# AEW dominates the 2020 WON Awards



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

AEW pulled off a clean sweep of the Category A awards in the 2020 Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards and won many others.

These awards are not decided by Dave Meltzer, but by subscribers to the WON. A very interesting contrast to some of the views on this forum, which I'm sure we'll be hearing in response to these. 

*Category A Awards

Lou Thesz/Ric Flair Award (Wrestler of the Year)*

Jon Moxley
Kenny Omega
Tetsuya Naito
Kota Ibushi
Drew McIntyre
Bayley
Go Shiozaki
Roman Reigns
Mayu Iwatani
Chris Jericho
*Most Outstanding Wrestler*

Kenny Omega
Kota Ibushi
Shingo Takagi
Tomohiro Ishii
Will Ospreay
Minoru Suzuki
Kazuchika Okada
Hiromu Takahashi
Go Shiozaki
Rey Fénix
*Tag Team of the Year*

Young Bucks
Kenny Omega & Adam Page
FTR
Dangerous Tekkers
Bayley & Sasha Banks
The North
Best Friends
Lucha Brothers
Hiroshi Tanahashi & Kota Ibushi
(Tied) Santana & Ortiz, Bobby Fish & Kyle O'Reilly
*Best on Interviews*

Eddie Kingston
Jon Moxley
MJF
Cody Rhodes
Chris Jericho
Taz
Roman Reigns
Jay White
Pat McAfee
Randy Orton
*Promotion of the Year*

AEW
NJPW
WWE
Stardom
UFC
Pro Wrestling Noah
Impact Wrestling
Dragon Gate
ROH
DDT
*Best Weekly TV Show*

AEW Dynamite
WWE NXT
Being the Elite
AEW Dark
WWE SmackDown
NJPW Strong
ROH
Impact Wrestling
MLW Fusion
WWE NXT UK
*Match of the Year*

Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Young Bucks (AEW Revolution)
Kazuchika Okada vs. Kota Ibushi (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 1)
FTR vs. Young Bucks (AEW Full Gear)
Kazuchika Okada vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 2)
Ilja Dragunov vs. WALTER (NXT UK, October 2020)
Kota Ibushi vs. Minoru Suzuki (NJPW G1 Climax, Night 13)
Hiromu Takahashi vs. Will Ospreay (NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 1)
Go Shiozaki vs. Takashi Sugiura (Noah Final Chronicle)
Stadium Stampede (AEW Double or Nothing)
Adam Page, Alex Reynolds & John Silver vs. MJF, Ortiz & Santana (AEW Dynamite - Brodie Lee Tribute Show)
*Category B Awards

US/Canada MVP*

Jon Moxley
Kenny Omega
Cody Rhodes
Drew McIntyre
Roman Reigns
Chris Jericho
Bayley
Adam Cole
Adam Page
*Japan MVP*

Tetsuya Naito
Kota Ibushi
Go Shiozaki
Kazuchika Okada
Mayu Iwatani
Minoru Suzuki
Hiromu Takahashi
Will Ospreay
Tomohiro Ishii
Shingo Takagi
*Mexico MVP*

Rey Fénix
Laredo Kid
Pagano
LA Park
Volador, Jr.
Psycho Clown
Kenny Omega
Rush
Pentagón, Jr.
Ultimo Guerrero
*Europe MVP*

WALTER
Will Ospreay
Zack Sabre, Jr.
Cara Noir
Ilja Dragunov
*Non-Heavyweight MVP*

Hiromu Takahashi
Rey Fénix
Darby Allin
Rey Mysterio
El Phantasmo
*Women's MVP*

Bayley
Mayu Iwatani
Sasha Banks
Asuka
Hikaru Shida
Io Shirai
Giulia
Thunder Rosa
Yuka Sakazaki
(Tied) Britt Baker, Hana Kimura, Serena Deeb
*Best Box Office Draw*

Conor McGregor
Jon Moxley
Chris Jericho
Tetsuya Naito
Roman Reigns
Kenny Omega
Young Bucks
Khabib Nurmagomedov
Jorge Masvidal
Cody Rhodes
*Feud of the Year*

Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW)
Cody Rhodes vs. Brodie Lee (AEW)
Adam Page vs. Kenny Omega (AEW)
Jon Moxley vs. Chris Jericho (AEW)
FTR vs. Young Bucks (AEW)
MJF vs. Cody Rhodes (AEW)
Adam Page & Kenny Omega vs. Young Bucks (AEW)
Jey Uso vs. Roman Reigns (WWE)
The Elite vs. The Inner Circle (AEW)
Edge vs. Randy Orton (WWE)
*Most Improved*

Britt Baker
Giulia
John Silver
Taichi
Jungle Boy
Brodie Lee
Roman Reigns
Tay Conti
YOSHI-HASHI
Adam Page
*Most Charismatic*

MJF
Orange Cassidy
Jon Moxley
Hiroshi Tanahashi
Eddie Kingston
Chris Jericho
Cody Rhodes
Tetsuya Naito
Kenny Omega
Ricky Starks
*Bryan Danielson Award (Best Technical Wrestler)*

Zack Sabre, Jr.
Daniel Bryan
Jonathan Gresham
Kyle O'Reilly
Timothy Thatcher
Will Ospreay
Kenny Omega
Minoru Suzuki
Syuri
Kota Ibushi
*Bruiser Brody Memorial Award (Best Brawler)*

Jon Moxley
Tomohiro Ishii
Brodie Lee
Minoru Suzuki
Shingo Takagi
Eddie Kingston
WALTER
Matthew Justice
*Best Flying Wrestler*

Rey Fénix
Will Ospreay
Hiromu Takahashi
Nick Jackson
Darby Allin
Dragon Dia
Rey Mysterio
Matt Jackson
(Tied) El Hijo Del Vikingo, Bandido
*Most Overrated* (= most over-pushed)

Bray Wyatt
EVIL
King Corbin
Nia Jax
Braun Strowman
Goldberg
Cody Rhodes
(Tied) Seth Rollins, The Miz
Charlotte Flair
*Most Underrated* (= most under-pushed)

Ricochet
Chad Gable
Riddle
(Tied) Cesaro, Mustafa Ali
Keith Lee
Tomohiro Ishii
Rey Fénix
Toa Henare
Aleister Black
*Rookie of the Year*

Pat McAfee
Anna Jay
SB KENTo
Dominik Mysterio
Top Flight
Will Hobbs
Benjamin Carter
Blake Christian
Alan Angels
Yuki Mashiro
*Best Non-Wrestler*

az
Paul Heyman
Don Callis
Tony Schiavone
Jake Roberts
Adam Pearce
Zelina Vega
*Best Television Announcer*

Excalibur
Kevin Kelly
Tony Schiavone
Jim Ross
Mark Pickering
Hugo Savinovich
Wade Barrett
Chris Jericho
Ian Riccobani
(Tied) Jae Church, Samoa Joe
*Worst Television Announcer*

Michael Cole
Corey Graves
Beth Phoenix
Jim Ross
Josh Mathews
Byron Saxton
Tom Phillips
Madison Rayne
Vic Joseph
*Best Major Wrestling Show*

AEW Revolution
NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 1
NJPW G1 Climax, Night 13
AEW Dynamite (Brodie Lee Tribute Show)
AEW Double or Nothing
AEW Full Gear
NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 14, Night 2
WWE Royal Rumble
NXT TakeOver: Portland
*Worst Major Wrestling Show*

WWE Super ShowDown
WWE The Horror Show at Extreme Rules
WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 2
WWE Money in the Bank
AEW All Out
WWE Survivor Series
WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 1
WWE TLC
*Best Wrestling Manoeuvre*

One Winged Angel (Kenny Omega)
Buckshot Lariat (Adam Page)
Buckshot V-Trigger (Adam Page & Kenny Omega)
Kamigoye (Kota Ibushi)
(Tied) Paradigm Shift (Jon Moxley), Hidden Blade (Will Ospreay)
Stormbreaker (Will Ospreay)
Coffin Drop (Darby Allin)
Pumping Bomber (Shingo Takagi)
Whirling Candy (Mizuki)
Black Arrow (Pac)
*Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic*

WWE firing everyone during a pandemic
WWE operating without COVID testing
WWE banning talent from third party opportunities
WWE running in Saudi Arabia
AEW continuing Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara
Rey Mysterio losing his eye angle
Dana White attempting to run a show on a Native American reservation
(Tied) WWE continuing to employ wrestlers with sexual misconduct allegations, Bushiroad handling the death of Hana Kimura
WWE turning Drake Maverick firing into storyline
*Worst Television Show*

WWE Raw
Impact Wrestling
WWE SmackDown
ROH
(Tied) WWE NXT, WWE 205 Live
*Worst Match of the Year*

Braun Strowman vs. The Fiend (WWE The Horror Show at Extreme Rules)
Goldberg vs. The Fiend (WWE Super ShowDown)
Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (AEW All Out)
Edge vs. Randy Orton (WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 2)
Bray Wyatt vs. John Cena (WWE WrestleMania 36, Part 2)
Brock Lesnar vs. Ricochet (WWE Super ShowDown)
Jado vs. Toru Yano (NJPW New Japan Cup, Night 1)
Britt Baker vs. Big Swole (AEW All Out)
Randy Orton vs. The Fiend (WWE TLC)
Braun Strowman vs. The Fiend (WWE SummerSlam)
*Worst Feud of the Year*

Braun Strowman vs. Bray Wyatt (WWE)
Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton (WWE)
Lana vs. Nia Jax (WWE)
Rey Mysterio vs. Seth Rollins (WWE)
EVIL vs. Tetsuya Naito (NJPW)
Retribution vs. WWE (WWE)
Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (AEW)
Street Profits vs. Viking Raiders (WWE)
(Tied) Jeff Hardy vs. Sheamus (WWE), Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy (AEW)
*Worst Promotion of the Year*

WWE
Impact Wrestling
ROH
MLW
NJPW
*Best Booker*

Tony Khan
Gedo
Nosawa Rongai
Rossy Ogawa
Sanshiro Takagi
Paul Levesque
Hunter Johnson
*Promoter of the Year*

Tony Khan
Dana White
Sanshiro Takagi
Harold Meij
(Tied) Joe Koff, Brett Lauderdale
Vince McMahon
*Best Gimmick*

Orange Cassidy
Brodie Lee
Roman Reigns
Adam Page
Darby Allin
Kenny Omega
MJF
The Fiend
Eddie Kingston
Dark Order
*Worst Gimmick*

The Fiend
Retribution
Alexa Bliss
Seth Rollins
Master Wato
Dexter Lumis
King Corbin
Lana
Great-O-Khan
Miro
*Best Pro-Wrestling Book*

Killing the Business (Young Bucks)
Eighth Wonder of the World (Pat Laprade & Bertrand Hebert)
Under the Black Hat (Jim Ross)
Shamrock: World's Most Dangerous Man (Jonathan Snowden)
Wrestling Observer Yearbook: 1997 (Dave Meltzer)
NJPW Year in Review 2020 (Voices of Wrestling)
Master of the Ring (Tim Hornbaker)
*Best Pro-Wrestling Documentary*

Dark Side of the Ring: Owen Hart
Dark Side of the Ring: Chris Benoit
WWE The Last Ride
Dark Side of the Ring: Herb Abrams
You Cannot Kill David Arquette
WWE 24: Edge
(Tied) Dark Side of the Ring: Brawl for All, AEW Road to Full Gear
Dark Side of the Ring: New Jack


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

And here is the breakdown of the Wrestler of the Year award. Moxley won it in dominating fashion:


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

Can't argue with Moxley. He's operating on another level on promo work and I've enjoyed the fact he's mixing it up in his matches with multiple finishers that can get him the win.


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## Pentagon Senior (Nov 16, 2019)

Great to see Mox, Omega, Kingston, MJF and Fenix heavily represented. All great talents in different ways. 

Bucks no. 1 will be divisive 😲 

I'm sure some will think Reigns and SmackDown should be further up the lists and they probably would be if not for the fact the improvement only really occurred during the last few months of 2020.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

How does Being The Elite qualify as a TV Show?
I'm happy that Big Swole got recognised as having one of the worst matches of the entire year.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

The bucks are the best tag team going around


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## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

Meltzer loves AEW, that's clear


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Meltzer likes AEW. What a surprise. I can´t take this list seriously at all.
But I will say that Brodie as #2 for "best gimmick" is probably due to his untimely death (rip)
And 
*Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic *
(Tied) WWE continuing to employ wrestlers with sexual misconduct allegations, Bushiroad handling the death of Hana Kimura .

