# Is CM Punk a draw or not?



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

I've noticed that Raw's ratings have gone down in the weeks following CM Punk's return. There are many on this forum that now say CM Punk is what John Cena said he was - a one hit wonder. The claim is that while CM Punk is very popular with the male and IWC crowd, and is currently matching Cena in merchandise sales, he is not the ratings draw many thought he would be, and the drop in the ratings is due to too much focus being on him.

Thoughts? Is Punk a ratings draw - why or why not?


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Like I always say about ratings. We, the wrestling community, are not in the internal experience to know how the ratings affect WWE and their shows and ratings aren't true detectors of a show failing. That is why you have all these shows debuting in the fall feared of being cancelled because networks don't take the patience to let the show expand through at least one season to find an audience. This Punk angle is going through the same thing and will be an almost year long storyline, ending at Mania with Trips next year. WWE doesn't need to listen to those people who look at a 3.0 and say WWE should be worried and that Punk can't draw. That is false. WWE, itself, is a global drawing powerhouse. You look into other things such as merchandise sales, live events, and gate revenue to determine who is hot right now in WWE and who isn't and Punk is definitely white hot. Anyone saying otherwise is hating and I'm not even trying to start a flame war (even though we know that's inevitable) but facts are facts.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

of course not.


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## domericon (Aug 4, 2011)

Well, right now, i dont think he is.
Its all too fresh and i dont get how people jump to conclusion after this short amount of time.
Its not like Austin or the Rock became mega draws in the span of two months.
Punk and the WWE need time, but at least they try now.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

No, like i said, you guys need to realize that to the casual fan, Punk is just a skinny smartass that talk about big names like Rock, he's nothing to them.
out of the "IWC" world people don't care about this average looking guy on a wrestling show.
he need to change his attitude and then, maybe he would attract viewers. now? he's just a smartass that talk about things that only a small minority cares about, his fanbase, internet fans.


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## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

Yes, because I watch RAW after what he did. He is drawing me.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

lol. I hate this ratings argument.


We don't know how many people tune into which segment. For all we know, CM Punk brings in a lot of people, and during the rest of the show people tune out. Only WWE know this. If Punk doesn't draw, he'll go back to the midcard. Ratings is IWC's obsession but we don't know shit.

and like winning said, it's not only about ratings.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

I find it funny that Rock fans are calling Punk a smartass. *Rock* fans.


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## THNC (Oct 3, 2008)

Winning™ said:


> I find it funny that Rock fans are calling Punk a smartass. *Rock* fans.


Yeah but Rock isn't skinny.You forgot that part...


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## Stinger Fan (Jun 21, 2006)

No matter who's in the main event or whos the champion the seats will always be full. Its not that a guy can't draw its the company that draws. We can make assumptions all day long but numbers don't lie in terms of ratings. They're virtually the same for everyone , merchandise sales are more of a determining factor of who "draws" but we don't know 100% those numbers either


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## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

This is now a "The Rock" discussion thread. Record timing.


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## What_A_Maneuver! (Aug 4, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> No, like i said, you guys need to realize that to the casual fan, Punk is just a skinny smartass that talk about big names like Rock, he's nothing to them.
> out of the "IWC" world people don't care about this average looking guy on a wrestling show.
> he need to change his attitude and then, maybe he would attract viewers. now? he's just a smartass that talk about things that only a small minority cares about, his fanbase, internet fans.


Oh right. So the thousands of different people that chant 'CM PUNK! CM PUNK! CM PUNK!' every week on RAW are all part of the minority that is the IWC? Right...


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

THNC said:


> Yeah but Rock isn't skinny.You forgot that part...


So the fuck what? That wasn't my point. Rock fans are calling Punk a smartass when Rock was one of the biggest smartasses (heel or face) in the company.


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Yes. Those who believe otherwise are Punk haters butthurt that their favorites, be it Truth, Miz or whomever, are not in Punk's position. Punk and Cena are the two most popular wrestlers in the WWE right now.


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## GCA-FF (Jul 26, 2011)

The CM Punk haters are voting no.


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## TheGreatOne11 (Jul 11, 2011)

At the moment he is one of the only reasons I watch. It remains to be seen whether he still interests me after this feud is done with


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

I don't hate, I'm honest.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Yes. Those who believe otherwise are Punk haters butthurt that their favorites, be it Truth, Miz or whomever, are not in Punk's position. Punk and Cena are the two most popular wrestlers in the WWE right now.


when Miz and Truth were the focus of the show with Cena, they never ones went below 3.0. So far Punk has had 2.4, 2.9 and another 2.9 this week. He's had plenty of segments but yet ratings have been the lowest this years.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

2.4? When? That July 4th episode? Wow.


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## What_A_Maneuver! (Aug 4, 2011)

domericon said:


> Well, right now, i dont think he is.
> Its all too fresh and i dont get how people jump to conclusion after this short amount of time.
> Its not like Austin or the Rock became mega draws in the span of two months.
> Punk and the WWE need time, but at least they try now.


Exactly. Here's a fun fact. There was 2 years between the Austin 3:16 speach and the time he won his first WWE Championship. If you say that CM Punks worked shoot is the equivalent to the 3:16 promo then we've got a pretty long time until we can start judging this fairly.


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## CMojicaAce (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm sure there are many people that watch raw SOLELY for Punk (myself included). He is drawing them to view raw. Therefore, he is a draw, whether you like it or not.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> 2.4? When? That July 4th episode? Wow.


and the 2 2.9s?


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## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Of course he isn't. If ratings are going down (or even staying the same) since he started dominating the main storyline, how can you say he is a draw? Who is he drawing in? In order to be a draw you have to attract new viewers.

I bet if CM Punk left the WWE tomorrow the ratings for Raw wouldn't change. It would make sense that they would be what they were before his angle started (which is a bit more than now). How can he be a draw then?


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## hazuki (Aug 3, 2006)

Not yet.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

What_A_Maneuver! said:


> Exactly. Here's a fun fact. There was 2 years between the Austin 3:16 speach and the time he won his first WWE Championship. *If you say that CM Punks worked shoot is the equivalent to the 3:16 promo then we've got a pretty long time until we can start judging this fairly.*












Besides that, the only people that say that this "worked shoot" is even close to the Austin 3:16 impact are just a delusional Punk marks.


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## RKO696 (Apr 12, 2010)

Ratings going has nothing with CM Punk. It's all Orton's fault


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Money In The Bank 2010 buyrate: 165,000

Money In The Bank 2011 buyrate: 363,000

You tell me.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> and the 2 2.9s?


So what? They are in the 5-4 million range pretty much the normal realm for wrestling now, anyways) of viewers EACH week. With how the current climate of wrestling is, that is quite astonishing.


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## Smackdownfan777 (Oct 28, 2009)

He hasn't drawn me to raw so...., well it's probably because I do not care about punk in the slitest. Don't care for him at all.

p.s. This is going to be good. punk marks are gonna be mad.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Money In The Bank 2010 buyrate: 165,000
> 
> *Money In The Bank 2011 buyrate: 363,000*
> 
> You tell me.


Source?


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## visko (Mar 17, 2009)

mmmmmmmmmm.........eeehhhh...........rrrggggg.....

Aren't Cena and Triple H as big of a part of this storyline as Punk? Aren't they in the key segments of Raw? Aren't they promoted and on TV a lot?

Yes, they are.

So, if you say the ratings are that bad, and by tour logic CM Punk is not a drow... then neither HHH nor Cena are draws!

Go how I hate this stupid talk about draws, ratings...



> I bet if CM Punk left the WWE tomorrow the ratings for Raw wouldn't change.


If Cena and Trips leave tomorrow, the ratings will be the same either.


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## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Just asked my brother Tom why he watches Raw, he said Cm Punk is the main reason. He's eleven years old who still thinks wrestling is real. So for those who say he only appeals to IWC smarks, your wrong


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## P.Smith (Jan 24, 2010)

Obviously one thread of back and forth repetitive bickering wasn't enough, another one had to be made.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Money In The Bank 2010 buyrate: 165,000
> 
> Money In The Bank 2011 buyrate: 363,000
> 
> You tell me.


link?


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## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> Money In The Bank 2010 buyrate: 165,000
> 
> Money In The Bank 2011 buyrate: 363,000
> 
> You tell me.


Not sure where those numbers come from...I thought MITB 2011 was only up 20% from 2010. We should also wait for more than one ppv before saying he is a ppv draw. let's see how summerslam does.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

I like how people ask for source or links as if they don't know how to use and search on the fucking Internet.


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## Sin_Bias (Aug 9, 2011)

He's got me interested in raw on a weekly basis again. It just sucks that it happened right when football season started up.


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## Theff (Aug 1, 2011)

Ide have to say, Kinda? lol I mean he draws me. Does he draw people like others in the past. no.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Rock316AE said:


> Source?


It's been reported by Wrestling Observer that MITB sold 200,000 more buys than last year's.

I find it very funny though, you question the validity of this year's buyrate alone. So aren't you concerned that I could be lying about last year's as well?


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> I like how people ask for source or links as if they don't know how to use and search on the fucking Internet.


It doesn't exist, because it's not true...


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## metr0man (Mar 17, 2011)

Based on buyrates, yes

Based on ratings, no

I'd argue week to week though, Cena, HHH, and now ADR and Nash are just as much of the storyline these days. 

Personally I don't care. My favorite wrestler is Jericho, and he never achieved being a true draw.


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

jblvdx said:


> Just asked my brother Tom why he watches Raw, he said Cm Punk is the main reason. He's eleven years old who still thinks wrestling is real. So for those who say he only appeals to IWC smarks, your wrong


No doubt. This is really just a pathetic excuse. Because I'm pretty sure the thousands of men, women _and_ children chanting, cheering and popping for Punk each week are all "IWC smarks".


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## Myst (Aug 9, 2004)

Just based on the live crowds from the past few shows, it's hard to say he isn't a draw. Those white "Best in the World" shirts are everywhere. The ratings faltering/not seeing much growth is a culmination of a lot of things, CM Punk is not the only reason it isn't where the IWC thinks it should be at. I don't really have much of a problem with the "low" ratings, WWE probably feels the same way as long as CM Punk's shirts continue selling like the way they are.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

I don't understand why that concerns anybody on here. 

I mean we like to joke and play competition on here: oh my guy scored higher ratings than your guy that means he's better, or also: ratings go down when your guy is champion he sucks people aren't interested in him, but truthfully, none of us should give a fuck.

Things like Randy Orton being world champion. This is the only time you'll see me admit this, but it doesn't matter if ratings go down a decimal or two when he's champion. The reactions he gets from the fans tell more than enough, he's doing his job as a babyface entertaining the fans (now how anyone can find him entertaining is beyond me, but for another discussion.)

Why do you care if CM Punk is a ratings draw? Do you sit through RAW every week going 'oh ahaha this is so entertaining, but I wonder how many viewers they'll lose after this advert break?' I honestly do not understand this mindset, barring the numbers nosediving to the point of possible cancellation (which hasn't happen and won't for a long time.) CM Punk, matter of fact the entire RAW roster and above all the creative team, have been absolutely brilliant this summer. It would be nice if it brought some more fans in in the long run, but I only care because it means more money for the company that's bringing me this wonderful entertainment every week.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

IMO buyrates are a much better sign of someone's drawing ability than ratings. In 2011 you can DVR RAW, you can watch in Youtube, stream it etc.

But if a person can fucking double the buyrate of a PPV when compared with lasts year's, he's a draw. Al Snow has said that the drawing power of someone is based on his ability to increase attendance. Which Punk did. 

Jesus Christ, you 2011-ers are so difficult to have a conversation with. Trying to sound like some big shits by replying "Source?" to everything.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> It's been reported by Wrestling Observer that MITB sold 200,000 more buys than last year's.
> 
> I find it very funny though, you question the validity of this year's buyrate alone. So aren't you concerned that I could be lying about last year's as well?


all I read was it was up 20% from last year. I don't know why you can't just post a link if you're so positive. If it's true, I'll give him his props and keep it moving.


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## CMojicaAce (Jun 28, 2011)

Can someone explain to me what exactly the IWC is? Is it just wrestling fans that use the internet? Because if it is, why cant those fans be considered "casual" fans?


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## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> It's been reported by Wrestling Observer that MITB sold 200,000 more buys than last year's.
> 
> I find it very funny though, you question the validity of this year's buyrate alone. So aren't you concerned that I could be lying about last year's as well?


I think it was up 20% which makes it to around 200K sold


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

sharkboy22 said:


> IMO buyrates are a much better sign of someone's drawing ability than ratings. In 2011 you can DVR RAW, you can watch in Youtube, stream it etc.
> 
> But if a person can fucking double the buyrate of a PPV when compared with lasts year's, he's a draw. Al Snow has said that the drawing power of someone is based on his ability to increase attendance. Which Punk did.
> 
> Jesus Christ, you 2011-ers are so difficult to have a conversation with. Trying to sound like some big shits by replying "Source?" to everything.


fpalm


> With regards to the MITB buyrate Vince stated at the conference call that they are estimating a 20% increase from the previous year which would mean around 197,000 buys.
> 
> Credit:F4WOnline


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

His merchandise is selling like hell, so I'd say yes.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> It doesn't exist, because it's not true...


Did you search on the Internet or no?


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

> With regards to the MITB buyrate Vince stated at the conference call that they are estimating a 20% increase from the previous year which would mean around 197,000 buys.
> 
> Credit:F4WOnline


smh @ sharkboy having to lie to defend Punk. Or maybe his all his math teachers need to be fired.


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## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, I was wrong about the buyrates doubling. I remember there was a time though when it was reported Punk doubled the MITB buyrate but now I guess it's been confirmed that Punk only sold 30k more buys.

Nonetheless, 30k more than last year.


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## Nuglet McJunior (Jan 17, 2011)

Lol Punk marks have to make up buyrates just to make themselves feel better. Such a sad fanbase, and I like Punk.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> Did you search on the Internet or no?


if it really did those numbers, you would be one of the first people post it here along with other one of Punk's brigade.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Nuglet McJunior said:


> Lol Punk marks have to make up buyrates just to make themselves feel better. Such a sad fanbase, and I like Punk.


^


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## just1988 (Jun 15, 2009)

Yeah of course he is a draw, he got so many people to watch Raw and MITB after his promos that you'd be a fool to try and claim that he wasn't a draw. I'm glad that he's doing so well because it's evident that the WWE are continuing to feature him in good storylines due to his drawing success and as a fan of his this means I get more quality CM Punk action than I had been getting before all this kicked off.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> if it really did those numbers, you would be one of the first people post it here along with other one of Punk's brigade.


Actually, no I wouldn't because I'd like to wait for the official release of the thing rather than just flaming a topic with no use whatsoever.

I'll say this, though. MITB 2011 will and should do a better buyrate than last year. No way it does lower or slightly higher than last year.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Nuglet McJunior said:


> Lol Punk marks have to make up buyrates just to make themselves feel better. Such a sad fanbase, and I like Punk.


They're like Cowboys fans

"w...w.....we were 2 and 14 last season, b...b....but we were just getting use to the new field, Rome was built in 2 days, we shall rise"


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## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

It appears everyones definition of the term 'draw' is different. Does John Cena continue to bring in new viewers, or did he become the guy that the current fans and their kids latched on to? Does Triple H continue to draw in new viewers? If the answer is no, does that mean he isn't a draw? When The Rock shows up and the ratings see a small spike, do those 'new' viewers stick around or leave when he does? Has CM Punk's overall popularity increased in the past two months? Is he making the company money through merchandise like Cena, Rock, Orton, Miz, etc? 

CM Punk's character is evolving and is obviously the most talked about Star on the roster, whether its negative or otherwise. He's at the spot he deserves to be in and will continue to shine over time. Will he draw in millions of new viewers? Probably not, but he is keeping the current crop interested, which is a good start. 

It's such a flawed perspective to compare today's ratings to the numbers pro wrestling got 10+ years ago. It's so much harder today to gain new viewers than it was for WWF/WCW to steal viewers away from eachother when the total viewership was triple what it is today. I think the steady decline in ratings over the years proves that WWE needs to focus on keeping the viewers they already have, then maybe they can begin to expand.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> Actually, no I wouldn't because I'd like to wait for the official release of the thing rather than just flaming a topic with no use whatsoever.
> 
> I'll say this, though. MITB 2011 will and should do a better buyrate than last year. No way it does lower or slightly higher than last year.


of course it will be better than last year. People saw last year how great mitb was last year, so they wanted to see for themselves. MITB matches were one of the best things about WM.


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## Nuski (Apr 5, 2010)

WHY DOES IT MATTER. That is for the workers in the WWE to care about, not us.


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## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Lil' Jimmy said:


> WHY DOES IT MATTER. That is for the workers in the WWE to care about, not us.


This. This. This.


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## Theproof (Apr 9, 2009)

jblvdx said:


> Just asked my brother Tom why he watches Raw, he said Cm Punk is the main reason. He's eleven years old who still thinks wrestling is real. So for those who say he only appeals to IWC smarks, your wrong


Are you serious?


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> of course it will be better than last year. People saw last year how great mitb was last year, so they wanted to see for themselves. MITB matches were one of the best things about WM.


You are deluded if you think that's the reason.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

:lmao


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## Nuglet McJunior (Jan 17, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> You are deluded if you think that's the reason.


Well the PPV is called Money in the Bank, not CM Punk in the Bank or whatever the hell you want to call it.


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## Smackdownfan777 (Oct 28, 2009)

I have to say all who are saying "punk sells lots of t-shirts" well that's all well and good but WWE isn't in the t-shirt selling buisness. It is a factor but WWE is a wrestling company, just saying.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

ER = 209,000
MITB = 197,000

Morrison can bring a bigger buyrate than Punk, without all the hype.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Nuglet McJunior said:


> Well the PPV is called Money in the Bank, not CM Punk in the Bank or whatever the hell you want to call it.


Don't be naive. The PPV is Money In The Bank but are you seriously telling me that those matches were what was getting mainstream attention to the PPV?


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Smackdownfan777 said:


> I have to say all who are saying "punk sells lots of t-shirts" well that's all well and good but WWE isn't in the t-shirt selling buisness. It is a factor but WWE is a wrestling company, just saying.


Actually they are. Merchandise has long been cited as the reason the WWE won't turn Cena heel, because they'll supposedly lose sales. WWE makes truckloads of money on merchandise.


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## Smackdownfan777 (Oct 28, 2009)

Winning™ said:


> Don't be naive. The PPV is Money In The Bank but are you seriously telling me that those matches were what was getting mainstream attention to the PPV?


um, I would assume.


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## Smackdownfan777 (Oct 28, 2009)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Actually they are. Merchandise has long been cited as the reason the WWE won't turn Cena heel, because they'll supposedly lose sales.


They sell shirts because a person likes that WRESTLER. So them selling any shirt is because of the wrestling.


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## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Rock316AE said:


> ER = 209,000
> MITB = 197,000
> 
> Morrison can bring a bigger buyrate than Punk, without all the hype.


MITB 2010 = *189,000*
MITB 2011 = 189,000 + 20%(37,800) = *226,800*
ER 2011 = *209,000*

MITB 2011 > ER 2011 by 17,800.

Remember these are all the _estimated_ numbers. The final numbers have still not been released.


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## Mattyb2266 (Jun 28, 2011)

It's amazing that people are really judging by PPV buyrates and ratings in the year 2011. How many of you people criticizing buyrates stream PPV's for free? The fact that MITB this year went up at all is a very good sign considering the fact that people can get it for free all over the internet.


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## Jp_sTuNNa (Jun 27, 2011)

Rock marks really love to hate on Punk, its unreal. I dont care what you say but the only reason the WWE is interesting right now is all due to Punk.


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## BigWillie54 (Feb 1, 2011)

visko said:


> mmmmmmmmmm.........eeehhhh...........rrrggggg.....
> 
> Aren't Cena and Triple H as big of a part of this storyline as Punk? Aren't they in the key segments of Raw? Aren't they promoted and on TV a lot?
> 
> ...


sorry but thats not true at all.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Smackdownfan777 said:


> They sell shirts because a person likes that WRESTLER. So them selling any shirt is because of the wrestling.


Yes, they sell shirts because people are a fan of that particular WWE superstar. That's my point.

I hope you're not saying that the in ring wrestling is the direct cause of the sales, though, because that's just ridiculous. I don't see any Daniel Bryan merchandise in the top ten.


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## vintage jorts (Aug 9, 2011)

It's too early for this question, he's only 2 months into his anointing.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Smackdownfan777 said:


> um, I would assume.


No. Not this year, anyways. Cena and Punk is the main reason why people tuned in to actually buy the show. It was getting hype from mainstream media, mainly by Punk, and was the biggest built WWE Championship in a while. The MITB matches may have added the extra incentive to buy the show but they weren't the main reasons why.


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## rawesjericho (Sep 9, 2008)

BigWillie54 said:


> sorry but thats not true at all.


triple h has never been a big draw, him leaving or staying wont have any impact on the ratings.


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## Stad (Apr 6, 2011)

Could care less, i am enjoying the product. Have fun arguing over something no one is gonna win.


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## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Bottom Line: Is CM Punk a top draw?

To be determined, but a great start nonetheless!


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

:lmao The MITB matches being the reason the buyrate is higher than last year's. Holy fuck, I've had just about enough of the trolls.


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## Smackdownfan777 (Oct 28, 2009)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Yes, they sell shirts because people are a fan of that particular WWE superstar. That's my point.
> 
> I hope you're not saying that the in ring wrestling is the direct cause of the sales, though, because that's just ridiculous. I don't see any Daniel Bryan merchandise in the top ten.


No not saying that all I'm saying is t-shirts is not the main income of WWE so bringing it up is useless.


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## fulcizombie (Jul 17, 2011)

I thin he is. He is selling a ton of merchandise and it seems that buyrate of the PPVs he's been the main focus has been good , though we'll have to wait for official results . I mean what more does the face of the company in the last 5 years has to offer ??


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## faceface (Dec 15, 2010)

Smackdownfan777 said:


> No not saying that all I'm saying is t-shirts is not the main income of WWE so bringing it up is useless.


Ah, they should stop selling them then.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> His merchandise is selling like hell, so I'd say yes.


So according to you Randy Orton draws. Good, I'm glad we could get that sorted out. Now then...

For me and I think this is a pretty fair description tbh, drawing ability is based on multiple factors, not just one; ratings, PPV buys, live gate attendance and merchandise. 

Let's look at Punk. His merchandise numbers have shot through the roof. He ticks one box. 

He made an impact on the MITB buy number and increased it by 20% and with Cena brought in over $1 mil revenue for Summerslam. I'll hold off one saying that he ticks this box completely because we are unaware of his true impact without seeing how he does without all this hype surrounding him right now. Has he reached the level where just people pay money to see him on PPV? Absolutely not but only time will tell with this one. He half ticks this box lol. 

Live gate attendance has been down across the board since 2010 with some of the lowest sales in years. Has Punk made an impact here? From the looks of it, no. Again it might be too early to tell but so far people aren't going out of their way to go see him at house shows etc. Of course it needs to be noted here that the roster is in severe need of some star power but never the less, as of now he hasn't made a dent here so he doesn't tick this box.

And now we come to the infamous issue of TEH RATINGZ. Does Punk draw ratings? It's a curios case no doubt. One thing that needs to be noted here is that the type of demographic he draws is the older male demographic if I'm not mistaken. That is in direct dispute with WWE's target audience of kids these days. Now, since this whole thing began, Punk's individual segments on the show (with the help of Vince, Cena and HHH of course) have been drawing the highest rated numbers of the night. People have been tuning in for this angle and then leaving in droves when the midcard came on to fill up the rest of the show which clearly indicates interest in him and his storyline. I feel confident in saying that were WWE's roster more filled out than it is and were there actual characters and midcarders than people cared about, that the overall rating would be higher but that isn't the case. People are interested in the Punk stuff and that's it. However, it needs to be said that while people are interested in the angle, that can't be solely accredited to Punk and I say that because the 2 times they tested him out in the important crossover from the first hour to the second hour, he didn't really hold that spot the way most were expecting he would imo. His match against ADR actually had one of the lowest gains of the year in that spot iirc. This indicates, at least to me anyway, that away from everything that is going on, the interest isn't there. This weeks ratings I'm not even going to get into because the numbers were disappointing tbh but there are any number of factors that could have impacted upon this, most likely the fact that Football started up again in a game between 2 major WWE markets in Chicago and New York if I saw that correctly on Yahoo or wherever. 

After all that the answer is, I don't know lol. He has made a dent in merch, that much is certain. He has made a dent in PPV buys but is it a sustainable one? We don't know that yet. He hasn't impacted on live gate attendance and the ratings are just a total mindfuck. So there you have it, I don't fucking know.

