# Meltzer: Signs are not encouraging for AEW's next TV deal atl all!



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

You know that saying: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

It’s a little worrisome, but I’m pretty sure that AEW will be able to find a new home if Discovery doesn’t work out. It’s just unfortunate because TBS/TNT are the perfect channels for AEW. The main thing is that Tony and Discovery make a decision in advance so that Tony gets enough time to (if necessary) find a new network.

I’m not going to pretend to know the inner-workings of billion-dollar media corporations, but I just know I’ll follow AEW wherever it airs. 👍


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## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

I mean, the writing is on the wall. These people are being RUTHLESS with far bigger products than AEW. The question is can they really land somewhere that will offer them both the money and the exposure they get from being where they are now? 

That's a big ask. I'm sure they could land a pretty big deal somewhere, money-wise, but it'd likely be somewhere with lesser eyeballs on it, and that has its downside too. It'd still be preferable to staying where they are with more eyes on them and less money in their pocket.


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

I’m shocked that nobody posted here about what Warner Discovery is doing sooner. I know they have a lot of debt and they already said in the past they were going to merge HBO Max and Discovery+. The Warner Discovery media CEO is cutting everything on the Warner side to the bone including what looks like shutting down one of the top streaming services in HBO Max period. Not saying that AEW will get cancelled but Meltzer's concern is super valid on them not getting the deal they want. The Bat girl moving being canned despite their 90 million dollar budget and pretty much going to cancel every scripted program on HBO Max is making people freak out.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

This feels like the downgrade TNA had when they left SPIKE and went to DIscovery. Ratings and viewership will take a huge dip from where they currently are. It's mostly likely all downhill from here.

This is where hiring bland indy talent that don't have the look or mic skills to attract casuals bite AEW in the ass. These guys get way too much exposure. Nobody cares outside of hardcore fans.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

Discovery clearly bought WB to get AEW in its portfolio and is slashing everything to the bone to load up the Brinks truck so it can back it up and dump it in Tony’s front lawn. /s


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## Typical Cena Fan (May 18, 2016)

Ah but the bearded ones on here said AEW is a gold mine for Turner. They even stated their opinion as fact so it must be true…

HBO Max being cut is worrying but Warner Duscovery could announce they are binning AEW and some Neckbeard will post it’s a work.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Meltzer basically said, Warner Discovery are cutting costs everywhere and TNT/TBS could become live sports and not much else beyond that. He's speculating more than revealing anything.

Said he doesn't think AEW is a risk of being cancelled since it's the number one show on cable many weeks. But the timing couldn't be worse to go and ask them for a raise, which is what TK will want. Under normal circumstances, AEW could look to significantly increase their revenues since they are a top ten show on cable for the entire week usually, so yeah, the timing is very bad to ask for a renewal.

I think TK should shop the product to other networks, who aren't in this cost-cutting mode. But who? I'm not sure what the options are right now and it isn't easy to find a network as good as TNT/TBS. Someone out there may be willing to pay more than $45m-per-year for 52 episodes per year for the top show on cable for most Wednesdays, but it's a big guessing game. Warner's renewal option includes a clause that says they must pay AEW more if they're to keep them ahead of any competition, so outside bidding would be good for AEW.

If there are a lack of options on cable, TK could always talk to Netflix, Prime or one of the other streaming services who seem to be exploring live sports type products more. He does have a lot of contacts in the industry so probably knows someone there.

Renewing with Warner on the same deal wouldn't be the end of the world, but probably would hinder TK's vision of expanding AEW, such as giving out bigger salaries and boosting the production budget (they're still using the same set for most shows three years later). He'd be more vulnerable to losing guys at the end of their deals and would have to be more shrewd in his recruitment, looking for new Darbys, MJFs, Wardlows and tying them down to long-term deals off the bat.


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## thorwold (Dec 19, 2015)

TheDraw said:


> This is where hiring bland indy talent that don't have the look or mic skills to attract casuals bite AEW in the ass. These guys get way too much exposure. Nobody cares outside of hardcore fans.


This means literally nothing. Nobody is safe from this cost-cutting, they would not get an increase unless _maybe_ it was the runaway number 1 show on all of television. 

Also, the idea that there's like 900 thousand hardcore wrestling fans is very funny.


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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

You're really not going to find better cable networks than TBS/TNT. What else is there? USA obviously is a no go.

I doubt AEW gets cancelled. Live sports is a valuable commodity for the networks and AEW's ratings are always at or near the top for cable. However, as I remember saying a while ago, if Tony doesn't get a raise, he's going to need to make some cuts since I'm sure much of the additions he made came on the assumption he would be getting such a raise.

Which wouldn't be the worst thing for the content. He's in the stage where he needs to subtract and yet he just keeps adding.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

TheDraw said:


> This feels like the downgrade TNA had when they left SPIKE and went to DIscovery. Ratings and viewership will take a huge dip from where they currently are. It's mostly likely all downhill from here.
> 
> This is where hiring bland indy talent that don't have the look or mic skills to attract casuals bite AEW in the ass. These guys get way too much exposure. Nobody cares outside of hardcore fans.


TNA went to Destination America though. TNT/TBS is much better than Destination America and Meltzer said in the video that AEW is their highest rated show outside of the NBA. The situations with TNA and AEW are different. Spike wasn't bought out while looking to cut down the budget when they let TNA go.


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## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Ratings matter less than the ad sells. We don't know the numbers of that.

It doesn't bold well for AEW that the new guy in charge is a cost cutter more than anything. If he is willing to trash a 90mil movie, nothing is off limits. The odds of a better TV deal certainly look bleaker now.


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## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

WB just did a big round of cancellations and layoffs (70% of HBO Max's staff), scrapping shows/movies that were finished but not released yet, and cancelling stuff that weren't really considered flops commercially/critically. So not fully new news but a pretty strong indication of how far they're willing to go to pursue their strategy of shoveling out cheap content. The Batgirl movie getting canned is what started the ball rolling.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

In hindsight, it is a little bit awkward that they named two of their titles after the networks they're currently on.


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## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

Hopefully AEW doesn't follow the Ass Boys and end up in the dumpster. Definitely not a good sign for their future on the network though. I wouldn't be entirely shocked if it gets replaced by re-runs of some sitcom. Might be time for Tony to start shopping around for a new home.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

It's concerning. Concerning is probably the best word to describe it. I think that AEW will survive on TNT/TBS though. Optimistic while concerned.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Yes, but the reason has nothing to do with AEW. Warner is planning to kill one of the best streaming services on the market right now in HBO Max by gutting its original scripted programming and firing 70% of the developmental teams. If they're willing to do that to a highly profitable platform, AEW definitely isn't safe.*


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## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

Have to see if rampage gets gutted.


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## Uncle Iroh (5 mo ago)

I don't think they will be cancelled but it sounds more like they won’t get a big raise (like their second deal gave them) that allows them to compete better for top names. Warner is definitely cutting spending on a lot of shit and wrestling despite being popular for them is far from marquee television.

I have looked at some of the other decisions from the merger though and some of the decisions are weird. They actually cancelled a show hours before it aired, they went on to finish a 90 million dollar film and went nope it can stay on the shelf. They've gone on to cancel tons of other films and shows in various stages of production and as mentioned there's a rumor now is they are going to axe HBO Max and merge everything over to Discovery+.


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## No Chance in Hell (6 mo ago)

They're canning big budget DC movies that were already finished and original content for HBO Max. I think a failed wrestling show that barely draws a 0.8 rating will be easy for them to axe.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Uncle Iroh said:


> I don't think they will be cancelled but it sounds more like they won’t get a big raise (like their second deal gave them) that allows them to compete better for top names. Warner is definitely cutting spending on a lot of shit and wrestling despite being popular for them is far from marquee television.
> 
> I have looked at some of the other decisions from the merger though and some of the decisions are weird. They actually cancelled a show hours before it aired, they went on to finish a 90 million dollar film and went nope it can stay on the shelf. They've gone on to cancel tons of other films and shows in various stages of production and as mentioned there's a rumor now is they are going to axe HBO Max and merge everything over to Discovery+.


*I think Batgirl was either done or close to being done and they just canceled it because they deemed it unworthy of the big screen. It's baffling and embarrassing for all involved parties.*


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## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

I thought Meltzer was hemorrhaging sources and credibility as any sort of news source. His speculation, which this was, was worth even less to the truth tellers. It is their responsibility to keep fans honest…or something.