Jimmy Havoc (AEW)
Darby Allin (AEW)
Sammy Guevara (AEW)
Justin Roberts (AEW)
They were all accused of sexual misconduct, but only Jimmy Havok was released (and wasn´t that after he had gone through some sensitivity training, and then they brought him back until new allegations popped up?)

Meltzer and the AEW sjw´s shouldn´t be throwing glass in a house made of rocks.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Some really dumb people here....

The fans voted not Meltzer


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## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

Meltzer stopped being important years ago, no one takes it seriously anymore.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

3venflow said:


> *Most Overrated* (= most over-pushed)
> 
> Bray Wyatt
> EVIL
> ...


This coming from a diehard AEW audience that basically pulls a clean sweep.

Fuck you, Cody, you fucking Bleached Blonde Dipshit!


3venflow said:


> *Worst Feud of the Year*
> 
> Braun Strowman vs. Bray Wyatt (WWE)
> Bray Wyatt vs. Randy Orton (WWE)
> ...


_cough_


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

yeahright2 said:


> Meltzer likes AEW. What a surprise. I can´t take this list seriously at all.
> But I will say that Brodie as #2 for "best gimmick" is probably due to his untimely death (rip)
> And
> *Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic *
> ...


Sammy Guevara was not accused of sexual misconduct. He made a bad rape joke on a podcast and has since apologized in every way possible including directly to the person he made the comment about.


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## BigDeadEvil (Jan 23, 2018)

I wonder how much Khan is paying Meltzer? this list is laughable.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

rbl85 said:


> Some really dumb people here....
> 
> The fans voted not Meltzer


Maybe not but 
"The awards are voted for by the newsletter's readership, which includes various insiders of the industry, such as promoters, agents, and performers, as well as journalists, historians, and fans. "
That´s paid subscribers if you should have any doubt, and anyone who still follow Uncle Dave´s garbage is biased towards AEW. Uncle Dave also went out of his way to tweet that the Brodie tribute show counted as a 2020 show


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

How many times does it have to be said - Meltzer does not decide the winners. They're decided by literally thousands of subscribers to his dirt sheet. So the wrestling fans are the ones you want to criticise if you can't handle an opinion different than your own.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Prized Fighter said:


> Sammy Guevara was not accused of sexual misconduct. He made a bad rape joke on a podcast and has since apologized in every way possible including directly to the person he made the comment about.


"Rape jokes" is still sexual misconduct, no? It is in the very minor league, and wouldn´t have been a thing if people weren´t so sensitive these days, but there´s no "degrees" in sexual misconduct. If you fire one, you fire them all. But the only one AEW let go was Jimmy Havok
For the record, I don´t approve of WWE keeping Velveteen Dream and Riddle while letting others go, just because they saw Riddle and Dream as potential valuable.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Lol’d at Jim Ross getting 4th for best and worst television announcer. 😂


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

yeahright2 said:


> Maybe not but
> "The awards are voted for by the newsletter's readership, which includes various insiders of the industry, such as promoters, agents, and performers, as well as journalists, historians, and fans. "
> That´s paid subscribers if you should have any doubt, and anyone who still follow Uncle Dave´s garbage is biased towards AEW. Uncle Dave also went out of his way to tweet that the Brodie tribute show counted as a 2020 show


I'm a paid sub to Dave and enjoy listening to him, but I don't think I'm bias, that's kinda unfair. I mean I can say anybody who listens to Cornette then is bias against AEW then.

Anyway, these are always going to be somewhat bias towards what Dave likes, so I'm not surprised here, but I could have seen Smackdown winning more if we got this booking more that a couple months at the end there. Some is silly, like Dark being better than SD or FTR/Bucks being on there at all for best feud, but that's just my opinion. But SquaredCircle rated AEW highly too and there are a lot more participants there (PWI did as well) so it makes me kinda assume that your average more hardcore wrestling fan just prefers AEW right now.


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## Strategize (Sep 1, 2016)

rbl85 said:


> Some really dumb people here....
> 
> The fans voted not Meltzer


Lol, it's a group of about 1000 people that sub to listen to them every day. Therefore the results mirror their opinions almost to a T. 

Except this is actually an even more exaggerated version of that. Basically going cult-like WWE bad, AEW good with very few deviations from that formula. I mean were talking about the kind of people that have Omega as a bigger draw than Reigns or Khabib...


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Some of the choices are wild Cody vs Brodie a top 2 feud of the year

FTR vs The Bucks being a top feud and match

Shout out to all the love Eddie's mic work gets.


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## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

I can't believe how Young bucks vs Omega vs Page won "Best Match".


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

In fairness, I think the AEW fans are by and large a group looking for positive reinforcement. So, they will be more likely to pay attention to WON because Brian and Dave enjoy the AEW product.




theclaymorekick said:


> I can't believe how Young bucks vs Omega vs Page won "Best Match".


That was the best match IMO

I do find it interesting that Dynamite and NXT were voted the 2 best weekly shows, yet they are the 3rd and 4th most watched. So, basically, these awards don't really mean anything but they are fun.


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## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

Geeee said:


> That was the best match IMO


I prefer Ilja Dragunov vs.WALTER or Kazuchika Okada vs.Kota Ibushi.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

theclaymorekick said:


> I prefer Ilja Dragunov vs.WALTER or Kazuchika Okada vs.Kota Ibushi.


Good for you but guess what you're not the center of the world


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## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

rbl85 said:


> Good for you but guess what you're not the center of the world


When I said that?


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

theclaymorekick said:


> I prefer Ilja Dragunov vs.WALTER or Kazuchika Okada vs.Kota Ibushi.


To be fair, I pretty much only watched AEW this year, so my pick is definitely biased. I did watch Okada vs Ibushi but missed the whole build to that match, so again this affects my enjoyment. I have never seen an episode of NXT UK, so I probably would never even consider a match from them in my MotY.

That being said, the story of Bucks vs Omega and Page was one that really resonated with me. This match was my favourite of at least the last 5 years.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

theclaymorekick said:


> I prefer Ilja Dragunov vs.WALTER or Kazuchika Okada vs.Kota Ibushi.


I did too actually, but I can easily see people liking either of those three the most. All of them are outstandingly great matches, so I don't really see the issue too much. It's not like a Fiend match won or something haha.


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## Lenny Leonard (Dec 17, 2016)

How far up tiny khans ass can meltz get.
I noticed exploiting an 8 year old who lost his dad and doing a skit in Vegas during a pandemic arent there.

Oh also drowning matt hardy after another wrestler died from drowning


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Lenny Leonard said:


> How far up tiny khans ass can meltz get.
> I noticed exploiting an 8 year old who lost his dad and doing a skit in Vegas during a pandemic arent there


Tbf to Meltzer it's voted by his subscribers


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Meltzer's Kool-aid is strong. A lot of this is just hilarious. Excalibur as best announcer. Bucks as best tag team. Mox vs Kingston is feud of the year??? Flipochet as most underrated? He SUCKS.

At least they got Michael Cole right as worst announcer and RAW as worst show.

I would say Jericho vs Trashidy with the pools of juice was worst match of the year though.


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## the_hound (Jun 14, 2016)

so a prick wearing sun glases who has his hands in his pockets is a better character than the fiend? bte is better than smackdown? omega had one fucking match in 2020 in mexico (i think 4 career matches in total held in mexico) broodie 6 man being there but the parking lot brawl not.

year of the SIMP AWARDS


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

3venflow said:


> AEW pulled off a clean sweep of the Category A awards in the 2020 Wrestling Observer Newsletter awards and won many others.
> 
> These awards are not decided by Dave Meltzer, but by subscribers to the WON. A very interesting contrast to some of the views on this forum, which I'm sure we'll be hearing in response to these.
> 
> ...


Oh brother

you’ll hear some opinions about this one


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## TheGreatBanana (Jul 7, 2012)

More like overrated by the WON. It’s clear as day that Meltzer is bias towards AEW, especially if you listen to his podcasts. The guy is a shill and lost his credibility in the past few years.


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## Pablo Escobar (Mar 22, 2007)

AEW got their money's worth. I like AEW, but it's like no other promotions exist.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Wrestling fans think AEW Dark is better than Smackdown lol. I agree with most of the list, AEW is where it’s at whether people want to admit that or not.




Two Sheds said:


> Meltzer's Kool-aid is strong. A lot of this is just hilarious. Excalibur as best announcer. Bucks as best tag team. Mox vs Kingston is feud of the year??? Flipochet as most underrated? He SUCKS.
> 
> At least they got Michael Cole right as worst announcer and RAW as worst show.
> 
> I would say Jericho vs Trashidy with the pools of juice was worst match of the year though.


As bad as that was, it was nowhere as bad as Strowman vs Wyatt when they feuded for like 5 months. At least OC and Jericho’s first match was partly decent as a 5/10 or 6/10. That alone beats all of the Braun/Wyatt stuff. The Fiend is cool but the feud was truly WOAT. Mox vs Kingston was a feud based on real blood shit so I see why people voted that.


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## the_hound (Jun 14, 2016)

jim ross 4th best and 4th worst....................
bte and dark match squashes better tha smackdown
certain wwe ppvs as worst ppvs, the best feud by a country fucking mile is roman and jey fucking uso jesus christ......seriously away to fuck with this biased shit


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Meltzer's subscribers tend to take his word as gospel and will do anything to praise AEW no matter how bad the product has been the last year, so no surprises here.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Meltzer's subscribers tend to take his word as gospel and will do anything to praise AEW no matter how bad the product has been the last year, so no surprises here.


Is this the excuse now? People can think and vote for themselves and clearly you’re in the minority of people that think the show is bad. You disagree with people’s votes and opinions and now all of a sudden they’re mindless clone followers who make their decisions solely to keep Meltzer happy and not because they actually think the show is good lol. You guys truly crack me up on WF, that’s why I keep coming back. Whatever helps you people cope I guess.

Social media is always raving about Dynamite every week especially on YouTube and Twitter. I go to other forums like Reddit and there’s nothing but hyped fans. If you want to say this then keep the same energy with Cornette fans who may or may not take his word for gospel.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Prosper said:


> Is this the excuse now? People can think and vote for themselves and clearly you’re in the minority of people that think the show is bad. You disagree with people’s votes and opinions and now all of a sudden they’re mindless clone followers who make their decisions solely to keep Meltzer happy and not because they actually think the show is good lol. You guys truly crack me up on WF, that’s why I keep coming back. Whatever helps you people cope I guess.
> 
> Social media is always raving about Dynamite every week especially on YouTube and Twitter. I go to other forums like Reddit and there’s nothing but hyped fans. If you want to say this then keep the same energy with Cornette fans who may or may not take his word for gospel.


Some of the votes WERE hilariously bad though. The Kool-aid is strong with the few thousand people who voted.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> I'm a paid sub to Dave and enjoy listening to him, but I don't think I'm bias, that's kinda unfair. I mean I can say anybody who listens to Cornette then is bias against AEW then.
> 
> Anyway, these are always going to be somewhat bias towards what Dave likes, so I'm not surprised here, but I could have seen Smackdown winning more if we got this booking more that a couple months at the end there. Some is silly, like Dark being better than SD or FTR/Bucks being on there at all for best feud, but that's just my opinion. But SquaredCircle rated AEW highly too and there are a lot more participants there (PWI did as well) so it makes me kinda assume that your average more hardcore wrestling fan just prefers AEW right now.


You seem to have a more reasonable approach to AEW than some other people. But I still claim that those who follow Uncle Dave in general is more favorable towards AEW than the average wrestling fan. That´s just the way things work.. Influencers earn a ton of money to shill whatever product that´s sponsoring them. WON is no different. And I accept that, it just makes his awards worthless.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

yeahright2 said:


> You seem to have a more reasonable approach to AEW than some other people. But I still claim that those who follow Uncle Dave in general is more favorable towards AEW than the average wrestling fan. That´s just the way things work.. Influencers earn a ton of money to shill whatever product that´s sponsoring them. WON is no different. And I accept that, it just makes his awards worthless.


Oh in that case yeah that isn't surprising. I've followed him since like 2016 or so prior to AEW so it didn't really effect me as much, but it's certain it does to a lot of people. 

I mean realistically they are still cool awards to get I suppose, but yeah they don't really mean anything. Really the most meaningful think WON does is the HOF, which is much different and lacks a lot of the bias given the specific people who do the voting.



Two Sheds said:


> Some of the votes WERE hilariously bad though. The Kool-aid is strong with the few thousand people who voted.


Agreed. I actually wanted to vote but forgot but man I feel like an outcast compared to some of these voters. Stuff like JR being best commentator, FTR and the Bucks as a feud of the year, and Dark being better than Smackdown were hilarious, and I like AEW a lot as you know.

