# Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - The Big Bang



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

BANG


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

BANGARANG


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

This should be fun


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NEW THREAD :mark: 

Gonna post a real gem here to start this thread off good


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

****1/4 for the previous thread.

Let's see what this one offers. Hopefully a TOY STORY 3 or WALL-E, and not a Brave or a Cars 2. *PIXAR SCALE~*


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## H (Aug 15, 2011)

** for the old thread because LISTS. Climax was not so raging.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Old thread blew, **1/4 for it


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Underrating assholes :side:

Though I actually missed like a 1/3 of the thread anyway, I'm only commenting on what I saw :lol

What was the last LISTOMG someone made?


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

My problem is that it was the same old thing over and over again, every other page consisted of eithier a list, WCW drooling, or Finlay/Regal/Benoit marking. Not that WCW and finlay marking is awesome, we just need to learn to spice it up a bit .

to get back on topic, everyone should watch the Tajiri/Taker match I linked :side:


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

That Tajiri was quite the yahoo :side:


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That was still different than Kurt Angle bashing/Who is Mr. WrestleMania/Triple H bashing/LIST over and over again in threads prior to the last one. Jesus fucking Christ :lmao

Oh, and the previous thread started the rise of the cult of BAD NEWS BARRETT. So points for that. :barrett

We should start doing the PIXAR SCALE to each match. Too bad that 2/3 of Pixar stuff is excellent but I can work with it. That Tajiri/Taker match was pretty good, gets a decent little Monsters University rank on the Pixar Scale.


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## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

TAJIRI. Good little match.

At least the old thread ended on a high note: VOLK HAN.



ATF said:


> What was the last LISTOMG someone made?


I made a LIST where I listed Andre/Hogan as the Top 10 WM match ever. Yes, better than Steamboat/Savage.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You know what? I'm actually going to legit adapt the Pixar Scale for every single of my reviews now. The Cal Scale became this thread's biggest hit (sort of :lol) but PIXAR is still fucking PIXAR. Can't go wrong with that. So with that in mind:



> DUD = DREAMWORKS... except How To Train Your Dragon, Shrek, Kung Fu Panda and Madagascar
> 1/4* to * = Cars 2
> *1/4 to ** = Brave
> **1/4 = Cars
> ...


INSERT BUZZ LIGHTYEAR SMILEY HERE.

EDIT: So, I gave that Taker/Tajiri match a *** rating... that means it's a decent little MONSTERS INC. on the Pixar Scale! It's fitting, because the Undertaker is scary and... you know... BOO.


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Chismo said:


> I made a LIST where I listed Andre/Hogan as the Top 10 WM match ever. Yes, better than Steamboat/Savage.


Now that's what I'm talkin' bout


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Toy story 2 at *****? :ti

its 1 or 3 bro


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

The Incredibles is ***********


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

:kobe 

Monsters Inc at *** is a debauchery


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Toy story 2 at *****? :ti
> 
> its 1 or 3 bro


NOPE.

Toy Story 2 is fucking *perfection*. 1 is incredible and 3 is incredible too, but 2 has it ALL. High laughs, high cries, senseful story, continues the 1st's plot perfectly, introduces great and memorable new characters, it has a bit of dark in it... DAMN.

And the only reason why every other movie below the Toy Stories is given those ratings is simply because of the fucking scale issues. Monsters Inc. is an easy ****-****1/4 as far as I'm concerned, but I had to have it at *** unfortunely because imo it's inferior to all those others.

Anyway, need a PPV to review w/the PIXAR SCALE.

EDIT: If I had the nerve to allow myself getting hatemail, I'd get a lot right now for not having Up in the top 5 :lol


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Volk Han vs Kiyoshi Tamura (RINGS 09.26.1997)*



The other two matches they had, i posted in the last thread. 

Back to real wrestling FFS lol.


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually come to think of it I'm in one of those "don't really give into much time in this" periods, so I won't review any PPV now, soon enough I will, which do you recommend?


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Vengeance 05


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## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cool choice, thanks; love me some Tista/Trips Cell wars. (Y)


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Old thread was not bad, but consider what the standards are. If that old thread was two stars, then that must make every other thread in this forum below a DUD :lol. Just like these constant Booker T vs. Heidenreich and Shelton Benjamin vs. Snitsky matches that I've been witnessing in 2005. And they complain about Sheamus vs. Christian...


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Their are plenty of quality threads in this forum, just not in the WWE section :lmao

Vengeance 05 :mark:


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Clique said:


> Yes, the title continues to play off the previous thread's PPV theme/sexual innuendo, but "The Big Bang" was also going to be the name of WCW's next PPV before they got bought out by McMahon. A little trivia for you.


Why can't ROH be a little more original? Stealing from WCW is the worst.


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## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Gonna be active in this thread from the beginning this time :mark: :mark: Can't wait to start rating matches on the CAL SCALE :banderas


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

idk if anybody's ever brought this up but the CAL SCALE is flawed if you're doing a whole year or comparing ppvs because you have to account for # of matches on a card. Matches need to be weighted!!! /nitpicking


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Cal Scale is inherently flawed because it's made by a guy that doesn't know the difference between Keiji Mutoh and The Great Muta.

EDIT: Marty Jannetty vs. Kurt Angle was good, but it didn't hold up. Not because of Kurt Angle, but because Marty Jannetty didn't sell very well.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Smitty System is something I have devised which really is simple, you basically find out the average score for a show, for example, here are my ratings for WM 30 

Bryan/HHH: ****1/2 
Shield/NAO: **
Battle royal: ***1/4 
Wyatt/Cena: ****
Taker/Lesnar: ***
Divas: DUD 
Bryan/Orton/Batista: ****1/4 

Ok so we have a total of 21 stars out of a possible amount of 35. So 21 divided by 35 is 0.6 which means on the smitty system WM 30 would have a rating of 0.6 

IDK if that makes any sense tbh


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## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

On the topic of Mil (who I enjoy very much), I think what he and Tiger Mask were doing weren't really comparable. Mil takes it to the mat and is a legitimate heavyweight. TM brought a new sense of spectacle beyond the mask. And while Kajiwara may have been in part inspired by Mil, the character he created and Sayama himself are pretty far removed from Mil's style and persona.

I think it was that spectacle and success of the feud that sparked imagination in audiences and the search for new "over-sized" characters in the years to come, including looking to manga as inspiration for characters (Liger).


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Everyone watch Bryan/Ryback matches.


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well... this thread is off to an incredibly shitty start. :lol Too many scales. Just rate matches and move on with it. Naw I'm sayin?


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Cal Scale is inherently flawed because it's made by a guy that doesn't know the difference between Keiji Mutoh and The Great Muta.
> 
> EDIT: Marty Jannetty vs. Kurt Angle was good, but it didn't hold up. Not because of Kurt Angle, but because Marty Jannetty didn't sell very well.


Just watched that SD match recently and absolutely loved it. LOVED IT. I feel Jannetty's selling was certainly good enough for the match they were going for.



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> The Smitty System is something I have devised which really is simple, you basically find out the average score for a show, for example, here are my ratings for WM 30
> 
> Bryan/HHH: ****1/2
> Shield/NAO: **
> ...



That makes sense, but your Smitty System just has the opposite problem Cal's does. Cal's system rewards shows with more matches, yours is biased towards shows with less matches. For instance, on your system I think IYH Canadian Stampede would have to be the best PPV ever, as it has 4 matches that are all worthy of ****+ ratings. Now is that show better than Beach Blast 1992, Spring Stampede 1994, Summerslam 2002, or WM 19? I don't think so personally. 1 easily skippable Divas match on a show can tank the rating of an otherwise great show. You should also go out atleast 2 decimal points to hundredths, as tenths is not enough. You have a good idea, I just don't know if it's possible to reliably quantify the quality of a show. Maybe if you could do a weighted average for shows with less than 5 matches, you might be on to something.


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## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I didn't think about that, I think in any system or scale matches would have to be weighted in order to quantify reliable and fair outcomes, I just dont really know how to do it exactly


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## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Big Bang, you say?






OK, now throw matches at me! I NEED MOAR WRASSLIN'!


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> The Smitty System is something I have devised which really is simple, you basically find out the average score for a show, for example, here are my ratings for WM 30
> 
> Bryan/HHH: ****1/2
> Shield/NAO: **
> ...


> CAL SCALE


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## yahaira (May 27, 2014)

big bang:gun:


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## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I think thumps up or thumps down is a good enough scale


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> idk if anybody's ever brought this up but the CAL SCALE is flawed if you're doing a whole year or comparing ppvs because you have to account for # of matches on a card. Matches need to be weighted!!! /nitpicking


Yeah I've pointed that out. A three match show with every match being ****1/2 would be 21. A 22 match show with one ***1/2 match and 18 **1/4 matches would get a highe rating. I brought this up and Cal said like ''sTFU!!!!!'' or something. flawed ass ginger bastard scale


Should use my system. Come up with a sentence that describes the PPV and almost make sure it includes a word like rubbish, garbage, or trash. Also watch the PPV in forty minute periods over three months.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A very big "thumps up" needs to go to Edge & Christian vs. Shelton Benjamin & Chris Jericho from the 3/21/05 edition of RAW. Might be my second favorite match so far in this 2005 project and the best E&C reunion match. Shelton's feats of athleticism are unbelievable even to his standards here and Chris Jericho plays both a really good FIP and an even better hot tag. Christian also bumps really really well here for both guys and the teamwork that they exhibited at the very end led to a very satisfactory ending. Go watch this!

Chris Benoit vs. Triple H from the 3/14/05 edition of RAW is also worth a watch, although they've had a couple better matches together than this. Benoit's offense and defense is so on point here and does a great job of hiding what looked like apathy from Triple H. Ending really surprised me because I could have sworn that Benoit always beat HHH. Lots of great close calls and the pace for the most part is very good. Another gem from 2005.


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyone watch Benoit/Edge Tables match? I believe it's the rematch to their backlash encounter (which was out-fucking-standing). The Marston scale is the best, basically you give a match score out of five and rest on the PPV, then add them all together for a total. Wallah.


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## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit vs Triple H "Pick Your Poison" is badass stuff. I like how Lawler points out that Benoit is fighting as if it was for the World Title. Pretty much defines his work in every match.

Edge vs Benoit in a tables match is good too but they've had better matches including Backlash, the night after Wrestlemania 21 and their last match on Smackdown in June 2007.

CAL SCALE is automatically flawed because it's made by a ginger and gingers are flawed by nature unless they are Sheamus. 

Raw was pretty meh. Orton & Batista vs Rhodes Bros was enjoyable although I wonder where they are going with the Cody/Goldust team because they've been directionless and pretty much jobbers ever since losing the tag titles. At least give the blowoff in a singles PPV match.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ooooh. The Big Bang. Great selection. The PPV that never got to be.


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wallah as in "Wallah, Magic" not the other.


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## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Two elaborate thoughts of mine:

This may be the wrong place but I will post these thoughts here anyway. WWE may have decimated their not so long ago promising tag division, but what is curious to me is that they right now could have a killer midcard without even having to put a whole lot of product investment into said "division", but instead they have a mess. I appreciate their effort in making the IC title seem more vital with varying contending systems, but the personell right now sucks and could be easily fixed.

Sandow in WWE's segment driven product has the ability with his wit, delivery/charisma and ability to get through to the audience on the stick to drive a division when given something solid to work with (see Sandow's little feud with Cody with the briefcase for that or Sandow's cash in). Mark Henry co given his longevity and remaining awesome power and size, he could very easily without much product investment slip right back to being a threat by continuing his best career work by opening up the HOP again. (besides, if I recall the man told Rosenberg he signed a three year deal which still has two years on it). This Cesaro situation clearly isn't going as projected by creative since the confused audience just isn't buying heel Cesaro. If Ziggler was given some better showings, clearly the fans are willing to buy into him and given his look/ dramatic selling penchant easily could be a sympathetic face even without a mike. Hell, you have Zayn killing it in NXT who could come right in and fit well in the mid ranks as an introductory measure. These changes don't take much product investment, and if the titles were combined and everyone was under one midcard umbrella, you could really have a supplement to the world title scene there outside of soley relying on the Shield to dominate the non title scene section of the product. I don't know why but these thoughts have become more evident to me in recent weeks.

A more immediate note though, I take it the sledgehammer use is a foreshadowing/an upcoming facet of the story Shield/Evolution II is going to be telling in ring. I don't think there will be much middle ground come Sunday, I think we either get a fantastic war or a complete clusterfuck. I say this, because the story behind this match is scaring me. Elimination stipulation combined with WWE's history of showcasing Reigns makes me fear that he may solo Evolution which honestly I think would be too much of a feat and one that wouldn't look good because for whatever reason Reigns' in ring stamina is extremely shaky. In fact, to maximize both the business and wrestling side of the potential matchup, I would save heavy Reigns/HHH interaction for Summerslam. The honing in on the sledge hammer and this talk of one team being eviscerated leads me to think that this will be the match to end this. The "epic" setup could make this a fantastic war akin to Shield/Wyatts without the magic/freshness/equal factor, but at the same time, HHH in "epic" matchups always seems to either hit a home run or strike out swinging. Given the remarkable consistency of the Shield and given faith in Orton to deliver though, perhaps these are overblown fears. If I were to book this one, I would actually have Reigns taken out early and use this non major ppv but still big match opportunity to showcase Seth and in particular Dean, who I think is one bigtime showing away from really building individual rapport with fans. I would have Dean and HHH as finalists with HHH clawing out a win with a sledgehammer or whatnot. I might be in minority there but that is just me.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They're not going to fix it. Short-term booking is too pleasurable to them to even remotely try and do anything to improve. Once they killed the ultra hot Rhodes Bros momentum, there's no point in caring anymore.


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## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly only recall two times in WWE history where both the US and IC title were simultaneously relevant. One was when the US title was initially brought back and Orton was IC champ, and the other time was in late 2011 when Cody was champ and the awesome Ryder/Ziggler feud was going on.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Best US title match of the 2000-2009 decade?

I don't think there were any "classics" but those were some pretty good matches
Finlay vs Regal GAB 2006
Shelton Benjamin vs Hurricane Helms on SD late 2008
Benoit vs Orlando Jordan GAB 2005


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Eddie vs Benoit vs Rhyno vs Tajri for the US title is my favorite F4Way match ever. I'd even have it above the BL 07 F4WAY.


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Eddie vs Benoit vs Rhyno vs Tajri for the US title is my favorite F4Way match ever. I'd even have it above the *BL 07 F4WAY.*


I love that match so much and if you give a date or ppv for that other 4-way I'll go watch it


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

HBK vs Cena vs Orton vs Edge


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## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

subbed.


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## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

IYH: Final Four surely has to be the greatest 4 way ever, right?


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> HBK vs Cena vs Orton vs Edge


Sorry, I meant I loved that match. I don't know when the Tajiri etc took place.



Robbie said:


> IYH: Final Four surely has to be the greatest 4 way ever, right?


I didn't like it that much. BL 07 takes it for me.


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## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

How do you guys remember all these matches? Most of the time I have to look stuff up lol.


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## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

bigbuxxx said:


> I didn't like it that much. BL 07 takes it for me.


In the same boat. Backlash 2007 is easily the greatest 4-way in WWE history. One of the few instances of the match actually working.



> I love that match so much and if you give a date or ppv for that other 4-way I'll go watch it


SummerSlam 2003. I always thought it was OK, but it never really amazed me. It's only like 11 minutes long, and I think it suffers for it.


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I don't remember the 4 way from Backlash being that amazing, but it has been awhile since I have watched that match.



> IYH: Final Four surely has to be the greatest 4 way ever, right?


This match :banderas


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Leon Knuckles said:


> How do you guys remember all these matches? Most of the time I have to look stuff up lol.


I remember the ones I rate the highest and what I think of the ones that get pimped a lot. Not that hard really. Also, I have 60+ 5* matches .


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## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

About to pop in No Mercy 05, intrigued to see how this show goes, haven't watched it in quite a bit.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Final Four four way demolishes any other "fatal four way" match ever spawned by WWE.


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## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The SummerSlam Fatal Fourway was really good. Wouldn't call it more than that. Around ***1/2+.


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Going to watch Super J Cup 1994 later. :mark:


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For those of us who know what our favorite Chris Benoit match is... :mark:


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## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> For those of us who know what our favorite Chris Benoit match is... :mark:


I was going to dig out the Benoit DVD just to watch that match, but i wanna see the Liger/Sasuke match too, plus Samurai/Sasuke.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The beauty of youtube. Whole show is on it. idk why I still haven't bought it yet, but a different subject for a different time. Now I think I want to put this on in a bit to relive it. Don't recall ***** Casas' match too well atm and I've been wanting to cram some of his stuff lately. Seems a decent place to start.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Robbie said:


> IYH: Final Four surely has to be the greatest 4 way ever, right?


Yeah. Big Show/Cody/McIntyre/Ziggler is second.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wonder how many will say they've never seen it.


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I loved the high pace of the Summerslam F4Way, never a dull moment and everyone had a role suitable to their style in the match, Eddie as the sly champion, Rhyno as the brute, Tajri as the agile monk and Benoit as the valiant warrior (2 heels, 2 babyfaces). Though I completely forgot about Final Four, I'd probably have that marginally above this one and as the best. Vader puts on the performance of his life and single handedly made the match great.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie was more tweener then, but he cheats all the time so it really doesn't matter. EDDIE. That time was stellar b/c Eddie got so massively over in WWE at that point. While he was always someone who got great heat in the past, the fans just started to go nuts for the guy seemingly out of nowhere.

I dig that match a ton too, for the record.


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

And It was in a time where heels and faces were receiving corresponding reactions, thus deeming it more impressive that Eddie was able to sway the crowd in his favor as a* bad guy.* Unlike today where heels and faces are evenly cheered on an overall scale.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

By this logic Eddie has never been a babyface the moment he started the lie, cheating, and stealing character.


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## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

No waaaaay Final Four is Vader's best performance.


edit - how long was Eddie a heel between turning on Tajiri and...turning babyface....in 2003? Wait, did he turn on Tajiri or did Tajiri turn on him? Tajiri had Rey matches so he was a heel somewhere around then as well. Was there even a turning-on being done, somewhere on during that time, on?


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## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

etrbaby said:


> Best US title match of the 2000-2009 decade?
> 
> I don't think there were any "classics" but those were some pretty good matches
> Finlay vs Regal GAB 2006
> ...


Benoit vs. Eddie from Vengeance '03 and Eddie/Big Show from No Mercy '03 are really the only two popping in my head right now... U.S. Title matches haven't exactly produced the same quality as IC Title matches over the years.



Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah. Big Show/Cody/McIntyre/Ziggler is second.


Big Show VERSUS THE WORLD :mark:


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## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

I got the Blu-Ray and I'm happy to report everything was kept intact including the botches and both the Kid Rock and Eminem songs!

Still amazed at just how good Bryan Vs. Helmsley was.



> edit - how long was Eddie a heel between turning on Tajiri and...turning babyface....in 2003? Wait, did he turn on Tajiri or did Tajiri turn on him? Tajiri had Rey matches so he was a heel somewhere around then as well. Was there even a turning-on being done, somewhere on during that time, on?


Chavo got hurt so Eddie asked Tajiri to be his partner. They won the tag team titles from Benjamin & Haas at Judgment Day 2003 then dropped them back to them in a rematch on Smackdown two months later. After the match, Guerrero dropped Tajiri (yes, pun intended.) after he damaged his lower rider. Tajiri turned heel himself a few months after that.

- Vic


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

World's Greatest Tag Team vs Tajri & Eddie ladder is so much fun.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> No waaaaay Final Four is Vader's best performance.
> 
> 
> edit - how long was Eddie a heel between turning on Tajiri and...turning babyface....in 2003? Wait, did he turn on Tajiri or did Tajiri turn on him? Tajiri had Rey matches so he was a heel somewhere around then as well. Was there even a turning-on being done, somewhere on during that time, on?


Like about a week? It started off as a "what the hell Eddie, omg no" heel turn. Then it morphed into Eddie breaking back out as a singles guy cheating and pissing off anyone, heel or face, as long as he was successful. He was over at Vengeance splitting the crowd & by the time SummerSlam hit he was already pretty much loved by the audience. He was just mad that Tajiri dinged up his ride and they used that to split the team. Nothing more. 

Tajiri went heel in the Fall after his competition w/Mysterio made him grow MAD. Funny enough, they kind of redid the same angle w/Spike in 2004. When it works, it works. And it worked both times. :hb for misery towards Mysterio in kayfabe. It breeds success.


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## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho in 2003 finished. It was a pretty decent year for him. Nothing too good, nothing too bad. 2004 should be the same without a GOAT match.

PPV matches from best to worst (every but the first two are 3 stars or lower):

1. vs. Shawn Michaels (WWE Wrestlemania XIX, 30.03.03, Singles) 
2. & Christian & Mark Henry & Randy Orton & Scott Steiner vs. Booker T & Bubba Ray Dudley & D-Von Dudley & Rob Van Dam & Shawn Michaels (WWE Survivor Series, 16.11.03, Elimination Tag) 
3. vs. Goldberg (WWE Bad Blood, 15.06.03, Singles)
4. & Christian vs. Lita & Trish Stratus (WWE Armageddon, 14.12.03, Tag Team) 
5. vs. Triple H vs. Goldberg vs. Kevin Nash vs. Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels (WWE SummerSlam, 24.08.03, Elimination Chamber, WWE World Heavyweight Championship) 
6. vs. Christian vs. Rob Van Dam (WWE Unforgiven, 21.09.03, Triple Threat, WWE Intercontinental Championship) 
7. vs. Jeff Hardy (WWE No Way Out, 23.02.03, Singles) 
8. vs. Christian vs. Booker T vs. Goldust vs. Kane vs. Lance Storm vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Test vs. Val Venis (WWE Judgment Day, 18.05.03, 9-man Battle Royale, WWE Intercontinental Championship)
9. & Ric Flair & Triple H vs. Booker T & Kevin Nash & Shawn Michaels (WWE Backlash, 27.04.03, Six-man Tag)


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> IYH: Final Four surely has to be the greatest 4 way ever, right?


Oh absolutely. That Backlash match is really good as well but nothing touches the Final Four match. 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> For those of us who know what our favorite Chris Benoit match is... :mark:


I actually just watched this a few days ago on the Benoit set. Still absolutely flawless. I think I still slightly prefer the BOSJ 1996 match he had with Black Tiger for Benoits best match, but this one is damn close.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wonder how many will say they've never seen it.


I haven't :side: 


Etrbaby: my favorite US title matches are Benoit/Eddie Vengeance 2003 and Orton/Benoit 1/13/06 SD (Final match in the Best of 7 Series for the US title). Can't go wrong with either.


Has anyone else seen the January 1987 Flair/Windham match from Flair: the Ultimate Collection set? I finally got around to watching this and was totally blown away. Windham was AWESOME. People talk about Flair and Steamboat going full bore in their matches, but Windham was just a total work horse in this one. Probably my single favorite performance of his that I've seen. They work to a 30 minute draw and they might have spent a total of 3-5 minutes of that working holds, the rest is them just working like crazy trying to tire the other guy out. Phenomenal match


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## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wolverine, I've meaning to ask on this- what'd you think of Rey/JBL from JD 2006? I know you love JBL/Eddie from 2 years prior and this kinda had some reminiscence to that imo. I btw loved it.


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## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Wolverine, I've meaning to ask on this- what'd you think of Rey/JBL from JD 2006? I know you love JBL/Eddie from 2 years prior and this kinda had some reminiscence to that imo. I btw loved it.



You know I actually haven't gotten around to watching any of the Rey/JBL matches, only one I saw was WM 25 which was essentially a squash. I'll watch them when I get home from work today and let you know what I think.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JBL vs Mysterio is nothing like JBL vs Eddie from Judgment Day 2004. Not like that's a negative. Completely different matches. Both great. Granted the Eddie one is one of the best in company history, but hey, since when is that criteria supposed to be easy to top?

and CJack watch the SD 2011 four way when you can too:





 _(part two is the first in the related videos)_

and Flair vs Windham slays. If they didn't put the COTC 2/3 falls vs Steamboat, that would be far and away my favorite match on the original Flair set. Pacing is absurd.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Has anyone else seen the January 1987 Flair/Windham match from Flair: the Ultimate Collection set? I finally got around to watching this and was totally blown away. Windham was AWESOME. People talk about Flair and Steamboat going full bore in their matches, but Windham was just a total work horse in this one. Probably my single favorite performance of his that I've seen. They work to a 30 minute draw and they might have spent a total of 3-5 minutes of that working holds, the rest is them just working like crazy trying to tire the other guy out. Phenomenal match



Did you see their other matches? I've got the January '87 match as Windham's fourth best match of his career, and third best singles.


1. 86-02-14 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (CWF)
2. 87-04-11 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)
3. 92-05-17 Dangerous Alliance (Anderson/Eaton/Austin/Zbyszko/Rude) Vs Sting's Squadron (Sting/Koloff/Rhodes/Steamboat/Windham) (WCW)
4. 87-01-20 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (NWA)

The Flair/Windham feud was a goldmine.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I might be the only person who prefers both 87 Flair/Windham matches over the BOTB match. Not that I dislike BOTB (it ruled), but the transitions and exchanges in the other two matches were the smoothest that I've ever seen. No lull spots whatsoever. Near perfection.

WM 21 is such a damn mixed bag. MITB I is MOTN and Taker/Orton dropped a bit, but it was still great. Angle/Shawn was not that good, opener was weak, and both title matches sucked. Probably around the 7-8 range for all-time Manias.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive still gotta watch that Flair/Windham 01/87 match.  I even uploaded it on here lol, think i will once i've finished up with the J-Cup.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Stop what you're doing guys and watch this hidden gem.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Kinda late to the discussion but the Fourway match between Finlay, Matt Hardy, The Miz, and John Morrison from WWECW 7/22/08 is so much fucking fun. Not on the level of the other great Fatal Fourway matches mentioned but certainly an underrated gem nonetheless.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Re-watched Evolution/Shield ahead of this Sunday's rematch and it held up great. The first half of the match could've been better but it wasn't bad by any means. Unspectacular yet solid is how I'd describe it. It's gonna drop down a couple places on my MOTY list because I preferred Bryan/Wyatt and Bryan/Hunter on recent re-watches of those bouts. That's more of a credit to those matches than a criticism of this one though. Awesome stuff, hopefully they can go one better at Payback.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Lightning Kid vs Jerry Lynn (PWA 04.18.1991 No DQ Match)*

_Joined In Progress._



Think Waltman was 18 at this time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Stop what you're doing guys and watch this hidden gem.


This better be the Paul London is busted open and it made the match like "woah" as it went down. aka > No Mercy 2004.



Guy LeDouche said:


> Kinda late to the discussion but the Fourway match between Finlay, Matt Hardy, The Miz, and John Morrison from WWECW 7/22/08 is so much fucking fun. Not on the level of the other great Fatal Fourway matches mentioned but certainly an underrated gem nonetheless.


Still remember it to this day. Must mean it's quality. Or I was happy to see Matt Hardy moved to ECW for success and knew a match vs Mark Henry was on the horizon.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Lots of early 2005 stuff are a blur for me (specially Smackdown) but the mention of blood quickly made me remember that London/Kidman match.

No Mercy 2005 was also mentioned a few pages back, aptly at the same time as the discussion for fatal four ways. Fitting that it has the awesome four way for the US Title on an excellent show almost top to bottom. I even enjoyed Holly vs Kennedy from that show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Austin/Rock (Backlash 1999), forgot how good of a brawl this was. Amongst some other shit i want to watch, im trying to watch lots of Austin matches, from WCW and WWF.

Wish Austin/Savage could have had a program together. 

I do need to see some of the Austin/Steamboat stuff soon too.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

WM15 is trash but BL redeemed the horrible start (match quality) to an eventually awesome rivalry.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Clash of the Champions VII

_Semi-Finals Match:_
*The Dynamic Dudes vs. The Fabulous Freebirds (Hayes and Garvin) w/Terry Gordy*

This didn’t get much time at all but it was fun enough. The Dudes are still hilarious and they were passable generic faces that got a really good crowd reaction. They didn’t try to do much but it was a fun enough match.
****


*Ranger Ross vs. The Terrorist*

It’s probably worth nothing that this took place on an army base so Ross was loved and the Terrorist had massive heat. Naturally the Terrorist attacked Ross from behind but then quickly got his ass kicked because AMERICA. Also Ross’s offense looks terrible.
*DUD*



*George South and Cougar Jay vs. The Ding Dongs*

Everything about this was annoying. I don’t know who thought this would be a good idea to have on TV but it didn’t work. The crowd didn’t seem too happy with this either.
*DUD*


_Semi-Finals_
*The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette vs. The Samoan Swat Team w/Paul E. Dangerously *

Like the other Semi-Finals match this was quick paced and fun to watch. It went a little longer and we sort of had the isolation segment from the SST but nothing that lasted for too long. Nothing worth going out of the way to see but for a TV match it as fun enough.
***½ *



*Terry Gordy vs. Steve Williams *

This had the potential to be great and what we got was pretty fun but 6 minutes and a double count out was kind of a let down. Still for 6 minutes it was a good and I liked the feeling of seeing these two guys brawling. I would be happy to see another match between them. 
***1/4*



*Mike Justice vs. Norman The Lunatic w/Teddy Long*

SQUASH. It was less than a minute long and Justice had no offense. Norman looked like a lunatic and acted like one post and pre match but he didn’t really wrestle like one either. 
*¼** 



*The Varsity Club (Rotunda and Sullivan) vs. The Steiner Brothers *

I feel like the Steiners have been feuding with the Varsity Club forever. That being said they finally captured the intensity that you would expect of such a long feud. This match felt like it was constantly on the brink of going out of control. Scott Steiner got isolated and he had a nasty welt on his back from being thrown into the announce table. The Varsity Club went right after the obvious injury and they didn’t let up it. I was actually expecting this to end in a double DQ but they didn’t go that route and while the ending was chaotic I liked it a lot and it made me want to see another match from these guys.
*****



_Television Championship Match_
*Wild Bill Irwin vs. Sting(c)*

Irwin has a whip. He beat up Sting for 3 minutes, tried to get his whip, got hit with a Stinger Splash, and lost. It was a pretty unimpressive match for 3 or 4 minutes I can’t complain too much.
***



_Tournament Finals_
*The Freebirds (Hayes and Garvin) w/Terry Gordy vs. The Midnight Express w/Jim Cornette*

I’m not sure what Hayes and Garvin said to the armed service guys in the crowd but they said something that got them a ton of heat. Anyway this was good, but a bit rushed. Eaton takes a great beating early on but he wasn’t really isolated long enough to build up to a big tag. Still the pacing was a lot of fun to watch and there were some nice bumps that Eaton took. I would have liked to see a longer match from these teams but this was still pretty solid.
***¾ *



*Ricky Steamboat vs. Terry Funk*

I can see the build up for the Funk/Flair match in this one. Funk just seems to bring out the worst in people (I mean that in a good way). I’ve never seen Steamboat so aggressive as he was here and I’ve never really felt that he hated his opponent but in this match I did. Funk’s character was also pretty awesome as he gets the shit kicked out of him but doesn’t care and keeps fighting. While he wasn’t in the full lunatic mode that he would enter in the future (I grew up remembering the middle aged and crazy Funk) you could see the signs of that character here and he did come across as crazy. I’m not normally a fan of DQ endings but this worked since it just showed that Funk gave no shits about anything. Very cool match that I didn’t know had ever happened until I saw the description on the WWE Network.
****½ *​

I can’t say this was a very good show. The main event was cool but everything else was either very average or bad.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Now watching Sting/Vader (Great American Bash 1992), before moving along to their Starrcade match. 

Fucking LOVE this series.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Has anyone else seen the January 1987 Flair/Windham match from Flair: the Ultimate Collection set? I finally got around to watching this and was totally blown away. Windham was AWESOME. People talk about Flair and Steamboat going full bore in their matches, but Windham was just a total work horse in this one. Probably my single favorite performance of his that I've seen. They work to a 30 minute draw and they might have spent a total of 3-5 minutes of that working holds, the rest is them just working like crazy trying to tire the other guy out. Phenomenal match


It's a total five star match... And it's not even the best one of their series! Dusty FAT FUCK Rhodes on commentary is tugboats of lulz. WHAT! A DUDE! :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> JBL vs Mysterio is nothing like JBL vs Eddie from Judgment Day 2004. Not like that's a negative. Completely different matches. Both great. Granted the Eddie one is one of the best in company history, but hey, since when is that criteria supposed to be easy to top?
> 
> and CJack watch the SD 2011 four way when you can too:
> 
> ...



I will def check that SD 4 way out as soon as I'm finished with these 2 JBL/Rey matches I'm watching. Sounds awesome on paper.



Rah said:


> Did you see their other matches? I've got the January '87 match as Windham's fourth best match of his career, and third best singles.
> 
> 
> 1. 86-02-14 Barry Windham Vs Ric Flair (CWF)
> ...


I've seen BotB 1986 but haven't gotten around to the 4-11-87 match. Right now, I'm almost leaning to that 1-20-87 as being superior to BotB, but that could easily just be recency effect. I can say for certain that on first watch BotB didn't give me the same feeling that 1/20 match did. I was just thinking in my head the entire time "god damn, Barry Windham looks good. He's a fucking MAN." Unrelated note: has anyone else seen the first interactions between Barry and Flair down in Florida? They showed it on the Legends Roundtable on Flair that's up on the Network. It's REALLY cool. They cut away to this tall, bean pole, lanky ass kid in the ring with Flair. If you squint your eyes, you can JUUUUUSST make out that this is young Barry. Well anyways, he's challenging Ric to a legit wrestling competition, traditional style with one man down and one up. Whenever Barry is down, Flair can't get him over, and whenever Flair is down, Barry rides the hell out of him and gets him on his back. It's like a 5 minute clip or so but I just thought it was extremely fun to watch. What a great way to help get a young guy over. 



Chismo said:


> It's a total five star match... And it's not even the best one of their series! Dusty FAT FUCK Rhodes on commentary is tugboats of lulz. WHAT! A DUDE! :mark:


I generally have to watch a match 2-3 times before I give out a perfect rating, but as of this first viewing, I'm tending to agree with your assessment. Just a master class in wrestling. Dusty was fucking over the top ridiculous on the commentary too, I swear Schiovane could barely get in 5 words before Dusty would start "commenting on the match" which really amounted to Dusty just cutting an American Dream style promo on whatever the matter was at hand. It used to annoy me how Dusty could never just call a match he always had to sound like he's cutting a promo, but now I've done a 180 and it just cracks me up. Only Dusty Rhodes :lmao


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Isn't there another incredibly fun Big Show four way on PPV with a gimmick attached to it where the other three guys bombard him with weapon shots and he just fucks shit up or did I dream that?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JBL vs Rey Mysterio Judgement Day 2006

This is a really intriguing match up on paper, and I've actually never seen a REAL wrestling match with these two involved (WM 25 was, like, 30 seconds). Match starts out smartly with Rey going after JBLs legs, trying to chop him down to size. Rey even does a baseball slide right into JBLs left testicular region which I thought was hilarious. JBL transitions into control doing something I've never actually seen before: Rey is laying on his stomach on the mats outside the ring, and JBL picks him up by his belt and neck and just tosses him head first into the steps, busting Rey Rey open. Never seen that before, looked BRUTAL. JBL in control in this match RULES, he heels it up big time, even going after Rey's wife Angie at ringside. He tosses Rey back in the ring to dish out some more punishment, including locking in a REAL snug sleeper that serves as a great near fall. But JBL won't let his arm drop the third time, he wants to kick Rey's ass some more. JBL gets his payback on Rey when Rey tries to bronco buster him in the corner, JBL catches him with a boot RIGHT IN THE FUCKING DICK. Rey is literally balancing on JBL's boot, his nut sack had to have almost burst in pain. Ref bump, JBL goes for the chair but Rey kicks it right back into his face, then hits the frog splash for the 1-2-3. 

Great match, tons of fun. JBL was as good as you could hope for him to be, and Rey Rey kept things interesting with his well timed hope spots. Definitely a fun match to watch.

Final rating: ***3/4+.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

JBL/Rey from JD 06 rules. Might be my favorite Rey performance in 2006. Even more than the great Orton matches. Just a joy to watch.

Ladies and gentlemen, I honestly just don't understand the world anymore after watching Angle/Eddie from 4/14/05. The match was ok, but what withheld it from being great wasn't Kurt Angle, but Eddie Guerrero! And it's really dawned on me. Throughout 2005 so far, Angle really hasn't had too many good matches, but in all of these matches, he does a very good job of working the back and ribs of a wrestler only for his opponent to no-sell it. Now I kinda expected it from lesser opponents, but when the likes of Shawn Michaels, Marty Jannetty, Rey Mysterio, and EDDIE GUERRERO do a less than stellar job of selling for you, what's the point of structuring a match around attacking a body part? I can't blame Angle anymore for wrestling how he does. Either Kurt is commanding the wrestlers he works with not to sell (which may still be a possibility), or there's a mass conspiracy against the man.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> JBL/Rey from JD 06 rules. Might be my favorite Rey performance in 2006. Even more than the great Orton matches. Just a joy to watch.
> 
> Ladies and gentlemen, I honestly just don't understand the world anymore after watching Angle/Eddie from 4/14/05. The match was ok, but what withheld it from being great wasn't Kurt Angle, but Eddie Guerrero! And it's really dawned on me. Throughout 2005 so far, Angle really hasn't had too many good matches, but in all of these matches, he does a very good job of working the back and ribs of a wrestler only for his opponent to no-sell it. Now I kinda expected it from lesser opponents, but when the likes of Shawn Michaels, Marty Jannetty, Rey Mysterio, and EDDIE GUERRERO do a less than stellar job of selling for you, what's the point of structuring a match around attacking a body part? I can't blame Angle anymore for wrestling how he does. Either Kurt is commanding the wrestlers he works with not to sell (which may still be a possibility), or there's a mass conspiracy against the man.




Don't agree with this assessment at all. That match rules, the whole thing wasn't built around attacking Eddies mid section either. Sure it's worked for a bit, and Eddie sells it while it's being worked, but it's not the focal point of the match. You really seem to get caught up with continuity of selling in matches, when from what I've seen the majority of wrestling matches have a heel working over a body part for a bit and then going on to something else. It happens ALL the time. The funny thing is, Eddie was literally dying at the time this match took place, and his mid section/back was what was giving him the most trouble. I think both guys were awesome in that match, I don't see a problem at all if a guy doesn't sell a body part FOR AN ENTIRE MATCH if it gets worked over for a bit. It's like in the NBA when a guy twists an ankle or gets hit really hard in the stomach: sure he's limping around or doubled over for a bit, but eventually he shakes it off and is back to being mostly normal. They don't limp around for the rest of the game.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

lol dont you think everyone no-sells though even in prime examples of good selling such as Show/Cena 2/09 ? :kobe8


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I have a problem with something like Shawn Michaels blowing off back work at SummerSlam '02 because Triple H absolutely annihilated his back to an extent that no selling it down the stretch was really bad and actually bothered me. That doesn't mean a guy has to sell back work for the entirety of a match. It depends on the level and intensity of the workover. I don't recall the details of the specific Angle/Guerrero match in question so I won't comment on that (although I do remember liking the match). I watched the Jannetty SD match recently though and his selling was fine. Angle's back work wasn't anything that required much long term selling in that one so if the Guerrero match was similar to that I wouldn't have a problem with it.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Isn't there another incredibly fun Big Show four way on PPV with a gimmick attached to it where the other three guys bombard him with weapon shots and he just fucks shit up or did I dream that?


Yup, it's the Singapore Cane match from One Night Stand 08 although it wasn't a Fourway match. Very fun match indeed though. Big Show going ballistic on everyone was wonderful.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Guy LeDouche said:


> Yup, it's the Singapore Cane match from One Night Stand 08 although it wasn't a Fourway match. Very fun match indeed though. Big Show going ballistic on everyone was wonderful.


Right that's what I was thinking of. (Y)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> I have a problem with something like Shawn Michaels blowing off back work at SummerSlam '02 because Triple H absolutely annihilated his back to an extent that no selling it down the stretch was really bad and actually bothered me. That doesn't mean a guy has to sell back work for the entirety of a match. It depends on the level and intensity of the workover. I don't recall the details of the specific Angle/Guerrero match in question so I won't comment on that (although I do remember liking the match). I watched the Jannetty SD match recently though and his selling was fine. Angle's back work wasn't anything that required much long term selling in that one so if the Guerrero match was similar to that I wouldn't have a problem with it.



Oh I totally agree, and that SS 2002 match is a good example of a guy no selling an extensive work over. Shawn's back was THE story for the first 15 minutes or so of that match. Say what you want about Hunter, but the man can work one hell of a beating when targeting a body part. Shawn's selling is spot on too for the entire portion, and then.....he acts like nothing ever happened and it's all "OMG THE SHOWSTOPPER IS BACK!!". Not a fan of that, even though I do somewhat enjoy that match. You just really need to turn your brain off.

That Angle/Guerrero match isn't anything like that. Angle does some stuff to Eddies mid section but at no point do I believe it's the focus or the "story" they were going for. I don't remember the specifics, but if memory serves me correctly it's almost like Angle does a move that hurts Eddies mid section, Eddie winces or grimaces, Angle attacks it for a couple minutes afterwards, then they move on to something else, with Angle only intermittently doing something that would affect Eddies mid section. Not a no sell in my opinion.

Here's a divisive one though: does Cena no sell in the WM 23 match with Shawn? Shawn does an extensive work over of Cena's leg during the first segment, Cena sells appropriately, but then when Cena does his big comeback all the legwork is seemingly ignored. I for one don't actually know where I fall on this one. Because technically I guess a substantial enough amount of time has gone by that Cena might be able to shake it off, and nothing Shawn did to Cena's leg, if I recall correctly, was THAT devastating. Just wondering how others feel about it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That was a problem but wasnt THE problem with the ss 02 match though. Problem with that match is the early portions had some nice back working being applied and a slow and calculating start that would result into something grand, and then HHH/Shawn just throw all the good work out and turn it into a OMGZ epic battle of all time. There is truly two parts of that match it seems

Edit: lol


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I remember when I used to have that SS '02 match at ****1/2. The I re-watched it and it went way, way down. I wouldn't have mind Shawn no selling the back work at the end if he didn't sell it so well and The Game didn't do one hell of a badass job of working it over. But the match went down a lot on the last watch. Brocky/Rocky still rules though.

EDIT: I love when we have these in-depth discussions. Just goes to show how there really is no such thing as the perfect match. There's always some gripe along the way in an otherwise great match and 9 times out of 10 it's a selling issue.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cena's selling of the leg at WM23 was not as bad as it's made out to be. He does ignore it when making his comeback but before it, he shakes his leg to get the blood flowing and then he goes on to make his comeback. I still find the match overrated, though. But largely because it's damn near a squash for Shawn as he has control for 95% of it.

On the subject of Brock vs Rock, I am gonna have to rewatch this. Been watching some of their workout clips on youtube so I am pumped up and this match always delivers with all the energy it has.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SS 2002 is the GOAT show for me, I legit like ever match on that card, Jericho/Flair went up to *** last watch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Don't agree with this assessment at all. That match rules, the whole thing wasn't built around attacking Eddies mid section either. Sure it's worked for a bit, and Eddie sells it while it's being worked, but it's not the focal point of the match. You really seem to get caught up with continuity of selling in matches, when from what I've seen the majority of wrestling matches have a heel working over a body part for a bit and then going on to something else. It happens ALL the time. The funny thing is, Eddie was literally dying at the time this match took place, and his mid section/back was what was giving him the most trouble. I think both guys were awesome in that match, I don't see a problem at all if a guy doesn't sell a body part FOR AN ENTIRE MATCH if it gets worked over for a bit. It's like in the NBA when a guy twists an ankle or gets hit really hard in the stomach: sure he's limping around or doubled over for a bit, but eventually he shakes it off and is back to being mostly normal. They don't limp around for the rest of the game.


You see, that might be where our difference in opinion is based on. To me, Angle working the midsection IS a major part of the match. Angle doesn't just spend 30 seconds on it in all those cases; he spends a good four-five minutes, which is significant time. Not only that, but these workover segments are based on Angle using his amateur wrestling credentials to his advantage instead of using them as a crutch, which is something that all of us have been asking from him. 

Finally, I've noticed that Angle doesn't target his opponent's ribs in the very beginning of the match. In all of those cases, he actually does most of that work right before the finishing stretch, which is initiated by the babyface's comeback. But again, in all of those cases, the babyfaces could have done a better job selling the ribs/back during their comeback. Instead, what bothers me most is that for reasons that flabbergast me, the pace actually quickens with no smooth transition in pace difference to warrant such a change. In the Guerrero match specifically, these two started busting out finishers and rollups in a crazy fast pace that felt so unnatural and without even the slightest bit of connection between the first 2/3's work of the match and the finishing stretch. It's such a lazy and contrived way of setting up a match, and it makes all the prior work before the finishing sequence and comeback turn out to be worthless. And to top all of it off, Angle and Eddie actually had a match in their past where they told a story that connected aspects of the beginning, middle, and end together in their 2/3 falls match. They clearly have it in them and I expected more.

I really don't think I'm asking for as much as you guys think. In terms of star ratings, I actually rate all of those matches decently well (around three stars, except the Jannetty match which is higher). But why should these wrestlers be excused for not doing something so fundamental? For goodness sakes, we had a wrestler last year who did not give even the slightest damn about anything he was doing in the ring, and even HE respected the craft enough to sell continuously throughout the match despite being considered an inferior worker to Michaels, Jannetty, Mysterio, and especially Eddie. 




NAITCH said:


> lol dont you think everyone no-sells though even in prime examples of good selling such as Show/Cena 2/09 ? :kobe8


My problem with that match isn't the selling. That's actually the best part of that match. My issue with that match is that it didn't warrant 20 minutes. It wasn't bad by any stretch and I actually liked it. But they had a match the next month on RAW that told the exact same story (except with a better ending) that only took up a third of the time. At some point during that Smackdown match, it started feeling a lot like Sting/Flair from COTC. They kept recycling the same spots and sequences, and instead of progressing like a match that lasts for 20 minutes asks for, they stay in the same gear. And by doing that, the match drags.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I never really noticed the selling issue in that Eddie/Angle match from 2005. Thought it's a wonderful match and their best, way above anything they did in 2004. I need to check it out again, though.

Just finished Brock vs Rock and it is still a classic. Love how Brock continuously works on the ribs and Rock reacting to the crowd turning on him was pretty cool. ★★★★¼

If only WWE would put up their house show from 2003...


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Until I watch it again and see something drastically different, Michaels/HHH from Summerslam '02 is still ***** and one of my all time favorite matches by default. MOTN on that show for me by a good margin (which isn't saying anything negative about the rest of the show at all).


Did anyone catch Usos vs. Rowan & Harper from Main Event tonight? Any good?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I used to love Michaels/Hunter. I still like it and still think it's a good match all things considered, but it's far from the classic I used to think it was. Their Raw '03 match blows it out of the water.

Gonna watch Cena/Michaels from WrestleMania now. I remember disliking Cena's selling of the leg work but not really hating it.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

I just watched HBK v HHH SS02 last night and it's still 5 stars for me. I hear people complain about shawns selling when he nipped up but there's a thing called adrenaline that can kick in and for a few minutes can make you do incredible things but shawn still sold the back for the rest of the match. Only shawn can come back after 4 years and deliver a match like that.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Still don't like Cena's selling at WM23. It's not like Shawn's leg work was really that brutal or anything but Cena sold it like death initially so I can't really buy into him just shaking it off like that. He tried to salvage it by kicking the leg out which was alright but by then he had already made his comeback with no sign of the leg bothering him. 

The match is still really fucking good though. I actually didn't like the first half of it very much but shit gets real when Michaels hits the piledriver on the steps and everything after that is great. Some of the sequences down the stretch were tremendous. I kinda wish the match ended the first time Cena got the STF on Shawn because of how terrific that sequence was. I think I'd be okay with calling it a legitimately great match, at the very least it's really, really good.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

musclehead said:


> I just watched HBK v HHH SS02 last night and it's still 5 stars for me. I hear people complain about shawns selling when he nipped up but there's a thing called adrenaline that can kick in and for a few minutes can make you do incredible things but shawn still sold the back for the rest of the match. Only shawn can come back after 4 years and deliver a match like that.


I'm sorry but I hate the adrenaline argument. Mainly because of bad experiences in the past with Davey Richards marks using it to defend him. I can buy the adrenaline rush argument, if it's just that-a rush. It should be a short burst and then go right back to the sell. I don't think adrenaline rushes last 20 minutes. And I can't recall Shawn selling the back after the kip-up.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> I'm sorry but I hate the adrenaline argument. Mainly because of bad experiences in the past with Davey Richards marks using it to defend him. I can buy the adrenaline rush argument, if it's just that-a rush. It should be a short burst and then go right back to the sell. I don't think adrenaline rushes last 20 minutes. And I can't recall Shawn selling the back after the kip-up.


to be fair, I always noticed that people defend their favorites with that argument whenever they don't sell, not just "Davey marks"


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

If shawn sold the back for the entire match it would've sucked but he did sell it after the match lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Still don't like Cena's selling at WM23. It's not like Shawn's leg work was really that brutal or anything but Cena sold it like death initially so I can't really buy into him just shaking it off like that. He tried to salvage it by kicking the leg out which was alright but by then he had already made his comeback with no sign of the leg bothering him.
> 
> The match is still really fucking good though. I actually didn't like the first half of it very much but shit gets real when Michaels hits the piledriver on the steps and everything after that is great. Some of the sequences down the stretch were tremendous. I kinda wish the match ended the first time Cena got the STF on Shawn because of how terrific that sequence was. I think I'd be okay with calling it a legitimately great match, at the very least it's really, really good.


Ill have to watch that match again soon, loved it on last watch. HBK slightly heeling it up. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 2002 is still basically a perfect event despite the joke that is the Street Fight. Lets move away from this shite match and go back to Flair vs Windham stuff. Or Mysterio. Or better yet lets bring back the MENG vs Giant match up and have everyone check it out that still hasn't. Giant does a knife edge chop in it. Do you comprehend the level of that, people?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Killer Kahn vs Andre The Giant in the (first ever) stretcher match is super good, I liked it, even without theatrics of recent past and current wrestling.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> SummerSlam 2002 is still basically a perfect event despite the joke that is the Street Fight. Lets move away from this shite match and go back to Flair vs Windham stuff. Or Mysterio. Or better yet lets bring back the MENG vs Giant match up and have everyone check it out that still hasn't. Giant does a knife edge chop in it. Do you comprehend the level of that, people?


Flair vs. Windham is great. One of them at least. I always forget which one and then watch'em again to see if I can start to like the one I dislike. I don't think I've watched the Crockett Cup version despite having it d/l'ed for 3 years.

Rey is a good subject. Easily in my top ten ever. It makes me sad when people shit on him because they talk like he's always been shit but the majority of his career he's been fucking awesome. Some random Rey matches that show his greatness:

vs. Psychosis (BatB 96)
vs. Psychosis in ECW
vs. Juventud in ECW
vs. Malenko the Nitro after BatB 96
vs. Ultimo Dragon @ Spring Stampede 97
vs. Eddie @ HHavoc 97, SD! 6/23/05
vs. Cena in July 2011 RAW
vs. Jericho @ The Bash 09

I hope to find lots more  and ofc I didn't list everything.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's not even shit these days. He's just not a BITW kind of guy b/c he isn't given that chance often & age/injuries have caught up to him. Still a consistent worker whenever he's around. People are just fickle.

Def the best match he had vs Malenko was the one on Nitro in '96 where he wins the Cruiserweight strap. Really big on that one. Mysterio vs Miz from the same night as the Cena match is :mark: Like it seriously rules. You got to toss in vs Chavo from GAB '04. w/all the hope that you've seen it that is. While just about all their matches have been good/great, that's their best of the bunch. Mysterio vs JBL kills it on more than just Judgment Day '06 too. Great chemistry.

See, I can't stop w/great Mysterio matches. Haven't even touched vs Ultimo from WW3 '96, vs Liger, vs Orton, vs Finlay, vs Angle SummerSlam '02, vs Lesnar, vs Undertaker, etc. :mark:


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Seen most of those but vs. Liger? Don't think I've heard of that. Haven't seen that Chavo match.

Watching Slamboree now and Meng vs. Benoit in a death match is on :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs Liger is at Starrcade 1996. Got to see the Chavo match. No joke.

MENG vs Benoit. holy shit. that's all you have to say w/that one. Ending is brilliant.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

oh lol I did a review of SC 96 a few weeks ago. Forgot that match. Loved it. That Meng/Benoit match was great. ***1/2+. Just a brutally physical match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> He's not even shit these days. He's just not a BITW kind of guy b/c he isn't given that chance often & age/injuries have caught up to him. Still a consistent worker whenever he's around. People are just fickle.
> 
> Def the best match he had vs Malenko was the one on Nitro in '96 where he wins the Cruiserweight strap. Really big on that one. Mysterio vs Miz from the same night as the Cena match is :mark: Like it seriously rules. You got to toss in vs Chavo from GAB '04. w/all the hope that you've seen it that is. While just about all their matches have been good/great, that's their best of the bunch. Mysterio vs JBL kills it on more than just Judgment Day '06 too. Great chemistry.
> 
> See, I can't stop w/great Mysterio matches. Haven't even touched vs Ultimo from WW3 '96, vs Liger, vs Orton, vs Finlay, vs Angle SummerSlam '02, vs Lesnar, vs Undertaker, etc. :mark:



That Liger Starrcade match is absolutely awesome. Total dream matchup for me to boot. Love that you pimped the Lesnar match on SD! That is just a fabulous piece of work. Rey doing his run around thing to try and tire Lesnar out was golden. 

I watched the JBL/Rey NM 2005 match last night too. It was just as good as JD 06', and similarly worked too except they change up the transitions. That spot where JBL takes Rey's leg out from under him forcing him to go face first into the steps was GNARLY. Glad I took the time out to watch those two matches, love when I find fresh matchups I haven't seen yet.

I really need to find Flair/Windham from 4/87. The only clip I can seem to find online is only 16 minutes and appears to have a large portion of the match cut out. I did however find a Windham/Arn 2/3 Falls match, never seen that one and I haven't heard anyone pimp it in here. I added it to my playlist and will check it out later.

Didn't get to that SD! 4-way you posted last night. I got caught up watching Foley vs Vader from HH93' for like the 5th time. Love that match, amazed Foley didn't die when Vader squashed him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I really need to find Flair/Windham from 4/87. The only clip I can seem to find online is only 16 minutes and appears to have a large portion of the match cut out.


Ill see if i can upload it this week for you. 

-------------------------------------------------------

The Meng/Benoit matches, they had two or three on PPV didn't they?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Ill see if i can upload it this week for you.
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> 
> The Meng/Benoit matches, they had two or three on PPV didn't they?


They sure did, I believe they had 2 Texas Death matches back to back, one at Slamboree 1997 (the best of the bunch) and one at GAB 97' (still awfully good). Then there is footage from a house show match in Germany that's another top notch match.

And that would be awesome if you could upload that Windham/Flair match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> They sure did, I believe they had 2 Texas Death matches back to back, one at Slamboree 1997 (the best of the bunch) and one at GAB 97' (still awfully good). Then there is footage from a house show match in Germany that's another top notch match.
> 
> And that would be awesome if you could upload that Windham/Flair match


No worries, uploading it to DM now. Yeah that other Meng/Benoit match is from the NWO/WCW Takeover 1997 PPV. ill have to watch them later, starting with Slamboree.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Ric Flair vs Barry Windham (NWA WORLD TITLE 04.1987)*


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

This is the April '87 Windham/Flair match, and it goes about 26 minutes. Not sure how long Hitman's is, though.







And there he goes a'posting right as I do and makes me look like a tool!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That Liger Starrcade match is absolutely awesome. Total dream matchup for me to boot. Love that you pimped the Lesnar match on SD! That is just a fabulous piece of work. Rey doing his run around thing to try and tire Lesnar out was golden.
> 
> I watched the JBL/Rey NM 2005 match last night too. It was just as good as JD 06', and similarly worked too except they change up the transitions. That spot where JBL takes Rey's leg out from under him forcing him to go face first into the steps was GNARLY. Glad I took the time out to watch those two matches, love when I find fresh matchups I haven't seen yet.
> 
> ...


Liger bullying Mysterio the majority of the match is gold. Some still kind of view it as "disappointing" b/c it wasn't a Mysterio vs Super Calo type amazing spectacle, but I really wished most would appreciate Liger showing his range in going at Mysterio in a different way. Plus, Mysterio getting to put on the super babyface cap for another match? Always a winning scenario.

w/o that match I'd consider that PPV a waste of time, but I'm sure glad it made it. Remember really wanting JBL to be in the upper midcard ranks to have some new, fresh approach w/the company. First thing he got was a program w/Mysterio and it was exactly what I hoped. They have their first (competitive, iirc) match on the Smackdown following WM in 2005. It's in San Diego and tournament for WWE Champion #1 contender so the heat is high. Finish is good even if "flat" from a different perspective. You should check it out. Not sure how it compares to the PPV matches - probably not as good - but hey, that's what watching will decide.

Well, if not watching Big Show take on the World, may as well see Vader & Foley destroy each other. Always a guaranteed great watch.

Meng vs Benoit was indeed two times over on PPV in 1997, plus the third match being on a German PPV or big event thingy. Yeah1993 posted it a good bit back in the Classic Wrestling Discussion thread, so it is on Youtube if you search it. I think it was Youtube. Maybe dailymotion. Either way, it's out there for ya. And it's awesome, of course.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> *Ric Flair vs Barry Windham (NWA WORLD TITLE 04.1987)*





Rah said:


> This is the April '87 Windham/Flair match, and it goes about 26 minutes. Not sure how long Hitman's is, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Zeppers: repped; Rah: need to spread some around. Thanks a lot to the both of you. 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Liger bullying Mysterio the majority of the match is gold. Some still kind of view it as "disappointing" b/c it wasn't a Mysterio vs Super Calo type amazing spectacle, but I really wished most would appreciate Liger showing his range in going at Mysterio in a different way. Plus, Mysterio getting to put on the super babyface cap for another match? Always a winning scenario.
> 
> w/o that match I'd consider that PPV a waste of time, but I'm sure glad it made it. Remember really wanting JBL to be in the upper midcard ranks to have some new, fresh approach w/the company. First thing he got was a program w/Mysterio and it was exactly what I hoped. They have their first (competitive, iirc) match on the Smackdown following WM in 2005. It's in San Diego and tournament for WWE Champion #1 contender so the heat is high. Finish is good even if "flat" from a different perspective. You should check it out. Not sure how it compares to the PPV matches - probably not as good - but hey, that's what watching will decide.
> 
> ...


I was checking Meltzers ratings to see if that January Windham/Flair match is the one he gave 5 stars to (it wasn't, he gave it to the April bout) when I stumbled across his rating for that Foley/Vader HH93' match. He gave it an astonishing ****3/4. I remember liking it, but I didn't think it was THAT good so I just had to rewatch to see if I was missing something. Nope. Still a really, really good, borderline great match but not an all timer like he said. That's depressing considering I consistently overrate Foley just cause I love the dude so much. Oh well, different strokes for different folks, still happy I watched it again as it's the textbook match for how to WOW an audience with over the top physicality and brutality. Love how Foley decided the best way for him to get over as a face after being a heel in the Sting feud was to allow Vader to just beat the ever loving shit out of him. Foley is a complete and utter psycho, but gosh do I love him for it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Meng vs Benoit was indeed two times over on PPV in 1997, plus the third match being on a German PPV or big event thingy. Yeah1993 posted it a good bit back in the Classic Wrestling Discussion thread, so it is on Youtube if you search it. I think it was Youtube. Maybe dailymotion. Either way, it's out there for ya. And it's awesome, of course.


Yeah, i have the '97 PPV's on DVD so ill dig them out, including that German PPV (NWO/WCW Takeover 1997).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have only watched the Slamboree match between Benoit and Meng and it was awesome to say the least.

Regarding Mysterio vs JBL, I think the Smackdown match the week after Wrestlemania 21 is better than No Mercy and maybe even Judgment Day (despite the nonsensical finish). They had another Smackdown match weeks before No Mercy that was decent too, but probably the least good out of the bunch. Then there's the rematch after Judgment Day when JBL retires from wrestling, it's worth watching as well.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Slamboree 1997 was damn bad. What do you expect when it's headlined by Steve McMichael vs. Reggie White and Nash/Hall/Syxx vs. Piper/Flair/Greene. That NFL match is the first match that I've skipped in my WCW watching. Watched the first three or so minutes and just couldn't do it.

Onto the GAB 97. Headlined by Piper/Flair vs. Nash/Hall. jfc. Where is Hogan the last three ppvs? At least it has Savage/DDP and Psychosis/Dragon and hopefully a Rey match but not looking forward to this, at all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I love that six man tag from Slamboree. But it's so weird. The matches on that show were ****+, but the PPV wasn't that fun.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I thought the 6-man was passable and gave it *** but not main event material. Greene was an embarrassment when he came in the ring. Nothing special about it. Just kind of there.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

Just dropped in to say FUCK anybody who has anything bad to say about Rey Mysterio .

Or The Great Khali.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Haven't seen that 6-man, but I can tell you Greene & McMichael performed very well in the tag match against the Horsemen at GAB '96. Good match.

So WWE.com posted their list of the Top 10 matches in Main Event history thus far. As expected, it's questionable:

10. Sheamus vs. Bray Wyatt (4/29/2014)
9. AJ Lee vs. Naomi (8/21/2013)
8. Randy Orton vs. Cesaro (5/8/2013)
7. Chris Jericho vs. Cody Rhodes (6/26/2013)
6. The Usos & Mark Henry vs. Shield (8/7/2013)
5. John Cena vs. Damien Sandow (11/28/2012)
4. Antonio Cesaro vs. Kofi Kingston (5/1/2013)
3. Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler (2/13/2013)
2. Sheamus vs. Wade Barrett (5/29/2013)
1. The Miz vs. Dolph Ziggler (11/21/2012)

I haven't seen Miz/Ziggler, but I have a hard time believing it's the best match in Main Event history. No Shield/Wyatts? Sheamus/Ziggler? The first main event with Punk/Sheamus?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Six man tag from Slamboree 1997 is awesome. KEVIN GREENE


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We are all in agreement that MNM ruled, right? Count me on the side that puts their JD 05 match over the main event on that show. And the matches with Eddie and Rey. Goodness. And then the Hardyz. Second best tag team of the past ten years in the WWE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My goodness Flair/Windham (01.20.1987) is indeed fucking awesome, it's non stop all the way through, balls to the wall-esque. Can't believe it took me this long to watch it, ill have to check out the other two matches, BOTB and the other one from '87.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

> - WWE is working on a new "Macho Man" Randy Savage DVD. Unlike the first Savage DVD that was released by WWE five years ago, this one will feature a documentary on Savage's career. While there has been no release date announced, several stars have already been interviewed for the projec










:mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We are all in agreement that MNM ruled, right?


lolno


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We are all in agreement that MNM ruled, right? Count me on the side that puts their JD 05 match over the main event on that show. And the matches with Eddie and Rey. Goodness. And then the Hardyz. Second best tag team of the past ten years in the WWE.


Yes, I have the ME at **** and the opener (MNM vs L&K) at ****1/4. Judgement Day 2006 is a hella consistent show, I thought Taker/Khali was fine for what it was and at least better than Lashley/Booker.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Great American Bash 1989


*2-Ring Battle Royal*

I guess there were some issues with the original footage as this was skipping around a lot. It was also really hard to follow because the announcers weren’t saying who was getting eliminated and the cameras weren’t picking them up either. I also can’t say that anything interesting happened at all in this. You want to know the highlight of the match? It would probably be when that one guy through another guy over the top rope… While I did miss a few minutes of this due to the original footage being messed up I can’t imagine that I missed much and I can’t imagine seeing any more of this match would make me think it was any good. The one thing that could have saved this was that the last two guys were supposed to have a match and there were some talented guys in the ring. Instead Dan Spivey and Sid were the winners in each ring and Teddy Long, their manager, had them split the profits. I guess that was better than a Sid singles match.
*½* *



*Wild Bill Irwin vs. Brian Pillman*

Not a knock again Wild Bill but I didn’t exactly have high hopes for this match when I saw he was in it. I was wrong as Wild Bill did really well and this turned out pretty well. You see the first offensive burst from Pillman to start things off and he has Wild Bill rattled. So rattled that I was half expecting this to be a squash. Thankfully that didn’t happen as Wild Bill was able to ground Pillman and take control of the match. Now the control segment wasn’t amazing but it was good as Wild Bill plays his character well. He just came across as this asshole dirtbag that was so unlikable. He talked a lot when in control of the match and the helped me stay interested. Pillman’s comeback was really good and the finish worked as it was unique (Pillman hit a crossbody from the top rope of one ring into the other) and more importantly it clearly caught Wild Bill off guard. The match was short but well worked and entertaining. If I stick to watching shows from this time period the undercard should be a lot more enjoyable with someone like Pillman working regularly. 
****¼* 



*The Dynamic Dudes vs. The Skyscrapers*

This was a really weird match, like super strange. The Skyscrapers were the the clear heels in this match but the crowd was going insane for Sid. When Spivey was in the ring there were really loud “Sid” chants and the fans went crazy whenever he did anything. Other than this strangeness the match was pretty standard. The Dudes acted like they were facing much larger guys and they worked the cat and mouse stuff decently. It just seemed so silly for them to be working that way when Johnny Ace was about the same size as Dan Spivey and not much smaller than Sid. It worked with Douglas but with Ace I just felt that it was stupid because there really wasn’t a huge size difference. Spivey wrestled most of the match for his team and he was OK, minus the terrible powerbomb that ended the match. While this isn’t a great match seeing a crowd react this way towards Sid made it worth seeing.
****


_Tuxedo Match:_
*Jim Cornette vs. Paul E. Dangerously* 

They’re not wrestlers but they did their best. Heyman said before the match that he wanted to cripple Cornette because he knew he had bad knees. He tried to do so and focused on the knee. Cornette might not be a wrestler but the guy can sell. Really good effort from him. Heyman tried, he went for the knee but again he’s not a wrestler and his offense didn’t look great. Overall this was somewhat entertaining and both guys did their best. I won’t knock them for that.
*NO RATING*


_Tornado Tag_
*The Steiner Brothers vs. The Varsity Club (Sullivan and Rotunda*)

I was really looking forward to this and I was kind of let down with it. For the time it lasted it was pretty crazy and out of control, which was great. They were in and out of the ring, brawling non-stop. Everyone was selling but they weren’t selling something for 3 minutes like you would see in a multi-person match today. The Varsity Club had a great strategy where they stuck together in one of the rings and would constantly be throwing a Steiner outside the ring whenever they could to double team the other. The ending was more of a quick win and not the feud finish I was hoping for. I was left wanting more because I liked what I saw, I just thought there wasn’t enough of it. Really fun and wild brawl.
*****


_Television Championship Match:_
*Sting(c) w/Eddie Gilbert vs. The Great Muta w/Gary Hart*

The match started out really strong and progressively got worse. Sting and Muta start out throwing bumps at each other. Bodies were flying everyone, kicks were being thrown, it was great. Of course they couldn’t possibly keep that pace up for long and Muta eventually took control of the match and slowed the pace down. His control stuff was good. While he didn’t focus on anything in particular it really looked like he was just dissecting Sting. Sting’s comeback is where I got annoyed. It’s not that Sting did anything wrong it’s just that there was bad booking. There was a ref bump that led to a back suplex that Sting did but he ended up getting pinned. It’s an old school finish that I don’t love but it was executed poorly. Muta wins the match but at best Sting had 1 shoulder down and I think that’s questionable. The match was good but easily see how they could have done better.
*****



_United States Championship Match_
*Lex Luger(c) vs. Ricky Steamboat *

Another good, but not great match. Steamboat spends a good deal of time working from behind and it worked perfectly for this match. Luger was heeling it up and you watched as he went from the arrogant heel to an angry heel. It worked and Luger did a good show showing his progressions. Steamboat showed some signs of life from time to time that kept things interesting because he’s a guy that you always think can make a comeback. The ending fit since the match was originally set to be a no DQ match but Luger refused to defend his title with the stipulation. So Luger couldn’t beat Steamboat so he went for for a chair to get DQed. It didn’t work out but Steamboat lost control and ended up getting himself DQed. Luger going for the DQ made sense but Steamboat getting DQed was just aggravating. I feel like everyone in the building wa screaming, “No!” as he went for the chair. 
****¼ *



_War Games_
*The Fabulous Freebirds and The Samoan Swat Team w/Paul E. Dangerously vs. The Road Warriors, The Midnight Express, and Steve Williams w/Jim Cornette and Paul Ellering 
*
I’m a big fan of War Games matches and this was worked really well. The first 5 minutes are always fun to watch because you get to see 2 guys just go crazy for 5 minutes at first. Then comes the rollercoaster ride where momentum is constantly shifting back and forth. Naturally the heels had the numbers advantage so every time the face team would get some momentum going it would be disrupted by the heels getting a man advantage. While I won’t call this one of the all time great War Games matches it was still highly entertaining and they did a good job going through the progressions. I wasn’t a huge fan of the end though. I mean it wa chaotic with everyone in the ring together but I didn’t feel like the face team had actually taken advantage of things when they won the match. They just got lucky with their freshest guy, Hawk, being in a ring alone with Jimmy Garvin, who started the match. There were some really fun interactions as well. Terry Gordy and Steve Williams were basically engaged in a brawl the entire time they were both in the match (which was a really long time) and Hayes coming in last for his team, hitting a few DDTs, and then going into an empty ring to celebrate and talk shit to Hawk was pretty fantastic and got him and his team a ton of heat.

The managers were fantastic in this match, they really added to the match and they basically acted like coaches would during a sporting event. The interactions between Michael Hayes and Paul Heyman were amazing and Cornette was on his game in the sense that you could see him making a plan during the match. Heyman said at one point that he was going to send the Freebirds in and then the Samoans but the plan was changed when things weren’t going well in the ring and he sent in a big Samoan. Hayes really made me laugh when he asked Heyman if he really had to go into the match and when Heyman said yes the unhappy look on Hayes’ face followed by a “Damn” was really funny. Cornette was pretty great because he basically had to force Hawk to not enter into the match. Hawk was getting the crowd pumped up and it looked like he would be the 4th man into the match. But the managers held him back because they wanted him to be the “clean up” hitter and go in last. The managers made the match entertaining and made it seem more like a sporting event in that you could almost see them changing their strategy based on what was going on in the ring.

While there are better War Games matches out there this one is one of the better ones that doesn’t involve the Horsemen. I would have liked to have seen a little more of a story in the ring other than the standard switching of momentum that you see in every War Games match. There wasn’t a weak link on either team, neither team targeted one person over another to set up the submission, there wasn’t anything like that and I think that really would have helped. Still it was highly entertaining and even though they didn’t go the extra mile with a story during the match I still thought this was really well done.
****3/4 *


_NWA Championship Match:_
*Ric Flair(c) vs. Terry Funk*

I didn’t even know that this match existed until I watched this show. I’ve seen their classic “I Quit” match and never realized that they had a match that led up to it. I feel like this should be required viewing before you watch the “I Quit” match now that I’ve seen this. The hatred between Flair and Funk is there and it never leaves. Flair is playing pure face here and him and Funk just go to war with each other. I was happy to see that the ref gave them a little more leeway as there were a few instances of shoving the ref or use of a weapon that could have ended the match but thankfully didn’t. You had the feeling that they hated each other and you saw that it wa a struggle for both guys to stay within the rules of the match. I’m actually shocked that this didn’t end in a DQ. 

The offense also looked amazing. Flair was going for revenge on Funk for piledriver him on the table and he went after the neck. Funk’s selling of those moves was just amazing. Amazing to the point that it was almost uncomfortable to watch because it looked like Flair was really messing him up. The knees to the back of the head while Funk was laying face down were brutal and the piledrivers that both guys did were fantastic. You had some heel tactics from Funk but they consisted of him trying to use weapons more than other cheap tricks. In the end both guys were bloody and there had been a crazy war, but you were left thinking that either guy could have won the match. I loved it, the only thing that’s keeping me from going insanely high on the rating was that there was this point in the match where Funk was crawling away from Flair towards the stage. I just don’t like the idea that in this feud that Funk would be running. I know he’s the heel and that’s just what heels do but it just wasn’t needed and for a few minutes took away the lunatic mystique that surrounded Funk for this entire feud. Still doing one thing that I didn’t like over the course of what was an amazing match don’t make me too upset. I can see people say that nobody can touch Flair’s 1989. 
*****½ *​
What a great show. It was so easy to sit through and other than a bad opener everything else was really interesting to watch. There are a bunch of really solid matches in the undercard and the 2 main events delivered. I can’t complain about this show at all.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> My goodness Flair/Windham (01.20.1987) is indeed fucking awesome, it's non stop all the way through, balls to the wall-esque. Can't believe it took me this long to watch it, ill have to check out the other two matches, BOTB and the other one from '87.


Glad you loved it as much as I did man. It's phenomenal.



Jarsy1 said:


> :mark:


Oh FUCK YEA. I've been waiting on this for FOREVER. Now all they need to do is a Vader doc set and induct both guys to the HoF and I can die in peace.



TaylorFitz said:


> Great American Bash 1989
> 
> 
> *2-Ring Battle Royal*
> ...


Feel like a broken record, but as always man, great review I enjoyed reading it. Only thing I outright disagree with is the Funk crawling away spot. I absolutely LOVED that. Funk was the very definition of what JR would call "a scalded dog".. Funk went in all fired up and crazy ready to maim Flair and possibly end his career, but when he saw that things were not going his way and he was getting his ass handed to him, he high tailed it out of there. Doesn't get anymore heelish than that, Funk was dead set on making sure there wasn't one redeemable quality about him, as all truly great heels should IMO, so he acted the coward and the fans hated him for it. If he had stood in there and slugged it out and refused to give up, well then that's something the fans could respect about him. He wanted to make sure every single fan in the house hated his guts and that they wanted to see Flair vanquish him. That's an honorable goal non kayfabe of course.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Please tell me someone watched the Ziggler/Batista match from SmackDown?


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

William Murderface said:


> Please tell me someone watched the Ziggler/Batista match from SmackDown?


That was last week. It was really good I must say.

I read this week dark match was Ziggler vs Zayn and it was an excellent match but I dont know where I can see it.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Leon Knuckles said:


> That was last week. It was really good I must say.
> 
> I read this week dark match was Ziggler vs Zayn and it was an excellent match but I dont know where I can see it.




Ziggler selling the BRAINBUSTAHHHH is a dream of mine.  Shame it will never happen.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea reviews from the ziggler/zayn match said it was "unreal" of course it was a dark match though


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Ziggler can sell bacon to a pig. :dolph


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Leon Knuckles said:


> That was last week. It was really good I must say.
> 
> I read this week dark match was Ziggler vs Zayn and it was an excellent match but I dont know where I can see it.


Of course it was last week.

That match was so awful.

Zayn on the main roster soon hopefully :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I really enjoyed Ziggler/Batista. 

I wish there was some way to see that Ziggler/Zayn match. If only it can leak like Neville/Zayn did. Man, Ziggler/Zayn could have been booked for Takeover. It's a dream combination I never dreamed of.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Angle/Michaels WM21 for the first time in years. What a mess.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Glad you loved it as much as I did man. It's phenomenal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I get why he did it but I don't think it was the right time for him to do that. They still had another match with each other. And when this match ended Funk still had life and was fighting. I just don't like that in the middle of him being a total lunatic badass that he went into full coward mode. It just didn't seem consistent with how he was acting. Now if he did that near the end of their "I Quit" match it would be a different story.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

TaylorFitz said:


> I get why he did it but I don't think it was the right time for him to do that. They still had another match with each other. And when this match ended Funk still had life and was fighting. I just don't like that in the middle of him being a total lunatic badass that he went into full coward mode. It just didn't seem consistent with how he was acting. Now if he did that near the end of their "I Quit" match it would be a different story.



I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think differently. I felt it was an apropos thing for his character to do in that situation. I was only 1 year old when that match took place so I couldn't tell you for sure, but I think Terry just wanted to make sure the fans were 1000% behind Flair for that match, as Flair had just come off that Steamboat feud technically as a heel, and Terry even then was a pretty well respected veteran. It needed to be obvious that Terry was a no good coward and Flair was the brave fighting champion. He couldn't do it in the I Quit match because they were setting Terry up for a face turn after that match. He had to stay in there and fight in that I Quit match so the fans could respect his tenacity even in losing. 

Just me personally, Terry crawling away in that GAB match was a borderline goosebumps inducing moment. Definitely put a smile on my face


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Watching Angle/Michaels WM21 for the first time in years. What a mess.


Vengeance is even worse 8*D


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think differently. I felt it was an apropos thing for his character to do in that situation. I was only 1 year old when that match took place so I couldn't tell you for sure, but I think Terry just wanted to make sure the fans were 1000% behind Flair for that match, as Flair had just come off that Steamboat feud technically as a heel, and Terry even then was a pretty well respected veteran. It needed to be obvious that Terry was a no good coward and Flair was the brave fighting champion. He couldn't do it in the I Quit match because they were setting Terry up for a face turn after that match. He had to stay in there and fight in that I Quit match so the fans could respect his tenacity even in losing.
> 
> Just me personally, Terry crawling away in that GAB match was a borderline goosebumps inducing moment. Definitely put a smile on my face


I'm looking back on it as well since I wasn't even alive when the match took place. 

I also didn't know about the Funk face turn after the Flair match. 

The thing is that I never thought Funk was a coward when he was fighting Flair aside from when he crawled away. I sort of looked at the feud as something like what Shawn and Foley did at Mind Games or what Cena and Umaga did in their two matches. You had the face fighting a psycho heel but in this case there was an added level of personal hatred. I wouldn't think Foley or Umaga running away would have been good ideas either.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> :kobe
> 
> Monsters Inc at *** is a debauchery


Truth. I will go the full ***** on Monsters Inc. Incredibly entertaining. As a single Dad my 5 year old wants "Mike and Sully" more than any other movie. 



The Hitman said:


> Watching Austin/Rock (Backlash 1999), forgot how good of a brawl this was.


Love that match. Have never really been able to put my finger on why but it's a lot of fun. 



The Hitman said:


> Now watching Sting/Vader (Great American Bash 1992), before moving along to their Starrcade match.
> 
> Fucking LOVE this series.


Same here. Fantastic chemistry those two had together. 



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> SS 2002 is the GOAT show for me, I legit like ever match on that card, Jericho/Flair went up to *** last watch


Great PPV. Has to be one of the best ever. 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Killer Kahn vs Andre The Giant in the (first ever) stretcher match is super good, I liked it, even without theatrics of recent past and current wrestling.