I have never spoken about the next AEW TV deal. My opinion means nothing on the subject. If AEW were to fall out of the sky and crash down to earth I would be bummed. A lot of talented people would be out of work in my favourite 2019-2022 wrestling. My heart will go on and I will learn to breathe again. Pro wrestling has been a favourite hobby of mine for most of my life. I can live without it in the real world and online. There are more promotions than the Loud 2. Heck, maybe the timing will synch up and WWE will pair up it’s renewed Triple H vision with the hiring of AEW’s best and brightest. I can also fall back into just the Japan, UK and Mexico scenes.

Can the UK wrestling scene recover from losing a disproportionate number of sexual deviants compared with the other major wrestling territories in 2022? Will PROGRESS and ICW gain their independence once more?


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## No Chance in Hell (6 mo ago)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I think Batgirl was either done or close to being done and they just canceled it because they deemed it unworthy of the big screen. It's baffling and embarrassing for all involved parties.*


It really makes you wonder just how bad it was considering most DC movies are already mid. And if they thought that was bad then imagine if they actually sit down and watch Dynamite or even worse Rampage.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Hopefully, this will make his father realize that Tony shouldn't have so much to do with booking and he brings in someone to run the company who knows how.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

No Chance in Hell said:


> They're canning big budget DC movies that were already finished and original content for HBO Max. I think a failed wrestling show that barely draws a 0.8 rating will be easy for them to axe.


0.8? Dynamite has never gotten over a 0.68.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

If Tony Khan was more like Nick Khan, i would cut the waste and let go of a ton of talent. Keep the ones who are less indy, less bland and showcase the guys who will bring in the money.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Chan Hung said:


> If Tony Khan was more like Nick Khan, i would cut the waste and let go of a ton of talent. Keep the ones who are less indy, less bland and showcase the guys who will bring in the money.


I would buy OVW, and maybe a few other small promotions, use my tv connections to get them quality local tv deals, and use them to develop talent. And use their lives shows as a house show system, with AEW stars being booked to drive ticket sales.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

It is going to be a hard sell for a new deal when you have blading on a regular basis on the show, not good for advertisers


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

No Chance in Hell said:


> It really makes you wonder just how bad it was considering most DC movies are already mid. And if they thought that was bad then imagine if they actually sit down and watch Dynamite or even worse Rampage.


*I mean yeah, given that DC movies generally suck and they're also killing HBO Max, which is awesome, I already don't trust their taste, so I'm just going to chalk it up to yet another stupid decision.*


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## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Ah so this isn't Dave throwing a tantrum because AEW haven't been catering to him lately.


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## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

Meltzer is wrong on certain things here. First of all, AEW's parent company is not WarnerMedia or WBD. AEW is a content provider at the end of the day to WBD. 
He's starting this speculation because of the Batgirl's movie cancellation.

I have friends who work for WBD. The story that I was told was that WBD execs watched Batgirl, and they realized that the movie had no prayer of making its money back much less earn a profit. This has nothing to do with TV (which is the area that AEW operates on). I like Meltzer's work but he is way off base sometimes, and this is one of those instances. 

Meltzer also said that the TV deal runs out end of next year. If that is true, then AEW has time to shop around if the money isn't good. I personally believe that WBD will renew them and give them a bigger TV deal than the one that they currently have.


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## No Chance in Hell (6 mo ago)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I mean yeah, given that DC movies generally suck and they're also killing HBO Max, which is awesome, I already don't trust their taste, so I'm just going to chalk it up to yet another stupid decision.*


I get HBO Max for free as a perk from my AT&T phone plan. I think it has a better selection of content than Netflix, Hulu or Paramount. Sucks to see it go.


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## Fearless Viper (Apr 6, 2019)

I doubt this. AEW's Dynamite is consistently on the top 5 of the cable ratings and it cost cheap for TNT to keep so I see no worry about it. Rampage on the other hand is done.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

This can't be. Someone keeps telling me in another thread/section that it's the other way around.

Whoops.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Heel turn of the year. Meltzer will be bowing to the King of Kings by the end of the year while leaving AEW in the rear view mirror. 😂


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

It’s over. They don’t give a shit about AEW which is why Rampage is in a dead timeslot since day 1. Which is also why Dynamite was replaced by the NHL on TNT. AEW might get good ratings but if no one is willing to advertise, the ratings don’t mean shit. Tony Khan screwed up a long time ago. Good luck finding a new network.


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## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

No Chance in Hell said:


> They're canning big budget DC movies that were already finished and original content for HBO Max. I think a failed wrestling show that barely draws a 0.8 rating will be easy for them to axe.


A less than 3 year old Wrestling program that regularly finishes #1 on the night it airs is a failure? 

The post quality here nose dives by the day.


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## No Chance in Hell (6 mo ago)

Sounds like MJF will get the last laugh.


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## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

PavelGaborik said:


> A less than 3 year old Wrestling program that regularly finishes #1 on the night it airs is a failure?
> 
> The post quality here nose dives by the day.


He’s a gimmick poster. Just another mark.


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## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

Mr316 said:


> It’s over. They don’t give a shit about AEW which is why Rampage is in a dead timeslot since day 1. Which is also why Dynamite was replaced by the NHL on TNT. AEW might get good ratings but if no one is willing to advertise, the ratings don’t mean shit. Tony Khan screwed up a long time ago. Good luck finding a new network.


You realize that Meltzer is not reporting anything he’s just speculating just like the rest of us. No one knows anything


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## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

Sad Panda said:


> He’s a gimmick poster. Just another mark.


As if there wasn't enough already.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

It's not like the radical overhaul associated with this merger is a new phenomenon. I'm sure Tony Khan is well prepared for all outcomes.


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I think Batgirl was either done or close to being done and they just canceled it because they deemed it unworthy of the big screen. It's baffling and embarrassing for all involved parties.*


A big part of the movie/scripted shows cuts are related to the tax incentives that come from ending them. I don't think they would get that by cutting a live non-scripted (technically) show. The one thing that helps AEW is that it is a very low cost show for any network because AEW covers all of their production costs and the salaries for all of their employees. It is much easier to budget for a flat $45 million per year then the additional costs that come from the long term production of a scripted TV show or movie. A big cost for those properties is the marketing and advertising cost, which is another reason why those properties were cut early.

I have to admit it is much tougher to guess what AEW's next contract would look like. I still think they will get an offer for an increase, but it may only be $65 million per year instead of $100+ million. It also seems likely that Warner/Discovery will use the 1 year increase extension. The increase is likely something like $55 million, which isn't a huge amount for Warner to keep on a top performing show with low costs.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

DUD said:


> It's not like the radical associated with this merger are a new phenomenon. I'm sure Tony Khan is well prepared for all outcomes.



Just like he was well prepared to find a platform for ROH after overpaying for the company?


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Its meltzer meaning a tv deal is imminent


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## Martyn (Feb 21, 2010)

They still have a contract valid until the end of 2023? That gives them a lot of time to land a deal somewhere else if needed. They have a strong resume of shows ranked near or at the top of cable, so it should be easier than when they had to start from scratch in 2019.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Martyn said:


> They still have a contract valid until the end of 2023? That gives them a lot of time to land a deal somewhere else if needed. They have a strong resume of shows ranked near or at the top of cable, so it should be easier than when they had to start from scratch in 2019.


What happens if rating start going downward which is not unrealistic, especially if triple h has a creative impact on wwe that brings back old disgruntled fans that grew bored of Vince's creative ideas. Also the blading on a regular basis, networks/advertisers find that very low brow and trashy.


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## ClintDagger (Feb 1, 2015)

Wrestling has awful demos. Don’t be fooled by the key demo stuff. That key demo only matters if those people are within a certain education and / or income bracket and wrestling fans are far from that. If AEW had total viewership numbers like WWE does they’d be far more valuable. And AEW is valuable to WB but only as cheap programming. If AEW is seeking a certain fraction of WWE money, WB will let them walk and they absolutely should.


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## Mr316 (Dec 3, 2020)

Sad Panda said:


> You realize that Meltzer is not reporting anything he’s just speculating just like the rest of us. No one knows anything


I’m giving my opinion. I believe they won’t be renewed.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Luckily for AEW, Tony doesn´t need to make money on his hobby.

That said, I predicted when they started that in 5 years, we´d see a "rise and fall of AEW". That opinion still stands.


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Mr316 said:


> I’m giving my opinion. I believe they won’t be renewed.


Renewal isn't an issue here. Renewal with more money/a better deal is. 

Worst case scenario; Discovery doesn't give them a better deal and expect them to stay.