This makes me actually want to see Cornette's listeners all answer these same questions. I'm curious how the results would show up tbf.


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Prosper said:


> Is this the excuse now? People can think and vote for themselves and clearly you’re in the minority of people that think the show is bad. You disagree with people’s votes and opinions and now all of a sudden they’re mindless clone followers who make their decisions solely to keep Meltzer happy and not because they actually think the show is good lol. You guys truly crack me up on WF, that’s why I keep coming back. Whatever helps you people cope I guess.
> 
> Social media is always raving about Dynamite every week especially on YouTube and Twitter. I go to other forums like Reddit and there’s nothing but hyped fans. If you want to say this then keep the same energy with Cornette fans who may or may not take his word for gospel.


Bro I never once said it was to keep Meltzer happy, but anyone can see that most of his subscribers tend to parrot his opinions more often than not. And yes I may be in the minority because 90% of AEW's audience is hardcore smark fans, they don't cater to any other audience. If people wanna think Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks and most of AEW's roster has done a great job that's great, but from a storytelling and character driven standpoint the show has sucked in my opinion, there's no real defined characters, and the only guys I ever bother tuning in for segments are Miro, Britt Baker and Brian Cage, those are the best 3 they have in my opinion.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Agreed. I actually wanted to vote but forgot but man I feel like an outcast compared to some of these voters. Stuff like JR being best commentator, FTR and the Bucks as a feud of the year, and Dark being better than Smackdown were hilarious, and I like AEW a lot as you know.
> 
> This makes me actually want to see Cornette's listeners all answer these same questions. I'm curious how the results would show up tbf.


Well, Cornette has talked about doing a parody of the awards but I am not sure if it would be him picking or the listeners.

I guess ultimately I do not care about awards whether they be Meltzer, Cornette, the Oscars, Emmy's etc. I generally like things that most people do not anyway. Most people in the US watch dumb "reality" shows.

It is just hilarious to me that a group of people actually believe some of the things they voted for here.


----------



## P Thriller (Jan 6, 2016)

It is what it is. I don't completely disagree with a lot of this.

One that stands out to me as being ridiculous is Being The Elite was ranked above SmackDown on the list of best weekly shows. That's just stupid. BTE is just a short comedy gag reel, SmackDown has actually been a pretty good show for a while now and consistently dominates AEW in terms of viewers. 

Sasha vs Bayley not making feud of the year is a little ridiculous too. FTR vs the Young Bucks has no business on that list. Match was great but the feud was horribly done, it was a terrible build. Obviously this lost is bias towards smarks and right now it's cooler to like AEW. Which again, I'm ok with mostly, but this takes it a bit too far.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

The voters are Meltzer marks who listened to his opinions all year. It’s almost a cult at this point. Nobody else cares.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

I mean.....who gives a shit what Meltzer and a bunch of smarks think? They don't understand wrestling anyway. A big reason why no one watches anymore is because the boys and unfortunately even promoters are influenced by them


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Two Sheds said:


> Some of the votes WERE hilariously bad though. The Kool-aid is strong with the few thousand people who voted.


Like which ones? I think OC winning the "Best Gimmick" is wrong, I'd put The Fiend's gimmick over OC's.

Did you see Ricochet in NXT and LU? He was over AF. WWE are the ones that fucked him up and gave him a mic on the main roster. They don't know how to use him. Triple H used him perfectly.

And you just hate the Young Bucks but that's not majority opinion lol. But I do agree that the FTR feud was bad and shouldnt be up there.

I think everything else is pretty spot on. I would say Orton vs Edge should be on there somewhere but the feud died when Edge got injured.



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Bro I never once said it was to keep Meltzer happy, but anyone can see that most of his subscribers tend to parrot his opinions more often than not. And yes I may be in the minority because 90% of AEW's audience is hardcore smark fans, they don't cater to any other audience. If people wanna think Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks and most of AEW's roster has done a great job that's great, but from a storytelling and character driven standpoint the show has sucked in my opinion, there's no real defined characters, and the only guys I ever bother tuning in for segments are Miro, Britt Baker and Brian Cage, those are the best 3 they have in my opinion.


Okay I didn't mean to come off like putting words in your mouth but that's the way it sounded to me. We're all hardcore smarks my guy, especially if you're on a forum. 

What other audiences are you talking about? Kids? Should they bring in Frooty Loop John Cena and Miley Cyrus to appeal to them? Old folks? They have all kinds of recognizable legends on the show right now. Casuals? What in your opinion should they do differently to appeal to these people who you think exist?

No real defined characters? What do you mean? Darby is defined as an enigma, an underdog, and a mysterious daredevil. MJF is defined as a snobby heel. Brian Cage is a badass meathead. Ricky Starks is a playboy. Jungle Boy is a Tarzan type underdog. Hangman is a drinking cowboy. Omega is the best in the world and the Cleaner. Moxley is a badass hardcore brawler. Santana and Ortiz are street thugs. Britt Baker is a dentist who will kick your ass. Cody is the son of a pro wrestling legend. I could go on and on. Everyone has a character for the most part.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

theclaymorekick said:


> I can't believe how Young bucks vs Omega vs Page won "Best Match".


It was a sloppy as shit spotfest. The match sucked. The fact that this is what they think was the best match of the year goes to show you how little credibility these so called awards have.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Prosper said:


> Like which ones? I think OC winning the "Best Gimmick" is wrong, I'd put The Fiend's gimmick over OC's.
> 
> Did you see Ricochet in NXT and LU? He was over AF. WWE are the ones that fucked him up and gave him a mic on the main roster. They don't know how to use him. Triple H used him perfectly.
> 
> ...


Excalibur as best announcer? He has Michael Cole beat, but so does my dog.

Young Bucks sucking IS the majority opinion since the majority of wrestling fans no longer watch any product.

Flipochet SUCKS. No, I did not watch LU just like the vast majority of everyone else. He is the blandest, geekiest, worst talker in WWE and that says A LOT. Get this dude off my screen. If he has an interesting side, they are doing herculean levels of work to hide it.

Mox vs Kingston was feud of the YEAR? I like Eddie a lot, but come ON. I would respect the awards more if they just said "Look 2020 sucked, no one deserves to win this year."

Obviously Trashidy should only be winning in the most overrated categories.


----------



## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

The XL 2 said:


> It was a sloppy as shit spotfest. The match sucked. The fact that this is what they think was the best match of the year goes to show you how little credibility these so called awards have.


As I said before, Meltzer hasn´t reputation anymore.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

I mean, just look at these awards. Omega is a mediocre worker and the Bucks can't work for shit and they're the best workers in the world apparently. Excalibur is literally the worst wrestling announcer in the history of the business and he was voted number 1 announcer. They're including MMA in the best box office list, and they've got Jorge Masvidal 9th on the list, behind people like Omega, the Bucks and Moxley. 500-600K more people paid 70 dollars to watch him fight(His last fight did 1.3 million buys) than they do watch Dynamite on TV for free. These idiots have no idea what they're talking about. They might as well poll homeless people about the stock market, it would have the same level of credibility as this nonsense.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Prosper said:


> Like which ones? I think OC winning the "Best Gimmick" is wrong, I'd put The Fiend's gimmick over OC's.
> 
> Did you see Ricochet in NXT and LU? He was over AF. WWE are the ones that fucked him up and gave him a mic on the main roster. They don't know how to use him. Triple H used him perfectly.
> 
> ...


Sort of agree with everything except the Ricochet point, the guy is the epitome of a bland wrestler, yes he can wrestle and do cool moves, great, so can every other guy on the roster, he has nothing that makes him stand out, plus can't agree on Triple H being a good booker, there's a reason NXT has been the worst show in wrestling since 2016, he's awful.


----------



## theclaymorekick (Feb 22, 2021)

They say that Dynamite is the best show, but in the ratings even RAW surpasses them.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

I like how people rate their own views so highly they, without any hesitation, dismiss the opinion of thousands of people as objectively wrong.

The tag match also won the Voices of Wrestling MOTY award which was voted on by wrestling bloggers/journalists of all types and preferences.

Maybe one's view of pro wrestling can be different to another's without it being wrong.

Personally, I would rate it number two behind Okada/Naito (although to get everything out of this match, you need to know the backstory) but that doesn't mean people who rate it number one are WRONG. It means they have a different opinion and the whole idea of votes/polls is to get a consensus.

Some people used to hate the Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi/Taue matches due to lack of storylines while some hated the Chono/Muto/Hashimoto matches in the rival promotion because they had inferior workrate and were more storyline-driven.



theclaymorekick said:


> They say that Dynamite is the best show, but in the ratings even RAW surpasses them.


The quality of a show is not determined by its TV ratings. There are so many variables here such as history, brand power and so on. WWE is a decades-old juggernaut so even when RAW sinks to new depths, there is still a base of around 1.8m.

ECW arguably put on better shows than both WCW and WWF in 1995, but hardly anyone outside of Philly and the internet knew about them.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Well, this was biased as fuck.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Two Sheds said:


> Excalibur as best announcer? He has Michael Cole beat, but so does my dog.
> 
> Young Bucks sucking IS the majority opinion since the majority of wrestling fans no longer watch any product.
> 
> ...


Who beats Excalibur? Real question. I don't watch any other promotions but who would you put over him?

Your Bucks response is not a real response lol. There are plenty of people who like the Bucks style of offense. Within the current wrestling landscape, the Bucks are enjoyed.

Ricochet didn't suck in NXT or in LU as Prince Puma. Both characters were actually quite cool. He almost never talked so you didn't have to worry about his geek bland side coming out. Richochet 100% sucks to you because you only watch RAW and only see how Vince presents him.

What's better than a blood brother feud where two guys are cutting phenomenal promos that add realism to them? This was the type of serious adult shit that you have been asking for and you're not willing to give them credit for it? What feud was more personal? What do you mean no one deserves to win in 2020?


----------



## Peerless (Aug 28, 2014)

It's kind of amusing to see how butthurt WWE shills are about these awards.


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

lmaoooooo

I get it now.

I understand part of the reason why Meltzer shills for AEW. The majority of the people left that sub to his newsletter are people who watch AEW. By being critical of AEW he'd only lose out.

All this shows is the demographic of his newsletter not the demographic of overall wrestling fans including lost fans.

Excalibur best announcer, organce best gimmick, Khan best booker so funny.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

Lenny Leonard said:


> How far up tiny khans ass can meltz get.
> I noticed exploiting an 8 year old who lost his dad and doing a skit in Vegas during a pandemic arent there.
> 
> Oh also drowning matt hardy after another wrestler died from drowning


That wrestler is black though, not Japanese so his death can be laughed about.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Sort of agree with everything except the Ricochet point, the guy is the epitome of a bland wrestler, yes he can wrestle and do cool moves, great, so can every other guy on the roster, he has nothing that makes him stand out, plus can't agree on Triple H being a good booker, there's a reason NXT has been the worst show in wrestling since 2016, he's awful.


NXT IMO has been great up until 2019. I think Triple is a very good booker, its just that Vince has a little more control in NXT now so the quality dropped.


----------



## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

I know someone who reads WON and votes there is going to be influenced by Mewltzer to a certain degree or at least have a bunch of opinions that align with his, but not as if he decided the nominees, let alone the votes.

Meltzer does nothing but praise Charlotte, even when other people shit on her, yet she ended up on the most overrated category. Also Bayley won woman of the year and made it to 3 tops despite the fact she's the one HW he praises the least out of the 4 by a considerable margin, so not as if the results were 100% his tastes.


Again, not saying his reviews and podcasts don't influence votes (Syuri's been mostly ignored by western fans since 12 yet she suddenly makes a top right after Meltzer started pimping her 2 months ago) but, at the same time, the very fact that a few names made it to both positive and negative lists (Fiend and JR) shows that the readership ain't totally monolithic.


----------



## Whoanma (Apr 5, 2016)

Kenny's omnipresent on that list, lol.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Peerless said:


> It's kind of amusing to see how butthurt WWE shills are about these awards.


Or it's just people with some common sense that think WWE should have been given some credit here instead of being such an aew shill that you think they really were this good in every single aspect.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Prosper said:


> NXT IMO has been great up until 2019. I think Triple is a very good booker, its just that Vince has a little more control in NXT now so the quality dropped.


Eh I can't say I agree unfortunately, 2015 was the last truly great time of NXT for me, then they started signing guys like Nakamura, re-signing Kassius Ohno, and further pillaging the Japanese and indy scenes, after all that started the quality dropped. Kevin Owens was bearable in 2015 when he still had that "psychotic fat guy" essence that he had with Kevin Steen, Joe was somewhat ok but got boring quick. The only guys in NXT I really think are any good are Kross and McAfee, Eli Drake too.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Peerless said:


> It's kind of amusing to see how butthurt WWE shills are about these awards.


