# Finn Balor shouldn't be getting pushed like this



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Let's take a look at what WWE is doing right now with Braun Strowman and Nia Jax. They are giving them squash matches against jobbers. They're new comers, and we need a demonstration of what they can do. What kind of effect does this have on audience views of a particular wrestler? It builds up their character, shows us what they are capable of, and gives us something to look forward to when we see them get matched up against other wrestlers on the roster. Only problem is, they both suck. So it doesn't matter how much they show us, they're giving us nothing to look forward to in the near future.

The reason I bring that up is because we have another new comer to the main roster (although I guess Strowman isn't necessarily a new comer but you get my drift), Finn Balor, who has already earned himself a shot at Raw's world title at Summerslam.

Why?

I found myself asking this same question when Kevin Owens and AJ Styles (although given how close they were to Wrestlemania at that point, I gave that a pass). Why are they debuting these guys against the top talent in the company? Hell, Neville's second match on the main roster was against Seth Rollins when he was the WWE champion. I understand that these guys I named are more well known than a Nia Jax and Braun Strowman and thus don't need as much time to truly transition into the main roster and get over with the main roster crowd, but for the amount of people who knew about the prior work of these guys, there's an even larger amount who haven't seen that work or don't know about it at all. 

So why are these guys jumping right into higher tier feuds rather than working their way up through other wrestlers first? By putting Balor in a program with Rollins, who was Raw's top pick, right away out of the gate, you've ruined what could have been a highly anticipated match up at some point in the future between these two. When you debut a guy and you give him these long back and forth matches like they did with Balor, you aren't giving the fans much of a chance to truly pay attention to what Balor does in the ring. That's the purpose of squash matches for debuting stars. You show what they do in the ring, and when you see that matched up with another wrestler, you've got a reason to be excited. We've seen two Balor matches now, but we paid a lot more attention to the actual match itself than him in particular since not a lot of people expected him to win. What I mean is, we cared more about if he'd win or not rather than what he would showcase in the ring because that isn't what's important to us. _*As a result, we never truly get a chance to get to actually know Finn Balor.* _

Imagine how much more exciting the idea of this match would be if it was next year? When Finn is more established on the main roster and we have a much better idea of who he is and have more knowledge regarding what he's capable of. It's a dream match. We've seen great things from Balor and now we're about to see him at his best. But with this? They're just throwing him into the match with little to no build up and no time for us to pander "hey, I wonder what would happen if Balor and Rollins faced each other. How cool of a match would that be?". 

I guess the best example I can think of is this. Do you guys remember the Shield and Wyatt Family match at Elimination Chamber in 2014? Remember how incredibly exciting the idea of that match was? When I was on Sherdog, this was a match up the members talked about constantly, and when it was announced, there was a lot of excitement and anticipation. Now imagine if the Wyatts had just debuted and the match against the Shield was going to be their first one. Do you guys think the anticipation and hype would have been anything close to what it actually was? No, not a chance. Why? Because the Wyatts didn't do much at that point. And at this point, Balor hasn't done much.


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## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

I agree, they shouldn't have Balor gunning for let alone beating top tier guys like Reigns and Rollins on his debut. That sort of superman push helps no one, Balor himself included. They should have put him in a program with someone like Jericho first to ease his transition from NXT to the main roster. Jericho would have done a nice job in putting Balor over in a big way before he moved up the card.

It also doesn't helps that we only have two RAWs left before SummerSlam, not much time to properly build up a feud like this when they need to flesh out Balor's character and get the audience to know and get behind him. I know they wanted to debut him as a big deal and justify the early draft pick, but they could have slowed down things a bit while still doing so. I at least hope they do the right thing and have Rollins win at SummerSlam while still making Balor look great on the match.


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## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Completely agree, made a thread similar to this and the general sh*t all over it.


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## GeniusSmark (Dec 27, 2015)

More viewers will turn away, there will be a small few saying he's amazing.


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## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

You make alot of good points OP. and I agree with most of you post. Problem here is with the way they split the rosters and the fact that the WWE really wants the entire fanbase to buy into this "new era" stuff they could not have the title match at SS be Reigns/Rollins, so it had to be Rollins vs a new "face" b/c they are committed to keeping Rollins heel (for whatever reason) and they chose Balor. ANd it really didn't matter who they would have picked, whether it be Zayn, Cesaro, or Balor the push would be a superman push "outtanowhere".

My guess is the picked Balor b/c they see the most $$$$ in his demon merch potentially becoming a BIG seller.


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## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

I think I'm okay with him getting the shot early. They need a big match and what better way than to put Balor in, who is proven, with Rollins. You get the casuals and the die hards clamoring and buying tickets. His shelf life isn't getting any longer. Get what you can out of him now.

That said, having him sit on his title shot probably is bad. The next 2 weeks need to have him showcase a little bit of what he can do. I'd like to see him come in and just stomp some competition.


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## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

I like that they are giving us a new fresh feud with Rollins and Balor. Most likely due to Reign's suspension. But a lot of people have been waiting on this match since Seth came back from his injury. It's a dream match up. But I have to say, there are a handful of guys who have been on the roster longer who were more deserving of a title shot. Guys Seth has yet to have proper feuds with. But this is where WWE is going so hopefully the match with Rollins and Balor will pay off. I think it will.


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## anirioc (Jul 29, 2015)

*I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Everyday you could hear people shitting on Roman i mean we all know what´s the deal and now that WWE finally gives us something different in Balor people complain he´s shit, that he is a midget who doesnt deserve that "superman" push, for the longest time many fans complained about how Vince was obsessed with big muscular men and those men were very bad for business and now that we have a new face, a "small" but very good wrestler they are screaming "failure" "he doesnt look like a champion" i dont get it, granted Finn Balor is not ready yet but at least give him a chance.


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## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

You know its different people who are complaining about Balor than were complaining about Reigns, for the most part...Right?

This site has over 200,000 members :draper2


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## The5star_Kid (Mar 4, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

tbh the response to Balor on here has been largely favourable and I'm one of those who hate his mic work and lack of character but I've always said, if they can book it well, this could be a great feud. Then again on Raw that segment was horrible


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## AmWolves10 (Feb 6, 2011)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

He's been on the main roster for one week, how the fuck is finn balor the problem? The show was shit for a long time before he arrived, and actually its been the best two shows in a while since he's been on the roster.


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## Black Widow (Jul 3, 2014)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Some people are never happy.Balor is awesome.


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## 260825 (Sep 7, 2013)

*There's no rhyme or reason.

They paint Reigns as some kind of 'thorn in their side' like McMahon's Austin .. yet unlike that duo, they keep giving Roman chance after chance & it's unwarranted to the point you're breaking immersion & instead focusing on the backstage politics.

At least back in the day they used to try & make things fit organically, even then they jammed puzzle pieces together; when WWF/WCW stars crossed over & vice versa.

Now they're so lax about it. Who is Finn Balor, why is he here? how did he get here? .. he's off NXT yh .. but like why isn't he starting at the bottom. I though this was meant to be a sport & there was meant to be some resemblance of a competition & an hierarchy as such. The only reason he'd be here, & given this opportunity is because of the likes of a HHH (no where to be seen) & even then, the whole protege thing has been played out.

WWE's New ERA, is such that they've basically cut out the 'journey', cut out the intrigue & instead gone straight for the high points. It's like having desert over & over but you get sick of it after a while.*


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## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Give Super Finn a chance before you banish him to The Phantom Zone.


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## Hawkke (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

A majority of the problem is with WWE and their inability to string together any coherent narratives anymore. It doesn't matter who they put in the main event if we have ZERO reason to care why they're there. Roman's run in the main event was an insulting lie of reality versus fiction, sure the old "kayfabe" is dead, the new kayfabe, the crowd trying to understand why any given person is treated the way they are by the management, is far from it. Presenting Reigns as an anti-authority figure while he was clearly being handed the world by Vince was insulting. Balor never had any time to establish who the hell he even is before getting a main event of Summerslam, why in hell should I care about that? Being shoved in to that match before even cutting a promo on the main roster? Idiotic!

We need narrative, we need reasons, and they need to make sense and not have what is being presented to us on the screen insultingly contradictory to the backstage reality when that's the fictional line you're trying to ride with your "universe."


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## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

I'll wait a little while to decide my opinion on Balor fully. I think debuting him without his facepaint was a mistake, though.


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## JP7 (Oct 18, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Balor is awesome, yes his mic work does need improving i agree but that will come


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## Paul Bucy (Aug 2, 2016)

Personally I think its a insult to the guys who have been carrying the company for the last year with awesome midcard matches. Sami, KO, Cezzaro etc. To bring Balor in and push him without any context to his relationship in the organization is ridiculous and will end up burning him out faster than a chinee lightbulb, Can anyone say Shaemus? Cause they are gonna turn Finn into the next coulda been a star but now is a fucking has-been. They need to bring finn as the OP mentioned a slow boil, give him some rivalry and some drama before putting him in the big show, I get that hes popular on nxt and was popular in japan, but most of the people watching know him slightly from NXT unless they are truly big fans, he needs some back ground to be a true superstar and he isnt getting it. (btw imho his promos need ALOT of work too and the whole interpretive dance entrance gets old after the second or third viewing, but thats just my taste).

As for Seth Rollins, dont get me wrong I love Seth, hes a great wrestler and a fascinating heel despite allt he crybaby crap, but the push hes getting as well without working him into a good story other than old shield rivalries is crap as well, he needs a real foe and he needs it to develop outside of the PPV instead of the same rehashing every week of th same old shit, For instance that match with Sami was fantastic, why not use Sami as his rival instead of throwing Roman back in our faces.

Anyway my point is people like KO or Sami deserve the push they are giving to Seth and Finn just for all the awesome work they have been doing to carry raw and smack down for the last year. Its bullshit in my opinion and boring sloppy writing.


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## OwenSES (Jul 19, 2010)

He's just getting a boost on his debut. Same thing happened with Owens feuding against the number 1 guy Cena in his first feud but he didn't stay in the main event after. Balor isn't actually going to win, Rollins will be World Champion. If Balor actually wins then yeah I can understand the hate but I can't see it happening.


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## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

He's 35 years old. TIme to get the most out of him now if they plan on it.

In kayfabe he was NXT champ for a long time, a early draft important pick, and is being built up as a superstar from around the world that dominated.

In not kayfabe hes talented, extremely good looking...uhh yeah. Hes fucking hot. Reigns who?


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## Flair Flop (May 21, 2011)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

I am withholding any praise or criticism until I've given the guy a fair shot at filling the shoes that it appears they plan to put him in. There's a strong part of me that loves the idea of him just coming out of nowhere and shocking the world. Things like this are rarely done. Everything does not have to follow a proven formula. If he takes the belt and runs with it, then hell yeah, I will give him credit. If he flops then I will say that I feel he flopped. I will never criticize the idea itself, though. It's ballsy. Something very lacking from the writers for a long time


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## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

If WWE did a better job of explaining to the fans who Finn Balor is and introduced him properly, I don't think this issue would be as noticeable. 

WWE refuses to understand that while Raw gets 3.5 million viewers in the US, there are only only 1 million Network subscribers in the US (and not all of the subscribers watch NXT; I don't) this means that circa 3 million RAW viewers don't really know who he is. This is a problem that they need to deal with.


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## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

I'll wait until after Summerslam to make an kind of criticism.


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## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

I think that the root of the problem is that NXT management doesn't seem to be doing a good job developing talent in each of the core areas that they must excel at in order to succeed on the main roster; specifically promos. With countless writers, you'd think that they would understand that mic skills are like the second biggest part of a talent's job on the main roster...


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## si1927 (Mar 13, 2010)

I like Finn but I thinking pushing him as a face and the way they are is potentially a grave mistake. If they wanted to push him as a main eventer he should have come in as a heel as a leader of the club and added a member or two to make him as the leader a big deal. His NJPW rock n rolla heel gimmick with Bullet Club was cool as fuck. I can see them making the same mistakes that they did with Reigns. Just be forcing him to win continuously instead of making him interesting character wise and have him in compelling storylines. God if they were moving AJ away from the club Balor and Club could have turned on AJ and got mega heat up.

They just seem to have forgotten how to book characters and long term logical storylines. Which is mega frustrating considering the talent available to them.

:vince2


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## Trublez (Apr 10, 2013)

Yep, it's absolutely laughable that the little runt already beat Roman Reigns and is going to be maineventing Summerslam within a month of his main roster debut. If he was an exceptional talent I'd be a little less critical of it but outside of a cool entrance/theme song and "good" ring work, the guy does nothing for me. Dude should be working his way up from the midcard.


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## Raw-Is-Botchamania (Feb 13, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



A-C-P said:


> You know its different people who are complaining about Balor than were complaining about Reigns, for the most part...Right?
> 
> This site has over 200,000 members :draper2


THANK YOU!

I cannot believe there are people out there with so little brainpower that they can't differentiate at least a little bit.

Moreover, a big part of the people who label Balor a failure after mere 7 days are those who claimed there was nothing wrong with Boreman Pains.



ChicagoFit said:


> I think that the root of the problem is that NXT management doesn't seem to be doing a good job developing talent in each of the core areas that they must excel at in order to succeed on the main roster; specifically promos. With countless writers, you'd think that they would understand that mic skills are like the second biggest part of a talent's job on the main roster...


The man in charge of NXT cuts the worst promos of any Attitude Era remnant.


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## TheLooseCanon (Jun 18, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Shouldn't compare the 2.

Despite seeing hate for Balor (you see hate for Stone Cold too), I can safely bet he will not be universally booed out of buildings like Roman.

Company-wise, I can also see WWE turning Balor heel faster than I see them turning Roman.

Different pushes.


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## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

A-C-P said:


> ANd it really didn't matter who they would have picked, whether it be Zayn, Cesaro, or Balor the push would be a superman push "outtanowhere".


I don't necessarily agree with this in regards to Zayn. See, our memories are still very fresh regarding his feud with Owens, and that final battle he had with him at battleground (no pun intended). It was a big win and moment for Zayn's career. Now granted, picking Zayn is still a sudden choice and he still needs more time on the roster, but his feud with Owen's and the way it ended in my opinion is the best possible way for someone to transition from into the main event scene. And it helps make Owens look legitimate as well since this was a guy Zayn had been struggling for a long time to actually beat. Now Owens is being wasted in a unnecessary tag team program with Jericho against Enzo and Cass. I don't even know what the hell they've got planned for Zayn.


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## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

I agree, Balor shouldn't be put right into a world championship contendership in week one. I feel like that's insanely unfair to the likes of Cesaro and Kevin Owens.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

I'm sure just before the last Takeover event, I saw a bunch of people hating on Finn saying how boring he is. But I don't see that much hate towards him now, most people seem to be praising him :shrug

I don't see how you can say Finn is a problem when he's only been on the main roster for a week and hasn't had a chance yet.

I love both Roman and Finn though, lol. I always love the wrestlers people seem to have a problem with cos I love John Cena too


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## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

OwenSES said:


> He's just getting a boost on his debut. Same thing happened with Owens feuding against the number 1 guy Cena in his first feud but he didn't stay in the main event after. Balor isn't actually going to win, Rollins will be World Champion. If Balor actually wins then yeah I can understand the hate but I can't see it happening.


Well see that's the problem. Balor not winning just makes things even worse. No matter what happens for the next four or so months, the thing we'll remember most about him is that he "lost to Seth Rollins at Summerslam". It was the same problem Owens had until his feud with Zayn picked back up (mostly because he looked very good in that feud). Now with the split up rosters, it's going to be harder for Balor to overcome that. And if you have Balor win the match at Summerslam, then you're just forcing things and making the number one guy of your brand be someone the fans don't know much about. It's a lose-lose situation.


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## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

Finn Balor being in the Summerslam main event is not only not fair on guys like Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn and Cesaro, but it is not fair on Finn Balor himself. I don't feel hes ready for this. He needed time to acclimate to the main roster.

He might end up suffering from similar booking Reigns got, which damn near destroyed his entire career.


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## Jingoro (Jun 6, 2012)

if balor had owens mic skills, i think the complaints would be much fewer. he's got that bland generic way of speaking. no verbal charisma. sasha has the same problem.

people shat on aj styles for his mic skills, but he's looking better already just by adding balor to the roster. he's not great on the mic, but can at least talk without putting me to sleep.


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## Godway (May 21, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Roman was shoved down the fans throat while being booed for two fucking years. The fans never wanted him, never asked for him, and his own performance was dreadful. Balor has been on the roster for two weeks. Why don't you calm down with saying he's a "problem".


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## Raw-Is-Botchamania (Feb 13, 2015)

Comparing Balor to Nia Jax and Strowman ... fpalm

Strowman is a newcomer on any roster, he shouldn't be compared to an over as fuck, freaking NXT World Champion!
Nia Jax was a Newcomer even on NXT, and her matches suck! Not comparable either.

Everybody knows who Balor is. People wouldn't buy it for a second if he came in midcard.
All people know about the other two is that they suck, and need to earn respect.

And I always have to laugh at people suggesting turning NXT Stars heel. They inevitably get cheered upon debut on this stale ass roster.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



JP7 said:


> Balor is awesome, yes his mic work does need improving i agree but that will come


This statement is the problem with fans. If it's your favourite or a guy you like it doesn't matter that as far as main roster goes they don't have any build or time on the roster and it's good news that he's going for a world title. It's okay that he has lackluster mic skills because he will get "better". Yet when it was someone who they don't like everything that person does is wrong or awful and that they are overrated or out of their league. The hypocrisy is staggering. I've commented on threads where I have admitted that I am no Finn Balor fan nor am I a Roman Reigns fan, but I'm not going to say that one is better than the other. I will however say that at least Reigns didn't just show up night one on the Main Roster and get thrust into the Main event scene just because Triple H likes him.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

It's WWE. They've screwed up alot of guys in recent years, so I'm not surprised. I think part of it has to do with the 'New Era' thing they're running with, but it's still alot for him in a very short amount of time. WWE screwing up another and pushing someone too fast is almost par for the course at this point to the point where I'm just like, "Yeah, this is stupid, but they've done it so much recently to a number of different people that I'm just like whatever." Only thing his sudden push has going for it is that it is fresh and a feud we've never seen before since they have never wrestled one another. But I agree with the overall point, too much too soon...AGAIN.


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## SilvasBrokenLeg (May 31, 2016)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

They're both fucking terrible.


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## JDP2016 (Apr 4, 2016)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



A-C-P said:


> You know its different people who are complaining about Balor than were complaining about Reigns, for the most part...Right?
> 
> This site has over 200,000 members :draper2


Oh I hate when people do this. Thank you. :bosstrips


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## Soul Man Danny B (Dec 30, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

I've said this before and i'll say it again... Balor is missing something. He's less than the sum of his parts.

I wish him luck, though. WWE needs new stars badly.


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## From Death Valley (Jan 27, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

The problem is the idiots who are running the company. They book two! Natural heels as babyfaces because the McMahon family book them as walking advertisement. Look at Cena and Roman gear for example. Almost everything they wear has their logo and catchphrase in it. They do this so that the kids can go nag their parents so they can purchase whatever merchandise these sport entertainers wear.

The WWE stop catering to its adult demo a while ago. They evolve each time and gear their product towards children. 

The iwc will never be happy unless their top guy is in the top and even then they'll never be satisfied because the IWC is everyone who discusses wrestling in the internet even those annoying marks from the middle East and India are part of it. Meaning nobody will be happy because there's more than two sides in it.

It's time people move on and accept the wwe for what it is. Because as long the company remains under the control of the McMahon family things will remain the same.

There's two choices you can take.

A) Stop watching

B) accept it for what it is and continue to support them.

Easy.


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## OwenSES (Jul 19, 2010)

AlternateDemise said:


> Well see that's the problem. Balor not winning just makes things even worse. No matter what happens for the next four or so months, the thing we'll remember most about him is that he "lost to Seth Rollins at Summerslam". It was the same problem Owens had until his feud with Zayn picked back up (mostly because he looked very good in that feud). Now with the split up rosters, it's going to be harder for Balor to overcome that. And if you have Balor win the match at Summerslam, then you're just forcing things and making the number one guy of your brand be someone the fans don't know much about. It's a lose-lose situation.


It doesn't have to be that way. The story for Balor is the journey to become World Champion. If he does it in his first ppv match with the crowd not really getting into him then like you said it's bad but I think if handled right he can lose and then start the redemption journey to the day he eventually wins the belt.

Losing to Rollins doesn't mean you're a loser and have no business at the top level, he's beaten everyone, The fact that Balor was able to hang with him at Summerslam will give him a push in the fans eyes.


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## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



EL SHIV said:


> Give *Super Finn* a chance before you banish him to The Phantom Zone.


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## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

*WWE are sabotaging Finn Balor big time*

They clearly have not learnt from their mistakes with Roman Reigns. 

You can't have a guy a lot of the audience don't know just come in and dominate. There is no natural progression here. He is being put in a position that he isn't ready for and will just lead to people ending up resenting him. Its unfair on him and unfair on the fans. 

He needs to get over organically on the main roster, because despite what some people here want to convince themselves, there are a lot of people who watch WWE who have never seen a single episode of NXT in their lives.

Now this poor guy is being ripped apart by people judging everything from his size to his mic skills and his in ring skill. I cannot see this ending well for him at all. 

I mean, his promo last night was not great and it was a typical sign of a guy who has potential but needs more mic time to adjust and improve. Except WWE haven't given him any time at all since he is already headlining Summerslam. This whole thing is a mess.


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## McNugget (Aug 27, 2007)

It could be, y'know, that they need to legitimize a new star and are taking a risk with Balor. But it's not really much of a risk, since he's been comfortably at the top of NXT for a year now. I don't really agree with the argument that he shouldn't be where he is. There isn't anyone else on RAW worth putting in that spot on the Summerslam card in his place. We don't need Rollins vs Reigns again, and nobody else has had good booking behind them lately.

Balor is the only guy on the roster currently unmarred by the shit booking of the last few years. He's in a unique spot to immediately be a big deal, which means he gets sent to the top. Now if he goes on to win the title and be undefeated for a year, we'll have a problem. But right now I don't really see anything to complain about. He's not a Sheamus or a Del Rio, who were both largely untested in WWE prior to their big pushes; Finn has already proven to the NXT viewers that he's not only capable, but excellent (his detractors largely have problems with his booking and his character, not the wrestler). He's proven the same to HHH and Vince already.


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## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

Jingoro said:


> if balor had owens mic skills, i think the complaints would be much fewer. he's got that bland generic way of speaking. no verbal charisma. sasha has the same problem.
> 
> people shat on aj styles for his mic skills, but he's looking better already just by adding balor to the roster. he's not great on the mic, but can at least talk without putting me to sleep.


Completely agree. Teaching and refining the Mic and promo skills of talent has been the biggest failure of NXT management and WWE management (for calling people up to the main roster who have little or no skills in this area which happens to be the second most important part of a talent's job). Between Sasha, Roman and Balor (among others), NTX has been an epic failure in fulfilling it's mission/purpose.


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## Eaglesfan 21 (Jun 27, 2016)

1. Balor definetly should be getting pushed like this.
2. Balor should win the title a SS.
3 A double turn could happen,with the club helping Balor go over,turning Balor heel and Seth face.


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## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Everybody knows who Balor is.


Not an opinion but actual fact: 
Raw Audience Size: 3.5 million (US) 

Network Subs: 1 million (US) 

# of Network Subs Who Watch NXT: Less than 1 million in the US (myself included) but NXT #'s are a closely guarded secret (prob bc it's regular audience is around 400-500K).

But let's live in fantasyland and say all network subscribers in the US watch NXT AND watch RAW. 

THEREFORE: more than 2.5 million out of the 3.5 million viewers of RAW are not familiar with Finn Balor. (Some might have heard his name or viewed a clip of him, but their initial impressions of him has been the last two episodes of RAW). 

WWE did a shit job of introducing him and giving fans a sense of who he is. Seth Rollins gave a better bio of Balor last night than the announcers ever have. That's a problem.


----------



## Uptown King (Jul 11, 2016)

I see no problem with Balor rising to the top this early into his career on the main roster in the WWE. He is a international star who has won multiple titles and world titles. So in a way he is ready, he was a world champion on NXT. He has proving in a way he is ready to be a top guy in the E, so for that he should be facing Rollins. The fans are digging him really well too so that plays into him being ready for this spot light too. Fans should not complain as this will be a good or great fight.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

Its kind of funny that people think everyone should know Finn Balor, while saying that what people do outside of the WWE is irrelevant. Certain companies outside of WWE used to get a lot more viewers than NXT did, so why is it irrelevant what someone did in TNA for example but what they did in NXT matters?


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

God this forum is so fucking ignorant. 

The fans know him. That's why they react to him. He's over. The fans want him pushed. Stop acting like NXT is some little unknown indy. It's all over their Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. There's a reason why Bayley and American Alpha got big pops. Because the fans ALREADY know them. 

God fucking damn, you people dense as fuck. It would be a waste of time to waste him on Jericho or whatever midcard geek you're thinking of. 

Not even a fan of him but jesus christ.


----------



## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

The Son Shala said:


> God this forum is so fucking ignorant.
> 
> The fans know him. That's why they react to him. He's over. The fans want him pushed. Stop acting like NXT is some little unknown indy. It's all over their Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. There's a reason why Bayley and American Alpha got big pops. Because the fans ALREADY know them.
> 
> ...


It's good that when factual documentation is used to completely debunk your entire argument, you respond with empty, meaningless rhetoric...


----------



## Stephleref (Jun 28, 2011)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Gotta love this mentality that as soon as the WWE changes something you don't like you have to like what they do instead no matter what it is,without thinking about it.


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

The Son Shala said:


> God this forum is so fucking ignorant.
> 
> The fans know him. That's why they react to him. He's over. The fans want him pushed. Stop acting like NXT is some little unknown indy. It's all over their Twitter, Facebook and YouTube. There's a reason why Bayley and American Alpha got big pops. Because the fans ALREADY know them.
> 
> ...


You can disrespect them all you want but Jericho, Zayn and Owens are way ahead of Balor in every way. Getting a debut pop means nothing, even the most moderately known people get it. 

Even if we ignore the fact that the vast majority of the audience doesn't watch NXT, Zayn was way more popular than Balor ever was in NXT, yet he is a midcard geek and Balor deserves to main event Summerslam? What planet are you living on?

Balor got a very weak reaction this week on RAW. You are kidding yourself if you think most people know him and are already behind him.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

ChicagoFit said:


> It's good that when *factual documentation* is used to completely debunk your entire argument, you respond with empty, meaningless rhetoric...


Excuse me? 

He's over. He's over in NXT. He's over on Raw. This is fact. Your bullshit numbers about Network subscribers mean shit because as I said, NXT is all over their social media and not just the Network.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Those network numbers include international subs.


----------



## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

Straw Hat said:


> Those network numbers include international subs.


The one million subs is just domestic. 
The total sub is 1.3 or 1.5 million (US + world)



The Son Shala said:


> Excuse me?
> 
> He's over. He's over in NXT. He's over on Raw. This is fact. Your bullshit numbers about Network subscribers mean shit because as I said, NXT is all over their social media and not just the Network.


No, my numbers (from the WWE) are so clear that a six year old can comprehend it. Since I'm not a nursery school teacher, i unfortunately cannot explain it in a way that might help you understand it.


----------



## Q-MAN (May 15, 2015)

*Will people stop shitting over Balor?*

The dude has been on the main roster for two weeks and people are flipping their lids over him being in the title match at Summerslam and how he doesn't deserve to be in the spot or god knows all the other stupid stuff. Look I wish other guys had their shots first, but don't blame Finn he's not booking the show...especially Roman Reigns' fans who used that exact reason to excuse his push. Finn is not going to win at Summerslam , mostly like in controversial fashion to keep his stock up, and he will probably be somewhere in the Mid-card come September. The only reason they have him go in hot is they are trying to have a new star for the Raw roster and open up NXT to new folks. Chill out it's exhausting already.


----------



## TheGeneticFreak (Feb 27, 2016)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*

People have been shitting on him before his main roster call up, it's nothing new.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

Roman was the failed prototype, the imperfect Bizarro duplicate, if you will. Finn is the true Kryptonian.


----------



## Erik Spears (Aug 2, 2016)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*

i agree completley


----------



## tmd02 (Jul 29, 2016)

Dolorian said:


> I agree, they shouldn't have Balor gunning for let alone beating top tier guys like Reigns and Rollins on his debut. That sort of superman push helps no one, Balor himself included. They should have put him in a program with *someone like Jericho first to ease his transition from NXT to the main roster.* Jericho would have done a nice job in putting Balor over in a big way before he moved up the card.
> 
> It also doesn't helps that we only have two RAWs left before SummerSlam, not much time to properly build up a feud like this when they need to flesh out Balor's character and get the audience to know and get behind him. I know they wanted to debut him as a big deal and justify the early draft pick, but they could have slowed down things a bit while still doing so. I at least hope they do the right thing and have Rollins win at SummerSlam while still making Balor look great on the match.


How well did that work for AJ Styles?

I swear internet fans make more turns than Big Show, you go crazy for one guy then when he gets that dream elevation you all jump on them, I'm looking forward to see the forums if Shinsuke ever comes to the main roster, or Samoa Joe.

I'm going to have a look through the forums to see what the response was to KO beating John Cena in his first match, I imagine the response will be similar. And if you're going to spin it on me and say Finn is shit on the mic, all of his fans would of known he was utter crap on the mic when he was in NXT, but it didn't suit anyone to say so when he was down in indie talent land.

On a side note, you'd think they would teach a lot of the upcoming stars about promos in a developmental program like NXT right?


----------



## Cipher (Mar 27, 2016)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*

Nah. I'm shitting on him because we have another guy being pushed who has no mic skills or charisma whatsoever. It's never going to get better, it's just going to keep getting worse at this point.

Who the hell is teaching these people promos down at the PC? They need to be fired.


----------



## MarkovKane (May 21, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

You know what, I have zero problems with Balor. I was just happy that Cesaro for once in his career he wasn't the guy eating the pins so everyone can maintain their egos and lame careers.

In fact, I never gave Roman a hard time until he was put over Ambrose. It wasn't that he was champion, but I could not get over how Ambrose deserved the Survivor Series win, the McMahon storyline, the Royal Rumble win, and the Wrestlmania main event. Instead, not even 6 months ago, WWE was peddling HHH, Stephanie and Roman as centerpiece of stories. 

The only thing to really complain about RAW, is Sasha being a champion, but since most people ignore how turrible she has been, they don't care. 


I like how WWE tries to make big changes:

Pre-WM32-No man shall touch a woman
Post-Split-We will do a mix gender match, BUT the men and women won't fight

^-This is what WWE does with everything, they are willing to change and do what is right, but won't go fully through with it. I'm surprised they did a full split, and didn't allow floating champions. Vince and Dunn must be dying to show RAW recaps on Smackdown.


----------



## BASEDBAYLEY (Jan 30, 2016)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*

As wrestling fans we will always complain about someone. Especially on the internet. Everything eventually turns into a negative thing for some reason.

I love finn btw I think he looks like a badass and he's not even that bad on the mic as people are saying.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

ChicagoFit said:


> No, my numbers (from the WWE) are so clear that a six year old can comprehend it. Since I'm not a nursery school teacher, i unfortunately cannot explain it in a way that might help you understand it.


No, you can't explain it because it's bullshit and you know.

You don't need the Network to know about NXT. Balor has been marketed for 2 years all over WWE Media. He's been in the press conferences, video games, sells a shitload of merch, etc. 

"H-he's unknown to non-NXT fans " lol, no.


----------



## Q-MAN (May 15, 2015)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*



BASEDBAYLEY said:


> As wrestling fans we will always complain about someone. Especially on the internet. Everything eventually turns into a negative thing for some reason.
> 
> I love finn btw I think he looks like a badass and he's not even that bad on the mic as people are saying.


I know it just get exhausting, WWE does something new and people complain. I myself see the good and bad that can come from this and am waiting till Summerslam to see how it goes. For know it is clear Finn is just their to spice things up and deliver a good match.


----------



## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*

Why should they stop? They are entitled to not like a particular wrestler. As long as their criticisms are logically consistent there should be no issues.


----------



## Q-MAN (May 15, 2015)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*



God Movement said:


> Why should they stop? They are entitled to not like a particular wrestler. As long as their criticisms are logically consistent there should be no issues.