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## HookedOnThuganomics (10 mo ago)

thorwold said:


> I mean, the writing is on the wall. These people are being RUTHLESS with far bigger products than AEW. The question is can they really land somewhere that will offer them both the money and the exposure they get from being where they are now?
> 
> That's a big ask. I'm sure they could land a pretty big deal somewhere, money-wise, but it'd likely be somewhere with lesser eyeballs on it, and that has its downside too. It'd still be preferable to staying where they are with more eyes on them and less money in their pocket.


Yeah it's actually worrisome, they literally shelves a movie that had like $90 million put into it and they are getting rid of HBO Max


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## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

Sooj super indy V.2 AEW in smaller buildings.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Just like he was well prepared to find a platform for ROH after overpaying for the company?


Completely different scenarios for obvious reasons.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Lmfao the shills voting that last option 😭


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

man, who knows

Maybe AEW turns into a weekly streaming and monthly PPV promotion

maybe it goes to another channel and maybe it stays

i try not to worry too much about tomorrow - it is what it is


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## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

They still have 2023.


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## RogueSlayer (Mar 31, 2021)

Hopefully it gets axed and moves to YouTube where it belongs, Dynamite and Rampage doesn't desvere to be on television.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

The Cable TV bubble has to pop soon. You can’t have fewer and fewer people watching without massive cuts to go along with it.

WWE is in just as bad of shape in getting an increase. Peacock lost close to $467 million alone last quarter with no growth at all. That’s after buying WWE Network. You add WWE Network and you don’t grow subscribers? That’s evidence that wrestling isn’t that sought after property in streaming 









NBCU Earnings Rise, But Peacock Loss Hits $467M and Paid Subs Stall at 13M


Parent company Comcast says the broadband subscriber base at its cable systems business was also "flat" amid a slowdown in growth momentum across the cable industry.



www.hollywoodreporter.com


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Randy Lahey said:


> The Cable TV bubble has to pop soon. You can’t have fewer and fewer people watching without massive cuts to go along with it.
> 
> WWE is in just as bad of shape in getting an increase. Peacock lost close to $467 million alone last quarter with no growth at all. That’s after buying WWE Network. You add WWE Network and you don’t grow subscribers? That’s evidence that wrestling isn’t that sought after property in streaming
> 
> ...


WWE is absolutely getting an increase with ease. They beat everything on Cable and recently they've been beating everything on Network TV outside The Bachelorette. USA also needs WWE. TBS doesn't need AEW. Two completely different situations.

You'd think you'd learn. You're the same guy who said WWE would get no contract last time, and they broke the record. Keep up that COPE.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Showstopper said:


> USA also needs WWE. TBS doesn't need AEW.


Again, I know math is difficult for you, but the numbers are terrible for WWE in relation to what they are being paid, and what Turner pays AEW. 

They get paid 5x what AEW is to do at best around 20% higher demos than a competing wrestling show. Even if you want to compare total viewers, let’s do that. They are getting paid 5x to only do 2x what AEW does.

Nobody is paying that type of premium for a wrestling show when the market isn’t paying that, and if Warner isn’t increasing AEW, WWE def won’t get one from NBC Universal after what happened with Peacock and WWE Network.

And USA doesn’t need WWE. They have all the other sports coming to their network after NBC Sports was shutdown in January. 

Why does USA need WWE? Nobody needs any business that loses them money. You can’t carry a loss leader in an environment like this. Especially one dependent on advertising dollars in a recessionary environment. Bottomline is if fewer and fewer people are watching Cable, Cable companies must cut back. Warner is doing this. NBC Universal will too. NBC probably under more stress as they are publicly traded. Same for Disney which is why Disney is trying to spin off ESPN bc it’s a failure for them despite being it’s most watched network.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Randy Lahey said:


> Again, I know math is difficult for you, but the numbers are terrible for WWE in relation to what they are being paid, and what Turner pays AEW.
> 
> They get paid 5x what AEW is to do at best around 20% higher demos than a competing wrestling show. Even if you want to compare total viewers, let’s do that. They are getting paid 5x to only do 2x what AEW does.
> 
> ...


Again, you said all of this with the contract that they're on right now, that they'd get no contract because they're down...and they wound up getting the biggest TV contract in wrestling history...again.

Without WWE; USA has nothing of relevance. TBS/TNT was one of the biggest, if not the biggest Cable Network before AEW, and they will after AEW, as well..

I know all of that is very difficult for you to understand and you are probably tired of taking L's in the RAW and AEW ratings threads every single week of your existence, but...

It's just hilarious everything you've said about WWE has come back to AEW.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

USA could always replace WWE with AEW at a cheaper rate. Maybe they switch networks


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Geeee said:


> USA could always replace WWE with AEW at a cheaper rate. Maybe they switch networks


USA and WWE have a relationship that goes back 40ish years, even before RAW. Between that and the much higher ratings WWE brings is, this has less than zero chance of happening.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Showstopper said:


> USA and WWE have a relationship that goes back 40ish years, even before RAW. Between that and the much higher ratings WWE brings is, this has less than zero chance of happening.


WWE has left USA network before.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

No Chance in Hell said:


> They're canning big budget DC movies that were already finished and original content for HBO Max. I think a failed wrestling show that barely draws a 0.8 rating will be easy for them to axe.


If they were drawing a .8 they would be getting huge money. No wrestling company is drawing that, WWE has hit the .6's a few times though. AEW did for the debut and .53 for Punks debut, other than that it is .45 and down. Right now low .3s and I have a gut feeling today will be sub .3. All they hype is with WWE right now.


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## D Z (Nov 30, 2019)

Honestly with the cord cutters, we may end up just with Triple H's new and improved WWE in the future.

AEW can be the bingo hall promotion on youtube for containmemt purposes.


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Geeee said:


> WWE has left USA network before.


Yeah they left in a time when wrestling was far more popular. It’s not anywhere close to that now. 

Environments completely changed.

I think Tony’s biggest concern right now is getting a deal for Ring of Honor. If he doesn’t get a TV deal for them, it’s dead. Now, it could still be a valuable property if AEW eventually gets a streaming deal bc of the library, but in this environment it’s going to be hard to get one given the heavy losses at streamers NetFlix, HBO Max, Paramounts, Disney+.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

By 0.8, the guy probably means 800,000 total viewers (even though the P2+ is not presented in decimals), which they have fallen beneath a grand total of once in 2022 on what was cable's lowest viewed day in decades. Dynamite ratings are very stable and have been from the start. They certainly haven't lost the same % of their viewers as WWE in the past three years if you look at averages and not just a pilot episode. To be honest, it's their 18-49 they want to get up, but it's proving difficult as so many shows are doing lower 18-49 ratings lately. Five out of the last six weeks, Dynamite has been #1 in the Nielsen charts with 0.31, 0.36, 0.36, 0.32 and 0.32. A year ago, some of those may not have even guaranteed top three or five. WWE is currently having its equivalent hot spell of what AEW was doing a year ago when they brought in a bunch of big names in quick succession, but those hot spells tend not to last anymore.


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## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

I hope they can get a new deal. A lot of jobs at risk if not.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

F**K you and your momma if you voted the last option and meant it. Fuckin clowns🖕

But yeah times are ruthless right now with Discovery. AEW not getting an increase would not be their fault, especially with HBO Max essentially getting cut.


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## Tell it like it is (Jul 1, 2019)

Prosper said:


> F**K you and your momma if you voted the last option and meant it. Fuckin clowns🖕
> 
> But yeah times are ruthless right now with Discovery. AEW not getting an increase would not be their fault, especially with HBO Max essentially getting cut.


I'm actually glad he made this thread. It makes it easier whose bitch ass to put on ignore.


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## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

12 people showing how they are truly pieces of shit in that poll


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## MIZizAwesome (Apr 6, 2012)

TheDraw said:


> This feels like the downgrade TNA had when they left SPIKE and went to DIscovery. Ratings and viewership will take a huge dip from where they currently are. It's mostly likely all downhill from here.
> 
> This is where hiring bland indy talent that don't have the look or mic skills to attract casuals bite AEW in the ass. These guys get way too much exposure. Nobody cares outside of hardcore fans.


Love this. Glad there's people that are still brilliant posters around here.

I've been saying this for like a year+ but then the aew dogs come out! But Yuta Lee moriorty (spelled wrong!?) Are the future! 😂 They have the most generic town vfw hall wrestlers that I've ever seen. I thought TNA was bad then aew came a long 😆


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

MrMeeseeks said:


> 12 people showing how they are truly pieces of shit in that poll


Indeed, I wonder if they all know votes are public (just click the option). Several of them are obvious from their posts here (and usernames), but one or two surprised me. Imagine wanting a wrestling promotion that employs some 100 talents and entertains a lot of people to go out of business, all for petty or vindictive reasons.