Most people complaining don't even watch WWE, nice try.


----------



## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

The XL 2 said:


> I mean, just look at these awards. Omega is a mediocre worker and the Bucks can't work for shit and they're the best workers in the world apparently. Excalibur is literally the worst wrestling announcer in the history of the business and he was voted number 1 announcer. They're including MMA in the best box office list, and they've got Jorge Masvidal 9th on the list, behind people like Omega, the Bucks and Moxley. 500-600K more people paid 70 dollars to watch him fight(His last fight did 1.3 million buys) than they do watch Dynamite on TV for free. These idiots have no idea what they're talking about. They might as well poll homeless people about the stock market, it would have the same level of credibility as this nonsense.


Mixing MMA and Wrestling stuff together in these awards never made sense to me either, they are two totally different beasts really when it comes to promotion and such. 

But I mean wrestling critics, people on this forum, people on reddit, people on Cagematch, PWI, other forums and sites, etc. all rate Omega and the Bucks pretty high so I mean maybe the majority of the people think they are all great workers? I don't know where you base them being shit from other that personal opinions.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Klitschko said:


> Or it's just people with some common sense that think WWE should have been given some credit here instead of being such an aew shill that you think they really were this good in every single aspect.


One thing that I will say is shill worthy is putting DARK over Smackdown lol. DARK is great most weeks but that one was a little much. SD is still a full blown wrestling show with Roman Reigns and Sasha Banks in comparison to a show used as developmental. 



PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Eh I can't say I agree unfortunately, 2015 was the last truly great time of NXT for me, then they started signing guys like Nakamura, re-signing Kassius Ohno, and further pillaging the Japanese and indy scenes, after all that started the quality dropped. Kevin Owens was bearable in 2015 when he still had that "psychotic fat guy" essence that he had with Kevin Steen, Joe was somewhat ok but got boring quick. The only guys in NXT I really think are any good are Kross and McAfee, Eli Drake too.


Right now I would also say Kross and Scarlett with Finn Balor are great. The womens division is also pretty damn good. Not really much too interested in anything else on the card at the moment. Kind of tired of the whole Gargano and Undisputed Era presence. It certainly needs a drastic change. They just signed like 15 new recruits including Taya Valkyrie and Eli Drake so it seems like NXT will be changing pretty heavily soon. Maybe it will return to the level it was at before.


----------



## Peerless (Aug 28, 2014)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> Most people complaining don't even watch WWE, nice try.


The ones crying about it are those with Drew and Alexa Bliss avatars lmao.

Either way those who are butthurt about it are usually the anti-smarks. There's the group who take Cornette's word as gospel and will hate anything Kenny/Dave/Bucks related. Then there's the pro WWE shills who are sad that their favorites aren't getting praise so they just undermine anything Meltzer/AEW related. It's like their defense mechanism because they think AEW gets so much praise.

Personally, I think both shows are shit. AEW is slightly more entertaining because it isn't as scripted, but I wouldn't bother wasting time crying over who wins when it's literally the opinion of a couple thousand people subscribed to a wrestling newsletter LOL.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Prosper said:


> One thing that I will say is shill worthy is putting DARK over Smackdown lol. DARK is great most weeks but that one was a little much. SD is still a full blown wrestling show with Roman Reigns and Sasha Banks in comparison to a show used as developmental.
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I would also say Kross and Scarlett with Finn Balor are great. The womens division is also pretty damn good. Not really much too interested in anything else on the card at the moment. Kind of tired of the whole Gargano and Undisputed Era presence. It certainly needs a drastic change. They just signed like 15 new recruits including Taya Valkyrie and Eli Drake so it seems like NXT will be changing pretty heavily soon. Maybe it will return to the level it was at before.


Honestly Prosper that's the main part that pissed me off and say this shit is biased. Putting AEW Dark over Smackdown. Like what the fuck?


----------



## Londonlaw (Sep 16, 2009)

I’m going to copy an expression a friend of mine used when he read the awards.

At this stage, The Observer is not much more than a ‘nudie’ magazine for AEW fans.

That’s not to say it doesn’t have analytical and historical relevance, but it’s delivered through a very, very narrow prism by an editor who recently hubristically declared himself highly influential to all but 2 of the best bookers in the last 28 years.

Much of the readership and the editor seem to feed each other, and that likely reflects these results more than ever.

On that basis, I’m not going to hang my hat on these awards, and I’d suggest others continue to form their own opinions. If they match Meltzer’s, so be it.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Prosper said:


> Who beats Excalibur? Real question. I don't watch any other promotions but who would you put over him?
> 
> Your Bucks response is not a real response lol. There are plenty of people who like the Bucks style of offense. Within the current wrestling landscape, the Bucks are enjoyed.
> 
> ...


Who beats Excalibur? Just about everyone except Michael Cole. Jim Ross with a few flubs still beats him. Tony definitely does. Samoa Joe, Taz, Jericho when not screaming, Mauro Ranallo all do.

Plenty of people liked Hornswoggle too. It does not impress me. For me, the Bucks represent a long term limit on growing the audience and fanbase. Lapsed fans are going to view them mostly like I do from a selling and psychology perspective.

I am fully onboard with agreeing that Vince ruins a lot of people. When I asked before to show me something Flipochet does that is impressive, they sent me a video of him flipping in unison with some other flippy guy and doing a pose before a match started. It was major cringe. The last thing I want is for him to come to AEW and give me 20 minute versions of what he does in WWE.

Do not get me wrong, I did LIKE the stuff with Mox and Eddie, but feud of the year it was not. I agree Edge and Orton would have won if Edge did not get hurt, but how many months of 2020 was the Mox and Eddie feud? 2-3 it feels like which is shorter than Edge/Orton if we are going for length.

No one deserves to win in 2020 because almost everything felt held back, which is not anyone's fault, but no one is going to pick events from 2020 10-20 years from now to look back on and say "you HAVE to see this classic match/feud" like they do about so much from 20+ years ago.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Two Sheds said:


> No one deserves to win in 2020 because almost everything felt held back, which is not anyone's fault, but no one is going to pick events from 2020 10-20 years from now to look back on and say "you HAVE to see this classic match/feud" like they do about so much from 20+ years ago.


The Graveyard match between Undertaker and AJ Styles. The last match he had will go down in history as a classic, simply because it was the last.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

yeahright2 said:


> The Graveyard match between Undertaker and AJ Styles. The last match he had will go down in history as a classic, simply because it was the last.


Eh. No one is going to watch HBK in Saudi Arabia because it was technically his last match. Everyone is going to remember him vs Taker.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Mixing MMA and Wrestling stuff together in these awards never made sense to me either, they are two totally different beasts really when it comes to promotion and such.
> 
> But I mean wrestling critics, people on this forum, people on reddit, people on Cagematch, PWI, other forums and sites, etc. all rate Omega and the Bucks pretty high so I mean maybe the majority of the people think they are all great workers? I don't know where you base them being shit from other that personal opinions.


Idk if it makes opinions shit. But I do think the problem with fan voting is it's rarely interesting because it's so biased if you know the typical audience of the brand. 

For instance in 2011 Yao Ming got fan voted onto the NBA All-Star team, despite only playing 5 games due to an early season injury(the All Star game is mid season of a 82 game season), all because he was Chinese and had the support of an entire nation. 

We all know what's up with the current hardcore wrestling bubble so is it that hard to guess who would dominate a WON year end award fan vote. It's just as predictable as what would happen in a Jim Cornette group worst of the year fan vote.


----------



## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Two Sheds said:


> Who beats Excalibur? Just about everyone except Michael Cole. Jim Ross with a few flubs still beats him. Tony definitely does. Samoa Joe, Taz, Jericho when not screaming, Mauro Ranallo all do.
> 
> Plenty of people liked Hornswoggle too. It does not impress me. For me, the Bucks represent a long term limit on growing the audience and fanbase. Lapsed fans are going to view them mostly like I do from a selling and psychology perspective.
> 
> ...


Samoa Joe is cool but I think he is starting to lose his quality with Vince telling him to say the stuff he says. Taz, Jericho, and Mauro I agree.

The Bucks have improved their selling and psychology, though I do admit it was bad at first. Matt sold his leg injury to absolute perfection against FTR and their storytelling in the Hangman/Omega tag match last year was amazing. 

Edge and Orton would have won for the same reason that Mox and Kingston won. It was adult feud with a serious orientation to it. Also played into a lot of their history. The fact that Edge got injured means that it automatically goes to Mox/Kingston IMO.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Jay White not in the top 10 of best or most outstanding wrestler LMAO right.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Prosper said:


> Samoa Joe is cool but I think he is starting to lose his quality with Vince telling him to say the stuff he says. Taz, Jericho, and Mauro I agree.
> 
> The Bucks have improved their selling and psychology, though I do admit it was bad at first. Matt sold his leg injury to absolute perfection against FTR and their storytelling in the Hangman/Omega tag match last year was amazing.
> 
> Edge and Orton would have won for the same reason that Mox and Kingston won. It was adult feud with a serious orientation to it. Also played into a lot of their history. The fact that Edge got injured means that it automatically goes to Mox/Kingston IMO.


It would be hard not to improve their selling and psychology since it was nonexistent. But we are not talking about moving up a peg from bottom level, this is for the BEST team of the year and they are not in that conversation in a serious way. As I keep saying about the Bucks, the fact that they actually DO know how to work and actively choose not to the vast majority of the time, makes them worse than not knowing to me.

Feud of the year was the wrestling business vs lockdowns heh.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

The Doctor Middy Experience said:


> Mixing MMA and Wrestling stuff together in these awards never made sense to me either, they are two totally different beasts really when it comes to promotion and such.
> 
> But I mean wrestling critics, people on this forum, people on reddit, people on Cagematch, PWI, other forums and sites, etc. all rate Omega and the Bucks pretty high so I mean maybe the majority of the people think they are all great workers? I don't know where you base them being shit from other that personal opinions.


Vocal smarks on the internet who grew up reading the observer might think that they're great. But they don't know shit anyway.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Blatantly biased based on Meltzers opinions. Why do people take this as gospel.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

the_flock said:


> Blatantly biased based on Meltzers opinions. Why do people take this as gospel.


Luckily almost no one does.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Of course AEW dominated. It’s a spoiled sample. Meltzer shills to a couple of thousand people because they keep him in business and he can monetise more per head just like the dying wrestling.

These awards don’t mean shit (anymore). Some have always pissed on the Observer. Not me. But it’s high time I maybe realised I was wrong. You cannot go there for unbiased information or actual critical insight.


----------



## Lenny Leonard (Dec 17, 2016)

Also didn't khabibs retirement fight have over 600000 ppv buys? And Mox and Jerichovid are bigger draws than him? Lol


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

rbl85 said:


> Some really dumb people here....
> 
> The fans voted not Meltzer


These people pay to hear Dave Meltzer talk. They're a special kind of fan alright.


----------



## Peerless (Aug 28, 2014)

On the note regarding Meltzer and AEW he obviously feels proud of the fact that he played a role in its creation.

It's no secret him and Tony Khan are friends. Tony calls him regarding booking suggestions. What I find amusing is that how for years in the WWE, Meltzer would come up with all these scoops like "Reigns is the next FOTC", "Ambrose is a bigger draw than Reigns on house shows", "WWE wants Lesnar to squash Bryan". Intentional headlines to highlight specific agendas within the company.

However, he doesn't do any of that for AEW. He never states who's their biggest draw, he doesn't say what their long term plans are, and he doesn't spoil cards in advance. He does Tony a favour by keeping it all under wraps even though he has to know what's going on.

I think the last time he said anything like that was when he said AEW planned on having Jericho - Moxley - Omega - Page to be their world champions over the next 3 years. It was a passing comment that went under the radar, but he's stopped mentioning actual information like that for AEW.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lenny Leonard said:


> Also didn't khabibs retirement fight have over 600000 ppv buys? And Mox and Jerichovid are bigger draws than him? Lol


Yes, it’s mathematically impossible that Jon Moxley is the biggest draw in wrestling. It’s actually impossible. But what does Meltzer’s base know? Fookin’ nothing.



Peerless said:


> On the note regarding Meltzer and AEW he obviously feels proud of the fact that he played a role in its creation.
> 
> It's no secret him and Tony Khan are friends. Tony calls him regarding booking suggestions. What I find amusing is that how for years in the WWE, Meltzer would come up with all these scoops like "Reigns is the next FOTC", "Ambrose is a bigger draw than Reigns on house shows", "WWE wants Lesnar to squash Bryan". Intentional headlines to highlight specific agendas within the company.
> 
> ...


