes of Dudleyz doubling up Taker…Taker takes control and Heyman says “Bad Dog!” and loads in a lot more cement. :lmao Did I mention that this wasn’t live and a lot of the concrete stuff was taped earlier? This is AWFUL. 

Taker beats them down and goes after Heyman but the Dudleys make the save and Bubba stops the cement, saying they can take him out on their own. The fans are loudly booing now. The Dudleyz just double team Taker, Taker takes control, crowd is SO silent. 

More brawling ensues and D-Von eats Tombstone and Taker wins, Heyman looks like he’s eaten sour grapes. TAKER AIN’T DO THE RIGHT THING. A cheesy animated lighting strike stops Heyman dead in his tracks…and this is SO bad. :lmao. 

Heyman’s yelping but somehow escapes, and Bearer is happy BUT there’s concrete up to his chest….how the fuck is he talking and laughing? Taker says has no other choice…so BYE PAUL. Taker than “kills” Paul Bearer (and CM Punk doesn’t interrupt this time) and Great American Bash ends. Cole and Tazz are literally depressed but Taker could give less of a shit.

**3/4- I’m sorry this shouldn’t have been the main event…Eddie/JBL should have. This logically made NO sense. This was basically a 15-20 minute angle and it was just boring and awful. BUT Bearer and Heyman were :lmao*

*30/100: JBL and Guerrero and Rey and Chavo are two gems in a shitshow PPV. This should be Exhibit A of why brand split PPV’s suck…pointless matches, shitty filler segments and WHY THE FUCK WAS TAKER-3D MAIN EVENTING. *​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Summerslam 2003 match is on now, this any good? sounds fun except for old man Nash


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Summerslam 2003 match is on now, this any good? sounds fun except for old man Nash


Its fun. Goldberg mauls everyone then HHH ruins it at the end. Around *** for it.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Summerslam 2003 match is on now, this any good? sounds fun except for old man Nash


**** ½. The finish is really wierd but Trips played the coward role really well and Goldberg actually looked really dominant in this one. Early action was good too. It's just the finish and the booking decision that was a real headscratcher.*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Having a lot of fun with this review, decided I'm gonna post discs at a time then review the 2011-2013 EC matches which I'll find on YT. 

Disclaimer: I shit on Nash a lot during this


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LEAVE KEVIN NASH ALONE! *cries*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

His 90s stuff was decent, but he really should not have been in a match in 2003....period


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Funny thing is that Nash was probably involved in 2 of HHH's top 5 matches for 2003 :lmao (HIAC and EC with Nash involved, then WM with Booker, Raw Dec with HBK... and something else).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

alright, 2005 match starting now, Might not get the whole review done though, I'm going to party in like an hour.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Started NOC today and I'm wondering who decided Axel/Kingston needed over 13 minutes. That match felt long and was barely good enough for **. I also like Kofi so I wouldn't crap on it because of him.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> His 90s stuff was decent, but he really should not have been in a match in 2003....period


Damn, how'd you feel about him being in a match in 2011 then?


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Funny thing is that Nash was probably involved in 2 of HHH's top 5 matches for 2003 :lmao (HIAC and EC with Nash involved, then WM with Booker, Raw Dec with HBK... and something else).


*I don't know why that HIAC get so much shit, I watched BB '03 yesterday and I thought it was average/good considering Trips was injured and Nash was...immobile.

Their JD match though... :lmao*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Their HIAC match was decent. Nothing special, but not the worst.

Begs the question: Worst HIAC match? I imagine the worst would have to be one from the last four years at the gimmick PPV. MAYBE Bossman/Taker, though I don't think that's the worst.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bossman/Undertaker is DEFINITELY the worst HIAC match ever. Closest to its pure shittyness is Undertaker/Kane. *shudders*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pretty sure worst HIAC is Kane/Taker, as good as it sounds on paper it sucks, that was at HIAC 2010 I think


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Satan’s Prison: the Anthology of the Elimination Chamber DVD review​*
*Disc one​*
*Match # 1: Kane vs Chris Jericho vs HHH vs Shawn Michaels vs RVD vs Booker T( Survivor series 2002)*

Obviously this starts the set, as it was the first Elimination Chamber match in the history of the WWE. The thing I love about this was that it gave a lot of midcard talent a chance to shine in a ME match of a huge PPV. RVD, Booker T, and Kane had never really been considered Main Event talent, and this really helped their credibility. At The beginning of this when it was just RVD and HHH dragged a little, but it really wasn’t too bad, when Jericho got in, things started to get good. Jericho is working with HHH which really doesn’t make a lick of fuckin sense but whatever. RVD and Booker T are the first to get out and by the time HBK gets out there its just Kane, Jericho, HHH, and him. When HBK gets in this thing goes from fun to AWESOME. Jericho eliminates Kane and its down to Jericho, HHH, and HBK. HBK eliminates Jericho to an awesome pop and we are down to HBK vs HHH, the rematch from SS 2002. In the end HBK becomes the new WHC and it would ne his final world title reign. Such a great match, I think it was better at the time because it was new and fresh, but its still fun nearly 11 years later. **** ¼*

*Match # 2: Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs HHH vs HBK vs Goldberg vs Kevin Nash( Summerslam 2003)*

I’ve never seen this, but I’m calling it: Kevin Nash is gonna suck ass in this match :lol.. Because that’s what he does. Everyone else should be fun, however, are Orton and HHH working together to guarantee that HHH retains? I hope not, because that’d be boring as fuck. Anyways, I’ve hated on this much so much that I look like a butthurt mark, and the match hasn’t started yet :lol. 

Jericho and HBK start the match and right off the bat we have a mania rematch at Summerslam. I think this might be the first EC match where the champion starts off in a pod, well, considering this is only the third I’ve seen, its definitely true. Orton Is out third and I swear I’ve never seen his 2003 stuff, 2004-2005 were great and maybe this was too? Nash is out 4th and tears immediately begin running down my face . When Jericho gets him eliminated I actually went YES!!! and it was sort of a mark out moment. HHH is out next but then…NASH IS BACK……………….I cry once more. Luckily all he does is maul peple and leaves. GOLDBERG is out and mauls everyone and eliminates Orton, so its down to HHH, Goldberg, HBK, and Jericho. Goldberg fucking slams HBK through the glass and he is already MVP of this shit. One Jackhammer later and HBK is sent packing, so its down to HHH, HBK, and Jericho. Goldberg is fucking owning everything in site and fucking clears the ring. GOLDBERG FUCKING BREAKS THE GLASS and mauls HHH. However, within 5 minutes however, he hits Goldberg with a sledgehammer to win it and HHH is officially the John Cena of the Ruthless Agrresion era, Goldberg should of won..

Fucking awesome stuff, ending sucked but Goldberg makes the match, hands down. SO FUN. *** ¾* 

*Match # 3: Batista vs Edge vs HHH vs Chris Jericho vs Randy Orton vs Chris Benoit with HBK as special guest referee ( New years Revolution 2005)
*
CHRIS BENOIT IN A POST-DEATH DVD!!! This needs to happen more often. HBK is special ref here nd BENOIT and Jericho start out. Per the usual in EC matches the beginning is a little slow, but picks up when HHH enters. Apparently this is in Puerto Rico so they are counting it is in Spanish which is something you don’t see everyday. Edge is out next and things really start to pick up here. HBK at one point gives his patented superkick to Edge and Jericho does a lionsault and uno..dos..tres..Edge is out. This crowd is fucking incredible and Batista is out last and starts mauling everyone but HHH. All of a sudden, HHH and Batista have a stand off but decide to team up. Batista pins Benoit and this is an awesome match with an awesome as fuck crowd. Batista is the MVP of the night BY FAR and is the Goldberg of the Summerslam 2003 match. One Batista bomb later Jericho is out and we are down to HHH, Orton, and Batista. Batista and HHH pound on Orton for a while and we reach a little bit of a slower point in the match. Batista soon gets eliminates and we are down to two former partners. Flair starts to come in but HBK says “hell no”and beats the fuckin shit out of him :lol. In the nend HHH wins and would go on to drop that shit at mania to Batista. Awesome match, **** ½* 

*CURRENT EC RANKINGS 
1: New Years Revolution 2005: **** 1/2*
2: Survivor series 2002: **** 1/4*
3: Summerslam 2003: *** 3/4*​*


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Taker/Bossman was garbage but luckily people don't remember it as much due to Austin-Rock, Trips turning on DX and Bart Gunn getting KNOCKED THA FUGG OUT.





:lmao

Kane/Taker was so boring and plodding and the feud was just...dragging on forever.*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

never seen svs 02 ec, hear its pretty good, and the :mark: winner and celebration at the end,

Re-watching Heyman/Brock invaded WWE HQ, the is a top 5 segment of this year :lmao comedy gold


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd much rather watch Taker vs Boss Man over HHH vs HBK.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Best of 17th to 24th of November 1991 WCW

Felt logging them as weeks would have a better flow to it. Anyway, best of this week of WCW.

Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat vs the Enforcers 11/19/91 ****1/4
Sting vs Cactus Jack 11/23/91 ***1/4
Sting vs Rick Rude 11/19/91 ***
Brian Pillman vs Richard Morton 11/23/91 ***
Rick Steiner vs Lex Luger 11/19/91 ***
Steve Armstrong vs Mr Hughes 11/24/91 **1/2
Michael Hayes & Jimmy Garvin vs Young Pistols 11/23/91 **1/2
Steve Austin vs P.N News 11/19/91 **1/2

Felt like I revised that list a few times over. Felt so uncertain of a couple of matches (Pillman/Morton & the 2nd tag) that I changed their ratings twice, along with rewatching.

Good week of quality. Obviously influenced by Clash of Champions 17.

Next up is 25 Nov-1 Dec.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You guys, (shaking my head), you are forgetting the obvious worst cell match ever. Come on, it's gotta be the Kennel from Hell match with Al Snow and Bossman. Dogs humping and shitting outside the ring while two guys absolutely stink the joint out? Nothing tops that, one of the worst matches ever period. I highly reccomend you all watch it, just for comedy sake.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think we all try and forget that match the best we can. Plus it's not technically a HIAC match anyway .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh it counts as a Cell match Cal, it counts. :lol

Anyone else think Trips is better on the mic now doing these "best for business" promos at the start of each show than he's ever been? I've honestly never ever been a fan of Hunter on the mic, but I'd be lying if I said he hasn't been killing it every week since Summerslam. Watching him bury Miz right now is just tremendous :lmao

Edit- god Miz has the most punch able face in the world. What in gods name is WWE doing trying to pass this guy off as a fan favorite? I can't look at him with that stupid smug look and slicked back hair for more than 5 seconds without wanting to just deck him. I bet he's actually not a bad guy in real life, but man that face.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I only remember the post-match hanging of Bossman. That overshadows (or should) the poor cell match they had.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oliver-94 said:


> I only remember the post-match hanging of Bossman. That overshadows (or should) the poor cell match they had.


Wanna know something funny? I didn't even remember that that happened after the kennel match. I mean I know it occurred I had just completely forgotten that was after their kennel match. The image of dogs humping while Michael Cole tries to pass it off on commentary as dogs "fighting" is just too effing much :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doesn't count dammit! 

It's not Hell in a Cell, it's Cage and dogs fucking in a Cell .

WCW using the HIAC structure for regular old cage matches towards the end was awesome. KIDMAN VS THE WALL HIAC~!

I liked the triple cage though. And Ready to Rumble.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Wasn't the Bossman/Taker Cell match over Stephanie's teddy bear or some shit? The hanging was pretty cool as a kid (that sounded super sociopathic)

BTW: Next up on the Worst Brand Split PPV's list is Armageddon 2004 (The Miz in a boxing match!?)*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Bossman feud happened because Undertaker was trying to take over the WWF so Vince sent Bossman to stop him. The bit with Stephanie's teddy was just mind games from Undertaker showing that he could go anywhere and do anything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I liked the triple cage though. And Ready to Rumble.


<3

That match is actually pretty bumpin'. It's a surreal sight when they're brawling on the second tier cage + the brief portion at the very top.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Wasn't the Bossman/Taker Cell match over Stephanie's teddy bear or some shit? The hanging was pretty cool as a kid (that sounded super sociopathic)
> 
> BTW: Next up on the Worst Brand Split PPV's list is Armageddon 2004 (The Miz in a boxing match!?)*


Please do some WCW PPVs as well. I would recommend Uncensored 95 and Halloween Havoc 94. That Hogan/Flair cage match was one of the worst matches I have ever seen, yet at the same time it was hilarious.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Wanna know something funny? I didn't even remember that that happened after the kennel match. I mean I know it occurred I had just completely forgotten that was after their kennel match. The image of dogs humping while Michael Cole tries to pass it off on commentary as dogs "fighting" is just too effing much :lmao


 And you shouldn't remember too because it happened after Bossman - Taker cell match, not the kennel match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

5 matches down, and this 2001 PPV has a whole 2 on the CAL SCALE. You guys aren't gonna believe which is the MOTN so far either. Main event will give it a boost, but if the other matches (not sure how many more are left) don't get SOME points, this might not even pass Insurrextion (6.5 overall) .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I recall liking the Hogan vs Flair match from Havoc. It's the Uncensored 1999 one that's more of the joke. Which is funny, b/c if it wasn't for the first blood stip _(and the alignment fuckery)_ the work seen would make the match pretty solid. It's too bad about the shit booking that made it an instant farce.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That Antonio Cesaro, man he is so effing strong. He was just spinning Titus O'Neil around by his ankles like he's nothing. 

That Flair vs Hogan at Havoc match is on the History of the WHC set I have, one of the 2-3 matches I haven't seen on it yet. Ill have to check it out, I had just assumed it would be horrid because of the way Flair talks about it in his book.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Please do some WCW PPVs as well. I would recommend Uncensored 95 and Halloween Havoc 94. That Hogan/Flair cage match was one of the worst matches I have ever seen, yet at the same time it was hilarious.


*You read my mind. I definitely have some shitty WCW PPV's to watch, I heard a lot about Uncensored 95 and it should be fun since I never saw it or most of WCW pre-97 tbh.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hogan/Flair HH 94 cage match is AWESOME. **** awesome. Loved it when I watched it for the WCW Poll. Hell it ended up #24 on the overall list!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Hogan/Flair HH 94 cage match is AWESOME. **** awesome. Loved it when I watched it for the WCW Poll. Hell it ended up #24 on the overall list!


Good lord, you couldn't think of 24 Vader matches better than that? Are you even a real Vader fan?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was #16 on my list, with only 3 Vader matches over it 8*D. 5 Vader matches over it on the overall list 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> That Antonio Cesaro, man he is so effing strong. He was just spinning Titus O'Neil around by his ankles like he's nothing.
> 
> That Flair vs Hogan at Havoc match is on the History of the WHC set I have, one of the 2-3 matches I haven't seen on it yet. Ill have to check it out, I had just assumed it would be horrid because of the way Flair talks about it in his book.


He was more upset about it b/c it was another WCW match where Bischoff screwed him over. It was a "retirement" match so Flair was gone for about eight months. Didn't work his first match till Slamboree '95.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> He was more upset about it b/c it was another WCW match where Bischoff screwed him over. It was a "retirement" match so Flair was gone for about eight months. Didn't work his first match till Slamboree '95.


Yea I guess that was it, that was in Detroit where he made them bring a new contract before he would go out and wrestle, right? Ill definitely have to check it out then, thanks man.


Who do you think owned 2013 more, The Shield or Daniel Bryan?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Righty-o.

Danielson or Shield? Yikes. Hard to say and that's about the best answer I could give. Take your pick. Toss Cesaro into the mix too, b/c you kind of almost have to. All of them this year; unbelievable.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I had Hogan/Flair at #60.

Looking at my WCW list now, there are matches on there I literally don't remember even happened.



> 80. Big Van Vader v Ricky Steamboat (Worldwide 4/25/93)


this isn't the lumberjack, I had that at #47. Like, honestly, I have no recollection of this whatsoever.



> 59. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v The Midnight Express (Clash of the Champions 12/7/88)


It seems ridiculous that I would forget this match, but I have. If someone told me about this I'd probably go 'I NEED TO SEE THAT', not knowing I watched and loved it.

There are three or four multi-man DA tags that I'm going 'oh that was awesome; definitely remember that' and then it winds up being a different match on the list I'm thinking about, too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Oh my god. That Santino-Slater match. JBL just said it right, Smackdown just jumped the shark. That's the kind of shit that makes you embarrassed to be a grown man watching the current WWE product. Wow. Thankfully the crowd shit all over it.

Yes Hayley, Cesaro should be mentioned as well. I was just watching the six man Shield tag on Smackdown, and thinking about how amazing it is that these guys have really only been on the show less than a year, yet have somehow managed to completely own it. I don't know 1 wrestling fan who doesn't love the Shield. They are just fantastic, no weak links and they are almost always the best part of every show/event they are on. But the same could definitely be said of Bryan too, his ring work this year has just been excitement personified. I actually end up standing up without realizing it while watching his high energy act at the end of his matches.

I hope WWE doesn't jump the gun and break up the Shield too soon. Yes I'd love to see them in singles matches, but watching their 6 man tags and the way they work together is just such a treat. Maybe they can just go their separate ways at some point without fighting it out. And rejoin as a unit every once in a while when the time calls for it.

I am kind of annoyed they chose an Uso to be the first person to pin Reigns, but dammit if every other aspect of that 11-3 match wasn't absolute perfection.

Edit-Yeah1993, I've seen that Steamboat-Vader match, it's damn good, it's on YouTube. You were right to rate the Lumberjack way ahead of it though, that match is truly special. One of the main reasons I bought the History of the WHC set is so I could own that match on DVD. Steamboat's GOAT babyface selling for one of the all time great monster heels is a recipe for wrestling bliss.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just got home from a dinner date ( love italian food) 

whats everyone watching ? How was smackdown ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> just got home from a dinner date ( love italian food)
> 
> whats everyone watching ? How was smackdown ?




Smackdown was meh. Orton destroying Miz at the end was fun, PTP vs Real Americans was solid, as was Shield vs Ziggler/RVD/Kofi. Everything else was forgettable. And for the love of god, do NOT watch the Slater-Marella match. It has the most embarrassing thing I've seen WWE do in a while. fpalm


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

> Ric Flair/Barry Windham v The Midnight Express (Clash of the Champions 12/7/88)


Never have I hated myself more than right now b/c I don't remember this AT ALL.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Never have I hated myself more than right now b/c I don't remember this AT ALL.


Is this on the Clash DVD ? anybody know ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm actually gonna be reviewing that tag match after I take a well deserved nap.

I just watched Slater vs. Santino. Even worse than Rock/Punk RR. Worse than Undertaker/Undertaker. Worse than freaking Rick Rude vs. Masahiro Chono!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm actually gonna be reviewing that tag match after I take a well deserved nap.
> 
> I just watched Slater vs. Santino. Even worse than Rock/Punk RR. Worse than Undertaker/Undertaker. Worse than freaking Rick Rude vs. Masahiro Chono!


That doesn't even begin to describe the shame I felt after watching that travesty of a match. Santino-Slater gets worst match of the year honors until further notice. That shit was just horrid. Fuck off Santino.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Surely, Santino-Slater wasn't worse than Bald Eagle-Hornswoggle? Although, Cole saying Horny couldn't flip the bird was all types of :lmao*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Surely, Santino-Slater wasn't worse than Bald Eagle-Hornswoggle? Although, Cole saying Horny couldn't flip the bird was all types of :lmao*



Watch it before you say that. Seriously


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Watch it before you say that. Seriously


*It'll have to wait, I'm watching the Dixie Dog Fight.: 

One can only watch so much crap in such a short amount of time!*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watching GOAT/hogan HH 94, this was the good one right ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Watching GOAT/hogan HH 94, this was the good one right ?


That's the word on the street from Hayley, bout to pop it in myself.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I swear, every time I go down to visit my girlfriend I come back with SO MUCH SHIT. Another big purchase of wrestling dvds:

Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come BLU RAY (obvious reasons why I bought this)

ECW Unreleased Vol. 1 (too many goodies on here to pass up for $12)

Summerslam 2004 (don't care what anyone else thinks of this show, it holds one of the absolute fondest moments of my wrestling childhood and it's been far too long since I've seen it)

The History of the Intercontinental Championship (I'm really not sure why I bought this. I own like 80% of the matches on other dvds, but I guess the other 20% will be nice to add to the collection like HHH/Rock 2/3 Falls, Umaga/Hardy, RVD/Shelton, & a couple Tito Santana matches. It was only $5 anyway)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I swear, every time I go down to visit my girlfriend I come back with SO MUCH SHIT. Another big purchase of wrestling dvds:
> 
> Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come BLU RAY (obvious reasons why I bought this)
> 
> ...


Quit making me feel like an old fart with comments like "Summerslam 2004 was one of the fondest memories of my childhood" . 

Definitely worth buying, if only for that superb Orton-Benoit match. Classic. And you still haven't even watched/reviewed the Kane set yet! I haven't gotten around to it either, matter of fact :cool2

Gosh this Hogan/Flair cage match is glorious. So simple but so effective. LMAO at the Sherri spot that just happened, I bet Cal was just FAP'n away for that one. Ohhhh maybe he wasn't, definitely just saw copious amounts of cellulite while she was running around the ring. Don't know what his standards are. She just took one hell of a bump for a 40 year old woman. Props Sherri. She's got my vote as the GOAT female valet. Yea I'm still a sucker for Hogan hulking up, I can't help myself. Hogan might not be a technical wrestler, but dammit if he can't structure a match and work fantastic crowd psychology better than half the current WWE roster. His shtick is just timeless. Hulkster gets the 1-2-3, crowd goes wild. Flair was tremendous, Hulk was tremendous, the match was wonderful. Glad I checked that out, ***3/4 from me, FUN stuff.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Quit making me feel like an old fart with comments like "Summerslam 2004 was one of the fondest memories of my childhood" .
> 
> Definitely worth buying, if only for that superb Orton-Benoit match. Classic. And you still haven't even watched/reviewed the Kane set yet! I haven't gotten around to it either, matter of fact :cool2


Well, I was 12 at the time. (Not sure whether that helps or hurts you feeling like an old fart... )

Kane set is on tap after I rewatch EC from this year, or at least matches I wanna see again. After that? Who the fuck knows!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I got the Kane set in the mail after I ordered WM 25 from WWE.com in 2009. I should probably throw that in sometime. That set is probably better than Mania.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well, I was 12 at the time. (Not sure whether that helps or hurts you feeling like an old fart... )
> 
> Kane set is on tap after I rewatch EC from this year, or at least matches I wanna see again. After that? Who the fuck knows!


That makes me feel better, I was 17-18 at the time (born aug 28 not sure if it was before or after that) so that's not SO bad.

I made it through Kane's first match at Survivor Series against Mankind (really held up, way better than I recall it being, Foley worked and bumped his ass off to make Kane seem unstoppable) and his match with Stone Cold at KotR. Still got tons more. Kane is one of those guys I ALWAYS appreciate while watching him, but he's never a guy I get in the mood for, if that makes sense. Guys like Eddie, Foley, Benoit, Lesnar, Vader, Flair, and Undertaker, sometimes ill see one match of theirs and just end up spending the rest of my day watching their matches because I adore them so much. Kane never elicits that kind of Pavlovian response from me. In fact that's why I didn't make it any farther the first time I tried watching the Kane set because I watched the Mankind match and immediately got in a Foley mood and put in his match at KotR against Undertaker :lol

You know what? I don't have shit to do tomorrow until my girlfriend gets home from work, I'm popping the Kane set in when I get up and watching the whole damn thing. Done deal.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I'll always love DX vs. The McMahons & The Big Show in HIAC from Unforgiven '06. SO entertaining and awesome. :datass

The ending always makes me go "FUCK!" though. That sledgehammer to the back of the head of Vince and the sledgehammer breaking.. Just awesome. :mark: :mark: :mark: But Shane really made me nervous, he seemed really fucked up out of all of them after that elbow drop to the chair with his neck wrapped in the chair. He sold that brilliantly if he wasn't that hurt.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

watched Thy Kingdom Come today and it was fuckin awesome. the stephanie part about how they hooked up was interesting. i thought they would end it with the lesnar feud but still great regardless. 10/10


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ROCK VS HHH HIGHRONMAN MATCH.

Let's do it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> Never have I hated myself more than right now b/c I don't remember this AT ALL.


You see what I mean? H-How could this match even slip my mind? I sometimes forget if I've watched something, but I don't usually forget that something even HAPPENED (if I watched and loved it).

I actually managed to find this generic piece of crap that I wrote about it when talking about the late-88 NWA: 



> Flair & Windham v MX from the same show rules the Earth and is near (or in, IDR) my top half. Just a great match with the perfect formula of shine-to-heel beatdown-to-hot tag. The end of the FIP looked odd, and Stan Lane's shitty spinkick things don't make for good hot tag moves, but lil' negatives aside this ruled. Flair looked as good as ever in late 88 (which is closing in on his 89 so it's probably not a surprise).


The fact that what I wrote was so plain and not very interesting probably wouldn't help the memory (I tend to remember matches that I write specific things about), but Flair & Windham v. MX is pretty much a dream match so why would I forget this?



redskins25 said:


> Watching GOAT/hogan HH 94, this was the good one right ?


The BATB match was every bit as good, I thought. I could watch both again and say it was actually better.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Jesus CHRIST. :mark:


----------



## hhhfan474 (Nov 7, 2006)

Re; Triple H "Thy Kingdome Come"

Because it doesn't release here until October, and I can't wait that long for my copy to arrive...I just watched the whole documentary on Daily Motion.

I love that the focus was more on Paul Levesque rather than Triple H. He's had the career DVDs so this was something different and really refreshing.

You can't help but have so much respect for what he's achieved and how hard he worked to get there...and how hard he continues to work. His schedule is insane and just makes me feel incredibly lazy.

It was nice to here his opinions on certain things, especially the Orton match at Mania. I think you could tell despite the stip hurting them and following the Shawn/Taker match that he was really disappointed in himself. He knew that storyline deserved a better match so I'm glad he addressed that honestly. You really get a sense of how respected he is from the other wrestlers and staff as well. Plus Vince clearly loves him a whole lot.

There were a lot of tidbits here as well that were really great and that I'd never heard before, i.e Big Show's wife catching Hunter and Steph making out at a mall, and all the Blu-Ray extras. If you haven't caught the them I suggest you check them out....especially the Levesque's playing the Newlywed game.

Overall, definitely worth a watch for any wrestling fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> You see what I mean? H-How could this match even slip my mind? I sometimes forget if I've watched something, but I don't usually forget that something even HAPPENED (if I watched and loved it).
> 
> I actually managed to find this generic piece of crap that I wrote about it when talking about the late-88 NWA:
> 
> ...


Really now. It's odd. I'm almost sure I've even even seen it, let along realizing it actually occurred. C'mon, Cody.

and for my money, Hogan vs Flair from BATB is pretty much their best match ever. Although, most were really good & really fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Kinda off-topic, but the Battleground theme song - Fall Out Boy's "The Mighty Fall" - is fucking awesome imo. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Well that escalated quickly. My short nap turned into full-on sleep. Still gonna try to do this review of COTC IV.

What alternate dimension am I in where Hogan/Flair and Fall Out Boy are praised while Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit isn't?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's what I talked about a while ago: for YouTubers and other outsiders, this is wrestling's Bizarro World :lmao

Angle/Benoit IS praised when deserved. WM 17 is very good. Judgment Day '01 is fucking amazing. And that's it 

Oh, and everyone has to have at least one hit. Even Fall Out Boy. 

EDIT: Cesaro did the Cesarocopter to *Titus O'Neil*. Give him the fucking WWE Title, and Streak match at Mania 30, please.

EDIT 2: Orton/Miz deserves ***1/2 tbph. Not joking. Best Miz performance ever w/_great _storytelling along the way.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Clash of the Champions IV: Season's Beatings*​*NWA United States Tag Team Championship*
Ron Simmons and Eddie Gilbert vs. The Fantastics - *****1/4*

"Dr. Death" Steve Williams vs. The Italian Stallion - **1/2*

Ivan Koloff vs. Paul Jones - *DUD*

Dusty Rhodes vs. Animal - ****

Barry Windham and Ric Flair vs. The Midnight Express - *****1/4*​
-Okay so that opening US Tag Title match ruled. The powerful yet inexperienced Simmons teamed with the brash yet confident Gilbert to face off against the quick and experienced Fantastics. Best way I could describe this match is that it's similar to a really good football match. So much good stuff here such as Ron Simmons being taken advantage of by the Fantastics for his inexperience, but Simmons wrestles a "smarter" match as the match goes on by hitting cheap shots on The Fantastics and tagging in Gilbert when he has an opening (which will be a factor that comes in to justify the ending). 

It is also worth noting that this is a face/face match done almost perfectly. Initially, the crowd was erring on the side of The Fantastics and the momentum was in favor of them until Simmons started figuring things out. Once the momentum shifted to The Fantastics' favor, they used their wrestling savviness to neutralize Simmons' power game and force him to tag in Eddie Gilbert. For a while we get some fun back-and-forth until the meat of the match comes in.

Did I forget to mention that Gilbert was nursing a bad arm injury? Because that was the central figure behind Gilbert's outstanding babyface work when he comes in. Seriously, this should rank as the most underappreciated FIP segment of all-time. Eddie Gilbert single-armedly (<_<) turned the Chattanooga crowd to be entirely in his favor with his amazing selling of the injured arm. The guy kept fighting to create an opening for himself and to get the highly anticipated hot tag in for Simmons, but The Fantastics are too good to allow that to happen. When Gilbert finally gets his opening with a surprise HOTSHOT, ultimately his brash and confident self makes the biggest mistake of all and does not tag in his partner Simmons, a stark contrast to Simmons who trusted his partner whenever he had the chance. We don't get our hot tag here and The Fantastics win the match to a chorus of boos, but I have to say that I am now a fan of Hotstuff Eddie Gilbert. All you Dolphins that aren't familiar with Gilbert have got to watch this match as he drew the same type of sympathy from me that I got from Dolph/ADR at Payback.

-American Dr. Death Steve Williams is a different man compared to his Puro stuff. This sucked and went on for 15 minutes.

-Save me. Ivan Koloff is wrestling. At least we get to hear an interview from JYD and JASON HERVEY!

-Rhodes/Animal was a feud advancer and nothing more. At least it wasn't Rhodes/Sullivan. For three minutes, it actually wasn't bad. DAT STING being awesome and badass like he always does at COTC. He doesn't have a match here, but this continues to be Sting's event thus far. Post-match stuff was really fun.

-And now for the main event we all love and forget.

I guess I can understand why we all forget about what happened in this match. This was more-or-less a showcase match between the biggest tag team and the biggest stars of the biggest stable. Match also went exactly as we expected. However, that does not mean it isn't bad. It's just SO MUCH FUN! Face Midnight Express is better than I thought.

The basic structure of the match is one where the faces are out there jumping around and beating the crap out of Ric Flair who just wasn't on his game tonight (in kayfabe of course. He was still GOATing by bumping around). It isn't until Windham forces himself into the match where things change into the Horsemen's favor. Like Lebron James when he tries to get his teammates into the action of the game, Barry Windham then tags in Flair to give him a great predicament where he can take control and do his Flair-isms. A cool little thing happens where Flair exerts all his prior frustrations in the match by throwing some fists in the corner.

I tell you what, Jim Cornette is earning his money out there by hyping up the crowd. The next step to everything here is a strong FIP segment from the Midnight Express. Did I mention that this is BOBBY EATON that is the FIP? He wasn't as awesome as Eddie Gilbert, but he more than did his job of building up the hot tag for Lane. :lol at Lane's awful kicks. No wonder Yeah1993 took note of this. Nonetheless, this was still pretty cool. Ending kinda came in quick for a dirty finish, but it did its job in keeping everyone looking strong. This really looked like the Midnight Express' night with how they were able to destroy Flair, but The Horsemen always find a way, even against the best tag team in the world. Cornette's post-match promo is REALLY good and sums up why this match was so good.

:heyman2 sighting!

Overall, this was an event with horrible midcard stuff but two awesome tag matches. What tipped this event into the really good section was the Sting/Rhodes stuff. Much better than COTC 2 and 3. I know we all want to rewatch that main event, but please go watch the opener too. Eddie Gilbert was the MVP of the night BY FAR.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Midnights vs Flair/Windham, it's great but it's nothing more than that imo. Came across as a typical tag done with big names and the performances of Eaton & Flair. It was definately one of Lane's weaker days & I remember nothing of Windham's performance. I like it but I'll probably be fine never watching it again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Angle/Benoit IS praised when deserved. Judgment Day '01 is fucking amazing. And that's it


Oh boy. Just wait until you read my next 2001 PPV Ramble :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck off, my opinion stands by :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips doc is GOAT and my favourite one ever made which comes as a huge surprise to absolutely nobody I'm sure . If I get some time maybe I'll do a small write up but fucking hell doing a Masters is hard work. I wish somebody told me before I handed over 4k.....

I managed to watch the 11 v 3 handicap tag from Raw again and :mark:. The Shield can just do no wrong in my eyes with Reigns being the star of the show in this one. I swear if a bunch of Shield tags don't make the Best of Raw/SD 2013 I will complain so hard on the internet it won't even be funny. Definite ****1/2* and just a whole lot of fun really. Loved it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Smackdown Shield tag was pretty fun as well. ROMAN REIGNS catches RVD when he's doing an apron moonsault and tosses him to the ground. He also delivered a painful spear and a cool looking powerbomb-like throw on Ziggler.

:reigns


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Angle Judgement Day '01 is a pile of shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Benoit vs Angle Judgement Day '01 is a pile of shit.


We don't always agree, but when we do it's on important stuff like this .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:hb

Did you watch that show yet, btw? I'd say everything else on it is a blast. Chyna vs Lita is fine enough too b/c Chyna's boob pops out midway. aka FAP rating. But really, I think it's an utter blast pardon Benoit vs Angle. Crowd goes bonkers when Kane defeats Trips. So good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It feels imo, like, the only truly gritty, hard-fought match those two had with each other. No submission overkill, no no-selling bullshit, no senseless spots. But to each his own


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I thought the majority was senseless. Best fall was the one minute pinfall only part. I'm still in favor with only their WM match & Steel Cage as the ultimate guilty pleasure. I know it's spotty and all that jazz, but I enjoy it for that aspect alone. Not gonna say it's great, but the spots leave me entertained.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> :hb
> 
> Did you watch that show yet, btw? I'd say everything else on it is a blast. Chyna vs Lita is fine enough too b/c Chyna's boob pops out midway. aka FAP rating. But really, I think it's an utter blast pardon Benoit vs Angle. Crowd goes bonkers when Kane defeats Trips. So good.


Don't you dare talk about Chyna being FAP worthy in any way. Urgh. She makes me wanna vomit :lmao.

Half way into the show. Stopped last night before the chain match, just watched that and now I'm into the Tag Team Turmoil match (APA~!). So far the show has been mostly fun but not good enough on the old STARS~! to give it a decent CAL SCALE rating .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

After Judgment Day, you could go after Rebellion. That's a fun show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Don't you dare talk about Chyna being FAP worthy in any way. Urgh. She makes me wanna vomit :lmao.
> 
> Half way into the show. Stopped last night before the chain match, just watched that and now I'm into the Tag Team Turmoil match (APA~!). So far the show has been mostly fun but not good enough on the old STARS~! to give it a decent CAL SCALE rating .


Another guilty pleasure I suppose. 8*D

Hmm, really? I thought Regal vs Rikishi was a ton more fun that originally expecting (not a Rikishi fan) & the Hardcore championship filled up my needs of what should be given at that time. I'm into the event. Best three matches, however, are the Chain, Tag Team Turmoil, & Undertaker vs Austin. So maybe that'll up things for ya.

Tag Team Turmoil is something else. The "other" teams actually feel like they get the time to shine over the more frequent talents like Dudleys, Hardys or Edge & Christian. E&C are a technicality b/c of their placing. I'm just really big on it, personally.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thought Rikishi/Regal was fun but was incredible short and didn't really have THAT much to it to justify a high rating or anything. Hardcore match is fun no doubt. Doesn't hold a candle to the Backlash one though (Oh god I can't wait :mark. TTT is looking sweeeet as fuck atm.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a total blast. Long winded, but in the good kind of capacity. Can't believe it got all the emphasis that it did. T'was the precursor to the impressive week following the PPV, after all.

I got to own Backlash '01 soon. If only for Rhyno vs Raven.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

No blood, no excessive/mindless violence. That hardcore brawl epitomises the reality that those matches are not bound to TV-14/R-rated products. Absolute beaut of a match, even if it barely scraped 8 minutes in length.

I don't remember anything from the show being absolute classics yet the show, as a whole, was exceptionally fun.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I keep saying it, but god I want the Hardcore division back .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not to mention bring back free agent Rhino to headline it. He should be used better, but I wouldn't object if this actually happened. Balls deep in FUN.


----------



## Asenath (Oct 3, 2012)

I just finished the HHH documentary. I genuinely forgot how much I used to love HHH, back in the day. If you thought ladyparts were inflamed for the Shield, you never saw women-oriented wrestling e-groups salivate over DX. 

I was disappointed that they nearly erased Chyna from the tale. I understand why, but -- there was a hole there in the telling of the story. Kevin Nash was not as odious as usual, so, there's that. 

But, seriously - I stopped watching in about 02, and didn't come back until the Pipebomb. So, I guess it was easy to forget how good HHH used to be as opposed to the way he was awkwardly shoehorned in the new material. But recent events and this documentary brought back the old nostalgia.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HayleySabin said:


> Not to mention bring back free agent Rhino to headline it. He should be used better, but I wouldn't object if this actually happened. Balls deep in FUN.


WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* WE WANT RHYNO *CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP* 

Oh shit, imagine ROMAN REIGNS in the hardcore division? Vs RHYNO? SPEAR VS GORE? Oh god. THAT is fap worthy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2001*

JUDGMENT DAY IS UPON US!


*William Regal Vs Rikishi*

Yep, Rikishi is face now. After running Austin over and all that shit not that long ago lol.

But this is wrestling, and apparently one stink face to Stephanie and the fans forgave him for nearly killing their favourite wrestler at the time. And then for trying to do the same to The Rock. But Austin is heel now so who cares about that, right? And Rock isn't around atm so fuck him too. LET'S ALL CHEER RIKISHI AGAIN YEY!!!

:lmao Regal got SWAG when he avoids being crushed by Rikishi. He does a cocky little dance with a smirk on his face then boots the Kish in the back for good measure.

STINK FACE~! EXTRA SUPER LONG STINK FACE~!

:lmao at Regal's reaction :lmao










Then Regal gets his head smashed into the steps and a superkick to the face and he his BUSTED WIDE OPEN. Side steps a splash in the corner, hits that cross arm neck breaker thingy and gets the win! Go Regal!

Short, but hilariously fun.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - 2 out of 3 Falls Match for Kurt Angle's Gold Medals - First Fall Pin Only. Second Fall Submission Only. Third Fall Ladder Match*

HOLD ON MEDALS COS DADDY'S COMING FOR YA!

DIVING HEADBUTT BY ANGLE! He misses. ANGLE SLAM BY BENOIT! He hits it and gets the win. First fall is over in about 2 minnutes lol.

Balls. Benoit no longer has any after Angle SMASHES THEM into the ring post. Ouch. I'd submit from that lol.

Some fun little sequences on the mat as both men go for their signature submissions and keep countering each other.

Angle is a moron for the most part in this fall. Keeps throwing out suplexes and shit. Meanwhile Benoit is constantly trying to apply a submission hold.

WALLS OF JERICHO BY BENOIT~! EPIC FORESHADOWING TO LATER TONIGHT WHEN *SPOILER* BENOIT TEAMS WITH JERICHO~!

What to Benoit and The Miz have in common? THEY BOTH SUCK AT FIGURE FOUR LEG LOCKS. Good GOD, Benoit's is terrible :lmao. It's so fucked up that when Angle tries to turn it over to apply the pressure to Benoit's leg... Benoit is still somehow on his back while Angle is on his belly :lmao. HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT EVEN WORK?!?!

So Benoit spends most of the second fall applying different submission holds and always looking for the submission win. Angle hits random suplexes, then an Angle Slam, then the Ankle Lock and Benoit suddenly taps out. Uhhh... what?

Ladder match time. Great advice by Edge earlier. Falling off sucks, so don't do it!

:lmao Angle gets the shittiest looking ladder ever out. Looks smaller than the average ladder, and looks like some crap they'd pull out from under the ring at a UK PPV (if you remember my 2000 review of either Rebellion or Insurrextion I mentioned how cheap and shitty the weapons looked compared to the standard American ones lol).

Wow, this might be the dullest ladder match ever. Little happened. E&C show up and distract Benoit while Angle gets back his Gold Medals.

2 out of 3 falls it might officially be, but 3 stages of hell it was.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Undertaker threatens Regal and forces him to make the title match tonight No Holds Barred. Now poor Regal has to inform Austin!

Oh hey, Jerry Lynn. He's the Light Heavyweight Champion. And at WWF New York. He says he should be there defending the title. Don't think he's around for much longer. WWF didn't do SHIT with him.


*Test Vs Rhyno Vs The Big Show - Hardcore Championship Match*

HARDCORE TITLE MATCH :mark:. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

:lmao Rhyno gets buried by the steel steps.

Rhyno nearly goes through a wall. Awesome. Big Show gets knocked off a ledge and onto a stack of pallets!

With Show taken out, Rhyno and Test get back to the ring and things can get super fun with all the crazy weapons .

Oh shiiiit, Big Show is back! GORE! GORE! GORE!

TRASH CAN LID~!

GORE! GORE! GORE! GORE THROUGH A TRASH CAN! GORE! Big Show is dead. Rhyno retains the title.

Fun match. Not the best hardcore title match we'll see, but still solid.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


:lmao at Regal trying to build up the courage to tell Austin about the NHB stip.

LITA FAP FAP FAP. She's on the floor with her legs spread and oh GOD FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

Eddie Guerrero shows up. Remember when he was tring to kinda be babyface and friendly with the Hardy Boys? Shame that never went anywhere because... well you know. Drugs and shit.

Regal finally tells Austin. Austin doesn't give a shit. Regal doesn't need to have a shit.


*Chyna Vs Lita - WWF Women's Championship Match*

"AMAZING OVATION FOR LITA!" Well I'm certainly standing up for her. While sitting down. WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE FAP FAP.

:lmao JR claims that Heyman would look good in the outfit Chyna is wearing, especially in some of the places he does in new York (implying Heyman cross dresses lol). So Heyman without delay says he actually leant Chyna the outfit. God I love Heyman. Not as much as I love LITA.

HUG~! The match starts with a hug.

Fun stuff to start with both trying to outdo the other. And then Chyna decks LITA with an elbow to the face. Ouch.

SPANK ME LITA. Someone stole my sign, I see...

This match all came about because Chyna claimed there was no challenges for her in the women's division. Lita made a challenge and this match was made. So Chyna keeps showing everyone with her power that yeah, she probably doesn't have any competition, at least in that department. Lita has to use her speed and unique offence to try and stay in the match and hopefully win the title.

Chyna keeps trying to destroy LITA but LITA is a SURVIVOR and won't give up, forcing Chyna to keep upping her game.

In the end though, a powerbomb puts an end to Lita's challenge and Chyna retains her belt .

A good match. I liked it. Chyna isn't around much longer after this though, and she takes the title with her or something and we don't see it again until Survivor Series lol.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Triple H Vs Kane - WWF Intercontinental Championship Chain Match*

So a chain match is where both guys are tied together with a chain. Bah, should have been a chain on a pole match 8*D. Undertaker gets it. He would have one in a few years time with Brock. BIKER CHAIN (ON A POLE) MATCH~!

HHH attacks Kane before the referee can attach the chain to them. He's going after the injured arm of Kane, trying to weaken it so he can make sure that it's THAT arm that the chain is attached to! HHH IS SMRT.

HHH keeps pulling Kane's chain. Ha.

STEPHANIE looking FAP worthy in a business suit.

Oh man, that's awesome. HHH grabs a chair, and Kane pulls on the chain and HHH runs into the ring post and the chair bounces off into his face :lmao. Now he's bleeding. BLOOD~! 

BIG DADDY DEADMAN. Yet another GOAT sign candidate in the crowd.

Kane is targetting the open wound on HHH's head :mark:. Fuck attacking a limb, GET THE CUT~!

:lmao at the facebuster. HHH just collapses and Kane is bent over too far to make it look like there was any impact.

CHAIN TO THE PENIS. Stephanie does not like that.

 poor Stephanie is crying. I'LL COMFORT YOU. WITH MY PENIS.

Austin! Steel chair to HHH by mistake! 1...2...3! New IC Champion!

So this was good. 2 guys beating each other up with a chain. Sounds perverse when I put it like that lol.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*APA Vs Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Factor Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit Vs Edge & Christian - Tag Team Turmoil #1 Contendership Match*

:mark: APA starting this thing. Wish they'd last and win the entire thing. APA Vs Power Trip? I can fap to that!

SATURN THROWING THE APA AROUND. Then he gets a Spinebuster and is eliminated :lmao. APA GO THROUGH!!!

Dudleys Vs APA :mark:. Bradshaw Vs Bubba might be a dream hardcore match for me. Bradshaw was the hardcore champ on Raw in 02 during the brand split, and Bubba was a singles guy on Raw at the time too. Anyone know if they had a match? Because if they did, I'm all over that!!!

Man, I wish this was just a tag match between APA and The Dudley Boys. Give all the time just to them. Would have been epic, because it was such a tremendous little match with the time they got :mark:.

But what matters the most is that The APA go through again! Thanks to the Holly's. D-VON THROUGH A TABLE~! CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL TO BUBBA~!

A NEWLY SHAVEN X-PAC. Assuming he means his... beard? Did X-Pac have a beard? I mean, what else could he be talking ab.... EEWWWWWWW.

Bicycle Kick by Albert to Bradshaw. Dammit I hate 2 on 2 X-Factor tags. I always want Albert in the match instead of Justin "far from it" Credible.

Bah, APA are eliminated . They had a good run though. Deserve a title shot for lasting that long imo. Did they have a tag against the Power Trip on a Raw or SD around this time? They seem like the perfect pairing for HHH and Austin to beat to look more credible and legit going up against the BOD.

Hardy's are in next. Jeff's balls are crushed. I laugh.

"SAAAWAAANTON"

Jeff takes out Albert with a pretty awesome dive over the ropes, but that leaves poor Matty alone with Justin and X-Pac. SUPERKICK. X-Factor keep on rolling. Also, yes, X-Pac did have a beard and now it's gone.

Jericho! And his tag team partner... CHRIS BENOIT!!!

Albert has been the best guy in X-Factor in this match lol. Guy is an absolute GAME CHANGER on the outside. He fucking KILLS Jericho right at the start. Meanwhile the referee just sort of looks over and ignore it all :lmao.

OH SWEET JEBUS. THAT REF BUMP. HOLY SHIT. I'd bet actual money that Jericho legitimately DECKED the referee with that flying forearm.

Albert continues to make a difference on the outside, jumping Benoit the moment the ref is out. DOUBLE SUPERKICK TO JERICHO! New referee! ONLY A 2 COUNT!

Double suplex to Albert! Double suplex to Credible ONTO Albert! That takes care of the big man. Crossface to Credible, Walls to X-Pac and a double tap out! Man that was a blast. Now it's the final team, E&C!!! :mark:

"FIGHT IT FIGHT IT FIGHT IT! COME ON, FIGHT IT!" Benoit being awesome on the apron.

Kinda wish Power Trip could have gone on longer. And HHH didn't tear his quad too obviously. But I would have liked E&C to win this match by cheating or something and getting a shot for the belts. Could have turned them babyface to do it too. Bet that would have been super fun. Not have them win the belts obviously, but would have prolonged the tag run and given other teams the chance to work what could have been some super tag matches. Power Trip Vs E&C, APA, Dudleys, Hardys, BOD, Jericho & Benoit... hell even X-Factor. Could have made for some great TV matches, then maybe save the Jericho & Benoit match for PPV. KOTR might not have had such a terrible main event otherwise. Well unless Benoit's neck still broke .

Man, this tag match here is going awesomely. Always did love E&C together. They worked really well with just about everyone, but then you have someone like BENOIT for them to go against? Fucks yeah. Jericho too I guess. He was good in all this for sure, even if he's been iffy from time to time in his career .

Conchairto fails, and Benoit makes Christian tap! Yey! This whole thing was awesome. Not a single pairing failed to be anything less than good. THAT is fucking impressive for a tag team turmoil match. I liked this a TON.

Also, just checked the time of the match on Wiki. 32 minutes? Fuck, that's awesome. Didn't feel anywhere near that long either. :mark:

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Steve Austin Vs The Undertaker - WWF Championship No Holds Barred Match*

Loved the build up for this match. The SD episode where Undertaker attacks Austin at ringside with the chain then throws him through a window then attacks him in the ambulance is :mark:.

Speaking of :mark:... VINCE ON COMMENTARY!!! Vince, Heyman and JR!!! Heyman sucking up to Vince and JR being JR. GOLD.

Undertaker fucking MAULS Austin for like the first 5 minutes. Austin gets NOTHING in. :lmao at the one spot where Austin is against the guardrail and Undertaker is waiting to punch him... and waiting... and waiting... and waiting :lmao. Austin takes about 30 seconds to finally turn around and walk into the punch :lmao.

Sweet jebus, this is pretty much a fucking SQUASH match for the first 10 minutes :lmao. Undertaker is caving in Austin's face with some AWESOME punches.

:lmao at Undertaker stalking Vince who runs away, while Heyman is screaming "HIDE BEHIND JR, VINCE! HIDE BEHIND JR!".

That distraction unfortunately causes the Dead Man to lose control of the match, and the WWF Champion can finally get some offence in!

Leg work from Austin is pretty good here. He does kinda sit in a leg hold, but the crowd are hot for the match still and Undertaker is always trying something to escape so it doesn't get dull.

"HEY HEY HEY, THE SPANISH GUYS ARE OVER THERE! THAT'S MY MONITOR!" :lmao at Heyman while Undertaker is taking apart the announce table. CHOKESLAM THROUGH THE TABLE!!!

MONITOR TO THE FACE OF UNDERTAKER. Big Daddy Deadman is BLEEDING. Austin attacks the cut :mark:. Wish he'd give it a chop though. That would take this into GOAT territory.

Austin looking like a fucking psycho while choking Undertaker on the ropes then flipping off the referee is awesome. God I loved his heel run lol. Shame Austin didn't think highly of it because fuck he was great during this time, and he DID get the crowd to boo the shit out of him 99% of the time. I honestly don't get how it was in any way a failure.

Oh man, that false finish the the Stunner and the flipping off and the DEFIANCE is epic. Hell, everything from that point makes for a super finishing stretch. HHH, Vince, steel chairs, sledgehammer... overkill? Maybe a tad. Awesome? Fuck yeah. Big chaotic finish to a big chaotic match. Worked perfectly for me. Loved this entire thing.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 15*​


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Armageddon 2004*
_“The End Wasn’t Near Enough”_

*Tag Team Championship: Rob Van Dam and Rey Mysterio © vs. Kenzo Suzuki and Rene Dupree*

RVD and Rey cheated to win the titles three days ago so Rene and Kenzo get a rematch. RVD and Rey were a pretty awesome team. Kenzo and Rene’s mashup :mark: but Kenzo still sucks.

RVD and Rey’s leg drop is also awesome and Rey is FLYING all over the place and Kenzo actually looks decent. LOUD USA chant cause fuck you, Frenchy. Dupree and Rey’s interaction is really good. Did they ever have a single match? Seriously, RVD and Rey are flying all over the place. MONKEY FLIP-DROPKICK COMBO. :mark: Rey is the face in trouble but for some reason Torrie (still hot) chases away Hiroko from ringside. 

Rey’s selling in this top notch, he’s been great at getting a beat down. There are some awesome false tag spots in this match. Crowd’s pretty into this match
:lmao “Rey’s fighting for his career here” Even Tazz thinks Cole’s an idiot for saying that. Cole then re-iterates “Rey’s tag team title career” which makes less sense. 

DOUBLE FRENCH TICKLER :mark: :lmao. Rey reverses Rene and whips his ass into the steel post. HOT TAG. RVD and Rey’s double teams are making this match.
:lmao Kenzo NO-sells the double 619 and awkwardly just kneels over. RVD 5-Stars Dupree and retain the titles.

****3/4 – A really good opener. I don't remember liking it this much when I was little. RVD and Rey worked great as a team, and Dupree and…even Kenzo looked good. Crowd liked this match, and so did I. Maybe Armageddon wasn’t so bad after all.*

:lmao Daniel Puder’s promo about this boxing match is AWFUL. He’s going to kick Mike’s ass and sound like a 12 year old boy doing it. “I create referee stoppage” :lmao that doesn’t make sense. 

*Kurt Angle Medal “Impromptu” Invitational*

Kurt Angle comes out with security guards and Cole just can’t process why he’s out here. Kurt Angle invites Santa Claus to a match.

“The last I checked Santa’s from the South Pole, right? Well, I guess Santa’s a hometown hero anywhere.” -Cole’s in rare form. Kurt goes on a Twitter rant about Santa and immediately tore into Claus and finished him off in near record time with an Angle Slam and an Ankle-Lock.

:lmao funny thing is that’s Kurt’s first PPV victory in TWO months and it’s against Santa. Cole’s pissed and Taz is laughing his ass off despite being called an elf earlier.

*Can’t even rate it.*

Miz cuts his Dixie Dogfight promo and sounds like a douche-y Forrest Gump. Says a whole a lot of nothing. Don’t worry he’ll be WWE Champion in 6 years.

*Dixie Dogfight: Daniel Puder vs. The Miz*

The Tough Enough 3 Cast: Miz, Ryback, Mitch from Spirit Squad, Puder, some random black guy, some dorks named Rodinhimer and Narocki. 
Puder’s catchphrase is “I got three words for you SNAP. CRACKLE. POP.” :lmao. WHAT A DORK. They cut out Puder choking out Angle and the elimination music they are playing during this vignette. :lmao :lmao. 

There will be 3, 1-minute rounds. Al Snow joins us for commentary. Al’s money is on Puder. T’Lo is here for noooooo reason. Teddy says this is a must see event…I will be the judge of that, Teddy. Fans are starting to get bored now. :lmao Teddy Long says “O-HIYA” instead of Ohio.

Round #1 – SHIT. They have headgear. They throw nothing but wild punches BUT Puder throws a stiff ass right that hits Miz harder than Show hit Miz this Monday. They punch and MISS a lot to end Round 1. Tazz brings up Brawl for All. :mark:

Round #2: UGH. This sucks. Now they are slower...and jabbing. Puder with a rabbit punch and THEN another stiff shot BUT this still sucks and the crowd hates it because there’s no *cue Bart Gunn video*

Round #3: Miz misses 8 punches in a row. Puder actually hits him a couple of times and NO ONE GETS BART GUNN’D. This ends as a draw, crowd is PISSED. Fans reluctantly pick Puder, Miz should’ve won technically.

*DUD. No one gets Bart Gunn’d and the jackass who lost became a WWE Champion and main evented a Wrestlemania. *

Eddie and Book talk strategy for the Fatal-Four-Way and talk about taking out Taker first. :lmao “El Hombre Muerto” God, I love Eddie. Taker appears outta nowhere and Eddie and Booker freeze up and blame each other. This is actually amusing. :lmao Eddie’s facial reaction are great at moments like these. That’s how you do a segment with people we care about.

*The Bashams vs. Charlie Haas and Hardcore Holly*

This is a bonus match according to Cole…since when the fuck did a bonus match include the Bashams? The crowd doesn’t give a fuck about either team. Apparently, Haas is pissed that he has to be on this show one more time to be a ref so he gets all up in the Bashams’ face. 

:lmao crowd COMPLETELY no-sells Hardcore’s offense. The silence in the arena is deafening.

“emotionally charged Charlie Haas” said by Cole 400 times this match. Apparently, Haas’ real-life fiancée and Dawn Marie, the token roster whore has eyes for Haas. So she basically wants to fuck her way to midcard. 

:lmao fans are too bored to start a full blown boring chant. Michael Cole also drinks his coffee black, in case you cared to know! Holly gets the hot tag but NO ONE cares. 

Haas got knocked to the floor, prompting Dawn Marie to come out and check on his condition. This led to an appearance from Miss Jackie and a near-cat fight between the two. While Charlie tried to restrain both women, Hardcore got rolled up and pinned.
:lmao Hardcore is SO PISSED about losing this pointless match that he berates Haas for it. At least someone cares.

*1/2* - Some fucking bonus match. BORING. Harcore should've been fired for potato'ing Dupree but instead gets a PPV check? Please.*

THAT RR’ 2005 West Side commercial, still the best WWE Pay-Per-View commercial. Chris Benoit has a fucking Ascot on :lmao :lmao. 

*United States Championship/Street Fight: John Cena vs. Jesus (not Christ) w/Carlito.*

:lmao I almost forgot about this storyline. Cena gets stabbed, Carlito’s bodyguard who looks like Aaron Hernandez is held responsible. 
Cena comes out to a HUGE POP…and he debuts that god awful looking turntable United States title. Cole thinks it’s the coolest thing ever. Dork.
Carlito spits an apple at Cena, and Cena responds by whoopin’ Jesus ass. Jesus got ONE kendo stick shot in. ONE. Cena chases away Carlito and continue to beat Jesus up. 

First Santa, then Jesus. Rough night for mythical archetypes tonight. :lmao This match couldn’t be any more one sided. Jesus landed legit 1 offensive move the whole match. SQUASHED. Jesus is BLEEDING.

Cena casually fights off the interference of Carlito, and they make it back into the ring. Cole accuses Carlito of “scooting around like a scaredy cat”. WOO. What harsh words, Cole.
Cena uses a road sign on Jesus, pumps up the shoes, and finishes with the F-U. After the match, decks Carlito with his chain. :lmao Jesus’ first and ONLY WWE match.

* *1/2- :lmao Cena destroys Jesus for a solid 5-6 minutes. Jesus gets literally NO offense, and really shouldn’t someone named Jesus get at least ONE comeback? *

*Miss Jackie vs. Dawn Marie *
*Special Guest Referee: Charlie Haas*
:lmao :lmao According to Cole this match is months in the making. 2004 Smackdown, Ladies and Gentleman. I’m sorry, I don’t find Dawn Marie attractive at all. Jackie, on the other hand :mark

Dawn slaps Jackie to start and they slug it out. Dawn chokes her in the corner and Jackie takes her down, leading to the “ref gets steamrolled” spot from every woman’s comedy match since their invention. :lmao there’s a Haas=PIMP sign in the front row.

Dawn Marie rolls her up and grabs ALL THE TIGHTS and wins. :lmao A match that’s months in the making is over in 2 minutes. Haas admits that he’s having an affair w/Dawn, and the engagement is off, and making love to her is like making love to a dead wet fish :lmao 

(I’m here for you Jackie.) :yum:

Oh, and Dawn Marie is a “hot” slut, so they’re both dumped. :lmao :lmao

*DUD- Shelton Benjamin is the Intercontinental Champion at this point, while Charlie Haas is special guest refereeing a divas match and teaming with Hardcore. Super Jannetty status.*

* The Big Show vs. Kurt Angle, Mark Jindrak and “I Had Peas B’Fo”.*
Mark Jindrak is Cocky Heel #4503 and Luther Reigns is still one bland and boring worker. Show kicked the lackeys ass, Angle came in got some offense, Show would kick more ass.

"Team Angle" triple-teamed Show" until he made the big comeback, flattening everyone in sight. Jindrak took the release pancake/power-bomb, while Angle hit the Angle Slam and applied the Ankle-Lock, only for the giant to escape. In the end, Show hit Jindrak with the F5 to get the win

***- Show was pretty dominant here and he did a post-Lesnar era F-5. I marked out for it like I did when I was 11.*

Funaki in the back with an interview. HIMSELF! This is gold, he keeps going back and forth and says “good question Funaki.” “Thank you Funaki.” :lmao Spike thinks this is a joke.
Funkai says knock knock. Spike: Who’s there? Funaki: Armageddon. Spike: Armageddon who? Funaki:Armageddon you’re TITLE TONIGHT! :lmao

*Cruiserweight Championship: Spike © vs. Funaki *

Funaki won a battle royal and Spike is holding the CW title…so the question is “Who was injured in the Cruiserweight Championship?” Oh, Kidman, Noble and London were wasting away on Velocity. Make sense. Funaki’s a worthy contender. 1 win in 8 years. Crowd’s pretty fucking dead this point but there’s alright action it’s just…how do you take Funaki seriously?

Spike takes control and man, you can hear intimate conversations because the everyone in the crowd took a piss break. Funaki lands hard on the outside, still no fucks
Funaki went for a swinging DDT, but Spike countered it into the Dudley Dog. However Funaki countered that into a roll up to become the new Cruiserweight Champion.
FUNAKI WINS! FUNAKI WINS! HIS 8-YEAR ODDESSY TO BECOME CRUISERWEIGHT CHAMPION IS HERE TONIGHT! FUNAKI WINS BY GAWD! 

:lmao Tazz’s reaction “No way."

***- Crowd was pretty much dead, a sloppy match that picked up toward the end but are we seriously supposed to take Funaki seriously? Dude, won like 2 matches in a 10 year career. :lmao pays to be buddies with HBK and Austin.*

The Cabinet" bid their "farewells" to "JBL" ("the Cabinet" is an appropriate name, considering the wooden acting skills that Amy Webber and The Basham’s possess). JBL leaves, and the “original Darren Young” Orlando Jordan gives him a long bro hug (no-****). JBL looks like he’s just been fired from MSNBC.

Line of the night comes from Cole: “RAW is going to have to try really hard to top what Smackdown has put on tonight." Yeah, because putting on more than one decent match is a really tall order. :bs:

*Fatal Four Way WWE Championship: JBL © vs. Booker T vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. The UNDERTAKAH*

JBL cuddles the belt during the announcements and has some great facial expressions. He kisses it before giving it up. :lmao JBL wisely exits the ring to start, leaving Taker to attack Booker and boot him down. JBL gets two, although the ref somehow misses it for like 10 seconds. :lmao :lmao

Eddie Guerrero was fucking golden in this match, :mark at his interactions with Taker. WHY DID THEY NEVER HAVE A ONE ON ONE MATCH. I get a little pissed with the Deadman’s character and the fact he no-sells Eddie’s offense. Sure, no-sell a belt shot and two frog splashes, why not? God forbid he ever shows weakness or loses clean. He’s not actually dead.

Eventually, Undertaker was the last man standing and looked set to win the belt with a Tombstone on the champion. But in a right buzz-killer, Heidenreich ran and assaulted him. JBL eventually pins Booker, and the crowd groans because THAT finish SUCKED.

***3/4- The main event was Eddie did the work of four men here (almost literally) and but there was absolutely nothing remarkable enough about the match to make you need to see it, or save this show for that matter.*​
*35/100- That was tortourous. One really good match that you should check out (Rey-RVD/Kenzo/Dupree) because they have wierd but good chemistry together. The Fatal Four is aiight, but if you want to see Eddie vs. Taker it's good. The rest SUCKED. Santa and Jesus get beat down, a jobber wins a title and no one got Bart Gunn'd. Watch at your own risk. *


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

You my dear friend are a weird masochist.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Srdjan99 said:


> You my dear friend are a weird masochist.


*Thank you, thank you. What can I say I've always enjoyed watching awful things and making fun of it in my spare time. 

But sometimes you'll actually find some gems amongst the fuckery such as the RVD/Rey-Dupree/Kenzo match I'm obsessing over.*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Was there a Tag Team Turmoil on every PPV throughout 2000 and 2001? Cause it sure as hell feels like it.  Judgment Day '01 looks like a hell of a show. Was Austin/Taker ever released on any of their sets? Think the chain match is on Kane's set.

-------------------

Don't know if anyone post this yet, but WWE sent out another survey for dvd releases. Top choices include a Best of WCW PPV Matches Collection, a Randy Savage Documentary, a Daniel Bryan documentary, and a Rhodes Family release, among several others.

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-surveys-fans-2014-wwe-dvd-releases/51786/


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Best WCW PPV matches? Randy Savage doc?

YES.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright I'm back from the party...16 hours later :lol. about halfway through the NYR EC match, pretty meh so far. 

Leaving again soon though


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Okay so you wanna talk about disappointing matches, Trips/HBK LMS at Rumble '04. Seriously fuck that match. Felt like 20 minutes of absolutely nothing happening. Just a god awful match, took every bit of me to not give it a DUD. The match selection for TKC is pretty questionable really. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Yeah, that Last Man Standing match sucked ass. Somehow their Hell in a Cell match at Bad Blood 2004 was much worse.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Lord Flvcko said:


> Yeah, that Last Man Standing match sucked ass. Somehow their Hell in a Cell match at Bad Blood 2004 was much worse.


And somehow the 3SOH match was even worse.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HBK/MANKIND IYH is on WWE YT channel :mark: mark: Idk who this new guy who handles the Yt channel but I'm loving it


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Their Summerslam 2002 match was really the only match worth watching between those two.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea wow, Trips and HBK really had some stinkers, didn't they? Some how, after all the matches you just listed, LMS, Hell in a Cell, 3 Stages of Hell, they went on to have an even worse match at Tribute to the Troops. That sets the standard for awfulness, atleast in my mind.

A Randy Savage documentary + matches DEFINITELY gets my vote. Plus a HoF induction at WM30. That will finally make things right in the world. They can have Punk talk in between the matches explaining the story lines going in to each match, and then make a big 2 hour plus documentary about the career and life of the Macho Man. Bring in Hogan, Flair, Steamboat, Bret Hart, etc to talk about him. Done deal. Where can I order?

As good as the Punk documentary was, I want them to wait a BIT longer on a Daniel Bryan Doc, so they can throw about 12-16 top notch matches from his best feuds. He's really only been in the WWE for 3 years, unless ROH gives them content that's not enough time for a quality match selection, they'd essentially have to give us a bunch of matches from 2012-2013. Maybe if they wait until Mania 31 time, he'll have enough big feud matches to make an unbelievable set.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Their Summerslam 2002 match was really the only match worth watching between those two.*


They had an awesome match together on RAW 12/29/03. Might even be on par with their Summerslam 2002 match as far as their best match between the two goes.

I haven't watched their Taboo Tuesday 2004 encounter so I can't comment on that one. Might give it a watch right now. Any thoughts/ratings on this match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think its time for my annual hbk/hhh viewing :lmao raw 03 or ss 02 this time


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I need to watch the Taboo Tuesday match again, but all I remember about it is that somehow HHH and HBK make the act of performing good limbwork look horrible. The match really bored me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rewatched all of* Elimination Chamber 2013*. Ok, I'll admit it wasn't as good as I remembered. Two matches I'll talk about in particular:

I guess I just kept telling myself that the Elimination Chamber match had something going for it OTHER than Mark Henry, but I was blind.  Even Jericho & Bryan couldn't put together a 5 minute singles match worthy of anything. Really nothing all that special happened up until the double superplex spot that led to Henry coming in and destroying everyone. I still don't like how they eliminated Bryan though, just so flat. Everything from there on out was absolutely great though, so the first half of the match is pretty average and the back half is hella enjoyable. The final 3 way between Orton/Jericho/Swagger is AWESOME. *You're welcome Cody.* 

Now onto Punk vs. Rock. Lots of you tend to shit on this match, and I still won't do so. I think they absolutely went the right direction adding the dq/countout stipulation and having Punk pretty much control the whole thing. There were a few slow portions where Punk decided to use a bunch of chinlocks but I think the bulk of the match is pretty well worked and entertaining. Punk spitting in Rock's face is hilarious, although I'm not sure why the ref wouldn't do a thing about it. Poor Dwayne looked like someone just came on his forehead. :lol I still really love the countout spot after the Rock Bottom on the announce table. Some of the false finishes at the end were good but it went to hell after Punk "rolled" onto the other ref's ankle. That was terrible and the belt shot attempt was ridiculously predictable. Still not THAT bad of a match, guys. I know Rock threw far too many punches but it was serviceable. 

Ratings:

Del Rio vs. Show - *** (Show had a match with Jericho on the previous SD that was just as good)
Cesaro vs. Miz - ** 1/2 (match is SO well worked, but man that finish sucks)
Elimination Chamber - *** 1/2 (for HENRY and the Triple Threat portion)
Shield vs. Cena/Ryback/Sheamus - *** 3/4 to **** (can't settle on a rating but it's MOTN for sure and excellent stuff)
Ziggler vs. Kofi - Entertaining
Rock vs. Punk II - ** 3/4 

I'd still have this or Mania as the 3rd best show of the year, probably Mania though because of the strength of Taker/Punk and HHH/Lesnar.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rock/Punk II blew the Rumble match out of the water so hard it's not even funny.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Rock/Punk II blew the Rumble match out of the water so hard it's not even funny.


And it still sucks big time :lmao. That's just how bad their RR match is lol.

Watching KOTR 2001. Not looking forward to this bar like, 1 match. Is Undertaker/DDp considered a match? They have a video package and on screen graphics and shit to hype it... but yeah. Match or no?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Honestly, if Rock/Punk II was cut by ten minutes and did not have the ref rolling his ankle spot, it could actually be considered decent.

Eh, who am I kidding. Glad that Show/ADR is getting praise. Their feud and matches were all good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nope. Just a shitty brawl segment 100% dominated by Taker :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cesaro/miz and shield/super friends was the only thing good with the tag best one of the best shield tags

haven't seen adr/show, but have heard good things. Their 1/13 sd match is GLORIOUS and still a top 10 match this year


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*KOTR '01 had Shane/Angle and the triple threat which were good, and a markout moment for me because of who won KOTR that year. :mark:

On a side note, while I wait for WCW Uncensored '95 to download, I have Superbrawl 2000 to hate watch. *


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

rjsbx1 said:


> *KOTR '01 had Shane/Angle and the triple threat which were good, and a markout moment for me because of who won KOTR that year. :mark:
> 
> On a side note, while I wait for WCW Uncensored '95 to download, I have Superbrawl 2000 to hate watch. *


Forgot to mention Halloween Havoc 92. Horrible PPV in one of the best years ever for wrestling. All three main-event matches were legitimate DUDs along with the opener. Jesse Ventura was hilarious on commentary and the crowd was SMARKY.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Forgot to mention Halloween Havoc 92. Horrible PPV in one of the best years ever for wrestling. All three main-event matches were legitimate DUDs along with the opener. Jesse Ventura was hilarious on commentary and the crowd was SMARKY.


Didn't that have a good Steamboat-Pillman match and a Vader-Nikita match? I haven't seen either one in ages. But I thought I remembered enjoying both of those matches when I went through all of WCW in 1992 about 4 years ago.

You are right about 1992 being one of the best years in wrestling though, Vader, Rude, Hart, Flair, Steamboat, Pillman, etc. we're all at the top notch that year. Rude especially, that might be my favorite year from him.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Didn't that have a good Steamboat-Pillman match and a Vader-Nikita match? I haven't seen either one in ages. But I thought I remembered enjoying both of those matches when I went through all of WCW in 1992 about 4 years ago.


There were two good matches (Steamboat/Pillman and Tag Team Title match), but everything else was weak. The real lolworthy part though was all three main event matches. As if Roberts/Sting Coal Miner's Glove match wasn't bad enough, Chono/Rude was even worse.

There is an argument over men wearing skirts in the Hip-Hop Thread :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There were two good matches (Steamboat/Pillman and Tag Team Title match), but everything else was weak. The real lolworthy part though was all three main event matches. As if Roberts/Sting Coal Miner's Glove match wasn't bad enough, Chono/Rude was even worse.
> 
> There is an argument over men wearing skirts in the Hip-Hop Thread :lol


There is a hip hop thread? Do they actually talk about hip hop or is it just rap? I might have to go find that, if only for the Lolz. Love me some golden age hip hop, de la soul, geto boys, wu-tang, a tribe called quest, krs, etc.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Didn't that have a good Steamboat-Pillman match and a Vader-Nikita match? I haven't seen either one in ages. But I thought I remembered enjoying both of those matches when I went through all of WCW in 1992 about 4 years ago.
> 
> You are right about 1992 being one of the best years in wrestling though, Vader, Rude, Hart, Flair, Steamboat, Pillman, etc. we're all at the top notch that year. Rude especially, that might be my favorite year from him.


*I think a year ago, I began to watch a lot of Rude's WCW work. His Iron Man Match with Steamboat from that year is probably one of my favorites--I could watch it over and over again.

EDIT: Finished Superbrawl 2000, I had to lie down and prevent myself from doing something reckless.*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> There is a hip hop thread? Do they actually talk about hip hop or is it just rap? I might have to go find that, if only for the Lolz. Love me some golden age hip hop, de la soul, geto boys, wu-tang, a tribe called quest, krs, etc.


I'm trying my best to change the discussion to be about some quality underappreciated underground classics, but these dumb imbeciles keep arguing about Kanye West doing his best Mosh/Thrasher impression.

Rude/Steamboat from Beach Blast is by far the GOAT Ironman Match. Can't wait for that Superbrawl 2000 review.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yes, the Rude-Steamboat IronMan truly is the goat IronMan, and one of the best matches ever period. Rudes selling in that match is flawless, probably some of the best selling I've ever seen done in a match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The hip hop thread sucks ass, just stupid arguments and hipster who think their cool because they listen to a rapper only 5 ppl know about


rewatching a bryan/rey 2/13 raw match


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Anyone watched Thy Kingdom Come already? I'm about to.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

SonoShion said:


> Anyone watched Thy Kingdom Come already? I'm about to.


Its decent, but most of the wwe DOC nowadays are, learn about his way to being a wrestler, late 90s, DX, and late run, and then now his office days

They dont really go into the evolution days which I wanted, and spent alot of time on hhh/steph like 20 mins worth


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> The hip hop thread sucks ass, just stupid arguments and hipster who think their cool because they listen to a rapper only 5 ppl know about
> 
> 
> rewatching a bryan/rey 2/13 raw match


*I would've paid anything to see a Bryan vs. in-ring prime Rey Mysterio match series.

Was that also the match :henry1 returns?*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd pay anything to see Bryan vs Eddie or Benoit in their respective peaks. Bryan vs 2002 Rey would be awesome though.

Watching HBK vs Bulldog from KotR 1996. Redskins, have you seen this one? This is the only Davey boy HBk match I hadn't seen, and it's absolutely wonderful. Those two were great in the ring together, Bulldog ruled whenever he got in the ring with HBK, Owen, or Bret.

Edit- Owen on commentary is just :lmao

Vince: "What's Mr. Perfect doing arguing with Jose Lethario? He should be watching the match!"
Owen: "Noooo Jose Lethario is arguing with Mr. Perfect, he needs to leave im' alone!"


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have sir, good match indeed, although I think I prefer ONO 97,

@rjsbx1 yes indeed, it was the raw henry returned, it was also the night Cole literally plugged the wwe app for the punk/y2j raw match 10000000000000000000000x and thats an understatement


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank goodness that Jericho/Punk match was awesome, because the plugging was really annoying. Rey/Bryan was also quite fun, but when the GOAT made his almighty return, I jumped with joy.

HBK/Bulldog from KOTR is really good. Shawn was king in 96. Only one bad match that entire year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I have sir, good match indeed, although I think I prefer ONO 97,
> 
> @rjsbx1 yes indeed, it was the raw henry returned, it was also the night Cole literally plugged the wwe app for the punk/y2j raw match 10000000000000000000000x and thats an understatement




Yea I'm gonna have to give a slight Edge to ONO as the best match they ever had. It was just so much more heated, and for me, 1997 Heel HBK>All from a character standpoint. His ring work in 1996 was out of this world obviously, but his character was soooo much better in 1997, it made me enjoy his matches that much more.

KotR is no slouch though, **** from me, absolutely superb. Michaels carried Davey at times but it didn't matter as both guys really worked hard. Cornette wasn't as involved as I would have hoped on the outside, but Owen's commentary made up for it.

Edit- Funnyfaces1- are you talking about the notorious Beware of Dog match he had with Davey? That's the only bad match of his from 1996 I can think of. Michaels in 1996 in ring wise is only comparable to Flair in 1989. I give the edge to Flair in 1989 as the best year of any wrestler ever, but Michaels 1996 is up there. Rude in 1992, Eddie in 2004 are the others that come to mind. And Daniel Bryan in 2013.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Oh man, two minutes into the Triple H doc and I'm already fpalm 'ing.

But, still looking forward to it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Edit- Funnyfaces1- are you talking about the notorious Beware of Dog match he had with Davey? That's the only bad match of his from 1996 I can think of.


Ummm... WM 12 Iron Man?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> It feels imo, like, the only truly gritty, hard-fought match those two had with each other. No submission overkill, no no-selling bullshit, no senseless spots. But to each his own


IDK, the no selling and nonsense during the ladder match fall was pretty big. I actually liked the first two falls (well the first was like two minutes which I wouldn't have remembered if not reading Cal's stuff), but that last one was torture.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Best of WCW PPV Matches Collection,


I can't imagine them getting this right. They'll probably put two HHH matches on there. 



That Davey/Michaels match is 96 is awful. Iron man goes an hour and isn't anywhere near as boring. Then again I don't get why the iron man is the new 'I hate this this is terrible' match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WCW Best PPV Matches set by WWE:

Terra Ryzing match
Hogan Vs Dungeon of Doom x 2 or 3
Sting Vs Hogan Starrcade because it's the most awesome thing ever and not released enough 8*D.
Hogan Vs Warrior
Nash Vs Goldberg
Flair matches from 1999 only


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watched Wrestling with Shadows today. Pretty good. I so wish they had kept the cameras in the locker room so we could have seen Bret slug Vince and Shane climb his back.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> There is a hip hop thread? Do they actually talk about hip hop or is it just rap? I might have to go find that, if only for the Lolz. Love me some golden age hip hop, de la soul*, geto boys*, wu-tang, a tribe called quest, krs, etc.


You are absolutely awesome!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Ummm... WM 12 Iron Man?



Lmao how could I have forgotten that one? Geeze, yea he had 2 downright stinkers in 1996. Otherwise I can't think of anything that wasn't atleast decent, and he had quite a few I'd rate **** and above. Plus one match that is in my top 5 for favorite matches ever, Mindgames against Mick f'n Foley.

C2D-Gotta love the Geto Boys and Scarface in general. The greatest southern hip hop group ever, and one of the greatest groups period. Uncut dope, self titled, and we can't be stopped stay in steady rotation in my car and on my iPod when I'm at the gym.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Scarface is criminally underappreciated. Dude has three legitimate solo classics under his belt. Truly the Arn Anderson of rap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK PPV 1996 off the top of my head:

RR Match - ****
Vs Owen IYH 6 RITC - ***1/2
Vs Bret Iron Man WM 12 - *1/2
Vs Diesel IYH 7 GFBE - ***1/4
Vs Bulldog IYH BOTD - Don't remember
Vs Bulldog KOTR - ****
w/Sid & Ahmed Vs Owen, Bulldog & Vader - ***3/4
Vs Vader SS - ***1/4
Vs Mankind IYH MG - ****3/4
Vs Sid SS - ***3/4

A couple of overrated matches here and there, one utter shite pile of wank, but overall still a good year for the guy on PPV. How was his TV stuff though? How often did he wrestle on TV?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Scarface is criminally underappreciated. Dude has three legitimate solo classics under his belt. Truly the Arn Anderson of rap.


I'd put him in a top 5 all time list, so I'm not sure if I'd compare him to Arn. Maybe in terms of underappreciated but he ranks much higher in his own occupation than I imagine anyone would put Arn in the wrestling world, no disrespect.

Three classics indeed. Mr. Scarface is Back, The Diary and The Fix <3



Cactus Jack said:


> C2D-Gotta love the Geto Boys and Scarface in general. The greatest southern hip hop group ever, and one of the greatest groups period. Uncut dope, self titled, and we can't be stopped stay in steady rotation in my car and on my iPod when I'm at the gym.


Can't overlook Till Death Do Us Part with BIG MIKE. :mark: Love everything about that album.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

As always funnyfaces love your Clash reviews. 




Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Best WCW PPV matches? Randy Savage doc?
> 
> YES.


This is really happening or this is your wish list? 




ATF said:


> Rock/Punk II blew the Rumble match out of the water so hard it's not even funny.


Agreed. The EC match is not that bad. It's not classic or anything but it's enjoyable. 



Cactus Jack said:


> Watching HBK vs Bulldog from KotR 1996. Redskins, have you seen this one? This is the only Davey boy HBk match I hadn't seen, and it's absolutely wonderful. Those two were great in the ring together, Bulldog ruled whenever he got in the ring with HBK, Owen, or Bret.


Great match and wen is great on commentary. 



Callamus said:


> Ummm... WM 12 Iron Man?


Do you not like the main event of WM 12? :lmao



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Watched Wrestling with Shadows today. Pretty good. I so wish they had kept the cameras in the locker room so we could have seen Bret slug Vince and Shane climb his back.


Fantastic documentary. The part with the fans outside of Summerslam 97 is hilarious. I wonder if that woman ever got her computer graphics degree?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Scarface is criminally underappreciated. Dude has three legitimate solo classics under his belt. Truly the Arn Anderson of rap.


Truer words have never been spoken, the Fix gets my vote as his best album and a top 20 album ever in hip hop. Gotta love the days when Kanye was contributing to classic hip hop albums instead of killing auto-tune with 808's and Heartbreak. Ugh.

Cal- I have Mindgames at ***** and vs Vader at Summerslam ****1/4, but otherwise yea I pretty much agree. He had some good/great matches on Raw, none that I can remember sucking. He had another good match with Mankind, a good one against Davey, A good one with Goldust, one with Yoko that i wasnt a fan of, a good one against Triple H, and a good one vs Owen on Raw that I can think of off the top of my head.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I without hesitation go the full 5 on HBK/Foley Mind Games. 

I actually kind of enjoy 808's and heartbreaks. I think Heartless is a fantastic song. Love the cover William Fitzsimmons (folk singer songwriter) does with it. Check it out if you haven't 

faces and cactus how do you feel about my dark beautiful twisted fantasy? I fucking love it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I without hesitation go the full 5 on HBK/Foley Mind Games.
> 
> I actually kind of enjoy 808's and heartbreaks. I think Heartless is a fantastic song. Love the cover William Fitzsimmons (folk singer songwriter) does with it. Check it out if you haven't
> 
> faces and cactus how do you feel about my dark beautiful twisted fantasy? I fucking love it.


Garbage, as is Yeezus. Both need to fuck off right now. Heartless was the only song I didn't outright hate on 808's, everything else can die except the intro part to "Welcome to Heartbreak".


Watching the Rocky vs Trips Ladder Match at SS98'. I told a friend I wasn't a fan of it after I watched it the first time and he acted like I had just killed his dog. He's insisting its a legitimately GREAT match that's beyond brutal. So I'm giving it the old rewatch to see if it "clicks" for me this time. Seems to have mixed reviews, what are your opinions on it? I know it's pretty popular and was instrumental in both guys careers.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 98 ladder match is like the main event on the same show; shite.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cal...your new nickname is Russian judge....hard to please. 



Cactus Jack said:


> Garbage, as is Yeezus. Both need to fuck off right now. Heartless was the only song I didn't outright hate on 808's, everything else can die except the intro part to "Welcome to Heartbreak".
> 
> 
> Watching the Rocky vs Trips Ladder Match at SS98'. I told a friend I wasn't a fan of it after I watched it the first time and he acted like I had just killed his dog. He's insisting its a legitimately GREAT match that's beyond brutal. So I'm giving it the old rewatch to see if it "clicks" for me this time. Seems to have mixed reviews, what are your opinions on it? I know it's pretty popular and was instrumental in both guys careers.


I hate you now cuz we disagree.....grrrrrr. Kidding. 

I love the songs on mbdtf that samples Bon Iver (HUGE fan of them and all things Justin Vernon)...Monster and Lost in the World.

I actually have not heard Yeezus yet. I don't like too much rap/hip hop.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MBDTF deserves the full five stars. Work of freaking art.

I remember liking Rock/HHH, but if I watch it again, I'm confident that I will hate it.

Thank you MachoMadness. I'm having a blast with that project.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Get that hip hop shit out of here, and take over to the thread with the other knuckheads, not here this is WRASSLIN, 


NWTS is the best album this year :mark:


Shawn is the GOAT YEAR in ring IMO, the man could do no wrong outside of an iron man match

I'll give hbk/foley a watch in a few mins


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> ANYTHING by NKOTB is the best album LIKE EVER :mark:


Fixed it for you. 

You are welcome!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Callamus said:


> SS 98 ladder match is like the main event on the same show; shite.


:trips Rock/Trips is an awesome ladder match.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> MBDTF deserves the full five stars. Work of freaking art.
> 
> I remember liking Rock/HHH, but if I watch it again, I'm confident that I will hate it.
> 
> Thank you MachoMadness. I'm having a blast with that project.



Totally agree. Kanye gets a lot of shit but I think he is super talented. I saw U2 in late 2005 on the Vertigo tour. Amazing show. Kanye opened and the crowd was as loud as they were for U2. That says something about Kanye's live performance. He was hilarious and really into the set. Place went ape shit for gold digger. 

The Rock/HHH ladder match > Austin/Taker the same night. 

I miss Clash of the Champions.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Get that hip hop shit out of here, and take over to the thread with the other knuckheads, not here this is WRASSLIN,
> 
> 
> NWTS is the best album this year :mark:
> ...




Outside of HBK's "Big 3" with Undertaker, Mindgames is my favorite match from him. Watch how he starts off as just a white meat babyface and morphs throughout the match into a rugged, ass kicking, take no shit champ and just slugs it out with Foley. That's Foleys gift to the wrestling world, if you want to have a match with the Micker and you want it to be good, you can't be pussy footing. You need to FIGHT and go all out or he will just whip your ass. What he did for HBK in that match he also did for Trips in 2000, Orton in 2004, and Edge in 2006. He took them up a notch in the threat department. Just by surviving a match with Foley when he's doing everything in his power to decapitate and maim you, you can't help but come out as a world beating ass kicking sum bitch.

Edit- I just caught that, did you really just say an album by Drake is the best album of the year? Shame on you Redskins, shame shame shame.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

pussy footing is a fun expression haha....I just love cats


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rock/HHH ladder match is one of the matches I can honestly word-of-truth say I have never, ever, ever liked. Not once. EVER. NOT, EVEN LYING A LOT....OR A LITTLE, YOU KNOW! Never liked it. Hasn't got a chance.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Rock/HHH ladder match is one of the matches I can honestly word-of-truth say I have never, ever, ever liked. Not once. EVER. NOT, EVEN LYING A LOT....OR A LITTLE, YOU KNOW! Never liked it. Hasn't got a chance.




Before I just rewatched it I would have completely agreed with you. After the viewing I just had, I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy it at all. It was just too physical for me to not take any pleasure in it. *** from me, not amazing or even all that memorable, but it was hard fought and I wasn't bored at any point.

Luckily, the GOAT ladder match is up next on the set I have, Benoit vs Jericho at Royal Rumble 2001. I gave it the full ***** last time I viewed it, lets see if it still holds up. I'm sure it will, I highly doubt any ladder match will ever be able to top it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

disc 2 on the EC set SUCKS, three bad matches, I've only seen two so far, but this last one has Big Daddy V and the Great Khali :lol.

oh wait there's 4 matches on this disc, lets hope the last match is good.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the history of the WWE championship set. Bret v Owen cage match is about to start. Love this match. It's funny in the intro Ross talks about a young Bret winning the title. Uhh he was 35....just sayin.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Edit- I just caught that, did you really just say an album by Drake is the best album of the year? Shame on you Redskins, shame shame shame.


Everything involving Drake is about as enjoyable as waterboarding. Can't stand that motherfucker and probably dislike him even more than Kanye and his irritating "rapping". (enjoy some of Mr. West's beats, though)

To get back on topic: I have yet to see the HHH/Rock ladder match. Snippets of it make it seem like it's a physical fight with the (uniquely yellow) ladder being used frequently to go with the stipulation. Got to have it on my "must watch" list sometime soon although it'll be a while since I'm trying to enjoy GTA V at the moment and have no time for any wrestling.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That FlyLo radio station on GTA V is GOAT.

There was an elimination chamber match with Viscera?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Both the 08 chamber matches as good, EVEN the one with Khali and BDV.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

^^Probably the ECW chamber in 2006. The WOAT.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

*Triple H (c) vs Shawn Michaels for the World Heavyweight title- Taboo Tuesday 2004*​
_Finally got around to watching this. This is the only Trips/Shawn match that I haven't given a viewing to. Shawn Michaels is going into this match with a bad left knee. The match starts and both men get the best of one another, hammering away punches on each other until Triple H targets the left leg. All throughout the match, Triple H works on Shawn's left leg. Shawn's selling is kinda over-dramatic here. His facial expressions while his left leg is being worked on is hilarious. The match gets a little silly with Shawn giving Triple H two Atomic Drops on the bad left knee and Shawn selling the left knee afterwards. In a confusing spot, Triple H sets up Shawn for the Pedigree and shoves the referee out of the way with Shawn giving Triple H a low-blow. Jim Ross says that the referee didn't see the low-blow but the referee's mannerisms suggest otherwise. Shawn starts to gain momentum and sets up for the Sweet Chin Music. Batista comes out and tries to interfere in the match but gets knocked off the apron. Shawn Michaels is successfully able to hit Triple H with a Sweet Chin Music. While the referee's back is turned, Edge from out of nowhere hits Shawn Michaels with a spear. Triple H gets the cover and wins the match, retaining his World Heavyweight title. 

Boring match for the most part. The leg-work was kinda dull but it was logical for Triple H to go after it I guess. Still a terrible match with the leg-work dragging on and on. 

Rating: ★3/4_


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*WCW: Superbrawl 2000*
_"Tank, can you kill me next?"_

Tony Schiavone “How do you get better than this?” Is that a serious question, Tony? :lmao Mean Gene is backstage waiting to interview Kevin Nash. 4 or 5 bimbos walks out and SLAP NUTS and the fucking Harris Brothers walk out. :thud: Jarrett is the acting commissioner and who cares.

FUCK. Mark Madden’s on commentary. They run down the card and holy shit…it looks awful. Featured Attraction Match: Lex Luger vs. Hulk Hogan. In 2000? :lmao. 

*Cruiserweight Title Match:Lash Leroux vs. TAFKA Prince Iaukea w/ Sharmell…or Paisley*

This is a the finals of the Cruiserweight tournament because Oklahoma relinquished the Cruiserweight Title.
The Artist, which is blatant rip off of Prince, has the most boring entrance ever. The Announcers keep calling him Prince Iaukea because they didn’t get the gimmick chance memo. :lmao Miss Booker T is the most talented person out here.

The bell rings…and Paisley kicks Leroux and that won’t be a DQ because WCW. A lot of unimpressive near falls which prompts Schiavone to say “he’s trying to win this thing.” :lmao

:lmao :lmao. Iaukea fucks…no I mean FUCKS UP an Irish whip. :lmao :lmao . Lash at least has the excuse of being green. Sign in crowd “I want my release”. :lmao :lmao Me too. Me too 

During the match, Sharmell/Paisley just stands on the apron like this is a tag match for noooo reason. According to Tenay, this is Leroux’s biggest match of his career” and that’s pretty sad.

Lash misses a frankensteiner because Sharmell held Prince’s hand. Prince hits the only impressive move of the match which is a jumping DDT for the win. NO ONE cares though.

*½ *- Yeah. This going to be a LOOOOOONG pay-per-view.*

They show a private room door which no one knows who is in there… and I don’t think anyone cares who’s in there...except SLAPNUTS.

*WCW Hardcore Title Match: Bam Bam Bigelow © vs. Brian “I’m Friends With Hulk Hogan” Knobbs.*

Apparently, Bam Bam got help from Finlay to win this title from Knobbs. This is shocking because Finlay is Knobbs’ mentor…and oh who gives a fuck? Bam Bam brings in all the weapons. Knobbs theme is a “My Sharona” knockoff :lmao :lmao 

Knobbs has broken hand because Luger broke it…so I like Luger a little more now.

Finlay comes out…and helps Brian Knobbs…THAT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE. OH MY GOD. He leaves, because Hornswoggle was ogling Madusa or something. I don't know makes more sense than what's actually happening. 

They brawl all over the place, but it’s not exciting. Finlay tries to help Knobbs again but Knobbs only needs Hogan’s help to get ahead in the business. BRIAN KNOBBS IS SO BAD AT EVERYTHING. Poor Bama Bam can’t even make this brawl interesting. 

Bam Bam hits his finisher but…doesn’t cover him :lmao :lmao. THAT MAKES EVEN LESS SENSE. Sure enough…he goes to top and Knobbs throws him off the top rope and pins him on the outside.

*DUD- UGH. Brian Knobbs, be lucky you are friends with Hogan.*

*Three Count vs. Norman Smiley*

This is a 3 on 1 Handicap match, that's happening because....oh...there's no reason. They could at least make one up. 

Mark Madden compares Norman Smiley to Jerry Rice...Smiley’s gimmicks is that of a comedic coward, who’s going to wrestle three guys…what? Shane Helms is only one who has sense to target Norman’s “injured” ribs. 

BIG WIGGLE. :lmao :lmao No. Evan comes in and they dance but Smiley dances better and double clothesline. This is a comic relief match, which is actually better than EVERYTHING else.

Norman goes for Norman Conquest, the other two hit the ring. 3 Count is getting some heat. They triple team him and hit all their finishers and than Shannon does a Liontamer and he taps.

**½- This was decent comic relief match ruined by a serious finish. They can’t even do intentional comedy correctly. Shane Helms looked good though…because Shane actually has talent*

Slapnuts orders Don and Ron to check what’s behind the door, and claims this company is screwing him. "Screwed by this company too many times" = getting the biggest push in your entire career . He didn’t even he deserve it. :lmao

*Kiss Demon vs. The Wall*
The crowd didn’t give a shit, so why should I? Wall probably won.

*Pass.*

*Leather Jacket on a Pole: Tank Abbott v. Big Al.*

At this point I got a phone call from the girlfriend and I ignored the match completely. 

I did manage to see Abbott drop and nearly kill Al as Tank went to grab the jacket though. :lmao

Lo and behold, I hear “I could fucking kill you right now” and Tank had a knife to Al’s throat :lmao :lmao. Cameras QUICKLY cut away and Schiavone says they were scissors and he was going to cut Al’s beard…yeah okay: First off, Al doesn’t have a beard. Secondly, it was a knife. :lmao

*DUD, but the post-match theatrics are hysterical. *

I had to end the phone call because I saw the funniest thing on this PPV. Mean Gene is interviewing a fatter Ahmed Johnson (Big T), the former Clearance Mason (whose name is J) and Stevie Ray. :lmao :lmao

*Big T vs. Booker T*

Apparently, Booker had turned his back on the hood so Stevie will turn his back on Booker. During the video package, Clearance Mason is trying to sue Booker for attempted murder from a reverse atomic drop. :lmao 

Booker gets a Big T up for a suplex. Miracles can happen! I thought the overwhelming mass of Big T’s ass would prevent that move from ever happening to him again. 

Big T’s moveset: CLOTHESLINE. Take a breath. CLOTHESLINE. Take a breath. Ahmed is SO painful to watch right now. In the middle of a Booker pin attempt the lights go out! STING? Undertaker defected? THE SHOWS OVER? 

Nope. Some bigger, fatter black dude on the apron just fucking stands there. Booker get distracted and Big T hits some shitty looking powerbomb and wins.

*DUD- Do you even have to ask why?*

*Billy Kidman w/Torrie :yum: vs. Vampiro*

Mark Madden says in a year this match will be for the US title and in 2 years it will be for the world title. :lmao. Hindsight’s a funny thing. 

Vampiro comes out looking like the lost member of The Misfits

Torrie :mark:. This match is guaranteed a star just for her. Some very faced paced action starts the match. Things are looking up! I may have found my gem!
Vampiro tries to powerbomb Kidman, but he isn’t aware of the fact…that you can’t powerbomb Kidman. Vampiro’s selling is :lmao . Vampiro is an idiot because keep trying to powebomb Kidman and is unsuccessful.


Vampiro dropkicks Kidman in the knee and for some reason Torrie gets on the apron (DAT ASS) and then gets knocked off. Kidman then consoles her and totally ignores Vampiro. Vampiro grabs a chair and then Torrie grabs it…and some fan yells “Fuck her up” :lmao 
After a series of near falls, Kidman botches a top tope powerbomb and wins. Tony calls it spectacular…but Tony’s full of shit.

***- Just for effort to be honest, they tried not to stink the joint up. They botched a lot but hey, automatic star for Torrie. *

* Okay, at this point I fast forwarded past the Sicilian Stretcher Match because I’m not watching a David Flair match and the real James Brown and The Cat came out and danced for 15 minutes.*

*Texas Deathmatch: Ric Flair vs. Terry Funk*

Dustin Rhodes is at ringside for this one. Just one huge brawl. The match pretty much goes at a turtle pace but then again, it’s at least 100 years com of age combined in that ring.

FIGURE FOUR LEGLOCK! Funk taps. He must be one of about five guys who have actually TAPPED to that in the 20 years. Funk gets some more pinfalls...even the announcers are lost.

Funk hits a Piledriver outside then hits another one with the protective mats pulled off. Funk tries to get Ric to quit over the microphone and hits him with it. Funk said he wants to break Flair’s neck with the table. Funk piledrives flair through a table in the ring. The match should’ve ended there…but it didn’t. Funk wait like 60 minutes to cover Flair...who kicks out. DUH.

Flair is up and drags Funk backwards and through the table. Now for the 10 count .. Both men fight to get up for the 10 count but Flair manages to get up but he kinda falls before the 10 BUT HE WINS ANYWAY. :lmao 

*** 2/3- MOTN, but that’s not saying much. Decent action good spots but terribly slow, and should’ve ended 5 minutes earlier.*

* Hulk Hogan vs. Lex Luger*

Hogan wants to “snap, crackle, pop” Luger’s neck…and Elizabeth’s body. Didn’t you do that in 80’s and Savage decked you for it. Luger’s on serious roids, but that’s obvious. Jimmy Hart wearing MAYBE the ugliest jacket ever. :lmao 

Formula of this match: Choke, kick, punch, you know the drill. Standard 80s Hogan match only it’s the year 2000 so it's just pathetic. 

Mark Madden: “How does one look like the Total Package?” Steroids. :side:

Luger uses the only wrestling move of the match – a vertical suplex – and that’s too much for Hogan to keep up with, so eventually Hogan hulks up and finishes things with the same stuff he’s been using for 20 years – big boot, legdrop. Game. Set. Match.

*DUD I wish I could go negative stars but they didn’t screw anything up. They just didn’t do anything. *

Afterwards, Hogan starts whipping Luger with his belt, and then Flair comes in and a shitty brawl ensues. Sting makes the save with his trusty Louisville Slugger.

*WCW World title match: Sid Vicious w/half the brain that you do vs. Jeff Jarrett w/Harris Boys vs. Scott Hall w/issues & a toothpick *

Buffer just announced Jarrett as ‘the man with the Stroke’ :lmao Hall comes out to the Wolfpac music, which is a :mark: :mark: 
Hall is the crowd favorite, no surprise there. Sid cleans house but the Harrises interfere. Jarrett takes over with a sleeper on Hall and a ref bump 3 minutes into the match. 

Sid starts taking out everyone, including the Harris Boys, with punches. Hall crotch chops Jarrett once everyone is back in the ring, Harris Boys crotch Sid around the ring post…and seriously one of the 1000 refs out here should eject them.

Jarrett now has the WCW Title Belt and cracks Sid over the head with it. There’s FAR too much going on here and not in a good way. SIX DIFFERENT REFS HAVE COME INTO THIS MATCH. :thud Slick Johnson feigning a hurt shoulder :lmao 

JJ has the guitar and EL KABONG to Hall. Hey it’s Roddy Piper in a referee shirt! Slick goes to count the 3 but Piper stops Slick and pokes JJ in the eyes. JJ turns round and into a big Chokeslam from Sid. Sid then turns his attention to Hall, Powerbomb for the win.

**¾ - That was overbooked like a motherfucker. Jeff Jarrett isn’t a main event guy. They had 4-5 ref bumps, a shitload of run-ins in 8 minutes. Piper was the guy behind the door. Fans don't care. WCW 2000. What's better than that, Tony?*


*20/100- This sucked. It’s fun to watch in a “Oh, Christ what’s going to happen next, kind of way.” DUD on DUDS on DUDS. Can it get worse? I’ll find out when I watch and review Uncensored 2000. Dun dun dun.*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lord Flvcko said:


> *Triple H (c) vs Shawn Michaels for the World Heavyweight title- Taboo Tuesday 2004*​
> _Finally got around to watching this. This is the only Trips/Shawn match that I haven't given a viewing to. Shawn Michaels is going into this match with a bad left knee. The match starts and both men get the best of one another, hammering away punches on each other until Triple H targets the left leg. All throughout the match, Triple H works on Shawn's left leg. Shawn's selling is kinda over-dramatic here. His facial expressions while his left leg is being worked on is hilarious. The match gets a little silly with Shawn giving Triple H two Atomic Drops on the bad left knee and Shawn selling the left knee afterwards. In a confusing spot, Triple H sets up Shawn for the Pedigree and shoves the referee out of the way with Shawn giving Triple H a low-blow. Jim Ross says that the referee didn't see the low-blow but the referee's mannerisms suggest otherwise. Shawn starts to gain momentum and sets up for the Sweet Chin Music. Batista comes out and tries to interfere in the match but gets knocked off the apron. Shawn Michaels is successfully able to hit Triple H with a Sweet Chin Music. While the referee's back is turned, Edge from out of nowhere hits Shawn Michaels with a spear. Triple H gets the cover and wins the match, retaining his World Heavyweight title.
> 
> Boring match for the most part. The leg-work was kinda dull but it was logical for Triple H to go after it I guess. Still a terrible match with the leg-work dragging on and on.
> ...



Don't know if you realize this, but Shawn's knee was legit FUCKED, he wasn't supposed to wrestle that night but he didn't want to cheat the fans when they voted for him. He was on crutches going up to the gorilla position and had his knee brace so tight he couldn't feel his foot. The match is what it is, but it's incredible that Shawn was able to do it at all given his condition. He went into surgery immediately afterwards.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't care for that TT match with HBK and HHH either. It's decent but nothing more. Outside of SummerSlam and Raw 03, their matches are all unworthy of your time, except maybe the 3SOH for some mindless fun.



funnyfaces1 said:


> That FlyLo radio station on GTA V is GOAT.


That the one with Outkast on it? Can't really tell because I listen almost exclusively to West Coast Classics.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This is better than every other album to come out this year. 










But I'm fully expecting the new Arcade Fire, Pearl Jam and Avett Brothers to rival it though. Some good albums dropping this fall.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Satan’s Prison: the Anthology of the Elimination Chamber DVD review​*
*Disc 2​*
*Match # 1: Kane vs Chris Masters vs Carlito vs Kurt Angle vs John Cena vs Shawn Michaels( New Year’s Revolution 2006)*

We start out with HBK and John Cena which I guess is a small preview of their Mania 23 match. The crowd is shitting in Cena which comes as a surprise as I thought he was over then, guess not. It your standard brawl for a few minutes until Carlito comes out to a huge pop, which is cool. This makes me miss Carlito, because he was fun . Angle and Masters come out at 4 and 5 but Angle is quickly eliminated, its nice to see Masters in a big title match like this, too bad his push never really went anywhere. Kane comes out and only Angle is gone. Masters and Carlito are teaming at this point and they gang up to eliminate Kane relatively briefly, so its down to Masters, Carlito, Cena, and HBK. Masters and Carlito eliminate HBK which is actually pretty shocking, as I thought Masters and Carlito would get out first :lol. Anyways, Cena hulks up and after 1 minutes of just lying around twiddling his fucking thumbs he can do shit now. After a few minutes of brawling Carlito turns on Masters and eliminates him. BUT THEN CENA WINS BY ROLLUP!! AHH!! So that’s it right? NO!!! EDGE IS CASHING IN!!! HE IS NEW WWE CHAMPION!! Pretty bad match TBH, cash in is fun, but besides that its meh. ** ½*

*Match # 2: CM Punk vs RVD vs Bobby Lashley vs Big Show vs hardcore holly vs test( December to Dismember)*

Oh man, this will probably suck shit, just because its December to Dismember. The event was pretty much already a failure, and I heard this match is okay. On paper it looks decent, with only Lashley not really up to par in the ring. RVD and Hardcore Holly start out and everyone is being a dick in their pods, taunting and shit :lol. Punk is out third to a decent pop for early in his career and the action starts to get a little better, but this must be the slowest EC match in WWE history, only good part at this point is hearing Heyman in the background :lol. Okay, I don’t know if I can recap this shit, so I’ll just complain :lol. This is such a clusterfuck, I don’t get what the fuck is going on at all. Its pretty fucking boring though TBH. There are already 2 men eliminated before show and Lashley even get in, the fans chant bullshit, I agree. They then chant where’s our refund, I would be pissed if I paid good money for this shit. Lashley wins, and no one gave a shit because the most two over guys in RVD and Punk we’re eliminated first. Complete shit. *
*Match # 3: MVP vs Big Daddy V vs the Great Khali vs Finlay vs the Undertaker vs Batista( SD EC no way out 2008)*

:lol at Big Daddy V and Khali in this shit, expecting complete garbage at any moment that’s not taker/Batista. This is actually a pretty fun match, after the fuckfest that Big Daddy V and Khali are involved in( thank god their eliminated early) Finlay, MVP, taker, and Batista put on a sick match. Finlay is the MVP of this match IMO, he pulls off a really fun brawl. It comes down to Batista and taker, a rematch from Wrestlemania 23. Anyways, they have a really good fight for like 10-11 minutes and taker wins, FUN MATCH! I think I have It over Summerslam 2003 by a hair. *** ¾*

*Match # 4: HHH vs Umaga vs JBL vs Jeff Hardy vs Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels( RAW EC no way out)
*
This sounds fucking holy on paper, I guarantee it will be good. HBK and Jericho start out, which is a brilliant choice because it was a prelude to their feud which would happen in only a few months. This was a fucking great match, just entertaining from the beginning to the end, my favorite part was that they made Hardy look REALLY good without having him win the match, which was cool. Anyways all 6 of these guys are really good workers and it made for an awesome match. *** ¾*

*CURRENT EC RATINGS

1: NYR 2005: **** 1/2
2: SVS 2002: **** ¼
3: No way Out 2008( RAW): *** 3/4
4: no way out 2008( SD): *** 3/4
5: Summerslam 2003: *** 3/4
6: NYR 2006: ** 1/2
7: December 2 Dismember: *​*


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Austin/HBK at WM 14. Their KotR 97 match blows this away but considering how banged up HBK was it was ok. The crowd popped super hard when Austin hits the stunner. Damn camera man missed HBK's kip up. WTF?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Don't care for that TT match with HBK and HHH either. It's decent but nothing more. Outside of SummerSlam and Raw 03, their matches are all unworthy of your time, except maybe the 3SOH for some mindless fun.
> 
> 
> 
> That the one with Outkast on it? Can't really tell because I listen almost exclusively to West Coast Classics.




Quoted for Mother Fuckin Truth. I haven't touched a station other than West Coast Classics, nothing is tighter than jacking someones Low Rider and blasting "Still D.R.E.". Fuck I love this game, better than San Andreas, which I didn't think was possible. I've been Big Blimpin' these days, too much fun jumping out of the blimp, parachuting, then landing back on top of the blimp and laying waste to people with the rocket launcher/sniper rifle.


Back to WRASSLIN'. I'm feeling some Jericho vs Cena Survivor Series. For any that haven't seen it, I highly reccomend it. It's Cena's come back match in his home town and Jericho is just heelin it up like the champ he is. This, along with Judgement Day against HBK and WM 28 against Punker are my 3 favorite things Jericho has done since he came back in 07'.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any of the songs fit in a lowrider, specially blasting "Ambitionz as a Ridah". Plus Geto Boys is there so the soundtrack couldn't be any more full of win than it already is!

As for Jericho vs Cena, another match I've wanted to see for a while is the one from Armageddon. Survivor Series is excellent but I think SummerSlam is my favorite.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Their Armageddon match is really good. They weren't given much time, but they took advantage of every second. That PPV in general is pretty damn underrated. Three really good title matches, A fun Finlay/Henry match, and the second best Batista/Orton match.

FlyLo radio is the one with the Outkast and Clams Casino track among others. West Coast Classics sure bangs though. Love the MC Eiht inclusion.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Love me some Outkast.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Which would be the best Batista/Orton match? I can think of a solid match on Raw after NYR 2005 for the #1 contender spot. And another lengthy match shortly after Orton left Evolution. These three are the only real quality matches between Big Dave and Randy that I can think of. Judgment Day was alright for the time it got and the cage match was underwhelming.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

All of this hip hop shit isn't gonna matter once Marshall Mathers LP 2 drops. The world's gonna stop.

Time to relive some underappreciated stuff from the Big Red Monster. :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Which would be the best Batista/Orton match? I can think of a solid match on Raw after NYR 2005 for the #1 contender spot. And another lengthy match shortly after Orton left Evolution. These three are the only real quality matches between Big Dave and Randy that I can think of. Judgment Day was alright for the time it got and the cage match was underwhelming.


I was thinking of that lengthy match after Orton left Evolution. I guess I should check out the 2005 match. Sounds a tiny bit appealing.

Eminem hopefully will live up to the MMLP name, but my boy Danny Brown is steady killin' these fools. Shame that we don't have a Danny Brown smiley.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That Kane set is incomplete without Kane's best match, WIth Benoit


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> That Kane set is incomplete without Kane's best match, WIth Khali



Fixed it for you. You spelled Khali wrong. Don't mention it! (Y)


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> That Kane set is incomplete without Kane's best match, WIth Benoit




2nd best for me. Kane/Taker WM 14 is one of the most underrated matches of all time IMO


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Drake is the best in the world right now and its not even close, so all this Hip hop talk can end right now

rewatching hbk/mankind soo fucking good


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Taker/Kane WM14 is totally underrated. There was so much unknown with Kane. The build up was stellar. The actual match looked good as well. Kane still came out looking like a monster despite the loss. 

This Kane was spooky as fuck. Quick get a pic he's only gonna have the title for 23 hours.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kane/Benoit on 6/28/04 was also really good. I will say though that Kane usually gives us a decent performance, but he doesn't have many highs in his career and tons of lows when it comes to in-ring material. Heck, I would say that this past year or so has been his best in terms of match quality. At least ever since he started working with vanilla midgets.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

If anyone has ever deserved to win the Rumble this coming year it's Kaaaaaaaaaaaane (Paul Bearer voice)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Drake is the best in the world right now and its not even close, so all this Hip hop talk can end right now


fpalm

Anywho, I have Kane-Benoit as Kane's best with Kane/Taker WM14 as my #2. Love them both, their match at Mania stole the show for me, Kane ended up looking like an absolute beast. Thats really when I became a fan of his, he was so damn creepy. As much as I love his run when he went berserk after being unmasked, I kinda wish at the same time he had stayed masked all these years and only went unmasked during the final year of his career. Having that mystique early on certainly helped him, he just looked and wrestled like an indestructible monster, who can't root for that?

Does anyone know if Kane ever wrestled Eddie? Even in a tag match of some sort?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Does anyone know if Kane ever wrestled Eddie? Even in a tag match of some sort?


Nope. Never. Just Royal Rumble interactions.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm joking Cactus,

I think Kane best run has been this last year and a half tbh


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I'm joking Cactus,
> 
> I think Kane best run has been this last year and a half tbh


Thank god.

I would agree with that statement, his run with Danielson as Hell No might be the best thing he's done in his entire career. Hell No vs The Shield was one of if not THE greatest parts of late 2012-early 2013. So much fun, so many good matches. I'll put their 6 Man match at TLC 2012 up against any TLC match ever, yes even the much beloved E&C/Dudley's/Hardy's ones at SS/WM. That match is on that level, and to me is one of the greatest debut matches ever.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I found the extras from "Thy Kingdom Come" on YouTube and that prank Triple H played on Chris Jericho with the protein bar is fucking hilarious. :lmao

I need to order this bluray.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> I found the extras from "Thy Kingdom Come" on YouTube and that prank Triple H played on Chris Jericho with the protein bar is fucking hilarious. :lmao
> 
> I need to order this bluray.


Protein bar prank is pretty funny.

Just watched Trips/Steiner from No Way Out. I guess the crowd was ready for Steiner to fuck off since they booed the shit out of him the whole match. When Trips stuck the Pedigree and got the win after Evolution interfered they popped big. Dat Montreal.

Rock/Hogan from the same show though :lmao Rock putting on Hogan's doo rag and whipping him with the belt :lmao Rock doing Hogan's pose en route to the second People's Elbow :lol Match is still shitty though.


----------



## Cobalt (Oct 16, 2012)

*Good WWE DVD's to watch?*

Pretty bored and got nothing to do, just wondering what everyone's opinion is on good WWE released DVDs/documentaries etc to watch?


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

*Re: Good WWE DVD's to watch?*

Not a DVD but I saw a recent Stevie Richards shoot, i'm not a big fan of his but he goes through his career and shares stories about ecw, wcw, wwe and then tna, shoot is about 4 hours long.


----------



## CD Player (May 27, 2013)

*Re: Good WWE DVD's to watch?*

Monday Night War 

Shawn Michaels (with the documentary) 

CM Punk 

Mick Foley: For All Mankind 

Those are great documentaries. I'd wouldn't recommend the Cena one from 2006 or 2007. His career seemed like smooth sailing and wasn't that interesting.


----------



## Cobalt (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Good WWE DVD's to watch?*



CD Player said:


> Monday Night War
> 
> Shawn Michaels (with the documentary)
> 
> ...


Thanks, I've watched the Punk one and absolutely loved it, went into detail about everything.

I'll have a look at the HBK and Mankind one.


----------



## BrendenPlayz (Feb 10, 2012)

*Re: Good WWE DVD's to watch?*

Triple H's Thy Kingdom Come, CM Punk Documentary, Mick Foley Documentary, Edges Documentary to name a few.


----------



## Hamada (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Good WWE DVD's to watch?*

Ric Flair the Definitive Collection, and as a non WWE DVD, check out Forever Hardcore. That's a good one.


----------



## Dib Da GREEK/CREEP/FALSE DETECTIVE (May 12, 2013)

*Re: Good WWE DVD's to watch?*

Bret harts documentries released by the fight network and the WWE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Agreed on Cactus' sentence about Shield/Hell No. That is probably a Top 10, maybe even Top 5 Tag Team feud in WWE history imo.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Remember the team of MVP and Henry? lol.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Punk documentary is just flawless. The Foley one is damn good too. By far 1 and 2 as far as WWE docs go.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rise & Fall of ECW is still my favorite documentary the 'E has produced, but I haven't seen Punk's or Foley's yet. Which is odd because I have Best in the World. 

In regards to Kane's best singles matches, Bad Blood vs. Benoit is #1. He also has a really good LMS match against Edge in January 2011 that I'd honestly put right up there too. I just watched the Mania 14 match against Taker last night and that wouldn't make my top 10 list, tbhayley.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> but I haven't seen Punk's or Foley's yet. Which is odd because I have Best in the World.


Whaaaaaaat? :AJ:bron:smokey:bosh:takerangle2:vince4:cena4

Dude, watch it. I've let non rasslin fans and rasslin fans who hate Punk borrow it and they love it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. I will sometime. There's a few dvds where I haven't actually watched the doc yet (who knows why). Punk & Steamboat are the standouts.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Time to quickly review the best WWE ppv of 2007(which isn't saying much), No Mercy.

Unique way to kick off the show with Vince handing Orton the belt.

Orton vs HHH: ***
Kennedy, Cade and Murdoch vs Hardy, London and Kendrick: **1/2
CM Punk vs Big Daddy V: 1/2*
HHH vs Umaga: **1/2
Finlay vs Rey: **1/4
Candice vs Glamazon: *
Batista vs Khali: **(sorry I liked the Punjabi Prison concept plus it helped to hide Khali's flaws)
HHH vs Orton LMS: ****1/4(their best match by far)

7/10. Pizza eating contest was retarded though.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Jeez, I feel out of the loop too. I haven't seen Punk's doc either.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Who has the better spear?

Roman Reigns
Edge
Rhyno
Goldberg
Christian


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure. I should watch clips of Goldberg, Rhyno and Reigns all hitting spears for the next hour to find out :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goldberg. Dude *killed* bitches with his Spear.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Edge had by far the weakest and that's coming from an huge Edge mark.

Rhyno's Gore >>>> Goldberg >>>Reigns (small sample size to be fair)*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Not sure. I should watch clips of Goldberg, Rhyno and Reigns all hitting spears for the next hour to find out :mark:.


What do you think I've been doing? Lmao, in the last 2 hours I've watched Jericho vs Rhyno, Edge vs Undertaker, Goldberg vs DDP, and the 11-3 Handicap tag from Raw.

Right now, I literally cannot decide. Rhyno might be my sleeper pick, but that Reigns man....and Goldberg can just spear people out of their jocks, check the one he gave Jericho on the entrance ramp :mark:

Then again, when Reigns speared Kane through the wall at TLC :mark: :mark:

This all started because I watched Eddie vs Benoit from Vengeance 03' again and Rhyno just gores the ever loving shit out of Benoit in that one. Got me wondering who is truly the king of the spear.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*GORE. GORE. GORE. Preach, Paul E.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: just watched a bunch of SPEAR videos. Reigns rules. Goldberg rules. Rhyno rules but less than the other too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> :mark: just watched a bunch of SPEAR videos. Reigns rules. Goldberg rules. Rhyno rules but less than the other too.


For me, the best finishing moves will always be the moves that look like they are legit killing people. Fuck an attitude adjustment, a zig zag, or a Sister Abigail's kiss. Give me a well delivered Spear, a Clothesline from hell (maybe my favorite ever), or a WMD punch from Big Show any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

That's why when Daniel Bryan debuted his new running knee finisher, it instantly jumped to the top 5 for current WWE finishers. He nails that thing SOLID. And it fits him absolutely perfectly.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love moves like that too. Give me a stiff kick to the head over some flippy shit off the ropes any day. Regal's Knee Trembler = :mark:.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A shooting star press hurts far more than a spear. Especially if Kidman hits it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I love moves like that too. Give me a stiff kick to the head over some flippy shit off the ropes any day. Regal's Knee Trembler = :mark:.



Absolutely, that's in my top 5 as well. Man can you imagine having to take a move like that if Regal didn't like you?? You're face would just be done. Over. Bye bye any good looks you thought you had.

Speaking of, my friend showed me a match between Eddie Edwards vs Kyle O'Reily at ROH Final Battle 2012. Edwards finishes Riley by just repeatedly kicking him in the head over and over until the ref called the match. Something tells me you might enjoy that as much as I did, if you haven't already seen that :mark:

Edit- funnyfaces, you're probably right. Eddie Guerreros rolling senton over the ropes always looked like it hurt like hell to the guy taking it. He broke RVD's ribs doing it off the ladder in their fantastic match on Raw in 2002. But for efficiencies sake, a regular high splash would hurt as much as a shooting star. The flip is only there for awe factor. Nothing wrong with that, just stating the type of finishers I prefer. That's why I love your guy Mark Henry's finish, the WSS. If he does that full force, you're fucked. Done. Ribs broken, not moving for a LONG time. Perfect finish for him. His work in general pretty much embodies a lot of the things I love about pro wrestling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Any form of splash definitely hurts the guy taking the move, specially if the guy doing it lands on them as it will knock the wind out of them for a good few seconds.

Lesnar's Shooting Star Headbutt is still amazing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Any form of splash definitely hurts the guy taking the move, specially if the guy doing it lands on them as it will knock the wind out of them for a good few seconds.
> 
> Lesnar's Shooting Star Headbutt is still amazing.


You're referring to what he did to Angle at WM19, right? 

Imagine if Angle had landed his moonsault off the top of the cage on Benoit? There is no way he wouldn't have broken a few of Benoits and probably some of his own ribs. Benoit had to move there, I don't know how you take a move like that without just being crushed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, that one. He was exhausted and sweaty, so he under-rotated the move and almost broke his own neck. Still he did it good enough so it looked like a headbutt.

This makes me think, which top rope move is the most dangerous? Elbow drops can be devastating if the elbow connects to any body part. Yet it's harmless if "cheated" by landing your feet on the mat before diving with the upper body part. The diving headbutt is probably the safest for the person laying on the mat but probably the most dangerous for whoever does it because one wrong move and they can get concussed or get similar head injuries.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:angle


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :angle


You win with that first video. Good god. I had never seen that...did Stings appendix or stomach rupture after that? Holy hell.

C2D- You read Brock's book, do you really think Brock was talked into doing that Shooting Star or did he want to do it himself? I can't decide if he was just trying to cop out to missing it (not that he needed to, it's totally understandable why he would miss it. What isn't understandable is how a guy his size can do that move in the first place. Shouldn't be possible) or if he was legit talked into it by WWE. Sounds like something they might do, but then again maybe not because I dunno why they'd want to risk their biggest star at the moment on an unnecessary move like that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's hard to tell. Brock himself hadn't done the move for a while so it's easy to believe him. But as you pointed out, WWE wouldn't risk top stars like that but then again, they do have a thing for "moments" like this so it could be them pressuring Brock into doing the move.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

That Angle video makes me feel like I watched him try to kill Sting. What the hell was he thinking?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at that thread bashing Starbuck. Dude that made it got squashed by Cal.

Can't wait to watch HHH/Kane from Judgment Day as well as some APA action.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching KOTR 01 atm. Just about to start the street fight :mark:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

My first official bash thread. I feel like I've made it now. 

:yes


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck your just a stupid HHH mark, you dont know anything  P.S please dont send them up here :lol

Did you ever watch dolph/adr btw ?


Havent watched any wrestling today so yea


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I regretted that as soon as I typed it lol but since I don't frequent this thread or the board as much as I used to, I won't have to deal with it :vince3. 

I haven't watched it yet unfortunately. I haven't watched anything apart from Raw this week tbh. I'm just not in the mood to go out of my way to watch matches lately. I'm keeping up to date with the weekly stuff and that's about it. It's all I really have time for which sucks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You suck, Starbuck. I should have left that bashing thread open :side:.

Oh boy. Ohhhh boy. Some people are not gonna be happy with me when I post this KOTR 01 ramble. Which will be online once I get done with the main event.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You should have! I wouldn't have closed if I saw it first. My first official bash thread got buried before it even had a chance to begin. You killed its momentum, Cal. Hunter would be very proud of you.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I only did what I thought was best for business.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Touche.

:trips2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The KOTR 01 street fight is literally my least favourite match of all time. Just a ridiculously stupid match and it annoys me that it even exists.


----------



## mk92071 (Aug 17, 2011)

What do you guys think of Owen/Bret Cage match from SS '94?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Are we talking Angle/Shane here? Haven't seen it in years, probably since 2001 tbh.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, that one. Unless there's another street fight from the 2001 KOTR (Cal said 'KOTR 01' and 'street fight', I assume he meant that )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes I meant Angle/Shane lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

mk92071 said:


> What do you guys think of Owen/Bret Cage match from SS '94?


You'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't like that match. Top 3-5 Summerslam match, probably.

And, Angle/Shane rules.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> You'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't like that match. Top 3-5 Summerslam match, probably.


Hi . Cage is terrible.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Hi . Cage is terrible.


:kobe


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Angle/Shane is terrible. That's a double hitter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*King of the Ring 2001*

'TAKER, I'M BEGGING YA... MAKE ME FAMOUS!!!

I don't think I've ever been happier knowing that the main event here is an uneventful triple threat (based on last viewing of course). Why? Because for some reason I had it in my head that this was the KOTR with Undertaker Vs HHH :|.

PPV kicks off with DDP's music playing (how the fuck did he get someone to do that btw lol?) and him running through the crowd into the ring. He wants to let Undertaker know that he has arrived. New drinking game: take a shot every time DDP says "I mean" during this promo.


*Kurt Angle Vs Christian - King of the Ring Semi Final Match*

Holy mother of jebus. THAT THROW by Angle. Gonna gif that bad boy:










Some pretty loud "Let's go Angle" chants. Cheering Angle over Christian? MONSTERS!!!

Well I can't blame em. I was high on Kurt during this time. I still like a bulk of his 2001 work too. Just the Benoit stuff that is EXTREMELY hit and miss lol.

Match is... solid. Nothing more really until the finishing stretch. Angle gets the Ankle Lock on Christian, so Christian literally CRAWLS OVER THE REFEREE to reach the ropes :lmao. Sweet Angle Slam counter into the UNPRETTIER, then SHANE MCMAHON pulls Christian out and allows Angle to win this match and advance to the KOTR Finals! Why? To make sure Angle will have already wrestled 2 matches before their street fight later tonight.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


KURT ANGLE HAS BUTT IMPLANTS. Non PG signs = :mark:.


*Edge Vs Rhyno - King of the Ring Semi Final Match*

I miss Rhyno. I miss Rhyno as hardcore champion. I miss the hardcore title. I miss hardcore matches. This should have been a hardcore title match. Who is the hardcore champion at this time?

Rhyno should have won KOTR. I mean, did it REALLY do anything for Edge? The Invasion Angle pretty much began at this show with Booker T showing up in the main event, so everything was focused there. Then E&C broke up so Edge feuded with Christian. Then he won the IC title and feuded with Regal. All these things could have and probably would have been done regardless of the KOTR victory. Rhyno winning KOTR could have kept him around in a more active role. Plus, the WWF KOTR winner in the Alliance? Could have been something to work off too.

These two go back to when they were first getting into the business and know each other really well, and work really well together too. Some really good stuff from the two. Edge busts out some shit he doesn't usually do and Rhyno looks like a threat to win the KOTR.

SPEAR! GORE! AT THE SAME TIME! HEADBUTT EACH OTHER! Man, we need duelling Spear spots more often. Big Show uses a sort of spear, and Reigns uses a spear. Imagine those two crashing into each other? :mark:

An exposed turnbuckle that Rhyno tried to use ends up being his downfall, and one DDT later sees Edge as the winner. Good stuff. 

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Dudley Boys Vs Spike & Kane - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

Urgh, Dudleys Vs Spike feud. God, Spike sucked so bad. Was he ever good? And yey, Kane is in this match. Which means no IC title match on the card. WHAT A GREAT USE OF KANE.

:lmao at Bubba launching Spike into Kane... only for Kane to catch him and lob him back, where poor Bubba isn't strong enough to stay on his feet.

Spike is at least amusing to see get killed. Bubba powers him around like a little bitch. D-Von... well he does stuff too I'm sure. Tag to Kane. He kills D-Von with a punch. A nasty looking punch though. Really nasty. So nasty it looks like D-Von is out of it lol.

Oh hey, just noticed Teddy is the ref. CLOUD NINE FOR TEDDY LONG.

I swear the ONLY things Spike adds to this match is being lobbed around like a loser. I mean that in a good way, though. 

3-D and Spike loses. Table comes out and Kane puts Bubba through it.

Entertaining enough.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Kurt Angle Vs Edge - King of the Ring Finals Match*

Angle tries to convince Edge to lay down for him so Edge doesn't have to get his BUTT KICKED by Angle, and Angle can rest up for his street fight later. For some reason Edge doesn't go along with it.

OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY OVER THE ROPES!

Edge's ribs or something near there be injured going into this match after Rhyno gave him a good going over in their previous match. So Angle's crazy suplex offence kinda works here and... oh wait, sleeper. GOTTA GET THAT SLEEPER HOLD IN. Ok, that works too given Edge's "injury" but still. YAWNATHON.

Pretty awesome sequence going from an Angle Slam attempt into a DDT attempt into an Ankle Lock attempt into a pin.

CHRISTIAN! He's here to help Edge, but it doesn't work so he just goes back up the ramp lol.

REF BUMP~! ANKLE LOCK~! TAP OUT~! Angle is technically a two time KOTR winner. But of course the ref never saw it. SHANE~! SPEAR~! DDT~! EDGE IS THE KING OF THE RING.

This was decent. Just found myself with bugger all to write about lol. Was standard stuff for the most part, but easy to sit through.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Jeff Hardy Vs X-Pac - WWF Light Heavyweight Championship Match*

Remember when Jeff was the LH champ? Me either.

FULLY LOADED advertised as the next PPV. LIES!

FLIPS! SPINS! JUMPS!

You know that spot where Jeff runs on the barricade and dives onto his opponent? Kinda seems pointless if he has to stop for balance before he jumps :lmao.

:lmao X-Pac grabbing the ropes during an abdominal stretch. He starts bumping and grinding for added leverage and Jeff is screaming like a bitch and it just looks like RAPE to me.

Jeff gets his own back for the RAPE by straddling the corner with his nuts in X-Pac's face, then takes off his shirt. So X-Pac hits the X-Factor and gets the win! Bah, Jeff's foot was on the ropes. Match continues.

Sweeeeet counter to avoid the X-Factor a second time.

Swanton, and Jeff wins. Which actually surprised me because I thought X-Pac was winning lol. This was... fun. That is all.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The Undertaker Vs DDP*

Don't care if this is technically a match or not. It was a heavily built FIGHT for the PPV so I'm treating it as such.

Undertaker has been playing mind games with Page all night, showing footage of DDP in the same way DDP was showing footage of Sara. Eventually when Page snaps Undertaker decides to come out and give him the beating he deserves. Undertaker takes his time coming down to the ring, even stopping to put on his VINTAGE~! MMA style gloves. PAGE GONNA GET GOT!

Page gets his face caved in as you might expect. He gets a low blow in and a couple of punches, then Undertaker gets back in control. SARA shows up to film the whole thing on a handheld camera. She would later get sued by WWE for recording a PPV illegally 8*D.

:lmao the time keeper dies.

STEEL CHAIR TO UNDERTAKER~!

SPEAR TO PAGE OVER THE ANNOUNCE TABLE~!

"THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO BE FAMOUS BITCH. I HOPE YOU LIKE IT"

Huge boot to the face and DDP fucks off. He don't need this crap!

I like this. Undertaker destroys someone. What's NOT to love? 

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Kurt Angle Vs Shane McMahon - Street Fight*

SPEAR! What a way to start this match, especially after all the SPEARS we've seen already tonight and the fact I watched about 15 minutes of SPEAR compilation videos earlier :lmao.

Oh man, Angle just thows Shane around for the first minute. Oh man, then Shane's little comeback is SPECTACULAR. Busts angle open above the eye and in the mouth. Awesome.

Love how Angle uses his overhead belly to belly suplex as a "revenge" move almost here. He hates Shane and wants to fuck him up. SUPLEX~! And it actually works because Angle delivers it wonderfully and Shane really goes the extra mile himself taking it.

SHANE IS BLEEDING TOO.

The amateur wrestling spots are great too. Angle dares Shane to try him, Shane goes for it and gets mauled. Angle lets him try again, so Shane kicks the fuck out of him because he's not THAT stupid.

"Shane leaping right over is, RIGHT INTO KURT ANGLE'S FACE!"

:lmao I think Shane just SPEARED Angle's leg.

:lmao Shane falls over trying to lock in a Sharpshooter. Still looks better than Rocks 8*D.

SHOOTING STAR PRESS ONTO A TRASH CAN. HOLY SHIT. Shane didn't even land on his head. Shane > Lesnar.

Speaking of Shane landing on his head... holy FUCK how did Angle not legit KILL Shane with those suplex attempts? Apparently (according to Angle, so fuck knows if it's true) they put the wrong glass in, so instead of the "easy to break" stuff... it was just actual glass. And much harder to break. So Angle just had to keep throwing Shane anyway :lmao.

But yeah, this whole thing looks spectacular. The first suplex through the glass is amazing, then Angle has to resort to just throwing Shane through the second bit, which cuts both of them to fucking SHREDS. Mega probs to Shane for taking all this shit. And even Angle too because his back and arm are FUCKED UP.

SUPER ANGLE SLAM USING A WOODEN BOARD TO HELP~!

Great finish. Great match. So brutal. Love it. Shane's best match, one of Kurt's best matches. Fuck those cunts who hate this (Yes, you. I remember that you shit on this match you whore!).

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


*Steve Austin Vs Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - WWF Championship Match*

So, if HHH didn't get injured... would this have been a 4 way? A tag with everything on the line like Backlash? Or would just one of them (Benoit hopefully) have gotten a title match with the other (Jericho, duh) going up against HHH?

"Rumours" all night going around that if Benoit or Jericho win the title tonight they are defecting to WCW. You know, WCW. That company that is literally just a logo and a few guys on contracts. No shows or anything. BUT THEY NEED A CHAMPION. LOL.

AUSTIN GETTING KNIFE EDGED TO DEATH~!

Urgh. This is dull. Just a lot of stomping in the corner. Then Jericho gets suplexed out of the ring and disappears for about 10 minutes while Benoit and Austin do... absolutely nothing noteworthy beyond Benoit hitting Austin with a Stunner, and the revelation that Austin can't take his own finisher properly .

Austin tries for a Walls of Jericho on Jericho but Jericho knows how to block it, and fuck, Austin ends up going head first into the mat and you can see he's pissed as he smashes his fist onto the mat. STUPID, STUPID! 

And we're back to dull again.

Benoit brings in a chair. "THIS IS NOT A NO DQ MATCH!". He decks Jericho by accident. Ref doesn't give a shit. LOL.

Austin starts superplexing Jericho from all the corners, but gets stopped by Benoit on the third. Always liked that little spot in Jericho and Austin's singles match at NWO 02.

Austin taps out! To BOTH Benoit and Jericho at the same time. So uhh... both are champions? They did it with the IC title in 2000. Why not the WWF Title in 2001? 

BOOKER T! He attacks Austin and puts him through a table, and injures Austin, something I didn't know about until the Austin doc last year (or the year before? I dunno)! Way to go Booker, not only do you suck but you just injured the top guy in WWF.

Worst. Lionsault. Ever.

MOONSAULT by Jericho. Not often we see that. You know, Lionsault aside which is essentially a moonsault.

BACK SUPERPLEX. BYE BYE BENOIT'S NECK.

Never realised that the suplex that takes Benoit's neck out happens right at the very end of the match. He hits the move, he doesn't move, Austin covers him and that's that.

Bulk of this match is soooo fucking dull. Had its moments no doubt but overall kinda blows. Hard.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11*​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You're a willy and that match is a willy.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I have these 7 DVDs that I can buy but only want to get 3. Which ones should I get?

- Extreme Rules 2012
- Rey Mysterio: The Life of a Masked Man
- Batista: I Walk Alone
- Jeff Hardy: My Life My Rules
- Wrestlemania 26
- Raw: The Beginning - Seasons 1 & 2
- Ricky Steamboat: The Lifestory of the Dragon


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> You'd be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't like that match. Top 3-5 Summerslam match, probably.
> 
> And, Angle/Shane rules.





Callamus said:


> Hi . Cage is terrible.


agreed about the cage match. also love Angle vs Shane.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bret/owen cage is such a chore to watch in full, like Ive never watched it completely, its not bad just blahhh


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Alim said:


> I have these 7 DVDs that I can buy but only want to get 3. Which ones should I get?
> 
> - Rey Mysterio: The Life of a Masked Man
> - Raw: The Beginning - Seasons 1 & 2
> - Ricky Steamboat: The Lifestory of the Dragon


Rey is REY.

HEEL DOINK.

STEAMBOAT.

Cage Match is BLEH, which is crazy considering that earlier that year Bret & Owen put on the greatest match in Wrestlemania history.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Where are all the people who love the cage match? I know you're here somewhere. Just watched it again. Holds up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ I'm here!

(Where the fuck has Cody been?)


Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, that one. He was exhausted and sweaty, so he under-rotated the move and almost broke his own neck. Still he did it good enough so it looked like a headbutt.
> 
> This makes me think, which top rope move is the most dangerous? Elbow drops can be devastating if the elbow connects to any body part. Yet it's harmless if "cheated" by landing your feet on the mat before diving with the upper body part. The diving headbutt is probably the safest for the person laying on the mat but probably the most dangerous for whoever does it because one wrong move and they can get concussed or get similar head injuries.


I think the the Houston/Harlem Hangover is by far the most dangerous, even though I don't think I saw Booker use it too much. If he would've landed just inches to the side he could've crushed HHH's skull in their Mania XIX match. Either way that move is hella dangerous.



mk92071 said:


> What do you guys think of Owen/Bret Cage match from SS '94?


Classic. *****



Alim said:


> I have these 7 DVDs that I can buy but only want to get 3. Which ones should I get?
> 
> *- Extreme Rules 2012*
> *- Rey Mysterio: The Life of a Masked Man*
> ...


I bolded my three choices. ER 2012 is one of the best PPVs of all time, Life of a Masked Man has a lot of fun TV gems on there although the Biggest Little Man is a better overall set, and the RAW Beginning set has TONS of unreleased gems from Doink, Michaels, Luger, Razor, and Bret. Can't go wrong with the Steamboat set either.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey I absolutely love the Owen/Bret Cage match, probably the best cage match in WWE history for my money. Absolutely riveting to watch, keeps you on the edge of your seat. Instead of it being about a hard fought, brutal, bloody struggle like a lot of great cage matches are, this one went in a different direction and was all about the escape. I love that, a bloody brutal battle would not have fit for their respective characters at the time. I still prefer their WM 10 match by a good margin (and no duh, it's one of the best Mania matches of all time) but I do love this one all the same. I'd say after Mania and Whiteplains Ny, this was their 3rd best match.


And Cal I'm 100000% with you on Angle/Shane. Such a glorious thing to watch. Angle was a monster in that one, I'm surprised he didn't cause permanent damage to Shane with those suplexes on the ramp. And him wheeling an unconscious Shane down the ramp on a roady case was just :lmao. Great match, great finish, don't know how you can not enjoy it on some level. It's in the upper pantheon of matches that are just FUN to watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

********ending for Breaking bad, I have a couple of shows that were my childhood so I will always think there are the GOAT shows, but this is top 5 incredible tv show


angle/shane KOTR was fun, but soo stupid


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now Angle/Shane is getting praise? Has this place changed? Hopefully the same will happen to Benoit/Angle. Maybe not the RR match, but at least the Unforgiven match can experience a change in perception :angle


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Watching KOTR 01 atm. Just about to start the street fight :mark:.


Love it. Watched it last night. Shane's SSP attempt was badass. Miss Shane O Mac. 



mk92071 said:


> What do you guys think of Owen/Bret Cage match from SS '94?


Fucking love it. One of my fave WWF/WWE title matches ever. 



Alim said:


> I have these 7 DVDs that I can buy but only want to get 3. Which ones should I get?
> 
> - *Extreme Rules 2012*
> - Rey Mysterio: The Life of a Masked Man
> ...





HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Where are all the people who love the cage match?


I said I loved it don't you listen? :



smitty915 said:


> BREAKING BAD :mark: :mark: :mark:


Shhhhh no spoilers I'm only on season 3!



xdoomsayerx said:


> I have this feeling Todd is gonna survive


Guys!!



smitty915 said:


> I'm gonna fucking cheer if Todd dies



Seriously!!! :ex:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Houston Hangover is a deadly maneuver. Totally forget about it but it's easily the most dangerous since both guys are at risk. 450 LEGDROP.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Now Angle/Shane is getting praise? Has this place changed? *Hopefully the same will happen to Benoit/Angle.* Maybe not the RR match, but at least the Unforgiven match can experience a change in perception :angle


The opposite has happened actually. I remember when I first posted in this thread, Woolcock was the only one who wasn't very positive in regards to Benoit/Angle matches but somewhere along the way, everyone started shitting on their matches non-stop to the point that it's more usual to find negative opinions rather than positive. I'm scared that this place turns out even worse with hating on critically acclaimed matches becoming the norm. 

Angle/Shane is a fun match. I could swear that Yeah was actually positive about it at one point, though. Hell, I think that was what made me actually check out the match. Maybe I just twisted his words around and misunderstood it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now it looks like the hate has caught on to Jericho/HBK. I have a strange feeling that Undertaker/Angle is next.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Wait until people start shitting on HBK/Taker. HIAC, WM 25 and 26.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Now it looks like the hate has caught on to Jericho/HBK. I have a strange feeling that Undertaker/Angle is next.


These days I have a hard time keeping up with what we think is cool and what we think is bullshit.

I'm sure someone will shit on Taker/Angle NWO 2006 soon just to go against the grain. That person is entitled to their opinion even when they are wrong. That match rules. Rematch should have happened at Mania and Angle should have ended the streak. 

That's right bitches! :agree:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

has nothing to do what is cool, I usually am consistent with matches I like or dont, I dont know why someone would be a sheep on a wrestling forum ?

@IWW those are the top 3 match in company history IMO

@ funnyfaces mania 19 is ok, Ive gone done on the ladder, my two favs of that series is GAB and raw 10

@ macho sd 03 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>nwo 06, I NEVER was very high on taker/angle nwo 06 and you can search if you want all my posts, never got MOTY for 06 stuff


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Angle/Taker Smackdown matches in 2002 and 2006 are both near classics in their own regard. 2006 was on its way to probably even surpassing NWO 06, but :henry1 made his presence known. One of the only times that I ever got mad at the king.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Taker/Angle:

NWO 06>SD 03>>SD 06>SD 02>>>>>>>>SVS 00>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FL 00


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

NWO > SD 03 > SD 06 (aka Gingertaker) >>> FL (haven't seen the rest)

As for MIZARK, he should have played nice and waited until the end of the match to attack Taker. Like in the cage match with Batista.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane - Disc One

*Kane vs. Mankind - ** 1/4
_Survivor Series '97

_Kane vs. The Undertaker - ***
_Wrestlemania XIV

_*Inferno Match
*Kane vs. The Undertaker - ** 1/2
_Unforgiven '98

_*WWF Championship - First Blood Match*
Stone Cold Steve Austin (c) vs. Kane - **
_King of the Ring '98

_*WWF Tag Team Championship
*Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett (c) vs. Kane & X-Pac - ** 1/4
_RAW April 5, 1999

_*Steel Cage Match
*Kane vs. X-Pac - ** 1/4
_Armageddon '99

_*Last Man Standing Match
*Kane vs. Chris Jericho - * 3/4
_Armageddon 2000

_*WWF Tag Team Championship Tables Match
*The Dudley Boyz (c) vs. Edge & Christian vs. Kane & The Undertaker - * 1/4
_No Way Out 2001_


- We start off the set with the absolute destruction of Mankind. The whole thing's really just an extended squash as Foley is able to get like 5 moves in but Kane pretty much no sells most of them and kills Mankind about 6 times. Poor guy was thrown off the apron through a table, ran head first and body first into the steel steps, and thrown all the way off the top rope to the floor. That one left a sickening thud. Good match choice to start the set as it established Kane as an indestructible MONSTER. Good job Mick. (Y)

- So some of you guys think the Mania XIV match with Taker is one of Kane's best? Nah bro, no way. Kane's individual performance was great and I loved his control segment, but it was pretty weird when he picked up Undertaker after hitting a chokeslam and decides to apply a 3 minute chinlock. It was fine for Undertaker to have to throw so much at Kane to get the win but man, they really rushed through his comeback and undersold all of those pinning attempts. There was no patience whatsoever from anyone (even the ref), it was just tombstone, immediate cover, and 2 count. Could've came off much better if they'd taken their time in the final minutes and didn't rush Taker's win. Still a good match though.

- The original Inferno match still comes off as a really cool novelty to me. They really never even remotely try to put each other into the fire but the shock factor from the flames rising up and Taker almost flying into them mixed in with the really fun last several minutes makes for a good match imo. No complaints.

- First Blood match with Austin didn't do much for me at all this time around. Standard all around the arena attitude era brawl. Nothing special. Tag match with X-Pac is fun, but again nothing special. Cage match against X-Pac has a fun last few minutes and a really cool ending, but not much else. Crowd is dead for about 80% of it.

- Two terribly woeful choices to close out this disc. I really wanted to like the LMS with Jericho more but JESUS it was so slow. Kane dominated forever and there was an attempted 10 count after like every single move. Annoyed the piss outta me. The finish is just... well I didn't like that either.  Shitty match. Tag Team Tables match is a mess. Just random shit all over the place until Rikishi & Haku (wtf?) interfere, leading to an incredibly flat finish. It took 12 minutes just to put one person through a table, when there's SIX guys??? Gtfo

- This set is NOT off to a good start...​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

What are some of the best unreleased Taker matches? 



redskins25 said:


> you can search if you want all my posts


Eh, too much work. I'm too lazy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> What are some of the best unreleased Taker matches?


The match they just put on Bret's Dungeon Collection (MSG 1/31/92) is really fuckin good. People seem to gush over his Smackdown matches in '07 and '08 against Finlay and Festus as well, but I haven't seen either one.

He has a Steel Cage match against Lesnar that's on dailymotion as well. Believe it was at an MSG house show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Taker also had a really fun Casket Match at a house show against Punk. Our neighborhood Undertaker expert Cal also recommends a match between Undertaker and Mr. Kennedy that happened in Germany.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Love that 92 match. That Bret set is a lot of fun. Good matches with Dynamite, Austin, Flair and Bam Bam as well. 

There are some who seem to cream over anything Taker. Don't get me wrong I like Taker a lot but cmon. Matches with Finlay were fun though. I'm sure we will get 1-2 more Taker sets.

Taker/Punk casket match? Badass. 

I'm very lucky to be an old fuck and remember seeing two Taker/Warrior bodybag matches in 1991 at house shows. Looking back sure they were kind of shitty but at the time they were super fun. When Taker would sit up in the bodybag it creeped me the hell out.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

ER 12, Beginning of Raw: Seasons 1 & 2, The Life of a Masked Man, and WM 26 all purchased for 5 bucks a pop (Y)

I wanted to get the Steamboat set too, but I had already exceeded my limit that I wanted to buy. I only got WM 26 because... it's a Wrestlemania


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Kane/Austin KOTR sucked. Their RAW match sucked too. I gave it a favorable rating a few months ago, but the more I think about it, the more I realize how bad it was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Kane set is fabulous fun. Don't agree with a lot of that. Mostly on how someone couldn't love the debut match vs Mankind.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea your ratings are a bit low for me, I absolutely loved the Mankind match when I watched it again a few days ago, Mick worked his fucking ass off in that one. I've made it through the first 4 matches on the set, still got a ton more left to go.

C2D- I've felt like a complete outcast as one of the few people who enjoy Angle/Benoit matches, I was comparing them to Hollywood action movies like Die Hard and Rambo. Yea they might not make a ton of sense, but with all the explosions and killing and action scenes, they more than keep me entertained. Personally I think people shit on matches a bit too much in general sometimes. There is a lot of stuff out there that is simply fun to watch even if it doesn't have the epic storytelling and character performances of a movie like The Godfather. Doesn't mean they are trash. Finisher fests, sloppy work, rest holds, and terrible pacing are what will kill a match for me, not insane over the top work rate and no selling. I'll always prefer matches that have fabulous character work and impeccable story telling as my favorites, but I still enjoy a lot of other things that don't necessarily reach that high standard.

Watched the Ziggler/Cena Ladder match from TLC2012 last night. That was wonderful, not sure how other people perceived it but I thought Dolph was absolutely spectacular in it, and Cena's strength is just other worldly. Loved the spot where Cena answered the "You can't wrestle!" Chants with a solid 1 minute sequence of chain wrestling including a monkey flip. The Hurricanrana Cena did in the end didn't look great, but it was kinda sweet seeing the big guy bust that move out. ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't seen this posted anywhere:

Might put it up on YT too:

*CM Punk vs Eddie Guerrero (02.03.2002) - IWA: Mid South*

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/indy-...ro-02-03-2002-iwa-mid-south.html#post24516473


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because we're into the millionth "Angle/Benoit: Why dat hate" discussion, my point of view is as simple as the same way I see those matches I see fun Hollywood flicks with explosions, truck races and gory deaths with absolutely zero story contest and good acting - to have blast, and that's it. Let's take for example the Transformers films. The first one (Imo a decent underrated title, 2nd best Michael Bay ever did behind The Rock) did have an ok aspect of storytelling and progression given the source material and all. And the acting, while not good, did its job decently enough. The second on the other hand had ONLY the explosions and visuals as a positive - the acting sucked, the story sucked, everything else sucked. And that's how I feel about Angle/Benoit - they had their hits (WM 17, Judgment Day 2001 and cpnsiderably less so but Unforgiven 2002 too). But then you have stuff like the Royal Rumble and Steel Cage matches. Those didn't even try in telling good stories. They were overkill spotfests, really fun and visually mouthwatering ones at that, but that's all they have - they lack substance, flow, selling, storytelling, sense, character work... you name it. And that's not what I expect out of two wrestlers the caliber of Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. When I think of Angle, I think of the classics he had with Austin, Mysterio or Undertaker, or how amazing of an athlete he is. When I think of Benoit, I (don't think of the tragedy) and think otherwise of his incredible work against anyone. And then I see these matches... talk about a dissapointment.

I hope I clarified my personal views here for good.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Havn't seen this posted anywhere:
> 
> Might put it up on YT too:
> 
> ...


Zep you are the freaking man, I've been looking for that match for AGES, ever since Punk put over Eddie like a million bucks in his documentary "I thought I was good, I mean I really thought I was good. And then I got in the ring with Eddie Guerrero and I was like "Holy Crap am I bad" :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HayleySabin said:


> That Kane set is fabulous fun. Don't agree with a lot of that. Mostly on how someone couldn't love the debut match vs Mankind.





Cactus Jack said:


> Yea your ratings are a bit low for me, I absolutely loved the Mankind match when I watched it again a few days ago, Mick worked his fucking ass off in that one. I've made it through the first 4 matches on the set, still got a ton more left to go.


It's not that I didn't like it, it's more along the lines of not being able to rate it highly cause it's completely one sided. It's still an awesome PPV debut though that makes him look like a total monster.

I like the Mania XIV match, just not as much as others. Probably wouldn't make a top 10-15 Kane matches for me. 

I'll be surprised if you enjoy the LMS with Jericho, Cactus. It's really frustrating.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's not that I didn't like it, it's more along the lines of not being able to rate it highly cause it's completely one sided. It's still an awesome PPV debut though that makes him look like a total monster.
> 
> I like the Mania XIV match, just not as much as others. Probably wouldn't make a top 10-15 Kane matches for me.
> 
> I'll be surprised if you enjoy the LMS with Jericho, Cactus. It's really frustrating.



I didn't enjoy it, at all. Frustrating is a good word for it. And I'm pissed because I know Kane and Jericho had a match I really liked, and I thought this was it. Why did they put this one on the set? It's so dull and goes absolutely nowhere, it's not even intense like a LMS match should be. Very disappointed. Am I just remembering things, or did Jericho and Kane have a really good match together in their series back then? I swear they did I just don't know which one it would be since it's certainly not the LMS match.

I really like mania 14, it's easily top 10 for Kane for me. I DO think Kane's best year in ring wise was this past year + with the Orton series, the Ryder squash, and all the fabulousness that is team Hell No. I'm also a real big fan of Berserk Kane, when his masked was removed. His character performances were all top notch in that run, shame he didn't get a main event run with the title. Oh well. Kane is forever destined to be the under appreciated work horse.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane/Taker is awesome. His best, or maybe second best depending on what day it is, match ever. Benoit BB match is the other. Then Benoit Raw 04. Then Taker SD 08. Then something else to round out the top 5 (singles).

Kane/Jericho LMS is pretty trash. Their SS match is a ton, ton better and should have been included. Actually that might round out his top 5 singles matches.

Watching Unforgiven 2001. It ain't off to a brilliant start. Hoping Edge Vs Christian is at least better than their ladder match on the next PPV.


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

on the topic of CM Punk / Eddie Guerrero here is another fun match involving them AND REY MYSTERIO w/ MASK (triple threat).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/history-years-sports-entertainment-p-11769.html

3 hour documentary on the WWE :mark:. Wonder what the matches/moments will be. Probably a bunch of shite we've seen a billion times.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Here we go then :mark:






Or DL from my Sig


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Callamus said:


> http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/history-years-sports-entertainment-p-11769.html
> 
> 3 hour documentary on the WWE :mark:. Wonder what the matches/moments will be. Probably a bunch of shite we've seen a billion times.



Three hour doc will be sweet! Might have to buy it for that alone. 

I'm sure we will get some repeat matches. It's a "history of WWE" set after all. What are some matches you'd want to see on it that haven't been released yet? I'm hoping for Backlund/Patera Texas Death for sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've love Backlund/Slaughter from 81 (non cage preferable, but I'd settle for the epic cage match anyway lol), or Backlund/Adonis from 82. Something from Backlund that's top notch and unreleased would be awesome. Guy was champ for like 5 years so they have plenty of matches to choose from. So probably the Hogan match again which is one of his weakest matches...

Basically I want as many unreleased matches as we can get + GOOD QUALITY matches too. No fucking shitty Hogan Vs One Man Gang crap or something.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd like a match from the Superstar Billy Graham-Dusty Rhodes best of 3 series. I'd also like the champ vs champ Backlund vs Flair. Maybe a Hogan vs Rick Rude match. Essentially, I hope they take the 5 best unreleased matches from the 80s, 90s, and 00's, then throw in 1 from the 70s and 1 from the 60s......chances of this happening? Aprproximately 3%. Chances I buy this no matter what? 100%. Ugh I hate myself, I'm a complete sucker for documentaries.

And Cal- When did Kane and Jericho have a match at SummerSlam? I know they had the LMS match at Armageddon which sucked, another one at SVS which I think is the one I really liked, and one or 2 on Raw...never knew about a SummerSlam match.

Edit- just read your post and you actually said SS not Summerslam, so maybe you were talking about Survivor Series? If so, come on man get with the lingo, SS=Summerslam, SVS=Survivor Series


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

What about Hogan v Akeem?


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

I hope we get a Buddy Rogers or Antonino Rocca match to be honest. Not enough of the real greats. No more Hogan or Cena shit.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Of course I meant Survivor Series. SS and SS both use SS so feck you. Everyone should know which matches happened when so I don't have to differentiate between them. Kane Vs Jericho SS obviously doesn't mean SummerSlam because we all know they didn't wrestle at SS, but they wrestled at SS. Only gets confusing when someone wrestled someone at both SS and SS.

So Unforgiven has been awful bar 1 match so far. Got 2 matches left I think.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm pretty sure this set will have Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena all over it. It's the history of the wwe guys. Agreed though hoping for a lot of hidden gems. Hoping for a Savage match that isn't released. Maybe vs DiBiase at Wrestlefest 1988.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lemme guess, Jericho/Van Damn was the 1 non-Cal-hated match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ummm... pretty sure UNDERTAKER has a match at Unforgiven :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, that ***** classic vs KroniK :troll


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*That Kronik/BOD match is all the :lmao*


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

I was excited when Kronik showed up. Then they were awful and ruined my excitement.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Luckily they didn't stick around for very long .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But they made "history" the short time they were there


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF Unforgiven 2001*

I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU!!!


*The Hardy Boys Vs The Hurricane & Lance Storm Vs Spike Dudley & The Big Show Vs The Dudley Boys - WWF Tag Team Championship Elimination Match*

:lmao how fucking RANDOM is the team of Hurricane and Storm... WAIT I JUST GOT IT!!! :lmao (totally serious btw, I only JUST got it when I typed that out :lmao ).

Big Show and Jeff Hardy knock the Dudleys off the apron before they can make it into the ring. Show goes out after them while Jeff looks like he's gonna follow... then doesn't. Then the other babyfaces just kinda stand and watch Big Show attack both Dudley Boys on his own .

:lmao Bubba gets in with Spike, and starts to line himself up for a big elbow drop... then just stops, walks over to Spike and STANDS ON HIS HEAD. What a PRICK :mark:.

HURRICANE WITH THE HURRICAPE! OMG HE JUST FLEW!

Spike dives off of Show's shoulders to the outside. Looks impressive. Then BIG SHOW points at the corner and starts to climb!!! Then Bubba cuts him off . 

HURRICANE GONNA CHOKESLAM THE BIG SHOW!!! Or not. Storm gets a chokeslam though, and there go the New Natural Disasters.

Wanna play a game? It's called "guess who the referee is for this FOUR TEAM ELIMINATION TAG MATCH". Answers can be sent on the back of a postcard to 

PO BOX Obvious
Wrestling Answer
Duhville
Who Else But Teddy Long
WWE 123

Spike just got pinned while I wrote that. Nobody cares.

Just found the gif for this ramble:










:lmao at Teddy Long taking a stupid amount of time to go for a cover before he was waiting for Jeff to climb the ropes. Then Jeff breaks up the count with a Swanton to D-Von's LEGS. 

Those DAMN DUDLEYS get the win with a BUBBA BOMB.

Match is alright. Nothing special, nothing bad.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


STEPHANIE (fap fap) is OFFERING HER SERVICES to RVD tonight. She wants to know if she can help in ANY way. He turns her down. The fuck is up with him? He high or something? Actually he probably is...

KURT ANGLE'S MUM. ERIC ANGLE. ANGLE'S FAMILY. LOOK AT HOW MUCH IT LOOKS LIKE I CARE BECAUSE I'M WRITING IN CAPS. WAIT NOT ERIC ANGLE, THIS IS DAVE. DAVE ANGLE. 


*Perrty Saturn Vs Raven*

This match has come about because Raven and Terri killed Moppy. THEY KILLED MOPPY! THOSE BASTARDS!!!

"THE MAN IS FIGHTING OVER THE MEMORY OF A MOP!"

Somewhat decent brawl match thingy. Saturn wins. Moppy is still dead. Who cares?

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Edge Vs Christian - WWF Intercontinental Championship Match*

CHRISTIAN! CHRISTIAN! AT LAST! YOU'RE ON! YOU'RE OWN!!!

Edge is angry. Lots of HATE~! and then Christian makes him look retarded by getting him to charge full steam ahead at him in the corner, only for Christian to move and Edge to smash into the ring post. LOL.

Edge is bleeding and I don't know why. Nothing has happened to warrant blood, so must have happened the hard way by accident. But fuck knows when lol.

Match seems far too back and forth-y to me, but not in a "they are brothers and know each other so well" way. Just a "oh look Edge is in control. And now Christian is in control. Back to Edge" kinda way.

Christian goes for a Conchairto. Edge sweeps out his legs, then goes got it himself, only for the referee to take the chair away. Christian low blows Edge with the other chair, and WINS THE IC CHAMPIONSHIP!

Well this kinda sucked. Can't say I ever thought they had much chemistry as opponents tbh. Never liked this match much, don't think anything to their ladder match (I'll get to that soon), and didn't even think their Raw... 2010(?) match was anything special either.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Undertaker & Kane Vs Kronik - WCW Tag Team Championship Match*

Fuck, thought this match happened at No Mercy. Thought I was gonna be able to avoid it for a little while still .

CRUSH & ADAM BOMB VS UNIBOMB & MEAN MARK CALLOUS.

Weird seeing Undertaker holding the WCW tag belts.

:lmao with the exception of a few punches and kicks (but certainly not all of them...), Kronik seem to fuck up EVERYTHING they do. It all looks terrible. Either fake as shit or botched to hell or both.

This isn't TERRIBLE or "worst match ever" kind of bad, just dull when Kronik are in control, and filled with hilarious botches thanks to Kronik . Undertaker getting legitimately fucked off towards the end is awesome.

Steven Richards stuff after the match is awesome at least.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


STEPHANIE (fap fap fap fap fap) backstage looking for RVD to once again tell him that his experience in the Alliance with be a pleasurable one if he beats Jericho tonight. I like how STEPHANIE asks COACH, a WWF guy, where RVD's locker room is and they both act like the very best of friends .


*RVD Vs Chris Jericho - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

Hardcore title match :mark:.

They do a bunch of mat work early on, all basic stuff but looks good I guess. Doesn't really do anything or mean anything though. I did have to laugh at Jericho having to tell the referee to COUNT at one point. Another reason Jericho hates Tim White...

Jericho smashes RVD's arm into the ring post 3 times in a row, then suplexes him ON A LADDER. 10 seconds later RVD has enough strength in his arm and shit to counter another suplex on the ladder into his own. Good old RVD...

:lmao at Tim White running over when Jericho looks to try for the Walls, just because at the same time RVD's shoulders are down and he doesn't want Jericho to scream at him again .

KICK TO THE FACE. Jericho is busted open. I swear he's the third person so far on this show to bleed around the eye somewhere lol.

:lmao at RVD purposely bending over on top of the ladder so Jericho can throw the chair into his face. WALLS OF JERICHO ON THE LADDER~! The bump RVD takes off the ladder to the outside afterwards looks more impressive tbh. As does Jericho's bump off the ladder into the barricade when RVD moves!

Pfft, RVD, what a pussy. Gets his hands up on a suicide dive when Jericho holds up a chair. Benoit never got his hands up and look how he turned out!

ARMBAR~!

STEPAHNIE FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP. She comes down to help RVD, Jericho nearly decks her with a chair (what a CUNT btw), but she ducks and RVD kicks him in the face. 5 Star Frog Splash and STEPHANIE gets an early birthday present!

This is really good overall. Couple of dodgy bits here and there, but nothing to ruin the match. Glad this held up because I liked it a lot on my last watch.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*The Rock Vs Booker T & Shane McMahon - WCW Championship Match*

Urgh. The Rock. Urgh. Booker T. Yey. Shane McMahon.

RIC FLAIR MENTION. All downhill from here .

Booker and Rock do stuff in the ring and it kinda sucks. Shane keeps attacking Rock on the outside and it kinda rocks. This should have been Shane Vs Rock. Would have been good probably.

:lmao at Rock trying to take a snapmare. :lmao at Booker T having some kind of a fit while setting up a knee drop. Christ these guys SUCK. And they ain't doing nothing to change my opinion in this match lol.

Bah, they set up the Shane elbow off the ropes through a table spot but Rock fucks that up and we don't see it. People's Champion my arse. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT WE WANT. WE WANT TO SEE YOU GO THROUGH A TABLE AND DIE.

Shane decks Booker with the WCW belt by mistake. Then hits Rock. Shane might make mistakes but he sure makes up for it! 

KIP UP BY SHANE~!

TEST~! He fucking decks Rock to break up a People's Elbow attempt (woo) then levels him with a Big Boot. BRADSHAW~! He chases after Test. NICK PATRICK~! The referee actually drags Rock back in the ring :lmao. No bias in this match!

Mike Cheoda (fuck knows how you spell his name) drags Shane off The Rock during a cover! He's a fair and impartial referee! Then he takes out Nick! Then Booker T takes him out! Rock Bottom. Down comes Earl Henber and he counts the 3.

Shane and the referee stuff were literally the best parts of this match. More Shane was needed to make this match good though. Booker stunk up the joint and Rock was his usual shitty self too. He and Booker did not mix well. Shane stops this being THAT bad though. Terrible for a major title match, but a decentish match overall I guess.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


STACY KEIBLER IN THE BATH FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.


*Rhyno Vs Tajiri - WCW United States Championship*

:mark: Totally didn't remember this was on this show!!!

My god Tajiri's kicks are epic.

My god Rhyno's spinebuster is epic.

:lmao at Torrie (fap fap) trying to run in heels, pretty sure she actually hurts herself.

GORE TO TORRIE... STOPPED BY A KICK TO THE FUCKING FACE BY TAJIRI. Now THAT was EPIC.

GORE! GORE! GORE!

This one is over. Rhyno becomes the NEW United States Champion! Second best match of the night so far lol... with one more to go . Tons of fun and some ungodly kicks.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - WWF Championship Match*

Awesome video package for this match. Build up was great. Though Angle needs to take better care of his Medals. He got them stolen TWICE in 2001.

Their SummerSlam match was epic (god I can't wait to watch that again :mark: ). This match is in Angle's hometown. His family are in the front row. This isn't too long after the September 11 attack. Angle is the AMERICAN HERO. I wonder who is gonna win... 

SD just days before, Austin gave Angle a PILEDRIVER ON THE CONCRETE. Angle showed up at the end of the show to say he couldn't be stopped. And he's showing zero effects so far in this match. And you know what? I DON'T GIVE A FUCK. Because the whole angle was just done fantastically and didn't come across as the big babyface no selling shit and being all superman. I know, crazy right? WWE CAN actually book babyfaces strong without them turning into some generic superman character!

Angle is on FIRE early on, just destroying Austin. Then after a superplex we see Angle hold his neck, showing signs that he might not be 100%. And I like that he started showing pain in the neck there because it was the first move that would actually do damage to it.

Man, Angle is ALL OVER Austin for a large portion of the first half of this one. Beating the shit out of Austin. Throwing Austin off the stage, and then a great callback to SS by smashing Austin face first into the ring post a few times. And then he rips up the mat to expose the concrete floor, but Austin knows exactly what's about to happen so he charges at Angle and takes him out. He don't want no Piledriver on the floor! He does however take a back body drop on the floor, then Angle follows up with HEATBUTTS~! Pretty sure Angle busted Austin open the HARD WAY with those.

Angle ends up taking a back body drop on the concrete too and he takes it like a MAN... which makes one SICK fucking sound as his spine cracks on the floor. Now THAT is one hell of a way to transition into Austin's control segment.

Is this NO DQ? No Countout? Because they've been battling outside of the ring for like, 10 minutes now :lmao.

Damn. DDT by Angle and Austin rolls out to the floor... and lands HARD on the concrete. Methinks he might have forgotten about the exposed concrete down there .

STUNNER TO AUSTIN!

PILEDRIVER TO ANGLE! Best Piledriver near fall of the decade... until that ROH (I think) match between... 2 guys I can't remember. SHUT UP IT DOES EXIST. Someone will remind me.

Angle just won't give up though, and after surviving the Piledriver, he counters a Stunner into the Ankle Lock and AUSTIN TAPS OUT! NEW WWF CHAMPION!!!

Great match, yet still doesn't hold a candle to their SS encounter. :mark:

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12*​


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> how fucking RANDOM is the team of Hurricane and Storm... WAIT I JUST GOT IT!!! (totally serious btw, I only JUST got it when I typed that out ).


Wow. I just got this now, too. :|


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Thanks for those Punk, Eddie, & Rey uploads on the previous pages!


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

My mind is absolutely blown at the Hurricane and Storm team.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pretty much agree with all of Cal's Unforgiven '01 review. Austin/Angle is brilliant (****) and comes off even better if you've seen the Summerslam match beforehand, love how they had Angle do some of the same stuff Austin did to him the month before. I didn't really "like" RVD/Jericho as much as others because I thought way too much of it was recycled from other Ladder matches (I know it's not a ladder match btw) but I still gave it *** 1/4. 

Best Edge vs. Christian match is their Ladder match from No Mercy '01, but I think I'm in the minority for that. Their RAW 2010 match is fun but nothing special and far away from being one of the best TV matches of that year, like some others will say.



Callamus said:


> http://www.wwedvd.co.uk/history-years-sports-entertainment-p-11769.html
> 
> 3 hour documentary on the WWE :mark:. Wonder what the matches/moments will be. Probably a bunch of shite we've seen a billion times.


Love that cover and really looking forward to that doc. They can still manage to put some big time matches on there that haven't been released before. Possibly Cena/Michaels from Mania 23, Taker/Batista with Austin as the ref, Austin/Angle from Summerslam, an unreleased Cena/Punk match, maybe some other not-so-highly seen Bret or Flair matches, etc. They'll probably fuck it up though.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm certain they'll fit in one of those classic Chavo/Hornswoggle matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watched HHH/Taka raw 00 from zep's uploads, great fucking match, one of hunters best. Didnt even need all the craziness on the outsides with the APA and co.

Gonna download taku/greats sasuke later


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Of course I meant Survivor Series. SS and SS both use SS so feck you. Everyone should know which matches happened when so I don't have to differentiate between them. Kane Vs Jericho SS obviously doesn't mean SummerSlam because we all know they didn't wrestle at SS, but they wrestled at SS. Only gets confusing when someone wrestled someone at both SS and SS.
> 
> .


Yeeesh, I was one of those dumb kids that think its a good idea to do a ton of drugs in my teenage years, so my memory still sucks even though it's gotten a lot better than it used to be. Thought they might have had another match that was good that I didn't know about.:

Great review of Unforgiven, and thanks for reminding me there is another excellent Austin/Angle match to watch. I just watched SS01' again and was left completely blown away, like tempted to call it a 5 star match blown away. It's just that good. It's my favorite Angle match and tied as my favorite Austin match with Over the Edge against Foley. Look forward to your review when you get to it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

TAKU! :lol

Edge/Christian was such a disappointing feud, and the matches weren't very good on top of that. They had a chance to make amends in 2010 and 2011, but the WWE never pulled the trigger on that feud for whatever reason :adr


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Raw 2010 talk, and no one will still ever mention Bryan/Ziggler after BR. :side:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Thy Kingdom Come - The Story of Triple H (Disc One)

So I'm going to talk about the Triple H documentary now.

This is coming from one of the biggest fucking Triple H marks you will ever hear from so listen closely. This career retrospective on my favorite wrestler of all time was.. OKAY. I GUESS.. Okay here's the thing about the documentary; there was no possible way that it could have lived up to the hype. However, despite giving us a completely overhyped feature like say, Bret Vs Shawn did, this documentary gave us a ton of new information about Triple H before his WWF/WWE career began, and a bunch of new information about his career behind the scenes and easing into the McMahon family throne. If you wanna hear about Paul Levesque; family man, business man, and great all around guy, this documentary is for you. The amount of detail paid to Hunter's breaking into the business as well as his new role in the company is astounding and painted a wonderful picture as to where not only HHH is heading, but where the company is heading as a whole. The "Non wrestling" parts of the documentary were shown extensively (I forgot to mention HHH the ACTOR) such as a five minute piece on The Chaperone, and a 25 minute HHH/Stephanie lovefest that's right smack dab in the middle of the documentary. Some of the stuff is cool I guess, but I doubt nearly a fourth of the documentary needed to be dedicated to a love story that all hardcore HHH fans have heard before a million times. 

The interviewees were all great. HHH gave out a great interview as well as an awesome roster of guys such as Rock, Vince, Stephanie, Batista (LOVING HHH to death), Orton, Michael Hayes, Kevin Nash, Shawn Michaels, & THE FUCKING UNDERTAKER. Yeah, The Undertaker went out of character for a documentary feature, HHH is THAT good for all of you Taker marks out there.

Now, onto the "Triple H - The Wrestler" portion of the documentary, if you love Degeneration-X you'll absolutely LOVE this documentary. Both the original incarnation and the renewed incarnation are talked about in great detail, with some cool stories told particularly about the latter. Now that I know that HHH & HBK were essentially performing a PARODY of the original DX and that was its intended purpose, I can go back to the segments and probably enjoy them more than when I first saw them... Fuck Little People's Court though. Worst of all time RAW segment involving my all time favorite? I think fucking not. Anywhoways back on track here, the original DX got a ton of coverage on another ton of DVDs so I didn't really like placing an emphasis on that. Glad they paid good tribute to the 1997 Foley matches but GOD DAMN they can fuck off for not mentioning the 2000s feud and those beautiful matches, same goes with the Rock & Austin feuds... AND ALL OF 2000 sans Rock Ironman match for that matter. from the point that HHH wins his first world championship, there is nothing until his ironman match with Rock, and after that nothing until the quad tear... That really fucking irked me because that was some of Hunter's work, same with the 2004-2006 period; it's a fucking desolate place where nothing is touched upon. HBK feud isn't mentioned once, despite being the biggest feud in the company for about a year, Benoit isn't mentioned either which still pisses me off but I can understand it nevertheless. Hell, ALL of the Batista & Orton feuds were skipped, and the complete lack of any depth or discussion of these feuds really enraged me. If you want that kind of deep look into HHH's wrestling career, you will not find it in this documentary apart from a few matches such as Vs Rock @ JD, Vs Taker @ Wrestlemania XXVIII (which is a really cool chapter), & Vs Cena Wrestlemania XXII. It's like his time as a face is being emphasized instead of his time as a heel, which should not be the case as Triple H is the greatest heel in company history. 

I really wanted them to place a strong emphasis on the various feuds that HHH has had in his career but they just don't do it for whatever reason, and there's never any real criticism of the guy at all throughout, making everything look a little WWE biased... But in all I enjoyed my watch, as we do get a ton of new information about Hunter's life and who he is like we've never seen before, my big problem was with the depth of the project (depth like Austin's or Punk's, where it seems like every single career feud was covered in detail by the guy).It's going to be a fantastic watch for casual fans I think, and the light HHH is portrayed in is going to see his ALL TIME stock go nothing but up, but it won't be as the dastardly heel we saw from 1999 to 2006, it'll be as the FACE (which is a FALLACY damn you WWE!). Hardcore HHH fans may be a little let down but in the end, we all bow down to our lord and savior HHH anyways since he runs this shit from now on.

Where would I rank this documentary all time? I'd say middle of the pack behind the obvious Punk/Bret/Austin ones, but still in that upper 15/20 range. That tells you just how high my expectations were for this DVD; It's still AWESOME, but I wrote this review like it was the WOAT documentary.

BOW DOWN TO THE KING. THERE IS ONLY ONE.

*7.5 Out of 10*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's not that I didn't like it, it's more along the lines of not being able to rate it highly cause it's completely one sided. It's still an awesome PPV debut though that makes him look like a total monster.
> 
> I like the Mania XIV match, just not as much as others. Probably wouldn't make a top 10-15 Kane matches for me.
> 
> I'll be surprised if you enjoy the LMS with Jericho, Cactus. It's really frustrating.


I'm not opposed to matches being one sided if it works. Which it did in this situation and Foley were the perfect guy to get Kane's destructive work over. 

I liked the Last Man Standing match on the one time I've seen it. I guess I'm alone there. Then again, I seem to be pretty open to "slower paced" matches. For example I loved the triple threat match from KOTR '01 _(don't recall it being slow, but maybe it was? In regards to Cal's review a page or two back)_ & the Bret vs Owen steel cage is a favorite too. Meanwhile, some overblown faster paced matches are a real no-no for me. Too much workrate can zap so much good from a match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Good review man, I'd been waiting to hear a hardcore Trips marks take on it. As much as you love Hunter, I love Foley, so to say I was disappointed at the lock of coverage over their 2000 matches is the understatement of the year. Maybe they thought because Trips gave a 5 minute interview about it on the KoK set I own, they didn't need to go over it again? If so fuck off, that's horrid logic.

While I might STRONGLY disagree with you in terms of Trips position among the all time greats (he might crack my top 30, at best. Maybe top 10-15 for heels) I can still understand that it's all OPINION. it's nice to hear even those most ardent trips fan acknowledge that the DVD covering him as this Mother Theresa type guy just because he doesn't drink and works extremely hard comes across as very biased and takes away from what should have been an all time great documentary. The Steph love fest for 20 minutes irked me as well.

That said I don't consider this a waste of money AT ALL because I finally now own the Rocky Ironman and Orton LMS from NM on Blu Ray, which is nice. Also the stories told as Blu ray extras were an almost 45 minute documentary unto themselves.

All told, good release, should have been SO MUCH more. Especially for a guy who, let's face it, is one of if not the most important performers in the history of the WWE (he dominated the main event and wwe title scene for a solid decade, will be running the company for the next 20+ years).

Edit-just finished the Finlay-Kane Belfast Brawl. To say it was awesome would not do it justice. The moral of the story kids? Finlay + No DQ + Another good brawler= success! each and every time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody is still alive ? good to hear

I think the HHH DVD was pretty from the beginning until right around the DX army chapter, than after that they left SO MUCH off, and the hhh/steph was really not needed, although I didnt know that much about it as opposed to a HHH mark like you I guess

The things that piss me off, was I REALLY wanted a whole chapter about evolution, I eventually wanted them to go into more of his relationship with Flair, as flair kisses his ass every second he gets when taking about wwe. I wanted that and I you reminded me, not a single mention of the hbk feud at all ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Finlay Belfast Brawl. 

IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT.

Really. Match is just, oof. Radical.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finlay vs. JBL Belfast Brawl is awesome too. The trash can lid shot to the head :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Some ratings, too lazy for write ups

hbk/mankind ****1/2
hhh/taka raw ****1/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We all need a Finlay set already. Make it WWE. Let it be the precursor for the eventual Sheamus set. Those wonderful Celtic workers.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I just got finished with the HHH doc. It was really good, as most docs are nowadays. That being said... fuck 'em for spending all that time on HHH/Stephanie and not going more deeply into Evolution and some of Foley/HHH from 2000.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HayleySabin said:


> Kane vs Finlay Belfast Brawl.
> 
> *IT DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER THAN THAT.
> *
> Really. Match is just, oof. Radical.







Beat that. :durant


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I would be all over a fucking Finlay set. Good lord. They could just put shit from 2008 on their and it would still be better than 90% of the sets out there. If they went all the way back and dug some gems out of WCW too? I'd freak. I just want to own Uncensored vs Regal on Blu Ray, the version I own is such poor quality it's hard to watch. 

Damn you for getting me all hyped about a set they will NEVER make . Is Finlay the most under appreciated worker of all time by the general wrestling public(not in here of course, we have taste. Well most of us do)?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finlay was born about an hour away from where I live. Deal with that Finlay marks. Also, Liam Neeson was born about 20 minutes away from where I live. Deal with that.....Liam...Neeson..marks...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I would be all over a fucking Finlay set. * Good lord.* They could just put shit from 2008 on their and it would still be better than 90% of the sets out there. If they went all the way back and dug some gems out of WCW too? I'd freak. I just want to own Uncensored vs Regal on Blu Ray, the version I own is such poor quality it's hard to watch.
> 
> Damn you for getting me all hyped about a set they will NEVER make . Is Finlay the most under appreciated worker of all time by the general wrestling public(not in here of course, we have taste. Well most of us do)?


Hey thats my word :flair 

Finlay is the man


Why am I just finding out about the Bret dungeon DVD :lmao, pretty good match list, hated that perfect match which is a shame


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Finlay vs Chris Benoit from Judgement Day 2006 4 star match imo love that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Finlay was born about an hour away from where I live. Deal with that Finlay marks. Also, Liam Neeson was born about 20 minutes away from where I live. Deal with that.....Liam...Neeson..marks...




You just shot to the top 5 of my coolest people on the forum list. Not only am I proud to be a huge Finlay fan, but I just watched Taken and The Grey last week! (Both are excellent, in completely different ways. The Grey might be one of his best movies ever) Plus, Liam was one of the only good parts of Episode I, he ruled as Qui Gon Jinn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You go dip into the Finlay pool from his matches on WCW Saturday Night and it would be enough to fill up a set. No kidding. Especially when he got some ham & egger. He'd stiff the fuck out of 'em just to show that you shouldn't be tanking like that. Oh man. WWE or someone else has to make one. There has to be one out there somewhere. WWE if you made a Superstar Billy Graham set, then you should be making Finlay his own. That's common sense b/c no one gives a damn about Billy Graham.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There are indeed fan made FINLAY sets. And a Finlay Vs Regal Vs Benoit set too. They are spectacular, though the FINLAY set stops at WM 23.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That includes pre-WWE, right? Although Finlay's 2006 & early 2007 being a set alone is good enough.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh absolutely it does .



Spoiler: listings



14 Disc Best of Fit Finlay set - Match Listings

Disc 1
Fit Finlay vs. Young David (Davey Boy Smith) (England 3/13/82)
Fit Finlay & Rocky Moran vs. Owen Hart & Ross Hart (2/3 Falls) (England 3/31/84)
Fit Finlay vs. Marty Jones (2/3 Falls Grudge Match) (England 4/14/84)
Fit Finlay vs. Danny Collins (England 2/1/86)
Fit Finlay vs. The Grasshopper (England 3/22/86)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (JIP) (Vienna 7/86)
Fit Finlay & Skull Murphy vs. 'Tarzan' Johnny Wilson & Don Eagle (England 9/27/86)
Fit Finlay vs. Kung Fu (Reslo 1988)

Disc 2
Fit Finlay vs. Danny Boy Collins (Reslo 1988)
Fit Finlay vs. Danny Boy Collins (Cage Match) (Reslo 1990)
Fit Finlay vs. Kid McCoy (Cage Match) (Reslo 1990)
Fit Finlay & Skull Murphy vs. Boston Blackie & ??? (Reslo 1990)
Fit Finlay & Skull Murphy vs. Steve Jones (Regal) & Orig Williams (Reslo 1990)
Fit Finlay vs. Rambo (Vienna Handheld 1990)
Fit Finlay vs. Owen Hart (Vienna Handheld 1990)
Fit Finlay vs. Steve Wright (Graz 6/30/90)
CWA Music Video (“We Are Dynamite”)

Disc 3
Fit Finlay & Marty Jones vs. Mile Zrno & Franz Schumann (Vienna Handheld 8/3/90)
Fit Finlay vs. Jushin Liger (New Japan 2/6/91)
Fit Finley & Franz Schumann vs. Hiroshi Hase & Jushin Liger (New Japan 2/14/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Jushin Liger (New Japan 4/15/91)
Fit Finlay & Johnny Smith vs. Chris Benoit & Tony St. Clair (Vienna Handheld 8/3/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Vienna Handheld 8/18/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Hanover Handheld 9/9/91)

Disc 4
Fit Finlay vs. Franz Schumann (Hanover Handheld 9/10/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Irish Street Fight) (Hannover Handheld 9/11/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Dave Taylor (Hanover Handheld 9/15/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Irish Street Fight) (Hanover Handheld 10/13/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Irish Street Fight) (Hanover Handheld 10/18/91)

Disc 5
Fit Finlay vs. Rambo (Hanover Handheld 10/19/91)
Fit Finlay vs. Rambo (Irish Street Fight) (Bremen Handheld 1991)
Fit Finlay vs. Jushin Liger (New Japan 4/92)
Fit Finlay vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (New Japan Handheld 4/18/92)
Fit Finlay vs. El Samurai (New Japan Handheld 4/23/92)
Fit Finlay & Pegasus Kid vs. ***** Casas & Eddy Guerrero (New Japan 4/30/92)
Fit Finlay vs. Eddie Gilbert (Bremen Handheld 12/19/92)

Disc 6
Fit Finlay vs. Alex Wright (Vienna Handheld 1993)
Fit Finlay vs. Franz Schumann (Irish Street Fight) (Vienna Handheld 1993)
Fit Finlay vs. Lance Storm (Vienna Handheld 1993)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (New Japan Handheld 6/10/93)
Fit Finlay vs. Mile Zrno (Hanover 9/25/93)
Fit Finlay vs. Jushin Liger (Bremen Handheld 12/18/93)

Disc 7
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Vienna Handheld 8/13/94)
Fit Finlay vs. Steve Casey (Vienna Handheld 8/16/94)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Bremen Handheld 11/12/94)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Chain Match) (Bremen Handheld 11/22/94)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Irish Street Fight) (Bremen Handheld 11/25/94)
Fit Finlay vs. 2 Cold Scorpio (Bremen Handheld 11/27/94)

Disc 8
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Chain Match) (Bremen Handheld 12/7/94) (Fair VQ)
Fit Finlay vs. Franz Schumann (Bremen Handheld 12/16/94) (Fair VQ)
Fit Finlay vs. Doink (Steve Keirn) (Bremen Handheld 12/17/94)
Fit Finlay vs. Boston Blackie (Ladder Match) (Reslo 1995)
Fit Finlay vs. Ulf Hermann (Irish Street Fight) (Graz Handheld 7/6/95)
Fit Finlay vs. Joe Joe Lee (Satoshi Kojima) (Graz Handheld 7/8/95)

Disc 9
Fit Finlay vs. Ulf Hermann (Irish Street Fight) (Vienna Handheld 7/16/95)
Fit Finlay vs. Franz Schumann (Vienna Handheld 8/5/95)
Fit Finlay vs. Brad Armstrong (Incomplete) (Bremen Handheld 12/3/95)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Bremen Handheld 12/10/95)

Disc 10
Belfast Bruiser Interview (WCWSN 2/10/96)
Belfast Bruiser vs. Brad Armstrong (WCWSN 2/17/96)
Belfast Bruiser vs. Brad Armstrong (Nitro 2/19/96)
Belfast Bruiser vs. Steven Regal (Uncensored 3/24/96)
Belfast Bruiser vs. Steven Regal (WCWSN 4/13/96)
Belfast Bruiser vs. Steven Regal (WCWSN 4/27/96)
Belfast Bruiser vs. Steven Regal (Parking Lot Brawl) (Nitro 4/29/96)
Fit Finlay vs. Ulf Hermann (Irish Street Fight) (Bremen Handheld 11/25/96)
Fit Finlay vs. Hector Garza (Bremen Handheld 12/7/96) (Shaky VQ)
Fit Finlay vs. Tony St. Clair (Boxing Match) (Bremen Handheld 12/19/96) (Wrestlecrap!!!)

Disc 11
Fit Finlay vs. Terry Funk (Bremen Handheld 12/21/96)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Nitro 10/27/97)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (WCWSN 11/1/97)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (WCWSN 12/13/97)
Fit Finlay vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 12/15/97)
Fit Finlay vs. Steven Regal (Main Event 12/20/97)
Fit Finlay vs. Eddy Guerrero (Nitro 12/22/97)
Fit Finlay vs. Booker T (Nitro 5/4/98)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Slamboree 5/17/98)
Fit Finlay vs. Eddy Guerrero (Nitro 6/1/98)
Fit Finlay vs. Booker T (GAB 6/14/98)

Disc 12
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Nitro 6/15/98)
Fit Finlay vs. Booker T (Thunder 7/2/98)
Fit Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (WWW 7/18/98)
Fit Finlay vs. Booker T (Nitro 2/9/99)
Fit Finlay & David Taylor vs. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko (Nitro 2/16/99)
Fit Finlay & Steven Regal vs. Chris Benoit & Perry Saturn (Nitro 6/28/99)
Junkyard Battle Royal (BATB 7/11/99)
Fit Finlay vs. Terry Funk vs. Tiger Steele (Hardcore Match) (EWF 5/18/01)
Fit Finlay vs. Robbie Brookside (Irish Street Fight) (EWF 5/19/01)

Disc 13
My Name is Finlay
Finlay vs. Matt Hardy (SD! 1/20/06)
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 2/3/06)
Finlay vs. Rey Mysterio (SD! 3/24/06)
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 5/5/06)
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (Judgment Day 5/21/06)
Finlay vs. Paul Birchall (Debut of Little Bastard) (SD! 5/26/06)
Finlay vs. Bobby Lashley (SD! 7/14/06)
Finlay vs. William Regal (GAB 7/23/06)
Finlay vs. William Regal (SD! 7/28/06)

Disc 14
Finlay vs. William Regal (SD! 8/4/06)
Finlay vs. Rey Mysterio (SD! 9/8/06)
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 11/24/06)
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit (SD! 2/2/07)
Finlay vs. Chris Benoit vs. MVP (SD! 3/2/07)
Finlay vs. Undertaker (SD! 3/9/07)
Money in the Bank (WM 4/1/07)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> You just shot to the top 5 of my coolest people on the forum list. Not only am I proud to be a huge Finlay fan, but I just watched Taken and The Grey last week! (Both are excellent, in completely different ways. The Grey might be one of his best movies ever) Plus, Liam was one of the only good parts of Episode I, he ruled as Qui Gon Jinn.


A close family friend's mother is friends with Neeson's mother. She told the story of him taking her for dinner in NYC and acting all superior mega actor for her and she cut him right back down to size in front of everybody or something along those lines. Pretty funny story all things considered :lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

> Fit Finlay vs. Joe Joe Lee (Satoshi Kojima) (Graz Handheld 7/8/95)


say whaaa?

May have actually found what I should spend my random cash on...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I wish I had discs 10-14 right friggin now. I'd pay good money for those. That looks like some absolutely wonderful stuff. I think I'm gonna go dig and find some FINLAY WCW Saturday Night stuff, I've seen his PPV matches and several Nitro matches from 1995-1999, but there is a good bit of stuff on those dics I have not even heard of, let alone seen.

How is the Smackdown match with Regal from 06'? Don't think I've seen that one. Did they get enough time to work their magic?

I wish I could buy a blend of ALL of Benoits, Eddies, and Finlays stuff from WCW. I need it.

Edit- Starbuck, I woulda never guessed that Liam was a big timer. It's funny when you hear stuff like that, cause he seems like he'd be a normal old guy. It's not like he's DeNiro or Pacino, he's Liam Neeson. Who would ask for Liam Neesons autograph? I bet TAWD from Sunny photos would but besides that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/2 for Regal/Finlay SD 06. They had another match the week after but I only gave it **.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They're not very long, but I recall them being the general goodness that those two always bring. One (_or probably both)_ have some Hornswoggle shenanigans as that was a new thing around the time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Finlay set is immensely great but was made way too early. It was made while Fit was still an active worker, he probably had the Matt Hardy MOTYC like a week after the release.** His 2008-2012 is fucking staggering and I think goodhelmet should make a re-do. Plus I'd imagine more Euro and WCW would have been found by now to shove on there (in fact I'm positive of it, especially with the - and I think Cody will like this one - WCW B-SIDES PROJECT).

EDIT - ** Checked the release and I was right, it was the same week.. :lmao :lmao The set was released June 15th 2007 and the Matt Hardy match was taped June 19th. I HAVE MAGICAL POWERS.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ok, I don't know why I even bothered asking, it's Regal and Finlay, it's not like there is a scenario where I wouldn't want to see them go at it. If you told me they were horrible I'd still have to see it for myself. Hornswoggle shens or not, it's not often you get to see 2 absolute MASTERS of their craft, whose styles blend absolutely perfectly, mix it up in the ring. Even for 5 minutes, it's worth it. Regal can do more in 5 minutes than most wrestlers can do in a 25 minute epic.n Finlay is the same way. They might be the best short match wrestlers ever. And long matches. And in between ones as well.

Finlays 2008 was otherworldly, the only person who rivals him for Worker of the Year is the Undertaker. And you know what? I think Finlay still wins.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah where is the 2010 project ? :lmao c'mon man

Gonna watch this Bret Dungenons DVD after raw, anybody have starz or review on it ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Things I remember about Finlay's 08 run:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I have a Dungeon review if you care to look it up Skins .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The Finlay set is immensely great but was made way too early. It was made while Fit was still an active worker, he probably had the Matt Hardy MOTYC like a week after the release.** His 2008-2012 is fucking staggering and I think goodhelmet should make a re-do. Plus I'd imagine more Euro and WCW would have been found by now to shove on there (in fact I'm positive of it, especially with the - and I think Cody will like this one - WCW B-SIDES PROJECT).
> 
> EDIT - ** Checked the release and I was right, it was the same week.. :lmao :lmao The set was released June 15th 2007 and the Matt Hardy match was taped June 19th. I HAVE MAGICAL POWERS.


Didn't even acknowledge the Hardy match got nixed. Well shit. Should have been made this year for the chance to not miss anything, tbhayley. I would say in 2010, but we all know what he did on the indies and there is no way one should skip the series vs Callihan.

WCW B-SIDES :mark:

Imagine the Meng goodness too. Sweet lady gaga.



Callamus said:


> Things I remember about Finlay's 08 run:


WATCH ECW. 

He also had a few matches with Khali that were good. Well, one was. The Belfast Brawl was fine, only it had a crap finish. Tip of the Finlay iceberg. Oh and the CHUCK PALUMBO matches too. Awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

April is as far as the guy uploading ECW on XWT has gotten to, and no Finlay yet. Just terrible, terrible Chavo Jr crap . Henry showed up on the second to last episode in April though so things are picking up. I hope .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> Yeah where is the 2010 project ? :lmao c'mon man


XWT has a freeleech torrent of every 2010 PPV, which was my original intention (watching every show in full) before not being able to find them. The torrent will take forever, but I should be good downloading two or three shows at a time. minutes-after-edit : It's at 29.1 kb/s right now..... :hb ~~~

I'm not sure what this has to do with watching it, but if I have the shit I might watch it. Yeah, actually I think I'm just not in the mood to go looking for things. I'd rather not watch stuff on youtube but collecting everything isn't a task I'm up for (for like, non-PPV things b/c this freeleech torrent made it so much easier). The fact I've barely been in a wrestling mood for months hasn't helped. I definitely want to do this, though. I WILL (TRY TO WATCH AT LEAST TWO MOE MATCHES BEFORE POSSIBLY GIVING UP). IDK, even if I stop this mid-way through to hit another watch-list-fest-of-shittiness, I can see myself going back to it after a while.

You know what? I feel like watching a PPV today, though. In full. I have the December to Dismember DVD. Or IDK, I could have a show that I've never watched laying around (in a folder next to the shit I HAVE watched). 


CAL WATCH THE FINLAY/HENRYS FER FOOK SAKE



HayleySabin said:


> Didn't even acknowledge the Hardy match got nixed. Well shit. Should have been made this year for the chance to not miss anything, tbhayley. I would say in 2010, but we all know what he did on the indies and there is no way one should skip the series vs Callihan.
> 
> WCW B-SIDES :mark:
> 
> Imagine the Meng goodness too. Sweet lady gaga.


It's not supposed to come out for a while, but just IMAGINE the listing on that. I'm going to have to buy two sets, one to watch and the other to have whipped cream sex with.

I remember nothing about Finlay in 2010. Actually I assumed he had stopped being an active WWE guy by that point. This is something worth looking at in my 2010 watching eight months from now.


Oh shit, the ECW guy is up to April? I've only gotten January. I'm gonna need a better ratio. Well at least someone is taking my kbs for this Best of Justice Pain that I got for one match. :mark: Wellll there's a Tajiri match on there, too, actually.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I have a Dungeon review if you care to look it up Skins .


Yep I'll check it out


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's not supposed to come out for a while, but just IMAGINE the listing on that. I'm going to have to buy two sets, one to watch and the other to have whipped cream sex with.
> 
> I remember nothing about Finlay in 2010. Actually I assumed he had stopped being an active WWE guy by that point. This is something worth looking at in my 2010 watching eight months from now.
> 
> ...


Keep me posted. This isn't overwhelming "what to purchase?" wrestling babble. I'd buy that in a heartbeat. It's gotten Seabs' Liger & Midnight Express priority level. (which I'll own...someday)

I don't mean to give expectations, b/c he pretty much did nothing then. But he was on his last legs. Only match he had that year to see is the great one vs Knox on SUPERSTARS. All the rest was getting squashed by Batista, and two battle royals. _(WM 26 pre show & one from June to earn a spot in a Fatal Four Way match)_

What match did you get the whole Justice Pain set for if it wasn't the Tajiri one?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HayleySabin said:


> What match did you get the whole Justice Pain set for if it wasn't the Tajiri one?


The second of these:



Spoiler:  SECOND



The Necro Butcher/Toby Klein v. The H8 Club (CZW 6/11/05)
I downloaded two of these because I read one of them was likely the best CZW match ever, so I figured if I didn’t like these enough I wouldn’t bother with anything else from Zandig’s shitty company. Man oh man, I liked this a LOT. Necro is so fucking great, and if I find more performances from him like this in 2005 I’d say he was better than Joe that year. Four guys brawling all over the place can typically look like lumps of monkey carny shit, but Necro is such an amazing seller and offensive wrestler that it just looks like a straight-up street fight from the straight-up streets. He has to be the puncher of the entire decade. At one point he and Gage (H8 Club is Nick Gage and Justice Pain, fwiw) agree to sit down on opposite chairs and just have a boxing match, and Necro’s PUNCHES, MAN. JUST HIS PUNCHES. There cannot be a better puncher in the decade. I would be shocked. Maybe Tenryu, I guess. But Necro’s in the top three; I’ll throw a dart out a window and say that. Klein’s a surprisingly fun dude, as well, and I never se him talked about, which is weird when I hear shitty dudes like ‘Sick’ Nick Mondo being talked about. Where’s the love for Mr. Insanity? The H8 Club are supposedly cunty heels who are cunts who put people through tables and just act like flat out cunts to everyone, so Necro and Klein pounding the shit out of them came off like babyfaces going after heels. The reverse is good, too. Gage and Pain beating on Klein felt like heels beating on a face (and the face’s FACE), and the crowd went big with the ‘Necro’ chants. Pain eventually takes this stupid off-of-the-ceiling (they were close enough to the ceiling, anyway) table bump, which I didn’t love, but if the H8 Club are cunts who put people through tables, then I buy it as a form of revenge. The H8 Club weren’t afraid to bump, either, especially Pain who took some from the ring to the floor. There was a double suplex where both Gage and Pain dragged Necro from the ring to floor, and Klein probably would have gotten the pin of off that if Necro hadn’t destroyed the referee (this was FCA, btw). Cool touch. There was also a gigantic ‘everybody throw your chairs into the ring’ spot where Gage gets buried and then Necro decides to hit a top rope somersault senton. That REALLY would have made a good ending, and the few moves after that felt a little like overkill (lasted about a two mins after that I think but w/e), but the H8 Club were retaining, so I guess it couldn’t be the finish. I probably haven’t mentioned 70% of the crazy spots in the match. This was possibly as good an ECW brawl as any ECW brawl that ECW managed to pull off, and Necro is your reason for it. I actually think this is good enough for a mild nomination, but I won’t bother. And in case you were wondering, I have the right date. This seriously happened the **same night** as Necro’s MOTYC with Samoa Joe. Necro is, indeed, so fucking great.

The Necro Butcher/Toby Klein v. The H8 Club (CZW 7/9/05)
I downloaded part 2 of a two part Justice Pain DVD to get this, and I just got it in time because the torrent died when it was 92% finished. Luckily I got this in full, and there’s actually a Tajiri match in there too, which is neat. The torrent not finishing means I watch this without sound, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make to see another Necro brawl. Still this was a little disappointing. Still fun, and pretty good, and I think if I thought this was as enjoyable as it was for the period of time that it was actually enjoyable, then I should go back and watch the Whipwreck/Sabu/Van Dam stuff on the 96 yearbook. Still this had some big moves that kind of felt like big moves for the sake of big moves and more no-selly stuff than the first one. Starts with Klein brawling with Pain and Necro brawling with Gage, and the Klein/Pain stuff kind of looked like weapon spam. I saw these two brawl in the June match and not make it look like weapon spam, so IDK what they were doing here. Not BAD, but not terribly good, either. Necro v. Gage was pretty great. They have some non-weapon spam brawling which Necro mostly dominates. Then Necro sends Gage through the fucking glass of a fucking entrance door, and Gage doesn’t get a shitbit of offense in until we get an interference from someone who, at first look, I thought was Bill Alfonso. Necro really wails on Gage, though, breaking all sorts of demented shit over his head including a computer keyboard. This had big spots that kind of felt more ‘big spotty’ than the big spots in the June match. A large piece of steel-mesh-ish stuff (like what would be used in a panel for a modern day cage match) was placed to make a bridge over the guardrail and the ring, and Necro got suplexed on there. Then Klein gets DDT’ed while Necro is still laying on it, so Pain pretty much lands on top of Necro. There’s a barbed wire bat which is booted into Necro’s face, and it winds up getting stuck on what I hope, for his sake, was his beard. There are I don’t know how many suplexes into chair/concrete areas. There was a big Klein spot on a wooden panel. There was a suplex on an upright chair where Pain lands kind of disgustingly sideways on the head of the chair. Necro and Klein win the tag titles by actually using a chair-pile (w/ only five-six chairs this time) somersault senton (Necro slips on the top rope b/c of dizziness and pretty much sentons on Gage’s head……Necro also seemingly can’t get his legs up for a spike piledriver), and I REALLY wish that was the finish to the last match. There was also an interference from some dude who I didn’t recognise but looked like the Barbarian. He also looked fucking awful as he couldn’t even execute an Irish whip to Pain (while Gage looks on watching randomly). When Random Facepaint Man DOES get the Irish whip going, Pain takes an Undertaker plancha into the guardrail for the fuck of it. Necro brings his usual Moondog greatness, raking Gage’s bloody head, having a five star punch war, etc. But this was pretty messy, and fell flat of what the previous match built up. In the long run it *was* pretty enjoyable, but I’m fairly certain when I heard someone call a Necro/Klein v. H8 Club match the best match CZW ever had, they would have mean the June one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Currently still looking for Evan's Bret DVD review :lmao

Why is Ziggler having a match with Damien Fucking Sandow at Battleground ? This company, Vince does this just for my I'm starting to think


Edit: FOUND IT


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Currently still looking for Evan's Bret DVD review :lmao
> 
> Why is Ziggler having a match with Damien Fucking Sandow at Battleground ? This company, Vince does this just for my I'm starting to think
> 
> ...