Because it's been two fucking weeks and he is not even going to win. He is here to put on a good match and establish himself on Raw. That's it! If he was going to win yeah you could tear it apart all you want, but shit people are acting like he is fricking Judas or something.


----------



## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

The Son Shala said:


> No, you can't explain it because it's bullshit and you know.
> 
> You don't need the Network to know about NXT. Balor has been marketed for 2 years all over WWE Media. He's been in the press conferences, video games, sells a shitload of merch, etc.
> 
> "H-he's unknown to non-NXT fans " lol, no.


You've literally said nothing. 
Thanks for amusing me.


----------



## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm on the fence with Balor, but I don't think he should have been debuted without his facepaint.

And my mom keeps pointing out his forehead. He can't help it, but man if it isn't distracting now that it's been pointed out. :mj2


----------



## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*



Q-MAN said:


> Because it's been two fucking weeks and he is not even going to win. He is here to put on a good match and establish himself on Raw. That's it! If he was going to win yeah you could tear it apart all you want, but shit people are acting like he is fricking Judas or something.


So? Some people have followed him in NXT. They don't like him. Some people have just seen him for the first time on RAW, they don't like him. First impressions are a bitch and he hasn't made a good one on some people. That's life. Stop worrying about what other people think about wrestlers you like, it's a waste of your energy. If they can justify why they don't like him COHERENTLY then that should be good enough.

I've met some people who don't like fucking Stone Cold Steve Austin, that's life. Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

tmd02 said:


> How well did that work for AJ Styles?


Just because AJ Styles is not champion it doesn't means that things haven't gone well for him. He is now the top heel of SmackDown Live and before that got back to back PPV title shots against Reigns and is now in a feud with Cena. Styles has gotten to a very good position on the company since debuting and has made a connection with the crowd.




> I swear internet fans make more turns than Big Show, you go crazy for one guy then when he gets that dream elevation you all jump on them


Didn't know that "internet fans" were some hive mind that shared the same opinion on everything.


----------



## Q-MAN (May 15, 2015)

*Re: Will people stop shitting over Balor?*



God Movement said:


> So? Some people have followed him in NXT. They don't like him. Some people have just seen him for the first time on RAW, they don't like him. First impressions are a bitch and he hasn't made a good one on some people. That's life. Stop worrying about what other people think about wrestlers you like, it's a waste of your energy.


Key word first impressions and yet many of hypocrites probably said to wait a see for whole bunch of other stars. I am saying you can have a opinion but there is a limit because it goes into over the top.


----------



## tmd02 (Jul 29, 2016)

Dolorian said:


> Just because AJ Styles is not champion it doesn't means that things haven't gone well for him. He is now the top heel of SmackDown Live and before that got back to back PPV title shots against Reigns and is now in a feud with Cena. Styles has gotten to a very good position on the company since debuting and has made a connection with the crowd.


That wasn't Ambrose's first feud in the company, and the feud was boring a long with AJ's, none of their fault mind I add.



Dolorian said:


> Didn't know that "internet fans" were some hive mind that shared the same opinion on everything.


It's more like sheep in a herd or a domino effect imo. Herd Mentality baybeeeeeeeeee!


----------



## Block3105 (Mar 19, 2016)

I like Finn, he needs to improve on the mic, and expand on what the demon actually is, but I enjoy his ring work

Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Tapatalk


----------



## Q-MAN (May 15, 2015)

Block3105 said:


> I like Finn, he needs to improve on the mic, and expand on what the demon actually is, but I enjoy his ring work
> 
> Sent from my HTC Desire 626 using Tapatalk


Agreed I really want the demon to the be a more developed element of his persona, the dark and dangerous side of Balor you do not want unleashed. Maybe tweener Finn would be a good idea.


----------



## Stone Cold 4life (Dec 17, 2008)

Past the demon part of his character I really don't get his appeal. And even that gets old after a while. Mic work is meh. Ring work is meh and lacks charisma.


----------



## Q-MAN (May 15, 2015)

Stone Cold 4life said:


> Past the demon part of his character I really don't get his appeal. And even that gets old after a while. Mic work is meh. Ring work is meh and lacks charisma.


If he gets to be more cocky and violent and not just bland face # who gives a shit then that would change quick.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

Finn grew on me in NXT... I mean, I liked him from the first time I saw him when he had the Ladder Match last year... but the feud with Joe developed his character much better than anyone wants to admit. We saw him get pushed to his brink, saw a full range of character come out over time. Everything from Cockiness when he went for the Bloody Sunday after hitting Crews with the Coup de Gras.... to him and Joe nearly committing murder against one another at Dallas... to the epic Cage finale.

And when the dust settled from that... the final match against Nakamura proved that he's as good as advertised. 

Complain all you want, that arc with Joe was brilliant and put Joe over as a goddamn monster. 

I have no qualms with putting Balor in a match with Rollins because I know that they're gonna go blow the roof off the place


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

OwenSES said:


> It doesn't have to be that way. The story for Balor is the journey to become World Champion. If he does it in his first ppv match with the crowd not really getting into him then like you said it's bad but I think if handled right he can lose and then start the redemption journey to the day he eventually wins the belt.
> 
> Losing to Rollins doesn't mean you're a loser and have no business at the top level, he's beaten everyone, The fact that Balor was able to hang with him at Summerslam will give him a push in the fans eyes.


You're missing the point. There is no "redemption" story to be done here. Most of the audience doesn't know who he is. He needs some kind of following and has to have done SOMETHING.



From Death Valley said:


> The problem is the idiots who are running the company. They book two! Natural heels as babyfaces because the McMahon family book them as walking advertisement. Look at Cena and Roman gear for example. Almost everything they wear has their logo and catchphrase in it. They do this so that the kids can go nag their parents so they can purchase whatever merchandise these sport entertainers wear.
> 
> The WWE stop catering to its adult demo a while ago. They evolve each time and gear their product towards children.
> 
> ...


Did you even read my post?


----------



## From Death Valley (Jan 27, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> You're missing the point. There is no "redemption" story to be done here. Most of the audience doesn't know who he is. He needs some kind of following and has to have done SOMETHING.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you even read my post?


My bad I posted on the wrong thread :lol


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



anirioc said:


> Everyday you could hear people shitting on Roman i mean we all know what´s the deal and now that WWE finally gives us something different in Balor people complain he´s shit, that he is a midget who doesnt deserve that "superman" push, for the longest time many fans complained about how Vince was obsessed with big muscular men and those men were very bad for business and now that we have a new face, a "small" but very good wrestler they are screaming "failure" "he doesnt look like a champion" i dont get it, granted Finn Balor is not ready yet but at least give him a chance.


None of the reasons you listed as complaints about Balor's push weren't something I said in this thread. Actually READ my post rather than categorize me with a bunch of other people who apparently complain about.



Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> Comparing Balor to Nia Jax and Strowman ... fpalm
> 
> Strowman is a newcomer on any roster, he shouldn't be compared to an over as fuck, freaking NXT World Champion!
> Nia Jax was a Newcomer even on NXT, and her matches suck! Not comparable either.
> ...


No they don't. And you're only bullshitting yourself if you think otherwise. It's a well known fact that there's a still a pretty big percentage of the WWE audience that doesn't watch NXT. 

Please re-read my post.



Sweggeh said:


> Its kind of funny that people think everyone should know Finn Balor, while saying that what people do outside of the WWE is irrelevant. Certain companies outside of WWE used to get a lot more viewers than NXT did, so why is it irrelevant what someone did in TNA for example but what they did in NXT matters?


I don't know, considering how I'm not one of the people who say things like that.


----------



## Bret Hart (Mar 16, 2013)

I'd rather have had Styles/Owens/Joe get the Finn push.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Razgriz said:


> Finn grew on me in NXT... I mean, I liked him from the first time I saw him when he had the Ladder Match last year... but the feud with Joe developed his character much better than anyone wants to admit. We saw him get pushed to his brink, saw a full range of character come out over time. Everything from Cockiness when he went for the Bloody Sunday after hitting Crews with the Coup de Gras.... to him and Joe nearly committing murder against one another at Dallas... to the epic Cage finale.
> 
> And when the dust settled from that... the final match against Nakamura proved that he's as good as advertised.
> 
> Complain all you want, that arc with Joe was brilliant and put Joe over as a goddamn monster.


What does any of this have to do with what I'm talking about? Hell I could ask the same thing in regards to quite a few of the posts made in this thread. My complaint regarding Finn's push has absolutely nothing to do with him from a skillset perspective (hell it's not even about him in particular). And to the people complaining about "flip flopping", this whole "put NXT call ups in feuds with top guys right off the bat" trend WWE is going in is a complaint I've been making for the past year now. It's something I was never in favor of. And now they're doing it at a time when they really shouldn't be doing it because they simply cannot afford to on a roster with less big names in it.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

AlternateDemise said:


> What does any of this have to do with what I'm talking about? Hell I could ask the same thing in regards to quite a few of the posts made in this thread. My complaint regarding Finn's push has absolutely nothing to do with him from a skillset perspective (hell it's not even about him in particular). And to the people complaining about "flip flopping", this whole "put NXT call ups in feuds with top guys right off the bat" trend WWE is going in is a complaint I've been making for the past year now. It's something I was never in favor of. And now they're doing it at a time when they really shouldn't be doing it because they simply cannot afford to on a roster with less big names in it.


Thing is, he's not some dumb unproven rookie. You book him lower on the card, you'll get people complaining that he's not getting correct booking. He isn't some NXT project like Corbin. Booking squash matches does little to nothing for him.

A couple of showcase matches next week or the week after should give people a cursory knowledge. 

Balor is probably a top 10 wrestler in the business, so booking him like a top 10 act is the way you go.


----------



## Miss Sally (Jul 14, 2014)

I say we just fire Balor and go back to pushing Reigns, problem solved!


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Razgriz said:


> Thing is, he's not some dumb unproven rookie. You book him lower on the card, you'll get people complaining that he's not getting correct booking. He isn't some NXT project like Corbin. Booking squash matches does little to nothing for him.


How is getting him introduced to an unfamiliar crowd and giving them a reason to be excited doing nothing for him?


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

I agree.

While I'm still stoked for the match, this whole feud could have been so much more had WWE focused on building Balor up on the main roster, and allowing himself the chance to really find his groove before pulling the trigger on this rivalry.


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*

based on that logic...vince McMahon must have really not like stone cold in real life that's why he always try to screw him over on raw...wtf who cares whose chosen or not stop reading dirt sheets and just watch the product to enjoy the storyline they are trying to play for our entertainment...its not that serious


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



Hawkke said:


> A majority of the problem is with WWE and their inability to string together any coherent narratives anymore. It doesn't matter who they put in the main event if we have ZERO reason to care why they're there. Roman's run in the main event was an insulting lie of reality versus fiction, sure the old "kayfabe" is dead, the new kayfabe, the crowd trying to understand why any given person is treated the way they are by the management, is far from it. Presenting Reigns as an anti-authority figure while he was clearly being handed the world by Vince was insulting. Balor never had any time to establish who the hell he even is before getting a main event of Summerslam, why in hell should I care about that? Being shoved in to that match before even cutting a promo on the main roster? Idiotic!
> 
> We need narrative, we need reasons, and they need to make sense and not have what is being presented to us on the screen insultingly contradictory to the backstage reality when that's the fictional line you're trying to ride with your "universe."


 based on that logic...vince McMahon must have really not like stone cold in real life that's why he always try to screw him over on raw.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

AlternateDemise said:


> How is getting him introduced to an unfamiliar crowd and giving them a reason to be excited doing nothing for him?


People aren't stupid. People have phones and the internet at their fingertips. 

You make an impact like... booking him for SummerSlam by beating Reigns... And that gives them reason enough to go searching for him online. 

This isn't the 80s or 90s, you don't have to introduce people so internally anymore. And with the business model WWE has set up for themselves, they have the word of mouth hardcore fans reaching out to 2 or 3 more people exclaiming how awesome Balor is.


----------



## Hawkke (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



ecclesiastes10 said:


> based on that logic...vince McMahon must have really not like stone cold in real life that's why he always try to screw him over on raw.


No. By my logic the Austin vs. Mr. McMahon saga was the proper execution of the anti-authority figure plot line. The perception of the *real* back stage politics didn't play into it nearly as much as it does with Reigns, if at all. Your example is from the days before they started losing the ability to craft a plot line, and the days before nearly everyone was on the internet and clued into the real extent of the politics of the day.

In the Austin Vs Mr. McMachon saga they crafted just enough story, just enough excitement to keep the attention away from the obvious. That's the point of a compelling story when dealing with a fictional presentation of "reality." You have to keep the eyes on the shiny prize in the left hand and away from the pen writing the story in the right hand.

To put it simply, with Mr McMahon vs. Austin they kept the eyes on the shiny prize, with The Authority "Vs" Reigns they practically shove the pen in your face. I put the "Vs" in quotations as it never really felt like The Authority was against him. Just the wink wink nudge nudge practical joke title screw over from time to time quickly followed by the next title shot to get the title immediately back. Is was all so poorly written it approaches condescending.


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

was it really...the authority also hated Daniel bryan but they actually cave to his demand for wrestlmania. tell me if u really hated a guy thought he was a b plus player not worthy to lace your boots would u actually give in to his demands to face you and if he wins be in the main event...if tiple h was really being true to character of being an evil boss he would've told Daniel to take a hike sit him out at wrestlmania cuz he can... but they set it up that he lost his cool and gave him everything he wanted. why would an evil bully do that. plus about the internet that's not wwe fault. no body forces anyone to read dirt sheets and imo its like reading a spoiler to a movie...why do it to yourself.plus I actually like the story but the people booing him ruin the presentation it literally made no sense for people to boo him from a storyline perspective, which makes me believe the ones who boo will never like roman and that they may put wwe in a bad position with their investment with him. unless they make him an unbeatable bad guy...that would be cool


----------



## Hiplop (May 12, 2006)

Definitely agree. Newcomers getting to TOUCH main eventers should be rare and feel special (See:Carlito/Cena debuts. Those mattered, felt amazing and impactful.) If it happens too often, ruins the point


----------



## HensonNXT (Jul 23, 2016)

No, RAW needs legit stars fast, and Balor is a suitable candidate due to his time in NXT


----------



## ellthom (May 2, 2011)

They are giving him the Sheamus and Del Rio push, the straihgt out of the gate main event push! And that never bodes well. I would have prefered he started for the Ic or US titles and worked his way up... 

Why don't people start at the bottom anymore? These days its done backwards, you start at the top and work your way down. Fandango beat Jericho at Wrestlemania now at the bottom,, Kevin Owens beats Cena now in the midcard, Miz headlines wrestlemania now in the midcard, Curtis Axel beat Triple H and had Heyman managing him now jobber. Damian Sandow wins Money in the Bank now gone, 

The backward land of WWE


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

That's how you make a star. You debut him with instant impact. Brock Lesnar and AJ Styles both won the IWGP Heavyweight Championship in THEIR FIRST MATCH in NJPW, and were the biggest stars over there instantly. If you want to make a guy a star, you don't debut him against some jobber and make him feel like just another guy. You make a real impact with him.


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

ecclesiastes10 said:


> was it really...the authority also hated Daniel bryan but they actually cave to his demand for wrestlmania. tell me if u really hated a guy thought he was a b plus player not worthy to lace your boots would u actually give in to his demands to face you and if he wins be in the main event...if tiple h was really being true to character of being an evil boss he would've told Daniel to take a hike sit him out at wrestlmania cuz he can... but they set it up that he lost his cool and gave him everything he wanted. why would an evil bully do that. plus about the internet that's not wwe fault. no body forces anyone to read dirt sheets and imo its like reading a spoiler to a movie...why do it to yourself.plus I actually like the story but the people booing him ruin the presentation it literally made no sense for people to boo him from a storyline perspective, which makes me believe the ones who boo will never like roman and that they may put wwe in a bad position with their investment with him. unless they make him an unbeatable bad guy...that would be cool


You really can't see the differences between Stone Cold vs Mr McMahon, Daniel Bryan vs The Authority, and Reigns vs The Authority "stories" and you just think the Reigns vs The Authority didn't work just b/c people read "dirt sheets"?

It really had nothing to do with the stories of the first 2 being written better and the performers involved really being able to pull off the story in a way that allowed the audience to get drawn? Please. There are so many reasons that Daniel Bryan vs The Authority worked and Reigns vs The Authority didn't that you get to before people read dirt sheets and just decided they hate Reigns just because...


----------



## CoolestDude (Dec 11, 2014)

*Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

I dont get it. Someone tell me whats so great about this guy.

His entrance is cringe worthy, the way he fiddles with his jacket is like the most un-cool thing I have seen in wrestling in a while. 

He is tiny. Like really really small. He is just your average dude. 

His mic skills. I mean wow. I mean peope shit on aj styles for his mic skills but he is actually pretty good imo. People love on ambrose but he is fucking awful. And balor? The worst main event mic worker EVER imo. No intensity. Just awfully awful.

.His ring work sucks. Doing kicks is boring. You dont draw by doing shit like that. You draw by wrestling a physical style with good ring work and not just spotfeasts and kicking people 700000 times. Example of people who work the right way from nxt is Jordan from american alphas or whatever they are called. Those guys have intensity in their work and its actually fun to watch him throw around some jobbers. 

Balor sucks. I get why you push someone like apollo cruz even though I am not a fan. At least the dude is jacked up and strong. 

Seriously the new era has ambrose, ziggler, balor and rollins in the main event of summerslam? God help us. A bunch of midgets. Although rollins is big enough to main event, none of the others are. Rollins has more ability to draw than the rest of them combined.

WWE is now an indy company. Time to get indy ratings. Watch network subs fall from almost 2 million to 1 million by the end of the year.

GARBAGE


----------



## razzathereaver (Apr 2, 2012)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Are you Kevin Nash in disguise?


----------



## Y.2.J (Feb 3, 2015)

I don't think there's anything wrong with Finn Balor being launched to the top. Everyone knows his worth, at least the one's that follow pro-wrestling. If they can build an interesting feud between Rollins and Balor the casuals will get into it as well.

I think everything worked in Balor's favour. He's the former NXT Champion, WWE fans know who he is, the WWE hit the mass reset button, all storylines (for the most part) have been erased, and the brands have been split, therefore the whole RAW brand is on a clean slate. Everyone goes back to level playing ground, everyone has to rework their way to be the top of the RAW brand.

Except Rollins. Because he's the man. :rollins


----------



## Sweggeh (Feb 12, 2016)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

I don't even blame the people hating on Finn for this, I blame the WWE. They put on a level he isn't comfortable at way too early. The timing of his push is all wrong. He needs to get the casual fans behind him before he gets this kind of push. But just putting him out there without letting him improve his mic skills and adjust to the main roster is a terrible idea.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Sure, he won't be a draw, but neither is anyone else. Not even Brock is anymore.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Another anti Finn thread :lmao


----------



## Loopee (Oct 12, 2009)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Most uncool thing in wrestling. Oxymoron lmao


----------



## Abisial (Mar 5, 2015)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Dean Ambrose, Ziggler, and Rollins are midgets?

All those 6 foot midgets in the main event scene.


----------



## ThugaThugaBaby (Jul 11, 2016)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

This is your average dude :lol ?


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

OP gonna be so sad when that Demon Merch Train starts rolling :mj2

VINTAGE TrollestDude :cole


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Speaking of garbage. How edgy and relevant this thread is. No one draws jack anymore. Besides, perhaps you might want to wait a few seconds more before you judge Balor and his one appearance. How I love the tired indy midget complaints. :bryanlol


----------



## OwenSES (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Like others have said, no one is a draw right now. I think Balor actually has potential, he has a great look and is great in the ring and is naturally likable.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Razgriz said:


> People aren't stupid. People have phones and the internet at their fingertips.
> 
> You make an impact like... booking him for SummerSlam by beating Reigns... And that gives them reason enough to go searching for him online.


Except this style of booking has NEVER worked. Ever. It's stupid to go this route when there are much better ways of booking someone that are proven to have worked and still do work in this day and age. 



Razgriz said:


> This isn't the 80s or 90s, you don't have to introduce people so internally anymore. And with the business model WWE has set up for themselves, they have the word of mouth hardcore fans reaching out to 2 or 3 more people exclaiming how awesome Balor is.


:Wat? 

Did you read over this part before posting this? Do you not understand why this is a potentially disastrous way of trying to build someone up (which, again, has never worked)?



Kostic said:


> That's how you make a star.


No it's not.



Kostic said:


> You debut him with instant impact. Brock Lesnar and AJ Styles both won the IWGP Heavyweight Championship in THEIR FIRST MATCH in NJPW, and were the biggest stars over there instantly. If you want to make a guy a star, you don't debut him against some jobber and make him feel like just another guy. You make a real impact with him.


IWGP isn't the WWE. It's not even close. You're gonna have to do better than that.


----------



## anirioc (Jul 29, 2015)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*

Anti Finn Balor thread number 191829182301921.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*






CoolestDude said:


> I dont get it. Someone tell me whats so great about this guy.
> 
> His entrance is cringe worthy, the way he fiddles with his jacket is like the most un-cool thing I have seen in wrestling in a while.
> 
> ...


How tall are you? Are you also jacked?


----------



## deanambroselover (Mar 16, 2015)

Finn is obviously Vince's new golden boy since Roman was exposed as a druggy


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> No it's not.
> 
> 
> 
> IWGP isn't the WWE. It's not even close. You're gonna have to do better than that.


What a fucking great argument you have there. "No it's not". Are we children? Am I supposed to reply with "It is too!"?

As for your second part, well that's too bad. Maybe WWE should actually take some lessons from NJPW, because the latter actually know how to make a star. AJ Styles won the title in his first match and became the most over heel with the most devastating finisher, and leader of the Bullet Club. He became a star that very night, and was a star all until he left.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

There is no magic formula to building a star because if there was we would have dozens of stars today in wrestling making tons of money in WWE, njpw, tna, Lu and wcw, ecw, Awa et al would still be in business

Sometimes the slow build works, many times it doesn't and that guy or girl never rise above their initial spot and fans stop caring. Sometimes the megapush works (hulk hogans return to wwf in late 1983 says hi)..many times it doesn't work

You can only go with what you believe. WWE obviously have the numbers regarding merch and ticket sales in nxt and obviously believe that if balor is drawing at a certain level in developmental he should be able to replicate that on main roster immediately

There is no way to tell if it works or not but consider crews and Corbin have been swimming around midcard for 4-5 months and have they gained more popularity because of it...


----------



## DaGawd44 (Jul 21, 2016)

Finn is very talented but he needs to be a heel. He is much better in the ring and on the mic as a heel. I will say that his promo on Raw was fine though. Typical WWE baby face promo, not his fault that WWE writers the sane promo for every baby face besides guys like New Day and Enzo and Cass who actually have freedom. Also people comparing Finn to Roman Reigns don't understand the difference. While I think that they may benefit more from giving Finn a slow build, they needed a new baby face star for Raw. Finn has been wrestling for a long time, is a decent draw in Japan and Europe already, fans love and respect his years of work, and he is the founder of one of the hottest acts in wrestling, an act so hot that WWE had to capitalize on it. He isn't some football player who shot straight to the top because of his size and his bloodline. I like Roman but he didn't have the name value, respect, or ability of Finn when he got pushed. He is great now but he had to adapt quickly. I also see that you bitched about them pushing AJ Styles "too fast" so your whole argument is invalidated. He's 39 years old, a big draw, and better than the rest of the roster of course they aren't gonna debut him in the midcard. He was a main eventer on national TV for over a decade. I swear you WWE marks are funny.


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

Kostic said:


> As for your second part, well that's too bad. Maybe WWE should actually take some lessons from NJPW, because the latter actually know how to make a star. .


no offense but y should vince do that. He's a billionare. with a company traded on wall street. does njpw owner say the same. that's not to say that vince bats .999, he's not GOD, but he still is drawing profits even with lower ratings and house numbers. I think the problem is the writing to tell the truth. it makes no sense to have that much physically talented performers and not have material to engage fans. most fans don't want 2 hours and 30 mins of wrestling on raw , that's why we have ppv. there should be more compelling storylines. I swear this past raw there was just pointless talking in the ring, flashback segments, and wrestling, why would people stay around for that.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> What a fucking great argument you have there. "No it's not". Are we children? Am I supposed to reply with "It is too!"?


What more am I supposed to say? My original post alone explains why that's not how you build a star. I'm not going to repeat myself. If you want an explanation on why you're wrong, read my post. 



Kostic said:


> As for your second part, well that's too bad. Maybe WWE should actually take some lessons from NJPW, because the latter actually know how to make a star. AJ Styles won the title in his first match and became the most over heel with the most devastating finisher, and leader of the Bullet Club. He became a star that very night, and was a star all until he left.


The New Japan Pro Wrestling fanbase is completely different from the WWE fanbase. What works in NJPW isn't going to work in the same way in the WWE. I shouldn't have to explain this. It's not rocket science. Again, you're gonna have to do better than that.



DaGawd44 said:


> I also see that you bitched about them pushing AJ Styles "too fast" so your whole argument is invalidated. .


Do yourself a favor and re-read the post again. Here, I'll even post the part you're referring to:



AlternateDemise said:


> I found myself asking this same question when Kevin Owens and AJ Styles (although given how close they were to Wrestlemania at that point, I gave that a pass).


Read it VERY CAREFULLY (and excuse the fact that a made a modest fuck up in forgetting to put debuted in there after Styles. My bad).


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> What more am I supposed to say? My original post alone explains why that's not how you build a star. I'm not going to repeat myself. If you want an explanation on why you're wrong, read my post.


When Finn Balor debuted, the crowd popped. It wasn't an earth-shattering pop, because not everyone knew who he was.

When he beat Reigns at the end of the night, the crowd went FUCKING CRAZY. There's your star, already made. You give a slow build to guys that actually need it. Finn Balor is over. End of fucking story.

It's pointless to make this argument that "this is not how you build a star" so early in his run. If Finn Balor flops, then yes, your argument is proven. If he becomes the hottest thing ever, then your argument flies out the window. Only two Raws have passed, and in both of them, Balor was one of the most over guys on the show. In the second one, most of the audience didn't even watch NXT (as shown by the very small amount of people that did Balor's arm spread gimmick), and he was still over as hell.

But the point is, your argument should be made after the fact.


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

DaGawd44 said:


> . He isn't some football player who shot straight to the top because of his size and his bloodline. I like Roman but he didn't have the name value, respect, or ability of Finn when he got pushed. He is great now but he had to adapt quickly. .


but roman never got a wwe championship opportunity the same night.


----------



## Hawkke (Apr 2, 2012)

A-C-P said:


> You really can't see the differences between Stone Cold vs Mr McMahon, Daniel Bryan vs The Authority, and Reigns vs The Authority "stories" and you just think the Reigns vs The Authority didn't work just b/c people read "dirt sheets"?
> 
> It really had nothing to do with the stories of the first 2 being written better and the performers involved really being able to pull off the story in a way that allowed the audience to get drawn? Please. There are so many reasons that Daniel Bryan vs The Authority worked and Reigns vs The Authority didn't that you get to before people read dirt sheets and just decided they hate Reigns just because...


After a little more thought on the subject I can finally put my finger exactly on why for me, personally the Reigns Vs. Authority push rubbed me the wrong way as opposed to the Brian Vs Authority. When I think of Brian vs.The Authority it felt fluid, and as many like to point out "organic" which is part of the whole point of storytelling. I had more to say on the subject.. but I suppose it's better left unsaid due to the tragic nature of his retirement.

Now when I think of Reigns "vs." The Authority I think of something wholly different.. I envision Vince sitting in his office shaking his fist at the screen.. ""*Don't You Feel His Suffering*??.. _which will be rectified in whole next week_.." "*Connect with him DAMMIT!!*.. _even though he says everyone hates their lives_.." "Just Look At Him CRY!!.. _through his blatantly false colored contacts.._!!" To be quite frank that is epitome of condescending. Taking the proverbial 2x4 to people's head to create an environment of compassion.. when has that ever ever worked?


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

Hawkke said:


> After a little more thought on the subject I can finally put my finger exactly on why for me, personally the Reigns Vs. Authority push rubbed me the wrong way as opposed to the Brian Vs Authority. When I think of Brian vs.The Authority it felt fluid, and as many like to point out "organic" which is part of the whole point of storytelling. I had more to say on the subject.. but I suppose it's better left unsaid due to the tragic nature of his retirement.
> 
> Now when I think of Reigns "vs." The Authority I think of something wholly different.. I envision Vince sitting in his office shaking his fist at the screen.. ""*Don't You Feel His Suffering*??.. _which will be rectified in whole next week_.." "*Connect with him DAMMIT!!*.. _even though he says everyone hates their lives_.." "Just Look At Him CRY!!.. _through his blatantly false colored contacts.._!!" To be quite frank that is epitome of condescending. Taking the proverbial 2x4 to people's head to create an environment of compassion.. when has that ever ever worked?


You bring up Vince, and that brings me back to my point of the part of why Austin/McMahon and Bryan/Authority being better in part b/c of the people involved playing the roles better.

The couple weeks Reigns vs The Authority actually WORKED in anyway was the couple weeks Vince McMahon himself got involved....


----------



## sbzero546 (Aug 19, 2015)

Oh come on!! It has only been a couple of weeks into this draft era. We all knew that it was going to be crap


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> When Finn Balor debuted, the crowd popped. It wasn't an earth-shattering pop, because not everyone knew who he was.
> 
> When he beat Reigns at the end of the night, the crowd went FUCKING CRAZY. There's your star, already made. You give a slow build to guys that actually need it. Finn Balor is over. End of fucking story.


:Wat?

1. The crowd didn't go "fucking crazy". Don't exaggerate so you have something to go off of in your argument. You just end up looking worse in the end. 

2. It's Roman Reigns. He's being booed out of any and every building he goes into. If you beat him in shockingly clean fashion, especially for a chance to compete in one of the main events of Summerslam (so you're preventing him from getting said chance), you're going to get a positive reaction from the crowd. All you're doing right now is grasping at straws.



Kostic said:


> It's pointless to make this argument that "this is not how you build a star" so early in his run. If Finn Balor flops, then yes, your argument is proven. If he becomes the hottest thing ever, then your argument flies out the window. Only two Raws have passed, and in both of them, Balor was one of the most over guys on the show. In the second one, most of the audience didn't even watch NXT (as shown by the very small amount of people that did Balor's arm spread gimmick), and he was still over as hell.
> 
> But the point is, your argument should be made after the fact.


My argument isn't proven at all if Balor flops. That's not what my argument is here. Answer this question I'm about to ask you. Lets say this match doesn't happen and instead Balor is putting on great matches in the mid card. Fast forward to a year later, it's Summerslam 2017 and now this match is about to happen. It's never happened before and it's considered a dream match. Balor is a lot more established as a performer and Rollins of course is one of the top guys on the brand. All of a sudden, this match feels like a much bigger deal that, in the end, benefits both guys tremendously because just the build up alone makes these two look like bigger stars than they actually are. The same effect happened with the build up to the Shield/Wyatts match. It was nothing more than a mid card match but the the history of these two teams and their different paths and them now facing off for the first time made it a HUGE deal. And in the end, it didn't matter who lost, because people knew how good both teams were at that point. 

Doing the Balor/Rollins match this early does absolutely no favors for Balor. None. He loses, and right away his next feud is a step down for him and he has to try to find a way to pick up some steam now and work his way back up. Balor wins, and you're forcing the issue incredibly and putting him in a spot that he has no business being in because there's still a large amount of fans who don't know jack shit about you and won't care enough to find out. And worst of all, it robs them of that opportunity to actually do this in the near future to truly establish Balor as a star. And if you want to make the case that they "needed stars", I can just point out that Sami Zayn was in the perfect position to receive this exact push thanks to his big win against Owens at battleground and having a lot of momentum and spark coming off of his highly talked about match with Owens.


----------



## Josh Paroski (Jul 19, 2016)

At least it's not Roman Reigns lol


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> :Wat?
> 
> 1. The crowd didn't go "fucking crazy". Don't exaggerate so you have something to go off of in your argument. You just end up looking worse in the end.
> 
> 2. It's Roman Reigns. He's being booed out of any and every building he goes into. If you beat him in shockingly clean fashion, especially for a chance to compete in one of the main events of Summerslam (so you're preventing him from getting said chance), you're going to get a positive reaction from the crowd. All you're doing right now is grasping at straws.