I've had this discussion with a friend of 20 years and we agree, there is a whole generation of fans who've only really known WWE and are happy to have only them in place as a major promotion. Anyone who was alive/old enough to know better before then realises that the more major promotions, the better for the industry. Just don't watch what you don't like.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

AEW going out of business this early would be disastrous for the wrestling business.

It’s one the reasons why I feel AEW needs to do as good of a job as possible. Could be the last chance of our lifetime to have a tv wrestling show outside of WWE.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop (Nov 2, 2015)

Interesting how all of a sudden Meltzer is credible again.


----------



## Kishido (Aug 12, 2014)

What? They have been Numero on the cable, call themselves Demo God and ar close to million. come on


----------



## Upstart474 (May 13, 2018)

I think Discovery/ Warner will keep Dynamite but let go of Rampage. Last week Rampage was at 300k viewers, not inspiring ratings at all. One thing Network Executives do give a f about is fan's feeling, if you can't good ratings, you got to get out. Its nothing personal, it is business.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Interesting how all of a sudden Meltzer is credible again.


he isn’t. The canceling of HBO shows is hardly his report and should worry any tv show that isn’t NHL or NBA.


----------



## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

La Parka said:


> he isn’t. The canceling of HBO shows is hardly his report and should worry any tv show that isn’t NHL or NBA.


isn’t AEW in that “live sport” category that they crave?


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Sad Panda said:


> isn’t AEW in that “live sport” category that they crave?


Hopefully.

Networks are weird when it comes to wrestling.


----------



## ClintDagger (Feb 1, 2015)

Randy Lahey said:


> Again, I know math is difficult for you, but the numbers are terrible for WWE in relation to what they are being paid, and what Turner pays AEW.
> 
> They get paid 5x what AEW is to do at best around 20% higher demos than a competing wrestling show. Even if you want to compare total viewers, let’s do that. They are getting paid 5x to only do 2x what AEW does.
> 
> ...


WWE is the only reason USA is relevant. Without Raw, they wouldn’t be a top 10 cable network. I do think USA is overpaying for WWE because WWE doesn’t have that many options.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

AEW really might be screwed here. It sucks that Warner is in cost-cutting mode. That very well might cost AEW their TV deal.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

deadcool said:


> Will renew them and give them a bigger TV deal than the one that they currently have.


Not a fucking chance.

Rampage won't survive for a start.


----------



## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


don’t know what that means but probably a good thing they are featured.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

An update on HBO Max, which isn't being killed contrary to rumours. Could AEW end up on this platform some day?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555298285178478592

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555297599342739456


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Rampage is dead unless its moved to another station like truetv. Ratings growth is down all over, there is no hype, they are not traveling enough to different places. All signs are down for AEW at the moment.

If renewed i doubt they get an increase in funds. more likely a big cut.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

3venflow said:


> Indeed, I wonder if they all know votes are public (just click the option). Several of them are obvious from their posts here (and usernames), but one or two surprised me. Imagine wanting a wrestling promotion that employs some 100 talents and entertains a lot of people to go out of business, all for petty or vindictive reasons.


Why do you care though whether those people lost their jobs? They wouldn't care if you lost yours.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

3venflow said:


> An update on HBO Max, which isn't being killed contrary to rumours. Could AEW end up on this platform some day?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555298285178478592
> ...


they are touting HBO max as male skewed and the home of ‘fandoms’

sounds tailor made for AEW to me


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

the_flock said:


> Why do you care though whether those people lost their jobs? They wouldn't care if you lost yours.


Basic humanity. If over 100 people lose their jobs in one go, that is 100 families affected, some (the younger guys) more than others (the Jerichos and Hardys). And with no second major, there is no job stability for anyone as WWE and its bottom line policy can't pick them all up. New Japan is very prudent with its recruits, IMPACT barely spends any money, ditto MLW and NWA.

Also, the wrestling business is better with more major promotions. You should know this since I believe you were alive and conscious during the 1990s. Some people loved WWF and hated WCW. Some people loved WCW and hated WWF. 20-odd years later, no one could say WCW dying was good for the industry. AEW dying would not be good for the industry either and the only people who would celebrate it are generally not very good people, because there's NO valid reason to wish it out of business ("I don't like it" isn't a valid reason).


----------



## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

the_flock said:


> Why do you care though whether those people lost their jobs? They wouldn't care if you lost yours.


Empathy. It’s ok to show it. Even if it’s not reciprocated.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

I'm genuinely curious why 16 people want them to be cancelled basically. 

You'd just be wishing for wrestling to further be irrelevant, even if you don't like AEW.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Dr. Middy said:


> I'm genuinely curious why 16 people want them to be cancelled basically.
> 
> You'd just be wishing for wrestling to further be irrelevant, even if you don't like AEW.


AEW being around makes no difference to wrestlings relevancy.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

the_flock said:


> AEW being around makes no difference to wrestlings relevancy.


It would probably be the last time for generations you'd see a real attempt at another major promotion, so wrestling would basically be again in the hands of WWE alone. 

So in terms of any future relevancy, yeah it would effect it.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

3venflow said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555294297066446850


I think it's funny that Warner are quick to flaunt Thunder Rosa, Jade Cargill etc on things like this, because of diversity, yet it is highly rumored that they're the ones behind the strict "1 woman's match per show" initiative.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Dr. Middy said:


> It would probably be the last time for generations you'd see a real attempt at another major promotion, so wrestling would basically be again in the hands of WWE alone.
> 
> So in terms of any future relevancy, yeah it would effect it.


It wouldn't make a difference.

People only got behind AEW in the first place to rebel against WWE because they were obsessed with having an alternative which wasn't WWE.

AEW has made no impact whatsoever.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

the_flock said:


> It wouldn't make a difference.
> 
> People only got behind AEW in the first place to rebel against WWE because they were obsessed with having an alternative which wasn't WWE.
> 
> AEW has made no impact whatsoever.


But you'd basically be choosing the option of a monopoly by being content with them going under. Can't say there's been an industry where having a monopoly has been a positive, so I don't know why anybody would want that for wrestling, especially as a fan. Then WWE could do whatever they want, and if you didn't like it, well tough luck then.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Geeee said:


> I think it's funny that Warner are quick to flaunt Thunder Rosa, Jade Cargill etc on things like this, because of diversity, yet it is highly rumored that they're the ones behind the strict "1 woman's match per show" initiative.


you mean tv execs are greedy hypocrites??!

never! XD


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

FEAR THE AXE OF ZASLAV! 

He's cutting everything at Warner. TNT and TBS will be mainly a non-scripted format from now on. AEW may be affected but wrestling still considered like sport aka non-scripted so AEW may be safe. I think if AEW would hit 2 + in ratings they would be more safe. So TK just has himself to blame if they get cut.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Dr. Middy said:


> I'm genuinely curious why 16 people want them to be cancelled basically.
> 
> You'd just be wishing for wrestling to further be irrelevant, even if you don't like AEW.


I'm not wishing that but if say WWE gettings a lot better with HHH and AEW goes away, I wonder wouldn't be better than Vince being there and both WWE and AEW sucking like they are now? 

I'd almost rather that Warner cancel AEW and put another fed like MLW or the NWA at lowest cost. And see if they would do as well as AEW. At least I bet Corgan wouldn't have his fed losing 90 million per year.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Dr. Middy said:


> I'm genuinely curious why 16 people want them to be cancelled basically.
> 
> You'd just be wishing for wrestling to further be irrelevant, even if you don't like AEW.



I don’t want them to be canceled. Just major changes.


This should be time to call out the Dubbalos that were once prevalent on this forum that said they were fine with AEW catering to a minority of wrestling fans and that “If you don’t like it, don’t watch it.” It seems many people took their advice and now AEW’s financial stability is being threatened since Khan is pretty dependent on a good new TV deal.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Geeee said:


> I think it's funny that Warner are quick to flaunt Thunder Rosa, Jade Cargill etc on things like this, because of diversity, yet it is highly rumored that they're the ones behind the strict "1 woman's match per show" initiative.


It makes perfect sense to me. Virtue Signaling is a full time job now in the US.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Live sports = TV's only valuable asset moving forward

Silly to compare AEW with HBM Max original productions or whatever is going on here. It does mean something with regards to negotiating for a major bump in the deal, but beyond that this is being overblown by all the ustual suspects.

Realistically, are there any other large TV networks to bid on AEW? What kind of connections does his family have? Would a streaming deal be more competitive at this stage? 