Definitely check out the Bret vs Dynamite Kid match from Capitol Centre Wrestling. Absolute gem.

Edit-just goes to show what I know, I always thought Necro butcher was just a garbage/ultrviolent wrestler. To be fair, I've never ever seen one of his matches. And I only know of him from The Wrestler and his Wikipedia page. I really really cannot get into the ultraviolent stuff, makes me sick to my stomach. Foleys matches in ECW and the ones with Hunter, Orton, Edge, and the AMAZING tag at ONS are as far as I care to go. I like Ravens stuff too. I guess what I'm saying is I like my matches to have a story and a reason for going that far, stapling someones tongue just cause its a "King of the Deathmatch" tournament just doesn't work for me. Sounds like Necro is a lot more than that, I will have to check out that match with Somoa Joe you mentioned. I love me some good FIGHTS, and I've yet to see someone throw a better punch than Terry Funk so I gotta see Necro at work.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll check it out, :mark: islander, andre and taker matches, I remember not liking the perfect match though, iirc its was mostly Perfect rolling out the right so many times, and head locks


Off-topic kinda a pet-peeve for anyone watching raw, I think were in a "reality type" era now, I think we all know what Goldust looks like why does he have his face paint on with a suit and last week also ?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HOLY FUCKING SPEAR REIGNS BAH GAWD.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Gonna watch some more KANE instead of Raw.



redskins25 said:


> Yeah where is the 2010 project ? :lmao c'mon man
> 
> Gonna watch this Bret Dungenons DVD after raw, anybody have starz or review on it ?


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15409442.html?highlight=dungeon#post15409442
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15398778.html?highlight=dungeon#post15398778
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15316538.html?highlight=dungeon#post15316538
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15256530.html?highlight=dungeon#post15256530

Links to my reviews of all 3 discs and the blu ray excusives. Extremely fucking good set. One of my personal favorites.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Satan’s Prison: the anthology of the Elimination Chamber DVD review​*
*Disc 3​*
*Match # 1: The Undertaker vs The Big Show vs Vladimir Kozlov vs HHH vs Edge vs Jeff Hardy ( No way out 2009)*

Edge and Jeff Hardy start and shocking to me Edge is pinned by Hardy even though he is champion, I didn’t know that was possible :lol. Anyways, that was an interesting way to start the match. Although this looked really good on paper it was actually pretty boring until taker came in, problem is he came in last :lol. The finish was FUN with HHH and Taker having some good near falls, possibly one of the best EC finishes ever, it was just so damn good! This match is worth a watch for the finish alone. *** ¼*

*Match # 2: John Cena vs Mike Knox vs Kane vs Edge vs Rey Mysterio vs Chris Jericho*

Umm, OK, I guess Edge is in this too, he had to be a dick and attack Kofi to do it, eh, its probably for the best . A decent match, not up to par with some of the other matches on this set but it was still fun. Rey is easily the best in this match. Once again Cena the champion is eliminated while there is still 3 others in the match, he looked really weak in this one. Anyway it comes down to Rey and Edge, which really is a fun combination, they have a fun match to finish and Edge walks out the new WHC, setting up for super Cena to win the belt back at mania 25. *** ½*

*Match # 3: John Cena vs Sheamus vs Ted Dibiase vs Randy Orton vs HHH vs Kofi Kingston( EC 2010 RAW)*

I guess Kofi is going to actually be in this match this time? That sucks . Sheamus the WWE champ and Kofi start out which seems like it won’t be anything special. This is a little slow, but still fun. I think part of the problem is that there is a lot of young guys without any EC experience. Sheamus, Kofi, and Dibiase are all young guy in their first EC match. However, HHH, Cena, and Orton are all veterans with experience in the chamber. Anyway the finish is a little bland and supercena wins again. BUT WAIT! THE BELLY BUTTON TATOO IS HERE! BATISTA IS NEW WWE CHAMP! ** ¾*

*Match # 4: The Undertaker vs CM Punk vs John Morrison vs Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio vs Rtruth*

R-Truth in a big match? Eh, he jobs to Punk early :lol. This is the last match of this set and its been a fun set so far. This was a little slow but everyone but Truth is FUN in the ring. A big complaint is that no more than 3 guys we’re in the ring at a time, which makes the action a little limited compared to other EC matches. However, onc taker gets in with Morrison and Jericho, it gets awesome. Did Morrison and taker ever have a singles match? That could be real fun. The crowd is fucking dead, and kind of taking the mood out of this match, which sucks. Morrison eats a chokeslam and we’re down to Jericho and taker. Undertaker has the match one but HBK IS HERRE! SWEET CHIN MUSIC! ITS OVER! JERICHO WINS! Awesome ending! ****



*FINAL EC RANKINGS THORUGH 2010
1: NYR 2005
2: SVS 2002
3: EC 2010 SD
4: No way out 2008 RAW
5: No way out 2008 SD
6: Summerslam 2003
7: No way out 2009 RAW
8: No way out 2009 SD
9: EC 2010 RAW
10: NYR 2006
11: December to Dismember 

I’ll get to the remaining 5 matches not on this DVD at some point!​*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The 2011 Chamber will more than likely crack your top 5, I imagine. Pretty awesome match. The RAW 2012 Chamber is actually the only one I've never seen...


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

SHIELD TIME


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15409442.html?highlight=dungeon#post15409442
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15398778.html?highlight=dungeon#post15398778
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15316538.html?highlight=dungeon#post15316538
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/gener...t15256530.html?highlight=dungeon#post15256530
> ...


Haha I actually founbd your will ease, finding his review took for ever

They dont pop for Ziggler anymore 

this raw has bad hilarious


Edit: I really like sd 09 chamber


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DAT ZIGGLER doing his best Daniel Bryan impression right now. Another week, another fun Shield match.

EDIT: OH MY GOODNESS! That may very well be the best spear Reigns ever did in a match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ok soo I was watching the Bret DVD and was starstruck by Meng/Haku so now I'm watching haku/Meng matches :lmao, Funnyfaces or Cody or anymore would love some Haku matches to watch


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bought the HHH DVD today. I thoroughly enjoyed the documentary, though I could've done with less Steph stuff and more 2000 title reign/Foley matches and more Evolution.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Meng/Barbarian vs. Jericho/Guerrero (2/24/97)
vs. Benoit Slamboree 1997
Meng vs. Jerry Flynn some time in 1999
Meng vs. The Giant/Big Show
You can't really go wrong with random 5-10 minute long Meng matches. Avoid his lengthy bouts and stay away from The Barbarian and you're good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)




----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Edit-just goes to show what I know, I always thought Necro butcher was just a garbage/ultrviolent wrestler. To be fair, I've never ever seen one of his matches. And I only know of him from The Wrestler and his Wikipedia page. I really really cannot get into the ultraviolent stuff, makes me sick to my stomach. Foleys matches in ECW and the ones with Hunter, Orton, Edge, and the AMAZING tag at ONS are as far as I care to go. I like Ravens stuff too. I guess what I'm saying is I like my matches to have a story and a reason for going that far, stapling someones tongue just cause its a "King of the Deathmatch" tournament just doesn't work for me. Sounds like Necro is a lot more than that, I will have to check out that match with Somoa Joe you mentioned. I love me some good FIGHTS, and I've yet to see someone throw a better punch than Terry Funk so I gotta see Necro at work.


I don't bother with ultraviolent stuff if it's ultraviolent for the sake of being ultraviolent. Necro's just really great at making every shot and every weapon seem important and not like a throwaway prop used as a cheap crowd pleaser. He's not going to be for everyone and he obviously works against tons of shitty dudes, but IDK, I don't feel like he wrestles the way he does just for the sake of violence. Some might see his insane bumps as him just wanting to get the crowd to chant 'holy shit'...I don't see that at all, I see a guy who bumps as realistically as he possibly can to make whatever offensive move he took look legit. Necro's punches are stiff, btw. Like it's pretty clear that a lot of the time he'll just actually hit a dude in the face instead of throwing a worked punch, and for whatever reasons some people think that's the sign of a shitty worker. Uhhhh, why? Like, these are grown men...it's not like he's trying to throw a worked punch and is so uncoordinated that he can't do it. If two dudes are willing to stiff each other b/c they're badass then what's the problem? People like it when Vader does it, right? I only bring this up because I don't want anybody to go into a Necro match expecting the guy to have these incredible punches like Jerry Lawler, he's more of a Vader puncher. Also yeah, Necro's worked with stupid weapons that have no place in wrestling and there are spots that I wish didn't happen, but he's just magnificent at piecing everything together as a giant hard-fought war instead of random bullshit left and right. That's one of the reasons I fucking abhor Angle/Shane McMahon so much; a lot of it is an atrocious wankfest. What exactly was the use of all those suplexes through the glass? Because he couldn't put the untrained silver spoon wanker away? Because he hated him that much? I don't by any of it. The crowd going nuts for it chanting 'one more time' (when Shane was the babyface) makes it pretty fucking clear that a wankfest spot. It boggles my mind how people who shit on ECW over and over can call that a great match. For my own well-being I'm better off pretending that match doesn't exist. I'd rather watch Davey Richards. Fuck Shane McMahon and his overrated turd of a career, btw. Sack a shit. 

I'M CALM.

Raven kinda bores and annoys the piss out of me, tbh. Don't like his work, don't like his promos, don't really like anything about him. Had some stuff I like, I guess (Williams & Gordy matches, WCW v. Benoit & DDP, a tag v. Punk.....weirdly enough I think I liked a brawl with Vampiro who I don't like either).


SOOOOOO CALM.



funnyfaces1 said:


> You can't really go wrong with random 5-10 minute long Meng matches. Avoid his lengthy bouts and *stay away from The Barbarian and you're good.*


waaaaaaaaaaaat? IT'S REALLY HARD TO BE CALM NOW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll take it once step further. Lex Luger sucks. Yokozuna sucks. William Regal sucks. Shinya Hashimoto sucks. Lucha Libre sucks. Kurt Angle rules. And Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards is far better than Chavo Guerrero vs. Evan Bourne.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm c---c-calm
...
.
.
.
.
.



random thought...


...why's my eye twitching.........?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Brothers of Destruction Vs The Two Man Power Trip @ Backlash 2001 held up awesome on a rewatch. I thought that during the mid point of the match that the quality took a slight dip, but other than that it's a damn near classic bout that will never get the credit it deserve for its limb isolation & HHH/Austin bumping like maniacs for Taker & Kane's collective offense. Really enthused that it was released on the HHH set because quite honestly I felt that HHH's performance was completely top notch, about a hair away from being on the same tier as the Jericho/Benoit tag a month later. I'd go **** 3/4* for it at the moment I think, maybe it'll get four due to its depth but I'll make a final decision before the Disc 2 & 3 reviews are up.

RVD match is next :mark:.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched the Jake Roberts documentary and holy shit that guy went through some serious stuff. Very good documentary that I watched thanks to seeing people in here praise it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> The second of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


NECRO FUCKING BUTCHER. 

Yeah, I get why you'd give it a shot now.

------------

RAW was horrible. Shield match wasn't even worth seeing. Total bust outside of the Rhodes Family.



> You can't really go wrong with random 5-10 minute long Meng matches. Avoid his lengthy bouts and stay away from The Barbarian and you're good.


Ignore this, skins. It's all good. All of it from Meng. Barbarian is legit too. That five tag team elimination match match - aka ten man tag - from Survivor Series '88 saw Barbarian be the MVP of it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I've tried for over a decade, but I give up with The Barbarian. I don't know what you guys see in him, and whenever I ask for recommendations, I get nothing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch more. And more Yokozuna.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually enjoy Yokozuna. I said that part just to spite Yeah. But Barbarian. I just don't get the same feeling of aggression that I get from a Meng beatdown. Instead, I see a guy that is slow and plodding and compensates by working stiff, and I care for "stiff" work less than others.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Necro's the man. I can completely understand someone's lack of interest in "garbage" wrestling, but Necro is most certainly a special breed within the American deathmatch circle. It's almost as if he was a one man army in trying to give the sport a new name by the way he worked. Danielson gets a tout for being the best of the past decade but look at the opponent's he's had. He's more often than not had the opportunity to wrestle great matches thanks to his notoriety as the best. Necro? Yeah, he's been stuck with shit-as-fuck men purely for the sake of creating violence yet he's still been absolutely grand in those settings. I'm not going to make the argument that Necro is better than Danielson (though I've seen it done) but he most certainly deserves the recognition as one of the better wrestlers that's come up in this generation.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I'll take it once step further. Lex Luger sucks. Yokozuna sucks. *William Regal sucks*. *Shinya Hashimoto sucks. Lucha Libre sucks*. Kurt Angle rules. And Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards is far better than Chavo Guerrero vs. Evan Bourne.


This is what you have done to all that is precious with wrestling:



Spoiler: .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I actually enjoy Yokozuna. I said that part just to spite Yeah. But Barbarian. I just don't get the same feeling of aggression that I get from a Meng beatdown. Instead, I see a guy that is slow and plodding and compensates by working stiff, and I care for "stiff" work less than others.


Yay for one.

I don't mind stiff if it helps the context of a match and isn't there b/c the guy in question happens to be reckless. Barbarian is and has always been someone I've been into. Can say he's step behind Meng/Haku, b/c he is, but by no means do I find myself not caring. He added to the duo much like Meng did.



Rah said:


> Necro's the man. I can completely understand someone's lack of interest in "garbage" wrestling, but Necro is most certainly a special breed within the American deathmatch circle. It's almost as if he was a one man army in trying to give the sport a new name by the way he worked. Danielson gets a tout for being the best of the past decade but look at the opponent's he's had. He's more often than not had the opportunity to wrestle great matches thanks to his notoriety as the best. Necro? Yeah, he's been stuck with shit-as-fuck men purely for the sake of creating violence yet he's still been absolutely grand in those settings. I'm not going to make the argument that Necro is better than Danielson (though I've seen it done) but he most certainly deserves the recognition as one of the better wrestlers that's come up in this generation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Necro had to work vs Nick Gage, non-motivated FAT Zandig, and some cats who may be even worse that I'm forgetting to name. The IWA-MS crew, iirc, of Ian Rotten, Freakshow, Insane Lane, etc. That man deserves every bit of praise he's earned. Most of the time he tends to make the work worth seeing too. He's more "old school mad man" than "typical indie death match worker", tbhayley.

Oh Dino. Bless his soul. Extreme alternate lifestyles for everyone!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really wish I didnt click on that spoiler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dino wishes he was Razor Ramon Hard Gay, at the end of the day.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'll take it once step further. Lex Luger sucks. Yokozuna sucks. William Regal sucks. Shinya Hashimoto sucks. Lucha Libre sucks. *Kurt Angle rules.* And Davey Richards vs. Eddie Edwards is far better than Chavo Guerrero vs. Evan Bourne.


:angle

RAW did absolutely nothing to pique my interest for Battleground, which was low anyways. So much for the buzz about Bryan and Orton having an Ironman match for the title, unless it's announced today on SD, which would be fucking stupid. How many confirmed matches are on the card anyways? Five? And why the hell are my boys Sandow and Ziggles on the pre-show?! :ziggler1


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sandow is obvious. He's trash until he cashes in. Then some can still think he's trash b/c not everyone is sold on the guy.

Dolph being left off despite appearing to have another Ambrose match is what's humorous. I get not wanting your card to look like NOC lite, but jeez WWE. For the one good thing you'll do, you have about 3-4 head scratchers following. Axel vs R-Truth in a filler match - oh boy.

I do love seeing the Usos get shunned off another PPV for the tag title shot. Especially for Shield vs RHODES. Good grief I'm pumped.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I've tried for over a decade, but I give up with The Barbarian. I don't know what you guys see in him, and whenever I ask for recommendations, I get nothing.


I don't even love the Barbarian or anything, but ignoring him would mean you don't get to see the Faces of Fear. Which is not cool.


I wanted them to give Sandow a losing streak. He would be a MITB holder that only won it because he came up and sneaked from behind, so losing every match he has proves that. Then wrestlers would give him shit for it and he starts doing all of this sneaky and cunning bullshit to win matches. If he cashes in the MITB to win it, he cases it in in a legit match which nobody sees coming (b/c every jackass has to do the 'shock' cash-in that was only cool the first couple of times Edge did it), only to be a sneaky wanker the whole thing anyway and have this master plan to wind up champion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You may get your wish. He could actually win legit by the way how they keep claiming Sandow is "missing his chances" to cash in. It would suit his egocentric character to win in a way no one expects so he can berate the fans some more upon his claim as champion.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm too lazy to crawl through the internet, but I've been really interested in a particular set and it's time I fucking buy something.

I looked through Seabs' comp list (well, I assume this is his) and he didn't have the 36 disc Goodhelmet comp for Eddie. I've never bought online, before, so I have no idea who to trust in ordering it. Cal said he no longer ships so he's out (or is he?). Basically, I'd like a recommendation on who to get it from. 

Or should I just get it straight from Goodhelmet? Not sure if he has a specific website to do that through or I have to find him on the new DVDVR, though. Hell, I'm not even sure if he sells to those not a member of their circle. Plus I'd need to acquire a credit card but murdering someone who owns one is worth the payoff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't ordered straight from him myself, but I know you can rely 100% on Seabs.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I've been eyeing that Eddie set for a while, I was thinking about getting it 2 weeks ago but no I end up getting a root canal and a $1000 dentist bill instead. Life sucks sometimes 


I didn't see Raw last night, but I plan on watching it on Hulu today or tomorrow, what is worth seeing on it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honestly, next to nothing. Watch the segment with the Rhodes family and that's about it. You'll get what you want from the Shield via that bit too. Unless you feel like watching their six man tag later in the night. But it's not worth watching outside of more Reigns SPEAR destruction.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

HayleySabin said:


> Haven't ordered straight from him myself, but I know you can rely 100% on Seabs.


He doesn't have it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Get the Midnight Express set instead as a compromise. MIDNIGHT EXPRESS!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> I'm too lazy to crawl through the internet, but I've been really interested in a particular set and it's time I fucking buy something.
> 
> I looked through Seabs' comp list (well, I assume this is his) and he didn't have the 36 disc Goodhelmet comp for Eddie. I've never bought online, before, so I have no idea who to trust in ordering it. Cal said he no longer ships so he's out (or is he?). Basically, I'd like a recommendation on who to get it from.
> 
> Or should I just get it straight from Goodhelmet? Not sure if he has a specific website to do that through or I have to find him on the new DVDVR, though. Hell, I'm not even sure if he sells to those not a member of their circle. Plus I'd need to acquire a credit card but murdering someone who owns one is worth the payoff.


I really want that Eddie set too :mark: I have bought a couple of things directly from Goodhelmet recently (his Smackdow Six and Hart Foundation 1997 sets) and he is a great guy of course, if you need his email adsress lemme know


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> I'm too lazy to crawl through the internet, but I've been really interested in a particular set and it's time I fucking buy something.
> 
> I looked through Seabs' comp list (well, I assume this is his) and he didn't have the 36 disc Goodhelmet comp for Eddie. I've never bought online, before, so I have no idea who to trust in ordering it. Cal said he no longer ships so he's out (or is he?). Basically, I'd like a recommendation on who to get it from.
> 
> Or should I just get it straight from Goodhelmet? Not sure if he has a specific website to do that through or I have to find him on the new DVDVR, though. Hell, I'm not even sure if he sells to those not a member of their circle. Plus I'd need to acquire a credit card but murdering someone who owns one is worth the payoff.



Goodhelmet/Will sells to anyone (I'm assuming, I've never heard of him saying no and I doubt he'd turn down money. I've bought over 260 total discs from him and he'll replace missing stuff or failed burns, etc). I'll PM you his email if you're interested (or zep will like he said). Will will even send you a list of available comps if you ask.

I think IVP has the Eddie set. Ummm, mayyyybe. I doubt they have the WWE discs of it, I guess. Actually they probably only have the non-US stuff. 

Cal and Seabs are both reliable. The English postal service, however, is not. Been waiting 13 months for discs that Cal sent like 7 times. GINGER COONT GIMME MY DISCS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Seabs is 100% reliable, one of the best out there, as is Platt off here too, always have my discs every time he sends them, with Cal it was something to do with his P.O, which was why i sent extra money a couple of times to get them sent recorded, and he did say his P.O has changed hands so maybe no more issues there, but hopefully he starts shilling again soon as i do really want that Eddie set.

Wish i could get more directly from Will, but with postage money can be an issue with me being in the UK.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Goodhelmet/Will sells to anyone (I'm assuming, I've never heard of him saying no and I doubt he'd turn down money. I've bought over 260 total discs from him and he'll replace missing stuff or failed burns, etc). I'll PM you his email if you're interested (or zep will like he said). Will will even send you a list of available comps if you ask.
> 
> I think IVP has the Eddie set. Ummm, mayyyybe. I doubt they have the WWE discs of it, I guess. Actually they probably only have the non-US stuff.
> 
> Cal and Seabs are both reliable. The English postal service, however, is not. Been waiting 13 months for discs that Cal sent like 7 times. GINGER COONT GIMME MY DISCS.


Yeah, his email is probably the best bet. I think I found it on another forum but I'd rather get it directly from someone who knows. I signed up at PWO to message him but I only saw after registering that a second activation email is sent. Considering I used a throwaway 10 minute mail account (as they wouldn't accept Gmail) I guess I'll be placed on the spam list.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Yeah, his email is probably the best bet. I think I found it on another forum but I'd rather get it directly from someone who knows. I signed up at PWO to message him but I only saw after registering that a second activation email is sent. Considering I used a throwaway 10 minute mail account (as they wouldn't accept Gmail) I guess I'll be placed on the spam list.


Check your rep


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HayleySabin said:


> Honestly, next to nothing. Watch the segment with the Rhodes family and that's about it. You'll get what you want from the Shield via that bit too. Unless you feel like watching their six man tag later in the night. But it's not worth watching outside of more Reigns SPEAR destruction.



A Shield six man tag that ISNT worth watching???? How is that possible? I'm taking your word for it and skipping till the Rhodes segment, but I'm gonna have to watch that tag, regardless. I don't think the Shield have had a 6 man tag I haven't enjoyed. They even managed to make Kofi tolerable for 15 minutes. That's damn near miraculous. Even if it's just Reigns destroying people, ill end up watching and not regretting it.

:mark: for a Midnight Express mention, are you a Stan Lane or a Dennis Condrey guy? That will tell me all I need to know about you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fecking local post office. Needs to BURN IN HELL for all the money it's screwed me out of. Yeah and Sheep Shagger, if you could drop me a PM just reminding me of what you ordered again I can try and get shit copied and sent out once more to ya since I've got nothing but free time now I'm jobless again .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just a heads up for ya'll: Everything on XWT is freeleech for the next week (Y)


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

YES.

& I'm about to watch the Last Man Standing bout between HBK & HHH; I fucking DESPISED this match on a last watch and gave it *1/4 **, wonder how it's going to hold up now, but I just can't wait to get to the plethora of TV matches on this disc :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Fecking local post office. Needs to BURN IN HELL for all the money it's screwed me out of. Yeah and Sheep Shagger, if you could drop me a PM just reminding me of what you ordered again I can try and get shit copied and sent out once more to ya since I've got nothing but free time now I'm jobless again .


Will you be taking new orders soon Cal?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Just a heads up for ya'll: Everything on XWT is freeleech for the next week (Y)


I wish this'd rather happen on their Classics site, but no matter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Will you be taking new orders soon Cal?


Indeed I will. Once I sort the discs out for Yeah and Sheep Shagger I'll go through all my discs again (got rid of some stuff, bought some new stuff) and get my list up to date and then begin taking orders.



Rah said:


> I wish this'd rather happen on their Classics site, but no matter.


Same for their classics site too .


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

HayleySabin said:


> Get the Midnight Express set instead as a compromise. MIDNIGHT EXPRESS!!!


I'm not sure if I could think of a comp that I would want to watch less than that one. Other than maybe a comp from another identical team that has more matches than the Midnight Express comp.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Shawn "Missing" HHH and landing a good solid five feet away from him through the announce table on an asai moonsault attempt is one of the most forced aerial spots I have ever seen. I mean MY GOD...... He was nowhere NEAR HHH, let alone close to actually hitting him.

Now Shawn's bleeding? This is almost as bad as his awful Wrestlemania XX bladejob.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I have a soft spot for all of the Shawn and Triple H matches (despite Summerslam actually). I haven't seen many more than once but on first viewing I don't think I've ever disliked one.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I actively dislike all of their matches bar 2 (not seen the 96 match I don't think, so fuck knows about that one). Raw 03 and Raw 06. The rest are just URGH.

:mark: Mid-South set was finally uploaded. Just waiting for a Bluray rip version now for better quality and EXTRAS.

ECW is up to June 08 on XWT now. Hope June is good because so far I've not wanted to watch ANYTHING from ECW 08. It's like a nightmare filled with Chavo Jr, The Jiz, Morrison and Tommy Dreamer just having matches non stop with each other including with Punk and Kane, and they certainly don't make me wanna sit through matches with the likes of Chavo Jr and The Jiz. When the fuck does Finlay and Hardy arrive?  And where the fuck is Henry? He had like 1 match in April and I ain't seen him yet .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

MY GOD. DO SOMETHING OTHER THAN GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS.

We go from ridiculous spots to ridiculous bladejobs to sleeperholds and punches in the latter stage of the match with no development showing how we got to that point. 

This match SUCKS. Can we finally get this over with so I can watch HHH/Flair? <3


----------



## That Guy (Jun 30, 2009)

TaylorFitz said:


> I have a soft spot for all of the Shawn and Triple H matches (despite Summerslam actually). I haven't seen many more than once but on first viewing I don't think I've ever disliked one.


Summerslam was their only match I actually liked. Couldn't stand the LMS and Armageddon three stages of hell. 

Though to be fair I thought the LMS ending was pretty cool as a kid.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rebellion 2001 time. Expecting shite from this tbh. Though that's probably because I hate the main event lol.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Cactus Jack said:


> :mark: for a Midnight Express mention, are you a Stan Lane or a Dennis Condrey guy? That will tell me all I need to know about you


Personally I prefer Condrey. Probably being a slight minority. Can't go wrong with either. Not a better worker than Lane but by jolly, his antics in the ring are incredible. Fantastic chemistry with Eaton. Rarely puts a foot wrong and the way he sells babyface resurgents and getting knocked onto the back foot adds so much to the matches.



TaylorFitz said:


> I'm not sure if I could think of a comp that I would want to watch less than that one. Other than maybe a comp from another identical team that has more matches than the Midnight Express comp.


How dare you.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

GOD this King Booker Vs HHH match is terrible.

HHH from his comeback in 2007 to the Last Man Standing match with Orton was horrendous. Seems as if the No Mercy main event woke him up. Yeah, I don't know what they were doing putting this match and the HBK match on this set.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/Orton from NM, their LMS one is their best one together, imo


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH's pre-match promo is one of the best face promos he's ever cut.

"THIS IS A DANGEROUS BUSINESS. RANDY ORTON. GET READY TO GET HURT"

"TO ALL OF THOSE WHO THINK THE GAME IS OVER? I'M JUST GETTING STARTED"

:mark: :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm curious if I'm the only one who doesn't think Bad Blood 2003 isn't a piece of crap?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I for one enjoyed the HHH/HBK HiaC match, gave it a ***1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> GOD this King Booker Vs HHH match is terrible.
> 
> HHH from his comeback in 2007 to the Last Man Standing match with Orton was horrendous. Seems as if the No Mercy main event woke him up. Yeah, I don't know what they were doing putting this match and the HBK match on this set.


Yeah, the comeback match at SS 07 was pretty bad, but I'm guessing they included it because of the importance of him returning from a 2nd torn quad.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> HHH's pre-match promo is one of the best face promos he's ever cut.
> 
> "THIS IS A DANGEROUS BUSINESS. RANDY ORTON. GET READY TO GET HURT"
> 
> ...


:mark:

edit I like the HHH/HBK HIAC as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is that with Goldberg/Jericho.

Thought that match was really good, but hey im a mark for both so.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Is that with Goldberg/Jericho.
> 
> Thought that match was really good, but hey im a mark for both so.


Yes it was & that match was excellent, just like HBK/Flair & HIAC.

I even had fun with Steiner/Test & Dudleys vs Mack/Nowinski.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Haven't seen the HBK/Flair match from BB 03. 

I know your brother really likes HHH/Nash, doesn't he? At least for the Foley involvement.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH & Nash actually have okay chemistry if I do say so myself. Four high profile singles matches and my ratings for them;

Judgment Day 2003 ~ *DUD*
Insurexxion 2003 ~ ** 1/2*
Bad Blood 2003 ~ **** 1/4*
TLC 2011 ~ **** 1/4*

Yeah. I like the last two bouts alot more than normal.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Haven't seen the HBK/Flair match from BB 03.
> 
> I know your brother really likes HHH/Nash, doesn't he? At least for the Foley involvement.


You could have watched it when you were here man 

I think he just enjoys it because it's a good match haha, Foley is just a bonus.



> Judgment Day 2003 ~ DUD


That match really isn't that bad, that whole show isn't as bad as it looks either.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I DESPISE that Judgment Day match.

Event has The Stretcher match & Eddie/Tajiri Vs Haas/Benjamin. It passes.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Their TLC match is actually a DUD for me, their JD one is a decent **1/2 oone


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I DESPISE that Judgment Day match.
> 
> Event has The Stretcher match & Eddie/Tajiri Vs Haas/Benjamin. It passes.


You left out the bikini contest :homer


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually dont like hbk/flair I if you can believe it

The best hhh/hbk is probably the 96 match IMO


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching The Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. :lol Talking about the programs with Rude and Andre. Everyone just shitting on Warrior, and we're only 35 minutes in. 

Warrior did seem pretty reckless with slamming Heenan at Mania.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd love to see Cody's reaction to Ziggler's hot tag on Raw


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Watching The Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. :lol Talking about the programs with Rude and Andre. Everyone just shitting on Warrior, and we're only 35 minutes in.
> 
> Warrior did seem pretty reckless with slamming Heenan at Mania.


They updated it and released a new one called Always Believe that they interviewed warrior for. Much better and it's nice to hear his side of events.

The reason I said I could know all I needed to know about you if you said you prefer Condrey over Lane is exactly that. Lane was the better worker but for my money Condrey added WAY more entertainment value and character work in his matches. Obviously I'm a fan of both, but if I had to choose, it's Condrey>Lane, each and every day. His shenanigans from the apron just added a ton to that team. Obviously the brilliant ring work of Beautiful Bobby was the reason that team succeeded and drew the money it did, but Condrey helped give that team a better heel edge than Lane did.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'd love to see Cody's reaction to Ziggler's hot tag on Raw


I missed it. Was it Bryan-esque?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone seen this House Show match:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> I'd love to see Cody's reaction to Ziggler's hot tag on Raw


Paramore fan skipped it because it had The Usos.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ I found that a few months ago zep, I told a friend about as well, decent match, I love house show gems


I didnt watch the 6 man tag last night as well


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ZOMG look what's in tapings for NXT next week:



Spoiler: NXT



Ohno vs Harper



:mark:



The Lady Killer said:


> I missed it. Was it Bryan-esque?


Sort of actually. The whole match was hot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: Super pumped for SHIELD Vs RHODES on Sunday. That's one match I'll definitely not be skipping on the PPV. Will watch the main event too for Bryan. Not expecting much from it though. Will likely skip everything else.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, Battleground seems nearly as bad as NOC on paper, but I think SHIELD/Rhodes Bros could be the show-stealer. Bryan/Orton might be good if there's an actual finish, and ADR/RVD could be decent due to the stip. ADR has proven to be pretty good in an aggressive environment, and well, we all know RVD = ECW ECW ECW ECW.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Expecting a ton from Shield/Rhodes. ADR/RVD could be pretty good I think. I'm only curious to see how they finish Bryan/Orton. I'd really like to see Triple H actually screw Bryan out of the title, something I thought would happen at Battleground. 

I honestly have no idea what other matches are on the card, except the RANDOM AS FUCK Sandow/Ziggler match on the pre-show. Poor Ziggler. Top 5-7 match this year two months ago for the WHC and he's on the pre-show now.

Edit: I forgot about Punk/Ryback. That's whatever.



> They updated it and released a new one called Always Believe that they interviewed warrior for. Much better and it's nice to hear his side of events.


I don't think that's a WWE-produced doc. Just something someone on YouTube did.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

There's the Bella/AJ match, and apparently they might be adding Wyatt/Kofi and/or Axel/Truth (*shudder*).

Plus, there's Punk/Ryback. Does Ambrose not have a match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

GOAT vs. Big guy is my sleeper pick for MOTN. Ryback is starting to put things together, and Punk is king against big bullies.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If Orton doesn't win the title on Sunday, my interest in the storyline will pretty much die out. Finally he stopped looking like a pussy last night when he destroyed Bryan fairly without any cheap tactics. That and The Shield match are the only ones I care for.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did anyone at all cared about me spoiling the happening of


Spoiler: NXT



Ohno/Harper


?

:side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rhodes vs Shield sounds fucking amazing.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF I care. Pumped for it, tbh. 

NXT DELIVERING THE GOODS


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> ATF I care. Pumped for it, tbh.
> 
> NXT DELIVERING THE GOODS


I second this. 



For Battleground, I expect Del Rio vs. RVD to be a lot of fun, Punk/Ryback will be interesting to see without a gimmick. Bryan/Orton I expect to set up Hell In A Cell, don't see Bryan walking away with the belt. 

Shield vs. Rhodes has most of my interest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF Rebellion 2001*




*Christian Vs Edge - WWF Intercontinental Championship Steel Cage Match*

OLD SCHOOL CAGE :mark:. Because apparently it was easier to bring over to the UK than the normal one .

IC title is on the line, even though Christian already has the European title. Who does he think he is, HHH?

Who the fuck set up the cage? I swear it's wonky.

One thing I do like about the old school cage is how it looks like it ACTUALLY HURTS when someone gets smashed into it. The newer mesh cages have too much give and doesn't look painful at all. Here they are just smashing into METAL BARS.

The fuck? Edge just hit a Spear... that didn't look shit? HOLY FUCK!

Standard stuff from these 2, which isn't very good unfortunately. I liked the finish at least with Edge tying Christian's feet together through the cage while he was close to winning. With Christian tied up, Edge was free to escape.

A disappointing showing from these 2 as usual. Maybe that ladder match will be good this time around. Probably not though.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Oh look, it's Chavo Guerrero Jr. He's so shitty he's not even wrestling tonight. He's interviewing divas. Hugh Morris claims he is interviewing divas. They agree to do it together. They walk into the divas locker room and walk in on Trish topless. Sadly she's facing the other way then covers up. Well that was pointless. Just like Chavo Jr's career!


*Scotty 2 Hotty Vs The Hurricane*

You know WWE take the WWF PPV's seriously when we get a SCOTTY 2 HOTTY match!

Surprised they didn't save this one for WM. Imagine this in front of 68,000 fans in the Toronto SkyDome! Hogan and Rock's reaction would look like shit!

OMG DUDLEYS VS HARDYS VS APA for the tag titles later tonight :mark:. Oh yeah, these 2 are having a match. They do moves and stuff. Why is the WCW referee's shirt grey? Weren't they white before? Did he wash it with his black referee trousers and the colour came out or something?

"THE HURRICANE MOCKING SCOTTY'S WORM!!!"

Everything following the Hurricane's attempt at a Worm is good. Unfortunately that's the only part of the match I cared for. And it was the finish :lmao. Scotty wins with his Worm.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Back with Trish (clothed now. BOOOOO) and the jobbers. She's gonna get Lita for them for an interview. BRA AND PANTIES! BRA AND PANTIES! FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

DDP. His Positively Page gimmick was hilarious.


*DDP Vs The Big Show*

Heyman: "He helped me get over my sarcasm!"

JR: "It's not working..."

Heyman: "IT'S NOT? I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!"

So this is fucking FUN as shit. Show uses his size and power to dominate DDP. DDP takes some crazy shots from Show. Tries to go after the leg of the giant, but fails because Show is just big and powerful. DIAMOND CUTTER~! CHOKESLAM~!

:mark:

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Back to the jobber perves. They walk in on MIGHTY MOLLY. She screams because they caught her WITHOUT HER CAPE. Those monsters!

:lmao at Angle. Even turning heel and joining the Alliance he's still a total goofball.


*The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The APA - WCW Tag Team Championship Elimination Match*

:mark:

I hope the Hardy Boys are eliminated first, but I know they won't be .

APA rock the fucking world in this until they get eliminated . They don't give a shit if it's the Dudleys or the Hardys. SPINBUSTERS. CLOTHESLINE FROM HELLS. STIFF SHOTS. SUPER FALL AWAY SLAM.

And then Matt fucking Hardy pins Farooq . I WANT MORE APA!!

"D-VON JUST ATE HIM SOME WOOD". What a puff 8*D.

Jeff takes a pretty good beating from the Dudleys. Mainly Bubba. How did I not see the greatness in Bubba all those years ago? I always thought he just got good in TNA when he reinvented himself as Bully Ray. Nope. Guy was always fucking great.

Hot tag comes and man oh man, things go from good to pretty freaking awesome. These guys know how to do a finishing stretch. 3-D! Dudleys retain the belts.

Man, how consistent were The Hardys, Dudleys, and even E&C (broken up at this point I know) in tag matches in 2000 and 2001? Very rare we got anything less than fun from them. This was good. APA ruled too. If only they lasted longer!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Video package showing the implosion (continued) of Rock and Jericho. TEST PINNED THE ROCK AND WON THE TAG TEAM TITLES . And damn, how much of a CUNT is Rock in all this? Still never understood how he was ever a face lol. He's such an unlikeable twat! 


*William Regal Vs Tajiri*

Loved Regal's theme music around this time. Sounds so classy yet EVIL at the same time.

:mark: Regal Vs Tajiri. Oh man this should rock the fucking world.

I can fap to this.

My god THOSE KICKS. Everyone needs a little Tajiri in their lives. RIGHT NOW.

KNEE TREMBLER~!

MORE KICKS~!

REGAL STRETCH~!

This was fecking awesome. Can't wait to watch their Survivor Series match again too :mark:.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Chris Jericho Vs Kurt Angle - WCW Championship Match*

Jericho is the WCW Champion. Somewhere in the world Eric Bischoff is crying .

Early stuff with Jericho in control is pretty damn good tbh. Then Angle hits an OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY and he gets in control, and does a good job too. SUPLEXES~!

Angle goes for the Walls of Jericho, but Jericho is able to counter before Angle can lock it in. One thing I've noticed a few times during my PPV ramblings is that Jericho does a great job of showing that the Walls is HIS hold and he knows exactly how to counter it so it can't be used against him. More people need to protect their finishers like that tbh. Then it would be more meaningful when someone STEALS it.

Fun little finishing stretch, and the roll up out of an Angle Slam attempt was nice too. Better than just doing a basic sunset flip type roll up out of it.

Really good match. I enjoyed it a bunch. Their best match together probably.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Lita & Torrie Wilson Vs Stacy Keibler & Might Molly - Special Guest Referee Trish Stratus*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

LITA JUST CAME TO STACY~!

Damn, nice... REVERSAL by Molly to counter the Poetry in Motion attempt by Lita! Didn't matter in the end though as a Twist of Fate put an end to Molly.

This was... fairly decent. And fap worthy.

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Steve Austin Vs The Rock - WWF Championship Match*

These 2 had an absolute classic at WM earlier in the year. This... well unless I think it's good on this watch, is far, far away from being a classic. I remember this being utter trash.

Shitty brawling. [/review]

Seriously. That's pretty much ALL this match is. Rock's punches have never been what I would call great, but damn, he fucking SUCKS here with them. Austin doesn't really seem on top of his game either. Did LOL at him jumping on the turnbuckle and flipping off the fans though :lmao.










:lmao then Austin flips off Henber and he flips him off right back. Then Austin flips off all the fans again :lmao. Yep, so far Austin flipping fans off has been the best parts of this match.

Fuck me, this is DULL. Shitty brawling followed by REST HOLDS. Wake me up when this one is over, please. Or just let me sleep for a while. Then I can wake up all refreshed and watch something GOOD instead.

Urgh, that ref bump is HORRIBLE. Rock goes to clothesline Austin. Austin ducks. Rock puts his arm down... then PUTS HIS ARM BACK UP AND CLOTHESLINES THE REFEREE. The fuck was that shit?

:lmao at Hebner selling it though. He's out cold half way out of the ring.

Fuck me, that Sharpshooter from AUSTIN. Makes Rock's version look good. THINK ABOUT IT. That's just how bad Austin's is here.

:lmao then Rock reverses it into his own Sharpshooter than makes the one Austin just applied look like Bret Hart's :lmao.

Angle shows up. Chair to The Rock from behind. Jericho shows up, grabs the chair and takes out Angle. Rock gets up and thinks JERICHO did it and attacks him. ROCK BOTTOM TO AUSTIN. No referee still. LOL. Suck it, Rock.

Angle is back in. And then out again.

People's Elbow is stopped by Angle. Title shot to the head. Stunner. Austin retains. Yey!

Wow. This is worse than I remember. Last 2 minutes or so are pretty good as far as interferences go for a finish. Everything else was bad or dull or both.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9*​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hebner is the most annoying piece of shit ever, he is soo annoying and takes the focus away from the match so many fucking times


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hebner's two-counts are the worst. If there's anything that makes me go 'I now the match isn't over', it's that prick and his shitty two-counts.



Callamus said:


> When the fuck does Finlay and Hardy arrive?  And where the fuck is Henry? He had like 1 match in April and I ain't seen him yet .


They get drafted over. During the DRAFT, which is in, I wanna say June....?

Henry probably got injured for a month b/c he's Henry.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

June? :mark:

Just gotta wait for the month of June to download. This guy seems to have a slower upload speed than me, and my upload speed is shite. Also, UK peoples, anyone else having tons of problems with XWT these days? Loads up for me maybe once a day, won't let me connect to torrents and shit, even though the site is online according to downforme site. I can only get it to work properly if I change my IP to a US address (got bless my VPN, allowing me to stay anonymous and bypass IP blocked content).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

All I know is, I remember Finlay absolutely ruling in 2008. He had matches with Regal, Chuck Palumbo, JoMo, Matt Hardy, Mark Henry, Evan Bourne, Shelton, and maybe 1 or 2 other guys that I can't remember, and 90% of the time he knocked it out of the park, when he was given time to do his thing. I don't think he starts mixing it up with Henry in ECW until the end of the year, so if you want Cal, maybe start in December and work you way backwards?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd love to start from December but unfortunately June is as far as the guy has gotten uploading ECW 08 .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I'd love to start from December but unfortunately June is as far as the guy has gotten uploading ECW 08 .


Well then, damn. Stuff doesn't really start getting decent until the late summer early fall. 

Wanna know what's absolutely jarring? Go from watching a Finlay vs Henry match to watching Bret Hart vs 123 Kid from Raw. That's a hell of a match, but going from 2 of the most stiff and strong style wrestlers ever to the 123 Kid makes it seem like they are just play fighting, not wrestling. I'm all for protecting each other in the ring, but nothing is better than when 2 guys have that level of respect for each other and they just go and knock the absolute shit out of each other, ala Benoit and Jericho/Eddie or Finlay and Regal/Kane. It just adds a level of believability and intensity that you don't see a lot today.

Speaking of stiff, I'm bored so I popped in the Best of IYH set. About to dial of the Final Four with Taker/Bret/Austin/Vader. This is a doozy, absolute madness for 20+ minutes. 1997 was an amazing year for PPV matches. So much goodness.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Started watching Vengeance 01. HIP HOP HIPPO. That is all.

Regal Vs Edge :mark:.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm all for protecting each other in the ring, but nothing is better than when 2 guys have that level of respect for each other and they just go and knock the absolute shit out of each other, ala Benoit and Jericho/Eddie or Finlay and Regal/Kane.


What's/when's Regal/Kane? I don't really think Kane's ever been a remotely stiff worker. He has a nice uppercut every 50th match I guess.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane has a nice uppercut in EVERY MATCH actually . But that's the only time he comes across as STIFF~! to me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> What's/when's Regal/Kane? I don't really think Kane's ever been a remotely stiff worker. He has a nice uppercut every 50th match I guess.


You read it wrong sir, I was saying Finlay when he goes against guys like Regal or Kane and Benoit when he goes against guys like Jericho and Eddie. The only reason I said Kane right there was because I just watched the Belfast Brawl between Finlay and Kane yesterday, and that is definitely a hard hitting match. One of my all time favorite Kane matches, for sure.

Kane has eased up over the years, but in his matches with Mankind, Stone Cold, Benoit, etc....he definitely would go all out with them.

Why did Finlay have to retire before we got to see him vs Cesaro? That seems like a match made in heaven. Unless they had a match on the indies I'm not aware of....

Speaking of, how was the Cesaro vs Sheamus match from Main Event back in June? I never got around to seeing that and when I saw it in the summary I got all psyched then totally forgot to watch it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

its in my MOTYC top 10 cactus


Just watched flair/Orton cage again, holds up very well, probably my favorite cage match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> I'm not sure if I could think of a comp that I would want to watch less than that one. Other than maybe a comp from another identical team that has more matches than the Midnight Express comp.


Talk about an unpopular opinion.  It's ok though, we know you don't like the old school southern style tags.



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Watching The Self Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior. :lol Talking about the programs with Rude and Andre. Everyone just shitting on Warrior, and we're only 35 minutes in.
> 
> Warrior did seem pretty reckless with slamming Heenan at Mania.


Pretty underrated doc, I'd say. Kept me entertained all the way through but yeah, everyone shits on him throughout. I fuckin LOVE when they talk about his promos. Made me laugh so hard.



Cactus Jack said:


> Why did Finlay have to retire before we got to see him vs Cesaro? That seems like a match made in heaven. Unless they had a match on the indies I'm not aware of....
> 
> Speaking of, how was the Cesaro vs Sheamus match from Main Event back in June? I never got around to seeing that and when I saw it in the summary I got all psyched then totally forgot to watch it.


Unfortunately Claudio (Cesaro) and Finlay never squared off. The closest we got is when they were both entered into the 2011 PWG Battle of Los Angeles, but Finlay lost in the first round to Kevin Steen (but that's ok though because Steen & Generico had one of the best matches in company history in the finals). Claudio would go on to tear it up with ol Sami Zayn in the 2nd round as well. What a fuckin show that was...

Anyway.  Yeah Sheamus/Cesaro is great. High end *** 1/2 from me. So much manliness in one ring.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Pretty underrated doc, I'd say. Kept me entertained all the way through but yeah, everyone shits on him throughout. I fuckin LOVE when they talk about his promos. Made me laugh so hard.


I've only watched his matches with Rude at Summerslam (both years) and I already hated him. That promo when he debuted in WCW :lmao 

I hope he never shows up in WWE. With Trips taking power, I think it's less likely.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I've only watched his matches with Rude at Summerslam (both years) and I already hated him. That promo when he debuted in WCW :lmao
> 
> I hope he never shows up in WWE. With Trips taking power, I think it's less likely.


So you've never seen Hogan/Warrior from Mania VI or Warrior/Savage from Mania VII? Oh buddy, you're in for a treat.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

EUROPEAN UPPERCUTS

I checked this out more for Alex Wright b/c of him being a topic elsewhere. Regal was sooooo good per usual during this though. Wright held his own. He really does like to use those uppercuts. That's his mode for transitions in matches. At least as a babyface. I need to watch some heel work atm and see if it remains.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Apparently Cesaro goes into beast mode again on Main Event this week.

I barely remember much of Alex Wright's heel work. Was he a heel as part of the Dancing Fools? What about against Pillman? I remember the crowd hating him in that awesome match, but I don't think he was a heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was a heel with Disco, yeah. But he originally went heel in 1997. He popped back up after being off of Nitro for ages _(months)_ and started displaying a more "cocky" side. Not long after he'd be full heel. Although that didn't actually mean he did much in the ring to let this be known. Except for dancing mid-match. Which got under the fans skin. 

He was WAY babyface vs Pillman at GAB. Pillman was in fact showing his edge around that time as he'd go heel sooner in '95 as his frustration mounted. Crowd being pro-Pillman was simply by happenstance of preference. Best part of that night was Arn being super over per usual and fans not caring about The Renegade.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at that Renegade match. Crowd went crazy when Arn hit the spinebuster. As they should, because Arn is king.

I watched a few Barbarian squash matches today. This one specifically was actually very good.





I don't know how you would justify his non-squash singles matches though. I tried watching his match against Ron Simmons from Halloween Havoc 92 again, but it was one of the most boring matches I have ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He just has that quality I have fun with. Is anyone else a big fan of Ray Traylor? b/c I really, really enjoy him too. But I know some could find a few of his control segments boring too. I enjoy the big man methodical style. Smash em up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm the complete opposite; big bruiser methodical control segments just don't do it for me most of the time unless if there's some trash talking in there :henry1. I loved Vader's feud with Bossman in WCW though; probably Vader's most underrated feud. Their match at Spring Stampede is hideously underrated. Traylor is also one of the few guys that actually got me to enjoy a Hogan match. Not just one Hogan match either; those dudes had chemistry.

Didn't like any of his Attitude Era matches though. And his tag team with Bull Buchanan was stupid. Bull Buchanan also apparently knew how to do a hurricanrana according to WWF No Mercy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE BOSS and/or THE GUARDIAN ANGEL. Yeah, those smash em up matches were legit. Hogan vs Twin Towers was some fun stuff. Then again, I've said it numerous times, I'm a Hogan supporter too. He's seriously not bad at all. Was in WCW, but he just didn't give a fuck for a large portion of his time there.

Well it's the Attitude Era. I'm pretty much with ya there. Even the talented guys had stinkers. Oh that Bull Buchanan. He's one where I'm not sure I enjoyed anything he did. His leg drop was brilliant & his leap up lariat were cool, but that's about it. Work in Japan never popped out to me either.

Thoughts on Umaga?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Prior to visiting this thread, I thought Umaga was just another typical hoss that had a terrible gimmick. Boy was I wrong. I never saw the Cena matches before, but not only did the RR match surprise me, but so did the awesome NYR match. Then I watched the Jeff Hardy matches. Then I watched the underappreciated CM Punk Judgment Day/Smackdown matches. Then I became a believer in Youmanga.

Jerry Blackwell. Now there's another good big bruiser. Not a fatty, but Ernie Ladd was a delight to watch too. Best big man bumper I have ever seen.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It always confused the fuck outta me that there were two guys named The Barbarian. John Nord originally and of course the one you're now talking about. Why would they do that us?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Prior to visiting this thread, I thought Umaga was just another typical hoss that had a terrible gimmick. Boy was I wrong. I never saw the Cena matches before, but not only did the RR match surprise me, but so did the awesome NYR match. Then I watched the Jeff Hardy matches. Then I watched the underappreciated CM Punk Judgment Day/Smackdown matches. Then I became a believer in Youmanga.
> 
> Jerry Blackwell. Now there's another good big bruiser. Not a fatty, but Ernie Ladd was a delight to watch too. Best big man bumper I have ever seen.


Oh heck yes, the NYR is really awesome. Gets lost from some b/c they jump strictly towards the Rumble match, but you can't sleep on their first collision. Only match(es) of his I was let down by during his tenure was vs Batista. I know Dave was never the greatest at all times, but two big dudes smashing each other should have worked. Instead they showed to have next to no chemistry with each other in both matches. Umaga actually ended up working much better with the smaller chaps. Normal worker vs big beast combo worked out so well; specifically with Hardy. Goodness. Those were magic. GAB '07 rocks my socks.

Jerry Blackwell, that massive bruising fatty. Bless him. I know the Big Cat well, however I'm having a hard time piecing together any memory of his work. Hmm. Maybe I'll do a quick run through of some of his stuff.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> It always confused the fuck outta me that there were two guys named The Barbarian. John Nord originally and of course the one you're now talking about. Why would they do that us?


If it means anything to you, Barbarian was originally known as "Konga The Barbarian" so I'm guessing by his decision with or without a booker he had the former dropped. Before that he was "King Konga" so you know, different territories are always going to breed that type of ordeal. I miss territories. Even though that's basically what the indies are nowadays.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I just watched The Self Destruction of Ultimate Warrior for the first time and man, I can't believe the lengths WWE went to bury this guy :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Haven't watched this yet, however I shall. It's 2004 so perhaps Gallows isn't AS good as he'll be in a few years to come, but I'm rather excited to say the least.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Alim said:


> I just watched The Self Destruction of Ultimate Warrior for the first time and man, I can't believe the lengths WWE went to bury this guy :lmao



I think it's funny that when they decided to mend fences with Warrior, they redid the documentary, took out most of the negative stuff, and replaced with with an interview of Warrior himself. I prefer the original though because watching Christian make fun of his promo style was just priceless.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was re-released? Goodness this fact eluded me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember it ever been re-released with Warrior. Especially considering they've only JUST got back on good terms with the guy a few months ago for the new video game. I'm sure someone in here said it was just a fanmade project.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was gonna say...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some pretty great stuff getting put on XWT today. BIG 2004 pack with all Raw's, SD's and PPV's as well as a few special shows (Troops etc). And then HEAT 2004 too (missing one show), and the guy has Velocity too :mark:. Downloading HEAT just now lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I got the New Japan PPV from Sunday and that was it. 8*D 

I really should be looking at some packs to score on there during the freeleech, but eh. Most of what I need it actually up on youtube & dailymotion in pretty good quality and unedited so I'm fine.



ATF said:


> I'd love to see Cody's reaction to Ziggler's hot tag on Raw





funnyfaces1 said:


> Paramore fan skipped it because it had The Usos.


Just saw these posts...

I watched on Monday. Didn't think the match was too engrossing on the whole, but Dolph was prime. Of course he was the hot tag b/c it sure as hell couldn't be an Uso doing the work. Dolph getting crushed by the SPEAR was the biggest highlight of the match, tbhayley. Rollins taking the Zig-Zag the way he did looked boss as hell too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I don't remember it ever been re-released with Warrior. Especially considering they've only JUST got back on good terms with the guy a few months ago for the new video game. I'm sure someone in here said it was just a fanmade project.




Really? That's not surprising at all, the way they cut some thing's and went back and forth between WWE documentary and interview was pretty sloppy at times. It still comes together like a normal documentary, his interview segments go to together perfectly with the WWE shot documentary, it's just they do some hard cuts that leads me to believe you are right, it's fan made. Still worth watching though, it's a lot better than a one sided hour and a half burial of a guy who, let's face it, was a pretty huge name in the late 80s and early 90s.

You can find it on YouTube, it's called Always Believe:The Ultimate Warrior Story or something to that effect.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"Parts of Warrior's 2005 shoot interview mixed with segments and clips from The Self-Destruction DVD to create a positive documentary on one of the iconic Superstars in the history of professional wrestling."

Yep, fan made for sure haha. Plus I have the actual shoot interview on my PC where the Warrior parts come from . And just think, the documentary WOULD have been positive have Warrior agreed to do it, but h turned them down so they shit all over him :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, that Warrior doc was made by a member on here - Vic Capri, its in the Multimedia Section.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Plus, it's funnier that the doc shat all over him. We'll probably never get another set like it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shame they never did a Russo doc a few years ago. That would have made for a hilarious SHITTING ON RUSSO doc. Now he's on decent terms with them .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Make one that's shitting on him and have him still on it. Sort of like the Rise & Fall of ECW where some of the talent seemed to blame Paul, then Heyman's own reason for why ECW folded was completely different.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Russo claims in his WCW 2000 Timeline that he's done with interviews for good, so we probably won't get one by WWE with him on it .

Just got RR 2010 Bluray in the post. Yeah, the event is pretty shitty outside of Christian/Zeke and Undertaker/Rey, but it was CHEAP as fook and I needed it for my RR BR collection. Got it on DVD already, but I like having both RR and WM on BR when available . And hey, bonus disc is good. Raw and SD stuff from the go home shows. SD has HBK/Rey which is good (though overrated), Punk/HHH (probably their best match, but still only around *** at best) and I *think* Drew/Morrison which was good too. Also waiting for the Hardy Boys DVD too. The one with a separate documentary for each of them. Don't recall the documentaries being too good but there are some sweet matches on the set as it mainly focuses on their singles stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Just saw these posts...
> 
> I watched on Monday. Didn't think the match was too engrossing on the whole, but Dolph was prime. Of course he was the hot tag b/c it sure as hell couldn't be an Uso doing the work. Dolph getting crushed by the SPEAR was the biggest highlight of the match, tbhayley. Rollins taking the Zig-Zag the way he did looked boss as hell too.


I commented that cause you jizz all over the traditional Tag formula 

Speaking of that, have you seen Benoit & Hardys/MVP & MNM @ NWO?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Not in a good while, although I recall really, really liking it. All the variables are there and I can only see it standing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer? The fuck?! 

Yeah, stands well the test of time. Fast-paced and super well balanced. One of 07's most underrated masterpieces.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Russo claims in his WCW 2000 Timeline that he's done with interviews for good, so we probably won't get one by WWE with him on it .
> 
> Just got RR 2010 Bluray in the post. Yeah, the event is pretty shitty outside of Christian/Zeke and Undertaker/Rey, but it was CHEAP as fook and I needed it for my RR BR collection. Got it on DVD already, but I like having both RR and WM on BR when available . And hey, bonus disc is good. Raw and SD stuff from the go home shows. SD has HBK/Rey which is good (though overrated), Punk/HHH (probably their best match, but still only around *** at best) and I *think* Drew/Morrison which was good too. Also waiting for the Hardy Boys DVD too. The one with a separate documentary for each of them. Don't recall the documentaries being too good but there are some sweet matches on the set as it mainly focuses on their singles stuff.




The documentary is OK, don't like how it tries to paint Matt as some how the superior Hardy as far as ring work goes. That notion sailed away in 2008 for good, when Jeff became one of the bossiest baby face workers the company had. Its not horrible by any means, very entertaining and it's cool to see how they morphed through the years from absolute jobbers/KoR court jesters to one of the greatest tag teams WWE has ever had. The match selection was really my reason for getting it, some real winners on there.

Edit- Speaking of underrated tags, Brothers of Destruction vs Finlay/King BOOKAH is where it's at. The Kane set really picks up after the first disc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I find the time to watch it today, I will. Got it on DVD at my place, so shouldn't be a problem to find twenty minutes to give to that match.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

My god this RAW was amazing. I am reliving 1997 and 98 and am nearing the end of 98 and I just had to post this PPV quality show. If anybody is stupid enough to think the Rock was always a comedy character. Watch his freaking promo here. Absolute douchebag of a heel LOL. Stone Cold, Undertaker, Kane, Mankind, and Vince were fantastic as usual. Damn cool Hell in a Cell match. Brawl for All Final as well. A+++++.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Greatness of the day.

This is just as good if not better than the 3/29/2004 match HHH had against Benjamin, but I've never heard this bout talked about ONCE here. Tajiri is boss and HHH hits one of the greatest double A spinebusters I have ever seen. HHH wrestling while his face is covered in the green mist is :lol too. HHH in 2004 doe = <3. **** 1/2*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> Speaking of, how was the Cesaro vs Sheamus match from Main Event back in June? I never got around to seeing that and when I saw it in the summary I got all psyched then totally forgot to watch it.


Don't listen to Evan and his silly *** 1/2. It's a spectacular heavyweight brawl



Spoiler: write-up



*Antonio Cesaro Vs Sheamus (05/06/2013 WWE)*
★★★★+
_
I'm usually not as high on Sheamus as most but both men were fantastic with Sheamus making Cesaro's offence look potent, while Cesaro bumped well for Sheamus. Cesaro was relentless in his attempts to lock in the chicken-wing on Sheamus' injured shoulder (thanks to a nasty ringpost bump), and managed to counter every signature attempt by Sheamus in this process. That is, though, until The Celtic warrior went for a play out of the norm by reversing, at haste, to drop Cesaro onto the turnbuckle from the White Noise position as Cesaro struggled to undo the arms and pick into the chickenwing, again. I, also, actually wanted to buy into Cesaro winning with his Neutralizer if he hadn't gotten slightly cocky in setting it up.

Right now, there are no wrestlers alive that stand out as worker of the year anywhere near ***** Casas or Antonio Cesaro. I'd still give Casas the one-up, but I've yet to see a performance from either man that isn't, at least, good. Five whole months into the year (as well as counting the number of matches they've put on) and that becomes a truly impressive feat. No matter what WWE do with Cesaro, I can't be disappointed in them not using him in good match-ups, at least. I'd love for a Bryan/Cesaro bout, but it looks like NXT may very well deliver a seperate classic in Sami Zayne/Cesaro.

Oh, WWE, you're so awesome._​






The Primer said:


> Haven't watched this yet, however I shall. It's 2004 so perhaps Gallows isn't AS good as he'll be in a few years to come, but I'm rather excited to say the least.


Not going to stop plugging this until at least someone has watched this:


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I never saw Cesaro-Sheamus .

Evolution Vs Benjamin/Tajiri/Edge Next :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why hasn't anyone watched Cesaro vs Sheamus? WHY?

Tajiri vs Trips got me so excited that night. Thought Tajiri could get the W.

Roger that, Rah. Glad you reposted it, actually.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watched this match after it was recommended to me on YouTube. Good to see WWE uploading full length matches to their channel. A real fun match here, filled with your typical exciting spots you expect with ladder matches, with some being standard spots, and others quite innovative such as when RVD uncharacteristically showing his power by military pressing Christian onto a ladder followed up by a standing moonsault. Christian took the brunt of the punishment in this match, with the most nasty looking spot being when Christian falls from a ladder after RVD dropkicks it and Christian falls in a bad way, but Christian is still able to sell the fall to perfection. Christian is relentless with keeping his title and stops RVD's five star frog splash attempts twice, but ends up getting hit by an epic five star off the ladder on the third time, which is enough to put Christian finally away and RVD becomes the new Intercontinental Champion. I enjoyed the simple storytelling in this match of two men going all out and putting their bodies through a ton of punishment on free TV for the Intercontinental title, something like this you would never see today with the IC Title and it's sad how far the midcard titles have fallen. It's a treat to watch PPV quality matches on a simple RAW episode, but we would get many of them years ago. What happened to ladder matches on RAW? You never see them anymore, you rarely see a cage match on free TV anymore, or a street fight etc, variety makes everything better and having midcard titles defended in big matches like this again would bring more attention back to them and it would make more people care about them again.

I'd give this match ****3/4*.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> *Why hasn't anyone watched Cesaro vs Sheamus? WHY?*
> 
> Tajiri vs Trips got me so excited that night. Thought Tajiri could get the W.
> 
> Roger that, Rah. Glad you reposted it, actually.


Because Main Event nowadays is a total shell of its 2012-early 2013 self and nobody gives a total fuck about it anymore.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was never a good show. But Sheamus vs Cesaro is signed, that's enough to give fifteen - twenty minutes of devotion towards. Meanwhile yahoos are watching and putting over the second Cesaro vs Kingston match as if it was great. The wrong Cesaro match was viewed by more folk. This world. I tell ya.


----------



## will94 (Apr 23, 2003)

Full list of content for the RAW 20th Anniversary DVD. I'm relatively disappointed with this listing.


> DISC 1
> Raw Facts and Figures (Special Feature hosted by Michael Cole and the Bella Twins)
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PUNK VS HENRY. YES.

The complete lack of 2004 makes me sick though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAW Roulette. That's what I have to look forward to. Despite owning that TLC match on a set that's been out when Chris Benoit was still living.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Benoit is fucking there *:clap



The Primer said:


> It was never a good show. But Sheamus vs Cesaro is signed, that's enough to give fifteen - twenty minutes of devotion towards. Meanwhile yahoos are watching and putting over the second Cesaro vs Kingston match as if it was great. The wrong Cesaro match was viewed by more folk. This world. I tell ya.


It WAS a good show. Just that it died... predictably at that.

The world outside of this thread is mad. I've seen Eddie/JBL called "one-sided melodramatic bullshit with a horrid ending". I've seen many claim "wrestling is pure entertainment, gimme spots, fuck slow and dramatic soap-opera storytelling". Flair/Shawn was called Match Of The fucking Decade. Some have called Angle/Benoit RR a match that "if you don't like, Idgaf about opinions, you're not a wrestling fan.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Format left a lot to be desired from the start. Good opening match on some nights followed by total jobber second match the next. Well, I did forget how the short match was originally used to built up next week's "Main Event". I did like that. Too bad the matches they had at the start failed to capture some interest. Recall Big Show vs Orton being awful, who cared about another crummy Miz vs Kofi match, & there was a six man that was really boring. Among some others. Good matches always felt few and far between. Ziggler vs Miz was really awesome though. That's like the 2012 match that sticks out the most for me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Show was far from awful. Show was in his awesome late 2012 run, he ruled that match ripping Randall apart. And the ME concept itself was executed very well, being the most fun hour in all the weekly shows.

Miz/Ziggler is indeed legit awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never got into it. Nor did it ever come close to being the best or my favorite WWE show ever. Not once.

Show vs Orton was bad, but their first match from Smackdown prior to that match was WAY more shit. And it was shorter. Don't know what in the heck happened there. Gosh that was so bad. Big Show is 99% rad his whole career, except for those matches. I know why.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That 3/25/10 raw is that raw I pimp the orton/hhh and hbk/y2j from, needs more 2004 for my taste but tis ok

Is there two cesaro/sheamus me ? If not Ive seen and am very high on it, its in my top 10 MOTYC list


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main Event first followed by the sprint on Smackdown. Too lazy to look up dates, but if you know the first (Main Event) the rematch isn't far behind.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> I never got into it. Nor did it ever come close to being the best or my favorite WWE show ever. Not once.
> 
> Show vs Orton was bad, but their first match from Smackdown prior to that match was WAY more shit. And it was shorter. Don't know what in the heck happened there. Gosh that was so bad. Big Show is 99% rad his whole career, except for those matches. I know why.


Raw in Feb. 2012 was even worse than SD. The one with the botched RKO.

Orton and Show never had that much chemistry with each other. And no, Show wasn't 99% rad. His 2004, sans the stuff with Cena and Angle = uneventful. And his 2005? Just not good.
:show


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That makes up for the 1%. 18 years and only a handful of bleh events. That's a damn good margin. He's the man.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea both a pretty good with ME being better


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

By a hair, yeah. All three of their matches are :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Any of you kinda fellas know the date to this miz/ziggler ME ? Or the date ?


Off-topic I click on the thread and say to myself "Who the hell is The Primer"


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*cough*stuffwithEdgeandKanesuckedtooespeciallyBacklash06*cough*



Speaking of suckage, I've seen some actually not-mad Youtubers' claims on the HHH/Poppa feud that, while it does take two to dance, HHH does deserve only about 10% of the blame. I agree. He bumped squares and circles, left from right, he wrestled and killed himself pretty much. To those who say blame is 50/50 (like Cody :side, take in consideration that 2003 Trips did try ALL he could. He failed, but he at least tried hard.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah must've got me confused with Evan, as my name is Corey and I gave it *** 1/2. 

-----------------

I'm definitely asking for that RAW set for Christmas. Although as a whole it's a little disappointing, there's WAY too much good looking shit to pass up on it. Shawn Michaels vs. Goldust? Did I catch Bret Hart vs. Goldust? Oh HELL YES. Punk vs. Henry? :mark: Flag match in '97!? Deal! Plus there's a bunch of other intriguing matchups that I don't remember in the slightest. Punk/Hardy/Edge 3-way? Yeah I'm askin for it.



Nostalgia said:


> Just watched this match after it was recommended to me on YouTube. Good to see WWE uploading full length matches to their channel. A real fun match here, filled with your typical exciting spots you expect with ladder matches, with some being standard spots, and others quite innovative such as when RVD uncharacteristically showing his power by military pressing Christian onto a ladder followed up by a standing moonsault. Christian took the brunt of the punishment in this match, with the most nasty looking spot being when Christian falls from a ladder after RVD dropkicks it and Christian falls in a bad way, but Christian is still able to sell the fall to perfection. Christian is relentless with keeping his title and stops RVD's five star frog splash attempts twice, but ends up getting hit by an epic five star off the ladder on the third time, which is enough to put Christian finally away and RVD becomes the new Intercontinental Champion. I enjoyed the simple storytelling in this match of two men going all out and putting their bodies through a ton of punishment on free TV for the Intercontinental title, something like this you would never see today with the IC Title and it's sad how far the midcard titles have fallen. It's a treat to watch PPV quality matches on a simple RAW episode, but we would get many of them years ago. What happened to ladder matches on RAW? You never see them anymore, you rarely see a cage match on free TV anymore, or a street fight etc, variety makes everything better and having midcard titles defended in big matches like this again would bring more attention back to them and it would make more people care about them again.
> 
> I'd give this match ****3/4*.


Pimp this match all the time. Absolutely love it, **** for me.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

YOU HAVE EVANS IN YOUR NAME. You people confuse me with your shoot-names and such. Is there an Evan?



ATF said:


> The world outside of this thread is mad. I've seen Eddie/JBL called "one-sided melodramatic bullshit with a horrid ending". I've seen many claim "wrestling is pure entertainment, gimme spots, fuck slow and dramatic soap-opera storytelling". Flair/Shawn was called Match Of The fucking Decade. Some have called Angle/Benoit RR a match that "if you don't like, Idgaf about opinions, you're not a wrestling fan.


I'm busy swinging my way through the top Japanese matches of 2000-2009 and I've gone through two women's matches that are dogshittingly bad. Considering this list should be going through some pretty quality users, and should reflect the best matches of the decade, I'm surprised such fans of Joshi would give such tripe. There are some amazing opinions out there just waiting to be read.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

WWE posted on their YT channel the 8 man tag match from SD 10 Year anniversary. Gotta rewatch that


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I was watching the Womens Title match from Armageddon 2003 & the commentary on that match is so :lmao King & JR are trying to figure out if Molly is sexually frustrated :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I forgot Taker was 'ABA Taker' before he returned in 2000 






Also didn't realise HBK/Van Dam had a match lol:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great to see Benoit is on the Raw set, too bad it's no more than two shows and neither are among his best work. Wish they had included the one with the ironman match. Too bad they decided to include repeats instead and trash like the "pipebomb" show that was uneventful and boring with the exception of Punk's part and the tornado tag.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at RAW 199 making the set. Despite having a beautiful main event, it was often considered to be the most disastrous episode ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw set looks shite. Most of the Raws are only good for one thing, and petty much all of the "one things" have been released before.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah, not getting the RAW set,maybe the 25 year set will be better 

Will probably be buying history of the WWE, best of RAW and SD, and Best PPV matches.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

"Pipebomb" raw was pretty good while the pipebomb. The tornado tag and the hbk/punk segment were pretty good, forget punk/kane though


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, the Torondo Tag was awesome :lol

Sorry


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wasnt the best speller in school :hayden


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

found this gem






Naitch making warrior look like a million bucks


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> *cough*stuffwithEdgeandKanesuckedtooespeciallyBacklash06*cough*


I really don't mind the Backlash match except for the comical finish. It's just two dudes smashing each other like you'd expect. Big Show vs Edge? Good grief those matches are a blur. Really don't remember how any went. Seven singles matches too. Got one lined up in 2008. Hmm. Edge's '08 has been really poor so far. Hope working vs Show in one of his best years can help make a difference.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> I really don't mind the Backlash match except for the comical finish. It's just two dudes smashing each other like you'd expect. Big Show vs Edge? Good grief those matches are a blur. Really don't remember how any went. Seven singles matches too. Got one lined up in 2008. Hmm. Edge's '08 has been really poor so far. Hope working vs Show in one of his best years can help make a difference.


I dont know what the exact reasons are, but edge appeared to have let himself go in 2008 a bit. The difference in his body and stamina between 2006 and 2008 is pretty noticeable. He was straight cut in 2002-2006. Outside of the two GLORIOUS matches he had with Taker at WM and SS (and some claim Taker carried him at Mania, I disagree) I can't remember too many things standing out the way 2006 does, atleast for me.

What else did he do in 2008 that was really noteworthy? I'm drawing a huge blank.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Edge started to get out of shape in 2007 already. How fitting that it happened around the Rated RKO time when Fat Randy was being entertaining as fuck.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I actually enjoyed Edge/Mysterio quite a bit at the 08 rumble. That spear!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I dont know what the exact reasons are, but edge appeared to have let himself go in 2008 a bit. The difference in his body and stamina between 2006 and 2008 is pretty noticeable. He was straight cut in 2002-2006. Outside of the two GLORIOUS matches he had with Taker at WM and SS (and some claim Taker carried him at Mania, I disagree) I can't remember too many things standing out the way 2006 does, atleast for me.
> 
> What else did he do in 2008 that was really noteworthy? I'm drawing a huge blank.


Taker totally carried him at Backlash though. Edge was quite poor during that one. Other matches from 2008 _(so far)_ that are good:

w/Chavo vs Mysterio & Punk - 1/18

vs CM Punk - 1/25

w/Ryder & Hawkins vs Undertaker - 3/7

vs Shoichi Funaki - 3/21 _(this one is probably my favorite, tbhayley)_


I'm onto Judgment Day build and watched most of the PPVs already. So not much to talk about and he takes time off from SummerSlam - Survivor Series. The Triple H match from GAB isn't bad, but it isn't exactly too special either. Still better than a lot of other matches he'd have it seems. Which is a moral victory as I pegged that match to be straight up crap.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually was not a big fan of the 1/25 Punk match, although I would put much of the blame on Punk who was just completely out of it and sloppy that night. I really liked their April match that year much more. My pick for best Smackdown television match in 2008 I guess you can also count the Armageddon triple threat in his list of good matches in 2008 and MAYBE his Vengeance match. Can't really think of much else, especially since I didn't like any of the B-PPV Undertaker matches. I never realized how boring and "empty" Edge's matches can get. It felt as if he just didn't know what to do in the middle portion of a match.

EDIT: How is it possible to be both a BtBaM and a Paramore fan?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Another good Edge match from 2008 is the TLC match with Taker at One night stand, a good *** 3/4- **** match there IMO


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Another good Edge match from 2008 is the TLC match with Taker at One night stand, a good *** 3/4- **** match there IMO


Don't say that here. You're going to get crushed by everyone, including myself.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

you guys dont like that TLC match? Okay, maybe **** is too high, but its lat least *** 1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

gonna pretend I did not hear that smitty


I'll check out those punk/edge now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Taker vs Edge TLC is poor.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Okay, it might need a rewatch, since its been a while, I swear I remember it being fun

anyways watching the older Hart doc/set, match set looks awesome, vs perfect KOTR and SS, vs austin WM 13, vs Owen Hart Mania 10 and a 1996 match I havent seen, some fun early tags, vs Steamboat, vs Dibiase,two matches vs Bulldog SS and a IYH match, vs taker ONS, and a WCW vs Benoit match. 

Thats orgasmic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hart Foundation vs Killer Bees is superb.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ho ho ho, we have found someone who likes the Edge vs Taker TLC match???!! The fucks wrong with you???

Nah I'm just kidding, I don't like it, really at all, but I'm not about to shit on someone for liking something out of the ordinary in here. Like what you like my dude don't let people try to convince you you're opinions are wrong. That's for those other idiots that populate the General WWE section.

I'm not sure what other peoples opinions in here are, but I DO absolutely LOVE the Taker vs Jeff Hardy TLC match from Raw. One of my favorite bits of storytelling involving the Deadman. He was absolutely awesome in that one, as was Jeff (that match sold me on Jeff as a legit singles guy).

Edit- Hayley's got it right, Harts vs Killer Bees is impeccable, however I give the slightest of edges to Harts vs Bulldogs from MSG. Both are in my favorites for tag matches though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea dont change your opinion because others say so

is HHH/goldust raw any good ? its on the wwe YT channel


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I haven't met a single person that didn't like Taker/Jeff. What can you criticize about it anyways?

Harts vs. Killer Bees is really good. The tag division in general was at its absolute peak during the late 80s. Rockers + Hart Foundation = GOAT.

EDIT: Never seen HHH/Goldust from RAW, but I remember them having a match where somebody randomly farted on commentary. I think it was Mania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Hardy Ladder match is a front-runner for MOTY in 2002. Excellent match. One of my all time favorites.

Only competition it has are various other Undertaker matches or most of SummerSlam 2002. I love that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Best thing about this Bret set is that their is not a SINGLE Hart/HBK match, unless you count the Hart foundation/Rockers tag match, which probably is decent

Speaking of Hart/HBK, thoughts on the SVS 1992 match? I think its their only good match, Maybe *** 1/4?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In the same sense that you are probably the only person here that likes Undertaker/Edge TLC, I think I'm the only one that really liked SvS 92 Hart/HBK. Match never dragged or felt boring to me, but Bret is my all-time favorite, and Shawn is #5. I am most certainly biased.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wasnt to high on it, Shawn didnt get into his singles swing yet, svs 97 is great though, love the actual match


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nothing those two had in singles is worth seeing.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I can admit that the Edge/Taker TLC is very flawed, but I can still really enjoy watching it, as I do with most of that show. ONS '08 is one of my favorites.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Which Hart/Perfect is better? KOTR or SS? I've heard good things about both


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Depends. Both are great so it's a matter of "take your pick". I'm a bit more towards the SummerSlam match myself. Think that one is relatively flawless. Can almost be certain that it's my most watched Bret Hart match that wasn't vs Owen.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So I'm the only one who's truly excited for the RAW set, ay?



Rah said:


> YOU HAVE EVANS IN YOUR NAME. You people confuse me with your shoot-names and such. Is there an Evan?


Yes. Evan is Corporate KingOfKings.



The Primer said:


> I really don't mind the Backlash match except for the comical finish. It's just two dudes smashing each other like you'd expect. Big Show vs Edge? Good grief those matches are a blur. Really don't remember how any went. Seven singles matches too. Got one lined up in 2008. Hmm. Edge's '08 has been really poor so far. Hope working vs Show in one of his best years can help make a difference.


Edge & Show had a WWE Title match on Smackdown the week after Survivor Series '02 that was pretty fun until Brock ran out and ruined it. He was suspended the next week by Stephanie. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: Never seen HHH/Goldust from RAW, but I remember them having a match where somebody randomly farted on commentary. I think it was Mania.


I think that was Rumble '97. Never faced each other at Mania. Decent match but nothing too special.



smitty915 said:


> Best thing about this Bret set is that their is not a SINGLE Hart/HBK match, unless you count the Hart foundation/Rockers tag match, which probably is decent
> 
> Speaking of Hart/HBK, thoughts on the SVS 1992 match? I think its their only good match, Maybe *** 1/4?


I was pretty bored by it. Shawn insisted on using nothing but chinlocks and rest holds. Maybe ** 1/2 tops.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ahh that Owen match, so good...

I think Bret Hart is #2 all time for me , with only flair being better 

1: Ric Flair
2: Bret Hart
3: Macho Man
4: HBK
5: Mick Foley

6-10 would include Dibiase, Steamboat, and Taker


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Edge & Show had a WWE Title match on Smackdown the week after Survivor Series '02 that was pretty fun until Brock ran out and ruined it. He was suspended the next week by Stephanie.


:mark:

I'm amazed someone else pimped this match out. It's really freaking good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anytime, sharkboy. (Y)

---------------------

I hope we can get a Smackdown 15th Anniversary dvd next year with a completely new theme. Maybe 'Smackdown 15th Anniversary: The Forgotten Classics' or something like that where it's nothing but 3 discs of unreleased tv matches. I'd be happy with a 15 greatest episodes theme too...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, that was their first match I read. It's 2002 so I expect Show vs Edge to be quite fun.






WWE fails so hard at trying to have Eddie go heel in 2003. Makes me chuckle. Oh yeah and this match is awesome. Obviously.

Also watched Dragon vs Malenko from Starrcade '96 and I'd say it holds up. Dragon's comeback from the Malenko control segment could look as if he was no-selling the leg a tad, but it came back into play later in the match so it truly wasn't too bad. Fact it mattered is what made it passable. It was more about Dragon just trying to conjure up his own offensive flurry in the comeback, despite falling to his hurt legs towards the end. Then he wins clean via Dragon Suplex showing it didn't matter anyways. :hmm:

Fun sidenote: Malenko does a brainbuster here that makes Eddie Guerrero, El Generico, Jushin Liger, Tomohiro Ishii, etc all envious. Instant DEATH.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ glorious, but expected from those two, these hhh/goldust matches on WWE YT channel arent that good

loved punk/edge 1/25, laugh at those who say he sucked in the wwe until 09


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think that Punk comment comes from more of him being more of a random American version of a Japanese Junior wrestler & guy with a Straight Edge lifestyle. That's all. Which, for those familiar, was a bit of a turn off. I had no gripes, but of course come 2009 with the Straight Edge gimmick flourishing, he grew to be much more in his WWE career.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea he does have a "random guy" vibe to him back then, but LOVED when he just kicked the shit out of ppl, last time I saw that from Punk was otl with bryan ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk's 2008 is very underrated, although this is coming from the neighborhood Punk mark. He didn't have a classic match that year, but he had lots of good ones and very few bad ones. Doesn't compare to his 2009-2013, which was when he became the best overall talent in the company bar none, but his 2008 is nothing to scoff at.

Malenko/Dragon from Starrcade is a beauty. Malenko was always a great babyface. Actually, he was one of the best I have seen. Something about the silent "iceman" character worked more for me as a face since there is so much likable about a humble guy that focused on getting the job done. As a heel, Malenko often felt too forced and often resorted to just doing random submissions. I love the Malenko/Bret match where Malenko shows every wrestler in existence how to properly sell legwork.

Can't wait to get to Malenko/Dragon's rematch during my COTC project. Unforunately, I don't recall liking that match too much on my most recent rewatch. Did it feel sorta empty for anybody else?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wonder which match was my favorite from Punk in 2008. Off the top of my head it could be the Armageddon match vs Mysterio. I'd have to relive the series vs Jericho and see how those match up. His first Smackdown match vs Morrison was really strong too. Once those two found their niche, it was something that always clicked.

Forgot I'm big on the Batista match from GAB.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can't wait to get to Malenko/Dragon's rematch during my COTC project. Unforunately, I don't recall liking that match too much on my most recent rewatch. Did it feel sorta empty for anybody else?


Ultimo's no selling after Malenko did so much legwork was extremely frustrating and bogged it down for me. It's a good match but many other folks overrate it as they look past the no selling.

Assuming we're talking about their match from Clash 34.

EDIT: Looked back at my old review and saw I gave it ***.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

big fan of GAB punk/batista, Corey told me to watch their series a couple weeks ago and it didn't disappoint


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ultimo's no selling after Malenko did so much legwork was extremely frustrating and bogged it down for me. It's a good match but many other folks overrate it as they look past the no selling.
> 
> Assuming we're talking about their match from Clash 34.
> 
> EDIT: Looked back at my old review and saw I gave it ***.


We certainly are talking about that match. I think the no-selling might be why the match felt so empty for me. I love me some Ultimo Dragon, but it's been a long time since I binged on him, so maybe I never noticed his no-selling before. It would break my heart if I rewatched his matches and noticed such a crucial flaw. I'm looking at the COTC 34 card, and it actually looks like a good show. Maybe I found a hidden gem event of the nWo era.

Punk also had the Regal stuff in 2008, a couple nice JBL matches, a very good Kane match on ECW, a tag match with Matt Hardy against Miz/Morrison, a tag match with Mysterio against Edge and Chavo, a few Jericho matches, the JBL/Jericho "handicap" match, one or two decent Chavo matches, a couple fun tags with Kofi, and a match against Cody Rhodes that nobody has ever talked about.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just watched Ut.dragon/mortis nitro 8/11/97 :mark: now on too eddie/dragon slamboree 98


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Regal in 2008. Forgot there were actually two little matches in the Spring & Summer. I just watched the KOTR finals not long ago too. I have no idea how the Rhodes match is. Haven't seen it since it aired, but I was big on it back then. Two favorites duking it out and all. Plus there was a fun eight man tag around that time too. Punk, Mysterio, Bourne, & shithead vs Kane & Legacy.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No one really brings it up but the Tag Title match where Punk & Kofi beat Legacy is actually really good. Complete without commercials on Punk's set.



funnyfaces1 said:


> We certainly are talking about that match. I think the no-selling might be why the match felt so empty for me. I love me some Ultimo Dragon, but it's been a long time since I binged on him, so maybe I never noticed his no-selling before. It would break my heart if I rewatched his matches and noticed such a crucial flaw. I'm looking at the COTC 34 card, and it actually looks like a good show. Maybe I found a hidden gem event of the nWo era.


Well, hate to crush your hopes but the event is shit.  Dean/Ultimo is MOTN, Eddie/Norton could've been SO much more but it only goes 5 minutes (same exact sentence can be said for Benoit/Sullivan too and both matches are still fun), and I guess Luger/Hall is watchable but that's not saying much.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ah dammit. Oh well, at least there's a Masahiro Chono match on there. I recall there being two specific Chono matches in WCW that I had fun with because of the commentary. One involved Dusty and Bobby making fun of Tony for specifying the nation that moves came from, and the other one consisted of Tony going insane over a Mafia Kick.

Oh, c'mon Paramore fan. You're gonna call the modern day Tito Santana a "shithead"?

I kid, I kid. Tito Santana was immaculate. Somebody ought to do a project on him. Not a Yeah1993 project; something very big and structured revolving around all the awesome stuff he did.

Can't believe I've never seen the Savage/Perfect vs. Flair/Razor tag match from SvS 92. This better be amazing considering who is in it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can't believe I've never seen the Savage/Perfect vs. Flair/Razor tag match from SvS 92. This better be amazing considering who is in it.


Ugh, I'm gonna have to do this again... It's not. It's actually rather boring. Snippet from my SvS '92 review:

Ric Flair & Razor Ramon vs. Randy Savage & Mr. Perfect - ** 1/4

- Well the tag match was incredibly disappointing. For the most part it was just boring isolation on Savage. Toss in a crappy ending and it accomplished nothing.

The opening tag match from that show is honestly better and it's basically a squash. 

EDIT: I'd like to apologize for my HHH/Goldust comment earlier. They did in fact face off at Mania 13, which I was entirely unaware of.


----------



## Vader (Jul 31, 2006)

Hopefully this happens on Sunday.

http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/x3ntrc_triple-h-in-goldust-s-attire-clothe_news


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Vader said:


> Hopefully this happens on Sunday.
> 
> http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/x3ntrc_triple-h-in-goldust-s-attire-clothe_news


Dat Game. Also, Michael Cole said that Stone Cold/Big Show's match that same night was the biggest match in the history of Raw. :kobe8


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Ugh, I'm gonna have to do this again... It's not. It's actually rather boring. Snippet from my SvS '92 review:
> 
> Ric Flair & Razor Ramon vs. Randy Savage & Mr. Perfect - ** 1/4
> 
> ...


Bah, is there a single match that I should watch tonight before sleeping? I have the good Rude/Chono match on tap, but I want to watch a match from the late Golden Era/New Generation Era that doesn't get the respect it deserves. Something like the awesome opening tag from SvS 95.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I've watched 8 matches tonight I'm done lol , funnyfaces watch hbk/flair vs. bret/savage soo good


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of Tags, I hope y'all have watched Shawn & Diesel/Razor & 123 @ Action Zone. *Classic*.


----------



## mattributes (Feb 6, 2013)

Digging through my collection today and stumbled across one I completely forgot about. How many here have seen Death Before Dishonor IV which hosted the ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death? If you haven't it is really worth picking up. A lot of stars in this one in Bryan Danielson(Daniel Bryan), Claudio Castagnoli(Antonio Cesaro), Chris Hero(Kassius Ohno), Samoa Joe, Homicide, Ace Steel(Punks trainer), Adam Pearce, Necro Butcher, Eddie Kingston, BJ Whitmer, and even Nate Webb who almost steals the match. Brutal Wargames type match where the Philly fans are nuts and the action is non stop. Also nice is the announcers just completely shut the hell up and let the action talk. It's actually a killer ROH card all the way through with snippets throughout chronicling the build of the ROH/CZW feud. Don't want to spoil it but it is a killer show with a great main event that hits the right balance of having bloodshed but not the ridiculous CZW way of doing it. Worth picking up if you're a fan of either of those promotions or just want to see how some WWE stars were before they made it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Oh, c'mon Paramore fan. You're gonna call the modern day Tito Santana a "shithead"?
> 
> I kid, I kid. Tito Santana was immaculate. Somebody ought to do a project on him. Not a Yeah1993 project; something very big and structured revolving around all the awesome stuff he did.


Don't really get the analogy. Feels like much too large of an insult. But you say you're kidding so all is right with the world.

His lumberjack match vs Valentine > everything else by the shithead.  _(well, damn near)_



ATF said:


> Speaking of Tags, I hope y'all have watched Shawn & Diesel/Razor & 123 @ Action Zone. *Classic*.


(Y)



mattributes said:


> Digging through my collection today and stumbled across one I completely forgot about. How many here have seen Death Before Dishonor IV which hosted the ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death? If you haven't it is really worth picking up. A lot of stars in this one in Bryan Danielson(Daniel Bryan), Claudio Castagnoli(Antonio Cesaro), Chris Hero(Kassius Ohno), Samoa Joe, Homicide, Ace Steel(Punks trainer), Adam Pearce, Necro Butcher, Eddie Kingston, BJ Whitmer, and even Nate Webb who almost steals the match. Brutal Wargames type match where the Philly fans are nuts and the action is non stop. Also nice is the announcers just completely shut the hell up and let the action talk. It's actually a killer ROH card all the way through with snippets throughout chronicling the build of the ROH/CZW feud. Don't want to spoil it but it is a killer show with a great main event that hits the right balance of having bloodshed but not the ridiculous CZW way of doing it. Worth picking up if you're a fan of either of those promotions or just want to see how some WWE stars were before they made it.


Whole feud was perfection, tbhayley.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> Whole feud was perfection, tbhayley.


Even though you haven't watched the Cage Of Death match yet


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just picked up Backlash 2002 (UNDERTAKER VS AUSTIN IS GREAT DAMMIT SCREW YOU ALL), King of the Ring 2001 (THAT STREET FIGHT) and New Years Revolution (ELIMINATION CHAMBER) FOR £10. Together! :mark: Ebay has KOTR 01 on it's own for over £25, and the same for just the tagged classics version (with Invasion of course). BARGAIN~!


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe..._20th_Anniversary_Box_Set_-_All_12_Discs.html



> - Courtesy of WrestlingDVDNews.com, here is the full content listing for WWE's "RAW 20th Anniversary Collection" box set. It hits stores on December 3rd.
> 
> DISC 1
> 
> ...


----------



## OML (Feb 14, 2009)

^ is that real? If so holy fuck that's awesome.. Been to two of those the 15 anniversary and one at msg


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already posted yesterday .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just curious.

Is there anybody out there who takes the Rock/Austin series over Cena/Punk at this point?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Awfully disappointed in that listing. #1 they chose to pick a bunch of shows that had 1 memorable aspect instead of ones stacked with great matches and great segments. #2 they left out 2004, one of my favorite years for the red brand. Ugh WWE.

I had my girlfriend over and made her watch Eddie vs Rey on Smackdown 2005 because my thinking was if she doesn't like that match, she's hopeless and will never like wrestling. After about 5 minutes she said "Geeze, that guy with the giant bruise on his hip is a MAJOR asshole. How come he's your favorite wrestler??". That Eddie, his heel work in 2005 was out of this world.

I'm trying to get her to like it merely as an excuse to watch more wrestling when she's around so I don't have to keep missing Raw and Smackdown to take her out. So far I have shown her HiaC Foley vs Taker so she would stop thinking wrestling was "fake" and understand it's merely staged, big difference. So maybe she could gain some respect for how difficult what they do is. Have any of you had any luck converting girlfriends into wrestling fans?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Mine IS a wrasslin fan. As much as I am, actually. Fucking lucky I am 
C2D will love to know her favourite wrestler was Krispin 



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Just curious.
> 
> Is there anybody out there who takes the Rock/Austin series over Cena/Punk at this point?


Depends. If we're talking segments, promos and overall impact included, it's Rock/Austin for my money (though Cena/Punk is pretty damn close too). If we're talking just matches, it's Cena/Punk by a fucking country mile (though Rock and Austin did have their hits - WM 17, 19 and Backlash).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Just curious.
> 
> Is there anybody out there who takes the Rock/Austin series over Cena/Punk at this point?


Nope.



Cactus Jack said:


> Awfully disappointed in that listing. #1 they chose to pick a bunch of shows that had 1 memorable aspect instead of ones stacked with great matches and great segments. #2 they left out 2004, one of my favorite years for the red brand. Ugh WWE.
> 
> I had my girlfriend over and made her watch Eddie vs Rey on Smackdown 2005 because my thinking was if she doesn't like that match, she's hopeless and will never like wrestling. After about 5 minutes she said "Geeze, that guy with the giant bruise on his hip is a MAJOR asshole. How come he's your favorite wrestler??". That Eddie, his heel work in 2005 was out of this world.
> 
> I'm trying to get her to like it merely as an excuse to watch more wrestling when she's around so I don't have to keep missing Raw and Smackdown to take her out. So far I have shown her HiaC Foley vs Taker so she would stop thinking wrestling was "fake" and understand it's merely staged, big difference. So maybe she could gain some respect for how difficult what they do is. * Have any of you had any luck converting girlfriends into wrestling fans?*


My girlfriend has no problem watching RAW with me from time to time but it's not like she's a fan or anything. She knows who a lot of people are and always make comments about something. Yelling 'Excuse Me!' when Vickie came out used to be our thing.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Just curious.
> 
> Is there anybody out there who takes the Rock/Austin series over Cena/Punk at this point?


Rock/Austin would take the cake as being better in terms of entertainment and segments (as ATF mentioned) but match wise I'd give it to Punk/Cena. I wouldn't go so far as to say its by a long mile or anything though. The two respective feuds have had great matches and not so great matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

There's only two Punk/Cena matches that I'd consider to be less than great, both running less than five minutes so it's NBD.

I was speaking strictly from a match standpoint, however from an overall #1 Vs #2 in the company both are special feuds that can never be duplicated no matter how hard they try. Just how Rock/Austin is THE rivalry of 99-01, Punk-Cena is THE rivalry from 11-13 with some sequels likely in the works. They need a Wrestlemania match to really drive this home I think, but most fans get the point.

When it comes to entertaining me in any form, barely anything tops Punk/Cena. Magnificent series.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> There's only two Punk/Cena matches that I'd consider to be less than great, both running less than five minutes so it's NBD.
> 
> I was speaking strictly from a match standpoint, however from an overall #1 Vs #2 in the company both are special feuds that can never be duplicated no matter how hard they try. Just how Rock/Austin is THE rivalry of 99-01, Punk-Cena is THE rivalry from 11-13 with some sequels likely in the works. They need a Wrestlemania match to really drive this home I think, but most fans get the point.
> 
> When it comes to entertaining me in any form, barely anything tops Punk/Cena. Magnificent series.


True.

Good point on the two and Mania too. Punk/Cena really should have had a Mania bout by now.

Since you mentioned it, was one of those less than five minute bouts the one where Cena made Punk tap in mere minutes? I always thought that was pretty crazy. Especially now looking back at it considering their history.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Three minute match for the 2009 Slammy Awards "Superstar of the Year" mini tournament. Fucking atrocious booking.

This was in the early stages of Punk's epic late 2009-2010 BURIAL that he somehow recovered from. 

2-16 (of his last 18) on PPV heading into the MITB 2011 match. Yet was hotter than ever. TALENT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

my ex gf didnt even know I was a wrestling fan I think, and I dont own any DVD so it was easy, I remember one day I didnt text her all day the sunday of summerslam and she texted me like 4x (leave me alone woman) during punk/lesnar and I tossed :lol

KLiq action zone tag is awesome, so is hart foundation tag as well


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For me, MitB, Raw 2013, NoC, and SS >>WM15, WM17, BL, Rebellion, WM19. Rebellion was a borderline DUD, WM15 was not very good, BL, 17, and 19 I'd categorize as GREAT. None of the Rock-Austin matches get the "full 5" from me, only WM19 comes close with ****1/2. I give MitB 5 stars, and the match they had on Raw this year is damn, damn close. If it wasn't for Punk-Lesnar, that would be my MotY.

So yea, Punk and Cena rule the world in the ring. If WWE is unwilling to give us our dream matches of Punk/Bryan for the WWE title and Cena-Taker for the Streak at Mania, I hope they give us Punk-Cena and Bryan-Taker at Mania, with Brock facing Orton or maybe Sheamus if they build him some after he comes back.


----------



## PepeSilvia (Sep 11, 2013)

WWE needs to produce:

Best of the WCW Cruiserweights DVD

-Benoit wasnt a Cruiserweight so they can put out a 100% pure badass DVD. 

- Rey can be the host like DDP is on the best of Nitro.

- Think about how many badass cruiserweight matches were on WCW PPVS from 96 to 99. Unreal 

- WWE can even pull from ECW if they think WCW doesnt have enough footage....eddie and rey were in ECW. Paul E. says he brought 
the cruiserweights to America, so why not be inclusive


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I've been stuck on the 3 main event title matches from Vengeance 01 since yesterday. Just can't bring myself to sit through them. Austin/Angle just seem to have lost their magic that they had only a few months ago. Jericho/Rock, even though they had a couple of good matches just doesn't interest me. And then Jericho/Austin? Don't know if I can be arsed to sit through that either lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin vs Angle is kind of boring on that show. idk what in the heck happened 

I'm big on Jericho vs Rock, however. Loved all three of their PPV matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wai u change name and what it its meaning?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why? idk, felt like a change again. Meaning: PHILOSOPHICAL stuff towards the new age.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Just curious.
> 
> Is there anybody out there who takes the Rock/Austin series over Cena/Punk at this point?


Hell naw! Only Cena/Punk matches I really rate are MITB and Raw from this year. And neither of them do I consider as good as WM19, let alone WM17. 



ATF said:


> Mine IS a wrasslin fan. As much as I am, actually. Fucking lucky I am
> C2D will love to know her favourite wrestler was Krispin


You're definitely lucky. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> Why? idk, felt like a change again. Meaning: PHILOSOPHICAL stuff towards the new age.


I DON'T LIEK IT CHANG IT BACK!



> Royal Rumble Match
> Royal Rumble • January 24, 1988
> 
> WWE Championship Match
> ...


3 matches announced for the upcoming History of the WWE set. Shame they are wasting space with a RR match... and a shitty one at that. Don't remember much about Rock/HHH. Guessing its not the awesome one with HBK as referee superkicking Rock in the middle of a people's elbow and screwing him out of the title? Or is it (they didn't mention special guest referee so fuck knows). Cena/Punk though? :mark: though what are the odds it doesn't make the best of Raw & SD set now?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Have to wait nearly three months before I can. 8*D

Well, I don't own any of those three matches so that's fine by me. Rumble is kind of a waste like you said b/c it takes up so much time. I'll wait for the entire listing to see if I should crap on it. At least we know Punk vs Cena is officially going to be released. I hope they had the version with the footage from the WWE APP. APP in all CAPS.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> 3 matches announced for the upcoming History of the WWE set. Shame they are wasting space with a RR match... and a shitty one at that. Don't remember much about Rock/HHH. Guessing its not the awesome one with HBK as referee superkicking Rock in the middle of a people's elbow and screwing him out of the title? Or is it (they didn't mention special guest referee so fuck knows). Cena/Punk though? though what are the odds it doesn't make the best of Raw & SD set now?


Cal, it's TOTALLY that match with Shawn kicking Rock and screwing Trips, from the first ever Smackdown. I'll never forget that date for some reason. 

And, on the subject of Punk/Cena vs Rock/Austin: While I rate the MITB (and Raw 2013 for that matter) higher than WM 19 between Rock/Austin, the WM 19 match is one of my favorite matches of all time because Hollywood Rock.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> You're definitely lucky. (Y)


Indeed. I jizzed on the inside when I saw her knowledge of this stuff (Y)

Her favourite match ever iirc is Bret/Krispin on the Owen Tribute Nitro. I think it's an overrated one (chick and I argue a little over it), but girlfriend favourite gon' be girlfriend favourite


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: I love that match for JUST the superkick moment. Anyone who interrupts the people's elbow is ok by me .

FIRST EVER SMACKDOWN aka the second ever SD after the Pilot episode in April .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PILOTS DON'T MATTER TILL THE SHOW IS PICKED UP, remember?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YOU DON'T MATTER.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NO, DAMMIT.

don't start sounding like McQueen now...


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Gonna watch Punk vs. Undertaker from WM29 in the library because I have a one hour gap between my classes today and no homework 

Or maybe I should watch Cena vs. Rock II... :troll :rock :cena5


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Gonna watch Punk vs. Undertaker from WM29 in the library because I have a one hour gap between my classes today and no homework
> 
> Or maybe I should watch Cena vs. Rock II... :troll :rock :cena5


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive only watched Taker/Punk once 

Still don't have Mania on DVD yet either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. Have to own it for that match alone. Still can't believe it happened. Nothing will top it until they give Sami Zayn the match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You only watched Mark/Phillip once zep?










rton2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't own WM yet either. Or RR from this year. Only ones I need for my collection, but as I keep saying, FUCK FREMANTLE AND THEIR FUCKING RIP OFF PRICES. Got both on my PC if I wanna watch them anyway (hell, got ALL WM and RR on my pc lol, needed them for my RR special and WM special videos... though the WM one never got made due to technical problems ).

Gonna try and attempt Vengeance 01 main events now. I guess. Get them out of the way, then I only have SS, SS, BL, NWO and NM left to watch I think. BL is a super fun show all round so no problems there. SS and SS have 2 epic matches that I'm willing to sit through any undercard crap that might exist (though SummerSlam has at least 2 undercard matches that I adore, fuck knows about SSeries cos I can't remember what's on it). NM I barely remember and NWO... eh, not a fan any more.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've watched it twice. Solid four is where it stands for me. Only match other than the opening tag that I've rewatched since Mania. The BROCK match blew me away much more.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

punk/cena BETTER be on best of raw/sd 13 

I loved that hhh/rock sd with hbk as the ref


Thinking about watching the 92 rumble right now, thoughts I know Ive heard great thing, but I dont remeber any from this thread


Edit: I may give punk/taker another watch, have seen it 3x and not NEARLY as high on it as most ***3/4 tops IMO


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 2001 is GOLD.

Far and away my favorite from 2001.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

WM 29 is the only event I've got on my computer, and I've watched Punk/Taker at least 14 times. Just can't get enough.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, SSlam 01 is fucking gold. Storm/Edge :mark: Jericho/Rhyno :mark: Austin/Angle :mark::mark::mark:

Though *NADA* beats 2002.

Btw, does 2013 qualify as a Top 5 SSlam ever? :hmm:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> Thinking about watching the 92 rumble right now, thoughts I know Ive heard great thing, but I dont remeber any from this thread


***** GOAT RR.



The Primer said:


> SummerSlam 2001 is GOLD.
> 
> Far and away my favorite from 2001.


Hoping SS 01 holds up. Only thing is, I don't like Storm/Edge much, HATE the terrible pile of utter shite ladder match and don't think anything to Booker/Rock either. Angle/Austin is :mark: though, Rhyno/Jericho is :mark: and Tajiri/X-Pac is :mark: too so yeah.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

summerslam 2013 is the best ss IMO

3 great great matches
cody/sandow was good
kane/wyatt was a spectacle 

Hot crowd, felt very important, I was SOOO pumped for the ppv heading in to it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Now, Punk/Brock on the other hand, i've seen 3 times already and planning to watch it again soon :mark: Can't get enough of that match, i don't really buy PPV's now, but i may just get SS down the line (although i own the live PPV version at least).


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Btw, does 2013 qualify as a Top 5 SSlam ever? :hmm:


I'd say so. It's hard to match the quality of the triple main event, and while the opener wasn't a great match by any means, it was still fun to watch because it was an Inferno match. Sort of.

I was PUMPED heading into the PPV too. Probably the most excited I'd been for an event since WM28, perhaps even more so because I bought my ticket after the awesome post-MITB RAW in Brooklyn :mark:

***** for Punk's entrance at WM29 BTW unk6


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

scratch that this is my 4x watching punk/taker

my rating have gonna from ****1/4 to ****3/4 to ***3/4

:mark: :mark: Punk's entrance though


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2013 is a great event. Not too sure about top 5 but I'd probably have 2001, 2002 and 2005 above it. The former two are a complete BLAST to watch from beginning to end.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Seeing everyone rate SummerSlam 13 so high makes me so happy that I was there.

SummerSlam is easily my favorite SummerSlam I love everything on that show especially that 6 man tag :mark:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Summerslam 2013 was awesome. A great match in Christian-ADR, a MOTYC in Bryan-Cena and IMO, the MOTY in Lesnar-Punk. 

Rhodes-Sandow was also a good match for the time it was given.

BTW, WWE sent out a survey asking fans what they want to see as a new DVD and one of the options was 'best of bra and panties.'


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

So many Summerslam discussion and not even 2 months have passed since it took place. That awesomeness


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

RatedR10 said:


> BTW, WWE sent out a survey asking fans what they want to see as a new DVD and one of the options was '*best of bra and panties*.'


fpalm

Punk/Brock was one of those matches that had me on an emotional roller coaster. Brock with his tap out-teasing, Heyman being a GOAT, the brutal nature of that match. I'm not quite to the full ***** on that yet, but it was really, really, amazing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> ***** GOAT RR.
> 
> 
> 
> Hoping SS 01 holds up. Only thing is, I don't like Storm/Edge much, HATE the terrible pile of utter shite ladder match and don't think anything to Booker/Rock either. Angle/Austin is :mark: though, Rhyno/Jericho is :mark: and Tajiri/X-Pac is :mark: too so yeah.


I really really dig the opener & ladder so those only add to it. Least favorite match has always been Rock vs Booker, so I can understand that. Crowd eats it up, and cool for Booker that he got such a slot on the card, but DQ or not, that should have been the place for Austin vs Angle.

X-Pac vs Tajiri, Jericho vs Rhyno + that wild six man :mark:

I think I have to watch this now after I finish Judgment Day '01.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just so everyone knows, that HHH/Rock Smackdown '99 match is on the Smackdown 10th Anniversary set, so it's been released before. No problems with the '88 Rumble inclusion because I've never seen it and it's a cool novelty. Punk/Cena on the other hand is a touchy one because I just don't like repeats in such a short period of time. They did the same shit with their NOC 2012 match when they put it on the Best PPV Matches set and months later put it on the Top 25 Rivalries set. It's an amazing match no doubt but are you gonna put it on two different sets that come out in a 2 or 3 month span? I don't like that as a collector.



bodog19 said:


> WWE needs to produce:
> 
> Best of the WCW Cruiserweights DVD
> 
> ...


They've done something extremely close to this when they made _Wrestling's Highest Flyers._ Check it out if you haven't, it's pretty WCW dominant with a bunch of Rey, Eddie, & Ultimo.



redskins25 said:


> punk/cena BETTER be on best of raw/sd 13
> 
> I loved that hhh/rock sd with hbk as the ref
> 
> ...


The '92 Rumble is probably around the **** mark for me and my unpopular opinion is that I don't think it's the GOAT Rumble or ***** or perfect or any of that shit. It's definitely fun but there's no suspense in the ending and I'm not sure why people say that or feel so highly about it.



RatedR10 said:


> BTW, WWE sent out a survey asking fans what they want to see as a new DVD and one of the options was 'best of bra and panties.'


:lmao What a collection

----------------

Summerslam '13 is definitely a Top 5 Summerslam. 2002 is really the only one I can think of that had THREE genuinely fantastic matches (talking *** 3/4+ level) and then we got 2013. It's not superb as a whole but the bulk of it was incredible.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, even Kane/Wyatt (which, honest to death, I rated a DUD) had the positives of being a wild, rather fast-paced spectacle. The Divas match(es) were fun, Cody/Sandow was superfun, and DAT Triple ME :mark:

Irdk how one doesn't give this (or if not WrestleKingdom 7 either) the PPV Of The Year so far.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Honestly though, Kane/Wyatt was surrounded by fire..... I don't understand why people would expect a good match out of that. I wouldn't be worried about putting on a great match , id be more worried about GETTING BURNED. For real though. 

I expect their next match to be easily better. More face paced and more of an all out brawl


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah lol. Inferno matches aren't designed to give us GOOD matches. They are a sheer spectacle and nothing more. That been said it was a pile of utter shite and the worst Inferno match ever. At least the Undertaker/Kane matches were fun, Kane/HHH was fine for what it was and MVP/Kane was actually a solid match.

Anyway, SS 2013 with it's 3 great main event matches definitely puts it up high when it comes to SS events. 14 on the CAL SCALE from just those 3 matches alone. That's better than a great deal of PPV's overall. And honestly I get the feeling that if I watched Del Rio/Christian again it'd go higher.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

just went on wwe shop, I'm serious thinking of buying one of these pink shirts (dont judge) think the "WE the People" or Ziggler's version


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Del Rio vs Christian was indeed fantastic, I went WAY up on it after a second watch, I see it as being around ***3/4, with Bryan-Cena at ****1/2 and Punk-Lesnar at ****3/4. That said, I still have 2002 as being my favorite SS ever, it's just really hard to beat that. It has the second greatest opener ever with Angle-Rey (did you know Angle got his choice between Rey, Ric Flair, and John Cena for SS02' and he chose Rey :mark, the makings of a Super Duper Star in Brock-Rock, one of my absolute favorite Tags in UnAmericans vs Dusty BOOKAH, RVD vs Benoit, I mean how do you beat that? That Tag match is what makes me put SS02' over SS2013. Such a wonderful old school match. Can't say enough good things about it, probably a top 15 Summerslam match ever for me. Such a treat.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Not sure if its classed as underrated in here, but Benoit/RVD at SS'02 is fucking awesome.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Not sure if its classed as underrated in here, but Benoit/RVD at SS'02 is fucking awesome.




I'm surprised it got as much time as it did. Indeed an awesome match.... What wasn't awesome about SS 02!!??

Top 5 ppv of all time for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I'm surprised it got as much time as it did. Indeed an awesome match.... What wasn't awesome about SS 02!!??
> 
> Top 5 ppv of all time for me.


Well if your an American, Taker hoisting the flag up upside down....i think  

Even Taker/Test was decent.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Del Rio vs Christian was indeed fantastic, I went WAY up on it after a second watch, I see it as being around ***3/4, with Bryan-Cena at ****1/2 and Punk-Lesnar at ****3/4. That said, I still have 2002 as being my favorite SS ever, it's just really hard to beat that. It has the second greatest opener ever with Angle-Rey (did you know Angle got his choice between Rey, Ric Flair, and John Cena for SS02' and he chose Rey :mark, the makings of a Super Duper Star in Brock-Rock, one of my absolute favorite Tags in UnAmericans vs Dusty BOOKAH, RVD vs Benoit, I mean how do you beat that? That Tag match is what makes me put SS02' over SS2013. Such a wonderful old school match. Can't say enough good things about it, probably a top 15 Summerslam match ever for me. Such a treat.


I love how you went through all of that and didn't mention the best HHH/HBK match.  I'm in the minority but I think it's pretty incredible and gave it the full 5* on last watch.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I love how you went through all of that and didn't mention the best HHH/HBK match.  I'm in the minority but I think it's pretty incredible and gave it the full 5* on last watch.


Trips/Shawn at SS 02 is ****1/2 for me, and most certainly my favorite match between the two. The Raw match from Dec. 2003 is also really good. I'm way in the minority in that I also enjoyed the HIAC match, but submit to the argument that it's too long, and tries to hard to be an epic battle.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I love how you went through all of that and didn't mention the best HHH/HBK match.  I'm in the minority but I think it's pretty incredible and gave it the full 5* on last watch.


Ehhh, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one 

It's good, but I wouldn't quite give it "Great" status, especially in relation to the Matches I listed. I haven't seen this amazing Raw match that they had that Redskins always pimps, so I'd have to agree with you that it's their best match that I have seen. Now that's Not saying much because the other ones I've seen are 3 Stages of Literal Hell p), Literally Hell in a Cell, and Tribute to the Troops (what did the troops ever do to deserve such an awful match? I will never know). Also I've seen Taboo Tuesday, which I can't in good conscience judge as a normal match, because Shawn was so injured he couldn't walk and shouldn't have been wrestling period. I have nothing but respect for Shawn for doing what he did in that match to try to give the fans what they paid for (they voted him into the match so he felt liked he'd be ripping them off if he didn't atleast give it a shot). It was also a decent bit of storytelling, so I can't call it a dud like others do.

So yea, SS2002 HBK vs HHH is in the ***1/2 area for me. Still good, just not GREAT, which is anything I give **** or more. Maybe I should watch it again, as it seems like just about everyone loves that match and on paper I feel like I should too (HBK + Street Fight Stip should always = Winning). When I saw it live as a teenager, I probably would have rated it a billion stars just because seeing HBK back just made me so giddy. If you add in the back story in that HBK had not wrestled in 4.5 years, it's nothing short of astonishing how good that match is for such a long lay off. In Shawn's book he says the only thing he did prior to that match was run the ropes twice and take 1 back drop the day before. Some people just have a gift, I'll never understand how he was able to deliver a match of that caliber after not wrestling for almost 5 freaking years.

Edit-I feel like watching a Survior Series tag, what's you're guys vote for the GOAT Survivor Tag? I haven't seen all that many of them, and I'm drawing a blank as to what my favorite is (I remember 2003 ruling hard and HBK bleeding all over the place, so maybe that one?)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Triple H vs Shawn Michaels from SummerSlam '02 sucks.

snoozefest in the middle of a hot & near perfect wrestling event.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cody's a liar.

Cactus you pretty much said a lot of things I enjoy about that match. Shawn comes back after a 4 and a half year hiatus, gets the living hell beat out of him, then runs on pure adrenaline to perform the comeback of a lifetime. I also really enjoyed the array of weapons and spots they used throughout the match (as generic and childlike as that sounds). Some people argue that he no sold the back injury but I don't look at it that way. I buy into the adrenaline argument and the need for the man to steal the show one more time. The finish is BRILLIANT too. Desperation jacknife pin out of the pedigree attempt? Loved it. Also the SCM into the chair was awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Not sure if its classed as underrated in here, but Benoit/RVD at SS'02 is fucking awesome.


Their TV match from the month before also needs some love. It sucks that Benoit and RVD only faced off twice. At least they got to put on a show in singles competition properly, an opportunity Benoit never really got with Taker or Rey just to name a couple.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody speaks the truth.

Still not managed to watch the rest of Vengeance 01 yet :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never lie.

Ha. Oh Cal, way to Cal it up. I finished what I said I was going to watch: Judgment Day '01. Undertaker vs Austin is glorious. Legit remembered nothing about it. Certainly their best match together, I'd say. Got Fully Loaded '99 beat.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh wow congrats, you managed to watch a GREAT match. I am so proud of you. I'm stuck with Austin/Angle - magic + Austin/Jericho who never really had anything special as far as chemistry goes + a Rock match. No wonder I ain't getting this done!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HHH/HBK SSlam '02 is twice the match HHH/Lesnar SSlam '12 will ever be. :agree:

-----------------

Do all 3 of us agree on HHH/Kane from Judgment Day '01 being a pretty badass chain match?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> HHH/HBK SSlam '02 is twice the match HHH/Lesnar SSlam '12 will ever be. :agree:
> 
> -----------------
> 
> Do all 3 of us agree on HHH/Kane from Judgment Day '01 being a pretty badass chain match?


I agree with both of these. I actually only moderately enjoyed Brock/Trips from Summerslam. Brock was great, but just couldn't enjoy Trips. 

JD Chain match is fun. ***3/4 on my last watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I dig that chain match, ***3/4 when I just watched it a few short days ago (Jack Evans you really need to finish that Kane set, the first disc is meh but the other two are solid).

Just watched Cesaro vs Sheamus from Main Event for the first time. My lord, what was I thinking putting this off for MONTHS and not just sitting the fuck down and watching a brilliant 10 minute contest. Both guys were tops, but Cesaro was just :mark:. That boot to the head from the apron, the double stomp to the outside, the uppercut to Sheamus in mid air, and the flying knee were all :mark:. This guy rivals Brock as the best control segment guys in the business right now. Impeccable, top 10 for this year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal just watch Undertaker vs RVD again. Or so help me you better love that.

Brock vs Triple H >. And i'm not even that big on the match.

KANE's Chain match is awesome. I'm pretty high on it. KANE.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

WHY THE FUCK HAVE I ONLY JUST FOUND OUT THAT LUKE GALLOWS WAS IMPOSTER KANE?

IT'S TAKEN ME FIVE/SIX YEARS TO REALISE THIS? WAT


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm in the Shane McMahon portion of the Kane set, CJ. Disc Two has obviously been much better than disc one. Disc Three will no doubt top them all I'm sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FAKE KANE. One of the many gimmicks for Hankinson's resume.

believe it might be disc three on Kane's set where he has that AWESOME tag match with Undertaker vs Finlay & Booker. Some reason discs two and three blur together. Kane vs Edge in the cage is really good too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> FAKE KANE. One of the many gimmicks for Hankinson's resume.
> 
> believe it might be disc three on Kane's set where he has that AWESOME tag match with Undertaker vs Finlay & Booker. Some reason discs two and three blur together. Kane vs Edge in the cage is really good too.


It is indeed on disc 3 I was just pimping that match several pages ago as a sneaky great Tag match. Absolute awesomeness. The double boots, choke slams, FINLAY, Booker being surprisingly great, everything. Not to discredit Book's singles career, but it always seem to enjoy him best in tags. Not many singles matches stand out to me, I know a lot of people love him but I just never really get into his single stuff. The obvious exception being the Best of Benoit series with WCW, but come on, it's BENOIT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Discredit Booker's single career all you want. It's terrible .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Booker's singles work in WCW > his tag work, unless it was against the Steiners. Harlem Heat were pretty shit. Stevie Ray, ugh.

In WWE it could be the opposite. I won't deny it with how great the stuff with Goldust was. And now with Finlay there, I'm sure he has some other strong hidden tags out there. I'm a Booker fan either way.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Booker's singles work in WCW > his tag work, unless it was against the Steiners. Harlem Heat were pretty shit. Stevie Ray, ugh.
> 
> In WWE it could be the opposite. I won't deny it with how great the stuff with Goldust was. And now with Finlay there, I'm sure he has some other strong hidden tags out there. I'm a Booker fan either way.


I'm a fan of Bookers character and he has quite a few matches I really really like, it's just that for a guy who is almost universally respected as being a GREAT worker, he has very few singles matches in the WWE that I care for. Could definitely be that he had some more great ones in WCW, but by the time he really started getting pushed as a singles talent, I had tuned into WWF for good. His 7 match series with Benoit for the TV title and the ensuing Finlay match was one of the last things I remember watching in WCW live. I have since seen the Sid and Scott Steiner matches, but nothing else really. Got any reccomendations?

Here's a recommendation, Finlay vs Henry Belfast Brawl at Armageddon 2008. I'm sure most Finlay fans have seen it, but it had been quite a while for me and I just decided to dial it up. Pure unadulterated greatness. They straight kill each other for a solid 10 minutes. That Finlay boot to Tony Atlas :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Check out SuperBrawl '98. Booker has back-to-back US Title matches with Rick Martel & Saturn, both I recall enjoying. (Y)

EDIT: But it's been a bunch of years since I've seen them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Unsure the last time you saw it but Booker gets a real good match from Triple H at WM 19. Like it's odd how good that match is b/c A) it's Triple H & B) it's Triple H in 2003.

What else...

King Booker vs Rey Mysterio - GAB & rematch on following Smackdown.
Booker T vs Mark Henry - Armageddon 2003
Booker T vs Christian - Insurrextion 2003
Booker T vs Chris Benoit - most of 'em minus the ones from PPV. Survivor Series 2005 should actually hold up, tbhayley. Other two are much too long. NWO in particular is the most boring Benoit match ever.

I'm having a tough time remembering some matches from TV. Probably not good for my case. But it's more of a blank in memory from random facts than it is by not liking much. Although I remember his 2004 like the back of my hand. Probably b/c it wasn't good at all.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just got July ECW 08. HENRY IS ECW CHAMP. FINLAY AND MATT HARDY ARE THERE.

And the show is unwatchable as fuck. They just face Jiz, Morrison and Dreamer. Every week. Singles, tag. THE SAME. I can't watch it. I'm not THAT big on either Finlay, Henry or Hardy to sit through their matches with such awful opponents (Well I'm fine with Morrison singles matches, but those are rare against opponents not named DREAMER it seems...).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal you should be THAT big on Finlay, Hardy, & Henry. But what do I know, I like all six. And Chavo. 

oh how dare I.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You take that back. You FUCKING TAKE THAT BACK. Nobody likes Chavo. Nobody. You hear me? FUCKING NOBODY.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Best of Raw and Smackdown 2009 (Jerry Lawler in the intro said this could have been the best year yet :lol)

Shawn Michaels vs John Cena 1/12/2009 

Shawn was with JBL as part of the "Shawn's broke so he's contracted by JBL" story. Cena extends his hand before the match, Shawn accepts. Early in the night, Shawn said this would be his Wrestlemania. Boy was he wrong. Shawn gets the win with the superkick after JBL momentarily distracts Cena after Shawn gets out of the STF. Cena's STF :kobe5 Pretty good match. I have a little issue with Shawn just slapping on the figure four with no buildup; gives it less impact. Match is okay on the whole. Shawn's superkick from outta nowhere :mark:

CM Punk vs William Regal 1/19/2009 

Punk in Chicago always make me :mark: IC title match with no DQ. Forgot Layla was with Regal :kobe4 These two had met twice already with Regal escaping with DQ wins and losses. Regal sells these kicks from Punk so, so well. Number of submissions in this match, both guys with great strikes. Regal's Full Nelson slam on Punk looked pretty nasty. Match should have been longer, as these two could have put on a real classic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> You take that back. You FUCKING TAKE THAT BACK. Nobody likes Chavo. Nobody. You hear me? FUCKING NOBODY.


I think you're confusing him with Kofi Kingston.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> I think you're confusing him with Kofi Kingston.


Trust me, I'm not. Though both are god awful and need shooting. Legit shooting. In the head. With a bullet. To kill them. Forever. 


If that HBK/Cena Raw 09 match is the one I'm thinking of, it's fecking awesome. As is Regal/Punk. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If it gets rid of Kofi, I'll take it. Chavo's good days are long gone now and I got 'em recorded to watch. Make it happen.

Cena vs Shawn had two good matches on RAW in early '09. First one is the bout that was all "classic" & stuff from most. Regal vs Punk is too great for words. Sooooooooooo glad they put the full match on Punk's set. Commercial break took out too much goodness.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena/HBK 1/12/09 is glorious, gave it **** 1/4 and wrote a long review on it. Shawn's character work in that is soooooo good.

That RAW Best of '09 set is pretty underrated. Has those two matches mentioned above, the HHH/Orton Last Man Standing, a really good DX/Jerishow tag, that big 8 or 10-man tag with Steamboat in it, and one of Kofi's best singles matches in his career against Jericho. Fun 4-way WWE Title match where Orton wins the Title too.

EDIT: Just looked back at the listing again. It also has an awesome Cena/Punk match and that hella fun MSG 3-way tag where Taker & Cena teamed together. What a set!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal you're not big on Mark Henry and Finlay???? Really??? I'm not saying that's a problem it's just surprising because from reading your match reviews (how you always love the APA and big bastards beating the hell out of each other) I'd assume they would be really high up on your favorites list. Finlay, like Regal, has one of the most physical in ring styles, it's a beautiful blend of shoot fighting and pure mat wrestling with high impact spots sprinkled in to keep you on your toes. And what more can you say about Henry, he's cemented his place as a top 10 super heavyweight in the history of wrestling. He just resigned for 3 more years. If he stays healthy (granted, not a given) he could work his place into the top 5 and usurp a guy like Bam Bam. Have you seen the Finlay vs Henry Belfast Brawl from Armageddon 2008? Awesome, awesome match.

Watching Kane vs Trips No Mercy 2002. Anyone remember if it's any good? It's one of the few matches i have yet to watch from the Kane set.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jericho was pretty amazing in that segment where Vince returns and Jericho tries to get rehired. Steph in those leather pants :kobe4 John Laurinitis sighting :mark:

That segment where Orton punts Shane and RKOs Steph and finally draws out Triple H :mark: And we got this smiley out of out :HHH I vividly remember marking out hard when Trips showed up.


*Jeff Hardy, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio, Ricky Steamboat, and John Cena vs Chris Jericho, Kane, Matt Hardy, Big Show, and Edge* April 6, 2009

The night after Wrestlemania, this was billed as a Wrestlemania All Stars Tag Team match. Steamboat :mark: Dat ARM DRAG :mark: AWESOME match, tons of fun.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Watching Kane vs Trips No Mercy 2002. Anyone remember if it's any good? It's one of the few matches i have yet to watch from the Kane set.


I see you're not watching it in order. 

It sucks. Just an overbooked mess.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shawn/cena 1/09 is marvelous, it truly is

Welp I went up a bit on Punk/taker after watch #4, Punk is just soooo amazing in this match ***3/4 is disrespectfull actually. Love everything he does in this match from the mannerisms to the sick elbow drop onto the table are great. Its would be around the ****1/2 for me, I still have Punk/lesnar and Dolph/ADR ahead of it though


Parks is on :mark: :mark:


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Does anyone seriously believe the shit of Rock being a better in ring worker than Taker? Talk about preposterous thinking. That guy, Callamus would know what.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> shawn/cena 1/09 is marvelous, it truly is
> 
> Welp I went up a bit on Punk/taker after watch #4, Punk is just soooo amazing in this match ***3/4 is disrespectfull actually. Love everything he does in this match from the mannerisms to the sick elbow drop onto the table are great. Its would be around the ****1/2 for me, I still have Punk/lesnar and Dolph/ADR ahead of it though
> 
> ...


That's a hell of a jump in the rating, but I agree with you. I also have Punk/Lesnar ahead of it, but Dolph/ADR is about 4th or 5th in my MOTY list, with Punk/Lesnar, Punk/Taker, Punk/Cena, and Bryan Cena ahead of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PARKS & PUNK_(vs Underfuckintaker)_ praise.

What a combo.


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Undertaker vs. Kane WMXX is such a point executed match. Both men understand the purpose of the match and execute it in the simplest form ala an entertaining squash match which is still effective hence the entertaining. Way too much hate is bestowed, solid match to put over the mystic of the new returning deadman.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

What a combo indeed my friend, jumped for joy when I just got home put the TV on and Leslie and Ben are talking


I'll admit I'm a tad subjectivity with Dolph/ADR but its phenomenal and Ive watched it sooo many times and it never gets old. I cant even get into the ole MOTY List with my brain hurting but right now 

Its

Punk/lesnar
Dolph/ADR
Punk/taker

and the rest I'm very very high on cena/henry the zayn/cesaro series , cesaro vs. EVERYONE tbhayley and I still love show/adr sd


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> That's a hell of a jump in the rating, but I agree with you. I also have Punk/Lesnar ahead of it, but Dolph/ADR is about 4th or 5th in my MOTY list, with Punk/Lesnar, Punk/Taker, Punk/Cena, and Bryan Cena ahead of it.


That's actually my exact order, almost. I have Punk-Lesnar, Punk-Cena, Punk-Taker, Bryan-Cena, Zayn-Cesaro, THEN Dolph-ADR. Probably Cesaro-Sheamus, Rollins-Bryan, Reigns-Bryan, Christian-ADR in some order after that.

Bottom line, this year has had some GREAT matches. Battleground isn't looking too promising, I'm holding out hope that RVD-ADR Hardcore will deliver in a big way. You can call me delusional but I still have faith that RVD can deliver a 4 star plus match, I hope he doesn't prove me wrong.


----------



## Reminiscing (Sep 5, 2013)

Ryback/Punk tables match would be in the top 5 of my MOTY list. Call me a luny but that bout rules, with their HIAC being a solid addition.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Havent seen Dolph/ADR since it aired. Hope it makes it on best PPV matches so I dont have to buy Payback which is kind of one match show but I enjoyed Punk/Jericho(***) and Cena/Ryback( ** 1/2) for mindless fun


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Twisted, Disturbed Life of Kane - Disc Two

**Intercontinental Championship - Chain Match
*Triple H (c) vs. Kane - ***
_Judgment Day '01_

Kane vs. Kurt Angle - ** 3/4
_Wrestlemania X-8

_*World Heavyweight Title & Intercontinental Title Unification Match
*Triple H (c) vs. Kane - *
_No Mercy '02_

Kane & Rob Van Dam vs. Christian & Chris Jericho - ** 1/2
_RAW 1/6/03

_*Steel Cage Match
*Kane vs. Rob Van Dam - *** 1/4
_RAW 9/8/03

_*Last Man Standing Match
*Kane vs. Shane McMahon - *** 1/2
_Unforgiven '03

_*Ambulance Match
*Kane vs. Shane McMahon - *** 1/4
_Survivor Series '03

_*Til Death Do Us Part Match
*Kane vs. Matt Hardy - ** 1/2
_Summerslam '04_


- So that chain match with Triple H is actually pretty badass. I thought it was gonna be a garbage brawl but it was pretty damn fun. Trips starts off by attacking Kane's "broken" arm and just annihilates the motherfucker with chair shots and throwing him against the steps. It unfortunately doesn't play into any other part of the match in the late stages, but it was great while it lasted. Other than that, it's just two guys gettin bloodied and beatin the hell out of each other with chairs and chains and shit.  Finish kinda sucks though, so that's the only negative.

- The Angle match was pretty average in the first half but REALLY picked up down the line and was going completely swimmingly until they botched the hell out of the finish. Still a solid match.

- No Mercy '02 against Hunter is trash. Absolutely nothing of note happens in the first half, then Flair comes out and it all goes down the shitter. Interference from Flair & The Hurricane, pedigrees, sledgehammers, chokeslams, ref bumps, more Flair and more chokeslams, and a flat finish. No good.

- RVD portions of this disc are pretty cool. The tag match against Christian & Jericho is some wild fun. You had HBK & Orton runnin around at ringside and the crowd is goin nuts while the match inside the ring is pretty fun too. The Cage match on the other hand is a completely different story as Kane just DESTROYS Rob at every turn and it's completely awesome. It's sort of like Lesnar/Cena without Cena ever making his comeback at the end. One guy just gets the eternal shit kicked out of him and it's great.  Rob does have some hope spots though so that makes it even better. Finish is hella cool too. Real gem.

- I think just about everyone has seen the Shane O'Mac matches by now, so I won't say much about them. I love the LMS match but the Ambulance match is an odd one. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot of fun but it just feels like a bunch of big spots without them building to any of them. Shane hits the elbow through the table like 3 minutes in.  Also thought the backing up of the car into Kane was hilarious and love how conveniently placed that black cardboard rectangle thingy was for Shane to use on the coast to coast. Crazy match and I'll let the non-building to spots aspect slide since Shane just wanted to kill Kane. 

- Kane/Hardy has an awesome finish and it's certainly a watchable match. Hardy does everything he can to win. The end of this disc has a bunch of cool extras including the JR interview where Kane lights him on fire lmao), the entire Kane/Lita wedding segment, and a a great promo with Kane, Rock, and Hogan.​


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

FYI, Mike Adamle turned 64 years old today. lolJeff Harvey
____________

Ric Flair vs Edge - TLC Match

Flair's first TLC match, and it was a pretty good one. Edge gets the upper hand early, and goes for the Con-chair-to, but Flair grabs Edge by the balls. He always goes for the balls. :lol Edge and Lita work together to incapacitate Flair and Edge puts a chair in the ring and hits a splash from the top. Flair's sporting the crimson mask, opening up a cut from the previous week. Superplex from the top of the ladder :mark: Edge's fall from the ladder through the table is :bron4 Figure Four on Lita when she interferes :lol Flair makes another attempt to climb but Edge has recuperated and knocks Flair off. ***3/4


Edge vs John Cena - TLC Match - Unforgiven 2006

Toronto :mark: Really good match. Lots of shitting on Cena from the crowd. Lots of really cool things going on here with Edge dropkicking the ladder into Cena from the outside while Cena was in the 619 position (whatever it's the only thing I could come up with). Not sure if Edge botched the Sunset flip and meant to powerbomb Cena through the table and fell short or not, but they made up for it when Edge power slammed Cena through the table. Edge ran up the ladder then hit the splash on Cena who was out on the floor. Risky move with that ladder slipping out from under Edge. STF with the ladder was unique, even though Cena's STF still isn't even a crossface, but a modified chinlock. I really wish someone backstage would set him straight on that. Cena sets up for the Five Knuckle Shuffle. More shitting on Cena. Cena drops the punch from the top of the ladder. Meh. Edge hit a classic chair shot to Cena who never saw it coming. Cool sell by Cena also. Cena knocks Edge from the top to the outside, sets up a 16 foot ladder in the middle of the ring, Edge recuperates and hits a spear from another ladder. Edge leaps off the ladder but Cena catches him and looks for the FU, Edge gets back to the ladder but Cena gets him back and sets up for a powerbomb and powerbombs Edge AT the other ladder set up, which actually looks really dangerous. A straightforward powerbomb has a plenty of impact. Back Cena goes up the ladder but here comes Lita (DEM TITS) and turns the ladder and Cena goes all the way through the ladder set up on the floor. :lol King. "That bitch Lita". Edge slowly makes his climb, and Cena's slowly back in. Lita drills Cena with a chair, causing him to fall into the ladder, sending Edge through tables set up on the outside. :lol JR "What an evil bitch". Cena FU's Lita. Bye Lita. Cena re-stacks the two tables in the ring, and goes to check on Edge (WTF), and starts his climb. Edge makes his way back in, a little fast IMO for someone who just took the fall that he did. The two exchange shots atop the ladder and Cena gets Edge up for the FU and sends Edge through the two tables. Cena reclaims the belt. Jim Ross with a pretty cool sound byte here: "Edge has just FU'd through not one, but two tables from a 16 foot ladder from maybe the baddest son of a bitch we've ever seen." Though I though Cena was okay in this match, this was a good carry job from Edge. ****1/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Edge did a good job carrying 2006 Cena who was atrocious, but every time I watch that TLC match, I dislike it even more. Edge/Flair was boss.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Flair was still God in 2006, serious contender for WWE wrestler of the year.

Maybe not that far...but he did have a good 3 year stretch there, from 2004-2006 where he would bust out a **** classic occasionally.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

> FYI, Mike Adamle turned 64 years old today. lolJeff Harvey


All the botches make sense now :hmm:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flair vs Edge >>> Edge vs Cena.

If that's an Edge carry job, then he's awful.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I like the Edge/Cena TLC, haven't seen Flair/Edge enough to give an opinion on that one though.

I have been watching my WWF/WWE ppv's that I own in order & I'm on RR 04 at the moment, let's see if this is as underwhelming as I remember.

But atleast No Way Out 04 is up next :eddie


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Cal you're not big on Mark Henry and Finlay???? Really??? I'm not saying that's a problem it's just surprising because from reading your match reviews (how you always love the APA and big bastards beating the hell out of each other) I'd assume they would be really high up on your favorites list. Finlay, like Regal, has one of the most physical in ring styles, it's a beautiful blend of shoot fighting and pure mat wrestling with high impact spots sprinkled in to keep you on your toes. And what more can you say about Henry, he's cemented his place as a top 10 super heavyweight in the history of wrestling. He just resigned for 3 more years. If he stays healthy (granted, not a given) he could work his place into the top 5 and usurp a guy like Bam Bam. Have you seen the Finlay vs Henry Belfast Brawl from Armageddon 2008? Awesome, awesome match.


I AM big on both Henry and Finlay, hell I love Finlay to death... I'm just not AS big on them as say The Undertaker who I can watch wrestle ANYONE regardless of how terrible. I would seriously struggle to watch Finlay Vs The Jiz because of how god awful Jiz is and how I would hate that little twat getting any kind of offence in. And then for Finlay to wrestle The Jiz in some fashion almost every week for like 2 months is just :| to me. It's more about how much I detest The Jiz than how much I love Finlay.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Edge/Flair TLC is awesome. Flair puts in a hell of a performance as the underdog challenger trying to capture the WWE Title one more time in his home town, while Edge plays a great dickish heel in this one. Love some of the spots in this match, particularly the one when Edge does that huge diving splash off the ladder onto Flair through a table. And the spot where Flair takes a suplex off the ladder was pretty crazy considering his age and history of back problems.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Edge/Flair is amazing. GOAT singles TLC match. Can't think of any that come close tbh (that being said, how many single TLC matches have they done? 3?).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Edge/Flair is amazing. GOAT singles TLC match. Can't think of any that come close tbh (that being said, how many single TLC matches have they done? 3?).



I dunno, Punk vs Jeff TLC at Summerslam was pretty damn great, I think I might have to give the nod to that one.

The match Jeff had with Taker on Raw was just a ladder match, right? I know they used chairs and stuff, but it wasn't an official TLC match I don't think. Otherwise that would be my choice.

God Kane vs Trips No Mercy 2002 was not nearly as good as I thought it would be (their chain match was glorious, I thought we'd see more of the same). The interference from Flair at the end killed it, the whole beginning was slow and plodding and then when business finally starts to pick , Flair starts doing his thing and it just turns into a giant shit storm. Maybe ** from me, at most.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Actually forgot about Hardy/Punk. Not sure I'd have it above Edge/Flair... I'd have to re-watch it. Not the biggest fan of it though.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just re-watched Edge/Flair & (Y)(Y)



> God Kane vs Trips No Mercy 2002 was not nearly as good as I thought it would be (their chain match was glorious, I thought we'd see more of the same). The interference from Flair at the end killed it, the whole beginning was slow and plodding and then when business finally starts to pick , Flair starts doing his thing and it just turns into a giant shit storm. Maybe ** from me, at most.


I just enjoy the shear insanity of that match haha.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Just re-watched Edge/Flair & (Y)(Y)
> 
> 
> 
> I just enjoy the shear insanity of that match haha.


Eh, it's all preference. I love good finishes that fit the story being told, but I know a lot of people like the insane "Attitude Era" type finishes were shit just hits the fan and the crowd goes ballistic. I can understand that, it's just not my cup of tea personally 

I guess I'll have to check out the Flair-Edge TLC again, it's on the ladder match set I have. That's the match were Flair bleeds all over the place and Edge beats him down in front of his daughter sitting in the front row, right?


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I guess I'll have to check out the Flair-Edge TLC again, it's on the ladder match set I have. That's the match were Flair bleeds all over the place and Edge beats him down in front of his daughter sitting in the front row, right?


Yep. And I too have the ladder match set - and the match of it I posted above was from the ladder match set because it's starts off with Todd Grisham talking.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all talking about TLC matches?

:kane :dazzler :ryback vs :ambrose2 :rollins :reigns

Nuff said.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Actually we were talking about one on one TLC matches. So feck off!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*You* fock off cause 6-man TLC's >>>> 1-on-1 :genius


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

RANKING TEH TLC MATCHEROOONIES:

13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
11. DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 - **1/2
10. CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011 - **1/2
09. John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 - ***
08. Bubba & Spike Vs Kane & Hurricane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 - ***1/4
07. CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009 - ***1/2
06. Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010 - ***1/2
05. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 01/04/2001 - ***1/2
04. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
03. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - ****
02. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I SummerSlam 2000 - ****1/4
01. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001 - ****1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> God Kane vs Trips No Mercy 2002 was not nearly as good as I thought it would be (their chain match was glorious, I thought we'd see more of the same). The interference from Flair at the end killed it, the whole beginning was slow and plodding and then when business finally starts to pick , Flair starts doing his thing and it just turns into a giant shit storm. Maybe ** from me, at most.





William Murderface said:


> I just enjoy the shear insanity of that match haha.


There's situations where the endings are chaotic and overbooked with Flair interference and I don't mind (i.e. HHH/Nash from Insurexxtion) but it doesn't seem to work in the Kane matches. No Mercy '02 and the RAW '03 where he loses his mask. Just seems like too much.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> RANKING TEH TLC MATCHEROOONIES:
> 
> 13. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
> 12. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
> ...



I think the Shield vs Hell No Ryback TLC from 2012 is the greatest TLC match ever and along with Bryan/Punk OTL is my MotY from 2012. The reason I put it above the others is because of the story being told, instead of it being just an insane spotfest (not that there is anything wrong with a TLC spotfest, TLC III was absolutely awesome) it had the Shield doing their pack of dogs mentality just obliterating everything in their path. The one segment that had be absolutely sold on the Shoeld was when they triple bombed Ryback through the table, speared Kane through the wall, then had Reigns patrol the outside while Rollins-Ambrose double teamed Bryan. I mean that was just brilliant execution, and it set up the future of how the Shield always stays one step ahead of their competition by using team work better than any other group out there.

A guy I know was at the Barclays center for that match. He said the mood in the crowd was just absolutely electric the entire time, because they were all excited about the Shield debut, and then when the match got under way and about 5 minutes in it was obvious how not only were these guys worth all the hype, but you were probably witnessing the birth of 3 stars at once. similar to the No Mercy tag team ladder match between the Hardys and Edge/Christian.

So yea, I think the absolute world of that match, the only thing that keeps me from giving it the full 5 stars is that it should have been an actual TLC match with something to win at the top of a ladder, instead of the ladder just being a prop for a monster spot at the end. Otherwise, I have absolutely zero gripes about it.

P.s How hilarious/absolutely awesome was Ambrose face after he got suplexed onto the ladder by Ryback? I mean that was Heyman level genius. It gets me every time I watch it. I wish I could find a gif of it for anyone that doesn't know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TLC III is far from just your normal spotfest ladder/weapon match, which is why I always consider it to be the best. I wanna watch the SHIELD match again though. Only watched it once when it aired, and given my memory of it (which is surprisingly great for a nearly year old match I saw once lol) and my memory of SS 00 which I have above it and only recently watched, it would probably take the #2 spot easily.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Totally just realised I'm missing a TLC match from my list:

14. Edge Vs Kane Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Alberto Del Rio - TLC XI TLC 2010 - **
13. Undertaker Vs Edge - TLC VII One Night Stand 2008 - **1/2
12. DX Vs JeriShow - TLC IX TLC 2009 - **1/2
11. CM Punk Vs Alberto Del Rio Vs The Miz - TLC XII TLC 2011 - **1/2
10. John Cena Vs Edge - TLC VI Unforgiven 2006 - ***
*09. CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC XIV Raw 07/01/2013 - ***1/4*
08. Bubba & Spike Vs Kane & Hurricane Vs Chris Jericho & Christian Vs Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam - TLC IV Raw 07/10/2002 - ***1/4
07. CM Punk Vs Jeff Hardy - TLC VIII SummerSlam 2009 - ***1/2
06. Jerry Lawler Vs The Miz - TLC X Raw 29/11/2010 - ***1/2
05. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC II WrestleMania 01/04/2001 - ***1/2
04. Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC V Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
03. The Shield Vs Team Hell No & Ryback - TLC XIII TLC 2012 - ****
02. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian - TLC I SummerSlam 2000 - ****1/4
01. The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit - TLC III Smackdown 24/05/2001 - ****1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Y'all talking about TLC matches?
> 
> :kane :dazzler :ryback vs :ambrose2 :rollins :reigns
> 
> Nuff said.


Ive still to fucking watch that match  I may just tonight....


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Ive still to fucking watch that match  I may just tonight....



Zep you seriously haven't seen it yet???!! Really? Man, I think you need to check it out tonight, I highly doubt there is a better match out there that you haven't seen yet. 

Cal- your right, TLC III isn't really am average spotfest, it's easily my favorite out of the first trilogy of TLC matches. It's worked in a much more sensible manner, while still having a few of the crazy high spots that make the TLC matches so famous (Benoits diving head butt through the table is just ludicrous). Like I said, the team work of the Shield is what makes me put it up in the top, I've never seen a 6 man tag worked so perfectly. Not only did it allow all 6 guys to have their individual moments to shine, especially Reigns and Ryback who came out of that looking like absolute monsters, but it also didn't come off as overly staged and felt more like a street fight between two gangs.

Just watched the forgotten Foley gem, Dude Love vs Stone Cold at Unforgiven. While the OTE match the two had a month later is much more lauded, and rightfully so as it's damn near perfection, maybe my favorite Attitude Era match and tied with Angle/Austin SS as my favorite Austin match, I still think Unforgiven is great in its own right. The finish is nonsensical (Austin makes the 3 count for himself) but was necessary because it sets up the match at the next PPV. **** from me, I highly recommend checking it out if you haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like that UF match, but it's definitely a big step down from their OTE bout. ***1/2 for UF, ****1/2 for OTE.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Ive still to fucking watch that match  I may just tonight....


:|

I've watched it like 8 times and it's my MOTY for 2012.

Match is on YouTube if you want to watch it:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

GOAT match. Never get tired of watching it.

Only clicked on this thread because Nostalgia had the last post btw. :hb


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

TLC III ****1/4

Don't think I had ever seen this match. I'm so in love with the Summerslam 2000 match that I don't know if anything tops it for me, but this is pretty good. Jericho locking in the Walls on Edge atop the two ladders :mark:

Watched Eddie Guerrerro/RVD on Raw for the IC title. That match :ti
___________

I watched Hogan/Rock from WM 18 last night for the first time in a while, and DAMN. That was one of the greatest spectacles I think I've ever seen. Toronto was so hot the entire match and made for a really amazing atmosphere. When Hogan was hulking up :mark: I'm not the biggest Hogan fan but that was really awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watched the SHIELD TLC match again. :mark: It's still awesome. Sticking with my **** rating and placement as the 3rd best TLC match though. Crazy to think that it STILL doesn't even rank in my top 10 matches for the year :|.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fuck TLCs 

The 2012 one is the best ****1/2, LOVED the punk/ryback and miz/lawler. Never seen the flair one watch I'm is a MUST now, and punk/hardy is OK

I use to have punk/hardy at ***** :lmao use to love DEM SPOTS


Edit: Out of curiosity what is your top 10 Cal ? If you remember them


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got my top 10 saved in a text document for such an occasion! 

10. Sheamus Vs Big Show - Hell in a Cell - ****
09. Austin Aries Vs Bully Ray - Final Resolution - ****
08. CM Punk Vs John Cena - Night of Champions - ****1/4
07. Triple H Vs Brock Lesnar - SummerSlam - ****1/4
06. Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - Hardcore Justice - ****1/4
05. Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - Extreme Rules - ****1/2
04. John Cena Vs Brock Lesnar - Extreme Rules - ****1/2
03. CM Punk Vs Chris Jericho - WrestleMania 28 - ****1/2
02. The Undertaker Vs Triple H - WrestleMania 28 - ****3/4
01. CM Punk Vs Daniel Bryan - Over the Limit - ****3/4

Honerable Mentions:

Bully Ray Vs Joseph Park - Slammiversary
Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - Destination X
James Storm Vs Bobby Roode - Lockdown
Sheamus Vs Daniel Bryan - Raw Street Fight
CM Punk Vs Mark Henry - Raw (first and third)
William Regal Vs Dean Ambrose - FCW
Kane, Daniel Bryan & Ryback Vs Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - TLC
Sheamus Vs Big Show - Raw (Christmas Eve show)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hardy/Taker Ladder match :mark: JR's commentary :mark: "CLIMB THE LADDER KID! MAKE YOURSELF FAMOUS!" 

Can't enough of that one.


----------



## Bronx Bomber (May 31, 2007)

Summerslam '03

La Resistance/Dudley Boys- **
Taker/A-Train- ***
Shane/Bischoff- *
Eddie/Benoit/Rhyno/Tajiri- ***3/4
Angle/Brock- ****1/4
Kane/RVD- **3/4
Chamber Match- ***1/2

Overall really enjoyed this. First time watching it all the way though and was a thoroughly entertaining show. Angle/Brock was great, as was the fatal four way. Taker/Train I really enjoyed, a hard hitting brawl. Chamber match was solid, Goldberg destroying everyone was awesome. Fun show. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I watched Hogan/Rock from WM 18 last night for the first time in a while, and DAMN. That was one of the greatest spectacles I think I've ever seen. Toronto was so hot the entire match and made for a really amazing atmosphere. When Hogan was hulking up :mark: I'm not the biggest Hogan fan but that was really awesome.


That match gives me chills every time just because how amped up the crowd is.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Just rewatched Summerslam 09, one of my favourite ones, after 13,02 and 01:

Ziggler/Mysterio- ***3/4
Swagger/MVP- DUD
Jeri-Show/Cryme Time- **1/4
Kane/Khali- DUD
Legacy/DX- ****
Christian/Regal- N/A
Cena/Orton- **
Punk/Hardy- ****1/2


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

This DVD is now up in XWT:

WWE Hulk Hogan - The Ultimate Anthology



Spoiler: matchlist



4 Disc set DVD rip 704 x 480 .mp4 

Matches include 

Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant 
9/13/80 - Shea Stadium 

Hulk Hogan vs. AWA champion Nick Bockwinkel 
4/24/83 

WWF champion Iron Sheik vs. Hulk Hogan 
Madison Square Garden - 1/23/84 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. Big John Studd 
Madison Square Garden - 9/22/84 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. Roddy Piper 
War To Settle The Score - 2/18/85 

Hulk Hogan & Mr. T vs. Roddy Piper & Paul Orndorff 
Wrestlemania - 3/31/85 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. King Kong Bund 
Steel Cage Match 
Wrestlemania 2 - 4/7/86 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff 
The Big Event - 8/28/86 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. Andre The Giant 
Wrestlemania III - 3/29/87 

WWF champion Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan 
Wrestlemania V - 4/18/89 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. WWF Intercontinental champion Ultimate Warrior 
Wrestlemania VI - 4/1/90 

WWF champion Sgt. Slaughter vs. Hulk Hogan 
Wrestlemania VII - 3/24/91 

WWF champion The Undertaker vs. Hulk Hogan 
Tuesday in Texas PPV - 12/3/91 

WCW World champ Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan 
Bash at the Beach - 7/17/94 

The Formation of the NWO 
Bash at the Beach - 7/7/96 

WCW World champion The Giant vs. Hulk Hogan 
Hog Wild - 8/10/96 

WCW World champion Hulk Hogan vs. Sting 
Starrcade - 12/28/97 

Hulk Hogan vs. Curt Hennig 
XWF TV Taping (Orlando, Florida) 11/14/01 

Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock 
Wrestlemania X8 - 03/17/02 

WWE Undisputed Champion HHH vs. Hulk Hogan 
Backlash - 4/21/02 

WWE Tag Team Champions Billy & Chuck vs. Edge & Hulk Hogan 
SmackDown - 07/04/02 

Hulk Hogan vs. Vince McMahon 
Street Fight 
WrestleMania XIX - 3/30/03 

WWE Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony 
4/2/05 

Hulk Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels 
Summerslam - 8/21/05 

Hulk Hogan vs. Tito Santana 
Madison Square Garden - 3/24/80 

Hulk Hogan vs. Sonny Rogers & Chuck Greenly 
AWA - 08/08/81 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk 
Saturday Night's Main Event - 01/04/86 

WWF champion Hulk Hogan vs. Harley Race 
Saturday Night's Main Event - 3/12/88 

1990 Royal Rumble 

Hulk Hogan vs. Earthquake 
Summerslam - 8/27/90 

"Mean" Gene Okerlund interviews Hulk Hogan 
WWE Raw Homecoming - 10/3/05



Good stuff.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Gotta say it again, it's really awesome that the WWE is posting all those great matches on their YT channel. Watched the 8 Man Tag Match from SD 10th Anniversary. ***1/4 for that match, that HBK/Takaer interaction


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I am re watching 97 and 98 WWF, and I just finished Summerslam 98. Great PPV.

The Ladder match between the Rock and Triple H was definitely the best match of that night. Excellent work by both men. Probably the Rock's single greatest ring psychology performance in his career. Attacking the leg of Triple H. Hunter also took some insane bumps. He had to have more than a few bruises. I also loved the very old school powder spot, where Mark Henry blinded Triple H. I thought that was a nice homage to old school wrestling. And of course the best decision WWF made was NOT letting Triple H get the clean win. Having Chyna interfere with the match was the right decision. As it made both men look strong in the end. As you had to believe the Rock probably would have won the match with Triple H's busted leg. ***** match. And IMO the greatest ladder match ever. The Rock had a great Intercontinental run. But I felt it was the right time for him to lose the belt.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Callamus said:


> 06. Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - Hardcore Justice - ****1/4
> 
> Honerable Mentions:
> 
> Austin Aries Vs Bobby Roode - Destination X


That's surprising. I think you're the only one who put the HJ match over DX. If that's matter, I thought the first match was better (****1/4, HJ ***1/2). II started really promising and was damn good, but I hated the finish, usually I'm fine with overbooking if it's done right but this was just a mess. I get that it was a part of the "fluke" story but this was the blow-off of the feud and Aries should've won cleanly and prove that he's more than a fluke.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

KingLobos said:


> I am re watching 97 and 98 WWF, and I just finished Summerslam 98. Great PPV.
> 
> The Ladder match between the Rock and Triple H was definitely the best match of that night. Excellent work by both men. Probably the Rock's single greatest ring psychology performance in his career. Attacking the leg of Triple H. Hunter also took some insane bumps. He had to have more than a few bruises. I also loved the very old school powder spot, where Mark Henry blinded Triple H. I thought that was a nice homage to old school wrestling. And of course the best decision WWF made was NOT letting Triple H get the clean win. Having Chyna interfere with the match was the right decision. As it made both men look strong in the end. As you had to believe the Rock probably would have won the match with Triple H's busted leg. ***** match. And IMO the greatest ladder match ever. The Rock had a great Intercontinental run. But I felt it was the right time for him to lose the belt.


Love this match, though haven't gone about ****1/2 on it. Both guys were doing great work in their respective factions, and put on good matches together. This is one of their best.

Trips/Rocky's best:

Summerslam 98
Backlash 2000
JD 2000

Worth watching if you haven't: IC Title match on Raw in 1997 (forget the exact date)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah I am one of the very few people to have the second Roode/Aries match over the first. Honestly can't remember why I liked it more, but I know I did .

***** for the SS 98 ladder match? I'd struggle to give it **. One of the worst ladder matches ever imo.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Callamus said:


> ***** for the SS 98 ladder match? I'd struggle to give it **. One of the worst ladder matches ever imo.


Why?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its boring as shit and just a crappy match. Working the leg makes perfect sense in a ladder match but fuck me it's all so DULL.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

watching the Hart set, I barely watched anything this week because of my FOUR FUCKING TESTS. ughh so happy its Friday. Football game tonight( Not soccer brits ) but tomorrow shall be devoted to Wrestling. Thinking about knocking them TLC matches out so I can rank them all.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Well I can respect what you think, but Rock's arrogant actions against Trips' playing the sympathetic babyface worked really well for me. Not the fastest paced match, but it doesn't bother me.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm not a fan of the Rock/HHH ladder match either. I remember checking it out a while ago on my ladder match DVD because I hadn't seen it before, and I just couldn't get into it, and it's one of those matches just dragged on and on for me and it's quite dull as Cal said. 



The Lady Killer said:


> Only clicked on this thread because Nostalgia had the last post btw. :hb


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

***** for the Rocky/HHH Ladder match??? Really? Wow. Never thought I'd see that.

Smh at you Cal and giving Taker/HHH the nod over punk Jericho at wm28. I don't like that hell in a cell at all, but even if I did, I wouldn't rate it above Punk Jericho. That was a classic WWE title match at Wrestlemania, doesn't get too much better than that (I have punk/Bryan otl and the Shield TLC tied as my 2012 MotY with Jericho/Punk and Brock/Cena after that.)

Wanna hear something funny? Jericho said in an interview the match he had at Payback was the best of the entire Punk trilogy. :lol. Just because you're a wrestler doesn't mean your opinion is right, and that statement proves it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm an Undertaker mark, whatcha expect?  It used to be my MOTY too .

Punk/Jericho is incredible though. GOAT WM WWE Title match. Their best match together. Punk's second best match in the company. Jericho's third I think.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Well I'm NOT a taker mark and I give HIAC the nod over punk/y2j

Dont remember punk/y2j mania being OTHERWORLDLY, solid though, their ex is good just draggs and is wayyy to long


Edit: Yea I heard that Y2J interview a while ago, he actually thinks Payback>>>EX>>>>MANIA when asked about their trilogy


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

top 10 matches of 2012

1: Brock Lesnar vs John Cena( *****)
2: Daniel Bryan vs CM Punk( OTL, **** 3/4)
3: TLC match( **** 3/4)
4: Undertaker vs HHH HIAC( **** 1/2)
5: Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus 2/3( **** 1/2)
6: CM Punk vs Chris Jericho( WM, **** 1/4)
7: Sheamus vs Big show( HIAC, **** 1/4)
8: CM Punk vs John Cena( **** 1/4)
9: HHH vs Brock Lesnar( ****)'
10: Sheamus vs Dolph Ziggler (NWO, ****)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Wanna hear something funny? Jericho said in an interview the match he had at Payback was the best of the entire Punk trilogy. :lol. Just because you're a wrestler doesn't mean your opinion is right, and that statement proves it.


If he likes the match, that's fine. Just because people on a forum deem it bad, doesn't mean they're all right. Jericho's more of a wrestling expert than anyone here, so if he thinks the match was good, that's fine. I don't agree that the Payback match was their best, but that's just my opinion. Doesn't mean I'm right. 

Trips/Taker just edges Punk/Jericho for me. Can't beat those two in the cell.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

I do sometimes wonder what this forum would be like if it was around in the Attitude Era. 1997 Kane is similar to how Bray Wyatt is being booked right now IMO. Kane since making his debut to December, was just attacking random jobbers like Flash Funk, Matt and Jeff Hardy (when they weren't stars), the Headbangers and Ahmed Johnson (who wasn't booked as strong as before). Then you have Bray Wyatt who has been involved in squash matches ever since beating Kane at SS but I have read so much threads on here saying how Wyatt is directionless and they have already run out of ideas even though Kane at one stage was booked like this (just showing up every week, attacking random wrestlers and leaving).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane wasn't directionless though. He was attacking and destroying people to try and get Undertaker's attention and guilt him into finally getting in the ring with him (as the story was that Undertaker wouldn't fight his own brother). 

That being said no doubt people would have absolutely shit all over Kane anyway .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Kane wasn't directionless though. He was attacking and destroying people to try and get Undertaker's attention and guilt him into finally getting in the ring with him (as the story was that Undertaker wouldn't fight his own brother).
> 
> That being said no doubt people would have absolutely shit all over Kane anyway .


 Yeah I agree. I wasn't exactly trying to say that Kane was directionless, I was comparing his booking with the current Wyatt family. It is similar in terms of just beating random wrestlers weekly. Although, you are right that the intent is different as Kane was just beating people up as a way to send message to the Undertaker and the Wyatt family are just squashing jobbers and waiting for Kane's return so they could finish the feud off.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I'm an Undertaker mark, whatcha expect?  It used to be my MOTY too .
> 
> Punk/Jericho is incredible though. GOAT WM WWE Title match. Their best match together. Punk's second best match in the company. Jericho's third I think.


For me, my favorite wrestlers of all time are Eddie, Foley, Taker, and Benoit, in that order. So I WAS truly hoping they would redeem themselves after that awful WM27 match. And they did in a way, because HiaC wasn't awful or anything, I just wouldn't consider it GREAT or a top 10 match for that year.

Punks best matches, in my opinion, have been MitB with Cena, SS vs Lesnar, OTL vs Bryan, WM vs Taker, and then WM vs Jericho. He's had some all time great matches the past 2 years, he just always seems to deliver in big match situations, that's why I'm hoping and praying we get him vs Bryan for the WWE title at Mania at some point. I also wouldn't mind another Cena match if they did it at Mania, the chemistry those two have is just great. I saw an interview where Punk says he called 95% of MitB, essentially everything but the finish, on the fly in the ring. Cena let him dictate everything because it was supposed to be his time to shine. That probably has a lot to so with why that match felt so real and special. There isn't a lot of guys who would not only have the balls not to map out anything in their most important match, but to then also deliver a pretty much unanimous 5-Star classic too. Pretty crazy.

HunterHearstHelmsley- You're right of course, Jericho knows a hell of a lot more about wrestling than I will ever know in a million years. I just thought it was interesting that he would say that, because I've literally spoken to no one, not just on this thread or in this forum, no one period who thinks Payback is superior to their match at Wrestlemania. Event he interviewer second guessed him and made him clarify. Makes you realize that there is really NOTHING about wrestling that can be objectively analyzed, every single thing is subjective. I'm a big sports guy and I love digging into advanced stats to try and compare and contrast things. Wrestling is just completely different in that aspect from every thing else except or maybe movies. You can't analyze what makes a movie great the same way you can't analyze what's in a good match. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Or something

Wrestling really is more performance art than a sport or anything. Yes you have to be an athlete to do it, but I think it has wayyyy more in common with a play/opera/ballet/movie than it does amateur wrestling/boxing/mma.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Awful WM 27 match? YOU TAKE THAT BACK. AND LOVE THE HIAC MORE TOO.

Punk matches (in WWE anyway) I'd put over the Jericho match: Vs Cena MITB and Vs Bryan OTL, so it would be his 3rd best match in the company, not second. Same as Jericho (Vs HHH LMS and Vs Benoit Ladder above it).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I"d have both taker/hhh over punk/y2j mania tbhayley

punk/y2j was solid but wouldnt be in my top 5-10 punk matches


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I"d have both taker/hhh over punk/y2j mania tbhayley
> 
> punk/y2k was solid but wouldnt be in my top 5-10 punk matches


YOURE WRONG!

Just watched Regal vs Benoit from Velocity 10-2-05. What a superb match. For any of you that love the stiff, bad ass, mat wrestling style of Regal, this is an absolute must see. Just a slightly lesser version of the match they would have at the Pillman Tribute Show (one of my personal favorites). Regal gets busted open hard way from a Benoit head butt, and I don't think 1 second passes in this entire match without a hold or a punch being thrown. You want see any rope running in this match kiddies, just hard nosed brutal fighting with wrestling mixed it. Top notch stuff, makes my top 10 for the year certainly.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 2012:

(****1/2)
1) Punk/Bryan OTL 
2) Shield/Bryan-Kane-Ryback TLC 
(****1/4)
3) Lesnar/Cena ER
(****)
4) Bryan/Sheamus ER
5) Punk/Jericho WM28
6) Punk/Henry Raw 4/2
7) Taker/HHH WM28
8) Punk/Cena NOC
(***3/4)
9) Sheamus/Show HIAC
10) Barrett/Bryan/Show/Santino/Khali/Rhodes EC


----------



## Raw2003 (Dec 20, 2012)

WWE Insurrextion June 7th 2003 Match card & Review: Women's championship
Trish vs. Jazz (c) with Theodore Long 
Pretty good match 3/5

Intercontinental Chamionship
Booker T vs. Christian (c)
3/5 dragged on a bit for me 

World Tag Team Championship
La Resistance vs. RVD & Kane (c)
A pretty good match 3/5

Rico vs. Goldust

2/5 pretty poor match only saved by Goldust in ring ability 
Six Man Tag Team Match
Bubba, D-Von & Spike vs. Chris Nowinski, Rodney Mack & Theodore Long great enjoyable match 3/5
the Highlight Reel with Chris Jericho, Eric Bischoff & Stone Cold
5/5 really entertaining as Jericho really bit into the English crowd and even did some of the common insults and Austin even said pints which was great, of course you know how the segment ends with Stone Cokd giving them both the stunner while drinking beer.
Scott Steiner with Stacy Kiebler vs. Test
Special Guest Referee: Val Venis
3/5 pretty bland match, not bad

World Heavyweight Championship Street Fight
Kevin Nash w/ Shawn Michaels vs. HHH w/ Ric Flair
5/5 this was by far the best match on the PPV as it actually felt like a real WWE main event and that Kevin Nash might actually win the title and it was much better than their more high profile hell in a cell match a week later at Bad Blood. Overall the PPV was a decent 3/5 stars with decent extras including Christian chasing some sheep and talking to his European peeps as well as prime Trish looking sexy as he'll in a Robin Hood outfit looking doing the secret tunnel of the Nottingham castle and finally we have a quick round up video of the PPV and about 5 post match interviews.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Yeah I am one of the very few people to have the second Roode/Aries match over the first. Honestly can't remember why I liked it more, but I know I did .
> 
> ***** for the SS 98 ladder match? I'd struggle to give it **. One of the worst ladder matches ever imo.


I guess I am being generous. ****-****1/2 is probably the most accurate. I think a ** is lowballing it though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Benoit vs Guerrero at Armageddon 2002, **** from me.

These two, like Eddie and Rey, are probably incapable of having a bad singles match. I've yet to see one I'd rate below ***3/4 when they are given proper time. I hold the Vengeance match in slightly higher regard than this one, because Eddies character work and control segment was just so superb. Not to say he wasn't still great in this one, because he was, he jut seemed more comfortable with his character by the time Vengeance 2003 rolled around. One thing I didn't like was Benoit spamming the Germans in the middle (we don't need 8 frigging Germans in a row, Chris) but really other than that and the stupid Chavo interference, there wasn't one thing is change here.

Eddie and Benoits best match will always be at best of super juniors in 1996, that was a flawless ***** wrestling spectacle and one of the greatest matches I've ever seen. Armageddon still holds up from what I remembered. Bottom line, nobody has ever been better than Eddie and Benoit in the ring. There have been others who might have been AS good for certain lengths of time, but for me, they will always be the gold standard for wrestling.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I tried to watch that super juniors match but couldnt get into it at all, I guess I just dont like mat-wrestling that much idk


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still don't think I've seen that Japan match between the two lol. Only seen their 94 match when Eddie is Black Tiger that was on the Benoit DVD.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

2012 is so stacked that Sheamus/Show doesn't even make my list.

10. Punk/Henry 4/2
9. Punk/Jericho WM
8. Punk/Bryan MITB
7. Punk/Cena NoC
6. Punk/Jericho ER
5. Bryan/Sheamus ER
4. Lesnar/Cena
3. Undertaker/HHH
2. 6 Man TLC
1. Punk/Bryan OTL


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have never seen sheamus/show took a hiatus from wrestling during that


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Show/Sheamus is definitely worth a watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Still don't think I've seen that Japan match between the two lol. Only seen their 94 match when Eddie is Black Tiger that was on the Benoit DVD.


That's a good one too, but that Super Juniors one is just unreal. They beat each other senseless, it's not a sports entertainment type match, it's an entertaining sport kind of match, if you know what I mean.

Redskins- to each their own, I know that ground and pound "shoot fight" style of wrestling isn't for everyone. I know a lot of people prefer the Taker/Trips WM27/28 style that's all about story telling and not necessarily about technical/mat wrestling. That's just never been my favorite style of wrestling, although for matches like HBK-Flair WM24 I can really get into it, it just depends on the case.

For the record, I'm not just a blanket hater of everything Trips/Taker, I LOVE their WM17 match and consider it the best of the bunch. Might even be my favorite match on that show, in fact yes, I prefer Taker/Trips to Rocky/Austin at mania 17, how bout them apples.


Edit- Shield vs PISSED OFF BIG SHOW in a 3-1 Handicap match on Smackdown tonight :mark: :mark: I dunno everyone's opinions on Mr. Show, but a pissed off Giant laying waste to mother fuckers is one of my favorite things in all wrestling:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Despite my complete disdain for 2012, there were some great matches and the best I can think of are:

Lesnar/Cena - ER
Taker/HHH - WM
Sheamus/Bryan - ER
Jericho/Punk - WM
Shield/Hell No & Ryback - TLC
Sheamus/Show - HIAC
Rock/Cena - WM (yeah, I don't care what anyone says)
Cena/Punk - NoC

Also Eddie vs Benoit from Armageddon rules.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Despite my complete disdain for 2012, there were some great matches and the best I can think of are:
> 
> Lesnar/Cena - ER
> Taker/HHH - WM
> ...



Honestly, I don't hate Once in a Lifetime as much as others on here, it's easily the best match Rocky has had since his come back (not saying much because RR was a DUD, EC gets **, and WM29 gets **) but I actually did find myself marking a bit during the match. It wasn't at Hogan/Rocky WM18 levels or anything, but I did enjoy their match at WM28. I wouldn't put it in my personal top 10 for the year or anything, but it wasn't bad at all.

C2D- I know you aren't a Punk fan, but even so I find it a little surprising you didn't like OTL or MitB Punk-Bryan. I think those are two DAMN good matches, OTL especially had me on the edge of my seat for 25 straight minutes.

Edit- Somebody call Redskins, Ziggler is facing ADR on Smackdown next. P.s., ADR is AWFUL on the stick, good lord he managed to completely botch that 30 second promo about as bad as you can "I'm going to use a trash can. Except I'm going to put RVD in the trash can. Then I'm going to send him back to the dump he came from." :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Punk MITB doesn't deserve to get anywhere near the top 10 (hell, top 20) matches of 2012. Was good, nothing more. Same for Punk/Jericho ER. Overrated as hell and got NOTHING on their previous matches (OTL and WM respectively obviously). And MITB is just such a disappointment because it COULD have been amazing with just such a slight change in how it was booked with AJ and the weapons... I swear I hate the match more any time it's BROUGHT UP, never mind seeing it again (something I avoid tbh) :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

next on smackdown :mark:

my top 5 2012 would be

cena/lesnar
punk/bryan otl
6 man tag tlc
punk/cena noc
punk/bryan mitb

there is a couple of TV escaping the mind right now


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Bryan/Punk MITB doesn't deserve to get anywhere near the top 10 (hell, top 20) matches of 2012. Was good, nothing more. Same for Punk/Jericho ER. Overrated as hell and got NOTHING on their previous matches (OTL and WM respectively obviously). And MITB is just such a disappointment because it COULD have been amazing with just such a slight change in how it was booked with AJ and the weapons... I swear I hate the match more any time it's BROUGHT UP, never mind seeing it again (something I avoid tbh) :lmao.




I don't like Punk-Jericho from ER, it just was not good. I'll never watch that one again, that's for sure. I did really like the Bryan-Punk match at MitB though. Not as nearly much as OTL, but I still think i gave it something like ***3/4 last time I watched it. Thought they tried a little too hard with the AJ storytelling, biut other than that I thoroughly enjoyed it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

***1/4 for Ziggler-Sandow on Smackdown. That was fun, those two have great chemistry. Too bad they didn't screw the finish or do a DQ, making Ziggler tap right before Battleground is never good. Usually I'd say that means he's gonna win on The PPV, but Sandow has been almost irrelevant since he won the briefcase, I think Ziggler is taking the fall this weekend.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> I tried to watch that super juniors match but couldnt get into it at all, I guess I just dont like mat-wrestling that much idk


It wasn't even a mat wrestling match, are you sure you weren't watching the 94 J-Cup (not that I remember that being a mat-wrestling match either, but that's because I don't remember it period)? The 96 match is mostly ingeniously worked around the sleeper hold.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Honestly, I don't hate Once in a Lifetime as much as others on here, it's easily the best match Rocky has had since his come back (not saying much because RR was a DUD, EC gets **, and WM29 gets **) but I actually did find myself marking a bit during the match. It wasn't at Hogan/Rocky WM18 levels or anything, but I did enjoy their match at WM28. I wouldn't put it in my personal top 10 for the year or anything, but it wasn't bad at all.
> 
> C2D- I know you aren't a Punk fan, but even so I find it a little surprising you didn't like OTL or MitB Punk-Bryan. I think those are two DAMN good matches, OTL especially had me on the edge of my seat for 25 straight minutes.


Yeah, once in a lifetime did what it had to do. 5-10 minutes could have been cut but with what they got, they made the best out of it. Electric crowd, great nearfalls and some cool spots like Rock doing the Crossbody near the end. Truly felt like a special match, I remember that night like it was yesterday. The excitement and all that.

As for Punk vs Bryan. I think MITB is average AT BEST. Used to downright _hate_ it but a rewatch brought it up a bit. I hate the booking because Punk looks superman strong and AJ completely ruined it with her involvement. Unsurprisingly, the match was at its best when she was "out" for about 10 or so minutes of it. OTL was amazing the night I saw it first but I rewatched it a while later and it felt rather boring and try hard.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/Del Rio was very good, tell you man those two can go in ring. Breaks my heart see how things have gone since Payback for zig zag but I'm starting to sound like a broken record so I'll stop

If only ADR had a ounce of charisma and mic skills ? Good lord


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Ziggler/Del Rio was very good, tell you man those two can go in ring. Breaks my heart see how things have gone since Payback for zig zag but I'm starting to sound like a broken record so I'll stop
> 
> If only ADR had a ounce of charisma and mic skills ? Good lord


I think that it's my favorite of theirs since Payback, though I came in late, and missed the first half of it, so maybe I'm not judging too accurately.

But yeah, that just inspired me to wish even more for better short-term plans for Dolph.

Shame that ADR isn't connecting. He does have charisma to me, but I guess by definition he doesn't, since he's not overtly connecting with the masses. Too bad. They really should make him a darker character. I loved the idea of him being a drug lord type figure (though not in a cheesy overt way. Just more of an unspoken thing). Black suit, black tie, black shirt, shades, not saying much....unapologetically evil. THEY COULD DO SO MUCH WITH HIM! It irritates me.

I really think that they need more actual wrestlers on the writing team. I feel like they'd know more what to do with a person who brings certain mannerisms and traits to the table.

This landlord bullshit has got me rolling my eyes. So much so that I fast forwarded right through it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> It wasn't even a mat wrestling match, are you sure you weren't watching the 94 J-Cup (not that I remember that being a mat-wrestling match either, but that's because I don't remember it period)? The 96 match is mostly ingeniously worked around the sleeper hold.



That match is just ingenious period. In Eddies book he said he and Chris where just taking out all their frustrations from WCW out on each other, it's just amazing how intense it was. One of the greatest matches I've ever seen, it's on YouTube in 3 separate parts if any are interested in checking it out. 

Are there any more Eddie-Benojt matches I'm missing out on?

1994 Super J Cup
Nitro 10-1995
Best of Super Juniors 1996
Armageddon 2002
Vengeance 2003
One Night Stand 2005
Smackdown 2005


Are the ones I've seen. I'm talking singles matches only.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They have like 20 in WCW on TV lol .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> It wasn't even a mat wrestling match, are you sure you weren't watching the 94 J-Cup (not that I remember that being a mat-wrestling match either, but that's because I don't remember it period)? The 96 match is mostly ingeniously worked around the sleeper hold.


I'm not really sure man, it may be, I remember you were the one who said that their is a match most mistake for the great one, see this match was ALL mat-wrestling, just consited of both switch holds on one other



LilOlMe said:


> I think that it's my favorite of theirs since Payback, though I came in late, and missed the first half of it, so maybe I'm not judging too accurately.
> 
> 
> Shame that ADR isn't connecting. He does have charisma to me, but I guess by definition he doesn't, since he's not overtly connecting with the masses. Too bad. They really should make him a darker character. I loved the idea of him being a drug lord type figure (though not in a cheesy overt way. Just more of an unspoken thing). Black suit, black tie, black shirt, shades, not saying much....unapologetically evil. THEY COULD DO SO MUCH WITH HIM! It irritates me.
> ...


It was pretty good, they always have good-MOTYC matches starting with their first sd match and the main event,

I think ADR should just use his in-ring ability as his gimmick


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> They have like 20 in WCW on TV lol .


Yea, but those are impossible to find online! God I just need to sack up and get the 36 disc Eddie set from someone, it's a tragedy that I don't own all of his great matches.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Jeff Hardy vs Triple H series:

Armageddon '07 - ***3/4
No Mercy '08 - ****1/2
Cyber Sunday '08 - ****

All three own but the NM match is just fantastic.

HBK/Jericho '08 series:

Judgment Day - ****
The Bash - ****1/4
Summerslam - AWESOME segment
Unforgiven - ***3/4
No Mercy - ****1/2

Another epic feud, much stronger story than the HHH/Jeff one and some real great matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Back from the Football game. My school got killed 0-38 :lol. oh well, watching Hart/perfect SS 91 now, so good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I blame WWE's awful booking as to why Del Rio isn't connecting with fans from a character perspective. You see the way he's booked? No one could get over like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus, there's one more noteworthy Eddie/Benoit match you didn't list (pulled it from one of my old Japan reviews):

_Best Of The Super Juniors II - Semi Final
Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus (Chris Benoit) - *** 3/4
7/13/1995_

If you happen to find a video where the two are facing off and Benoit is wearing RED trunks, that's the one. I'm gonna keep searching for it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

If they ever put work into Del Rio, I could see him doing quite well with the fanbase.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My school's playing on ESPN right now. :bryan

I'm not sure why Del Rio is so incredibly un-over, but I still appreciate his in-ring work. And once the game's over, I'll either play GTA Online (if it doesn't bug out on me :side or watch my MITB 2011 DVD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They stop short with the guy at all levels and it's...weird. They want him to be kind of a big deal since he got there, yet they do next to nothing with him other than putting on great wrestling matches. Sure, that won me over, but not everyone is like that. His "dark" brutal side has shown more since going heel at Payback, but still not too much behind it as a full character is concerned. It's frustrating. Focus less on his ethnic background and more on him in general as a character.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm hoping WWE does some good character work with Del Rio once this "feud" with RVD is over. Feud is in quotes because I'm not exactly sure why they're feuding, how RVD got the shot, and how many times they've even interacted the past month and a half.

Wait, aren't they feuding over Ricardo or something stupid like that? Bleh. :side:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

The Primer said:


> They stop short with the guy at all levels and it's...weird. They want him to be kind of a big deal since he got there, yet they do next to nothing with him other than putting on great wrestling matches. Sure, that won me over, but not everyone is like that. His "dark" brutal side has shown more since going heel at Payback, but still not too much behind it as a full character is concerned. It's frustrating. Focus less on his ethnic background and more on him in general as a character.


It would be so easy to just make him a more sadistic person and maybe ditch the scraps from his old gimmick and just become a pure evil wealthy person. He's had shades of awesome stuff since his 2nd heel turn. 

They really pull this shit all the time though. The McIntyre push still kills me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Please. No McIntyre mentions. My heart hurts. 

Del Rio needs to start wearing the suit and acting like a rich tyrant who's seriously deadly. I mean it. Bond villain style. Look what he does to his employees when they fail him. That's awesome. He'll do that to anyone who crosses his path in an unfavorable manner. If only they enhance it a touch more with actual emphasis & exposure, _(give the man some segments)_ I'm certain it would rock.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Del Rio is just like your hero Sheamus. They just don't have the natural connection with the crowd that true main eventers have. Deal with it.

ADR/Ziggler was really good. Chalk another one up for Smackdown.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

They should give Del Rio the gimmick where he's fired and stays off WWE TV forever. 

Seriously, even his strong suit, his in-ring work, does nothing for me and we have guys like Cesaro, Sheamus, Ziggler, Bryan, and Punk who are a lot more entertaining in-ring. Everything else about Del Rio just sucks, and while he might not be getting the push of the century, he's doing better than just about everyone else who's come in the last 3 years. RR winner, 2x World Champ, 2x WWE Champ, fought for the World Title 2 out of 2 times at Mania and is constantly given something relevant. Honestly, I think the character is fine, and the execution is fine as he does get plenty beatdowns on faces he's up against. The man himself though is full of... well, nothingness. He can't sustain heat despite all the efforts put into him. He doesn't connect with the American audience. He might for the Latinos, which is good for them I suppose, but even then that hardly justifies the push he gets in the WWE. I get that WWE wants to keep a hold on that audience, but there has to be a better option out there, right? I mean, surely Del Rio isn't the peak of that talent pool, although I'm certainly not one who would know.

Ah well, Vince seems to love Del Rio, so he's in for the long haul and it's probably always going to be one of the sour spots for the next few years. Knowing this, I've really tried to like the guy and get into him, but I just can't. I just wish he'd go away... or at least that he'd stop feuding with guys I like so I can use his time as a piss break weekly.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Please. No McIntyre mentions. My heart hurts.
> 
> Del Rio needs to start wearing the suit and acting like a rich tyrant who's seriously deadly. I mean it. Bond villain style. Look what he does to his employees when they fail him. That's awesome. He'll do that to anyone who crosses his path in an unfavorable manner. If only they enhance it a touch more with actual emphasis & exposure, _(give the man some segments)_ I'm certain it would rock.


I'm all in on ADR as a "Bond villain" type, Maybe like Le Chiffre from Casino Royal. I can't decide whether they should give him MORE mic time and allow him to get better and find his character more, or find a more fitting manager type (not another ring announcer, a real honest to goodness manager). Maybe they could do both, give him a Virgil type manager to do his dirty work, and still allow him to cut his own promos. He just needs more mic time I think, that's really the only way to get better.

I DO think having someone with him to cheat and such will get him over as a heel better. If he just becomes more dark and vicious, he might end up with people actually liking his character, which is a problem a lot of heels have. Not to always bring up Foley but, that was the problem he had getting over and staying over as a heel in WCW, he didn't cheat enough. People ended up respecting him too much and it turned him baby face.

Bottom line, Del Rio is far too good in the ring for WWE not to be helping his character in any way possible. That doesn't mean continuing to push him to the moon like they did early on with the Rumble and WWE title wins. That'll just keep fans feeling like he is being shoved down our throats, and won't generate real heat, just apathy.

I'll admit, while I enjoy his ring work, I really couldn't care less about the guy. I just feel like I've been force fed the guy for 3 solid years and not once have I ever related or even found myself caring about his character. Not once. Unfortunately, Sheamus is in the same boat for me. Love his ring work, just no fucks given about him and absolutely zero relatability. I'd rather see Cesaro get ADR's spot to see what he can do with it. Cesaro seems like he could be a GREAT Bond villain type.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I was gonna add your other hero Drew McIntyre in there too, but I guess he can deserve another chance :vince2

In all seriousness though, the subtle drug lord idea is really good. ADR's mic work is not very good, but there is so much room for subtle character developments and additions. I still really like face ADR. His feud with Big Show was great.

I can't say I'm completely joking about Sheamus though. He was given so much, but doesn't have enough to show for it. Perhaps a theme change could help.

EDIT: Ending of Smackdown was quite fun. Ambrose sold TKTKOJCARO pretty well.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sheamus should stay the same, only tone down the joking and add more intensity. You can't say he's not over either because he _is_. Not in the reliable way meaning you can expect a huge pop every time his music hits, but he's more over than most of the roster.

SHEAMUS rules too hard. Can't wait for his return!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well Drew isn't in the same boat b/c he never even got the chance to main event.

Del Rio's mic work isn't "good", but he's cut a solid promo before. It isn't impossible. And like I added, give the man some segments with the proposed character and I'm sure things can snowball into successes. It's all about putting him over in a way that's actually worth seeing. Not force feeding like back in 2011. Again, all personality & character wise. He's over enough once he wrestles. Which is why I understand the point by Cactus about how his in ring work isn't doing him any favors. It's like WWE only relies on that & they shouldn't. He's got the tools to be a top level wrestler down in the ring. Now lets complete it with that bit in persona ranks. Del Rio can actually add something more to his game, I'd say.

Sheamus is 100% established though. So I don't quite understand what you mean. Changing that glorious theme would be the worst.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've read they're bringing back Sheamus as a heel around Rumble time, so that should be fuckin great if so. Heel Sheamus vs. Face Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, etc. could all be magical. Plus a face Henry or Show? I'm in.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Heel Sheamus vs. face Bryan? :mark: 

As much as I disliked his giant push in 2012 and thought his jokes were awful (most faces' jokes tend to be), I do really miss Sheamus. The guy was a workhorse.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Say what you want about Sheamus's 2012 push, but MAN they really booked that guy well. There was like a 5 month period where the guy legit never lost a match. Even in the 2/3 Falls with Bryan, didn't technically lose a fall. That's how you book a strong, dominant champion. It also made Big Show's victory at HIAC much more meaningful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I love Sheamus as both a heel or face so I'm DOWN. Let the man fuck fools up. That's all I care.

He just needs to be back asap.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I wonder what Sheamus would've done if he weren't injured at MITB (I think that's when he was injured ). I'm sure he would've been in the WHC picture at one point, but I'd like to see his place in the current Corporation storyline.

Maybe he could've turned heel and been HHH's Corporate Champion/Workout Buddy/BFF! :troll


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

probably would be where RVD is


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus' losses felt big, but until he lost the title, the crowd really didn't care. For a guy that was supposed to be the #3 guy, he was getting outpopped by almost every heel he faced during his title reign. Yes, he looked very credible by the end of it, but that credibility did not translate to a #3 star level reaction. Hopefully this hiatus will help his reactions because he is a very special wrestler, but I don't know how anyone can argue that he has shown what it takes to be a main eventer.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't know what shows you were watching.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus' losses felt big, but until he lost the title, the crowd really didn't care. For a guy that was supposed to be the #3 guy, he was getting outpopped by almost every heel he faced during his title reign. Yes, he looked very credible by the end of it, but that credibility did not translate to a #3 star level reaction. Hopefully this hiatus will help his reactions because he is a very special wrestler, but I don't know how anyone can argue that he has shown what it takes to be a main eventer.


He was only "outpopped" by heels when in a smark town because they officially turned on him Cena-style after the 18 second nonsense.

EDIT: On the topic of Sheamus jokes, I find it funny how this forum was raging with anger after that debate segment with Big Show while I was laughing hysterically. "Rey Mysterio Sullivan", lol.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Well Drew isn't in the same boat b/c he never even got the chance to main event.
> 
> Del Rio's mic work isn't "good", but he's cut a solid promo before. It isn't impossible. And like I added, give the man some segments with the proposed character and I'm sure things can snowball into successes. *It's all about putting him over in a way that's actually worth seeing.* Not force feeding like back in 2011. Again, all personality & character wise. He's over enough once he wrestles. Which is why I understand the point by Cactus about how his in ring work isn't doing him any favors. It's like WWE only relies on that & they shouldn't. He's got the tools to be a top level wrestler down in the ring. Now lets complete it with that bit in persona ranks. Del Rio can actually add something more to his game, I'd say.
> 
> Sheamus is 100% established though. So I don't quite understand what you mean. Changing that glorious theme would be the worst.


This! Fucking this!

And btw, he has improved tremendously when it comes to mic work. Wish I could find it now, but I saw a promo from when he was first in FCW, and it was like a totally different guy. The lack of confidence was written all over his face, and even the sound of his voice was different. He lacked any sort of command or believability, and just seemed like a random commoner off the street. 

Made me kind of appreciate him more now, as I think that he actually puts a lot of work into his current persona, and it's a shame that they don't really do much with it, beyond a very surface-y level. 

Someone mentioned in another thread that he seems much more comfortable and commanding when speaking Spanish, and I think that's true too. I think that it was that night where Ziggler attacked him with a baseball bat during a celebration (the one with a red carpet and pinata). I was really struck by what a badass Del Rio seemed while speaking in Spanish, even though I didn't even understand it. So much more natural and at ease, and you could see his personality coming through too.

Other people have brought up Eddie before, but if I'm not mistaken, Eddie was born and raised here. Del Rio was born and raised in Mexico, and lived in Mexico until recently (he mentioned people from the WWE coming to his home in Mexico to sign him), so Spanish is obviously something that is much, much, more natural for him. Don't know when he started learning English, but if it was later in life, that's obviously much harder.

Having said that, I can understand how his problem with English may annoy some people, but it doesn't bother me, because I don't really expect much of a non-native speaker. I think he's clear enough that it's not bothersome. He's never gonna be as at ease as someone who's totally comfortable with the language, and that's too bad, but I find him effective enough when there's a clear direction (i.e. the Payback speech).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well Spanish is his first language so of course that's the case. However, this promotion isn't based out of Mexico. It's in the United States. It's a worldwide pormotion, yeah, but the universal language here is English. We're gonna need to understand what he's saying to follow.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

That's my point, though. I don't think that ADR's hard to understand at all. It's not always smooth...which is how pretty much all non-natives sound, unless they learned it at an early age. So I'm just saying if people find that to be aggravating, what exactly is the solution? It's like complaining about something that can't really be fixed quickly.

I'm not saying that anyone is wrong to feel that that aggravates them, I'm just saying...what exactly do you expect?

Now I'm realizing that maybe you're making that comment in regard to me saying that he's more comfortable in Spanish. I wasn't saying that that means that he should only speak in Spanish (though this would be a good way to irritate the audience if it were done correctly), it was just an aside. He has ability, it's just the lack of eloquence when it comes to the language barrier that holds him back. Oh well, not much can be done about that right now. But I don't think it's anywhere near unbearable.

And match quality will almost always take precedence over mic work for me anyway, so eh. I rarely go looking for promos.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't think it's worth focusing on. Randy Orton cuts promos that are 10x worse and he's in a good position. So it's irrelevant no matter how some want to think it is only the be all, end all within WWE.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I love Del Rio promos, I'm curious to see how he is gonna pronounce every word


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

he's got that good chemistry with Dolph Sigler.

_*hint hint*_


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

And CM Punk looks like a bump.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those damn bumps.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus is awesome. Del Rio is a good worker. I want HHH/Show to happen at the next PPV. What is the next PPV?

That's my contribution for the week.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell in a Cell.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Primer said:


> he's got that good chemistry with Dolph Sigler.
> 
> _*hint hint*_


:lmao :lmao I got it


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Primer said:


> Hell in a Cell.


Nice. HHH/Show could be a good co-main for that show. 

Does Orton/Bryan have a stip for Battleground? I'm guessing they'll headline HiAC as well.

Shield v Rhodes fam is by far the match I'm most looking forward to this Sunday.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao :lmao I got it


(Y)



Saint Dick said:


> Nice. HHH/Show could be a good co-main for that show.
> 
> Does Orton/Bryan have a stip for Battleground? I'm guessing they'll headline HiAC as well.
> 
> Shield v Rhodes fam is by far the match I'm most looking forward to this Sunday.


I'm wanting it to happen. Show is a great opponent for Triple H. I'll actually care to see it.

Nothing yet unless announced for Smackdown. Which I doubt.

Shield vs Cody & Goldust is def the clincher for Sunday. Can't wait for it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching my MITB 2011 DVD. I love this show, especially THE OPENING VIDEO PACKAGE :mark: 

After the Bryan vs. Orton feud (most likely) ends at HIAC, I'm hoping Bryan goes on to feud against HHH. With the news that Orton is gonna feud with The Big Show (what a mess those matches are gonna be), I'm hoping that this frees up Bryan to go over Haitch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't see the Danielson vs Triple H match coming through as a series. More of a one off thing. And if Danielson is a strong contender to win the Rumble, then perhaps Survivor Series or some kind of gimmick match for TLC to lead into it would be the right time. Unless they actually do hold off on it till WM. All with Danielson going over being the constant.

*note: I wouldn't want them to have a gimmick match. It would land on TLC and I'm kind of expecting WWE to HAVE to _(by their logic...)_ give 'em one if it does happen on the night.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

So I watched two random tags, because someone mentioned Dolph yelling at Mason Ryan, a la Orton's "stupid! stupid!" berating of Kofi.

It starts at the 3:29 mark here:






Dolph is pissed because Mason dropped him right on his head. "Are you kidding me?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!" :lol

It's funny, because I didn't know what the berating would be about, but I was watching another six man tag between these people from the month before (because I didn't know which video it would be):






...and thought to myself "wow, that Mason Ryan guy is rough as hell." So it's funny that the berating was due to him being unsafe.

Did he end up being de-pushed after this? Never heard of him.

But anyway, I came here to say that 'skins, Dolph was great in these matches. He sells that move of Mason's at the 6:06 mark in that second video I posted, so damn well. 

I really wish that he were a major player in a certain other storyline right now. 

funnyfaces1, what was that thought you had, that you said was so controversial that people would look at you differently? I'm paraphrasing, but you said something to that effect.

Btw, HayleySabin, I thought that Swagger's brute strength in these matches was awesome. Yet another guy that they're not using to his full potential. Just kind of pointlessly meandering about.

Also, that Evan Bourne guy sold the living shit out of that Swagger over the head "powerbomb" in the first video. Powerbomb doesn't seem like the right word for it, but that's what the broadcasters called it. Does he have a name for that move? Looked sick. Thanks in large part due to Bourne receiving it so well/quickly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm kinda pumped up for BG, tbh. Seems much more solid on paper than NOC.

Shield/Super Rhodes Bros should be fucking insane.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I agree, Swagger is quite fantastic yet he's another who's sort of there. I've admitted how that's kind of his own fault via his run in with the law earlier this year. He didn't deserve too much around that time b/c he was at fault. 100% fact and no fandom will erase the facts. However, it's been a good bit since that. I'd say the punishment has fit the crime and he should be able to move on. Unfortunately he's stuck in (wonderful) tag team with Antonio Cesaro which is doing more harm than good in terms of "career progression". I know all of these top talents can live and thrive at the top. Eventually one will fall a hair for the other, but the point here is to actually use them to the high level. We can't even get that. Which is where some more frustration derives from. 

WWE is more good than bad when it comes to their roster, I'd say. Yet, it feels as if all the plonkers are in the right place, right time atm. I know why though. Heels are still a strong melting pot of talent, meanwhile a large portion of faces are either injured or pre-disposed via angles. Leaves those open gaps for the other faces lying around to be forced to pick up the slack until those holes will be filled by the superior talent upon whichever of their returns. Rhodes is back & I'm so glad for it. Appears Goldust could stick around for a bit too. That's a face that's needed on the scene at this time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Are there any more Eddie-Benojt matches I'm missing out on?
> 
> 1994 Super J Cup
> Nitro 10-1995
> ...


Late reply b/c my day was full of evil schemes (I'm almost serious), but I put these on disc a while back - 
11/6/95
11/18/95
1/14/96
7/15/96 
11/18/96
12/23/96
10/20/97

All from WCW. I only have note of the date and not the show, so yeah.  I DO remember 11/18/95 is SN and 10/20/97 is Nitro.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saw some SHEAMUS talk. Hope he comes back soon . Guy is tremendous.

BG is 2morrow, right? LOL. Only interested in the tag match, and then the outcome of the WWE title match (not the actual match). 

:lmao Mason Ryan. What a useless bastard he is. Worst match I have EVER seen, not just in person but anything I've seen on TV or PPV (and I've seen some fucking STINKERS), was a Mason Ryan Vs Jack Swagger match in 2011 at a live event. Mason is horrible.

Swagger on the other hand has all the talent in the world but like so many guys in WWE doesn't appear to be able to show us what he can do half the time. 4 years ago he was setting the fucking world on fire in ECW. After 4 years he should be a fucking top player putting on the best matches in the company with the likes of Punk and Bryan etc. But no, they moved him from ECW, stuck him on Raw and forgot he existed for about 3 years. Then finally gave him a chance and he fucked up. But he's done his punishment so give him another chance again. Cesaro don't need to be in a team and neither does Swagger. RVD will have had 2 WHC matches in a row on PPV come BG and he fucked up with weed WHILE HOLDING 2 TITLES so they obviously don't give that much of a shit about getting caught with weed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mason Ryan had a good match this year, at least. Not saying I'm a fan, but it was good. vs Alexander Rusev on NXT.

Can't say I agree with you on the Swagger point 100%. Yeah, the move to RAW hurt. Not a surprise for the midcard to suffer there. He was good the bit he got to be on Superstars. Or I remember him to be. Have no idea if those Porter matches hold up. Probably not since I hate that fucker. But Swagger vs Primo was good. His 2010 was MUCHHHHHHHHHHH better. Until the end when he only wrestled Kofi, but everything else was good - great. Following that he's been impressive if he's had the right people to not bring down the quality. That seems to be the biggest flaw behind it more or less. The talent he's had to work with is awful & he couldn't quite get it up to a good carry job. Not everyone can be Cesaro in that realm.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

More matches confirmed for the 'History Of The WWE; DVD:



> *WWE Championship Match*
> Bret “Hitman” Hart vs. Shawn Michaels
> Survivor Series • November 9, 1997
> 
> ...


----------



## MB. (Aug 28, 2008)

Yesterday was the first time Ive watched wrestling in 2ish years. Help me out, what have I missed on the best shows and matches wise?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Anything involving BROCK LESNAR.

Watch it.

Taking down a bunch of HHH 2004 stuff (and HHH stuff in general) at the moment. Just watched his match with Maven in November and it was okay stuff, SIX PEOPLE interfering made me LOL though. TV matches w/ Shelton & Tajiri were fucking boss as anything, while the cage match with Eugene is certainly nothing to frown about either. About to check out the Benoit/Edge/HHH triple threat, a match I haven't seen since it aired but I remember enjoying it at the time (well not really, because HHH lost the belt but you know).


----------



## MB. (Aug 28, 2008)

You mean the UFC fighter?? Right?  On it!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Late reply b/c my day was full of evil schemes (I'm almost serious), but I put these on disc a while back -
> 11/6/95
> 11/18/95
> 1/14/96
> ...


Thanks a lot man, looks like I need to just sack the fuck up and buy the 36 disc Eddie set. It's long over due.

As for what you missed the past 2 years, check out the following-

Lesnar vs Punk from SS
Cena vs Bryan from SS
Lesnar vs Cena from ER
Bryan vs Sheamus from ER
Punk vs Taker from WM
Punk vs Bryan from OTL
Punk vs Jericho from WM
The Shield vs Hell No Ryback TLC
Cesaro vs Zayn 2/3 Falls from NXT
Punk vs Cena from NoC
Punk vs Cena from Raw Feb 2013
Ziggler vs ADR from Payback



Basically, you need to check out what Lesnar, Punk, Bryan, Cesaro, and The Shield have done this past year or so, absolutely.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Taking down a bunch of HHH 2004 stuff (and HHH stuff in general) at the moment. Just watched his match with Maven in November and it was okay stuff, SIX PEOPLE interfering made me LOL though. TV matches w/ Shelton & Tajiri were fucking boss as anything, while the cage match with Eugene is certainly nothing to frown about either. About to check out the Benoit/Edge/HHH triple threat, a match I haven't seen since it aired but I remember enjoying it at the time (well not really, because HHH lost the belt but you know).


Have you seen the tag match from 20/9/04 with Evolution against Benoit, Orton and Shelton? That's one match always getting overlooked like so many other great tags including the 3/5 match you mentioned a few days ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> More matches confirmed for the 'History Of The WWE; DVD:


Well, looks like the match selection for the set is gonna SUCK hard. Only Cena/Punk being on the set is :mark: worthy. Everything else is repeats or shite. And Cena/Punk SHOULD be a repeat too when they bring out the best of raw and sd set. Looks like I'll just be downloading the doc .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

MB said:


> Yesterday was the first time Ive watched wrestling in 2ish years. Help me out, what have I missed on the best shows and matches wise?