I had this match on an old coliseum VHS I believe. I have not seen it in years but remembered loving it. Is this on the network? :mark: 



Jarsy1 said:


> :mark:


Day.....made! :mark: :mark: 



TaylorFitz said:


> Great American Bash 1989
> 
> 
> *2-Ring Battle Royal*
> ...


Great write up (as always with you) of one of my fave WCW/NWA PPVs. 



Leon Knuckles said:


> Ziggler can sell bacon to a pig. :dolph


Or glue to a horse


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nicking an idea from Cal, i might put together a 'Best of WWF 2001 PPV Matches' list/comp. Suggestions welcome.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> Vengeance is even worse 8*D


Not putting myself through that then. I wonder if any of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches would hold up for me. I'm confident WM25 would, and probably 26 too. I only just realized how little I care for the 'OMG GUYZ I'M SO TIRED I CAN BARELY MOVE' act he does and I'm assuming he's like that in all of his 20+ minute matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Nicking an idea from Cal, i might put together a 'Best of WWF 2001 PPV Matches' list/comp. Suggestions welcome.


I'll throw out some obvious ones:

Austin vs Angle (Both Summerslam and Unforgiven)
Rock vs Jericho (No Mercy)
Benoit vs Jericho (Royal Rumble)
Benoit vs Angle (WM 17 and Backlash)
Austin vs HHH (No Way Out)
Rock vs Austin (WM 17)
TLC II (WM 17)
Kane vs Triple H (Judgement Day)
Austin vs Taker (Judgement Day)
Brothers of Destruction vs Two Man Power Trip (Backlash)
Tajiri vs Xpac (Summerslam)
Survivor Series Tag (Survivor Series, duh )

Hope that helps 


Saint Dick said:


> Not putting myself through that then. I wonder if any of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches would hold up for me. I'm confident WM25 would, and probably 26 too. I only just realized how little I care for the 'OMG GUYZ I'M SO TIRED I CAN BARELY MOVE' act he does and I'm assuming he's like that in all of his 20+ minute matches.


Out of Michaels second run, WM 19, WM 20, WM 22, WM 25, and WM 26 should DEFINITELY hold up as being great matches. I personally like WM 21, WM 23, and WM 24 fairly well too. I'm not even a Michaels fan, he just had some great matches and even greater opponents (excepting 22 and 23) to work with at WrestleMania. Even so. The Deadman will ALWAYS be the true "Mr. WrestleMania" to me.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Not putting myself through that then. I wonder if any of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches would hold up for me. I'm confident WM25 would, and probably 26 too. I only just realized how little I care for the 'OMG GUYZ I'M SO TIRED I CAN BARELY MOVE' act he does and I'm assuming he's like that in all of his 20+ minute matches.


WM 21 is the only stinker he really has in my opinion, but I mean he was wrestling 2005 Kurt Angle so he was doomed from the beginning.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Not putting myself through that then. I wonder if any of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches would hold up for me. I'm confident WM25 would, and probably 26 too. I only just realized how little I care for the* 'OMG GUYZ I'M SO TIRED I CAN BARELY MOVE' *act he does and I'm assuming he's like that in all of his 20+ minute matches.


Isn't that called selling? 


Nah I'm just messing with you, I totally get what you mean. Michaels is corny. Ain't no getting around it. A lot of people love it and think it's HIGH DRAMA, for me personally I think it's corny when he does it EXCEPT at WrestleMania. Then, and only then, really, is it okay for him to do his OMG SHAWN MICHAELS THE SHOWSTOPPA EPIC~ routine, cause it's wrestle freaking mania he's allowed to be epic. Just my .02

Off to watch that Windham/Flair 4/87 match and then Hayley's Big Show 4way. I'll post my thoughts then I'm done.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think i have this as a preliminary list ATM: (Best Of 2001 WWF PPV Matches)

Royal Rumble 2001
Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) (Royal Rumble 2001)
Steve Austin vs Triple H (2/3 Falls) (No Way Out 2001)
Kurt Angle vs The Rock (No Way Out 2001)
Chris Jericho vs Chris Benoit vs X-Pac vs Eddy Guerrero (No Way Out 2001)
Steve Austin vs The Rock (Wrestlemania 17)
Triple H vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania 17)
Edge & Christian vs The Hardy Boyz (Tables, Ladders and Chairs) (Wrestlemania 17)
The Big Show vs Kane vs Raven (Hardcore Match) (Wrestlemania 17)
Steve Austin & Triple H vs The Undertaker & Kane (Backlash 2001)
Rhyno vs Raven (Falls Count Anywhere) (Backlash 2001)
Kurt Angle vs Chris Benoit (30 Minute Ultimate Submission match) (Backlash 2001)
Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle (2/3 Falls) (Judgment Day 2001)
Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Judgment Day 2001)
Kane vs Triple H (Judgment Day 2001)
Kurt Angle vs Shane McMahon (King of the Ring 2001)
Team WWF vs Team WCW/ECW (Invasion 2001)
Edge & Christian vs The Hardy Boyz (Tables, Ladders and Chairs) (Summerslam 2001)
Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001)
Rob Van Dam vs Jeff Hardy (Ladder Match) (Summerslam 2001)
Chris Jericho vs Rhyno (Summerslam 2001)
Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2001)
The Rock vs Chris Jericho (No Mercy 2001)
Steve Austin vs Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (No Mercy 2001)
Team WWF vs Team WCW/ECW (Survivor Series 2001)
Rob Van Dam vs The Undertaker (Vengeance 2001)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Not putting myself through that then. I wonder if any of Shawn's big WrestleMania matches would hold up for me. I'm confident WM25 would, and probably 26 too. I only just realized how little I care for the 'OMG GUYZ I'M SO TIRED I CAN BARELY MOVE' act he does and I'm assuming he's like that in all of his 20+ minute matches.


Amen. Hate that a ton whenever anyone does it. Actually a running gag behind the aformentioned shitstorm Ziggler vs Batista match mentioned itt a few posts above. It's like overblown selling that is treated as if guys are taking the piss or something in front of the fans _(in general; the Batista match was sad b/c he was just clearly gassed & Ziggler tried to make him look good by complying? idk. One of many things wrong w/that "match")_

Def something I can't tolerate when watching. I'm also in the camp that while Michaels vs Angle WM 21 is a DUD to begin w/, the Vengeance rematch is legit 30x worse. Unfathomable, but it is true.

------------

Other good/great WWF 2001 PPV matches not listed:

Tajiri vs Regal (Survivor Series)
Edge vs Test (Survivor Series)
Christian vs Al Snow (Survivor Series)
Tajiri vs Rhyno (Unforgiven)
Jericho vs Rhyno (SummerSlam)
Dudleys & Test vs APA & Spike (SummerSlam)
Jericho vs Benoit vs Eddie vs X-Pac, iirc (No Way Out)
Tag Team Turmoil (Judgment Day)
Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit (King of the Ring)
KANE VS TEST (No Mercy)
Hardys vs Hurricane/Storm (No Mercy)
Austin vs Angle vs RVD (No Mercy)
Undertaker vs RVD (Vengeance)
Rock vs Jericho (Vengeance)
Regal vs Edge (Vengeance)
Jeff Hardy vs RVD (Invasion)
Edge & Christian vs Awesome & Storm (Invasion)
Tajiri vs Tazz (Invasion)
Kane vs Raven vs Big Show (WrestleMania 17)

I'll leave the rest to the imagination. 8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> WM 21 is the only stinker he really has in my opinion, but I mean he was wrestling 2005 Kurt Angle so he was doomed from the beginning.


Yeah but that match was too much of a mess for me to put all the blame on Kurt. From the ridiculousness of Michaels dominating the mat work portion, to the back injury going nowhere, to the forced epicness at the end. Angle was bad Angle but Michaels wasn't good either.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Isn't that called selling?
> 
> 
> Nah I'm just messing with you, I totally get what you mean. Michaels is corny. Ain't no getting around it. A lot of people love it and think it's HIGH DRAMA, for me personally I think it's corny when he does it EXCEPT at WrestleMania. Then, and only then, really, is it okay for him to do his OMG SHAWN MICHAELS THE SHOWSTOPPA EPIC~ routine, cause it's wrestle freaking mania he's allowed to be epic. Just my .02
> ...


Corny is the perfect word for it. That doesn't mean it can't work. I'll probably go on a Michaels run and end up watching the Taker matches and I doubt I'd have a problem with it there because those ARE high drama, epic wars. Didn't even mind it too much against Cena at 23 because he was bleeding so I could buy into him being that exhausted. Not in the Angle match at 21 though. Came off as a forced attempt to make the whole thing feel epic.

Now that I think about it, that type of selling is tailor made for his HiaC with HHH and I bet it works well there. Not saying that match is great or anything just that Shawn's overly dramatic shit would work for the length of that match. 

Angle/Jannetty absolutely smokes Angle/Michaels btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Angle/Jannetty, one match ive still to watch.  Ill dig it out tomorrow.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> Watching Angle/Michaels WM21 for the first time in years. What a mess.


That's a love/hate match for me. I remember loving it, hating it then loving it again lol.



William Murderface said:


> Vengeance is even worse 8*D


This match was always a hate for me. Just horrible!

Is it safe to say Kurt started going to shit by 2005? I mean he had his moments before but there's no denying his greatness from 2002-2003. Can't recall much 2004 stuff but I he was on point in those years. Heck, look at the Cena match from '03. Those two put on a clinic yet just two years later they couldn't match it at all.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Michael's 2000s mania matches arent that bad if bad at all tbh, mania 21 would be the only bad one as Murderface said. But just look who he was in there with

I also agree that Vengeance is even worse


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Vince out shined Kurt on the grandest stage of them all 8*D

Kurt never really had the best Mania matches now that I think about it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> Kurt never really had the best Mania matches now that I think about it.


It's a shame because just look at his list of opponents: Jericho, Benoit, Kane, Brock, Eddie, HBK, Mysterio & Orton.

All of them are talented opponents but the closest he came to having a WM classic is the HBK match which I suddenly seem to be the biggest fan of in this thread out of everyone except Cal. And not because I mark for it (I found it overrated from the get go), it's just that everyone is shitting on it non-stop now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Angle/Mysterio/Orton match should have been given more time IMO.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

It's a toss up between Angle/Benoit & Angle/Kane for me.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Speaking of Vince outshining Kurt, is it safe to say the guy puts on some of the best matches at Mania? Call me crazy but I enjoyed every moment of that match with Hogan.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Amen. Hate that a ton whenever anyone does it. Actually a running gag behind the aformentioned shitstorm Ziggler vs Batista match mentioned itt a few posts above. It's like overblown selling that is treated as if guys are taking the piss or something in front of the fans _(in general; the Batista match was sad b/c he was just clearly gassed & Ziggler tried to make him look good by complying? idk. One of many things wrong w/that "match")_
> 
> Def something I can't tolerate when watching. I'm also in the camp that while Michaels vs Angle WM 21 is a DUD to begin w/, the Vengeance rematch is legit 30x worse. Unfathomable, but it is true.
> 
> ...


Good call on most of those, especially Taker/RVD, Regal/Tajiri (greatest 2 minute match ever. Seriously, Regal gets busted the fuck open in a 2 minute match. How great is that? TAJIRIS KICKS>everything) Jericho/Rhyno, and Rock/Jericho Vengeance (thought I was the only one that dug it).

Just finished Windham/Flair 4-87. Spectacular match, a certified classic, but the 1-87 match murders it (get it ) as does BotB 86. I think I'm all in on the 1/87 match being the best of the bunch, but good lord the quality of all 3 is just off the charts awesome. The Steamboat series gets all the pub but man if they are in fact better than these 3 Windham matches, it ain't by much folks. Barry in his prime appears to me to be as good as anyone in the business, and by now we all know that Flair is a god and we are all just his humble worshippers.

Just dialed up that SD 4-way you pimped, time to give it a watch.



The Hitman said:


> Angle/Jannetty, one match ive still to watch.  Ill dig it out tomorrow.





William Murderface said:


> Vince out shined Kurt on the grandest stage of them all 8*D
> 
> Kurt never really had the best Mania matches now that I think about it.



I dig the Michaels WM 21 match, but I think I have to agree, the Jannetty SD match is better. Zeppers you need to get on that shit PRONTO. You shan't be dissapointed 

Random fact that has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING: apparently Angle/Michaels WM 21 is Bobby Heenans favorite match, he called Michaels after watching the event live and said "Shawn, I got no reason to blow smoke up your ass, I just had to tell you, that match you had with Kurt is the greatest thing I've ever seen". I miss Bobby, I wish we could clone 1987 Bobby Heenan and bring him back as a manager, then clone 1991 Bobby and have him as the color guy, the world would be a lot better place with more Bobby Heenan.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Speaking of Vince outshining Kurt, is it safe to say the guy puts on some of the best matches at Mania? *Call me crazy but I enjoyed every moment of that match with Hogan.*


No reason to call you crazy since that match is awesome.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Michael's 2000s mania matches arent that bad if bad at all tbh, mania 21 would be the only bad one as Murderface said. But just look who he was in there with
> 
> I also agree that Vengeance is even worse


I wasn't trying to say that they're bad, just wondering how well they'll hold up. Always had a soft spot for the Flair match but I'm almost scared to watch it again because I've seen it go down for so many people over the years. I remember the Jericho match being great even though Shawn blows off back work in that one and Y2J was clearly the better guy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jericho/HBK still rules the world IMO, fucking love that match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

William Murderface said:


> No reason to call you crazy since that match is awesome.


Lol, nah it's just that when I first joined I remember people hating Vince/Hogan and Vince/HBL. Then again, that was before I discovered this section (Y)

Ok, so after hearing the talk about JBL/Rey JD '06 a few pages back, I decided to check it out myself. The match is really good but it's no JBL/Eddie. Not like you can compare the two anyway. But JBL does a really good job of being a Jelly Belly Loser (kudos to that dude for that sign) and Rey plays a good under dog. The match is paced really well and has a nice finish. I just found that it was missing something to make it something special. Still a great match. ***1/2


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Michaels 2000 mania matches 

vs Jericho: ****
vs HHH vs Benoit: ****3/4 
vs Angle: ***1/2
vs Vince: ***3/4 
vs Cena: ****1/4 
vs Flair: ****
vs Taker I: *****
vs Taker II: ****1/2 

not a bad resume tbh, I would put it over his 90s matches easily.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Angle/Mysterio/Orton match should have been given more time IMO.


Despite my love for Rey, I've never seen his crowning achievement match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Meh it's 9 minutes of guys hitting finishers.

Ok, so I was looking for a link for Tajiri/Regal and I came across an upload by WWE. Apparently, they uploaded an entire episode of SD from 2001. At the start they showed a brawl between Rock and Jericho. So it had me feeling to watch their match. The problem is, i can't remember which match was their good match. Did they even have a good one?

EDIT: And it's the wrong Tajiri/Regal match :lmao

Anyway, seeing Regal in that plain, all red attire reminds me of Bryan


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I dont think any Tajiri/Regal matches are bad tbh


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

You guys are gonna get your ankles broke for all this :angle2 bashing! Oh it's true!! It's DAMN TRUE!!!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

William Murderface said:


> It's a toss up between Angle/Benoit & Angle/Kane for me.


Angle/Benoit would be second place after Angle/HBK for me. Although I haven't seen Angle/Brock in a long time and it might either hold up and be up there, or go down. My adoration for their SummerSlam and Ironman matches will stay put, though.



bigbuxxx said:


> Despite my love for Rey, I've never seen his crowning achievement match.


You should check it out, it's not even 10 minutes. And while you're at it, look for the singles match between Rey and Orton on Smackdown right after WM. It's much better and one of the best TV matches ever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Meh it's 9 minutes of guys hitting finishers.
> 
> Ok, so I was looking for a link for Tajiri/Regal and I came across an upload by WWE. Apparently, they uploaded an entire episode of SD from 2001. At the start they showed a brawl between Rock and Jericho. So it had me feeling to watch their match. The problem is, i can't remember which match was their good match. Did they even have a good one?
> 
> ...


You talking about Jericho/Rock? If so, fuck yeah, No Mercy 2001 and esp Royal Rumble 2002. Both great IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Smackdown 4-way between Show/Ziggler/McIntyre/Cody was awesome, as expected with the talent involved. It's literally just Show DECIMATING everyone and everything in his path for the first 8-9 minutes, it's just a total blast to watch. The finish has Ziggler pulling some sneakyness and stealing a pinfall on Cody, which I loved. Forgot how much it used to annoy me that Cody didn't wear knee pads. He just looks like a guy in underwear wearing wrestling boots :lmao. Really good recommendation Hayley, thanks (Y). ***1/2

Also rewatched Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls. Still a near flawless match, #3 for MotY 2013 on my list. The final fall just makes me laugh every time I see it, Cesaro just isn't human ****1/2.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Gonna watch CM Punk vs James Gibson vs Samoa Joe vs Christoper Daniels in a 4way elimination match for the ROH title.

#TheRealSummerOfPunk


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Also rewatched Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls. Still a near flawless match, #3 for MotY 2013 on my list. The final fall just makes me laugh every time I see it, Cesaro just isn't human ****1/2.


Watched this for like the fifth time a couple nights ago. It's a good match. I don't think it holds a candle to the ArRIVAL match though.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

How are 

- Benoit/Jericho/Edge vs Batista/Orton/Flair Six-man Elimination
- both Edge/Jericho vs Batist/Flair tag matches
- Jericho vs Orton
- Jericho vs Edge

all from RAW in 2004? Was checking out what's coming up next for Jericho and those matches look interesting.

(sry for basically writing about Jericho only)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't remember Jericho/Edge vs Flair/Batista but I do remember two matches with Orton in Flair's place from June and they are both pretty good.

Jericho vs Orton and the six man elimination are excellent. Can't comment on Jericho vs Edge because they've had so many matches and I don't specifically remember all of them. They do have a solid match on the first Raw of 2005, though.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I initially thought Michaels/Angle WM was great while their Vengeance match was really good.
Haven't seen either match since.

Will probably watch Benoit/Angle from Backlash & Judgement Day in the near future. I've seen their WM, Unforgiven & RR matches already.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho/Edge from 2004 was good, as is their match on the first RAW of 2005. But please, if you love your life, stay away from their other matches in 2005. Really really dull and they both just killed time until the finish. I love them both, but I don't think they had chemistry at all. The other Jericho matches on that list rule. Nearly everything from RAW in 2004 is worth seeing.

Jericho and Rock also had a really good match on RAW in 2001 for the WCW title.

I love Shawn Michaels, but the more that I watch his 2002-2010 run, the less I enjoy his work. He wasn't bad (heck, he was largely good). But you can't use the resilience story for every single match, and acting loopy and tired all the time doesn't always equate to quality selling. On top of that, his offense was largely uninteresting and weak. Did he ever figure out how to properly put on submissions? His 2007-2008 was incredible and you can't take that away from Shawn.

Angle/Michaels from Vengeance was so bad that I nearly vomited out my Gail Kim Chee sandwich right then and there in the presence of Victoria. That match dragged so much that I legitimately did not understand what was the point of it even existing. Vengeance 2005 used to be my favorite PPV of 2005 (and one of my favorite PPVs of the past ten years), but I'm afraid that the show will not hold up at all. Hopefully the opener still rules. Batista/HHH should be a classic, but I really don't understand why their feud dragged on for six months when they should have had the HIAC match at Backlash. Initially their segments together ruled, but while going through the month of May, every show seems to open up with a HHH promo where he keeps repeating himself, and then closes with Batista beating up Triple H. It gets very boring after six months of the same things, and Batista went over way too much for my liking. RAW in general though so far in 2005 has ruled. Awaiting for :cena3 to ruin it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Meh it's 9 minutes of guys hitting finishers.
> 
> Ok, so I was looking for a link for Tajiri/Regal and I came across an upload by WWE. Apparently, they uploaded an entire episode of SD from 2001. At the start they showed a brawl between Rock and Jericho. So it had me feeling to watch their match. The problem is, i can't remember which match was their good match. Did they even have a good one?
> 
> ...


Jericho was like Rock's best opponent that wasn't Mick Foley. All their matches are quite stellar. It's No Mercy 2001 & Royal Rumble 2002 that are the top prizes.

and it was after training w/Regal when Danielson started wearing the Regal maroon gear. Regal gave it to him after their time together.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Smackdown 4-way between Show/Ziggler/McIntyre/Cody was awesome, as expected with the talent involved. It's literally just Show DECIMATING everyone and everything in his path for the first 8-9 minutes, it's just a total blast to watch. The finish has Ziggler pulling some sneakyness and stealing a pinfall on Cody, which I loved. Forgot how much it used to annoy me that Cody didn't wear knee pads. He just looks like a guy in underwear wearing wrestling boots :lmao. Really good recommendation Hayley, thanks (Y). ***1/2
> 
> Also rewatched Zayn/Cesaro 2/3 Falls. Still a near flawless match, #3 for MotY 2013 on my list. The final fall just makes me laugh every time I see it, Cesaro just isn't human ****1/2.


(Y)

What did you have as #1 & #2, respectively, for 2013? Assuming this may have only been WWE oriented, that is or nah?

------------

Jericho vs Edge from RAW in 2004 is bad. Watch the Evolution tags. Those were always worth the time that year. Don't recall Orton vs Jericho, but it's 2004 so it should be at least "good".


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

All this talk is making me want to watch some Kurt Angle. Going to watch WM 21 and Vengeance 2005 to start. Haven't seen Vengeance match since the first time. I love the WM match on my last watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jericho was like Rock's best opponent that wasn't Mick Foley. All their matches are quite stellar. It's No Mercy 2001 & Royal Rumble 2002 that are the top prizes.
> 
> and it was after training w/Regal when Danielson started wearing the Regal maroon gear. Regal gave it to him after their time together.
> 
> ...


1. Brock vs Punk SS 
2. Punk vs Taker WM
3. Cesaro vs Zayn 2/3 Falls
4. Ishii vs Shibata G1 Climax (only match from Japan I saw and it ruled)
5. Punk vs Cena Raw
6. Danielson vs Cena SS
7. Cesaro vs Regal NXT
8. Christian vs ADR SS (my sleeper favorite, probably watched it 7 times)
9. Ziggler vs ADR Payback
10. Shield vs Rhodes Bros Battleground

That's how the top 10 of 2013 shaped up for me. What a year, match quality wise of course not the writing. There are incredible matches like Henry/Cena, Danielson/Rollins, Shield vs Hell No/Kofi, Danielson/Cesaro, and Danielson/Orton December Raw that didn't even make my top 10, when they would have just about any other year. I suppose that's what happens when you give the ball to talented guys like the Shield, Danielson, and Cesaro and let them run with it.

For anyone that hasn't had a recent viewing, or shit even if you had, go watch Christian and ADR put on a complete clinic at SS. That's one of those matches that gets better, and better, and better, with each and every viewing. I'm ready to call it ADRs best match, ahead of Payback with Ziggler. It's one of the most perfectly paced matches you are likely to find. Short enough that it never drags, long enough that they are able to accomplish everything they set out to.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Daniel Bryan was the WOTY of 2013, literally a machine, spewing out ***+ matches on a weekly basis. Punk may have had three stunning matches on RAW against Cena, WM against Taker and SS against Lesnar but I'd take a consistent show over a one match show and further so, Bryan over Punk.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

you have ADR/Ziggler PB WAY too low imo cjack, that match is #4 of the year behind your top 3 

besides the good but not MOTYC worthy Christian/ADR being on their, I agree with the list


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ziggler/Del Rio is one of the best things this company has done in 15 minutes. It's a long shot, but I would love for another double turn to happen at Payback. This time with Sheamus and Cesaro. But Ziggler/Del Rio. Very few wrestlers on this planet could wrestle that match. And then Punk/Jericho coming right after. What an all-time great one-two punch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> 1. Brock vs Punk SS
> 2. Punk vs Taker WM
> 3. Cesaro vs Zayn 2/3 Falls
> 4. Ishii vs Shibata G1 Climax (only match from Japan I saw and it ruled)
> ...


Ahhhh yes. Punker vs Lesnar. Should have figured. Same here. I wouldn't know what my top ten is b/c I didn't bother to make one for last year. I really should have but wow, it's tough when I loved a mega ton out there. Even if it mostly is just from two promotions, specifically, but still. Powerhouses. Here's a rough look of what it pretty much is:

1) CM Punker vs Brock Lesnar - WWE: SummerSlam
Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - WWE: SummerSlam
Danielson vs John Cena - WWE: SummerSlam
Sami Zayn vs Antonio Cesaro - WWE: NXT 2/3 Falls
Togi Makabe vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW: G1 Climax 23 Night Four
Tomohiro Ishii vs Katsuyori Shibata - NJPW: G1 Climax 23 Night Four
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs Kazuchika Okada - NJPW: Invasion Attack
Shinsuke Nakamura vs Kota Ibushi - G1 Climax 23 Night Four
Shinsuke Nakamura vs Kazushi Sakuraba - NJPW: Wrestle Kingdom VII
Sami Callihan vs Adam Cole - PWG: Is Your Body Ready? (60 Minute Iron Man)

I really need to make a top 100 b/c leaving off something like Undertaker vs CM Punk, Cesaro vs Regal, or anything involving the Shield makes me feel dirty. Even if all of this is purely off the top of my head and isn't anything locked down. And then there aren't even the Naito vs Tanaka series which I absolutely died for. Or Devitt vs Shelley Best of Super Juniors Finals. Or Chikara Grand Championship matches where Eddie Kingston was slaying w/phenomenal matches. Jesus christ 2013. It's obvious at what ties for Show of the Year last year too. August of 2013 = :done


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Has there ever been any great limb work matches in the WWF/E? I'm serious when I say I can't think of any. I mean matches that payoff. Even matches like KENTA vs. Bryan @ GBH. Matches like Okada vs. Tanahashi from Invasion Attack are the kind of matches I really mean though. I guess the main event of WM 30 might be one but I don't remember much of it.

Finished Angle/HBK from WM. omg 5* you guys! Some other forum jumped down my throat when I listed a bunch of matches > that and put up Cena/Punk from MitB. :fpalm I don't dislike it like most here but I don't think it's all time great either.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ziggler/Del Rio is one of the best things this company has done in 15 minutes. It's a long shot, but I would love for another double turn to happen at Payback. This time with Sheamus and Cesaro. But Ziggler/Del Rio. Very few wrestlers on this planet could wrestle that match. And then Punk/Jericho coming right after. What an all-time great one-two punch.


I've been thinking of this booking decision in my head and I guess I'd like to see if any of you think it would work.


As much as I love the Shield as a unit, I think we are getting closer and closer to the point of them breaking off, and this Evolution feud could be a perfect way to do it. In the upcoming Elimination match, have Reigns turn on Rollins and Ambrose and join Evolution and become the new 4th member. Reigns is getting hotter and hotter as a face, I think now would be the perfect time to pull the switch. He has the perfect look for Evolution, he can still be given time to mature and grow my continuing to work tags with the other members and occasionally branching out on his own to refine his singles skills. Rollins and Ambrose are already superb baby face workers, this would give them a slight bump up the ladder and allow them to either continue as a tag team or part ways and to work their way up the baby face food chain.

Mostly, I just think Reigns will garner more success if he turns fully heel then does the switch to face a year to two down the road, ala his idol the Rock. The IWC has already turned on this guy and he hasn't even gotten his singles push yet. How much heat would it be if he double crossed the IWC darlings Rollins and Ambrose and sided with the dreaded Evolution? You then have a ready made feud with either Seth or Dean whenever you choose to pursue it, and it also gets Rollins his big chance to spread his wings and succeed as a face, which I think is his true calling. He's just too damn good in the ring to outright hate, and Reigns isn't good enough yet for his ring work to keep him from getting real, honest to goodness, heel heat.

Go ahead and tell me why I'm an idiot, I'm sure I haven't thought this through well enough


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Has there ever been any great limb work matches in the WWF/E? I'm serious when I say I can't think of any. I mean matches that payoff. Even matches like KENTA vs. Bryan @ GBH. Matches like Okada vs. Tanahashi from Invasion Attack are the kind of matches I really mean though. I guess the main event of WM 30 might be one but I don't remember much of it.
> 
> Finished Angle/HBK from WM. omg 5* you guys! Some other forum jumped down my throat when I listed a bunch of matches > that and put up Cena/Punk from MitB. :fpalm I don't dislike it like most here but I don't think it's all time great either.


Angle/Taker NWO 2006 has some GREAT limb work.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Ahhhh yes. Punker vs Lesnar. Should have figured. Same here. I wouldn't know what my top ten is b/c I didn't bother to make one for last year. I really should have but wow, it's tough when I loved a mega ton out there. Even if it mostly is just from two promotions, specifically, but still. Powerhouses. Here's a rough look of what it pretty much is:
> 
> 1) CM Punker vs Brock Lesnar - WWE: SummerSlam
> Christian vs Alberto Del Rio - WWE: SummerSlam
> ...



I can't believe you were actually there to see it live too. Talk about being in the right place at the right time, you got to witness honest to goodness MAGIC up close and personal. That doesn't happen very often. I can't think of a show the last 5 years I'd rather have been at (MitB 2011 being the only possible exception).

Looks like I good some good stuff from Japan to check out now. I've never seen a single Nakamura or Okada match, I think I know where to start now


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

ahhh yes. I was actually going to watch that to in my spurt of Angle today.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A leg is a limb. Why aren't you watching Sheamus/Morrison TLC?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was at SummerSlam last year too :mark:

(And going again this year. Brock/Cesaro PLZ. )


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

bigbuxxx said:


> Has there ever been any great limb work matches in the WWF/E? I'm serious when I say I can't think of any. I mean matches that payoff. Even matches like KENTA vs. Bryan @ GBH. Matches like Okada vs. Tanahashi from Invasion Attack are the kind of matches I really mean though. I guess the main event of WM 30 might be one but I don't remember much of it.
> 
> Finished Angle/HBK from WM. omg 5* you guys! Some other forum jumped down my throat when I listed a bunch of matches > that and put up Cena/Punk from MitB. :fpalm I don't dislike it like most here but I don't think it's all time great either.



Sorry for the double post but it's necessary. This match features some of the greatest limb work and selling of said limb work you are likely ever to see: Matt Hardy vs Finlay SD 6/22/07 http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2cnb7_smackdown-22-06-07-matt-hardy-vs-fi_sport


Then check out Sheamus/JoMo TLC 2010. Both are SUBLIME.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We are all in agreement that MNM ruled, right?


Heck yes. I still want to see most of their 2005 run.



bigbuxxx said:


> Despite my love for Rey, I've never seen his crowning achievement match.


Might be the worst match of his career anyway. Either that or cage on the first SD of 06 tagging with Batista against MNM.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Shawn vs Triple H Taboo Tuesday 04 featured (oddly enough) a pretty convincing dissection of Shawn's leg. Overall, the match is judged on the limb work and selling as those were the only redeemable qualities of it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Shawn vs Triple H Taboo Tuesday 04 featured (oddly enough) a pretty convincing dissection of Shawn's leg. Overall, the match is judged on the limb work and selling as those were the only redeemable qualities of it.



That shouldn't count as selling cause Shawn was legit injured, his whole knee was tore up he could hardly walk backstage. He just put a brace on and tightened it up super tight to make it through that match. It does make him one tough SOB though, I think his ACL an MCL were both torn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Has there ever been any great limb work matches in the WWF/E? I'm serious when I say I can't think of any. I mean matches that payoff. Even matches like KENTA vs. Bryan @ GBH. Matches like Okada vs. Tanahashi from Invasion Attack are the kind of matches I really mean though. I guess the main event of WM 30 might be one but I don't remember much of it.


Finlay vs Matt Hardy 6/22/07. I'd call out Danielson vs Orton from Feb this year counts too. Danielson picks apart at Orton's knee for the vast majority and Orton does the same to Danielson's hand/arm in the latter portion.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't believe you were actually there to see it live too. Talk about being in the right place at the right time, you got to witness honest to goodness MAGIC up close and personal. That doesn't happen very often. I can't think of a show the last 5 years I'd rather have been at (MitB 2011 being the only possible exception).
> 
> Looks like I good some good stuff from Japan to check out now. I've never seen a single Nakamura or Okada match, I think I know where to start now


Will always be as vivid as possible. Mostly the part where Brock hits the double stomp onto Punk while snapping the wood in two. The height that man can leap. Sweet jesus.

Nakamura tends to be a favorite for those who continue to flock to the current New Japan product. Well, Okada too. But def Nakamura has an appeal w/a lot of folk. I thought he always had it, but who am I to complain that once he starts showing off his proverbial "swag" in matches, it gets him universal love. He's a swell man.

While it isn't Nakamura - it's Okada - watch this right now and just witness something fierce. My pick for most underrated last year. Even over Christian vs Del Rio, b/c that gets some sort of praise. Even if it's not on the level it seems myself & now you too, have it on. This is a rematch from June, but despite not seeing that (it's also on youtube, if that helps) you should be able to possible get sucked right into this. It's perfect.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Meltzer rated Okada vs. Makabe 5*? I don't think so.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't know; don't care. Believe it's just the youtube channel name for matches the uploader loves.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I looked for my 2013 list but couldnt find it :lol (found some of my old posts and you would have thought I was illiterate )

Anyways remember my top 5 looking like :

Punk/Lesnar
Ziggler/ADR
Cena/Punk
Cena/Bryan
Cesaro/Bryan

But enough of 2013, why dont I remember Cesaro/Cena happening or seeing it ?


Edit: Orton/Bryan Feb is Orton's best match in YEARS, terrfic


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Just saying it's misleading to somebody who hasn't watched any puro. This won't be the best of the best although I do see you put it as your best from 2013.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

skins Cena vs Cesaro happened leading up towards Elimination Chamber this year. If you haven't seen it, do so soon. It's gold.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How on earth did none of the Okada/Tanahashi matches make that list? I am in shock!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Probably b/c a few of them _actually _did get five snowflakes. Thus eliminating themselves from the criteria of that youtube uploader's selection.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually havent seen it was sticking w/ WWE exclusivly, I have seen Ishii vs Shibata and a few other Nakamuna matches over there. Need to broaden my horzions 

Is there just one Cena/Cesaro or is it a Raw/SD ordeal ?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena/Rollins is another great TV match, have yet to see Cena/Cesaro, wonder how it matches up to the former.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's only been the one match on RAW.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There's only one Cesaro vs Cena and that's from the final Raw before Elimination Chamber.

Thinking about it, February this year was pretty good for matches in WWE.

Orton vs Bryan - Raw 3/2
Bryan vs Christian - Raw ?/2
Orton vs Cena - Raw 10/2
Orton vs Cesaro - Smackdown 14/2
Cena vs Cesaro - Raw 17/2
Orton vs Sheamus - Raw 17/2
Wyatts vs Shield - EC
Elimination Chamber - EC

And there's probably another match or two that I've forgot to mention.

@funnyfaces: Before I forget this, I gotta say I liked Batista's booking against HHH in their feud. Specially after Orton couldn't get any retribution, watching Batista destroy what's left of Evolution is pretty satisfying after HHH used his pet projects to stay on top of Raw for years. He failed to realize the Animal he unleashed was too much for him to handle once he was let loose. That's Booking 101 on how to create a star. People can say what they want about Batista but his rise is one of the most organic there has ever been.

EDIT: Holy fuck, I actually forgot all about my MOTY for that February list. (Cesaro/Zayn)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Just coming to agree that Cena/Cesaro was thrilling to watch. Also came in to say that I'm starting GAB 1989. Flair/Funk :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Cesaro/Cena is raw MOTY for me so far. DAT SUPERPLEX! 

****


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Everyone needs to watch the ROH/NJPW War of the worlds show, I just finished it and damn that show was fucking awesome. The only stain on the show was the meh Liger/Cole match, but that wasn't BAD, but for a ROH world title match I expected more, I think Liger just might be too old at this point. However, Steen/Nakamura, Okada/Elgin/Styles, and young bucks/red dragon were all SUPERB, with the latter being ****1/2 and my #3 MOTY at this point behind Cesaro/Zayn and Shield/Wyatts.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Need some love for KUSHIDA vs. Lethal. Only match I didn't match was that tag.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah Kushida/Lethal was pretty good too, not on the level of the three I listed but a solid #4 MOTN

which tag are we talking about here?


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

Young Bucks vs. guys i will never watch.


----------



## bigbuxxx (May 28, 2011)

I liked Vengeance more than WM. Let the hate commence . I would rate WM higher though because that finish at Vengeance is the worst thing I've ever seen.

My bad for multi-post. Thought somebody would post in the 6 minutes that I didn't.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Flair/Funk GAB is pretty good, but I still prefer the I Quit. I really love how you can have an all out war that mainly consists of punches/brawling and it be better than so many gimmick matches that rely on weapons/spots etc. That's a tribute to Flair and Funk's greatness. Flair in the post match interview with the mist and blood in his hair :lmao :lmao

In regards to the ROH/NJPW PPV: I watched it live and it was one of the best PPVs I've seen from top to bottom in a long time. It was the first time I had ever seen Steen/Nakamura/Okada/Cole, and I wasn't disappointed. I liked seeing Steen work as a face. I was down with Liger/Cole, but then after the match Liger hopped over the top rope from the ring to the floor after he had just been selling his knee (from Cole working it over). Main event was really, really good. The tag title match was great, and I recommend that for everyone that has only seen Luke Gallows wrestle as Festus or Doc in TNA. The dude can really work, and certainly shined in that match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> @funnyfaces: Before I forget this, I gotta say I liked Batista's booking against HHH in their feud. Specially after Orton couldn't get any retribution, watching Batista destroy what's left of Evolution is pretty satisfying after HHH used his pet projects to stay on top of Raw for years. He failed to realize the Animal he unleashed was too much for him to handle once he was let loose. That's Booking 101 on how to create a star. People can say what they want about Batista but his rise is one of the most organic there has ever been.


Don't get me wrong. As of right now, it's my favorite feud of 2005 and I love how good both guys were in their segments. But considering that Batista left for Smackdown soon after and didn't return to RAW until 2008, I kinda wanted to see him face someone else instead of HHH for the third time. I know he had that match against Edge after the Gold Rush tournament, but that wasn't really a feud and it was really more so a segment that led to HHH returning. And considering how stacked the roster was at the time, Batista had a lot of options for another title match. 

Christian and Muhammad Hassan were both super hot at the time, but both of them (especially Christian) were booked to be weaker than they should have been. Chris Jericho was going through a slow-burn heel turn and instead of having Cena be the initiator of his heel turn, I think the more popular Batista would have worked better. A full on story with Edge would have been cool, especially with the MITB dynamic, and it would have been a cool way to reintroduce Matt Hardy. And finally, Batista wrestling another main event face that puts him over would have been cool as well. Shawn Michaels specifically would be perfect, and even then it could act as another factor that led to HIS heel turn. Ultimately, I liked what occurred anyways but good can turn to better. Tis a shame that Orton had shoulder surgery too because they had a feud waiting for them as well. Now granted, all of those matches would have probably been poor, but unlike 2014, the fans couldn't care less about match quality considering how over Batista was.

Do people here still dislike One Night Stand 2005? I know that two of the matches on that show were disappointing, but other than that, it was a super fun show. Sometimes you just have to ditch the Cal Scale and enjoy the show for what it is.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did anyone else see that Christian is gonna be a part of the preshow panel for NXT Takeover tomorrow night? This has to be the first appearance I've seen him make in months. He was part of a picture on wwe.com with Paul Heyman & Cesaro so I kinda freaked out for a second, thinking they were gonna have a match.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Do people here still dislike One Night Stand 2005? I know that two of the matches on that show were disappointing, but other than that, it was a super fun show. Sometimes you just have to ditch the Cal Scale and enjoy the show for what it is.


Tanaka/Awesome was great, Jericho/Storm was ok, don't remember Eddie/Benoit at all and the rest was good.
Honestly it was more about the show then the individual matches if that makes any sense.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Believe it or not I also got love for that ROH show. Best anything ROH I've seen in a long, long time. I'm not high or Lethal/Kushida as most are and I actually enjoyed Cole/Liger for what it was. It's Adam fucking Cole (babay!), it's Jushin fucking Thunder fucking Liger! They could have exchanged sleeper holds and I would have been happy. 

Triple threat main event was fun and it was nice to see Elgin actually sell the leg work a bit, for example, when he hit the tombstone. Nakamura/Steen was the match I was most excited for and it sort of let me down tbh. Still enjoyed it but just fell a little below expectations. Post-math stuff was 5 stars though lol.

Tanahashi/Bennett was good as well and how bout dat right there Bucks vs reDRagon? I made a post in the other section the other day saying that Bucks are the only ones who can get away with putting on a no selling spotfest. There's just something about their matches that's different. It's like when they do a million superkicks, it's special. Anyone else, it's fucking retarded. They've definitely honed their own style.

And to bring this back to WWE section talk, ah fuck WWE talk, I'm just glad ROH finally put on a good show lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

bigbuxxx said:


> Has there ever been any great limb work matches in the WWF/E? I'm serious when I say I can't think of any. I mean matches that payoff. Even matches like KENTA vs. Bryan @ GBH. Matches like Okada vs. Tanahashi from Invasion Attack are the kind of matches I really mean though. I guess the main event of WM 30 might be one but I don't remember much of it.


Christian/Swagger ECW 2/24/09.

Christian produces one of the best selling performances you'll ever see in that one.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Everyone needs to watch the ROH/NJPW War of the worlds show, I just finished it and damn that show was fucking awesome. The only stain on the show was the meh Liger/Cole match, but that wasn't BAD, but for a ROH world title match I expected more, I think Liger just might be too old at this point. However, Steen/Nakamura, Okada/Elgin/Styles, and young bucks/red dragon were all SUPERB, with the latter being ****1/2 and my #3 MOTY at this point behind Cesaro/Zayn and Shield/Wyatts.


I asked where I could find it the night after the show but no response haha, got a link?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Don't get me wrong. As of right now, it's my favorite feud of 2005 and I love how good both guys were in their segments. But considering that Batista left for Smackdown soon after and didn't return to RAW until 2008, I kinda wanted to see him face someone else instead of HHH for the third time. I know he had that match against Edge after the Gold Rush tournament, but that wasn't really a feud and it was really more so a segment that led to HHH returning. And considering how stacked the roster was at the time, Batista had a lot of options for another title match.
> 
> Christian and Muhammad Hassan were both super hot at the time, but both of them (especially Christian) were booked to be weaker than they should have been. Chris Jericho was going through a slow-burn heel turn and instead of having Cena be the initiator of his heel turn, I think the more popular Batista would have worked better. A full on story with Edge would have been cool, especially with the MITB dynamic, and it would have been a cool way to reintroduce Matt Hardy. And finally, Batista wrestling another main event face that puts him over would have been cool as well. Shawn Michaels specifically would be perfect, and even then it could act as another factor that led to HIS heel turn. Ultimately, I liked what occurred anyways but good can turn to better. Tis a shame that Orton had shoulder surgery too because they had a feud waiting for them as well. Now granted, all of those matches would have probably been poor, but unlike 2014, the fans couldn't care less about match quality considering how over Batista was.
> 
> Do people here still dislike One Night Stand 2005? I know that two of the matches on that show were disappointing, but other than that, it was a super fun show. Sometimes you just have to ditch the Cal Scale and enjoy the show for what it is.


Yeah, the draft kind of made the road to WM pointless with all this focus on where he would go. But still, I'm not really all that bothered about the feuds that didn't happen because some of them like Jericho, Edge & HBK all happened later on when Batista's ring work improved. I think Benoit should've won the Gold Rush Tournament, though. Then he would've put Batista over in a quality match and could've followed it with a handshake.

Other than that, I wish we had seen Batista vs Angle. They wrestled for about 2 minutes weeks before Vengeance then HHH and HBK showed up and it became a tag match. Match couldn't happen in 2006 because of injuries, so 2005 was the right time for it.

I think you're also underestimating Cena's overness at that point. The fans very much like him up until that summer, then after SummerSlam, they slowly start turning on him until it goes full blown and the boos are clear as day when he feuds with Angle.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> Christian/Swagger ECW 2/24/09.
> 
> Christian produces one of the best selling performances you'll ever see in that one.


Their series of matches were awesome.
Looking at Swagger since then i can't believe that was the same wrestler from 2009.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

RatedR10 said:


> I asked where I could find it the night after the show but no response haha, got a link?


Torrents.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

DUDE ROH shows are on watchwrestlingdotnet

They have War of the Worlds 2014.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Cesaro/Sheamus (Main Event 5/13/14) ***1/2
IMO their best match to date, and the best midcard title feud WWE's had in forever.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Both (maybe there were more than two but I'm talking about Main Event and SmackDown) Cesaro/Sheamus matches last year smoke that match imo. It started well with some meaty strike exchanges and I dug the stuff with Heyman coaching Cesaro on the outside but after that they didn't do a whole lot for me. The back and forth stuff felt lacking and uninspired, although none of it was actively bad. Definitely felt like they were holding back their best stuff for this Sunday's PPV match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, if you are wondering if it ever happened in wrestling history, well your answer is that it did. What I mean is that there was a match on RAW once that ended during the commercial without a restart: Chris Benoit vs. Snitsky (6/6/05). A surreal sight that answered a question that wrestling fans have always wondered.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

I randomly typed on youtube Sting vs Ricky Steamboat to see if they every faced and who the crowd rooted for, anw this match popped






not a classic or anything, but definitely worth a watch, even Sherri's work on the ringside was pretty good.***3/4


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Where can I watch the Hunter/Nash stuff after Summer of Punk? Anyone have a link?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Saw a post related to MNM few pages back and got me thinking- what are everyone's top 10 favorite tag teams since the brand split?

Londrick has to be #1 right? Only counting teams that lasted a decent time. There's Haas/Benjamin, Rollins/Reigns, MNM, BookDust. I'll have to think a while before making a list :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Everyone needs to watch the ROH/NJPW War of the worlds show, I just finished it and damn that show was fucking awesome. The only stain on the show was the meh Liger/Cole match, but that wasn't BAD, but for a ROH world title match I expected more, I think Liger just might be too old at this point. However, Steen/Nakamura, Okada/Elgin/Styles, and young bucks/red dragon were all SUPERB, with the latter being ****1/2 and my #3 MOTY at this point behind Cesaro/Zayn and Shield/Wyatts.


Sounds like it must have been your first Young Bucks match then. They've sneezed and put on better matches than that decent carryjob vs reDRagon.

Liger's match > more than half that card.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah Bucks vs reDragon was fun, but I rated it ***3/4. Might go up to **** but wouldn't put it at #3 on a MOTY list anyway. WWE's probably had close to 7-8 matches that could be said to be better


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Likely uncommon to rate Punk/Bryan MITB over OTL but I have it right there at **** and the latter at ***1/2.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Likely uncommon to rate Punk/Bryan MITB over OTL but I have it right there at **** and the latter at ***1/2.


OTL is a work of art IMO. Havn't seen MITB since it aired, but i do remember the AJ stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Yeah Bucks vs reDragon was fun, but I rated it ***3/4. Might go up to **** but wouldn't put it at #3 on a MOTY list anyway. WWE's probably had close to 7-8 matches that could be said to be better


Bucks are always a blast, but after what I was hearing I thought the match was going to be MADNESS or something. It was pretty standard minus the great 450/guillotine spot. Toss in O'Reilly being on his off side for me & it wasn't anything I need to see again any time soon.

what really needs to be talked about here is the entertainment value of Steen vs Nakamura being through the roof.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Likely uncommon to rate Punk/Bryan MITB over OTL but I have it right there at **** and the latter at ***1/2.


MITB >

I'm usually the big advocate of this opinion, so I support.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pretty good match, but obviously guess what happens.................inter-fucking-ference.

I wish Sting/Bret could have had a more proper feud it wrote itself with the Sharpshooter/Deathlock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can't stand their junk from Halloween Havoc and I've been wanting to continue my project if Bret had a single good match in WCW. _(I'm in October of 1998 atm and the answer is no; minus needing to see a Benoit match a a few months prior)_ I should watch after I get some lucha in me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I can't stand their junk from Halloween Havoc and I've been wanting to continue my project if Bret had a single good match in WCW. _(I'm in October of 1998 atm and the answer is no; minus needing to see a Benoit match a a few months prior)_ I should watch after I get some lucha in me.


Yeah, im a big fan of this one from '98.

x1lcti2


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

NXT Takeover tonight is pretty hype. It amazes me that they can create more buzz for their developmental shows than they can for the PPV's. I won't be able to watch since I'm pretty busy until next weekend but I am looking forward to both it and also Payback on Sunday but I'm guessing that's an unpopular opinion. Shield/Evo should be great, Paige/Fox should be great, Cesaro/Seamus should be great, Wyatt/Cena should finally be over and we'll get an answer about the title situation...I hope. Plenty to look forward to, I just hope we get Bryan back soon. Once we get Payback and Battleground out of the way things will pick up again like they always do but for being in the post Mania lull, I'm enjoying things for the most part, probably because I don't have enough time to over analyse the hell out of everything.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> NXT Takeover tonight is pretty hype. It amazes me that they can create more buzz for their developmental shows than they can for the PPV's. I won't be able to watch since I'm pretty busy until next weekend but I am looking forward to both it and also Payback on Sunday but I'm guessing that's an unpopular opinion. Shield/Evo should be great, Paige/Fox should be great, Cesaro/Seamus should be great, Wyatt/Cena should finally be over and we'll get an answer about the title situation...I hope. Plenty to look forward to, I just hope we get Bryan back soon. Once we get Payback and Battleground out of the way things will pick up again like they always do but for being in the post Mania lull, I'm enjoying things for the most part, probably because I don't have enough time to over analyse the hell out of everything.


What's the card look like for Takeover? I can't speak to that event since I haven't watched much NXT lately, but for Arrival, they made it seem like a HUGE deal, and opening the show with Cesaro/Zayn certainly helped. That whole event just felt like a big success. I know they can't keep doing it in perpetuity, but Cesaro/Zayn is the one match up right now I feel like I could see 100 times and it wouldn't get old. Their chemistry is just beyond belief. If you want to see something funny, check out the Chris Hero shoot interview when he talks about being backstage with Heyman during their 2/3 Falls match last august. Hero and Heyman were having a nice little chat near the monitor, when all of the sudden Zayn set up for his through the ropes tornado DDT. Paul stopped mid sentence and just had his eyes glued on the monitor from then on, and his jaw just dropped when he saw the finish. As soon as it was over, Heyman quickly excused himself from Chris and went to Gorilla to shake both guys hands and sing their praises to anyone who would listen. It's stories like this me that make me really love Heyman, deep down he is still such a fan of real wrestling.

Payback should be okay but it's not something I'm overly excited about, either. I'll certainly watch it though. Perks of having the Network and all that jazz. I definitely wouldn't be shelling out $60 for this even if I didn't have it. Lazy ass booking.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Adrian Neville vs Tyson Kidd for the NXT title
Tyler Breeze vs Sami Zayn for #1 contender 
Kalisto/El Local vs Ascension for the NXT tag titles
Natalya vs Charlotte for the NXT Women's title
Adam Rose vs Camacho

this is the card, if I remember correctly


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Hyped as expected for Takeover but count me among those anticipating Payback too.

Every match has a chance to range from decent to great and could be a surprise hit. Surprisingly, Wyatt vs Cena could also end up being the worst match on the card, all depends on how they use the stipulation.

BNB/RVD could be good, Sheamus/Cesaro will be great, Rusev/Big E should be a fun hoss fight, Paige/Alicia should be good, Cena/Wyatt will be good or bad, Shield/Evo will be great and curious to see what happens with Bryan/Steph/Brie/The Demon Kane.

Looks like a show to look forward to for me :draper2


----------



## BarneyArmy (Apr 18, 2013)

*Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD Set*

Below is the full content listing for WWE's "Ladies and Gentlemen, My Name is Paul Heyman" DVD and Blu-ray that comes out in August, thanks to WrestlingDVDNews.com. Blu-ray exclusives will be revealed soon.

DISC 1

Survivor
Photographer
Promoter
Manager
Memphis
AWA
WCW
ECW
Team Mentality
Rebels
Commentator
Writer
OVW
New ECW
Businessman
Father
Return to WWE
Embracing the Moment

DISC 2

Paul E. is always in contact
AWA Championship Wrestling • August 1987

Pink Suspenders
AWA Superstars • August 1987

I'll Be Johnny Carson
AWA Championship Wrestling • August 1987

Danger Zone with Ted E. Bear
AWA Championship Wrestling • September 1987

You want to be a Cartoon?
AWA All Star Wrestling • September 1987

If Excitement Had a Name
AWA Superstars • September 1987

More Publicity
AWA Championship Wrestling • September 1987

Adrian Adonis
AWA All Star Wrestling • October 1987

The Definition of Pro Wrestling
AWA Superstars • November 1987

The Sequel Jim Cornette
NWA Pro Wrestling • October 1988

Nobody Wanted Paul E.
World Championship Wrestling • November 1988

Louisville Slugger
NWA Pro Wrestling • December 1988

The Year of Paul E. Dangerously
World Championship Wrestling • January 1989

Danger Zone with Ric Flair
World Championship Wrestling • March 1989

I'm So Handsome
NWA Main Event • March 1989

I Don't Have Wrestlers I Have Animals
World Wide Wrestling • March 1989

Ding Dong Who is it?
NWA Main Event • July 1989

The Era of the Dangerous Alliance
World Championship Wrestling • September 1989

Sting's Doll
Power Hour • May 1991

Save Us from Captain Oklahoma
World Championship Wrestling • November 1991

The Dangerous Alliance
World Championship Wrestling • November 1991

The Paul E. Awards
World Wide Wrestling • February 1992

The Ultimatum is at Hand
Pro Wrestling • April 1992

A New Dangerous Alliance
ECW Hardcore TV • October 1993

WCW Wants Sabu
ECW Hardcore TV • June 1994

Wrestler and Violence
ECW Hardcore TV • July 1994

Winds of Change
ECW Hardcore TV • November 1994

Cash Rules Everything
ECW Hardcore TV • December 1994

Best Damn Wrestling You've Ever Seen
ECW Hardcore TV • January 1995

There Ain't No Organization Like ECW
ECW • February 1996

ECW Comes to Pay-Per-View
ECW • February 1997

We Cleared Cablevision!
ECW • March 1998

The Card Has Changed
ECW Guilty As Charged • January 1999

The War Has Just Begun
ECW on TNN • June 2000

DISC 3

Paul Heyman Hates Mr. McMahon's Stinkin' Guts
SmackDown • November 15, 2001

Introducing: "The Next Big Thing"
RAW • April 8, 2002

Paul Heyman, Mr. McMahon & Eric Bischoff All Share One Ring
RAW • May 23, 2005

Paul Heyman Thanks the ECW Faithful
ECW One Night Stand • 12 June 2005

The Resurrection of ECW
ECW One Night Stand • June 11, 2006

From the Bingo Hall to the Garden
ECW • September 12, 2006

Mr. McMahon Gives Paul Heyman a Performance Review
RAW • January 28, 2013

Paul Heyman Gives CM Punk His Resignation
RAW • February 11, 2013

It's Clobbering Time for CM Punk
RAW • July 15, 2013

Volcano
RAW • October 21, 2013

Paul Heyman Drops a Pipe Bomb
RAW • March 3, 2014

The Original Midnight Express vs. The New Midnight Express
Main Event • January 21, 1989

Hardy Boyz vs. Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman
Judgment Day • May 19, 2002

No Disqualification Handicap Elimination Match
CM Punk vs. Curtis Axel & Paul Heyman
Night of Champions • September 15, 2013

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news...wwe-ladies-and-gentlemen/#1MKrrQBvmQ2xLUw3.99


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What's the card look like for Takeover? I can't speak to that event since I haven't watched much NXT lately, but for Arrival, they made it seem like a HUGE deal, and opening the show with Cesaro/Zayn certainly helped. That whole event just felt like a big success. I know they can't keep doing it in perpetuity, but Cesaro/Zayn is the one match up right now I feel like I could see 100 times and it wouldn't get old. Their chemistry is just beyond belief. If you want to see something funny, check out the Chris Hero shoot interview when he talks about being backstage with Heyman during their 2/3 Falls match last august. Hero and Heyman were having a nice little chat near the monitor, when all of the sudden Zayn set up for his through the ropes tornado DDT. Paul stopped mid sentence and just had his eyes glued on the monitor from then on, and his jaw just dropped when he saw the finish. As soon as it was over, Heyman quickly excused himself from Chris and went to Gorilla to shake both guys hands and sing their praises to anyone who would listen. It's stories like this me that make me really love Heyman, deep down he is still such a fan of real wrestling.
> 
> Payback should be okay but it's not something I'm overly excited about, either. I'll certainly watch it though. Perks of having the Network and all that jazz. I definitely wouldn't be shelling out $60 for this even if I didn't have it. Lazy ass booking.


Being a big Zayn fan I think you will enjoy this little video and also get excited for his future. You'll know why when you watch it. 






Takeover isn't as hype as Arrival but it still feels bigger than Payback lol. But yeah, I'm still really looking forward to both shows. Neville/Kidd, Zayn/Breeze, Charlotte/Natalya for Takeover and Shield/Evo, Paige/Fox, Cesaro/Seamus all have my interest.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> Royal Rumble 2001
> Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) (Royal Rumble 2001)
> Steve Austin vs Triple H (2/3 Falls) (No Way Out 2001)
> Kurt Angle vs The Rock (No Way Out 2001)
> ...


My 'Best of WWF 2001 PPV Matches' list. Could do with one or two more essentials if anyone has reccs?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Has there been any rumours from Meltzer as to the direction of Bryan and his title? I'm honestly surprised as to how little discussion the topic is getting (though, last time I looked at this thread it was at, like, page 5 :side. WWE creative are just as stuck as they were at Wrestlemania, in my view, as Chicago is a heavily dense smark city - a smark city that is home to Punk, of all wrestlers. I get that this is a B-PPV, and a huge step down from how they saw WM, but the crowd is not going to play ball with pretty much any outcome I can see happening. It's most probably why they were so pensive in stripping Bryan of the title to begin with. A hijacked show, with Punk and "bullshit" chants, seems increasingly likely the more I think on it.

While the build-up toward the show has been sorely lacking, it's going to end up an interesting show because of the crowd dynamic more than anything.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

They probably just decided fuck it, they're going to shit on whatever we do so we may as well just give them shit lol. I really don't think the card is that bad either, there's just a feeling of been there, done that, seen it already, attached to this show. I'm completely over Cena/WYatt and this is just enough of Shield/Evolution at this stage. So there isn't mass excitement in the general sphere but still plenty to look forward to. I've just resigned myself to the fact that there's going to be Punk chants all night long. It's sad but it's probably what the people going are looking forward to most. It will be interesting to see if they announce any future shows in Chicago when the show is over though. :lol if they didn't announce a return. 

I still think Steph should take the title off Bryan and award it to HHH...in Chicago. :lmao The heat would be unreal.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is Breeze a decent worker? I'm so down for more Sami Zayn. I wish they were doing Zayn v Graves but I'll take what I can get. 

Payback has my interest. I didn't have high expectations for Evolution/Shield at Extreme Rules but they delivered big time so I'm definitely looking forward to that one. NHB elimination should be pure chaos. If it's well booked and the Evolution guys go that extra mile (they were all fine in the first match, Batista actually looked good and I'd say he was the best guy on the heel team with some really good dazed selling for Reigns in particular) it has every chance of being a MOTYC. 

I'm probably in the minority here but I have confidence in Wyatt and Cena to turn things around and have a good match. Sheamus/Cesaro will be good for sure it's just a matter of if they can steal the show or not. Is Usos v Harper/Rowan on the card? I hope so. RVD and Big E are on my dislike list so it'll be nice to see them job to Barrett and Rusev. 

Didn't realize the PPV was in Chicago. If they could somehow convince Punk to come back and give him the title that would be an amazing moment. I know it's not happening but still, a guy can dream. The HHH mark in me wants them to make Evolution/Shield for the title. Trips winning the championship would get mad heat and set up a big return match for Bryan rather than continuing the feud with Kane.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck Punk. He can stay gone for all I care. Give the belt to Trips. He deserves it. 

:trips3

Or hopefully Bryan is able to continue and he won't need to vacate. They could have him keep it and do some Austin-esque stuff maybe? But he needs The Authority to work against so it doesn't seem likely. Who the hell knows but at least it's unpredictable. At least that's one thing we can't complain about.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Well, it's technically in Rosemont, but that's neither here nor there for the crowd demographic.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Who do you guys think is going over in the US title match? Can't see them doing another non-finish after already doing that on Main Event. Maybe Sheamus loses and turns heel? Someone talked about them doing a double turn like Ziggler/Del Rio last year. That could work. Cesaro's stagnating right now and Sheamus needs something to freshen up his character.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Double turn again seems unlikely but a Sheamus heel turn seems very probable. Chicago will surely boo him and a loss could make him more desperate or frustrated. I think he could even interfere in the Shield/Evo match to align with HHH going forward.

Cesaro could win with a Heyman assist, but he misses Heyman's interference and only brings this up on Raw or something? First step toward a babyface turn. If the rumors of Cesaro/Lesnar at SS are true, they should start rebuilding him fast.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not feeling Takeover, but Sami Zayn has another match so that means it's already 100x more important than Payback.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I got no interest in Takeover as well. Still gonna check it out though.

but holy shit am I far behind on NXT. When the hell did Kalisto debut? Also, when's that other Sami kid gonna debut. Christ, it's been a year now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Three weeks ago, I think. Something like that. Actually forgot about the tag match for Takeover. Ok, I'm wanting to see that too.

Callihan probably won't ever debut. I've felt that from the beginning.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

They can't debut too many people at once though. Right now Raw/SD are getting TAKEN OVER 8*D with NXT guys. They need to assimilate them into the proper roster before they start the process over again. That's why they're holding back on Zayn etc. If they introduce too many new people at once then they'll all get lost in the shuffle and that won't help any of them. When they finally do that I think we'll see the current top NXT guys called up and then a new wave of NXT guys come in to replace them and the whole thing will repeat itself.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Sting vs Vader (Dublin 17.03.1993) (Handheld House Show)*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's talking about Sami as in Sami Callihan aka Solomon Crowe. I don't even want Zayn on the main roster right now. No point for him to be there.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Didn't they debut Solomon Crowe at a TV taping but edited him out? Wonder what happened.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> He's talking about Sami as in Sami Callihan aka Solomon Crowe. I don't even want Zayn on the main roster right now. No point for him to be there.


That's what I mean. New NXT guys can't come in until current NXT guys get called up. Current NXT guys can't get called up until the ones just on the roster get settled in. It's a process and obviously takes time. There are also rumours of them holding some guys back for Tough Enough although I don't know how true they'll turn out to be. Even still, overloading the actual roster with all fresh faces isn't the best strategy. We still need some degree of familiarity and guys like the Shield/Wyatts/Cesaro while no longer 'new' still need time to find their feet. 

With the backing Zayn has he should be well looked after when he eventually gets called up so yeah, I agree that he's fine where he is.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't care what anybody else says, Goldberg Vs. Page from Halloween Havoc 1998 will always be WCW's Greatest PPV (main event) Match to me.

- Vic.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

DDP was awesome yo. Almost a full package deal.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm more excited for Payback than for Takeover. The card on paper doesn't look as appealing as Arrival did, mainly because there's no true "score settler" or any big gimmicks involved. Neville/Kidd could be good but I don't really think there's any heat for it unless they built a massive amount on last week's show. Kidd sort of just walked in and hasn't lost yet. Would've preferred seeing the blowoff to Neville/Clay on this live special, as I've said before. Still think those two need more time and they could've had a great match. For my money, Breeze vs. Zayn will steal the show. I've liked Breeze more and more each time I've seen him. He reminds me of a hybrid Dolph Ziggler & Shawn Michaels mix with some Matt/Nick Jackson thrown in. Love it. Tag Title match and Women's Title match are okay enough but from what I've seen the Ascension suck and no Paige means I've lost interest. Hopefully Charlotte wins.


----------



## RiC David (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Great lineup, just a shame it doesn't include the moment when HIS CLIENT, BROCK LESNAR, CONQUERED THE UNDERTAKER'S STREAK AT WRESTLEMANIA


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Is NXT Takeover 1 hour or 2 hours? Being 5 matches and all...


----------



## Knocks (Aug 8, 2013)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Sounds awesome.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Leon Knuckles said:


> Is NXT Takeover 1 hour or 2 hours? Being 5 matches and all...


It's 2. I'm sure they'll add a match or two that was unannounced. Probably some garbage with Mojo Rawley or somethin.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Watched Austin/Hart from WM13. While it's a great f'n match, it doesn't crack my WM Top 10, therefore I feel it's strongly overrated. I'm well aware of the impact it had on the industry and all that jazz, the ending is truly epic and memorable, but it's not a WM Top 10 material. Thinking about it, I think I might prefer their SS match, even though it's been years since the last watch. There are at least two Hart/Diesel matches I prefer over Hart/Austin II.

****1/4


----------



## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

I don't buy this listing because it isn't 3 discs of Heyman annoyingly screaming "my client Brock Lesnar conquered the Streak". Soon enough, his history is going to be retconned to where this is the only sentence he's ever said in his life. It's certainly the only sentence he's ever going to say again, because Vince knows how to ruin even the most joyous things about wrestling.

Supposing this compilation is actually real, this will be a valued collection because Heyman's days of cutting real promos are over.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Looking at the Payback card, I'm sure it's a long shot, but I think the show definitely has the potential to be a sleeper PPV of the year candidate. Shield/Evolution, Cena/Wyatt, and Sheamus/Cesaro could all deliver **** matches. Depends on how much time they give Sheamus/Cesaro. I know some people are sick of Cena/Wyatt and think the match has no chance considering their cage match from last month, but when I look at their WrestleMania match (which was excellent) there's definitely still some life there. I can see Rowan & Harper trying to get involved until Usos run them out of the ring to even the odds. As long as Cena doesn't use duck tape, we should be ok.

Not sure how the final card will end up, but I think Big E vs. Rusev was added. That could be short fun. Paige vs. Fox NEEDS time to develop because they've shown in all their matches they can do some good shit. Just don't have Paige win with one fucking move please. If Usos vs. Wyatts is added for the belts, well that'll just be a bonus. That might be something wee see the next night on RAW though. Card has shaped up really well despite the lack of Bryan imo. That segment with Stephanie could be great.... or could be awful if Brie's acting is involved. 

Is it bad that I have a wedding to attend at 5 on Sunday and I'm hoping it doesn't go too long because I wanna see this PPV? hahaha


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Must buy for all of that old school stuff :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vic Capri said:


> I don't care what anybody else says, Goldberg Vs. Page from Halloween Havoc 1998 will always be WCW's Greatest PPV (main event) Match to me.
> 
> - Vic.


Will always love that match too. Need to watch more DDP from that time TBH.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Watched Austin/Hart from WM13. While it's a great f'n match, it doesn't crack my WM Top 10, therefore I feel it's strongly overrated. I'm well aware of the impact it had on the industry and all that jazz, the ending is truly epic and memorable, but it's not a WM Top 10 material. Thinking about it, I think I might prefer their SS match, even though it's been years since the last watch. There are at least two Hart/Diesel matches I prefer over Hart/Austin II.
> 
> ****1/4


You're not alone. Never got the 5 star praise for that match. Definitely prefer Survivor Series.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

*Payback*...Think Shield/Evolution & Wyatt/Cena will be great but i'm less excited for the matches as i lost interest in the feuds after ER. Hope Sheamus/Cesaro can have a match on par or better than their latest ME match. Don't care about the rest of the card. Hornswoggle/Torito ain't topping their WeeLC match.

*Takeover*...Want to see Kalisto, Zahn & Neville in action but i'm not expecting anything big from their matches. Ascension, Breeze & Kidd are the wrestlers in NXT i never looked forward to seeing. No interest in the NXT womens title match.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Looking at the Payback card, I'm sure it's a long shot, but I think the show definitely has the potential to be a sleeper PPV of the year candidate. Shield/Evolution, Cena/Wyatt, and Sheamus/Cesaro could all deliver **** matches. Depends on how much time they give Sheamus/Cesaro. I know some people are sick of Cena/Wyatt and think the match has no chance considering their cage match from last month, but when I look at their WrestleMania match (which was excellent) there's definitely still some life there. I can see Rowan & Harper trying to get involved until Usos run them out of the ring to even the odds. As long as Cena doesn't use duck tape, we should be ok.
> 
> Not sure how the final card will end up, but I think Big E vs. Rusev was added. That could be short fun. Paige vs. Fox NEEDS time to develop because they've shown in all their matches they can do some good shit. Just don't have Paige win with one fucking move please. If Usos vs. Wyatts is added for the belts, well that'll just be a bonus. That might be something wee see the next night on RAW though. Card has shaped up really well despite the lack of Bryan imo. That segment with Stephanie could be great.... or could be awful if Brie's acting is involved.
> 
> Is it bad that I have a wedding to attend at 5 on Sunday and I'm hoping it doesn't go too long because I wanna see this PPV? hahaha



That's basically what I said in the earlier page. I agree, despite the general lack of interest, I think Payback could end up becoming the sleeper hit of the year in terms of match quality.

Gonna be interesting to see how WWE handles the Chicago crowd. All talents better be on their A game.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

If I were booking the show, I'd kick it off with Sheamus vs. Cesaro, give them 15-20 minutes to do their thing and put on a possible show stealer, a la Sheamus vs. Ziggler from NWO 2012. Sheamus wins and keeps his title, then the next night on RAW Cesaro gets his victory back by beating Sheamus in a Money in the Bank qualifier. It's a win for everyone. Also if those two put on a great match, you can hook people into the show who weren't quite feeling it due to no Bryan or WWE World Title match. Word of mouth spreads around, more viewers come in, it's another win win.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah Sheamus vs Cesaro should definitely open and Shield vs Evo should go last. Show shouldn't end with the Bryan/Steph/Brie story since nothing less than Punk miraculously appearing would appease the crowd in that scenario and they need to end on a high note.

I'd go

1. Sheamus vs Cesaro
2. Rusev vs Big E
3. BNB vs RVD
4. Cena vs Wyatt
5. Paige vs Alicia
6. Bryan situation
7. Shield vs Evo

Got a gut feeling there will be something Bo Dallas in between all that :lol

Are the Usos on the card?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Watched Austin/Hart from WM13. While it's a great f'n match, it doesn't crack my WM Top 10, therefore I feel it's strongly overrated. I'm well aware of the impact it had on the industry and all that jazz, the ending is truly epic and memorable, but it's not a WM Top 10 material. Thinking about it, I think I might prefer their SS match, even though it's been years since the last watch. There are at least two Hart/Diesel matches I prefer over Hart/Austin II.
> 
> ****1/4





Saint Dick said:


> You're not alone. Never got the 5 star praise for that match. Definitely prefer Survivor Series.




You are both out of your ever loving minds 

Especially you, Chismo. He who prefers Hogan/Andre to Austin/Hart for Best WM match is he who has zero taste in wrestling 

I'm kidding, you're entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that I think you're both nuts for not seeing how brilliant that match is. It's tied with the Michaels/Taler HiaC match as the greatest match of all time IMO. It's as perfect a wrestling match as I've ever seen. From how they start it with the crazy intensity and brawling through the crowd (which was NEVER done back then) to Bret's fabulous control segment, to the timing of Austin's super plex, the selling, and then of course the finish. There has never been a better finish than the one in that match, and I don't believe it will ever be topped. The match is only about 18 minutes long or so, but that actually works to their advantage as they are able to keep the intensity level sky high for the duration. That SVS match is an all time classic as well, and the two of them should really be viewed back to back as the story is consistent throughout. SVS starts off as a pure grappling affair and slowly simmers and escalates to a fight, while WM 13 picks up right where they left off and starts out as a chaotic brawl and finishes with the "toughest SOB in the WWF" refusing to give in as Bret cranks back on that sharpshooter. It really is just a beautiful match to watch. I've seen it 10+ times and it never gets old. I gave WM 13 *****+ and SVS ****3/4. I actually had never seen anyone give it anything less than the full 5 until you two just posted. I thought that was one of the few undisputed perfect matches out there. Guess there is always an opposing viewpoint.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Yeah Sheamus vs Cesaro should definitely open and Shield vs Evo should go last. Show shouldn't end with the Bryan/Steph/Brie story since nothing less than Punk miraculously appearing would appease the crowd in that scenario and they need to end on a high note.
> 
> I'd go
> 
> ...


I'd literally do the exact same thing.  Usos aren't facing Rowan & Harper as of yet but it could be a late addition.

One last thought before I'm off to work, I read Rah asking about the title situation, keep in mind that if Bryan does indeed give the title up (which seems like it's a lock), that Money in the Bank IS the next PPV. Seems like a perfect scenario if you ask me, a silver lining of sorts. The first ever MITB Ladder match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. That way a ladder match can open the show for the briefcase and one can close the show for the belt. So unpredictable...


----------



## RiC David (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Incidentally, how many WWE personalities have used the "My name is" formula?

"Mah name is Stone Cold Steve Austin" (I'm the WWF Champion and I do not deserve this - whiny lame heel 2001)

"My name...MynameisAlbertoDelRio!" (But you already knew that - ADR when he had charm and personality)

"My name....is Randy...Ortttttttt" (Sorry, dozed off there - bland face 'Apex Predator' Orton)

I feel like there are more. The best was Del Rio followed by Paul Heyman I reckon, it's just such an odd yet effective thing to say as a heel - I mean we obviously know what their freakin' name is. Hell I ripped it off myself for WWE2k14 online league promos "For those of you who don't know me, my name is ViolentRiC but _you_ can call me Five Star ViolentRiC". Of course it's all in the delivery (not gonna lie, I'm a master of my craft - check my channel, I dare ya).


----------



## Happenstan (Feb 11, 2009)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Which disc has Heyman talking about Brock ending the streak over and over again while Cesaro's credibility recedes faster than HBK's hairline?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You are both out of your ever loving minds
> 
> Especially you, Chismo. He who prefers Hogan/Andre to Austin/Hart for Best WM match is he who has zero taste in wrestling
> 
> I'm kidding, you're entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that I think you're both nuts for not seeing how brilliant that match is. It's tied with the Michaels/Taler HiaC match as the greatest match of all time IMO. It's as perfect a wrestling match as I've ever seen. From how they start it with the crazy intensity and brawling through the crowd (which was NEVER done back then) to Bret's fabulous control segment, to the timing of Austin's super plex, the selling, and then of course the finish. There has never been a better finish than the one in that match, and I don't believe it will ever be topped. The match is only about 18 minutes long or so, but that actually works to their advantage as they are able to keep the intensity level sky high for the duration. That SVS match is an all time classic as well, and the two of them should really be viewed back to back as the story is consistent throughout. SVS starts off as a pure grappling affair and slowly simmers and escalates to a fight, while WM 13 picks up right where they left off and starts out as a chaotic brawl and finishes with the "toughest SOB in the WWF" refusing to give in as Bret cranks back on that sharpshooter. It really is just a beautiful match to watch. I've seen it 10+ times and it never gets old. I gave WM 13 *****+ and SVS ****3/4. I actually had never seen anyone give it anything less than the full 5 until you two just posted. I thought that was one of the few undisputed perfect matches out there. Guess there is always an opposing viewpoint.


It's one of those matches I've always wanted to love more but never been able to. Maybe it's because I wasn't watching wrestling at the time? I dunno. I don't care that brawling through the crowd wasn't done back then, I rarely enjoy that and from what I recall it didn't do much for me in Austin/Hart. Overall the work is largely very good and the finish is fantastic but I've never watched it and thought to myself 'wow, that's one of the best matches I've ever seen.' My tastes have changed a lot since I last saw it though. Maybe I'll finally get what everyone else seems to get next time I watch it.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Sheamus/Cesaro getting 20 minutes on PPV would be :mark: And Triple H going over to end the show is even more :mark: :mark: The latter is actually pretty likely, as it will further set up Reigns/H for Summerslam. And this is possibly the last we see of Batista for a while.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

There has to be SOME swerve. I mean if Bryan had to give up the title there'd be no point in stretching it out until Payback. Maybe they just wanted Bryan to appear in Chicago but it seems too obvious. I'm overthinking things maybe :lol

Wouldn't mind what you said for MITB though, sounds great. One for the briefcase, one for the belt. They could have qualifying matches in the weeks leading up to the PPV.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Fuck, is the roster even deep enough for two briefcase matches, and matches in between. I mean are there enough credible people to go into those matches. Sure there are people that would be obvious place filler, but still. This would be different because one ladder match is for the title, and you can't put people like Kofi or Rusev lmao) in it.


----------



## clinic79 (Dec 25, 2013)

Quick analysis of *Armageddon 2005*:

JBL vs Matt Hardy - *1/2

This match was a brawl and JBL delivered most of the offense. These two could have been higher in the card IMO, which lacked depth.

MNM vs The Mexicools - **

Pretty basic tag team match. 

*Match 4 of the Best-of-7 Series for the US Championship*
Chris Benoit vs Booker T - ****1/4

Absolutely loved this match. Result was very predictable but the in-ring action was executed superbly. Match of the night.

Bobby Lashley vs William Regal and Paul Burchill - *

Quick squash match, nothing else. Best part was when Regal came to ring. The look on his face was priceless :lol

*Cruiserweight Championship*
Juventud(c) vs Kid Kash - **

This match had a bad spot on the card because before this match they showed boring Tim White segment which dragged too long. Crowd was dead during this whole match and you could hear some "boring" chants. But this match wasn't that bad. Despite the fact that neither of these guys weren't over, in-ring action was good. They did nice top-rope hurricanrana and finish was fine when Kid Kash kicked out of Juventud's finisher(don't know the name) and after that delivered Brainbuster to pick up the win. Someone could rate this match higher, though...

Batista & Rey Mysterio vs Kane & Big Show - **1/4

I don't think that these guys can have a great match when they're mixed together. Batista can't hit his finisher on neither of his opponents. Phase wasn't good but this was better that first tag match.

*Hell in a Cell*
Undertaker vs Randy Orton - ***1/2

This show was built around this match. It was good but it could have been better. It seemed that Orton couldn't handle this type of a stipulation. Match started slowly but got better near the ending. This match went over 30 minutes, which is a nice performance and was better than I remembered.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching some Nitro's from 1995, but i now feel inclined to really get stuck in from Hall and Nash's debut, so im onto WCW Great American Bash 1996 atm, the card looks rather grand TBH, so im looking forward to watching more and starting the 'Hostile Takeover' storyline.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> It's one of those matches I've always wanted to love more but never been able to. Maybe it's because I wasn't watching wrestling at the time? I dunno. I don't care that brawling through the crowd wasn't done back then, I rarely enjoy that and from what I recall it didn't do much for me in Austin/Hart. Overall the work is largely very good and the finish is fantastic but I've never watched it and thought to myself 'wow, that's one of the best matches I've ever seen.' My tastes have changed a lot since I last saw it though. Maybe I'll finally get what everyone else seems to get next time I watch it.