As for the outside factors of Cena, HHH and Vince. Vince and McMahon angles usually pop a rating and bring about a lot of interest from casuals. Cena draws but when it comes to ratings, PPV buys and live gate it certainly isn't to the extent that he was doing so at his peak in 07. Recently a lot of his TV segments without Punk, Vince or HHH have actually lost viewers. Go figure. HHH, while not a draw on the level of the Austin's and the Rock's and even the Cena's of the world, does draw. Over the years he has proven that through his merch, live gate numbers, PPV buys and ratings. But just like Cena his impact isn't what it used to be. That being said, he's the only guy out of the lot to pop a 3.8 without any influence from this storyline in his state of the WWE address. That obviously speaks for itself. At this stage in this essay length post I really don't know what the fuck I'm trying to say anymore tbh. If you read all that then you're even worse than I am for writing it .


----------



## What_A_Maneuver! (Aug 4, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> ER = 209,000
> MITB = 197,000
> 
> Morrison can bring a bigger buyrate than Punk, without all the hype.


In the UK, Money In The Bank is free. Or anywhere in the world that has Sky TV. Extreme Rules was on box office


----------



## Do Your Fcking Job (Feb 9, 2009)

LOL

This forums manlove for Punk is ridiculous.

Please explain HOW Punk is a draw?

He clearly is not. Thats because nobody part from The Rock is anymore in pro wrestling.

The delusion about Punk on this forum is crazy.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

What Starbuck said really, although at this point Punk's 'drawing status' is akin to a Guy who can't get his girlfriend off during conventional sex but gets her screaming like a banshee during oral....'. He may not be doing it 'the conventional way' through sky high ratings increases but he's damn well making the company a lot of money and drawing mainstream interest into the promotion.

Punk may not be poppin 3.6s out of his ass but the guy is clearly over with the crowds and his merchandise is selling incredibly well which is making the company more money at live events and through online sales. Sure WWE may hope for higher ratings but we still haven't got a clue how far this angle will play out, Punk's been in the highest rated segments weekly now and Starbuck is correct in saying Punk owes this as much to the people involved in the segment with him as himself. Vince, Cena, HHH and Punk will always attract viewers and he's beem in the opening and closing segments of each Raw which often attract the highest numbers as people are eager to see the start and close of the show.

MITB 2011 featured typically the same build as last year: 2 MITB matches, 2 world title matches, 1 Divas match and a non title midcard match. The one crucial difference is the build put into Cena vs Punk as well as it being in Chicago: the hype for this match was incredible and whilst it cannot be said for certain that Punk vs Cena alone popped the 20% increase it would seem as likely as any reason given how well it was built and promoted and received by the media compared to the rest of the card. As long as Punk makes the WWE money I'm sure they'll be content to let the ratings fluctuate on a weekly basis and I'm sure WWE execs have been in the business long enough to know that with the right build and continuation of this angle ratings should over time go up, especially if they continue it through past the Rumble and into Wrestlemania.

Starbuck's point about the rest of the roster lacking in star power can also explain the poor ratings, again this isn't an excuse for Punk but merely reporting what each weekly quarter hour breakdown seems to suggest: bar the Miz most segments on Raw bar the Main event and the opening lose viewers. People just do not care for the midcard at present and given its poor build who could honestly blame them?

Though why people seem to be so concerned with the ratings I don't know, would people seriously prefer stale and mundane crap popping a 5.0 instead of entertaining television only popping a 3.2??


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

I think he is a draw.


----------



## visko (Mar 17, 2009)

BigWillie54 said:


> sorry but thats not true at all.


Well, Cena has been injured for months and the ratings, buyrates and all of that were the same.

OMG CENA ISN'T A DRAW FIRE HIS FATASS!!

And Triple H has been off TV, and him being on TV or off TV hasn't affect the ratings either.

OMG HHH CAN'T DRAW SHIT FIRE THIS CLOWN NOBODY CARES ABOUT!!


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> So according to you Randy Orton draws. Good, I'm glad we could get that sorted out. Now then...


I never said that. Orton doesn't sell as much as Cena and Punk, and even what he does is as a result of brainwashing, something Cena and Punk never had to resort to because they're popular on their own and he's not. WWE could get Ted jr to sell as much as Orton if they were committed enough.


----------



## Chr1st0 (Jun 18, 2011)

god these threads are pointless


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I never said that. Orton doesn't sell as much as Cena and Punk, and even what he does is as a result of brainwashing, something Cena and Punk never had to resort to because they're popular on their own and he's not. WWE could get Ted jr to sell as much as Orton if they were committed enough.


When Orton was red hot back in the middle of last year I'm practically 99% certain that his t-shirt sales overtook Cena's for a while. Since then his merch has been some of the top selling on the roster. It doesn't matter how it happened, people are buying his stuff and if you consider Punk a draw by this logic then Orton is one too.


----------



## Nitromalta (Jul 27, 2011)

he is but not as cena or orton


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> *When Orton was red hot back in the middle of last year I'm practically 99% certain that his t-shirt sales overtook Cena's for a while.* Since then his merch has been some of the top selling on the roster. It doesn't matter how it happened, people are buying his stuff and if you consider Punk a draw by this logic then Orton is one too.


They did

http://wrestlingtruth.com/news/randy-orton-beats-cena-in-merchandise-hometown-hero-tonight/


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

I'd say it does matter how it happened. When one guy can only sell after 5 years of consistent pushing and the other sells after he cuts one 5 minute promo, I'd say that one guy is drawing because he's a draw and the other because Vince decided he was going to just push him until something worked. That could be anybody on the roster, that's the difference. Hell, even you could sell that much if Vince wanted you to.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

jm99 said:


> They did
> 
> http://wrestlingtruth.com/news/randy-orton-beats-cena-in-merchandise-hometown-hero-tonight/


Thank you.



Tyrion Lannister said:


> I'd say it does matter how it happened. When one guy can only sell after 5 years of consistent pushing and the other sells after he cuts 1 5 minute promo, I'd say that one guy is drawing because he's a draw and the other because Vince decided he was going to just push him until something worked. That could be anybody on the roster, that's the difference.


You can't differentiate. Your whole point is that Punk draws based off his merchandise. If that is the case then so does Orton, that's it. Doesn't matter how they got there. If drawing to you means selling shirts and they both sell shirts then they both are draws.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Fine, Orton is a draw in the same way that Michael McGillicutty can be a draw after being pushed nonstop for 5 years and not actually drawing anything on his own but because of a WWE mandated superpush.

You better be happy with that because you're not getting anything beyond it.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I never said that. Orton doesn't sell as much as Cena and Punk, and even what he does is as a result of brainwashing, something Cena and Punk never had to resort to because they're popular on their own and he's not. WWE could get Ted jr to sell as much as Orton if they were committed enough.


fpalm oh great not this guy again. There are alot of Orton shirts in the arena and his merchandise has sold alot not more than Cena though. So whoever is popular in the wwe it's because of them but with Orton it's brainwashing? Give me a break get that stick out of your ass u Orton hater :no: Orton is popular is because of him and WWE. WWE helped Cena and Punk too.


----------



## Quasi Juice (Apr 3, 2006)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Fine, Orton is a draw in the same way that Michael McGillicutty is a draw after being pushed nonstop for 5 years and not actually drawing anything on his own but because of a WWE mandated superpush.
> 
> You better be happy with that because you're not getting anything beyond it.


Jesus christ is it possible for you to NOT talk about Orton in every thread? You do realize basically every main eventer got a PUSH to get there and be able to be a draw? Good lord.


----------



## RKO85 (Jun 28, 2011)

Jethro said:


> Jesus christ is it possible for you to NOT talk about Orton in every thread? You do realize basically every main eventer got a PUSH to get there and be able to be a draw? Good lord.


I quit trying to explain to that guy he's a lost cause fpalm. He's been drinking way to much haterade!


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Jethro said:


> Jesus christ is it possible for you to NOT talk about Orton in every thread? You do realize basically every main eventer got a PUSH to get there and be able to be a draw? Good lord.


I wasn't even the one who brought Orton up, so don't look at me. I don't want to discuss this worthless cunt in a thread about the best in the world. Yes, every main eventer got a push to become a draw. Cena got a push, he drew, Batista got a push, he drew, Austin got a push, he drew, etc.

They didn't get a push, fail, get another push, fail, get another push, fail, get another push, fail, get another push, fail, get another push, fail, and on and on like Orton. If any of those guys had failed, Vince would've moved on to somebody else immediately. They wouldn't be given 5 thousand chances but because Orton has Vince's all time favourite look, he pushed him regardless of what anybody thought and forced him to draw. If you can even call what he does drawing. He's still not super popular after 9 world title reigns and has made less impact on the business than guys like Edge and Jericho who haven't got half the push he has.


----------



## firegreen (Aug 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> No, like i said, you guys need to realize that to the casual fan, Punk is just a skinny smartass that talk about big names like Rock, he's nothing to them.
> out of the "IWC" world people don't care about this average looking guy on a wrestling show.
> he need to change his attitude and then, maybe he would attract viewers. now? he's just a smartass that talk about things that only a small minority cares about, his fanbase, internet fans.


basically this, MITB buyrates was a massive letdown and even the ratings this week in was horrible considering how good raw has been for over a month now, HHH has been trying to make him look like crap and having this version of punk Vs any version of cena will NEVER be good for punk cause as much as cena gets boo'd that idiot still gets cheered and that makes Punk look like shit, he shouldve been feuding with a guy that gets boo'd too early to tell either way but im liking it overall so far, 

for now Punk is only an Internet phenom and nothing more..


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Fine, Orton is a draw in the same way that Michael McGillicutty can be a draw after being pushed nonstop for 5 years and not actually drawing anything on his own but because of a WWE mandated superpush.
> 
> You better be happy with that because you're not getting anything beyond it.


Nope, Orton is a draw in the same way that Punk is a draw because they both sell merch and according to you selling merch means you draw. 

:lmao

Anybody who takes anything you say seriously after this is a lost cause tbh. The blatant double standard is just ridiculous. I have no doubt that were Orton somebody you liked you would be calling him a draw. But because you don't like him (when in actual fact it's clear you love him because you can't seem to stop talking about him) he sucks at everything. Very mature and well reasoned stuff from you as usual.


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

Well the MITB buyrate was up by 20%, so yeah.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

firegreen said:


> basically this, MITB buyrates was a massive letdown and even the ratings this week in was horrible considering how good raw has been for over a month now, HHH has been trying to make him look like crap and having this version of punk Vs any version of cena will NEVER be good for punk cause as much as cena gets boo'd that idiot still gets cheered and that makes Punk look like shit, he shouldve been feuding with a guy that gets boo'd too early to tell either way but im liking it overall so far,
> 
> for now Punk is only an Internet phenom and nothing more..


MITB was up around 20% from last year according to WWE and to my knowledge the official number still hasn't been released. You could also remember that this PPV is expected to do over 200,000 without the UK market who had the PPV free of extra charge if they were a Sky subscriber thus eliminating a popular market from the buyrate.


----------



## XxPunkxX (Dec 30, 2010)

Rock316AE said:


> I don't hate, I'm honest.


No, your extremely biased. If you were honest then you'd be willing to admit your favorite wrestlers faults.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> Nope, Orton is a draw in the same way that Punk is a draw because they both sell merch and according to you selling merch means you draw.
> 
> :lmao
> 
> Anybody who takes anything you say seriously after this is a lost cause tbh. The blatant double standard is just ridiculous. I have no doubt that were Orton somebody you liked you would be calling him a draw. But because you don't like him (when in actual fact it's clear you love him because you can't seem to stop talking about him) he sucks at everything. Very mature and well reasoned stuff from you as usual.


That's not true at all. I love Miz, but he was a total forcefed push who nobody cared about. I'm not calling him a draw because he was a joke for about as many years as it took Orton to finally reach the main event. He sells merchandise too but he didn't do it on his own so it doesn't matter. 

So much for that "double standard" bullshit you just threw out.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> That's not true at all. I love Miz, but he was a total forcefed push who nobody cared about. I'm not calling him a draw because he was a joke for about as many years as it took Orton to finally reach the main event. He sells merchandise too but he didn't do it on his own so it doesn't matter.
> 
> So much for that "double standard" bullshit you just threw out.


So now Miz isn't a draw either despite the fact that he sells merchandise? Do you even believe in your philosophy of what constitutes a draw or are you just spouting random BS as usual. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THEY GOT THERE. You said that if you sell merch you are a draw. Punk sells merch therefore he draws. Orton sells merch therefore he draws. Miz sells merch therefore he draws. You can't pick and choose.


----------



## firegreen (Aug 13, 2011)

Segunda Caida said:


> MITB was up around 20% from last year according to WWE and to my knowledge the official number still hasn't been released. You could also remember that this PPV is expected to do over 200,000 without the UK market who had the PPV free of extra charge if they were a Sky subscriber thus eliminating a popular market from the buyrate.


Thats true now and its funny perhaps im spending too much time in the scene of boxing' but man 200,000 buys is so crappy compared to what boxing and mma gets, this punk stuff has been really good but i still say that 200,000 [although up 20% from least year] is still a disappoinment, i'll still be watching everyweek but im also a damn streamer so that doesnt help


----------



## Poppin' Fresh (Dec 14, 2008)

Well, he's the main reason I watch every week if that counts...


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

*He hasn't been yet but I really couldn't care less. He can draw a billion or he can draw a thousand, it makes me like him no more or no less. He entertains me, that's all I care about. *


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Starbuck said:


> So now Miz isn't a draw either despite the fact that he sells merchandise? Do you even believe in your philosophy of what constitutes a draw or are you just spouting random BS as usual. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW THEY GOT THERE. You said that if you sell merch you are a draw. Punk sells merch therefore he draws. Orton sells merch therefore he draws. Miz sells merch therefore he draws. You can't pick and choose.


I'm not picking and choosing, Punk sells merchandise because people like Punk. Miz and Orton sell merchandise because WWE said "dammit, you're gonna like these guys!" the same way they could with anybody else in the company.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

LadyCroft said:


> *He hasn't been yet but I really couldn't care less. He can draw a billion or he can draw a thousand, it makes me like him no more or no less. He entertains me, that's all I care about. *


True. This is all that really matters in the end. 



Tyrion Lannister said:


> I'm not picking and choosing, Punk sells merchandise because people like Punk. Miz and Orton sell merchandise because WWE said "dammit, you're gonna like these guys!" the same way they could with anybody else in the company.


Punk sells merch because people like him and buy his stuff. Miz and Orton sell merch because despite how they may have reached this point, people like them and buy their stuff. They are all draws under your logic.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

> Draw
> a wrestler who is able to attract the attention of the audience; someone fans are willing to pay to see.


I'm not an Orton fan in the slightest but some fans are willing to pay to see him, whether people like it or not. Sure, Tyrion's point has some meaning as in the way a certain wrestler is a draw but the fact remains that he draws.


----------



## APEX (May 26, 2011)

I wish people would shove ratings up there ass.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

> Punk sells merch because people like him and buy his stuff. Miz and Orton sell merch because despite how they may have reached this point, people like them and buy their stuff. They are all draws under your logic.


Actually, they're all draws under what you're telling me is my logic. My actual logic is that you're only a draw if it's organic, because YOU are doing the drawing, not WWE. If nobody gave a fuck about you and then WWE gave you a huge push despite lackluster reactions and lackluster sales, the company is drawing while using you as their tool. It doesn't matter if it's Orton, Miz, Del Rio, or Heath Slater. Punk, Cena, Rey, etc are actual draws who sold because people actually cared about them. They didn't have to be duped into it.


----------



## The Master of Time (Apr 4, 2011)

Do people buy his merch? Yes. Do people get really excited to see him at events? Yes. Does the mainstream media take notice of him? Yes. I think that means he is a draw. One person is not responsible for ratings. There are too many variables to put it on one person. So enough of this is CM Punk a draw.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Actually, they're all draws under what you're telling me is my logic. *My actual logic is that you're only a draw if it's organic*, because YOU are doing the drawing, not WWE. If nobody gave a fuck about you and then WWE gave you a huge push despite lackluster reactions and lackluster sales, the company is drawing while using you as their tool. It doesn't matter if it's Orton, Miz, Del Rio, or Heath Slater. Punk, Cena, Rey, etc are actual draws who sold because people actually cared about them. They didn't have to be duped into it.


Well why didn't you just say that then? All this arguing and I was hoping you would come out with this at some stage. Now that you have I can stop trolling you. That being said, I think your definition of a draw is highly flawed and shouldn't just be based on merchandise through organic or otherwise means because it's about a hell of a lot more than that.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

I've been saying that this entire time...


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> I've been saying that this entire time...


You said if you sell merch you draw, not if you sell merch because you got there on your own blah blah blah.


----------



## John Laurinaitis (Aug 8, 2011)

LadyCroft said:


> *He hasn't been yet but I really couldn't care less. He can draw a billion or he can draw a thousand, it makes me like him no more or no less. He entertains me, that's all I care about. *


Well he wont be on your TV if he cant draw decent numbers every week.

WWE will start pushing someone who can actually draw. Punk will be back to mid card.


----------



## Dark_Raiden (Feb 14, 2009)

Yes, and no. He draws as far as merchandise, but that seems to be it. The MitB buyrate seemed kinda low for what it should be for a storyline of that quality. Plus the ratings have dropped since he was the center of attention, though maybe Del Rio has some blame in that. 

So he's a merchandise mover, but not a draw.


----------



## XxPunkxX (Dec 30, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> You said if you sell merch you draw, not if you sell merch because you got there on your own blah blah blah.


He said that once, and that wasn't even the only thing he said when it comes to drawing. You on the other hand basically repeated it in every comment you had and it's extremely annoying. Literally I could fill an entire page if I just posted all of your comments where you said that statement. Your first comment in this thread was spot on and you were pretty much right about everything, and then you just suddenly got more annoying than the biased Rocky mark that thought Extreme Rules had more buy rates than a PPV that doesn't even have it's official number out yet.


----------



## Dub (Dec 4, 2008)

> * The in-ring with HHH, Kevin Nash and C.M. Punk gained 597,000 viewers, which is slightly better than average for the slot.* * Cena vs. Punk was a big success, gaining 1,186,000 viewers to a 3.65 overrun.*


^^


----------



## DKAJC (May 27, 2007)

If you could just provide a link for that, it would be game, set, and match for the trolls.


----------



## Dub (Dec 4, 2008)

Its in the Observer Newsletter.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

nah but Punk's not a draw BURN!


----------



## Arya Dark (Sep 8, 2006)

John Laurinaitis said:


> Well he wont be on your TV if he cant draw decent numbers every week.
> 
> WWE will start pushing someone who can actually draw. Punk will be back to mid card.


*He was on my TV week in and week out without drawing a dime and being a glorified jobber. *


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

DubC said:


> ^^


Damn right.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

LadyCroft said:


> *He was on my TV week in and week out without drawing a dime and being a glorified jobber. *


I think he forgot the midcard are still on TV. :side:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

XxPunkxX said:


> He said that once, and that wasn't even the only thing he said when it comes to drawing. You on the other hand basically repeated it in every comment you had and it's extremely annoying. Literally I could fill an entire page if I just posted all of your comments where you said that statement. Your first comment in this thread was spot on and you were pretty much right about everything, and then you just suddenly got more annoying than the biased Rocky mark that thought Extreme Rules had more buy rates than a PPV that doesn't even have it's official number out yet.


U MAD?


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Average overrun numbers, nothing special.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Rock316AE said:


> Average overrun numbers, nothing special.


Funny, I was expecting people to use this excuse. Here's the thing though, RAW barely even went over 11 this week. I believe the show ended at about 11:05. See, but I could use that excuse for Rock's comeback, seeing as how that segment went on to about 11:25.


----------



## visko (Mar 17, 2009)

Dark_Raiden said:


> Yes, and no. He draws as far as merchandise, but that seems to be it. The MitB buyrate seemed kinda low for what it should be for a storyline of that quality. Plus t*he ratings have dropped since he was the center of attention*, though maybe Del Rio has some blame in that.
> 
> So he's a merchandise mover, but not a draw.


That should mean that R-Truth is a bigger draw than Punk. xDDDD

People jumping to conclusions on the fly with little to no evidence is funny.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> and the 2 2.9s?


Yes, Punk can't draw.


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Average overrun numbers, nothing special.


At least it's better than the Rock's birthday ratings.


----------



## visko (Mar 17, 2009)

Choke2Death said:


> You wanna know why the 4th July episode only got 2.4? Because it was taped right after the Roulette episode so most people were curious and checked out the spoilers. That and the fact it was 4th of July which is a day where people are partying and having fun outside of the house throughout the States, therefore have no time for a Raw episode, specially when the results came out the week before.


And Punk wasn't even on the show. And it was 4th of july, of course rating would be shitty.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Funny, I was expecting people to use this excuse. Here's the thing though, RAW barely even went over 11 this week. I believe the show ended at about 11:05. See, but I could use that excuse for Rock's comeback, seeing as how that segment went on to about 11:25.


You can't:


> In a segment-by-segment breakdown, The Rock’s opener gained 903,000 viewers in the second-quarter, bringing that quarter to a 4.10. This was the highest rated second-quarter in years and some of the biggest growth for that quarter in recent memory.





> CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio at 10pm gained just 15,000 viewers, which is the lowest number for the 10pm timeslot in a while.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

And DubC for the win.

I truly think people are THIS upset because Punk feels the same way about Rock as he does with Cena (kayfabe wise). Before then, it wasn't THAT bad.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> And DubC for the win.
> 
> I truly think people are THIS upset because Punk feels the same way about Rock as he does with Cena (kayfabe wise). Before then, it wasn't THAT bad.


lol @ you thinking you've expose us. I've been saying time and time again that is the reason I've been raging on him.


----------



## RATED-RKOFRANKLIN (Dec 9, 2008)

You can't blame the overall ratings on Punk. R-Truth and The Miz created the second program on the show. It should not had taken that long for them to get a program. We've been through months with only the Punk program. The WWE needs more programs to get better ratings.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> lol @ you thinking you've expose us. I've been saying time and time again that is the reason I've been raging on him.


I didn't say I was exposing you or 'us', I guess.

By the way, WWE better capitalize on the Miz as well. A Miz/Punk match along with the Wrestlemania build up could be an epic classic in the making.


----------



## greaz taker! (Sep 12, 2010)

the 30 people who voted no are LIL JIMMIES PEEING IN THEIR PYJAMAS!


----------



## Serpent01 (Dec 5, 2007)

He is a draw. Anyone who voted otherwise is a blind hater.


----------



## M.S.I.I. (Aug 30, 2007)

I think if you have to debate about whether someone is a draw or not, then more likely than not, they aren't a draw.

The only legit, undisputed draw in wrestling right now is John Cena.


----------



## XxPunkxX (Dec 30, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> U MAD?


If I was I would've used caps. You'll know when I'm mad.


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

Winning™ said:


> I didn't say I was exposing you or 'us', I guess.
> 
> By the way, WWE better capitalize on the Miz as well. A Miz/Punk match along with the Wrestlemania build up could be an epic classic in the making.


I've been calling Punk vs. Miz @ Mania 28 for over a month now. It just seems like this is where their 2 storylines will end up.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Amsterdam said:


> I've been calling Punk vs. Miz @ Mania 28 for over a month now. It just seems like this is where their 2 storylines will end up.


I don't see it happening at Wrestlemania next year with the whole HHH angle looking to be Punk's biggest feud to date. But Wrestlemania 29, if Austin can't come in and do a program that will put over Punk, a Miz/Punk feud and match for the WWE Championship will be of epic proportions. 

Two of WWE's top rising stars fighting for the WWE Championship at Wrestlemania. It speaks for itself.


----------



## TooManyLimes (Aug 2, 2011)

IMO, Punk is a draw. Why? Because he's the only reason i watch Raw. THATS MY OPINION.
Now everyone here can argue all they want, but it will never end because everyone in this thread is an egotistical idiot who thinks their own opinion is fact. Mostly to the Punk marks and Rock mark(s)


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

CM Punks promo from RAW drew over 500,000 people and his match with Cena drew over 1,000,000 people. His T-shirts have been top sellers and 1,000,000 dollars were raised at the arena where Summerslam was held. 

So in summary he is a draw and one of the reasons people tune into RAW. CM Punk is the reason why I tune into RAW. 

I say the problem of the low ratings is due to the mid-card, divas and tag team division.


----------



## Muerte al fascismo (Feb 3, 2008)

Course he is. He's not Cena, Rey Rey or Taker levels, but its undeniable he sells tickets/ppv.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> CM Punks promo from RAW drew over 500,000 people and his match with Cena drew over 1,000,000 people. His T-shirts have been top sellers and 1,000,000 dollars were raised at the arena where Summerslam was held.
> 
> So in summary he is a draw and one of the reasons people tune into RAW. CM Punk is the reason why I tune into RAW.
> 
> I say the problem of the low ratings is due to the mid-card, divas and tag team division.


and his shoot promo and match with cena at mitb brought so much intrigue that it bumped up MITB ppv 20% from its previous year


----------



## miles berg (Jun 12, 2010)

Winning™ said:


> So the fuck what? That wasn't my point. Rock fans are calling Punk a smartass when Rock was one of the biggest smartasses (heel or face) in the company.


The Rock was a complete badass and extremely entertaining. He oozed charisma and was the type of superstar that millions and millions of fans latched on to. Comparing Punk to The Rock is doing Punk an injustice and giving him unreasonable expectations that he simply can't live up to.