Yes, yes they did.



AlternateDemise said:


> My argument isn't proven at all if Balor flops. That's not what my argument is here. Answer this question I'm about to ask you. Lets say this match doesn't happen and instead Balor is putting on great matches in the mid card. Fast forward to a year later, it's Summerslam 2017 and now this match is about to happen. It's never happened before and it's considered a dream match. Balor is a lot more established as a performer and Rollins of course is one of the top guys on the brand. All of a sudden, this match feels like a much bigger deal that, in the end, benefits both guys tremendously because just the build up alone makes these two look like bigger stars than they actually are. The same effect happened with the build up to the Shield/Wyatts match. It was nothing more than a mid card match but the the history of these two teams and their different paths and them now facing off for the first time made it a HUGE deal. And in the end, it didn't matter who lost, because people knew how good both teams were at that point.


The difference between this and Shield/Wyatt situation was that The Shield and Wyatts were the only two dominant factions on the show. It made perfect sense not to rush it, and to build it up more and more because there was really no-one else you could say "You know who would be a great opponent for The Shield?" So you keep both factions strong and dominant, until they finally clash in a great match.

Finn Balor has an abundance of dream opponents he could face. Finn Balor vs. Seth Rollins is happening now. Later on, you could do Finn Balor vs. Cesaro. And after that, Finn Balor vs. Sami Zayn. Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens. Finn Balor vs. Bray Wyatt. Finn Balor vs. AJ Styles. Finn Balor vs. Shinsuke Nakamura. Finn Balor vs. Brock Lesnar. Finn Balor vs. John Cena. Finn Balor vs. Triple H. Great possibilities.

The Shield and Wyatts didn't have any other options for a big dream match other than each other, so it made sense to wait and build it up.



AlternateDemise said:


> Doing the Balor/Rollins match this early does absolutely no favors for Balor. None. He loses, and right away his next feud is a step down for him and he has to try to find a way to pick up some steam now and work his way back up. Balor wins, and you're forcing the issue incredibly and putting him in a spot that he has no business being in because *there's still a large amount of fans who don't know jack shit about you and won't care enough to find out*. And worst of all, it robs them of that opportunity to actually do this in the near future to truly establish Balor as a star. And if you want to make the case that they "needed stars", I can just point out that Sami Zayn was in the perfect position to receive this exact push thanks to his big win against Owens at battleground and having a lot of momentum and spark coming off of his highly talked about match with Owens.


But that's exactly where you're wrong. If a casual fan, who never saw NXT and doesn't even know who Finn is, sees Finn Balor as some midcard guy, it doesn't matter how good his matches are. He's just a midcard guy, and WWE's treatment of midcard has made fans used to thinking "Oh well, it's midcard, so it doesn't matter". If he sees him for the first time and "HOLY SHIT, THIS GUY JUST BEAT ROMAN REIGNS!! Maybe I should check him out!" Then this casual fan watches SummerSlam. He sees Balor's entrance and thinks "Damn, this guy is so cool. That entrance was great, and he's so over (which, let's face it, in Brooklyn, Balor will definitely be)". At this point, Balor has already won this fan over, even if he loses.

Let me ask you a question, would Kane's debut be as impactful and as memorable as it was if he debuted against some midcard guy, instead of interfering in the first-ever Hell in a Cell match, breaking that door off, and Tombstoning Undertaker? Yeah, Kane did lose to The Undertaker afterwards. Doesn't make it any less of a phenomenal debut, and one that everyone still remembers.

Would Jericho's debut be as memorable as it was, if he was cutting a promo on some midcard guy rather than The Rock? Would Goldberg's debut be as memorable as it was, if he had Speared and laid out some midcard guy, rather than The Rock?

Because the bottom line is, if you want to make sure the guy is a big superstar, you give him a debut that befits a big superstar. Even if Finn loses (and I expect he will), it won't harm him very much, because just by debuting the way he did and beating Reigns and becoming #1 contender, he already placed his name on the map.

I mentioned NJPW because they are masters when it comes to making people into stars. The audience doesn't matter. No Westerner is going to complain about NJPW making AJ Styles champion in his first match, because they did a brilliant fucking job of protecting AJ Styles as an incredibly valuable piece of the puzzle, and that's what he was.

And I actually agree with your last point that they definitely should have followed up on Sami Zayn's victory over Owens because as it stands now, he doesn't even have a match at SummerSlam.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

Josh Paroski said:


> At least it's not Roman Reigns lol


He is even worse


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> Yes, yes they did.


Go on youtube and watch the video. No they didn't.



Kostic said:


> The difference between this and Shield/Wyatt situation was that The Shield and Wyatts were the only two dominant factions on the show. It made perfect sense not to rush it, and to build it up more and more because there was really no-one else you could say "You know who would be a great opponent for The Shield?" So you keep both factions strong and dominant, until they finally clash in a great match.


A valid point.



Kostic said:


> Finn Balor has an abundance of dream opponents he could face. Finn Balor vs. Seth Rollins is happening now. Later on, you could do Finn Balor vs. Cesaro. And after that, Finn Balor vs. Sami Zayn. *Finn Balor vs. Kevin Owens.* *Finn Balor vs. Bray Wyatt.* Finn Balor vs. AJ Styles. Finn Balor vs. Shinsuke Nakamura. *Finn Balor vs. Brock Lesnar.* *Finn Balor vs. John Cena.* *Finn Balor vs. Triple H. *Great possibilities.


How are the bolded dream match ups? You just gave me a bunch of random match ups with no context in regards to their respective situations (or that already happened). And even the rest you're once again ignoring context. Rollins and Balor, the two top male draft picks for Raw. Enough said.



Kostic said:


> But that's exactly where you're wrong. If a casual fan, who never saw NXT and doesn't even know who Finn is, sees Finn Balor as some midcard guy, it doesn't matter how good his matches are.


Yes it does. In fact it matters greatly. There's this thing called booking, and it can make a huge impact on audience perception. And I have no problem pointing out numerous examples in WWE's history that were just "mid card" matches that ended up jumpstarting a wrestlers career. 



Kostic said:


> Let me ask you a question, would Kane's debut be as impactful and as memorable as it was if he debuted against some midcard guy, instead of interfering in the first-ever Hell in a Cell match, breaking that door off, and Tombstoning Undertaker? Yeah, Kane did lose to The Undertaker afterwards. Doesn't make it any less of a phenomenal debut, and one that everyone still remembers.


Are you actually trying to compare one of the greatest debuts in WWE history which involved arguably the greatest Hell in a Cell match of all time to Finn winning two matches on an episode of Raw?

Try again. 



Kostic said:


> Would Jericho's debut be as memorable as it was, if he was cutting a promo on some midcard guy rather than The Rock? Would Goldberg's debut be as memorable as it was, if he had Speared and laid out some midcard guy, rather than The Rock?


:Wat? 

Jericho's debut was built up and lead up to that particular moment. It was a big fucking deal when he finally debuted.

Oh and by the way, what was Jericho doing after that? In case you don't remember, it took three weeks to finally have his in ring debut, and then he followed that up by feuding with CHYNA for the IC title. Fucking Chyna. Oh yeah, that worked out incredibly well for Jericho. Oh wait.



Kostic said:


> Because the bottom line is, if you want to make sure the guy is a big superstar, you give him a debut that befits a big superstar. Even if Finn loses (and I expect he will), it won't harm him very much, because just by debuting the way he did and beating Reigns and becoming #1 contender, he already placed his name on the map.


This would be fine and all, but that's not how this works. Again, this match does nothing good for Balor. Unless WWE finally becomes competent when it comes to consistently booking someone well again, Balor is going to immediately go to doing nothing relevant in the following months after losing to Rollins. And in case you want to say "times have changed", remember Paige? The girl who ended AJ Lee's long title reign in her debut on Raw? How well did that turn out?

Again, I'm not ruling out that Balor could become a big star some day. That's not my main point. I simply think there are much more efficient and better ways to go about debuting him and pushing him from here. And yes, putting him in squash matches is one of them. It's not the route I would go, because even then, there are better options. What they are doing now isn't. It's not a good option.


----------



## oldschoolfan (Sep 7, 2015)

*Re: Finn Balor will never be a draw. He sucks*



CoolestDude said:


> I dont get it. Someone tell me whats so great about this guy.
> 
> His entrance is cringe worthy, the way he fiddles with his jacket is like the most un-cool thing I have seen in wrestling in a while.
> 
> ...


I agree only ones watching are a small niche audience that the WWE continues to cater too. Wrestling as I once loved has turned into garbage.


----------



## TaterTots (Jul 22, 2016)

I disagree, Finn Balor's push is perfectly justified at this point. Not only is he a far better talent both in and out of the ring than the likes of Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns, but he is a 15+ year vet that has succeeded both Europe and Japan and has also been instrumental to the growth of NXT as it's own brand and also in the signing of talents like AJ Styles and Nakamura, who wen to WWE thanks to Balor. He is the ideal top babyface to have now representing the company due to his appeal in the Japanese market whom the WWE are trying to expand to.

WWE know they have a top dependable talent in Balor and so they are making their play. He will also sell a ton of merch specially with the whole demon gimmick.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> Go on youtube and watch the video. No they didn't.


I did. Did too.



AlternateDemise said:


> How are the bolded dream match ups? You just gave me a bunch of random match ups with no context in regards to their respective situations (or that already happened). And even the rest you're once again ignoring context. Rollins and Balor, the two top male draft picks for Raw. Enough said.


Dream match-ups are made by building them up. They may seem random now, but build up New Face of Fear vs. The Demon or The Demon vs. The Beast and you could have a goldmine on your hands.




AlternateDemise said:


> Yes it does. In fact it matters greatly. There's this thing called booking, and it can make a huge impact on audience perception. And I have no problem pointing out numerous examples in WWE's history that were just "mid card" matches that ended up jumpstarting a wrestlers career.


No, it doesn't. All these things such as booking, workrate, promo ability, etc. etc. matter to hardcore fans. A casual fan will eat up anyone as a big deal, if you present them as a big deal. That's why Roman Reigns regularly gets roof-blowing pops at house shows, and not just among kids either. The difference between a hardcore wrestling fan and a casual wrestling fan is like a difference between a movie buff and a guy who just watches movies: the former may appreciate acting skills, good script, etc. and scoff at action movies with Jason Statham in them, while the latter will watch the movie because there are flashy fight scenes and Jason Statham is such a badass.




AlternateDemise said:


> Are you actually trying to compare one of the greatest debuts in WWE history which involved arguably the greatest Hell in a Cell match of all time to Finn winning two matches on an episode of Raw?
> 
> Try again.


No. What I'm saying is that the entire reason Kane's debut is considered one of the greatest ever is for the magnitude of it. Finn's is certainly not on the same level, but is enough that you will remember it for a long time.

And please don't throw such comments at me like "try again", "try harder", "you gotta do better than that", etc. They're incredibly condescending, and that's something that I try not to be to you. This isn't a fight and I'm not trying to one-up or "defeat" you. It's a conversation.




AlternateDemise said:


> :Wat?
> 
> Jericho's debut was built up and lead up to that particular moment. It was a big fucking deal when he finally debuted.
> 
> Oh and by the way, what was Jericho doing after that? In case you don't remember, it took three weeks to finally have his in ring debut, and then he followed that up by feuding with CHYNA for the IC title. Fucking Chyna. Oh yeah, that worked out incredibly well for Jericho. Oh wait.


Finn Balor's debut is a big fucking deal as well. Wrestling fans have been waiting for it and talking about it for months. Don't act like Finn Balor is a nobody. Even if he was to non-NXT fans before his debut, he certainly is a big deal now.




AlternateDemise said:


> This would be fine and all, but that's not how this works. Again, this match does nothing good for Balor. Unless WWE finally becomes competent when it comes to consistently booking someone well again, Balor is going to immediately go to doing nothing relevant in the following months after losing to Rollins. And in case you want to say "times have changed", remember Paige? The girl who ended AJ Lee's long title reign in her debut on Raw? How well did that turn out?


You can't really compare Balor to Paige, because Balor is one of HHH's darlings. He will be pushed and protected. Paige was not.



AlternateDemise said:


> Again, I'm not ruling out that Balor could become a big star some day. That's not my main point. I simply think there are much more efficient and better ways to go about debuting him and pushing him from here. And yes, putting him in squash matches is one of them. It's not the route I would go, because even then, there are better options. What they are doing now isn't. It's not a good option.


Squash matches is a way to get over guys like Braun Strowman, who can't really work all that well and aren't over, so you try and get them over in 1-minute beatdowns, as anything longer than that will harm them because it will expose just how bad they are still. Finn Balor doesn't need squash matches to get over, he already is.

My main point is that you cannot say how there are better ways to go about it, because in order to say that, you must see the end of it. If Balor does become a big star and they are intent on protecting him to the point that he becomes the most over guy on the roster and a marquee match at WrestleMania, then this was the perfect way to go about it. You can't say "it's not a good option", because in order for it to not be a good option, Balor must flop. He still hasn't. As it stands now, it was a very memorable and strong debut and so far, there have been no clues whatsoever that Balor may fail on the main roster. So you don't really have any basis to talk how it wasn't a good way to go about it.


----------



## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

Look, WWE decided to be bold and debuted Bálor in a big way. He made an impact and is in a huge match at Summerslam. I respect their decision regardless of whether I like him or not. I hope for his sake that he doesn't' win at Summerslam, and then WWE plays it cool with his booking. He'll probably join up with Anderson and Gallows eventually and turn heel, so i'm hoping they go that route with him.


----------



## Y.2.J (Feb 3, 2015)

Abisial said:


> Dean Ambrose, Ziggler, and Rollins are midgets?
> 
> All those 6 foot midgets in the main event scene.


According to pro wrestling wiki:

Dean Ambrose is 6'4, 225 pounds.
Seth Rollins is 6'1, 221 pounds.
Dolph Ziggler is 6'0, 218 pounds.
Finn Balor is 5'11, 180 pounds.

The ironic thing is: Seth Rollins, Dolph Ziggler, Finn Balor all look more jacked, ripped, and toned to me compared to Dean Ambrose. If there's an average looking guy in the WWE it's Dean, the others are considerably more bulkier/toned than the average person.

If Dean Ambrose height at 6'4 is correct, that is the reason for his decent weight size. He is very average looking. That said, I've enjoyed his work recently. As long as he's more serious and less goofy.


----------



## CoolestDude (Dec 11, 2014)

Architect-Rollins said:


> I like that they are giving us a new fresh feud with Rollins and Balor. Most likely due to Reign's suspension. But a lot of people have been waiting on this match since Seth came back from his injury. It's a dream match up. But I have to say, there are a handful of guys who have been on the roster longer who were more deserving of a title shot. Guys Seth has yet to have proper feuds with. But this is where WWE is going so hopefully the match with Rollins and Balor will pay off. I think it will.


How the fuck is finn balor vs seth rollins a "dream match up". Maybe to 40,000 hardcore indy fans but not in the mainstream. A dream match up was hogan vs warrior and rock vs austin. This is just another filler feud with no story or characters. They just stick balor in the main event with zero build. Its bad business. Expect ratings to drop and drop if they dont push people the right way. You cant play to the house which is just the vocal minority. You have to make good tv. And nobody knows who balor is so who is going to be invested in him


----------



## TheGrandmaster (Apr 3, 2015)

You guys complain and moan and bitch incessantly about the same guys getting pushed and "rammed down our throat" like John Cena and Roman Reigns. You call for "new talent" to be pushed, built up, and given a chance. So they do exactly that with Finn Balor. And people still complain. There literally is no pleasing these fans. If he would have feuded with some pissant on his way up they would have said he's been wasted. Whatever people need to do to complain they will. 

Finn Balor is not "new." We already know his character. He's been on NXT for years. He's one of the baddest dudes in the company. He's whipped Kevin Owens clean in single combat for the NCT title. Someone like that should come onto the main roster already near the top. For people who "don't know" him, I say watch the product. You'd know him from NXT. NXT isn't some Ohio Vally thing where the train and wrestle a little bit then come to "start" their careers as nobodies. NXT is part of the product, part of the canon, as basically a RAW light. 

Watch the product and you'll know Finn Balor and others like him.



CoolestDude said:


> How the fuck is finn balor vs seth rollins a "dream match up". Maybe to 40,000 hardcore indy fans but not in the mainstream. A dream match up was hogan vs warrior and rock vs austin. This is just another filler feud with no story or characters. They just stick balor in the main event with zero build. Its bad business. Expect ratings to drop and drop if they dont push people the right way. You cant play to the house which is just the vocal minority. You have to make good tv. And nobody knows who balor is so who is going to be invested in him


The people who pay their bills know who Balor is. The people who buy the merch, subscribe to the network, and purchase the product know damn well what NXT is and thus Balor. It's the people watching Raw for free from time to time in passing who aren't going to the shows or buying anything who don't know who Balor is. Balor isn't "new." He's been the damned NXT champion and on NXT for years.


----------



## CoolestDude (Dec 11, 2014)

TheGrandmaster said:


> You guys complain and moan and bitch incessantly about the same guys getting pushed and "rammed down our throat" like John Cena and Roman Reigns. You call for "new talent" to be pushed, built up, and given a chance. So they do exactly that with Finn Balor. And people still complain. There literally is no pleasing these fans. If he would have feuded with some pissant on his way up they would have said he's been wasted. Whatever people need to do to complain they will.
> 
> Finn Balor is not "new." We already know his character. He's been on NXT for years. He's one of the baddest dudes in the company. He's whipped Kevin Owens clean in single combat for the NCT title. Someone like that should come onto the main roster already near the top. For people who "don't know" him, I say watch the product. You'd know him from NXT. NXT isn't some Ohio Vally thing where the train and wrestle a little bit then come to "start" their careers as nobodies. NXT is part of the product, part of the canon, as basically a RAW light.
> 
> Watch the product and you'll know Finn Balor and others like him.


False. He sucks. And even if he doesnt suck then its irrelevent because he has had no build. He showed up on raw one week and is in the main event of summerslam now. SO why should anyone care? You realise that only a tiny % of the wwe's viewing audience watches nxt and knows who he is? For most people he just showed up on raw and they dont even know who he is.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

CoolestDude said:


> How the fuck is finn balor vs seth rollins a "dream match up". Maybe to 40,000 hardcore indy fans but not in the mainstream. A dream match up was hogan vs warrior and rock vs austin. This is just another filler feud with no story or characters. *They just stick balor in the main event with zero build. Its bad business. Expect ratings to drop and drop if they dont push people the right way.* You cant play to the house which is just the vocal minority. You have to make good tv. And nobody knows who balor is so who is going to be invested in him


All I've been hearing is people wanting to see Rollins vs Balor. So to them, yes it's a dream match. It's a fresh match up which what people wanted for Rollins. Now I said there were other people who deserved the title match over Finn. But this is the direction WWE is going in. Vince and HHH like Balor, tough luck. 

Rating are already low. That argument is pretty invalid at this point. Push people the right way? There is no right way with fans. Fans complain that feuds are old and stale. So WWE decides to actually push someone new and fans still complain. It's a lose/lose.


----------



## CoolestDude (Dec 11, 2014)

TheGrandmaster said:


> The people who pay their bills know who Balor is. The people who buy the merch, subscribe to the network, and purchase the product know damn well what NXT is and thus Balor. It's the people watching Raw for free from time to time in passing who aren't going to the shows or buying anything who don't know who Balor is. Balor isn't "new." He's been the damned NXT champion and on NXT for years.


And how is that going to draw in the general tv and sports fans that austin and the attitude era used to draw in? Nobody watches japanese wrestling or nxt. Or a very very small number of people do. Jesus dude I am on a wrestling forum so I am a hardcore fan and even i dont watch nxt



Architect-Rollins said:


> All I've been hearing is people wanting to see Rollins vs Balor. So to them, yes it's a dream match. It's a fresh match up which what people wanted for Rollins. Now I said there were other people who deserved the title match over Finn. But this is the direction WWE is going in. Vince and HHH like Balor, tough luck.
> 
> Rating are already low. That argument is pretty invalid at this point. Push people the right way? There is no right way with fans. Fans complain that feuds are old and stale. So WWE decides to actually push someone new and fans still complain. It's a lose/lose.


No you win by putting on good tv. That simply all there is to it. 

Think of it from a tv perspective. Imagine you are watching some tv show and some random extra dies or something. You wont give a fuck. Now imagine a character that has been built for years on tv dies. SOmeone who you know their character and everything. Then people give a fuck. That is what makes good tv. Look at the dude from game of thrones dying. Everyone is going crazy over it. Are they going crazy over the random extra who dies every show? Nope. Because there is no emotional attachment.

With balor there is no attachment because there is no build. He is a nothing. People dont even know a thing about it so why should we care about whether he wins or not.

I actually dont think it matters who they push. THey just have to make good tv. Mark wars are pointless.


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

Why does everyone need the "slow build" push? Whats wrong with him coming in straight away and winning the title? That's far more impressive than losing to the likes of Del Rio, Sheamus, etc throughout the year and then having an "underdog" chance at the title at some PPV.

Balor is legit one of the best wrestlers in the world. He's been one of the best for years. He caters to every type of wrestling fan.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

CoolestDude said:


> Think of it from a tv perspective. Imagine you are watching some tv show and some random extra dies or something. You wont give a fuck. Now imagine a character that has been built for years on tv dies. SOmeone who you know their character and everything. Then people give a fuck. That is what makes good tv. Look at the dude from game of thrones dying. Everyone is going crazy over it. Are they going crazy over the random extra who dies every show? Nope. Because there is no emotional attachment.


I get the point you're trying to make. But this is WWE. Nothing is truly well thought out long term. Besides most likely they assume everyone watches NXT. So they know what Balor's about. He was the top guy there so why not bring him in full force to face one of the top guys on the main roster. It's not hard to figure out why.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> I did. Did too.


If you're just going to keep living in that fantasy world then by all means. 



Kostic said:


> Dream match-ups are made by building them up. They may seem random now, but build up New Face of Fear vs. The Demon or The Demon vs. The Beast and you could have a goldmine on your hands.


And you're telling me WWE is capable of doing that? The same company that had the opportunity to do Zayn vs Owens at Wrestlemania with a lot of great build behind it and instead went with a seven man ladder match that Zack Ryder won?



Kostic said:


> No, it doesn't. All these things such as booking, workrate, promo ability, etc. etc. matter to hardcore fans. A casual fan will eat up anyone as a big deal, if you present them as a big deal. That's why Roman Reigns regularly gets roof-blowing pops at house shows, and not just among kids either.


So wait, you say it doesn't matter, and then you go on to say that if you present them as a big deal, then casuals will eat it up.

Do you not realize what's wrong with your logic here?



Kostic said:


> No. What I'm saying is that the entire reason Kane's debut is considered one of the greatest ever is for the magnitude of it. Finn's is certainly not on the same level, but is enough that you will remember it for a long time.


Again, you're gonna have to do better than this. "Enough that you will remember it for a long time", logic like this isn't going to work. Maybe over on youtube with the abundance of trolls that lurk the WWE videos, but not on here. You don't know that. I don't know that. And it's not something I'm going to claim is or isn't going to happen. 



Kostic said:


> And please don't throw such comments at me like "try again", "try harder", "you gotta do better than that", etc. They're incredibly condescending, and that's something that I try not to be to you. This isn't a fight and I'm not trying to one-up or "defeat" you. It's a conversation.


Yes, it is a conversation. And so far all you've done is grasp at straws with your logic. Rather than point out why I'm wrong, all you've done is attempt to convince me to believe what you're saying. "Finn's debut is one you will remember for a long time", "you could make the demon vs demon a dream match up", I could say "Finn Balor is going to lead a new ratings movement" and it'll have just as much validity as what you're trying to say here. Rather than give me bullshit hypotheticals and trying to exaggerate how big of a pop Balor got or how big of a deal his debut was, actually point to some examples that prove that what they are doing now with Balor proves my argument wrong. And no, don't give me Kane's debut or Jericho's debut. Those aren't even close to being similar and all you've accomplished by telling me those is that you have very little understanding of how pro wrestling works. 

So, I am asking you, to try harder. Because what you're doing right now isn't going to convince me or anyone else for that matter. 



Kostic said:


> Finn Balor's debut is a big fucking deal as well. Wrestling fans have been waiting for it and talking about it for months.


You can apply that logic to anyone. Again, you're gonna have to do better than this. 



Kostic said:


> You can't really compare Balor to Paige, because Balor is one of HHH's darlings. He will be pushed and protected. Paige was not.


I don't know where you're getting your facts from, but Triple H was a huge supporter of Paige (and still is). 



Kostic said:


> Squash matches is a way to get over guys like Braun Strowman, who can't really work all that well and aren't over, so you try and get them over in 1-minute beatdowns, as anything longer than that will harm them because it will expose just how bad they are still. Finn Balor doesn't need squash matches to get over, he already is.


Dude, enough already. You're not fooling anyone by constantly claiming Balor's already over.






Go to the end where Rollins attempts to assault Balor and Balor retaliates. Listen to that reaction. You call that a guy whose over with the audience?

It's bad enough you tried to paint the audience reaction to Balor winning against Reigns as "going crazy", but you're now committing the ultimate straw grasping by claiming Balor's already over despite the fact that his only noteworthy crowd responses came in the form of a match against Roman Reigns, the guy the audiences passionately hate and whose opponents typically get louder reactions against, especially if they're faces.

And no, that's not what squash matches are for. Squash matches are made to introduce wrestlers to an audience. It's where they show off their skills and put on display what they are capable of so audiences and viewers have an idea of who they are and what to expect from them. It doesn't apply to just heavyweights. If you think it does, you obviously haven't been watching wrestling for very long.



Kostic said:


> My main point is that you cannot say how there are better ways to go about it, because in order to say that, you must see the end of it. If Balor does become a big star and they are intent on protecting him to the point that he becomes the most over guy on the roster and a marquee match at WrestleMania, then this was the perfect way to go about it. You can't say "it's not a good option", because in order for it to not be a good option, Balor must flop. He still hasn't. As it stands now, it was a very memorable and strong debut and so far, there have been no clues whatsoever that Balor may fail on the main roster. So you don't really have any basis to talk how it wasn't a good way to go about it.


Yes I can, because as you have shown multiple times now, you are completely disregarding what my main point is and you're continuing to harp on the whole "Balor could still be over when this is all said and done". I was never disputing that. I have pointed this out to you over and over again. And for some odd reason you keep going back to that argument and I've already debunked it over and over again. If you continue to repeat that in your next response, then I'm just going to chalk this up as another win for me and move on with others, because you clearly aren't getting it. 

My point is, WWE is throwing the two top draft picks they got (as far as males are concerned) into a match at Summerslam. Problem is, most of the WWE audience isn't familiar with Finn Balor, and this is an indisputable fact. What should feel like one of the biggest matches of the year is weakened by the fact that most of us are expecting Rollins to win this. That shouldn't be the case between the top two picks on the roster. If it is, then that's a huge problem. If you do this match one year from now where Balor's much more established and the idea of him winning isn't an unlikely scenario, you've got something big here. Hell you could even try this at Wrestlemania if Balor is built up well. But now as it is, Balor's first PPV opponent is Rollins and nothing that happens here will help his progression going forward. If he wins, it's forcing the issue and if he loses, he's going in reverse and his next program is suddenly a step down when, considering how he's coming right out of NXT, he should be doing nothing other than an upwards progression. And if I'm wrong, please feel free to actually point out scenarios where this happened. Meanwhile, I've got about four different scenarios that happened in this exact matter that ended up happening exactly how I'm predicting this will turn out. So if you want to tell me I'm wrong, don't give me hypotheticals. PROVE IT to me.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> If you're just going to keep living in that fantasy world then by all means.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This isn't a fucking duel, dude. There's nothing to "win". You've been nothing but a condescending prick and I don't see how it was called for, considering I was respectful to you throughout. And when I ask you to cut it out, you continue being rude and insulting me. As I said, it's a conversation, a debate even. It's not a fucking battle.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Honestly, would you be complaining if Balor was a 6'5 muscle freak who looked more " legit"? probably not.
I mean Big Show won the title on his first night ( that's the only example that came to mind right now, but many won major titles too soon, not even a year in WWE, and Balor's been there for 2 )

Let's think of this that WWE knows how good this guy is, let's pretend he is one of the best wrestlers in the world, one of the most vicious and devious and talented, He's been in WWE for 2 years also and getting tons of exposure. I don't see any reason not to push him.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

2K JAY said:


> Why does everyone need the "slow build" push? Whats wrong with him coming in straight away and winning the title? That's far more impressive than losing to the likes of Del Rio, Sheamus, etc throughout the year and then having an "underdog" chance at the title at some PPV.
> *
> Balor is legit one of the best wrestlers in the world.* He's been one of the best for years. He caters to every type of wrestling fan.


 Where does this nonsense come from? He's had only ONE 4.5 star or more match in his whole career. If you're in that top bracket you'd have hell of a lot more great matches than that. 

Balor struggles to make the top 10 in the WWE, there are easily a few ahead of him in the CWC as well, then there's NJPW, ROH, PWG etc.


----------



## TaterTots (Jul 22, 2016)

AlternateDemise said:


> What should feel like one of the biggest matches of the year is weakened by the fact that most of us are expecting Rollins to win this. That shouldn't be the case between the top two picks on the roster. If it is, then that's a huge problem. If you do this match one year from now where Balor's much more established and the idea of him winning isn't an unlikely scenario, you've got something big here.


But Balor winning at Summer Slam is not an unlikely scenario, it is a very likely one. If you think otherwise you haven't been paying attention. Balor is set to replace Roman Reigns as the top babyface of the company and they have been grooming and preparing him down in NXT just for that. I'd go as far as to say that him beating Seth Rollins and ushering he whole new era with a new belt and a new talent as the champion is the most likely scenario.




Straw Hat said:


> Balor struggles to make the top 10 in the WWE, there are easily a few ahead of him in the CWC as well, then there's NJPW, ROH, PWG etc.


You have gone on record saying that Roman Reigns is a better wrestler than Balor, you really have no credibility.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

TaterTots said:


> But Balor winning at Summer Slam is not an unlikely scenario, it is a very likely one. If you think otherwise you haven't been paying attention. Balor is set to replace Roman Reigns as the top babyface of the company and they have been grooming and preparing him down in NXT just for that. I'd go as far as to say that him beating Seth Rollins and ushering he whole new era with a new belt and a new talent as the champion is the most likely scenario.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Compare their body of work for the last 2 years, you'd have no credibility if you put Balor ahead of Roman.

Roman's ability in the ring is grossly underrated, sure he's not among the best but he's certainly capable of putting on a great match. I can't say that for Balor, from what I've heard, Balor's whole run in NXT was pretty average. 

He had world class opponents to work with and still couldn't nail out a single great match (Joe, Nakamura, KO and Neville). You could excuse the one average match, but he has failed time and time again to put out a great memorable match despite working with some of the best in the world.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> This isn't a fucking duel, dude. There's nothing to "win". You've been nothing but a condescending prick and I don't see how it was called for, considering I was respectful to you throughout. And when I ask you to cut it out, you continue being rude and insulting me. As I said, it's a conversation, a debate even. It's not a fucking battle.


:Wat?

When did I ever insult you? I questioned your post and knowledge on the subject matter. As far as you personally? I haven't said anything demeaning to you. Don't whine and claim I'm being a prick because I don't agree with your opinion. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> Honestly, would you be complaining if Balor was a 6'5 muscle freak who looked more " legit"? probably not.


Actually yes I would, since my issues with this doesn't have anything to do with his size.



The Definition of Technician said:


> I mean Big Show won the title on his first night ( that's the only example that came to mind right now, but many won major titles too soon, not even a year in WWE, and Balor's been there for 2 )


Big Show didn't win the title on his first night. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> Let's think of this that WWE knows how good this guy is, let's pretend he is one of the best wrestlers in the world, one of the most vicious and devious and talented, He's been in WWE for 2 years also and getting tons of exposure. I don't see any reason not to push him.


He hasn't been on the main roster for two years however. He's been on NXT, a show that more than half of the audience doesn't watch.



2K JAY said:


> Why does everyone need the "slow build" push? Whats wrong with him coming in straight away and winning the title? That's far more impressive than losing to the likes of Del Rio, Sheamus, etc throughout the year and then having an "underdog" chance at the title at some PPV.