I mean, I'm sure nostalgia plays a small part in my love for it. I can remember where I was, who I was with, what I was wearing, everything, from when I saw WM 13 live as a 10 year old kid. I was a total Bret mark going into it, but I came out a full fledged Austin fan. I mean I still loved Bret as much as ever, but I remember that same week i went out and got the first of MANY Stone Cold shirts. He became the be all end all for me at that point. 

But even if that wasn't the case, I'd still think it was a perfect match. People all have different tastes, so if it's just not for you then there is no shame in that. Everyone creams themselves over the Flair/Steamboat matches, but I'd rather watch Flair/Funk (both matches) or Flair/Windham (all 3) or Flair/Trips TT05' instead of any of those 3 Steamboat matches in 1989. I know they are great, I can totally see why people love them, yet still I just don't turn into a full mark watching them like I do with the others I listed.

I'm dying to see Cesaro and Sheamus go full bore for 15+ minutes at a PPV. I think we could easily get a ****+ match. Sheamus hasn't had a truly GREAT singles match in a while, just a lot of really good ones, I think Sunday is the time for him to bust out a MOTYC. He didn't have a single match in my top 10 for last year, so he has some catching up to do


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

When does Batista's movie come out? They're going to swing him into face by then, I'd assume. Heaven forbid they redo an Evolution split where Batista gets pissed off being HHH's lackey and doing all the work for HHH to reap the rewards.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Sheamus/Cesaro better get time, that match is going to rule :mark: 

pretty excited for takeover tonight, card looks decent enough


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You are both out of your ever loving minds
> 
> Especially you, Chismo. He who prefers Hogan/Andre to Austin/Hart for Best WM match is he who has zero taste in wrestling
> 
> I'm kidding, you're entitled to your opinions, but that doesn't change the fact that I think you're both nuts for not seeing how brilliant that match is. It's tied with the Michaels/Taler HiaC match as the greatest match of all time IMO. It's as perfect a wrestling match as I've ever seen. From how they start it with the crazy intensity and brawling through the crowd (which was NEVER done back then) to Bret's fabulous control segment, to the timing of Austin's super plex, the selling, and then of course the finish. There has never been a better finish than the one in that match, and I don't believe it will ever be topped. The match is only about 18 minutes long or so, but that actually works to their advantage as they are able to keep the intensity level sky high for the duration. That SVS match is an all time classic as well, and the two of them should really be viewed back to back as the story is consistent throughout. SVS starts off as a pure grappling affair and slowly simmers and escalates to a fight, while WM 13 picks up right where they left off and starts out as a chaotic brawl and finishes with the "toughest SOB in the WWF" refusing to give in as Bret cranks back on that sharpshooter. It really is just a beautiful match to watch. I've seen it 10+ times and it never gets old. I gave WM 13 *****+ and SVS ****3/4. I actually had never seen anyone give it anything less than the full 5 until you two just posted. I thought that was one of the few undisputed perfect matches out there. Guess there is always an opposing viewpoint.


It's a great match, but, and I didn't want to bring this up, there are some dry parts in there, such as Austin's total lack of leg selling (after the chairshot), and just a few hollow parts here and there in general. In fact, if not for such an epic finishing run, I wouldn't even call it a great match. Five stars? Nah, no way.

And since you brought up Andre/Hogan, look, it's VERY simple and easy - I (and everyone else, I hope) look on wrestling as a storytelling medium, when I watch a wrestling match, a story comes first, that's the essence, it doesn't matter how they did that or how they got there: headlocks, tope con hilos, elbows, interferences, chain sequences, lighttubes, thumbtacks... that's just a form, and it's subordinated to a content. TLDR, Andre/Hogan is one of the greatest storis ever told.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Helmsley said:


> Fuck, is the roster even deep enough for two briefcase matches, and matches in between. I mean are there enough credible people to go into those matches. Sure there are people that would be obvious place filler, but still. This would be different because one ladder match is for the title, and you can't put people like Kofi or Rusev lmao) in it.



They can do 2 ladder matches, did one just last year. Qualifying matches may have been a stretch :lol

But they could add jobbers to those qualifiers if needed


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I see Chismos point tbh, the story in that match is awesome

but its def not better than Austin/Bret and probably not in my top 50 for mania matches


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Also looking to get watching some Owen Hart stuff, trying to compile a 'Best of' list, got these so far:

vs Bret Hart (No Holds Barred) (Raw 01.10.1995)
vs Bret Hart (Wrestlemania 10)
vs Jushin Liger (NJPW 04.27.1991)
vs 123 Kid (King Of The Ring 1994)
vs British Bulldog (Raw 03.03.1997)
vs Shawn Michaels (IYH: Rage In The Cage)
w/Bret Hart vs The Quebecers (Royal Rumble 1994)
w/Bret Hart vs The Steiner Brothers (Wrestlefest 1994)
w/Jim Neidhart vs Bret Hart & British Bulldog (Raw 07.11.1994)
vs Bret Hart (Cage) (Summerslam 1994)
vs Ken Shamrock (Lions Den) (Summerslam 1998)
w/British Bulldog vs Shawn Michaels & Steve Austin (Raw 07.14.1997)
vs Vader (One Night Only 1997)
w/ British Bulldog vs Doug Furnas & Phil Lafon (IYH)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*






As an extra.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> It's a great match, but, and I didn't want to bring this up, there are some dry parts in there, such as Austin's total lack of leg selling (after the chairshot), and just a few hollow parts here and there in general. In fact, if not for such an epic finishing run, I wouldn't even call it a great match. Five stars? Nah, no way.
> 
> And since you brought up Andre/Hogan, look, it's VERY simple and easy - I (and everyone else, I hope) look on wrestling as a storytelling medium, when I watch a wrestling match, a story comes first, that's the essence, it doesn't matter how they did that or how they got there: headlocks, tope con hilos, elbows, interferences, chain sequences, lighttubes, thumbtacks... that's just a form, and it's subordinated to a content. TLDR, Andre/Hogan is one of the greatest storis ever told.


I know what you mean, but that's why it's so baffling to me that you don't absolutely love that WM 13 match. Ask any wrestler or fan to name a match with beautiful story telling, and they will either say Bret/Owen WM 10 or Bret/Austin WM 13. Those matches tell the best stories in my opinion of any match I've seen. The story of the "Irresistable force meeting the immovable object" is great in it's own right, but man is it ever dull how the executed it. It's a 10 minute match with as much electricity in the air as you are likely to ever see.....and still I find it awfully hard to sit through without checking my phone a few times. Bret/Austin tells it's story every bit as well, while also keeping things action packed from bell to bell and doing some just tremendous wrestling to boot. You said Bret/Austin had hollow points, I can't understand that, especially since Hogan/Andre is essentially just 2 big moments with nothing but hollowness in between. There is the face off in the beginning with Hogan going for the slam and failing, then there is Hogan getting the slam and dropping the boot. In between it feels like just filler. Andre was nearly crippled at that point, so it's not fair to blame it on him since he was a great worker in his prime from all accounts. I think they did the best they could, but yea, not so great as far as having a match that's just entertaining to watch, pardon those aforementioned 2 big moments. They accomplished the goal of that match, which is important I suppose, but I never felt they went above and beyond to create a memorable wrestling match. There is a well known story that after WM 3 people back stage were lining up to congratulate Savage and Steamboat because they absolutely went above and beyond and created a timeless piece of art. People weren't doing the same for Hogan because he only did what he was supposed to, or something. I don't know what that's supposed to mean, just thought it would provide a little insight on how that Hogan/Andre match was viewed by people in the company after they had it.

I hope you don't take this as me saying you're wrong, just having a friendly debate. If Hogan/Andre is your preference then I respect that.


----------



## jimboystar24 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

This looks like a great lineup. I would have liked it to end with "Father" chapter. Assuming that is about how he had a kid and how he had a great rest of his life. I would have liked if nothing about him returning to WWE was mentioned.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Did all of you know that Paul Heyman's client Brock Lesnar conquered the Undertaker's undefeated Streak at WrestleMania?


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Very excited about the documentary, but I feel like they should include the post-Mania promo too.


----------



## Scorpion_Deathlock (Oct 12, 2010)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*

Looking forward to this.


----------



## Kalashnikov (Dec 30, 2010)

*Re: Full Content Listing For WWE's 'Ladies And Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman' DVD*



Tyrion Lannister said:


> because Vince knows how to ruin even the most joyous things about wrestling.


I don't think you understand what a heel is supposed to do.


----------



## RyanPelley (Jun 5, 2011)

Disc 1 documentary? My dong is hard.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Since they seem to be building up the IC title I think it would be a good idea to have a MITB match for that and one for the WWEWHC/WWEWHC briefcase depending on Bryan.

Say Bryan drops it go with Cena/Wyatt/Cesaro/Orton/Kane/Sheamus. For the IC match something like RVD/Swagger/Cody/Ziggler/Big E/Del Rio.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ugh I hate when jobber WWE section threads get merged here 

Might buy that DVD tbh, would be the first I've bought since the network came out


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I found Hart/Austin (WM13) really good and Hogan/Andre (WM) ok, neither would be in my top 10 nor Steamboat/Savage for that matter which was good.

Maybe it's cause i've known the stories from each match and saw footage of them since i was a kid. That wouldn't explain how i can still enjoy Michaels/Taker HIAC as i first watched it in 2006.
I didn't enjoy the brawling in the crowd and middle portain of Hart/Austin.

------------------

I too thought of having one MITB match for the WHC and another for the briefcase but as someone mentioned, the number of wrestlers qualified to compete in either match would be short.

Reigns
Rollins
Ambrose
Orton
Batista
HHH
Barrett
Sheamus
Cesaro
RVD
Rusev
Cena
Wyatt

now as you can see i only plan to have two matches on the entire MITB card lmao. I don't see them throwing either Sheamus or Barrett in the match this year and i think HHH will sit this ppv out.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched a few matches, figured I'd toss out ratings:

Judgment Day 2002

Angle/Edge: **** 

-fun ass match, back and forth and fast paced while still allowing time for selling and for moves to have the proper impact. Edges spear looked better here than any other matches I can remember.

Jericho/Hunter HiaC: ***1/2

-this match gets a ton of hate and I just don't see it. It passes the first and most important test for any match for me: it's just plain fun to watch. Hunter is ridiculous with his punching noises, and Jericho must have called Hunter a "son of a bitch" atleast 10 times. There were several spots that don't make any sense at all, so that's why I can't rate it any higher. Still, fun match to watch.

Cesaro/Cena Raw Feb 2014: ****1/4

-this match is firmly my #3 for MotY. I absolutely loved it live, and it held up splendidly on rewatch. Cesaro was amazing, he got his first big shot against WWE's poster boy and he knocked it out of the park. I doubt we see a rematch anytime soon, but when we do get one, I expect BIG things. These two beats have natural chemistry.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I won't get too excited about the current state of the IC title. We've seen it over and over the past few years. Out of the blue they start putting a lot of effort into booking a title to make it mean something, so that they can put it someone they've had their eye on the past few months, only for that person to do nothing with it. You'd at least think if the plan is to put a title on Wrestler A, they'd build wrestler A to eventually win it. Nope, instead they use wrestlers B through Z to build the title and hand it to Wrestler A. And Wrestler A goes on to defend it once year. 

Don't believe me? Drew McIntyre circa 2009 says hi.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

sharkboy22 said:


> I won't get too excited about the current state of the IC title. We've seen it over and over the past few years. Out of the blue they start putting a lot of effort into booking a title to make it mean something, so that they can put it someone they've had their eye on the past few months, only for that person to do nothing with it. You'd at least think if the plan is to put a title on Wrestler A, they'd build wrestler A to eventually win it. Nope, instead they use wrestlers B through Z to build the title and hand it to Wrestler A. And Wrestler A goes on to defend it once year.
> 
> Don't believe me? Drew McIntyre circa 2009 says hi.


Usually i'm the one telling people not to get their hopes up, for the first time i've been caught in the spider web of the midcard titles :lol. They've done better with the US title after ER, creating a feud over the US title while simply throwing a challenger at Barrett like they did for Big E.
Now as a Cesaro fan this doesn't mean i would've been happy if he won the belt on sunday, it's still the US title and he's had a long reign with it already.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

etrbaby said:


> I randomly typed on youtube Sting vs Ricky Steamboat to see if they every faced and who the crowd rooted for, anw this match popped
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow. I have not seen this but with all that awesome in one ring? Yes please. 

I always wanted to see a face/face battle between Sting and Steamboat! :mark: 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Likely uncommon to rate Punk/Bryan MITB over OTL but I have it right there at **** and the latter at ***1/2.


OTL > MitB

Both are great though. I think 3 1/2 is the lowest I have seen OTL rated. Probably my favorite match of 2012. 



BarneyArmy said:


> Below is the full content listing for WWE's "Ladies and Gentlemen, My Name is Paul Heyman" DVD and Blu-ray that comes out in August, thanks to WrestlingDVDNews.com. Blu-ray exclusives will be revealed soon.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

There's just something about the OTL that doesn't click with me. Can't put my finger on it but back then I was in the minority of not throwing ***** or heck even **** at it. Always had it in the ***1/2-***3/4 range. Didn't even crack my top 10 list for that year.

Is anybody watching Takeover pre-show? Cole just said, "Let's be honest, we all watch Total Divas" :lmao

And fuck off WWE with trying to use NXT to put Total Divas over. I can't believe they're using Natayla and Tyson Kidd to fucking put over their stupid show and their stupid relationship. And I think Kidd's winning the title 

EDIT: I disagree 100% with that Owen and Bryan comparison.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

TAKEOVER HYPE


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Is Adam Rose's character homosexual?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Is Adam Rose's character homosexual?


That moment when Camacho had him in his arms made me ask the same thing, but I'm not sure.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> There's just something about the OTL that doesn't click with me. Can't put my finger on it but back then I was in the minority of not throwing ***** or heck even **** at it. Always had it in the ***1/2-***3/4 range. Didn't even crack my top 10 list for that year.
> 
> Is anybody watching Takeover pre-show? Cole just said, "Let's be honest, we all watch Total Divas" :lmao
> 
> ...



OTL was my co-MotY for 2012 (along with Brock/Cena and Shield/Hell No TLC). Just a flawless, epic match. Loved it an incredible amount. That submission sequence where Bryan is screaming at Punk "TAP! TAP! TAP!" Was my favorite part for sure.

I don't know if I'd say I see ALOT of Owen in Bryan, but there are some similarities. Bryan's heel character in 2012-early 2013 had some similarities with Owens heel character "IM NOT A NUGGET" is definitely something I could see Bryan yelling. Their ring work has a few similarities, in that both guys were extremely talented on the mat but blended it with a high risk style at times. The biggest difference though is intensity and striking. Bryan is just 10000x more intense in the ring than Owen was, and Bryan works a lot more stiff striking into his offense, something Owen never ever did. And Owen could do a lot more springboard-high flying things than Bryan has ever done, Bryan is a lot more high impact/risk than high flying.

So I wouldn't say Bret was totally off base, but come on, as good as Owen was, he was no Bryan fucking Danielson. If Bryan stays healthy and wrestles at his current level for another 7-10 years, there is a DAMN good chance he goes down as one of the 10 greatest wrestlers ever. Then again, Owen didn't consistently get the same caliber of opponent that Bryan has gotten. 95% of the time, when Owen was in the ring with a great main event level talent like Shawn, Bret, Bulldog, or Vader, he knocked it out of the park.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Breeze vs Zayn ruleeed.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Shame about that botchtastic sequence. Otherwise Breeze/Zayn was swanky.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Charlotte vs Natalya is waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Paige vs Emma


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

That was a nearly 17 minute divas match lol. And it never got boring.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Takeover was tons of fun, as expected. 

Initial ratings:

Rose vs Camacho: **
Ascension vs Kalisto/El Local: **1/2
Zayn vs Breeze: ****
Charlotte vs Natalya: ****1/4 (I know I'm probably overrating this)
Neville vs Kidd: can't rate this one, lagged a lot, I'll rewatch it later on, but what I saw was great.


Better than Arrival overall, I think, even though nothing comes close to Zayn vs Cesaro from that show.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Rose/Camacho: **
Tag: **1/4 
Zayn/Breeze: ****
Charlotte/Natalya: ****
Neville/Kidd: ***3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

These ratings serious for Charlotte/Natalya??? You're telling me the WWE has now had THREE very good Divas matches this year??? I have to see it to believe it. 

Surprised they only had the 5 announced matches. I'll have to check the show out tomorrow night.

----------------

Whoever was asking if the roster was deep enough for two Ladder matches... maybe. For the WWE World Title one:

All of Evolution
All of the Shield
John Cena
Bray Wyatt

For the briefcase one:

Cesaro
Cody Rhodes
Goldust
Alberto Del Rio
Mark Henry
Dolph Ziggler
RVD
Adam Rose or Jack Swagger

Still leaves you on the rest of the card with Barrett, Sheamus, Usos, Rowan & Harper, Big E, the loser of the Rose/Swagger qualifier, Rusev, Bo Dallas, whatever shit they could do with Los Matadores & 3MB, the Divas match, Big Show (maybe?), RybAxel, Sandow (lol), Kane, Miz (where the fuck's he even at?), and then a bunch of jobbers. The middle of the card wouldn't be that interesting, but they could pull it off.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Whoever was asking if the roster was deep enough for two Ladder matches*... maybe. For the WWE World Title one:
> 
> All of Evolution
> All of the Shield
> ...


Twas I. Batista is probably taking over Sunday, and I'm conflicted on whether or not I'd like to see Shield facing each other in that match. Cody and Goldust aren't relevant enough atm, and Rose isn't there yet. Maybe I'm being picky about this whole thing, but I'd be fine with just one ladder match, and whatever else they do with the belt. Ambrose was great in the ladder match last year, and he and Rollins in one would be :mark:

On the subject of Takeover, I think Charlotte/Nattie was very good, but had a couple dry moments. It was easily the best WWE womens match I've seen in a while, but I'm so engrained in WWE womens matches that possibly couldn't mean very much. Zayn/Breeze was great, and I enjoyed Breeze a ton. Zayn obviously never fails to deliver. Two match show, with the main event being okay. Nothing special really.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Helmsley said:


> Twas I. Batista is probably taking over Sunday, and I'm conflicted on whether or not I'd like to see Shield facing each other in that match. Cody and Goldust aren't relevant enough atm, and Rose isn't there yet. Maybe I'm being picky about this whole thing, but I'd be fine with just one ladder match, and whatever else they do with the belt. Ambrose was great in the ladder match last year, and he and Rollins in one would be :mark:
> 
> On the subject of Takeover, I think Charlotte/Nattie was very good, but had a couple dry moments. It was easily the best WWE womens match I've seen in a while, but I'm so engrained in WWE womens matches that possibly couldn't mean very much. Zayn/Breeze was great, and I enjoyed Breeze a ton. Zayn obviously never fails to deliver. *Two match show, with the main event being okay. Nothing special really.*


Well Guardians of the Galaxy is out August 1st so they _could_ have Big Dave win the belt at MITB and run with it to promote the movie as the face of the company. When Bryan makes his eventual return (presumably at Battleground at the end of July, Summerslam at the latest), he can make the comeback to beat the "Hollywood Champion". All seems to write itself out if you ask me. 

Your last sentence describes exactly how I felt about Arrival, so if Takeover is the same I'll be ok with it. For women's matches this year, if you haven't seen Paige/Emma from said show and also AJ/Natalya from Main Event, you should definitely check them out. Cody will tell you otherwise and I'm really not sure why, but they're definitely the two best Divas matches I've seen from this company in years. Hearing the thoughts on Natalya/Charlotte makes me excited.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I suppose that could happen, but Dave may not even be available for Raw, so who knows. Don't know when Bryan will be back either, so that's another unknown. I think they could have dealt without having Battleground in there as it's a rushed build to a filler PPV. Money in the Bank is a good lead in to Summerslam, and Battleground being in there just makes no sense. It made the same amount of sense having a three week build to HIAC the last few years. (I get on that soapbox a lot.) 

We'll just see. Trying to predict what WWE is going to do is futile, and not having a champion at the moment (couple with them not knowing what to do with the situation) makes it worse.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody holds women's wrestling standards up to the levels of Aja Kong and Dump Matsumoto. Can't really blame him for that, even if I can blame him for a million other things.

The two ladder match idea for MITB is both brilliant and based on recent dietsheets, believable. Speaking of which, I was browsing through an old forum that I used to post at. Remember that terrible match that Angle and Eddie had at Summerslam 2004? Well apparently what happened was that Angle got angry at Eddie because Eddie wanted to sell while Angle wanted him not to. Go figure.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, now I regret not watching Takeover. I only saw the pre-show and then I went to the gym. Was the Divas match that good?

EDIT: They got 17 minute? Must...find..torrent...Can't...wait....till tomorrow....need...show.....now


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I thought it was the opposite. I saw a random Youtube video in which Angle said that he was frustrated because he kept having to carry Eddie, 'cause Eddie was having personal problems. It was a "get it together" type of fight. Problem was, Eddie was having problems with his body, and Angle thinks that Eddie shouldn't have even been working at that point.







It's always weird hearing Angle speak out of character. For some reason, I always expect him to have that goofy delivery, lol. It's a head trip. 

Weird timing, btw, 'cause I was just gonna ask how that match was, 'cause I was just watching other stuff from that PPV.

Watched Sheamus vs. Big Show at HIAC '12. You guys weren't kidding. That was a great match. Made all the better by the fact that I didn't know the outcome, so the nearfalls really had me on a roller coaster ride.

Also, I came in on the second half of Natalya vs. AJ on Main Event, but from what I saw, it was great.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> I won't get too excited about the current state of the IC title. We've seen it over and over the past few years. Out of the blue they start putting a lot of effort into booking a title to make it mean something, so that they can put it someone they've had their eye on the past few months, only for that person to do nothing with it. You'd at least think if the plan is to put a title on Wrestler A, they'd build wrestler A to eventually win it. Nope, instead they use wrestlers B through Z to build the title and hand it to Wrestler A. And Wrestler A goes on to defend it once year.
> 
> Don't believe me? Drew McIntyre circa 2009 says hi.


If there were still 2 world titles I would totally agree with you. 

But with only 1 world title and 5 hours of TV they kind if have to put some effort into one if the belts.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

LilOlMe;34778057Watched Sheamus vs. Big Show at HIAC '12. You guys weren't kidding. That was a great match. Made all the better by the fact that I didn't know the outcome said:


> The nerve of you to doubt the epicness of Big Show vs Sheamus....nah jk. At the time, on paper it was the match, I think it's safe to say, everyone wasn't looking forward. Then the match just happened. And everyone marked the fuck out. The end. Iirc, it made my top 10 for 2012.
> 
> I think Big Show and especially Sheamus are criminally underrated. They give consistent performances yet for some reason fans start their "JBL" shit during their matches. More so Sheamus than Show. Poor fella.
> 
> Big Show is mostly unfairly shitted on in the parts that exist outside this safe haven. On TV, he's generally liked. It's poor fella who can't seem to catch a break.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nattie/Charlotte was decent ( Ive just watched it for the 2x) but it suffers from one major problem IMO. Majority of the match is the two of them trading submissions but both do not sell any of it, and dont act even slightly worn down until Nattie for a few mins at the very end, and even then not that much. It was ok for divas standards, and the legends ringside made it cool, but nothing AMAZING like you would think reading the latest page of threads in this section

As for the rest of the show, my stream lagged during Zayn/Breeze so I'd have to rewatch it, but the rest of the show was meh


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

NAITCH said:


> Nattie/Charlotte was decent ( Ive just watched it for the 2x) but it suffers from one major problem IMO. *Majority of the match is the two of them trading submissions but both do not sell any of it, and dont act even slightly worn down until Nattie for a few mins at the very end, and even then not that much.* It was ok for divas standards, and the legends ringside made it cool, but nothing AMAZING like you would think reading the latest page of threads in this section


I knew it was too damn good to be true. Also, what you described is the typical Nattie match imo. I'm sorry but I ain't no Nattie mark. It's the same reason why I didn't enjoy her match with Beth (believe it was Beth's last) on SD as much as everyone else. They basically just put one another in submission and no one sells. Too my turn, your turn.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Sheamus/Show rules the universe. Possibly a top 5 match for 2012. Certainly top 10.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Does anyone remember Fella/Henry from Summerslam? The night I became a Fella mark. It's a shame it took me that long because his Ladder match with JoMo was sweet and that happened before. At the time, however, I could have cared less for it, cause you know, not enough SPOTZZZ. That and back then the trend was, maybe still is, to hate on poor Fella.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea Ive seen Nattie (bear w/ me, I'm an avid Total Diva viewer) fall into that routine many of times in her matches which is a turn off, this one was more so ony Charlotte but both could have sold better..

Yea Henry/Sheamus is amazing so is their smackdown rematch. They also have a house show I've seen that is very good


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I can't imagine a WWE women's match reaching the four star mark but I'm looking forward to checking it out nonetheless. Breeze/Zayn was really good from what I could tell (I'm sick as a dog right now so it didn't have my full attention). I'll give that a second viewing and watch Neville/Kidd while I'm at it. These live NXT shows feel like a breath of fresh air. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I've never seen the match, but Trish/Mickie from WM 22 often gets touted as the best women's match in the company's history and the highest I've ever seen it rated was ***1/2. Anyone willing to share their thoughts on the match?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I can't imagine a WWE women's match reaching the four star mark but I'm looking forward to checking it out nonetheless. Breeze/Zayn was really good from what I could tell (I'm sick as a dog right now so it didn't have my full attention). I'll give that a second viewing and watch Neville/Kidd while I'm at it. *These live NXT shows feel like a breath of fresh air.* (Y)


That I can most certainly agree on. Maybe they'll make it a normal thing, a la Clash of the Champions.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Everything said about the Divas match on this page is fact. As is the Nattie thing about how all her matches go. Trades random submission holds until the match is in the go-home portion then the nearfalls and shit kick in. While I thought this match tonight had a solid five minute stretch at the end, the first ten minutes were trash so it doesn't exactly leave a whole lot to talk about. Flair's reaction on the finish was the best part.

Zayn vs Breeze was something I'd call great. That's a match where the early feeling out stuff actually felt like it had a building process to what it would escalate towards as it went on and on. The orange crush spot wasn't pretty, but I thought the improvisation on it was neat & it still came off well to get the proper reaction. Was hoping WWE would let Zayn bust out another one of his tricks. Loved the finish too (maybe not the booking for who won 8*D) as it kept plenty of things open. It wasn't dirty, but Zayn has a gripe as to getting caught in a flash by the Beauty Shot to get the loss. Zayn was killer here, per usual. Being the best has those perks. Breeze finally got to show exactly what he can do & that is almost the best part about this. He's got a gimmick that he makes stellar & he's a good talent to boot. Always pleased to see him rising. Zayn being the Danielson of NXT is rough as I'm the uber geek who only wants success for him at every turn, but I can cope when the payoff is finally here. Obvious MOTN. It was the only "good" match on the program.

Rusev burying Mojo was a million stars. Paige showing up in tight pants is how time needs to be wasted. Tag titles proves why Kalisto is awesome, but needs a more long lasting partner if stationed in a team.

Neville vs Kidd = :lmao Garbage. Go back to five minute sprints, Kidd.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I've never seen the match, but Trish/Mickie from WM 22 often gets touted as the best women's match in the company's history and the highest I've ever seen it rated was ***1/2. Anyone willing to share their thoughts on the match?


Fun match mainly because of Mickie's performance, but it was no technical marvel. Still, it's worth a watch.

Don't understand the praise for Trish/Lita (Trish's retirement match). Other than Trish doing the sharpshooter and that spot where they both went over the rope, I thought it was a waste of time and a mess. Had no flow to it whatsoever.

Of what I've seen, Victoria is better than the both of them by about a thousand. However, Lita and Trish have more star presence/charisma.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Did you see Cole bury the fuck out of TJ( Kidd) ? :lmao Oh my lord, yea need to rewatch Zayn/Breeze


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> That I can most certainly agree on. Maybe they'll make it a normal thing, a la Clash of the Champions.


I'm sure they'll keep doing them. No reason why they shouldn't. One of the things I've enjoyed the most about them is that I don't watch NXT ever unless a match gets pimped on here so it's cool to see talent I know basically nothing about in action. The atmosphere for both shows has been super fun too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Trish/Lita Unforgiven '06 is horrible and boring. Trish is the most overrated Diva of all time imo anyway. Ok she took some big bumps. I commend her for that but the way people talk about you'd swear she was the Danielson of the division.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crowds at NXT are the only thing about it I actively dislike. But they think they're cool, so isn't gonna stop.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

While we're talking about divas matches, Beth Phoenix v Melina. That one where Melina did some out of this world flexible stuff. I'd watch that again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Topic should just be Sami Zayn right now. Skins give thoughts on the match so it can snowball w/two people.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Haha I will, have to watch it right after Legends House, :hbk is on it which is the only reason in this world I'm watching it but a great reason nonetheless


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sami Zayn and William Regal are a better combination than Steve Austin and Jim Ross. There you have it.

And Paul London is glorious. Six months in and he's been the second best worker in the company behind Benoit.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins all of Legends House is worth seeing. Roddy Piper wandering into a vacant lot just b/c is stuff that has to be seen.

Guessing that London comment is referring to 2006. I mean, it has to right? His Cruiserweight stint in 2005 didn't give him as much goodies as it should have. I think. Then again I have three matches I really like/love from him in that year alone.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Crowds at NXT are the only thing about it I actively dislike. But they think they're cool, so isn't gonna stop.


I feel asleep after the first match but they seemed fine to me. I mean they had all sorts of chants and stuff but everything for Camacho/Rose was related to the match.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Sami Zayn and William Regal are a better combination than Steve Austin and Jim Ross. There you have it.
> 
> And Paul London is glorious. Six months in and he's been the second best worker in the company behind Benoit.


Have you seen some of his early work before he was signed? In 2002 and 2003 in ROH I can totally understand if someone said that he was the next Shawn Michaels or some other bold statement like that. He had like 45 minute match with Danielson where London was clearly better than him. And he gave one of the best underdog performances I've ever seen in 2003 when he was in a #1 Contender's match which he won and the champion than told him his match started as soon as the last one ended. 

He wasn't around in ROH for too long but he has some great matches that are worth checking out if you can find them. I only saw them because I have like 30 super old ROH shows on VHS (I got them on ebay for less than $30). I haven't watched as many as I should but you get some rare gems out of them. And A LOT of spot fests.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Puts over LH, but isnt high on Total divas at times, c'mon man

Anyways, yea Zayn/Breeze was real fun,clearly outshined the rest of the card by far, actually felt like the work in the beginning lead to something. Zayn's already a GOAT seller, we all know this, I feel he is more over now ? Am I right saying that in the NXT relm ? Lol @ Breeze doing this flamboyant gimmick 1000x better than Fandango and I've only seen him once


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Puts over LH, but isnt high on Total divas at times, c'mon man
> 
> Anyways, yea Zayn/Breeze was real fun,clearly outshined the rest of the card by far, actually felt like the work in the beginning lead to something. Zayn's already a GOAT seller, we all know this, I feel he is more over now ? Am I right saying that in the NXT relm ? *Lol @ Breeze doing this flamboyant gimmick 1000x better than Fandango and I've only seen him once*


Dude, I thought the exact same thing. It was my first time seeing Breeze as well and when he first came out I was like 'fuck this, he's like another Fandango and I can't take him seriously with this gimmick' but by the end of the match I thought 'hey, maybe this guy could make it work.' I still don't really like the gimmick tbh but everything works better than you'd expect when match quality is high.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just finished watching Takeover. Zayn vs. Breeze RULED (ofc), I skipped Natalya vs. Charlotte because I thought it'd be a steaming pile of shit (which it apparently wasn't) so I'll have to give that a watch sometime, and I liked Neville vs. Kidd but it dragged in parts.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This might be my favorite Dudley Boys tag match that didn't involve a table. Ah hell, it is. Paul London and Billy Kidman. What a match made in heaven. That WASSUP headbutt :mark:

Damn shame that London hated Matt Hardy, Evan Bourne, and GOAT. Otherwise, he was the example of what a babyface should be.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Holy fuck at Zayn/Breeze. Just finished watching it. My jaw was on the floor. That was some fucking awesome stuff. Zayn is Zayn, but man, I love the Tyler Breeze character. What a god damn match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Holy fuck at Zayn/Breeze. Just finished watching it. My jaw was on the floor. That was some fucking awesome stuff. Zayn is Zayn, but man, I love the Tyler Breeze character. What a god damn match.


You seem shocked the match was fantastic :zayn


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

NXT TAKEOVER - What an amazing program. Triple H def knows what he is doing. I cant wait for him to take WWE to this level. Here is my quick review. I appreciate all and any comments/responses.

Adam Rose vs Camacho
***
This was a decent opener. I like Rose's party gimmick and this was my first time seeing him wrestle. It wasnt boring but I dont really remember much. Camacho was decent too.

The Ascension vs Kalisto & El Local
***
I enjoyed this tag match. The Ascension are beast and their coop finisher looked deadly. I also enjoyed watching Kalisto bounce around. Hes a really small guy. My only complaint was El Local (Ricardo). This dude is chubby and sloppy. He may have been a star in Mexico (maybe?) but he has some work to do. Maybe he was just rusty.

Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze
****
Wow. Number 1 contendership. This was awesome. I'm already a fan of El Generico. It was my first time seeing Breeze and I am intrigued. Def looking forward to watching more of him. He rocks his gimmick like a star - but I'm afraid that may be his downfall - ala Fandango/Ziggler. Both guys performed flawlessly with incredible spots. The only reason its not as good as the next two is because I felt that the story was lacking.

Rusev vs Mojo Rawley
N/A - Squash match. Lana looking mighty fine as always. 

Charlotte vs Natalya
****1/2
Womens title on the line. I did not expect this to be so awesome. Even the crowd was chanting this is awesome. Great storytelling. Great spots. They did moves I had never seen before. Like Nattie said in the post show, everything came from their hearts and that was clearly visible. So much passion in this match. The ground game was amazing too and Im not usually into submission holds but these girls made it work. Charlotte's finisher is awesome. Flair was great too. I felt like Bret was only there for support, he didnt seem into it, but hes always been kind of boring. I want to add that Paige's promo was BAD. If she cut that promo on RAW, the crowd would have eaten her up.

Adrian Neville vs Tyson Kidd
****1/2
Title match. Damn these guys put on a clinic straight up. This was SPOTmania. Spot after spot. Amazing psychology. It was really cool when the crowd was chanting you got served at Neville haha. They must have rehearsed it a couple times bc it was almost perfect. Like Regal said its like wrestling yourself. The only reason it doesnt get 5 stars is bc I knew Neville was gonna win. I hope WWE does something with Kidd bc dude is talented as fuck. Red Arrow finisher is so goat.

The post-show was awesome. Triple H must be so proud, like raising your kids and sending them off into the sunset. Really great stuff. He knows talent when he sees it. Real recognizes real. Renee Young is not only hot, but shes super chill as well. Really great show overall, would recommend to everyone.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Cody holds women's wrestling standards up to the levels of Aja Kong and Dump Matsumoto. Can't really blame him for that, even if I can blame him for a million other things.



I'd honestly wish for more people to treat wrestling like that, too. Simply because something is good for its typical standards, doesn't necessitate it being great in the larger scheme of things. A good Ryback match isn't going to hold a candle to a good Lawler match. I'm honestly not sure why people rate women's wrestling so much easier than men's, when it's done "right". They're equally capable of possessing talent, as they are of having blowaway matches.

Subpar submission work from Natalya should be a bog standard. From all the pressure and training she was forced into/given by her family, I really wouldn't expect anything less. Too bad she sucks.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Leon Knuckles said:


> NXT TAKEOVER - What an amazing program. Triple H def knows what he is doing. I cant wait for him to take WWE to this level. Here is my quick review. I appreciate all and any comments/responses.
> 
> Adam Rose vs Camacho
> ***
> ...


I think the ratings are too extreme like Adam Rose vs. Camacho a three star? :. Anyway Arrival was better. EL Local is actually Ricardo Rodriguez so lol.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

did Nattie do that thing where she trades "look at me, I can wrestle!" holds but it doesn't look good and doesn't even have proper placement in the match


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Rose/Camacho **
ElLocal,Kalisto/Ascension **
Zahn/Breeze ****
Charlotte/Natalya ****
Neville/Kidd ***1/2

Definitely topped ArRival


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I like Charlotte much more than Natalya already.

Also, Rusev killing Mojo= *****


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

NXT Takeover Card:
Adam Rose vs. Camacho: *1/2
A decent showcase for Adam Rose nothing special at all.
CAL SCALE: 0.5
The Ascension vs. Kalisto and El Local: *3/4
Ascension squash match like usual.
CAL SCALE: 0.5
Tyler Breeze vs. Sami Zayn: ***3/4
This match was amazing both men put on an awesome match between eachother
CAL SCALE: 4
Charlotte vs Natalya: ***
Pretty damm good for a woman's match. THE RIGHT WOMAN WON.
CAL SCALE: 2
Adrian Neville vs. Tyson Kidd: ****
Best match of the night amazing moves, spots and psychology. They need more matches
CAL SCALE: 5

Overall CAL SCALE: 
12
Honestly this card might be better then Payback so go watch this awesome card right now :cheer


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> So I've never seen the match, but Trish/Mickie from WM 22 often gets touted as the best women's match in the company's history and the highest I've ever seen it rated was ***1/2. Anyone willing to share their thoughts on the match?


*Mickie James vs Trish Stratus - Wrestlemania 22*

Live PPV Version - Unedited.

x18vsus


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Finished watching NXT Takeover. Don't listen to the others. Kidd vs. Neville ruled and was easily MOTN. Excellent story told that I'll elaborate on when I'm out of work. And Zayn/Breeze ruled too.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Finished watching NXT Takeover. Don't listen to the others. Kidd vs. Neville ruled and was easily MOTN. Excellent story told that I'll elaborate on when I'm out of work. And Zayn/Breeze ruled too.


Looks like me and you agree on Kidd and Neville being match of the night :clap good job sir now I'm off to watch Trish matches


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Breeze/Zayn was totally awesome. Only match from Takeover I've seen so far but man was it ever good. Zayn people, just Zayn. I'm not gonna go all Funnyfaces and say he straight up carried Breeze, but damn he was easily the stand out performer of the match. Hes frighteningly good. No one sells better or has more fire in their comebacks. Highest praise I can give him: he seems to be a cross between Steamboat and Rey, blended with his own originality and move set. What an amazing wrestler he is.

FF- j/k with you man, you know I like your posts


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Don't get the high praise for Neville/Kidd, average match at best tbh, Neville looked good but Kidd was meh,maybe the fact that it was extremely hard for me to get behind hindered the match so much. 

Rewatched the women's match, went down to ***3/4 but still damn good 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I've never watched an episode of NXT in my life, weird.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Guys what card do you think was better NXT ArRival or Takeover? Both have amazing three main matches and crap undercards so what's better?


----------



## StarshipAwsome (Apr 28, 2014)

Ratings for Takeover: 

Rose/Camacho: * 1/2
The Ascension/Local & Kalisto: **
Breeze/Zayn: **** 1/4
Natalya/Charlotte: *** 1/2
Kidd/Nevile: *** 3/4


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

People who are relatively new to Zayn's work that are finally managing to wrap their heads around how good he is is heartwarming. I love it. Best thing is that said people have such an amazing back-catalogue of new matches to watch and you've barely scratched the surface. He's literally been as good as he is now for the past six years. Insanity. Now I'm going to watch Takeover.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

AwesomeBatman101 said:


> Guys what card do you think was better NXT ArRival or Takeover? Both have amazing three main matches and crap undercards so what's better?


Well Cesaro/Zayn > Zayn/Breeze
Emma/Paige < Charlotte/Nattie
Neville/Bo < Neville/ Kidd

Takeover also had good tag match, so I'll have to say Takeover


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Robbie said:


> People who are relatively new to Zayn's work that are finally managing to wrap their heads around how good he is is heartwarming. I love it. Best thing is that said people have such an amazing back-catalogue of new matches to watch and you've barely scratched the surface. He's literally been as good as he is now for the past six years. Insanity. Now I'm going to watch Takeover.



Count me as being squarely in this camp. Sure I'd heard of Generico before he was in NXT, but I had only seen a random match or two. Once he debuted as Zayn he got my attention, and then that 2/3 Falls match is when I became a card carrying member of the Sami Zayn fan club. All I ever check NXT for is to see if he's got a match. He's slowly but surely becoming my favorite guy to watch on the entire WWE roster, and he isn't even on the main roster yet. Outside of his amazing talent, the thing that strikes me about him is that he's just so damn likable. I haven't seen a baby face like him in a LONG time, where there really isn't one quality I find distasteful. He makes it damn near impossible not to get behind him during his matches, he sells like Ricky Morton and Ricky Steamboat combined, but he also times his come backs PERFECTLY. Just when you think he's out of it and all his lost, there he is firing back with some epic punches or finding a sliver of space to bust out one of his high risk maneuvers. My dream scenario that will never, ever happen is for his debut match to be a 60 minute draw with either Bryan or Cesaro. I just think he will only need 1 good length match for the entire WWE fan base to become full fledged marks for him. As long as WWE doesn't screw with him too much and they just let Zayn be Zayn, he's going to be a HUGE success when he gets his call up. If anyone has 3-4 match reccomendations that I can find somewhere on the internet I'd be very greatful. I've been looking around for the best Generico comp so I can get to experience his incredible Indy run first hand.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, id like to watch more Zayn too TBYH. Only watched the Generico/Steen (Steen Wolf) ladder match the other day.  Hoping to watch Takeover next week though.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

http://www.highspots.com/p/pwg-generico.html
http://www.rohwrestling.com/news/roh-tuesday-roll-out-el-generico

The PWG set is >>>>>>> the ROH set, but too much Generico is never enough. His 2011 was off the fucking charts. The PWG set is missing one of his greatest ever matches (vs. Steen @ BOLA 2011) but there's a match from the same event w/ Claudio so I get why it wasn't on there. I'm sure it's online somewhere but he also had a surefire MOTYC with a 2011 Sean Waltman in CHIKARA which is unbelievable, but it wasn't all Generico, Waltman definitely turned up with his worker boots on - If nobody can find a link, I may try and upload it at some point, maybe. There's a fantastic 2/3 falls match on youtube that he had with PAC as well, from IPW in the UK, their chemistry is sublime - I'm sure we'll eventually see it showcased on NXT. Avoid the ladder war with Steen from Final Battle 2012 though, it's horrid. I haven't seen Final Battle 2010 in a long time, but I can remember digging it so I'd sy go for that as well, it's on dailymotion so why not.

I'd make getting the PWG set a priority... The ROH one not so much, but if you learn to love him even more, then why not.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> http://www.highspots.com/p/pwg-generico.html
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/news/roh-tuesday-roll-out-el-generico
> 
> The PWG set is >>>>>>> the ROH set, but too much Generico is never enough. His 2011 was off the fucking charts. The PWG set is missing one of his greatest ever matches (vs. Steen @ BOLA 2011) but there's a match from the same event w/ Claudio so I get why it wasn't on there. I'm sure it's online somewhere but he also had a surefire MOTYC with a 2011 Sean Waltman in CHIKARA which is unbelievable, but it wasn't all Generico, Waltman definitely turned up with his worker boots on - If nobody can find a link, I may try and upload it at some point, maybe. There's a fantastic 2/3 falls match on youtube that he had with PAC as well, from IPW in the UK, their chemistry is sublime - I'm sure we'll eventually see it showcased on NXT. Avoid the ladder war with Steen from Final Battle 2012 though, it's horrid. I haven't seen Final Battle 2010 in a long time, but I can remember digging it so I'd sy go for that as well, it's on dailymotion so why not.
> ...


Thanks for that, i do have some Generico matches on disc. Have that one you mentioned:

El Generico vs. 1-2-3 Kid (Chikara 4/17/11)

Also have Best Of PWG comps for 2009/2010/2011/2012 that Seabs put together, so ill have to finally check them out for some Generico.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I'm not doing a review of the Clash of the Champions VIII but I did watch Brian Pillman vs. Norman the Lunatic. There aren't many 4 minute matches that are this good. I'll put it up there with some of my favorite short matches. Not quiet Giant vs. Meng but pretty high up there on my imaginary list of great short matches.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I disliked the Steen FB '10 match, but others might dig it if you enjoy weapon-centred hardcore matches with a lot of big showcase spots. A lot of my apathy stems largely from Steen who I just struggle to get invested in. I don't think he's capable of really creating that eerie and uncomfortable atmosphere that drives some of the best brawls without a litany of weapons, and I felt the flow of the match was really off with neither in control for long and a number of spot > stop > spot moments which just meant the work in between the more memorable moments/bumps were lacking. As much as I like Generico/Zayn I also don't think he has the strikes and punches to work in a brawl quite like others, and tbh I think both were exposed a bit in trying to work an organic payoff to a year long war. The crowd being horrendously quiet throughout also reinforced my opinion that they struggled to pace the bigger moments well, with the crowd only really responding to big bumps and the occasional sequence. The ending is fitting in terms of payoff, but I don't think either guy looked great in the match.

For the most part I really like Generico/Zayn, at least in terms of projecting sympathy and connecting instantly with crowds. He's undeniably an organic babyface who makes you invested in the match, and losing the mask has allowed him to emote through his facial expressions which again he looks to have a talent for, even though the Generico mask hiding his facial expressions also allowed him to project sympathy through his body language and mannerisms. My only real gripe with him stems occasionally from parts of his offence which I feel come off a little too 'cute' or overdone. He times his comebacks fine, but I caught a gif of his Orange Crush Powerbomb from the Breeze match, and the setup with him flipping Breeze into position reminded me of it from past Generico matches where I felt it came off as needless. Might be nit-picky to some, but it strikes me as the sort of spot that 'looks great' but is needless in comparison to just going for the Orange Crush without the complicated setup. That's about the only minor gripe with him, and it's only something that rears its head in the odd match. I loved the two Cesaro matches (2/3 Falls & Arrival) and felt there was only one moment where they got a tad cute with a sequence, but his strengths are present in most matches so it's never really something that makes me dislike him or react negatively to him. It just reminds me of people with less talent than Zayn who indulge in exaggerated setups for basic moves and it makes me wish a guy with more talent and ability than him would drop it and stick to the basics, since his grasp of the basic fundamentals is what makes him such a talented babyface.

WWE related. I'm hoping Sheamus/Cesaro get good time at Payback, as in fifteen minutes or thereabouts. Had Usos/Harper & Rowan been added I think the card might have surprised a few people, because often with WWE PPVs some of them with 'poor build' but a decent card usually surpass expectations because people focus so much on the lack of proper build that they neglect the actual match quality could still be strong. And I've always preferred a strong match w/ subpar build to an average/poor match w/ great build.

If Wyatt/Cena hadn't been overbooked to hell with these self-indulgent 'Main Event Storytelling' melodramatic moments in their past matches, I'd actually have even more faith in the card. Sadly I'm on the fence about it because LMS matches can either turn out very good or be ruined by relying on the 10 count and interrupting the flow, plus they seem determined to milk every ounce of Wyatt's uniqueness out of him to the point you feel inundated with 'boy oh boy that Wyatt is a strange fellow' every two minutes. Amazing to see how much more grounded and nuanced he was at the Rumble when he could still be unique and chilling, but in smaller spells and having the body of the match worked basicly, rather than the Spielberg esque drama they've aimed for in both Cena matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Only watched the Generico/Steen (Steen Wolf) ladder match the other day.


That match is probably No. 3 or 4 on my MOTD list.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not too big on Generico/Steen FB 2010 either. Too spot oriented for my taste. But their ladder match at SteenWolf is just nasty!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> That match is probably No. 3 or 4 on my MOTD list.



Chismo, even if you'd do prefer Hogan/Andre to Bret/Austin, you are now one of my favorite people because of that Sopranos sig. One of the finest episodes of any show in television history. The ketchup packet :lmao

Robbie: I'm gonna order that PWG set pronto, as you've pointed out before, you and I have very similar tastes in our wrestling so I have no doubt I'll love it.

WOOLCOCK: great post, and I completely agree when you were talking about guys getting too cute in the ring. That botch in the Breeze match was just completely unnecessary, they were already having a GREAT match, and while hitting that Orange Crush would have been sick, it wouldn't cause me to change my opinion of the match. I will say if you watch the whole sequence, they do a rather awesome job of recovering and leaving doubt in the fans mind that it could have just been Breeze countering the move as opposed to one of those blatant "YOU FUCKED UP!" Spots. Speaking of, I don't think there has ever been a chant I hate with more passion than the "YOU FUCKED UP" chant. It literally makes my blood boil hearing it, what an awful way to keep people from suspending their disbelief. Danielson countered it best in that KENTA match I believe, where he screamed back "I DONT EVER FUCK UP" then stomped the shit out of KENTA. Sorry, rant over.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I heard about that recovery, but without taking anything away from their instinctive ability to cover the spot, it really shouldn't have been necessary. To me, an Orange Crush Bomb in of itself is an impactful and impressive move, and the fact very few if any moves in WWE resemble it would only make Zayn's stand out more. Again, it just comes off as a needless complication to an already credible and impressive move, and it's more irksome when Zayn does it because it reminds me of less talented people who do stuff like that to compensate for their lesser ability.

"You Fucked Up" is probably the most obvious way for a crowd to needlessly involve themselves in a match with the sole purpose of getting themselves over. The most blatant 'wink wink guys, we're in on it too' chant going. Also irks me when most people do it instinctively and fail to recognise a botch could mean a legitimate injury, especially in spots to the outside floor.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Aren't Generico and Zayn the same person? Please excuse my lack of understanding in the NXT department.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

They are indeed. I just instinctively say Generico if I'm referencing a match from when he was under that persona, rather than calling him Zayn in relation to his pre NXT work.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Oh, thanks for the clear up, I took it as a match reference when you said "Zayn/Generico" then figured it might've been an impostor vs original match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Takeover ratingz:

Rose/Camacho: *3/4
Ascension/Local & Kalisto: **
Zayn/Breeze: ***3/4
Natalya/Charlotte: ***1/4
Neville/Kidd: ***1/4

The opener and Tag Title matches were meh for what they were. Camacho worked hard in his match, and Kalisto did a decent selljob, but they were only enough to make their matches not bad, but far from good as well. Still better than Arrival's non big-3 matches (the only thing Takeover has over Arrival actually).

Zayn/Breeze was fucking awesome. I was worried it might've turned into the movesy route, but they ALWAYS kept the character work trails in and it made the stuff senseful. Granted, the Orange Crush stuff was a blatant botch, but when it did hit, it was such a mark out moment. Tyler Breeze is very enjoyable. But without doubt, Sami Zayn deserves the fucking universe. Of course, Cesaro/Zayn was a full star better. Does that make this match any less awesome and MOTN by a country mile? Hell no.

Nattie/Charlotte = overrated too much? Submission trade-offs are fine if you can AT LEAST SELL THE GODDAMN WORK. Jesus, that just irks me. Finishing stretch was kinda fine. Match itself was very fun and kinda fine too. But to put this over Paige/Emma is blasphemous imo. To me, this was irritating at many points.

Neville/Kidd... again, fine for what it was. Not bad. Liked the whole setup with Kidd being the veteran and outdoing Neville at points. The "You got served" moment was pretty badass. However it was dull at many points and I couldn't get much into it. Dallas/Neville was quite better.

So yeah, I said I betted my nails this wouldn't be as good as Arrival and I was right. However, it did have 2 pretty fine matches and a brilliant one in the middle. Overall, good show.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Trying to find a link for Steen/Generico Ladder War (ROH 2012). Does anyone know?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Leon Knuckles said:


> Trying to find a link for Steen/Generico Ladder War (ROH 2012). Does anyone know?


Don't even bother with that match, trust me. ROH tried to copy the Steen Wolf greatness, and failed miserably. It was a bad match in front of your typically obnoxious NYC crowd.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Chismo, even if you'd do prefer Hogan/Andre to Bret/Austin, you are now one of my favorite people because of that Sopranos sig. One of the finest episodes of any show in television history. The ketchup packet :lmao












Oh, and Andre/Hogan > > >

Gotta find their SNME match, I bet it's better than Austin/Hart too. I think I haven't seen it in good 15 years, I believe my cousin still has it on VHS somewhere.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Don't even bother with that match, trust me. ROH tried to copy the Steen Wolf greatness, and failed miserably. It was a bad match in front of your typically obnoxious NYC crowd.


Well I havent seen the PWG match either. I just need a link.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Takeover thoughts:

Breeze/Zayn was very good but I'm not quite as high on it as most people seem to be. The Orange Crush botch hurt it for me. Even though they improvised and recovered as best they could (it wasn't a WOAT botch if you get what I'm saying) it felt like that was meant to be the climax of the match so for that spot not to come off smoothly was disappointing. Obviously that doesn't cancel out all the good work that came before it. It's still a very good match with Breeze giving me a strong first impression and Zayn producing another praise worthy performance. As much as I love Danielson I gotta say Zayn is the best seller in the company. He's so damn good at conveying fatigue and looking like he's out of it after a big shot. That combined with his scintillating offense leads to great finishing runs in his matches and that was evident here. Really liked the exchange leading to the Blue Thunder Bomb with Zayn having to fight to hit it, and the super kick sequence was dope. Finish was good too. I can't remember seeing an inadvertent low blow being used like that. Creative way to give Breeze a big win but still leave an out for why Zayn lost. All in all a very good match that everyone should check out. I can't quite call it great (mainly because of the botch) but I'm not going to argue with anyone who does. MOTN and added to THE LIST.

I don't get the criticism for Natalya/Charlotte. The only time I thought they did an actively bad job selling the submissions was during and after the figure four/sharpshooter exchange. Apart from that I wasn't bothered by anything they did or didn't do. They didn't sell a great deal throughout the match but most of those holds were just to gain control, nothing that really required a shit ton of selling. By WWE women's standards (which are low of course) it was very good. I'm not on the same page as the people giving it four stars and calling it a MOTYC, not by any means, but I can happily say I enjoyed it. Charlotte will be a good addition to the main roster when she gets called up. 

PS. Flair on the outside and with dat emotion post-match 

Neville/Kidd was pretty good. Nothing more than that. From an execution standpoint it was strong but this was lacking something in other departments. I liked the one-upmanship stuff early on. Couldn't get into the second half of the match though. It's not essential viewing but if you're a fan of either guy or in the mood to see two good athletes trade nice offense I'd recommend it. I can see why some people liked it a lot. Wasn't quite for me. 



Spoiler: THE LIST



1. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
2. Cesaro v Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL (2/27/14)
3. Daniel Bryan v Triple H - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
4. Bray Wyatt v Daniel Bryan - Royal Rumble (1/26/14)
5. Evolution v The Shield - Extreme Rules (5/4/14)
6. Cesaro v John Cena - Raw (2/17/14)
7. Randy Orton v Batista v Daniel Bryan - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
8. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Main Event (4/8/14)
9. Bray Wyatt v John Cena - WrestleMania XXX (4/6/14)
10. Randy Orton v Cesaro v Christian v Daniel Bryan v John Cena v Sheamus - Elimination Chamber (2/23/14)
11. Daniel Bryan v Randy Orton - Raw (2/3/14)
12. Sami Zayn v Tyler Breeze - NXT Takeover (5/29/14)
13. Corey Graves v Sami Zayn - NXT (4/3/14)
14. Christian & Sheamus v The Real Americans - Raw (2/10/14)
15. The Shield v The Wyatt Family - Raw (3/3/14)
16. The Real Americans v The Rhodes Brothers - Main Event (3/18/14)
17. Sheamus v Cesaro - Payback (6/1/14)
18. 
19.
20.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WWE.com's list of The Shield's 10 best 6-man tag matches:

10. vs. Dolph Ziggler & The Usos (RAW 9/30/13)
9. vs. Randy Orton & Team Hell No (Smackdown 6/14/13)
8. vs. Sheamus, Ryback, & Chris Jericho (RAW 2/18/13)
7. vs. Kofi Kingston & Team Hell No (RAW 5/20/13)
6. vs. John Cena, Sheamus, & Ryback (Elimination Chamber 2013)
5. vs. The Wyatt Family (RAW 3/3/14)
4. vs. The Undertaker & Team Hell No (4/22/13)
3. vs. The Wyatt Family (Elimination Chamber 2014)
2. TLC Match vs. Ryback & Team Hell No (TLC 2012)
1. vs. Evolution (Extreme Rules 2014)

Thoughts? I'd switch out No. 9 with their match from RAW on June 3rd last year and No. 4 would be farther down my list.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ludicrous to think that Shield/Evolution is the best Shield 6-man. Top 3 sure, but THE best? NOPE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sure they just put it up there to hype their next PPV match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Oh, and Andre/Hogan > > >
> 
> Gotta find their SNME match, I bet it's better than Austin/Hart too. I think I haven't seen it in good 15 years, I believe my cousin still has it on VHS somewhere.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Wyatt Family is the best six man tag match for The Shield, no doubt.

Charlotte/Natalya was enjoyable but I don't have it at four stars like some do either. It's still better than any divas match we'll see on Raw or Smackdown, but it's not as good as some people make it out to be imo.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Halloween Havoc 1989

*Mike Rotunda vs Z-Man
*
I was kind of bored if I’m being truthful here. Z-Man is supposed to be this fiery young babyface and he’s just not that interesting. He’s supposed to be what Brian Pillman is at this time and it gets pretty annoying to watch. They did tell a solid story with Z-Man trying to hang with the veteran and that sort of worked and the ending was fitting. I’m not really a fan of Rotunda and even less of a fan of Z-Man but it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be.
**½ *


*The Samoan Swat Team w/The Big Kahuna vs. The Midnight Express and Steve Williams w/Jim Cornette*

Good stuff here. This is probably the most I’ve enjoyed Dr. Death since I started watching wrestling from this time period. The Samoans come across as wild and out control and Williams just shows no concern about that. In fact he often seemed eager to fight them which just made him looks like a total badass. Things were on the brink of going out of control to start the match and the place would just explode whenever Williams would get in the ring and kick ass. Eventually Eaton makes a mistake and the Samoans isolate him for a while. It was a great isolation segment as they really made it look like he was getting his ass kicked and the way they went about it made them seem smart but also wild (if that makes sense). You would see them do some basic tactics to distract the ref but than at other times they would be on the brink of just charging at the corner. The hot tag to Williams was one of the best I’ve seen in a while and the crowd just ate it up. He was really on his game for this one. The ending was a little sloppy and Stan Lane came in, botched a neck breaker, had this awkward looking encounter with one of the Samoans and then they took it home. Kind of a weak way to end what was otherwise a really good match. Glad it got plenty of time as well. 
****½ *


*The Cuban Assassin vs. Tommy Rich*

There were a lot of armbars from both guys and not a lot of arm selling. The crowd hated this and I can’t say I was a fan either. Even I know that in 1989 this match was dated. They didn’t do anything interesting and when a match doesn’t last for 10 minutes you shouldn’t have the face locking in armbars for long periods of time. 
***



_NWA Tag Team Championship Match_
*The Dynamic Dudes w/Jim Cornette vs. The Fabulous Freebirds(c) (Hayes and Garvin)*

I want to start out and say that if you liked this match nearly as much as I did you are probably a wrestling nerd. This was pretty awesome and whoever called this match deserves a ton of credit. This show took place in Philadelphia and The Dudes were the faces and they were booed heavily while the Freebirds were more over than any of the faces we had seen far (maybe with the exception of Steve Williams). I’m assuming that Hayes and Garvin (along with Cornette at ringside) were able to make this work so well. It wasn’t your standard match in the slightest. The Freebirds didn’t work an isolation segment or do anything like that. Instead the Dudes were in control most of the match but the Freebirds would get some offense in from time to time that the crowd just ate up. It was awesome to see how smart they worked this match and they did it in a way where the Freebirds would still be heels in front of other crowds. 

The Dudes were smart enough to keep their face antics to a minimum (I think at one point Cornette can be seen telling them stop clapping on the ring apron). Their offense also actually looked good as well here, like a lot better than normal. While the crowd wasn’t what was expected they were pretty awesome as they reacted to everything in the match. Without knowing much about wrestling maybe I wouldn’t be too impressed with this match. But knowing that the crowd was booing the faces during a time period when that didn’t happen too often and once you realize how they probably had to drastically change their game plan this is really impressive. It’s what you’re supposed to do in wrestling. They responded to the crowd and gave them a match that they wanted to see. They sort of reversed the face/heel dynamic without having the faces act like heels and the heels act like faces. Maybe it’s because I’m almost positive that this whole thing must have been called on the fly (and even if it wasn’t the fact they knew beforehand what to give the crowd was impressive) due to the unexpected crowd and that something like this would never happen today but I loved this match. I kind of want to force John Cena to watch this match so he realizes that when the crowd is booing him he doesn’t have to wrestle as a pure face. Really cool match that shows how smart some of the guys in this match were.
****½* 


*The Steiner Brothers vs. Doom w/Woman
*
When the Steiners were on offense this was really good. However Doom controlled most of the match and they really weren’t that great. Butch Reed is making a case for why he’s my least favorite wrestler. Doom is supposed to be made up of these two big monsters and Reed just can’t wrestle like a monster. he wrestles like he’s a small chickenshit heel and it was just so out of character for what Doom was supposed to be. Simmons was OK but nothing special either but he did at least wrestle like you would expect someone playing his character would. I just want to say again how great the Steiners looked on offense. Few things are more impressive than seeing Ron Simmons take a German Suplex from one of the Steiners. Anyway the match dragged at times and Butch Reed annoyed me but it was still passable.
**¾ *



_United States Championship Match_
*Lex Luger(c) vs. Brian Pillman 
*
I think this is one of Luger’s best matches that doesn’t involve Flair. Pillman was just the man as the underdog in this one. He created that, “Is he really going to pull this off?” feeling that’s amazing in a match because some of his offense came across as so desperate. On the other hand he also got in a lot more offense than I expected. You could tell it bothered Luger and it also made it look like Pillman could hang with Luger hold for hold. The match was really good but it had a few issues, Luger being in control of the match dragged at times and there was this one point where Pillman locked in an armbar and Luger could be seen talking shit to the crowd. He didn’t appear to be in any pain and Pillman was emotionless when he had this locked in. It just looked like Pillman was gently holding onto Luger’s arm, it was just a really bad visual during an otherwise very good match. 
****½ *


*The Road Warriors vs. The Skyscrapers w/Teddy Long*

After the initial opening minutes of seeing the teams collide I quickly lost interest. Yeah they were supposed to be pitting the two biggest badasses against each other but the Skyscrapers just aren’t that good. The story was simple enough as you just had a bunch of big and tough guys slugging it out. I did like that the Skyscrapers didn’t have to resort to cheating to take control of the match. There were some heel tactics later on in the match but in the beginning the Skyscrapers were able to dominate the Road Warriors on their own. Beginning was actually very good but they couldn’t keep me interested for too long. Not a bad match but not a very good one either.
**


_Thunderdome Cage Match_
*Ric Flair and Sting w/Ole Anderson vs. Terry Funk and The Great Muta w/Gary Hart*

I have mixed feelings here. On one hand this was a really entertaining brawl but on the other there was a lot of dumb stuff involved. The one thing that really bothered me was that guys would keep climbing up the side of the cage. I have no idea what the point in doing that was since they couldn’t escape from the cage and climbing the cage gave you no benefit. But Funk and Muta climbed the cage constantly and we ended up with a bunch of fighting on the side of the cage. I also found it strange how much of an ass kicking Funk and Muta got. There was a little bit towards the end where the heels looked close to winning but most of the match was Sting and Flair. The use of the cage just felt off to me and Funk and Flair didn’t recapture the magic that they had at GAB and would have later on at Clash of the Champions. It was solid but considering the parties involved I wanted it to be more than that. I can’t give it that bad of a rating because it was over 20 minutes long and kept me entertained but it was a pretty big letdown.
****¼ *​

The show was OK. The Freebirds match is worth seeing because it shows how good the guys involved were at controlling a crowd. There’s a lot of good on the show but not a lot of great.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Zayn/Breeze ***1/2 Good match, the botch didnt bother me at all, I think it looked better the way it panned out. Clever finish.

Natalya/Charlotte ****1/4 Stunned at this. Never seen Charlotte wrestle, dont like Natalya and I loathe womens wrestling but this was AWESOME. Best womens match I've ever seen.

Neville/Kidd ***1/2 Another good match to round off a good show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

To add the final note to the El Generico/Sami Zayn topic: watch everything he has to offer except for the ROH ladder match vs Steen. He's actively _that_ accessible. The PWG set he got left me saying there should be "these other matches" added and the set is already ballistic in quality. Worst case scenario from any of his lesser than great matches are you'll still get entertainment from 'em. Then the rest that are superb, whew, are they ever. The absolute best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

FFS i want to start my own WCW project and now you go and throw some Generico into the mix? Fuckers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

An El Generico career retrospective is the project of projects right there. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Found this old thread regarding El Generico matches: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/557411-el-genericos-best-matches.html


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


>


:mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's actively the best match I got from Andre during his more "immobile" days. Why he wasn't ever given the gold for a spell is kind of beyond me. Guess having Bob Backlund dominate for years during Andre's prime is why. Ok, I can live w/that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I'm not surprised at the fact that everyone is putting over (overrating) Charlotte/Natayla. It fits the definition of a "great" match by today's standards.

Oh and Zayn/Breeze gets ***3/4. The botch really does ruin it for me. Not because it's a botch but even if it were hit perfectly, in the grander scheme of things, it would not have meant anything. It served no purpose and for such a fancy looking move that the WWE audience is not used to seeing, Zayn would have buried his own move. Other than that this was a really fun match. And it was my first Breeze match and he impressed the hell out of me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Would have buried his move to debut it, what?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just google searched "El Generico vs" and clicked the first match that popped up. It was Generico vs Davey Richards from 2010 Anniversary show. Now, I've never seen a Richards match, but I've heard people shit on him in here a ton and say that he's like an indie Kurt Angle in full retard mode all the time. It's only one match, but I didn't see that at ALL here. This was a damn good match, things start off slow and Generico seems really unsure of himself, but eventually the pace picks up and Richards sees an opening and starts going to work on Genericos shoulder. Apparently his finish is the Kimura so that makes sense I guess. Generico sell really really well, and Richards does some AWESOME looking offense that looks really brutal. Only one time in the match did I think there was a lack of selling, that's when Generico does a half Nelson suplex, and Richards pops right back up and hits a Brainbuster. He does however collapse immediately afterwards and lays there like he's spent for a while afterwards so I'll give him a slight pass. Otherwise this was just a damn fine match to watch, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I know it's only 1 match but I didn't see any full retard stuff from Davey.

Rating: ***3/4


Oh snap, I just saw a link for Danielson vs Jushin Thunder Liger. Sorry, Generico binge has to be put on hold, I simply gotta see this :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just google searched "El Generico vs" and clicked the first match that popped up. It was Generico vs Davey Richards from 2010 Anniversary show. Now, *I've never seen a Richards match,* but I've heard people shit on him in here a ton and say that he's like an indie Kurt Angle in full retard mode all the time. It's only one match, but I didn't see that at ALL here. This was a damn good match, things start off slow and Generico seems really unsure of himself, but eventually the pace picks up and Richards sees an opening and starts going to work on Genericos shoulder. Apparently his finish is the Kimura so that makes sense I guess. Generico sell really really well, and Richards does some AWESOME looking offense that looks really brutal. Only one time in the match did I think there was a lack of selling, that's when Generico does a half Nelson suplex, and Richards pops right back up and hits a Brainbuster. He does however collapse immediately afterwards and lays there like he's spent for a while afterwards so I'll give him a slight pass. Otherwise this was just a damn fine match to watch, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I know it's only 1 match but I didn't see any full retard stuff from Davey.
> 
> Rating: ***3/4
> 
> ...


I envy you so much. Try watching watching Final Battle 2011 and you'll know why.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, fair enough to my last point. I don't care for Generico vs Richards :lmao

although Generico was good in it. Davey was crap, like usual though. Those first five minutes where he didn't have a clue at what he was doing. Ughhhh.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Would have buried his move to debut it, what?



It's a pretty freaking sweet move and to get a 2 count on it just cheapens it imo.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's never won Generico a match in the decade+ he's used it soooo...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Ok, fair enough to my last point. I don't care for Generico vs Richards :lmao
> 
> although Generico was good in it. Davey was crap, like usual though. Those first five minutes where he didn't have a clue at what he was doing. Ughhhh.



Well I didn't think he was bad at all. And to make sure I'm not crazy, I clicked on Steen vs Richards Border Wars, it's the match where Steen wins the title for the first time. First Steen match I've seen, second Richards match I've seen, and I think it's AWESOME. Steen was just such a complete bad ass, who also manages to sell well on the run. I swear it looked like he was gonna break Daveys neck 2-3 times but I guess he's pretty much a pro at making shit look deadly while protecting the guy. Like I said, I can't find a single thing to complain about with this match, great way to be introduced to Steen.

Rating: ****


Then I saw a nice little ditty, Danielson vs Castagnolli from sometime in 2008. This was absolutely fabulous as well, loved them breaking in the middle of the match to mock each other. They also work a super sweet short arm scissors sequence. And I see Danielson as been doing that bridging-knuckle lock-monkey flip sequence that he busted out against Cena at SS 2013 for a while. Glad he doesn't do it all the time, as it was truly special seeing it in that match. Kinda weird seeing Cesaro with more hair and wearing tights, but you could already see he was an amazing wrestler even 6+ years ago. Can't wait till these guys get to do battle on the big stage of the WWE, their chemistry is already off the charts.

Final rating: ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only think the Steen vs Richards Border Wars match is average. Thanks to Steen, but I don't remember Davey being as horseshit like he normally is. Only in a few points, rather the entire bout. Their No DQ rematch from Best in the World in June 2012 however is a good bit of fun. I like that one. And as far as Generico vs Richards matches go, they never had a good one to their credit. Not even in PWG. God that 33 minute one. Davey in that time is hell. Even w/Generico in the mix. I can't.

Gonna assume Danielson vs Claudio you saw was the Northern Navigation match as I know that's available on youtube.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Only think the Steen vs Richards Border Wars match is average. Thanks to Steen, but I don't remember Davey being as horseshit like he normally is. Only in a few points, rather the entire bout. Their No DQ rematch from Best in the World in June 2012 however is a good bit of fun. I like that one. And as far as Generico vs Richards matches go, they never had a good one to their credit. Not even in PWG. God that 33 minute one. Davey in that time is hell. Even w/Generico in the mix. I can't.
> 
> Gonna assume Danielson vs Claudio you saw was the Northern Navigation match as I know that's available on youtube.



That's the one, Northern Navigation. Badass match.

I decided to stop my Richards viewing at 2 matches, no sense willfully going out there and looking for garbage. I am curious as to why people hate him so much (not in a heel heat kind of way). Like I said, he wasn't the stand out performer in either match but he wasn't rubbish either. Oh well.

So I saw a link pop up for Styles/Joe Turning Point 2005 and I just couldn't resist. Yep, still the best TNA match I've ever seen. Those 1 counts at the end might bother some people, but I dug it, it helped get people squarely behind AJ and really added drama to the match. Plus it's not like he hopped up after the 1 counts, he just laid there exhausted, so the surge of adrenaline thing totally works there. If I had to give it a rating, right around ****1/2 seems fair.


Ohhhhh. Hot dog. Just found a Danielson vs Tyler Black match. Never seen them go at it in ROH, only singles match I've seen from them was last years match on Raw, which was beyond stellar and one of the top 5 Raw matches all year.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It's never won Generico a match in the decade+ he's used it soooo...


I think you missed my point. I'm saying that the WWE Universe isn't used to moves like that. In WWE superkicks and ace crushers end mathces. On the indy circuit, those moves deal as much damage as a chop. So when the Dubyah Dubyah E Universe sees a move like the Orange Crush they go "Holy shit!" and to see it not end a match they'll basically have no reaction to it after some time.

Imho, it's a useless move anyway. So now that I think about it, I don't give a fuck lol.

I remember enjoying the hell out of a HDNet Black/Danielson match back in '09. Keep in mind, however, that my taste in wresting changed since then. Don't know what I think about it today. 

And since we've been discussing other wrestling outside of WWE lately, and since we're on the topic of Davey Richards, I wanna bring up one of the most polarized matches of all time. Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin, Showdown in the Sun Night Two.

Haven't seen it since but I definitely remember not giving two fucks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's the one, Northern Navigation. Badass match.
> 
> I decided to stop my Richards viewing at 2 matches, no sense willfully going out there and looking for garbage. I am curious as to why people hate him so much (not in a heel heat kind of way). Like I said, he wasn't the stand out performer in either match but he wasn't rubbish either. Oh well.
> 
> ...


I'd elaborate why he's garbage, but it may take too long. Plus, I'm sick of talking about the rube.

Joe vs Styles from Turning Point '05 is rather perfect. Still isn't my favorite TNA match though. AMW vs Triple X steel cage from Turning Point 2004 will always be. Granted it's close to a 1a) - 1b) kind of deal. Fabulous stuff.

I hope you watch the Danielson vs Black matches in order. That's my suggestion.

2008: Breakout - Southern Navigation - New Horizons
2009: 4/25 - 5/9 - 5/27
2013: RAW 6/10 - Smackdown 9/6

Also, some tags & other matches in chronological order:

Black w/Jimmy Jacobs vs Danielson w/Austin Aries - ROH Respect is Earned II (holy SHIT @ this match, tbhayley)
Danielson vs Black vs Nigel McGuinness vs Claudio Castagnoli - ROH Death Before Dishonor VI
Danielson vs Black vs Kenny Omega - ROH Bound By Hate
Black w/Jimmy Jacobs vs Danielson w/Austin Aries - ROH The French Connection
Danielson vs Black vs Jimmy Jacobs vs Austin Aries - ROH Caged Collision
Danielson vs Black vs Jerry Lynn vs Austin Aries - ROH HD Net 6/6/09

Plus you know about practically every Shield vs Danielson match from last year. (Y)


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Smackdown 5/30
Cesaro/Kingston tonight was short but good.
Would like to see a Big E/Titus match get more time.
Sheamus/BNB & the LMS match were ok.



sharkboy22 said:


> And since we've been discussing other wrestling outside of WWE lately, and since we're on the topic of Davey Richards, I wanna bring up one of the most polarized matches of all time. Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin, Showdown in the Sun Night Two.
> 
> Haven't seen it since but I definitely remember not giving two fucks.


Watched the first 10 mins of the match before turning my computer off and going to sleep. Haven't watched it again since.

Someone mentioned Kevin Steen vs. Davey Richards from _Best in the World: Hostage Crisis_ which i thought was very good.
The action, the crowd (nyc fans crapping on a babyface Richards) and Steve Corino's commentary.


----------



## KingLobos (Apr 10, 2013)

Been a long time. Started AE retrospective in August last year with 1997. And just now am in Feb 1999. Watching EVERYTHING. Shows, side shows, PPVs, Heat's, British PPVs. I think FunnyFaces did the same thing.

Obviously am a Rock fan. Finished the Rock-Mankind feud. And here's my ratings.

Rock vs Mankind - SS98 - *** - Didn't really like this match. I thought it was slow, crowd was HEAVILY burnt out the entire PPV. And the ending seemed forced. It's not bad by any means. Had a couple cool spots as well. Just not something I would want to watch again. Rock and Mankind didn't have the chemistry yet of their later matches.

Rock vs Mankind - Rock Bottom - **1/2 - Don't remember this at all except for the ending. That should say it all.

Rock vs Mankind - Raw Jan 99 - **1/2 - Epic ending, legendary moment. Match was typical AE raw match. 

Rock vs Mankind - RR 99 - **** - Best match up until this point. Chemistry is full on between both of them. Everyone knows the match so I won't say anything.

Rock vs Mankind - Halftime Heat - *** - LOL

Rock vs Mankind - St Valentine's Day - **** VERY surprised at how good this match is. I didn't remember it at all going in. I think this is indeed better than RR99. The spot where Rock flips Mankind off the announce table into the ring bell was HOLY SHIT worthy.

Rock vs Mankind - Ladder RAW - ***3/4 - Like this one too. Austin on commentary was great. Mankind looked VERY strong in this one. The strongest he looked in the entire feud. I suspect that was the tradeoff. He would lose the belt, but he gets to kick Rock's ass finally.

Damn that's a lot of matches for a feud. LOL WWF definitely got their money's worth with it. Now I will go away for another 5 months and return when I am deep into 2000 and can review the Rock - Triple H series. Adios.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I managed to stay somehow completely unspoiled for Takeover until for no reason I decided to check out the MOTYC thread and it the was the LAST post. Fuck... oh well, gonna go watch Takeover now.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Just finished Steen/Generico FINAL BATTLE 2010

HOLY SHIT FIVE STARS

/thread lol


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Steen wolf>all


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

BOLA 2011 > all


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'd elaborate why he's garbage, but it may take too long. Plus, I'm sick of talking about the rube.
> 
> Joe vs Styles from Turning Point '05 is rather perfect. Still isn't my favorite TNA match though. AMW vs Triple X steel cage from Turning Point 2004 will always be. Granted it's close to a 1a) - 1b) kind of deal. Fabulous stuff.
> 
> ...



Damn, I managed to find all 3 matches they had in 2008, so I shall definitely be watching them in order. Thanks a lot for the heads up.

Am I alone in being totally in love with the Legends Roundtable Discussions they have on the Network? I've seen every single one of them, and I check just about every day to see if they have added a new one. They just added "Rivalries II" so I'm super excited for that. I just love hearing Ps Hayes, Foley, Flair, Okerlund, JR, Lawler, etc. Talk about different topics in wrestling. There isn't a single bad show out there. For anyone that enjoys listening to guys who actually know what they are talking about discuss wrestling, I can't urge you enough to check them out. They are just a pure joy for me to watch.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I hear that one is :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I managed to stay somehow completely unspoiled for Takeover until for no reason I decided to check out the MOTYC thread and it the was the LAST post. Fuck... oh well, gonna go watch Takeover now.


To avoid spoilers i stay away from any wrestling related sites and avoid searching for anything wrestling related.

Basically i'm off the internet till i watch the show :lol


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

bme said:


> To avoid spoilers i stay away from any wrestling related sites and avoid searching for anything wrestling related.
> 
> Basically i'm off the internet till i watch the show :lol


This ^


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> BOLA 2011 > all


Funny you mentioned this. I just finished watching the entire show about 5 minutes ago. Extremely overrated imo. Almost every match is booked in such a way that it ends in some form of a roll up. Don't get me wrong, the first round matches were good. Then I started noticing the pattern. 

As for the Generico/Steen, I get why they worked it in such a way but the match is a spot/finisher fest with not much substance in between. 

I don't think I'll rate any match on that show about ***3/4 tbh which is still good. Still, not the GOAT level people made it out to be years ago. 