As for the topic, no, CM Punk isnt a draw. 

Wrestling has produced one draw in the last decade, John Cena, other than that the only other thing that draws is a brand, the WWE name brand.


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

no he isn't .. he's not in that place *yet*


----------



## XxPunkxX (Dec 30, 2010)

Premeditated said:


> when Miz and Truth were the focus of the show with Cena, they never ones went below 3.0. So far Punk has had *2.4*, 2.9 and another 2.9 this week. He's had plenty of segments but yet ratings have been the lowest this years.


If your referring to the July 4th Raw, first off that was taped so obviously the ratings were going to be down a bit, second it aired on a fucking holiday so that's a horrible example fpalm and third Punk wasn't even on the show that night!! fpalm fpalm


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

Jp_sTuNNa said:


> Rock marks really love to hate on Punk, its unreal. I dont care what you say but the only reason the WWE is interesting right now is all due to Punk.


disagree on the first point , agreed on the second


----------



## Rocky Mark (Mar 27, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> So the fuck what? That wasn't my point. Rock fans are calling Punk a smartass when Rock was one of the biggest smartasses (heel or face) in the company.


ok i know this thread isn't about rock but come on know , how was the rock a smartass ? 

when was the last time the rock leaked inside stuff or talked in smark language ? 

his character was so badass .. a prima donna , cocky , arrogant bulky guy who won't spit on you if you were on fire , AND he still went out with style


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

I would just like to know, how Punk can be solely responsible for the recent low ratings?


----------



## IHaveTillFiveBitch (Nov 11, 2010)

The only reason I'm watching raw is because of punk, so yeah he's a draw.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

The only reason why I watch Raw is because of Truth and Kofi (Miz also). does that mean that Truth and Kofi are draws?


----------



## AMxPunk (Jul 1, 2011)

He certainly is,Because he's the only reason allot of people tune in to watch RAW


----------



## Serpent01 (Dec 5, 2007)

Premeditated said:


> The only reason why I watch Raw is because of Truth and Kofi (Miz also). does that mean that Truth and Kofi are draws?


If a lot of others feel the same way then that would qualify as a draw, but I doubt more people are watching Raw for Truth/Kofi compared to Punk.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Premeditated said:


> The only reason why I watch Raw is because of Truth and Kofi (Miz also). does that mean that Truth and Kofi are draws?


So you continually claim to be a Punk fan, yet you don't tune in to see him? :hmm:


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Serpent01 said:


> If a lot of others feel the same way then that would qualify as a draw, but I doubt more people are watching Raw for Truth/Kofi compared to Punk.


here's the thing though. You can say alot of people tune in to see Punk, but the ratings have been slightly lower before this angle, so you should also be able to say he's responsible for alot of people tuning out. I don't consider that a draw.


----------



## Prime Time Keim (Jan 10, 2006)

The WWE is starting to use CM Punk as if he were a flash in the pan. When R-Truth more that "toe'd" the line by whoopin Morrion's ass and blowing smoke in his face and showing off his proudly lit cancer sticks, I thought that the Raw fans were in for a feud of the Summer between WWE's Golden Child in Cena and (lets never mention that he's a former two time NWA Champ) very anti-Cena R-Truth. Instead, he just got his PPV match and quick little feud and off he went to the back of the line.

Chris Jericho has seemed to master this magic trick of being in the main event: Now you see me, now I'm jobbing for you to take my main event spot. Despite the difference in gimmicks, Jericho and CM Punk just may have careers what will mirrior eachother. Jericho has never held a WWE or World more than three months and some odd day, the same with Punk. Now that Punk has found his nitche, he still was only able to lay clain to the WWE Championship for hardly a month; but I hope that is because there is something extremely interesting building up to Triple H/CM Punk/Cena/Stephanie McMahon/Alberto Del Rio and Stephanie McMahon, as if the WWE is trying to shake things up like the did in the late 90s and make wrestling not just popular, but completely unpredictable, which is one of the reasons why fans watched wrestling back in the late 90s.

The WWE has an extremely hot, sweltering burning hot hand with Punk, and they would be stupid to let him go cold. WWE has to stay on top of Punk whether that be as the top heel, face or even tweener. Maybe it has been, or maybe it hasn't but sure as hell feels like it's been a long time since WWE picked who they want wearing the championship and picked who they want to see in the main events. WWE needs to roll with CM Punk to see where this takes them.

If not, he'll turn out to be another Chris Jericho. A solid in-ring performer who might turn into a tag team specialist. Someone you could always count on to deliver a solid main event on Raw or Smackdown, but by no means, not on any PPV events! Sure, he might win another meaningless World title or two that adds up to 54 days for two reigns. He wont be a star. He wont be CM Punk. He'd just be that "solid go-to guy" and not "THE guy".


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> So you continually claim to be a Punk fan, yet you don't tune in to see him? :hmm:


I tune in to see Kofi, Truth and Miz more. If Punk is on, I'll most likely watch, but I'm not gonna be racing home for him.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Premeditated said:


> here's the thing though. You can say alot of people tune in to see Punk, but the ratings have been slightly lower before this angle, so you should also be able to say he's responsible for alot of people tuning out. I don't consider that a draw.


Even though his segments are the highest rated on the show?


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> Even though his segments are the highest rated on the show?


his segments are also at the start of the show, top of the hour or mainevent. Come on now, this is traditional. You know better than that. Those are always the highest rated segments of each episode.


----------



## It's True (Nov 24, 2008)

hard to say yes or no at this current time, but if he is booked right for the next few months and keeps him momentum he definitely will be I believe


----------



## Stad (Apr 6, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> I tune in to see Kofi, Truth and Miz more. If Punk is on, I'll most likely watch, but I'm not gonna be racing home for him.


Don't lie now.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

Were people actually basing drawing power as an individual's ability to make people tune in to a rasslin' show?

LULZ?


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

stadw0n306 said:


> Don't lie now.


I don't. I promise.














































really.:argh:


----------



## Zedders (Dec 15, 2006)

The modern day drawing power should be measured by merchandise sells, and Punks sells.


----------



## lesenfanteribles (Nov 23, 2004)

it's been barely two months since we've seen much from Punk, give him more time. Although I don't really like discussing stuff about ratings and such but I do believe he can draw and will be a draw given enough time. let's not be so impatient..things don't come in an instant.


----------



## Dick C. Normis (Apr 8, 2011)

Ratings say no.


----------



## mustyballs (Aug 21, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> No, like i said, you guys need to realize that to the casual fan, Punk is just a skinny smartass that talk about big names like Rock, he's nothing to them.
> out of the "IWC" world people don't care about this average looking guy on a wrestling show.
> he need to change his attitude and then, maybe he would attract viewers. now? he's just a smartass that talk about things that only a small minority cares about, his fanbase, internet fans.


This, breaking kayfabe as a gimmick and keeping the Rock's dick in his mouth all the time, doesnt impress me one bit. He isnt a draw imo


----------



## Belladonna29 (Nov 12, 2009)

LOL, come on people. This thread is such a Rorschach test.

If you hate Punk and think he's "overrated" or not as "good as Rocky" or whatever, your definition of what 'draws' will specifically regulate Punk to someone who doesn't.
And if you idolize Punk and think he's the second coming of 
SCSA, then your definition of what a draw is will describe what Punk is accomplishing right now.

Any measurement of whether he draws or not, from ratings to to buyrates to merch all have variables attached to them that will be overlooked as everyone here because there's no way anyone can properly assess them all
*
This thread is less about Punk and more about the posters willingness to denounce or defend the guy.*

No one is going to change anyone's mind here, especially if you hate Punk and are essentially trolling under the guise of presenting 'truth' to his fanboys.

Just stop it already.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

This thread has come down to some people presenting valid points to people disregarding them and goin' on TROLOLOLOLOOLLL mode. 

It's quite enjoyable, actually. Sippin' on some Mountain Dew and munchin' on some buttery popcorn right now...


----------



## sesshomaru (Dec 11, 2006)

Punk's not really a draw, but really, nobody in the buisness ATM can draw much more then ther're doing currently. Like I posted a couple weeks ago, Punk is not beginning a new era for the WWE. As we're seeing so far, the product is actually doing worse right now because of MNF. The best Punk can hope for is Jericho-status from this run.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

How the hell do 41 people think that Punk isn't drawing? Every segment he's been in the last 2-3 months have GAINED viewers, MITB is up from last year and Capitol Punishment, his overruns usually do really good numbers, his merchendise is selling like crazy, and his match sold out SummerSlam and made it gross 1 Million for ticket sales...something that the last 2 SummerSlam's couldn't do.

As for ratings, Quarter-hour breakdown have consistently proven the last month or so that the MID-CARD is losing viewers...NOT Punk. Punk is not to blame for this "ratings crisis" as everyone is saying it is.


----------



## Sonko (May 24, 2006)

The overall rating doesn't matter.It's the demographic they're targeting and the quarter hours.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Sonko said:


> The overall rating doesn't matter.It's the demographic they're targeting and the quarter hours.


It's not like ratings don't matter. They DO, but I just hate the fact that people are blaming the ENTIRE rating just on CM Punk. A man can only do so much.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

The necessity of this thread continuing on died after *Starbuck*'s post on the 9th page. The rest of this thread from there is a mixture of the ridiculous (in spades) and the sublime (a few grains by comparison). 

Every "draw" has had to be nurtured in order to be realized. From the absolute biggest phenoms in the modern era like Hogan and Austin to guys like Triple H, Cena and Batista. Sometimes I think 70% of this forum believes Austin became a massive draw within two weeks following the KOTR '96 "Austin 3:16" speech. That Batista became a Colossus the minute he first powerbombed Triple H. Or, for a much more reasonably attainable yardstick on behalf of Punk, Del Rio, Miz, et. al., Lesnar became "big" when he won at Summerslam 2002. It doesn't work that way. A promotion has to pour in more time, effort and work. 

Put even more simply, Punk has displayed vibrant signs of sustainable drawing ability in at least multiple quadrants of WWE's business model. There's no reason to cut the push short, all the incentive to at least honestly continue it and pursue whatever benefits it accrues.


----------



## Rop3 (Feb 1, 2010)

He was a draw even when he was a jobber midcarder. I always found it weird how people said they only watch WWE for CM Punk, when Punk was just getting his ass handed to him every episode. Right now he's definately a draw, probably the biggest one.


----------



## Damian77D (Mar 5, 2011)

Yes


----------



## CP Munk (Aug 13, 2011)

No CM Punk doesent draw anyone at all, It doesent matter if his t shirt sold out on the day, and his limited edition mitb t shirts are being sold for 500 bucks each, or that he pretty much sold out mitb on his own, So no not a draw at all, i watch raw to watch yoshi tatsu.


----------



## Phenom (Oct 17, 2002)

For now, not so much. But that can change if he is given time to develop into his role more.


----------



## Amsterdam (Mar 8, 2010)

Belladonna29 said:


> LOL, come on people. This thread is such a Rorschach test.
> 
> If you hate Punk and think he's "overrated" or not as "good as Rocky" or whatever, your definition of what 'draws' will specifically regulate Punk to someone who doesn't.
> And if you idolize Punk and think he's the second coming of
> ...


:hmm:

Congratulations. You caught me. 8*D


----------



## Gokulio (Jan 21, 2010)

CM Punk has proven to be a draw with the MITB buy rate being up 20% this year and the quarterly ratings for Raw showing that viewership goes up by a lot when Punk is involved in a segment.


----------



## dele (Feb 21, 2005)

Remember, "draw" also means someone who can make the company money. Do you see all the people wearing his T shirt? Yeah. That's a draw.


----------



## The Main Headliner (Mar 5, 2009)

Guys, guys, guys. U don't become a mega star just like that. The poster that said it took Austin two years from his famous 316 speech is correct. 

Wrestling is in a down period, with more comp like UFC, NFL, dvr, downloads, etc, so it's gonna take work, gradual work (like the wwfs best year 1997), to get ditractors back. It's gotta be a team effort much like the begininings of the attitude era was with Bret, Austin, HBK, DX, The Nation of Domination, Taker, Mankind, HHH, Sable, The Rock, and Kane. 

Punk just started on his roll like less than 2 months ago; this world right now is just two fast paced, everyone wants now now now, so a short amount of time feels like twice as long. The WWE has an opportunity with Punks rise, perhaps a Cena heel turn, or retweaking of his character, The Miz, and whether u all like it or not, a major major assist from one of the 2 biggest stars from Wwe's most famous Era in the Rock, to begin a spark to a new boom in the WWE, like Punk said in that posters quote.

Give it time. 

Btw, I like CM punk, and I don't like Austin that much, but please, please don't ever compare punks rant on 6/27/2011 to Austin's 3:16 speech at King of the Ring 1996. Punks rant (while amazing) ain't even in the same league, it's not even an argument. "Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass" is one of if not the most famous lines in all of wrestling.


----------



## Patrick Bateman (Jul 23, 2011)

Everyone who says no is a troll.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

psx71 said:


> How the hell do 41 people think that Punk isn't drawing? Every segment he's been in the last 2-3 months have GAINED viewers, MITB is up from last year and Capitol Punishment, his overruns usually do really good numbers, his merchendise is selling like crazy, and his match sold out SummerSlam and made it gross 1 Million for ticket sales...something that the last 2 SummerSlam's couldn't do.
> 
> As for ratings, Quarter-hour breakdown have consistently proven the last month or so that the MID-CARD is losing viewers...NOT Punk. Punk is not to blame for this "ratings crisis" as everyone is saying it is.


Cause he's not.
his overran numbers are average at best, nothing special:


> CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio at 10pm gained just 15,000 viewers, which is the lowest number for the 10pm timeslot in a while.


MITB is up only 30k, again nothing special, even Morrison bring bigger buyrate on a B PPV without all the hype.
his match sold out SS? he sell the tickets? LOL the Punk marks are becoming more delusional by the minute


> Written on February 15th, 2011
> Tickets for this year’s WWE SummerSlam PPV go on sale tomorrow morning at 10am EST. The show will take place this August from Los Angeles, California’s Staples Center for the third straight year in a row.


----------



## Mr.English (Apr 6, 2009)

Not yet, but he will be.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Cause he's not.
> his overran numbers are average at best, nothing special:
> 
> *MITB is up only 30k, again nothing special, even Morrison bring bigger buyrate on a B PPV without all the hype.*
> his match sold out SS? he sell the tickets? LOL the Punk marks are becoming more delusional by the minute


Summerslam DID sell out, what are you even talking about? And when did Morrison ever main event a PPV in a one on one match? The whole of that bolded sentence is a whole lotta fpalm. I hope when Rocky leaves after 'Mania, he takes his marks with him.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> Summerslam DID sell out, what are you even talking about? And when did Morrison ever main event a PPV in a one on one match? The whole of that bolded sentence is a whole lotta fpalm. I hope when Rocky leaves after 'Mania, he takes his marks with him.


Where is The Rock going lol?

He'll just be doing what he does now from now on. Nothing is going to change.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> Summerslam DID sell out, what are you even talking about? And when did Morrison ever main event a PPV in a one on one match? The whole of that bolded sentence is a whole lotta fpalm. I hope when Rocky leaves after 'Mania, he takes his marks with him.


Read Punk mark:


> Written on *February 15th, 2011*
> Tickets for this year’s WWE SummerSlam PPV go on sale tomorrow morning at 10am EST. The show will take place this August from Los Angeles, California’s Staples Center for the third straight year in a row.


fpalm


----------



## Gwilt (Jul 26, 2010)

Do you guys think kids watch Raw to see CM Punk? Didn't think so. Therefore, he is a draw amongst teens and adults to be more specific.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> For me and I think this is a pretty fair description tbh, drawing ability is based on multiple factors, not just one; ratings, PPV buys, live gate attendance and merchandise.
> 
> Let's look at Punk. His merchandise numbers have shot through the roof. He ticks one box.
> 
> ...


Just thought I'd repost my thoughts since I haven't seen very much resembling common sense in here since I made it yesterday. Tooting your own horn FTW tbh.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Read Punk mark:
> 
> 
> fpalm


"Tickets for this year’s WWE SummerSlam PPV go on sale tomorrow morning at 10am EST. The show will take place this August from Los Angeles, California’s Staples Center for the third straight year in a row."

...

So how does this show that Summerslam didn't sell out?


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

lol.

I really don't know why the Punk marks continue to bring The Rock in this discussion. It isn't healthy.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> "Tickets for this year’s WWE SummerSlam PPV go on sale tomorrow morning at 10am EST. The show will take place this August from Los Angeles, California’s Staples Center for the third straight year in a row."
> 
> ...
> 
> So how does this show that Summerslam didn't sell out?


you don't understand where he's getting at. The tickets were on sale, way earlier this yeah, so what makes you think that SS tickets weren't sold out before this angle started anyways? SS is one of their biggest ppvs, the tickets will be sold out regardless. God damn.


----------



## Mattyb2266 (Jun 28, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> lol.
> 
> I really don't know why the Punk marks continue to bring The Rock in this discussion. It isn't healthy.


I do believe that one of you Rocky marks brought him up in the first place. Talk about not being healthy...


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> "Tickets for this year’s WWE SummerSlam PPV go on sale tomorrow morning at 10am EST. The show will take place this August from Los Angeles, California’s Staples Center for the third straight year in a row."
> 
> ...
> 
> So how does this show that Summerslam didn't sell out?





> psx71
> and his match sold out SummerSlam


Read next time.
Like i said, the Punk marks are becoming more delusional by the minute.


----------



## jimboystar24 (Feb 19, 2007)

Smashisleet said:


> Yes, because I watch RAW after what he did. He is drawing me.


Under this argument, every wrestler is a draw because there is one person that likes at least one wrestler every week. 

So in my case, Zack Ryder is a draw because if I do watch the show, I watch to see if he is on.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> you don't understand where he's getting at. The tickets were on sale, way earlier this yeah, so what makes you think that SS tickets weren't sold out before this angle started anyways? SS is one of their biggest ppvs, the tickets will be sold out regardless. God damn.


From everything I gathered, the tickets didn't fully sell out until quite late in the game. Punk/Cena clearly played a big part in the buyrates and attendance, it's silly to deny that.


----------



## Scott_90 (Jul 11, 2011)

Nope. He is good for trending topics and internet forum buzz but as for tangible revenue and ratings no he's not.


----------



## joeisgonnakillyou (Jul 8, 2011)

MITB ppv buys.


----------



## D17 (Sep 28, 2010)

Is everyone forgeting that Cena (a bigger draw then Punk) was also in the main event as MITB and Summerslam? Him and Punk together both drew those PPVs. Even though they're not exactly monster numbers. Yes he sells merch. Is he a ratings draw? Not really, thay've been staying the same/dropping. Overall from the looks of things he's somewhat of a draw, but nothing special to the casuals, just another wrestler.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

NO


The forum itself should be renamed as www.punkmarksforum.com... but i'm surprised that he even got votes against him.. even his marks are amused by reality.

i want to make wrestling cool


2.9

:flip


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Alberto del Rio said:


> NO
> 
> 
> The forum itself should be renamed as www.punkmarksforum.com... but i'm surprised that he even got votes against him.. even his marks are amused by reality.
> ...


Punk/Nash/Haitch segment this week drew 500,000, above average for that quarter. Also, Cena/Punk drew 1,100,000+. 3.65 rating. Here's the best part, the match attracted _new_ viewers. Because it was the highest rated segment. And don't think for a second it was because people were coming in for the crappy show after RAW, because this RAW only had about a 5 minute overrun. Must mean people heard it was Punk/Cena as the main event, and tuned in, right? Watching the Punk haters get proven wrong constantly only to come up with the same dumb excuses is getting a tad bit boring, to be honest.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

ya defending punk is very interesting i guess. 

stop overreacting and accept the fact.. he hasn't brought in ONE single new fan after starting the angle and the hypocrite idiot said he wants make wrestling cool again..

fast forward.. main event with cena, who is a proven draw anyway..

what's so cool? and what did he draw..

house show attendance hasn't gone up ala post nwo wcw.

despite ALL the mega fuckingest push, raw still draw in low 3's.. is he a draw?


Punk marks just want to masturbate on those shoot comments and refuse to accept the reality..


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

joeisgonnakillyou's sig is officially the only good thing about this thread.


----------



## John Laurinaitis (Aug 8, 2011)

Rock's return drew 3.9 

PUNK along with others including cena & HHH drew a 3.6

Cant see how punk becomes a draw??


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

If people are going to use rating as an argument, at least use the quarter hour viewership. I'm sorry but Punk cannot be blamed for all the other crap on RAW that drives down the viewership. Didn't Morrison vs. Truth from a couple of weeks ago lose 800,000+ viewers? 

Look at the stone cold facts, the MITB buyrate was up by 20%, his merchandise is selling like crazy, and for some reason when ever he is on TV he gains the viewers back that the other segments lose. What else do you want? Does he have to bring in Rock numbers to prove that he is gaining in popularity?


----------



## Demandred (Jun 2, 2008)

Amsterdam said:


> I've noticed that Raw's ratings have gone down in the weeks following CM Punk's return. There are many on this forum that now say CM Punk is what John Cena said he was - a one hit wonder. The claim is that while CM Punk is very popular with the male and IWC crowd, and is currently matching Cena in merchandise sales, he is not the ratings draw many thought he would be, and the drop in the ratings is due to too much focus being on him.
> 
> Thoughts? Is Punk a ratings draw - why or why not?




Ratings have dropped less than usual following SS and around 4.7 million people have watched since the Punk story started. So if anything its been a shot in the arm. 

To directly answer the question, NO ONE is a draw. No individual draws, WWE has a whole draws. And no matter how many times those idiot trolls try to say "ratingz haven't gone up by .5 points" or some arbitrary stupid number, it makes no difference. No wrestler is going to suddenly change ratings. People watch WWE because they want to watch WWE. CM Punk suddenly winning the WWE championship isn't going to get 1 million new people to start watching. I can't believe how some people don't understand basic logic.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

TMPRKO said:


> Ratings have dropped less than usual following SS and around 4.7 million people have watched since the Punk story started. So if anything its been a shot in the arm.
> 
> To directly answer the question, NO ONE is a draw. No individual draws, WWE has a whole draws. And no matter how many times those idiot trolls try to say "ratingz haven't gone up by .5 points" or some arbitrary stupid number, it makes no difference. No wrestler is going to suddenly change ratings. People watch WWE because they want to watch WWE. CM Punk suddenly winning the WWE championship isn't going to get 1 million new people to start watching. I can't believe how some people don't understand basic logic.



bwaahahahaha..

typical punk mark arguement..

just accept the fact he hasn't drawn any new viewers as his marks trying to prove..


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

The overrun numbers are average, get over it Punk marks:


> The Cena vs. Riley cage match gained 167,000 viewers in the overrun, ending at a *3.86. This is low for RAW’s usual overrun*.


Riley is a bigger draw by your standards.


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

John Laurinaitis said:


> Rock's return drew 3.9
> 
> PUNK along with others including cena & HHH drew a 3.6
> 
> Cant see how punk becomes a draw??


And rocks birthday drew 3.4, your trolling sucks.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> The overrun numbers are average, get over it Punk marks:
> 
> 
> Riley is a bigger draw by your standards.





> The Cena vs. Riley cage match gained 167,000 viewers in the overrun, ending at a 3.86. This is low for RAW’s usual overrun.


The highest rated segment Punk has had was a 3.7 with Nash. Meanwhile A-Ry "match with Cena got close to a 3.9.

*dead*

Rock316AE just came and shut this thread down.

I wonder how Punk marks are going to respond to this.

"B.....B....But Punk gets the highest segments in the show"
yeah no shit, he's always at the main event segments or top of the hour segments and even that is pretty much below Raw's standards. Does that mean that boring sack of shit, A-ri is a bigger draw. Let see Punk try to bring back viewers like The Miz does when he's not at the top of the hour or mainevent.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Pillzmayn said:


> And rocks birthday drew 3.4, your trolling sucks.


better than any rating Punk has brought.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> better than any rating Punk has brought.


Bravo.

No wrestling.. No fucking kayfabe breaking.. No megafucking push..

still draws better than someone who has been shoved down to our throats (in some cases, his dick too).

Punk fans inferiority complex a lot that they dare to compare him to the brahma bull..


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated, Internet Champion, and the massive Rock marks make this entertaining every day, amirite?

By the way, a CM Punk interview since it's Punk related:



The Chicago Sun-Times said:


> Since a hot story line this summer in which he thumbed his nose at the institution that is WWE, Chicago’s very own CM Punk has gone from underappreciated to the new face of professional wrestling. His microphone skills are elite, and his love for the Cubs runs deep. Time to put him in the Interrogation Room.
> 
> Joe Cowley: Tell me about these dirty-looking Cubs hats I hear you’re always wearing.
> 
> ...


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Pillzmayn said:


> And rocks birthday drew 3.4, your trolling sucks.





> The Rock’s opener gained 903,000 viewers *in the second-quarter*, bringing that quarter to a 4.10. This was the highest rated second-quarter in years and some of the biggest growth for that quarter in recent memory.