There's so much we don't know and it's a fluid landscape right now.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Prized Fighter said:


> A big part of the movie/scripted shows cuts are related to the tax incentives that come from ending them. I don't think they would get that by cutting a live non-scripted (technically) show. The one thing that helps AEW is that it is a very low cost show for any network because AEW covers all of their production costs and the salaries for all of their employees. It is much easier to budget for a flat $45 million per year then the additional costs that come from the long term production of a scripted TV show or movie. A big cost for those properties is the marketing and advertising cost, which is another reason why those properties were cut early.
> 
> I have to admit it is much tougher to guess what AEW's next contract would look like. I still think they will get an offer for an increase, but it may only be $65 million per year instead of $100+ million. It also seems likely that Warner/Discovery will use the 1 year increase extension. The increase is likely something like $55 million, which isn't a huge amount for Warner to keep on a top performing show with low costs.


*I read that they ended Scooby Doo for tax purposes, but saw no confirmation on Batgirl besides disrespectfully telling people it's unworthy of production. It's crazy that WB is run by a real life Devin Weston.*


----------



## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I read that they ended Scooby Doo for tax purposes, but saw no confirmation on Batgirl besides disrespectfully telling people it's unworthy of production. It's crazy that WB is run by a real life Devin Weston.*


Is it true that Batgirl was in post production?


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Sad Panda said:


> Is it true that Batgirl was in post production?


*"Nearly finished" $90 million dollar film. These executives are infuriatingly stupid.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554567295699238912*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555005732637908993


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *"Nearly finished" $90 million dollar film. These executives are infuriatingly stupid.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1554567295699238912*
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1555005732637908993


maybe they thought this film was trash and wanted to avoid sunk cost fallacy. I think we may be reaching super hero saturation, where only good ones are gonna do well at the box office. Like you can't just squeeze out a super turd and expect to make $1billion anymore.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Geeee said:


> maybe they thought this film was trash and wanted to avoid sunk cost fallacy. I think we may be reaching super hero saturation, where only good ones are gonna do well at the box office. Like you can't just squeeze out a super turd and expect to make $1billion anymore.


*Sounds like a DC problem, because Marvel can't relate. They almost made Batman money with Ant-Man. Maybe they should stop f*** sucking at their jobs.*


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Sounds like a DC problem, because Marvel can't relate. They almost made Batman money with Ant-Man. Maybe they should stop f*** sucking at their jobs.*


It makes me wonder how bad it could be if they said "yeah we should release that" for Batman v Superman and Justice League which were horrible but then said "oh god, bury it at sea with the 1994 Fantastic Four movie" with this one.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Sounds like a DC problem, because Marvel can't relate. They almost made Batman money with Ant-Man. Maybe they should stop f*** sucking at their jobs.*


New Thor sucked ass though. 

I can see the marvel movies going shit. It just hasn't been the same since Endgame.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> New Thor sucked ass though.
> 
> I can see the marvel movies going shit. It just hasn't been the same since Endgame.


I really liked Spider-Man: No Way Home but did not like the second Doctor Strange one at all. Have not see the new Thor yet.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

zkorejo said:


> New Thor sucked ass though.
> 
> I can see the marvel movies going shit. It just hasn't been the same since Endgame.


*You're right about that. Why would I cheer for the hero when the villain is right? It reminded me of watching wrestling.*


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

One Shed said:


> I really liked Spider-Man: No Way Home but did not like the second Doctor Strange one at all. Have not see the new Thor yet.


Spiderman was great. I liked Multiverse of Madness too but wasn't too great.

But these movies are just lacking. Some of the best marvel stuff was civil war, tony/captain banter and arguments. This new phase or whatever it is, just seems lackluster so far.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *You're right about that. Why would I cheer for the hero when the villain is right? It reminded me of watching wrestling.*


It's not even so that villain was right, well he was the first time he killed a god. But then it was just him infected with the weapon.

There was just too much comedy.. forced comedy. Zeus stuff was downright embarassing to watch. The movie wasn't taking itself seriously. You see Christian Bale brilliantly coming across as this evil entity and a second later Thor is no selling everything. He completely no sold everything until the climax.

This is the first time I have not liked Thor in a Thor movie. He just came across as a douchebag.

Edit: On topic. I'm not worried after seeing this:


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

R.I.P AEW.


----------



## DrEagles (Oct 12, 2019)

shadow_spinner said:


> I’m shocked that nobody posted here about what Warner Discovery is doing sooner. I know they have a lot of debt and they already said in the past they were going to merge HBO Max and Discovery+. The Warner Discovery media CEO is cutting everything on the Warner side to the bone including what looks like shutting down one of the top streaming services in HBO Max period. Not saying that AEW will get cancelled but Meltzer's concern is super valid on them not getting the deal they want. The Bat girl moving being canned despite their 90 million dollar budget and pretty much going to cancel every scripted program on HBO Max is making people freak out.


HBO Max is by far the best streaming app. Fuck them to hell for merging just to cut this and other Warner media products. What idiots


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> I don’t want them to be canceled. Just major changes.
> 
> 
> *This should be time to call out the Dubbalos that were once prevalent on this forum* that said they were fine with AEW catering to a minority of wrestling fans and that “If you don’t like it, don’t watch it.” It seems many people took their advice and now AEW’s financial stability is being threatened since Khan is pretty dependent on a good new TV deal.


If AEW needs to morph into something I wouldn't enjoy in order to be financially stable - and I'm not convinced that it does - then I have no reason to care if it exists or not beyond my desire to see multiple promotions available for talent to find work with.

I wasn't an immediate fan, but AEW grew on me. My wrestling tastes skew more toward workrate, flippy stuff, indie comedy matches, and 'garbage wrestling' than talky segments, in part because that's what my dad exposed me to first as a kid rather than the WWE style. The indie-and-non American heavy roster was made up of folks familiar to me and I enjoyed seeing indie stalwarts get a bit of mainstream screen time. I liked the legends as managers. The format built around various factions and match variety, which is still how AEW rolls, is exactly what I want. Lately, AEW television has started veering too far from its origins for me, though Forbidden Door was the best PPV I've seen in ages and I quite enjoyed the recent ROH one as well. 

I can't speak for others, and I really don't know who does and doesn't post here these days, but I'm not here Dubbaloing things up because I realized the WF regulars by and large don't like AEW much. This is more of WWE fan board - there's not much discussion on WF about any of the promotions I follow. My AEW enthusiasm is already stumbling because of the increased focus on more mainstream American wrestling tropes, so coming here to a section full of misery isn't appealing. I don't know; I like AEW too much to want to bash it constantly, I don't love AEW enough to care about defending it, and my life's not in a place where I get a ton of laughs out of trolling superfans anymore.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Welp, I hate to say I told you all so but I told you all so.

Yes, AEW does really good every week in the ratings, they are number 1 and their demographic is strong but that all means zero because the advertisers don't want to pay to advertise to wrestling fans. Why? Because according to censuses, according to general feeling and according to the live crowds the majority of hardcore wrestling fans aren't worth dropping big advertising dollars on.

For what it's worth I don't think they'll be cancelled but I think their deal will be for less money. I think they signed AEW back in 2019 with the promise that it'd be competitive with WWE and would change the face of wrestling and they haven't managed to do that.



3venflow said:


> Also, the wrestling business is better with more major promotions. You should know this since I believe you were alive and conscious during the 1990s. Some people loved WWF and hated WCW. Some people loved WCW and hated WWF. 20-odd years later, no one could say WCW dying was good for the industry. AEW dying would not be good for the industry either and the only people who would celebrate it are generally not very good people, because there's NO valid reason to wish it out of business ("I don't like it" isn't a valid reason).


I love the confidence you say this with despite being 100% wrong.

Take it from someone actually in it, the wrestling business is NOT better with more major promotions. If you're an independent wrestling promotion these days there is very little star power for you to pick from. The biggest names actively getting around the wrestling circuit currently are guys like Matt Cardona, John Morrison, Rob Van Dam (Who is in his fifties), Alberto Del Rio (Who has some legal issues), Braun Strowman and then there is a big drop to WWE midcarders from like 10-15 years ago.

Compare that to if AEW didn't exist the scene would probably have Adam Cole, Andrade, Bryan Danielson, Buddy Matthews, Chris Jericho, Christian, Christopher Daniels, Claudio Castagnoli, Colt Cabana, Dustin Rhodes, FTR, Jake Hager, Jay Lethal, Jeff Hardy, Jon Moxley, Kenny Omega, Malakai Black, Matt Hardy, Matt Sydal, Miro, PAC, Paul Wight, Samoa Joe, Sting, The Bucks and others who would most likely wrestle for major international promotions or significantly benefit the independent promoters.