Speaking of overrated shows, what about TPI '04? Only matches I truly enjoyed were Punk/Aries, Joe/Black dude (***** for the booking and I'm being serious) and the main event. Didn't even dig Punk/Danielson much tbh. The rest of the card can fuck off imo. The entire tournament is 10 hours and yeah it sounds cool till you realize there's a bunch of useless, horrible shit on the undercard.

If you tell me TPI '04 is one of the best booked cards, I'll agree. But as an overall show, I can't put it on GOAT level. It's well-booked in that for a 10 hour show it's paced well. It's horrible because you gotta wait about 2 hours for a good match.

EDIT: Are those new Roundtable episodes, or just re-runs?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ive only seen Finlay vs STEEN from that show, that match is :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

There are quite a few of the roundtables, most are gems thought. Flair is massive cunt in them but he is FLAIR so he gets a pass. Definitely recommend watching them


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, nothing is topping their BOLA 2011 match. Period.

The Final Battle 2010 match is one of their weaker bouts. Goes much too long. All their other matches in 2010 blow it away. Not like even really dislike this match. I just don't happen to love it. Only match I'd place lower than this would be the crummy Ladder match from Final Battle 2012. Everything else between the two is great.

And I love every Mankind vs Rock match. Halftime Heat is :mark: St. Valentine's Day Massacre has some sick Foley bumps in it. The flip off the announce table & steel steps throw. Holy shit, those are absurd.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Bryan's definitely not giving the titles up, I don't think. Mainly because it seems to be a minor injury in which he'll be back soon, so I see no point in taking it off of him.

What I think is that Brie will allow herself to be fired/against Daniel's wishes. Before that happens, though, she'll say something like "I've always wanted to do this first" or "I'm gonna get my money's worth first." Then she's gonna attack Stephanie.

This will prompt Stephanie to say on RAW that she's not gonna fire Brie, because she'd rather beat Brie up instead.

Cue a match between the two of them at the next PPV.

Based on Stephanie's comments she's given in outside interviews, she actually seems interested in wrestling again, so this wouldn't surprise me at all.