Cena/Lesnar
Punk/Cena MitB 2011 (provided you stopped before that; if so, look at the entire angle)
Punk/Taker Wrestlemania 2013
HHH/Lesnar Extreme Rules 2013
Cena/Daniel Bryan Summerslam 2013
The Shield Vs Bryan/Kane/Ryback TLC 2012
Punk/Cena Raw February 2013
The Cesaro/Sami Zayne trilogy in NXT


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Jeff Hardy vs Triple H- Armageddon 2007- ***1/2
Jeff Hardy vs Triple h vs Edge Armageddon 2008- ***1/4
HHH vs Goldust- WM13- **1/2

Just some matches from the WWE YT channel


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

These Evolution tags are fucking fantastic as C2D said before. Think Shield 2013 in terms of delivering the goods every single week for you guys who weren't around to see it every single week. 

I'm watching the Benoit Vs HHH/Orton handicap match/segment on the Summerslam 2004 go home show, and Benoit's intensity is just off the fucking charts. That motherfucker takes on Orton & HHH at the same time and just charges at them recklessly like a maniac, BALLZ. Also watched HHH destroy Regal multiple times and it made me warm with NOSTALGIA, dude was only behind Benoit/Eddie that year for me in terms of work, GOD DAMN.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I might be the only one who thinks that Randy Orton had a better 2004 than Eddie Guerrero.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Well ACTUALLY I'm looking through Eddie's 2004 right now and i think that despite having some of his best matches that year w/ JBL & Big Show.... He was involved in alot of MEH stuff due to booking. Match with Angle at Summerslam is trash, match with Rey is okay I guess, but he has shit like his match with Luther Reigns that's kind of like "WHY DID YOU BOOK THIS"?

Benoit Vs HHH/Orton is great. Built a ton of heat leading into Summerslam and made Benoit look insane, also set the seeds for the very soon Orton/HHH feud. They just work over Benoit who shows flashes of resiliency throughout the contest, beast. *** 3/4* but that rating might not even do the match justice in terms of what it accomplished.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I've seen the handicap tag but don't remember anything from it. Skipped over it when doing my Orton list, so it may be worth another watch.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I might be the only one who thinks that Randy Orton had a better 2004 than Eddie Guerrero.


I actually agree with you although it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. Eddie was incredible but he was surrounded by the sea of mediocrity that was Smackdown that year so for the most part, he had to go the extra length to put on great matches since he got quality opponents only once in a while. (JBL, BROCK, Rey)

Orton was part of a great roster and always having great matches, whether tag matches or singles, on both TV and PPV. He also had it easier which I wont simply ignore because Eddie is obviously the better talent.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I feel as if Eddie might have been at one of the best stages of his career yet never got to go into GOD MODE due to being surrounded by shit for a majority of the year, not his fault at all. 

HHH-Jericho from October 2004 is up. CHAMPION VS CHAMPION. Keep the 2004 HHH coming.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wonder if, bar 30% of the Trips/Shawn feud, and in some ways Eugene, was there anything that didn't work on Raw 04.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Eight Man Tag on the Raw before Backlash between Evolution and Benoit/HBK/Foley/Shelton is AWESOME, as is Edge/Benoit/Jericho vs Flair/Orton/Batista (No Trips because it was the night after Bad Blood) on June 14 of that year, which is an elimination match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> I wonder if, bar 30% of the Trips/Shawn feud, and in some ways Eugene, was there anything that didn't work on Raw 04.


Diva's search. Besides that, it's still the best brand split year for RAW with no competition. A shame that the show fell off so much in 2005.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The elimination match is the best of all the tags, which says a lot about it. Goes for like 30 minutes. The very same match-up two weeks before SummerSlam is also great. (2/8/04)



funnyfaces1 said:


> Diva's search. Besides that, it's still the best brand split year for RAW with no competition. A shame that the show fell off so much in 2005.


Fell off? LOLNO. But I admit the 2005 draft led into a worser era.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Divas Search had BOOBS, ASSES and gave me Christy Hemme. So that worked imo 

05 was probably weaker on Raw but overall it was much superior than 04.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Eight Man Tag on the Raw before Backlash between Evolution and Benoit/HBK/Foley/Shelton is AWESOME,


LOVE this match, watched the whole episode recently, the promos of hbk for the BL match :mark: its crazy the considered the wm 20 match the GOAT mania match after it happened


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

zep81 said:


> More matches confirmed for the 'History Of The WWE; DVD:


Not really complaining about those three. I don't believe I own the Montreal Screwjob on any set, Rock/Hogan is fine with me because I think it's on the first Rock 3 discer (but that's honestly NEVER been in my dvd player ), and I know nothing about the 6-man from Tribute to the Troops. Looking relatively decent thus far.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just checked out that Edge/Benoit/Trips match from 11/2004 for the World Title. Awesome match, and I guess the finish kind of made sense. No one looked weak, but Benoit really deserved another title reign. Guy was fucking bossing all over the place.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Yeah, I feel as if Eddie might have been at one of the best stages of his career yet never got to go into GOD MODE due to being surrounded by shit for a majority of the year, not his fault at all.
> 
> HHH-Jericho from October 2004 is up. CHAMPION VS CHAMPION. Keep the 2004 HHH coming.



I'd have to agree with you on that front, unfortunately. Eddie knocked it out of the park with Lesnar (still one of my all time favorite matches), JBL (Judgement Day is another favorite of all time, and one of the finest baby face performances you are ever likely to see, and GAB bull rope was vicious too) Big Show (Smackdown match with the wrench is another AMAZING baby face performance by Eddie) Rey, and even Angle at WM20 is a lot better than most people give credit for. But he simply did not have enough good opponents other than the ones listed to qualify for a truly GOAT year.

The best part about Eddie is, in 2004 he had some of the finest baby face performances in the history of wrestling, then he followed it up in 2005 with some of the best heel work I've ever seen. It's such a shame that Eddie really only hit his stride in WWE in 2002-2003 and was gone before 2005 was over. I'll always wonder what his match with HBK at Wm22 would have been like.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Awesome match. Look at the rotation of The Rock's hips when he does that powerslam.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I don't like the new funnyfaces... go back to Henry! :argh:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I won't return until Callamus admits to the glory of the great one!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

People forget that Sean Waltman could really go in the ring. That Bret match on Raw is among my favorite Raw matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I won't return until Callamus admits to the glory of the great one!


Ha.

X-Pac > The Rock :agree:.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Older Bret Hart match set review​*
*Disc 1 + 2​*
*Match # 1: The Hart Foundation vs the British bulldogs( MSG 7/13/85)*

Okay, Jimmy Hart was a very underrated manager IMO, he is hilarious here with his megaphone at ringside blaring instructions to Monsoon who just ignores him :lol. Pretty boring match for the most part, the ending was fun, until it ended in a draw, but that was more common back then. Anyways still fun, not the best though. **

*Match # 2: The Hart Foundation vs The Killer Bees ( MSG 2/17/86)*

This was FUN. Nothing too fancy but it just defines the Hart Foundation and the Killer Bees. These too just went back and for a good 20 minutes and they really have good chemistry. It ended in a time limit but it was really fun. Definitely a solid recommendation here. *** ½*

*Match # 3: Bret Hart vs Ricky Steamboat( Boston Garden 3/8/86)*

I’ve never seen this but man was it fun, a good 10-15 minute match that rarely felt slow at all. Could of used without Alfred Hayes at commentary but Jimmy Hart made it much more bearable with his funny heel work. Steamboat and Hart actually have awesome chemistry that it made the match really fun. Don’t know if we got another match out of these two but this was good if this was it. A good choice to begin disc 2. ***

*Match # 4: Bret Hart vs Ted Dibiase( Odessa TX, 3/8/89)
*
VIRGIL IS HERE, but who cares? Anyway another match that looks to be promising and I’ve never seen it before. There’s no commentary so it must have been at a house show. This is a real hidden gem of a match. So good even though its kind of hard to get into without commentary. Virgil and Dibiase are great heels and you can really see that Bret will one day be an awesome singles wrestler. IDK if this is a well known bout but it should be, fun stuff. *** ¾* 

*Match # 5: The Hart Foundation vs the Rockers( SNME 4/28/90)*

Cool that this is the only Hart/HBK interaction on this as that shit has been released enough. Anyways this was a shit match that ended in DQ after interference. Stupid match is stupid and 4 out of the first 5 matches have ended in DQ…DUD. 

*Match # 6: The Hart Foundation vs the nasty Boys( WM VII)*

I forget who the nasty boys were but this was a really fun match, I wish the Piper match made it on this set because that was a truly awesome fight. This is a relatively short match but it was awesome for the time it got. Not really dull at any time but Jimmy Hart is at ringside for the nasty boys and they nastily( gettit ) steal the titles. ***

*Match # 7: Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect( SS 1991) *

I’ve really wanted to see this match for quite some time as I’ve heard its fun. It really was Bret’s first breakout match with his first title win as well. This is my first viewing and I must say that this is one of my all time favorite Bret matches. It is SO GOOD. Everything seems to just click with fucking perfection. I have not seen a ton of Perfect but he is just as fucking good as Bret here, because that is how you work as a heel. If you haven’t seen this, watch it now! **** ¾*

*Match # 8: Bret Hart vs the British Bulldog( SS 1992)*

This match, while good, is VERY different then the perfect/Hart match that I just watched. It is really long and pretty slow. Its not as good as the perfect match IMO because it is really slow. However, it still is a decent match despite being a little overrated. The hot crowd is fun and the fact that these guys really are brothers in law makes the match a little different but its not like these guys have some amazing chemistry. With that said, its still a good and historical match that would help Bret win his first WWF title a few months later. ***

*Match # 9: Bret Hart vs Bam Bam Bigelow( Spain 4/24/93)*

Damn it the commentary is in Spanish :lol. Why is this match included? Their in a half empty arena and the commentary is in Spanish. This better be a fucking classic . it wasn’t anything special TBH and the Spanish took me out of the match. * 

*Match # 10: Bret Hart vs Mr.Perfect( KOTR 1993)*

HOLY SHIT MACHO MAN IS ON COMMENTARY!! This is a huge step up from the Spanish shit :lol. I loved the SS match and I have heard this is just as good. This was a fun match but really doesn’t compare to SS. This match really is a little slower and has a good amount of slow mat wrestling compared to the fast paced brawl style of the SS match. Nevertheless, its still tons of fun. *** ¾*

*Match # 11: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart( WM X)*

This is a great decision to end disc 2 like this. This imo is the greatest opening match of all time. Hese two have beautiful chemistry that you can not really find anywhere else. King is awesome as a heel on commentary as is the perfect ignorant heel. A good 20 minute bout that would prove Owen Hart as a star and further cement Bret as one of the all time greats. Also nice that Owen went over. I’ve seen people the full 5 and I would certainly understand this because its so great. **** ¾*


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I seem to recall loving that Bam Bam Bigelow match, everything I've seen from those two I've really liked in fact. I also would go a full star higher on the Mr. Perfect KOTR match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Might be thinking of the KOTR match? This one was Really Meh


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Might be thinking of the KOTR match? This one was Really Meh


I've seen the one from Spain a couple times, more than I've seen the KOTR one actually. Perhaps it's a guilty pleasure, but I do enjoy it.

They had one on RAW from around this time that I enjoyed too, Lawler is in the crowd with Stu & Helen.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

to each is own I prefer perfect/hart KOTR to the summerslam


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I legitimately have every match on that Bret Hart set at or above four stars.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Man, just rewatched SS 2013 and it was such an awesome event. Wish WWE had another show in that level, Battleground could've been something similar because the atmosphere will be amazing (NY) but the card is good but nothing looks like it could be MOTYC. Hopefully SVS will be big this year.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh yeah, they're in Buffalo tomorrow. Should be pretty good, obviously not MSG or Brooklyn, but still should be good. Shield/Rhodes should be really good, and I think RVD/Del Rio should be good with their "Battleground Hardcore Rules" lol) I have faith in Punk/Ryback, only because of Punk.

I always laugh at the many different names they have for "hardcore" matches. No Holds Barred, No DQ, Street Fight, hardcore, Extreme Rules.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I legitimately have every match on that Bret Hart set at or above four stars.




Yea, Smitty you really had some shockingly low ratings on there....that Harts vs Bulldogs tag is fucking awesome, as is the Bam Bam match (not as good as their KotR match, but still) and I think Summerslam and KotR with Perfect might both be worthy of the "Full 5", slight edge to KotR as my favorite. That Rockers tag is hot, and the nasties tag at mania was very very good. The nasties can have some great brawls, check the one they had against Cactus Jack and Maxx Payne at Spring Stampede in Chicago. That Ricky Steamboat match is tremendous too.

For me, the Bret hart set has the greatest selection of matches of any set ever released. Between the Bulldog match at IYH, the Owen matches at WM and White Plains, the Stone Cold match, and the two Mr. Perfect matches, that's 6, count em' 6 matches that if someone gave it 5 stars I wouldn't disagree, including the GOAT match vs Stone Cold. 7 if you count the Bulldog match at Summerslam, however I just see that one as the greatest carry job in wrestling history more so than a true 5 star match. The story telling is impeccable in it, just too many rest holds for me to be that high on it.

If they had just added the Cage match vs Owen at Summerslam and the 10 man tag at Canadien Stampede, that would bring the grand total to 9 matches that could conceivably warrant 5 stars. Say what you want about Bret's 1996-1997 run, but you can't anything away from him as far as having a laundry list of all time great matches. He is in that same rarified air as HBK, Undertaker, Rey, Benoit, Foley and Eddie as the greatest workers in wrestling history.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'll just have to disagree with the Bigelow match, maybe ** at the most. 

The rest I probably fucked up on. I watched this shit at like three in the morning so IDK if I had my full investment. I'll watch disc 3 later tonight and I know that has at least one ***** match in SCSA/Hart match. Haven't seen any of the others.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not too excited about Battleground tomorrow, but I'll still have it streaming while the Texans vs. 49ers game is on. Shield vs. Cody and Goldust should be a lot of fun, and I'm hoping Bryan vs. Orton has a good ending, since the feud's gonna extend to HIAC.

Hopefully Buffalo does a good job of emulating Brooklyn and NYC and gives the show a good atmosphere, because the card's pretty lacking. HIAC will be in front of a (most likely) dead Atlanta crowd, and then Survivor Series (which I'm hoping is BIG), will be in Boston :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> Not too excited about Battleground tomorrow, but I'll still have it streaming while the Texans vs. 49ers game is on. Shield vs. Cody and Goldust should be a lot of fun, and I'm hoping Bryan vs. Orton has a good ending, since the feud's gonna extend to HIAC.
> 
> Hopefully Buffalo does a good job of emulating Brooklyn and NYC and gives the show a good atmosphere, because the card's pretty lacking. HIAC will be in front of a (most likely) dead Atlanta crowd, and then Survivor Series (which I'm hoping is BIG), will be in Boston :mark:


HIAC's in Atlanta? Why do they insist on going back to Atlanta? 

Anyways, I'll have the BRAVES game on while watch BG.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Wait no, it's in Miami. It was in Atlanta last year fpalm. Fuck me.

Ah well, Miami sucks when ROCK~! doesn't show up and Mania isn't there, so I stand by what I said


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Wait no, it's in Miami. It was in Atlanta last year fpalm. Fuck me.
> 
> Ah well, Miami sucks when ROCK~! doesn't show up and Mania isn't there, so I stand by what I said


Everywhere sucks when Rock isn't there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I may not even be home tomorrow night, but if I am, I'll try to find a stream. There's nothing on Battleground I'm interested in watching. Punk/Ryback could be a pleasant surprise as this type of match is arguably Punk's strong suit (where he can play the babyface in peril to damn near perfection). Bryan/Orton... meh, I'm not giving up on hoping for a great match because it is a Bryan match, but each time these two get in the ring together, my expectation lowers and lowers and lowers. It's not even that Orton is bad or anything, but the two have very little to no chemistry imo. I actually re-watched their NOC match earlier this week and while I don't remember what I originally had it at, I'd now probably give it at most ***. I mean, their matches aren't terrible, just terribly underwhelming considering their placement. And because of that, I'm not going into Battleground with any high expectations. I'm not even sure it'll be MOTN as RVD/Del Rio I'd put more stock in delivering that. 

Guess we'll find out tomorrow night (or I'll personally find out the next day).



> Everything sucks when Rock isn't there.


Fixed.

/Rock316AE


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

two matches into disc 3 and its 2 absolute GEMS. Best DVD I own at this point.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> two matches into disc 3 and its 2 absolute GEMS. Best DVD I own at this point.


Every single match on that 3rd disc is top-notch to me, except for the Owen White Plains one, though other people are high on that one.

Five of those matches are **** 1/2+ IMO, and the Hakushi match is ****.

As for your other star ratings, I don't really have a beef with your ratings, though I don't remember the Rockers match much. I too didn't like the Bam Bam match, but I do think you underrated KOTR vs Perfect. To me that's better than Summerslam, and is a masterpiece. My favorite Hennig match, and in my top 3 Bret matches.

@ rep (Cactus Jack), I have not seen the show, but it's funny that we were both thinking along the same lines regarding ADR.

@ HayleySabin, I wouldn't mind seeing Swagger as a Heyman guy instead of Ryback, but I'm sure this board would have gone nuts in a negative way, if that had happened.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I legitimately have every match on that Bret Hart set at or above four stars.





LilOlMe said:


> Every single match on that 3rd disc is top-notch to me, except for the Owen White Plains one, though other people are high on that one.
> 
> Five of those matches are **** 1/2+ IMO, and the Hakushi match is ****.
> 
> ...



Hakushi match is just awesome, another sleeper/sneaky all time great match is Bret vs Diesel at Survivor Series. That is some magnificent story telling. BY FAR Diesels best match ever.

No love for White Plains vs Owen??? Really? I've seen someone on here (can't remember who) say they preferred that match to their all time great match at Wrestlemania 10. While I won't go that far (I consider their Mania match a top 5 match in the history of Wrestlemania) I do still absolutely adore it. Those two could do no wrong in the ring, atleast for me.

It's funny to me that Bret had such great chemistry with Owen, Hennig, Bulldog, Diesel, and Austin, but not with HBK, who many consider his best rival. He never had a bad match that I'm aware of with any of those other guys, but all 3 of his matches with Shawn are not something I'd ever really want to watch again, especially Ironman.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Cactus Jack said:


> Hakushi match is just awesome, another sleeper/sneaky all time great match is Bret vs Diesel at Survivor Series. That is some magnificent story telling. BY FAR Diesels best match ever.
> 
> No love for White Plains vs Owen??? Really? I've seen someone on here (can't remember who) say they preferred that match to their all time great match at Wrestlemania 10. While I won't go that far


Bret vs. Diesel is **** 3/4. 

I'll have to watch it again. I never got through it. I think what threw me off is that it seemed like a retread of their WM X match, right from the very beginning. I think that was 'skins who said that he prefers that over WM X...probably because it's shorter.



> (I consider their Mania match a top 5 match in the history of Wrestlemania) I do still absolutely adore it. Those two could do no wrong in the ring, atleast for me.


Best match in history to me of what I've seen, though I've missed plenty since 2001/2002, so that could change.



> It's funny to me that Bret had such great chemistry with Owen, Hennig, Bulldog, Diesel, and Austin, but not with HBK, who many consider his best rival. He never had a bad match that I'm aware of with any of those other guys, but all 3 of his matches with Shawn are not something I'd ever really want to watch again, especially Ironman.


I'm the sole voice here who still likes HBK/Bret WMXII, so I'm not as down on their chemistry as everyone else. I think that they were a great match there, and I like SvS97 much more now that I used to, though that's mainly due to atmospherics and circumstances. 

Yeah, I vastly prefer ONO over Summerslam. Vastly. Glad you agree that ONO is good. Will be curious to hear smitty's thoughts on that match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just got back from the party, kinda mad some girl spilled beer on my $50 polo shirt and almost on my $120 boat shoes, yes I'm the modern day ric flair :lol

Hitman talk Huh ?

bret/diesel svs is glorious and a top 3 Bret match IMO, 

1) bret/scsa wm 10
2) bret/kidd raw 94
3) bret/diesel svs 95

It wasnt even MOTY of 95 either which is crazy 

Is bret/owen white plains the action zone one ?


edit: I think that was me, yea I think I prefer it, havent seen the wm 10 match in AGES


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> 1) bret/scsa wm 10


unk2 I think you mean WM 13. Unless you mean vs Owen at WM 10.

I actually need to watch the Owen match from Mania. Apparently it's good.

:lmao modern day Ric Flair


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ yep, mania 13, I need to watch it again as well havent in about a year

IDC what anyone think I think bret/hbk svs 97 is pretty good, and could have been :mark: if finished


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just ordered the first ladder set and the Eddie set on Amazon for FREE because I found a gift card lying around. 

Thoughts on those sets?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Just got back from the party, kinda mad some girl spilled beer on my *$50 polo shirt* and almost on my *$120 boat shoes,* yes I'm the modern day ric flair :lol


GTFO. Must be some Ralph Lauren shit and some calfskin leather boaties. 



smitty915 said:


> Just ordered the first ladder set and the Eddie set on Amazon for FREE because I found a gift card lying around.
> 
> Thoughts on those sets?


GREAT and GREAT. 

-----------------------------

You know, it's a real shame they fucked up Night of Champions so much, because that completely drained any interest I might've had for Battleground before the card even came out. At this point I don't really care about Orton/Bryan because you know they'll be facing off inside Hell in a Cell later this month (so THAT'S the match to see). I have faith in Del Rio/RVD & Shield/Rhodes (even though I think people are blowing this match wayyyyyy out of proportion) & Punk/Ryback could be solid but the rest of the "card" (which means the rest of the thrown together shitbag) can go away. Kofi & Truth get PPV matches while you stick Ziggler & Sandow, your two most recent Money in the Bank briefacse holders for the World Title, in the preshow. Yeah, makes sense.

BUT, with all that said, I might still turn on the stream tomorrow night if I'm not doing anything else.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ralph lauren and sperry top sliders  and they were about 100 but still  stylin and profin is NOT a gimmick :lol

Cant believe there is a ppv tomorrow, wasnt NOC like last week ? Geez Vince


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Oh, the Braves totally have priority over Battleground, which is essentially a throw away show, except for Shield/Rhodes. The stream will be on, but on mute.

Shield/Rhodes should have been at Survivor Series, because it's a pretty big match. I still can't understand the logic behind having two PPVs in one month, besides money.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I also have little interest in Battleground other than the main event. Will stream the thing but likely do something else when the show is on until Bryan and Orton come out. Might give GTA Online a try for the first time.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Older Bret Hart set review​*
*Disc 3​*
*Match # 1: Bret Hart vs Owen Hart( White Plain NY, 4/29/94)*

Interesting that they would put this match on this set over the one at SS. Maybe this is a good hidden Gem? This was a really good match, its different yet similar to the mania match in reasons I cannot explain. Did these two ever have a bad match? Such awesome chemistry. This might be a hard match to find so you might want to buy the DVD cheap on amazon. Not as good as the WM X match, but VERY close. **** ½*

*Match # 2: Bret Hart vs Hakushi( IYH 5/14/95)*

Hakushi is escaping me at the time, I doubt I have ever seen anything from him. First thing I notice: This guy has a SHIT ton of tats, but they might be fake. Whoever this guy is he is CRAZY athletic. Especially for 1995. I was expecting a Yokozuna type guy here but he was awesome, not that yoko isn’t though. Hakushi reminds me of the cruiserweight division that would eventually become an awesome division on SD in the early part of the 21st century. This is a beautiful gem of a match and this DVD just keeps getting better. **** ¼*

*Match #3: Diesel vs Bret Hart( SVS 1995)*

I’ll admit, I’m not as high as some on the RR 1995 match. I gave it *** last watch so I hope this is a little better. This was a lot better and is one of the best matches on this set. This was a good brawl and the crowd popped big for Diesel’s loss of his title after nearly a year with it. **** ½*

*Match # 4: Bret Hart vs the British Bulldog( IYH 12/17/95)*

I liked the SS 1992 match and I think I rated it a little too low. Hope this is just as good or better. This was very different than their SS 1992 match that I felt was good but not great. This was less mat wrestling and a lot more of a fight, which in my mind made it much more fun to sit through. Cornette is awesome as usual and he is one of my favorite all time managers. This might have been one of the bloodiest bouts of the new generation era as their was very little blood back then. Really solid match. Better than the SS 1992 match IMO. ****
'
*Match # 5: Stone Cold vs Bret Hart( WM 13)*

One of the best matches of all time IMO. Stone Cold and Bret’s greatest match of all time. So great. Its weird hearing the mixed reaction for someone who would become one of the most over guys in WWF history. This is just a flat out FIGHT that never stops being good, it’s a shame this wasn’t the ME of the night but I guess the title match had to ME . Anyways the ending and double turn are executed beautifully, top 10 match of all time. *****

*Match # 6: Bret Hart vs the Undertaker( One Night only 1997)*

This match sounds incredibly solid in paper, and I can’t wait to see how good it is. I really liked this match, I haven’t seen any of their matches but I’ve heard that this is the best one. It wasn’t really up to the standard that Hart/Austin was but it is still very good. A little slow but it gets the job done. ****

*Match # 7: Chris Benoit vs Bret Hart( Nitro 10/4/99)*

This was the Owen Hart tribute match and I think its cool that he picked Benoit for this. Obviously this is an awesome match because its BENOIT AND HART. You cant get that much better than that! I wont go too much into detail because I’m lazy and tired but its an excellent match and a fitting end to the set. ****


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ralph lauren and sperry top sliders  and they were about 100 but still  stylin and profin is NOT a gimmick


Go to Karmaloop.com or your local Zumiez and grab yourself some Crooks & Castles, Neff, Diamond, Obey, LRG, or 10 Deep stuff, and a fresh pair of Dunks, or just go with the always classy camo shorts, white v neck, and a throwback SnapBack, THEN you can consider yourself stylin and profilin'. 

J/k, I've been a skater/snowboarder most my life, I don't really know of any other way to dress.

I watched Cena/Lesnar for the first time since it aired tonight, I think I'm finally willing to admit that it's a ***** match. Calling it a match really doesn't do it justice, it was just a straight FIGHT with a worked finish. I paused/rewinded and went through it in slow motion, if either guys actually blades, it's the best blade job in wrestling history. No, I truly think that Lesnar opened Cena up hard way with those elbows, and Cena gave Lesnar his receipt with that hard way shot with the chain. This has gotta be the best baby face performance I've ever seen from Cena, and Brock just came off like a complete monster. I completely forgot he smeared Cena's blood across his chest then licked his fingers. Ugh, so gross yet so bad ass at the same time. I have all the respect in the world for Cena after watching that, he essentially just let Brock physically beat and brutalize him for 15 straight minutes, without any let up. 

I would have preferred Brock to win, not because I'm a Cena hater, I don't hate Cena at all, just because I think it would have mad this already shocking match that much more of a shock. Plus it wouldn't have hurt Cena to lose there, the storyline was Cena wasn't himself after losing to the Rock at WM28 so having him get brutalized and beat by Lesnar then losing the match would have just hammered that point home even more. Plus that would leave the option open for a return match at a later date, maybe at Hell in a Cell, for Cena to get beat even more before finally pulling out the win in the end.

But griping about the finish for this really just feels like picking nits, this was simply a great piece of story telling and it's shocking to me WWE allowed this match to happen the way it did at all. Losing didn't really hurt Brock at all, he came out looking like an absolute animal.

So yea, ***** from me. Not sure if it supplants Punk-Bryan OTL12 as my MotY, but seeing as I gave that match ****1/2 and Cena-Lesnar *****, I guess it would have to. Those were two entirely different matches, and the fabulous Shield TLC was completely different from them, so it's really hard to say which is better. I'll cop out and say its a 3-way tie


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I'm drunk as fuck, but here I am, gonna review one of the greatest matches of the century. No hyperbole here.

MANKIND VS. THE UNDERTAKER (HELL IN A CELL)

It starts with Foley on top of the cell. There is basically no recent history between these two men but Undertaker climbs up to meet Mankind anyway. Mankind connects with a chairshot to the back, and Undertaker is in trouble. Mankind picks Undetaker up by the hair and attempts to gain the upper hand.

All of a sudden...Undertaker fights back with some right hands, and in a scene that will NEVER EVER be repeated..Undertaker throws Mankind off the fucking cell. Through the Spanish announce table. Jim Ross is LOSING HIS SHIT. 'GET SOMEONE OUT HERE...I MEAN IT' God bless JR.

We spend the next few minutes looking at the replays. Mankind totally *obiterated* the table. The Undertaker is still on top of the fucking cage! The cage is being raised! Mainly to get Mankind out on a stretcher. Vince McMahon is out, and so is Commissioner Slaughter. 

They're leading Mankind to the back, the match is supposedly over, until Mankind GETS ON HIS FEET. He is wanting to continue! FUCKING INSANE. HE CLIMBS THE FUCKING CAGE and so does The Undertaker. Words cannot describe this fucking moment. Mankind somehow manages to climb to the top, and he meets with the returning Undertaker. 

Undertaker gives him a right hand, then ses him up for a chokeslam. Undertaker then chokeslams Mankind THROUGH THE FUCKING CAGE. Mankind lands on a steel chair, and ALMOST DIES. There is NO exaggeration there folks. Afterwards, a host of officials run in to check that Foley is not dead. Thankfully he is still alive. Terry Funk is in the ring(!) to try and get Mankind up off his feet, but The Undertaker decides to chokeslam him to hell, just because he can. Funk is writhing in pain, and Undertaker throws him out.

In one of the most darkest moments of professional wrestling, The undertaker then lands a right hand on Foley. To this day, Foley has no recollection of this. He is basically a walking doll. A lifeless being. Just WATCH Foley fall down when undertaker lands that right hand. He can't remember it whatsoever. There's shoes! Jerry Lawler calls Mankind 'indestructible'. This lead to the INSANE shot of Foley with his teeth inside his nostrils. When I saw this first time in 1998 I was jusr taken back.

Undertaker then destroys Mankind some more with the steel steps. Right to the shoulders, then with some uppercuts. Afterwards, he misses with a missile dive, and he hits his head with the steel. Undertaker is bleeding. Mankind then brings Undertaker in the ring and piledrives him on a chair! Ouch! Mankind hammers away, then he proceeds to legdrop him on the chair. 

Mankind is laughing! Laughing!

All of sudden, Mankind climbs under the ring to gather something. It'a a bag. He sprinkles some of the contents over the ring. THUMBTACKS. FUCKING THUMBTACKS. Mankind is SICL. Bear in mind this is 1998. Thumbtacks were unheard of in this era. FUCKING THUMBTACKS. 'This is..off the page' Jim ross.

Undertaker delivers some right hands, but Mankind gets the mandible claw on Taker! Mankind has defeated Taker with this move! But, all of a sudden, Taker lifts up Mankind and drops him back first on the thumbtacks. OUUUUUUUCHHH! Mankind makes sure to roll on the thumbtacks for good measure. 

After this, Undertaker then chokeslams poor old Foley on the thumbtacks. FUCKING. OUCH.

THEN...Undertaker proceeds to tombstone Mankind. ONE...TWO..THREE...OVER.

I reiterate...if you have not seen this match. WATCH IT. NOW.

NOW.

I am not afraid to give this match a ***** rating. It deserves it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Epic review man, if I had to guess, I'd say Mankind vs Taker HiaC is the match I've seen more times than any other. It just never ceases to amaze me, and it ALWAYS gives me that awesome goosebumps, edge of your seat, feeling that only the very best matches can do. What a story told, what a roller coaster ride. Foley is God.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching the HHH doc on dailymotion right now, entertaining so far. Might not go to sleep tonight because their is a fucking flying cockroach under my bed and I'm camping out in the living room :lol. 

Hey, dont judge, Im terrified of roaches


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The roach is probably more afraid of you tbh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe the HHH documentary will teach you a thing or two about sqaushing things.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ehh I'll just kill it tommorow :lol.

I'm only like halfway into this doc and their already talking about HHH and Stephanie? ughh


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Haven't watched any wrestling in a while. Downloading the HHH DVD. It could be the cure.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Hohenheim of Light said:


> The roach is probably more afraid of you tbh.


Who gives a shitty shit, they're still horrific. And holy fuck, a flying one? I wouldn't trust that it wouldn't crawl on me while I was sleeping. And I can sure as shit tell you I would 100% not go near a sleeping one of those motherfuckers. I'd rather there be a bear under my bed.


I put 2010 Royal Rumble on a re-writeable DVD, should watch it the day after tomorrow. Got the chamber too, with Mania and ExRules in utorrent now.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

I just got finished watching every Phillip Brooks match ever. And it's unbelievable. I don't think he has ever had a match below *****. He is such a dreamy guy. I love his GTS. He's such a strong man being able to pick up guys and thrust them over his shoulder like that. Give him the title already WWE!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Phillip Brooks? Vanilla no-drawing midget!!!!

ALL HAIL KEVIN NASH! :troll


----------



## tigermaskfan23 (May 30, 2013)

*What should WWE do a box set about next?*

WWE just recently got done releasing the new box set about Triple H title Thy Kingdom Come chronicle The Game's life and Pro Wrestling Career along with some of his best matches. But what or whom should there next box set be about? If you ask me they should do a big box set of The Best matches of NWA I mean that to me would be awesome to see some great matches of the 80s and 90s of NWA. Would be a good investment on there part since you can't really buy those matches unless you know someone with some really old tapes from the originally airings. Just my thought on what I would love to see come out of WWE Home Video. So your suggestion on WWE's next box set and why? And any thoughts on my suggestion?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

KingLobos said:


> I just got finished watching every Phillip Brooks match ever. And it's unbelievable. I don't think he has ever had a match below *****. He is such a dreamy guy. I love his GTS. He's such a strong man being able to pick up guys and thrust them over his shoulder like that. Give him the title already WWE!!!


Most honest post in this thread. unk7


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KingLobos said:


> I just got finished watching every Phillip Brooks match ever. And it's unbelievable. I don't think he has ever had a match below *****. He is such a dreamy guy. I love his GTS. He's such a strong man being able to pick up guys and thrust them over his shoulder like that. Give him the title already WWE!!!


Glad you finally saw the light. Of course, he has nothing on our boy Dewey. That man makes Rey Mysterio look like Zeus.

When did Harry Smith become so good? I'm watching his stuff in NJPW, and it's great.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> Who gives a shitty shit, they're still horrific. And holy fuck, a flying one? I wouldn't trust that it wouldn't crawl on me while I was sleeping. And I can sure as shit tell you I would 100% not go near a sleeping one of those motherfuckers. I'd rather there be a bear under my bed.


What exactly do you think it's gonna do to you?


----------



## Steve-a-maniac (Sep 2, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

I'd like to see a proper 3 or 4 disc set on the Monday Night Wars instead of the single disc that they released back in '04.


----------



## Wealdstone Raider (Jan 3, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

The Sin Cara botch set


----------



## CurryKingDH (Apr 14, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

They could do a good one about Daniel Bryan at this point. It would probably be a lot like CM Punk's DVD.

It would show his rise through the independents, NXT, being fired, coming back as a face, US title run, World title run, Wrestlemania's 18 second match and soar in popularity, team with Kane and his singles rise against Cena culminating at becoming a top guy at Summerslam.

Matches could include a couple independent ones, him vs Cena on velocity in 2002, Bryan/Jericho from NXT, US title match against Miz, WWE title match against Punk, a couple tag matches with Kane and Bryan/Cena from summerslam.

3 Disc Set, WWE presents, Daniel Bryan: YES!


----------



## lil_dro (Jun 3, 2009)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

The Shield :HHH2


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Triple H Vs Jeff Hardy (No Mercy 2008) ~ ***** 1/4*
Triple H Vs Jeff Hardy (Cyber Sunday 2008) ~ ******

Much love to both of these. Cyber Sunday is shorter by like 10 minutes but manages to almost be as good, these guys just have that chemistry that very few workers seem to have together, it's weird. Both finishes are great (the pedigree at Cyber Sunday was fucking BOSS) but I'd give an edge to No Mercy being the slightly better match and the CLASSIC encounter between the two that'll ultimately be remembered. Jeff was awesome as the guy who kept on getting closer and closer to the title, HHH in the role of the intelligent veteran who can win the match at any time with his expertise is a great role for him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Their Armageddon 07 match is overlooked beyond recognition.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

No Mercy 2004:
Eddie vs Luther: ** Go watch Eddie's antics which made this match better than it was
Spike vs Nunzio: 1/2*
Kidman vs London: **
Kenzo/Rene vs RVD/Rey Rey: **1/2
Show vs Angle: *1/2
Booker T vs Cena: **1/2
Dudleys vs Rico/Hass: *
JBL vs Taker: **3/4

Overall: 4/10. Not as bad as I thought it was 9 years ago but still a crappy show. First PPV in Jersey in over 3 years and this is what they put out? The ending to the main event pissed me off. Yet it wouldn't surprise me if this show ended up being on the same level as Battleground, if not better, 'cause that show looks like utter crap.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Personally I'd add at least a star to JBL/Taker. I love all of their matches :mark:.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

@Corporate KingOfKings

What did you think of Triple H vs Jeff Hardy on Smackdown 11/21/08? It's not as good as their No Mercy 2008 and Cyber Sunday 2008 matches but it's one their strong encounters. A very competitive match between the two. Rated it at ★★★3/4. IIRC, they also had a good match on Smackdown 12/12/08 until Edge had to ruin it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hardy/Trips at Armageddon 2007 is solid, though NM is their best encounter.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched Orton vs Taker Hell in a Cell at Armageddon 2005.

Great match, but they definitely should have cut off 5-10 minutes in the end. It was so so promising but just seemed to drag a bit towards the end. Orton was awesome, and Taker is Taker. His control segments in every hell in a cell match are top notch, always. Kinda weird to see Bob Orton bleeding, doesn't he have Hepatits C? That could have been dangerous, as Taker and Randy were bleeding and even he ref was bleeding.

Still, very very solid encounter. ***3/4 from me. Taker essentially squashing Randy for the first 10 minutes or so was kick ass.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone know if XWT free leech week is over? I did not take full advantage of it at all. All I managed to grab was Thy Kingdom Come, a Punk shoot interview from RF Video (been dying to get my hands on it for years) and AAW Day of Defiance 2013 (Also been dying to see Callihan/Holister LMS)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Lord Flvcko said:


> @Corporate KingOfKings
> 
> What did you think of Triple H vs Jeff Hardy on Smackdown 11/21/08? It's not as good as their No Mercy 2008 and Cyber Sunday 2008 matches but it's one their strong encounters. A very competitive match between the two. Rated it at ★★★3/4. IIRC, they also had a good match on Smackdown 12/12/08 until Edge had to ruin it.


I remember this being good. Looking forward to watching it again on the HHH DVD. Starting the doc now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

sharkboy22 said:


> Does anyone know if XWT free leech week is over? I did not take full advantage of it at all. All I managed to grab was Thy Kingdom Come, a Punk shoot interview from RF Video (been dying to get my hands on it for years) and AAW Day of Defiance 2013 (Also been dying to see Callihan/Holister LMS)


Ends 2morrow (7th).


----------



## BarbedWire_IsSexy (Sep 5, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

I'm still waiting on my 3 Count Anthology unk3


----------



## charlemm1 (Apr 7, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

I may be the only one who feels this way, but I would like if they came out with a Dustin Rhodes/Goldust box set, explaining his rise from Dustin Rhodes in WCW to his early Goldust character, to his tag team with Booker T, and later years.

I'm still waiting on them to come out with a life story of Macho Man.
A Sting box set would be cool too.


----------



## HouseofPunk (Mar 15, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

The WWE Buried Alive Box Set featuring guest commentary from :trips2



:saul


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Never really used XWT outside of getting a Bryan Danielson ROH Title pack, but what are some other good match packs to have? I saw a Barry Windham one that looks pretty cool as well as a Midnight Express one. Anything else (hopefully a Regal or Santana somewhere there?)


----------



## Billion Dollar Man (Feb 8, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

Bout damn time they did one for Kane TBH.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*

Starrcade box set!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*



Billion Dollar Man said:


> Bout damn time they did one for Kane TBH.


Hey, you don't belong here. Get out! :henry1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*



Billion Dollar Man said:


> Bout damn time they did one for Kane TBH.


They have a Kane one, called "The Twisted Disturbed Life of Kane". Only features matches, no documentary, so yea it would be nice to have a Kane doc. I'd definitely buy it. The twisted set I have is pretty good though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

@machomadness: pretty sure they have a Starrcade set

Would like to see a two volume NWO anthology. Volume one being 2000- 2004 and volume two 2005-2009. NWO 2012 as Blu ray exclusive?

KOTR anthology would be sick too


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Re: What should WWE do a box set about next?*



Cactus Jack said:


> Just watched Orton vs Taker Hell in a Cell at Armageddon 2005.
> 
> Great match, but they definitely should have cut off 5-10 minutes in the end. It was so so promising but just seemed to drag a bit towards the end. Orton was awesome, and Taker is Taker. His control segments in every hell in a cell match are top notch, always. Kinda weird to see Bob Orton bleeding, doesn't he have Hepatits C? That could have been dangerous, as Taker and Randy were bleeding and even he ref was bleeding.
> 
> Still, very very solid encounter. ***3/4 from me. Taker essentially squashing Randy for the first 10 minutes or so was kick ass.


Great match. They didn't know about the Hep C at the time so that's why he bladed. They found out later on and Taker got angry at Laurinaitis for not informing him and Randy of it. From that point on, they took Bob off screen and he no longer accompanied Randy in his matches.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Hey, you don't belong here. Get out! :henry1


Hey, he's better than your gimmick posting ass atm. C'mon, you're better than that!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

An hour into the HHH doc. Good stuff. Really digging the stuff with Hunter coming up with ideas for his character. That aspect of the business is something he seems to have a real knack for.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Orton HIAC is :mark:. MOTY for 05 imo, which is high praise for a year with some absolute classic high end MOTYC matches.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I haven't watched nearly enough of 2005 to have a MOTY. I've only seen Summerslam and WM so I guess my MOTY is HBK/angle. Dont really have a rating for it. honorable mention to the rey/eddie ladder match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

My 2005 MOTY is Batista vs Triple H from Vengeance. Rewatched it and Benoit/HHH from 2004 yesterday. The latter went down slightly but my 05 MOTY remains in the same spot. Just a brutal classic! That Pedigree nearfall will always be one of my favorites.

The 2005 top matches is pretty stacked to say the least. Two HIAC matches, MITB, Elimination Chamber, HBK/Angle, Cena/JBL I Quit, HBK/Shelton, Eddie/Rey 23/6 and so on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A top 20 could be put together for JUST WWE in 2005 (TNA had some killer matches too that year) and ALL of them could be **** and above and there wouldn't be much room to argue tbh lol. Undertaker/Orton series (WM, SS, NM and HIAC are all above **** for me, their SD match comes close), both Angle/HBK PPV matches, HHH/Batista HIAC (their BL match would have been there if Batista didn't fuck up the entire thing by no selling 90% of the match at the end just to look STRONG~!), Eddie/Rey series (JD, SD and GAB, arguments could be made for their cage I guess), JBL/Cena I Quit, HBK/Shelton (love that this holds up super well after all these years and IS so much more than just a cool finish), MITB Ladder Match, RR Match, Hardy/Edge Cage, and probably a bunch of TV stuff I'm missing/forgetting about along with bits here and there that are so close to **** that I could easily see someone else rating them that high.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MOTY 05 is between HHH/Batista HIAC and nyr chamber 05, than eddie/rey sd 05

I really dont like HBK/Shelton gold rush, but I'm not into that whole amateur wrestling thing


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Match quality in 2005 was untouchable. So much CONSISTENCY all over the place. I did a top 50 when I went through the year but last I looked back at it, I would've changed so much around. I did some serious disservice to Eddie when only JD and 23/6 Rey matches made the list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit, how did I forget the Chamber match? I swear any time top matches of 2005 comes up I forget about it :lmao. I JUST GOT THE DVD OF THE EVENT ON THURSDAY. I ACTUALLY HAD IT IN MY PC EARLIER TO CHECK THE DISC WORKED. I WATCHED THE FINISH OF THE MATCH JUST HOURS AGO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fucking hate when my post is the last on a page

Cant forget the hhh/naitch series


----------



## AlwaysSunny For AIW (Jun 12, 2005)

Ric Flair vs. Triple H Taboo Tuesday '05 Cage > Triple H vs. Batista HIAC.

And I thought that Hell in a Cell match was great. HHH/Flair is my 2005 MOTY. (Y)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck me I forgot HHH/Flair cage too? *looks over at empty beer bottle* I gotta stop drinking and posting...

I think with the list I posted earlier + the EC and Flair/HHH cage I forgot about, that was what, 17 matches in total? All matches I would consider **** and above. And yeah, probably some other TV matches I'm forgetting about/haven't seen as I DID stop watching the product for a while following WM and never got the chance to catch up fully on the TV stuff. And throw in TNA and probably some ROH in there too (buggered if I can remember what I've seen from 05 there, but I'm guessing there will be something I love lol), and damn, you're probably looking at 30 matches or so in the ****+ range.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Dammit, even I forgot about Flair vs HHH. That and Edge/Hardy too. 2005 might be the year of the caged matches. Elimination Chamber, 2 Hell in a Cells and 2 steel cage matches - all I would rate in the ★★★★½ area.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Another match I just thought of; the Survivor Series Raw Vs SD tag. Not quite **** for me but I can see people going that high with it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I won't return until Callamus admits to the glory of the great one!


You might be here awhile. I enjoyed Rocky in his prime as well. 



Walter Sobchak said:


> I also would go a full star higher on the Mr. Perfect KOTR match.


Bret/Perfect KotR 1993 is the shit. As good as their Summerslam match. Perfect was healthy so they could do more. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> I legitimately have every match on that Bret Hart set at or above four stars.


One of the best sets the E has put out....no doubt



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Oh, the Braves totally have priority over Battleground


Good for you! Huge baseball fan (Rangers) here as well. My best friend since childhood is a Braves fan. Skipping Raw to watch with him tomorrow. Hope the Braves win it all. 



Dopesick said:


> I'm drunk as fuck, but here I am, gonna review one of the greatest matches of the century. No hyperbole here.
> 
> MANKIND VS. THE UNDERTAKER (HELL IN A CELL)
> 
> ...


Hahahaha awesome review. I love watching rasslin drunk. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Maybe the HHH documentary will teach you a thing or two about sqaushing things.



Well played. 




smitty915 said:


> @machomadness: pretty sure they have a Starrcade set
> 
> 
> KOTR anthology would be sick too


No like a box set of ALL the Starrcades. I'd buy the KotR anthology for sure. 



AlwaysSunny For AIW said:


> Ric Flair vs. Triple H Taboo Tuesday '05 Cage > Triple H vs. Batista HIAC.


Agreed. Like both but that Trips/Flair match is the tits.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

MITB is an obvious one, the best MITB - **** 1/2
I've seen people rate Benoit/Edge LMS around the **** range but I haven't seen it since forever
How was Cena/Christian/Jericho from vengeance and Cena/Jericho from Summerslam? Can see them being decent if not good.
Benjamin/Jericho from Backlash is *** 3/4 IMO, could see an argument for it being a very low ****
JBL/Show @ NWO? I loved it as a kid but haven't seen it since it aired. Will need a rewatch but I have VERY fond memories of it.

TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING FIVE


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2005 talk?

Gotta mention HHH/Flair SVS. Pure character-work brilliance. Imo SVS > TT.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tanaka/Awesome


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena/Christian/Jericho - ★★★½
Cena/Jericho (SummerSlam) - ★★★★


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

2005 ruled on so many levels, probably the best year in ring wise the WWE has ever had.

My MotY is Eddie vs Rey on Smackdown 6/23. A perfect, ***** masterpiece from two of the all time greats given away for FREE on television?? Yea, 2005 kicked ass.

1. Rey vs Eddie Smackdown 6/23
2. Batista vs Trips HiaC
3. HBK vs Angle WM21
4. Elimination Chamber 2005 (The GOAT chamber match)
5. Flair vs Triple H Steel Cage
6. Eddie vs Rey Judgement Day
7. Cena vs Jericho SS OR Loser Leaves Town, both were brilliant
8. MitB WM 21
9. Orton vs Undertaker WM
10. Orton vs Undertaker HiaC

Edit- how did I just make a top 10 list for 2005 with no Benoit? wtf? I loved his LMS with Edge but for the life of me I can't remember shit about it now. Also, the Matt Hardy vs Edge Loser Leaves Raw ladder match and Streetfight deserve some love. Also HBK had another sublime match with Angle at Vengeance that deserves to be mentioned. Fuck 2005 was tits.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit was actually in the MITB match and he was pretty much the star there along with Shelton, so I say that means he's part of the top 10. Other than that, his two matches with Triple H from March and May were amazing too. But following the draft, he was stuck working with Orlando Jordan and then Booker T for several months so he didn't get to have any GREAT matches.

It's perfect time to plug this underrated gem again, though:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p8wi_chris-benoit-vs-christian-pt-1_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p92q_chris-benoit-vs-christian-pt-2_sport


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Billion Dollar Man said:


> Bout damn time they did one for Kane TBH.





Choke2Death said:


> Benoit was actually in the MITB match and he was pretty much the star there along with Shelton, so I say that means he's part of the top 10. Other than that, his two matches with Triple H from March and May were amazing too. But following the draft, he was stuck working with Orlando Jordan and then Booker T for several months so he didn't get to have any GREAT matches.
> 
> It's perfect time to plug this underrated gem again, though:
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p8wi_chris-benoit-vs-christian-pt-1_sport
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8p92q_chris-benoit-vs-christian-pt-2_sport



Ugh. I'm an idiot, he's in the Elimination Chamber match I listed too, and I just watched that TODAY! Gosh.

I'm thinking I need to give Taker vs Orton HiaC another watch. I put it on at 12:40pm today looking to kill time before my Giants game started at 1. So every minute it went over 20 I was just pleading for them to get to the finish so I could go to the bar and watch the game. For those first 20 or so minutes it was absolutely terrific.

I absolutely love their match at WM, that's the most underrated GREAT streak match out there. Nobody talks about it, but it was truly exceptional.

P.s., love the new sig. Franklins a boss. I just stole a fighter jet with him and parked it in my hangar. You gotten to the military base yet?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

never seen orton/taker HIAC

debating if i should even watch the pre-show


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Ugh. I'm an idiot, he's in the Elimination Chamber match I listed too, and I just watched that TODAY! Gosh.
> 
> I'm thinking I need to give Taker vs Orton HiaC another watch. I put it on at 12:40pm today looking to kill time before my Giants game started at 1. So every minute it went over 20 I was just pleading for them to get to the finish so I could go to the bar and watch the game. For those first 20 or so minutes it was absolutely terrific.


Yeah, definitely give it another watch. It's worth it. Also watch the Christian vs Benoit match I posted. Now that's truly an underrated match.



> I absolutely love their match at WM, that's the most underrated GREAT streak match out there. Nobody talks about it, but it was truly exceptional.


It's great but it might also be my least favorite from their 2005 matches. Their chemistry that year was unreal. Kind of sucks we never really got to see them in a proper singles match since then. Everything they had were two minute stuff that ended by interference or tag matches.



> P.s., love the new sig. Franklins a boss. I just stole a fighter jet with him and parked it in my hangar. You gotten to the military base yet?


Franklin is great but Trevor is truly boss imo. Love his reckless, blood thirsty "don't give a fuck" attitude. Haven't played as much since beating the story so that's another thing I might have to do while getting 100% and trying online.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I legitimately don't know one match on the card of this 'Battlestation' show (nor do I apparently know what the fuck it's even called). I can assume Bryan v. Orton will on there, but I still don't give a shit about Orton at all. Hell if it was Bryan v. Henry I wouldn't even watch (yes you would, exaggerating dickhead, shut up). If I'm not going out today I'll start watching 2010 PPV instead.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah, definitely give it another watch. It's worth it. Also watch the Christian vs Benoit match I posted. Now that's truly an underrated match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love that Franklins garage is right down the street from an exact replica of Grove Street from San Andreas, brings back memories. You noticed that, right? Trevor is awesome too, I love switching to him while he's in the middle of doing something random. And the way he will just snap and kill someone is hilarious.

What other great matches did Orton have with Taker besides the Casket match, Hell in a Cell, and Mania in 2005? I loved all of those, and all warrant around **** or more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I legitimately don't know one match on the card of this 'Battlestation' show (nor do I apparently know what the fuck it's even called). I can assume Bryan v. Orton will on there, but I still don't give a shit about Orton at all. Hell if it was Bryan v. Henry I wouldn't even watch (yes you would, exaggerating dickhead, shut up). If I'm not going out today I'll start watching 2010 PPV instead.


SHIELD VS GOLDUST. And Cody.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam might be my favorite Taker/Orton match. Among the best flowing matches I have ever seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> What other great matches did Orton have with Taker besides the Casket match, Hell in a Cell, and Mania in 2005? I loved all of those, and all warrant around **** or more.


SummerSlam and a SD match .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 posted which reminded me of this: lol @ roach-phobia. Last time they terrified me was 12 or so years ago and even then I had no remorse when squashing the shit out of them with a shoe nearby. Fear of any insect is something I don't understand if you're above 10. 



Cactus Jack said:


> I love that Franklins garage is right down the street from an exact replica of Grove Street from San Andreas, brings back memories. You noticed that, right? Trevor is awesome too, I love switching to him while he's in the middle of doing something random. And the way he will just snap and kill someone is hilarious.
> 
> What other great matches did Orton have with Taker besides the Casket match, Hell in a Cell, and Mania in 2005? I loved all of those, and all warrant around **** or more.


How could I not? Grove Street is like a home away from the real world to me! It is heartbreaking that those purple sack of shits have taken over after I thought I officially kicked them out of the city 21 years ago.  Switching to Trevor is always hilarious. He'll be in the middle of a cop chase or on his ass with only his underwear, completely drunk. Sometimes with a few victims nearby.

Orton had a great match with Undertaker on Smackdown from 16 September 2005. And of course, SummerSlam that year too. They've been part of some good tag matches while not directly feuding. Two of them were on February 2007 and another is from the Smackdown tenth anniversary before HIAC 2009.

EDIT: To make it easier in case you search for them.

Rated RKO, MVP & Mr. Kennedy vs Undertaker, John Cena, HBK & Batista - Raw, 12/2/07
Rated RKO vs Batista & Undertaker - Smackdown, 16/2/07
Legacy & CM Punk vs Undertaker, Cena & DX - Smackdown 2/9/09


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> SHIELD VS GOLDUST. And Cody.


Oooooooooo GOLDUST! I'll definitely try to watch that before I die.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Summerslam might be my favorite Taker/Orton match. Among the best flowing matches I have ever seen.


It is weird not seeing Mark Henry in funnyfaces sig. :sad:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just realized that Santino and Khali are teaming in a fucking tag match tonight 

Even Cesaro and swagger cant save this.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Santino and Khali as a tag team? 

The Parmesan Playboys


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at Tensai being one of the panelists for Battleground. Why is Titus O'Neil also a panelist and not wrestling?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Is anyone buying this? I buy more than most but I'm just streaming tonight.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Summerslam might be my favorite Taker/Orton match. Among the best flowing matches I have ever seen.


 The greatest Summerslam match is Rock vs Brock Lesnar only because of the Rock. Am I right? :rock


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> The greatest Summerslam match is Rock vs Brock Lesnar only because of the Rock. Am I right? :rock


You clearly forgot about the GOAT Summerslam match from 1999 :rock

This WHC match is actually really good. Chalk another one up for Del Rio and his great year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ seriously ? I think its so dull or is it just me ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Viva Del Rioooooooo!!!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

RVD/ADR was an awesome opener. At least *** 3/4

Oh no here comes Khali


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm a sucker for RVD hardcore matches and all the spots were fun and hard-hitting. Could be just me, but I thought it was a great way to open what is going to be a sub-par show.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Eh, wasn't a fan of the Del Rio/RVD match. Cool spots I suppose but that's about it.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Opener was barely **1/2 imo. Everything RVD was slow, plodding and how he laid out the spots were that of a 40 year old man who couldn't care less.

Edit

Forgot to put in ADR's performance was great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Solid opener although I only caught it from when they started using weapons. Now with The Great Shit "wrestling", I can take a break. I guess that can be said about more than half the show since The Shield/Runnel and Orton/Bryan are the only matches I care about.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That's it. Antonio Cesaro is the greatest wrestler of all-time.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> Is anyone buying this? I buy more than most but I'm just streaming tonight.


Yes, I'm a sucker, but it's mainly because I have no patience for streams.

This RVD/ADR match was ten times better than their last PPV one. There were times when RVD looked completely aimless, so I wouldn't call it a great match, but it was enjoyable enough.

The Real Americans' music is so badass.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, at least Cesaro got to impress on PPV.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Wow, Layla's British? That's weird. Never would have guessed. Had her pegged as being from California or something like that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

was the khali match solid? It was a piss break :lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

smitty915 said:


> was the khali match solid? It was a piss break :lol.


Cesaro swung Khali around.

That instantly makes it the best Khali match ever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

now that was decent, Cesaro :mark: just something else. Yea really not a fan of that WHC match, so slow and contrived

NOW its MR. Perfect ............................................ Son  love the theme though

khail actually has a couple decent matches


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm guessing Real Americans won?

onto matadores feud


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel like I'm watching a classic NWA tag match from the 80s. This could seriously be one of the best tag team matches in years.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Wikipedia is so funny. Look what someone wrote hahahaha. That is not how you spell Pegasus. Morons!

CM Punk vs Ryback (with Paul Heyman)Match ends in no contest due to Curtis Axel interference. Chris Benoit returns and saves CM Punk.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Can someone PM me a decent stream link? The one I have now sucks


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

When was the last time we had a tag match as good as that one? 2003?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God damn what a match!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

★★★★1/2 for the Rhodes/Shield. Don't care if I'm overrating it. The match fucking OWNED.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> When was the last time we had a tag match as good as that one? 2003?


2007 probably.

Excellent match and I don't see anything other than maybe the WWE Championship match top it. DAT CROSS RHODES! :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Best thing I can think of is Batista/Undertaker vs. Cena/HBK from NWO 07. Prior to that, maybe something from 2004 on RAW.

*****1/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This is soo cheesy

Good match


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Did Codydust win?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Best thing I can think of is Batista/Undertaker vs. Cena/HBK from NWO 07. Prior to that, maybe something from 2004 on RAW.
> 
> *****1/4*


Rated RKO vs DX from New Year's Revolution too. Before that, yeah, I'd probably go as far back as 2004 to look for some Evolution tags.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. This "expert" panel is terrible. Titus O'Neil thinks RVD is the new WWE World Heavyweight Champion. :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'm not that high on the tag match, but it is the clear MOTN thus far. ***3/4. Great match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

My stream was being a bitch so I only caught the second half of that match, but it was pretty great. Cross Rhodes made me :mark: hard.

Also, few folks trying to sing Fandango's theme during Kofi/Wyatt. unk2


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> I'm not that high on the tag match, but it is the clear MOTN thus far.


Yeah, it was fine, but I'm not seeing what was so great about it. May need to watch again, as I was distracted during the first few minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea ****1/2 amnd ***1/4 are abit TOO high, but good match, very hot crowd helped, Cody was outstanding


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

This Punk/Ryback match is so boring.

That's what people get for wanting to get Punk away from Axel. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ugh. That was terrible. 50 minutes left in the show and it's main event time... idk if I wanna watch this or not.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bah, nowhere near as good as I wanted it to be. What a ridiculous finish. It did remind me of one of the most underrated matches ever (Cena/Big Show JD 09), so I wouldn't call it a bad match by any means. But my goodness, why doesn't Ryback have any explosiveness?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, that match was pretty bad. Easily their worst match together. I wasn't expecting anything amazing, but I was expecting better than that.

**


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Guys I just tuned into the show and only caught Punk/Ryback. How was the rest of the show?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Ryback SUCKED. Punk looked like he didn't give a shit.

Bad match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

it started off decent but just went down hill, cut 10-15 mins and its ok, I thought bryan/orton was an iron man ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Guys I just tuned into the show and only caught Punk/Ryback. How was the rest of the show?


WHC match and Rhodes/Shield were good, but everything else was just there. Skip all the other matches.

EDIT: ...And my stream is dead. Hopefully the main event is full of overbooking and nonsense.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Wow, my PPV channel just went out. Wtf. Says technical difficulties.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

How was RVD/Del Rio?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Guys I just tuned into the show and only caught Punk/Ryback. How was the rest of the show?


Watch Shield/Rhodes asap. FUN match. Everything else hasn't exactly been PPV worthy. Del Rio/RVD is fun but predictable and never got out of first gear.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Guys I just tuned into the show and only caught Punk/Ryback. How was the rest of the show?


The Rhodes/Shield match was tremendous. Easily the best tag match I've seen in a long time. I have it at ★★★★1/2. The rest of the show has been average.

Hoping Bryan/Orton doesn't disappoint. Should be a good one.

Edit- Dammit Sky Sports.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Someone please PM me with a decent stream. This is bullshit. The cable company says the wait time on hold is ten minutes. :frustrate


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

my stream is down as well


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Sky Sports is completely down. Not sure I care honestly. 

Brazzers time maybe?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Oh, it must be a problem in the arena. It's back now, and the announcer is just standing there not saying anything for like two minutes.

They're saying it's a power outage.

For those who order on PPV, do you find that it's hard to use the internet at the same time? Whenever I load a page, the PPV channel starts skipping, as far as picture and sound. It doesn't do that on any other channel, but it happens every PPV.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Rumour has it there is a power outage at the venue.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Tag match **** 1/4

Punk/Ryback: **


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank god we're back

That was gonna be bad :lol.


----------



## tigermaskfan23 (May 30, 2013)

I hope this is the best place to ask this question but is youtube the best place to watch classic wrestling matches like from NWA, WCW and early to mid 90s WWF? I have no specific matches I am just in the mood for some good classic wrestling matches from them. Or can you suggest any other place to go see matches from them other then youtube?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^youtube and dailymotion


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao at all of this. Did Big Show even punch Orton?

Wait, that was the end of the PPV? hahahahah


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

That ending :ti


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Wow, no posts since the PPV came back on the air. You guys were really into the main event huh? 

I thought it was a great ending. Could have been better had Show covered Orton with Bryan but who knows what they have in store for us. Wrestling purists may be disappointed in the lack of an actual finish but those who see wrestling for what it is and don't expect it to be something else should see the brilliance in this stoyline.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Why do Big Show's punches look like slaps? 

Maddox's facial expressions were great.

Can't even speak on the match, because my picture kept freezing, even after the technical difficulties were supposed to be fixed. At least I got credited for the PPV. Seemed pretty good from what I could tell, and the crowd was hot. lol at the ending, though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Here come the refunds :lol.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Match was going so good, but damn. What the hell was that? :show

Meh, the PPV was alright. If Punk/Ryback didn't end so stupidly, I would call it a good PPV. At least we got to see a feel good moment and we had a really good crowd.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I was enjoying this match a lot more than Night of Champions but that fucking ending was so awful. fpalm


----------



## Caponex75 (Jan 17, 2007)

Liked Big Show punching Orton but was completely disappointed in the lack of a ending. I would of liked them to continue the match and maybe go to a draw or something else. Just felt like the match was really picking up incredible steam near the end there.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Is it me but I really like that match like MOTN worthy, that was pretty good


The ending was facepalm worthy though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Crowd definitely wasn't hot, my man. They were pretty dead bar a few of Bryan's offensive flurries. The power outage really killed the flow. The match was actually somewhat decent until that god awful ending. I hope their buyrates suffer horribly for all of this. This is NOT how you end two straight PPVs...


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Thought the Bryan/Orton match was again, incredibly mediocre. **1/2 at best for it. 

Only thing really worth watching from this PPV was the Rhodes/Shield tag.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

WWE couldn't figure out an ending. So they decided not to have one.

A vacant wwe champion for two months......

This angle's is a bag of lol's


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Like I said earlier, I enjoyed what I saw of Rhodes/Shield, and that Cross Rhodes was awesome. I enjoyed Punk/Ryback. At least ***1/4 for me. Bryan/Orton was just okay again, only a little better until that dumbass ending. 

I would have much rather Show had completed the heel turn than letting his conscience kick in. He's only hurting this story. Trips should have shown up to save this. 

I still can't quit laughing at that ending.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I swear if Show had just covered orton it could of been great.

I;m guessing we'll see a Bryan/Orton/show Triple threat inside HIAC

BTW- Is the Punk/Heyman feud over? Looks like it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You know what the worst part about all of this is? Despite all of this TERRIBLE booking, I STILL wanna see Bryan vs. Orton inside Hell in a Cell in 3 weeks! Because let's hope to god it'll be end of this shit and they can finally put together a worthwhile main event match.

Orton needs to get his shit together and figure out what character he wants to play. Let's try being a heel, Randy.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Bryan and Orton have such bad chemistry. What is with those two? Shield vs. Rhodes was MOTN for me, I enjoyed the opener, and Bryan vs. Orton picked up steam before Big Show's music hit. fpalm

Definitely a better show than NoC, but still way too much filler. I'm not expecting too much from HIAC, so I'm hoping Survivor Series is big and TLC is at least okay. Then the RTWM starts


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Soooooooooooooo...............

There still isn't a WWE champion?

:bosh:StephenA:favre2:kobe:maddow2:tyson:shaq:waffle:allen1:kennyrock4:bryan2:regal:heyman5rton2:HHH:hogan2cena4:bearer:vince4:renee


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I thought Bryan-Orton from the dark match when they were here in Ottawa was better than that PPV main event to be perfectly honest.

RVD vs. ADR - **1/2
Real Americans vs. Khali/Santino - *1/4 (* for Cesaro swing)
Axel vs. Truth - *1/2
AJ Lee vs. Brie Bella - *1/2
Rhodes Family vs. The Shield - ***1/2
Wyatt vs. Kingston - stream crapped out, didn't watch
Punk vs. Ryback - **1/4
Bryan vs. Orton - **1/2

not a good PPV at all and that main event was very underwhelming.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler vs. Sandow - **3/4
RVD vs. ADR - ***1/4
Real Americans vs. Khali/Santino - ** (God bless Cesaro)
Axel vs. Truth - *
AJ Lee vs. Brie Bella - **
Rhodes Family vs. The Shield - ****1/4
Wyatt vs. Kingston - *1/2
Punk vs. Ryback - **1/2
Bryan vs. Orton - ***1/4

Bah, maybe we do need Sheamus and Cena after all :cena5


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

RVD vs. Del Rio - ****
Rhodes Family vs. The Shield - ****1/2*
CM Punk vs. Ryback - ***1/4*
Bryan vs. Orton - **3/4*

Awful show.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Ziggler vs Sandow - Didn't watch
RVD vs Del Rio - ★★1/2
Real Americans vs. Khali/Santino - ★ (Cesaro saved that match)
Axel vs R-Truth - ★
AJ Lee vs Brie Bella - ★3/4
Rhodes Family vs. The Shield - ★★★★1/2
Wyatt vs Kingston - ★★
Punk vs Ryback - ★★1/4
Bryan vs Orton - ★★1/2

Horrible PPV aside from the awesome tag match. Still miles better than the Night of Champions PPV which isn't saying a lot. Not liking the direction of the WWE's PPVs so far. At least the TV matches this year make up for most of the lackluster PPVs...


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Can we please get Cesaro out of this stupid tag team and Dolph to stop doing dark matches? The fuck.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So I'm the only one who enjoyed Punk/Ryback.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> So I'm the only one who enjoyed Punk/Ryback.


The Punk mark in me enjoyed it too somewhat. Simple but effective story for most of the match, but then we got a horrible ending, and Ryback couldn't seem to get out of first gear. This is exactly precisely why I am not big on hosses/fatties/monsters compared to others here. Sometimes things work out; other times these big guys just make everything drag.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Not surprised pretty much everyone has the Rhodes/Shield tag as their MOTN. It's the only match on the card I actually wanted to see. Expected some of the other matches to be at least solid though. I'll see what I think for myself, probably tomorrow. 

Back to the HHH doc. I'm glad he admitted WM25 v Orton was disappointing (that's putting it lightly but yeah, didn't expect him to criticize his own work on the DVD). What I don't get is how he's this guy with so much pull, such a good working relationship with Vince, and he's saying they were handcuffed by the stip. Yeah they absolutely were but why wasn't he able to exert his influence and get them to make it a gimmick match? It should've been no holds barred or whatever. The storyline called for an all out war as Trips said so like... what the fuck? Is it seriously an unwritten rule that the Wrestlemania main event can't be a gimmick match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> So I'm the only one who enjoyed Punk/Ryback.


Problem was it started off well but just went down hill after too long, should have cut 15 mins of it and it would of been ok, Ryback has no business having long matches

@fumnyfaces I love matches with fatties/ monsters etc, but only certain ones can have long matches

You guys are selling orton/Bryan short, the sd match is still their best, and this was not a classic but it's in the 3 1/4-1/2 range for me


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Rhodes/Shield was the best tag team match in a LONG time. Like REALLY long time. There really wasn't any flaws. Such an effective match structure that played off a simple story. *****1/2* at least and definitely a top 5 match this year.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Does WWE even entertain?



Saint Dick said:


> Not surprised pretty much everyone has the Rhodes/Shield tag as their MOTN. It's the only match on the card I actually wanted to see. Expected some of the other matches to be at least solid though. I'll see what I think for myself, probably tomorrow.
> 
> Back to the HHH doc. I'm glad he admitted WM25 v Orton was disappointing (that's putting it lightly but yeah, didn't expect him to criticize his own work on the DVD). What I don't get is how he's this guy with so much pull, such a good working relationship with Vince, and he's saying they were handcuffed by the stip. Yeah they absolutely were but why wasn't he able to exert his influence and get them to make it a gimmick match? It should've been no holds barred or whatever. The storyline called for an all out war as Trips said so like... what the fuck? Is it seriously an unwritten rule that the Wrestlemania main event can't be a gimmick match?


Also find it strange considering the very next year, the main event was a gimmick match


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Can't think of a match that needed a gimmick more than HHH/Orton at 25. The doc reminded me how good the build was. Shame about the match(es).


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

So heard about Battleground's (lolname) ending. :lmao

Don't you see what they're trying to do? They're saying that this is the shit we'll have to deal with in the absence of Cena, so it's better to welcome him back with open arms and start cheering him or they're gonna feed us the BIG SHOW


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Big Show > Randy Orton


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Alim said:


> Big Show > Randy Orton


this


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm thinking about getting Big Show: A Giant's World, the 3 disc DVD set from 2011. Big Show is awesome.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I have no idea what's on that set but I bet it's awesome. BIG SHOW


----------



## swagger_ROCKS (Jun 5, 2010)

Was really disappointed in the RVD/Rio match. Can't believe they didn't go in full for that gimmick match.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Seems like I missed an amazing PPV last night...


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

So Vacant is still the WWE Champ! Huzzah!


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Battleground ratings:

Ziggler/Sandow- **
RVD/Del Rio- ***1/4
Santino&Khali/Real Americans- *, rating for that Cesaro spin
Axel/Truth- DUD
AJ/Bella- DUD
Shield/Rhodes Family- ****
Kofi/Wyatt- **1/2
Ryback/Punk- ***
Orton/Bryan- ***1/2


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Guess I was the only one who enjoyed the show.. :hmm:

Sandow/Ziggler - **1/2
ADR/RVD - ***1/2
Real Americans/Santino and Khali - **
Axel/Truth - *1/2
Rhodes Family/Shield - ****1/4
Kingston/Wyatt - **1/2
Ryback/Punk - **
Orton/Bryan - **3/4

Wish Ryback/Punk was better, didn't mind the finish of the main event but once again the match disappoint. Overall fun show with lots of great moments. Better than NOC that left a bad taste.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> I swear if Show had just covered orton it could of been great.
> 
> I;m guessing we'll see a Bryan/Orton/show Triple threat inside HIAC
> 
> *BTW- Is the Punk/Heyman feud over? Looks like it.*


http://www.wwe.com/videos/cm-punk-s...hands-on-paul-heyman-wwecom-exclusiv-26153967

NOPE

anyways looks like I did the right thing and watched MLB & NFL night games (even though they were blowouts)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Guess I'll go ahead and toss out some ratings:

*Del Rio vs. RVD - ** 3/4* (They really never got out of wrestling the same speed throughout the entire match. It was fun for an opener but damn near every spot was predictable, and there was no drama near the end at all. I appreciate Del Rio winning clean, but this match should've either been higher on the card or should've been booked differently for it to go 17 minutes. I liked their NOC match more tbh, but I'm one of the few.)

*Shield vs. Rhodes - *** 3/4* (I had expectations for this match but nowhere near the level of most of you other guys. This was batshit fun though. Like I was marking like a little kid throughout the majority of it. Cody & Goldie looked fantastic in all aspects here and the match felt incredibly important. I like what funnyfaces said about it feeling like a 1980s NWA tag match, because that's precisely how it felt. I don't think it's ****+ MOTYC material because I think once people watch it again they're not gonna mark as hard or have that feel good moment, plus there was never a moment where I thought Shield was gonna win. We never saw any Reigns' spears or Rollins' springboard knees or anything like that, so this was basically the Rhodes show. Not that I'm complaining, I just don't think it was _that _special. MOT easily though.)

As far as everything else goes, I wouldn't put anything past ** 1/2 because of several different reasons. Half the card was complete filler (Cesaro Swing though :mark and the rest of it just wasn't good. Punk/Ryback almost put me to sleep and that finish was awful. Bryan/Orton had a dead crowd because of the power outage, then we got that LOLworthy ending. So yeah, another PPV, another stinker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only watched the Rhodes/Shield tag in full. Was awesome. ***3/4. Would have been ***** if Goldust did a moonsault too instead of a crossbody :side: .

:lmao at the main event finish. Glad I didn't sit through the match just to have THAT end it. Has a major title been vacant this long since the WM incident of 2004?


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

10/10 PPV

The Shield vs Cody Rhodes and ? ***** Shield OMGZ. Who is Goldust? Why is he so weird? OMGZ Dean Ambrose. OMGZ SPEAR!!!

CM Punk vs Ryback ***** Punk did a bunch of moves and stuff. And CULT OF PERSONALITY!!!!! MY GOD!!!!. Five star classic.

Bryan vs Orton ***** Bryan YES YES YES. He clearly carried Orton all night though. He's that damn good.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*The only ones that matter from Battleground*

RVD/Del Rio - **
Shield/Rhodes - ****
Punk/Ryback - ***
Bryan/Orton - **

Decent show I guess. The two I expected to deliver, delivered whilst we had a harmless WHC match and an annoying main event, but we all expected it to be pretty underwhelming. A lot better than NOC.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just saw a clip of Cesaro's Giant Swing on Khali.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cesaro needs to start using the UFO now. People would lose their shit if he got someone like Khali or Henry in it. Just give the guy the damn WWE Title. He can feud with Bryan, forget about Orton.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Well judging by the reactions he has been getting from the Swing they may split him from Swagger hb), turn him face and (hopefully) give him a proper singles push.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Guess I'll go ahead and toss out some ratings:
> \
> 
> *Shield vs. Rhodes - *** 3/4* (I had expectations for this match but nowhere near the level of most of you other guys. This was batshit fun though. Like I was marking like a little kid throughout the majority of it. Cody & Goldie looked fantastic in all aspects here and the match felt incredibly important. I like what funnyfaces said about it feeling like a 1980s NWA tag match, because that's precisely how it felt. I don't think it's ****+ MOTYC material because I think once people watch it again they're not gonna mark as hard or have that feel good moment, plus there was never a moment where I thought Shield was gonna win. We never saw any Reigns' spears or Rollins' springboard knees or anything like that, so this was basically the Rhodes show. Not that I'm complaining, I just don't think it was _that _special. MOT easily though.)


I agree, I think when most rewatch the tag they will come down from their ****1/4-1/2 ratings, I have it around ***1/4, Cody and Goldust were stellar, but the shield didn't were not amazing as we usually see them. Fun match though

I thought orton/bryan was decent, but mostly because Bryan was mostly on offense the WHOLE time, which I love his offense and Orton didnt control that much and have 50x headlock like his usual self


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That's the problem they're gonna face with Cesaro. If they let him go out there and do what what he's fully capable of doing, the crowd's gonna start taking a real liking to him. If he went out there and did what we've seen him do on the indies (toss up European, giant swing, UFO, toss guys around like they're weightless, etc.) there's no way they'd be able to keep him heel. I think they may going in that direction though with the face turn. I've read reports on it and he clearly impressed last night.

I wouldn't be against more Shield/Rhodes match. A rematch for the Tag Titles? Cody vs. Ambrose for the US Title? Cody vs. Rollins on RAW? Goldie vs. Reigns? I'll take em all.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Goldust vs. Reigns would be amazing.

I legit cringed at the bump Goldie took on the floor after missing the running crossbody. Looked naaaaaasty.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

All for that if the best for Cesaro and he gets over, but again they are WAY to MANY top faces and there is NOT a top heel. Your top heel wears a suit ? That is a probelm


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

That's kinda how it was in the Attitude Era, though. Vince was the top heel.

I will admit that the roster is super thin on top, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Does anyone think Triple H will somehow punish the Shield? Maybe force them all to put their titles on the line tonight or put them in the short end of a handicap match for once?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Weren't they in the short end of a handicap match a couple weeks ago?

I could see some retribution for them losing, potentially to jumptstart them rebelling against the corporation a la Big Show's current role.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Weren't they in the short end of a handicap match a couple weeks ago?


DUH, that's what I get for not watching the product every week...


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It was an amazing match, btw. You should check it out. REIGNS goes postal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Goldie vs. Reigns?





FluxCapacitor said:


> Goldust vs. Reigns would be amazing.


Posted this on my Twitter the moment I finished watching the tag match:

"Now with Goldust back in WWE... can we get Goldust Vs REIGNS on Raw tonight please? Or in the very near future at least."

Seems we all want it :mark:. BALL IS IN YOUR COURT, WWE. MAKE IT HAPPEN!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Goldust/REIGNS = :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The list of RAW matches I've yet to see this year is getting too long. I may just have to wait for the blu ray to come out.  The huge handicap match we're talking about, Orton/Bryan Street Fight, Orton/Goldust, the gauntlet that ended with Bryan/Cesaro, and I'm sure I'm missing some. Still haven't seen Cesaro/Zayn either.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I really dug that PPV, didn't have very high expectations and I didn't buy it so as long as it had something good to take away from it, I was happy. 

Some notes:
Del Rio winning clean was surprising, I was calling for a Ricardo turn here. Hope Dolph gets his belt back soon...
Cesaro :mark:
R-Truth had a really cool video piece on him that should have been played before his match with Axel, would have made the match look like it meant more. 
Shield vs. Cody/Goldust delivered big time, the crowd was hot for this one and the match & storyline was excellent. Everything I love about wrestling right here. 
Bray's crab walk was creepy, legit mindfuck. 
Punk/Ryback was okay, Punk could have at least kicked Ryback in the head after the low-blow. 
Bryan/Orton was getting really good before that finish, ending the PPV with Show on top should only have been the case if he finally knocked out Triple H, which is what everybody wants. 

I'm expecting more crying Show on RAW tonight, and I can see 3 Cell Matches happening at the next PPV. Punk/Heyman, Bryan/Orton, & Bray/Kane.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The list of RAW matches I've yet to see this year is getting too long. I may just have to wait for the blu ray to come out.  The huge handicap match we're talking about, Orton/Bryan Street Fight, Orton/Goldust, the gauntlet that ended with Bryan/Cesaro, and I'm sure I'm missing some. Still haven't seen Cesaro/Zayn either.


Damn, really? I love all the matches you listed, which seems to be the forum-wide consensus bar Orton/Bryan which receives a bit of a mixed reaction. It's basically the match the catapulted Bryan into the spot he's in now, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ Yeahhh, I can't find the motivation to watch wrestling on my computer too often. Idk what it is. And I'm so busy throughout the week I just forget about shit until it's released on dvd.



Walter Sobchak said:


> I'm expecting more crying Show on RAW tonight, and I can see 3 Cell Matches happening at the next PPV. Punk/Heyman, Bryan/Orton, & Bray/Kane.


GROSS

I can't even predict anything for HIAC. Looking at the way they've been booking things recently, we'll probably get Orton/Bryan/Show inside the Cell...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For HIAC I'm kinda expecting Punk Vs Heyman/Ryback/Axel or maybe just Heyman/Ryback (leaving Axel for some shitty IC title defence urgh) inside the cell, then the WWE title match as either just Bryan Vs Orton again, or add Big Show to the mix to make it a triple threat but with Big Show being punished for what he did last night by being told he MUST ensure Orton wins making it sort of a handicap match until he goes into business for himself and screws Orton (hopefully without making HIM the champion lol, I like Show and all but no, he shouldn't be the champ). Don't want any more cell matches, the gimmick is already dead as it is, don't need to bury it any deeper.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm more excited about seeing who Del Rio will defend against now that Van Dam is gone (I believe). Pretty sure Mysterio is set to make his return any week now, so I'm all for that. I'd certainly be up for Ziggler getting back in the title picture too, but who the fuck knows what they're gonna do with that guy. Maybe Cody gets catapulted into the scene?

Cal, your predictions look terrible.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cal, your predictions look terrible.


Yep. And unfortunately it's what I half expect WWE to do .


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Expecting Punk-Ryback II and Orton-Bryan-Show at HIAC. I don't think WWE has faith in Orton-Bryan as the top program anymore, or they've lost interest.

Talking about Raw TV matches, there were so many awesome TV matches earlier in the year and mid-2013. They've cooled off now though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Odd place to ask but does anyone know the name of the sister/affiliate site to XWT that you can get music and stuff off of? They were advertising it a couple months ago but I forgot the name.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Odd place to ask but does anyone know the name of the sister/affiliate site to XWT that you can get music and stuff off of? They were advertising it a couple months ago but I forgot the name.


http://all4nothin.net/ ?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Random thought - know I notices something recently watching the divas (besides their looks) Brie wears completely regular sneakers, isnt that dangerous for drop kick and any other type of kick ? must hurt like hell


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Anyone else think Goldust's ring work is better than ever? I was a fan of him in his younger years, but I've been amazed at the quality of his output since his comeback.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> Random thought - know I notices something recently watching the divas (besides their looks) Brie wears completely regular sneakers, isnt that dangerous for drop kick and any other type of kick ? must hurt like hell


*If the other person is taking it right then it's not. Not like the Bellas are known for workin stiff either. Botched kick is gonna hurt regardless. If I was working with Brie then I'd have much greater safety concerns than her footwear.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloading Raw 07 atm. Feb finished first for some reason. First ep is the one where Undertaker comes out to decide who he's challenging at WM. So Cena (WWE Champ), Batista (WHC) and Lashley (ECW Champ) come out to see who he picks. Obviously he picks Batista. Then HBK comes out to say that since that now leaves the WWE title free at WM, he wants to challenge for it. Edge and Orton come out saying the same thing. Vince makes a triple threat for the main event to see who faces Cena at WM. Long story short I couldn't help but :lmao at poor Lashley just stood around in the ring with nobody giving a fuck about him being there or his ECW title :lmao.

FLAIR SHOOT ON CARLITO :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ziggler/Sandow - **1/4
ADR/RVD - ***1/4
Real Americans/Santhalino - *
Axel/Truth - 1/2*
AJ/Brie - *1/2
Shield/Rhodes - ****1/4 (Dat storytellin')
Kofi/Wyatt - *1/4
Punk/Ryback - **
Orton/Bryan - ***3/4 (Call me crazy yeah :side

Meh. Still better than NOC.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Ziggler/Sandow - **1/4
> ADR/RVD - ***1/4
> Real Americans/Santhalino - *
> Axel/Truth - 1/2*
> ...


http://youtu.be/E-qYlJ7Ye54?t=2m55s


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> Random thought - know I notices something recently watching the divas (besides their looks) Brie wears completely regular sneakers, isnt that dangerous for drop kick and any other type of kick ? must hurt like hell


Well the same could be said for Cena then


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^:cam your right


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Downloading Raw 07 atm. Feb finished first for some reason. First ep is the one where Undertaker comes out to decide who he's challenging at WM. So Cena (WWE Champ), Batista (WHC) and Lashley (ECW Champ) come out to see who he picks. Obviously he picks Batista. Then HBK comes out to say that since that now leaves the WWE title free at WM, he wants to challenge for it. Edge and Orton come out saying the same thing. Vince makes a triple threat for the main event to see who faces Cena at WM. Long story short I couldn't help but :lmao at poor Lashley just stood around in the ring with nobody giving a fuck about him being there or his ECW title :lmao.
> 
> FLAIR SHOOT ON CARLITO :mark:.


It starts off pretty good (apart from the Rosie/Trump shit) but then turns to shit when they reach May. I was so bored at that point I could barely finish all the way until June where I set the finish. Finally managed it last week and I still have to watch anything from _Vengeance: Night of Champions_.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> http://youtu.be/E-qYlJ7Ye54?t=2m55s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SqbBE7vqDE


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

*Owen/Bulldog vs Austin/HBK from 5/26/97* is an awesome tag match and one of the best in Raw history. 10 minutes of non-stop action that consisted of 4 quality workers. Austin and Michaels clicked right off the bat as Stone Cold kept up to the fast paced style of his partner and of course you had the already cohesive team of the Hart Foundation on the other side. They just don't make em like this anymore. *****1/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Alim said:


> *Owen/Bulldog vs Austin/HBK from 5/26/97* is an awesome tag match and *is* the best in Raw history. 10 minutes of non-stop action that consisted of 4 quality workers. Austin and Michaels clicked right off the bat as Stone Cold kept up to the fast paced style of his partner and of course you had the already cohesive team of the Hart Foundation on the other side. They just don't make em like this anymore. *****1/4*


fixed for you


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

***1/2 MAX on the best day ever for that tag. Have never and likely will never "get" it's greatness. Good yes, but great? No. Best Raw match ever? :lmao not even close. Overrated as fuck along with a certain other Raw tag match from 2001...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> fixed for you







Still a badass Tag.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

In addition to being the GOAT Raw match, I love that pre-match segment with Chris and Chris.

Gonna rewatch the main event from last night to get an official opinion on it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Battleground now. Hype for the mediocrity.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Let me know what I should watch plz, Ownage. I know you'll know what's legit and what isn't.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Rhodes is EPIC. Watched it twice already, the ending gives me chillz :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How was the crowd during the event.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> How was the crowd during the event.


They were up and down. GREAT during the Shield match and the opener too. Didn't really watch anything else other than the main event (which I'm almost finished with). There they were silent at times and other parts of the match they came to life.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ADR/RVD was a solid opener. Not great, not bad. Worth a watch if you're a fan of either guy.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Soooooooooooooooo Battleground eh? I personally thought it was pretty fucking great but that's because I watched the GOAT opening video package, Rhodes/Shield, Orton/Bryan and nothing else. In that regard, Battleground was absolutely fine in my book and actually highly enjoyable. I'm being serious with the opening promo package, I thought it was one of the best they've done in a while and it really got me pumped. 

Shield/Rhodes - ******, MOTN and kind of amazing. I was SO behind the Rhodes in this match and desperately wanted them to win. Such a feel good moment at the end too and if I'm not mistaken, I think Cody did a high knee followed by a Suck It at one stage during the match. I'm not fully certain but that's what it looked like to me in which case :mark:. They totally had me thinking Rollins was going to sneak it even though I already knew who won the damn match and holy crap did I ever pop for the Cross Rhodes. Brilliant match and I've watched it twice already. 

Orton/Bryan - ****1/2*. VERY slow start to this and it really took a while to get going but once it did, I think it was great. The whole bit they did on the outside with Orton just destroying Bryan against the barricade and then the ring post really played into his whole psycho deal. Nice character work there. I also really liked how Orton kept selling the arm throughout the match with the constant shaking it out and checking up on it. I'm telling you, those dropkicks in the corner from Bryan make me :mark: so hard every time he does them. The finishing sequence was hype and just like Rhodes/Shield, they had me on the edge of my seat even though I already knew what happened. I suspect and hope that when these two get the go ahead for a match with a decisive finish at HIAC they kick things into another gear. I fully believe we haven't seen the best of them yet. It's probably a minority opinion but I like their chemistry. I enjoyed this, I enjoyed NOC and I enjoyed their Raw match from a few months back. I'm looking forward to their match in the cell.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> I'm not mistaken, I think Cody did a high knee followed by a Suck It at one stage during the match.


That is indeed what happened.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Battleground*

Held up pretty well on a rewatch. Starts off slow with the "feeling out process", headlocks and shit but the pace continuously picks up and we get some very good back and forth action from both guys. Bryan works on the shoulder a few times throughout and hits most of his big moves except the "knee that beat John Cena". Orton tries some new stuff like a Boston Crab, Powerbomb counter to a top rope move as well as teasing a powerbomb through the announce table that they never go through with. Crowd comes to life when finishes are teased but just as it was getting _really_ good towards the end, out comes Big Show to ruin everything. Still can't believe they'd go through with such an awful finish. Even a double count-out would have been better. A huge upgrade from their Night of Champions match and they're really starting to find their chemistry to put on good matches now. I really hope this wasn't all last night and they go all out for Hell in a Cell if Big Show doesn't fuck things up by being inserted into the title hunt. ★★★¾ but I'll take ¼ away due to the horrendous ending and some slow portions including the beginning. So end rating is ★★★½.

Also seeing the title in front of the announce table like that reminded me so much of this picture 



Spoiler: pic


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jericho/Benoit vs Austin/Trips is the GOAT Raw tag, nothing else, not even the 1997 tag you listed, can touch it. I :mark: every time I watch Benoit pumping Jericho up before the match, you know he was just speaking from the heart there. So much goodness.


I need to find a good link to the Rhodes/Shield tag, ADR/RVD Hardcore, and Bryan/Orton matches from last night. Those seem to be the only things worth watching. If anyone has one I'd greatly appreciate a pm with the link.

Edit- C2D that picture is awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Can't rep you right now and I don't really use PM so here you go: http://watchwrestling.net/watch-wwe-battleground-2013/


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Callamus said:


> That is indeed what happened.


CODY EMULATING THE GAME. Cody Rhodes is a Triple H Guy. I approve. (Y)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What am I watching right now? Santino, Khali and Hornswoggle followed by R-Truth? Jesus.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

There's a button somewhere that says FAST FORWARD on it. I think it might be time to start using it.


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Did anyone notice Khali counting to 3 while he was being pinned? Holy fuck it actually made me laugh out loud.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

@Starbuck: yeah I just utilized that button. Wanted to see Cesaro's swing.



Raging Eboue said:


> Did anyone notice Khali counting to 3 while he was being pinned? Holy fuck it actually made me laugh out loud.


Hahaha I didn't notice that.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

@ Starbuck - I'm sure it was Cody's way of STICKING IT TO THE MAN, no? I'm sure that mini-feud is far from over.

All I've seen from the PPV is Cesaro's Swing. :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I too made sure to catch Cesaro's swing and as awesome as it was, I have to admit, Khali counting the three along with the ref just about killed me. :lmao Damn that was funny.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watched Rhodes/Shield in full for the first time since I didn't catch it all last night. Turns out I only missed the first few minutes.

Everything about the time the Rhodes/Shield got was done really, really well. Interview with Renee Young was really good - all three contributed great stuff (not surprising with Dusty, but Cody has really gotten good with his promos). Goldust as a worker in 2013 is really impressive. His match with Orton a few weeks ago was good, and tonight was no different. Cody is proving himself to be a face that people can get behind, and it helps that he's up against the ultimate antagonist right now. His face turn didn't start out well, but things have really picked up for him. I've never marked so hard for that Cross Rhodes, and the amount of torque he got behind it was just insane. ****

Side note: I'd really like to see Ambrose/Goldust, and Cody/Seth in singles.

Also, I too noticed what I thought was a high knee, but the camera angle made it tough to see, and I totally heard "Suck it", but Cody has his back to the camera so the crotch chop wasn't clear. Foreshadowing plz.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Can't rep you right now and I don't really use PM so here you go: http://watchwrestling.net/watch-wwe-battleground-2013/




Man thank you, I can't rep you right now or else I would. Thanks a lot.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HIGH AS FUCK ABOUT TO WATCH RAW.

This should be BOSS. Let's hope that the GOAT does something awesome .

:HHH2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yes, let's hope that the GOAT does something incredible today.

unk7

Rhodes/Shield still holds up. Don't know why Orton/Bryan gets so much hate though. I don't think they do anything bad.

EDIT: Oh my goodness, we are going to get two classic Shield matches in two days.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> @ Starbuck - I'm sure it was Cody's way of STICKING IT TO THE MAN, no? I'm sure that mini-feud is far from over.
> 
> All I've seen from the PPV is Cesaro's Swing. :mark:


I can see WWE breaking Cesaro away from The Real Americans and turning him face soon. His swing has been getting over lately, and Cesaro has other moves like his sick uppercut that the crowd can get behind as a face. And his great in-ring skills in general makes me think he would benefit more as a face.

I'm not even a Cesaro fan, but he deserves better than teaming with Swagger.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Good lord. Just saw the Rhodes/Shield tag. How awesome was that? It made me feel like a kid again watching wrestling and rooting for the good guys to prevail over evil. So often these days I find myself rooting for the heel because his character is more relatable and interesting, so it was really nice to just get totally sucked into the Rhodes family story. I think what really gave this match the "old school NWA" feel is the pacing and character work by the guys. Cody and Dustin both played the baby face in peril so well, I almost thought I was watching a Ricky Morton performance. By the time the match hit its crescendo with Dusty decking Dean with bionic elbow, and Cody hitting that beautiful Cross Rhodes, I was in full on mark mode.

Sometimes instead of over analyzing matches for character work, proper psychology and story telling, it's more fun to just get caught up in the moment and enjoy the good guys prevailing in the end. So happy this match happened.

Seems trifling to give it a star rating because on the FUN scale it was clearly off the charts. But if pressed I'd say in the neighborhood of **** seems fair. Haven't had that kind of fun watching a Tag match in ages. Bless you Rhodes family and The Shield. That ruled.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The GOAT has not been on Raw for over 2 years now. The other GOAT departed from us six years ago. 

lol @ that opening segment. YOU'RE FIRED!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> The GOAT has not been on Raw for over 2 years now. The other GOAT departed from us six years ago.
> 
> lol @ that opening segment. YOU'RE FIRED!


The 3rd GOAT passed away 8 years ago this coming November. Can't forget about him.:angel

:lmao at the opening segment


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

GOAT #1 was last seen at the summerslam panel drunk making jokes and getting JR fired, before that gave the Miz his finisher for some reason ?

GOAT #2 is in San Antonio hunting with a grizzly beard nowadays

Back to raw- I like show, great in-ring but this is crazy, why is he the focal point on raw now ? nobody cares. The main event tonite is :mark: though,


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Guys, the true GOAT will never leave us :trips2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at this Bob Backlund promo and LMFAO at Punk getting pissed off at how terrible R-Truth was. Never have I seen such a huge difference in the quality of a hot tag and a FIP segment.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Okay I might be a complete idiot, but what the fuck is a FIP? I've been watching wrestling since 1991-1992 and I never heard that phrase until I joined the forum in July, and I see it all the time but have NO CLUE what it means. And I know the answer is gonna make me feel stupid but I gotta ask anyway.

Redskins- HBK is looking awfully grizzly Adams these days, hahaha. Does he ever NOT wear a camouflage Gamoo/Hunting apparel hat?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Okay I might be a complete idiot, but what the fuck is a FIP? I've been watching wrestling since 1991-1992 and I never heard that phrase until I joined the forum in July, and I see it all the time but have NO CLUE what it means. And I know the answer is gonna make me feel stupid but I gotta ask anyway.
> 
> Redskins- HBK is looking awfully grizzly Adams these days, hahaha. Does he ever NOT wear a camouflage Gamoo/Hunting apparel hat?


FIP is Face in Peril, like during a heel control segment.

Also, Shawn shaved his beard. 

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2013/0917/565661/wwe-champion-to-be-crowned-at-battleground/

I expect Shawn to be the 3rd option. PLEASE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> FIP is Face in Peril, like during a heel control segment.
> 
> Also, Shawn shaved his beard.
> 
> ...


Ugh, I just used that phrase 2 posts ago talking about the Rhodes tag. Now I feel like an idiot, but thank you hah.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Would mark the fuck out if HBK or Foley was the 3rd option.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ADORING Orton since his heel turn.

Straight up BALLIN' and deserves his spot for sure. Hope we get a Punk-Orton feud soon .


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm liking Orton way more now. Still not cracking my top 5 or anything, but he's become enjoyable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Okay I might be a complete idiot, but what the fuck is a FIP? I've been watching wrestling since 1991-1992 and I never heard that phrase until I joined the forum in July, and I see it all the time but have NO CLUE what it means. And I know the answer is gonna make me feel stupid but I gotta ask anyway.
> 
> Redskins- HBK is looking awfully grizzly Adams these days, hahaha. Does he ever NOT wear a camouflage Gamoo/Hunting apparel hat?


haha he does, never realized he was that much of a country guy, that actually the ONLY term I dont understand either, I think it has to do with the babyfaces comback or control portion



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> FIP is Face in Peril, like during a heel control segment.
> 
> Also, Shawn shaved his beard.
> 
> ...


can a man dream, love hhh/taker hiac because of him. he added to it. It probably is him tbh


Edit : :mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> ADORING Orton since his heel turn.
> 
> Straight up BALLIN' and deserves his spot for sure. Hope we get a Punk-Orton feud soon .





Brye said:


> I'm liking Orton way more now. Still not cracking my top 5 or anything, but he's become enjoyable.


Didn't expect this at all, specially from King of Kings. 

Fuck, this Raw has been so boring.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not a very good RAW by any means, but :lmao :cena2. I don't even know what to say about that news. Hopefully Del Rio squashes Cena so that Cena can re-return at RR 14


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I would actually pay $60 for the ppv if cena/adr for whc was true, Please Cena win, please, so that title can be elevated

and then guess who Cena drops it to after a long reign ? :ziggler3 Perfection


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I've been enjoying Orton character wise since the night after Battleground when he assaulted Miz. It's nice to see him with some intensity again.

Sadly, can't say the same about his matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Wow... I actually wanna buy Hell in a Cell now. Never thought I'd be so stoked for a Cena return. It'd be fuckin awesome if Del Rio won. 

Orton/Bryan inside the Cell could FINALLY be something great from those two.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not sure I'm buying the Cell. I think I'll just wait for Survivor Series. There is a small chance for the cell PPV with HBK being the ref for Bryan/Orton and the match itself being in Hell in a Cell... and I am even intrigued in the Cena returns as it probably means Del Rio's losing the World Title... THANK GOD. Punk doing something important would certainly help the chances, although if it's just another match with Ryback... meh. If they do Punk vs. Heyman Hell in a Cell though, which would provide a definitive ending for Punk/Heyman (despite it probably being a shitty Cell match), I'd put more consideration into ordering it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Who's ready? :cena5


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Bryan + Cena vs Del Rio?

I AM READY!

Finally a PPV where I get the feeling that I wont waste time turning my stream on for it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

PUNK VS CENA UNIFICATION MATCH PLZ.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> PUNK VS CENA UNIFICATION MATCH PLZ.


I just was saying how the title unification threads/speculation would start. That said, my Mania is this:

Punk/Cena title unification
Bryan/Trips
Brock/Taker

Rock stays away.

Ryback/Goldberg for the lolz.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hell in a Cell is shaping up to look really good.

rton2 :dazzler :hbk
:cena3 :adr
Payoff to unk4 :heyman2 :ryback :axel
And most likely :show :HHH2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> ORTON VS CENA UNIFICATION MATCH PLZ.


Fixed.

Shout out to CrankyVince, FUCK YOU! :vince


----------



## Oda Nobunaga (Jun 12, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I just was saying how the title unification threads/speculation would start. That said, my Mania is this:
> 
> Punk/Cena title unification
> Bryan/Trips
> ...


Goldberg squashes Ryback in eighteen seconds and gets the crowd to chant "Yes!" and "Goldberg" at the same time. I'd mark.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, looks like there might be a shot of Show/HHH now added to the card. With that, plus two title matches, plus potentially whatever conclusion there will be to the Punk/Heyman storyline (hopefully it's the conclusion), we've actually got a fairly stacked card for Hell in a Cell. Might be worth ordering after all. 

And :lmao at HHH's expression right after the first time Show pushed the Shield off him.

WWE Title- Bryan vs. Orton Hell in a Cell with HBK as Special Guest Referee
World Title- John Cena vs. Alberto Del Rio
Big Show vs. HHH
CM Punk vs. Heyman or Ryback

Looking good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Show/Trips please. Trips nearly shitting himself when Show broke free. Both times. :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm very intrigued by Hell In A Cell. If they add some good undercard matches involving Cody and Dolph, then I'll consider ordering.

I have faith in Bryan and Orton to finally have a really good match :bryan rton2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> Fixed.
> 
> Shout out to CrankyVince, FUCK YOU! :vince


That horrible series of matches they had in 09 gave us enough Orton/cena matches to last us a lifetime no thanks

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alim said:


> That horrible series of matches they had in 09 gave us enough Orton/cena matches to last us a lifetime no thanks


And I've seen enough Punk vs Cena (actually enough of Punk alone) to last an eternity.

The only one of the 09 matches I'd call "horrible" is SummerSlam.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Choke2Death said:


> And I've seen enough Punk vs Cena (actually enough of Punk alone) to last an eternity.
> 
> The only one of the 09 matches I'd call "horrible" is SummerSlam.


Punk/Cena is this era's Rock/Austin. WWE tried that experiment with a forced feud between Orton/Cena and it failed. 

Punk/Cena deserves a Wrestlemania match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Well, looks like there might be a shot of Show/HHH now added to the card. With that, plus two title matches, plus potentially whatever conclusion there will be to the Punk/Heyman storyline (hopefully it's the conclusion), we've actually got a fairly stacked card for Hell in a Cell. Might be worth ordering after all.
> 
> And :lmao at HHH's expression right after the first time Show pushed the Shield off him.
> 
> ...


Wow. Didn't watch Raw tonight and don't know what happened but if that's the card then I'm seriously looking forward to HiaC. I know the Orton/Bryan matches haven't set the world on fire but I feel confident they'll produce their best outing in the Cell. It's just impossible for Daniel Bryan to have so many average matches with a guy and not eventually put together a great one, especially with someone like Orton who can be good when he's motivated. Cena/Del Rio could fucking own. I'm a pretty big fan of Del Rio as a worker. I think he's grown into the aggressive heel role perfectly and has been churning out strong performances and good matches on a consistent basis. If they have their best match it would be a MOTYC. HHH/Show is just completely :mark: worthy for me.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Cena's return from a legit arm injury plus Del Rio's storytelling and FINISHER~! is gonna rule.

Miami was hot for Del Rio's title win against Big Show, so hopefully they're good for what should be a pretty stacked card.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's also quite nice to see the Hell in a Cell be used in proper form this time around. The gimmick actually makes sense here for Orton/Bryan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Now just imagine how amazing this PPV would be if Brock Lesnar wasn't an introvert.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched THE ROCK vs UNDERTAKER from Raw 5-10-1998. Pretty solid match that has got me more pumped up to watch the Attitude Era years after having issues trying to get going once I finished 2007.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rhodes Family v Shield was AWESOME. Great tag match.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Odds of HBK screwing Bryan to join the Corpration? Would likely lose my mid if it somehow led to a teacher/student match where HBK comes out if retirement for ONE MORE
MATCH.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Just finished watching the Triple H documentary. Really good and insightful doc, especially towards the end where they went over his new role on the business side of things. He really does have a great mind for the business and the future is in good hands. I just wish they hadn't gone into such great lengths with the whole Stephanie stuff and instead spent more time talking about his rivalries with Foley, Austin, etc.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Odds of HBK screwing Bryan to join the Corpration? *Would likely lose my mid if it somehow led to a teacher/student match where HBK comes out if retirement for ONE MORE
> MATCH.*


:mark: :mark: :mark:

Please make this happen Greg.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I have no interest in HBK pissing on his legacy like Flair by coming out of retirement. I don't like that he's constantly on my TV screen every 2 months to begin with, him ruining his send off would be even worse. Besides, it looks like HBK is a shadow of his former self and has been for a number of years now. He hasn't competed in three years, but his mic work is off too so I can only imagine what his ring work would be like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All I know is WWE better give me more Shield vs RHODES Dynasty stuff soon. 

also, ending to RAW = so many :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Royal Rumble 1/31/10

LIVE from…..…IDFK.

Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson
I don’t have to tell you this was good. ‘Christian’s bread and butter’ is an understatement for this kind of match. The big guy doesn’t even have to be good (and I thought Zeke was mostly damn good here); he’ll just work from underneath and it’ll be compelling no matter what. He opens trying to maybe, possibly, MAYYYBE get the advantage on a collar/elbow tie-up. Of course that doesn’t go in his favour and he gets chucked into the ropes, so he does the ‘fake it and duck to get around the waste’. I love the little bursts of offense. Zeke’s got massive power moves of doom and gigantic Hulk Hogan arms, but he’ll take his time during moves, giving Christian the time to pounce. Even better than the little bursts of offense, are the endings to those little bursts of offense. Yeah, Zeke may take his time during moves, but it’s only going to take one move to get Christian back down to ‘not winning’. There was one in particular where Zeke was trying to catch Christian and Christian kept ducking and dodging, before Zeke NAILSSSSS him from behind with a clothesline. There was also a spectacular one where Christian was trying to get his ‘clap’ thing going and Zeke just runs into him, like he was trying to pull off a clothesline but wound up blasting Christian with his pectoral instead. Have I mentioned fuck Matt Striker? Zeke was busting out tons of cool clubs and clothesline in the match, but there was one in particular that Christian sold like a cruiserweight, and suddenly every other clothesline and club was wiped from my mind because of how insane it was. Then Matt Striker goes ‘oh-HO-HOH LARIAT-OH’. Who the fuck are you, worm? L-“Lariato”? Are you fucking kidding me? What pompous brand of puro fan were you aiming to please with that line? I literally said aloud ‘oh you fucking cunt’ when he spewed that mulch. Thanks for ruining that spot, dick. I’m going to try to stop bringing him up when talking about this. Do people not like Zeke? I loved him in parts of this. I said before, “The big guy doesn’t even have to be good; he’ll (Christian) just work from underneath and it’ll be compelling no matter what”, and maybe that was exaggeration because there were some dull-ish Zeke moments, but they were very, very limited and for most of the match he seemed like the kind of beefy monster heel wrestling needs. Selling wobbly on strikes (I don’t remember a better sell of that Christian-Through-The-Ropes-Kick), tossing his opponent around, the great spot where he chucks Christian’s head into the steps, the chokeslammy thing when Christian was fighting from a neck-vice with SLAPS (which was tremendous). I want to see Zeke in shorter matches because I think he’d rule. OOH! Speaking of slaps, that part where Christian was groggily stopping Zeke’s strike attempts by repeatedly slapping him in the face was utterly awesome. I’m so glad I remembered to mention that. I should also mention how remarkable it is of Christian that he makes his own stinky finisher seem so important and deadly. So…this was good (I now DO have to tell you this was good). I want to watch a bunch of Zeke squashes. I also want to watch 2009-2010 Christian for the rest of my life. ADDING.

The Miz v. MVP
This happened. Um, can I say something about this? Well, the Miz bumped well. Is it bumping? Yeah, falling from a shoulder tackle or landing into the guardrail are bumps, and he did those well, but what do you call moving around jumpy and wonkily after someone knees you in the gut? MVP had two really good verbal sells and this didn’t suck but it’s just a run of the mill, nothing match. Roll-up finish was bizarre and “out of nowhere” in a not-so good way. NOT ADDING.

Sheamus v. Randy Orton
Weird match. The idea was good – Sheamus works the arm, Orton works the leg. The execution though, I don’t know. The Christian/Zeke match had this great form, where Zeke was on top and Christian would need bursts of energy to stay alive. This had Sheamus working the arm, Orton kicking the leg, working the leg, Sheamus hitting the arm, working the arm, etc. The selling was fine (I liked Sheamus’ limp a lot), and there were cool moments like Orton first going to the leg with a chopblock that looked botched in a good way (Sheamus bent crazy and Orton’s arm being already hurt added to it). Still, like, the limb damage on both guys didn’t seem to prevent anything. Sure, they were selling in between, and selling well, but while it looked like they were hurt, it didn’t affect anything they did. Sheamus had no problem running directly into Orton with corner-shoulder-blocks and, God, IDK, something felt off. Honestly my favourite part of the match was the absolute beginning where they collide shoulders and Orton hits a surprise dropkick. More people need to do that. Finish with the borderline split up of Orton/Cody/Other Guy should have been expected (though I didn’t care enough to expect it). Not a bad little match overall. NOT ADDING.

Michelle McCool v. Mickie James
You know I’d seen a bunch of it and heard even more, but I never saw how far they went with the ‘Piggy James’ stuff. Obviously I found the pre-match feud video must-see TV. Oh Lordy! Who will Beth WhatsHerFace side with? Before this instant classic actually starts, McCool says ‘Piggy’ ain’t coming out and Layla then comes out with a fat suit before James attacks her. James then wins the title with a DDT in less than ten seconds and a bunch of other women come out and they all drop cake on LayCool. Riveting. NOT ADDING

The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio
If I’m being 100% honest – and I have no intention of not being 100% honest – I actually didn’t like this as much as Regal/Bourne or McIntyre/Kaval. So don’t be shocked when you see this below the six minute Regal/Bourne. I wanted to put this below Kaval/Drew as well, but that felt too harsh. That aside this rules. Rey being wary of Taker’s bigness is classic Rey wariness ((I had no idea how to properly word that)). He also bumps likes a friggin’ madman for Taker’s over-the-rope throw and that marvellous mid-air punch. Goddamn what a spill. Another spectacular moment where Rey dodges the apron leg drop and Taker clubs him all ‘oh I don’t think so’ and hits it while Rey’s on the bottom rope. Rey doesn’t get much offense here, but when he does get it, it’s pretty memorable. I love how Rey used his kicks to not even keep Taker hurt, but to make sure Taker was occupied so he himself couldn’t get hurt. Then when he’d have an opening, he’d get his chance at a big shot. Great example of that was where Rey was almost in the tombstone position and kept wiggling (seemingly kneeing Taker in the head), then when Taker dropped him Rey kicked him directly in the skull. There was an awkward as shit thingy where Taker had Rey in a powerslam position and kind of, IDK, ‘fell’? He tilted backwards and they tried to make it off like Rey got an offensive attack, but I didn’t see it. Luckily they made up for it with Taker sitting up and Rey sprinting a dropkick in his face all ‘nah ya fuckin’ don’t’. I have to mention that barricade spot somewhere. ~*mention!*~. Taker being OK for a finisher after two 619s seemed like a little much, though it wasn’t something that really, really bothered me. Good match, but it won’t make the final 25, and if early 2013 me is any indication, their SmackDown match is on another level. ADDING.

A Bunch of Guys Doing Whatever.
This piece of rubbish starts with Ziggler v. Bourne, which is a neat little minute full of doohickies and stuff like Bourne driving the double knee on Ziggler while airborne, and Dolph’s stupendous silver DZ vest thingy. Punk comes out and eliminates them both before cutting a promo on how he’ll be the winner and possible saviour, yet not many people will get the privilege of being saved. He gets interrupted by the count, and the man to stop this oh-so heinous villainy of Punk’s is none other than the absolutely useless JTG. Great choice. I guess he was used as some sort of comedic relief so Punk could throw him out quickly and begin his ‘as I was saying….’, because the Great Khali is the next guy out. Naturally Punk doesn’t think he can manage this even more absolutely useless wrestler, so he tries to coax Khali into becoming a straight-edge follower. He then gets whooped by Khali, who gets eliminated by Beth WhatsHerFace, who hurts CM Punk who ate the cat that ate the mouse that ate the spider that – WHY IS PUNK WORKING EVENLY WITH BETH WHATSHERFACE!? So Beth leaves somehow IDR, and Zack Ryder is Punk’s next possible victim (or womanly creature to manhandle him). Punk gets on the mic to say Ryder has potential and then goes ‘nah fuck this guy he’s a goof’ and nails him with the mic. Punk’s alone in the ring again and HHH’s music cuts. Heeeey, so THIS is where the Punk ‘PANCAKES!’ GIF came from. Um, some stuff happens, Drew McIntyre comes out to ridiculously generic music, and some other stuff happens. We get Ted DiBiase Jr…more stuff? HHH isn’t a guy I can rely on to bring too much energy to a match, but at least the crowd were popping for a lot of his shit. John Morrison is next and he completely misses his shitty starship move on McIntyre. Kane and Cody Rhodes are in so we get Rhodes & DiBiase doing the atrocious double-team stomp on Kane. With these three + HHH there’s a whole lot of ‘guys unnecessarily saving each other’ bullshit. I get Rhodes & Ted Jr, but the other two? Really? Next entrant MVP gets attacked by the Miz so he can’t enter the match. The Miz is two spots later (Carlito was in there somewhere) and MVP goes into the ring and eliminates himself along with the Miz. Can’t wait to see that feud. I get excited for the entrance of Matt Hardy only to see he lasts exactly 20 seconds. Fuck you. Michaels is next and he pretty much throws everybody other than HHH out with his dumb looking one-arm throws and back body drops. DX have the match to themselves because they went around killing everybody’s hopes and dreams, so I laughed when Cena comes in next and starts squashing them both. He does the five (ten I guess) knuckle shuffle set-up slam, and pretty much squishes Michaels’ head with Helmsey’s back. Michaels sends HHH out and there’s, uh, Shelton Benjamin in there for what Wikipedia says is 48 seconds. How impressive that he botched like 3 moves in that time. Yoshi Tatsu is the next guy to enter, and Cole calls him ‘the Cardiac Kid’. Matt Striker must have thought to himself “nobody provides ear-cancer for nicknames more than I do, Michael’, and – I shit you not – calls Tatsu, ‘the Poison Fist of the Pacific Rim’. GTFO. The Big Show and Mark Henry are your next two and they have a disappointing exchange before Cena interferes. Henry once again (he tried earlier) attempts to slam the Big Show, this time succeeding! Then Cena randomly out of nowhere tries to lift Henry and fails. Like, literally. Henry slams Show; Cena tries to lift Henry directly after that. Whaaaaat? We get a random Chris Masters appearance, R-Truth getting both Show and Henry out (lmao), Swagger yelling a bunch, Kofi Kingston being Kofi Kingston, and everyone parachuting out of a plane and into a volcano where they save Agent 11287 from the Microsoft Puma Demon. Jericho’s there…..important. Edge’s return-from-surgery…..Yay. Batista……..IDC. Oh good Lord, that’s what this match needed – hammy Michaels acting. God fucking hell he comes off like such a shitty little girl. He finally pisses off after minutes of shitty little girl acting and then we get Edge tugging at his hair, showing us that Michaels is not the only shitty actor up in here. Match ends somewhere near there. This sucked. ^^^^There’s no way anybody read all of that. NOT ADDING OR FOR THAT MATTER EVER WATCHING AGAIN.

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
2.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
3.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
4.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
5.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
6.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
7.	d
8.	d
9.	d
10.	d
11.	d
12.	d
13.	d
14.	d
15.	d
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d


Other contenders:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I actually read that entire Royal Rumble paragraph :lol

It was live from...Atlanta?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I read it all. 

POISON FIST OF THE PACIFIC RIM


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

PGSucks said:


> I actually read that entire Royal Rumble paragraph :lol
> 
> It was live from...Atlanta?


:mark: I'LL TAKE ONE PERSON AS A VICTORY. :mark: EDIT - AND CODY. You count as five people. 

I forgot to ask in the post but do people like that Rumble? Hate it like I did? Was it fun live (I never watched it)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I only really liked Punk's portion, tbhayley. And Great Khali looking like the childlike fool that he truly is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2010 RR sucks monkey balls. Gave it **. One of the worst ever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldberg set out TODAY. omgomgomg


----------



## Kenny (Aug 15, 2004)

thought i read goldust for a second there and got excited


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I feel like I should be more excited for HIAC's card than I am. :/


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ziggler/Sandow on Raw was (Y). Sandow's performance was probably his best.
Was Shield/Daniel Rhodes as good as it fucking looks?

Also, Del Rio/Cena had me in pure shock.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No interest for HIAC right now. Doubt that'll change. Cena back? And against Del Rio? Randomly for the WHC? YAWN. Potentially Punk/Ryback again? Urgh. Bryan Vs Orton AGAIN? Just stop. HBK guest referee? Honestly who cares?

Give me Cody/Goldust Vs THE SHIELD for the tag belts at least.


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

But what about Big Show vs Triple H, Cal? What if Show gets his hand broken next week and has to wear a cast? :side:




Yeah1993 said:


> I forgot to ask in the post but do people like that Rumble? Hate it like I did? Was it fun live (I never watched it)?


It went by stupidly quick. Always the worry with 90 second intervals these days but this one more so than any other in history. Punk is pretty much the only memorable thing from it (Michaels eliminating Triple H was alright though), but apart from that it's just a string of quick and forgettable eliminations. I'm sure there was only 5 or 6 guys who lasted more than five minutes. 

My main annoyances were that Jericho was made to look a complete loser by getting thrown out by Edge with zero offence only 2 minutes after entering. Basically squashed the feud before it even started tbh. And that Cena was the last person to go out. Surely to build Edge as a face you have him in there last with the major heel Batista?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/4 for the ME from last night, not that good, imo


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*** 1/4 means not that good?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Had higher expectations after the Tag match from battleground

OMFG GOLDBERG! I'M SO WET N/H THO!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Triple H Vs CM Punk (No Holds Barred) ~ Night of Champions 2011_










So my two all time favorite performers are going at it (Shout out to BROCK though, he's in my big three as well) and I'm psyched as hell to rewatch this for only the third time now I think? Anyways, a brilliant start with Punk taking HHH while he's doing his second water spit on the apron, pretty much sums the match up right there; chaotic and unpredictable. This straight up IS an attitude era main event brawl, as HHH and Punk take it through the crowd, on the floor, through the announce table, etc while beating each other up extensively. HHH has a few really nice irish whips into the barricade on Punk which I think will go unnoticed on a first watch, with HHH's in-ring shape being an underlying theme here. The punching in this match could be a little better, but Punk's leg strikes are on point and are the right idea in this kind of match anyways. The brawl through the crowd was the lowlight of the match for me as I think it was unecessary but whatever. 

ELBOW DROP THROUGH THE ANNOUNCE TABLE. BAM, these two look exhausted as fuck, love how they only introduce a chair to this thing as it keeps the match from becoming compete overkill, until we get mega interference from Miz/Truth/Nash/ACE that blows the match up. Your opinion of all of this interference will ultimately decide for you how much you like this match, which is cool with me because I personally thought all of the carnage was fun as fuck. CM PUNK KICKS OUT OF A PEDIGREE, FUCK YEAH. SLEDGEHAMMER TO NASH. PEDIGREE. HHH WINS AND BURIES.... I mean defeats Punk in this one. Retarded booking to have HHH go over Punk aside, I absolutely love this match and think that it's the funnest thing ever + the bee's knees. If you're a fan of both men I think you won't be disappointed with this, but as marks we'll still hope for a Wrestlemania match or a Summerslam match between the two down the line. It HAS to happen now that we have heel HHH and face Punk, it just HAS to GOD DAMNIT.

So this was really fucking great, not a classic, but an extremely fun and memorable match that was satisfying as a dream match for me.

*~ *** 3/4 ~*​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Take about 3 of those STARS~! off your rating and that's about where I stand on that match . Then take the rest away for how badly HHH MURDERED the Summer of Punk stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF Vengeance 2001*

4 Men. 3 Matches. 2 Titles. 1 Undisputed Champion.


Yey we are opening the PPV with an IN RING PROMO. It was utterly pointless.


*Scotty 2 Hott & Albert Vs Test & Christian*

THE HIP HOP HIPPO!!!

So this match is random as fuck. It's a "bonus" match.

Oh ok, apparently they've had a little "rivalry" on TV. Whatever. 

HORSEFACE TEST.

Nice to see Test and Albert go at it. They never did have a blow off when they split a year ago. 

Test has immunity at this point. Bet Big Show wishes he had that over an IRON CLAD CONTRACT which ain't doing shit for him.

:lmao at Lawler and JR debating over whether or not Albert and Scotty are "fly".

OMG I just noticed the referee! TEDDY LONG!!! I really should have made a record of how many tag matches he's refereed on these PPV's lol.

CHRISTIAN'S WORM!!! Awww, Albert tries to break it up but Christian avoids a kick and Test levels Albert with a big boot!

SCOTTY'S WORM!!! His is successful.

BALDO BOMB~! The fly white guys win.

Fun opener.

*Rating: *1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Edge Vs William Regal - WWF Intercontinental Championship*

:mark: I'm a HUGE fan of the matches between these two. A very underrated series imo. Great promo from Regal before the match.

Reason I'm such a fan of this series is because it actually helps out BOTH men involved. Regal imo never really settled in as far as in ring work in the WWF until this series with Edge. Here he was back to being, well, awesome, and much stiffer than we'd seen from him in a long time (aka his WCW days). These matches seemed to help him rediscover himself.

As for Edge, after winning the KOTR and splitting with Christian, he really didn't come across as a singles guy yet. He worked with Christian straight away and they just didn't have chemistry. Then he worked with Test. So this was Edge's first real opponent who was BOTH good in the ring and had chemistry with him, and that allowed for great matches and for Edge to really adjust imo to singles matches.

KNEE TREMBLER~! Edge takes some really nice STIFF SHOTS in this one, and even he throws out some nasty looking offence here and there too. You GOTTA with Regal though, otherwise he'll just tear you apart.

Some unique spots throughout this match too, same goes for their other 2 PPV matches that follow. SPEAR OFF THE APRON INTO THE STEEL STEPS (Regal moved). Now that was awesome.

BRASS KNUCKS~! Regal hid some in the ring because he knew he'd be checked before the match.

DOUBLE ARM POWERBOMB~! One of my favourite moves from Regal .

Regal gets a little frustrated, so he hits a pair of DOUBLE ARM POWERBOMBS :mark:. And when that doesn't work, he puts on the Brass Knucks... and walks into SPEAR!!! Edge gets the win.

Still holds up . Not as good as their RR match, and it's been too long since I saw their NWO match to know where it stands against that, but that doesn't matter. This is great.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


LITA (FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP) in the hottest referee outfit ever. FAP.


*Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy - Special Guest Referee Lita*

LITA :mark:.

Feud is another of those examples of WWF being morons. At Survivor Series, Jeff had the chance to win the tag titles. Instead he decided to jump off the cage and it cost them the match. Matt is the bad guy for pointing that out. WHAT?

The actual feud wasn't a real HATE~! driven kind of feud. Really was more of a brother vs brother thing where they didn't hate each other but needed to sort shit out, and in wrestling the way to do that is to have a match. Not killing each other's dog level of HATE~! yet lol.

Man, feels like they are just going through the motions here. It's slow and sluggish and dull. Feels like they literally do nothing for the first 5 minutes or so. Then Jeff "hurts" his leg and Matt goes after it and... I just don't care lol. If it wasn't for LITA looking all FAP FAP I'd have probably just skipped this one tbh.

Jeff gets the 3 but Matt's foot was on the ropes. LITA didn't see it.

Not often a referee is the best part of a match.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Dudley Boys Vs The Big Show & Kane - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

So Show and Kane have been teaming up since way back when, huh? Damn, lol.

:lmao at Bubba begging for a tag but D-Von is too scared to get in the ring with Big Show. 

Show and Kane are looking UNSTOPPABLE.

CLOTHESLINE FROM THE TOP ROPE TO THE OUTSIDE!!!

STACY~! Shorts come down and she gets a spanking!!!

Dudley's do a pretty great job of finally taking down Kane and using Show to distract the referee to double team the Big Red Machine. Stuff like that is what helps make them some of the most consistently GOOD performers the entire year for the last 2 years.

Kane accidentally clotheslined Show from the ropes! They argue and those DAMN DUDLEYS try to take advantage, but they are just too big and too strong. Then Show accidentally knocks Kane off the apron, Bubba exposes the turnbuckle, and we get a double flapjack onto the exposed turnbuckle!

Short but solid tag match. Good tag work from the Dudley Boys, great power work from Kane and Show, STACY being all FAP FAP, and a creative finish!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*The Undertaker Vs RVD - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

:mark: HARDCORE TITLE MATCH.

:mark: UNDERTAKER MATCH.

:mark: :mark: UNDERTAKER HARDCORE TITLE MATCH :mark: :mark:.

Undertaker's heel turn was :mark:.

Undertaker cut his hair! Looks like the fucking TERMINATOR coming down to the ring now with the sunglasses and motorbike. He just wants RESPECT and he gots all mine!

RVD has to try and stick and move against BIG EVIL, and use those quick kicks to keep him at bay. Works for about 30 seconds, and then Undertaker uses a kick of his own (BIG BOOT).

MOONSAULT ON THE CONCRETE~! From RVD, obviously. 

:lmao at Undertaker squashing RVD's face under some guard rail.

GOAT sign: "GOOD MORNING".

Fans: "RVD! RVD!"

Undertaker: "RVD GETTING HIS ASS KICKED!"

God I love heel Undertaker.

And of course right after he says that, RVD makes a comeback . CROSSBODY OFF THE BALCONY!

Undertaker is now covered in dust :lmao.

Babyface Undertaker, when getting pinned, would simply kick out. HEEL Undertaker gouges the fucking EYES to escape a pin :lmao.

Sweet Jebus! RVD gets launched face first into part of the staging. Makes on SICK AND NASTY sound.

Last Ride! No! RVD holds on to the stage and fights out of it! Undertaker is kicked backstage, then comes back out and just DECKS RVD in the face with a right hand. If Undertaker went for a cover there I could have bought into a near fall from it tbh. But Undertaker goes for a chair instead!

Van Daminator! No! Undertaker moves and RVD ends up kicking the titan tron! Chair shot!

And now they move closer and closer to the edge of the stage... another Van Daminator attempt... ANOTHER COUNTER! CHOKESLAM OFF THE STAGE! 1...2...3 AND THE UNDERTAKER IS THE NEW HARDCORE CHAMPION!

:mark: This rules. This fucking RULES. I wanna watch all of Undertaker's hardcore title defences now lol.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Trish Stratus Vs Jacqueline - WWF Women's Championship*

Well, first match I'm skipping so far for my 2001 Rambles. Technically skipped the women's match at WM 17 but I did that writeup earlier in the year.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - WWF Championship Match*

Austin turned on the WWF fans by aligning with Vince to win the WWF title at WM earlier in the year. Then he turned on the WWF by joining the Alliance with the sole intention of putting the WWF out of business. Angle was the WWF Hero. Joined the Alliance to fuck them over from the inside. It worked. The WWF won. Next night on Raw, Austin gets cheered by the fans, turning back babyface, while Angle somehow ends up the heel. WHY DO YOU KEEP DOING THIS WWE?

Ok, It's been about a week since I first attempted to watch this match lol. I just couldn't. I got about 5 minutes in and wasn't feeling it and gave up. Been avoiding the shit out of it since then . But I gots ta get it done! That way I can move on and get to other events from 2001 lol. Like Survivor Series and SummerSlam and Backlash :mark:.

These two have been feuding since Invasion when Austin screwed the WWF, gave Angle the Stunner and cost Team WWF the match. 2 PPV matches and a TV match for the title and a TON of good old HATE~! thrown in too. They had some fucking WARS. And now they have the chance to become the first ever Undisputed Champion ever (despite the fact JR and Lawler actually claim there has been an Undisputed champion before :lmao ).

So how do they start the match here? A big crazy wild brawl to continue their HATE~!? No, not really. It comes across more of a "feeling out" segment. Which is odd considering how well they know each other by now.

Instead of trying to kill each other, Austin instead targets the arm of Angle. Which I guess is ok. The winner of this still has another match to go before they can win the title. So taking things easy and not going all out makes sense... but eh, I just don't like it. Would be fine if this was say just the semi-finals of a tournament or something where they were randomly placed against each other... but these guys fucking HATE each other with a passion and have spent half of 2001 trying to tear each other apart!

So what we actually get for the most part is a dull, uninspired brawl with some dull limb work.

Oh look, terrible German Suplexes by Austin. 5 in a row. Thanks for that.

Fuck me I think Angle just botched a low blow. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

One Stunner and Angle is done. Kinda glad because a kick out would have meant this match would continue.

Shit.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Was that a "Rocky sucks" chant I heard? IT WAS! :mark:

These guys have been going at it for a couple of months now, not as long as Austin/Angle, but they have a pretty big RIVALRY going. So again I'd kinda expect them to bring the HATE~! from the start, but they don't do it either. Ok, maybe they wanna take it slow because they have to wrestle again RIGHT AFTER THIS MATCH. Like with Angle/Austin, I wouldn't LIKE them doing that but it would make sense.

LOLMAKESENSE. Nah. They don't bring the HATE~! but they both start running around and flying into each other with clotheslines or arm drags and shit. So no HATE~! AND no trying to save energy at the start? Fuck you both. Especially Rock.

ASK HIM! How about someone ask Jericho to lay off the fucking rest holds. Rock ain't the only one going to sleep here.

Rock Bottom by Jericho through a table. About 5 minutes have happened between that rest hold and the table spot. AND I HAD NOTHING TO FUCKING WRITE ABOUT. Not feeling this one tbh.

Huh, Rock just took HIS OWN FINISH THROUGH A TABLE... and yet he's the first one back on offence. What?

Oh it's ok, Jericho just kills Rock with the BREAKDOWN anyway. Then spends about half an hour setting up a People's Elbow, only for Rock to counter with a Sharpshooter... only for Jericho to reverse the Sharpshooter!!! Ok, that sequence was kinda cool, though Jericho could perhaps have taken less time mocking the People's Elbow. Also, why the fuck does Jericho look like he's escaped DEATH? Rock has taken a ROCK BOTTOM THROUGH A TABLE, A BREAKDOWN AND A SHARPSHOOTER and he's still fucking countering Jericho with roll ups and even a Rock Bottom of his own, all the while Jericho seems like he's taken double that the whole time.

Vince distracts the referee, because Jericho wouldn't be able to kick out of a Rock Bottom followed by 10 years of rest while Rock slowly makes a cover...

People's Elbow, and Rock has a second wind. LOW BLOW. ROCK BOTTOM. JERICHO WINS.

This sucked too. Not as bad as Austin/Angle, definitely not as bad as that, but still, it ain't got nothing on their RR match or their NM match (or at least what I remember of that one... I'll get to it soon).

*Rating: *1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Steve Austin Vs Chris Jericho - WWF Undisputed Championship Match*

Jericho gets the win and straight afterwards, Austin comes down and attacks Jericho. But for some reason the referee doesn't ring the bell yet. No, he waits until Angle decks Austin with a chair first and then Rock hits a Rock Bottom on Jericho. Awesome. 2 slow, dull matches so far in this title tournament thingy and the final match starts with BOTH MEN LAID OUT AND THE REFEREE DOING A COUNT. Seriously? Shoot me now.

"AUSTIN TOOK A POUNDING FROM ANGLE EARLIER" :lmao

Fuck me, these two are showing more HATE~! in this match than the previous 2 matches did. And these guys don't really have any big heated rivalry or anything. They don't like each other, but damn, they trying to kill each other anyway.

:lmao at Austin going for a Stunner ON THE TABLE. :mark: at the bump Jericho takes off the table when Austin counters a Walls attempt! :mark: at the bump Jericho (and Austin) take on the CONCRETE FLOOR (mat has been pulled away) after a suplex.

I never really "get" the "using the ropes of additional leverage" on submission holds. Half the time it looks like it isn't helping at all. The other half can be summed up with Jericho's ARM BAR here. He uses the ropes for leverage (awesome show btw, LEVERAGE. Been watching a bunch of it the last week rather than watching this) and damn, it looks NASTY. Like, break Austin's arm kinda nasty.

Man, how does EARL at his age take some of those BUMPS? He just launched himself out of the ring following a flying forearm from Jericho. He bumps better than a lot of fucking wrestlers.

Ref is down, cue VINCE again, and NICK PATRICK. RIC FLAIR. He takes out Patrick. VINCE PUNCHES FLAIR!!! FLAIR HEAD FIRST INTO THE RING POST! I wonder if Flair bleeds .

Austin spots Vince and kills him.

WALLS OF JERICHO TO JERICHO. Man, how many finishers got STEALED~! during the last 3 matches? 

BOOKER T. He came, he ruined shit, he fucked off. Jericho wins the Undisputed Championship.

I'm actually rather surprised by this match. It wasn't great or anything, and the finish was a little overbooked, but overall this was enjoyable. Certainly better than the previous 2 matches, which is surprising considering both men had just competed in them lol.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cannot believe Cena is back already.........oh wait guess i can. Really fucking random though, a big bang back at the Rumble is what i thought.

I really enjoyed the Raw main event, two really good Rhodes/Shield matches back to back :mark:

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/full-content-the-history-of-wwe-dvd-blu-ray/52159/

Fuck me that looks shit lol


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

CM Punk pipe-bomb > Austin 3:16 speech.

You heard it from WWE itself yo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao that set looks god awful. I'll be downloading the doc and that's it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

As much as I'd kill to have Punk/Cena '13 on DVD, that set looks terrible.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Tragedy in Kansas City? Wow, they're talking about Owen on that. Interesting to see if they pile the blame on Russo. 

Koko vs Yoko from the first Raw? Surely there were better matches that night. 

Lashley/Umaga? :ti


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Shit, that set truly looks awful with the matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its gotta be the worse in terms of match selection shirley, i know repeats are annoying, but its THE FUCKING HISTORY OF THE BLOODY WWE FFS.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

I don't even care, Cena/Punk from February being on the set is :mark:

Doc should be excellent, too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> I don't even care, Cena/Punk from February being on the set is :mark:
> 
> Doc should be excellent, too.


Yeah the doc _should_ be good, i mean its at least 3 hours. I hope the Cena/Punk match makes the Best Of Raw/Smackdown 2013 Set, which if they don't fuck it up, should be good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Best Of Raw/Smackdown 2013?

More like WWE Greatest Rivalries #2: The Shield vs. Team Hell No.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Cannot believe Cena is back already.........oh wait guess i can. Really fucking random though, a big bang back at the Rumble is what i thought.


I don't even think he'll be there. Six months he was meant to be out. Even with his super human healing abilities, this would be one quick return.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ArnoldTricky said:


> I don't even think he'll be there. Six months he was meant to be out. Even with his super human healing abilities, this would be one quick return.


Yeah, even i thought even Cena wouldn't be back that quick, guess we'll see :argh:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Starting my 2003 project tonight, DAT HHH YEAR!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Now that I've finally finished Vengeance 01 I can move on. Doing No Mercy now. Then onto No Way Out, then I got 3 PPV's straight that I'm super excited to watch again :mark:. BACKLASH. SUMMERSLAM. SURVIVOR SERIES.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If they're promoting Cena returning, then he's coming back. He's also making the talk show rounds. I guess we'll be spared the predictable Rumble return for him.


I think they panicked, and are pushing him back early. Not like he'll fight them or anything.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena back early, yet we probably won't see Sheamus until the RR at the earliest . NO FUCKING JUSTICE .

BIG SHOW, TAJIRI AND DUDLEY BOYS ALL IN ONE MATCH. This shall make up for the lack of JUSTICE :mark:. *goes back to NM 01*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Royal Rumble will hopefully be reserved for IT'S A SHAMEFUL THING, LOBSTER HEAD!

RVD/Taker from Vengeance is so fucking good. Did they have any other matches together? Their chemistry there was great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Royal Rumble will hopefully be reserved for IT'S A SHAMEFUL THING, LOBSTER HEAD!
> 
> RVD/Taker from Vengeance is so fucking good. Did they have any other matches together? Their chemistry there was great.


They had a pretty good match on Raw for the Undisputed Title in 2002. That's all I can remember. Might have had a singles during the INVASION still in 01. Fairly certain they had a bunch of tags against each other at least.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I actually wrote a lot about Del Rio v RVD but I lost it and there's no way I'm writing about it again. Long story short it was a solid opener with some good action but also the inevitable contrived/retarded spots RVD likes to do. Pacing could've been better and the finishing stretch lacked drama. All in all it was slightly above average and worth watching if you're a fan of either guy. 

This was glorious:

*Cody Rhodes & Goldust v Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins - Battleground (10/6/13)*
Legit GREAT match. Two great FIP segments, two great hot tags and a fantastic finishing stretch. Can't ask for much more from a tag match but it did have even more in the form of a strong angle to give it meaning, Dusty Rhodes being awesome on the outside, and a hot crowd. Both Cody and Dustin were on fire. Cody had his career babyface performance so far, along with his showing at MitB earlier this year. I always thought he was a decent talent but he's really starting to step his game up and reach the next level. He's the type of guy who's easy to get behind and root for in a match, at least for me. Everything here was well worked and a ton of fun. Cody's moonsault was the bomb.com. Give me that as a desperation high spot leading to a hot tag any day of the week. Goldust following it up with his own top rope move was sweet too and there's never been a better Cross Rhodes in the history of mankind. The crowd went apeshit for that. Super stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Tajiri Claus Vs Bubba Claus - Raw December 02 sometime. I'm assuming. Santa outfits and all lol. Maybe even 01? Yes, 01. Flair is backstage as an owner.

:lmao at Bubba doing a Santa laugh after Bubba Bombing Tajiri.

TAJIRI CLAUS GETS WHIPPED BY BUBBA CLAUS' BELT. THE FUCK AM I WATCHING? :lmao

SANTA'S LITTLE D-VON tries to get involved but TAZZ THE REDBROOK REINDEER gets involved and takes him out. TAJIRI WINS!

Kinda hope there is a normal singles match between them somewhere . But this was fun .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Starting a KOTR project today. It'll take me a while as I have literally NO time to watch stuff and the DVDS I ordered look so awesome that they take precedence. Skipping 1993 right now as I seriously just watched Hart/Perfect 2 days ago and dont feel like writing about it again. The rest of the card par Hart/Bam Bam looks crap so I'm just gonna go in random order. 1996 will be first!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Razor is pretty good . But yeah, outside of the Bret matches, 93 kinda blows. 1994 on the other hand is a TON of fun with a couple of really good matches. Bret/Diesel is great, 123-Kid/Owen is good, 123-Kid/Jarrett is good, and everything outside of the IRS/Mabel and Piper/Lawler match is FUN. I have fond memories of watching the show on DVD a few years ago when I first got it. My back was fucked and I couldn't get out of bed, but by the time the event was over I was feeling all warm and fuzzy inside rather than constant pain .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

All I know is I'm saving 1998 for last :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why? Wouldn't you want to save the best for last? Best match on that show is barely *** for me (Rock/Mankind). And most of the other matches are pure shite .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I thought 1998 was regarded as the best? *looks at card. Oh shit, besides HIAC it looks like crap. 

Rock/Mankind HIAC? pretty sure some guy named the undertaker was in it . and it was better than ***, how about ****. So, best KOTR PPV then? Hope its not 1996 because I'm already watching it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

For some reason I got it confused with the Survivor Series :lmao. But anyway, only the HIAC is worth seeing from that show. Maybe Kane/Austin too but it ain't great.

94 is better. 93 is better. 2000 is better. 2001 is better. 2002 is better (aside from that main event :|).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KOTR 97 was pretty good. Mankind/HHH and HBK/Austin are both underrated and FAAROOQ in the main event


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Heard somebody in another thread say Cena is probably not coming back and its actually gonna be Mysterio vs. ADR


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I usually find Austin/HBK KOTR to be overrated lol . See plenty of ****+ ratings for it. I usually see something like "MUCH better than their WM match" or "what their WM match should have been" etc... as if that somehow justifies high STARS~! . Being better than a pile of utter shite (their WM match) isn't much of an achievement. Solid match but I just don't find it to be special.

5 minutes left of No Mercy 01. Absolutely blasted through this show... right after finishing Vengeance 01 too!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm on a roll today :mark:.










*WWF No Mercy 2001*


*The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Storm & The Hurricane - WCW Tag Team Championship Match*

LITA LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP LITA is at ringside .

IVORY. FAP. HER TITS ARE BEGGING TO ESCAPE HER TOP.

Hurricane & Storm. Can't believe I didn't get that until my Unforgiven ramblings :lmao.

Heyman: "ARE YOU DOUBTING MY SOURCES, JR?"

JR: "WELL... UHH... .... YA."

:lmao

FIST BUMP TAG~!

LITA chant randomly. She's more popular than anyone else in the match lol.

MIGHTY MOLLY~!

SPEAR! SPEAR! SPEAR! FUCK ME THAT WAS A PRETTY (PUN INTENDED) SPEAR BY LITA! GREAT BUMP BY MOLLY TOO. SPEAR! I WANNA SPEAR LITA!

Cool little finishing stretch, Hardy Boys retain. But honestly other than that there isn't much to this one. Like, at all. It's like they didn't do ANYTHING in the middle of the match.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


RVD shows up and Regal (now the Alliance Commissioner) gives him a talking to. RVD is in the main event tonight for the WWF Title... and he's currently the hardcore champion... which means no hardcore title match tonight .

VINCE shows up. Michael Cole puts his jacket on for him. He drops it on the floor first. Vince says he's gonna drop Cole if he drops his jacket again :lmao.


*Test Vs Kane*

I'm oddly looking forward to this match. Certainly more than the other match later tonight between the other half of these teams (Undertaker Vs Booker T. Yes, I'm looking forward to a TEST match more than an Undertaker match. Blame Booker).

PRESS SLAM OVER THE ROPES. Kane press slams Test OVER THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR. :mark:

Fuck me at that ringbell shot to Kane's head. Nick Patrick ignores it :lmao.

This is a pretty solid BIG MAN battle. Nothing on the Kane/Albert matches from earlier in the year, but still good stuff overall with some impressive shit (THAT PRESS SLAM) too.

BIG BOOT~! But it happens on the outside so Test doesn't get the win there.

CHOKESLAM~! But Kane is still hurting from the BIG BOOT to capitalise on it quick enough.

PUMPHANDLE SLAM~! Damn, this is a pretty good finishing stretch. Plenty of great near falls without either of them spamming actual finishers.

A chair comes into play, the referee fucks over Kane and BAM, BIG BOOT! Test gets the win!

:mark: Me likely this matchy.

2 chokeslams to Nick Patrick . And a powerbomb! 

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


THE COACH interviews Austin through Debra.

STACY KEIBLER FAP FAP FAP. She gives Matt Hardy a sneak peak of her lingerie. Lucky bastard.


*Torrie Wilson Vs Stacy Keibler - Lingerie Match*

I KNOW YOU WANT ME~! SUNNY THEME MUSIC~!

FAP.

FAP.

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

FAP FAP.

FAP. FAP. FAP. FAP.

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Christian Vs Edge - Intercontinental Championship Ladder Match*

Urgh. I'll watch this in hopes I like it. But I don't expect to.

Booooring. Boooooring. Boooooring. Boooooring. Outside of CHRISTIAN taking a couple of cool bumps off the ladder, this is BORING. It does, however, feature THE most insane, sickening, nasty, brutal ladder spot in history:












Christian tries a one man conchairto but Edge blocks it. So Edge gets a ladder. Making it 3 in the ring now. Because apparently he needed the other 2 still. He sets the ladder up across the steel chairs and puts Christian on it and I guess he'll climb the ladders (2 for stability) and splash Christian. LOLNO. He climbs the ropes instead. So bringing a 3rd ladder into the ring was pointless. Edge: Dumbfuck.

Fuck me. Both ladders are still set up in the ring. RIGHT UNDER THE BELT. So Christian sets up the third one at a different angle to climb, only to get SPEARED by Edge who comes off the ropes. YEAH, THAT LADDER WASN'T SET UP FOR JUST THAT SPOT...

Conchairto to Christian on top of the ladders (this time having 3 makes sense... about damn time), and Edge wins the IC title back.

DO NOT LIKE. This might be a worse Christian ladder match than the Shelton one. Urgh. These guys HAVE NO CHEMISTRY. Glad we never got a WM match now tbh. Probably would have been shite.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Spike is at WWF New York. He's drinking a beer. I hope they asked for his ID. Some random slut shows up to hit on him. Glad this was shown...


*The Dudley Boys Vs The Big Show & Tajiri - WWF Tag Team Championship Match*

Dudleys? Big Show? TAJIRI? Fap? FAP!

Tajiri and Bubba start things off :mark:.

OMG just found a Tajiri Vs Bubba match from Raw in 02. TOTALLY GONNA WATCH THAT AFTER THIS :mark:.

Tajiri plays the FIP here so we get plenty of him . KICKS~! GREEN MIST~! Poor referee gets it . 

Fuck. Me. That chokeslam on Bubba was incredible. 

RHYNO! GORE! GORE GORE!

KICK TO THE FUCKING HEAD!

I like how the referee doesn't DQ Tajiri.

3-D! And this one is over. FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The Undertaker Vs Booker T*

Urgh. Just fuck off Booker. YOU SUCK. I'd rather watch a Rock match. Or a Chavo Jr match. Hmmm... maybe not. Booker > Chavo Jr at least. Highlight of his career.

Huh, JR was calling Undertaker BOOGER RED already? Thought that was just something he called him during his heel run towards the end of the year. I LEARNDED SOMETHING!

:lmao at JR taking a jab at some of the shitty WCW champs in recent memory.

Like how Undertaker keeps going after the arm and taking the fight to the mat here rather than just straigh up clubbing Booker T to hell. Takes Booker off his game in the early going, something Undertaker realises he needs to do after Kane tasted defeat at the hands of Booker's tag partner Test earlier in the night.

I like how they work in part of the Kane/Test match into this, with Booker grabbing the ring bell to deck Undertaker, just like Test did with Kane, but this match has a WWF official and he ain't standing for that shit! The bell is taken away and Undertaker decides it's time to BRAWL with Booker now.

Undertaker might not have been at the top of his game in 2001, but his PUNCHES are always epic. WWE might have dubbed him in the best striker in history or whatever, but damn, it's kinda hard to put up much of an argument. He's RIGHT UP THERE with anyone. Lawler. Dundee. Bunch of guys I'm forgetting. No doubt I'll get screamed at for forgetting certain people. I'M FUCKING SORRY WE GUYS, OK?

THE MOST ELECTRIFYING MOVE IN SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT TODAY... THE SPINAROONIE!!!

LAST RIDE~!

Very back and forth match, with Booker never really getting in control as the heel, but eh, he's in the ring with THE UNDERTAKER and Booker is a WCW guy... so I get that they didn't want to make Booker look THAT strong against the Dead Man. That being said Booker did a good job any time he was on offence here that a full blown control segment would have been fine. Perhaps this was more of a test for Booker than anything? Vince has been known for putting guys against Undertaker to "test" them, especially the WCW guys around this time.

Anyway, good match. Enjoyed it more than I thought I would. My dislike for Booker tends to prevent me from liking anything he does, even against Undertaker (I have horrible memories of their JD 04 match lol). But he was good here. Undertaker was good. Match was good. Good good.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - WCW Championship Match*

Can Jericho win THE BIG ONE? Yeah, probably.

I do find it funny that during a time of WWF VS WCW (and ECW...), they still did a bunch of WWF VS WWF matches. Shows how crappy the talent in the ALLIANCE was outside of a few key people. Bit of a shame tbh. We could have gotten Rock Vs DDP or something instead, but they decided that DDP can fuck off and buried the shit out of him .

"I LIKE THEM, STEPH!" sign in the crowd. Can I assume this means her boob job? :lmao

These guys have some issues they need to work out, along with the fact Jericho is DESPERATE to win THE BIG ONE. That somewhat simple story works nicely into the match with Jericho trying to do anything and everything to win.

Love the commentary for this one too. Heyman and JR really help build up how HUGE this match is, with the WCW title lineage going all the way back to the first ever world champion in 1904(?), and how significant it is that this match is taking place in St Louis, where some of the biggest legends in the business have wrestled for, won, and lost THIS very title over the years. Jericho wants to win THE BIG ONE and THE BIG ONE is being put over as the fucking MONSTROUS ONE. I love things like that. Hey Michael Cole, commentary CAN add to a match. You useless cunt.

Rock hits perhaps the GOAT catapult on Jericho. He holds him up off the ground (like setting up a GIANT SWING~!) for a few seconds before falling back to launch Jericho into the corner. Looks less fakey and shit that normal.

Rock Bottom + Lionsault is an INCREDIBLE false finish. I mean DAMN. How did Jericho not win THE BIG ONE right there? 

Rock ends up really taking the fight to Jericho and damn, I kinda wish I'd watched this BEFORE Vengeance now lol, because the finishing stretch of that match looks to be a SWEEET call back to part of this match . Table spot, People's Elbow countered into a submission, other stuff no doubt.

STEPHANIE FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP. Rock gives her a Rock Bottom. WHAT A CUNT. FUCKING WOMEN BEATER. I'LL SAVE YOU STEPHANIE!

She brought a chair with her, and Jericho thinks nothing of hitting the Breakdown on it, sending Rock's skull into the chair! 1...2...3 and Jericho wins THE BIG ONE! Finish plays perfectly into the story of Jericho being willing to do ANYTHING to win. STEPHANIE looks hot.

Great match.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle Vs RVD - WWF Championship Match*

SUPLEX! SUPLEX! SUPLEX! Angle wastes no time suplexing the shit out of everyone. RVD and Austin don't know if they can trust each other, and Angle just doesn't care. He's gonna kill everyone.

Austin decides he doesn't wanna wait and goes after RVD before RVD can turn on him. EVERY MAN FOR THEMSELVES~!

Glad that they had Austin do that straight away. Takes away the bullshit "working together then turning on each other" crap we tend to get. Survivor Series 09 main event does that too, only better .

Austin is a man POSSESSED here. He just doesn't seem to stop. He knows this is HIS match to lose so he goes after both men and tries to keep himself in the match as often as possible so he has a better chance of preventing someone else from winning HIS title.

Holy shit ANGLE HIT THE MOONSAULT. And didn't break anyone's arm! 

Vince decks Austin with a chair. RVD tries to take advantage as they've been teasing RVD going to the WWF. Angle breaks up the count, fucking DESTROYS RVD, then Shane O'Mac shows up, takes out Angle (then gets taken out by Vince lol), and Austin gets the pin on RVD.

So this one is fast paced and high impact and all that shit... and that's about it. It's OK and all, better than a certain other triple threat Austin was involved in on PPV this year... but it's just a SPOTTY match with little in the way of real substance aside from Austin being obsessed with retaining the title.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10.5*​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Nice review Cal, I personally would have the ME up to *** but besides that I pretty much agree with you.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I really dig that triple threat, it's fun. Whole PPV is fun, Kane vs. Test was shockingly great last time I watched it, I might go a whole half a star above Cal's rating ***1/2..I'm feeling dangerous though. 

I'm watching the Matt Striker RF shoot interview, and I laughed pretty damn hard at the pedophile joke Striker told about pen-pals, right to Rob's (who I assume does the interview) face.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It's a shame that the Angle vs. Austin matches after Unforgiven all seemed to get progressively worse. I really didn't like the Vengeance match. 

I'm sad that they never got to work with each other after that  Austin was one of Angle's best opponents aside from Undertaker and HBK (I LOVE those matches and don't care what anyone thinks. :usangle :kurt)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I've always said the Angle/Austin feud should have culminated at Mania 18. The wasted potential at that Wrestlemania is insane.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle and Austin just seemed to lose it right after Unforgiven. Wouldn't have wanted a WM match between the two tbh.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I definitely agree as I loved that feud, and I will also take to my grave the belief that ANGLE SHOULD HAVE STAYED FACE. He was on fire in late 2001 before his stupid heel turn(s). :angle2


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rewatched the Power Trip/BOD tag match from Backlash 2001. Got better on the re-watch. ****.

Taker hitting Steph with the big boot :bosh5


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> I definitely agree as I loved that feud, and I will also take to my grave the belief that ANGLE SHOULD HAVE STAYED FACE. He was on fire in late 2001 before his stupid heel turn(s). :angle2


The gospel freaking truth. WWE should be charged with a felony for the way they mishandled Angle in 2001-2002. Just go back and watch the baby face reaction and terrific work he put in at Summerslam, then ask yourself how the fuck WWE could screw something like that up. It's beyond reason.

Great reviews Cal, I was gonna say you underrated the Rocky vs Jericho match at Vengeance a bit, as I thought it was definitely superior to the Jericho vs Austin match, but since you didn't see No Mercy first I'll give you a pass 

Otherwise I'm in solid agreement with your ratings, can't wait til you get to Backlash :mark: Always loved that PPV, so happy they put that awesome tag on the Haitch set, and please, you seem to be pretty good with the gifs, if you could PLEASE make a gif of the face Regal makes after having his face land in the Duchess's lap, you will be my hero for forever. So classic. ***** face, Heyman is jealous of Regals facial expressions in that match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Battleground (10/6/13)*
Mixed bag. Thought the first half was mediocre and uninspiring. Well executed as is always going to be the case with these two but not engaging at all. Felt like they were just going through the motions, which is how I've felt about most of their matches together. The second half on the other hand was very good. I don't know if they'll be able to put it all together from bell to bell and give us something great at Hell in a Cell but some of what they did here was pretty encouraging. Orton though... he NEEDS to produce more. He's supposed to be aggressive and dangerous and all that Viper shit. It's not there in his performances. When they up the pace and go back and forth he looks good but when they slow it down and the onus is on him to carry the match with some character work or an interesting/aggressive control segment it's just dull as fuck. Solid match. Not gonna lie, marked for Big Show fucking shit up.



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Rewatched the Power Trip/BOD tag match from Backlash 2001. Got better on the re-watch. ****.
> 
> Taker hitting Steph with the big boot :bosh5


That's one of the matches I'm most looking forward to watching on the DVD. Can't remember it at all.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

WWE just uploaded a fuck ton of full-length matches on YouTube. I might give Michaels vs. Benjamin from the Gold Rush Tournament another watch because I've only seen it twice, and I thought it was great both times. Now, if they could just get that damn WWE Network running :side:

Although I'm a fair bit more excited for HIAC than I was for NoC and Battleground, I'm very interested in seeing what Bryan does for the last two PPVs of the year, which should give us a feel of what he's going to end up doing at Mania. And we should be getting Bryan's first great Mania match :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> *Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Battleground (10/6/13)*
> Mixed bag. Thought the first half was mediocre and uninspiring. Well executed as is always going to be the case with these two but not engaging at all. Felt like they were just going through the motions, which is how I've felt about most of their matches together. The second half on the other hand was very good. I don't know if they'll be able to put it all together from bell to bell and give us something great at Hell in a Cell but some of what they did here was pretty encouraging.* Orton though... he NEEDS to produce more. He's supposed to be aggressive and dangerous and all that Viper shit. It's not there in his performances. When they up the pace and go back and forth he looks good but when they slow it down and the onus is on him to carry the match with some character work or an interesting/aggressive control segment it's just dull as fuck.* Solid match. Not gonna lie, marked for Big Show fucking shit up.


agreed

tbh I don't think he know what he wants to do, is he 2009 viper Orton ? or is he the same face we have seen for the past 2 yrs, I think he is confused on how he should hone his character into the matches

I actually thought the match was decent


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Ownage, did you share a write-up on the Rhodes/Shield tag from Battleground? Interested in reading that.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Orton sucks. It's the same crap from him every single time. The guy desperately needs a character overhaul. His promos suck, his matches are boring, everything about him is bland.

It's quite sad to see how far he has fallen from an overall standpoint compared to what he was in 04 - 06. You would think a guy like him who has been with the company for over a decade like he has would be a seasoned veteran by now but nope

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Ownage, did you share a write-up on the Rhodes/Shield tag from Battleground? Interested in reading that.






Saint Dick said:


> I actually wrote a lot about Del Rio v RVD but I lost it and there's no way I'm writing about it again. Long story short it was a solid opener with some good action but also the inevitable contrived/retarded spots RVD likes to do. Pacing could've been better and the finishing stretch lacked drama. All in all it was slightly above average and worth watching if you're a fan of either guy.
> 
> This was glorious:
> 
> ...


I'm right on board with the peeps who loved it. Might be a top 10 match for me this year. Definitely top 15.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I'm amped to watch this now. Thanks.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I want WWE network to happen so bad. I would definitely pay $200 a year to get all but the big 4 for free, plus whatever original content/Old PPV replays they put on there.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Any thoughts on Jericho vs Batista from Cyber Sunday? Never seen it, looks intriguing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

^if it's the Batista/Jericho match I'm thinking of then it's good.

*Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Justin Gabriel, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Rob Van Dam, Zach Ryder, The Prime Time Players & The Usos v The Shield - Raw (9/23/13)*
Such a fun match. Perfectly booked. ROMAN FUCKIN REIGNS! All of The Shield looked great here but damn, Reigns is the fucking man. Loved the three Spears in quick succession squashing some jobbers. BEAST. The showdown with Titus was bossy and got a real big response from the crowd. His elimination was brilliant too. That's how you make a guy look absolutely unstoppable then have the faces conquer him. Commentators said that was the first time Reigns has been pinned in WWE. Is that true? Either way, that was a satisfying payoff for the good guys in the context of the overarching program and a big moment in the match itself. Ambrose dispensing of RVD and Kofi was beautiful to watch. Fuck Van Dam and Kingston. I don't know why the referee would allow a 4 on 1 attack on Rollins there at the end but whatever, I can look pass that. This was a great example of taking the storyline they've been telling on TV, making the audience care, and executing a satisfying payoff in the ring. Two thumbs up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Think I'm gonna get started on NWO 01. Get myself through that PPV of Overratedness and it's onto BL, SS and SS :mark:.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Updated top 20:

1. Brock Lesnar v CM Punk - Summerslam (8/18/13)
2. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
3. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (8/21/13)
4. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
5. John Cena v Daniel Bryan - Summerslam (8/18/13)
6. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
7. Cody Rhodes & Goldust v Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins - Battleground (10/6/13)
8. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
9. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
10. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
11. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
12. Antonio Cesaro v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (7/10/13)
13. Jack Swagger v Sami Zayn - NXT (9/5/13)
14. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (6/12/13)
15. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
16. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
17. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton v The Shield - Smackdown (6/14/13)
18. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
19. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)
20. Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Justin Gabriel, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Rob Van Dam, Zach Ryder, The Prime Time Players & The Usos v The Shield - Raw (9/23/13)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> ^if it's the Batista/Jericho match I'm thinking of then it's good.
> 
> *Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Justin Gabriel, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Rob Van Dam, Zach Ryder, The Prime Time Players & The Usos v The Shield - Raw (9/23/13)*
> Such a fun match. Perfectly booked. ROMAN FUCKIN REIGNS! All of The Shield looked great here but damn, Reigns is the fucking man. Loved the three Spears in quick succession squashing some jobbers. BEAST. The showdown with Titus was bossy and got a real big response from the crowd. His elimination was brilliant too. That's how you make a guy look absolutely unstoppable then have the faces conquer him. Commentators said that was the first time Reigns has been pinned in WWE. Is that true? Either way, that was a satisfying payoff for the good guys in the context of the overarching program and a big moment in the match itself. Ambrose dispensing of RVD and Kofi was beautiful to watch. Fuck Van Dam and Kingston. I don't know why the referee would allow a 4 on 1 attack on Rollins there at the end but whatever, I can look pass that. This was a great example of taking the storyline they've been telling on TV, making the audience care, and executing a satisfying payoff in the ring. Two thumbs up.


Agreed with all of this. REIGNS' booking in this match reminds me of the days when everyone would gang up and hit their finishers on Kane to take him out of an Elimination Chamber match. Perfect booking here, and all SHIELD members looked great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Updated top 20:
> 
> 1. Brock Lesnar v CM Punk - Summerslam (8/18/13)
> 2. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
> ...


#1-4 iirc are the same as me, and then the rest is completely different 

loved that 11 vs. 3 elimination tag


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Agreed with all of this. REIGNS' booking in this match reminds me of the days when everyone would gang up and hit their finishers on Kane to take him out of an Elimination Chamber match. Perfect booking here, and all SHIELD members looked great.


I'm excited to see if you love the Rhodes/Shield match as much as I did. I felt unsure of myself putting it above the 5/20 and 5/27 tags on my list. Then I said fuck it, that shit ruled.



redskins25 said:


> #1-4 iirc are the same as me, and then the rest is completely different
> 
> loved that 11 vs. 3 elimination tag


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I'll try to watch the tag from Battleground tonight and share my thoughts (although you're likely the only one who will care ).


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Rhodes/Shield is the best 2 on 2 tag match in a long, long time


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey cal can you post the Cal scale one more time?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Alim said:


> Rhodes/Shield is the best 2 on 2 tag match in a long, long time


I'm in agreement. Best since Cena/HBK v Batista/Taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Hey cal can you post the Cal scale one more time?


The Cal Scale

NO = -1
DUD-* = 0
*1/4-** = 0.5
**1/4-**3/4 = 1
***-***1/4 = 2
***1/2 = 3
***3/4 = 4
**** = 5
****1/4 = 6
****1/2 = 7
****3/4 = 8
***** = 9


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thanks


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

That Shield/Rhodes match was something special. I was lucky enough to be in the arena for that. 

If I'm lucky I get a special moment at a WWE PPV. There are very few shows that have those special moments and most of them only have one. Undertaker kicking out of the SCM/Pedigree combo, the ending to Trips/Taker WM 27, Ziggler cashing in, Danielson's last ROH match, Eddie Edwards winning the ROH Championship, Eddie Kingston winning the Chikara Grand Championship Steen turning on Generico, seeing the Rock's first match back at MSG Steen vs. Generico 1 year later, and Hogan vs. Sting at BFG. Honestly that match makes the list of those great moments. Now it's pretty low on my list of favorite moments but it makes the list and I've been to a ton of live wrestling events (I honestly think I might be around the 100 mark) so to me that means something.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I kinda hate you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Alim said:


> Rhodes/Shield is the best 2 on 2 tag match in a long, long time


Shield vs Hell No wasn't THAT long ago..


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

you know that tag is the only highly praised match this year I havent seen for some reason

btw having Cody in your avatar is fitting


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You gots to watch it asap, man. Brilliant stuff.

Cody Rhodes. Myself. It's kismet for fandom.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Callamus said:


> I kinda hate you.


I'm just in a really good location to see wrestling. I'm around Albany NY and I'm within a reasonable distance to a lot of big cities where WWE will run PPVs. 

Also I went to college in Philadelphia and for first year I was there I don't think there was a better city to see indy wrestling shows in. I think I saw double digit wrestling shows in November and December of 2011 alone. 

Also I was willing to spend a lot of money to see Wrestlemania 3 years in a row and go to all the indy shows before each event.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Still kinda hate you.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Is the Battleground PPV on youtube or dailymotion? Can't locate on youtube.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

EDIT - @Cody. I think you should have Cody in you avatar and your brother (hopefully named Dustin) should have Goldust. 

Watched more 2010! The moment none of you have been waiting for.

Kane v. Chris Masters (SmackDown 9/24/10)
Oh boy I remember this one. This was only a couple of months after I starting getting on the ‘OK, Masters IS fucking great’ train, and my love for Kane was long gone, so I was amped to see Chris get a shot on SD more than anything else. I have memories of this being a hot sprint, and honestly it isn’t that at all. It goes around the same length as I remember but it’s slower and less heated than I had it in my head. Still a bunch of fun. I thought it opened kind of weird with Kane working headlocks. Masters is a big guy, but it feels like the even bigger and demonic World Champion should be in definite control. Kane was doing the ‘getting ready to tie up equally’ stuff and went to a headlock. Felt out of place. Kane eventually gets to working Masters’ leg on and off, and Masters’ selling is pretty much perfect. I say ‘on and off’ because Kane’s focus wasn’t *all* on that leg; it was jut something he could use to keep Masters grounded. Gotta love a Chris Masters sell. Few really cool moments like when he gets up to the middle rope and only uses one leg, selling the wheel then eating an uppercut while leaning backwards in this totally badass way, and the multiple shots in the corner (Microsoft Word thinks this is a “Fragment (Consider Revising)” and I agree but I’m not putting any effort in to word it better). Masters also manages to sell the leg while selling whatever other attack he was hit with more prominently. It’s a little hard to explain, but I’ll use the chokeslam – Kane hits Masters with the chokeslam and gets ready for the tombstone, so Masters has to get up. While getting up, he’s selling his leg, but the main focus on selling is the pain in his back from the chokeslam. Like he knows he has to sell the chokeslam like hell, but he’s not ignoring what Kane did to the leg. I dare you to CTRL+F “sell” on this paragraph. I am randomly noting that apparently the genius Matt Striker thinks a masochist is someone who takes pain in others’ suffering. No, I don’t, Striker. NOT ADDING.

Daniel Bryan v. Michael Tarver (Raw 8/16/10)
Heeeeeeey I remember this one too. This was the night after SummerSlam and Wade Barrett was kicking anybody out of the Nexus who lost their match to a WWE guy on this Raw. This was more of a sprint and only got two minutes, but it was a good two minutes. Tarver has really good body blows and Danielson jumps for each one. He fires back at Tarver and hits his running knee before winding up in the corner kicking the shit out of Tarver. I was wondering how Tarver was still in the Nexus after this (I remember only Darren Young being kicked out that night), and then the Miz distracts Bryan for the roll up. NOT ADDING.

Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
I remembered Masters/Kane, I remembered Bryan/Tarver, so I decided what the fuck, I’ll watch a match I literally cannot NOT think of when I think ‘WWE in 2010’. Before starting this list I honestly had this pegged as a middle-tier #1 contender. And, no shock, it’s still one hell of a match. Rey gets a bunch of offense in early and Punk is great selling his leg, hobbling every time he stands up (especially cool after stuff like his own leg-scissor where he’s putting pressure on himself), bending when Rey kicks him, and I thought it was badass how he made sure to keep the leg near the back when they had a collar/elbow tie. Standard Awesome Rey Shit where he gets his flurries and reverses most of what his opponent does, may favourite being when he rolled to stop himself from bumping heavy on an outside throw. This being Standard Awesome Rey Shit (S.A.R.S?), Punk relied on keeping Rey within his reach, but what really gets him the match, is, of course, that goddamn barricade bump. No kidding, if I think ‘WWE in 2010’ I think of that bump. Just the perfect equalizer; Punk was tired on the outside, Gallows and Bald Whatsherface make their presence known and WHAMMO, Rey is suddenly crippled. I’m not really fond of Punk offensively, especially if he’s a face (and he was heel here, no shit), but every major thing he did in this match looked brutal and ridiculous. Post-barricade bump there’s a bunch of totally great and nasty stuff that I don’t remember – the steel post baseball slide dropkick, the outside clothesline, and a cut off to Rey offense that was this really violent looking back drop on Punk’s knee. It helps that Rey is willing to Mick Foley each one and just throw his weight into anything. Super touch of selling when he's moving his fingers around, and when he was getting back on offense he was fatigued, seeming barely up to it. Gallows and Baldy get their moments and Rey makes his great comeback and this match is great NO SHIT. I’m honestly almost 100% certain it won’t be #1, but it is for now. ADDING


Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
3.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
4.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
5.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
6.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
7.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
8.	d
9.	d
10.	d
11.	d
12.	d
13.	d
14.	d
15.	d
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d


Other contenders:



Will try to watch Elimination Chamber today.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Can't really blame you. 

I have heard that the indy scene by you is getting better though. Actually I have no idea where you are. I googled "Glasgorrow" to make sure I didn't recommend an indy company nowhere near you and the only results was a link to your profile on this site.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TaylorFitz said:


> Can't really blame you.
> 
> I have heard that the indy scene by you is getting better though. Actually I have no idea where you are. I googled "Glasgorrow" to make sure I didn't recommend an indy company nowhere near you and the only results was a link to your profile on this site.


:lmao

You have no idea how funny that is. Or even WHY it's so funny.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Watched the Rhodes/Shield tag today and it was great. I actually had some mark out moments. ***3/4 and I wouldn't argue with ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT - @Cody. I think you should have Cody in you avatar and your brother (hopefully named Dustin) should have Goldust.


I'll pitch it. Although we've usually gone the route of "Cody Rhodes" & "Tyler Black" b/c his name is Tyler and stuff. Since that was half of the match on Sunday, that can kind of work too I'd say. 

Wondering if you'll like McIntyre vs Kane from Chamber. Possibly. Maybe not "adding" level for your list, but you could get behind it. Drew and all. Only other match worth seeing is the World Championship chamber. WWE Championship one is bleh except for some stuff Sheamus does.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

wish there was a popular wrestler named Greg 

TLK I''ll pm you a link to the ppv if you still need it ?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> wish there was a popular wrestler named Greg
> 
> TLK I''ll pm you a link to the ppv if you still need it ?


Greg Excellent


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE HAMMER

:lmao Tyler trumps me on this day.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao @ both you , valentine was the first to pop up in my head, then helms


watching that shield/ hell no tag now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wow. I didn't ponder Helms. How dare I.

YES.

I really have to watch that match again myself. Just for the sheer fun of it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Somebody give me a random HHH match to watch NOW.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao @ both you , valentine was the first to pop up in my head, then helms
> 
> 
> watching that shield/ hell no tag now


Be Helms! there is no shame in that one & he is popular.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

that one vs Lance Storm.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Somebody give me a random HHH match to watch NOW.


Thinking of something nobody talks about brought me to this:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Somebody give me a random HHH match to watch NOW.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Somebody give me a random HHH match to watch NOW.




HHH vs Steve Austin NWO 01. One of the best matches from one of the GOAT years that deserves more love.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Somebody give me a random HHH match to watch NOW.


Vs Taka.

@HunterHearstHelmsley beat me to it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have to sit through the 3 stages of hell HHH/Austin match soon . Stupid NWO 01.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Callamus said:


> I have to sit through the 3 stages of hell HHH/Austin match soon . Stupid NWO 01.




This match was FUUUUN!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skip it. Who cares. If you hate a lot from that year that I think is good, then when it comes to a match we both are in sync with disliking, you know it probably is worth the skip.

I'm just saying. :hayley2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

taka/HHH would be in my top 10 HHH matches ever and I'm not joking


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> taka/HHH would be in my top 10 HHH matches ever and I'm not joking


:kobe


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's believable.

Taka was a better opponent for Triple H than most main eventers were. TAKA.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Easily one of the coolest parts of the Attitude Era, you legit thought he had a chance to win.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> wish there was a popular wrestler named Greg
> 
> TLK I''ll pm you a link to the ppv if you still need it ?


Plz


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> Skip it. Who cares. If you hate a lot from that year that I think is good, then when it comes to a match we both are in sync with disliking, you know it probably is worth the skip.
> 
> I'm just saying. :hayley2


I am requiring you to post a haley smiley with every post please. Because I keep forgetting who you are :lmao.

Dead serious btw.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Again, quite believable. I'm never changing my name again.

:hayley1


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Primer said:


> That's believable.
> 
> Taka was a better opponent for Triple H than most main eventers were. TAKA.





HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> :kobe


Match is so fun, wish it went alittle longer ( You RARELY hear me say that) and it didnt even need all those APA distractions


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But the APA served its purpose. Gosh, those guys were so much fun.

also, now I will help Cal out with everything I post. THE THEME IS BACK.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Much better, Cody. The sig shall help me too .


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Getting in the mode for HIAC ppv already. Watched HIAC 2010 earlier today. Match ratings: 

John Morrison vs The Miz vs Daniel Bryan submission us title. Solid opener. ***1/2

Randy Orton vs Sheamus HIAC wwe championship. Awesome cell match! Underrated for sure and MOTN. ****

Edge vs Jack Swagger. **1/2

Wade Barrett vs John Cena..... Still can't believe Barrett.kicked out of an FU. ***3/4

Kane vs Undertaker HIAC WHC. ughhh. Love both guys , but this was just boring. Their NOC match was definitely better. **


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

No I know, I loved APA, I just wish we saw more in ring action , rare you see someone like Taka getting that much offense in


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Good idea. Might go back and watch the last four HIAC events, or just the cell matches. Forgot about Barrett/Cena from 2010. The TLC match sticks in my crawl, however.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Updated top 20:
> 
> 1. Brock Lesnar v CM Punk - Summerslam (8/18/13)
> 2. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
> ...



Very, very similar to what I have, just ADR/Ziggler needs to swap places with Punk/Cena on Raw, that is my second favorite match and Payback would be my 6th. Nice to see the same love for Ohno/Regal that I have, that match was absolutely fantastic, would be a serious MotY contender in any year.

I highly doubt anything will top Lesnar-Punk for the remainder of the year. How often is it that you have unbelievable hype heading into a match, where if Punk/Lesnar don't deliver a match worthy of **** or more it will be considered a disappointment, and it some how exceeds all expectations? Punk has faced that 3 times the past 2 years, at MitB vs Cena, at WM vs Taker, and at SS vs Lesnar, and each time he's come through and delivered an all time great match.


I can't wait til Daniel Bryan gets his MitB moment, some say he did it at SS but I honestly think he has a better match in him with Cena.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Primer said:


> I'll pitch it. Although we've usually gone the route of "Cody Rhodes" & "Tyler Black" b/c his name is Tyler and stuff. Since that was half of the match on Sunday, that can kind of work too I'd say.
> 
> Wondering if you'll like McIntyre vs Kane from Chamber. Possibly. Maybe not "adding" level for your list, but you could get behind it. Drew and all. Only other match worth seeing is the World Championship chamber. WWE Championship one is bleh except for some stuff Sheamus does.


I literally have no idea what's on the card of EC other than the two chambers and now Kane/McIntyre. I like that though, I went in to the Rumble not knowing about Orton/Sheamus or MVP/Miz or the Piggy James stuff. Even if I don't like what's on, it's kind of exciting wondering what'll come out next. It's half of the reason WCW B-shows are some of my favourite things to watch (though that's better b/c you literally have no fucking clue who WCW will pull out on their smallest TV shows with their massive roster, so you see Villano IV v. Brian Knobs and start realizing a dream match you never knew you even had is about to happen). 


TAKA Michinoku is literally one of my ten favourite wrestlers of all time and I didn't find the match with HHH to be anything special. Fun but there are matches of that type done thousands of times better like Rude v. Pillman. Should watch it again.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rude/Pillman :mark:

Barry Windham vs. Too Cold Scorpio :mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Scorpio was the fucking man in 93. I prefer it to his 96 which is called his best year (I think, it's talked about more anyway). People should watch it and say it's better than HHH's 2000.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> taka/HHH would be in my top 10 HHH matches ever and I'm not joking


I'm very interested in what that top 10 would look like. The TAKA match is great but nowhere near Hunter's top 10 imo.



Cactus Jack said:


> I can't wait til Daniel Bryan gets his MitB moment, some say he did it at SS but I honestly think he has a better match in him with Cena.


Agreed completely. As good as Cena/Bryan at Summerslam was I'm certain they have a better match in them. HHH/Bryan has the potential to be massive.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> The GOAT has not been on Raw for over 2 years now. The other GOAT departed from us six years ago.
> 
> Savage's last RAW was in 1994 silly.





Brye said:


> I'm liking Orton way more now. Still not cracking my top 5 or anything, but he's become enjoyable.


Agreed. Way better as a heel. 



redskins25 said:


> I would actually pay $60 for the ppv if cena/adr for whc was true, Please Cena win, please, so that title can be elevated
> 
> and then guess who Cena drops it to after a long reign ? :ziggler3 Perfection


Would be sweet. 



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> PUNK VS CENA UNIFICATION MATCH PLZ.


Would be sweet and make a lot of sense. 



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> _Triple H Vs CM Punk (No Holds Barred) ~ Night of Champions 2011_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great review. I love that match as well. 



zep81 said:


> Cannot believe Cena is back already.........oh wait guess i can. Really fucking random though, a big bang back at the Rumble is what i thought.
> 
> I really enjoyed the Raw main event, two really good Rhodes/Shield matches back to back :mark:
> 
> ...


Terrible match listing on that set. Only if Punk/Cena RAW is NOT on the best of raw & smackdown 2013 will I buy this history set. 



The Cynical Miracle said:


> CM Punk pipe-bomb > Austin 3:16 speech.
> 
> You heard it from WWE itself yo.


I don't disagree as far as content. As far as impact. Totally 3:16. 



zep81 said:


> Yeah the doc _should_ be good, i mean its at least 3 hours. I hope the Cena/Punk match makes the Best Of Raw/Smackdown 2013 Set, which if they don't fuck it up, should be good.


Agreed. Has the makings to be by far the best raw/smackdown set. 



Alim said:


> KOTR 97 was pretty good. Mankind/HHH and HBK/Austin are both underrated


Two great matches. 



FluxCapacitor said:


> I've always said the Angle/Austin feud should have culminated at Mania 18. The wasted potential at that Wrestlemania is insane.



:hogan2 against :austin3 should have happened and main evented. 




PGSucks said:


> WWE just uploaded a fuck ton of full-length matches on YouTube. I might give Michaels vs. Benjamin from the Gold Rush Tournament another watch because I've only seen it twice, and I thought it was great both times. Now, if they could just get that damn WWE Network running :side:
> 
> :


Just watched HBK/Benjamin tonight. Still holds up. DAT sweet chin music!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> I'm very interested in what that top 10 would look like. The TAKA match is great but nowhere near Hunter's top 10 imo.


*as I try to make a top 10 HHH off the top of my head*

Ok maybe a exaggeration, but is a top 20


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Good god, that listing for the History of WWE dvd looks ATROCIOUS. Why are there only 5 matches on disc 2? I can't imagine the '88 Rumble being much longer than 30 minutes. I guess Sammartino/Graham goes long as shit (YAWN). Seriously, Austin/Roberts and Yoko/Ware are two of the worst choices you could possibly make to put on a dvd and they've been on like 5 fucking different ones.



redskins25 said:


> Heard somebody in another thread say Cena is probably not coming back and its actually gonna be Mysterio vs. ADR


If they actually do that, I wouldn't mind it personally because I love their matches together but HOLY SHIT people would be outraged. They'd be demanding refunds again.  They shouldn't have the balls to advertise the guy then pull him off, at least let's hope not.



Yeah1993 said:


> Watched more 2010! The moment none of you have been waiting for.


How are you going about doing this? Just watching stuff randomly? Cause I can make recommendations by month or by randomness if necessary.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Somebody give me a random HHH match to watch NOW.


Well I was beaten to it about 6 times, but I'll throw out HHH vs. Kane, CHAIN match from JD '01. Fun stuff.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Angle Unforgiven 2000 is trash. Don't know why that's on his DVD or why I ever thought it was decent.

EDIT: Power Trip/BoD was pretty crummy too. Had elements of a good tag match at times but for the most part it was sloppy and clusterfucky. Meh, not my cup of tea.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watching Survivor Series 1996 to get my little AE project going.

A few minutes into it and it's already funny. lol @ Bradshaw, lol @ Bob Holly, lol @ cutting to a Austin/Bret video package in the middle of a match on PPV.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Might be thinking of the KOTR match? This one was Really Meh





Choke2Death said:


> Watching Survivor Series 1996 to get my little AE project going.
> 
> A few minutes into it and it's already funny. lol @ Bradshaw, lol @ Bob Holly, lol @ cutting to a Austin/Bret video package in the middle of a match on PPV.


Austin/Bret is off the fucking charts while HBK/SID hit damn near awesome levels as far as I'm concerned. SID actually had some pretty decent work at times TBH, don't see how he's any worse than a Kane or anybody. Souled Out with Benoit gets love as well.

BUT YEAH, Austin/Bret is a top 25 WWF/WWE match ever from where I sit, straight up fantastic and to think that they had an even BETTER match at Mania makes my jaw drop.

Austin/Bret ~ ***** 3/4*
Shawn/Sid ~ **** 1/2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So what HHH match did you decide to watch? (if any)

Just got done with the first JOBBER elimination match. ½★ for this one. Even WWE didn't take it seriously because most eliminations happened almost one after another. Plus they make it an even bigger joke by doing the split-screen with "breaking news" regarding the heavily promoted Austin/Bret match.

TAKER'S MUSIC JUST HIT! YES!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I watched HHH/Orton. Thought it was okay, standard heel HHH (which is always great) mixed in with the underrated performance of Orton as a face, typical stuff. Probably go *** 1/2* for it, thought it had it's moments and was solid overall but something felt like it was missing ala most HHH/Orton encounters.

Looking for another HHH match to throw on now.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the High Flyers set tonight. Sting vs Muta is just :mark::mark:

There needs to be more NWA/WCW PPVs on dvd/blu ray. They should have a poll on wwe.com of the top 10 of all time and then release those in a box set. 

I just really want this Japan Supershow from 91 on DVD.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Flair matches in late 2005
Foley FCA in 1997
Rated RKO vs DX NYR 2006
Orton JD 2008
Cena/Edge Backlash 2006


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I watched HHH/Orton. Thought it was okay, standard heel HHH (which is always great) mixed in with the underrated performance of Orton as a face, typical stuff. Probably go *** 1/2* for it, thought it had it's moments and was solid overall but something felt like it was missing ala most HHH/Orton encounters.
> 
> Looking for another HHH match to throw on now.


Triple H vs. Owen Hart vs. Goldust for the Intercontinental title - RAW Is WAR 6/23/97


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Triple H Vs The Great Khali (WWE CHampionship) ~ Summerslam 2008_










Yeah so out of all the HHH matches I could have chosen to pick, I chose this one. I wanted to see "HHH VS MONSTER HEEL" and what kind of formula he would break out, and I'm actually really fucking impressed with how HHH handled it. It seemed as if every single move in the match meant something, every power move and hold Khali breaks out feels important and an accessory to the story, HHH sells for Khali like a champ so when HHH finally gets an opening it feels satisfying as ever.

At a really stacked show with Cena/Batista, JBL/Punk, & Edge/Taker, I thought HHH was honestly the MVP of the show for his performance on this night. He just goes out and bumps like a champion for Khali, putting together quite honestly the best match of Khali's career for him, even better than the Cena Judgment Day encounter. EVERYTHING FEELS IMPORTANT, it's so weird. I mentioned HHH as an underrated resilient face when I reviewed the 2008 Henry match a while back and I stand by it. Super entertaining, and you're just waiting for HHH to hit that one home run to win the match the entire time. 

Trips can get all the criticism in the world, but he really was a God in this contest. Selling the dangers of the vice grip and putting together a wonderfully woven comeback sequence, he deserves major props for his work here, recommended for all fans of david vs goliath contests and all HHH fans of course.

**** 1/4*
​


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Might re-watch HHH/Khali after reading that review. Wait a second though, Trips had a match with Henry in '08? Date please. 



Lord Flvcko said:


> Triple H vs. Owen Hart vs. Goldust for the Intercontinental title - RAW Is WAR 6/23/97


Hmmm.. this sounds interesting. Gonna watch more of the HHH DVD tonight, probably the Raw match against RVD because I don't think I've ever seen it, but I definitely need to track that bad boy down when I get a chance. I'm all for some Goldust. How long does the match go?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Henry wrestled twice in June 2008, both on Raw and Smackdown.

Trips/RVD from June 2003 is pretty good. Has some Evolution fuckery, but I enjoyed it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

A Goldust documentary set would be awesome.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

June 23rd, 2008 for Henry/HHH .

There's a Last Man Standing match against Big Show that aired on the first Smackdown of 2009 that I also ADORE. Don't sleep on HHH as a great face in the WWE face Vs monster department that they seem to love so much. Quality against Henry/Khali/Big Show, & the rest of the big men he was paired against ala UMAGA. Talk about underrated, sheesh.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm sure it happened but Im having a hard time remembering a HHH/Eddie G match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Trips/Henry wrestled twice in June 2008, both on Raw and Smackdown.
> 
> Trips/RVD from June 2003 is pretty good. Has some Evolution fuckery, but I enjoyed it.


How are the Henry matches? Trips was on top of his game in '08 so I imagine they're pretty bossy.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH/Eddie happened on the 2004 draft show & it was okay. They were just going through the motions though, both men would ultimately go on to have career years in the same year though so it's all good. Benjamin matches came soon after and delivered some slices of heaven.

HHH/Henry was pretty great. Again, they revolve around HHH hitting that big pedigree at the end of the match. I don't think he's on CENA levels of being the FIP against a monster heel, but Haitch can always hold his own. Main event star he is.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> June 23rd, 2008 for Henry/HHH .
> 
> There's a Last Man Standing match against Big Show that aired on the first Smackdown of 2009 that I also ADORE. Don't sleep on HHH as a great face in the WWE face Vs monster department that they seem to love so much. Quality against Henry/Khali/Big Show, & the rest of the big men he was paired against ala UMAGA. Talk about underrated, sheesh.


I'll definitely be checking that out. HHH/Show LMS is good indeed. They always worked well together. Really hoping we get to see the 2013 version at Hell in a Cell.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Eddie/HHH also had a super short match at some point in 2000. Eddie vs HHH, Taker and HBK are some great matches we never got the chance to see properly. 

Just got done with the Owen Hart, Bulldog & company elimination tag. This one was a bit better than the first one. Next is ROCKY MAIVIA's first appearance on TV with a soft spoken interview. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

_Triple H Vs The Big Show Vs Rob Van Dam ~ RAW 2/20/2006_

Winner goes to Wrestlemania (& speaking of HHH Vs RVD/Big Show) here as Big Show dominates from the get go. We're right in the thick of things with the King of Kings gimmick as HHH is straight up ballin' as the heel in this match, letting RVD and Big Show dismantle each other while being sneaky all around, what a fucker HHH really is. The teamwork on Show is fantastic and the individual work of all three guys is on a really good level. It's weird because RVD/Big Show/HHH is a weird combo of styles but they seem to mesh well enough to make this work.

This was a really good match with tons of stuff on the excitement end, a really good performance by HHH (WHO IS GOING TO WRESTLEMANIA BAH GAWD in one of my favorite matches ever), and the HHH Vs Big Show chemistry gets another feather in its cap.

Early 2006, HHH was on his A Game once again.

*****

NEXT UP:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's a solid match and kind of underrated imo. Far from the best HHH/Orton match and also far from the worst.

---------

Finished Undertaker vs Mankind. Will watch the rest tomorrow since I gotta get some sleep. None of the matches have been very good but it's been fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I request a review of HHH/Rock I Quit match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> How are you going about doing this? Just watching stuff randomly? Cause I can make recommendations by month or by randomness if necessary.


Sort of. I do have a list of stuff to watch, but I'm watching every PPV in full and if I find something I think looks cool on paper then I watch it.



Saint Dick said:


> How are the Henry matches? Trips was on top of his game in '08 so I imagine they're pretty bossy.


Had no idea there were two matches. 6/23/08 (the draft show IIRC) is a super Henry match:



> HHH v. Mark Henry (Raw 6/23/08)
> HENRY! He comes out all smiles, bowing and laughing. Completely fucking awesome entrance. Completely fucking awesome Henry showing. Henry rules. He has some of the best facial expressions in recent wrestling history; I love the ones during his trash talking. And yeah, his trash talking rules too. Henry rules. Trip fires a DX-crotch chop at him and after some opening shit Henry fires one right back him. Henry rules? Yeah, Henry rules. Henry knocks HHH over after a shoulder tackle competition thingy and struts for a second like 'yeah, that happened'. Henry rules. This was Henry getting to work over Trip (which kinda ruled), and then HHH having a 'Can He Knock Him Down?' comeback. Trip isn't a very good comeback guy, but he'd use bigger and better offense the more Henry would wobble. Until he tried an Irish whip which Henry countered. Trip countered that into his Nobody Hits a Back-Body-Drop on Me Knee and after a jumping knee Henry finally goes down. It was bizarrely done, too. On impact it looked like there was almost no way Henry would fall over from that, but then he does in this oddly convincing way. I found myself questioning whether or not he actually meant to fall down at that point. Probably done purposely because Henry rules. Kind of a shitty moment where Henry walks into a big boot by HHH instead of running, but wha/ev. 2008 is a year where people say HHH did some of his best work, but it seemed like Henry was very clearly leading this one.


(I'm a Mark Henry guy)


-----

Got one more match of EC 2010 left before I post a post on it.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm a Mark Henry guy, hard not to be actually when the guy was so good in 2003, 2006, 2008, 2011-present, etc.

They gave HHH the company formula in 2008 when Cena wasn't winning as many matches as he was in previous years and it worked out fantastically besides his horrible Kozlov stuff which is some of his absolute SHITTIEST SHIT.

HHH/Orton is solid enough I think. HHH works the leg of Orton, it's okay but it gets kind of dull after a while, HHH blades for no apparent reason on a ring post shot ala HAMMY MICHAELS in 2004/2005ish. Interference galore is key, as well as HHH gaining massive amounts of heat for his slow, methodical offense. Honestly reminiscent of alot of Harley Race that I've seen in this one, with a slow methodical offense, even if HHH's main guy is Flair. THE BURY JOB ON ORTON DOE. This was too long and it really hurts the match, but the performances were good enough to keep it in "decent" territory. This was the beginning of one of the worst main event chemistries ever, and it shouldn't have happened so early as they nearly killed Orton here.

The King of Kings back on top again. **** for the match and no higher or less, thought it was ALL GAME too despite Orton being great at this time period.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> BUT YEAH, Austin/Bret [Survivor Series] is a top 25 WWF/WWE match ever from where I sit


Agree. Top three or four match for the both of them.

What did you think about the match, C2D?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Austin/Hart Survivor Series would be in my top ten WWE matches.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'm a Mark Henry guy, hard not to be actually when the guy was so good in 2003, 2006, 2008, 2011-present, etc.
> 
> They gave HHH the company formula in 2008 when Cena wasn't winning as many matches as he was in previous years and it worked out fantastically besides his horrible Kozlov stuff which is some of his absolute SHITTIEST SHIT.


I kind of want to go back on his 2008 because I liked a lot of it while I really, really did not like the rest of it. Pretty sure I didn't like any match with Orton. Don;t really care for any three-ways or four-ways he had. Kozlov match is a no-brainer ball of poo. The Hardy series is obviously very good, and honestly I would love to watch the Khali match again because IDR it. Confession - never seen HHH/Cena NOC. There's also an Edge match on PPV that I will be shocked if I really like.

What was HHH doing on TV in 2008? There's an Undertaker match IIRC and HHH/Jericho/Hardy, but does he have any real MEAT off of PPV?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Is that Orton/HHH match the one where Orton acted like he had a concussion or something? If so, I really liked it. Much more so than their more lauded matches like Last Man Standing, actually. I prefer their older matches like the one you're talking about over their more popular ones. They moved kind of slowly, but I thought they had a nice vibe to them, had clearly defined roles, and I think that I said that it kind of reminded me of a movie. 

I preferred their Royal Rumble match over any of their other matches, and I'm now realizing that the match I'm talking about with the fake concussion was that one. I think I gave it *** 3/4. 

Wrote more of my thoughts about that match here:


Spoiler: spoiler






> 57. Randy Orton vs Triple H – Royal Rumble 2005


Orton's swinging neckbreaker looked cool. It looked balletic. And it's funny, someone mentioned that his RKO's look like ballet and they said it derisively, but to me it's a good thing. It's like poetry in motion, and I prefer that, because it's a beauty to watch, and it stands out from what others are doing. Plus, he's quite versatile, as a lot of the stuff he does is quite impactful. 

Orton always throws some believable looking punches, and I liked him using Triple H for target practice here.

Triple H sold those punches especially well, especially after the second Orton punchfest. 

Orton getting dumped outside the ring mid-RKO was spectacular to watch.

Wow, I see entire sequences from Curt Hennig lifted here by Triple H. Not a bad thing, really, because Triple H says himself that he watched Hennig tapes. This is just the first time that I'm seeing that influence. The whole slapping someone while you have them in the figure four thing is something that Hennig always did.

Never seen an armdrag off the top rope before. Cool.

Triple H's facebuster looked cool. And clearly legitimately hurt Orton, lol.

"There's a sledgehammer in the ring, and the world title is on the line!!!"

Really liked the last few minutes. It had a cinematic quality, which I always like. Mainly due to Orton's superb selling. HOW ANYONE CAN SAY THAT THIS GUY IS NOT SUPREMELY TALENTED, IS BEYOND ME! There's your Emmy nom, ByTor. 

I liked the ending, and am glad that the sledgehammer didn't come into play. I'm seeing even more that people are right that Triple H was booked in a very a-typical way to how most heels are usually booked under Vince....

*** 3/4 and I honestly want to bump it up to **** for the second half and the cinematic quality, but I dunno if I would be overrating it.



Unforgiven was solid as well, but RR was better to me.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The real TITS for Hunter on TV is 2004.

- 3/24 match w/ Shelton
- 4/12 Evolution Tag
- 4/26 Tajiri Bout
- 7/26 Ironman Match W/ Benoit
- 9/6 Cage W/ Eugene
- 11/29 Vs Edge Vs Benoit
- 11/15 Vs Maven
- A WHOLE BUNCH OF EVOLUTION STUFF

HHH was the bomb diggity from 2004-2006 until he went face.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I kind of want to go back on his 2008 because I liked a lot of it while I really, really did not like the rest of it. Pretty sure I didn't like any match with Orton. Don;t really care for any three-ways or four-ways he had. Kozlov match is a no-brainer ball of poo. The Hardy series is obviously very good, and honestly I would love to watch the Khali match again because IDR it. Confession - never seen HHH/Cena NOC. There's also an Edge match on PPV that I will be shocked if I really like.
> 
> What was HHH doing on TV in 2008? There's an Undertaker match IIRC and HHH/Jericho/Hardy, but does he have any real MEAT off of PPV?


You need to see HHH/Cena NoC. Great match. HHH/Edge was good not great. TV wise there's solid matches against Hardy, Benjamin and MVP.

EDIT:

*Triple H v Rob Van Dam - Raw (6/30/03)*
Well look at that, a half decent HHH match from 2003. I say half decent because I can't quite call it good and maintain a clear conscience. Bulk of the match is RVD doing what RVD does and Trips working over his leg to keep him grounded. The leg work from HHH isn't outstanding but it gets the job done. Unfortunately Van Dam being the shitty wrestler that he is decides to sell it well enough only to blow it off later. Idiot. And how many times can one guy use the same kick in a match? Fuck. Flair is great heeling it up on the outside and I enjoyed the chaotic last few minutes with Bischoff restarting it and making it No DQ then falls count anywhere. Good nearfall off the Rolling Thunder on the ramp. The DDT to end it was NASTY. Sickest DDT I've seen in a while.

EDIT 2: The ref in HHH/HBK LMS is a piece of shit retard. He clearly didn't understand that he's only supposed to stop the count when someone gets to both of their feet.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The HHH vs. HBK Last Man Standing was pretty bad, but compared to their Three Stages of Literal Hell match and Literal Hell In a Cell match, it's a ***** classic. :trips2 :hbk2

I should be sleeping because I have a sort of job interview early tomorrow, but I took a long nap today, so I'll probably watch some random matches on YouTube


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Elimination Chamber 2/21/10

Fun fact – this show was evidently known as ‘No Way Out’ in Germany. Another fun fact – this show was unpleasant to watch.

WWE Champion Chamber
How odd to start the show with the Chamber match that has Cena in it. This was so, so boring. Kofi v. Sheamus are your non-pod guys and Kofi diddles Sheamus with his shitty kicks over and over. It’s not even that there’s daylight between the kick and the guy being kicked, it just looks as if there’s no force behind them. Like if Kofi delivered those same kicks to a toddler, it’d just tickle them. As a result Sheamus yelling his head off after each kick looks like verbal oversell. HHH’s entrance is kind of cool, but it feels like it should have come when Sheamus was vulnerable and in a position where HHH would get his actual revenge (for something I think, what would I know). Orton comes out which later leads to a totally terrible finisher-dodge-fest with the RKO, Jamaica Coconut Kick (IDFK) and the pedigree. DiBiase at least brought two seconds of interest with the ‘what will happen with him + Orton’ thing, and then they go on a ‘rampage’ of boring stomps and punches. At least Randy mixed it up and hit a good knee. Then they shove Kofi’s head in a square of chain, hold him in a Boston Crab and start kicking him in the gut, then Randy goes for his apron DDT on Trip and Ted goes ‘nah do it over the steel’……….oops, they accidentally did something interesting. I don’t know why Shemaus wasn’t getting in on the match; I can’t for the life of me remember Orton or DiBiase ever touching him. They don’t bother trying to pin anybody for some dumbass reason and just stand outside of Cena’s pod waiting for him, which was admittedly cool. Cena’s exit of the pod is electric and I haven’t been that happy to see Cena maybe ever. Orton and DiBiase eventually get on top and Cody Rhodes pushes a steel pipe thingamajig through the chain-holes, and DiBiase picks it up and hits both Orton and Cena. Ugh, yeah. OK, I *saw* the Orton/DiBiase break-up coming, but Orton was beating up Cena, who people were cheering for. DiBiase hitting Orton…who was fighting Cena….actually gets DiBiase a pop. Not really the right way to do it. Sheamus, Cena and Trip are the three guys left and Trip stops Sheamus from eliminating Cena which is stupid as well. We’re left with Cena and HHH which I was kind of dreading as an average WWE main event but luckily for me HHH taps to the first thing Cena puts on. Cena is once again WWE champion. But wait---! NOT ADDING THIS FUCKING SUCKED.

John Cena v. Batista
--! Chairman Vince comes out and says Cena can have Mania’s main event if he beats Batista in a WWE title match right now. Big pussy magnet lunchbox collector Dave gets in the ring and stares Cena down, until Cena punches him square in the mouth. And I tell you now Batista sells it perfectly. Stumbles backwards to the ropes with the best kind of ‘big guy taken aback’ stance, and gives a facial expression that I cannot come up with a silly air quotes sentence for. Batista sprint towards Cena, and Cena sells the spear perfectly as well. Jumping before Batista even got him (sounds stupid-looking on paper but you get it). One Batista Bomb later and we got a giant bastard opportunist of a WWE Champion. I almost want to say this was a better match than the chamber. NOT ADDING.

Drew McIntyre v. Kane
Good match. Unremarkable, but good. Kane is sort of frustrating where he’d a massive monster character that’s working nothing like a massive monster character. Being the babyface it’s kind of good that he can seem smaller than he is in a Barry Windham or Dustin Rhodes way, but, again, he’s always had the monster thing stopping him from that. McIntyre majors against working a guy over, but he’s also a super bumper and seller, and that first uppercut sell after he got his ‘get this big fucker down’ flurry was great. Bent backwards slowly and everything. He works over Kane’s arm which is OK but the real money in this match is when he’s falling off of the apron and holding his jaw in pain. Thought he finish was kind of lame. Again this is unremarkable, but I’d use it to add to Drew’s case for having a great 2010 (and I’m happy that I’m enjoying him this much early in the year; I only really had recollection of June-onwards). NOT ADDING.