When did I ever suggest having Balor spend his year losing to guys like Del Rio and Sheamus and then enter the match up against Seth Rollins as the underdog? Again, are any of you guys even reading my post? My point was to build Balor up so that way he's on equal footing with Rollins when they finally face off and it's a true dream match rather than have Balor be in the underdog role like he is right now.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> :Wat?
> 
> When did I ever insult you? I questioned your post and knowledge on the subject matter. As far as you personally? I haven't said anything demeaning to you. Don't whine and claim I'm being a prick because I don't agree with your opinion.


Fair enough, you haven't outright insulted me. But your whole method of debunking anything I say is "You're wrong, your logic is wrong, try again.", plus the annoying gifs. It's very irritating, and I have politely asked you to stop because there is no need for that, and you just continued doing it. That's rude. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong with a clever retort, but not when you end everything with a snide remark, because you just kill any desire I have to continue the exchange. I could have just said "This whole thread is stupid, I don't know where you get that logic, try harder OP." But I didn't, yet you're doing it to every post I make.




AlternateDemise said:


> When did I ever suggest having Balor spend his year losing to guys like Del Rio and Sheamus and then enter the match up against Seth Rollins as the underdog? Again, are any of you guys even reading my post? My point was to build Balor up so that way he's on equal footing with Rollins when they finally face off and it's a true dream match rather than have Balor be in the underdog role like he is right now.


But there is no need to build Balor up any further to make it a dream match, because it already IS a dream match. And even if it wasn't, even if we're wasting it away now, there are a bunch of other matchups that, when built up properly, could all be incredibly hot matches, both as singles and as Balor Club with A&G. Would it have been wiser to give him a slow build? You can't know that, not yet. He's just arrived for God's sake.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> Fair enough, you haven't outright insulted me. But your whole method of debunking anything I say is "You're wrong, your logic is wrong, try again.", plus the annoying gifs. It's very irritating, and I have politely asked you to stop because there is no need for that, and you just continued doing it. That's rude. I'm quite happy to be proven wrong with a clever retort, but not when you end everything with a snide remark, because you just kill any desire I have to continue the exchange. I could have just said "This whole thread is stupid, I don't know where you get that logic, try harder OP." But I didn't, yet you're doing it to every post I make.


So do something about it then. Prove me wrong. Don't counter act me with the same stuff over and over again. 



Kostic said:


> But there is no need to build Balor up any further to make it a dream match, because it already IS a dream match.


To YOU it may be (or maybe you don't, I don't know, you've never outright stated you think so, but I'm gonna go on record here and assume it for now). But to the people who aren't familiar with his work? The people who make up more than half of the WWE fanbase? This isn't a dream match to them. 

That's the issue here. And it's a point of mine that people are continuing to ignore.



Kostic said:


> And even if it wasn't, even if we're wasting it away now, there are a bunch of other matchups that, when built up properly, could all be incredibly hot matches, both as singles and as Balor Club with A&G. Would it have been wiser to give him a slow build? You can't know that, not yet. He's just arrived for God's sake.


But these are Raw's two top picks of the draft. They both wrestle similar styles. They come from similar backgrounds. This is the best possible kind of dream match you could make for the Raw brand, and they're giving it away right here and now with no build up and no chance for a lot of the audience to get a chance to know Balor. Yeah sure you've got other guys you can build up the idea of a dream match with on the roster, but it's like I said in regards to WWE not doing a Zayn/Owens match at Wrestlemania when they very clearly should have. When you've got a potential gold mind on your hands, why on earth would you go with anything other than that?


----------



## tboneangle (Jan 14, 2009)

No problem with him getting the match as its a way to give him a push and show his potential without fully committing to him. That said him winning the belt would be the wrong choice at this time.


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

Oh look, a thread complaining about a fan favorite who isn't getting squashed on the main roster. Heaven forbid we're not seeing Reigns vs Rollins for the hundredth time


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> So do something about it then. Prove me wrong. Don't counter act me with the same stuff over and over again.


That's exactly the problem, we can't *prove* each other wrong until we've seen how Balor's career played out. Only after some time has passed and we have seen how Balor has been used on the main roster will we be able to judge whether this was a good idea or a bad idea. Six months from now, we could be looking at a legit main eventer and thinking how it was a genius decision to debut him the way they did. Or, we could be looking at a dead-in-the-water midcarder and thinking how it was stupid that they put him in the world title scene right off the bat, instead of building him up first.



AlternateDemise said:


> To YOU it may be (or maybe you don't, I don't know, you've never outright stated you think so, but I'm gonna go on record here and assume it for now). But to the people who aren't familiar with his work? The people who make up more than half of the WWE fanbase? This isn't a dream match to them.
> 
> That's the issue here. And it's a point of mine that people are continuing to ignore.


But I am one of those people, more or less. I'm not a fan of Finn Balor. I don't dislike him, but I haven't been a fan of him. Despite what my profile says, I'm not that into NXT (only certain TakeOvers, and not because of Finn). However, they've managed to sell me on the guy simply because they've presented him as such a superstar. They made me care about what the guy does next because of that, because unlike the majority of WWE roster, he actually matters. So many NXT debuts have been absolutely DoA, it's nice to see there is one they care about enough to give him an actual push. That's why I argue that it doesn't matter if you have followed his earlier career or not. Many of those people who don't watch NXT have watched Raw, and many of them have begun to care about Balor because of the way they presented him. The cool gimmick and entrance, especially Demon entrance will certainly help.

And for me personally, dream match for Finn Balor has always been Bray Wyatt, so maybe that's why I don't mind that they aren't building up the Seth Rollins match. But the thing is, even if they did Balor vs. Wyatt right away, I wouldn't mind since it is SummerSlam and it's a big enough stage. I would mind if they did it on a B PPV, like when they finally did the Shield 3-way and it was on fucking Battleground when many have wanted it to headline Mania.




AlternateDemise said:


> But these are Raw's two top picks of the draft. They both wrestle similar styles. They come from similar backgrounds. This is the best possible kind of dream match you could make for the Raw brand, and they're giving it away right here and now with no build up and no chance for a lot of the audience to get a chance to know Balor. Yeah sure you've got other guys you can build up the idea of a dream match with on the roster, but it's like I said in regards to WWE not doing a Zayn/Owens match at Wrestlemania when they very clearly should have. When you've got a potential gold mind on your hands, why on earth would you go with anything other than that?


It's a good point, but who would you put there instead? Reigns? That's already a bit played out. Sami Zayn would be a good choice coming off his win at BG, but it's obvious they see him nothing more than a midcard guy and the eternal underdog. The guy doesn't even have a match at SummerSlam. When you look at the full Raw roster, and you look at all the guys the WWE favors, who but Balor is a good choice to be pushed?


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> That's exactly the problem, we can't *prove* each other wrong until we've seen how Balor's career played out. Only after some time has passed and we have seen how Balor has been used on the main roster will we be able to judge whether this was a good idea or a bad idea. Six months from now, we could be looking at a legit main eventer and thinking how it was a genius decision to debut him the way they did. Or, we could be looking at a dead-in-the-water midcarder and thinking how it was stupid that they put him in the world title scene right off the bat, instead of building him up first.


Neither of those scenarios would prove me right or wrong because I'm not arguing against that.



Kostic said:


> But I am one of those people, more or less. I'm not a fan of Finn Balor. I don't dislike him, but I haven't been a fan of him. Despite what my profile says, I'm not that into NXT (only certain TakeOvers, and not because of Finn).


Fair enough, same.



Kostic said:


> It's a good point, but who would you put there instead? Reigns? That's already a bit played out. Sami Zayn would be a good choice coming off his win at BG, but it's obvious they see him nothing more than a midcard guy and the eternal underdog. The guy doesn't even have a match at SummerSlam. When you look at the full Raw roster, and you look at all the guys the WWE favors, who but Balor is a good choice to be pushed?


Like I said, Sami Zayn. It would have required WWE to have treated Zayn differently on the night of Raw's first night as its own brand again. And I have no doubt in my mind that he would have more momentum and this match would have a lot more intrigue and would be looked at as a bigger deal. The idea of "can Rollins overcome Zayn's momentum"? What's going on with Balor just isn't as interesting, and it has nothing to do with his talent. It's all about the story and momentum (especially momentum). Momentum plays a big part in a wrestler's progression.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> Neither of those scenarios would prove me right or wrong because I'm not arguing against that.


You've stated how this match does nothing for Balor. I said that you can't know that at this point, because if they play their cards right with him, this match will have done wonders for him. If they don't, well...

In any case, the way they follow it up will tell.



AlternateDemise said:


> Like I said, Sami Zayn. It would have required WWE to have treated Zayn differently on the night of Raw's first night as its own brand again. And I have no doubt in my mind that he would have more momentum and this match would have a lot more intrigue and would be looked at as a bigger deal. The idea of "can Rollins overcome Zayn's momentum"? What's going on with Balor just isn't as interesting, and it has nothing to do with his talent. It's all about the story and momentum (especially momentum). Momentum plays a big part in a wrestler's progression.


And Daniel Bryan would have been the perfect choice to win the RR in 2014 and 2015, but WWE was never going to do that. If we were to talk about all the things WWE does wrong or all the things they do different than the fans would want, that conversation would go on forever. Had Balor been met with silence and apathy, or had he been booed and they still kept pushing him, I would agree he wasn't the choice. But he was cheered on both Raws. Even if you dispute what I said how the fans went crazy for him, you must admit that he was cheered. Which means that the fans aren't exactly complaining about Balor being pushed. And being kept strong and protected will only improve his standing with the fans.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Kostic said:


> You've stated how this match does nothing for Balor. I said that you can't know that at this point, because if they play their cards right with him, this match will have done wonders for him. If they don't, well...
> 
> In any case, the way they follow it up will tell.


I'll let you have this one for now, but you should know that history is not on his side. You'll understand it soon enough.



Kostic said:


> And Daniel Bryan would have been the perfect choice to win the RR in 2014 and 2015, but WWE was never going to do that.


Eh, I was actually on the side of the fence that felt Bryan shouldn't have won in 2015, but 2014 I agree. 



Kostic said:


> If we were to talk about all the things WWE does wrong or all the things they do different than the fans would want, that conversation would go on forever. Had Balor been met with silence and apathy, or had he been booed and they still kept pushing him, I would agree he wasn't the choice. But he was cheered on both Raws. Even if you dispute what I said how the fans went crazy for him, you must admit that he was cheered. Which means that the fans aren't exactly complaining about Balor being pushed. And being kept strong and protected will only improve his standing with the fans.


You're missing my point. I'm saying momentum does a lot more for you in terms of storyline progression and build up. Zayn would have that, right now Balor doesn't. Let me give you an example. 





 
Watch this video for a moment. Now pay particular attention to how they put extra emphasis on the fact that Bayley has now beaten Charlotte and Becky. Just having that says an awful lot about Bayley's progression and how much she has grown, and it gives the audience a perception of how she should be viewed. She worked her way up. She's had her own unique journey to this moment and it means a lot. You can point out that Balor was cheered on both Raws, I'm not going to disagree with that. But that's not the point I'm making here and it doesn't take away from what I'm trying to argue to begin with. The fact of the matter is, there were guys much better suited for this than what Balor's going through right now, and I feel that WWE missed out on an opportunity to keep Balor and Rollins away from each other for a while and build up this idea that they are truly the two best draft picks for the brand and finally have them face off rather than just throw the match together without giving Balor any time to grow on the brand.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

AlternateDemise said:


> Big Show didn't win the title on his first night.


in WCW, didn't he? and I'm pretty sure it didn't take him long in WWF as well.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> I'll let you have this one for now, but you should know that history is not on his side. You'll understand it soon enough.


As if I started watching wrestling yesterday. I know what you mean. However, Finn Bálor is different than Sheamus, for example, because he is pretty much NXT's version of Roman Reigns, as in a guy who's considered face of the brand. I find it very likely they'll keep him protected and not just let him end up dead in the water. But at the end of the day who the hell knows.



AlternateDemise said:


> Eh, I was actually on the side of the fence that felt Bryan shouldn't have won in 2015, but 2014 I agree.


My opinion is the other way around, actually. In 2015 he had just come back after a neck injury unjustly ended his main event run and put him on the sidelines for months, so he definitely should have won instead of Reigns. In 2014, he shouldn't have won for the simple reason that he should have been the one holding the title. Let's face it, a Bryan vs. Cena rematch at TLC 2013 would have been much more epic than the 936th edition of Cena vs. Orton.



AlternateDemise said:


> You're missing my point. I'm saying momentum does a lot more for you in terms of storyline progression and build up. Zayn would have that, right now Balor doesn't. Let me give you an example.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But that's exactly it: the whole significance of Balor's push on Raw is that it's the same story as if it were a slower build, only that slower build happened before and leading up to his debut. Instead of needing a longer period to built him up and make him into a star, the WWE have accomplished that in a single 3-hour show, by having him defeat Rusev, Cesaro and Owens in the first match and finally, Roman Reigns in the main event. That's the whole beauty of it. Think of it like Daniel Bryan's coronation at WM XXX, where he beat the entire Evolution minus Flair to win the title. Bryan's big story was the "brave underdog against the evil authority" deal, while Finn's was his years-long journey from the indies, through NXT and finally to the main roster, where he debuted in the best possible way and achieved his own "coronation". That's precisely the story they told in his promo with Seth Rollins, and that's precisely why it's such a good debut.


----------



## Super Hetero Male (Jul 1, 2016)

I don't think it's really a bad thing that they're trying to rocket push Balor. They're trying to make a new star, so it's completely understandable. What I do think is hilarious is the unfathomable hypocrisy that some people seem to show by getting behind his push while for the last two years have been losing their shit over the push Roman Reigns has received.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

Never really had a problem with Reigns's push as much as the way that he was booked. They never really stuck to a single groove for him and stuck with it. The guy's a decent worker, the Hell in a Cell match with Bray was great. The entire audience cheering him on for tearing up the place post TLC was awesome. But then the next night they tried to portray him as this "fun loving guy" that just doesn't work for him. They also were soo damn blatant in their attempt at getting him over that they ended up throwing the entire roster (except for Brock) under the bus... it just wasn't working but they pressed on. 

I actually liked the AJ/Reigns series of matches, it was one of the better booked things from the first half of the year.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Because Triple H expects every WWE fan to watch NXT. Since Balor was the longest reigning NXT Champion, I guess officials feels he's built up already to go after the biggest prize on RAW.


> What I do think is hilarious is the unfathomable hypocrisy that some people seem to show by getting behind his push while for the last two years have been losing their shit over the push Roman Reigns has received.


Its no different than Reigns, you're right, BUT fans actually like Balor.

- Vic


----------



## ChrisMain83 (Dec 18, 2015)

IWC: Boo Roman because he's not who they want (he's not who i want either)
WWE: Pushes one of the best wrestlers and characters in the wrestling WORLD in Finn Balor/The Demon.
IWC: Balor shouldn't be getting this push.

Seriously, we complain when they push Roman down our throats and he is not who I think should be at the top either, but when they try to make new stars from genuinely talented guys who have worked their ass off for 15 years to get to this stage. That's not good enough either? 

Balor is one the best wrestlers/"sports entertainers" in the world. Anyone who says otherwise needs to have their heads looked at. Don't go on the whole "he's too small" thing either. Talent should have no glass ceiling, and Balor is one of the most talented.

He's had consistently great matches wherever he's went. Whether that be Japan, UK, Germany, Australia, NXT and now RAW. His work over the last 15 years will stand up against ANYBODY in WWE today.


----------



## Raw-Is-Botchamania (Feb 13, 2015)

Super Hetero Male said:


> I don't think it's really a bad thing that they're trying to rocket push Balor. They're trying to make a new star, so it's completely understandable. What I do think is hilarious is the unfathomable hypocrisy that some people seem to show by getting behind his push while for the last two years have been losing their shit over the push Roman Reigns has received.


If someone can't see the difference between the two, that someone simply has no business being a wrestling Fan.


----------



## 256097 (Aug 11, 2013)

Midget boogeyman gona flop in front of the casuals.


----------



## The RainMaker (Dec 16, 2014)

Finn Balor shouldn't be. Bobby Roode should be in that spot. GLORIOUS.


----------



## reilly (May 9, 2005)

God wwe sucks, wwe is crap, wwe never gives new guys the chance, wwe never pushes new guys. 

Then when wwe takes a chance and pushes someone new, fresh and different - wwe sucks, wwe is crap, why are they pushing this guy, he can't talk, he has no charisma, he is too small, he is not believable!!

Any wonder wwe does what they want and doesn't really care what the fans think!


----------



## The RainMaker (Dec 16, 2014)

reilly said:


> God wwe sucks, wwe is crap, wwe never gives new guys the chance, wwe never pushes new guys.
> 
> Then when wwe takes a chance and pushes someone new, fresh and different - wwe sucks, wwe is crap, why are they pushing this guy, he can't talk, he has no charisma, he is too small, he is not believable!!
> 
> Any wonder wwe does what they want and doesn't really care what the fans think!


He can't talk, he does lack charisma.

That being said, I hope he wins at SS. If you're gonna do it, go all out. Why have him lose?


----------



## reilly (May 9, 2005)

NoleDynasty2490 said:


> He can't talk, he does lack charisma.
> 
> That being said, I hope he wins at SS. If you're gonna do it, go all out. Why have him lose?


Yeah he isn't the greatest talker but he defo has charisma.

And how do people become better at things? They practice, they keep at it!

I'm not fussed on if he wins at summerslam or not as I like both guys competing.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

"*Rollins is perfect height for main event at 6'1 ... Balor is a "midget" at 5'11?*"

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

I could understand criticism of Balor based on opinion. If you were saying you don't like his style, or his gimmick ... But simply stating that he's a bad wrestler (blatantly, outrageously incorrect btw) and too small to ever get over ... yeah, because no one around his height ever got over or ever drew a dime, did they ... ?

I mean, the following wrestlers are all within 3 inches of Balor - or actually shorter:

Ric Flair - yeah, the asshole that just said Balor is too short to be champion ... is literally only 3 inches taller than Balor himself.
Shawn Michaels
Seth Rollins
John Morrison/Johnny Mundo
The Miz
Rey Mysterio
Daniel Bryan
Mick Foley
Randy Savage
Eddie Guerrero (5'8 btw, 3 inches shorter than Balor)
Chris Benoit (5'11, the same as Balor)
AJ Styles (*Again *the same height as Balor. Where are the "midget" comments for these guys?)

Oh, and Stone Cold Steve Austin, also at 6'2 - only 3 inches taller.

That's just a random list of wrestlers, just ones that came to mind. So, unless you're going to insist that Mysterio and Bryan weren't worthy of title reigns because they are too short ... and that 2 or 3 inches _is _actually enough to be the difference between drawing a crowd and not, you really need to drop this whole "midget" thing,

All I'll say in agreement with Balor criticism is that yeah, his mic work isn't great. But Reigns just held the title for months and he's got less personality than a rock.

If you don't like Balor just because he's popular with indie fans, or because you don't want to just follow what everyone else is doing - just say so, will you?
Trying to back up your opinions with terrible arguments really doesn't help your case. Also, it would help if you made an effort to make it less obvious you've only been aware of him since the draft. Criticising Balor's ring entrance ... just ... LOL dude. LOL.

... I guess you'll respond with "ugh, his body paint and demon entrance is shit and will only appeal to kids ..." blah blah

Yeah, you're wrong. NXT's fanbase is PREDOMINANTLY 20+ years old and The Demon gimmick was over with EVERYONE in the building.
And yeah, it'll appeal to kids - but you're just arguing against yourself there, becuase Kid Appeal = Merch Sales = Money = Main Event.

You didn't want the same 6 tired old wrestlers dominating the main event.
Well, now you don't have that. You have Rollins, Ambrose, Ziggler, Balor ... and I expect soon, Wyatt and Styles, along with Cena.
Try to enjoy the product while it's good!


----------



## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

*I think what the OP is missing when it comes to the likes of Jax and Strowman are that they are very limited in the ring. To gain credibility, they're given squash matches because they had do the few things that they do well and come off looking awesome. Sure, you could do the same thing with somebody like Balor but why bother when he can already work a long form match?

If you flip the scenario, you have Balor working squash matches it would help to slowly build him and get people behind him. If Strowman is in longer matches though he'll be very exposed and people wont get behind him as easily. Plus he's looking like a destroyer in the short matches, if you put him in longer matches he's going to look weaker because the not only is his work not to the desired standard but also it would be taking him longer to put opponents away + he's taking more kayfabe damage from opponents.

The point of bringing somebody in and debuting as high up on the card as possible is to simply establish them. You're telling the audience that they are a big deal so they begin to sit up and notice them. The way that the OP outlined isn't a bad method and there is no right or wrong answer as both methods work and you can't use the same method every time.*


----------



## Brollins (Aug 24, 2015)

Balor ? Shit... I think I prefer Roman. RR looks 100x times more like a champion than Balor. Damn, even RR mic skills are better than Devitt.

This new era brought us new things, no doubt, but essentially what stopped being the shoving down our throats, started to be the shoving up our asses.


----------



## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

*Balor to win the title at Summerslam?*



> Current plans call for Finn Bálor to upset Seth Rollins at SummerSlam to become the first WWE Universal champion. Both Vince McMahon & Triple H are backing him for the spot.
> Unsuprisingly, the same reports predicting a Bálor win say they'll be making Raw's Universal belt the top prize in the company, with SmackDown's WWE World title losing some luster.
> 
> Credit: cagesideseats/WO


This would be a big mistake. They need to have their first WWE Universal Champion be credible. Seth is the better option here.


----------



## ChrisMain83 (Dec 18, 2015)

The best option for all involved at Summerslam is a Balor win. If not you're back in a place that alot of people were complaining about while burying Balor.

Balor should come out in full Demon get up. Beat Rollins after 20 minutes.
If Rollins beats the Demon on his first night in the war paint it defeats the mystique and aura of the character before its began on the main roster. That doesnt help anybody


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

ChrisMain83 said:


> That doesnt help anybody


What doesn't helps anybody is the sort of superman push they are giving Balor.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

*Re: Balor to win the title at Summerslam?*



The Boy Wonder said:


> This would be a big mistake. They need to have their first WWE Universal Champion be credible. Seth is the better option here.


Balor literally just beat Cesaro, Rusev, Sheamus and ROMAN REIGNS clean in the same night and you think he lacks credibility?


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



AlternateDemise said:


> No they don't. And you're only bullshitting yourself if you think otherwise. It's a well known fact that there's a still a pretty big percentage of the WWE audience that doesn't watch NXT.


I know McGregor, Rousey, Randy Couture, Frank Mir, GSP and few others, yet I don't watch UFC (nor any MMA); I know Oprah Winfrey and David Letterman, yet I don't watch American TV.

WWE has been advertising NXT as much as Raw and Smackdown in the past two years now, and you must really be living under a rock to not know who their main prospects are while at the same time watching their main roster program. Let alone the fact that it takes literaly 3 minutes to do a little research, but I agree that is not a good way to establish a character to say "well do your research".

Besides, he was welcomed pretty warmly on his debut, and it doesn't seem people are rejecting him now. It may go down as you said, and he'll be rejected later, or differently, who knows. I'm just happy I won't have to see another Reigns vs Rollins feud.


----------



## ChrisMain83 (Dec 18, 2015)

Dolorian said:


> What doesn't helps anybody is the sort of superman push they are giving Balor.


The "superman push" as you called it is going to an ELITE talent like Balor who can carry a match with anyone. 
Or do you want to be stuck pushing Reigns who has admittedly gotten better but still has to be carried in matches?

Pushing new stars who are ready for it is good for everyone. Burying new stars totally contradicts every complaint the IWC makes.

Balor SHOULD win at SummerSlam because he is genuinely one of the best in the world. Without doubt.
And the whole brand split was created to shake things up and make new stars... Balor IS the 1st star that will be created in the "new era"


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Wow the term "dream match" was actually used to describe this match...

The Indy smarks got their wish though, another shitty talent getting megapushed simply because he's an Indy Gawd and HHH has an Indy boner for him. You cant say anything negative about Fin on Facebook in particular without 10,000 raging Indy nerds going nuclear. Considering how anti Reigns this forum has been over the past year its quite ridiculous Balors megapush is as accepted as it is. Those cliche double standards.

Just another reason not to watch WWE really.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

ChrisMain83 said:


> The "superman push" as you called it is going to an ELITE talent like Balor who can carry a match with anyone.
> Or do you want to be stuck pushing Reigns who has admittedly gotten better but still has to be carried in matches?
> 
> Pushing new stars who are ready for it is good for everyone. Burying new stars totally contradicts every complaint the IWC makes.


Being "ready for it" is the key here, how do you know Balor is ready for such a push on the main roster? Because of his work in Japan, Europe and NXT? It is not the same thing as the main roster. I know Owens and Sami Zayn are ready for it as they have proven themselves on the main roster by putting out great promos and matches and have also made a solid connection with the audience already. The audience knows who they are, what their characters are about and can relate to them. But Balor? He is a blind gamble at the moment.

Pushing new stars is not the problem, by all means go for it, give Sami Zayn and Owens, both of whom just had a MOTY candidate at Battleground and are about as ready as they can be that push to the main event scene. The question is not about Balor's ability as a performer, it is about letting him take root and prove himself organically on the main roster. It is something that will also be better for Balor in the long run.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



ste1592 said:


> I know McGregor, Rousey, Randy Couture, Frank Mir, GSP and few others, yet I don't watch UFC (nor any MMA); I know Oprah Winfrey and David Letterman, yet I don't watch American TV.


Stopped reading after this. Pro Wrestling isn't UFC or talk shows. I know about a lot of pro wrestlers that I've never watched a single video of, doesn't mean I'm going to be invested in them when they debut. 



The Definition of Technician said:


> in WCW, didn't he? and I'm pretty sure it didn't take him long in WWF as well.


Umm maybe. Don't remember. 



Kostic said:


> But that's exactly it: the whole significance of Balor's push on Raw is that it's the same story as if it were a slower build, only that slower build happened before and leading up to his debut. *Instead of needing a longer period to built him up and make him into a star, the WWE have accomplished that in a single 3-hour show*, by having him defeat Rusev, Cesaro and Owens in the first match and finally, Roman Reigns in the main event.


Okay so let me see if I got this right. You're telling me to wait and see how things pan out and yet you're telling me WWE's already made a star in Finn Balor? At some point you need to draw the line here and realize that what you're saying is not only ridiculous but it goes against what you were saying before. Finn Balor's not a star (yet), and if he is, there's no possible way we can know that right now because it's only been two weeks and considering how little of a reaction he got this past Raw, I would say he's pretty far from being a star. But again, it's only been two weeks. So shouldn't we be waiting to see? 



Kostic said:


> Think of it like Daniel Bryan's coronation at WM XXX, where he beat the entire Evolution minus Flair to win the title. Bryan's big story was the "brave underdog against the evil authority" deal, while Finn's was his years-long journey from the indies, through NXT and finally to the main roster, where he debuted in the best possible way and achieved his own "coronation".


:skip2

Are you actually trying to justify Balor's push by comparing it to Bryan's Wrestlemania 30 journey? The fuck?


----------



## ChrisMain83 (Dec 18, 2015)

Dolorian said:


> Being "ready for it" is the key here, how do you know Balor is ready for such a push on the main roster? Because of his work in Japan, Europe and NXT? It is not the same thing as the main roster. I know Owens and Sami Zayn are ready for it as they have proven themselves on the main roster by putting out great promos and matches and have also made a solid connection with the audience already. The audience knows who they are, what their characters are about and can relate to them. But Balor? He is a blind gamble at the moment.
> 
> Pushing new stars is not the problem, by all means go for it, give Sami Zayn and Owens, both of whom just had a MOTY candidate at Battleground and are about as ready as they can be that push to the main event scene. The question is not about Balor's ability as a performer, it is about letting him take root and prove himself organically on the main roster. It is something that will also be better for Balor in the long run.


As far as I'm concenrned yes he is ready for it, as are Zayn and Owens and for me Nakamura too, and the work all of those guys have done over the world have a large part to play in it. Balor said something in his promo, whether it was written for him or not I dont know, wherever he's went he's became the guy. He has became the best in any promotion/brand he's been in. And I see Raw as no different, right now sure the casual viewer might not think of him as the guy. But they will, I have no doubts about that. Coming out of Summerslam people will be talking about how good Balor/Rollins was, not because of Seth but because BOTH men will up their game and BOTH deserve to be where they are.

Putting him in the match out the bat is telling the viewer that he is a big deal and if they dont watch NXT, come Summerslam, they'll know he's a big deal.


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



AlternateDemise said:


> Stopped reading after this. Pro Wrestling isn't UFC or talk shows. I know about a lot of pro wrestlers that I've never watched a single video of, *doesn't mean I'm going to be invested in them when they debut.*


As I am not invested in Balor debutting, but not because I don't know him, it's just that I never really gave a flying fuck about him.

People know how about Balor, and if he'll be rejected that will be because they don't care about him (or worse, they just want him to fuck off). People knew Reigns, he's been two years in the hottest faction in the last decade; they just didn't care enough to support this guy rising to the top.

Will it happen with Balor? Maybe, but that doesn't mean people have been living in a cave and don't know who the hell Balor is.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



AlternateDemise said:


> Okay so let me see if I got this right. You're telling me to wait and see how things pan out and yet you're telling me WWE's already made a star in Finn Balor? At some point you need to draw the line here and realize that what you're saying is not only ridiculous but it goes against what you were saying before. Finn Balor's not a star (yet), and if he is, there's no possible way we can know that right now because it's only been two weeks and considering how little of a reaction he got this past Raw, I would say he's pretty far from being a star. But again, it's only been two weeks. So shouldn't we be waiting to see?


Finn Balor has been made into a star. The "wait and see" deal refers to the fact that WWE has a track record for turning stars into non-stars. In 2011, CM Punk was a SUPERSTAR after MitB, yet they managed to squash it. Rusev was a star because of his undefeated streak, then he got made into Cena's bitch and is no longer one. Owens was a star when he destroyed Cena on his debut and beat him clean in his first match, but then was put right back in the midcard. Balor is a star now, but who knows where he'll be six months from now.




AlternateDemise said:


> :skip2
> Are you actually trying to justify Balor's push by comparing it to Bryan's Wrestlemania 30 journey? The fuck?


Yes. It's an analogy. If you don't get it, I don't know what more to tell you. You're the one keeps talking about "prove me wrong" and "logical arguments" and whatnot. So far, I see that your own arguments only go as far as "the fuck??" which is not particularly impressive, nor clever.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



ste1592 said:


> As I am not invested in Balor debutting, but not because I don't know him, it's just that I never really gave a flying fuck about him.
> 
> People know how about Balor, and if he'll be rejected that will be because they don't care about him (or worse, they just want him to fuck off). People knew Reigns, he's been two years in the hottest faction in the last decade; they just didn't care enough to support this guy rising to the top.
> 
> Will it happen with Balor? Maybe, but that doesn't mean people have been living in a cave and don't know who the hell Balor is.


Again, there is a huge difference between being familiar with a guy and knowing about him. I could know a pro wrestlers name but if I don't know how he works in the ring or what he's capable of, then why the fuck should I care about him?



Kostic said:


> Finn Balor has been made into a star.


No, he hasn't. Stop wasting my and everyone else's time here. Pushing someone doesn't make them a star. That's not how the WWE works. You don't give someone a push and suddenly they've become a star. 

And that's where "wait and see" comes into play because for all we know he could become a star. But we have no way of knowing that right now. Has he become a house-hold name? Has he become a big ratings draw? Has he made a huge impact on the WWE as a whole? He's not a star right now, not by any stretch of the imagination. 



Kostic said:


> Yes. It's an analogy. If you don't get it, I don't know what more to tell you.