^


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™;10209000 said:


> Premeditated, Internet Champion, and the massive Rock marks make this entertaining every day, amirite?
> 
> By the way, a CM Punk interview since it's Punk related:


so not only, is he not a draw, but he's also a Cubs fan? I understand he's from Chicago but lol. Next thing he'll say is he's a Bears fan. lol.


----------



## Smash (Jul 12, 2011)

I will say it one more time... I watch WWE because of Punk and there for makes him a draw at least to me.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

In relation to what Starbuck just posted- Nash is out of touch? Well I never!


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Smashisleet said:


> I will say it one more time... I watch WWE because of Punk and there for makes him a draw at least to me.


i'm sure you'd pay for CM Punk solo porno.


----------



## CaptainObvious (Jul 12, 2011)

I read through 24 pages and the only thing I took away is the fact that most people have no clue what a draw is.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

> JC: Was it hard to keep a straight face when Kevin Nash called you a ‘‘short-order cook . . . from a Waffle House’’ on ‘‘Raw’’ last week?
> 
> CMP: I don’t think I did . . . he’s completely out of touch.


:lmao

So Rock's Shtick is corny, Nash is out of touch but breaking kayfabe is new and "cool"
NEWS FLASH Punk, people already done it 15 years ago.

:lmao


----------



## diorama (Feb 4, 2009)

Well depending on what you consider a "draw" is.

Is it ratings? With Punk, rating hasn't been increased. In fact, ratings hasn't been affected at all by his mainevent push. So based on the number he didn't bring new viewers. So he is not a draw.

Is it merchandise? Punk Best in the World t-shirt rivals Cena shirt in sales number. You can see it for yourself how there are lots of white shirts in the audience. Yes he is a draw.

Is it fan reaction? Watch any RAW shows for the last month. There will be a guaranteed "CM Punk" chant at every arena. So yes he is a draw.

But then again, why do you care? If you are afraid that RAW would be cancelled or anything, it WON'T until it reaches less than 2.2 ratings. If you don't like Punk, then watch somebody else. It's that easy actually.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> i'm sure you'd pay for CM Punk solo porno.


lol


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> And you'd probably pay to suck Alberto del Rio's dick. So badly that you have even named yourself after him.


and you have a username that proves punk's dick is situated so far down to your throat.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

CaptainObvious said:


> I read through 24 pages and the only thing I took away is the fact that most people have no clue what a draw is.


This thread is pretty much full of trolls and Rocky marks who are pissed that somebody who isn't from the Attitude Era is making a serious impression on the wrestling world. The lack of corny catchphrases scares them.




Rock316AE said:


> :lmao
> 
> So Rock's Shtick is corny, Nash is out of touch but breaking kayfabe is new and "cool"
> NEWS FLASH Punk, people already done it 15 years ago.


lol at you not knowing what breaking kayfabe means. These threads attract the best people.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

This thread is pretty pathetic


Rock316AE said:


> NEWS FLASH Punk, people already done it 15 years ago.


Congratulations. D'you want a medal? Or a gold star maybe? I don't know what you think you've achieved by 'proving' (I put that in quote marks because I've not been following the argument so don't know if you have or not) CM Punk is not a draw?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> and you have a username that proves punk's dick is situated so far down to your throat.


Punk's dick? No, he's a disgusting piece of shit.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> :lmao
> 
> So Rock's Shtick is corny, Nash is out of touch but breaking kayfabe is new and "cool"
> NEWS FLASH Punk, people already done it 15 years ago.
> ...


This guy is such a cornball. He's like the Freddie Gibbs of the WWE. He sits around a critique everyone else but yet he's not really making an impact. "I want to make this cool again". Well Punk, if your cool personality didn't come out so forced maybe you would be drawing higher main event segments than DU-Riley


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)




----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> This thread is pretty pathetic
> 
> Congratulations. D'you want a medal? Or a gold star maybe? I don't know what you think you've achieved by 'proving' (I put that in quote marks because I've not been following the argument so don't know if you have or not) CM Punk is not a draw?


Nothing, just bring his hardcore marks back to reality.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Punk is a joke.


----------



## diorama (Feb 4, 2009)

greendayedgehead said:


> Congratulations. D'you want a medal? Or a gold star maybe? I don't know what you think you've achieved by 'proving' (I put that in quote marks because I've not been following the argument so don't know if you have or not) CM Punk is not a draw?


This is what I just don't get here. I don't know what is so satisfying in proving someone is (or not) a draw.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol @ Premeditated putting "have sex" in the signature to diss CM Punk. I'm pretty sure you'd wish you lived his sex life, as he has Beth Phoenix which I'm sure any hetero male would want. And there's rumors saying he's a manwhore which suggests that he has gone through most of the divas in the lockerroom. Now that's a winner right there!


Is this how petty it's gotten. Really.


Rock316AE said:


> Nothing, just bring his hardcore marks back to reality.


it's funny, because the only hardcore mark here is you


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

lol @ The Rock being out of touch. If anything, Punk is the one out of touch because he's been loosing some casual viewers.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> This guy is such a cornball. He's like the Freddie Gibbs of the WWE. He sits around a critique everyone else but yet he's not really making an impact. "I want to make this cool again". Well Punk, if your cool personality didn't come out so forced maybe you would be drawing higher main event segments than DU-Riley


True.
"Cool" is natural, Punk is desperate to be cool, that's why he'll never be.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

Punk marks vs Rock marks 5.0

Lovin' it.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Lol @ Premeditated putting "have sex" in the signature to diss CM Punk. I'm pretty sure you'd wish you lived his sex life, as he has Beth Phoenix which I'm sure any hetero male would want. And there's rumors saying he's a manwhore which suggests that he has gone through most of the divas in the lockerroom. Now that's a winner right there!


lol as if bagging Beth is some big accomplishment. Now, as for Maria, yeah, I'll give him props on that. But how do we know if they was fucking or not?


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

People like Premed, capat/Internet Champion/John Laurinaitis and that Rocky fan complain so much about how shitty wrestling is today, yet they're a huge part of what's slowly ruining it. I've never met a group of people who get so riled up about people liking and supporting an aspect of wrestling, to even go to the extent of doing everything in their power to prove he "isn't a draw". It's sad. This is why wrestlers, promoters and important people don't take fans on the Internet seriously.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> True.
> "Cool" is natural, Punk is desperate to be cool, that's why he'll never be.


correct..

look ma i'm shooting shit was never cool.


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

When did this thread turn into Punk vs. Rock? Maybe that answers one of my original questions from a couple pages ago. May I ask the Punk haters on why they are so fixated on proving Punk is not a draw? Whether he is a draw or not, he has been the most entertaining wrestler on RAW. We could always substitute Punk for John Morrison. Now that would be extremely entertaining to watch. Morrison stumbling through a promo with Kevin Nash and Triple H. Or how about we substitute Punk for The Miz. Now that would be fun to watch. We can see The Miz cut a formula promo, then have him go out there and have an average match.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Deebow said:


> When did this thread turn into Punk vs. Rock? Maybe that answers one of my original questions from a couple pages ago. May I ask the Punk haters on why they are so fixated on proving Punk is not a draw? Whether he is a draw or not, he has been the most entertaining wrestler on RAW. We could always substitute Punk for John Morrison. Now that would be extremely entertaining to watch. Morrison stumbling through a promo with Kevin Nash and Triple H. Or how about we substitute Punk for The Miz. Now that would be fun to watch. We can see The Miz cut a formula promo, then have him go out there and have an average match.


talking reality?

and would you like to explain why you brought morrison and miz.. completely unrelated to punk anyway?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and cause Rock is half as relevant as Punk, and also half as cool.


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> talking reality?
> 
> and would you like to explain why you brought morrison and miz.. completely unrelated to punk anyway?


I brought up Miz and Morrison to put over that Punk has been the most entertaining wrestler on RAW. Also, I was trying to get the Punk haters like yourself to explain why you dislike Punk, and why you are so fixated on proving why he isn't a draw.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and *cause Rock is half as relevant as Punk*, and also half as cool.


:lmao










Punk?


> CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio at 10pm gained just 15,000 viewers, *which is the lowest number for the 10pm timeslot in a while.*


----------



## diorama (Feb 4, 2009)

Alberto del Rio said:


> talking reality?


Just curious mate. If finally you successfully prove that Punk is not a draw, then what?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Oooh statistics, I'm quaking in my boots. 

Punk is the star of RAW. Rock is a part timer. Umad?


----------



## AMxPunk (Jul 1, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and cause Rock is half as relevant as Punk, and also half as cool.


There will be a day in the future where people will finally see how big Punk was in the "past" and may even be bigger than the Rock in the future.I live in the middle east and allot of people know Punk,Allot hate and allot love him but he's extremely popular.There are some people who just don't like him for personal reasons,But meh


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and cause *Rock is half as relevant as Punk*, and also half as cool.


Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to defend Punk also, but this has to be the stupidest thing I have ever read.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Oooh statistics, I'm quaking in my boots.
> 
> Punk is the star of RAW. Rock is a part timer. Umad?


part timer draws bigger than the full timer..

upset much??

you always have mitb match to masturbate with


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and cause Rock is half as relevant as Punk, and also half as cool.


:lmao
Punk is mad because DuuuuWayne gets to come back to the WWE when ever him wants, brings in new viewers just by even standing up in the ring and not saying anything and gets all the love from the fans. Punk should be careful because if the Rock was to come back this Monday, nobody would give a fuck about this angle. All the hype will be on DuuuuuuWaaaaaayne.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Rock316AE said:


> True.
> "Cool" is natural, Punk is desperate to be cool, that's why he'll never be.


Ha, Punk is naturally cool. Punk is one of the coolest people you'll ever see - he just exudes coolness... which is why he has so many fans. Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless.



Premeditated said:


> lol as if bagging Beth is some big accomplishment. Now, as for Maria, yeah, I'll give him props on that. But *how do we know if they was fucking or not?*


Well, in Maria's shoot interview, someone asked how big Punk's dick was, and she said it was a "good size" - so I'd say they were. Maria's not exactly a wallflower either.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

diorama said:


> Just curious mate. If finally you successfully prove that Punk is not a draw, then what?


i'm going to save the forum over the top mark-ism.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

AMxPunk said:


> *There will be a day in the future where people will finally see how big Punk was in the "past" and may even be bigger than the Rock in the future.I live in the middle east and allot of people know Punk*,Allot hate and allot love him but he's extremely popular.There are some people who just don't like him for personal reasons,But meh


:lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## Stad (Apr 6, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> i'm going to save the forum over the top mark-ism.


Yea, ok.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Alberto del Rio said:


> i'm going to save the forum over the top mark-ism.


Really? I'm guessing (and hoping) you're going to get banned before you can "save" anything.


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> i'm going to save the forum over the top mark-ism.


Good for you. Good luck.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> Well, in Maria's shoot interview, someone asked how big Punk's dick was, and she said it was a "good size" - so I'd say they were. Maria's not exactly a wallflower either.


*scoffs*

WOOOOOW!!!

You know you done fucked up right? you you done fucked up?

Is your love for Punk so deep to the point that, you remember what his ex said about his penis size? :lmao:lmao

lol @ you getting a fuzzy feeling when she said that. hahahaha


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

It's obvious that Punk is jealous, he wrestle 300 days a year and nobody gives a shit, then Rock comes back and gets all the credit and crowd reactions that he wouldn't get even if he kills himself on live TV, it's eats him inside.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> *scoffs*
> 
> WOOOOOW!!!
> 
> ...


You don't watch many shoots, do you?


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> *scoffs*
> 
> WOOOOOW!!!
> 
> ...


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> *scoffs*
> 
> WOOOOOW!!!
> 
> ...



:lmao:lmao:lmao


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> i'm going to save the forum over the top mark-ism.


Who do you think you are? :lmao

Statements like this are just laughable. There's not one individual who can "save" anything if we are being realistic.


----------



## Deebow (Jan 2, 2011)

Wow, this thread has gone completely off topic.


----------



## AMxPunk (Jul 1, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> :lmao
> Punk is mad because DuuuuWayne gets to come back to the WWE when ever him wants, brings in new viewers just by even standing up in the ring and not saying anything and gets all the love from the fans. Punk should be careful because if the Rock was to come back this Monday, nobody would give a fuck about this angle. All the hype will be on DuuuuuuWaaaaaayne.


I don't get you,You say your a Punk fan but I always find you against Punk in this forum 

Anywho

The Rock is bigger than Punk NOW because he's already done this and that.CM Punk is STILL doing the things in order to become real big.Ofcourse the Rock would out-shine Punk,He's not only a WWE legend but is a movie star in Hollywood.Now lets head into the future where Punk is real old in wrestling age wise and still wrestling,Do you really think the Rock will still out draw him?.CM Punk isn't as big as the Rock because he's no legend currently,But what if suddenly Punk achieves things like win the Royal Rumble and win the WWE title time and time again? CM Punk has already done things the Rock has never done like with the MITB ladder match TWICE in a row.When CM Punk truly becomes a legend,Would the Rock outshine him? No 

You can call me a dumb Punk mark all you want,But you know only a few people here are crazy Punk marks and are usually the younger newer Punk fans.I've been a fan of his since his days in ECW and set him as my favorite over guys like HBK and Triple H and all of the WWE,That's just me


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> part timer draws bigger than the full timer..
> 
> upset much??
> 
> you always have mitb match to masturbate with


I'm not upset at all, since I have little interest in who draws for the company because I don't work for them. If you're trying to share spank bank material with me, watching body breaking ladder matches isn't exactly my thing, but you might like Rocky kissing Mae Young for yours. Whatever floats your boat.



Premeditated said:


> :lmao
> Punk is mad because DuuuuWayne gets to come back to the WWE when ever him wants, brings in new viewers just by even standing up in the ring and not saying anything and gets all the love from the fans. Punk should be careful because if the Rock was to come back this Monday, nobody would give a fuck about this angle. All the hype will be on DuuuuuuWaaaaaayne.


Oh, okay. I for one would be more interested in what has an actual storyline, not the lalalawww catchphrase spewing 'people's champ'.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> Who do you think you are? :lmao
> 
> Statements like this are just laughable. There's not one individual who can "save" anything if we are being realistic.


and you thought Punk's gonna save wrestling?


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Premeditated said:


> *scoffs*
> 
> WOOOOOW!!!
> 
> ...


You asked a question and I answered it. That shoot question was out of the ordinary, so yeah I'd say it would be something you'd remember from that interview. Also, "you done fucked up" - is that English?.


----------



## Stad (Apr 6, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> and you thought Punk's gonna save wrestling?


And you think Del Rio is?

:lmao


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

*SAVEUSADR.*

:lmao :lmao :lmao

This shit is way too much.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

AMxPunk said:


> I don't get you,You say your a Punk fan but I always find you against Punk in this forum
> 
> Anywho
> 
> ...


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> You asked a question and I answered it.


it doesn't matter. I was only halfway kidding? But the fact that you actually remember how she describe hi........you know what? this is getting gross talking about another man's penis, gonna stop? You can go on if you want, since you know what she said so vividly? lol


----------



## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

Another Rock v Punk discussion.


----------



## Stad (Apr 6, 2011)

Wouldn't be surprised if "Alberto Del Rio" was capat, since his internet championship account just got banned.

Types exactly like him.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

mblonde09 said:


> Ha, Punk is naturally cool. Punk is one of the coolest people you'll ever see - he just exudes coolness... which is why he has so many fans. Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless.
> 
> 
> Well, in Maria's shoot interview, someone asked how big Punk's dick was, and she said it was a "good size" - so I'd say they were. Maria's not exactly a wallflower either.


I'm sorry but this post made me :lmao. Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless? Jesus Christ this thing is getting out of hand.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Starbuck said:


> I'm sorry but this post made me :lmao. Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless? Jesus Christ this thing is getting out of hand.


Well, it's true. How can you say Punk isn't cool?


----------



## Illmatic (Jun 17, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> lol as if bagging Beth is some big accomplishment. Now, as for Maria, yeah, I'll give him props on that. But how do we know if they was fucking or not?


hahah she said on an interview that his dick was quite large.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

I guess people get a hard-on by the anti-establishment, rebellious guys with tattoos that claim to be Straightedge. Quite a weird ass formula.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

don't forget about the second half.


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm gonna go make that sandwich...


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> Well, it's true. How can you say Punk isn't cool?


It's down to opinion


RonBurgundy01 said:


> hahah she said on an interview that his dick was quite large.


:shocked:


DoYouRealize? said:


> I guess people get a hard-on by the anti-establishment, rebellious guys with tattoos that claim to be Straightedge. Quite a weird ass formula.


Only when you have a face like his.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

DoYouRealize? said:


> I guess people get a hard-on by the anti-establishment, rebellious guys with tattoos *that claim to be Straightedge.* Quite a weird ass formula.


fpalm


----------



## AMxPunk (Jul 1, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


>


If Punk achieves those things will he still be smaller than the Rock? Simply because the Rock was a part of the attitude era doesn't mean he's the best to all eyes.Days pass,New generations are born and you want us to keep looking at the Rock as the one who draws? You shouldn't dwell on the past and look into the future.Because if you keep looking at the past you have no future.Its guys like CM Punk,John Cena,Randy Orton and Edge that are going to be remembered as big legends in the future.The Rock and Stone Cold will be remembered but will be remembered as "older guys".Do you see anybody talking about Orton's dad? No,Your being silly and you know it


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> Well, it's true. How can you say Punk isn't cool?


Yeah, "I'm Here To Make This Shit Cool Again" LOL.

next week? 2.9:lmao


----------



## God Movement (Aug 3, 2011)

This whole Punk is super cool discussion just sounds like a shitload of dickriding.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

mblonde09 said:


> Well, it's true. How can you say Punk isn't cool?


I'm not saying that all. I do actually think Punk's pretty cool in his own way. But Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless? Come on lol.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

AMxPunk said:


> If Punk achieves those things will he still be smaller than the Rock?


Yes.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> fpalm


What? You got mad that easily? 

He claims to be Straightedge. If he actually applies it to his life is beyond me.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> Yeah, "I'm Here To Make This Shit Cool Again" LOL.
> 
> next week? 2.9:lmao


Austin had some ratings lower than that during his rise to the top. Ratings don't happen overnight (and they probably never will get that big again because the business just isn't in the position for it to happen). Not to mention, a 2.9 now is bigger than a 2.9 during Austin's rise because there's so much more on television than there was in 1996. He's currently the #2 merchandise seller after Cena, so he's making a pretty good amount of money for the WWE.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

stadw0n306 said:


> And you think Del Rio is?
> 
> :lmao


del rio never said he's going to make wrestling 'cool'

2.9..


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> Austin had some ratings lower than that during his rise to the top. Ratings don't happen overnight.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

DoYouRealize? said:


> What? You got mad that easily?
> 
> He claims to be Straightedge. If he actually applies it to his life is beyond me.


Nice quote to go with your sig.


----------



## AMxPunk (Jul 1, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Yes.




It seems you mistake your opinion with fact.You cannot "assume" how things will go into the future simply because you love the Rock,Maybe to you the Rock will always be bigger but not to everybody in the world.Yeah your a Rocky Mark,Congrats


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


>


not even that. Ratings have gotten lower ever since Punk became the focal point. People heard that ADR captured the WWE championship, so they toned in. Which is why the ratings were 3.4 last week. But then the casual fans realized that the CM Punk storyline was still going on and was still going to be the main person of the show instead of Del Rio. they got tired of it. That is why the ratings are 2.9.


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


>


He still overtook them when WCW was red hot with Goldberg at his peak. As I said, it doesn't happen overnight, no matter what they're going up against.

Punk isn't some kind of super draw or anything, but he's doing very well considering that he's bringing in a lot of money through merchandise and if you look at the breakdown of Raw, Punk, Cena, Triple H and Miz are the only people who don't lose viewers on their segments, which is why it's ridiculous to blame him for low ratings. WWE literally has a midcard that could change with TNA's and the viewers wouldn't even notice.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

But Yeah he dont draw, I mean yeah every segmant he's in gets the highest viewing figures of the night. And his T-shirts are selling like hot cakes, and buyrates for the PPV that was built around him increased. B-b-b-but 2.9 and that.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> But Yeah he dont draw, *I mean yeah every segmant he's in gets the highest viewing figures of the night.* And his T-shirts are selling like hot cakes, and buyrates for the PPV that was built around him increased. B-b-b-but 2.9 and that.


Oh my God.

Again, his segments are usually the highest because he's always in the time-slots where the ratings always do the highest. Beginning, top of the hour and main event.


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

DoYouRealize? said:


> What? *You got mad that easily?*
> 
> He claims to be Straightedge. If he actually applies it to his life is beyond me.


Didn't get mad - merely face-palming at your stupidity. Why would he get "Straight-Edge" and "Drug-Free" inked on his body of he wasn't?



Starbuck said:


> I'm not saying that all. I do actually think Punk's pretty cool in his own way. But Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless? Come on lol.


That Rock mark said that "cool is natural" and then said Punk is desperate to be cool. All I'm saying is Punk does have a natural coolness about him, and he doesn't need any effort to be look/sound cool, that's all. "Punk's cool is natural, Punk's cool is effortless" - that's is a pretty good line though, someone should sig that, lol.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Tyrion Lannister said:


> He still overtook them when WCW was red hot with Goldberg at his peak. As I said, it doesn't happen overnight, no matter what they're going up against.
> 
> Punk isn't some kind of super draw or anything, but he's doing very well considering that he's bringing in a lot of money through merchandise and if you look at the breakdown of Raw, Punk, Cena, Triple H and Miz are the only people who don't lose viewers on their segments, which is why it's ridiculous to blame him for low ratings. WWE literally has a midcard that could change with TNA's and the viewers wouldn't even notice.


overnight? it's been two months and the ratings go down every week.
Punk is not Austin, the comparison is irrelevant.


Premeditated said:


> not even that. *Ratings have gotten lower ever since Punk became the focal point*. People heard that ADR captured the WWE championship, so they toned in. Which is why the ratings were 3.4 last week. But then the casual fans realized that the CM Punk storyline was still going on and was still going to be the main person of the show instead of Del Rio. they got tired of it. That is why the ratings are 2.9.


True.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> But Yeah he dont draw, I mean yeah every segmant he's in gets the highest viewing figures of the night.





> CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio at 10pm gained just 15,000 viewers, which is the lowest number for the 10pm timeslot in a while.


^


----------



## mblonde09 (Aug 15, 2009)

Premeditated said:


> not even that. Ratings have gotten lower ever since Punk became the focal point. *People heard that ADR captured the WWE championship, so they toned in. Which is why the ratings were 3.4 last week. But then the casual fans realized that the CM Punk storyline was still going on and was still going to be the main person of the show instead of Del Rio. they got tired of it. That is why the ratings are 2.9.*


If you truly believe that to be true, then you're a bigger clown than I thought. You really think the casuals are tuning in to see Del Rio? That must be why his match lost nearly 800,000 viewers this week:lmao


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> overnight? it's been two months and the ratings go down every week.
> Punk is not Austin, the comparison is irrelevant.


I realize he's not Austin, but still. He's doing well considering that his segments are basically the only ones that still keep viewers, his merchandise is flying off the shelves and he gets the biggest pops on the show.

Isn't Cena supposed to be the huge draw? So why is the blame not falling on him? He's the one people are sick of.



> If you truly believe that to be true, then you're a bigger clown than I thought. You really think the casuals are tuning in to see Del Rio? That must be why his match lost nearly 800,000 viewers this week :lmao


Actually, Morrison was the reason for that. Del Rio being in the match produced higher numbers than when Morrison fought Truth the week before.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Premeditated said:


> Oh my God.
> 
> Again, his segments are usually the highest because he's always in the time-slots where the ratings always do the highest. Beginning, top of the hour and main event.


You admitted yesterday that youre just a troll, therefore all the bullshit that comes out of your mouth is just that. So stop seeking attention, you're not smart and you're not funny, but you are wrong because Punk is a draw, the viewing figures and the T-shirt sales are evidence of this fact, and I could just reply to whatever pathetic comment you post about me, but i,m not gonna be feeding a troll because unlke you, I have better things to do with my time.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> If you truly believe that to be true, then you're a bigger clown than I thought. You really think the casuals are tuning in to see Del Rio? That must be why his match lost nearly 800,000 viewers this week:lmao


The Monday before SS, Punk vs Del Rio match top of the hour only gained 15k viewers. One of the lowest in that time slot in years.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> You admitted yesterday that youre just a troll, therefore all the bullshit that comes out of your mouth is just that. So stop seeking attention, you're not smart and you're not funny, but you are wrong because Punk is a draw, the viewing figures and the T-shirt sales are evidence of this fact, and I could just reply to whatever pathetic comment you post about me, but i,m not gonna be feeding a troll because unlke you, I have better things to do with my time.


Please find that post where I admitted it.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

> I'm never afraid to admit when I'm wrong. But obviously, I was doing some hardcore instigating in this thread on purpose.


No one ever take this troll seriously ever again, my work is done.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

double post


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

mblonde09 said:


> Didn't get mad - merely face-palming at your stupidity. Why would he get "Straight-Edge" and "Drug-Free" inked on his body of he wasn't?