Yep, no problem ruining WWE. AEW needs their plans protected though.

Look, it’s a “journalists” prerogative what they do and don’t reveal. Fumi Saito hears a lot and doesn’t report it out of respect. That’s cool. But where it becomes annoying is when someone will spill whatever they get on one side and protect another so vigilantly. Meltzer deserves the reputation he gets for that. It’s his choice, but you cannot trust him. You cannot call him objective or reasonable. He just isn’t those things.


----------



## HankHill_85 (Aug 31, 2011)

Sums up the super hardcore audience quite nicely.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Excalibur won announcer of the year. That tells you everything you need to know about taste here. That is like Ninjago winning an Oscar.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Of course AEW dominated. It’s a spoiled sample. Meltzer shills to a couple of thousand people because they keep him in business and he can monetise more per head just like the dying wrestling.
> 
> These awards don’t mean shit (anymore). Some have always pissed on the Observer. Not me. But it’s high time I maybe realised I was wrong. You cannot go there for unbiased information or actual critical insight.


He was good in the 80s and early 90s, but by the mid 90s onwards it became increasingly obvious wrestlers and companies were paying him for favourable reviews and his own views got in the way of actual real reporting.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

the_flock said:


> He was good in the 80s and early 90s, but by the mid 90s onwards it became increasingly obvious wrestlers and companies were paying him for favourable reviews and his own views got in the way of actual real reporting.


He’s also going after people for attention now. Cornette has stopped engaging with him. Now he’s onto Bischoff. He will work his way down to worm whatever attention he can get.


----------



## Swindle (Jul 24, 2018)

What a pathetic circle jerk.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Ah, the anti-smarks seething over AEW (and even NJPW) dominating the award lists never fail to amuse me with their pettiness :lol

Anyway, some of you folks are seriously overrating Bray Wyatt’s character as the Fiend.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Ah, the anti-smarks seething over AEW (and even NJPW) dominating the award lists never fail to amuse me with their pettiness
> 
> Anyway, some of you folks are seriously overrating Bray Wyatt’s character as the Fiend.


Couldn't the same be said about folk saying Brodie had the 2nd best feud and gimmick of the year?


----------



## Swindle (Jul 24, 2018)

I'll take the Fiend over Miro the Gamer, Orange, Y2Fat any day of the week. And the Shaq/Cody stuff is probably one of the worst celeb wrestling feuds I can recall in a long long time.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> Ah, the anti-smarks seething over AEW (and even NJPW) dominating the award lists never fail to amuse me with their pettiness :lol


Apparently, Meltzer was on the NJPW payroll for the past eight years (2012~2019 was an unbroken streak of best promotion AND best match) based on the logic of the McManiacs, Camp Cornette and friends (that somehow everyone follows him blindly... shouldn't his book therefore have finished 1st, not 5th?). 

The irony is, people saying Meltzer has a cult literally parrot every word Cornette says about AEW, thus haven't a positive word to say about it.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Lord Taichi with two top 4 places. That's what I like to see. 😃

This list is going to have some people's piss boiling. But let's face facts, AEW has been the hottest, freshest most exciting promotion this past twelve months.

All in all there's only really Orange wiinning gimmick I strongly disagree with. MVP should be in the best interviews top 10 and Miyahara in the top 10 wrestlers. Mostly though the Observer readers are spot on.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

3venflow said:


> Apparently, Meltzer was on the NJPW payroll for the past eight years (2012~2019 was an unbroken streak of best promotion AND best match) based on the logic of the McManiacs, Camp Cornette and friends (that somehow everyone follows him blindly... shouldn't his book therefore have finished 1st, not 5th?).
> 
> The irony is, people saying Meltzer has a cult literally parrot every word Cornette says about AEW, thus haven't a positive word to say about it.


Oh, the supporters of Jim Cornette are DEFINITELY an actual cult for sure, dude.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

The Wood said:


> Excalibur won announcer of the year. That tells you everything you need to know about taste here. That is like Ninjago winning an Oscar.


Excalbur with his enthusiasm for the product, knowing the names of the moves, having a history with the talent and educating the audience on their backgrounds, being on top of his brief and understanding the flow of the show. 

Yeah, fuck that guy !


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

I almost forgot about a big gem from these awards.

Orange Cassidy won the Best Gimmick award! That's great news for him!! 

I guess there are actually plenty of wrestling fans who genuinely care to see him on TV (with a push of course) no matter how many times his critics keep bashing him


----------



## Smithy.89 (Apr 9, 2019)

😂 I read like 5 down and gave in. Mlw is a better show than raw


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

bdon said:


> This coming from a diehard AEW audience that basically pulls a clean sweep.
> 
> Fuck you, Cody, you fucking Bleached Blonde Dipshit!
> 
> _cough_


Dude, Cody Rhodes isn't even in the Top 5


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The XL 2 said:


> I mean.....who gives a shit what Meltzer and a bunch of smarks think? They don't understand wrestling anyway. A big reason why no one watches anymore is because the boys and unfortunately even promoters are influenced by them


Anti-smarks like yourself sure seem to care deeply about what Dave Meltzer thinks in 2021.

The guy is pretty much minding his own business, and giving his opinions concerning wrestling topics, but yet he gets so much irrational hatred just for DOING his job 😂

Anyway, it's ironic that critics like yourself are even bold enough to claim that the fans "don't" understand wrestling when it's really the other way around 



The XL 2 said:


> I mean, just look at these awards. Omega is a mediocre worker and the Bucks can't work for shit and they're the best workers in the world apparently. Excalibur is literally the worst wrestling announcer in the history of the business and he was voted number 1 announcer. They're including MMA in the best box office list, and they've got Jorge Masvidal 9th on the list, behind people like Omega, the Bucks and Moxley. 500-600K more people paid 70 dollars to watch him fight(His last fight did 1.3 million buys) than they do watch Dynamite on TV for free. These idiots have no idea what they're talking about. They might as well poll homeless people about the stock market, it would have the same level of credibility as this nonsense.


Damn, I didn't realize that Kenny Omega being one of the best wrestlers on the planet made you seethe so much :lol

This poor rant gets a big yikes.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Oops, I'm sorry for the double-post. I thought somebody else posted before me.



The XL 2 said:


> I mean, just look at these awards. Omega is a mediocre worker and the Bucks can't work for shit and they're the best workers in the world apparently. Excalibur is literally the worst wrestling announcer in the history of the business and he was voted number 1 announcer. They're including MMA in the best box office list, and they've got Jorge Masvidal 9th on the list, behind people like Omega, the Bucks and Moxley. 500-600K more people paid 70 dollars to watch him fight(His last fight did 1.3 million buys) than they do watch Dynamite on TV for free. These idiots have no idea what they're talking about. They might as well poll homeless people about the stock market, it would have the same level of credibility as this nonsense.


Damn, I didn't realize that Kenny Omega being one of the best wrestlers on the planet made you seethe so m


Peerless said:


> The ones crying about it are those with Drew and Alexa Bliss avatars lmao.
> 
> Either way those who are butthurt about it are usually the anti-smarks. There's the group who take Cornette's word as gospel and will hate anything Kenny/Dave/Bucks related. Then there's the pro WWE shills who are sad that their favorites aren't getting praise so they just undermine anything Meltzer/AEW related. It's like their defense mechanism because they think AEW gets so much praise.
> 
> Personally, I think both shows are shit. AEW is slightly more entertaining because it isn't as scripted, but I wouldn't bother wasting time crying over who wins when it's literally the opinion of a couple thousand people subscribed to a wrestling newsletter LOL.


Yep, you make a good point here.

Dude, I'm not thrilled that Seth Rollins (one of my top favorites in WWE) ended up being nominated in the negative categories (although fairly low), but you don't see me whining about it 

I actually agree with like 70-80% of these award results for the most part


----------



## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

Walter over Ospraey, fuck off.


----------



## Schwartzxz (Jul 9, 2017)

only goofballs care about those stupid awards.


----------



## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

Hotdiggity11 said:


> Lol’d at Jim Ross getting 4th for best and worst television announcer. 😂


He earned both.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

AthleticGirth said:


> Lord Taichi with two top 4 places. That's what I like to see. 😃
> 
> This list is going to have some people's piss boiling. But let's face facts, AEW has been the hottest, freshest most exciting promotion this past twelve months.
> 
> All in all there's only really Orange wiinning gimmick I strongly disagree with. MVP should be in the best interviews top 10 and Miyahara in the top 10 wrestlers. Mostly though the Observer readers are spot on.


MIayhara had a pretty lowkey year all things considered so its to be expecteded.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

AthleticGirth said:


> Lord Taichi with two top 4 places. That's what I like to see. 😃
> 
> This list is going to have some people's piss boiling. But let's face facts, AEW has been the hottest, freshest most exciting promotion this past twelve months.
> 
> All in all there's only really Orange wiinning gimmick I strongly disagree with. MVP should be in the best interviews top 10 and Miyahara in the top 10 wrestlers. Mostly though the Observer readers are spot on.


It hasn’t been the hottest. That’s mathematically impossible



AthleticGirth said:


> Excalbur with his enthusiasm for the product, knowing the names of the moves, having a history with the talent and educating the audience on their backgrounds, being on top of his brief and understanding the flow of the show.
> 
> Yeah, fuck that guy !


Excalibur doesn’t educate anyone on shit. “THAT’S WRESTLER X FROM PROMOTION Y!!!” doesn’t give you shit. He’s annoying, his cadence sucks, he doesn’t know how to do the actual fucking job, which is being a conduit between the product and the audience. Not knowing the names of moves. 



DammitChrist said:


> Anti-smarks like yourself sure seem to care deeply about what Dave Meltzer thinks in 2021.
> 
> The guy is pretty much minding his own business, and giving his opinions concerning wrestling topics, but yet he gets so much irrational hatred just for DOING his job 😂
> 
> ...


What the fuck is an anti-smark? You’ve used this bullshit term before and I’ve called you out on it. What does that even mean?

You could actually honestly say exactly what you said about Meltzer about Cornette, but you’d disagree with that, no?

Meltzer does not mind his business. He hunts people down on Twitter that don’t like AEW. This is just a downright lie about the guy and reality. There’s no objectivity in anything he says anymore, which is his prerogative, but he and his rag deserve to be called out on it.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> *What the fuck is an anti-smark? You’ve used this bullshit term before and I’ve called you out on it. What does that even mean?*
> 
> You could actually honestly say exactly what you said about Meltzer about Cornette, but you’d disagree with that, no?
> 
> Meltzer does not mind his business. He hunts people down on Twitter that don’t like AEW. This is just a downright lie about the guy and reality. There’s no objectivity in anything he says anymore, which is his prerogative, but he and his rag deserve to be called out on it.


Aren't you supposed to be the "genius" around here? 

How do you NOT know what that term means in 2021?

It's existed as a wrestling term since 2005 at least 😂


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> Aren't you supposed to be the "genius" around here?
> 
> How do you NOT know what that term means in 2021?
> 
> It's existed as a wrestling term since 2005 at least 😂


I’ve seen it around, but it’s usually used by uneducated people and I’ve never heard it used by anyone I know that has actually been around wrestling.

Go on, tell me what it means.

By the way, never called myself a genius, but thanks for thinking that of me. Honestly, I’ve just got common sense and that takes you a long way these days.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I’ve seen it around, but it’s usually used by uneducated people and I’ve never heard it used by anyone I know that has actually been around wrestling.


You're sorely mistaken then. That term accurately describes those who sound 'uneducated,' especially compared to the passionate 'smarks.'



> Go on, tell me what it means.


No, go figure it out yourself. I'm not here to spoon-feed you information (or common sense).

You have the Internet available to use too.



> By the way, never called myself a genius, but thanks for thinking that of me. Honestly, I’ve just got common sense and that takes you a long way these days.


No, I don't think that way about you at all on this section. I was being sarcastic there because that term does not describe you here at all (hence the use of quotation marks).

Edit:

Of course, I wrote "parentheses" when I meant "quotation marks" by mistake since I tend to use both.


----------



## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

In what way is moxley a bigger draw than roman?

Also didnt sasha out draw jericho during the summer


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> You're sorely mistaken then. That term accurately describes those who sound 'uneducated,' especially compared to the passionate 'smarks.'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You’ve justified the use of the term without actually explaining what it is. I’m going to assume that you can’t, _because it’s a bullshit term that only means what you want it to mean in the situation you want it to mean_, anti-smark.

“Genius” was in quotation marks, not parentheses. So if you don’t think I’m a genius, and I’ve never used the word for myself, who are you quoting?