You're right, I don't get it. How are they in anyway comparable? Bryan spent five years on the main roster literally playing the underdog role. His entire career up to that point was about him trying to overcome the odds. He had an entire fanbase behind him calling for and demanding he receive his moment, until he finally got it in the face of three guys who had a significant impact on Bryan's journey at that point. Randy Orton was the guy constantly beating him and getting in his way of reclaiming the title, and stole Bryan's spot as the top guy in the company just as soon as Bryan had claimed it at Summerslam. Batista was the guy who came right back in and took what many felt should have been Bryan's push and main event spot at Wrestlemania. Triple H was basically the Vince McMahon. He was the guy who felt Bryan wasn't fit for the spot and kept him down for as long as he could. The fans (and CM Punk) changed all of that and gave Bryan his opportunity to finally have his moment, a moment NO ONE ever expected, which was Bryan main eventing Wrestlemania and walking out as the WWE Champion.

Finn Balor spent two years on NXT being one of the top guys on the brand. The entirety of his WWE career has been spent on a roster that more than half of the WWE viewing audience doesn't watch, and this is an indisputable fact. And his big moment was beating a guy that barely anyone wanted in that position in the first place. People cared more about Roman Reigns losing than Finn Balor winning. Oh and by the way, unlike Balor, a guy you're claiming is already a star now (even though he's not), Bryan actually WAS a star before Wrestlemania 30 and a big ratings draw for WWE. Winning at Wrestlemania 30 solidified his status as one of the greatest wrestlers of our time. 

All you're doing at this point is trying to find some sort of justification for what WWE is doing and you're failing miserably. All of your points are either hypothetical's (which history easily disprove anyways) or just random bullshit that I had little to no issue debunking. The fact that you couldn't see why comparing Bryan's Wrestlemania 30 push with Balor's current Summerslam push was both wrong and idiotic tells me all I need to know. If you want to continue to push the "BUT BALOR IS A STAR ALREADY" narrative, please know that I'm not going to continue responding, as I'll be looking at other posts from people who have a little more knowledge on the subject matter. You on the other hand? Try understanding what a star is. Because in case you haven't figured it out yet, it takes more than two weeks to make one in WWE.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle (Dec 6, 2011)

greasykid1 said:


> Ric Flair - yeah, the asshole that just said Balor is too short to be champion ... is literally only 3 inches taller than Balor himself.
> Shawn Michaels
> Seth Rollins
> John Morrison/Johnny Mundo
> ...


The only guys on this list that can be even remotely compared to Balor are Rey, Bryan and Styles. They are the only 3 who lack height, mass/physique AND mic skills. I mean really, you're comparing 6'2, 240lb linebacker build Austin to Finn fucking Balor?


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

ChrisMain83 said:


> As far as I'm concenrned yes he is ready for it, as are Zayn and Owens and for me Nakamura too, and the work all of those guys have done over the world have a large part to play in it. Balor said something in his promo, whether it was written for him or not I dont know, wherever he's went he's became the guy.


Then let him do so organically is the point without this type of super push, just like Owens and Zayn have shown to be worth of a main even push in the main roster. Neither in NJPW nor in NXT was Balor put on a match for the top title on his debut night, rather he worked himself up through the roster over time and then got a shot at the title. AJ Styles' work over the world is perhaps even more impressive than Balor's and yet he wasn't shot straight to the title as soon he debuted on the main roster. Same with Nakamura on NXT, he wasn't put on the title picture right away, rather he spent some months on the roster before they had him go after the title.

That's how you organically introduce and establish a new talent and get the crowd truly behind them. This type of hot shooting has a huge risk of fizzling out in short time.


----------



## solarstorm (Jan 18, 2015)

Its the WWEs plan to focus on the network. You arent introduced to new characters on free tv. New characters just show up. If you want to see a character arc and development, you need the network and nxt.

Balor had an emotional build and character growth, just like Sami. He just had most of it on NXT. If you dont have the network, the WWE wants you to feel like youre missing out.

"Why should I care about American Alpha or Balor? I dont know, but 1/3 of th crowd is orgasming over their debut. I need to check out NXT and see why."

Regular NXT viewers see nothing wrong with Balor being in the main event. We've seen him as a main eventer for what feels like forever. So they debut him like hes been known forever, like hes Kevin Nash showing up on wcw tv.


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

Dolorian said:


> Then let him do so organically is the point without this type of super push, just like Owens and Zayn have shown to be worth of a main even push in the main roster. Neither in NJPW nor in NXT was Balor put on a match for the top title on his debut night, rather he worked himself up through the roster over time and then got a shot at the title. AJ Styles' work over the world is perhaps even more impressive than Balor's and yet he wasn't shot straight to the title as soon he debuted on the main roster. Same with Nakamura on NXT, he wasn't put on the title picture right away, rather he spent some months on the roster before they had him go after the title.
> 
> *That's how you organically introduce and establish a new talent and get the crowd truly behind them. This type of hot shooting has a huge risk of fizzling out in short time.*


Where I agree, looking at the roster split what choice did they really have for the title scene on Raw? It was either having it Be Rollins/Reigns for the next how many ever months why they build some of these guys organically to the top level, or they hot shot someone to that level. I mean yes at least Zayn, Cesaro, Owens, Rusev have been around longer but just thrusting them into the title picture would also be hot shotting them to that level, given where they all currently are.

They chose Balor for 2 reasons: They think he can be a face that actually gets cheered some against "heel" Rollins and they have been right thus far, and Balor is coming in clean (as far as the main roster) so he has not had any "losses" that the audience remembers, again just talking main roster specifically. Also I do think they see Balor as a major player as a face going forward and I guarantee they see $$$$ in Demon Merch. Of course hot shotting Balor also has the potential to fizzle out quick and fail, but at this point its risks the WWE has to take with the Raw roster, b/c they have figured out they can not just rely on a ME scene of Rollins/Reigns for the next 6 months


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



AlternateDemise said:


> No, he hasn't. Stop wasting my and everyone else's time here. Pushing someone doesn't make them a star. That's not how the WWE works. You don't give someone a push and suddenly they've become a star.
> 
> And that's where "wait and see" comes into play because for all we know he could become a star. But we have no way of knowing that right now. Has he become a house-hold name? Has he become a big ratings draw? Has he made a huge impact on the WWE as a whole? He's not a star right now, not by any stretch of the imagination.


Depends if you do it right or not. With Finn, they did. And I'm not forcing you to reply. If you feel I'm wasting your time then by all means, don't pay me no mind, block me, ignore me, what the fuck ever.

If that's the meter to determine if someone is a star, then no-one would be a star except John Cena, The Undertaker, Brock Lesnar and The Rock. Nowadays, nobody can become a true star because wrestling is not as big as it used to be. Daniel Bryan, for all the overness he had, hardly drew a dime. But we still call him a star, because when you look at all the others, he stood out head and shoulders above.



AlternateDemise said:


> You're right, I don't get it. How are they in anyway comparable? Bryan spent five years on the main roster literally playing the underdog role. His entire career up to that point was about him trying to overcome the odds. He had an entire fanbase behind him calling for and demanding he receive his moment, until he finally got it in the face of three guys who had a significant impact on Bryan's journey at that point. Randy Orton was the guy constantly beating him and getting in his way of reclaiming the title, and stole Bryan's spot as the top guy in the company just as soon as Bryan had claimed it at Summerslam. Batista was the guy who came right back in and took what many felt should have been Bryan's push and main event spot at Wrestlemania. Triple H was basically the Vince McMahon. He was the guy who felt Bryan wasn't fit for the spot and kept him down for as long as he could. The fans (and CM Punk) changed all of that and gave Bryan his opportunity to finally have his moment, a moment NO ONE ever expected, which was Bryan main eventing Wrestlemania and walking out as the WWE Champion.
> 
> Finn Balor spent two years on NXT being one of the top guys on the brand. The entirety of his WWE career has been spent on a roster that more than half of the WWE viewing audience doesn't watch, and this is an indisputable fact. And his big moment was beating a guy that barely anyone wanted in that position in the first place. People cared more about Roman Reigns losing than Finn Balor winning. Oh and by the way, unlike Balor, a guy you're claiming is already a star now (even though he's not), Bryan actually WAS a star before Wrestlemania 30 and a big ratings draw for WWE. Winning at Wrestlemania 30 solidified his status as one of the greatest wrestlers of our time.
> 
> All you're doing at this point is trying to find some sort of justification for what WWE is doing and you're failing miserably. All of your points are either hypothetical's (which history easily disprove anyways) or just random bullshit that I had little to no issue debunking. The fact that you couldn't see why comparing Bryan's Wrestlemania 30 push with Balor's current Summerslam push was both wrong and idiotic tells me all I need to know. If you want to continue to push the "BUT BALOR IS A STAR ALREADY" narrative, please know that I'm not going to continue responding, as I'll be looking at other posts from people who have a little more knowledge on the subject matter. You on the other hand? Try understanding what a star is. Because in case you haven't figured it out yet, it takes more than two weeks to make one in WWE.


Apparently you didn't read my post very carefully. I never said Balor's and Bryan's stories were identical. I actually said they were quite different, but comparable in a way of them both being indy guys who've scratched and clawed for years and years to finally make it to where they are. You grasp at the outside, but fail to see the inside. And Bryan was never that big of a draw as many people believe actually. Yes, he was over as hell and people liked to do the YES thing, but his whole main event run with Orton drew bad ratings and shit money. He only began to draw ratings after his big win at WM XXX.

What you don't seem to understand is that slow build and cumulative momentum is not the only way to build someone up. Sometimes, you just pull the trigger and see what happens. And so far, it's been a huge success.


----------



## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

WWE can't win

don't push the internet darlings fast enough and they're out of touch and incompetent, the internet complains

do push the internet darlings and you're pushing them too much too fast, the internet complains

there is a lack of people to fill the main event especially with the brand split, they have to put somebodies in there


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



AlternateDemise said:


> Again, there is a huge difference between being familiar with a guy and knowing about him. I could know a pro wrestlers name but if I don't know how he works in the ring or what he's capable of, then why the fuck should I care about him?


That's true, but I still don't think that plays an huge factor in EVERY superstar's debut. I liked Wyatt from his debut, and I didn't watch NXT at the time. It's just that there are sometimes that you like and some that you don't.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: I thought Roman was the problem but it seems its also Finn Balor.*



ste1592 said:


> That's true, but I still don't think that plays an huge factor in EVERY superstar's debut. I liked Wyatt from his debut, and I didn't watch NXT at the time. It's just that there are sometimes that you like and some that you don't.


Fair enough.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

A-C-P said:


> Where I agree, looking at the roster split what choice did they really have for the title scene on Raw? It was either having it Be Rollins/Reigns for the next how many ever months why they build some of these guys organically to the top level, or they hot shot someone to that level. I mean yes at least Zayn, Cesaro, Owens, Rusev have been around longer but just thrusting them into the title picture would also be hot shotting them to that level, given where they all currently are.


I think Zayn, coming hot as he was from winning his Battleground match against Owens, was at the right spot to be moved up to the main event. Him winning the fatal four way and singles match to become the #1 contender to face Rollins would have felt quite natural. Owens you could in turn give some wins to offset his recent loses and he would be ready for the main event level post-SummerSlam. There you would have two new main event talents (one face the other heel) with a good track record in the main roster and they would have been build up in a very organic manner.




> They chose Balor for 2 reasons: They think he can be a face that actually gets cheered some against "heel" Rollins and they have been right thus far, and Balor is coming in clean (as far as the main roster) so he has not had any "losses" that the audience remembers, again just talking main roster specifically. Also I do think they see Balor as a major player as a face going forward and I guarantee they see $$$$ in Demon Merch. Of course hot shotting Balor also has the potential to fizzle out quick and fail, but at this point its risks the WWE has to take with the Raw roster, b/c they have figured out they can not just rely on a ME scene of Rollins/Reigns for the next 6 months


Of course, no doubt they see Balor as the potential new top babyface specially given Reigns' wellness policy violation which at least has put their plans to push Reigns as the top babyface in the back burner for the moment. And he does have the potential to move a lot of merchandize as well with the demon gimmick. My point is not about Balor having no potential or the WWE seeing said potential. Rather, it is about them ensuring that said potential is realized in the best and safest possible way, which hot shooting him as they are doing now doesn't seems to be.


----------



## SyrusMX (Apr 6, 2007)

He's not going to win the title, so what's it matter? Even if, by some far stretch of the imagination he does win the title, it will be with help and he joins The Club and he'll just be a pawn.

Really, I think his involvement in the main event is simply to reinforce this "new era" they're pushing while getting Rollins back on top. They weren't going to put the title on Reigns so close after a wellness policy violation, and Ambrose is carrying Smackdown, so who else would be the best fit other than Rollins, who's already over with the crowd.


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

Dolorian said:


> Then let him do so organically is the point without this type of super push, just like Owens and Zayn have shown to be worth of a main even push in the main roster. Neither in NJPW nor in NXT was Balor put on a match for the top title on his debut night, rather he worked himself up through the roster over time and then got a shot at the title. AJ Styles' work over the world is perhaps even more impressive than Balor's and yet he wasn't shot straight to the title as soon he debuted on the main roster. Same with Nakamura on NXT, he wasn't put on the title picture right away, rather he spent some months on the roster before they had him go after the title.
> 
> That's how you organically introduce and establish a new talent and get the crowd truly behind them. This type of hot shooting has a huge risk of fizzling out in short time.


I think this is the wrong way to look at Finn's push. His placement at Summer Slam accomplishes three things right off the back. 


Establishes another main eventer right out of the gate
Puts over NXT by having their former champ beat a top star. 
Reinforces the promise of the "New Era" by having something unpredictable occur immediately after the brand split. 

Given that Raw has experienced a bit of a reboot, I think its okay to execute this way in this instance. Moving forward, I'm certain that Zayn and Owens will both get their opportunities. Owens in particular is one big moment away from being a bonafide made man, so it makes sense to focus the Summer Slam spotlight on the main roster rookie to establish him right out of the gate.


----------



## TaterTots (Jul 22, 2016)

SyrusMX said:


> He's not going to win the title, so what's it matter? Even if, by some far stretch of the imagination he does win the title, it will be with help and he joins The Club and he'll just be a pawn.
> 
> Really, I think his involvement in the main event is simply to reinforce this "new era" they're pushing while getting Rollins back on top. They weren't going to put the title on Reigns so close after a wellness policy violation, and Ambrose is carrying Smackdown, so who else would be the best fit other than Rollins, who's already over with the crowd.


Finn Balor is a much more valuable talent to the WWE than Seth Rollins is. Balor is winning the title at Summer Slam and he will become the top face of the company. His work in japan has been instrumental in WWE getting their hand son people like Styles and Nakamura and also Balor's work there will help WWE reach that market which they are trying to capture.

Seth Rollins has NOTHING to offer on that level and in terms of merch Balor will be moving more merch than him in no time, if he isn't already.

Rollins already had his long run with a title and he proved to be a failure in terms of drawing numbers, they are going with Balor now.


----------



## SyrusMX (Apr 6, 2007)

TaterTots said:


> Finn Balor is a much more valuable talent to the WWE than Seth Rollins is. Balor is winning the title at Summer Slam and he will become the top face of the company. His work in japan has been instrumental in WWE getting their hand son people like Styles and Nakamura and also Balor's work there will help WWE reach that market which they are trying to capture.
> 
> Seth Rollins has NOTHING to offer on that level and in terms of merch Balor will be moving more merch than him in no time, if he isn't already.
> 
> Rollins already had his long run with a title and he proved to be a failure in terms of drawing numbers, they are going with Balor now.


I don't disagree with you, however this is the WWE we're talking about. I can't see them putting their top title on Balor at this time, and I'm sure they feel as though Rollins has more to offer for them to suck dry than Balor at this point.


----------



## MGK (Jul 29, 2016)

Balor is the straw that will break the camels back. WWE has got away with pushing CM Punk, Daniel Bryan and the like. Balor is one skinny indy midget too many. The death of WWE.


----------



## oldschoolfan (Sep 7, 2015)

I agree WWE has turned into an indy fed.


----------



## Monus (Aug 3, 2016)

I think he is being pushed so strong to make him as the face of cruiserweight division.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

The Renegade said:


> I think this is the wrong way to look at Finn's push. His placement at Summer Slam accomplishes three things right off the back.
> 
> 
> Establishes another main eventer right out of the gate
> ...


1. Which is not necessarily good thing.
2. It puts over NXT (the developmental brand) at the expense of the main roster by having Balor leap frog talent (some of whom are ready for the main event and also come from NXT) and blow through top tier guys upon debut (Reigns) and less than a month after that (Rollins). 
3. This would just be doing something new for the sake of doing something new with no rhyme nor reason to it. Not exactly a good thing.

Thing is, you can establish Balor and put over NXT without having to hot shoot him right out of the gate like they are doing. A program with Jericho upon his debut would have been a much better way to ease his transition from NXT to the main roster and to put him over with the audience in a big way. Jericho as a seasoned vet would have helped him a lot in that regard and doing things like the highlight reel they could showcase Balor and his work and sell him to the audience so that they get behind him.

That way you avoid Balor turning into the next Cena/Reigns (because let's face it going like they are that's what he's gonna be) and you can establish him in an organic manner that the audience can truly get behind. It would protect Balor and ensure his longevity and avoid the audience souring on him.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Stinger Fan said:


> Oh look, a thread complaining about a fan favorite who isn't getting squashed on the main roster. Heaven forbid we're not seeing Reigns vs Rollins for the hundredth time


Reigns and Rollins have wrestled what 3 times at most once on PPV, as much as fans here clamored for 60 KO vs Zayn feuds this is a weak argument, especially since Reigns has nothing to do with it


----------



## Super Hetero Male (Jul 1, 2016)

Raw-Is-Botchamania said:


> If someone can't see the difference between the two, that someone simply has no business being a wrestling Fan.


The difference is Roman Reigns has put on better matches in the past 2 years.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

ChrisMain83 said:


> who have worked their ass off for 15 years to get to this stage. That's not good enough either?
> .


This is an annoying mind set, you shouldn't just be doing things for characters because the guy playing the character has been working hard for X amount of years. Why should that fucking matter? On screen stuff shouldn't be wrote simply to be charitable and honor people's work ethic. The majority of folk in that locker room work hard. You could argue someone like Goldust has been working hard and talented for 30 years why isn't he getting a title shot .


Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk



reilly said:


> Yeah he isn't the greatest talker but he defo has charisma.
> 
> And how do people become better at things? They practice, they keep at it!
> 
> I'm not fussed on if he wins at summerslam or not as I like both guys competing.


But on the other hand a 15+ year vet shouldn't still be working out the basics. It's one thing when guys like Reigns, Rusev, Charlotte, or Sasha still have holes they need to fix because they're younger to the business. But when decade plus vets still have huge holes that's kind of inexcusable. Especially seeing as outside of Cesaro most of these guys were consistent main eventers everywhere.

To me it's just weird Reigns got knocked for having flaws and not being ready for his position yet people rally for a lot of his contemporaries who have almost a decade of experience and equally crippling flaws.



Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

Dolorian said:


> 1. Which is not necessarily good thing.
> 2. It puts over NXT (the developmental brand) at the expense of the main roster by having Balor leap frog talent (some of whom are ready for the main event and also come from NXT) and blow through top tier guys upon debut (Reigns) and less than a month after that (Rollins).
> 3. This would just be doing something new for the sake of doing something new with no rhyme nor reason to it. Not exactly a good thing.
> 
> ...


See, I don't think you're running into the same problem with Balor as compared to a Reigns or Cena. For starters, he's a seasoned vet as opposed to a new comer, he's headlined what the brands in your company for a year +, and most importantly you already have a good metric on what he draws for your product. 

I don't typically advocate for hot shot booking, but there are exceptions to every rule. When you're taking a new marketing approach, you *have* to come out the gate and reinforce those ideas immediately. You can't promote the "New Era" and have a main event stack of guys who've been at the top of the company for years without infusing your new talent as well. Otherwise, you run the risk of the fanbase thinking its back to status quo already and that you're promises are nothing more than hot air. 

If there is any comparison to be drawn between Balor and anyone, it would be AJ Styles. They both have a similar pedigree, with Finn having the benefit of being introduced to the WWE audience through NXT. AJ was main eventing 3 months into his run, and might have gotten a crack even earlier if it wasn't Mania season. During that time, AJ got over purely on ring work alone. He didn't his stride on the mic until recently. 

Again, you're not hotshotting somebody with no rhyme or reason. You're placing someone who they've already groomed for that spot up there at a time where it makes sense from a product perspective to put him there. Its the type of booking that's terrible if used repeatedly, but absolutely acceptable when used within reason.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Lesnar Turtle said:


> The only guys on this list that can be even remotely compared to Balor are Rey, Bryan and Styles. They are the only 3 who lack height, mass/physique AND mic skills. I mean really, you're comparing 6'2, 240lb linebacker build Austin to Finn fucking Balor?


A lot of people on this forum act like height is the only factor in size. I've seen plenty of people here say that because Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose had similar height that they were all basically the same size


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Monus said:


> I think he is being pushed so strong to make him as the face of cruiserweight division.


They're not going to have one half of their Summerslam main event, over a brand new world title, go to the CW division. No way.


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

Dolorian said:


> . I know Owens and Sami Zayn are ready for it as they have proven themselves on the main roster by putting out great promos and matches and have also made a solid connection with the audience already. The audience knows who they are, what their characters are about and can relate to them.
> 
> Pushing new stars is not the problem, by all means go for it, give Sami Zayn and Owens, both of whom just had a MOTY candidate at Battleground and are about as ready as they can be that push to the main event scene. The question is not about Balor's ability as a performer, it is about letting him take root and prove himself organically on the main roster. It is something that will also be better for Balor in the long run.


what is sami zayns character?
plus in my opinion their battleground match being considered a moty candiadate is so dependent on that move on the apron. if he hadn't done that it would just be considered a regular match, notice how the crowd was pretty subdued before that only 'popping' after that move was use, then the this is awesome chants started.kinda telling


----------



## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

RapShepard said:


> Reigns and Rollins have wrestled what 3 times at most once on PPV, as much as fans here clamored for 60 KO vs Zayn feuds this is a weak argument, especially since Reigns has nothing to do with it


RAW and the WWE have to establish new stars now that they had their brand splits. Having the same guys feud over the title again, doesn't help anyone. Balor is more than likely losing to Rollins, but him getting important wins off the bat helps him in the long run, especially beating Reigns. You don't make new stars by having them lose all the time. Currently on the roster there isn't anyone else who could be working a main event program right now just by looking at the 8 guys who were in those fatal 4 way matches. Rusev is the US champion , Sheamus is irrelevant in the main event , Cesaro isn't looked at as a main eventer , Jericho shouldn't and hasn't been in the main event in years , Zayn and Owens will more than likely be facing eachother again . So that leaves Reigns or Balor as realistic choices , Reigns has already been in the main event for nearly 3 straight years and we've already seen him go against Rollins, not to mention he failed the wellness policy . Balor needs a push , RAW needs fresh faces at the top of the card and having him get beat by Reigns would be a terrible choice. The need to establish newer stars is important and they did just that , establish a new star in Balor for those who didn't know him


You can disagree that we haven't seen enough of Reigns vs Rollins, but right now there needs something different, we don't need to see those two feuding every month for the belt.


----------



## ecclesiastes10 (Aug 2, 2016)

TaterTots said:


> Seth Rollins has NOTHING to offer on that level and in terms of merch Balor will be moving more merch than him in no time, if he isn't already.
> 
> .


why do people assume finn will be a top merch seller. isn't wwe gear towards family and kids. I may be wrong, but do you think a majority of kids will be into a dark evil looking demon and want their parents to buy that, think about this their top merch seller is cena, a good guy who represent hustle loyalty respect and what would be the cookie cutter example of a man who symbolizes goodness his shirts come in varying bright cartoonish colors, yellows, purples, oranges, red, all bold and eye catching, I may be wrong but do you want me to believe that these same kids who look up to and cheer for cena and are used by wwe to get parents to buy his gear will also clamour for the demon merch in what will prob be black/ dark red shirts with a demon on it. this isn't attidue era audience which was geared towards 18-35 men who wanted to rep stone cold , rock, nwo. Sure there are guys in the audience, they make there presence known, but I just don't expect him to be that big of a merch seller( I could be a hundred percent wrong), but if the men who attend these event and watch where really that integral in moving merch, iwc favorites like sami zayn, ko, rollins, aj would have surpassed cena and reigns by now. Kids and parents put these two guys above everyone else, numbers don't lie


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## jamesdeen1 (Jul 8, 2016)

to be a main eventer you atleast have to have decent mic skills. finn doesnt even have that. fans (especially smarks) forget this is the wwe not some indy company where you only need to be good at wrestling


----------



## Krokro (Oct 19, 2015)

jamesdeen1 said:


> to be a main eventer you atleast have to have decent mic skills. finn doesnt even have that. fans (especially smarks) forget this is the wwe not some indy company where you only need to be good at wrestling


This was true in 2001. This is no longer true judging by the influx of main event talent that have lackluster microphone skills.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Dolorian said:


> 1. Which is not necessarily good thing.
> 2. It puts over NXT (the developmental brand) at the expense of the main roster by having Balor leap frog talent (some of whom are ready for the main event and also come from NXT) and blow through top tier guys upon debut (Reigns) and less than a month after that (Rollins).
> 3. This would just be doing something new for the sake of doing something new with no rhyme nor reason to it. Not exactly a good thing.
> 
> ...


Couldn't have stated it any better myself.



Stinger Fan said:


> RAW and the WWE have to establish new stars now that they had their brand splits. Having the same guys feud over the title again, doesn't help anyone. Balor is more than likely losing to Rollins, but him getting important wins off the bat helps him in the long run, especially beating Reigns. You don't make new stars by having them lose all the time. Currently on the roster there isn't anyone else who could be working a main event program right now just by looking at the 8 guys who were in those fatal 4 way matches. Rusev is the US champion , Sheamus is irrelevant in the main event , Cesaro isn't looked at as a main eventer , Jericho shouldn't and hasn't been in the main event in years , Zayn and Owens will more than likely be facing eachother again . So that leaves Reigns or Balor as realistic choices , Reigns has already been in the main event for nearly 3 straight years and we've already seen him go against Rollins, not to mention he failed the wellness policy . Balor needs a push , RAW needs fresh faces at the top of the card and having him get beat by Reigns would be a terrible choice. The need to establish newer stars is important and they did just that , establish a new star in Balor for those who didn't know him
> 
> 
> You can disagree that we haven't seen enough of Reigns vs Rollins, but right now there needs something different, we don't need to see those two feuding every month for the belt.


Zayn and Owens aren't facing each other again any time soon. At this point, Zayn is a MUCH better choice than Balor.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

The Renegade said:


> When you're taking a new marketing approach, you *have* to come out the gate and reinforce those ideas immediately. You can't promote the "New Era" and have a main event stack of guys who've been at the top of the company for years without infusing your new talent as well. Otherwise, you run the risk of the fanbase thinking its back to status quo already and that you're promises are nothing more than hot air.


Which is all fine, no problem with that, but it is in moments like these that you would move up someone like Zayn or Owens to the main event. They are both ready and are fresh choices for the title picture, not to mention that both are former NXT champs just like Balor. Look at what they did in SmackDown Live, they went with something new and unpredictable by making Ziggler the #1 contender, someone who has been on the main roster for over a decade and has actually been champion before. There is no need to hot shot a talent that just debuted when you have people on the main roster that are ready for that push to the main event. It is a very sensible move to make to promote the "New Era".




> If there is any comparison to be drawn between Balor and anyone, it would be AJ Styles. They both have a similar pedigree, with Finn having the benefit of being introduced to the WWE audience through NXT. AJ was main eventing 3 months into his run, and might have gotten a crack even earlier if it wasn't Mania season. During that time, AJ got over purely on ring work alone. He didn't his stride on the mic until recently.


You could compare him to AJ but AJ main eventing 3 months after his debut isn't really an issue and a far cry from Balor who got inserted into (possibly) the SummerSlam main event right out of the gate on his debut night after beating a top tier talent like Reigns. AJ debuted in a Rumble he didn't win, then got into a program with Jericho where he won a match and then lost to Jericho at Mania 32 and then went after the title which he didn't win. AJ's push is just not on the same league as what they are doing with Balor, and Balor beating Rollins for the title at SummerSlam seems to be what they will be going with all to justify the "New Era".




> Again, you're not hotshotting somebody with no rhyme or reason. You're placing someone who they've already groomed for that spot up there at a time where it makes sense from a product perspective to put him there. Its the type of booking that's terrible if used repeatedly, but absolutely acceptable when used within reason.


Technically speaking everyone that is called up from NXT has been groomed to be on the main roster. I know you mean that they have groomed Balor to be a top level guy, and I agree, but that doesn't negates the fact that you still have to work into transitioning him from NXT to the main roster, getting the audience not only to know him but to truly get behind him and if their bet is on Balor as a long term top level guy, then the best and safest route to not mess things up is to have him work through the roster and get over with the audience in an organic manner. This hot shooting runs the risk of back frying and ending up with Balor just fizzling out in no time, not to mention, that it also ends up devaluing the main roster in the process.


----------



## Delsin Rowe (May 24, 2016)

He paid his dues in the indies and especially in NXT. I don't see a problem with it. He's also over already. It's not like some of the guys in the past who walked in the door and were just handed main event spots.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

TaterTots said:


> Rollins already had his long run with a title and he proved to be a failure in terms of drawing numbers, they are going with Balor now.


You think Balor will draw numbers? lol. No one in this era will draw the numbers WWE had in the past. Even Ambrose, the most over guy on the roster hasn't saved the ratings.


----------



## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

ecclesiastes10 said:


> why do people assume finn will be a top merch seller. isn't wwe gear towards family and kids. I may be wrong, but do you think a majority of kids will be into a dark evil looking demon and want their parents to buy that, think about this their top merch seller is cena, a good guy who represent hustle loyalty respect and what would be the cookie cutter example of a man who symbolizes goodness his shirts come in varying bright cartoonish colors, yellows, purples, oranges, red, all bold and eye catching, I may be wrong but do you want me to believe that these same kids who look up to and cheer for cena and are used by wwe to get parents to buy his gear will also clamour for the demon merch in what will prob be black/ dark red shirts with a demon on it. this isn't attidue era audience which was geared towards 18-35 men who wanted to rep stone cold , rock, nwo. Sure there are guys in the audience, they make there presence known, but I just don't expect him to be that big of a merch seller( I could be a hundred percent wrong), but if the men who attend these event and watch where really that integral in moving merch, iwc favorites like sami zayn, ko, rollins, aj would have surpassed cena and reigns by now. Kids and parents put these two guys above everyone else, numbers don't lie


His Demon merch moved pretty well in NXT, and the MAJORITY of the WWE's audience is ADULT MALES, not kids. The only 3 people that have come close to (if not outselling Cena over a very short period) of time have been Punk, Bryan, and Ambrose, (with D Bryan it was also kids) but it wasn't kids (well some probably did) buying Punk and Ambrose merch.

Plus the Demon merch is going to appeal to the kids as well, IMO.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Well they are pushing him now because they know in a few months time, this guy will be getting crickets because of his lack of character. Just like in NXT, he was the biggest thing coming in but when he started to feud for the title, he came off as the most boring wrestler in that company. And I really do want him to succeed because wwe need stars, and they need them bad. This guy could be a major star, but without a character he won't be going anywhere except the sheamus area. And no one wants to go to the sheamus area. The first step to do this is to actually make the demon thing an actual character. Like a special transformation or personality that he needs to get a job done where he was usually struggling. And the demon phase is when he doesn't act like Finn but as an actual demon.



Architect-Rollins said:


> You think Balor will draw numbers? lol. No one in this era will draw the numbers WWE had in the past. Even Ambrose, the most over guy on the roster hasn't saved the ratings.


Only way to get ratings up is to better the storylines and let the characters shine with little restrictions as possible. IMO, there are doing that, the last few weeks of wwe television has been better than anything the wwe has done in 2 years.


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## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> Only way to get ratings up is to better the storylines and let the characters shine with little restrictions as possible. IMO, there are doing that, the last few weeks of wwe television has been better than anything the wwe has done in 2 years.


I agree. It's not going to happen over night. But the last two weeks have been a step in the right direction.


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## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Also, I think that wwe has made a mistake of having Rollins continue to be a heel. Monday nights need an over face that the fans could look up to and the closest guy they have is actually balor or Sami. These two dont get the most amazing reactions either. Rollins however can get those reactions, he already is. Raw have a lot of over heels that could easily replace Rollins as the top heel of the company. For example, Jericho, Owens, Reigns. These guys can fill up the heel spot while Rollins become the face.