That's why you resort to name calling, eh? I don't have Punk on a pedestal unlike you to know what the fuck he has inked in his body.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> No one ever take this troll seriously ever again, my work is done.


again, where did I say I was trolling? seems like you don't know how to interpret sentences. Anyways, I'm done with you. You're obviously trolling trying to bring up things that are relevant. I won't feed the troll.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

I like pie.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Punk gets more pie in one night than Dwayne does in a lifetime.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

He's a draw, but not as much as Punk marks thought he would


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Obviously he is. Anyone who gets ovations and chants like he does can clearly draw. It's like saying Orton can't draw when he commands a huge ovation every time his music hits. Of course it's Smackdown! and shit gets piped in, but who else are the fans excited to see? No one on Smackdown! can draw more than Orton. If you ask someone attending Smackdown! who they're excited to see the most it's mostly going to be Orton.

Back to Punk though, yes, he's beginning to draw. Before the last few months, not so much. By the end of next year he'll probably be close to Cena in draw power. Only reason why Punk wouldn't surpass him is because Cena's been Cena for 6 years and Punk, by the end of next year, will only have been drawing for 18 months.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure Premeditated's sig is over the size limit.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

CM Punk in not a draw. As a matter of fact nobody is a draw in wrestling except for one wrestler.



















Inanimate Steel Pipe is the best wrestler today. WWE needs to push Inanimate Steel Pipe as a main eventer so that Raw can get a rating of 9.5.


----------



## DoYouRealize??? (Jul 24, 2011)

Smith_Jensen said:


> CM Punk in not a draw. As a matter of fact nobody is a draw in wrestling except for one wrestler.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cody Rhodes: "In the hands of any other rassler, this is just a plain, ol' boring steel pipe, but in mah hands, this steel pipe becomes RA... TINGS!


----------



## GuruOfMarkness (Aug 10, 2011)

It's a little too early to tell. The most important thing is money though and Punk apparently is selling a crap load. I like to quote my sources but I don't know how many of those shirts they made so I going off of what I see in the crowd. Anyway, Punk is not a draw by himself. Maybe not even Cena. When you bring in someone like The Rock, he'll pop a 4.0 or 5.0 for that segment and people tune out and leave. That's a draw. But no one on the roster is that talented to do that anymore, and the ones that might have a chance to do that are on Superstars or jobbing.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Now that this thread has lost all value and meaning, I will just post a picture of a surfboard to end this dumbass filled thread


----------



## The Main Headliner (Mar 5, 2009)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and cause Rock is half as relevant as Punk, and also half as cool.



Lmfao. Dude the banging comment makes no sense. The rock is a Hollywood star, he can bang way hotter girls than that lmfao. Sure a dude who single handedly got Mania past 1 million buys, mainstream attention, and a true spike in ratings is irrelevent compared to a rising star who recently had to use the rocks Internet promo to diss cena. Come on my, punk is awesome but really?! Lmfao!!!!' gtfoh!


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

Woohooo.. cant wait for Uncharted 3!!!!!!!..


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

MITB got 265,000 buys, the third highest of the year so far. It would have been MUCH higher had the UK had to buy it too :lmao



> The 2011 WWE Money in the Bank PPV garnered over 265,000 worldwide buys, according to WWE's latest performance indicators released to stockholders.
> This buyrate would be up over 100,000 buys from the debut Money in the Bank PPV, which drew 165,00 buys worldwide.
> 
> That pretty much tells the tale that the CM Punk angle leading into the PPV and his challenge of John Cena certainly turned heads and made people part with their money. This buyrate was the company's best of the year outside of Wrestlemania and the Royal Rumble.


Source: http://www.pwinsider.com/article/61...gtime-thanks-to-cm-punk-vs-john-cena.html?p=1

"B-b-b-b-but...Punk isn't supposed to draw" right guys? He's just a scrawny kid who can't draw jackshit. Right?

Premedited? InternetChamp? Any Punk hater? You guys still here? Of coure you aren't. :lmao

Sadly enough, we'll soon be hearing stuff like "Cena drew that buyrate", or "The MITB matches drew the buyrate".


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Punk haters = owned. 

Sadly, we will hear the same stupid excuses from them though. Just wait for it.


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

I cant wait for Assassins Creed Revelations either.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

zkorejo said:


> I cant wait for Assassins Creed Revelations either.


Nah man, Gears of War 3 is where its at


----------



## NWOWolfpack13 (Feb 2, 2010)

Does a priest have sex with children ?


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Jersey Shore should be good tonight.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

NWOWolfpack13 said:


> Does a priest have sex with children ?


Does CM Punk draw?


----------



## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

jblvdx said:


> Nah man, Gears of War 3 is where its at


GeOW3 is good.. but GOTY is uncharted 3.. u know it!!

Arkham City looks good too.. cant wait.!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Uncharted 3 is where it's at. That games looks fucking amazing.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

psx71 said:


> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
> 
> MITB got 265,000 buys, the third highest of the year so far. It would have been MUCH higher had the UK had to buy it too :lmao
> 
> ...



this is one ppv, with massive hype around it. If people are too quick to jump to conclusions with ratings, it's too quick to jump to conclusions based on one ppv. If summerslam is way up too then maybe you can say punk is a draw. I think summerslam is the better gauge now that the hysteria around punk's work shoot has worn off.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> this is one ppv, with massive hype around it. If people are too quick to jump to conclusions with ratings, it's too quick to jump to conclusions based on one ppv. If summerslam is way up too then maybe you can say punk is a draw. I think summerslam is the better gauge now that the hysteria around punk's work shoot has worn off.


This is ONE ppv, with massive hype around it, and who was that hype based all around? CM Punk. That's who.

Unfortunately, when the SummerSlam buyrate DOES come out, and if it is higher, then I expect to hear this:

"B-b-b-but! It's SummerSlam! It's the second biggest PPV of the year, which is why it's going to have a bigger buyrate!"
"B-b-b-but! SummerSlam had a better card, AND it was hyped up like hell by 7-11!"
"B-b-b-but! People wanted to see Christian vs. Orton! Not Punk!"

Update to the buyrate, it's actually 276,000. This is getting better by the second :lmao


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Okay then, I guess those 276,000+ people worldwide who purchased this throwaway B-PPV are all Internet smarks, right?

This thread is about to get real quiet.


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> Punk haters = owned.
> 
> Sadly, we will hear the same stupid excuses from them though. Just wait for it.


Second time they get owned bad this week.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

Wonder what the numbers would look like with England not having the free PPV for MitB.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

What so great about this number? this is expected, Morrison in a B PPV brought 209,000 without all the hype and without breaking kayfabe.
LOL at you all Punk marks excited like a dog who threw him a bone.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> What so great about this number? this is expected, Morrison in a B PPV bought 209,000 without all the hype and without breaking kayfabe.
> LOL at you all Punk marks excited like a dog who threw him a bone.


considering the year prior had 100,000 buys yes this is big new for punk imo


----------



## Fenice (Nov 4, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> IMO buyrates are a much better sign of someone's drawing ability than ratings. In 2011 you can DVR RAW, you can watch in Youtube, stream it etc.


And this is something that many people will never understand. Am I a fan of Punk? Very much so and have been for years, but if anyone seriously thinks that an outdated system can determine who is a draw ratings wise nowadays, they have no idea what they are talking about. 

This is the same reason that shows, with huge fanbase, get cancelled. People pay way too much attention to ratings in an age where there are numerous outlets for media. When Raw drops below a 2, then worry. Until then, just enjoy the show.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> What so great about this number? this is expected, Morrison in a B PPV brought 209,000 without all the hype and without breaking kayfabe.
> LOL at you all Punk marks excited like a dog who threw him a bone.


OH MY FUCKING GOD! JESUS CHRIST! THE STUPIDITY!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> What so great about this number? this is expected, Morrison in a B PPV brought 209,000 without all the hype and without breaking kayfabe.
> LOL at you all Punk marks excited like a dog who threw him a bone.


Just stop man. The discussion whether Punk is a "draw" or not is over :lmao

/thread


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> What so great about this number? this is expected, Morrison in a B PPV brought 209,000 without all the hype and without breaking kayfabe.
> LOL at you all Punk marks excited like a dog who threw him a bone.


Yeah, a 100,000+ increase in buys is _totally_ expected when it comes to B PPVs.  Trying to bring Morrison and Extreme Rules into this shows that you have lost.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Pyro pretty much summed it up


Tyrion Lannister said:


> Ouch. There's your proof Punk can't draw, the highest buyrate outside of the 2 biggest PPV's of the entire year even when one of the biggest markets gets it for free.


----------



## TheRock316 (Apr 18, 2003)

Yes, im gonna buy his shirt. This is the first time I will buy something from wwe.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

psx71 said:


> Just stop man. The discussion whether Punk is a "draw" or not is over :lmao
> 
> /thread


He's not.
where is the "MORRISON IS A DRAW" thread?


> the Extreme Rules PPV after WrestleMania drew 209,000 buys, up 13% from the 182,000 buys in 2010


Punk is a flavor of the month and i was more interested in the crowd reaction than his match.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> He's not.
> where is the "MORRISON IS A DRAW" thread?
> 
> 
> Punk is a flavor of the month and i was more interested in the crowd reaction than his match.


well seeing how morrison 2 weeks straight on raw lost alot of viewers and look what punk did just this week on raw and look what morrison did



> *the opening segment with Alberto Del Rio, John Cena, C.M. Punk and HHH did a 3.29 first quarter.* A disaster is that Del Rio vs. *John Morrison lost 777,000 viewers*. Nikki Bella vs. Eve Torres stayed even. Jack Swagger vs. Alex Riley lost 105,000 viewers and did a 2.72 quarter, one of the lowest of the year not including the 7/4 show. *The in-ring with HHH, Kevin Nash and C.M. Punk gained 597,000 viewers*, which is slightly better than average for the slot. But the tag title win by Kofi Kingston & Evan Bourne over David Otunga & Michael McGillicutty lost 494,000 viewers. The Miz & R-Truth promo gained 148,000 viewers. *Cena vs. Punk was a big success, gaining 1,186,000 viewers to a 3.65 overrun.* Essentially what has happened is they’ve buried the mid-card, and the fans see Del Rio and Morrison as mid-card, so you’ve got Cena, Punk, HHH and Nash


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> He's not.
> where is the "MORRISON IS A DRAW" thread?
> 
> 
> Punk is a flavor of the month and i was more interested in the crowd reaction than his match.


Morrison didn't get the buyrate up over a 100,000 buys up from last year, did he? 

EDIT: PLUS, he's been losing viewers for his matches, even with the Champion del Rio, how the fuck does someone manage that? :lmao


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

lololol you're really comparing a 27,000 increase to a 100,000+ increase? I think you're forgetting that the UK had to actually pay for Extreme Rules yet the buyrate for MITB was STILL high. 209,000 is absolutely nothing and one of the worst buys they've had.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Riley drew bigger numbers than Punk on RAW...
besides that, Vince and Cena did a lot of hype for MITB.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

john morrison was not even on mitb ppv because he was still injured


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Riley drew bigger numbers than Punk on RAW...





> *the opening segment with Alberto Del Rio, John Cena, C.M. Punk and HHH did a 3.29 first quarter.*
> 
> *Jack Swagger vs. Alex Riley lost 105,000 viewers and did a 2.72 quarter, one of the lowest of the year not including the 7/4 show. *
> 
> ...


nice try tho lol


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Riley drew bigger numbers than Punk on RAW...


My fucking god. All your troll friends have gone away with their tails tucked between their legs, yet you stay? Atleast they have the sensibility to admit their wrong by not posting back replies to obvious cold hard facts, yet you can't give up, can you?


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

:lmao keep reaching.

It is way too early to call Punk a draw or not, but it is glaringly obvious that people want to see him and people don't mind paying money to watch and support him. Shown through merch sales, PPV buys, viewership numbers, mainstream attention and audience reaction. You can't call somebody a draw after two PPVs and a few months of pushing, nor can you say they can't draw after two PPVs and a few months of booking. Punk has had some incredible success and there is no reason to believe he can't be one of the company's, hell, one of WRESTLING'S main draws and attractions in the years to come.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

I'm not in any competition man, MITB hype:


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

wait. I don't get it. Is 275k suppose to be amazing numbers?:lmao

Punk marks are really getting a hard on, off of 275k? Oh my. This was suppose to be one of the highest buyrates in a couple of years. According to you guys. That is pretty disappointing. I was expecting 400k. Not even that. MITB, sells itself. Last years was it's first year established. People heard alot of hype from it last year, so they wanted to find out for themselves.

lol.


----------



## AlcoholicA LFC (Jan 13, 2009)

Punk has drawn me into watching Raw every week again without fail, that's all I really care about to be honest. I'll also be buying his new t-shirt, which is awesome may I add.


----------



## Volantredx (May 27, 2011)

Watch MiTB if anyone in that crowd carried about any match than Punk v. Cena I would be shocked.


----------



## p862011 (Jan 6, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> wait. I don't get it. Is 275k suppose to be amazing numbers?:lmao
> 
> Punk marks are really getting a hard on, off of 275k? Oh my. This was suppose to be one of the highest buyrates in a couple of years. According to you guys. That is pretty disappointing. I was expecting 400k. Not even that. MITB, sells itself. Last years was it's first year established. People heard alot of hype from it last year, so they wanted to find out for themselves.
> 
> lol.


last year was 100,000 this year 275,000

that is incredible numbers for a b show ppv that had all of england getting it for free


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> I'm not in any competition man, MITB hype:


You wanna talk ratings and how "RATINGS MATTER?". Fine, We will. The show that that happened got a 2.4 rating. By your logic, LESS people watched that segment, meaning it basically had little to no effect on the buyrate.

I'm not saying what I just said was right OR wrong, I'm just going by your troll's logic.



Premeditated said:


> wait. I don't get it. Is 275k suppose to be amazing numbers?:lmao
> 
> Punk marks are really getting a hard on, off of 275k? Oh my. This was suppose to be one of the highest buyrates in a couple of years. According to you guys. That is pretty disappointing. I was expecting 400k. Not even that. MITB, sells itself. Last years was it's first year established. People heard alot of hype from it last year, so they wanted to find out for themselves.
> 
> lol.


Seeing as it's the highest buyrate for a NON Big 4 PPV ever since Elimination Chamber 2010, AND it would have been MUCH higher if UK had to buy it, you tell me whether or not Punk's drawing


----------



## antoniomare007 (Jun 24, 2007)

how can people show ratings as prove of someone drawing money or not....are people really this stupid?? holy shit.


----------



## vanboxmeer (Aug 27, 2007)

If you read the web site, the buys for Money in the Bank were 185,000 and domestic were 134,000.

The 276,000 number includes about 70,000 buys because they estimated low on Mania.

If you go to the web site and look at buys from the quarter not including late buys from the previous quarter, the numbers for both worldwide and domestic are right there.

Let me know when the corrections are made from the people reporting that didn't know how to read the tables after how many years.


----------



## Volantredx (May 27, 2011)

psx71 said:


> My fucking god. All your troll friends have gone away with their tails tucked between their legs, yet you stay? Atleast they have the sensibility to admit their wrong by not posting back replies to obvious cold hard facts, yet you can't give up, can you?


It's due to his crush on the Rock. Punk says some mean things about Rock and this ass hat has to defend the man he loves.


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> wait. I don't get it. Is 275k suppose to be amazing numbers?:lmao
> 
> Punk marks are really getting a hard on, off of 275k? Oh my. This was suppose to be one of the highest buyrates in a couple of years. According to you guys. That is pretty disappointing. I was expecting 400k. Not even that. MITB, sells itself. Last years was it's first year established. People heard alot of hype from it last year, so they wanted to find out for themselves.
> 
> lol.


You do realize that one of their biggest markets got the PPV for free, right?


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> wait. I don't get it. Is 275k suppose to be amazing numbers?:lmao
> 
> Punk marks are really getting a hard on, off of 275k? Oh my. This was suppose to be one of the highest buyrates in a couple of years. According to you guys. That is pretty disappointing. I was expecting 400k. Not even that. *MITB, sells itself. Last years was it's first year established. People heard alot of hype from it last year, so they wanted to find out for themselves.*
> 
> lol.


This.
Ladder matches always sell, especially to casual fans that don't give a shit about "inside" promos.


----------



## Foz (Jul 21, 2008)

CM Punk draws me in. I think that is what's important. How is it any of our business whether it is or not. Get over it and just enjoy the fucking show.


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> :lmao keep reaching.
> 
> It is way too early to call Punk a draw or not, but it is glaringly obvious that people want to see him and people don't mind paying money to watch and support him. Shown through merch sales, PPV buys, viewership numbers, mainstream attention and audience reaction. You can't call somebody a draw after two PPVs and a few months of pushing, nor can you say they can't draw after two PPVs and a few months of booking. Punk has had some incredible success and there is no reason to believe he can't be one of the company's, hell, one of WRESTLING'S main draws and attractions in the years to come.


Merch sales, PPV buys, viewership yes, yes and yes.
Mainstream attention? What mainstream attention did punk get that Miz hasn't already gotten?


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> This.
> Ladder matches always sell, especially to casual fans that don't give a shit about "inside" promos.


Oh yeah. I heard MITB last year got an AMAZING buyrate, RIGHT? What about TLC last year, I heard that popped a decent buyrate? 

fpalm


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

vanboxmeer said:


> If you read the web site, the buys for Money in the Bank were 185,000 and domestic were 134,000.
> 
> The 276,000 number includes about 70,000 buys because they estimated low on Mania.
> 
> ...


so not only are the Punk marks giggly and singing kumayah over 275k buyrates, but those numbers might not even be true?

Punk marks can't catch a break.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

psx71 said:


> You wanna talk ratings and how "RATINGS MATTER?". Fine, We will. The show that that happened got a 2.4 rating. By your logic, LESS people watched that segment, meaning it basically had little to no effect on the buyrate.


How? 4+ million people watched RAW, only 250,000 buy the PPV.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> so not only are the Punk marks giggly and singing kumayah over 275k buyrates, but those numbers might not even be true?
> 
> Punk marks can't catch a break.


:lmao


----------



## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

LarryCoon said:


> Merch sales, PPV buys, viewership yes, yes and yes.
> Mainstream attention? What mainstream attention did punk get that Miz hasn't already gotten?


I don't just mean mainstream attention as in what shows/stations he's been on, but how many people are talking about the _angle_, something that hasn't been seen in god knows how long. Sure, Miz gets attention, but it's rarely based around whatever feud/angle he's involved in. ESPN, TMZ, GQ and so many other outlets have been talking about the buzz surrounding his promos and the huge stuff going on. With that one promo, he made it cool to talk about wrestling storylines again.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

TankOfRate said:


> I don't just mean mainstream attention as in what shows/stations he's been on, but how many people are talking about the _angle_, something that hasn't been seen in god knows how long. Sure, Miz gets attention, but it's rarely based around whatever feud/angle he's involved in. ESPN, TMZ, GQ and so many other outlets have been talking about the buzz surrounding his promos and the huge stuff going on. With that one promo, he made it cool to talk about wrestling storylines again.


If it's so cool again and "so many" people talk about this, why the ratings continue to fall every week? (Get out of your delusional bubble when you answer me please)


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Inanimate Steel Pipe is a bigger draw than Punk, Del Rio, Cena and The Rock combined. John Cena vs Inanimate Steel Pipe at Wrestlemania 28 would draw a bigger buyrate than John Cena vs The Rock


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## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> If it's so cool again and "so many" people talk about this, why the ratings continue to fall every week? (Get out of your delusional bubble when you answer me please)


I am not having the ratings discussion with you again, especially considering how many people have addressed this already.


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## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Premeditated, Rock316AE these two make no sense what does the rock do with this, keep trolling in the end punk fans is winning the battle, just wait for punk when 
he prove both of u wrong which im positive about it.. 60 people which im sure they are rock and cena marks but ofcourse 163 is better they know better 
than u both ..


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

One good thing about such threads... you find out real quick who only talks shit and can't back anything they say up. Ratings, merchandise, and now PPV buys all show that Punk is drawing. 

The one thing I find funny... most of these spouting nonsense are Rock marks... hmmmmmmm.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'd take some of the stuff about Punk not drawing more seriously if the people saying it didn't have their heads so far up their ass.


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## TankOfRate (Feb 21, 2011)

Brye said:


> I'd take some of the stuff about Punk not drawing more seriously if the people saying it didn't have their heads so far up Rock's ass.


Fixed.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

are these guys really getting a hard on over 276k? oh my.

talk about living a summer of mediocrity.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

going by you guys logic, I guess R-truth is a draw because CP ppv buyrates are way higher than the one last year right?


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## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

vanboxmeer said:


> If you read the web site, the buys for Money in the Bank were 185,000 and domestic were 134,000.
> 
> The 276,000 number includes about 70,000 buys because they estimated low on Mania.
> 
> ...


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

He is right, look atpage 3 table on the right. It says average current buys per event and it says 185k lol. There was only one ppv event so far for Q3 and that was MITB. So that means MITB got 185,000 buys. Then in the table below that one it says average buys excluding wrestlemania and the number is 185k. So 276k - 185k = all Rock

http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf

So, basically we just owe Rock more 90k ppv buys. Rock = draw!!


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Inanimate Steel Pipe's drawing power > The combined drawing power of The Rock, John Cena and CM Punk.


----------



## AlcoholicA LFC (Jan 13, 2009)

Premeditated said:


> are these guys really getting a hard on over 276k? oh my.
> 
> talk about living a summer of mediocrity.


Your signature is funny. Not the bit about Punk, the bit that seems to suggest that you drink, smoke, party and have sex. But yet you're on a wrestling forum trying to wind up CM Punk fans over his drawing power. Cool.

I don't get why douches on here can't just enjoy a show without having to bitch about ratings all the time. Who gives a shit about ratings if you enjoy the show?


----------



## Fabregas (Jan 15, 2007)

Yes but not a huge one.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premed is trolling you guys pretty hard and you guys are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao
> 
> He is right, look atpage 3 table on the right. It says average current buys per event and it says 185k lol. There was only one ppv event so far for Q3 and that was MITB. So that means MITB got 185,000 buys. Then in the table below that one it says average buys excluding wrestlemania and the number is 185k. So 276k - 185k = all Rock
> 
> ...


DAMN!!!

it was all good just an hour ago.:lmao


Somebody please go post this in the MITB buyrate thread. They're having a party in there.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

I really enjoyed arguing with Punk marks, they're so defensive and desperate it's amazing, too bad they're so delusional about their hero to the level that they enthusiastic about average numbers.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao
> 
> He is right, look atpage 3 table on the right. It says average current buys per event and it says 185k lol. There was only one ppv event so far for Q3 and that was MITB. So that means MITB got 185,000 buys. Then in the table below that one it says average buys excluding wrestlemania and the number is 185k. So 276k - 185k = all Rock
> 
> ...


What? So he didn't even make 275k? :lmao


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> I really enjoyed arguing with Punk marks, they're so defensive and desperate it's amazing, too bad they're so delusional about their hero to the level that they enthusiastic about average numbers.


You are defensive as well. You are mad that Inanimate Steel Pipe is a better wrestler and a bigger draw than The Rock.


----------



## Serpent01 (Dec 5, 2007)

LOL This argument is beyond retarded. Ratings & Buyrates dont exactly prove who is a draw or not.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

By the way, be real. You guys don't give a damn about the ratings because you guys have no expert opinion on the depth of these ratings affecting the company. You just needed an excuse to bash Punk. If Punk (just like Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena) has this much of split debate, he's doing something right. He's got you guys talking about him.


----------



## John Laurinaitis (Aug 8, 2011)




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## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Wait, what?
Did you guys even see the chart? It's showing that Money In The Bank 2011 is falling just a little bit short of Night Of Champions 2009. Night of Champions 2009 got a buyrate of 267,000....which means the 260,000-265,000 mark for MITB is accurate. 

http://postimage.org/image/1p7u2vhs4/


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## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

psx71 said:


> Wait, what?
> Did you guys even see the chart? It's showing that Money In The Bank 2011 is falling just a little bit short of Night Of Champions 2009. Night of Champions 2009 got a buyrate of 267,000....which means the 260,000-265,000 mark for MITB is accurate.
> 
> http://postimage.org/image/1p7u2vhs4/


look at page three. the number that includes the 276k says "including prior period". That means that ppv buys of wrestlemania were included in that number. The charts to the right of that chart represent MITB alone which says 185k. THis number makes sense since Vince McMahon had said that ppv buys of MITB were about 20% more than last year.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> look at page three. the number that includes the 276k says "including prior period". That means that ppv buys of wrestlemania were included in that number. The charts to the right of that chart represent MITB alone which says 185k. THis number makes sense since Vince McMahon had said that ppv buys of MITB were about 20% more than last year.


Still confusing as hell though. I'm no stock expert, so I'll look like a fool if I argue against anything business related, so I have no choice to believe you.

It's confusing though. The number of events for Q3 is listed as one, which can only be Money In The Bank, AND the Total Buys chart on Page 3 says "Q3 2011- July Only", and the only PPV that happened in July was MITB.

Again, I'm not arguing against you. It's just confusing as hell I guess.