Gail Kim/Maryse v. Layla/Michelle McCool
I got the tiniest bit excited (maybe more ‘not dreading’ than ‘excited’) for the Kim v. Maryse that was supposed to happen. At the very least Gail cares about doing something cool in the ring and Maryse cares about being a bitch, so I thought something neat could happen. Then Vickie Guerrero interrupts and says SmackDown’s divas are better than Raw’s (I’m lost at this point), and we get this tag match instead. Layla cares about doing something cool in the ring and McCool cares about being a bitch, but, um, not adding. NOT ADDING.

The Miz v. MVP
Oh for fuck’s sake. NOT ADDING.

World Champion Chamber
I saw who was in this, in the PPV opening package, but had forgotten by the time the entrances had come. Everyone but the last guy was out, and I was hoping Christian would be the final dude you get a spot. It was R-Truth. Punk v. R-Truth does a bunch of stuff and thankfully Truth is gone before muthafuckin’ REY comes out. PUNK V. REY! Punk goes ape, throwing Rey into the turnbuckle, and Rey goes even more ape, taking that possible turnbuckle bump and turning it into a head-first-into-fucking-pod bump. They get near the top rope and…….Matt Hardy? Um, for whatever reason my video cuts out to Matt Hardy’s short-lived segment in the Rumble I watched yesterday. I’m not kidding. Jericho is entrant #4 and he’s kind of boring. There was this great spot where he took a Spider-Man-positioned-Rey from the cage to the steel floor, but he undersold a 619 to do it. Honestly I don’t know why he couldn’t have just dodged the 619, wound up on the outside, and Rey jumps into the cage. But yeah, Jericho’s stuff was kind of bleh. He was being slow and time-wastey, and with the new wrestlers coming in at timed periods this isn’t the kind of match to look like you’re filling time. At this point I think this match needed the Undertaker. Hey look, the Undertaker – still in his pod. Morrison unleashes one of the worst forearms I’ve seen in a while and some unexciting flashy shit, but takes a super bump on a pod when Rey pushes him from the top of the turnbuckle. Truth be told I did not expect Rey to be eliminated before Morrison. Taker finally comes in and deals with both Jericho and Morrison, and those two get Taker down believably. Then the match starts hitting its stride. Jericho slaps Taker, who gets pissed and gets up immediately. Best thing of the whole night was Jericho hilariously sprinting into a pod, where Taker follows and beats the shit out of him. Awesome. Taker goes to deal with Morrison, who no sells snake-eyes (ugh) to hit a kick thingy. Taker sits up and stares at the now-OK Jericho, who again hilariously sprints into the pod, outdoing himself for ‘Best Thing of the Whole Night’. Taker tries using Morrison a weapon to break the pod open, and Jericho ingeniously only comes out when Taker has his vision blocked by Morrison’s crotch (IT WAS A LAST RIDE). The Taker v. Jericho singles stuff was pretty good, and Jericho really felt in over his head. Cool that they had believable nearfalls despite that. All of that Taker stuff probably puts this over as MOTN over Kane/McIntyre, but the early goings weren’t interesting enough to give this is a spot on the list. Oh and where the fuck is Christian? NOT ADDING.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> I literally have no idea what's on the card of EC other than the two chambers and now Kane/McIntyre. I like that though, I went in to the Rumble not knowing about Orton/Sheamus or MVP/Miz or the Piggy James stuff. Even if I don't like what's on, it's kind of exciting wondering what'll come out next. It's half of the reason WCW B-shows are some of my favourite things to watch (though that's better b/c you literally have no fucking clue who WCW will pull out on their smallest TV shows with their massive roster, so you see Villano IV v. Brian Knobs and start realizing a dream match you never knew you even had is about to happen).
> 
> 
> TAKA Michinoku is literally one of my ten favourite wrestlers of all time and I didn't find the match with HHH to be anything special. Fun but there are matches of that type done thousands of times better like Rude v. Pillman. Should watch it again.


And as it turned out you thought Kane vs McIntyre was good. Yay. It got bumped off from being MOTN for me thanks to the chamber _(Undertaker, PUNK, Morrison, Mysterio doing their thing & R-Truth looks like an idiot, c'mon. I had to like that one a lot.)_ Wished I could walk into a PPV without knowing all the details. Damn this attention to it all.

WCW B shows is what life is all about.

TAKA match isn't groundbreaking, but for a list of Triple H matches I'll put over, that's gonna be one I'll jump to that isn't vs Mick Foley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I believe there was a Shield/Hell No 5/20 vs Shield/Rhodes Bros discussion. They're both a ****1/4 imo but I kinda prefer the latter, due to a better storyline and, well, *HIGH-FLYER GOLDUST*. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I take credit for all this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dear Seabs:

SUCK MY BALLS.

Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 14/07/2009

So Shelton just recently came over in the DRAFT, and with Christian being a former ECW champ and current #1 contender, the GOLD STANDARD is looking to prove that HE should be on top of ECW. Match is evevn to start with, and then VLADIMIR KOZLOV comes down to do commentary which distracts Christian enough for Shelton to knock him off the ropes and begin his control segment.

:lmao who the fuck thought Vlad on commentary would be a good idea? 

"I CAN BEAT ANY TIME ANY WHERE"

Shelton is smart to go after Christian's arm, a technique that has been used successfully against Christian in the past.

Christian's got that VETERAN INSTINCT going for him though, and he can capitalise on the smallest opening from Shelton to try and make a comeback here and there, but to Shelton's credit he keeps going back to that arm to slow down Christian's momentum.

Oh shit, SHELTON WINS! Totally did NOT expect that, but hey, it was done well so I can't complain. The arm work was a focus of the match, Christian went for the Killswitch at the end, his arm gave out and Shelton capitalised with Paydirt and got the 3. Smart worked match, and good stuff overall. Would have liked it to have been longer than like, 8 minutes, but they did great with the time they got anyway.

Rating: **3/4

Goldust Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 14/07/2009

Bah, I hate Ryder. But I love Goldie. So I'll suffer through Ryder to get me some GOLDUST.

Goldust is another of the superstars ECW got in the draft. So we lost Swagger and Henry (BOOOOO) but we got Regal and Goldust. What about Finlay? Did we lose him too? I seem to recall him being on SD later in the year (I saw him Vs Drew at a SD taping in November). 

Well this isn't anything. Ryder sucks on offence. Goldust doesn't get much in. Match is super short. Ryder wins.

Rating: 1/4*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> I take credit for all this.


You're signature is freaking me out man, I just got stuck in a trance for like 2 minutes staring at it. Just over and over for 2 minutes. I think it gave me epilepsy.

Edge vs Benoit-Last Man Standing rules the world. One of the best LMS I've seen, on par with Jericho/Trips, Cena/Umaga, Trips/Orton NM, Batista/Taker and Foley/Rocky. Gotta be one of the coolest finishes ever, after Edge hits Benoit with multiple spears, a trash can lid, suplexes him onto a trash can, he finally gets so frustrated at Benoit continually getting up that he opens up his MitB briefcase, pulls out a friggin' brick, and just head shots Benoit with it to get the 10 count. Badass.

Standing ovation for Benoit after the match. Love when that happens. Reminds me of the one Eddie got after his No DQ match with Edge on Smackdown.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the magic of Hayley looking like...Hayley.

Love that Last Man Standing match. Ending is so awesome, haha. Edge relies on the briefcase after all of it - with that damn brick he concealed. So cool. Benoit bumps like the nut that he was in it too. Goodness. He never held back on that front.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> I just really want this Japan Supershow from 91 on DVD.


Steiners vs. Hase/Sasaki is on the _Allied Powers _set, if you're looking to track down some more of the show. Would certainly be up for seeing Flair/Fujinami on Flair's hopefully eventual unreleased set.

--------------

You know what would be badass? If we got HHH vs. Big Show UNSACTIONED MATCH at HIAC. They'd be putting all their eggs in one basket and making up for the past two stinkers of a ppv if they pulled that gimmick out again.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You know what would be badass? If we got HHH vs. Big Show UNSACTIONED MATCH at HIAC. They'd be putting all their eggs in one basket and making up for the past two stinkers of a ppv if they pulled that gimmick out again.


I'm so anxious to see Trips work a match as a heel again, that I wouldn't care what kind of match it was. UNSANCTIONED though, it's where it's at.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd prefer no stip behind the Show vs Trips match only b/c I fear that would water things down. Trips + stip = usual same formula. I trust their natural chemistry with each other to deliver like it always has without a stip. Show gets some great stuff from Trips. NYR '06 is a match I'm really big on, for example.

Also, is that Flair set rumored or only wishful thinking by you, Corey?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I'm so anxious to see Trips work a match as a heel again, that I wouldn't care what kind of match it was. UNSANCTIONED though, it's where it's at.





The Primer said:


> I'd prefer no stip behind the Show vs Trips match only b/c I fear that would water things down. Trips + stip = usual same formula. I trust their natural chemistry with each other to deliver like it always has without a stip. Show gets some great stuff from Trips. NYR '06 is a match I'm really big on, for example.
> 
> Also, is that Flair set rumored or only wishful thinking by you, Corey?


Unsactioned would just make sense in this instance since Big Show was "fired" by Steph and that way there'd be no repercussions for what they'd do to each other. Clearly Trips is gonna be pissed on RAW next week, so we'll see what happens.

The Flair set is just a thought, but it's a thought shared by many. You've gotta think it's gonna be made someday. If Hogan & Bret can get one, Flair should too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My guess is someone in management rehired Show, thus allowing him to be re-instated. We'll find out next Monday.

Well, Hogan made sense b/c he's the most popular wrestler in history. Bret is huge among the WWF/WWE market. Again, more plausible reasoning. Flair does seem to be the next lock on the list. Widely regarded as the greatest by most die-hard wrestling fans + with a catalog that's seemingly endless. Imagine all the goodies that could make the set. Flair work from Japan being a bonus would be pristine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Saw Benoit/Edge LMS get a mention. Haven't seen it in years but I gave it ***3/4 when I did see it for the WWF/E Top 100 Matches poll. Great match, but a step below the "big" LMS matches like Y2J/HHH, Batista/Undertaker and Orton/HHH NM. On par with the other good Orton/HHH match and Show/Undertaker and way better than the likes of Cena/Youmanga. Took me bloody ages to find what I wrote about it/what I rated it... turns out I was searching for it in the 2000-2004 thread rather than the 05-present :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't go making this about negative Cena vs Umaga praise now. 

I WAS IN A GOOD MOOD.

but yeah, all the Last Man Standing matches mentioned, I'm a fan of. That's a fairly consistent gimmick when you look at it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

They'd have to make an unreleased Flair set like 6 discs to really do it justice considering how long most of his matches were. Now that they have Mid South footage it's even more of a must-make project. Windham, Wahoo, Reed, Magnum, Fujinami, Vader, more Steamboat, more Harley, and the list goes on and on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't mind a Last Man Standing Anthology being released, mainly to get all the TV ones on DVD/Bluray. Plenty that I know exist but don't remember a damn thing about like Angle/JBL, Show/HHH, Show/MVP (though I do have this on my PC since I gots all SD 09 shows and I'm 34.6% sure it happened in 09), and then some I'm forgetting about (Was there a Jericho/HBK one on Raw?).


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

How long did this "Lesnar clone" attire last?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> I take credit for all this.


Good for ya, Hayley fan :hayley2

2013: The Year Of The Great Tags... That Isn't 2004.

And with that said, I'm officially pumped for what they'll come up with for Survivor Series in Boston _(the last Main Event of a SVS in Boston was the amazing Jericho/Cena btw)_ :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Wouldn't mind a Last Man Standing Anthology being released, mainly to get all the TV ones on DVD/Bluray. Plenty that I know exist but don't remember a damn thing about like Angle/JBL, Show/HHH, Show/MVP (though I do have this on my PC since I gots all SD 09 shows and I'm 34.6% sure it happened in 09), and then some I'm forgetting about (Was there a Jericho/HBK one on Raw?).


Yep, Jericho vs Shawn final blowoff went down on RAW in late '08. Those Smackdown ones I'm real curious to check out. Recall liking Show vs Trips a lot and not just b/c Big Show won. Although I went nuts watching live.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Projected Survivor Series main event (mine that is):

Team Corporation (HHH, Randy Orton, & The Shield) vs. Team Bryan (Daniel Bryan, Big Show, Cody Rhodes, Goldust, & MAYBE Ziggler or Miz or Henry)

Who knows who that 5th guy would be but damn that looks :mark:

-----------------

I found this article to be quite funny and ironic:

http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/300027


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> Yep, Jericho vs Shawn final blowoff went down on RAW in late '08. Those Smackdown ones I'm real curious to check out. Recall liking Show vs Trips a lot and not just b/c Big Show won. Although I went nuts watching live.


Do you know when the HHH/Show one happened?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1/9/09.

Edition of Smackdown where Triple H had to go through the gauntlet - aka three different matches - on the night.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just that team of HHH/Orton/Shield man.......

That shit is jizzworthy. HHH da gawd, Orton da king, Shield da knights ya feel me?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: I thought it was in 08. I gots SD 09 on my PC so I can watch it now :mark:. Which means stopping watching NWO 01 for the time being.

*sees next match is the 3SOH match*

WOOO SHOW VS HHH LMS MATCH!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rather see Real Americans with The Shield, tbhayley. like WAYYYYYY more. 

Face team looks fabulous though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So HHH/Show LMS is pretty shitty and DULL.

Right up until HHH lands a Pedigree. Then it gets fucking AWESOME. From here he goes on to make his big babyface comeback and it's pretty tremendous. Show is still suffering from the Pedigree, and he just starts swinging, desperate to land a knockout shot on the game, who dodges every single blow until Show tires himself out. That whole sequence along is :mark:. From there Show eventually gets back in charge, nearly winning but HHH fell out of the ring and landed on his feet long enough to break the count. Another little comeback attempt is then stopped with a chokeslam on the table, but HHH is able to fall off the table onto his feet like he did earlier with the ring to save himself. And then BAM. Knockout punch. HHH is finished. Shame the first half of the match had to suck. Show was slow and dull with his offence and the lame countout attempts just slowed things down even more. We all knew HHH wasn't gonna stay down from a fucking scoop slam so why waste 30 seconds doing the world's slowest 6 count? *** overall, and the second half is 100% credited to that rating.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have a tendency with forgiving little things like the body slam part mentioned, so with it ending really strong I'm certain I'll still enjoy it whenever I get around to watching again. This pleases me.

BIG SHOW.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Projected Survivor Series main event (mine that is):
> 
> Team Corporation (HHH, Randy Orton, & The Shield) vs. Team Bryan (Daniel Bryan, Big Show, Cody Rhodes, Goldust, & MAYBE Ziggler or Miz or Henry)
> 
> Who knows who that 5th guy would be but damn that looks :mark:


Gon' be Ziggler as it seems atm. Jesus, that does look awesome.

And also with the return of Rey in mid/late October, we may get Cena/Rey for the WHC :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh you'll definitely enjoy it. That whole second half is :mark:.

Well, 3SOH time . This is like, 40 minutes or something, right?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yay :mark:

Yep, around that mark or something. Think the exact duration is closer to 38 minutes...so yeah. Enjoy that substandard Attitude Era brawling. We all know that doesn't get old after five minutes of punching...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MOTN for me so far with NWO 01 is... TRISH VS STEPHANIE. Can this match overtake it? WE SHALL SEE :lmao.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That show is the one I recall the least via it not being on DVD _(in America)_ so I'm not entirely vivid with all matches to try and say I disagree with that, although I do remember thinking Trish vs Steph was perfectly fine for what was given. I just wonder how poor that Intercontinental four way match is now. Then again, we've differed a good bit so far on 2001 matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FFS I like the 3SOH Godammit.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Gon' be Ziggler as it seems atm. Jesus, that does look awesome.
> 
> And also with the return of Rey in mid/late October, we may get Cena/Rey for the WHC :mark:


Of course they could go the route of having Del Rio somehow beat Cena in his return match to setup Del Rio/Mysterio at SSeries, buuuut then they'd probably thrust Cena into this corporation storyline, which I'm honestly not sure if I want. Then he'd be the 5th guy in Boston...

Either way I actually don't see Cena beating Del Rio, unless Cena beats him and Sandow cashes in on Cena after Del Rio has put a hurting on his injured arm. Too many possibilities. 

EDIT: WWE.com just reported that a CM Punk vs. Ryback rematch was made for HIAC. Meh... give me a gimmick and maybe I'll enjoy it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lol I actually really like 3SOH Trips/Austin too. I wouldn't call it a guilty pleasure either, you assholes can't make me feel guilty for enjoying that craziness 

Seriously though, I watched it for the first time since it aired about a month ago and had zero expectations because of how badly everyone shits on it in here. I thought watching ANYTHING involving Trips for 38+ minutes would make me want to fork my own eyeballs out (Rocky Ironman match aside).

I was as shocked as anyone to find myself enjoying it completely. It just came off as an absolute WAR, instead of the generic AE brawling that Cody mentioned (I'm generally not a fan of that stuff either, well unless it's FOLEY doing the brawling ). The first 20 or so minutes absolutely fly by, because Austin works like a man possessed, just constant motion and ass kicking. If they cut about 5-8 minutes off the end match, I'd say it was an absolute classic. Even still, I liked it. Too much intensity and action to truthfully be bored by anything they did.

Meh, to each his own. I'm going back to my Jericho vs Rey match from The Bash now, can't wait to read Cal's review of NWO and 3SOH, I'm setting the over/under for amount of times I laugh out loud at 3.5.

For the record CAL, Cena/Umaga LMS kicks fucking ass. Wrench spot and all 

My top LMS matches in WWE:

1. Jericho/Trips
2. Foley/Rocky
3. Taker/Batista
4. Benoit/Edge
5. Trips/Orton NM
6. Cena/Umaga

.....shit, just looking at that list, I know I've forgotten a major one. Wtf is it....


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Talking about guilty pleasures, i bought No Holds Barred DVD today  , had it on VHS as a kid but lost it.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Chria Benoit vs Curt Hennig- WCW Nitro 1997- ***1/2, damn this was a really good match. These two just destroyed each other in a very entertaining match.

Also I rewatched all the HHH/Show matches that I could find:

Big Show vs Triple H NoDQ- RAW 1999 **1/4
Big Show vs Triple H RAW JAnuary 2000 **
Big Show vs Triple H New Years' revolution 2006 *1/2
Big Show vs Triple H SmackDown 2008- **1/4
Big Show vs Triple H RAW Lumberjack Match 2009 **3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Big Show vs Triple H New Years' revolution 2006 *1/2


Are you SURE you watched the match? WAY, WAY too low imo lol.


Never actually watched NHB lol. I do however own Suburban Commando and Mr Nanny on DVD . And the GOAT wrestling movie READY TO RUMBLE :mark:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Talking about guilty pleasures, i bought No Holds Barred DVD today  , had it on VHS as a kid but lost it.


The Hogan movie starring D-Bo from Friday?? :lmao 


You win.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Are you SURE you watched the match? WAY, WAY too low imo lol.
> 
> 
> And the GOAT wrestling movie SANTA WITH MUSCLES :mark:.


Fixed


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Are you SURE you watched the match? WAY, WAY too low imo lol.
> 
> 
> Never actually watched NHB lol. I do however own Suburban Commando and Mr Nanny on DVD . And the GOAT wrestling movie READY TO RUMBLE :mark:.


I didn't like the match at all. The match started good, but it fell of the cliff as it continued. The last 6-7 minutes were so bad, that I can't even call them boring. A 12-13 minute match it would have got a **1/2 rating, but this was shot, just too long and to boring, but the start was good, I'll give them that


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> The Hogan movie starring D-Bo from Friday?? :lmao
> 
> 
> You win.


Hogan/Zeus - takes me back :



Callamus said:


> Are you SURE you watched the match? WAY, WAY too low imo lol.
> 
> 
> Never actually watched NHB lol. I do however own Suburban Commando and Mr Nanny on DVD . And the GOAT wrestling movie READY TO RUMBLE :mark:.


Wanted to get R2R but its waaaaaay OOP now, had Suburban Commando on VHS too but again, can't locate it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got Ready to Rumble years ago, but only got Suburban Commando/Mr Nanny recently. Imported it from America, comes as a double pack with both on 1 disc lol. Cost me about £6 in total with shipping .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> I got Ready to Rumble years ago, but only got Suburban Commando/Mr Nanny recently. Imported it from America, comes as a double pack with both on 1 disc lol. Cost me about £6 in total with shipping .


 I may just get SC, i'm a sucka for that nostalgia lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HHH/Henry Raw 6/23/08 is really good. Short and sweet. Praise worthy performances from both men.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Really hoping HHH/Show happens at HIAC. Would actually lead me to order the event.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF No Way Out 2001*




*Raven Vs The Big Show - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

:mark:

NINJA WOMEN~! She ties to attack Show on his way to the ring. No luck. Tori is the NIJA WOMEN~! but fuck knows why or what happened to her lol.

WEAPONS~! HARDCORE~! EXTREME~!

Seeing Raven try to knock Big Show off his feet is pretty awesome. Then from out of nowhere a popcorn vender attacks Raven... turns out to be CRASH~!

STEVE "HARDCORE" BLACKMAN~!

BOB "ACTUALLY NICKNAMED HARDCORE" HOLLY~!

KENDO STICK TO BIG SHOW'S HEAD!

BILLY GUNN~! FAMASSER~! NEW HARDCORE CHAMPION~!

THIS IS FUCKING CHAOS AND I LOVE IT!!! 

Billy don't get chance to escape with the belt though as the ring is filled with guys desperate (fuck knows why lol) to get their hands on the title!

And then BIG SHOW gets back up. And nobody is safe.

RAVEN WINS BACK THE TITLE!

CRASH FLIES!

NINJA WOMEN IS BACK! MOLLY HOLLY RUNS BEHIND HER AND SMACKS HER IN THE HEAD WITH A TRASH CAN LID!

:lmao Raven MISSES Big Show with a trash can. He MISSED THE WORLD'S LARGEST ATHLETE WITH A BIG FUCK OFF TRASH CAN :lmao.

Chokeslam through the trash can!!! Show wins the title! Gunn tries to get it back but Big Show throws him away. BIG SHOW IS HARDCORE CHAMPION~!

Sweet baby Jebus this is immensely FUN. Look up fun in the dictionary... you'll get some crappy explanation when really they should just tell you to watch THIS.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Chris Jericho Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit Vs X-Pac - WWF Intercontinental Championship Match*

Fuck me look at that TALENT.

I like that everyone in this match has had a feud with Jericho in the last year (Eddie not so much, but Jericho injured him so that's that). Everyone wants to KILL JERICHO :mark:. My money is on Benoit 8*D.

Jericho starts by taking the fight to everyone since they all wanna kill him. The numbers game eventually gets to him though, especially with Benoit and Guerrero working together. BUT FOR HOW LONG? THE SUSPENSE! YAWN. They'll start fighting soon. They always do. Boring.

Of course with multiple guys in the match, they have to get rid of 2 on the outside so we can have just 2 in the ring at most times. Gives everyone a chance to take on Jericho 1 on 1, and some of it is good (Benoit Vs Jericho mainly)... but I'd have preferred a singles match. Jericho and Eddie probably could have done better in a singles match. They never had a PPV match (except for the UK Insurrextion one anyway), so would have been nice if they got the chance here. The feuds with Benoit and X-Pac were over, but Eddie was just back from being INJURED by Jericho so surely a singles feud SHOULD have happened, right?

Lots of MOVES~! here, which is ok and all I guess. These kind of matches are rarely anything else . Makes for a nice finishing stretch at least, which I'd say starts when Justin Credible comes down to help X-Pac. DOUBLE SUPERKICK TO BENOIT :mark:. Love that double move.

FUCKING HELL. I think X-pac might be responsible for Benoit... that fucking KICK. RIGHT IN THE HEAD. That HAD to have fucking hurt.

Jericho rolls X-Pac up while he's celebrating the KICK OF DOOM and gets the win.

Fun match overall, but I would have still preferred a singles match. Less MOVES~! and more substance would have been nice.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao at poor Regal trying to make sense of what Vince wants him to do tonight in the STEPHANIE VS TRISH FAP MATCH.


*Stephanie McMahon Vs Trish Stratus*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FA.... no wait! Must. Concentrate. On. Match.

Why? Because I remember this being GOOD.

Damn Steph looks hot when she's mad. ANGRY SEX~!

These ladies are trying to destroy each other! Pretty great brawl to start things off! Stephanie takes a bump over the barricade to the CONCRETE like a fucking boss... then gets back up and DECKS TRISH IN THE FACE. 

FAP FAP FAP TRISH'S SHORTS HAVE TURNED INTO A THONG.

No no concentrate... concentrate...

Damn, STEPHANIE hitting some pretty stiff shots! MUST AVOID PENIS JOKE.

DDT! Steph takes that better than half the guys! Or at the very least, Kane. Kane CANNOT take face/head bumps. He just can't. Seriously. Watch him any time he has to take a DDT, or an RKO, or a Bulldog. HE CANNOT DO IT. He just sticks his arms down and bounces off them with his head about 2 feet off the floor.

HATE~! Fucking plenty of HATE~! in this :mark:. 

WET T-SHIRT! WET T-SHIRT!

OH SHIT HURRICANRANA COUNTERED INTO A POWERBOMB!

STEPHANIE PULLS DOWN TRISH'S SHORTS, REVEALS A THONG AND SPANKS HER!!! STEPHANIE IS TRYING TO STRIP TRISH!!!

Both ladies charge at each other and take each other out. So Regal shows up, takes down the referee and... places Trish on top of Stephanie... then when the ref starts counting he puts Stephanie's foot on the ropes! He doesn't have a clue what to do :lmao. Trish slaps him, so he retaliates with his cross arm neckbreaker! STEPHANIE GETS THE WIN!

This is legitimately GOOD. Hot as fuck too. But most importantly GOOD.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao Vince absolutely verbally destroys Regal backstage for not doing what he wanted. TAG MATCH MADE FOR RAW. Where Vince turns on Trish... yet somehow they stay together until WM. LOL.


*Triple H Vs Steve Austin - 3 Stages of Hell Match - 1st Fall = Singles Match. 2nd Fall = Street Fight. 3rd Fall = Cage Match*

As far as actual feuds go, this was pretty damn AWESOME. A ton of great moments from both guys screwing each other out of the WWF Title, to the awesome contract signing, to Austin Stunning STEPHANIE. One of the best examples of a pure HATE~! filled feud. Just a shame their matches were never on par with the feud. Their Survivor Series 00 match sucked, and I am not a big fan of this one either. Maybe things will change.

Starts off good at least . The first fall might be a straight up "wrestling" match, but Austin comes out swinging and is determined to maul HHH to death... just within the rules of a regular match lol.

Austin ends up targeting HHH's arm fairly quickly, and it hinders HHH quickly as it prevents him potentially landing a Pedigree and ending the first fall.

WORST ARN ANDERSON SPINEBUSTER EVER. By Austin.

HHH targets Austin's neck. And then decides to throw him into the corner and kick him in the gut a few times. And then chop blocks his knee. MAKE UP YOUR FECKING MIND.

Ok, seems HHH has settled on leg work now. FIGURE FOUR. Hey Miz, THIS is a figure four. For the love of god take notes or something. Please.

Leg work? WHAT LEG WORK? Austin literally IGNORES IT straight away. Stunner and he wins the first fall. Wow, that was completely uneventful and forgettable.

Street fight time. 

MONITOR SHOT TO HHH'S FACE. And then for some reason Austin decides to throw a bunch of chairs in the ring (why he needs more than 1 I'll never know lol), and that gives HHH time to recover... and escape . YEY BRAWLING IN THE CROWD... thank fuck they get back to the ring pretty quickly.

Back to the ring and Austin continues his HATE~! filled rampage by mauling HHH with a chair, similar to what he did to Rock at WM. A month later. Totally just realised half way into that sentence that this is BEFORE WM 17 .

And then, after beating HHH up with ONE chair... he grabs the ring bell. Why not just like... keep using the chair? Or another chair? You have 3 of the fuckers there. Why waste ANY TIME going for the ring bell when you clearly aren't in short supply of fucking weapons?

2x4 wrapped in barbed wire shows up... and honestly it's reveal is RANDOM AS SHIT. Now, if Austin went for that instead of the ring bell, it would have been fine. "Steel chair? Nah, not enough... I'll get a fucking 2x4 wrapped in barbed wire!" That would have been cool. But no. "Steel chair? Nah, not good enough. Steel ring bell!" Then he doesn't even USE the ring bell, ends up back by the timekeepers table and randomly seems to find the 2x4. Just baffles me tbh.

But that small ( :side: ) annoyance aside, at least they are keeping up with the HATE~! part of the match. Austin gets busted open, HHH gets put through a table. They are at least trying to kill each other... just not very efficiently. Man, does anyone know how to commit murder properly? Do I gotta show em how it's done?

The SLEGDEHAMMER reveal is at least done better. They spend a while trying to kill each other in the ring using the ring bell and the chairs, then the steel steps come out, but neither of them can put the other away... so HHH goes over to the announce table that isn't broke and reaches under to pull out his trusty weapon! THIS is HHH's big game changer, and after fighting with Austin to actually use it, it takes one shot to the head to put Austin down long enough for HHH to hit the Pedigree and get the second fall win.

That fall was actually mostly really good. Definitely came across better than the last time I saw it. Shame the first fall had to happen, because honestly it was just pure shite, and serves absolutely NO PURPOSE to the match. I swear it's just there so Austin could pin HHH (and pin him first) so he doesn't look a total jobber when he loses to HHH twice going into WM.

Cage match time! BARBED WIRE TO THE FACE. OF BOTH MEN. :mark:

So this is kinda boring tbh. Just standard stuff for the most part. At least they do a pretty damn good job of selling the effects of the street fight. Austin's Stunner is awesome. He turns around pretty slowly and then just kinda falls forward and it actually looks really cool how it's done.

Finish is what it is. Both hit each other in the face with weapons, and HHH is the lucky one who happens to land on Austin. Gives HHH the win, keeps Austin strong in defeat going into WM. I'm fine with it tbh.

Overall... this match isn't great. It's not some big all time classic, it's not MOTY, it's not a MOTYC. It's GOOD, but nothing more. The first fall shouldn't have happened at all. Was a complete and utter waste of time that adds NOTHING to the match. The street fight is mostly really good, albeit with a couple of flaws. Cage is kinda dull but it does have its moments. All of it combined gives us a good match, but not one I'm looking to re-watch any time in the next decade.

My rating stays the same as before, but I ended up liking and disliking different thing compared to last time that evened out and kept the rating the same lol.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Steven Richards Vs Jerry Lawler - If Lawer wins, The Kat gets naked. If Steven wins, The Kat joins RTC*

THE FAP FAP KAT.

:lmao at Richards doing a HO TRAIN.

10 punched in the corner? Nah. TWENTY SIX~! King really wants Kat to get naked! Then again he probably doesn't care if he wins or not cos HE HITTING THAT.

Really, really shitty finish, and Steven Richards wins. Kat leaves the company soon after and Lawler goes with her.

Bad.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs The Undertaker & Kane - WWF Tag Team Championship Tables Match*

E&C are stuck in the middle of the ramp way between Undertaker & Kane and those DAMN DUDLEYS. So they bail over the sides of the ramp and let the other 2 teams go at it. Which results in both Dudley Boys getting thrown off the ramp to the floor :lmao.

UNDERTAKER AND KANE ARE ON FIRE. WELL, BAD CHOICE OF WORDS. SORRY KANE.

Fans chant "WE WANT TABLES" during a tables match. Bit redundant, is it not? You gonna get tables. It's the whole point of the match. You don't chant "WE WANT PINFALLS" during a singles match, do you? No. So shut the fuck up.

"BUBBA'S CUMMING!"

STEREO TOP ROPE CLOTHESLINES~!

Undertaker and Kane pretty much DOMINATE this match, forcing the other 2 teams to try and work together, but damn, BOD are just killing em.

Just as it looks like they are gonna win the tag belts... RIKISHI AND HAKU (MENG) SHOW UP! They battle up the rampway, allowing The Dudley Boys to get the win inside the ring.

This is fun, not much more though.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - WWF Championship Match*

Fuck me, 10 minutes into this one and I've had NOTHING TO WRITE ABOUT. They've just gone back and forth with some moves.

Then Big Show comes out and fucks everyone up. Kinda like he did at Battleground :lmao. Except they decide to just like, get a new referee out here to keep the match going.

:lmao at Hebner. He and Tim White come down to help their fallen referee, but then Hebner spots Angle covering Rock and LETS GO of the other ref, leaving him and Tim White to fall down, so he can count to 2 .

They hit some finishers. Hebner kinda I think screws up the count after a Rock Bottom so he has to hit another. Rock wins the title.

Good GOD this match is just... empty. Nothing there. It's just a bunch of stuff.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7.5*​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

3¼ for 3 Stages of Hell? I'm shocked because based on Cal's constant bashing, you'd expect one star or something like that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I bash it mainly because it's somehow seen as this all time ***** classic and a GOAT candidate, so bitching at a match considered THAT good doesn't necessarily mean I'm bitching at it for being the worst thing ever and a DUD rating . If I saw a match being given *** and I called it shite or something, THEN there'd be a good chance I'd barely give it a * .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Triple H v The Great Khali - Summerslam (8/17/08)*
KingOfKing's review convinced me to re-watch this and I'm glad I did. I always thought it was solid and way better than it had any right being but that's underselling it a bit. It's a legitimately good match and one of HHH's best babyface performances. I'd gladly use this as an example of a match where HHH is the driving force. He does a great job selling the power and threat Khali brings to the table and his effort working from underneath searching for openings and making everything seem like a struggle against his gigantic opponent made for an engaging contest. Some really neat cutoffs to Hunter's comeback attempts as well. The big boot from Khali when he was trapped in the ropes was probably the best. Seemed like a real opportunity for Trips to gain an advantage but Khali shut the door immediately. The chop on the ring apron was nice too. Good focus on H needing the Pedigree to win and whether he could actually hit it on Khali or not so it's a nice payoff and appropriate out-of-nowhere finish when he does land it. Good match, better than any of the ones I watched on HHH's DVD last night.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> I bash it mainly because it's somehow seen as this all time ***** classic and a GOAT candidate, so bitching at a match considered THAT good doesn't necessarily mean I'm bitching at it for being the worst thing ever and a DUD rating . If I saw a match being given *** and I called it shite or something, THEN there'd be a good chance I'd barely give it a * .



Yea you kinda surprised me with that rating, I have it around ***3/4-****, I thought you were about to give it the old 1/4*. Really, really liked the Street Fight portion. And while the 1st fall serves no real purpose, there is still lots of fun action and Austin being a complete maniac. Cage fall was good, slow, but really it had to be after the complete WAR that was the 2nd fall. All in all, very, very good match. Can't think of a better one between these two. I hesitate to use GREAT, which is anything ****+ for me.

If I were rating the falls, it would be

1st Fall ***
2nd Fall ****1/4
3rd Fall ***1/2

Which averages out to about ***3/4. So yea. Good stuff.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It's definitely their best match together... but it's like HHH/HBK in the sense that their best match isn't a compliment really because so many of them are god awful. I'm just glad we didn't get 1000 Austin/HHH matches .

If I were to put stars on each fall:

1st - 1/4*
2nd - ***
3rd - *1/2

Unfortunately combing the falls didn't combine the stars .

BACKLASH 01 UP NEXT :mark:. Followed by SUMMERSLAM 01 :mark:. And then since I started the 01 reviews with INVASION I figured I'd end with SURVIVOR SERIES which ended the Invasion angle.


----------



## Dark Church (Jan 17, 2005)

Battleground 2013
16:40 Rob Van Dam vs Alberto Del Rio - ***1/2
7:06 Khali & Santino vs Real Americans - *3/4
7:39 Curtis Axel vs R Truth - **1/4
6:38 Brie Bella vs AJ Lee - *1/4
13:55 The Shield vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - ***3/4
8:17 Kofi Kingston vs Bray Wyatt - **1/4
14:47 Ryback vs CM Punk - **
23:42 Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - ***1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did anything come of that Meng/Rikishi run-in in regards to Kane/Undertaker?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Did anything come of that Meng/Rikishi run-in in regards to Kane/Undertaker?


I was gonna say First Blood tag match on SMACKDOWN EXTREME~! but I actually think that show happened before NWO... so probably not lol :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hhh/henry 6/23 was pretty good,great sub 10 min match

*reigns/rollins vs. hell no raw 5/27/13 *
Good match here, picks up very well towards the end of the match, this but went bryan was having the "weakest link" thing going on. Alike bryan/rollins, this is good not top 10 material though.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

*Daniel Bryan vs. Antonio Cesaro (from the Gauntlet Match) - RAW 7/22/13*





Finally got around to watching this again. One of the best matches of this year. The part where Cesaro tries to cripple Bryan with all those uppercuts. :mark: I'm surprised there wasn't a "Holy Shit" chant after that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I loved the Bryan being the weakest link shit. For me he produced his best matches of the year during that period.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I love bryan now, I love his offense since mid-late summer, one of the reasons I enjoyed the orton match at battleground as he was mostly on offense in it

His offense has changed slightly since the team hell no tags


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Agreed, SD. I mean, he was already over but the Weak Link storyline made him even more over and was pretty great build-up for him and the SS match with Cena.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I just love Bryan all the time except when he's against Orton. I haven't seen their match at Battleground, and I've already deleted the file off my PC (after slicing out the SHIELD/RHODES tag match first ).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Am I the only guy that actually loved Orton/Bryan? :side:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea all the orton/bryan matches are shit outside of the sd and battleground( for Dbryan) didnt see NOC, but I heard Orton was mostly in control the whole match and so I'll pass

I need to watch that bryan/cesaro match again, see if it holds up, best raw match this year from what I remember and top 5 this year


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

His matches with Orton have been awesome, imo. They have great chemistry.

But to be honest, I hope it ends at either HIAC or Survivor Series.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Am I the only guy that actually loved Orton/Bryan? :side:


No.

I enjoyed the Battleground match quite a bit, except the finish obviously.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan and Orton just don't have it as a pairing. I liked their Smackdown match. The rest have been solid but unremarkable, or less than that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've not thought much of any of their matches so far, be it TV or NOC.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Am I the only guy that actually loved Orton/Bryan? :side:


Nah. I feel like most people didn't like it because of the Big Show fucking up the ending and because of that "it's a bad match by default". fpalm I think it was a great match, just as good as NoC but I give a slight edge to the NoC match because the ending wasn't that bad apart from the fast count.


redskins25 said:


> *Yea all the orton/bryan matches are shit outside of the sd and battleground( for Dbryan*) didnt see NOC, but I heard Orton was mostly in control the whole match and so I'll pass
> 
> I need to watch that bryan/cesaro match again, see if it holds up, best raw match this year from what I remember and top 5 this year


Eh, I don't agree with that. That one RAW where they had that Street Fight was pretty good. I think most of that matches in general (not just the recent ones) have delivered.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Eulonzo said:


> Eh, I don't agree with that. That one RAW where they had that Street Fight was pretty good. I think most of that matches in general (not just the recent ones) have delivered.


Agree to disagree, street fight may be their worst, they just dont click, and both guys have been having decent matches with others recently too, just not together

I liked battleground ATF


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FFS, has anyone had a video taken off YT for copyright claims? They took down a Punk/Eddie match and now i have to go through 'Copyright school' before i can continue. Jeez.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I make all videos unlisted. Only people who have the URL can see it, so it might have less of a chance of being taken down. I've assumed, anyway.....not really sure if it's true, but none of my uploads have gone under so yey?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still don't understand what was so bad about Orton/Bryan's street fight. Are people just complaining for the sake of complaining like they do with Angle/Benoit RR/UF?

EDIT: Ok I sorta understand RR, but what was so bad about UF?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When I upload videos these days I use Dailymotion. Never had anything taken down yet and I've had some stuff on for YEARS. And you can have private videos too just in case, which I do for some of the better videos that I wanna make sure stay online.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> When I upload videos these days I use Dailymotion. Never had anything taken down yet and I've had some stuff on for YEARS. And you can have private videos too just in case, which I do for some of the better videos that I wanna make sure stay online.


Yeah Cal, may be the better route to go in future


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still don't understand what was so bad about Orton/Bryan's street fight. Are people just complaining for the sake of complaining like they do with Angle/Benoit RR/UF?


Apparently, calling No DQ matches "typical WWE street fights" is criticism used against that type of matches.



Callamus said:


> When I upload videos these days I use Dailymotion. Never had anything taken down yet and I've had some stuff on for YEARS. And you can have private videos too just in case, which I do for some of the better videos that I wanna make sure stay online.


Are there any good matches you have in high quality that aren't available elsewhere? I'm mainly thinking of Angle/Taker from 2003 and Benoit/HHH Ironman match. Would love to see them available in higher quality if you got it.

I also got this stupid copyright school thing when I uploaded a Raw episode from the summer of 2006. Fucking annoying.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Are there any good matches you have in high quality that aren't available elsewhere? I'm mainly thinking of Angle/Taker from 2003 and Benoit/HHH Ironman match. Would love to see them available in higher quality if you got it.
> 
> I also got this stupid copyright school thing when I uploaded a Raw episode from the summer of 2006. Fucking annoying.


I am taking a break from uploading due to having less free time, but i can squeeze one more in, think i have it on a comp, if not ill dig out the Undertaker: Tombstone DVD.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still don't understand what was so bad about Orton/Bryan's street fight. Are people just complaining for the sake of complaining like they do with Angle/Benoit RR/UF?
> 
> EDIT: Ok I sorta understand RR, but what was so bad about UF?


Because I'm a HEEL and I hate Randy Ortons' guts


JK I have never liked that match, like EVER


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I like Dailymotion, but they have some shit quality matches on there as well, just not as bad as YouTube.

High quality matches >>> poor quality that makes the wrestlers and everything else look almost like blobs.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> I am taking a break from uploading due to having less free time, but i can squeeze one more in, think i have it on a comp, if not ill dig out the Undertaker: Tombstone DVD.


Oh, it's on Tombstone? Well, that's one less match for me to wish to get in great quality. But if you can upload it, it would be appreciated. That way I can also save myself the time of downloading the whole thing just for one match. (which is what I did with Here Comes the Pain only for the Angle Ironman match)



Eulonzo said:


> I like Dailymotion, but they have some shit quality matches on there as well, just not as bad as YouTube.
> 
> High quality matches >>> poor quality that makes the wrestlers and everything else look almost like blobs.


The site it's uploaded on is irrelevant. The quality depends on the date or where the video is taken from. Most of the old uploads obviously have terrible quality.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Are there any good matches you have in high quality that aren't available elsewhere? I'm mainly thinking of Angle/Taker from 2003 and Benoit/HHH Ironman match. Would love to see them available in higher quality if you got it.


Don't have that many videos on there, a lot of the matches are just random things people have asked me to put there. Most aren't THAT HQ because a lot of it is unreleased (by WWE officially) stuff or a few TV matches here and there. I have Undertaker's DVD within arms reach (AS IT FUCKING SHOULD BE) so I can get that Angle match online tonight for ya. Iron Man is about 2 feet away from me so I can do that, but it'll be 2morrow when I get it uploaded just because I have a slow upload speed and it'll be a large file size being an hour long, and I wanna go to bed tonight without my PC being on .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Oh, it's on Tombstone? Well, that's one less match for me to wish to get in great quality. But if you can upload it, it would be appreciated. That way I can also save myself the time of downloading the whole thing just for one match. (which is what I did with Here Comes the Pain only for the Angle Ironman match)


EDIT - Cal is sorting it!!! Thanks Cal.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Ah, I see.

Also, is it just me or is Dailymotion's search engine shitty sometimes? I just searched "CM Punk vs" just to see what matches would come up and I got nothing, so I tested it and just put "CM Punk" after and still got nothing.. weird.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like Orton/Bryan.

*Raw NODQ - ***1/2
NOC - ***1/2
Battleground - ***1/4*

If they get the chance to deliver with a proper finish at HIAC I think it can be great. Looking forward to it although I hope that's their last. We need a winner at this stage. 

Currently downloading Raw 2004. I'm about 40% through :mark: :mark: :mark:.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I still don't understand what was so bad about Orton/Bryan's street fight. Are people just complaining for the sake of complaining like they do with Angle/Benoit RR/UF?
> 
> EDIT: Ok I sorta understand RR, but what was so bad about UF?


I don't think anything was "so bad" about it, just nothing was very good either. Match was just kind of there for me. Collection of well executed moves and spots but I didn't get into it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Don't have that many videos on there, a lot of the matches are just random things people have asked me to put there. Most aren't THAT HQ because a lot of it is unreleased (by WWE officially) stuff or a few TV matches here and there. I have Undertaker's DVD within arms reach (AS IT FUCKING SHOULD BE) so I can get that Angle match online tonight for ya. Iron Man is about 2 feet away from me so I can do that, but it'll be 2morrow when I get it uploaded just because I have a slow upload speed and it'll be a large file size being an hour long, and I wanna go to bed tonight without my PC being on .


Okay, cool. You're officially King. I'm crowning you. 



Eulonzo said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> Also, is it just me or is Dailymotion's search engine shitty sometimes? I just searched "CM Punk vs" just to see what matches would come up and I got nothing, so I tested it and just put "CM Punk" after and still got nothing.. weird.


Yeah, it sucks. That's why I always use google to search. Type "site:dailymotion.com _______" and you're good to go.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I liked Bryan and Orton's street fight when I watched it on TV, but I liked it significantly less after watching it again on YouTube. That being said, I don't think any of their matches are bad (their match on SD was probably the best), but they don't click at all considering how good they both are on their own.

Since the Internet at my new house is shit compared to the Internet I had in Vegas, I really can't watch full-length matches on YouTube or Dailymotion without constant interruptions, so I usually just wait like a day longer to torrent shit or watch my DVDs :side:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

C2D, did you see my question on page 889?



Srdjan99 said:


> Chria Benoit vs Curt Hennig- WCW Nitro 1997- ***1/2, damn this was a really good match. These two just destroyed each other in a very entertaining match.


Just watched this due to your comments on it. Very enjoyable. Hennig was so versatile, it isn't even funny. Loved seeing him brawl like that, and his selling was still to the same level as it was in his prime. One of the best things I've seen of him in WCW. Maybe the best. Haven't seen a whole lot, though.

Thanks, glad I came across this post!

Also, lol at Flair running at full force, to the point where he basically caught up to Hennig and had to slow down.


Also, it's weird that the announcers can't say PerfectPlex, apparently. Does the WWE own the copyright to the names of moves too, or do they figure it'd be stupid to reference it, since he isn't called Mr. Perfect there? Still, everyone knows who he is, and he had the same exact tights and look and everything, lol.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

got to check that henning/benoit out

Wanted to responded to it a couple pgs ago, I can NEVER get into bret/austin svs 96, the first 10 mins a unbearably boring, Ive ehard if you stick with it its glorious but I never can, prefer wm 13 SOOO much more but I think that is the norm


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LilOlMe said:


> C2D, did you see my question on page 889?


Yeah but I haven't finished the show to comment on that specific match. Already watched it about a year ago, though. Rated it four stars then. We shall see if it remains, goes up or down.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

well that benoit/henning was a slice of heaven, the GOAT chasing henning out of the arena :lmao Naitch


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I watched the Street Fight between Kurt and Shane last night before bed, and holy shit. Especially knowing the exact moment where Kurt (I think) broke his tailbone off a suplex on the floor, it's so much harder to sit through. Then you have Shane making Kurt suplex him through the glass wall until it broke, and falling on his head several times. You can see after Kurt just throws Shane through the glass from the other side after failing to suplex him through (he pretty much said "fuck this"), he wants to pin Shane there and end it and get out, but Chioda made him get back to the ring for the cover. That Angle Slam from the top. :mark:

And I had forgotten that Shane attempted a Shooting Star Press in that match. Even though he missed it, it still looked really clean.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

Metzler Ratings For BattleGround:

Ziggler vs Sandow - **
ADR vs RVD - **3/4
Real Americans vs Santino/Khali - *3/4
Axel vs Truth - **
AJ Lee vs Brie Bella - *1/2
Rhodes vs The Shield - ***
Wyatt vs Kingston - *1/4
Punk vs Ryback - **
Bryan vs Orton - **1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:meltzer steady making himself a fool again with those ratings. According to him, unk5 :rock2 > :rollins :reigns :cody2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JY57 said:


> Metzler Ratings For BattleGround:
> 
> 
> Rhodes vs Shield ***[\QUOTE]
> ...


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Good lord Meltzer's ratings are lol-worthy.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Glad you liked the Hennig match, 'skins!

Meltzer does give descriptions and explanations in his Newsletter, doesn't he?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gotta pay for DEM OPINIONS~! :lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lolMeltzer. Never really cared about his star ratings. Giving that tag match 3 stars is even funnier.

EDIT: Resuming Survivor Series 1996 now. ROCKY MAIVIA debut is coming up! :mark:

And finished downloading that Taker/Angle match, Cal. Quality is off the charts!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Brye said:


> Good lord Meltzer's ratings are lol-worthy.


This is all Meltzer is to me






This has been suck in my head all day, this may be the catchiest theme Ive ever heard


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ hahaha. I was singin that all day the other day. Good shit.

Not sure what everyone's gettin so butthurt about, Meltzer's ratings are pretty much spot on with mine outside of Shield/Rhodes obviously being too low. I actually liked Orton/Bryan from NOC way more than Battleground, and I only have their NOC match at ***. The triple suicide dives part along with a couple other nifty sequences on top of the crowd actually being lively made it much more enjoyable to watch. Battleground was just really fuckin average across the board for me.

HIAC should hopefully blow them both out of the water though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I can't really read a 'review' someone like Meltzer writes. Too serious, like's writing a college essay or something. I mean duh he's gets paid for it and it isn't really something he should take lightly, but I'd rather read someone 'just talk'. As a result he's not really someone I'll listen to. Whenever people start taking the 'reviewing' too seriously it winds up with the same 'this had good psychology back and forth action' stuff. That's why I prefer not to call what I do a 'review'. Maybe I AM reviewing something, but, 'review' sounds off while referencing the quotation marks and cursing that is me babbling about wrestling.

I think a great indication of me just babbling is how that paragraph ended up having nothing to do with Meltzer.  On subject of him: I will absolutely go through a 'star rating archive' of his to find potentially good matches, but I almost ignore the star rating next to it. I found the Regal/Psicosis match from his star rating of it and I will forever be grateful, though had he give it *** instead of ***3/4 (IIRC) I would have watched it all the same. I don't dislike the guy or anything, but I could probably find 100 wrestling board posters from various websites and forums I'd rather read opinions of over Meltzer. Eyyy, maybe not 100. But a bunch.



Cactus Jack said:


> Shit, Cal and Yeah1993 put more work into there reviews and ratings than Metltzer, I'd rather read opinions, reviews, and match ratings on this thread than Meltzer's Observer newsletter any day of the week.


Clearly what this means is I should be paid for my nonsense. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 inspired me to take on a WWE year project like his 2010 version. I think I'm gonna do '08. Lots of stuff I'd like to revisit from that year. My taste in wrestling was a lot different back then, should be interesting to see what holds up and what doesn't. Probably a ton of gems I missed or just wouldn't have appreciated at the time too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nobody does a review like :woolcock does. Shame that he left us. I wanted to talk to him about the awesomeness of Sawyer/Duggan. Maybe also ask about any Magnum TA or Chavo Classic matches to watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Where did WOOLCOCK go?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

He got hired by WWE creative.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

No fuckin way.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah, not sure what exactly he's gonna be doing there but that's sick. They could use someone like him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bryan/ryback smackdown is all that right, dont understand how I have never seen it, just 10 mins of bryan kicking the shit out of ryback. GREAT MATCH


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> bryan/ryback smackdown is all that right, dont understand how I have never seen it, just 10 mins of bryan kicking the shit out of ryback. GREAT MATCH


(Y) 

The Raw match is even better imo.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That RAW match was step one in the main event solidification of Bryan. Although he got crushed at the end, Bryan looked like a star in that match. Surpassed the TLC match as Ryback's best singles match and it might actually be my favorite babyface performance from Bryan this year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea checking it out, very good too, Ill go with sd being slightly better, because they achieved soo much in under 10 mins


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That RAW match was step one in the main event solidification of Bryan. Although he got crushed at the end, Bryan looked like a star in that match. Surpassed the TLC match as Ryback's best singles match and it might actually be my favorite babyface performance from Bryan this year.


Agreed on all counts. Bryan was magnificent in some of the Shield tags but his 6/3 performance against Ryback might be my favorite babyface performance of any wrestler this year with the exception of Ziggler's at Payback.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Yeah1993 inspired me to take on a WWE year project like his 2010 version. I think I'm gonna do '08. Lots of stuff I'd like to revisit from that year. My taste in wrestling was a lot different back then, should be interesting to see what holds up and what doesn't. Probably a ton of gems I missed or just wouldn't have appreciated at the time too.


I might do 2008 as well. I'm going to watch 2008 ECW in full so I figured I might as well tag the rest of the year a long with it (I probably won't, but I want to do an 08 ECW list regardless....actually I might do WWE ECW overall, from 06-10). I won;t do this directly after 2010 as I'd want a change (might finally tackle 80s WWF), but I will do it. I will. 

Shut up, I will.


WOOLCOCK was hired provisionally by a legal firm, btw.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Maybe also ask about any Magnum TA or Chavo Classic matches to watch.


Pretty much anything. Can't remember a mediocre match from either guy.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is a 2010 post coming tonight?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Depends what 'tonight' is for you (IDR which country you live in ), but either way, dunno. I might start watching Mania later, but I don't want to post anything on it until I've finished the whole show (will hopefully have done by 24 hours time). Could watch a few matches from TV, like that ECW tag Cal really loves.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Are you selectively picking the TV matches you want to watch or going through the full shows?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well at least SummerSlam SUCCESFULLY built itself off of both guys' strenghts - all-out over-the-top brawling. Backlash not even that achieved, Cal. :side:

And I can say now that this may be Ausschwitz for any and every wrestling fan outside of the WF. My young brother is starting to watch wrestling now, and I showed him Angle/Benoit RR for Christ sakes and he fucking loved it. He'll be heartbroken when he arrives here and gets his ass handed by y'all when he discovers that match actually sucks


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS did something successfully? Huh, never saw that part. I just saw shitty brawling, botches and a whole load of fuckery 8*D.

After I ripped Undertaker/Angle SD 03 to upload for C2D last night, I decided to watch it while it was there. My god that match is still glorious. Give me a clean finish and I'd have throw the full 5* at it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like the Bossman match over the two I named.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> I like the Bossman match over the two I named.


That's only because you suck .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not as much as those two matches. :hayley3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well that's not even opinion, that's just WTF are you on, Paramore fan. Bossman HIAC was a CRIME to Taker's legacy ffs. I'll gladly watch Taker/Austin BL over that.



Callamus said:


> SS did something successfully? Huh, never saw that part. *I just saw shitty brawling, botches and a whole load of fuckery 8*D.*


Exactly. FUCKERY. :


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> Not as much as those two matches. :hayley3


Ouch. You got me, good sir! 

When I can be arsed, I'm gonna get off my arse and dig out my Backlash 2001 DVD :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Bossman was just dull. Give me that over Austin acting like the biggest moron ever seen & Triple H _(and sadly Taker)_ milking it like they're 80 years old in some shitty forced epic, all day; every day.

Had a near mental breakdown the last time I watched WrestleMania 27 b/c that match was such a horrendous pile of shit. Blood is already boiling. *HATE.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 27 is awesome so fuck you .

You want BAD HHH/Undertaker matches? Go watch their shite from 2002 :|.

In fact, don't. STAY AWAY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No sir, Taker/Trips was HOW YOU TELL A FUCKING STORY 101 :taker :HHH

Though the WM 28 HIAC was still much better. _My favourite Streak match ever, fuck y'all _:side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm right there with Hayley, Undertaker is #3 on my all time list, behind only Foley and Eddie, and one spot ahead of Benoit. I love everything about the Undertaker, and it disappoints me to no end knowing WM27 exists, and not only that, but having to hear Taker put that match over as greatness in the Trips DVD just made me feel queasy. I feel guilty for not only disliking it, but outright hating it.

Wm28 was better, but I can't go above ***3/4 for that one either. I'll take the Punk, Edge, Batista, Wm17 Trips, even the Orton streak matches over 27-28 any day. I just don't see why people heap ***** praise on those ones. But eh, that's life. 

Boss man HIAC is trash too, of the same ilk at BL02'. 

What match has Undertaker had that disappointed me more than any other? Easy, vs Kane HiaC. That's a dream match for a lot of people, and it was so dull I nearly fell asleep.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Any thoughts on the Taker/Ortons handicap match from Unforgiven?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Srdjan99 said:


> Any thoughts on the Taker/Ortons handicap match from Unforgiven?


You mean No Mercy? 

It's fucking AWESOME. ****1/4 for it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why I felt Undertaker's 2002 in the first half hit a bit of a snag. The matches vs Austin & Triple H. MY EYES. Man had a better match with Maven Huffman than he did vs those two.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh I'm on 28's side because of bias mostly. It was my first live (not really live, the first WM I watched as it happened :side WM, and that shit blew the fuck me away to the point that I'll NEVER be able to see it as it truly is. I just can't.

And Srdjan, you mean No Mercy 05  Yeah, that was GOOD. Orton was awesome coming up with everything up his sleeve.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm right there with Hayley, Undertaker is #3 on my all time list, behind only Foley and Eddie, and one spot ahead of Benoit. I love everything about the Undertaker, and it disappoints me to no end knowing WM27 exists, and not only that, but having to hear Taker put that match over as greatness in the Trips DVD just made me feel queasy. I feel guilty for not only disliking it, but outright hating it.
> 
> Wm28 was better, but I can't go above ***3/4 for that one either. I'll take the Punk, Edge, Batista, Wm17 Trips, even the Orton streak matches over 27-28 any day. I just don't see why people heap ***** praise on those ones. But eh, that's life.
> 
> ...


I like the WM HIAC match, but I don't think it's great either. Taker's destruction in the first ten minutes was though.

HIAC vs Kane. Man, that's a bummer. At least we got the awesome NOC match & fun Buried Alive one following. I'm still a fan of that program. idc. Kane's promos during that period in 2010 were wicked strong. MY BROTHER.



Srdjan99 said:


> Any thoughts on the Taker/Ortons handicap match from Unforgiven?


Never been much of a fan, tbhayley. All the other Orton matches though - incredible.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Callamus said:


> You mean No Mercy?
> 
> It's fucking AWESOME. ****1/4 for it.


Thanks, seen it on the WWE YT channel and decided to watch it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LOVE the whole program between Kane and Undertaker in 2010. Just a shame the matches blew outside of the NOC match. BA could have been better if Undertaker wasn't fucked going into it. And if they didn't do the bullshitty Nexus finish. LOLNEXUS. They died at SummerSlam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I saw WM14 live, as in my pops took me and my best friend to Boston, and I STILL don't like the HBK vs SCSA match. When I saw it live. Yea I was going absolutely nuts, one of the craziest atmospheres I've ever been involved in that wasn't a Dillinger Escape Plan or On Broken Wings concert.

When I got it on DVD and rewatched it about 2 years later, utter disappointment. I remembered it being so much better. Can't blame the guys tho because Shawn's back was in horrible shape.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I just rewatched the best pre-show match yet, Shield/Usos, and it kinda went down on me. Even though intelligently worked, it wasn't until the latter half of the action after the 1st break that things started to get HOT. Then it just got fucking NUTS. Shield gon' be Shield. Still at ***1/2.

For some reason I wanna rewatch the All Stars MITB now. On first watch, I had it LOW. Hated it. But then, I realized this actually was more than just another MITB - it had a methodical and active story along the way that was told beautifully, and I raised the whole thing to ***3/4 (not joking). Let's see if it holds up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Finish to the Buried Alive match made NO sense, but I still think the match is good. 

NOC was their best effort. Undertaker was 100% healthy, it showed, and there were no shenanigans put forth. Purely those two kicking the crap out of each other. The best possible scenario.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Plus their feud gave us a super awesome Punk/Taker match on SD :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The long one & not the match where Undertaker basically squashes him after joining up with Paul Bearer again, right? 8*D

I like 'em both so, yay!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't remember the squash one .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's on the LIVE Super Smackdown move thingy to SyFy right before HIAC. Punk cuts an interview backstage wearing a _"It's cool to be drug free"_ Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shirt. 

I love this man. 100% ****. What.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Piper V Bret Hart WM 8 ****

Fuck this match is great. The whole of story of Piper not giving in to his heel tendencies because of its his final fight, but not heeling out when he had the chance cost him the match makes this bout really memorable and elevates it to a near WM classic.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey Cal, is this the Taker/Angle match you were pimping a few pages ago?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jkCy3UXrfH0

I'm a big fan of their match at NWO 2006, if this is better it's jumping to the top of my "Must Watch" pile.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Smackdown '03 match is WAY better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cactus Jack said:


> Hey Cal, is this the Taker/Angle match you were pimping a few pages ago?
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jkCy3UXrfH0
> 
> I'm a big fan of their match at NWO 2006, if this is better it's jumping to the top of my "Must Watch" pile.


Aye, that's the one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I prefer sd 03 >>>>>>> nwo 06


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Looking through Amazon to improve my collection, Summerslam 04 or NWO 06?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD 03 > NWO 06 > SD 06 > SvS 00 > the rest


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raging Eboue said:


> Looking through Amazon to improve my collection, Summerslam 04 or NWO 06?


Both are really 2 match shows:

NWO

Rey/Orton - ****1/4
Angle/Undertaker - ****3/4

SS

JBL/Taker - ***3/4
Orton/Benoit - ****1/4

So personally I'd go NWO 06 lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Both are really 2 match shows:
> 
> NWO
> 
> ...



Didn't Summerslam 2004 have Trips/Eugene? That was a fun match.


Edit-Cal you said SD03>NWO, but you gave NWO ****3/4? This must be one AMAZING match, I can't wait to get home from work to see it :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its amusing but nothing I'd point to as good or anything to convince someone to buy the show .


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

Just thought fuck it and got both anyway, Is the cruisrweight match from NWO any good?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raging Eboue said:


> Just thought fuck it and got both anyway, Is the cruisrweight match from NWO any good?


Its a fun spot fest, one of the better "guys go out and throw moves at each other" match in WWE imo. Around *** for it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Its a fun spot fest, one of the better "guys go out and throw moves at each other" match in WWE imo. Around *** for it.


The best example of that sort of match is Tajiri-Xpac from Summerslam. That match was flashy as hell and so much damn fun. Loved it.

You can do that kind of match well, and you can do it in a nonsensical, stupid, mindless way. Tajiri/Xpac did it in the best way possible for that match. Sneaky all time great Cruiserweight match for me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk wearing a drug free ninja turtles shirt makes me warm and tingly inside, and makes me love him even more. I dont remember it but that honestly could be the GOAT shirt from the description. Only shirt I can think is better is the Kelly Kapowski one, YES I DO OWN ONE top 10 show IMO

Back to wrestling


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Haven't seen Tajiri/X-Pac in a while now (sooon though), but I wouldn't have called it a spotty move fest kind of match or anything. I shall see when I get to SS, once I watched Backlash (still not moved that far to get the DVD lol).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tajiri vs X-Pac is just a fast paced storm of great wrestling.

SummerSlam 2004 is a fine enough show if you don't watch Cena vs Booker, the triple threat, or, _*shudders*_ Eddie vs Angle. Has two great matches on it, so that's a prize. 

NWO '06 is solid, but overrated in terms of the over-under. Orton vs Mysterio is worth owning the show for. Then the icing on the cake in having a really good Undertaker match be the follow up. Just don't expect much from Benoit vs Booker. Awful.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Uploading the HHH/Benoit Iron Man for C2D, and while I was on my DM account I decided to get a list of everything I have on there + links:



Spoiler: DM vids



The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Smackdown 04/09/2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4LZRH02Lko6Xl4KhjX (Private)

John Cena vs. CM Punk_ Raw, Feb. 25, 2013 (Full-Length Match

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6qIm66LHeDRvu4xq1B (Private)

Regal & Finlay Vs Hardy & Gunner SD June 16 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kmKoEvKRDF95r44q35D (Private)

William Regal Vs Kassuis Ohno - NXT April 11th 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6IcZhWpO1ovAG3YaSR (Private)

The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nurnberg Germany 08.11.2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k66b627YjNUJ673VyRC (Private)

Cena Vs Umaga Raw July 17th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj9dd_cena-vs-umaga-raw-july-17th-2006_sport

Cena Vs Shelton Raw July 10th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyj970_cena-vs-shelton-raw-july-10th-2006_sport

Piper Story (Funny story from a legends of wrestling roundtable)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxu6hk_piper-story_sport

Finlay Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 09.03.2007

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2y8khvvZHfJ7V3OaDW

The Shield - Smackdown 18.01.2013 (Promo)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1wigayEocztdP3JP6w (Private)

Damien Sandow & Antonio Cesaro Vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT 16.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k40j4sJy4tuRnO3JvwI (Private)

Team Hell No & Dr Shelby - Raw 14.01.2013 (Promo)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3Ujo7PUTylQGo3J269 (Private)

Big Show & Antonio Cesaro Vs Sheamus & Randy Orton - Smackdown 04.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k1mHP3NbZDkyZS3ISrV (Private)

CM Punk Vs Ryback - TLC - Raw 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kaX2WNpbJJPq6s3ISg3 (Private)

John Cena Vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4E1rKKACxspxV3IRXZ (Private)

Devon Vs Joseph Park - TNA Genesis 13/01/2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3EmJCuv7f1cC03IQmZ (Private)

The Big Show Vs Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing - Smackdown 11.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/keFHQZ8bHKCpZt3IEBi (Private)

Sheamus Vs Dolph Ziggler - Main Event 09.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k44l3OiQD9gZht3I6qZ (Private)

Punk & Rock promo 07.01.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7zeGj30ihkuzs3HFD6 (Private)

Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Dean malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - WWF Sunday Night Heat April 23rd 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw...u-wwf-sunday-night-heat-april-23rd-2000_sport

Scott Steiner Vs Cruiserweights - WCW Nitro Feb 5th 2001

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xw5kvn_scott-steiner-vs-cruiserweights-wcw-nitro-feb-5th-2001_sport

HHH Vs Big Show - Raw Feb 13th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvyws9_hhh-vs-big-show-raw-feb-13th-2006_sport

Triple H Vs Ric Flair - WWE Raw Febuary 6th 2006

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvuvhw_triple-h-vs-ric-flair-wwe-raw-febuary-6th-2006_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 12/10/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvtz6e_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-12-10-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Spectrum – 12/18/88)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu017_rockers-vs-brainbusters-spectrum-12-18-88_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 1/13/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu109_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-1-13-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 1/23/89, audio issues)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu256_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-1-23-89-audio-issues_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (LA Sports Arena – 1/29/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu328_rockers-vs-brainbusters-la-sports-arena-1-29-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Superstars – 2/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu3b4_rockers-vs-brainbusters-superstars-2-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 3/11/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu43q_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-3-11-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (MSG – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu4mc_rockers-vs-brainbusters-msg-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Boston Garden – 3/18/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu56g_rockers-vs-brainbusters-boston-garden-3-18-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (Prime Time Wrestling – 3/27/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu5ve_rockers-vs-brainbusters-prime-time-wrestling-3-27-89_sport

Rockers vs. Brainbusters (SNME – 11/25/89)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvu69j_rockers-vs-brainbusters-snme-11-25-89_sport

Windham Vs Tenryu

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xuty9o_windham-vs-tenryu_sport

Mr Perfect Vs Ronnie Garvin MSG March 1989

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xthl0y_mr-perfect-vs-ronnie-garvin-msg-march-1989_sport

Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal No DQ - WCW Main Event 8.8.93

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo...teven-regal-no-dq-wcw-main-event-8-8-93_sport

Dusty gets distracted (funny comentary)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkxkqh_dusty-gets-distracted_shortfilms

Bret Hart & British Bulldog Vs Owen Hart & Jim Neidhart from 19th October 1994

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbxrwx_bret-hart-british-bulldog-vs-owen-h_sport

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 CD1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbukoi_arn-anderson-vs-steven-regal-wcw-su_sport

Arn Anderson Vs Steven Regal - WCW Superbrawl 20.02.1994 CD2

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbulcn_arn-anderson-vs-steven-regal-wcw-su_sport

Lesnar meets CM Punk and Mr Kennedy on SD in 2003

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8xmjt_lesnar-meets-cm-punk-and-mr-kennedy_sport

Dean Malenko Vs Taka Michinoku - Smackdown April 6th 2000

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y8nk_dean-malenko-vs-taka-michinoku-smac_sport



Just don't go spreading around the private links, we'll keep em for just us lol. Less chance of them being removes... though not sure DM give a fuck .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:mark:HHH:mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally dug out my BL 01 DVD. Ripping it onto my PC to watch instead of using the disc, as I cba taking out all the fecking DVD's again to put it back (my DVD cabinet thingy isn't long, instead it's deep, and since I have my PPV's in order the early ones are right at the back with 2 more rows of DVD's in front lol) .

Hmmmm while I've got all my DVD's out I'm gonna need to check to see if I have the EC set or not. If not I'll be browsing ebay and amazon for a bargain


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:mark: :mark: at all those Rockers/Brainbusters matches. I've seen two of them and they are absolutely wonderful. The Brainbusters + Heenan on the outside= on of the most underrated tag duos ever. Those guys knew how to get some heat, and Marty and Shawn were regular a Robert and Rickey with their FIP in those matches. Classic tag team wrestling formula is the recipe for greatness, I never get tired of it.

Edit- Cal. Please, I'm begging you, if you do a review of BL01' PLEASE make a gif of that Regal face when he lands in the Duchess' lap. Please. You'll be my hero forever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll make it . Was most likely gonna be the GIF I use in the review, unless I find something else. Was unable to find anything I wanted to use in the last couple I did lol.

Turns out I don't own the EC set. Shall see about getting it cheap, though I'm wondering if I should bother. I have SVS 02, NYR 05, NYR 06, DTD 06 and NWO 08 on DVD so really as far as quality chamber matches go I'm only missing NWO 09, and then SS 03 and EC '10 and honestly I could live without those and just pick up NWO 09 for cheaper probably .


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just been thinking about how Cena Vs Del Rio will be AMAZING come Hell in a Cell; Alberto's strength as the vicious bodypart hacking heel, Cena at his best playing the role of the damaged hero, it's a match made in heaven honestly. I'm expecting a Cena-Jericho Survivor Series thing here if given the time by the two men, Cena and Del Rio have had great matches in the past but Del Rio is on his A game so this could be even better.

Watching HHH Vs Randy Orton @ The Rumble now. LOL @ Orton getting beaten down the entire match while the crowd chanted "RANDY SUCKS" :lol.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Watching Goldberg's Blu Ray.

Really fun watch. The atmosphere for his matches are incredible. But damn was he fucking GREEN for his first few matches.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay so I just finished up HHH-Orton from the Rumble and I'm kind of amazed, because the whole match is essentially HHH squashing Orton for 20 minutes with a bunch of vicious clotheslines, strikes, illegal shit, etc. The amount of offense Orton got in this match was minimal as fuck, but HHH's heeldom in this was so fucking good that it just made this match awesome at times. When HHH chokes the shit out of Orton and stomps his head post concussion it's just bossy as hell. Thank God Orton went heel after this, he would have never survived in the E as a face at this point despite being hot at one point. As for this match; the pacing got bad at times but I thought it was good enough to support the story they were trying to tell, and at times this match is actually great.

**** 1/4*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Okay so I just finished up HHH-Orton from the Rumble and I'm kind of amazed, because the whole match is essentially HHH squashing Orton for 20 minutes with a bunch of vicious clotheslines, strikes, illegal shit, etc. The amount of offense Orton got in this match was minimal as fuck, but HHH's heeldom in this was so fucking good that it just made this match awesome at times. When HHH chokes the shit out of Orton and stomps his head post concussion it's just bossy as hell. Thank God Orton went heel after this, he would have never survived in the E as a face at this point despite being hot at one point. As for this match; the pacing got bad at times but I thought it was good enough to support the story they were trying to tell, and at times this match is actually great.
> 
> **** 1/4*


Well damn, I like a HHH match more than you. And not something like HHH Vs Undertaker where my Undertaker love makes your HHH love look shit either... but a fucking HHH Vs RANDY "MAKES ME WANNA STAB MYSELF IN THE FACE" ORTON match!!!


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Watched the first disc of the Goldberg Blu-ray, and it's honestly everything I hoped it would be. For me, this is a set that not only I've wanted to see for years, but became probably one of my most anticipated buys ever simply because the match listing was amazingly comprehensive. I was afraid that I might be Goldberg-ed out by the end, but while I was tired from watching wrestling for 4 1/2 hours, I still really enjoyed the sets.

Favorite matches:

-vs. Raven
-vs. Sting (Nitro)
-vs. DDP (Halloween Havoc)
-vs. Nash (Starrcade)
-vs. Sid (Halloween Havoc)
-vs. Steiner

The DDP match feels HUGE because it's his first title shot, he's super over, and the diamond cutter comes out of nowhere. The respect at the end is great, what an awesome main event.

I personally like the Nash match, and now actually see that the timing was right for Goldberg to lose.

The Sid match is so intense, so bloody, so much fun.

The match against Steiner is one of the best "power" matches ever.

The tag match succeeds in really showing Goldberg getting screwed at the end. Luger and Bagwell do everything they can, and you Goldberg is f*cked.


His early matches did their job, the worst is against McMichael, and every rematch is never as good as the first (Nash, DDP, Sting, Sid), but this is a phenomenal set, and I can't wait to watch disc 2.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Was just gonna ask if the DDP Nitro match is on the set, then I noticed something about rematches and DDP's name being mentioned... so is it the Nitro match or did they have another PPV match that's on the set instead (buggered if I can remember WCW rematches lol)?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> And I can say now that this may be Ausschwitz for any and every wrestling fan outside of the WF. My young brother is starting to watch wrestling now, and I showed him Angle/Benoit RR for Christ sakes and he fucking loved it. He'll be heartbroken when he arrives here and gets his ass handed by y'all when he discovers that match actually sucks


He'll be fine. I'll take him under my wing and let him know how to enjoy a match properly. 



Callamus said:


> After I ripped Undertaker/Angle SD 03 to upload for C2D last night, I decided to watch it while it was there. My god that match is still glorious. Give me a clean finish and I'd have throw the full 5* at it.


It's absolutely GLORIOUS. I still have No Way Out over it but it's a close second and with a clean finish, it would've been likely to battle Austin/Benoit for the greatest Smackdown match imo.



Srdjan99 said:


> Any thoughts on the Taker/Ortons handicap match from Unforgiven?


As pointed out, No Mercy. And like damn near everyone here has said, it's great. Probably my favorite match from their series in 2005. Not the BEST, that'd be Armageddon, but rather the one I have a blast watching.



Raging Eboue said:


> Just thought fuck it and got both anyway, Is the cruisrweight match from NWO any good?


Great choice. Worth owning just for Orton/Benoit, Orton/Rey and Taker/Angle.



Callamus said:


> Uploading the HHH/Benoit Iron Man for C2D, and while I was on my DM account I decided to get a list of everything I have on there + links:


YES!



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> :mark:HHH:mark:


Awesome promo by both. It's funny to go back and read various forums and see them whine about Orton's mic skills for some unknown reason even though he did just fine here and everywhere else.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Well damn, I like a HHH match more than you. And not something like HHH Vs Undertaker where my Undertaker love makes your HHH love look shit either... but a fucking HHH Vs RANDY "MAKES ME WANNA STAB MYSELF IN THE FACE" ORTON match!!!


IDK it's just the HHH/Orton matches I've watched recently haven't held up as well for me. I still really like that match but not as much as I used to, Unforgiven & RAW 2005 matches didn't hold up either.

I like HHH Vs Undertaker from Wrestlemania XXVII more than anybody though .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I like HHH Vs Undertaker from Wrestlemania XXVII more than anybody though .


That sir, sounds like a CHALLENGE to me!


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched an okay HHH/Flair Vs Orton/HBK tag where the GOATS had some awesome control time but other than that the match wasn't special at all. Now it's on to HHH Vs Edge in Japan, something I've been meaning to watch for a while now, heel Vs heel but it was still pretty good the last time I saw it. 

Taker-HHH is my match. I actually think HHH is better in the match too .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker's selling MAKES that match .


----------



## BGLWrestlingGod (Apr 25, 2007)

Callamus said:


> Was just gonna ask if the DDP Nitro match is on the set, then I noticed something about rematches and DDP's name being mentioned... so is it the Nitro match or did they have another PPV match that's on the set instead (buggered if I can remember WCW rematches lol)?


 Sorry, the DDP rematch is the one from Fall Brawl in 1999. DDP was a heel and part of the Jersey Triad. It's not nearly as good as Halloween Havoc, but any DDP/Goldberg is better than none.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Half of the match is Undertaker lying around and HHH selling the match with his various expressions .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BGLWrestlingGod said:


> Sorry, the DDP rematch is the one from Fall Brawl in 1999. DDP was a heel and part of the Jersey Triad. It's not nearly as good as Halloween Havoc, but any DDP/Goldberg is better than none.


Bah. The Nitro match is pretty damn great. Similar to HH but still awesome to watch, just with a shitty finish.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Half of the match is Undertaker lying around and HHH selling the match with his various expressions .


And Undertaker lying around > HHH making faces 8*D.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

HHH Vs Edge in Japan is actually really fucking good. Edge is almost like the default face here going up against HHH, and HHH uses all of the heel tactics in his book to pull out the victory, ultimately using Batista's help at the end of the match to win it. The only problem here is that there isn't really a face in peril, meaning that the match doesn't really work in theory because there's no real heat to it, I guess if you like either or. It's still really fucking good though, HHH's shit is always boss in 2005. 

*** 3/4*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ziggler/fella 1/9/13 ***1/2-3/4

-went alittle down but is still a good match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Callamus said:


> And Undertaker making people think he was legit dying in the ring >HHH making faces 8*D.


Fixed.


----------



## OML (Feb 14, 2009)

If I was gonna buy 5 Ppv DVDs from amazon from the year 09-11which do u suggest. Other than like wm and summerslam


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> HHH Vs Edge in Japan is actually really fucking good. Edge is almost like the default face here going up against HHH, and HHH uses all of the heel tactics in his book to pull out the victory, ultimately using Batista's help at the end of the match to win it. The only problem here is that there isn't really a face in peril, meaning that the match doesn't really work in theory because there's no real heat to it, I guess if you like either or. It's still really fucking good though, HHH's shit is always boss in 2005.
> 
> *** 3/4*


I remember watching that match for my Trips project, but I can't remember if they were teasing Batista's face turn there or not. Wasn't it after the Rumble?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Both wrestlers spamming the hell out of their finishers and just laying around not doing shit=godawful shitty match, not good storytelling.



Fixed. 

I own the Streak DVD, probably my most watched set after Tombstone, Eddies, and Foleys. Watched that match once live, hated it, watched it again when I got it, was appalled by the awfulness, won't ever watch that shit again. I prefer to remember the Undertaker as the most dominant, bad ass big man wrestler the world has ever seen. Not as Triple H's bitch in a shitty match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Only ***1/4 from me for the Taker/Ortons Handicap Casket Match. It was a fun match, but the whole Taker is dead moments seems so washed-up that they are not entertaining any more. Still a pretty nice match


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Only ***1/4 from me for the Taker/Ortons Handicap Casket Match. It was a fun match, but the whole Taker is dead moments seems so washed-up that they are not entertaining any more. Still a pretty nice match


Undertaker isn't actually dead? 

No seriously, you take that back. The Undertaker gimmick will never be "washed up" and that match is fucking awesome, just watched it 2 days ago as a matter of fact while going threw the entire Orton/Taker series. Still holds up beautiful. Ortons best series ever.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Their WM and Summerslam matches were very good, but this Casket match really was not that good as i thought it would be after I have seen the praise it received. I didn't say that Taker's gimmick is washed-up, only this he's dead and next night he is back shit, it really annoyed me back then and it annoys me now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He wasn't back the next night. He was back the next PPV 8*D.

Undertaker/Orton series:

HIAC - ****1/2
SS - ****1/4
Casket - ****1/4
WM - ****1/4
SD - ***3/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I really feel like undertaking a project. I know a lot of people will just be like "JUST DO WHATEVER YOU ENJOY FLUX" but I'll ask anyway: Any suggestions for what I should do? I don't really feel like doing a whole year, or a whole wrestling career, but nothing too small either.

SUGGESTIONS?!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FluxCapacitor said:


> I really feel like undertaking a project. I know a lot of people will just be like "JUST DO WHATEVER YOU ENJOY FLUX" but I'll ask anyway: Any suggestions for what I should do? I don't really feel like doing a whole year, or a whole wrestling career, but nothing too small either.
> 
> SUGGESTIONS?!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Benoit Iron Man http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6UehTJVYk4kJj4Ktiu (Private Link so don't spread it around bitches!!!)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> HHH/Benoit Iron Man http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6UehTJVYk4kJj4Ktiu (Private Link so don't spread it around bitches!!!)


Holy fuck, that's awesome quality. :mark:

Was pretty much my wish to get some of these 2004 Raw matches in high quality since the full shows that are out there have pretty shit quality.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Crazy how some of the wrestling online is shit quality when it's available in excellent quality at the same time. My Raw 06 downloads are SHIT really, some are god awful quality... yet there are straight to DVD recordings available.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Christian and Rey Mysterio are set to return sometime this month, Cena's returning at HIAC, Evan Bourne will hopefully come back before I turn 30, and Tyson Kidd's been working house shows. Come on WWE, give me DAT WORKRATE! 

Since I'm pretty much done with school for the week, I'll finally be able to watch my Extreme Rules 2012 DVD after I fuck around in GTA Online for a bit :mark:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'm going to have to watch HHH/Taker WM27 again to finally reach a firm conclusion on the damn thing. But hey, I'd much rather do some financial accounting while Raw 2004 plays in the background 8*D. Speaking of which, DAT LEGEND KILLER ORTON. Guy was on fire character and ring wise. Brilliant promo work for the Foley program and then the main event match with RVD. Awesome stuff. Trips/HBK also have a KILLER promo on this show too. It's the one where HBK kicks Coach and they do the whole 1 second build for the LMS match. Cool beans. I'm talking about the Jan 12th 2004 Raw here btw.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

PGSucks said:


> Christian and Rey Mysterio are set to return sometime this month, Cena's returning at HIAC, Evan Bourne will hopefully come back before I turn 30, and Tyson Kidd's been working house shows. Come on WWE, give me DAT WORKRATE!
> 
> Since I'm pretty much done with school for the week, I'll finally be able to watch my Extreme Rules 2012 DVD after I fuck around in GTA Online for a bit :mark:


Tyson Kidd wrestles on SD this week . Just not as himself .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Crazy how some of the wrestling online is shit quality when it's available in excellent quality at the same time. My Raw 06 downloads are SHIT really, some are god awful quality... yet there are straight to DVD recordings available.


After 2006, most of the videos online ceased to be in shit quality it seems. It looks like Raw usually has the worse quality whereas most Smackdowns even from 2004 are consistently decent.



Starbuck said:


> I'm going to have to watch HHH/Taker WM27 again to finally reach a firm conclusion on the damn thing. But hey, I'd much rather do some financial accounting while Raw 2004 plays in the background 8*D. Speaking of which, DAT LEGEND KILLER ORTON. Guy was on fire character and ring wise. *Brilliant promo work for the Foley program* and then the main event match with RVD. Awesome stuff. Trips/HBK also have a KILLER promo on this show too. It's the one where HBK kicks Coach and they do the whole 1 second build for the LMS match. Cool beans.


lol, isn't that the one where he botches badly? He screwed up a line and said "I'm gonna start what I finished" (as opposed to "finish what I started") and it led to some of the internet community to whine about him consistently for years just because of that one screw-up.

He makes up for it with that awesome RVD match, though. I'm always pimpin' that one around here.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> After 2006, most of the videos online ceased to be in shit quality it seems. It looks like Raw usually has the worse quality whereas most Smackdowns even from 2004 are consistently decent.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If he botched I never noticed.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

IRON MAN MATCH :mark:.

Gonna watch that shit now for my HHH watchings.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I wish I could watch it . Maybe at the weekend. I want to actually watch it rather than just have it as background noise so now is not the time unfortunately. 

I forgot to say though, the history of WWE doc looks AMAZING. 3 hours? I'm game for that. Match list looks like a bunch of shit. Sick of them putting repeats on all their sets but I'm definitely interested for the doc alone.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Okay so I just finished up HHH-Orton from the Rumble and I'm kind of amazed, because the whole match is essentially HHH squashing Orton for 20 minutes with a bunch of vicious clotheslines, strikes, illegal shit, etc. The amount of offense Orton got in this match was minimal as fuck, but HHH's heeldom in this was so fucking good that it just made this match awesome at times. When HHH chokes the shit out of Orton and stomps his head post concussion it's just bossy as hell. Thank God Orton went heel after this, he would have never survived in the E as a face at this point despite being hot at one point. As for this match; the pacing got bad at times but I thought it was good enough to support the story they were trying to tell, and at times this match is actually great.
> 
> **** 1/4*


Was interested in hearing your perspective on this. Glad to read this, though I'd rate the match higher. All the things you're saying about it being a 20 minute squash are true, but I think that it worked great within the context of the story. Definitely my favorite of theirs, IIRC.




Choke2Death said:


> EDIT: Resuming Survivor Series 1996 now. ROCKY MAIVIA debut is coming up! :mark:


Did you ever end up watching the rest? lol. Post your thoughts once you do!




Callamus said:


> He wasn't back the next night. He was back the next PPV 8*D.
> 
> Undertaker/Orton series:
> 
> ...


Here's how I'd rate them:

1)Orton vs Undertaker (HIAC) - Armageddon 2005 - **** 1/4 - **** 1/2 (on a good day for the latter. The cinematic quality bumps it up).

2)Orton vs Undertaker – SummerSlam 2005 - ****.

3)Orton & "Cowboy" Bob Orton vs Undertaker (Handicap Casket) – No Mercy 2005 - *** 3/4 - ****.

4)Orton vs Undertaker - Wrestlemania 21 - *** 3/4.

5)Orton vs Undertaker – Smackdown, 16 September 2005 - *** 1/2.

As you can see, I think that all are quite good and/or entertaining matches.

From a sheer wrestling perspective, I think that SS was probably their best and most smartly wrestled match, and I have a feeling I'd go higher on it, if I watched it again.

The handicap match was the most fun match to me.

I can understand the annoyance with the Undertaker shtick, regarding the aftermath of the Casket match. I was more judging the actual match as a whole throughout, ignoring the shtickier stuff of the aftermath.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Taker's Deadman schtick can be repetitive yes. Having said that, I'd LOVE to see Taker and Wyatt mix it up in a program. The promos alone would be crazy good.


----------



## OML (Feb 14, 2009)

OML said:


> If I was gonna buy 5 Ppv DVDs from amazon from the year 09-11which do u suggest. Other than like wm and summerslam


.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> If he botched I never noticed.


Neither did I the first time. Until I looked through wrestling forums of the past and saw so many Orton haters mention it in order to justify their (irrational) hatred for him. He even corrects himself in the next segment when offering Foley a limo ride. Something like "Come on, let's finish what we started".



LilOlMe said:


> Did you ever end up watching the rest? lol. Post your thoughts once you do!


Nah, was too slow and managed to just finish the third elimination tag before going to bed. Will continue it now and finish the thing once and for all. Bret vs Austin is up next. Review of whole show will be posted when I'm done.

Ratings for Orton/Taker matches:

Wrestlemania: ★★★★
SummerSlam: ★★★★ - ★★★★¼
Smackdown: ★★★¾ - ★★★★
No Mercy: ★★★★¼
Armageddon: ★★★★½


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Taker/Orton series:

Wrestlemania - *** 1/2
Summerslam - ****
Smackdown - *** 3/4
No Mercy Handicap Casket - *** 1/2
Armageddon HIAC - N/A (honestly not sure if I've ever seen the whole thing )



ATF said:


> I just rewatched the best pre-show match yet, Shield/Usos, and it kinda went down on me. Even though intelligently worked, it wasn't until the latter half of the action after the 1st break that things started to get HOT. Then it just got fucking NUTS. Shield gon' be Shield. Still at ***1/2.
> 
> For some reason I wanna rewatch the All Stars MITB now. On first watch, I had it LOW. Hated it. But then, I realized this actually was more than just another MITB - it had a methodical and active story along the way that was told beautifully, and I raised the whole thing to ***3/4 (not joking). Let's see if it holds up.


I echo both of these thoughts pretty much exactly. I wasn't very happy when they clipped Shield/Usos in half on the MITB blu ray, but whatever. Got the hot ending but about none of middle. I'm the same way on the MITB All Stars, went from ** all the way up to *** 1/2. I really LOVE that ppv. 



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Just been thinking about how Cena Vs Del Rio will be AMAZING come Hell in a Cell; Alberto's strength as the vicious bodypart hacking heel, Cena at his best playing the role of the damaged hero, it's a match made in heaven honestly. I'm expecting a Cena-Jericho Survivor Series thing here if given the time by the two men, Cena and Del Rio have had great matches in the past but Del Rio is on his A game so this could be even better.


Funny you bring this up as I actually went on Cena's twitter and looked at the pictures he posted of the injured arm and realized it's the LEFT arm, which is exactly the one Del Rio works on. :mark: So stoked for that match. Really hoping Del Rio finds a way to win...



OML said:


> If I was gonna buy 5 Ppv DVDs from amazon from the year 09-11which do u suggest. Other than like wm and summerslam


No Way Out 2009
Backlash 2009
Money in the Bank 2011
Extreme Rules 2011
Night of Champions 2011

Can't go wrong with Summerslam 2009 or 2011, and of course Wrestlemania 26. I'm not a big fan of 2010 ppvs from the ones I've seen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm hoping Cena takes the title actually, he can add some legitimacy to the damn thing so when he drops it to someone, it will actually mean something. Nothing against ADR, who is a great wrestler, but his reign isn't helping the notion that the WHC is just a mid card belt. Cena pimping it for a few months could do wonders for it.

That said, I hope he stays the fuck away from the WWE championship for a while, unless he's jobbing to Bryan and putting him over as the champ he deserves to be.

One thing that can never be said about Cena, the dude isn't selfish. He put Punk over for a solid year and pretty much single handedly made him. Not trips though, that Haitch just couldn't resist going over Punk and cooling his jets, it actually makes me laugh now thinking about the whole situation.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone else think that Cena being inserted right into the WHC picture was all set up HHH because it's BEST FOR BUSINESS and keeps Cena away from the WWE title? Storyline wise of course . That's what I thought when it was announced. Keep Cena occupied with the WHC while HHH can try and control the WWE title.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just wondering but can someone tell me (hopefully in detail) how DX was in 2009 or whenever it was they made their little comeback? Just curious because I stopped watching wrestling before all that and I wonder if they watered it down to death because it was the PG era (and I don't just mean toning down/stopping the profanity and vulgarness).


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Hope Cena does win. Del Rio is the most bland, boring, dull, unremarkable, overpushed, repetitive, stale, uninteresting world champion ever. 

No one gives a fuck about the guy except Vince who must be a closet homosexual for him because theres nothing else to justify the push he's gotten.

He's good in the ring? fuck cares? so is Curtis Axel.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Taker/Orton series:
> 
> Wrestlemania - *** 1/2
> Summerslam - ****
> ...


What the fuck ? WHY ? no disrespect to ADR, that WHC needs to be elevated again, and who better to do so than Cena


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Random but I kinda miss Sheamus. I hope he has a proper 1 on 1 match at Mania 30, the last legit one he had was with Trips at WM26 and that match was meh considering how green Sheamus was back then.

I wouldn't be opposed to him putting some cred back in the IC or US titles either.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

DX in 2009 segment wise is cringe-worthy to watch and you really should skip it. Match wise there was good stuff against Legacy (Summerslam in particular being fantastic) as well as their classic Survivor Series 2009 bout against Cena and the stuff with Jerishow. Actually segment wise isn't HORRIBLE pre-Hornswoggle (Still bad) but once Hornswoggle gets involved...... Every week is like a blood orgy comprised of the remains of the original Degeneration X. It's just fucking HORRIBLE. 

Little People's Court AKA WOAT RAW Segment.... Stay the fuck away man. Stay the FUCK AWAY.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Neither did I the first time. Until I looked through wrestling forums of the past and saw so many Orton haters mention it in order to justify their (irrational) hatred for him. He even corrects himself in the next segment when offering Foley a limo ride. Something like "Come on, let's finish what we started".


Eh, I don't have time to go back and over analyse because he misspoke. I liked what I saw the first time, that's good enough for me. 

WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP CENA VS. WWE CHAMP TRIPS TITLE UNIFICATION WRESTLEMANIA XXX OH ITS ON


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd actually be GAME for that.

Punk needs to main event a Mania though .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I could honestly do without Trips/Cena. That match doesn't do anything for anyone. If Cena's facing anyone, it should Punk or Taker. Maybe Orton.

Trips in the title match against anyone besides Punk or Bryan does nothing for anyone. Doubt he's even winning the title.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd rather see this;

WWE Champion CM Punk Vs WHC John Cena (unification)
HHH Vs Daniel Bryan (Control of the Company)
Brock Lesnar Vs The Undertaker (STREAK)

:mark: :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I could definitely go for that card. Hell, just about anything that doesn't involve Undertaker vs. Ryback sounds wonderful.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^ I'm down for that just add in Dolph Ziggler vs Shawn Michaels :mark: :mark: , a man can dream can he ?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm 95% sure that if nothing bad happens, an injury or anything, the Main-Event of WM31 is going to be Punk vs Cena


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Eh, I don't have time to go back and over analyse because he misspoke. I liked what I saw the first time, that's good enough for me.


Fair enough, not everyone is an over-analyzing nitpicky cunt like those pricks.



Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I'd rather see this;
> 
> WWE Champion CM Punk Vs WHC John Cena (unification)
> HHH Vs Daniel Bryan (Control of the Company)
> ...


Add The Rock vs Randy Orton and that will be my fantasy line-up for WM30. Sheamus replacing Punk would be perfect for me too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Bleh Punk/Cena. Don't really care to see that again since I've seen it countless times the last 2 years.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I'm thinking outside the box for WM 30 here guys: 

Taker/Cena
Brock/Bryan
Punk/HHH

Punk can start getting into it and a attitude with heel HHH the start of 2014, I actually feel this can be very possible. We still have time. 

HHH tells Bryan your not getting me, your getting the man who kicked my ass not once, but twice.... BROOOOOOCK.... LEEESNARRRR! Maybe Bryan is champ? or have title vs streak with Cena/Taker.


It's WM 30! You need a massive main event fillers by 2 strong main event material matches.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

In response to everyone HATING on Del Rio, calm down. I'm a big time Del Rio fan (where's Cody to back me up on this? ). Don't get me wrong, I like Cena but I don't need the guy to be handed a title in his return match when he just lost another title in his last match. Why does everyone think the World Title is such a shitty title to hold? It doesn't matter who holds it, it's never gonna be as big as the WWE Title. Even when Sheamus held it, he still opened PPVs with it and went 3rd or 4th on the card. 

The title needs to be elevated? Del Rio has beaten Big Show, Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Christian, and Rob Van Dam all multiple times. Del Rio's a pretty damn credible champion who's had the title for 4 months now. When someone is winning their Title matches on PPV, beating veteran guys and people who've main evented shows, he's a credible champion. AJ Lee has had the Divas Championship just as long as Del Rio's been champ, is someone gonna tell me that belt needs to be elevated?

If Cena wins then cool, hope he has a good reign. If Del Rio wins, EVEN BETTER. That man will have some seriously major victories this year and it will only HELP the World Title is he's able to defeat Cena. I just don't want to see the belt flip flop over the next few months. Honestly I'd like to see Del Rio beat Cena, beat Mysterio at SSeries, then lose to Mysterio at TLC. But who the hell knows what's gonna happen with Sandow lurking.

Comparing Del Rio to Axel is a fucking joke by the way.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Goodness, that Angle vs Taker match from Smackdown 2003 was absolutely wonderful. It came close, but can't quite unseat Angle/Austin as Kurt's best match. God damn was that good. Besides the Brock run in, dare I say it was almost perfect.

Top 5 for Kurt

1. Austin vs Angle SS01 ****3/4
2. Angle vs Taker SD 2003 ****1/2
3. Angle vs Taker NWO 2006 ****1/2
4. Angle vs HBK WM21 ****1/2
5. Angle vs Brock SS 2003 ****1/2

Why oh why didn't WWE give us Angle/Taker for a streak match instead of wasting 2 classics on free tv and a "b" PPV. Ugh.


For Mania 30, this is my ideal card:

Cena/Taker
Bryan/Punk for WWE title
Orton/Brock
Sheamus/Ziggler/ADR/RVD for WHC
Rocky/HHH (absolutely no desire to see this, but if they HAVE to be involved and stink the joint out, might as well do it together and not ruin 2 matches)
Shield/Real Americans (or Wyatt's if RA has broken up)
Cody vs Goldust
Mark Henry vs Rey Mysterio

How bossy would that be?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> In response to everyone HATING on Del Rio, calm down. I'm a big time Del Rio fan (where's Cody to back me up on this? ). Don't get me wrong, I like Cena but I don't need the guy to be handed a title in his return match when he just lost another title in his last match. Why does everyone think the World Title is such a shitty title to hold? It doesn't matter who holds it, it's never gonna be as big as the WWE Title. Even when Sheamus held it, he still opened PPVs with it and went 3rd or 4th on the card.
> 
> The title needs to be elevated? Del Rio has beaten Big Show, Jack Swagger, Dolph Ziggler, Christian, and Rob Van Dam all multiple times. Del Rio's a pretty damn credible champion who's had the title for 4 months now. When someone is winning their Title matches on PPV, beating veteran guys and people who've main evented shows, he's a credible champion. AJ Lee has had the Divas Championship just as long as Del Rio's been champ, is someone gonna tell me that belt needs to be elevated?
> 
> ...


This. Axel is good in the ring, but not only is ADR a *much* better wrestler, but he (as bland as he is) is fucking Mick Foley compared to Axel in charisma and mic wise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Doesn't matter who leaves with the WHC at HIAC if Sandow is just gonna cash in and win it. Credibility of the belt will go down the toilet if he holds it.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I actually think the WHC felt more prestigious than it had in a long time when Seamus was champ. The Seamus/Show program made it feel important. At least it did to me. 

And yes, I like Sandow and think he has bags of potential down the line. He's nowhere near ready for a WHC run at this stage though. He's going to be a HORRIBLE champion. Can't be stressed enough. I hope Cena wins and that's that, he runs with it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck credibility, Sandow deserves it anyway. :sandow


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

even if it's on a cash in, I don't see Sandow pinning cena lol, I just don't.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shut up Corey
Get the fuck out of here you stupid ADR mark !!!





JK :hbk2 I think he has had a credible 4 month reign, but the belt was so tarnish (lowered) whatever you want to call it before that, that even a solid title such as the one he is on is not helping it. I truly wanted Cena to be a WHC carrier so the next guy who wins it, it means soo much more. Hell maybe it could be VACANT ? he is doing a hell of a job with the wwe title at the moment


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't hate him at all, but skins, I am* not* a ADR mark. You're welcome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cena should win the title, Sandow cash in and fail and move onto other things (like, nothing)... and then set up CENA VS REIGNS for the belt so REIGNS can SPEAR the shit out of Cena and become WHC :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea I meant to quote Corey (Jack Evans) not you :lmao


Edit: I forgot Sandow has the briefcase  Why couldnt Cody win instead


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No Cal, Sandow should be WHC, fuck you :side:. 

And Reigns should be BORK's next feud... after Bryan.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Cena should win the title, Sandow cash in and fail and move onto other things (like, nothing)... and then set up CENA VS REIGNS for the belt so REIGNS can SPEAR the shit out of Cena and become WHC :mark:.


That actually sounds like a pretty good plan, though I think that Reigns still needs to get some more big matches under his belt, if we want the WHC to seem important when that happens.

Though of course there would probably have to be some kind of "out" for Cena.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just throw all the titles on REIGNS. He can become a new meme like that pic of HHH with all the titles photoshopped on him. Except REIGNS will legitimately win them all at the same time. INCLUDING THE DIVAS TITLE.

Which would mean beating AJ. And AJ takes one hell of a SPEAR as it is. AJ taking a SPEAR from REIGNS? :mark:

What were we talking about again?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ADR fucking sucks. Sandow will be a horrible World Champ. Reigns will murder Cena (eventually). You heard it here first.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont think Ive ever wanted someone to lose his briefcase more than Sandow, plz wwe put his briefcase o nthe line so he can lose it 

Sandow=WHC is really scary


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Could be worse. Miz could have won it again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Just throw all the titles on REIGNS. He can become a new meme like that pic of HHH with all the titles photoshopped on him. Except REIGNS will legitimately win them all at the same time. INCLUDING THE DIVAS TITLE.
> 
> Which would mean beating AJ. And AJ takes one hell of a SPEAR as it is. AJ taking a SPEAR from REIGNS? :mark:
> 
> What were we talking about again?


SPEARS.

I wanna Spear AJ too


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Just curious. Would you guys consider Cody Rhodes a credible WHC?

Who do you guys think would make a more credible WHC, outside of the obvious people like Cena, Punk, Bryan, etc. 

For all the shit ADR gets, I'm not seeing the plethora of talent that are somehow more deserving. He consistently puts on better matches than most of the other talent on the roster, so...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Could be worse. Miz could have won it again.


RIght, although to be tbhayley I rather Miz have it, as I enjoy just seeing him get destroyed, I need help  most punchable face Ive ever seen

Sandow has nothing that remotely interest me


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Sheamus is the best option for WHC excluding the top guys like Orton, Bryan and Cena. Del Rio and Rhodes are probably the best options from guys a step below. Wouldn't mind vets like Christian holding it either. Would be fine with any of the SHIELD members too, specially REIGNS murdering motherfuckers with non-stop spears. I wouldn't mind Ryback either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Outside of the usual guys there really isn't anyone new aside from REIGNS that I'd consider capable of holding the title just now. And hell, it'd even be too soon for REIGNS to have it any time this year at least.

WWE just are unable to build new guys up. They try, then randomly stop and kill them off... and THEN give them a title run when they are at their lowest point.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Sheamus is the best option for WHC excluding the top guys like Orton, Bryan and Cena. Del Rio and Rhodes are probably the best options from guys a step below. Wouldn't mind vets like Christian holding it either. Would be fine with any of the SHIELD members too, specially REIGNS murdering motherfuckers with non-stop spears. I wouldn't mind Ryback either.



Ditto on everything you just said.

REIGNS VS SHEAMUS FOR THE WHC :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Well when the Shield break up, any 3 of them are WHC material IMO. Id like to see Rollins get a big push first, wwe is in desperate need of a top guy who's a highflyer with mysterio almost done and sin Cara sucking balls. 

Imagine Mysterio/Rollins? :mark


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So has Reigns done more in one-on-one matches that Ambrose has? I ask because everyone always pegged Ambrose as the WHC guy, now we're all shitting on him and praising Reigns. I'm pretty sure I've only seen the guy in one singles match against Orton (the same RAW that have us Bryan/Rollins I). 

Cody Rhodes cuts some great promos, I just don't know if his moveset is fitting for major Title matches. Then again he hasn't gotten too many chances to showcase how he'd perform in a PPV singles match with decent time since over a year ago.

I think what we can take away from all of this is that Del Rio >>>>>> Sandow.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I definitely see Rhodes as a future WHC. I wouldn't mind RVD getting a run. Seamus when he comes back although I'd like to see him get a run with the WWE title. The Shield guys will all be WHC's down the line imo. WWE? I'm not sure but they should make WHC's no problem. Ziggler can fuck off and take ADR with him. Henry as WHC. Christian. Plenty of options there if they're willing to shake it up a bit but Jesus just get it off Del Rio. I haven't cared about a WHC match since he's held it.

EDIT - Good call on Ryback. I can see him as WHC.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> I definitely see Rhodes as a future WHC. I wouldn't mind RVD getting a run. Seamus when he comes back although I'd like to see him get a run with the WWE title. The Shield guys will all be WHC's down the line imo. WWE? I'm not sure but they should make WHC's no problem. Z*iggler can fuck off *and take ADR with him. Henry as WHC. Christian. Plenty of options there if they're willing to shake it up a bit but Jesus just get it off Del Rio. I haven't cared about a WHC match since he's held it.
> 
> EDIT - Good call on Ryback. I can see him as WHC.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

redskins25 said:


>


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck, stop being a BRICK.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Only if you stop being a PITCH, Cally.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This made me laugh.

Del Rio was advertised to face Christian for the WWE's tour of Mexico, but now Christian has been pulled from all of those shows and replaced with *The Great Khali*. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not sure which was worse; PITCH or Cally :lmao.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Not sure which was worse; PITCH or Cally :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I'm being bullied


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been looking over my CAL SCALE ratings for 2000 and 2001 PPV's. With Backlash, SummerSlam and Survivor Series left, if the shows for 2001 get the EXACT same CAL SCALE ratings, then the year will be 0.5 points ahead overall than 2000! Backlash 01 out doing 00 probably isn't going to happen (25 points for 00 making it the 2nd best PPV all of time for me atm), but SummerSlam can make it up if it outdoes the 13 from 2000, and Survivor Series I think only needs to beat 6, and tbh the main event will probably do that. Everything else can go towards making up the 25 that Backlash 2000 got.

WHO WILL WIN THE PPV YEAR? 2000 OR 2001? THE SUSPENSE~!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Just curious. Would you guys consider Cody Rhodes a credible WHC?
> 
> Who do you guys think would make a more credible WHC, outside of the obvious people like Cena, Punk, Bryan, etc.
> 
> For all the shit ADR gets, I'm not seeing the plethora of talent that are somehow more deserving. He consistently puts on better matches than most of the other talent on the roster, so...


I like Cody alot ( 3 current favorite behind ziggler and punk) I think he definite will be in the future but he needs to be built up first. I honestly think this the first time in his career that he is kinda in the main spotlight (legacy was all Orton and Dibiase was suppose to be the guy)

Guys I'd like to see hold the big gold belt in the near future - Ziggler, Reigns, Cena, Bryan, Rhodes, ADR, Henry, Rey, Punk and maybe Sheamus ( His 2012 run was terrible but he is great in ring so yea) NOBODY ELSE out there atm


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I haven't seen any WWE programming since the Raw after Summerslam but I have been somewhat keeping up with what's going on storyline wise (Best for Business and Punk/Heyman feud). Could anyone give me a list of good matches that happened from post-Summerslam 2013 to now? I need to keep up lol


----------



## tigermaskfan23 (May 30, 2013)

So I think I may get these DVDS but I guess I wanna ask to be sure if they are worth it. But has anyone seen the new Goldberg DVD and is it a good DVD worth watching like it really shows off the great career of Goldberg really well? And I was also thinking of getting The Best of Starrcade and The Very Best of Monday Nitro Vol. 1 and 2 on DVD are they any good with good matches?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> I haven't seen any WWE programming since the Raw after Summerslam but I have been somewhat keeping up with what's going on storyline wise (Best for Business and Punk/Heyman feud). Could anyone give me a list of good matches that happened from post-Summerslam 2013 to now? I need to keep up lol


Although soild matches, the gold-rush of :mark: matches has kinda ended

off the top of my head

orton/goldust raw
orton/rhodes raw
bryan/reigns raw
11 vs 3 elimination tag raw
orton/christian raw


NOC sucked, some think orton/bryan was ok

check out rhodes/shield battleground, its very good

and that's about it iirc


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Don't mind if Cody wins the World title. He has actually had one of the best, well worked pushes in the PG era. He's been here since 2008 and has no world titles. Miz, like him or not, also had a very good push. Better than guys like ADL or Sheamus who were pushed way too early.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Read the last few pages.

First off, Sandow would make such an entertaining World champ, I wouldn't give a fuck about the credibility of the belt by that point.

Second, Sandow>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>xinfinity Del Rio

Thirdly, Anybody would be better than Del Rio as champ right now.

That's all I got.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

All this talk kinda makes me wanna do a Del Rio project... maybe soon. I could just watch every match of his that I own. SOON

I still need to finish this Kane set. I'm two matches into the 3rd disc and I'm sure the remaining stuff is probably the best on the set, but shit, I'm just tired of watching Kane matches.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> Read the last few pages.
> 
> First off, Sandow would make such an entertaining World champ, I wouldn't give a fuck about the credibility of the belt by that point.
> 
> ...


ADR is so much better then Sandow, they are not even comparable.

I love having the title on ADR, every match he has is fantastic and sometimes Sandow matches can be pretty boring.

Not saying I hate the guy because I do enjoy Sandow, but when you try to say he's better then ADR it's not even close IMO.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ props on the shelly sig, she gets my heart going for some reason


hhh/cena/hbk svs 09 pretty good, was really into it on this watch, felt little cherographed at some part, but very good match ****- 1/4


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ props on the shelly sig, she gets my heart going for some reason
> 
> 
> hhh/cena/hbk svs 09 pretty good, was really into it on this watch, felt little cherographed at some part, but very good match ****- 1/4


I love that match also, one of my favorite matches from that year.


----------



## Razor King (Apr 4, 2009)

Re: Triple H DVD

Just to chip in, I watched the documentary last night. It was somewhere in the middle. I'm glad they addressed the Hunter/Steph issue because it did leave an asterisk on the side of his name. They had to address it. But they just skipped over 1999 - 2005 in 5 minutes. That was annoying because those are the most interesting times for Hunter as an in ring performer. He didn't talk about 2000/2001 at all and I had actually wanted to know how he felt about all those matches he had. Instead, the focus lies on the COO stuff, which--again for Hunter--is fine because it's inbuilt now, but not at the expense of his in-ring career. On the whole, I liked the documentary until they got to 2000 and after that, it was just Hunter's personal life and stuff, and DX reunion. They took up all the time.

On the matches, I think there is a consensus: it disappointed. I don't think repeats would be an issue because many of Hunter's truly great matches haven't received the coverage that it deserves. Due to the Iron Man match, they couldn't involve other long matches, which is understandable but including trifle of matches such as Flair, Booker, and Jericho was pretty poor. They could have involved the LMS against Jericho or even the Booker T 'Mania XIX match, if they wanted to feature them.

Overall, I was disappointed, especially for somebody who admires Hunter's work a lot.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Will/does anyone here get/got this year's MITB DVD or blu-ray?


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

watchwrestling.net is down


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oooo just got the Daniel Bryan Superstar Collection in the post. Was it ever released over here in the UK? Doesn't matter, paid £3 for it from a seller on Amazon brand new . Bryan Vs Jericho on NXT :mark:. Bryan Vs Miz :mark:. Bryan MITB win :mark:. Bryan Vs Henry :mark:. And then the RR triple threat...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Sandow > than Del Rio is a joke of a comment. Even in terms of interest. Del Rio fucking people up like a villain is more interesting.

World Championship scene actually has a ton of potential when you look at the workers piled on in it. Some are unfortunately injured atm and the company lacks really sustainable booking among the division, but the potential is high. At least for engrossing programs. Matches are already killer. To no surprise. DEL RIO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sandow isn't that good anyway. I mean, how many good matches has the guy had? I recall a good match with Sheamus. A decent match with Cody. And. Ummmm...

Not high on Del Rio either but at least he can get it done in the ring most of the time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sandow having a shit 17 match with Christian is where you kind of draw the line. He's worked well with Sheamus though. Really liked the matches vs Rhodes from SummerSlam & Raw. And had some other matches I've liked, but they aren't exactly as consistent as I would prefer.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sandow has yet to really do anything to impress me and I'm nowhere near on his "bandwagon" even if his gimmick can be fun sometimes (not high on that either lol). Him being WHC won't be good on any level.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm lukewarm on it, but i'll be momentarily optimistic b/c I don't dislike him. Don't have any problems with him, tbhayley. I'm just not excited for it or particularly care much.

Could be worse. Could be someone who makes me rant non-stop.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sheamus/Sandow from the Payback pre-show was pretty solid. I don't care if he's not where he should be atm, as long as I can see him I'm good. I marked for his MITB win :sandow 

Speaking of MITB, does anyone honestly have it over SSlam?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't see how anyone could have MITB over SS. The 3 main matches on that show destroy everything from MITB.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't like their Payback match. Their matches on TV this year _(last year too...)_ were far better.

MITB was a good show, but I'll be surprised if someone did prefer it over SummerSlam. I know I don't.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've seen some say "MITB > SummerSlam" out there. Got me curious to know.

As it stands for me:

1) SummerSlam
2) MITB
3) Payback (Fuck off :side
4) WM 29
5) Elimination Chamber
6) Battleground

7) Extreme Rules
8) Night Of Champions


9) Royal Rumble


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd honestly probably have Battleground over Payback or Chamber. Not sure, b/c I don't care to rank, but for the majority they all suffer from bleak undercards and have at least one match worth seeing. Well, Payback has two main events that sucked and an undercard that was actually better. So, that one is a tad different. Meh. Battleground wins b/c it actually has a Punk match I like. Fuck the Rock & Jericho matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You liked Punk/Ryback? Jesus. It started very Punk/Lesnar-esque but Rybore's control segments are more dull than Khali's tbph. At least the Rock match still played off of its stipulation intelligently. At the least the Jericho match was like the prototype of Angle/Benoit with actual selling (even though still lacked purpose) and a badass crowd.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Jericho was a massive trainwreck. Those two looked like lazy fools and they don't get a pass b/c "I like them" or "the crowd was hot". Why do you always find a way to bring up Angle vs Benoit matches?

Rock match was a 22 minute headlock. So...

Punk vs Ryback was good. End of.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tell that to the rest of the IWC. And because I can. :side:

Not exactly.

To each their own.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Punk/Rock and Punk/Jericho sucked. But I sat through them. Was unable to even attempt Punk/Ryback .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I need to get that list going of the PPV matches I've actually liked this year. Easier way to formulate what I cared about instead of ranking the PPV entirely b/c most aren't worthy of that.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

BattleGround was the worst PPV of the year, for me. Oh and ***3/4 for HHh/Brock from WM, rating still the same, the match is better if you don't see it after Taker/Punk


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Will/does anyone here get/got this year's MITB DVD or blu-ray?


I do, yes. The blu ray.



Callamus said:


> Oooo just got the Daniel Bryan Superstar Collection in the post. Was it ever released over here in the UK? Doesn't matter, paid £3 for it from a seller on Amazon brand new . Bryan Vs Jericho on NXT :mark:. Bryan Vs Miz :mark:. Bryan MITB win :mark:. Bryan Vs Henry :mark:. And then the RR triple threat...


That disc doesn't get enough talk. Really encapsulates the biggest moments of Bryan's career to the the point that it was released. I could've done without the cage match, but still...



ATF said:


> Sheamus/Sandow from the Payback pre-show was pretty solid. I don't care if he's not where he should be atm, as long as I can see him I'm good. I marked for his MITB win :sandow
> 
> Speaking of MITB, does anyone honestly have it over SSlam?


I wouldn't think someone was crazy if they had MITB over Summerslam. MITB was ultra consistent and had 4 matches in the *** 1/2 - *** 3/4 range from me. I thought Summerslam was a 3 match show obviously but those 3 matches were fucking incredible.  Either way they're the 1 and 2 ppvs from this year and nothing comes anywhere close to them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have WM over MITB, still. 

Only thing from WM I didn't like was the main event. Even then, it had a very pleasing result so if it wasn't for SummerSlam - that'll be the tops.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MITB:

WHC Ladder - ***1/4
WWE Ladder - ***1/4
Cena/Henry - ***1/2

SS:

Del Rio/Christian - ***1/2
Punk/Lesnar - ****1/2
Bryan/Cena - ***3/4

I like Payback just for Del Rio/Ziggler (***3/4) and AJ/Kaitlyn (***) .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

For me:

1. Summerslam
2.. Money in the Bank
3. Wrestlemania
4. Elimination Chamber
5. Payback

Then the rest, which didn't give me much of anything to like besides a match here or there.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Spoiler: list of crap



Elimination Chamber:

1) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Big Show

2) WWE United States Championship
Antonio Cesaro(c) vs Mike Mizanin

3) *The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback*



WrestleMania 29:

1) *The Shield vs Big Show, Sheamus, & Randy Orton*

2) Mark Henry vs Ryback

3) WWE Tag Team Championship
Kane & Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E. Langston

4) Fandango vs Chris Jericho

5) WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Jack Swagger

6) *The Undertaker vs CM Punk*

7) *No Holds Barred
Triple H vs Brock Lesnar*



Extreme Rules:

1) WWE Tag Team Championship - Tornado Match
Kane & Daniel Bryan(c) vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns

2) WWE Championship - Last Man Standing Match
John Cena(c) vs Ryback

3) *Steel Cage Match
Brock Lesnar vs Triple H*



Payback:

1) WWE Intercontinental Championship - Triple Threat Match
Wade Barrett(c) vs Curtis Axel vs Mike Mizanin

2) WWE Divas Championship
Kaitlyn(c) vs AJ Lee

3) *WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Dolph Ziggler(c) vs Alberto Del Rio*

4) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns(c) vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton



Money in the Bank:

1) *World Heavyweight Championship - Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Jack Swagger vs Antonio Cesaro vs Dean Ambrose vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango*

2) WWE Intercontinental Championship
Curtis Axel vs Mike Mizanin

3) *WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Dolph Ziggler*

4)* WWE Championship
John Cena(c) vs Mark Henry*

5) WWE Championship - Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Randy Orton vs CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus vs Christian vs Rob Van Dam



SummerSlam:

1) WWE United States Championship
Dean Ambrose(c) vs Rob Van Dam

2) Cody Rhodes vs Damien Sandow

3) *WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Christian*

4) *No DQ
Brock Lesnar vs CM Punk*

5)* WWE Championship
John Cena(c) vs Daniel Bryan*



Night of Champions:

1) *WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Rob Van Dam*

2) WWE United States Championship
Dean Ambrose(c) vs Dolph Ziggler

3) WWE Tag Team Championship
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns(c) vs Darren Young & Titus O'Neil

4) WWE Championship
Randy Orton(c) vs Daniel Bryan



Battleground:

1) WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Hardcore Match
Alberto Del Rio(c) vs Rob Van Dam

2) *Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns*

3) CM Punk vs Ryback

4) WWE Championship
Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton



^everything I've at least liked or had fun with on PPV this year. The ones I loved are in BOLD.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Where do you all think Lesnar V Punk match ranks in the history Summerslam?

Match quality wise of course


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a perfect match for me, so easily top five.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Where do you all think Lesnar V Punk match ranks in the history Summerslam?
> 
> Match quality wise of course


Top 5 imo. Bumped Angle/Lesnar off it its favor.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What in the world did you like about Punk/Ryback, Cody? That match damn near put me to sleep.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

To answer the where does Brock-Punk rank in the history of Summerslam matches, I'd say only 2 matces come to mind as being a possible superiors, Angle/Austin and Bret/Perfect.

For me:

1. Angle/Austin *****
2. Bret/Perfect *****
3. Brock/Punk *****
4. Bret/Owen Steel Cage ****3/4
5. Rey/Angle ****1/2
6. HBK vs Razor Ladder Match ****1/2
7. Warrior/Rude Steel Cage ****1/2
8. Punk/Hardy TLC ****1/2
9. Edge/Taker HiaC ****1/2
10. Brock/Angle ****1/2

Bulldog/Bret, TLC I, Orton/Christian, Brainbusters/Harts, UnAmericans/Booker&Goldust, are great too, after the top 3-4 matches, there are so many great ones it's hard to say which is better.

Top 3 are all pretty much ties as I view all 3 as being perfect matches. After that 5-10 can be in pretty much any order, they were all fabulous matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Off the top of my head, the only SS matches I'd put above Lensar/Punk is Angle/Austin from 01, Angle/Lensar from 03 and Bret/Perfect from 91.

EDIT :lmao at me failing to spell Lesnar twice. Leaving it like that.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Primer said:


> . Why do you always find a way to bring up Angle vs Benoit matches?


Dude I fucking swear ATF favorite match and wrestler is Kurt Angle and angle/benoit rr 03. Dude you ALWAYS bring it up :lmao somehow every time its actually funny,


Extreme Rules can fuck off tbh, didnt like hhh/brock III, the tag match is the only thing I'd ever think about watching again, like EVER again


Shave 10-15 mins off punk/ryback and its not that bad, decent


Edit: Punk/lesnar is the best match @ summerslam IMO


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Benoit? I'm watching an Angle/Benoit match RIGHT NOW!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Spoiler: list of crap
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your list of things you like and loved on ppv is practically identical to mine, only difference is I just HATED the following

hhh/brock III
all the axel matches
all the ambrose matches
rvd/adr battleground

kinda what to watch orton/bryan noc


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Dude I fucking swear ATF favorite match and wrestler is Kurt Angle and angle/benoit rr 03. Dude you ALWAYS bring it up :lmao somehow every time its actually funny,
> 
> 
> Extreme Rules can fuck off tbh, didnt like hhh/brock III, the tag match is the only thing I'd ever think about watching again, like EVER again
> ...



FINALLY, someone agrees with me that Lesnar/Trips ER13 is utter fucking garbage. Seriously. I give it **1/2 and that's being extremely generous. Just did not like much about it at all.

Angle/Benoit RR03>HHH/Brock ER13 :side:

Anywho, back to Summerslam. Really wouldn't gripe too much about someone saying Punk-Lesnar is the best, I mean really, that's a match that every time I watch it, it gets better. It honestly is right there with MitB as Punk's best match, I have a hard time saying which is better. MitB probably gets the nod because of the importance to Punk's career and that insane Chicago crowd, but the LA crowd was great too and I loved the build to Best vs Beast.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> *Dude I fucking swear ATF favorite match and wrestler is Kurt Angle and angle/benoit rr 03. Dude you ALWAYS bring it up :lmao somehow every time its actually funny,*
> 
> 
> Extreme Rules can fuck off tbh, didnt like hhh/brock III, the tag match is the only thing I'd ever think about watching again, like EVER again
> ...


Says the guy that once in almost all the time mentions Orton


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

What's the general feeling on Angle/Benoit Backlash 01 (30 minute Ultimate Submission match)? Just curious how people are gonna react to my thoughts on it .

LAST MAN STANDING time :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

First 10 minutes are awesome, the rest is _*boring*_ imo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Says the guy that once in almost all the time mentions Orton


Just ribbing man, just find it funny although I would 100 % not be shocked if one day you say Angle is your favorite and you deep down loved that match


^^about the above

1) I do not talk about Orton ALL the time, do I ?

2) I DONT hate Orton, I just criticize how much he has fallen off these past 3-4 years and how bland he could be in the ring, I dont hate him at all I use to love Randy, I did the pose 10x a day when I was younger,


----------



## GNR4LIFE (Dec 27, 2012)

Was watching the HHH/Rock iron man match tonight. First time i've watched in a long time and i was pretty disappointed tbh. A lot of the falls came about off random spots like piledrivers and DDT's. HHH ended up winning 5-4, way too many falls in 60 mins. Seems like they went out of their way to make sure it was the complete opposite of Bret/Shawn which had no falls whatsoever.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

You're right about the Rock Vs HHH Ironman being pretty much the opposite of the Bret Vs Shawn Ironman in every way.

Rock Vs HHH is actually an exciting hour of wrestling that is in no way shape or form a boring, incoherent mess.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> What's the general feeling on Angle/Benoit Backlash 01 (30 minute Ultimate Submission match)? Just curious how people are gonna react to my thoughts on it .
> 
> LAST MAN STANDING time :mark:.


Actually haven't seen it, I'm interested to read your thoughts, it's the only high profile Benoit match I don't think I've seen, as the gimmick, an ultimate submissions match, just didn't interest me. I saw Bret/Backlund stink the joint out at mania with that match and it just sorta scarred me.

Edit- Redskins, I'm not hiding it, I do enjoy the Angle/Benojt match at Royal Rumble. Who cares if you guys hate it, it ENTERTAINS me, I don't care what a bunch of people on the internet think about it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bret/Backlund was an I Quit match, not an Ultimate Submission match . And thankfully it didn't go anywhere near 30 minutes .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Bret/Backlund was an I Quit match, not an Ultimate Submission match . And thankfully it didn't go anywhere near 30 minutes .


I thought I remembered it being a submissions only match.....lord knows they didn't do shit else other than submissions. Ugh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well it was WWF 1995, and I Quit match between 2 TECHNICALZ wrestlers back then would have been just submission holds rather than some crazy wild brawl. Though a crazy wild brawl might have been somewhat entertaining. Think I actually gave the match a DUD rating :lmao.

Main Event time at Backlash 01 :mark:.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Bret/Backlund is one of the most appalling displays I've ever seen. Two uber-talented men going at it head to head when they've had awesome matches in the past, on the biggest stage of the year fucking it all up to hell. What happened? It was one of the worst cocktails of garbage I've ever seen from the pacing to the dreadful amount of filler in an 11 minute match, all the way to the fucking time itself (11 MINUTES?~?~?~ DA FUCK).

Anyways, Benoit/HHH from Vengeance is up next. I remember loving this a long time ago and it's time to check it out again. No doubt U-GENE'S involvement will help me sour on the match more these days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What in the world did you like about Punk/Ryback, Cody? That match damn near put me to sleep.


Everything. Their chemistry works for me. Even during the headlock portion I didn't lose interest. It got slower at that point, but I wasn't against it.



redskins25 said:


> Your list of things you like and loved on ppv is practically identical to mine, only difference is I just HATED the following
> 
> hhh/brock III
> all the axel matches
> ...


You gots to warm up to the cage, man. BROCK & HEYMAN. Made the match into something special for me. The others are no surprise, and I can see why the lot wouldn't care. Although, Axel vs Miz was actually a solid affair with some nifty moments in it. I have to put that over always, b/c it ended up having something behind it opposed to being the blandest match ever. Which it could have been.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

GNR4LIFE said:


> Was watching the HHH/Rock iron man match tonight. First time i've watched in a long time and i was pretty disappointed tbh.* A lot of the falls came about off random spots like piledrivers and DDT's*. HHH ended up winning 5-4, way too many falls in 60 mins. Seems like they went out of their way to make sure it was the complete opposite of Bret/Shawn which had no falls whatsoever.


What's wrong with that?


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Just watched Show vs Sheamus Lumberjack match for the very first time.. great match. These two can do no wrong. Loved the finish, Show sold that Brough Kick really good. ***3/4


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match is fabulous. Doesn't matter how ass that night of RAW was, at least that match happened.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That from the Christmas Raw? If so, it's a LUMBER JACKFROST match, actually .

And yeah, it's awesome. Their second best match together imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their Chairs match is pretty underrated, imo. Even I didn't realize how great it was on the first watch. But it's REALLY good. Easily the best chairs match in company history.

All their matches though = <3.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Easily the best chairs match? It could be ** and still be the best .

But I do like all their matches, but they got progressively worse, just like Show/Henry did. The Lumber Jackfrost match is the exception .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill have to rewatch the Show/Sheamus HIAC match, i wasn't sure what i thought on first watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh, they're all top notch stuff, so I can't use the term "worse" in there. If I were using stars these days, about three would be in the four area and Survivor Series would be near it. Best series of matches seen last year along with Punker vs Danielson. Not sure which I love more.

Show vs Henry matches were all great or good till the flop at TLC. But Henry was injured, so that's why that one was like that. The first three = :lenny


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I have NEVER seen one show/sheamus match, need to get on that

only henry/show I didnt like was svs 11


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF Backlash 2001*

He who has the gold, has the power. He who has the power, has the gold. No power, no gold. Know power, know gold.


*The Dudley Boys Vs X-Factor*

6 man tag here, with Spike joining his brothers and ALBERT actually being able to join his team mates for a change. He normally has to stand on the outside.

Spike knows his place early on in this match; he gets launched over the ropes onto X-Factor lol. He's only good when he's being used as a weapon .

Poor Justin ends up going crotch first into the ring post. I like that once Justin gets the chance, he gets X-Pac to help him crotch D-Von on the ring post too as revenge. REVENGE SPOT~!

Damn, Albert's stalling double arm underhook suplex is amazing. And D-Von ain't no little guy either.

X-Pac needed to kick more. He throws some awesome kicks, ones that look STIFF AS FUCK too. I still remember the Benoit one from NWO lol.

Hot tag to Bubba isn't as hot as you'd hope, which is a shame. I mainly think it was because the match didn't get much time and X-Factor didn't have the chance to build much heat. Disappointing because I really think they could have done so much more had they been given the chance.

Nice finish at least. RUNNING SPLASH in the corner from Albert followed by DOUBLE SUPER KICKS.

Fun opener, but that's about it unfortunately. Not sure why this was a 6 man... Spike was utterly pointless. They didn't have enough time to really make use of 3 people on the babyface team (hot tags, run ins etc).

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


THE DUCHESS OF QUEENSBERRY~!

Lillian walks in on Angle polishing his medals.


*Rhyno Vs Raven - WWF Hardcore Championship Match*

RHYNO :mark:

HARDCORE TITLE MATCH :mark:

Oh and Raven too. Whatevers.

RUNNING TRASH CAN TO THE HEAD~!

These two just start laying into each other from the get go. Oh man I just wanna throw a million stars at it already lol.

:mark:

Rhyno runs up the steel steps, dives off them and Raven MOVES out of the way and Rhyno crashes into a steel chair, which just CRUMBLES under him :mark:. Then Raven runs around and jumps off the steps himself, this time with success!

TROLLEY~! Seeing one just makes me sad because I no longer have a job . Plus, HOW DARE THEY MISTREAT A TROLLEY LIKE THAT!

God I love seeing guys get hit in the head with flimsy metal objects .

Sweet Jebus this is too fun. TOO MUCH FUN. FUN OVERLOAD. :mark:

GORE! GORE! GORE! RIGHT INTO THE FUCKING TROLLEY!!!

THE KITCHEN SINK~! About damn time someone used it!

My god that was an epic near fall lol.

GORE! GORE! GORE! THIS TIME TO RAVEN!

Rhyno keeps his title.

:mark:.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*William Regal Vs Chris Jericho - Duchess of Queensberry Rules Match*

The Duchess of Drag Queensberry Rules are unknown to everyone but Regal, but since I've seen this match before, allow me to explain: Regal has to win. Aaaand those are the rules! 

Great little spot at the start with them doing a tie up and going into the corner, forcing the referee to get between them. Regal gets a cheap shot in with a forearm to the face, so Jericho just blasts him right back.

EUROPEAN UPPERCUTS :mark:.

LIONSAULT~! THE BELL RINGS~! Apparently the time limit for ROUND ONE has expired :lmao. Regal rolls up Jericho to try and get a cheap win but fails.

Fuck me, that SUPLEX. Love, LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE that Half Nelson suplex.

REGAL STRETCH~! Which makes no sense if you've already seen the match 8*D.

WALLS OF JERICHO~! REGAL TAPS! But wait, no! You can't win by submission! :lmao

Jericho is PISSED, so he looks to go after the Duchess, and ends up getting smacked in the face with a sceptre!!! Of course, NO DQ'S in this match... now!

Ha, I love how Jericho looks to go for the Walls, then realises there is no submissions here AND no DQ so he just boots Regal in the balls instead!

And then this happens:










:lmao

Walls of Jericho on the Duchess! Regal beats the fuck out of Jericho with a chair and gets the win.

Match is... odd. It's entertaining and the Duchess stuff makes it interesting lol, but at the same time it's a weird match. It's good but not quite good. Or something. You know I'm not sure myself :lmao.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - 30 Minute Ultimate Submission Match*

I'm actually excited to watch this match! Always been a fan of it, even after going way down on the likes of their RR 03 match.

First few minutes are :mark:. It's all on the mat with both guys trying to get control and to lock in their signature submission hold. Great counter wrestling from both as they go a great job of not only avoiding certain holds but also leveraging themselves with the counter into a position to potentially lock in a submission too.

CROSSFACE~! TAP OUT~! But it happen on the floor, so it doesn't count. People complain at times about everyone and their grandma "out wrestling" Angle at points in a match, but at least here Benoit is BELIEVABLE.

Angle is pretty awesome after the Crossface; he stalls like FUCK before finally getting back in the ring because he wants to rest up as much as possible before getting back into the fight. And then when he DOES get back in the ring, he levels Benoit with a right hand to knock Benoit off his game as this has been a WRESTLING match so far, and is able to lock in a knee lock and Benoit taps! SMART by Kurt with how he went about it, and also smart by Benoit to tap straight away to avoid any more damage than was necessary. This is a 30 minute match, not a one fall match, so giving up IS going to put him at a disadvantage, he can get out of the hold quickly by tapping and then work towards getting a submission himself. Which he soon does with an ARM BAR.

Also love that the first 2 submissions AREN'T from the Crossface or Ankle Lock. We saw in the early part of the match that both guys know how to counter those holds extremely well, so both resort to other holds that they won't be AS prepared for, and it pays off for BOTH of them.

Benoit SNAPS at the referee and shoves him down, so Angle takes advantage and decks Benoit with a chair! Ankle Lock, and this is done. 2-1 in favour of Angle so far. Oh and apparently there is a 30 second rest period, something I honestly didn't notice from the first 2 submissions :lmao.

Oh man, Benoit is still hurt from the chair shot and Ankle Lock, allowing Angle to add insult to injury, forcing the Crippler to tap to his own Crossface! 3-1 to Angle with 18 minutes to go!

With a big advantage, Angle can stop focusing on JUST making Benoit tap out, and can start to BEAT UP Benoit because they do HATE each other, remember? Angle even locks in an Ankle Lock on the outside that makes Benoit tap out even though it doesn't count, just because he wants to make Benoit HURT.

Nice little FIGHT on the mat with Benoit doing his best to prevent an Arm Bar attempt, followed by Angle having to escape an Arm Bar from Benoit!

Benoit gets some momentum going again and gets another submission win with a sweeet Half Boston Crap that looked more like a Half WCW Walls of Jericho lol. Angle has the 30 seconds to rest, then when the bell rings again to start the match, he rolls out of the ring! Benoit chases him, and Angle gets in the ring again and rolls out one more time! This might be one of the smartest matches Angle has wrestled lol. Certainly in the Benoit series where BOTH seemed to go full on retard lol.

Angle KEEPS going to the outside! Not just to rest up some more, but also to help run the clock down a little bit. 10 minutes left, but 30 seconds spend on the outside is 30 seconds taken from Benoit to try and gain another submission to even the score. And then when that doesn't quite work, Angle sends Benoit outside and blocks him from getting back in for another minute! :mark: I'm seriously loving this match so far! 9 minutes left and if they don't fuck up I'm thinking this is gonna do really well lol.

Sleeper hold from Angle around the 6 minute mark. Works in Angle's favour for another potential fall, but also keeps Benoit grounded and out of the match for another couple of minutes, which is the WORST thing for the Crippler with such little time left!

Angle is doing a really fucking good job at keeping Benoit down in the last 10 minutes. He's up 3-2 and he knows if he can just keep Benoit at bay, he's got this one in the BAG.

Benoit isn't going to give up though, and with 2 minutes left finally gets a chance at locking in the Ankle Lock, and Angle taps! 3-3 with 2 minutes left!!!

And now with the match almost over, I LOVE that Benoit doesn't keep trying for the Crossface just because he's now in control. He JUST got a win with the Ankle Lock, so he immediately goes back after the leg! Angle continues to be great by attaching himself to the ropes!

Ankle Lock! Benoit can't get out... but the clock runs out! And then Benoit taps! 3-3 and this is a draw... but then we go into SUDDEN DEATH!!! My money is on Benoit :side:.

They've just wrestled for 30 minutes, and it's now SUDDEN DEATH so they both just scramble to get in a submission, and in the end it's Benoit who gets the Crossface in first, and Angle TAPS OUT. Benoit wins 4-3!!!

I still ADORE this match. Without a doubt their BEST match together. It's damn near perfect tbh. There isn't much I can possibly point to that isn't good about this. It's extremely smartly wrestled by both guys, especially Angle (I know, right!!!). They use the time and the stipulation WONDERFULLY. It's incredible. My rating is going UP.

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*


*Shane McMahon Vs The Big Show - Last Man Standing Match*

SHANE AND THE BEANSTALK~!

:lmao at Shane trying to grab a chair and MISSING it. KENDO STICK~!

Shane MAULS the giant with the stick until Show gets really fucked off, grabs the stick and clotheslines Shane to HELL.

The Kendo Stick didn't work, so try a chair! Show takes about 7 shots and still only stays down for a 5 count!

:lmao Shane tried to Chloroform Big Show :lmao. Show is OUT! Vince shows up to make sure this isn't over yet, and cracks his own son in the face with a chair and steals the Chloroform. For his own personal use, no doubt. WHICH WAY TO THE DIVAS LOCKERROOM DAMMIT? 

The Vince interference allows Show to recover and now he's back to trying to kill Shane.

Good GOD what a Chokeslam. I miss those kind of Chokeslams from Show. The ones he does now are shite.

Show could have won a couple of times already, but keeps picking Shane up to punish him more in the name of VINCE MCMAHON.

TEST~! He's out to help his buddy Shane, and ends up getting his arse kicked :lmao.

Shane has time to recover and goes after Show, and then BIG SHOW GETS A PIPE! :lmao at Shane running for his fucking LIFE as the 7 foot giant chases after him with a weapon!!!

Shane climbs the BEANSTALK aka part of the staging, while Test gets back into this and places Show on a weird stage thingy... and SHANE COMES CRASHING DOWN OFF THE TOP OF THE TITAN TRON RIGHT ONTO... THE STAGING! He didn't quite land on Show lol, but hey, it's an awesome spot visually .

Both men are out of it, so Test grabs a camera crane and supports Shane in order to keep him on his feet! Shane wins!

This is ok. FUN but not AS FUN as I was expecting lol. Their JD 00 match is better.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


STEVE BLACKMAN~! He's at WWF New York talking about the LMS match. And then GRAND MASTER SEXAY just jumps onto the screen "rapping" and Blackman is wishing he had a Kendo Stick .


*Matt Hardy Vs Christian Vs Eddie Guerrero - WWF European Championship Match*

If this happened in say, 2005, I'd be FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP'ing like made. But Christian wasn't in THE ZONE yet as an incredible singles wrestler. Eddie was too fucked up on drugs to really GO, and Matt wasn't quite on the level he would be either.

That being said maybe I'll be surprised . I mean, they ARE all still talented as hell even at this time.

:lmao at Matt running around the ring and the ref being in the way THE ENTIRE TIME as he tries desperately to run the ropes to do a sunset flip, which ends up being fucked up because they are too close to the ropes .

Sweet back body drop into the ropes countered with a DDT by Matt to Christian on the outside :mark:. DOUBLE BRAINBUSTERS by Eddie :mark:. Love brainbusters because they remind me of DICK~! Murdoch .

Edge shows up and Spears Matt, then throws him into the ring for Christian to pin him, only for Eddie to sneak up behind and take care of Christian and go for a cover himself! Only a 2 count though

Jeff shows up, takes care of Edge and gives Christian a Swanton, and Matt retains his belt.

This was short but very fun indeed. All 3 guys actually spend the majority of the match in the ring together, which makes a bloody change from the typical boring triple threat formula. Finishing stretch is pretty gosh darn cool.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Steve Austin & Triple H Vs The Undertaker & Kane - WWF Championship, WWF Intercontinental Championship and WWf Tag Team Championship Match*

ALL THE GOLD is up for grabs here. If HHH is pinned, he loses his IC belt. If Austin is pinned and he loses his WWF title. If either Undertaker or Kane are pinned, they lose the tag belts. ALL THE GOLD, ALL THE POWER.

POWER TRIP have just gotten together and have been destroying people, so I love how BOD are their first opponents. They are two 7 foot BAD ASSES who are probably the most credible team kayfabe wise at this point to go up against Austin and HHH. And when HHH and Austin BEAT them, it makes the victory for Benoit and Jericho that much BIGGER.

Kane's arm is FUCKED going into this match. Austin and HHH knew they couldn't go toe to toe with the Brothers of Destruction without some kind of advantage, so they targeted Kane's arm on their way to Backlash.

BOD stand tall in the ring and refuse to let Austin and HHH in, just a little MIND GAMES from them. HHH gets blasted in the face with a right hand of the Dead Man, and man oh man do they milk the shit out of that :lmao. Then HHH tries again and gets decked AGAIN :lmao. Hmmm... running into the ring to get punched in the face doesn't seem to be working!

BOD look UNSTOPPABLE early on, but then the injured arm of Kane begins to prove a weakness, so Undertaker has to get in and take care of things himself.

:lmao at Austin looking TERRIFIED when he tags into the match thinking Kane is gonna be his opponent, only for Undertaker to tag in.

:lmao Austin wants to shake hands. So Undertaker boots him IN THE FACE.

Kane wants to tag in, but Undertaker is reluctant. Kane is persistent and Undertaker gives in since they ARE in control for the time being. Undertaker doesn't let Kane stay in too long because he knows this match is gonna be won or lost on how long Kane spends in the ring with that bad arm.

THE TWIN TOWERS OF DOOM. JR's new name for Undertaker and Kane lol.

OLD SCHOOL~!

OLD SCHOOL~!

Undertaker essentially having to fight both HHH and Austin himself leads to his downfall though. Nice workover period here.

A comeback from the Dead Man, and he gets the chance to tag Kane in, but he shakes his head and DOESN'T tag Kane in. Undertaker keeps trying to take on both HHH and Austin alone, but he keeps getting beat down and eventually Kane is able to get a blind tag to help out his brother, though Undertaker is NOT happy.

Kane is the fresh man in and is able to hold his own until his bad arm proves to be too much for even the BIG RED MACHINE.

HHH and Austin really fucking go to work on the injured arm of Kane. I swear if they could, they'd tear it off and beat him with it lol. 

Awesome little spot where Austin smashes Kane's arm with a chair, forcing Undertaker to go after him, and Austin runs half way up the rampay to escape :lmao.

Great tag work from HHH and Austin to as they do everything in their power to prevent a tag to Undertaker.

PEDIGREE~! Kane is OUT, so Undertaker sneaks in and Chokeslams HHH!!! STEPHANIE (looking SMOKING FAPTASTIC btw) gets on the apron to distract the ref, so WOMEN BEATER EARL pushes her off the apron! I'm glad he's no longer in WWE. What a cunt! 

ENZIGURI FROM KANE~!

Kane finally gets a tag but the referee doesn't see it, but by god UNDERTAKER DOESN'T GIVE A FUCK and proceeds to single handedly OBLITERATE the TWO MAN POWER TRIP.

LAST RIDE~! But Undertaker isn't legal as far as the referee is concerned (currently making him Cody's favourite wrestler 8*D )!

STUNNER ON KANE~!

HHH and Kane are both out of it, and Austin and Undertaker are busy battling it out on the outside. 

BIG BOOT TO STEPHANIE! Kane needs to be punished for that. SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE INJURED ARM. SLEDGEHAMMER TO THE HEAD. HHH AND AUSTIN JUST WON ALL THE GOLD!

This is still fucking tremendous. I've always been one of the bigger fans of this match, and now I might be THE biggest fan of it lol. You aren't gonna find many tags better than this in WWE history.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 20.5*​


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You rewatched the Survivor Series match, skins? b/c I didn't like it at first myself, but I watched it recently and I don't know why I was negative towards it. It's good. Slower paced than the previous two matches, but still good. MOTN on that show too. Not like it was hard though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Primer said:


> You rewatched the Survivor Series match, skins? b/c I didn't like it at first myself, but I watched it recently and I don't know why I was negative towards it. It's good. Slower paced than the previous two matches, but still good. MOTN on that show too. Not like it was hard though.


I havent, just seen it 1 time and that was live, I'll check it out when I get the chance


I'm feeling like I want to watch HIAC 2012, didnt watch wwe during that time, any thought on the event ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's solid with two great matches on it _(Show vs Sheamus & Cesaro vs Gabriel)_ Only matches I'd say aren't worth the time are the obvious picks. Orton vs Del Rio & Divas. b/c Orton in 2012 & Divas are never worth seeing. That's the show I really want to rewatch myself. Only seen a few matches over recently. The two I named and the tag team championship match.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

ALL TITLES ON THE LINE.

What a fucking awesome tag bout, one of the most underrated ever for sure.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd remember it better if I owned it on DVD. Know I like it so yay.

Angle vs Benoit was always a struggle to watch. Don't share Cal's love for it. His opinion blew me away, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, ****3/4 on the Ultimate Submission? I'd struggle to give it ***1/2  Though the first 10 minutes were super smartly worked and just brilliant, I was left zzzz'ing after that.

But (Y) on praising that IMMENSE Main Event :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kinda shocked myself with ****3/4 rating for it lol. But I've always loved it and used to have it at ****1/2 and I felt this time around it was significantly better, so I just went with it.

SummerSlam 01 next :mark:. Man, only 2 2001 PPV's to go? I've blasted through all of 2000 and nearly all of 2001 in no time at all lol. I won't be going any further now though. Mainly because I don't have much from the likes of 2002 or 2003, and I cba downloading like 8 shows per year just to do it. I've probably only had to download 6 shows in total for this project, and 4 of them were the UK only PPV's. Rest I already had on my PC in full DVD format or I own on disc. 2006 is the only year I own all PPV's from and none are downloads lol, and I've done all the SD side of that and half of Raw already .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SUMMERSLAM 2001.

Our opinions on it might differ so much pardon Austin vs Angle. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If things hold up, expect high ratings for RHYNO/JERICHO and TAJIRI/X-PAC as well as Austin/Angle, with everything else likely being pretty low .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You keepin' SVS for last? Interesting. That ME was fabulous.

SSlam ruled the fucking world. Austin/Angle was a ***** masterpiece imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah, I started with INVASION which was the beginning of the Invasion Angle essentially, so I'm ending with SVS with ended the angle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> If things hold up, expect high ratings for RHYNO/JERICHO and TAJIRI/X-PAC as well as Austin/Angle, with everything else likely being pretty low .


So much YES & BOO coming from me in one post. But, I'm extremely biased b/c I love damn near everything on that show. That six man for example. Undeniable love. Chaos in the last 45 seconds = :woolcock


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't remember much about the 6 man tag so it shall be interested to see it again. Don't care for Edge/Storm or the Ladder Match though .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Always dig both of those a ton too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Storm/Edge is ok, decent enough based on memory but under ***. Ladder match... PREPARE FOR ME SHITTING ON THE ENTIRE THING .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I blame your internal dislike for RVD for all of that. :hayley2

LEAVE ROB AND HIS WEED WAYS ALONE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hey, I kinda hate Jeff too ya know :side:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

show/sheamus HIAC 12 ****
show/henry svs 11 *** 1/2

- Good thing I rewatched svs 11, went up alot, starts off slow but picked up and was very good match. Show's taped hands and arm drag :mark: I love fatties


May watch again the whole svs 11, in a uber wrestling mood which is rare for me, not watch sd as sd has gotten boring recently


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal you are forever my hero for making that Regal gif, I just laughed my ass off for a solid 2 minutes watching it over and over. So, so, funny. Gosh I love Regal.

Just downloaded the Benoit/Angle Ultimate submission match, seeing you rate it that highly has me very intrigued, I skipped your review of it because I didn't wanna ruin the suspense.

I have a love/hate relationship with RVD. Sometimes, he delivers in the most amazing way and I want to consider him one of my top 10 favorites ever. Other times when he mails it in and works loose and sloppy I get so frustrated. He is certainly one of a kind, dude could have owned the WWE if he had the passion of Punk. Eh, I'm sure he's happy with his legacy though, so I shouldn't let it bother me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

need something to watch in wwe post 06 or some wcw would be ok


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> need something to watch in wwe post 06 or some wcw would be ok


Not post '06, but did you see Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw at Survivor Series '05? Great, great, match. The time flew by, and Mysterio was a stud.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Not post '06, but did you see Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw at Survivor Series '05? Great, great, match. The time flew by, and Mysterio was a stud.


no I havent, I should I heard HHH/flair from that show is awesome too

I'm rewatching svs 11 right now bar the main event. I just finished ziggler/jomo the match sucked, but Ziggler's character performance is top notch. You see should check it out since you didnt watch during than, his 2011 character was one of the best in the last couple of year, played the young narcissistic egomaniac heel to a tee, the "original" show-off gimmick, I remember that phase :lmao "its not showing off if you can back it up"

team orton vs. team barrett time


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> no I havent, I should
> 
> I'm rewatching svs 11 right now bar the main event. I just finished ziggler/jomo the match sucked, but Ziggler's character performance is top notch. You see should check it out since you didnt watch during than, his 2011 character was one of the best in the last couple of year, played the young narcissistic egomaniac heel to a tee, the "original" show-off gimmick, I remember that phase :lmao "its not showing off if you can back it up"


HBK was in it too, so I think you'll really like it. It was a fun match.

I will check this out tonight or tomorrow!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> no I havent, I should I heard HHH/flair from that show is awesome too
> 
> I'm rewatching svs 11 right now bar the main event. I just finished ziggler/jomo the match sucked, but Ziggler's character performance is top notch. You see should check it out since you didnt watch during than, his 2011 character was one of the best in the last couple of year, played the young narcissistic egomaniac heel to a tee, the "original" show-off gimmick, I remember that phase :lmao "its not showing off if you can back it up"
> 
> team orton vs. team barrett time


Skins- I'm not sure how much of a Jericho fan you are, but I just watched 1 good and 1 great match from him earlier today:

Jericho vs Batista Cyber Sunday 2008 ***1/2
Jericho vs Cena Survivor Series 2007 ****1/4

Watching the Ultimate Submission match now, I'm through 10 minutes and it's been some mat wrestling bliss so far. Man, I would have LOVED to see a Regal/Finlay Ultimate Submission match :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll check that batista match out later, wasnt cena/y2j svs 08 ?


edit: watching team barrett entrances ziggler while walking out "Whos gonna follow me" " That I'm gonna follow me" :lmao

2011 seems like centuries ago in wwe land


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Currently watching SummerSlam 2013 on Blu Ray & so far it has been very :mark: just like I remember when I was there.

Next is Punk/Lesnar, this is gonna be my first time watching it since I saw the match live.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:mark: for Cal's rating of the Ultimate Submission match. Anything positive said about Angle/Benoit matches in here is always (Y).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> :mark: for Cal's rating of the Ultimate Submission match. Anything positive said about Angle/Benoit matches in here is always (Y).



This was the only Angle/Benoit match I hadn't seen, and pretty much the only hih profile Benoit match I had yet to see. As I said earlier, the Ultimate Submissions stip scared me away. Anywho, after seeing Cal's rating I decided to check it out.

God damn, now THAT was fucking good. I loved how they structured the match, 6 submissions in 30 minutes is enough to keep you on the edge of your seat the whole time. The selling done by Benoit with his leg is great, and watching these two just flow seamlessly through counter after counter was just awesome. It finishes in a draw, tied 3-3, and sudden death is in order. Benoit was close to tapping to the ankle lock to finish the match, so Kurt comes right back in to try and finish Benoit off, but the rabid wolverine just isn't having it, he manages to fight Angle off and they go back at it on the mat. Finally, Benoit rolls through and catches Angle with the cross face after about 2 minutes of sudden death.

With a stipulation like ultimate submissions, which could so easily have turned into a bore fest with less wrestlers, I can't believe how exciting they managed to keep it.

****1/4, bad ass. Happy I finally watched this.

Someone mentioned Benoit/Trips from Vengeance, I remember absolutely loving it the first time I saw it, but it's been over 3 years. Watching 1 Benoit match always makes me binge on the guy, same thing happens with Foley, Eddie, and Taker. I think ill fire up Vengeance and give that match a proper review.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The first half of HHH/Benoit from Vengeance '04 is really good, but it just doesn't go anywhere. The Eugene shit is a bad ending for a match that goes damn near 30 minutes. I gave it *** 1/4 on my last watch.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Just finished Punk/Lesnar and holy shit that match is even better then I thought when I saw it live :mark: :mark: :mark:

Now I can't wait to watch Bryan/Cena on my Blu Ray for the first time.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

God I'm fuckin pumped to watch the Summerslam blu ray too. I have a feeling EVERYTHING is gonna be better now since I was intoxicated the whole the way through watching it when it aired. I think I'll still have Bryan/Cena over Punk/Lesnar though, but we shall see.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit's bumps for the offense against him is fun though.

Oh and after watching most of SummerSlam 2013 right now, I'm adding the Ring of Fire match & Natalya vs Brie to my 2013 PPV like list thingy. The opener was a spectacle and I won't lie - I do have fun with it. Perhaps the booking for Bray wasn't the strongest, but it put the threat of Kane over strongly. Meh. I've never hated it like the lot. Deal with it. The divas match is shockingly solid so yeah. Who in the hell saw that coming? PPV is pure bliss.

Brock vs Punk leaves me exhausted and I've seen it about five times now. Perfect. A modern classic. 

:lenny :lenny :lenny :lenny :lenny /5


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> God I'm fuckin pumped to watch the Summerslam blu ray too. I have a feeling EVERYTHING is gonna be better now since I was intoxicated the whole the way through watching it when it aired. I think I'll still have Bryan/Cena over Punk/Lesnar though, but we shall see.


You should be pumped, this whole show is pretty GRAND if I do say so myself.

Bryan/Cena time :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> God I'm fuckin pumped to watch the Summerslam blu ray too. I have a feeling EVERYTHING is gonna be better now since I was intoxicated the whole the way through watching it when it aired. I think I'll still have Bryan/Cena over Punk/Lesnar though, but we shall see.


Really? Cena/Bryan was absolutely superb, but I think they have a better match in them. Brock/Punk was just absolute perfection. Highly doubt they could do better, only way I see it being possible is if they some how recaptured the same magic of the SS match inside a HiaC match with Punk getting busted open and doing his awesome FIP routine. But I just don't think its possible to top it, it was flawless in my eyes.

Not only is Brock/Punk my MotY, it would be MotY for 2011-2012 as well. Maybe even 2010, although I still think Michaels/Taker MIGHT be SLIGHTLY better. If at all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*SvS 2011

ziggler/morrison *
diva N/A
team Orton/team Barrett ***3/4-****
show/henry *** 1/2
punk/adr *
cena/rock vs. awesome truth DUD*​
OK ppv remember it being great, but still enjoyable. Very hot MSG crowd made the whole thing better

- The match sucked but like I said earlier, Ziggler's character performance in it is great, just a sample size of his 2011 glorious character wise.

- I dont watch diva matches

-MOTN IMO, but I love big tag matches so it helps, the worst part was actually the beginning with kofi/ziggler but it go much better after :lmao @ sin cara, so bad its funny and I like him more than most. Rhodes Huncio and Sheamus :mark: great in this . Orton played his part well too, they all did. Liked the finish, Cody doing the Orton pose lol

- pretty good after the rewatch, Henry kept getting out of the ring not wanting any part of a determined big show. The arm drag and the little mat-wrestling was great see to monster doing it. Good match

-Didnt like punk/adr this time, just a flat match, but memorable as to what Punk went on to doing

-We all know this terrible match :lmao, I'lll admit I like Awesome truth so I brought them in this match, but didnt they keeping getting destroyed by Cena alone in the build ?

Question I usually dont get into the whole dirt sheets, who has heat with who backstage, but what was the end result in the whole Orton/kofi thing ? the STUPID STUPID thingy was the real or just rumor ? or his character


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The problem I had with Lesnar/Punk was that I didn't buy into Lesnar tapping at any point because of how sloppy the submissions looked and the Heyman involvement in the last few minutes. They took way too long to set things up and it was really predictable what was about to happen next, i.e. Lesnar taking fucking forever to go out and grab that chair and Punk assaulting Heyman for way too long while Lesnar is fully recovering behind him. Don't get me wrong, I loved the match but didn't see how it was perfect or anywhere close to 5*. We'll see what my opinion is after I rewatch though.

These were my original thoughts the day after Summerslam: 



Spoiler: heufh



Last night was an absolute thrillride. Daniel Bryan beat John Cena CLEAN for the WWE Championship at one of the biggest PPVs of the year... and then Randy Orton fucking ruined it. I was (and still am) pretty pissed off about it. But whatever. My thoughts on the show:

*Cena vs. Bryan* may not have had the drama and the nearfalls that Punk/Taker did, but as an entire package from bell to bell I think I can say this is my new MOTY. Both guys did an absolutely astounding job of working off of one another. The strength Cena showed against Bryan's usual attempts at submissions was fantastic, the clothesline from hell out of desperation was fucking AWESOME, and those top rope spots were legitimately shocking. I thought Cena was gonna hit a Styles Clash.  The slapfest and the shock factor of the ending were both brilliant, even Bryan looked surprised he got the 3 count. Cena took all the strikes like a champ and Bryan did extremely well in taking all of Cena's bumps, ESPECIALLY that Liger Bomb and top rop leg drop. Great, great match. ***** 1/4 - **** 1/2

Brock vs. Punk* was hella good for the majority. Brock's control segment was beastly and I loved how he threw Punk around like he was nothing. It did have a really cool big fight feel to it like most of Brock's matches do. I do think some of Punk's offense looked weak as fuck and I believe seeing all the crazy shit that happened on RAW with them over the past couple weeks got our expectations a little high and led me to believe they'd pull out some even crazier stuff (but they didn't). Lots of nasty back shots with the chair and I loved Punk's top rope elbow with it but what really irked was all the slowness and predictability of the last 5 or 10 minutes. I was standing there yelling out everything that was gonna happen as Lesnar creeped out to grab a chair and as Heyman ruined every pinfall for Punk. Really good match still but I know they're capable of better. Put them inside Hell in a Cell and get rid of Heyman, then we've got a classic. OH and I almmost forgot, I couldn't buy into any of Punk's nearfalls or submissions. It just didn't look good enough for me. No way is Lesnar tapping to an Anaconda Vice or the Triangle Choke. No way. ***** - **** 1/4

Christian & Del Rio *went out there and killed it in the midcard. Damn good back and forth match with some ridiculously stiff kicks to the face. Ending sequence was really good and the match as a whole was just great. I'm starting to like Del Rio more and more as time goes on. **** 1/2 - *** 3/4*

Nothing else really stood out but none of it was awful either.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

SvS 2011 is still such a fun event. Best Survivor Series PPV since 2007, and prior to 2007 I would put it above everything until 2002.

Ziggler/Morrison: ****1/4*
10-Man-Tag: ****1/2*
Show/Henry: *****
Punk/ADR: ******
Main Event: ***1/2* (But what a moment!)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The problem I had with Lesnar/Punk was that I didn't buy into Lesnar tapping at any point because of how sloppy the submissions looked and the Heyman involvement in the last few minutes. They took way too long to set things up and it was really predictable what was about to happen next, i.e. Lesnar taking fucking forever to go out and grab that chair and Punk assaulting Heyman for way too long while Lesnar is fully recovering behind him. Don't get me wrong, I loved the match but didn't see how it was perfect or anywhere close to 5*. We'll see what my opinion is after I rewatch though.
> 
> These were my original thoughts the day after Summerslam:
> 
> ...



Man dude, I'd love to see if your opinion changes at all after a rewatch, Brock was driving me crazy because he legit looked like he was about to tap when he was in the triangle and the vise. I would have blown my stack if Brock had tapped (not because I hate punK, I LOVE Punk, he's my current favorite, it's just that Brock needed to win that one) so it kept me on the edge of my seat. The Heyman involvement fit perfectly for me. This wasn't a WWE title match, and Punk had no real beef with Brock, it was all Punk vs Heyman and Brock was just Heymans goon. It worked perfectly, and made for some great story telling in the ring.

Yea, I go back and forth because I don't like to give out 5 stars unless a match is truly a top 20 or so match in WWE history. That said, it's definitely ****3/4, but probably ***** in my eyes. Wouldn't change a damn thing. Brocks control segments were awesome, and I love how feisty Punk was, he wasn't just gonna lay there and take a beat down, he fought back at every opening he could find.

The most memorable part of the match was right in the beginning for me, when Brock just took Punk by the head and threw him over the announce table, picked him back up, then threw him over the second. That made me mark HARD. I was just like "Oh yea, this is Brock Lesnar here. He's an absolute BEAST". 

I put a Brock Lesnar control segment right up there with Takers and Vaders as the best monster beeat downs ever delivered.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187, I pretty much agree with your Summerslam ratings. You and I tend to think alike a lot, it seems.

Though I wouldn't really rate Cena/Bryan higher than Punk/Lesnar.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm glad you guys are appreciating the Henry/Show match, It's a good match.

Just finished SummerSlam 2013 & re-watching the whole show now just makes me appreciate how lucky I was to be there.

Brock/Punk was my MOTN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Did Lesnar and Angle ever have any other matches of note other than WM19, SS2003, and the Ironman match?

I was just thinking, WWE put them in their 25 greatest rivalries ever, and it seems odd if they only had the 3 major matches that I've seen. 

Even so, that beats out HBK-Bret, who only had 3 major matches and only 1 of them, SVS1997, is watchable. And we all know the shitty finish to that match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Survivor Series 2011 is meh. I can't put it over despite digging the opener & World Championship matches. Skins is dead on with how horrendous that main event is. :lmao @ it and everything it was. Those guys all suck except for Cena. Punk vs Del Rio is ass. So dull. Which kills me.

Finished SummerSlam 2013 again and I got to say, Cena vs Danielson is near perfect in of itself. Doesn't topple Brock vs Punk, but it comes pretty close. Those are two of the top matches this year. Brock vs Punk is my WWE MOTY, so that says it all.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> SvS 2011 is still such a fun event. Best Survivor Series PPV since 2007, and prior to 2007 I would put it above everything until 2002.
> 
> Ziggler/Morrison: ****1/4*
> 10-Man-Tag: ****1/2*
> ...


No way in hell would I put it above 2003, 2004 or 2005.



Cactus Jack said:


> I was just thinking, WWE put them in their 25 greatest rivalries ever, and it seems odd if they only had the 3 major matches that I've seen.


They also had a match in Japan I think. But in WWE, those three are it. Makes it that more special since they main evented Wrestlemania in one and had two classics with the other two.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Survivor Series 2011 is meh. I can't put it over despite digging the opener & World Championship matches. Skins is dead on with how horrendous that main event is. :lmao @ it and everything it was. Those guys all suck except for Cena. Punk vs Del Rio is ass. So dull. Which kills me.
> 
> Finished SummerSlam 2013 again and I got to say, Cena vs Danielson is near perfect in of itself. Doesn't topple Brock vs Punk, but it comes pretty close. Those are two of the top matches this year. Brock vs Punk is my WWE MOTY, so that says it all.


I have Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls as my #2 and Cena/Bryan as my #3 behind Lesnar-Punk for MotY, but they are really interchangeable as I love them both so much. Can only imagine what it was like to be there and witness them live.

Edit-C2D, I see what you mean, it's just hard for me to understand how they can put Angle-Lesnar above rivalries like Eddie-Rey and Trips/Foley. Those guys had rivalries spreading dozens of matches over several years. Eddie-Rey in particular should be top 10, no question.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

agree with Jack Evans as well. Too much Heyman interference at the end for my liking. Also as mentioned, just didn't buy him ever doing enough damage to pin him and putting submissions on him was the biggest lol ever.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> They also had a match in Japan I think.


they did in New Japan. it was terrible.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Lesnar *****
cena/bryan ****1/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Where was all this agreement when I actually posted these thoughts on Summerslam? 

I actually like the Lesnar/Angle match from Japan. Think the company was Inoki's IGF Battleground or some shit like that, but I had a lot of fun with it. It's not on the level of their WWE matches, but it's still good imo, although I'm in the minority for some reason.

-----------------------

So fuck this Kane set. I'm tired of watching Kane all the time so I'm stopping and starting my *DEL RIO PROJECT!~* I'm gonna watch every single Del Rio match that I own in chronological order up until I just decide to stop. But I'm in a big time Del Rio mood after our recent talks. Got me all fired up about the guy. Anywho, here's ratings for the last two matches I watched from the Kane set:

Kane vs. Shawn Michaels (Unforgiven '04 No DQ) - *** (Kane outworked Michaels HARD in this one)
Kane vs. Gene Snitsky (RAW somewhere in the beginning of '05 No DQ) - *** (lot of fun with an awesome ending)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

You guys are tempting me to watch my SummerSlam 2013 DVD again.  That event's always gonna be special to me because it was my first attended PPV in 8 years at that point (last one was Vengeance 2005) and my first really big show. I'm hoping to go to Mania one day :mark:

Despite not liking Angle/Lesnar from New Japan, I still like their matches a lot. I remember when I was a kid, I was convinced that it was gonna be face Angle vs. heel Lesnar at WMXX, especially after Angle made Cena tap at NWO 04. Then Eddie pinned Bork and I screamed like a little boy.

Probably because I WAS a little boy. :side:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching Bret v Pegasus from 1999 at the Owen benefit show. I have some friends who were there that night. Emotional moment and a fantastic match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Saw people pimping the Show/Sheamus HIAC match a few page back and I had to comment.

The GOAT big man match. Both wrestlers reek of awesomeness. Sheamus being the intense work horse he is while Show is the athletic giant. Sheamus beating his chest in the corner as he was preparing for the brogue kick while being a beet red ginger is a picture worth a thousand words. And not one, but TWO KO punches in the match :mark:

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm not a big fan of Sheamus or Big Show's characters at all, but their matches against each other were awesome. Can't go wrong with two guys beating the living shit out of each other. :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> Can't go wrong with two guys beating the living shit out of each other. :mark:


You might needta talk to somebody. I say this as a friend.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

:lol Hm...let me rephrase that. Nothing like a physical, stiff, contest between two large, burly men. Wait a minute...:angle2


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> :lol Hm...let my rephrase that. Nothing like a physical, stiff, contest between two large, burly men. Wait a minute...:angle2


Hey I'm not judging. :cool2


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I want to see Big Show as WWE Champion fuck Orton

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

*Survivor Series 1996*











*The Sultan, Bradshaw, Salvatore Sincere & Billy Gunn vs. Aldo Montoya, Jesse James, Bob Holly & Bart Gunn - ½★*

Just a jobber match that even WWF doesn't give a shit about. They cut to a Bret/Austin hype video in the middle of it and the eliminations are done almost back to back. It's funny to see the likes of Rikishi (Sultan), JBL (Bradshaw) and Bob Holly looking completely different and irrelevant.

*Doug Furnas, Phil Lafon and The Godwinns vs. Owen Hart, British Bulldog, Marty Jannetty and Leif Cassidy - ★★*

While I'm at least a little familiar with all the members of the losing team, I know absolutely NOTHING about the winning team apart from having heard of the Godwinns at some point. The action here is better than the previous match but it still feels like the match drags and is far too long. I guess my lack of knowledge or interest in half the participants causes my indifference but despite some good parts, this is decent at best.










*Undertaker vs. Mankind - ★★½*

LOL @ Paul Bearer being locked in a cage and lifted above the ring so he's safe from the Undertaker. Having watched the boiler room brawl a week or so ago, I am a bit more familiar with the story going into this as Taker tries to get his hands on Bearer after the SummerSlam betrayal. These two have a chemistry that most praise, I haven't seen much of their work yet and this is my third match after King of the Ring 98 and SummerSlam 96. This is probably my least favorite of the bunch. Felt a bit plodding and boring in parts. There were some cool parts like the counters with the mandible claw and chokeslam as well as the ending when Taker _almost_ had Bearer until The Executioner (another name I don't recognize) attacked him.










*Marc Mero, Rocky Maivia, Jake Roberts and The Stalker vs. Crush, Jerry Lawler, Hunter Hearst Helmsley and Goldust - ★★*

Feels like a bit of a clusterfuck and isn't really all that beside the historic significance with a young Dwayne Johnson making his debut and being the sole survivor. His haircut is so hilarious. It's funny how right the announcers were when talking about his bright future, only it didn't go down the way they probably meant. It also lasted way too long imo. (the match, not Rock's career, lol)










*Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin - ★★★★½*

Wow, this was just jaw dropping being as good as it is. Last time I remember a solid match that didn't hold a candle to Wrestlemania 13 but was still great. This time, I see a match nearly as good as that one with wonderful work from both guys and amazing storytelling. Austin is the standout performer, though. Bret is the beloved veteran looking to prove that he's still got it while Austin is the edgy loudmouth up and comer looking to make a name for himself at the expense of "the man" in the company, who happens to be Bret. The wrestling in this one is top notch and Austin really shows what he's capable of by controlling a large part of it with some excellent heelish offense and destroying Bret by getting the upper-hand through sneaky tactics like countering a backbreaker with an eye rake and then using the environment inside and outside the ring to his advantage. The way he works over Bret is pure excellence and gets fans behind Bret and if I heard right, they even start to cheer Austin towards the end. Great display of desperation by Austin too as his wrist-tape goes loose and instead of adjusting it, he just takes it off altogether. The submission exchanges are also worth mentioning, specially towards the end when Austin runs out of ideas and ways to put down Bret so goes for a retro move with the Cobra Clutch/Million Dollar Dream only for Bret to use his knowledge around the ring to cleverly counter and turn it into a rollup that wins him the match.










*Faarooq, Vader, Fake Razor and Fake Diesel vs. Flash Funk, Jimmy Snuka, Savio Vega, and Yokozuna - 0*

I called the previous elimination match a bit of a clusterfuck but it looks so clean compared to this one. This match is throwaway almost as bad as the opener and goes into a no finish when somebody introduces a steel chair into the match and that's pretty much it. A complete mess is the easiest way to put it.










*Shawn Michaels vs Sycho Sid - ★★★*

Not really feeling this one very much. I may need to know the backstory because all the stuff with Jose whatever his name is felt like the centerpiece rather than a one-on-one title match between the two. Shawn does his usual showstopper stuff plus some legwork on Sid then towards the end Sid introduces the camera by attacking Jose which takes Shawn's head out of the game, causing Sid to capitalize by using the distraction to attack Shawn with a camera and powerbomb him for the win. It was pretty weird to see Sid use a chokeslam since I'm used to seeing guys with singlets or long tights use the move and not someone in a traditional wrestling attire. I find it a bit hard to describe because I don't know the build-up or even the heel/face alignments for the two. Good match for the 20 minutes they get but I may need to watch it again in order to have a more clear opinion on it.

*Overall: ★★★¼ out of ★★★★★ (Far from the best Survivor Series show I've seen but Bret/Austin alone brings it up quite a bit and other than a couple of elimination matches, the rest of the show isn't horrible either.)*​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Del Rio Project - Post 1

:adr​
*Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio (_Smackdown - August 20, 2010_)

HELLS YES. This is the in ring debut on Friday Night Smackdown for Mr. Del Rio, who's talked up quite a game and been hyped up for weeks before this. Ricardo in 2010 looks like he just got out of high school and he's like 30 pounds lighter.  We get just a sample of what Del Rio can offer as the new-faced, relentless, left-arm attacking heel defeats a former World Heavyweight Champion and first ballot Hall of Famer in his FUCKING DEBUT. Clean tapout to the cross armbreaker. He apparently fractured his wrist in the process. Not a great match by any means but a decent Smackdown main event. This match can be found on Disc 3 of _The Best of Smackdown 2009-10_. 

** 1/2

-------------------------------------------

Alberto Del Rio vs. Matt Hardy (_Smackdown - September 10, 2010_)

The coming out party for Del Rio continues as we have another one of his early matches against Mattitude. Pretty basic match all around unfortunately. Hardy comes in with an injured left ankle because (I believe) Del Rio wrapped it up in a chair last week, but for some reason it never comes into play during the match, despite Matt constantly limping around on it. Del Rio hits a WONDERFUL looking enziguri that gains him the upper hand early, but his control segment was nothing but headlocks. Matt makes a comeback eventually and hits a couple quick moves and an ugly lookin moonsault before getting caught on the top rope, rammed into the ringpost, and taps out to the cross armbreaker. Rather uninspiring contest, but it can be found as a blu ray extra on _The Best of Smackdown 2009-10._

** 1/4

-------------------------------------------

Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio (_Smackdown - October 8, 2010_)

YES YES YES. :mark: I love this match, tbhayley. This is Mysterio's return to action after Del Rio fractured his left wrist, so he's out for revenge. Mysterio comes out fucking guns a blazing, giving Del Rio a taste of his own medicine on the outside by smashing his left arm into the steel steps and hitting a BEAUTIFUL top rope cross body all the way to the floor. Brilliant return for Rey until Del Rio finds an opening and hits his gorgeous springing enziguri while Mysterio's on the top rope, then we get to see more of the vicious side of Del Rio. The latter half of the match is so much fun, loaded with great spots and counters, i.e. Rey's desperation sunset flip powerbomb off the top rope (seriously close nearfall I might add) and Del Rio's powerslam counter to Rey running off the ropes. The finish comes when Ricardo runs up on the ring apron but Mysterio is able to head scissor Del Rio into Ricardo, knocking him off and setting ADR up for the 619 and top rope splash. Great match and probably their best singles encounter for my money (as of now at least). This match can be found on Disc 3 of _Rey Mysterio: The Life of a Masked Man_.

*** 1/4​


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

You know what I'm here for. 

Glad you loved Austin/Hart! Yes, that was a star-making performance for Austin, even in the company's own eyes.

Here's what he said about it:


> "I remember when Bret Hart had his comeback match at Madison Square Garden. It was around 1996. He handpicked me to be his opponent. I just felt honored that he picked me to have that match with. That I could handle a guy, and stay with a guy, of Bret's caliber. It meant a lot to the company, as they kept escalating me, and pushing me harder."


So I think that it showed the company a lot too. Like aside from his character, he could really go in the ring.

I agree with you about the submission moves, and also about Austin heeling it up magnificently. 

Just love that match. Felt like a heavyweight fight. Vince actually stood up and applauded for Bret afterward, right there in the announcer's chair, as Bret walked by. He was like "incredible, incredible", and reached out to shake Bret's hand. Love that, because I felt his excitement on the mic too, toward the end of the match.

As for the rest, I don't really remember most of the matches. But ah, the Godwinns! lol. I really liked them as a kid. :lol

Also, don't remember much of the HBK/Sid match, but I probably liked it, because I like the both of them. Did you notice Shawn getting mad at the crowd? For some reason MSG was big on Sid, and they were over Shawn's baby face character. So they started booing Shawn, and he got pissed. Shawn never used to hide his anger back then at all, lol. 

He talks in his book about how frustrated he was that night with the crowd.

That match is something I'm definitely going to have to re-watch.



ETA: Jack Evans 187, I can't rep you again, but I want to say thanks! This is yet another helpful guide when I go back and watch some old ADR stuff. Gonna stay away from reading the actual reviews right now, as I don't want to be spoiled (though I'm sure that ADR must win a lot, considering how pushed he is). I will read them once I watch some of those matches, though. (Y)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

No, didn't notice Shawn getting mad at the crowd. But I did watch it with the volume pretty low and sleepy. Even more reason to give it another try as soon as I'm in the mood.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

THE DEL RIO PROJECT.

I approve immensely with this.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I'm rewatching svs 11 right now bar the main event. I just finished ziggler/jomo the match sucked, but Ziggler's character performance is top notch. You see should check it out since you didnt watch during than, his 2011 character was one of the best in the last couple of year, played the young narcissistic egomaniac heel to a tee, the "original" show-off gimmick, I remember that phase :lmao "its not showing off if you can back it up"





redskins25 said:


> *SvS 2011
> 
> ziggler/morrison **​
> 
> - The match sucked but like I said earlier, Ziggler's character performance in it is great, just a sample size of his 2011 glorious character wise.


Wtf, one star, really? I thought it was an enjoyable match. Like, I was thoroughly entertained. So weird. I'd have it in the *** 1/4 range, easily.

Also, lol, I just realized that Zack Ryder is not Heath Slater. Weird. I was picturing Heath Slater the whole time. :lmao Wtf is Zack Ryder doing right now? He was pretty over here. I'm gonna have to dodge tomatoes here, but I actually got a Daniel Bryan vibe, in terms of Zack's popularity and just the overall crowd vibe at that point. 

Anywhoo, yeah, Ziggler was fun, but was basically just being his normal self, I thought. Just a little more boisterous. I'm wondering if he was really annoyed by all of the Zack Ryder chants, and if that annoyance showed through in his post-match speech. It's got to suck that the crowd is thoroughly behind the guy looking to take your spot. Therefore, I think there was a genuine annoyance to Ziggler's rant, and that's why he was especially showboaty. It worked perfectly with the character, though, so I dunno.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched the Raw show after Survivor Series 96. Mankind and Austin had a good little match opening the show and SID cut an intense promo as champion. These 1 hour shows are so easy and fun to watch. Has that nice old school atmosphere that I really dig.



LilOlMe said:


> Also, lol, I just realized that Zack Ryder is not Heath Slater. Weird. I was picturing Heath Slater the whole time. :lmao Wtf is Zack Ryder doing right now? He was pretty over here. I'm gonna have to dodge tomatoes here, but I actually got a Daniel Bryan vibe, in terms of Zack's popularity at that point.


Simply put, he got over without WWE's support or help therefore they cashed in on the fad temporarily then tossed him to the curb and nowadays he's lucky to get one minute of TV time where he'll be getting squashed. To WWE's credit, Ryder is not very talented and very gimmicky so there's not much use in him apart from maybe a midcard spot.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nah ziggler and Ryder are good buds they were feuding during that time ziggler was just playing with the crowd,
Ryder was over back then cuz I his online show and svs was in NYC were Ryder is from (although of u know the area Long Island is nowhere near the city)

The crowd was HOT during that match which was good

Ryder sucks


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Just watched the Raw show after Survivor Series 96. Mankind and Austin had a good little match opening the show and SID cut an intense promo as champion. These 1 hour shows are so easy and fun to watch. Has that nice old school atmosphere that I really dig.
> 
> 
> 
> Simply put, he got over without WWE's support or help therefore they cashed in on the fad temporarily then tossed him to the curb and nowadays he's lucky to get one minute of TV time where he'll be getting squashed. To WWE's credit, Ryder is not very talented and very gimmicky so there's not much use in him apart from maybe a midcard spot.


Sid was fun. Also forgot to say that I agreed with you about Austin's wrist tape in the SvS match.

I agree about him seeming gimmicky, just from the small bit I've seen here. Yeah, I literally don't even think I've seen him on tv. I thought maybe I was getting him confused with Slater because he was in 3MB too, but he's not even in that. :lol

Watching NHB now, btw.




redskins25 said:


> Nah ziggler and Ryder are good buds they were feuding during that time ziggler was just playing with the crowd,
> Ryder was over back then cuz I his online show and svs was in NYC were Ryder is from (although of u know the area Long Island is nowhere near the city)
> 
> The crowd was HOT during that match which was good


I had a feeling it was NYC. Had that type of vibe.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea we have pretty good fans up here good mix of casuals and smarks


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What did everyone think of Edge's documentary from _You Think You Know Me_?

Also, would you say the RAW match against Orton in '04, the TLC match with Del Rio/Kane/Mysterio, and the Mania match with Del Rio would warrant a purchase from me? I literally have every other damn match on that set, but I kinda want the last two for my Del Rio project and I have a feeling the Orton match is pretty good. Never seen TLC and haven't seen seen the Mania match since it aired.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What did everyone think of Edge's documentary from _You Think You Know Me_?
> 
> Also, would you say the RAW match against Orton in '04, the TLC match with Del Rio/Kane/Mysterio, and the Mania match with Del Rio would warrant a purchase from me? I literally have every other damn match on that set, but I kinda want the last two for my Del Rio project and I have a feeling the Orton match is pretty good. Never seen TLC and haven't seen seen the Mania match since it aired.


The documentary was good and went through his whole career in detail I thought.

Which Orton match is it? 5/10, 19/7 or 13/12? Doesn't make a difference since they all rule but I'm just curious. Any DVD with any of those three is worth owning imo.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Orton match is July 19th. The Vengeance rematch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, you want the Del Rio matches, so adding the Orton match makes it only better therefore I think it's worth getting, specially with the documentary being there as a bonus.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You sir, make logical points. $12 won't hurt. Ordered. (Y)

Now if can find this fucking Raw/Smackdown 2012 blu ray ANYWHERE for less than $25...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Del Rio Project - Post 2

*:adr

*Traditional 5-on-5 Elimination Match
*Team Del Rio (Alberto Del Rio, Jack Swagger, Cody Rhodes, Drew McIntyre, & Tyler Reks) vs. Team Mysterio (Rey Mysterio, Big Show, MVP, Chris Masters, & Kofi Kingston) (_Survivor Series 2010_)

So this match was like WAY more fun that I remembered. Del Rio was sadly only involved in the first half. He tripped up MVP and held his feet down while he was pinned by McIntyre (which was great because they were in MVP's hometown of Miami), then he made Masters tap to the cross armbreaker. Del Rio's team was in total control until Big Show entered the ring and a hilarious moment ensued. Del Rio went to tag out and no one wanted to, so he went over and slapped McIntyre's chest, then strutted back over to Big Show, smiled and winked at him. Big Show knocked him the fuck out. :lol Really wish I had a gif of it. Del Rio was carried out and never seen again. Shitty way for your captain to go out, but it was entertaining at least. A couple minutes later they topped that hilarious piece with a moment where Kofi slapped Cody Rhodes in the face and he WENT NUTS. I was fucking rolling. :lmao He started kicking the ropes, ran outside to check his mirror, ripped off the top of the announce table, ran back in and gets knocked out by Big Show. Fucking great. The rest of the match was just red hot fun with Swagger tearing it up with Rey & Big Show, locking in ankle lock after ankle lock. Rey's team eventually squashed Swagger & Drew, but the name of the game here was FUN. One of the several gems on the rock solid undercard on that ppv.

*** 1/4

------------------------------------------

*2 out of 3 Falls Match
*Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio (_Smackdown - January 7, 2011_)

The 4 month rivalry between these two guys finally comes to a close... as they meet on Smackdown once again. Sucks these guys never went one on one on ppv because I know they're capable of producing something really great. But anywho, another good match between the two. Del Rio wins the first fall in quick fashion with the cross armbreaker, and I really appreciated that the work on Rey's arm continued throughout the ENTIRE match, all three falls. Gotta love that Del Rio psychology. :agree: Rey would go on to win the 2nd fall with a beautiful looking magistral cradle, then they went all out on the 3rd fall. Some hella good back and forths action, the only real negative was the finish. Mysterio hit a dive to the floor on Del Rio & Ricardo, tossed Del Rio back in, then Ricardo grabbed Rey's foot where the ref couldn't see and that led to Rey getting counted out and losing the match. Sort of an odd way to end a feud, but Rey got his revenge by beating up Ricardo afterwards so whatever. Del Rio's reaction to winning was pretty great too. Goes from a 'what, I won?' look to his usual chest slapping celebration. Very good match but I still have their 10/8/10 encounter over it. Btw, this was the main event to an absolutely STACKED edition of SD (look up that card) and can be found on _The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2011_.

*** 1/4

--------------------------------------------

*Steel Cage Match
*Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian (_Smackdown - March 18, 2011_)

I've never quite liked this match as much as others. I can't really explain why, it's just feels... there. Good opening part with them climbing along the ropes, then Del Rio hits the samoan drop and takes control for a while. I liked his stiffness in this one. He just kicked the shit out of Christian countless times. Other than Del Rio working stiff and Chrstian hitting the killswitch late in the match, there's really not much else to this. Just a lot of slow climbing from Del Rio. Finish is kinda meh. Good match, but one of their weaker encounters imo. Also found on _The Best of RAW & Smackdown 2011.

_***​


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Seeming as Cena's coming back to take the belt of Del Rio soon. Heres my top 10 favourite Cena matches.

1. V Punk MITB *****
2. V HBK WM 23 ****3/4
3. V Punk Raw 2012 ****1/2
4. V Brock Lesnar ER ****1/2
5. V DB SS ****1/2
6. V HBK V HHH SS ****1/4
7. V HBK Raw 07 ****1/4
8. V Punk NOC/SS ****1/4
9. V Orton SS 07 ****
10. V HHH NOC ****

Fuck the Cena V Edge matches. Maybe the most overrated set of matches ever.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

It's funny. The thought of Cena as WWE Champion again is almost sickening yet the thought of Cena as WHC is wonderful. If he doesn't win and/or Sandow cashes in it's going to suck so bad.

*vs. Lesnar - ****3/4
vs. Umaga - ****3/4*

I'm not too sure about the snowflakes for the rest but those would be his 2 best imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BOOOOOO at your not quite liking of the Christian cage match (ha, Christian. Cage. Christian Cage. LOLOLOLOL) with Del Rio. Thought it was better than any of the Rey matches. Then the non cage Christian matches were even better :mark:.

Honestly don't like anything Del Rio did for like, the first year and a half of his career aside from the Christian matches lol.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Jeff Jarrett's first WWE theme cracks me up. "There are great WWF superstars and there's...me!" :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bring on the Del Rio haters! 











Don't worry Cal, I love pretty much all the rest of the Christian matches. Their Ladder match is coming up next in the project, which MAY just end up being the best match in ADR's WWE career.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: love me that ladder match. Definitely Del Rio's best match imo. Ziggler match at PB is the only one close to it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It's gonna be my 4th viewing, which should probably tell you how much I like it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've seen it 3 times I think lol. First watch of the PPV, again to settle on a rating, and one more time when I got the Ladder Match 2 Bluray .

Watching SummerSlam 01 atm :mark:.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> Seeming as Cena's coming back to take the belt of Del Rio soon. Heres my top 10 favourite Cena matches.
> 
> 1. V Punk MITB *****
> 2. V HBK WM 23 ****3/4
> ...




My cena top 10: 

1. Vs Punk MITB ****3/4
2. Vs HBK WM 23 ****3/4
3. Vs Umaga RR 07 ****1/2
4. Vs HBK raw ****1/2
5. Vs Lesnar ER 12 ****1/2
6. Vs Punk NOC 12 ****1/4
7. Vs Edge TLC 06 ****1/4
8. Vs Bryan SS 13 ****1/4
9. Vs Jericho SS 05 ****1/4
10. Vs JBL I quit JD 05 ****1/4

I don't understand how cena/edge matches are overrated when no one really raves about them so much. 

I recently just watched Cena/jbl I quit.... What a fucking bloodbath! Love it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> My cena top 10:
> 
> 1. Vs Punk MITB ****3/4
> 2. Vs HBK WM 23 ****3/4
> ...




They are overrated because WWE puts them over as this classic amazing rivalry, I mean Christ it made the top 12 on 25 Greatest rivalries set, that's silly. Atleast in my mind. It was a good rivalry but top 12?? No way.

Love that JBL I quit, absolute carnage.

Here are my top Cena matches

1. Vs Punk MitB 2011 *****
2. Vs Lesnar ER12 *****
3. Vs Bryan SS13 ****1/2
4. Vs Punk Raw 2013 ****1/2
5. Vs HBK Raw 2007 ****1/2
6. Vs Umaga RR ****1/2
7. Vs HBK WM23 ****1/2
8. Vs Punk NOC ****1/2
9. Vs Ziggler Ladder Match ****1/2
10 vs JBL I Quit ****1/4
11. Vs Jericho SVS ****1/4
12. Vs Jericho SS ****1/4


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Best matches of January 2003 

Smackdown 01/09 - Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin ***1/2
Smackdown 01/09 - Tajiri vs. Jamie Noble (w/Nidia) ***
Smackdown 01/16 - Edge & Chris Benoit vs. Team Angle (Charlie Haas, Shelton Benjamin and Kurt Angle) ***1/2
Smackdown 01/23 - Chris Benoit vs. Charlie Haas (w/Shelton Benjamin) ***3/4
Smackdown 01/23 - Rey Mysterio vs. Kurt Angle (w/Paul Heyman) ***
Smackdown 01/30 - Rey Mysterio vs. A-Train ***
Smackdown 01/30 - Chris Benoit & Edge vs. Team Angle (w/Kurt Angle) ***1/2 - ***3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Austin/Angle is up next on SS :mark:. Taking a break though since I've just sat through the rest of the show in one sitting. Don't wanna get burnt out during THIS match lol.

Think I've done 3 gifs for this PPV already lol :lmao. And only one of them is a comedy one .


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> They are overrated because WWE puts them over as this classic amazing rivalry, I mean Christ it made the top 12 on 25 Greatest rivalries set, that's silly. Atleast in my mind. It was a good rivalry but top 12?? No way.
> 
> Love that JBL I quit, absolute carnage.
> 
> ...




Their actual fued was tremendous, edge was playing a great heel. Like him going in cenas dads house and slapping him.... Shit like that. I still have edge cenas biggest rivalry IMO. It was literally the only good thing about 2006.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Possible new HBK DVD/BD being released early next year: *Shawn Michaels WrestleMania Matches*

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/first-major-wwe-dvd-2014-shawn-michaels/52819/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

As ridiculous as that sounds considering damn near all of those post Mania XI matches have been released countless times, I could actually end up buying it for The Rockers matches and singles with Tito, Tatanka, and Diesel.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Won't be picking up HBK's WM set. Got all the WM's on DVD and Bluray (the ones that have been release) and the only WM matches of his I'd WANT in HD I've got in HD (WM 25 and 26). Plus, his WM matches are mostly overrated to shit . I'm happy with my UNDERTAKER STREAK BLURAY thank you very much .


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Goldust/Cody vs. The Wyatts is a lot of fun, Goldust was great at the start...the interaction with Rowan has to be seen. 

Harper :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Del Rio Project - Post 3
*
*









**Draft Pick on the Line
*Team RAW (Alberto Del Rio, CM Punk, & The Miz) vs. Team SmackDown (John Cena, Christian, & Mark Henry) (_RAW - April 25, 2011_)

Those are some pretty stacked teams, and for those who are baffled by Cena being a member of Team SD, this was on the Draft edition of RAW where he was drafted to SD after the first match of the night. So we have this as our main event. The only interactions Del Rio had in the match were with Christian, but that was the bulk of the match so I can't complain there. Christian was isolated for a while until he's able to hit a tornado ddt and tag in Cena, then the shit GOES DOWN. Mark Henry randomly runs in, CLOTHESLINES Cena and takes his head off, casually walks out, grabs Christian, slams him on top the steel steps, then walks out. The crowd is STUNNED. My reaction: :mark: This would mark the beginning of Henry's Hall of Pain run, and we all know how that turned out. Oh and Miz hits the SCF to pin Cena and win the draft choice, but Cena would just get drafted right back to RAW. All in all an ultra fun, historic match with a molten crowd. A blu ray exclusive on _Extreme Rules 2011.

_***

-------------------------------------

*Ladder Match for the Vacant World Heavyweight Championship*
Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian (_Extreme Rules 2011_)

I've seen this match 4 times now and I'm sure many of you have seen it as well, so I'm not gonna say too much about it. Besides a couple weird moments in the opening minutes, I pretty much love everything else about the match. Del Rio's psychology was on full display pulling out some awesome ways to attack the arm and they pulled out some nifty spots along the way too. Del Rio's flop onto the ladder is hilarious, but my favorite part of the match is the Brodus Clay interference right when Christian has his hands on the title. Then there's just blood everywhere.  Great match but I always flip flop on a rating. This time, I'll go with:

*** 3/4 

---------------------------------------

*Triple Threat #1 Contender's Match
*Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz vs. Rey Mysterio (_RAW - May 9, 2011_)

This one's gonna be short as well. Mysterio tore it up here, pretty much saved the match. The bulk of this was pretty slow with Del Rio in control while he kept Miz outside the ring and beat up on Rey. The last several minutes are a lot of fun and I liked the way Miz snuck out a win, but I don't think this should've gone as long as it did. Watch it for Mysterio and that's about it. Blu ray extra on _Over The Limit 2011.

_** 3/4

*** Due to me being able to find things for download on XWT, the next few posts in the project will be out of chronological order. But expect more Christian and more Mysterio! The forgotten matches!***​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> They are overrated because WWE puts them over as this classic amazing rivalry, I mean Christ it made the top 12 on 25 Greatest rivalries set, that's silly. Atleast in my mind. It was a good rivalry but top 12?? No way.
> 
> Love that JBL I quit, absolute carnage.
> 
> ...


Interesting you have this that high, could I ask what you saw in it ? Haven't seen any of those Y2J matches




zep81 said:


> Possible new HBK DVD/BD being released early next year: *Shawn Michaels WrestleMania Matches*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/first-major-wwe-dvd-2014-shawn-michaels/52819/


Definitely a must buy, blu ray :mark:



Edit: @ Corey shocked you have that christian cage (lol) match that low as well, but also how high you have the Rey matches to , interesting


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Possible new HBK DVD/BD being released early next year: *Shawn Michaels WrestleMania Matches*
> 
> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/first-major-wwe-dvd-2014-shawn-michaels/52819/


Benoit vs HBK vs HHH from Wrestlemania XX being released on DVD in 2014? I'm not dreaming, am I? :ex:


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

You know what I just noticed? Taker had faced (and defeated) every evolution member at wrestlemania 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Evolution: Jobbers to The Undertaker!

Finishing up SS 01 review. Last match now. Rock Vs Booker. What a shitty ending to this PPV lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF SummerSlam 2001*

LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR~!


*Lance Storm Vs Edge - WWF Intercontinental Championship Match*

So this would be Storm's first and ONLY singles match on PPV during his entire time in WWF!

If I could be serious for a minute... I wish Albert was still the IC champ. ALBERT in singles matches in PPV for the IC title would have been :mark:. Instead Edge ends up winning this (OMG SPOILER) and goes on to have a pretty shitty reign until Christian wins it and does the same until Edge wins it back and does the same until REGAL gets involved.

I *think* the fans chant "Lance Storm Sucks" but honestly it sounds like "Angle Sucks" instead :lmao.

Solid work on the mid-section by Mr Storm. Edge is selling it well for now. We shall see how he does towards the end of the match lol.

Huh, Storm seems to be focusing on the back of Edge now. Eh, all kinda the same. Still the middle of Edge's body, and both sides getting attacked will help Storm with his HALF BOSTON CRAP submission.

CHRIS BENOIT MENTION~!

Nice counter by Edge hitting a powerslam off a Crossbody attempt. Was done in a way that was completely believable given where Storm has been working Edge over too. Was less power and catching storm and more of just using Storm's momentum against him.

HALF BOSTON CRAB was applied awesomely. He slid under Edge and rolled into it :mark:.

SPEAR TO EDGE BY CHRISTIAN! SUPERKICK TO CHRISTIAN BY STORM! Storm covers Edge, but a SPEAR to injured mid-section still ain't enough to put him away. DDT and Edge wins the belt.

Fun opener, and we gots a new IC champ. Decent match, but I've seen ***1/2 ratings for this over the years and I honestly don't understand them lol.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Test cuts a pretty good promo. Love how he's the heel because the WWF TURNED ON HIM essentially forcing him to join the Alliance. HE'S THE FECKING BABYFACE lol. Ah well.

Jericho and LILLIAN FAP FAP. Talking about STEPHANIE FAP FAP and all the times she's had sex. 


*The APA & Spike Dudley Vs The Dudley Boys & Test*

:mark: APA on PPV.

Back suplex into a neckbreaker is busted out about 30 seconds into the match lol, and WELL DONE to the crowd for NOT screaming "THREEEEE DEEEEE" like retards. 

:mark: Dudleys and APA just beat the shit out of each other for the first few minutes. We definitely needed a big tag title match on PPV between those two teams during this time.

Spike tags in and I am disappointed... then he takes on EPIC flapjack onto the ropes and I end up smiling .

Table gets set up on the outside and Test teases launching Spike over the ropes though it :mark:. But Spike counters and nobody goes through it .

Hot tag to Bradshaw :mark:. Absolutely RUNS OVER Test :mark:. Sweet JEBUS at the big boot to D-Von!

BIG BRAWL BETWEEN EVERYONE :mark:. POWERBOMB TO TEST~!

Spike back in the ring and :mark: he gets launched through the table anyway!!!!

CLOTHESLINE FROM MOTHERFUCKING HELL~!

Shane with a chair shot to Bradshaw! Test and The Dudleys get the win.

:mark: So this is uber fun. 

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


SEEDS OF A CHRISTIAN HEEL TURN~!

SHAWN STASIAK~! He walks in on Debra. Sadly she is fully clothed and just randomly stood about. She tells him to go impressive Austin by KICKING SOME BUTT.


*Tajiri Vs X-Pac - WWF Lightheavyweight & WCW Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Title for title match :mark:.

TAJIRI :mark:.

X-PAC :mark:.

Always found it odd that they never put X-Pac in the Alliance. He was in WCW for a period, and he's still getting treated as a heel despite being on Team WWF, and he wrestled other WWF guys on PPV during this time anyway lol.

You know that spot where someone uses the ropes to do a backflip out of an armlock or something? I hate it. Here however, they do it in the middle of the ring... with X-Pac grabbing hold of the REFEREE in place of the ropes!!! :mark:

:lmao X-Pac takes down Tajiri and slaps his head like a cocky cunt, then when he stand up to celebrate Tajiri sweeps his legs and does the same .

Tajiri's nuts meet the ringpost, and X-Pac follows it up with a STIFF kick to his back which he's still balls deep in the ring post :mark:.

SURFBOARD~! X-Pac doesn't quite get the balance right and Tajiri starts falling to the side, so X-Pac just rolls through and goes right back into another surfboard! Looks damn impressive and was a pretty awesome save lol.

KICKS~!

:lmao Tajiri is about to climb the ropes, and he screams something in JAPANESE~! and the fans just POP despite the fact they have no idea what he said :lmao. EVERYONE LOVE TAJIRI!!!

FUCK ME at that German. Eat you heart out, Angle! Hell, you too Benoit!

LOVE how these 2 are going ALL OUT yet still managing to sell the effects of what they are doing.

ALBERT~!

RED MIST TO ALBERT'S FACE~!

X-FACTOR~!

X-PAC WINS~!

:mark: This rules the world. Gets a rating of SID.

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


PERRY SATURN at WWF new York. Moppy has been kidnapped .

SETPHANIE FAP FAP FAP OH GOD A TIGHT PVC OUTFIT FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP. She motivates Rhyno.


*Chris Jericho Vs Rhyno*

:mark:

:mark: STEPHANIE AT RINGSIDE FOR THE MATCH FAP.

So Jericho has never beaten Rhyno, making Rhyno the PERFECT opponent for STEPHANIE to put against him.

:lmao at STEPHANIE sneaking up on Jericho on the apron to prevent him from diving off the ropes. He kicks her away, but Rhyno had enough time to recover, so when Jericho DOES make the dive...

GORE! GORE! GOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEE!!!! Rhyno catches Jericho coming off the top rope to the outside with a GORE!!!!! :mark: FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP :mark:.










Put this isn't falls count anywhere, so by the time Rhyno gets Jericho in the ring he is able to kick out at 2. Then gets SLAPPED TO HELL by STEPHANIE.

Rhyno knows the GORE fucked up Jericho's ribs, and seeing a guy with legs that THICK apply a body scissors prevents that typical rest hold from being boring because damn, that GOTTA hurt.

AEROPLANE SPIN~!

FLYING RHYNO~!

Good GOD at that Lionsault. It was... kinda botched but Rhyno was in a good position to still catch Rhyno and my god it actually looked AWESOME. Legitimately AWESOME.










Jericho is building momentum and nearly gets the win, but STEPHANIE distracts the referee, and Jericho KISSES HER. Lucky bastard!