If the match happens, I think she'll stick the other divas on Brie first or something. It also might be the way that AJ makes her return.

~~~~~~

Watched Nattie/Charlotte and it was good. *** 1/2 - *** 3/4. Don't see the criticism. They weren't really no selling, and I didn't find any of it spammy at all. I think that people really over-exgaggerate that so much. Especially 'cause it seems selective when that's brought up and when it's not.

I liked the constant stoppage, like they were both aware of how good each other were, and were trying to get back into the right mental state to fight again.

Very, very, solid match.

Gonna watch that entire AJ/Nattie Main Event match now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NO!!! Why did they change Tyler Breeze's theme music!?!? Damn it man, that was one of the best things about him. Had this epic theatrical feel to it. 

sharkboy, you're out of your mind. Steen/Generico from BOLA 2011 is one of the most iconic pieces of storytelling I've ever seen in indy wrestling (or maybe even all of wrestling). Much more than a spot/finisher fest.

Is Adam Rose gay? And why the hell did they stick Kalisto with Ricardo Rodriguez???


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did he really try to say Generico vs Steen from BOLA was a "spotfest"? Why does he even bother w/Indie wrestling when it's all the same w/him.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

:lmao :lmao :lmao

I just read some old post of mine from 2012 where I complete shit on Sami Calliahn. WTF? How did I become a Callihan mark then? I remember I used to shit on him because he'd do that fucking bicycle kick at the start of every match and then the face washes and then 2 minutes later they meant nothing. But how the fuck did I become a mark for him? I'm trying to remember the match that made me a fan. I think it was one of those cases where I just decided to give a guy a chance. I dunno. It's amazing how opinions can change.




The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Ive only seen Finlay vs STEEN from that show, that match is :mark:


It's probably the best match on the card tbh. Bucks vs KOW was extremely disappointing imo. It was fun but not as great as it sounds on paper.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I just like a little selling in between. Don't get me wrong the match is all sorts of fun and the ending is HOT but I just don't like matches that go into big move over kill category which imo it did. Maybe if I watched the match on its own I would have enjoyed it like most, but this was an entire night of "1...2.. kick out!" Shit gets overbearing sometimes. 

And yeah, I'll admit I indie wrestling isn't my cup of tea. I'm just more into 80s NWA stuff and that style of wrestling which is only visible in the first 5 to 10 minutes of an indy match before everybody forgets to sell everything. 

Imo, SteenWolf>BOLA 2011.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> And yeah, I'll admit I indie wrestling isn't my cup of tea. I'm just more into 80s NWA stuff and that style of wrestling which is only visible in the first 5 to 10 minutes of an indy match before everybody forgets to sell everything.


Yeah, that's not a gross generalization. Not to mention it doesn't make a lick of sense.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Anyone else who has watched Takeover on the Network, does the video skip ahead a few seconds at random times? It happened for me during Zayn/Breeze and it pissed me off. Did the same thing for Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Happens to me all the time when I'm watching something live on my Ps3, its extremely annoying. It worked smoothly on my Laptop, but it broke a few weeks ago and I'm on the back up which doesnt so well, so I'm back to buffering ps3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yeah, that's not a gross generalization. Not to mention it doesn't make a lick of sense.


The first 5 to 10 minutes of the typical wanna-be Davey Richards' indy match (where they chain wrestle for the sake of chain wrestling) is the closet thing to 80s NWA style wrestling. Cause after that first 5 to 10 minutes...BRAINBUSTAAAA!!!

Whatever, I'm tired of having this convo. I watch indie wrestling cause I simply like wrestling and there are guys on the indy circuit that I do in fact like. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that i have to sift through a lot of shit to find the good stuff.

Also, the common misconception is that I don't like the hard hitting stuff and kicking out at one. Well, I do in fact like that sort of stuff and get excited as fuck when I see it. Providing of course, I have not seen it 8 times already for the night. 

Maybe describing the match as a "spot/finisher fest" was not in fact the best choice of words. It is a term that I do use loosely. For now, my opinion is that they could have sold a little bit more to give the moves more meaning. E.g. the tornado DDT on the outside. Maybe, I'll re-watch the match and see if my opinion changes. It's not that I hate the match. As a matter of fact, I marked the fuck out in the final few minutes. It just didn't leave me like SteenWolf did.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Rock/Mankind (SSeries '98) is definitely their weakest match, actually the SSeries '98 show was bad. Never cared much for tournaments they look good on paper till you realize some wrestlers have no business being in it.

Mixed feelings on Breeze's music change. Someone with a huge ego would sing their own entrance music but his previous music fit his model gimmick so well. 
Zayn's music change seems like they wanted something the crowd could get involved in.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Turns out I wasn't the only one on the Callihan hating bandwagon back then either.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...an-announced-evolve-9-nyc-plus-more-news.html

I love re-visiting old threads. It's amazing how things change seemingly overnight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone else who has watched Takeover on the Network, does the video skip ahead a few seconds at random times? It happened for me during Zayn/Breeze and it pissed me off. Did the same thing for Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival.


It's sporadic when using the Network. Once in a blue moon it does it to me too. In fact it did it during the Ministry vs Brood match from Backlash '99 today. Just a standard blip w/the Network.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cody, you are a smart lad, can I get a match suggestion from el network?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So... yeah, kinda think people are going overboard with the Charlotte/Natalya love. Good match (hella good by WWE diva standards) but half the match was just the same two submissions. AJ/Natalya and Paige/Emma were both a bit better imo.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone else who has watched Takeover on the Network, does the video skip ahead a few seconds at random times? It happened for me during Zayn/Breeze and it pissed me off. Did the same thing for Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival.





NAITCH said:


> Happens to me all the time when I'm watching something live on my Ps3, its extremely annoying. It worked smoothly on my Laptop, but it broke a few weeks ago and I'm on the back up which doesnt so well, so I'm back to buffering ps3



I have this problem when I watch the Network in my room. If I go downstairs (in the same room as the router) it doesn't give me any problems aside from occasionally dropping video quality for a few seconds (which even Netflix does in my house). 


Honestly with indy guys that get signed there is this assumption that they're really popular with indy fans on this site and that's not always the case. Ambrose had a ton of people that didn't like him before he was signed. Same with Rollins actually (though in fairness he did get so much better in NXT).

I never really considered myself a huge fan of Callihan but I liked him a lot and he was someone that I could expect to have a good match but I wouldn't say huge fan. I've probably seen him wrestle live more than just about anyone else in wrestling since I lived in Philly for 2 years and attended shows their regularly so he started to grow on me the more I saw him wrestle. 

If I had to guess I would say that I became a fan of his when he started getting pushed more in places like Evolve. Once he was in high profile matches and he delivered more often than not I became a fan. Throw in seeing him wrestling live on a regular basis and I know why he went from being just some indy wrestler to one of the guys that I felt would always deliver a good match.

I think it was an Evolve show that I went to once where he was wrestling Adam Cole before either were known at all. I missed half of the match and I laughed with my friend saying that it's not like we missed anything. I think 2 years later, if not less, me and that same friend were buying tickets to a show that was main evented by both of them.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I quite enjoyed Takeover. The whole show- top to bottom including the filler stuff. I'm easy to please :lol

Star making night for Breeze and Zayn being the best again. Also how great was Flair at ringside? If we can get this Flair on Raw, it would be awesome.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

How was Sheamus/BNB and Uso/Wyatt from Smackdown? The spoilers made them sound amazing and I didn't watch Smackdown yet.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Anyone else who has watched Takeover on the Network, does the video skip ahead a few seconds at random times? It happened for me during Zayn/Breeze and it pissed me off. Did the same thing for Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival.


It was skipping for me when I was watching Extreme Rules a few hours after the show but then I moved closer to my router. In the skipping situations, I think it's the connection rather than the actual network.



RAINNMAKAHH said:


> I quite enjoyed Takeover. The whole show- top to bottom including the filler stuff. I'm easy to please :lol
> 
> Star making night for Breeze and Zayn being the best again. Also how great was Flair at ringside? If we can get this Flair on Raw, it would be awesome.


Flair at ringside was great but please, for the love of God, WWE, don't pair him with The Miz if you're going to bring him in as a manager.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, color me shocked but Neville vs. Kidd left the biggest impression on me coming out of Takeover. That was a pretty damn good main event. Type out a full review tomorrow. Time to crash now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not gonna go all Funnyfaces and say he straight up carried Breeze, but damn he was easily the stand out performer of the match. Hes frighteningly good.
> 
> FF- j/k with you man, you know I like your posts


Haha, no harm taken. The only reason I post that stuff is to troll the same two people in this thread, and it works every time. Love reading the responses from those same two people as they provide endless comedy.



NAITCH said:


> Anyways, yea Zayn/Breeze was real fun,clearly outshined the rest of the card by far, *actually felt like the work in the beginning lead to something.*


Funny how pro graps works. I actually thought Neville/Kidd did a better job of this than Zayn/Breeze. The chain wrestling in the beginning of Neville/Kidd established the theme of turnabout that frequently showed up throughout the match. It seemed like everything Kidd dished out, Neville responded back later on in the match in similar fashion with the best example being the tree of woe spot. Pretty cool how the turnabout progressed from focusing on a strategy that benefited Kidd in the form of matwork and chain wrestling to a style that favored Neville in the form of aerial moves. The backflip that Neville did to avoid Kidd's top rope powerbomb might have been my favorite moment of NXT Takeover. The way Kidd sold that moment along with the way that it exemplified just how much of an advantage Neville had in a battle focused on high-flying against Kidd made it such a wonderful spot. 

As much as both guys hated to admit it during the buildup to the match, they had very many similarities as shown throughout the match. The difference ended up being that Neville was able to divert the match into a high-flying affair, which was to his advantage, while Kidd allowed their similarities to frustrate him and get in his head. I read one critique of the match about how the fact that these two didn't like how each other wrestled so similarly was reason for them not to wrestle this "mirror-image" style. I interpreted it however as two guys who just couldn't admit to the truth behind the matter that they really are as similar as they didn't want to believe, but each of them had an advantage in one aspect (Kidd with his submission/ground work and Neville with his high flying). Yeah, they could have tried to wrestle different styles, but it would have created a fairly clunky match and it also would have diverted from the even more important factor in the match which was both guys having to follow their game plan and stick with what brought them to the dance. William Regal specifically made the point about how Neville was smart for continuing to go with his instincts even in times of trouble, and it was nice to see that this point he made in the middle of the match ended up making its way to manifesting itself in the ending of the match.

I also loved the way that Neville sold through his facial expressions those moments when he had Kidd open for the taking, with the best moment being at the very end of the match when he realizes that Kidd is in the perfect situation for a Red Arrow. Fitting also how Neville was able to set Kidd up for the Red Arrow because Kidd attempted one risk too many and Neville took advantage of Kidd's "obsession" to hit a top rope maneuver at the wrong time. Both Neville and Kidd deserve credit for the way they presented their emotions in the match. I especially loved how Regal noted the "sheer menace in the eyes of Tyson Kidd". This wasn't just a collection of spots and moves like some might think. Kidd specifically had that edge that we all wanted to see from him, and with the way the match was structured, it felt so natural as if Kidd had a reason to be frustrated, yet you still disliked him for doing so.

Zayn/Breeze and Neville/Kidd would both get ****** from me on first watch. Charlotte/Natalya might get *****. Not too big of a fan of it.



TaylorFitz said:


> I'm not doing a review of the Clash of the Champions VIII but I did watch Brian Pillman vs. Norman the Lunatic. There aren't many 4 minute matches that are this good. I'll put it up there with some of my favorite short matches. Not quiet Giant vs. Meng but pretty high up there on my imaginary list of great short matches.


Really like that match as well. I think Giant/Meng might also top my imaginary list as well, but even if it didn't, I still would put it on top in fear of Meng biting off my nose.



KingLobos said:


> Been a long time. Started AE retrospective in August last year with 1997. And just now am in Feb 1999. Watching EVERYTHING. Shows, side shows, PPVs, Heat's, British PPVs. I think FunnyFaces did the same thing.


I am in utter shock that I ended up liking the Rock/Mankind series more than you across the board. Strange how the world works. They had one more match that nobody talks about that was really good: the Pink Slip match. Make sure to check out Foley's work with Al Snow and Santa Claus. Dude was on fire in 1999. And then in 2000, make sure to watch all the Rock/Benoit matches. I finished my 2000 project, but with work, school, and MCAT studying, I haven't been able to do a proper write-up for it. Too damn fun though.



bme said:


> Rock/Mankind (SSeries '98) is definitely their weakest match, actually the SSeries '98 show was bad. Never cared much for tournaments they look good on paper till you realize some wrestlers have no business being in it.


I thought their IYH: Rock Bottom match was even worse. That match was a total mess that was a victim of a very bad case of overbooking. Lacked the overall fun of their RAW/Halftime Heat matches or the intensity of their RR/IYH:SVDM bouts. But you're right about SvS 98. All but one match on that show was a DUD. Even Regal/X-Pac sucked, although I can't really blame them considering how it was booked. And despite all that, IYH: Rock Bottom might have been an even worse show.

Does anyone have access to these two matches:

Eddy Guerrero vs. Dean Malenko (Handheld 9/18/97)
Dean Malenko vs. Bobby Eaton on WCW Pro in April 1997




TL;DR: Tyson Kidd vs. Adrian Neville rules. Two guys with similar styles wrestling each other the way a match with that story should be wrestled. Tyson Kidd doesn't deserve this newfound disdain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Cody, you are a smart lad, can I get a match suggestion from el network?


b/c I watched some of the show recently; Faces of Fear vs Benoit & Mongo from Halloween Havoc '96 is a riot. Barbarian's corner spot w/Benoit is NUTS.

Also, watch X-Pac vs Shane McMahon from WrestleMania 15. Was stunned to discover how much I liked it after seeing it again today. Those McMahons and their fun rasslin bouts.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Well, color me shocked but Neville vs. Kidd left the biggest impression on me coming out of Takeover. That was a pretty damn good main event. Type out a full review tomorrow. Time to crash now.


Boourns. I'd actually rather take overrated love for the women's mediocrity over the main event. Which was w/o a doubt the worst thing about the show. Tyson Kidd tanked hard. But then again, of course he did. He's a dry "look how cool my arm drag & submissions are" kind of guy. He really should work more like a junior heavyweight and less like a Lance Storm/Dean Malenko clone. b/c his explosive side is a lot more fun. Had some real corkers in the past vs Kaval in FCW & Christian on ECW. Heck, he has a real good sprint vs Swagger this year, even. As for this match; nothing like a headlock match done wrong. That one was a struggle. I remember looking at my timer and ten minutes passed when I thought it was only four b/c all that was done was dull, lifeless rest holds. If it wasn't for Neville being good in a few points, it would have been an easy DUD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dean Malenko vs. Bobby Eaton on WCW Pro in April 1997


Think i have this one, ill check.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Jobber Sandow is the greatest thing on earth, btw.




sharkboy22 said:


> Turns out I wasn't the only one on the Callihan hating bandwagon back then either.
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other...an-announced-evolve-9-nyc-plus-more-news.html
> 
> I love re-visiting old threads. It's amazing how things change seemingly overnight.


Three years is hardly over night, besides, Callihan only really came into "prominence" somewhere _into_ 2011, or so, and stole people's hearts by the end of 2012. I think he's been great for years, but there's easily a side to him that you cannot deny most people hating. My biggest pet peeve of him in 2012 was how he would constantly give his opponent the middle finger during his desperation phase. He'd swear and emote almost identically each time. Yet, and here's the kicker, he'd do that shit so well that I can see people glossing over it or enjoying Callihan all the more for it. Going back over his matches, he was legitimately one of the best wrestlers going in 2012, and that's no small feat when that year had Bryan, Suzuki, Casas, Panther and Cena going balls-crazy through and through.

Definitely been a guy who's early work was hurt by not being on the A-level indies, and his better matches happening against poo opponents or on a CZW show that most wouldn't see. It is rather funny rereading that thread, because I'm sure half those who were Sami naysayers now hold the Callihan/Finlay matches in absolutely high regard. I know Woolcock does, and he labelled Callihan as similarly disdainful to Marufuji, for fuck's sake.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Please don't tell me SI really actually did that. He's been fiddling too many sheep and it's messed w/his brain.

For me, Callihan has been someone to watch since he burst out in 2008. Naturally he's only grown more and more since then. By the time 2011 hit, he was hot everywhere. Largely thanks to just popping in CZW. It grew elsewhere from there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Dean Malenko vs. Bobby Eaton on WCW Pro in April 1997


*Bobby Eaton vs Dean Malenko (WCW Pro 04.27.1997)*

x1xqsjn


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> I'm sure it's online somewhere but he also had a surefire MOTYC with a 2011 Sean Waltman in CHIKARA which is unbelievable, but it wasn't all Generico, Waltman definitely turned up with his worker boots on - If nobody can find a link, I may try and upload it at some point, maybe.


Thanks again for this rec, just watched it and it was tremendous, just glorious work throughout and you are right, Waltman more than held up his end of the bargain. Ill try and upload if anyone wants it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> It is rather funny rereading that thread, because I'm sure half those who were Sami naysayers now hold the Callihan/Finlay matches in absolutely high regard. I know Woolcock does, and he labelled Callihan as similarly disdainful to Marufuji, for fuck's sake.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> Please don't tell me SI really actually did that. He's been fiddling too many sheep and it's messed w/his brain.


I'm pretty sure the first Finlay/Callihan match was where Callihan gave me a glimpse of his true capabilities tbh. What I'd seen before had never wowed me or left much impact, but that first Finlay match was anything but a carryjob and it left me with a much greater impression of what he could do.

I still think he has some unfortunate tendancies that can disrupt his matches and produce sour moments, but for the most part he works the sprint style as well as anyone, and he's certainly a capable seller whilst the Finlay matches did the fighting spirit/struggle to earn your peer's respect story as well as any match which attempts that story.

Marufuji comparison though, eeeeeeeeek. That truly is an insult to Callihan.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico (PWG 1/29/11)

I know this match is probably well recognized, but first time watching it i fucking loved it, first time seeing Pre-WWE Cesaro too, an excellent match IMO.

Why cant we see Cesaro do the UFO in WWE.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Guys like Cesaro and Zayn are smart, they'll probably bust out some moves for the first time in WWE in big matches.

I swear if Cesaro pulls off the UFO for the first time in WWE on Lesnar :banderas :banderas :banderas


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Andre/Hogan from Main Event '88/2/5 is obviously not as good as the WM match, but it's still very nice. The whole angle was so crazy and executed very well, really liked it (evil twins FTW). That's how you work around someone's limitations. ***3/4



The Hitman said:


> Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico (PWG 1/29/11)
> 
> I know this match is probably well recognized, but first time watching it i fucking loved it, first time seeing Pre-WWE Cesaro too, an excellent match IMO.
> 
> Why cant we see Cesaro do the UFO in WWE.


Their BOLA match from the same year is even better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*NXT Takeover​*Adam Rose vs. Camacho - **

*NXT Tag Team Championship*
The Ascension (c) vs. Kalisto & El Local - * 3/4

*#1 Contender's Match*
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze - *** 3/4

*NXT Women's Championship*
Natalya vs. Charlotte - ***

*NXT Championship*
Adrian Neville (c) vs. Tyson Kidd - *** 3/4​
- The opener did nothing for Adam Rose other than make me think he's gay. Camacho on the other hand, well he's still a little green but man I think he's got a future in this business. When Haku is your father, the odds are in your favor. I like what he did for his control segment. Match ended too soon.

- The Ascension still fucking suck. Their offense consists of punches and kicks. Kalisto is incredible and he hasn't shown that yet. Ricardo needs to not wrestle please.

- Breeze vs. Zayn was really good, but I feel like I missed portions of it because of the network. I'm sure it was nothing meaningful but it annoys me to miss anything during a match. Either way everything about this was great except a chunk of the middle portion where I felt like they were just hitting moves for nearfalls, walking around, and repeating that. The "botch" so to speak didn't really come off as a botch for me, simply because I don't think anyone knew what the hell they were supposed to see. :lol Still looked cool and no one knew what it was. My favorite part of the whole thing was the finish. So subtle and so well done. A breeze.  I'll probably rewatch this one from my computer sometime.

- Charlotte vs. Natalya doesn't deserve all the credit it's getting, in my honest opinion. It had a super slow build and I didn't feel like it truly led to anything. Natalya slaps on a sharpshooter, it's reversed, then reversed again (?), and no one really knows who's in control. Almost everything that took place before that was okay, but it was just matwork and staredowns. It was good as a whole and I liked the finish a lot, but I thought two other women's matches from this company were better this year. How about Paige in them jeans though? :yum:

- The main event took me by a HUGE surprise. I thought it was gonna be a goofy battle of spots after the opening minutes, but it really developed into something good. Kidd is clearly going heel out of frustration and this was a perfect way to start the turn. The WWE veteran can't put away the young stud after outsmarting him on many occasions throughout the match until he gets caught trying the same thing one too many times. I was surprised by how much time this got but also felt it ended too suddenly. My only gripe was in fact the last minute. Kidd can clearly climb the ropes faster than that and it was ridiculous to watch. Besides that, a damn fine match and one I'll need to rewatch as well because of skipping. Pretty good show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rewatched the triple Main Event of Takeover, and yeah, I'm keeping the ratings as they are - Zayn/Breeze at ***3/4 and Nattie/Charlotte and Neville/Kidd at ***1/4 both. However, my opinion on both Zayn/Breeze and slightly on Neville/Kidd went up. Zayn/Breeze was such an awesome struggle at many points, truly felt like a competitive war, and the only reason why I don't give it the **** treatment is really the Orange Crush botch - but hell, that looked kinda good too since, again, they made it look like Breeze was countering the move and struggling against it, and not a blatant-ass botch. Still, a rather big botch that I couldn't help but to see how it kinda took away from the match. Neville/Kidd I appreciated more the stuff w/Kidd's "veteran" self this time around. Natalya/Charlotte was fine, decent work itself, very fun, great atmosphere, but still doesn't do that much for me and it's way too overrated by the masses. It was just confusing and weird at points (when Charlotte had the Figure 4 on, Natalya just lied there trying to slap her and it looked like Charlotte was the one who was taking it). Paige/Emma is still far better as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Their BOLA match from the same year is even better.


Yeah mate, that match ill watch later if i can, thx.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The RVD/Eddie or Angle/Edge series? Go.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

NXT TAKEOVER 5/29

Adam Rose vs Camacho *1/4

NXT Tag Team Championship
The Ascension (Konnor & Viktor) (c) vs Kalisto & El Local **

#1 Contender's Match
Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze ***1/4

NXT Women's Championship Tournament, Final
Charlotte vs Natalya ***3/4

NXT Championship
Adrian Neville (c) vs Tyson Kidd ***

Overall Grade: 7.0

This is another very good show from NXT, only two special shows from NXT and their are better than all wwe ppv of this year so far. Very hot crowds for the NXT shows. The opener is bad, nothing special in this match.

The Ascension vs Kalisto and El Local was entertained, nothing special but Kalisto was well, honestly the ascension sucks for me and El Local is the wwe's captain new japan.

Sami Zayn vs Tyler Breeze was good, not very good, but good. The botches not look bad, but the finish is frustrating for me.

Charlotte vs Natalya. Wow this match was very good. This is the best womens match that i see in years, much better than Paige vs emma. Very technical match and the moments in that applies his legacy submission moves was GREAT.

The NXT Title match was good, but i expected more.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The RVD/Eddie or Angle/Edge series? Go.


Well if you watch the RVD/Eddie Ladder match, here it is unedited with the fan run in:

x1w2wwi


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The RVD/Eddie or Angle/Edge series? Go.


RVD/Eddie for sure. Angle/Edge had the very entertaining Judgment Day match (and Backlash was solid too, yeah); but the Backlash match for RVD/Eddie alone trumps the whole of the Angle/Edge series, then add to that the Judgment Day and especially Ladder matches and it's the first choice in a curbstomp.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Thanks again for this rec, just watched it and it was tremendous, just glorious work throughout and you are right, Waltman more than held up his end of the bargain. Ill try and upload if anyone wants it.



I googled it last night and couldn't find it, so yea if you wouldn't mind 



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The RVD/Eddie or Angle/Edge series? Go.


Angle/Edge had some real good matches, JD in particular, but RVD/Eddie all the way, and this isn't just a biased Eddie fan talking. The Backlash match is GREAT, Judgement Day is GREAT, Insurexxtion-eh not so much, but the Raw Ladder match is REALLY GREAT. It's my favorite RVD match ever and also one of my all time favorite ladder matches. It's cool too if you know the back story leading to that Raw match. Eddie had only worked 1 previous ladder match with Xpac back in WCW and it was shit, and he had only been back in the WWE from his drug suspension/firing for about 3 months. He walked into the building at Raw and realized not only were they giving him a huge chance by letting him Main Event Raw, but that it was in a Ladder match, something he wasn't familiar with at all. To up the pressure even more, he never even saw Rob the entire day to go over what they wanted to do in the match. So they just went out there and called it on the fly, with Eddie just making shit up as he went along. That's what led to that crazy sunset flip power bomb and rolling Hilo over the ladder that broke several of RVD's ribs. It's just a classic, classic match and it's built as a physical wrestling match that just so happens to have a ladder involved, always a plus in my book.

So yea, check out the RVD/Eddie series, great stuff. Then if you still feel like watching some Edge, go watch Eddies series with Edge later on in 2002: SS, Unforgiven, and the SD No DQ match which is an absolute classic as well and a hell of a way to end a feud.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hmm, always thought Angle and Edge had great chemistry but I never paid Eddie/RVD much attention. Can I get a list of their series?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I googled it last night and couldn't find it, so yea if you wouldn't mind


*El Generico vs 123 Kid (Sean Waltman) (Chikara 04.17.2011)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3kZww3RcQcEJv7VH9I (Private)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Hmm, always thought Angle and Edge had great chemistry but I never paid Eddie/RVD much attention. Can I get a list of their series?




Lol read my post bud, they had matches at Backlash, Judgement Day, Insurrextion, and Raw (Ladder Match) for the IC Title in 2002. All but 1 (Insurexxtion) were great matches. Definitely worth checking out.



The Hitman said:


> *El Generico vs 123 Kid (Sean Waltman) (Chikara 04.17.2011)*
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3kZww3RcQcEJv7VH9I (Private)


Thank you


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> I'm pretty sure the first Finlay/Callihan match was where Callihan gave me a glimpse of his true capabilities tbh. What I'd seen before had never wowed me or left much impact, but that first Finlay match was anything but a carryjob and it left me with a much greater impression of what he could do.
> 
> I still think he has some unfortunate tendancies that can disrupt his matches and produce sour moments, but for the most part he works the sprint style as well as anyone, and he's certainly a capable seller whilst the Finlay matches did the fighting spirit/struggle to earn your peer's respect story as well as any match which attempts that story.
> 
> Marufuji comparison though, eeeeeeeeek. That truly is an insult to Callihan.


It's the Marufuji comparison that sticks out to all of us. Guess this just happens to prove nobody can be perfect, mate. That thread though. So much hate, yet i'm certain a few of those posters probably didn't bat an eyelash when ROH fed Finlay to Michael Elgin. 8*D _(this one was topical to bring up...or I can't help myself sometimes.)_

It's funny b/c while there has been at least one match I know I dislike w/Callihan _(vs Kyle O'Reilly last year; ugh)_ most of the time the things that some folks claim is off putting never strike me that way. Now, I guess that's not a surprise considering - as I said - the dude popped for me on the first moment I saw 'em, but I still can open my eyes to something bad even w/the cats I enjoy. There isn't really anything about him that irks me. He's kooky, has his ballistic strike periods, although he works them in well a good portion of the time. Facials are sometimes really nutty, but at least he's putting something out there. It isn't Wes Brisco try hard bad, either. He's already come out to be hectic, he can pull it off. Not sure what else someone has against him so that's all I got. Wait, one more thing, a few times he attempts to help cater to his opponents style when he really, really shouldn't. He's better than most and should really take a stand and lead his own way. I say this out of disliking the O'Reilly match & also the EVOLVE Championship Finals vs AR Fox. And then all the rest about him is fabulous & he excels a grand portion of the time. Series vs El Generico :mark: Their 2/3 falls is always my go-to match when talking about a match I adore w/little to no reaction from a poor crowd. It didn't even matter via myself being sucked into what they were producing. I tells ya, this is the stuff that gets me hyped.



The Hitman said:


> Claudio Castagnoli vs. El Generico (PWG 1/29/11)
> 
> I know this match is probably well recognized, but first time watching it i fucking loved it, first time seeing Pre-WWE Cesaro too, an excellent match IMO.
> 
> Why cant we see Cesaro do the UFO in WWE.


how about the REAL Neutralizer in that match? amirite? And yeah, the BOLA match later in the year is even better. Which is absurd.



ZEROVampire said:


> The Ascension vs Kalisto and El Local was entertained, nothing special but Kalisto was well, honestly the ascension sucks for me and *El Local is the wwe's captain new japan*.


lolwhat. nope.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That Generico/Waltman match was out of this world, that 30 mins flew by, keep them coming


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, more Generico & Chikara stuff always needs to make the rounds. :mark:

Someone should upload the four way Generico was in to qualify for the finals vs Waltman. Holy SHIT @ that match. Plus it can show more people who wonderful guys like Zack Sabre Jr. & Pinkie Sanchez are. _(Generico vs Sabre Jr. vs Sanchez vs Marshe Rockett, btw)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Does Cesaro have anything good from Chikara ? If that is a stupid question please excuse me


Edit: Always thought Chikara was comedic wrestling


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chikara has its silly, fun side behind it but that's generally a common misconception. Of course, some of that stuff isn't for everyone. But it isn't what the company is all about. There's a lot going on within the company. Which is one aspect as to why I love it so much.

Yeah, Claudio was always a boss in Chikara just like anywhere else. Go to youtube, find the channel CHIKARAOffice and they actually have a good portion of matches from him uploaded. Including two matches vs Brodie Lee aka Luke Harper. One of them is their rad Steel Cage match from 2008. (Y)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

NAITCH said:


> Does Cesaro have anything good from Chikara ? If that is a stupid question please excuse me
> 
> 
> Edit: Always thought Chikara was comedic wrestling


Chikara's been uploading some Claudio matches lately to hype up their return:



















I've not watched them yet, but those should be really good. Quack is a rather great talent for someone who was self-taught, and he can work the mat like the best of 'em. Kinda. Anyway, there's two matches from 2009 that I'd do anything to own:

The Masters of a Thousand Holds (Mike Quackenbush, Jorge Skayde Rivera & Johnny Saint) vs. Team Uppercut (Claudio Castagnoli, Bryan Danielson & Dave Taylor)
Mike Quakenbush/Kendo/Solar beat ***** Navarro/Mr. Ferrari/Claudio Castegnoli

Those should be slamdunk MotYC's


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hitman I would give you rep for that link once I start spreading some more around. Haven't seen the match yet but plan on later. Also, does anyone have a link to Claudio/Sara Del Rey from Chikara as well? I remember seeing it a few years ago but I can't seem to find it anywhere these days.

I think Callihan/Generico 2 out of 3 falls is Sami's best match to date. I'm so pissed my HDD crashed . I gotta find it back some day. 

What about his deathmatch stuff though? Where would you guys put it? COD against Danny Havoc definitely has to be up there right?


----------



## KozmicLuis (Mar 3, 2014)

ATF said:


> RVD/Eddie for sure. Angle/Edge had the very entertaining Judgment Day match (and Backlash was solid too, yeah); but the Backlash match for RVD/Eddie alone trumps the whole of the Angle/Edge series, then add to that the Judgment Day and especially Ladder matches and it's the first choice in a curbstomp.


Angle vs Edge in a steel cage match, on a Smackdown episode. It was awesome and Hulk Hogan was involved.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

That Claudio/Brodie Cage Match is great, might watch it again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

sharkboy22 said:


> Also, does anyone have a link to Claudio/Sara Del Rey from Chikara as well? I remember seeing it a few years ago but I can't seem to find it anywhere these days.


I was going to watch that today too, but wasn't sure about it. I could upload it tomorrow if you want.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Claudio vs Sara Del Rey match was posted by Rah ^

The Team Uppercut vs QuackSaw tag match is excellent. That's a Chikara favorite right there. Best part is when Jigsaw slaps Danielson and then Dragon proceeds to beat the piss out of him. Danielson's stints in Chikara were well worth the wait. The Donst match & Team Uppercut vs The Roughnecks. Too much goodness.

I recall the match vs Havoc being AWESOME. Sucks I don't own any of his CZW matches to relive a few. I really need to get those Callihan comps off of SMV.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saves me time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> That Generico/Waltman match was out of this world, that 30 mins flew by, keep them coming



That's cause the match is only 17 minutes or so, the rest is entrances and the post match celebration


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

You guys got me in the mood to watch some GENERICO :side:

I actually have a few weeks' worth of NXT to catch up on, so I'll just watch some ZAYN


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Even as a Taker fan, I don't think Shield/Hell No & Taker should be as high as it is.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

All this talk of indy wrestling is great. Glad people are giving credit to matches that great wrestlers had before they were signed. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I loved Generico/123 Kid, that was just a really fun match to watch, it amazing Waltman can still go like this when he's been wrestling for over 20 years. I mean they really tore it up. Bad ass match.

I guess I just have lower standards than everyone, cause it really liked Kidd/Neville from Take Over. Breeze/Zayn is still the match of the night for me, but I had a blast watching Kidd and Neville try and outsmart each other. They went with the "it's like he's wrestling himself!" Storyline which has been done and done a bunch of times but shit what story hasn't? They executed it well, and the transistions were good, I just wish Kidd had heeled it up a bit more. Otherwise no real complaints from me.

Ratings for Take Over-

Breeze/Zayn: ****
Charlotte/Natty: ***
Neville/Kidd: ***3/4


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Does PWG/CHIKARA have storylines/feuds like ROH has?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli (ROH 7/25/08) is on my next watch i think, is this better than their 2005 match?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Since you're already talking about non-WWE stuff, can you recommend me the best match by:

1. Prince Devitt
2. Kevin Steen
3. KENTA

Those three might be in the WWE very soon and I'd like to know how good they are.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Haven't watched too much Devitt or Steen, but you can't go wrong with KENTA vs. Danielson


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan Danielson vs KENTA, Glory By Honor V, Night 2, 9/16/06. Watched it today, still one of the best matches i have seen, fucking incredible IMHO.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Hitman said:


> Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli (ROH 7/25/08) is on my next watch i think, is this better than their 2005 match?


Claudio in 2005 wasn't very good, so I assume so.







DoubtGin said:


> Since you're already talking about non-WWE stuff, can you recommend me the best match by:
> 
> 1. Prince Devitt
> 2. Kevin Steen
> ...


Steen/Generico (Sami Zayn). I'd go with their ladder war from SteenWolf but their whole feud was cool. Avoid the Ladder War in RoH, though. It's just spots with no connection.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Steen vs Generico BOLA 2011
Steen vs Generico Steen wolf 2011 
Steen vs Calihan DDT4 2012 
Steen vs Nakamura ROH War of the worlds 2014 

I havent seen the BOLA match but others say its good, the match vs Calihan is just fun, and although I HATE this word with a passion, Calihan plays a great FIP in the match, Steen is just Steen.


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

Watched a bunch of Generico matches yesterday/today and I'll put them in order of best to worst.

w/Steen vs. Briscoes in a ladder match at Man Up
vs. Steen at Hate: Chapter 2
w/Steen vs. Briscoes at FYF: Philly
w/Steen vs. Briscoes in a cage match at Caged Rage
w/Steen vs. Young Bucks at Final Battle 2009
w/Cabana vs. Steen/Corino in a NHB match on HDNet

All but the last one I'd put at **** or more with the ladder match at *****. The last match is ***1/2-***3/4. That Hate: Chapter 2 match is seriously under appreciated. Two guys just slugging it out showing lots of...hate. On par with their much more talked about DBD VIII match. Had it been in front of a Toronto or Chicago crowd, everybody would talk about it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just also noticed this match too: Nigel McGuiness vs. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH 8/2/08). Looks great and is on my watch list now.


----------



## jessyj2009 (Oct 18, 2009)

That match is great and very character driven. One of the 411mania reviews gave it 5* and MOTY for 08


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are we still talking about CHIKARA? Because we should really talk about Chuck Taylor and how great he is so that Yeah1993 will explode.

Who was it here that was gonna watch the Bryan/Rollins ROH series? I urge that individual to pay extra attention to the 07/26/08 match. Might be my favorite Rollins match ever and top five match of a stacked 2008.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

DoubtGin said:


> Since you're already talking about non-WWE stuff, can you recommend me the best match by:
> 
> 1. Prince Devitt
> 2. Kevin Steen
> ...


Non-El Generico related Steen match that RULES is the Guerrilla Warfare Match vs Super Dragon from PWG Astonishing X-Mas. Steen is a really entertaining cat & his pool of matches that are worth seeing is really wide, tbf. It's only been some recent work in ROH that's drop off in quality for him, but his charisma always remains. If you can find vs Nigel McGuinness from ROH Northern Navigation, make sure you see it. iirc there are some matches vs Davey Richards on Dailymotion. The first one isn't the best one for a debut for him, but it has him winning the ROH World championship, so that can be cool to see. The rematch is much better. And yeah, don't sleep on any matches vs El Generico from any promotion. Except for the match Rah mentioned to skip - Ladder War from Final Battle 2012. It's not good at all.

Prince Devitt - best bet is pretty wide. He's had a nice series of singles & tags vs Kota Ibushi over the last few years. Searching for those will be easy. And as recently as of last year he had some tremendous matches vs Hiroshi Tanahashi. Also, both matches vs Alex Shelley last year. The finals of the Best of the Super Juniors tournament is stellar. All of this is from New Japan Pro Wrestling, btw.

KENTA. Best stick to any matches w/him involving vs Bryan Danielson. Only other tolerable matches (which sounds undersold, but I'm saying b/c this guy fucking sucks 90% of the time) are from his US tour in ROH vs the likes of Roderick Strong (Throwdown), Austin Aries (Chi-Town Struggle), & Low Ki (Final Battle 2005). There's also a singles match vs Nigel McGuinness from the ROH 7th Anniversary Show that is available on Youtube. Oh, and I'd be doing him and his opponent (whom is 100x >) an injustice if I didn't plug this:






Still, you're not going to get much from KENTA out there. Just a disclaimer.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

This is the best KENTA match ever, at least in NOAH. But then again, not because of him, despite being awesome back then. This is all SUWA, that motherfucker put on one of the greatest villainous acts ever:









Hayley Seydoux said:


> Still, you're not going to get much from KENTA out there. Just a disclaimer.


That's what makes it so great. #murdaland


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are we still talking about CHIKARA? Because we should really talk about Chuck Taylor and how great he is so that Yeah1993 will explode.
> 
> Who was it here that was gonna watch the Bryan/Rollins ROH series? I urge that individual to pay extra attention to the 07/26/08 match. Might be my favorite Rollins match ever and top five match of a stacked 2008.



That was me, and I'm having trouble finding that particular match. I watched the first 2 from 2008 they had one in January one in May, but I can't find that Horizons match ANYWHERE. it's a total bummer, cause I'm LOVING this series so far.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Stop giving me these great fucking matches to watch. Im trying to finally start my WCW project FFS. Arrggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SUWA. Well, that's kind of a done deal to at least be a tiny bit awesome via him, now isn't it?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Everyone watch KENTA/SUWA.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks guys, I'll watch those matches tomorrow.

And I'll probably watch some Kota Ibushi as well, because what I've read and seen seems to be pretty awesome.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Anyone seen Barrett/Sheamus from Smackdown? Any good?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

YAY for all the indie rasslin up in this bitch! 

I just ordered the best of Eddie G in Japan off High Spots! Can't wait for that to get here. 

Rock and Foley had amazing chemistry together. Their St Valentines Day massacre might be my MOTY for 1999. It's that or Bret v Pegasus at the show in KC. Those feels! I have a few buddies who were there that night. 



The Hitman said:


>


Pretty sure this is still the highest rated show on network TV. Something like 33 million? Too lazy to look it up. This was the night I fell in love with my first ever heel.....Ted DiBiase. Shame Ted didn't have a run with the winged eagle. As huge of a Savage mark as I am DiBiase should have won it from Savage at some point, Savage wins it back in early 1989 and still turns heel in 89 before WM5. 



Leon Knuckles said:


> Just finished Steen/Generico FINAL BATTLE 2010
> 
> HOLY SHIT FIVE STARS
> 
> /thread lol


That match is all sorts of ridiculous good. Steen in the E would just be :mark: 



The Hitman said:


> Bryan Danielson vs KENTA, Glory By Honor V, Night 2, 9/16/06. Watched it today, still one of the best matches i have seen, fucking incredible IMHO.


This match is on the Bryan World Champion set. So good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It is not a debate. Muhammad Hassan is a better babyface than Jerry Lawler.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Everything has to be a debate!!!! :curry2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Mexicools are hilarious. And Flair/Angle from 2005 is a top ten match from that year. Old man Flair is so damn good. I thought you guys were crazy when you labeled him the best wrestler on RAW during that period, but you guys may actually be right. It also helps that Smackdown destroyed RAW in the 2005 draft. Took Christian, Batista, HASSAN, Benoit, and Randy Orton. And more importantly, they got rid of the trash (Cena, Carlito, Angle, Big Show).

But seriously. Muhammad Hassan has to be one of the best gimmicks of all-time. How can you not support every word out of his mouth?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Don't know what the hell people are seeing in Paige/Emma. Tried to make my way through it twice, and couldn't either time. Bord me to tears and had no coherence or cohesiveness to it. Maybe it gets better toward the end, but it lost me before it could even get to that point, and I usually don't give up on matches.

AJ/Natalya from Main Event went down on re-watch. First half was very blah, and AJ's antics lack a sense of spontaneity, which lessens my enjoyment of her. It's like way too actressy without the sense of humor. Shame, 'cause when I first watched her work (Kaitlyn feud), I thought she was quite good. The first half wasn't anything for me to bother to seek out. The second half was still solid. I'd say ***.


I've got to check out the Breeze & Kidd matches. I've just realized that I don't think that I've ever seen Kidd work before, besides some random return match on RAW. He was good in that match, I thought.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair was the best wrestler during that period


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Flair was the best wrestler during that period


He didn't have much competition considering that the RAW roster at the time was shit, but the more I watch him, the more that it's pretty clear. The only other guy that you could sorta debate for is Edge. I think if you include all of 2006 into the equation, I might pick Edge, but that isn't really set in stone. More than likely, Flair trumps him. But that just goes to show how shitty the RAW roster was in 2005 whereas Smackdown was granted tons of talent. I think I might take a look at Smackdown's 2006 some time. You guys have talked about how great it was, and for once I'll take your word because if I don't, then Finlay will beat the shit out of me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> He didn't have much competition considering that the RAW roster at the time was shit, but the more I watch him, the more that it's pretty clear. The only other guy that you could sorta debate for is Edge. I think if you include all of 2006 into the equation, I might pick Edge, but that isn't really set in stone. More than likely, Flair trumps him. But that just goes to show how shitty the RAW roster was in 2005 whereas Smackdown was granted tons of talent. I think I might take a look at Smackdown's 2006 some time. You guys have talked about how great it was, and for once I'll take your word because if I don't, then Finlay will beat the shit out of me.



This isn't just me being biased, but I think Benoit was the best wrestler in the world in 2006, even with all that time he took off between JD and NM. Everyone touts his 2004, which was extremely great in it's own right, but my personal favorite year from the Wolverine was 2006. He just had so much goodness in the 6 months or so he wrestled:

1/13/06 vs Randy Orton ****1/2
1/27/14 vs Orton No DQ ****1/4
Vs JBL cage match SD ***3/4
KotR vs Finlay SD ****1/4
Regal match early in the year on SD, Booker on commentary ***3/4
Vs Finlay JD ****3/4
Vs Henry SD ****1/4 (I'm overrating this but atleast I admit it, I just adore it)
Vs Regal NM ****3/4
Vs Regal Velocity 2006 ****1/2 

There are 2-3 more great matches I've seen from him that year but I'm just too lazy to go look up the dates. Zeppers sent me the Benoit vs The Blue Bloods and Finlay set, and it's seriously one of the greatest things ever,. These dudes just never, ever, had a bad match. Benoit worked a lot more mat based style in 2006 than he did in 2004, which is largely because of his opponents but still. One of my favorite years from any wrestler ever. And if anyone is a big fan of that brutal, hard hitting, mat based style, I urge you to pick up that Benoit/Finlay/Blue bloods set, it's totally worth the price.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think I might take a look at Smackdown's 2006 some time. You guys have talked about how great it was, and for once I'll take your word because if I don't, then Finlay will beat the shit out of me.


It doesn't get much better than Smackdown from the beginning until May of 2006. The loss of star power after Wrestlemania hurt the show and it slowly got worse and the summer is kinda bad but it picks back up after September when Benoit returns. SD 2006 further proves your theory of Benoit's presence making everything better. He leaves in May and the show gets worse, he returns in October and it starts to become fun again.

The summer has some good stuff but I largely have bad memories of that period because Batista is arguably the worst he's ever been around that period, Khali is destroying cruiserweights along with other crap like The Miz being the most annoying he's ever been and Vito running around in a dress as well as the shitty Chavo/Rey storyline exploiting Eddie some more. JBL's commentary is awesome, though. Never get enough of him burying Miz around that time.

And Cena in the summer of 2005 (as well as a large part of 2006) is good. He was bad in the beginning of 2005 because he pandered way too much but he tones that down and his promos get better although his matches are mostly shit except the big matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm convinced Benoit would have had one of the best years for a wrestler of all time if he didn't take those months off in 2006. Finlay did have one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm convinced Benoit would have had the greatest year of all time if he didn't get injured in 2001. Austin did have one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Benoit in 2001 was inhuman. It's crazy how consistent his work was at that point up until the injury. The KOTR match went down on rewatch but everything else from that period has held up as a classic. It's as if he would deliver great matches weekly. And when I say great, I genuinely mean it. Vince must've bowed at his feet after every show since he was carrying it between Judgment Day until KOTR. Today I just watched the Smackdown match with Austin again since it just turned 13 years old and it holds up as the GOAT TV match.

Otherwise, I've been in a bit of a John Cena mood and revisited some of his bigger matches.

vs The Rock (Wrestlemania XXVIII) - ★★★★ - This is still very good. Could do with 5 minutes or so cut but I feel they gave everything they had and the atmosphere was the tops. Rock does look winded at various points in the match but that doesn't stop him as he still hits every move properly and even does a Crossbody in the end. It seems like people are more appreciative of it after their second match ended up being a disappointing finisher fest. I say about time because I liked it the night it happened and have continued to do so on every rewatch.

vs Randy Orton (Bragging Rights 2009) - ★★★★ - Yep, I still love this and it's pretty easy to sit through for a 60 minute match. I think they did too many falls in the early part but the last 30 minutes is worked pretty well considering the pyro spot is something that would be reserved for the climax rather than the middle portion. Orton has a great performance as the heel trying to keep the lead and Cena's comeback is well done too. Surprised at the lack of wrestling moves Orton used in this for a one hour match. All I can remember are suplex on the apron, Spike DDT, powerslam, RKO and clothesline. The No DQ stipulation really helped them because neither guy really has the style and moveset to remain interesting for one hour by simply wrestling.

vs Umaga (Royal Rumble 2007) - ★★★★½ - JUST finished this and it's still great. Great monster heel performance from UMAGA and babyface performance by Cena. Finish is also nowhere near as bad as some make it out to be. Match made me think, how many times has Cena bladed in matches? Struggle to think of many other than the JBL "I Quit" match, the NYR chamber, this one and the Brock match (where he might've been opened up the hard way, like the Orton ironman match).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm convinced that Goldberg/MENG Nitro 1998 is AWESOME. I'm also convinced that Hollywood Blondes vs Flair/Arn 2/3 Falls COTC is an absolutely superb match and one I'm kicking myself for not watching earlier. How good was Brian fuckin Pillman in 1992-1993? He delivers CLASSIC baby face performances as Flyin Brian, then has some of the best/most entertaining heel schtick as part of the Blondes with Steve. The Network as opened my eyes to a lot of things, but one of the biggest things I've noticed going back and watching all this old WCW stuff from 92-94 is how good Pillman was. His career is a giant "what if" for me. What if Pillman never got in that car accident and then passed away early? Are we talking about one of the potential 20 best wrestlers ever? Or was he the type that peaked early and then never got back to where he was?



Choke2Death said:


> Benoit in 2001 was inhuman. It's crazy how consistent his work was at that point up until the injury. The KOTR match went down on rewatch but everything else from that period has held up as a classic. It's as if he would deliver great matches weekly. And when I say great, I genuinely mean it. Vince must've bowed at his feet after every show since he was carrying it between Judgment Day until KOTR. Today I just watched the Smackdown match with Austin again since it just turned 13 years old and it holds up as the GOAT TV match.
> 
> Otherwise, I've been in a bit of a John Cena mood and revisited some of his bigger matches.
> 
> ...


I'm 99.9% certain Brock busted Cena open hard way in that ER match. I've watched that opening sequence literally dozens of times because it's so fucking awesome, and I never, ever have seen anything that would lead me to believe that that blood was the result of a blade. If you watch that third elbow in slow mo, he hits him PERFECTLY with just the tip, and right where he makes contact is where the blood comes from. It's Exactly what you would do if you were trying to open someone up. I have a ton of respect for Cena for agreeing to let Brock do that to him. What kinda psycho do you have to be to say "yeah, Brock Lesnar, go ahead and elbow me in the head as hard as you can 3 times in a row to start the match so you can bust me open".

Also, Cena blades the back of his head in that WM 23 match with Shawn. I really thought that was a great touch.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Or was he the type that peaked early and then never got back to where he was?


Yes, but that's largely due to health problems anyway. Watch the WWE documentary on him if you haven't seen it.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Mexicools are hilarious. And Flair/Angle from 2005 is a top ten match from that year. Old man Flair is so damn good. I thought you guys were crazy when you labeled him the best wrestler on RAW during that period, but you guys may actually be right. It also helps that Smackdown destroyed RAW in the 2005 draft. Took Christian, Batista, HASSAN, Benoit, and Randy Orton. And more importantly, they got rid of the trash (Cena, Carlito, Angle, Big Show).
> 
> But seriously. Muhammad Hassan has to be one of the best gimmicks of all-time. How can you not support every word out of his mouth?


Any guy can play a "terrorist" and get cheap heat.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yes, but that's largely due to health problems anyway. Watch the WWE documentary on him if you haven't seen it.


Yea that's kinda what I was thinking about, if he never got injured or passed early, where would he be? And no, I've never seen the Pillman doc, didn't even know there was one, I'll have to find it that sounds awesome.

Just watched Zayn/Cesaro ArRival for the 3rd time total. It has stayed consistent at ****3/4 and is my current MotY. Unless we get Bryan/Lesnar, I don't really see how it's getting topped. Then again, some other matchup could come out of nowhere and top it, we will just have to see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Any guy can play a "terrorist" and get cheap heat.


This is exhibit A of why Vince McMahon gives us dumbed down chickenshit gimmicks. How stupid can you be to completely misinterpret the character?

Pillman was probably the Zayn of yesteryear. Or rather it's the other way around. But then that would mean that Zayn has a hidden edge to him that none of would have ever imagined.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I started No Mercy 2005 and finished the first 4 matches, everything has sucked except the United States 4 way, but that was nothing special though.

Looking more forward to the second half of the card for obvious reasons.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Muhammad Hassan is trash. It's funnier when Vince gets someone believing in that it is anything noteworthy. In the 80's that was Russian. In the early 90's it was Iran via the Gulf War. In the early 2000's it was Arab-Americans getting ostracized b/c every dense American thought they would blow up their coffee shop. I'm still waiting for what is going to be in store for the next decade of the 2000's. Russia is passe & WWE should know this. China would work. Or Mexico, but that would have to be a sympathetic babyface b/c that's what some make them out to be. THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE A LIVING.

And please give me Sgt. Slaughter getting this heat over someone crap like Hassan. His halting way of cutting promos was ass. He's not Frank Costanza.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

At the rate WWE is going with talent, they may just have to run a "useless South African with a horrible accent" gimmick for cheap heat purposes. I'm not sure how Rose got over because, fuck me, I cannot stand a word of his without my ears bleeding.

Bring Angelico up from AAA, and we'll have a trio!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> This isn't just me being biased, but I think Benoit was the best wrestler in the world in 2006, even with all that time he took off between JD and NM. Everyone touts his 2004, which was extremely great in it's own right, but my personal favorite year from the Wolverine was 2006. He just had so much goodness in the 6 months or so he wrestled:
> 
> 1/13/06 vs Randy Orton ****1/2
> 1/27/14 vs Orton No DQ ****1/4
> ...


Ok, I'm in lesbians _(Scott Pilgrim ftw)_ w/No Mercy 2006. Super important for me, fucking awesome card, fucking awesome show. I may have a slightly bigger bias with No Way Out that year, but No Mercy is runner-up for sure. However, I have watched Benoit/Regal a million times, it was the match that introduced me to both men in the long term, never got tired of watching it, never will... and I have it at ****1/4 tops. I know it's all opinion, but Benoit/Regal NM almost ***** for you? Wow.

But that said, it's still a brilliant showdown. And yeah, Benoit's 2006 was otherworldly. The Orton series ruled (especially the Best of 7 match), didn't find too much evil in the Booker NWO match, the JBL series was very good, the match with Mark Henry... never watched but I'm sure it's fucking awesome because it's BENOIT VS. HENRY, Finlay JD is ****1/2 easily (KOTR I don't remember atm), didn't knew he had a Velocity match with Regal in '06 (didn't knew Velocity still existed in '06 ), and you forgot to mention the underrated stuff he had vs Benjamin on Raw iirc, vs Kennedy where he won the US title, and the series vs Chavo (SVS and Armageddon).

And yet still I could make an argument for Orton and Finlay all being better that year. Mysterio would be up there too off the top of my head.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Brock definitely busted Cena open the hard way. Didn't they agree to have that ;stiffer match' as it was Brock's first match back?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Ok, I'm in lesbians _(Scott Pilgrim ftw)_ w/No Mercy 2006. Super important for me, fucking awesome card, fucking awesome show. I may have a slightly bigger bias with No Way Out that year, but No Mercy is runner-up for sure. However, I have watched Benoit/Regal a million times, it was the match that introduced me to both men in the long term, never got tired of watching it, never will... and I have it at ****1/4 tops. I know it's all opinion, but Benoit/Regal NM almost ***** for you? Wow.
> 
> But that said, it's still a brilliant showdown. And yeah, Benoit's 2006 was otherworldly. The Orton series ruled (especially the Best of 7 match), didn't find too much evil in the Booker NWO match, the JBL series was very good, the match with Mark Henry... never watched but I'm sure it's fucking awesome because it's BENOIT VS. HENRY, Finlay JD is ****1/2 easily (KOTR I don't remember atm), didn't knew he had a Velocity match with Regal in '06 (didn't knew Velocity still existed in '06 ), and you forgot to mention the underrated stuff he had vs Benjamin on Raw iirc, vs Kennedy where he won the US title, and the series vs Chavo (SVS and Armageddon).
> 
> And yet still I could make an argument for Orton and Finlay all being better that year. Mysterio would be up there too off the top of my head.



Honestly I've often considered giving both the JD Finlay match and the NM Regal match the full 5 stars on numerous occasions. They are just perfect wrestling matches, I wouldn't change a single aspect of them. Hence the high rating. When Benoit and Regal had that match at the Pillman Memorial Show, a lot of people called it one of the greatest matches of all time. So, seeing as I like NM a bit more than that one, it's not really all that far fetched. It's just a style of wrestling that I have a huge bias towards and I know that. I'm sure not many people share that opinion but that's okay with me. Give me 15 minutes between Benoit and Regal or Benoit and Finlay and I'd rather watch that than literally any other matchup out there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Some Bryan matches i have been watching today:

*Bryan Danielson vs. Low-Ki (PWG 01/05/2008)
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black (ROH 01/25/2008)
Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli (ROH 07/25/2008)
Bryan Danielson vs. Tyler Black (New Horizons) (07/26/2008)*

The Bryan/Black New Horizons match is fucking great, really great IMHO. The January match is excellent too, much i have to say, i preferred the July match, the crowd were shouting "This is wrestling' and boy were they fucking right, ill have to watch it again this week. 

One question, has Bryan ever used 'Cattle Mutilation' in WWE?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think he used it in the NOC match with Miz when he won the US strap

Oh and FF STFU with this Muhammad Hassan shit, dude wasn't even that good and your sounding like a huge GEEK right now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MUHAMMAD HASSAN rules! Can watch his promos at any time and enjoy them.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm 99.9% certain Brock busted Cena open hard way in that ER match. I've watched that opening sequence literally dozens of times because it's so fucking awesome, and I never, ever have seen anything that would lead me to believe that that blood was the result of a blade. If you watch that third elbow in slow mo, he hits him PERFECTLY with just the tip, and right where he makes contact is where the blood comes from. It's Exactly what you would do if you were trying to open someone up. I have a ton of respect for Cena for agreeing to let Brock do that to him. What kinda psycho do you have to be to say "yeah, Brock Lesnar, go ahead and elbow me in the head as hard as you can 3 times in a row to start the match so you can bust me open".
> 
> Also, Cena blades the back of his head in that WM 23 match with Shawn. I really thought that was a great touch.


Oh, I know. What I meant was matches where blood was intended to be included. I brought it up because I've been used to watching PG era stuff where blood is unintentional if it ever occurs so the Umaga match caught me by surprise even though I've seen it before and remember the blood in it. Like in that ironman match with Orton, Cena gets opened up by a monitor and microphone shot to the head and even though he goes on for another minute, the medics show up after the next fall to "take care" of the wound.

I also forgot to mention the first blood match with Angle on Raw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think ill shift gears and watch Umaga vs. Triple H (Street Fight) for the first time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Oh and FF STFU with this Muhammad Hassan shit, dude wasn't even that good and your sounding like a huge GEEK right now.


Aren't you the other guy in this thread that completely misinterpreted the gimmick?

Putting Hassan next to those generic Russian Assassin #20s and even Sgt. Slaughter's Iraqi sympathizer gimmick does the character such a disservice. He wasn't just an evil foreigner. He was as American as everybody in the crowd as much as they hated to admit it. And his gimmick felt much more genuine and had a much greater scope than the Iraqi sympathizer. Nothing Hassan said was false, but because the audience didn't want to admit the cold hard truth about their own prejudices, they had no other choice but to boo. It wasn't about terrorism (except maybe the Undertaker segment if you want to be pedantic, and even then he addressed this the next week), it was about a man that was a bigger victim of terrorism and prejudice than anyone else, yet he was hated for it. He exposed a truth about America that needed to be said and it was such an original take on a theme that was once overused and unoriginal. Like JBL with his rich Republican character, Hassan was a reflection of a belief that was widespread back then (and still is), and it was so powerful that it drew the biggest reactions in a star-studded cast of wrestlers within weeks.

In addition, not many people can say that they made the greatest mic worker ever look like a blithering buffoon in their debut. And best of all, Hassan wasn't even Arab, but he played the character so damn convincingly.



Umaga vs. Triple H was one of Umaga's best performances, but Triple H's comeback felt so empty. Could have been even better.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I wouldn't bother if I was you, ff. This thread may be better than the rest, but the posters here are not immune to blindly disregarding the talent of performers they aren't a fan of or label them under an umbrella term, like Hassan in this case.

The ignorance about his gimmick in here catches me by surprise because when I go to youtube or other threads in this forum that discuss Hassan, plenty of western people understand the gimmick perfectly and that also goes for the people who were chanting for him when he did that "Arabs in skimask" promo. Also I find it funny how Daivari was passed off as an Arab (including when he spoke) even though he's Iranian and spoke Persian whenever trash talking on the mic.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Just thought I'd post this here, I did a little Payback preview with predictions here at http://papercloudmedia.blogspot.com/ for anyone wanting to check it out, would be awesome to hear some feedback!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well I kind of get the gimmick, I know he wasn't just a terrorist, but was he some sort of satire on western civilization? 

I wasnt watching WWE around that time but I have seen some promos/matches on him, maybe I'm not qualified enough to defend/disparage him, but it seems to me your overrating him a lot and looking too far into his character 

Edit: great preview Tanner, I liked how you kept in short and sweet and not like 500 words on each match, good stuff.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Tanner1495 said:


> Just thought I'd post this here, I did a little Payback preview with predictions here at http://papercloudmedia.blogspot.com/ for anyone wanting to check it out, would be awesome to hear some feedback!


I hope you're right but I don't think Wyatt's going over. Can't see Heyman turning on Cesaro at this point either.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> I wouldn't bother if I was you, ff. This thread may be better than the rest, but the posters here are not immune to blindly disregarding the talent of performers they aren't a fan of or label them under an umbrella term, like Hassan in this case.
> 
> The ignorance about his gimmick in here catches me by surprise because when I go to youtube or other threads in this forum that discuss Hassan, plenty of western people understand the gimmick perfectly and that also goes for the people who were chanting for him when he did that "Arabs in skimask" promo. Also I find it funny how Daivari was passed off as an Arab (including when he spoke) even though he's Iranian and spoke Persian whenever trash talking on the mic.


What bothered me the most isn't necessarily people misinterpreting the gimmick, but it was the fact that the WWE had the opportunity to make another big star. The theme of 2005 was the dawning of a new generation, and they did it very successfully with Cena and Batista. However, there was a huge opportunity to establish a heel that was just as big as those two. They did it with Edge in 2006 and Orton in late 2007, but then we had a gap where no new heel truly reached those heights. The closest was CM Punk in 2009, but he just had to talk back towards the one guy you should never do so and if it wasn't for him becoming an overnight celebrity in 2011, he would have been dropped into that long list of "what-ifs". Besides Hassan, the other guy that could have been built up to be that other major star as a heel was Christian. Why his feud with Cena didn't continue on after Vengeance is beyond me, since those two had amazing chemistry on the mic.

Apparently Finlay was slated to be world champ in 2006 and be pushed to main event status before Stephanie vetoed the proposal . He wouldn't exactly be the answer to that need for a top heel because he was pushing 50, but it exemplified the attitude behind heels in the second half of the Ruthless Aggression era and has continued on even to today. Just not enough effort put into taking risks and making the next big heel. The WWE has something special in Bray Wyatt, and if the rumor of him main eventing Summerslam with Bryan for the title is true, then the WWE might have the right idea. But as much as I've praised the WWE for the past couple of years, even I will admit this huge fault and I fully agree with the apprehension that everyone has.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Well I kind of get the gimmick, I know he wasn't just a terrorist, but was he some sort of satire on western civilization?
> 
> I wasnt watching WWE around that time but I have seen some promos/matches on him, maybe I'm not qualified enough to defend/disparage him, but it seems to me your overrating him a lot and looking too far into his character
> 
> Edit: great preview Tanner, I liked how you kept in short and sweet and not like 500 words on each match, good stuff.





Saint Dick said:


> I hope you're right but I don't think Wyatt's going over. Can't see Heyman turning on Cesaro at this point either.


Thanks for the kind words, also I was skeptical about the Cesaro thing, but it seems to me they really want to turn Sheamus and I can't see a better opportunity than this


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> What bothered me the most isn't necessarily people misinterpreting the gimmick, but it was the fact that the WWE had the opportunity to make another big star. The theme of 2005 was the dawning of a new generation, and they did it very successfully with Cena and Batista. However, there was a huge opportunity to establish a heel that was just as big as those two. They did it with Edge in 2006 and Orton in late 2007, but then we had a gap where no new heel truly reached those heights. The closest was CM Punk in 2009, but he just had to talk back towards the one guy you should never do so and if it wasn't for him becoming an overnight celebrity in 2011, he would have been dropped into that long list of "what-ifs". Besides Hassan, the other guy that could have been built up to be that other major star as a heel was Christian. Why his feud with Cena didn't continue on after Vengeance is beyond me, since those two had amazing chemistry on the mic.
> 
> Apparently Finlay was slated to be world champ in 2006 and be pushed to main event status before Stephanie vetoed the proposal . He wouldn't exactly be the answer to that need for a top heel because he was pushing 50, but it exemplified the attitude behind heels in the second half of the Ruthless Aggression era and has continued on even to today. Just not enough effort put into taking risks and making the next big heel. The WWE has something special in Bray Wyatt, and if the rumor of him main eventing Summerslam with Bryan for the title is true, then the WWE might have the right idea. But as much as I've praised the WWE for the past couple of years, even I will admit this huge fault and I fully agree with the apprehension that everyone has.



My beef with Hassan isn't with his character or how well he portrayed it, my beef is that I've seen 5-6 of his matches and they all SUCK horribly. His match at NYR against Lawler might be one of the 5 worst singles matches I've ever seen. Had Hassan been around for long enough to improve, maybe I would have enjoyed him more. But I felt then and I feel now he would have been better served as a manager of a stable. If they took it and made it less Muslim centric and more all minorities, including Middle Easterners, he could have run a decent stable and his promos and character would have still added a lot to the show. I'm just the type of guy that with my wrestling, character is undoubtedly important, but the person needs to be able to actually wrestle a good match as well. You can cut the single greatest promo of all time, but if you follow it up with a DUD match you aren't getting anywhere.

One thing I did notice that made me curious was how JR, in the matches that I saw, reacted to Hassan. JR treated him like an outright villain with his commentary, and I think that might have played a part in the fans perceiving him as a heel, no matter what he said. Maybe JR wasn't always like that, but like I said in the matches I've seen that were called by him, he would talk about how he didn't agree with what Hassan was saying about Americana and sorta took the beligerent patriot stance.

That's really all I got. My best friends name is Omar Alkairo, his parents are immigrants from Iraq but he was born right in Washington DC and lived here his entire life. I remember showing him some clips of Hassan back in 2004-2005 and he thought it was the greatest thing ever because he was talking about things that 95% of the Muslim-American families were saying amongst themselves at the time.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I may be completely misinterpreting the Hassan hate, but I always thought the dislike was towards the performer rather than the gimmick, in the sense that the gimmick aided his success rather than his talent? If that makes sense. Give Joe Bloke that gimmick and Joe Bloke would be successful, kinda' thing.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Quick match upload: 

*Sting & Lex Luger vs Meng & Barbarian (WCW Monday Nitro 05.20.1996)*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My beef with Hassan isn't with his character or how well he portrayed it, my beef is that I've seen 5-6 of his matches and they all SUCK horribly. His match at NYR against Lawler might be one of the 5 worst singles matches I've ever seen. Had Hassan been around for long enough to improve, maybe I would have enjoyed him more. But I felt then and I feel now he would have been better served as a manager of a stable.


Disregarding the jokes I make and the trolling I do in order to piss off Paramore fan, I will agree that Hassan was not a very good wrestler. He barely spent a year training and he wrestled the same exact style of a heel control segment that all but two guys on the roster used. The idea of him being a manager for a stable is pretty cool, but the WWE is not very good at telling that sort of a story.




Robbie said:


> I may be completely misinterpreting the Hassan hate, but I always thought the dislike was towards the performer rather than the gimmick, in the sense that the gimmick aided his success rather than his talent? If that makes sense. Give Joe Bloke that gimmick and Joe Bloke would be successful, kinda' thing.


There was a dislike towards the performer, but it wasn't because the gimmick was supposedly so easy to conduct. Hassan himself admitted that he said the wrong things backstage and made the wrong enemies. There was a story about Muhammad Hassan not realizing that Eddie Guerrero's father was the one that invented the camel clutch, so when Hassan saw Eddie use the camel clutch in matches when Eddie turned heel, Hassan was shocked. JBL had to bring in the "news" to him, and Hassan was ostracized in the locker room as a result. The man was very young when he came in to the business and a lot of folks didn't feel as if he paid his dues. The immaturity didn't exactly hurt him directly because Hassan was slated for a big world title reign after Summerslam 2005, but I'm sure that there was tons of contempt for him among the veterans in the roster.



But here's my contribution for the day. Awesome work from the MVP of 2005:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Didn't see much in Muhammad Hassan (minor flaw-the name was too in your face) even as a man of lebanese background, then again I'm not very into the culture myself. Was it Undertaker that did the burying of Hassan? GAB 2005?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

What are some underrated Last Man Standing matches to get ready for tonight?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What are some underrated Last Man Standing matches to get ready for tonight?


HHH/Orton Raw '09. Not really underrated as most people think it's good but it's one of the less talked about LMS matches.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Trips/Orton (RAW 09, from what I've heard)
Shane/Kane
Benoit/Edge
Taker/Khali


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What are some underrated Last Man Standing matches to get ready for tonight?


I recall this one being a good TV match that does not get talked about much:

x9dqi6_sd-27-01-05-last-man-standing-jbl-v_sport


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I can't see the vid Clique just embedded, so this might be redundant, but a good LMS match that doesn't get any hype is Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio from Smackdown early in 2013. Just under 15 minutes but it's absolutely fabulous.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Cool, thanks guys


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I can't see the vid Clique just embedded, so this might be redundant, but a good LMS match that doesn't get any hype is Big Show vs Alberto Del Rio from Smackdown early in 2013. Just under 15 minutes but it's absolutely fabulous.


It's JBL/Angle and I agree with your pick for Show/Del Rio. Their rematch on PPV pales in comparison.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> What are some underrated Last Man Standing matches to get ready for tonight?


John Cena vs. Umaga
The Undertaker vs. Batista
Edge vs. Chris Benoit
Triple H vs. Randy Orton
The Rock vs. Mankind
HHH vs Chris Jericho

Some people like HHH/Flair too.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

I just watched:
Chris benoit vs Lesnar Smackdown
Bryan Danielson/DanielBryan vs AJ Styles 



DanielBryan/BryanDanielson vs Shingo(Bryan s last match before he join WWE) http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/bgwrmoF5q5E , i couldnt find a youtube video or DM video.At this match Bryan shows a lot of his moveset.
What do you guys think about those matches?I personally watched them so many times and i always find them awesome


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Don't skip on the Jericho/Shawn and Edge/Cena either.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I might actually check out ADR/Show, I fucking hate their PPV matches though


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Big Show vs. Del Rio from SmackDown was very good, I gave it ***3/4, IIRC. Didn't care for the Rumble rematch, though, it wasn't bad, just... mediocre.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Loved Show/Del Rio LMS. ADR's best babyface performance on the main roster imo- or best performance in general, next to the Payback match against Ziggler.

One spot when he somehow rolled out of the ring just to get his feet on the ground at the 9 count made me :mark: :mark: hard.

If he had some charisma and connected with the crowd better, ADR could have been a great babyface.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just finished paybacks show from last year:

Miz/Barrett/Axel: ***1/4
Kane/Ambrose: DUD
Ziggler/ADR: ****1/4 MOTN
Punk/Jericho: ***1/2
Bryan/Orton/Rollins/Reigns: ***
Cena/Ryback 3SOH: **1/4 YAWN

Solid opener, HOW the hell they popped so loud for axel is beyond me. Kane/Ambrose was just AWFUL. The double turn was great and Ziggler/ADR was fantastic easily being MOTN. Punk/Jericho was pretty solid, just insanely pointless just like the other 2 matches that follow. Cena/Ryback had me falling asleep I didn't remember it because I left the arena before it even happened. 

I won't be watching live tonight, but doubt it's anything special. Cena/Wyatt in a LMS could be great though, no desire to see the rest of the card. Which is why I sold my tickets last week for tonight's show. They NEED TO BRING A ROYAL RUMBLE TO CHICAGO DAMMIT!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan/Ziggler (Bragging Rights 2010) is my next viewing i think, never seen it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Just finished paybacks show from last year:
> 
> Miz/Barrett/Axel: ***1/4
> Kane/Ambrose: DUD
> ...


You forgot about Kaitlyn/AJ from last year.

Also, wary that you'd rather watch Cena/Wyatt III than Shield/Evolution or Sheamus/Cesaro.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

ATF said:


> You forgot about Kaitlyn/AJ from last year.
> 
> Also, wary that you'd rather watch Cena/Wyatt III than Shield/Evolution or Sheamus/Cesaro.




Yea, honestly I just never bother rating women's matches, it wasn't bad though. I felt Shield/Evolution was a tad overrated at ER after rewatching it , plus all this is doing is setting up Reigns vs HHH for SS which I could give a rat's ass about personally. Sheamus/Cesaro will probably be good, depends on the time they get though. Barrett/RVD is probably gonna be awful. 

Cena usually delivers in LMS IMO. Umaga at RR 07, Edge at BL 09, Batista at ER 2010, Hell even his LMS with Ryback was pretty good last year.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Hell even his LMS with Ryback was pretty good last year.


I thought that was a pile of shit. :lol Just me then.

Im looking forward to Shield/Evolution and Sheamus/Cesaro., hope they deliver.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

The only match I am a little sour on is Big E/Rusev, I understand they want to start feeding Rusev higher up midcarders, but I feel like the match will either be decent or just complete shit, really hope it is at least watchable


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Tanner1495 said:


> The only match I am a little sour on is Big E/Rusev, I understand they want to start feeding Rusev higher up midcarders, but I feel like the match will either be decent or just complete shit, really hope it is at least watchable


At least it wont be a squash match and we can see what Rusev can do for 5+ minutes.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Leon Knuckles said:


> At least it wont be a squash match and we can see what Rusev can do for 5+ minutes.


Yea that is what I want to see


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The midgets with another entertaining match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Great opening match between Sheamus and Cesaro.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

**** for Sheamus-Cesaro.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Something's in the water tonight in Chicago again. Three for three so far in good matches this PPV.

EDIT: What the hell?!?!? Even Rusev/Big E was fun.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Yup, no really weak match so far. The squash was pretty average, but nothing harmful.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

More time for Big E vs. Rusev and that could have been really good. It was fun for the time it got though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> More time for Big E vs. Rusev and that could have been really good. It was fun for the time it got though.



Agree. Sheamus/Cesaro was good but definitely underwhelming, they are capable of MUCH better and they didn't even get a decent amount of time.

Big E/Rusev, some how, some way, was awesome. Believe me I am as shocked as you are. I bet Yeah1993 would dig it.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Liked BNB vs RVD quite a bit.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

BNB vs RVD was really good. Enjoyed it much more than I thought I would.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Agree. Sheamus/Cesaro was good but definitely underwhelming, they are capable of MUCH better and they didn't even get a decent amount of time.
> 
> Big E/Rusev, some how, some way, was awesome. Believe me I am as shocked as you are. I bet Yeah1993 would dig it.


Wouldn't say it was underwhelming at all. I thought it was awesome.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

edit


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao That match made as much sense as a fish on a bicycle. A psychologist's nightmare.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

umm yea

so fuck you Cena


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena/Wyatt sucked balls. No selling. No thanks.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Loved that.

Dat no selling after though :lmao


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Match was pretty awful.

Ridiculous no-sells, Usos and Rowan/Harper basically had another match in it, spot after spot only and an ending that reminded me of the duct tape one.


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

Better than the last Cena/Wyatt match, but they really need to move on from this feud. Wyatt's going to have to spend a lot of time getting any momentum back as it is.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

FoundLacking said:


> Better than the last Cena/Wyatt match, but they really need to move on from this feud. Wyatt's going to have to spend a lot of time getting any momentum back as it is.


Wyatt's over as fuck. He's literally got the crowd in the palm of his hand every time he speaks.(no pun intended)


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

BIG DAVE says the Cena V Wyatt is the GOAT LMS match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

The Cynical Miracle said:


> BIG DAVE says the Cena V Wyatt is the GOAT LMS match.


wow :|


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Wyatt/Cena sucked. :lmao at being called the GOAT LMS.

Well, time for Shield/Evolution. Expecting something awesome here.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

***** for this based purely on Batista's attire.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Can anyone explain how it is a standard tag match while No Holds Barred rules are applied?


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

Always weird when teams start tagging in a no DQ match. It'll be a better match for it, but it still feels strange.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Thanks Michael Cole for finally saying Roman Reigns is the leader of The Shield

anw,nothing memorable, some good matches, but overall it just seems like a good RAW episode..good ME so far though


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

"In real life", JBL? Really?


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Main event was disappointing.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

DoubtGin said:


> Main event was disappointing.


Yep. Far too long, dragged way too much and the elimination stipulation was unnecessary. Also some awful booking that made Evolution look like shit.

The product is in the toilet right now. I hate to say it but it's that post-WM slump they are in and I can only hope they find something good for the summer and move on from the current angles.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That main event made no sense and was a waste of 35 minutes. If I had to throw out ratings, ** 1/4 for the main event and ** fore Cena/Wyatt. Not good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus vs. Cesaro: ****3/4*
Rhodes Brothers vs. Rybaxel: *****
Rusev vs. Big E: *FUN*
Bad News Barrett vs. RVD: *****
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt: *LOLWTF*
Alicia Fox vs. Paige: ***
Shield vs. Evolution: *****1/4*

Biggest fan here of that main event. Had a surreal Chicago feel that made it so special. All three members of The Shield put on amazing performances.

EDIT: LMFAO at CM Punk leaving this company just to see the Blackhawks lose.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

My biggest problem with the booking of the main event was that it took away any drama at the end of the match


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Sheamus V Cesaro ****
Rhodes' V Rybaxel **1/2
Rusev V Big E **1/2
BNB V RVD **1/2
Cena V Wyatt ****1/2
Paige V Alicia N/A
Shield V Evolution ****1/4


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Well, main event disappointed me. They had everything they needed to make the match something special, and they squandered it. LMS match was garbage as well. In fact, the only two matches that weren't bad were Cesaro/Sheamus, and Barrett/RVD. Ratings would be something like:

Cesaro/Sheamus- ***1/2
Barrett/RVD- ***1/4
Rusev/Big E- **
Cena/Wyatt- **
Shield/Evolution- *1/2
Paige/Alicia- Didn't watch
Rhodes Bros/Rybaxel- Didn't watch

Poor show as a whole. Hopefully Shield/Evolution and Wyatt/Cena are done.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I really enjoyed the two main events, despite the finish of the last man standing match... well, the entire match. It was pretty much a six man tag team anything goes match with an LMS stipulation for Cena/Wyatt lol.

Torito/Hornswoggle: 3/4*
Cesaro/Sheamus: ***1/2
RybAxel/Rhodes Bros: **
Rusev/Big E: *1/2
Barrett/RVD: ***
Cena/Wyatt: ****
Paige/Fox: *3/4
Evolution/Shield: ****1/4


----------



## Victarion (Sep 8, 2007)

Rusev kicking BIG E in the FACE was the second best thing that happened all night. (Cesaro/Sheamus was pretty cool alright, rest was lmao to ok)


ME was pretty terrible rly.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

What a shit main event. And not just because of the ending. It was shit before that. Very fucks for the rest of the show also.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> My biggest problem with the booking of the main event was that it took away any drama at the end of the match


Well said. It was obvious that Shield was gonna surround HHH when Orton and Batista were gone.

If I have to give it a rating, ★★ at best. Only other match I watched was the opener which gets ★★★¾. Didn't watch anything else and I'm probably gonna take a break for a bit.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Meltzer said Cena/Wyatt might have been the best LMS match ever. No one in here seems to agree with that.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Does anyone have a link of Meltzer saying that? Dude has been on a star-throwing binge lately.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

WWE PAYBACK 2014: 7.5/10

It was good. It was entertaining. Didnt expect Cena/Wyatt to be so good. Didnt except Shield to sweep. You can tell that Triple H is taking more charge in terms of booking, and he is doing a mighty fine job at it. Cant wait for the future. The Game knows how to play.

Surprised you guys didnt like Cena/Wyatt. I thought it was awesome. All six guys gave an amazing performance.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Quick thoughts for the Payback PPV:

*El Torito vs Hornswoggle*- Didn't watch and certainly don't plan on it either. 
*Sheamus vs Cesaro*- Easily MOTN. That isn't saying much but still, the match ruled. 
*Rybaxel vs Rhodes Brothers*- Eh, not much to say about this match. It was just there.
*Rusev vs Big E*- See above.
*BNB vs RVD*- Liked this match quite a lot. Was expecting it to suck but I was quite surprised at how much I enjoyed it.
*John Cena vs Bray Wyatt*- Had a bit of fun with this but the ending did nothing for me. At least this feud is over (hopefully) as it has ran it's course.
*The Shield vs Evolution*- Well color me disappointed. I was expecting the match to pick up but it just never did for me.

Average PPV. Nothing awful that occurred but nothing particularly interesting that happened either.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Does anyone have a link of Meltzer saying that? Dude has been on a star-throwing binge lately.


http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-stories/96-wwe/37281-wwe-payback-live-coverage-from-chicago-

I caught the last 10 minutes or so of Evolution/Shield. That's all I saw from the show. Couldn't tell what to make of it. Glad Evolution put Shield over again and with a clean sweep too.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

PAYBACK RATINGS (from what I watched)

Cesaro/Sheamus ****1/2*
Barrett/RVD ****1/2*
Cena/Wyatt ***1/2*
Shield/Evolution ****3/4*

-Cena/Wyatt started off great. The little Usos/Rest of Wyatts interaction was fun. Everything was just going great. Bray catching Cena with Sister Abigail from the clothesline was sweet. But then everything went to shit once the no selling began. It was a my turn, your turn match. The finish....meh. Oh and bringing back he Usos and Harpen and Rowan just killed everything well. This match started off great, but it felt like it peaked too early. 

It's funny though. In these kind of matches Cena is usually criticized for just selling, selling, selling, some more selling and then making a comeback. Despite criticism,they never did anything about it. Why on earth would they chose tonight to abandon this formula? I don't know. Still, despite the spotty no selling contest this was, I enjoyed looking at some of the action. And that's about it really. 

I liked the main event (please, don't shoot!). Yeah, that's all I gotta say about that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

It won't surprised me that Meltzer would call this the GOAT LMS. It had the makings of a Meltzer 5 star match. 

Spots...check!

Well, that's all it takes for Meltzer to give a match 5 stars these days. Well, at least 4.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Meltzer's high as shit if he thinks Cena/Wyatt is the best LMS match. I mean, I rate it **** just for the fun the match was and the chaos. From a logic standpoint, and factoring in selling and psychology, it's probably a ** - **1/2 match. Just the fun of the chaos. 

I did like the main event though. The drama was taken away from it, but I liked it and the fact that Evolution got cocky and failed to put away The Shield like they said they would. It dragged in a few spots, but it was still really good, imo. I enjoyed the hell out of it, but I was surprised as hell that The Shield went over with a clean sweep. I expected Evolution to go over with HHH pinning Reigns last.

Where does The Shield go from here? No idea. Obviously the program with Evolution has to be done - 2-0 against them and a clean sweep.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lemme ask, did anyone just not wrap their head around the entire scenario of it being a NO HOLDS BARRED elimination match? Why are they tagging and wrestling a standard match? That whole segment was worthless in the grand scheme of things. It annoyed the holy hell out of me that Evolution never went for a single elimination. Why watch a 30+ minute match where ALL of your eliminations happen in the last 5? Ugh.

Cena vs. Wyatt had way too much shit going on. Sure there were a lot of brutal bumps and big spots, but it means nothing if you can't sell them and run to the next one like nothing happened. The involvement of the Usos & Rowan/Harper was a little over the top. Kinda tired of Cena fighting the odds all the damn time. That finish too. Fuck you. Next feud please.

From what I saw on the rest of the show, Paige/Fox was skippable and the segment with Bryan/Brie/Stephanie was actually pretty great until Brie opened her mouth. She's a terrible actress. What does this even accomplish? Guess we must tune into RAW to find out yet again. UGH

Wasn't paying attention to Barrett/RVD and missed Sheamus/Cesaro. Big E vs. Rusev was hella fun from what I saw though. Even if all of those end up being good, it won't save the PPV from having two total disappointments. Can you tell I'm not happy with what's going on right now? 

EDIT: Wait, why did Kane attack Kofi Kingston? :lol


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Batista's probably going away for a bit now. I wonder what they'll do with Orton. Can't see him in the title picture right now (although he never got his rematch) and I don't know what would be a good program for him. Maybe he could have a singles feud with one of The Shield guys but how do you really do that after Shield beat Evolution on the last two PPVs?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Lemme ask, did anyone just not wrap their head around the entire scenario of it being a NO HOLDS BARRED elimination match? Why are they tagging and wrestling a standard match?* That whole segment was worthless in the grand scheme of things. It annoyed the holy hell out of me that Evolution never went for a single elimination. Why watch a 30+ minute match where ALL of your eliminations happen in the last 5? Ugh.


I mentioned it on another forum. I was wondering why the fuck they were tagging in. It was no holds barred. Just go insane and do it tornado style.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I remember reading here once that No DQ tag matches in general tend to have tag-ins as a way to "respect" the nature of a tag match. To this day, I'm still not sure what that means. All I know is that this happens a lot, especially in the WWE. But I actually thought there was tons of drama in this match and I loved the beatdown by Evolution. That image of Reigns' back tattered and bruised. That dive by Rollins! That everything by Ambrose. It's probably gonna go down for me to something below four stars, but I loved every minute of it.

Wyatt/Cena though might be one of the funniest matches I've seen in a long time. For that alone, it's not even close to a DUD for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

There's literally nothing left for Orton to do atm other than being wasted in the midcard with "DA YUNG GUYZ". At the risk of sounding like a broken record, only noteworthy feud for him is with Brock at this point. He's been in the title picture for too long to return to it, he's already wrestled every top guy repeatedly and you can say the same for most midcard guys during his directionless face run in 2012. He might as well take a break since he's been a workhorse for the past year ever since returning to the main event and could use some rest when there's nothing for him to do at the show.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Lemme ask, did anyone just not wrap their head around the entire scenario of it being a NO HOLDS BARRED elimination match? Why are they tagging and wrestling a standard match? That whole segment was worthless in the grand scheme of things. It annoyed the holy hell out of me that Evolution never went for a single elimination. Why watch a 30+ minute match where ALL of your eliminations happen in the last 5? Ugh.


That's also what I didn't understand about it. It's an elimination match but all three eliminations happen about two minutes before the end, one after another. Might as well make it a one fall if that's what they're going for. Then Evolution look like idiots because they could've won or at least eliminated one or two members instead of walking around ringside and destroyed every Shield member more than necessary. I had a bad feeling about the whole thing when they took out Reigns and just left him there. I expected him to make a superman comeback and win it for the Shield but what happened was just as bad with Evolution getting squashed with Shield 1/10th of what they did.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The drama for me went right down the shitter after they put Reigns through the table. That shot with the TV that Rollins took was SICK as fuck but the whole math just slowed wayyyyyy down afterwards. I kept watching Evolution pick everyone apart thinking, "well, Rollins and Ambrose are gonna jump out of nowhere and this whole beatdown will be pointless." I kept looking at my phone to check the time to see how many eliminations they would cram in the last few minutes. It was in fact all of them. Their Extreme Rules is SOOOOOO much better imo. The original was not trumped tonight.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Cesaro/Sheamus - ****
Rusev/Big E - *** (I enjoyed this way more than I should have)
RybAxel/Brotherhood - **1/4
BNB/RVD - ***
Wyatt/Cena - **** (WOO)
Paige/Fox - **1/2
Shield/Evolution - ***3/4

Overall, thought it was a fun show. Really enjoyed the opener and the two main events. When you think about it, for a show without a world title match, it was really good. Wyatt/Cena and Shield/Evolution would have been rated higher if not for the finishes, no clue where any of them go from here because Batista has to be gone soon for GotG, right?

WWE continues to kill it in the quality department though, I have more WWE matches ***+ than I ever have had, it is ridiculous.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Things like this are why I can't really get mad at Cena anymore for his antics. Dude is too funny with some of the shit he does.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Things like this are why I can't really get mad at Cena anymore for his antics. Dude is too funny with some of the shit he does.


Straight up looks like some Flinstone shit. Cena truly has earned his fruit pebbles nickname. Yabba dabba doo!


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena/Wyatt was fun as fuck. You guys are way too critical trying to analyze psychology and selling in a match that's designed to be a continuous spotfest. Perhaps I'm easy to please but I really enjoyed it.


----------



## Malicious1 (May 6, 2014)

Ok 2 things.

Cena/Wyatt was a great match and the reason you guys aren't rating it as high is because of the fact that Cena won and because Cena was in the match. If it wasn't for that you guys would be all over it. I used to like Cena a lot but I can see now that he is no good for building future stars.

The main event was extremely disappointing. Ok so they start out brawling all over the place which was cool I liked it but then what the fuck was the point of them getting on the aprons and making tags? The ref trynna stop the others illegal men from getting in the ring....WTF its a no holds barred match. Should have really been a tornado tag match. Second..the crowd was dead. Only popped for the spots, to boo Batista and the Romans and HHH showdown. Being the smarky crowd that Chicago is I expected them to boo Reigns to be honest but he is over as fuck gotta admit. Third....when they all surrounded Reigns in the ring I thought he would eat a pin and get eliminated first which would have definitely made it interesting but what happened was a minor strip fest and them taking turns to beat Reigns down and not pin him? The Rollins spot was cool but I felt like this could have been epic but just fell short. Stupidly booked match. 

*** for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We criticize tons of matches that Cena loses. Like Cena/Wyatt cage match. Or Cena/Edge LMS. Or that trash against Orton in 2009 at both Summerslam and HIAC. List goes on.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I enjoyed about the first half, but was bored by the second. However, I may have been bored because I was sleepy from eating too much food.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

It was nonstop action just like Shield's debut TLC match. Obviously not on that level in terms of overall quality but crazy fun nonetheless.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Cesaro/Sheamus - ***3/4
Rusev/Big E - *** 
RybAxel/Brotherhood - ***
BNB/RVD - **3/4
Wyatt/Cena - **** 
Paige/Fox - **
Shield/Evolution - ***1/4


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Also, hopefully people finally shut up about Hunter burying people. Dude has won like 1 match in the last 3 years (to someone he lost to twice).


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

The Lady Killer said:


> Also, hopefully people finally shut up about Hunter burying people. Dude has won like 1 match in the last 3 years (to someone he lost to twice).


That's going to fall on Cena's plate now especially if Bray Wyatt falls to the waste side.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Cena does win a ridiculous amount of his matches. Bray needs to come out on top but I'm not sure this feud progresses.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Lady Killer said:


> Also, hopefully people finally shut up about Hunter burying people. Dude has won like 1 match in the last 3 years (to someone he lost to twice).


He's certainly making up for his reign of hell a decade ago.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Holy shit Cena/Wyatt and the main event were fantastic. (Y) Seeing The Shield come out that strong and Ambrose not getting eliminated was awesome. Crazy fun brawl all around.

Not the best show top to bottom but not bad by any means.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Shield/Evolution was also great. For people disliking Wyatt/Cena for lack of selling, this match definitely delivered in that aspect, and was very entertaining to boot. Shield got out over very nicely.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I'm starting to think all three Shield guys are pretty much being knighted here. Couldn't be happier with that. This is like their ticket to full time success and they're all young enough to have huge careers.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Payback was a two match show. Those two matches were hit and miss to me. Yes, I wanted Bray to win but I didn't like how the Usos/Rowan and Harper did bigger spots then Cena and Wyatt.

I don't really care about selling in this type of match except their felt like no struggle on the counts. I didn't like the finish either. Going through the case looked weak. If Bray was trying to get out but couldn't I would have liked it better but nope lol

I loved the Shield/Evolution match except for the tagging segment and no elimnations til the end. Speaking on that, I hated the booking. I thought the Shield would lose to set up Trips/Reigns but at the very least Evolution would get a few elimnations..

Instead, Evolution destroys the Shield for 25 mins and a dive, set of finishers get the Shield the win.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I hope so. The fact that none of them got eliminated speaks volumes and I hope all three can shine once they eventually break up.

Edit I also agree that Wyatt should've been trying to escape the box but being blocked in prevented him to do so. Would've made him look stronger in defeat.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Beginning was fun, will watch LMS and Tag tomorrow


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Sheamus/Cesaro _great_
Rybaxel/Rhodes _decent_
Rusev/Big E _good_
RVD/Barrett _ok_
Cena/Wyatt _really good_
Paige/Foxx _decent_
Shield/Evolution _ok_

- Was hoping Sheamus & Cesaro would top their match from main event last month and they did just that. Best opening match to a ppv in god knows how long.
- I would've been happy if they simply had the USOs and Harper & Rowan in the beginning of the match brawl to the back. Why have these crazy things done by people not apart of the match.
- The story of Shield/Evolution was weird as hell. They brawl through the arena in the beginning only to get to the ring and have a standard match. Evolution takes out Reigns but don't eliminate either Ambrose or Rollins. They beat on Reigns with weapons only to drag him to the entrance way. Only things i liked from the match was Evolution's beatdown on Reigns, Seth's dive and the in-ring action towards the end of the match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Sheamus/Cesaro (***1/2)
Rybaxel/Rhodes (*3/4)
Rusev/Big E (**1/2)
RVD/Barrett (**)
Cena/Wyatt (***1/4)
Paige/Foxx (*1/2)
Shield/Evolution (**1/4)

If you're gonna pull out al; stops for the main event, then carry with it all the way thru. Don't make a drastic change (mid-way) that completely disrupts the flow of the match. Something tells me they were calling this match on the fly, it all seemed last second and unplanned.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Lemme ask, did anyone just not wrap their head around the entire scenario of it being a NO HOLDS BARRED elimination match? Why are they tagging and wrestling a standard match? That whole segment was worthless in the grand scheme of things. It annoyed the holy hell out of me that Evolution never went for a single elimination. Why watch a 30+ minute match where ALL of your eliminations happen in the last 5? Ugh.


Point 1, do you think the same thing kills all tag matches that don't have DQs? (Final Conflict tag)

Point 2, why bother watching any long match when the finish is in the... final minute?



The Lady Killer said:


> Cena/Wyatt was fun as fuck. You guys are way too critical trying to analyze psychology and selling in a match that's designed to be a continuous spotfest. Perhaps I'm easy to please but I really enjoyed it.


also this.

Enjoyed the whole show.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Cesaro/Sheamus ****

That was a very throw-happy match, and I loved it, particularly the ending. I dunno anything about the backstory, but it seems the rivalry is about to go on, which means another high-profile match. Now I need to chechk their ME match from the last year, is it better than this?



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Lemme ask, did anyone just not wrap their head around the entire scenario of it being a NO HOLDS BARRED elimination match? Why are they tagging and wrestling a standard match? That whole segment was worthless in the grand scheme of things.


Now, I haven't seen the match yet, but generally speaking - when wrestlers do tag ins and tag outs in No DQ tag matches, it goes way back, it's called "respecting the game", because it's two teams fighting after all, the marquee says "tag" at the end of the day. Tag rules are to be respected, at least in the first half.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Also have yet to watch the PPV, but there is a definite advantage to leaving things go conventionally. Your numbers aren't stretched out, and you, at all times, have two members holding your back. Seems to be the WWE rule, until it's chucked out the window 3/4 of the way in when the wrestlers get cockier. It's not something I want out of wrestling, especially if there's a heated rivalry, but whatya gonna do, eh?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The ''No DQ yet fools still tag in and out'' thing is one of those things that should really bother me, but doesn't if the work is good enough. And if the work isn't good I don't blame it directly on a lack of chaos. So, I guess it doesn't really bother me, even though- by all means- it should. It is kind of sucky that the WWE seem to only have that kind of match when the ''tornado'' label is slapped on it.


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

Cesaro/Sheamus - ***1/2
Rusev/Big E - ** (way too short but it was really enjoyable)
RybAxel/Brotherhood - **1/4
BNB/RVD - ***
Wyatt/Cena - ****1/4
Shield/Evolution - ***1/2 (it wasnt flowing very well but still had great moments)


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Who would be your WOTY so far for this year? The obvious answers will be Bryan or Cesaro and who could argue with them, I think I'd give it to Wyatt though.

He's in 5 out of my top 10 matches of the year. At the beginning of the year I really didn't like him so it's some turnaround.


----------



## El Dylan (Jun 28, 2011)

Ryan193 said:


> Who would be your WOTY so far for this year? The obvious answers will be Bryan or Cesaro and who could argue with them, I think I'd give it to Wyatt though.
> 
> He's in 5 out of my top 10 matches of the year. At the beginning of the year I really didn't like him so it's some turnaround.


My top workers :

Bryan
Cesaro
Wyatt
Rollins
Ambrose
Orton


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent match, worthy of its praise. Loved it.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ryan193 said:


> Who would be your WOTY so far for this year? The obvious answers will be Bryan or Cesaro and who could argue with them, I think I'd give it to Wyatt though.
> 
> He's in 5 out of my top 10 matches of the year. At the beginning of the year I really didn't like him so it's some turnaround.


I have Cesaro far and away as far as WWE goes, he's also my #1 worldwide, but that is a lot closer race


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Femto said:


> Point 1, do you think the same thing kills all tag matches that don't have DQs? (Final Conflict tag)
> 
> Point 2, why bother watching any long match when the finish is in the... final minute?
> 
> ...


I'm not sure which point you're asking me about in the first question, so idk. I've never seen this Final Conflict tag but I'm assuming it went long and was a No DQ style match. The length of the match didn't bother me, it's the context of what happened DURING the match that did. I have no problem if all the eliminations happen at the end as long as they all make sense. In this case I don't think they did. I think they dragged along for 25 minutes and then said ok guys, Shield needs to eliminate us all real easy now and make us look like chumps. I loved their match from Extreme Rules, btw.



Yeah1993 said:


> The ''No DQ yet fools still tag in and out'' thing is one of those things that should really bother me, but doesn't if the work is good enough. And if the work isn't good I don't blame it directly on a lack of chaos. So, I guess it doesn't really bother me, even though- by all means- it should. It is kind of sucky that the WWE seem to only have that kind of match when the ''tornado'' label is slapped on it.