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## Darren Criss (Jul 23, 2015)

Finn is awesome and people love him.

What's the problem?


----------



## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

I think some people might be underestimating Finn. He did well in Japan and NXT, and he's only just arrived in the WWE main roster. He might very well prove a lot people wrong and do well for himself on the main roster too. I know that the kids will love him, and he's good looking so the ladies will like him too. His biggest issue is the older male fans, but I think he can win them over too. I do hope he tries to improve on the mic though, I don't expect him to be at The Rock or Stone Cold's level, but maybe Rollins level at least.


----------



## ManiT (Feb 24, 2015)

Some of you deserve Roman Reigns as champion for ten years.


----------



## reilly (May 9, 2005)

RapShepard said:


> This is an annoying mind set, you shouldn't just be doing things for characters because the guy playing the character has been working hard for X amount of years. Why should that fucking matter? On screen stuff shouldn't be wrote simply to be charitable and honor people's work ethic. The majority of folk in that locker room work hard. You could argue someone like Goldust has been working hard and talented for 30 years why isn't he getting a title shot .
> 
> 
> Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk
> ...


I understand what you mean but has Balor ever been known for talking? I mean he is know for his ring ability and presence and while charisma can be lacking for some I personally find him charismatic.


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

Dolorian said:


> Which is all fine, no problem with that, but it is in moments like these that you would move up someone like Zayn or Owens to the main event. They are both ready and are fresh choices for the title picture, not to mention that both are former NXT champs just like Balor. Look at what they did in SmackDown Live, they went with something new and unpredictable by making Ziggler the #1 contender, someone who has been on the main roster for over a decade and has actually been champion before. There is no need to hot shot a talent that just debuted when you have people on the main roster that are ready for that push to the main event. It is a very sensible move to make to promote the "New Era".
> 
> You could compare him to AJ but AJ main eventing 3 months after his debut isn't really an issue and a far cry from Balor who got inserted into (possibly) the SummerSlam main event right out of the gate on his debut night after beating a top tier talent like Reigns. AJ debuted in a Rumble he didn't win, then got into a program with Jericho where he won a match and then lost to Jericho at Mania 32 and then went after the title which he didn't win. AJ's push is just not on the same league as what they are doing with Balor, and Balor beating Rollins for the title at SummerSlam seems to be what they will be going with all to justify the "New Era".
> 
> Technically speaking everyone that is called up from NXT has been groomed to be on the main roster. I know you mean that they have groomed Balor to be a top level guy, and I agree, but that doesn't negates the fact that you still have to work into transitioning him from NXT to the main roster, getting the audience not only to know him but to truly get behind him and if their bet is on Balor as a long term top level guy, then the best and safest route to not mess things up is to have him work through the roster and get over with the audience in an organic manner. This hot shooting runs the risk of back frying and ending up with Balor just fizzling out in no time, not to mention, that it also ends up devaluing the main roster in the process.


I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. You make some good points, but we're on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as how we think it will turn out. No worries though!


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

The Renegade said:


> I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. You make some good points, but we're on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as how we think it will turn out. No worries though!


Fair enough


----------



## Icarus1312 (Apr 4, 2016)

I don't get this guy yet. I don't get the talk of charisma with him either.
Comes to the ring like a nervous stripper tugging on his jacket before he puts on this weird show on the ring apron... why is his entrance so damn long? lol
Then you see him next to someone else and you realize he is a manlet. The worst is that damn accent of his.

I'm sure he'll be fine though... I just don't get it yet.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

reilly said:


> I understand what you mean but has Balor ever been known for talking? I mean he is know for his ring ability and presence and while charisma can be lacking for some I personally find him charismatic.


I think Balor very clearly has an aura to him. Like Reigns he has that physical charisma that just comes off of him. 

I know he isn't known for his talking. My point is more so by this point in his career he should at least be slightly above average at it, simply because he's done it a lot over the years. To me the WWE shouldn't have to be teaching 10+ year vets like Rollins how to talk, it just makes you look like you were ignoring you're skill set.

That said Rollins is proof you can teach an old dog new tricks so there's that. But I just find it weird when people say Reigns has flaws so he's not ready, but then they campaign for an equally flawed veteran. Like if I'm a promoter if I'm going to have to try and work out kinks it would seem easier to get kinks out of the guy who's less experienced so therefore less stuck in his ways. 

It's like when Cesaro was whining about he speaks the language of wrestling, that's fine but if that's your primary way to get yourself over, but he still needs to talk the language of promo, and of I'm a Booker I'm not trying to hear "well I can speak 5 look languages" that's very dope, but it means shit if you can't cut an extended promo if need be at this point in your career.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Darren Criss said:


> Finn is awesome and people love him.
> 
> What's the problem?


I don't know, why don't you read my post and you'll find out.


----------



## Mad Jester (Feb 26, 2014)

The problem is the wrestlers aren't gradually built up properly on the main roster anymore. I don't have anything against Balor but let's be honest if Triple H and Vince McMahon wasn't into him, he would not be the recipient of the kind of push he's currently a part of. It's more about getting over with the McMahons than it is about getting over with the fans and that's what manifests into animosity aimed at that particular favored wrestler. Roman Reigns was the best example of that. 

Now I'll be honest in that it kind of rubs me the wrong way to see any wrestler skip over the mid card and straight into the main event because it completely devalues the mid card and it takes away the authenticity of the push. I miss the days where winning the Intercontinental Championship meant something because it provided a wrestler a necessary foundation to build on to legitimize them as a vital contender for the main event scene. I think they should've brought up Balor to the main roster the moment he signed with the company just like they did with Styles and then they should have had him work the mid card as either Intercontinental Champion or US Champion during the time Reigns was on top. So that way they would've had a rising baby face on the main roster ready to claim the top spot once the Reigns experiment inevitably subsided. 

Whereas now it comes across as a rush to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves in but they could be digging yet another hole for themselves if they aren't careful and given their track record, they're usually not.


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## very_good (Sep 21, 2009)

he's ugliest guy on the roster. blue meanie should be in his spot


----------



## Boss (Jul 18, 2015)

Making up for lost time. Many people here weren't happy with the fact that John Cena was the solely made star of the past decade, with the exception of the recent Reigns push which was a disaster. And they're right. We need new blood on top. They've got to push someone not from the Shield at some point.


----------



## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

He sells a shit ton of merchandise maybe??? Probably one of the top merch sellers in the company.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

Boss said:


> They've got to push someone not from the Shield at some point.


Sami and Owens are ready for said push.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

krtgolfing said:


> He sells a shit ton of merchandise maybe??? Probably one of the top merch sellers in the company.


I can't comment on this since I tried googling to see if that's the case and didn't get any results (for who the top merchandise sellers right now are). Either way I don't consider this a good reason for hot shotting him into the main event when, as I said before, there are much more suitable options at the moment. 

But, that's just me as far as merchandise is concerned. I can see why others would want to push him this quick if his merchandise was selling well so I'll give you that.


----------



## krtgolfing (Nov 2, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> I can't comment on this since I tried googling to see if that's the case and didn't get any results (for who the top merchandise sellers right now are). Either way I don't consider this a good reason for hot shotting him into the main event when, as I said before, there are much more suitable options at the moment.
> 
> But, that's just me as far as merchandise is concerned. I can see why others would want to push him this quick if his merchandise was selling well so I'll give you that.


I am not a big fan of his. His NXT run has been pretty boring. The 4 or so WWE shows I have been to in the past year or so I have seen New Day with the most merch and Finn with the 2nd most probably. I have a Balor Club shirt which obviously does not make my case. Rumors have Finn beating Seth at Summerslam but I hope they change their mind.


----------



## michael_3165 (Apr 16, 2016)

Alternatively we can have Reigns/Rollins/Ambrose at the top of the card... the joys.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

Maybe wait until after Summerslam and see how his match plays out with Rollins. At least before making the conclusion he shouldn't have a push.


----------



## Dolorian (Oct 5, 2015)

Architect-Rollins said:


> Maybe wait until after Summerslam and see how his match plays out with Rollins. At least before making the conclusion he shouldn't have a push.


But that is like saying that we should wait for his push (and what is meant is the super push he is getting not just any regular push) to conclude before we say wether or not he should be given said push. Rollins is the top guy on RAW, Balor was set for a match with him for the top title on his debut night after beating clean the second top guy (Reigns). After he beats Rollins at SummerSlam what further push is there to do? It is all about keeping the status-quo after that, him being the champ and going on a winning streak that will last for god knows how long. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't that different from how it was on NXT where after he became champ he never lost a match in 292 days until he dropped the title to Samoa Joe.


----------



## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

krtgolfing said:


> He sells a shit ton of merchandise maybe??? Probably one of the top merch sellers in the company.


Who? Balor? That's preposterous.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Dolorian said:


> But that is like saying that we should wait for his push (and what is meant is the super push he is getting not just any regular push) to conclude before we say wether or not he should be given said push. Rollins is the top guy on RAW, Balor was set for a match with him for the top title on his debut night after beating clean the second top guy (Reigns). After he beats Rollins at SummerSlam what further push is there to do? It is all about keeping the status-quo after that, him being the champ and going on a winning streak that will last for god knows how long. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't that different from how it was on NXT where after he became champ he never lost a match in 292 days until he dropped the title to Samoa Joe.


I honestly wouldn't be surprised if that's the route they went at this rate.


----------



## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

Dolorian said:


> But that is like saying that we should wait for his push (and what is meant is the super push he is getting not just any regular push) to conclude before we say wether or not he should be given said push. Rollins is the top guy on RAW, Balor was set for a match with him for the top title on his debut night after beating clean the second top guy (Reigns). After he beats Rollins at SummerSlam what further push is there to do? It is all about keeping the status-quo after that, him being the champ and going on a winning streak that will last for god knows how long. I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't that different from how it was on NXT where after he became champ he never lost a match in 292 days until he dropped the title to Samoa Joe.


I wouldn't mind that, to be honest. A champ should not lose matches, and I think it's been long since we had a strong-booked champion it meant something to beat, rather than get the belt and then start losing matches like Seth Rollins and most midcard champions nowadays.


----------



## Brecke (Aug 6, 2016)

*Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

How is this blatant hypocrisy being overlooked? Balor is even worse than Roman on the mic.


----------



## Achilles (Feb 27, 2014)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

He's better in the ring.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

Most people don’t really trash Roman’s mic skills. They trash what they have him say and the fact they make him talk too much and too long. Honestly it went down hill when they tried to make him a Cena clone and talk longer than 5 minutes.

It’s all about utilizing strengths and weaknesses and they failed in that department with Roman.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

Co-signed. 

Its hilarious really. And so's the hypocrisy of people bitching about Roman but not about Seth who was rushed to the top even quicker and entirely skipped the midcard.


----------



## Provo (Jan 20, 2014)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

Because he's from Japan, you get a free pass.


----------



## Jabez Makaveli (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

Pro wrestling fans hold double standards. It's sad, but that's just the way it is.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*

He's better looking and *THE LOOK* trumps all.


----------



## Iapetus (Jun 5, 2015)

Excuse me who exactly is Balor better looking than?
:nikkilol


----------



## SUPAH STRONG STYLE (Feb 5, 2013)

Iapetus said:


> Excuse me who exactly is Balor better looking than?
> :nikkilol


Ambrose unk2


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

ChicagoFit said:


> Who? Balor? That's preposterous.


Balor is. Even in march 2015 before he got pushed in nxt he was selling well http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nxt/1...edly-impressing-merchandise-sales.html#/enter

In August last year his balor club shirt was second highest seller in whole company after the then cena shirt. I was at nxt London in December and tons of people had balor merch

Vince is pushing balor for a reason and its clearly the merch and ticket sales in nxt


----------



## Iapetus (Jun 5, 2015)

JD said:


> Ambrose unk2


Meh. It depends on what day you catch Dean. Somedays, Dean looks like a super goober but at other times he looks like a total stud.

But I feel like somebody implied Balor is better looking than Reigns or Rollins which is as equally amusing as it is false.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

validreasoning said:


> Balor is. Even in march 2015 before he got pushed in nxt he was selling well http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nxt/1...edly-impressing-merchandise-sales.html#/enter
> 
> In August last year his balor club shirt was second highest seller in whole company after the then cena shirt. I was at nxt London in December and tons of people had balor merch
> 
> Vince is pushing balor for a reason and its clearly the merch and ticket sales in nxt


Do we know what the stats are regarding his merchandise sales right now?


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

AlternateDemise said:


> When did I ever suggest having Balor spend his year losing to guys like Del Rio and Sheamus and then enter the match up against Seth Rollins as the underdog? Again, are any of you guys even reading my post? My point was to build Balor up so that way he's on equal footing with Rollins when they finally face off and it's a true dream match rather than have Balor be in the underdog role like he is right now.


Balor's already been built up. He's beaten the likes of Owens, Joe, Neville, etc on NXT. The fans know who he is.


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

Straw Hat said:


> Where does this nonsense come from? He's had only ONE 4.5 star or more match in his whole career. If you're in that top bracket you'd have hell of a lot more great matches than that.
> 
> Balor struggles to make the top 10 in the WWE, there are easily a few ahead of him in the CWC as well, then there's NJPW, ROH, PWG etc.


4.5 stars? :lmao

Match ratings are subjective. Not fact.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

2K JAY said:


> 4.5 stars? :lmao
> 
> Match ratings are subjective. Not fact.


 One 4.5 star match says it all really.

Meltzers ratings are the only real way to compare matches and wrestlers.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: Trash Roman for Lack of Mic skills but entirely endorse Finn Balor?*



EL SHIV said:


> He's better looking and *THE LOOK* trumps all.


 He's Hunters boy so he will be pushed to the moon. 

Poor KO, Zayn and Cesaro will stand no chance on Raw.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Just like they said Dean wouldn't have a chance, meanwhile he won the title on Raw..


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

ShowStopper said:


> Just like they said Dean wouldn't have a chance, meanwhile he won the title on Raw..


 So you think it's a good idea to push someone more than half the audience doesn't know in place of ready guys like KO, Zayn and Cesaro? In each of those match ups you would get a better match and feud. That promo this past Monday was horrible, I actually lost interest in the match. Compare that trash to Dean-Ziggler on SD, it's Rollins-Balor which is looking second rate now.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Straw Hat said:


> So you think it's a good idea to push someone more than half the audience doesn't know in place of ready guys like KO, Zayn and Cesaro? In each of those match ups you would get a better match and feud.


No, I was responding to your post that guys like KO, Zayn, and Cesaro won't have a chance. Hell, alot of Dean fans said that over the past few years, and look what happened. It's definitely going to happen for KO, just a matter of when, not if. WWE does stuff on their own time, unfortunately.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

2K JAY said:


> Balor's already been built up. He's beaten the likes of Owens, Joe, Neville, etc on NXT. The fans know who he is.


Knowing who someone else and actually being familiar with them are two different things, as I've already pointed out. I've also already pointed out that more than half of the WWE fan base doesn't watch NXT, so no, they don't know who he is. Being built up in NXT doesn't mean much, just Bo Dallas.


----------



## The Reaper (Jul 23, 2016)

Would you want to see Reigns Vs Rollins at Summerslam? I certainly don't I've seen enough shield matches for the championship at least this is refreshing and who else other than Reigns would be a credible opponent for Rollins? At least with Balor beating those 2 it made him look like a legitimate threat to the title against Rollins; it's similar to what they have been doing with Ziggler on Smackdown. Another thing too the guy is 35 years old, do you really want him to chase the title for a year? I prefer him to chase the title now while he's hot with the crowd unless you prefer Reigns chasing Rollins?


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Thomas Milliken said:


> Would you want to see Reigns Vs Rollins at Summerslam? I certainly don't I've seen enough shield matches for the championship at least this is refreshing and who else other than Reigns would be a credible opponent for Rollins? At least with Balor beating those 2 it made him look like a legitimate threat to the title against Rollins; it's similar to what they have been doing with Ziggler on Smackdown. Another thing too the guy is 35 years old, do you really want him to chase the title for a year? I prefer him to chase the title now while he's hot with the crowd unless you prefer Reigns chasing Rollins?


 I'm not a fan of Rollins v Reigns either, if they were going with this new era crap they should have given guys who have busting their ass in the midcard a chance to shine instead of hot shotting guys who get them hard :Tripslick

In no means is Rollins-Balor SS main event worthy, it will be a travesty if it closes. Solely on crowd reactions, it will struggle to get into the top 3 (Orton-Lesnar, Dean-Ziggler and Cena-AJ/Charlotte-Sasha/Balor-Rollins).


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Thomas Milliken said:


> Would you want to see Reigns Vs Rollins at Summerslam? I certainly don't I've seen enough shield matches for the championship at least this is refreshing and who else other than Reigns would be a credible opponent for Rollins? At least with Balor beating those 2 it made him look like a legitimate threat to the title against Rollins; it's similar to what they have been doing with Ziggler on Smackdown. Another thing too the guy is 35 years old, do you really want him to chase the title for a year? I prefer him to chase the title now while he's hot with the crowd unless you prefer Reigns chasing Rollins?


Sami Zayn. As I said before, he's coming off of his win against Kevin Owens, it was a big match and a big win for him at this point in his career. He has a lot of momentum and that win is fresh in our minds. You give him the two wins on that edition of Raw and he easily becomes more credible than Balor, who is considered the underdog right now. I don't think Zayn would be considered the underdog in this match if it were happening, at least not to the extent that Balor is.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

I just find it hilarious that they decided to do this huge push with Bálor when they could've done it with fucking AJ STYLES 7 MONTHS EARLIER :lmao


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Martins said:


> I just find it hilarious that they decided to do this huge push with Bálor when they could've done it with fucking AJ STYLES 7 MONTHS EARLIER :lmao


 I'm a AJ mark, but hot shotting is the worst thing you can do to any wrestler.

It kills the chase so quickly that you never get that huge moment when your favorite finally makes it to the top.

Once you win the title after a month, what else is there to do? You will have killed the first few years of the build in a month and will be left scraping bottom of the barrel booking wise from thereon because you would have killed everything in between. Everything other than a main event feud will feel like a big step down. Sure it works for monster heels, but they never last at the top. A babyface getting rocketed to the top just makes little sense.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Straw Hat said:


> I'm a AJ mark, but hot shotting is the worst thing you can do to any wrestler.
> 
> It kills the chase so quickly that you never get that huge moment when your favorite finally makes it to the top.
> 
> After you win the title after a month, what else is there to do? You will have killed the first few years of the build in a month and will be left scraping bottom of the barrel booking wise from thereon because you would have killed everything inbetween, everything other than a main event feud will feel like a big step down. Sure it works for monster heels, but they never last at the top. A babyface getting rocketed to the top just makes little sense.


I understand your point, I'm not actually defending Bálor's hotshotting (not really shitting on it, either though). 

Still, fuck all that :squirtle I think it'd work if well handled, which means I'm actually just imagining a big what-if scenario at all levels because creative can't write anything interesting worth a shit. With the monster pop AJ got, the way that nobody in the Rumble cared for pretty much anything else and all we got anyway was an extension of that god-awful Reigns/Authority story and the fact that there was absolutely no star power in that Rumble (again, WWE's fault) I'd be *so* down with striking while the iron was red-hot. Worked pretty well for him in NJPW too :draper2

For every time they now treat anyone and their mother as the "HOTTEST FREE AGENT IN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING" it actually made sense with Styles because he *was* the hottest WWE signee in God knows how long. Instead he got a shit feud with Jericho that produced 0 relevant or interesting development and 0 matches that were anything other than "decent".

The chase is good and all, and in no way should hotshotting guys to the main event be anything close to the norm, it should be the very rare exception, but I could think of no-one better than AJ to have been that exception.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Martins said:


> I understand your point, I'm not actually defending Bálor's hotshotting (not really shitting on it, either though).
> 
> Still, fuck all that :squirtle I think it'd work if well handled, which means I'm actually just imagining a big what-if scenario at all levels because creative can't write anything interesting worth a shit. With the monster pop AJ got, the way that nobody in the Rumble cared for pretty much anything else and all we got anyway was an extension of that god-awful Reigns/Authority story and the fact that there was absolutely no star power in that Rumble (again, WWE's fault) I'd be *so* down with striking while the iron was red-hot.
> 
> ...


 For AJ it would have made some sense, but I don't think he was really known well enough to justify it. Had TNA been as big as WCW then it would have made sense and made for a big moment. 

I'm just hoping they keep that title off AJ for another year or two and let it build. I'm willing to wait another year for a huge memorable moment when AJ finally has the biggest prize in the wrestling world on his shoulder. 

Winning it at some B level PPV against Ambrose isn't something that is appealing, despite it looking like the case right now... 

In the perfect world I'd have AJ win the Rumble in 2018 then face off against Bork (would have already lost by then) at WM 34 to win his first ever WWE title. That would genuinely bring a tear to my eye.

I already have it pictured in my head...
AJ goes to hit Bork with the PF only to get caught by Lesnar in midair, Bork goes for the F5, AJ slips out then hits Bork with the pele kick and hits the Styles Clash. 1...2... kick out. AJ can't believe it and is shocked, he then climbs to the top of the ropes and hits the spiral tap and covers for the 3 count.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Straw Hat said:


> For AJ it would have made some sense, but I don't think he was really known well enough to justify it. Had TNA been as big as WCW, then it would have made sense and made for a big moment.
> 
> I'm just hoping they keep that title off AJ for another year or two and let it build, I'm willing to wait another year for a huge memorable moment when AJ finally has the biggest prize in the wrestling world on his shoulder.
> 
> ...


I could definitely get down with this too. Though I'm usually a bit more impatient when I think a guy REALLY deserves the top (this we obviously do agree with though).

Different views, different views


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Martins said:


> I could definitely get down with this too. Though I'm usually a bit more impatient when I think a guy REALLY deserves the top (this we obviously do agree with though).
> 
> Different views, different views


 AJ beating Brock Lesnar in the main event of WM with a Spiral Tap to finally win the biggest prize in the wrestling.

If that isn't a WM, I don't know what is.

This is all fantasy though, the WWE would never let AJ go over Lesnar and they would never give a RR win or WM main event to him.

Achieving that all is more likely for Rollins and Balor, even though the moment will be nowhere as special as they are well liked by management and don't have the same long rich pro wrestling history AJ does (champion around the world, hasn't won a WWE title before and is a TNA guy).


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

He should be getting pushed... away from a microphone

Other than that I have no problem with the guy getting featured right now


----------



## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

validreasoning said:


> Balor is. Even in march 2015 before he got pushed in nxt he was selling well http://www.wrestlingforum.com/nxt/1...edly-impressing-merchandise-sales.html#/enter
> 
> In August last year his balor club shirt was second highest seller in whole company after the then cena shirt. I was at nxt London in December and tons of people had balor merch
> 
> Vince is pushing balor for a reason and its clearly the merch and ticket sales in nxt


It’s also worth noting that an (undisclosed) major retailer had these Superstars selling the most merchandise in 2015:.John Cena,.Daniel Bryan,.Roman Reigns,.Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose.

Source: 
http://www.forbes.com/sites/blakeoe...mbrose-john-cena-returning-more/#403357fe22f4


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

ChicagoFit said:


> It’s also worth noting that an (undisclosed) major retailer had these Superstars selling the most merchandise in 2015:.John Cena,.Daniel Bryan,.Roman Reigns,.Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose.
> 
> Source:
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/blakeoe...mbrose-john-cena-returning-more/#403357fe22f4


Regardless of who was selling the most merch, I still don't think it warrants hot shotting someone into the main event scene this quickly.


----------



## jamal. (Jul 14, 2012)

Balor is like 35 years old. He needs to pushed to the main event ASAP.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

jamal. said:


> Balor is like 35 years old. He needs to pushed to the main event ASAP.


No he doesn't. They have plenty of time to establish him and get him into the main event. You don't hot shot someone into the main event scene right out of the gate because of their age.


----------



## The Nuke (Mar 7, 2016)

He probably shouldn't, but this may just be one of those exceptions to the rule that actually works out in the end.


----------



## 2K JAY (Jan 2, 2011)

Straw Hat said:


> One 4.5 star match says it all really.
> 
> Meltzers ratings are the only real way to compare matches and wrestlers.


How about using your own two eyes? 



AlternateDemise said:


> Knowing who someone else and actually being familiar with them are two different things, as I've already pointed out. I've also already pointed out that more than half of the WWE fan base doesn't watch NXT, so no, they don't know who he is. Being built up in NXT doesn't mean much, just Bo Dallas.


NXT wasn't nearly as popular back then as it is now. Stupid comparison.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

We can just go back a little more than a year ago when it was KO> Cena and then had Balor> KO.
The guy was always groomed to be the star he is today, I like it, run with it. He's accepted by the fans, great look, experience and better than most ME todays


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

By no means is Finn Balor the first person to be hot-shotted like this. Yeah, he is the first to win 2 matches on his debut RAW, getting himself into the main event of the next PPV. But there are certainly people that have appeared in WWE from other promotions, bringing their established name with them.

That is what they're doing with Balor.

People keep saying how "almost no one watches NXT ... the fans don't know who Balor is ...", but you're ignoring the fact that Balor - and Demon Balor - are playable characters in the video game, and have been for a year, plus his merchandise sales have been indicating that he's bigger than NXT for ages.

I don't see any good argument in this thread as to why Balor should have debuted as anything but main event. Simply saying "he shouldn't be" or "he's a vanilla midget" is not an argument. It's just your opinion. And given the RAW crowd's reaction in the last couple of weeks, and their participation in Finn's entrance, I'd say that he's easily over enough ... so yeah, book him as a legitimate main event threat from the start and let him run with it.

His titantron is unchanged from NXT, with the Balor Club stuff. He's clearly going to be aligned with Gallows & Anderson very soon. Heel Balor can 100% carry the new title through to Mania.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

2K JAY said:


> How about using your own two eyes?


He was being sarcastic. Try using your own two eyes next time and maybe you'll figure it out. 



2K JAY said:


> NXT wasn't nearly as popular back then as it is now. Stupid comparison.


That doesn't change the fact that more than half of the WWE viewing audience still doesn't watch the show, so no, it's actually not a stupid comparison. It doesn't matter if it's gotten more popular now, it's still not to the point where being built up there warrants you automatically being a main eventer on the main roster.



greasykid1 said:


> By no means is Finn Balor the first person to be hot-shotted like this. Yeah, he is the first to win 2 matches on his debut RAW, getting himself into the main event of the next PPV. But there are certainly people that have appeared in WWE from other promotions, bringing their established name with them.


And name me three who were successful long term main eventers. Go ahead I'll wait. 



greasykid1 said:


> People keep saying how "almost no one watches NXT ... the fans don't know who Balor is ...", but you're ignoring the fact that Balor - and Demon Balor - are playable characters in the video game, and have been for a year, plus his merchandise sales have been indicating that he's bigger than NXT for ages.


1. No one is saying "almost no one watches NXT". They are saying that a good amount of the fans aren't familiar with him, which is true. 

2. Lol. Oh boy, he was a playable character in a video game. I guess that warrants a main event push on the main roster. 



greasykid1 said:


> I don't see any good argument in this thread as to why Balor should have debuted as anything but main event. Simply saying "he shouldn't be" or "he's a vanilla midget" is not an argument.


Which, again, is something no one is saying. Did you even read any of the posts in the thread? If so that would explain why you haven't seen any good arguments regarding why he shouldn't be in the main event. 



greasykid1 said:


> It's just your opinion. And given the RAW crowd's reaction in the last couple of weeks, and their participation in Finn's entrance, I'd say that he's easily over enough ... so yeah, book him as a legitimate main event threat from the start and let him run with it.


Then you clearly didn't watch last weeks Raw where Finn got no reaction at all to taking out Seth Rollins. He had one week where he got good reactions (and you'd expect that since he's facing Roman Reigns) and he had one week where he had no reaction. That's not "easily over enough" by any stretch of the imagination. 



greasykid1 said:


> His titantron is unchanged from NXT, with the Balor Club stuff. He's clearly going to be aligned with Gallows & Anderson very soon. Heel Balor can 100% carry the new title through to Mania.


That literally means nothing. We don't know how successful the Balor Club thing will be, and not to mention if he's as over as a face as you are claiming, changing him to a heel this early in his run when fans are trying to get to know him is a big mistake.


----------



## henrymark (Apr 11, 2012)

They sure say Demon King a lot.....what's the bet it leads to a feud with Demon Kane attacking him and wanting to prove "WWE is only big enough for one demon" or some bullshit. Only a matter of time I think


----------



## FrostyNova (Aug 9, 2016)

Only way this push could work is by turning him heel at SS, otherwise he has as much character as a an expired milk carton.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Balor is being positioned to take Rollins #2 spot on Raw/WWE*

You can just see it happening, at Summerslam Balor will summon his face paint and beat Rollins clean to become the first ever Universe champion in his very first month in the WWE.

It is clear with all the promotional work, hot shotting, protecting and very percise booking that they are positioning him for the #1 or #2 spot in the company.

What's worse is he is far worse than Reigns. The IWC really deserve this, at least with Roman it was mostly to do with his booking, he has made strides in every other department the last 2 years.


----------



## Vox Machina (May 22, 2014)

*Re: Balor is being positioned to take Rollins #2 spot on Raw/WWE*

Balor isn't winning clean, and I don't think he'll win in general, really... but if he does, it'll be because of The Club and a heel turn. He isn't taking Rollins' place, he's just being pushed to be a star, which he deserves.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: Balor is being positioned to take Rollins #2 spot on Raw/WWE*



Sol Katti said:


> Balor isn't winning clean, and I don't think he'll win in general, really... but if he does, it'll be because of The Club and a heel turn. He isn't taking Rollins' place,* he's just being pushed to be a star, which he deserves*.


 Ahead of guys like KO, Zayn and Cesaro? Hell no.

The 'demon' is definitely going over clean. Rollins is the underdog.


----------



## tommo010 (Jul 15, 2008)

It's simple really Balor is money whether people wanna admit it or not, you see this look?








Kids will love it and they'll wanna dress up like him he already was a top merch seller in NxT and I can see that trend extending to the Main Roster. Then you take into account his entrance



Casuals who have not seen NxT are gonna lap this up and fact he changes it up slightly and only uses it on PPV's will give it longevity. I'm not saying he deserves the push he's getting but I can see why they are doing it and like I said when he beat Roman if he comes out as The Demon at Summerslam he's likely going over, because I don't see them having that Character lose first time out.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

*The Demon King*

Holy shit... DEMON King Balor... So he is the boss of DEMON Kane and sooner or later will be faced against the OLD face of fear to get buried as the NEW face of fear has been 2 times

Now seriously... How can anyone take Balor playing a demon serious?

All he does is having gay bodypaints and that's all. There is absolutely nothing fearsome about him


----------



## CaptainCharisma20 (Jun 9, 2016)

It doesn't even affect his fighting style, just his entrance really pointless and could be really amazing character work and story telling if done right


----------



## Lothario (Jan 17, 2015)

*Re: The Demon King*



CaptainCharisma20 said:


> It doesn't even affect his fighting style, just his entrance really pointless and could be really amazing character work and story telling if done right


This is my only issue with it. The entire "demon" persona feels larger than life but it's ultimately "eh" because not only will he use it at every PPV, but nothing about his offense changes. Why aren't his strikes stiffer? Why doesn't he only use the savage Coup De Gras spot to the back of his opponents head when he's The Demon? Why isn't he noticeably more barbaric and resilient? Why doesn't he go after his opponents' limbs like a shark to blood? It's the simple things that keeps the entire concept and act from reaching the potential it could. 


He should be a lot flashier without the paint and a lot stiffer, technical and brutal _with_ the paint. Casuals and children are gonna eat it up either way, but it'd still be nice if there was a clear difference between regular Balor and Demon Balor.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: The Demon King*

Dude is a poor mans Roman and smarks are too blind to see it. 

But but he worked in Japan, so he must be good...

Stupid idiots fpalm



Lothario said:


> This is my only issue with it. The entire "demon" persona feels larger than life but it's ultimately "eh" because not only will he use it at every PPV, but nothing about his offense changes. Why aren't his strikes stiffer? Why doesn't he only use the savage Coup De Gras spot to the back of his opponents head when he's The Demon? Why isn't he noticeably more barbaric and resilient? Why doesn't he go after his opponents' limbs like a shark to blood? It's the simple things that keeps the entire concept and act from reaching the potential it could.
> 
> 
> He should be a lot flashier without the paint and a lot stiffer, technical and brutal _with_ the paint. Casuals and children are gonna eat it up either way, but it'd still be nice if there was a clear difference between regular Balor and Demon Balor.