EDIT: The dirt sheets online are still reporting 265,000 buys though. I'll reserve judgement until the third quarter results are officially released, OR, a guy who actually knows how to read charts proves it's wrong. I'm sure there should have been atleast ONE guys who would have mailed in to the sheets if they got the wrong number.


----------



## CenationHLR (Mar 31, 2011)

HE IS NOT A DRAW!! CM Punk is only relevant now because he is a feud with Cena. After the feud ends he will be back to getting no reaction.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

CenationHLR said:


> HE IS NOT A DRAW!! CM Punk is only relevant now because he is a feud with Cena. After the feud ends he will be back to getting no reaction.


Yeah, because Cena went on Jimmy Kimmel, the BS Report, and mentioned on ESPN.

Wait, what?


----------



## AntMan (Jul 28, 2010)

People who crap on Punk because he's not as big draw as The Rock are fucking idiots. We will most likely never see another draw as big Austin or The Rock, especially since people seem more interested in MMA which is real. The UFC destroys WWE in PPV buys and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Why can't people like The Rock and CM Punk? Why does it to be an either or situation?


----------



## Pillzmayn (Apr 7, 2011)

CenationHLR said:


> HE IS NOT A DRAW!! CM Punk is only relevant now because he is a feud with Cena. After the feud ends he will be back to getting no reaction.


He's not even feuding with Cena right now, get your facts straight.


----------



## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Right. Some people are just idiots. I'm going to throw my two cents in.

It doesn't matter if Punk is a draw or not (you're damn right retarded if can't see if he is), you know why? Because *I* like him. Nobody is going to change my opinion on him just because they think he doesn't sell tickets or whatever. Why would it matter? Does that affect how entertaining he is? *NO.*


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Cactus said:


> Right. Some people are just idiots. I'm going to throw my two cents in.
> 
> It doesn't matter if Punk is a draw or not (you're damn right *retaded *if can't see if he is), you know why? Because *I* like him. Nobody is going to change my opinion on him just because they think he doesn't sell tickets or whatever. Why would it matter? Does that affect how entertaining he is? *NO.*


lol. nobody is tying to change your mind on liking him or not. We're just saying he's not a draw.








fyi, if you're going to call people retarded, at least get the word spelled right.


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## Cactus (Jul 28, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> lol. nobody is tying to change your mind on liking him or not. We're just saying he's not a draw.


Why does that matter though? How does that affect you? How does that affect you viewing Raw? If Punk isn't a draw, WWE will remove him from TV.


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## PacoAwesome (Jun 20, 2011)

I personally don't give a damn if Punk is a draw or not, hell most of the big "draws" in the WWE I didn't even like that much with The Rock being an exception. Punk entertains me and that is all that really matters. Cena is a big draw, but I could care less about and I can say the same for Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, and Stone Cold (I respect him as a legend, but I'm more of a Rock guy). Back on topic though, Punk is getting the biggest reactions and is shirts are selling like crack, so I believe he is a draw.


----------



## Volantredx (May 27, 2011)

AlcoholicA LFC said:


> Your signature is funny. Not the bit about Punk, the bit that seems to suggest that you drink, smoke, party and have sex. But yet you're on a wrestling forum trying to wind up CM Punk fans over his drawing power. Cool.


The best part is that he seems to think that Punk doesn't have sex. This wrong, Punk's banged his way though about a third of most women in pro wrestling today. Also does not drink and smoking make someone less cool? That's retarded, I mean I drink but I still think that someone who has the will power and conviction to go his whole life without is pretty intense.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

btw, for those of you denying the official buyrates, that Meltzer guy or report or website, whatever the fuck just confirmed that it did 185k while doing 135k domestically.


:SadCmPunkMarks:


----------



## vanboxmeer (Aug 27, 2007)

http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf

Go to page 4/7.
Clearly see 1 event for Q3 in the number of events mini-chart.
Clearly see 185k buys with 132k domestic, 53k international.

Punk only really has sold a couple of extra shirts.


----------



## Brave Nash (Jul 16, 2011)

Premeditated fuck off no one cares what you have to say its all bullshit hes better than the rock just to get u mad again :flip well he is a better wrestler you cant deny that :gun: ...


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

vanboxmeer said:


> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> 
> Go to page 4/7.
> Clearly see 1 event for Q3 in the number of events mini-chart.
> ...


so 185k?

:lmao


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

We have to wait for official numbers til November? What the...........


----------



## version 1 (Apr 6, 2005)

PacoAwesome said:


> I personally don't give a damn if Punk is a draw or not, hell most of the big "draws" in the WWE I didn't even like that much with The Rock being an exception. Punk entertains me and that is all that really matters. Cena is a big draw, but I could care less about and I can say the same for Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, and Stone Cold (I respect him as a legend, but I'm more of a Rock guy). Back on topic though, Punk is getting the biggest reactions *and is shirts are selling like crack*, so I believe he is a draw.


I'm not sure about that one. If you look at the link and go to page 6 you will see the online merchandise sales from 2011.
Q3 from July only has about 14.000 sold items that month. If you look at the other years they sell roughly about 20.000 items a month. 

http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf

You can correct me if I'm wrong....


----------



## SarcasmoBlaster (Nov 14, 2008)

I don't think anyone can say given the amount of statistical analysis it would take to isolate the effect of one guy being in the main event on PPV numbers, especially in the WWE where all the big names work every show.


----------



## AntMan (Jul 28, 2010)

Premeditated said:


> btw, for those of you denying the official buyrates, that Meltzer guy or report or website, whatever the fuck just confirmed that it did 185k while doing 135k domestically.
> 
> 
> :SadCmPunkMarks:


We get it. CM Punk fans are not allowed to be happy that he's selling a good amount of shirts and is being booked well after jobbing from WM 26 to Capital Punishment.

Do you have to come off like a jackass?


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

And what... Total buys are 276000 for July only but average is 185000... how the fuck do you pull that number. Who the fuck made that chart?


----------



## seancarleton77 (Jul 4, 2006)

Ratings are like an appetizer, Pay Per View buys are the main course + desert. Punk is fattening up a lot of people with all those meals he's selling.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

AntMan said:


> We get it. CM Punk fans are not allowed to be happy that he's selling a good amount of shirts and is being booked well after jobbing from WM 26 to Capital Punishment.
> 
> Do you have to come off like a jackass?


yeah, this is getting boring.

And I'm not trying to get banned. This was too tempting though. But I think my work here is done.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

version 1 said:


> I'm not sure about that one. If you look at the link and go to page 6 you will see the online merchandise sales from 2011.
> Q3 from July only has about 14.000 sold items that month. If you look at the other years they sell roughly about 20.000 items a month.
> 
> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> ...


You have a point, so there's a chance that he doesn't even sell shirts.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

oh boy this thread is gonna explode after the shirt thing


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

People apparently need to learn to look at charts closely... one says total buys 276 thousand and another shows it way above last years PPV for July which was 189 thousand... so yeah, huh... guess the 275 is the real number still.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> People apparently need to learn to look at charts closely... one says total buys 276 thousand and another shows it way above last years PPV for July which was 189 thousand... so yeah, huh... guess the 275 is the real number still.


cool man.
Can you explain to me why on the bottom of page 3 the little bar graph says 132k buys domestic and 53k international.

Really confused would help me out


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

And the online merch chart is showing all Q3 which for this year is just one month so far... and much of that does not capture Punk's explosion since his newest shirt didn't hit the WWE shop til the end of hte month... *gasp shock horror* CRITICAL THINKING RUN!


----------



## seancarleton77 (Jul 4, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> No, like i said, you guys need to realize that to the casual fan, Punk is just a skinny smartass that talk about big names like Rock, he's nothing to them.
> out of the "IWC" world people don't care about this average looking guy on a wrestling show.
> he need to change his attitude and then, maybe he would attract viewers. now? he's just a smartass that talk about things that only a small minority cares about, his fanbase, internet fans.


A. How is Punk average, he's the most intelligent guy in the back and he's covered in ink. 

B. Why does he need to change his attitude? He's the most unique thing going in not just WWE but the whole of Pro Wrestling/Sports Entertainment. 

C. How is bringing up the Money in the Bank buyrate by 100,000 buys not drawing when they sold the pay per view almost entirely on Punk vs. the system?

Oh and by the way Punk getting a louder pop than Cena and Del Rio can't possibly mean he's getting over with the "WWE Universe". Oh wait!

You want to know how I know Punk sold a shit ton of shirts? Look at the crowd on the last episode of Raw in Edmonton, there were more Punk shits than Cena shirts.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

I always lmao in threads like this. It's always the same ppl bashing pu k. No matter what evidence you give the. They have something to say about how it's irrelevant lol. Punk sells ton of merch, he out pops Cena here and there, and his segments always get more viewers. 

And since you wouldn't be able to just blame ratings or buyrates just on Punk then just reactions and merch sold would be the best indicator seeing that a ppv isn't Punk vs Punk or Raw isn't Punk for 2 hours. Punk has been feuding with Cena, HHH and now Nash and HHH so does that suggest that Cena and HHH aren't draws either. What new fan has Cena or HHH brought in exactly. If you can blame him for the ratings then I guess blame Cena and HHH is all I'm saying. MITB was hyped around Punk. Last year it was hyped around Cena, this year it was about Cena and Punk and it did maybe 100,000 more buys which should instantly answer the ops question along with his merch sales. And to the Rock mark saying MITB sold itself cuz the ladders and the MITB match lol why didn't it sell it self last year and don't give me that it was it's first year cuz if that was the case more ppl would have tuned in cuz the first of anything is usually the most memorable. 

Im surprised threads like this get this long cuz it always ends up with Rock marks and Punk marks and fans. I never saw Rock marks before he came back. I kinda feel they just like bashing Punk cuz with all the praise Punk gets from the likes of Austin, Heyman, HBK, JR, JbL and others that Punk is the only guy in the wwe that could go toe to toe with Rock in what he was known for. His Mouth. I'm not saying Punk is better cuz there's no way seeing as they both have different ways in talking but right now noone is as good as Punk on the mic.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

kokepepsi said:


> cool man.
> Can you explain to me why on the bottom of page 3 the little bar graph says 132k buys domestic and 53k international.
> 
> Really confused would help me out


It makes no sense since two charts show numbers clearly in the 200 thousand range and the two AVG charts don't... totaly buys in Q3 = 276000 but the AVG is 185000... makes no sense.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Kabraxal said:


> People apparently need to learn to look at charts closely... one says total buys 276 thousand and another shows it way above last years PPV for July which was 189 thousand... so yeah, huh... guess the 275 is the real number still.


Nope, the number in the line chart represents buys in July and corresponds to the table on page 3 which says total buys "including prior period". That number includes late wrestlemania buys. So the number is *185k*. 

Also, like someone pointed out above, it looks like merchandise is down as well. 14000 online merchandise sales for July, if you multiply it by 3 for the quarter estimate that would be about 42,000. 42,000 is down for the last two years by a lot.


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

If think some people are confused about the MITB buyrate. The total buyrate for Q3 which is only accounting for July's MITB PPV is 276000 while average period buys is 185000. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

yes smith


----------



## TheLadderMatch (Jul 25, 2011)

Yes Punk is a draw. /thread.


----------



## Olympus (Jan 3, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Riley drew bigger numbers than Punk on RAW...
> besides that, Vince and Cena did a lot of hype for MITB.


And what was that hype centered around? Why was there hype in the first place? Punk. Buyrates don't jump through the roof for Cena or else every PPV would be doing above average. Just leave.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

SoupMan Prime said:


> Im surprised threads like this get this long cuz it always ends up with Rock marks and Punk marks and fans. I never saw Rock marks before he came back. I kinda feel they just like bashing Punk cuz with all the praise Punk gets from the likes of Austin, Heyman, HBK, JR, JbL and others that Punk is the only guy in the wwe that could go toe to toe with Rock in what he was known for. His Mouth. I'm not saying Punk is better cuz there's no way seeing as they both have different ways in talking but right now noone is as good as Punk on the mic.


not even close. The reason why we bring The Rock in these conversations is because alot of CM Punk fans think he's better then The Rock. So if you want to comparing him and say he's better than the Rock, they better be ready to defend him when we're bringing up ratings.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Scorpion said:


> And what was that hype centered around? Why was there hype in the first place? Punk. Buyrates don't jump through the roof for Cena or else every PPV would be doing above average. Just leave.


MITB - 185k.


----------



## seancarleton77 (Jul 4, 2006)

I'm not sure if Punk is more clever than Dwyane's writers (he probably is) but I know Punk is a better wrestler than The Rock.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Rock316AE said:


> MITB - 185k.


265k, actually.

It's not the 90's anymore and the WWE is a draw within itself. The brand is recognizable so ratings, in that case, means nothing. It's the buyrates, merchandise, and live events that dictate the company, publicly.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

seancarleton77 said:


> I'm not sure if Punk is more clever than Dwyane's writers (he probably is) but I know Punk is a better wrestler than The Rock.


Y2J:


> On whether or not if feels like 12 years since he made his WWE debut on Raw: "It doesn't really seem like it was 12 years unless I think really hard about all the stuff that's taken place since then. But I can remember writing that promo that I did like it was yesterday in the apartment I was in on the floor, *just kind of writing down ideas and writing out the whole promo because back in that time there was no writers or creative as they call it.* It was basically you were just on your own. You might have a couple of ideas to throw around but most of it was just coming from your own brain and just saying it the way you wanted to say it. There was no rehearsals or anything like that. You would just go out there and do it. So that's the biggest change between the WWE in 2011 and the WWE of 1999."


Punk wrestle a lot of great matches in high school gyms, the greatest matches of all time and i'm sure that the 15 people that saw them will tell you that.


----------



## AntMan (Jul 28, 2010)

CM Punk is not better than The Rock from a popularity standpoint, but I enjoy Punk more. I like both guys though.

I don't understand this fan war that goes on here.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Ahh, high school gym jokes. Never gets old.

Punk is obviously a better wrestler than Rock. Hell, Austin, Trips, Cena, Taker, and HBK are better wrestlers than Rock.


----------



## Volantredx (May 27, 2011)

AntMan said:


> CM Punk is not better than The Rock from a popularity standpoint, but I enjoy Punk more. I like both guys though.
> 
> I don't understand this fan war that goes on here.


It's basically about a bunch of fans defending two grown men who pretended to say some mean things about each other.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

PWINSIDER:


> The data in the WWE's Key Performance Indicators is pretty confusing. If you go check Page 3 of the presentation, they list "Total buys (including previous period)" and the 276,000 buys are listed for Quarter Three.
> 
> However, if you then go to the lower part of the page, listed is the "Average Current Period buys (excluding WM)" and listed for only Quarter Three is just 185,000 buys which as of right now is probably is the actual reported buyrate for the show. If that number doesn't rise as they receive more reports, it means just a raise of 20,000 buys worldwide from the 2010 version of MITB.
> 
> Based on the strange way they have this listed, the other 91,000 buys would seem to belong to Wrestlemania 27, unfortunately, not Punk vs. Cena.


:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao
ROCK = 91,000
Punk is not a draw.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> PWINSIDER:
> 
> 
> :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao
> ...


dude, I think this is enough. They've had it rough today. Let them just marinate the ether.


----------



## Dudalizer (Jan 6, 2011)

No. We all know that the greats became draws over a period of a couple months. Punk isn't drawing ratings right now, and that is cuz he is poopy. He's a big poopy head vanilla midget and Cena iz teh olny reel champ. The fact that RAW ratings haven't increased in this short period of time shows me that Punk must be buried immediately, and Cena must retain the spotlight for another 7 or so years. 

[/sarcasm]


----------



## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Why are you guys arguing about who draws. Who cares, you guys are not WWE accountants. This goes for both sides. For Punk fans, ignore the buyrates and ratings and enjoy the product. For Punk Critics, why are you always trying to argue with Punk fans? You guys are just as bad as the hardcore Punk fans.


----------



## Mattyb2266 (Jun 28, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Y2J:
> 
> 
> Punk wrestle a lot of great matches in high school gyms, the greatest matches of all time and i'm sure that the 15 people that saw them will tell you that.


Not that I ever took you seriously, but now I'm kinda embarrassed for you. 

It's sad that the only real argument that you keep reverting back to is buyrates. 

Everything you've posted has said that buyrates went up from last years and other PPV events. All you're proving is that Punk is a draw. It might not be significant, but it's still going up. Thats what counts.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> dude, I think this is enough. They've had it rough today. Let them just marinate the ether.


Right, really got carried away a little but it has become funnier by the second.


----------



## dodger84578 (Aug 10, 2011)

there is a difference though, im not saying punk can draw anything close what the rock can, he cant, but i thing can draw a pretty good number, if given the ball to run with for a good while, but going back to what was said, you have to take in mind that to a casual fans perspective, one ppv is called wrestlemania the grandest stage of them all, an the other is just called money in the bank, so be little real here people


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

ok who here works for pwinsider.


----------



## vanboxmeer (Aug 27, 2007)

The 91000 not accounted for extra buys is the icing on the cake for Dwayne.


----------



## Khalid Hassan (Jan 3, 2006)

From my personal experience, CM Punk was the reason I went to the show in Edmonton this past Monday. A month or so back when I thought his contract was gonna expire, I had no intention of buying tickets thinking that he wouldn't be at the August 22nd show. So, for me, he is a draw.


----------



## WWWYKIBROSKI (Jul 26, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> ok who here works for pwinsider.


Me, bro. :flip


----------



## 11Shareef (May 9, 2007)

Honestly, I don't care about numbers. What effect does that have on me. My last name isn't McMahon. So ratings are pointless to me. It's a statistical trivia fact. But I will say this. CM Punk lost like what 9-10 PPV's in a row. He wasn't given the ball for a long time. Remember the Wrestlemania build up? He looked as if he was going to be built up as a top heel after taking over the Nexus. I think he's beaten Cena like 5 times this year. Somewhere down the line that got scrapped and Cena and Punk's feud just died. Punk and Orton put on a very forgettable feud. Like let's just be honest: It hasn't even been a full 6 months yet and I've almost completely forgot about that feud. That kind of stuff doesn't make someone the most credible person. Now add in the fact that it was like a month were people were wondering if punk was a heel or face. I watched Money In The Bank and thought it was the best main event I've seen in years and I saw that match and was like... wait no Nexus, an insane Chicago crowd reaction, no obvious heel tactics from Punk... is he a face now? People remember that kind of stuff. Punk hasn't been a face now for 2 whole months. He simply cut off ties to nexus, stopped heel fighting tactics and has begun fighting heels. So it's going to take a while for him to be seen as a face draw. Has he been the most entertaining man in the WWE lately? Yes. And that's what matters to me. Before MITB it had been weeks if not months that I watched a full episode of Raw and/or Smackdown with out losing interest. MITB changed that. CM Punk changed that so in my mind he is not only a draw but the draw.


----------



## Pie-Eating-Contest (May 13, 2011)

Scorpion said:


> Buyrates don't jump through the roof for Cena or else every PPV would be doing above average. Just leave.


Did you really just say that? Do you know what "average" means? Cena is in every PPV. It's not possible for every PPV to be "above average."

Punk marks are ridiculous. He is a rising star, whose appeal will go nowhere but up, but he's got nowhere near the selling power of Cena. He'll probably never reach those levels.


----------



## whitty982000 (Sep 15, 2006)

I don't get what you Punk haters "hate" about CM Punk, he is bringing a nice fresh change to the company! I don't get you annoying Cena marks, you will never get wrestling.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Agggh. So confusing.

But what about the chart? How come the chart has listed 265,000 buys for MITB, and yet they put the full buyrate of WrestleMania on the chart anyway? Surely that would mean that MITB got 265,000.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

I don't see 265,000 anywhere

The pwinsider guys pulled that out of their ass


----------



## The Absolute (Aug 26, 2008)

I couldn't care less about the numbers. If Punk's on the show, I'm watching. The end.


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

kokepepsi said:


> I don't see 265,000 anywhere
> 
> The pwinsider guys pulled that out of their ass


If you look at the chart on page 4, you can see that MITB 2011 is just a TAD below Night of Chambers 2009. NOC 2009 got a buyrate of 267,000 buys, so they just turned it down a bit and perdicted 265,000 buys. This confuses me, because if its ON that chart that MITB is JUST below NOC, shoudn't it have a buyrate around there?

In essence, what the chart is saying, is that ONLY MITB got 265,000 buys, or around there. It doesn't say anything about Mania. Am I right or wrong? 

http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel\4121687\WWE-keyperformance.pdf


----------



## Best Bout Machine (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm watching Raw every week because of CM Punk, so yes.


----------



## Kabraxal (Jun 14, 2004)

psx71 said:


> If you look at the chart on page 4, you can see that MITB 2011 is just a TAD below Night of Chambers 2009. NOC 2009 got a buyrate of 267,000 buys, so they just turned it down a bit and perdicted 265,000 buys. This confuses me, because if its ON that chart that MITB is JUST below NOC, shoudn't it have a buyrate around there?
> 
> In essence, what the chart is saying, is that ONLY MITB got 265,000 buys, or around there. It doesn't say anything about Mania. Am I right or wrong?
> 
> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel\4121687\WWE-keyperformance.pdf


And we'll be guessing til the official numbers are released in November for the entire fulfilled quarter I guess.. what a screwed up chart.


----------



## seancarleton77 (Jul 4, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> Punk wrestle a lot of great matches in high school gyms, the greatest matches of all time and i'm sure that the 15 people that saw them will tell you that.


How about that time when Punk & Cena had a match greater than anything The Rock has ever done in front of 17,000+ screaming Chicagoans and over 200,000 people watching at home on pay per view. Remember that?


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

seancarleton77 said:


> How about that time when Punk & Cena had a match greater than anything The Rock has ever done in front of 17,000+ screaming Chicagoans and over 200,000 people watching at home on pay per view. Remember that?


No.




MITB - 185k.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

psx71 said:


> If you look at the chart on page 4, you can see that MITB 2011 is just a TAD below Night of Chambers 2009. NOC 2009 got a buyrate of 267,000 buys, so they just turned it down a bit and perdicted 265,000 buys. This confuses me, because if its ON that chart that MITB is JUST below NOC, shoudn't it have a buyrate around there?
> 
> In essence, what the chart is saying, is that ONLY MITB got 265,000 buys, or around there. It doesn't say anything about Mania. Am I right or wrong?
> 
> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel\4121687\WWE-keyperformance.pdf


Are you talking about chart 3 or 4?


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> Are you talking about chart 3 or 4?


Page 4, blue line shows that MITB got approx 275K area PPV buys which is near the number of 265K as posted by many people here.


----------



## Bushmaster (Sep 28, 2010)

Rock316AE said:


> No.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was that Rock match 5 star match. If not then I think Cm Punk match would be better according to professional critics. But ur a Rock mark so it's prob one of ur fav matches of all time.

Seriously all Rock and Austin matches are and were great when you have 2 of the biggest stars of all time having an epic rivalry it's just great.


----------



## AntMan (Jul 28, 2010)

That WM 17 match was damn good as was the WM 19 match. The WM 15 and Backlash '99 Rock vs Austin matches weren't that good though. Why does everything have to turn into Rock vs Punk?

The Rock is one of the greatest of all time and Punk is my current favorite Why does it matter what Punk said about The Rock? Austin talked shit about Hogan when he was working in a bingo hall in Philadelphia. Rock, Austin, and Foley took shots at the old guys down in WCW during the monday night wars.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

LarryCoon said:


> Page 4, blue line shows that MITB got approx 275K area PPV buys which is near the number of 265K as posted by many people here.


Ok yeah MITB did do that number which was around 265K since chart 4 confirms those were the total buys. PWinsider has removed the link in which they compare the Average buys to the Total buys which are 2 different calculations. Pwinsider now only has this up concerning buys to MITB.



> The 2011 WWE Money in the Bank PPV garnered over 265,000 worldwide buys, according to WWE's latest performance indicators released to stockholders.
> 
> This buyrate would be up over 100,000 buys from the debut Money in the Bank PPV, which drew 165,00 buys worldwide.
> 
> ...


So yeah MITB did do that 265K which is confirmed by the WWE Chart. I don't know why Pwinsider tried to use the Average amount of buys in the post they removed. The Total amount of buys is what really matters and it is 265,000 which is over 100,000 more buys than last year.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

What I got from the chart was, MITB = 265k buys. Why is there even a discussion?


----------



## Ray (Mar 13, 2011)

Pree' sure MITB did get 265,000 buys. Not 185,000... LOL


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Erm, why are people saying last years was 189,000 buys?



> *Cagesideseats*According to Dave Meltzer on the September 6th Wrestling Observer radio show, wrestlinginc.com's report that the Money In The Bank PPV drew 189,000 buys worldwide was incorrect. That number erroneously included late buys from previous PPV shows. The actual number was 162,000 worldwide buys with only 93,000 coming from North America, which was down a whopping 44% from the Night Of The Champions PPV show that was held in July last year. Given that Money In The Bank was on paper one of the better new ideas WWE had for a match themed PPV show, the concept of coming up with match themed PPVs for all their B shows seems to be a failure at this point. It probably didn't help that like the Fatal Four Way PPV that also recently bombed there was much more interest and intrigue in Nexus who weren't even officially involved in a match on the PPV, than any of the participants in the Money In The Bank matches


]


----------



## Nas (Apr 5, 2011)

He's entertaining and that's all that matters to me.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

The lengths people will go to to take down Punk. Like they would have with Austin, Bret Hart, HBK..........The Rock. Whoops 8*D


----------



## Evohh (Jul 16, 2011)

I like him, but honestly I don't think hes a draw.