Christopher Near said:


> In what way is moxley a bigger draw than roman?
> 
> Also didnt sasha out draw jericho during the summer


He’s not. And yes, as far as ratings go.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> You’ve justified the use of the term without actually explaining what it is. I’m going to assume that you can’t, _because it’s a bullshit term that only means what you want it to mean in the situation you want it to mean_, anti-smark.


Except that it's NOT a "bullshit term" considering the fact that it's existed for nearly 2 decades already.

You're just too lazy to look it up.

It's either that, or you're probably offended that you sound like one.

I'm leaning more towards the former, but both of these wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> Except that it's NOT a "bullshit term" considering the fact that it's existed for nearly 2 decades already.
> 
> You're just too lazy to look it up.
> 
> ...


People using it doesn’t make it valid. Most people don’t know what they’re talking about. What does it mean? If you can’t answer that, then you’re proving the point, lol.


----------



## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

Christopher Near said:


> Also didnt sasha out draw jericho during the summer



Technically she didn't, at least not in summer. The SD episode with the 200k bump during the Bayley-Sasha rematch match was in autumn, not in summer. Ratings during summer were down on both brands and didn't start to pick up a bit again till the RAW and SD after Summerslam. So, Bayley and Sasha outdrew Jericho in autumn.


Still, Jericho didn't do anything draw-worthy in summer either, so guess he only wins by virtue of AEW having crowds.


----------



## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

I like naito but he definitely isn't a bigger draw than roman


----------



## OwenSES (Jul 19, 2010)

Not enough Randy Orton in the awards. He was easily the best male performer on the WWE roster last year.


----------



## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

Remember they are basing the draw stuff on ticket sales, not ratings. Due to the difference in regulations in Japan and US, NJPW could do a bunch of shows with attendance of 30k and 40k in early 2020 and then did shows with 7k-8k in late 2020, while wwe couldn't do shows with crowds after February, so of course the top NJPW guys are going to draw more tickets based on that. Not the first time it happens. In 93, US attendance rates were so down that most of the top draws where lucha and puro guys simply because attendance was average better in Mexico and Japan.


Still, Ibushi main evented a ton of those big NJPW shows and he didn't make the top (and no way Jericho has drawn bigger crowds for AEW than any of the NJPW guys, again, due to limitations), so the rankings don't make that much sense either.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> People using it doesn’t make it valid. Most people don’t know what they’re talking about. What does it mean? If you can’t answer that, then you’re proving the point, lol.


Except that I'm not "proving" your point at all because you're just making silly assumptions based off nothing, and that's all because you refuse to spend 5 minutes of your free time to look up what that term really means (because you're lazy) :lol

I already stated that I won't spoon-feed you obvious information. Go figure it out for yourself.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I’ve seen it around, but it’s usually used by uneducated people and I’ve never heard it used by anyone I know that has actually been around wrestling.
> 
> Go on, tell me what it means.
> 
> By the way, never called myself a genius, but thanks for thinking that of me. Honestly, I’ve just got common sense and that takes you a long way these days.


That's because no one uses that term apart from smark neckbeards who want their own term to describe the overall majority who go against their niche views.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> It's existed as a wrestling term since 2005 at least 😂


At least, are you for real? I ran a wrestling forum/messageboard for around a decade from the mid 90s.

Smark came in to existence in 2005, antismark has been used for around 2 to 3 years, mainly as a way for smarks to retaliate to people who hate gymnastic wrestling and even then barely anyone actually uses that term. In fact I've only seen 1 or 2 people on here using it, you being one of them.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

the_flock said:


> At least, are you for real? I ran a wrestling forum/messageboard for around a decade from the mid 90s.
> 
> Smark came in to existence in 2005, antismark has been used for around 2 to 3 years, mainly as a way for smarks to retaliate to people who hate gymnastic wrestling.


Wow, well there you have it!

That term is even more older than I thought!


----------



## herbski (May 9, 2013)

Awards like this are why wrestling is what it is now. 

As for anti-smark, there is no such thing as a "smark". So that in and if itself makes "anti-smark" not real either.

You are a either a mark (fan) or you are in the wrestling business. The term smark was invented by fans who think they are more important or smarter than they really are.

I've been on the net following wrestling since the mid-late 90s. Doesn't make me a "smark". It just means I follow wrestling more than the average Joe


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

Some reactions:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365348281862270979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365368757762355204

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365387363405414400

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365369778379116545

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365424584808411136
https://twitter.com/The_MJF/status/1365352724309639173


----------



## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

A couple of problems I have here.

Why is Box Office Draw considered an option to vote for? Shouldn't it just be simple math and stats? 
I get the BTE appeal (I personally enjoyed the 2016-2018 era more) but how did it get more votes than Smackdown? And how is it considered a TV show?
Why are Wrestlemania and TLC on the worst shows list? I thought both PPV's were positive. What did people hate about them?
The top three in the most disgusting promotional tactics, how exactly are each considered a promotional tactic? Maybe change the name of the award
While I believe Ricochet is better than Aleister black, Black should have won Most Underrated because compared to the others, he is barely on TV. 
NXT being on the worst and best TV show doesn't make sense, glad it was second tho. Jim Ross being the 4th best and 4th worst announcer also makes no sense.


----------



## qntntgood (Mar 12, 2010)

How much did khan pay meltzer for this,and dose he have any credibility left.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

qntntgood said:


> How much did khan pay meltzer for this,and dose he have any credibility left.


$80K/Month


----------



## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

shadow_spinner said:


> Why is Box Office Draw considered an option to vote for? Shouldn't it just be simple math and stats?


DIN DING SING. Voting a product preference makes sense, voting consuming patterns that have already been made is stupid.




shadow_spinner said:


> NXT being on the worst and best TV show doesn't make sense, glad it was second tho. Jim Ross being the 4th best and 4th worst announcer also makes no sense.


It is contradictory for sure, but at the same time, it's good to some extent cause it shows the readership ain't an absolute hivemind that agrees on everything.




> The top three in the most disgusting promotional tactics, how exactly are each considered a promotional tactic? Maybe change the name of the award


This category has always been a joke. The most famous award was the 82 one, where Bob Backlund's run as champion won most disgusting tactic, and in Dave's own words, it simply won because they didn't know what to nominate for the category lol.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

DammitChrist said:


> Except that I'm not "proving" your point at all because you're just making silly assumptions based off nothing, and that's all because you refuse to spend 5 minutes of your free time to look up what that term really means (because you're lazy) :lol
> 
> I already stated that I won't spoon-feed you obvious information. Go figure it out for yourself.


No, you are. You’re using a bullshit term. 



the_flock said:


> That's because no one uses that term apart from smark neckbeards who want their own term to describe the overall majority who go against their niche views.


Boom. 



herbski said:


> Awards like this are why wrestling is what it is now.
> 
> As for anti-smark, there is no such thing as a "smark". So that in and if itself makes "anti-smark" not real either.
> 
> ...


Boom II: Badder and Boomier. 



shadow_spinner said:


> A couple of problems I have here.
> 
> Why is Box Office Draw considered an option to vote for? Shouldn't it just be simple math and stats?
> I get the BTE appeal (I personally enjoyed the 2016-2018 era more) but how did it get more votes than Smackdown? And how is it considered a TV show?
> ...


Box office should be a matter of stats. The awards are silly. To see people in the business actually taking them seriously is pretty funny. 



qntntgood said:


> How much did khan pay meltzer for this,and dose he have any credibility left.


I’m not sure he has to pay, but it wouldn’t surprise me, because no — no credibility.


----------



## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

Is Aew really going to incorporate these awards with kayfabe? I bet they will. 

I would say khan being the booker of the year is the most embarrassing thing that they've done, but this is the same organization that has a child and wife murdering wife beater in it's hall of fame, so I guess it's better than that at least


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

How the fuck is TK promoter of the year over Vince McMahon, who made his much larger promotion the most profitable it has ever been? Like, you don’t need to like Vince to make that pretty open and shut case.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

the_flock said:


> That's because no one uses that term apart from smark neckbeards who want their own term to describe the overall majority who go against their niche views.


I don't see how someone bitter such as yourself would think that grouping 'smarks' as having "neckbeards" is somehow fine with you, but yet it's completely unacceptable for someone to use a similar term with"anti-smarks" and grouping them together.

There is no majority here. The whiny anti-smarks are truly the minority, which is why they tend to be drowned out by everyone else who's hyped by the shows on a weekly basis.

I'm a 'smark,' but yet I don't have a "neckbeard" at all; so that automatically makes you wrong right here. You seem to speak from experience though since anti-smarks do seem to possess that unfavorable characteristic.

Admittedly, it's cute how you got offended over that term (especially since that group is in the vocal minority) 



The Wood said:


> No, you are. You’re using a bullshit term.


Sure, and you were already exposed for being full of "bullshit" when someone on here recently pointed out that the term actually DOES exist (since the mid-90s too) 😂


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Happy to see AEW sweep so many awards. Definitely agree with most of the results. I’m especially happy for Tony Khan and Excalibur, both are very deserving. I can also vouch for the Young Bucks and Jim Ross books. Both are terrific reads. But now I’m curious about Andre’s biography. I think I will get that book next!


----------



## Lenny Leonard (Dec 17, 2016)

The Wood said:


> How the fuck is TK promoter of the year over Vince McMahon, who made his much larger promotion the most profitable it has ever been? Like, you don’t need to like Vince to make that pretty open and shut case.


Not like vince got yet another billion dollars for his company


----------



## Strategize (Sep 1, 2016)

Question, has anybody in WWE ever acknowledged these awards at all? Because Bayley won and completely no sold it.

Going off some of these AEW reactions you'd think they'd won the Noble piece prize lol.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Strategize said:


> Question, has anybody in WWE ever acknowledged these awards at all? Because Bayley won and completely no sold it.
> 
> Going off some of these AEW reactions you'd think they'd won the Noble piece prize lol.


The WON Awards are basically like the Emmys, completely worthless awards.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Strategize said:


> Question, has anybody in WWE ever acknowledged these awards at all? Because Bayley won and completely no sold it.
> 
> Going off some of these AEW reactions you'd think they'd won the Noble piece prize lol.


That's because AEW acknowledge things outside of their own company.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> I don't see how someone bitter such as yourself would think that grouping 'smarks' as having "neckbeards" is somehow fine with you, but yet it's completely unacceptable for someone to use a similar term with"anti-smarks" and grouping them together.
> 
> There is no majority here. The whiny anti-smarks are truly the minority, which is why they tend to be drowned out by everyone else who's hyped by the shows on a weekly basis.
> 
> ...


He's not saying every single smark has a neckbeard, it's just an exaggeration to make a point. But when you look at the type of people who are in AEW's crowd each week, can you blame him? They all fit the prototype for the typical fat neckbeard, well most of them do.


----------



## Strategize (Sep 1, 2016)

Erik. said:


> That's because AEW acknowledge things outside of their own company.


They mentioned Sasha winning for some other magazine.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

Strategize said:


> They mentioned Sasha winning for some other magazine.


That's because WWE only acknowledges real awards or achievements.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Anti-smark in logical terms would either just be a mark or someone who hates people that are smart marks? It makes no sense to use it in the way it is being used on here honestly. People that are tired of seeing tiny gymnasts who know nothing of selling or psychology should just be referred to as "wrestling fans." People who like the Bucks, Flipochet, Trashidy, and other personality vacuums can be called either "gymnastics fans" or "flippy fans." Take your pick.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Strategize said:


> Question, has anybody in WWE ever acknowledged these awards at all? Because Bayley won and completely no sold it.
> 
> Going off some of these AEW reactions you'd think they'd won the Noble piece prize lol.


No, they’re professionals. I lol’d at Tony Khan going through and finding out who won booker and promoter in the same year and how many tones. 



Erik. said:


> That's because AEW acknowledge things outside of their own company.


No, it’s because they have a symbiotic relationship with Dave and will take whatever accolades they can get. 



Two Sheds said:


> Anti-smark in logical terms would either just be a mark or someone who hates people that are smart marks? It makes no sense to use it in the way it is being used on here honestly. People that are tired of seeing tiny gymnasts who know nothing of selling or psychology should just be referred to as "wrestling fans." People who like the Bucks, Flipochet, Trashidy, and other personality vacuums can be called either "gymnastics fans" or "flippy fans." Take your pick.


I remember when soot monkeys used to be called out for it.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

This thread is quite entertaining LMFAO.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

Lol AEW Dark and Being the elite got voted as the better shows then Smackdown. No wonder this show will never grow with the fans that they have. 