Either way you look at it, the work during that part of the match wasn't that great. The FIP sequences were done much better in their Extreme Rules match.

look guys, if there's a No DQ tag match that starts off traditionally and THEN breaks down, that's different. This one started as a brawl, then they decided to go traditional, and went right back to a brawl soon after. It seems pointless to me. These things that I'm criticizing about Shield/Evolution and Cena/Wyatt aren't just things I go out and look for to make the match suck, they just naturally come to me. If you turn your brain off completely and dismiss logic completely, then the matches were awesome. However for me I saw far too many flaws in both for me to enjoy them.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

(Thnks to Pez)


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I guess last night's Shield/Evolution match is gonna be one of those polarizing matches. Half the people are saying it was a great match, and the other half saying it wasn't good are right  .


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I'm not sure which point you're asking me about in the first question, so idk. I've never seen this Final Conflict tag but I'm assuming it went long and was a No DQ style match. The length of the match didn't bother me, it's the context of what happened DURING the match that did. I have no problem if all the eliminations happen at the end as long as they all make sense. In this case I don't think they did. I think they dragged along for 25 minutes and then said ok guys, Shield needs to eliminate us all real easy now and make us look like chumps. I loved their match from Extreme Rules, btw.


Steamboat and Youngblood vs. Slaughter and Kernodle in a cage. Pretty sweet match but they tag in and out when they really don't need to.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

My match ratings for Payback: 

Cesaro/Sheamus ****
Rhodes/Rybaxel ***1/4
Langston/Rusev **1/4
RVD/Barrett ***1/4
Wyatt/Cena ****1/2
Fox/Paige **
Evolution/Shield ****1/4

Didn't see the pre show match, but I see a lot of people once again say that this one was entertaining. I mean, with the WeeLC match I could see it, but really? They had another entertaining bout? Man I need to go see this match.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just finished watching payback on first watch. Solid show: 

Sheamus/Cesaro: **** 
Russev/Big E: ***1/4
BNB/RVD: **
Wyatt/Cena: ****1/4
Shield/Evolution: ***1/2

I skipped Brother hood vs Rybaxel. No interest whatsoever with that one lol. Cena/Wyatt was fucking great and MOTN, loved the spots. And you couldn't ask for a better opener with Sheamus vs Cesaro I'm glad they gave them time. Still in UTTER SHOCK the shield swept Evolution, but I'm fucking happy about it. 7/10 show.


----------



## TheGodsofChristmas (Sep 16, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> We criticize tons of matches that Cena loses. Like Cena/Wyatt cage match. *Or Cena/Edge LMS*. Or that trash against Orton in 2009 at both Summerslam and HIAC. List goes on.


Really? I thought that was a great match.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Cesaro/Sheamus ***1/2
Rhodes/Rybaxel ***1/4
Langston/Rusev **3/4
RVD/Barrett ***1/2
Wyatt/Cena ***3/4
Evolution/Shield ****

Pretty great show


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The promo video prior to the Shield/Evolution was much better than the actual match itself.


----------



## TJQ (Sep 1, 2013)

EmbassyForever said:


> Cesaro/Sheamus ***1/2
> Rhodes/Rybaxel ***1/4
> Langston/Rusev **3/4
> RVD/Barrett ***1/2
> ...


I'd call Wyatt/Cena a ****, but I agree with the rest. It was definitely a solid show, I just wish they did something more with Cody/Goldust. Cody walking off was a little meh.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Downloading Payback now. Based on what I've read I can't see myself being a fan of the show. Cena/Wyatt and Evolution/Shield don't sound like the matches I wanted to see out of those guys.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Cena/Wyatt is one of those matches which I like, but I really fucking shouldn't and I can't for the life of me explain why I do. :hmm:


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Downloading Payback now. Based on what I've read I can't see myself being a fan of the show. Cena/Wyatt and Evolution/Shield don't sound like the matches I wanted to see out of those guys.


Given our similar interests I'm confident you'll enjoy those matches and Cesaro/Sheamus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For only the second time, im now watching Bryan/HHH.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Given our similar interests I'm confident you'll enjoy those matches and Cesaro/Sheamus.


That gives me some hope. Funnyfaces also thought Shield/Evo was great so we'll see.



The Hitman said:


> For only the second time, im now watching Bryan/HHH.


:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> :mark:


Just as good, if not better second time around. I actually fucking love this match. That 'Tiger suplex' by HHH too.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

I love that match too. A lot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Just as good, if not better second time around. I actually fucking love this match. That 'Tiger suplex' by HHH too.



Most of us criticize Trips in here, but I couldn't find a single damn thing to bitch about in that match with. Bryan made Hunter look great with his selling, and Hunters awesome limb work and control segment made the match itself great and helped put over Bryan even more when he ended up winning. If Hunter had done a bunch of shitty limb work and never allowed the fans to think he was gonna win, it wouldn't have done Bryan any favors. Instead, he came out in the best shape physically that I've seen him since 2001 and had his best match since 2008 NM vs Jeff Hardy. Hunter/Bryan was my MotN for WM 30 and just cracks my top 5 for MotY, so far:

2014 MotY Standings:

1. Cesaro vs Zayn Arrival ****3/4
2. Shield vs Wyatt's EC ****3/4
3. Cesaro vs Cena Raw ****1/4
4. Shield vs Evolution ER ****1/4
5. Hunter vs Bryan WM 30 ****1/4
6. Bryan vs Bray RR ****1/4
7. Elimination Chamber ****
8. Bray vs Cena WM 30 ****
9. Bryan vs Orton vs Batista WM 30 ****
10. Zayn vs Breeze Takeover ****

Still need to watch Shield/Evolution and Bray/Cena from Payback, will post my thoughts as soon as I get home from work.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Most seem to think Hunter wasn't a big enough prick during the match against Bryan. Not sure why. 

I'll have to check out his Zayn/Breeze match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Most seem to think Hunter wasn't a big enough prick during the match against Bryan. Not sure why.
> 
> I'll have to check out his Zayn/Breeze match.


That's a minor complaint I've seen from a few people but not too many. Even the Segunda Caida dudes said HHH was good in that match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Most seem to think Hunter wasn't a big enough prick during the match against Bryan. Not sure why.
> 
> I'll have to check out his Zayn/Breeze match.





Saint Dick said:


> That's a minor complain I've seen from a few people but not too many. Even the Segunda Caida dudes said HHH was good in that match.



Would I have liked to see Hunter put the bad mouth on Bryan, and go all out with the cocky snarl and start slapping and kicking Bryan around, disrespecting him? Sure. Does it detract from the match in any way that he didn't? No, not at all. Plus, Steph was on the outside delivering the bitchy comments like "YOURE NEVER GONNA WIN BRYAN, YOURE A B+ AT BEST!" And giving him the evil stare downs whenever he was looking in her direction. She made up for any lack of dickish ness from Hunter by being the worlds biggest bitch on the outside. 


Between that opening match and interfering in the main event, Hunter REALLY went above and beyond to put Bryan over that night and put the ball firmly in his hands. That, coupled with all the reports that Hunter held a meeting and told all the guys on the roster that he wants to place more emphasis on the mid card has me thinking old Triple H might be the perfect guy to take over the reigns from Vince. Apparently Hunter has been clashing with Vince because he thinks more people aren't subscribing to the Network because the product stinks, and that they need to put more effort in making the show flow well from beginning to end with compelling stories for all the levels of the card. Now that's just dirtsheet BS, but there could be a grain of truth because you can see a massive difference in how NXT is run (a show were Hunter is 100% responsible for everything) and Raw/Smackdown (where Hunter has a lot less say).

Edit:

:lmao look what I just found on Youtube. Wale doing a wrestling freestyle over the Razor Ramon beat:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm a bigger fan of the Wyatt/Cena WM & Payback matches than anyone...

1 The Shield V The Wyatt's Elimination Chamber ****3/4
2 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Wrestlemania ****3/4
3 John Cena V Bray Wyatt Payback ****1/2
4 John Cena V Cesaro Raw ****1/2
5 Daniel Bryan V Triple H Wrestlemania ****1/2
6 Sami Zayn V Cesaro Takeover ****1/2
7 Daniel Bryan V Batista V Randy Orton Wrestlemania ****1/4
8 The Shield V Evolution Payback ****1/4
9 The Shield V Evolution Extreme Rules ****1/4
10 Daniel Bryan V Bray Wyatt Royal Rumble ****1/4


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Cena V Wyatt ****. Its really dumb. But its a hell of a time if you like TEH SPOTZ.

Shield V Evolution ***1/2. Was alright. Didn't have a flow and the crowd wasn't into it as you would expect.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Only watched 2 matches from Payback, got up early before work and watched during breakfast, how sad is that? Shield/Evolution wasn't what I was expecting it to be but I still liked it, nowhere near their epic ER clash, but still good. It did drag a bit and despite the flashes of brilliance throughout it did seem a bit lost here and there and that stops me from going any higher than ******. I loved the wild brawl at the start before they transitioned back into the ring. I would have preferred a more chaotic approach to the match but still dug the format they went for. The gang rape of Reigns was BRUTAL. I loved that and Reigns sold like a champ. He did superman towards the end, all 3 Shield boys did but this whole feud was clearly designed to put them over big time and that's exactly what happened here. I have a feeling this will go down on a rewatch tbh but upon the first viewing, it sits at a comfortable 4. 

Steph/Bryan was MOTN as far as I'm concerned. Epic selling from Bryan the whole way through. His face just told the story of the match and he looked despondent when those Punk chants broke out. But Stephanie's incredible limb work used the chants to her advantage, putting more heat on herself and making Bryan even more sympathetic by dropping a MASSIVE ether on the Chicago crowd. The interference from Brie was welcome and the ref didn't even see her take a shot at Steph thus allowing Bryan to get the win. Awesome match and I hope we see another one from these 2 soon. Unbelievable chemistry and without a doubt a ******* match. 

I'm planning on binging tomorrow since I have a day off. Payback where I'll watch the highly debated Cena/Wyatt match along with Raw and Takeover. :mark:


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Cesaro vs. Sheamus - ***1/2
Rhodes vs. Rybaxel - ***
Big E vs. Rusev - **3/4
RVD vs. Barrett - **1/2
Wyatt vs. Cena - ****
Paige vs. Fox - *1/2
Evolution vs. Shield - ***1/4

Much better than Extreme Rules, but still not as good as WM, RR or EC. This year is delivering in abundance as far as PPVs go.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The sell job by Reigns as Evolution were surrounding him/ripping the vest off/whipping him with the sticks over the steps like a modern day crucifixion was one of the few things I liked about the main event. There are random little things that happen in most Shield matches that I always enjoy, but not much on the whole. The one thing I noticed, which isn't a big revelation or anything, was how when the Shield fellas were taking turns on Triple H midway through the match, Reigns seemingly had no idea what to do with Hunter, but when Rollins and Ambrose were in there, it was high octane stuff. Much less interesting when Reigns was in there with him. Dude can sell very well, but his overall ring prowess just isn't there yet. I guess I'll rewatch the main event a bit later.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I :mark:'ed for all 3 individual Trips/Shield interactions. TV shot to Rollins was great, low blow to Ambrose was great, rape of Reigns was...great. Like I said, there were flashes of brilliance throughout but not enough to take this to the next level. I also really want to see Orton/Rollins and Orton/Ambrose down the line too. Crowd popped big time for the Trips/Reigns stare down though. I'm a big Reigns supporter and think he has all the tools but I'm with those who say he isn't quite ready. His mannerisms, selling, signature moves, basically all the stuff that is hardest to teach, is all fine. It's the actual ring content that needs work and will be most exposed when he's in there on his own because at times he does look a little lost. 

I hope Trips/Reigns @ Summerslam is off the cards after last night. As much as I have enjoyed it, Shield/Evolution needs to be put to rest now. Shield went over twice. There's nowhere to go now and if they were planning Reigns/Hunter they just took a lot of air out of the balloon by having Reigns pin him already. I'm interested in seeing where both Shield and Evolution go after tonight. I'm thinking Hunter is going to be mega butthurt and pit them all against each other in the MITB match. It seems likely.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

One of my favorite parts of the HHH/Shield segments was towards the end when he grabbed the sledgehammer and Cole said "A wounded King is standing his ground." Such a :mark: moment for me.

I'll probably post some highly underrated 2014 matches later tonight, EVERYONE NEEDS THEM!


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

WWE PAYBACK 6/1

Kickoff: Hair vs Mask Match
Hornswoggle vs El Torito ** (FUN, Entertained)

WWE United States Championship
Sheamus (c) vs Cesaro ***1/4 (Very Good but the finish meh)

Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Ryback & Curtis Axel ** (Entertained)

Rusev vs Big E * (Squash, but enjoyable)

Kofi Kingston vs Bo Dallas N/A

WWE Intercontinental Championship
Bad News Barrett (c) vs Rob Van Dam *1/4 (Boring)

Last Man Standing Match
Bray Wyatt vs John Cena ***3/4 (Very Good Match, but the match are Cena vs Wyatt)

WWE Diva's Championship
Paige (c) vs Alicia Fox *1/4 (Ok)

No Holds Barred Elimination Match
Evolution (Triple H, Randy Orton & Batista) vs The Shield (Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns) **** (Great Match, i love this, honestly the match of Extreme Rules was better but this is great, in few moments Evolution takes the control but finally The Shield destroys this fuckin stable)

Overall Grade: 7.75


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Payback now. Sheamus/Cesaro was pretty great. Wasn't a big fan of the inside cradle finish though. It wasn't bad or anything it just wasn't what I wanted. The rest of the match was exactly what I wanted, the two of them throwing everything and the kitchen sink at each other and that's what I wanted from the finish too. A big shot to settle things. I know they were protecting Cesaro but it didn't feel like an appropriate finish to me. Very good match nonetheless. Pretty sure I still prefer their 2013 matches but this was really good.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Holy hell, did Wyatt/Cena suck saly sweaty balls or what? Talking about spamming the LMS gimmick to death. There was like 15-20 "knockdowns", amirite? Jeeez... Sure, some might say it was a "fun spotfest", but in my opinion - it wasn't fun at all, minus that super dangerous Harper superplex, or Wyatt's finisher on the floor, that's it. I just wasn't feeling the match, no energy. So many dry and hollow parts.

Rating: bad


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Chismo said:


> Holy hell, did Wyatt/Cena suck saly sweaty balls or what? Talking about spamming the LMS gimmick to death. There was like 15-20 "knockdowns", amirite? Jeeez... Sure, some might say it was a "fun spotfest", but in my opinion - it wasn't fun at all, minus that super dangerous Harper superplex, or Wyatt's finisher on the floor, that's it. I just wasn't feeling the match, no energy. So many dry and hollow parts.
> 
> Rating: bad


:cena6

I'm really looking forward to watching this now :lol. People either love the thing or hate it. It's going to be interesting.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

> I'm a big Reigns supporter and think he has all the tools but I'm with those who say he isn't quite ready. His mannerisms, selling, signature moves, basically all the stuff that is hardest to teach, is all fine. It's the actual ring content that needs work and will be most exposed when he's in there on his own because at times he does look a little lost.


My thoughts exactly regarding Reigns. 



> I hope Trips/Reigns @ Summerslam is off the cards after last night. As much as I have enjoyed it, Shield/Evolution needs to be put to rest now. Shield went over twice. There's nowhere to go now and if they were planning Reigns/Hunter they just took a lot of air out of the balloon by having Reigns pin him already. I'm interested in seeing where both Shield and Evolution go after tonight. I'm thinking Hunter is going to be mega butthurt and pit them all against each other in the MITB match. It seems likely


They could still do Reigns/H, since it took all three of them to take out Hunter. I don't think it needs to happen, but it very well could. Hunter could cost Reigns title shots or keep pestering them the next month before Reigns lays down the challenge. 

I will say this, if Hunter goes into to another big match (including a match with Reigns) without having won at least once or twice, I'll be pretty disappointed. After last night, Evolution could have easily gone over with a dirty finish at Extreme Rules, and Shield wouldn't have been hurt by it. Hunter continously getting the upperhand on TV but losing every match he's in gets old. He's basically Chris Jericho with power. I'm all for new guys getting the rub, and Trips at this point is the guy getting guys over, but he needs to win sometime. The guy hasn't won a match since Wrestlemania 29 (including 3 losses to Curtis Axel :lmao).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hornswoggle/Torito - **
-------------------------
Sheamus/Cesaro - ***3/4 (MOTN)
Rhodes/Rybaxel - **3/4
Big E/Rusev - HOLY SHIT THIS WAS AWESOME **
Kofi/Dallas - I don't give N/A's so DUD
Barrett/RVD - ***
Cena/Wyatt - ***
Paige/Alicia - *1/2
Evolution/Shield - ***1/4

When was the last time that the MOTN was the fucking US Title match? Goes all the way back to Hell In A Cell 2010 actually. Sheamus/Cesaro was (Y) all the way through. Just everything I was expecting - a wild BRAWL.

Can't really say the same for Evolution/Shield though. It was definitely a good match overall, favorite moment being Evolution was going Inquisition on Reigns' ass. However, one thing that really bothered me: they started in a wild-ass war... and out of sudden they just go back to normal tag? WTF? NO HOLDS BARRED, bookers. NO. HOLDS. BARRED. They should've been let loose from the fucking start. A full star lower than the Extreme Rules showdown for me. Good, but definitely a dissapointment. Can't say that deep down I didn't saw it coming though.

Speaking of seeing it coming, I totally saw Cena winning his match. I had hope Bray would pull it, but this is the real world. That being said, this LMS match - or better, 6-on-6 tag w/LMS rules for Cena and Bray - was like Pacific Rim - it was dumb as holy crap, but it was also fun as holy crap. Some of the bumps taken were pretty sick. Can't really give it an unfavorable rating for that, even if on a psychology aspect the match sucked balls.

Barrett/RVD didn't surprise me, given how Wade carried their first match on Raw, and this was no different. The ending especially I liked.

Surprise of the night though BY FAR: Big E/Rusev. I tell you, that thing was going AWESOMELY. If only they had Big E teasing the Big Ending on Rusev by lifting him up at the end only for him to counter it into the Camel Clutch. Would've made it even better.

Everything else was there. Rhodes/Rybaxel was OK, Paige/Alicia was OK for Divas standards, the Bryan segment was good until Brie opened her mouth, Bo Dallas kinda sucks, the pre-show was far from the glory that was the WeeLC match but still entertaining, game over.

Decent PPV overall.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Helmsley said:


> They could still do Reigns/H, since it took all three of them to take out Hunter. I don't think it needs to happen, but it very well could. Hunter could cost Reigns title shots or keep pestering them the next month before Reigns lays down the challenge.
> 
> I will say this, if Hunter goes into to another big match (including a match with Reigns) without having won at least once or twice, I'll be pretty disappointed. After last night, Evolution could have easily gone over with a dirty finish at Extreme Rules, and Shield wouldn't have been hurt by it. Hunter continously getting the upperhand on TV but losing every match he's in gets old. He's basically Chris Jericho with power. I'm all for new guys getting the rub, and Trips at this point is the guy getting guys over, but he needs to win sometime. The guy hasn't won a match since Wrestlemania 29 (including 3 losses to Curtis Axel :lmao).


The thing is, if they still plan on doing HHH/Reigns at SummerSlam (which I'm not sure about after last night), I can't think of a match between now and then for Triple H to get a win in. I'd be down for them feeding him somebody like Big Show but that should've happened last year instead of Orton/Show. Now it would just be random.

I'm interested in what goes down on Raw tonight. I doubt it'll be a good show because the product (the storylines/programs/feuds, not the matches) is in a serious post-Mania slump atm. Cena and Wyatt need to move in new directions for starters. No clue what they'll do with HHH and Orton.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> The thing is, if they still plan on doing HHH/Reigns at SummerSlam (which I'm not sure about after last night), I can't think of a match between now and then for Triple H to get a win in. I'd be down for them feeding him somebody like Big Show but that should've happened last year instead of Orton/Show. Now it would just be random.
> 
> I'm interested in what goes down on Raw tonight. I doubt it'll be a good show because the product (the storylines/programs/feuds, not the matches) is in a serious post-Mania slump atm. Cena and Wyatt need to move in new directions for starters. No clue what they'll do with HHH and Orton.


HHH could easily go over Ambrose and Rollins on Raw before Summerslam if that's the direction they choose to go in.


----------



## Dynamite madness (Mar 23, 2014)

Somebody here should check out Hbk vs Jeff hardy on Raw 2008. It was so great.
I Personally have it at ****1/4 because of how well it was structured and it woke the crowd up and by the end they were cheering. It was kinda like a forgotten dream match and when people talk about the greatest Raw matches, this match does not come op and it is a shame. This match is as good as HBK/Cena, Taker/Hardy and Cena/Punk 2013.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rusev/Big E was a blast. 

Lana :yum:



Ryan193 said:


> HHH could easily go over Ambrose and Rollins on Raw before Summerslam if that's the direction they choose to go in.


Yeah but I don't wanna see that. Evolution went above and beyond to make all three members of The Shield look like stars at the last two PPVs. I'm fine with HHH going the extra mile to put Reigns over in a singles match but after last night's clean sweep it shouldn't be at the expense of Ambrose and Rollins.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Watched Takeover last night. Thought it was a solid show.

Zayn/Breeze - in the ***1/2-3/4 territory. Take away his brilliant Spinning Wheel Kick, and Breeze doesn't impress for me. His character, much like Fandango, starts to go out the window as the match goes on, and he could be one of a dozen in there by the end. It just doesn't morph and change shape with the flow of the match. Zayn is great - the botch is on not getting Breeze's arm over Sami's head after the double knuckle lock. I assume Sami needs to get his opponent into that position (cradled) for the Orange Crush, and so doing the knuckle lock is a more clever guise given his character than going straight to the cradle from standing. It was recovered from well. Liked the ending as well - DBry 2.0 here we go!

Natalya/Charlotte - ***. Rushed. And I love the chain. Love it. Nattie does that thing that guys like Ultimo and Jericho are infamous for in my eyes - in the same damn match, she impresses, and then makes you fpalm. Her face most of the time is awful. She can do some great things, but then won't get flat to her stomach for an armbar, takes Flair's finish terribly, and other such nonsense. Charlotte, while still having flashes of deer meet headlights, looks better every time I see her. Another 6mo-year and she'll be a viable Diva's Title contender. But then, maybe she'll end up like Nattie and only get half way there.

Neville/Kidd - ***1/4. Solid, with a couple creative counters thrown in, but damn if "I need this!" from Kidd didn't cringe me up all over. I didn't really understand the Tree of Woe bit either. Why set guy up in a ToW just so you can lift him up by the hair and kick his back? Convoluted. Just snapmare a bitch and kick his back - no minute set up. I mean, at least argue with the ref after he counts to five and then kick the back when the opponent tries to pull himself up to untie himself - "let the position come naturally" kind of thing. A reoccurring theme - except that Russian Leg Sweep - that shit was awesome! Kidd just doesn't give me anything to believe in, even with the heel turn. Neville was solid, but the pairing was only so-so. 

Decent show, YAH will not be a thing on the main roster, Rusev squash makes me smile, and Kalisto debuted! (Dear Lord, please let Ricardo get better or find a new profession)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished Bray/Cena

Worst parts:

-No psychology and no continuity in the selling
-They spammed the wholly fuck out of the 10 count, on Cena/Edge BL 09' levels
-It dragged a lot at times, and even though I love Harper and Rowan, the interference and especially the Usos detracted from what should have been a 1 on 1 encounter
-the camera men. Sheesh. They fucking suck so bad at shooting matches, they missed one of the biggest spots for Christ sake

Best parts:

-Cool spots, with the steel steps spot being the highlight


Yea, not really a fan at all. I didn't even have much fun watching it. I just can't stand when they do 15-20 of those 10 counts. It bores the shit out of me. It was just like "alright, Cena hits a big move, 10 count. Bray then hits a big move, 10 count. Bray hits another 2 moves, 10 count. Cena hits a move, 10 count". Not a wrestling match, just a spotfest in the most literal sense. Go watch a legitimate all time great match, the LMS between Jericho and Hunter, then watch this and you tell me, which was better? You can still have a real wrestling match with selling and psychology while do a LMS gimmick. You just need to work at it and plan it well. Most of the LMS they do nowadays are just the same damn formula, big spot-10 count-big spot. Ugh. And of course, Cena wins by literally burying Bray. The symbolism can't have been an accident. Bray needs to move the fuck on from this and get with a guy the fans actually love so he can try to get some heat back. Or do the opposite and work with a guy who has legit heat so he can turn fully face. Cena is doing him no favors at this point.

I'll give it **1/2 and that's almost being generous.

Sheamus/Cesaro left me really unimpressed as well. Their Main Event match from 2013 was about 5 times better. They just never really got rolling, and right when you think they are gonna kick it into another gear, it ends with the weakest finish ever. Let me get this straight, Cesaro can kick out of White Noise, but he can't kick out of giving someone ELSE the Big Swing?? Makes no sense at all. The Big Swing is supposed to disorient his opponent, yet as soon as Cesaro tossed Sheamus away, Sheamus small packages him for the win. So Sheamus wasn't too dizzy that he could use a small package, but Cesaro was so disoriented from HIS OWN MOVE that he couldn't kick out? Fucking weak, that damn near spoiled the whole thing.

I give it ***, should have been so much better.

Off to watch Evolution/Shield. This better be good. Or else some how, some way, Big E vs Rusev is gonna end up being my MotN fpalm


Edit: :lmao BLUETISTA :lmao :lmao :lmao Did he not get the memo that everyone is wearing black? He looks fucking ridiculous.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Dynamite madness said:


> Somebody here should check out Hbk vs Jeff hardy on Raw 2008. It was so great.
> I Personally have it at ****1/4 because of how well it was structured and it woke the crowd up and by the end they were cheering. It was kinda like a forgotten dream match and when people talk about the greatest Raw matches, this match does not come op and it is a shame. This match is as good as HBK/Cena, Taker/Hardy and Cena/Punk 2013.


I haven't watched that match in a long time but I do remember watching it live and loving every second of it. Definitely a match that flies under the radar that year. Gonna watch it now just to see if it'll hold up.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Does it make me a sap/dumb mark that I get a BIG smile on my face whenever I see another great wrestler pay their respects to MY favorite wrestler, Eddie Guerrero, by busting out the 3 amigos in a match? It's cool after all this time that whenever someone does it, the crowd immediately starts up with the "Eddie, Eddie, Eddie" chants, it's nice to know the new generation remembers him. 

Anyways, it was cool seeing Rollins and Brock do Eddies signature move this past year


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Going to watch SummerSlam '09 pretty soon. Iirc, PPV was pretty good, really liked Dolph/Mysterio and Punk/Hardy, Punk match especially.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually thought Sheamus and Cesaro kicked into that top gear from the onset, and that's why that match ruled. They didn't bullshit around. They just hit really hard and really fast the moment the bell rang. It's also amazing how they were able to model such a good match without any finishers. Those two could have a two hour ironman match and I would watch every second.

Shield/Evolution II dropped a bit, but I'm still in the camp that loves it. Of course, most of it is because of how much I love The Shield, but I never got this sense of a loss of drama or any parts dragging. Glad to see people not blindly write off Rusev/Big E because of who is involved. People in this thread have a dangerous tendency of doing so, with one man in particular who has made it stylish to refuse watching matches on shows.

Cjack, is Wale as big in the DMV area as Lupe Fiasco is in Chicago? Props for dropping the Razor Ramon freestyle. Dude always talks about wrestling on his Twitter.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Need to re-watch Cesaro/Sheamus and the main event. Won't even bother watching Cena/Wyatt again, I know I'll hate it on a second watch lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I actually thought Sheamus and Cesaro kicked into that top gear from the onset, and that's why that match ruled. They didn't bullshit around. They just hit really hard and really fast the moment the bell rang. It's also amazing how they were able to model such a good match without any finishers. Those two could have a two hour ironman match and I would watch every second.


Agreed. There was no feeling out process, they went at it from the word go and kept the pace and intensity high throughout. Disappointing finish to an otherwise satisfying match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I actually thought Sheamus and Cesaro kicked into that top gear from the onset, and that's why that match ruled. They didn't bullshit around. They just hit really hard and really fast the moment the bell rang. It's also amazing how they were able to model such a good match without any finishers. Those two could have a two hour ironman match and I would watch every second.
> 
> Shield/Evolution II dropped a bit, but I'm still in the camp that loves it. Of course, most of it is because of how much I love The Shield, but I never got this sense of a loss of drama or any parts dragging. Glad to see people not blindly write off Rusev/Big E because of who is involved. People in this thread have a dangerous tendency of doing so, with one man in particular who has made it stylish to refuse watching matches on shows.
> 
> Cjack, is Wale as big in the DMV area as Lupe Fiasco is in Chicago? Props for dropping the Razor Ramon freestyle. Dude always talks about wrestling on his Twitter.





Saint Dick said:


> Agreed. There was no feeling out process, they went at it from the word go and kept the pace and intensity high throughout. Disappointing finish to an otherwise satisfying match.


It just didn't feel any different than their Raw matches to me, and unless my memory fails me, their Main Event match last year smoked what they did last night and shows what they are capable of when they really kick it up a notch. Do you atleast agree the finish was completely nonsensical and utter shit? Maybe it's just that I expected more, I figured you give two guys as talented as they are 10 minutes at a PPV you should get something great, and I never got the feeling I was watching a great match. They were definitely physical though, I'll give that to them.

Funnyfaces: Wale is huge in this area. Oddly enough, the only non-main stream hip hop artist/group that's bigger than Wale in the DMV is Dipset. For whatever reason, from the skate board punks, to the preps, the jocks, the festival kids, everyone around here LOVES golden age (2003-2006) Dipset. Go-Go is big too, obviously, but that's a sect of music that's only a DMV thing and that's part of why people love Wale so much, you hear a lot of Go Go influence in his earlier music, especially on classics like "The Mixtape About Nothing", Wale's ode to Seinfeld. I just thought people might enjoy hearing a talented rapper who actually LOVES wrestling drop a freestyle on it. You can tell the dude knows his shit.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Sheamus/Cesaro ruled, crazy how they have had three 10+ matches, two of them being 15+ within the last month and they are still just as entertaining as the last, if not better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Wyatt went up for me on rewatch, but the only reason why I have it so high (***3/4*) is because it's among the funniest matches I've ever seen. Absolutely nothing made even a shroud of sense, but one thing you cannot deny at all is that these guys had tons of energy. It's just that they allocated the energy into turning the match into a cartoon rather than a well-worked bout. But while it fails most other tests in wrestling, it passes the most important one: it's fun to watch. Plus Chicago to me is like Tokyo Dome is to :meltzer

Summerslam 2009 might be the second best show that year. Three very good matches, including the best main event of that year. Just make sure to skip Orton/Cena. Not even Orton or Cena's fault. Whoever the road agent was for that match needs their balls cut off.

EDIT: The finish was very anti-climatic to Sheamus/Cesaro. I'll agree with you there. But like others have said, I understand the reason behind it. And I would much rather not see Cesaro succumb to another Brogue Kick.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Watched the first 20 episodes of RAW so far, and now watching KOTR '93. Gotten through the first hour, which has been all first round matches, and it's been pretty solid so far. Next up its Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart. Should be good. 

can't wait to get to the later part of '93 and witness the legendary run of LUDVIG BORGA. :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*@The Rabid Wolverine:* Yeah, I didn't like the finish. Thought everything else was great.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

So yeah, just re-watched Hardy/Michaels from RAW 08 and it's even better than on the last watch. Still dig the story with Jeff Hardy throwing everything he has at Shawn to prove his worth in the Elimination Chamber and Shawn being the more experienced veteran and out-smarting Hardy at every turn. Also some nice limb-work from Shawn by picking apart Hardy's lower back along with splendid selling from Hardy. The last 3 minutes of the match is just insane as it gets and the unexpected finish always gets me. Wonderful work between the two.

By the way, I forgot how superb JR's commentary was during this match. "Michaels may be seeing himself in Jeff Hardy!"


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Payback ratings 

Shamus/Cesaro:****
Tag: ***
Big E/rusev:***
Barrett/RVD:***1/4 
Cena/Wyatt:****1/4 
Shield/Evo:***1/2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

LMFAO at Damien Sandow dressing up as Lance Stephenson. How dare anyone criticize this man?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> I really enjoyed the two main events, despite the finish of the last man standing match... well, the entire match. It was pretty much a six man tag team anything goes match with an LMS stipulation for Cena/Wyatt lol.
> 
> Torito/Hornswoggle: 3/4*
> Cesaro/Sheamus: ***1/2
> ...


Yeah, surprised people are so negative here (I'm only up to your post, though. Perhaps the tone got better). I watched with people who don't follow the product hardcore and are casuals. Maybe that contributed to my enjoyment. It always does. Pays to be less cynical and less invested.

Been a bit down on the product recently, but I thoroughly enjoyed that PPV last night.

Rusev/Big E would be higher for me. It was fun and I thought "that thread is so gonna love this." :lmao

I'm betting there's gonna be some comment in here that that was better than the main event(s).

Absolutely crazy how much this thread veers off from what much of the rest of the posters here think. And doubly crazy, is how much the IWC tends to contrast vastly with casuals. They enjoy things a lot more, and I see now why Vince seems to not give a shit. It's like is he out of step or are the hardcore fans? It's hard to say.

Now watch RAW make me displeased with the product again (just now starting to watch)...


ETA: And I knew that people here would be saying that Cesaro/Sheamus was the MOTN. :lol

C2D, I'll have you know that Sheamus is growing on me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I watched Payback with my girlfriend and she thought the main event sucked too. 

Usos vs. Rowan & Harper from RAW pretty damn good from what I saw.


----------



## Dynamite madness (Mar 23, 2014)

Guy LeDouche said:


> So yeah, just re-watched Hardy/Michaels from RAW 08 and it's even better than on the last watch. Still dig the story with Jeff Hardy throwing everything he has at Shawn to prove his worth in the Elimination Chamber and Shawn being the more experienced veteran and out-smarting Hardy at every turn. Also some nice limb-work from Shawn by picking apart Hardy's lower back along with splendid selling from Hardy. The last 3 minutes of the match is just insane as it gets and the unexpected finish always gets me. Wonderful work between the two.
> 
> By the way, I forgot how superb JR's commentary was during this match. "Michaels may be seeing himself in Jeff Hardy!"


Absolutely great match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Yeah, surprised people are so negative here (I'm only up to your post, though. Perhaps the tone got better). I watched with people who don't follow the product hardcore and are casuals. Maybe that contributed to my enjoyment. It always does. Pays to be less cynical and less invested.
> 
> Been a bit down on the product recently, but I thoroughly enjoyed that PPV last night.
> 
> ...


LILOLME REBELLION?!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Re: Meltzer: Meltzer was at the show in Chicago, right?

That could contribute to why he thinks so highly of the Cena/Wyatt LMS. They absolutely had the crowd in the palm of their hands the whole time.

It honestly reminded me of Shield vs. HellNO TLC, so good call on that, TLK.

If you can have an arena enraptured the whole time -- especially when it doesn't involve an ultra-fan favorite, like a Bryan -- it's hard to really argue that the wrestlers aren't doing their job.

I mean, I get it, 'cause there are certainly matches that I don't like that crowds like, but I bet most people in that arena felt exactly like Meltzer. So does that really make him off his rocker, even if you don't like the match?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy hell, Sheamus vs. Cesaro at Payback was awesome! Perfect finish to a fantastic back and forth showcase for both men. **** all the way.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Consider the fact that it's Chicago. The greatest wrestling city in the world. We react to everything because we are better human beings than you non-Chicagoans. :side: But to be serious, the people in this thread completely isolate crowd reaction to performance, which is kinda understandable.

This Rusev segment :lmao


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Nah, but they were especially alive during that match, and maintained it throughout almost the entire thing.

Somebody made a great point that the Usos were selling more than Cena was at the end of that thing. :lmao

Still loved it, though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL HELL JUST HAPPENED ON RAW??? I'm in shock.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK! I'm angrier than when Punk turned heel in RAW 1000!

Bah, at least we got to witness the greatest stable of all time.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't know. Always felt like The Shield could have lasted another solid two years. Heck, they didn't even last two years! I always saw The Shield as a unique stable. The three could move on with their singles career but still be a team together. Oh well, I guess all good things must come to end. No doubt, they've earned a place in history as one of the GOAT stables.

I guess, going forward, the main topic of discussion is whether or not Rollins was the right choice. He's such a natural babyface. Ambrose on the other hand would have been a more natural fit to play the villain role. However, for the Evolution faction, I'd say they made the better choice in Rollins. Ambrose just wouldn't fit in despite being a natural heel. Then again, tbh, I always found that Rollins 'borrowed' a little bit from Ambrose in terms of promo style and delivery. God, this is gonna be so weird lol.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

This was our Red Wedding

Maybe Ambrose should have turned, he's the natural heel for recent storyline purposes. But if we're thinking ahead Rollins gets turned on by trips and orton making him a huge star. Watch them redo the benoit/orton story with Rollins.

Well that's the end of the best stable in WWE history, I'm depressed

But they have me hooked for next week to see how it turns out, so good job WWE


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Haven't seen it yet but I'm marking since Rollins is my favorite of the group. Seeing him walk out in a suit next to Trips to Evolution music = :mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

They knew they needed to do something big and they did. I'm happy with it. I think The Shield did about as much as they could as a group. There were no more teams left for them to feud with and although they could've moved on with their singles careers while remaining a team it's a lot more interesting this way. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Holy hell, Sheamus vs. Cesaro at Payback was awesome! Perfect finish to a fantastic back and forth showcase for both men. **** all the way.


How was that the perfect finish?


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Stays within the purpose of Evolution too. Rollins is the 2014 version of what Orton was to the group in the original incarnation.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Making Rollins the standout babyface :mark:

Missed the whole second hour, but the opening tag was pretty good I thought, would go ***1/4 for it, please give me Cesaro/BNB!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Lady Killer said:


> Stays within the purpose of Evolution too. Rollins is the 2014 version of what Orton was to the group on the original incarnation.


Adapt or perish. :HHH2

It's great booking when you think about it. Shield went over Evolution twice in a row and looked like real stars doing it. HHH gets his heat back and comes out on top tonight without The Shield having to suffer an actual loss.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The amount of butthurt is akin what it was when the Streak ended.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I give the company props for pulling off such a crazy turn. No one in the universe saw this coming. I have no idea how it's gonna turn out, but we shall see. 



Saint Dick said:


> How was that the perfect finish?


It was completely unexpected and came out of nowhere, kept the crowd hot, and allows the feud to continue if necessary. I loved it.

About to give Cena/Wyatt the rewatch treatment. Wish me luck.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I'm not taking a whole lot of stock in this because I'm not so sure we have seen the last of the Shield seeing how given the option I could easily see this being a snake-around with Seth being turned on and Reigns/Ambrose accepting him back in on account that Seth held the group down for so long and hence with the shoe on the other foot forgiveness is given. I suppose at the same time though, that can be a good basis for Seth's splitting: managing the egos and being the team player when it is Rollins' time to shine now. Seth could claim he needed to allign himself with guys who could get him to the top and that with Shield in regards to the ultimate title he was spinning his wheels. 

If they really are planning on this long term, than I wonder why. While this is a surprise now, I have to think there was a lot more money to be made off this turn; while the Shield have done alot, it feels like even more could've been done and while Reigns' few moves are aesthetically awesome and probably the easiest moveset for the casual fan to digest, the man is clearly in need of more polish and probably some better ring shape before going solo full time. I'm not familiar with Tyler Black, but watching Rollins, I do wonder if he can translate his moveset with ferocity and callousness ala Eddie Guerrero. I would assume so seeing how that enzuguri sideways kick, turnbuckle powerbomb, ddt into turnbuckle and the Blackout can all be delivered with heightened intensity. Rollins has a bumping/selling penchant, so if this is long term this man can make babyfaces/comebacks look like a million bucks which bodes well plus we could get a Rollins/Orton tag action. If this is the last of the Shield, what a hell of a run in terms of remarkably consistent match quality it was (Payback withstanding imo)


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Mad that I accidently spoiled that for myself. Saw Jack Evans' first post, then quickly closed the page. But I knew that obviously something shocking must have happened. Later on I forgot about that post, though, and Googled "Lesnar Guy" 'cause I always wanted to know about him, and absentmindedly clicked on his Twitter. Saw a pic of Seth standing there with H. 

I just automatically assumed that Seth & Dean both turned on Roman. Shocked that it was just Seth.

The Seth fan in me is glad, 'cause that means that the company doesn't just view him as disposable. That's a good thing. It's also more shocking that way.

I love the Shield together, but I'm happy about this, because it gives RAWs a jolt of energy. Though people will be complaining in a few weeks that shit is repetitive. But whatever, right now, I think that they're going to have people engrossed.

And yes, I agree with TLK. It'll be fun to see Seth coming out in suits, though Evolution doesn't do that enough right now.

Hope this doesn't leave Ambrose in limbo, though I fear it will. He's too good for that.

Also been wanting to see an Orton vs. Rollins match, but will have to wait awhile for that now. I do agree that Seth is going to end up in the Orton circa '04 role.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Not including Lesnar defeating Taker at WM30, I don't remember the last time I was as shocked as I was when Rollins turned. There's that.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Helmsley said:


> The amount of butthurt is akin what it was when the Streak ended.


I was gonna say, the reaction in the audience was exactly like when the Streak ended, minus the angst.

You could tell that it was truly shocking to people. You could hear a pin drop.

I wonder how mad someone must have been to have the streak result spoiled? :lol That would have been a bummer. Glad I was watching that one live.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Final thoughts on Cena/Wyatt:

Well I had a lot more fun watching this time around than I did last night, but all of that fun was due to the Usos & Rowan/Harper. They put on a better mini match than Cena & Wyatt did.  Those two just wouldn't fucking sell ANYTHING. I blame the ref partially for counting so damn fast but I just felt like they went crazy with all the bumps and spots (and not in a good way). The first few minutes were really good until Usos & Rowan left, then it was literally just 'I'm gonna use this weapon on you, then you do the same to me and we'll run to the next spot afterwards.' We actually missed a Sister Abigail into the barricade while they were still showing a replay for that fucking CRAZY steel steps toss. That moment when one of the Usos ran headfirst into the table was hilarious because you could see it coming from a mile away. :lol All in all I'll give it credit for being one hell of a spectacle and if I was in the crowd in attendance I'd be going apeshit, but watching from home it's not a good _match_ by any means. Too much no-selling for me, which is a vital point in a match like this. *** 1/2* is what I'll settle on. 

The rest of the show:

Sheamus vs. Cesaro - **** (MOTN)

Rhodes Bros vs. RybAxel - ** 1/2 (Completely acceptable and fun filler. Super hot finishing stretch)

Big E vs. Rusev - N/R (FUN)

Bad News Barrett vs. RVD - ** 3/4 (The first half of this was your typical RVD moveset but they had the crowd eating out of the palm of their hand in the last couple minutes. Solid stuff)

Not sure if I'm gonna rewatch the main event or not. It REALLY frustrated me the first time.


----------



## twoplustwopoker (Jun 1, 2014)

LilOlMe said:


> I was gonna say, the reaction in the audience was exactly like when the Streak ended, minus the angst.
> 
> You could tell that it was truly shocking to people. You could hear a pin drop.


Or they were confused because it made no sense considering Evolution lost the night before, Seth didn't know Batista was quitting so he'd have to switch sides in about an hour, and he saved Roman and Ambrose the night before with a helluva dive. Should've turned at PayBack if they were going this route.


----------



## Wonderllama (Apr 8, 2014)

I look forward to Seth Rollins' four star matches vs. John Cena & Daniel Bryan later in the year


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

It's all well and good to say that nobody saw the turn coming. However, if no one sees it coming, it's usually because the decision is fucking stupid.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> Holy hell, did Wyatt/Cena suck saly sweaty balls or what? Talking about spamming the LMS gimmick to death. There was like 15-20 "knockdowns", amirite? Jeeez... Sure, some might say it was a "fun spotfest", but in my opinion - it wasn't fun at all, minus that super dangerous Harper superplex, or Wyatt's finisher on the floor, that's it. I just wasn't feeling the match, no energy. So many dry and hollow parts.
> 
> Rating: bad


Wholeheartedly agree with this.

Not one match on Payback was good or delivered to where it should have. Wyatt/Cena was booked ridiculously out of its own context. I struggle to understand why Cena would hesitate with the first chair shot. It's _part of the match gimmick_, and we've seen him do far worse within the same environ. He wasn't afraid of accidentally challenging this monster like he was at Wrestlemania, while the entire notion was seemingly dropped everywhere else. Clusterfuckery aside, it only got somewhat interesting when the car crash spots started being run through and it quickly passed once the other guys were taken out. Nevermind how many countdowns were used, I lost count of the finishers spammed, as well. 

I also cannot fathom why people aren't enjoying Evolution/Shield as much as they did from ER when it's basically a similar match; lumbering tag with hot-flush last quarter that I'd hazard to say did a better job than ER ever could. The booking of The Shield remains strong, and Batista/HHH bumped hard and showed up to put the young guys over. As much as he may get a rep for the past decade, it seems HHH is "finally" realising what's best for business, considering the product he touches has this unmistakable aura, and he ensures to put over that product huge. Only positive to take out of this entire three hour waste. Oh, and Rusev finally has a secondary facial emotion that doesn't make him look like a Neanderthalic Festus.


EDIT: disregard any praise for the booking, the swerve at the end of Raw is just moronic.


----------



## TheVipersGirl (Sep 7, 2013)

The Lady Killer said:


> Stays within the purpose of Evolution too. Rollins is the 2014 version of what Orton was to the group in the original incarnation.


Still marking out. Just look at my icon!

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ventured into the RAW section after watching the show and my word what a mistake that was.

As for thoughts,

Seth Rollins is the effing man. He played that segment as good as I thought it could be played. At first I thought he was maybe not the right guy, but then who is? Not Dean certainly after the babyface run he's had. Not Roman b/c that would be counterproductive I'm assuming. So yeah, Seth is probably the best choice b/c he fills in any role needed of him well and is the most adaptable of the three.

Seth's already done this once, showing that he is capable of sacrificing good things if he sees better things on the horizon. Should lel at people saying it wasn't telegraphed for them b'/c they didn't see it coming. orly?

Also though that the Evolution segment that opened the show was one of the best we've gotten. Triple H laid out the plan, pretty much and Batista got what little redemption he could by sticking it to the boss. And they foreshadowed the shield implosion as well. People still don't think they gave enough hints.

One last shoutout to all the people complaining about the motivation of the character. Reminds me of someone reading a book and throwing it away after a cliffhanger ending to a chapter. Continue reading. It might make sense.

tyvm


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Ruiner87 said:


> It's all well and good to say that nobody saw the turn coming. However, if no one sees it coming, it's usually because the decision is fucking stupid.


I disagree. No one saw it coming cause Rollins is the one that kept the group together when they had issues. He can say he felt like he got no credit for all he did for the group, including the dive Sunday. 

"If it wasn't for me, there would have been no Shield."


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Holy fucking bollocks at the steps spot Wyatt took in that LMS match.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Ok, so watched Perfect vs Bret from KOTR 93' and I have to say that its one of the MOTY contenders along with Perfect/Flair from RAW #3 and Bret/Razor from the Royal Rumble. Match was pretty much what you'd expect from those two. Can't really find anything bad to say about it. Selling was good, moves made sense and were nicely executed, crowd was into it and both played their roles very well. 
Even though both were faces, Perfect took the role of the heel in this one and did a good job with it, working Bret's "injuries" really nicely. 

A thing that really stuck out to me happened after the match. Perfect, even though he was face, showed that the loss really bothered him, but still showed respect to Bret. This is something that I'd like to see more from todays faces, and not that "smile all-the-time even though you just lost an important match"-type of shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Ok, so watched Perfect vs Bret from KOTR 93' and I have to say that its one of the MOTY contenders along with Perfect/Flair from RAW #3 and Bret/Razor from the Royal Rumble. Match was pretty much what you'd expect from those two. Can't really find anything bad to say about it. Selling was good, moves made sense and were nicely executed, crowd was into it and both played their roles very well.
> Even though both were faces, Perfect took the role of the heel in this one and did a good job with it, working Bret's "injuries" really nicely.
> 
> A thing that really stuck out to me happened after the match. Perfect, even though he was face, showed that the loss really bothered him, but still showed respect to Bret. This is something that I'd like to see more from todays faces, and not that "smile all-the-time even though you just lost an important match"-type of shit.



To me, that Bret/Curt match from KotR is perfect, no pun intended. One of the 20 or so best matches in company history. I loved the story they went with, I REALLY loved the dueling promos they did before the match where they argued whose dad was tougher, and Heenan on commentary was pure gold. Bret and Curt had some of the best in ring chemistry this sport has ever seen, Curt was literally the perfect opponent for Bret at that time, and vice versa. You should check out their SS 1991 match, every bit as good. 

I don't think anyone has ever turned in a performance like Bret did at KotR 1993. He had a really good match with Razor, a great match with Bam Bam, and an all time classic with Perfect, all within the span of 2-3 hours. That's incredible.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of the often praised Ambrose/Rollins FCW match?


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> What is the date of the often praised Ambrose/Rollins FCW match?


They had 5 matches in FCW.

First one was 14/8/2011.
Second one was 28/8/2011.
Third one was 18/9/2011.
Fourth one was 2/10/2011.
Fifth one was 24/6/2012.
Three-way including Reigns was 5/2/2012.

Shameless plug, but you can find all of them from my dailymotion page below;
http://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x2hrsq_MoxleyMoxx_fcw/1#video=xxmcew

Can't remember which one of them was the "often praised one", but every one is worth checking out.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> To me, that Bret/Curt match from KotR is perfect, no pun intended. One of the 20 or so best matches in company history. I loved the story they went with, I REALLY loved the dueling promos they did before the match where they argued whose dad was tougher, and Heenan on commentary was pure gold. Bret and Curt had some of the best in ring chemistry this sport has ever seen, Curt was literally the perfect opponent for Bret at that time, and vice versa. You should check out their SS 1991 match, every bit as good.
> 
> I don't think anyone has ever turned in a performance like Bret did at KotR 1993. He had a really good match with Razor, a great match with Bam Bam, and an all time classic with Perfect, all within the span of 2-3 hours. That's incredible.


Forgot to touch on Heenan's commentary. I thought it was funny that during RAW's or any of his other matches, he always ribbed on Perfect, but not in this match. Brain almost cheered for him in this one. Must've done it out of an old habit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> They had 5 matches in FCW.
> 
> First one was 14/8/2011.
> Second one was 28/8/2011.
> ...


Thanks mate. Think it was the June match, or the Sept 2011 one lol.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Most praised one was the 3rd match.

30 minute Ironman match so the length of the video should give it away. The whole series is good though, I'd say watch them in order to appreciate it better.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

The Lady Killer said:


> Haven't seen it yet but I'm marking since Rollins is my favorite of the group. Seeing him walk out in a suit next to Trips to Evolution music = :mark::mark::mark::mark:


:mark: :mark: :mark:

So assuming this sets up the big Reigns/HHH main event at Sumerslam, where the hell does this leave Orton/Rollins/Ambrose at the moment? Will Ambrose eventually turn on Reigns as well?

Damn. I guess the rumours of Reigns facing either Brock or Rock at XXXI maybe true after all.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> Wholeheartedly agree with this.
> 
> Not one match on Payback was good or delivered to where it should have. Wyatt/Cena was booked ridiculously out of its own context. I struggle to understand why Cena would hesitate with the first chair shot. It's _part of the match gimmick_, and we've seen him do far worse within the same environ. He wasn't afraid of accidentally challenging this monster like he was at Wrestlemania, while the entire notion was seemingly dropped everywhere else. Clusterfuckery aside, it only got somewhat interesting when the car crash spots started being run through and it quickly passed once the other guys were taken out. Nevermind how many countdowns were used, I lost count of the finishers spammed, as well.
> 
> ...


Being one of the people who loved Shield/Evolution from ER and not from Payback, I can say it's because so little of the match made sense to me and they lost all the drama down the stretch with the continuous beatdown. They're definitely similar matches but it was executed far better at ER and didn't go overly long.

You didn't like Sheamus/Cesaro, Rah?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Seth turning on The Shield only means one thing... 

Another chapter in my favourite (maybe not the best, but my favourite) modern day WWE series will be written, in Ambrose vs. Rolins :mark:

Hopefully they let them have some time when they do eventually clash. Will be interesting to see how their affairs differ with the roles reversed, and how it will differ on the big stage... Especially with how much both men have developed since their last meeting two years ago.


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

> A new WWE “Fan Council” survey has been sent out, revealing over 30 potential ideas for new three-disc WWE DVD sets, including a Sting documentary and Wyatt Family “All Axxess”.
> 
> 
> *Inside the Rivalry
> ...



I love the new direction they seem to be going on these DVD sets. With each one that comes out, they are becoming less and less kayfabe and giving the fan a real unique look at the business like we have never seen before.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Seems pretty clear to me right now that Summerslam will be:

Bryan vs Bray
Hunter vs Reigns
Brock vs Cesaro
Cena vs Rusev
Rollins vs Ambrose

Maybe leave Rusev out and do Cena vs Rollins and Orton vs Ambrose.*


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Looks like a good card on paper tbh. How they get there is what matters.

Bryan/Bray, Lesnar/Cesaro, Rollins/Ambrose could all be great. HHH/Reigns will likely involve lots of weapons. Not sure about Cena/Rusev.


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

Does Rollins come out in a suit and to Evolution music now? Can't wait for Monday.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Its funny cause on Sunday before Payback I posted a comment that was completely ignored suggesting it might be a good idea for Reigns to turn on The Shield and join Evolution. I still like the idea of Reigns turning more because Seth is so likable when he wrestles, but I can't say I'm dissapointed as this means Seth has a bright future and WWE is on board with the idea that he's a future main event talent. Very interested to see where this goes, a Seth vs Bryan match for the title already has me salivating, even though we are probably 6+ months away from that ever happening.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Where does Brock/Cesaro come from?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda (Ikeda Produce) 04.24.2005*

x1ybbpt

Out of the norm for me, but i saw it recommended by Woolcock. Thoought id upload it. 

Stiff, fucking stiff.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Femto said:


> Where does Brock/Cesaro come from?


Guess Cesaro goes face on Heyman


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

That wave lol.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Eh, that's a rather poor reason for a match imo.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Nobody gives a crap that Cesaro is with Heyman, let alone if one turns on the other.


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Some Payback thoughts. Little late and this is actually my first post in this thread since the new one.. which shows how little I post in here or in general anymore, but still. :side:

I had the most fun watching Cena/Bray live. I was the most into it out of the matches to my surprise, and it was entertaining just for some of the crazy spots alone. I was 100% expecting Bray to lose a LMS to Cena, so because of that I wasn't too bothered by the loss, and felt even though Bray did lose that finish sort of protected him a bit. People comparing it to Batista losing to duct tape and thinking that finish was just as ridiculous were wrong, Batista losing to duct tape in that match with Cena was total humiliation to him, whereas in the Cena/Bray match I saw that finish as a away for Cena to finally stop the monster and the desperation to put him away after failing so many times previously. Sort of similar to Cena/Umaga, except Cena/Umaga did it much better and was a much better match overall. The Usos and Wyatts getting involved too much is something I didn't really care for in this, but it did provide a very crazy and enjoyable spot with that Harper suplex through the table. Overall it was a enjoyable match to watch live, probably would be the kind of match to go down on a re-watch, but I never really re-watch shit anymore, just not that into wrestling anymore, so sticking with my initial views on this match.

Second best match of the night was Cesaro/Sheamus. Very fun opener and due to not watching the weekly shows much at all lately it has been a while since I watched a proper Cesaro/Sheamus match again, and this didn't disappoint. These two have great chemistry with each other and I love their hard-hitting style. Cesaro can throw as many uppercuts as he wants and I'll still enjoy them because he does them so well, and his whole in-ring style I dig really. So from a in-ring standpoint he really impresses me, but as a overall performer he doesn't - and I don't care much for his alliance with Heyman now, the guy should really be a face at this point especially after his big WrestleMania moment when he slammed Big Show over the top rope. Finish of this match was fine as they're high on Cesaro and want to protect him, so the surprise roll-up on him was better for him than him eating a Brogue Kick, one of the few times I approve of a match ending in a roll-up.

The undercard matches in general were impressive on this show. Barrett/RVD was good and better than I thought it would be. Rusev/Big E was very fun for the time it got. I love Lana and I think she's putting on some of the best character work in the company right now, her promo at Payback got tremendous heat especially when she mentioned Putin, and props need to be given to her for making a outdated, done-to-death character like Rusev even remotely interesting. Little surprised by how easily they had Big E lose, dude has definitely fallen a bit, I don't really care for him so I don't mind and I'm sure the likes of Cody on here love seeing how much Big E's fallen. 8*D And I dislike when WWE put on matches on their PPV's that weren't announced before hand, but with that said, Cody Rhodes and Goldust vs Rybaxal was a fine little match.

The main event is what let this show down though. The booking in it was terrible and I hated that they made Evolution lose so easily. Evolution who are one of the greatest factions in history, losing so easily to the Shield. The one sided booking in this feud has stopped it from being anything good, a great feud is one where the heels and faces both look good and both get wins, but this feud wasn't that. Ultimately Evolution would put The Shield over, but imo, Evolution should of won one of these matches to prove how good they still are as a unit. In my opinion, they should of won at ER, after all losing at Mania, they needed a win and with the reuniting of Evolution that was the perfect time to do it. Then The Shield could of wanted a rematch to prove they could beat Evolution and it would of advanced the story better than how silly and one-sided this story has been. Anyway one thing I didn't like in the match was how long they spent just beating down on Reigns, instead of eliminating him, when Ambrose and Rollins were also for a silly amount of time. Just watching at the time it was so stupid, and just the whole match disappointed me when I came into Payback only caring for this match, but instead, this match let me down while the rest of the card impressed me, leaving me confused lol. 

Overall the PPV was better than I expected it to be, but I didn't care at all for the main event. This is a PPV that had a very enjoyable undercard, so I would honestly recommend those matches over some of the big matches to those who usually only care for the big matches.

If I had to throw star ratings it would be something like this:

Cesaro/Sheamus ****1/2*
Barrett/RVD *****
Rusev/Big E ***1/4*
Rhodes/Goldust vs Rybaxel ***1/2*
Cena/Wyatt ****3/4*
Shield/Evolution ***3/4*


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It seems like Cena/Wyatt LMS is the Angle/Benoit RR of our generation - people either love it or hate it. I think I'm the sole man in the middle ground (sees the bad things in it, but also appreciates the crazy ass spots) - although I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I enjoyed it far more than the Main Event, even though I have that rated higher :lmao

Speaking of which... THE SHIELD IS NO MORE. 
At least this thing of Seth entering Evolution's line (in the sand) may open the doors for Bryan/Rollins at SummerSlam for the title.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I thought Shield/Evo was the best match of the night and better than their ER. Wasn't paying TONS of attention but owell


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

So, I wanted to wait and catch Payback with a good buddy of mine, and I was really surprised. The build to the ppv was lackluster, but I'll be damned if I didn't enjoy the hell out of the show - probably top 10 material. Just about every match had a at least one headscratcher in it, but overall very entertaining.

Cesaro/Sheamus - ***3/4. Nearly great, crowd was super-hot for Cesaro, and was a fun slugfest. The finish was...ok. In theory, I have no problem with a quick, "instinctive" small package. However, it was Sheamus's sell that was a little weak - should have sold some of the disorientation to add more clarity to the finish. 

Rusev/Big E - ***1/2. Fucking awesome. Loved this sprint, and love Rusev. Everything was pretty much on point - Big E even had the adrenaline coursing. 5 more minutes, and this could've been the dark horse MOTN.

Wyatt/Cena - **** MOTN. W-o-W These two had so much for this one, and I really dug it except for a few hiccups and some overbooking near the end. One being Cena's footwork during the Interview w/a Vampire "corpse dance" Wyatt uses - which I love. Hopping fleet-footed around the ring while "playing corpse" takes a little away every time I see it. A couple too many 10 counts, but that is expected, and not the unholiest of sins to commit. That elbow into the barricade tho? :banderas A little too much "spotz" with the family, but the superplex to the outside was money money money...MO-NEY! Also, that first muscled high-angled AA was frickin' awesome, as was the second one on the outside, as was the last one while balancing on the equipment. Take out some of the overbooking at the end, and it's probably my MOTY. Great match. REVENGE OF THE STEEL STEPS!!!

Shield/Evo ***1/2. The only thing that killed this match was the "conventional" tag sequence in the middle - made no sense to me to have "long tags" in a damn no holds barred match. Also, that Reigns + kendo stuff was a little...homoerotic? IDK, but cringe-y to be sure. Loved the Back Suplex through the chair tho - haven't seen that since Steen or Younger in PWG. Good match, but the negatives added up moreso to me in this one.

Divas match, Barrett/RVD, and the Rhodes tag were nothing to write home about, but this ppv delivered big time. Better than Takeover (gasp!). I think people mainly had a problem with the booking, but everyone looks good when the matches are good. And guess what? It's good to be upset that your favorite didn't win - that's investment, baby!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

With all this Rollins talk, no one has brought up the WWE World Title picture. Anyone else excited about the possibilities at MITB? If Bryan does compete I'm looking forward to the Stretcher Match with Kane. I highly doubt it'll be as good as their ER match was, but there's a glimmer of hope. If he doesn't compete, the predictability of who could be the next champ is nowhere to be found. I haven't been able to pick a clear favorite in a MITB match in a while (outside of Cena in 2012). Even if it's not for the belt and just the briefcase, we should have a great match. Del Rio isn't exactly a good start though. I've always been a fan but his work has been lazy this year and for him to go over Dolph makes me really sad. Bad move imo.

Basically what I'm saying is I like the "swerve" that they may be giving us. Hopefully this is the final installment of Kane/Bryan though. 



Seabs said:


> *Seems pretty clear to me right now that Summerslam will be:
> 
> Bryan vs Bray
> Hunter vs Reigns
> ...


Three of those matches definitely seem possible but I think it's too soon for Rusev. He needs some more high profile matches before he's fed to lose to Cena. Maybe Sheamus at Summerslam? Brock vs. Cesaro seems like a longshot too. We'll see. Rollins vs. Anyone in singles on ppv is :mark: worthy though.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

I'd rather see Rollins vs Bryan at SS.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Leon Knuckles said:


> I'd rather see Rollins vs Bryan at SS.


HOLY SHIT :mark:

I could see that at Battleground. Not sure if it would produce enough "buys" for the show though. Brock/Bryan is still my money match that makes the most sense.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I figured since today is the 20th Anniversary and all, it's probably relevant to post this match, Kawada vs Misawa 6/3/94:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I figured since today is the 20th Anniversary and all, it's probably relevant to post this match, Kawada vs Misawa 6/3/94:


I was just about to say that if they do go through with a bryan/rollins program, I want it to mirror Kawada/Misawa.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Never seen that match but KAWADA. Gonna' watch it in a minute


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> HOLY SHIT :mark:
> 
> I could see that at Battleground. Not sure if it would produce enough "buys" for the show though. Brock/Bryan is still my money match that makes the most sense.


With Rollins turning heel and all, Hunter may give him a spot in the MITB match. Rollins wins, cashes in at BG and gets the title. Bryan gets his proper rematch at SS. :mark: BOOK IT.

Also at SS: Hunter vs Reigns, Orton vs Ambrose (hardcore), Lesnar vs Cesaro, Cena vs Rusev


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Bad News Barrett vs. RVD for IC Title on Main Event tonight. I imagine it'll go longer than their Payback match so it works for me.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Cena/Wyatt was wrestlecrap. That's all I'm gonna say about it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I really need to start watching some Kawada/Misawa/Kobashi shit, keep meaning to start the Misawa/Kawada comp i have.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> They had 5 matches in FCW.
> 
> First one was 14/8/2011.
> Second one was 28/8/2011.
> ...


Yeah, everyone watch that third one (Iron Man match). It's great. Here's the link:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xx...brose-iii-18-9-2011-fcw-15-championship_sport




> Forgot to touch on Heenan's commentary. I thought it was funny that during RAW's or any of his other matches, he always ribbed on Perfect, but not in this match. Brain almost cheered for him in this one. Must've done it out of an old habit.


I think that Heenan genuinely was rooting for himself. He even caught himself and said "why am I rooting for him?!" That didn't seem kayfabe, lol. 

I wonder if all of the commentators back then knew what the results would be? I know that recently, the commentators said that they don't know the results for big matches. Vince wants it to be spontaneous.

If that's the case back then, then Heenan genuinely was probably rooting for his friend out of instinct, because winning KoTR is obviously a big career boost.

Either way, I loved the commentary during that match. Loved Macho Man calling it a classy match. That it was.

It's one of the best matches in WWE history, IMO.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The best way to watch Misawa/Kawada rivalry is to start from the very beginning, and not just jump into the middle randomly. Kawada's Quest is one of the greatest arcs in pro-graps history.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Havent been in here in a while, so thought I'd share my Payback thoughts in here as well. Ive only seen the 3 matches I had somewhat of an interest in

Sheamus/Cesaro was awesome, MOTN by far. It's a great sprint that started in 3rd gear.Nice back and forths, and the finish really didnt bother me

Cena/Wyatt- Really odd match, because the first 10 mins were great, but once the props were introduced, it turned into one of the shittest matches Ive ever seen. Cena's selling in the beginning was excellent, and I was happy that their awesome mania match was not going to be a fluke as it was starting the same way. The match was all great until the props started to appear, and then it turned into this horrid, spotty, stupid match I couldnt wait until it finished. REAL REAL dangerous spot by Harper as well


Shield/Evo- Now this was interesting, because Ive seen this 2x, and the 2nd it went up from being a DUD to solid. There are things I liked and then things I didnt. I thought the match was decent until the "3 on reigns" portion and from there on it was bad. Match was too long IMO and had dull points, the whole going into the ring thing bothered me alittle, but not alot. I also have no problem w/ Orton and Batista helping after being eliminated as its NO DQ, they truly can do whatever they want. I actually DID NOT like the clean sweep, and that the first pin was 27 mins in to it.

All in all The opener would be the only match I put above "good" w/ the 6 man as "solid"


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> The best way to watch Misawa/Kawada rivalry is to start from the very beginning, and not just jump into the middle randomly. Kawada's Quest is one of the greatest arcs in pro-graps history.


I have this comp ive been meaning to start watching these past few weeks:



Spoiler: Kawada vs Misawa



http://www.cagematch.net/?id=111&nr=2596

Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada (14 Discs)

DISC 1: "The Prologue"

1. 1988 RWTL: Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu (12/16/88 ) - This match will be foreshadowing for latter on. Here Kawada is the youngster, out of his league, latter this role will fall to Kobashi and then Akiyama. Watch as they destroy Kawada's knee. Remember that for the 12/93 tag match, the 6/3/94 match, and many more...

2. Triple Crown: Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (06/05/89) - This match is an interesting harbinger of things to come. It is the longest Triple Crown match up to this point, and serves almost as the bridge between 1980's AJPW style, and the style Misawa and Co. would use in the 90's. Meltzer gave it *****, and it's easily one of the best matches of the 80's.

3. Tiger Mask II (Misawa) & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yatsu and Fuyuki (05/14/90) - Tiger Mask II gets brutalized by Yatsu and Fuyuki, and as a result unmasks as Misawa, and kicks some ass.

4. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (06/08/90) - Misawa upsets Jumbo, in by FAR the biggest win of his career up to this point. One of the greatest matches you'll ever see.

DISC 2: "Partners"

5. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (10/19/90) - One of the best Misawa & Co. vs. Jumbo & Co. six man's.

6. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (04/20/91) - Another amazing six man tag. Probably the most famous of the six man tags from this time. Hell, I could probably fill 10 discs of just Misawa & co. vs. Jumbo & co. six man tag's and they'd all rule.

7. World Tag Titles: Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (07/24/91) - Misawa and Kawada upset the champs and win the tag team titles for the first time.

DISC 3: "The Triple Crown"

8. Triple Crown: © Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Toshiaki Kawada (10/24/91) - Misawa's beaten Jumbo, now Kawada gives it a try. Everyone knows he really has no chance, but he gives it a hell of an effort. Awesome match.

9. Triple Crown: Mitsuharu Misawa vs. © Stan Hansen (8/22/92) - Misawa wins the Triple Crown from Stan Hansen, beginning his two year Triple Crown reign.

10. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (10/21/92) - Misawa makes his first Triple Crown defense against his partner.

Disc 4: "Different Paths"

11. World Tag Titles: © Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (01/30/93) - Misawa and Kawada lose the tag titles to Gordy and Williams. This would be the last time they would hold the tag titles and one of their last matches as a team.

12. Champions Carnival 1993: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/27/93) - A match from the 1993 Champion Carnival. The animosity is not their yet, more of a contest between former partners.

13. Champions Carnival 1993: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (04/13/93) - Former rivals Taue and Kawada show each other mutual respect after going to a draw, foreshadowing their eventual teaming up.

DISC 5: "New Beginings"

14. World Tag Team Titles: Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. © Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (05/26/93) - Kawada and Taue team up and win back the Tag Titles that Kawada and Misawa lost to Gordy and Williams.

15. World Tag Team Title: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. © Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (06/01/93) - The first meeting of these teams, a combination that would become legendary.

16. Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue/Ogawa (07/02/93) - Probably the best six man tag you'll ever see. Everyone plays their roles perfectly, and the crowd goes crazy for the Misawa/Kawada exchanges.

DISC 6: "Enemies"

17. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (07/29/93) - They finally bring the HATE here. Their first singles match with full on animosity.

18. 1993 RWTL: Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (12/03/93) - Best match of the feud up to this point. Remember the 1988 RWTL match here; unlike five years ago, when Kawada's injured knee stopped him from being able to save Tenryu, this time his knee stops him from tagging Taue in. One of the best tag matches you'll ever see.

19. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (4/11/94) - This match would have been part of the actual Champion's Carnival but Misawa was injured... so they still had the match but its non-tourney.

DISC 7: "The Greatest Battle"

20. Champions Carnival 1994 Finals: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Steve Williams (04/16/94) - Kawada wins the 94 carnival and earns another shot at Misawa's titles. Interesting note here: Kawada beats Williams, the man who would go on to end Misawa's TC title reign in October. Great match too.

21. World Tag Team Title: Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (05/21/94) - Kawada's a real prick here, booting Misawa off the apron repeatedly. Just a great vicious tag match, the final 20 min are especially awesome. This match sort of sets the template for the epic tags to come.

22. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (06/03/94) - Pure Art. One of the best matches you'll ever see. You can FEEL Kawada's determination. Watch Misawa go for the knee, watch Kawada bust Misawa's eardrum. Best singles match of the feud, some say all time.

DISC 8: "A Singles Title"

23. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Steve Williams (10/22/94) - Kawada FINALLY wins the Triple Crown. From the man who beat Misawa no less...

24. Champions Carnival 95: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/06/95) - Kawada literally breaks Misawa' face (orbital bone) 30 seconds in... And then they go for another 29:30. That's dedication. Fun match too.

DISC 9: "The Epic Tag"

25. World Tag Team Title: Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (06/09/95) - In my opinion the best men's tag match of all time, with a finish that was literally years in the making. Epic storytelling that will likely never be equaled. You need to see the back-story for it to truly work it's magic. The very definition of a must see match, with some of the greatest selling/visuals/storytelling in a wrestling match that have ever been filmed.

26. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (07/24/95) - Misawa looks to avenge his first pin fall loss to Kawada. Great, great fast paced match. This one doesn't get enough love.

DISC 10: "60 Minute Classic"

27. World Tag Titles: © Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (10/15/95) - Probably the best 60 min tag match you'll ever see. Much better than their 1/24/95 60 min draw. I wanted to pick one of the two 60 min draws for this set, I picked this one. You'll thank me if you've never seen it.

DISC 11: "2 Pinfalls"

28. 1996 RWTL Final: Jun Akiyama & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (12/06/96) - If 6/9/95 is the best men's tag of all time, this is a close second. Kawada once again pins Misawa. A true classic all around.

29. Champions Carnival 1997: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/02/97) - Fun match. Continuing their series of 30 min draws in the carny.

30. Champions Carnival 1997 Finals: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/19/97) - Kawada pins Misawa for the first time in singles competition... In less than 7 minutes...

DISC 12: "The War Continues"

31. Champions Carnival 1997 Finals: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (04/19/97) - ...and then pins Kobashi on the same night, winning him the 97 Carnival and earning him another shot at Misawa's titles.

32. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (06/06/97) - Kawada tries to give Misawa brain damage by dropping him on his head more times than you can count. Awesome match. Some hate the head dropping; I love the viciousness of Kawada in this match. Oh the head dropping...

33. Champions Carnival 1998: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/29/98 ) - Another 30 min draw. This was needed to set up the "no time limit" stipulation for their upcoming dome match.

DISC 13: "Victory at Last"

34. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (05/01/98 ) - In front of a crowd of 58,300 at the Tokyo Dome, six years after their first Triple Crown match, five years since they were partners, and three years since getting his first pin over Misawa, Kawada FINALLY pins Misawa for the Triple Crown on the biggest stage possible.

35. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (01/22/99) - Kawada breaks his arm mere minutes into this match, that doesn't stop him from pinning Misawa again, and hitting the infamous Ganso bomb in the process. Brutal match.

36. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (07/23/99) - Misawa faces Kawada in the final Triple Crown match they will ever have. This match works as a highlight reel for their feud, featuring most of their signature spots, like Kawada kicking the crap out of Misawa in the corner, Misawa standing up after Kawada's shin kicks, a tease of the Ganso bomb, and the Tiger Driver '91.

DISC: 14 "Aftermath"

37. Champions Carnival 2000: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/31/00) - Kawada and Misawa meet for the final time in the champion's carnival. This will be the last match they will ever have against each other in an All Japan ring. Misawa wins, with the first Emerald Frosion he ever hit on Kawada.

38. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (NOAH, 07/18/05) - In front of a huge Tokyo Dome crowd, at NOAH's biggest show ever, and more than 12 years after their rivalry started, Misawa faces Kawada in what will most likely be the final chapter of their feud. Whether the right man won in the end, that's for you, the viewer, to decide...


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Leon Knuckles said:


> I'd rather see Rollins vs Bryan at SS.


If rumors are true...

HHH/Reigns
Lesnar/Cesaro
Bryan/Rollins
Ambrose/Orton

the first two were rumored, HHH/Reigns seems obvious, Lesnar/Cesaro, we'll see, and then hopefully it leads to Bryan/Rollins and Ambrose/Orton. I've been waiting for Ambrose and Orton in a singles match since this program started.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> The best way to watch Misawa/Kawada rivalry is to start from the very beginning, and not just jump into the middle randomly. Kawada's Quest is one of the greatest arcs in pro-graps history.


I agree you should always try and watch matches in order, but how in the hell do you follow story lines when you can't understand a word anyone is saying? I can follow the story they are telling in the ring just fine, but I never have any idea why so and so is fighting so and so. I've said this often, but I don't understand why Japanese wrestling companies don't sell compilations and releases in the States with English dubbed commentary. You wouldn't have to pay much to find some competent guys who could keep the fans assessed of the story lines and calling the action. I'd definitely buy sets of the classic feuds in AJPW/NJPW/NOAH etc with English commentary. They really should have always had duel commentary booths so two teams can call the match live, like how WWE has Spanish and English, Japanese companies should have had English and Japense.


Random note: does anyone else enjoy trying to pick the Yakuza out of the crowd during these mid 90s matches from Japan? It's like where is Waldo but better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having never seen any Danielson/Morishima matches, i stuck the matches on a disc:

1. ROH Mayhattan Mayhem II – 8/25/07 – ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (c).
2. ROH Man Up – 9/15/07 – ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (c).
3. ROH Glory by Honor VI, Night 2 – 11/3/07 – Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima.
4. ROH Rising Above – 12/29/07 – Relaxed Rules: Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson. 
5. ROH Final Battle 2008 – 12/27/08 – Fight Without Honor: Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson.
6. BONUS: ROH Final Battle 2007 - 12/30/07 Bryan Danielson vs Austin Aries vs Takeshi Morishima vs Chris Hero.

Something to watch tomorrow.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

This year's best tv matches please.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I agree you should always try and watch matches in order, but how in the hell do you follow story lines when you can't understand a word anyone is saying? I can follow the story they are telling in the ring just fine, but I never have any idea why so and so is fighting so and so. I've said this often, but I don't understand why Japanese wrestling companies don't sell compilations and releases in the States with English dubbed commentary. You wouldn't have to pay much to find some competent guys who could keep the fans assessed of the story lines and calling the action. I'd definitely buy sets of the classic feuds in AJPW/NJPW/NOAH etc with English commentary. They really should have always had duel commentary booths so two teams can call the match live, like how WWE has Spanish and English, Japanese companies should have had English and Japense.
> 
> 
> Random note: does anyone else enjoy trying to pick the Yakuza out of the crowd during these mid 90s matches from Japan? It's like where is Waldo but better.


Well, I understand very little Japanese, most of the time it's like an alien language to me, but thankfully there are people and sites on the wastelands of internet who left their marks via reviews, Q&As, explanations, etc, people who explained storlines for "us noobs". I always try to read about wrestling as much as possible. For example, lately, I've been trying to study lucha history and tradition, as much as possible, because it's just ridiculously fascinating and different from anything else. Not to mention that Spanish is very easy.

And yes, I'd like the English option on commentary, but let's face it, it'd be very hard to find someone decent these days, just look at the freakin' market, the announcing profession is at its all-time low. But, there were/are guys who do their job solid, IMO:


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Robbie said:


> Never seen that match but KAWADA. Gonna' watch it in a minute


Robbie's gone now - head needed fixing after it *exploded!*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Well, I understand very little Japanese, most of the time it's like an alien language to me, but thankfully there are people and sites on the wastelands of internet who left their marks via reviews, Q&As, explanations, etc, people who explained storlines for "us noobs". I always try to read about wrestling as much as possible. For example, lately, I've been trying to study lucha history and tradition, as much as possible, because it's just ridiculously fascinating and different from anything else. Not to mention that Spanish is very easy.
> 
> And yes, I'd like the English option on commentary, but let's face it, it'd be very hard to find someone decent these days, just look at the freakin' market, the announcing profession is at its all-time low. But, there were/are guys who do their job solid, IMO:



Dude I'm the same way, I like to read any and everything I can get my hands on. I've read 90% of the good books written about the NBA, and probably 95% of the bios that wrestlers have released (I even read Bob Hollys bio for christ sake), along with books like "The Squared Circle" that are just about the sport in general. I'm the kind of nerd who took a history elective in high school when all my buddies used it as a free period to smoke pot (I did my fair share of that as well :side. I'd LOVE to get my hands on a written history of pro wrestling in Japan. I've got a fairly big tome on pro graps history for the United States but I'm always trying to broaden my horizons. I've even got the official WWE Encyclopedia, my girlfriend bought that for me last Christmas, it has a kayfabe bio on the vast majority of wrestlers who ever set foot in a WWE ring, even jobbers. 

All of this is a long winded way of saying the biggest problem I have with getting fully immersed in Puro is because I want to know all the wrestlers back stories, motivations, personalities, and feuds. You can only get so much from watching them bell to bell in the ring.


After spending almost over an hour watching the first 3 Ambrose/Rollins matches thanks to my man MoxleyMox, I'm officially pumped for a future Rollins/Ambrose feud on the main stage. All 3 matches were good, but the third 30 minute IronMan was truly exceptional. Those two just threw down BIG TIME with each other, that's probably a top 5 match for all of 2011 in WWE. Ambrose had some fucking sick matches down in FCW, between his series with Rollins and Regal that's 7 matches in the good-great range. Really really love his Regal matches btw, those should be seen by all.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Don't let back story deter you from watching stuff, at least. I thought that Misawa/Kawada was the best match of all time even before learning everything about it. Last watched it June 3rd 2010, and I made a pact to watch it every June 3rd. I did not watch it a single June 3rd following that day. Hell, I haven't watched it since on any day whatsoever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Don't let back story deter you from watching stuff, at least. I thought that Misawa/Kawada was the best match of all time even before learning everything about it. Last watched it June 3rd 2010, and I made a pact to watch it every June 3rd. I did not watch it a single June 3rd following that day. Hell, I haven't watched it since on any day whatsoever.



Oh it doesn't deter me, every time you or Flux, Chismo, Hayely, WOOLCOCK, or some one in here posts a recommendation I always make a point to check it out and always love it. It's just I'm still in that phase where I don't know nearly enough about all the workers over there, let alone enough to have a favorite, and therefore it's kinda hard to know where to start, you know?

That said, if there was ever a match were commentary isn't necessary to understand what is going on, it's Kawada/Misawa 6/3/94. That's the first Kawada match I ever watched and one of the first 10 or so Puro matches too. Left me dumbstruck, to be honest.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Payback ramble:



Spoiler: stuff



Sheamus vs Cesaro - Great match. Worked it as a high impact sprint which was a good move. I knew they were recently holding back on TV, you could just tell. Especially w/Cesaro. Who felt more on point here than he has in the last few outings on TV. I'm fine w/that. I love how TV constantly gives us gems weekly a good portion of the time, but saving something good for PPV is something that is almost never done any more. Aka basically the rest of this PPV. Cesaro busted out some signature offense like the swing - which feels like forever since we last saw it - and the alpamare water slide again. YES. I was cool w/the finish. I know those who hate Sheamus will be pissy and that's comical. Cesaro doesn't need to be winning this championship. It's better on Sheamus these days. Cesaro got caught in a flash pin while in a great match. I was pleased from top to bottom w/this one.

Rhodes Bros vs Rybaxel - Was happy to see Goldust on PPV, even though this match is done to death. However, they went out there and had their best match to date. Solid sprint & it served a purpose for the current Goldust & Cody storyline. All good to me. I just wish WWE wouldn't book so much stuff on TV so often when they know it'll be on the PPV. Makes you wonder why you bother. Even if the first two matches here have been > what has been shown on TV. My point holds true, nonetheless.

Rusev vs Langston - Sucked. Unfortunately. I dislike Langston, yeah, but it's still big dudes vs each other. I had a little bit of hope. Instead they didn't hit each other much and oversold like they did. That was obnoxious. Rusev took a mad bump on the spear through the apron. But that's nothing special b/c everyone should realize Langston is always going to do that on PPV. Duh. It's all he has. This was lame. At least the right guy went over and it was short.

Bo Dallas vs UC - uhhh  lolWWE

Barrett vs RVD - inoffensive but totally skippable. Still, it is a PPV and this is what we're expected to get? Eh. Barrett wins like we figured and he keeps rolling. We all know mediocrity rules WWE PPVs.

Cena vs Wyatt - Absolute garbage. WWE need to never book a gimmick match for a long, long time. They're an ultimate running joke now. Take something that was great at WM and put gimmicks on it. What does that equal? Flops. The part of the match where it was Wyatts vs Usos and Cena/Bray were nowhere to be found :lmao GOT TO GET THOSE SPOTS IN. Holy cow this was bad 100% of the way. Enough talking about this shit.

Paige vs Alicia Fox - These two have had some nifty sprints prior to this. Then it goes on PPV and nothing happens. Fox acted a little mental, did none of her backbreakers, they had no exhanges w/their previous chemistry. Just random fluff until a submission was put on and it was over. Ok then. Another DUD.

Shield vs Evolution - The DUDs keep coming. What forced nonsense. How boring & bad do these matches have to keep getting. and why are they instant heat killers? Pitiful excuse for a brawl. Everything was so lethargic & tame except for the cane spots on Reigns. I liked that, but the rest was a struggle. The ol "I almost fell asleep" that isn't so much hyperbole but it is truth line goes here. Shield dominates in the end which was feeling kind of obvious when all three were still around while getting killed. These heels and their poor ways of telling stories. Triple H probably thinks he did the best thing ever on this night. It went thirty minutes, the opponents were down and out, but oh no, they can't back to win against the odds. Yawn. This was even worse than the crummy first match. Didn't think it was possible. Evolution has to fuck off now that they've been supremely owned by Shield. The only positive I can think of.

Oh, forgot to mention the Danielson segment. Was fun. Steph in the dress was almost the highlight of the show. It's about on par w/the opener, tbhayley. 8*D



Shit show. Time for RAW.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao I knew he would be the only one to dislike Rusev/Big E. Well, you can't change the close-minded no matter how hard you try.

EDIT: Oh, and remember when you claimed that nobody complains about John Cena winning anymore? :ti

EDIT #2: Michael Cole actually called the Anaconda Vice correctly back in 2005 in a Christian match. And yet he couldn't call it correctly in 2011.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just finished up Payback myself. Took me like two days and I didn't even watch all the matches.

Spoke about Sheamus/Cesaro already. The only good match on a bad show and the clear MOTN. I didn't like the finish but everything up to that point was what I wanted to see from these two. A physical, hard hitting sprint. I just wished it ended in that same physical, hard hitting manner instead of the way it did. 

Rusev/Big E was short and sweet. No complaints there. 

Liked the first few minutes of Cena/Wyatt but it got way too spotty and finisher spammy. I'm not one of those guys who shits on all spotfests because they're spotfests but for fuck's sake you have to sell the damn spots. They were hitting HUGE stuff, barely even bothering to sell during the counts (sometimes not bothering to at all), and running straight into the next big spot. It got to the point where I just really wanted it to end. Bad match.

Evolution/Shield was an odd one for me. Agreed with what SKINS wrote about it. I liked the first half of it just fine, more than the first half of their Extreme Rules match in fact, but the second half fell flat. I could see what they were going for but it wasn't what I wanted to see. I didn't mind the tagging, I didn't even mind Evolution caring more about destroying The Shield than actually winning, but the extended beatdown dragged and took the heat out of the match. Some good stuff in this, some okay stuff, and some bad stuff. Mixed bag. Solid match all things considered but not something I want to watch again.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao I knew he would be the only one to dislike Rusev/Big E. Well, you can't change the close-minded no matter how hard you try.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and remember when you claimed that nobody complains about John Cena winning anymore? :ti


Sad how my opinion means so much to you. :hayden3


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cody has his opinion, he can think whatever the fuck he wants, I Rewatched the LMS match and it went down to **** but it's awesome IMO. 

Tbf Rusev/BigE was really only one spot, still fun though. 


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----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just wanted to stop in and let everyone know I FINALLY got around to rewatching Shield/Wyatts from Elimination Chamber and I definitely raised my rating.  Not sure why I had any gripes with the match to begin with. FIP segment with Rollins is awesome and everything following that is an absolute blast. My only question is where Ambrose disappeared to... oh well. **** 1/2 and my MOTY for right now. Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan and Shield vs. Evolution I are numbers 2 and 3, respectively. 

Also rewatched Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival. Sticking with **** for it. Still doesn't hit me as much as you guys. Leg work didn't play into much of the final minutes and wasn't exactly sold at all from Zayn really. Some good nearfalls and counters towards the end, but they were all kinda predictable for me. Still damn good stuff though. Oh and as I posted in the MOTYC thread, I rewatched Zayn/Breeze from Takeoever and raised my rating to ****. Loved it the 2nd time around.

Won't post my full MOTY list just yet as I still need to watch Cena/Cesaro from RAW and Shield/Wyatts II (RAW) and III (Main Event). Got a lot of catching up to do with TV stuff as well. Probably gonna watch Cena/Orton from RAW in February only because *C2D* likes it so much. (Y)


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

ArnoldTricky said:


> This year's best tv matches please.





ArnoldTricky said:


> This year's best tv matches please.


Pretty much in order off top of my head, meaning I probably forgot a Shield 6 man or two since they are remarkably consistent I run many of them together in my mind: (keep in mind I dont watch NXT and only a ME match if praised very heavily)
*Cena/Cesaro RAW would be my frontrunner *
*Cesaro/Orton SD 
Shield/Wyatts II 
Dbry/Orton first RAW encounter (wasn't a big fan of no DQ)
Dbry/Cesaro SD with the la mystica omaplata crossface finish
Shield/Wyatts ME
Cena/Harper RAW* (the match after their brief, compact SD match which I think is their second overall encounter)
*Bryan/Christian RAW
IC number one contender fatal fourway SD
Rey Mysterio and the Usos/Wyatt family RAW*
*Usos/Harper and Rowan last RAW
Bryan/Cesaro Raw with DQ
Bryan/Del Rio
Ziggler/Cesaro EC qualifier SD (one of the most underrated matches this year)
RA/Rhodes Bro ME
Ziggler/Sandow RAW? (the specifics to this one are hazy I just remember a damn good Ziggler/Sandow match. Think it was RAW
Usos/RA RAW March 17th
*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Sad how my opinion means so much to you. :hayden3


Your opinions are the most amusing on here. Although that second statement isn't even an opinion.



Christian is glorious here. Even more glorious than Rey.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Do I earn more praise when I tell you the ending to RAW last night was a comical turn of events?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

All the parody videos of the RAW ending are hilarious. Especially the Simpsons and the Imogen Heap ones.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Pretty much in order off top of my head, meaning I probably forgot a Shield 6 man or two since they are remarkably consistent I run many of them together in my mind: (keep in mind I dont watch NXT and only a ME match if praised very heavily)
> *Cena/Cesaro RAW would be my frontrunner *
> *Cesaro/Orton SD
> Shield/Wyatts II
> ...


Seriously, to add to this list AJ Lee vs. Natalya from 3/11 Main Event. Watched this on the Network a few days ago. I was highly impressed with how well structured this turned out to be and Nattie's selling throughout was remarkable. One of the best divas matches in the last year for my money.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just saw the Simpsons one. Well that makes me feel a little better.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

List of WWE Matches you people need to watch from 2014 that hardly anyone has seen

CM Punk vs Roman Reigns 1/6 - Great match in my eyes
Matadores/Cara/Msterio vs Real Americans/Rybaxel 1/10 - Fun, fun sprint
John Cena vs Damien Sandow 1/13 - Sandow's best match this year
Show/Mysterio vs Real Americans 1/24 - REAL AMERICANS~
Big E/Usos' vs 3MB 1/29 - So good.
Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler 1/31 - WATCH THIS
Jack Swagger vs Christian 1/31 - Nearly on par with their 2009 encounters.
Sheamus vs Ryback 2/7 - HOSSY
Sheamus/Christian vs Real Americans 2/10 - I miss Real Americans
Wyatt Family vs Sin Cara/Matadores 2/12 - FUN
The Shield vs Cara/Matadores 2/19 - BETTER THAN LAST WEEK
John Cena vs Luke Harper 3/21 - Like 7 minutes, check it
Sami Zayn vs Corey Graves 4/3 - One NXT mention come on
Cesaro vs Jack Swagger 4/25 - REAL AMERICANS CLASH
The Shield vs Oneil/Ryback/Barrett/Del Rio/Sandow 4/25 - Better than it should be
Seth Rollins vs Batista 5/9 - Good

Check these matches out, I was going to do a blog post about this but posting it here was better (but maybe click on the signature I don't know). I'm definitely going to be doing a half way year list at the end of the month.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Payback ramble:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How could ANYONE - let alone you, a hoss fight lover - dislike a match that personifies FUN like that? C'mon now


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I feel like I elaborated on why it sucked.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Just saw the Simpsons one. Well that makes me feel a little better.


Is there a link to that. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thx.

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----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

(Y)

Alright. I think I can use some Kawada right now. He was mentioned a page ago right? Doesn't even matter.


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

I re watched 3 matches from payback and my star ratings went up
Cesaro/Sheamus - ****

Wyatt/Cena - **** 1/4

Shield/Evolution - ****1/2
I guess this a show that some people are either love or hate it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*'Hacksaw' Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer (11.11.1985) (Mid South) *

Full match - Includes aftermath.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> (Y)
> 
> Alright. I think I can use some Kawada right now. He was mentioned a page ago right? Doesn't even matter.



Indeed, it was the 20th Anniversary of his 6/3/94 match vs Misawa so I felt it appropos to post a link. Still one of the most amazing matches I've seen.



The Hitman said:


> *'Hacksaw' Jim Duggan vs Buzz Sawyer (11.11.1985) (Mid South) *
> 
> Full match - Includes aftermath.


Ding ding ding, we have a winner. One of the wildest, craziest, most awesome brawls ever. I can't see the embedded link I'm just assuming that's the No DQ match they had. I fluctuate between that match and Boot Camp Slaughter/Sheik as my favorite brawl ever. Sawyer was a big revelation when I bought that Mid South set. Had never even heard of the dude before then.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Watched Punk/Sheamus from Main Event and it's a damn good match, TV MOTY possibly.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Indeed, it was the 20th Anniversary of his 6/3/94 match vs Misawa so I felt it appropos to post a link. Still one of the most amazing matches I've seen.


I know you asked about the history of Misawa/Kawada. Should ive this a read mate, pretty much tells the story: http://www.ichibanpuroresu.com/kawadamisawa.html


----------



## Coolquip (May 20, 2007)

hag said:


> I love the new direction they seem to be going on these DVD sets. With each one that comes out, they are becoming less and less kayfabe and giving the fan a real unique look at the business like we have never seen before.


If that Owen Hart story happens, I'll eat my hat. Other than Benoit, I can't think of anything more taboo in WWE. Honestly, I don't want to see it. I know they'll just finger-point and blame people for a man's death, and I don't need to see that.

A Cesaro set would be sweet as would be a Danielson set, especially the documentary.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> 1. ROH Mayhattan Mayhem II – 8/25/07 – ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (c).
> 2. ROH Man Up – 9/15/07 – ROH World Championship: Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima (c).
> 3. ROH Glory by Honor VI, Night 2 – 11/3/07 – Bryan Danielson vs. Takeshi Morishima.
> 4. ROH Rising Above – 12/29/07 – Relaxed Rules: Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson.
> 5. ROH Final Battle 2008 – 12/27/08 – Fight Without Honor: Takeshi Morishima vs. Bryan Danielson.


Watched the series today. What a fucking story, the final match was something else and a perfect way to end the series. Highly recommended.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I feel like I elaborated on why it sucked.


Which I personally disagreed with - it's not like they oversold it that much, just about enough to make their "monster fists" somewhat believable; and Big E's Spear was done many times, but it was always impressive anyway, let alone when a guy like Rusev takes the bump. Plus, for the fact alone that it was Big E/Rusev, it was far more likeable and fun than it ever had the right to be.

But whatever. If you thought it sucked, more power to you I guess  _(but to this day I wonder just how high your standards are though )_


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I must have one of the lowest standards in this thread :lmao I quite enjoyed Payback :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

By the way, not sure if I have posted this, but here's my top 15 matches of the year thus far:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Ding ding ding, we have a winner. One of the wildest, craziest, most awesome brawls ever. I can't see the embedded link I'm just assuming that's the No DQ match they had. I fluctuate between that match and Boot Camp Slaughter/Sheik as my favorite brawl ever. Sawyer was a big revelation when I bought that Mid South set. Had never even heard of the dude before then.


Was the bit where Duggan told the ref to "Get the fuck away from me" inlcuded on the WWE Set?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Was the bit where Duggan told the ref to "Get the fuck away from me" inlcuded on the WWE Set?



You know, I don't remember exactly but it wouldn't surprise me if it was edited. WWE tried to ruin the Flair/Hunter cage match by editing Flairs cursing out, but I still have a saved unedited copy. People might think I'm being ridiculous by saying that editing out a few curse words can ruin a match, but you really need to see what I'm talking about to understand. It's when Hunter has Flair locked in the Figure Four, blood is pouring down Naitchs face, and he's screaming "JESUS CHRIST, OH MY GOD, OH JESUS" and then all the sudden he gets this wild, amazing look in his eye and starts swinging and clawing at Hunters face yelling "ILL FUCKING KILL YOU YOU MOTHERFUCKER, ILL FUCKING KILL YOU". I just got goosebumps typing that. It's the most enduring, and lasting image from what I think is one of the top 2-3 cage matches ever. And WWE ruined it by editing Flair. That one moment takes that match from GREAT to ALL TIME GREAT. We were talking about how for a match to transcend greatness and become an all time classic, it needs one of those spine tingling moments where you think to yourself "this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen". So for WWE to edit that really, really bothered me. It's not a completely different match with the edit, but it's surely not the same.

Old Man Flair was as good at selling as I've ever seen from any human being. He would just do and say things that no other wrestler would even dream of, let alone pull off in the ring. Old man Flair and Old Man Funk are the two guys that immediately come to mind for me as the greatest at selling of all time. They made it so easy to suspend your disbelief and allow yourself to become convinced that they were truly in agony and that the stakes were as high as they can get.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> You know, I don't remember exactly but it wouldn't surprise me if it was edited. WWE tried to ruin the Flair/Hunter cage match by editing Flairs cursing out, but I still have a saved unedited copy. People might think I'm being ridiculous by saying that editing out a few curse words can ruin a match, but you really need to see what I'm talking about to understand. It's when Hunter has Flair locked in the Figure Four, blood is pouring down Naitchs face, and he's screaming "JESUS CHRIST, OH MY GOD, OH JESUS" and then all the sudden he gets this wild, amazing look in his eye and starts swinging and clawing at Hunters face yelling "ILL FUCKING KILL YOU YOU MOTHERFUCKER, ILL FUCKING KILL YOU". I just got goosebumps typing that. It's the most enduring, and lasting image from what I think is one of the top 2-3 cage matches ever. And WWE ruined it by editing Flair. That one moment takes that match from GREAT to ALL TIME GREAT. We were talking about how for a match to transcend greatness and become an all time classic, it needs one of those spine tingling moments where you think to yourself "this is one of the greatest things I've ever seen". So for WWE to edit that really, really bothered me. It's not a completely different match with the edit, but it's surely not the same.
> 
> Old Man Flair was as good at selling as I've ever seen from any human being. He would just do and say things that no other wrestler would even dream of, let alone pull off in the ring. Old man Flair and Old Man Funk are the two guys that immediately come to mind for me as the greatest at selling of all time. They made it so easy to suspend your disbelief and allow yourself to become convinced that they were truly in agony and that the stakes were as high as they can get.


Didnt know that about that Flair/HHH match. I do have the live version of Taboo Tuesday 2005, so ill have to watch that next time, thanks.

Another thing about the Duggan match, at the end when they are brawling in the back, Duggan screams "Kiss my fucking ass". WWE probably edited that too.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Flair cussing in that cage match is a thing of beauty. I hate watching the edited versions because it adds to the match hearing him yelling out profanity unfiltered and without a care.

_(random note: just saw on facebook that WWE are looking for "street members" in Sweden and showed an application form. Looks like it's my chance. )_


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> I must have one of the lowest standards in this thread :lmao I quite enjoyed Payback :lol


I quite enjoyed the show too, bar the main event. I don't thing it's because of low standards at all, just different views on things. And maybe we don't take wrestling as seriously as others in here and also don't over-analyze every little detail to prevent ourselves from enjoying a match either. Curious to those who thought the whole show was crap were feeling watching through the whole thing, because I enjoyed it a good bit and this is coming from someone who barely posts on wrestling and hardly watches the weekly shows anymore because of lack of interest in the product. But maybe that's the reason to why I enjoyed it a bit because I'm not hardcore following the product right now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sawyer/Duggan should be required viewing here. That match convinced me that both guys were not just old fools and really were incredible talents. Among the best pure brawls I've seen. Apparently Sawyer and Tommy Rich technically had the first ever hell in a cell match too. He also scammed The Undertaker. I haven't seen enough of his brother Brett Sawyer, but the folks at prowrestlingonly laud him among the Lawlers and Windhams of the world.




MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Watched Punk/Sheamus from Main Event and it's a damn good match, TV MOTY possibly.