 A 5 foot 9 guy who paints himself and does a cringey entrance is not cool in 2016. 

Smarks and kids might like that shit but it certainly isn't larger than life.


----------



## im better than you (Aug 6, 2006)

No way he wins, hell get screwed by a returning big show or something

More money in the chase


----------



## Ronny (Apr 7, 2016)

Why not, we've already done it with my baby boy Roman and the KIDS ARE LOVIN' IT! :vince5


----------



## kariverson (Jan 28, 2014)

*Re: The Demon King*

Absolutely agree. I do not watch NXT and from what I've seen from Balor in the main roster he's being much less than unimpressing.


----------



## SonOfAnarchy91 (Jan 4, 2015)

*Re: The Demon King*

Unless he actually fucking does something with it other than his dumb entrance and body paint he's still gonna be boring as fuck lol.


----------



## TaterTots (Jul 22, 2016)

*Re: Balor is being positioned to take Rollins #2 spot on Raw/WWE*



Straw Hat said:


> Ahead of guys like KO, Zayn and Cesaro? Hell no.


Owens himself has said in a recent interview that Balor is a big deal and that he has no issue with Balor being drafter ahead of him. Also Zayn doesn't belongs in the main event, there is a reason why he was on Superstars this week.


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

I think people over complicate things sometime. Its not in-ring skills, mic work, or charisma that get people pushed. Its how those traits translate into the almighty dollar that is the true, time tested method of getting someone in the main event. Balor can be lacking in areas, but as long as he rakes in the cash, none of that will matter. With his gimmick, he has as good a shot as anyone to stay at the top of the card.


----------



## Lothario (Jan 17, 2015)

*Re: The Demon King*



Straw Hat said:


> A 5 foot 9 guy who paints himself and does a cringey entrance is not cool in 2016.
> 
> Smarks and kids might like that shit but it certainly isn't larger than life.


----------



## TaterTots (Jul 22, 2016)

*Re: The Demon King*



Straw Hat said:


> A 5 foot 9 guy who paints himself and does a cringey entrance is not cool in 2016.


Still much better than a soccer mom haircut.


----------



## JD=JohnDorian (Feb 24, 2012)

I don't mind certain wrestlers getting strong pushes right from the start, it becomes boring when everyone debuts with squash matches. Balor is over with the crowd and his merch makes a lot of money, so it's understandable that he's being put in a main event position.


----------



## 3ku1 (May 23, 2015)

*Finn Balor should be the next super push?*

Atm WWE have put themself in a position. Where they gave Roman Reigns the biggest superpush of all time. Completly ignored the rest of the roster. Including Owens, Wyatt, and Rusev. Who should be all Top Heels in WWE right now. Rollins booking has just been too inconsistenf for me, lost all his big matches since returning, I just cannot take him seriousley anymore unfortuantely. So for Now they are stuck with, Reigns going down the pecking order. And now they got an under utilized Roster. Now It looks like the Reigns Super Push has ended. They are not stuck with who do they push next. Finn Balor seems the most likelist choice on Raw. Ambrose is prob the most over guy in WWE atm, and he is a very popular world champ, and I see him being champ on SD for a while. Not the biggest Finn Fan, but saw his segment on Raw. His mic work has really improoved. He has the right look, he is ok in the ring. I am not his biggest fan, but I Think he is prob the next best bet. WWE really need to stop revolving their product around one guy though. IT never works. Back in the AE Rock and Austin, had HHH, Taker e.t.c. Back in the RGA, Cena had Edge, Taker, Lesnar, Batista. And now Top Heel to support the main eventers should be Wyatt, Rusev, Owens e.t.c.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Finn Balor should be the next super push?*



3ku1 said:


> Atm WWE have put themself in a position. Where they gave Roman Reigns the biggest superpush of all time. Completly ignored the rest of the roster. Including Owens, Wyatt, and Rusev. Who should be all Top Heels in WWE right now. Rollins booking has just been too inconsistenf for me, lost all his big matches since returning, I just cannot take him seriousley anymore unfortuantely. So for Now they are stuck with, Reigns going down the pecking order. And now they got an under utilized Roster. Now It looks like the Reigns Super Push has ended. They are not stuck with who do they push next. Finn Balor seems the most likelist choice on Raw. Ambrose is prob the most over guy in WWE atm, and he is a very popular world champ, and I see him being champ on SD for a while. Not the biggest Finn Fan, but saw his segment on Raw. His mic work has really improoved. He has the right look, he is ok in the ring. I am not his biggest fan, but I Think he is prob the next best bet. WWE really need to stop revolving their product around one guy though. IT never works. Back in the AE Rock and Austin, had HHH, Taker e.t.c. Back in the RGA, Cena had Edge, Taker, Lesnar, Batista. And now Top Heel to support the main eventers should be Wyatt, Rusev, Owens e.t.c.


Well when you want to have a top guy in the company, you SHOULD at the very least try to give off the impression that one person is the undisputed best in the company. But the problem is WWE themselves are trying to decide that, rather than give us multiple guys constantly gunning for the top spot and give it to who ever the fans like the most. I know it's hard to be patient in this day and age with ratings decreasing as the years go by and what not, but I think WWE needs to simply wait it out and try not to force anything. See who the fans truly like and see if they can capitalize on it.


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: Finn Balor should be the next super push?*



AlternateDemise said:


> Well when you want to have a top guy in the company, you SHOULD at the very least try to give off the impression that one person is the undisputed best in the company. But the problem is WWE themselves are trying to decide that, rather than give us multiple guys constantly gunning for the top spot and give it to who ever the fans like the most. I know it's hard to be patient in this day and age with ratings decreasing as the years go by and what not, but I think WWE needs to simply wait it out and try not to force anything. See who the fans truly like and see if they can capitalize on it.


Your post made me just think how fucked up WWE can be: they are not able to plan an episode of Raw a month in advance apparently, yet they decide from the get go if a guy will be their priority or not, without even considering the reaction he'd get. Quite scary


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Finn Balor should be the next super push?*



ste1592 said:


> Your post made me just think how fucked up WWE can be: they are not able to plan an episode of Raw a month in advance apparently, yet they decide from the get go if a guy will be their priority or not, without even considering the reaction he'd get. Quite scary


It's a lot worse than you make it sound. It goes without saying that Daniel Bryan has been WWE's biggest success in regards to building a star since Batista and Cena, and it had nothing to do with their booking. They kept having Bryan beat wrestler after wrestler through out 2013, which is how you should be building up someone as the next big star in the company, but gave up immediately after they thought Bryan wasn't a draw via one disappointing PPV buyrate, rather than try to fix the situation and try to give fans a reason to want to like Bryan more. If WWE themselves aren't comfortable with you, they aren't going to go through the effort they went through with a guy like Reigns to make your position at the top work out for the best. They literally just gave up on him just like that, after having Bryan become the first one to beat the Shield along with beating RVD, Sheamus, Kane, Christian, Randy Orton, and then John Cena on PPV. 

And then to make matters worse, after that, the demand for his push from the fan base grew greater, and WWE ignored it entirely. They only decided to put Bryan in a match with Triple H when they had no opponent for him, and then they finally came to their senses and realized a Batista/Orton match won't work. Bryan became a ratings draw for WWE and a legitimate star in the company, and it was almost entirely by accident. That's a big problem. 

This recent Finn Balor mega push out of nowhere just adds more to that concern. It's become apparent to me that WWE has completely abandoned the ideology of having an organic push and instead want to go back to the days where they decide who is going to be the main eventer, and they're hoping fans go along for the ride. We always say that Vince and everyone else is out of touch, and most of the time we act like we mean it even though we're simply speaking from an emotional perspective. But with all of this in mind, and when thinking it through, I think they're right. I think Vince truly is out of touch, and has been for a long time now.


----------



## .MCH (Dec 1, 2008)

> Imagine how much more exciting the idea of this match would be if it was next year?


This match would never be exciting, ever. 

Maybe as a midcard feud for the Battleground PPV or something.


----------



## ste1592 (Dec 20, 2014)

*Re: Finn Balor should be the next super push?*



AlternateDemise said:


> It's a lot worse than you make it sound. It goes without saying that Daniel Bryan has been WWE's biggest success in regards to building a star since Batista and Cena, and it had nothing to do with their booking. They kept having Bryan beat wrestler after wrestler through out 2013, which is how you should be building up someone as the next big star in the company, but gave up immediately after they thought Bryan wasn't a draw via one disappointing PPV buyrate, rather than try to fix the situation and try to give fans a reason to want to like Bryan more. If WWE themselves aren't comfortable with you, they aren't going to go through the effort they went through with a guy like Reigns to make your position at the top work out for the best. They literally just gave up on him just like that, after having Bryan become the first one to beat the Shield along with beating RVD, Sheamus, Kane, Christian, Randy Orton, and then John Cena on PPV.
> 
> And then to make matters worse, after that, the demand for his push from the fan base grew greater, and WWE ignored it entirely. They only decided to put Bryan in a match with Triple H when they had no opponent for him, and then they finally came to their senses and realized a Batista/Orton match won't work. Bryan became a ratings draw for WWE and a legitimate star in the company, and it was almost entirely by accident. That's a big problem.
> 
> This recent Finn Balor mega push out of nowhere just adds more to that concern. It's become apparent to me that WWE has completely abandoned the ideology of having an organic push and instead want to go back to the days where they decide who is going to be the main eventer, and they're hoping fans go along for the ride. We always say that Vince and everyone else is out of touch, and most of the time we act like we mean it even though we're simply speaking from an emotional perspective. But with all of this in mind, and when thinking it through, I think they're right. I think Vince truly is out of touch, and has been for a long time now.


You're even generous to say that Bryan became a star _almost_ entirely by accident, in my opinion. They should take no credit for that, and the fact that they try to recreate Bryan's situation with other guys it's what makes me think they really are idiots.

On Balor's push, despite my slight disagreement on the evaluation of his qualities, I can't really disagree, because the simple fact that they plan who should be face of the company rather than give the ball to the one performing better it's nonsensical.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

*Re: Finn Balor should be the next super push?*



ste1592 said:


> You're even generous to say that Bryan became a star _almost_ entirely by accident, in my opinion. They should take no credit for that, and the fact that they try to recreate Bryan's situation with other guys it's what makes me think they really are idiots.


Here's why I give WWE SOME credit for Bryan's push.

For starters, the infamous Sheamus/Bryan match at Wrestlemania 28 never would have happened in the first place if WWE hadn't taken the chance on Bryan and gave him the WHC. That set him up to be in that situation, even if WWE got unexpected results. If it was just a regular match with no title on the line or anything, Bryan's rise to stardom wouldn't have started in the fashion it did. Then a few months after the fact, they made a smart move in my opinion in having Bryan say "no" when ever fans chanted yes at him. In fact it was genius. They knew fans would just want to chant it more. In Pro Wrestling, as I pointed out before in regards to fans becoming more familiar with someone or at least having a reason to, the whole yes chant fiasco slowly building into something big gave fans more of a reason to pay attention to Bryan. So with this in mind, what does WWE do next? They put him in a comedic tag team with Kane. Again, brilliant (and no I'm not joking). That allowed Bryan to showcase just how entertaining he can be outside the ring. It showed he was capable of having a personality. This all helped in the long run when he turned face again. When he and Kane turned face, Bryan really started to take off. Again, WWE saw this. They had Bryan become the first man to pin/submit the Shield in a six man tag match. They had him go through a series of matches with Orton, and had Orton beat him once. Orton's win however wasn't a definite one (I believe it was via count out, unless I'm thinking of the infamous early stoppage match that made Bryan blow a casket backstage). In the end of their series (I believe they had three matches), Bryan ended up being the only one to get a definite win. And he looked incredible in that win. Again, brilliant on WWE's part. And then they made it seem like Bryan could beat anyone. In the build up to the all star MITB match and after, Bryan ran through everyone. His old partner Kane, Christian, Sheamus. They made Bryan and Punk look like the two best guys in the ring in that all star MITB match. And then they had Bryan be the one to beat Cena so Cena could have surgery, only to have Orton turn heel and turn into the top guy in the company while Bryan was the one the top had to keep held down. 

Now here's the thing. WWE got scared about the idea of keeping Bryan in the main event after seeing the Summerslam buy rates and took away his push. And that for me takes away from a lot of this because it gives me the feeling that, for some strange reason, Vince might have been expecting something else to happen with all of these things that they did. What it was I honestly have no clue. But I just can't buy into the idea that they did all of this for him with those expectations and plans in mind just to throw it all away due to disappointing buyrates for one PPV. That's not how Vince is. If he wants someone to main event, he won't give up on someone immediately because of one PPV. So I think at some point(s) mentioned above, what I think WWE had in mind is different from what they actually had in mind. Maybe having Bryan be the one to beat Cena was a last minute decision. Maybe they just wanted to further embarrass Bryan and try to ultimately bury him by having him play the whole goat-faced gimmick in team Hell No. Maybe they truly thought they could stop the yes chants by having Bryan say no. Hell, we're talking about the company that thought having Bryan tell the fans to stop chanting for him and chant for Reigns would actually work. But who knows. I just can't buy into this idea that WWE gave up that quickly on someone after doing that much for them, so while some of what I mentioned above might have been intentional on WWE's part (hence why they deserve some credit in Bryan's rise to stardom), I feel like a lot of the other things weren't and that they were wanting to go a different direction in that regard.


----------



## Uptown King (Jul 11, 2016)

Balor's push to me is awesome, its something new and fresh, plus we get to see a possible MOTN and MOTY type fight at SS. And if Balor somehow walks out champion that be even cooler, he could have a good run with the belt.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

Prepare for the next boring promo... Or a pretaped "demon" one no one actually shoudlt ake seriously.

Even Kane with 90 years would be more scary as someone as Finn Balor with body painting and shitty entrance


----------



## American_Nightmare (Feb 17, 2016)

"Finn Bálor shouldn't be getting pushed like this"

And The Undertaker shouldn't still wrestle










but that's probably gonna happen too.


----------



## ST1TCH (Aug 6, 2014)

Raw has almost no babyfaces, and the only two realistic opponents for Rollins at Summerslam were Finn Balor and Roman Reigns.

If you think going with Reigns vs. Rollins at Summerslam would have been the better option, your opinion is bad and you should feel bad about it.


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

**Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

So Finn Balor came into NXT with a wave of hype and his lack of talent and overall boring wrestling made unbiased people realise how he really needed to improve his talent - it wasn't up to scratch considering his 15 years wrestling when compared to guys like Owens and Zayn, much better in less time.

Balor is given every opportunity and he puts on the most average NXT title matches since Bo Dallas was champion (the worst run of the TakeOver era).
Then he gets the call up after this...

...Randomly goes over US Champion Rusev and Golden Boy Reigns...

...And is given a world title shot at a PPV, a push similar to Brock Lesnar, who is an absolute freak of nature.

And he shits the bed _again_. The match was overshadowed by the crowd chanting their disdain for the championship. It was one of the few tailored main event matches to not impress easy-to-impress marks enough for a "this is awesome" chant. It was plodding, it was absolutely horrendous for a main event match.

I hope Balor goes down as the most overpushed, untalented hack in history, and this match and championship go down with him the same.


P.S. Whomever keeps editing the title of the thread either delete this and make your own or actually tell me why it needs to be any different according to the rules 
I'm trying to meet a nice middle-ground here.


----------



## Mra22 (May 29, 2014)

*This rocket push of Balor sucks*

C'mon the guy gets called up and is already the champion? What does this guy even bring to the table? His moves are meh, his finisher is meh, his mic work sucks and he has a cringeworthy alter ego.....This rocket push is ridiculous....


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

*re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

I want the same people complaining about Roman Reigns to complain about Finn Bálor

The fact is: this push is even worse


----------



## Spike (Jun 21, 2011)

*re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

Bullshit. Solid match, and about time he had such a push.


----------



## Vox Machina (May 22, 2014)

*re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

Eh... I disagree somewhat. Don't get me wrong, Balor shouldn't have won, especially not clean. But the match was "overshadowed" for the first five minutes because of that new title, not the entire match. It was a pretty good match for the most part.


----------



## Super Hetero Male (Jul 1, 2016)

*re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

but japan tho =\


----------



## Dobbizzle (Dec 27, 2015)

*re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

Nah, Balor's money. Gotta love the bitter smarks though.


----------



## Dobbizzle (Dec 27, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

I love it actually, big fan.


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

To the people that complain about Roman Reigns: Do the same to Finn Bálor, because this push is more forced and worse.


----------



## Jabez Makaveli (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

Marks: "But he's a great wrestler". Smh


----------



## Mra22 (May 29, 2014)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*



NakNak said:


> To the people that complain about Roman Reigns: Do the same to Finn Bálor, because this push is more forced and worse.


I agree, it's actually much worse and his superman comeback is worse than Cena's


----------



## Super Hetero Male (Jul 1, 2016)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

i don't think it's wrong for them to give him a rocket push if they think they see money in him, but it is interesting to see some people completely sit on their hands about it after bitching for the last 2 years about roman reigns getting shoved down our throats.


----------



## Achilles (Feb 27, 2014)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

He's already 35, and he entertains me. May his reign be eternal! :bosstrips


----------



## Arkham258 (Jan 30, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*



NakNak said:


> To the people that complain about Roman Reigns: Do the same to Finn Bálor, because this push is more forced and worse.


He IS Roman Reigns, if Reigns had "indie" cred


----------



## Buster Baxter (Mar 30, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

Coming for someone who actually likes Balor, I'm stunned that he has beaten both Roman and Seth. That two thirds of the shield and the two top guys on Raw. Where does he go from here? Lesnar? Peaking early is not a good thing, but Raw is scrambling for new main event guys so I'll see where it goes. It's just confusing. Maybe he will turn heel.


----------



## Raven'sCrucifix (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*

Rollins didn't need it, Rollins came out looking strong, and these two can put on great matches with one another, with how Raw looks at the moment, their clearly going to be building things between Rollins and Balor, it'll pay off in the long run.

The only real issues is how Balor can maintain, he's starting at the very top, and while it's a big moment indeed, he's going to have to put in a lot of work and WWE is going to have to tread lightly to make it work.

Besides, with how Seth was promoting this match all through, and building himself, Balor losing tonight would have made him look like a bitch. Great match between two young talents, the future is already bright for Rollins, it'll remain to be seen if Balor can hold his own, or if he'll just be a flash in the pan, the pressure is on.


----------



## TheGeneticFreak (Feb 27, 2016)

*re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

I can't believe I'm saying this but I would rather have Roman be the champ.


----------



## Dobbizzle (Dec 27, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*



A-Will said:


> Marks: "But he's a great wrestler". Smh


Better to be a mark and actually enjoy the show than a bitter smark actually watching a show they hate. That's actually just pretty tragic.


----------



## Hencheman_21 (Apr 11, 2014)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

Before signing with WWE;

Finn - 14 years experience
Roman - 0 years experience

Yea the forced pushes are the same.


----------



## Raven'sCrucifix (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**

Another thing to keep in mind is that this title is going to be created as 'it's own thing' it has no history behind it, essentially making a clean slate and allowing it to work based on the stars that will carry it. If this were the WWE Championship, I'd be a bit more questionable, it has a ton of history behind it.

With a clean slate, as long as the person you're putting the belt on is good (and Balor is good in the ring), is book correctly, isn't booked to strong, has someone strong to work with (Rollins), it's very easy to work with. The match itself while it probably didn't live up to the hype has plenty of time to do so, and I'm certain we'll be seeing a Balor vs. Rollins II where they'll do that much better.

It's a remains to be seen kind of thing, but this isn't the WWE title, it doesn't have a history, let's see how that history goes going forward. And yes, the belt does look ugly as fuck.


----------



## Jabez Makaveli (Oct 15, 2015)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*



Dobbizzle said:


> Better to be a mark and actually enjoy the show than a bitter smark actually watching a show they hate. That's actually just pretty tragic.


It's a difference between hating a show and not like a specific match on it. Ain't nothing tragic about having a mind of your own.


----------



## FROSTY (Jan 22, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

*Finn Balor Suuucks! Finn Balor Suuucks! Finn Balor Suuucks! Finn Balor Suuucks! (You gotta sing it set to John Cena's music) :bryanlol*


----------



## BlackWidow4Life (May 21, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

Finn deserves all of this, whats with y'all?


----------



## Ryan93 (Aug 8, 2009)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

I guess Vince really is desperate to create some sort of Cena/Austin/Hogan FOTC character before he dies. He spent 2 years trying to make Reigns that guy, Reigns fucked up and broke the old man's heart, now he's gotta settle for being Randy Orton 2.0, now it's Balor's turn for the rocket push..


----------



## Oxidamus (Jan 30, 2012)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**



Hencheman_21 said:


> Before signing with WWE;
> 
> Finn - 14 years experience
> Roman - 0 years experience
> ...


14 years means nothing when you're still shit.
Actually if anything it means you're worse.


----------



## Hodan (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

I wouldn't have cared about Finn winning. I cared about the fact that the awesome match I was promised did not happen. The match between the two of the "best wrestlers" was disappointing to say the least which makes me resent this guy.


----------



## Demolition119 (Mar 1, 2011)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

Is the WWE retarded? Nothing turns off the current WWE fanbase then A rocket stuck up the ass push. Are they trying to turn everyone that isn't a Balor mark against this guy within 3 months. He has beaten Rollins and Roman CLEAN. Where the hell does he go from here but downhill? They blew there load too early and peaked this guy way too soon.


----------



## Brandough (Mar 16, 2014)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

It took Reigns THREE years to win the world title and he won it on a random episode of Raw but Balor wins it a month into his debut..but Reigns is overpushed :booklel


----------



## Raven'sCrucifix (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

Not to be THAT guy, aw fuck it, I will be.

Just throwing this out there, but with the recent suspensions, what if Rollins was one of them? Have my doubts, but there is a chance.


----------



## spaghettimunsta V2 (Aug 22, 2016)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


all hail the Demon Prince and your NEW UNIVERSAL CHAMPION

*raisesarms*


----------



## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

Look, you can debate whether Bálor should have won the title or not, but he's not objectively the most undeserving push. WWE took a chance with Bálor. He's done well for himself so far elsewhere, and he's not some newbie upstart, he's a 16 year veteran, who's 35 years old. If WWE is going to pull the trigger with him, now is the time. 

Besides, WWE needs to make new main eventers. They only have a few on the Raw brand as we speak.


----------



## THANOS (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

The only differences between Reigns and Balor are height and crowd acceptance. Otherwise they're basically equal in talent. Make of that what you will.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Raven'sCrucifix said:


> Not to be THAT guy, aw fuck it, I will be.
> 
> Just throwing this out there, but with the recent suspensions, what if Rollins was one of them? Have my doubts, but there is a chance.


I don't think he's one. When he was doing ESPN he talked very highly of the Wellness Policy, and said he was very aware about what he takes. I don't think he would've been so positive about it had he been popped for breaking the policy. 

I think this situation is pretty black and white. WWE wanted Balor to win this one. I don't think Seth has a problem putting Balor over either. Seth doesn't need the title as much right now. He's well established. I actually think he's been booked far better without it. This could be the start of an eventual face turn for Rollins. He'll win the title back again. But right now...he doesn't need it.


----------



## RetepAdam. (May 13, 2007)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**



NakNak said:


> I want the same people complaining about Roman Reigns to complain about Finn Bálor
> 
> The fact is: this push is even worse


Except Balor's been pushed continuously for two straight years and is still actually over, so :draper2


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*



NakNak said:


> To the people that complain about Roman Reigns: Do the same to Finn Bálor, because this push is more forced and worse.


 Smarks are hypocrites bruh.


----------



## RJTM (Aug 13, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

A hard working long-time veteran with a great look and marketable gimmick somehow doesn't deserve this?

I'm just happy that someone new has the title. Got beyond bored of Seth's wooden acting.



Hodan said:


> I wouldn't have cared about Finn winning. I cared about the fact that the awesome match I was promised did not happen. The match between the two of the "best wrestlers" was disappointing to say the least which makes me resent this guy.


Rollins was there too, why hate on one guy?


----------



## Raven'sCrucifix (Aug 18, 2016)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Architect-Rollins said:


> I don't think he's one. When he was doing ESPN he talked very highly of the Wellness Policy, and said he was very aware about what he takes. I don't think he would've been so positive about it had he been popped for breaking the policy.
> 
> I think this situation is pretty black and white. WWE wanted Balor to win this one. I don't think Seth has a problem putting Balor over either. Seth doesn't need the title as much right now. He's well established. I actually think he's been booked far better without it. This could be the start of an eventual face turn for Rollins. He'll win the title back again. But right now...he doesn't need it.


Personally, yeah, I think he has a good enough head on his shoulders about this kind of stuff, I was just more surprised nobody brought up the possibility. I do believe they put the reigns in Balor's hands willingly, it works out perfectly in the long run because Balor and Seth work well together and Raw needs something big until they start moving guys up.


----------



## ChicagoFit (Apr 24, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**

His entrances are:
- The Fonz (a character from a 1970's TV show) 
- A bad high school performance of cirque du soleil with a Showgirls theme. 

He's slightly taller than Bruno Mars. 

He has Helen Keller-like mic skills. 

And he's the guy that's champion. 

This is beyond embarrassing, you couldn't make this up.


----------



## Born of Osiris (Oct 29, 2013)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Brandough said:


> It took Reigns THREE years to win the world title and he won it on a random episode of Raw but Balor wins it a month into his debut..but Reigns is overpushed :booklel


Wow its almost as if both are overpushed :booklel

Fuck Balor if he still can't become interesting with the title. Him and Roman are the worse "new" main eventers I've seen since Khali.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Hodan said:


> I wouldn't have cared about Finn winning. I cared about the fact that the awesome match I was promised did not happen. The match between the two of the "best wrestlers" was disappointing to say the least which makes me resent this guy.


 This was the match smarks were talking up as a dream match between two of the best. It was very quite average. Maybe they were holding back? It might just be me, I'm not really a fan of Finn's in ring work.


----------



## Hodan (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



RJTM said:


> Rollins was there too, why hate on one guy?


I am actually hating on both. I wanted a better match from Seth Rollis and Finn. I have been told their match would be amazing ever since it was announced. Lots of hype for nothing.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Hodan said:


> I am actually hating on both. I wanted a better match from Seth Rollis and Finn. I have been told their match would be amazing ever since it was announced. Lots of hype for nothing.


 Best not to listen to Balor and Rollins marks.


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

All I know is, the guy was having great matches and cutting sick promos in Japan.

And now apparently he sucks and the only difference is that he's in WWE. What does that tell you?


----------



## Hodan (Jul 6, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Straw Hat said:


> Best not to listen to Balor and Rollins marks.


It wasn't smarks only. It from from a lot o fans. Every podcast, every reviewer, everyone told me this would be great match even though the build-up sucked and I came into hoping for more than what I got. This SS really sucked.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

People are going to do mental gymnastics for this Finn Balor force (not a push, this is a force) and excuse it because it's Balor but won't give Roman Reigns the same credence when even though he was forced as well, his early run in the WWE was gradual to where he was getting over until WWE FORCED Reigns to become essentially Cena 2.0

The Balor force will get old very quick anyways so I don't expect this ass kissing to last. Not crying for a Rollins title reign either but compared to Balor, Rollins should have one if he is your go to guy after Reigns as the face of the company.


----------



## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

3MB4Life said:


> All I know is, the guy was having great matches and cutting sick promos in Japan.
> 
> And now apparently he sucks and the only difference is that he's in WWE. What does that tell you?


This should be pinned for the idiots that solely blame the performers for the current failure of the product.


----------



## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

3MB4Life said:


> All I know is, the guy was having great matches and cutting sick promos in Japan.
> 
> And now apparently he sucks and the only difference is that he's in WWE. What does that tell you?


 You can't blame booking for the average match, he was booked at the same level as Rollins and still wasn't able to deliver a great match.


----------



## AoEC_ (Jul 17, 2016)

Huge responsibility on Balor's shoulders now. If Balor had to be pushed immediately into the title spot (not just the title scene), they should have gone with the safe option of Reigns Vs Rollins at SS with Rollins winning. Balor could have got 2 months full of trying to establish himself on the main roster, getting fully acquainted with the larger worldwide main roster audience, finding his niche and then going for the title. It would be miraculous if Balor comes out of this reign unscathed, this whole scenario looks like a straight up gear 5 speeding towards the canyon.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

Hey, if it were up to me, I'd have sent Bálor off to LU already so he could be booked worth a shit :draper2

This whole situation is whatever. I still find it laughable that he got such a huge push in the same year AJ fucking Styles entered the company, but this is WWE for ya. I like Bálor, but he will be no more or no less entertaining than anybody else because everybody's portrayed the same with no chance to show squat. Some don't care, and some are just shit. That's what WWE is now. Get on with the New Era.


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

Straw Hat said:


> You can't blame booking for the average match, he was booked at the same level as Rollins and still wasn't able to deliver a great match.


You can blame overly scripted matches though. Finn always seems like one of those people who does his best work when you let him do what he wants. In New Japan, they let him say whatever he wanted and call most of what happened in his matches in the ring and he was entertaining as fuck. And I'm 99% sure he isn't allowed to do that in WWE.

I've seen Okada/Devitt, I've seen Tana/Devitt, I've seen Devitt/Sabre Jr, I've seen Marufuji/Devitt and I've seen MCMG vs Apollo 55, Devitt can and has had great matches in the past. He just doesn't seem to be able to do it in WWE. Why do you think that might be? Did he suddenly forget how after he signed his WWE contract or might it be something else?


----------



## NakNak (Feb 9, 2015)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**



RetepAdam. said:


> Except Balor's been pushed continuously for two straight years and is still actually over, so :draper2


NXT doesn't count :draper2
And, IDK, his title reign on NXT was...dull
No one from NXT has been pushed to the moon as fast as Finn Bálor. 
I will give you this: He is still over with the crowd...but for how long?


----------



## I am the Storm (Apr 11, 2014)

Gotta say it - I'd much rather have Roman Reigns in this position than Balor. At least Reigns looks and carries himself like a wrestling heavyweight champion. He can also put on good matches. His promos? I hated them, I can't lie. I hate Balor's promos, too. As far as everything else between the two I'd take Reigns without question.

Finn Balor isn't good enough in any one area to cover up for his many weaknesses. Ring work? Decent at best. The similarly sized Neville would work circles around Balor. Promos? Balor is awful at them. He's tiny; no bigger than the average-sized Wal-Mart cashier. No charisma. No gimmick. That's the first ever Universal Champion? But his super push is okay, right? After all that's what most of you hated about Reigns - his super push. Well, Reigns' super push was nowhere near as super as Balor's. How long did it take for Balor to reach the mountaintop once he got the call up to the main roster? A month? Reigns? A few years. Who got the super push...? But we're supposed to frown on that, right?

And now poor US Champ Rusev has felt the brunt more than anyone because he's been the sacrificial lamb to Reigns. Thanks, Balor lovers.


----------



## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

I wouldn't disagree necessarily, I'm just surprised Finn got where he is now with Anderson & Gallows helping him turn.


----------



## Martins (May 4, 2011)

3MB4Life said:


> You can blame overly scripted matches though. Finn always seems like one of those people who does his best work when you let him do what he wants. In New Japan, they let him say whatever he wanted and call most of what happened in his matches in the ring and he was entertaining as fuck. And I'm 99% sure he isn't allowed to do that in WWE.
> 
> I've seen Okada/Devitt, I've seen Tana/Devitt, I've seen Devitt/Sabre Jr, I've seen Marufuji/Devitt and I've seen MCMG vs Apollo 55, Devitt can and has had great matches in the past. He just doesn't seem to be able to do it in WWE. Why do you think that might be? Did he suddenly forget how after he signed his WWE contract or might it be something else?


DOESN'T MATTER

THIS IS THE BIG LEAGUES~

I don't care much for Devitt becoming Champion because I know exactly what his reign is gonna be like if it gets some time: no memorable moments and a few ***1/4-***1/2 matches. It's what happens with everyone in the WWE now, no matter how good they are.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

He'll either sink or swim as Champion on the main roster. Let's see where he goes from here before completely writing him off.