It isn't like AEW is taking these guys and making them bigger stars either like WCW and WWF did with wrestlers in the 90s. They are taking these guys, putting them on a TV show for hardcore wrestling fans and diminishing their star power as more and more people forget about them, similar to TNA back in the day.

I don't want AEW to die but if they did the rest of the wrestling world would go into a boom. Promoters could use the likes of Bryan Danielson and Samoa Joe to headline their shows instead of John Morrison and Rob Van Dam, prices for guys would be less because more competition, hundreds of promotions would thrive or have the ability to thrive instead of just one.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

DrEagles said:


> HBO Max is by far the best streaming app. Fuck them to hell for merging just to cut this and other Warner media products. What idiots


They will still continue providing good shows on HBO Max. The issue was there was essentialy two studios producing content for regular HBO, the other for HBO Max. It didn't make much sense. So Zaslav decided it's gonna be all under one umbrella now. There is gonna be one streaming service providing scripted content and non-scripted/reality tv content.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *I read that they ended Scooby Doo for tax purposes, but saw no confirmation on Batgirl besides disrespectfully telling people it's unworthy of production. It's crazy that WB is run by a real life Devin Weston.*


That's what Warner needed. Too many mistakes, too many loss of money. The DCEU has been a mess for so long. Zaslav said from now on Warner will release movies they are proud of. I know many Marvel movies I would not have released on the big screen.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

IronMan8 said:


> Live sports = TV's only valuable asset moving forward
> 
> Silly to compare AEW with HBM Max original productions or whatever is going on here. It does mean something with regards to negotiating for a major bump in the deal, but beyond that this is being overblown by all the ustual suspects.
> 
> ...


WWE in some form or another is currently in business with 3 of the 5 major media conglomerates in the US. All of which are relationships that extend beyond the end of AEW's current deal. It leaves AEW in a tough spot when looking to negotiate rights. If move on from WBD it basically leaves Paramount as the only high money/wide clearance option available. Anything else would likely see money as well as clearance diminish neither being particularly good news for AEW if it were to come to that. Personally I think they'll still be with WBD. What the deal looks like is anyone's guess.

As for going to a streaming only that could be an option but one of the biggest drawbacks to "first run" streaming with regards to pro wrestling is the PPV Schedule. Most streaming is still "drop and binge" and even the shows that drop episode by episode they don't have a PPV schedule that TV content needs to consumed according to. It could work but it's a big gamble.


----------



## ShiningStar (Jun 20, 2016)

If you looked at what HBOMAX removed. A lot of them were just direct to video quality original films with both bad RT audience and critic scores and also poor viewership numbers. Granted I feel bad for anyone who worked on Scooby Doo or Batgirl because their work never were given a chance to succeed or fail with the public. But a lot of that has to do with our screwed up tax code that rewards a company for doing what they just did


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

deadcool said:


> Meltzer is wrong on certain things here. First of all, AEW's parent company is not WarnerMedia or WBD. AEW is a content provider at the end of the day to WBD.
> He's starting this speculation because of the Batgirl's movie cancellation.
> 
> I have friends who work for WBD. The story that I was told was that WBD execs watched Batgirl, and they realized that the movie had no prayer of making its money back much less earn a profit. This has nothing to do with TV (which is the area that AEW operates on). I like Meltzer's work but he is way off base sometimes, and this is one of those instances.
> ...


They are far more likely to drop an outside show like AEW than in house productions. Networks don't like blading and deathmatch wrestling. 

AEW ratings aren't even as good as TNA's were at this point. From 2005-2013 TNA regularly got between .8 and .9, and broke the 1.0 marker on more than few occasions with their first monday night impact episode getting a 1.5, and all but one of their monday night episodes getting above .7. AEW has never gotten gotten past .68, which was their debut. Their next highest was .53 for the debut of Danielson. 
TNA, which was not a well ran, well booked company, got better ratings in the key demo going head to head with Raw, on a lesser network than AEW gets unopposed. 

Stagnant ratings, and garbage BS that can, will, and has in the past drove away sponsors,

I would say that Dave is spot on. Networks already tend to scoff at wrestling. The only reason AEW got such a sweetheart TV deal to begin with was because Tony was friends with an executive that he and his father had previous dealings with. He's not there anymore and the new ones are gonna look at ratings, viewership, and content, and weigh the likelyhood of AEW being about to grow their audience and attract sponsors to their network. Someone showing them a tape of Nick Gage slicing Jericho open with a pizza cutter and explaining that it cost the network a lucrative deal with a major pizza chain could easily cost AEW their TV deal.


----------



## deadcool (May 4, 2006)

Leviticus said:


> They are far more likely to drop an outside show like AEW than in house productions. Networks don't like blading and deathmatch wrestling.
> 
> AEW ratings aren't even as good as TNA's were at this point. From 2005-2013 TNA regularly got between .8 and .9, and broke the 1.0 marker on more than few occasions with their first monday night impact episode getting a 1.5, and all but one of their monday night episodes getting above .7. AEW has never gotten gotten past .68, which was their debut. Their next highest was .53 for the debut of Danielson.
> TNA, which was not a well ran, well booked company, got better ratings in the key demo going head to head with Raw, on a lesser network than AEW gets unopposed.
> ...


First of all, you can't compare 2005-2013 TNA ratings to current era AEW ratings. The media landscape has changed drastically since then. Why don't you compare current TNA ratings with AEW's?

AEW does not have stagnant ratings. They are one of the best performing shows that WarnerMedia has. You should have watched WBD's investor presentation with Zaslav today. AEW was highlighted as one of their top performing shows on television. 

They are not doing as well as WWE, but WWE has a 30-40 year jump ahead of them. They will catch up eventually and beat WWE's a**. They already have a better television product than WWE and it's only a matter of time before the ratings start reflecting that. 

Networks don't "scoff at wrestling". They recognize that wrestling is one of the top performers on cable; a very impressive feat given the current media landscape and competition from streaming services, etc. 

Meltzer is just speculating, as are you. The TV deal is going to end next year and we will find out whether they get a better one or not.


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

deadcool said:


> First of all, you can't compare 2005-2013 TNA ratings to current era AEW ratings. The media landscape has changed drastically since then. Why don't you compare current TNA ratings with AEW's?
> 
> AEW does not have stagnant ratings. They are one of the best performing shows that WarnerMedia has. You should have watched WBD's investor presentation with Zaslav today. AEW was highlighted as one of their top performing shows on television.
> 
> ...


I compared them while both had major network deals that paid for production and major stars on their roster. TNA didn't go south until they lost their tv deal, but also never had the money and resources AEW does, and still got better rating even during their worst years under Spike.

They recognize WWE as a top performer. They love wrestling if it can get ratings and bring in sponsors , but wrestling in general turns sponsors away, especially when its overly bloody and fully of over gruesome violence. Thats why ECW never got any main stream support. Deathmatch wrestling drives sponsors away. Netsworks don't care about ratings as much as they care about maketability. AEW with a core audience that stabilizes their ratings and viewership fills their shows with things that turn off sponsors. And if TBS can't sell to sponsors, they don't care how a show does.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

One thing Meltzer has mentioned previously is the importance for AEW to show audience growth going into negotiations. It needs to be on an upward trend.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Saintpat said:


> One thing Meltzer has mentioned previously is the importance for AEW to show audience growth going into negotiations. It needs to be on an upward trend.


And it won't be, because they pander to fans of indie garbage that drives away casual fans. They have the same core audience they had in 2019. And fail to retain any new veiwers for more than a few weeks. 

An experienced booker willing to centralize the creative and put his foot down when it comes to bullshit COULD attract more fans but Tony is such a pussy mark afraid to hurt anyone's feelings that he will keep letting them do their endless spotfests, stupid comedy, and deathmatch garbage that only appeals to their core audience.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Leviticus said:


> And it won't be, because they pander to fans of indie garbage that drives away casual fans. They have the same core audience they had in 2019. And fail to retain any new veiwers for more than a few weeks.
> 
> An experienced booker willing to centralize the creative and put his foot down when it comes to bullshit COULD attract more fans but Tony is such a pussy mark afraid to hurt anyone's feelings that he will keep letting them do their endless spotfests, stupid comedy, and deathmatch garbage that only appeals to their core audience.


Seems like TK's managed to hurt your feelings


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## MrMeeseeks (Aug 6, 2020)

Geeee said:


> Seems like TK's managed to hurt your feelings


tony probably banged his mom and never called her back


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Geeee said:


> Seems like TK's managed to hurt your feelings


They already cost TBS one major sponsors with deathmatch garbage. Networks tend to not like that.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Leviticus said:


> They already cost TBS one major sponsors with deathmatch garbage. Networks tend to not like that.