Awesome match, but the scary part is that it may not even make Punk's top 20 that year. Dude was straight piff, even on TV. Off the top of my head, I know I prefer three Punk/Bryan TV matches, both extended Mark Henry matches, and a match against Kane on Smackdown over it. There's also a Punk/Sheamus vs. Jericho/Bryan tag match worth looking out for.



Choke2Death said:


> _(random note: just saw on facebook that WWE are looking for "street members" in Sweden and showed an application form. Looks like it's my chance. )_


What the hell is a street member :lol? How big is Yung Lean over in Sweden? To us Chicagoans, he's the biggest name you guys have.

Summerslam 2005 was a lot more fun than I remember it being. If I used the Cal Scale, it wouldn't score too well, but there was this composite feeling that makes the show feel special. Edge/Hardy and Orton/Undertaker are two of my favorite matches from that year. And Batista/JBL really surprised me. Jericho/Cena went down, but it was still a fun sprint. Jordan/Benoit is better than Meng/Big Show. Eddie/Rey was ok, but weaker than their other matches. And Hogan/Michaels was worse than terrible :lmao.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Apparently something about doing surveys and promotional work for the company. They would probably hire me since the company interest in here is pretty low and not many will apply.

SummerSlam 2005 is just fun front to back. Orton/Undertaker is MOTN but everything else on that show is at the very least enjoyable. Always loved Cena/Jericho and don't see a rewatch changing that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> Apparently something about doing surveys and promotional work for the company. They would probably hire me since the company interest in here is pretty low and not many will apply.


Just don't mention Benoit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Apparently something about doing surveys and promotional work for the company. They would probably hire me since the company interest in here is pretty low and not many will apply.
> 
> SummerSlam 2005 is just fun front to back. Orton/Undertaker is MOTN but everything else on that show is at the very least enjoyable. Always loved Cena/Jericho and don't see a rewatch changing that.



That show is EASILY one of the best SS ever. I absolutely loved it, it had something for everyone. Edge/Hardy is one of the greatest squashes ever, Taker/Orton is great, Eddie/Rey is great, HBK/Hogan is great, and Cena/Jericho is great and my personal MotN. That's 5 matches in the really good-great range, and one hell of a show overall.


----------



## Fletcher Reede (Jun 4, 2014)

HBK vs Hulk is the funnest match I have ever seen.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I don't know if anyone has seen this but I'm shocked. I honestly thought the WWE just decided to get rid of him. I didn't know all this shit went on with the guy. His short stint in the WWE was awesome.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> There's literally nothing left for Orton to do atm other than being wasted in the midcard with "DA YUNG GUYZ". At the risk of sounding like a broken record, only noteworthy feud for him is with Brock at this point. He's been in the title picture for too long to return to it, he's already wrestled every top guy repeatedly and you can say the same for most midcard guys during his directionless face run in 2012. He might as well take a break since he's been a workhorse for the past year ever since returning to the main event and could use some rest when there's nothing for him to do at the show.


About a month or two ago, Keller mentioned that Orton was saying behind the scenes that he's not really high on having a match with Lesnar. Orton said that he's not sure their styles mesh, and he also wondered about the physicality of the match (I assume because of his shoulder injuries).

Keller said this as an aside to another conversation. Keller himself was saying that he thought Orton could be a good potential opponent for Brock, but then he said that. 

This may be why they're holding off on that. OTOH, I'd assume that Orton would like the paycheck that comes with fighting Brock, but maybe with the network now, that's rendered kind of moot. Especially since Orton has been in the main event or close to the main event for awhile now. Maybe if he drops down the card he'll have a change of mind. I'm sure he was satisfied with where he was at at the time. 


Not sure where it would fit in now 'cause it seems obvious they're gonna do Cesaro and Bryan eventually, and that leaves only one more spot. If even that, 'cause I'm not sure if Brock's already fulfilled one match for the year or not. I have a feeling they have Reigns in mind for that third match, to put him over hugely.

Will be interesting to see if Brock re-signs after this last year of his contract. He's young enough and he'll want the money, but I can't see Vince offering him what he offered him in the past. And Brock's stubborn. Someone did a breakdown of Brock's PPV impact, and it doesn't seem worth $5 million. Then again, you can't always measure stuff that way. Just the mainstream attention Vince garnered alone, may be enough for Vince to feel it's worthwhile. Vince loves mainstream publicity.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Well, that sucks to hear. To see that Orton himself is the reason it's not happening... 

I guess I can't blame WWE anymore because they probably had it in the plans for EC and then Randal pussied out. Hopefully they find a way to make it happen anyways.

Plus it's good to see you're starting to like Sheamus.



The Hitman said:


> Just don't mention Benoit.


Sure, as long as they agree to send me a couple of the rare Benoit t-shirts locked in the basement. I want my TOOTHLESS AGGRESSION and 4REAL t-shirts dammit! 

Also correction: it's actually "street team".



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That show is EASILY one of the best SS ever. I absolutely loved it, it had something for everyone. Edge/Hardy is one of the greatest squashes ever, Taker/Orton is great, Eddie/Rey is great, HBK/Hogan is great, and Cena/Jericho is great and my personal MotN. That's 5 matches in the really good-great range, and one hell of a show overall.


Agreed completely. The rest of the card is also good. Benoit/Jordan is always funny to watch, Batista/JBL is better than it had any right being and even Angle/Eugene wasn't bad. Although they should've done Angle vs Flair instead of putting him against an irrelevant Eugene one year past his peak.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Popped in, saw Misawa/Kawada, Sawyer/Duggan and Ishikawa/Ikeda plugged. Props.


I hope I come back in one month and Fujiwara/Super Tiger, Volk Han/Tamura and Grey/Myers are being pimped.


----------



## Fletcher Reede (Jun 4, 2014)

Brock vs Sheamus is a much better possibility.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Volk Han/Tamura being pimped.


Pimped that a couple of weeks ago, even uploaded two of their matches on my DM Channel.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Popped in, saw Misawa/Kawada, Sawyer/Duggan and Ishikawa/Ikeda plugged. Props.
> 
> 
> I hope I come back in one month and Fujiwara/Super Tiger, Volk Han/Tamura and Grey/Myers are being pimped.


Volk Han/Tamura was pimped a couple weeks ago. Next up are Brett Sawyer and Sangre Chicana.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Duggan might be the most under-appreciated wrestler ever. WWF persona and all will be his legacy for obvious reasons but he's one of the best territory wrestlers of the 80's imo. Big shame that WWF picked him as early as they did and his career turned into something totally different. He was the type of guy you could happily build a whole territory around.*


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

sharkboy22 said:


> I don't know if anyone has seen this but I'm shocked. I honestly thought the WWE just decided to get rid of him. I didn't know all this shit went on with the guy. His short stint in the WWE was awesome.


You should listen to the podcast he did with Colt Cabana. He talked about his past problems and its' free.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Indeed, it was the 20th Anniversary of his 6/3/94 match vs Misawa so I felt it appropos to post a link. Still one of the most amazing matches I've seen.


Might as well give it a watch right now if that's the case. Maybe I'll actually think it's great to fall in line w/everyone else in the world. b/c I've never actually cared for it. Hurts me when Kawada is in the mix and I say that.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Fletcher Reede said:


> Brock vs Sheamus is a much better possibility.


:mark: :mark: :mark:

I never thought of this combination before but it's so much :mark:

Just imagine Sheamus giving Brock a Brogue Kick, Brock no selling it and not giving a fuck, and then hitting Sheamus with a F-5 :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Brock/Sheamus is one of three potential Lesnar matches I really want to see. The other two are Lesnar/Bryan and Lesnar/Cesaro. Wouldn't say no to a rematch with Cena either.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Brock/Sheamus is one of three potential Lesnar matches I really want to see. The other two are Lesnar/Bryan and Lesnar/Cesaro. Wouldn't say no to a rematch with Cena either.



Lesnar/Rollins would rock the world, but only if it was in another year or so, after Rollins has been substantially built up.

I'm pissed we never got a real deal Henry/Lesnar match. They just had Lesnar squash him and it wasn't even a match. They should have just given them 10 minutes on Raw to throw down.

Then there is Lesnar/Zayn. If Zayn were built up enough, that has some SERIOUS potential to be an all time GREAT match. I'm imagining Zayns selling for a Lesnar beat down and it's marvelous.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Might as well give it a watch right now if that's the case. Maybe I'll actually think it's great to fall in line w/everyone else in the world. b/c I've never actually cared for it. Hurts me when Kawada is in the mix and I say that.



I don't know a ton about either guy, but one thing that has stuck with me in the 4-5 Kawada matches I've seen is how great he is at doing subtle heelish things. Like the repeated kicks and chops. I can only assume he was mostly a baby face, as fans chant his name in most the matches, but he's great when he just loses his temper and decides to beat the fuck out of Misawa or Kobashi. I saw one tag where I swear he damn near crippled poor Kenta Kobashi.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Watched Punk/Sheamus from Main Event and it's a damn good match, TV MOTY possibly.


Is that match from 2012? If it is I place Punk's match with Mark Henry the night after WrestleMania 28 well above it. Punk/Sheamus is still a solid start at the time to the new weekly show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't know a ton about either guy, but one thing that has stuck with me in the 4-5 Kawada matches I've seen is how great he is at doing subtle heelish things. Like the repeated kicks and chops. I can only assume he was mostly a baby face, as fans chant his name in most the matches, but he's great when he just loses his temper and decides to beat the fuck out of Misawa or Kobashi. I saw one tag where I swear he damn near crippled poor Kenta Kobashi.


It's never been too much about heel or face for things over there. Mostly playing off of awesome _"i'm just gonna be a total prick & beat the snot out of you, tonight"_ kind of manliness. Tenryu built his entire career off of that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Real swanky lookin match is gonna kick off Smackdown this week:



Spoiler: swank



Rollins vs. Ziggler


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Which I personally disagreed with - it's not like they oversold it that much, just about enough to make their "monster fists" somewhat believable;


It was a theatrical match, of course there was overselling. At least the spots in it matched the "feel" of it - throwing steps, smashing barricades to the point the padding comes off the iron, multiple finishers, whatnot - I'd rather that than a brawl for the type of match it was, especially given the stip. 



> and Big E's Spear was done many times, but it was always impressive anyway, let alone when a guy like Rusev takes the bump. Plus, for the fact alone that it was Big E/Rusev, it was far more likeable and fun than it ever had the right to be.


Everyone repeats moves; it's an irrational gripe. It's awfully purdy spear too (and fairly dangerous) 



> But whatever. If you thought it sucked, more power to you I guess  _(but to this day I wonder just how high your standards are though )_


It's not about high/low standards - it's about being "cool." My gut says half the people who rated it poorly were upset with the booking and have latched onto any imperfection to justify their dissatisfaction with Wyatt losing 2/3 of the matches, and needing a lot of help in his win. I agree with the last part, but it's separate from the match quality.

My evidence for this? "Too many 10 counts" Yeah? Every LMS match has those - it's the most common complaint/criticism w/this stip, and this one only had one that I remember as being particularly bad (10 count; apron spot; 10 count). Then there was "not enough selling during 10 counts." That makes no sense. _By definition_, you're selling while being issued a standing 10 count. Then of course, the contradictory nature of overselling/not selling enough/too many standing 10 counts - it's irrational and inconsistent criticism.

The match is in no way perfect, but it was damn exciting. If you were sitting with your arms crossed, or were waiting for Wyatt to beat Cena clean, it's no wonder you didn't like it. Put the fantasy booking to bed.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JustJoel said:


> It was a theatrical match, of course there was overselling. At least the spots in it matched the "feel" of it - throwing steps, smashing barricades to the point the padding comes off the iron, multiple finishers, whatnot - I'd rather that than a brawl for the type of match it was, especially given the stip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you quoting me and debating about the same match as I was? Because on those parts I was all the way through discussing Big E/Rusev and not Cena/Wyatt LMS, not sure if you got that 

Though if I were to discuss that, I'd be sure the reason many people disliked it was not Wyatt losing, but rather the overabundant non-selling for the sake of yet another big spot. I would say that'd be mostly on the ref's fault, maybe if he counted a little more slowly they'd sell better. But that's not the point. Regardless, there are many people in this thread that just don't like that kind of match. I'm in middle ground towards that match tbh. Plus, ANYTHING would be better than the Extreme Rules disaster between those two.

EDIT: That makes me think - are there any Cena/Wyatt LMS style matches people here actually like? As in those sick spotfests they usually do (not counting TLC/MITB matches).


----------



## TJQ (Sep 1, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Real swanky lookin match is gonna kick off Smackdown this week:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh shit, I'm actually really excited for that. I now have a reason to at least watch some of SD this week.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Are you quoting me and debating about the same match as I was? Because on those parts I was all the way through discussing Big E/Rusev and not Cena/Wyatt LMS, not sure if you got that
> 
> Though if I were to discuss that, I'd be sure the reason many people disliked it was not Wyatt losing, but rather the overabundant non-selling for the sake of yet another big spot. I would say that'd be mostly on the ref's fault, maybe if he counted a little more slowly they'd sell better. But that's not the point. Regardless, there are many people in this thread that just don't like that kind of match. I'm in middle ground towards that match tbh. Plus, ANYTHING would be better than the Extreme Rules disaster between those two.
> 
> EDIT: That makes me think - are there any Cena/Wyatt LMS style matches people here actually like? As in those sick spotfests they usually do (not counting TLC/MITB matches).


Ah, thought you were going back and forth between the two. My bad.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> It was a theatrical match, of course there was overselling. At least the spots in it matched the "feel" of it - throwing steps, smashing barricades to the point the padding comes off the iron, multiple finishers, whatnot - I'd rather that than a brawl for the type of match it was, especially given the stip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The lack of selling we are complaining about is that it just appeared that both guys were trading moves. It would be Bray doing a big spot, Cena down for a 10 count. Then Cena would pop up at 9, hit a big move on Bray, then Bray would be down for a 8 count. Rinse. Repeat. Ad nauseum. And that's not true about all LMS spamming 10 counts. I urge you to go watch Foley/Rocky Valentines Day Massacre, Jericho/Hunter Fully Loaded, or Batista/Taker Backlash and tell me they spam the 10 count the same way Cena/Bray and Cena/Edge BL 09' did. They aren't even close to being the same. Hell even Cena/Batista and Cena/Umaga weren't nearly as bad spamming the 10 count and then no selling every thing that was done before said 10 count. 

To me, selling is such an integral part of wrestling. I'm not a stickler for it like my man Funnyfaces is, but a match completely devoid of coherent selling and story telling like Bray/Cena is, stops being a wrestling match and devolves into an exhibition of spots.

Take some time out, watch Jericho/Hunter Fully Loaded 2000, witness how AWESOME Jericho sells everything, and you will see what I and many others are talking about.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wouldn't say Cena/Wyatt LMS was completely devoid of storytelling at all. Selling is one thing, storytelling is another. Cena/Wyatt did have storytelling, few but it did - the Wyatts attacking Cena and Usos being the cavalry; Wyatt breaking up a count by doing the spiderwalk thing; Wyatt... being Wyatt in short term pretty much. Wyatt was basically the storyteller of the match.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok, so I just started Sheamus/Punk from Main Event and I see Sheamus coming out with the WHC. I can't for the life of me recall Sheamus being WHC so late into the year. Who did he lose it too?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I liked the match, idk why but I did, was it as good as some are saying? No, but is it worthy of 4 stars? imo yes just because I had fucking fun watching it, the selling was terrible but sometimes I just overlook poor selling and when it boils down to it, I enjoyed watching the match, what is a better way of judging?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh I think there are many times where overlooking selling and structure is actually not bad. Wrestling is #1 storytelling (it is basically a theater play after all when you look at it), #2 entertainment. I'm pretty sure the reason why so many "outsiders" rank a lot of the matches that here get bad flack very highly is simply because of how straight up entertaining they are. Look at Edge/Cena TLC for a perfect example. And well, I gotta be honest - usually the best bets to introduce someone to wrestling are those spotfest matches that one just goes so entertained. How much of a crime is it to overlook selling sometimes and just embrace wrestling as nothing more than a live form of entertainment and not a "sport" as I'm sure some may see it? Not that I wouldn't show a masterful work of storytelling first instead (I know I would - Punk/Lesnar, Shield/Wyatts I or Cesaro/Zayn IV for perfect and recent examples), but it's not always the case.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> Pimped that a couple of weeks ago, even uploaded two of their matches on my DM Channel.


(Y)



funnyfaces1 said:


> Volk Han/Tamura was pimped a couple weeks ago. Next up are Brett Sawyer and Sangre Chicana.


Chicana is absolutely incredible and up there with Lawler, Duggan, Funk and Hansen in terms of the best brawlers ever. Looks like a heroin addict who just gets up out of a ditch every morning, saunters into a ring, fights a motherfucker in some run down Tijuana arena and then moves to the next town to repeat the process. Nutty bumper, great puncher, wonderful timing and build to the big spots in a match and a truly captivating performer. Even when he's a second at ringside you're just intrinsically drawn to everything he does.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Mega 100 match Shield pack just put up on XWT :mark: :mark:. Includes singles, doubles and triples. Talk about perfect timing . Once I get this stupid presentation finished on Friday I'm free to binge away. I still haven't seen Cena/Wyatt yet and people are still talking about it. WHAT IS THIS MATCH? I must see it :lol.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw a request for this a while back:

*Arn Anderson vs Dustin Rhodes (WCW Saturday Night 01.04.1992)*

x1yjs3g

Very good match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> (Y)
> 
> 
> 
> Chicana is absolutely incredible and up there with *Foley, Vader, Austin*, Lawler, Duggan, Funk and Hansen in terms of the best brawlers ever. Looks like a heroin addict who just gets up out of a ditch every morning, saunters into a ring, fights a motherfucker in some run down Tijuana arena and then moves to the next town to repeat the process. Nutty bumper, great puncher, wonderful timing and build to the big spots in a match and a truly captivating performer. Even when he's a second at ringside you're just intrinsically drawn to everything he does.


Fixed 

Say what you want, but IMO Foley, Vader and Austin are all in that elite, best of the best class with those other guys for greatest brawlers ever. I'd say Bruiser Brody too but that's entirely off reputation as I haven't seen nearly enough of his work to warrant such acclaim.

I'm in need of a match to watch. Anyone got any recommendations? I'm drawing all sorts of blanks here. I post my opinions enough, y'all should know what I like


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Mega 100 match Shield pack just put up on XWT :mark: :mark:. Includes singles, doubles and triples. Talk about perfect timing . Once I get this stupid presentation finished on Friday I'm free to binge away. I still haven't seen Cena/Wyatt yet and people are still talking about it. WHAT IS THIS MATCH? I must see it :lol.


2 things:

1) I wish I cared about torrents because of THE SHIELD 
2) Cena/Wyatt is one of the most polarizing matches I've ever seen for a reason - you really have to watch it to know for yourself what you think of it


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who wouldn't love a Mexican wrestler who looks like a heroin addict and saunters about?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

ATF said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1) I wish I cared about torrents because of THE SHIELD
> 2) Cena/Wyatt is one of the most polarizing matches I've ever seen for a reason - you really have to watch it to know for yourself what you think of it


After Friday I'm through with University for the most part so hopefully over the weekend I'll be able to catch it. It's funny though, the opinions on here are so split and then my sister, who hates Cena btw, said it was possibly her favourite Cena match ever. Now she's only 15, but still lol. Cena is usually an immediate fast forward for her but she's so into Bray that she watched the match and ended up loving it. I found that strange since she usually hates every Cena match. When I heard that and after all the opinions online I'm probably even more excited to watch this than I ever was to begin with.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Fixed
> 
> Say what you want, but IMO Foley, Vader and Austin are all in that elite, best of the best class with those other guys for greatest brawlers ever. I'd say Bruiser Brody too but that's entirely off reputation as I haven't seen nearly enough of his work to warrant such acclaim.
> 
> I'm in need of a match to watch. Anyone got any recommendations? I'm drawing all sorts of blanks here. I post my opinions enough, y'all should know what I like


Definitely think those three are a notch below the ones I mentioned, and I think Vader is better. Foley is an absolute nutty bumper, but I definitely don't think he has the offence to contend with the ones I mentioned. Most brawls of his to work require him to be the punching bag and lunatic bumper, rather than him in control, whereas the ones I mentioned have the diversity. Austin threw some shitty punches in his time and I don't think he's too great a 'brawler'. I much consider his strength to be character work and facial expressions which allow him to convey and sell his developing emotions in a match so well and control crowds expertly. I also hate the Attitude Era style of brawling though.

Brody from what I've seen is definitely below the better brawlers. Has a tremendous look to him which makes him look psychotic, but I don't think of him as close to some of the better brawlers.

Recommendation - Midnight Express vs Fantastics, 4/26/88. It's on Dailymotion.

Probably my pick for best US tag of all time.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Who wouldn't love a Mexican wrestler who looks like a heroin addict and saunters about?


You probably because you are quite often THE DIRT WORST.

Apart from Parks & Rec, Venture Bros and KAWADA love


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Match sucks, there isnt any way around it :lol hilarious that its the one match being discussed so much in here recently


I just wanted to post, to see my sig


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

It figures Ziggler would be the HHH in any cosplay of DX, aka the less talented individual in the duo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Recommendation - Midnight Express vs Fantastics, 4/26/88. It's on Dailymotion.
> 
> Probably my pick for best US tag of all time.


x1cvien

No need to thank me.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lmao Ziggler. Quit being a whiny bitch, grow a bigger nose and stop being a mong. Maybe then you'll stand a chance. pretty mark sig tho


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm in need of a match to watch. Anyone got any recommendations? I'm drawing all sorts of blanks here. I post my opinions enough, y'all should know what I like







:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> It figures Ziggler would be the HHH in any cosplay of DX, aka the less talented individual in the duo.





Starbuck said:


> :lmao Ziggler. Quit being a whiny bitch, grow a bigger nose and stop being a mong. Maybe then you'll stand a chance. pretty mark sig tho


:lol touche, this must be a thing at house shows w/ him as I've found a DX cosplay rendition w/ Emma instead of Rae. Just the whole 'rae doing the GOAT's pose" thing is a turn on 

I'm making my way through your Danielson recs, finished the low ki match yesterday, but kind of in a wrestling slump atm


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I liked the match, idk why but I did, was it as good as some are saying? No, but is it worthy of 4 stars? imo yes just because I had fucking fun watching it, the selling was terrible but sometimes I just overlook poor selling and when it boils down to it, I enjoyed watching the match, what is a better way of judging?


I like to see posts like this. Personally the faults I picked up on while watching prevented me from enjoying it therefore I didn't like it and thought it was bad. If you were able to overlook that stuff and enjoy it then I got no problem with you calling it a good match. 

That said some people still need to understand that there's a difference between nitpicking and disliking something. I've seen posts in this thread along the lines of "of course you guys in here are hating on Cena/Wyatt and calling Sheamus/Cesaro MOTN, always trying to be different blah blah blah." Obviously people view, appreciate and enjoy wrestling in different ways. Cena/Wyatt did some shit that I couldn't stand, couldn't ignore and hence couldn't enjoy the match. That's not nitpicking or trying to be different.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Chismo said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark:


This is an acceptable alternative however. Incredible match.



NAITCH said:


> I'm making my way through your Danielson recs, finished the low ki match yesterday, but kind of in a wrestling slump atm


Ohh nice. I realised afterwards you might have a job tracking down the Low Ki match (assuming it was the JAPW '02 Submission match), but good stuff.

If Cactus_Jack wants a real out of the blue recommendation I have the perfect match for him. It's 30 minutes long but I'll stake my reputation that it'll be the best 30 minutes you see from two guys you will never have heard of.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Definitely think those three are a notch below the ones I mentioned, and I think Vader is better. Foley is an absolute nutty bumper, but I definitely don't think he has the offence to contend with the ones I mentioned. Most brawls of his to work require him to be the punching bag and lunatic bumper, rather than him in control, whereas the ones I mentioned have the diversity. Austin threw some shitty punches in his time and I don't think he's too great a 'brawler'. I much consider his strength to be character work and facial expressions which allow him to convey and sell his developing emotions in a match so well and control crowds expertly. I also hate the Attitude Era style of brawling though.
> 
> Brody from what I've seen is definitely below the better brawlers. Has a tremendous look to him which makes him look psychotic, but I don't think of him as close to some of the better brawlers.
> 
> ...


I guess it comes down to what you are looking for in your brawls. Funk is undeniably a strong #1 for best brawler ever. He does EVERYTHING at a level that's just above the rest. However, quality of the punches thrown generally isn't the first, second, or even third on my list of important things for a brawl to be great. What counts most to me is first and foremost, the heat or the intensity. A heated issue between two opponents in a blood feud is the first thing I need. Second, it's character. That's why Austin gets up there for me. Very few ever achieved the level of full blown psychopath that he got to in 2001. He looked like he had genuinely lost his fucking mind and was out to maim people. That's an admirable quality for a great brawler. It's funny cause I totally agree Austin's punches can look like shit at times, but he's always had a reputation from guys that worked with him as a dude that would really lay his shit in stiff in the big matches. Just goes to show, stiff doesn't equate to stuff looking good. Austin also had a few really good brawls as a baby face, though not nearly as many.

I'll have to respectfully disagree with your opinion about Foleys offense. Most of Foleys best matches are ones with him in control for good portions, like the Street Fight at the Rumble, or Hardcore match vs Orton, MindGames vs HBK, or even Revenge of the Taker. I've always felt Foley was compelling in control, but that's just my opinion I'm by no means saying I'm right and you're wrong.

One of my favorite brawls WWE has ever done was the Over the Edge match between Foley and Austin, both guys delivered big time in that one. I myself am not a fan of the standard Attitude Era type brawl, but they get it right in this one for sure. 

I threw Vaders name in there just because I've yet to see a brawl featuring the big man that I haven't loved. From his fights with Foley, Hansen, Bossman, Brody, and even the Final Four match, they've all left me thoroughly entertained. Should he be considered among the best ever? Probably not, but I always have a blast watching him do his thing so I tossed his name in there.

Finally, thanks a lot for the recommendation, found it on DM right away and will watch it now. I've seen a midnight/Fantastics match from WCW before, I wanna say it was a Clash or GAB or something. It's shorter but man is it sweet, it has lots of fighting outside the ring with tables, chairs, and tons of Cornette being a slimy little bitch. You might remember what I'm talking about, midnight jumps the Fantastics before the match even starts and then the Fantastics have this otherworldly come back in the end only to ultimately get screwed. 

My pick for best US 2 on 2 tag is Steiner's vs MVC at COTC, Yeah1993 turned me onto it and it instantly became my favorite thing ever. Wonder if this match will change my opinion 

Edit: just finished it an absolutely loved it. I'm too lazy to post all my thoughts but safe to say this is certainly in my top 5-10 for Us 2 on 2 tag matches. The commercial breaks really hurt it though IMO. There are like 5 of them in a 30 minute match. Finish was neat, I didn't realize the Fantastics got a run as the champs. Great stuff sir thanks a lot (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

As for the 30 minute match which I'm sure you'll never watch otherwise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK4ehNvAKeY

Yes it's from the early 60s and it's in France. However it's a tremendous matwork match, which segues beautifully into a physical war, with tremendous strikes and jaw dropping sequences. Absolutely destroys the long heralded that people like Dynamite Kid were the true innovators of wrestling, considering the stuff these guys are doing in 1960. I can promise you it's mind-blowing, full of tricked out matwork that still has purpose and struggle, rather than an exhibition. Old link I watched cut out before the finish, but I'm sure I heard a new link with the finish was uploaded last year, so hopefully this might be it.

If you're going to go out of your comfort zone, THIS is the match to experience.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

I've actually have thought of a really cool idea to write about, but with all these awesome matches getting mentioned when am I even going to have time.

Also, 100 match Shield set?* 100 MATCH SHIELD SET* :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> You probably because you are quite often THE DIRT WORST.
> 
> Apart from Parks & Rec, Venture Bros and KAWADA love


Not my fault I get more entertainment from ants wrestling than Bruce Springsteen's music. 8*D


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Not my fault I get more entertainment from ants wrestling than Bruce Springsteen's music. 8*D


I cheered when Sapphire got massacred. Yeah, I said it. I hope they do an outdoor show in Texas, and Touchdown gets a giant magnifying glass above the ring and melts the Ants in the very centre of the ring. Then Marafuji and KENTA wrestle for 30 minutes, with the caption "Now you know how the children felt Cody" is imprinted on the mat, the apron and the camera.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I have facts to debunk such a ghastly scenario. Except for the KENTA & Marufuji part. There's no getting around that. My kryptonite.

SAPPHIRE LIVED, BTW.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If CHIKARA had parodied 'The Birds' and had Touchdown be followed relentlessly by a flock of birds ominously for months, I would have paid for one of their IPPVs.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They decided to go w/a more emotional finale rather than the Hitchcock route. That's probably why Bubz doesn't watch, either.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> They decided to go w/a more emotional finale rather than the Hitchcock route. That's probably why Bubz doesn't watch, either.


He'll watch that French 60s match I linked on this page. It's in Black & White for a start.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I hope he ignores the wrestling to talk about the great scenic beauty in the background.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*CHIKARA sucks.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2/10.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I hope he ignores the wrestling to talk about the great scenic beauty in the background.


Needs subtitles and some abject social commentary on the plight of the working man, striving for acceptance from an audience of aristocracy.



Seabs said:


> *CHIKARA sucks.*


Ironically enough they might be the sole remaining fanbase who embrace the face/heel mentality, and don't insist on becoming part of the show in a rebellious manner.

* I say this as someone who has watched little of CHIKARA in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure that's the consensus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Needs subtitles and some abject social commentary on the plight of the working man, striving for acceptance from an audience of aristocracy.


Sounds about right.



Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Ironically enough they might be the sole remaining fanbase who embrace the face/heel mentality, and don't insist on becoming part of the show in a rebellious manner.
> 
> * I say this as someone who has watched little of CHIKARA in the grand scheme of things, but I'm sure that's the consensus.


Sounds about right x2.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> As for the 30 minute match which I'm sure you'll never watch otherwise:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK4ehNvAKeY
> 
> ...



I cant believe I'm about to watch a match from France in the 1960s, but I'm oddly a little intrigued. Off the top of my head, the oldest match I've ever watched in full was the 2/3 Falls match between Terry Funk and Jumbo Tsuruta from 1976, which I absolutely loved. I have enjoyed all the matches you've sent my way so I'm gonna show some faith and give it a go.


I did just finish watching Generico/Steen Final Battle 2010. A bit of a coincidence since the talk has been on Cena/Wyatt LMS, but I think this match would have made an awesome Last Man Standing match. It's worked at a slow, methodical pace with lots of high spots, some brutal moves, terrific selling, and awesome story telling. I can see why some don't love this match, but personally I think it's great as an ending to a feud/story and I really got emotionally invested in Generico and seeing him pull out the victory. Steen was just a vile excuse for a human being, he really got the crowd against him which isn't the easiest thing to do at an ROH show. I recommend this for anyone, but it's better if you see the entire feud play out so the violence makes more sense.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Have you ever watched the Final Conflict tag? If you can get around tagging in a cage then you should love it. I haven't seen any of the best US tag matches in years, but from memory that'd top my list. Fantastics/MX WOOLCOCK mentioned would be #2.

I still have not watched the French match. Or like, mostly anything from World of Sports.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Have you ever watched the Final Conflict tag? If you can get around tagging in a cage then you should love it. I haven't seen any of the best US tag matches in years, but from memory that'd top my list. Fantastics/MX WOOLCOCK mentioned would be #2.
> 
> I still have not watched the French match. Or like, mostly anything from World of Sports.


Co-sign the Final Conflict appreciation.

You'd love that Cescra/Cantazaro match, without question. The matwork is a like a hybrid of British technique and fluidity with the gracefulness and innovation of Lucha matwork, but as I alluded to, there's a clear struggle and fight for control, so it's not just merely fluid and hectic counters with flawless transitions, but something that is building. The limbwork is creative and serves a purpose, the selling is superb and they build to the striking expertly, and manage to do the best possible strike exchange spot I've ever seen. It's a perfect escalation from matwork to limbwork to striking, with the right pacing to make each aspect of the match important and tell a story of it's own. There's also a variance of a Ganso Bomb that is absolutely filthy as well.

I think you'd dig some of the best WOS bouts, but this is more Euro/Lucha hybrid than the more pure and succinct style of World of Sport. Feels like a more unrestricted Finlay/Regal match if Finlay was his 20 year old athletic self and Regal was actually blessed with unrivalled athleticism. Some of the counters are truly unique, the match is layered with smart work alongside the truly impressive visual sequences and there's even a Santo headscissors spot that I know you'd love. It's definitely unique and different to the British style, but does have homages to it, but really it's more of an amalgamation of British, Lucha and European wrestling, with some Puro esque nuances as well.

A lot of French 60's stuff has surfaced recently, that I've naturally failed to watch despite hunting down every link and supplementary comments I can find.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Final Conflict Tag rules, but I never in a million years would have thought that Ricky Steamboat of all people would be the weak link in a match. Sgt. Slaughter was glorious. That one spot where he pulls Kernodle out of the way :mark:. But I would easily put at least 20 Steiner tags over it. None of them involving Hase/Sasaki.

But back to Sangre Chicana






Look at those southpaws about two minutes in! Look at Satanico beating the shit out of Chicana until Chicana ties up Satanico's ankle on to the bottom rope. Listen to Satanico's groans, especially after a gutbuster. Look at Satanico choking out Chicana as a response to the first fall. Look at how similar Dean Ambrose's punches look like compared to Chicana. Look at how dirty both men fight. And then that rush in the beginning of the third fall that is reminiscent of something you would see inside an octagon.

I don't know if it's just me, but only problem I have with this is that some of Satanico's punches look awful.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Midnight Express vs Fantastics is unreal. Still would have it behind Midnight vs Southern Boys from GAB '90, of course. Final Conflict tag is one I haven't seen in long enough, but it's totally worth the universal praise. I normally don't care for tagging in a cage, but there are exceptions out there. If the match eventually morphs into the right type of bloody brawl it should be while confined to the steel structure.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I actually have seen that Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernoodle Cage Tag, it's been ages but man is it ever good, I need to find that an give it a watch again. I saw another tag from right after then that was almost as good, it was Steamboat/Youngblood vs Briscoe Brothers I just can't remember the date, it was on a Mid Atlantic set my buddy let me borrow.


Speaking of good cage match tags, there is a great one at Starrcade 1986 between Rock n Roll and the Anderson's. Best match on the whole card by far, double heat segments with Ricky getting bloodied, it's heated, intense, the Anderson's do their classic limb work, just all around awesome stuff.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^ IT HAS BEEN ONE HOUR SINCE YOU SAID YOU WERE GOING TO WATCH CESCA/CANTAZARO. THE MATCH LASTS 32 MINS, BY CONVENTION YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE BY NOW. UNLESS YOU'RE PREPARING AN EXTENSIVE REVIEW IN WHICH YOU ACKNOWLEDGE IT WAS WORTH YOUR TIME. PLEASE AND THANK YOU.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Tbf, I wouldn't touch anything French either.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

In the midst of all the non-generic WWE discussions that have taken place recently, I took it upon myself to try something different and watched *Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness* from Unified. Fair to say it was excellent. Starts off a bit slow but then it just keeps on building until both men start beating the shit out of each other. Liked how Bryan went nuts with the elbows near the end. Don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it since the ending was much more of a surprise to me not knowing the result. ★★★★¼ is probably what I'd give it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Chismo said:


> Tbf, I wouldn't touch anything French either.


Then you're missing out heavily. It's RINGS esque speed, Lucha innovation and gracefulness, British technique and fluidity mixed with absorbing limbwork, great selling and a pace which builds organically from matwork, to limbwork to the striking. It does the best possible puro strike exchange sequence, has uppercuts and forearms that would make Finlay and Regal wince, is truly peerless in terms of an amalgamation of styles, whilst having smart and nuance touches to make it more than a tremendous exhibition. It has struggle, it has purpose, it has unique, creative and mind-blowing sequences, the highspots matter, the strikes are ridiculous but built to and the whole thing flies by in what feels like ten minutes. It has intangibles that connect to the works of Finlay, Regal, Saint, Fujiwara, Fujinami, Panther, Volk Han, Santo, Kawada & Hashimoto.

Basically, watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Nigel from Unified is pretty much perfect. Never been a match w/a better ring post bump.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

What's up with the 3 rope breaks rule? Is it a recurring thing in ROH or was it just a one off? I liked it because it added to the story when Bryan had Nigel in the Cattle Mutilation the last time and he had to reverse it instead of using the ropes. (as well as when Bryan kicked out of that second Rope Cutter)

And the steel post bump was killer, on par with Matt Hardy going face first into it against Edge @ SummerSlam.


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

sharkboy22 said:


> Ok, so I just started Sheamus/Punk from Main Event and I see Sheamus coming out with the WHC. I can't for the life of me recall Sheamus being WHC so late into the year. Who did he lose it too?


Big Show that Fall. I believe he lost the title clean too in one of their better matches together. Best match of Sheamus' reign that year was the fantastic 2/3 Falls Match he had with Daniel Bryan in Chicago in April that year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> What's up with the 3 rope breaks rule? Is it a recurring thing in ROH or was it just a one off? I liked it because it added to the story when Bryan had Nigel in the Cattle Mutilation the last time and he had to reverse it instead of using the ropes. (as well as when Bryan kicked out of that second Rope Cutter)
> 
> And the steel post bump was killer, on par with Matt Hardy going face first into it against Edge @ SummerSlam.


It's a staple that comes w/the Pure wrestling Championship & the specific rules those matches had. Nigel's Pure Championship on the line vs Danielson's World Championship, so by proxy the match fell under the Pure system. Since the strap has been done away since this match _(mistake, if you ask me. Championship was great)_ ROH has occasionally brought back matches worked under "Pure wrestling rules" which followed this format. All other matches are traditional. Pardon back in the day where there where no countouts, but if on the outside long enough a wrestler would be DQ'ed.

Here is some general info on the rules: ROH Pure Championship


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Choke2Death said:


> What's up with the 3 rope breaks rule? Is it a recurring thing in ROH or was it just a one off? I liked it because it added to the story when Bryan had Nigel in the Cattle Mutilation the last time and he had to reverse it instead of using the ropes. (as well as when Bryan kicked out of that second Rope Cutter)
> 
> And the steel post bump was killer, on par with Matt Hardy going face first into it against Edge @ SummerSlam.


That was part of the rules for the ROH Pure Title. Basically the idea was to encourage technical wrestling and provide an escape route for submissions, however you had to be smart with when you gave up a rope break. A recurring theme of Pure Title matches would see one wrestler out of rope breaks, and the opponent exploiting that, e.g Joe using the ropes to aid him in doing a musclebuster because the opponent at the time was out of rope breaks and couldn't have the hold broken.

Unified was the culmination of Danielson's ROH title and Nigel's Pure Title, so both titles were on the line but contested under Pure Title rules. Their first match I believe was under normal ROH title rules, the rematch where Danielson's title was on the line was contested under Pure Title rules for the first time to build Danielson as being the underdog, and the feud ender again saw the Pure Title rules enforced, only with the Pure Title now on the line.

I might be remembering the timespan wrong, but I'm sure it went:

1st Match - Pure Title on the line
2nd Match - ROH Title on the line under Pure Title Rules
3rd Match - ROH & Pure Title on the line, under Pure Title Rules


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> In the midst of all the non-generic WWE discussions that have taken place recently, I took it upon myself to try something different and watched *Bryan Danielson vs Nigel McGuinness* from Unified. Fair to say it was excellent. Starts off a bit slow but then it just keeps on building until both men start beating the shit out of each other. Liked how Bryan went nuts with the elbows near the end. Don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't seen it since the ending was much more of a surprise to me not knowing the result. ★★★★¼ is probably what I'd give it.



If you liked that, then you should love this. In my opinion, and just from what I've seen, it's the best match in ROH History. Luckily, ROH uploaded it to their YT channel so I should be able to post it here without causing problems (mods if this isn't the case please just delete it).

Danielson vs McGuinness 2/23/08 6th Anniversary Show


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It's a staple that comes w/the Pure wrestling Championship & the specific rules those matches had. Nigel's Pure Championship on the line vs Danielson's World Championship, so by proxy the match fell under the Pure system. Since the strap has been done away since this match _(mistake, if you ask me. Championship was great)_ ROH has occasionally brought back matches worked under "Pure wrestling rules" which followed this format. All other matches are traditional. Pardon back in the day where there where no countouts, but if on the outside long enough a wrestler would be DQ'ed.
> 
> Here is some general info on the rules: ROH Pure Championship


I really wish ROH would do some Pure Rules matches more often, but the roster is a bit bare bones I think, not many on the roster aren't well rounded enough to be able to pull off a proper Pure Rules match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Alright, thanks for the info. I might have to check out some more ROH stuff whenever I'm in need of something to watch as I've burned out on all the WWE stuff that I've gone through time and time again.

I tried watching that other Bryan/Nigel match a while back but was impatient and turned it off after a couple of minutes when they were still in the feeling out process. Will get back to it soon. I went to the Unified match because I heard it was the pinnacle of their series and as it is sometimes, you go for the best first.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Danielson/McGuinness 6YA is definitely the best ROH match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> That was part of the rules for the ROH Pure Title. Basically the idea was to encourage technical wrestling and provide an escape route for submissions, however you had to be smart with when you gave up a rope break. A recurring theme of Pure Title matches would see one wrestler out of rope breaks, and the opponent exploiting that, e.g Joe using the ropes to aid him in doing a musclebuster because the opponent at the time was out of rope breaks and couldn't have the hold broken.
> 
> Unified was the culmination of Danielson's ROH title and Nigel's Pure Title, so both titles were on the line but contested under Pure Title rules. Their first match I believe was under normal ROH title rules, the rematch where Danielson's title was on the line was contested under Pure Title rules for the first time to build Danielson as being the underdog, and the feud ender again saw the Pure Title rules enforced, only with the Pure Title now on the line.
> 
> ...


1st from Weekend of Champions Night Two was for both Championships and worked under Pure rules.

2nd was only for the ROH World Championship and don't believe Pure rules were enforced.

3rd is correct b/c it's Unified.

In regards to which is their best match: Unified or 6th Anniversary show are their best. It seems to split the difference between most on which one prefers. I'm still unsure, but it might be the Anniversary only b/c of the turn. Genius. Their 2/3 falls is their underrated and forgotten match. Even by myself. I've been dying to watch it for a long time. Never did get that show. (N)



Tanner1495 said:


> I really wish ROH would do some Pure Rules matches more often, but the roster is a bit bare bones I think, not many on the roster aren't well rounded enough to be able to pull off a proper Pure Rules match


Agreed. w/Christopher Daniels returning he's someone who can certainly pull it off. Giving him someone on par like Adam Cole would be fine by me. I'd really enjoying seeing something like that. Being the nut for Jimmy Jacobs I am, seeing him finally get a chance to showcase his depth would rule too. b/c while a constant in the company he still rarely gets enough chances to do anything super noteworthy in the ring.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

6YA is their best match imo and a great shout for best ROH match. It's not merely the ringwork itself, but the broader implications. For starters, in a time period where ROH struggled to retain authentic face/heel reactions, this match is truly unique. Nigel had been slowly losing support because of injury and postponing title defences. For Bryan to get the match, he agreed to not target Nigel's head, which was recovering from a concussion. Basically, Nigel reacts to a move he perceives as Bryan going back on his word (which he didn't) and proceeds to officially turn heel, besmirching the traditions of the title. From that point on, EVERYONE is begging Danielson to win. In a company where head-drops, somersault hurricanranas and crowd dives could get passable reactions, basic heel mannerisms by Nigel were getting visceral hatred from the fans.

Then you have the back-story, which revovles around Nigel trying to claim superiority over Bryan, stemming from their '06 series and '07 matches. He needs to establish himself as the best, and that Danielson's time has come and gone. So the middle of the match has so much callbacks and character development in Nigel's case, that all of Bryan's comebacks feel desperate and suspenseful, in addition to the crowd being fully invested in everything. No Nigel chants just because it needs to be 50/50. The very thought of Nigel walking out with the title disgusts the New York audience.

Then you have the finish. Oh my christ the finish. Not only does it have a beautiful callback to Bryan's feud with Morishima, but it is the ultimate payoff to the earlier match angle with regard to Nigel's health, which stems from his recurring ill health after winning the title from Morishima, and getting a concussion vs Aries that saw pockets of fans boo him for skipping out on matches. Basically, it's Bryan/Nigel, only with tremendous layered storytelling, an authentic crowd reaction not robbed by fans refusing to embrace the character dynamic, and the best finish to an ROH match ever that's not Joe/Aries from Final Battle '04.

It's incredible.


@ Cody, I think you're correct vis a vis the timeline. I recalled the finish to the first encounter being used to setup the rematch for Danielson's title, and figured that was where they did the ROH title under Pure Title rules twist. Thinking back, I do believe the finish to the first match indicates you're correct since it revolved around the implications of the titles changing hands without a pinfall/submission.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's what I was sure of. Danielson getting counted out in the first match is what led into the second b/c "Nigel won", only Danielson had to defend, and so on, so forth.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah, was it something to the effect of you could lose the Pure title by countout, but not the ROH title? Thus, despite being under pure rules, Danielson's ROH title superceded the rule, thus he loses by countout, retains the title, and Nigel wins by countout, retains his title but doesn't win the ROH title?

I was also going to say, but Cesca/Cantazaro >> Bryan/Nigel, but now I'm resigned to that becoming the next match I praise that no fucker watches because fuck a dumb Welshman with a fascination for obscure 60s French classics.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nailed it. Swanky Gabe booking during those prime ROH years.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Saw that post in caps and knew it was serious business, so i decided to watch CESCA/CANTAZARO.
I really enjoyed it. the holds, the reversals and the strikes were so rough i thought they dubbed in sound effects.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CJack remember yesterday when I said heel/face doesn't matter much and it largely comes down if someone feels like being a surly prick that night? Well, this is probably the best example of it. And yes, it is a top contender for manliest wrestling match ever seen. Watch this and Duggan vs Saywer a page back and see which takes the cake for a fun project.

love how the screenshot for this match is when it was on the brief leg workover part :aryalol


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> :mark: :mark: :mark:


The stars align... VIRUS~!




Jack Evans 187 said:


> You didn't like Sheamus/Cesaro, Rah?


Meddling performance from both, I thought, comparative to what you'd expect as the PPV blowoff. It felt constrained, and hesitant at the beginning, even between the transient spot phases. It had a decent enough growth, leading to that epic German/Neutralizer/White Noise sequence but kinda falls apart after that, again. Finish is 

I guess the time constraint is an issue, as extending the work could have helped, but there's been far better 10-minute and under matches this year for this to get away with such excuses.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can't believe I didn't watch it the first time around (as a matter of fact I didn't care at all about Raw other than the end of The Shield), but Usos/Wyatts was actually quite great, ***1/2 for me. That makes it better than every match in the Payback card except for Sheamus/Cesaro :lol And HM to Barrett & Cesaro/Sheamus & RVD which I gave ***1/4.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

When Sheamus vs Cesaro started I thought I was going to dislike it, but not long after it started to hit its stride for me & became an overall strong outing. Still totally like the finish. It felt like that school boy win to come out of a deathmatch only not stupid b/c that happens so often. They beat the tar out of each other in fashion that wasn't always demanding of the widest range of intelligence. Then Sheamus ups and uses his head once he wasn't loopy enough from the swing to catch Cesaro. Boosh.

Certainly better matches from both this year. At ten minutes or WAY under. _(mostly for Sheamus on that point)_ No question. I'll happily accept this and I wouldn't consider that standing up for mediocrity. That would be saved for plenty of other things to come out of WWE these days.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, that was Sheamus' best singles match of the year definitely. Even better than the awesome sprint vs Barrett on Raw. However, Cesaro did have better stuff (vs Cena and vs Zayn as obvious). And it's not even their best match together (Main Event 2013 being that). That being said, it was still quite awesome and MOTN easily, and I feel like a couple more minutes could've plunged it into **** territory.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Ryback, Titus O'Neil, & Dean Ambrose all destroy the PPV match vs Cesaro. And all of those were shorter by two minutes or more. Which was the point Rah made.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Barrett/Sheamus > that PPV match, too. But I'll be without Hayley on that one. Ambrose and Titus matches are getting slept on hard, here, if you guys enjoyed Cesaro/Sheamus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Wade from RAW was a royal smash 'em up that I was 100% pleased w/. Perhaps it should be seen again to see which I like more. Sheamus has already proven to me multiple times that he actually works better w/Barrett than vs Cesaro.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

bme said:


> Saw that post in caps and knew it was serious business, so i decided to watch CESCA/CANTAZARO.
> I really enjoyed it. the holds, the reversals and the strikes were so rough i thought they dubbed in sound effects.


^ see, this wonderful man has just jumped the ranks ahead of you scoundrels. Follow his example please.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well after the Duggan talk, i have these next on my 'watch list':

Ted Dibiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (No DQ Taped Fist Match)
Ted Dibiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (Street Fight) (03.08.1985)
Ted Dibiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (No DQ, Tuxedo, Coal Miners Glove, Loser Leaves Town, Cage match) (New Orleans 3/30/85)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The feud ender sounds like a Russo wet-dream on paper, but I assure you if you watch the feud and understand the context, each of those stipulations have actual relevance to the feud ender and really set about in completing the story they're telling. It's a short match by feud ender conventions, but it's worked at a ridiculous pace, sees both tee off with filthy punches and the crowd are molten for absolutely everything. The finish is absolute perfection in terms of the two year war they've been having, and it's probably the match that exceeds expectation to anyone unfamiliar with the context and just judging off of the gimmicks attached to the match.

Then watch Cesca/Cantazaro please. PLEASE.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, there is also the Ted Dibiase vs. Hacksaw Duggan (9/8/83) match to watch too before them. there is also a handy buildup recap video on the Mid South Comp.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Woolcock, did you see the Cesca/Peruvians tag (Cesca/Chemoil Vs Tejero/Peruano)? Completely dispels the notion that old school is too slow for the contemporary viewer.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Woolcock, did you see the Cesca/Peruvians tag (Cesca/Chemoil Vs Tejero/Peruano)? Completely dispels the notion that old school is too slow for the contemporary viewer.


I've followed the batch of 60s French wrestling being uploaded to youtube, but I truthfully haven't sat down and watched any of them yet bar Cesca/Cantazaro (which has been up for years anyway). One of the Peruvians in that tag is then in a singles match which got extremely strong praise as well, so hopefully before my holiday I'll sit down and dedicate a couple of hours to sitting through the recently uploaded stuff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Only came across those matches thanks to Segunda Caida's C&A on French catch. Their little discovery might just be better than Jetlag's Germany/Lucha collection, for me. I realise this is far off-topic, but Cesca's worth it, people!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> 6YA is their best match imo and a great shout for best ROH match. It's not merely the ringwork itself, but the broader implications. For starters, in a time period where ROH struggled to retain authentic face/heel reactions, this match is truly unique. Nigel had been slowly losing support because of injury and postponing title defences. For Bryan to get the match, he agreed to not target Nigel's head, which was recovering from a concussion. Basically, Nigel reacts to a move he perceives as Bryan going back on his word (which he didn't) and proceeds to officially turn heel, besmirching the traditions of the title. From that point on, EVERYONE is begging Danielson to win. In a company where head-drops, somersault hurricanranas and crowd dives could get passable reactions, basic heel mannerisms by Nigel were getting visceral hatred from the fans.
> 
> Then you have the back-story, which revovles around Nigel trying to claim superiority over Bryan, stemming from their '06 series and '07 matches. He needs to establish himself as the best, and that Danielson's time has come and gone. So the middle of the match has so much callbacks and character development in Nigel's case, that all of Bryan's comebacks feel desperate and suspenseful, in addition to the crowd being fully invested in everything. No Nigel chants just because it needs to be 50/50. The very thought of Nigel walking out with the title disgusts the New York audience.
> 
> ...



What you were describing with Nigel's slow burn turn is exactly why I adore that 6YA match so much. Nigel really does Heel Tactics 101 throughout, and it just goes to show that stuff is timeless, it will ALWAYS get a reaction and people have been doing it for 50+ years for a reason. Then the headbutt comes. Oh Lordy, that head but. You used the word visceral and I can't think of a better word to describe the all out hatred the fans show to Nigel after he does that. You'd have thought that Nigel had taken a leisurely stroll around the arena and spit in every fans face. From then on, it's one of those deals were if Bryan gets screwed for the title, Nigel's safety is in question because they were so outraged. Man I love it. I've gotta watch it again soon.



Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Yeah, was it something to the effect of you could lose the Pure title by countout, but not the ROH title? Thus, despite being under pure rules, Danielson's ROH title superceded the rule, thus he loses by countout, retains the title, and Nigel wins by countout, retains his title but doesn't win the ROH title?
> 
> I was also going to say, but Cesca/Cantazaro >> Bryan/Nigel, but now I'm resigned to that becoming the next match I praise that no fucker watches because fuck a dumb Welshman with a fascination for obscure 60s French classics.


But not before I watch Cesca/Cantazaro, I was about 7 minutes into it last night and was really enjoying it when I was rudely interrupted by my girlfriend coming over. Although it was worth it just to see the look on her face when she realized I was watching a black and white tape of a match that took place in France back in the 60s. It just screamed "my god this man is hopeless". :lmao



Hayley Seydoux said:


> CJack remember yesterday when I said heel/face doesn't matter much and it largely comes down if someone feels like being a surly prick that night? Well, this is probably the best example of it. And yes, it is a top contender for manliest wrestling match ever seen. Watch this and Duggan vs Saywer a page back and see which takes the cake for a fun project.
> 
> love how the screenshot for this match is when it was on the brief leg workover part :aryalol


I'm certainly gonna check this out ASAP when I get home from work today. Good look sir(Y)



Rah said:


> The stars align... VIRUS~!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've decided I need to watch Sheamus/Cesaro PB again. So far, you are the only one that appears to share my opinion that it was a mediocre match from two guys capable of much better. On my first and only watch, when it was live, it felt as if they were stuck in 3rd year and never really shifted up to make it anything other than an average TV match. I was expecting them to top that awesome Main Event match from last year but it didn't feel like they got anywhere near that level. I love watching both guys wrestle so it's gonna get a rewatch here soon.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The channel that was posted at WKO has an upload as recent as five days ago. Crap, if I'm not going to watch this stuff I should at least be continually grabbing it. I was literally set to download Black Terry Jr's stuff mere days/weeks before he made all of his stuff pay-to-watch. I kick myself every time I think of me not doing it when I first thought of it and I will not let a regret on that level happen again.

eh, it can wait until tomorrow.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Only came across those matches thanks to Segunda Caida's C&A on French catch. Their little discovery might just be better than Jetlag's Germany/Lucha collection, for me. I realise this is far off-topic, but Cesca's worth it, people!


Much the same. That little place has been so responsible for allowing me to access avenues I'd never have known about when I decided to give wrestling a chance again back in '09. Might make a suggestion on their place to see if they can keep the obscure and hidden gems going, since the Lucha/Territories stuff is majestic, but it's been some of the really obscure stuff that has caught my attention.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What you were describing with Nigel's slow burn turn is exactly why I adore that 6YA match so much. Nigel really does Heel Tactics 101 throughout, and it just goes to show that stuff is timeless, it will ALWAYS get a reaction and people have been doing it for 50+ years for a reason. Then the headbutt comes. Oh Lordy, that head but. You used the word visceral and I can't think of a better word to describe the all out hatred the fans show to Nigel after he does that. You'd have thought that Nigel had taken a leisurely stroll around the arena and spit in every fans face. From then on, it's one of those deals were if Bryan gets screwed for the title, Nigel's safety is in question because they were so outraged. Man I love it. I've gotta watch it again soon.
> 
> 
> 
> But not before I watch Cesca/Cantazaro, I was about 7 minutes into it last night and was really enjoying it when I was rudely interrupted by my girlfriend coming over. Although it was worth it just to see the look on her face when she realized I was watching a black and white tape of a match that took place in France back in the 60s. It just screamed "my god this man is hopeless". :lmao


Yeah the fact it's such a layered match really sets it apart. In many ways that's why '04-'08 ROH >>>>>> current ROH, because back then the crowd were invested and even though you had dual chanting, it still felt like people cared. Nowadays, current ROH really is stuck in a rut where the crowds are shite except for the big spots, and with little to no characters or personalities beyond the stiff striking and high impact spots. The 6YA match was really special in prime ROH, but it's on a different planet in terms of nuanced work to the current product, and that's quite sad to see how far it's fallen. 

It's probably the closest you'd get to King's Road in an ROH ring. It ties together not only Bryan/Nigel's history, but Bryan's feud with Morishima and Nigel's months of gradual resentment with the fans when his injuries stop him from regularly defending the title. Finish is the absolute perfect middle finger to the audience.

(Y). I stand by my claim you will be hard pressed to come away from Cesca/Cantazaro with anything but a positive impression. Even if you were to consider there wasn't clear struggle and build to the bigger moments, and considered it merely an exhibition, it's still one of the most flawless, fluid and mind-blowing 'spectacles' I've seen. So there's really little way I could see anyone disliking it.



Yeah1993 said:


> The channel that was posted at WKO has an upload as recent as five days ago. Crap, if I'm not going to watch this stuff I should at least be continually grabbing it. I was literally set to download Black Terry Jr's stuff mere days/weeks before he made all of his stuff pay-to-watch. I kick myself every time I think of me not doing it when I first thought of it and I will not let a regret on that level happen again.
> 
> eh, it can wait until tomorrow.


I think I read Jetlag @ WKO say he grabbed everything that was upped to youtube, in the event it gets taken down. But aye, if you want personal comfort and not having to rely on him uploading everything again, then grab it if you can. I'm pretty sure there's only been about five matches so far (at least those which made it to the C&A where they did reviews @ SC).


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Another new comp.*

*Best of Cesaro (10 Discs)*
_Disc 1
Claudio Castagnoli vs Mike Quackenbush - IWA:MS Ted Petty Invitational 2006 Night 2
Claudio Castagnoli vs Bryan Danielson - ROH Northern Navigation
Claudio Castagnoli vs Brodie Lee - Steel Cage Match - CHIKARA Style & Substance
Kings of Wrestling vs Motor City Machine Guns - ROH Supercard of Honor V
Claudio Castagnoli vs Ricochet - PWG BOLA 2010 Night 1
Claudio Castagnoli vs El Generico - PWG Kurt RusselReunion II

Disc 2
Antonio Cesaro vs Xavier Woods - FCW 15.01.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Richie Steamboat - FCW 15 Championship - 15 Minute Ironman Match - FCW 18.03.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Richie Steamboat - FCW 15 Championship - 20 Minute Ironman Match - FCW 08.04.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Richie Steamboat - FCW 15 Championship - 30 Minute Ironman Match - FCW 06.05.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Kassius Ohno - FCW 13.05.2012
BONUS: Antonio Cesaro vs The Miz - WWE House Show 15.01.2013

Disc 3
Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel - Superstars 06.09.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Justin Gabriel - Superstars 11.10.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Tyson Kidd - NXT 31.10.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Sheamus - Raw 26.11.2012
Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston vs R-Truth vs Wade Barrett - US Championship - Raw 03.12.2012
Antonio Cesaro & Damien Sandow vs Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel - NXT 16.01.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sin Cara - Main Event 06.03.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Adrian Neville - NXT 24.04.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Main Event 01.05.2013

Disc 4
Antonio Cesaro vs Randy Orton - Main Event 08.05.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - NXT 22.05.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sheamus - Main Event 05.06.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - NXT 12.06.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sheamus - Smackdown 14.06.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Bo Dallas - NXT Championship - NXT 03.07.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler - Main Event 10.07.2013

Disc 5
Antonio Cesaro vs Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango vs Jack Swagger vs Dean Ambrose - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn vs Leo Kruger - NXT 17.07.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.07.2013
Antonio Cesaro & Leo Kruger vs Sami Zayn & Bo Dallas - NXT 30.07.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - 2/3 Falls - NXT 21.08.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler - Superstars 30.08.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs Leo Kruger - NXT 08.10.2013

Disc 6
The Real Americans & Damien Sandow vs John Cena, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Smackdown 01.11.2013
The Real Americans & Damien Sandow vs John Cena, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 04.11.2013
The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 22.11.2013
The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs Ryback & Curtis Axel vs Big Show & Rey Mysterio - WWE Tag Team Championships - TLC 2013
Antonio Cesaro & Leo Kruger vs Sami Zayn & Tyson Kidd - NXT 18.12.2013
Antonio Cesaro vs William Regal - NXT 25.12.2013

Disc 7
The Real Americans vs The Usos - Smackdown 17.01.2014
Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 31.01.2014
Antonio Cesaro vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 07.02.2014
The Real Americans vs Sheamus & Christian - Raw 10.02.2014
Cesaro vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 14.02.2014
Cesaro vs John Cena - Raw 17.02.2014
Cesaro vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 21.02.2014

Disc 8
Cesaro vs Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan vs John Cena vs Sheamus vs Christian - WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Elimination Chamber - Elimination Chamber 2014
Cesaro vs Big E - Raw 24.02.2014
Cesaro vs Sami Zayn - NXT ArRIVAL
The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Smackdown 14.03.2014

Disc 9
The Real Americans vs The Usos - Raw 17.03.2014
The Real Americans vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Main Event 18.03.2014
The Real Americans vs Seth Rollins & Dean Ambrose - Raw 24.03.2014
The Real Americans vs The Usos vs Los Matadores vs Ryback & Curtis Axel - WWE Tag Team Championships - Wrestlemania 30
Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal - Wrestlemania 30
Cesaro vs Jack Swagger - Raw 07.04.2014
Cesaro vs Big Show - Smackdown 11.04.2014

Disc 10
Cesaro vs Mark Henry - Raw 14.04.2014
Cesaro vs Jack Swagger - Smackdown 25.04.2014
Cesaro vs Jack Swagger vs Rob Van Dam - Extreme Rules 2014
Cesaro vs Sheamus - Main Event 13.05.2014
Cesaro vs Sheamus - Raw 19.05.2014
Cesaro vs Sheamus - US Championship - Payback 2014
BONUS: Antonio Cesaro vs The Miz - WWE House Show 01.02.2013_

*PM me for more info about getting it. Also CHIKARA still sucks.*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^ Continual message, but Seabs is absolutely the most trustworthy and reliable person I've bought from, and is incredibly cost effective given the quality of the output he provides.

Seen some extracts from Meltzer elsewhere today, and apparently he's reporting Bryan is losing more feeling in his hands since the surgery, but is still expected to work MITB in order to conserve his spot. Firstly, this frightens me and I'd sooner see Bryan back in the uppercard than the Main Event if it meant he took the necessary time off to heal, and not risk something career threatening or something that would debilitate him after he retires.

Secondly, if and when Bryan does return, I pray he drops the riskier spots from his arsenal and works smarter and safer. He's Bryan, he can and will get over given his career to date if he works smarter and protects his body. The crowd loves him now, and dropping the Missile Dropkick or doing the suicide dive in every match won't impact on that. He's got the matwork, submissions and strikes to protect his body and long-term health, without sacrificing his support. The thought of him retaining the more dangerous spots, simply because the company doesn't want him to deviate from an established moveset, and ultimately becoming another example of a tremendous talent not seeing out his entire career and potential would just be so tragic.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*Is it correct that they're stripping him of the title and having MITB for the title if he's not ready? It's so wrong on so many levels if it's true but it's exactly like something WWE would do. Basically says to Bryan you're gonna wrestle hurt or not if you want to keep this Title and Bryan is Bryan so he'll just lie and say he's ok. Plus it's for a match that isn't even the selling point of this show.

Of course what they should have done though is have him vacate the title to Steph and Hunter the moment they knew he was out and have Hunter parade around as Champion only defending against geeks like Kofi and playing it off as giving new guys a shot at the title because he's such a good guy. Then have Bryan come back at Summerslam and have Vince force Hunter to defend against him at Summerslam with a no rules stip and then restart from there. At least then the title isn't forgotten, Bryan stays hot, they have the big Summerslam main event they're clamouring for and Bryan gets more time off than he probably needs and they get a huge angle when he returns after being left off TV for 3 odd months. But that makes me a bad fan for being smarter than them apparently and instead Bryan is looking like a pussy standing behind BRIE BELLA while she stands up to Stephanie for him.*


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah the thinking seems to be they'd have two MITB matches, one for the briefcase and one for the title. At this point I'd have him vacate it in a heartbeat to preserve his long-term health. From a personal standpoint he doesn't deserve to risk his long-term health for the sake of facing Kane, and from a business standpoint potentially endangering his health means they lose him for even longer and leaves them in an even worse situation. It also continues a dangerous precedent where people who follow Bryan would be expected to perform to the same standards as him, i.e work hurt. It's a stupid mindset brought about because Vince & co rely on a select number of stars, rather than working to make stars for the future to replace bigger stars when they go down.

I get they wanted to see how his surgery went before making a decision, but the way they've gone about it is horrible. Constant baits and switches reminiscent of WCW at their worst, which only serves to cause disinterest when nothing happens on a weekly basis, all whilst Bryan is flown to shows which can't be helpful for his neck. It's stupid because they're employing revisionist history to explain why Stephanie doesn't just strip him, all whilst having her make legitimate accusations that Bryan is selfishly denying the fans title matches, which is the worst way to have Stephanie try and gain heat.

As you said, having HHH or someone of his choice have the belt and basically duck credible challengers until they can build to a Bryan return would have been fresh and hopefully attracted some heat. Instead, they're having Bryan travel round the country when he could be resting and recovering for pointless segments which don't advance the story, which see him come off as pitiful and weak, whilst Stephanie makes criticisms of him that aren't the right way to gain heat. Once they realised he would be out more than a couple of weeks, it should have been a case of having him vacate/be stripped, which would only gain him more sympathy and intrigue amidst the whole 'WWE don't want him as champion' angle.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Seabs said:


> *Of course what they should have done though is have him vacate the title to Steph and Hunter the moment they knew he was out and have Hunter parade around as Champion only defending against geeks like Kofi and playing it off as giving new guys a shot at the title because he's such a good guy. Then have Bryan come back at Summerslam and have Vince force Hunter to defend against him at Summerslam with a no rules stip and then restart from there. At least then the title isn't forgotten, Bryan stays hot, they have the big Summerslam main event they're clamouring for and Bryan gets more time off than he probably needs and they get a huge angle when he returns after being left off TV for 3 odd months. But that makes me a bad fan for being smarter than them apparently and instead Bryan is looking like a pussy standing behind BRIE BELLA while she stands up to Stephanie for him.*


This would've been awesome :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The best part is that Kane is completely forgotten if Bryan is unable to compete. He'll be left without a title shot while the MITB guys duke it out.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

you mean the DEMON KANE?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

30 minute PPV main with HHH against Kofi sounds frighteningly great. I honestly don't want to see anything out of wrestling anymore until that happens.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So I saw that French match last night shitt...holy shit it was weird watching a match so dated yet so current at the same time. I'm just guessing here, but I'd assume European wrestling was better than North American? I've never seen a North American match from the same time period resemble what I watched last night. All those reversals, those uppercuts. Felt like watching Finlay and Regal go at it.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:

It's hard to gauge, because the difference in styles obviously makes it hard to gauge how the likes of Thesz, Gotch and co could have adapted with different expectations and styles. The European style at the time, and from early WOS, certainly placed a great emphasis on speed, technique, fluidity and break-neck action, whereas the American style was far more simplistic and aimed at longer matches whilst protecting regional stars at the time. It's definitely far more advanced than anything I've seen from US wrestling at that particular time, but it is hard to properly gauge the respective talent given the complete contrast in styles with how workers were expected to engage the audience.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Cesaro was on fifth gear all throughout. Like the criticisms towards Shield/Evolution II, I do not understand any discontent with Sheamus/Cesaro. Eh, it's better to like something than not to, as long as it isn't Konnan.

Speaking as a brother of a little kid who got into wrestling because of Bryan, I can definitely attest to the idea of Bryan "toning down" his moveset for a more efficient and smarter set, at least for the time being. My brother and his little buddies react the same way to a diving headbutt as they do to a simple kick. Bryan is so over that he can go full Sangre Chicana and only do two moves in a match and people will still love him. He doesn't sacrifice anything considering that he never truly was a high-flyer like a Mysterio. 

But Bryan can't really win in this situation. If he continues to recover instead of wrestling at MITB, he risks losing trust from the higher ups, especially when they have another top face who is known for recovering from injuries in unheard time period, but let's just hope that this individual never touches another title again. The pre-med in me wouldn't want to see him wrestle at MITB though considering that the benefit doesn't equal the costs (sorry Kane) and the risk associated with a gimmick match is just too much for a neck injury. 

I do disagree with a point made by WOOLCOCK about how the WWE hasn't done a good enough job at building replacement stars. The WWE didn't just make one; they made three. The Shield can truly carry on a main event feud without the WWE losing anything. And now that they added a new interesting twist into their saga, it only makes sense to continue building the main event around The Shield for now until Bryan comes back in full health. This isn't 2012 where the company only allowed one guy to main event. The WWE is more comfortable now with alternating more folks at the top of the show. Let The Shield continue to be the main event and we will not have to suffer through another Triple H title reign all the while Bryan rests and recovers. Everybody wins.

How do the folks here feel about the Eddie/Rey cage match? Just finished watching it. I do like it, but I really feel like they wrestled the wrong match. What should have been a bloody brawl that warranted being a feud-ender turned into your generic WWE cage match without the crazy spots. It's not shitty like their WM match or less than average like the ladder bout, but after their amazing match in June, it really felt like both Eddie and Rey ran out of interesting ideas and the feud went to shit in the case of its storyline, and the matches went from being great to average. I will say that I enjoyed the feud more than I initially did after this rewatch, but I can confidently say that I enjoyed watching the Jericho/Mysterio matches in 2009 over the Eddie/Rey 2005 series.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How do the folks here feel about the Eddie/Rey cage match? Just finished watching it. I do like it, but I really feel like they wrestled the wrong match. What should have been a bloody brawl that warranted being a feud-ender turned into your generic WWE cage match without the crazy spots. It's not shitty like their WM match or less than average like the ladder bout, but after their amazing match in June, it really felt like both Eddie and Rey ran out of interesting ideas and the feud went to shit in the case of its storyline, and the matches went from being great to average.


I gave it **1/2. Structure and pace just seemed off. Eddie finally going over Rey was sweet, though.



funnyfaces1 said:


> I can confidently say that I enjoyed watching the Jericho/Mysterio matches in 2009 over the Eddie/Rey 2005 series.


Same. Jericho and Rey had one cult classic, and at least three other good-to-great matches, while Eddie and Rey had one cult classic, one good match, a huge pile of mediocrity, and that lelworthy ladder match.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I do disagree with a point made by WOOLCOCK about how the WWE hasn't done a good enough job at building replacement stars. The WWE didn't just make one; they made three. The Shield can truly carry on a main event feud without the WWE losing anything. And now that they added a new interesting twist into their saga, it only makes sense to continue building the main event around The Shield for now until Bryan comes back in full health. This isn't 2012 where the company only allowed one guy to main event. The WWE is more comfortable now with alternating more folks at the top of the show. Let The Shield continue to be the main event and we will not have to suffer through another Triple H title reign all the while Bryan rests and recovers. Everybody wins.


My point was more-so that they seem to want Bryan to return because of how valuable he is, regardless of his health, because they don't have much in the way of an alternate plan if he's out of commission. The Shield have been a fine replacement in Main Event angles, but they're still well away from being capable of running with the singles belt for the time being, and that's where they're stuck without Bryan. Cena is the only real full-time guy they have at the moment capable of taking the belt and running with it, whereas The Shield trio need more grooming and development, Cesaro has sadly struggled to kick on post-Mania and Sheamus is now firmly treading water, working very good-great matches but with little story to keep him relevant to people not merely content with good matches.

Vince's strategy has always been to pretty much milk his cash cow dry, and then set about finding the replacement, rather than taking gradual steps to find immediate successors. Obviously Rock & Austin were the exception, but in Bryan's case, they know they're struggling in his absence because the crowds are so invested in him, and it's on them that they have to potentially risk Bryan working hurt to steer them to their eventual direction, rather than call an audible.

The Eddie/Rey Cage match is definitely well below their JD, GAB and June SD matches. Ladder match is probably the worst for me, when you take into the account the Dominic aspect, as well as Vickie missing her cue and Eddie's reaction. I think they tried to go the direction of Eddie being obsessed with beating Rey, but channeling himself into not making a mistake, rather than recklessly trying to massacre him. An odd end given how personal the feud had become after Summerslam no doubt.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Eh, it's better to like something than not to, as long as it isn't Konnan.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

All this talk about Jericho/Mysterio made me feel to re-watch their match at the Bash. In the video, they showed the replay of what happened on SD when Jericho was pretending to be a fan :mark:

God, I talk about SD 2009 all day long. It's such a shame I lost my DVDs. I had every episode from about January to August. Things started to fall off imo once Taker got the strap but with Punk/Hardy and Jericho/Rey SD was GOLD every week. Not to mention the awesome undercard at the time. It's a pitty RAW was sucking complete balls at the time. Because of RAW, the year 2009 gets a bad rep.

Oh and for discussion purposes, Jerichp/Rey The Bash or Extreme Rules? I prefer the former.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive only seen the Bash Jericho/Mysterio match and i fucking love it, what are there other matches, one at ER wasn't there?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Jericho/Mysterio The Bash still holds up. *****1/4*



The Hitman said:


> Ive only seen the Bash Jericho/Mysterio match and i fucking love it, what are there other matches, one at ER wasn't there?


Extreme Rules, Judgment Day and they had a match on SD as well. They may have had one or more matches on SD but I can only recall one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They had a match on the commercial free RAW too. Well, looks like I know what I'm watching after work today. The most baffling thing of all too is that they both had really shitty chemistry back in WCW. I don't know what changed, but it's great to see that they ended up having the feud that they were supposed to have. 2009 Smackdown before Undertaker ruined everything with that all-time garbage title reign was a beauty. And then you had ECW going back to the basics and running a terrific brand off the back of one of the most underappreciated talents Vince McMahon ever had.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There was Misawa/Kawada talk the other day, and i mentioned a comp i had. Here are the listings again for people who may wish to seek out some matches:



Spoiler: Misawa vs Kawada Comp



Mitsuharu Misawa vs Toshiaki Kawada (14 Discs)

DISC 1: "The Prologue"

1. 1988 RWTL: Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu (12/16/88 ) - This match will be foreshadowing for latter on. Here Kawada is the youngster, out of his league, latter this role will fall to Kobashi and then Akiyama. Watch as they destroy Kawada's knee. Remember that for the 12/93 tag match, the 6/3/94 match, and many more...

2. Triple Crown: Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (06/05/89) - This match is an interesting harbinger of things to come. It is the longest Triple Crown match up to this point, and serves almost as the bridge between 1980's AJPW style, and the style Misawa and Co. would use in the 90's. Meltzer gave it *****, and it's easily one of the best matches of the 80's.

3. Tiger Mask II (Misawa) & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Yatsu and Fuyuki (05/14/90) - Tiger Mask II gets brutalized by Yatsu and Fuyuki, and as a result unmasks as Misawa, and kicks some ass.

4. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (06/08/90) - Misawa upsets Jumbo, in by FAR the biggest win of his career up to this point. One of the greatest matches you'll ever see.

DISC 2: "Partners"

5. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (10/19/90) - One of the best Misawa & Co. vs. Jumbo & Co. six man's.

6. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue & Masanobu Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (04/20/91) - Another amazing six man tag. Probably the most famous of the six man tags from this time. Hell, I could probably fill 10 discs of just Misawa & co. vs. Jumbo & co. six man tag's and they'd all rule.

7. World Tag Titles: Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (07/24/91) - Misawa and Kawada upset the champs and win the tag team titles for the first time.

DISC 3: "The Triple Crown"

8. Triple Crown: © Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Toshiaki Kawada (10/24/91) - Misawa's beaten Jumbo, now Kawada gives it a try. Everyone knows he really has no chance, but he gives it a hell of an effort. Awesome match.

9. Triple Crown: Mitsuharu Misawa vs. © Stan Hansen (8/22/92) - Misawa wins the Triple Crown from Stan Hansen, beginning his two year Triple Crown reign.

10. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (10/21/92) - Misawa makes his first Triple Crown defense against his partner.

Disc 4: "Different Paths"

11. World Tag Titles: © Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (01/30/93) - Misawa and Kawada lose the tag titles to Gordy and Williams. This would be the last time they would hold the tag titles and one of their last matches as a team.

12. Champions Carnival 1993: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/27/93) - A match from the 1993 Champion Carnival. The animosity is not their yet, more of a contest between former partners.

13. Champions Carnival 1993: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Akira Taue (04/13/93) - Former rivals Taue and Kawada show each other mutual respect after going to a draw, foreshadowing their eventual teaming up.

DISC 5: "New Beginings"

14. World Tag Team Titles: Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. © Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (05/26/93) - Kawada and Taue team up and win back the Tag Titles that Kawada and Misawa lost to Gordy and Williams.

15. World Tag Team Title: Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. © Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (06/01/93) - The first meeting of these teams, a combination that would become legendary.

16. Misawa/Kobashi/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue/Ogawa (07/02/93) - Probably the best six man tag you'll ever see. Everyone plays their roles perfectly, and the crowd goes crazy for the Misawa/Kawada exchanges.

DISC 6: "Enemies"

17. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (07/29/93) - They finally bring the HATE here. Their first singles match with full on animosity.

18. 1993 RWTL: Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (12/03/93) - Best match of the feud up to this point. Remember the 1988 RWTL match here; unlike five years ago, when Kawada's injured knee stopped him from being able to save Tenryu, this time his knee stops him from tagging Taue in. One of the best tag matches you'll ever see.

19. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (4/11/94) - This match would have been part of the actual Champion's Carnival but Misawa was injured... so they still had the match but its non-tourney.

DISC 7: "The Greatest Battle"

20. Champions Carnival 1994 Finals: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Steve Williams (04/16/94) - Kawada wins the 94 carnival and earns another shot at Misawa's titles. Interesting note here: Kawada beats Williams, the man who would go on to end Misawa's TC title reign in October. Great match too.

21. World Tag Team Title: Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (05/21/94) - Kawada's a real prick here, booting Misawa off the apron repeatedly. Just a great vicious tag match, the final 20 min are especially awesome. This match sort of sets the template for the epic tags to come.

22. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (06/03/94) - Pure Art. One of the best matches you'll ever see. You can FEEL Kawada's determination. Watch Misawa go for the knee, watch Kawada bust Misawa's eardrum. Best singles match of the feud, some say all time.

DISC 8: "A Singles Title"

23. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Steve Williams (10/22/94) - Kawada FINALLY wins the Triple Crown. From the man who beat Misawa no less...

24. Champions Carnival 95: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/06/95) - Kawada literally breaks Misawa' face (orbital bone) 30 seconds in... And then they go for another 29:30. That's dedication. Fun match too.

DISC 9: "The Epic Tag"

25. World Tag Team Title: Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (06/09/95) - In my opinion the best men's tag match of all time, with a finish that was literally years in the making. Epic storytelling that will likely never be equaled. You need to see the back-story for it to truly work it's magic. The very definition of a must see match, with some of the greatest selling/visuals/storytelling in a wrestling match that have ever been filmed.

26. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (07/24/95) - Misawa looks to avenge his first pin fall loss to Kawada. Great, great fast paced match. This one doesn't get enough love.

DISC 10: "60 Minute Classic"

27. World Tag Titles: © Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Mitsuharu Misawa (10/15/95) - Probably the best 60 min tag match you'll ever see. Much better than their 1/24/95 60 min draw. I wanted to pick one of the two 60 min draws for this set, I picked this one. You'll thank me if you've never seen it.

DISC 11: "2 Pinfalls"

28. 1996 RWTL Final: Jun Akiyama & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Akira Taue & Toshiaki Kawada (12/06/96) - If 6/9/95 is the best men's tag of all time, this is a close second. Kawada once again pins Misawa. A true classic all around.

29. Champions Carnival 1997: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/02/97) - Fun match. Continuing their series of 30 min draws in the carny.

30. Champions Carnival 1997 Finals: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (04/19/97) - Kawada pins Misawa for the first time in singles competition... In less than 7 minutes...

DISC 12: "The War Continues"

31. Champions Carnival 1997 Finals: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi (04/19/97) - ...and then pins Kobashi on the same night, winning him the 97 Carnival and earning him another shot at Misawa's titles.

32. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (06/06/97) - Kawada tries to give Misawa brain damage by dropping him on his head more times than you can count. Awesome match. Some hate the head dropping; I love the viciousness of Kawada in this match. Oh the head dropping...

33. Champions Carnival 1998: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/29/98 ) - Another 30 min draw. This was needed to set up the "no time limit" stipulation for their upcoming dome match.

DISC 13: "Victory at Last"

34. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (05/01/98 ) - In front of a crowd of 58,300 at the Tokyo Dome, six years after their first Triple Crown match, five years since they were partners, and three years since getting his first pin over Misawa, Kawada FINALLY pins Misawa for the Triple Crown on the biggest stage possible.

35. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (01/22/99) - Kawada breaks his arm mere minutes into this match, that doesn't stop him from pinning Misawa again, and hitting the infamous Ganso bomb in the process. Brutal match.

36. Triple Crown: Toshiaki Kawada vs. © Mitsuharu Misawa (07/23/99) - Misawa faces Kawada in the final Triple Crown match they will ever have. This match works as a highlight reel for their feud, featuring most of their signature spots, like Kawada kicking the crap out of Misawa in the corner, Misawa standing up after Kawada's shin kicks, a tease of the Ganso bomb, and the Tiger Driver '91.

DISC: 14 "Aftermath"

37. Champions Carnival 2000: Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/31/00) - Kawada and Misawa meet for the final time in the champion's carnival. This will be the last match they will ever have against each other in an All Japan ring. Misawa wins, with the first Emerald Frosion he ever hit on Kawada.

38. Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (NOAH, 07/18/05) - In front of a huge Tokyo Dome crowd, at NOAH's biggest show ever, and more than 12 years after their rivalry started, Misawa faces Kawada in what will most likely be the final chapter of their feud. Whether the right man won in the end, that's for you, the viewer, to decide...



I did create some bonus discs today filled with tags involving the pair, may give people ideas at least:



Spoiler: Bonus Discs



Kawada vs Misawa: Bonus Discs

Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJPW 8/18/90) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (AJPW 9/30/90) 
Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJPW 10/19/90) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (AJPW Real World Tag League 12/07/90) 

Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (1/27/91) 
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (9/4/91) 
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (10/10/91) 
Toshiaki Kawada, Mitsuharu Misawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (10/15/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (11/21/91)
Toshiaki Kawada & Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (11/29/91) 

Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJ 1/24/92) 
Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJ 5/22/92) (Joined In Progress)
Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJ 8/20/92) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Kenta Kobashi & Giant Baba (AJ 11/27/92) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada vs. Terry Gordy & Steve Williams (AJ 11/30/92)

Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Akira Taue, Jun Akiyama & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJ 3/3/93) 
Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJ 6/3/93) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi (AJ 7/19/93) 
Mitsuharu Misawa, Jun Akiyama & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJ 8/20/93) (Joined In Progress)
Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJ 10/2/93) 

Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Masa Fuchi (AJ 1/7/94) 
Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Giant Baba vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (AJ 1/29/94) 
Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa (AJPW 10/7/94) (Joined In Progress)
Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJ 11/25/94) (Part Handheld-Part Pro-Shot)

Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (1/24/95) 
Toshiaki Kawada, Yoshinari Ogawa & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama (7/8/95) (Joined In Progress)
Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (12/9/95) 

Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada, Johnny Ace & Gary Albright (AJ 4/20/96) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 5/23/96) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJ 7/9/96) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJ 11/29/96) 
Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (AJPW 11/28/97)
Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Akira Taue (6/4/99)



And the article i found regarding their history: http://www.ichibanpuroresu.com/kawadamisawa.html


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I read that article yesterday, was a fantastic read for someone who knew very little about the feud other than the odd bit here and there (Kawada being unable to gain the pinfall on Misawa, the Kawada/Taue team etc). Definitely inspired me to watch the whole thing unravel and progress, recommend reading it to everyone, even if you're not going to watch any of the matches.

Need something to watch (not Misawa/Kawada ) The more recommendations the better, keep me busy. I'll report back and review anything I watch, also.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> I gave it **1/2. Structure and pace just seemed off. Eddie finally going over Rey was sweet, though.
> 
> 
> 
> Same. Jericho and Rey had one cult classic, and at least three other good-to-great matches, while Eddie and Rey had one cult classic, one good match, a huge pile of mediocrity, and that lelworthy ladder match.



WM 21: Mediocre
Judgement Day: Really Great
SD 6/23/05: All time great, best TV match ever
GAB: Great, off the charts character work from Eddie
SS: divisive, I think it's great but I get that some don't think as highly (WAY better than Hogan/Andre )
SD Cage: Really good


Jericho/Rey was awesome, but come on now. No one touches Eddie and Rey. Comparing Jericho's heel character in 2009 to Eddies heel character in 2005 is like comparing horse manure to ice cream, as Heenan would say. I really like Jericho, but he's no Eddie, and Eddie with a completely broken down body was still the best wrestler in the world and better than Jericho would ever dream of being.

If you throw in the SD matches Eddie and Rey had at the turn of the year in 2005, plus the one after WM 20 in 2004, then include all their matches in WCW....they are right up there for best rivalry ever from an in ring stand point.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Robbie said:


> Need something to watch (not Misawa/Kawada ) The more recommendations the better, keep me busy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK4ehNvAKeY

Please. I have high confidence it will appeal to you based on your tastes and preferences. It's a bit of a departure from WOS if that's what your expecting, and has more of a fusion of British and Lucha styles with European and Puro influences. Some of the sequences will blow you away and if you've seen better matwork from anyone not named Volk Han I'll be shocked.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> They had a match on the commercial free RAW too. Well, looks like I know what I'm watching after work today. The most baffling thing of all too is that they both had really shitty chemistry back in WCW. I don't know what changed, but it's great to see that they ended up having the feud that they were supposed to have. 2009 Smackdown before Undertaker ruined everything with that all-time garbage title reign was a beauty.* And then you had ECW going back to the basics and running a terrific brand off the back of one of the most underappreciated talents Vince McMahon ever had*.


How could i forget ECW from that year as well? And is that underappreciated talent Christian by chance? Such a shame.

I remember when ECW was going to be replaced by NXT, I was one of the few people that was mad. For some reason, people saw the show as crap (mostly cause they were living in the past and couldn't just see it as a name of a show) and was glad for it to be cancelled. I knew that once ECW got cancelled a lot of great, underappreciated talent will be out of work.

At the time Zack Ryder hadn't caught on yet but people were starting to take notice. And yeah, nowadays it's pretty laughable to even mention the guy's name but there was a time when almost everyone was a mark. It makes me wonder to this day where Ryder would have been had ECW not get cancelled. Meh, probably a jobber still.

While NXT was cool when it first debut, it ran its course pretty quick. It only took a few months till it was reduced to Heat/Velocity status- an online show. At least they were smart enough to scrap the whole idea and just have it as the developmental brand. Still, ECW that year was kickass.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Robbie said:


> Need something to watch


Two really fun TV matches:




And, of course, the greatest match of our age (or any other age, tbf):









The Rabid Wolverine said:


> WM 21: Mediocre
> Judgement Day: Really Great
> SD 6/23/05: All time great, best TV match ever
> GAB: Great, off the charts character work from Eddie
> ...


Punk/Hardy > > all of that.



> (WAY better than Hogan/Andre )


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Robbie said:


> Need something to watch (not Misawa/Kawada ) The more recommendations the better, keep me busy. I'll report back and review anything I watch, also.


This on my 'to watch' list:






Complete match baby.


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

Payback 14

Cena/Wyatt LMS-****1/2-****3/4
Shield/Evolution-****


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


>


Ill have to watch that later. I thought i did the other week, turned out it was their NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI match lol.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> This on my 'to watch' list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Greatest. Crowd. EVER. Hometown hero Kikuchi with dat overness!



The Hitman said:


> Ill have to watch that later. I thought i did the other week, turned out it was their NJPW Wrestle Kingdom VI match lol.


They had another match between these two, at G1. Their WK match is actually the weakest of the trilogy.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)

> - WrestlingDVDNews.com has confirmed that WWE is going ahead with a DVD and Blu-ray on Sting and it will be released on September 23rd in the United States and on September 29th in the UK. It's possible that this will just be a match compilation and they will release a Sting documentary, as hinted at in the most recent Fan Council survey, down the line. Below is the DVD synopsis:
> 
> "The Sting DVD chronicles his entire career from his Mid-South days as part of the Blade-Runners (with Ultimate Warrior) through his last WCW match vs. Ric Flair on the very last episode of WCW Monday Nitro (3/26/01).
> 
> ...


Read more at http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/wwe..._s_Being_Featured_In.html#H10EoKIExDwVx9PR.99


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Has anyone got the 6th March 2003 episode of Smackdown? Just wondered what the opening scene was, was it Hogan calling Vince out?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Tanahashi/Suzuki was 2012? Holy shit has time flown. Think I'm gonna watch it again. Love that match so freaking much. My 2012 MOTY.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The Hitman said:


> This on my 'to watch' list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


***3/4 :brodgers



Taroostyles said:


> Payback 14
> 
> Cena/Wyatt LMS-****1/2-****3/4
> Shield/Evolution-****


woah


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

HoL if you fancy an out of left field recommendation, how does a 60s match from France strike you?


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> The lack of selling we are complaining about is that it just appeared that both guys were trading moves. It would be Bray doing a big spot, Cena down for a 10 count. Then Cena would pop up at 9, hit a big move on Bray, then Bray would be down for a 8 count. Rinse. Repeat. Ad nauseum. And that's not true about all LMS spamming 10 counts. I urge you to go watch Foley/Rocky Valentines Day Massacre, Jericho/Hunter Fully Loaded, or Batista/Taker Backlash and tell me they spam the 10 count the same way Cena/Bray and Cena/Edge BL 09' did. They aren't even close to being the same. Hell even Cena/Batista and Cena/Umaga weren't nearly as bad spamming the 10 count and then no selling every thing that was done before said 10 count.
> 
> To me, selling is such an integral part of wrestling. I'm not a stickler for it like my man Funnyfaces is, but a match completely devoid of coherent selling and story telling like Bray/Cena is, stops being a wrestling match and devolves into an exhibition of spots.
> 
> Take some time out, watch Jericho/Hunter Fully Loaded 2000, witness how AWESOME Jericho sells everything, and you will see what I and many others are talking about.


The Jericho/HHH match was excellent - I have it at about the same **** rating. It's worked a hair slow for me, and so the match runs a few minutes long. Half-assed brawling on the outside wore itself out on me in my youth with WCW, and Jericho isn't a sympathetic face in the match imo. Though there's lots of grey in it (Steph involvement), the story is good and multifaceted. How does DDT; 10 count; sleeper; 10 count; Pedigree; 10 count get a pass?


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

don't watch much wrestling these days, but I'll give it a go if it's absolutely top tier.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I cant totally vouch for that 60's French match, Woolcock been pimping the last couple of days. Totally awesome, some of the counters/sequences were out of this world. I was totally expecting a slow-burn type start but it was :mark: out of the gate. Match like that gets you out of a slump.


I'm one who has never been VERY High on Jericho but I'll give him his due when he deserves it his 2009 series w/ Rey is amazing, and his heel run was pretty good so I wouldnt say its out of this world to consider it close to Eddie's 05 even thought I think the latter was better.


----------



## Rahil_Rage (Jun 5, 2014)

Can-Am is short for Canadian-American. Meaning one of them is canadian and the other is american.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Femto said:


> don't watch much wrestling these days, but I'll give it a go if it's absolutely top tier.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CK4ehNvAKeY

I'd put it as one of the ten best matches I've ever seen, though that can always change given how subjective and varied a lot of the best matches are. I don't know how familiar you are with British and Lucha wrestling, but it basically has Lucha grace, British technique and fluidity, matwork with the speed and creativity of Volk Han, a strike exchange sequence which is built to, timed and executed to perfection and a tremendous build that gets across struggle, purpose and meaning behind the great sequences.

No pressure, but it's about the most obscure match you'll come across and I can't envisage you getting around to it otherwise


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I'll give it a view tomorrow. (Y)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

:hb


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I guess it comes down to what you are looking for in your brawls. Funk is undeniably a strong #1 for best brawler ever.



Terry Funk I don't believe gets near enough credit by the masses (us Terry Funk stalwarts perhaps overpreach but it is necessary) for his abilities within the confines of wrestling, I think part of this is because outside of the famous moonsault, there is nothing flashy about Terry Funk and obviously a large part of the misjudging of Funk by many outside of age is Funk's inability to retire from the squared circle.

You look at Terry Funk's attributes though, and you see one hell of an ALL TIME talent. Undertaker is credited by many as the king of evolution, but Terry Funk certainly kicked the product cycle's ass by staying fresh as the ascending, championship scene entering Terry Funk: a gentleman who was a fine mat wrestler who could brawl if need be or if stirred up. Then there is the "middle aged and crazy" Terry Funk of the majority of the 80s. Then of course the time period in which Terry Funk cemented himself as hardcore legend and really helped lay foundation for at the time upstart ECW. I mean hell, that is three legendary sections in their own individual right. Not to mention that Terry Funk duals in overness as being a man with success in two continents considering his big brawls either solo against Hansen or with his brother against Hansen and Brody sometimes adding Baba and Gordy to the mix. 


Terry Funk in the ring certainly older Terry Funk to me is one of the premiere sellers in wrestling history. His expressions of pain really conveyed the theme of giving your body to the business. As Terry Funk would slowly get up after getting hit with God knows what, it would really build such strong and extraordinarily authentic sympathy for the babyface: a trait that is almost extinct in wrestling today. Even the way Terry Funk would plead with a wrestler like Cactus and use their real name to get out of the confines of wrestling and relay that the wrestler is now brutalizing a man, which considering the theatrical elements of wrestling is incredible. I mean hell, even at the most basic level, Terry Funk's ring style allowed him to work matches to great success that even some of the GOAT workers could not ala the legendary Jerry Lawler/Funk empty arena match. I mean hell, the classic Funk matches range from his mat classic in 74 vs Jerry Brisco to the Lawler matches to brawls in AJPW to the heralded classic vs Flair I quit all the way down to a triple threat vs Sabu and Shane Douglas and even a fucking exploding ring match in Japan vs Cactus with plenty of great matches between. That is a very wide spectrum both opponent wise and match type wise.

I know this is a show/match discussion thread, but Terry Funk was even brilliant on the stick. his damn promo mannerisms, the way he could tell an outside story and then tie it back in which would greatly influence Mick Foley who in his ECW work would take this concept to the next level, Terry's conversational tone on the stick in an era prevalent with cartoonish delivery outside of the likes of Bockwinkel, Arn or Jake Roberts. Hell, Terry Funk's greatest promo attribute might be that outside of Jake Roberts (admittedly the king of this) or Eddie, I don't know if there is anyone else where you could look into the eyes of Funk and find a rivaled level of genuine emotion coming out of the character.

I know I went off on a bit of a tangent there, but I am just trying to make all understand that Terry Funk IS an elite talent as can be and we didn't even get into vast contributions to the growth of the business Terry has. Carry on with discussion.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is there a rundown online of the Smackdown 6th March 2003 episode? Just need to find out what the opening scene was.