Also laughed when I read the most disgusting promotional thing and it had like 5 WWE related things like running a show in Saudi, while the Matt Hardy near death experience was like number 6 on the list lol.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Two Sheds said:


> Anti-smark in logical terms would either just be a mark or someone who hates people that are smart marks? It makes no sense to use it in the way it is being used on here honestly.* People that are tired of seeing tiny gymnasts who know nothing of selling or psychology should just be referred to as "wrestling fans." *People who like the Bucks, *Flipochet, Trashidy,* and other personality vacuums can be called either "gymnastics fans" or "flippy fans." Take your pick.


Except that calling them "wrestling fans" isn't even accurate.

That bunch pretty much just sounds like a bunch of whiny contrarians who are ill-tempered about wrestling.

I don't get why you're resorting to making up imaginary names who don't exist since this isn't high school, but I know that it just invalidates your statement even more; especially when actual wrestling fans tend to be more appreciative of the likes of Kenny Omega, Tetsuya Naito, Kazuchika Okada, Pac, Hiromu Takahashi, the Young Bucks, Johnny Gargano, Ricochet, Orange Cassidy, and other workrate guys like them.

It's much better being that type of fan than being a bitter anti-smark tbh. It's funny how some folks are offended by that term too btw :lol



Strategize said:


> They mentioned Sasha winning for some other magazine.


Yep, Sasha Banks got like a 5-second mention of that award; which was then only followed up by having her remain absent on TV for that Smackdown episode.

Sure, that award is somehow much "more" prestigious 😂


----------



## Nightmare_SE (Aug 13, 2004)

Klitschko said:


> Lol AEW Dark and Being the elite got voted as the better shows then Smackdown. No wonder this show will never grow with the fans that they have.
> 
> *Also laughed when I read the most disgusting promotional thing and it had like 5 WWE related things like running a show in Saudi, while the Matt Hardy near death experience was like number 6 on the list lol.*


Yeah that whole list doesn't make any sense. I still remember Bryan Alvarez lying about the Pandemic firings, stating the UFC hadn't released anyone when they already had, nevermind its a stupid comparison anyway since UFC fighters don't make a yearly salary, Sami Zayn got to stay home and get paid while insert fighter stayed home and got shit. Bryan has also stated AEW was testing from the beginning which doesn't make any sense since not even the NBA was doing that since they were getting backlash since there were a shortage of tests available at the start of the pandemic.

The UFC should probably be number 1 since they got so much backlash to the point Disney pulled the plug but honestly MMA shouldn't be on any of these awards, but if it was, PFL would be right behind them at number 2 with the way they handled the pandemic and I probably put ONE FC at 3 for the propaganda they push.



Could someone explain to me what *Promoter of the Year* even is? I really don't get it since there are already Booker and Promotion awards.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Except that calling them "wrestling fans" isn't even accurate.
> 
> That bunch pretty much just sounds like a bunch of whiny contrarians who are ill-tempered about wrestling.
> 
> ...


Calling people who like wrestling, wrestling fans seems pretty accurate to me. Definitions are fairly important to me.

Honestly, the people who think tiny gymnasts who do not understand selling and psychology belong in wrestling companies are the contrarians since it is they who are going against the vast majority of wrestling history and fans. As has been shown repeatedly, the majority of wrestling fans do not watch any current product. They have told us why.

Also, as someone who cares about words and definitions, workrate does not mean what you imply that it does. Simply knowing how to execute a move is only 1/3 of the equation. You must also understand when and most importantly WHY to execute it. A lot of the routine memorizers know nothing of the second two pieces so calling them "workrate guys" is just not accurate at all.

As far as guys you named, You probably did not mean it this way but your order is actually fairly accurate in terms of ability. The first four are solid. I honestly do not know enough about Takahashi to comment one way or the other. The Bucks, Gargano, Flipochet, and Trashidy are each descending into the garbage tier exponentially one after the other though. As far as nicknames go, they are as old as wrestling is, so not sure what your issue is with that specifically. Everyone in wrestling has a nickname. Freddie Blassie at 80+ was still called "Classy" so there is nothing high school about it. Calling OC Garbage Trashidy is no different than Jericho calling Kurt Angle "Kirk Angel."

I am only offended by the term on a logical level. It does not make sense in the way you use it given what Smark means. An Anti-Smark would have to mean "someone against smart marks" which again would either be a naïve mark, or someone who hates smarks, neither of which is your purported definition. I think my definitions and terms make a lot more grammatical sense so I will keep using them. You can keep using "anti-smark" and "workrate" guy in the way you do, but you will just keep causing confusion on here as you have with the older fans.


----------



## NathanMayberry (Oct 11, 2019)

HugoCortez said:


> Remember they are basing the draw stuff on ticket sales, not ratings. Due to the difference in regulations in Japan and US, NJPW could do a bunch of shows with attendance of 30k and 40k in early 2020 and then did shows with 7k-8k in late 2020, while wwe couldn't do shows with crowds after February, so of course the top NJPW guys are going to draw more tickets based on that. Not the first time it happens. In 93, US attendance rates were so down that most of the top draws where lucha and puro guys simply because attendance was average better in Mexico and Japan.
> 
> 
> Still, Ibushi main evented a ton of those big NJPW shows and he didn't make the top (and no way Jericho has drawn bigger crowds for AEW than any of the NJPW guys, again, due to limitations), so the rankings don't make that much sense either.


If we're going by ticket sales then Brock Lesnar is the biggest draw. The Royal Rumble had a bigger attendance than both WKs and Raw and SD had weekly shows for 2 and a half months.


----------



## DerekArmstrong (Dec 4, 2020)

I'm bitter seeing McGregor again in the top box office draw, but that's a fact given the bigger UFC matches took place in the 'new normal.' His fight with Cowboy is actually his least successful ppv headliner since 2015. Imo, Tyson Fury is a very close second.


----------



## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> Except that calling them "wrestling fans" isn't even accurate.
> 
> That bunch pretty much just sounds like a bunch of whiny contrarians who are ill-tempered about wrestling.
> 
> ...


I think people are getting on you for calling them anti smarks because it's not accurate, if anything I'd say they're casual fans, people who don't watch the product often and are drawn to larger than life characters.


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Two Sheds said:


> Anti-smark in logical terms would either just be a mark or someone who hates people that are smart marks? It makes no sense to use it in the way it is being used on here honestly. People that are tired of seeing tiny gymnasts who know nothing of selling or psychology should just be referred to as "wrestling fans." People who like the Bucks, Flipochet, Trashidy, and other personality vacuums can be called either "gymnastics fans" or "flippy fans." Take your pick.


Isn't it used to define someone who intentionally goes against what the smarks enjoyed? So say there's a scenario where marks loved giants, an anti-smark would be someone who goes out of their way to hate giants because the smarks love them. I could be wrong, but that's the impression that I got from it.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

@Klitschko You weren't kidding about this thread. 

Lets not argue over meaningless awards and the definition of wrestling terms, its not that serious


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Lorromire said:


> Isn't it used to define someone who intentionally goes against what the smarks enjoyed? So say there's a scenario where marks loved giants, an anti-smark would be someone who goes out of their way to hate giants because the smarks love them. I could be wrong, but that's the impression that I got from it.


It could be used that way, but I was trying to flesh that out in my point about most wrestling fans not watching any current products. You could call in a broad sense all wrestling fans smarks for decades now. A smark in the strictest sense is someone who knows wrestling is a work, which is just about everyone so it has become a term that is not very useful to me. So calling someone an anti-smark is just not very useful or applicable because people on here can define it to be just about anything that does not meet an easy to decipher definition.

And more to my point, what DO "smarks" love? From the data presented, it is no current products. So an anti-smark is a current fan? It just gets too circular for me. I prefer to come up with new terms for new things.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Klitschko said:


> Lol AEW Dark and Being the elite got voted as the better shows then Smackdown. No wonder this show will never grow with the fans that they have.
> 
> Also laughed when I read the most disgusting promotional thing and it had like 5 WWE related things like running a show in Saudi, while the Matt Hardy near death experience was like number 6 on the list lol.


Did the WWE even run in Saudi Arabia in 2020? Also, why does AEW get away with its shitty Covid protocols and not making their talent employees. WWE does some shitty stuff, but I imagine if AEW ran in the Middle-East, some corners would report it as genuine charity. 



DammitChrist said:


> Except that calling them "wrestling fans" isn't even accurate.
> 
> That bunch pretty much just sounds like a bunch of whiny contrarians who are ill-tempered about wrestling.
> 
> ...


Don’t get upset at people using made-up names when you use gibberish like “anti-smark.”

Why do “wrestling fans” need to like what you like? Why are you gatekeeper? I like my wrestling to make sense and be more than a gymbastics



Nightmare_SE said:


> Yeah that whole list doesn't make any sense. I still remember Bryan Alvarez lying about the Pandemic firings, stating the UFC hadn't released anyone when they already had, nevermind its a stupid comparison anyway since UFC fighters don't make a yearly salary, Sami Zayn got to stay home and get paid while insert fighter stayed home and got shit. Bryan has also stated AEW was testing from the beginning which doesn't make any sense since not even the NBA was doing that since they were getting backlash since there were a shortage of tests available at the start of the pandemic.
> 
> The UFC should probably be number 1 since they got so much backlash to the point Disney pulled the plug but honestly MMA shouldn't be on any of these awards, but if it was, PFL would be right behind them at number 2 with the way they handled the pandemic and I probably put ONE FC at 3 for the propaganda they push.
> 
> ...


Not surprised that Alvarez has been full of shit on these matters. Strictly speaking, I guess promoter of the year and booker of the year doesn’t need to be the same person. Gedo or Daniel Bryan probably should have won booker while Vince probably should have won promoter.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Lorromire said:


> Isn't it used to define someone who intentionally goes against what the smarks enjoyed? So say there's a scenario where marks loved giants, an anti-smark would be someone who goes out of their way to hate giants because the smarks love them. I could be wrong, but that's the impression that I got from it.


Who decides what marks (even smart ones that get on the internet) love? That’s a massive generalisation, at best. What you’re talking about is simply a contrarian. We’ve got a term for that. I can’t think of a single person whose purpose in life is to define something as bullshit as a “smark” and then think the opposite of them. Lol what?


----------



## MoxAsylum (Jan 9, 2020)

Who cares? WON is a joke


----------



## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Who decides what marks (even smart ones that get on the internet) love? That’s a massive generalisation, at best. What you’re talking about is simply a contrarian. We’ve got a term for that. I can’t think of a single person whose purpose in life is to define something as bullshit as a “smark” and then think the opposite of them. Lol what?


That's exactly what it is, a generalisation. Whether someone falls into the smark/anti-smark category is almost 100% biased to one's own opinion of what is/isn't currently popular. I say fuck it and like/hate what you want despite what anyone else thinks, it's wrestling.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Don’t get upset at people using made-up names when you use gibberish like “anti-smark.”


You're kidding me, right?

Those names are actually made up whereas anti-smark actually EXISTS as a real term (which someone just pointed out earlier today that it's over 2 decades old).

Both examples aren't even on the same planet considering the fact that one of them (anti-smark) isn't gibberish at all :lol



> *Why do “wrestling fans” need to like what you like?* Why are you gatekeeper? I like my wrestling to make sense and be more than a gymbastics


I never even claimed such a bold statement. I'm just simply pointing it out to you that anti-smarks are much more unreliable and not really representative of wrestling fans since they tend to be contrarians who just want to irritate other fanbases with their bitterness.

Anyway, you rarely make any sense regarding anything AEW-related; so excuse me if you're not worth getting taken seriously here.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

@The Wood @DammitChrist enough you're both pretty. How about you argue about the awards and not silly wrestling terms?


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood @DammitChrist enough you're both pretty. How about you argue about the awards and not silly wrestling terms?


The awards are about as bullshit as the wrestling terms. You probably have people voting who think “anti-smark” is actually a thing.


----------



## Klitschko (May 24, 2020)

We are all wrestling nerds here. Thats the only wrestling term we need for each other. 

Anyways, Firefromthegods is going to be working overtime tonight it seems with shit happening in here and ratings thread.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

The Wood said:


> The awards are about as bullshit as the wrestling terms. You probably have people voting who think “anti-smark” is actually a thing.


It is a thing. The smart stereotype is a work rate floppy wrestler fan, so the anti smart would be a size guy who loves mic work.