So, TK hurt Domino's Pizza's feelings too. He's a serial feelings hurter!


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> That's what Warner needed. Too many mistakes, too many loss of money. The DCEU has been a mess for so long. Zaslav said from now on Warner will release movies they are proud of. I know many Marvel movies I would not have released on the big screen.


*Or, how about they stop making garbage films?! Why waste $90 million and then pull the plug at the last minute? At that point, you might as well try to recoup some of your losses and let the fans see it who want to see it if you think the movie is THAT bad.*


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## lagofala (Jun 22, 2016)

Depends on how much TK is willing to pay to subsidize AEW. To appeal to the new bosses, it seems like he needs to cater more to the mainstream, which isn't gonna sit well with the current fanbase. It is what it is.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Geeee said:


> So, TK hurt Domino's Pizza's feelings too. He's a serial feelings hurter!


He also costs TBS and Warner Media a lot of money. Major sponsors don't like garbage wrestling. Ratings don't matter if TBS can't use them to attract sponsors. Shows that sponsors don't wanna do business with get cancel even if they get decent ratings.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

The Legit Lioness said:


> *Or, how about they stop making garbage films?! Why waste $90 million and then pull the plug at the last minute? At that point, you might as well try to recoup some of your losses and let the fans see it who want to see it if you think the movie is THAT bad.*


That's what the new regime is trying to fix, bro. The new Boss has been there for about a year. Give him time. He looked at the movie and thought it was trash and chose to not release it. All these crap movies were made by the previous regime. It's like a new booker coming in to replace Tony Khan, there's gonna be a lot of crap to get rid of before it gets good.


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## Heath V (Apr 9, 2014)

TheDraw said:


> This feels like the downgrade TNA had when they left SPIKE and went to DIscovery. Ratings and viewership will take a huge dip from where they currently are. It's mostly likely all downhill from here.
> 
> This is where hiring bland indy talent that don't have the look or mic skills to attract casuals bite AEW in the ass. These guys get way too much exposure. Nobody cares outside of hardcore fans.


People can roll their eyes all they want, what you said is a fact.


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## The real Axel (May 20, 2006)

Dr. Middy said:


> I'm genuinely curious why 16 people want them to be cancelled basically.
> 
> You'd just be wishing for wrestling to further be irrelevant, even if you don't like AEW.


Mainly to see the meltdown of the AEW diehards, maybe they'll somehow spin it into a positive like they always do  

Also seeing MJF at Wrestlemania would be great.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Saintpat said:


> One thing Meltzer has mentioned previously is the importance for AEW to show audience growth going into negotiations. It needs to be on an upward trend.


From a shrinking total pool of viewers, AEW gets consistent viewership.

AEW has therefore increased their share of the viewership pie

That makes them more valuable

Is this not obvious?


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

I would not want AEW


IronMan8 said:


> From a shrinking total pool of viewers, AEW gets consistent viewership.
> 
> AEW has therefore increased their share of the viewership pie
> 
> ...


tbf they have decreased by 100k or so since September last year.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Geert Wilders said:


> I would not want AEW
> 
> tbf they have decreased by 100k or so since September last year.


But they have a larger piece of the pie


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## arch.unleash (Aug 31, 2016)

Don't worry, they'll bring some CZW guys and more ROH charismatic fucks and some more TITLES and barbed wires and they'll land a deal with Fox.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

arch.unleash said:


> Don't worry, they'll bring some CZW guys and more ROH charismatic fucks and some more TITLES and barbed wires and they'll land a deal with Fox.


You make this sound like a bad thing!

MJF, Austin Theory (made his debut there), AJ Styles, Brodie Lee, CM Punk, Moxley, Shelley, Sabin, Claudio, Kingston, Briscoes, Owens, Zayn, Riddle and Lethal all worked for or appeared in CZW.

Ditto ex-ROH, who make up parts of the backbones in WWE (AJ, Rollins, Owens, Zayn) and AEW (Punk, Danielson, Omega, Hangman).

Two promotions that have helped develop and feed stars to the majors.


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Why you all so sensitive about people wanting AEW to go out of bussiness.

This is a bussiness, you get what you work for, if Dynamite ever gets cancelled is because they got too many people getting money they didn't deserve.

And because Tony is a fucking moron who mixed personal feelings and fanatism with bussines.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> Why you all so sensitive about people wanting AEW to go out of bussiness.
> 
> This is a bussiness, you get what you work for, if Dynamite ever gets cancelled is because they got too many people getting money they didn't deserve.
> 
> And because Tony is a fucking moron who mixed personal feelings and fanatism with bussines.


why would anyone want a company that’s not personally affecting them to go out of business? Not even WWE want AEW to go out of business.

It’s another promotion that has opened more job opportunities. The wrestling industry is very healthy rn.


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## CaféDeChampion (Sep 27, 2021)

The situation is simple, WBD has a Nick Khan on board. Remember when everybody cried over Strowman and Fiend getting fired? Turns out they were over-expensive, under-delivering wrestlers and the WWE is far better with all of the cuts that have been running around.

AEW want their spot? They will have a deal but it won't be the one they were hoping for. An upgrade for sure but they are not getting anything close to what the WWE is getting, especially because of the debacle of Rampage, the fact they hit their audience cap and the inability to use other channels as leverage.


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## FrankieDs316 (12 mo ago)

I still think in the end they will get some sort of tv deal somewhere. But it won’t be as nearly as good as they want.


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## MIZizAwesome (Apr 6, 2012)

Goodnight AEW! Would love to see just for the lols and the wrestlers that shit talk WWE after leaving , to come crawling back


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

IronMan8 said:


> From a shrinking total pool of viewers, AEW gets consistent viewership.
> 
> AEW has therefore increased their share of the viewership pie
> 
> ...


Weren’t they routinely doing more than 1M viewers a year ago? And higher demo numbers, right? That’s a loss.

If AEW wants more money, it doesn’t enhance its bargaining position by not gaining new viewers.


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## Boldgerg (Apr 2, 2017)

MIZizAwesome said:


> Goodnight AEW! Would love to see just for the lols and the wrestlers that shit talk WWE after leaving , to come crawling back


So you're just a pathetic person then, really?

Cool.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Saintpat said:


> Weren’t they routinely doing more than 1M viewers a year ago? And higher demo numbers, right? That’s a loss.
> 
> If AEW wants more money, it doesn’t enhance its bargaining position by not gaining new viewers.


Again, they have a larger percentage of the pie today

That makes them more valuable in a shrinking market

The only question is the extent of growth

You can cherry pick their best couple of months from 2021, but you could also draw a promising graph over a longer time period too. Year-on-year growth over 3 years is nothing but a positive factor. Only wrestling fans would think that's a negative.

You could also do a graph as a percentage of the pie they attract compared to every other comparable TV show and AEW would look even more promising. 

The only negative in this topic is Meltzer's speculation about structural changes at the company expected to offer them their best deal - this has nothing to do with AEW's performance, yet the statisticians in here think it somehow reflects poorly on AEW


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

Geert Wilders said:


> why would anyone want a company that’s not personally affecting them to go out of business? Not even WWE want AEW to go out of business.
> 
> It’s another promotion that has opened more job opportunities. The wrestling industry is very healthy rn.


A person would want that purely because of schadenfreude and nothing else. In the grand scheme of things, AEW being around does nothing to hurt the wrestling industry in anyway, so the people who only want it to die are just looking to bask in the disappointment of the fans. Which makes them not worth debating with. They aren't interested in a discussion about the show. They want AEW to burn down so they can stroke themselves and say "see I knew it." I personally feel it is a sad way of using time, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.

The other thing is, there are people here who have a rather critical or negative view of AEW, but do not engage in the above behavior. It is important to distinguish between the two. This poll is certainly helping figuring out who fits what category.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Prized Fighter said:


> A person would want that purely because of schadenfreude and nothing else. In the grand scheme of things, AEW being around does nothing to hurt the wrestling industry in anyway, so the people who only want it to die are just looking to bask in the disappointment of the fans. Which makes them not worth debating with. They aren't interested in a discussion about the show. They want AEW to burn down so they can stroke themselves and say "see I knew it." I personally feel it is a sad way of using time, but different strokes for different folks, I guess.
> 
> The other thing is, there are people here who have a rather critical or negative view of AEW, but do not engage in the above behavior. It is important to distinguish between the two. This poll is certainly helping figuring out who fits what category.


Really good post here.