LIONSAULT~! RYHNO KICKS OUT!!!

RHYNO IS THE CURE OF JERICHOHOLISM~!

What a Spinebusters by Rhyno! Walls of Jericho used on Jericho! Everything Rhyno does hurts those ribs of Jericho more and more!

A belly to belly from the MAN BEAST, and he's ready for another GORE! Jericho moves, locks in the Walls, and Rhyno is defeated.

Kinda wish Rhyno had won lol, but damn this match is tremendous!!!

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


Regal backstage with The Rock. Regal wants to see if Rock is well enough to wrestle tonight. Unfortunately he is. :lmao at Stasiak running at them in the middle of the whole thing, only to miss and smash into a metal shutter.


*Rob Van Dam Vs Jeff Hardy - WWF Hardcore Championship Ladder Match*

Urgh. I remember this being a pile of garbage.

For 2 guys who are as athletically gifted, they sure do fuck up a bunch of basic flips in the early going :lmao.

"FUCK HIM UP RVD. FUCK HIM UP. FUCK HIM UP!" :lmao fans are awesome.

What the feck was that? RVD is pissing about with a ladder, Hardy is behind him and instead of say, kicking him in the back of the head... Jeff decides to dive BACK FIRST onto the ladder to knock it back into RVD. HURTING HIMSELF. Why? Made Jeff look like a fucking retard. Then again I suppose that's his gimmick, right?

A couple of cool spots involving the ladder kinda make up for some of the utter DUMB SHIT in the early going lol. And everything comes from RVD. I wish this had just been a normal Hardcore title match like Invasion. That was awesome.

:mark: RVD launches himself off the ropes right into Jeff who is trying to climb the ladder. Looked more like a crazy collision rather than lightly tapping him with a kick or something like we tend to see in ladder matches that replicate that spot.

And then RVD does dumb shit. He puts the ladder ON TOP of Jeff then does a moonsault onto it. HURTING HIMSELF. Moron. PUT THE LADDER UNDER JEFF AND DO THE SAME MOVE. IT'LL HURT HIM AND NOT YOU.

:lmao Hardy tries to do the same as RVD did earlier by coming off the ropes and knocking Van Dam off the ladder. Was a shitty dropkick spot like I'm used to seeing... except it ended with RVD LANDING ON JEFF'S LEGS and fucking him up :lmao.

DAMN. Awesome DDT. RVD knows how to take a DDT.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I present to you exhibit a, which demonstrates perhaps the world's DUMBEST spot ever:










FACEPALM~!

RVD wins the title. Hate this. Even the couple of good spots can't help it. Just pure SHITE.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Shane O'Mac made Booker T some BOOK ENDS out of the announce table that Booker T BOOK ENDED Rock through on Smackdown.


*The Undertaker & Kane Vs DDP & Kanyon - WWF & WCW Tag Team Championship Cage Match*

:mark: YEAH I'M EXCITED ABOUT WATCHING THIS MATCH SO WHAT?

Gotta feel sorry for Teddy Long. He's stuck on the OUTSIDE for this tag match .

DDP and Kanyon try to escape the cage the second the bell rings. Nah. They gotta take a BEATING before they can leave this cage.

UNDERTAKER :mark:. He's getting his face CAVED IN by Page and you can hear him scream "COME ON!" to try and get Page to give him his absolute best. Then Undertaker absorbs the shots and goes to town on the man who stalked his wife.

LOW BLOW. And Page actually gains some offence in on the Dead Man! Then gets a boot to the face :lmao.

Kanyon does a good job both taking a beating from Kane and even getting some offence in on the Big Red Machine. He takes on hell of a bump from a powerbomb position into the corner of the cage.

Oh man, Undertaker nearly puts DDP THROUGH THE FUCKING CAGE with a couple of running splashes and then a big boot. Then he goes to the well once too often and KANYON comes off the ropes and shoulder tackles Undertaker right to hell! Kanyon continues to take on BOD ALONE and sends Kane head first to the mat with his knee right in the back of his head!

:mark: STEREO SIT UP~!

Undertaker then tells Kane to LET KANYON GO. So Kanyon escapes the cage... LEAVING DDP ALONE WITH UNDERTAKER AND KANE! AND A FUCKING CHAIN!!!

Now it's time for Page to pay!!! He gets absolutely annihilated by the Brothers of Destruction, as you might expect

:lmao at Undertaker playing mindgames with Page. Tells him he can escape the cage, on the condition that he doesn't come near Sara again. Page thinks he's caught a break, gets half way over the cage and then Undertaker drags him back in and kills him :lmao. 

:lmao at Kane looking all bad ass just sitting in the corner of the cage watching Page get killed.

So this is a squash match essentially. And it's fucking AWESOME. It was EXACTLY how this match needed to go down. DDP and Kanyon had fucked with Undertaker's family. His WIFE. And now they were stuck inside a STEEL CAGE with two SEVEN FOOT MONSTERS. Who the FUCK expected them to have a competitive match?

Loved every minute of this.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


:lmao Stasiak again tries to take Rock out only to fly into an object. He makes Rock segments interesting!


*Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - WWF Championship Match*

:mark: FAP FAP FAP :mark:

Talk about a big fight feel! Angle stood at the bottom of the ramp, Austin at the top, both men just staring at each other, then making a move, meeting in the middle to exchange blows!

Austin works over the leg and ankle of Angle early on, due to him trying to break it during the build up for this match. :mark: at Angle using his leg strength to counter it and go for an Ankle Lock, but as he turns out of the leg hold Austin has on you can hear him SCREAM IN PAIN as he does it. Just one of those little things that can really make a difference.

The multiple German Suplex spot is :mark: too. Austin makes Angle really work to hit them all. Angle goes for an Angle Slam and damn, Austin's survival instant or something kicks in and he does an awesome sequence of a thumb to the eye then a knee to the back of the ribs which sends Angle face first into the second turnbuckle lol.

STUNNER~! Kinda comes out of nowhere and pretty early on into the match, but adds a lot to the story of the match with Angle kicking out and Austin wondering what he has to do to win. He's fucked off that Angle kicked out and levels Angle with ANOTHER Stunner, but Angle falls to the outside. That shit ain't gonna do. How DARE Angle not only kick out of a Stunner, but take another and FALL OUT OF THE RING? That bastard should have taken the Stunner and stayed in the ring so Austin could PIN him. How does Austin react? With a number of BRUTAL ring post shots, sending Angle face first into the ring post again and again and again, busting the Olympic Hero wide open! Austin is a man possessed!

Angle is getting his arse absolutely kicked. Great selling of all the ring post shots followed by the right hands from Austin. He looks totally OUT OF IT. Austin finally throws him into the ring...1...2... KICK OUT! Angle is not giving up!

Austin is even more pissed now. Back to the outside and MORE ring post shots to Angle's head. He's bleeding, he's battered but by god he isn't BEATEN yet.

Oh man :mark:. Angle is bleeding like mad but still locks in the Ankle Lock while Austin is on the barricade. He looks like a fucking LUNATIC in the best way possible. Then he fucking DRAGS Austin into the ring by the Ankle to apply the hold there, and Austin is desperately trying to hold on to everything to prevent going inside the ring where he can LOSE the WWF title should he tap! :mark:

MOONSAULT~! ANGLE LANDED THE MOONSAULT! He's pulling out everything here to bring back the WWF title to its rightful company!

MILLION DOLLAR DREAM~! Angle isn't the only one pulling out everything in this match! He's already survived 2 Stunners and multiple head shots to the ring post, so Austin needs to dig deep into the well and drag out whatever he can. SURVIVOR SERIES 1996 FINISH TEASE~!

LOVE how Angle escapes the hold too. The arm drops twice, then the third time he manages to hand on and JUST gets enough energy back to make a beeline to the ropes and send Austin to the outside! None of this standing up and punching bullshit then making a comeback. He literally used EVERYTHING HE HAD to just get to the ropes and send Austin out.

STUNNER~! KICK OUT!!! Austin waits for him to stand up again, slaps him in the face and tries again, only for Angle to counter into an Angle Slam!!! :mark:

Angle is bleeding, he's kicked out of numerous Stunners and he's STILL coming back! Austin knows he CANNOT beat Angle now, so he decks Earl Hebner! Another referee comes out, and Austin hits a low blow on Angle then Stuns the new referee! He just wants, no, he NEEDS this match to be over dammit! Tim White shows up and ends up getting decked with the title belt. ANGLE SLAM! Austin is OUT! Nick Patrick runs down... and rings the bell! Austin has been DQ'd!

:mark: This match is just perfect. Even the DQ finish is incredible. Austin COULDN'T BEAT Angle clean, so he did whatever he could to simple end the match while still keeping his title. Both men were INCREDIBLE in this match. Everything about it is INCREDIBLE. I'm doing it.

*Rating: ******
*CAL SCALE - 9*


*Booker T Vs The Rock - WCW Championship Match*

Urgh. We got from an incredible Austin/Angle match for the WWF Title... to Booker T Vs The Rock. What a load of bull.

:lmao at the poor camera man getting wiped out when Rock decides "fuck Booker T I'm going after Shane".

Rock hits a BLATANT low blow on Booker T... and the WCW ref does nothing? Kinda odd given what just happened in the previous match.

So like the handicap match a month later, SHANE is the best part of this. And he ain't even IN THE MATCH. Distracting the referee, getting knocked on his arse by Rock and STILL counting along with the referee when Booker goes for a cover, then manipulating the referee to concentrate on a steel chair while he blasts Rock in the head with the WCW title. Oh, and then he takes one EPIC Clothesline from Hell after the APA come down to get some revenge for earlier!!! And if that wasn't enough he even takes a ROCK BOTTOM on the floor!

At some point Rock wins the title. Whatever. Match is a giant load of bugger all outside of SHANE.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 23*​


----------



## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Alim said:


> You know what I just noticed? Taker had faced (and defeated) every evolution member at wrestlemania
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


and kevin nash

and shawn michaels

the kliq does not fare well against the deadman


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Another day, another awesome PPV review from Cal. Can't wait to rewatch SS 01 outside of that main event. I always knew that Rock/Booker sucked, but I always wondered why nobody else saw the light. Worst Rock main event match during his full-time run, although you do have to admit that the man almost always delivered.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


>


This spot had me rolling when I saw it. Makes absolutely ZERO sense. :lmao

Great review CAL. Although I disagree with the low ratings for the ladder match and the main event. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed ROCK/BOOKAH when I watched the event a couple of months ago.

Austin/Angle is always :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

With SS getting such a huge score on the CAL SCALE, it's put 2001 PPV overall to 179. The same as 2000 PPV... except I still got ONE MORE PPV to watch! So yeah, 01 PPV > 00 PPV . Unless SVS some how ends up getting 0 or minus... which I think is impossible . Oh and SS getting 23 points puts it even with WM 17!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Can someone help me out with Del Rio's work in 2010? He seemed to have like 4 straight weeks of tag matches on Smackdown in December, and I'm not tryin to watch every single one of those if they're all the same. Has anyone seen any of them? Most of them are Edge/Mysterio vs. Del Rio & Miz or Del Rio & Kane.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SVS 01 is indeed kinda impossible to score less than at least 10. Dat ME + rock solid undercard. All Big 4 in 01 were big bad motherfuckers :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Callamus said:


> With SS getting such a huge score on the CAL SCALE, it's put 2001 PPV overall to 179. The same as 2000 PPV... except I still got ONE MORE PPV to watch! So yeah, 01 PPV > 00 PPV . Unless SVS some how ends up getting 0 or minus... which I think is impossible . Oh and SS getting 23 points puts it even with WM 17!


You seem shocked that SummerSlam 01 is so good 

That is one of the best WWF/WWE pay per view's you will ever witness :agree:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Interesting you have this that high, could I ask what you saw in it ? Haven't seen any of those Y2J matches
> 
> 
> 
> ...




To be honest, I don't really remember too much from that match, just saw it the one time when it aired live and that was the rating I remember giving it. I remember thinking it was Zigglers best match ever until he surpassed it at Payback with that awesome Del Rio match. I remember Ziggler getting a baby face reception from the Brooklyn crowd with Cena getting boo'd, and them absolutely tearing the house down together. I have it on DVD (my buddy was there live so we split the DVD to see if we could see him in the crowd, and also to own the Shield Debut + Ziggler match). 

I'll watch it now and write up a review, let's see if it holds up.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Dolph Ziggler vs John Cena TLC 2012 Ladder Match

Ok, so the story behind this one is that AJ is a giant slut bag and she can't decide who she wants to be with between Dolph and Cena. Also, there is really no explanation given as to why Cena deserves a shot at Zigglers MitB briefcase, unless the story is that he's John Cena and he always needs to be fighting for something.

Match starts, and the crowd is split probably 85-15 in favor of Ziggler, which is always great. Some rope running and Dolph stops and starts doing his best impression of the Naitch strut, which brings a smile to my face. Next is a cool spot, the crowd chanting loudly "you can't wrestle!" At Cena, and Cena answers with a straight minute or so of chain wrestling ending in a monkey flip. Always hated that chant, for the past 3-4 years Cena has been one of the best workers in the company. Dolph tries to set the ladder up but Cena tells him to fuck off via a nice stiff shot to the face with said ladder. Cena then throws Dolph across the Spanish announce table, always love it when Cena acts like a bad ass and shows off his strength. And GOOD LORD! Cena just gave Dolph a SOLID shot to the head with the steps, makes me queasy knowing Zigglers concussion issue in the future.

Cena sets a table up in the ring, but Ziggler cuts him off with a hot shot, hmmmm wonder if that will be used in the future. . Nice back and forth punches from both guys in the center of the ring, the crowd is just going crazy, but Ziggler catches Cena with a SLEEPER. Crowd now chanting "Ole, ole ole!" Bet a bunch of them where at the earlier ROH show where Generico tore the house down in his own Ladder match. Cena is now climbing the ladder with Ziggler firmly attached to his back locking in the sleeper. Cena isn't just an inflated juice head, dude is legit strong. Finally Cena passes out at the top of the ladder and falls off putting both himself AND Ziggler threw the table from earlier.

Ziggler is the first one up, he starts to climb, but Cena is up! And in one of the most AMAZING feats of strength I've ever seen, Cena picks the ladder up WHILE DOLPH IS CLIMBING, them PRESS SLAMS the ladder+ Dolph into the ropes :mark: :mark: Say what you want about Indy wrestling, but I seriously doubt you will ever see something like that at a ROH show.

Ziggler manages to fall before taking any damage and thwarts (that's a great word) Cena's attempt at his 5MD with that awesome Famasser type move he does. While Ziggler is outside the ring looking for god knows what, Cena gets up and locks in the STF. Normally I'd say this was a dumb move, as you can't tap in a Ladder match, but I'm gonna give Cena a pass because he might be trying to disable Dolph and keep him from climbing the ladder.

Ziggler gets away and hits the the ZIG ZAG :mark:

Ziggler sets another table up in the corner, Cena gets up, tries to go for the AA, but Ziggler counters with one of the sweetest looking DDT's I've seen his side of Jake Roberts. So many guys these days fuck that move up and make it look harmless and stupid. Not my boy Dolph though, he jumps about a foot in the air, grabs the head, then falls flat on his back spiking Cena's head. Props to Cena for taking it so well. Looks like a legit match ending move instead of a transition spot.

Ziggler goes outside, grabs the biggest fucking ladder he can find, and starts to climb. Cena meets him at the top and they just start throwing bombs. Cena head butts Dolph and causes him to fall. Looks like Cena is gonna win, and boy is the smarky Brooklyn crowd pissed. Well kinda, the fifteen or so 10 year old kids in the front row look pretty stoked. 

Alright here's my first legit gripe with the match. Cena is just laying against the ladder, all the way at the top, with Dolph laying on the ground below, and he doesn't go for the briefcase. Not once. Even though he just had enough energy to throw punches and head butt Dolph, he just can't muster enough energy to raise his arm 1 foot above his head and win the damn thing. So dumb.

Ziggler gets back up and climbs up Cena's side and takes him down with punches. Cena then hits the ugliest Hurricanrana I've ever seen on Ziggler and puts Dolph through the table he had set up in the corner earlier. Eh, this could have been done a lot better. They didn't build to this spot at all so it really felt pointless. Cena's Hurricanrana being as ugly as it was didn't help matters. Meh. Crowd still popped for it, but they should have teased it more and built it up, hitting it out of nowhere just kinda seemed confusing. 

Kinda marked there for a second, Dolph was standing in the corner, waiting for Cena to get up, and when he did, Dolph went for the Super kick, shades of Mr. HBK himself 

Now we get to the fuckery, Vickie comes out, tries to screw around, AJ comes out in a Cena tee, hits the 5 knuckle shuffle on Vickie, skips around in circles while Cena climbs, then pushes the ladder over with Cena at the top, allow Dolph to catch him with a Super Kick, allowing Dolph to climb and win.

Ok, so that was awesome, but not ****1/2 awesome like I had originally said. I think I was just so happy at the time seeing my man Ziggler in a main event finally I was gonna overrate anything he did. It was still an excellent match though, the hot crowd definitely added to it.


***3/4-****.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

There's a "Cena is the greatest wrestler of the last decade and no one can dispute it" thread in the General section. :kobe 

Has anyone seen the Goldberg DVD? Kind of curious.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

What are your guys' thoughts on SummerSlam 1998 and 1999? I ended up getting the anthology for 1998-2002 (DAT ANGLE VS. AUSTIN, TLC I, AND ENTIRE SUMMERSLAM 2002 SHOW), and I've only seen certain bits of 98 and 99. I know a lot of people hate on Austin vs. Taker for 98, but are they good shows?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> There's a "Cena is the greatest wrestler of the last decade and no one can dispute it" thread in the General section. :kobe
> 
> Has anyone seen the Goldberg DVD? Kind of curious.


LMAO at the Cena thread. I like Cena in the ring, even if his character sucks. But best of 2000-2010? No effinf way.

I'm curious about the Goldberg DVD too, the guy wasn't a great worker by any stretch of the imagination, but he was in some very entertaining matches, particularly against DDP, Sid, and Sting.

Edit-PGSucks, I own that set too, 98-99 are okay, nothing to write home about.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's the Attitude era at it's finest, sheer MAYHEM!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 98 blows. SS 99 has a good tag title match. Rest blows .


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys. I mainly got the set because I lost my damn SSlam 02 DVD (don't ask me how) and I don't own Austin vs. Angle, which is one of my 5 favorite matches ever.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The whole Attitude Era blows 

There's a few wrestling matches but other then that it was all brawls and pure chaos.

Crash was the best part of the Attitude Era IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah that SS Anthology is worth getting for SS 00 (not the greatest event or anything but some good stuff no doubt), 01 and 02 alone. Doesn't matter how bad 98 and 99 are .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I have the original copy of SummerSlam 2000, no edits for this guy


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Summerslam 1999 might be the best PPV of that year, which is a very depressing thought. I guess Backlash and No Mercy are decent competition, but I'm speaking as a huge fan of Austin/HHH NM 1999. SS 98 was a good but HEAVILY overrated event. Ask the miscreants that populate outside of these confines; many would put the event up there as a top three Summerslam.

Speaking of miscreants, Sandow/ADR was really good.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm back! watching the ladder match set I got in the mail and I have about an hour left on disc one. Review will be up and then I will finish KOTR 1996 and that should be posted by tonight or early tomorrow at the very least. 

Unfortunately, I was refunded for my purchase of the Eddie set on Amazon, so I don't have that....yet


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

William Murderface said:


> I have the original copy of SummerSlam 2000, no edits for this guy


Me too, 5 bucks at like Gamestop long time ago


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I love the lion's den matches on the late 90s SummerSlam cards. I think one of those shows has a pretty awesome D'Lo Brown match too. Might be with Jeff Jarrett or X-Pac, don't really remember.* Looking at my really old star ratings for 98 and 99 SummerSlams, it would seem like I liked both shows. 

*EDIT - checked, I think I meant D'Lo/Val Venis from 98.

Should really finish Mania 26 today. Watched a few matches DAYS ago and haven't written anything about them. Might as well do that now. Keeping you updated in my oh-so exciting process~!!



One day I am watching every WWF 99 PPV in full and making a list out of it. Eat shit. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You're watching WM 26 for your 2010 list? I'm gonna really dislike you aren't I?


YOU LOVE UNDERTAKER/HBK OR I'LL STAB YOU.

Survivor Series 01 has begun!


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't remember much of Survivor Series 01 other than the main event, which is :mark: x 100


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> You're watching WM 26 for your 2010 list?


Well it happened in 2010 FOOL.



Callamus said:


> I'm gonna really dislike you aren't I?


It's not like I don't like the match, but as of right now it's not going on the top 25. It obviously will be on the current list if I watch it today (hopefully I get around to it) because I only have like 7 matches and even I can (begrudgingly) admit it's better than the 6 minute matches on there, but when I'm finished watching every PPV and whatever I want to watch on TV....nah. It'll be on the list, though you'll only see it if you scroll down to the dreaded "OTHER CONTENDERS".

I could see it being between 20-25? Maybe? Maybe I'll even think it's legit great today and rank it near the top? (HE WON'T)



Callamus said:


> YOU LOVE UNDERTAKER/HBK OR I'LL STAB YOU.


Don't make me get a hoover out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YOU KEEP THOSE HOOVERS AWAY FROM ME!

Undertaker/HBK is #1 for 2010 and aint nothing close to it dammit!

Watching Regal/Tajiri SVS 01 :mark:. Second time this month lol.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

There's a new Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson pack in XWT :mark:

Match-list:



Spoiler: AWESOME PACK1



1. Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - SmackDown 6.9.13.avi 

2. Chris Jericho vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 11.2.13.avi 

3. Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Raw 29.7.13.avi 

4. Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Team Hell No - WWE Tag Team Champioanship - Extreme Rules 2013.avi 

5. Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 25.10.10.avi 

6. Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston - Tag Team Championship - WrestleMania 29.avi 

7. Team Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars - Tag Team Championship - Royal Rumble 2013.avi 

8. Chris Jericho vs Daniel Bryan - NXT 23.2.10.avi 

9. Daniel Bryan vs Kane - Summerslam 2012.avi 

10. The Shield vs Team Hell No & Randy Orton - SmackDown 14.6.13.avi 

11. Daniel Bryan vs Christian - SmackDown 12.7.13.avi 

12. Wade Barrett vs Daniel Bryan - Steel Cage - SmackDown 23.8.13.avi 

13. Daniel Bryan vs Ted Dibiase - United States Championship - Survivor Series 2010.avi 

14. Ryback vs Daniel Bryan - SmackDown 3.5.13.avi 

15. Daniel Bryan vs Seth Rollins - Raw 10.6.13.avi 

16. Dolph Ziggler vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.10.12.avi 

17. Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - Summerslam 2011.avi 

18. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - Champion vs Champion - Raw 30.1.12.avi 

19. Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - Street Fight - Raw 24.6.13.avi 

20. John Cena vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 8.6.12.avi 

21. Sheamus vs Daniel Bryan - Street Fight - Raw 30.7.12.avi 

22. Daniel Bryan & The Usos vs The Shield - SmackDown 20.9.13.avi 

23. Daniel Bryan vs Mark Henry vs Big Show - Steel Cage - World Heavyweight Championship - Royal Rumble 2012.avi 

24. Team Hell No vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns - WWE Tag Team Championship - Raw 27.5.13.avi 

25. Ryback vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 3.6.13.avi 

26. Daniel Bryan vs The Shield - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.8.13.avi 

27. Team Hell No & Randy Orton vs The Shield - Raw 3.6.13.avi 

28. 06.08.04 - Bryan Danielson vs. Jack Evans - ROH Time To Man Up.avi 

29. Daniel Bryan vs John Morrison vs The Miz - Submissions Count Anywhere - United States Championship - Hell In A Cell 2010.avi 

30. Team Hell No & John Cena vs The Shield - Raw 29.4.13.avi 

31. The Miz vs Daniel Bryan - United States Championship - Night of Champions 2010.avi 

32. Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler - SmackDown vs Raw - Champion vs Champion - Bragging Rights 2010.avi 

33. Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - No Disqualification - SmackDown 16.8.13.avi 

34. Daniel Bryan vs Dean Ambrose - Raw 9.9.13.avi 

35. Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars - Tag Team Championship - Main Event 14.11.12.avi 

36. 06.12.22 - Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide vs. Nigel McGuinness vs. Jimmy Rave - ROH International Challenge.avi 

37. Daniel Bryan vs Roman Reigns - Raw 16.9.13.avi 

38. Team Hell No & The Undertaker vs The Shield - Raw 22.4.13.avi 

39. Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars - Tag Team Championship - Main Event 19.12.12.avi 

40. 06.12.08 - Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe (Cage Match) - ROH The Chicago Spectacular Night 1.avi 

41. 06.07.15 - Bryan Danielson vs. Sonjay Dutt - ROH Death Before Dishonor 4.avi 

42. The Shield vs Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston - Raw 20.5.13.avi 

43. The Shield vs Team Hell No & Ryback - 6 Man Tag Team TLC Match - TLC 2012.avi 

44. Low Ki vs Christopher Daniels vs Bryan Danielson - The Era of Honor Begins.avi 

45. 06.06.23 - Bryan Danielson vs. Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer (Elimination) - ROH Throwdown.avi 

46. Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima (Fight Without Honor) - Final Battle 2008.avi 

47. Daniel Bryan vs Randy Orton - WWE Championship - Night Of Champions 2013.avi 

48. 06.10.28 - Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe (No-DQ No Time Limit) - ROH Irresistible Forces.avi 

49. Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson - Driven.avi 

50. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - 2 Out Of 3 Falls - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2012.avi 

51. Daniel Bryan vs Justin Gabriel vs Wade Barrett vs Heath Slater vs Sin Cara vs Sheamus vs Kane vs Cody Rhodes - Smackdown Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2011.avi 

52. CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan - WWE Championship - Over The Limit 2012.avi 

53. Bryan Danielson vs KENTA - Driven.avi 

54. 06.07.29 - Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - ROH Generation Now.avi 

55. 06.05.13 - Bryan Danielson vs. Delirious - ROH Ring Of Homicide.avi 

56. Nigel McGuiness vs Bryan Danielson (ROH World Championship) - Rising Above 2008.avi 

57. Daniel Bryan vs Jack Swagger,Antonio Cesaro,Ryback - Raw 22.7.13.avi 

58. CM Punk vs Bryan Danielson (Ricky Steamboat Ref) 2004.04.23 ROH Reborn Stage One.avi 

59. 06.04.01 - Bryan Danielson vs. Lance Storm - ROH Better Than Our Best.avi 

60. 05.10.14 - Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries - ROH Enter The Dragon.avi 

61. 06.01.27 - Bryan Danielson & Jay Lethal vs. Austin Aries & Roderick Strong - ROH Tag Wars 2006.avi 

62. 06.06.24 - Bryan Danielson vs. Colt Cabana - ROH Chi-Town Struggle.avi 

63. Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan - Vacant WWE Championship - Battleground 2013.avi 

64. 06.01.28 - Bryan Danielson vs. AJ Styles - ROH Dissension.avi 

65. 06.12.09 - Team Danielson vs. Team Delirious - ROH The Chicago Spectacular Night 2.avi 

66. Bryan Danielson vs KENTA (ROH World Championship) - Glory By Honor V Night 2.avi 

67. Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong (ROH World Championship) -This Means War.avi 

68. 05.09.17 - Bryan Danielson vs. James Gibson - ROH Glory By Honor IV.avi 
69. Low Ki vs The American Dragon - Round Robin Challenge.avi 

70. Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuiness (Pure Title and World Title Unification Match) - Unified.avi 

71. John Cena vs Daniel Bryan (With The Surprising Ending) - Triple H As Special Guest Referee - WWE Championship - Summerslam 2013.avi 

72. Daniel Bryan vs Big Show vs The Great Khali vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Santino Marella - Elimination Chamber Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber 2012.avi 

73. Bryan Danielson & Samoa Joe vs. KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji - Best In The World 2006.avi 

74. Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide - Final Battle 2006.avi 

75. 06.03.11 - Bryan Danielson vs. Alex Shelley w Prince Nana - ROH Arena Warfare.avi 

76. Bryan Danielson vs Davey Richards - The Final Countdown Tour Boston.avi 

77. Samoa Joe vs Bryan Danielson (ROH World Championship) - Midnight Express Reunion.avi 

78. Bryan Danielson vs Roderick Strong (ROH World Championship) - Vendetta.avi 

79. Bryan Danielson vs. Roderick Strong (ROH World Championship) - Supercard Of Honor.avi 

80. Bryan Danielson vs. Samoa Joe (ROH World Championship) - Fight Of The Century.avi 

81. 06.08.26 - Bryan Danielson vs. Colt Cabana - ROH Gut Check.avi 

82. 06.08.25 - Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuinness - ROH Epic Encounter II.avi 

83. Austin Aries vs Bryan Danielson (2 Out of 3 Falls) - Testing the Limit.avi 

84. Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus - Raw 8.7.13.avi 

85. 05.12.17 - Bryan Danielson vs. Naomichi Marufuji - ROH Final Battle 2005.avi


Man Bryan has been absolutely amazing in 2013.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

What do people think about the Attitude Era in this thread? I'm not talking about match wise, I'm talking about quality and entertainment wise (i.e. the characters, storylines and booking). I'm curious to know because I'm about to finish 1997 (going to watch the Christmas episode in a few minutes) and 1998 is truly the first full Attitude Era (generally believed so) year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Honestly I don't like the majority of the AE. Match quality aside, I find a LOT of the storylines and angles to be confusing and a giant mess with SWERVES~! thrown in every which way just to try and shock people. It WORKED as far as ratings go because yeah, people NEEDED to tune it to see what the fuck was gonna happen... but what happened usually was utterly retarded. As for characters, outside of a handful of main eventers and upper mid carders, most of the characters were fucking dumb. There is very little entertainment value on AE shows for me. I always enjoyed the last couple of months in 99-01 more than 98 and most of 99, and that was BEFORE I knew who was writing and when he/they left and shit lol. There really is a CLEAR point in time from Russo leaving and Chris Kreski taking over, just as there is a clear point when Chris Kreski is relieved of his position and Stephanie McMahon takes over in 2000 (again something I noticed BEFORE finding out Stephanie took over creative lol).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I recall really liking the Del Rio vs Christian steel cage match. Those two in general usually leaves me :mark:

Especially the SummerSlam match. Jesus FUCK. It gets better after every watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2000-2001 is the only good part of the AE for the most part. Its better than 1995-1996 though


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*WWE: The ladder Match review​*
*Disc one​*
*Match # 1: Shawn Michaels vs Bret Hart( 7/21/92)*

Ok, so the first match on this set was actually a stampede wrestling match between Jake Roberts and the JYD, but it joined in mid match so It was hard to give a rating, so I just decided to start writing here. This isn’t a well-known match at all as WWE forgets it to pimp the WM 10 match :lol. Anyways a pretty bad match per the usual from these two. I’m sure it was awesome at the time. Its already been said that these two have pretty terrible chemistry and this is another example here. It’s a damn shame that this is the first WWE ladder match and not WM X( which I have brought down to **** ¾ BTW). Ending got a lot better and brought up the rating a little, still kinda sucks. ** ½* 

*Match # 2: Razor Ramon vs Shawn Michaels( SS 1995)*

I love the original match to death and I’m glad this is on here as I have never seen this. But I’m already assuming its great . Isn’t the story here that they weren’t allowed to use the ladder as a weapon here? Because they don’t, and while the match is still awesome, it is weird seeing just a regular match as a ladder match. Really fun match, just wish it was more of a fight than a technical match. ****

*Match # 3: HHH vs the Rock( SS 98)*

The yellow ladders are out and they look as stupid as ever :lol. Anyway I’ve heard good things and bad things on this match so I really have no idea if I’m gonna like this. Probably not . Not as bad as some say but defiantly a tad overrated. I’ve seen people give it the full 5 and that’s just bullshit IMO. Its solid, but nothing special. Crowd was really hot but IMO the matches biggest fault is the length of this match. The last 5 minutes seemed to drag a bit and you could’ve cut that off and have a better match. Doesn’t deserve the ** ratings some give it or the 5 stars some give it, but still a fun match. ***

*Match # 4: Christian and Edge vs the Hardyz( no mercy 1999)*

The Hardyz were called the brood at this time which I didn’t even know, thought they were always called the hardyz. This was the first tag ladder match in WWE history which is cool because they would eventually go on to revolutionize ladder matches, too bad the crowd is completely fucking DEAD for this, it takes me out of the match even though I’m trying to love it because its decent. Fun match, but it gets shadowed over the TLC matches in the next couple of years. *** ½*

*Match # 5: The Dudleys vs the Hardyz, vs E&C( SS 2000)*

The first ever TLC match! I honestly have NEVER seen this match. The only match from this trilogy I have seen is the mania match. And apparently the other 2 are better :mark: :mark:. Anyways this was a beautiful match, as I expected. The first TLC match ever and it truly delivered. I’d love to see some original reactions to this match because although ECW did some crazy shit, I’m pretty sure they never had a TLC match. MOTY for 2000? I don’t think so as maybe HHH/Foley RR or HIAC gets that honor but its easily in the top 5 for me. **** ½*

*Match # 6: 3 count vs Jung Dragons vs Jamie Noble and Evan Karagias( Starrcade 2000)*

Was this the last Starrcade? It must be as WCW folded only a few months later. Never seen this but it sounds like it could be fun. This was a confusing plot. These TEAMS are all fighting against each other to face Chavo for the cruiserweight title. This was ok, but the whole time I’m thinking: BENOIT/JERICHO I UP NEXT!!!!! GET THIS OVER WITH!!! That made it hard to get into this match, add the fact that CHAVO is on Commentary and I now understand why WCW folded soon after: lol. I honestly think this is pretty meh, not the best not the worst. **

*Match # 7: Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho( RR 2001)*

:mark: :mark:. Easily the greatest ladder match of all time IMO. I love this match to death and if it wasn’t for Angle/Austin it would be the 2001 MOTY. I’ve written about this before but thank god they made a ladder set before he died so that this can be on here, as it would be completely inaccurate without this. So great, top 10 match of all time. *****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I love that Starrcade match lol. Waaaay better than Rock/HHH, and the NM tag ladder match too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Better than the No Mercy tag?

NO


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hated the Starrcade match TBH. It got the rating it deserved IMO.

Continuing KOTR 1996 now,The red sox game is on soon and wont end till like 12, so wont finish tonight as I have 2 hours left :lol.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't think much to the NM tag at all. Does nothing for me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do like that Starrcade match a lot too. I just couldn't skip on the daily segment of "disagreeing with Cal." It's gonna go over big in the UK market.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You read my SS ramblings? I'm sure you can disagree with SOMETHING there too :side:.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Disc 2 looks really solid. last two TLC matches, taker/Jeff, and RVD/Guerrero all sound awesome.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

To add to the AE dicussion, 

if we are speaking 98-01

TBH I didnt watch back then ( I had the WRESLTING IS BAD ! Parents) but as I watch some things back I just dont see what ppl cream about, it doesnt interest me most of the stuff, match wise its doesnt sound that good, and as I watch back I prefer the new generation and wcw nitro


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> You read my SS ramblings? I'm sure you can disagree with SOMETHING there too :side:.


Actually, not really.  I mean I don't nearly hate the ladder match like you _(I think it's a blast)_ but I knew you did so that rating was expected. I don't care much for Rock vs Booker so that's fine with me too. You actually thought higher of the opener than I figured - although I'm one of those who ranks it pretty well myself haha - & YES b/c you know how FUN that six man is.

so nothing but :mark: b/c you dug the show for the majority.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> To add to the AE dicussion,
> 
> if we are speaking 98-01
> 
> TBH I didnt watch back then ( I had the WRESLTING IS BAD ! Parents) but as I watch some things back I just dont see what ppl cream about, it doesnt interest me most of the stuff, match wise its doesnt sound that good, and as I watch back I prefer the new generation and wcw nitro


 Yeah I understand why people think that. Obviously it's better to watch old episodes and see for myself if I like them or not. And going back to what Cal said, there was a discussion a few weeks ago on when the Attitude Era ended and someone said 1999 (basically when Russo left) because the shows were different to 2000. Some 1999 wrestlers also changed or left. For example, Gangrel left, Ministry Undertaker (who was dropped for ABA Taker in 2000) and even Rock changed in 2000. I think the biggest difference is that 2000 started to focus on more wrestling than actual storylines or 'crash' tv. I don't agree or disagree with this but it's certainly a good point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I HAVE CODY'S APPROVAL :mark:.

SVS probably won't be done until maybe Monday. Got other shit I got to watch 2morrow (Raw, Impact and SD to write my weekly video script . I shouldn't leave this until the last minute :lmao ).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> To add to the AE dicussion,
> 
> if we are speaking 98-01
> 
> TBH I didnt watch back then ( I had the WRESLTING IS BAD ! Parents) but as I watch some things back I just dont see what ppl cream about, it doesnt interest me most of the stuff, match wise its doesnt sound that good, and as I watch back I prefer the new generation and wcw nitro


Skins I'm gonna be pissed if you didn't read that review of Dolph/Cena ladder match I did a few pages ago. I went and rewatched it to see if it held up to the high rating I gave it (it didn't, still great tho). It's on pg 934

For me, I absolutely loved the attitude era as a 12-14 year old testosterone filled teenager. It felt like every Tuesday I went to school, all we talked about was what Stone Cold did or man do you think Mankind is actually crazy or dude the Rock is a complete douche. Going back and watching it now as a 26 year old man? No, aside from the select obviously great matches on PPV, the majority of that stuff doesn't interest me at all. My favorite TV era is 2002-2005ish, but I'll go on record as saying the stuff WWE puts out now blows the AE out of the water wrestling quality wise. Sometimes it seemed like 75% of every AE match ended with multiple run ins and a giant cluster fuck of screwings. Much prefer how most matches have a clean finish these days, way more satisfying to watch.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Agree with the CJ. I think it depends on what appeals to the fans in general. If they're into in-ring wrestling then yeah, AE isn't for them (98-99 at least). The great thing about pro-wrestling is that there is a lot to talk about and enjoy.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching the newest Bret set and having some pork chops and beer. 

I totally forgot the Patriot came out to Angle's theme. Love it. 

Sunny in her prime. Yeah baby!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Watching the newest Bret set and having some pork chops
> 
> Sunny in her prime. Yeah baby!


If you look closely, three rows back on the hard camera side of the ring, TAWD the Bod is there with Shannon Da Cannon trying to get the popcorn guys autograph.

Are you talking about the Bret Dungeon collection? If so, definitely check out his 1985 match with Dynamite Kid. One of my favorites from that set and an absolute blast to watch. Too bad WWE was so size obsessed back then, I would have LOVED to see a series of matches between Bret and Dynamite in 1986.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Got About an hour left on KOTR 1996, hopefully the ME holds up( Bulldog/HBK) or this is gonna have a horrendous rating on the cal scale. 

No idea what KOTR I'm gonna do next. Thinking either 2000 or 2001


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Skins I'm gonna be pissed if you didn't read that review of Dolph/Cena ladder match I did a few pages ago. I went and rewatched it to see if it held up to the high rating I gave it (it didn't, still great tho). It's on pg 934
> 
> For me, I absolutely loved the attitude era as a 12-14 year old testosterone filled teenager. It felt like every Tuesday I went to school, all we talked about was what Stone Cold did or man do you think Mankind is actually crazy or dude the Rock is a complete douche. Going back and watching it now as a 26 year old man? No, aside from the select obviously great matches on PPV, the majority of that stuff doesn't interest me at all. My favorite TV era is 2002-2005ish, but I'll go on record as saying the stuff WWE puts out now blows the AE out of the water wrestling quality wise. Sometimes it seemed like 75% of every AE match ended with multiple run ins and a giant cluster fuck of screwings. Much prefer how most matches have a clean finish these days, way more satisfying to watch.


Sorry bud, I just got back online

I just read it, pretty good, idk I just dont like that match that much, it too contrived, but its Ziggler first main event so I can understand the importance, I use to liek their raw match on the first raw of 2013 but it didnt hold up well, there matches this year were so one sided. I loved the flair strut like you said, and the crowd was all for Ziggler

Have you seen the 2010 raw and sd matches ?


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I already wanna watch SummerSlam 2013 again  not even kidding.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> I already wanna watch SummerSlam 2013 again  not even kidding.


rton2 @ your sig, I think we honestly have the same taste in dames, although I will miss the shelly sig 

I about to watch christian/ADR :mark: again


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> rton2 @ your sig, I think we honestly have the same taste in dames, although I will miss the shelly sig
> 
> I about to watch christian/ADR :mark: again


The only one that shocks me is Shelly not everyone likes her like I do.

God ADR/Christian is so phenomenal :homer :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> The only one that shocks me is Shelly not everyone likes her like I do.
> 
> God ADR/Christian is so phenomenal :homer :mark:


Yep Shelly is pretty hot to me, Plaza is just :yum: My eyes just light up every time I watch parks

Yea ADR/Christian is great I'll say it "stole the show" from a standpoint nobody expected it to be THAT good, and everyone was jizzing about the other two matches


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Yep Shelly is pretty hot to me, Plaza is just :yum: My eyes just light up every time I watch parks
> 
> Yea ADR/Christian is great I'll say it "stole the show" from a standpoint nobody expected it to be THAT good, and everyone was jizzing about the other two matches


Makes me very glad I didn't watch that pointless match they had on SmackDown! prior to the SummerSlam match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*King of the Ring 1996 review​*
*Starting my KOTR project with the birth of a legend!*​
*Match # 1: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Marc Mero (KOTR semifinals match)*

SO weird hearing no glass shatter, but some crappy generic music! I have NO IDEA who Marc Mero is BTW- I’ll probably be banned for saying that because with my luck he’s probably some type of “legend” . Owen Hart on commentary is going to be funny because he is a sick heel. This seems like a good way to start the night as this match is surprisingly fun. This Mero guy is actually good in the ring. This starts out slow but watching stone cold heel it up is classic :lol. Really solid match that was actually given a good amount of time, and my only complaint is that the stunner Austin gave was SHITTY and Mero did not know how to sell it. Cool opener though. *** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 3* 

*Match # 2: Vader vs Jake Roberts (KOTR semifinals match)
*
Apparently Roberts is the odds on favorite in this match. Umm last I checked Vader is always the favorite :lol. Anyways this was a shitty match. I’m pretty sure that Roberts was just too damn old and beat down to work a good match at this point. I liked Cornette and Vader was fun at some points. But it felt a lot like a modern day Khali match TBH, except both of these guys are LOADS better than Khali. Ending was also dumb, why have Roberts win my DQ and not go over with a pin? It makes his chance of winning the ME less likely, which is why I don’t have high hopes for the ME of Austin and Roberts. However, the beat down of Roberts was fun . ¼*

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 3: The Godwin’s vs the smoking guns( Tag team titles match)*

These two teams are what make me slightly embarrassed to be a wrestling fan. These two teams look like they come straight out of a stereotypic wrestling fans brain. As they both have basically ******* gimmicks. BUT SUNNY :mark:. Sunny is easily the most over at of all these guys, and I’m pretty sure she is a heel :lol. Honestly this match sucked like the Godwin’s always did. The smoking guns weren’t AS bad, but pretty close. Worst part of the match is when McMahon introduces some guy dressed as a lady in the back called cloudy. Who proceeds to hit on JR, awkward as shit and not funny in the slightest. A cloudy chant proceeds to start in the audience which is hilarious: lol. Shitty match, not as bad as the last match, but it was close. ½* 

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 4: Jerry Lawler vs the Ultimate Warrior*

Oh no, its 1996, Jerry Lawler needs to be at the commentary booth and not in the ring. And it’s not like the Warrior can carry guys easily . Lawler does some hilarious heel stuff by ribbing the Brewers and going up to people in the crowd and insulting them :lol. , SO GREAT. Holy shit is Warrior over, too bad hes pretty old too. Yeah this sucks really bad, like worse than the Godwins match and the Vader match. Its kept short, but not short enough. DUD

*Cal Scale: 0*

*Match # 5: The Undertaker vs Mankind*

Oh thank god after three shitty matches we get something that has the possibility of being at the very least decent. This was a lot of fun TBH. Obviously not as great as there HIAC match but its still damn entertaining. Mick Foley is so good and even early in his WWF career he was putting on awesome matches. This is such a breath of fresh air and it made the PPV A TON more bearable. MOTN so far, though Bulldog/Michaels may have it beat if it holds up. *** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 3*

*Match # 6: Goldust vs Ahmed Johnson( IC title match)*

I have heard that this match sucks, which is too bad because goldie is awesome . Anyways this is for the IC title but it seems more like a filler to me in between the Taker/Mankind and KOTR finals match. This was way too long, Ahmed is absolutely MASSIVE and I have a hard time believing that Goldust could honestly defeat someone the size of him. But instead a crappy slow 10-15 minute match ensues and even though I like Goldust, he sucks here. ¼*

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 7: Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Jake Roberts( KOTR finals)*

Here we go, not expecting much from this match but SCSA has already been in a good match so far. Wow what a short match, has to be under 10 minutes, the KOTR finals really should have been Vader vs SCSA, with Steve still winning. But then again Austin 3:16 would never have happened so I guess it’s cool. Not a bad match but not a good match for sure, Just a meh match. So an uneventful climax, except for Austin’s promo afterward of course, So nothing special. * 

*CAL SCALE: 0 *

*Match # 8: The British Bulldog vs Shawn Michaels( WWF title match)*

I remember this match being decent at the very least. Perfect is the referee on the outside which is not as fun as him being the actual referee but whatever. This match also suffers from being a little too long, I’m pretty sure it went over 30 minutes, while the KOTR finals went under 10 minutes. This might be a problem. Anyways my rating stayed exactly the same as this is a fun match that was a passable ME. Nothing you should go out of your way to see, but its easily MOTN. *** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 4*

*TOTAL CAL SCALE: 10 *

So an OK PPV here, Austin/Mero, Mankind/taker, and Bulldog/HBK are all decent-good but beside Austins legendary promo, there really is nothing I'd call must see on this show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Sorry bud, I just got back online
> 
> I just read it, pretty good, idk I just dont like that match that much, it too contrived, but its Ziggler first main event so I can understand the importance, I use to liek their raw match on the first raw of 2013 but it didnt hold up well, there matches this year were so one sided. I loved the flair strut like you said, and the crowd was all for Ziggler
> 
> Have you seen the 2010 raw and sd matches ?


Nope, I haven't seen Cena/Ziggler from 2010, you wouldn't happen to know the dates, would you?

I guess I can understand you thinking it felt contrived, I get that feeling sometimes too in matches that are more about story than technical wrestling. What stood out to me is how REAL the emotion was in that match, me and everyone in that crowd wanted Ziggler to pull it off so badly, every time Dolph would make a come back it would just pump me up more and more. I'm in the camp of people that think Dolph could be really special if given the time to work on his mic skills and given a real feud to sink his teeth into. He's number 2 behind only Cesaro as the guy I think is being most underutilized by the WWE right now. I also really liked the structure of that match, how it was more a wrestling match based around a ladder than just an all out crazy spot fest. My favorite ladder matches are always like that (Eddie/RVD, Sheamus/JoMo, HBK/Razor SS). So I think ***3/4 is fair for what they accomplished.

Edit- Smitty you underrated Mankind/Taker and HBK/Bulldog IMHO. Good review though man props, I think both of those matches got **** from me on last watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone should be required to watch Undertaker/Mankind from KOTR 96 for the ending alone. It still shocks me more than any other ending to a match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hmm, pretty solid on *** 3/4 for Bulldog/HBK. Mankind/Taker I think your right I underrated. 

Watching KOTR 2001 to continue this project. Heard this show sucks besides Shane/Angle


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Everyone should be required to watch Undertaker/Mankind from KOTR 96 for the ending alone. It still shocks me more than any other ending to a match.


Quoted for the mother fucking truth. Mankind taking Taker out CLEAN pretty much made Foley, and put the mandible claw over as a legit finisher. Love that match.

On another note, people are stupid, don't ever, ever, forget that. I'm watching Regal/Finlay at GAB 2005 put on an absolute CLINIC of bad ass mat wrestling mixed with brawling, and these dumbass fans are chanting "Boring, Boring". Wow. I'm seriously tempted to throw **** at it, the only downside being the Hornswoggle shens, and these assholes want to see Bobby Lashley. The fuck man. Wrestling fans can be some of the dumbest out of any sport/form of entertainment. That's like going to see "No Country for Old Men" and chanting "boring, boring" because there aren't any explosions or car chases. These guys are beating the piss out of each other for the fans and all they get back is a "boring" chant? Ugh.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Watched the Raw 8 days after SVS 96. Owen and Bret have a decent match that ends in DQ due to Austin and Rock makes his singles debut. Nothing else that interested me. Didn't recall Sunny looking _this_ good when seeing old footage/pics of her before.

Gonna watch Benoit/HHH Ironman in great quality for the first time now.



Cactus Jack said:


> That's like going to see "No Country for Old Men" and chanting "boring, boring" because there aren't any explosions or car chases.


You make me wanna go to a cinema just so I can do this. (not for "No Country for Old Men" but whatever is shown) :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Watched the Raw 8 days after SVS 96. Owen and Bret have a decent match that ends in DQ due to Austin and Rock makes his singles debut. Nothing else that interested me. Didn't recall Sunny looking _this_ good when seeing old footage/pics of her before.
> 
> Gonna watch Benoit/HHH Ironman in great quality for the first time now.
> 
> ...




Back when I was in college I was trying to get with this cute blonde chick who lived in my dorm, and she wanted to go see "Open Water" so I agreed to take her. I knew it would be bad so I brought in a bottle of Gatorade mixed with everclear (gotta love being in college when Gatorade + everclear sounds like a good drink) and drank it during the movie. That movie sucked so bad, about 45 min I just started yelling shit at the movie and telling everyone that would listen how my nut sack was more interesting than this garbage. Eventually I got us kicked out. Obviously, she was none too pleased and no after movie shenanigans at Chris's dorm would happen.


I'm in a blood and guts mood, JBL vs Cena I Quit up next.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ awkward moment when I do sheginians like that completely sober 

Didn't get to see ADR/Christian  will do tomorrow


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> What are your guys' thoughts on SummerSlam 1998 and 1999? I ended up getting the anthology for 1998-2002 (DAT ANGLE VS. AUSTIN, TLC I, AND ENTIRE SUMMERSLAM 2002 SHOW), and I've only seen certain bits of 98 and 99. I know a lot of people hate on Austin vs. Taker for 98, but are they good shows?


Summerslam '98 was one my favorite PPVs when I was a kid. D-Lo/Val is a pretty good opener, I recall Jarrett/X Pac being solid, I always had fun with Mankind's handicap match against the Outlaws because he got destroyed, and I'm pretty sure I'd still enjoy HHH/Rock quite a bit if I watched it today. Austin/Taker was one I just never watched when I was younger, actually all I remember is the legdrop through the table. So yeah. OH and there's a Lion's Den match too. Ok screw it, I like this ppv.

Summerslam '99 has an AWESOME Test/Shane O'Mac match that people completely forget about. Real gem. I think the main event's good too? I don't remember.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My friends and I saw The Tooth Fairy (I like the Rock...don't judge me) and all I did the whole time was yell shit, mainly because the theater was mostly empty. I didn't pay to get in though  :rock

Oh yeah, we're supposed to be talking about WRASSLING! Uh...I'll probably end up popping in one of my DVDs while I work on an essay


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Vengeance 2003


_United States Championship Match_
*Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit*

Well it shouldn't be surprising that this was fantastic. They know how to build to a conclusion so well. They had some great back and forth action and they really knew how to throw in the big spots to keep things interesting. They just do things in the ring that nobody else can do. Honestly I'm having a hard time explaining why this was so great. I'll just say that I didn't know who was going to win and I was kept on the edge of my seat for the last half of the match. 
******


_Indecent Proposal Match_
*Billy Gunn w/Torrie Wilson vs. Jamie Noble w/Nidia*

This was fun enough. Billy Gunn throwing around Noble was awesome. Bily Gunn sold his leg well too for the time that the match lasted. The match also had a top rope DDT which was pretty awesome. Also Torrie and Nidia both being against Noble was pretty funny. In summary some cool moves, it made me laugh, and Torrie Wilson's reaction after was hilarious. No complaints.
****


_The APA Bar Room Invatational_
*Featuring:
The Bashams, The FBI, A Young John Morrison, Brian Kendrick, Some Guys with masks on, some random guy with blond hair, Funaki, The Easter Bunny, Matt Hardy, Chuck Palumbo SHannon Moore, Orlando Jordan, Brother Love, Doink The Clown, Chris Kanyon, Sean O'Haire, The Brooklyn Brawler, and The APA*

I think just looking at the names is enough to imply that this was awesome. It's basically just all of these guys drinking and beating the shit out of each other in a bar that WWE set up near the stage. Whoever came up with this idea is a genius. It didn't take too long and was insanely entertaining. THis is also one of the more absurd combinations of wrestlers ever to be in a match.
*TOO AWESOME FOR STARS *



_WWE Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Rey MYsterio and Billy Kidman vs. The World's Greatest Tag Team(c)*

I feel like I must be missing something here. How is it that I haven't heard how aamazing this match is? There were a ton of spots which was cool but that's not what made this so great. Aside from the great spots this was a perfectly structured match. Haas and Benjamin's control segments were amazing because they did exciting things during the segments. They threw Kidman and Mysterio around the ring and never let the match slow down. The hot tags were hot, when WGTT wasn't on control the match was really exciting, the false finishes fooled the fans, and the crowd loved this match. Other than an awkward moment where Kidman distracted the ref when Rey would have won I have no complaints. It lasted the perfect amount of time and was a blast to watch. Maybe I will overrate it but I really do feel like this match deserves a lot more recognition. 
******


_No Count Outs:_
*Stephanie McMahon vs. Sable
*
It's really impressive what a feud can do for match quality. Neither person in the matc is particualrly good in the ring but the match was really good because they had a feud and they had characters to play. Stephanie showed more emotion here than we see from 95% of the divas that have wrestled in the last 10 years. It was a pretty short wild fight and it really felt like Stephanie hated Sable. I was really impressed with the effort from both of them. It sort of reminded me of the Stephanie/Trish match from No Way Out 2001.
***1/2 *


*John Cena vs. The Undertaker 
*
It's matches like these that really show why the Undertaker is so great. Yeah latley we're used to his epics at Wrestlemania but in this one he was just a badass trying to teach a cocky, young Cena a lesson. It's just that this is a very different character than the character that comes to mind when the Undertaker is mentioned. Cena played a cocky heel well and he took the ass kicking from the Undertaker really well too. Aside from the good character work the match itself was awesome. 

There was nothing flashy about this, just a hard fought brawl. Undertaker was in control for a while before he made the mistake of lifting Cena's shoulders off the mat. Cena was able to work the ribs of the Undertaker and that was the main source of his offense. Undertaker sold it well and really looked like someone that was hurt. This was smartly worked and had a fantastic ending. 
****3/4 *


*Vince McMahon vs. Zach Gowan*

It's not too often you get to see Vince play the role of a dominant heel in the ring. He was pretty good at it and he was in there with a guy that was perfect for him. Gowan obviously is the perfect underdog as when you look at him you really have no idea how he could possibly win. The crowd loved Gowan's offense and Vince's was just the meanest offense ever (he went after GOwan's leg). SO this was a lot of fun but probably needed to be a few minutes shorter. The ending was also really stupid. Vince suffers a nasty cut that he got the hard way from a chair. I have no idea what he was thinking with the way he set up the chair that was going to get hit into his head. So that was a pretty cool spot. If they had cut 5 minutes off this it would have been so much better. As it is the match was still pretty cool.
****



_WWE Championship Match:_
*Brock Lesnar(c) vs. Kurt Angle vs. The Big Show*

I liked it but I didn't love it. It's structured just like most triple threats are structured 1 guy constantly rotating to the floor while the other two a in the ring. So that aspect annoyed me but once I got over that this was still a fun match. It's just 3 badasses slugging it out for the title and that is certainly something that's entertaining to see. That's really all there is to say about what makes this good really. It was fun and the winner was the last man standing. I can't complain. It was around 15 minutes and lacked a dull moment. 
****1/4*​
I loved the show. 3 matches were incredible and the main event was almost on that level. The other stuff on the card was also pretty enjoyable as well. Really impressive show. Can't believe it took me so long to get and watch this DVD.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Awesome review TaylorFitz. That PPV still holds up well for me. I could never get tired of watching Eddie/Benoit, the APA Bar Room Invitational, TWGTT/Rey & Kidman, Taker/Cena, and Brock/Angle/Show. 

You should check out the Ultimo Dragon vs Chris Kanyon match on the Vengeance pre-show if you haven't watched it. A simple yet solid match from both.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I bought Vengeance '03 a couple years back for like $3. Didn't seem that amazing to me on paper for some reason but it's become one of my favorite PPVs. One of the best cards they've put out, top to bottom. Even the filler was still enjoyable and had actual storylines behind it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

SLIM SHADY LP™ said:


> Awesome review TaylorFitz. That PPV still holds up well for me. I could never get tired of watching Eddie/Benoit, the APA Bar Room Invitational, TWGTT/Rey & Kidman, Taker/Cena, and Brock/Angle/Show.
> 
> You should check out the Ultimo Dragon vs Chris Kanyon match on the Vengeance pre-show if you haven't watched it. A simple yet solid match from both.


It wasn't included as a DVD extra. In fact nothing was. Not sure why. I usually love getting an extra match on the DVD so I was a little annoyed I didn't get the Heat match.



Brye said:


> I bought Vengeance '03 a couple years back for like $3. Didn't seem that amazing to me on paper for some reason but it's become one of my favorite PPVs. One of the best cards they've put out, top to bottom. Even the filler was still enjoyable and had actual storylines behind it.


Same with me. I'm sure I've seen it at stores and online for years without actually buying it. I'm also like 1 DVD away now from having all the 2003 DVD and being able to complete the picture that has been half formed on my shelf for like 8 years now. I wish I didn't have some of these on VHS already as I hate buying the same thing in a different format.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If you liked WGTT/Rey & Kidman a lot then you should DEFINITELY check out their rematch the next month on Smackdown. 8/14/03. One of my personal favorite tag matches.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Whatever happened to Billy Kidman? Sure, he completely lacked any personality and his theme sucked, but I really liked some of his matches 

Plus, the guy banged Torrie Wilson in her prime like 1,000 times, so he wins at life.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Mankind from KOTR might be my favorite match from them. Like all of them, it's absolutely magical. But kind of a higher scale that night.

Don't think Michaels vs Smith is too special from that show. Goes much too long and it doesn't benefit either man. One of those matches that shows me Smith wasn't much of an elite worker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Billy Kidman is freaking awesome. Yeah, he can't speak, but he was always giving us awesome matches and he is a very underrated storyteller. His Flock period was filled with little subtleties in matches that showed off how well he can play a heel. DAT HEROIN GIMMICK. Shame that he got fat and ugly.


Davey really wasn't elite, and he did benefit from having great chemistry with good workers in the 90s. I still like his British Bulldogs tag matches, but I also hate Dynamite Kid as a solo member. Curse that man!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flock needed a guy addicted to heroin to make their faction the dirtiest in wrestling history.

I won't deny that. Such as Owen and with Bret the second time around. I like Smith, but I've never loved him. Bless him for giving the world his son though. Now that's a Smith I love to watch work.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Dug out the rise and fall of WCW DVD for the first time in ages.

Ric Flair v Magnum TA

What a fun match this was, so much action packed into 10 minutes, I wonder how much of a star Magnum could of been if not for his injury.

***1/2


Sting/Windham/Luger v Flair/Arn/Tully

Again this is pretty short(around 12 minutes) but its done at such a pace with some impressive work from all involved and what a hot crowd, matches don't get much more fun then this.

****


Barry Windam v Dusty Rhodes

Windham bumps his ass off in this, nice little story around the claw, very solid match 

***1/2


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 for Cody&goldust vs the Wyatts from SD, very good match


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yep, match was pretty good; even with the slightly awkward finish. The dynamic between Goldust and the weird, cult-like wackiness of Harper meshed well and offered some light-hearted comedy to start the match off before Goldust just put things into high-gear and RULED. You wanna know something spectacular? He's a guy that's hardly had a match in a couple years yet he returns to the WWE as one of the best they have. He milks his segments to perfection and nothing comes across as wasted movement. 

I sincerely hope we can get a rampaging Cesaro Vs Goldust before Cesaro goes face (if those rumours are true). Either way, though, Goldust looks to be back permanently and ready to make us all reconsider our workers of 2013 lists.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I looooove the HBK/Smith KOTR '96 match, spoke about it numerous times on here, its at least **** and I may have even rated it **** 1/4 on my last watch, some awesome stuff in there IMO, just loved Davey's power moves.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Was ADR/Sandow any close to very good? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, but it was still worth a watch. Ending stretch was the only area which popped, but there is potential.

Rhodes Dynasty vs Wyatt Family on the other hand...OH MY, YES.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Fuck me, it's 4:30 AM here and I just woke up. I'm definitely gonna watch one of my DVDs now. I'm gonna pop in one of my WrestleManias.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm thinking of pulling an all nighter b/c at this rate I'll get no sleep thanks to football coming in about 5 1/2 hours. Might go watch both Rhodes Dynasty tags as part of this venture, tbhayley.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Nah, but it was still worth a watch. Ending stretch was the only area which popped, but there is potential.
> 
> Rhodes Dynasty vs Wyatt Family on the other hand...OH MY, YES.


Super Rhodes Bros/Harper & Rowan? Seems chilly... some more details on it please


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm thinking of just pulling an all-nighter and then sleeping early on sunday night as well, since I have a big essay due Tuesday that I haven't started because I've watched wrestling and played GTA all weekend.

Decided on WM X-7


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I went to bed around 5am this morning. Got up at 11am. Most sleep I've had in a while. Around **1/4 sleep.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Super Rhodes Bros/Harper & Rowan? Seems chilly... some more details on it please


Rah did such a wonderful job, that I'll let his words speak for me:



Rah said:


> Yep, match was pretty good; even with the slightly awkward finish. The dynamic between Goldust and the weird, cult-like wackiness of Harper meshed well and offered some light-hearted comedy to start the match off before Goldust just put things into high-gear and RULED. You wanna know something spectacular? He's a guy that's hardly had a match in a couple years yet he returns to the WWE as one of the best they have. He milks his segments to perfection and nothing comes across as wasted movement.


I wouldn't dub the finish "awkward". More along the lines of surprisingly abrupt. But, if not expected.



PGSucks said:


> I'm thinking of just pulling an all-nighter and then sleeping early on sunday night as well, since I have a big essay due Tuesday that I haven't started because I've watched wrestling and played GTA all weekend.
> 
> Decided on WM X-7


I think I can hang. Usually get no sleep as it is, so it's nothing new. 

2001 gravy train continues. Fun times.



Callamus said:


> I went to bed around 5am this morning. Got up at 11am. Most sleep I've had in a while. Around **1/4 sleep.


My sleep schedule is having an ROH like year. Seems impossible to have a ***+ trial come down the pike.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My sleeping schedule was TNA iMPACT like during summer (5 or 6 AM-2 or 3 PM every day), and has been okay since college started, but it looks like it's back to being pretty bad.

And I just now pressed play on the X-7 DVD. I was wondering why there was generic background music playing for like 15 minutes. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets hope that it is the legit copy too and not filled with edits. b/c I got the Anthology one. Which edits Undertaker's entrance & exit. I want to hurt Vince for that.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I have the Anthology one too. Didn't know about the edits because I got this when I was pretty young. 

Ugh. My Way being edited out of the intro. :HHH


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It doesn't make the atmosphere how it should be. Sad face.

I'm only lucky I can watch my brother's copy these days and that's the original version. Haven't touched the Anthology one in over a year. It's nice.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LOL Anthology WM's. Gots em all original from 15 onwards, with the earlier ones unedited TAGGED CLASSICS and for some reason WM 3 Championship Edition or something .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> THE DEL RIO PROJECT.
> 
> I approve immensely with this.





PGSucks said:


> My sleeping schedule was TNA iMPACT like during summer (5 or 6 AM-2 or 3 PM every day), and has been okay since college started, but it looks like it's back to being pretty bad.
> 
> And I just now pressed play on the X-7 DVD. I was wondering why there was generic background music playing for like 15 minutes. :side:


One reason why im glad about the Tagged Classic range, esp during the AE phase. I was lucky enough to pick up original WWF DVD versions of WM17 and 18 not that long ago too...

Mind you, I did buy the Summerslam Anthology Vol 1 & 2, Survivor Series Vol 1 & 2 and Royal Rumble Vol 1.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tagged classics is probably the main reason why I am jealous I don't live in the UK. That or free PPVs. I heard that was a thing.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Damn Sky Sports and their free PPVs. WWE expects us yanks to actually fork over $60 for shit like OTL 11, Capitol Punishment (the only one), and other shit shows :side:

Paused WM for a bit to make Hot Pockets :mark: I generally don't eat unhealthy, processed, or refined foods, but it's almost 6 AM. Do you smell what PGSucks is microwaving? :rock


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Hell in a Cell for some reason isn't free this year. I remember it being free last year (not sure if it was free previous years). The last free PPV we had was Money in the Bank. I expect TLC to be free here because I don't expect Survivor Series to be free.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oliver-94 said:


> Hell in a Cell for some reason isn't free this year. I remember it being free last year (not sure if it was free previous years). The last free PPV we had was Money in the Bank. I expect TLC to be free here because I don't expect Survivor Series to be free.


Yeah, HIAC is on Box Office this year, probably coz we had Battleground for 'free', SS is on Box Office too, TLC hasn't been listed yet but I wouldn't be surprised if that was on Box Office too.

I think the term 'free' is rather loose tbh, as we still pay for the Sky Sports subscriptions every month anyway.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Yeah, HIAC is on Box Office this year, probably coz we had Battleground for 'free', SS is on Box Office too, TLC hasn't been listed yet but I wouldn't be surprised if that was on Box Office too.
> 
> I think the term 'free' is rather loose tbh, as we still pay for the Sky Sports subscriptions every month anyway.


 Battleground was on Sky Sports? I thought it wasn't. Then again, I wasn't really interested in that PPV to know but I'm pretty sure I saw adverts showing the Sky Box office logo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah mate, it was on Sky Sports 3


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ADR/Sandow gets a solid *** imo. Damn hot final sequence. They kinda didn't click at first though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Exactly. It took a bit before they found their niche. More to build on if they have to work vs each other another time. Not to mention it will help once the dynamics are mapped out of who's the face & who's the heel.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Did Kurt Angle hit puberty at some point in 2001? His voice sounds so much different in earlier promos. I didn't think your voice could change from age 32 to 34 

Even though I've seen this Angle vs. Benoit match a ton of times, I'll still enjoy it because :usangle :kurt :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle's promo on why Texas is Texas = (Y)

Astounding how that man gives me so much entertainment when he doesn't wrestle.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Exactly. It took a bit before they found their niche. More to build on if they have to work vs each other another time. Not to mention it will help once the dynamics are mapped out of who's the face & who's the heel.


Kinda gave me dejá vu of Ziggler/Sandow not clicking much at Battleground, then having an infinitely superior match on the night after. The heel/face point is a good one too but in many ways, Sandow already is the face by default.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Kinda gave me dejá vu of Ziggler/Sandow not clicking much at Battleground, then having an infinitely superior match on the night after. The heel/face point is a good one too but in many ways, Sandow already is the face by default.


Default yes, but tell that to every fan in attendance. Doesn't always click with everyone who would assume or know Del Rio is the larger heel in the swing of it. Sandow was just insulting fans in the audience back on RAW the night before, after all.

Agreed tenfold on the RAW match vs Dolph being much better than the Battleground one. Portion of that for me is b/c once Sandow works aggressive and not finesse, he's much better. Ditch the headlocks and trying to dictate with intellect. Beat the tar out of your opponent and it becomes fun. Why the Sheamus matches were mostly a success.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Primer said:


> Agreed tenfold on the RAW match vs Dolph being much better than the Battleground one. Portion of that for me is b/c once Sandow works aggressive and not finesse, he's much better. Ditch the headlocks and trying to dictate with intellect. Beat the tar out of your opponent and it becomes fun. Why the Sheamus matches were mostly a success.


I agree with this. One of the things I love about Sandow is the little things he adds from his character into his matches, but I love it even more when he gets aggressive looking and starts just going nuts on his opponent. 

Didn't see the Battleground match between Sandow and Ziggler, but the Raw match I enjoyed a lot up until that shitty ending. I'd probably give it ***.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Zep quoted Cody approving the Del Rio project, then said nothing else about it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched the Rhodes Dynasty/Wyatt Family tag from SD, and holy fuck. I think it was Rah who said something about having to reconsider our workers of the year list now Goldust is back, and he isn't wrong. He's been back for a month (?) and had four matches, and all four were great.

vs. Randy Orton - *** 1/4
w/ Cody vs. The Shield @ Battleground - ****
w/ Cody and Bryan vs. The Shield - *** 1/4
w/ Cody vs. The Wyatt Family - *** 1/2

Insanity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Zep quoted Cody approving the Del Rio project, then said nothing else about it.


I meant to delete that bit as i was quoting PGSucks' post


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust already proving why he's basically been god like his entire career.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Good thing he's sticking around until WM 30 (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We need to keep these insider news under wraps b/c I don't like to read that stuff via spoilers. But the news leaves me :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh, and yeah, Codydust/Wyatts was awesome. Easy ***1/2. Everybody (even Rowan) did very well, but Jesus Goldust was GOLD.

*Tag matches in 2013.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rowan's bearhug ruled.

Still in the post-sex afterglow of seeing Harper work with Rhodes & freakin Goldust. Who would have seen that happening? Not me. Brilliant.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Rah said:


> Yep, match was pretty good; even with the slightly awkward finish. The dynamic between Goldust and the weird, cult-like wackiness of Harper meshed well and offered some light-hearted comedy to start the match off before Goldust just put things into high-gear and RULED. You wanna know something spectacular? He's a guy that's hardly had a match in a couple years yet he returns to the WWE as one of the best they have. He milks his segments to perfection and nothing comes across as wasted movement.
> 
> I sincerely hope we can get a rampaging Cesaro Vs Goldust before Cesaro goes face (if those rumours are true). Either way, though, Goldust looks to be back permanently and ready to make us all reconsider our workers of 2013 lists.


Good write-up. When it was announced that the Rhodes were facing the Wyatt Family, I was immediately intrigued by the Goldust possibilities. He did not disappoint.

Don't understand why the WWE would even get rid of such an interesting character in the first place. Like you said, he's been aces since he's come back.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Primer said:


> Tagged classics is probably the main reason why I am jealous I don't live in the UK. That or free PPVs. I heard that was a thing.


I am so jealous of those. I think I would legitimately but them all if I was in the UK.



PGSucks said:


> Whatever happened to Billy Kidman? Sure, he completely lacked any personality and his theme sucked, but I really liked some of his matches
> 
> Plus, the guy banged Torrie Wilson in her prime like 1,000 times, so he wins at life.


Kidman has had sex with Torrie Wilson and beat Hulk Hogan as heel. He is above all criticism. 


I'm pretty sure I've loved every Shawn/Bulldog match. It's been a while since I've seen them but I think I'm just a sucker for a lengthy match wrestled at a good pace. Hopefully they did wrestle at a good pace or my memory of why I liked the match has totally failed me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Rowan's bearhug ruled.
> 
> Still in the post-sex afterglow of seeing Harper work with Rhodes & freakin Goldust. Who would have seen that happening? Not me. Brilliant.


And he will, according to DEM SHITZ (and Mick Foley's wishes), work with Dean, Seth and Roman at Mania 30.

:wyatt


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> Yep, match was pretty good; even with the slightly awkward finish. The dynamic between Goldust and the weird, cult-like wackiness of Harper meshed well and offered some light-hearted comedy to start the match off before Goldust just put things into high-gear and RULED. You wanna know something spectacular? He's a guy that's hardly had a match in a couple years yet he returns to the WWE as one of the best they have. He milks his segments to perfection and nothing comes across as wasted movement.
> 
> I sincerely hope we can get a rampaging Cesaro Vs Goldust before Cesaro goes face (if those rumours are true). Either way, though, Goldust looks to be back permanently and ready to make us all reconsider our workers of 2013 lists.


I'll check it out, didnt see smackdown this week

For some reason I didnt like the 6 man tag on raw this monday, but the orton and battleground tag are awesome so Goldust is on a roll


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Question for a project I plan on doing: Rey Mysterio's best overall year in the WWE. 

Whichever gets the most "votes" (I guess) I'll probably do as my first real project, so all help/votes/advice will be extremely useful. I'm guessing either 2004 or 2010 will win, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^ was actually going to tell you to do a Rey Project when you asked for ideas a couple days ago  

DO 2010, although Yeah is doing a 2010 year project so idk if you want to watch some of the same matches him as Rey is no doubt gonna be on alot of his


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Question for a project I plan on doing: Rey Mysterio's best overall year in the WWE.
> 
> Whichever gets the most "votes" (I guess) I'll probably do as my first real project, so all help/votes/advice will be extremely useful. I'm guessing either 2004 or 2010 will win, but I could be wrong.


His 2005 program with Eddie would be my choice, but since everyone has seen those matches for the most part, I'll say his 2009 IC title program with Jericho was great and 2010 he was just on fire for the most part. 2010 would probably be the way to go if you weren't going 2005. His feud with Punk, the Undertaker dream match, 2/3 falls with Swagger, match with Kane, etc. He also had a 4-way at TLC that I haven't seen personally but I hear is good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I would actually go with 2009 for Rey. I mean, it's probably not his _best _in-ring year (or is it?) but it's one of my favorites. The IC Title series with Jericho & Ziggler get a huge (Y), then you have the Smackdown match against Morrison and his series late in the year with Batista. I never thought any of their matches were beyond "good" but the feud was a great one. Elimination Chamber too.

2010 would be a hell of a good choice too. Mysterio vs. Punk x4, vs. Swagger x3, vs. DEL RIIOOOOO, Undertaker, Elimination Chamber, etc. Great year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Honestly I'm thinking about it to myself, Am I crazy, but I think wm 26 is the mania match wise history ?

you have a ***** and like 3 ***1/2+ matches


Need something to watch right now


Edit: Cactus the ziggler/cena matches from 2010 are raw 12/20 and sd 12/21 or that friday's date

in a 2010 mood


----------



## Punkamaniac (Mar 26, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Question for a project I plan on doing: Rey Mysterio's best overall year in the WWE.
> 
> Whichever gets the most "votes" (I guess) I'll probably do as my first real project, so all help/votes/advice will be extremely useful. I'm guessing either 2004 or 2010 will win, but I could be wrong.


As Cactus Jack has already posted, do his programme with Eddie. 

You could also do his début year in the WWE as I'm sure he's had some quality matches.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Need something to watch right now


Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw at SvS 2005! Especially while we're on the subject of Rey!

FluxCapacitor, Rey in 2006. 

Can't say for sure that that's his best year, but everything I've seen from him that year was awesome.

2005 as well.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Seriously, just pick any year from Rey and it's gonna be enjoyable. 2002-2011. Just pick one! Full of gems!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Seriously, just pick any year from Rey and it's gonna be enjoyable. 2002-2011. Just pick one! Full of gems!


lol, to make it easier, why not just do a full Rey project? Though, that's a lot of work.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The more I think about it, the only years that aren't bringing up flashing lights of greatness are 2004, 2007, and 2008. I really can't think of much of anything outside of a few matches here and there with Chavo, Finlay, Kane, and that's about it. I think 2007 was an injury year and idk what the fuck he did in '08.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw at SvS 2005! Especially while we're on the subject of Rey!
> 
> FluxCapacitor, Rey in 2006.
> 
> ...


stop bugging me about this :lol I'll watch before some football

Yea that dolph/cena 12/20 raw is still the goods, great match *** 3/4


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> stop bugging me about this :lol I'll watch before some football
> 
> Yea that dolph/cena 12/20 raw is still the goods, great match *** 3/4


lol, you don't have to watch, it's not like it's one of my all-time favorite matches or something. Just something that I think that you would enjoy and is more your taste.

You asked for something to watch!

As for the Dolph/Cena ladder match, since you guys were talking about it earlier...that's the one where AJ interferes, right? The interference at the end was so cheesy, and I think is a perfect example of the WWE relying on crutches and making matches about things that it shouldn't be about. I didn't watch the whole storyline evolve, though, so maybe that's an unfair criticism. The crowd was hot, which helped make it a bit more enjoyable.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

2010 it is, that was the year I was originally leaning towards anyway. First post will be up tonight, possibly. First six matches include 1 vs. Jericho, 3 vs. Batista, 1 vs. HBK and the Rumble match against Taker. Can't say I've seen any of them, tbh.

unk2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2008 did have a couple of non-Kane gems. The Edge RR and Punk Armageddon matches for instance do NOT involve Kane at all 

Plus, he had a fun if not special return (sort of) match with Santino in 08 too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I could've swore not too long I came across a pack on XWT for the best matches on Main Event, since it had been on for one year. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? I can't find it anymore.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*team raw vs. team sd svs 05 *** 1/4*

- Fun match, but I'm a sucker for big tag matches so I like majority of them. :lol Batista seems like such a prick he just has that vibe about him and he was pretty much shit until 07 so why ? Back when commentators were passionate about an angle and it showed in this match, taz :lmao is hilarious in this match, and I actually didnt mind cole, commentary here was pretty good, made the match seem important. DAT SCM :mark: to Rey, damn


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I have still never seen that whole Survivor Series show in it's entirety.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There isn't anything else really to see aside from the main event tag. Flair/HHH too I guess but I've never really cared for that, certainly not when compared to their epic cage bout that ABSOLUTELY SHITS on the LMS match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It figures Triple H would win the shittier match and Flair would win the epic match :hmm:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

LMS is nothing compared to the cage match but it's still great. 2005 is probably the last great show for Survivor Series. Benoit/Booker on a solid opener, excellent LMS and one of the best traditional elimination matches. Cena/Angle was okay I thought and the divas match wasn't horrible. Bischoff/T-Long was shit but at least it ended after like 2 minutes.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I think Flair winning is one of the main reasons why it's an epic match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'd say 2007 was probably the last great, meaningful Survivor Series. Orton/Shawn for the WWE Title and Taker/Batista HIAC. Pretty good SSeries Elimination match too iirc.

EDIT: Of course 2011 was pretty major too, but I haven't seen it yet.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually just listened to Flair's 2013 shoot, and he prefers the svs match as opposed to the cage.


^^ I saw 2011 ec tag a day ago, real fun


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'd say 2007 was probably the last great, meaningful Survivor Series. Orton/Shawn for the WWE Title and Taker/Batista HIAC. Pretty good SSeries Elimination match too iirc.
> 
> EDIT: Of course 2011 was pretty major too, but I haven't seen it yet.


Thoughts on Taker/Batista Hell in a Cell? Don't believe I've seen that one, prolly the only Taker Cell match I haven't seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm a big fan of their HIAC. Though I love all of their series from 07, and the two matches in 08. Chairs match never happened. NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED. My review of the match here:



Spoiler: baptisa vursez teh lunderteker



*The Undertaker Vs Batista - World Heavyweight Title - Hell in a Cell - Survivor Series 2007*

There have been feuds in the past where a Hell in a Cell match didn't fit the kind of feud (DX/McMahons & Big Show, Triple H/Jericho, Triple H/Nash... damn, all Triple H matches lol), but this Hell in a Cell match was perfect for the Batista/Undertaker feud IMO.

Pretty much ever since their Last Man Standing match, I wanted to see these 2 in a Hell in a Cell match. Batista himself said in his book that a Hell in a Cell match with The Undertaker was a dream match for him, I just wonder if he knew it would ever happen when he wrote that lol.

The Cell for this match was one of the new, taller cells, so nobody would be expecting them to go on top like everyone seems to fucking want in this type of match. It also meant there was a very good chance they wouldn't leave the cell, and that isn't always a bad thing. It worked for a couple of matches, but some of them just seemed like they were doing it for the hell of it.

Once again, the little thing at the start of the match is just awesome. The Undertaker enters the cell last, and just slams the door shut. He doesn't fear Batista, and he certainly doesn't fear the cell, and he is making sure Batista knows it.

Its not long before The Undertaker gets control and brings in a steel chair. He has been in many Hell in a Cell matches in the past, so he has the experience, and he knows that weapons are legal and can make this type of match that much easier. He continues to show his experience in this match type, by using the cell as a weapon when he grates Batista's face on one of the cell walls.

One of my all time favourite weapon spots is brought back by The Undertaker here, when he places the steel chair under Batista's throat, and smashes Batista, and the chair, right onto the steel steps! Batista is bleeding from his mouth now, and we assume its coming from his throat. Its very rare that The Undertaker brings out that move, which makes it seem more devastating.

Batista is hurt, bleeding, and seemingly on the edge of defeat. However, he still has that awesome power and strength, and he pulls it out when he needs it the most right here, catching The Undertaker with a Spinebuster from an Old School attempt to gain control for the first time in this match!

Pure power and strength can only take Batista so far though, and its not long before the better conditioned and less worn down Dead Man is back in the drivers seat. He continues to use the environment to his advantage, and Batista is busted open, bleeding from the head AND internally now.

Its Old School that is the downfall of The Undertaker once again, as Batista stops it again and lands a superplex! Batista makes a mistake though, just like he did at Cyber Sunday, by going for a cover starting at the legs, allowing Undertaker to lock in a Triangle Choke!

The Animal lives up to his name when he gets back in control and just annihilates The Undertaker with the steel steps in the corner of the cell, hitting him again and again with them. If you watch closely, you can also see The Undertaker pull out a blade from his gloves, cut himself, and pass it to the referee right before he takes a couple of shots to the head from the steps .

It seems that no matter what Batista does to The Undertaker, the Phenom is just unbeatable in this type of match. He takes everything Batista throws at him, and keeps coming back. The same can be said for Batista though, who continues to take the punishment from The Undertaker and still manages to come back too! Its just a very brutal back and forth match, more brutal than any of their matches before!

Batista Bomb through a table! The Undertaker looks to be beat finally, but he somehow kicks out, and just like Cyber Sunday, everyone at this point pretty much believes that The Undertaker is going to win. When he finally hits a Tombstone, that belief is pretty much confirmed... until Batista kicks out! Holy fuck! I've seen this match before and I didn't remember THAT happening! Another throw back to Cyber Sunday, only with the roles reversed. The Undertaker is completely pissed that Batista kicked out, so he goes for another Tombstone, this time on the steel steps! NOW The Undertaker is going to win, right?

ITS EDGE! EDGE IS BACK! He levels The Undertaker with a camera, then uses the steel steps and a chair for a modified conchairto, and Batista retains!

This is a tremendous match, and like every other match so far, its better than I remembered it. The action, the pace, the brutality and the end all work perfectly to make this one hell of a match, and probably a top 5 Hell in a Cell match for me now. A great end to a great feud!

*Rating: ****1/4*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The only thing I remember from that HIAC is Edge's return, which was pretty badass. I'll have to watch the match again sometime soon. It gets pretty mixed reviews from what I've read.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Batista-Undertaker HIAC ***3/4, still an awesome Cell match

I prefer his Cyber Sunday 07 match w/ Taker more but different strokes for different folks.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Batista-Undertaker HIAC ***3/4, still an awesome Cell match
> 
> I prefer his Cyber Sunday 07 match w/ Taker more but different strokes for different folks.*


CS 07 is my absolute favourite match between the two :mark:. I put WM above it for sheer quality, but CS isn't far behind at all.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I loved Edge's return at HIAC. In fact I loved the build up to their WM match and eventual feud. It was almost a full year that Edge spent screwing over the Undertaker before they finally had a singles match. 

And I believe all of their matches (aside from their TLC match) were great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The journey to them feuding was great, but once they actually started doing promos and shit on each other it was dull as fuck. Basically the same thing week in and week out lol . Matches were great aside from TLC as you said.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Went to Walmart to go check out their $5 bin and see if there were any good WWE DVDs in there. I didn't find anything... other than like 15 copies of John Cena's "12 Rounds" 

And no, I didn't buy it


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

There are never WWE DVDs in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart. I once saw a stand that had a bunch of really cheap WWE DVDs like 6 or 7 years ago but that was a one time thing. Wal-Mart is pointless for WWE DVDs otherwise unless you want something that just came out. 

FYE is actually pretty great if you have a store with a lot of used ones. I think I walked out the other day with Vengeance 2003, HIAC 2011, NOC 2011, and the 4 Disc Austin DVD for like $21.



Callamus said:


> The journey to them feuding was great, but once they actually started doing promos and shit on each other it was dull as fuck. Basically the same thing week in and week out lol . Matches were great aside from TLC as you said.


Edge turned it around promo wise during the Summerslam build I thought. I honestly don't remember much of the feud aside from the matches, which probably indicates that you're right.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only good promo leading into SS for me was the one with FOLEY. And that was all Foley .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HIAC is easily my least favorite Batista/Taker match from their 2007 series. Find it kinda dull. Cyber Sunday and Wrestlemania battle for #1.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watched the awesomeness that is ADR/Christian ss 13 again, just a wonderful match, it truly is, so stiff yet so good. As the match goes on it gets better and better. Its funny because it just hit me Christian finally got the "One More Match" , it was just 2 yrs later

I'll say this about ADR, he has always been a solid worker, although in his early heel days, some matches could be life-less but since he turned face in the beginning of this year, he just been :mark: There is only 4 guys I could even MAYBE put of ahead of him in-ring (bryan,punk,cesaro,ziggler)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Edge/Taker HIAC fucking rules.

IMO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Edge/Taker HIAC fucking rules.
> 
> IMO.


Tis great but I do find it a tag overrated. Would put the Batista/Taker HIAC over it, and as far as the Edge/Taker series is concerned WM is way better than it too. BL and JD might actually be just as good too tbh. WM, BL and JD are an incredible series of matches that work off each other beautifully.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

TaylorFitz said:


> There are never WWE DVDs in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart. I once saw a stand that had a bunch of really cheap WWE DVDs like 6 or 7 years ago but that was a one time thing. Wal-Mart is pointless for WWE DVDs otherwise unless you want something that just came out.
> 
> FYE is actually pretty great if you have a store with a lot of used ones. I think I walked out the other day with Vengeance 2003, HIAC 2011, NOC 2011, and the 4 Disc Austin DVD for like $21.


I actually picked up 4 WWE DVDs online from Walmart recently for $5 a pop.

I hate paying full price for stuff that's why I'm always looking at bargains.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> HIAC is easily my least favorite Batista/Taker match from their 2007 series. Find it kinda dull. Cyber Sunday and Wrestlemania battle for #1.


I remember enjoying that match alot, but it has been awhile since I watched it.



> Edge/Taker HIAC fucking rules.
> 
> IMO.


Come on, everyone loves that match haha.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TaylorFitz said:


> There are never WWE DVDs in the $5 bin at Wal-Mart. I once saw a stand that had a bunch of really cheap WWE DVDs like 6 or 7 years ago but that was a one time thing.


I remember this! It had a bunch of '04 ppvs on there right? I bought like half that year and sold them all eventually. 



redskins25 said:


> Watched the awesomeness that is ADR/Christian ss 13 again, just a wonderful match, it truly is, so stiff yet so good. As the match goes on it gets better and better. Its funny because it just hit me Christian finally got the "One More Match" , it was just 2 yrs later
> 
> I'll say this about ADR, he has always been a solid worker, although in his early heel days, some matches could be life-less but since he turned face in the beginning of this year, he just been :mark: There is only 4 guys I could even MAYBE put of ahead of him in-ring (bryan,punk,cesaro,ziggler)


DEL RIIIOOOOO!!!

Really though, I've been watching all his 2010 work and I'm kinda ready to move on to better years, but I don't wanna miss out on any gems. He had a fun KOTR match with Bryan on RAW, but they'd go on to produce better. Repetitive is the word for it in 2010. Same opponents every week.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I remember this! It had a bunch of '04 ppvs on there right? I bought like half that year and sold them all eventually.
> 
> 
> DEL RIIIOOOOO!!!
> ...


Most of Del Rio had been petty blah up until this year.

Now I'm like :mark: everytime I see him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'd say 2007 was probably the last great, meaningful Survivor Series. Orton/Shawn for the WWE Title and Taker/Batista HIAC. Pretty good SSeries Elimination match too iirc.
> 
> EDIT: Of course 2011 was pretty major too, but I haven't seen it yet.





Callamus said:


> I'm a big fan of their HIAC. Though I love all of their series from 07, and the two matches in 08. Chairs match never happened. NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED. My review of the match here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome review Cal, thanks a lot. What seems to be the general consensus for takers feuds with Batista vs his feud with Edge, which do you all think is better, match quality wise? I've seen LMS, WM, and now HiaC with Batista, and all were absolutely superb, ****+ matches. I've seen WM an HiaC with Edge, and both were superb, ****+ matches. Which ones am I missing, other than that horrid chairs match which I will never watch again?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea not really a fan of his 2010 work, heard praise of the Rey series but there not THAT good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker/Batista:

WrestleMania 23 - ****1/2
Cyber Sunday 2007 - ****1/4
Backlash 2007 - ****1/4
Survivor Series 2007 - ****1/4
Smackdown 11/05/2007 - ***3/4
Smackdown 18/04/2008 - ***1/4
Smackdown 24/04/2008 - ***

CHAIRS DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!

Undertaker/Edge:

WM - ****1/2
Backlash - ****
JD - ****
TLC - *
HIAC - ****

I give the advantage to Taker/Batista .


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Awesome review Cal, thanks a lot. What seems to be the general consensus for takers feuds with Batista vs his feud with Edge, which do you all think is better, match quality wise? I've seen LMS, WM, and now HiaC with Batista, and all were absolutely superb, ****+ matches. I've seen WM an HiaC with Edge, and both were superb, ****+ matches. Which ones am I missing, other than that horrid chairs match which I will never watch again?



Here's how.id rate their matches: 

Taker/Batista

WM: ****1/4
HIAC: ****
LMS: ***1/2
Cage from SD: ***1/2
Cyber Sunday: ****

Taker/Edge

WM: ****1/2
HIAC: ****1/2
BL: ***3/4
TLC: ***1/2

Both amazing fueds. I can honestly say that Edge/Taker WM could be the most underrated WM main event ever.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> yea not really a fan of his 2010 work, heard praise of the Rey series but there not THAT good


I'm not gonna really say whether I'm a fan of it or not cause it wouldn't really matter. They brought him in, beat Mysterio and Hardy, then he had some form of match with Edge and/or Mysterio for like two months straight. I will definitely recommend the 10/8 match with Mysterio though, that one's tons of fun. I think his 2011 will be better than think though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oooo, and can't forget the Armageddon 2007 Triple Threat! It's where they transition wonderfully from Undertaker/Batista to Undertaker/Edge, and imo is one of the better triple threats the company has done. ***3/4 for that.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I really need to rewatch Taker/Batista LMS from BL 07. Haven't seen it in a long time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Undertaker vs Batista:

Wrestlemania - ★★★★½
Backlash - ★★★★
Smackdown Cage - ★★★¾
Cyber Sunday - ★★★★¼
Survivor Series - ★★★¼

Undertaker vs Edge:

Wrestlemania - ★★★★
Backlash - ★★★¾
Judgment Day - N/A
One Night Stand - ★★★★ (don't care what others say, I enjoyed it last time although I do need to rewatch it)
SummerSlam - ★★★★¼


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Edge/Undertaker TLC was a match I loved when I firs saw it. On a rewatch though all of the flaws were really obvious and it was frustrating to watch. 



Callamus said:


> Oooo, and can't forget the Armageddon 2007 Triple Threat! It's where they transition wonderfully from Undertaker/Batista to Undertaker/Edge, and imo is one of the better triple threats the company has done. ***3/4 for that.


Edge is such a great cowardly heel in that match. He appears to be downright terrified of both guys yet somehow wins the match anyway. 

That's another show that I need to pick up some day.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Most of Del Rio had been petty blah up until this year.
> 
> Now I'm like :mark: everytime I see him.


I hear ya, He did have some good matches in 2011



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm not gonna really say whether I'm a fan of it or not cause it wouldn't really matter. They brought him in, beat Mysterio and Hardy, then he had some form of match with Edge and/or Mysterio for like two months straight. I will definitely recommend the 10/8 match with Mysterio though, that one's tons of fun. I think his 2011 will be better than think though.


Yep, IMO his 2010 was meh but its understandable


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*King of the Ring 2001 review​*
*DDP comes out to cut a promo on the Undertaker to open the show, not a bad promo TBH. Heyman Is on Commentary and this show is already awesome! Lets get in to the matches! 

*Match # 1: Christian vs Kurt Angle( KOTR semifinals)*

Interesting match to start out, looks like it could be a fun match. I’ve never seen these two work together before so this should be different. Interesting match, not bad at all, just short and a little confusing. Shane is facing Angle tonight and for some reason costs Christian the match, I guess to tire him out? Yeah that makes sense haha. Not a bad opener and Angle advances. ** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 1*

*Match # 2: Edge vs Rhyno( KOTR semifinal)*

This sounds like it could be a good fight, hopefully it can live up to these expectations. This was a decent match. It could have been better but it was fun for what it was. Both these guys were in the prime of their career and could really go in the ring. Edge wins clean over Rhyno and moves to the KOTR finals against Angle. ** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 1*

*Match # 3: D-von and Bubba Ray vs Spike and Kane*

This is for the tag team titles and Kane is a surprise partner of Spike’s and I’m not expecting much of this match because the Dudleys are meh in non-table involved matches and spike sucks. This was a boring match, terrible wrestling and no energy at all from any of these guys, even Kane had no emotion whatsoever and the match suffered because of it. Ending got a lot better but it still was a bad match for the most part.*1/4

*CAL SCALE: 0.5*

*Match # 4: Kurt Angle vs Edge( KOTR finals)*

Wow this is really early for the KOTR finals, as usually it’s close to the end of the show. Angle tells Edge before the match that if he’s really his friend he’ll just forfeit :lol. Pretty decent match, but I guarantee that this will not be Angle’s best match tonight because the street fight with Shane is up soon :mark:. This starts out really fast but after the first 2-3 minutes it starts to slow down significantly. It then starts to heat up again after both Christian and Shane interfere and Shane costs Angle the match while the ref is down. Edge spears Angle and Edge is the 2001 KOTR. Awesome match TBH, best of the night so far. *** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 3*

*Match # 5: X-PAC vs Jeff Hardy( Light heavyweight title)*

Ahh the light heavyweight title, perhaps the most irrelevant belt in WWF history. Good thing this should be decent. What a slow beginning to the match and add in the fact that no one gave a shit about it makes this an automatic filler match between the KOTR finals and the street fight. Pretty shitty match TBH, these two could put on a great match and probably have but tonight they just didn’t click. *

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 6: Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon* 

This is going to be awesome! I’ve heard some awesome things about this match and how its above 4 stars, so the rating for this has the opportunity to go way up. What a fun match this was, I have heard the ME of this show isn’t good so this will most likely be my MOTN. Its amazing that Angle was able to pull off two decent matches and then go into a brutal match like this one. There was a good amount of blood in this match, but it wasn’t a cartoonish amount like in some matches, it fit better. Shane is really hit or miss in the ring but this is definitely a hit, and it doesn’t hurt to be working with someone as good as Angle. Solid match, makes this whole PPV better by a lot. **** ¼* 

*CAL SCALE: 6*

*Match # 7: Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit vs Stone Cold Steve Austin*

I’ve heard that this match just doesn’t live up to the expectations here, which is too bad considering it sounds so good on paper. Oh well, at least I have low expectations going in so it should be decent at the very least. This was not bad, but it really was disappointing. The match was way too slow for a triple threat and after the awesome match seen before and the crowd got a boring chant at times, which can be justified. All three of the guys rarely battled each other at the same time, as one guy was usually laying around somewhere, so it felt more like a one on one match with subs than a triple threat :lol. The whole crowd popped big for Booker T and this must have been his debut here in the WWF right? Such a slow match from start to finish and while OK, it didn’t have enough energy to be the classic it could have been. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2*

*TOTAL CAL SCALE: 13.5*​
*Current KOTR rankings
1: 2001(13.5)
2: 1996(10)​*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Oooo, and can't forget the Armageddon 2007 Triple Threat! It's where they transition wonderfully from Undertaker/Batista to Undertaker/Edge, and imo is one of the better triple threats the company has done. ***3/4 for that.


I need to check that Armaggedon match out, haven't seen that....

Speaking of good Edge triple threats, have you seen the Edge vs Cena vs Trips match from around 2006? Cant remember the event, it's on the KoK Triple H set I have. It's the one where Trips is wearing the "crimson mask" and Cena and Trips take turns smashing Edge's head into the announce table. One of my favorite Triple threats non Wm20, I think I had it around ***3/4 after last watch.

Edit- just checked, it's from Backlash 2006.

Edit again- I was just thinking, has a wrestler ever completely OWNED a gimmick as well as Undertaker OWNS Hell in a Cell matches? I mean, he had the one with HBK that is my second favorite match ever behind only Austin/Bret WM13. He has the one with Foley, that includes the top "holy shit" moment in WWE history and is one of e most notorious and well known matches in company history. Also it's the match I've probably watched more times than any other. Then he had the one with Brock that goes down as another one of my favorites, and was Brock's best match until the Cena/Punk matches. Then he has the ones with Edge, Batista, and Orton, all worthy of ****+ praise, and are in the top 5 for each guy for best matches they ever had. Then he has the one with Trips at Wm28, while that's not a favorite of mine a lot of people just want to stand up and shit all over themselves after watching it because of how awesome they think it is. Other than his Cell match with Kane, and in my opinion the match with Trips, he's delivered a freaking masterpiece each time he's stepped into the cell. He owns it, Taker owns that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye that triple threat is pretty great. ***3/4 for it, and the 4th best Raw match (TV and PPV) for 06 so far on my RAW 06 project that I haven't done anything with for a few months at least .


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Almost done with Wrestlemania 20 which is a nice show so far, I'm enjoying it. Just have Undertaker/Kane and the triple threat left which I am really looking forward to.

Also recently watched Badd Blood 1997, really bad ppv with the exception for the HIAC which I feel is deserving of *****. Brilliant match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker is good in the Backlash 2008 match. Edge is far, far from that. He's awful. Match is nothing more than average thanks to that. Used to love it now I find it flat pardon a good Undertaker show. He had better matches on TV leading up to Backlash in April.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Edge/taker is easily the most underrated streak match ever. Only competition is vs orton and MAYBE vs flair


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah. I'd say the Handicap from WM 19 is. That one is really good, but gets no respect. A good portion sing the praises of Undertaker vs Edge fairly often.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

yeah that WM 19 match is pretty good. 

Watching disc 2 of the ladder set, baseball game starts soon so won't finish for a while, ahh how I hate the school week . Anyway disc 2 and 3 should be up by the end of the week and then I'll continue my KOTR project. Will do one that most likely will be absolutely terrible, so either 1995 or 1999, which is worse? I'll do that one


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

alot like edge/taker here so I wouldnt say its underrated, most underrated streak match besides 19 is probaly nash wm 12


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love both the Edge/Taker WM and SS match, but I don't really see the appeal of any of the other three B-PPV matches. ONS sucked, Judgment Day was boring and kinda stupid, and Backlash was one of Edge's worst performances that I can remember.

I did not know that Paramore fans could also be football fans.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good call on the Nash match. That's a good one.

Smitty, KOTR '00 is also a pile of shit show. That could work for you too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy Shit

*hhh vs flair svs 05​*
This match is incredible, loved every second of it, just a flat out WAR between these two with nasty clair shots, chops etc. Starts off with HHH destroying flair and not even letting him even take his robe off, flair gets busted open, and looks like he has red paint on his face the entire time.Naitch however wont stay down, keeps coming back unitl the momentum changes when reverses a pedgree on the raw announcers table and puts HHH through one. Here comes Flair's comeback, terrific work on the HHH leg even out the playing field until HHH regains control and hit 3 pedigree on flair, but that STILL doesnt keep him down for the 10, HHH pulls out the sledge hammer and hits flair in the head, 10 count HHH wins !



This match is incredible, I LOVED IT, top matches 05 ? I know hhh/batista HIAC, the chamber and rey/eddie sd 05 is the top 3, but right now this is 4 idc, very good match

***** 1/2*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I really want to do a 2005 PPV project soon. But I can only find some of the PPVS from 05 online. I know I'm missing backlash and 3 other shows. Hopefully I find them soon.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You should, for some reason I cant think of other top matches from that year although I know there are so many, that hhh/flair though :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> You should, for some reason I cant think of other top matches from that year although I know there are so many, that hhh/flair though :mark:


Great call on that Nash match, I remember being semi-blown away at how good it was when I saw it for the first time about a year and a half ago when I got the Streak set. Nash is damn good in it, and Taker is taker. Both guys were great athletes for their size.

Just added that Naitch/Trips SVS match to my YouTube TV playlist, it's coming on after I finish the Armageddon 3-way. I'm excited for it, if it's better than their cage match it must be absolutely incredible :mark:. Always love some Naitch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Only got a couple more matches left for Mania 26. Been a bad show so far that has me baffled as to why people think it's all-time great level. Any chance I could get thoughts or star ratings from people on it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I used to love it. Then I saw it again for my WM project earlier in the year and, well... this:

R-Truth & John Morrison Vs The Big Show & The Miz - ** - 0.5
Ted DiBiase Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Randy Orton - * - 0
Kofi Kingston Vs Jack Swagger Vs Christian Vs MVP Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Drew McIntyre Vs Matt Hardy Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs Kane Vs Evan Bourne - ** - 0.5
Sheamus Vs Triple H - *** - 2
CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio - ***1/4 - 2
Vince McMahon Vs Bret Hart - NO - -1
Chris Jericho Vs Edge - ** - 0.5
Michelle McCool, Vickie Guerrero, Alicia Fox, Layla & Maryse Vs Beth Phoenix, Kelly Kelly, Mickie James, Gail Kim & Eve Torres - NO - -1
John Cena Vs Batista - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ***** - 9 + GOAT WM Match - 2 = 11


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A 2005 PPV project would be fun, but I think I'm the only one here that wasn't that impressed by 2005 PPVs. Almost all the shows had one really good match, but the rest of the matches were not that amazing. They're great shows to pick out good matches from, but the start-to-finish experience is not very good.

*WM 26*
R-Truth & John Morrison Vs The Big Show & The Miz - ****
Ted DiBiase Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Randy Orton - ***1/2*
MITB - ****3/4* (Huge mark for MITB matches though)
Sheamus Vs Triple H - ***3/4*
CM Punk Vs Rey Mysterio - ****1/2*
Vince McMahon Vs Bret Hart - *LOLWTF*
Chris Jericho Vs Edge - ****1/4* (Highly disappointing)
Diva's Nonsense - *DUD*
John Cena Vs Batista - ***3/4*
The Undertaker Vs Shawn Michaels - ******* (Needs rewatch though since I'm trying to cut down on the number of five-star matches I'm giving out)

I thought WM 26 was a good PPV and certainly one of the best from 2010, but 2010 really only had two other good shows (MITB and NoC).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Besides taker/HBK I havent seen single match from WM 26. I thought both jericho/Edge and Cena/Batista were regarded as good?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> I used to love it. Then I saw it again for my WM project earlier in the year and, well... this:


Went to your blog (!) to read what I've seen so far and other than you liking Trip/Sheamus more than I did and me liking MITB more than you did (seriously), we're pretty close with thoughts. Except you actually remembered who John Morrison's partner was in the opener. Screw it, I'm not editing the write-up.



funnyfaces1 said:


> MITB - ***3/4 (Huge mark for MITB matches though)
> Chris Jericho Vs Edge - ****1/4* (Highly disappointing)


WHC actually disappointed me as well.....and I expected it to be below-good. Yeah, um, this goes to everybody........don't act surprised when reading what I wrote about it. 

I liked half of MITB and if it stayed that good the entire match I probably would have added it to the list. Evan Bourne probably has my favourite performance of the night until I get to Taker selling the leg. I honestly wonder what I'll think of Cena/Batista. For most of the matches I've had some idea of what I might think of them going into them - with that one I have honestly no clue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On to the divas tag!


*crowd cheers*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

smitty915 said:


> Besides taker/HBK I havent seen single match from WM 26. I thought both jericho/Edge and Cena/Batista were regarded as good?


They are, and I used to have them at around ***3/4 each when I first reviewed the event back in 2010. Fuck knows what I was smoking.

Then again I don't smoke anything. So I was likely drinking.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> They are, and I used to have them at around ***3/4 each when I first reviewed the event back in 2010. Fuck knows what I was smoking.
> 
> Then again I don't smoke anything. So I was likely drinking.


And that folks, is why you should embrace straight edge. Or else you will have this wacky notion that Batista/Cena WM 26 and Hogan/Flair HH 94 are good matches unk5


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Went to your blog (!) to read what I've seen so far and other than you liking Trip/Sheamus more than I did and me liking MITB more than you did (seriously), we're pretty close with thoughts. Except you actually remembered who John Morrison's partner was in the opener. Screw it, I'm not editing the write-up.


 I liked a SHEAMUS match more than you and you liked a SPOTTY MATCH more than me? Well I guess I can expect people to like spot matches more than me most often... but you? CRAZY.

Also not hard to forget who Morrison's partner is when you like, write about the show as you watch it .



Callamus said:


> I used to love it. Then I saw it again for my WM project earlier in the year and, well... this:
> 
> R-Truth & John Morrison Vs The Big Show & The Miz - ** - 0.5
> Ted DiBiase Vs Cody Rhodes Vs Randy Orton - * - 0
> ...


Lol, just looked up my original review, and these were my original ratings:

3/4*
*3/4
***1/2
***
**1/2
***1/2
1/4*
***1/2
*****

If my calculations are correct it would get 23.5 points on the CAL SCALE making it the second best WM ever :lmao. Oh how it has fallen


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HA! Looks at those old-fool-Cal ratings. Five stars for the main event. Silly 2010-era Cal. Preposterous! 


I gave Edge/Jericho ***1/2 in 2010 too. I actually remember thinking that was a little too high for it even at the time but I felt like it 'deserved' it or something. I didn't hate Edge at that point though so that probably helped.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You watched that ECW tag yet?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I actually watched Hogan/Flair from the History of the WHC the other night. Had some fuckery, but Flair is GOAT in that match.

Oh, and I've only seen Sheamus/Trips, Punk/Rey and HBK/Taker from WM 26. Didn't much like Sheamus/Trips, but Punk/Rey is really good, and we all know about Shawn/Taker.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Great call on that Nash match, I remember being semi-blown away at how good it was when I saw it for the first time about a year and a half ago when I got the Streak set. Nash is damn good in it, and Taker is taker. Both guys were great athletes for their size.
> 
> Just added that Naitch/Trips SVS match to my YouTube TV playlist, it's coming on after I finish the Armageddon 3-way. I'm excited for it, if it's better than their cage match it must be absolutely incredible :mark:. Always love some Naitch.


DO IT ! idk some prefer the cage but I highly recommend this one


About mania 26 loved it 

punk/rey cena/batista hhh/sheamus and of course hbk/taker are all great


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> You watched that ECW tag yet?


Not yet. I'll make that the first thing I see after Mania.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Watched two matches that occured earlier this year. One ending with it above my earlier rating & expectation, one just falling below what I had hoped considering the reviews.

Let's start with the more recent one in the Dustin/Cody vs the Shield match-up. Very enjoyable tag match with a mixed bag of styles. Maybe their aim was to leave the crowd wanting more from the conflicts that arose in the ring, especially Goldust against both Reigns and Rollins. Goldust & Reigns in the ring was just fantastic. Every blow felt like an ignition engine went blazing off. Only other standpoint though was Dusty's elbow. Sweet moment. That said, still a good match but not spectacular.

And Christian/del Rio. Saw this back when it aired but felt like a little rewatch. The original viewing was ***3/4. Didn't expect it to go above that. But it did. Tough tackling match with great psychology and the perfect amount of everything. I also think it's above Lesnar/Punk & Bryan/Cena. Definately agree with some of the earlier praises I've seen of del Rio earlier in the thread. Guy is in the perfect position to hold the coveted wrestler of the year award. But Bryan will get it more from most fans. He deserves it but del Rio has had to work with a bit less and has come up looking like a top 3 wrestler in the company.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Only got a couple more matches left for Mania 26. Been a bad show so far that has me baffled as to why people think it's all-time great level. Any chance I could get thoughts or star ratings from people on it?


Don't ask me why, but during the entire time of 2010 I had this glow that everything WWE was doing clicked with enjoyment for me. Walked into that WM so hyped and pardon some specific results _(Sheamus & Punker losing - ahhhh)_, it didn't disappoint. Guess only Cena vs Batista did as far as any "expectations" went, but Cena won and pissed off fans so naturally I loved it. My reaction when Undertaker won was unforgettable. Some reason my sister noticed how I was acting during the match so she recorded it. I should find it...

I'm probably the biggest advocate of Sheamus' match. Thought it was really good and got that lug Trips to have his best singles WM match in quite some time. Plus, Punker vs Mysterio. Oh hell yes. MITB had Dolph Ziggler, Drew McIntyre, AND Evan Bourne in it. I have to like it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

loved that sheamus/hhh match, never seen that mitb though, ppl usually shit on it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh. It's fun and all that. Nothing to really hate on if you liked some previous efforts. I think it comes from b/c there were so many guys put in the match. A few of them didn't do anything. Such as Porter or Benjamin. They could have been left out, tbhayley.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao for some reason I had a dicussion with somebody and I'm rewatching orton/cena ironman now . I have only seen two ironman matches in my life 1) hbk/bret and 2) orton/cena. Doubt I watch the whole thing


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> :lmao for some reason I had a dicussion with somebody and I'm rewatching orton/cena ironman now . I have only seen two ironman matches in my life 1) hbk/bret and 2) orton/cena. Doubt I watch the whole thing


Maybe it would be better if you watched a 30 minute ironman match instead. Rude/Steamboat is the perfect one to watch. The last ten minutes are some of the most compelling bits of wrestling that I have seen.

I like the Ironman stipulation and I would consider all of the Ironman matches besides HBK/Bret to be good matches, but the only one that I would call a classic would be the Angle/Lesnar ironman match. I remember watching this together with a bunch of my fifth grade buddies hoping that Angle could pull off the victory. Bless those times. Nothing like Smackdown in the early 2000s.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Everyone know about this?



> WrestlingDVDNews.com reported this weekend that a "Shawn Michaels WrestleMania Matches" DVD and Blu-ray was scheduled by WWE for a February or March 2014 release.
> 
> A fan asked Michaels about this on Twitter and he confirmed the news. Michaels filmed interviews for the release while he was at last week's RAW.
> 
> ...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> And Christian/del Rio. Saw this back when it aired but felt like a little rewatch. The original viewing was ***3/4. Didn't expect it to go above that. But it did. Tough tackling match with great psychology and the perfect amount of everything. I also think it's above Lesnar/Punk & Bryan/Cena. Definately agree with some of the earlier praises I've seen of del Rio earlier in the thread. Guy is in the perfect position to hold the coveted wrestler of the year award. But Bryan will get it more from most fans. He deserves it but del Rio has had to work with a bit less and has come up looking like a top 3 wrestler in the company.


People are catching on. :mark:

Bold words about it being better than the other two main events though, you may be alone on that one. 

Gonna watch more Del Rio now. Hoping for some tag gems!

Btw, when this is all said and done (gonna be a while) I'll be comprising an entire list of Del Rio's best matches and you KNOW there's gonna be some surprises in there. I'll also be comprising his best matches from each individual year. I think we'll be seeing a lot of Christian...

FUN FACT: Del Rio has never wrestled on Superstars.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It was posted a couple of days ago. Surreal to think the WM XX triple threat may see the light of the day on DVD in 2014.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> It was posted a couple of days ago. Surreal to think the WM XX triple threat may see the light of the day on DVD in 2014.


Sorry, I haven't been around this thread much the last week or so.

I bet they skip the WM XX match. Sure it's not THAT many matches, but it wouldn't surprise me if they skip it. The Iron Man is sure to take up a ton of time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Maybe it would be better if you watched a 30 minute ironman match instead. Rude/Steamboat is the perfect one to watch. The last ten minutes are some of the most compelling bits of wrestling that I have seen.
> 
> I like the Ironman stipulation and I would consider all of the Ironman matches besides HBK/Bret to be good matches, but the only one that I would call a classic would be the Angle/Lesnar ironman match. I remember watching this together with a bunch of my fifth grade buddies hoping that Angle could pull off the victory. Bless those times. Nothing like Smackdown in the early 2000s.


Yea I hate the gimmick, most of these matches are slow, just mat wrestling filled, Ill pass



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Everyone know about this?


yea dude somebody posted it earlier, I think wm XX triple threats on it not sure, Im conflicted on buying it because Im such a huge hbk fan and there all in one place, but saying that ive seen most of these big ones post mania 10 4x each


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Sorry, I haven't been around this thread much the last week or so.
> 
> I bet they skip the WM XX match. Sure it's not THAT many matches, but it wouldn't surprise me if they skip it. The Iron Man is sure to take up a ton of time.


I don't think that would make any sense. They're promoting it as Shawn's Wrestlemania matches so it only makes sense that they don't rip off fans by excluding one match. Plus they've gone easy on the Benoit censorship in the past couple of years so it's likely he'll make another DVD appearance some time soon!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I agree with you, but I'm really not sure if they would actually feature Benoit and talk about him. I wish they would, because the match is so great, and features a great moment. 

That's actually the only reason I would pick up such a DVD - to hear the participants commentary on the matches. That said, I'd love to hear Taker talk about the WM matches. 

Fuck it, it'll be online, so not much use in paying for it.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Holy Shit
> 
> *hhh vs flair svs 05​*
> This match is incredible, loved every second of it, just a flat out WAR between these two with nasty clair shots, chops etc. Starts off with HHH destroying flair and not even letting him even take his robe off, flair gets busted open, and looks like he has red paint on his face the entire time.Naitch however wont stay down, keeps coming back unitl the momentum changes when reverses a pedgree on the raw announcers table and puts HHH through one. Here comes Flair's comeback, terrific work on the HHH leg even out the playing field until HHH regains control and hit 3 pedigree on flair, but that STILL doesnt keep him down for the 10, HHH pulls out the sledge hammer and hits flair in the head, 10 count HHH wins !
> ...


Glad to see some love for this. Most people seem to prefer their cage match, which is fantastic in its own right, but LMS is superb and my favorite match of their series. Might be Flair's best WWE match now that I think about it. Depends on how the Michaels retirement match holds up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Del Rio Project - Post 4
*
*









:lmao

Triple Threat #1 Contender's Match
*Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio (_Smackdown - October 29, 2010_)

This match actually came about when the ballsy Del Rio interrupted Undertaker's funeral that Kane was conducting and demanded he get a World Title shot, which ends in all hell breaking loose, Del Rio attacking Kane, Mysterio gives a 619 to Paul Bearer, and Edge spears Kane. So Teddy Long makes this our main event. This match pretty much echoes all my thoughts on the last Triple Threat match I reviewed. Mysterio is the highlight and provides all the fun moments while everything inbetween was slow. They tried to make the match important by having them slog around the ring like they'd been through a war, but there's not really too much to see here. Couple decent 3-man spots and false finishes down the stretch but a lengthy contest with a slow ass Edge that picks up a win and gives us that lolworthy feud with Kane.

** 3/4 

_***The very next week on Smackdown, Del Rio would go 1-on-1 with Edge in the opening match, which turned out to be pretty enjoyable until Nexus invaded Smackdown and attacked both. They'd go on to have 5-on-5 match in the main event but Del Rio would walk out on Team Smackdown***_

--------------------------------------------

*Non-Title Match
*Intercontinental Champion Kofi Kingston vs. Alberto Del Rio (_Elimination Chamber 2011_)

WOAH guys. This is a great match. Haven't seen it since this ppv aired so I decided to give it another shot and I'm quite glad I did. The atmosphere was fantastic here as a good portion of the crowd was cheering for Del Rio while the rest were still cheering for Kofi. Nothing but cheers!  Del Rio uses Ricardo as a distraction to gain the upperhand at the bell and executes a Jack Swagger-like single leg sweeping slam. No looking back from there as Del Rio would toss Kofi into the ringpost on the outside and attack his ribs. That's right guys, NOT your typical Del Rio match where he attacks the arm. He attacked the ribs here and it was a constant story throughout the match that Kofi shockingly sold really well. Del Rio pulled out some shit he'd never done before in this one, hitting a couple gutbusters and hangman's neckbreaker out of the corner. These two were able to put together some excellent counters and create some very nice false finishes (thanks to Ricardo) on there way to delivering a fantastic opening bout on ppv here. At this point in his career, this was the match that I believe truly cemented Del Rio as a staple in the main event scene and as a guy who could work the WWE style to a tee. His matches with Mysterio put us on notice, but he looked much more confident here. Not cocky and arrogant like his character was portrayed, but confident in his work. Outside of just a couple moments where Kofi would have to take that extra spin or jump to annoyingly deliver his offense, this was a real joy to watch. Even the struggle in the cross armbreaker was well done. Crowd applaused Del Rio in victory.

*** 1/2

--------------------------------------------

Alberto Del Rio (w/ Brodus Clay) vs. Christian (w/ Edge) (_Smackdown - March 25, 2011_)

A week after their Steel Cage match (which apparently everyone else likes more than I do ), these two face off once again in the main event. This time around each guy has a man in their corner. Del Rio has his IMPRESSIVE NXT rookie Brodus Clay and Christian has his best friend and World Heavyweight Champion Edge. The stipulation here is that Edge & Del Rio must not have any contact with each other or BOTH of them will be banned from Wrestlemania and their match will be called off. So obviously they didn't touch each other.  Anyways, another good match here from these two. Del Rio attacks the arm, Christian sells it well, they have some nice spots and drama down the stretch, and eventually Edge distracts Del Rio enough while he attacks Brodus on the outside and allows Christian to hit the killswitch to pick up another win. Postmatch, Edge thinks about attacking Del Rio with a chair but Christian yanks it away and wails ADR in the back with it. Del Rio had ZERO momentum going into his Wrestlemania debut, losing to Christian two weeks in a row now. :no:

***​


----------



## Hennessey (Jan 1, 2012)

I bought Elimination Chamber 2012 yesterday and damn, it sucked outside of 1 match. So just some quick ratings. 

1. Raw EC - ****
2. Divas match - DUD
3. SD EC - **3/4
4. US title match - DUD
5. Cena/Kane - **


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WrestleMania 3/28/10

The Big Show/The Miz v. Somebody/John Morrison
Who was Morrison’s partner? I was honestly paying good attention to this and have forgotten. I could go check right now but why spoil it. I want to say it was R-Truth because I remember his ‘what’s up’ bullshit plaguing the arena, but I could be confusing that with the last PPV (where he sung like a doofus on the way to the chamber – selling that giant steel demon prison fittingly). This wasn’t long and I only really remember the great finish where the Miz blind tagged Show and Morrison went to do some springboardy second rope thing and Show clocks him in the mouth. Kind of random to have these four in a match like this at Mania (or it might not have been that random; again I’m 100% sure who Morrison was with). NOT ADDING.

Legacy three-way
I. Was. Not. Looking. Forward. To. This. Pretty sure I almost can’t care about Orton post-2008 even when he’s doing something interesting (like the Christian feud in 2011), Cody is a guy I wish I could like way more than I do but disappoints me when I start to get behind him, and I have never, ever, ever understood why anybody thought little Million Dollar Man had any potential whatsoever. If paint drying stomped five thousand times in one match it’d be that dude (IDK what this means but I am keeping it here). So this realistically it has a neat back-story with Rhodes and Ted Jr coming up with a ‘we don’t care which one of wins as long as Orton loses’ way of thinking but they had such a predicably bullshit way of playing it out. I had a bunch of fun watching Orton fooling Rhodes into going outside only into going for DiBiase, and spots of that kind of nature, but there was just too much double-team stomping/lame punching and ‘what!? Why did you my break my pin!?’ crap to keep it fun. ‘Dissention in the ranks!’ Whatever. I don’t give a shit. These guys are so fucking dull. Maybe I’m too hard on it, but this goes like 45 minutes (Wikipedia says 9 but they are liars) and was so goddamn average that it came off as bad. I have nothing else to say about this. NOT ADDING.

Money in the Bank
McIntyre!!!! Matt Hardy!!!! Christian!!! Evan Fucking Bourne!! Jack Swagger’s ridiculous robe!!! Shelton….bleh. MVP…..I like him outside of 2010. Kane…..bleh. Dolph Ziggler…..I hope to have a full opinion on him – or at least his 2010 - when this list is done. Kofi Kingston!
…..
………	
He had ridiculous hair at least.
OK so I enjoyed this a lot at first. Bourne was awesome, scurrying up the ladder underneath people who were already climbing the ladder, climbing the side triangle-looking part of the ladder, using the SSP as a spot that actually looks like he’ll profit from it. KOFI ON STILTS! I don’t care if there was another ladder within reasonable reach – he used the broken pieces as stilts. FUCKING STILTS! And on ‘broken pieces’, Kane ripping the ladder apart with his bare hands to create the stilts (IIRC) was badass. Kane also throws somebody to the outside over the top rope and you don’t get a camera angle of the bump so you just see the dude fall and hear this incredible ‘thump’, like it’s a Looney Tunes moment or something. McIntyre comes in to spoil the stilts fun and I love how against him everybody is. They care not about spots at this point – they want McIntyre out, booing him like crazy. Drew getting crotched on the rope from the ladder was perfect for that situation. Speaking of getting crotched, I couldn’t help but notice Kofi may have landed willy-first onto a ladder rung while trying to run up it to attack Kane. 
Matt Striker – “Many experts believe Kofi Kingston is the favourite to win” 
*Kofi botches* 
Cole: “And that’s one of the reasons why”. 
I liked the part where Swagger was being crushed between two horizontal ladders while in a set up one, and then pushing one of them from underneath so Hardy falls. Ziggler’s zigzag from the ladder didn’t look stupid as shit. Like, watching past MITBs, dudes will suplex each other off of ladders and the person doing the suplex will have hurt themselves just as much. Uh, yeah, why did you do that? You can’t climb the ladder anymore and there were people on adjacent ladders so you literally did not benefit yourself in any way. Just a shitty excuse to get out of the ring and get another ‘holy shit’ spot in. Which is why I liked stuff like the zig zag here – it was a big spot, no crap, but at least it looked like he did it to benefit himself; he still (awkwardly and slowly) climbed back up the ladder because he’d actually taken his opponent out instead of BOTH OF THEM. This actually gets pretty worthless after a while. There are cool little thingys here and there (Swagger taking eight minutes to unhook the briefcase was the best part), but I cannot stand the ‘you get out I come in’ rubbish. Ruins it. I thought I was going to like this way less than I did though, maybe I’m warming up to these multi man ladder fests? NOT ADDING

HHH v. Sheamus
Helmsley was such a boring work-from-underneath babyface that it’s almost completely forgettable that he even worked from underneath in the first place. He actually looks uncomfortable not being on offense for that long, but maybe I’m mistaking his old weezy guy selling for that. I don’t know how to explain how he performed here; he had no stand out movements, comebacks, hope spots, facials expressions - nothing. What’s his idea of getting back on offense? Waiting until his opponent walks toward him while he’s in the corner of the ring so he can hit an average looking mid-section boot? Mild punches? Boring. FFS, do something. On a backbreaker he sold it for a second like his armpit was electrocuted. There wasn’t anything impressive about any of this and Trip didn’t bust out a showing that you couldn’t see from any guy on the roster who’s better then R-Truth. Well, OK, if I can say one really positive thing about this, it’s that the time HHH ducked the big boot looked really fluid. Sheamus also sold the figure four post-figure four really well. Um, yeah, Sheamus. He wasn’t as bland Helmsley, but I can sort of see why I wasn’t on the big pale ginger train at the time. Looked fine, but he seemed very undeserving of the push he had gotten. He should have still been working with guys like Goldust (and I watched most of that feud last year and it fucking ruled, Sheamus included). This was far from bad and I sure as hell didn’t hate it, but it came off as ungodly average. NOT ADDING.

Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
Talked about this already, copy and paste with a spelling error fixed! – 



> It’s been said before; this is a freakishly good match for six and a half minutes. I really love shorter matches, and it’s really impressive that two guys can create a match like this in a short amount of time. What’s so impressive to me is the selling. Sure, anybody can create a short match filled with tons of big spots. A big elaborate moonsault counter with supreme cheese suplex takes ten seconds to execute; you can pull of tons of them in the time given. But I love how two guys like Rey and Punk can kick out of these big moves, hit more, and not make any of it look like wasted motion, spotty selling, or just a mess of moves. Rey is so fucking good. I totally loved how, at the beginning here, he was moving side to side and really putting over Gallows and the bald chick as people he has to look out for in addition to Punk. Then Gallows pounds the mat to grab Rey’s attention so Punk can jump him and begin his scumbaggery. Punk’s offense is so much better as a heel. I’m almost completely positive that he just works stiffer and tighter when he’s called on to be the jerk. He had some great stomps here and that reversal of the _whatever_ that resulted in Rey getting face-planted on the steps was stupendous. I was really impressed with Punk’s timing here on a couple of things, too. The nuts-onto-ring-post spot can usually look like the guy is clearly backing into the post to split his fruit basket. While it’s pretty much impossible to get it to look realistic (without actually causing genital damage, I imagine), Punk didn’t make it look outlandish. That DDT spot was super. It was sort of fucked up by the time Rey had loosely grabbed Punk’s head, but it looked like Punk knew that and went ‘fuck it, six minutes at Mania, I’m not letting anything fuck up’ and dove head first just to save the spot from being a botch. Rey pulls out a couple of sweet ass arm drags variations, and the 619/GTS reversals looked really cool; I especially liked Rey elbowing Punk’s head on every GTS attempt to get the hell out of there. Gallows and Not-Gallows Girl had awesome interferences and despite the length the match is really satisfying. First match for the list. ADDING


Bret Hart v. Vince McMahon
I had never seen this before or even knew much about it going in. “This can’t be as bad as everyone says it is, right?” Honestly, I don’t think it is. It kind of blows and there are so little positive that it hurts, but I didn’t see a negative five stars bomb. I was immediately horrified when I saw the Hart family come out on Vince’s side as I thought I was getting some disgustingly lame heel turn whatever, so I actually felt pleased when Bret announced they were just double agents the whole time. Then of course Bret starts worthlessly punching Vince, which, if you take out the ‘worthlessly’, is sort of the way I like these revenge matches to start, but, well, it looked like shit. Execution means a lot, even if what’s on paper reads nicely. I thought this should have maybe started out with the entire Hart family beating on Vince senselessly before Bret gets him alone, but when the actual wrestlers of the group (Nattie/Kidd/Smith) couldn’t even make this interesting, I realised that the non-wrestlers would have maybe fucked this up even worse. Vince crawling under the ring trying to escape was hilariously great and better than anything in the HHH/Sheamus match, but they managed to fuck that up too by having him hold a weapon and have every member of this wrestling family act petrified of him. Would have been ****3/4 if Bret could baseball slide him right there, though at least Vince didn’t really get to use the weapon. Bret’s multiple teases of the sharpshooter were terrible. Like, dude, it’s what everyone is waiting for. The chair shots at least brought new life into the match. Sort of. NOT ADDING.

Chris Jericho v. Edge
Yay! It’s two wrestlers wrestling back and forth in a match that you could go to any random indy show and see! This is awful. I originally had zero hope for this being any good, but I saw that they actually had something to work with in the video package – spear v. Achilles tendon. Edge had hit the spear multiple times on Jericho, and he said ‘one more time and you won’t be champion any more’. OK, good. Jericho knew of Edge’s injury and said he would exploit it. OK, good. Only almost none of that happened. I was completely expecting back and forth sub-indy bullshit from these two, especially in 2010, but for fuck’s sake, if you have this little story to work with how about you capitalize on it? They start boringly chain wrestling which isn’t horrible but I don’t need it. At the very least though I can understand having a match be kind of back and forthy when it starts. Then Jericho gets on top and my God what a bore. I still didn’t think it was awful at that point, but, dude, Jericho, you said you were going to attack Edge’s injury…you have the match. How about you start NOW? Oh no, we can’t have that – we need reversals and more back and forth. Of course you do. It’s not even the kind of back and forth I can tolerate. I remember writing about the CM Punk/Matt Hardy match for the 2008 KOTR months back, and I said reversals didn’t bother me if no offensive move was hit. You’re not ignoring any move that’s already happened – you’re smartly preventing it from happening. No, here they hit the moves and lifelessly throw some bland ‘I’m tired but still hitting shit’ motions back, with seemingly no thought behind them. And it’s not as if any of it looked good on execution either. Jericho did at least have a badass reversal of the spear into the walls, which Edge reversed into a pin of some kind. Then Edge gets up immediately following that (no selling the Walls), and eats an elbow about as convincingly as a toddler playing Power Rangers. Edge’s best spot in the match was stopping Jericho’s spear by booting him directly in the face. Then, naturally, ruining it by getting ready for his own spear by embarrassingly clawing his hands out and making those ridiculous faces. I really hate watching Edge. I just fucking hate it. I did appreciate that they worked the spear into this – in a way that Jericho had to avoid it, but it was too separated by random piles of nothing. Some BS goes on outside and then the ref gets knocked over about as convincingly as Edge playing wrestling. Jericho, after an eternity of bad THIS STUFF, finally attacks the Achilles which forces Edge to fight back for two seconds on one leg. See? Isn’t this what the match should have been!? I don’t see why nobody thought ‘we should have a match where Edge has his injury worked on and gets hopeful shots in, including spears’. That would have worked, I’d think!? Maybe not, because Edge does a Cactus Clothesline, lands on the ankle, and doesn’t even acknowledge it. Oh what a great worker that man was. Fuck Edge. Jericho hits like his 7th codebreaker to finally put my misery to an end. I cannot stress how much I didn’t like this. Just crappy wrestling. Keep this dire, dreary, lifeless scat away from me. NOT ADDING.

Divas
With Layla, Vickie Guerrero, and Maryse on the same team, I was expecting this to have five thousand times the personality that the ‘classic’ of a World Championship had. It sucked regardless and having this many wrestlers in a match as short as this is bad idea as approximately none of them get to be highlighted, but at least it didn’t drag. OK, it kinda did. Vickie taking the offense early was completely awful. She’d eat a punch from Beth Whatsherface and still have the ‘nooooo!’ reaction, as if the punch meant nothing. Then Kelly Kelly has the perfect opportunity to slap Vickie in the face and instead boots her in the mid-section and drops a leg on her (pretty violently, I might add). Shortly after, the train of shitty finishers starts going and it’s a horrendous flow of messy shit, with especially Eve fucking up her lame-ass somersault. At least Vickie hiding in the corer was kind of cool, and Vickie’s top rope frog splash thingy was funny. So was when she couldn’t even hold a pin properly. Like, a normal pin. In short – fuck the Edge v. Chris Jericho match. NOT ADDING.

Batista v. John Cena
I was actually tempted to add this, as the finish stretch was hot and really well worked. Truthfully yhough as far as I can say Rey/Punk from the same night is probably the ‘worst’ match I want on the list and I didn’t think this was as good as that. Still, again, the finish stretch was pretty damn well worked and I was surprised how well each move was shifted into an opponent’s move. I made the comment in the shitty WHC match that they were eating moves and then getting on offense themselves. Realistically I could say that happened here, but it was seamless and done in a way that makes me think ‘he was lucky to get that in’ instead of ‘did that move even hurt?’ Best example was Batista getting out of the STF and rushing a spear immediately following. Batista, even after hitting the spear, was holding his head like it had been stuck in a workbench vice, and could barely even take advantage of on his own opening. Cena then struggles to get to the corner to avoid any more pin attempts. That top-rope test-of-strength was great as all shit and slots perfectly into a main event battle finish run like this. Wish more matches had that. I really liked the kick out of the AA, the AA itself looked like it took shit tons of effort, and when Batista kicks out Cena just has this ‘this is awful. I saw it coming, but this is awful’ look on his face. Cool as all shit that he pushed his chin to try to fix his neck up too. Pre-finish run this isn’t really worth taking note of and is mainly the reason I’m not adding it (the awkwardness and ‘he’s clearly going into it’-ness of some of the move catches and reversals didn’t help either), but, yeah, I did consider it after he match had finished. Sort of takes a while to really get going, but good match. NOT ADDING.


Shawn Michaels v The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)

Feels like I’ve re-posted this multiple times, but I’ll do it again: 



> First thing's first - Matt Striker sucks and has no place in a commentary booth. NOW, the story to this is sort of the same as the previous years, but Michaels' career is on the line so that obviously adds a bigger sense of drama. The thing is, I don't think they express drama in this anywhere near as good the XXV match. That said, this is the third I've watch this (and the second in the span of about 9 days), and I've probably "got it" more now than on either previous watch. But I still don't think this is great. This match has an extremely good reputation, and is called the best match ever by some people. So when someone doesn't think it's great, it kind of looks like they don't like it. I do like it, and it's a good match, but I don't see much more than that. The opening I like a lot. They've both had their big Mania match already, and this time Shawn's career is on the line, so he's going to mock Taker's cut-throat and when Taker gets mad, Shawn'll get on him and attack. Still, Taker's the bigger, badder ('badder' isn't a word but IDC fuck off) guy. So Shawn moves to the leg which Taker crippled himself after the Old School Rope...Thingy, and he does a pretty good job, but it doesn't captivate me. But I will say this - after 25 years Michaels FINALLY learnt how to put on the figure-four. Goddamn, Shawn, put their crossed leg over their straight one. Anyway, what draws me into all of the leg stuff is Taker's selling (surprise); even after Shawn had stopped the leg work, Taker was trying to get feeling back into it and wobbling around and falling over after big moves. I liked him sort of sacrificing his own leg to avoid the elbow drop as well. Then he goes for another potentially ridiculous dive until Shawn runs in and sweeps the leg, which was cool. I said this match sort of lacked the execution of drama that XXV had, and the tombstone to the floor (which was pretty cool), sort of gives off that vibe. In 2009 Taker's dive felt like a game-changer, Michaels' initial tombstone kick-out felt like a game-changer. This didn't really have that same feeling. I can't explain why. Again - there's nothing wrong with it and it's 'good', but I don't feel 'great'. I still dug it. What I didn't dig was that weird Last Ride counter. The commentators were deciding whether it was Taker's leg blowing out or Michaels countering it, but IDK, looked awkward and it shouldn't take me five watches to get what it is. Probably not as shitty as the XXV DDT, I'll admit. Now - the moonsault. I still don't feel about his moonsault what I felt about the biggest stuff at WM XXV, but it's definitely the biggest spot of the match. I hate set-ups where there's a superkick and the opponent conveniently lands on a certain area, but I can get past it. The moonsault itself was pretty great and whether he aimed for the knee or not is irrelevant - he landed on that motherfucking knee. And what else I really liked is, when he got Taker in the ring, he didn't bother to continue to work on it, he went straight for the superkick instead. I said Taker's dive starts part 2 of the XXV match, and Michaels' moonsault sort of starts part 2 of this match. Only part 2 here is much shorter. After Taker kicks of the superkick, Michaels kicks out of a tombstone and Taker goes to the cut-throat signal to finish. But he stops and Shawn grabs Taker's clothes to pull himself up. I said yesterday (or whenever) that I didn't find Shawn's acting as hammy as usual, and I kind of jinxed myself. I mean it wasn't THAT bad at all, but I didn't really like it that much either. The jumping tombstone was cool but it wasn't a mind-blowing thing for me like it is a lot of people. SO.......yeah. This is a good match, I've always thought it was a good match, but it has an "All Time Classic" following that I don't even come close to agreeing with. I don't think XXV is a classic either, but that one I'd actually say is great; this on is not a great match. There isn't anything specifically wrong with it, but it doesn't do "HOLY SHIT THIS IS MOTHERFUCKING AWWWWWESOME!!!!!!" for me. I don't think I'll ever see it.


Today’s watch notes: 
I don’t agree with ‘I “got it” more than ever before’, but this actually looks better after watching a show that was mostly garbage. Only other thing I have to add is that Michaels end-match acting wasn’t so much hammy for me this watch as much as it was…****-erotic. Like I expected him to grab the mic and start singing. “So slide over here, and give me a moment, your moves are so raw, I’ve got to let you know, I’ve got to let you know – You’re one of my kind.” Match of the night of a horrifically overrated and worthless show. Compliment GIVEN! ADDING.


These PPVs better improve; the Undertaker isn’t going to be around the whole year to do something interesting in the main event of the show. At least there’s Rey v. Punk for a couple more.

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
3.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
4.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
5.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
6.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
7.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
8.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
9.	d
10.	d
11.	d
12.	d
13.	d
14.	d
15.	d
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d
26.	d


Other contenders:


----------



## law_1990 (Aug 27, 2013)

So i'm watching Backlash 2001 and just finished shane o mac Vs. Big show.
Fuck i miss shane, man. Guy throws himself off the top of the set for fuck sake :lol:
And the end when test props him up on the camera beam omg :lol :lol :lol

I know he was never a legit wrestler but he always gave it his best. Taking some stupid bumps for people's entertainment. If he ever came back it'd make me start watching WWE on the regs again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I enjoy Yeah1993's reviews so much.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Read every word right now. Always worth it. Forgot I originally came in here to say that the Del Rio vs Kingston match from Elimination Chamber is nothing special and the only one on the Del Rio list I would praise. Hot crowds mean nothing if the wrestling doesn't pop.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)




----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

btw, who was John Morrison's partner?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I want to say Tommy Dreamer but I'm pretty damn sure I'm wrong.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I think it's a paradox. Morrison had no partner. We'd remember Tommy doing his EC-Dub thing.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It was Truth.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I remember thinking that tag was fairly bossy for the time it got.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, am I the only one that fairly enjoyed Orton/Cody/DiBiase Jr? At least the story was well told for what it was - starts as 2 on 1, Cody and Ted(dy) implode, Orton dominates them both and wins. Could've been worse :side:


----------



## Raging Eboue (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm in the mood for some Umaga, anything I should check out apart from the 2 matches against Cena?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Raging Eboue said:


> I'm in the mood for some Umaga, anything I should check out apart from the 2 matches against Cena?


Matches against HHH and Jeff Hardy come to mind.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Street Fight with Haitch Haitch Haitch and every single match he had with Jeff Hardy.

Oh, and if my memory is not wrong, the match with Punk at Judgment Day 09 (CHICAGO PAI PHER VIEUWE BITCHEZ) was pretty solid too.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Raging Eboue said:


> I'm in the mood for some Umaga, anything I should check out apart from the 2 matches against Cena?


Think he also had a decent big man match with Kane. Can't remember any details of it ATM but I remember it not being too shabby.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Primer said:


> Read every word right now. Always worth it. Forgot I originally came in here to say that the Del Rio vs Kingston match from Elimination Chamber is nothing special and the only one on the Del Rio list I would praise. Hot crowds mean nothing if the wrestling doesn't pop.


I think you worded that wrong but either way I expected it. Even though most of us don't like Kingston, I'll be the first to say he's had a small handful of good matches. This being one of them. The wrestling popped, crowd was hot, structured well, had a story, everything worked.



Raging Eboue said:


> I'm in the mood for some Umaga, anything I should check out apart from the 2 matches against Cena?


Watch his performance his in the WWE Title 2008 Elimination Chamber, aside from the other matches mentioned of course.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Glad to see some love for this. Most people seem to prefer their cage match, which is fantastic in its own right, but LMS is superb and my favorite match of their series. Might be Flair's best WWE match now that I think about it. Depends on how the Michaels retirement match holds up.


Thank you sir, match was great

You bring up a interesting question, Best Flair match in the wwe ? You may be right actually, I'll try to watch the cage later today, I always start it and my focus/mind just drifts off 20 mins in ALL the time. hbk/flair wm 24 is phenomenal and is my favorite match of all time, but that doesnt mean best. I havent seen it in a while either, I just saw my rating gave it ****1/4 on the last watch so as it stands svs 05 is better



And I read every word of Yeah's review, although I think the show is no where near garbage


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cage with HHH is probably the GOAT Flair match in WWE imo. Only other than comes close is the WM 18 match with 'Taker. Crazy Old Man Run > 92 Run .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Old man flair is just :mark: , I miss the 92 hair, mr perfect and heenan though

Going to make two claims, I have watched enough too back it up

1) HHH 04-05 >>>>>> 00

2) Flair is HHH's best opponent not named Mick Foley


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

For what it's worth, I absolutely love Flairs match with Savage at Mania, they absolutely tore the house down, best match on the card IMO, better than Piper/Hitman. I do have to say I enjoyed Flairs old man run 2002-on more, his match with Taker is really awesome, Taker definitely led Flair through that match but by the end you could see the old Naitch coming out. That whole build was a real treat. Flair also had some great tags in the Evolution days, and his matches with Hunter on Raw in Greensboro (or was it Charlotte? Can't remember, it's the one where everyone comes out afterwards and thanks Naitch for being Naitch and Flair gives one of the most emotional speeches I've ever heard) the Cage match, and LMS speak for themselves. So yea, other than Flairs late 80s early 90s GOAT run, I'll take crazy old Flair post 2002 any day of the week.

Also, on the topic of mania 26 Main event, I think that match is superior to the match at Wm25, but having Striker on commentary instead of JR is what makes me prefer 25 a good deal more. Striker was just so horrendous on commentary I can't even begin to explain how bad he was. He makes Booker sound like Heenan by comparison. Just bad bad bad. JR's commentary at WM 25 was just top notch, he truly added a lot to it.

The reason I remember the match at Wm25 more fondly I think is how unprepared I was for how great a match they had. I went in expecting it to he great, I just didn't expect to witness a top 5 match in WWE history and all those mind blowing false finishes. By the time WM26 came around, we were expecting absolute greatness, so it wasn't quite so shocking to see them tear it up like they did. So in short, while I think the actual match at WM26 is better than the match at WM25, I will always remember WM 25 more fondly because of JRs commentary and how shocked/blown away I was when I watched it live.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not that high on Flair/Savage from WM. It's good, but not great. ***1/2 for it, and ***3/4 for Bret/Piper (another match I find to be a tad overrated). Only match I'd point to from Flair's first WWF run is the 92 RR, which I have at the full ***** and was definitely a FLAIR match. After that his run from 02 onwards was definitely far superior.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Natich had a great first run don't get me wrong, the perfect raw match is probably his best back than.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What's HBK/Flair from Bad Blood 2003 like? I've never seen it


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> Natich had a great first run don't grey me wrong, the perfect raw is probably his best back than.


Can I BLUE you wrong? Maybe RED? 



FluxCapacitor said:


> What's HBK/Flair from Bad Blood 2003 like? I've never seen it


Eh, not really much of anything tbh. You ain't missing anything by not watching it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Can I BLUE you wrong? Maybe RED?


:lmao :lmao auto-correct on the iphone changes your words to the craziest things I tell you


@ FLux, yea your not really missing anything with it, wm 24 is a sooooo much better


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Survivor Series 01. Just got done with the tag team cage match. Think there is like, only 2 more matches left and then it's MAIN EVENT time which takes up about an hour with video packages, entrances and the actual match lol. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Watching Survivor Series 01. Just got done with the tag team cage match. Think there is like, only 2 more matches left and then it's MAIN EVENT time which takes up about an hour with video packages, entrances and the actual match lol. :mark:


One of my fave WWF matches, love it :mark:


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*JR and Heyman's commentary just added so much to an already good match.*


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Came across Jericho/Steamboat from Backlash 2009. Match is so fun, and Steamboat at age whatever he was did extremely well. 

Thoughts on that show? Christian/Swagger, Six Man Tag (which I liked), Edge/Cena (which I didn't like), Kane/Punk, Hardy/Hardy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*History Of WWE DVD/BD Update:*

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/history-of-wwe-not-3-hours-shawn-michaels-dvd/52936/



> Disc 1: 2 hours
> 
> Disc 2: 1 hour and 28 minutes
> 
> ...


To couple with the match listing, the phrase 'half assing' it springs to mind.


----------



## Kane-UK (Jun 29, 2009)

Had some free time this afternoon and fancied watching Punk vs Taker again, so decided to stick Wrestlemania 29 on for the first time since it happened. Made some random thoughts & musings along with my star ratings:

*Wrestlemania 29 Review*

- Goddamn, this was a cool looking arena. Up there with WM 24 in my opinion.

*Randy Orton/Sheamus/Big Show vs The Shield - ***1/2*
- Can't go wrong with a Shield match, especially one to open a hot WM crowd.
- Goes probably 2-3 minutes too long and the crowd's energy drops until the finishing stretch
- Bonus points go to Ambrose squaring upto Show after his flak jacket is opened. Does well to highlight how deranged he is.
- Orton looked uncomfortable throughout.
- Holy shit @ Seth's suicide dive! How he wasn't knocked out i don't know...

- Despite my indifference to the match on the night (& even in the rewatch), the video package for Rock vs Cena actually got me interested for a short while.

*Mark Henry vs Ryback - **1/2*
- Decent back & forth hoss fight
- The match was long enough to make it worthwhile, but short enough that neither guy tired out.
- I forgot how over Ryback was. The "feed me more" chants prior to the meathook clothesline & the pop when Ryback lifts Henry onto his shoulders were great. It's a shame what's happened since...
- I like the ending. Felt it made Ryback look strong even in defeat.

- God, I love JBL. Smashing the Mysterio action figure & "I was sick that day" re: WM25

*Team Hell No vs Dolph Ziggler & Big E Langston - ****
- Dolph looked like a million bucks when he was making an entrance. Shame his momentum has been halted recently.
- The callback to WM 28 was fantastic!
- Good to see Dolph & Bryan with a proper Mania match under their belts.
- Crowd still very hot and helped with the overall feel of the match.

*Chris Jericho vs Fandango - *1/2*
- Yeesh, such a wasted opportunity. Fandango hasn't been able to capitalise on beating Jericho clean and Jericho's Mania appearance was wasted this year.
- Could we not have had Jericho vs Cesaro for the US title instead if the WWE wanted him to put over a young talent?
- I miss the Y2J countdown, his face entrance doesn't feel right without it. At least his jacket works this year.
- Can't get into this match at all, the two guys just didn't click.
- A sloppy finish is just the cherry on top.

- Couldn't care less about Diddy's performance.

*Alberto Del Rio vs Jack Swagger - **1/2*
- Still can't understand the reasoning behind forcing Swagger into relevance. Was the whole "tea party" stuff really worth it? I did like the early youtube segments though.
- ... and they cut SWagger's entrance? And a Wrestlemania special entrance at that! SMH...
- Del Rio as a face was pretty cool, but this second heel spell has been brilliant IMO.
- Colter is a great heel & a perfect mouthpiece for Swagger.
- decent enough match & I liked the whole ankle lock vs armbar thing going on.

*Undertaker vs CM Punk - ******
- first time i've seen this match since the night of Mania, can't wait for the re-watch.
- freaking loved the build-up to this match. Heyman as Bearer, Kane going apeshit on Punk, the respect angle, Punk's cockiness, Heyman running with the urn... loved every minute!
- Nice touch with Punk's Taker themed gear.
- Taker's entrance is bone-chilling, just what Mania is all about.
- that slap in the corner has got to be the only way they could've kicked this off. Just summed Punk up perfectly (especially coupled with the urn antics)
- Brilliant, brilliant match. Probably my MOTY, despite the stiff competition this year (FYI, #2 is Punk vs Lesnar, #3 is Punk vs Cena).

*Brock Lesnar vs Triple H - ***1/2*
- Shawn looks ridiculous. Lesnar looks like a beast.
- Enjoyable brawl IMO. Much prefer it to Summerslam, but still have the cage match ahead of it (& the Cena & Punk matches vs Lesnar ahead of them)
- Triple H probably went toe-to-toe a bit too much with Lesnar in this one, but didn't detract too much for me.
- love Heyman getting SCM.
- liked HHH trapping Lesnar in the Kimura as a measure of revenge
- there's practically no-one better at selling a submission than Brock.

*Rock vs Cena - **3/4*
- much prefer the bout from the previous year & I struggled to get invested into it this year.
- definately went on for too long (a complaint I have of last year's match too)
- very slow start, but picks up nicely for the finishing stretch
- best part for me is the call back to WM 28 & Cena playing up the heel traits in the people's elbow bluff.
- gah, forgot how much i disliked the forced rock/hogan-esque ending

*Overall*

- enjoyed this Mania on the rewatch more than watching it on PPV back in April
- 3 good matches in 6-man tag, tag titles & HHH/Lesnar, an enjoyable hoss fight and only one truely poor match along with my personal MOTY in Taker vs Punk made this a good Mania overall and better than a lot of the recent ones (25 & 27 spring to mind).
- I still feel Jericho vs Cesaro (US Title) would've been better than having Fandango on the card, coupled with trimming 7 mins off Rock vs Cena for the IC title bout on the main card, then having Rhodes Scholars vs Tonnes of Funk on the pre-show would've made this an all-time great Mania.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Came across Jericho/Steamboat from Backlash 2009. Match is so fun, and Steamboat at age whatever he was did extremely well.
> 
> Thoughts on that show? Christian/Swagger, Six Man Tag (which I liked), Edge/Cena (which I didn't like), Kane/Punk, Hardy/Hardy.


Backlash '09
Christian/Swagger ****
Jericho/Steamboat ***
Punk/Kane **
Jeff/Matt ***1/2
Legacy/HHH,Shane,Batista ***1/2
Cena/Edge ****

Definitely made up for WM25 and Swagger/Christian had a great series of matches in '09.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Callamus said:


> *Not that high on Flair/Savage from WM. It's good, but not great. ***1/2* for it, and ***3/4 for Bret/Piper (another match I find to be a tad overrated). Only match I'd point to from Flair's first WWF run is the 92 RR, which I have at the full ***** and was definitely a FLAIR match. After that his run from 02 onwards was definitely far superior.


You take that back. Personally I think it's one of, if not, the best Wrestlemania match that doesn't involve the Undertaker (certainly the best that doesn't involve Bret Hart or the Undertaker) ****3/4 for me. I hadn't seen this match in years when I watched Savages DVD and I remember thinking that the match was nearing the finishing stretch about half way through and then being blown away by how amazing it was.

Rumble 92 is pretty amazing though. I don't know if I would say he full 5 but it's between that and 2001 for the best Royal Rumble and I would probably lean towards 92. 



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Came across Jericho/Steamboat from Backlash 2009. Match is so fun, and Steamboat at age whatever he was did extremely well.
> 
> Thoughts on that show? Christian/Swagger, Six Man Tag (which I liked), Edge/Cena (which I didn't like), Kane/Punk, Hardy/Hardy.


I love the show. Hardy/Hardy wasn't that great but everything else form the how delivered. I loved the 6-man tag, Christian/Swagger is obviously good, and I thought Edge and Cena had their best match together there.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Old man flair is just :mark: , I miss the 92 hair, mr perfect and heenan though
> 
> Going to make two claims, I have watched enough too back it up
> *
> ...


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Came across Jericho/Steamboat from Backlash 2009. Match is so fun, and Steamboat at age whatever he was did extremely well.
> 
> Thoughts on that show? Christian/Swagger, Six Man Tag (which I liked), Edge/Cena (which I didn't like), Kane/Punk, Hardy/Hardy.


One of my favourite PPVs of the last 5 years. Punk/Kane was the only match not worthwhile and even that wasn't bad. Also had the Khali/Santina skit which was utterly awful bar JR getting pissed off at his involvement :lmao

Ratings would be fairly similar to bme's.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Came across Jericho/Steamboat from Backlash 2009. Match is so fun, and Steamboat at age whatever he was did extremely well.
> 
> Thoughts on that show? Christian/Swagger, Six Man Tag (which I liked), Edge/Cena (which I didn't like), Kane/Punk, Hardy/Hardy.


*I thought it was a solid PPV. 

-Edge and Cena ****
-Legacy vs. HHH-Shane-Tista **
-I Quit **2/3 :lmao at Matt begging.
-Punk-Kane **
-Jericho-Steamboat ***
-Swagger/Christian- ***3/4

Of course, since it came after WM 25...it's definitely a good show in comparison. *


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I HATE that Hardy I Quit Match so much, I am so disappointed everytime I try and watch that match :no:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Screw their I Quit match. Their STRETCHER MATCH on Smackdown is where it's at! And their WM match is pretty good too. Hell WM 25 in general is underrated to absolute FUCK because the main event stinks more than me after not showering for a week.

I'M DEPRESSED DAMMIT.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I remember hating WM 25 for the longest time until I watched it a few times and WM 27 happened.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I HATE that Hardy I Quit Match so much, I am so disappointed everytime I try and watch that match :no:



*I still laugh everytime I hear Matt say “Daddy wouldn’t like it you did this”. *


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My backlash 09 review is in the link in my sig. There's only 2 posts on there so it shouldn't be hard to find :lol.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

rjsbx1 said:


> *I still laugh everytime I hear Matt say “Daddy wouldn’t like it you did this”. *


I never hear that part because I skip it everytime, this is a match I never wanna watch again.

Just like I never wanna watch Dolph/Orton from NOC 2012 my god is that match awful!


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> I never hear that part because I skip it everytime, this is a match I never wanna watch again.
> 
> Just like I never wanna watch Dolph/Orton from NOC 2012 my god is that match awful!


*Hm. I don't remember that match. 

I know they had a good Smackdown match (during Ziggler's Cena feud) and a good 2010 match. I always thought their series' together were pretty quality. *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*WWF Survivor Series 2001*

I began my 2001 Ramblings with THE INVASION PPV. So I'm ending with the END of The Invasion!

Video package at the start of the show is amazing. Yet another (of the MANY) example of WWF/E being masters of video packages.


*Christian Vs Al Snow - WWF European Championship Match*

So this is the FINAL WWF Vs Alliance PPV. Quite possibly the biggest event kayfabe wise in history. And Christian Vs Al Snow is on it? THE FUCK, MAN?

"WE WANT HEAD"

Did these 2 even care? Because fuck me this is just two guys going through the motions to fill time. There is a bit where Christian has Al down and starts talking trash to him, and you can see him purposely moving into position so Al can small package him. Made me shake my head...

Snow Plow looked brutal at least. Christian still wins.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Austin shows up and THE ALLIANCE want to know if he's turning on them because he smiled at Vince on SD.

SHIT HAPPENS. Vince continues to tease that one of the Alliance team members is gonna turn on them and join the WWF. WILLIAM REGAL shows up to say he doesn't believe Vince.


*William Regal Vs Tajiri*

Actually watched this recently so I'm :mark: right now because I KNOW this is fecking great!

Regal BLOCKS some big kicks from Tajiri, and smashes his elbow right into his face only to still take a KICK TO THE HEAD :mark:.

KNEE TREMBLER :mark:.

KICKS~!

ELBOWS~!

STIFFNESS~!

Oh man! Tajiri gets caught up in the ropes by his NECK, so Regal goes outside and pulls on his legs! What a RUTHLESS BASTARD!!!

Regal's nose is bleeding. As usual when he's against anyone STIFF lol. He's the Master Roshi of the WWF... except KICKS make his nose spurt rather than beautiful women.

DOUBLE ARM POWERBOMB~! And Regal gets the win. He gives Tajiri another just BECAUSE.

TORRIE FAP FAP FAP. Regal decides to give her one too. A POWERBOMB YOU SICK FUCKS.

Short and absolutely SWEET. :mark:

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Edge Vs Test - WWF Intercontinental Championship & WCW United States Championship Unification Match*

The IC and US titles are gonna be unified here tonight, and the winner will be SAFE regardless of the outcome of the main event. But if the WWF wins, the IC title remains. If the Alliance wins, the US title remains. BUT WHO WILL BE CHAMP?

WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOOT?

Solid stuff here! Shouldn't be THAT surprised I guess because while Test doesn't have a catalogue of epic matches, he isn't a guy I'd say ever flat out SUCKED, and Edge, while never the best wrestler or anything did have a pretty good run in late 01/early 03.

Pretty great battle for control on the top rope at one point :mark:. 

Oh shit, SPEAR BY TEST. And it looked awesome! Fuck Edge doing the Spear, give it to Test!

:lmao oh god the kick out from Edge after a big pumphandle slam look so lethargic. Was supposed to be a big near fall and all, and the fans DID pop for it and shit, but damn, Edge looked like he couldn't give a fuck :lmao.

Match has a really good finishing stretch, that I guess you can say started with the battle on the top rope. Some cool sequences, counters, big moves and kick outs, and then Edge pulls out a surprise win with a roll up. I liked this.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


STEPHANIE FAP FAP FAP.

LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP. LITA is concerned about Matt, and tonight in general. Matt comes out of the locker room and convinces them everything is cool. LITA seems satisfied and is about to go into the locker room, only to be met by TRISH (FAP FAP FAP) who seems a little flustered... yeah that whole angle was dropped fairly quickly lol.


*The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys - WWF & WCW Tag Team Championship Unification Cage Match*

They stick to a basic tag match in the early going, which I kinda like, even for a cage match. Then it all goes to hell (in a good way) as both Hardy's try to escape and we get a couple of big spots off the cage and from there it's 2 on 2 and nobody gives a fuck about tags!

Damn, Bubba takes the biggest Flair Bump off the ropes ever. He fucking throws himself as high as possible and as far as possible lol.

Matt nearly gets pushed through the side of the cage when Bubba runs at him full speed.

Cool spot with Matt hanging upside down from the cage by his leg thanks to D-Von, who then follows up with a head butt to Jeff's balls.

STACY, GET THE TABLES~!

But this is a CAGE match, right? How they gonna get a table in there? Simple. Stacy shows her ass (FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP) and Nick Patrick is in a sexual trance allowing Stacy to steal the key :lmao. A table is in, but The Hardy Boys manage to avoid it! Matt escapes... but this leaves Jeff alone!

Jeff manages to climb the cage, but D-Von has randomly (and I swear the way he does it is hilariously retarded) put himself on the table, and Jeff can't resist diving off the cage! D-Von moves, Jeff crashes through the table and The Dudley Boys unify the tag belts!

Not the greatest match between these 2 teams, nor the best tag cage match you are gonna see, but it was solid overall. Finish was done to create the Matt Vs Jeff angle, and made Jeff look like a retard so I liked it . Shame the actual angle didn't go anywhere lol.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


SCOTTY 2 HOTTY~! Test jumps him to take his battle royal spot. Because... you know... that's how it works. I can understand someone getting beat up and having their NUMBER stolen, but this is just RANDOM lol.


*Lance Storm Vs Justin Credible Vs DDP Vs Raven Vs Steven Richards Vs Billy Kidman Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs The Hurricane Vs Shawn Stasiak Vs Test Vs Bradshawn Vs Farooq Vs Crash Holly Vs Funaki Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Albert Vs Billy Gunn Vs Chuck Palumbo Vs Spike Dudley Vs Perry Saturn Vs Tazz Vs Chavoe Guerrero Jr Vs Hugh Morris - Immunity Invitation Battle Royal*

Ok, so this in an INVITATIONAL match. So why did Test even need to attack Scotty? Hell, TAZZ only shows up after the match has started lol.

Huh, Palumbo was a WWF guy already? He and Billy are dressed alike so it seems their tag team has already started. Honestly don't remember it being this early on lol.

DDP... he went from main eventing THE INVASION PPV as part of Team Alliance... to being in a battle royal at the end of the Invasion angle.

:lmao DDP is one of the earliest eliminations... then Palumbo gets thrown out and accidentally kicks the fuck out of DDP's head .

Chavo Jr and Hugh Morris show up. Guess they are in the match? *edits match title* LOL they got eliminated before I could even add their names to the match :lmao.

:lmao Tazz calls Heyman a fat bastard and ends up getting eliminated from behind. Heyman bursts out laughing then shits himself when Tazz goes for him .

Epic elimination of Kidman. Bradshaw Fall Away Slams him over the ropes... but unlike the Vader/2 Cold version from the 1997 RR (yeah I remember this shit lol)... Bradshaw was about 2 fecking feet away from the ropes when he did it!!!

Final 2 are TEST and... Billy Gunn :lmao. Boot to the face and Gunn is dunn. TEST wins immunity for the next year.

Fun enough.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Trish Stratus Vs Lita Vs Jacqueline Vs Mighty Molly Vs Ivory Vs Jazz - WWF Women's Championship Match*

Women's title is back after Chyna buggered off with it lol. Jazz makes her debut. NOBODY KNOWS HER OR CARE :lmao.

Jazz starts the match by beating up LITA. I hate her already.

MOLLY GO ROUND~! Poor (or lucky lol) Jacqueline gets a face full of MOLLY VAG~!

Crazy that they could do a 6 pack challenge with DIVAS and all of them could like, actually go in the ring... well Trish was green as hell still at this point but not half bad.

TRISH WINS.

Short and... fapable I guess? Aside from Jazz who looks like a man. She's replaced Chyna.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*The Undertaker, Kane, The Big Show, Chris Jericho & The Rock Vs Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Shane McMahon, Booker T & RVD - Winner Take All Survivor Series Elimination Match*

This is IT. 5 months of THE INVASION have all led to this. The surviving team not only gets bragging rights, but will determine which company stays in business and which dies forever (except for ECW that comes back for a while lol).

The whole match takes up over ONE HOUR of the PPV time lol. That's video package, entrances and then the actual match. And you know what? I don't care. It's all done so well. Say what you want about the Invasion Angle, but they DID get some shit right. This match is one of them.

JR to Heyman: "JIM CORNETTE CAN REPLACE YOU TOMORROW, PAL!" :mark:.

Instead we got Lawler .

Rock and Austin start things off. Whatever. Go away already, Rock.

HUGE pop for RVD.

So Vince was supposed to be in this match along with Shane, but Big Show ended up taking Vince's spot. Anyone else think this could have been so much more awesome if VINCE was in it? Having him interact with Austin? How :mark: could that have been?

Team WWF dominates early on, with everyone getting a turn at coming in and showing up THE ALLIANCE. Shane O'Mac keeps running into the ring and breaking up pin attempts like an annoying little fucker. Just gonna make his eventual elimination that much sweeter :mark:.

BIG SHOW comes in and just rips into everyone, until he ends up taking a finisher from everyone bar Austin and Shane McMahon pins him!!!

Shane is all happy because he eliminated the giant from this match... and ends up getting a face full of ROCK PUNCHES.

And now it's time for SHANE to take everyone's finisher and he is eliminated too! Awesome to see Undertaker bring out the TOMBSTONE for this occasion too.

BODY SLAM~! BODY SLAM~! BODY SLAM~! HOW TALENTED IS BOOKER T?!?!

Big brawl erupts. RVD eliminates KANE! With a kick to the face. Off the ropes.

LAST RIDE TO ANGLE~! STUNNER TO UNDERTAKER! Austin pulls Angle over Undertaker... and the DEAD MAN is done . That leaves us with Rock & Jericho for Team WWF. BOOOO. Undertaker means more to that company than either of them.

Booker T loses to a roll up. LOL.

:lmao to set up the roll up, Rock sends Booker right into Angle and knocks him off the apron, and RVD just kinda looks down at Angle like "the fuck you doing?" :lmao.

:lmao Jericho eliminates RVD with THE BREAKDOWN but despite using it to beat The Rock for the WCW title at No Mercy, the move still hasn't been established yet and NOBODY reacts to it... making RVD's elimination seem totally random. Even BILLY KIDMAN can't believe it ended there!!!










.

Down to Angle & Austin Vs Jericho & Rock. Angle & Austin battled like crazy just a couple of months ago over the WWF title, and Rock and Jericho have recently been battling over the WCW title. So an interesting choice for the final men on each team. PLUS just a week or so ago in England for Rebellion, Angle and Jericho had a match together and Rock and Austin fought as well!

:lmao Angle, an OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALLIST IN WRESTLING just lost to a Sharpshooter... from THE ROCK :lmao. Lowest point in his career .

Austin is now fighting for THE ALLIANCE by himself! An odd position to put the heel into for a match of this importance but whatever.

Jericho is eliminated! He's so fucked off he... HIS ROCK WITH THE BREAKDOWN! The WWF Locker room is SHOCKED, and UNDERTAKER shows up to make sure Jericho doesn't do anything else.

Rock and Austin are the final 2 now, and I guess it's kind of fitting. This whole thing kinda started at WM when Austin turned heel to beat Rock for the WWF Title, and from the heel turn Austin then turned on the WWF and tried to put it out of business. So ending with those same 2 guys IS kinda cool. Sorta. Fuck you Rock.

Heyman: "WHY ISN'T HEBNER CALLING FOR THE BELL?"

JR: "BECAUSE ROCK ISN'T TAPPING!!!"

Heyman: "WELL THAT NEVER STOPPED HIM BEFORE AT SURVIVOR SERIES!"

:lmao

Oh god another Sharpshooter by Rock. I think Rock Vs Miz in a submission match might very well be the WORST MATCH EVER on paper.

STUNNER BY THE ROCK~!

NICK PATRICK~! HE BREAKS UP A PIN AND TAKES OUT HEBNER!!!

ROCK BOTTOM BY AUSTIN~!

Rock kicks out, so Austin attacks Nick for not counting to 3!!! Then he brings in Hebner because, I dunno, he thinks a WWF referee is gonna do a better job... nope. Hebner gets taken out within seconds .

STUNNER! THE ROCK IS DONE FOR! YES! But there is no referee!

KURT ANGLE! HE GRABS THE WWF TITLE... AND CRACKS AUSTIN IN THE FACE!!! ROCK BOTTOM! THE 3! WWF HAS WON IT! THE ALLIANCE IS DEAD! ANGLE SCREWED THE ALLIANCE!!!

:mark: This is a rather awesome tag match. Tons of fun and some great shit throughout. Probably the best Survivor Series Elimination match, though that huge 16 man one from either 88 or 89 could challenge it.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 13.5*​


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just got home from work, about to watch hhh/flair cage and see how it stands


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Hm. I don't remember that match.
> 
> I know they had a good Smackdown match (during Ziggler's Cena feud) and a good 2010 match. I always thought their series' together were pretty quality. *


There is a reason you don't recall it, no one brings it up up unless they wanna shit on the match 

Plus that NOC has Cena/Punk & Ceasaro/Ryder, so there really is no reason to talk about it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So today was absolutely sucking, I had a shit ton of work to do and my boss was acting like a total prick. But then, I get in my car to go home and turn on the local sports radio station to laugh at the depressed Redskins fans in the area. As soon as I turn it on, I hear the theme from "The real Americans" playing, and he Dj Chad Dukes says the first caller to call in and name all the members of this stable will win front row tickets to Smackdown in DC! I call in and rattle off Zeb coulter, Jack swagger, and antonio Cesaro like a boss and I won! Fuck that's a great way to end a horrid day :mark: I haven't even checked for when Smackdown is in DC next, but I'm pumped.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

See being a wrestling fan always pays off in the end


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> So today was absolutely sucking, I had a shit ton of work to do and my boss was acting like a total prick. But then, I get in my car to go home and turn on the local sports radio station to laugh at the depressed Redskins fans in the area. As soon as I turn it on, I hear the theme from "The real Americans" playing, and he Dj Chad Dukes says the first caller to call in and name all the members of this stable will win front row tickets to Smackdown in DC! I call in and rattle off Zeb coulter, Jack swagger, and antonio Cesaro like a boss and I won! Fuck that's a great way to end a horrid day :mark: I haven't even checked for when Smackdown is in DC next, but I'm pumped.


*Congrats, man! Zeb would be proud. *


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I stopped reading after "depressed Redskins fans"



















 nice job on the call


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> I stopped reading after "depressed Redskins fans"
> 
> 
> 
> ...







If you guys are depressed, us giants fans are downright suicidal. I know we have no right to be after 2 Super Bowls in 5 years but man, does losing ever suck. This is giving me horrid flashbacks to the late 90s early 00's when the lone bright spot on our team was us having the 1 white corner back in the league (Jason Sehorn) and he was actually really good, then he tore his acl and was never the same. Hard times my man.

I'm watching that Flair-Trips LMS match you reccomended right now, then I'm watching the cage match immediately after to see which is better.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'd probably have Flair/Savage in top 20 WWE matches ever. Next best Flair WWE matches would be the HHH cage and if you want to count tags then there's probably three 04 tags to fill a top 5. Been way too long since I saw the HHH LMS and it's not something I can say for sure I like (which I can with the cage). I'm trying to remember notable Flair matches from 91-93. The Hennig LLT was good but I didn't love it. I do recall a super Flair/Piper match. 

I remember thinking Ziggler/Orton from NOC kind of stunk and was a random bunch of nothing. Hated it.

I could actually see someone taking HHH's 2005 over his 2000. I thought Helmsley kind of stunk too much in the first few months of 2004, though. Like, even in the WrestleMania three-way, which is a good match, he was kind of shitty. If that match didn't have Benoit it would probably be next to the second-bottom level HHH/Michaels shitfests. The part where they're alone in the ring without Benoit to carry things blows.


NOTES!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'd probably have Flair/Savage in top 20 WWE matches ever. Next best Flair WWE matches would be the HHH cage and if you want to count tags then there's probably three 04 tags to fill a top 5. Been way too long since I saw the HHH LMS and it's not something I can say for sure I like (which I can with the cage). I'm trying to remember notable Flair matches from 91-93. The Hennig LLT was good but I didn't love it. I do recall a super Flair/Piper match.
> 
> I remember thinking Ziggler/Orton from NOC kind of stunk and was a random bunch of nothing. Hated it.
> 
> ...


Gonna watch savage/flair tonite, Im almost done with flair/hhh cage atm, very good but I'll still take LMS over it. Yea I wasnt even thinking of evolution tags I loved the hbk/benoit/shelton/foley vs.evolution one is high up there

I'm happy someone saw that post, I truly do believe hhh late 04/2005>>>>>00 his work with benoit flair, evolution etc is much better than anything in 00 outside of the foley series IMO


@ Cactus I hear you man ppl up here are so depressed about the Giants it isnt even funny, and the jets fan only rub it in their faces


Edit: Flair does have some gems from his 91-93 run I'm very high on the perfect match, and many others


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, that's all the 2001 PPV's finished! 

Matches from worst to best:



Spoiler: LIST



Ivory Vs Chyna - NO - -1 (WrestleMania 17)
Trish Stratus Vs Jacqueline - NO - -1 (Vengeance)
Chyna Vs Ivory - DUD - 0 (Royal Rumble)
Steven Richards Vs Jerry Lawler - DUD - 0 (No Way Out)
Rob Van Dam Vs Jeff Hardy - DUD - 0 (SummerSlam)
Christian Vs Edge - 1/4* - 0 (No Mercy)
Booker T Vs The Rock - 1/4* - 0 (SummerSlam)
Christian Vs Al Snow - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Earl Hebner Vs Nick Patrick - 1/4* - 0 (Invasion)
Scotty 2 Hotty Vs The Hurricane - 1/4* - 0 (Rebellion)
Matt Hardy Vs Jeff Hardy - 1/4* - 0 (Vengeance)
The Hardy Boys Vs Lance Storm & The Hurricane - 1/2* - 0 (No Mercy)
Perry Saturn Vs Raven - 1/2* - 0 (Unforgiven)
Edge Vs Christian - 1/2* - 0 (Unforgiven)
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Kronik - 1/2* - 0 (Unforgiven)
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - 1/2* - 0 (Vengeance)
Steve Austin Vs The Rock - 1/2* - 0 (Rebellion)
Kurt Angle Vs The Rock - 1/2* - 0 (No Way Out)
Raven Vs William Regal - 3/4* - 0 (Invasion)
Trish Stratus Vs Lita Vs Jacqueline Vs Mighty Molly Vs Ivory Vs Jazz - * - 0 (Survivor Series)
Torrie Wilson Vs Stacy Keibler - * - 0 (No Mercy)
The Big Show, Billy Gunn & Albert Vs Hugh Morris, Kanyon & Shawn StasiaK - * - 0 (Invasion)
Grand Master Sexay Vs Eddie Guerrero - * - 0 (Insurrextion)
Chris Jericho Vs William Regal - * - 0 (Insurrextion)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - * - 0 (Judgment Day)
The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin & Triple H - * - 0 (Insurrextion)
Christian Vs Edge - * - 0 (Rebellion)
Gimmick Battle Royal - * - 0 (WrestleMania 17)
Sean O'Haire & Chuck Palumbo Vs The APA - * - 0 (Invasion)
William Regal Vs Rikishi - * - 0 (Judgment Day)
Steve Austin Vs Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - * - 0 (King of the Ring)
Scotty 2 Hott & Albert Vs Test & Christian - *1/4 - 0.5 (Vengeance)
The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - *1/4 - 0.5 (Vengeance)
Lita & Torrie Wilson Vs Stacy Keibler & Might Molly - *1/2 - 0.5 (Rebellion)
APA & Tazz Vs Right to Censor - *3/4 - 0.5 (WrestleMania 17)
The Dudley Boys Vs X-Factor - ** - 0/5 (Backlash)
The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian Vs The Undertaker & Kane - ** - 0.5 (No Way Out)
Perry Staturn, Dean Malenko & Terri Vs Crash, Hardcore & Molly Holly - ** - 0.5 (Insurrextion)
Lance Storm Vs Justin Credible Vs DDP Vs Raven Vs Steven Richards Vs Billy Kidman Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs The Hurricane Vs Shawn Stasiak Vs Test Vs Bradshawn Vs Farooq Vs Crash Holly Vs Funaki Vs Hardcore Holly Vs Albert Vs Billy Gunn Vs Chuck Palumbo Vs Spike Dudley Vs Perry Saturn Vs Tazz Vs Chavoe Guerrero Jr Vs Hugh Morris - ** - 0.5 (Survivor Series)
Lita & Trish Stratus Vs Stacy Keibler & Torrie Wilson - ** - 0.5 (Invasion)
The Hardy Boys Vs The Hurricane & Lance Storm Vs Spike Dudley & The Big Show Vs The Dudley Boys - ** - 0.5 (Unforgiven)
The Rock Vs Booker T & Shane McMahon - ** - 0.5 (Unforgiven)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Test - ** - 0.5 (WrestleMania 17)
Lance Storm & Mike Awesome Vs Edge & Christian - ** - 0.5 (Invasion)
Jeff Hardy Vs X-Pac - ** - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
Kurt Angle Vs Christian - ** - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
The Dudley Boys Vs The Big Show & Tajiri - ** - 0.5 (No Mercy)
The Undertaker Vs DDP - ** - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
The Dudley Boys Vs Spike & Kane - ** - 0.5 (King of the Ring)
DDP Vs The Big Show - ** - 0.5 (Rebellion)
William Regal Vs Chris Jericho - **1/4 - 1 (Backlash)
Steve Austin Vs Chris Jericho - **1/4 - 1 (Vengeance)
Lance Storm Vs Edge - **1/2 - 1 (SummerSlam)
Tajri Vs Tazz - **1/2 - 1 (Invasion)
Shane McMahon Vs The Big Show - **1/4 - 1 (Backlash)
Test Vs Rhyno Vs The Big Show - **1/2 - 1 (Judgment Day)
Raven Vs The Big Show - **1/2 - 1 (No Way Out)
Chyna Vs Lita - **1/2 - 1 (Judgment Day)
Matt Hardy Vs Christian Vs Eddie Guerrero - **1/2 - 1 (Backlash)
Kurt Angle Vs Edge - **1/2 - 1 (King of the Ring)
X-Pac Vs Billy Kidman - **3/4 - 1 (Invasion)
Edge Vs Rhyno - **3/4 - 1 (King of the Ring)
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle Vs RVD - **3/4 - 1 (No Mercy)
Chris Jericho Vs William Regal - **3/4 - 1 (WrestleMania 17)
The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
The Dudley Boys Vs The Big Show & Kane - *** - 2 (Vengeance)
Vince McMahon Vs Shane McMahon - *** - 2 (WrestleMania 17)
The Big Show Vs Bradshaw - *** - 2 (Insurrextion)
Chris Jericho Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit Vs X-Pac - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
Edge Vs Test - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
Triple H Vs Kane - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - *** - 2 (Insurrextion)
Stephanie McMahon Vs Trish Stratus - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
The Undertaker Vs Booker T - *** - 2 (No Mercy)
Test Vs Kane - *** - 2 (No Mercy)
The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The APA - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Rhyno Vs Tajiri - *** - 2 (Unforgiven)
William Regal Vs Tajiri - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Raven Vs The Big Show Vs Kane - *** - 2 (WrestleMania 17)
The Undertaker & Kane Vs DDP & Kanyon - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4 - 2 (WrestleMania 17)
Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Pac & Justin Credible - ***1/4 - 2 (Insurrextion)
The APA & Spike Dudley Vs The Dudley Boys & Test - ***1/4 - 2 (SummerSlam)
Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boys - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
Rhyno Vs Raven - ***1/4 - 2 (Backlash)
Triple H Vs Steve Austin - ***1/4 - 2 (No Way Out)
William Regal Vs Tajiri - ***1/4 - 2 (Survivor Series)
Kurt Angle Vs Triple H - ***1/2 - 3 (Royal Rumble)
RVD Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2 - 3 (Unforgiven)
The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ***1/2 - 3 (WrestleMania 17)
Edge Vs William Regal - ***1/2 - 3 (Vengeance)
Tajiri Vs X-Pac - ***3/4 - 4 (SummerSlam)
Chris Jericho Vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4 - 4 (Rebellion)
The Undertaker Vs RVD - ***3/4 - 4 (Vengeance)
Jeff Hardy Vs RVD - ***3/4 - 4 (Invasion)
The Undertaker, Kane, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle & Chris Jericho Vs DDP, Rhyno, The Dudley Boys & Booker T - ***3/4 - 4 (Invasion)
The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - **** - 5 (No Mercy)
Chris Jericho Vs Rhyno - **** - 5 (SummerSlam)
APA Vs Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Factor Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit Vs Edge & Christian - **** - 5 (Judgment Day)
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania 17)
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4 - 6 (Unforgiven)
Steve Austin Vs The Undertaker - ****1/4 - 6 (Judgment Day)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 - 7 (Royal Rumble)
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania 17)
The Undertaker, Kane, The Big Show, Chris Jericho & The Rock Vs Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Shane McMahon, Booker T & RVD - ****1/2 - 7 (Survivor Series)
Kurt Angle Vs Shane McMahon - ****1/2 - 7 (King of the Ring)
Steve Austin & Triple H Vs The Undertaker & Kane - ****1/2 - 7 (Backlash)
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - ****3/4 - 8 (Backlash)
Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - ****3/4 - 8 (Royal Rumble)
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - ***** - 9 (SummerSlam)



And events from best to worst:



Spoiler: ANOTHER LIST



SummerSlam - 23
WrestleMania X7 - 23
Backlash - 20.5
Royal Rumble - 20
Judgment Day - 15
Survivor Series - 13.5
Unforgiven - 12
Invasion - 11
King of the Ring - 11
No Mercy - 10.5
Vengeance - 10
Rebellion - 9
No Way Out - 7.5
Insurrextion - 6.5

Total - 192.5



Comparing 2000 Vs 2001:










Yeah 2001 kinda wins overall .

Wrestler of the Year (keep in mind this is JUST based on PPV stuff) - Steve Austin. Guy dominated most of the top 10 matches, with Angle a close second. Another honourable mention to THOSE DAMN DUDLEYS for being ever so consistent throughout the year on PPV too. Austin had a couple of stinkers, while the Dudleys were pretty much always good, never really dropping in "bad" territory. They really killed it on PPV for 2 years in a row and deserve some PRAISE~!

And all the PPV's I've rated on the CAL SCALE in order from worst to best:



Spoiler: ANOTHER FECKING LIST YA CUNTS



WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
WrestleMania IV - 1
WrestleMania XV - 2
2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
WrestleMania V - 2
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5
2013 Royal Rumble - 3.5
1993 Royal Rumble - 4
Armageddon 2000 - 4
WrestleMania VI - 4.5
WrestleMania 1 - 4.5
2011 Royal Rumble - 4.5
1997 Royal Rumble - 5
WrestleMania IX - 5
1988 Royal Rumble - 5.5
WrestleMania XI - 6
Survivor Series 2000 - 6
WrestleMania III - 6.5
Insurrextion 2001 - 6.5
WrestleMania XIV - 7
1989 Royal Rumble - 7
No Mercy 2000 - 7
WrestleMania XII - 7.5
2003 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1994 Royal Rumble - 7.5
Insurrextion 2000 - 7.5
No Way Out 2001 - 7.5
2004 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1990 Royal Rumble - 8
WrestleMania VIII - 8.5
2008 Royal Rumble - 9
Rebellion 2000 - 9
Rebellion 2001 - 9
1998 Royal Rumble - 9.5
WrestleMania 2000 - 10
Vengeance 2001 - 10
No Mercy 2001 - 10.5
King of the Ring 2001 - 11
Invasion 2001 - 11
1991 Royal Rumble - 11.5
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
WrestleMania X - 11.5
WrestleMania 27 - 12
Unforgiven 2001 - 12
2007 Royal Rumble - 12
1996 Royal Rumble - 13
WrestleMania XX - 12.5
SummerSlam 2000 - 13
WrestleMania 29 - 13.5
WrestleMania VII - 13.5
Survivor Series 2001 - 13.5
No Way Out 2000 - 13.5
1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5
King of the Ring 2000 - 14.5
WrestleMania X8 - 14.5
WrestleMania 13 - 14.5
Unforgiven 2000 - 15
Judgment Day 2001 - 15
2009 Royal Rumble - 15
WrestleMania 26 - 15.5
1995 Royal Rumble - 15.5
WrestleMania 28 - 16
2005 Royal Rumble - 17
2000 Royal Rumble - 17
Judgement Day 2000 - 17
2002 Royal Rumble - 17.5
WrestleMania 24 - 18
No Mercy 2008 - 19
WrestleMania 21 - 19
WrestleMania 25 - 20
2001 Royal Rumble - 20
WrestleMania 22 - 20.5
Backlash 2001 - 20.5
Fully Loaded 2000 - 20.5
WrestleMania X7 - 23
SummerSlam 2001 - 23
Backlash 2000 - 25
WrestleMania XIX - 29.5


----------



## haribo (Feb 4, 2005)

Honestly nearly had a heart attack and thought you had XXIX at the top there.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal you don't have Summerslam 2002 in your top 20? The fuck? I don't even see it on the list, but I did see 2000 and it's definitely before any mention of 2002. I love your reviews man and generally I agree with 85% of it! but that's crazy sir.


Flair vs Trip LMS is absolute madness. Love it. Hunter just beats the ever loving shit out of Flair for the first 10-12 minutes, but Flair manages to gain the advantage by grabbing a handful of the Levesque family jewels. Instead of working a limb over, Flair then spends the next 5 minutes or so working over Hunters left testicle :lmao. The match slows down a bit, and it annoys me how obviously set up the drop toe hold into the steps was, but that's a small gripe I suppose for such a great match. They could have chopped about 5-7 minutes out of this and I'd probably rank it a 1/2 star higher, but as it is it's still amazing. 3 pedigrees in a row followed by a shot from the sledge is what it takes to finally put Flair down, and he's just a bloody battered mess at that point.

****


Flair is on a list, and that list only contains 2 other wrestlers. The list is of wrestlers who were GOAT level workers as both a face and a heel in the ring. This doesn't mean a wrestler who had good runs as both a face and a heel, I'm talking about guys who put on ALL TIME great level performances consistently as both a face and a heel in the ring. I believe Flair reaches that standard. The other wrestlers on that list are Jerry Lawler and Eddie Guerrero. There really isn't anyone else. I've thought lo and hard about it. I'd love for someone to point out another guy who would be eligible. Maybe Terry Funk.


Cage match is up next, if I remember it as well as I think I do, I'm pretty sure the cage was better but we shall see!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That list only includes shows I've reviewed using THE CAL SCALE. Which is all the WM and RR shows, NM 08 and the 00 and 01 PPV's. Hence no SS 2002!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> That list only includes shows I've reviewed using THE CAL SCALE. Which is all the WM and RR shows, NM 08 and the 00 and 01 PPV's. Hence no SS 2002!


Ahh gotcha. Sorry mate. Are you doing 2002 next?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Flair vs Trip LMS is absolute madness. Love it. Hunter just beats the ever loving shit out of Flair for the first 10-12 minutes, but Flair manages to gain the advantage by grabbing a handful of the Levesque family jewels. Instead of working a limb over, Flair then spends the next 5 minutes or so working over Hunters left testicle :lmao. The match slows down a bit, and it annoys me how obviously set up the drop toe hold into the steps was, but that's a small gripe I suppose for such a great match. They could have chopped about 5-7 minutes out of this and I'd probably rank it a 1/2 star higher, but as it is it's still amazing. 3 pedigrees in a row followed by a shot from the sledge is what it takes to finally put Flair down, and he's just a bloody battered mess at that point.
> 
> ****
> 
> ...


glad you liked it, your probably in the camp that prefers the cage over it which is understandable. I personally think LMS is better

I was just about to bring up the bolded part as I just finished the cage match also, Flair's work in these is phenomenal. Him working from behind, and him screaming as if he is in the worst pain imaginable is very convincing. Yea the guy just got "it" in ring. Only person I think is above him in-ring in hbk and he personally will say that as well


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> There really isn't anyone else. I've thought lo and hard about it. I'd love for someone to point out another guy who would be eligible. Maybe Terry Funk.


Terry Funk and Jerry Lawler. Welllllll, I guess there really isn't any Lawler stuff that's all-time-great where's he's a heel. But goddamn it feels so wrong to leave him out of a talk like this.

Terry Funk is a 1000% 'absolutely'. Better babyface performances than Flair for sure. Hell, All Japan tag team Terry Funk might be the best babyface of all time. Heel Terry Funk might be the best heel of all time. Terry Funk is definitely an arguable greatest of all time. IN CASE NOBODY GOT WHAT I WAS DRIVING AT.


I'd say Barry Windham is the next shout.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Terry Funk and Jerry Lawler. Welllllll, I guess there really isn't any Lawler stuff that's all-time-great where's he's a heel. But goddamn it feels so wrong to leave him out of a talk like this.
> 
> Terry Funk is a 1000% 'absolutely'. Better babyface performances than Flair for sure. Hell, All Japan tag team Terry Funk might be the best babyface of all time. Heel Terry Funk might be the best heel of all time. Terry Funk is definitely an arguable greatest of all time. IN CASE NOBODY GOT WHAT I WAS DRIVING AT.
> 
> ...


Lmao did you see my edit? Check the time I swear I did it before you posted this, I went back and added Lawler + Funk because I couldn't leave them out. But the point is the same, only the elite of the elite can deliver all time great work as a face or heel. 

Windham is a good one, I'd need to see more heel stuff from him though to have a good opinion on the matter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Welp, with my 00 and 01 PPV rambles done, I think I'm gonna get back to my ECW 2009 Project. Already into the middle of July so not that big of a task to finish off .


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)




----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, wouldn't mind seeing them go at it for 20 minutes sometime in the near future.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Well I officially think the cage match is superior to the LMS. Absolutely friggin great, aside from Flair-Savage WM 8, and RR 1992 if you wanna count it, I can't think of a better Flair match in the WWE. It's just that damn good. The intensity those two had, and Flairs selling (" my god, my leg! You mother fucker, you stupid mother fucker! My leg! Agggfhhhhndjsjsj") put this match over the top, I know this might seem blasphemous to some, but in a lot of ways this reminded me of the all time great Cage match, the notorious I Quit match at Starrcade between Magnum and Tully. You could definitely see some similarities, in that neither guy, except for Flair once or so, was trying to escape. They were just hell bent on destruction and were willing to get it done in any way possible. It pains me to say this, but Hunter was truly brilliant here, almost as good as Flair. 

****1/2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cage match is an instant classic. I was there live and the atmosphere for that was pretty great. I like the LMS for its sheer brutality, but the cage match was off the charts. LMS is probably **** or so, but the cage match is better.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> *I actually just listened to Flair's 2013 shoot*, and he prefers the svs match as opposed to the cage.
> 
> 
> ^^ I saw 2011 ec tag a day ago, real fun


You have a link to that by any chance? I'd appreciate it.

Thanks!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I'm pretty lazy right now so I dont want to write a full review

HHH vs. Flair Taboo Tuesday

- This one is very good also ( I watched the LMS yesterday and LOVED it) but its not as good as the LMS to me, as there are parts it just slows down too much in different spades. Flair is tremendous working from behind, the screaming and the look on his face just sell the beating so well. Its so funny that HHH uses so many of flair's moves himself, its like they were trading them in different portions from the running knee to figure four lock. Flair screaming " you motherfucker" is just :mark:. Happy he won this one

****


Edit ^^ some guy in the mutimedia section posted it a month ago and I watched it as soon as he did


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Flair grabbing Trips' nut sack is so :lmao


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE GAME.

Hate that people give Trips so much shit when the guy clearly knows what he's doing. A great performer, especially as a heel. His 2005 was pretty great - it's a shame he missed about a quarter of it, though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

2005 as a whole is a GREAT year

It's basically 2013 on steroids. Quality matches AND awesome feuds with a STACKED roster :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So was his 2006 until the face turn. NYR match with Big Show, his Rumble match, triple threat with RVD/Show on Raw, WM with Cena. I also enjoyed the Backlash triple threat. 

King of curious though: If they hadn't reformed DX, and Vince had used Trips as his henchman against HBK. Sure most people don't care for the HBK/Trips matches, but it's something to think about.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, I forgot about some of those 06 gems before the face turn. That match against Show is great, and I may be in the minority but I love the WM match against Cena (barring the finish ). The Backlash triple threat was super fun. Is the Raw triple threat against Show and RVD the one that decided he'd face Cena at Mania? Don't recall that match other than the outcome. Tweener HHH was pretty fun in the early part of 2006.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cactus Jack said:


> Lmao did you see my edit? Check the time I swear I did it before you posted this, I went back and added Lawler + Funk because I couldn't leave them out. But the point is the same, only the elite of the elite can deliver all time great work as a face or heel.
> 
> Windham is a good one, I'd need to see more heel stuff from him though to have a good opinion on the matter.


I didn't see either mentioned, but I'm looking now at my post and I see Terry Funk's name in the actual quote. :lmao I have an all-time great attention to detail, obviously.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> DIRTIEST PLAYER IN THE GAME.
> 
> Hate that people give Trips so much shit when the guy clearly knows what he's doing. A great performer, especially as a heel. His 2005 was pretty great - it's a shame he missed about a quarter of it, though.



To be honest, I only give Trips shit because so many people on this thread absolutely love him and think he's the greatest heel ever. I don't mind him at all, I own the KoK and TKC sets, and watch maybe 1 or 2 of his matches a week. I think he is a very GOOD heel, I don't like him when he tries to work face though, maybe it's just me but he never seems to understand the basic premise of what it means to work as a face underneath. I'd put him in the top 20 probably for best bad guys in wrestling. I just think guys like Rude, Perfect, Flair, DiBiase, Savage (when he was heel obviously), Eddie, Vader, JBL, Mark Henry, etc. were all better heels in their primes. What trips has is longevity, he's been on top for so long it's hard not to respect him for all the work he put in. You can gripe all you want about him marrying into the family, the bottom line is he wouldn't have been on top for as long as he was if he wasn't drawing viewers. I respect him and enjoy a good bit of matches he's in, but best heel ever, or best wrestler ever? No way, not a chance.


Speaking of great heels, JBL vs Eddie Bull rope match up next. This match rules, shit the entire Eddie vs JBL feud ruled, not a bad match in there, and a potential top 5 GOAT match at Judgement Day to boot.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Edit ^^ some guy in the mutimedia section posted it a month ago and I watched it as soon as he did


Thanks! I'll begin looking for it now.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I was saying that 2005 HHH > 2000 HHH for a while now.

GOAT Chamber, carried Orton, carried Batista, great matches with Benoit, classic matches & GOAT cage match with Flair, amazing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I was saying that 2005 HHH > 2000 HHH for a while now.
> 
> GOAT Chamber, carried Orton, carried Batista, great matches with Benoit, classic matches & GOAT cage match with Flair, amazing.


You haven't seen Tully vs Magnum I Quit? 

Just kidding, as I just wrote I thought that match was absolutely brilliant, one of the better ones WWE has had and a top 5 Flair WWE match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Bored as shit, and raw sucks besides the opening segment

I made a list of things on ppv I thought were good-:mark: ala Cody a couple days ago

rumble--
Nothing

EC---
miz/cesaro
6 man tag

MANIA---
punk/taker
6 man tag
lesnar/hhh

EXTREME RULES---
tag

PB----
dolph/adr

MITB---
sd mitb
cena/henry
dolph/adr
uso/shield

SS---
cena/bryan
punk/lesnar
christian/adr
sandow/rhodes

NOC
Havent seen

Battleground---
tag
orton/bryan


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We need a Real Americans vs. any tag team for 15-20 minutes. I swear Cesaro and Swagger can do no wrong now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> I never hear that part because I skip it everytime, this is a match I never wanna watch again.
> 
> Just like I never wanna watch Dolph/Orton from NOC 2012 my god is that match awful!


Well that's three of us now. Orton/Ziggler is just a bunch of nothing for like 15 minutes. That I Quit Match blows so hard too.

-------------------

Just saw the main event for RAW tonight. WHY is this not on ppv!?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

have no clue lovin this tag match atm


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well that's three of us now. Orton/Ziggler is just a bunch of nothing for like 15 minutes. That I Quit Match blows so hard too.
> 
> -------------------
> 
> Just saw the main event for RAW tonight. WHY is this not on ppv!?


Looks like they are going to get 25 minutes as well.

THIS NEEDS TO BE ON PPV


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Tuned in to Raw at the right time. Rhodes bros v Shield no DQ for the titles on now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

THAT WAS THE GREATEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!

:mark: :mark: :mark: SO HARD


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

That match was awesome holy shit

DAT SHIELD :mark: :mark: :mark:

RHODES BROTHERS :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Goldydust! Fuck yes!!!


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Angry Trips = GOAT Trips. 

Saw the first 80 minutes of Raw, and the last 5 minutes. Punk/Ryback and Heyman in the Cell? Okay, then.

That promo from Trips earlier :mark: :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bryan/Del Rio: ****1/4 - ***1/2*
Shield/Rhodes: ******

God damn what a fun RAW. And now we have an additional HIAC match to mark out for.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

That match or Battleground? Can't decide right now. Two completely satisfying tag matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Seriously a fun Raw. My buddy was there live tonight. Lucky bitch!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shield/rhodes bros was just :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll take this one over Battleground by just a hair. Mainly because of the SPOTS!~ and Ambrose's face when he saw Big Show. :lol

If they make a rematch at HIAC and put them inside the Cell, I'm gonna fucking go nuts. That match ACTUALLY deserves that stipulation now.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> That match or Battleground? Can't decide right now. Two completely satisfying tag matches.


Tonight's match>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Battleground for me. Not that BG was a bad match, but it was just a very good match.

That Raw match though was awesome. Top 10 match of a very stacked year so far. Awesome job on all guys involved. **** for it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Shield vs. Rhodes Dynasty was awesome and I thought DB vs. Del Rio was pretty good too. The RAW thread tonight, however, gets *

Porn debates, Bryan and Punk haters running amok, just the works. fpalm


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I cant decide which is better tbhayley loved this one though


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Liked this one more than battleground, this felt more like all out chaos near the ending.

Plus this one was more shield centric which is always a great thing, while the one at Battleground was more of a feel good story for the Rhodes family.

Plus it had REIGNS MURDERING FOOLS and ROLLINS :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea shield's performance was definitely better in this one


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

This match was way better than Battleground. Seriously I say this all the time but the Raw/Smackdown 2013 set is shaping up to be amazing if the right matches are on it. 

Goldydust vs Shield in the Cell would be fantastic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw (10/14/13)
Like I said, not sure which match I liked more, this one or Battleground. I loved Battleground so that automatically says this was great. First thing I thought to myself was that Goldust's knee drops look better than the knee drops that most people do. To be honest I thought this started out okay. Nothing more, nothing less, just okay, then they worked this really nifty sequence around Cody's Alabama Slam leading to a hot tag and it got really good. Rollins stood on Goldust's head with both feet in the corner. That was tight. Reigns actually makes his headlock look like something that matters, or maybe that was Goldust selling it like boss. Pretty much as soon as I asked myself "why is this a no DQ match? They're not doing anything with that stip" Ambrose got involved and Goldust started swinging for the fences with the chair and from thereon it's :mark: city. I literally went "OHHHH! DO IT!" when Rollins caught Cody's Disaster Kick attempt and was about to Buckle Bomb him on the outside (I know it's not a Buckle Bomb because it wasn't on the turnbuckles but you get what I'm trying to say). Great spot. Reigns bulldozing fools through the barricade is always good and I feel like he hasn't done that in a while. Big Show coming through the crowd and knocking out everyone was so awesome. The crowd fucking LOST THEIR SHIT for that. Great match. Certainly has a place in my top 20 of the year.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

FUCK Punk vs. Ryback & Heyman, HHH vs. Big Show or Shield vs. Rhodes Family needs to be inside Hell in a Cell.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Trips/Show should be at Survivor Series now. 

They did 3 cell matches in 2009 at the event, and that was overkill. I'd be down for Rhodes/Shield to be in the cell, but I honestly don't think Punk/RyHeyman needs it. Sure it's a "big" program and all, but it won't be a good match.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

Show/Rhodes Brothers vs. Shield at Survivor Series is going to be my best guess.

Trips/Show I don't think is going to happen this early


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

As badly as I want to see HHH/Show I can wait. Rhodes bros & Show v Shield sounds good to me.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watching Raw now. Cannot wait for the main event after reading Ownage's review. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The HHH DVD kind of sucks as far as the matches go but this was a welcome addition:

Triple H v Randy Orton - No Mercy '07 (Last Man Standing)
This is hands down Triple H's best babyface performance and possibly his best match since 2005. No Mercy the following year against Hardy, NoC v Cena and the two Taker matches are the other options but I think I'm gonna go with this. He's often struggled to put together compelling, sympathetic work as a face and he's guilty of coming off as cheesy or overly melodramatic when he tries to emote, but he was magnificent in this match. The selling of the injured ribs was absolutely top notch, both physically and vocally. Every time Orton hits him in the midsection he sells it like death and as a result his comeback attempts feel totally desperate and natural. Early on Trips goes for a desperation Pedigree and Orton counters with a double leg takedown (I think that's what it's called) and I never noticed until now but there's actually a struggle for Orton to make the counter. Really dug that. Orton's good in this too btw. HHH is definitely the better guy and the driving force but Orton's good. Thought he showed quite a bit of personality with his facials and shouting at the ref, way more than we get from him nowadays. He did this really great 'I'm still awake/alive but I'm not sure where I am or if I can get up' face after taking a chair shot. Favorite part of the match is definitely when Orton hits the RKO on a chair, HHH blades, barely beats the 10 count, leans on the ropes because he can't stand without their help, does a DX crotch chop and then falls back down. Great fuck you moment. HHH blocking the punt and hulking up also came off nicely when it had the potential to be awful. The action overall is good, the counts are well timed and the drama was there. Plus you had JR on commentary yelling amazing shit like "THIS IS LEGAL FELLONIOUS ASSAULT!" Excellent match.