----------



## The Main Headliner (Mar 5, 2009)

greendayedgehead said:


> Rocky marks mad cause Punk tapped Beth Phoenix, Maria and Lita, and cause Rock is half as relevant as Punk, and also half as cool.



Lmfao. Dude the banging comment makes no sense. The rock is a Hollywood star, he can bang way hotter girls than that lmfao. Sure a dude who single handedly got Mania past 1 million buys, mainstream attention, and a true spike in ratings is irrelevent compared to a rising star who recently had to use the rocks Internet promo to diss cena. Come on my, punk is awesome but really?! Lmfao!!!!' gtfoh!


----------



## Nocturnal (Oct 27, 2008)

Amsterdam said:


> Thoughts? Is Punk a ratings draw - why or why not?


No, not yet anyway.


But as for your thread title, he has best selling merchandise and made some impact on ppvs buys. Since WWE revenue is not dependant on Raw ratings, he could be considered a draw.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

double posted


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

psx71 said:


> If you look at the chart on page 4, you can see that MITB 2011 is just a TAD below Night of Chambers 2009. NOC 2009 got a buyrate of 267,000 buys, so they just turned it down a bit and perdicted 265,000 buys. This confuses me, because if its ON that chart that MITB is JUST below NOC, shoudn't it have a buyrate around there?
> 
> In essence, what the chart is saying, is that ONLY MITB got 265,000 buys, or around there. It doesn't say anything about Mania. Am I right or wrong?
> 
> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel\4121687\WWE-keyperformance.pdf


Hmm that is interesting. Maybe you are right actually. I wonder what the 185k in that one chart above it comes from


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

This is Meltzer's post on the f4w board (can't link without subscription)

Originally Posted by Meltzer 
If you read the web site, the buys for Money in the Bank were 185,000 and domestic were 132,000.
The 276,000 number includes about 70,000 buys because they estimated low on Mania. Mania actually did considerably better than they thought as of a few weeks ago.
If you go to the web site and look at buys from the quarter not including late buys from the previous quarter, the numbers for both worldwide and domestic are right there.
Let me know when the corrections are made from the people reporting that didn't know how to read the tables after how many years.
The number was actually up 13%, less than the 20% Vince and the company expected.
Last year's show also didn't air in the U.K. on PPV but there was a strong domestic increase as well as an overseas decrease.
So the number was a little down from Vince's estimate a few weeks ago.
Good or bad depends on your point of view. It was good in that it's better than any B show is going to do the reset of the year, but slightly less than Elimination Chamber (worldwide less than Extreme Rules but that's not fair because Extreme Rules includes U.K.). For those who thought it was going to do this huge B show number like One Night Stand because of all the Internet talk, well, then not so good. Compared to company projections, then a little low.


That's how I read it but that one chart on page 4 is definitely confusing


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Fanboi101 said:


> This is Meltzer's post on the f4w board (can't link without subscription)
> 
> Originally Posted by Meltzer
> If you read the web site, the buys for Money in the Bank were 185,000 and domestic were 132,000.
> ...


I dont get it, late buys from Wrestlemania ? how does that contribute to the MITB buyrate, why does it say on the chart that it got that many, and how come the same guy reporting this was the same guy that reported that the MITB buyrate was double the amount compared to Capitol Punishment?


----------



## StylinProfilin (Nov 5, 2006)

mitb #s waaaaaay up from last year so YES and its FACT


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

So it's official, MITB - 185K.
I'm really sorry for you all, it's like waving in front of a dog with steak and then take it from him.
maybe the SS buyrate...


----------



## Edgehead 26 (Dec 4, 2009)

To be honest I don't really care if Punk does or doesn't draw among other people. The only thing that really matters to me is that I find him entertaining. 

Hating someone because they don't draw is pathetic. "Hey I don't like this guy cause other people I don't know and never will do don't watch the guy regardless of how entertaining the guy is."

If ~insert name of a Punk hater~'s favorite wrestler wasn't a huge draw, would they suddenly start hating on the guy? Exactly


----------



## version 1 (Apr 6, 2005)

Rock316AE said:


> You have a point, so there's a chance that he doesn't even sell shirts.


Same thing I was thinking


----------



## SPCDRI (Mar 15, 2010)

Its a trick question. Nobody is a draw. A storyline is a draw.

Rock/Miz/Cena showed it. Whose side was The Rock on? Would he get revenge on Cena? How long would the feud go? Now it is going to be built up for 9 months as a story.

CM Punk/Cena MITB, without the story, the hot crowd, the Screwjob callback, its a shadow of what it really was.
Now it is getting carried on, its interesting, the plot keeps thickening. 

One wrestler/One wrestler match, its not really much of a draw I don't think. You need a story to draw now.


----------



## vybzkartel8 (May 29, 2011)

Edgehead 26 said:


> To be honest I don't really care if Punk does or doesn't draw among other people. The only thing that really matters to me is that I find him entertaining.
> 
> Hating someone because they don't draw is pathetic. "Hey I don't like this guy cause other people I don't know and never will do don't watch the guy regardless of how entertaining the guy is."
> 
> If ~insert name of a Punk hater~'s favorite wrestler wasn't a huge draw, would they suddenly start hating on the guy? Exactly


My thing with punk is he buried the rock which he's entitle too by all means even though he doesnt know him personally, but here's the thing he claims the rock is out of touch,corny, and shouldnt receive any praise for the mania buyrate and he acts like his shit don't stink and he's some kind of mega draw above the likes of the rock.


----------



## tony2074 (Aug 6, 2011)

I'll watch RAW as long as he's somewhere near the top, cutting promos and having decent wrestling matches on the show. The minute they fuck him again and it becomes uninteresting and boring I'll stop again.

And it looks as though the football season is gonna have a huge impact on raw this season.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Every website i go to says it drew 265'000 buys, but if that isnt the case, Look at Q3 with the 2011 bar, with only one ppv (being MITB) the bar is already more than halfway near the other years buyrates which have 3 ppv buyrates with them.


----------



## illnades (Aug 15, 2011)

Ask Foley.
He loves him
and Foley IS God.


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Every website i go to says it drew 265'000 buys, but if that isnt the case, Look at Q3 with the 2011 bar, with only one ppv (being MITB) the bar is already more than halfway near the other years buyrates which have 3 ppv buyrates with them.


The average is halfway above, but the total buys (including the ones from Mania) aren't. Obviously though for the previous years, Q3 includes Summerslam so that has their averages increased quite a bit.


----------



## greaz taker! (Sep 12, 2010)

CM Punk is a bigger draw than Orton, and will overtake Cena in time. Just my humble opinion.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Dirtsheets starting to back off their overestimate of MITB buys...pwtorch says it is actually closer to 185k

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_52618.shtml


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> Dirtsheets starting to back off their overestimate of MITB buys...pwtorch says it is actually closer to 185k
> 
> http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_52618.shtml


interesting.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> Dirtsheets starting to back off their overestimate of MITB buys...pwtorch says it is actually closer to 185k
> 
> http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_52618.shtml


:lmao


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> Dirtsheets starting to back off their overestimate of MITB buys...pwtorch says it is actually closer to 185k
> 
> http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_52618.shtml


jerichoburn.gif


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> jerichoburn.gif


{reads username} hmm, didnt he lose like nearly 800'000 viewers on Raw this past week, and I dont see what youre happy about, this overall buyrate will end up being nearly 200'000 buys which is still a 20% increase from last year, which STILL means Punk draws which means you and the other moronic, attention seeking whores are wrong :flip


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> {reads username} hmm, didnt he lose like nearly 800'000 viewers on Raw this past week, and I dont see what youre happy about, this overall buyrate will end up being nearly 200'000 buys which is still a 20% increase from last year, which STILL means Punk draws which means you and the other moronic, attention seeking whores are wrong :flip


so Punk marks are really rejoicing over 185k buyrates now?:lmao

talk about the Reality Era of mediocrity. Am I in The Twilight Zone?

this is entertaining.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> {reads username} hmm, didnt he lose like nearly 800'000 viewers on Raw this past week, and I dont see what youre happy about, this overall buyrate will end up being nearly 200'000 buys which is still a 20% increase from last year, which STILL means Punk draws which means you and the other moronic, attention seeking whores are wrong :flip


I want to make wrestling cool

2.9 

185k

:flip


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Premeditated said:


> so Punk marks are really rejoicing over 185k buyrates now?:lmao
> 
> talk about the Reality Era of mediocrity. Am I in The Twilight Zone?
> 
> this is entertaining.


You admit you're a troll yet?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Premeditated said:


> so Punk marks are really rejoicing over 185k buyrates now?:lmao
> 
> talk about the Reality Era of mediocrity. Am I in The Twilight Zone?
> 
> this is entertaining.


please, stop blindly ignoring the *20% increase* from last year, but being your infintile self you will just ignore that, aswell as the viewership increasing during every segment he's involved him, aswell as his T-shirt sales going through the roof, so on and so forth.

But looking at yoyr sig, which quite honestly is one of the most immature and pathetic things i have ever read, your just gonna react blindly to all of these stone cold facts that Punk is a draw that i have stated above.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Brye said:


> You admit you're a troll yet?


Why? He presented facts.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Alberto del Rio said:


> I want to make wrestling cool
> 
> 2.9
> 
> ...


http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf

based on pages 2 and 6 it also looks like north american attendance is down slightly, online merchandise sales are on pace to be down significantly and average internet traffic is down too. :shocked:


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> Why? He presented facts.


Because of the post he made saying he's just trying to ignite the arguments. And ever since then he's stepped up his troll game quite a bit.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> 
> based on pages 2 and 6 it also looks like north american attendance is down slightly, online merchandise sales are on pace to be down significantly and average internet traffic is down too. :shocked:


WOW, So every category down? Apparently he doesn't even sell shirts.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Fanboi101 said:


> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> 
> based on pages 2 and 6 it also looks like north american attendance is down slightly, online merchandise sales are on pace to be down significantly and average internet traffic is down too. :shocked:


"July only" read


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> 
> based on pages 2 and 6 it also looks like north american attendance is down slightly, online merchandise sales are on pace to be down significantly and average internet traffic is down too. :shocked:


save_us.dwayne/y2j


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> 
> based on pages 2 and 6 it also looks like north american attendance is down slightly, online merchandise sales are on pace to be down significantly and average internet traffic is down too. :shocked:


said it loud, say it proud.

despite the biggest push in history, two clean main event wins over the no.1 face in company, despite being given minimum 45 minutes on weekly tv show.

CM PUNK IS STILL NOT A DRAW.

Sure he wants to make wrestling cool by turning straight men to gays on the internet.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> WOW, So every category down? Apparently he doesn't even sell shirts.


So you're trying to tell me that the entire state of WWE's revenue is based off of Punk? The Rock didn't even carry that much weight.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> please, stop blindly ignoring the *20% increase* from last year, but being your infintile self you will just ignore that, aswell as the viewership increasing during every segment he's involved him, aswell as his T-shirt sales going through the roof, so on and so forth.
> 
> But looking at yoyr sig, which quite honestly is one of the most immature and pathetic things i have ever read, your just gonna react blindly to all of these stone cold facts that Punk is a draw that i have stated above.


Capitol Punishment was also got a huge increase from the ppv last year. So Truth is a draw too right.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Brye said:


> So you're trying to tell me that the entire state of WWE's revenue is based off of Punk? The Rock didn't even carry that much weight.


No, but it's surprising.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

So from what I'm reading, people in here want the bland, stale product they have been getting until this summer as long as there ratings are up? So you care about the ratings more than the show? Good lord.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Product in some ways is leaps and bounds better. Just sucks its not reaching out the way it should.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> So from what I'm reading, people in here want the bland, stale product they have been getting until this summer as long as there ratings are up? So you care about the ratings more than the show? Good lord.


weren't you arguing about punk being a draw few pages back.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Alberto del Rio said:


> weren't you arguing about punk being a draw few pages back.


Punk is a draw. That's not my point.

My point is that people have been BEGGING for WWE to change their product and, although a slow one, they are doing that in great fashion and yet people still find the time to bitch and moan. Either you're a troll or a Attitude Era loyalist because this is ridiculous to be seeing the shit I've seen lately. Ever since Punk stated his opinion on Rock, the fanboys came out the woodworks.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> "July only" read


I was averaging it out to the quarter. The internet and attendance charts are already averaged. The merchandise chart you multiply by 3 and get 42, which is significantly lower than prior periods when they were in the 50s.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

what he has changed?? 

he cannot break kayfabes forever.. in the end no matter how over he gets.. he will never ever be pushed above cena.. just face the reality.

just because he does the shoots on the things that iwc bitches, doesn't make him the best thing ever.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Alberto del Rio said:


> what he has changed??
> 
> he cannot break kayfabes forever.. in the end no matter how over he gets.. he will never ever be pushed above cena.. just face the reality.
> 
> just because he does the shoots on the things that iwc bitches, doesn't make him the best thing ever.


You don't even know what you're talking about. He has barely broke kayfabe and has addressed issues that are publicly out there or the audience already knows about.

Nice try, strawman.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> You don't even know what you're talking about. He has barely broke kayfabe and has addressed issues that are publicly out there or the audience already knows about.
> 
> Nice try, strawman.



barely?? :no:

i know punk's dick is like the christmas candy.. you have to suck them during the peak season.


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

What Winning said. I am honest to god surprised you guys call yourselves wrestling fans.


Alberto del Rio said:


> barely?? :no:
> 
> i know punk's dick is like the christmas candy.. you have to suck them during the peak season.


And what the fuck are you on about?? :lmao


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Alberto del Rio said:


> barely?? :no:
> 
> i know punk's dick is like the christmas candy.. you have to suck them during the peak season.


Dick jokes? Eh, I've heard better.


Yes, barely. Paying attention does pay dividends if you try hard enough. Trust me.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I have a hard time believing that most of these people even want to enjoy WWE.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

that applies to you and the dickriders too.

he breaks kayfabes weeks after weeks.. they throw bones at idiots and they fall prey to it.. of course it just gave another chance to suck his dick.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Winning™;10215117 said:


> Dick jokes? Eh, I've heard better.
> 
> 
> Yes, barely. Paying attention does pay dividends if you try hard enough. Trust me.


I have no problem with you man, but there are fans of punk so delusional that they looked at what the size of his penis.
Look a few pages back.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> that applies to you and the dickriders too.
> 
> he breaks kayfabes weeks after weeks.. they throw bones at idiots and they fall prey to it.. of course it just gave another chance to suck his dick.


Kevin Nash broke kayfabe in the worst way last week. Cena's broken kayfabe. Punk broke it on 6/27 and then very occasionally since then. But he's also been incredibly entertaining since then.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Brye said:


> Kevin Nash broke kayfabe in the worst way last week. Cena's broken kayfabe. Punk broke it on 6/27 and then very occasionally since then. But he's also been incredibly entertaining since then.


entertaining.??

make jokes about people's wives?

look ma it's cool. 

he's shooting every damn week to allow his ever enlarging dick to be sucked by the ever expanding iwc's mouths


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> I have no problem with you man, but there are fans of punk so delusional that they looked at what the size of his penis.
> Look a few pages back.


Yes, there are a few Punk Marks that are delusional, but at the same time i dont know why your here, You seem to trash everyone in WWE and sing the praises of the Rock all the time, so why dont you just come back in November when the rock comes back so you dont have to shit on the wwe product over and over again.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> entertaining.??
> 
> make jokes about people's wives?
> 
> ...




The 6/27, 7/11 and 8/8 promos from Punk were all incredibly entertaining and while Cena and Vince were also a big part of two of them, Punk certainly held his own.

Why watch it if you have such a problem?


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> I have no problem with you man, but there are fans of punk so delusional that they looked at what the size of his penis.
> Look a few pages back.


And I love that throughout all of this you guys have maintained yourselves as the voice of sanity. That's just a knee slapper. You're the biggest zealots in here.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Yes, there are a few Punk Marks that are delusional, but at the same time i dont know why your here, You seem to trash everyone in WWE and sing the praises of the Rock all the time, so why dont you just come back in November when the rock comes back so you dont have to shit on the wwe product over and over again.


it makes NO fucking difference to people like you when you guys BITCH and MOAN when Punk loses matches..


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> it makes NO fucking difference to people like you when you guys BITCH and MOAN when Punk loses matches..


No one is bitching or moaning. 

You've been doing a majority of that and in a ridiculously childish fashion. Punk is in a high profile feud right now that even not being in the title picture is still a big part of Raw.

But fuck it, guess I'll just go enjoy the show instead of trying to deal with people like you. Much easier.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

greendayedgehead said:


> And I love that throughout all of this you guys have maintained yourselves as the voice of sanity. That's just a knee slapper. You're the biggest zealots in here.


That's what you sent me a couple of days ago:


> it sucks that you're right. my brother during RAW: so what's the big deal about CM Punk? He sucks.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

Brye said:


> No one is bitching or moaning.
> 
> You've been doing a majority of that and in a ridiculously childish fashion. Punk is in a high profile feud right now that even not being in the title picture is still a big part of Raw.


and what do you say about threads below

1. Orton buried Punk in their feud
2. Jerry Lawler buries Punk.
3. Punk should've never lost the title.

Punk marks are so hard to please.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> and what do you say about threads below
> 
> 1. Orton buried Punk in their feud
> 2. Jerry Lawler buries Punk.
> ...


Orton/Punk were pretty entertaining matches. No problem with Orton going over considering he's the bigger star, going onto a different show and Punk still got his push.

 at #2

While I would've liked him to keep it longer, I'm going to wait and see how this plays out before I say that.


----------



## diorama (Feb 4, 2009)

Alberto del Rio said:


> and what do you say about threads below
> 
> 1. Orton buried Punk in their feud
> 2. Jerry Lawler buries Punk.
> ...


To be honest the same thing go to other marks. Remember the outrage of some Christian fans?


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> it makes NO fucking difference to people like you when you guys BITCH and MOAN when Punk loses matches..


Dont put me in a fucking group, and i dont bitch and complain when he loses a match because i am not as shortsighted as you are "Punk will never draw" how the fuck do you know (even the quote itself is in fact already wrong)


----------



## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> That's what you sent me a couple of days ago:


and? If I recall correctly that was to a point you made about CM Punk not fully connecting with the casual audience, and I happened to agree with it. Doesn't change the fact that you are overzealous to the point it's a little sickening tbh. The conversation should have been over long ago.


----------



## Alberto del Rio (Jul 9, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Dont put me in a fucking group, and i dont bitch and complain when he loses a match because i am not as shortsighted as you are "Punk will never draw" how the fuck do you know (even the quote itself is in fact already wrong)


your posts are all over last 3 pages and you don't bitch about the fact he's not a draw. bravado..


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Alberto del Rio said:


> your posts are all over last 3 pages and you don't bitch about the fact he's not a draw. bravado..


I wasnt bitching, I was stating facts, facts that ignorant people like you are blatantly ignoring


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

It's bittersweet lurking in these threads. On one side you have the passion of wrestling fans bashing the guys they don't care for and defending the guys they like. On the other, trolls and fanboys in a neverending battle of who can outwit the other. It must suck to be so cool.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

^^ Indeed.

These Punk threads are just amazing. 

I can only imagine how people will react if something bad ever happened to him.


----------



## Tapac (Aug 26, 2011)

Punk's character is aimed to draw more adults but unfortunately adult fans of wwe are low since they are all into MMA now.

WWE has become a kid friendly product.Thats why cena draws more ratings.

as for the question the answer is NO.

Unless these kids,cena fans,grow up soon...punk is not gonna draw.


----------



## One Step Closer (Aug 26, 2011)

No and he will never be one. He fucking sucks.


----------



## GeorgeCostanza (Jul 2, 2011)

WWE draws itself
its not the 90's anymore
there's too much on TV and you dont have to watch anything live anymore because you can DVR it or find it online
only wrestling fans watch wrestling
no one draws anymore, its an antiquated term now


----------



## LarryCoon (Jul 9, 2011)

GeorgeCostanza said:


> WWE draws itself
> its not the 90's anymore
> there's too much on TV and you dont have to watch anything live anymore because you can DVR it or find it online
> only wrestling fans watch wrestling
> no one draws anymore, its an antiquated term now


Very true.

If Punk was fired and goes to ROH. People would still watch WWE.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

First of I believe WWEs word over any dirt sheet. The WWE chart clearly states MITB did around 260,000 buys. I will wait till WWE actually releases the full quarter or until they personally correct the chart.


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> First of I believe WWEs word over any dirt sheet. The WWE chart clearly states MITB did around 260,000 buys. I will wait till WWE actually releases the full quarter or until they personally correct the chart.


Their chart is correct though, the total buys includes some late buys from Mania that they hadn't included previously. That's why Vince said there was a 20% increase in total buys, rather than the 60% that would be the case had the received the 265k.


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

sigh










and


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> First of I believe WWEs word over any dirt sheet. The WWE chart clearly states MITB did around 260,000 buys. I will wait till WWE actually releases the full quarter or until they personally correct the chart.


Ummm when did WWE ever come out and say that MITB had 265k buys? The 265k buys came from dirt sheets originally after they had misinterpreted the charts. WWE's only official comment so far has been that they expect MITB to be 20% higher than last year.

I think the big story that is missing in all of this is that Wrestlemania may have actually had 90k more buys than originally thought. Instead of talking about how CM Punk can't draw we should talk about how much Rock draws.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> Ummm when did WWE ever come out and say that MITB had 265k buys? The 265k buys came from dirt sheets originally after they had misinterpreted the charts. WWE's only official comment so far has been that they expect MITB to be 20% higher than last year.
> 
> I think the big story that is missing in all of this is that Wrestlemania may have actually had 90k more buys than originally thought. Instead of talking about how CM Punk can't draw we should talk about how much Rock draws.


So 1,059,000 + 90k? this is HUGE number.


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Fanboi101 said:


> Ummm when did WWE ever come out and say that MITB had 265k buys? The 265k buys came from dirt sheets originally after they had misinterpreted the charts. WWE's only official comment so far has been that they expect MITB to be 20% higher than last year.
> 
> I think the big story that is missing in all of this is that Wrestlemania may have actually had 90k more buys than originally thought. Instead of talking about how CM Punk can't draw we should talk about how much Rock draws.


Certainly you would agree it's more amusing to talk about something that is debatable rather than something that has been proven. It's no secret The Rock is a draw. He's been in multiple blockbuster movies and his name extends outisde of the WWE Universe, not to mention his years on the top as a wrestler in the Attitude Era. CM Punk is a _current_ star of WWE whose best days are ahead of him. Comparing Rock's WWE drawing power to Punk's is like comparing any bonafide A-List celebrity's Box Office drawing power to Dwayne Johnson's.


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

doyousee? said:


> Certainly you would agree it's more amusing to talk about something that is debatable rather than something that has been proven. It's no secret The Rock is a draw. *He's been in multiple blockbuster movies *and his name extends outisde of the WWE Universe, not to mention his years on the top as a wrestler in the Attitude Era. CM Punk is a _current_ star of WWE whose best days are ahead of him. Comparing Rock's WWE drawing power to Punk's is like comparing any *bonafide A-List celebrity's Box Office drawing power to Dwayne Johnson's*.


huh??


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> Instead of talking about how CM Punk can't draw we should talk about how much Rock draws.


Let me get this straight man:
1,059,000 + 90k?


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Rock316AE said:


> Let me get this straight man:
> 1,059,000 + 90k?


I'm not sure but if you read some articles that were posted a few pages back, as well as Meltzer's post, then it seems that there were some late wrestlemania buys that wouldn't have been included in the reported number. WWE's charts suggest the same thing. My understanding is that the difference between the 276k that ppl were floating around earlier for MITB and 185k, the actual number, is late wrestlemania buys. If that's the case, then wrestlemania actually had about 1,140,000 buys.


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Fanboi101 said:


> huh??


Blockbuster: a high-budget production aimed at mass markets.

A-List Celebrity: Major movie stars, and/or the most bankable in the Hollywood film industry.
Feel free to insert any one of these names where i said "bonafide A-List celebrity:

Will Smith
Johnny Depp
Brad Pitt
Tom Hanks
George Clooney
Will Ferrell
Leonardo DiCaprio
Robert Downey Jr.
Tom Cruise
Jim Carrey
Etc...


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

doyousee? said:


> Blockbuster: a high-budget production aimed at mass markets.
> 
> A-List Celebrity: Major movie stars, and/or the most bankable in the Hollywood film industry.
> Feel free to insert any one of these names where i said "bonafide A-List celebrity:
> ...


I think Rock is comparable to some of those guys. Definitely not all but some. Guys like George Clooney and Jim Carrey haven't had a hit in years. 