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

Geert Wilders said:


> why would anyone want a company that’s not personally affecting them to go out of business? Not even WWE want AEW to go out of business.
> 
> It’s another promotion that has opened more job opportunities. The wrestling industry is very healthy rn.


I don't AEW to get out of bussiness, but I want people to learn, I want promoters to learn, owners, even wrestlers.

You just can't get in this bussiness and do whatever the fuck you want, just wrestling does not sell, you need something else and you need to cater all kind of fans, no just workate marks.

If AEW ends up failing miserably is because their owners and the people working there weren't taking it seriously as a bussiness, so you can't blame anybody but themselves.

Maybe it will be taken as a lesson for the next kid backed up by its rich daddy who decides to invest on a wrestling bussiness.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Soul Rex said:


> I don't AEW to get out of bussiness, but I want people to learn, I want promoters to learn, owners, even wrestlers.
> 
> You just can't get in this bussiness and do whatever the fuck you want, just wrestling does not sell, you need something else and you need to cater all kind of fans, no just workate marks.
> 
> ...


Agree. But that’s very different to wanting a company to fail.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Warner Bros. Discovery Takes $825M Write-Down on Content Following High-Profile DC Axings and TBS-TNT Cancellations


The write-downs likely include shows like 'Chad' and 'The Last O.G.,' as well as projects like DC's 'Wonder Twins,' with 'Batgirl' likely to be written down next quarter.




www.hollywoodreporter.com





WBD have cut $825m already since the merger. There's a bit here on TNT and TBS:

_The writedown likely includes a number of programs that were axed at TBS and TNT, and also costs related to CNN+, the ill-fated streaming service that WBD shut down just a few weeks after it launched. The filing also noted that the company had $208 million in employee termination costs in the quarter.

TBS and TNT have significantly cut back on programming since the merger, instead leaning into sports and unscripted fare. TBS cut comedies Chad (which had already completed production on its season), Full Frontal with Samantha Bee, and Tracy Morgan’s The Last O.G., while TNT announced an end date for Snowpiercer. Scripted development at both networks was paused, and the company opted to not renew its deal to air the SAG Awards._


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

3venflow said:


> Warner Bros. Discovery Takes $825M Write-Down on Content Following High-Profile DC Axings and TBS-TNT Cancellations
> 
> 
> The write-downs likely include shows like 'Chad' and 'The Last O.G.,' as well as projects like DC's 'Wonder Twins,' with 'Batgirl' likely to be written down next quarter.
> ...


Those cuts are against $43B in debt taken on with the acquisition of WB by Discovery.

So basically not a major impact.

This is only the beginning. They have to find a way over time (and much of that debt is long-term) to balance that.

When you’re billions of dollars in the hole, you have to cut costs and not shell out more in hopes for bigger returns. A lot of those cuts so far have just been in duplication of services — you don’t need to keep all the old WB managers when you have Discovery managers doing the same jobs, etc., but that’s not going to balance out that enormous debt.

There’s also a mid-term component here. Current NBA rights expire at the end of the 2025 season. They’re going to want to keep those, and they’re only going to be more expensive in the next go-round. THAT is the company’s No. 1 priority — not losing the NBA — and they’re going to have to pay dearly to keep it. That means they need to clear the decks of a lot of expensive stuff to be able to bid competitively or they will lose the NBA … which they absolutely cannot afford to lose.


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

IronMan8 said:


> Again, they have a larger percentage of the pie today
> 
> That makes them more valuable in a shrinking market
> 
> ...


Exactly how much year over year has the cable TV audience shrunk as compared to AEW’s loss of viewers? Like from one year ago vs. now, how much is cable down? Because I’ve been reading that the cord-cutting trend has pretty much slowed to a halt and even rebounded a bit.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Saintpat said:


> Exactly how much year over year has the cable TV audience shrunk as compared to AEW’s loss of viewers? Like from one year ago vs. now, how much is cable down? Because I’ve been reading that the cord-cutting trend has pretty much slowed to a halt and even rebounded a bit.


Cable lost another 6.9% of its subscribers in Q1 2022 and was down to 41.661 million.



https://www.nexttv.com/news/cord-cutting-worsens-for-linear-video-in-q1-with-21-million-subs-lost



Major cable providers collectively lost 6 million subscribers between 2019 and 2022. 2019 is the year Dynamite started, so 2020 and 2021 would be roughly minus 12 million subscribers, plus whatever late 2019 and Q1 + Q2 2022 (possibly 4m+?) combined lost.









Lastest Cord Cutting Statistics, Facts and Trends [2023 edition]


Cord-cutting (ditching traditional cable and satellite TV) is exploding. We take a detailed look at the top cord cutting statistics.




www.comparitech.com





It staggers me how people deem 'just over 1 million' (which didn't even happen all the time anyway, just during a hot two-month spell) to '900-plus thousand' as some major drop for AEW considering the context of cable's decline. People just want to ignore this, like when they compare AEW to TNA's ratings in a completely different world a decade-plus ago.

As I said in another thread, AEW is actually up year-on-year again (+65,000 per episode) in the P2+ metric, but that figure is heavily skewed by last year's NBA playoff preemptions which massacred the average viewership for 2021.

AEW is holding up very well IMO. It is very consistent and stable. WWE also seems to have bottomed out and stopped losing viewers as dramatically as before.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Saintpat said:


> Weren’t they routinely doing more than 1M viewers a year ago? And higher demo numbers, right? That’s a loss.
> 
> If AEW wants more money, it doesn’t enhance its bargaining position by not gaining new viewers.



They've never gotten over a .68 in the ratings. That means that .68% of the population in all markets combined watched the show. 

TNA, at the same time in their existence was getting .80 to 1.0 ratings. TNA was also a very badly ran company that didn't have the money or production that AEW has , but still got better rating on a less watched network.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Saintpat said:


> Exactly how much year over year has the cable TV audience shrunk as compared to AEW’s loss of viewers? Like from one year ago vs. now, how much is cable down? Because I’ve been reading that the cord-cutting trend has pretty much slowed to a halt and even rebounded a bit.


The total cable audience has dropped by about 20% since AEW started

AEW's long-term averages have consistently risen during this time 

That's growth


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Leviticus said:


> They've never gotten over a .68 in the ratings. That means that .68% of the population in all markets combined watched the show.
> 
> TNA, at the same time in their existence was getting .80 to 1.0 ratings. TNA was also a very badly ran company that didn't have the money or production that AEW has , but still got better rating on a less watched network.


Nothing else to do back then, so you'll get higher percentages of people watching the same thing.

Duh.

There's literally 1000's of channels to watch now - and most are on demand, so you can watch stuff anytime.

That change in technology significantly dilutes the rating of everything 

Not to mention people choosing other forms of entertainment over TV these days, like video games and just surfing the internet. A lot of young people don't even buy TV's anymore, we watch stuff on our devices. 

Even the older audience has figured out streaming now (more people subscribe to streaming than cable) 

Do you understand these basic points or are you trolling?


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## Saintpat (Dec 18, 2013)

IronMan8 said:


> The total cable audience has dropped by about 20% since AEW started
> 
> AEW's long-term averages have consistently risen during this time
> 
> That's growth


No, what the NBA has done is growth. Like actually adding viewers.

‘You’re losing viewers at a slowish rate’ is not growth.


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## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

Saintpat said:


> No, what the NBA has done is growth. Like actually adding viewers.
> 
> ‘You’re losing viewers at a slowish rate’ is not growth.


AEW's average viewers has increased every year since they started


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

Saintpat said:


> No, what the NBA has done is growth. Like actually adding viewers.
> 
> ‘You’re losing viewers at a slowish rate’ is not growth.


NBA viewership is way down. 









Even When Games Matter, NBA Finals Ratings Continue To Suck


Taking a greater step back than Draymond Green this NBA Finals series are the TV ratings, which just came in for Game 5 between the Golden State Warriors




www.outkick.com


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Some easy to read numbers. I think that top chart underestimated cable's decline back in 2020ish.


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## g3rmany.turtle (6 mo ago)

They could always air on WWE Network. With Vince gone, why not? It would give AEW a much larger audience. I doubt that would ever happen, but it could certainly be an option if it had to be.


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## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

So 22 people are miserable enough to wish failure upon a company they could easily avoid being confronted with? Pitiful creatures...


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## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

Kopros_The_Great said:


> So 22 people are miserable enough to wish failure upon a company they could easily avoid being confronted with? Pitiful creatures...


There are a couple of names that are actually pretty surprising. The rest though, no so much. Just scumbags in general.


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## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Yep. I said this was coming.


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