[insert high star rating here]

HHH/Hardy up next.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just watched SID Vs Vader from In Your House Buried Alive & I was impressed. VADER bringing it while SID begins a hot streak with later matches against HBK & Bret ruling in late 96 and early 97. Shame that The Undertaker match is 10 minutes too long and probably should have been in the midcard perhaps.

Big Show Vs The Undertaker from No Mercy 2008 up next. Excited to see how this match holds up as I haven't seen it in....... WAIT, I HAVEN'T SEEN IT AT ALL. GOODIE.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Never seen Taker/Show? You're in for a treat.

The HHH/Hardy match on Thy Kingdom Come is solid but it's not the one I thought was on there. Their 12/12 match is better IIRC.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Great main event yesterday. Reminded me of the Attitude Era a little with all the interferences near the end. It's so awesome to see the titles become relevant again. Team Hell No! really restored credibility to the belts but the Shield main eventing a RAW with the titles on the line was the icing on the cake. I did question the Shield's booking in May - August (losing matches monthly was weird for a team that had beaten or attacked almost every big star) but this whole corporation storyline was the best for the Shield. 

I'm wonder if Ambrose is going to keep his title now.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Cody and Goldust winning the tag titles reminded me for some reason of some of the past tag teams both guys have been in, since both have quite a few tag title reigns under their belts.

Who remembers Cody Rhodes and Drew McIntyre? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I remember that team. Greatest thing to not last.

Oh yeah and tonight I got my wish. The rematch. No shock to me that it blew away all expectations. Shield & Rhodes Dynasty, oh yes. Shield continues their roll and the two brothers have already made some great cases for being top workers in 2013 themselves.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

****1/4 for the Tag Team ME from RAW, just awesome, cant wait to see what they will do with them at Hell in a Cell. And just like that, the Tag Team Titles match became more interesting than the WWE one


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: SHIELD VS RHODES' :mark:. Goldust in a month has shown everyone in the company that they got NOTHING on him. Tag match was fucking epic. Crowd started sucky, but jebus they picked up in the second half :mark:. REIGNS SPEAR TO GOLDUST THROUGH THE BARRICADE~! ROLLINS POWERBOMB TO CODY ON THE BARRICADE~! BIG SHOW~! NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! NEW TAG CHAMPS!!! :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It main evented RAW for a reason. Company knew they'd kill it again. This HAS to open the eyes of anyone who wasn't big on Goldust over the years.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

In relevance to some Goldust praise, glad to see him having a proper "late career" run so to speak.

His last few mini runs over the past few years were ok but the man is really knocking it out the park this go round.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

His last go was good. He wasn't given nearly this much of a chance in the limelight, however. That's where the work he's pumping out right now is succeeding at. Showing he's a big time player even at this age. _(40's)_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Raw didn't. Record 

Hulu though 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK.

:mark: :mark: :mark:

That main event was unreal, absolutely phenomenal. Dare I say top 5 Raw match of the year so far? Cena/Punk, Cesaro/Bryan, Shield/HellNoKo, Shield/GOATsofDestruction are above it. I know I'm missing something really obvious, but it's close. Rollins/Bryan I could possibly be better, will have to rewatch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Some of my favorite Goldust stuff was actually his tag team with Booker. I know longevity wise they shouldn't be consider one of the top teams in WWE history, but as a personal preference, they have always been one of my favorites to watch. It's so refreshing to seem him back creating that same tag team magic again, albeit with a different partner. Cody is better than Booker in a lot of ways, the biggest obviously being ring work. But Bookers charisma is what really made Booker/Goldust work. I loved hearing him beg for the hot tag yelling "Come on Goldie, come on man you can do it". 

It's too bad we can't get a Team Hell No revival for them to face off with Rhodes Dynasty. That would make for some tremendous matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK. FUCK.
> 
> :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> That main event was unreal, absolutely phenomenal. Dare I say top 5 Raw match of the year so far? Cena/Punk, Cesaro/Bryan, Shield/HellNoKo, Shield/GOATsofDestruction are above it. I know I'm missing something really obvious, but it's close. Rollins/Bryan I could possibly be better, will have to rewatch.


Shield vs Hell No a week after Extreme Rules.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I wonder if best of RAW And SD 2013 will be a four disc release like 2011? It deserves to be IMO as I'd pay more for more content. 

Thoughts on Jericho/RVD the night after MITB this year? I remember liking it.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kinda wish they'd go back to separate Raw and SD best of releases, so we could get 2 Bluray discs per show. Sure, we'd get more crap, but at the same time there would be room for as much of the awesomeness as possible :mark:.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So decided to watch Flair/HHH LMS to see if I "get it" this time or not.

Damn, how SMOKING FAP FAP FAP HOT does LILLIAN look on this show?










"I THINK FLAIR JUST LANDED ON HIS KENDO STICK!" Poor Flair's "kendo stick" .

HHH is screwing Flair on live PPV! And Flair is bleeding!

"COME ON FLAIR. GET UP YOU OLD BASTARD!"

PENIS CLAW~!

3 Announce Tables (Raw, SD and Spanish)... and the poor Spanish announce table still gets destroyed :lmao.

:lmao Flair's attack on HHH's penis is kinda awesome. I'LL FILL IN FOR HHH, STEPH!!!

VAMPIRE FLAIR~!

:lmao at Lawler: "YOU CAN'T STAND UP IF YOU DON'T HAVE LEGS!"

Fuck me, that shot to the head of Flair with the steel steps was BRUTAL. Even with the replay clearly showing Flair blocking it with his hands, it still looks sick!

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up!

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up!

PEDIGREE~!

FLAIR GETS UP!!!

SLEDGEHAMMER~!

And Flair is dead.

Match is good, not gonna deny that... but better than their cage? LOLNO. Close to their cage? LOLNO. Their cage is on a whole other level compared to this. In fact a lot of this felt like a poor version of their cage match, with them doing similar spots here and there. I probably liked the match more on this watch than I have in the past, and it IS good no doubt, but I'll never understand the greatness and I legitimately don't understand ANYONE putting this on the level of their cage and certainly not above it. THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE? 

***1/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Match is good, not gonna deny that... but better than their cage? LOLNO. Close to their cage? LOLNO. Their cage is on a whole other level compared to this. In fact a lot of this felt like a poor version of their cage match, with them doing similar spots here and there. I probably liked the match more on t*his watch than I have in the past, and it IS good no doubt, but I'll never understand the greatness and I legitimately don't understand ANYONE putting this on the level of their cage and certainly not above it. THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?
> *
> ***1/4


I'm that cult of personality Cal :hbk1

Waited for you guys to get on to talk about the tag last night ( DAT time zone difference)

Awesome match, cant decide which was better between battleground and last night, I'm leaning towards last nights though but idk still

Yea these rhodes bros./ shield tag are the best tags this year, the BOOMno/shield and hellno/reign.rollins were good not on this level though


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Best of RAW/SD 2013 has only been listed as a 3 disc dvd and 2 disc blu ray, but god I wish they would change that. There's been far too much good shit this year to skip over. 2011 pretty much covered all the essentials on the 4 discer, but you know this one's gonna have glaring omissions... FOUR DISCS PLEASE!

I like what Cal said too. :agree:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The way WWE have fucked up recent DVD releases, I wouldn't be surprised if they fuck up the Raw/SD Set too.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sigh, we all know hhh vs Curtis axel will make it but not last nights match/...


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Just watched last night's main event. Yeah, that was fucking awesome. So many intangibles. 

REIGNS to Rollins after Shield regains control (after Rhodes' beatdown of Rollins to start the match): "WANT SOME PAYBACK?!?" as he tags in Rollins.

Rollins mocking Goldust's taunt on the turnbuckle only to get fucking owned :lmao; Rollins is so good at being a little shit.

REIGNS shouting "YOU SHOULD NEVER DROP THE CHAIR" to Goldust.

The last few minutes were just fucking awesome. Show hasn't been this over in ages, so I guess the whole crying -> fuck this I'm a monster mini-storyline is working. I like how all of these mini storylines tie into the main event, with Show leading the crowd in "YES" chants to get under H's skin. Chaotic finish and Goldust took some rough bumps (missing the flying cross body and SPLATTING to the outside, being raped through the barricade by REIGNS, etc). Just so good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Cody punching REIGNS in the face only for REIGNS to just ROAR back at him was :mark:.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I forgot about that :lmao :lmao

Also, Goldust's punches are GOAT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Goldust's punches really are GOAT, look so realistic


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

William Regal Vs. Chris Benoit No Mercy 2006 4 star match imo. Love it


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cody's high knee has looked great every time I've seen him use it


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

When did Cody start using all these different moves in the ring? High knee, springboard dropkick, doing a moonsault in every match.  These brothers are lookin fantastic as a team. Rematch at HIAC please. Don't care about the stipulation, just give us anything.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ive seen him do the moonsault and springboard dropkick before, Cody is the man WOAH


Need something to watch right now


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> William Regal Vs. Chris Benoit No Mercy 2006 4 star match imo. Love it


*They also had an awesome Velocity match which was probably one of 2005's best matches.*


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

I never understood why Chris Benoit was on fucking Velocity .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

rjsbx1 said:


> *They also had an awesome Velocity match which was probably one of 2005's best matches.*







EDIT - Actually, i'm sure the match was in July...


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

4 star match imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They had 2 matches on Velocity, both very similar to each other. I always confuse which is which and when the fuck they happened .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> They had 2 matches on Velocity, both very similar to each other. I always confuse which is which and when the fuck they happened .


Yeah lol, sure its the 07/16 match that is the more 'renowned' one.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

William Regal was so underrated imo.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

He's definitely not underrated on this forum, as most of us with a brain appreciate how talented he is. In the grand scheme of the industry, though, I'd agree.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Rhodes/Shield from Raw match their outing from Battleground with another awesome ******** match. The ending sequence was just chaos. It was overbooked but I don't give a shit, that stuff was exciting as hell and while I would have liked Shield to keep the titles a little longer, I'm perfectly fine with them losing to Rhdoes who are white hot right now. If we get the triple threat with the Uso's involved at HIAC then :mark:. That match is going to be CARNAGE.


----------



## Duke Silver (Jan 24, 2005)

Shield/Rhodes has been money. The Rhodes boys are on such a role. This is probably the best thing that's ever happened for Cody, and it's brilliant to have Goldy back. I'd love to see it lead to an eventual feud, with Goldy eliminating Cody from the Rumble or costing him the title (3-4 months from now). For now though, tagging is exactly what I want. A good title reign would serve everyone well.

I hate the thought of diluting it with the Usos though. That stinks. Keep things simple and glorious.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Fuck that match last night was so much win. Reigns stole the show for me once again with his stuff at the end of the match, just brilliant intensity brought by the young star and it's getting easy to tell that he SHOULD be a future WWE Champion someday. 

Anyways, I'm gaining a ton of respect for Alberto Del Rio's 2013 heel work as I believe that on this run he's starting to "GET IT" more than he did the first go around (his face work was atrocious). Sucks because most of the time he's wrestling somebody like R-Truth for two minutes or Zack Ryder/Kofi Kingston or some shit. 

Alberto Del Rio Vs John Cena will steal the show barring the fact that they get 15-20. It's my guarantee.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Yeah, I have high hopes for ADR-Cena.

The thing is with ADR, he's a pure wrestler not a sports entertainer. He won't entertain you outside the ring, but dude can put on some quality matches.*


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

I never understood the idea of somebody being a "pure wrestler" .

I mean, I KIND of get where somebody is coming from by using that term, but that kind of thinking leads to MOVEZ~* glorification with a lack of emphasis placed on the actual story being told.

Del Rio is a dependable worker, as much as he bores me when he's outside of the ring. I think THAT'S what you mean when you say "pure wrestler" but the fact that he has a certain amateurish moveset doesn't make him good, it's his tenacity and his ability to CREATE that makes him good.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Not a fan of Del Rio, but he has the best looking kicks currently in the WWE IMO.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I wish they'd just do Rhodes/Shield III at the PPV but I'm cool with The Usos being in there as well. 

Cena/Del Rio should be great.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I guess using that term is a tad inappropriate. I honestly couldn't find a better term to use.

I want to like Del Rio outside the ring, he has a good look, and he says the right things... it's just there's no connection with him and the fans.*


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Usos vs Shield vs Rhodes Dynasty in a Three-Way TLC Match, now that's a match I'd pay to see


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Usos can fuck off. Don't want them involved in the tag title match nor are they in any way needed.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Del Rio's ring work is enough for me to like him. I'd take a guy who produces the goods in the ring but offers little elsewhere than somebody like say Damien Sandow who can apparently work a mic (I say apparently because I've never heard him cut a promo I really cared about) but bores me in the ring.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Swap em out for the Real Americans PLZ.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Nah, hope Cesaro is in the WHC title picture at TLC already. One man can hope


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Real Americans will probably face those 'Matadors'


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

As much as I dislike The Usos as an in ring duo, at least the WWE and the creative team are showing consistency/continuity and didn't just drop them and completely forget that they were the #1 contenders.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

People don't like The Usos in the ring?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Not a big fan of them, but their MITB match with The Shield was very good


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Always thought they were annoying as fuck.

I think the general consensus is that they're okay, but fuck that.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I don't find them anything special, but they do add depth top of the tag team division. 

I'd prefer Real Americans to be the ones to take the belts from Rhodes down the line.*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I like the Uso's. They're fun to watch.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I like the usos in-ring, one has a pretty nice superkick


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I haven't seen enough of them to really judge but what I have seen from them has been fine.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I don't mind the USOS. They're pretty entertaining in the ring at times. Their match against The Shield @ MITB was tons of fun. That being said, I'd still rather see a straight up rematch with Shield/Rhodes.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It's not as if they're shit, because they're not, they just do absolutely nothing for me. Just because they're a "proper tag team" and don't consist of two guys thrown together, as well as them having a bit of character, people automatically think they're a great team. They're just average at best at everything and don't bring anything new or exciting to the table.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

one of them actually has a personality and is funny, the one on total divas


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just re-watched both Rhodes/Shield tags. Two great matches but I'm giving the edge to Battleground.

Updated top 20: 

1. Brock Lesnar v CM Punk - Summerslam (8/18/13)
2. Dolph Ziggler v Alberto Del Rio - Payback (6/16/13)
3. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (8/21/13)
4. CM Punk v Undertaker - Wrestlemania 29 (4/7/13)
5. John Cena v Daniel Bryan - Summerslam (8/18/13)
6. CM Punk v John Cena - Raw (2/25/13)
7. Cody Rhodes & Goldust v Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins - Battleground (10/6/13)
8. Kassius Ohno v William Regal - NXT (4/10/13)
9. Brock Lesnar v Triple H - Extreme Rules (5/19/13)
10. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston v The Shield - Raw (5/20/13)
11. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw (5/27/13)
12. Roman Reigns & Seth Rollins v Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw (10/14/13)
13. Antonio Cesaro v Dolph Ziggler - Main Event (7/10/13)
14. Jack Swagger v Sami Zayn - NXT (9/5/13)
15. Antonio Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT (6/12/13)
16. John Cena, Ryback & Sheamus v The Shield - Elimination Chamber (2/17/13)
17. Antonio Cesaro v Cody Rhodes v Damien Sandow v Dean Ambrose v Fandango v Jack Swagger v Wade Barrett - Money in the Bank (7/14/13)
18. Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton v The Shield - Smackdown (6/14/13)
19. Alberto Del Rio v Jack Swagger - Smackdown (4/19/13)
20. Daniel Bryan v Ryback - Raw (6/3/13)


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Damn, I still need to see Swagger/Zayn.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

My top 10 this year is full of all **** matches or higher, and after looking, the Shield/Rhodes tag match from last night only just cracks my top 10. This year has been crazy awesome with matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> My top 10 this year is full of all **** matches or higher, and after looking, the Shield/Rhodes tag match from last night only just cracks my top 10. This year has been crazy awesome with matches.


If I had to throw ratings at my top 20 nothing would be lower than ***3/4. Such a good year, especially on TV.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*The only one I haven't seen is the most recent Cesaro/Zayn match and Swagger/Zayn. Unfortunately, I'm always out of the loop on NXT cause it isn't broadcasted where I'm at.*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cant do a MOTY list yet but here is my top ppv matches


1)punk/lesnar ss *****
2)dolph/adr pb **** 1/4
3)punk/taker wm **** +
4)cena/bryan ss ****
5)reigns/rollins vs. rhodes bros. battleground ****
6)cena/henry mitb ****
7)christian/adr ss *** 3/4
8)superfriends/shield ec *** 3/4
9)sd mitb *** 3/4
10)bryan/orton battleground *** 1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jesus fuck, that Main Event was just nuts. I, if by just a fingernail, prefer it over BG. Even before the all-out war that was the 2nd half, the tag physics like isolation and hot-tags were pretty much flawlessly executed imo.

ADR/Bryan was also ***1/2, very good as expected.

And folks, as far as I know, HHH/Show is a *lock* for SVS atm. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Cant do a MOTY list yet but here is my top ppv matches
> 
> 
> 1)punk/lesnar ss *****
> ...


Very similar to what my top 10 PPV list would look like. Top 5 is the same. Replace Bryan/Orton with HHH/Lesnar cage and switch up the order a bit and I think that's mine. Cena/Henry would be #10 for me unless I'm forgetting something. Possibly HHH/Brock from Mania.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Top 10 PPV matches this year?

1) Punk/Brock SS
2) Taker/Punk WM29
3) Bryan/Cena SS
4) Sandow/Barrett/Rhodes/Cesaro/Swagger/Ambrose/Fandango MITB
5) Ziggler/Del Rio PB
6) Rhodes Family/Shield BG
7) Punk/Jericho PB
8) Henry/Swagger/Orton/Jericho/Bryan/Kane EC
9) AJ/Kaitlyn PB
10) Ziggler/Del Rio MITB


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Cant do a MOTY list yet but here is my top ppv matches
> 
> 
> 1)punk/lesnar ss *****
> ...


Yea I think I covered everything, dont think I'm forgetting anything


@ SD yea I'm one of cena/henry biggest advocates and hhh/lesnar cage least. I havent watched anything from NOC, heard orton/bryan was Ok but really have no desire too


Edit: :lmao Sandrone reminded me its ziggler/adr mitb that would be ahead of bryan/orton maybe sd mitb


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

ATF said:


> Jesus fuck, that Main Event was just nuts. I, if by just a fingernail, prefer it over BG. Even before the all-out war that was the 2nd half, the tag physics like isolation and hot-tags were pretty much flawlessly executed imo.
> 
> ADR/Bryan was also ***1/2, very good as expected.
> 
> And folks, as far as I know, HHH/Show is a *lock* for SVS atm. :mark:


SummerSlam owned and then they gave us two shitty PPVs. Hell in a Cell and Survivor Series need to be great. They're shaping up that way.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HIAC is looking good. I thought they'd put Show/HHH on it, but it does make more sense to save it for Survivor Series. Stacking the HIAC card like that would be too much, especially with Survivor Series only a few weeks after that.

For SVS, Show/HHH seems locked with a HHH win, but do they continue with Bryan/Orton and/or Punk/Heyman? If so, I'd imagine they go into a 5-on-5 elimination match. Bryan, Punk, Rhodes, Goldust, and Ziggler vs. Orton, Ryback, and The Shield, with Bryan and Punk being the sole survivors. Then they do Cena/Del Rio in a rematch, or if by some miracle Sandow cashes in successfully on Cena or Del Rio and becomes World Champ at Battleground, a triple threat between Sandow/Cena/Del Rio for the strap. In either of those matches, whoever's the champ, retains.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Yea I think I covered everything, dont think I'm forgetting anything
> 
> 
> @ SD yea I'm one of cena/henry biggest advocates and hhh/lesnar cage least. I havent watched anything from NOC, heard orton/bryan was Ok but really have no desire too
> ...


Bro, you HAVE to watch Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls from NXT and Zayn/Swagger from NXT. It's on Hulu for free! Cesaro/Zayn makes my top 3 for the year and Zayn/Swagger makes the top 15.

Also, Cesaro/Sheamus from Main Even was just :mark: :mark:

1. Punk-Lesnar SS
2. Punk-Taker WM
3. Cesaro-Zayn 2/3 Falls NXT
4. Punk-Cena Raw
5. Bryan-Cena SS
6. Dolph-ADR PB
7. Sheamus-Cesaro ME
8. Shield-Rhodes Bros Raw
9. Shield-Rhodes Bros BG
10. Bryan-Rollins Raw
11. Zayn-Swagger NXT
12. Rising Stars MitB
13. Bryan-Reigns Raw
14. Shield-Hell No Raw after ER
15. Henry-Cena MitB
16. Christian-ADR SS
17. Shield vs Hell No Orton EC
18. Ziggler-ADR PB
19. Bryan-Orton NoC
20. All Star MitB 


Punk owns the top 5, but Shield owns the list. If you could give out a vote to a unit for worker of the year, Shield would get it from me. Count how many times they are on there. Amazing.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> HIAC is looking good. I thought they'd put Show/HHH on it, but it does make more sense to save it for Survivor Series. Stacking the HIAC card like that would be too much, especially with Survivor Series only a few weeks after that.
> 
> For SVS, Show/HHH seems locked with a HHH win, but do they continue with Bryan/Orton and/or Punk/Heyman? If so, I'd imagine they go into a 5-on-5 elimination match. Bryan, Punk, Rhodes, Goldust, and Ziggler vs. Orton, Ryback, and The Shield, with Bryan and Punk being the sole survivors. Then they do Cena/Del Rio in a rematch, or if by some miracle Sandow cashes in successfully on Cena or Del Rio and becomes World Champ at Battleground, a triple threat between Sandow/Cena/Del Rio for the strap. In either of those matches, whoever's the champ, retains.


That's exactly the card they should put together for Survivor Series. Wonder what gimmick they'll put on HHH/Show. Can't see them doing a normal match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> HIAC is looking good. I thought they'd put Show/HHH on it, but it does make more sense to save it for Survivor Series. Stacking the HIAC card like that would be too much, especially with Survivor Series only a few weeks after that.
> 
> For SVS, Show/HHH seems locked with a HHH win, but do they continue with Bryan/Orton and/or Punk/Heyman? If so, I'd imagine they go into a 5-on-5 elimination match. Bryan, Punk, Rhodes, Goldust, and Ziggler vs. Orton, Ryback, and The Shield, with Bryan and Punk being the sole survivors. Then they do Cena/Del Rio in a rematch, or if by some miracle Sandow cashes in successfully on Cena or Del Rio and becomes World Champ at Battleground, a triple threat between Sandow/Cena/Del Rio for the strap. In either of those matches, whoever's the champ, retains.


I would hope Trips gets the win at Survivor Series, if the match goes down.

I read that Punk may be taking more time off soon, due to more nagging injuries, so he may leave after HIAC, and be back for the Rumble (hopefully). Then his contract is up during summer of next year. 

Never thought about Sandow cashing in on Cena. That would be a pretty cool rub for Sandow, actually. Don't know if they'll completely move Del Rio away from the title just yet, but that could be cool. 

Rhodes winning the tag belts is pretty cool, but I'm kind of meh on Show getting involved. Guess it made sense in the grand scheme. REIGNS continues to impress also.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I would hope Trips gets the win at Survivor Series, if the match goes down.
> 
> I read that Punk may be taking more time off soon, due to more nagging injuries, so he may leave after HIAC, and be back for the Rumble (hopefully). Then his contract is up during summer of next year.
> 
> ...


I'm asking this is in a completely serious way, not trying to be inflammatory or start a Hatich war:

Why would it be "best for business" for Show to lose to Trips at SVS? Show is still a full time guy who needs to be called on to wrestle and sell PPV's. Wouldn't it be better for Trips to lose and give Show the rub of taking out "the man"? Trips can just come back and make life even worse on Show and he won't lose any heat. But if Show loses, couldn't you see that killing the little mini-momentum he's got going now after knocking Trips out? My point is, trips doesn't gain anything by going over Show. Trips just went over Lesnar at Mania last year, he's beat way bigger and badder guys than Big Show. Isn't it better to give the rub to the full time performer?


Just a thought-Trips has spent a lifetime beating the biggest and baddest guys the WWE has to offer. When is it time for him to start giving back instead of just winning every time? He's had a HoF career and is considered one of the best ever by "The WWE Universe". He has nothing left to gain or prove by beating people. Mr. McMahon would go over a foe occasionally, but that was only to delay his comeuppence until the maximum amount of dollars were earned. Vince always lost in the end.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm asking this is in a completely serious way, not trying to be inflammatory or start a Hatich war:
> 
> Why would it be "best for business" for Show to lose to Trips at SVS? Show is still a full time guy who needs to be called on to wrestle and sell PPV's. Wouldn't it be better for Trips to lose and give Show the rub of taking out "the man"? Trips can just come back and make life even worse on Show and he won't lose any heat. But if Show loses, couldn't you see that killing the little mini-momentum he's got going now after knocking Trips out? My point is, trips doesn't gain anything by going over Show. Trips just went over Lesnar at Mania last year, he's beat way bigger and badder guys than Big Show. Isn't it better to give the rub to the full time performer?


HHH beating Show is 100% for sure if the match happens as far as I'm concerned. No way Show beats HHH. While I get what you're saying and would agree if HHH was facing someone else like Cody or Ziggler or something, Show is someone who due to his size, can take the loss and recover, while HHH is continually built up to eventually lose to (hopefully) Bryan.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, Big Show gains nothing by beating Trips. Bryan needs to be the one to beat him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> HHH beating Show is 100% for sure if the match happens as far as I'm concerned. No way Show beats HHH. While I get what you're saying and would agree if HHH was facing someone else like Cody or Ziggler or something, Show is someone who due to his size, can take the loss and recover, while HHH is continually built up to eventually lose to (hopefully) Bryan.


See now that makes perfect sense to me. That's what I'm asking. If the big payoff in the end is making Bryan bigger and better than ever, I'm all for it. I just didn't see the logic I'm Trips beating Big Show and that being the end of matters. Show being a place holder for Bryan makes sense.

How funny would it be if the day finally came for Trips to face Bryan after all this build up and......Trips went over just to give a big fuck you to his haters. That's pretty much exactly what happened at NoC with Punk, and it would make me die laughing if he did it again because of how pissed people would be. That's the most over heel thing I can think of. The finish would have to be the ref some how taking a bump, Trips going under the ring for what everyone assumes is the Sledge, but instead comes out with a shovel and clocks Bryan with the ref coming to right in time to count the 1-2-3. Oh the irony :lmao


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I think Trips has to win at SVS, if he's going to be wrestling at WM XXX against whoever. 

There's going to be a huge delay from when Trips possibly wrestles Show to when HHH would wrestle Bryan at Mania XXX so it's good for him to get the win, do his on-screen thing and then at XXX put over Bryan. *


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

If Trips goes over Bryan, I'll be like :kobe, but at the same time :ti at all the Bryan marks.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*The meltdown on this forum would be :lmao :lmao *


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Bro, you HAVE to watch Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls from NXT and *Zayn/Swagger* from NXT. It's on Hulu for free! Cesaro/Zayn makes my top 3 for the year and Zayn/Swagger makes the top 15.
> 
> Also, *Cesaro/Sheamus* from Main Even was just :mark: :mark:
> 
> ...


:lmao nah I just made a top PPV list bro, I've seen all those, as a matter of fact I think I'm the one that recommended those to you iirc

Yea HHH has to beat show at svs, Am I the only one that think this is just one off for Cena and just out of desperation of the company to bring him back ? I see unfortunately Sandow cashing in at HIAC and cena wont be back until the rumble or something


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm asking this is in a completely serious way, not trying to be inflammatory or start a Hatich war:
> 
> Why would it be "best for business" for Show to lose to Trips at SVS? Show is still a full time guy who needs to be called on to wrestle and sell PPV's. Wouldn't it be better for Trips to lose and give Show the rub of taking out "the man"? Trips can just come back and make life even worse on Show and he won't lose any heat. But if Show loses, couldn't you see that killing the little mini-momentum he's got going now after knocking Trips out? My point is, trips doesn't gain anything by going over Show. Trips just went over Lesnar at Mania last year, he's beat way bigger and badder guys than Big Show. Isn't it better to give the rub to the full time performer?
> 
> ...


You answered your own question .


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nah, man. If they're promoting a Cena return this hard, he's most certainly coming back. The question is, does he appear on Smackdown and Raw, like most World Champions. I would imagine he wins it and keeps it until the Elimination Chamber.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Show is getting built up like this right now for the sole reason of losing to HHH. He's an enhancement for the COO Triple H character. It's not about Big Show long term, it's about establishing HHH in his new position. Besides, Show beating HHH will do more harm than HHH beating Show. WWE relies on Triple H a hell of a lot more than they rely on Big Show. Hopefully this all leads to Bryan/HHH at Mania, that would be ideal. It's probably leading to HHH putting Cena over though lol.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Cena/Trips would be so silly in my opinion, because not doing Cena/Taker at such a milestone event is silly. It's also a match that does nothing, for anybody. 

Cena facing Trips after Bryan's the one going through all this would be like Hogan returning to face Rock or Vince in 1999, after Austin had been feuding with them.

I've read that they've discussed Punk/Orton, which is pretty meh. I think Orton/Rock could be fun, if Rock is back. Just keep Rock away from Lesnar, unless it's a squash match. :lol


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Show is getting built up like this right now for the sole reason of losing to HHH. He's an enhancement for the COO Triple H character. It's not about Big Show long term, it's about establishing HHH in his new position. Besides, Show beating HHH will do more harm than HHH beating Show. WWE relies on Triple H a hell of a lot more than they rely on Big Show. Hopefully this all leads to Bryan/HHH at Mania, that would be ideal. It's probably leading to HHH putting Cena over though lol.


I like Bryan, but I'd still mark if he got the shovel cause HHH .

Big Show/HHH will rule the earth because Trips is going to show the locker room how to be a heel and Big Show is going to get picked apart, Cerebral Assassin style. I'd honestly rather the endgame for all of this be Punk Vs HHH in a title Vs control of the company kind of deal, but I guess Vs Bryan or Cena would work too. Bryan Vs HHH NEEDS to fucking happen though, seriously... Bryan going over HHH at this point I think would propel him to superstardom that even a clean win over Cena couldn't do for him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

so many big/huge payoff matches can happen at mania if you think of it

punk/cena
punk/hhh
cena/taker
brock/taker
punk/brock
bryan/hhh
bryan/punk
bryan/punk/cena

throw orton into the mix


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

And to think it's very possible that NONE of those matches may happen.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Bryan/HHH or bust.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

bryan/hhh
punk/cena
brock/taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some matches I uploaded to my DM account today:

Sami.Zayn.vs.Antonio.Cesaro.2.Out.Of.3.Falls.Match.720p.(from 2013-08-21.NXT)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5d7Frtu679mEs4LWFA (Private)

The Shield Vs The Rhodes Family - WWE Raw 14 October 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7EkZ9CETAUp1i4LWf1 (Private)

The Shield Vs The Rhodes Family - WWE Battleground 2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kdPVwbTfC28BtB4LVxV (Private)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

When was the last year that had as many epic Tags as this? 2002?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> I like Bryan, but I'd still mark if he got the shovel cause HHH .
> 
> Big Show/HHH will rule the earth because Trips is going to show the locker room how to be a heel and Big Show is going to get picked apart, Cerebral Assassin style. I'd honestly rather the endgame for all of this be Punk Vs HHH in a title Vs control of the company kind of deal, but I guess Vs Bryan or Cena would work too. Bryan Vs HHH NEEDS to fucking happen though, seriously... Bryan going over HHH at this point I think would propel him to superstardom that even a clean win over Cena couldn't do for him.


If they give us Cena/Taker, which I think most of us can agree is the dream Streak match scenario, it leaves a lot of questions in the air. We have to assume the hopeful, eventual pay off is also HHH/Bryan for control of the company. So where does Punk fit into all this? What about Brock? And what about the WWE title? And Randy Orton. I for one wouldn't mind Brock-Punk II if they did it in a Cell or cage, as long as we got Trips/Bryan and Taker/Cena. But then Orton is the odd man out, and who has the WWE title?

No, my thinking is they need to have HHH/Bryan at Rumble with Bryan going over and retaining the title he wins at HiaC. Then have Punk enter the picture, he either turns heel and starts a real program with Bryan, OR he stays face and simply duke it out to see who really is "The Best in the World". That would leave us with this at mania:

Taker/Cena Streak Match
Punk/Bryan for the WWE title

Then something like Brock/Orton.
And maybe the Shield breaks up and Trips goes after the breakout star of the group, likely Reigns or Rollins at this point.

The thing is, I think WWE probably wants to save Bryan/Punk for future manias, when they are even more established than they already are.


I'm not sure, if that point wasn't already obvious. So many different ways to go.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Show/Trips and Bryan/Trips = :mark:


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

ATF said:


> When was the last year that had as many epic Tags as this? 2002?


2003 was also a solid year as far as tags go, but mainly from the Smackdown side.

Edge/Benoit vs Team Angle- Smackdown 1/9/03 & 1/30/03 
Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle & Team Angle- No Way Out 2003
Los Guerreros vs Chris Benoit & Rhyno- Smackdown 3/13/03
Tajiri/Eddie vs Team Angle- Smackdown 5/22/03
Mysterio/Kidman vs TWGTT- Vengeance 2003 & Smackdown 8/14/03
Tajiri/Nunzio vs Mysterio/Kidman- Smackdown 9/11/03

There are other tag matches that year that I'm probably forgetting about.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

For WM:

Show/HHH
Cena or Lesnar/Taker
WWE Title: Bryan/Punk

I don't want to see Punk/Orton in any fashion.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Thanks to Callamus, watched the RAW tag and good stuff. 

Not **** worthy for me, that would put it above so much incredible '80s tag. But this is good in it's own right. Better pacing than their BG match, loved the Goldust dominance sequence. It's a shame that I don't think we'll ever see that Rhodes/Americans tag. Goldust vs Cesaro? Hold the fucking front pages. Good enough anyway. Maybe something like ***1/4 or 1/2. IDK.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> When was the last year that had as many epic Tags as this? 2002?


2004.

My preferred WM card would be:

Brock vs Taker
Bryan vs HHH (WWE Title)
Cena vs Sheamus (WHC)
Orton vs Rock


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> When was the last year that had as many epic Tags as this? 2002?


Not counting the shit storms with Angle & Benoit. b/c those suck except for Survivor Series.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

angle talk ?


watching HHH/taker mania 27


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Two topics I don't ever want to speak about again.

Unless it's Angle vs Austin from SummerSlam. For life.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> angle talk ?
> 
> 
> watching HHH/taker mania 27


Match went down to **** on last watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Everyone always forgets about Lesnar/Cena vs. Angle/Taker


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Anyone know a couple of <15 minute matches from '11/'12? Downloading the WWE Best PPV matches of 2012 hasn't turned out so good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel - Hell in a Cell 2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Zack Ryder - Night of Champions 2012
Dolph Ziggler & Jack Swagger vs Kofi Kingston & R-Truth - Over the Limit 2012
Mark Henry vs Sheamus - SummerSlam 2011
Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - SummerSlam 2011
Jack Swagger vs Evan Bourne - Capitol Punishment
Mark Henry vs Big Show - Money in the Bank & Vengeance 2011

Few off the top of my head. Well, from PPV only. Assumed that was more along the lines of what was requested.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Anyone know a couple of <15 minute matches from '11/'12? Downloading the WWE Best PPV matches of 2012 hasn't turned out so good.


Alberto Del Rio vs. Kofi Kingston - Elimination Chamber 2011
Falls Count Anywhere: Rey Mysterio vs. Cody Rhodes - Extreme Rules 2011


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Think I'll get started on them Mark Henry matches. Thank God for Dailymotion. Double cheers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Omg the Rhodes vs Mysterio match. Add the WM on in there too. 

Del Rio vs Kofi, lulz.


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

Throw in the Show/Henry Survivor Series match too, my personal favorite of the 4 PPV matches they had.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Did no one really not mention ADR vs Cena from Vengeance 2011? :shocked:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^ Didn't know that was under 15 minutes. I'll be getting to that soon in the Del Rio project.

You should watch Del Rio/Kofi, Desecrated. It's on dailymotion in great quality, so there's no excuse not to.  Someone else needs to watch it and explain that it's actually a GOOD match.

Cody's just full of it tonight. First no fun on the Angle/Benoit tags, now this? Get outta here.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ^^ Didn't know that was under 15 minutes. I'll be getting to that soon in the Del Rio project.
> 
> You should watch Del Rio/Kofi, Desecrated. It's on dailymotion in great quality, so there's no excuse not to.  Someone else needs to watch it and explain that it's actually a GOOD match.
> 
> Cody's just full of it tonight. First no fun on the Angle/Benoit tags, now this? Get outta here.


Didn't know he was asking for under 15 minutes 

He has that show on DVD so great quality isn't an issue


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle & Benoit tags stink. Benoit was just as awful as Angle in 'em. It's not right.

Del Rio vs Kingston is the same ol mediocre schlock they always produce. Del Rio is fine enough, but yeah come on now on the other half. Springboard, SOS, boom drop, attempted kick. He's not a wrestler. Like I said, some random ass hot crowd isn't going to blind me that a match is nothing special. No way, no how.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's literally impossible for that idiot to have a great match since he doesn't even wrestle!

I hate Langston but atleast he does some stuff.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> ^^ Didn't know that was under 15 minutes. I'll be getting to that soon in the Del Rio project.
> 
> You should watch Del Rio/Kofi, Desecrated. It's on dailymotion in great quality, so there's no excuse not to.  Someone else needs to watch it and explain that it's actually a GOOD match.
> 
> Cody's just full of it tonight. First no fun on the Angle/Benoit tags, now this? Get outta here.


The mere mention of Kofi Kingston and quality (and great) is difficult to grasp. But maybe it just takes the right man to put Kofi's tacky offence into something good.

Sheamus/Henry SS11 was a bit off what I had hoped. For the story of Sheamus being capable of taking Henry down, yeah sure it has worked out. But I had hopes of the two of them battling like two Godzillas. If it didn't go for that, Henry overpowering Sheamus, the latter working a 'out from the very deep' comeback and going for the same finish would of been just as acceptable.

Show/Henry MITB11, I liked this. It was more of a segment than a match but i'll settle.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best match of his career - did two things on offense. Bless that Antonio Cesaro for the greatest carry job since Hart vs Smith.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Air Boom always churned out good matches on PPV. Bless that Evan Bourne. Carried Kofi in a different way than Cesaro, but it was of equal magnitude

Orton/Rhodes, Rhodes/Morrison, and Rhodes/Dibiase from 2011 PPVs were all good. Cody was probably the best IC champion since Orton.

Christian and Sheamus also had some decent bouts, but they were too predictable to truly immerse yourself in.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Agreed. Their bad matches were more few and far between thanks to Bourne. The tag scenario is all I can honestly stomach Kingston in on most occasions. Of course that's not always a lock each time, but for the bits that mattered - Air Boom worked well.

Don't like the Vengeance Cody Rhodes match, but all the rest were good & worth a watch.

Sheamus vs Christian matches I dug quite a bit. Yeah, predictable, but at least the quality was there in the ring.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hart/smith is one if the most boring matches ever that iyh though is all love 

Remember really liking that Sheamus/Henry ss11


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Season's Beatings match is :mark:

Henry vs Sheamus was the clear cut MOTN for me on SummerSlam & that's a real strong show too. Danielson vs Barrett & Punker vs Cena were very good themselves, but it was the match that split the world in half _(stolen phrase from a Texan..)_ which won my heart.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ss 11 is one of the fav ppv ever for me, loved the build with the two wwe champs.

I agree with all you said, and some think orton/Christian was great


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a fun mindless match for the first half, then towards the end with the callbacks to MITB I liked. More style than substance overall for me, but I can enjoy it too. Workrate is off the charts and I know that appeals to some folk.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That entire string of PPVs in the second half of 2011 is just pure quality. NoC could have joined the bunch if the double main event wasn't so poorly booked/structured, but if you turned off the PPV after Mark Henry hushed all the doubters, it is a really good PPV. HIAC and Vengeance are both underappreciated shows, SvS and TLC are superfun, SS is filled with one good match after another, and MITB is my favorite PPV of all-time.

Orton/Christian SS (and I guess Orton/Rhodes from Smackdown 2011 for that matter) are matches that I should theoretically hate because when face Orton dominates his opponent in a hardcore match, everything just feels so stupid. Maybe it's the beauty of Christian that makes me enjoy them, because I hated the ending of the SS match. Big fan of the Capitol Punishment match though. For a highly criticized PPV, Capitol Punishment did have three good matches and one guilty pleasure of mine.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

GOD DAMMIT! I had my next post in the Del Rio project 2/3 of the way finished and typed out, so Firefox just decided to crash. Fuckers. Whatever, I'll make this a condensed version cause I'm not retyping everything:

*Falls Count Anywhere #1 Contender's Match: *Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio (_RAW - June 20, 2011_) - ***
_A fast paced, fun matchup where everyone went for pinfalls at any opportunity. Mysterio was the highlight per usual.

_*Money in the Bank Ladder Match: *Alberto Del Rio vs. Rey Mysterio vs. The Miz vs. R-Truth vs. Alex Riley vs. Evan Bourne vs. Jack Swagger vs. Kofi Kingston (_Money in the Bank 2011_) - *** 1/4
_Nowhere near as good as the other MITB match on that night, but I liked how well they created the struggles to grab the briefcase in the last half of the match. Really only one or two major spots but Del Rio won looking like a total badass. Shame he did nothing but take bumps throughout the whole match though. _

Alberto Del Rio, The Miz, & R-Truth vs. Rey Mysterio, Kofi Kingston, & John Morrison (_Summerslam 2011_) - ** 1/2
_Kofi annoyed the hell outta me in this one. Rey's tights were awesome. Pretty standard stuff from all guys involved here. _

My gif for this installment:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That entire string of PPVs in the second half of 2011 is just pure quality. NoC could have joined the bunch if the double main event wasn't so poorly booked/structured, but if you turned off the PPV after Mark Henry hushed all the doubters, it is a really good PPV. *HIAC and Vengeance are both underappreciated shows*, SvS and TLC are superfun, SS is filled with one good match after another, and MITB is my favorite PPV of all-time.
> 
> Orton/Christian SS (and I guess Orton/Rhodes from Smackdown 2011 for that matter) are matches that I should theoretically hate because when face Orton dominates his opponent in a hardcore match, everything just feels so stupid. Maybe it's the beauty of Christian that makes me enjoy them, because I hated the ending of the SS match. Big fan of the Capitol Punishment match though. For a highly criticized PPV, Capitol Punishment did have three good matches and one guilty pleasure of mine.


Agreed. Vengeance had a few matches on it I thought were meh, but it's mostly chalk full of goodness. HIAC is good the whole way through. Even the Sin Cara mess b/c that is too hilarious for words. I wanted it to bomb and it did so I was a very happy fan.

Oh, while the SummerSlam match is mindless fun, Orton can go fuck himself in it in the first half. Typical crap from him. And yep, ending is the worst of the year. So stupid. I harp on that all the time.

Capitol Punishment is a two match show. It deserves the hate. Punker vs Mysterio & Swagger vs Bourne. Rest is mediocre or lol worthy. I do love Riley's win being a fan of his and all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just saw the last couple of Pgs, Cody plugging Bourne/swagg is the first time I have ever heard someone say something positive at all about capital punishment


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Mysterio is universally loved. You've never noticed that, skins? I'd say it seems to be everyone's favorite match of their's in WWE. Or, it feels that way. You have to watch it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ forgot punk/Rey was at cp nvm loved that match, yea captial punishment is funny and will have a special place in my heart because I got back into wrestling for the first time since early 07 during its build

:lmao first memory was some crazy rtruth promo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Still can't believe that guy got a PPV main event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Heel Truth was really fun. He still sucked at wrestling, but those promos were too funny.

Evan Bourne and Jack Swagger had a fun beat the clock match in 09 on RAW. We desperately need him back.

Still can't believe Truth got to have TWO main events AND beat Punk during the Summer (or fall) of Punk.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Would have been like the rumors of Punk/Kofi at Hell in a Cell last year. I shudder at the thought of losing such an underrated and intelligently worked bout such as Punk/Ryback in which Punk had a fantastic heel performance, and switching it out for some typical Kofi dreck.

Watching the very last HHH-Rock bout on the go-home show to Summerslam 2002, never heard anything about it before, but BROCK is watching and it's always great to see the beast.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vintage WWE booking. Then they reset everything come Survivor Series by dropping Del Rio from that picture and put the strap on Punker for over a year. Who knows what in the hell they were thinking with Punk following SummerSlam. So bad.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Apparently Punk and Kofi had a really good house show match in Toronto this year. Went for 15-20 minutes and might have been kofi's best match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh sheesh, who's stupid enough to believe that crap?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't know. The GOAT works in mysterious ways. If Mark Henry can have a good match with Ezekiel Jackson, surely Punk can have a good one with his best friend.

So apparently Tyson Kidd is finally back.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I would have taken Punk v. Kofi over Punk v. Ryback.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You're dead to me.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I also like the Usos.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's impossible.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I agree with him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mediocrity is now fashionable.

you guys are giving me this kind of material that I almost don't think it's fair.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

How's my new avi look? :troll #GOATfiKINGston

Gonna have WrestleMania X8 playing in the background while I study


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:troll to the max


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mediocrity was already fashionable here when it became cool to like Goldberg.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

This show is missing some KOFI. 

Boom! Boom! SOS! I eatin' Shelton! SOS! I eatin' :bryan!


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Rhodes Dynasty Vs The Shield (14/10/2013 WWE)* - this was as perfect as perfect can be. While their match at Battleground delivered in terms of its feel-good moment, I cannot help but wonder if The Shield kept back purely to have the Rhodes brothers spotlight ever so much brighter than theirs. The need was no longer there, now, and, as such, we're left purely with the beauty that these two teams can create. I'm almost glad that they didn't go for the No-DQ stipulation straight away as when the chair came into play it felt wholly more like a desperation ploy than an added weapon for the sake of violence. In addition to this, the build was to the tee good and allowed for Goldust to deliver himself in a role he's so great at playing. Every teased moment had a logical counterpoint to it, as well, and turned you full circle in believing who would be picking up the win in the forthcoming moments. For example, when Goldust brought in the chair, out of desperation, it did not feel like a cheap way of turning the tides further on the faces. I believed, in that moment, that Goldust found an equalizer against Reigns but, boy, did my belief change when Reigns got a hold of that chair. I almost felt sorry for Goldust, considering Reigns sold his vicious monster gimmick to perfection at this point. Once this sense of equality is built, though, the match devolves into a whirlwind of chaos that's become endemic of The Shield tags. There's interference and spots galore yet nothing surpasses the right amount. It had every bit of a chance to become a clusterfuck yet turned out to be, as I said, perfect. It's not only how sports entertainment should be booked but tag team wrestling, as well. For my money, this is the best of The Shield tags by a healthy margin.



The Shield came as the answer to the plight of the tag team division yet the Rhodes brothers are quickly becoming a revision to that sentence. Cena putting over the world title while Bryan/Corporation feud for the main is something notable, too. WE THE PEOPLE defying logic, in terms of human strength capacities, added gives us pretty much an entire card of programmes that are worth watching. Happy days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Mediocrity was already fashionable here when it became cool to like Goldberg.


All jokes aside, not really. b/c the only people who think Goldberg is or was mediocre are the fans who aren't smart enough to realize what Goldberg's game was. He wasn't meant to be a brilliant wrestler. He was meant to be a force who smashed people which garnered electric reactions. He blew up for a reason - b/c he had an it factor about him. When it turns out a good portion of his matches are actually good, well, the arguments against him are quite nil. Not being a fan is one thing, but trying to not give him credit is another thing altogether.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm still not positive what the Goldberg criticisms are. Well shit, I could actually come up with criticisms for him; he's not a *great* wrestler. Mediocre though? Nah. Someone should tell me why they think Goldberg is mediocre because I hear it all the time (it's pretty common to not call him good as most would knowwww). I've wrote tons of bullshit on why I think he's above average. He seems to me like one of those guys that gets flack for not being a 'technical whiz' (which is ironic given he's the master of the 'how the fuck does he know how to do that!?' reversal spot), or for doing something less-than-decent outside the ring, or for being mainly known as a draw, or, IDFK....someone fill me in. I can't ask anybody to like him, but why isn;t he good?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Watched Rock/Austin at WM 19 yesterday. I was surprised by how much I liked WM 17 more, since people usually have both matches at around the same level (and some prefer WM 19 more).

The Rock was fantastic in WM 19, and I think that may contribute to some of the intense enjoyment. Much of what I liked about that match was The Rock's charisma during the match. He was larger than life, and that was one of his best performances, IMO.

However, both Austin & Rock were totally on their games during WM 17, I thought. Haven't watched it in awhile, but I found them both to be electric as hell. During WM 19, I could see that Austin's injuries had caught up to him. He was soooo noticeably slow to me, even to the point where I felt that he delivered his middle fingers to the ref without much energy (specifically when he was kicking The Rock down into the corner of the turnbuckle). I also felt like their moves looked noticeably fake, in a way I'd never felt from them before.

Just seemed to be a less polished match, though I can understand why people would be enamored with it, as from the point The Rock wore Austin's jacket, it became pretty engrossing. Plus, it contained less of the typical Attitude Era stuff that WM 17 contained, so I can see people feeling that it was just a more smartly done, "real", match.

Still, I'd rate it:
WM 17 (by far)
WM 19
WM 15


Maybe my opinion will change if I re-watch WM 17, though. I could be latching on to it because it was the first Rock/Austin match I re-watched, so I probably hold it in high regard for the electricity and monumental quality of it alone. Maybe my memories of the actual match aren't too accurate.

I also haven't seen Backlash yet. How is Backlash? And are there any other big Austin/Rock matches?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Often times I hear b/c he can't work like Benoit _(random example, but he's brought up a lot)_ he isn't any "good". Which is about the flimsiest answer anyone could give. Suppose Benoit is brought up b/c Goldberg became World Champ before him in both WCW & WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Goldberg talk? Yes please :mark: Fuck the haters, I was going to ask what peoples' thoughts are on his work, in terms of matches and indeed squashes lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I too would've taken Punk vs. Kofi over Punk vs. Ryback last year... but I have no idea why that would've happened?



LilOlMe said:


> I also haven't seen Backlash yet. How is Backlash? And are there any other big Austin/Rock matches?


Backlash is great. Better than Mania 19 for me. People overrate that one to the heavens.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

But Ryback got it and the world is a much better place.

More like people overrate the WrestleMania 17 match. So much of that middle section drags hard. Typical Attitude Era brawling. I still 'like' the match, but meh. Nowhere near a classic. Again, the fans going nuts off everything is a perception that doesn't warp me from the work being put forth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM 19 > WM 17 > Backlash 99 > all the rest that would be better off forgotten.

GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLDBERG. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLDBERG. GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODBERG.

Someone invent a time machine so I can go back to 1993 and bring Vader to 1998 and have him wrestle Goldberg.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vader should have just went to WCW for a program with Goldberg before heading back to Japan. If only things didn't end poorly in '95. WCW kind of went that route considering they brought in Triple B - another amazing big man - to have a program with Goldberg. Now that's a match I have to relive. Remember next to nothing about it and I'm 99% it's gonna be really awesome. Their SuperBrawl match, I mean. Think something happened on TV with decent time but had a non-finish.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I remember some TV stuff and maybe triple threat with BBB and G-Berg but don't recall a singles PPV match from them. NOW I MUST WATCH.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some other matches they had:

Goldberg v. Bam Bam Bigelow v. Kevin Nash (Nitro 12/14/98)
Goldberg v. Bam Bam Bigelow v. Scott Hall (Nitro 1/18/99)
Goldberg v. Bam Bam Bigelow (Thunder 9/9/99)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whoop, there it is. :mark:

Huh, their singles match was on Thunder? Could have sworn that was Nitro. I do the same thing with RAW & Smackdown back in the day too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Whoop, there it is. :mark:
> 
> Huh, their singles match was on Thunder? Could have sworn that was Nitro. I do the same thing with RAW & Smackdown back in the day too.


Think this is the Thunder match:






Anyone seen any of Goldie's matches in Japan?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Japan single matches are all pretty linear, but that's not a drawback. Was a touch baffling to see him run through some talents over there like they were nothing. Satoshi Kojima, for example, got mowed down in about six minutes. Goldberg didn't even with that one with the Jackhammer.

Part of me won't lie in how I love that Goldberg main evented the first HUSTLE event in 2004. Beat a worker I dislike too so :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that saved me some time looking on UTube . Downloaded the PPV and Thunder match (also could have sworn it was on Nitro...).


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Goldberg vs Bigelow :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bigelow match we're thinking of seems to be from 2000 only. Unless they had a brawl that was meant to be a "match" in '98 or early '99.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Looking at some of Bigelow's matches in Japan, man he had some great people to work with, some standout matches:

Bam Bam Bigelow vs. Big Van Vader (8/8/88)
Bam Bam Bigelow & Davey Boy Smith vs. Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (6/10/90, AJPW)
Bam Bam Bigelow & Big Van Vader vs. Keiji Muto & Masa Chono (7/29/91, NJPW)
Bam Bam Bigelow & Masahiro Chono vs. Big Van Vader & Tatsumi Fujinami (10/7/91, NJPW)
Bam Bam Bigelow & Big Van Vader vs. Rick & Scott Steiner (6/26/92, NJPW)
Bam Bam Bigelow & Big Van Vader vs. Shinya Hashimoto & Masahiro Chono (3/9/92, NJPW)
Bigelow/Owen Hart vs. Chris Benoit/Steve Williams

:mark:

EDIT - Yeah Primer, that '98 match was Bam Bam's debut and he called out Goldberg and they had a brawl.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Looking at some of Bigelow's matches in Japan, man he had some *great people to work with*, some standout matches:
> 
> Keiji Muto & Masa Chono


Not sure if serious :side: .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought so on the Goldberg/Bigelow brawl aspect.

CAL, LEAVE MUTA ALONE. Surprised you're able to remember two Japanese names like that, tbhayley.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll leave Muta/Muto/Shitbagwhore alone when he stops sucking giant balls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:leslie


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Bigelow/Goldberg sucked. More than half the match was Bigelow sat in a leg lock or a sleeper on Bill. YAWN.


----------



## Platt (Oct 20, 2004)

Sadly I agree was :mark: for the idea of them matching up but in reality it was just


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

This week's SD will have Shield/Bryan & Rhodes Dynasty II. :mark:


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Just downloaded all WWF 98 PPVs to watch with my friend, what did I get myself into?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A whole lot of punching. Tons & tons of it.

SummerSlam is worth the watch.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Oh, yay.. haha any matches I make sure I watch besides KOTR HIAC?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao just went on youtube to look for a match and on my homepage it actually asked me the question "Do you like The Undertaker?" . OF COURSE I DO. Now it's giving me a ton of Undertaker videos on the main page .

Right, about to get back on the ECW 2009 TRAIN WOOO WOOO so while I get back to my reviews for it, here are all my other ECW 09 reviews so far:



Spoiler: LOTS OF TEXT



Fuck it, I'll do an ECW 2009 Project instead of just a Christian ECW 2009 project!

Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 06/01/2009

Well, this is an awesome way to start things off! First ECW show of 09, first match too! Knew they had one in Feb and then NWO, but ANOTHER TV match? Sweeeet. Main event is Hardy Vs Henry too :mark:.

:lmao we see a Jeff Hardy fan (little kid, dressed like him) dancing like Hardy does when he comes out to the ring... to Finlay's babyface music. LOL. For some reason Finlay has an inflatable hammer with him that he throws into the crowd. Ok.

They go to the mat in the early going, as Swagger is the "wrestler" and Finlay can go to the mat with pretty much anyone anyway. Finlay despite being face still tries to grab the nose and hair of Swagger to break holds, and when he gets the chance on offence he has no problem hitting a stiff elbow and shit just for the hell of it. Hornswoggle gets smashed face first into the barricade. I smiled .

Swagger works over the arm of Finlay, and well it's a little dull tbh. He tends to sit in the hold rather than work it for the most part. Every now and then he'll crank on it but not nearly enough for my liking. At least Swagger keeps going to the arm any time Finlay attempts a comeback and Finlay sells it really well, so even if some of the arm work is a little boring, they still work it into the match really well so it's not a waste of time or anything.

Gutwrench Powerbomb and the #1 contender for the ECW title picks up another win. Good stuff. Could have been better, but even the slightly dull arm work doesn't bring it down too much thanks to everything else around it.

Rating: ***

Matt Hardy Vs Mark Henry - ECW 06/01/2009

How awesome is Henry's theme? SUMBODY GUNNA GET THEY ASS KICKED. SUMBODY GUNNA GET THEY WIG SPLIT. BEAT EM UP BEAT EM UP BREAK HIS NECK BREAK HIS NECK.

Henry dominates from the start, but on the outside Hardy is able to send Henry knees first into the steel steps, then take advantage in the ring with a little bit of leg work before Henry powers his way back in control. I seem to recall leg work being a big part of their great PPV match the previous year, right? I should check that out at some point, been ages since I saw it.

Henry sells the great great while on offence, even though Hardy hadn't done anything to it for a while. No short term selling from the WWE's Strongest Man (this was 2008... so WSM will have been... Mariusz Pudzianowski, with Big Z the Arnold Strongman winner for like the billionth time in a row. Henry would have NEVER won the 2002 competition had Big Z and any other credible strongmen been involved. What was I talking about?)

Henry is fine on offence, nothing overly special as he has a habit of sitting in a nerve grip hold, but he dishes out some goodness any time he's cutting Matt Hardy off. And he's STILL selling the leg which is awesome, and Matt every now and then sees a chance to hit it even if it doesn't get him back on top.

Nice little finishing stretch, and Henry loses clean to a Twist of Fate! Well, Matt IS the champion afterall! Good match, plenty to like.

Rating: ***1/4

Matt Hardy Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - ECW 13/01/2009

I'm a fan of their RR match, hoping this is at least as good. Don't see why it wouldn't be!

Real BIG MATCH feel to this one which I fucking love. Crowd are awesome, Swagger and Hardy both look confident and focused during the introductions which adds to it too, and yeah, this is really good. Swagger looks great from the get go just charging at Matt and taking the match straight to the mat where he's strongest, and unlike last week with Finlay, Hardy can't hang with him there. Hardy fires back though (and the crowd go nuts), and then Swagger clotheslines him off the apron in a real sweet cut off spot.

Swagger seems to have improved immensely since just LAST WEEK. Being there with Finlay no doubt helped a ton, and I wouldn't be surprised if Finlay went over shit afterwards to give him pointers. Swagger is more vicious here, which really puts over how much he wants the title, and how different a title match is compared to a non title match. He's going the extra mile here.

Hardy needs to be pimped too, because he's a great babyface and can take one hell of a beating. Great selling of the arm, something Swagger would really perfect over just the next few weeks. I definitely get why people were throwing Angle's name at him early on, as he really came in as a rookie, but with a great amateur record, and then every week you can literally see him improving, which is exactly like Angle. How he was in Jan of 2000 was completely different by Dec 2000. Swagger was doing the exact same until they fucked him up.

Awesome spot with Hardy escaping a superplex attempt into a sunset flip powerbomb, but Swagger tries to hold on to the turnbuckle pad. Hardy fights for it and hits the move, but the pad comes off, leaving the turnbuckle exposed. And of course, it comes into play for the finish. Love when little things like that pay off. Matt goes face first into it, then a Gutwrench Powerbomb later we have a NEW ECW Champion!

So yeah, this is great. GREAT. Swagger is impressive as hell. Hardy is awesome too. Great finishing stretch, and I do love the turnbuckle coming into play. Current ECW MOTY, but I already know its gonna be knocked down in a little over a month lol.

Rating: ****

Mark Henry Vs Finlay Vs The Miz Vs John Morrison - ECW 19/01/2009

Well half of this match is AWESOME :mark:. Would have preferred a singles match between Finlay and Henry instead though. Jiz and Moronson can fuck off.

On man, only 6 minutes for it? Bah.

Jiz and Moronson try to convince Finlay to join them to take on Henry... so Finlay punches both of them in the fucking face and attacks Henry himself. So the tag champs go after Finlay while Henry just stands around waiting for his moment and he fucking destroys the lot of them the moment he sees his chance.

Henry is just a monster here. Tag champs try to double team him... and it works... for about 30 seconds then he just swats them like flies. Sheleighly from Finlay to Henry's knees, because this is apparently No DQ lol. That's a good credible way at least to take Henry out of the match for a little while so Finlay can play FIP while the tag champs beat him down. :lmao at the commentators basically taking the piss out of The Miz by wondering what it would be like if he won a major title and main evented WM :lmao. If only they knew...

Mark doesn't like that he got attacked with the sheleighly, so when he gets back up he just walks out. Finlay gets back in control, then Moronson pins his own partner after Finlay did all the work.

Good match, even if it was 6 minutes. Henry was a beast, Finlay was good, and the tag champs didn't do anything awful (aside from the knee to the face from Moronson to Finlay at the end). Henry should have come back from the sheleighly attack and mauled everyone for the win though, would have been better.

Rating: **3/4

Jack Swagger Vs Matt Hardy – ECW Title - Royal Rumble 25/02/2009

ECW Title rematch, with Swagger now defending the title against the former champ! Remember when Swagger was seemingly destined for greatness? Then he got drafted to Raw. Went nowhere. Randomly won the WHC. Went nowhere. Lost the WHC. Went nowhere. Now he literally IS nowhere because he hasn’t been on TV in months. 

Hardy is aggressive early on, throwing some pretty sweet punches and really taking the fight to Swagger who beat Hardy for the title ending his near 5 month reign. Plus with Hardy making this match a FIGHT it gives him an advantage over the more “pure” wrestler in Swagger. Swagger knows this and after taking some time out on the floor to stop Hardy’s momentum, he goes right for a double leg takedown and manages to ground the former champ and begins to control the match. 

Nice basic story told really well by an underrated veteran in Hardy and a talented new comer in Swagger. A trip to the ring post doesn’t do Matt’s shoulder any favours, and the ECW champ goes after it like a shark that smells blood. Nice work here, though nothing compared to the arm work we would see from Swagger in his epic classic bout with Christian a month later. 

Great comeback from Matt with a nice moonsault for a great near fall, but another trip to the ring post takes him out for good, and Swagger lands the gutwrench powerbomb and its over. Good stuff. Matt looks visibly disappointed afterwards. 

Rating: ***

Finlay Vs Paul Burchill - ECW 27/01/2009

FINALLY, a worthwhile Burchill match. On paper, anyway. He's been wrestling jobbers and The Boogeyman all year so far.

TERRY FUNK NAME DROPPED.

Wonder how the incest angle would have gone down had they pulled the trigger on it with Paul and Katie Lea lol.

Burchill looks good, nice aggressive offence, and he goes to a bit of effort to work a sleeper rather than sit in it, but the Hornswoggle distraction allows Finlay to come back and get the win. Short match but solid for the time it got.

Rating: **

Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 27/01/2009

Well well, a Dreamer match I actually want to watch. A rare thing indeed. KILL HIM, MARK!

Dreamer is all "I LOVE ECW AND I HAS HEART" early on, attacking Henry straight on but getting absolutely nowhere lol. Loved Henry countering a roll up attempt by grabbing the arm and sitting on it. Strange to see Henry work a body part, he usually just powers a guy down then applies a submission hold, but here he does some decent arm work.

Typical Henry style match, with him using his power to control, then his opponent makes some comebacks, and he cuts them off until the finish. Sound basic on paper, but Henry does it really well, and Dreamer can at least bump around well for someone as FAT as him. Henry crushes him still. Fun.

Rating: **1/2

Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 03/02/2009

Finlay is great early on. Not like he gets worst or anything, but SHUT UP. Swagger goes to the mat, Finlay counters him... but instead of staying in control, lets Swagger up. And then SLAPS him in the face in hopes of turning this into a brawl where he'll have the advantage. All the while he has a smile on his face.

Swagger is getting frustrated as fuck that old man Dave is OUT WRESTLING him. And for anyone aware of Finlay's past, it is by no means stupid or anything, like say, HBK out wrestling Kurt Angle on the mat . That match (WM) had a similar story to open, with HBK trying to frustrate Angle by out wrestling him... only here its actually believable because Finlay can hang with the best of them legitimately. And Swagger does an awesome job with his facials and body language and shit to show that Finlay is GETTING TO HIM. GOTTEN TO.

Transition into Swagger's control segment is sweet. Swagger manages to hit an Irish Whip into the corner, using his power which is something he DOES have over Finlay. Finlay crashes HARD into the middle turnbuckle, hiring his back and his arm. Looked painful, and Finlay really sells it, going so far as to call the referee over to check on him. I get far too giddy over shit like this lol :lmao.

In the end Hornswoggle gets some revenge for Swagger attacking him last week, and Finlay capitalises and is the FIRST person to beat Jack Swagger!

Great match. Opening part with Finlay out wrestling Swagger looked great, transition spot was awesome, and Swagger did great on offence. Just behind the Swagger/Hardy match for me as far as ECW MOTY goes.

Rating: ***3/4

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW 10/02/2009

The "forgotten" match between them. Most forget that they wrestled before the awesomely epic 24/02 match. But they did! And it was the same night Christian returned. its christian. Gotta love the enthusiasm from the commentators. They HAD to have been told to play it down because Striker marks out for shite like Booker T. He probably wanted to blow his load the moment he saw Christian. Poor guy.

Both men have something to prove here tonight. Christian just made his return and needs to make an IMPACT following his last few years in IMPACT lol. Swagger suffered his first loss the previous week and he needs to get back to winning to show that he's the MAN on ECW, and to build momentum going into NWO on Sunday against Finlay, the man who beat him.

Hornswoggle and Finlay show up for commentary. Hornswoggle is more coherent than Booker T. And yes, this is before Santa granted him the ability to talk.

Match is very much back and forth rather than Swagger getting in any significant time in control, which I'm fine with. Perhaps he's off his game a little following last week, plus as I mentioned, Christian is out to prove shit now that he's returned. Neither men are wanting to lose any kind of control. Some sweet shit here too. Swagger press slamming Christian over the ropes to the floor was great. Christian's tornado DDT was awesome. A very competitive match overall.

Swagger tries to make use of an exposed turnbuckle like when he won the belt, but Hornswoggle and Finlay distract him allowing Christian to hit a Killswitch, and Swagger loses 2 weeks in a row!

Good match, but not even close to the level of their next one. Probably their "worst" bout, and not even close to being bad lol.

Rating: ***

Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW Title Match - No Way Out 15/02/2009

Been a long time since I saw this match, and despite their previous matches and the fact I'm a fan of both, I never liked it. Wonder if that will change.

The crowd REALLY don't give a fuck about this. Hate crowds like this that are dead unless someone is using a weapon or diving off a ladder.

Similar spot to their last match with Finlay crashing into the middle turnbuckle and getting hurt, allowing Swagger to target the arm of the Irishman.

I know I complained about the crowd, but I guess they have a point here. This IS kinda dull. I'm staring to think I won't like this much still once its over lol.

Match just feels really slow and sluggish, even when they pick up the pace at a couple of points. Hornswoggle randomly tries to get involved, but it distracts Finlay and Swagger picks up the win.

Wow. This wasn't good at all. The worst ECW match I've watched from 2009 so far, and its a PPV match lol.

Rating: *

Christian & Finlay Vs Jack Swagger & Mark Henry - ECW 17/02/2009

So I downloaded Christian's return ep in HD just to use a 1 second clip of it in my video last week lol, and fuck, decided to start getting all of 2009 in HD and eventually do a project. Think I'll start now, with a Christian in 2009 ECW project. He returned last week and faced Swagger, and I'll get to that later. Was just checking that this episode worked, and saw the main event announced and just HAD to fucking watch it. Its FINLAY. CHRISTIAN. 2009 SWAGGER. MARK HENRY. This could rule the world.

Henry and Christian to start. Henry powers Christian around, then Christian gets a slap in on Henry, and fuck, Henry just turns his head to look at Christian and you just KNOW he's gonna fuck shit up. But Christian has the quickness to escape and tag in Finlay, and eventually Swagger gets in too no doubt making Henry the big threat on the apron ready to come in and kill.

I like how Christian and Finlay tease a little dissension between them. They are babyfaces and nothing more; not friends, not an official tag team, and with Christian being the new #1 contender he's a threat to Finlay who also wants the ECW title. So these two have no reason to really get along beyond winning the match. Simple shit, but for some reason 99% of the time all babyfaces fucking love each other and it pisses me off, especially if one of them was a heel like a week before and tried to kill the babyface who is now hugging him or something. Nobody hugs me.

Finlay plays FIP which might seem odd as Christian is in the match, but Christian is the big returning babyface and will be facing Swagger for the title next week so it makes sense for Finlay to take the beating here to "protect" Christian. And hey, while Finlay is super awesome as a heel controlling a match, he's still a great FIP. Though you don't need to work hard when MONSTER HENRY is beating the shit out of you lol. Did we get a Finlay/Henry match on ECW in 09? That sounds boss on paper.

HENRY CAN SLAM NAILS INTO WOOD WITH HIS BARE HANDS.

HOT TAG. Some awesome Christian/Swagger stuff, and a couple of nice spots to keep Henry on the apron rather than coming in to help his partner against the fresh opponent. Then Finlay decks Henry with the sheleighly to get rid of him for good, and Christian can hit the Killswitch for the win.

Good tag match. I very much enjoyed it. Everyone looked good. Henry was a monster, Swagger came across as a young, powerful wrestler perhaps lacking in experience but made up for it in other ways, Finlay was a tough bastard and Christian was the returning babyface looking to get into the title picture. Some good action, some nice spots here and there and a cool finish building momentum for Christian going into the title match next week.

Rating: ***1/4

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 24/04/2009

HERE WE GO!

I honestly don't think I can write anything to truly do this match justice, or truly get across my adoration of this incredible contest. I loved it when it happened. I've watched it multiple times since... and it continues to only get BETTER in my eyes. This watch was no different. It is just an INCREDIBLE match.

Swagger is the young, confident champion with a great amateur background and a large frame allowing him to overpower most opponents. Christian is the wise veteran and perhaps the faster of the two, and their contrast in styles plays out BEAUTIFULLY here. Christian uses his speed to avoid certain situations, Swagger uses his power to bring himself back in control. We see some good old VETERAN INSTINCTS from the challenger sprinkled throughout the match as Christian will take advantage of ANY opportunity, no matter how small, and capitalise on it to the fullest extent.

Jack Swagger is known for working over the arm of his opponents, and never has he done it as well as he did here. It also helps that you have babyface Christian selling the arm to absolute perfection, and the great commentary from Matt Striker who really adds to the match with his explanation to things like Christian squeezing his fingers together to get the feeling back in his arm.

We see a couple of callback spots in the finishing stretch based on some things done earlier on, just another of the many things I love about this match. And of course it's Christian doing them, using those VETERAN INSTINCTS that I mentioned earlier to counter offence from Swagger that did damage to him earlier in the contest.

The arm work, the main focus of the match from Swagger, plays a huge part in the finish and that makes me giddy as fuck. Swagger retains the title, and I reach for a cigarette. Amazing how this just gets better and better every time. Few matches do that for me. HIAC does it. Flair/Windham BOTB II does it. And this does it. Also, its only around 13 minutes long. And yet it achieves more than most matches could dream of with 20+ minutes.

ECW MOTY, and I don't think anything is going to dethrone it. 2nd MOTY overall for WWE too. Also, the single greatest ECW match ever. New and old ECW.

Rating: ****1/2

Mark Henry Vs Santino Marella - Money in the Bank Qualifying Match - ECW 03/03/2009

Santino talks shit to Henry on the mic before the match. I think somebody gonna get their ass kicked.

Santino got his ass kicked. In about a minute lol. Fun for what it was. Henry squashing bitches is always awesome.

Rating: 1/4*

Christian, Finlay & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, The Miz & John Morrison - ECW 03/03/2009

Swagger and Dreamer to star things off. Swagger teases locking up a couple of times, then decides Dreamer is beneath him and tags out. To Miz. Someone on Dreamers level. Lol.

Finlay beating the shit out of Jiz :mark:. FINLAY USING THE RING APRON TO PERFECTION. Hornswoggle diving through the ropes onto the tag champs. They're even jobbing out to a midget. Awesome.

Dreamer ends up being FIP, and to his credit he bumps around nicely, especially when Swagger powers him around. Which is impressive because Dreamer is FAT. :lmao even Josh on commentary takes the piss. "Its hard to throw Dreamer up that high, but they did it".

Christian gets the hot tag and fuck, he's on a roll the moment he gets in the ring. Some real great action, and a nice blind tag finish too. Swagger once again pins Christian. Just another great main event for ECW.

Rating: ***

JTG Vs Shad Vs Vladimir Kozlov Vs Christian Vs William Regal Vs The Great Khali Vs R-Truth Vs Goldust Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Paul Burchill Vs Charlie Hass Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Ricky Ortiz Vs Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Kung Funaki - Tri-Branded Money in the Bank Qualifying Battle Royal - ECW 10/03/2009

Some quick eliminations early, with jobbers like Ortiz and Funkai and Kozlov and Khali all going out within a minute. Leaving us with mostly good talent. Nice to see Goldust and Regal here, can't wait for both to become full fledged ECW members later in the year :mark:.

Fuck me, break between entrances, then a break about 3 minutes in. LOL. 

Regal is BOSS when we come back though, he initiates a tower of doom, with him basically taking out the other 4 guys in the ring, leaving him standing alone. If only he didn't fail the wellness policy the year before, who knows how big he could have been .

Regal eliminates Dreamer. Suck it fatty. R-Truth is eliminated by Chavo Jr. How much does he suck?

Regal continues to be BOSS. He hits that awesome half nelson suplex on Chavo Jr and sends him crashing into Christian. Then he gets eliminated . Fucking CHAVO JR in the final 2? THIS IS BULLSHIT. At least Christian wins .

This only gets about 6 minutes, but once we get down to 5 guys and Regal gets chance to rule the world, its a lot of fun.

Rating: **

Christian & MVP Vs Mark Henry & Shelton Benjamin - ECW 17/03/2009

4 guys that will compete in the MITB Ladder Match at WM 25.

Sub 10 minute match here, but fun stuff. MVP gets dominated from the get go, and its mainly just MVP Vs Shelton, building up to their big match on the 500th SD for the US title later in the week.

Hot tag to Christian and the match gets awesome. Henry stays on the outside though, and gets taken out by a double team effort, but Tony Atlas causes a distraction and Pay Dirt to Christian for the win from Shelton. Solid match, but lacking in HENRY action.

Rating: **

Jamie Noble Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 17/03/2009

Bourne has been getting hype videos all year basically. This is his big return after injuring his ankle or something? He doesn't have much luck lol.

Noble is pretty much the perfect guy for Bourne to return against. Noble can bump like a champ, is completely unselfish in the ring, and when he needs to can create a nice control segment for himself to have Bourne gain sympathy.

Fun is the keyword once again here. Bourne showcase all the way, but against Noble its not just a random moves spotfest, so its good .

Rating: **

Paul Burchill Vs Finlay - ECW 17/03/2009

3 matches on one show I want to watch? I think this is a record lol! Nothing overly special so far, but all good stuff just had time constraints.

Huh, thought this was the main event (guess a segment could be left on the show though), and I expected it to get some decent time. Instead its under 5 minutes, but its FINLAY so its a good 5 minutes. Some nice nasty hard hitting offence from BOTH men. Burchill looks really good, and reminds me of Regal with some of his movements during this match. Finlay's comeback is great, and he picks up the win.

Dammit, Jiz & Moronson in their stupid segment show crap is the main event.

Rating: **1/2

Jack Swagger & Tyson Kidd Vs Tommy Dreamer & Evan Bourne - ECW 24/03/2009

Bourne came back last week. Tyson for the last few weeks has been mentioning Bourne in promos and shit. Dreamer says he wants to win the ECW title before his contract his up or he's retiring. Good pairings for a match imo .

Bourne and Tyson go at it to start, nice basic mat work to try and gain control until they spill to the outside and Natalya provides a distraction and Kidd and beat the fuck out of Bourne... until Bourne tags out. Seemed somewhat pointless that it didn't lead into a FIP section or anything, but whatevers, match is only like 2 minutes in. Still technically the babyface shine period, which becomes evident when Dreamer and Bourne clear house as we go to commercial.

We come back and Dreamer is taking a beating. He's good at doing that. SWAGGER FACTS. Reminds me of the Hardy facts we got during his entrance when he was a heel in 02/03. Swagger and Kidd do a nice job of trash talking Dreamer while they beat him down, makes the basic shit they were doing far more interesting. Hot tag, SSP, Bourne pins Kidd for the win.

Solid tag, not much else though.

Rating: **1/2

Christian & Finlay Vs Mark Henry & Kane - ECW 31/03/2009

Everyone has been praising Henry for finally "coming out of his shell" or some shit with his 2011 run... but fuck, was Henry ever not AWESOME? I saw a couple of his SD 02 matches... he was good. Some from Raw 03. Good. ECW 08 he was pretty sweet. ECW 09 so far he's doing great. SD 06 had a bunch of good stuff. Is it just because he was never that consistent/kept getting injured?

Any combination of guys in this match makes me :mark:. Finlay and Kane hitting each other is sweet. Christian using his speed against Kane and shit is cool. Henry against anyone is :mark:.

Henry laughing when he slams Finlay is awesome. Then he throws him into a corner and pummels him. I need to check out their singles matches from 08. Henry is just a fucking BADASS. If I didn't already know Punk winning MITB for a second year straight would begin his great heel turn and shit I'd be wanting HENRY to win. He dominates here and pins Christian, then takes out Kane just for the hell of it.

Good match, a ton of fun, especially if you love all 4 guys involved. Even if you don't like Kane much, he doesn't do anything that would be considered anywhere near bad.

Rating: ***

Mark Henry Vs Christian Vs Finlay Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 07/04/2009

Oh sweet jesus I think I came. What a match. If only they could have put someone else in there rather than Dreamer. Still, I'm super happy with this one :mark:. Hope it doesn't suck!

Ok, so whoever gets pinned in this match is eliminated, and next week its a triple threat between the final 3. Someone loses that match, and we get a singles match between the final 2, and the winner faces Swagger at Backlash.

Henry early on it just in full on BEAST MODE. He even looks awesome when he gets taken out of the match for a little while, as it takes all 3 of his opponents just to suplex him, then take him out of the ring, then throw him into the stairs.

Dreamer literally just disappears at one point. I *think* I saw him jump off the apron... but I don't really know what he did. If he jumped on Henry... then why was he so hurt? Henry didn't do anything I don't think because he's still down and out when Dreamer gets back in again. LOL.

Henry gets back in and just murders Dreamer with a clothesline. Then Christian takes him down, goes for a cover, and Henry powers out of it and throws Christian right into a cover on Dreamer. Awesome little spot.

WSS attempt on Dreamer, shot to Henry's head with the sheleighly, and Finlay pins him. Booo . Henry should have kept going dammit.

Great stuff.

Rating: ***1/4

John Morrison Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 14/04/2009

Draft happened last week. So would this be the awesome match people were pimping like a motherfucker back in the day? I remember liking it but nowhere near the level or everywhere else.

Holy mother of fuck. Bourne takes some KILLER bumps. Leg sweep on the apron folds him up all nasty, and he takes 2 running knees to the face following it that look REGAL nasty.

Morrison looks like a fucking BOSS on offence here. Seriously. Shocked me too. He works over Bourne real fucking nicely, Bourne has some cool unique counters and comebacks, and Morrison is great at cutting him off. Some more nasty strikes from both of them, with Bourne wrestling like he's back in ROH at times too with some of his STIFF SHOTS.

Fucking PERFECTLY timed crossbody from Bourne to Morrison who was just about to run the ropes, so they go over the top instead. He literally hit him with the move the moment Morrison's back hit the ropes.

They both sell the match well the further it goes, and they really work the spots into the match well too. This is just a fucking great match, definitely something I wish I'd re-watched before. A top ECW 09 match for sure.

Rating: ****

Finlay Vs Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 14/04/2009

Time for this Backlash #1 contenders match thingy to continue! Really would have liked Henry to have made it through. Christian beating Henry in the final would have been a nice momentum builder for him I think.

No Henry = no BEAST to truly dominate the match, so its a real back and forth match for the most part, with everyone taking turns at being in control. I like how they don't just do the typical "take on guy out, 2 wrestle in the ring" shit. They DO have Christian stay on the outside half way into the match leaving Finlay and Dreamer 1 on 1, but Finlay actually takes the time to go back outside and take Christian out again so he has a REASON to remain there for so long.

Dreamer looks really good here, something that definitely surprised me because I've never thought much of Dreamer at all. His old ECW matches, pretty much all of his stuff in WWE etc, but he has been far from bad thus far in his ECW 09 run, and he had a great No DQ match or something with Swagger in late 08 that I would go as far as to say it's Dreamer's best match.

Nice finishing stretch with the 3, and while Christian is tied up in the ropes, Finlay beats Dreamer. Christian Vs Finlay next week :mark:.

Great match. Awesome show to have this and Morrison/Bourne on it. This title chase match thingy had produced 2 great matches out of 2 so far. Christian/Finlay should be great too. Then Christian/Swagger at Backlash? Fuck yes.

Rating: ***1/4

Finlay Vs Christian - Superstars 16/04/2009

So the finals of the ECW title chase match... takes place on SUPERSTARS. Bah. Well, it was the FIRST Superstars show ever (well, first of the new version of it), and between this match and Undertaker appearing, they wanted to make it a big show. Compliment to Christian and Finlay .

Great non stop action here. Both guys are just desperate to win so they can go to Backlash and wrestle Swagger for the ECW title. Everything they do looks nasty and hard hitting with neither man gaining any kind of advantage. Then Christian is able to hit the Killswitch OUTOFNOWHERE and fuck, Finlay looks like he went head first into the mat for real. It was pretty short, but they packed so much into with due to the fast pace without making it a spot fest or any of that shit. Good but a little disappointing at the same time.

Rating: **3/4

Paul Burchill Vs Evan Bourne - 21/04/2009

Seriously, Burchill looks like a fat Drew McIntyre. Its uncanny.

Burchill wrestlers a Regal-esque match, only not as good obviously, but he looks nice and nasty with his offence, and Bourne is a perfect guy to really bump and sell this shit. Incredible overhead butterfly suplex from Burchill.

Another awesome version of an overhead suplex from Burchill. Makes me mark out a little . Only real problem with Burchill is that he does a ton of rest holds. He DOES work the holds a little, but he seems to do far too many in one match. A little bit of variety would be nice.

Things manage to pick up when Bourne makes a comeback, and he looks great doing so. Finish falls a little flat, and the crowd weren't really into the match at all, but I quite liked it for the most part. Just needed less rest holds.

Rating: **1/4

Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - Backlash 26/04/2009

:mark: I get so giddy when I have to watch a match between these two. I kinda hope Swaggs wins the WHC at WM and Christian returns so they can feud over that belt too. Maybe Swagger can get back into his grove that he never really had once he left ECW.

Ohhh man, that press slam. We get a standard opening to this match, with Swagger going to the mat straight away, Christian countering with his speed and VETERAN INSTINCTS and things are even. Standard but still good. And then Swagger out of nowhere just fucking POWERS Christian over his head and launches him over the turnbuckle and right to the floor. Great move, sick bump. 

Nice to see Swagger go after the mid-section in this match, which was obviously hurt with the press slam AND sets up nicely to the Gut Wrench Powerbomb. Plus, while his arm work is usually really good in matches, variety is always nice .

Just some great sequences from these two here, usually cut off spots by Swagger whenever Christian looks to have an opening. And of course they all work nicely into his mid-section work . 

Watching Christian not just in matches with Swagger, but on ECW in general, really makes me wonder WHY Vince doesn't think more of him. He doesn't need to put the title on him and give him a 400+ day reign, but fuck, put him against anyone and he'll make them look great and put him against a champion and he'll make them look like the greatest of all fucking time. Swagger in 09 looked like a top 5 guy in the company. On the C show. After being on TV for about 6 months. Christian was a HUGE part in making him look so good for so long.

Finish to this is awesome, and again, its those VETERAN INSTINCTS from Christian that allows him to out cheat the champion, and finally dethrone him!

So this whole match was awesome, and I'm so glad at how different it was. I honestly thought it was another match focused around the arm (which I would have still fucking loved), so it was a nice surprise to see them wrestle a completely different match from before, and do almost as good. Almost, but not quite. Their Feb match is held on such a high standard by me that any match getting close to it would have to be equally as awesome. And that isn't a knock on this match because it IS awesome, just not as awesome as that match lol. Which says a lot again about their Feb match.

Rating: ****

Tyson Kidd Vs Finlay - ECW 28/04/2009

Well hello there . Never thought I'd be this excited over a Tyson Kidd match!

Finlay takes Tyson to SCHOOL early on, showing up the cocky young punk by out wrestling him, then beating him down with his smash mouth style.

Kidd gets a break when he manages to damage the leg of the fighting Irishman, and between Finlay's great selling and attempts at escaping leg holds, and Kidd screaming shit like "I'LL BREAK HIS LEG!!", it might very well be the best control segment Tyson Kidd has ever done!

In the end, Finlay's sheleighly works against him as Tyson Kidd uses it to smash his knee and pick up a win (while nearly taking out a fan when he threw the sheleighly out of the ring lol).

This is pretty bossy. I always go into Finlay matches expecting something good, but wasn't sure how Kidd would do. I was pleasantly surprised with how well he worked. Good stuff!

Rating: ***

Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 28/04/2009

If Dreamer doesn't win the ECW title by the time his contract runs out, he isn't going to renew it. Didn't need more of a reason to root for Christian, but it's always nice to have something else .

Match is pretty slow in the early going, with both men just feeling each other out, not really going for the big moves or anything. Then they each tease hitting their finisher, and go back to taking things slow as now they know it could all end in a second if they make one mistake, so they need to be careful.

Wow, this whole match just kinda plods along. Never picking up. Dreamer does absolutely nothing worth a damn in this whole thing. Christian is Christian, so he's good, but fuck Dreamer ain't doing SHIT. Show is in MSG, fucking New York, and honestly they don't give a fuck about Dreamer or the match which really doesn't help either. Then Swagger comes in and takes both guys out. Thank god. Gonna be hard to beat this as the worst Christian ECW 09 match (a certain ladder match is a potential candidate though, as well as any matches with Ryder...).

Rating: *1/2

Christian Vs Mark Henry - ECW 05/05/2009

:mark: :mark: :mark: Well this should make up for Christian/Dreamer the week before!

Oh you motherfucking fucker. Swagger shows up to ruin this . Was looking good too; Henry was a monster. Christian was fighting from the bottom. Started a comeback. Swagger ruined it. And then Dreamer makes the save and... oh god no. Tag team match.

Rating: **

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Mark Henry & Jack Swagger - ECW 05/05/2009

This could be ***** and I don't think I'd give a shit right now. I was so excited at Christian/Henry .

Dreamer was surprising me in the matches I watched that he was involved in thus far on my ECW run. Then that Christian match happened and he looked terrible. And fuck, he looks really bad in this too. Coldest hot tag ever from him, thankfully Christian comes in and generates some excitement before Henry just runs him over and we get a GOOD FIP from him.

TORNADO SLOP DROP! Aka a reverse Tornado DDT lol. Good old Striker with his mid-90's WWF references . SO yeah, this one got really good the moment Christian tagged in and Dreamer kept his fat ass on the apron. :lmao the guy looks like he's about the fucking CRY as he waits for a hot tag from Christian. Speaking of, anyone else really hate his crying "I LOVE ECW" promos? Supposed to make him sound passionate and shit but they always feel so damn forced to me.

So Dreamer gets the hot tag, and does the best work he's done all night. Christian getting caught in a WSS position only for Dreamer to roll off the apron to provide Christian with enough weight to take Henry down was great. Why couldn't Dreamer be good the entire time? Lazy fuck.

Swagger pins Dreamer. I am pleased. Match turned out good, though I still wanted my Henry Vs Christian match .

Rating: **3/4

Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 12/05/2009

Time for Dreamer to pay for sucking lately. BEAT HIM HIM AND BREAK HIS NECK MARK.

MARK HENRY HAS LEGS THE SIZE OF PEOPLE. That might be my favourite non Dusty commentary line EVER.

Henry beats the fuck out of Dreamer. Nothing to dislike here at all lol. Dreamer's comeback is hilariously bad. That "E! C! W!" thing he does makes him look like a retard, and then when he runs into the corner for a dropkick... I'd be faster walking, let's put it that way :lmao. He hits the DDT, but Henry gets his foot on the ropes, then gets back to his feet and murders the heart and soul of ECW with a WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM.

This was good, mainly because Dreamer barely got anything in until right at the end and that was only for about 30 seconds.

Rating: **

Tyson Kidd Vs Finlay - ECW 12/05/2009

I'll happily take another match between these two . Natalya has been banned from ringside because... she distracted the ref in their last match? I don't remember nor care. FINLAY.

Finlay controls the match early on, looking great as usual. He works the arm, and there's a great little spot where Finlay smiles and says "come on" to Kidd, begging him to try to escape, so Kidd smashes him in the face with an elbow shot! Their last match revolved around Kidd working the leg of Finlay, and it was successful, so he tries the same thing again here.

Finlay keeps managing to avoid the leg work, and they end up just doing some hard hitting shit to each other on the outside before Kidd manages to smash Finlay into the ring steps and injure his arm.

Decent enough arm work, not as good as the leg stuff from a few weeks ago. Nice comeback from Finlay, selling the arm all the way, then when he's about to hit the Celtic Cross, DAVID HART SMITH shows up to bore me to death... I mean help Kidd and they double team Finlay.

Good match overall.

Rating: **1/2

Christian Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Judgment Day 17/05/2009

This is their last singles match ever, right? I don't recall them having another match on ECW or anywhere else following this. Am I forgetting something? I remember very little about this one. In fact, I only remember who wins.

Christian shows us some nice progression in this series right from the get go, avoiding all of Swagger's attempts to take this to the mat and attempting to turn this into a brawl. I like how Swagger went for that press slam the first time he got his hands on Christian too, but Christian was able to avoid that too.

Christian really on his game so far, not letting Swagger get much in at all. He's the champ in this match and HE is the one trying to dictate the pace of the match. But Swagger still has all that power, and fuck, another great spot with said power that launches Christian from his shoulders back first into the ring post. Awesome.

Speaking of great spots, Swagger goes for the Vader Bomb move in the corner, and Christian gets his knees up... but Swagger essentially gives himself a CODE BREAKER by going head first :lmao.

Swagger really doesn't get too much in here, even though he works over Christian's back and mid-section. Christian seems to be more confident and resilient now he's champion, and he really is one step ahead of Swagger in this bout. Any time Swagger looks to get on a role, Christian will find a counter or will out-smart or out-maneuver the rookie. Might seem like a weird match structure, but I really like it. Shows how their series has progressed and how they as wrestlers have progressed too. Swagger was the young, cocky rookie who rolled over everyone, became champion and was dominating. Christian is the veteran who made his return and was looking to make an impact. They battled and eventually Christian won in a hard fought match. Now the confidence of Swagger might not be as high, while Christian is on top of his game.

Finish see's Christian once again out-cheating Swagger to pick up the win. Really good match, but certainly a step behind their previous title matches.

Rating: ***1/4

Christian Vs Paul Burchill - ECW 19/05/2009

Ooooo, this looks rather interesting indeed. But I'm half expecting Swagger to interfere, though he did just shove Christian off the ramp on his way to the ring so maybe that was enough for tonight. Christian's knee is bothering him following the fall. BULLSEYE and all that shizzle.

Christian looks great in the beginning as he works around his injury, avoiding taking any further damage and trying to ground Burchill to prevent any major threat. 

Of course with a bad wheel he can only avoid a guy like Burchill for so long, and once Paul gets the chance, he's working over the champ's leg. Burchill does fine, but it's Christian's selling that is carrying the match no doubt. All the little things he does like pushing Paul off him during a cover rather than kicking out, only using one leg to jump off the ropes for a sunset flip etc. Things that a lot of people, good sellers too, probably wouldn't do. They'd do things as normal then sell the effects after, which is fine, but Christian turns "fine" selling into "best in the world" kind of selling.

In the end the ECW champ picks up the win. Good match for sure, and while Burchill carried his weight, Christian is the star no doubt, and when he gets the chance to shine he can shine brighter than almost anyone.

Rating: ***

Finlay Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 19/05/2009

Last week on ECW, Smith debuted on ECW and attacked Finlay. Now Finlay wants to kill him. Yey!

Finlay is awesome. Point of the elbow to the bridge of the nose of Smith, immediately followed it up by stomping on the hand. WOS match between Finlay and Bulldog brought up. I should watch that. Would be cool to see how different it is to this match with Bulldog's son.

Well... this is... something. I'm BORED during a Finlay match. And it's not entirely Smith's fault like you would assume. Finlay is working a keylock... and he's just... sitting there. Doing nothing. And neither is Smith. And it lasts what seeems like a stupidly long amount of time. Things actually pick up with Smith gains control. Bulldog style powerslam on the floor, then Smith becomes aggressive and beats the fuck out of Finlay for a little while.

And then it goes back to boring as this match seems to last WAY too long and Smith isn't that great at being in control for more than like 30 seconds :lmao.

Smith wins with a back suplex. What is this, early 90's HBK? There was a shot with a boot too. Doesn't make it that much better. This was booooring and not that good at all.

Rating: 1/2*

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 26/05/2009

OMG THIS COULD BE THE MOST AWESOME THING EVER.

Fun cat and mouse shit at the start, then Henry just fucking runs over Bourne and he probably could have pinned him there and it would have been a legit finish.

Bourne tries a comeback with some quick kicks... so what does the POWERFUL Henry do? ROUNDHOUSE KICKS BOURNE IN THE HEAD. That'll teach you for kicking him, you little shit!

Some of the most awesomely brutal back breaker submission spots in this match too. Henry just pushing Bourne down onto his knee following a back breaker looked so deadly. Bourne's comebacks with knee strikes and kicks look great every time. 

Finish is great too. Henry LOSES by countout, following some great sequences by Bourne, who was able to make it back into the ring by jumping on Henry's back and diving back into the ring! This was tremendous for the time it got.

Rating: ***1/4

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, Tyson Kidd & David Hart Smith - ECW 26/05/2009

Dreamer is perhaps THE most entertaining he's ever been in his entire career earlier in the night. Tiffany was in the ring telling Swagger and Christian of a triple threat match for the title at the next PPV, and all the time she was talking, Dreamer was strutting around like Flair, waving, grinding and flexing :lmao. I have no idea why, but it was AWESOME.

Urgh, I hope Smith doesn't do much in this match. Finlay was supposed to be in this, but he got involved in a fight between Christian & Dreamer in the back and hurt his eye so he can't compete. I thought he was supposed to be a tough Irish bastard?

This is pretty fucking sweet. Plenty of time, nice babyface shine, then Dreamer gets murdered for a good while. Swagger does a lot of the work, so Kidd and Smith only stay in for short periods, cutting any of their shit down to a minimum. They really do a great job of killing Tommy.

Finish reminds me of the awesome 24/2 match, as Swagger launches Christian shoulder first into the ring post then follows up with a massive Gut Wrench Powerbomb. Then Dreamer gets beat up some more after the bell. Yey.

Great match.

Rating: ***1/4

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 02/06/2009

Rematch :mark:

Similar start to last week, only Bourne gets a little offence in first before Henry runs him the fuck over just the same.

Henry is just such a fucking incredible monster. Why they ever made him a babyface is beyond me. He is MADE to crush everyone that gets in his way. He's just so fucking awesome here. Works over Bourne's back again. Love how at one point he just strolls over to Bourne who is down on the mat, and drops his knee onto his back then walks away smiling.

EPIC fall away slam too. And then Tony Atlas gets involved and Henry is DQ'd and this ends before it can reach the levels of last week. Henry starts screaming at Tony. Looks like they gonna split up. There'd BETTER BE a third match next week. Should have happened on PPV, since Extreme Rules is coming up at the end of the week.

Rating: **3/4

Christian Vs Tyson Kidd - ECW 02/06/2009

Great dynamic between the two here, with Tyson as the young "technical" expert and Christian the wise old veteran using his experience to counter Kidd's technique and skill as much as possible. Then a bump into the steel steps puts a hold on Christian's momentum and Kidd works over Christian nicely.

Fucking sweeeeeet counter from a front dropkick by Kidd into a sit out powerbomb by Christian.

:lmao at Swagger when he comes out. Looks like some old movie villain creepy up on Christian :lmao. Chaos on the outside with Dreamer coming out to even the odds and take down Swagger and Smith, and Christian manages to keep it together and pick up the win. This was good. Christian rules. Kidd looked great. Chaos at the end was nice and didn't distract from the match in any way, so yey to that too.

Rating: ***1/4

Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Extreme Rules 07/06/2009

ECW Rules match... or Extreme Rules match... or Hardcore match... or Street Fight... or No Holds Barred... yeah it's one of those matches .

Swagger looks good at the start, using his power and wrestling ability to keep it one on one in the ring and things going his way. Then Christian and Dreamer both go under the ring and bring out weapons to beat the shit out of the All American American.

:lmao Swagger gets knocked out of the ring at one point and nearly lands inside a trash can. I'd have given this ***** if he landed in it rather than just his arm going in .

Dreamer does shit with weapons, but the best parts of this are clearly Swagger/Christian. Callback spots from their previous matches including a big press slam (not to the outside though), and the turnbuckle cover being removed which I'm hoping will come back later in the match for a pay off. 

Some really fun spots in this match, most of them based on moves they already do, only this time using weapons to aid them, which I like over something random. Bit where Christian does his springboard crossbody from the inside to the floor and ends up colliding with a trash can thanks to Swagger is sweet. Christian looks like he's DEAD afterwards too.

Yey, exposed turnbuckle comes into play . Swagger drops Christian on it, goes for the Powerbomb, only to be stopped by Dreamer and DDT'd! Dreamer gets the win and becomes the NEW ECW Champion and his contract is renewed. Yey?

Fun fun fun fun fun fun fun. Fun. This match is fun. Good too, but mainly fun. I liked it a lot. Was a little worried it would be shit (Dreamer being involved and all), but nope, good. And fun. Dreamer cries some more. He's the ECW version of Ric Flair.

Rating: ***1/4

Tony Atlas Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 09/06/2009

:lmao at Tony Atlas's ring attire. Even the monster badass Henry is laughing and smiling at him on their way to the ring.

So Atlas is doing this to make up for costing Mark a match last week against Bourne. Not much to say about this, other than... it isn't bad! In any way! Not great either, but considering you have a HOF Tony Atlas wrestling at least 15 year after his prime, it's good. Bourne makes him look good, gets some good offence in of his own, then picks up the win with a SSP.

Henry attacks Bourne after the match (they get their 3rd match next week, right?), and leaves Atlas behind.

Rating: **

Christian & Jack Swagger Vs The Hart Dynasty - ECW 09/06/2009

So Dreamer was supposed to be Christian's tag partner, but he was crying and shit as usual because he won the title and Christian put him through a table to shut him up. Something like that. So Tiffany in all her hotness... uhhh I mean wisdom... makes Swagger the new partner of Christian.

Christian starts, looks good, tags in Swagger who wrestles with Tyson then... shoves Christian off the apron to tag him . Swagger looks pleased with himself. They've never had Swagger as a face in WWE yet, have they? He's been around for over 4 years now, kinda surprised they haven't randomly switched him face and back to heel and face again before going back to heel like they do with so many other people. Maybe him being a face is the key to... people giving a shit about him? I dunno.

Thankfully this match is under 10 minutes long so we don't get too much of Smith or Kidd sitting in rest holds. Decent enough work over on Christian, then Christian builds momentum... goes to tag Swagger... and punches him in the face instead and goes back to single handedly taking apart the Hart Dynasty!

Killswitch attempt, Swagger prevents it, Hart Attack, and Christian gets pinned. This was a solid match. Nothing amazing, but nothing close to being bad.

Rating: **1/2

Christian Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 16/06/2009

Replay of the finish to the tag match last week. I swear Josh says "Shrack Jagger" at one point too.

God I hope Christian can drag Smith to a good match. Finlay wasn't even capable of it though.

The power of Smith shows itself early on, so Christian being the smart VETERAN slaps the young rookie in the face to get him angry and draws him into the corner where Christian uses his speed to move out of the way and go for a quick cover. A lot of the opening is nice little things like that, as Christian keeps using his experience to counter the power of Smith. And then Smith hits a Rock Bottom like move from the apron to the floor (looked like Christian was supposed to land on the apron... but missed and went straight to the floor lol). This gives Smith the opening he needs to ground Christian and work over the back.

Christian makes a bunch of neat little comebacks, sells the back, and continues to use his speed and experience to try and create an opening. Nice clothesline cut off spot from Smith at one point too.

In the end though, no matter how experienced Christian is, the numbers game with Kidd and Natalya on the outside allows Smith to pick up the win through cheating. BIG win for Smith no doubt. Christian made him look great. Then Finlay comes out to make the save when they look to beat Christian up after the bell. SCARDY CAT chants from some people in the front row lol.

FINLAY DECKS CHRISTIAN! SINGLES MATCH BETWEEN THEM? PLEEEEEAAAAASE? PWEEETTTTTYYY PWEEEEAAASSEEE?

Rating: ***

Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 16/06/2009

YES! YES! YES! YES! :mark: 

Was worried we wouldn't get a third match between them. But we are. Yey! 

Bourne's ribs are taped up following the attack last week. Oh man, this should be good :mark:. Maybe I'm hyping myself up too much. Hope not. :mark:

:mark: yey this is awesome. Bourne is just desperate to try and take Henry down and keep him down, constantly using big strikes to do what he can, but Henry keeps powering him around and shit. Bourne sells the ribs like a champ, and Henry does great as the unstoppable monster taking a beating and swatting the fly. Awesome counter into the WSS at the end. Henry finally gets his win over Bourne. 4th match? 

Rating: ***

Jack Swagger Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 16/06/2009

These two had a great Extreme Rules match in 08 (that I really should go watch again) that I honestly thought was the greatest match Dreamer has ever had. Doubt it would change too much on a re-watch. But anyway, because of that match, this has potential. Hope it delivers!

Back and forth in the beginning, then Dreamer builds momentum only to get powerslamed on the floor. They go to commercial... and THIS is the first thing we see when they come back:










:lmao

Swagger doesn't stay in control for too long, instead they go into a pretty nice back and forth finishing stretch for the last 5 minutes of the match. God I still fucking hate Dreamer with his "aaarrrgghhhh" scream when he holds out his arms and shit. Just comes across so fucking fake and forced.

Dreamer goes to the ropes, and it proves to be a mistake as he missed and Swagger rolls him up for the 3. He gets an ECW title match! Good match, then FINLAY shows up again and decks Dreamer. He is pissed that he got injured trying to break up a fight between Dreamer and Christian a few weeks ago. Christian shows up and now all 4 of them brawl, but Finlay is the last man standing!

Rating: **3/4

Evan Bourne Vs Tyson Kidd - ECW 23/06/2009

Well, it's no Henry/Bourne, but I'll live with it. For now.

Right from the start, Smith and Natalya try to get involved, but the ref stops them and ejects them from ringside! Now we can get a one on one match, and it certainly has potential for fun.

Bourne still has though injured ribs, so the basic story of this match is already there; Kidd attacks the ribs. Simple and effect, and Bourne selling and playing the FIP works every time. 

This is fairly short, so Bourne gets beaten down a little, makes some comebacks, sells the ribs, then gets the win. Nothing much to it really, but Bourne looked good throughout at least.

Rating: **

Finlay Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 23/06/2009

Well it was bound to happen. Ryder on ECW was bound to face someone I like a ton, so I guess I have to watch some of his matches. Even if he is a useless twat with a horrible gimmick.

Finlay takes this boy to fucking SCHOOL. Plenty of stiff shots. Ryder gets in control after they both bump heads, and Finlay's eye gets caught.

Ryder does a nice job of working over the eye at least, one particular point where he looks like he's trying to gouge it out for real lol. Some stupid shit too from him though... like a sleeper hold... and you can see Finlay's face while he's in it, and he's looking up at Ryder with a confused look on his face thinking "the fuck are you doing? go after the EYE you tit!" :lmao.

Finlay wins with... uhhhh... a strange not quite low blow into a pin. Not sure what happened tbh. Good match, probably one of the better Ryder matches... ever.

Rating: **1/2

Jack Swagger & Mark Henry Vs Christian & Tommy Dreamer - ECW 23/06/2009

These 4 along with Finlay will be in a SCRAMBLE match on Sunday at THE BASH~! with the ECW title on the line. Looks pretty awesome on paper, and I do like the Scramble match, which we'd get another tbh.

Fun babyface shine period at the start, which ends with Dreamer doing that rolling thing off the apron to Henry and Christian hitting a crossbody to Swagger on the outside. Commercial break and we get some Swagger/Christian :mark:. Those two are just so great tog... tag to Dreamer. Bah! Lol.

So Dreamer takes a beating, and Henry is awesome any time he's in the ring. Love him coming in behind the ref's back to clobber Dreamer.

:lmao Swagger makes a tag while Christian is trying to turn Henry over for a sunset flip. Henry's reaction is awesome. KILLSWITCH. Tony Atlas puts Swagger's foot under the ropes, so Christian decks him and Dreamer launches himself at him. Henry smashes Christian back first into the ring post, Gut Wrench Powerbomb... and DREAMER STANDS ON THE APRON WAITING FOR A TAG (HIS ARM OUT AND EVERYTHING) AND JUST LETS THE 3 COUNT HAPPEN. So Henry kills him for being stupid. Then takes out Swagger. ALL HAIL KING HENRY.

This was good. Nothing more. Finish was the best thing tbh.

Rating: **3/4

Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian Vs Mark Henry Vs Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW Title Scramble Match - The Bash 28/06/2009

:mark: Christian and Swagger starting this thing off. Standard but good stuff from them, never getting into a high gear since it's not a one on one match between them. Finlay is next in and he runs down to the ring and begins to clothesline the shit out of both men already there.

Swagger gets the first pin in the match becoming the sort of ECW champion but not officially the ECW champion when he pokes Finlay in the eye (Finlay just came back from an eye injury remember) and rolls him up. No surprise that Swagger got the first pin, because after all he's the favourite due to his extensive knowledge on PINFALLS being an amateur wrestler... opposed to Christian who's been wrestling professionally for over a decade, and Finlay who's been wrestling amateur and professionally since the beginning of time...

Fatty Dreamer next in, and he needs to pick up a win so he can retain his title and then just prevent anyone else from getting a win. What the fuck happened to Dreamer? He started the year off in ECW looking... well pretty good... but once he got closer to the ECW title and then finally won it... he's become his old useless, slow, tubby self who can barely take a decent bump. And I still fucking hate his "E!C!W!" schtick. So fucking forced and he looks like he can't even be arsed.

FINLAY WINS! Can we end the match now? No? Damn. MARK HENRY ENTERS THE MATCH. He causes some chaos the moment he enters the ring. Clothesline to Dreamer, then powerbombs Swagger off the ropes which causes Swagger to also hit a superplex to Christian who lands on Dreamer. Press Slam to Christian on the floor, then WSS to Dreamer and MARK FUCKING HENRY wins the title sort of but not quite. With less than 5 minutes left of the match now, everyone but Dreamer (who is still dead from the WSS) attack Henry and send him out of the ring so they have any kind of chance of pinning someone to win the title before the clock runs out.

Everyone takes turns at diving off the ropes to the outside... so HENRY begins to climb!!! Instead he gets his knee clipped and takes a Sagger Bomb (Vader Bomb... the thing from the ropes not the powerbomb that was also called the Vader Bomb at times.. god that was confusing back then) and Swagger pins Henry! Dammit, Henry should have won.

Swagger as champ would be fine with me though... dammit Dreamer got another pin. He's back as the fucking champ. Fat piece of talentless shit.

Everyone SCRAMBLES to make a pin (ha, get it? Scramble? In a Scramble match? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) but the time runs out and Fatty Dreamer retains his bloody title. Bah.

Fun match though. Don't think it was as good as the one from 08 where Hardy won, but then again I haven't seen that in years.

Rating: ***

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs William Regal & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 30/06/2009

15 man trade on Raw made by Donald Fart. We lost Henry and Swagger . But gained Regal . And then a bunch of... uhhh... other people. Sheamus had a squash match earlier. He looked weird with his hair being spiked up still... but twice as long. And while I'm not one for wanting (male) wrestlers to have tight attire... Sheamus' looked like it was so loose they could fall down around his ankles. I'd rather stare at his bulge through some tight pants than stare at it with nothing covering it. Not that I intentionally stare at Sheamus' or any other man's bulge. But sometimes it's just like... THERE IN YOUR FACE.

So ECW isn't looking as good atm with some of the better guys being moved to Raw and ECW only really getting Regal that's of any worth atm. Is Finlay gone too? Did we get Goldust yet? Anyone like, give me a list of all the people who moved and where they moved to? I would very much appreciate it and I promise I won't look at your bulge.

Well lets focus on the positives here. CHRISTIAN VS REGAL. Shame Fatty Dreamer and Vladimir Fuckov are involved in this one.

Christian does all the work early on, taking on both Regal and Fuckov, managing to keep control of the match for his team. They go to commercial... and when we come back Dreamer has somehow fucked it all up by simply getting in the ring because he's getting mauled. Useless fat twat.

Great little spot where Dreamer bounces off the ropes and slaps Regal's chest, so Regal just NUTS him for being a twat. Christian gets tagged back in and he ends up having his shoulder fucked up and thus the awesome arm selling of Christian can make his match good again after Dreamer stunk it up . Striker tells everyone to rub themselves at home. Sick bastard.

Regal is a nice vicious bastard attacking the arm, and Christian is a great seller. So they ruin that by leaving Vlad and Fatty in the ring for a little bit. :lmao what the FUCK is Dreamer doing? He goes to the ropes for a diving clothesline I think it was... but before he hit it he did... something with his hands... looked like they were spazzing out and he couldn't control them. God what a goofy twat he is.

Regal takes out Christian on the outside, then comes in and fucking mauls Dreamer, only for Vlad to blind tag in and take the win for himself. Regal seems pleased. BEGINNING OF THE RUTHLESS ROUNDTABLE.

Mostly a really good match. Vlad and Dreamer brought it down a little, but not too much thankfully. 

Rating: ***1/4

Christian Vs Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 07/07/2009

I hope this one match a week I want to see isn't gonna become a regular thing now. And honestly I don't REALLY want to see Vladimir Kozlov in a match, but dammit it's CHRISTIAN and I have to watch all his matches because he's awesome.

:lmao Fatty Dreamer on commentary (winner of this faces him for the title at Night of Champions), and fuck me, now he's trying to be a real commentator and forcing shitty lines out. Urgh. Does this guys' suckage know no bounds?

"I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY MY BODY LOOKS LIKE A BAG OF MILK, BUT I HAVE BRUISES COVERED IN IT" ... uhhh... WHAT? Just shut the fuck up and fuck off you fat useless twat. My god, THIS GUY is the champion? And people have the nerve to talk shit about Swagger and his goofiness?

:lmao even Striker and Josh (it is Josh Matthews right?) are taking the piss out of Dreamer and calling him out on giving shit answers to their questions.

Some of this match feels like a predecessor to Christian/Zeke at the RR next year, with Vlad working over the back of Christian, only not nearly as well (aside from one sick looking move by Vlad out of a Torture Rack).

KILLSWITCH! Christian wins and will face Dreamer for the title at NOC. Where the reign of FAT will end!

Match is solid. Christian is his usual awesome self... Vlad keeps things simple so he doesn't suck giant balls or bore us to death. Pleasantly surprised tbh, even if Christian was involved.

Rating: **1/4

Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 14/07/2009

So Shelton just recently came over in the DRAFT, and with Christian being a former ECW champ and current #1 contender, the GOLD STANDARD is looking to prove that HE should be on top of ECW. Match is evevn to start with, and then VLADIMIR KOZLOV comes down to do commentary which distracts Christian enough for Shelton to knock him off the ropes and begin his control segment.

:lmao who the fuck thought Vlad on commentary would be a good idea? 

"I CAN BEAT ANY TIME ANY WHERE"

Shelton is smart to go after Christian's arm, a technique that has been used successfully against Christian in the past.

Christian's got that VETERAN INSTINCT going for him though, and he can capitalise on the smallest opening from Shelton to try and make a comeback here and there, but to Shelton's credit he keeps going back to that arm to slow down Christian's momentum.

Oh shit, SHELTON WINS! Totally did NOT expect that, but hey, it was done well so I can't complain. The arm work was a focus of the match, Christian went for the Killswitch at the end, his arm gave out and Shelton capitalised with Paydirt and got the 3. Smart worked match, and good stuff overall. Would have liked it to have been longer than like, 8 minutes, but they did great with the time they got anyway.

Rating: **3/4

Goldust Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 14/07/2009

Bah, I hate Ryder. But I love Goldie. So I'll suffer through Ryder to get me some GOLDUST.

Goldust is another of the superstars ECW got in the draft. So we lost Swagger and Henry (BOOOOO) but we got Regal and Goldust. What about Finlay? Did we lose him too? I seem to recall him being on SD later in the year (I saw him Vs Drew at a SD taping in November). 

Well this isn't anything. Ryder sucks on offence. Goldust doesn't get much in. Match is super short. Ryder wins.

Rating: 1/4*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I've got nothing to add to the Goldberg comments except that if he truly was average/bad he would never have gotten over as a badass wrecking ball. Of course his booking helped him _but_ he made that character work and not come over as someone completely pointless and boring to the fans. He wasn't told to go out and deliver 1004 holds, he was meant to go out and break people. He did that fine. Great/GOAT worker? Of course not, but that doesn't negate him from being above negative connotation.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Regal Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 21/07/2009

:lmao WILLIAM REGAL TRULY DESPISES ALL FOREIGNERS!!!

:mark: Regal beats the FUCK out of this kid. Elbows to the fucking face, exploder suplex, and just general Regal NASTINESS.

Regal takes this one down to the match with a cross arm sleeper hold thingymabob, but his crazy screaming and mad man facials prevent it from being dull in the slightest. Yoshi escaping with a kick to the head makes me :mark:.

Yoshi fires back with some shitty chops, then Regal gets his arms up so Yoshi starts kicking the fuck out of his venerable places! No, not his crotch lol, just any part of his body that his arms aren't protecting .

Fuck me Yoshi gets the win! Gets it with a sweeeeet kick right to the head of Regal though. Regal's selling of it rules. This was good stuff!

Rating: **1/2

Goldust Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 21/07/2009

Goldust Vs The Gold Standard. Ust > Standard .

Shelton does a fairly decent job early on keeping Goldust down, and Goldust is awesome at selling every shot and screaming in pain too.

Then we get an awkward spot with Shelton leaping off the ropes and getting hit with an uppercut... which from GOLDUST sounds like the coolest thing ever... but Benjamin lands on his knees before Goldust can hit the uppercut (he's on his knees too...), and it looks dodgy as fuck.

Shelton comes back with Paydirt and gets the win over the veteran. Eh, not much to this at all. Poor Goldie.

Rating: 1/2*

Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - Night of Champions 26/07/2009

Alright, let's get this one over with. Roll on Christian winning back the ECW title!!!

:lmao there was a great Abe Washington Show on the last ECW show with these 2 on it. Christian mocks Dreamer always crying about ECW, and Dreamer says that's a slap in the face. So Christian slaps him in the face and says "no, THAT'S a slap in the face" :lmao. CHRISTIAN RULES~!

They play nicely into that by starting this match with SLAPS TO THE FACE.

Cool spot where Dreamer counters that corner kick to the face thingy Christian does, following it up with a club to the back and a neckbreaker while Christian was still in the ropes.

Dreamer keeps countering a bunch of VINTAGE~! Christian spots, that makes Dreamer look like a SMART champion, someone who has scouted his opponent to make sure he does everything possible to keep the ECW title that means so much to him. After all, he does cry about it all the god damn time! 

Man, this match really does seem to be a "let Dreamer look like the GOAT" match lol. Guy is countering everything Christian throws at him, and even counters Christian's counters of his counters! Dreamer is doing EVERYTHING in his power to retain the belt! 

TEXAS CLOVERLEAF BY DREAMER!!! But again even as Christian counters it, Dreamer reverses him!

Eventually though Christian gets in a couple of his signature moves as Dreamer seems to be slowing down and not being able to counter as well as he did before. Killswitch attempt is countered, but Christian then counters Dreamer into a successful Killswitch and regains his ECW title!!!

This is quite good! Match is under 10 minutes long, has a nice story of Dreamer doing everything to retain the belt, but Christian is able to hold on and as time goes on Dreamer gets sloppy and Christian is able to capitalise!

:lmao I think Dreamer is crying again :lmao.

Rating: ***


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Okay so I have alot of studying to do today so I won't get to dive into it TOO deep, but I've had something on my mind for a while and I'm going to try and put my theory to the test that I've had for a while here;

HHH's 2003 isn't even bad. It's not amazing, but it's certainly not bad. I need to dive further into this and I will, but after watching some matches against Flair, Booker, RVD, HBK, even NASH of all people in the cell.... I'm convinced that saying "2003 HHH WAS HORRIBLE" is just becoming a common statement by those who haven't even seen it and are just basing it on the Steiner & Nash Judgment Day fuckfests. I mean it's certainly no HHH 2000, 2004, or 2005, but it's certainly not worse than say.... 2006 when half of the year was spent on DX shenanigans w/ shitty work for the most part besides some of the McMahon fun.


----------



## Stone Hot (Dec 30, 2010)

I have quite the a video/wwe collection. I just bought a new shelf for them.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goldust Vs Sheamus - ECW 28/07/2009

:mark:

They put Sheamus' power over early on with Goldust taking some big bumps off of Sheamus' shoulder blocks. Goldie tries to fight back but Sheamus throws some big shots his way and the REAL Gold Standard of the WWE can't withstand such hard shorts.

Damn, Sheamus is trying to rip Goldust apart! He's got an arm bar in while TWISTING Goldust's head at the same time. Goldust does a wonderful job of getting the crowd into the match and behind him, long enough to give him momentum, to escape the hold and fire back on Sheamus!

Goldust runs right into a Brogue Kick, and takes an Irish Curse (both moves yet to be named obviously), and Sheamus gets the win!

Short match but good for the time it got.

Rating: **1/4

Christian Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 28/07/2009

We go from one awesome Veteran Vs promising new comer to one awesome Veteran Vs shitty newcomer . Just before the match they announce Christian Vs Dreamer rematch for the ECW title and it'll be in an Extreme Rules match.

Christian absolutely schools Ryder early on. As he should. LOL at Striker saying these 2 are both EVENLY MATCHED in terms of height and speed, but Christian has the advantage in the experience factor. He forgot to mention the advantage as far as talent goes. Since Christian is like, Flair compared to a nobody like Ryder .

Zack is able to gain a little control of the match... until Christian makes him look like a complete tool :lmao.

Josh: WELCOME BACK TO ECW *Christian gets launched off the ropes to the floor* WOW!" :lmao great start back after the break .

From there Ryder does a decent job working over Christian, and Christian does his usual good selling and comebacks .

Good little finishing stretch with Ryder avoiding a Killswitch and attempting the Zack Attack, but in the end the ECW champ picks up the win. Good match, surprised me a little. Honestly can't think of a better Ryder match.

Rating: **3/4

Goldust Vs Sheamus - ECW 04/08/2009

:mark: REMATCH :mark:

Goldust said he perhaps underestimated Sheamus last week, but this week he knows what he's in for. He starts things off with some BOMB of his own, but Sheamus quick as a flash drops Goldust's arm right down onto his knee and fuck, Golust acts like he just got his arm BROKEN. 

From there we have Sheamus working over the arm really nicely, with Goldust making little comebacks only for Sheamus to cut him off. Especially loved Sheamus kicking the knee of Goldust to take him down again, then going right back to the injured arm.

:lmao Sheamus has Goldust in a submission and I swear he screams YES... then referee shouts back to the bell ringer or whatever that he said NO. Ooooook lol.

Finish is a little out of nowhere but I kinda like it. Sheamus was on top of Goldust the entire match, preventing any major comebacks, and the finish fitted right into that. Another good match between these two, but Goldust's attack on the Irishman afterwards means it isn't over with them yet :mark:.

Rating: **1/2


Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer - Extreme Rules ECW Title Match - ECW 04/08/2009

:lmao at Christian just strolling down to the ring with a CAR DOOR over his shoulder.

Then Dreamer comes down with a hot dog cart. COS HE'S FAT :lmao.

They do some basic RASSLIN' exchanges to begin with, then both decide to grab a weapon. :lmao at the look on Christian's face when he realises he has a trash can lid and Dreamer has a Kendo Stick. He tries his best, blocks a couple of shots but it's too much and in the end he takes a couple of shots from the Stick .

:lmao Dreamer seems to be moving closer and closer to that hot dog stand. Guess he brought it incase he gets hungry . Good god, Christian SHATTERS a crutch over the back of Dreamer. E C DUB! E C DUB! E C DUB!

Oh shit. Christian just crashed into the hot dog stand. Dreamer is PISSED. So he EATS A HOT DOG :lmao. Then shoves one in Christian's face . SEE I TOLD YOU. HE WAS JUST HUNGRY.

We come back after a break and they are both exchanging punches... until Christian FALLS OVER A TRASH CAN and lands on his arse in the corner :lmao. Amazing. Botch or not it kinda ruled.

Oh man, Christian's bump INTO a trash can is epic. Guy stays inside it even after falling outside the ring to the floor. GOAT.

LOVE the use of trash cans in this. They throw them at each other, fall into them, RUN INTO THEM, and of course use the lids to hit each other, kick each other and fall face first onto. The way they crumble up looks adds a little extra to basic shit .

But with all the use of trash cans, the hot dog stand, kendo sticks and crutches... that CAR DOOR hasn't come into play yet. Why? Because it's for the big finale! They really, really tease a Piledriver onto it from Dreamer, but Christian reverses it into a Killswitch... RIGHT ON THE CAR DOOR :mark:.

This rules. EXTREME RULES.

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Best Hardcore Match that WWE ever gave to us? For me it's definetely Mick Foley vs Randy Orton from Backlash. Such a classic, ORton was brilliant in that period, his "Legend Killer" gimmick was in its prime, ****1/2 for that match


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Watched that Bourne/Morrison ECW match not too long ago and was fairly blown away. Unlike most people I'm actually a Morrison mark, so that didn't hurt. He looks pretty vicious in that match, and KILLS Bourne a few times.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Watched that Bourne/Morrison ECW match not too long ago and was fairly blown away. Unlike most people I'm actually a Morrison mark, so that didn't hurt. He looks pretty vicious in that match, and KILLS Bourne a few times.


Which one? They had two matches. Was it the one with the NASTY shining wizard sending Bourne to the outside as well as the punt to the eye, or the one with _THAT FINISH._ If it's the latter, you'll know what I mean, and anybody else who's seen it will know what I mean.

Both rule the world, naturally, just interested


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

God I love this Mid South set. The E really got this one right. DiBiase is a fucking stud in the ring and JYD is so fun to watch. Charisma for days.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> This week's SD will have Shield/Bryan & Rhodes Dynasty II. :mark:


And Punk vs. Big E, which for some reason really peaks my interest...



MachoMadness1988 said:


> God I love this Mid South set. The E really got this one right. DiBiase is a fucking stud in the ring and JYD is so fun to watch. Charisma for days.


GHETTO FIGHT

-----------

About to enter Del Rio's WWE Title reign(s) in 2011. Kind of excited to see him on the big stage.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep that ghetto fight is so fun. Butch Reed was very underrated.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Here are my top 10 2008 matches:

1-Edge vs Undertaker HIAC ****4/3 
2-Shawn vs Chris Jericho Ladder ****1/2
3-Edge vs Undertaker Wrestlemania ****1/2
4-Jeff Hardy vs Triple H vs Edge Armageddon ****1/4
5-Shawn vs Jericho Street fight ****1/4
6-Jeff Hardy vs Triple H No Mercy ****1/4
7-Shawn Michaels vs Jericho Judgment Day ****
8-Shawn Michaels vs Ric Flair WM ****
9-Edge vs Undertaker TLC match(this match gets bashed too much, it was a very good) ***3/4
10-Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Hardy from Feb RAW ***3/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Yep that ghetto fight is so fun. Butch Reed was very underrated.


You'd sure enjoy the custom Goodhelmet Mid South Set - http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/midsouthcomp.html , and his DiBiase in Mid South - http://textuploader.com/?p=6&id=6Jagw



I did buy the Mid South DVD too, havn't watched it yet though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/flair is MOTY IMO, a masterpiece

what is this hbk/hardy raw 08 ?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/flair is MOTY IMO, a masterpiece
> 
> what is this hbk/hardy raw 08 ?


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> hbk/flair is MOTY IMO, a masterpiece
> 
> what is this hbk/hardy raw 08 ?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egx3ekVbchM

that's the one...tbh back in 2008 i was just 14/15 and marking for both, i wanted HBK to win the rumble and Jeff to beat Orton so we'd have those two at WM for the WWE title..well that didn't happen 
I was glad the match was great even on RAW


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ thanks man, also depressed you stopped uploading in the multimedia section although I understand its pretty hard too, that hotflies is the only one I trust


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> ^^ thanks man, also depressed you stopped uploading in the multimedia section although I understand its pretty hard too, that hotflies is the only one I trust


Ill upload a couple of matches now and again, just not as often as i used to


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I just finished Jericho/ Edge from WM 26. Wow these 2 just didn't click. Very disappointing match. 

***1/4

I was expecting at least a 4 star match here.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

FluxCapacitor said:


> Which one? They had two matches. Was it the one with the NASTY shining wizard sending Bourne to the outside as well as the punt to the eye, or the one with _THAT FINISH._ If it's the latter, you'll know what I mean, and anybody else who's seen it will know what I mean.
> 
> Both rule the world, naturally, just interested


Hmm, I'm not sure now because I didn't realize they had two. I'm referring to the one Cal was writing about, with the leg sweep on the apron that folded Bourne up like an accordion. Might need to watch both now to be sure. What was THAT FINISH? Sounds familiar, so maybe it's that same match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

zep81 said:


> Ill upload a couple of matches now and again, just not as often as i used to


(Y) thats what I like to hear, watching that hbk/hardy rn

I want to rewatch one of the rhodes/shield tags tonite, I have a feeling it my go into my top 5 this year


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Excited for the SD main event this week. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> Okay so I have alot of studying to do today so I won't get to dive into it TOO deep, but I've had something on my mind for a while and I'm going to try and put my theory to the test that I've had for a while here;
> 
> HHH's 2003 isn't even bad. It's not amazing, but it's certainly not bad. I need to dive further into this and I will, but after watching some matches against Flair, Booker, RVD, HBK, even NASH of all people in the cell.... I'm convinced that saying "2003 HHH WAS HORRIBLE" is just becoming a common statement by those who haven't even seen it and are just basing it on the Steiner & Nash Judgment Day fuckfests. I mean it's certainly no HHH 2000, 2004, or 2005, but it's certainly not worse than say.... 2006 when half of the year was spent on DX shenanigans w/ shitty work for the most part besides some of the McMahon fun.


Well tbf I'd say the DX stuff in 2006 was bad as well.  I'd be willing to watch 2003 HHH on TV to give him a fair shot since I don't remember much of what he did on TV, but I'd absolutely say he was awful on PPV and most TV I've seen. Like, for one match on TV, that Kane mask match is atrocious. I like the Michaels match at the end of the year, at least. Not as much as everyone else, but I like it.

Does anyone know what HHH was even doing on TV in 03? I'd hate to bring up another HHH talk (it hit my attention that we could be talking about Butch Reed instead), but I'm looking at google (google chrome spell check thinks 'google' should start with a capital C, uppity pricks) videos and they have nothing I haven't heard of other than a GOLDBERG match on Raw. EDIT - Looked up some Raw cards....seems to be all tags. But fuck that noise - Goldberg v. 3 Minute Warning main evented an ep of Raw!!!!!!


Man I like that Michaels/Hardy match a lot. Definitely one of my favourites from 2000s Michaels.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Traditional Survivor Series Match Review Part I (2000-2005)
*
2000: Radicalz vs. K-Kwik, Chyna, Road Dogg and Gunn: ***
K-Kwik had LESS rapping skills in 2000 than he does now. Color me shocked.
There was a point in my life that I found Chyna marginally attractive...
LATINO HEAT WAS OVER LIKE ROVER.
Billy Gunn was fucking GASSED. 
I don't understand the need for the dirty finish...because they were dominating and "The One" Billy Gunn was the last guy. 

*Edge & Christian & Right to Censor vs. The Dudleyz and The Hardyz ***
Yeah. It was just kinda there.
RTC went through tables at the end.

*2001: Winner Takes All Survivor Series Match: ****. *
:lmao alert: JR and Heyman's arguing on commentary. 
Shane breaks up legit 10 pinfalls in first couple of minutes. :lmao
Even, JR wants to kick Shane's ass.
ABA Taker does a TOMBSTONE to Shane-O. 
I loved Jericho's breakdown move, which is basically Miz' SCF. 
Heyman telling the Screwjob because Hebner's refereeing :lmao
NICK PATRICK HEEL REF.
Crowd was dead until it came down to Austin and Rock.

*2002: 6 Man Elimination Table Tag Match: Bubba Dudley, Spike Dudley and Jeff Hardy vs. 3 Minute Warning and Rico. **3/4*
Three Minute Warning's theme is just awesome.
:lmao alert Rico yelling at Jeff for missing his spot...and then Jeff grabbing the ropes on the other side "somehow" crotching Rico.
Pretty good table eliminations.
On a side note, Bubba was over as single guy and D-Von totally wasn't at this point but HEY. DUDLEYZ REUNITE.

*2003:Team Lesnar vs. Team Angle **3/4*
:lmao Show: “KISS MY ASS, ANGLE!”
Michael Cole: “I can tell you we don't know a whole lot about Matt Morgan.” FFS he was on the roster for two months at this point. Make something up, Cole.
NATHAN JONES=GOAT. This guy was "injured" so he did a run-in because he TOO DAMN GOOD, obviously. 

*Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff ****1/2*
:lmao alert: JR railing on King for being a hyprocrite.
Apparently, Randy Orton RKO'ing Cuban deserves a "resturant quality ass whoopin'" Oh, JR. 
HBK's performance in this :mark:
JERICHO BEING A NO GOOD SON OF A BITCH. I loved how he flipped off Austin before leaving.
:lmao :lmao Orton selling the Stunner. 
The ending is just great...TISTA. Austin-HBK interaction afterwards.
Only reason it's just four stars is because Austin was back in like 2 weeks, making the match pointless.
Heel Coach >>>>> . He proceeds to get his ASS whooped afterwards for taunting Austin.

*2004: Team Eddie vs. Team Angle ****
The teams are SO lopsided. Eddie-Cena-Show- RVD against Angle, Carlito and JINDRAK AND Luther the "Crowd Killer"
:lmao The faces got individual entrances and the heels got grouped with one. 
Carlito and Jesus, on to of being attempted murders,are also car thieves. 
3 eliminations in like 2 minutes toward the end.

*Team HHH vs. Team Orton ***3/4*
I'll still never understand why Maven was in this fucking match.
"IT WASN'T MY FAULT." 
:lmao Snitsky and Batista while Trips was in the WOJ.
:lmao Flair being Flair gets ejected and nearly launches his jacket into the crowd.
Snitsky's cut above his eye was BRUTAL.
HOO BOY did Orton's first face run suck.
Booking was really smart though and the ending was some good shit.
Drink every time Orton does his pose. He does it like 100 times in this match.

*2005: Team Smackdown vs. Team Raw **3/4*
Not a fan of this match, just doesn't do anything for me. A month or so after Eddie's death so that gets heavily mentioned and rightfully so.

RANT on Inter-brand matches: It's pointless as there's not a big distinction between Raw and SD. Look at the ten guys in the match. Team Raw has two guys who just came over from Smackdown a few months ago (Big Show and Carlito) and a guy who's still somewhat fresh to the company (Masters). On the other side you have guys who worked on Raw (Batista, Orton and JBL) and a guy who just debuted in October (Lashley). 

HBK and Rey rip-off the HBK-Shelton spot which was pretty cool.

Orton and HBK were the stars of this.

:lmao Tazz on commentary: Taz: “Joey, you've been in the company for a cup of coffee. I'm begging ya to be quiet and go write something on the internet. HUH?! SHUT UP! I'm getting pissed off now. 

"Coach, you're not funny, you're not good and you're not credible.”

(During Masters' entrance) Taz: “Oh yeah? I'll be quiet because you said so, because a guy with a cape on came out. I don't give a rat's ass about this guy. He's not on Smackdown. I don't give a rat's ass about you, Styles, anybody."

Orton WINS. FOR HE'S A JOLLY GOOD FELLOW. GONG. 

Orton's facial reactions after seeing Taker are priceless.

UNDERTAKAH beats the hell out the entire Smackdown locker room (aka) the guys who weren't even on the card.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Well tbf I'd say the DX stuff in 2006 was bad as well.  I'd be willing to watch 2003 HHH on TV to give him a fair shot since I don't remember much of what he did on TV, but I'd absolutely say he was awful on PPV and most TV I've seen. Like, for one match on TV, that Kane mask match is atrocious. I like the Michaels match at the end of the year, at least. Not as much as everyone else, but I like it.
> 
> Does anyone know what HHH was even doing on TV in 03? I'd hate to bring up another HHH talk (it hit my attention that we could be talking about Butch Reed instead), but I'm looking at google (google chrome spell check thinks 'google' should start with a capital C, uppity pricks) videos and they have nothing I haven't heard of other than a GOLDBERG match on Raw. EDIT - Looked up some Raw cards....seems to be all tags. But fuck that noise - Goldberg v. 3 Minute Warning main evented an ep of Raw!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Wasn't trabley haiche injured for most of 03? Hence almost bugger all on TV?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, he had a quad or groin injury, wearing those GOAT trunks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Stephanie wore him out 8*D.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:HHH


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I go the full :meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer:meltzer on the 2001 Survivor Series main event. I'm shocked this has not ended up on a WWE set. My assumption is there will be an Austin/Rock rivalry set someday with a sit down interview like the Bret/HBK one. This match would have to be on a set like this one would think. Just a fantastic elimination match. My favorite match of 2001.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Super busy ATM, I have about 30 min to start my next KOTR PPV to continue the project. Gonna do 1995, looks terrible since fucking MABEL WINS.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

God that PPV is bad, but I wonder if the main event is as bad as I remember.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Anyone ever watch anything wwe related on Netflix?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^yeah they have some fun stuff on there. best stuff:

Taker set
Best of RAW and SD 2011
CM Punk doc
Foley Doc

Need to put more shit on there though 

EDIT: ahh crap the youtube video I found only has half of the show for KOTR 1995. Thats the only video of it too. What the fuck am I gonna do? this fucks up everything!!


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Super busy ATM, I have about 30 min to start my next KOTR PPV to continue the project. Gonna do 1995, looks terrible since fucking MABEL WINS.


*Oh dear god. That PPV is all types of bad. I think that PPV has the Kiss My Foot match and a HAKUSHI sighting :mark: *


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Kiss My Foot match is indeed on there. Not sure about Hakushi.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

KOTR 95 is where the infamous ECW chants surfaced the WWE

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*If I recall he makes a run-in during the match with some other goof to help Lawler. 

That match for some reason is etched in my memory.*


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

aaand now I have to get back to work...

so much for watching wrestling


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Well smitty, at least you know this is waiting for you when you get back from work*.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd rather see Mabel wrestle and win KOTR that sit through most of the original ECW 8*D.

Regal Vs Dreamer is next up for my ECW 09 reviews. REGAL :mark:.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:lmao


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Callamus said:


> I'd rather see Mabel wrestle and win KOTR that sit through most of the original ECW 8*D.
> 
> Regal Vs Dreamer is next up for my ECW 09 reviews. REGAL :mark:.


I'd rather see Mabel wrestle and win kotr than sit through most of WWECW post 2006 8*D

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd agree with you on that when it comes to 07 and most of 08 .


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I stopped watching ECW entirely when Chavo won the belt

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't blame ya. Chavo Jr = RATINGS KILLER. Henry winning the title made things more interesting though .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

LMAO @ CAL hating original ECW and saying Angle/Shane McMahon (a match that does shitty ECW way more shitty than ECW did) is a great match. L-M-A-O inDEED!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

hbk/hardy raw 08 was tremendous, thanks to all that recommended it, took a break from the wwe during than, I'm not a big project guy but if I did one, hbk 2008 would definitively be a choice, I love that he has incorporated so much flair into his moveset


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm jealous of ya'll who can watch wrestling all the time 

Any of you guys wanna write my speech about why the US needs to start military force in Iran to prevent nuclear proliferation? 

Didn't think so :lol.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> LMAO @ CAL hating original ECW and saying Angle/Shane McMahon (a match that does shitty ECW way more shitty than ECW did) is a great match. L-M-A-O inDEED!


Yeah, I was really surprised when I saw him rate Angle/Shane so high.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> I'm jealous of ya'll who can watch wrestling all the time
> 
> Any of you guys wanna write my speech about why the US needs to start military force in Iran to prevent nuclear proliferation?
> 
> Didn't think so :lol.


Not me, tomorrow the only day I dont have classes this week


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Angle/Shane was great and you know it J-Man. Unlike the majority of original ECW matches where they bled and hit each other with shit for no other reason than it was ECW, the match made sense and had a story to it and was awesome . STOP HATING ON ANGLE!!!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Angle/Shane was fun. I gave it **** 1/4 on Sunday when I watched it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

(for the record I like Angle/Shane as well)


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea angle/shane is one of angle's better matches, its best to not watch trying to review and shit


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The next match in the Del Rio project is one in the WWE Champ reign of 2011 that people COMPLETELY forget even happened. Wonder if anyone can guess it...


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/triple-h-exclusive-interviews-with-michael-cole

New interview with Trips and Cole. So awesome. "You wanna be Barbara Walters?" :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> The next match in the Del Rio project is one in the WWE Champ reign of 2011 that people COMPLETELY forget even happened. Wonder if anyone can guess it...


ADR vs. Mysterio from Raw.

I win, give me a cookie.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Sandrone said:


> ADR vs. Mysterio from Raw.
> 
> I win, give me a cookie.


:clap

:cheer

:hb

Unfortunately that's all I can afford.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^^^Ptf... what a jip. unk3



HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> http://www.wwe.com/videos/playlists/triple-h-exclusive-interviews-with-michael-cole
> 
> New interview with Trips and Cole. So awesome. "You wanna be Barbara Walters?" :lol


As I said in the thread on it, the face HHH made after Cole asked that last question had me rolling. :lmao Needs to be a smilie.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Angle/Shane was great and you know it J-Man. Unlike the majority of original ECW matches where they *bled and hit each other with shit for no other reason than it was ECW*, the match made sense and had a story to it and was awesome . STOP HATING ON ANGLE!!!


I think you just described the stupid glass spots (other than the ECW part...it was clearly not ECW. If it happened in ECW they would have made it have more sense YES I JUST SAID THAT). I like Angle more than Shane, fwiw. Though they were equally stupid in that match, probably. Still there are Angle matches I love. Can't say the same for the overrated pinball who's punches are so bad people thought he was kayfabe holding back to advance a story line. 








--------------



Looked deeper into the Raw 2003 stuff. HHH had some singles, with Goldust and Maven and Helms. Might try watching some 2003 HHH if it's going to get the 'not bad' from people. Thinking of starting Extreme Rules 2010 now, though. Like right now.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

@Yeah 1993 you should absolutely watch that HHH vs Goldust RAW match. More so than that though, everyone should watch Bookdust vs HHH/Flair which was also on RAW. That match fucking rules the world.

EDIT - Just a heads up for the people that have actually read my posts(all three of you) and started using watchwrestling.net. I know it's down currently, but their back up site is watchwrestling.tv


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think there are two Booker/Goldust v. Trip/Flairs, on back-to-back weeks. Positive I saw at least one last year when I watched fifty thousand Goldust matches for the hell of it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

@wilberforce: Are you the guy behind watchwrestling.net? If so, you need so much rep


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I remember Trips having a quality match with Maven on an '03 Heat episode. His 03 TV matches were solid...his 03 PPV matches...eh not so much.*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

On the topic of 03 HHH, I just watched the RVD match from his DVD and it was actually kind of decent. Thinking of going through his matches from the more recent years like the Jericho and Hardy matches that are on the DVD plus a rewatch of WM with Lesnar since I remembered being BORED by it live.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Which Rey/Eddie sd match is the one that people call their MOTY? Is it 6/26 or the steel cage?


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This one.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I wish that was the one they included on the Mysterio set. Instead we got that Wrestlemania match scar


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Biggest Little Man? It's on there w/ Judgment Day.


EDIT - oh, this? When the hell did this come out?
http://www.wrestling101.com/home/2011/09/wwe-rey-mysterio-the-life-of-a-masked-man-dvd-review/


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Came out in 2011. There's a little too much 2010 stuff on it for my liking, wish there were more of his WWE matches from 02-04 but it's still looking like a very good set. I'm watching it right now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Was Ambrose/Ziggler on Main Event worth it?

EDIT: Yup, this was more than worth it. Really, really fun back-and-forth match. Ambrose's best singles performance on the main roster yet imo, he did the absolute most of his simplistic offense, and Ziggler was just on Cesaro Mode of awesome. Best 5 seconds of a match since Cena/Trips/Shawn too btw


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think there are two Booker/Goldust v. Trip/Flairs, on back-to-back weeks. Positive I saw at least one last year when I watched fifty thousand Goldust matches for the hell of it.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xndus7_bookdust-vs-triple-h-ric-flair-raw-3-24-03_sport

That's the match I was talking about. I had no idea they had another match though. This pleases me. Please tell me you can confirm this and happen to have a link handy.

Oh and for the record, I have nothing to do with the running of watchwrestling.net I just discovered it earlier this year, and since people seem to be asking for links in this thread fairly often, I figured I'd pimp the shit out of that site because it's the dog's bollucks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just looked up the Raw 03 results, only one BookerDust Vs TripleFlair tag. The previous week is Goldust Vs HHH though.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I recently saw this match : 
Armageddon 2006 : MNM vs Hardys vs London and Kendrick vs Regal and Taylor 


Fantastic Action ! Bloody ! even funny considering how tough men like Regal and Taylor are were afraid from climbing the ladder 
easily a ****1/2 match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's one of my favourite ladder matches. REGAL AND TAYLOR fucking guys up, Mercury getting his face caved in for real, Londrick and Hardy's taking insane bumps... just an awesome match :mark:. I was a little disappointed that we didn't get the advertised Londrick Vs Regal & Taylor, but fuck they made up for it!


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Just looked up the Raw 03 results, only one BookerDust Vs TripleFlair tag. The previous week is Goldust Vs HHH though.


Thank you for clearing that up Mr.Moderater. Well Yeah1993, it appears you have toyed with my emotions and now the only logical next step is for me to fight you in real life. PM for details.

Oh and that Armageddon ladder match gets 17 thumbs up from me as well. You get the usual cool spottiness you get in most ladder matches, but then you have Regal and Taylor adding that extra dynamic you don't tend to get in multi man ladder matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: downloading ECW 2010 in HD. To add to my collection of ECW 2009 in HD (oh hey think I'll watch some more of that soon  ), all of 2006 and 7 months of 2008 so far. Just need the rest of 08 to be uploaded, and then to get 07 and I'll have all the ECW shows on my pc lol. Though I'm not certain I wanna waste space with 07 .

Uploading Zayn/Swagger from NXT to my DM account atm. Had the full show on my pc for ages and I have yet to get around to watching it (the version I originally saw was edited so I never saw the full match lol), and to save space I decided to slice the match out and upload it so I can delete the file .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I must have read HHH/Flair v. Booker/Hurricane (main event to the 4/14/03) as another one of them tags. Dunno why I thought they were on back-to-back weeks.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Regal Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 11/08/2009

Regal is announced as the #1 contender to the ECW title before this match. CHRISTIAN VS REGAL :mark:. But for now he has to face Dreamer.

Dreamer's left arm is taped up after the extreme rules match last week. Regal goes after it immediately, and Dreamer is all "YOU GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY ARM YOU ENGLISH CUNT!" and just starts wailing on Regal to keep him away from the arm for as long as possible.

Of course it isn't long before Regal does get hold of that bad arm, and he goes to work on it like only Regal can . He tries to take the bandage or whatever off of his arm, but can't quite get it so he even tries BITING it off :lmao. Odd to see Dreamer's OPPONENT being the one trying to eat mid match .

God, I still loath that "E C W" chest bump thing Dreamer does. He looks like he doesn't give a fuck about it, then he waddles along to do a "running" dropkick and fuck me I think I could move faster in my sleep.

KNEE TREMBLER~! Regal gets the win, then locks in the Regal Stretch to make an example out of Dreamer. Match is decent.

Rating: **


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I must have read HHH/Flair v. Booker/Hurricane (main event to the 4/14/03) as another one of them tags. Dunno why I thought they were on back-to-back weeks.


OK I can forgive you ONCE. That Booker/Hurricane vs HHH/Flair match has actually peaked my interest though. Do you know if it was any good/if it's online somewhere?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Regal & Vladimir Kozlov Vs Christian & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 18/08/2009

Dreamer was originally supposed to team with Christian here, but he got taken out by Vlad and Regal earlier. Moments before the match Christian found a new partner and it's Big Zeke! Big Zeke and Vlad have been... feuding (?)... which saw them get involved in each other's matches and attack their opponents to show superiority or something. Crazy lol.

I have a feeling I know what is gonna happen here, and it's not gonna be good for Christian lol . REGAL'S ROUNDTABLE~!

Christian and Regal start things out :mark:. Christian gets the better of Regal so Regal tags in the MOSCOW MAULER and even he can't do much against Christian at first. Then Regal distracts Christian and holy FUCK does Kozlov lay into Christian. And Christian takes on hell of a bump out of the ring from a headbutt too lol. Now the fun can begin :mark:. Regal and Kozlov work over the ECW Champ and since it's Christian being FIP and Kozlov sticking to basic power moves and Regal being Regal you just KNOW it can't go wrong!

In the end, Christian starts to build some momentum and Big Zeke murders him. Regal gets the pin. Good stuff, even though I'm sure it was only about 7 minutes long!

Rating: **3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW Title Match - SummerSlam 23/08/2009

The bell rings, Regal turns around to take his jacket off, Christian grabs him and hits the Killswitch and this is over.

FACKING BOOOOLSHIT!

Rating: DUD

Sheamus Vs Goldust - ECW 25/08/2009

:mark: MATCH 3 :mark:.

Huh, apparently they both hold victories over each other... but in the 2 ECW matches they've had, Sheamus won. WHERE ARE THESE OTHER MATCHES?!?!

Sheamus hits Goldust HARD to start things off, and Goldust channels TENRYU, looking bewildered that anyone would dare do that to HIM... and he fires back with huge shots of his own, taking down Sheamus and pummelling his face in!

Ok, paused the video real quick and looked up the Goldust/Sheamus matches. The third, where Goldust gets a win, happens on Superstars. Oh man if only I had Superstars 2009 on my PC... OH WAIT I DO!!!  I shall watch it after this lol.

So despite channelling TENRYU and going all MANLY on Sheamus, Goldust doesn't stay in control for long. The Irishman is still too powerful for the bizarre one.

Damn Sheamus has some NASTY submission holds. Everything he does looks deadly. Must be that EUROPEAN style or something lol.

The veteran Goldust isn't gonna stay down for very long though, but before he can really capitalise on a comeback, they both end up on the outside beating the absolute fuck out of each other while the referee counts them out! GRUDGE MATCH TO COME :mark:. 

Short but sweet. I like TV feuds. And TV feuds between guys like this is just :mark:. Sheamus is better than I remember him being this early on. Guess it was his opponent that helped. Wrestling in main events with the likes of Cena and Orton once he won the WWE Title at the end of the year didn't help him because he didn't mesh well with Cena and Orton couldn't carry anyone to save his life.

Rating: **

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 25/08/2009

Regal gotta WIN this match here to gain another opportunity at the ECW title after the SummerSlam bullshit.

They tease the SS finish straight away as Christian goes for a Killswitch in the opening moments, but Regal is ready for it this time and escapes.

Christian starts to build momentum, sends Regal outside to do his VINTAGE~! spots, but Vlad and Zeke stand in front of Regal and Christian thinks twice about going out with them there. That momentum stopper allows Regal to get back into the match and from there it's VINTAGE~! Regal. Which is awesome of course .

Judo throw type move off the apron to the floor looks nasty and works well as a potential count out. Regal wants to HURT Christian but at the same time needs to BEAT him, and the Judo throw HURT Christian but the countout could very well have BEAT him, hence Regal not bothering to go after the ECW champ.

Sheamus was bring out some nasty looking submissions earlier. Now meet the MASTER of nasty looking submissions. Plus some nasty elbows. TO THE FACE.

:mark: Christian comeback is immense, thanks to Regal just screaming in pain after every shot to his face, plus he makes those awesome faces to go with it. Really puts over how hard Christian is fighting to get back into this thing.

:lmao at Christian slapping Vlad in the face. JUST BECAUSE. But it ends up costing him the match, as Big Zeke gets up on the apron to complain to the ref, allowing Vlad to headbutt Christian as revenge, setting Christian up for the KNEE TREMBLER!!! Regal wins and is once again #1 contender :mark:.

Great match! 2 days after SummerSlam. WHY THE FUCK WAS THIS NOT THE SUMMERSLAM MATCH?

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sheamus Vs Goldust - Superstars 13th August 2009

:mark:.

They have an AWESOME segment on the Abe Washington Show on ECW the week after this, where they have this big epic staredown... only for Goldust to just scream "AJHGHGH HSDHFHGTH UYHDHGHJDSG!!!" because he's still playing the electrocuted Goldust character :lmao.

MANLINESS~! Plenty of great shots from both guys, then after a flurry in the corner, Sheamus tries to run the fuck away and ends up in the crowd lol. Break... then we come back and Sheamus is in control. Luckily the replay shows us the AWESOME way Sheamus gets back in control. He sweeps the legs out from under Goldust while he's walking up the steps and he takes a great face bump right into the steel :mark:.

How awesome is Goldust as a bumper and seller? Love how he screams in pain all the time, and fuck me some of the bumps he takes is incredible. The one on the steps earlier, the one where he gets knocked off the ropes to the floor, and one on the barricade too. The fact he's still doing this shit in 2013 is :mark:.

Sheamus begins to show signs of frustration as he CAN'T KEEP Goldust down! But he keeps on the veteran rather than complaining and making mistakes, showing he's a smart worker.

Mentioned this shit before but Sheamus is great with submissions, and Goldust is amazing at getting the crowd into the match so he can use their "force" or whatever to escape holds.

Match goes from good to fucking great once Goldie makes his comeback and they go into a SWEET finishing stretch. They even play off the finish to their match the week before on ECW which made me :mark:.

Double big boot puts them both down, and once they get back up Goldust wastes no time with a small package and picks up the win! Man, this rules. Better than their 3 ECW matches so far lol!

Rating: ***1/2

AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE?


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

:lol @ Triple post.

Speaking of TRIPLE, TRIPLE FUCKING H watchings is in order. Kane/RVD Vs Haitch/Naitch from 4/28/2003 is up next, GOD I'm hoping that I'm going to find a big time gem soon. 

EVOLUTION VS DUDLEYZ ELIMINATION MATCH? I NEED TO SEE THIS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader VS Nobuhiko Takada - 8/18/94 *

Fucking stiff as shit match, some VERY POWERFUL right handers landed by Vader, Takada at one point looks up as if to say "What the fuck was that?" 
Both guys just throw bombs the entire time, massive punches and kicks, just brutal.

****1/2

IMO

I watched it at home, but after looking up the YT link and seeing a comment, i didn't realise Vader's son is in NXT?


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Edge-Cena Rivalry PPV Matches:​
*New Year's Revolution (Cash-In)*-*N/R*

The first and BEST cash-in ever. I was and still am the biggest Edgehead :mark: One thing wrong this though:

IT TOOK 2 SPEARS TO BEAT Cena. I understand you want to protect the guy...but it's not like he went through the elimination Chamber and all that jazz so I'm sure one spear would've been enough. All though Edge's spears weren't pretty awful :lmao

Edge's celebration looks so genuine, gotta love those moments.

Joey Styles: "EDGE HAS JUST SHOCKED THE WORLD." :cheer

*Royal Rumble 2006*- ****

First of all, Cena's entrance spoke volumes, it basically said: "LOL EDGE? I'm getting my title back." :cena2 No one in that crowd thought Edge was going to retain. 

It's this kind of grandiose theatricality that is like "OMG COOL" until you realize...the WWE Champion comes out after and he's going to lose.

I will admit, Edge's 3 week reign was like a relief for the Cena hate...cause he was getting some good cheers here. :lmao only for them to arise when he faced Trips at Mania 22.

Edge had some awesome heel tactics throughout...including shoving Tits McGee into Cena before spearing him into the steps. His constant taunting made him come off as genuine prick.

OKAY. Mickie Henson: 1) His referee shirt is fucking hilarious. 2):lmao :lmao He basically gives Cena a 14-count when he's outside the ring. It makes NO sense.

The match is basically: Edge beats on Cena for like 10 minutes...and Cena shrugs it off and hits with the F-U...then does the STFU despite never working Edge over. Edge kind of looked like a geek.

Not one false finish and the chemistry just wasn't there...YET.

*Summerslam 2006*- ****1/2*

:mark: :lmao "You have your arm around your dad cause I bitchslapped him."

Edge was 6-1 at Summerslam and JR with the bullshit stat of the night "He has a victory over Eddie Guerrero, not people had victories over Eddie Guerrero." LOL. So 2000-2003 never happened? Okay, Jim. :bs:

The CO/DQ stipulation + the psychology of that makes this such a good match toward the end. CRWOD was also alive...despite to my knowledge Summerslam '06 was some crap. Cena needed this feud and got better from it. Vice-versa. These two needed each other to become stars.

:lmao Tits McGee trying to slide Edge a chair despite the fact it's no DQ and JR rightfully calls her an idiot.

Edge hits Cena in the back of the head with brass knux Lita gave him. JR: "SON OF A BITCH." :lmao

*Unforgiven 2006 (TLC)*- ******

EDGE'S OVATION :mark: It kinda makes up for when he got shitted on at Summerslam 2004. I will say this--the booking of utilizing the hometowns was excellent.

:lmao I love how they treat Cena losing and going to Smackdown is like the end of his career. Smackdown= forever a B Show.

2006 was the downfall of Lawler, he mad excuses for why fans are cheering Edge. :lmao Dumbass, it's his hometown and people didn't like Cena. There's the reason.

Some really cool spots here: Edge's dropkicking the ladder into Cena's face. Edge pulling an SVR move and jumping off the ladder on to Cena. They did botch a cool looking powerbomb spot...but whatever.

Edge's facial reaction in this are legendary. BTW, Cena was a 2-time champ at this point. Crazy, huh. CHAIRSHOTS ON CHAIRSHOT ON CHAIRSHOTS.

Cena goes to climb and TITS MCGEE TO SAVE THE DAY. King and JR take turns calling Lita a bitch. Poor Lita 

The finish as you know is pretty cool but :lmao Cena had to re-stack the tables despite having a clear pathway to the gold so it kinda doesn't make sense (in a real setting) but in the long run it's worth it for the spot.

Borderline classic TLC. Not just spotty, but it told an awesome story. 

*Backlash 2009 (LMS)*- ******

Edge hates Cena. Like he REEEEEALLLY hates Cena. "I hate your stupid shirt...your stupid Cenation." :lmao

Edge + Gimmick Matches :mark: These two always had a split crowd which really added to the rivalry.

Both had awesome LMS matches in the past: Cena/Umaga and Edge/and that Wah guy. CROWD was into it. Why this wasn't at WM 25...I'll never know.

Why does Cena do the 5-Knuckle Shuffle in gimmick match? You can leave that out the repertoire when you're in a gimmick match with a guy you hate. Edge is going to target Cena's legs which was good psychology.

What I don't like about this match is if Edge knows Cena keeps getting back up...why does he expect simple moves to knock him down. Maybe I'm just nitpicking. Pacing in the match + Lively crowd makes this match really enjoyable.

CENA AA's EDGE INTO THE CROWD. :mark:. EDGE GETTING STEPS THROWN AT HIS HEAD.

They kept building up to something big and didn’t disappoint with the final spot. The finish is with BIG SHOOOOOW. I actually like the finish in terms of storyline advancement BUT it kinda ruined the match a little. 2nd best match though. TLC is their best match by a fingernail.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Edge/Cena matches you just mentioned;

Royal Rumble ~ *1/2 **
Summerslam ~ **** 1/2*
Unforgiven ~ ** 1/2*
Backlash ~ ****



Just watched the very first HHH-Flair match in 2002 which is also the very first WHC match in the titles current lineage. It was pretty solid, even if Flair wasn't a CRAZY OLD MAN like he was in 2005/2006. I'd give it probably like *** 3/4* in all honesty, not as good as the South Carolina match in 2003 or the 2005 PPV matches, but just as good as the Wrestlemania tournament match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Edge/ cena matches are definitely underrated around here. .... that lms match was awesome! 

Lms: ****1\4 best match 
SS: ***3/4
TLC: **** (Don't understand the hate nor I ever will)
RR: ***1/4


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can understand people liking their matches... except for the RR match . That was an abomination, regardless of the fact Cena crushed Edge and his title win lol.

Well, out of all the ECW 09 matches I've watched so far, I'd only call 7 of them bad. And all of them involve at least one of the following wrestlers:

Christian
Regal
Henry
Swagger
Finlay
Goldust

:|

That being said I'm sure there's a ton of utter shite involving the lesser guys, but I ain't watching their matches unless they are paired up with someone I give a fuck about .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Cal, you mean you aren't going to watch the Ricky Ortiz "Rally Towel" matches?!*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That Regal/Dreamer match is being on slept on hard, there. They had two matches and I'm pretty sure that's the one where Dreamer just fucking ruled in.


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

Honestly, as much shit as Dreamer gets(some valid to be fair), he's put in some pretty damn good performances. He garners sympathy very well I find.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> *Vader VS Nobuhiko Takada - 8/18/94 *
> 
> Fucking stiff as shit match, some VERY POWERFUL right handers landed by Vader, Takada at one point looks up as if to say "What the fuck was that?"
> Both guys just throw bombs the entire time, massive punches and kicks, just brutal.
> ...


Now THIS is fucking awesome. Vader was such a fucking BEAST. Love the emotion after the win with his son too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Now THIS is fucking awesome. Vader was such a fucking BEAST. Love the emotion after the win with his son too.


Check out these fellow Vader UWFi matches:

*Vader vs Kiyoshi Tamura - 6/10/94*






*Vader VS Nobuhiko Takada - 12/5/93 *


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, here are three more matches rumoured for SVS:



Spoiler: Survivor Series rumors



- The Miz vs. Bray Wyatt
- The Rhodes vs. The Shield vs. The Usos (Elimination)
- AJ Lee vs. Natalya



The 1st is meh, but the 2nd is :mark: and 3rd is alright. SVS looks awesome.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> Check out these fellow Vader UWFi matches:
> 
> *Vader vs Kiyoshi Tamura - 6/10/94*
> 
> ...


You are THE MAN. Love me some Vader. Would prefer a smoking elephant helmet entrance but these will do. :hb Amazing that he can work that long a match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> You are THE MAN. Love me some Vader. Would prefer a smoking elephant helmet entrance but these will do. :hb Amazing that he can work that long a match.


*Vader vs Antonio Inoki - 1/4/96*






Maybe his best singles Japan match, although i do need to watch more tbh. Like some more tags with Bam Bam for example.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Folks, here are three more matches rumoured for SVS:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Anything on what the main matches would be? God forbid Punk vs. Heyman going another month.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Trips/Show is a lock but rest idk. I guess Team Orton/Team Bryan and Cena/ADR too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

zep81 said:


> *Vader vs Antonio Inoki - 1/4/96*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This I've seen, but not in years. FUCK, time to watch again. :mark:


----------



## Wilberforce (Feb 14, 2013)

So I've been watching a fair bit of Goldust recently and I got a pretty sweet tag match recommended for me on youtube. Definitely worth ten minutes of your time. I'm a big fan of three of the four men in the match(I'll give you a hint, one of them isn't Booker T), so that probably helps but I think the majority of you will enjoy it.






Watch/enjoy/rate/whatever the fuck else it is you wanna do.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

For the Cena/Edge matches, I freaking loved their chemistry, I don't think I was ever disappointed by any match..

Royale Rumble : ***1/2
Mick Foley Special Ref : ***1/2
SummerSlam : ***3/4 ( great back and forth match, I loved how they used the storyline in the match, and Edge did a missile dropkick, it had been a while since that one)
Unforgiven : I had no idea this match got any hate to be honest, IMO it is one of the best one on one ladder match in WWE history, this match was perfect, great spots, crowd cheering Edge and him playing to it, and the ending holy fuck Cena FU-ed Edge trough two tables!) It gets ****1/2 ( if Meltzer gave it ****1/4, I sure as hell rate it higher)






Cage match : **** 


LMS : the one to end it all, would have been ***** for a clean ending to this awesome feud, but because of Show's interference, while it makes sense, I give it a ****3/4 ( still top 3 best LMS ever)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ That NWO/Bookdust tag sounds amazing, will check it out after NXT.

@TLK, I've only just seen your re. Bourne/Morrison. I believe the one you watched was in 09, the night after the draft? That's the one that gets pimped a whole lot more and for good reason, it's one of my favourite TV matches of all time in all honesty, and would only fall behind Christian/Swagger in terms of TV matches for 2009, which is crazy considering the amount of good matches that year.

When I referred to THAT FINISH, it was their 2008 match. I'll put it like this: Evan sells the flying chuck like an absolute lunatic. God bless that small, peace sign throwing, marijuana loving bundle of joy. You need to check it out.

Part one: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6qavy_evan-bourne-vs-john-morrison-9-9-08_sport?search_algo=2
Part two: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6qaue_evan-bourne-vs-john-morrison-9-9-08_sport?search_algo=2


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

<3

Thanks, Flux. Will definitely check it out now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I bought the Morrison DVD after a recommendation from here  (and it was very cheap ) There is a Bourne match on there, I may finally check it out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey ECW 2010 finished downloading in HD earlier. CHRISTIAN VS REGAL AND CHRISTIAN & KANE VS REGAL & BIG ZEKE IN HD :mark:. Plus Christian Vs Zeke Extreme Rules match for the ECW title on the last show, which if anything like their RR match is gonna be worth it.

Edit: The Bourne match on the Morrison DVD is the 09 one . I got the set cheap earlier in the year after some people were pimping it and I checked out the match listings. Looks sick. Not even taken the wrapping off yet though :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

On last watch (beginning of summer) of cena/edge LMS it was ok, only problem I had was its pretty contrived and spotty, Edge's performance in it iirc was pretty poor, he was just looking for spots if that makes sense


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, HOLY SHIT at that Flying Chuck Kick. 

When is Bourne due back again? Would love to see Bourne/Rollins and Bourne/Bryan and Bourne/REIGNS.

Need to nab the Morrison DVD. Remember the match list being pretty great.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

The only GREAT match on the Morrison DVD is the one against Mysterio from 9/4/09 but I already have that match so I passed on buying


----------



## AttitudeEraMark4Life (Feb 20, 2013)

Has anyone picked up the new HHH DVD? Is it any good?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steiner Brothers vs. Bam Bam Bigelow & Vader (New Japan 6/26/92)* 

Always like this match, all throw each other about, could have done with a different finish IMO, but fuck it, i love it.

Can't find it on YT to post a link and the one on DM the quality is shit.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

RockFan01 said:


> Has anyone picked up the new HHH DVD? Is it any good?


If you're a fan of HHH it's worth getting. The doc is pretty good although it does leave out some important parts of his career and in turn focuses heavily on his relationship with Steph. The match listing is shit for the most part however


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Very underrated WWF tag match from Summerslam 1993, its gets talked about a bit i think but its excellent IMO.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

RockFan01 said:


> Has anyone picked up the new HHH DVD? Is it any good?


Just bought the DVD today and the documentary is really good. It's a good in-depth look on how he got started, coming up with his character, the MSG incident, and other events in his career leading up to him being COO of the WWE. I really enjoyed him talking about his relationship with Stephanie as I find it interesting to learn about both of their feelings about the whole thing. I think it's a great documentary even if you're not a HHH fan.

Also, LOL @ his match with Booker T at Summerslam 2007 being in the match listing. That match was garbage.


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

RockFan01 said:


> Has anyone picked up the new HHH DVD? Is it any good?


Way worth getting! The best Wrestling DVD I've ever seen.


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Just watched Rock/Shamrock from Royal Rumble 1998. Pretty good match this, back and forth and a logical ending. Such a great heel move from the Rock to put the brass knuckles in Shamrock's trucks and then later to convince the referee that Shamrock 'cheated'. Maybe not great but for a heel that was hated at the time, it sure did annoy the crowd to see the decision reversed. ***


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StraightEdgeJesus said:


> Just bought the DVD today and the documentary is really good. It's a good in-depth look on how he got started, coming up with his character, the MSG incident, and other events in his career leading up to him being COO of the WWE. I really enjoyed him talking about his relationship with Stephanie as I find it interesting to learn about both of their feelings about the whole thing. I think it's a great documentary even if you're not a HHH fan.
> 
> Also, LOL @ his match with Booker T at Summerslam 2007 being in the match listing. That match was garbage.


Just included for his return from injury i'd imagine.



RichardHagen said:


> Way worth getting! The best Wrestling DVD I've ever seen.







Doc sounds like it could be alot better, so can't see me buying it unless its reeeaaaaalllllly cheap tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like that RR 98 match, and I'm a big fan of the finish too.

HHH documentary is average, match listing is pretty shitty, and the few good matches on there have already been released (well, Iron Man in the UK anyway).


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Just included for his return from injury i'd imagine.


I guess that's a reason but still, the match is garbage lol.

I also kind of wished they would add some of his segments and promos in the bonus DVDs such as the interview with J.R. where he first called himself "The Game" and the DX segment where they made fun of The Nation, but I guess that's me being nit-picky.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

zep81 said:


> Just included for his return from injury i'd imagine.


They should've just included NYR 07 when he got injured instead. Much better match and can at least make up for the lack of Power Trip/Benoit & Jericho tag.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

What were the dates of the Orton/Edge Raw matches that were really good? I think one was for the IC title in 04 and the other one the day after Backlash(?) in 07?


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*4/30/07- Orton/Edge after Backlash and IC Title was 7/11/04 (Vengeance).*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> What were the dates of the Orton/Edge Raw matches that were really good? I think one was for the IC title in 04 and the other one the day after Backlash(?) in 07?


10 May 2004
19 July 2004
13 December 2004
30 April 2007


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks. Didn't realize there were 3 in 04. Is the Vengeance match Edge's return from neck injury in Canada where they shat on him? :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Very underrated WWF tag match from Summerslam 1993, its gets talked about a bit i think but its excellent IMO.


You should watch Steiners v. Quebecers Raw 9/13/93. Thought it was pretty friggin awesome and one of the best WWF tag matches of the 90s. Would have easily been Raw MOTY too if Doink didn't go on an awesome match rampage in the middle of 93. OOH I WANNA DO A BEST OF RAW LIST NOW.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Lady Killer said:


> Thanks. Didn't realize there were 3 in 04. Is the Vengeance match Edge's return from neck injury in Canada where they shat on him? :lmao


Nah, that's SummerSlam with Jericho and Batista. But they still cheered Orton over him in the Vengeance match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> OOH I WANNA DO A BEST OF RAW LIST NOW.


NO. Go watch something from 2010.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Well not NOW. Like, some other time. I'm going to start watching ER10 within the hour. I'll be out today and tomorrow during the day, but I'm not leaving for a few hours. So I can watch the stuff.

I can't find that ECW tag anywhere. I went to go watch it now and I only found a five minute clip of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll upload it for ya . Have you seen/can you find the Christian/Regal match from the week before (Jan 19th)? If not I'll do that too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I was about to say 'yes I can find that' because I've seen the match a couple times of youtube, but then I looked again just to be safe and it doesn't seem to be there any more.  So if you got that up too it'd be good. THANKS.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Has anyone recently watched Taker/Show from No Way Out 2003? It's damn good very methodical and hard hitting from both men.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Is that the match he used the Triangle Choke for the first time as ABA? I'm very high on Taker-Big Show matches, they tend to have some entertaining big man matches.*


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Here is bad news regarding the Money In The Bank Ladder Match Anthology DVD/Blu-ray set.



> Since this is a compilation of every MITB Ladder Match to date, that includes the very first one from WrestleMania 21 which Chris Benoit competed in. The match is in full rather than highlights but it is not without its edits. Firstly, the whole of Benoit’s entrance to the ring is cut out so the first you see of him is a shot of the ring where all competitors stand. Some commentary audio is muted such as when Benoit goes for the diving headbutt on Kane.
> 
> Additionally, some close-ups of Chris Benoit are cut out or modified. In the climax of the match the footage shown is from the arena ‘hard camera’. You see a wide shot of Edge entering the ring to hit Benoit with a chair, rather than how it originally aired with a close-up on Benoit who takes the surprise chairshot. You may also recall that Jim Ross had a line on commentary saying that Benoit deserves to win the match, and this has been taken out of the new version.


Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/shots-the-miz-hosting-wwe-mitb-anthology-dvd/53144/


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> Here is bad news regarding the Money In The Bank Ladder Match Anthology DVD/Blu-ray set.
> 
> Source - http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/shots-the-miz-hosting-wwe-mitb-anthology-dvd/53144/


This is fucking stupid. The match is 8 years old and they still feel like modifying it when the original version is easy to access. Luckily, it's no big loss since that match appears on The Ladder Match anyways.

Based on this, if WM XX triple threat appears in the HBK DVD, I'm convinced that they'll probably remove the finish completely, lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I am dying to see how they edit the WMXX three-way. Probably just zoom on HHH's bleeding face for the entirety of the crossface and post-match celebration. 


Only watched one match from ExRules so far and have already written 700 words on the show. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I were you I'd stop at one match from ER lol. Assuming it was Rey/Punk you watched first.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

From what I've seen, ER 2010 is not that bad. Jericho/Edge is kinda boring and Orton/Swagger is okay. But the main event was excellent.



Yeah1993 said:


> I am dying to see how they edit the WMXX three-way. Probably just zoom on HHH's bleeding face for the entirety of the crossface and post-match celebration.


Don't forget it'll probably be black and white. Or maybe not even that. Since it will be HBK's DVD, they'll probably show him laying on the outside for the entirety of the finish with the post-match stuff cut out when the bell rings.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They'll probably splice in random sequences from other HHH/HBK matches whenever Benoit is supposed to be in the match, and have Cole and Lawler re-do the entire commentary 8*D.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> This is fucking stupid. The match is 8 years old and they still feel like modifying it when the original version is easy to access. Luckily, it's no big loss since that match appears on The Ladder Match anyways.
> 
> Based on this, if WM XX triple threat appears in the HBK DVD, I'm convinced that they'll probably remove the finish completely, lol.


They'll probably show the exclusive, never before-seen footage of what HBK was doing as Benoit made HHH tap out. Who knows what we'll find out? Did he move a leg during it? An arm? Did he do push-ups? We finally get the answers! :mark:

Edit: lol, you beat me to it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sami Zayn Vs Jack Swagger - WWE.NXT.2013.9.4.HDTV

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/ks58nUYOcx6Xsq4MF3V

Took bloody long enough. Uploading dem ECDUB matches now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ha. In reality, he probably laid there for a minute and as they did the rollover move, got up and slowly walked to the back as Benoit made HHH tap out. So they would break kayfabe by showing that. 

It's always funny when wrestlers are seen walking to the back before a match is over (mostly tag matches) and we get a glimpse of it on camera.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

watched christian/zeke rr 10, yea its the goods, zeke was pretty good on offense while Christian sold the beating very well

Is Christian's 09 or 10 :mark: worthy ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> watched christian/zeke rr 10, yea its the goods, zeke was pretty good on offense while Christian sold the beating very well
> 
> *Is Christian's 09* or 10 :mark: worthy ?


Does ANYONE pay attention to me on here? 

Also,

Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26.01.2010

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kZR862mqgGdeXe4MFlv (Private)

Enjoy Yeah. YOU'D BETTER. It's still encoding atm but give it a minute or so.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I do all the time Cal  I know your doing ecw 10 but I hear about his 09 all the time, and arent you the one that pimps christian/swaggie 2/09 all the time ?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Honestly the hard camera cut is probably a better shot. I hate when WWE hides something from the viewer with camera work when the live crowd can it coming.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> I do all the time Cal  I know your doing ecw 10 but I hear about his 09 all the time, and arent you the one that pimps christian/swaggie 2/09 all the time ?


Are you SURE you pay attention to me? I'M DOING ECW 2009. I MADE A MEGAPOST ABOUT 2 DAYS AGO WITH AL MY CURRENT ECW 09 REVIEWS FEATURING LOTS OF CHRISTIAN. I POSTED ABOUT 4 REVIEWS TODAY FROM ECW 09... INCLUDING SOME CHRISTIAN MATCHES. AAARRGGHHHH.

Oh I have a blog too. [/had to get that one in]


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*That was a Michael Cole-esque plug there. #readtheblog. Reading Cal's megapost about the Summerslam "match" with Christian Regal did remind me of how disappointed I was when that rickety happened.*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Are you SURE you pay attention to me? I'M DOING ECW 2009. I MADE A MEGAPOST ABOUT 2 DAYS AGO WITH AL MY CURRENT ECW 09 REVIEWS FEATURING LOTS OF CHRISTIAN. I POSTED ABOUT 4 REVIEWS TODAY FROM ECW 09... INCLUDING SOME CHRISTIAN MATCHES. AAARRGGHHHH.
> 
> *Oh I have a blog too*. [/had to get that one in]


:ziggler1

"sees "top 5 reasons I hate the Miz" :lmao click, I'll find some christian goodies, I got confused after you said you upload that christian/zeke tag and thats ecw 2010


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/25184689-post9821.html link to my post with my ECW 09 reviews that I'd done months ago before randomly stopping reviewing any more like I always do when I start a project .


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Cleavage said:


> Has anyone recently watched Taker/Show from No Way Out 2003? It's damn good very methodical and hard hitting from both men.


Yup, a damn good match between them. A simple formula with both Big Show and Taker trying to overpower one another until Taker catches Show off guard with the Triangle chokehold. 

The Undertaker in 2003 was an interesting year for him in-ring wise. That's the year he started experimenting with new things in his matches. He got into great shape that year as well.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, we probably shouldn't expect the WM XX match on the HBK DVD. All that editing of the first MITB match is so ugh. 

Like C2D said, at least we still have the first Ladder match DVD. Think Benoit/Jericho is on that one also.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Like C2D said, at least we still have the first Ladder match DVD. Think Benoit/Jericho is on that one also.


As well as TLC III with Benoit in it. So yeah, we got lucky that DVD came out before the tragedy and they decided to put all the Benoit matches in there.

The worst part of the editing is not even the different camera angles as showing the ending using the hard camera is not that bad and Benoit's entrance is minor and lasts about 15 seconds. But rather the stupid editing out of the commentary. It feels so dumb to see Benoit stand on top of the ladder with the commentary muted completely for 10 secs.

It's better than nothing but we probably have another decade or so to wait before Benoit stops being such a taboo subject. I have a good feeling that it will come to a stop, though. Don't know when but they'll eventually get over it. (and I know there are some naysayers out there who are quick to go "No, it will never happen" but to hell with them)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I read a few months back that the Jimmy Snuka case (where he may or may not have killed his hooker girlfriend) was being reopened. If they ever got anything, Vince could go to jail for life for seemingly covering up a murder. Then the Benoit case would seem like small potatoes. 

And I feel like they've muted commentary before and it sounds so stupid. I've never thought about why.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The ladder DVD has Jericho/Benoit, TLC III, and the first MITB match. I think it came out mere months before his death


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not really a big deal about Benoit, most of his major wwe matches have been on other DVDs already, no need for them again

has the wm 20 three way ever been rereleased on a DVD ?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Not really a big deal about Benoit, most of his major wwe matches have been on other DVDs already, no need for them again
> 
> has the wm 20 three way ever been rereleased on a DVD ?


I have it on the Hard Knocks set I got used on Amazon for $17. That's a good price, I've seen it go for as high as $50. Luckily we have intelligent people in here who can discuss Benoit without people jumping all over you. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the guy suffered from severe mental disfunction at the end of his life. I got the original Ladder Match set new on Amazon for like $15-$20, well worth it just for Benoit/Jericho, HBK/Razor SS, and TLC III, let alone on the other great matches on there. It has Taker/Hardy too :mark:

I need something new and good to watch, preferably something that can be found on YT so I can watch it on my big screen. What have you fellas been watching lately? I'm bored and watching Taker/Trips WM17 for the 10th time. It's easily the best match they ever had IMO, twice as good as Wm28 and about a gazillions times better than 27. Only beef I have is them using that big soft mattress to land on when Taker choke slammed Haitch. I'd rather them not do the spot at all if they can't do it safely without a stunt mattress. Heyman on commentary is just great, he's just going on and on about Undertaker having criminal intentions :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

have you seen hbk/hardy raw 08 ? cjack


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> have you seen hbk/hardy raw 08 ? cjack


Fuck that's right! I put that on my playlist 3 days ago when you were talking about it with someone and never watched it. That's what I'm gonna put on thanks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

HBK vs Jeff Hardy Raw 2008 is sweet. Surprised you like it as much as you do Skins, you had said before you didn't like WM19 that much because of how flashy it was, well this was in that same vein I think. Absolutely awesome. Question though. How has HBK been wrestling for damn near 25 years at this point, and still not figured out how to put on a proper figure four? I got bored and put my girlfriend in it last week, it's really not hard at all if you start with a spinning toe hold like the Naitch does. HBK always, ALWAYS, fucks it up. Him putting it on wrong is the one flaw in their Mania 25 match with Taker, and as far as I see it's pretty much the only flaw in this match. Excellent, excellent Raw main event. ****


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The dislike for Triple H/Undertaker makes me really sad. 

Undertaker kicking out of the tombstone and locking in Hell's Gate soon after and Undertaker kicking out the SCM/Pedigree combo are two of my favorite moments ever. I can't think of anything negative to say about either match. I'm never going to forget looking around Sunlife Stadium and just taking everything in during that match. I remember looking out into the crowd and seeing grown me going insane. It was like everyone there was a kid again watching their favorite wrestlers have an amazing match. 

In short if you don't like those matches I hate you.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

thoughts on HBK vs Benoit in a RAW match leading up to mania 20? sounds sick on paper


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> thoughts on HBK vs Benoit in a RAW match leading up to mania 20? sounds sick on paper


Great match. Their match from 3rd May for the World Title is better, though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

great match indeed, Ive soften my stance on hbk/y2j abit since thanm its decent, btw I watched HHH/booker from the show last night, pretty good match as well

Was 08 the year hbk really incorporated naitch's moveset ? Never actually noticed he did it wrong, or maybe its the mark in me 


Edit: hbk/benoit raw 5/4 is very good


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its a shame those two never had a proper PPV match


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

TaylorFitz said:


> The dislike for Triple H/Undertaker makes me really sad.
> 
> Undertaker kicking out of the tombstone and locking in Hell's Gate soon after and Undertaker kicking out the SCM/Pedigree combo are two of my favorite moments ever. I can't think of anything negative to say about either match. I'm never going to forget looking around Sunlife Stadium and just taking everything in during that match. I remember looking out into the crowd and seeing grown me going insane. It was like everyone there was a kid again watching their favorite wrestlers have an amazing match.
> 
> In short if you don't like those matches I hate you.


What if I said I didn't _love_ the matches (well, I do kinda love the Mania 28 match)? Because the last thing I want is for you to hate me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Cactus Jack, *as you know I've been watching Del Rio matches.  You should watch this one cause it's been one of my favorites:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I had an out of body experience my first time watching the WM28 match between Trips and Taker and I still like it a lot, but my rating (if I did ratings for most matches ) for it has gone down quite a bit. I haven't seen 27 since it aired but I though it was easily MOTN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Cactus Jack, *as you know I've been watching Del Rio matches.  You should watch this one cause it's been one of my favorites:


I'm on an iPad, and for some reason I can't see the video you posted....which match is it?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Del Rio vs. Mysterio from Smackdown 10/8/10. Their 2 out of 3 Falls match from 1/7/2011 is also good, BUT if you're feelin ballsy I'd take a look at Del Rio vs. Kofi from Elimination Chamber 2011. Cause it's good.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Cause I can never seem to focus on just one project; I watched a crapload of 02-03 CW matches. Hardy-Kidman NWO '03-***3/4 * Hardy-Rey WM XIX -****2/3 * Hardy-Rey 05/06/03 SD ****3/4 * Kidman-Noble SS '02 -***2/3.* Tajiri-Noble NM 02 - ***1/2*


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

rjsbx1 said:


> Cause I can never seem to focus on just one project; I watched a crapload of 02-03 CW matches. Hardy-Kidman NWO '03-***3/4 * Hardy-Rey WM XIX -****2/3 * Hardy-Rey 05/06/03 SD ****3/4 * Kidman-Noble SS '02 -***2/3.* Tajiri-Noble NM 02 - ***1/2*


Check out the Triple Threat match between Rey Mysterio, Tajiri, and Jamie Noble from Smackdown 3/6/03 if you haven't seen that match yet. Then check out the Tajiri vs Billy Kidman from Smackdown 10/2/03 if you haven't seen that one either. Two fantastic gems.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Del Rio vs. Mysterio from Smackdown 10/8/10. Their 2 out of 3 Falls match from 1/7/2011 is also good, BUT if you're feelin ballsy I'd take a look at Del Rio vs. Kofi from Elimination Chamber 2011. Cause it's good.



Yea I don't know if I can stomach a Kofi/ADR match, so I will take your word for it. Is that Smackdown match the one where Rey comes back from injury, a broken arm I think? I think I saw it on the Best of 2011 set, possibly. At any rate, the one I saw was pretty damn awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Yea I don't know if I can stomach a Kofi/ADR match, so I will take your word for it. Is that Smackdown match the one where Rey comes back from injury, a broken arm I think? I think I saw it on the Best of 2011 set, possibly. At any rate, the one I saw was pretty damn awesome.


The 10/8/10 is the one where he comes back from a fractured wrist. It's on the _Life of a Masked Man _set. Their 2/3 Falls match is on the 2011 RAW/SD set.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

SLIM SHADY LP™;25241977 said:


> Check out the Triple Threat match between Rey Mysterio, Tajiri, and Jamie Noble from Smackdown 3/6/03 if you haven't seen that match yet. Then check out the Tajiri vs Billy Kidman from Smackdown 10/2/03 if you haven't seen that one either. Two fantastic gems.


*You just reminded me of how fun and awesome that triple threat is. Mysterio was such a joy to watch before be broke down. :lmao Noble's selling the reverse 619 though *


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I didn't see much of Jamie Noble because I was away from wrestling until 2008. All I remember of him live was when they were getting Sheamus over when he first came to RAW and "retired" Noble. Noble did some dope selling for the Irishman.

Edit: Here that is.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> Is Christian's 09 or 10 :mark: worthy ?


REALLY!?



Callamus said:


> Christian & Kane Vs William Regal & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 26.01.2010
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kZR862mqgGdeXe4MFlv (Private)
> 
> Enjoy Yeah. YOU'D BETTER. It's still encoding atm but give it a minute or so.


Or I could give it multiple hours.  

(Y) Will watch before the day ends (it's quarter to 4 where I am). 100% swear. I mean it.



Cactus Jack said:


> How has HBK been wrestling for damn near 25 years at this point, and still not figured out how to put on a proper figure four? I got bored and put my girlfriend in it last week,


Well I need to write SOMETHING here.

--------

Anybody wanting good cruiser shite should be watching Rey/Tajiri 9/23/03, No Mercy 03, and 1/1/04. And other Rey/Tajiris but I remember those three dates and not the others. Those are the best three anyway, IIRC. WILLYS!


----------



## Walter Sobchak (Dec 22, 2012)

I've seen a couple posts on here about getting high and watching wrestling, I was curious and for the first time, I tried it tonight. Ric Flair matches have been getting the most attention, throw in some Vader and other pre-Nitro WCW and I'm having a ball. 

Showing my casual fan, friend Flair for the first time is the best part.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> You should watch Steiners v. Quebecers Raw 9/13/93. Thought it was pretty friggin awesome and one of the best WWF tag matches of the 90s. Would have easily been Raw MOTY too if Doink didn't go on an awesome match rampage in the middle of 93. OOH I WANNA DO A BEST OF RAW LIST NOW.


Thanks for that, forgot about that match  I thought it was on the Raw: The Beginning DVD set but it isn't, bern meaning to ask about 'best Steiner Brothers' matches.

Watched a couple last night, Wrestlewar 1992, Summerslam 1993, vs Bam Bam/Vader.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc is a must.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Some new uploads:

FCW - Dean Ambrose vs Damien Sandow - FCW 15 Championship - Dec11-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7GwJAIEA6R5fb4MIjJ (Private)

Impact 4.13.2006 - Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7MOkPzONCzNxL4MHGF (Private)

Goldust Vs Sheamus - wwe.superstars.2009.08.13

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7kiO46lJjKgD64MHu3 (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose II - July15-12

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3jRtwpIWU51DI4MHep (Private)

FCW - William Regal vs Dean Ambrose I - FCW TV - Nov6-11

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kzxHU4gA5yW2zW4MGoG (Private)

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 19.01.2010

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4H8o2dmwt03nr4MFL8 (Private)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust vs Sheamus. (Y)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Seamus . I do miss the guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He needs to pull a Cena and be a freak to return asap.

Totally rewatched the Battleground tag team match. Got better on the second go around. I'm overjoyed atm.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Nevermind that shit, watch the Ambrose/Regal series!


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd prefer he give himself the time he needs to rest up and take a break. Cena's inhuman and all but he's only doing damage in the long run. The guy doesn't know how to take time off. While it's admirable in a lot of ways it's very sad too. When he actually can't wrestle any more he's going to be lost. I can live with an epic Rumble return for Seamus, especially if they give him a spot where he comes in and just goes HAM on a bunch of jobbers, eliminating all around him and getting a final 4 spot to go with it. That would be fun.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Rah said:


> Nevermind that shit, watch the Ambrose/Regal series!


As someone who rewatched this last week, absolutely get on that shit.


Also watched the two Rhodes/Shield tags. Thought Raw was the better of the two but man those were both some real, real good matches. Reigns has come on a ton in a year or so.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Steiners vs Nasty Boys from Halloween Havoc is a must.


Well i have a small custom comp with these matches on it:



> Best of Steiners Created by keith_h32
> 
> Disc 1
> Steiner Brothers vs. Mike Rotunda & Sullivan (GAB 1989 7/23/89)
> ...



IMO, its missing a couple of exeptions though:



> The Steiner Brothers vs. The Outsiders (NWO Souled Out 1997)
> The Steiner Brothers vs. The Headshrinkers (WWF Wrestlemania 9)
> The Steiner Brothers vs. Harlem Heat (WCW Road Wild 1996)
> The Steiner Brothers vs. Team 3D (2 Out of 3 Tables Match - TNA Bound for Glory 2007)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Titles vs Masks match vs DOOM made it. Ending is comical in that one. Good to see the match vs Nasty Boys make it. (Y)

Regal vs Ambrose matches are wicked. The real question is, why is it taking some so long to watch? Should have seen that when it was put online back in 2011. REGAL.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Plus the awesome Steiner/Goldberg match as a bonus :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skipped over the bonus matches, haha. Match vs Awesome is just that too - awesome.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I think I remember seeing somewhere that xwt has a sister site for music etc. Anybody know what it is? Would be helpful .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> I think I remember seeing somewhere that xwt has a sister site for music etc. Anybody know what it is? Would be helpful .


All4nothing?



Shepard said:


> As someone who rewatched this last week, absolutely get on that shit.
> 
> 
> Also watched the two Rhodes/Shield tags. Thought Raw was the better of the two but man those were both some real, real good matches. Reigns has come on a ton in a year or so.


One of the times I love being proven wrong. When they pulled Reigns up (then known as Leakee) I thought it was too soon. He didn't grab me, despite having the look. I'm not sure if they've hidden him really, really well (I doubt this) or he's just stepped up to the plate in such an explosive manner. His mannerisms are beautiful.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

zep81 said:


> Well i have a small custom comp with these matches on it:
> 
> IMO, its missing a couple of exeptions though:


Missing the third Williams/Gordy match as well. and of course that incredible Quebecers match. :mark:



Yeah1993 said:


> (Y) Will watch before the day ends (it's quarter to 4 where I am). 100% swear. I mean it.


I shouldn't have said this, but I did. So I watched it. I am now glad I said it.

Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
I could talk about how this was basically two FIP parts that worked, but I won’t. Because we have BEEFIE ACTION! Zeke’s reaction to Kane first coming in was super. Even a big guy like him would be all ‘oh shit it’s Kane’, but he instead has this ‘yeah, hyehehe, that’s the shit I want, he ain’t got nothin’ on me’ look on his face. Then they collide like BEEFIES and he literally yells out loud ‘YOU AIN’T GOT NOTHIN’ ON ME!’ Instead of colliding like BEEFIES some more Kane slaps on a headlock which I guess is logical but kind of….I mean, like, you just collided like beephies and it ruled. Do that again. AND HOLY SHIT THEY DO! After some more collision and more Zeke Yelling, Kane throws some strikes and Zeke sells them absolutely perfectly. I mean it – he tilts his head, scrunches his face, slants his body and goes to one knee, and that alone builds up a pretty badass ‘can Kane knock this fucker over’ moment. The moment where Kane actually knocks the fucker over is only a few seconds away, but it felt good. If only they hadn’t wasted time with the headlock. I was watching Jackson pretty closely in this because I liked him a lot in the title match with Christian, and I liked him probably even more here. He was doing one cool thing after another; continuing to sell shots like he did, having one of those missed clotheslines where he just swings it and doesn’t give a fuck if his opponent is too stupid to duck it, and any of his headlock varieties look like they’ll rip a spine out because of his hufuckinmungous arms. I want to revisit his stuff, especially his squashes (mainly because he seems a little bit lost whenever he’s on someone for more than a bit). I thought this was a unique match for Regal, because he actually comes off as the much quicker guy on his team. As everybody who’s watched three Regal matches would know he’s vicious and nasty and rough (the torque he was putting on Kane’s leg ruled, btw), but he seemed more quickly violent in this and I liked that. He’s got a big and fairly slow-ass partner, so watching him kind of buzz around was cool and not something I’m used to seeing from him. Even in the opening ‘we exchange techy bullshit’ part with Christian, he was faster than usual. I’m actually tired of bringing up how much I love Christian’s selling, but I just do. It’s so, God, what do I say? Fluid? I don’t know, really, something just works. Maybe some other time when I’m not tired I’ll be able to come up with a way to describe it. I will mention that one stand-out sell where Zeke clocks him while he’s on his face, and he just collapses into the bottom rope. And, also, that one forearm when Christian was on the top rope and leaned backwards so he lay over the ring post. And, also, HOLY FUCKING FUCK. That Irish whip where Christian decides it’d be a great idea to fly over the top rope (from the middle of the ring) and randomly land somewhere, sweet holy shit that was goddamn incredible. I thought this match got a little messy and weird near the end, but one awkward minute doesn’t break 15 awesome minutes. I won’t be surprised if this is my highest tag unless I’m forgetting a key 2010 tag. ADDING.

Had to read what I wrote to decide if I wanted this ahead of Christian/Zeke. Decided on no, but it's really, really close. I want both to stay in the top 25. 

Current list:



Spoiler: WHATTUP?



1.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (SmackDown 2/12/10)
2.	Christian v. Drew McIntyre (SmackDown 7/16/10)
3.	Christian v. Ezekiel Jackson (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
4.	Christian/Kane v. William Regal/Ezekiel Jackson (ECW 1/26/10)
5.	Shawn Michaels v. The Undertaker (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
6.	William Regal v. Evan Bourne (SuperStars 3/4/10)
7.	The Undertaker v. Rey Mysterio (Royal Rumble 1/31/10)
8.	Drew McIntyre v. Kaval (SmackDown 9/10/10)
9.	Rey Mysterio v. CM Punk (WrestleMania 3/28/10)
10.	d
11.	d
12.	d
13.	d
14.	d
15.	d
16.	d
17.	d
18.	d
19.	d
20.	d
21.	d
22.	d
23.	d
24.	d
25.	d

Other contenders:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didn't realise there was a third match with Williams/Gordy, do you know where/when?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Late September of 92 in WCW. Could be Saturday Night 9/26/92 (that's the date of the awesome Dustin Rhodes/Jake Roberts methinks so I might be getting them confused). Not as good as the other two matches, but still a HOOT.


EDIT - Foundy linky. Got the date right, but it's WorldWide and not WCWSN. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xca0gc_steiner-brothers-vs-steve-williams_sport


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Considering that was 100+ words of praise, that's probably my pick for favorite Yeah1993 write up of 2013.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Late September of 92 in WCW. Could be Saturday Night 9/26/92 (that's the date of the awesome Dustin Rhodes/Jake Roberts methinks so I might be getting them confused). Not as good as the other two matches, but still a HOOT.
> 
> 
> EDIT - Foundy linky. Got the date right, but it's WorldWide and not WCWSN. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xca0gc_steiner-brothers-vs-steve-williams_sport


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:clap for that match.

Between that and Hell No & Kofi/Shield, it's a stiff fight for Tag MOTY of 2013.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And Shield vs Hell No.

I'm gonna have to call that my MOTY just to make sure it doesn't keep getting forgotten.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/2 for Zayn/Bo from NXT, great match, Zayn was a star here, you should definetely check it out


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> And Shield vs Hell No.
> 
> I'm gonna have to call that my MOTY just to make sure it doesn't keep getting forgotten.


That was amazing too, but I much prefer the other two. No chance I'd forget myself such a smooth Tag Team masterpiece though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All three leave me feeling :lenny


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that hell no/shield tag is one of the only matches I seem to disagree with Cody about. Its good but not GREAT to me, the shield/rhodes bro. tag are just :mark:

I watched that christian/zeke rumble match yesterday, mind was blown


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shield/Hell No to put it short had all the great elements of Shield/Rhodes Battleground, except for the emotion 
Great stuff imo.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> And Shield vs Hell No.
> 
> I'm gonna have to call that my MOTY just to make sure it doesn't keep getting forgotten.


What is the date of that match again? You're talking about the AMAZING contest after ER, right? I have a bunch of Raw's saved on my hard drive from this year I'm just having a hard time finding that one.

Until I watch it again to be sure, I'm gonna have to saw the Rhodes/Shield tag on Raw was the best tag of the year....so Far! They still have a lot of mileage to to in this rivalry. Nothing beats great, heated, tag matches for me. They just leave me smiling and acting giddy.


----------



## Shepard (Apr 30, 2011)

Rewatching Ambrose/Sandow. I miss the FCW 15 



Rah said:


> One of the times I love being proven wrong. When they pulled Reigns up (then known as Leakee) I thought it was too soon. He didn't grab me, despite having the look. I'm not sure if they've hidden him really, really well (I doubt this) or he's just stepped up to the plate in such an explosive manner. His mannerisms are beautiful.



I think the improvement has definitely been gradual. I've noticed him adding more and more mannerisms and smack talking to his attacks since he joined the group. Really adds to the impact his moves have on their own.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Shepard said:


> Rewatching Ambrose/Sandow. I miss the FCW 15
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Definitely. I think Roman is just a natural, the dudes a Somoan, just about all Somoans can fucking work, for whatever reason. Even the Usos can go a bit, even if I find them childish and annoying. Reigns started off as the enforcer type with the great look, and has evolved into an all around power house work horse whose character work is every bit as good as the much more heralded Ambrose. I'm very excited for the potential of all the guys in The Shield, but Reigns to me seems like World Champion material, more so than anyone else. He just seems to "get it". 

Last week on Raw, when Goldust was in the ring with Reigns and had dropped the chair, Reigns just started going HAM on Dustin and shouted "YOU IDIOT! YOU NEVER DROP THE CHAIR!". How great is that? Other than Brock and Taker, I probably mark harder for Reigns when he's doing his thing over anyone else.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Callamus said:


> Impact 4.13.2006 - Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7MOkPzONCzNxL4MHGF (Private)


:hb :hb :hb

<3

I know this isn't the place to talk TNA, but if theres on thread in the WWE section I can pimp a TNA match, it['s this one. Ladies and Gentlemen, whether you love or hate TNA, you need to watch this match. NEED to. I absolutely adore it, and I owe it all to Cody for telling me to watch it a few years back. It's fucking awesome and one of the best possible ways to kill 10 minutes.

DO IT. NOW.

:daniels


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was a big TNA fan from 2004 (FSN baby!) to 2007, which is weird because I'm also an Angle mark and I just stopped watching. From what I see in the TNA section, it's been crap for a while though 

Oh right, WWE. I probably won't be watching much today because I'm gonna be on GTA with my crew, but I'm gonna watch my SSlam 13 DVD tomorrow while I'm cooking my rare CHEAT MEAL~! :rock


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

On my way home after a long week. Finishing the ladder match DVD before I head out to a haunted house tonight. Tomorrow and Sunday will be devoted to my KOTR project. Attempting to watch KOTR 1995 without vomiting. 1994 or 1997 up after that 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

That KOTR 1995 card... :taker

WWE just released the dates for 2014's PPV events. If they bring SummerSlam back to LA or do any show in California, Vegas, or Phoenix... :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Def going to SummerSlam again if it's in LA.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SSlam in LA was such a great experience. I'd definitely recommend going to Axxess too. I got to see AJ up close :homer :mark: :cena5


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't get your hopes that next year's SSlam will be as good as this 

(And to think that, had Shield/Black Show happened, it could've been even better...)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Speaking of TNA, I just decided to watch my second TNA match ever, the only one I'd seen was Flair/Foley LMS. I asked a buddy to reccomend one and he said the Styles vs Daniels vs Somoa Joe at Unbreakable 2005 was one of his favorite matches ever, and a better triple threat than WM20.

I have to say, I'm pretty blown away right now. That was one of the craziest things I've ever seen, they found a way to constantly involve all 3 guys, and there was just shit CONSTANTLY going on. Not a lot of story telling, selling, or psychology, but for a flashy spot fest, this is one of the best I've ever seen. Very entertaining, but not the type of match i usually adore. Once was enough for me. Very fun though.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I hope Summerslam isn't in LA for like the 5th year in a row again, it should be somewhere else


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I can proudly say I've never seen a episode of TNA like ever, ive only seen that triple threat ppl jizz over and foley/flair LMS


yea bring summerslam here to NYC !

You on Ps3 PG ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Only TNA match I have watched in full is Angle vs Jeff Hardy from No Surrender. Needed something to laugh at and heard that one is a finisher fest for 40 minutes so I went through with it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sting vs a drugged Jeff Hardy is the GOAT TNA match. But that's probably where the TNA talk should end in here.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Could name 10-15 TNA matches I prefer over that Joe/Daniels/Styles match. Arguably the most overrated match of the millenium, one of the most overrated of all time.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I will say that flair/foley LMS is stellar for their age/gimmick and its only like 12 mins


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ill be able to upload a couple of matches the weekend if you have a request (only a couple though lol)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> I can proudly say I've never seen a episode of TNA like ever, ive only seen that triple threat ppl jizz over and foley/flair LMS
> 
> 
> yea bring summerslam here to NYC !
> ...