----------



## RetepAdam. (May 13, 2007)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor Sucks Thread Since You Guys Can't Help Yourselves**



NakNak said:


> NXT doesn't count :draper2
> And, IDK, his title reign on NXT was...dull
> No one from NXT has been pushed to the moon as fast as Finn Bálor.
> I will give you this: He is still over with the crowd...but for how long?


I mean, NXT _should_ count since the portion of the WWE crowd most likely to turn on a babyface has a heavy overlap with NXT's viewers.

But I agree that he got stale (yet remained quite over) in the second half of his run. I've been hoping for a heel turn for a while. Doubt we get it anytime between now and WrestleMania, but maybe next summer once the landscape has shifted a bit. In any event, RAW badly needed a top babyface that fans actually like, so this is probably a good short-term solution at worst.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Other guys should clearly be getting pushed harder than him (*cough*Bray and Owens*cough*), but whatever. He was going to get the world title at some point, no matter what anyone thought, so you might as well just get it over with. If nothing else, I'm glad somebody has overtaken Brock's terrible ass for the fastest to ever get the title after debuting.


----------



## PaulHeyamnGuy (Feb 2, 2015)

The hardcore fanbase accept Finn Balor's mega-push because he0s the one that started the biggest modern stable in pro-wrestling, the guy has proven himself with the hardcore fanbase so that's why you won't be seeing too many posts complaining about Bálor's push, because he is a big name in the pro-wrestling circles and among internet fans, and that's all there is to it.

Bálor is a lackluster performer just ilike Roman Reigns, pushed solely on marketability and looks, because let's be honest, Devitt in NJPW did wrestle pretty good, but they brought him over because this is the man that came out with the Bullet Club, this is a guy that knows how to market shit, they have shitload of amazing wrestlers, but not many of those amazing wrestlers know how to merchandise themselves. Bálor/Devitt on the other hand knows how to get himself over with merchandise, don't get me wrong, Bálor is a good in-ring performer, I'm not taking that away, but his merchandising skills and overall presentation are what really put him on the spot he is now, in my opinion. This is the WWE guys, moving merchandise is what guarantees pushes, it is what it is.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

*Re: This rocket push of Balor sucks*



Natis Cole said:


> Coming for someone who actually likes Balor, I'm stunned that he has beaten both Roman and Seth. That two thirds of the shield and the two top guys on Raw. Where does he go from here? Lesnar? Peaking early is not a good thing, but Raw is scrambling for new main event guys so I'll see where it goes. It's just confusing. Maybe he will turn heel.


As long as they never let him fall into a true midcarder he'll be fine. Brock and Angle both started off with a similar hot streak their first year. He'll have to come back down to Earth eventually, but as long as he doesn't become a loss sponge he'll be okay.

Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk


----------



## Godway (May 21, 2013)

For like a next big face of the company type, the reaction to this title win was pretty bad. They just aren't good at making stars anymore. Nothing about Balor has been interesting since his debut, he has weak chemistry with Rollins, it's all very disappointing stuff.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

3MB4Life said:


> All I know is, the guy was having great matches and cutting sick promos in Japan.
> 
> And now apparently he sucks and the only difference is that he's in WWE. What does that tell you?


That he's not as versatile or good as his fans claim if he's not in his comfort zone of NJPW :draper2


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Godway said:


> For like a next big face of the company type, the reaction to this title win was pretty bad. They just aren't good at making stars anymore. Nothing about Balor has been interesting since his debut, he has weak chemistry with Rollins, it's all very disappointing stuff.


I agree with him not being interesting, but in this case, I really think the show was just too long. They put it on so late, and the crowd had been sitting there at that point for 6 or 7 hours.


----------



## Ryan93 (Aug 8, 2009)

Relax guys, I doubt Balor has a long run as champ anyways. Even if he does, as tonight proved, his reign as champ will be very similar to Punk's in 2011, with Reigns playing the part of Cena. The babyface champ that is treated like the number two babyface on the show.


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

The match itself was fine but I wanted a turn from one of the guys to set things in motion going forward. As it stands, we dodged the Reigns train for a similar character with face paint. 

I'd be a lot higher on all of this if Finn could talk. A possible heel turn would have given them something to work with. Not sure what the draw is now.


----------



## Cesaro Section (Sep 7, 2014)

But I though WF liked every guy who has an Indepent background no matter what?!?! /s

Overbooked is overbooked. I like Balor alot as a talent but I also can't help but feel this is too much too fast. Peaking early is a very serious threat at this point, he basically just skipped the entire "Chase" aspect of his WWE career, and immediatley pretty much begins his main roster career as the top guy. That early journey is a VERY critical part to rush over.


----------



## OwensWWE6 (Aug 18, 2016)

I wish Rollins won the title, I think the Balor push should have waited longer.


----------



## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> That he's not as versatile or good as his fans claim if he's not in his comfort zone of NJPW :draper2


WWE don't allow him to flourish and purposefully put him in an environment where he can't thrive. Which begs the question why they signed him in the first place.

Some people can't work off a script, whether that be in the ring or on the mic. It doesn't mean he's bad, he just works differently. What you just said is like saying that it's a left-handed person's fault that they can't write with their right hand. Sometimes forcing people to do things a certain way isn't the best way to do things, some people need a little bit more freedom and that's fine.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

3MB4Life said:


> WWE don't allow him to flourish and purposefully put him in an environment where he can't thrive. Which begs the question why they signed him in the first place.
> 
> Some people can't work off a script, whether that be in the ring or on the mic. It doesn't mean he's bad, he just works differently. What you just said is like saying that it's a left-handed person's fault that they can't write with their right hand. Sometimes forcing people to do things a certain way isn't the best way to do things, some people need a little bit more freedom and that's fine.


No, it's more like saying Balor might be the wrestling equivalent of a system player. In sports some players are good no matter where they go and some are only good in a certain system. Being a system player isn't necessarily bad, but they aren't as respected as a player who's good anywhere. 

If you're saying Balor is really only good/great if he has free reign then I say he's a system player. It doesn't mean he's bad (which he isn't and hasn't been) but it does make him seem less valuable than say Styles who has proven he can have good-great matches with a variety of opponents and organizations even one with the same "handcuffs" as Balor.

Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk


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## 3MB4Life (Apr 3, 2014)

RapShepard said:


> No, it's more like saying Balor might be the wrestling equivalent of a system player. In sports some players are good no matter where they go and some are only good in a certain system. Being a system player isn't necessarily bad, but they aren't as respected as a player who's good anywhere.
> 
> If you're saying Balor is really only good/great if he has free reign then I say he's a system player. It doesn't mean he's bad (which he isn't and hasn't been) but it does make him seem less valuable than say Styles who has proven he can have good-great matches with a variety of opponents and organizations even one with the same "handcuffs" as Balor.
> 
> Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk


Yeah, that's a better analogy. But again, why would you then play one of those "system players" out of position? Wouldn't you do your best to get the most potential out of them? In football/soccer, you wouldn't take a striker and make him play in goals then complain that he isn't good in goals?


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

*Re: *Official Finn Balor is Objectively the Most Undeserving Pushed Guy in WWE Thread**



Brandough said:


> It took Reigns THREE years to win the world title and he won it on a random episode of Raw but Balor wins it a month into his debut..but Reigns is overpushed :booklel


Do you know something called NXT?

Balor signed 2 years ago.


----------



## Godway (May 21, 2013)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I agree with him not being interesting, but in this case, I really think the show was just too long. They put it on so late, and the crowd had been sitting there at that point for 6 or 7 hours.


Regardless, you'd expect it to have that AJ/Cena type reaction if he truly was a STAR. If he beat Cena, it of had that type of huge and special reaction. It's the sad state of this company, the only guy you can beat that means anything is Cena. Rollins never got any real heat on this feud (crowd was more into him than Balor at times). 

But yeah, the show was doomed to fail no matter what for being absurdly long.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

BrotherNero said:


> Do you know something called NXT?
> 
> Balor signed 2 years ago.


It doesn't matter. When you get called up to the main roster, you're essentially starting over. Vince doesn't care what happens on NXT, it's not his product, and most of Raw's audience isn't watching it. Neville, Kevin Owens, and Finn Balor are all former NXT Champions. One is practically a jobber, one is a midcarder, nothing more and nothing less, and one is a main eventer, even though they all held the same status on NXT, all because Vince isn't booking or paying attention to NXT and his opinion, when he takes a look at you for the first time is the sole arbiter of your fate. 



Godway said:


> Regardless, you'd expect it to have that AJ/Cena type reaction if he truly was a STAR. If he beat Cena, it of had that type of huge and special reaction. It's the sad state of this company, the only guy you can beat that means anything is Cena. Rollins never got any real heat on this feud (crowd was more into him than Balor at times).
> 
> But yeah, the show was doomed to fail no matter what for being absurdly long.


I guess. :shrug


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

3MB4Life said:


> Yeah, that's a better analogy. But again, why would you then play one of those "system players" out of position? Wouldn't you do your best to get the most potential out of them? In football/soccer, you wouldn't take a striker and make him play in goals then complain that he isn't good in goals?


In American Football or Basketball you really don't find out a player is a system player until he's on a different team or a new coach comes in and changes the play style. I don't what Football/Soccer but I'm sure you can think of players who only work under a certain clubs play style.

What you're saying about Finn working better in Japan with more freedom is probably true. But I guess it just seems like a less acceptable reasoning because AJ is killing it match wise and is keeping folk interested and he's worked in places with more freedom just like Balor.

Sent from my Z828 using Tapatalk


----------



## Rated Phenomenal (Dec 31, 2011)

Fans are gonna turn on Balor quick I fear.


----------



## KC Armstrong (Jun 19, 2013)

> It took Reigns THREE years to win the world title and he won it on a random episode of Raw but Balor wins it a month into his debut..but Reigns is overpushed


After everything that has happened with Reigns, those "You deserve it" chants for Balor are so fucking funny, I almost fell out of my chair. Fuck NXT, this guy hasn't done jack shit on the main roster and is at the top of the company a month after his arrival.

I'm not even against pushes like that, but the guy has to be really special and Balor is one of the most boring motherfuckers on the roster.


----------



## phenom64 (Nov 6, 2006)

Balor was seen with his arm in a sling after the show. PWInsider says he might have a rather serious injury that may require surgery.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Did Balor legit get injured? Holy fuck, the irony.


----------



## terrydude (Nov 2, 2015)

UltimateOppitunist said:


> Fans are gonna turn on Balor quick I fear.


The Club to the rescue


----------



## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

It makes sense, in a business sense, to have Balor win because The Demon King shit would hit a creative dead end if it loses on its first PPV debut, it would have looked weak as shit. But they still made Rollins look like the stronger guy, even in losing and I can't help but wonder if they'll devalue the belt and literally pass the belt to Rollins the first opportunity they get, now they've "protected" the demon king for midcard feuds in the future, where it belongs. Although that of course is almost beside the point, as Balor didn't deserve to be here in the first place.


----------



## Ronny (Apr 7, 2016)

I've always thought that it's a bit too early to push Balor, since he's very new to the main roster and still needs improvement on the mic. I'm disappointed they decided to hand the belt over to Balor instead of Rollins, but at least he is easily more in ring capable than Reigns. I'll keep an open mind and see what Balor can do with the belt, and hopefully he does well and does not repeat the disaster of Reigns's babyface push.


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

WINNING DA BASED GAWD said:


> Did Balor legit get injured? Holy fuck, the irony.


He did seem to land badly when Seth power bombed him into the barrier a few minutes into the match.
Seth threw him from what seemed like a couple of feet too far away, and Finn took the whole impact on his upper back and right shoulder.

We'll have to just hope that it's not actually too serious. After all, he carried on wrestling for quite a while afterwards, and hit a lot of high risk offence.


----------



## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

When you look back at wrestling debuts the last few years now, it shouldn't surprise anyone that a wrestler like Bálor would be pushed this hard from the beginning. I mean let's look at some examples shall we.

The Shield - Since their debut, the Shield were booked as a force to be reckoned with. They dominated WWE for two years and were protected. Ambrose kind've fell of the rails though, but since disbanding two years ago all three of them have went on become World Champions are among WWE biggest stars. 

Paige - Paige won the Women's Champion from AJ Lee on her very first night in WWE. I know it isn't a world championship, but from a female's standpoint it's a pretty big deal. She's since gone to be one of WWE's most popular divas, and they put a huge emphasis on her in the two years since her debut. Despite recent stories about Paige, you can't deny that Paige wasn't booked hard from her debut.

Kevin Owens- KO defeated John Cena cleanly on his debut match last year. Nobody has ever done that on their debut match, let alone cleanly. Of all the opponents Cena has faced, he's been beaten cleanly by Owens, not even CM Punk defeated Cena cleanly. Now some would argue that since his feud with Cena, Owens is underutilized by WWE. But he's still been a big name on the WWE roster for a year now. My point is, Owens did something unthinkable at the time.

Rusev - Upon his debut, Rusev was a booked as a monster heel with a winning streak. When it comes to monster wrestlers, winning streaks are always necessary to build them up. He later lost to Cena and hasn't been booked as strongly since, but I still believe Rusev's future is bright. Just keep it up and hope WWE doesn't give up on him.

Charlotte - Charlottes been protected since her debut. Some might put that down to her being Ric Flair's daughter but since debuting on the main roster a year ago, she's been a big name in the Diva's Division and has really come into her own as heel. She also had a long title reign as well.

AJ Styles - People may differ with me on this but I think Styles' booking in WWE since his debut has been solid. He's been in several high profile feuds, one of which was a main event feud that saw him competing for the World Championship agaisnt Reigns. Now he's just come off of two victories over John Cena which is a big deal to Styles. He hasn't won a world championship yet, but I still think his future is bright as long as he doesn't get injured or something.

Anyway my point is. Bálor's push is more reflective of WWE wanting to make an impact with new debuting wrestlers, and what a way to make an impact then to win the Universal Championship a month after his debut. That and, with all the build up and hype given to him since his debut I think WWE had to pull to trigger. But it's not just Bálor who has been booked solid since his debut.


----------



## p3otw (Aug 10, 2016)

Ronny927 said:


> I've always thought that it's a bit too early to push Balor, since he's very new to the main roster and still needs improvement on the mic. I'm disappointed they decided to hand the belt over to Balor instead of Rollins, but at least he is easily more in ring capable than Reigns. I'll keep an open mind and see what Balor can do with the belt, and hopefully he does well and does not repeat the disaster of Reigns's babyface push.


Reigns is better in the ring than Balor


----------



## tducey (Apr 12, 2011)

I agree 110%. I don't care what Balor did in other companies, the fact is he's still new to the WWE and shouldn't have won the belt in his 1st night. Should have went to rollins.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

So now after having seen the match at Summerslam unfold, here are my thoughts:

I still stand by everything I said in the OP, and so far my theory has been proven right. Little to no opportunity for build up, as well as very poor booking on WWE's part for this match (something I wasn't taking into account out of respect for them) resulted in myself and probably many others having little to no emotional investment or interest in this match. And then came the match itself, which was very generic and went exactly how I figured it would: both guys just using move after move through out the match with little to no story being told. And you can't really tell a story when you have Rollins continue to compete the way he does: like a face even though he's supposed to be a heel. It's hurting his matches. There's been exceptions in his matches with Reigns and Ambrose because he has legitimate history with them. Here, there's no history, and there's no reason for us to give a shit.

With that said, I am going to give Rollins and Balor both a slight pass on this one, because honestly, what more could they do given the circumstances?

Again, the match was built up terribly. And it was something we should have saw coming. Again, when you rough shot a guy like Balor right into the main event scene literally as soon as he debuts, you give him no time to truly build himself up and develop any sort of character in the WWE. And then when the match happens, it just feels like a generic match. There's no reason for Balor and Rollins to hate each other here, all they want is the WWE Universal Championship. So you're just getting move after move. That's it. And guess what: It's boring. If these were two big time high profile guys in WWE who had never faced off before, then completely different story. But Balor isn't. He just got on the main roster a month ago. It's literally just Rollins facing a lower tier guy trying to make his mark on the main roster. And news flash, you need to do a lot more than win two matches to do that. Winning feuds is how you establish yourself, as well as developing character through said feuds. Hence, why I still think Sami Zayn would have been better off in this position. And don't even get me started with WWE doing Finn's demon entrance on the episode of Raw before Summerslam. An unbelievably stupid thing of them to do.

And then there's the belt. Not much you can do about that if you're the wrestlers. It's unfortunate that the crowd didn't like the belt. In all honesty, I wouldn't have went with that design either if I was in charge of making the championship title belts. In all honesty, rather than make the entire strap red, I think having the little black background behind the W be red as well as the side plates would have looked MUCH better. Having the whole thing be red is complete overkill. At this point it doesn't even look like a championship belt. Either way though, it's unfortunate (and hilarious) that the crowd kept chanting about the belt in a negative way rather than focusing on the match.

But the biggest mistake in my opinion is Finn Balor actually winning the match. Good fucking lord what are they doing. Before hand I was convinced that this match was Rollins for the taking, especially since Balor kept one-upping him in the build up to the match. Usually when this happens, the person not getting as much momentum going to the PPV or is the last one at the wrong side of the park ends up winning. Here, Balor was getting all the hits in during the build up and wins the match clean. Balor has now beaten Rusev, Reigns and Rollins clean in the month he's been on the main roster. This is just stupid. I'm glad this is happening on Raw and not on Smackdown, which has not only been the better show of the two, but still managed to have better booking decisions on this PPV (six woman tag doesn't count, fuck you Nikki Bella). 

I hope Vince and company know what they're doing (probably not), because right now the future for Raw is looking pretty bleak at the moment.

Edit: One more thing I just wanted to say, to everyone saying Reigns is better than Balor or is at least on his level from a skill standpoint, please stop commenting on this thread. That's not my point and you're completely wrong anyways. Reigns may have a style better suited for WWE matches than Balor, but Balor's a better in ring performer and it's not even close. And it's not because "oh he's a indy guy" or some shit like that. It's because he's had much, MUCH better matches in other areas of pro wrestling than Reigns ever has. Balor might be struggling to do the same in WWE (and odds are he's being horribly limited by WWE at this point, which wouldn't surprise me), but it doesn't take away from what he's done in his sixteen years in the business. And on the mic, yeah, they're both pretty bad, but again, this is Reigns we're talking about. Balor is better. It's close in that department, but Balor's better.


----------



## Ronny (Apr 7, 2016)

p3otw said:


> Reigns is better in the ring than Balor


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

AlternateDemise said:


> So now after having seen the match at Summerslam unfold, here are my thoughts:
> 
> I still stand by everything I said in the OP, and so far my theory has been proven right. Little to no opportunity for build up, as well as very poor booking on WWE's part for this match (something I wasn't taking into account out of respect for them) resulted in myself and probably many others having little to no emotional investment or interest in this match. And then came the match itself, which was very generic and went exactly how I figured it would: both guys just using move after move through out the match with little to no story being told. And you can't really tell a story when you have Rollins continue to compete the way he does: like a face even though he's supposed to be a heel. It's hurting his matches. There's been exceptions in his matches with Reigns and Ambrose because he has legitimate history with them. Here, there's no history, and there's no reason for us to give a shit.
> 
> ...


Good post!

Another small thing the company needs to take into consideration moving forward, is that they are more than welcome to place whomever they want in the main event. Balor is certainly good enough to be in that spot, but if you are going to put someone in that spot without proper build, they almost have to be a heel. Whether they intend to or not, the evidence is pretty clear that if you're pushed hard and fast over guys that have built up on a connection with the audience, its only a matter of time before fans turn or become disinterested. Its not an issue specific to wrestling either. There's a reason why your climax doesn't come at the beginning of a novel. You have to build to it for it to have any meaning. 

It also doesn't help that there's a bit of visual incongruence between Balor's wins thus far and his look. Not that its a deal breaker, but I don't think we've ever seen a guy his size roll over ME competition like this. He's essentially getting monster booking while being 5'8 170 lbs.


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## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

No one gives a fuck of the casuals what he did in JP or in his bedroom.

He is pushed faster than even Reigns and this is wrong... Even more if has zero charisma, his "demon" side is just a body painted stripper, has 0 mic skills and his in ring moves are meeeh.

He is Reigns in small... Only difference is people accept him cuz he has been cool in JP


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## Kostic (May 5, 2015)

AlternateDemise said:


> But the biggest mistake in my opinion is Finn Balor actually winning the match. Good fucking lord what are they doing. Before hand I was convinced that this match was Rollins for the taking, especially since Balor kept one-upping him in the build up to the match. Usually when this happens, the person not getting as much momentum going to the PPV or is the last one at the wrong side of the park ends up winning. Here, Balor was getting all the hits in during the build up and wins the match clean. Balor has now beaten Rusev, Reigns and Rollins clean in the month he's been on the main roster. This is just stupid. I'm glad this is happening on Raw and not on Smackdown, which has not only been the better show of the two, but still managed to have better booking decisions on this PPV (six woman tag doesn't count, fuck you Nikki Bella).
> 
> I hope Vince and company know what they're doing (probably not), because right now the future for Raw is looking pretty bleak at the moment.


Balor had to win. Having him go out as Demon and lose in his first PPV match would have been a complete disaster for the gimmick and would have just killed it.


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## lagofala (Jun 22, 2016)

I think its coming to a point where fans just go contrarian on everything. There's no booking decision that will please the fans. We as fans should recognize what the pushes are get behind them first and give it a chance before shitting on it. 

It's kind of annoying to sit next to a friend that comments on the plot holes of a movie while you are watching it. This kind of behavior confuses the wrestlers and might be the reason why so many got injured last night. That being said it is true that Summerslam was too long. Cut it down WWE.


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## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

lagofala said:


> I think its coming to a point where fans just go contrarian on everything. There's no booking decision that will please the fans. We as fans should recognize what the pushes are get behind them first and give it a chance before shitting on it.


1. No, we don't complain about everything. At least I don't anyways.

2. I'm allowed to criticize something as a fan. And it's something you should do if you are a fan. Blindly accepting everything for what it is doesn't do me or the WWE for that matter any good. 

3. We have seen the effect of said push on this match, and my worries/criticisms ended up being 100% correct.


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## muttgeiger (Feb 16, 2004)

The thing is that they have backed themselves into a corner with Balor. You can't build up this elaborate gimmick, only to have it fail right off the bat. 

He has to be winning the vast majority of his matches, and high up the card for that gimmick to work, otherwise it is basically worthless. And once he secured his spot in the title match, he had to win. 

I'm pretty neutral on Balor, other than the entrance, I don't find him interesting. But if you are going to use him, he has to be a top guy. WWE is not going to go through the pageantry of that shit, they aren't going to have the 'Demon King' crawling out during his 10 minute entrance on Main event, facing Darren young and Kalisto for a year to 'build him up slowly'. He was hotshotted, but it's really by necessity.


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## DJHJR86 (Jan 31, 2015)

This whole issue could have been avoided had they had Cesaro win the #1 contendership match, and then the title. He's been there for years on the main roster, and has earned it. A toddler in face paint should not have won a heavyweight title on his 3rd match.


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## borck lesnar (Mar 27, 2015)

*is finn balor push most retarded ever?*

dude is 35, rollins is 30. heck lesnar is 39, cena is 39, orton is 36..


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## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

muttgeiger said:


> I'm pretty neutral on Balor, other than the entrance, I don't find him interesting. But if you are going to use him, he has to be a top guy. WWE is not going to go through the pageantry of that shit, they aren't going to have the 'Demon King' crawling out during his 10 minute entrance on Main event, facing Darren young and Kalisto for a year to 'build him up slowly'. He was hotshotted, but it's really by necessity.


Again, you, like many others here, are completely missing my point. Re-read the OP.


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## shawnscrewedbret (Aug 15, 2016)

ONE REASON FIGURE SALES
Even though I like the demon and Might even try to get a figure of him myself before WWE turns him "Child Friendly"
I think its one of the coolest designs since 1997's Kane Performance.
I just always thought mankind looked kinda like a gimp
Undertaker is just kinda so-so
And Sting Really just is a warrior rip off who got lucky by letting a drunk Scott Hall Decide His New character
Its almost kinda reminds me off boogyman but he suckkked and pretty much was a comedy character


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## Rick_James (May 11, 2012)

I'm indifferent to Finn Balor, he seems cool.... but not "give him the world title off the bat" type of cool. The bigger thing is, typically wrestlers have a massive story, a chase to the world title. Not doing that means they just eliminated a huge amount of storylines for the guy and from here, he really has nothing else to do besides face Taker/Lesnar or win at other high profile paper views. Case in point, 9 months from now this guy will probably be doing nothing other than facing guys like Cesaro and Neville. So even if you are a fan of the guy, even his fan boys should recognize this was a really dumb move. Not factoring in that it entirely devalues the title. I know the WWE is desperate for new main eventers.... but shit, they should've given the dude like a year or two before putting the title on him.


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## Jabez Makaveli (Oct 15, 2015)

I'm still trying to see why people accept this kind of push, but bitch about Reigns. It's just sad. Cesaro should have been in this position period. At least Reigns didn't get injured as world champion.


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## Pizzamorg (Apr 5, 2016)

Kostic said:


> Balor had to win. Having him go out as Demon and lose in his first PPV match would have been a complete disaster for the gimmick and would have just killed it.


I agree with this 100%. The problem isn't Balor winning, it is him being in this picture in the first place.


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## ChrisMain83 (Dec 18, 2015)

A-Will said:


> I'm still trying to see why people accept this kind of push, but bitch about Reigns. It's just sad. Cesaro should have been in this position period. At least Reigns didn't get injured as world champion.


Reigns didnt get injured as champion, and? A lot of people get injured as champion, hell SETH got injured as champion. Injuries happen to anyone at any time .So what's your point?

Balor is one of the top performers in the world, never mind just WWE. He deserves a main event position. And when he comes back that's where he'll be.


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## Rated Phenomenal (Dec 31, 2011)

This injury as weird as it sounds is a blessing in disguise, whoever is Universal Champion come Royal Rumble time is going to Suplex City, Balor should be thankful it won't be him.


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## Japanese Puroresu (Jan 12, 2013)

It was fine tbh, here's the thing; it solidifies NXT as a viable breeding ground and allows for other NXT guys to come up and be instant contenders or credible opposition.


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## Jabez Makaveli (Oct 15, 2015)

ChrisMain83 said:


> Reigns didnt get injured as champion, and? A lot of people get injured as champion, hell SETH got injured as champion. Injuries happen to anyone at any time .So what's your point?
> 
> Balor is one of the top performers in the world, never mind just WWE. He deserves a main event position. And when he comes back that's where he'll be.


1.) Getting inured on your first night at World champion just goes to show how fragile you are, especially if you are new. Rollins didn't get injured on his first night as world champion, so that's not comparable.

2.) Just because he has had success in Japan and on the indies doesn't mean he should have a rocket strapped to him in his first three matches. People are always bitching about the WWE not being able to make new stars by themselves, yet shit on Roman.

3.) As I said before, besides his facepaint, he's all hype. I was bored with him in NXT and am still bored with him on the main roster. He still can't talk and fails to show personality. When you shit on Reigns on the mic, it's for a lot of things from his facial expressions to just the way he walks around the ring. Yet, Balor gets a pass for being one of the worst mic workers in the company just because he had success anywhere that's not named WWE?

The fact that you have to be on the indies and can't start at the WWE makes the fans shit on you, regardless of whether you're good or not. Balor sucks and him doing spotfests everywhere else doesn't justify that they should give him a main event push from the start, especially since Cesaro, someone that has been in the company for quite some time and has established himself, deserves that spot.


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## ChrisMain83 (Dec 18, 2015)

A-Will said:


> 1.) Getting inured on your first night at World champion just goes to show how fragile you are, especially if you are new. Rollins didn't get injured on his first night as world champion, so that's not comparable.
> 
> 2.) Just because he has had success in Japan and on the indies doesn't mean he should have a rocket strapped to him in his first three matches. People are always bitching about the WWE not being able to make new stars by themselves, yet shit on Roman.
> 
> ...


You just dont get it. I'm not arguing because every single one of your "counter" points are ridiculous and redundant.


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## Jabez Makaveli (Oct 15, 2015)

ChrisMain83 said:


> You just dont get it. I'm not arguing because every single one of your "counter" points are ridiculous and redundant.


Ok, just as ridiculous and redundant as "He's god's gift to Japan and the indies, so he should get a rocket strapped to him when he comes to the WWE and should be booked to appeal to hardcore fans. Fuck the casuals." Whatever.


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## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

A-Will said:


> 1.) Getting inured on your first night at World champion just goes to show how fragile you are, especially if you are new. Rollins didn't get injured on his first night as world champion, so that's not comparable.


Injuries can occur anytime in wrestling, there's nothing new about that. It was unfortunate that Bálor got injured just when he won the Universal Championship, but there's no way that it's shows that he's fragile. He's not injury prone, he took a bad bump and it cost him.



> 2.) Just because he has had success in Japan and on the indies doesn't mean he should have a rocket strapped to him in his first three matches. People are always bitching about the WWE not being able to make new stars by themselves, yet shit on Roman.


His success in Japan and the indies creates more of a buzz for him, and adds to his reputation as a wrestler. Just like how before coming to WWE Daniel Bryan was considered one of the best wrestlers in the world, and all I ever heard from indy fans was how great he was. WWE constantly reminds people of Bryan's indy career because it adds to his reputation as they do with most indy wrestlers now. AJ Styles, CM Punk, and Seth Rollins have all had their pasts referenced. It's a nice thing to have on your wrestling resume. 

Does it mean that Bálor should have rocket strapped to his back as you suggest? Probably not, think that was mainly WWE's choice for wanting to take a chance with him. He received a lot of praise for his work on NXT and seems to be well liked, so I guess that's why he was pushed. I don't begrudge him for WWE's choice to push him, that would be idiotic when any wrestler would take the opportunity he received in a heartbeat, but it just turned out to be him that got the push. 



> 3.) As I said before, besides his facepaint, he's all hype. I was bored with him in NXT and am still bored with him on the main roster. He still can't talk and fails to show personality. When you shit on Reigns on the mic, it's for a lot of things from his facial expressions to just the way he walks around the ring. Yet, Balor gets a pass for being one of the worst mic workers in the company just because he had success anywhere that's not named WWE?


I can't explain why fans tend to give Roman Reigns a hard time and Finn Bálor a free pass, but I think it's all relative to the individual wrestler and how they connect to the fans on a personal level. People just like Bálor I guess, he's a likable wrestler who managed to win the fan's hearts, Reigns just didn't connect with them the way Bálor did. It's kind've like Randy Orton's push in 2004. WWE saw great things in Randy and pushed him strongly, but he didn't connect as well as they hoped, and most would agree his initial push failed. Batista ended up outshining Orton and he was arguably worse than Orton. 



> The fact that you have to be on the indies and can't start at the WWE makes the fans shit on you, regardless of whether you're good or not. Balor sucks and him doing spotfests everywhere else doesn't justify that they should give him a main event push from the start, especially since Cesaro, someone that has been in the company for quite some time and has established himself, deserves that spot.


First of all, You don't have to be an indy wrestler for fans to like you. People like Bray Wyatt, Enzo Amore, and Rusev, and none of them stepped foot in an indy ring. But generally indy wrestlers are well traveled and have more experience in the ring so they are easier to get behind.

Secondly, I think it's arguable about Bálor's wrestling ability. I'm not convinced with the people who claim he's a bad wrestler. I've seen him wrestle and think he's fine. His peers seem to speak highly of him too. Either way, even if it was true I think people throw around the word spot monkey all the time but there's no meaning to it anymore. Jeff Hardy was a spot monkey and he was one of their most popular stars when he was around. People shit on his in ring ability and mic skills all the time, but he still managed to do well for himself. Neville gets called a spot monkey too but he's also well liked, and that's not taking into account the luchadores. Besides, most of the wrestling matches in WWE are spotfests anyway. They're all formulatic and well choreographed so that you know what's coming next, and they are depend on transition spots.


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## Fissiks (Oct 23, 2013)

A-Will said:


> I'm still trying to see why people accept this kind of push, but bitch about Reigns. It's just sad. Cesaro should have been in this position period. At least Reigns didn't get injured as world champion.


Regins' push comes at the expense of others. Balor's didn't...it's really that simple.


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