I would definitely say that Rock is an A list celebrity. Any guy that plays the lead role consistently in mainstream movies has to be considered an A list celeb. I'm not saying he has as much star power as everyone on that list but he is still on the A list.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

You're comparing the Rock to Denzel, Brad Pitt, DeCaprio, and Hanks? No.


----------



## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Fanboi101 said:


> I think Rock is comparable to some of those guys. Definitely not all but some. Guys like George Clooney and Jim Carrey haven't had a hit in years.
> 
> I would definitely say that Rock is an A list celebrity. Any guy that plays the lead role consistently in mainstream movies has to be considered an A list celeb. I'm not saying he has as much star power as everyone on that list but he is still on the A list.


Fair enough. If Dwayne Johnson is an A-List celebrity, CM Punk is a true WWE main-eventer. All I'm saying is that the comparison of The Rock and Punk in terms of drawing power is analogical to one of the celebrities who is clearly more bankable and established in Hollywood than Dwayne Johnson such as Johnny Depp, Will Smith, or Brad Pitt.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

jm99 said:


> Their chart is correct though, the total buys includes some late buys from Mania that they hadn't included previously. That's why Vince said there was a 20% increase in total buys, rather than the 60% that would be the case had the received the 265k.


Then why did they include this? Can somebody explain what this chart means?


----------



## Fanboi101 (Jul 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> You're comparing the Rock to Denzel, Brad Pitt, DeCaprio, and Hanks? No.


He's not as big of a star as them but I'd still say he is an A-list celebrity. I think of B-list celebrities as guys whose movies go straight to video or reality tv stars.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> Then why did they include this? Can somebody explain what this chart means?





> Originally Posted by Meltzer
> If you read the web site, the buys for Money in the Bank were 185,000 and domestic were 132,000.
> *The 276,000 number includes about 70,000 buys because they estimated low on Mania.* *Mania actually did considerably better than they thought as of a few weeks ago.*
> If you go to the web site and look at buys from the quarter not including late buys from the previous quarter, the numbers for both worldwide and domestic are right there.
> ...


^


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> Then why did they include this? Can somebody explain what this chart means?


That chart is listed by month, not by event. So the late Mania buys were included in the month of July. Thats why the average per event is lower than the total buys. Because the average only incuded the buys of MITB, and the total included some prior buys from Mania (and I'd assume a few thousand from other events, which is why only 70k of the numbers were attributed to Mania, despite the 90k difference.)


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> You're comparing the Rock to Denzel, Brad Pitt, DeCaprio, and Hanks? No.


obviously nobody is comparing him with them from the acting ability. But he's not that far from George Clooney and Denzel in terms of drawing people to watch.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

So far, ever since June 27th, I've only seen proof that Punk is a draw. I have seen zero proof that he is not. So really, the following is so very appropriate.










As far as the Rock argument goes, who in the right fucking mind believes Punk is a bigger draw than the Rock. Shame on you if you think so. Rock is _the_ biggest draw in wrestling right now, so debating that is goofy as fuck. But putting Rock aside, you can't deny Punk is a draw in the current WWE.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Wrestlinfan35 said:


> So far, ever since June 27th, I've only seen proof that Punk is a draw. I have seen zero proof that he is not. So really, the following is so very appropriate.


why? because he sells t shirts and not ppvs. So does Kofi.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

jm99 said:


> That chart is listed by month, not by event. So the late Mania buys were included in the month of July. Thats why the average per event is lower than the total buys. Because the average only incuded the buys of MITB, and the total included some prior buys from Mania (and I'd assume a few thousand from other events, which is why only 70k of the numbers were attributed to Mania, despite the 90k difference.)


I see, so we will have the full number by the time they release the full quarter.


----------



## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Premeditated said:


> why? because he sells t shirts and not ppvs. So does Kofi.


Nah, because he sells t-shirts, PPVs, and his segments/matches have brought in 500k-1mil viewers many times on RAW.  I'm not gonna bother with your poor excuse-filled response though. These are facts.


----------



## jm99 (Apr 4, 2011)

Chicago Warrior said:


> I see, so we will have the full number by the time they release the full quarter.


I think so, the PWInsider, reported that they expect the full number, once all international buys have been accounted for to be close to 200,000.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Premeditated said:


> why? because he sells t shirts and not ppvs. So does Kofi.


And draws viewers, and sells tickets, and is recognized by the mainstream media, and gets the biggest pops of the night, and sells fuck load more shirts then Kofi... You are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrongly wrong.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Fanboi101 said:


> http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/interactive/LookAndFeel/4121687/WWE-keyperformance.pdf
> 
> based on pages 2 and 6 it also looks like north american attendance is down slightly, online merchandise sales are on pace to be down significantly and average internet traffic is down too. :shocked:


^
Everything is down, Punk is not a draw. stop with the BS please.


----------



## Chicago Warrior (Oct 18, 2010)

jm99 said:


> I think so, the PWInsider, reported that they expect the full number, once all international buys have been accounted for to be close to 200,000.


Plus some late domestic buys.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> ^
> Everything is down, Punk is not a draw. stop with the BS please.


You know, The rock's birthday party episode lost viewers in the 2nd hour... just sayin


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Were the majority of people tuning out because of The Rock? I think I remember it that Rock was pretty much the only thing getting ratings that night.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> You know, The rock's birthday party episode lost viewers in the 2nd hour... just sayin


Lakers playoff game...
Seriously man, all jokes aside, business is down and MITB was a lot lower than what they expected.
Punk is not a draw.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

There's no point in arguing with these CM Punk marks. They're gonna believe what they want to believe. They bring selective facts while ignoring others. They are like battered women who thinks they can change their aggressor. No matter the facts her friends tell them about that person and how much hurt they do, they still want to hold on and be with them because they see that one "good" thing about them.

Just let it go Punk marks. This isn't to down Philip in no way. Not everyone was born to have a mass appeal like The Rock. It doesn't mean that CM Punk sucks. It just means he can't draw.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> obviously nobody is comparing him with them from the acting ability. But he's not that far from George Clooney and Denzel in terms of drawing people to watch.


He wishes he could draw Denzel money or power.


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> He wishes he could draw Denzel money or power.


Just like how Punk wish he can be as relevant as The Rock.

The Rock is one of the highest paid actors in Hollywood. How many flop movies has he had? He's not an A-List actor, but he's an A-List celebrity.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

> There's no point in arguing with these CM Punk haters. They're gonna believe what they want to believe. They bring selective facts while ignoring others. They are like battered women who thinks they can change their aggressor. No matter the facts her friends tell them about that person and how much hurt they do, they still want to hold on and be with them because they see that one "good" thing about them.
> 
> Just let it go Punk haters. This isn't to down Philip in no way. Not everyone was born to have a mass appeal like The Rock. It doesn't mean that CM Punk sucks. It just means he does draw, just not as much as an A list movie star.


Ahh more accurate


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> He wishes he could draw Denzel money or power.


Funny thing is, US Worldwide Gross, Rock is actually pretty damn close.

Denzel - $1,836,536,661 

Dwayne - $1,402,068,639


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Love how the Punk fans admit that Rock is a draw and legend of the business but the Rock fanboys make it completely irrelevant to Punk's fast rise in the business.


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

Punk will and needs to be a future top draw. I hope it happens. WWE needs it.


----------



## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Premeditated said:


> There's no point in arguing with these CM Punk marks. They're gonna believe what they want to believe. They bring selective facts while ignoring others. They are like battered women who thinks they can change their aggressor. No matter the facts her friends tell them about that person and how much hurt they do, they still want to hold on and be with them because they see that one "good" thing about them.
> 
> Just let it go Punk marks. This isn't to down Philip in no way. Not everyone was born to have a mass appeal like The Rock. It doesn't mean that CM Punk sucks. It just means he can't draw.


True, but I try to run a serious discussion with them and they still live in denial.
(I have no problem with his realistic fans BTW)


----------



## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Funny thing is, US Worldwide Gross, Rock is actually pretty damn close.
> 
> Denzel - $1,836,536,661
> 
> Dwayne - $1,402,068,639


And this is while having made less movies and his career really just took off in 2002.

:lmao


:sadwinning::sad:


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> True, but I try to run a serious discussion with them and they still live in denial.


But, the funny thing is, we are not in denial of anything, hell I admit the rock is probarly the biggest draw in wrestling today, but to say that Punk doesent draw is bullshit and moronic.


----------



## Gokulio (Jan 21, 2010)

Premeditated said:


> There's no point in arguing with these CM Punk marks. They're gonna believe what they want to believe. They bring selective facts while ignoring others. They are like battered women who thinks they can change their aggressor. No matter the facts her friends tell them about that person and how much hurt they do, they still want to hold on and be with them because they see that one "good" thing about them.
> 
> Just let it go Punk marks. This isn't to down Philip in no way. Not everyone was born to have a mass appeal like The Rock. It doesn't mean that CM Punk sucks. It just means he can't draw.


You are such a troll. I saw your posts in the Raw viewership thread claiming CM Punk isn't a draw and immediately after the quarterly ratings were released you shut your mouth about that and started apologising for underestimating Punk's drawing ability. There are so many facts that exemplify his drawing power right now (all his segments since the shoot interview increasing the ratings, his t-shirts selling out more than once on WWEShop, the Money in the Bank buyrate etc) and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge those facts shows that you are one of those 'battered women' you were talking about in the first paragraph.

Also, could you please remove from your sig the claim that Punk is your favourite because that is clearly an outright lie...


----------



## kokepepsi (Mar 22, 2011)

can't wait for SummerSlam buys to come out


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## Wrestlinfan35 (Jan 13, 2008)

Winning™ said:


> Love how the Punk fans admit that Rock is a draw and legend of the business but the Rock fanboys make it completely irrelevant to Punk's fast rise in the business.


That's what I'm saying. No fucking shit Punk isn't the draw Rock is, he's not going to be for a long while now. Nobody is. But denying Punk's current popularity, overness and drawing ability, and even to go as far as to mock his lifestyle to try and prove points lmao) is kind of pathetic/hilarious. Just try and enjoy the fucking product instead of complaining about it.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Not sad. Just sad that your signature tries to be funny.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

WrestlingforEverII said:


> Funny thing is, US Worldwide Gross, Rock is actually pretty damn close.
> 
> Denzel - $1,836,536,661
> 
> Dwayne - $1,402,068,639


WOW, The Rock is one of a kind. he can do everything and be mega successful, i can see why "people" can be jealous over his amazing success.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Gokulio said:


> You are such a troll. I saw your posts in the Raw viewership thread claiming CM Punk isn't a draw and immediately after the quarterly ratings were released you shut your mouth about that and started apologising for underestimating Punk's drawing ability. There are so many facts that exemplify his drawing power right now* (all his segments since the shoot interview increasing the ratings, his t-shirts selling out more than once on WWEShop, the Money in the Bank buyrate etc*) and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge those facts shows that you are one of those 'battered women' you were talking about in the first paragraph.
> 
> Also, could you please remove from your sig the claim that Punk is your favourite because that is clearly an outright lie...


I'm gonna tell you like I keep telling the rest of your fellow marks, his segments are getting the highest of the night because the time slots he's in almost always get the highest ratings on the show; opening, top of the hour and main-event. Let see if he can actually bring back viewerships at any other time like the Miz does. His match with Kofi a couple weeks ago gained 2ook viewers, his Subway segment gained 225K viewers and his segment with Truth gained 125k viewers. These are all time slots outside of the big 3 time slots. Has CM Punk ever accomplished that ever? I wait for your answer.
As for his T-shirts, like I said, they're selling, but you guys are only using this as a draw, should also acknowledge that Kofi and a draw too for his merchandises selling.
I don't know what figure you keep refering to for the MITB buyrate, but it didn't even reach 200k buys, think about that. Is that a draw to you?


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## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Rock316AE said:


> WOW, The Rock is one of a kind. he can do everything and be mega successful, i can see why "people" can be jealous over his amazing success.


Damn, you call us dickriders? you got the rock plasterd on your usermane, avatar, signature, and saying shit like this!

GET THE FUCK OUT


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> Not sad. Just sad that your signature tries to be funny.


says the guy who has a gif of Punk trying hard as possible to look cool in front of grown men with those forced sadistic facial expression. He's trying so hard to have Heath Ledger Joker demeanor, it's not even funny. "Voice of the voiceless"? Corny.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Hows he going for ledger joker? He's looked like this since 2003


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Damn, you call us dickriders? you got the rock plasterd on your usermane, avatar, signature, and saying shit like this!
> 
> GET THE FUCK OUT


Nah, where did i call you "dickrider"? i said that you living in denial, which is almost a fact. and you delusional Punk fans even looking for the size of his penis.
sad, grow up man.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> Damn, you call us dickriders? you got the rock plasterd on your usermane, avatar, signature, and saying shit like this!
> 
> GET THE FUCK OUT


Just the same thing you've been doing with Punk. How are you gonna criticize him?


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## Gokulio (Jan 21, 2010)

Premeditated said:


> I'm gonna tell you like I keep telling the rest of your fellow marks, his segments are getting the highest of the night because the time slots he's in almost always get the highest ratings on the show; opening, top of the hour and main-event. Let see if he can actually bring back viewerships at any other time like the Miz does. His match with Kofi a couple weeks ago gained 2ook viewers, his Subway segment gained 225K viewers and his segment with Truth gained 125k viewers. These are all time slots outside of the big 3 time slots. Has CM Punk ever accomplished that ever? I wait for your answer.
> As for his T-shirts, like I said, they're selling, but you guys are only using this as a draw, should also acknowledge that Kofi and a draw too for his merchandises selling.
> I don't know what figure you keep refering to for the MITB buyrate, but it didn't even reach 200k buys, think about that. Is that a draw to you?


Firstly, CM Punk hasn't been in any of those 'unpopular' slots since his shoot promo so he hasn't even had a chance to show you that he can gain viewers in those slots, but I'm sure he would. You say that the reason those Punk segments gain so many viewers is because it's the main slots when people tune in. Well that is partly true, but more people would tune in to see Punk in an opening and ending segment than they would to see someone like Del Rio. No, I don't have proof of that, but Punk's segments have gained a lot of viewers lately. And I mean a LOT.

Secondly, his merchandise is flying off the shelves, unlike Kingston's. This is because Punk has many fans who are passionate about supporting him and watching him.

Thirdly, I realise the MITB scenario now, but the fact is the UK (including myself) didn't have to pay for the ppv so buys weren't as high as they could have been.

Now I don't want to start a long argument about this because the fact is I'm going to bed now (yes, it's bedtime in the UK). So I don't care whether you agree with what I've said or not, I just want you to leave this conversation here. Good day!


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Gokulio said:


> Firstly, CM Punk hasn't been in any of those 'unpopular' slots since his shoot promo *so he hasn't even had a chance to show you that he can gain viewers in those slots, but I'm sure he would. You say that the reason those Punk segments gain so many viewers is because it's the main slots when people tune in. Well that is partly true, but more people would tune in to see Punk in an opening and ending segment than they would to see someone like Del Rio. No, I don't have proof of that, but Punk's segments have gained a lot of viewers lately. And I mean a LOT.*
> 
> Secondly, his merchandise is flying off the shelves, unlike Kingston's. This is because Punk has many fans who are passionate about supporting him and watching him.
> 
> ...


Even in the main time slot:


> CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio at 10pm gained just 15,000 viewers, which is the lowest number for the 10pm timeslot in a while.


This is a draw? i don't think so.


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## NoLeafClover (Oct 23, 2009)

This thread... :faint:


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Gokulio said:


> Firstly, CM Punk hasn't been in any of those 'unpopular' slots since his shoot promo so he hasn't even had a chance to show you that he can gain viewers in those slots, but I'm sure he would. You say that the reason those Punk segments gain so many viewers is because it's the main slots when people tune in. Well that is partly true, but more people would tune in to see Punk in an opening and ending segment than they would to see someone like Del Rio. No, I don't have proof of that, but Punk's segments have gained a lot of viewers lately. And I mean a LOT.
> 
> Secondly, his merchandise is flying off the shelves, unlike Kingston's. This is because Punk has many fans who are passionate about supporting him and watching him.
> 
> ...


Punk vs Del Rio match only gained 15k at the top of the hour. One of the lowest in years.

btw,

Cena vs A-Ri cage match = 3.8 rating
CM Punk highest segment up to date is 3.7 (The promo with Nash last week, which was mostly because of Nash)


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## CenationHLR (Mar 31, 2011)

This thread makes me embarrassed to be part of the IWC. How can people be this stupid? Seriously.....


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> says the guy who has a gif of Punk trying hard as possible to look cool in front of grown men with those forced sadistic facial expression. He's trying so hard to have Heath Ledger Joker demeanor, it's not even funny. "Voice of the voiceless"? Corny.


Oh, right because the Rock was never corny himself. Besides, his expression is more of the reaction of your ignorance spread in posts every single day.

You're so fake. You said you were a Punk fan only to troll people and then started spewing your hate. It's fine, though. I'm sure you'll turn around by the end of next year while I save these posts you made, saying opposite.

It's different to give constructive criticisms about Punk, fine. It's called an opinion. But when you spew the shit that you do, along with your signature, you're just merely a troll. Everybody keeps owning you but you keep going.


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## K-Fed (May 3, 2006)

Premeditated said:


> says the guy who has a gif of Punk trying hard as possible to look cool in front of grown men with those forced sadistic facial expression. *He's trying so hard to have Heath Ledger Joker demeanor*, it's not even funny. "Voice of the voiceless"? Corny.


See Sting...


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> Oh, right because the Rock was never corny himself. Besides, his expression is more of the reaction of your ignorance spread in posts every single day.
> 
> You're so fake. You said you were a Punk fan only to troll people and then started spewing your hate. It's fine, though. I'm sure you'll turn around by the end of next year while I save these posts you made, saying opposite.
> 
> It's different to give constructive criticisms about Punk, fine. It's called an opinion. But when you spew the shit that you do, along with your signature, you're just merely a troll. Everybody keeps owning you but you keep going.




Is my sig really hurting your feeling? When I was making it, I wasn't even thinking about any of you guys. You can go ahead and save these post, remember it, wrap them up in a box and throw it in a secret vote. You still won't be able to post them back because by this time next year Punk will be a footnote, his popularity will die down. This gimmick of his can't last long, it's gonna dry out and it doesn't bring enough money to the company. Vince tried and tried to cater to the IWC by pushing Punk to the moon, but still no good results because alot of people here were still streaming, and not enough buyrates.

lol @ me being fake. This is just a forum, don't be so serious.


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## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

> Punk trying hard as possible to look cool in front of grown men with those forced sadistic facial expression


Facial expressions are part of his job. :lmao

Hysterical how much of a troll Premeditated became overnight.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

Brye said:


> Facial expressions are part of his job. :lmao
> 
> Hysterical how much of a troll Premeditated became overnight.


actually, it's more like one of those faces you give to know that someone's watching you. 'I bet if I show that Heath Ledger shit, the IWC is gonna think, I such a genius" type look.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

To be fair Punk makes great facial expressions. those are the things that sell a match to me. Foley, Jake and Eddie in particular were famous for it.

Genuine storytelling.


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## Rock316AE (Aug 12, 2011)

Winning™ said:


> Oh, right because the Rock was never corny himself. Besides, his expression is more of the reaction of your ignorance spread in posts every single day.
> 
> You're so fake. You said you were a Punk fan only to troll people and then started spewing your hate. It's fine, though. I'm sure you'll turn around by the end of next year while I save these posts you made, saying opposite.
> 
> It's different to give constructive criticisms about Punk, fine. It's called an opinion. But when you spew the shit that you do, along with your signature, you're just merely a troll. Everybody keeps owning you but you keep going.


I think that i need to save your posts and show you them, but not at the end of the year, when the SS buyrate will come.


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## samizayn (Apr 25, 2011)

CenationHLR said:


> This thread makes me embarrassed to be part of the IWC. How can people be this stupid? Seriously.....


You know you've sunk a new low when this guy calls you sad. Honest to god guys.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

redeadening said:


> To be fair Punk makes great facial expressions. those are the things that sell a match to me. Foley, Jake and Eddie in particular were famous for it.
> 
> Genuine storytelling.


he doesn't do it to sell a match, he does it to look cool because he knows you guys are gonna set a bonfire and have a fest over it and carry on about how much he understands "us".


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Premeditated said:


> Is my sig really hurting your feeling? When I was making it, I wasn't even thinking about any of you guys. You can go ahead and save these post, remember it, wrap them up in a box and throw it in a secret vote. You still won't be able to post them back because by this time next year Punk will be a footnote, his popularity will die down. This gimmick of his can't last long, it's gonna dry out and it doesn't bring enough money to the company. Vince tried and tried to cater to the IWC by pushing Punk to the moon, but still no good results because alot of people here were still streaming, and not enough buyrates.
> 
> lol @ me being fake. This is just a forum, don't be so serious.


No, my feelings aren't hurt. Trolls can't do that to me.



greendayedgehead said:


> You know you've sunk a new low when this guy calls you sad. Honest to god guys.


Pretty much.


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## reDREDD (Oct 12, 2008)

Premeditated said:


> he doesn't do it to sell a match, he does it to look cool because he knows you guys are gonna set a bonfire and have a fest over it and carry on about how much he understands "us".


Its to sell a match. Psychology. Storytelling. Emotion.

Id rather watch bang his hands onto the mat in frustration in WM 6 over 90 % of the matches in the last 20 years to be honest.

Punk is one of the last few characters. a lost art


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## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

"We love to drink, smoke, party and have sex", then why on a friday evening are you constantly posting on a wrestling forum?


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## Aficionado (Jul 16, 2008)

Premeditated said:


> says the guy who has a gif of Punk trying hard as possible to look cool in front of grown men with those forced sadistic facial expression. He's trying so hard to have *Heath Ledger Joker *demeanor, it's not even funny. "Voice of the voiceless"? Corny.


Some posters just like to watch the forum burn...


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

jblvdx said:


> "We love to drink, smoke, party and have sex", then why on a friday evening are you constantly posting on a wrestling forum?


.Don't know the time inthe U.K. It's 3.43P.M where I live.

Club don't start popping of until 11.

. Just came from the movies 2 hours ago. In the meantime, I'm gonna go get some 4loko, listen to The Weeknd's House of Balloon, while continuing to post here just because I can.


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## all in all... (Nov 21, 2010)

yeah if by 'draw' you mean people are buying tickets/watching tv because of him, yes, he is amongst the draws of the company. as opposed to say, sheamus, who while over, i doubt very many people are buying tickets specifically to see him (atm)


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## dcrisp09 (Feb 22, 2010)

Wow I usually lurk around these forums and barely post but damn Premeditated is the biggest douche I've witnessed on these forums. You say Punk isn't a draw, well he obviously is drawing you in. I mean hell you spend so much time talking about the man and even have a picture of him as your sig. I've seen you in multiple threads talking shit about Punk and his fans. Didn't you once have Punk mentioned as one of your current favs? What now that he is a face now you don't like him anymore? I don't understand why everyone cares what others think its a discussion board EVERYONE has different opinions. Plus Punk is a draw look at the poll in this thread. I believe that more than two douches who have nothing better to do then sit on a forum and spend all their time talking about a guy they supposedly don't care for.


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## Premeditated (Jan 15, 2011)

dcrisp09 said:


> Wow I usually lurk around these forums and barely post but damn Premeditated is the biggest douche I've witnessed on these forums. You say Punk isn't a draw, well he obviously is drawing you in. I mean hell you spend so much time talking about the man and even have a picture of him as your sig. I've seen you in multiple threads talking shit about Punk and his fans. Didn't you once have Punk mentioned as one of your current favs? What now that he is a face now you don't like him anymore? I don't understand why everyone cares what others think its a discussion board EVERYONE has different opinions. Plus Punk is a draw look at the poll in this thread. I believe that more than two douches who have nothing better to do then sit on a forum and spend all their time talking about a guy they supposedly don't care for.


please lay of on the flaming and the unnecessary use of despicable words. Failure to do so, can lead to people like me, not taking anything you say as gospel for the rest of the time you post here. I don't know if you notice, but Kofi Kingston is my favorite superstar, so you can dismiss the only marking for heels argument. I'm sure you weren't aware so its okay.


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## dcrisp09 (Feb 22, 2010)

I don't care if you take me seriously. I just want to know what your fascination with Punk is.


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## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

This thread has gone to shit. 60+ pages? fpalm


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## dcrisp09 (Feb 22, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> This thread has gone to shit. 60+ pages? fpalm


WWWYKI!


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## MrTrolololol (Jul 29, 2011)

L0L. 

Punk is a draw, whether you Punk haters like it or not.
He's made it interesting the last 2 months.
It's not all on Punk. The WWE need to make the rest of their product GOOD you can't rely on one man to kick start big ratings if the rest of the product is utter shit. They will tune out during the boring segments, then tune back in during the entertaining segments.


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## Smith_Jensen (Jul 9, 2011)

Nobody is a draw in wrestling except for this wrestler



















Inanimate Steel Pipe is the best wrestler in the world today. He is a better draw than CM Punk, John Cena, The Miz, The Rock, and Alberto Del Rio combined.


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