Nah, 360. I'm gonna get the PS4 though, because the XBOne sounds like shit 

I'm actually in the mood to watch some wrestling rn, but I have a math test in less than 2 hours :side: Luckily, the study material is online so I can browse.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

So instead of rating takers wm matches all the time, how bout rating mr wrestlemanias everyone? HBK 

Top ten 

1. Vs Taker WM 25. *****
2. Vs HHH vs Beniot WM 20. *****
3. Vs Taker WM 26. ****3/4
4. Vs Cena WM 23. ****3/4
5. Vs Angle WM 21. ****1/2
6. Vs Jericho WM 19. ****1/2
7. Vs Razor Ramon WM 10. ****1/4
8. Vs Ric Flair WM 24. ****
9. Vs Austin WM 14. ****
10. Vs Bret WM 12. ***3/4

I may overrated hbk/Cena but I don't care, I recently rewatched this and its FUCKING AWESOME. I've also seen a pot of people drop their rating for his match with angle, i'll have to rewatch it soon. It held up for me last time though. 

His match with McMahon wasn't bad either, but I'll always be butthurt because I attended WM 22 and wanted to see HBK steal the show live 

***1/2 for HBK/ MCMAHON.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I'd personally have the WM 24 match at 2 under WM 25. Flair/HBK is ***** IMO


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> I'd personally have the WM 24 match at 2 under WM 25. Flair/HBK is ***** IMO




I love it...... I still scream at Michaels backflip on the announcers table. Yikes!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If only Flair ended with that match


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> So instead of rating takers wm matches all the time, how bout rating mr wrestlemanias everyone?


I'm confused... you don't want our Undertaker WM ratings but you want Mr WrestleMania's WM ratings... THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON!!! It's like in Iron Man 2 when the report states that Iron Man is good for The Avengers but Tony Stark isn't. THEY BOTH BE THE SAME~!

:mark: at a bunch of discussion coming from matches I uploaded . :mark: at Yeah liking that tag match (my #2 for 2010 btw lol).

Just got Hogan & Backlund Legends of Wrestling DVD this morning. Was never released in the UK so I imported it for like £2.50. Probably cost them more to post it!!! Roundtable discussion on BACKLUND and Hogan... PLUS 3 matches from each guy? Including Backlund Vs BUDDY ROSE? Hells ya!

Taking advantage of that Shield/Rhodes tag being in full on YT by downloading it in HD to save just in case it goes offline (they did it with Punk/Cena, right? I know I was asked to upload it since I still had it, so I'm assuming they took it down).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Taking advantage of that Shield/Rhodes tag being in full on YT by downloading it in HD to save just in case it goes offline (they did it with Punk/Cena, right? I know I was asked to upload it since I still had it, so I'm assuming they took it down).


Yes they did :angry: I made sure i grabbed the tag match before they took that off too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll be uploading it to DM at some point anyway, so it'll always be available for us .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'll do the notables still nobody cares about tito santana and tanaka 

razor wm 10 *****
nash *** 1/4
bret DUD
austin *** ( more of a moment type thing)
Y2J ****
hhh/benoit **** 1/4
angle *
vince never seen
cena ****-1/4 ( underrated)
flair ****1/4 ( favorite match ever)
taker I *****
taker II *****


Gonna watch that ecw tag Cal uploaded


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

* for HBK/angle? Is that normal guys?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont like mat-wrestling

If Zep asked like 2 days ago, I'd probably have like 5 matches for him to upload, but I cant think of anything right now


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do love HBK's 'heelish' stuff during the Cena match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> * for HBK/angle? Is that normal guys?


LOOK IT MY EYES, WHAT DO YOU SEE ? *THE CULT OF PERSONALITY 
* !

why did I just do this ?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like how easy it is nowadays to download videos from youtube and dailymotion. I remember it being hell to download from the former back when the site was only getting going (around 2006 time) and if you'd download it, it would come in awful quality. (although most videos had shit quality, period)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> I dont like mat-wrestling
> 
> If Zep asked like 2 days ago, I'd probably have like 5 matches for him to upload, but I cant think of anything right now


 Lemme know if you have 1 or 2 you need if i have them, as ill only have time for a couple as i have some downloads to grab lol.



Choke2Death said:


> I like how easy it is nowadays to download videos from youtube and dailymotion. I remember it being hell to download from the former back when the site was only getting going (around 2006 time) and if you'd download it, it would come in awful quality. (although most videos had shit quality, period)


Yeah, thank fuck for add-on's for browsers lol.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Fuck man. This Jake the Snake doc is the most tragic shit ever.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*HBK Wrestlemania Ratings:*
vs. Twin Towers -****
vs. Orient Express- **3/4*
vs. Barbaian/Haku - ****
vs. Tito Santana/El Matador ****
vs. Tatanka -***3/4 *(I HATE the finish.)
vs. Razor Ramon - *****2/3*
vs. Diesel - *****
vs. Bret - *ZZZ.* I mean: *-***
vs. Austin -***** (considering the shape they were in.)
vs. Jericho - *****1/2*
vs. Triple H and Vacant -*******
vs. Angle- ****3/4* (Vengeance match was MUCH better.)
vs. McMahon- ***2/3* (Twas a fun match + JR :mark: out about Vince getting his ass kicked is priceless)
vs. Cena - *****1/2*
vs. Flair- ******
vs. Taker (25)- *******
vs. Taker (26)- *****3/4*​


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I marked for the Piledriver on the steel steps from HBK/Cena. That, and HBK tapping out like a bitch is all that I remember from the match lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Its a very good match, only negative I can think of is its a bit lengthy but it never bothers me,


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I have no complaints about Cena/HBK from WM 23, I thought it was just a great match all the way through.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Primer said:


> Considering that was 100+ words of praise, that's probably my pick for favorite Yeah1993 write up of 2013.


HEH! Sometimes I actually have more fun shitting on a match.  I'm certain I have more fun READING someone shit on a match. My favourite write-up ever is still probably Seabs' of Hardy/Angle No Surrender which I first read three years ago. He completely destroyed everything involved in the match and declared it the worst thing he'd ever seen. T'was glorious.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Def going to SummerSlam again if it's in LA.


I hope to be with you again


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> HEH! Sometimes I actually have more fun shitting on a match.  I'm certain I have more fun READING someone shit on a match. My favourite write-up ever is still probably Seabs' of Hardy/Angle No Surrender which I first read three years ago. He completely destroyed everything involved in the match and declared it the worst thing he'd ever seen. T'was glorious.


Do you have the link to the write-up? I also have more fun reading a negative review rather than positive, be it wrestling, music, movies or anything else.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> Do you have the link to the write-up? I also have more fun reading a negative review rather than positive, be it wrestling, music, movies or anything else.


Yeah, I'm the same. There's a reason I only know about certain current music if ToddInTheShadows has brought it up.

~



> Kurt Angle vs Jeff Hardy - No Surrender 2010
> 
> Fucking hell. I went into it knowing I wouldn't like it because I read of all the stupid TNA shenanigans in the match but a lot of people had been saying up to that point it was a brilliant wrestling match. Fuck off btw. This is legit one of the worst matches I have ever had to sit through.
> 
> ...


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Damn. Just, damn.

I'll need to watch those HBK Mania matches. Kind of dread the thought of sitting through the Iron Man again, but I'll probably do it. 

Despite the hatred that most of their matches get, I do wish that Shawn and Trips faced off at a Mania. I'm glad Benoit was involved at 20 because we got that awesome Triple Threat.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao

Sums up that complete mess perfectly. And to think that there are idiots out there who consider _that_ a "great wrestling match" is hilarious.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*:lmao That's such a masterpiece, especially the part where he just shits on Tazz's commentary. I love reading (and writing) negative rants and reviews.*


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

need something to watch before I go out


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Greg, did you just say that nobody cares about Tito Santana? If I ever bothered to request a signature pic, I would do one of him. Dude was consistently great. Probably had more good matches for the WWE throughout the 80s than almost anyone. Probably not as many as Bret or maybe Savage, but still a lot of good stuff.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Despite the fact that I stopped watching TNA full time sometime in 2007, I remember streaming Angle vs. Hardy and the triple threat with...Anderson(?) the month after that year. I'm as big an Angle mark as you'll find, but Angle vs. Hardy legit made me laugh with all those damn finishers. :kurt

Currently watching SD because I wanna see the main event :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

^^ haha I was joking you see the smiley after tito is pretty good, I just said that because nobody ever talks about those hbk mania matches ever and just go straight to the ladder one, just like for taker they skip the mania 19 tag and henry wm 22 all the time


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SD main event was good. More chaotic Shield goodness in the finishing stretch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That powerbomb to Cody on Goldust will be the second most underappreciated spot of the year behind Cesaro's school boy powerbomb on Bo Dallas.

Punk/Langston was pretty good too. Langston is starting to learn how to fill in those little time gaps and rest holds with something productive. I liked how he clubbed those forearms on Punk when he did his chinlock/leg crab. Very Finlay-like. He hasn't really shown it yet, but I have confidence that Langston will improve heavily in the next few years. A couple sessions with Mark Henry should do the trick.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched the Wrestlemania XX triple threat again. Still holds up beautifully as a classic with the greatest ending to a match ever. ★★★★★. I did pay more attention to the blade jobs, though. Both were unnecessary and definition of overkill, which has been the case with HBK and HHH in that era.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I watched that match for my Trips project and yeah, it's amazing. What'd you think of the Backlash match? Shawn Michaels getting booed like that post-1999 is just weird. Cool for Benoit, though. Backlash match is damn near as good as the WM match, imo.

Might go back and watch those again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

decided to abandon my KOTR project for now, felt like picking up after cal and doing 2002 PPV reviews since their all on youtube and he said he isn't doing it again. probably wont go into as much deph as him. Havent reviewed any 2002 PPVS yet so that leaves a lot open. not sure what to start with, definitely not going in order and saving Summerslam for last. Pulling a wrestling all nighter tonight and I'm gonna stop watching the ladder DVD after this MITB match. first post should be up by tomorrow morning at the very least.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Backlash rematch is amazing too. Almost as good as WM, it just didn't have the same emotion into it even if it's nearly up there with Benoit's family at ringside and the hometown crowd. Speaking of crowd, it's way better than the half-dead WM crowd.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I can never finish the BL match for some reason, lose focus

The mania match is amazing, it's just missing that one thing for me from being the full five


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I guess the MSG crowd was pissed at Goldberg/Lesnar and Kane/Taker and quit giving a fuck. Edmontonwas a GOAT crowd, however.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I guess the MSG crowd was pissed at Goldberg/Lesnar and Kane/Taker and quit giving a fuck. Edmontonwas a GOAT crowd, however.


Don't forget Eddie/ Angle. Very disappointing match for me. 

***1/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

watching backlash 2002, thoughts on this? card looks awesome and tajiri/Kidman opening match is :mark: so far.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

KOTR PPVs usually sucked, so it's a good choice to end that project. Even in good PPV years, KOTR was weak in comparison to the other shows (2000, 2001).

WM XX Triple Threat is my pick for second best match in company history. BL Triple Threat might be the second best WHC match ever behind its predecessor. And Benoit's WHC might be my favorite world title reign ever. Tis a shame that :hbk2 :jpl had to overshadow him towards the end, but at least he got to main event Summerslam.

I liked Eddie/Angle, but I can understand it being pretty dull and lifeless for much of the beginning portion. Their 2/3 Falls match is my favorite from them. Curse that Summerslam match.

EDIT: Backlash 2002 kinda sucked, but the undercard has good stuff. The double main event was pretty horrible and HHH/Hogan might be a legit DUD. KingCal gave a pretty good justification for why Undertaker/Austin has some salvageable portions. Angle/Edge is a semi-guilty pleasure of mine. I only say semi because it gets praise, but I have it in my top five matches from that year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That powerbomb to Cody on Goldust will be the second most underappreciated spot of the year behind Cesaro's school boy powerbomb on Bo Dallas.
> 
> Punk/Langston was pretty good too. Langston is starting to learn how to fill in those little time gaps and rest holds with something productive. I liked how he clubbed those forearms on Punk when he did his chinlock/leg crab. Very Finlay-like. He hasn't really shown it yet, but I have confidence that Langston will improve heavily in the next few years. A couple sessions with Mark Henry should do the trick.


Yeah that was sweet. And Rollins is the best bumper in the business. Dude just doesn't give a fuck. He treats wrestling rings, barricades and announce tables like if they're trampolines or swimming pools or anything that wouldn't hurt to fling yourself into. Every time Bryan goes for his suicide dive and Rollins is on the receiving end (which has been quite a few times this year) I get excited. 

Also, Cody fuckin Rhodes. Always thought he was a decent hand but never really cared about him. He got me interested with his character changing performance at Money in the Bank. The Goldust/Shield stuff has me completely behind him. 

Other thoughts: 

- I approve of whoever decided to get an actual tag division going again. It was refreshing to see three teams (Matadores, Real Americans, Usos) interacting on SmackDown and two more teams in the main event. 
- Michael Cole is by far the best announcer in the company. Lawler has sucked for a long time but now JBL is annoying as fuck. 
- Big Show's KO punch has rarely looked as jaw crunching as it did on Brad Maddox.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I ended the KOTR project funnyfaces because I legit had no desire to see most of them except 97,98, 94, and 93. Maybe I will get back to it later but because I dont have a ton of time why not move on to bigger and better things.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

While thinking of random matches to watch, I went with Orton vs Mysterio from No Way Out. ★★★★ for this. Orton's performance is just wonderful but it's funny that no matter how much he acts like a dick, the crowd still cheer him. Michael Cole's commentary was also hilarious. "This is what you goaded Mysterio into, you got what you wanted now end the damn match". :lol



funnyfaces1 said:


> WM XX Triple Threat is my pick for second best match in company history. BL Triple Threat might be the second best WHC match ever behind its predecessor. And Benoit's WHC might be my favorite world title reign ever. Tis a shame that :hbk2 :jpl had to overshadow him towards the end, but at least he got to main event Summerslam.


Yep, he got to main event all the big four PPVs that year.  He really deserved it.

EDIT: While on the topic of Benoit, look what I found. :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

too bad Benoit's 2006-2007 were nothing special, if it wasn't for his death I'm sure he would of gotten another main event push. Hell, we know he would be the face of ECW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Benoit's 2006 was very special, especially for someone who was only around for a few months. The Orton series, the Finlay matches, the Regal matches, a bunch of tags, Henry, Chavo, and even Kennedy from what I remember.

Don't recall much from 2007 except for his match with Edge on Smackdown and his atrocity with Cena.

EDIT: Finally watched Punk/Benoit vs. Cor Von/Burke. Match was pretty fun and it was a nice spectacle to see two of my favorites teaming up. The ending however was horrible and Cor Von and Burke both suck. Punk and Benoit were both very very over. It would have been nice to see Benoit have a Christian-like ECW Title reign.

The real highlight though is that girl dancing to Benoit's theme song after the match. :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

yeah I probably havent seen enough 2006 to judge Benoit's year haha. 

2 matches left on backlash 2002, got about an hour left. 2 bad looking matches but the undercard has been solid so far. Next PPV I will do is Unforgiven I think.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Backlash 2002 review​*
*Considering my 2002 reviews will no doubt be Bork-heavy, will start out this project with his debut!​*
*Match # 1: Tajiri vs Billy Kidman( Cruiserweight title match)*

Fuck yes, this will be a beautiful to what could be a very disappointing PPV even though all I know is that Hulk Hogan and HHH are fighting and Jeff Hardy will be squashed by Bork. Taking a look at the card reveals that this PPV has a ton of potential, lets hope it lives up to the hype. Anyway back to tbe opening match, I love cruiserweight matches and this one is no different, awesome opener, and a VERY high paced match. What a match, 2 extremely athletic guys who don’t make a spot fest, because its pure talent, perfect mix of mat wrestling and a brawl. Relatively short match but it was never boring, I could see an hour long match between these two, beautiful opener. ****

*CAL SCALE: 5*

*Match # 2: Scott Hall vs Bradshaw*

This could be a DUD or it could be good, you never know with these guys, they always seem up and down when it comes to in ring stuff, at least at this point in their career. Pretty shitty match, and I really had no interest in it. I forget if the Hall/SCSA match at WM 18 was any good but IDK if Hall could work a good match in his short run with the WWF/E in 2002,Probably why his run was so short. Luckily this is kept short, *. 

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 3: Trish Stratus vs Jazz (womens title)*

I hate 90% of womens matches, but Trish and Jazz might be able to pull off a decent match. Still, it’ll most likely get a low rating from me. Molly Holly comes out and beats down Trish before CHARLES ROBINSON, a man who is certainly scary, is able to send her to the back. Jazz comes out and Trish starts to get in her groove. Actually really good for a 5 minute womens match, I’m glad it was kept short and it was a good pace. **
*
CAL SCALE: 0.5
*
*Match # 4: Brock Lesnar vs Jeff Hardy*

Brock’s debut match, or at least his PPV debut match. I really hope this isn’t the squash it might be, also hope that Bork isn’t to green, but he seemed to get in the groove right away, considering he had a classic with taker only 5 months later. Anyway this starts out really slow but 6-8 minutes in IT PICKS UP, the fastest turn around in a match I’ve seen, it went from boring and slow to WOW within 60 seconds. This ends quickly but a damn good match and the beginning of BORK. *** 

*CAL SCALE: 2*

*Match # 5:Kurt Angle vs Edge*

Interesting match here, really fun spotfest-esque match. These two can work a good brawl and this was a really fun match. I had pretty high expectations going in this match and they certainly met it. I woudn’t call it MOTN so far as the opening match is still better IMO. Really solid match with a fun finisher. I also like how the you suck chants for Angle were in full swing here. *** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 4*

*Match # 6: RVD vs Eddie Gurrero(IC title match)
*
This should be awesome! These two are usually good in the ring together. Too bad this match was a little bit on the short side, but it was decent for the time it was given. It was at this time that WWF iNot as good as it could have been because it unfortunately felt like filler. ** ½

*CAL SCALE: 1*

*Match # 7: The Undertaker vs Stone cold*

I hate these two together, I don’t think I have legit enjoyed a single match they have had together, and yes I have seen SS 1998, boring. This pile of shit was no difference. I hate how I have at least one of these guys match in my top 10 matches of all time list but I swear they never seem to work together. They either do a terrible attempt of mat wrestling or a slow boring brawl. Flair is a referee here and how about we get a mania rematch while Austin fights Jericho or HHH while Hogan gets the fuck away? I’m pretty sure Vince just got the idea in his head of how awesome a Taker/Austin match could be so he kept trying it :lol. Absolutely terrible match, and the main event will probably still be worse. DUD

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 8: Billy and Chuck vs Al snow and Maven*

Wow, this is the exact definition of a filler match haha. I thought there was only the ME left in this and thank god we got this so the ME doesn’t have to be as damn long as it could be. Actually a decent match, nothing special but I’m glad it took up a good amount of time as all these guys can go in the ring. It was fine for 5-7 minute match. **

*CAL SCALE: 0.5*

*Match # 9: Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs HHH( undisputed title)*

Just letting you know, this most likely will be a DUD or NO from me, and I have never seen this match, I’m sure its absolutely fucking terrible though. Its not trips can carry hulk, because he cant. Its pathetic that all Jericho got tonight was a promo but fucking 50 year old Hogan gets a Main event spot he doesn’t deserve. JR says “Hogan is one of the best mat wrestlers ever”which cracks me up because he sucks Lol. Where’s the Rock? He needs to get his ass here too, ANYTHING BUT FUCKING HOGAN!! Honestly one of the worst matches I have ever seen in a main event spot, I compare it to Khali’s ME run 2007, but worse. Don’t watch this shit, it’ll make you VERY sad . NO

*CAL SCALE: -1*

*TOTAL CAL SCALE: 11.5*

Thoughts: Really good Undercard here, Tajiri/Kidman is a gem of a match that steals the show and is my MOTN at **** and through one PPV is my 2002 PPV MOTY, which isn’t saying much, but still a sick match. Lesnar/Hardy and Angle/Edge top out a fun undercard. But the double main event sucked hard. Which is a shame. 

*CURRENT PPV MOTY: Tajiri vs Billy Kidman( Backlash)*

*
CURRENT PPV RANKINGS

1: Backlash(11.5)*​


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I have yet to see the double main event for Backlash 02, but I'm not sure I want to based on everyone's reviews of those matches 

In the mood to watch some Christian currently. Watching his match against Del Rio from SummerSlam right now, and I'll check out his ECW matches with Swagger and Regal :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching Unforgiven 2002 now, doubt I'll get this up tonight but an interesting 8 man tag to open the show with Christian in it, may wanna check that out.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eight man tag from Unforgiven '02 is really strong. Such a blast.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

If only Regal could make a comeback as successful as Goldust.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I though I'd make a list of my top 5 best 3-way matches 

1- AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels vs Samoa Joe Unbreakable 2005...beautiful.
2- Chris Benoit vs Shawn Michaels vs Triple H WM 20
3- Vengeance 2002 Taker vs Angle vs Rock( This is my favorite Rock match of all times)
4- Christopher Daniels vs Daniel Bryan vs Low-Ki ROH debut show ( when I started watching Indy stuff back in 2008, I was blown away by this match, I loved all the participants, and IMO these 3 are in top 10 best wrestlers of the past 15 years , and maybe top 5 with Angle and Benoit)
5- Edge vs Triple H vs John Cena Backlash 2002 ... great stuff, underrated match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Feels like a solid time for me to demolish that awful Unbreakable three way again.

:troll


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Unbreakable manages to be more insane than John Doe from Se7en (not in a good way tho). That's not easy.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Man I;m only about an hour into Unforgiven and its already 4 AM. Dont know whether I should go to sleep yet....

Nah...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those classic moments when all three are laying in the ring visibly talking with each other, not sure of what spot to do next. The madness seen is almost too much to handle.

It's a total crapfest. So glad they got two more matches on PPV to make up for it. Now both of those are excellent, high energy matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, especially Turning Point 09 got things right for those three. Iirc Angle/Nigel from the same show is good too.

How long 'till the NXT with Ohno/Harper airs? :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It aired weeks ago. 8*D


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Feels like a solid time for me to demolish that awful Unbreakable three way again.
> 
> :troll


Did you watch that match while putting in your mind" I wana demolish this match" or just for the heck of enjoying it, anyone can be nit-picky about any match and find flaws.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> It aired weeks ago. 8*D


It did? *Fuck me.* How it was?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

exactly one hour into Unforgiven, will finish that shit tomorrow and then hopefully get another 2002 PPV done.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I saw what was going on and noticed it's garbage. First viewing when it originally happened it was all magical and whatnot. Those faded once I became wiser to the match upon the rewatches. It's very, very bad. Not being nit-picky when you hate everything seen, yo. Nor is it nit-picky once you hear an opinion that you disagree with. Gosh, I hate that. Excuses for why someone disagrees.

@ATF ~ short and sweet. Both lay into each other in about three minutes before Ohno gets the L. Some felt he looked poor against Harper considering how fast the match went, but I disagree. It was simply a short match & the guy on the main roster defeats the guy we haven't seen in months. Makes sense. Ohno is in MUCH better shape again from the aesthetics. I never cared, but it has shown he's working out.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Primer said:


> I saw what was going on and noticed it's garbage. First viewing when it originally happened it was all magical and whatnot. Those faded once I became wiser to the match upon the rewatches. It's *very, very bad*. Not being nit-picky when you hate everything seen, yo. Nor is it nit-picky once you hear an opinion that you disagree with. Gosh, I hate that. Excuses for why someone disagrees.



I have no problem with you saying the match is overrated, but in no way shape or form is it "a very, very bad" match like it's some 1* big slow man slug-fest.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You think that's worth a minirant, you *seriously* don't wanna go to YT comments now, HSPrimer. Because that's what they'll do all the time: disagree on different opinions. 8*D

Here's a recent one I put myself through:

Guy: "da rawk rulez and is the best in the world - eddie g. is not legend"
Me: "Yeah, because someone who's gassed after cutting a promo is the BITW. He kinda sucks."
Guy: "how dare you?! I hope the rawk kicks your ass!!!"

No, I'm not kidding.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, damn the Big Show for being great. All his fault.

Won't even touch the contradiction. That one is just for fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I guess the recent Show/Henry or Show/Sheamus, or pretty much all Show/Taker matches (sans SVS '08) were boring slugfests too.

It's what I've been saying: this thread, for _them_, is Bizarro World.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why do you think I post in the same two threads in the WWE section? But this is common knowledge. No point worth discussing. I had my fun already.

Do love all those Big Show matches listed. Not sure why the Casket match was such a flop. It just kind of happened and we'll forget about it just as quickly. Steel Cage covered its tracks. Wished that made Armageddon, but alas, a real good match all the same.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

^^ I was talking more about this











Sheamus has good chemistry with big men and Taker/Show are both good worker, I'd watch and enjoy their matches, but as sure as fuck not above Daniels/AJ/Joe


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Considering how stacked the roster was in 2002, it's quite surprising to see how bad some of those early 2002 PPVs are.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

You guys remember that one match when Big Show and Kane decided they felt like chain wrestling?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Why do you think I post in the same two threads in the WWE section? But this is common knowledge. No point worth discussing. I had my fun already.
> 
> Do love all those Big Show matches listed. Not sure why the Casket match was such a flop. It just kind of happened and we'll forget about it just as quickly. Steel Cage covered its tracks. Wished that made Armageddon, but alas, a real good match all the same.


Well, it was exactly what Show is stereotyped as: a _big slow_, boring slugfest. That's what it was. NM, CS and Cage were badass though. Especially CS - top 5 LMS match imo.

Just remembered about another really good Show match, vs Snitsky from UF '05.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> You guys remember that one match when Big Show and Kane decided they felt like chain wrestling?


Absolutely. :mark:

Big Show vs Great Khali is a good match & one I'll gladly take over the Unbreakable three way. 

Think the kid's head is gonna explode. Waits for another cuss riddled response.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Henry Casket is beyond underrated. It's just so much fun for a fucking Casket match. Then again, I am biased towards all of Mania 22.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Absolutely. :mark:
> 
> Big Show vs Great Khali is a good match & one I'll gladly take over the Unbreakable three way.
> 
> Think the kid's head is gonna explode. Waits for another cuss riddled response.


enjoy Khali vs Show, I'll make you pop corn ^^


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal was right. I really am a King here.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Currently watching Rey Mysterio: Life of a Masked Man and his 2/3 falls match against Juventud from ECW Extreme Bash 3/9/96 is probably the best Juventud match I've ever seen. *****1/4*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal also says RVD/Jeff Ladder is a DUD while Taker/Austin BL is a ****+ one


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's the latter which I'm in full shock of. The ladder match one - yeah, I can see some hating it. b/c it is real intentionally "spotty", if you will. But I have a lot of fun with it, personally.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have some issues with its spottiness, but I tend to forgive them because of the cirmcunstances (Post TLC Jeff + RVD + Ladders ) plus some mad spots along the way and I have fun.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/4 for the Shield/Bryan&Rhodes Dynasty from SD. That DB awesomeness in the end :mark:. Also, **3/4 for Punk/Big.E quite a good edition of SD


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fucking love this, just bloody chaos. Love the aftermath too lol. Plus J.R and Heyman on commentary


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Imo Rhodes Bros & Bryan/Shield II was, if at the same rating of ***1/4, a little better than the first one Raw. Though they're both rather not half as good as they can be.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I have some issues with its spottiness, but I tend to forgive them because of the cirmcunstances (Post TLC Jeff + RVD + Ladders ) plus some mad spots along the way and I have fun.


I think they make a general acceptable use of given that type of match. Who walks into a Rob Van Dam vs Jeff Hardy ladder match for the Hardcore championship expecting the most liberal use of logic - b/c they're nutty risk takers - or thought process which made say Jericho vs Benoit from the same year perfect? Not me. I got what I would have expected. Shame the finish is botched, but what can you do. Was in 1995 too. That's how it goes sometimes.

RVD's rolling thunder across the ring is still one of the more perfect spots I've seen. Couldn't have worked out any better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, the Rolling Thunder into a seated ladder from one turnbuckle to another was just poetry in motion. Second to the very 1st Van Terminator ever (c'mon, you can't tell me that wasn't minimally mindblowing) as my all-time favorite RVD spot.

Am I the only one in the world that just can't get too much into the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match? Don't get me wrong, it's virtually flawless, yes. They sold desperation and despair to a T, the logic was unbelievable, and I still cringe at the Suicide Dive chairshot spot. But, for some reason, I can't get much into it and in some points I get bored. I can't give it anymore than ****1/4, 1/2 at best, contrary to everybody's ****3/4 or ***** tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Van Terminator is always going to be an explosive stunt. No doubt.

I'm not with you on that opinion. Match is flawless for me at all points. Everything done in it is exactly what it needed to be.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I got exactly what I was expecting from RVD/Jeff ladder match. A bunch of sloppy, botchy, shitty spots combined to make a terrible match. The fuck else should I expect from those two? 

I'm in the mood for some more ECW 09 today. Gonna work my way through to Breaking Point so I can see Regal/Christian :mark:. Don't actually remember that match in particular. My mind always goes to the November match when I think of Regal/Christian (oh god I can't wait to watch that one again too :mark.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least you put over their fabulous match from Invasion. All is right there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their Invasion match is pretty :mark:.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Van Daminator'ed Hardy INTO the gap on the stage. Match is so awesome. :mark:


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

Goldust's role in the WWF/E after Pillman died was odd. Basically it was exactly like Charlie Haas in 2008 where he was impersonating wrestlers. Although some of the impersionations are hilarious. Watching the 1/26/98 RAW episode and he comes out as HHH (even has a big nose :lmao).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Oh yeah, the Rolling Thunder into a seated ladder from one turnbuckle to another was just poetry in motion. Second to the very 1st Van Terminator ever (c'mon, you can't tell me that wasn't minimally mindblowing) as my all-time favorite RVD spot.
> 
> Am I the only one in the world that just can't get too much into the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match? Don't get me wrong, it's virtually flawless, yes. They sold desperation and despair to a T, the logic was unbelievable, and I still cringe at the Suicide Dive chairshot spot. But, for some reason, I can't get much into it and in some points I get bored. I can't give it anymore than ****1/4, 1/2 at best, contrary to everybody's ****3/4 or ***** tbh.


Last watch i had it at ****3/4, IMO its still the best ladder match, its near (if not) perfect.

Think ill watch it again later now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goldust Vs Sheamus - No Countout & No DQ Match - ECW 01/09/2009

:mark:

Great, great TV feud between these two and I'm fairly certain this is gonna be their last match (in the 09 series at least, I *think* I saw a Raw match from 2010 when I looked up their matches to see if I'd missed any). After their last match ended with a countout due to them trying to kill each other on the outside, they've decided to go No countout and No DQ for this final match!

"YUR NUFFIN, FELLA, YOU HEAR ME? NUFFIN!"

Goldust has control early on until Sheamus sends him back first into the ring post and Goldie takes an incredible bump off it :mark:. Sheamus looks vicious as fuck, and Goldust is screaming in pain :mark:. Oh god, hurry up and return Sheamus! I want Sheamus Vs Goldust in 2013 or early 2014 at the very least!!!

Love how Sheamus shows that all their previous matches HAVE taught him something, as he is able to block the sliding uppercut from Goldust. :mark: Sheamus is still killing it with submissions.

There is one point when Sheamus has that... hold on Goldust where his knee is in his back and he's pulling back his arms... and GOLDUST IS ON HIS STOMACH. My god it looks brutal lol. Sheamus is really going to town on Goldie's back after the ring post shot :mark:.

VINTAGE~! Goldust with those huge LARIATOOOOOOOS from his Natural days when he would do his best to emulate Barry Windham. They work great as comebacks too because launching yourself with your arm out aimed at you're opponents neck isn't gonna come across as retarded when your back hurts .

Revenge spot as Goldust sends Sheamus back first into the ring post! He's building momentum now and looks to finish the Irishman... but Sheamus is still too strong and his back has only suffered that one blow! Brogue Kick! Irish Curse (which does have the name now)! Sheamus gets the win!

This is really fucking good. I like how they didn't bring weapons into the match just because it was No DQ. They brawl on the outside, and Sheamus is extra brutal because there is no DQ, but that's as far as they go. Just makes Sheamus look better as it shows he doesn't need a weapon to fuck you up. Not sure which I like more, this or their Superstars match. Either way both are fucking good.

Rating: ***1/2

Sheamus & Shelton Benjamin Vs Golust & Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 08/09/2009

:mark: more Sheamus on Goldust action :mark:.

Yoshi and Shelton have been feuding too but I didn't give a shit about watching their matches lol. Shelton is a guy I can only watch when he's against someone I really like. GOLDUST.

Goldust and Shelton start things off with Shelton looking like a noob until he manages to tag in Sheamus. Find it odd that Goldust would tag out quickly while Sheamus is the match... but it does result in Yoshi throwing some KICKS at the Irishman :mark:.

Yoshi ends up getting worked over for a tiny bit, and they do a nice hot tag tease even though this match doesn't have much time to really build heat or anything. Goldust does get the "hot" tag fairly quickly though, and it results in some more Sheamus Vs Goldust for about a minute... until Sheamus decks Goldust in the face with a kick and Shelton tags himself in and gets the win. Sheamus ain't pleased with that and decks his own partner!!!

Fun match even if it doesn't get much time. Shelton and Sheamus brawling afterwards was cool. Wouldn't mind a singles match with them next week . Hope they get one!

Rating: **

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Vladimir Kovlov & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 08/09/2009

:mark: Breaking Point is the next show after this. REGAL VS CHRISTIAN :mark:. Until then, gotta watch a tag with 2 guys I don't like, one guy who has shown he can be good here and there, and fucking CHRISTIAN. Christian alone should make this worth it . 

Kozlov runs over Christian likes he's fucking NOTHING, and the look on Christian's face is awesome. He realises he can't go head to head with the guy so he uses his speed to avoid killer shots and is able to quickly throw some shots of his own in. Tag to Big Zeke... and Christian says "fuck it" and lets Dreamer at him :lmao. Then when Dreamer has things in hand, the champ tags in again! Crossbody! Zeke catches Christian! Dreamer joins in with a Crossbody too! Poor Zeke is crushed under Christian and HE'S FAT Tommy Dreamer!

Someone shoot Matt Striker. I swear he's come up with about 15 separate names for Zeke, Kozlov and their team in general so far. AND THEY ALL SUCK.

Dreamer and Christian hold their own for a short time, using speed and VETERAN INSTINCTS~! to avoid the sheer power of their opponents, but it isn't long before Dreamer gets caught and BAM. He goes down and the heels have this in hand.

Hot tag to Christian, who comes in like a house on fire... but he can't knock down Kozlov! Clothesline after Clothesline after Clothesline don't do it! It takes TWO missile dropkicks to take him down... but even then he gets right back up an headbutts Christian down and tags in Zeke who continues the power game!

Regal on the outside looking smug as fuck is :mark:.

BACK WORK TO CHRISTIAN BY BIG ZEKE :mark:. Shades of their future RR match!

Great little spot where Christian tries to leap over Kozlov to tag in Dreamer, but he gets caught. Kozlov turns around so he's facing Dreamer, then just fucking LOBS Christian over his head with a fall away slam!

Hot tag to Dreamer, and instead of trying to clothesline Zeke down like Christian tried with Kozlov earlier to no avail... Dreamer does the only thing guaranteed to take down any powerhouse... Crossbody! Ain't nobody catching that fatty!!! 

Splash off the ropes from Dreamer! Damn, he really IS using his weight to his advantage! Close call there but Kozlov breaks it up. Christian takes care of Kozlov on the outside, while Zeke slams Dreamer down with his finishing Spinebuster type move and this is DONE.

:mark: this was GREAT. I mean... I was expecting the match to go down like this; Christian and Dreamer avoiding the power of their opponents and taking advantage of their experience before the power takes over. Hot tag, finishing stretch, match ends. And that is what we got... but fuck I never expected it to be THIS good. This is... this is kinda glorious. Gonna upload it. YeahMoops, watch it and see if you like it more than the 2010 tag I uploaded for ya. I have a strange feeling you might like this more. I know it isn't a 2010 match but fuck it. Watch it. Everyone else too.

Rating: ****


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Watched the Batista doc last night, it still rules the earth but I'm still baffled as to how they didn't talk about the Vengeance 2005 cell match on a single DVD yet. Excellent, excellent documentary and quite honestly one of the most underrated features that I'd put over the Edge, Rock, Orton, & a whole bunch of other documentaries, certainly one of the more emotional features out there.

About to head to the matches now; some of these look downright terrible but it has matches Vs HHH & THE UNDERTAKER.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Breaking Point is a very, very good PPV. DX/Legacy is the most fun thing in the world, Christian/Regal rules and Orton/Cena is a MOTYC for 09 (which is quite the feat). And the rest of the undercard is very fun too. If only Punk/Taker didn't suck balls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Upload it asap b/c my copy of it has poor audio.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Christian pack is now up in XWT, here's the match-list:



Spoiler: MATCH LIST



1. Acolytes vs Radicalz vs Dudley Boyz vs X-Factor vs Hardy Boyz vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit vs Edge & Christian - Tag Team Turmoil No. 1 Contender's Match - Judgment Day 2001.avi 

2. Randy Orton vs Christian - No Holds Barred - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2011.avi 

3. The Hardyz vs Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian - TLC Tag Team - Tag Team Championship - WrestleMania 16.avi 

4. Chris Jericho vs Christian - Ladder Match - Intercontinental Championship - Unforgiven 2004.avi 

5. Christian Cage vs Monty Brown - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Destination X 2006.avi 

6. Team Cage(Christian Cage, AJ Styles, Tomko, Abyss, Scott Steiner) vs Team Angle(Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Rhino, Sting, Jeff Jarrett) - Lethal Lockdown - Lockdown 2007.avi 

7. Team Tomko (Tomko, AJ Styles, Team 3D & James Storm) vs Team Cage (Christian Cage, Matt Morgan, Kevin Nash, Rhino & Sting) - Lethal Lockdown - Lockdown 2008.avi 

8. John Cena vs Chris Jericho vs Christian - WWE Championship - Vengeance 2005.avi 

9. Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - Ladder Match - World Heavyweight Championship - Extreme Rules 2011.avi 

10. Chris Jericho vs Christian - WrestleMania XX.avi 

11. Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust vs Dudley Boyz vs William Regal & Lance Storm - Fatal Four Way Tag Team Elimination Match - World Tag Team Championship - Armageddon 2002.avi 

12. Edge and Christian vs The Dudley Boyz vs The Hardy Boyz (WrestleMania X-Seven 2001 Tables, Ladders, and Chairs match, WWF Tag Team Championship).avi 

13. Christian Cage vs Kurt Angle vs AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Chris Harris - King Of The Mountain - Vacant TNA World Heavyweight Championship - Slammiversary V.avi 

14. Christian Cage vs Jeff Jarrett - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Against All Odds 2006.avi 

15. Edge vs Christian - Ladder Match - Intercontinental Championship - No Mercy 2001.avi 

16. Randy Orton vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Over The Limit 2011.avi 

17. Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - Against All Odds 2008.avi 

18. Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - TNA World Heavyweight Championship - Final Resolution 2008.avi 

19. Samoa Joe vs Christian Cage - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Destination X 2007.avi 

20. Sting & Christian Cage vs Jeff Jarrett & Monty Brown - Final Resolution 2006.avi 

21. Randy Orton vs Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - Money in the Bank 2011.avi 

22. Kurt Angle vs Christian Cage - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Against All Odds 2007.avi 

23. Christian Cage vs Abyss - Steel Cage - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Lockdown 2006.avi 

24. 2002.10.07 - Kane vs. Chris Jericho & Christian vs. Jeff Hardy & Rob Van Dam vs. Bubba Ray Dudley & Spike Dudley (RAW, TLC, World Tag Team Championship).avi 

25. Randy Orton vs Christian - Steel Cage - World Heavyweight Championship - SmackDown 30.8.11.avi 

26. WWE Smackdown 2013-08-09 - Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian.avi 

27. Chris Jericho, Edge, Shelton Benjamin, Chris Benoit, Christian (with Tyson Tomko) and Kane (WrestleMania 21 2005 Money in the Bank ladder match).avi 

28. Rey Mysterio & Billy Kidman vs Christian & Lance Storm - Tag Team Championship - Global Warning 2002.avi 

29. Edge & Christian vs Hardy Boyz vs Too Cool - Elimination Match - Tag Team Championship - King of the Ring 2000.avi 

30. The Hardy Boyz vs Edge & Christian - Tag Team No. 1 Contender Match - No Way Out 2000.avi 

31. Sting vs Samoa Joe vs Christian Cage vs Scott Steiner - No .1 Contender Match For A World Title Shot - Victory Road 2006.avi 

32. Christian vs Edge - WWF Intercontinental Championship - Unforgiven 2001.avi 

33. Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - World Heavyweight Championship - Summerslam 2013.avi 

34. Christian vs Rob Van Dam vs Randy Orton - No. 1 Contender Match For The World Heavyweight Championship At Summerslam - SmackDown 2.8.13.avi 

35. AJ Styles vs Christian Cage - Gensis 2006.avi 

36. Edge and Christian vs The Dudley Boyz vs The Hardy Boyz (WrestleMania 2000 Triangle ladder match, WWF Tag Team Championship).avi 

37. Christian vs Booker T vs Lance Storm vs Val Venis vs Chris Jericho vs Test vs Rob Van Dam vs Kane vs Goldust - Battle Royal For The Vacant Intercontinental Championship - Judgment Day 2003.avi 

38. Edge & Christian vs Hardy Boyz vs Mideon & Viscera vs Droz & Albert vs Acolytes vs Bob & Crash Holly - Tag Team Turmoil For The No. 1 Contendership - Summerslam 1999.avi 

39. Chris Benoit vs Booker T vs Christian vs Orlando Jordan - United States Championship - No Mercy 2005.avi 

40. Hollywood Hulk Hogan & Edge vs Lance Storm & Christian - WWE Tag Team Championship - Vengeance 2002.avi 

41. Christian vs Rob Van Dam vs Chris Jericho - Intercontinental Championship - Unforgiven 2003.avi 

42. Kaz vs Christian Cage - No. 1 Contender Match For A World Title Shot - Ladder Match - Genesis 2007.avi 

43. The Hardyz vs Edge & Christian - Steel Cage - Tag Team Championship - Unforgiven 2000.avi 

44. New Age Outlaws vs Edge & Christian - Tag Team Championship - Unforgiven 1999.avi 

45. Abyss vs Christian Cage - Full Metal Mayhem - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Sacrifice 2006.avi 

46. Christian Cage vs Rhino - No Surrender 2006.avi 

47. WWE Smackdown 2013-08-24 - Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian.avi 

48. Sting vs Christian Cage vs Abyss - Three Way Elimination Match - NWA World Heavyweight Championship - Final Resolution 2007.avi 

49. Shelton Benjamin vs Christian - Intercontinental Championship - Survivor Series 2004.avi 

50. Too Cool & Rikishi vs Kurt Angle, Edge & Christian - Judgement Day 2000.avi 

51. 2001.05.24 - Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho vs. The Hardy Boyz vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge and Christian (SmackDown! 24.05.01,TLC, WWF Tag Team Championship).avi 

52. Kurt Angle & Team 3D vs AJ Styles & Christian Cage And Rhino - Full Metal Mayhem - Victory Road 2008.avi 

53. Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian vs Kane & Undertaker - Tables Match - Tag Team Championship - No Way Out 2001.avi 

54. Edge vs Christian - Steel Cage - Intercontinental Championship - Rebellion 2001.avi 

55. 2005.06.27 - Shawn Michaels & Hulk Hogan & John Cena vs. Chris Jericho & Christian & Tyson Tomko.avi 

56. WWE Smackdown 2011-03-18 - Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio (Steel Cage Match).avi 

57. WWE Raw 2013-07-29 - Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian.avi 

58. Christian vs Shelton Benjamin - Ladder Match - ECW Championship - TLC 2009.avi 

59. Kane, Goldust, Booker T, Bubba Ray Dudley vs Lance Storm, Christian, William Regal ,Test - Unforgiven 2002.avi 

60. Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, D-Von Dudley, & Bubba Ray Dudley vs Edge, Christian, The Goodfather & Bull Buchanan - Classic 8 Man Tag Elimination Survivor Series Match - Survivor Series 2000.avi 

61. Randy Orton vs Christian - Raw 26.8.13.avi 

62. Trish Stratus & Lita vs Chris Jericho & Christian - The Battle Of The Sexes - Armageddon 2003.avi 

63. Christian Cage vs Samoa Joe - Bound For Glory 2007.avi 

64. ''The Ministry of Darkness'' (Faarooq, Bradshaw & Mideon) vs ''The Brood'' (Gangrel, Edge & Christian) - Six-Man Tag Team - Backlash 1999.avi 

65. Booker T vs Christian Cage vs AJ Styles - Bound For Glory IV.avi 

66. Tommy Dreamer vs Christian vs Jack Swagger vs Finlay vs Mark Henry - ECW Championship Scramble Match - ECW Championship - The Bash 2009.avi 

67. Chris Jericho & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust - World Tag Team Championship - No Mercy 2002.avi 

68. Chris Harris vs Christian Cage - Victory Road 2007.avi 

69. Christian Cage vs Rhino - Barbed Wire Six Side Of Steel - Impact 16.11.06.avi 

70. WWE Smackdown 2011-04-29 - Christian & Randy Orton vs. Alberto Del Rio & Brodus Clay.avi 

71. Lance Storm & Christian vs Booker T & Goldust - WWE Tag Team Championship - Summerslam 2002.avi 

72. Randy Orton vs Christian - Raw 14.2.05.avi 

73. Christian vs Drew Mcintyre - Superstars 31.5.12.avi 

74. Rhino vs Christian Cage - 8 Mile Street Fight - Bound For Glory 2006.avi 

75. Edge & Christian vs Mike Awesome & Lance Storm - Invasion 2001.avi 

76. WWE Raw 2011-03-28 - Edge & Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio & Brodus Clay.avi 

77. Christian vs Jack Swagger vs Tommy Dreamer - Hardcore Match - ECW Championship - Extreme Rules 2009.avi 

78. Edge & Christian vs Road Dogg & X-Pac - WWF Tag Team Championship - Backlash 2000.avi 

79. Christian vs Cody Rhodes - Intercontinental Championship - No Way Out 2012.avi 

80. Christian vs. Booker T - Intercontinental Championship - Insurrextion 2003.avi 

81. Right To Censor vs. Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. Road Dogg & K-Kwik - WWF Tag Team Championship - Armageddon 2000.avi 

82. Christian Cage vs Monty Brown - Turning Point 2005.avi 

83. Sheamus vs Christian - Hell In A Cell 2011.avi 

84. Sheamus vs Christian - Vengeance 2011.avi 

85. Christian vs Jack Swagger - ECW Championship - Backlash 2009.avi 

86. Booker T vs Christian - The Great American Bash 2005.avi 

87. Christian vs Taka Michinoku - Light Heavyweight Championship - Judgment Day 1998.avi 

88. Christian vs Kurt Angle - King of the Ring Semi-Final Match - King Of The Ring 2001.avi 

89. Christian vs Ezekiel Jackson - ECW Championship - Royal Rumble 2010.avi 

90. Christian vs William Regal - ECW Championship - Breaking Point 2009.avi 

91. Christian vs Jack Swagger - ECW Championship - Judgment Day 2009.avi 

92. Cody Rhodes vs Christian - Intercontinental Championship - Over The Limit 2012.avi 

93. 2003.09.29 - Christian vs. Rob Van Dam (WWE Raw, Intercontinental Championship, Ladder match).avi 

94. Tommy Dreamer vs Christian - ECW Championship - Night Of Champions 2009.avi 

95. Scotty 2 Hotty & Albert vs Test & Christian - Vengeance 2001.avi 

96. Dudley Boyz vs Edge & Christian - WWF Tag Team Championship - Royal Rumble 2001.avi 

97. Christian vs Al Snow - European Championship - Survivor Series 2001.avi 

98. King Of The Ring 1999 - Hardy Boyz vs. Edge & Christian.avi 

99. WWE Raw 2005-05-02 - Christian vs. Kane (Gold Rush Tournament Match 1).avi 

100. Christian vs DDP - Europeon Championship - WrestleMania X-8.avi



Just watched Big Zeke vs Christian and the ECW scramble from Bash 2008. Good stuff. Now I'm going to watch for the very first time Swagger/Christian BL 2009 :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Got Regal/Christian BP match from that pack yesterday lol. Now I'm watching it :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just got in a hour ago from after the walk of shame  How was Carrie Cody ? 

The main event of sd was fun last these guys have incredible chemistry already and are all great workers


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why is there no record of Christian/Dreamer vs. Kozlov/Jackson ever happening? That's the one episode that the WWE skipped in its uploaded videos of ECW episodes.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW Title Match - Breaking Point 13/09/2009

Kozlov and Zeke are BANNED from ringside and must leave or else Regal forfeits!

Another callback to SS here with Christian going for a Killswitch straight away, but like their last match from ECW Regal is able to counter because he was kinda expecting it following SS.

Some fun back and forth stuff between the two early on, until Regal shoves Christian off the ropes and Christian takes a god like bump on the apron and then the floor, and Regal is in control :mark:.

Christian gets some hope spots in, as you would expect, but Regal cuts him off beautifully. HALF NELSON SUPLEX :mark:. I can fap to that.

:mark: love the spot where Christian goes the springboard sunset flip, but Regal counters out of it and just runs his fucking knee right into Christian's face :mark:.

Regal needs to come back and just elbow the shit out of everyone. Team him with Bryan against THE SHIELD and I can die happy. Rollins bumping from the KNEE TREMBLER? Regal taking a SPEAR? :mark:

REGAL-PLEX~! :mark: Awesome way to counter the Killswitch! Absolutely MURDERS Christian. But Regal takes time to go after him again, instead taunts the crowd, allowing Christian to recover and make a full blown comeback .

Oh shit, RUNNING ELBOW TO THE FACE BY CHRISTIAN!!! Taking a page out of Regal's book there, showing that he needs to do EVERYTHING in his power to take down Regal!

ROLLING SENTON~! Crazy to see Regal busting out a move like that lol, but like Christian, he also knows it's gonna take EVERYTHING to win this match!

Killswitch countered for a THIRD time in the match, and Regal follows up with a KNEE TREMBLER~! but Christian counters that into a Killswitch finally! 1...2...3 and this is over! Incredible contest! The PPV match we SHOULD have had a month ago at SS. Better than their TV match from the night after SS too, and that was great too!

Rating: ****1/4

Also:

Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Vladimir Kovlov & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 08.09.2009

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k25bMA4KDK3bQN4N9ee (Private)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Done watching Christian & Dreamer/Kozlov & Zeke, and imo it's ***1/4-1/2 worthy. Cal kinda overrated it. **** is kinda too much if you ask me. Christian was a pure God here, he (and Zeke who was pretty good too) bumped up dem stars badly. Kozlov and Dreamer were ok in their roles too but not much, especially Dreamer who did look very sloppy at some moments.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Sting vs a drugged Jeff Hardy is the GOAT TNA match. But that's probably where the TNA talk should end in here.


What a TNA? :argh:



xdoomsayerx said:


> I may overrated hbk/Cena but I don't care, I recently rewatched this and its FUCKING AWESOME. I've also seen a pot of people drop their rating for his match with angle, i'll have to rewatch it soon. It held up for me last time though.


I like their Raw match in London better but the WM23 match was very good. 



smitty915 said:


> * for HBK/angle? Is that normal guys?


I loved it. Lots of people shit on it. It's the cool thing to do in the IWC I guess. I thought it should have ended with the Angle slam off the top instead of HBK taping out but I thought it was really fun. As was their Vengeance match and Iron Man match on Raw. 



The Cynical Miracle said:


> Fuck man. This Jake the Snake doc is the most tragic shit ever.


Indeed. Hard to watch. Kinda breaks your heart. 



xdoomsayerx said:


> Don't forget Eddie/ Angle. Very disappointing match for me.
> 
> ***1/4


I'd go a little higher with that one. I enjoyed it. Lots of people hate on WM20 but I think it's fun. Fuck me right? 



zep81 said:


> Fucking love this, just bloody chaos. Love the aftermath too lol. Plus J.R and Heyman on commentary


Hell yes. Great match. Fucking loved Scotty back then! 



ATF said:


> Breaking Point is a very, very good PPV. DX/Legacy is the most fun thing in the world, Christian/Regal rules and Orton/Cena is a MOTYC for 09 (which is quite the feat). And the rest of the undercard is very fun too. If only Punk/Taker didn't suck balls.


Agreed. Solid PPV until the main event. It was like WHAT? 



redskins25 said:


> Just got in a hour ago from after the walk of shame


As in you got some ass? Atta kid!! Thats my dog!! :smokey :deebo :bigworm


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

No Mercy 2003 wasn't that bad. The Vince/Steph match _really_ surprised me on how well it was executed. Probably a 7/10


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha idk bud, I woke up on the girls floor , a man can hope can he ?

Watching christian/regal bp 09


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Marv95 said:


> No Mercy 2003 wasn't that bad. The Vince/Steph match _really_ surprised me on how well it was executed. Probably a 7/10


Yeah, it was a pretty good PPV. I've read many of reviews on this PPV and it gets shitted on for the most part except for the Angle/Cena match of course. Never understood the hate this PPV gets. My only complaints were the Brock/Taker Biker Chain match being dull and Matt Hardy being wasted in a match with Zach Gowen. Matt did get something good out of Gowen so that was a plus I guess.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Just got in a hour ago from after the walk of shame  How was Carrie Cody ?
> 
> The main event of sd was fun last these guys have incredible chemistry already and are all great workers


I plan to have an answer to that question SOON. :cgm

Now for more related topics: Vince vs Steph is really, really great. It's drama like that where WWE wishes all their angles connect with the crowd. For that night & Vince's godly satan work in 2003 - I love that oxymoron btw - those fans bought it all.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> haha idk bud, I woke up on the girls floor , a man can hope can he ?
> 
> Watching christian/regal bp 09


YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BOY. To celebrate, I'm going to pimp a Michaels match .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Marv95 said:


> No Mercy 2003 wasn't that bad. The Vince/Steph match _really_ surprised me on how well it was executed. Probably a 7/10


*They also have a quality Tajiri-Rey match and a good Cena-Angle match...although I'm not a fan of that Biker Chain match. 

The storytelling of the Steph-Vince match is quality, and no one was expecting it to be a 5-star match with loads of athleticism, so it did its job. Just goes to prove that you don't need springboard reverse corkscrew Asai Tornado DDT to make a match good. *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Regal Vs The Hurricane - ECW 15/09/2009

While still in a suit trying to sweet talk TIFFANY (FAP FAP FAP BTW) into another ECW title match, he is informed has to wrestle Hurrican NOW.

Regal is taken by surprise with all of this, plus he's not in his gear, so it allows Hurricane to have an early advantage! In fact, it allows Hurricane to control THE ENTIRE match, until Regal sees an opportunity to nail The Hurricane with a KNEE TREMBLER~! and get the win just like that!

Short match, with nothing much to it really. Low rating yes, but it's not BAD, it's just a victim of circumstances.

Rating: 1/2*

Shelton Benjamin Vs Vladimir Kozlov Vs Ezekiel Jackson Vs Yoshi Tatsu Vs Paul Burchill Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Goldust Vs Tyler Reks Vs Sheamus Vs Zack Ryder - #1 Contenders Battle Royal Match - ECW 15/09/2009

Damn, Burchill (aka FAT DREW MAC) takes a nasty bump from a T-Bone suplex over the ropes by Shelton. His back SMACKS the apron before he is eliminated.

:lmao at Big Zeke not being able to budge Dreamer. HE'S TOO FAT TO LIFT OVER THE ROPES~!

:lmao Burchill must have had some heat or something backstage because he's eliminated first, early, and is the ONLY elimination for a good 5 minutes. It's like they get rid of him and THEN decide to have the match .

:lmao at Tatsu screaming Japanese while trying desperately to throw Sheamus out.

Tyler is next to go... during the break. They tease Vlad and Zeke going at it. Then go to break so we never know what happens!

Tatsu FLIES over the ropes thanks to BIG ZEKE.

I have absolutely NO IDEA who wins this match btw. There is no ECW title match on PPV until DECEMBER now, and no ECW matches in general aside from ECW guys being on SVS teams. So Breaking Point between Regal and Christian was the LAST ECW PPV match I'll be watching for 2009!  Anyway, my point is that with no ECW title match on PPV any time soon, the winner of this is getting a title match on TV... and I don't remember 99% of the matches that happened on TV lol. Makes it all the more unpredictable for me :mark:.

Shelton eliminating Sheamus reminds me that nothing came from them brawling after their match a couple of weeks ago. Maybe is happened on Superstars? Or maybe it hasn't happened yet because Sheamus eliminates Shelton and they go at it again! And I just realised there hasn't been an ECW show since their last match anyway so this is the first time they could have had a match together anywhere other than Superstars .

The ring starts to empty now and we are left with Goldust, Vlad, Dreamer and Ryder. Oh god I know Ryder and Christian have a couple of matches in 09... please don't tell me he wins . Dammit he eliminated Goldust. He's winning, isn't he? They had a good match last time though so maybe they can repeat that success.

They gonna have to because Ryder just won. Bah. DON'T LET ME DOWN, CHRISTIAN!

Fun battle royal. Some cool action, nice build for Sheamus/Shelton, and I guess it's cool a young guy wins and gets a title match and a chance to make it and shit.

Rating: **1/2

Christian Vs Zack Ryder - ECW Title Match - 22/09/2009

Christian just LOVES to bitch slap peeps, don't he? 

Ryder starts to get a little rough here, using some headbutts, knees and elbow strikes to take the fight to the ECW champ! But Christian has just come out of a couple of WARS with Regal so that kind of offence from some noob like Ryder ain't gonna phase him for long! Bunch of typical, but awesome, Christian spots before Ryder sees a small opening and takes it!

:mark: sweet spot with Ryder shoving Christian off the apron stomach first into the steel steps. Now Ryder can work over the mid-section. You know, if Ryder dropped the gay gimmick (he IS portraying a ****, right?  ) and started wrestling like THIS on a consistent basis I could become a fan. But instead he's stuck with the lame **** gimmick and his matches are usually turd. Then again I don't recall him doing anything worth seeing outside of these Christian matches (which I never enjoyed that much until these recent watches). Maybe he only wrestles good against Christian? Or maybe it's just Christian being totally awesome and making anyone look good. More inclined to believe that last statement lol .

:mark: Christian brings back the running elbow to the face. Striker calls it the FLASH POINT so I have no idea if it ever officially got named or not lol. Either way I love it and he needs to bring it back. As soon as WWE brings him back.

Oh man, Christian got one hell of a red mark on his chest just below one of his boobs. Must have been from the steel steps bump earlier!

Good finishing stretch to this one with plenty of near and believable falls, Ryder doing anything he can to win including trying to use the ropes, but in the end the KILLSWITCH gets the better of him.

Good match, on par with their previous contest. Christian once again proving he's one of the best in the world at this point in time.

Regal comes out afterwards and says that now this farce of an ECW title match is done, it won't be long until HE is the #1 contender again. Christian decks him. One more month until their epic match in November :mark:.

Rating: **3/4

Christian, Yoshi Tatsu, Tommy Dreamer & Goldust Vs Zack Ryder, William Regal, Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 29/09/2009

Regal is GM for the night and originally made a 4 on 1 handicap match, until apparently the board of directors called him and changed it because they didn't like it. LOL.

Potential to be oodles of fun here. Lots of TALENT involved. And Dreamer and Ryder 8*D.

Goldust gets a tag in and is OVER LIKE FUCK which pleases me greatly. Shame he didn't stay in the match for too long, but this was early on while they were still doing the "get every babyface into the match to show off their stuff" part lol.

Ryder shows his TOUGHNESS by surviving a powerslam from Dreamer. ALL THE WEIGHT OF DREAMER TO THE MIDSECTION~!

Break, and we come back to Dreamer taking a beating from BIG ZEKE. Bah, they picked the worst guy on the babyface team to be FIP lol. Not to say Dreamer does terrible, but you have GOLDUST AND CHRISTIAN for fecks sake. Even Yoshi would have been better, getting in some cool kicks as hope spots and shit.

But yeah, Dreamer ain't BAD or anything as the FIP. In fact he's been surprising me a lot recently. He's been involved in a lot of good matches, true with better opponents/team mates, but he's not sucked or come close to sucking in any of them.

HOT TAG TO CHRISTIAN... who ends up taking a bump over the ropes thanks to Vlad pulling them down straight away! Christian FIP time? :mark:

Oh man, Regal dragging Christian away from the babyface corner BY HIS HEAD is just pure :mark:.

:mark: Vlad doing the fall away slam spot from the other awesome tag match.

Christian takes a great beating from EVERYONE who focus on his mid-section. First half of the year was concentrated on Christian's arm, the second half seems to be his mid-section lol. And it's all fucking GREAT :mark:.

YOSHI gets the hot tag and comes in like a fucking madman, going all JAPANESE on Ryder. Kicks, rolling elbows, knees to the face :mark:. Oh shit then a brawl erupts, Christian takes everyone out with a crossbody to the floor, and Yoshi decks Regal with a kick to their head and like their singles match a while back, he gets the 3!!!

:mark: FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN FUN tag match! ECW is really throwing out the goods with these tags!!!

Rating: ***1/2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BOY. To celebrate, I'm going to pimp a Michaels match .


:hbk1 :cheer good match iirc

Because I'm a nice guy, I will watch a HHH 03 match to see if your theory is accurate


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Regal working in his posh suit. Remember being so frustrated once I got that dream match only for it to be over in about two minutes. Damn you, ECW! Gives me goodies all year long in 2009, but they just couldn't give me that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> haha idk bud, I woke up on the girls floor , a man can hope can he ?
> 
> Watching christian/regal bp 09



That's better than me bub, I woke up spooning a bottle of Jack Daniels on the couch downstairs. I'm never drinking again. Like ever.

Smitty- am I still drunk, or did you just rate Eddie/RVD from Backlash **? The fuck? That's a classic man, prolly gets close to **** from me.


Fuck that Unbreakable match, I just watched it for the first time yesterday because me buddy swore it was the greatest thing since disposable rubbers. Made absolutely zero sense, no story, no selling. It was the definition of a fuck fest. Highly entertaining fuck fest, but a fuck fest all the same. That was the second TNA match I'd ever seen, only other was Foley/Flair LMS. Don't think I'll be going for another if that's how they work over there. Kurt Angle must feel right at home.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You have to watch so much Kurt Angle from TNA. You'll die from laughter. Or from being poisoned by shittiness. Who cares though, Angle sucks.

It's totally funny. Not fair that I'm only going after the crap matches, but it's easier that way. _*cough Triple X vs AMW six sides of steel should be watched b/c it's legit amazing cough*_


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I rated it 2 1/2 cactus, It honestly did nothing for me


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Eddie/RVD BL is tremendous. Mostly thanks to Eddie of course. Probably RVD's GOAT match. Followed by their ladder match. Followed by the Benoit SS 02 match. LOL. Top 3 RVD career matches all took place in 02 and with Benoit and Eddie .

Only 13 more ECW 09 shows to go! 5 more and then I get to the :mark: Nov 11th show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> You have to watch so much Kurt Angle from TNA. You'll die from laughter. Or from being poisoned by shittiness. Who cares though, Angle sucks.
> 
> It's totally funny. Not fair that I'm only going after the crap matches, but it's easier that way. _*cough Triple X vs AMW six sides of steel should be watched b/c it's legit amazing cough*_







Yes Cactus, watch this one


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

could Cody, Zep or any other wcw aficionado tell me the best arn/flair match ? Its fall brawl 95 right ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are we all at least in agreement that Angle/Jarrett ruled?

Thanks KillaCal for uploading that tag match. Loads of fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best match in TNA history right there.



Callamus said:


> Eddie/RVD BL is tremendous. Mostly thanks to Eddie of course. Probably RVD's GOAT match. Followed by their ladder match. Followed by the Benoit SS 02 match. LOL. Top 3 RVD career matches all took place in 02 and with Benoit and Eddie .


RVD's ladder match vs Christian >>> vs Eddie. It's good, but much like the No DQ with Edge the same year - it gets overrated. No DQ match is better than it too, for random info. Why did I trail off onto Eddie when RVD is the topic here?

Match vs Undertaker would have to probably be a top RVD match for me too. Watched it so many times. Blanking on anything else, so I'm almost certain the classic vs Benoit from SummerSlam was his best match in WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Eddie/RVD BL is tremendous. Mostly thanks to Eddie of course. Probably RVD's GOAT match. Followed by their ladder match. Followed by the Benoit SS 02 match. LOL. Top 3 RVD career matches all took place in 02 and with Benoit and Eddie .
> 
> Only 13 more ECW 09 shows to go! 5 more and then I get to the :mark: Nov 11th show.


Big Cal, have you not seen the tremendous match RVD had with Jerry Lynn back in ECW at Hardcore Heaven? That match is absolutely fantastic, JL gets legit knocked out but RVD still carries him to an amazing match. The finish gets botched a bit, but otherwise absolutely terrific stuff, I reccomend it.

Personally, I think the Ladder match on Raw vs Eddie is RVD's best, followed by Backlash, then probably Hardcore Heaven. Ladder gets ****1/2, the other two get ****, atleast from me.


Edit- Cody, we are going to have words if you call that Edge No DQ or Ladder match overrated one more time. Both were positively wonderful, that Ladder match in particular is my 3rd favorite singles ladder match ever. I love how it's built as a regular wrestling match that just happens to involve a ladder, instead of a stunt fest. Plus Eddie was pure genius in that match, he came up with 3-4 moves I had never seen before, and it was his first ladder match ever !(seriously, that shit with Syxx in WCW does NOT count )


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think much to RVD/Christian. Also don't think much to the Eddie/Edge No DQ match.

RVD/Undertaker Hardcore title match would likely be #4 on RVD's GOAt matches.

Flair/Arn match worth seeing is indeed Fall Brawl. Personally think it's INCREDIBLE. Their cage match on Nitro is nothing special. Think they might have had another match, but that's it. Just watch Fall Brawl :mark:.

Edit: Don't like any of the RVD/Lynn matches too much. Just spotty workrate matches that do bugger all for me personally.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> could Cody, Zep or any other wcw aficionado tell me the best arn/flair match ? Its fall brawl 95 right ?


Was their only match that got any substance behind it. Steel cage from Nitro was much too short.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Are we all at least in agreement that Angle/Jarrett ruled?


I hope you're talking about their worst match ever quality ULTRA MALE RULES from Lockdown. b/c that match was so obscene, I wrote my favorite review on it ever last year.

No matter - all their matches suck. Wait, you're probably talking about that loloverrated No DQ match from Genesis. THE HEEL WINS WITH A CRUCIFIX AFTER ALL THE SPOTS.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

(Y) fall brawl it is, isnt that rvd/christian on ladders 2 DVD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know it's on RVD's set.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Edit: Don't like any of the RVD/Lynn matches too much. Just spotty workrate matches that do bugger all for me personally.


The chain wrestling or "work rate" stuff in that match didn't bother me like it does other times because it fit the story and both guys actually bothered with selling. The story was that RVD was untouchable as the TV champ but JL came in and for whatever reason just had RVD's number. They used the chain wrestling in the beginning as a way to feel each other out. RVD would break and start showing off while JL stayed focused and tried to spot a weakness. I dunno, for whatever reason it just didn't bother me in that match like it does in others. It felt like there was meaning or purpose behind what they were doing.


Edit- does anyone else get as much of a kick out of Owen Harts "2 time slammy" gimmick as I do? God that shit make me laugh out loud every time, he was just great.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Edge and Eddie NO DQ is :mark: Edge's 2002 run was probably his best in terms of match wise:*

Edge-Eddie (NO-DQ) - *****2/3*
Edge/Rey-Angle Benoit (NM)- *****3/4*
Edge/Rey-Angle/Wah (2/3 Falls) -****3/4*
Hair vs. Hair -****3/4*
vs. Brock -****2/3*
Cage w/Jericho -*****
vs. Eddie SS ****3/4*
Survivor Series Elimination Tag *- ****1/2*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Edge & Mysterio vs Brock & Tajiri > those other tags.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Christian/RVD is :mark:. Benoit match and that is his best IMO. last match on Unforgiven is almost starting, LESNAR/TAKER! Doubt its as good as the HIAC match but should be good. What 2002 PPV to do after this? someone give me a random one thats not SS or SVS, saving them for last.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why is this match considered to be awful?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x695p6_rob-van-dam-vs-jerry-lynn-tv-title_sport


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

King Haku vs Junkyard Dog is in the suggested videos below that match. Now it's a party.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

smitty915 said:


> Christian/RVD is :mark:. Benoit match and that is his best IMO. last match on Unforgiven is almost starting, LESNAR/TAKER! Doubt its as good as the HIAC match but should be good. What 2002 PPV to do after this? someone give me a random one thats not SS or SVS, saving them for last.


*Rebellion 2002: 3 pretty good matches on that card.*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hmm...So is Italian Stallions vs. Rougeaus, Blue Blazer vs. Red Rooster, Edge vs. Eddie, and a bunch of other good stuff. Stinger1981 should be a first ballot inductee into the IWC HOF.

Was Rebellion the PPV with Matt Hardy vs. Booker T?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Goldust & Tommy Dreamer Vs Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 06/10/2009

The first of 3 matches on this show I plan on watching!!!

Dreamer and Goldust are great early on, countering the power game of their opponents with speed and experience. Plenty of quick tags between them to keep each other fresh too.

But one small mistake from Goldust paying too much attention to Vlad on the apron costs him, and Big Zeke gains control for his team.

Decent work over on Goldust, then a weird, awkward spot from Zeke before Dreamer gets tagged in lol.

Finish is odd and a little stupid too lol. Overall it's an ok match. Not too long, and they do ok with the time, but a bad finish doesn't help things.

Rating: *

William Regal Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 06/10/2009

Hope this isn't disappointing too lol. A show where I want to watch the entire thing... wouldn't surprise me if everything ended up being bad :lmao.

Regal was rushed into this match and he comes out with a boot still untied, so the referee gives him time to lace up while Yoshi is trying his best to get to Regal. Was thinking this might work into a spot with Regal lacing up then destroying Yoshi who would be caught off guard... but nope lol. Yoshi takes the fight right to Regal! So Regal gets the referee to hold Yoshi back again while he pisses about with his laces :lmao. That little momentum stopper allows Regal to get back into the match properly. So the boots being untied DO come into play .

A couple of awkward spots here, with Striker trying to blame them on Regal's boot not being tied properly :lmao.

"This is boring!" chants from the shitty cunt crowd. I HOPE THEY DIE. Regal is great as usual, all vicious and nasty. Then Yoshi's comeback with hard hitting strikes is :mark:. Shame Regal botches the shit out of the dragon screw leg whip thingy. He just spins around on his feet :lmao.

Yoshi misses a move off the ropes, and Regal looks all confident as he runs at him for a KNEE TREMBLER~! only to get kicked in the head and Yoshi picks up a THIRD win over Regal!!! But Regal's foot is under the rope and the referee is too retarded to realise.

Good stuff! Wasn't disappointed with this thankfully .

Rating: **1/2

Christian Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 06/10/2009

Would have prefered another opponent for Christian, but as long as they keep up the roll of good matches against each other I'll be fine with it for now .

:lmao Regal is still bitching at the referee while Ryder makes his way down to the ring. Zeke and Vlad are randomly just sat down at ringside . Regal eventually joins them to watch this match.

Back and forth between the two to begin with, then Ryder gains the advantage and works the head and neck of Christian... which seems to be an excuse to use a bunch of sleeper holds lol.

Christian's great selling and hope spots are what makes this match, as unfortunately they don't seem to be able to give us another good match like their previous 2 matches. It isn't BAD, just not on the level of their previous bouts. A little disappointing no doubt, but Ryder hitting a double arm underhook powerbomb while REGAL is on the outside watching makes up for all those sleeper holds lol.

Finish is a DQ when Vlad headbutts Christian. KNEE TREMBLER~! Then Ryder gets killed too.

Rating: **1/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Rebellion 2002: 3 pretty good matches on that card.*


Will check it out next, thanks!


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hmm...So is Italian Stallions vs. Rougeaus, Blue Blazer vs. Red Rooster, Edge vs. Eddie, and a bunch of other good stuff. Stinger1981 should be a first ballot inductee into the IWC HOF.
> 
> Was Rebellion the PPV with Matt Hardy vs. Booker T?


* YESSIR. Rebellion was a solid PPV as opposed to Insurrextion of that year which was a piece of shit. *


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Srdjan99 said:


> If only Regal could make a comeback as successful as Goldust.


He would easily make a successful comeback if they give him more matches, but I assume that's not what he wishes/their direction. If his sole performance is anything to go by (I won't count that quick squash on Raw) then he's lost nothing of his goodness.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The rad squash vs Cesaro that happened out of the blue? 

Regal hasn't come close to losing anything.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah Regal's match with Ohno in April proves that Regal's still got it, and he's got oodles of it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cal....

Just watched your youtube vid on why you hate the Miz. Bahaha awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Regals skills aren't something that are gonna diminish with age. The way he works, he could pull a Flair and be one of the top workers on the roster at 55 if he wanted to. I'd be all in on a Regal full time come back. His match with Ohno is top 10 for MoTY for me, he's just as vicious and nasty as ever.

I still watch his match with Benoit at the Pillman show every few months, that match is just wrestling bliss. WWE would be smart to put more young guys in the ring against Regal so they can learn a thing or two about adding credibility/believability to their matches.

Edit- got a link to that Cal video on Miz? Sounds excellent hahaha, Cal's rants are priceless.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*:lmao you only have 5 reasons to hate Miz, Cal? *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Those were just the first 5 I came up with . I'm sure if I put more thought into it I could have done more lol, but I only wanted a short video and one I could do without using any wrestling footage. Cactus, link to my vids is in my sig .

Goldust Vs Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 13/10/2009

:mark:

Like the tag match last week, Goldust does everything he can early on to avoid the POWER of Zeke... but then HOLY SHIT Zeke practically KILLS Goldust with a clothesline. Zeke actually looks SHOCKED after he hits it. I think HE thinks he just killed Goldust lol!!!

Zeke uses basic power and submission holds, which is perfectly fine with Goldust selling all that stuff. Great little hope spot after Zeke does a running crossbody into the corner, and Goldust catches him, only to fall over when he walks out of the corner.

HOLY MOTHERFUCKING SHIT. Goldust just got revenge for that killer clothesline earlier by giving Zeke a big boot to the face that should have left a boot imprint for LIFE.

In the end though, Zeke hits his finisher and picks up the win. Good stuff!

Rating: **1/4

Christian & Yoshi Tatsu Vs William Regal & Zack Ryder - ECW 13/10/2009

Some fun stuff at the start between Yoshi and Ryder, then Christian tags in and takes it to Ryder before doing a little FIP. Regal and Christian stuff is just :mark:. Always :mark:.

Yoshi is tagged in and is now the main FIP, and the stuff between him and Regal is :mark:. Regal in general is just :mark:. UPPERCUT EXCHANGES~!

Ryder unfortunately is completely uninteresting in this match. He started off good with Christian in their singles matches and he seems to be going back downhill where he'll remain. Likely forever because it's 4 years later and he still sucks . Only good stuff involving him in this match is when Christian gets the hot tag and mauls Mr Woo Woo Woo.

Regal takes Yoshi out on the floor, then distracts Christian enough for Ryder to knock him off the ropes. Blind tag and Ryder isn't happy. Regal screams at him to shut up and shit, Christian takes advantage of the distraction and Ryder turns on his own partner! Killswitch and Regal is beaten!

Solid match. Would have been better without Ryder though. He just didn't bring anything to the match.

Rating: **


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Miz's WWE Title reign was better than Taker's 2009 WHC Title reign. Prove me otherwise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Miz had no good promos and his only good match was against Lawler in TLC. Undertaker cut a couple of good promos, had a good match with Jericho on SD, a couple of solid PPV matches (4 way, 3 way, Mysertio RR) and a decent EC match where he lost the belt.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What PPV matches did Miz have as champion?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Unforgiven 2002 review​*
*Match # 1: Kane, Goldust, Booker T, and Bubba Dudley vs Lance Storm, Christian, William Regal, and test*

Interesting start to the night as this should be a very fun match judging by who is in it. Really Energetic opener that helped the crowd get hot for now, which is exactly what the opener is supposed to do. All these guys can work and the face team is way over and the heel team is getting legit heat, so some pure FUN stuff to start out tonight. Really fun match that set the night off on a good mark, nice to see the face team win too. *** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 4*

*Match # 2: Chris Jericho vs Ric Flair( IC title match)*

Rematch from Summerslam here, but this was one of the less memorable matches of that PPV, lets hope that they can put on a better show this time, lord knows they can both work great matches. Once again flair just isn’t flair here and Jericho is decent at best. Its too bad knowing that if they wrestled when Flair was in his prime it could be fap worthy. But old Flair didn’t care at this point until he started Evolution with HHH. *1/4

*CAL SCALE: 0
*
*Eddie Gurrero vs Edge*

Another Summerslam rematch here and this one was a blast at Summerslam and could be even better here. Another decent match between these two. I cant remember how good the SS match was but I do remember liking it. This got a lot better the last 5 minutes after the first 10 minutes were a little boring but it became a lot better by the end. I have no idea if its better than their summerslam match as I hve no recollection of the match. Solid match, *** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 4*

*Match # 4: 3 minute warning vs Billy and Chuck*

Who the fuck are the three minute warning? Eh they probably suck :lol. Apparently if one of the teams win then Bischoff has to legit kiss Steph’s ass…hes an idiot for not throwing this shit . Really boring and short match to the point where I don’t even feel like writing about it. *

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 5: HHH vs RVD( World Heavyweight title)*

This should be at least decent, as RVD can be a good worker when he wants to, pretty much the same deal with trips. This is the first WHC defense in WWE history, as the WWE title went to SD after Lesnar won at Summerslam so the WHC was born. Awesome match, I don’t know what the general consensus of this match is, but it is my MOTN so far, just awesome and not too spotty compared to some RVD matches. I personally loved the ending, with Flair turning heel on RVD and aligning himself with HHH that would last nearly three years. Really fun match that I think is under the radar a little but as I never hear people talk about it a ton. Some may think this rating is a little high but IMO it is justified. *** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 4*

*Match # 6: Molly Holly vs Trish Stratus( Womens title)*

Boring match, Molly Holly sucks and I have legit zero interest in watching this shit at all. I mean, Mollly isn’t even hot! What the fuck is up with that! Crowd has about as much interest in this match as they do seeing Ryback cut a promo, thank god its short, and Molly lost! DUD 

*Cal Scale: 0*

*Match # 7: Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle*

I honestly have never seen a match between these two, which is why I always shut up about them when we are talking about it. Nevertheless my expectations are low just because apparently they have terrible chemistry. I actually thought this match was okay, it was nothing special, but I found myself enjoying it all the way through. ***

*CAL SCALE: 2*

*Match # 8: Brock Lesnar vs the Undertaker*

Obviously this isn’t the HIAC classic that IMO is Bork’s second best match, this is one I haven’t seen before, but apparently it ends in a double DQ, which sucks. Anyway this wasn’t anything special, but it was still a decent brawl, if it was like the HIAC match the next month then it would be so much better, but don’t get me wrong, its still decent, but It could be better. Not a fan of the ending at all, you don’t end the Main event of a PPV with a no DQ! WWE still hasn’t learned it but at least the battleground ending went with the storyline. ** ¾*

*CAL SCALE: 1*

*TOTAL CAL SCALE: 15*

Overall: ok PPV that had a few fun matches. MOTN here is Edge/Eddie but HHH/RVD is a close second. Angle/Benoit was fun but it’s too bad the ME did not deliver at all, if that was like 4 stars then we could have a nice PPV on our hands. Instead we got a meh one with three ***3/4 matches and a subpar ME. 

*CURRENT PPV MOTY: Tajiri vs Billy Kidman( backlash)*

*Current 2002 PPV rankings 

1: Unforgiven(15)
2: Backlash( 11.5)​*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I only remember Orton RR (bad, bad match). Lawler at EC (bad match too, got nothing on their TLC match from Raw), Cena at WM (urgh. urgh urgh urgh urgh urgh), then Cena again I think? and some triple threat cage where Cena wins the belt back which was meh at best.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Callamus said:


> I only remember Orton RR (bad, bad match). Lawler at EC (bad match too, got nothing on their TLC match from Raw), Cena at WM (urgh. urgh urgh urgh urgh urgh), then Cena again I think? and some triple threat cage where Cena wins the belt back which was meh at best.


Can't remember the Orton match, most likely because it's bad. Thought Lawler at EC was decent but fuck if I actually know. Never seen that Mania main event which says it all. 

Was he champion when he had that falls count anywhere match with Morrison? If so I'd take that over anything from Taker's 09 title reign.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I enjoyed the triple threat cage match, Morrison did all the OMG high spots, Cena did the wrestling portion and Miz...well people wanted Miz get his ass beat so there's that. I liked that better than FCA with JoMo and the match with Lawler. *


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Morisson/Miz FCA is godly, **** from me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Forgot about the Morrison match on Raw. Was good, not great. Undertaker/Rey > than it. TLC with Lawler > anything from Undertaker's reign though, but 2 good matches in a reign that lasted what, 6 months (?) does not make a good reign in the slightest lol. Everything about it bar those 2 matches was horrible. Undertaker was still pulling out good performances despite being injured the entire time.

Hmmm... Undertaker/Punk on SD was during Undertaker's title run, right? Think it was their "blow off" match during their 09 reign so year, it will have been. So scratch the "TLC with Lawler > anything from Undertaker's reign" because the Punk SD match was better .

Miz reign:

TLC Lawler - ***1/2
FCA Morrison - ***

Undertaker's reign:

HIAC Punk - ***1/2 (where he wins it)
SD Punk - ****
SD Jericho - ***
3 way SVS - ***
4 way from whenever - ***
RR Rey - ***1/4 or something
EC - ***


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

that miz/lawler tlc is stellar, loved it, closes thing for the miz is he did have a good raw match with Cena I think the week after otl


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I've blacked out everything about Miz's title reign. I remember all those matches happening, but don't remember much about them. Part of me wishes they had let Lawler win the belt and let him defend it against Cena at Mania. Would have been a ton better than what we got.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Wow, that went a lot more civil than I thought it would.






Way better than any of Undertaker's PPV matches during that reign.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I've blacked out everything about Miz's title reign. I remember all those matches happening, but don't remember much about them. Part of me wishes they had let Lawler win the belt and let him defend it against Cena at Mania. Would have been a ton better than what we got.


*No, silly. 

We would've had :cole3 vs. :lawler for the WWE Championship at Mania 27...which still would've been better than Miz-Cena.*


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

rjsbx1 said:


> *No, silly.
> 
> We would've had :cole3 vs. :lawler for the WWE Championship at Mania 27...which still would've been better than Miz-Cena.*


Let's not get crazy here.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:kobe at the thought of that.

I honestly think a heel Lawler vs Cena could have been pretty decent, even with Jerry at 60. The cage match at ER was pretty much, "Okay, Cena's winning the belt back now." Then the Capitol Punishment match with R-Truth happened. After the GOAT I Quit Match, of course.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Miz/Cena was bad, but dude I would've taken Khali/Otunga over Lawler/Cole ffs.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I joke of course, when I say that. I still don't know why they gave that (Lawler/Cole) match SO much time...and then consequently bumped Bryan/Sheamus off the card. Then again that whole show was poorly mismanaged with time and all that.

In regards to the Capitol Punishment match, the buildup was awesome and the match and that finish...eh not so much.*


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock is to blame for Sheamus/Brran being bumped. A pointless 15 minute promo that went nowhere, achieved nothing and was utter shite. FUCK YOU DWAYNEY.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Cole vs. Lawler was about 15 minutes too long. Wait, was it even 15 minutes long? Fuck that match. 

Bryan vs. Sheamus could've gotten so much time without the unneeded time for Cole vs. Lawler, the damn backstage segments (Rock/Austin staredown can stay), and the Rock's 20 minute soliloquy to open.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hell remove the god awful WWE title match and we could have had Sheamus Vs Bryan in a 60 minute Iron Man match. That + Undertaker HHH would have probably made it the GOAT WM .


----------



## Oliver-94 (Jan 10, 2012)

"When I say Wrestle, you say MANIA!" :rock


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Fuck Snooki too (not in that way). They should've just done Ziggler vs. JoMo. Trish can stay though :homer :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I stand to be corrected the miz/cena raw is 5/2/11 night after ex

its a good match, cena was the champ though, geez I hate the miz. Its funny hearing most of the commentary in this match, they plug mania 28 every minute and mania 27 was a month ago, its pretty clear that if PIPEBOMB and summer of punk DIDNT happen the wwe were just planning on coasting on until rock/cena, ARENT WE lucky


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Apparently, the match itself went about 12-13 minutes just for Lawler not to win confused...then add in all the other shit that happened after the match. It went longer than Edge's last match, a really quality Rhodes/Rey match, and two 6-man tags. 

Yeah, I like Rocky and all but that promo went south quickly.*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sad to think that Morrison actually had some semblance of momentum around that time. Fans were really getting behind him and his credibility soared after that series of matches with Sheamus. Dude also had a similar run of momentum in 2009, but then he lost all direction for no reason. Punk/Morrison WHC feud would have been off the charts.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Miz's WWE Title reign was better than Taker's 2009 WHC Title reign. Prove me otherwise.


You're just bitter that Taker owned your hero Punk. 

Speaking of WM27, they should've just had Orton vs Cena for the WWE Title. Orton was so damn over at the time, they sabotaged his momentum as a face themselves. Put him in a random feud with Punk based on something that happened three years earlier and then moved him to Smackdown when the show officially lost all star power. I know they tried to make SD his brand but the way they went about it was fucking stupid.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Mania 27 technicallly should have had punk/cena as the main event, orton/cena got crickets at the royal rumble, the aura in that feud was long long gone

:lmao can anyone find a video with the cena/orton face off


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A Mizin Afternoon

cena/miz 5/2/11 ***3/4
jomo/miz FCA *** 3/4

On to the lawler/miz tlc,

FCA is good, just slightly overrated, Ive seen ****1/2 thrown at it multiple times. its funny because beside these if I watched the bryan and Rey matches I would have watched all the great miz matches

Question why do ppl say and compared JOMO to HBK ?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

redskins25 said:


> Mania 27 technicallly should have had punk/cena as the main event, orton/cena got crickets at the royal rumble, the aura in that feud was long long gone
> 
> :lmao can anyone find a video with the cena/orton face off






Starts aroud 1:10:00.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just turning on Rebelllion 2002 now, anyone else connect youtube to their PS3? I'm watching a youtube video with decent quality on a 50 inch TV


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I think I'm one of the few guys who preferred Miz over John Morrison. Never digged or found the appeal of JoMo for some reason


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Starts aroud 1:10:00.


:lmao :lmao that is incredible, its worst than I remembered


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Highlight of the night tbh. Best thing they've ever done together. I legitimately burst out laughing at like 3am watching it live :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

its almost 3 years later and I just cried laughing, the 10 second countdown got a bigger pop :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Highlight of the night tbh. Best thing they've ever done together. I legitimately burst out laughing at like 3am watching it live :lmao.


I may somewhat not agree with you on the comparison of Miz's bad WWE title reign and Undertaker's WHC reign, but I can agree with this. Thank goodness those two haven't had a match against each other since then.

Did Finlay ever carry Miz to a good match? What about Henry? Surely something like that happened in ECW. Maybe 2008.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Every time I watch any match or segment before 2008 on YouTube, the top comment is always some variation of "WWE sucks now and it was so much better in (insert year the video takes place in here)." Gets pretty repetitive. :side:

Nevertheless, I'm currently looking for something to watch on YouTube


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

coming from a guy whos name is PGsucks


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

It's funny that people hate Bret / HBK WM 12 match as in his last show Austin said that he is a mark for it. On the steambot dvd during his commentary on his 84 match against Flair, he mentioned that if he faced Shawn he would set the match like the iron man match with Bret & he put the match over big time.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep, that's certainly funny...

Christian/Jericho match is the main event for the next ECW 09 show :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just because scsa and steamboat like a match, doesnt mean I have too ? match is shite it truly is


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

lemo said:


> It's funny that people hate Bret / HBK WM 12 match as in his last show Austin said that he is a mark for it. On the steambot dvd during his commentary on his 84 match against Flair, he mentioned that if he faced Shawn he would set the match like the iron man match with Bret & he put the match over big time.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Many wrestlers respect it and reference it quite a bit, but everyone's allowed their opinion. Everyone's gonna have different tastes. Just don't like how people speak as definitive authorities, though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

two matches left in Rebellion 2002, already one match over **** and I still got Angle/Benoit vs Eddie/Chavo and Bork/Edge


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I may have to watch that ironman match to officially have a clear opinion on it. But I'm hesitant because of all the comments about how boring it is until the last 10 or so minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I remember thinking orton/cena ironman was ok, just the quintessential cheesy gimmicky 2009 match, but it was ok executed well for a hour match, been a while though


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

How was the SD 6 man? Too lazy to scroll back.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I may have to watch that ironman match to officially have a clear opinion on it. But I'm hesitant because of all the comments about how boring it is until the last 10 or so minutes.


It's one you'll really have to form your own opinion on. Views strongly diverge, but being that you're a fan of mat wrestling, I think that you will appreciate it on some level, for that alone. Plus, I found it far less slow than people indicate (and since you're a fan of Orton's methodical work, like me, you probably have a higher tolerance in general for slowness, though this really didn't feel that slow to me). Then again, I went in with lowered expectations due to what some around here say.

TripleG's review from earlier in the thread sums up my feelings, though I'm sure we'll get the "totally awful" comments as well:


> WRESTLEMANIA XII (1996)
> 
> This one still suffered from some of the problems that the post Hogan Wrestlemanias suffered from. There is very little atmosphere, the roster was thin, the shows don't feel special, & there isn't much pageantry. Where they made up for it was in its main event. Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels in a 60 Minute Iron Man Match is a wrestling clinic I actually found myself enjoying it more on this viewing than I had in the past. It really is a well crafted athletic display. The show is basically all about them as that match pretty much took up half the event. It also has Taker Vs. Diesel and Piper Vs. Goldust on the undercard which were pretty entertaining in their own right. Also, while their debuts were lackluster, seeing Triple H & "Stone Cold" Steve Austin make their Mania debuts is still interesting to watch. Watching them here, I am very surprised that they ultimately rose to the level they did.


It also is so weird to see Austin come out in the black boots and black tights to no reaction. Wow how things can change in just a few months!

ETA: And here's my review.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just watched Bryan/Rhodes vs. Shield a couple hours ago (fell asleep Friday night because I had to wake up early :side, and it's really good. I'd say it's close to or on the level of the Hell No vs. Shield tags from earlier this year, and the finishing stretch is :mark:. Crowd gets hot for Bryan too, despite the fact that it's nowhere near a sellout :lol


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

*Triple H: Thy Kingdom Come Disc 2*

Jean-Paul Levesque vs. Ricky Steamboat - WCW Saturday Night - September 1994: **3/4

Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Dude Love - WWF One Night Only 1997: ***

Triple H vs. The Rock (c) for the WWF Championship - Iron Man Match - WWF Judgment Day 2000: ***1/2

Triple H vs. Kurt Angle - No Disqualification Match - WWF Unforgiven 2000: ***1/2


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

So I'm near the end of the 3 disc Austin DVD and I can't believe they put the math with Triple H on there from Survivor Series when they cut out a huge chunk of the backstage stuff with Benoit. Triple H went from literally laying on the floor inside to behind the wheel of a car outside in about 2 seconds. 

I feel like they should have just found a different match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They should have found a different match anyway because that one BLOWS .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*I'm glad you decided to watch Rebellion '02, smitty. Probably one of the better 2002 PPVs just based on match quality. Even the filler matches were decent.*


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Don't you also hate their 3 Stages of Hell?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TaylorFitz said:


> Don't you also hate their 3 Stages of Hell?


Gave it ***1/4, so not really HATE, just don't find to be great. SVS 00 match is pure garbage with nothing really good about it whatsoever .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Gave it ***1/4, so not really HATE, just don't find to be great. SVS 00 match is pure garbage with nothing really good about it whatsoever .


Cal your videos are hysterical I just spent a good 30-40 minutes watching them, good work sir.


They should go with "Miz: The most must punch face in WWE history," :lmao

Shit, that's a great idea. Instead of that lame ass MizTV show, they should just have Miz come out each week and get laid out by a different member of the roster. That would do some seriously high ratings. I vote they hire Terry Funk for one day just so he can lay Miz out with that beautiful left hand he throws. Have Vader come out and do the same next week :lol

Does anyone happen to have a good link to Finlay/Regal Uncensored, preferably YouTube but I'll take anything. Those cunts took down the video I had been using for years, I select it full of excitement thinking about to watch the epic ***** masterpiece I've seen a dozen times, and instead get static :frustrate

What's everyone watching these days? I need something fresh.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

***1/4 isn't hating a match by any means. 

I'll be watching that one later I loved years ago when I last watched it but I usually end up being a big fan of long matches on first viewing. After my first watch of Triple H/Shawn Michaels HIAC I thought it was the greatest match I had ever seen. I still like the match despite what everyone says about it but I'm not as crazy about the match as I used to be.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

rjsbx1 said:


> *I'm glad you decided to watch Rebellion '02, smitty. Probably one of the better 2002 PPVs just based on match quality. Even the filler matches were decent.*


Exceept for the kiss my ass match 

ME is on now, pretty fun. That tag match though :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cactus Jack said:


> Does anyone happen to have a good link to Finlay/Regal Uncensored, preferably YouTube but I'll take anything. Those cunts took down the video I had been using for years, I select it full of excitement thinking about to watch the epic ***** masterpiece I've seen a dozen times, and instead get static :frustrate



Link 1 or 2 (the first was giving me problems, though that's probably just my internet acting up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal's epic WCW Blueblood theme :mark:.

Oh yeah the match rules and shit .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

*Rebellion 2002 review​*
*Match # 1: Booker T vs Matt Hardy*

Steph cuts a promo about how this is the first SD specific PPV. Which is cool except Booker T is on RAW :lol. Really fun match, and its amazing how all three PPVs I have watched from 2002 have all had solid openers. Crowd was very hot for this match and most likely will be all night as this is in England! One of the best crowds out there! Booker was super over at this time and Hardy was getting some sick heat and he always plays an awesome heel. Anyway booker wins and cuts a short promo. *** ½* 

*CAL SCALE: 3*

*Match # 2: John Cena and Dawn Marie vs. Billy Kidman and Torrie Wilson*

Wow this was back when Cena was pretty much in the undercard, anyway this is a waste of Billy Kidmans talent because Cena is way too green to do shit :lol. And divas suck soo. Cena at this point looks like the most nerdy-looking wrestler I have ever fucking seen, AND HE STILL SMILED BACK THEN TOO! Cena and Kidman are good but these Divas cant do jack shit so I lose interest quickly. Apparently Cena is a heel because he pulls Wilson’s hair! SO WHY THE FUCK IS HE SMILING? Last I heard heels are supposed to scowl and shit, not look like he just got lucky with a diva in the back. Shitty match, and its werid hearing no reaction for Cena. DUD

*Cal scale: 0*

*Match # 3: Funaki vs. Crash Holly*

I love Funaki, and crash can be good when hes not a joke, so this should be solid. You know, for the amount of Japanese wrestlers I like, you think I would have seen some NJPW, but I haven’t, maybe after this PPV. This match is awesome! Funaki is a fantastic wrestler! I don’t think he is as good as Tajiri but he is very close. Too bad it’s a little short, but what a 7-8 minute match! *** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 3*

*Match # 4: Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio vs Jamie Noble( Crusierweight title elimination match)* 

You already know that I’m a cruiserweight mark at this point right? :lol. This should be a potential MOTN but Angle/Benoit vs Los Gurreros and Lesnar/Edge could be better. Awesome opening part of the match with some sick spots from Tajiri until he gets eliminated about 6 minutes in, luckily rey and noble are both great workers. Rey and Noble put on a beautiful match that makes me love both of these guys even more. I think it would have been better if you had a regular triple threat so Tajiri can show his magic even more. **** 

*CAL SCALE: 5*

*Match # 5: Reverend D-Von and Ron Simmons vs. The Big Valbowski and Chuck Palumbo 
*
No idea who the big valboski is, but simmons and D-von are good and haven’t seen enough Chuck Palumbo to judge him. Most likely this will be short, as it seems like this will be filler. Yeah it was filler because it only lasts like 5 minutes, its nothing special but its not puke worthy. * 

*CAL SCALE: 0*

*Match # 6: Test vs Rikishi( Kiss my ass match)*

Oh no, the PPV was going so well. If it wasn’t for this stip it could be a decent match, but I don’t want to see someone kiss someone’s ass, that’s just plain up nasty, especially these two. This was way to long, it was nearly 15 minutes, this doesn’t beat out Hulk/HHH for worst match so far through three reviews, but damn is it close. NO 
CAL SCALE: -1

*Match # 7 Eddie and Chavo Gurrero vs Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit *

This is gonna be MOTN, I guarantee it, if it gets at least 15 minutes, it will be my new MOTY through three PPVS. The Cruiserweight triple threat has already beat out Tajiri/Kidman from backlash as my current MOTY but this should be better. Why is the crowd chanting we want angle? Benoit is a fucking beast, why chant for angle? Anyway one of my favorite tag matches of the 21st century, possibly in my top 10 all time, this is called building a fucking storyline in a match, just pure genious, if Bork/Edge tops this will have a top 25 PPV ever. **** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 7*

*Match # 8: Brock Lesnar and Paul Heyman vs edge( WWE title)*

Paul Heyman in a handicap match? Well, this sure sounds familiar . Anyway solid match, not aas good as some would hope and its unfortunate its only #3 in terms of matches on this show. I really liked the Heyman parts because it really reminded me of his current character right now in the WWE, treating Edge like CM Punk almost. Brock is great in this but I wasn’t too impressed with Edge in this, I felt like he just wasn’t ready for the main event push. Still a decent match. *** ½*

*CAL SCALE: 3*

*TOTAL CAL SCALE: 20*

Overall: holy shit that’s a high score. Almost everything but the cena shit and the Rikishi/albert match ws at the very least decent. MOTN and MOTYC in Benoit/ angle vs Los Gurreros which will most likely be in my top 5 matches of 2002. Possibly highest cal scale of the year, SS is the only competition for a score so high. Definitly recommend this PPV and thanks to rjsbx1 for convincing me to watch it. 

*CURRENT 2002 PPV MOTY: Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit vs Los Gurreros( Rebellion)*


*Current 2002 PPV rankings
1: Rebellion(20)
2: Unforgiven(15)
3: Backlash( 11.5)*​*
*
Think I’ll try watching some NJPW to see if I like it now. Maybe some Dragon/Claudio ROH stuff too


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like Funaki way more than your average person but Tajiri massacres him. Funaki's usually like the 9th best guy in a great M-Pro tag, but that's mostly because he's surrounded by incredible guys like TAKA, Dick Togo, Sasuke and Delphin. Tajiri at his best in like #1 in the world.

The Big Valbowski is Val Venis, btq (meant to be btw but typo and btq looks cooler).


Also I'm pretty sure 'NO' on the Cal scale is when you refuse to watch the match.  Sounds like you watched Test/Kish. Maybe I'm mis-reading. Who knows. Tongue smiley.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh I thought NO was just like, its VERY bad


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Indeed a NO -1 rating is when you outright refuse to watch a match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright that makes sense. I've done that plenty of times but just rated it DUD. In the mood for some ECW, watching Terry Funk vs Sabu born to be wired 1997. Sounds good on paper.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thinking about reviewing extreme rules 11 or 10 cant decide


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

11 has the awesome Christian/ADR ladder match. 2010 has....I forget


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

2010 has Cena/Batista LMS :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do 2011 since Yeah1993 is supposedly doing 2010. And I stress that "supposedly". 2011 had Orton/Punk, RHODES/MYSTERIO, CHRISTIAN/ADR, and the triple threat main event cage match that is either good or average. Haven't seen it since the night it aired. Had the GOAT post-match promo too :cena4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ex 11 it is then

have seen del rio/christian like 4x already but ONE MORE TIME


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thank you very much Rah, greatly appreciated.


Would I be remiss to say that Finlay/Regal Uncensored and Eddie/Rey HH97' are the 2 best matches in WCW history? I think they just might be. I love the Flair/Steamboat trilogy, the final match is Nashville is probably my favorite of the bunch, but I honestly prefer these 2 to that series. I love Flair/Vader SC93', but again, those two take the cake.

Can someone definitively tell me that there has been a better match than these 2 in WCW? They are completely different yet so absolutely fantastic in their own way, that's why I can't choose a favorite.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Well Jack I wholeheartedly agree on Mysterio/Guerrero and I believe that if I were to show a wrestling fan who has never seen a match before one match that would be my pick. Not to mention this match set a new standard for lightweight wrestling in america in my opinion. 

Any human being loves and can appreciate athleticism, and considering wrestling at its most basic level is rooting for your guy against a bad guy, I would show them the revolutionary Eddie Guerrero/Rey Mysterio match at Halloween Havoc 1997. Sure this match is heavy in heel psychology by Guerrero that first time viewers wouldn't understand, but the great high spots displayed by Mysterio in particular is very eye catching, which is what a first time viewer needs. This combined with the great heel Eddie plays with the psychology implemented by Guerrero is an instant classic that is easy to watch. There are enough false finishes to hold a new fan on the edge of his seat, as he wouldn't understand the honor of the lucha tradition of masked wrestlers, hence he wouldn't be able to deduce Rey Mysterio wasn't losing this one. Great match for starting fans.


As for Finlay/Regal uncensored, I think the second greatest wcw match is Benoit vs Hart in 98 at the Owen Hart tribute show. Pure wrestling and as a purist I love it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> Fuck Snooki too (not in that way). They should've just done Ziggler vs. JoMo. Trish can stay though :homer :mark:


Yeah I'd rather put my dong in battery acid then Snooki.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just watched the Angle/Benoit vs Guerreros tag match from Rebellion after reading smitty's review. Wonderful stuff and more of the great tag work that I love involving Kurt and Benoit. ★★★¾

Btw, one thing I couldn't miss was Benoit doing one of the loudest spot-callings I've ever come across. Right before he back suplexes Chavo out of the ring, in the clearest voice possible you'll hear him say "You throw me, Eddie".


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright I'm trying to finish up my ladder DVD tonight and hopefully get a 2002 PPV done tomorrow, gonna do RR me thinks. 

Speaking of the ladder DVD, what is the feeling on Eddie/Rey SS? I think its awesome, **** from me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> Alright I'm trying to finish up my ladder DVD tonight and hopefully get a 2002 PPV done tomorrow, gonna do RR me thinks.
> 
> Speaking of the ladder DVD, what is the feeling on Eddie/Rey SS? I think its awesome, **** from me.


If you removed all the botches and Vickie's missed que, it would be damn close to a 5-Star match. As it is, even with the botches, it's still a storytelling masterpiece and the character work by both wrestlers is sublime. Prolly around ***3/4-**** from me. Damn those bothes.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

yeah the botches do suck, but that storytelling :mark:

Oh how I miss Eddie  RIP


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If their ladder match is ***** then JD, SD, GAB and hell even their cage is about ***************** .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

smitty915 said:


> yeah the botches do suck, but that storytelling :mark:
> 
> Oh how I miss Eddie  RIP


Ain't that the truth. I watched his match at NWO vs Brock a few days ago for the billionth time and it made me smile, I'm glad he got to achieve his dream and have his moment on the mountain top. There will never, ever, be another Eddie Guerrero.

Speaking of Brock, I just found a match, Brock vs Benojt from Smackdown 12-4-03. What are people's thoughts about this one? I've seen a Brock/Benoit match before that was terrific, it ended in the Brock Lock, but I don't think this is it....that match was only 12-14 minutes and this one says it has a run time of 27 minutes. It's downloading now. How have I never heard of this?


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

So fuckin' good


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They only had the one match, with the Brock Lock lol. So it probably has a bunch of shit before and/or after the actual match .


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Eddie-Rey Summerslam 2005 -****. Awesome storytelling, although I just laugh at the fact they are fighting for the custody of a child in a ladder match. That whole feud outside of the matches (and that one Eddie promo) was :lmao*


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Do 2011 since Yeah1993 is supposedly doing 2010. And I stress that "supposedly".


I'mdoingitOK!?



Cactus Jack said:


> Would I be remiss to say that Finlay/Regal Uncensored and Eddie/Rey HH97' are the 2 best matches in WCW history? I think they just might be. I love the Flair/Steamboat trilogy, the final match is Nashville is probably my favorite of the bunch, but I honestly prefer these 2 to that series. I love Flair/Vader SC93', but again, those two take the cake.
> 
> Can someone definitively tell me that there has been a better match than these 2 in WCW? They are completely different yet so absolutely fantastic in their own way, that's why I can't choose a favorite.


my best of WCW list a year and a half ago had them both top 10, but not at the top:

1. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions 4/2/89)
2. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Landover House Show 3/18/89)
3. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (WrestleWar 5/7/89)
4. Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc 10/26/97)
5. Rick Rude v Ricky Steamboat (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
6. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Clash of the Champions 11/15/89)
7. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Chi-Town Rumble 2/20/89)
8. Big Van Vader v Sting (SuperBrawl 2/21/93)
9. Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Steve Austin v Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (WrestleWar 5/17/92)
10. Fit Finlay v Steven Regal (Uncensored 3/24/96)

The cut-off date for WCW was 11/24/88, fwiw (as in, everything before that wouldn't count as 'WCW')


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

half way through extreme rules 11, alot of meh here


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> Speaking of Brock, I just found a match, Brock vs Benojt from Smackdown 12-4-03. What are people's thoughts about this one? I've seen a Brock/Benoit match before that was terrific, it ended in the Brock Lock, but I don't think this is it....that match was only 12-14 minutes and this one says it has a run time of 27 minutes. It's downloading now. How have I never heard of this?


It's the same match. The 27 minutes is for the betting segment before it and it probably includes the off air stuff with Benoit getting up and walking to the back too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

And in the poll overall Finlay/Regal only got #25 and Eddie/Rey got the #1 spot!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

watching Flair/Edge on the ladder match DVD, fun match, amazing how flair could go at age 55. Only three matches left after this. Cena/Edge, Nitro/Hardy, and the Armegeddon 06 match. Might end after this match and start RR 2002.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If Finlay/Regal had a proper finish, it might be my favorite fight ever. Heck, even a brawl to the back and then a continued brawl throughout the show a la HHH/Foley IYH: CS is enough for that match to be the GOAT.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> Thank you very much Rah, greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> Would I be remiss to say that Finlay/Regal Uncensored and Eddie/Rey HH97' are the 2 best matches in WCW history? I think they just might be. I love the Flair/Steamboat trilogy, the final match is Nashville is probably my favorite of the bunch, but I honestly prefer these 2 to that series. I love Flair/Vader SC93', but again, those two take the cake.
> ...


They're def worthy of being mentioned up there. Finlay vs Regal is probably my second favorite behind Midnight Express vs Southern Boys GAB '90. Makes me wish I was Elite with the other crew _(they know who they are)_ and participated in the greatest WCW matches poll. I could still make my own, but it loses a bit of fun without the whole gang joining in.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

only the 3way cage and del/christian left

I'd personal have either flair/steamboat ww or chi town rumble or flair/vader sc as top wcw matches, funk/flair is up there as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Flair's '89 the entire way could fill out someone's top ten and it'll be logical. 

Just went back a few pages and can't believe the Miz vs Lawler TLC match is liked more than their Elimination Chamber match. Don't think the TLC is anything more than average with contrived spots & the PPV match blew me away with how much I dug it. Lawler was on fire in it. Drama there seemed more heightened even with WM on the horizon. Dunno. Bought into it more - from a work & story perspective - than the RAW match. Which is something I didn't expect to happen.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Havent seen any of the Miz/Lawler stuff. I absolutely love me some Lawler, but I just don't have any desire to ruin the great memories I have of him battling Austin Idol and Terry Funk with a craptastic match vs Miz. Maybe I was wrong to judge before I saw them.

And dammit, I legit thought I'd found some hidden gem with the Benoit/Brock match. Ugh. Oh well, I'll watch it again anyways, Brock and Benoit are 2 of the best for me.

Flairs '89 was just nuts. Coincidence that 88-89' was probably Michael Jordan's peak and when he started establishing his GOAT credentials? I think not. 


What's the general consensus for WarGames matches in WCW? What's the best one out there? I've have the set on Amazon Instant on my TV and can watch any match I chose for .99 cents.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

1991 & 1992.

The essential classics among War Games. I don't remember 1994, but I like to think that one worked considering who's involved.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Cleavage said:


> So fuckin' good


Indeed it is. That whole episode of Smackdown is all kinds of fun. The Triple Threat match between Rey Mysterio, Jamie Noble, and Tajiri mark, a solid match between the Los Guerreros and Palumbo & Stamboli, a great tag match between TWGTT and Benoit & Rhyno, and Brock Lesnar F-5ing Paul Heyman inside a Steel Cage. Heyman's determination to get out of the Steel Cage match all throughout the episode never gets old. I also seem to recall Matt Hardy and Billy Kidman being a fun little match.

By the way, what did you think of the tag match between TWGTT and the Los Guerreros for the WWE tag team titles from 2/6/03? It's easily the best tag match between the two.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Best WarGames as far as me is concerned:

1. WrestleWar 92
2. First one ever at GAB 87 (could be #1, would need to see them both again)
3. WrestleWar 91
4. Fall Brawl 94
5. That GAB 88 one that first saw a release on the WWE Horsemen set?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jheri putting down War Games in '94 leads me to believe I'm on the right path mentioning it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is there anyone that prefers Wrestlewar 91 over Wrestlewar 92? Something about the ending of 91 just felt so special. Sid went crazy with those powerbombs, and I couldn't help but feel so bad for Pillman. Dude nearly got beheaded.

Most of the Wargames matches outside of the big two are very underappreciated. Heck, even Fall Brawl 94 had a good one. Let's ignore the nWo era Wargames matches though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've seen '91 over '92 way more, so I'm basically on the side of preferring '91 atm. It's been a little bit since I last saw the Dangerous Alliance vs Sting's Squadron goodness. Wished I had it on DVD. Think that's my cue to purchase the War Games set.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Some are kind of apathetic to the 94 one IIRC, but I can't help but think that they're just bothered by lack of blood. Well they're wrong and it's fucking great. Looked up my WCW list again and I had it at #32.


I know people who have preferred 91 to 92, but I've never been one of them. In fact the first few watches I didn't really LOVE love the 91 one either. I was wrong, obv. Put that at #17. Wish I hadn't put it above Vader/Dustin. I put Vader/Dustin too fucking low, I think. Goddamn 2010 me, I swear. Dickhead.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Sounds good I'm gonna go ahead and watch both 91' and 92'. Thanks, some how in all my years watching wrestling I've only seen the original one in 87' and the non Tower one in 88', plus from 96-on live as a kid. I never remember enjoying the ones I saw from 96-on


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SLIM SHADY LP™;25307929 said:


> Indeed it is. That whole episode of Smackdown is all kinds of fun. The Triple Threat match between Rey Mysterio, Jamie Noble, and Tajiri mark, a solid match between the Los Guerreros and Palumbo & Stamboli, a great tag match between TWGTT and Benoit & Rhyno, and *Brock Lesnar F-5ing Paul Heyman inside a Steel Cage.* Heyman's determination to get out of the Steel Cage match all throughout the episode never gets old. I also seem to recall Matt Hardy and Billy Kidman being a fun little match.
> 
> By the way, what did you think of the tag match between TWGTT and the Los Guerreros for the WWE tag team titles from 2/6/03? It's easily the best tag match between the two.


Is that also where the Botchamania classic occurs? Of course I'm talking about Angle coming to Heyman's rescue by breaking the padlock chain to get in but fails after 2 minutes of trying and instead climbs the cage to enter. rofl.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Is that also where the Botchamania classic occurs? Of course I'm talking about Angle coming to Heyman's rescue by breaking the padlock chain to get in but fails after 2 minutes of trying and instead climbs the cage to enter. rofl.


Yup. :lol

What was even more hilarious is Brock having to stand there for 2 minutes with Heyman on his shoulders, waiting for Angle to get inside the ring.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WarGames match 1992

Match starts out with Windham vs Austin. Within 1 minute, I'm saying to myself, "what the fuck ever happened to Barry Windham?" That guy was so talented, he really had it all and could work face as well as heel. I guess he just stopped taking care of himself and faded away. Shame. Most fans these days have no idea who Windham was or just how good he used to be.

Austin's busted up in 4 minutes and Barry doesn't give the slightest fuck. He rams Austin's head into the cage again, the grabs a headlock and starts biting the bloody wound and shouts "here's a post card for mamma!":lmao. Fuck if I know what that means, but it made me lol. The Dangerous Alliance wins the flip and Mr. Rick Rude himself checks in. Full disclosure: I fucking love Rick Rude. His 1992 was sublime. He gets high marks across the board, one of my 5 favorite heels ever. God Rude is so fucking cut, I could do a million sit ups a day for 10 years and I doubt I could get like that.

Have Windham and Rude had any singles matches of note? I think they could rule the earth together.

Clock winds down and Steamboat checks in. Holy fuck Steamboat is going nuts and the crowd is fucking HOT. He legit just full force punched Rude in the noggin. Ouch. They pair off and continue the beat down. Lots of great punches and clubbing blows being thrown. Shit is snug. Why guys can't watch these tapes these days and start throwing good punches/forearms accordingly? Still a mystery. Mark Henry, Sheamus, and Taker are the only guys really throwing a decent punch these days.

Arn checks in and immediately goes to work on Windham and levels him with the DDT. Another move that's spammed to hell these days by guys who don't even have the decency to do shit properly. Arn has none of these issues, and Windham is OUT. He moves over to Steamer and lays Mr. Dragon out with the classic spine buster. Not to sound like a broken record, but damn you don't see em' like that anymore. Double Boston Crab to Ricky by Rude and Double A.

I love the feel of these early 90s WCW matches. Everything just feels so heated and looks so REAL. Goldust checks in and clears house. And holy fuck! Windham has Arns head wedged between two rings and is just jacking his body up and down trying to break his NECK. YOU FUCKING NUT :mark:

Dustin throws great punches too. Damn we have 6 guys in the ring and all are throwing some beautiful strikes. That shit matters to me. Zybysko checks in and absolutely zero fucks are given. Fucks start to be given when Dustin starts clocking the shit out of him right in the FACE. IN THE FACE I TELL YOU. Shit just got real, Medusa is climbing up the cage for fuck knows what reason, there is a god damned top on the cell you can't get in you silly cunt. But Sting climbs top too just to makes sure she doesn't look like an event dumber cunt by just standing up top.

Stinger comes in and straight presses Rude over his head and repeatedly smashing him against the top of the cell. That's some strength. I'm one of those people who think Sting, if he had Vince's marketing and power behind him from 1988 on, could have been as big as Hogan. He just has that great baby face charisma, but is twice the worker that Hogan was. Sting hadn't started to grow stale yet at this point, so the crowd is going nuts for everything he does,

Beautiful Bobby checks in, and sadly, precisely zero fucks are given by the crowd, again. However, Bobby's one of my favorite tag team wrestlers of all time, so I'll make up for it by giving all the fucks in the world. Nobody bumps for a baby face like beautiful Bobby. Good god. I must have missed something, because Dustin hit an absolute GUSHER and is bleeding all over the damn place. Damn. That's a solid .5 on the Guerrero scale (not the Muta scale, Guerrero shattered that scale at JD vs JBL so it became the Guerrero Scale. A full 1 means a person bled as much as Eddie did in that match, which I can assure you will never happen unless someone dies or blades their own jugular).

:lol at Nikita's red, yellow, and green ring gear. I guess he went from being a Soviet sympathizer to a Rastafarian sympathizer :lmao

Damn Rude just toke the top rope off one of the rings, I wonder why. Oh, so fucking Zybysko can be a dump fuck and accidentally hit Bobby in the arm. Thanks Larry. Not only are you the worst color guy ever (apologies to Matt Stryker), but you just wrecked your team mate, ya fuck. Sting takes advantage of the worked arm, clamps on the arm bar, and the match ends.



Final thoughts? Madness, pure unadulterated madness. In a fun way. Felt like a real gang war was going on inside a cage. Blows every Elimination Chamber match I've seen out of the water, even 2005 which I think is phenonmenal. So many great workers here, other than Zybysko, all guys are candidates for top 50 workers ever, and guys like Rude, Austin, and Steamboat are some of the best to lace up a pair of boots. Glad I finally saw this.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Went through the last like 11 pages of this thread since I haven't been on in a while. Thoughts on a bunch of shit:

I'm with *funnyfaces*, as much as I didn't like the Miz at the time and wanted to see the guy lose, his reign was actually pretty good. He wasn't exactly facing the TOP talent on ppv, but his Royal Rumble match against Orton is certainly watchable (it goes 20 minutes though), the Lawler matches were pretty fun, and his TV matches with Morrison and Bryan were pretty damn great. He actually brought some legitimacy back to the title as well by having a long reign after the belt flip flopped so much throughout 2010. 

Hey *Cal*, I'm pretty sure the SD match between Taker & Punk you're talking about happened in 2010 during the Taker/Kane feud. Looooong after Taker's World Title reign in '09. 

*redskins*, I hope you liked Sheamus/Kofi from Extreme Rules. I thought that was one of the best worked tables matches in recent years. Pretty fun ppv, honestly. Rey/Cody _almost _steal the show, then Christian/Del Rio and the main event happen.

Wrestlewar '91 - **** 1/4
Wrestlewar '92 - **** 1/2

Both awesome matches but I know NOTHING story wise going into them.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Does anyone know why the Judgment Day 2002 DVD is so expensive? I was browsing eBay the other day and saw it going for $100+


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

*Extreme Rules 2011​**
Orton/Punk LMS*
- Ok this is definitely seems like two different matches, the first half (first like 12 mins) are pretty good, great pacing, punk and orton both get a good amount of offense in, punk introduces the kendo stick and starts whipping orton, all is good then the match just takes a wrong turn once they go back out of the ring or little bit after this. IDK what happens but the place slows down and both guys seem like they are just thing on the fly and going through the motions. The pace slows so down and the match becomes very contrived. RKO ! off the top turnbuckle but Orton is down too can he get up ? Yes he does around the 7 count and 10! Orton wins. Their mania match is SOO much better
*** 1/2*

*lawler/ross vs. cole/swagger*
- Didn't watch had no intention too either
*DUD*
*
kofi/sheamus US championship Tables match*
- Ive never heard of this match before, and since no one pimps this ever I'm guessing its not that good. So I watched with NO exceptions at all, and it did surpass them, but not by much. Ive seen worst Kofi matches,table matches may be the DUMBEST gimmick match of them all. This entire match was both just them trying to put each other through a table and that table spot by kofi. Fella did his best in carring him though, :lmao at booker he said something along the lines of "he needs to get serious for once in his life" about kofi
****

*Layla/Mccool loser leaves wwe*
-Ok divas match yay ! layla FAP ! FAP ! vs Michelle mccool, no laycool no like each no more, Taker's chick vs. my chick :draper2 in my dreams. Yea not that bad of a divas match, watched all of this and enjoyed it. Layla looks so good, did I mention that before ? And she wins , Khama comes out and destroys a bitch
*****


*Cody/Rey FCA*
- Fun match, their mania match and april sd match are better though. Still a fun match though, I'll tell you this is such a fun series I would recommend definitely. For all the grief I deal with for Ziggler, I'm very happy on what their doing with Rhodes, Been a fan of his for a while now 
****1/2
*
*Show/kane vs. The Corre*
-fan of the big guys, not fan of the other guys, this is really short so yea
*N/A*
*
ADR/Christian Ladder WHC*
-Ok Ive seen this many of times so lets see how it holds up this time. Its a good match I just have one grip with it ITS A LADDER MATCH, this would have been so much better of it was just norm stip, as its not that bad here, but in most ladder matches I hate that you have to work around the ladder to create DEM SPOTS, which I HATE, they did so a little bit here , but the portions without the ladder are very good, as we see the aggressive Del Rio of 2013 we all love. Christian wins it ! mark-out bro "If you close your eyes and look you will truly see, you standing on top of a ladder with the WHC belt" 
**** 3/4*

*Cena/JOMO/Miz Cage for WWE champ.*
-A Triple threat steel cage match ? Wow and rtruth was suppose to be here instead of JOMO, geez Punk really saved us didnt he? AHH this is OK, the entire match is all of them trying to escape basically and I know your suppose to suspend your belief but JOMO was literally outside the cage 2x how didnt he win ? Rtruth comes he destroys JOMO, Miz and Cena battle on the top, AA on the top rope to Miz CENA WINS ! CENA WINS ! cena and miz have a pretty good match the next night soo they make up for it
***1/2*

Yea thats my review MOTN was ADR/Christian that was good followed by cody/rey


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin

Disc 1


_Steal Cage Match for the WCW Tag Team Championship_
*The Hollywood Blondes(c) vs. Shane Douglas and Ricky Steamboat*

So Douglas and Steamboat come dressed as luchadores but everyone is aware that it's them. I'm sure I must be missing something about the storyline. So this featured some brutal bumps into the cage from Austin and Pillman. What I found surprising was that the Blondes got their asses kicked for a really long time before they were able to take control of the match. No complaints about that though as the Blondes took so many great bumps into the cage that I could have watched it all day. The control segment we got was solid but once the hot tag was made this really taken to a whole new level. The crowd started dead and everyone worked really hard to get them into the match. The set is off to good start. 
****1/2* 



*Steve Austin w/Collonel Parker vs. Brian Pillman*

Fuck, Ventura is on commentary and he's muted. So this was really solid. Pillman is a great fiery babyface and he meshed pretty well with Austin. It was pretty back and forth and entertaining to watch but it wasn't anything more than that. It had it's moments but I wouldn't call this anything more than a solid TV match. 
***1/2* 



_United States Championship Match:_
*Steve Austin(c) vs. Ricky Steamboat
*
For anyone that doubts how good Austin really was in the ring this match would be a good one to submit as evidence to the contrary. Austin went hold for hold and move for move with a great wrestler. I think Austin might have got a brief control segment but for this was almost entirely back and forth between two of the best. They really didn't add much in terms of a story to the match aside from the fact that Austin was able to hang with Steamboat. There was an added stipulation that Austin would lose the title if he got DQed but that didn't come into play until the very end of the match. The one brief moment where the stipulation comes into play was really well done and made Steamboat look like the biggest babyface ever. There was also some really good heel work from Austin where he taunted Steamboat while in control of the match. After seeing this I wish they had more matches from WCW on here. 
****3/4*



_ECW Championship Match:_
*Mikey Whipwreck(c) vs. Steve Austin vs. The Sandman*

I don't like ECW very much as it is. I hate this bastardized version of it that WWE tried to pass off as ECW. The one where the crowd is muted and you can only hear a fraction of their insults directed a Sandman. Or the generic rock music tha they play over Sandman's music. So the first half of the match was total shit. Shit is really the only way I can describe a lengthy technical exchange featuring Mikey Whipwreck. Once he is mercifully eliminated this gets somewhat entertaining as we see a fun brawl between Austin and Sandman. The fun part of the brawl only lasted for a few minutes before they got into the ring. Aside from an enjoyable exchange outside the ring this sucked. 
*3/4** 



_Caribbean Strap Match:_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega
*
This was brutal. Austin pretty much summed it up in his interview before the match when he said that they just beat the hell out of each other. There wasn't much more to this than that. This was the feud ender and I believe at this point hey had been feuding for quite some time so the fact that this was just an all out war was really fitting. Austin breaking up Savio's attempts at touching all four corners were all pretty great as it looked like Savio was close to winning each time. Hard hitting and exciting. Great way to end the feud. 
****3/4* 


*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Bret "The Hitman" Hart*

Well this was pretty amazing. Aside from the great story that they told where Hart was trying get a win on his first match back but Austin was giving him more than he could handle they did so many little things that made this match great. Right from the start we see Austin try to hand with Bret on the mat. After seeing the exchanges we're left thinking that Austin is good but Bret is better. From there we see Austin using every trick up his sleeve to stay in control of the match. I loved that he used the Stun Gun on Bret to take control of the match. 

Bret working with Austin in control was fantastic. Early on there were a few exchanges were Bret tried to brawl his way out of the control segment and he wasn't able to do it.SO right from the start it was established that Austin was inferior to Bret on the mat but when fists started flying Austin was more than able to hold his own. Just an amazing job from both guys showing their strengths in the match. 

I'm going to be honest at first I was ready to say that this is the most overrated match ever. The first half was largely a very smartly worked technical exchange between the two. It was good but not the material I would say I classic is made of. I was wrong about that though as the early exchange built up the tension between the two and everything eventually erupted when they were on the outside of the ring and from that point on the match just kept getting better. 

The finishing stretch was fantastic and I think it' worth mentioning that Bret never locked in the Sharpshooter and there was only a single Stone Cold Stunner. The ending was fitting as it established Austin as a star but allowed Bret to get the win. I also can't help but think how symbolic the ending was. Austin's old tricks from when he "Stunning Steve" and the "The Ringmaster" weren't enough. Relying on what he used to be, in this case the applying the Million Dollar Dream," cost him the match. 

Overall, the match told a great story but it's the intricacies that they added to the match that really made this special. I feel like you could watch this match a few times and pick up on different things that they threw into the match. It was good to see two smart wrestlers putting together something of this caliber. I realize my rating is a little lower than what most people give it up but I can't give a match the full 5 when I didn't love every second of the match. 
*****1/2*


*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Yokozuna* 

The ropes break. Yokozuna also does a really brutal looking leg drop. Other than that there really isn't much to say. I used to think that the ropes breaking was this really cool spot. However when I watched it this time I knew the spot was coming and it looked so obvious when you saw it. Austin blatantly had to avoid running into the ropes and the ropes were so lose. Of well. Yokozuna's offense looks cool and the ropes breaking were still pretty cool (even if it just seems like a fat joke directed at Yokozuna). The entrances, Austin promo, match, and celebration combined to take about 5 and a half minutes so the low rating really doesn't mean much. I would watch this again twice before watching the ECW match again. 
*3/4**



Disc 2


_WWF Championship Match:_
*The Undertaker(c) vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin*

So this had the strange dynamic of having the Hart Foundation, heels, at ringside for the face vs. sort of face match. They played a huge factor early on as Austin jumped a distracted Undertaker before the match started and minutes later Austin jumped Owen Hart that allowed the Undertaker to send him flying into the steps. While it was interesting at first having them at ringside I feel like overall they didn't add much and served as a distraction, and not in a good way. This was the main event of the show and you shouldn't have fans not paying attention to the match to see the Hart Foundation yelling at fans or just reacting to the match. 

I feel like there must have been some type of miscommunication when planning the match at. I imagine it went somethin like this:

"Ok so I'm gonna work the leg."
"Yeah that's a good idea I'm gonna work the leg."
"No I'm going to work the leg."
"Right, I'm going to work the leg."
"Exactly so I'll work the leg out there."
"You got it."

Unfortunately this leg work was the bulk of the match and it didn't really lead to anything. There also wasn't a clear cut face so there was no type of comeback or control segment. It wasn't all bad as you had two guys slugging it out which is entertaining enough. I just wish they had slugged it out some more. When they were brawling the match was really entertaining. It was significantly less entertaining when they weren't. I know Austin and Undertaker don't have the best chemistry but I really thought they would have a match that more than "pretty good." Honestly I think my rating is fairly generous. 
***3/4* 



_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin and Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart and the British Bulldog(c)*

The beginning of the match was a blast. Shawn gets his offense in and it looks great. Everyone just went all out for the opening minutes which made the transition into the slower control segment easy because you needed to catch your breath after the great start.

Turns out that Austin is an amazing guy to be the hot tag in a tag match. He doesn't seem to really give a shit about the rules but won't quite go far enough to get DQed. There is also something great about seeing a guy flip off the referee when he doesn't see the tag. Shawn's selling, Austin being furious, and Owen and Bulldog working the control segment all combined to make a pretty amazing control segment. 

By only complaint with the match is that it ended too soon after the hot tag was made. However this was a TV match so there are obvious time limitations. Doesn't change the fact that I wish it had gone a little longer so they could have added some more suspense to the match. However what we had was a perfectly structured and immensely entertaining tag match. If Austin wasn't busy being the GOAT he could have been the GOAT tag team wrestler. 
******



*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels *

This was a fairly simple story going into the match. Both guys hated the Hart Foundation so they became champions because Owen and Bulldog had the belts. However they don't like each other at all. so you had a lot of them trying to show each other up. Shawn giving Austin the double middle fingers and Austin attempting to taunt like Shawn were really good moments in the match. It started as each guy trying to up the other in the ring but it quickly escalated into a much more intense match. 

So I have a huge problem with a spot in the match. At one point Austin went outside the ring and ripped the pads away. Except he did this on the side of the ring by the entrance way. Meaning that where he ripped off the padding he was 2 feet away from a 100 foot stretch of unprotected floor. I guess I shouldn't complain too much but it did make me think that he was doing something stupid in the ring. 

One of the main things that made his match work so well was that Austin was still in tweener mode and he was able to play a heel against someone that was a face like Michaels while being able to play the the face against heels like the Hart Foundation. So Austin got to work a heel control segment which means we got a comeback from Austin. I loved the pacing of the match as it was almost non-stop from bell to bell. 
******


_WWF Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Owen Hart and the British Bulldog vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(c) and Dude Love*

So I'm assuming that Shawn was out of commission again and Austin was supposed to find a partner. Naturally Austin comes out by himself and tried to take on Owen and Bulldog by himself. It doesn't go so well for him as he proceed to get his ass handed to him. The match cuts to a commercial and we're told that Austin's partner has arrived. He's apparently taking his time and he still isn't there when we get back to the match and things still aren't looking good for Austin. It's at this point that we see the absurd and hilarious debut of Mick Foley wrestling as Dude Love. 

The chemistry between Due and Austin was hilarious. Austin was livid that he had a partner but he tagged him in and we saw the greatness of Dude Love as he was so cool he wrestled with his sunglasses on. Austin refusing to tag back into the ring was also pretty funny. The match ended soon after it. So this wasn't anything great. I imagine it would have been better if we saw the whole match where Austin tried to work a comeback against both Owen and Bulldog but we didn't see that at all. I'm honestly not sure why this is even on here. 
**3/4*



_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Owen Hart(c) vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin*

I've seen this match before but it's hard to remember anything about this other than the piledriver that breaks Austin's neck. The match was actually going pretty well until that moment. They had a good back and forth encounter before Owen was able to take control. Owen really executed some moves amazingly well. He began targeting the neck of Austin and that led to the piledriver. That was just a terrible moment as Austin couldn't move, Owen was stunned, and Vince was silent on commentary. 

I think they would have had a really good match as they were heading in the right direction here. 
*NO RATING*



_WWF Championahip Match:_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin(c) vs. Dude Love w/Vince McMahon*

So I've seen this one quite a few times as I actually own this event on DVD (I think I paid $5 for it at Gamestop of all places and it currently sells on Amazon for $45). Thankfully the blurs don't bother me so I'm not tempted to switch discs. 

So the opening minutes really show how amazing Foley really is. I seriously don'y understand how he's still able to walk. I never really appreciated him as a kid because I didn't know how isane some of his bumps were. He takes a brutal hip toss off the sage onto the concrete floor. I'm not sure how many guys would be willing to take a bump like that. I don't know how someone could take a bump like that. Later on in the match he took a suplex on the outside and the lower half of his body landed on the steps as they were set up in the corner. I can safely say that if that happened to me I would be crying. 

Vince added something to the match as well. He was strongly hinting that there was going to be another screw job and he would are down the time keeper when Foley had Austin in a submission. He also played the role of a heel manager. Vince also deserves credit for taking a chair shot to the head. I also thought the ending was hilarious. Foley's down, the ref is down, McMahon is down so Austin just counts the 3 count himself. Hilarious. 

I wouldn't call it a great match but's pretty close to a great match. Foley's bumps along with Austin being a badass make it rally entertaining. I feel like they had a better one a little later on though. 
****1/2* 



_First Blood for the WWF Championship_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin(c) vs. Kane w/Paul Bearer *

well this wasn't all that great. Kane wears a mask and has no exposed skin. It would seem that in order to make him bleed you would have to expose some of his skin or do something like take the mask off. Austin did none of this and just beat the shit out of him instead. The Cell form earlier in the night was raised and lowered from time to time so that was interesting I guess. The match ended up being a pretty standard Attitude Era brawl but they hit each other in the head more than normal. 

Mankind somehow makes an appearance, again no idea how he did this, as does the Undertaker. The ending was very unsatisfying as well. I hate this match type and they didn't do much here to change that. 
***1/2* 


_WWF Championship Match:_
*Kane(c) w/Paul Bearer vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin*

This was a lot better. Austin didn't have to make Kane bleed and that really helped. Kane looked like a total monster as Austin just beat he hell out of him and Kane kept getting up. That was really the main story of the match, Austin trying to keep Kane down. It was really fun, the crowd was really hot, they never slowed down, and the ending was fun. I would say this is far superior to the match they had the previous night. Really fun TV match.
*****



Disc 3

_No Holds Barred for the WWF Championship:_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin(c) vs. The Rock*
_Special Referee: Shane McMahon_

Yes this was an Attitude Era brawl but it's about as good as the style can possibly be. One thing that drives me crazy with these matches is that the match will have countouts and DQs but they fight all the way up the ramp and the ref lets it go. However they don't use weapons because that would lead to to a DQ. That didn't happen here because of the stipulation. That really made the lengthy brawl outside the ring entertaining. Now I have no idea how much the plan going into the match but whole brawl felt really organic. It didn't feel or look like there were props set up. It just seemed like both guys were just using whatever they could get their hands on and used them in whatever way seemed to make sense. 

A good junk of the match was spent near the stage but they did eventually get back near the ring. There was more chaos with a table spot where Rock gave Austin the Rock Bottom through the announce table and then took a headset from the Spanish announcer and talked some shit. There was just an amazing moment when the Rock took a camera and felt the need to talk some trash. He was focusing on the crowd when he cuts back to Austin. Now Austin WAS laying down but now he's up. He gives the Rock the finger and Stunners him on the table while he's holding the camera. This incredible exchange was all shown from the Rock's perspective and the Rock screaming out, "Oh shit!" right before getting the Stunner was the icing on the cake. One of the funniest moments you'll come across in a match 

Shane was the ref but he didn't play a huge impact until the end. Mostly because they were too busy fighting to worry about winning. He got involved in some minor ways but it didn't play a big part of the match which is probably a plus because the brawl between Rock and Austin was great on it's own. When all was said and done the entrance way was trashed, the Spanish announce table was broken, the English announce table was almost broken, Shane was unconscious, and the arena was in a general state of chaos. It was a blast to watch. I was thrilled when I realized I had this match mixed up with another one where Shane was the ref so the ending actually surprised me. 

I'm not a huge fan of the style but I don't believe there is a style of match out there that can't be worked in a way to produce a great match. I have a hard time seeing a match worked in a similar way being better. This was great but there still is a part of me that just wishes they would have spent a little more time actually in the ring. 
*****1/4 *



*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Eddie Guerrero* 

It's just a shame that this match is only here because Austin's match with Benoit couldn't be on the set. This was little more than a squash. Like the only offense from Eddie was when he hit Austin with a chair and then worked the leg for maybe a minute. The rest was just an ass kicking. Not really sure what the point of this was. I will say Eddie was amusing to watch get killed.
**1/2* 


_No Disqualification:_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Triple H* 

This is how a feud is supposed to feel. A total war is the best way to describe this. One of my favorite things about watching thee two wrestle each other is that they always wrestle at an impressive pace and this was no exception. Triple H got some short periods of control but those were the exception to what was a wild and out of control fight. 

WWE totally ruined the ending of the match with their Benoit editing. Not that the ending was particularly good anyway but it was pretty silly to see Triple H laying on the ground and than we get a cut where he's sitting behind the wheel of a car. I don't think I missed much of the match but it was annoying. An enjoyable encounter regardless of the bad editing. It wasn't great but they captured the feeling of their feud.
****1/4*


_3 Stages of Hell_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Triple H *

I'm not even sure where to start with this one. I guess the first thing that comes to mind is that these were the quickest 40 minutes you'll ever see in a match. I have no idea how they were able to go for long and with such intensity (I'm sure this exact phrase has been written in a porno review as well). The pacing is just unbelievable, it might be the most impressive pacing to a match that I've ever seen. 

I guess the context to this feud is also pretty important. This was a blood feud that had been going on for months and it was all base off the fact that Triple H had Austin injured for almost a ear. So obviously they were supposed to hate each other and they certainly hated each other here. This aspect again goes back to pacing though as the hate was shown by just how determined each guy was to hurt the other. 

Each falls also felt really different from the other. The first fall was under normal rules and it was recall refreshing to see Austin stay in the ring for such a long time. I'm not sure how much I liked this fall as both guys attacked a limb but that limb work didn't really impact the fall and it was totally forgotten by the second and third falls. I won't complain too much as the message here was pretty clear. Within the context of the rules they did the best they could to hurt one another. 

The second fall was the street fight and this was just insane. Austin seemed to make it his goal to bleed as much as possible on the announce table and he was very successful at that. I remember on the video that look at the ring and the ringside area after the match and it's just trashed. There was a great table spot and more brawling from both Austin and Triple H. I loved every second and it just went along with how much they hated each other. 

The third fall was really different. Honestly it sort of felt like the match ended after the second fall because of how hard fought things had been. At this point it just looked like both guys were exhausted (and rightfully so). The match wasn't over though and while running on fumes they had to finish the match. They both threw everything they had at each other in an attempt to win and neither guy was willing to lose. The ending was perfect as each guy went for that last, desperate knockout punch and by seemingly pure chance Triple H came out on top. 

So if the rest of what I said didn't indicate this already I still love this match. Just watching two guys that this good have a brutal match for 40 minutes is entertaining enough. However they threw in a good back story and emotion into the match that made this special. No the match didn't really have much of a control segment or big comeback. In the sense of structure it almost reminds me of Undertaker/Trips at WM in that it's very different from how a match is normally worked. In both cases I still think the match is so successful because the circumstances allow the match to be worked in a non-traditional way. The feud between Triple H and Austin had been building for months and this was the culmination of two badasses that wanted to kill each other. This is exactly how the match should have been worked. This is still one of my favorite matches ever. There were a few little things that annoyed me, mostly the terrible use of the barbed wire bat, that prevent me from giving it the full 5 but it's really close to getting that. So while I still love it I guess my rating did go down for it.
*****3/4*


_No Disqualification for the WWF Championship_
*"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. The Rock(c)*

I think this match is even better when you know what's going to happen. As I'm watching this I was thinking that Austin was acting weird. Now I have no idea if this was noticeable to people that didn't know the outcome but to me they seemed to set up the heel turn perfectly. For lack of a better term he acted like a heel even before Vince came to the ring. It was just little things that he did, like lay out the Rock with the bell after he checked on the ref that he knocked down by mistake. 

I also loved the call backs to Austin's past work. It was really cool to see Austin busted open in locked in the Sharpshooter. I loved even more when Austin locked in The Million Dollar Dream. I just about totally marked out when we saw the ending the Bret/Austin match from Survivor Series but this time Austin kicked out by releasing the hold. 

Now the heel turn is what this match is really known for and it was done really well. Before Vince got involved there was a great back and forth exchange that Vince ultimately ruined by getting involved in the match. Once Vince got involved I thought the Rock played a fantastic underdog as I was honestly fooled by a few of the false finishes as I hadn't seen the match in some time. I also loved when the Rock almost won the match on a few occasions with the odds stacked against him. 

I was also a huge fan of how you had to gradually make the conclusion that Austin and McMahon were together. At first it seemed that Vince just wanted t screw the Rock. Than it seemed like Austin was more concerned with winning than with dealing with Vince. Austin then hit a low blow which seemed out of character. And finally you were forced to admit to yourself that they were working together. It was really well done. 

So this was pretty amazing. Aside from the really exciting match that they worked this told an amazing story of Austin willing to do anything to win the title. Austin and the Rock were both fantastic. I won't say the match was perfect but it's not far from it. I might have to change my statement that Austin/Rock III is their best Mania encounter.
*****3/4*​


What an amazing set. I don't think I really need to say much more than that.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

back to back reviews


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Alim said:


> Does anyone know why the Judgment Day 2002 DVD is so expensive? I was browsing eBay the other day and saw it going for $100+


I think it happened during the transition from WWE to WWF time period. I know Hogan was champion when they made the official change and he was only champ for a month. I would guess that's why.

Googled it and found this:



> WWE Judgment Day 2002: This was the first official “WWE” release on DVD after the name change. It was only available on WWEShop.com for a limited time, if you did not order it from WWE then you did not get it. The version I speak of is the USA release with a DVD release number on the spine of the case that is WWE59316. There is another release going around thats from Canada, you can tell them apart cause the Canadian release has “KOCH” on the case and disc. The USA release usually demands $80-$175 depending on the condition. I have personally seen this DVD sell for $500 still sealed!


http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/blog-a-list-of-10-rare-usa-wwe-dvds-every-collector-should-have/2541/


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> *
> kofi/sheamus US championship Tables match*
> - Ive never heard of this match before, and since no one pimps this ever I'm guessing its not that good. So I watched with NO exceptions at all, and it did surpass them, but not by much. Ive seen worst Kofi matches,table matches may be the DUMBEST gimmick match of them all. *This entire match was both just them trying to put each other through a table* and that table spot by kofi. Fella did his best in carring him though, :lmao at booker he said something along the lines of "he needs to get serious for once in his life" about kofi
> ****
> ...


That's entirely why I liked Sheamus/Kofi so much, they were ACTUALLY trying to win throughout the whole match and they kept coming up with different ways to avoid being put through a table, then BAM. It's over. Gave it *** on my last watch, good stuff.

Personally I love the main event. Definitely enjoyed everyone trying to escape from all different angles and actually thought Truth's interference was awesome, plus the finish was cool. Only thing I didn;t like was how long Morrison just layed there in the final minutes while Cena and Miz duked it out. Floats between *** 1/2 and **** for me, probably right in the middle.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

That Austin DVD is one of the better WWE releases for sure. I like that they added a good chunk of his early WWE stuff from 96-98 as I think that is his best work from both a ring and character standpoint. 



TaylorFitz said:


> I think it happened during the transition from WWE to WWF time period. I know Hogan was champion when they made the official change and he was only champ for a month. I would guess that's why.
> 
> Googled it and found this:
> 
> ...


:hmm: makes sense, thanks


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There is a really nice hidden Cesaro gem in 2012 where he essentially carries three men to a good match: Cesaro/Kingston/Truth/Barrett for the United States Title (12/3/12). Cesaro has three awesome spots done on Kofi here. The ending segment is reminiscent of the Henry/Mysterio 2006 match ending that we all love. CESARO!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Just finished watching Benoit vs Triple H ironman for the third time. Still a very good match but some of its flaws become more obvious each time. For instance, that finish made no sense. Benoit kicks out of a chair shot to the back of the head after a 10 second delay but HHH stays down for over 2 minutes after a chair shot to the head.



TaylorFitz said:


> *"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Eddie Guerrero*
> 
> It's just a shame that this match is only here because Austin's match with Benoit couldn't be on the set. This was little more than a squash. Like the only offense from Eddie was when he hit Austin with a chair and then worked the leg for maybe a minute. The rest was just an ass kicking. Not really sure what the point of this was. I will say Eddie was amusing to watch get killed.
> **1/2*


This is an interesting subject.

Obviously when WWE produces their DVDs, many times a match involving Benoit is bound to be brought up because of its quality making it "essential" but they exclude it for reasons we all know. Which brings me to this, how many times have they had a "replacement" for that match in the DVD?

Off the top of my head, I find it pretty clear that for Orton's DVD, putting in the Smackdown match with Christian was compensation for the lack of SummerSlam 2004 and in HHH's recent DVD, the Backlash 2001 tag was put in place of the Benoit/Jericho tag.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Eh, the Backlash 2001 tag is just as fun as the Benoit/Jericho match, in my opinion. I could have done without the Booker T match from Summerslam 2007, as well as the Jericho match from 2009.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Melendez/Sanchez: *****3/4*
JDS/Cain III: ****3/4*

What was the point of including that Jericho/HHH 2009 match on the DVD?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Some are kind of apathetic to the 94 one IIRC, but I can't help but think that they're just bothered by lack of blood. Well they're wrong and it's fucking great. Looked up my WCW list again and I had it at #32.
> 
> 
> I know people who have preferred 91 to 92, but I've never been one of them. In fact the first few watches I didn't really LOVE love the 91 one either. I was wrong, obv. Put that at #17. Wish I hadn't put it above Vader/Dustin. I put Vader/Dustin too fucking low, I think. Goddamn 2010 me, I swear. Dickhead.


Post your list for me plz.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Keep in mind I may agree with practically none of it. I'm sure like 90 of the matches still would make my list, but the order....I kind of wonder what I was thinking, even with matches I haven't re-watched since then. Top 12 or so I think are pretty well-placed, though.



Spoiler: j



1. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions 4/2/89)
2. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Landover House Show 3/18/89)
3. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (WrestleWar 5/7/89)
4. Eddie Guerrero v Rey Mysterio Jr. (Halloween Havoc 10/26/97)
5. Rick Rude v Ricky Steamboat (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
6. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Clash of the Champions 11/15/89)
7. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Chi-Town Rumble 2/20/89)
8. Big Van Vader v Sting (SuperBrawl 2/21/93)
9. Rick Rude/Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Steve Austin v Sting/Ricky Steamboat/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (WrestleWar 5/17/92)
10. Fit Finlay v Steven Regal (Uncensored 3/24/96)
11. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko v Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes/Nikita Koloff (Saturday Night 5/23/92)
12. Sting v Big Van Vader (Great American Bash 7/12/92)
13. Big Van Vader v Ric Flair (Starrcade 12/27/93)
14. Ric Flair v Lex Luger (Starrcade 12/26/88)
15. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Clash of the Champions 6/16/92)
16. Arn Anderson/Larry Zbyszko v Ricky Steamboat/Dustin Rhodes (Clash of the Champions 11/19/91)
17. Ric Flair/Barry Windham/Larry Zbyszko/Sid Vicious v Sting/Brian Pillman/The Steiner Brothers (Wrestlewar 2/24/91)
18. Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas v Barry Windham/Brian Pillman (Starrcade 12/28/92)
19. Ric Flair v Terry Funk (Great American Bash 7/23/89)
20. The Midnight Express v The Rock 'n' Roll Express (WrestleWar 2/25/90)
21. Big Van Vader v Dustin Rhodes (Clash of the Champions 11/16/94)
22. Big Van Vader v Sting (Starrcade 12/28/92)
23. Ric Flair v Lex Luger (WrestleWar 2/25/90)
24. Eddie Guerrero v Chris Jericho (Fall Brawl 9/14/97)
25. The Steiner Brothers v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
26. Ricky Steamboat v Ric Flair (Philadelphia House Show 3/18/89)
27. Arn Anderson v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night 1/4/92)
28. Dustin Rhodes v Bunkhouse Buck (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
29. The Midnight Express v The Southern Boys (Great American Bash 7/7/90)
30. Big Van Vader v Sting (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
31. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v Steve Williams/Terry Gordy (Saturday Night 10/3/92)
32. Dustin Rhodes/Dusty Rhodes/The Nasty Boys Sags v Bunkhouse Buck/Terry Funk/Arn Anderson/Col. Robert Parker (Fall Brawl 9/18/94)
33. Brian Pillman v Jushin Liger (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
34. Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes v Steve Austin/Larry Zbyszko (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
35. Arn Anderson v Barry Windham (Saturday Night 6/6/92)
36. Arn Anderson v Big Josh (Saturday Night 5/2/92)
37. Sting v Cactus Jack (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
38. Steven Regal v Larry Zbyszko (Saturday Night 5/28/94)
39. The Hollywood Blondes v 2 Cold Scorpio/Marcus Bagwell (Worldwide 5/8/93)
40. Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Rick Rude v Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 2/22/92)
41. Cactus Jack/Maxx Payne v The Nasty Boys (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
42. Ricky Steamboat v Terry Funk (Clash of the Champions 6/14/89)
43. Chris Benoit v Fit Finlay (Slamboree 5/17/98)
44. Ric Flair/Sting v The Great Muta/Dick Slater (Clash of the Champions 9/12/89)
45. Cactus Jack/Kevin Sullivan v The Nasty Boys (Slamboree 5/22/94)
46. Ric Flair v Brian Pillman (World Championship Wrestling 2/17/90)
47. Big Van Vader v Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 10/16/93)
48. Rey Mysterio Jr. v Psychosis (Bash at the Beach 7/7/96)
49. Rick Rude v Dustin Rhodes (Worldwide 5/30/92)
50. Big Van Vader v Sting (Slamboree 5/22/94)
51. Randy Savage v Diamond Dallas Page (Great American Bash 6/15/97)
52. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Saturday Night 5/14/94)
53. Dean Malenko v Ultimo Dragon (Starrcade 12/29/96)
54. Bill Goldberg v Diamond Dallas Page (Halloween Havoc 10/25/98)
55. Chris Benoit v Diamond Dallas Page (SuperBrawl 2/22/98)
56. Chris Benoit v 2 Cold Scorpio (SuperBrawl 2/21/93)
57. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v Eddie Gilbert/Lex Luger (Main Event 3/25/89)
58. Ric Flair v Ricky Steamboat (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
59. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v The Midnight Express (Clash of the Champions 12/7/88)
60. Hulk Hogan v Ric Flair (Halloween Havoc 10/23/94) 
61. Diamond Dallas Page v Sting (Nitro 4/26/99)
62. Dustin Rhodes v Bunkhouse Buck (Slamboree 5/22/94)
63. Big Van Vader/Steve Austin v Ric Flair/Arn Anderson (Saturday Night 11/13/93)
64. Ricky Steamboat v Steve Austin (Clash of Champions 8/28/94)
65. Arn Anderson/Rick Rude/Steve Austin v Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (Pro 4/4/92)
66. Arn Anderson v Ricky Steamboat (Pro 3/28/92)
67. Ultimo Dragon v Steven Regal (Slamboree 5/18/97)
68. Sting v Steven Regal (Great American Bash 6/16/96)
69. Steven Regal v Psychosis (Nitro 12/16/96)
70. Big Van Vader v Cactus Jack (Halloween Havoc 10/24/93)
71. Steve Austin v Ricky Steamboat (Clash of the Champions 9/2/92)
72. Sting v Cactus Jack (Power Hour 11/23/91)
73. Ric Flair v Brian Pillman (World Championship Wrestling 4/13/91)
74. Steve Austin v Ricky Steamboat (Bash at the Beach 7/17/94)
75. Ric Flair/Barry Windham v Ricky Steamboat/Eddie Gilbert (World Championship Wrestling 1/21/89)
76. Jake Roberts v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night 9/26/92)
77. Rick Rude v Ricky Steamboat (SuperBrawl 2/29/92)
78. Ric Flair v Hulk Hogan (Bash at the Beach 7/17/94)
79. Brian Pillman v Johnny B. Badd (Fall Brawl 9/17/95)
80. Big Van Vader v Ricky Steamboat (Worldwide 4/25/93)
81. Chris Benoit v Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 10/16/95)
82. Ricky Steamboat v Steven Regal (Saturday Night 9/25/93)
83. Arn Anderson v The Great Muta (Power Hour 1/12/90)
84. Ricky Steamboat v Steven Regal (Fall Brawl 9/19/93)
85. Arn Anderson/Barry Windham v Doom (Starrcade 12/16/90)
86. Ric Flair v Arn Anderson (Fall Brawl 9/17/95)
87. Big Van Vader v Ron Simmons (Saturday Night 8/8/92)
88. Barry Windham v 2 Cold Scorpio (Clash of the Champions 6/16/93)
89. Eddie Guerrero v Dean Malenko (Inglewood House Show 6/28/97)
90. Big Van Vader v Dustin Rhodes (Saturday Night 11/21/92)
91. Brian Pillman v Scotty Flamingo (Beach Blast 6/20/92)
92. Steve Austin v Dustin Rhodes (Halloween Havoc 10/27/91)
93. Ricky Steamboat/Shane Douglas v Steve Austin/Brian Pillman (Clash of the Champions 1/13/93)
94. Steven Regal v Arn Anderson (SuperBrawl 2/20/94)
95. The Steiner Brothers v The Nasty Boys (Halloween Havoc 10/27/90)
96. Arn Anderson/ Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko v Dustin Rhodes/Barry Windham/Ron Simmons (Clash of the Champions 1/21/92)
97. Big Van Vader v The Boss (Spring Stampede 4/17/94)
98. Big Van Vader v Davey Boy Smith (Clash of the Champions 8/18/93)
99. Chris Benoit v Kevin Sullivan (Great American Bash 6/16/96)
100. Sting v Chris Benoit (Nitro 9/20/99)




Vader v. Boss at NINETY SEVEN!? Nasty Boys v. Steiners at NINETY FIVE!? (Cody don't hate me for that one IDK WHAT I WAS THINKING). I thought I had Windham/Scorpio at east top 60. Stuff like Regal/Zbyszko, Dustin/Vader, Dustin/Arn, FlairSting/MutaSlater I placed fairly high but wish were even higher.


EDIT - also on the Slamboree cage match (re: the Austin DVD), I think they wore masks to cover up the fact that the guy wrestling with Steamboat wasn't even Shane Douglas. Might be a rumour or some bullshit I just heard, I can't be sure.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

JeriGOAT at his best. :clap I loved this feud.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What was the point of including that Jericho/HHH 2009 match on the DVD?


Idk. On a whole the match listing is garbage.

I feel like watching wrestling but not sure what to watch. Suggestions?


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Is there a way to get rid of those annoying side bars on WWE DVDs?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Alim said:


> Is there a way to get rid of those annoying side bars on WWE DVDs?


In your DVD player setting, choose 'Pan Scan', think its in the display settings.

Should go full screen.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Bryan vs. Sheamus Raw 30/7/12 (Street Fight) - ***3/4*

I might be coming in a little high on this but whatever. I loved it and these guys just beat the hell out of each other when they're in there together. STIFF is one word that springs to mind. They have a lot of content in this thing but also make it a ton of fun to watch. Great match and definitely one that has flown under the radar iirc. Check it out.

*Team Hell No vs. Reigns/Rollins Extreme Rules 2013 (Tornado Tag) - ****

Not a lot to say with this one unfortunately. They didn't get a lot of time but they managed to pull together a decent effort with the time they did have. Tornado style match allowed Bryan to go crazy without restriction. Similarly the Shield boys were allowed to do the same. There's an awesome nearfall that Bryan breaks up towards the finishing stretch. I thought it was over but not before Rollins hits the :mark: worthy knee while Reigns holding Bryan upside down. 

*Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield, TLC - ****3/4*

So yes. This has officially become one of my favourite matches ever. Is it a 5* match? No, but is it pretty damn close? Absolutely. It gets better every time you watch it. Flat out CHAOS from start to finish. After bumping this up it's safe to say that 2012 kind of smokes 2013 when it comes to PPV matches as far as I'm concerned. It isn't even a discussion tbh. Fantastic match and right up there with the almost elite matches in my book. Makes me :mark: every damn time. Every guy brought something to the table and it truly felt like a breakout performance for all involved, even Ryback even though he hasn't exactly matched the heights of the other guys since then.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I never really do match ratings/reviews because I don't do the 4 star/5 star stuff because I prefer 0 out of 10, plus I suck at expressing my love for matches because all I do is ramble out the ass and don't really make too much sense and I don't sound as intelligent as y'all lol but because I LOVE this match and it never gets old, I will:

*The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels (WrestleMania 25) - 10/10*

10/10, 5 stars, whatever you rate it, it doesn't do this match justice. It's so timeless and I never get tired of it whenever I watch it. I wish I was watching wrestling when this match took place. This match is definitely better than their 2nd match at WM 26, not that the 2nd one was bad. So many favorite spots in the match, the part when Shawn went for a moonsault to the outside and completely missed it looked nasty, same for the spot where Taker went for that dive and hit the camera-man. Oh & the false-finishes were awesome. Cena/Rock should've took notes on when it was necessary to do those spots. Oh and I love the ending. :mark: DAT counter of the moonsault into a tombstone was beast. Just an all-around amazing match, definitely Taker's best match at WrestleMania. Not to discredit Punk/Taker or HHH/Taker from WM 28 or any of the other great ones, but nothing will top this one. And honestly, did anyone expect anything less with these two?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey *Cal*, I'm pretty sure the SD match between Taker & Punk you're talking about happened in 2010 during the Taker/Kane feud. Looooong after Taker's World Title reign in '09.


Nope . They had a match in 09 AND '10 .



Spoiler: don't doubt my dead man knowledge



CM PUnk Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 10/23/2009

Teddy Long and Scott Armstrong are out for this match with Punk. Teddy at ringside and Armstrong as the referee, with Punk basically saying he's gonna screw Undertaker again and regain his title. Submission match too!

I remember this match being the best of their 09 series, so I can't wait to see it again!

Oh yeah, anyone remember the theme song for SD during this time? Loved it. Way, way better than the shite they have now.

Punk looks fucking GIDDY on the outside because he has his plan. Undertaker while handing over the title to Armstrong gives the ref a look that would kill him and his entire family. Little things. Gotta love em.

Oh man, the exchange early on where Punk almost locks in the Vice and UNDERTAKER looks desperate to escape then backs away while looking at the ref is like, fucking AWESOME. Wonderful storytelling from such a simple exchange :mark:.

Shhhiiiiiit, that bump from Undertaker where he gets his leg caught up in the ropes? DAMN. Undertaker wasn't 100% during his 09 title run, but fuck, aside from his matches not being too long, you really couldn't tell. He still bumps like a motherfucker, and you just HAVE to respect him for that. He might not be 100% but dammit he gives 100%.

Punk being just as desperate while escaping from Hells Gate as Undertaker was earlier is a neat little callback from the beginning of the match .

Punk gets control of the match again, and gets Teddy Long and Armstrong to give him a chair so he can hopefully finish the match and get his title back. Except Undertaker blocks the chair shot and takes out the ref with a chokeslam!!! Teddy runs away as Punk locks in the Anaconda Vice, signaling to Teddy to ring the bell. Teddy calls out another referee because apparently he can't end a match, and the new referee isn't biased! Undertaker counters into Hells Gate, and the Dead Man retains!

Yeah, this is great, and definitely their best 09 match together, yet still behind their 2010 match which is pretty fucking AWESOME. Well worth a watch for sure, bitches!

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

SLIM SHADY LP™ said:


> Indeed it is. That whole episode of Smackdown is all kinds of fun. The Triple Threat match between Rey Mysterio, Jamie Noble, and Tajiri mark, a solid match between the Los Guerreros and Palumbo & Stamboli, a great tag match between TWGTT and Benoit & Rhyno, and Brock Lesnar F-5ing Paul Heyman inside a Steel Cage. Heyman's determination to get out of the Steel Cage match all throughout the episode never gets old. I also seem to recall Matt Hardy and Billy Kidman being a fun little match.
> 
> By the way, what did you think of the tag match between TWGTT and the Los Guerreros for the WWE tag team titles from 2/6/03? It's easily the best tag match between the two.


*WWE Tag Team Championships: Los Guerrero’s vs. Team Angle (w/ Paul Heyman)*
Benjamin and Chavo start the match; they do some paced mat wrestling with reversals, until Chavo tags in Eddie. He locks up with Benjamin, and Eddie tries his luck on the mat until Eddie decides this isn’t working so he hits a snap mare and another short pin count. Benjamin tags in Haas. And they do some slick reversals before quickening the pace of mat wrestling, Eddie tags in Chavo. Chavo begins to work over Haas until he yet again tags in Eddie. Eddie with a heilo over the top rope onto Haas. Charlie recovers and quickly tags in Benjamin. Eddie tags in Chavo, who takes a quick advantage over Benjamin. JESUS! Chavo distracts the referee while Eddie chokes Shelton in the corner. Chavo lands a strong uppercut before tagging in Eddie; he goes to work on Benjamin. But now Eddie distracts the referee while Chavo chokes Benjamin. Referee now becomes distracted by Haas, allowing the Guerrero’s to do some double team work. They stay in full control, tagging in and out working over Benjamin. But Shelton would hit a desperation back suplex on Eddie before managing to tag in Haas. All four are in the ring and chaos ensues. Benjamin bumps the ref, who knocks Chavo to the outside and into the announce table, as we go to a commercial. Team Angle are now in control, as they hit the leapfrog double team splash on Chavo, which gets a two count. They go for it again, but Eddie trips Shelton, allowing Chavo to recover. Team Angle quickly regains control, until Chavo counters a double back-body drop with double DDT! AWESOME! Hot tag to Eddie who goes to work on both members, Eddie clotheslines Benjamin to the outside, and hits a big back-body drop on Haas followed by a series of suplexes, Haas kicks out at two. Chavo has fully recovered and Eddie hits a superplex, Chavo hits a Frog Splash and Eddie covers but only manages a two count. Chavo goes upstairs with Haas, hits a tornado DDT. Eddie is on top of the other rope, but Benjamin shoves him off. All four men end up on the outside. Haas and Eddie end up inside the ring, where Chavo is distracted with the referee as Benjamin sneaks in the ring and Team Angle double team Eddie. Chavo is thrown over the top rope, and both Haas and Shelton work on Eddie until Chavo and Eddie both hit reversals! Frog splash by Eddie but Heyman grabs Eddie’s leg. Chavo splashes onto Heyman. Eddie goes for the cover but Benjamin is NOT THE LEGAL MAN! Charlie Haas comes in out of nowhere, lands a schoolboy pin for the win. The first half was slow and had a good build, but the finishing stretch made up for it and more. ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> I've seen '91 over '92 way more, so I'm basically on the side of preferring '91 atm. It's been a little bit since I last saw the Dangerous Alliance vs Sting's Squadron goodness. Wished I had it on DVD. Think that's my cue to purchase the War Games set.


*Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting’s Squadron (Wargames 1992)* 

(Wrestlewar 5/17/92)

PPV Version - Includes Jesse Ventura's full commentary 

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nwa-w...-s-squadron-wargames-1992-a.html#post25319281


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WGTT/Guerreros at Backlash '03 is pretty damn dope.

I feel like off-topicking for some weird reason 

If I may, Batman Arkham Asylum is a well deserved ****1/4 masterpiece. City was better, but still. Even the Nolan films weren't THIS good at doing the most realistic representation of Batman and his universe possible. And those who say the Scarecrow levels suck, they don't.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

zep81 said:


> *Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting’s Squadron (Wargames 1992)*
> 
> (Wrestlewar 5/17/92)
> 
> ...


You are a god amongst men.

:mark:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

@ PM - I type fast. :flip And yeah, I did notice the overture. (Y) Though not sure how obvious it may be.


Great review of the entire set, TaylorFitz. I plan on going back and checking out and/or re-watching some of Austin's stuff, so the entire review was helpful.

About the Survivor Series '96 match:


TaylorFitz said:


> The Legacy of Stone Cold Steve Austin
> 
> Disc 1
> 
> ...


That's one of the best write ups about it I've ever seen. Especially the bolded parts. I'm glad you picked up on the level of planning. Austin actually came up to Bret's house in Calgary the week before the match, and they mapped the whole thing out there, and put work into it. So obviously both men took it very seriously, and put a lot into it. It definitely shows in the result.

Also, your rating for WM17 is the same as mine. 



Jack Evans 187, thanks for answering my Rock/Austin Backlash question. I watched it, and it was fun for that style of match. Mainly toward the end. I'd still put it below their Wrestlemania matches, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Nope . They had a match in 09 AND '10 .


Well SON OF A BITCH.  My apologies go out. You actually liked that match though? I watched it on the SD Best of '09/10 set and thought it was just overbooked averageness. Think I gave it like ** 1/2. Their 2010 match was muuuuuch better.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I like all of their 09 matches more than everyone else lol .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn my review kinda went unnoticed damn you taylorfritz :ziggler1

not that much wrestling on the schedule for me today

Ive never seen a Wargames either


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Sorry about that. I honestly don't remember much about the show. I watched it live and thought it was fun. 

I will agree with you that a table match is probably the dumbest stipulation possible for a match. Or at least for singles matches. 

Tag matches can be pretty awesome. I mean the first tables match Hardys/Dudleys was awesome and I'm a huge fan if the tables match from Survivor Series 2002. I've just never seen a singles Table Match that I didn't hate.



Choke2Death said:


> Just finished watching Benoit vs Triple H ironman for the third time. Still a very good match but some of its flaws become more obvious each time. For instance, that finish made no sense. Benoit kicks out of a chair shot to the back of the head after a 10 second delay but HHH stays down for over 2 minutes after a chair shot to the head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think Rock's DVD has a Rock/Eddie match on there that doesn't really belong and I'm pretty sure there was a Rock/Benoit match that would have been more fitting on the DVD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

redskins25 said:


> Damn my review kinda went unnoticed damn you taylorfritz :ziggler1
> 
> not that much wrestling on the schedule for me today
> 
> Ive never seen a Wargames either


Well fucking DL 1992 then


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

zep81 said:


> *Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting’s Squadron (Wargames 1992)*
> 
> (Wrestlewar 5/17/92)
> 
> ...


:mark:

Fits the jazziness I'm having (more than usual) with WCW stuff. Finished Spring Stampede '94 atm and now I gots to hop on this.

Moops, the list had some surprises I'll say. Well, number one doesn't surprise me, but in a way it kind of does. I to hold the COTC match in that high of regard, but I half expected - or 3/4 expected even (!) - you to have something Mysterio or Rhodes-esque nab the top spot. Goes back to how you're kind of like myself where we dig Flair, know he's like the best, but always giving due more to someone else we happen to prefer. At least, I think that's you. Believe it is. Regal vs Ultimo from Slamboree making the list = 

Back onto Spring Stampede '94 - I really should write a review on both the Street Fight & Bunkhouse Brawl. I'm nearly inspired to do so on how much I love watching them. I'll probably do one on Vader vs Boss too if this actually happens. _(Regal vs Pillman could go down too...ahh this might not happen but whatever. FUN)_


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What's scary is that the already incredible Spring Stampede 94 could have been even better if Rude/Sting and Austin/Muta didn't disappoint. Every match on that card was a potential high-end match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Muta vs Austin was fun for me at least. I know that's a lone opinion & I'm not calling it "good", but the basic work throughout the bulk was fine enough and I'm kind of just enamored with the idea that Muta vs Austin actually happened. Plus, those fans go insane for whenever Muta kicks up the offense in the end.

Sting vs Rude is really bad. Manages to mean nothing b/c the end result is memorable & the rest is too good to be hindered by one disappointment.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

being downloaded now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:mark:

You should find Beach Blast '92 too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

shit something went wrong in the download and I have to wait 21 minutes


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> :mark:
> 
> You should find Beach Blast '92 too.







Ahh 1992. :homer


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No reason for anyone to bother watching BB 92 tbh. I mean, the fuck is on that show? Some crappy, dull 30 minute match between Ricky "the overrated" Steamboat and Rick "was I ever talented" Rude? Urgh, no thanks.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*RJSBX1 Hate-Watch Series: Halloween Havoc 1995*









I finally got around to hate-watching this after I kind of moved further and further down my “Watch Later” list. The opening package is god awful :lmao. 
“The Giant has a jones for destruction” The hell does that even mean, mystery voice announcer? Basically it’s hyping up Giant vs. Hogan and Giant vs. Hogan- SUMO MONSTER TRUCK. Waaaaaait…I think I’ve ever heard about this…
Drinking Game: Drink everytime Schiavone makes a ridiculous hyperbole. Also, FLAIR’S BEEN ATTACKED BY FLYIN’ BRIAN. 

*WCW Television Championship: Johnny B. Badd vs. DDP ©*
So backstory is Johnny B. Badd is supposed to fight Sting to get an opportunity at the US title…but DDP and this doof Maxx Muscle (seriously?) put flats in his car for….no reason really he doesn’t explain why :confused
KIMBERELY PAGE :mark: …and that Maxx Muscle scrub are in Page’s corner—keep that in mind.

So Little Richard 2.0 gets A TITLE SHOT anyway! A fake Johnny B. Badd comes out but the real one comes through the crowd to jump DDP from behind. Tony says this started with a bang. Which is either brilliant foreshadowing or more hyperbolic talk. 

SO Badd does A LOT of armwork. Like 5-10 minutes of straight ARM WORK. :lmao at one point the ref asks Badd if he’s pulling Page’s hair and Badd just yanks on it and says “YOU MEAN LIKE THIS”. I laughed. :lmao

DDP’s theatrics are priceless. TS: “DDP likes to have control in his matches”. Well, shit. I thought he loved getting beat down. While DDP applies a chinlock on Badd…Maxx for some reason is hitting the mat while the audience is cheering for Badd. That’s pretty stupid, dude.

Remember that armwork that took like 5-10 minutes from Badd…well it gets completely ignored by both Badd and Page. Badd makes like 3-4 false finishes and shit…this match is kind of dragging. Schivaone is channeling his inner Lawler by perving on Kim the whole match. 

The finish is pretty darn stupid. You see, DDP holds Badd up for Maxx Muscle to hit Badd…but Maxx with the SLOWEST punch…misses and nails DDP (which isn’t a DQ.), and channels his inner Ziggler and oversells a ridiculously weak punch and Badd wins.

***- If they cut off like 10 minutes, it’d be a pretty good opener but too many restholds and the finish is stupid, and Maxx Muscle is stupid.*

Drink everytime Heenan says “ruf”, and Schiavone is still using too many superlatives for this sumo monster truck match.
*
Zodiac vs. Macho Man Randy Savage.*

Zodiac is Brutus Beefcake, Brutus Beefcake has like 5000 gimmicks and they all sucked (even the Barber.) This is this one where he looks like a got smashed in the face with a Zebra Cake. 
TS: “this fits to have this man (Zodiac) walk down at this time.” NO. There’s never an appropriate time for Beefcake. Apparently, Luger and Savage have to win their matches earlier in the night to get a match with each other tonight. :mark: for more Savage…fuck Luger though.

If just one of them wins then…nothing happens I guess. I don’t know TS doesn’t elaborate. MACHO gets DAT POP. The rock version for Pomp and Circumstance is quality. Shit. His elbow is HEAVILY taped up.
So match starts and 20 second in a fan jumps the rail and gets taken out by the ref :lmao :lmao

Schivone says that Kamala was initially supposed to take Beefcake’s spot…well then thank god for Beefcake then. Could you imagine if it was Kamala instead? :lmao. Savage pins Zodiac/Beefcake in like a minute. Elbow Drop. Game. Set. Match.

*½*- A straight up squash, but anything involving Savage gets a little bump in the ratings for me. The fan got more offense in than Zodiac*

Johnny B. Badd is being interviewed by Mean Gene and Badd is trying to cut an inspirational promo but with that voice and random yelling I’m more petrified than inspired. 

*Kurasawa w/Col. Robert Parker vs. Road Warrior Hawk*

Schiavone says this is a revenge match. Did Kurasawa steal Hawk’s 6-pack? Too soon? NO. Instead, Kurasawa broked-ed Hawk’s arm on Clash of Champions. 

Question? Who the hell thought this was a good idea? Hawks as singles wrestler and some random dude with Colonel Parker :lmao. Hawk’s got a good pop and he dominated the match. STIFF SHOTS. Okay, I’m liking this so far. Kurasawa gains control for like…2 seconds before Hawk’s back to beating him down. 

Heenan points out that Kurasawa should try to target the previously broken arm to which TS replies “Well it’s probably 100% now, so it would'nt have any effect” Tony Schivaone, Web MD expert. 

On the outside now, Hawk nails Parker by accident…Kurasawa throws Hawk into a ring post, hits two Samoan Drops and…THAT’S IT? 

*DUD. The fuck was that? :lmao :lmao That match made NO sense. Hawk looked like he was beating up a jobber and he loses? :lmao. What about his revenge? IT MAKES NO SENSE. *

Savage GOAT-ing it up in a interview with Mean Gene. Savage wants to talk about Luger… but Mean Gene can’t pry his lips from Hogan’s ass log enough… so of course we gotta talk about Hogan, brother.

*Mr. JL vs. Sabu w/ Original Sheik*

JL is Jerry Lynn under a mask. Sabu is just plain ol’ Sabu with original Shiek who’s a madman himself... SPOTS SPOTS SPOTS. There's no semblance of a story, psychology, selling, flow, anything.

So in 1995, they did some spots here that would be considered insane. Too bad they botched most of them. But hey, it’s still kind of interesting. Sabu wins it with his double jump moonsault and Sheik throws a fireball at Lynn and hits him in the mask. That's just a guess because they didn't actually show it happening :lmao. 

**3/4- Honestly, they at least tried to make it interesting and the spots they attempted were pretty cool considering the time period… but it was just sloppy and the match was purposeless.*

MORE Hogan talk. Go to the Master’s Lair to hear from him and Taskmaster. Yep. Dungeon of DOOOOOOOM time. For a dark creepy lair, they are still able to have a camera and electricity in there. :lmao

Taskmaster= Kevin Sullivan, aka Woman’s ex-husband aka the husband Nancy Benoit probably should’ve stayed with. But hindsight is 20/20. 

WAIT. THE LAIR IS IN THE ARENA :lmao :lmao. So why doesn’t Hogan just take them out now?! It's only Kevin Sullivan and some old fat guy. Oh yeah…he’s in a fucking sumo monster car.

THE YETI :lmao :lmao :lmao. Okay. I think I know where this is going. Fans are booing the hell out of this by the way. :lmao Tony Schiavone keeps pronouncing Yeti like YEH-TEH like it’s French. Say what you want about Cole, but Schiavone was fucking annoying.

*Lex Luger vs. Meng.*

:lmao as Meng makes his entrance with Taskmaster…a fan throws a piece garbage that nails Sullivan right in the face. Luger comes out and IS HE APART OF THE DUNGEON OF DOOM?! Who knows? Who cares?

During Luger’s entrance we get a HILARIOUS sight joke that if you know your promotional history is great. There’s a graveyard site set due to it being Halloween and one of the graves says Crockett. :lmao Get it?

:lmao Meng busts out a small package because he wants to utilize his catch-as-can style early in this match. “Lex Luger’s no dummy.” Yeah okay, Tony.

I love Meng. I really do. I never understand why he never got farther. I mean he could’ve been a dominant heel main eventer/champion…shame he never got as far as he should have Meng takes control for half the match with some slow and plodding offense. :lmao Luger’s selling “OWWW OHHH OWWW.” 

They pan to the crowd who is sitting on their asses. Don’t blame them one bit. Stay alive, Detroit. This match is pretty damn dull…Meng goes for his Golden Spike and hits Luger…but Sullivan kicks Luger during the pinfall so DQ victory for Luger. By kick, I mean…it’s the weakest kick you’ll ever see. :lmao

During the match, they show Heenan eating with Sonny Oonoo which I forget if that’s important or not. I didn’t watch a whole lot of WCW when I was a kid. 
It makes sense…I guess for the storyline but whatever.

* ¼ *- That was awful, discounting the finish. It was plodding, dull and just plain uninteresting. *

*Arn Anderson and Flyin’ Brian vs. Sting and Ric Flair *

CONTEXT: At Fall Brawl, Anderson and Flair had been fighting. Pillman gave Anderson the win by kicking Flair in the head. Sting is now helping Naitch BUT remember Flair got jumped before the show so it’s a handicap match to start. 
Sting actually does pretty decent without a partner until Arn and Brian play the numbers game. FLAIR IS HERE. In his best Dockers and a bandage on his head.

Pillman: “GET THAT CAMERA OUTTA MY FACE!” :lmao :lmao. God bless that man. FANS WANT FLAIR. Cool spot where Sting throws Pillman off the top rope onto the barricade, Pillman sells it really well.

Okay this match has some awesome moments: Between Flair being a wily ol’ bastard trying to come into the ring without a tag or Arn and Pillman using whatever dirty tactics to take out Sting. I love it. 
One thing though: Flair never actually gets a shot in on either guy. That doesn’t mean anything….does it? We'll find out. :hmm:

:lmao :lmao Sting as a FIP in this match is some funny shit. “NATOOORE BOY. NATUREEE BOY”. 

Sting tags Flair. CROWD GOES NUTS and Flair decks Sting :lmao. That’s beautiful. Flair isn’t actually hurt and the Four (or Three) Horseman are re-united. Sting snaps but gets his ass whooped.
Flair cuts an awesome promo afterwards.

***3/4- It’s essentially all angle, but it’s some awesome Horseman shit and they actually told a story that made sense and watching Flair GOAT antics made this enjoyable to watch.*

Recap of Hogan vs. Dungeon because THE SUMO MONSTER TRUCK MATCH IS UP. We come back and Bischoff is here on commentary…because I guess Schiavone taking a leak or something. Along with Bischoff is the guy who made the trucks….and :lmao he’s literally some old man who doesn’t know what WCW or wrestling is.

*TO THE “RUF”: * 

The RULES: You have to get both sets of axels out of the ring, which is 100 FT. in diameter THEN we’re going to weld the trucks together. Pay no attention to the fact that they were welded together in the segment before.

:lmao :lmao In this ring, we have two charges that will go off if you run over them. YES there will be bombs that will go off if your run over them. The fuck is this? MarioKart ?! :lmao I would be lying if I told you…what the fuck was happening. Cause, Bischoff doesn’t either. :lmao

After some major stupidity with the trucks, Giant gets out the truck and HE MAD. He fights Hogan near the edge of Cobo Hall roof AND OH SHIT I REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENS. :lmao :lmao. Hogan accidentally knocks Giant off the “ruf” and Giant takes FOREVER to fall. :lmao :lmao :lmao HOGANS ACTING. The monster truck dude is literally about to crack up. This is some high-level fuckery.

Hogan winner via homicide. RIP Giant. We hardly knew ye. :bh:

*Lex Luger vs. Randy Savage*

Hopefully, Luger and Savage can cheer me up after witnessing a tragic on-air death. OKAY. Schivaone says one of WCW’s selling points is that anything can happen…even murder. :lmao :lmao. WCW IS MURDER. So. Tony talks about the match for a minute before him and Heenan discusses the Giant’s on-air death. THE SHOW MUST GO ON.

Wait why is Jimmy Hart dressed for a funeral :troll.

*-DUD I honestly forgot what happened. I was distracted by the idiots talking about this awful angle. Then again, the action in the ring wasn't exactly interesting. Savage won…I think.*

*WCW Championship: Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant (R.I.P)*

Hogan’s out first because you know he’s alive…out with Jimmy Hart and they are dressed for a funeral, brother. He calls it a “terrible accident, brother.” :cool2 

WAIT. ITS GIANT. He’s risen indeed. He’s alive! He’s alive. :lmao They cut to Hogan’s who face looks like he’s been caught banging his friends wife on camera. :lmao :lmao Giant fell off a roof no less than 20 minutes ago and he's not even limping. :lmao :clap SO. We’ve got a match! Apparently, Giant is Andre’s son. Basically, this is like Andre vs. Hogan II…only no one cares. Hogan has horns like the Taskmaster cause this is Dark Side Hogan.

TEST OF STRENGTH and Giant has brought Hogan to his knees…but you can obviously see there's NO TORQUE or STRUGGLE from either man.

Hogan comeback time…but Giant bails BUT Hogan’s like “NOPE, BROTHER.” There’s one really cool thing about this match, Giant’s backbreaker to Hogan is pretty sweet. HOGAN GETS HEIGHT. 

So. Schiavone is trying to sell us that Giant is feeling no ill-effects from five story fall. Basically, Giant is no-selling death. BEARHUG. 

Hogan hulks up one more time and does his usual shit until Jimmy Hart knocks out the referee. Here’s how idiotic Hogan is….he asks what happens…but you can clearly see Jimmy Hart is closest to the official and he has the title belt in his hand. :lmao :lmao 
:lmao As, Hogan is yelling at Hart…Giant keeping peeking his head up to see what’s happening. Hart hits Hogan with the belt and Hogan goes to hit him but Giant saves him.

Out comes Luger and Savage but Luger turns heel….and DRUMROLL PLEASE.

A mummy appears. A FUCKING MUMMY. :lmao :lmao :lmao. This is like WCW meets Scooby-Doo meets Harlem Globetrotters. 

Okay. First of all: Yeti’s are like Polar Bears. That thing is a mummy. It’s bandaged from head to toe… so it’s a mummy not a “YEH-TEH”. Yeti comes up behind Hogan and more or less dry humps him without actually hurting him at all 

:lmao :lmao. Luger puts the rack on Hogan and the fans are kind of cheering at this point.

Finally the call this match a DQ because Buffer must’ve been sleeping or something because the DQ happened like hours ago. Giant wins by DQ because he was Hogan’s manager when he hit the referee. They announce that the title can’t change hands on DQ. 

BUT IT DOES. Because, that no-good Jimmy Hart slipped a clause that states that the title can change hands on a DQ so Giant is the NEW champion. :lmao :lmao. Started from the bottom of sidewalk of Cobo Hall and now he's here.

****** You have your classics like Steamboat-Flair, Steamboat-Savage, Michaels-Taker but this was a true masterpiece. The storytelling, the drama, the suspense, the run-in of the Yeti, the turns and THE FINISH. This is what World Championship Wrestling is all about. *

*5/100- That might have been the worst thing I’ve hate-watched in a LOOONG time. Let’s see 8/9 matches were either pointless or dull. The Horseman stuff is great but it’s NOT worth tracking down to see this crap. The amount of fuckery in this show was just too great. A bunch of WTF moments with bad wrestling mixed in.*​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Damn my review kinda went unnoticed damn you taylorfritz :ziggler1
> 
> not that much wrestling on the schedule for me today
> 
> Ive never seen a Wargames either


I responded!

------------------

Good GOD. I've never seen anything from Spring Stampede '94 and that lineup looks absolutely godly. Will definitely be downloading that soon. I refuse to believe that Austin vs. Muta was bad. REFUSE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Why on earth would you refuse to believe a MUTA match was bad? Muta is terrible .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I responded!
> 
> ------------------
> 
> Good GOD. I've never seen anything from Spring Stampede '94 and that lineup looks absolutely godly. Will definitely be downloading that soon. I refuse to believe that Austin vs. Muta was bad. REFUSE


Besides you 

And yea you got to watch it, arguably the GOAT ppv in history


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Why on earth would you refuse to believe a MUTA match was bad? Muta is terrible .


I've come to the conclusion that we'll never agree on anything, Cal. 

Muta's probably my favorite gimmick wrestler of all time (yes more than the Undertaker, or at least right on par with him). At least up until '97 he is. Then he got lazy as fuck.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Muta has had like, 2 good matches in his career. One against ARN ANDERSON and another teaming with FUNK against FLAIR and Sting.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Muta has had like, 2 good matches in his career. One against ARN ANDERSON and another teaming with FUNK against FLAIR and Sting.


You're just talking US matches. If you branch over to Japan then he's had LOADS of good matches with Steamboat, Chono, Hase, Sting, Hashimoto, Shinzaki, Liger, etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've seen some of his shite from Japan and it's just that, shite .


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm surprised Cal didn't say anything about the fact that Jack Evans had Muta on the same level as Taker :lol :taker


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I opted to ignore that on the grounds that I would have to abuse my mod powers to ban him 4 life.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. I never said he was a better in-ring worker or anything, he just worked the character to absolute tee. I love me some Muta from the '90s. Always seemed larger than life.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal, did you really just say Ricky "the overrated" Steamboat vs Rick "was I ever talented?" Rude is a BORING 30 minute match? Are you out of you're ever loving mind? I'm watching that match this very second, oddly enough, how can you not like this? Rudes selling of the ribs in this match is in the pantheon of all time great sell jobs, the pacing and methodical way they dissect each other is fucking brilliant too. This match is about as close to perfection as possible in the psychology department. Ever single move means something and is done for a purpose, and selling by both guys is damn near perfect.

Never mind the fact that Steamboat and Mysterio are 1 and 1a for best baby face only workers in wrestling history, and Rude is one of the 5 greatest heels ever in my mind. Come on sir, I thought you were better than that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No ladder bumps, table spots or crazy bleeding. Didn't do it for me in the slightest.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its just Cal being his naughty self again id suspect


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm being 100% serious. It just ain't that good. I placed it #6 on my top 100 WCW matches list. SIX. A match that low in company history shouldn't be praised. Total trash.

8*D.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

YOU UNDERRATED IT CAL! HOW DARE YOU 

Top WCW Matches:

1. Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero Halloween Havoc 1997
1a. Belfast Bruiser vs Steven Regal Uncensored 1996
3. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat WrestleWar 1989
4. Ricky Steamboat vs Rick Rude BeachBlast 1992
5. Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit Clash Of the Champions Troy NY 1989
6. Ric Flair vs Big Van Vader Starrcade 1993
7. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Clash of the Champions NO 1989
8. Sting vs Big Van Vader SuperBrawl 1992
9. Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble 1989
10. WarGames match at WrestleWar 1992


Flair is involved in 5 of the top 10, I'd say the dude deserves all the "Greatest of All Time" accolades that he gets.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The REAL top matches of WCW:



Spoiler: top 100 list from MEEEEEE



1.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
2.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Vader - Saturday Night 16/10/1993
3.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Halloween Havoc 26/10/1997
4.	Belfast Bruiser Vs Steven Regal - Uncensored 24/03/1996
5.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steven Regal - Fall Brawl 19/09/1993
6.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Rick Rude - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
7.	War Games - WrestleWar 17/05/1992
8.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Wrestle War 07/05/1989
9.	Vader Vs Ric Flair – Starrcade 27/12/1993
10.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Philadelphia 18/03/1989
11.	Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 22/02/1992
12.	Sting Vs Vader - Slamboree 22/05/1994
13.	Ric Flair Vs Arn Anderson - Fall Brawl 17/09/1995
14.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Chi Town Rumble 20/02/1989
15.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Landover 18/03/1989
16.	Hulk Hogan Vs Ric Flair - Halloween Havoc 23/10/1995 
17.	Southern Boys Vs Midnight Express - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
18.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Clash of the Champions IX 15/11/1989
19.	Brian Pillman & Barry Windham Vs Ricky Steamboat & Shane Douglas - Starrcade 28/12/1992
20.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 14/09/1997
21.	Ric Flair Vs Terry Funk - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
22.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting - Beach Blast 20/06/1992
23.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit - Nitro 16/10/1995
24.	Hollywood Blonds Vs 2 Cold Scorpio & Marcus Bagwell - Worldwide 08/05/1993
25.	Vader Vs Sting - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
26.	Vader Vs Davey Boy Smith – Slamboree 23/05/1993
27.	War Games - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
28.	The Rock ‘n’ Roll Express Vs The Midnight Express - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
29.	Vader Vs Ricky Steamboat - Worldwide 29/05/1993
30.	Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes – Saturday Night 21/11/1992
31.	Vader Vs The Boss - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994
32.	Goldberg Vs Diamond Dallas Page – Halloween Havoc 25/10/1998
33.	The Steiner Bothers Vs The Nasty Boys - Halloween Havoc 27/10/1990
34.	Cactus Jack & Maxx Payne Vs The Nasty Boys - SuperBrawl IV 20/02/1994
35.	Jake Roberts Vs Dustin Rhodes - Saturday Night 26/09/1992
36.	Dustin Rhodes Vs Arn Anderson – Saturday Night 04/01/1992
37.	Finlay Vs Steven Regal – Nitro 29/04/1996
38.	Sting Vs Vader - Starrcade 28/12/1992
39.	Ron Simmons Vs Vader - Main Event 02/08/1992
40.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Hog Wild 10/08/1996
41.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Ric Flair - Nitro 20/05/1996
42.	Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat - Clash of the Champions XVII 19/11/1991 
43.	Cactus Jack Vs Sting – Power Hour 16/11/1991
44.	Ric Flair Vs Ricky Steamboat - Saturday Night 14/05/1994
45.	Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - Fall Brawl 15/09/1996
46.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Sting - Nitro 26/04/1999
47.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Goldberg - Nitro 19/04/1999
48.	Steven Regal Vs Ultimo Dragon - Slamboree 18/05/1997
49.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Chris Benoit - SuperBrawl VIII 22/02/1998
50.	Rick Rude Vs Dustin Rhodes - Worldwide 03/05/1992
51.	Steamboat/Rhodes/Koloff Vs Anderson/Zbyszko/Eaton - Saturday Night 23/05/1992
52.	Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko – Clash of the Champions XXVII 23/06/1994
53.	Cactus Jack & Kevin Sullivan Vs The Nasty Boys - Slamboree 22/05/1994
54.	Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - Starrcade 26/12/1988
55.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Steve Austin - Clash of Champions 28/08/1994
56.	Dustin Rhodes Vs Bunkhouse Buck - Spring Stampede 17/04/1994
57.	Chris Benoit Vs Fit Finlay - Slamboree 17/05/1998
58.	Ric Flair Vs Lord Steven Regal - Worldwide 01/05/1994 to 29/05/1994
59.	Rick Rude Vs Ricky Steamboat - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992
60.	3 Count Vs Jung Dragons Vs Jamie Knoble & Evan Karagias - Starrcade 17/12/2000
61.	Sid Vicious Vs Chris Benoit - Souled Out 16/01/2000
62.	Hak Vs Bam Bam Bigelow - Spring Stampede 11/04/1999
63.	Ric Flair Vs Lex Luger - WrestleWar 25/02/1990
64.	Dick Murdoch Vs Bob Orton Jr - WrestleWar 07/05/1989
65.	Stars & Stripes Vs Arn Anderson & Vader - Saturday Night 15/04/1995
66.	Dick Murdoch Vs Bob Orton Jr - Clash of the Champions VI 02/04/1989
67.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Raven Vs Chris Benoit - Uncensored 15/03/1998
68.	Mortis & Wrath Vs Glacier & The Cat - Bash at the Beach 13/07/1997
69.	Vader Vs Cactus Jack - Main Event 07/03/1993
70.	Diamond Dallas Page Vs Bret Hart - Nitro 26/10/1998
71.	Eddy Guerrero and Chris Jericho Vs The Faces of Fear - Nitro 24/02/1997
72.	Sting Vs Steven Regal – Great American Bash 16/06/1996
73.	Big Van Vader & Steve Austin Vs Ric Flair & Arn Anderson - Saturday Night 13/11/1993
74.	Arn Anderson Vs Big Josh - Saturday Night 02/05/1992
75.	Rey Mysterio Vs Eddie Guerrero - Nitro 08/09/1997
76.	War Games - WrestleWar 24/02/1991
77.	Goldberg Vs Scott Steiner - Fall Brawl 17/09/2000
78.	Lex Luger Vs Ricky Steamboat - Great American Bash 23/07/1989
79.	Sting & Ric Flair Vs Vader & Rick Rude – Clash of the Champions XXVI 27/01/1994
80.	Steven Regal Vs Larry Zbyszko – Saturday Night 28/05/1994
81.	Vader Vs Dustin Rhodes - Clash Of The Champions XXIX 16/11/1994
82.	Steve Williams & Terry Gordy Vs The Steiner Brothers - Clash Of The Champions XIX 16/06/1992
83.	Ric Flair & Sting Vs Great Muta & Dick Slater - Clash Of The Champions VIII 12/09/1989
84.	Eddie Guerrero Vs Shinjiro Ontani - Starrcade 27/12/1995
85.	Ricky Steamboat Vs Cactus Jack - Worldwide 22/02/1992
86.	Chris Jericho Vs Dean Malenko - Uncensored 15/03/1998
87.	Arn Anderson Vs Shane Douglas - World Championship Wrestling 17/02/1990
88.	Arn Anderson & Larry Zbyszko Vs Barry Windham & Ron Simmons - Pro 09/11/1991
89.	Chris Benoit Vs Mike Enos - Souled Out 17/01/1999
90.	Cactus Jack Vs Paul Orndorff - Superbrawl III 12/02/1993
91.	Vader Vs Hulk Hogan - Superbrawl 19/02/1995
92.	Mean Mark Callous Vs Lex Luger - Great American Bash 07/07/1990
93.	Arn Anderson Vs Hulk Hogan – Nitro 12/02/1996
94.	Ric Flair Vs The Giant – Nitro 25/03/1996
95.	War Games - Fall Brawl 18/09/1994
96.	Brian Pillman Vs Jushin Liger - SuperBrawl 29/02/1992
97.	Arn Anderson Vs Alex Wright - Slamboree 21/05/1995
98.	Chris Benoit Vs Jeff Jarrett - Mayhem 21/11/1999
99.	Terry Funk Vs Norman Smiley - Spring Stampede 16/04/2000
100.	Kwee Wee Vs Jason Jett – Greed 18/03/2001


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> The REAL top matches of WCW:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I LOVE that Steamboat/Vader match, it's pretty much the reason I bought the History of the WHC set. The reason it's not in my top 10? I feel like Vader gave Ricky a little too much in that match, Steamboats offense looked a bit weak at times and it seemed like Vader was just taking too much of it instead of taking control. Still adore it, it's just that aspect of it keeps it out of my top 10. It would definitely be in my top 15 though.

I think you underrated Sting vs Vader Starrcade 1992 a bit, I absolutely love that one, top 20 for me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm odd when it comes to Vader/Sting matches. I prefer their later ones (like the 94 match I had above the rest) to the earlier ones .

Just watched SD. Main event is more SHIELD goodness :mark:. If we keep getting main events with SHIELD, Cody & Goldust and Daniel Bryan, in any kind of combination, then I might just have to explode from marking out so much :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ok about to watch wargames 92, before I start, I know I sound like such a nob what are the rules ?
top wcw matches

flair/vader
flair/steamboat ww
flair/funk I quit
rey/eddie HH 97

I hate doing lists, because I forgot somethings all the time


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> ok about to watch wargames 92, before I start, I know I sound like such a nob what are the rules ?


2 guys start in the ring, after 5 minutes a coin is flipped to determine whose team gets to add a member first. After that every 2 minutes it alternates, 1 guy from each team gets added until all the members are in there. First team to have someone submit loses, no pin falls or DQ


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> ok about to watch wargames 92, before I start, I know I sound like such a nob what are the rules ?


2 guys start, then after a period of time someone else enters from one of the teams (based on a coin toss, usually a heel). So we have 2 on 1 for a while until someone from the other team comes in to even it up and so on and so on until everyone is in the match. Only after everyone is in the match can one team win, and they can only win by submission.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I like that Sting/Vader Slamboree 1994 match a lot, it's on the Best Stars of the 90s set I have, I have that behind only the SuperBrawl match as their best, but really, all the Sting/Vader matches rule. Those guys had great chemistry. Sting would take and take and take and finally when he exploded into his come back he would just lay it in stiff on Vader, give him his receipt in other words. It's the simple stories that I always end up enjoying the most.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Callamus said:


> 2 guys start, then after a period of time someone else enters from one of the teams (based on a coin toss, usually a heel). So we have 2 on 1 for a while until someone from the other team comes in to even it up and so on and so on until everyone is in the match. Only after everyone is in the match can one team win, and they can only win by submission.





Cactus Jack said:


> 2 guys start in the ring, after 5 minutes a coin is flipped to determine whose team gets to add a member first. After that every 2 minutes it alternates, 1 guy from each team gets added until all the members are in there. First team to have someone submit loses, no pin falls or DQ


Ok so you can only win by submission, Got it

I'm bookmarking all you guys top 10-100 wcw as I'm going to go back and rewatch a few, All you guys agree this one (92) is the best wargames ?

So many great-:mark: workers in this: windham, steamboat,arn,eaton, rhodes


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Ok so you can only win by submission, Got it
> 
> I'm bookmarking all you guys top 10-100 wcw as I'm going to go back and rewatch a few, All you guys agree this one (92) is the best wargames ?
> 
> So many great-:mark: workers in this: windham, steamboat,arn,eaton, rhodes


Funny you should mention, I hadn't seen any of the 90-95 WarGames matches until last night, I asked Yeah1993 which was the best and he and Hayley agreed 1991 and 1992 are the best, with the slightest edge to 1992. I watched it and posted a LONG review last night. Spectacular.


You have said before you prefer slower, more story based matches with great character work and selling as opposed to mat wrestling exhibitions with spots and stiffness. I'd say check out as many of the Vader vs Sting/Steamboat/Flair matches possible. They all tell great under dog stories and Vader comes off as this just unbelievable force of nature.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

> 100. Kwee Wee Vs Jason Jett – Greed 18/03/2001


Kwee Wee sounds familiar but I don't even know who the other guy is.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> Funny you should mention, I hadn't seen any of the 90-95 WarGames matches until last night, I asked Yeah1993 which was the best and he and Hayley agreed 1991 and 1992 are the best, with the slightest edge to 1992. I watched it and posted a LONG review last night. Spectacular.
> 
> 
> You have said before you prefer slower, more story based matches with great character work and selling as opposed to mat wrestling exhibitions with spots and stiffness. I'd say check out as many of the Vader vs *Sting/Steamboat/Flair* matches possible. They all tell great under dog stories and Vader comes off as this just unbelievable force of nature.


Seen all of those and loved them, I attempted a top 5 on the last pg, although I think sting/flair cotc is boring


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You're just talking US matches. If you branch over to Japan then he's had LOADS of good matches with Steamboat, Chono, Hase, Sting, Hashimoto, Shinzaki, Liger, etc.


Ehhhhhhhhh did he really? He was pretty goddamn lazy by even 1992, tbh. And maybe earlier but I can't be arsed watching most of what he did. He's been good at points and certainly had really good matches, but how often is that thanks to him? I think I've brought this up but I watched the Chono match from I think the 92 G-1 over a year ago and burst out laughing at one point because of how shitty I found it. Which is a shame because I thought Chono was having a good 92 considering I usually think he's boring as shit too and just not any good. Take him over Mutoh, though. I didn't before I saw the good he did in 92, but I do nowz.

I'm in total agreement that the 'Great Muta' character is awesomely badass, though. I honestly just kinda wish it given to someone else so that to equate to great matches instead of only 'a cool spectacle' sometimes.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

EDIT: 

Turns out the match that I got on my highspots DVD was a rematch. This is their first match. I will be watching it later but I've never seen it before.







If we're talking about Vader matches I would like to give a mention to Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada 8/18/94






WATCH IT


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

zep81 said:


> Vader :mark:


I don't think it's really even up for debate, Big Van Vader is the greatest Super Heavyweight of all time. Mark Henry, Bam Bam Bigelow, and Big Show are all great, but there is only 1 Vader. I need to find a place where I can get some of those Vader/Bam Bam tag matches from Japan, they sound fantastic. Vader/Bam Bam vs The Steiner Bros would be :mark:


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

TaylorFitz said:


> Kwee Wee sounds familiar but I don't even know who the other guy is.