I don't see why that offends you


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> You're kidding me, right?
> 
> Those names are actually made up whereas anti-smark actually EXISTS as a real term (which someone just pointed out earlier today that it's over 2 decades old).
> 
> Both examples aren't even on the same planet considering the fact that one of them (anti-smark) isn't gibberish at all :lol


I will sit here and wait for you to realize he said 2-3 years, not 2-3 decades. Anti-smark has been clearly pointed out as an illogical nonsense term. Come up with a better one,


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> It is a thing. The smart stereotype is a work rate floppy wrestler fan, so the anti smart would be a size guy who loves mic work.
> 
> I don't see why that offends you


No, sorry. I just went through why "anti-smark" and "workrate guy" as currently being used by some on here are nonsense terms. I would welcome someone debating me on those specifics though and not just arguing just to argue.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Firefromthegods said:


> It is a thing. The smart stereotype is a work rate floppy wrestler fan, so the anti smart would be a size guy who loves mic work.
> 
> I don't see why that offends you


Hang on, since when did smarks like floppy shit? They used to call them “spot monkeys.” What eliminates bigger guys who can talk from a smark’s palette? Did they not like The Rock or something?

Lol, it’s a weird little fake term that was conjured on wrestling forums (maybe this one) and has no logical meaning.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Wood said:


> Hang on, since when did smarks like floppy shit? They used to call them “spot monkeys.” What eliminates bigger guys who can talk from a smark’s palette? Did they not like The Rock or something?
> 
> Lol, it’s a weird little fake term that was conjured on wrestling forums (maybe this one) and has no logical meaning.


It is almost like words and definitions matter. Some people want to find a way for spot monkeys to be grandfathered in. This amazing universe some wish to push on the world where the majority of wrestling fans want gymnastics and not wrestling is very easy to dismantle.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

@The Wood and @Two Sheds note the use of the word stereotype. Both terms are just silly generalisations. The idea began when Nash said Eddie was a vanilla midget who couldn't draw. Thats really its origin.

I didn't say it represented a whole fanbase. Its a minority thing. Hence stereotype


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood and @Two Sheds note the use of the word stereotype. Both terms are just silly generalisations. The idea began when Nash said Eddie was a vanilla midget who couldn't draw. Thats really its origin.
> 
> I didn't say it represented a whole fanbase. Its a minority thing. Hence stereotype


Are we talking about "vanilla midget" or "anti-smark?" They are very different words with very different meanings/origins.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Firefromthegods said:


> @The Wood and @Two Sheds note the use of the word stereotype. Both terms are just silly generalisations. The idea began when Nash said Eddie was a vanilla midget who couldn't draw. Thats really its origin.
> 
> I didn't say it represented a whole fanbase. Its a minority thing. Hence stereotype


But Eddie could and did draw. Internet fans do not get to make up terminology for something they don’t understand. Honestly, anyone who uses it kind of exposes themselves as, well, I hope the irony isn’t lost on them.


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Two Sheds said:


> I will sit here and wait for you to realize he said 2-3 years, not 2-3 decades. Anti-smark has been clearly pointed out as an illogical nonsense term. Come up with a better one,


Wow, I didn't realize how wrong he really was then  

Anti-smark has been used as a wrestling term since AT LEAST 2005. I could've sworn he said it was 1995 originally, but I misread that part. 

That term STILL has existed for at least close to 2 decades now (16 years), so no, it's NOT an "illogical nonsense term."

For the record, getting back on topic, the anti-smarks and the WWE fans are mostly the ones throwing a fit over these awards anyway.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Two Sheds said:


> Are we talking about "vanilla midget" or "anti-smark?" They are very different words with very different meanings/origins.


I don't care enough to argue about it further. I feel it's something that's open for interpretation and also something to just ignore. Like how the term buried means nothing anymore


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Wow, I didn't realize how wrong he really was then
> 
> Anti-smark has been used as a wrestling term since AT LEAST 2005. I could've sworn he said it was 1995 originally, but I misread that part.
> 
> ...


Nah, you do not get to deflect like that. The term is not something that most people know. You can swear and imagine all you want, but no one is backing that up here. Tell me again what anti-smark can possibly mean to you other than being against smarks. If you are against smarks, you are against wrestling fans. Come up with some new words. The ones you have are easily dismantled.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> I don't care enough to argue about it further. I feel it's something that's open for interpretation and also something to just ignore. Like how the term buried means nothing anymore


Cool, so nothing means anything. Why even bother to argue anything?


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Two Sheds said:


> Nah, you do not get to deflect like that. The term is not something that most people know. You can swear and imagine all you want, but no one is backing that up here. Tell me again what anti-smark can possibly mean to you other than being against smarks. If you are against smarks, you are against wrestling fans. Come up with some new words. The ones you have are easily dismantled.


Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me with a straight face that anti-smarks are somehow "actual wrestling fans" over the 'smarks' when the latter tends to be MUCH more appreciative of the art of professional wrestling?  

Sure, whatever floats your dismantled boat. Let's pretend that they are any more of a collective fan than the 'smarks' really are here 😂


----------



## Matthew Castillo (Jun 9, 2018)

rbl85 said:


> Some really dumb people here....
> 
> The fans voted not Meltzer


To be fair most WON subscribers pay the for the Observer because they are fans of Dave Meltzer, and their tastes will tend to align with his and I say this as someone that subscribes to WON and largely agrees with this list, though I think Sammy Guevara vs Matt Hardy should have won worst feud.


----------



## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

Lol, I really don’t get why people get so upset over this. It’s based on people who follow Meltzer. If Cornette did the same thing it would be a completely different picture. It’s like getting mad over a reaction video.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Two Sheds said:


> Cool, so nothing means anything. Why even bother to argue anything?


It describes guys who hate fans who use their terminology and think they know what it means. 

Guys like taker or Cornette who hate how fans think they know everything are inherently anti smart mark. If you were to use bury around them they would kick your ass


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Firefromthegods said:


> It describes guys who hate fans who use their terminology and think they know what it means.
> 
> Guys like taker or Cornette who hate how fans think they know everything are inherently anti smart mark. If you were to use bury around them they would kick your ass


OK, so tell me how a term like "anti-smark" can somehow mean Jim Cornette and Undertaker but also pro-flipper. My whole point is that new terms for new positions are needed.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Moxley the King!!

Loving the salt in this thread.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Two Sheds said:


> OK, so tell me how a term like "anti-smark" can somehow mean Jim Cornette and Undertaker but also pro-flipper. My whole point is that new terms for new positions are needed.


Anti could describe guys like that who hate how modern wrestling has evolved that way with psychology taking a back-seat.

The majority of smarts love Kennys high octane stuff as well as the bucks. Guys like meltzer have cultivated this divide. Where you can't like both. 

It doesn't make sense but that's the way wrestling has trended. Its followed the real world which is nonsensical.

Basically its daves fault. Ever since he broke his scale


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Necrolust said:


> Lol, I really don’t get why people get so upset over this. It’s based on people who follow Meltzer. If Cornette did the same thing it would be a completely different picture. It’s like getting mad over a reaction video.


I guarantee you that there wouldn't be this much outrage had these awards been based on Jim Cornette (and his cult followers).


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

DammitChrist said:


> I guarantee you that there wouldn't be this much outrage had these awards been based on Jim Cornette (and his cult followers).


Course there would be. These awards aren't objective. They are subjective.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> I guarantee you that there wouldn't be this much outrage had these awards been based on Jim Cornette (and his cult followers).


Come on the Cornette is old and outdated crowd go nuts over his reviews being posted let alone if he and his fans decided a bunch of "fuck the Balding Bucks and Kenny Olivier" awards


----------



## Necrolust (Mar 4, 2015)

Firefromthegods said:


> Course there would be. These awards aren't objective. They are subjective.


I agree. This is why I don’t listen to either. I just watch what I enjoy. I have too much going on in RL to be upset over what someone else thinks of the things I enjoy or don’t enjoy.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Necrolust said:


> Lol, I really don’t get why people get so upset over this. It’s based on people who follow Meltzer. If Cornette did the same thing it would be a completely different picture. It’s like getting mad over a reaction video.


Who is mad? You’re projecting a lot there.


Firefromthegods said:


> Anti could describe guys like that who hate how modern wrestling has evolved that way with psychology taking a back-seat.
> 
> The majority of smarts love Kennys high octane stuff as well as the bucks. Guys like meltzer have cultivated this divide. Where you can't like both.
> 
> ...


So Cornette and Undertaker are anti-smarks? Just like that, a bunch of weirdos on the internet can change fixed wrestling terminology around to affect and label people actually in the business who know what they are talking about? Nah, that doesn’t sit right.

It’s an invalid term that is easily dismantled and doesn’t have any place in a proper wrestling discussion.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

The Wood said:


> Who is mad? You’re projecting a lot there.
> 
> 
> So Cornette and Undertaker are anti-smarks? Just like that, a bunch of weirdos on the internet can change fixed wrestling terminology around to affect and label people actually in the business who know what they are talking about? Nah, that doesn’t sit right.
> ...


I think we are saying the same thing in different ways


----------



## rich110991 (Aug 27, 2020)

Results are pretty bang on to be fair. We love to see it 😊


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

How was Miz one of the most overpushed people of 2020 when he won like 3 matches all year?

Workrate dork voting fest I presume.


----------



## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

Tony Khan went on twitter to congratulate himself winning promoter of the year and others winning other awards. Imagine if Triple H done the same thing, everyone would rip him to shreds, yet when Tony does it, it's silence. Also multiple AEW talents have acknowledged the awards while the WWE talents who won anything kept quiet (especially Bayley who would have bragged about this by now). Interesting how the "bad guys" seem to not care while the "good guys" seem to be bragging about fake awards.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

It's cringe that AEW making a big deal out of this. It's basically equivalent to the Slammy's given how Meltzer is in the tank for AEW.


----------



## HugoCortez (Mar 7, 2019)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> That's because WWE only acknowledges real awards or achievements.


You mean that award that was basically Justin Barrasso, a dirt sheets columnist, puling names just because, without any voting or searching or committee deciding? Those "awards" got buried by Cornette, iirc, so makes no sense to complain about a list voted by some 1k morons only to then validate one done by one moron (who ain't even respected or seen as a remote source of authority in the biz).







NathanMayberry said:


> If we're going by ticket sales then Brock Lesnar is the biggest draw. The Royal Rumble had a bigger attendance than both WKs and Raw and SD had weekly shows for 2 and a half months.


Royal Rumble had an attendance of 42,715. WK had: Night 1: 40,008 and Night 2: 30,063 (Combined: 70,071). It ain't a big enough of a difference to give wwe enough of an advantage to keep the lead without running shows the rest of the year. Then they did EC in front of 14k (and was brock there to begin with?). The weekly RAWs and SDs they did in Janurary and February did between 500 and 1k average.




NJPW did New Year's Dash, which did 4k; Fantastica Mania, which was a series of 8 small shows that did and average of 1k each; New Beginning in Sapporo, which were two shows that drew 4k and 5k; New beginning in Osaka, which drew 11k; Dominion in Osaka jo Hall, which did 4k; Sengoku Lord in Nagoya, with a crowd of 2k; Summer Struggle in Jigu, with a crowd of 4.7k; the G1 30, wich was 18 shows, with 3 nights averaging 3k, 6 nights avaraging between 2k-2.5k, and the rest averaging 1k each; and then Power struggle, with a crowd of 2.8k. Then you gotta add the weekly small shows, which tend to be around 700.


NJPW wins accumulated numbers because, other than a couple of months in Spring, they were allowed to work shows as long as they reduced the number of crowds in their shows by half, while wwe couldn't do crowds after EC.


I know it's a very archaic and simplistic way of determining "draws" but, hey, it's the same one they've been using since the 70s that determined people like Bruno or Hogan were the top yearly draws. Anyway, voting draws is silly. I can go and say I don't like soemthing anymore, but I cannot go and decide to vote to which place I went to eat the most the past week, because that'd be a lie.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

DammitChrist said:


> I guarantee you that there wouldn't be this much outrage had these awards been based on Jim Cornette (and his cult followers).


Yes there would. Then you and others like you would go on long tirades on how those votes doesn´t matter because Cornette is out of touch and doesn´t understand wrestling. Or some other false narrative.


----------



## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

Anyone notice how WWE stars care more about PWI awards than the Observer awards? When Becky and Bayley both toped the female lists, they acknowledged it on twitter, both bragged and were thankful (mostly Becky). But neither gave a crap when they won female of the year in the Observer awards meanwhile AEW talents act like they won the Oscars.


----------



## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

No one made a bigger fuss of it than WWE/NXT's Pat McAfee, who produced a video to celebrate his Rookie of the Year award.


----------



## shadow_spinner (Dec 6, 2019)

3venflow said:


> No one made a bigger fuss of it than WWE/NXT's Pat McAfee, who produced a video to celebrate his Rookie of the Year award.


McAfee is a fringe superstar tho


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

McAfee is also a massive douche, at least in kayfabe. He’d do this _because_ it is cringe. Think how people defended Omega for being an asshole as being a work...even though it was 18 months before his actual heel turn.


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