*He was EZ Money in ECW. I think the only reason I know that is because I've been hate watching too much WCW 2000-01 stuff :argh:*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

TaylorFitz said:


> Kwee Wee sounds familiar but I don't even know who the other guy is.


You might know him as EZ Money?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

rjsbx1 said:


> *He was EZ Money in ECW. I think the only reason I know that is because I've been hate watching too much WCW 2000-01 stuff :argh:*


I love reading you're hate watch reviews so much :lmao

Keep em' coming man, that shit was classic. BEWARE OF THE YEH-TEH, THAT IS ACTUALLY A MUM-EH.

Nothing beats 1994-1995 and 2000-2001 WCW for WrestleCrap. They put out some truly monumentally awful stuff. Just heinous.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Typed in like, 75 random shows in to a randomizer to decide what to watch. What I got... Spring Stampede 2000!

I don't have a clue what's on the card other than the Funk/Smiley match, and I'm gonna keep it like that. I'll post my thoughts when I've done


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watch FUNK VS SMILEY 75 times in a row.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Ehhhhhhhhh did he really? He was pretty goddamn lazy by even 1992, tbh. And maybe earlier but I can't be arsed watching most of what he did. He's been good at points and certainly had really good matches, but how often is that thanks to him? I think I've brought this up but I watched the Chono match from I think the 92 G-1 over a year ago and burst out laughing at one point because of how shitty I found it. Which is a shame because I thought Chono was having a good 92 considering I usually think he's boring as shit too and just not any good. Take him over Mutoh, though. I didn't before I saw the good he did in 92, but I do nowz.
> 
> I'm in total agreement that the 'Great Muta' character is awesomely badass, though. I honestly just kinda wish it given to someone else so that to equate to great matches instead of only 'a cool spectacle' sometimes.


I'll agree at times he comes off as lazy but I can adequate it to also working that slower methodical pace that came with the character. The Chono match that I love was from 1/4/93 in the Dome. Great stuff. The Hase matches are both bloodbaths. 9/14/90 and 12/14/92 I believe. Then you have his AMAZING spectacles in '96 against Liger (10/20 I think?) and Shinzaki on 4/29. I'm just infatuated with the guy, honestly. Such a fan of his character and the aura he brought with him to each match. OH and he had a really fun match with Hogan at Dontaku '93 too. Or maybe '95? Fuck if I remember. 

He's had enough good matches to equal out the cool spectacles from my viewings thus far. I haven't like went through catalogs of his work or anything but from the 20-30 matches I've seen from the guy I definitely became a fan. I should probably watch more of his US work though. Damn near all of that has escaped me.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> I love reading you're hate watch reviews so much :lmao
> 
> Keep em' coming man, that shit was classic. BEWARE OF THE YEH-TEH, THAT IS ACTUALLY A MUM-EH.
> 
> Nothing beats 1994-1995 and 2000-2001 WCW for WrestleCrap. They put out some truly monumentally awful stuff. Just heinous.


*Gracias, Cactus. Although, I have NO earthly idea what I'm going to watch next. As much I love watching great classic matches, I sure do love me some Wrestlecrap. 

Any suggestions? *


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King of the Ring 1995?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Muta has had like, 2 good matches in his career. One against ARN ANDERSON and another teaming with FUNK against FLAIR and Sting.


NO NO NO NO NO, AHHHH NO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TaylorFitz said:


> If we're talking about Vader matches I would like to give a mention to Vader vs. Nobuhiko Takada 8/18/94
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Watched that and posted about it the other day, stiff as fuck match, one of Vader's best and easily his best UWFi match, ill need to watch the first match as i dont think ive seen it.

@ Cactus Jack - Ill upload Vader/Bam Bam vs Steiners tomorrow


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wargames 92 was phenomenal, which was expected, thanks to Zep for the upload, you are the man brother

I find it funny because for some reason I cant slap a ** rating on it as its different than any other type of match. Its just I know its very good, I want to watch others to build my own idea on them. I just read the naitch was only the 91 and two TGAB 87 ones, which would you recommend, which from 87 is the good one ?


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

Callamus said:


> King of the Ring 1995?












*:lmao It's between that or WWE's ECW's December to Dismember 2006 or another WCW circa 2000 PPV. *


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

rjsbx1 said:


> *Gracias, Cactus. Although, I have NO earthly idea what I'm going to watch next. As much I love watching great classic matches, I sure do love me some Wrestlecrap.
> 
> Any suggestions? *


Does TNA fit your bill? Lockdown & Sacrifice 2011 say hi. Or if you want to see the worst PPV known to man, watch Against All Odds 2010. It's a struggle to finish.

I'm going into the real brutal stuff to watch. Can't go wrong with Survivor Series 1999 either. Or Halloween Havoc 2000. Why does every Havoc show from '95 - on end in hilarious fashion? Show was cursed.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Primer said:


> NO NO NO NO NO, AHHHH NO.


THERE YOU ARE



The Primer said:


> Or if you want to see the worst PPV known to man, watch Against All Odds 2010. It's a struggle to finish.


I 2nd that vote. So many DUDs on that show, despite a good AJ/Joe match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was gonna say that AJ vs. Joe sounds good if it's like their Turning Point 2005 match. Wait, do people like that match?

I actually think it'd be pretty fun to watch a WOAT PPV contender soon. Hm...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ECW December to Dismember isn't THAT bad. Opening tag is really good, Balls Vs Striker is actually decent all things considering and the EC match is FAR from the worst.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

how was the fall brawl 96 wargames ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Styles vs Joe kind of sucks too. That fits with the rest of the show being a struggle. However, it is MOTN simply by default. b/c it's not a DUD. Only boring.

Nothing like their matches in 2005. _(plural, b/c while Turning Point is the classic, Super X Cup finals is fantastic too)_

oh, & MUTA for life.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

redskins25 said:


> how was the fall brawl 96 wargames ?


I'm a pretty big fan of that one. Made my top 100 list.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That is one (of a fair few id imagine ) matches i have still never seen - Liger/Muta


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You can always go with the 2013 Royal Rumble, shit was absolute unadulterated garbage. OR, just for the sake of one match, PLEASE hate-watch Hogan vs Warrior Halloween Havoc 1998 at some point. That show as a whole wasn't bad, the Hart/Sting match was great and DDP/Goldberg wasn't bad, but that match. Oh man. :lmao I'd just love to hear your take on it.


Halloween Havoc 2000 seems like the perfect choice, go for it. Goldberg vs KroniK is the main even! :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's a hot match, skins. nWo at their peak in War Games against the biggest WCW team they could have made. It's fun & the essential moment for the Sting crow build towards Starrcade. The very least, you'll have fun. I know I do.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Masahiro Chino is bad? Is there a bias against 90s NJPW stars?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did someone just say Bret/Sting was great and DDP/Goldberg "wasn't bad"? WASN'T BAD? More like was fucking AWESOME and the greatest thing Goldberg has even done and one of the GOAT WCW matches EVER.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> You can always go with the 2013 Royal Rumble, shit was absolute unadulterated garbage. OR, just for the sake of one match, PLEASE hate-watch Hogan vs Warrior Halloween Havoc 1998 at some point. That show as a whole wasn't bad, the Hart/Sting match was great and DDP/Goldberg wasn't bad, but that match. Oh man. :lmao I'd just love to hear your take on it.


Goldberg vs DDP is EXCELLENT. Watched Sting vs Bret recently and I used to like it, but it's so lolBret in WCW. Nothing happens for 15 minutes. That's worth a watch for a laugh. That show is pretty good though outside of that & the Hogan vs Warrior match iirc. Jericho vs Raven, Finlay vs Wright, Saturn squash, MENG VS WRATH~!, cruserweight title series.

------------

Muta vs Liger in '96 is kind of the greatest match known to man. At least one of 'em. It's watching real life Anime. Unbelievable.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Alright I'll watch either the fall brawl 96 or TGAB 87 one

it says their to TGAB 87 ones ?

Cody I can link you a site with the wargames DVD ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Callamus said:


> DDP/Goldberg "wasn't bad"? WASN'T BAD? More like was fucking AWESOME and the greatest thing Goldberg has even done and one of the GOAT WCW matches EVER.





The Primer said:


> Goldberg vs DDP is EXCELLENT.


Yey we agreed on something tonight! *high five*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> Alright I'll watch either the fall brawl 96 or TGAB 87 one
> 
> it says their to TGAB 87 ones ?
> 
> Cody I can link you a site with the wargames DVD ?


To buy?



Callamus said:


> Yey we agreed on something tonight! *high five*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Muta vs Liger in '96 is kind of the greatest match known to man. At least one of 'em. It's watching real life Anime. Unbelievable.


Ive only just realised i have access to that match  Ill 100% watch it tomorrow :mark:

10/20 yeah?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

To watch online or you want to own it ? nevermind


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the one. Always felt so fitting it happened nearly on Halloween.

Hey, it's the Anniversary of the date today. Everyone should watch now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Only seen it once but I thought AJ/Joe from AAO was pretty good. ***+ level for me and far and away the best match on that shitty show.



zep81 said:


> That is one (of a fair few id imagine ) matches i have still never seen - Liger/Muta


INSULTING. Liger fan with an avatar and banner... :no:



funnyfaces1 said:


> Masahiro Chino is bad? Is there a bias against 90s NJPW stars?


Who? 



zep81 said:


> Ive only just realised i have access to that match  Ill 100% watch it tomorrow :mark:
> 
> 10/20 yeah?


CORRECT


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> INSULTING. Liger fan with an avatar and banner... :no:
> 
> CORRECT


I know, i know   One that totally skipped me lol.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just watched the Angle/Rock/Taker triple threat match from vengence 02. Sure there wasn't much psychology usage, there wasn't any complex interweaving of multiple storylines that you see in some triple threat matches, hell the match itself wasn't even that cleanly executed as far as moves are concerned. However, I found the match to be highly entertaining (particularly the stolen moves spot) and I felt like there were enough false finishes to captivate attention and obviously the crowd was into the match and I feel like all three involved played their parts well with no one bringing the match down (to me the most essential ingredient to a triple threat match). 

I liked the lead into the finish with the triangle choke callback by angle (interestingly enough this would be a significant finish when Angle and Taker meet one on one again several years later), and I enjoyed the finish with the rock pinning angle while Taker was just a second too late to break up the count too fatigued from the match. The finish reminded me of some of the brilliant Holy demon alliance/Misawa and Kobashi finishes. All in all if you go into the match expecting a pure technical wrestling masterpiece or overanalyze the match you will be disappointed, but if you just sit back as a wrestling fan wanting to be entertained (which at heart we all are), the match is rather good. I am not a big star guy, but if I had to give the match an estimate id give it on my scale about 3 and a quarter. good match. 

On a side note to those who haven't seen Muta/Liger 96 you are in for a real treat. LOVE the darkness/light contrast the two put on and how Muta brings out the violent side of Liger.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Only seen it once but I thought AJ/Joe from AAO was pretty good. ***+ level for me and far and away the best match on that shitty show.


Won't lie, I could be a bit harder on it b/c that show was so hard to finish that I probably just wanted that 20+ minute match to zoom on by I wasn't looking at it correctly. I can just pop in the DVD over again _(yes, I friggin own it)_ and give that match another chance. Crowd is soooooooooo bad though. oof.

Bought that three pack on a whim mostly to own Turning Point '09. Too bad Final Resolution & AAO are embarrassing tripe riddled events. Meanwhile, I own none of the fun shows from 2012.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

redskins25 said:


> how was the fall brawl 96 wargames ?


I liked it. I can't think of anything else to say, but I liked it. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Masahiro Chino is bad? Is there a bias against 90s NJPW stars?


Hashimoto is my #1 favourite wrestler of all time so.............


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm hoping that next Sunday's show ends with Bo Dallas ripping off the cell door, him laying out Bryan, Orton, and Michaels with the...whatever his finisher is, and then a shot of him standing on top of the cell holding up the WWE championship while the camera slowly zooms in on his smiling face.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Goldberg vs DDP one of the GOAT matches in WCW? The hell you say? I remember it being pretty good, not quite great, but I haven't seen it in YEARS, so maybe my tastes have changed. I will defend Sting/Hart though, just saw that not long and remember really enjoying it, thinking it was probably Bret's best match in WCW (not that that's saying much, oof did he suck there.). 

Luckily, I just so happen to have the Goldberg Blu Ray sitting here, I am going to watch it and see if my opinion has changed at all. I remember giving Bret/Sting ***3/4 and Goldberg/DDP *** on last watch. Let's see if I go up or down at all.

Full disclosure: I'm not a fan of either DDP OR Goldberg, but as a kid? Absolutely fucking loved them. I had the self high 5 tee and Goldberg "Who's next?" Tee and everything.

Match starts and man, does this ever bring me back to my childhood. I was in 6th or 7th grade when this happened, and I remember how important this felt at the time. Second only to the Nash/Golderg Starrcade match as far as importance goes back then.

Some quick chain wrestling and Goldberg, out of nowhere, just does a back hand spring in the middle of the ring. What? Move didn't really make sense, but damn was that impressive. So the story appears to be that DDP is the "common man" and he's trying to topple the monster. Page brought Goldberg into the business so he knows him better than anyone. Page is trying to out quick and out smart Goldberg with quick wrestling moves into wear down holds. Ok that makes sense. The problem is, Goldberg is also trying to work Page's arm with the cross arm breaker. What is that gonna do? Page doesn't need that arm for the Diamond Cutter, and as the big brute in the match, Goldberg should just be inflicting as much damage as possible, not worrying about an arm bar. Always think it's weird when a big strong bad ass tries to use submission holds on a smaller guy.

Thankfully he drops the submission and tries to slam Page again, but DDP is too quick and counters with a Hurricanrana. Ok that was pretty sweet. Goldberg tries for the spear but again, DDP is too quick and gets out of the way. 

Alright I'll admit, they are definitely sticking to the story here, Goldberg is consistently keeping the advantage, but DDP keeps out smarting him and countering everything, because he knows Goldberg better than anyone. Goldberg hits the spear, goes for the Jackhammer, but gets countered AGAIN by DDP into the Diamond Cutter. Close false finish, then Goldberg takes him up one more time and finally gets the Jackhammer for the 1-2-3.


I definitely liked it more this time around. They told a basic story that everyone can understand and stuck to it. That match was exactly what it needed to be. There wasn't a whole lot to it, but the atmosphere made every move and counter feel twice as important. DDP definitely carried that one, and he did an admirable job as a homeless mans Randy Savage. Very, very good, possibly great. In the ***3/4 area seems fair.

Is it one of the GOAT matches in WCW? As Senator Clay Davis from The Wire would say "Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit". Absolutely fucking not. It is one of the GOAT matches from the NWO period on though, I'll give it that. Probably the best match Goldberg had, although I do really really like his matches with Sid and Scott Hall. Along with the EC match he had in WWE, if that counts.

Obviously this is all just my opinion . Had to add that because I hate when people state opinions and act like they are undisputed truths.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

DDP is a miracle worker. Every single senior citizen in that horrible WCW main event scene had their best match during the nWo era with Page. Heck, even Hogan had a really good match with him.

Can anyone find the 2/22/92 ultra-tag match from WCW that everyone pimps? (Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat)


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

redskins25 said:


> how was the fall brawl 96 wargames ?


I loved this one. I purchased the War Games set and I watched the whole thing and I enjoyed this more than most of the matches on the set. The best moment of that match was seeing Arn Anderson play a face in a War Games match after being a heel forever.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Random PPV time. Night of Champions 2011 due to the fact that someone in this section called Orton/Henry Big Mark's greatest match ever and I haven't seen it since that year. The only match on that card I've seen fairly recently is HHH/Punk so this should be fun.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

zep81 said:


> *Dangerous Alliance vs. Sting’s Squadron (Wargames 1992)*
> 
> (Wrestlewar 5/17/92)
> 
> ...


Wonderful!



funnyfaces1 said:


> What's scary is that the already incredible Spring Stampede 94 could have been even better if Rude/Sting and Austin/Muta didn't disappoint. Every match on that card was a potential high-end match.


And those matches are not bad...just not great



Callamus said:


> Why on earth would you refuse to believe a MUTA match was bad? Muta is terrible .














zep81 said:


> Vader :mark:


Essentially this. 



PGSucks said:


> I'm hoping that next Sunday's show ends with Bo Dallas ripping off the cell door, him laying out Bryan, Orton, and Michaels with the...whatever his finisher is, and then a shot of him standing on top of the cell holding up the WWE championship while the camera slowly zooms in on his smiling face.


I kinda want this to happen just to see the epic meltdown in the IWC. :lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So how bad was BFG? anything worth watching?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Eddie Gurrero and Tajiri vs Charlie Haas and shelton Benjamin- SD 5/28/03

Fun match, not as good as their ladder match at JD 03 but still solid. I felt that it dragged on at times but still good for a TV tag match. I actually thought the DQ finish was clever although a clean win would have been better. ***


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I fell asleep after the Russo/Radio guy match when I was watching Spring Stampede 2000, and now I've woken up I have no intentions of finishing the show. The Team Package tag was shite, as was Russo/Radio guy, and when Shiavonne ran down the card, I really didn't want to watch it. I think I'll just scope out Funk vs. Smiley and leave the rest


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm gonna rewatch No Mercy 06 for the millionth time now. And everybody should too.

It's my favorite PPV of all time, not just for being my 1st wholesome PPV experience ever, but because it just has so much good:
- The Matt/Helms awesome opener
- A sleeper and super fun tag
- Layla El's INCREDIBLE body (and ass especially)
- William Regal's skits (except for the naked one)
- The 2nd half of Taker/Kennedy (except for the finish, though the post-match was awesome)
- Everything else
Yup, No Mercy 06, bitchez.

EDIT: smitty, Angle/Roode was badass (even if it did gave me huge dejá vú of Angle/Benoit) if you ask me but the rest reminded me of NOC in terms of lackluster consistency.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

REGAL'S PENIS~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can anyone find the 2/22/92 ultra-tag match from WCW that everyone pimps? (Arn Anderson, Bobby Eaton, Larry Zbyszko & Rick Rude Vs Sting, Barry Windham, Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat)


*Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Rick Rude vs Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (WCWSN 2/22/92)*

https://hotfile.com/dl/251589982/4275b33/(WCWSN_22.2.92).avi.html


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching the four previous HIAC events in the lead up Sunday's event. Pray for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is the Randy Savage/Ted Dibiase (Wrestlefest 1988) match on a DVD? Heard good things about it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It's on the Macho Madness Ultimate Collection DVD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> It's on the Macho Madness Ultimate Collection DVD.


That is the Steel Cage match mate, think the one from Wrestlefest is from July '88.

*i think*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, I see that now. It must have happened later in the week because the listing I had said July 22nd 1988 for the cage match (the one with the interfering fan).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> Yeah, I see that now. It must have happened later in the week because the listing I had said July 22nd 1988 for the cage match (the one with the interfering fan).


Think the Wrestlefest match is only on a DVD called 'Macho Madness', not sure how much that goes for now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, this thread didn't have much activity at all last night. 

Random note, kinda pissed because I'm gonna be forced to miss Hell in a Cell because I have go up and work in Hagerstown all day Sunday and Monday (OT dollars), then come back to Winchester and work 9-4 on Tuesday. BULLSHIT. Of course with the most anticipated ppv in 2 months that I actually _wanna_ pay money for...



Saint Dick said:


> Random PPV time. Night of Champions 2011 due to the fact that someone in this section called Orton/Henry Big Mark's greatest match ever and I haven't seen it since that year. The only match on that card I've seen fairly recently is HHH/Punk so this should be fun.


Looking forward to see what you think of both Cena/Del Rio and Punk/HHH. (Y) Although I'll say Orton/Henry gets heavily overrated on here for some reason. It's good but just *** level good for me.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Nearly done with HIAC 2009, just finished Cena/Orton. I know Trips/Shawn is long and drawn out, but Cena/Orton is just horrid. Just terrible.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield vs. Bryan & Rhodes Boys from this weeks SD gets a solid ****1/2* from me. Kind of amazing how they manage to keep these things fresh. The outside powerbomb of Cody on to Goldust was an awesome little spot. Shield and Bryan are definitely this years MVP's.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been meaning to check out that 6-man from Friday. Glad to hear it's good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I reviewed NOC 11 a month ago

henry/orton, cena/adr, cody,diase are good, the fatal 4 US title match is OK, stay way from the rest


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Hell in a Cell 2009​*CM Punk vs The Undertaker - HIAC Match for the WHC Title - ***3/4*
John Morrison vs Dolph Ziggler - Intercontinental Title - ****1/4*
Alicia Fox vs Mickie James - Divas Title **3/4*
Jerishow vs Rey Mysterio and Batista - Tag Team Titles - ****3/4*
John Cena vs Randy Orton - HIAC Match for the WWE Title - **1/2*
Drew McIntyre vs R-Truth - **1/2*
DX vs Legacy - HIAC Match - ***1/4*

Below average show, but in my opinion, Punk/Taker was the best HIAC match on this card, which still isn't saying much. Cena/Orton is super-boring, and makes Shawn/Hunter from 2004 look like a ***** classic. Punk/Taker had constant action, and at least told a bit of a story. Cena/Orton and Legacy/DX had trouble keeping my attention. 

Match of the night for me was clearly the tag title match. Some fun tag stuff between Mysterio and Batista, with Jericho and Mysterio having some great interactions. Cool finishing sequence also, with Show hitting the knockout punch on Mysterio in mid air, following the 619.

Morrison/Ziggler was the next best match on this card, and a pretty good bout for the IC title. There was a good bit of mat wrestling in this match, Ziggler has a nice control segment, basic that it was, and the finish was pretty good. 

Diva match was actually decent. Mickie James :kobe4


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

smitty915 said:


> Eddie Gurrero and Tajiri vs Charlie Haas and shelton Benjamin- SD 5/28/03
> 
> Fun match, not as good as their ladder match at JD 03 but still solid. I felt that it dragged on at times but still good for a TV tag match. I actually thought the DQ finish was clever although a clean win would have been better. ***


I dug this match 10x more than their Ladder match at Judgement Day 2003. The Ladder match was good but nothing we haven't seen before and it took a while to pick up but once it did, it was awesome with a cool ending to it too. They had another good tag match on Smackdown 7/3/03 with Eddie turning heel on Tajiri post-match (still question why they tried to turn an insanely over Eddie heel :side: ). You should check that one out.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

if that 5/28/03 tag is the one I thinking of its a top 10 match of 2003 IMO


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

SLIM SHADY LP™ said:


> I dug this match 10x more than their Ladder match at Judgement Day 2003. The Ladder match was good but nothing we haven't seen before and it took a while to pick up but once it did, it was awesome with a cool ending to it too. They had another good tag match on Smackdown 7/3/03 with Eddie turning heel on Tajiri post-match (still question why they tried to turn an insanely over Eddie heel :side: ). You should check that one out.


It was Eddie's wishes, he never saw himself as a face, he thought the only way he could succeed was as a heel. He talks about it in his book. He was trying to be a full blown heel, but his match with Benoit at Vengeance 03' turned him completely face.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Two matches left on NoC '11. Mediocre show so far but I was shocked by how much I liked one of the matches. Won't say which.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I know which SD :hbk2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cactus Jack said:


> It was Eddie's wishes, he never saw himself as a face, he thought the only way he could succeed was as a heel. He talks about it in his book. He was trying to be a full blown heel, but his match with Benoit at Vengeance 03' turned him completely face.


yeah lol. He also had an interview from WM21 time. There he said he wants to wrestle HBK and that he prefers playing a heel but fans don't allow him because they keep cheering. What makes it funny is that in 2004 he snapped at a Germany house show and picked up a mic to say "GERMANY SUCKS" because the fans booed him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't recall anything from NOC being beyond mediocre tbh. Fuck knows what might you liked though .


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> I know which SD :hbk2


Guess.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You say you have two matches left right ?

Rhodes/dibiase

or

Cena/adr

But rhodes/dbiase is my guess


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Cactus Jack said:


> It was Eddie's wishes, he never saw himself as a face, he thought the only way he could succeed was as a heel. He talks about it in his book. He was trying to be a full blown heel, but his match with Benoit at Vengeance 03' turned him completely face.


Ah, makes sense now. I always found it weird how they randomly turned him heel when he was one of the most over mid-card acts at the time but Eddie always did feel comfortable playing the douchebag heel. Eddie's antics as a comedic heel were gold.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> You say you have two matches left right ?
> 
> Rhodes/dibiase
> 
> ...


Nope. Wasn't a fan of Rhodes/DiBiase.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Randomly wandered into FYE today, picked up the Rise and fall of ECW and ONS 2005 combo DVD for only 7 DOLLARS NEW! that shit on Amazon is going for like 50 bucks used! awesome deal! I have heard the rise and fall of ECW is one of WWE's best doc's and ONS 2005 is already one of the most FUN PPV's I have ever seen.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

5/22/03 Eddie/Tajiri tag is a WWE MOTYC for sure (only have Angle/Taker and Lesnar/Benoit over it). I like 5/29 a lot too but it doesn't compare.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> I've been meaning to check out that 6-man from Friday. Glad to hear it's good.


It's rather tremendous. Total hot sprint. Watch immediately.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Glad to see JeriShow vs. Mysterio/Batista from HIAC got some love. Clear MOTN, but considering that the only other half decent match on that card was a match that could have been even better (Ziggler/Morrison), this wasn't a surprise. I just shudder at the thought of ever rewatching any of those three terrible HIAC matches.

I don't know how you do it zep81, but thanks so much for uploading that tag match. Funny how the other match I could never find was that Savage/Dibiase match that you too are looking for.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

:ti at some of the matches listed in this section's 5 star matches thread.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I saw HHH vs John Cena WM 22 :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

This match should be interesting


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Someone said Punk/Jericho from Payback and someone else said RVD/Cena from ONS 2006 were ***** matches. :ti


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:langston thoughts on that match


That 5* thread is laughable, been reading it from a far, :lmao at the fact they are all in awe when someone post a someone decent list of over 20 matches when its MELTZERS


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

smitty915 said:


> Randomly wandered into FYE today, picked up the Rise and fall of ECW and ONS 2005 combo DVD for only 7 DOLLARS NEW! that shit on Amazon is going for like 50 bucks used! awesome deal! I have heard the rise and fall of ECW is one of WWE's best doc's and ONS 2005 is already one of the most FUN PPV's I have ever seen.


I've done this a few times. I've actually purchased DVDs for the sole purpose of selling them at a huge profit. I know I've bought Survivor Series 2001 and Royal Rumble 2000 on DVD for like $8 and sold them for around $30 on ebay. 

Best sale ever was a sealed Spring Stampede 1993(? the one with Flair/Steamoat) that I found online for $10 and apparently went way up in value in the 3 years that I had it and never opened it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

They didnt know its Meltzers list


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at JBL referencing the second greatest cage match of all-time just now.

EDIT: Please let Big E Langston take the IC Title off of Axel. Guy is awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> They didnt know its Meltzers list


Yea that was pretty great. Out of the thousands and thousands of matches I've seen, only 30 are worthy of 5*, atleast in my mind. It's all opinion obviously

Tully Blanchard vs Magnum TA I Quit Cage Match SC1985
Flair vs Ricky Steamboat Chi Town Rumble
Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat NO Clash
Ric Flar vs Ricky Steamboat WrestleWar
Ric Flair vs Terry Funk I Quit Clash
Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior WM7
Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect SS91'
WrestleWar WarGames 1992
Bret Hart vs Mr. Perfect KotR 1993
Bret Hart vs Owen Hart WM 10
Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke Super J 1994
Belfast Bruiser vs Steven Regal Uncensored 1996
Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero Best of Super Juniors 1996
Mankind vs HBK at Mindgames 1996
Rey Mysterio vs Eddie Guerrero HH1997
Bret Hart vs SCSA WM 13 (The GOAT Match)
10 Man Tag at Canadien Stampede 1997
HBK vs Undertaker HiaC 1997
Cactus Jack vs Triple H Street Fight Royal Rumble 2000
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho Ladder Match Royal Rumble 2001
Chris Benoit vs HBK vs HHH WM 20
Randy Orton vs Mick Foley Hardcore Backlash 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs JBL Judgement Day 2004
Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 6/23/05
Undertaker vs Kurt Angle NWO 2006
HBK vs Undertaker WM25
HBK vs Undertaker WM26
CM Punk vs John Cena MitB 2011
Brock Lesnar vs John Cena ER 2012
CM Punk vs Brock Lesnar SS 2013


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Big E is so awesome. Dude is the closest thing we'll get to Marcus Cor Von being back in WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I just turned on RAW and Big E. Langston is face now??? Why does that actually intrigue me?  He looked pretty good destroying the Heyman guys. Langston vs. Axel at HIAC I'm guessing?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

really liked uso/shield


GOAT on now :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That contract signing was a really nice segment. Hunter heelin it up and Shawn giving right back to him was glorious. Also the intensity between Bryan and Orton. YES!

Would've rather seen the Tag Title match be a 3-way elimination so the first few minutes can be all good and fun, then the Usos get eliminated and shit gets real.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Tag match should be fun Sunday. 

Trips being the GOAT he is :burieding everyone.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'd say the contract signing, barring anything crazy, solidifies Bryan vs. HHH for Mania. Does this mean Cena vs. Punk? :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> I'd say the contract signing, barring anything crazy, solidifies Bryan vs. HHH for Mania. Does this mean Cena vs. Punk? :mark:


No, it should mean Cena vs Orton in a title unification match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I actually wouldn't hate Cena vs. Orton, unlike quite a few people on here . I do hope Orton gets a high-profile match of some sort though, because he hasn't been in a big Mania match since 25


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Del Rio Project!
*
*









World Heavyweight Championship - TLC Match
*Kane (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio (_TLC 2010_)

This is one TLC match I've surprisingly never seen and almost no one talks about, and I got to see why now. It's just kinda... there. It started out pretty well as they got everyone involved and did some creative things, then they just slowed way down for some reason. All 4 guys just start walking around, punching each other, setting up a spot here and there, but it just never goes anywhere. The pace never picks up, they all climb the ladder at half speed, and the ladder just gets in the way half the time. The last few minutes were pretty solid with Del Rio falling through a couple tables and Rey taking a tombstone off a failed springboard attempt, but none of it was able to pull this out of the 'average' department. Disappointing match. Oh and those bumps that Edge took didn't do his neck any favors at all.

** 1/2

---------------------------------------

*World Heavyweight Championship
*Edge (c) vs. Alberto Del Rio (_Wrestlemania XXVII_)

Haven't seen this one since Mania aired. Held up very well to say the least. Whole match is based around Edge's injured left arm (surprise, surprise). I'm not sure what the hell the announcers were talking about, but they said that Del Rio was "on a roll" coming into this match, which couldn't be farther from the truth. The guy hadn't won a match in a month and lost to Christian two weeks in a row coming into this. I guess they were just referring to the fact that he was able to injure Edge's arm by getting him into the cross armbreaker on TV or something, idk. But anyway, this match was really good. Del Rio had some great heat on his own but bringing Brodus & Ricardo to ringisde only helped things. Having them get involved at the absolute perfect times were a GREAT touch and really added a factor of suspense when Del Rio was able to get a close nearfall. The first transition into the cross armbreaker got a real rise out of me. That was pretty cool. The last few minutes were really good back and forth action but I didn't really like how easily Edge reversed the armbreaker right into his leg submission and then won with a spear. I would've liked to see him sell the arm a little better or win with something else, but that's the only negative here. Really fun match with the addition of 3 guys at ringside. It was just odd to see Del Rio winning all the big ones, then he loses clean here and they destroy his car while he sits there like a little bitch...

*** 1/4

---------------------------------------

*WWE Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Rey Mysterio (_RAW August 15, 2011_)

So here we have Alberto Del Rio's first official match and defense as WWE Champion, the night after he cashed in on CM Punk at Summerslam to win the belt. This one takes place in Mysterio's hometown of San Diego and folks seem to completely forget this happened. This one tells a fun story of Mysterio throwing everything in his arsenal at the champ with the hometown crowd behind him as Del Rio vows to ground the masked man and take the crowd out of it at every opportunity. Del Rio takes Rey's mask about halfway off on multiple occasions and hits a THUNDERING enziguri (shown above), but this whole match is really about Rey flying around the ring and exciting the crowd. In the end, Alberto survives the environment and his long time rival by putting his knees up on Rey's attempted springboard splash after the 619, then rolls him over for the quick pin. I really liked the different attempt at a finish, but I think if Rey were to kickout they could've put together a great finishing stretch behind a red hot crowd. Not their best match together (I'd actually say it's #3), but this one's still pretty fun.

***​


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, I downloaded Goldberg's DVD last week and wanted to watch it only to be welcomed by his debut match and finding out there's no documentary. BOOOOOOOOOOO! (N)


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anything good happen on Raw tonight?

Watching the NoC '11 main event then I'll post the review. Cena/Del Rio got me amped for their match at Hell in a Cell.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything good happen on Raw tonight?
> 
> Watching the NoC '11 main event then I'll post the review. Cena/Del Rio got me amped for their match at Hell in a Cell.


That Cena/Del Rio match was kinda hilarious. Nothing actually happened in the match. It was just both guys listening to that crazy crowd. Probably their worst match together, but all of their matches have been good-great. And then things get even funnier during the main event...

Shield/Usos was pretty fun and BIG E LANGSTON went crazy. Everything in the third hour was great, but the first two hours were just average. Orton/Ziggler was fun too if you like their matches. R-Truth also does a hilarious promo :lol. And how could I forget Ambrose/Bryan? That was solid too.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Choke2Death said:


> lol, I downloaded Goldberg's DVD last week and wanted to watch it only to be welcomed by his debut match and finding out there's no documentary. BOOOOOOOOOOO! (N)


Same thing happened to me, such a swing and a miss.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*Night of Champions 2011*

Air Boom v Awesome Truth
Hmmm... R-Truth, The Miz and Kofi Kingston in the same match. This never stood a chance. First of all Truth and Miz performed You Suck (What's Up remix) which if taken seriously was cringe worthy, if not taken seriously was somewhat humorous but still pretty awful. Secondly, Booker T is a horrendous commentator. "HE GON DO IT!" Like what the fuck is that? Thirdly, I'm never watching this again in my life. Bourne tried to be a decent FIP but that isn't really possible with Miz and Truth doing the control work. I can't remember anything they did and I just watched the match. Miz maybe had a nice kick or boot or something. Maybe? Anyway, the last few minutes had good energy and I dug the stuff with the ref fucking up playing into the conspiracy theory angle Miz and Truth had going at the time, but it wasn't enough to save this. Bad match.

Cody Rhodes v Ted DiBiase
I don't know what to say about this. They wrestled, I guess? They went out there and worked a match but I didn't care about any of what they did. The most interesting thing that happened was Booker T calling a spinebuster a 'sidewalk slam' and proceeding to tell Michael Cole that they're the same move. Seriously, he did that. Rhodes and DiBiase did a few neat sequences but overall it lacked heat, drama, hate or anything to make it stand out. And the finish sucked. Not a good match. Bad start to the show.

Christian cut a promo, Sheamus came out and Brogue Kicked him. Better than anything on the show so far.

Dolph Ziggler v Alex Riley v Jack Swagger v John Morrison
Ughh, shitty multi-man spotfest. Why am I watching this PPV? 0 for 3 in the match department.

Randy Orton v Mark Henry
This is the main reason I decided to watch this PPV in the first place dawg. Right here dawg! Booker T dawg! Finally some quality. I thought Orton in particular was really good. Henry was Henry meaning he held up his end of the bargain but I feel looking back on this that I'd be more inclined to praise Orton's performance. Maybe that's because I'm used to Henry being a badass monster heel whereas I can't think of too many (or any?) babyface Orton showings on this level. His selling was good throughout and his offense had an extra urgency and aggressiveness to it. One thing I didn't love was how early and easily Orton got Henry off his feet. It's not a big deal or anything but I would've preferred them to go about it a la Punk/Henry. Henry hit an awesome looking big right sending Orton from the top turnbuckle to the outside - great spot to turn the tide in Big Mark's favor. Then he followed it up with a nasty hold on the ring post and by standing on Orton's back, which looked super. The first World's Strongest Slam wasn't believable as a nearfall at all but I guess it was more about putting over Orton's resilience and raising doubt about Henry's ability to win the big one. The finish itself was great. Orton sold his knee like a champ and his final RKO attempt (could Orton hit the RKO was a sub-plot to the match btw) came off as a good resilient fighting champion moment. Henry says fuck that noise and puts him away. Very good match. I wouldn't go so far as to call it great but it's certainly good, and much closer to being great than it is to being less than good if you get what I'm saying.

Kelly Kelly v Beth Phoenix
I was going to skip this but I'm glad I didn't. Honestly I liked this better than any match on the card so far bar Orton/Henry. The event is in Beth's hometown and the crowd is hotter for this than they've been all night. Kelly did her athletic stuff and it didn't look too bad. Beth caught her, delivered a backbreaker and then SPANKED her and that was fucking awesome. Crowd popped for it and I marked. Superplex by Beth was impressive and I'm thinking Beth is definitely gonna win the title for the first time (couldn't remember the result) but Kelly catches her with a sunset flip rollup and the crowd HATES it. Decent divas match imo. Must be Kelly Kelly's best.

Alberto Del Rio v John Cena
MOTN so far. I can see an argument for Orton/Henry being better but I preferred this. They wrestled at a fantastic pace. The high tempo, high level of execution and hot crowd made for a really enjoyable WWE style main event. I don't get why Del Rio didn't target the arm more, especially because Cena sold it well when necessary and added some nice little touches like shaking it to get some feeling back into it and holding it after hitting a big move. I was hoping that would lead to Del Rio attacking it more but it never did. Whatever though, minor gripe. I'm a fan of that bump Del Rio likes to take through the ropes to the outside. He also flung himself into the ring post in gnarly fashion here. Made a sick sound. Loved the battle centered around the cross armbreaker with Cena doing everything in his power to not allow ADR to lock it in and eventually coming up with a sweet power counter. The finishing stretch was maybe missing something but all in all this delivered. If they top this at HiaC, which they should because Del Rio's a better worker now, it will be great.

CM Punk v Triple H
I'm gonna start by saying these two NEED to have another match at some point. This was well on its way to being GREAT before Miz and R-Truth came out and even with the outrageously overbooked finishing stretch it was still very good. Some of the sequences worked into the brawling were quite nifty, eg. Punk missing his signature turnbuckle knee only to connect with it moments later on the outside. I'm usually not a fan of fighting through the crowd but I thought they did it really well here. The stuff at the top of the ramp was good too. LOL @ Punk chucking those bags at HHH. I totally appreciated Trips going back to Punk's leg later in the match. He worked it over a bit early on with no real payoff and I thought they were going to forget about it but he went back to it and it produced Booker's most golden line of the night; "THE KNEE BONE CONNECTED TO THE ANKLE BONE!" He's such a fucking idiot. Punk is good at selling limb work and it's no different here. Two thumbs up from me for the way he limp climbed to the top rope for the elbow through the table. Sweet high spot there to put an exclamation point on what had been a really good brawl up to this point. Then the interferences happen and yeah, you know how it goes. I didn't hate that parts that made sense, which was all of it except for Truth breaking up a cover on HHH when the reason for him and Miz getting involved was to make Hunter lose. There's a great Pedigree nearfall in the middle of all the interferences. I guess the people who love this match liked the overbooking, those who disliked the match must hate it. I didn't mind it or enjoy it and I thought everything leading up to it was great so I'll happily call it a very good match, good enough to claim MOTN honors. I definitely want to see them work together again without all the shenanigans. 

Overall it was a decent show. The first half was garbage, the second half was enjoyable. Three good matches and an easy to watch divas match, that's better than some of the PPVs they've given us this year.

--------
May watch another random PPV tonight. Any suggestions?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Randy Orton v Mark Henry
> This is the main reason I decided to watch this PPV in the first place dawg. Right here dawg! Booker T dawg! Finally some quality. I thought Orton in particular was really good. Henry was Henry meaning he held up his end of the bargain but I feel looking back on this that I'd be more inclined to praise Orton's performance. Maybe that's because I'm used to Henry being a badass monster heel whereas I can't think of too many (or any?) babyface Orton showings on this level. His selling was good throughout and his offense had an extra urgency and aggressiveness to it. One thing I didn't love was how early and easily Orton got Henry off his feet. It's not a big deal or anything but I would've preferred them to go about it a la Punk/Henry. Henry hit an awesome looking big right sending Orton from the top turnbuckle to the outside - great spot to turn the tide in Big Mark's favor. Then he followed it up with a nasty hold on the ring post and by standing on Orton's back, which looked super. The first World's Strongest Slam wasn't believable as a nearfall at all but I guess it was more about putting over Orton's resilience and raising doubt about Henry's ability to win the big one. The finish itself was great. Orton sold his knee like a champ and his final RKO attempt (could Orton hit the RKO was a sub-plot to the match btw) came off as a good resilient fighting champion moment. Henry says fuck that noise and puts him away. Very good match. I wouldn't go so far as to call it great but it's certainly good, and much closer to being great than it is to being less than good if you get what I'm saying.



I'd say Henry was better in the match (act surprised), but I'm in complete agreement of Orton looking really bloody good. I shouldn't really praise somebody for making being in the ring with Henry look like a challenge (because if a wrestler made it look easy it'd mean they completely fucking sucked), but I thought Orton came off as a guy trying to keep his title against a legitimate unstoppable monster. Put Henry over really, really well the whole match. My favourite spot of the match may have been when Henry was on the floor and just decides to kick at Orton from the ground like a wounded grizzly being tranquillized. 


Don't think I watched anything else from that show other than the other two big matches. I liked Del Rio/Cena as a spectacle, and Del Rio went all bump-freak. HHH/Punk was a really good brawl until it turned into 2000 WCW.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> May watch another random PPV tonight. Any suggestions?


NOT HIAC 2009. Horrendous show, save for two matches. The 2010 event has started well, but I know Kane/Taker is at the end so not looking forward to that. Finishing that show tomorrow.

Watch MITB 2011.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still laugh at John Laurinaitis walking out with his phone and Kevin Nash coming from the crowd to bury Punk. Oh my goodness even :russo could do a better job booking that madness.

Getting ready to watch that 2/22/92 multi-man WCW tag match. Has anyone reviewed it before?

EDIT: Go watch No Mercy 2003, Saint Dick.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

What does the No Mercy '03 card look like?

I was thinking something a bit more recent.



Yeah1993 said:


> I'd say Henry was better in the match (act surprised), but I'm in complete agreement of Orton looking really bloody good. I shouldn't really praise somebody for making being in the ring with Henry look like a challenge (because if a wrestler made it look easy it'd mean they completely fucking sucked), but I thought Orton came off as a guy trying to keep his title against a legitimate unstoppable monster. Put Henry over really, really well the whole match. My favourite spot of the match may have been when Henry was on the floor and just decides to kick at Orton from the ground like a wounded grizzly being tranquillized.
> 
> 
> Don't think I watched anything else from that show other than the other two big matches. I liked Del Rio/Cena as a spectacle, and Del Rio went all bump-freak. HHH/Punk was a really good brawl until it turned into 2000 WCW.


(Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NM 2003 has Tajiri/Rey :mark: A-Train/Benoit, Stephanie/Vince (somehow this was good), Angle/Cena :mark:, an underrated Eddie/Big Show, and Lesnar/Undertaker which is either really good or really boring depending on who you ask. If you want something recent, then any second half 2011 PPV works. TLC was fun, and MITB is GOAT.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

See I don't see the "it was good until the craziness " in punk/hhh, it's not that good from the start to me. a weak brawl and then they hope over the barricade and so on, no thanks


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> NM 2003 has Tajiri/Rey :mark: A-Train/Benoit, Stephanie/Vince (somehow this was good), Angle/Cena :mark:, an underrated Eddie/Big Show, and Lesnar/Undertaker which is either really good or really boring depending on who you ask. If you want something recent, then any second half 2011 PPV works. TLC was fun, and MITB is GOAT.


Sweet. I'll get around to watching No Mercy at some point. Card looks awesome.

TLC 2011 looks fun indeed. The only match I've seen on that card is HHH/Nash which I want to watch again.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> See I don't see the "it was good until the craziness " in punk/hhh, it's not that good from the start to me. a weak brawl and then they hope over the barricade and so on, no thanks


What was weak about it? They did a good job bringing the hate and integrating spots between the brawling, all of which was done at a steady pace with more than adequate selling and execution.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

You could watch Extreme Rules 2010 so when I watch it a year from now we can compare thoughts. 

No but seriously I want to start watching that again soon. I'm busy tonight so I can't. Not a cop out...I'm actually doing something. STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT.



WCW tag - Write up from many years ago. Like, over three years ago. I hate myself for the bold part. Why wouldn't I love the mini-feuds in tag matches? Sack of shit.



> Arn Anderson/Bobby Eaton/Larry Zbyszko/Rick Rude v Sting/Barry Windham/Dustin Rhodes/Ricky Steamboat (WCW 22/2/92)
> --On paper this is the greatest tag team match of all time, not quite there when it comes down to it but it’s really a ball of a match. You have to love it when the babyfaces sense the crowd could have an explosion and go for the heels before the bell rings so they’ll be all hot and everything. It eventually waters down to Eaton vs. Windham but after Eaton takes a little they’re back to a little insane bulldozer segment. *I’m not too a big a fan of when multi-man tags all have their own separate little feuds and all that*, but when you have one big main one, namely Sting vs. Rude which the crowd is really fiery for, I can dig that a lot. Dustin Rhodes becomes the face in peril after a bit of cheating and stuff. DA working a body part over is always fun (hitting the leg this time), because they usually pull a fast one like Anderson faking a tag so Sting can come in and turn the ref’s attention onto himself while they all swarm Rhodes like a flock of Pikmin on a Red Bulborb. Hot tag was superb, Rhodes gets Steamer in while IN an atomic drop. Crowd loses their heads, I lose my head. Not taking this one off.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> You could watch Extreme Rules 2010 so when I watch it a year from now we can compare thoughts.
> 
> No but seriously I want to start watching that again soon. I'm busy tonight so I can't. Not a cop out...I'm actually doing something. STOP LOOKING AT ME LIKE THAT.


Been meaning to re-watch Cena/Batista from that event so I'll add it to the list.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Give me Rhodes vs Dibiase Jr WAY over that awful Punk vs Triple H match from NOC.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Couldn't disagree more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Felt like every other crappy Triple H match. Oh look, boring brawling. And then the overbooking to come with it + Punk losing. My stars. They're lucky they pulled the plug from Del Rio and gave Punk the strap or else they could have killed everyone at that time that wasn't Mark Henry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Nah dude.

Is HiaC this weekend?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep. Oddly a stacked card for what isn't usually implied to be a bigger show.

Cena vs Del Rio
Two HIAC matches spawning from actual grudges that will probably be feud enders
Shield vs Rhodes Dynasty in another incarnation
Big Show shenanigans probably


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah I'm looking forward to it. Don't care about Punk/Ryback/Heyman but I guess it could be decent. Cena/Del Rio and the tag match should be great. If Bryan/Orton doesn't deliver I will officially lose all faith in Orton. I simply cannot consider someone good if they have 6 lengthy matches with Daniel Bryan in the same year and fail to produce something great.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm only jazzed up for Cena vs Del Rio & Punk's match. Three way could surprise me, but ask me why I have a lack of interest this time around. Those slugs.

I expect the main event to be like usual - work is fine, but probably doesn't pop + shenanigans. Meh. It'll be good for both to move along following the match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Primer said:


> I'm only jazzed up for Cena vs Del Rio & Punk's match. Three way could surprise me, but ask me why I have a lack of interest this time around. Those slugs.
> 
> I expect the main event to be like usual - work is fine, but probably doesn't pop + shenanigans. Meh. It'll be good for both to move along following the match.


Wait, tag match is a three way? I didn't watch Raw. Assuming The Usos are in it. I don't mind them but that lowers my expectations quite a bit. Is it elimination or?

I'm hoping the Cell + Michaels can make it pop.

Is Ziggler on the card?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't think it's elimination. Straight up three way, but could be wrong.

No Dolph. But Real Americans will job to Los Matadores. And Langston is on the pre-show getting ready to win the IC championship. And people wonder why I hate large portions of this company. No reason to watch.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Real Americans on PPV is a win, doesn't matter if they job.

Right now I can't even tell you who the IC champion is...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't buy that b/c they probably won't even make the match a decent carry job. I'll remain hopeful however.

It's Axel. But nobody would know that b/c look how the championship is booked. D'oh. How are The Shield, Rhodes, & Danielson thriving among this?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

lol forgot he existed.

Random thought: have we had the MOTY already or will something top it in the next couple months? Personally I don't see anything surpassing Punk/Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Same here. That's perfection that won't be touched.

Answer to your question - for me at least - Punker vs Lesnar by miles. And this year has been chalk full of brilliant matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm so down for a re-match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, I'm glad it's 3 AM and I'm still awake. Trying not to be a lazy POS this week like I've been the last two, but it's my college's homecoming week and rivalry game week, and it's HIAC week. 

If I'm not asleep by the time I finish this paper, I'm gonna randomly watch one of my DVDs. Damn sleeping schedule. :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

But is it possible to finish your paper and be asleep at the same time?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The allure of wrestling has him conflicted.

+1 to the Punker vs Brock rematch. Would be too immense for words.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

My ideal WM30 card is HHH/Bryan, Cena/Taker and Punk/Lesnar II.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

What would the "major" championship matches even be if that goes down? I can't see the championship being in that pipedream Cena vs Undertaker match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Didn't think about that but they could find a way to make it work. Put the WWE title on HHH. The WHC doesn't really matter. Sandow/Rhodes maybe. HHH/Bryan is a must and I can't think of one good reason not to do Cena/Taker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't think Trips should be champion. Look bush league. Better scenario would be Danielson as champ walking in and retaining as he defeats Trips to finally end it.

Punk or Danielson seem like they could be the locks for the Rumble, so we'll see how that plays out in reality too.

I still don't buy Cena vs Taker happening. Feel like that was randomly spout off with no end game. Again, we'll see. I'm not much for predicting WM. Things can change so much until then. I go with the flow.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Primer said:


> Don't think Trips should be champion. Look bush league. Better scenario would be Danielson as champ walking in and retaining as he defeats Trips to finally end it.
> 
> Punk or Danielson seem like they could be the locks for the Rumble, so we'll see how that plays out in reality too.
> 
> I still don't buy Cena vs Taker happening. Feel like that was randomly spout off with no end game. Again, we'll see. I'm not much for predicting WM. Things can change so much until then. I go with the flow.


Bryan as champ works.

Cena/Taker is THE streak match that NEEDS to happen. Simple as that. I'm cool with Brock/Taker but only if I'm guaranteed Cena/Taker at 31.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Lesnar :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm all for Punk vs. Bork II, Bryan vs. Haitch, and Cena vs. Taker as the triple main event for Mania 30, but I think that Punk vs. Cena, Bryan vs. Haitch, and Taker vs. Lesnar (not Ryback please) is the route WWE will go with.

Then again, excluding 28 and 29 I'm pretty bad at predicting the main events. unk3


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I really need to rewatch Cesaro/Bryan but the only match I can find runs at 14 minutes. I'm sure it was closer to 20, but I really cannot be bothered to load multiple videos both on Youtube and the WWE App. 

Anyone have that match, in full, by any chance?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match went 13:25. If the video only includes the match and nothing else you're good.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Damn, okay. I could have sworn with the app it came to around 20 minutes. No matter, hopping on the video now, then.

EDIT: the video on YT is your time limit but with cuts. Sigh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> My ideal WM30 card is HHH/Bryan, Cena/Taker and Punk/Lesnar II.


Id love that, even though i cant say im bothered, but where would that leave Orton.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

After watching Raw, to hell with Trips/Show, I want Trips/Bryan NOW.

:HHH2 :bryan


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

***1/4 for Bryan/Ambrose
*** for Shield/Usos


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone else expecting Show to show up (HAHAHAH SHOW SHOWING UP IS THAT LIKE ME CAL'ING UP?) in his big truck to rip off the HIAC door or something to get in and "shockingly" screw Bryan because he's actually been working with HHH this whole time?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I will laugh my ass off like no other if Show turns heel. I mean, how many turns does one guy need in one year?

He started off the year as a heel.
He turned face heading into Mania to battle The Shield.
He turned heel again at Mania, costing his team the match.
He turned face upon his return.
And now he may turn heel this Sunday? :lmao

As I've mentioned in the past, the card I want for Mania changes daily (usually between a few possibilities), but this is what I want right now:

Taker/Cena
Punk/Lesnar for the WWE Title
Bryan/HHH

The reason I'd have Punk/Lesnar for the WWE Title is while Bryan/HHH could certainly use it, I feel that after last night the feud would be less about the title and more about Bryan defeating HHH after all the shit HHH has put him through. It wouldn't be about Bryan just winning the belt, but rather finally shutting HHH up and proving him wrong once and for all. Plus if they do the "control of the company" shtick, that's really all they need for it. Punk/Lesnar does fall into this similarly aside from the last sentence, but the reason I'd rather have it for the title is it gives Punk a decent chance at closing the show (which could be his final chance) and not to mention, it's been foreshadowed with Heyman saying he'd like to be there when Punk main events Mania for the title. Now while the Punk/Heyman feud does need to end, if they revisited it for Punk/Lesnar going into Mania, I'd be fine with that (as long as it does end once and for all there).

How I'd work it is Bryan defeats Orton at HIAC for the belt, at Survivor Series his team defeats Orton (with Punk on his team if Punk doesn't go on hiatus), and at TLC Bryan ends the feud once in for all in a TLC match. For RR, HHH brings in Brock to defeat Bryan, and because of his character, it could be played as a "best for business" deal as he knows the money Brock brings in and that type of guy should be the face of the WWE over Bryan. Ultimately HHH does screw Bryan in the match, leading to Lesnar taking the belt from Bryan, but Bryan still looking strong. And eventually Vince would get involved, support Bryan, and make the Bryan vs. HHH match for Mania which Bryan wins and they could add a power struggle in the mix as well.

Meanwhile, if Punk takes a break like it's being rumored, Punk returns at the Rumble, wins it, goes to Mania and defeats Brock. Simple as that. Then they could set up Punk/Bryan for Mania 31... or if they feel it's not a big enough match to warrant the main event for Mania, have them face at Summerslam for the belt, where Bryan defeats Punk. Then at some point have Bryan face Cena again and make him tap out (maybe that could be the Mania 31 match) leading to a Cena heel turn if he's not already heel by that point, which leads to a feud that Bryan wins and becomes the sole face of the company. Bryan marks win because he finally becomes the face of the company. Punk marks win because he gets to main event Mania and win the belt. Brock marks win because he gets to be WWE Champion and main event Mania again. And Cena haters win because he finally turns heel.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Bryan seems a lock after last night. Give me that and Taker/Cena and I don't care what else they do at Mania, I'll be happy.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If they do HHH/Bryan I hope it isn't at WM. I have no faith in THE GAME unless he's against Undertaker. Outside of Undertaker x 2 and Lesnar x 1 (SS), I can't think of a good match the guy has had since... 2009? Sheamus WM 26 was good but not something I'd exactly point to in defense of the guy .

But if they DO have to have it at WM, I hope its the complete opposite of the HHH/Punk match. Aka GOOD. No shitty HHH brawling please.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I fully expect the HIAC ending to be more of a cluster than Battleground. I don't expect Show to turn heel, because I do expect Show/Trips to happen. 

They could very well rush Bryan/Trips to Survivor Series if Orton wins the title Sunday, while turning Show. Then do Cena/Trips at Mania. fpalm if that happens.

Also, apparently there's "heat" on Trips for his promo at the end of Raw last night. :ti


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> What was weak about it? They did a good job bringing the hate and integrating spots between the brawling, all of which was done at a steady pace with more than adequate selling and execution.


Crashed right before I saw this, and just finish classes today, 

It was just a weak brawl to me, I didnt look into it as much as you with the hate. It was ok until they went to the outside and then it was meh, they went over the barrcaide in the mosh pit brawled and then once they went over to the stage area I took it off, just wasnt into it at all, and that take alot for me in a Punk match


I have been meaning to watch cesaro/bryan raw again. I have it as the "top raw match" this year, see where it ranks now


Yea Punk/lesnar is MOTY really dont see something topping it


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Spoiler: confirmed for this week's episode of main event on Raw, posting in spoiler tags incase you haven't seen it



GOLDUST VS ROLLINS :mark:


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'd like HHH/Bryan to happen at Elimination Chamber, just like Steve Austin vs HHH at No Way Out in 2001, with WM just around the corner. This can be bigger than Punk/HHH 2 years ago, no doubt about that


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flux, your post just have me an orgasm.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I aim to please


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Flux, your post just have me an orgasm.


Just _have _you an orgasm? Oh Cally...


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I cal'd up as usual.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That match is tomorrow :mark:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*WWE Smackdown 03/13/2003 - #1 Contender's Match for the WWE Tag Team Championships: Chris Benoit & Rhyno vs. Los Guerrero’s*

Benoit & Chavo start off the match, they trade wristlocks and Benoit takes him down, but Chavo gets a cross-armlock until Benoit makes the ropes. Eddie comes in, and so does Rhyno. Eddie takes him down with a drop-toehold and they jockey for position in the corner, but Rhyno shoves him down. Chavo dropkicks Rhyno and hits him with a snapmare and slugs him in the corner, and Eddie comes back in, but walks into a faceplant. Benoit knees him down and a snap suplex shim. Eddie fires back, but Rhyno attacks him from behind to stop any offense he had. He charges and hits elbow, allowing Chavo to come in with a backdrop suplex for two. Benoit connects with a backbreaker on him for two, and then a backdrop suplex for two. Chavo reverses which allows Benoit & Eddie to slug it out; Eddie gets a dropkick for two. Eddie unloads the chops, but Benoit takes him down with a Crossface. Eddie rolls away, but Benoit hangs on and makes him fight to the ropes instead. Chavo hammers on Benoit until Eddie calms him down and they proceed to double-teaming him. Chavo forearms him down and stomps on him. Benoit escapes and rolls him up for two, but Chavo clotheslines him down again. Eddie slingshots in for two, and grabs an armbar. Chavo keeps working Benoit over, but he walks into another crossface attempt. He makes the ropes and bails out of the ring, Benoit follows with the middle rope missile dive, and now everyone is fighting on the floor as we go to a commercial. Chavo trying his own Crossface on Benoit, but Rhyno tags in with a belly-to-belly for two. Back to the chinlock as Rhyno talks some trash to Chavo at the same time. Chavo escapes and gets a missile dropkick and it’s a double-count. Benoit overpowers Eddie and gets a snap suplex. Eddie escapes a tilt-a-whirl and connects with a backdrop suplex, and a rana. He heads top and gets chopped down by Benoit, Benoit follows him up and connects with a Powerbombs off the top for two :mark: but Rhyno makes the save as Eddie cradles Benoit for two. Chavo dumps Rhyno and Benoit sends Eddie over the top the hard way, leaving Chavo and Benoit. Dropkick from Chavo and he hammers away in the corner, but gets caught with a crossface. Eddie breaks it up with a frog splash, but Rhyno comes in with the GORE! Powerbomb puts both Chavo & Rhyno on the floor, and Benoit gets two on Eddie. Benoit hits the 3 Germans, but Eddie switches to a vertical suplex series of his own, Benoit then counters the 3rd one into a Crossface. Eddie counters to go-behind, but Benoit counters that and suplexes him, suddenly Team Angle runs in for the DQ by hitting both men with the belts. So fuckin' good, I footage I have even shows what happen when SD is on a commercial. Might have to upload it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main Event match legit brings a tear to my eye. And a mess in my pants. Ah, now it's weird. That's how I like it.

I'm with Cal on the standpoint of how I don't personally care for Triple H to work WM against Danielson, however, I'll take it for the magnitude of what it would mean. Danielson would OBVIOUSLY win _(I am confident about that or else LOL @ so much wrong)_ & getting a win over Triple H, clean, @ WM would mean a whole heck of a lot. While Triple H means not much to me, in WWE kayfabe terms, he's a big deal. I can't neglect the importance that would hold for Danielson in terms of 100% sheer match quality. On the plus side, seeing Danielson's theory _(aka fact)_ of how he tends to always bring out the best in people come to light with Triple H of all people would be a sight I'd like to check out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OK I know this is HHH but there's no way he'd allow himself to go over Bryan at Mania, is there? I just can't imagine a human being making such a mentally defective decision at a time like that. 'Cal'ing Up' should be changed to 'Pulling a Helmsley' if Trip screws this up to that degree. Or we could call it '*TRIP*PING UP.' HA! You may burst out in laughter now. you are welcome.

Let me just say I love that Goldust can randomly come into the company and everyone immediately realises he should be given good air time because of how fucking great he is. Why do the WWE keep letting him slip away, anyway? FFS man I'm not expecting a mega push but at least keep him employed and regularly wrestling. You are doing the same with R-Truth and Wade Barrett. Somebody good is right there. Oh hey my mind shifted to Chris Masters again.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well HHH turned the HOTTEST WRESTLING ANGLE in like, a decade at least into a feud about himself and Nash, AND beat the guy who was the hottest thing in the company and the reason for the angle. So I wouldn't put it above HHH to beat Bryan.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Main Event match legit brings a tear to my eye. And a mess in my pants. Ah, now it's weird. That's how I like it.
> 
> I'm with Cal on the standpoint of how I don't personally care for Triple H to work WM against Danielson, however, I'll take it for the magnitude of what it would mean. Danielson would OBVIOUSLY win _(I am confident about that or else LOL @ so much wrong)_ & getting a win over Triple H, clean, @ WM would mean a whole heck of a lot. While Triple H means not much to me, in WWE kayfabe terms, he's a big deal. I can't neglect the importance that would hold for Danielson in terms of 100% sheer match quality. On the plus side, seeing Danielson's theory _(aka fact)_ of how he tends to always bring out the best in people come to light with Triple H of all people would be a sight I'd like to check out.




I'm pretty much in 100% agreement with what you said. If I was going on sheer match quality, I'd MUCH prefer to see Daniel Bryan face off with Punk, Taker, Brock, or even Cena again at Mania. Put him in the ring with any of those guys in a Mania main event, and it's a guarunteed wrestling classic. I get goosebumps just thinking about it. However, how the story is shaping up, it looks like Bryan vs Trips makes the most sense, with Bryan going over, obviously, hopefully. That match doesn't do much for me on paper, but then again, this is Daniel Bryan we are talking about. Him winning against Trips on that stage would be huge, but if he puts on a classic match with Hunter while doing it? Yea, he'd be a made guy for the rest of his life, no matter the booking shens he has to go through, A la CM Punk right now. I think that's an underrated aspect of what "made" Punk at MitB. Yea beating Cena clean and winning the title was absolutely huge and would have been a giant boost regardless. But the fact that he put on what many people believe is an all time classic, 5-Star match, with Cena, when Cena hadn't had a classic in a while, is what really put the stamp on Punk as the "Best in the World".

The fact of the matter is, WWE is really hurting for star power right now. Short of ending the Streak and beating Undertaker at Mania, the next biggest thing would have to be taking down Hunter clean and remaining/becoming WWE champ, in WWE universe terms.

I just hope someday, maybe as soon as WM 31, we get to see Bryan vs Punk for the WWE title in the Main Event. That might cause me to explode. For now, ill settle for another killer streak match, whether it's vs Brock or the Cena dream scenario, and Bryan finally getting his moment on the mountaintop. That's really the only hope I have for this years event.

I do happen to find it incredibly counter productive that the WWE is supposed to be "desperate for a new star" right now, and instead of stacking NoC and Battleground with the best cards possible and giving Bryan the strongest booking possible, they went the complete opposite way. Now the historically atrocious buy rate Battleground did will fall on Bryan I'm sure, in there eyes. There seems to be a complete lack of patience with stories and builds these days, but what do I know.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rewatching usos/shield from last night, its pretty good a tad better than their great mitb match. The commentary is GOLD with GOLDUST and Cody here, most enjoyable listen of cole/lawler/jbl in a while. During the ziggler/orton match it honestly sounded exactly like wwe 13, I'm not even joking how lifeless it sounded


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> OK I know this is HHH but there's no way he'd allow himself to go over Bryan at Mania, is there? I just can't imagine a human being making such a mentally defective decision at a time like that. 'Cal'ing Up' should be changed to 'Pulling a Helmsley' if Trip screws this up to that degree. Or we could call it '*TRIP*PING UP.' HA! You may burst out in laughter now. you are welcome.
> 
> Let me just say I love that Goldust can randomly come into the company and everyone immediately realises he should be given good air time because of how fucking great he is. Why do the WWE keep letting him slip away, anyway? FFS man I'm not expecting a mega push but at least keep him employed and regularly wrestling. You are doing the same with R-Truth and Wade Barrett. Somebody good is right there. Oh hey my mind shifted to Chris Masters again.





Callamus said:


> Well HHH turned the HOTTEST WRESTLING ANGLE in like, a decade at least into a feud about himself and Nash, AND beat the guy who was the hottest thing in the company and the reason for the angle. So I wouldn't put it above HHH to beat Bryan.


Cal's fact is a scary thought. But lets hope. Although hope is killing us. It needs to be our dream to become hopeless. Therefore, we'd know Danielson winning would be a 100% lock. Tripping up. Absolutely genius.

oh and GOLDUST + MASTERS. It could be like 2010 all over again if the latter should return. Again, being hopeless is my only hope.



Cactus Jack said:


> I do happen to find it incredibly counter productive that the WWE is supposed to be "desperate for a new star" right now, and instead of stacking NoC and Battleground with the best cards possible and giving Bryan the strongest booking possible, they went the complete opposite way. Now the historically atrocious buy rate Battleground did will fall on Bryan I'm sure, in there eyes. There seems to be a complete lack of patience with stories and builds these days, but what do I know.


I know, right? Really now. Following SummerSlam the potential for Danielson's struggles were high. Heck, they already hit that level in terms of heading to SummerSlam _(Gauntlet comes to mind + Barrett matches)_ Then following it started off well. He was getting assaulted at every turn, yada yada. I liked that. Then NOC happened and he basically won clean. Thwarted Orton on the first try and it basically killed the angle. Danielson vs The Authority in general is still working, but the expected result to come from it went - as you said - the opposite way. Now all we have to hope for is the continued rise of Danielson and that's about it. At least this has made a lot start to dig Big Show & the Rhodes' family a lot more than it seemed to be earlier this year. All those guys deserved praise throughout their careers.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea the bryan/orton feud has kinda fallen flat since NOC


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bryan/Orton feud sucked the moment Orton was included in it 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not too surprised considering it's easy to forget Orton is in the middle of it. I thought this was going to be a strong push for him. All it feels like is a decent run as a heel over as a face & eternal second fiddle to Trips. At least he's watchable again. That's all I care for. Knew I'd have to see Triple H up and down once this angle began.

on a new subject: Cena in six days. :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the cash-in I'll give him that

Its actually funny how second fiddled and lost in the shuffle he truly is in this whole feud. Agreed his matches are better worked as a Heel. No Orton marks I'm not bashing him

Only thing I fear is Cena/ADR will be a punk/y2j payback reincarnation, as in the ring rust may affect Cena a bit, but I dont think it will affect him that much with his moveset as he is more grounded than Punk


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm not so sure of that. Punker vs Jericho was more about a story that fell flat & a mentality to make it a literal "finisher fest" which made it crappy. Cena vs Del Rio being moderately competent would immediately put it above the Payback match. Del Rio is such a boss I expect him to create something special. His chemistry with John-boy is good more than 90% of the time too. I'm excited.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Hell in a Cell 2010​*
Daniel Bryan vs The Miz vs John Morrison - Submissions Count Anywhere - US Title - ****1/4*
Randy Orton vs Sheamus - Hell in a Cell Match - WWE Title - ****1/2
*Edge vs Jack Swagger - ***1/4*
Wade Barrett vs John Cena ****1/4*
Michelle McCool vs Natalya - Divas Title - **1/2*
Kane vs The Undertaker - Hell in a Cell - World Title - *DUD*

First couple matches were good. Really liked Orton/Sheamus. Edge/Swagger was thrown together after Edge interrupted a Del Rio promo (part of Edge's fight against all things stupid fpalm). Swagger and Del Rio attack Edge (to ZERO heat) and the Anonymous GM (who had tons of heat) set up the match. 

Barrett/Cena was pretty good, I thought, but had some dragging points. Commentary was terrible, on the whole show actually, but all the Cena dick sucking and anti-Barrett was just too much. 

Kane/Taker was so disappointing. Can't believe I wanted to turn off a Taker match. Oh well.

WWE title match was second on the card. :ti


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I guess I'm remembering the entire punk/y2j payback match atm 

Cena/ADR should be good, the tag, whc and HIAC matches should all be atleast ok at this point


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's why gimmick PPVs are awful. WWE Championship matches have even opened up a PPV before.

but that show is good except for Undertaker vs Kane - sadly. Opener is great as is Cena vs Barrett. Really like Orton vs Sheamus too. Edge vs Swagger is underrated. But it's Jack Swagger. Big shock. Most underrated on the whole roster.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I have issues with Swagger/Edge. Thought Edge did well to sell the attack from Del Rio and Swagger early on, and liked what Swagger did to target the abdomen. But then out of nowhere Swagger just decides to go for the Ankle Lock. I get that's his finishing submission, but to just abandon the work you've been doing? 

Oh yeah, Triple Threat Submission match was a lot of fun. Thought Miz did really well.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I remember orton/sheamus being good

Speaking of Miz I was watching some of miz/lawler ec 11 before I crashed and it was honestly headed to being a top 3 miz match ( I know its not that hard)

Watching Cesaro/Bryan raw


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HIAC 2010:

Barrett/Cena- ***3/4
Orton/Sheamus- ***1/4
Taker/Kane- 1/2*

Taker/Kane


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wasn't part of the logic - if enough to critique - b/c of Edge's ruptured Achilles tendon? Almost certain that was pointed out on commentary as a decent enough out for Swagger to ravage Edge following the beatdown and then go into his normal routine of destroying the ankle.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah, it was pointed out about Edge's Achilles injury, but I'm pretty sure that was in regards to something else Swagger did. Commentary was so shitty, but a lot of what was said is blacked out. 

Swagger's Gut Wrench counter of the Spear was good. Like a lot of what he does.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt Striker was such a twonk on that show. I mean more than usual. 

_"Lets go Cena from the women & children. And Cena sucks coming from the guys."_

Oh piss off.

Indeed. Swagger vs Edge rematch following the PPV was good too. Now I'm wanting to pop this show in. Have so much fun with WWE 2010.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> That's why gimmick PPVs are awful. WWE Championship matches have even opened up a PPV before.
> 
> but that show is good except for Undertaker vs Kane - sadly. Opener is great as is Cena vs Barrett. Really like Orton vs Sheamus too. Edge vs Swagger is underrated. But it's Jack Swagger. Big shock. Most underrated on the whole roster.


You're on a roll with posting things I happen to agree wholeheartedly with.

Gimmick PPV's need to die a slow, painful death. TLC and HIAC especially come to mind. The latter some how managed to take the greatest gimmick match of all time, a Hell in a Cell match, and turn it into utter shit. I don't even want to talk about it, it makes me so angry. I can't decide whether I'd prefer MitB to return to WrestleMania or stay as it's own event. On the whole, it has been a pretty solid event since it's inception, and having the 2 ladder matches spread out over the show with 1 Main event and 1-2 other Midcard matches seems to work. 


Elimination Chamber? Eh, see below,
Extreme Rules? Would be fine if it was the only PPV with that gimmick.
Hell in a Cell? Die die die
TLC? Die die die
MitB? Can stay, I guess. Or maybe not. Fuck I don't know
Survivor Series? Needs to be rebuilt and have added emphasis on elimination tags with 1 Elimination Chamber match, winner gets to choose a match for either the WHC or WWE championship at the Royal Rumble
Royal Rumble- needs to have more emphasis placed on it, winner of the rumble can choose a match for either the WHC or WWE championship at WM

Basically, the PPV scheduled should be:
Royal Rumble
WrestleMania
MitB
Surmmerslam
Survivor Series

With non gimmick events like No Mercy, Armageddon, Judgement Day, No Way Out, etc filling in the other dates. Maybe they could move Surivor Series to the spring/early summer, and have the winner of the EC match have a WHC/WWE title shot at Summerslam, the way KotR used to be.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Matt Striker is the biggest piece of shit ever, its honestly painful watching some 09-10 back


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just went back and double checked. Swagger did target the ankle a little very early in the match, which is where Striker mentioned Edge's Achilles injury. Then the midsection work came. 

I distinctly remember that line about the Let's Go Cena/Cena Sucks chants. Then Lawler followed it up with "Your point?" Um, the point is that the kids and girls like him and the guys don't.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MITB can remain, although I 100% see the appeal it has being on the Mania card. PPV is so consistent since the inception it would kind of be a crime to remove it, tbhayley. It's the beef up show to lead into SummerSlam & I like that.

I've liked most of the TLC PPVs, but that one can go away along with the rest. Ruins the fun of having the gimmicks pop up at more sporadic moments to make the emphasis on the matches heightened. Knowing the Chamber comes before WM each year is such a bore. I don't have fun with those matches much anymore. 2011 makes me sound like a hypocrite b/c I dug both, but I mean that in terms of hype. I don't care until I see the match happen. There's no sufficent drama to have an invested interest. It's all very "oh, here comes the Elimination Chamber match next." You can sub that out for any other gimmicks around. Hell in Cell being regulated to a PPV in October each year is the biggest offender.

I like to have Survivor Series return to its former glory. That's forever a pipe dream. WWE would be smart to make it mostly elimination matches again, tbf. It would be a good way to lighten the load for say one of the championships - or both - and have those matches play a part in building up feuds among those bigger belts. If it was done back in the day, why can't it be done now? All in consideration of how this would lower the fact of repeat booking with TV having to be filled out week after week. Fun & interesting elimination matches would make that PPV a completely different staple to WWE's advantage as it once was. Last year's "midcard" elimination match, for example, was great. Gave a lot good exposure.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> Matt Striker is the biggest piece of shit ever, its honestly painful watching some 09-10 back


Quoted for the truth.

He almost single handedly ruined HBK vs Taker at WM26 for me. Honest. It was awful. I actually like the match at 26 better than 25, but I've probably watched it half as much because of that awful, awful, commentary.

Stryker and Zybysko are the 2 worst color guys in the history of our sport. Seriously. They make JBL, Tazz, and Booker look like Bobby Heenan by comparison.

On a side note, I actually didn't mind the old Cole/Tazz team from the early 2000s Smackdown. Cole wasn't nearly as obnoxious as he is now, and he actually made an attempt to call the match with Tazz helping out with move names and explaining the psychology of what was going on.

Now Cole hardly ever talks about the match, he just rambles on an on about some storyline while JBL argues with him. When did WWE decide that it was pleasant to listen to 2 grown men argue about a storyline instead of calling a match? I swear, not 1 match goes by without some argument breaking out between the 2 of them. It makes my blood pressure rise. JR and Lawler would do it every once in a blue moon, but they did it in a highly entertaining way where it was obvious they were just teasing each other. Cole and heel JBL need to die. JBL was much better when he was putting everyone over and not just trying to heel it up.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

If you think Cole is bad now, you should go back to early 2011. Holy fuck, he was sooooooo unbearable. Honestly the worst time for an announcer EVER.

My problem with JBL is that he always repeats the same shit. It's been that way since way back but he's great when putting somebody over... or when hating on a wrestler. Seeing him mock The Miz in Smackdown in 2006-2007 is always hilarious.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Kevin Dunn is behind part of this. Guy doesn't give a shit about wrestling, and probably only wants "stories" talked about. The first matches that happen on Raw are always the same. The commentators discuss (well, yell, usually) what happened in the opening promo and completely ignore what's happening in the ring.

Jerry Lawler has been a bad joke machine pretty much since he turned face in late 2005. Last 5-6 years have been so shitty, though. Triple H making Cole his bitch in these interviews is just gold.

Oh yeah, late 2010-early 2011 Cole was REALLY shitty. Then HE WON AT WRESTLEMANIA AND THEY CONTINUED FEUDING FOR ANOTHER TWO MONTHS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cole & Tazz combo during the amazing days of Smackdown was a great team. Did their jobs very well with about every angle & every worker.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea striker is really the worst, its what wwe think all of us on da internet are, I cant believe ppl actually were mad when he got fired


Ahhhh This may be a unpopular opinion but Cole actually doesn't bother me and hasnt even in his early 2011, The "burying Bryan" was kinda annoying but I could deal, Lawler's terribleness is finally hitting me and hitting me hard, its soo life-less. JBL has kinda rejuvenated himself with the "heel best for business stuff" but still


I actually like Tazz but Ive never watched TNA so that may be why


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> If you think Cole is bad now, you should go back to early 2011. Holy fuck, he was sooooooo unbearable. Honestly the worst time for an announcer EVER.
> 
> My problem with JBL is that he always repeats the same shit. It's been that way since way back but he's great when putting somebody over... or when hating on a wrestler. Seeing him mock The Miz in Smackdown in 2006-2007 is always hilarious.


Oh dude believe me, I know. I own the Best of Raw/Smackdown 2011 and 2012 sets, plus I was watching pretty much every week back then anyways. That 2011 set is awesome, but damn, I come so close to having to mute it at times it ain't even funny. Especially any time Miz was involved, yeeeesh:gun:


Does anyone have a real answer as to why JR isn't calling matches weekly and hasn't been for a while? I know he's been fired/retired now, but even before that, he hasn't been on Raw in years and only did Mania 28 as a favor to Undertaker/Trips. There isn't even a debate, JR is the best commentator EVER, why wouldn't you want that guy calling all the matches possible while he is able?

And if JR isn't available, why don't they use Joey Styles? I've heard him on the Flair/Trips cage match and the Foley/Edge match paired with a color guy, and he was absolutely terrific. He was good in ECW too, but he was just terrific in those two matches. Am I the only one who likes this guy?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Joey Styles is almost as good as JR IMO. The new Cole is fine, I feel he does big moments well, such as the Lesnar return, Lesnar/cena match, and the Orton Cash in this year. 

BTW- anyone else notice that JBL has a HUGE voice crack after trips pedigrees Bryan at Summerslam? So funny


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

A Worst of Commentary discussion cannot go on without mention of one Gabe Sapolsky. You can talk about the best commentator being Jim Ross or Gordon Solie or Lance Russell or whoever else; that's discussion. I highly doubt anybody could argue against the former Mr. Chris Lovey being the all time shitty commentator of forever. If you have found a worse commentator please do not show them to me. 

I cannot stand Joey Styles any more, fwiw. Somewhere last year he started annoying the piss out of me. I watched some 1993 ECW and he was fucking terrible. That didn't help, I'm guessing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Since commentary/commentators is a hot button atm, Scott Stanford was the man on commentary. One of those lads who had a lot of fun behind the booth and you could tell. Not to mention he came off more knowledgeable than the average commentator too. Josh Matthews tried giving him grief for his factoids over and over which made zero sense b/c Stanford was actually incorporating info about wrestling behind the product. Matthews was too busy trying to get in his topical pop culture references that no one cared about. Ugh.

That in a nutshell is what is wrong with WWE commentary for the majority. Also, Alex Riley > most others behind the booth today. Only behind Regal b/c lets face it, that stuttering Englishman is a hoot.

:lmao @ Gabe. I wonder how many times Dave Prazak rolled his eyes as they were doing commentary together.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Matt Striker is awesome. So is Joey Styles.

EDIT: Forgot to also mention WCW Mike Tenay. Now that's a commentator.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Matt Striker has never been awesome. Joey Styles sucks. Used to like him, but I'm so done with that guy.

Mike Tenay in WCW was fine b/c he didn't get to talk. He said a random fact, shut up, and went in a circle. He went to TNA to become a "lead" guy and it exposed him to holy high heavens.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I didn't think Striker was bad, but maybe that's because I didn't watch much WWECW. :side:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I liked Striker at one point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Fucking Josh Mathews. Why does that dickhead still have a job (does he?)? Why did he EVER get a job there? At least a guy lie Michael Cole has been involved in...stuff. Josh Mathews has literally not ever done anything worth noting off of the top of my head. How do you not be entertaining, ever? And still keep your job where you are? That almost takes talent. 



The Primer said:


> :lmao @ Gabe. I wonder how many times Dave Prazak rolled his eyes as they were doing commentary together.


I get so relieved when CM Punk gets put on commentary on parts of a show so he can take shots at Gabe and pretty much everything else. 'Where's Lucy who took Lucy?' is better than 'DANGEROUS!!' 'SCREW SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT' and all of Gabe's other smarky webzcrowd bullshit he thinks is cool and clever. Matt Striker must have looked up to him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Go watch a ton from 2008/2009 right now. Missing out on a lot of good stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> I didn't think Striker was bad, but maybe that's because I didn't watch much WWECW. :side:



You just need to watch WrestleMania 26 man, he should be arrested and charged with assault for what he did to that pay per view. It was a damn good event too, but I can't stand watching it, solely because of it.

Joey Styles in 1993-1996 ECW = crap

Styles when he called WWE matches with Lawler = great.
Styles when he called ECW with Tazz= good to great


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Fucking Josh Mathews. Why does that dickhead still have a job (does he?)? Why did he EVER get a job there? At least a guy lie Michael Cole has been involved in...stuff. Josh Mathews has literally not ever done anything worth noting off of the top of my head. How do you not be entertaining, ever? And still keep your job where you are? That almost takes talent.
> 
> 
> 
> I get so relieved when CM Punk gets put on commentary on parts of a show so he can take shots at Gabe and pretty much everything else. 'Where's Lucy who took Lucy?' is better than 'DANGEROUS!!' 'SCREW SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT' and all of Gabe's other smarky webzcrowd bullshit he thinks is cool and clever. Matt Striker must have looked up to him.


They felt bad that he got dumped on their reality show + he's too small to be signed as a wrestler so they kept him. Idk. Only a guess.

"NO LIMITATIONS" is another god awful phrase of his. Why isn't Punk on commentary everywhere? idc if he's a big star for WWE. They're better off with him on commentary. ROH sure as heck was. Jack Evans being dubbed as _"Flippy McGillicutty"_. Awesome.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Matt striker was WOAT. Remember the 2011 rumble? When he was screaming yelling I'm marking out bro! I heard he got bitched at for that. 

Joey styles wasn't bad, but wasn't really good either. 

JR is GOAT 

King with JR was HILARIOUS. Everyone go watch Taker/Flair from WM 19. THE EXCUSES KING MAKES FOR TAKER ARE HILARIOUS! Now King is awful. 

Cole, is whatever to me, I personally think he gets too much hate. 

Bobby the Brain heanen is GOAT color announcer. Nothing will beat the HBK/ Jannety segment.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cole is the best commentator currently.

#NW: TLC 2011


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea nice call by Cody, Stanford was the man. He actually is a sportscaster for the local news in my area, he was hilarious


Yea fucking hate Josh Matthews too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If that stands for never watch, then again, I'm surprised by those who dislike the show. I kind of love it. Other than Show vs Henry - although injury is why that was crappy. Cash in made up for it.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cole was really bad when he was an uber-obnoxious twat a few years back. He's fine now.

I don't recall Striker's commentary at WM26 but I'll take your word for it.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

CM Punk Commentary is all I need:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cole isn't the best because he's good, it's because everybody else fuckin sucks.



The Primer said:


> If that stands for never watch, then again, I'm surprised by those who dislike the show. I kind of love it. Other than Show vs Henry - although injury is why that was crappy. Cash in made up for it.


Stands for now watching.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Got ya.

I think it's a show chalk full with some goodies. The only good Barrett vs Orton match happens on there. That's praise worthy. Ziggler vs Ryder is really good imo. Then there's the excellent main event.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I have a three hour night class tomorrow (no idea why I didn't drop it), and since the professor only teaches from the textbook, I think I'm actually gonna read from the textbook for like...the third time this year and just watch a PPV the whole class.

Any suggestions?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

This crowd is ELECTRIC. Ziggler/Ryder was a dope opener.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

yea ziggler makes Ryder look like a million bucks in that match, hot hot crowd too


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> I have a three hour night class tomorrow (no idea why I didn't drop it), and since the professor only teaches from the textbook, I think I'm actually gonna read from the textbook for like...the third time this year and just watch a PPV the whole class.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Survivor Series 2010.

You get yourself a show with mostly strong matches & some wrestlecrap too. Get the best of both worlds.



Saint Dick said:


> This crowd is ELECTRIC. Ziggler/Ryder was a dope opener.


(Y)

That was pop of the night next to anything else Punk did. Crowd was so hot for Ryder.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> I have a three hour night class tomorrow (no idea why I didn't drop it), and since the professor only teaches from the textbook, I think I'm actually gonna read from the textbook for like...the third time this year and just watch a PPV the whole class.
> 
> Any suggestions?


Summerslam 2001?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Do you school work and listen to the professor or it will hurt you come test time, from experience :ziggler1


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

It's a fine arts class and the professor basically reads from the pages of the textbook. I'm assuming I aced my midterm, so I'm hoping that class isn't too bad tomorrow.

Hm...haven't seen Survivor Series 2010 since it aired. I remember really liking the undercard too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undercard is BOSS.

Danielson vs Dibiase Jr, Sheamus vs Morrison, Dolph vs Kaval, & Team Mysterio vs Team Del Rio. 

Radical stuff all around.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is there a better tables match than Orton/Barrett? I can't think of one off the top of my head. So far this show owns.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't remember the Barrett/Orton tables match well enough (should re-watch it as Barrett/Orton put together their best matches around that time), but the Sandow/Sheamus one from Raw earlier this year was really good.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Never saw that. I'd be shocked if it's as good as Orton/Barrett though and that's coming from a guy who doesn't care about Orton or Barrett.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good to see you're digging the show. 

Sheamus vs Sandow was good. Cena has had some fun ones himself. Gimmick is usually fun for the majority. 

Best overall was the original with Dudleys vs Hardys. That's tag, I know, but still remains on top.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Spoiler



Rollins vs goldie only goes 5 minutes


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tlc 11 will be watched again this weekend


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well that spoiler didn't work. Ah nuts.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, he didn't spoil the match at least.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at the failed spoilers.

Last year had a good tag tables match between Rhodes Scholars and Mysterio/Cara. I think there was a really fun one too at SvS 2002. Orton/Barrett was good though. I also kinda liked Henry/Big Show from that event. It was short and kind of an anti-climatic ending to the #2 GOAT WHC title reign, but I remember it being fun. Main event is king.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about Rhodes vs Show being good too. See, that gimmick is nothing short of fun when the match isn't ass. Most off the top of my head have seemed to work.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sorry guys :lol. 

Thoughts on TLC 2010? I've seen Morrison/Sheamus but is the rest fun?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I personally say so. MOTN is def the match you listed by a country mile, but it's another fun event.

Other ladder match is entertaining and I may be the only guy left who dug the TLC match. One of the few who liked Orton vs Miz too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Saint Dick said:


> Never saw that. I'd be shocked if it's as good as Orton/Barrett though and that's coming from a guy who doesn't care about Orton or Barrett.


You're talking about TLC 2011, right? I remember that one being much better than it had any right being. Specially compared to the shitty 2010 matches. But their best match is the No DQ one from Smackdown 3/2/2012.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Alright may check it out eventually, lord knows I gotta get through this damn 2002 project . Still working on RR 2002 review BTW, only 2 matches in and two ok matches, not expecting much from Vince/Flair and Rock/Jericho is meh. Never seen the rumble though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Rock is :mark:


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

My bro is correct, Jericho/Rock will leave more then satisfied :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ironic how we just talked about it too. Now we're putting it over again.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That was a LONG time ago, when thought Cena vs Orton was a classic feud :lol. Will most likely be different now. 

This troll thread is awesome :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Primer said:


> Ironic how we just talked about it too. Now we're putting it over again.


:lmao are you guys in the same house on two different computers


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Welcome to the modern age. Would be hell if we had to share for two dudes in their 20's.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

eww, I remember sharing a computer with my brother, those were the dark ages


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fuck my older bro, nah JK Orton lover he is


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I'll be checking out full Survivor Series events after HIAC during the buildup. Starting HIAC 2011 in a bit, continuing my watch of the HIAC events. 2010 had four good matches, then two shitters. Still better than the 2009 event, which had two good matches, neither of which were HIAC matches. fpalm Punk/Taker was the only "good" cell match on that card. 

2011 should be good, with two pretty good cell matches on that show, I think. That poster though :lmao


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

is henry/orton HIAC any good ?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rock/Jericho RR 2002 was really good. Jericho put on a cowardly heel performance of a lifetime. Does anyone besides Cal and I enjoy Jericho/Austin from NWO 2002? One of two good matches (other being Edge/Regal) on an otherwise horrible PPV.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey guys, should I continue the Del Rio project tonight (_I'm on August 2011_), or go back and watch matches from the past Hell in a Cell PPVs?

-------------------

On the announcers topic, HOLY FUCK Matt Striker was so annoying. He announces a shit ton throughout 2010 and it's so unbearable. He'll think he's coming off as really smart and calling things no one else notices, but NO ONE CARED. I can only imagine how annoyed the other announcers could've been.



redskins25 said:


> Only thing I fear is Cena/ADR will be a punk/y2j payback reincarnation, as in the ring rust may affect Cena a bit, but I dont think it will affect him that much with his moveset as he is more grounded than Punk


The good thing about this is that I don't think they'll let that happen because I think Del Rio's gonna be in control for a good while doing his armwork. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it playing out. 




Saint Dick said:


> Is there a better tables match than Orton/Barrett? I can't think of one off the top of my head. So far this show owns.


Haven't seen that one yet but I'm a big fan of Sheamus/Kofi from Extreme Rules 2011, which no one else brought up of course. 



smitty915 said:


> Sorry guys :lol.
> 
> Thoughts on TLC 2010? I've seen Morrison/Sheamus but is the rest fun?


The TLC match for the World Title is pretty average. Heard good things about Cena/Barrett though.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Continue.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

contiune or do HIAC 2011 so I know if orton/henry is good

I'm watching orton/miz tlc 10 and enjoying it alot actually. Orton's lists of good- bad matches vary soo much, it honestly depends on the day. :lmao had a convo on the phone with my big bro, he is still obessed with Orton and actualy thinks he should me in the main event of mania.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> The good thing about this is that I don't think they'll let that happen because I think Del Rio's gonna be in control for a good while doing his armwork. I could be wrong, but that's how I see it playing out.


Totally. I expect this to be along the lines of Cena/Jericho from Survivor Series 2008 when Cena returned. Should be good. 



> contiune or do HIAC 2011 so I know if orton/henry is good


I just started HIAC 2011. Christian/Sheamus is a super fun opener. Looking forward to Henry/Orton. This Henry promo :lmao :lmao

Oh Lord, I forgot about the Sin Cara ***** vs Sin Cara Azul feud. :ti


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

redskins25 said:


> contiune or do HIAC 2011 so I know if orton/henry is good
> 
> I'm watching orton/miz tlc 10 and enjoying it alot actually. Orton's lists of good- bad matches vary soo much, it honestly depends on the day. :lmao had a convo on the phone with my big bro, he is still obessed with Orton and actualy thinks he should me in the main event of mania.


FWIW, I think that C2D has Henry/Orton HIAC at 3 1/2 stars.

Really wish the Henry/Orton NOC result didn't get ruined for me. I have a gut feeling that's 
the type of match I'd like more if I didn't know the result. We shall see.


Regarding Del Rio/Cena, they're really playing up the drama, because they showed a Youtube video of Del Rio doing his submission move, shortly before they played the Cena elbow recovery videos.

Is the three-way tag gonna be inside of a cell this Sunday?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah and I have the NoC match at ★★★¾.

Smackdown main event looks to be great this week. :mark:



Spoiler: .



Shield + Orton vs Runnels, Bryan + Biggie


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

tag match right ? no I dont think soo

Ive hear alot of ppl have the NOC>HIAC


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Yeah and I have the NoC match at ★★★¾.
> 
> Smackdown main event looks to be great this week. :mark:
> 
> ...


Who is the last guy ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Good lord that's a massive SD main event. :mark:

Watched it for ya skins (spoilers in the review):

*World Heavyweight Championship - Hell in a Cell
*Mark Henry (c) vs. Randy Orton (_Hell in a Cell 2011_)

First time seeing this. Usually I'm into Henry's control segments where he's playing to the crowd and being a badass, but for some reason this one just bored me. It was slow and just a bunch of headbutts and bearhugs. Action picked up nicely once Orton made the comeback on the outside (nifty World's Strongest Slam reversal into a ddt on the steps that really looked like he hurt himself more than Henry). Liked that Orton hit the RKO clean and Henry kicked out, but that finish felt kinda rushed. World's Strongest Slam has never been a finisher I could see doing that much damage unless he put a little more 'umph' into it, but whatevs. Solid match but nothing too special. *** 3/4*

Fwiw, I have their NOC match at *** and prefer that one. Their HIAC match feels a lot longer than 16 minutes.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Good lord that's a massive SD main event. :mark:
> 
> Watched it for ya skins (spoilers in the review):
> 
> ...


"need to spread rep"

I dont like those works at all, would you recommend, although you alot lower on the star scale than most when it comes to NOC

They have a nice sd match also


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

redskins25 said:


> "need to spread rep"
> 
> I dont like those works at all, would you recommend, although you alot lower on the star scale than most when it comes to NOC
> 
> They have a nice sd match also


Yeah I'm not as high on the NOC match as most but I'd still recommend it for sure. It does a better job of showing Orton trying to chop the big man down and it's just a really awesome moment when Henry wins clean. Orton's dropkicks and DDTs bundled together with the way Henry sells them look so good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

haha Ive seen it I have it around ***3/4


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

redskins25 said:


> Who is the last guy ?





Spoiler: mysterious guy


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh and I forgot to mention, Henry/Orton just felt like one of those matches that was completely unworthy of being inside Hell in a Cell. Not like they were involved in some personal bloodfeud or something. It was better than Punk/Ryback at least.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

While Taker has been on an phenominal role with amazing matches at mania since 07 (GOAT canidate at mania 25) and this is what is now used as vindication for taker's universal acceptance as a fantastic worker, Taker's time period from late 2001 through 2002 as big evil is what I would consider highly reccomended viewing for aspiring wrestlers wanting a model for a smart modern day wrestling style. During this time period as a badass face and later big evil it didn't seem like Taker wasted a single moment in the ring. Seemed like everything from the way taker would slam an weapon down after using it to a glance at a helpless manager watching their guy get mangled meant something. When combined with the crispness that taker executed his moves, the versatility (even though in 03 he would start getting more technical) and the good workrate he was able to maintain, you could make an argument that this was when taker was at his in ring peak. (I wouldn't but someone else could) Taker didn't have an GOAT canidate this year unlike 09 or 97, but wheras a common pattern for taker's career is big feast or famine, it seemed like Taker kept a really good pace with consistantly good matches with anyone from Tajiri to Kurt Angle mixed with some fantastic ones.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Spoiler: mysterious guy


Should be a decent match, they all may play it safe for sunday though


@ Corey iirc didnt they have like more than a couple sd matches after NOC ? So the feud was kinda done, plus Orton was dealing with Rhodes then. Memory is fuzzy


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Clash of the Champions V: St. Valentine's Massacre*​
The Midnight Express vs. The Russian Assassins - ***1/2*

Butch Reed vs. Steve Casey - ***

The Blackmailer :lol vs. Lex Luger - ***

*NWA United States Tag Team Title*
Varsity Club vs. The Fantastics - ***3/4*

Ricky Steamboat vs. Bob Bradley - ****

Rick Steiner vs. Rip Morgan - *DUD*

Genichiro Tenryu & The Road Warriors vs. Sting, Michael Hayes & The Junkyard Dog - *LOLWTF*

Genichiro Tenryu & The Road Warriors vs. The Varsity Club - *DUD*​
-Opening match consists of the GOATy Midnight Express and a horrible team. The Midnight Express tried, but the match just wasn't that interesting. The match dragged on too damn long and the Russian Assassins can't conduct a control segment. Highlights of this match include :heyman2 on commentary putting on a show and Jim Cornette and Paul Jones tussling outside.

-Wow this was bad. Fifteen minutes of two guys that the crowd do not like doing absolutely nothing. LOL at the cameraman focusing on a couple kissing in the crowd during the match and a kid doing the "You Can't See Me" taunt. These fans are acting fairly similar to the post-Mania RAW crowd in that they are trying to find any sort of fun that doesn't involve the competitors in the ring. Butch Reed tries to make things interesting by interacting with the crowd, but it just doesn't add to the match. I was never big on Butch Reed outside of the Flair carryjobs, so I'm gonna need something to change my opinion on him, and this dull match isn't it.

-LMFAO at The Blackmailer. He is just Jack Victory wearing another mask. Jack also wrestled as one of the two Russian Assassins earlier that night. This match is just terrible and once again, nothing happens outside of Lex Luger no-selling everything that happens to him.

-Ric Flair is in the ring and he's doing his usual GOAT promoing. God damn, look at those ladies! Steamboat interrupts him and they have a nice heated confrontation that hypes up their Chi-Town Rumble match. Highlight of the show. LOL at the crowd booing Ricky Steamboat for his vanilla promo and cheering on Ric as he goes crazy. "Hey girls, I want you to take one last look at what a loser looks like. Why don't you go home and help the misses with the dishes, pal?" :flair

-This is the match I am most looking forward to. The Fantastics never fail at COTC and the Varsity Club are pretty good. Not a bad match, but nothing really significant happens like in the other Fantastics COTC matches. Steve Williams is probably the worst person ever at disguising his spot-calling. Fantastics do their fun fast-paced offense and bump around for the Varsity Club, but the match just stays at one pace. Disappointing, but not bad.

-Ricky Steamboat has what he calls a "tune-up" match here against a jobber. Crowd doesn't care and chants "We Want Flair". Ricky does his usual fun stuff here, but this isn't worth watching.

-Skip. Rick Steiner sucks without his brother.

-All of these COTC events so far feature a very good main event starring Sting, but this main event was just a mess. For some unknown reason, the advertised main event of Tenryu and LOD vs. Sting/Hayes/JYD gets cancelled after Kevin Sullivan locks the babyfaces in a cage. Instead we get a brawl that leads to a double disqualification. Oh my goodness this was one of the worst things I have seen.

Please avoid this trash. If you think shows like Royal Rumble 2013 and NOC 2013 are bad, you need to take a look at this show. I'll make up for this travesty by reviewing Chi-Town Rumble. For now, just realize that whatever you think sucks now still doesn't stoop to the levels of this rubbish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Hey guys, should I continue the Del Rio project tonight (_I'm on August 2011_), or go back and watch matches from the past Hell in a Cell PPVs?


More :adr please.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

Just watched Bryan/Cena from SS. Amazing, still one of the best matches this year.

Although Cena/Bryan talking near the end annoyed me. :lol I hate when Cena calls spots to his opponents, they're usually so audible.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:adr vs :cena4 is giving me a dejá vú of a certain classic Cena had with 2008 with one Chris Jericho... Cena returns, for the WHC, against one of the top heels in arguably the best year of that heel's career...



Speaking of Jericho/Cena, that match took place at SVS in Boston. And speaking of SVS in Boston, here are two more Main Event matches rumored for the Big 4th in November:


Spoiler: possible Survivor Series Main Event



Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H

or

Team Bryan (Daniel Bryan, The Big Show, Dolph Ziggler & Codydust) vs. Team HHH (Triple H, Randy Orton & The Shield)



Fuck me, SVS lookin' good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Jericho from Survivor Series. Jesus. That's a match I hold in such high regard.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed. My MOTY for 2008 actually, there's something you don't hear everyday. Better than anything Jericho ever did with Shawn Michaels, better than everything Edge did with Undertaker, better than anything HHH did with Jeff Hardy, it's the fucking TITS man. Cena's performance in that was something else man, I point to matches like that when I wanna pimp Cena as being one of the greatest ever, which he no doubt is.

All Bryan fans should legitimately feel afraid if Bryan/HHH happens at Survivor Series. HHH is going over in his first match as a heel regardless of who it is against, and a match against Bryan this early probably means that there's going to be a new hero such as Cena getting the end game victory.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to watch Cena/Jericho again. I remember it being shit lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Really need to see y2j vs cena but I doubt it'll top hbk/flair as my 2008 MOTY, cause that's at *****


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho sistematically torturing Cena's just off-surgery neck was priceless, and so was Cena's legit underdog presence. Unlike about 90% of his matches, Cena WAS a true underdog here, his facials and all made his pain come to life in such a brilliant way. Yeah, fucking awesome match it was. One of the few bright spots from SVS 08. Though I certainly don't have it as 2008 MOTY (yes, I'm one of those that think Jericho/Shawn NM is it). It's hard to deny 2008 Jericho was one of if not the greatest heel of the decade.

Del Rio certainly is no Chris Jericho character wise (not even remotely close), but I'd gladly put him over Y2J as far as in-ring work goes (Jericho is very good, no doubt, but he is a little sloppy and formulaic for my tastes). Can't wait to see what he's got cooked for Johnboy come Sunday - especially considering that the injury Cena had was in the biceps. Biceps? Arm. Arm? Armbreaker. Armbreaker? ALBERTO DEL RIO! 8*D

Hayley, just wanted to know, what were your thoughts on Kurt/Bobby from BFG? I personally thought it was pretty good, it had the best counter I've ever seen (Angle's backflip into Angle Slam) and Roode's work was pretty damn senseful... though I did got a lot of dejá vú from a certain pair's group of matches. A HUGE lot. Thank God Bobby still reminded himself to sell the pain in the ankle when he locked the Crossface, and in the long term in general.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I thought the match was bad. I'm pretty sure he feels the same.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IMO it's Jericho's best WWE singles match full stop. I have the Power Trip tag over it, but it's his best singles match. Although I need to watch his matches with The Rock, as I haven't seen them in a while.

Edit: In fact it could be his best match in his career, but then again I haven't seen a great deal of his previous work. Any recs? WCW? ECW? Japan? Mexico?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, you're not kidding. I kinda expect that too. Another thing that did bother me was Roode's pretty much SPAM of the Crossface. I understand Roode wanted a desperate submission victory to put himself in the place he thinks he deserves to be, in a Hall Of Fame patheon, but that was just a tiny little too much. Still a nice match imo. Roode made the most of Kurt's shenanigans.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've never seen anything from Jericho's work in Japan, WCW, or Mexico that has topped his stuff in the 'E, but I'm pretty sure there's a good deal of ECW stuff that people pimp to the heavens. I wanna say it's a bunch of TV Title matches against guys like Shane Douglas, 2 Cold Scorpio, and one of the Pitbulls. I've never seen any of them but I know they're spread throughout some of the ECW dvds.

Btw ATF, Cena' injury was a torn triceps. Close enough though.

So random note, Del Rio is on FIRE right now throughout the late Summer of 2011. Like, wow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for the sake of it, I decided to place WeAreProWrestling's Top 20 matches of 2013 list just to give y'all an idea of the difference of opinions out there:



> 1. John Cena vs. CM Punk, Raw 2/25 (*****)
> 2. CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam (****3/4)
> 3. The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania (****1/2)
> 4. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho, Payback (****1/2)
> ...


Yup. Amazing list (sarcasm).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Wow, looks like some people are over-generous with the star ratings. Oh well.

HIAC 2011 ratings coming up here in a bit. Dat main event :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

FluxCapacitor said:


> IMO it's Jericho's best WWE singles match full stop. I have the Power Trip tag over it, but it's his best singles match. Although I need to watch his matches with The Rock, as I haven't seen them in a while.
> 
> Edit: In fact it could be his best match in his career, but then again I haven't seen a great deal of his previous work. Any recs? WCW? ECW? Japan? Mexico?




Here are a few I'd reccomend

Jericho vs Ultimo Dragon Super Juniors 1996 (believe it was Super Juniors, could be wrong. It's the match that put him on the map and got him hired in ECW/WCW)
Jericho vs Eddie Fall Brawl 1997
Jericho vs Eddie SuperBrawl 1997 (absolutely dead crowd, but an excellent match)
Jericho vs Cactus Jack ECW
Jericho vs Mysterio Souled Out 1998
Jericho vs Malenko Uncensored


I'm not saying those matches are better than SVS2008, but they are all fantastic, especially the Ultimo and Eddie matches (duh, it's Ultimo and Eddie)


Hope this helps.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

^Well, that list ain't too bad until number 4. 

And wait, now Jericho/Cena SVS 2008 is considered a MOTYC? Since when? :lmao I don't remember that match being anything special at all (or any of Cena/Jericho's matches for that matter). Guess I'll give it a watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> ^Well, that list ain't too bad until number 4.
> 
> And wait, now Jericho/Cena SVS 2008 is considered a MOTYC? Since when? :lmao I don't remember that match being anything special at all (or any of Cena/Jericho's matches for that matter). Guess I'll give it a watch.


I'm a mark for any and everything Foley. I'll even watch the shit in his late career with the Blue Sweatpants of Doom and still love it. But even if I wasn't, that match is still good, Don't know how you could hate it.

All 3 Cena Vs Jericho matches are superb

Cena vs Jericho SummerSlam 2005
Cena vs Jericho Loser Leaves Town on Raw 2005
Cena vs Jericho SVS 2008 (character work and selling is straight ridiculous in this one, soooo happy I own it on DVD on the history of the WHC set)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't think their SS 05 is good at all. Cena was sucking HARD on PPV in 05 as champ outside of the JBL I Quit.

SVS 08 match is on the WHC set? Hmmm... might at least give that one a watch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still say Summerslam 2005 is their best match, really like that one personally.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*The Del Rio Project!

*Alberto Del Rio vs. Daniel Bryan (_Smackdown - August 19, 2011_)

I'm not entirely sure why this match is happening considering Del Rio beat Bryan in about 4 minutes last week, but I won't complain. It's Del Rio vs. Bryan! Much better match here as it actually got time. Del Rio works the arm throughout the whole match and Bryan sells it wonderfully. Del Rio has a really underrated german suplex that he's been utilizing around this time frame. He makes it look so effortless and bridges into it with no problem. Bryan had some nice stuff in the back half of the match, like reversing Del Rio's backdrop attempt off the middle ropes in mid-air and locking in a sweet looking front chokehold off of a tilt-a-whirl, but you could tell he was still being held back a bit going in against the WWE Champion. In the end, Del Rio hits a northern lights suplex, thinks about it, then swivels over into the cross armbreaker to force the tapout. The champ's on a roll.

*** 1/4

--------------------------------

















Alberto Del Rio vs. John Morrison (_RAW - August 22, 2011_)

Well this one came out of nowhere. Del Rio's put up against another quality mid-card opponent and it delivers yet again. This one felt like a total scrap. Del Rio's throwing repeated punches to the head, kicks to the stomach and arm, throwing Morrison into the barricade, just being a badass really. This isn't the flashy Morrison, this is the Morrison who shows grit and determination. He has like 2 or 3 really close nearfalls down the stretch, including one off a beautiful move where Del Rio countered the shining wizard and went for a power bomb but Morrison reversed it and snapped off a quick hurricanrana. Fun finishing stretch too as they start trading strikes until Morrison no-sells a headbutt and hits the Disaster Kick (yeah idk what he calls it ), but goes up for Starship Pain and Del Rio tosses him shoulder-first into the ringpost, locks in the cross armbreaker, and gets another impressive victory. I'm having a really hard time differentiating these matches that are between 3 1/4 and 3 1/2, but for this one we'll go with:

*** 1/2

--------------------------------

*WWE Championship
*Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. John Cena (_Night of Champions 2011_)

I've been really looking forward to watching this one again, another match I haven't seen since the ppv aired. The video package for this is really fuckin awesome. Definitely check it out. Then the entrances consist of Cena taking Del Rio's car and announcing his own entrance. This match is hyping itself up big time. Before I get into detail, I'll say I liked this one, but I didn't love it. Del Rio looked really strong as he cut John off every time he was gaining momentum, but I don't think the action EVER truly got out of first gear. It was more of a 'big move, nearfall, rest' type of match where one big thing would happen and you'd have to wait for another one. Del Rio for some reason never targeted the arm long term and that just made it easier for Cena to block the cross armbreaker attempt and slam him out of it. I liked the actual moves that Del Rio utilized; german suplex, backcracker, enziguri kick, etc. Cena held his own well enough I guess, nothing out of the ordinary from his skill set besides a dropkick. The finish was a little too SuperCena like for me as he randomly hits the AA while we're watching a replay and wins with the STF, but what can ya do. Like I said, I liked this one but I think they could've shaved a few minutes off by working at a faster pace. 

*** 1/4​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Don't think their SS 05 is good at all. Cena was sucking HARD on PPV in 05 as champ outside of the JBL I Quit.
> 
> SVS 08 match is on the WHC set? Hmmm... might at least give that one a watch.


Couldn't disagree with you more Big Cal, that SummerSlam match is just great I think, I remember giving it in the area of **** on last watch, with the Raw match the following night getting the same or maybe ***3/4. Jericho definitely brings it in both, and Cena isn't bad by any means. The dude wasn't a good worker early on, we all know that, but if he was in the ring with someone who knew what they were doing they could accentuate the few good things he did and hide the negatives, you could have a good to great match. Essentially do the exact OPPOSITE of what Trips did in their matches together


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So just finished watching Cena/Jericho SVS 08 (yeah, I basically made my last post, then went to search it right away). The selling by Cena was good, the neck work by Jericho was great, and loved the moment of Cena deciding not to go to the top rope (due to what happened at SS 08). Wouldn't call it a MOTYC or anywhere close tbh, but it was a lot better than I remember it being. I'd give it ***3/4. Great stuff from the two of them.

The Summerslam match I have to re-watch as well, but I'm not gonna right this second. Same story as the one above, although I did already have SVS 08>SS 05. 

Cena/ADR NOC 2011- **1/2... this match :lmao Del Rio's gotten better since this match so I'm hoping for something good between the two, but I'll be shocked if it's as great as Cena/Jericho SVS 08.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> So just finished watching Cena/Jericho SVS 08 (yeah, I basically made my last post, then went to search it right away). The selling by Cena was good, the neck work by Jericho was great, and loved the moment of Cena deciding not to go to the top rope (due to what happened at SS 08). Wouldn't call it a MOTYC or anywhere close tbh, but it was a lot better than I remember it being. I'd give it ***3/4. Great stuff from the two of them.
> 
> The Summerslam match I have to re-watch as well, but I'm not gonna right this second. Same story as the one above, although I did already have SVS 08>SS 05.
> 
> Cena/ADR NOC 2011- **1/2... this match :lmao


I think I had their SVS 2008 match in the ****1/4 area, so we aren't that far apart. I'm a sucker for well executed story telling, terrific under dog performances, and limb work that serves a purpose and actually goes somewhere. Basically I love it when a match tells a good story and the moves have purpose and make sense, but then again doesn't everybody?

For 2008, I liked the Edge HIAC Match and HBK/Flair more. Prolly Taker/Edge WM too. There are probably 2-3 others, Jericho vs HBK Judgement Day was awesome, I think I might prefer SVS over that one though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I too have just watched Cena/Jericho SVS 08. Its good, but honestly I thought it started to get a little tedious. Needed 5 or so minutes cut off it imo. Didn't help that the HOMETOWN CENA CROWD didn't give a FUCK for 90% of the match lol. They barely reacted to anything and it made some of the great storytelling moments (like Cena going to the ropes and climbing back down) fall a bit flat even if I personally enjoyed them. ***1/2 for it, and I'd put every Undertaker/Edge match bar TLC above it + a bunch of other matches too no doubt (HHH/Hardy, Show/Taker etc are the first few that come to mind).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Was I high when I watched Cena/Del Rio? Other people's thoughts are making me think so.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

*Hell in a Cell 2011​*
Christian vs Sheamus - ****1/2*
Sin Cara vs Sin Cara - **3/4*
Air Boom vs Swagger/Ziggler - Tag Titles - ***1/2*
Randy Orton vs Mark Henry - WHC - HIAC - ****1/4*
Cody Rhodes vs John Morrison - Intercontinental Title - ***3/4*
Beth Phoenix vs Kelly Kelly - Divas Title - **1/2*
John Cena vs CM Punk vs Alberto Del Rio - WWE Title - HIAC - *****1/4*

Decent show - really sporadic in terms of match quality, I though. Very fun opener in Christian/Sheamus, then a Sin Cara vs Sin Cara for which I had absolutely ZERO fucks to give. It was just a bunch of flips and tilt-a-whirls with ZERO story. Even the commentators were clearly losing focus during the entire second half of the match, and passed the time by coming up with phrases/words to say in Spanish. Crowd was also super quiet for this one. That match did feature some hilarious commentary from Booker T, however: "I just wanna see Sin Cara and Sin Cara take it to da street and just throw down, dawg!" :lmao He also said that Sin Cara was the most extreme daredevil that WWE has ever seen. fpalm

Tag match is fine. Not much to see. 

Orton/Henry was pretty good, I thought. Booker T said Mark Henry should take the countout victory and leave. Cole very quickly reminded him that there was no countout in HIAC matches. :lmao

IC title matches and Divas titles matches were meh. Cody was cutting a promo and Laurinitis came out and said he'd be defending the title against Morrison. Cody wrestles in his suit. Cole bitches about Triple H abusing his power. Whatever. And there's a Divas match. Kelly screams a lot. Beth wins the belt.

Main event is so :mark: :mark:. Del Rio did well to look super vicious in his firs HIAC match, and Punk takes some sick bumps off the cell and threw a table. I was actually glad they locked Cena out of the cell at the end of the match so Punk/Del Rio should be great together. This is easily the number 2 cell match behind Trips/Taker since Edge/Taker in 2008. This might even rival Edge/Taker.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Was I high when I watched Cena/Del Rio? Other people's thoughts are making me think so.


Did you like it more than I did?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> *Hell in a Cell 2011​*
> Christian vs Sheamus - ****1/2*
> Sin Cara vs Sin Cara - **3/4*
> Air Boom vs Swagger/Ziggler - Tag Titles - ***1/2*
> ...


This is now next on my list of PPVs to watch. I don't think I've ever seen anything on the card and I feel like continuing with 2011 after NoC and TLC.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did you like it more than I did?


Yeah, but that's not really the problem. Seems like people thought the match was slow and not that much happened. When I watched it I thought it had a really good high tempo pace to it with lots of good account. Maybe the hot crowd tricked me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> Main event is so :mark: :mark:. Del Rio did well to look super vicious in his firs HIAC match, and Punk takes some sick bumps off the cell and threw a table. I was actually glad they locked Cena out of the cell at the end of the match so Punk/Del Rio should be great together. *This is easily the number 2 cell match behind Trips/Taker since Edge/Taker in 2008. * This might even rival Edge/Taker.


You mean of the PG era or of all time?

Was a great cell match. Wouldn't put it above Taker/HHH though and I sure as hell wouldn't put it above Taker/Edge... but I think it'd be number behind them in the PG era. ***3/4.

Also, forgot to mention that I watched Barrett/Orton's tables match after what Saint Dick had to say about it. Really good match. ***1/4. Don't know if I'd put it above Sandow/Sheamus or not, but it's a close call. Loved the moment where Orton gets out of the pump-handle slam and Barrett's immediate reaction is to knock over the table right behind him. The finish, while very obvious I remember from my first time watch due to how Orton wasn't completely on the table, it was still a cool spot.

I actually kinda wanna go through Barrett and Orton's late 2011-early 2012 matches now. I remember their initial SD one where Barrett won with the thumb to the eye being really good, and same with the No DQ match in February of 2012 (I think the one C2D called their best).


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I meant in the PG Era.. Punk/Cena/Del Rio is easily behind Trips/Taker, and probably Edge/Taker. Just love it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

One match I've never seen......Mysterio/Jericho (Bash '09) 

As a mark for both, fuck knows why I havnt seen it yet, don't own the PPV but think its on the Best PPV Matches 09/10 DVD.

Going to finally watch it tonight.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't give in to the HYPE~! or you might be disappointed. Its good but not MOTYC imo. We saw a bunch of better TV matches on both SD and ECW alone.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mysterio vs Jericho from the Bash was one of my favorite from 2009. Believe the hype.

Been big on Cena vs Jericho from Survivor Series since the night it happened. It's always been a polarizing match; remember the discussions on here vividly about it after the PPV ended. Always held up for me. Easily a top five match on the year. Could be number one, although Undertaker & Jeff Hardy were insane that year. Namely their matches from No Mercy ranking high. Undertaker in '08 was untouchable.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Yeah, don't listen to Cal. Match is amazing. :hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

EVERYONE LISTEN TO CAL. Or Cal will fuck you up cos he's in a BAD mood.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Mysterio vs Jericho from the Bash was one of my favorite from 2009. Believe the hype.
> 
> Been big on Cena vs Jericho from Survivor Series since the night it happened. It's always been a polarizing match; remember the discussions on here vividly about it after the PPV ended. Always held up for me. Easily a top five match on the year. Could be number one, although Undertaker & Jeff Hardy were insane that year. Namely their matches from No Mercy ranking high. Undertaker in '08 was untouchable.



Call me crazy, but I think Takers best work of his career was 2008, consistency wise. Before people jump all over me, yes Taker has been a great worker since 1998 or so at the earliest, and 2001-2002 at the latest, but for me 2008 was Takers peak year as a worker. In the ring he was just unapproachable.

Believe the hype about Jericho/Rey GAB 2009, it is truly marvelous, one of my top 5-6 from that year. Don't sleep on the match they had before it at Extreme Rules 2009, that was ALMOST as good. That whole feud was just all around good stuff. I love Jericho's behind the scenes explanation for that feud "I wanted Rey's mask. Why? I don't know, just so I could have it and Rey couldn't. That's what bullies do man. I'll take that mask then burn it, I don't care, as long as Rey doesn't have it" :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal lets talk about UNDERTAKER being god, more than usual, in 2008 to cheer you up.

His April alone > half of the roster's whole year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> I actually kinda wanna go through Barrett and Orton's late 2011-early 2012 matches now. I remember their initial SD one where Barrett won with the thumb to the eye being really good,* and same with the No DQ match in February of 2012 (I think the one C2D called their best)*.


Yeah, that one. Surprised me how much better it was than I remembered it when I did my Orton list.



Cactus Jack said:


> Call me crazy, but I think Takers best work of his career was 2008, consistency wise. Before people jump all over me, yes Taker has been a great worker since 1998 or so at the earliest, and 2001-2002 at the latest, but for me 2008 was Takers peak year as a worker. In the ring he was just unapproachable.


I don't think there's anything crazy about that. Isn't that Taker's most active year since the Attitude Era? From 2003-2006, he was always away and pretty much worked a part-time schedule. Plus his ring work really started being on point around 2005.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Primer said:


> Cal lets talk about UNDERTAKER being god, more than usual, in 2008 to cheer you up.
> 
> His April alone > half of the roster's whole year.



I'm not Cal, but I can agree that Undertaker is part of wrestling Holy Trinity, along with Foley and Eddie. Let's see, in April he had that Title vs title match with Kane, he also had a match with Batista, the Edge matches (either Backlash or mania, can't remember which was in April) plus didn't he have a fantastic match with Festus/Gallows somewhere in there? 

Yea, The Undertaker is pretty great. :agree:


Edit- C2D that Orton/Barrett no DQ is better than solid, I remember really liking it. I also remember how ridiculous Booker sounded when he said "this is one of those matches where you will remember where you were when you saw it. Wade Barrett is a future Hall of Famer!" :lmao. I'm all for putting the product over, but come on Book.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HunterHearstHelmsley said:


> I meant in the PG Era.. Punk/Cena/Del Rio is easily behind Trips/Taker, and probably Edge/Taker. Just love it.


Ah, thought so. May as well throw a list of my top PG cell matches while we're at it:

1) Taker/Edge SS 2008 (****1/2)
2) Taker/HHH WM28 (****)
3) Punk/Cena/Del Rio HIAC 2011 (***3/4)
4) Sheamus/Orton HIAC 2010 (***1/4)
5) Taker/Punk HIAC 2009 (***1/4)

The match has suffered a bit since the start of the PG era, but Taker/Edge shows you can still have a classic in it. Lack of blood does still suck, though.

On Taker, I'd say 2008 was his best year as well and he'd be my WOTY 2008. Great Rumble showing. Great EC match. Awesome Mania main event. His April... as mentioned, with the Batista match, the Kane match, the Festus match, and the Backlash match with Edge were all ***1/2+ matches. All his matches with Edge were good, and yes, that includes the TLC match... which may be the weakest in their series, but it was still a fun match. The classic with Edge inside the cell, the awesome NM and CS matches with Big Show... only bad match I can think of from that year is his SVS match with Big Show. Outside of that, don't think I have a Taker match that year below ***.

Taker's 2007 was awesome as well and I'd put him as WOTY for that year too, although 2008 was better as whole. But 2007 Taker had the best Rumble ending with HBK ever, that amazing series with Batista, a great match with Finlay thrown in there, and the triple threat at Armageddon was great as well. Again, one PPV blemish in the Mark Henry Unforgiven match, but outside of that he had one hell of a year... I just can't remember as much from 2007 as I can from 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cactus Jack said:


> I'm not Cal, but I can agree that Undertaker is part of wrestling Holy Trinity, along with Foley and Eddie. Let's see, in April he had that Title vs title match with Kane, he also had a match with Batista, the Edge matches (either Backlash or mania, can't remember which was in April) plus didn't he have a fantastic match with Festus/Gallows somewhere in there?
> 
> Yea, The Undertaker is pretty great. :agree:


vs Kane
vs Festus
vs Batista x2
vs Edge (_although Edge sucked, Undertaker's performance was very good)_

All in one month. Oh, and he had a tag match with Kane vs Morrison & Miz on ECW the same month too. Been a bit since I last saw, but the memory is very positive.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> Ah, thought so. May as well throw a list of my top PG cell matches while we're at it:
> 
> 1) Taker/Edge SS 2008 (****1/2)
> 2) Taker/HHH WM28 (****)
> ...


I actually 100% agree with you list, both the order and the "stars".

It's a shameful thing that Big Show vs Sheamus HiaC wasn't actually held in a cell(see what I did there?). That might have pushed it passed Edge/Taker as the best of the PG era. That match already is just :mark: one of the best "big man style" battles/slugfests I've ever seen.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Undertaker has ruled the world since 05. His 04 was ok given how little he wrestled (love the JBL matches and the Hiedenreich match). His 03 was really good and I ADORE his 02 heel stuff + Lesnar feud.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cactus Jack said:


> It's a shameful thing that Big Show vs Sheamus HiaC wasn't actually held in a cell. That might have pushed it passed Edge/Taker as the best of the PG era.


Don't know about that 

It would've definitely made the list though unless the cell itself somehow threw off their amazing game they had for the match.

Taker from 2000 onwards just kept climbing up and up on the workers poll. 2000 he returned from injury and was rusty, so it wasn't such a good year. 2001 he picked up steam. 2002 he had that awesome heel run and some awesome matches with Angle, Rock, Flair, Lesnar, Jeff Hardy, and more... though he did have some stinkers like the Austin, Hogan, and HHH PPV matches, but the good far outweighed the bad and only the HHH match from that list was unbearably awful. 2003 he was just swell all around. Big Show match at NWO, Cena matches on Smackdowns and Vengeance (back when Cena was pretty bad in the ring as well), Lesnar NM 03 match (not as good as their series a year prior, but still really good), the classic Angle match on Smackdown, all good stuff. 2004 was good for what it was, maybe this was the year he took a step down, but I echo Cal's thoughts in that the JBL and Heidenreich matches were really good-great.

2005 is where he really took off though, as Cal mentioned. The series with Orton was awesome, he had a couple of really good TV matches with JBL as well. Only thing is I can't remember too much outside of that.  But 2006 he had another classic with Angle, gave Khali arguably his best match, gave Kennedy the best matches of his career, had a great match with Big Show on ECW, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a ton. 2007 and 2008 I went over above. 2009... GOAT match with HBK says enough. His title reign wasn't anything particularly special, but he was consistent. 2010 was really good with another classic HBK match, a great EC match, two great matches with Rey at the Rumble and on Smackdown, a really good match with Kane at NOC (although their following two matches sucked) and had an awesome TV match with Punk on Smackdown in September. 2011 was one great match, but that's it. 2012 was one even better match, but that's it. 2013 he delivered an even better match and a classic imo with Punk, and had a couple of good-great TV matches with Shield/Ambrose. Not much else to say.

So all in all, Taker rules.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Triple/Under HIAC is my personal favorite WM match ever. Don't care if its overrated or not, I have it at ****3/4 myself, fuck y'all. :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Sandrone said:


> Don't know about that
> 
> It would've definitely made the list though unless the cell itself somehow threw off their amazing game they had for the match.



I think I gave Sheamus/Show HiaC ****1/4 on last watch, I mean I really really loved it. It's not out of the question that the cell and the added intensity/punishment that the cell brings could have raised it 1/4*. Then again, you could be right and the cell might have thrown off their chemistry. Either way, I'm happy we got what we got. I think I need to watch that again when I get home.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Saw payback on on demand so I gave it a rewatch today since I attended this event. 

Axel/ Miz/ Barrett ***
Aj/ Kaitlynn **3/4
Kane/ Ambrose *1/2
Ziggler/ Del Rio ****1/4
Punk/ Jericho ***3/4
Bryan/ Orton Vs Reigns/ Rollins **3/4
Ryback/ Cena ***1/4


Solid opener. Why the fuck did Axel get that big of a pop!!??

Del Rio/ Ziggler easily MOTN. Ziggler had a great sell job and del Rio did good to with the double turn. 

Punk/ Jericho wasn't bad, but I still like their mania match the best. I have this one and their ER match the same rating. 

Cena/ Ryback is just a mediocre main event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Jericho is **3/4 imo, just a bunch of MOVEZ but I'll take that since there wasn't any story at all to be told. ER >>>>>> it imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Diva, WHC and Tag Title matches are all really good from Payback. Rest of the show can feck off.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Punk/Jericho I'd give ***3/4. Certainly not as bad as people make it out to be... of course it's not their best match either and certainly not MOTN, but it was a great match, actually in a similar vein as Cena/Jericho (although I have Cena/Jericho higher).

Payback was great. Opener was surprisingly good. Divas match was great. Punk/Jericho was great. Tag title match was good. Ziggler/ADR is a MOTYC. Main Event wasn't good but it wasn't totally terrible. Overall an all around quality show and one of the better PPVs of the year, which surprised the fuck out of me when I watched it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> So all in all, Taker rules.


And water is wet.

Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a favorable opinion of Taker? He's like the only guy who gets approval from everybody in here.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker has ruled the world always if we're being completely honest. All he did for most of 1996 was work vs Mankind and it was the greatest thing ever. For one of many possible examples.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a favorable opinion of Taker? He's like the only guy who gets approval from everybody in here.


And that's how it should be. 

Although I'm not high on Taker's in-ring work pre-2002 like I see others have been, but from 96-2001, there are definitely a plethora of great Taker matches, including what many call the GOAT match, his cell match with HBK.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

The only guy that doesn't like Taker on this forum is that Austin316 G.O.A.T guy.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

But he loves :HHH2 so he earns points back.

Seriously, never seen a negative post about Triple H from him.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> The only guy that doesn't like Taker on this forum is that Austin316 G.O.A.T guy.


Yeah, but he doesn't post in this thread. I know Austin101 wasn't that fond of Taker either when he was posting here. I remember he did a top 25 all-time list and Taker didn't crack the top 20 (think he was like number 24 or something).

I'm sure there are plenty who aren't fond of Taker, but it does seem like everyone in this thread loves him... or at least his in-ring work. And again, that's exactly how it should be.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> And water is wet.
> 
> Is there anyone in this thread who doesn't have a favorable opinion of Taker? He's like the only guy who gets approval from everybody in here.




No one is worse than Austin316GOAT or whatever his name is. (I know he never posts in here, but still) he embarrasses himself to a tee when it comes to the undertaker.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> The only guy that doesn't like Taker on this forum is that Austin316 G.O.A.T guy.




All he says all the time "Taker was never the top guy" Well no shit. Your face of the company isn't gonna be a deadman appearing on late night talk shows :lmao


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> All he says all the time "Taker was never the top guy" Well no shit. Your face of the company isn't gonna be a deadman appearing on late night talk shows :lmao


The last part :lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

And truth be told, Taker was arguably the top guy in 1997 and you could even make a case for him being the #1 guy in 2008 (since Cena wasn't as strong of a force that year as his other years), so he's even wrong on that. :lmao


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Corporate KingOfKings said:


> All Bryan fans should legitimately feel afraid if Bryan/HHH happens at Survivor Series. HHH is going over in his first match as a heel regardless of who it is against, and a match against Bryan this early probably means that there's going to be a new hero such as Cena getting the end game victory.


I'm fairly confident WWE's gonna go with Big Show vs. HHH at Survivor Series and save Bryan vs. HHH for Mania. If they blow their load on Bryan vs. HHH early, they BETTER do Bryan vs. an A+ PLAYER at Mania. :HHH


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

All the wonderful Taker talk :mark: 

After Jericho/Rey im watching Taker/Angle 2003.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Undertaker is the true definition of a legend in the pro wrestling industry. He took what was a corny, cartoonish, cheap, typical 90s gimmick and elevated to heights no one would have expected him to. 

Taker is the conscience of the WWE and I fear for what life in the WWE will be like once The Deadman truly retires. One thing is for sure, Wrestlemania isn't going to be Wrestlemania without him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WM might as well change its name to Bound for Glory once Undertaker retires.

Might to a big UNDERTAKER project once I finish ECW 09 (might do some more of that later). C2D's top 100 Orton Matches? Fuck that shit, this forum needs an UNDERTAKER TOP HOWEVER MANY MATCHES HE'S HAD list.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

TOP 100 TAKER MATCHES would be epic. 



xdoomsayerx said:


> No one is worse than Austin316GOAT or whatever his name is. (I know he never posts in here, but still) he embarrasses himself to a tee when it comes to the undertaker.


He's fucking awful. He has a serious fixation for Triple H.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

My Trips project has pretty much stalled for a few months. Watched nearly 100 matches, and lots of great things, but I needed a break from that. Might resume it here soon.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rey/Jericho (Bash 2009)

****1/4

Loved this, I believe in the hype!! Great action throughout, really good finishing sequences, loved the double springboard, walls of Jericho counter.

Yeah, I enjoyed this.

Taker/Angle up next


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> TOP 100 TAKER MATCHES would be epic.
> 
> 
> 
> He's fucking awful. He has a serious fixation for Triple H.


Top 100? Fuck that I'll rank em ALL + house show footage and shit I have too .

Fucking HHH fans, they are just the worst, aren't they?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

:HHH 

We're not all the worst.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> Top 100? Fuck that I'll rank em ALL + house show footage and shit I have too .
> 
> Fucking HHH fans, they are just the worst, aren't they?


Okay then, where would Boiler Room Brawl and KING of the Ring 2002 be placed? 

And some HHH marks are awful, but Punk and Bryan marks outside of here are really battling it out.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bottom 10 probably .

Worst makes on the forum are probably Orton ones 8*D.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I dare say the full fledged Punk and/or Bryan marks are the worst, at least currently. I like both guys, but damn some people just jizz hard over one or the other and the one they don't jizz over is apparently shit. Dat ratings thread also. :kobe


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Y2J svs 08 is that good ? I will have to watch this for myself

@ Zep81 dont listen to Cal rey/y2j is pretty good


Not a big project guy but the following has peaking my interest to do so :

Punk 2009
Top Ziggler matches
Shawn Michaels 1996


Aj Lee marks are the worst on this forum and it isnt close anymore tbhayley


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Christian and Orton marks are bad. But the worst are the "UK" marks aka the ones who make a thread every week about how WWE should bring Wrestlemania to England, also happen to be the ones who are avid supporters of William Regal, Finlay, Wade Barrett, and Drew McIntyre.

HBK and Ric Flair marks are pretty bad too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Alim said:


> HBK and Ric Flair marks are pretty bad too.


 I'm pretty cool


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Oh yeah, AJ marks are horrible too. She's the female version of CM Punk. Overrated as fuck.



Callamus said:


> Bottom 10 probably .
> 
> Worst makes on the forum are probably Orton ones 8*D.


There's not enough of us to justify the label.  rton2 :rko2


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

As a mark for both Punk and Bryan, I find those "battles" hilarious, much like the Punk/Rock ones. Although while I did sort of understand where the Punk/Rock stuff came from, I don't get why Punk and Bryan marks are at war with each other. You have Showstopper97 (or whatever his new name is), markedfordeath, Happenstan and others going at it in troll wars with Wrestlinfan35, mblonde, etc. Hell, even I'll jump in at times, usually trolling the Bryan marks, but since I'm also a Bryan mark, I'll occasionally throw a jab at Punk. And while it's fun to troll, when I step back and look at it, it's kind of silly we're all getting in these mark wars when both guys happen to come from basically the same place and we should all be happy WWE has decided to run with them. 

But oh well, trolling always prevails... and as long as it doesn't enter this thread, it's all good. 

Oh, and then you have guys like Dunmer and Amuroguy who'll troll both sides to no end. :lmao


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Punk and Bryan marks are the same as Rock and Austin marks when they start fighting.

Also I would love to see a Top 100 Chris Benoit matches.  That's a hard list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Anyone bad mouths AJ and I'll cut em.

The UK marks that cream over Barrett and think WM has any chance of being held over here are :lmao. They don't seem to understand just how much of a problem the time difference would be . And those who think Barrett is talented and should be WWE/WHC need shooting. Guy is shit in the ring, dull on the mic and has been awful 99% of his career.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

rabidwolverine27 said:


> Also I would love to see a Top 100 Chris Benoit matches.  That's a hard list.


???? what are you taking about


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Callamus said:


> And those who think Barrett is talented and should be WWE/WHC need shooting. Guy is shit in the ring, dull on the mic and has been awful 99% of his career.


SHUT UP! 

Go back to talking about Taker. At least you're right, then. :cool2


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

AJ fanboys creep me out. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to kidnap her.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Barrett and Sandow should team up and become a jobber team. They can feud with the Funkadinosaur people in dark matches 8*D.

Hey, I am NOT trying to kidnap AJ. What? Those "kidnap AJ plans" on my PC? Those are nothing. YOU DIE NOW.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Punk/Bryan/AJ hardcore marks > Barrett haters. Because hating on Barrett sucks. :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Callamus said:


> Barrett and Sandow should team up and become a jobber team. They can feud with the Funkadinosaur people in dark matches 8*D.


Sandow and Barrett team is full of win. :mark:

Your idea sucks though. :cuss:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Barrett sucks.


Fixed


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

So there are haters everywhere. I think we pretty well covered that. 

Is there any chance that Taker returns and does anything with the Shield since they put him out, or does he return after EC and go straight into his Mania program with Cena or Brock?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sandrone said:


> But oh well, trolling always prevails... and as long as it doesn't enter this thread, it's all good.
> 
> Oh, and then you have guys like Dunmer and Amuroguy who'll troll both sides to no end. :lmao


Punk marks getting trolled is always hilarious. So many of them will have meltdowns and in certain cases, they'll hide their tears behind laugh smileys. markedfordeath doesn't even exist for me, put him on ignore list as soon as I noticed his annoying non-stop posting and have rarely felt like clicking "View post".



rabidwolverine27 said:


> Punk and Bryan marks are the same as Rock and Austin marks when they start fighting.
> 
> Also I would love to see a Top 100 Chris Benoit matches.  That's a hard list.


Only this time they'll argue about who is the bigger anti-draw. unk2 :bryan

I'd try to do a Benoit list (probably WWE only) but it's hard because I could probably name 50 matches right off the bat that are candidates. Still I've been GOATing with picture discoveries so I could make it look cool while doing my countdown. 



Callamus said:


> Anyone bad mouths AJ and I'll cut em.


AJ is as entertaining as Barrett and The Miz. 

She can wrestle a decent match but when it comes to looks, I'd easily name 20 divas at the very least before her.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YOU TAKE THAT BACK. MIZ AND BARRETT AREN'T ENTERTAINING AT ALL. AMMA CUT YOU UP BITCH!

Undertaker in a 3 on 1 handicap match against THE SHIELD at some point would be :mark:.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hey Cal, I need your immediate reaction to this, which is a totally 100% legit spoiler for Taker's Mania 30 opponent:



Spoiler: Taker WM30 match tagline



The Streak meets The Barrett Barrage


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll kill him before he gets the chance. RIP Wade Barrett - whenever he was born to 2013. He died with a knife in his eye.

Gonna go watch CHRISTIAN VS CHRIS JERICHO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Cal sucks.


Fixed


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Hey, ya never know. 

Well, okay, we do know it's never happening, but if it did, it might actually somehow transform Barrett into a good worker like what Batista got after his Mania match with Taker. Barrett has a classic with Taker, and he goes on a TV match roll. Before long, everyone in this thread loves Barrett! :lol:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I'll kill him before he gets the chance. RIP Wade Barrett - whenever he was born to 2013. He died with a knife in his eye.


:lmao

You should do a "ten reasons to hate Barrett" video. Should be hilarious.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Angle/Taker SD 2003

I'm tempted to throw ****3/4 at this, it just gets better every fucking time for me, would have been better without the commercial break (don't think much was missing though) and yeah during such a good match, no-one likes an interference but I wasn't too bothered (Damn Brock lol)

Awesome.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I have been struggling to come up with an idea for 2morrow's video... depends what I can come up with tonight. Might wait while next week since I already had something in mind for this week. But I'm totally doing at least a top 5 reasons to hate Wade Barrett video. Might make the "top 5 reasons to hate" thing a series .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

besides his matches with sheamus, Barrett does nothing for me you can have "BARRETT BARRAGE"

same with Sandow


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

zep81 said:


> Angle/Taker SD 2003
> 
> I'm tempted to throw ****3/4 at this, it just gets better every fucking time for me, would have been better without the commercial break (don't think much was missing though) and yeah during such a good match, no-one likes an interference but I wasn't too bothered (Damn Brock lol)
> 
> Awesome.


:mark: match is near perfection for TV. I'd got the full ***** if it had a proper ending. Best TV match in WWF/E history imo .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You'd guys forgot to mention CM Bork, that dude is the worst. He tries to turn anything and everything into a Punk mark war.

Haven't encountered a lot of raging Foley/Eddie marks, but I'm sure there are more of us out there.

That Angle/Taker match from Smackdown is absolutely glorious. Every bit as good as their much moe lauded NWO match, but without the hype.

I really don't know what the best TV match ever is, Stone Cold vs Benoit on Smackdown and the Angle/Lesnar Ironman have always been favorites of mine. I guess if a gun was put to my head, Eddie/Rey Smackdown 6/23 would be my pick for best TV match ever. Gets the full ***** from me! surprise surprise


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker just busted it all out in that match (one of, if not the, first times I seen him do 'Snake Eyes', shows how much of a roll he was mostly on during that 02-03 run. I'll watch No Way Out 2006 later this week.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Barrett only seems to understand how to wrestle when he faces Sheamus and Bryan. With everybody else, all he does is just act like a statue or a traffic cone.

Cena/Jericho from SVS AND Armageddon 2008 are really good. Jericho did nothing but GOAT around in 2008. Better than Taker, better than Michaels, better than everyone. I haven't seen Cena/Jericho from SS 05 in years mainly because of how disgusted I was at the ending, but I remember Jericho being very good in it and Cena having one of his best performances of 2005 in that match (which at the time was equivalent to whatever Wade Barrett's best performance is). Their RAW match was fun, but once again it was all Jericho.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> besides his matches with sheamus, Barrett does nothing for me you can have "BARRETT BARRAGE"
> 
> same with Sandow


Barrett does actually have a few great matches. Cena at HIAC, Sheamus on their last Main Event match this year (think it was May or something), Bryan at Summerslam a couple of years ago, and I'm sure one of the Orton ones from late 2011-early 2012 has to be up there. There was also a Mysterio one I thought was really good. Not to mention he was the MVP in the World Title chamber match in 2012, which was a great one at that. He does desperately need the right opponent to have a great match, but he's not completely hopeless like Otunga, Khali, etc. 

Sandow... he's underrated in the ring. He only has a couple of singles matches I'd put at ***1/2 (vs. Christian 7/3/13 and vs. Orton 8/12/13) but I was going through his list of matches on cagematch.net the other day, and the guy has a ton of sub-5 minute matches. He rarely has the chance to showcase anything, although when given a shot to go the distance like the two above matches, the Del Rio match on Smackdown a couple of weeks ago, he's perfectly capable of doing well. If he's ever given a proper run in the main event where he gets matches longer than 5 minutes consistently, I'm certain people will warm up to his in-ring work.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, most of the GOAT WWF/E TV matches took place on SD. ALL HAIL SMACKDOWN WHEN IT MEANT SOMETHING!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle vs Taker from SD 03 is amazing, I have yet to watch the HQ version Cal posted for me but I remember it being great every watch. And btw Cal, do you have any more TV matches in good quality that you could post? Specially Raw 2004. Secondly, do you mind if I upload them on youtube? Been uploading lots of 05-06 shit on my "wrestling account" and I'll do so until those pricks give me another strike. (first one finally expired last week from that Raw before SummerSlam 06)



Cactus Jack said:


> You'd guys forgot to mention CM Bork, that dude is the worst. He tries to turn anything and everything into a Punk mark war.


Oh yeah, that idiot. Good thing he got burned fast and fucked off.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Barrett only seems to understand how to wrestle when he faces Sheamus and Bryan. With everybody else, all he does is just act like *a statue or a traffic cone.*


:lmao I hope this is intentional based on my sig. If not then that's even better :lmao.

I have all of Raw 04 on DVD in EXCELLENT quality so anything from then is available for upload.


----------



## rabidwolverine27 (Apr 2, 2013)

Barrett isn't as bad as Lance Storm or Steve Blackman. Those guys had the charisma of a tree stump.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

The Sandrone said:


> Barrett does actually have a few great matches. Cena at HIAC, Sheamus on their last Main Event match this year (think it was May or something), Bryan at Summerslam a couple of years ago, and I'm sure one of the Orton ones from late 2011-early 2012 has to be up there. There was also a Mysterio one I thought was really good. Not to mention he was the MVP in the World Title chamber match in 2012, which was a great one at that. He does desperately need the right opponent to have a great match, but he's not completely hopeless like Otunga, Khali, etc.
> 
> Sandow... he's underrated in the ring. He only has a couple of singles matches I'd put at ***1/2 (vs. Christian 7/3/13 and vs. Orton 8/12/13) but I was going through his list of matches on cagematch.net the other day, and the guy has a ton of sub-5 minute matches. He rarely has the chance to showcase anything, although when given a shot to go the distance like the two above matches, the Del Rio match on Smackdown a couple of weeks ago, he's perfectly capable of doing well. If he's ever given a proper run in the main event where he gets matches longer than 5 minutes consistently, I'm certain people will warm up to his in-ring work.


I forgot about those Cena matches, His cage match with Bryan this year was :mark: as well so I'll give him that

Is that christian/sandow a sd or main event ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

redskins25 said:


> I forgot about those Cena matches, His cage match with Bryan this year was :mark: as well so I'll give him that
> 
> Is that christian/sandow a sd or main event ?


Main Event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Trust me KillaCal, it was not intentional at all.

Steve Blackman ruled. WWE's first true meme. Can't really think of any good matches off the top of my head, but Head Cheese was hilarious. I'm sure there are some good hardcore matches out there. Somebody should Yeah1993 him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Blackman in the hardcore division > 90% of anyone on the roster today.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Blackman was a nutter. But a bloody entertaining one  Give him a Kendo stick and a trash can lol.

Watched the Blackman/Shane match the other day, really fun still.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Callamus said:


> I have all of Raw 04 on DVD in EXCELLENT quality so anything from then is available for upload.


Alright then, CAL! I have a few requests if you please.

*Orton vs RVD - 12/1*
Benoit vs Flair - 9/2
Benoit vs HBK - 16/2
Evolution vs Foley, Benoit, Shelton & HBK - 12/4
*Benoit vs HBK - 3/5*
*Orton vs Edge - 10/5*
*Benoit & Edge vs Orton & Batista - 17/5*
Benoit & Edge vs La Resistance - 31/5
Orton vs HBK - 7/6
*Benoit, Jericho & Edge vs Evolution - 14/6 & 2/8*
*Benoit vs Kane - 28/6
Orton vs Benoit - 16/8*
Benoit vs HHH vs Edge - 29/11

Bold ones would be specially appreciated!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Chris Jericho - ECW 20/10/2009

:mark:

Jericho showed up to scout talent for Team Smackdown at Bragging Rights, and ended up getting a match with Christian! Not want he wanted but I'm sure happy about it!!! 

Man, the collar and elbow tie up + wrist lock battle to start things off is pretty :mark:. Both guys genuinely look like they are struggling for control, and given that both guys are friends I wouldn't doubt that they were really trying to overpower each other at one point lol. If not then they did one hell of a job making it look like they were. Amazing that it took a match against Jericho for me to see greatness in Christian. I will forever love their WM XX match. Put Christian on the map for me personally and I think it did for his singles career too.

Back body drop over the ropes to the floor is a pretty awesome way to transition into Christian FIP. From here Jericho targets the mid-section of Captain Charisma (seriously... first half of the year was everyone going after his arm... once Swagger left they all went for his mid-section :lmao )

Christian's come back is sweet as usual, and I love Jericho's counter from the Killswitch. Instead of just pushing Christian forward after he's turned around, he DECKS Christian in the back of the neck with an elbow! Just a little thing that adds so much. 

:lmao Enziguri from Jericho that COMPLETELY MISSES CHRISTIAN'S HEAD. But Christian is such a great seller he sells it anyway .

Finishing stretch is what puts this match over the top. It's really fucking great without relying on... any finisher kick outs and shit. It ends with the FIRST Killswitch, but everything to get there was awesome. Just another great TV match from Christian on ECW in 2009!!!

Rating: ***1/2

Sheamus Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 27/10/2009

Another of the MANY well built TV feuds from ECW in 09. Let's see if THE GREAT WHITE and THE GOLDEN STANDARD can deliver in a match!

Both guys bring the HATE~! from the get go and BOTH guys look pretty vicious throwing shots at each other. Springboard moonsault to the outside and Shelton lands KNEE FIRST IN SHEAMUS' HEAD.

Sheamus responds by smashing Shelton's face into the ring post and then slams him back first into it to follow up. SHEAMUS :mark:. I am really gonna need to check out his Raw stuff in 09/early '10 to see what he was like because he is fucking KILLING IT on offence during his time on ECW but I remember him being sucky when he was the WWE champ the first time around.

Overhead Belly to Belly is a comeback spot from Shelton. They trade punches when they both get to their feet and they really fucking lay it in to each other. Shelton continues his comeback using his speed and agility, sticking to his STRENGTHS which is good. Oh man that sequence into a German Suplex is awesome. Shelton is looking just as good as Sheamus.

Yet to be named Brogue Kick finishes off Shelton. Great match and a great pay off to their TV feud!!!

Rating: ***1/2

Christian Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW Title Match - ECW 27/10/2009

Yoshi has been built up really well over the last month, picking up wins against Regal, big tag match wins, and just looking good in general. Nice video package during the show to hype him up too. Its things like this that make me miss WWECW so fecking much!!! 

Slow feeling out process to start things off as both guys are babyfaces and friends and shit. Christian being the veteran and all gets the early advantage but Yoshi regroups quickly and puts some heat on the champion, getting a couple of quick near falls, causing Christian to back off!!!

Yoshi makes a mistake and the VETERAN Christian is more than capable of taking advantage of it. Nasty bump to the floor off a missed crossbody by Yoshi, looks like he lands HARD on his knee too.

Christian works on offence mainly in this one, and like his selling, he's really good. Yoshi's comeback is like, awesome as shit. He shows that he's learning from the Veteran in this match and starts to counter Christian during some of his signature moves, and good god Yoshi on offence is :mark:. Big kicks and a fucking LARIATOOOOOOOOOOOOO that looked incredible considering his size lol.

I know I've been :mark: 'ing over finishing stretches from the last few matches, but by god this one rocks, rolls and rules every planet in the solar system. A bunch of great near falls where Yoshi could have believably WON the ECW title. Man, Christian could make ANYONE look great. Yoshi, Ryder, Kozlov, Zeke, Swagger, Dreamer... the list can go on. 

This match is pretty incredible. Christian ruled. Yoshi ruled. Whole thing was worked wonderfully with Christian as the experienced Veteran getting the better of the rookie early on, then the rookie slowly beginning to learn and get better as the match went on and in the end became a viable contender for the title before succumbing to the champ.

Rating: ***3/4


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That flair/benoit has peaked my interest


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

04 "On his way to WM Main Event" Benoit Vs OLD MAN FLAIR is great.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There arent that many things better than old man flair tbhayley

I thought you were talking about christian/y2j wm 20 at first


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Glad I missed these last few pages. Screw marks; it doesn't matter who is the worker in question, the annoyance is always the same. K. Now lets talk straight up 'rasslin.

Goldust vs Rollins tonight :mark:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Nothing like some good mark wars and/or people embarrassing themselves on the Internet. I've decided that staying out of the RATINGS~! thread, and off of Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook has made me a much better person. :cena3

Whoops, forgot to download a PPV to watch during my night class, and my campus's terrible Wi-Fi prevents me from watching it on YouTube. Next week!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

DID SOMEONE MENTION GOLDUST? 

William Regal Vs Goldust - ECW 03/11/2009

Man, ECW just keeps throwing awesome fucking matches at me! Awesome on paper, anyway, but the last 3 have all delivered and then some, so I have FAITH!

:mark: so this is delivering and then some :mark:. Goldust just brutalises poor Regal early on with punches right to the face. Love Regal screaming in terror any time Goldust is about to do something to him. Just amazing. Regal then gets a big forearm smash to Goldust's face and oh sweet jebus, Regal looking fucking DISGUSTED as he has to wipe some gold paint off his elbow pad is quite possibly THE GREATEST THING EVER.

Regal roughs Goldust up a bit with a submission hold, Goldust makes a bit of a comeback and then BAM. KNEE TREMBLER out of nowhere and Goldust is DONE. Would have loved another 828774663 hours added on to the match but for the time they got they fucking DELIVERED AND THEN SOME. That should be the tag line for ECW 09.

ECW 09: DELIVERED AND THEN SOME.

Rating: ***1/4

Christian & Yoshi Tatsu Vs Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 03/11/2009

Great BIG MAN Vs little man stuff at the start with Zeke and Yoshi. Yoshi shows up Zeke so Vlad demands a tag to show him how it's done. HEADBUTT. Yoshi is fucked.

Yoshi takes a beating, as the 2 power houses just maul the absolute shit out of him. It's nothing overly special, but good enough. Hot tag to Christian and things can pick up again as we roll into the finish of a somewhat short main event. Could have done without the Lance Archer squash beforehand lol.

Zeke is taken out with a double team effort, then Christian hits the Killswitch on Kozlov for the win. Match is fine.

Rating: **


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If the match was Regal only doing his facial expressions & Goldust throwing punches it would still be excellent. True fact.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Speaking of 2009 ECW, SHEAMUS SHAVED HIS MUSTACHE. :angle2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Primer said:


> If the match was Regal only doing his facial expressions & Goldust throwing punches it would still be excellent. True fact.


THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH.

:mark: I'm up to 10/11/2009 ECW. CHRISTIAN VS REGAL. SHEFFIELD ENGLAND. THE SHOW I ATTENDED LIVE. FAP FAP FAP.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Struggling to get through HIAC 2012. Matches have been okay, but I'm having issues staying focused. Looking forward to Show/Sheamus though.

JR/JBL/Cole are a pretty good commentary team.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal did you love their match following SummerSlam too? b/c that's the one that most never bring up in the same breath as Breaking Point or in England. It's just as great, I'd say.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, absolutely loved it and can't believe it didn't happen at SS. Gave it ***3/4, still behind Breaking Point and no doubt will be behind the England match once I watch it again :mark:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Finally got around to watching the Armageddon 2007 Triple Threat Undertaker vs Batista vs Edge that Cal was pimping a while ago.

I have to say, this was damn good. And no, it wasn't just Undertaker carrying everyone, even though he did shine brightest, Edge and Batista carried their end. I loved the sneaky shit the Rated R Superstar character did, and it was on full display in this match. Edge sneaks out of the ring while Taker has Batista locked in the triangle, then rings the bell to make Taker think Batista submitted, then comes in and spears Taker while he is distracted with the ref. I wish Edge's spear didn't look so wimpy, he did a serious disservice 90% of the time to what should be a bad ass move. I think this match was also the first time Edge subbed in the "Fake" Edge's, Curt Hawkins and Zack Ryder. Sadly, this was probably both guys career highlight, impersonating Edge. Eh, fuck sadly, both those guys suck and got what the career they deserved. Anyway, this match didn't follow the typical 3 way formula of 2 guys in the ring while another waits outside the ring, they managed to keep all guys pretty well involved at all times. Unless it was a time Edge was being sneaky and trying to set stuff up, but that fit his character and the story of the match.

Highly enjoyable affair all the way around, ***1/2-***3/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Callamus said:


> Aye, absolutely loved it and can't believe it didn't happen at SS. Gave it ***3/4, still behind Breaking Point and no doubt will be behind the England match once I watch it again :mark:.


It was Hardy vs Henry all over again one year later. How does such booking occur? 

(Y) for digging it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fook knows, but it made the ECW TV shows all the more better lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only for them to remove it. 8*D

Vince probably wasn't happy the C-list show was the A-list in terms of quality & entertainment.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Old bastard. I HATE YOU VINCE.

Man, was ANYONE better than Christian in 2009? Sure Punk in terms of character, and Rey was having great matches, but did ANYONE even remotely come close to CHRISTIAN when it came down to sheer match quality and match performances?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Despite the points you made & a few others around, no way. 2009 was Christian's year. And some uber fans were pissy b/c he didn't debut as the guy who assaulted Jeff Hardy + was "regulated" to ECW. Little did they know the reason for that was to build the entire brand around him & allow him have his best career year. Oh, irony.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Its even more amazing that he was having such incredible matches against mostly rookies too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Callamus said:


> Man, was ANYONE better than Christian in 2009? Sure Punk in terms of character, and Rey was having great matches, but did ANYONE even remotely come close to CHRISTIAN when it came down to sheer match quality and match performances?


I need to watch Rey's whole year to be sure but I doubt it. Said this before but I'm pretty sure I'd have Christian 09 as a top ten WWE ring year ever (if your counting one per wrestler, otherwise probably not).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Hardy maybe considering he was only there till August. Only bad match was backlash I quit, then 2 awesome Edge matches, and then the sick feud with Punk to end his career in the WWE.

Nah Christian still wins


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Paul Burchill Vs Goldust - 10/11/2009

Oh hey so I was in the crowd for this show . Never made it on camera though. RASISTS!!!

:lmao god I hate when WWE come to the UK and try to make everything about football. THE SHEFFIELD FANS ARE BOOING BURCHILL COS HE FROM CHELSEA AND THEY HAVE RIVALRY WITH EACH OTHER. I don't even know if that's fucking true :lmao. Nor do I care. EITHER WAY STOP IT. I don't see Punk getting booed in... some place that hates... whatever team he fucking supports. And I don't hear the commentators mentioning it either.

Goldust gets some shit in early on, but it quickly goes to a Burchill control segment where he really fucking works the mid section over and gets some wicked shots in on him, all the while Goldust screams in fucking pain and I love it :mark:.

Then Hurricane shows up to ruin the whole thing. FINAL CUT by Goldust which is a twisting suplex, and this is over. FUCK YOU HURRICANE. Match was short but decent. Could have done with a proper finish.

Rating: **

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW Title Match - 10/11/2009

:mark: I WAS THERE FOR THIS MATCH LIVE :mark:.

I remember when I bought tickets for the Raw/SD/EC/Superstars tapings back in April/May and thinking "How awesome would it be for a Christian Vs Swagger match?". Then Swagger moved to Raw and I got worried we might get something like Christian Vs Ryder. Then they announced Christian Vs Regal. :mark:

HEY COMMENTATORS ARE SOME PEOPLE BOOING REGAL BECAUSE SHEFFIELD HATES BLACKPOOL?

Hyped AS FUCK to watch this again :mark:. Love that we started getting the UK TV tapings released on DVD. Awesome owning the shows you went to. Still wish they'd release some older ones too. NOVEMBER 2005 PLEASE.

Regal's strikes look even more brutal than usual. Must be that Yorkshire air. Those fucking EUROPEAN UPPERCUTS, MAN! And those ELBOW SHOTS.

Regal has been making Christian's life hell for ages now, constantly attacking him after matches etc until he finally got an ECW title match. I love that the first time Christian gets a little comeback in, he does the old "stand on opponent's back while throat is over the ropes" spot... then instead of setting him up for a fancy move or something he does it again to PUNISH the Englishman for all the shit he's caused.

:mark: that exploder suplex on the floor :mark:. Now that's how you do a fucking cut off spot.

:mark: Christian gets another hope spot in with some big punches to the gut and face of Regal, only to turn around and walk right into a running elbow to the face. Regal's cut off spots are :mark:.

Christian is great in this no doubt but my god Regal is just GODLY. His strikes look vicious, his cut off spots are immense, and even a pin attempt from him looks NASTY.

Speaking of NASTY, the Half Nelson Suplex. Oh god the Half Nelson Suplex. Might be the best ever lol. Regal is practically TORTURING Christian.

Holy shit, the KILLSWITCH hope spot. How fucking awesome was that? Regal is smashing Christian with elbow shots to the back of the neck, and OUT OF NOWHERE Christian just gets fucked off and with a burst of energy drives Regal FACE FIRST to the match in one of the NASTIEST Killswitches I've seen. Regal ain't the only one who can be nasty!!!

We get a BUNCH of hope spots in this match by Christian, which I think is great because he IS the champ afterall and making him look strong despite taking a beating is great booking. Plus all the great hope spots lead to tremendous cut off spots, and those combined with Regal's pure VICIOUSNESS AND NASTINESS on offence = one of my absolute all time favourite matches EVER. Being there live just adds to the whole experience lol as I can still remember watching this from the cheap seats back in 2009.

Finishing stretch is yet another incredible part of this match. It really could have gone either way and they did a wonderful job of making sure you never knew if Regal was gonna get the big win in his home country or if Christian was going to retain. In the end of course, Christian does retain.

:mark: I love this more and more every time I see it. It's NECK AND NECK with the Swagger match in Feb. That's how fucking good this is. Regal looks like the best in the fucking world in this match. Christian is excellent too, I don't think I mentioned enough how good he truly was, but that's only because Regal was EVEN BETTER. They put on a world class performance, and honestly, I'm doing it. I'm putting it AHEAD OF THE SWAGGER MATCH.

Rating: ****1/2


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

other than the cage match with Punk I think I'd put like Christian's 15th best match of 09 over Hardy's #1 best. What does Hardy have going for him off of PPV in 09? (kinda sounds rhetorical but isn't - somebody know o his TV stuff? I remember some OK things but nothing really really good)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hardy on PPV... Edge at RR is really good. EC he was good in that. WM with Matt is really good. After that... a whole lot of averageness. TLC gets a ton of love but I just don't care for it. As for TV stuff... can't think of anything off the top of my head outside of the stretcher match with Matt.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I as asked this in another thread, if HHH never got hurt in 07, who would have been Shawns opponent for WM 23? I've always wondered this, maybe Edge?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I as asked this in another thread, if HHH never got hurt in 07, who would have been Shawns opponent for WM 23? I've always wondered this, maybe Edge?


Think he was gonna be part of the BATTLE OF THE MILLIONAIRE VS BILLIONAIRE BUT TO MAKE IT SOUND BETTER WE'LL CLAIM VINCE IS STILL A BILLIONAIRE TOO match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Think he was gonna be part of the BATTLE OF THE MILLIONAIRE VS BILLIONAIRE BUT TO MAKE IT SOUND BETTER WE'LL CLAIM VINCE IS STILL A BILLIONAIRE TOO match.




Cal, is this the Christian/Regal match you just reviewed? Haven't seen that one, just breaking point which I consider one of the top 5 ECW matches, of the ones I've seen of course.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aAZElTazK_A

Edit- never mind it is, I'm watching it now and it fits the review you gave. Fucking right, I don't know how I missed the existence of this match. Don't you just love finding a hidden classic you've some how missed for years? Maybe Cal, Yeah, and Hayley don't know what I'm talking about because they've seen everything, but man it's great


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Callamus said:


> Think he was gonna be part of the BATTLE OF THE MILLIONAIRE VS BILLIONAIRE BUT TO MAKE IT SOUND BETTER WE'LL CLAIM VINCE IS STILL A BILLIONAIRE TOO match.




Well I thought that was supposed to be Khali/ Hogan which would have been a fucking nightmare. 

I would think Edge or Kennedy would have gotten the nod for HBK, edge was a star and they were ridiculously high on Kennedy at that time.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yep that's part 2 of the match I just reviewed. Can tell from the UK titan tron .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Yep that's part 2 of the match I just reviewed. Can tell from the UK titan tron .


See my edit, ya jerk 

So pumped for this. Bet it was so sick to see Regal have a classic match live on his home turf. Is he pretty much beloved by everyone over there, ala Davey boy in the early 90s?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Can't think of any memorable TV matches from Hardy in 2009 outside of the Steel Cage match with Punk. He was involved in a solid Fatal Four Way elimination match against Mysterio, Jericho, and Kane from Smackdown. I also recall him being involved in a good tag match with Rey Mysterio against Jericho and Ziggler from Smackdown but I haven't seen that one since the first watch. 

Hardy's 2008 though. Loads of great TV matches he was involved in.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Buggered if I know . I only know one wrestling fan IRL and I don't think he likes Regal that much (he's mostly the stereotypical "mark" which makes conversations between us about wrestling HILARIOUS to our other friends ). The crowd were very much split for Christian and Regal that night though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hardy had a lot of good TV matches in 2009

vs. Morrison (7/28)
vs. Jericho (7/21, 5/5)
vs. Punk (Cage, 8/4)
vs. Punk/Edge (6/15)
vs. Edge (5/19)
vs. Kane/Jericho/Mysterio
w/Punk vs. Jericho/Edge (6/30)

Smackdown in 2009 in general never failed. Until HE came :taker


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yep I can see that.

Jesus, that was absolutely bad ass. Regal was as vicious and nasty as I've seen him. One of my favorite things in all of wrestling is when a face thinks he's gaining some steam, giving Regal punches/kicks/forearms or whatever, and Regal just comes back with a massive fuck off shot via an uppercut/clothesline/elbow shiv. It makes me smile every time. 

Question though? What in the hell was that amazing suplex type move Regal gave Christian about 10 minutes in? It looked absolutely glorious, I don't think I've ever seen that move done before. He follows it up with the full Nelson on the ground if you are wondering what part I'm talking about.

I also love that Regal took a page out of the Eddie Guerrero Heel Manual when he had Christian perched on the corner, the ref called for the clean break, Regal feigned liked he was going to back off then just gave him a shove off the top to the outside :lmao. I'm sure Eddie didn't invent that, but it's probably one of my favorite spots ever when he does it to Rey in their Smackdown match and makes those awesome expressions before and after.

There was just a lot of awesome here. I'd love to see how many bruises Christian had the day after this match, Regal was stifling the hell out of him, especially when he had him on the ground, his neck wrenched, and he just teed off mercilessly on Christians torso.

I think I'd say for me this was around ****-****1/4, can't decide if I like this or Breaking Point better. I'm gonna have to watch Breaking Point now I spose.


Edit-just read you're review in full, I didn't want to ruin it before I just saw the rating you gave it and immediately searched for it. I can see we like a lot of the same things about it, Regals cut offs are some of the best ever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HALF NELSON SUPLEX. One of my all time absolute favourite moves :mark:. Given it to my CAW on ever WWE game it's been available on lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> HALF NELSON SUPLEX. One of my all time absolute favourite moves :mark:. Given it to my CAW on ever WWE game it's been available on lol.


That's what it was? I've definitely seen a half Nelson suplex before, but the way Christian bumped for it made it look twice as devastating as any of the other ones I'd seen. Plus the fact that it was big bad Regal giving it to him. Jesus that was a sick move. And that Exploder Suplex on the outside :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Regal is pretty much the KING of the HNS.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Hell yeah. Regal's Half Nelson Suplex on Punk in their IC title match in 2009 is dope.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Not really in a wrestling mood, and this is my day off so it sucks even more, btw rollins/goldust was longer than 5 mins


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watch the WOrld Series! My Red Sox are in it!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian & R-Truth Vs William Regal & CM Punk - ECW 17/11/2009

Fuck me, how OUT OF PLACE does R-Truth look in this match? :lmao

Ah well the other 3 talents should make this :mark: worthy. All build for the Survivor Series tag.

Christian and Punk to start things off :mark:. Punk slaps Christian so Christian DECKS Punk, then drags Regal into the match for the hell of it and he and Truth hit stereo missile drop kicks to send the heels out of the ring!

I thought Truth was gonna screw this one up but thanks to a great little cut off spot from Regal on the outside followed by some REGAL VICIOUSNESS and Truth doing a good job of selling the knee, this one turned out alright! Surprisingly it was PUNK who honestly didn't add much, but that's only because it wasn't a long match and Regal spent most of the time in the ring. Christian didn't get much time in either but he comes off the hot tag and he rules with that so yeah . Love him constantly going after Regal on the apron too. He won the title match last week but he still wants to get his shots in for the months of shit he put him through.

The finish. Oh my. THE FINISH. Just incredible. Christian gets a near fall on Punk, Regal breaks it up causing Truth to knock Regal down, but his knee is still FUCKED so he ends up in the fetal position on the mat. Christian goes for a Killswitch, but as he turns Punk around he gets BLASTED by Regal and a KNEE TREMBLER... all the while PUNK HOLDS ON TO CHRISTIAN'S ARM, and nails him with a GTS... which Christian sells like the GOAT motherfucker he was in 2009. Someone get me a fucking cigarette!

Rating: **1/2

William Regal Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 24/11/2009

Bah, not much time left on the show for this match, but hey, if anyone can have a GREAT short TV match, it's William fucking Regal. And these two have produced some good short matches already on ECW.

EUROPEAN UPPERCUT EXCHANGES. Tastu gets the better of Regal and then UNLOADS on him with kicks :mark:. Then he runs into an ELBOW TO THE FACE :mark:. Regal claims that a win here over Tatsu will get him back into the ECW title scene so he's gonna do everything to win. And by everything, I'm fairly certain smashing Tatsu's head in with elbows until he reaches the brain is what Regal has planned.

Vlad shoves Yoshi off the ropes for Regal to continue his assault, but Yoshi manages to nail Regal in the head with a kick and once again gets a surprise victory over the Englishman!!!

Only lasts 3 minutes but it's still fucking good! :lmao at Vlad trying to blame Zeke after the match. Zeke doesn't take kindly to lies and hits him with his finisher. Regal ends up shitting himself as he thinks Zeke is gonna attack him too. And he was right because he does .

Rating: **

William Regal Vs Goldust - ECW 01/12/2009

:mark: another match between these two? FUCK YES!!!

Golust is PISSED because Regal decked him with a KNEE TREMBLER on Superstars following a match with Kozlov. Regal pays with some awesome Goldust punches, that he sells like DEATH.

:lmao at seeing Regal's leg spread open on the ropes ready to receive Shattered Dreams. WHO KNEW REGAL WAS SO FLEXIBLE? 

The distraction from Zeke and Vlad (who are working together still for now) allows Regal to escape and BAM! He murders Goldust with en EPIC elbow to the face. I could watch Regal smash people in the face with his elbow all day long.

Gotta love Regal. No reason. Just gotta fucking love him. Oh, I guess you could point to him doing shit like elbowing his opponent in the head while applying submission holds. That's awesome .

Regal is setting Goldust up for the KNEE TREMBLER, but Vlad and Zeke are having an argument on the outside which distracts him an Goldust rolls him up for the win!

Yet another good match between these two. Another short match too but damn they do so much greatness anyway.

Rating: ***

Christian & Shelton Benjamin Vs Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 01/12/2009

Zeke and Vlad are having problems, while Shelton is the #1 contender to Christian's ECW title and they will meet in a ladder match at TLC (which I really don't want to watch again... but it's a Christian ECW title match in 09... should I just watch it anyway for the sake of it?).

Zeke is frustrated as hell from all the problems with Vlad and he's here to take them out on Christian and Shelton. And he looks like a fucking BEAST as he does it too. Vlad doesn't get a look in until near the end! 

Man oh man, the shot from Shelton that Zeke takes is INSANE. Shelton leaps onto the top rope and dives back with an ax handle smash or something, and holy FUCK it looks like Shelton full on smashed into his head. AND IT DOESN'T EVEN BUDGE THE GUY. Takes a crossbody from Christian to take him off his feet!!! And even then, Zeke kicks out and goes right back to work demolishing his opponents, along with Vlad finally getting a tag in at one point but not doing much.

Christian becomes FIP for some awesome offense by Zeke, and even ends up being driven shoulder first into the ring post by Regal, who does it just because he can lol. Nice to see someone target Christian's shoulder again!

Kozlov tags himself in and looks pretty good for the short time he's on offence before he fucks up and Christian makes a comeback just enough for a hot tag! Vlad ties to tag in Zeke but he fucks off, leaving Vlad to lose to Shelton!

Have to see I wasn't expecting too much from this, just because I thought we'd get some short, crappy match with Zeke and Vlad bitching at each other all the time. Instead it got more time than I realised and the shit between Vlad and Zeke was kept simple and executed extremely well, combined with some REALLY GOOD work inside the ring.

Rating: ***1/4

Christian, Shelton Benjamin & Yoshi Tatsu Vs William Regal, Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 08/12/2009

:mark: looks like a great match on paper!!!

Christian and Zeke start things off, and they pick right back up where they left off last week :mark:. Zeke looks great and Christian sells great. Then Regal tags in and we get more Christian Vs Regal :mark:. Hell any combination we get in this match is bound to be fun in some way!

Regal deserves to headline a HOF class based on his running elbow to the face alone. It is just incredible every time I see it. 

Cool little spot where Vlad drives Shelton into the heel corner, and while Regal and Zeke are showing the ref they aren't getting any cheap shots in... Shelton actually fights out and avoids a tag being made! Nice twist on a typical spot.

All 3 heels work really well, with Regal being awesome as usual, Zeke picking up his game again and Vlad sticking to the few things he's actually good at. Shelton as the FIP is pretty good too, I often forget that there were periods of time when he WAS talented lol. Vlad with a bearhug on the mat and Shelton trying to crawl over to his corner with Vlad on his back is sweeeet. Kozlov really looks good in here on offence, keeping stuff simple and working his power and mat offence really well. I think tag matches are great for making certain guys look really good because their time in the ring is usually limited, allowing them to stick to what they CAN do well and that's it.

Great hot tag to Yoshi who starts to chop down Big Zeke, only to run right into a killer clothesline. Zeke looks to tag out to Vlad, and Vlad fucks off!!! Zeke chases him down and attacks him, while Regal tries to get him back to the ring. Referee counts Zeke out and the faces get the win!

Finish, well I could have done with a proper finish, but given that they were building to the break up of the Ruthless Roundtable I guess I'm ok with it. Rest of the match is too awesome to be ruined by a countout finish anyway. Loved this!

Rating: ***1/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Watching Rumble 2002 while watching the world series too. Should get through Rock/Jericho at least and will watch the rumble tomorrow or Friday. Pretty decent PPV so far, lets hope Flair/Vince isn't a flat out DUD.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

After reading Cal's reviews there and having 3 classes cancelled in 2 days, I think I know what I'm watching tomorrow.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vince/Flair kinda rules. Better than the shitfest between Vince and Hogan at WM 19.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Vince/Hogan's fun! a good *** match IMO


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Brye said:


> After reading Cal's reviews there and having 3 classes cancelled in 2 days, I think I know what I'm watching tomorrow.


:mark:

Well damn, THREE ECW 09 SHOWS LEFT!!! I'm... I'm finally gonna fully complete a project. THE FUCK?

Gonna do it tonight too!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Vince/Flair ruled, really fun match. Rock/Jericho up now :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW Title Ladder Match - TLC 13/12/2009

Well I know this sucks, BUT I feel I should watch it anyway, because it's a CHRISTIAN ECW TITLE MATCH ON PPV IN 2009. Who knows maybe all the problems with somehow not seem so bad this time around...

Christian spends the first few minutes of the match essentially on defence, just trying to prevent Shelton from getting the ladder first because with his speed and athleticism, one mistake and Shelton could be up the ladder in no time at all! And this is proven when Christian gets the ladder set up first, goes for a monkey flip which simply sends Shelton into the ladder where he lands on it and starts climbing!!!

*sigh* and then Christian gets busted open, forcing a doctor to come down and close it up, while Shelton has to stand around like a pleb. CLIMB THE LADDER!!!

Oh hey, Shelton starts to climb a ladder! ON THE OUTSIDE. FOR NO REASON. Christian drags him down and buggers off elsewhere... only for Shelton to climb the ladder again and dive off onto Christian who was... I dunno, wasting time. Seems the cut completely screwed both guys up because THEY AIN'T GOT NO CLUE right now lol. Oh, and Matt Striker, fuck off. "TLC MOMENT FOR SHELTON!!!". Piss off.

Oh my, THAT was a cool spot. And only really because the ladder was close to wiping out the crowd . Christian kicks Shelton back into a ladder that's standing up, and the ladder just flies backwards and barely stops thanks to the barricade lol.

Urgh, Shelton what are you doing? Some of the worst ladder uses I've seen. He puts the ladder against the ropes... then pulls the ropes to send the ladder into Christian's face. JUST SMASH HIS FACE WITH THE LADDER YOURSELF. THE ROPES ARE DOING NOTHING YOU DUMB FUCK.

Ooooo that was a cool spot. Shelton is on the ladder while it's closed up, but standing upright, and he lets the ladder free fall with him on it and he comes crashing down with a CLOTHESLINE to Christian.

What? Why? Shelton grabs the belt, and Christian takes the ladder out from under him... and puts it in the corner. Then goes to the other corner and grabs a SMALLER LADDER to hit Shelton with. Which doesn't work so he GRABS THE BIG LADDER AND SETS IT UP AGAIN ALLOWING SHELTON TO STAND ON IT AGAIN. 

Christian ends up hanging from the title and falls right into a POWERBOMB from Shelton, who powerbombs him into the small ladder that Christian set back up in the corner! Then Shelton tries for another powerbomb off a ladder, and Christian being all VETERAN is able to counter this time!

Crossbody through a ladder. Christian killed Shelton. He climbs the ladder in the ring and wins.

Overall... this is half a good match and half a fucking DUMB PILE OF SHIT. It's like for every good thing they do, they have to cancel it out with something retarded and shitty. Disappointing still.

Rating: **

Ezekiel Jackson Vs Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 15/12/2009

Winner goes through to the next round or whatever of the "ECW Homecoming" tournament to decide a #1 contender!

Bah, short match. They clobber each other for a minute or two, then Regal trips Vlad and helps Zeke win! A little disappointed, was hoping for a fun big man match but they ended it before it really got started .

Rating: 1/4*

Goldust Vs Vance Archer - ECW 22/12/2009

Well, never expected to watch a Vance Archer match! Another ECW Homecoming match.

Archer seems to just club away at Goldust and uses the same submission hold which isn't amazing or anything. He doesn't look BAD, but after watching the likes of Sheamus and Regal use basically strikes and submission holds against Goldust, Archer looks about as average as they come lol.

Goldust sells well, Archer doesn't do anything bad, then he picks up the win. Match is just there.

Rating: *

Jack Swagger Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 22/12/2009

Poor Swagger. He comes back for the Homecoming tournament and you gotta think he's thinking "PLEASE DON'T LET ME LEAVE" because at the time he was going absolutely NOWHERE on Raw lol. He ends up with a random WHC run in 2010 and ECW dies in Feb, but still .

Swaggie out-classes Yoshi early on with his wrestling skills on the mat, and combines that with some big clubbing blows too. Yoshi can't get anything together until he counters a Gutwrench powerbomb and goes for a huge kick, and even though Swagger avoids it he looks like his life just flashed before his eyes!!!

Commercial break, and we come back to Swagger destroying Yoshi again lol, and he's doing it really well! The mid-section is the target here, setting up well for the Gutwrench. Swagger is cocky as fuck, doing pressups in the middle of his offence. I miss Swagger. He's looking better these days teaming with Cesaro but Cesaro needs to be singles and hell so does Swagger.

Swagger managing to avoid those big kicks of Tatsu make him look BOSS, but as the match goes on he can't avoid them any longer and Yoshi begins to make his comeback!

But even with Yoshi landing some blows, any time he goes for a finishing blow Swagger sees it coming and avoids it time and time again. He really looks like the Veteran in the match despite the fact Yoshi isn't much newer than Swagger, but being a former ECW champ Swagger IS the more experienced wrestler in the match.

OH MAN, that near fall from the clothesline to the BACK of Yoshi's head. OKLAHOMA STAMPEDE!!!

Swagger spends too much time arguing with the referee over a 2 count... and Yoshi finally lands that big kick and he picks up the win! DAMN, Yoshi got put over HUGE on ECW in 09. He beat Regal about 5 times including tags, had an incredibly competitive match with Christian for the ECW title and now he's beaten Swagger. And then he disappeared.

Match was really good! Made me miss ECW Swagger though .

Rating: ***

Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - ECW 29/12/2009

:mark: what a way to finish off the year! And there is still an Evan Bourne match to go too! Man, this Homecoming tournament was :mark:.

Finlay smashing Hardy's knee into the mat from the ropes is fucking awesome. Looks BRUTAL and Matt sells it amazingly. Matt is currently in his "slightly overweight" stage, so not full blown FAT Hardy but not exactly the Matt Hardy who was ECW champion in 08.

Finlay is still just Finlay. Like Regal he just doesn't age in terms of ring work.

Love Finlay kicking the back of the knee to cut Matt off. Matt keeps fighting, and even after a missed Moonsault he lands an awkward looking Twist of Fate and gets the win seemingly out of nowhere.

Honestly, this ain't good. Finlay's leg work is good but doesn't last long, and Matt honestly looked sloppy with everything he did. Disappointing.

Rating: 3/4*

Evan Bourne Vs Mike Knox - ECW 29/12/2009

:mark: omg please don't disappoint!!!

Knox mauls Bourne. Bourne bumps and sells like only Bourne can. THIS AIN'T DISAPPOINTING :mark:.

Oh man Bourne's quick burst of offence including a diving knee to the face is just tremendous. SHOOTING STAR PRESS. Bourne wins!

Good stuff, but far too short . Knox looks good killing the little guy, and Bourne is believable with his comeback. And THAT is a fun way to end ECW 2009!!!

Rating: **


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Christian Vs William Regal - ECW Title Match - 10/11/2009 - ****1/2 - 7
Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 24/04/2009 - ****1/2 - 7
Christian Vs William Regal - ECW Title Match - Breaking Point 13/09/2009 - ****1/4 - 6
Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - Backlash 26/04/2009 - **** - 5
John Morrison Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 14/04/2009 - **** - 5
Matt Hardy Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - ECW 13/01/2009 - **** - 5
Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Vladimir Kovlov & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 08/09/2009 - **** - 5
Christian Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW Title Match - ECW 27/10/2009 - ***3/4 - 4
Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 03/02/2009 - ***3/4 - 4
Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer - Extreme Rules ECW Title Match - ECW 04/08/2009 - ***3/4 - 4
Christian Vs William Regal - ECW 25/08/2009 - ***3/4 - 4
Christian, Yoshi Tatsu, Tommy Dreamer & Goldust Vs Zack Ryder, William Regal, Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 29/09/2009 - ***1/2 - 3
Goldust Vs Sheamus - No Countout & No DQ Match - ECW 01/09/2009 - ***1/2 - 3
Christian Vs Chris Jericho - ECW 20/10/2009 - ***1/2 - 3
Sheamus Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 27/10/2009 - ***1/2 - 3
William Regal Vs Goldust - ECW 03/11/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 26/05/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Extreme Rules 07/06/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian Vs Jack Swagger - ECW Title Match - Judgment Day 17/05/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian, Shelton Benjamin & Yoshi Tatsu Vs William Regal, Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 08/12/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian & Shelton Benjamin Vs Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 01/12/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs William Regal & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 30/06/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, Tyson Kidd & David Hart Smith - ECW 26/05/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Finlay Vs Christian Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 14/04/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian & Finlay Vs Jack Swagger & Mark Henry - ECW 17/02/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Mark Henry Vs Christian Vs Finlay Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 07/04/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Matt Hardy Vs Mark Henry - ECW 06/01/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Christian Vs Tyson Kidd - ECW 02/06/2009 - ***1/4 - 2
Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW 06/01/2009 - *** - 2
Jack Swagger Vs Matt Hardy – ECW Title - Royal Rumble 25/02/2009 - *** - 2
Jack Swagger Vs Christian - ECW 10/02/2009 - *** - 2
Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 16/06/2009 - *** - 2
Jack Swagger Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 22/12/2009 - *** - 2
Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian Vs Mark Henry Vs Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW Title Scramble Match - The Bash 28/06/2009 - *** - 2
Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - Night of Champions 26/07/2009 - *** - 2
William Regal Vs Goldust - ECW 01/12/2009 - *** - 2
Christian Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 16/06/2009 - *** - 2
Christian Vs Paul Burchill - ECW 19/05/2009 - *** - 2
Tyson Kidd Vs Finlay - ECW 28/04/2009 - *** - 2
Christian & Finlay Vs Mark Henry & Kane - ECW 31/03/2009 - *** - 2
Christian, Finlay & Tommy Dreamer Vs Jack Swagger, The Miz & John Morrison - ECW 03/03/2009 - *** - 2
Mark Henry Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 02/06/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Finlay Vs Christian - Superstars 16/04/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Christian & Tommy Dreamer Vs Mark Henry & Jack Swagger - ECW 05/05/2009 **3/4 - 1
Mark Henry Vs Finlay Vs The Miz Vs John Morrison - ECW 19/01/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Jack Swagger & Mark Henry Vs Christian & Tommy Dreamer - ECW 23/06/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 14/07/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Christian Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 28/07/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Christian Vs Zack Ryder - ECW Title Match - 22/09/2009 - **3/4 - 1
William Regal & Vladimir Kozlov Vs Christian & Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 18/08/2009 - **3/4 - 1
Christian & R-Truth Vs William Regal & CM Punk - ECW 17/11/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Goldust Vs Sheamus - ECW 04/08/2009 - **1/2 - 1
William Regal Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 21/07/2009 - **1/2 - 1
William Regal Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 06/10/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Tyson Kidd Vs Finlay - ECW 12/05/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Paul Burchill Vs Finlay - ECW 17/03/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 27/01/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Christian & Jack Swagger Vs The Hart Dynasty - ECW 09/06/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Jack Swagger & Tyson Kidd Vs Tommy Dreamer & Evan Bourne - ECW 24/03/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Finlay Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 23/06/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Shelton Benjamin Vs Vladimir Kozlov Vs Ezekiel Jackson Vs Yoshi Tatsu Vs Paul Burchill Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Goldust Vs Tyler Reks Vs Sheamus Vs Zack Ryder - #1 Contenders Battle Royal Match - ECW 15/09/2009 - **1/2 - 1
Christian Vs Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 07/07/2009 - **1/4 - 1
Goldust Vs Sheamus - ECW 28/07/2009 - **1/4 - 1
Goldust Vs Ezekiel Jackson - ECW 13/10/2009 - **1/4 - 1
Christian Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 06/10/2009 - **1/4 - 1
Paul Burchill Vs Evan Bourne - 21/04/2009 - **1/4 - 1
Christian Vs Mark Henry - ECW 05/05/2009 - ** - 0.5
Mark Henry Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 12/05/2009 - ** - 0.5
Jamie Noble Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 17/03/2009 - ** - 0.5
Christian & MVP Vs Mark Henry & Shelton Benjamin - ECW 17/03/2009 - ** - 0.5
Sheamus Vs Goldust - ECW 25/08/2009 - ** - 0.5
Evan Bourne Vs Tyson Kidd - ECW 23/06/2009 - ** - 0.5
William Regal Vs Tommy Dreamer - ECW 11/08/2009 - ** - 0.5
Christian & Yoshi Tatsu Vs Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 03/11/2009 - ** - 0.5
William Regal Vs Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 24/11/2009 - ** - 0.5
Christian & Yoshi Tatsu Vs William Regal & Zack Ryder - ECW 13/10/2009 - ** - 0.5
Sheamus & Shelton Benjamin Vs Golust & Yoshi Tatsu - ECW 08/09/2009 - ** - 0.5
Evan Bourne Vs Mike Knox - ECW 29/12/2009 - ** - 0.5
JTG Vs Shad Vs Vladimir Kozlov Vs Christian Vs William Regal Vs The Great Khali Vs R-Truth Vs Goldust Vs Dolph Ziggler Vs Tommy Dreamer Vs Paul Burchill Vs Charlie Hass Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Ricky Ortiz Vs Jimmy Wang Yang Vs Kung Funaki - Tri-Branded Money in the Bank Qualifying Battle Royal - ECW 10/03/2009 - ** - 0.5
Finlay Vs Paul Burchill - ECW 27/01/2009 - ** - 0.5
Paul Burchill Vs Goldust - 10/11/2009 - ** - 0.5
Tony Atlas Vs Evan Bourne - ECW 09/06/2009 - ** - 0.5
Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW Title Ladder Match - TLC 13/12/2009 - ** - 0.5
Tommy Dreamer Vs Christian - ECW Title Match - ECW 28/04/2009 - *1/2 - 0.5
Jack Swagger Vs Finlay - ECW Title Match - No Way Out 15/02/2009 - * - 0
Goldust & Tommy Dreamer Vs Ezekiel Jackson & Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 06/10/2009 - * - 0
Goldust Vs Vance Archer - ECW 22/12/2009 - * - 0
Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - ECW 29/12/2009 - 3/4* - 0
Finlay Vs David Hart Smith - ECW 19/05/2009 - 1/2* - 0
Goldust Vs Shelton Benjamin - ECW 21/07/2009 - 1/2* - 0
William Regal Vs The Hurricane - ECW 15/09/2009 - 1/2*
Goldust Vs Zack Ryder - ECW 14/07/2009 - 1/4* - 0
Ezekiel Jackson Vs Vladimir Kozlov - ECW 15/12/2009 - 1/4* - 0
Mark Henry Vs Santino Marella - Money in the Bank Qualifying Match - ECW 03/03/2009 - 1/4* - 0
Christian Vs William Regal - ECW Title Match - SummerSlam 23/08/2009 - DUD - 0


Overall - 155


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All hail KillaCal for finishing his tremendous ECW 2009 project. Let us all learn something from him and finish our respective projects in a timely manner (looking at you, man born in 1993 :side. I can't wait to check out all the matches from that year.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

KINGCAL. Since you didn't address it, will you upload the 04 matches I requested? And to be sure, do you mind if I upload your HQ vids on youtube?  (THE PEOPLE DESERVE BENOIT/HHH IRONMAN IN HQ, DAMMIT!)

About to watch the Jake Roberts DVD now. The content of the documentary seems like it's tough to watch but probably easier now that we know he's been able to recover from his sad state.

Watched Batista's documentary a few days ago too. Excellent stuff that goes in-depth about his personal life as well as most of his career. (Y)


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

I'm impressed that you actually sat through an entire half year's worth of WWECW. Definitely not my cup of tea.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He started in February.......so, yeah, that's actually pretty fucking good. Though he does do that thing where he watches every WrestleMania (and hates like all of them) in a decently shot amount of time. That's impressive as well.


You know what? I was going to listen to Megaman soundtracks but I'm going to turn the laptop off and watch some of Extreme Rules. I some Megaman tracks I really like on mp3 player anyway. I'll probably listen to the Spark Mandrill theme to drown out Matt Striker. Or to distract me from the fact I have to watch another Edge match.


----------



## Alim (Mar 3, 2007)

Currently watching Raw: The Beginning Seasons 1 & 2 and I'm only three matches in, but just finished Perfect/Flair Loser Leaves Town. Definitely the first "great" match in Raw history (though Raw had only existed for like 3 weeks at the time ). 

Yokozuna vs. Koko B. Ware - *1/4**
Undertaker vs. Damien Demento - *1/2**
Ric Flair vs. Mr. Perfect - ******

- Two squash matches to start the set off, but it's obvious why they are on there. Yoko/Koko is the first match in Monday Night Raw history while Taker/Demento is the first main event in Raw history. 

- I had never seen Flair/Perfect but I heard it was awesome, and awesome it was. Great storytelling with Flair living up to his nickname of the "Dirtiest Player in the Game" by cheating on multiple occasions trying to win. Of course, Heenan was gold on commentary as he was heeling it up defending his boy Naitch's actions. Should also be noted that Perfect was busted open in this match, looked like it was legit and certainly wasn't expecting it.

This set is going to be a lot of FUN


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I think that Flair/Perfect match is on the Raw 15 Anniversary set. Love it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You're in for some real treats on that set, Alim. I'm like the biggest fan ever of Bret vs. Fatu (Rikishi) and those Doink matches are completely :mark:. I even liked Luger's matches on there with Diesel and Crush, not to mention HBK/Razor and Bret/Kid. Such a fun set.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Starting the main event of HIAC 2012. Punk's respect gimmick really did have merit. As the champion, he came out first, and was introduced first. fpalm

Ratings and HIAC event stats coming tomorrow probably. Show/Sheamus still rules.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*Clash of the Champions VI: Ragin' Cajun*​
The Midnight Express vs. The Samoan Swat Team - *****

Great Muta vs. Steve Casey - *****

Junkyard Dog vs. Butch Reed - ****

Dick Murdoch vs. Bob Orton Jr. - ****

*NWA World Tag Team Title*
The Road Warriors vs. The Varsity Club - ***3/4*

Ranger Ross vs. Iron Sheik - *DUD*

Eddie Gilbert & Rick Steiner vs. Kevin Sullivan & Dan Spivey - ****

*NWA World Heavyweight Title*
Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat - *Do I really need to say it?*​
-Once again the face Midnight Express open the show, but unlike last COTC's match, this one flowed much better and was certainly the far superior match. I never really cared for the Samoan Swat Team, but now that I have taken a liking to bruisers, I was impressed by the hard hits and chokes that they did. Eaton plays a great FIP during the Samoan Swat assault. I also love how the Midnight Express still use heel tactics such as blind tags in their matches even as faces. :lol at Paul Heyman putting a phone in one of the Samoan's ears. Good opener that hyped up the crowd.

-I don't understand how anyone can dislike NWA Muta. I can understand late 90s Muta and even some NJPW Muta, but the dude was king in the late 80s-early 90s in America. :lmao at him opening the match by spitting into the jobber's face. This was an extended squash, but next to Vader and Brock Lesnar, Muta is among the best in these extended squashes. Dude just wowed the entire NWA crowd with everything he did. Pretty cool how Jim Ross makes the comparison between Muta and Sting in this match.

-I don't understand how two charismatic wrestlers in JYD and Butch Reed just can't seem to have good matches at this point in their career. What was it about mainstream wrestling that made them both suck? This match was very boring and once again, nothing happens. I long to find their supposedly awesome Ghetto Street Fight. Michael Hayes is also commentating, so expect some hidden racism. Nice headbutts by JYD.

-Once again, two good wrestlers who really don't do much and just waste time for ten minutes, but this match was really more of a feud advancer more than anything.

-I'm starting to warm up to LOD. Sure they aren't great workers, but they really are as fun as people say they are. Match consists mainly of both teams trading maneuvers and Teddy Long interjecting himself in every possible situation. Not a bad match, but it never kicks into second gear and the finish was pretty stupid. Williams and Hawk had a really cool standoff here too. WILLIAMS!

-Ranger Ross vs. Iron Sheik went on for two minutes. The tag match that came after was ok. Eddie Gilbert had to carry three awful wrestlers to something interesting, and that he somewhat did in this five minute match. We didn't get the world class babyface performance from COTC IV from him, but I enjoyed what I saw from him and nobody else. Sick bladejob too.

-I always considered the hour-long Flair/Steamboat match as an all-time classic, but I always preferred Wrestlewar, Chi-Town Rumble, and even the Landover house show over it. In my one prior watch of the match, I did not feel that the match needed to go the distance. Can't say that anymore after my second watch. Don't know what else to say about this that hasn't been said.

For those of us who have not seen this match and are intimidated by its length, rest assured that the time goes by seamlessly. Flair is like that athlete that saves his best efforts for last. For the first two falls, he mostly wrestles a clean match with the exception of a couple fairly clean moves to the outside. In the third fall, he realizes that this was his chance to strike, and boy did he ever. Guy took apart Steamboat's leg, leading to cool spots like Flair falling on top of Steamboat after Ricky's knee buckles. The one hour allows them to have tons of nearfalls without going overkill. These guys obviously nail the little details down, such as Steamboat using the ropes to hold himself up in the third fall and Flair quickly tapping to the chickenwing in order to conserve energy. These two don't have huge movesets, but every transition is fresh. Also love how Flair finally uses the Figure Four in the last fall, thus making it a very convincing nearfall. What more needs to be said? I need to take a nap, but these guys wrestled the perfect match.

First three hour COTC and it was very good. It would have been better if they televised the two other title matches that night instead of having all that filler.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Despite going no time at all, Goldust/Rollins is really fun. 

Duh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> KINGCAL. Since you didn't address it, will you upload the 04 matches I requested? And to be sure, do you mind if I upload your HQ vids on youtube?  (THE PEOPLE DESERVE BENOIT/HHH IRONMAN IN HQ, DAMMIT!)
> 
> About to watch the Jake Roberts DVD now. The content of the documentary seems like it's tough to watch but probably easier now that we know he's been able to recover from his sad state.
> 
> Watched Batista's documentary a few days ago too. Excellent stuff that goes in-depth about his personal life as well as most of his career. (Y)


Aye I'll be uploading them, and feel free to do whatever that fook ya like with em lol.

Jake Roberts DVD :mark:. Documentary is awesome though extremely depressing, and the extras/matches are mostly really good. Bunch of promos which are WIN, and a bunch of fun matches with a couple of great ones (DIRTY WHITE BOY). Then some shite like his ECW stuff and that Sting match :lmao.

Now to download Main Event. GOLDUST VS ROLLINS :mark:.


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

So what are the best Shield ppv matches? TLC, Elimination Chamber and Battleground? Or am I missing something?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't really go wrong with any of them... except the one with Bryan and Orton teaming together.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goldust/Rollins was sure fun, but it didn't last enough to actually mean something. Not that it was dissapointing, just way too short. Ambrose/Ziggler from last week's ME tops it easily imo :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I thoroughly enjoyed Goldust/Rollins :mark:.

Goldust Vs Seth Rollins - WWE Main Event 23.10.2013

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2uM6XOe1NHnST4OCmJ


----------



## hanshanshans911 (Mar 17, 2009)

Callamus said:


> Can't really go wrong with any of them... except the one with Bryan and Orton teaming together.


That is the one from Payback right? Hm shame was thinking of picking up that show, blu ray extras do have Bryan-Rollins which sounds pretty great.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, tis from Payback. Was massively disappointing.



Spoiler: my random thoughts on the match



Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton Vs Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns

The more I see of Reigns the more I fucking love him. Calling it now, he becomes WHC before anyone else from The Shield. Assuming anyone else gets there. Well Seth will I'm sure. Big babyface win for him in a couple of years time. Unsure on Ambrose these days. His character work is tremendous but unless he's in the ring with the absolute right guy he just sucks. Regal was right. Rollins was right. Hell even Sandow was right. Bryan was right. Undertaker was right. Kane... I avoided. Kofi? HA! RVD? Urgh.

Lol, Reigns has Bryan in a sleeper hold and you can just hear some creepy voice in the background saying "We are the tag team champions, Bryan". And it's Rollins being awesome on the apron :lmao.

Oh god Orton tagged in. Those fucking robot clotheslines. Makes me wanna shoot myself. :lmao even the crowd die down once Orton comes into the ring.

Sweet Jebus that was dull. Orton as FIP just doesn't work lol. Crowd were dead, action was dull, Orton was uninspiring as the babyface. Then Bryan gets the tag and the crowd come UNGLUED and shit gets fun again. Finish is great.

Honestly, this might be the worst Shield tag match that didn't see them again nobodies. I'm beyond disappointed tbh . I was expecting greatness here.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Was watching some early 2000 divas matches, I forgot how good Molly Holly was


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm probably the only one who actually enjoyed the storytelling in Ambrose/Kane from PB. It was a very decent story. Such a shame they barely clicked at all in the ring. Same for the Smackdown match they had the same night as the much acclaimed Bryan/Ryback I. Then again, my brutal fandom of Kane forces me to not see where credit shouldn't be given. :side:

Folks, here's one of the pretty much locked ME's for Mania 30:


Spoiler: WM 30



DA UNDAHTAKAH VARSUS BORK LAZER :mark::mark::mark:



On one hand, this locks away the possibility of Deadman/Champ, but on the other, Deadman's going to win at WM at this stage regardless of who is opponent is, and if that's how it's going to be, might as well be against the real Best In The World (Bryan is only the full-time BITW) 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Quick note to EVERYONE btw. Discussion WM 30 plans is fine as long as you MAKE SURE TO USE SPOILER TAGS. Any of you spoil ANYTHING for me, especially this early on, and I will abuse my mod powers and ban you for a week lol. I don't wanna know ANYTHING. I don't wanna hear speculation or rumours. I don't wanna hear any "locks" for matches. I don't wanna know SHIT. Same goes for the RR too. DON'T RUIN IT FOR ME DAMMIT.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I used spoiler tags and the use of nicknames in honor of your sad Cal-science, Cal 8*D

For the sake of doing so, ratingz for the Sheamus (who lost his beard and looks kinda weird) vs Alberto matches:

MITB: **1/2
SSlam: **3/4
NOC: ***1/2
Raw 2013: ***1/4

The feud itself sucked and was boring, and they didn't have any chemistry, but they did have their bright spots together.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Callamus said:


> Quick note to EVERYONE btw. Discussion WM 30 plans is fine as long as you MAKE SURE TO USE SPOILER TAGS. Any of you spoil ANYTHING for me, especially this early on, and I will abuse my mod powers and ban you for a week lol. I don't wanna know ANYTHING. I don't wanna hear speculation or rumours. I don't wanna hear any "locks" for matches. I don't wanna know SHIT. Same goes for the RR too. DON'T RUIN IT FOR ME DAMMIT.


Can you use your mod powers and create us a new thread? The last one was about this long when you started anew. And it's doing that annoying thing at the bottom where it pretends there are 2 more pages than there actually are.

I second the spoiler tag thing, I don't want to know anything for any PPV until it is officially announced. It was SOOOO nice having the Punk/Lesnar match be a surprise at SummerSlam. I mean I know that's probably where they were gonna go after MitB when Heyman screwed Punk, but that moment when Heyman cut that promo and said "YOU ARE NOT BETTER THAN BROCK LESSSSSNARRRRR" actually made me stand up in front of the TV like a kid again. Don't you dare take that away from me:cuss:

Mr Callamus Maximus, now that you are done with EC-Dub 2009, are you gonna do another year of PPV's? I was thinking of rewatching all of the 2004 PPV's, but I'm not certain if that's the best year to do (I've already seen just about everything from 1997-2003 and 2009-2013)


----------