----------



## Rahil_Rage (Jun 5, 2014)

Furnas and Kroffat (Lafon) also wrestled in WWE and ECW.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Here's a match I've slept on. Everyone always talks about the ladder match from this show but this is a really good match. Jeff and HHH are not a pair that sounds good on paper imo but they managed to mesh so well together despite their different styles. ****3/4*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Seabs said:


> *PM me for more info about getting it. Also CHIKARA still sucks.*


FUCK


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Terry Funk I don't believe gets near enough credit by the masses (us Terry Funk stalwarts perhaps overpreach but it is necessary) for his abilities within the confines of wrestling, I think part of this is because outside of the famous moonsault, there is nothing flashy about Terry Funk and obviously a large part of the misjudging of Funk by many outside of age is Funk's inability to retire from the squared circle.
> 
> You look at Terry Funk's attributes though, and you see one hell of an ALL TIME talent. Undertaker is credited by many as the king of evolution, but Terry Funk certainly kicked the product cycle's ass by staying fresh as the ascending, championship scene entering Terry Funk: a gentleman who was a fine mat wrestler who could brawl if need be or if stirred up. Then there is the "middle aged and crazy" Terry Funk of the majority of the 80s. Then of course the time period in which Terry Funk cemented himself as hardcore legend and really helped lay foundation for at the time upstart ECW. I mean hell, that is three legendary sections in their own individual right. Not to mention that Terry Funk duals in overness as being a man with success in two continents considering his big brawls either solo against Hansen or with his brother against Hansen and Brody sometimes adding Baba and Gordy to the mix.
> 
> ...




Foley talks about this in his book and I think it's 100% true, when Terry Funk was involved, things were just a little more real. He made it easier than anyone else I can think of to suspend your disbelief and just get completely sucked in. Watch those 4 taped promos he did at his ranch for that big match he had with Lawler in 2004. A 60 year old Funk and a 55 year old Lawler were able to draw a crowd of 5,000 people, just based off the promos they cut on one another. My favorite one was when Funk talked about being and Indian giver, how he was gonna give Lawler that wood shard in his right eye, then take it back, then give it to Lawler in his left eye, then take it back, then back to his right eye, then take it back. It was just AWESOME stuff. Who else would come up with something like that? 

Wait, why am I telling you? See for yourself:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Promos are nice and all but where's the match? lol. Never even knew, heck, never even would have thought that Funk and Lawler would still have a go at it in 2004.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> Promos are nice and all but where's the match? lol. Never even knew, heck, never even would have thought that Funk and Lawler would still have a go at it in 2004.



Pretty sure it was just a live event and wasn't filmed for TV or anything, can't be sure though. I've never found a clip of it ANYWHERE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Damn. Watched Barrett vs Sheamus from April this year again and whew. Even better of a sprint than I thought. What a reaction for the clean victory too. Stellar finish. Now to see if Sheamus vs Cesaro from Payback has it beat. Might find myself questioning things as this RAW sprint was supremely well done. Smoooooth. In the middle of two guys knocking the snot out of each other.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Think I'd have the Payback match, Sheamus/Titus and Sheamus/Cesaro ME from this year beat it just by a tad, I've yet to see Ambrose/Sheamus which I heard was phenomenal


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I actually have yet to watch Sheamus/Titus, what are the STARZ usually thrown around for that?


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

The Hitman said:


> Ive only seen the Bash Jericho/Mysterio match and i fucking love it, what are there other matches, one at ER wasn't there?


Watch the Intercontinental Title match Jericho/Mysterio had on June 15, 2009 episode of Raw. The same episode that had Punk/J. Hardy/Edge triple threat for the World Title which I also recommend.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Clique said:


> Watch the Intercontinental Title match Jericho/Mysterio had on June 15, 2009 episode of Raw. The same episode that had Punk/J. Hardy/Edge triple threat for the World Title which I also recommend.


Thanks mate, think i've tracked it down: 

x9lkkq


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Think I'd have the Payback match, Sheamus/Titus and Sheamus/Cesaro ME from this year beat it just by a tad, I've yet to see Ambrose/Sheamus which I heard was phenomenal







the ending is something to marvel at.



ATF said:


> I actually have yet to watch Sheamus/Titus, what are the STARZ usually thrown around for that?


457 and a fraction


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Sheamus has had an awesome year so far, probably my #3 in the company at this point, although could definitely move up to two depending on how long Bryan is out for.

Cesaro, however, is just on another level. Every match he has had this year I have loved. Dude is not only #1 in WWE this year, but definitely #1 in the World (Although Tomohiro Ishii is giving him a run for his money, and YOSHI HASHI and Bad Luck Fale have improved to out of this world levels).


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

While Sheamus does put on some really good matches, I just really don't care to see any of his matches because of how uninteresting his character. Back in 2011-2012 I was a huge fan because he did stuff. Now, he pretty much doesn't say or do anything. For me to really care to see someone's matches (especially on RAW or SD), that person has to be interesting and have something going on. Right now, he has nothing. It's unfortunate to say, but Cesaro is in the same category as well. They're both just doing nothing.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Sheamus from Raw this year>>>>>>any Sheamus/Cesaro match

That and their Main Event match from last year in May are Barrett's two best matches, and top 5 singles Sheamus matches. The two have unbelievable chemistry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus feels like he's doing the same "stuff" now that he did back in 2011 - 2012. Cut a promo about fighting; then acts on it. It's still working. Say it's even better now b/c the matches are stronger. So much of his 2011 days on Smackdown he was squashing people as they were just waiting for the Rumble to come along. (_no, none of this is a slight on Sheamus or the booking he gets, so piss off w/that junk)_

All of this said w/o touching the point of there being about seven people in the whole of WWE who actually expand past any lazy realm for their character/angles. The (former) Shield, Wyatt's & Danielson whenever he's around. Everyone else is left alone to their small corner of the program. Some just take what they're given and make it work. Like Sheamus.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Need to watch that Sheamus/Barrett match now. Ambrose one is fantastic. After the match with Barrett, gonna check out Payback. I really hope Fella does get a big push one day. I just can't understand why he gets booed every week. Why are people no appreciating the guy?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Sheamus has been one of my favorite WWE wrestlers since he turned face back then. Matter fact, he is/was the first babyface worth of rooting for since Benoit and probably... *HUGE GASP* Jeff Hardy in 2008/09. Just a totally lovable character and a damn good wrestler. If I were a regular WWE watcher, I'd be in full Sheamus mode, no doubt. I've seen only two matches of him this year (w/Christian vs. Real Muricans and vs. Cesaro), and loved both. All this pimping seals it - gonna check the stuff with Barrett (ugh), Tytus (ugh x2), Ambrose and... anything else?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

vs RYBACK from 2/7.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I didn't care much for him as a heel but once he turned face and started working with Henry I was sold. Their Summerslam match kicks ass! Not to mention those matches with Show. NOC is criminally underrated outside of this thread. 

I think the Sheamus hate started with his face turn. a lot of people didn't like how he smiled, they found that he couldn't be taken too seriously and all that other crap. I never had a problem with it. Heck, I always like that about it. It's all fun and games with Sheamus, until he gets in the ring. Speaking of Sheamus in embarrassing comedy sketches, whatever became of 1-800-FELLA. I really liked those.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Nope, not gonna watch that, no matter how awesome Sheamus is. Ryback is where I draw the line, have a mental block against the cocksucker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I too think Ryback most of times sucks, but he does have his share of good singles matches, and the one vs Sheamus is one of them, so really, don't miss out on it just because of your dislike. There's also a decentish match w/Swagger on Raw, and a pretty awesome one w/Christian on SD.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chismo said:


> Nope, not gonna watch that, no matter how awesome Sheamus is. Ryback is where I draw the line, have a mental block against the cocksucker.


Think about the next time you have six minutes to kill and feel like living on the edge.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Chismo said:


> Nope, not gonna watch that, no matter how awesome Sheamus is. Ryback is where I draw the line, have a mental block against the cocksucker.


:lmao

I'm actually intrigued by it. Gonna put that on my list as well.

To Ryback's credit, he's been in a ****1/2 match. To The Shield, Daniel Bryan and Kane's credit, they contributed about four of those stars lol.

There was a point where I really liked DA BIG GUY. But that was mostly because at the time WWE was stirring up some really good Kool-Aid. Once they basically fucked him over with his booking and paired him with Axel, things went south. Still liked his bully character days though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ryback went downhill as soon as he was put in that program with Punk when Cena got injured. He should have gone through the ranks, and I remember it looked like he was going to feud with The Miz over the Intercontinental title (I think Miz was IC champ then) and then Cena got injured and Ryback was slotted in there. He then went on to lose all his PPV matches from Hell in a Cell - Payback until he finally beat Jericho at Money in the Bank. Just killed him.

Anyways, I just re-watched The Shield vs. Sheamus, Ryback and Cena from EC 2013 and that was better than I remembered. Cena does a good job of selling and then the chaos just breaks out at the end, which was always fun with The Shield. Ambrose's mannerisms were awesome here, as usual. I forgot how much Ryback was protected at this time because of his cardio. :lmao He probably wrestled three minutes in this match and that was that, so at least he's worked on his cardio since then.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just watch it, its only 8 minutes iirc and amazing, wont kill you. I just saw you praise Jeff Hardy so you should be accustom to seeing bad matches :kobe3


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Reading that makes me feel like downloading that Shield pack off XWT. What's the best Shield 6 man tag? There's been so many of them, I really can't tell. Shield/Wyatts EC, is the Shield's best match imo. But as for the super-team tags that were booked in the early days, I really don't know which one was their best. Then again, i can't remember them too well which is why I should download the pack lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Skins is just mad Jeff Hardy once beat Dolph Ziggler in three minutes on a RAW in 2009.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Meltzer ratings:

*Takeover:*

Rose vs Camacho: *1/4
Ascension vs El Local/Kalisto: *1/4
Breeze vs Zayn: ***1/2
Charlotte vs Natalya: ****
Neville vs Kidd: ***1/2


*Payback:*

El Torito vs Hornswoggle: **1/2
Sheamus vs Cesaro: ***1/4
Rybaxel vs Rhodes: **1/4
Rusev vs Big E: *1/4
Dallas vs Kingston:
Barrett vs RVD: **1/2
Cena vs Wyatt: ****1/2
Paige vs Fox: **
Shield vs Evolution: ****


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Never forget

It was probably a MITB qualifier too, Vince must of caught tape of it Monday night, saw ADR walking the halls and BOOM


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It was actually an EXTREME RULES match to build for WM. Dolph was moving on up.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> It was actually an EXTREME RULES match to build for WM. Dolph was moving on up.


:lol yea I know, just trying to make a bad joke. I hope ADR puts on a Performance of the year type effort @ MITB. The word "Dolph" and "moving on up" just dont go together


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

sharkboy22 said:


> Reading that makes me feel like downloading that Shield pack off XWT. What's the best Shield 6 man tag? There's been so many of them, I really can't tell. Shield/Wyatts EC, is the Shield's best match imo. But as for the super-team tags that were booked in the early days, I really don't know which one was their best. Then again, i can't remember them too well which is why I should download the pack lol.


The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family from Elimination Chamber.

Second best would be The Shield vs. Ryback & Team Hell No. They're pretty much all great though. From the get go they were all stars - always put on great matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Femto said:


> ***3/4


you still fucking suck



sharkboy22 said:


> Promos are nice and all but where's the match? lol. Never even knew, heck, never even would have thought that Funk and Lawler would still have a go at it in 2004.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Pretty sure it was just a live event and wasn't filmed for TV or anything, can't be sure though. I've never found a clip of it ANYWHERE.


I don't remember anything about 2004 but they had at least three matches in 2003. I can upload them.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I too have a couple from 2003 plus a promo on the Funk comp I've still to get through. 

Yeah has it covered.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus is a lot of things, but likable isn't one of them. If he was so likable, then he would be more over than he is right now. Thank goodness he can have great matches in the midcard because on multiple occasions, he proved that he was just not good enough to be a main eventer despite being handed so much. Regardless, there's no excuse not to watch that super fun Ryback match.

Jeff Hardy semi-rules. Those who praise him are accustomed to watching good matches.

How is Can-Am Express vs. Kikuchi/Kobashi only worthy of ***3/4?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Sheamus can wrestle, but that's it. Where he is right now, in the mid-card, is a perfect spot for him and hopefully that's where he stays. Just arrive, have a good match, leave. Don't need him having terrible feuds in the main event with long segments each night bringing down whatever he's a part of.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> you still fucking suck
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It easily could have been 03. I got that date from Funks book and we all know, as great as that book is, the editing isn't top notch so they could have just had the wrong date. Or I could just be an idiot and he wrote 2003 but I'm remembering 2004. Both scenarios are definitely in play. Are the matches good? I mean assuming the talent involved, they must be good I just haven't hear anyone praise them before. If it isn't a hassle yea I'd like to see atleast one of them if you'd be kind enough to upload it 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus is a lot of things, but likable isn't one of them. If he was so likable, then he would be more over than he is right now. Thank goodness he can have great matches in the midcard because on multiple occasions, he proved that he was just not good enough to be a main eventer despite being handed so much. Regardless, there's no excuse not to watch that super fun Ryback match.
> 
> Jeff Hardy semi-rules. Those who praise him are accustomed to watching good matches.
> 
> How is Can-Am Express vs. Kikuchi/Kobashi only worthy of ***3/4?


I love Sheamus as a wrestler, but yea Sheamus as a face with his character does absolutely nothing for me. Once he gets in the ring it doesn't matter all that much, you can see that in his classic with Show at HiaC how easy it is to get behind him when he's working with a good heel. Character wise though, yeah not a whole lot to like. That's why I've always preferred his heel character, even if his work in the ring MIGHT be better suited as a face. Still, I'd love to see a heel Sheamus take on a face Bryan at some point, we haven't seen them matchup with that dynamic, it could be something really special.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I remember them being good with the best one being pretty awesome. I think it was the first one.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Funk/Lawler in 2011 was also tremendous. Not sure if I've actually seen the '03 match, but I remember Lawler having a match with Kamala at an indy show in '03 that got widespread praise as a tremendous match and one of Lawler's quintessential performances.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I have a hard time believing that Kamala positively contributed to the world of wrestling.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Jesus Christ, when did Konnan get so old?

I too have a hard time believing Kamala was involved in ANYTHING positive, especially if it's in the last decade. :lol



NAITCH said:


> Just watch it, its only 8 minutes iirc and amazing, wont kill you. I just saw you praise Jeff Hardy so you should be accustom to seeing bad matches :kobe3


You know, you call matches amazing an awful lot of time. I'm starting to think you need to go back to using the star ratings system.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Probably gonna watch a 2004 PPV tonight.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Some ratings 

Bryan/Bray RR: ****1/4 
Regal/Benoit NM: ****1/2 

Latter was a first time viewing, good stuff


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's right though. Sheamus vs Ambrose is amazing. Don't need snowflakes to hold what words can say better. wait that was for Sheamus vs Ryback. Fuck it. That's amazing too. Better than most of the PPVs from top to bottom.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Some ratings
> 
> Bryan/Bray RR: ****1/4
> Regal/Benoit NM: ****1/2
> ...



SMITTY SEES THE LIGHT! You're the only one I've seen rate the Regal match almost as high as I do. I'm telling you though dude, if you appreciated that, you've gotta cop the Benoit, The blue bloods, and Finlay comp. Zeppers hooked me up with it and it's just about the best thing ever. Benoit and Regal never fail to blow my mind when they are in the ring, Finlay too for that matter.

If you end up getting in the mood for some more Regal/Benoit goodness, here are 3 other matches worked in a similar way with similarly AMAZING results:

Benoit vs Regal Pillman Memorial Show 2000
Benoit vs Regal Velocity 2005
Benoit vs Regal Velocity 2006 (harder to find but totally worth it)

I'm sure people get tired of me raving about Benoit and Regal all the time, but I really don't care. Words can't express how perfect I think they are as opponents. Benoit vs Regal/Finlay are the only matchups that rival Eddie/Rey as my all time favorite bouts to watch, any day of the week.

Just found this little ditty when someone mentioned how Ishii is having a career year:

www.dailymotion.com/video/x1wmaqj_n...iro-ishii-c-vs-kota-ibushi-njpw-5-25-14_sport

Reccomend this too for anyone needing something to watch


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

On second thought, I found that list where WOOLCOCK possibly had the bright idea of watching the JAPW Kamala/Lawler match. He may be on to something, although I'm more interested in the Lawler/Hennig match from 2002. If Jerry Lawler can somehow get good matches out of 2002 Hennig and 2003 Kamala, then he should be considered the undisputed GOAT. Tis a shame that neither match will manifest itself here.

Randy Orton vs. Undertaker from the 9/16/05 edition of Smackdown is glorious. Orton's subtle heel tactics (DAT LEVERAGE!), Undertaker attacking Orton's left shoulder, caskets, Orton's sell of the tombstone piledriver, those two fools in the crowd cheering for Orton, and everything in between. Undertaker might be the best ever at the babyface comeback.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch every Ishii NEVER Openweight Championship match from this year. The KUSHIDA match from Taiwan is elite.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

When I say a match is amazing it is because it is amazing :lelbron both sheamus match are examples of that. I'll use better wording for the future


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Next matches to be pimped, I'll be sure to only describe them as "resplendent". Give things a little more panache.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I had to look up the meaning of both of those words. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I know Chismo did it first, but I just now watched it so yeah; pimped.

Resplendent.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Tajiri match looks a lot more appealing than the PPV I was considering watching. Well, Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Masters can wait in line.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Next matches to be pimped, I'll be sure to only describe them as "resplendent". Give things a little more panache.


Ohhh we breaking out the vocab now? Watching Sami Zayn in your sig makes me feel vivacious and effervescent. This Brodie Lee/Claudio cage match I just finished contains a prodigious amount of awesome and is superlative in every way. Funnyfaces has a quixotic opinion about how wrestlers should sell in their matches 

Okay I'm done. 

But seriously, I don't think I'm allowed to link to it but it's really easy to find: check out the Brodie Lee/Claudio Cage Match from Chikara. It really is the cats meow. I'd LOVE to see these two brutes duke it out in WWE some day. 


Last thing, for any big time Vader marks out there like yours truly, I can't recommend enough that you go and check out Part 2 of his interview with Stone Cold on the Steve Austin Show. Between that long WCW 1993 time line and the 2+ hours Steve spend interviewing him, it's come to pass that old Leon is now my favorite interview subject of all time. He's just an extremely humble and like able dude. In all these hours of interviews, I haven't heard him say a single negative word about anyone. He even heaps praise on Hulk Hogan and Shawn Michaels, two guys who had a definite negative impact on his career with their backstage politicking. If you have time to kill in the car or in your office, you really should check out both interviews. He an Steve make a captivating team.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm the one who told you to watch the Claudio vs Brodie cage match, chief. 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'm the one who told you to watch the Claudio vs Brodie cage match, chief. 8*D


I worded that wrong, I meant it as a general recommendation/cosign, you and Chismo were pimping it yesterday so I decided to give it a go. It certainly did not dissapoint. I wish WWE were capable of having a good old fashioned bloody struggle in a steel cage every once in a while. No matter though, as long as they are still happening SOMEWHERE in the world, I'm content.

That high spot at the end with Cesaro doing the leaping uppercut off the top of the cage is one of the nuttier things I've ever seen. What a way to end a match.:bow


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My opinions on how wrestlers should sell is not quixotic. Once again, if a guy who did not give a single bit of care about anything he was doing last year managed to sell consistently, why can't the rest of these fools in 2005?

To continue the Tajiri momentum after that resplendent match, there is a Tajiri/Super Calo match from ECW in 1999 out there somewhere. And I know it's cool to hate Tommy Dreamer here, but I remember really liking this Tajiri vs. Dreamer match in 99 where Dreamer destroys Tajiri's balls. Early Tajiri also had an awesome match with Gedo. But here's my contribution for the day.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

oh my @ Cesca/Catanzaro. I enjoyed that quite a bit. Always difficult to judge these type of matches b/c they're such a product of their age, but I did feel a bit of grief over some missed/botched spots and the finish really did nothing for me.

But it was pretty much an exhibition and could've ended any which way it pleased, so I'm not about to argue its demerits b/c of that. Onto things I loved, it felt legitimate i.e. the suspension of disbelief of the viewers is not taken for granted. Every move they perform comes off as realistic grappling/striking. Marked out for the Zidane headbutt the first time Catanzaro used it. Commentary was atrocious though maybe the 60's french like that sort of talk.

Best thing about the match? NO FUCKING IRISH WHIPS. oh lawd that was such a refreshing change. And the story pretty much stays the same throughout the match. They don't work an environment where a blow or a submission to a body part leads to hyperanimated selling. Made the flow much better and kept the fight rolling in its steady state. It also made to feel that the match would be called off for serious injury simply b/c of the way it worked.

ty @ Woolcock



funnyfaces1 said:


> How is Can-Am Express vs. Kikuchi/Kobashi only worthy of ***3/4?


It's an inside joke. But that's honestly what I thought it was (was years ago tho).


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I'm going to upload the three Funk/Lawlers from 2003 unlisted to youtube, but if I post them publicly (like in a thread like this like THIS) they have a risk to be taken down. Anyone who wants them shoot me a message of the private variety (like pm me man PM ME). I can't promise they'll all be uploaded too soon, but I'll tryyyyyyyy to get it done within 24 hours. How's that for big words? I extended ''try''.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> I'm going to upload the three Funk/Lawlers from 2003 unlisted to youtube, but if I post them publicly (like in a thread like this like THIS) they have a risk to be taken down. Anyone who wants them shoot me a message of the private variety (like pm me man PM ME). I can't promise they'll all be uploaded too soon, but I'll tryyyyyyyy to get it done within 24 hours. How's that for big words? I extended ''try''.


YES PLEASE also everyone go watch Angle vs. Wolfe from Turning Point 2009 so :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

PM me so I remember you.  Unless you need more than 10 posts to PM? IDR. I'll send everybody who wants it a return PM with the links.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> PM me so I remember you.  Unless you need more than 10 posts to PM? IDR. I'll send everybody who wants it a return PM with the links.


Sadly I need 25 posts to PM so can you please just PM me the matches please would be awesome thanks Yeah1993


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That's OK, I search my username instead of using the thread subscriptions or ''latest post'' things, so I should see your post and remember.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I know Chismo did it first, but I just now watched it so yeah; pimped.
> 
> Resplendent.


Going to not be a shithead and actually watch this today. I know you don't believe me, and you'd be right to. But it shall come to pass. Witness.



funnyfaces1 said:


> To continue the Tajiri momentum after that resplendent match, there is a Tajiri/Super Calo match from ECW in 1999 out there somewhere. And I know it's cool to hate Tommy Dreamer here, but I remember really liking this Tajiri vs. Dreamer match in 99 where Dreamer destroys Tajiri's balls. Early Tajiri also had an awesome match with Gedo. But here's my contribution for the day.


You need to watch the Mexican Death Match they have from January '00. Tajiri is out of this world great as the insane psychopath with murderous thoughts, almost lost in his own insanity. There's one of the best spots I've ever seen where he attempts to rocket missile a chair at Crazy's head, and it nearly beheads someone in the second row.

If you like Dreamer, you should watch the Regal ECW match from 11/8/09. Goes about nine minutes, but Dreamer has a legit injured shoulder from a prior hardcore match, and Regal just sets about torturing him relentlessly. Dreamer sells expertly, though how much is legit agony and how much is worked selling is up to your interpretation, and the finish is pure Regal.



Femto said:


> oh my @ Cesca/Catanzaro. I enjoyed that quite a bit. Always difficult to judge these type of matches b/c they're such a product of their age, but I did feel a bit of grief over some missed/botched spots and the finish really did nothing for me.
> 
> But it was pretty much an exhibition and could've ended any which way it pleased, so I'm not about to argue its demerits b/c of that. Onto things I loved, it felt legitimate i.e. the suspension of disbelief of the viewers is not taken for granted. Every move they perform comes off as realistic grappling/striking. Marked out for the Zidane headbutt the first time Catanzaro used it. Commentary was atrocious though maybe the 60's french like that sort of talk.
> 
> ...


:mark:

So glad you watched it (Rabid Wolverine you could learn a thing or two here). Agreed on the flow and pacing with which they continually work. Feel like they really mastered the development from matwork to targeting a body part to the eventual strike exchanges, and the speed at which they work is frightening. There's still a sense of struggle and purpose to each exchange and they establish parity by way of communicating the struggle each guy has to escape holds and fight for position. It's probably the best discovery I've ever come across, just because it breaks down every expectation you have about a match from the 60s. What I'd have given for some of these to make it onto tape in WOS, but thankfully more footage is being unearthed now which gives me hope we might eventually stumble onto a great amount of eventual matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> You need to watch the Mexican Death Match they have from January '00. Tajiri is out of this world great as the insane psychopath with murderous thoughts, almost lost in his own insanity. There's one of the best spots I've ever seen where he attempts to rocket missile a chair at Crazy's head, and it nearly beheads someone in the second row.
> 
> If you like Dreamer, you should watch the Regal ECW match from 11/8/09. Goes about nine minutes, but Dreamer has a legit injured shoulder from a prior hardcore match, and Regal just sets about torturing him relentlessly. Dreamer sells expertly, though how much is legit agony and how much is worked selling is up to your interpretation, and the finish is pure Regal.


Way ahead of you as I have already seen every Super Crazy/Tajiri match on this side of Wales, as well as Regal/Dreamer. He never gets his fair share, but I actually think Nunzio had equivalently great chemistry with Tajiri as Super Crazy. Their matches were shorter and tended to be less evenly matched, but Nunzio is awesome at getting his ass kicked and he has to be one of the funniest jobbers ever. Just boatloads of fun.

Since you're the Memphis genius around here, am I the only one that thinks the 85 Lawler/Dundee LLT match is significantly better than the 83 and 86 match? The beginning of the 85 match felt like a war zone from the start, and I loved the story of Lawler's vision being impaired. That drop from the railing to the concrete was insane and I legitimately thought the match would end then and there. And even the stuff with Dundee's wife added to the match. I think I might prefer the Idol cage match and the Mantell match where Dutch wins cleanly over the 85 LLT, but that's a huge "might".

Apparently good ol' Zeb somehow got a good match out of Kevin Sullivan. Is this true?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watched that Super Crazy/Tajiri deathmatch match the other week, that the one that is slightly jipped, right?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Way ahead of you as I have already seen every Super Crazy/Tajiri match on this side of Wales, as well as Regal/Dreamer. He never gets his fair share, but I actually think Nunzio had equivalently great chemistry with Tajiri as Super Crazy. Their matches were shorter and tended to be less evenly matched, but Nunzio is awesome at getting his ass kicked and he has to be one of the funniest jobbers ever. Just boatloads of fun.
> 
> Since you're the Memphis genius around here, am I the only one that thinks the 85 Lawler/Dundee LLT match is significantly better than the 83 and 86 match? The beginning of the 85 match felt like a war zone from the start, and I loved the story of Lawler's vision being impaired. That drop from the railing to the concrete was insane and I legitimately thought the match would end then and there. And even the stuff with Dundee's wife added to the match. I think I might prefer the Idol cage match and the Mantell match where Dutch wins cleanly over the 85 LLT, but that's a huge "might".
> 
> Apparently good ol' Zeb somehow got a good match out of Kevin Sullivan. Is this true?


Nunzio is always good and fun to watch from anything of his I've seen. Watch Tajiri vs Nunzio vs Crazy from April '00. Might be the best triple threat I've seen given my dislike for the match style in general, yet they just absolutely tear each other apart, you've got a great Tajiri performance but Nunzio and Crazy more than put in their fair share. Just 100mph bonkers stuff and absolutely riveting.

I think the '85 LLT is the best match from Memphis and one of the best matches in US history personally, so I'm in agreement there. The eye angle and Dundee's exploitation of it is amazing, with his boxing stances and constantly moving into Lawler's blind spot and sucker punching him. Of course during this you've got Lawler selling the eye injury and the punches, in addition to Dundee's dickhead act and the great punches he's throwing, so it's all excellent. Then you have Dundee pinballing around for Lawler's offence, and again the dynamic is incredible as Lawler is as good on offence as Dundee is selling for him. The aforementioned railing bump is insane and Lawler sauntering down the aisle afterwards feels like a monster just refusing to be put down, and the reaction it gets is incredible. 

I truthfully can't recall a Dutch/Sullivan match, so afraid I can't help there.



The Hitman said:


> Watched that Super Crazy/Tajiri deathmatch match the other week, that the one that is slightly jipped, right?


It could be, I haven't watched it since last year for the 00's poll. They had two or three matches from that period that I saw, and they all went about the same length so I won't say with certainty because I could be mistaken. If it's the match where Tajiri launches a chair on the table where Crazy's head is then it's the Mexican Death Match.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Anyone got a link to the Crazy/Tajiri deathmatch?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Going to not be a shithead and actually watch this today. I know you don't believe me, and you'd be right to. But it shall come to pass. Witness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have that match dialed up as we speak. My phone is on silent and on the charger. My girlfriend is nowhere in site. Unless Satan comes to earth and judgement day is upon us, nothing will stop me from watching this match. I'll post my thoughts as soon as I'm done 


Edit:

Okay I just finished it. Normally when I write reviews, I have this little note pad I'll jot down bullet points of things that catch my eye, things I like, things I don't like, etc while watching the match. I'll wait till the opponents are both knocked down or using a rest hold and write quickly so I don't miss anything. That didn't work here, I managed to jot down three measly bullet points in the first five minutes then spent the rest of the match completely engrossed. There wasn't even any lag points in the match that I could have used to write if I wanted to. All I managed to write was "Holy reverse suplex counter batman" "Head scissor counters good lord" and "THAT KNUCKLE LOCK SEQUENCE!" Again, that was just for the first 5 minutes of a 30 minute match. There were so many amazing, jaw dropping counters and sequences that I literally lost count. Funnyfaces posted a clip from a match that has a 30 second sequence of some of the most amazing chain wrestling I've ever witnessed. This was an entire match filled with those sort of sequences, just I'm shorter bursts instead of a long drawn out 30 second blitz of counters. I can't even begin to tell you how many variations of a head scissors counter I saw. I saw power bombs, suplexes, even an Irish whip, all in a match from the freaking 1960s. I can say without any shadow of a doubt, if Bryan and Cesaro some how managed to work that same match in front of a 2014 WWE crowd, it would get over like a million bucks. This isn't a boring Lou Thesz submission fest. It's hold after hold, counter after counter, with nary 30 seconds going by without someone doing something to try and gain the upper hand, for a full 30 minutes.

Only gripes I can possibly come up with: finish was sort of anticlimactic, but it's a 1960s match so that's to be expected. Then about 3/4 of the way through the camera man becomes fascinated with he ref and films the ref walking in circles for over a minute instead of shooting the action. And finally, both guys appear to look like midgets for some reason. If they are actually little people, then I'm just an idiot. They appear to be normal sized humans who are distorted through a camera lense. Other than that, not one single thing about this match failed to impress me.

Awesome, awesome stuff Mr. WOOLCOCK. Kudos to your sir for finding such an incredible match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Vengeance 2004*

Been about 6 weeks since I last did one of these rambles. Hope this has a couple of good matches so I'm not coming back to a shitty PPV .


*The Coach & Garrison Cade Vs Tajiri & Rhyno*

So the first match involves The Coach and Garrison Cade? Hopefully Tajiri and Rhyno can offset the awfulness lol.

:lmao Coach acts all cocky and decides to start the match off... so RHYNO gets in the ring with him, and Coach pretty much shats himself and begs Cade to tag in :lmao.

Slow start, then Cade gets angry and slaps Rhyno. He fucking SLAPS RHYNO. Methinks that may have been a mistake. Rhyno fucking unloads on poor Cade with huge rights to the face. Cade gets in a knee to the gut, and Rhyno staggers back for a moment, then screams and fires back with moar shots to the face :mark:.

TAJIRI TAGS IN :mark:. KICKS COACH ON THE APRON :mark:.

Heels gain control and Coach starts to work over TAJIRI. He's mostly ok, I mean, all things considering, Coach is better than a lot of the current roster :lmao. Looks a little awkward doing certain moves but he's far from bad.

Coach mocks Tajiri by bowing down, after slamming him to the mat... so Tajiri kicks him in the face when he's bent over :mark:. Someone needs to make a super comp of nothing but Tajiri kicking people. I'd buy a 3 disc Bluray set of nothing but that!

HOT TAG~! Rhyno cleans house, then Tajiri makes a blind tag and ignores Cade, instead going right after Coach. 

MIST TO CADE~! Tajiri was aiming for Coach but he moved.

GORE TO CADE~! Rhyno was aiming for Coach but he moved. :lmao

KICK TO COACH~! Coach couldn't avoid that, and this is done.

Fun tag to start things off. TAJIRI. RHYNO. Hell, I'm becoming a bit of a Coach mark tbh lol. He was solid in the ring, lots of charisma, played a pretty good heel and got heat. What more do you want? 

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Evolution are backstage. Everyone looks confused and worried about the Eugene situation, and demand answers from HHH. HHH has Eugene tagging with Flair tonight for the tag belts I think, lol. They end up arguing over whose turn it was to watch Eugene :lmao. Turns out Benoit is talking to Eugene, trying to explain that Evolution are using him. Christ, good luck explaining that to a retard .


*Chris Jericho Vs Batista*

Sweet jebus is this boring lol. Batista works the back of Jericho, and well, he just sits in a couple of different holds for 10 minutes until they pick up the pace going into a finish.

Lionsault is kinda botched lol. Jericho lands it but Batista was supposed to get his knees up... and he does... but Jericho still lands on Batista WHILE his knees are up... just not up where they can HIT Jericho :lmao.

Powerbomb. Jericho foot is on ropes. Ref doesn't see. Match is over. I wasted 10 minutes on this. Wasn't awful, just dull as fuck.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


MOAR Evolution backstage. Eugene walks in all upset after his conversation with Benoit. HHH uses the fact he heard their conversation to further manipulate him. HHH. Manipulating a retard. And he still ends up getting outsmarted :lmao.

HHH has a surprise for Eugene. It's a Flair robe. :lmao at the look on Flair when he hands it over.


*La Resistance Vs Ric Flair & Eugene - World Tag Team Championship Match*

No way can I sit through this :lmao.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Kane Vs Matt Hardy - No DQ Match*

Well this had potential to be a fun fight. Plus, LITA FAP FAP likely at ringside :mark:.

Oh man, the build up to this match :lmao. LITA IS CARRYING KANE'S BABY SO SHE CAN'T MARRY MATT HARDY :lmao. Someone was watching a soap before coming to work that week...

A year later and in real life, Lita and Matt would break up because she was slutting it up with Edge. HOW DID MATT NOT SEE THAT COMING AFTER THIS?!?! 8*D .

:lmao Hardy punches Kane and HE'S the one that falls down :lmao.

Hardy is wasting no time here anyway. Jumps Kane at the start, punches him over and over, then smashes him in the head with a monitor. Then Hardy ends up taking a pretty sweet bump off the announce table into the barricade :mark:. FUN BRAWL so far! Just what I was hoping for .

Kane puts a pretty good beating on Hardy, and Matt takes a few nasty looking bumps too. He's always overshadowed by Jeff when it comes to being a risk taker in the ring, but Matt takes a bunch of nutty bumps and takes them well and deserves to be noticed.

Kane gets shit on every now and then, and I guess I can see why at times. Sometimes he's good, sometimes he's just not lol. But he also should be recognised for taking some of the shots he takes, mainly from weapons. The early shot to the face with the monitor looked full on, and Hardy just smashed him in the face with the ring bell and Kane didn't look like he protected shit.

YEY LITA :mark:. She runs down (bouncy bouncy) to protect Matt from being mauled by Kane and the ring steps. Kane drops them because he doesn't want to risk his baby getting hurt. He sends Lita out of the ring, grabs the steps again... and Hardy smashes a chair into them! Kane drops, the stairs drop on his head and MATT WINS!!

Yeah, fun brawl. hard hitting, some great shots from both men. I liked.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Randy Orton Vs Edge - Intercontinental Championship Match*

Hmmm... this match has me interested. They've had some up and down chemistry over the years. Some shite matches, and some really good ones. This one is a match I remember being really good, but I also remember it having a bunch of HEADLOCK SPOTS. Interested to see how I feel about it today.

HUGE "let's go Orton" chants. And he's the heel :lmao. YOU SUCK, EDGE!

Oh look, they are both doing that criss-cross ropes run thing. For absolutely NO REASON. I hate that spot. Unless it's part of a comedy routine in a match (which usually isn't good either, but whatever), it just makes both guys look retarded. Wasting energy running up and down for no reason whatsoever. Morons.

Orton's leaving! Yey!!!

Edge is bringing him back! Booo!!!

Ha, Orton is doing those clubs to the chest in the ropes that Sheamus does!

Orton applying a hold to Edge. Yep, applying a hold. Not sat in a rest hold! I miss the days when people would do that. You know, work a hold. He's cranking on the arm and twisting Edge's neck and looking like he's actually trying to hurt the guy AND make him tap, rather than sitting there wasting time.

:mark: Orton takes one hell of a bump off a baseball slide, where he launches himself backwards and ends up smashing the side of his face into the side of the announce table. Edge is getting in some offence and putting Orton in trouble, and the fans are firmly behind Orton still :lmao.

SPEAR ATTEMPT~! COUNTERED WITH A KICK TO THE FACE~! HA~!

And now a "let's go Edge" chant. MAKE UP YOUR FUCKING MINDS DAMMIT!!! 

Fucks sake lol, they've switched back to "let's go Orton" :lmao. He plays it up well being a heel, telling them he doesn't need their help, and goes back to mauling Edge's neck.

Here comes the HEADLOCKS~! And man oh man they look WONDERFUL. Orton is WORKING them like a pro, and it makes perfect sense for him to use it too since he's been targeting that neck of Edge. So happy that the headlocks hold up lol. I was worried that they'd end up like rest holds and my younger self was stupid. BUT I WASN'T SO HA. 

:mark: Edge tried to rake Orton's eyes to escape the headlock, but Orton manages to avoid it and BITES HIS FINGERS instead :mark:.

They do the old "3 arm drop and this is over" spot... and EDGE'S ARM DROPS THREE TIMES... but the match isn't over. Because uhhh... he got it up after it dropped? Or because it dropped on Orton rather than the mat? I dunno lol.

Oh man, they have one hell of a finishing stretch. Some great near falls, without overusing bigger moves/finishers. In the end Edge picks up the win and is the new IC champ.

Man, I fucking enjoyed this. Orton looked tremendous in it, as he often did during this time. WORKING those headlocks makes me so :mark: inside lol. Edge was fine, he didn't do anything bad, but Orton was the clear standout of the match for me. Held up extremely well!

Wow, just noticed that the match was over 25 minutes long! That fucking FLEW by. Awesome.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


*Victoria Vs Molly Holly - WWE Women's Championship Match*

NO.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Chris Benoit Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Oh man, the build up to this match. HHH is trying to win back the WHC with the help of a RETARD :lmao.

They start out trading basic wrestling holds; headlock takeovers etc, with HHH trying to show Benoit up, then Benoit coming back and doing the same thing to HHH but faster and better. So HHH decides to use his superior power to try and cancel out the superior wrestling ability of the champ. How does that turn out?

CROSSFACE~! 

KNEE TO THE FACE~! And that allows HHH to begin his control segment. Love Benoit during HHH's control segment a hell of a lot more than HHH lol. He bumps tremendously to make HHH's offence look DEADLY, and I always enjoy how Benoit keeps fighting no matter what, always managing to get in some chops here and there at the very least, making HHH WORK for that control.

Hell even when Benoit starts mounting offence, he looks like he has to FIGHT for everything he gets. Something he likely brings out in people, because he does it to them so he expects it right back. One of the things that made Benoit so damn good. Say what you will about him, but the Mr Kennedy shoot interview is a great watch and him talking about Benoit in the ring is great to listen to as he talks about how Benoit works and always makes you fight for everything.

BRET HART TURNBUCKLE SPOT~! Love that spot. Bret did it wonderfully, and Benoit might have done it better than I've ever seen Bret do it here. TWICE. He just runs full on into the turnbuckle and screams in pain like it was the most brutal thing ever. And you can believe it hurt like fuck too because of the speed he went into the damn thing. A very simple but super effective spot.

After those two spots, HHH begins to work over the chest of Benoit, and I love how he sets up a vertical suplex, but switches it up and throws Benoit forward and down on his chest. Smart work, and great looking move too, once again because of how Benoit takes it and sells it.

We get some more of HHH applying holds to wear down Benoit, and Benoit does his awesome selling and constantly trying to fight back, and manages to lock in the same holds to HHH after escaping them, but never being able to do much with them because he's too hurt to hold HHH in position. Good stuff!

SHARPSHOOTER~!

Maybe I'm looking too much into this whole thing lol (as I tend to do sometimes  ), but I love the idea of Benoit trying to use the same holds as HHH to inflict punishment on him as he received, but because of his injury HHH would always counter... but the Sharpshooter allowed Benoit to basically just SIT on HHH and apply the pressure to hurt him and allow Benoit to recover a little and get back into this match.

Fuck me, that was a STUNNING looking suicide dive from Benoit. No surprise that he's good at that, I guess :side:.

REF BUMP~! HHH calls for Eugene to come out, but before HHH can get him to do anything, Benoit locks in the Crossface! He screams at Eugene to get the referee but Eugene is conflicted. HHH taps! Still no ref... and Eugene looks like he's gonna get in the ring instead and help HHH... so Benoit DECKS HIM :lmao. Benoit is upset that he had to do it, and allows HHH to hit a low blow and Pedigree!

Eugene rolls the referee back in and... KICK OUT~! BENOIT KICKS OUT~!

STEEL CHAIR~! BUT EUGENE TRIES TO TAKE IT AWAY~! HHH KNOCKS DOWN EUGENE~!

Holy shit lol, Benoit just kinda runs into HHH and decks him in the face... with the chair in front of it . Almost like he clotheslined the chair into his face. Looked awesome.

Man, as great as this match has been, the finishing stretch is fucking me off . Eugene. Then Eugene. More Eugene. A steel chair. Evolution run in. Followed by Eugene and a chair. Well, sort of. He has the chair, then spends an hour trying to decide who to hit, before giving up. Benoit tries to fight him for the chair, and in the end Eugene accidentally smashes it in HHH's face :lmao. Roll up, and Benoit retains lol.

Yeah, great match. HHH worked a smart match and Benoit looked like the greatest worker ever during it all. The Eugene stuff at the finish bothers me, mainly because they over used him. Instead of just coming down and doing the chair spot, they tease him doing shit for like 5 minutes in multiple situations and in the end you just want him to fuck off .

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10*​


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Okay I just finished it. Normally when I write reviews, I have this little note pad I'll jot down bullet points of things that catch my eye, things I like, things I don't like, etc while watching the match. I'll wait till the opponents are both knocked down or using a rest hold and write quickly so I don't miss anything. That didn't work here, I managed to jot down three measly bullet points in the first five minutes then spent the rest of the match completely engrossed. There wasn't even any lag points in the match that I could have used to write if I wanted to. All I managed to write was "Holy reverse suplex counter batman" "Head scissor counters good lord" and "THAT KNUCKLE LOCK SEQUENCE!" Again, that was just for the first 5 minutes of a 30 minute match. There were so many amazing, jaw dropping counters and sequences that I literally lost count. Funnyfaces posted a clip from a match that has a 30 second sequence of some of the most amazing chain wrestling I've ever witnessed. This was an entire match filled with those sort of sequences, just I'm shorter bursts instead of a long drawn out 30 second blitz of counters. I can't even begin to tell you how many variations of a head scissors counter I saw. I saw power bombs, suplexes, even an Irish whip, all in a match from the freaking 1960s. I can say without any shadow of a doubt, if Bryan and Cesaro some how managed to work that same match in front of a 2014 WWE crowd, it would get over like a million bucks. This isn't a boring Lou Thesz submission fest. It's hold after hold, counter after counter, with nary 30 seconds going by without someone doing something to try and gain the upper hand, for a full 30 minutes.
> 
> Only gripes I can possibly come up with: finish was sort of anticlimactic, but it's a 1960s match so that's to be expected. Then about 3/4 of the way through the camera man becomes fascinated with he ref and films the ref walking in circles for over a minute instead of shooting the action. And finally, both guys appear to look like midgets for some reason. If they are actually little people, then I'm just an idiot. They appear to be normal sized humans who are distorted through a camera lense. Other than that, not one single thing about this match failed to impress me.
> 
> Awesome, awesome stuff Mr. WOOLCOCK. Kudos to your sir for finding such an incredible match.


:hb

Seeing a Ganso Bomb in the first half of the match completely knocked me for six. Absolutely incredible matwork aided by subtle and nuanced touches to make the mind-blowing sequences have meaning and build. Some of the stuff they do I don't think I've seen replicated since, and there were far too many instances where I gave up trying to explain/describe some of the holds they were executing. Usually I only have that difficulty in Volk Han and ***** Navarro matches. I also thought the uppercut sequence was possibly the best extended strike exchange I can recall seeing, and again the escalation and timing of that sequence succeeds in making it mean so much more, instead of coming off as egregious.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I first saw that Edge/Orton match when I got (downloaded) Edge's DVD. I remember loving it but I know it gets mixed reactions. I've only seen it once and that was way back in 2010. Will check out some time once I get the chance.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another great review and CAL is finally back here.  Glad to see you enjoyed the double main events. Although the main event went down for me a bit last time because of too much Eugene and I felt the match was a bit too slow in spots.

Where can I find this Kennedy shoot interview btw? Cjack said something to me about Benoit making opponents fight for control and Kennedy mentioning something about a suplex while wrestling Benoit in an interview so I'm interested in this.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It'll be online somewhere I'm sure. XWT or PWT or something. I have it on disc. The bit with Kennedy and the suplex is where he talks about how Benoit would call a spot, like the suplex, but wouldn't just LET you do the move. You have to smack him in the ribs or give him a knee or something, rather than him just standing there waiting for the move to be done.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

All this talk of heel work recently so what the hell thought I'd watch Judgement Day 05

Hardcore Holly/Hass vs MNM: I honestly forgot MNM existed. (was quickly reminded by Melina's entrance but that is another discussion.) To their credit though now that I remember, they did face some very high profiled wrestlers. As for the match itself, The pacing was fine, Charlie Hass put in an ok performance looking impressive at first and I enjoyed the arm psychology but fizzled out after that failed armdrag to the outside which would've been sweet. Morrison (or as he was called here Johnny Nitro) was somewhat sloppy and uncaptivating which really shows how much he would grow later on. Hardcore Holly to my surprise was the act to garner the second biggest reaction of the night behind Eddie's heat. Classic pros/cons of Holly with crisp chops and a beautiful dropkick but shitty, cartoonish selling if he did or no selling otherwise. Finish was just a cookie cutter finish. Decent opener **1/2

Carlito vs the Big Show: Enjoyed Carlito's antics in here and he did bump alot for Show and gave Show some good selling, but this was nothing more than a quick cat mouse game punctuated by a forced ref bump leading into a shitty executed but impressively lifted F5 from Morgan to Show. Not atrocious, but not worth a star either. 

Chavo vs Paul London: Match as a whole wasn't that good and Chavo has had considerably better matches, but this was one of Chavo's stronger individual efforts. Chavo came out with the aggression expected out of a man wanting his title back, then diverged into heavy psychology use targeting the ribs and sticking with it. Hell, London went for Chavo's leg and Chavo sold long term effects of the attack. London didn't land his offense plush at all though, which eliminated the endurance trait attempted to be given to London through this match. Another cookie cutter finish. Chavo's performance makes this match earn a couple stars in my book. **

Kurt Angle vs Booker T: On paper, this sounds like it could be a good contest, but as the obviously story set up by the build with creeper Angle in full force unfolded, I just didn't feel like Booker's attempt at relaying aggression and anger was genuine. This match was well actually pretty dry, which was a bit of a surprise to me seeing how Angle usually finds a way to keep things exciting and Booker up against marquee opponents always pulled some tricks out of his moveset that he saves up. I thought the scissors kick spilling Angle to the outside would've been a cool false finish, but the "big moment" was kind of dilluded by Booker's following offense. Booker T in WWE had a tendency to telegraph his major offense, and that showed here again. The finish was a cool idea, but sometimes we understate the importance of the referee for ensuring a finish works, and I felt like the ref took a relatively poor angle, an awkward count and the finish was somewhat tarnished to where commentary wasn't even sure and the bell hesitated to ring. I could see where someone else might have enjoyed this match, but to me Booker T was going to make or break this match, and the match fell flat. *1/2

EG vs Rey: HERE WE GO. I knew this match wouldn't fall flat because come on it is Rey vs callous heel Eddie coming in with a build that set up a story for the ring but not a restricting one. Boy this didn't sink. Match starts out with a fight just as Rey had asked for. Eddie of course gets the upper hand and proceeds to land fists with such a cold expression on his face that once again brought out Eddie's trademark of eliciting any emotion needed to the audience through facial expression. This cold motherfucker kicked Rey's ass and didn't crack a damn smile until ramming poor, small Rey Mysterio into the announce table multiple times and afterwards didn't diverge from his cold expression unless he was wrenching with a submission. Everything from Guerrero much like his heel work in WCW was delivered with a crisp intensity be it the sick reverse powerbomb delivered with a thud, the high angle back suplex that I feel Eddie did better than anyone in the business or even the wrenching of his submissions. Rey's offense was well timed and firey to accomplish Rey's two goals of being sympathetic and when attacking giving hope to the audience and sticking with the fight premise. 

Usually, DQ finishes dissolve the match, but in this case it worked perfectly to highlight the vicious callousness of Eddie Guerrero who in an amazing promo prior advised Rey not to show up to Judgement Day. Eddie's character gave no care about winning, rather pain, and as Eddie slowly exited, one of the more remarkable transformations I have ever seen as a longtime studier and lover of the craft was cemented. We are talking a man who not through the hype machine/manufactured means but on pure ability to portray and elicit emotion went from being alongside Bryan the most over babyface since Rock/Austin to outside of Hassan and depending on the building JBL getting at the time the largest amount of heat. This wasn't as flashy or revolutionary as other EG/Rey bouts, but damn this was good for what needed to be done. **** 1/4. 

Jordan vs Michael Cole's personal space violator whose friends he pulls from the audience: Sub-paron paper, sub-par in the ring. Low expectation, low results. No idea what to rate this if it even deserves a rating. 

JBL vs Cena: I have never heard banter on this match but would imagine it is polarizing , as with much of Cena's hardcore matches. I thoughit the match was average. JBL gave a good performance and some of Cena's selling was actually good, but psychologically, some of JBL's offense didn't make much sense and Cena's selling of getting choked was abysmal. Cena's hardcore offense in this one would've been much more impactful if done better. For instance, the 'tv' that JBL was put through I don't even think had the screen in and wheras it would've been a good visual if JBL went head first through the window, JBL took that bump with the shoulder, which given the meatier area softened the impact, which smart on his part but going towards a devastating move wasn't good. As it sat, I didn't think the Cena offense warranted an I Quit from JBL, especially when we saw him slither away from imo worse beatings when he was champion. Now if those two spots would've been done right and some more offense was given, this may be different, but I can only go off what was there. This match was an instance of little things making a big difference and what could've turned a decent match into a good one **1/2. 

Overall, Eddie/Rey delivered the goods in a great match and there were some good individual efforts but as a whole, pretty weak card from a match standpoint in my opinion.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

^Lowest rating I've ever seen for Cena/JBL that's not their WM match.






Man this never gets old. I just love these underdog performances. Next up, Maddox vs Orton.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> :hb
> 
> Seeing a Ganso Bomb in the first half of the match completely knocked me for six. Absolutely incredible matwork aided by subtle and nuanced touches to make the mind-blowing sequences have meaning and build. Some of the stuff they do I don't think I've seen replicated since, and there were far too many instances where I gave up trying to explain/describe some of the holds they were executing. Usually I only have that difficulty in Volk Han and ***** Navarro matches. I also thought the uppercut sequence was possibly the best extended strike exchange I can recall seeing, and again the escalation and timing of that sequence succeeds in making it mean so much more, instead of coming off as egregious.


I know what you mean man. For me to accurately describe some of those counters they did, I'd need a hi definition slow motion replay at about 1/4 speed, plus a wrestling dictionary and a magnifying glass. They were unreal, and the fluidity was something I have never, ever seen before. It's almost like those two guys have some ESP brain link going on and they just KNEW what the opponent was going for and were able to flow through 5-6 counters in a row with nary a hiccup. Impeccable match.



Choke2Death said:


> Another great review and CAL is finally back here.  Glad to see you enjoyed the double main events. Although the main event went down for me a bit last time because of too much Eugene and I felt the match was a bit too slow in spots.
> 
> Where can I find this Kennedy shoot interview btw? Cjack said something to me about Benoit making opponents fight for control and Kennedy mentioning something about a suplex while wrestling Benoit in an interview so I'm interested in this.





#ROOT said:


> It'll be online somewhere I'm sure. XWT or PWT or something. I have it on disc. The bit with Kennedy and the suplex is where he talks about how Benoit would call a spot, like the suplex, but wouldn't just LET you do the move. You have to smack him in the ribs or give him a knee or something, rather than him just standing there waiting for the move to be done.



Pretty much what Cal said. I saw the Kennedy interview on YT several months ago, but Bob Holly also mentions it in his book and I know for a fact I've seen it elsewhere. Can't remember if it was the Kennedy interview or what, but I distinctly remember one guy talking about the first time he wrestled Benoit and he said "He called a suplex for me so I go to give it to him, and he just hauls off and starts punching me in the face and ribs. I didn't know what to make of it so I started fighting back and then Benoit said "what the fuck are you doing I said suplex!" So I went to do it again, and again he just started punching and beating the shit out of me. We locked up and I said "what's your problem man?" And he said "are you gonna give me that suplex or am I going to have to keep kicking your ass all night?"

Now, that's not a word for word transcript, but that's pretty much the gist of what the guy said in the interview. With Benoit it was just understood you had to fight his ass every step of the way to get a move in, especially if you were a newer guy with less credibility than Chris. I think that's one oft he biggest reasons Benoit scarcely ever had a flat out bad match. How can a match be bad when you are atleast getting to see two dudes who appear to be fighting for real? Another thing I always loved about Benoit was the sound effects he'd give during match. His grunts and labored breathing always made it seem like shit was a bit more real, like everything was really hurting him or he was really doing his damnedest to inflict punishment on his opponent.

I could go on and on all day about why Benoit was so great but that's not necessary. I'll see if I can dig up the Kennedy interview for you.


By the way: Great to see you back Cal and in top form as always. That was a great review, you haven't gotten rusty with your time away . I don't remember a single thing about any of the Vengeace 2004 matches other than Eugene ruining the last 10 minutes of the main event. I'm gonna have to give Orton/Edge and Hunter/Benoit a rewatch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I could sing the praises of Benoit's "sound-effects" all day. He's so easy to root for when he's working from under and breathing heavily. Like the Austin match from SD when Austin shoves the title in his face in the corner and he looks so hopeless which makes his comeback a minute later that much sweeter. And his yelling when chopping somebody? :mark: for it every time. He didn't even need to do it because the sound of the chop always echoed throughout the arena and sometimes even made the referee flinch. (like that Al Snow ECW match)

Hope you can find the Kennedy shoot soon. Summer break has started so I have plenty of free time again. It will be something to watch for tonight as I'm now heading off to the gym to punish my legs some more.  (I have PMs disabled atm so either rep or post it in this thread)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Anyone got a link to the Crazy/Tajiri deathmatch?


xc3t82


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

[HIDE="25"]http://www.wrestlingforum.com/megaposts/594110-super-crazy-vs-yoshihiro-tajiri.html[/HIDE]

Check if these still work.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I could sing the praises of Benoit's "sound-effects" all day. He's so easy to root for when he's working from under and breathing heavily. Like the Austin match from SD when Austin shoves the title in his face in the corner and he looks so hopeless which makes his comeback a minute later that much sweeter. And his yelling when chopping somebody? :mark: for it every time. He didn't even need to do it because the sound of the chop always echoed throughout the arena and sometimes even made the referee flinch. (like that Al Snow ECW match)
> 
> Hope you can find the Kennedy shoot soon. Summer break has started so I have plenty of free time again. It will be something to watch for tonight as I'm now heading off to the gym to punish my legs some more.  (I have PMs disabled atm so either rep or post it in this thread)


Check your rep brother I THINK I sent you the right Kennedy interview, I'm on my phone I don't have time to check it.

WrestlingOracle: great review dude, I gave Cena/JBL **** I actually really liked it tbh. But I love your write up of Eddie/Rey, you nailed Eddies character at the time perfectly, and I happen to agree completely with what you said about what made Eddie so special.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moyes' Hot Cross Buns said:


> Going to not be a shithead and actually watch this today. I know you don't believe me, and you'd be right to. But it shall come to pass. Witness.


Been 12 hours or so since this was said. Well...8*D

Also I'm gonna try and position this to be added as a gif/smiley thingy:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Been 12 hours or so since this was said. Well...8*D
> 
> Also I'm gonna try and position this to be added as a gif/smiley thingy:



I read somewhere that after that amazing Zayn/Cesaro match at Arrival, Hunter pulled Zayn aside in gorilla and said something to the effect of "you don't ever have to prove anything to anyone after that match. That was absolutely incredible". Man oh man, I cannot wait until he gets his big call up. I think they might now realize exactly what they have with him so they are saving him until they get a big spot for him. Atleast that's what I sincerely hope they are doing. If he gets the textbook "just another NXT guy" call up I'll be so dissapointed. I've been watching a ton of Generico lately, he and Cesaro and Bryan are the 3 current WWE guys I enjoy watching more than any other.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Been 12 hours or so since this was said. Well...8*D


There's still time :side:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I read somewhere that after that amazing Zayn/Cesaro match at Arrival, Hunter pulled Zayn aside in gorilla and said something to the effect of "you don't ever have to prove anything to anyone after that match. That was absolutely incredible". Man oh man, I cannot wait until he gets his big call up. I think they might now realize exactly what they have with him so they are saving him until they get a big spot for him. Atleast that's what I sincerely hope they are doing. If he gets the textbook "just another NXT guy" call up I'll be so dissapointed. I've been watching a ton of Generico lately, he and Cesaro and Bryan are the 3 current WWE guys I enjoy watching more than any other.


There's a clip on youtube as well of Hero commenting on Heyman's reaction to watching Cesaro/Zayn 2/3 falls. When Zayn hits the through the turnbuckle DDT, Heyman supposedly stopped talking and just stared at the screen until the finish, before rushing to gorilla to congratulate them both when they made their way to the back.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm confident at his career in WWE being one that is already racked w/potential. Normally I wouldn't be so optimistic about anything in WWE, but after what he's been given for the year he's just been on NXT, I think they know. Look at all of the other hot properties they have and have been successful up until this point. The track record is looking good. Even for those - say like a Luke Harper - who were just put in an angle/group almost on a whim. He's won tons of fans over & going by his status on TV atm, apparently the company too. Zayn continues to receive praise backstage w/no shenanigans attatched. I'll gladly admit I'm sure he'll be lined up for proper use. That's why those who are wanting him to be called up right now need to realize the wait is smart. Let 'em take their time w/him. A good sign in my eyes.

Watched the Hero story about Heyman whenever it leaked. Too great.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> **** hidden content ****
> 
> Check if these still work.


So can send the match or?


----------



## Fletcher Reede (Jun 4, 2014)

nevermind, my n'ers.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I expect Zayn to debut around summerslam 

Bout to rewatch that arrival match 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I read somewhere that after that amazing Zayn/Cesaro match at Arrival, Hunter pulled Zayn aside in gorilla and said something to the effect of "you don't ever have to prove anything to anyone after that match. That was absolutely incredible".


Are you talking about this:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

AwesomeBatman101 said:


> So can send the match or?


Funk/Lawler? They're uploading now. One of them might take 5 hours.........:lmao Could be a while before they're all done. The thing I posted there were ECW matches (somebody was asking for Tajiri/Super Crazy) and I thought posting them in public might get them taken down (if they still work, it's mediafire so it actually could) so I did the hidden post thing. Not sure if that helps anything but I like be thorough sometimes and have gotten paranoid about good wrestling being removed from easy access.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

> Where can I find this Kennedy shoot interview btw? Cjack said something to me about Benoit making opponents fight for control and Kennedy mentioning something about a suplex while wrestling Benoit in an interview so I'm interested in this.


Speaking of a fellow wrestler speaking about one of your favorite wrestlers...I was listening to an interview with Goldust from 2012.


He was asked which wrestler he would most want to work with, and he named Cody and then said:


> *Goldust*: Randy Orton. Because he is without a doubt, I mean...his movements and his fluidity and his charisma is unreal. I want to touch that, I want to see what that feels like with him, and see if him and I have got the chemistry that I think we might. It would be really cool to work a 15-20 minute match with him. It'd be awesome.


Kind of funny that he said that in early 2012, and then in his first match back in 2013, it ended up being against Randy Orton. He got his wish.

Also nice to see yet another worker like Goldust, respect Orton so much.

I want to go watch that Orton/Goldust match again now. I really liked it at the time.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Well, he wasn't wrong as their Raw match was excellent and they certainly had the chemistry. Just about every wrestler I've seen talk about Orton has praised his talents. Makes me laugh when I read some of the shit the morons on the 'net write about how Orton is a failure with no charisma and only became a main eventer because Vince has some weird boner for him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> Are you talking about this:



I had never actually seen that before but yes that must have been what the article I read was talking about. That's really, really cool seeing that Zayn is one of Hunters "guys". I don't think there is a better man to have in your corner at the moment than Hunter, considering he will be running the show for years to come. Then again, you'd literally have to be either blind, stupid, or no absolutely nothing about wrestling to not see that Zayn is truly a special performer. There isn't anyone else like him in the world, there really hasn't been anyone like him before. Sure some of the things he does remind me of Steamboat and Rey at times, but the complete picture is so much different than either of them. He's a complete original in that regard. And he hasn't even debuted on the main roster yet.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Thought I'd share my thoughts on Cesca/Catanzaro: IT FRICKIN' RULED~! Old-school, hold for hold exchanges that are worked _tight/I] - nothin' better :lenny Love seeing spots/counters/sequences from matches that old that are still used regularly today - the backslide countered to top wrist lock was silken, as was the knucklelock into sunset flip that Benoit would make famous again 30 years later for a new generation.

In the first 10 minutes, one of the snapmares by Catanzaro is so brutally stiff that I'm :mark:ing and rewinding for a damn 50 year-old snapmare. I really enjoyed that if, in the beginning, one of the counters were "too cute" there was a sudden flash of physicality to snap the realism back (float-over to elbow smash, couple others). The finish was not a letdown for me - was like a proto-Shiranui. Powerbombs too?! Really enjoyed Catanzaro's arm sell near the end - he yelps and you can hear the crowd murmur as to whether he's ok. Fantastic stuff.

Small gripes with Cesca's leg work (was a bit dull), and the stretch leading to the finish could have had more tension, but really those are pretty minor flaws. Awesome recommendation!_


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok, so I have never watched a Sammartino match. Any recommendations out there?


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I had never actually seen that before but yes that must have been what the article I read was talking about. That's really, really cool seeing that Zayn is one of Hunters "guys". I don't think there is a better man to have in your corner at the moment than Hunter, considering he will be running the show for years to come. Then again, you'd literally have to be either blind, stupid, or no absolutely nothing about wrestling to not see that Zayn is truly a special performer.  There isn't anyone else like him in the world, there really hasn't been anyone like him before. Sure some of the things he does remind me of Steamboat and Rey at times, but the complete picture is so much different than either of them. He's a complete original in that regard. And he hasn't even debuted on the main roster yet.


I think he could be the first guy since Mick Foley that fans don't just cheer because of the talent, because the hype machine tries to tell us to, but because he is genuinely such a good guy. I mean, you run down the list of top babyfaces of WWE last 25 years. Hitman was revered for his ring ability and steadiness in a time of uncertainty and dedication to wrestling in a carttonish time. Undertaker wasn't even that revered by the audience until he improved to be a tremendous talent and earn that respect. Jericho as face was huge because of wit. Austin was cool to cheer and built a hell of a vicarious character connection. Rock was cheered due to crowd control abilities, wit and arguably cool factor. Cena is obviously polarizing. Angle got his face success off of versatile ability, understood seriousness and later on respect. Jeff Hardy blew up because he had his demographic and to casual audience members was very exciting. Rey Mysterio got cheered off of his abilities in my opinion. Eddie might be an antithesis to my point, but again his abilities could make audiences eat out of his hand. Punk is revered in this era because he is an edgy individual who will promo on whatever he feels as opposed to the machine at the time of his pipebomb no one else was and hadn't been for a while. Benoit's likeability mainly was on understood passion, clearly elevated ring ability and respect for the journey. Daniel Bryan is a great story and is a bit of a vicarious character to get behind and keep individual aspirations alive.

So what is my point? Well, Zayn has great ring ability and in addition to having the selling ability to be a sympathetic face is a GENUINELY GOOD GUY.. If his story ever is part of his character, fans will see that, and coupled with Zayn's timing and selling it will all blend to be what will be realness in a time where faces are manufactured and not felt. Not to mention, the man genuinely took a wrestling path to get to the WWE which fans always seem to respect. I agree completely about Zayn.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yet there are still a few people out there who think he "needs a character" on him to be interesting. Even though he has one: eternal natural babyface. But b/c he isn't telling people to Bolieve like a clueless fool or leading a cult of bearded individuals, he's not much of a character. Oh well. Their loss. Natural babyfaces sure seem like something this company can use outside of Bryan Danielson, though considering Cena & Sheamus try to good success, yet some just won't open up to it.

*no slights to ironically targeting IRS's children, but they were the first two characters to fly into my head for a point. Could have just easily used Tyler Breeze too, but ah. You get my point.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yet there are still a few people out there who think he "needs a character" on him to be interesting. Even though he has one: eternal natural babyface. But b/c he isn't telling people to Bolieve like a clueless fool or leading a cult of bearded individuals, he's not much of a character. Oh well. Their loss. Natural babyfaces sure seem like something this company can use outside of Bryan Danielson, though considering Cena & Sheamus try to good success, yet some just won't open up to it.
> 
> *no slights to ironically targeting IRS's children, but they were the first two characters to fly into my head for a point. Could have just easily used Tyler Breeze too, but ah. You get my point.


John Cena
Steve Austin
CM Punk
Daniel Bryan
Brock Lesnar
Shawn Michaels
Ric Flair
Bret Hart
Rey Mysterio
Ricky Steamboat
The Undertaker (American Badass years)

Those are some pretty successful cats, right? Yea, not a single one of them has a "character" or gimmick, per se. They were just themselves with certain aspects of their personality accentuated. Cena really is a Boy Scout in real life. Punk really is an asshole. Bryan really is a goofy, shy, humble, lovable little dork. Steve Austin really is a crazy, hilarious, foul mouthed, anti establishment, beer drinking sob from Texas. You get the picture. See the theme? The best way to get over is to be REAL. Stay true to what you are. Zayn is currently doing that to the fullest and if anyone tries to tell him to do otherwise, they are fucking stupid. Zayn is a really nice, funny, humble, hard working dude who busts his ass in the ring, has a chip on his shoulder to prove himself to any and everyone, and has too much pride to ever give up. Sounds like a winning character to me (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

For a second I thought you meant that as natural babyfaces and then I was going to spend two paragraphs talking about how funny it was seeing Shawn Michaels on it. Never mind. :hayley1


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Big E vs. Titus O'Neil (Superstars 5/29/14) 

Enjoyed their short match from the SD before Payback and hoped they'd have a more lengthy match. A good hard hitting contest that i'd watch again in a heartbeat.

also the recaps are getting even more ridiculous. If Main Event & Superstars are for the lower card guys why are the recaps getting so much time.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Natural babyfaces is something the entire business can use, especially since it's harder to be a good face than it is to be a good heel. That's why I try not to use the "he's better as a heel" argument anymore because that can be said for the majority of wrestlers. John Glover, who player Lex Luthor's father on Smallville, once said on I believe a commentary track for the show that playing a good guy was harder than playing a bad guy. He said this while discussing an episode where he, the bad guy, switched bodies with Clark Kent. It's been a while since I listened to the commentary, but the gist of it was that acting is essentially lying, and it's hard to sincerely play a good character because you're if you aren't able to lie about being nice and honest well enough you come off as disingenuous.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Superstars is a D list show just meant for whatever random exhibition matches for those guys on the roster who never or won't be working RAW that week. It's taped in a flash, so that's why recaps plague it up and down.

Main Event hasn't hit that level yet. It goes week by week on what it decides to give you as far as anything w/the roster goes. One week we're getting Shield vs Wyatts & the next it's Sandow vs Santino.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

WrestlingOracle said:


> So what is my point? Well, Zayn has great ring ability and in addition to having the selling ability to be a sympathetic face is a GENUINELY GOOD GUY. If his story ever is part of his character, fans will see that, and coupled with Zayn's timing and selling it will all blend to be what will be realness in a time where faces are manufactured and not felt. Not to mention, the man genuinely took a wrestling path to get to the WWE which fans always seem to respect. I agree completely about Zayn.


Very good point about how faces these days seem to be manufactured instead of felt. It's really been a problem that has gone on for nearly a decade to be honest when the WWE was still trying to maintain an "edgy" Attitude Era image in a post-Attitude Era world. So as a result, you get faces that act heelish when such a behavior can only be pulled off by a select few. All the while, a guy like Zayn or Ziggler that was so commonplace in the past (Steamboat, Santana, JYD, R&R Express) who just needs to do his thing to get over just seem to vanish. And that's really where the gimmicks come in. Those who don't have the natural babyface instincts (Miz, Sheamus) or guys who do but don't have the talent to back it up (Kofi) need gimmicks to be very over babyfaces. And that's perfectly fine, but it's hard to beat the naturally sympathetic babyface with a wealth of talent and an interesting back story based on their personal history.

Does anyone remember JBL interrupting a Mysterio/Kennedy match by RIDING OUT IN A HORSE? What a glorious image to behold. And Eddie Guerrero's character before he passed away where he tried to amend for his past sins was such an awesome story. These segments with Batista (especially the way he pronounces Batista's name) are killer. In a match where Eddie tags with Batista against LOD 2005, Eddie does one of the funniest things ever: he calls for timeout, PRETENDS THAT HE DROPPED A CONTACT LENS, scavenges for said lens on the mat, and gets Charles Robinson to help him with looking for it. While Charles Robinson is distracted with this, Eddie low blows Heidenreich and makes a hilarious face. While Smackdown has been somewhat amusing after the 2005 draft, RAW has nothing going outside of Ric Flair making Carlito matches tolerable.

I think another reason why Superstars/Main Event has so many recaps is because in some international markets, Superstars and Main Event broadcast before RAW does, so the recap serves as a way for those viewers to catch up. But I only know this to be true in my native country, where in the native language, Haku=poop.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

One of my all time favorite tricks from Eddie was one he pulled in a tag with Tajiri vs WGTT. Eddie kept leaving his corner and walking up the apron into the middle of the ring and the ref kept shooing him back to the corner and telling him he needed to hold the tag rope at all times. He does it like 3-4 times. Finally while the ref isn't looking, Eddie untiest the tag rope and stretches it all the way out, so it reaches like 10 feet off the post. The ref turns around and sees Eddie standing in the middle again and starts to disqualify him but Eddie holds the rope up like a little kid saying "See? I'm following the rules! I'm doing what you said, you said I gotta hold the rope I'm holding the rope!" The ref just has this completely flummoxed and exasperated look on his face, it's just priceless.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Superstars is a D list show just meant for whatever random exhibition matches for those guys on the roster who never or won't be working RAW that week. It's taped in a flash, so that's why recaps plague it up and down.
> 
> Main Event hasn't hit that level yet. It goes week by week on what it decides to give you as far as anything w/the roster goes. One week we're getting Shield vs Wyatts & the next it's Sandow vs Santino.


Yeah i thought so.
Harper,Rowan vs. Goldust,Kingston was too good, can't expect matches like that every week. Damn i wished they do something with Kingston besides a IC/US title reign.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Well, he wasn't wrong as their Raw match was excellent and they certainly had the chemistry. Just about every wrestler I've seen talk about Orton has praised his talents. Makes me laugh when I read some of the shit the morons on the 'net write about how Orton is a failure with no charisma and only became a main eventer because Vince has some weird boner for him.


Just watched the whole "Cody gets fired" saga.

Cody vs. Orton & Goldust vs. Orton are still great matches, with great crowd interaction and reaction. Cody did a nice job of looking so sad after his job was taken away, lol.

I 100% believe those reports about Steph getting mad about Dusty going off script, and burying him behind the scenes for it. You could tell that she was genuinely thrown off and irritated when he was saying stuff. Especially when he got right up in her face. She didn't have an actressy disgusted face, she _was_ disgusted. I know, 'cause she didn't play it up at all, lol. She also was talking fast when trying to get Dusty back on script. Totally was not her usual speaking style.

It just sucks how tightly controlled everything is, because everything he was saying was perfectly in context. He's a great mic worker. Get over yourselves, McMahons, ugh.

Having said that, Steph has been one of the strongest people on the mic to me since I first started watching again. It doesn't surprise me at all that her segments always do great in the ratings. I find myself always looking forward to them too. Even if the material isn't great & is just a repeat of everything that's been going on, her delivery is top-notch.

I forgot that Big Show was pretty good in that segment where he knocked Dusty out, lmao. Everyone shits on his involvement in the authority storyline, but I remember actually feeling a bit emo when watching Show during that, because he really did make himself look devastated. 

Also, he was over as hell then. Literally every single segment, he got the desired reaction, and had some of the best crowd interaction every time.

It's weird that the WWE does ridiculous & shitty storylines, but still somehow it works and there's an interest there, even if everyone knows it's kind of gone haywire, and is not the storyline that should be happening.

Still, people forget that Show was actually doing well with the crowds.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Eddie/Tajiri vs WGTT series in 2003. :sodone


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Tajiri stealing a car and screaming WASA WASA is GOAT. When did we get new Mark Henry smileys? And where's our Cal one?

There was another moment during that Eddie/Batista story where Eddie accidentally hits Batista with a chair, but before Batista turns around and looks to see who hit him, Eddie tosses the chair to Mercury and feigns getting hurt. The next week when Eddie and Batista were on opposing teams in a tag match, Eddie actually helped Batista win and then congratulated him after the match. While this was happening, Benoit and Mysterio (Batista's teammates) shook their heads as if they knew that this was just Eddie being Eddie. Incredible. I don't think anyone ever "got" it like Eddie did.

I too actually thought Big Show was phenomenal as a side character in the Authority angle last year. His acting was so on point and as that side character, we was very over. He played the perfect locker room veteran that needed to stand up for much of the boys backstage. Of course, it eventually jumped the gun, but considering that all of it turned out to have an ulterior motive and an eventual payoff, I can forgive it. Besides, how can you dislike 2013? What a glorious year.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The bad/bland storylines of 2013 are looking decent after how shit 2014 has been. Things like Heyman's guys vs Punk & the failed Authority angle. When that's over stuff in wrestling, god damn. You know you're fucking up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How did the authority angle fail when it led to the GOAT Mania moment?


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

There were some things from Show's role i didn't like. For one the crying could've been dialed down, only suitable situation for a crying Big Show would be when he had to KO Dusty.
Also we didn't need to hear about Show's failed investments, a real life Giant needing to keep the only job he's made for was reason enough to him to be at their mercy.

Besides that and giving him a title shot i liked his role and at the time was hoping other wrestlers would get more involved.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How did the authority angle fail when it led to the GOAT Mania moment?


I really don't give WWE much credit at all for that payoff to the Authority angle. If they had gone through with what was planned, Bryan would have been in the Wyatt family facing Sheamus at WM, Batista would be facing Orton in the single worst main event in the history of WM, and CM Punk would have been in a match with Hunter that made absolutely no sense what so ever. That was their "master plan". It took nuclear levels of fan disgust and outrage after the Royal Rumble and Punker walking out for them to finally pull their heads out of their asses and realize they had a massive star on their hands just waiting to break out.

Sure, what should have happened in the end did eventually happen. But it was by no means their plan. This wasn't some awesome, long, drawn out angle put in place to make Bryan the most universally loved figure in wrestling since Eddie in 04' or maybe even Rocky in 2000. No, they planned to have Bryan chase the title for a few months to fill time while Cena and some other stars were on the DL, then return to the status quo. They figured the fans would be cool with Bryan getting screwed out of the title at HiaC and going back "to his proper place" in the mid-upper mid card. 

I'm very happy we got to witness "Daniel Bryan Mania" aka WM 30. I'm not about to give WWE a pat on the back though for stumbling and bumbling their way to the correct action when as far back as July of 2013 it was blatantly obvious to anyone with a working set of eyes and ears that Bryan was worthy WWE Champion material.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

bme said:


> There were some things from Show's role i didn't like. For one the crying could've been dialed down, only suitable situation for a crying Big Show would be when he had to KO Dusty.
> Also we didn't need to hear about Show's failed investments, a real life Giant needing to keep the only job he's made for was reason enough to him to be at their mercy.
> 
> Besides that and giving him a title shot i liked his role and at the time was hoping other wrestlers would get more involved.


Yeah, I hated the lawsuit angle. Though Steph's righteous indignation and performance when she was firing Show was great.

Forgot to say that the pop that the Rhodes brothers received when they pinned the Shield to get their jobs back, was just great. The feel good moment afterward was great too. One of the better babyface reactions in recent memory. It felt like it was the perfect movie performance, where everyone is rooting for the underdog.

Shame how the WWE completely dropped the ball after that. They made two midcarders really matter. Why are they incapable of doing that all of the time?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually enjoyed the midcard scene for the most part in 2013. You had a strong tag division and lots of great talent. Just look at the list: The Shield, The Wyatts, The Usos, Rhodes Brothers, Ziggler, Sheamus, Jericho, Kane, Christian, Real Americans, Prime Time Players, Ryback, Del Rio, RVD, Sandow, and Henry. That's a stacked cast of characters that put on multiple high quality matches weekly. Could they have been booked better? Absolutely. But this is the WWE. They never cared about the midcard comparatively anywhere near as much as the main event. I'm more than satisfied with what I got.

I really didn't concern myself with the "what was planned" because in this case, I thought it was irrelevant and the endpoint justified everything that happened. If anything, I give the WWE credit for not being as close-minded as they were in the past. The Ruthless Aggression and the period afterwards was filled with greater disappointments that manifested itself in horrible ways. I'd rather rejoice in the one time they adjusted accordingly. In addition, the storyline got my youngest brother and his buddies into wrestling, and what's better than having a brother whose favorite wrestlers are Daniel Bryan, Mick Foley, and Tajiri?

Eddie vs. Batista is such a weird match. The story of it was so intriguing and Eddie did such a great job with playing his character. Batista also did a very good job of selling the long term effects of Eddie's back work. However, Eddie's offense was so dull and messy. It looked like Eddie spent more time spot calling than actually attacking Batista and there was tons of miscommunication, especially with the Texas Cloverleaf spot. Batista also didn't do anything else positive besides sell well and his comeback was kinda laughable. I would have loved to see more moments of Eddie playing off the conflicted character. The ending was also pretty terrible and it would have been better if they played towards the story of the match instead of picking such a generic ending.

EDIT: Are you guys aware that John Cena lost cleanly to Kurt Angle in 2005?


----------



## TNPunk (Jun 8, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How did the authority angle fail when it led to the GOAT Mania moment?


Did you just start watching wrestling


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Thanks to Yeah1993 I got to watch some awesome Funk vs. Lawler matches from 2003 I call this the Funkin'
King Tour 03'
The Funkin' King Tour 03':
Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler I JAPW: ***3/4
A great brawl that haves 8 piledrivers, chair shots and tables, This match is very fun but there are too many piledrivers and who the hell is face and heel. Also the promo Funk cuts afterwards is amazing.
ROOT SCALE: 3
High standards set can the sequel be better?

Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler II 3PW: **3/4
Decent match pretty much the same match but the second half was great Lawler killed it out there. Also the last half was luckily not like the previous match. Dont watch first half it sucks. Also the crowd is so fucking annoying really mute the match.
ROOT SCALE: 1
After a disappointing match can the last match outshine them all?

Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler III MLW: ***1/4
Good match more unique then the last match but sadly the video skip to the ending or some crap and the match ended really quick but still just a brawl and a great 8 minute match.
ROOT SCALE: 2

OVERALL ROOR SCALE: 7
Great set of matches just wish they did not do the same spots alot it really is annoying. Now Lawler sucks
:selfie:selfie:selfie


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

AwesomeBatman101 said:


> ROOT SCALE: 3
> 
> ROOT SCALE: 1
> 
> ...


:red


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Chismo said:


> :red


The CAL SCALE is dead and now I name it the ROOT SCALE.
LONG LIVE THE ROOT SCALE!


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Favor....

Can someone post a link to the full Punk/Eddie G match in 2002? Not the triple threat with Rey Rey....the one on one match with Punk/Eddie after. 

Thanks in advance (Y)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Favor....
> 
> Can someone post a link to the full Punk/Eddie G match in 2002? Not the triple threat with Rey Rey....the one on one match with Punk/Eddie after.
> 
> Thanks in advance (Y)


I uploaded that match on two different sites in the past............both were quickly took down. :cussin: I may try again if i cba.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Well I bought the High Spots unk4 DVD with the shoot interview and some random indie matches. The Punk/Eddie match is on there but I'm wondering if I have the whole match or not. I think it skipped the first 1-2 minutes


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Well I bought the High Spots unk4 DVD with the shoot interview and some random indie matches. The Punk/Eddie match is on there but I'm wondering if I have the whole match or not. I think it skipped the first 1-2 minutes


I'll try again. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

^^

NM dude. I figured it out. Maybe upload a few good :vader matches instead? :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Or if anyone can find it, Bob Armstrong vs. Ric Flair from 12/3/84. Apparently it's one of Flair's greatest title defenses with an iconic ending. But like most of Bob Armstrong's work, it's nearly impossible to find.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*SummerSlam 2004*

Time to take off the wrapping and finally watch this on DVD, despite owning it for like a year lol!


*The Dudley Boys Vs Rey Mysterio, Billy Kidman & Paul London *

6 man tag action to start off the show. Remember when Spike turned heel and became THE BOSS of the Dudley Boys? :lmao

"THIS IS GONNA BE A ROUGH AND TUMBLE 6 MAN TAG" :lmao.

I love Bubba as a heel. I'LL BEAT YOUR FACE IN~!

Love when Rey gets tagged in. He's PISSED at Spike because he cheated to win the CW title from him AND put him through a table a couple of weeks ago. So Rey beats the shit out of Spike, and it's pretty good. Also love when Spike kicks out of a pin attempt, so Rey just kicks him HARD in the back for having the nerve to actually kick out lol.

Seems that Rey was essentially the hot tag, despite London not really being much of a FIP. They just didn't get the time. Kidman tags in and also seems to be something of a hot tag despite the fact Rey was never FIP lol, but Kidman runs in and takes everyone out and nearly wins the match a couple of times, before the Dudley's hit a 3D and this is done.

Fun opener, but just didn't get the time to really turn into a great tag that it EASILY could have been, because Rey and London could have no doubt been pretty sweet FIP guys lol. Oh well. Enjoyable for what it was.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Kane Vs Matt Hardy - Till Death Do Us Part Match: Lita Will Marry the Winner*

Just like their previous PPV match, Matt starts the match off on fire. He wants to end this match quick, because the longer it goes the more chance Kane will get hold of him and murder him lol.

TWIST OF FATE ON THE FLOOR~! Damn, I don't think Kane's got any offence in outside of an uppercut for the first few minutes! I guess Matt really wants to marry Lita lol.

And Lita definitely wants to marry Matt, as she throws in the ring bell to Matt and distracts the referee! Kane gets his skull caved in with a SICKENING shot, but kicks out at 2!!!

Matt pretty much DOMINATED this match... but in the end it takes one giant Chokeslam from the ropes to give the win to KANE. 

Match is a bit disappointing, especially after their really fun brawl at the previous PPV. Plus it was pretty much just MATT beating up Kane, then Kane winning at the end lol.

*Rating: *1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Orton interview backstage... then Cena shows up with a cheesy grin on his face. Awful stuff from him.


*Booker T Vs John Cena - Best of 5 Series United States Championship Match 1*

:lmao I am not going to attempt this one.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Bischoff talks to the new SD GM, Teddy Long, and says that there is a good chance Teddy won't be GM by Survivor Series. Joke is on Bischoff, because Teddy would be around FOREVER...


*Batista Vs Edge Vs Chris Jericho - Intercontinental Championship Match*

:lmao Edge getting booed in his hometown :lmao.

:lmao Edge is posing in the ropes and Batista clubs him from behind and kicks him out of the ring. Great start to the match for the hometown "hero" Edge .

Edge returns to the match with a chop block to Batista who is about to powerbomb Jericho. What a stupid thing to do. LET HIM POWERBOMB JERICHO FIRST. That way, JERICHO IS OUT OF THE MATCH FOR A WHILE. Make it 1 on 1. Have a better chance of WINNING. Dumb shit. NO WONDER YOUR HOMETOWN HATES YOU!!! 

:lmao at Batista. Takes a dropkick and is SUPPOSED to go through the ropes but... well... have a look...










Edge and Jericho get some time alone, which results in more Edge getting booed by his hometown fans LOL.

:lmao Edge tries to Spear Batista, but they do the spot where someone (in this case, Jericho lol) runs from the side and stops it... but the timing is off and Edge ups up STOPPING to Jericho can hit him :lmao.

Spear to Jericho and this one is over in a flash. Underwhelming finish to an underwhelming match lol. This sucked.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Kurt Angle*

Urgh. I wanna skip this, but a big Eddie PPV match? I'll suffer. Maybe I'll like it. Maybe I'll win the lottery tonight.

I don't care for their WM match at all. And I always thought this was WORSE. Yey...

Eddie comes out in a lowrider as usual, and Tazz questions where Eddie found one in Canada. Despite the fact the lowrider has LOFLIFECUSTOMS.COM plastered on the windscreen. It's a mystery, Tazz.

They spend the first few minutes rolling around on the mat wrestling and then... 

ANKLE LOCK~! By Eddie. Angle channels THE MOUNTAIN and escapes with a pretty vicious thumb to the eye.

ANGLE SLAM~!

ANKLE LOCK~!

EDDIE WITH AN ANKLE LOCK ON ANGLE WHILE ANGLE HAD AN ANKLE LOCK ON EDDIE~!

ANKLE LOCK~!

ANKLE LOCK~!

Apparently hitting his finisher then applying his submission finisher THREE TIMES isn't enough so Angle decides to WORK THE ANKLE a little to soften it up :|.

ANGLE SLAM BY EDDIE~!

Eddie unties his boot ala WM XX. Then, despite being in a bunch of Ankle Locks and having his ANKLE WORKED OVER afterwards... he manages to pull of 3 Amigos with the greatest of ease. It happened to Benoit and it's happening to Eddie; The Angle Effect. It makes his opponents turn into retards. They forget the basics of wrestling like telling a coherent story or selling.

ANGLE SLAM~! Because this match needed another one.

Angle rips off the boot that Eddie untied before applying ANOTHER ANKLE LOCK, to avoid the same finish as WM. So Eddie instead uses the boot to deck Angle in the face.

FROG SPLASH~!

Guess what? THE MATCH STILL ISN'T OVER.

ANKLE LOCK~!

Eddie survives for about a minute and then finally taps.

This. Was. Garbage. There is practically NOTHING to this match besides finishers, be they high impact or submission. Over and over and over and over again. Lack of selling in between them too. Urgh.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Eugene*

Well isn't this ironic? I just watched Angle turn Eddie into a retard, and now I get to see HHH beat one up.

Eugene is getting the better of HHH at the start of the match :lmao. The Canadian fans are BOOING A RETARD.

So, how does HHH gain control? Does he out wrestle the retard? Nah, he uses Lillian Garcia (FAP FAP BTW) to distract him. HHH HAD TO DISTRACT A RETARD TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE MATCH. THIS IS A PPV MATCH. ONE OF THE BIG 4 PPV'S OF THE YEAR. FEATURING HHH, THE GUY WHO MAIN EVENTED WRESTLEMANIA XX AS THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION EARLIER IN THE YEAR. HE'S FIGHTING A RETARD. :lmao

:lmao had to laugh at Eugene doing the 10 punches in the corner, but stopping at 8 and using his finger to figure out how many he had left :lmao.

Once again, HHH is unable to beat Eugene with WRESTLING... so he has to trick him. Fakes an injury then attacks him from behind. HHH TRICKED A RETARD TO GAIN CONTROL OF THE MATCH. THIS IS A PPV MATCH. ONE OF THE BIG 4 PPV'S OF THE YEAR. FEATURING HHH, THE GUY WHO MAIN EVENTED WRESTLEMANIA XX AS THE WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION EARLIER IN THE YEAR. HE'S FIGHTING A RETARD. :lmao

So... HHH beats up a retard. On PPV. And the fans are loving it. They finally pop for Eugene when he gives HHH the middle finger and stuns him though .

PEDIGREE BY EUGENE~! Flair puts HHH's foot on the ropes. HHH NEEDED HELP FROM FLAIR TO SURVIVE A MATCH WITH A RETARD.

Flair gets sent to the back, but from behind comes WILLIAM REGAL who fucking decks the Nature Boy with brass knucks! Eugene is too distracted and ends up turning around into a Pedigree, and HHH FINALLY beats the retard.

I used to like this. But that was when I wasn't sleeping. Now I am, and fuck me I hated this. A main eventer against a retard on PPV. And the main eventer struggled to win. Just awful tbh.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Diva Dodgeball*

So this is just an excuse to get the diva search girls in bikini's bouncing around.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*JBL Vs The Undertaker - WWE Championship Match*

Fucking FINALLY, something to sink my teeth into on this damn show. Thank jebus for the 2 main events otherwise this PPV would be awful lol.

Man, Undertaker is fucking awesome (newsflash, I know...). He even stares down the guy who he hands his coat and hat to :lmao.

2 big Texans punching each other in the face :mark:. 

They go back and forth, until Orlando Jordan causes a distraction (by getting kicked in the face lol), allowing JBL to go after 'Taker's leg and smash it with a chair!

:mark: at the spot where Undertaker is walking up the steps and JBL pulls the good leg from under him, causing him to crash down onto the steel steps with the bad one :mark:.

The Canadian fans are doing a Mexican Wave because... I dunno, they are retarded? Lots of retards on this show tonight.

Undertaker and JBL are smashing each other in the face and Undertaker is busting out some cool MMA moves... and the fans are randomly chanting shit to amuse themselves. Urgh. Surprised a fucking Super Dragon chant didn't start up.

The Dead Man sells the leg really well, and JBL does a nice job of continuing to go back to it even when Undertaker is building some offence.

SNAKE EYES~! And Undertaker follows it up with... a clothesline! Which I liked because doing the big boot would put extra pressure on the bad leg!

CHOKESLAM~! JBL kicks out!!!

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! Undertaker kicks out!!!

REF BUMP~! WWE TITLE TO THE FACE~!

:lmao the referee is still out of it, so OJ does the count for him... and Undertaker STILL kicks out at 2!!!

Obvious Last Ride spot is obvious.

Undertaker punches JBL in the face with the title! Bah, the referee sees it and this one is over . JBL retains his title by DQ. So Undertaker chokeslams him through the top of the limo!

Great match. Always liked this one. 2 big bastards punching each other in the face. What's not to love?

*Rating: ***3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 4*


*Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:lmao JR and Lawler bring up Orton's family being in the business, and Lawler makes a joke about Randy's dad being "injury prone" (cos of the cast on his hand for years duh), and comes out with "but not this one, not his son!". And I laugh because Orton just has to punch the mat wrong while setting up an RKO and his shoulder will crumble :lmao.

Match has a nice "big fight feel" to it at the start. This match was only announced two weeks before SS, so they didn't have any big personal feud going into the match, and honestly here I think it works out for the better. It's simply the veteran Chris Benoit, who after years of struggling and fighting is finally the WHC, defending against the cock young rookie, who is desperate to prove that he IS the future of this business.

They start off very basic, locking up and doing a couple of Greco-Roman knuckle locks. Benoit is so damn quick he keeps turning the locks ups into other holds, frustrating Orton and gaining the advantage for himself. So Orton tries to turn it into more of a fight, only to run right into a Steamboat style arm drag and Orton just screams in pure frustration that he allowed himself to get caught like that. Awesome.

Man, I mentioned it in my Vengeance 04 review a bunch, but fuck, Benoit's style is just super. Constantly fighting, and constantly make his opponent fight too. You don't simply grab Benoit and hit a suplex; you gotta WORK for it, and it's amazing how such a small thing can really make a match that much HOLY FUCK BENOIT JUST KILLED HIMSELF. WITH A SUICIDE DIVE. THE IRONY. Sorry lol, was typing something and them BOOM. This happened:










And from there, Orton wisely goes after the neck of Benoit, which of course was also surgically repaired a couple of years back which isn't going to help anything after going head first into the barricade.

:mark: love that neckbreaker Orton does.

HEADLOCK~! And like the Edge Vengeance match, it looks great, plays perfectly into the match and ISN'T anything close to being a rest hold!

SHARPSHOOTER~! IN CANADA~! WITH EARL HEBNER AS THE REFEREE~!

Orton gets to the ropes, but he spent enough time in it to give Benoit the chance to recover, and now the CRIPPLER can build some momentum!

GERMAN SUPLEXES~!

HOLY FUCKING SHIT BENOIT WENT FOR A HEADBUTT AND ORTON GOT HIS LEGS UP AND BENOIT DOVE HEAD FIRST INTO ORTON'S BOOT :mark:.

RKO OUT OF NOWHERE~! ORTON IS THE NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!!!

Terrific match. I think I prefer their Raw rematch the next night, but damn this rules. Benoit and Orton just have amazing chemistry, which is evident by the fact this is probably only their FOURTH best match together imo!!!

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 7.5*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Your criticism of HHH/Eugene for it being "HHH being outsmarted by a retard" is definitely unfair imo, since regardless of the lack of logic of seeing the so-called Cerebral Assassin having to trick a mindfuck, HHH did put in a hell of a heel performance and Eugene did decently. Other than that, yeah, spot on thoughts on the show as I do. You're a 1/4* higher on JBL/Taker and lower on Benoit/Orton as I am, but we agree they're both great. And that the rest of the show (minus HHH/Eugene which was good) sucked balls. Eddie/Angle was absolutely garbageful. And part of the fault is definitely on Eddie, maybe even more so than on Angle - his selling was beyond awful. Their WM match was average, this was woeful. At least they had their AWESOME 2/3 falls match on SD, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*CM Punk vs. Eddy Guerrero (3/2/02) IWA:MS*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1yudma_vts-01-1_sport (Private)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Good to see CAL... I mean ROOT, still enjoying Orton vs Benoit part one. In terms of quality, I'd probably put their NHB, 13/1 and Raw matches above it but they are all awesome which we all know already.

Whenever I need something to watch, I can always put on one of their matches together and find a great way to kill 20 minutes.



funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: Are you guys aware that John Cena lost cleanly to Kurt Angle in 2005?


You're talking about the tag match when Angle reverses the Ankle Lock by Cena into a rollup? Yeah, that surprised me too when I first saw it.

I actually agree that Raw is a bit boring after SummerSlam that year. But still better than any of the past few years. You're just a PG era apologist, bro.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of the Angle/Eddie 2/3 falls match on SD? And is it the one where Luther Reigns shows up at the end.

Think I have to upload as i dont see it online, but just wanna make sure it's the right one.

Never mind, found the date. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There's a really good Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit match on Smackdown in 2005 worth looking for. And then the week later, Orton has an equally great match with Rey Mysterio. And if that wasn't enough, two weeks later Orton had an amazing match with The Undertaker on Smackdown. And if that wasn't enough, Orton had a good match a few weeks later with Eddie Guerrero. What a stretch!

I really despise RAW after the draft. Everything that could possibly go wrong did. The Cena/Jericho feud which started off really well jumped the shark, Kurt Angle and Shawn Michaels were having bad lengthy matches, Chris Masters and Carlito were terrible, so much of the top talent switched to Smackdown, the midcard was trash, and all the matches followed this terrible formula where the heel performed rest holds and forearm clubs for ten minutes until the babyface no-sells and hits their finisher in the most uninspired way. A grand total of 2.5 feuds were worth a damn for the rest of the year (HHH/Flair, Edge/Hardy, RAW/Smackdown). They were awesome feuds, but there was no middle ground; everything else was awful. And then that McMahon family drama in October. Terrible.

Compare that to Smackdown where we would get two good matches every week, Eddie Guerrero putting on an Oscar worthy performance, Batista actually being pretty interesting and cutting good promos, Chris Benoit being Chris Benoit, a strong midcard, and good PPVs. There were still flaws (Christian's terrible booking, LOD 2005, JBL/Batista feud), but it was overall a decent-excellent show that I'm hoping carries on to 2006. But I'm just calling it like it is. RAW in the past few years somehow outdoes the second half of RAW in 2005. No PG apologist nonsense.

EDIT: Tazz calls Batista "young" on the 10/28 episode of Smackdown :lol. 

And if anybody is wondering, that Flair/Armstrong match I asked about earlier was the one where Armstrong puts a sleeper hold (his finisher) on Flair during the last few minutes of the match. The ref does the "drop the hand" spot with Flair. Flair's hand drops twice, but when Flair's hand drops the third time, the bell rings signifying a time limit draw. Armstrong thinks that he won the match and the NWA title, but then it's announced that Flair retained it via time limit draw. 

An extra five minute session occurred after Flair and Armstrong agreed upon it. During that session, Armstrong locks in the sleeper once again and doesn't let go. The five minutes expire once again with Flair not losing, but in disbelief, Armstrong keeps on the sleeper even after multiple people try to restrain him.

When Armstrong finally releases the sleeper, he picks up the NWA title and caresses it. Then he drops it on Flair's lifeless body, grabs a mic, and tells someone to tell Flair "when the boy wakes up, you tell him the Bullet (Armstrong's nickname) was here."


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Excellent review Cal, as always. I actually attempted to watch Eddie/Angle from that show a few weeks ago when I saw that Meltzer had given it ****. I thought "maybe I missed something" the first time I watched it so I gave it another go. Putrid. Awful. Disgraceful. Those are the only adjectives that came to mind. It's the first time I can remember turning off an Eddie Guerrero match before it ended. Do you realize how bad something has to be for me to willingly stop watching my favorite wrestler ever? It's a strong contender for worst match of 2004. After about the 10th Ankle Lock or Angle slam I closed my laptop in disgust. I haven't a single clue wtf those two were thinking when they pieced that match together. Eddie is a master of working smart matches, but both just went full retard there. They managed to have 2 GREAT matches on Smackdown in 2004 and 2005, and then WM 20 was decent/good while not ever coming close to great, but man, SS is the definition of "the drizzling shits". It's even worse than the Lumberjack match where Eddie was so screwed up he wouldn't let Angle touch him, which seems impossible.

Agree on your thoughts with the rest of the show. I hated Eugene/Trips too, and I liked JBL/Taker. Orton and Benoit had 4 singles matches I know of, all over the **** mark, and some how that great SS match was their "worst". It's safe to say, Benoit was Ortons best opponent. No clue how Benoit didn't die doing that dive into the barricade. Easily could have broken his neck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ You should watch all the Orton/Benoit matches. There are 7 of them I think. SS, Raw after SS, SD before SS 05, the three best of 7 matches (30/12/05, 6/1 and 13/1) and the NHB.



funnyfaces1 said:


> There's a really good Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit match on Smackdown in 2005 worth looking for. And then the week later, Orton has an equally great match with Rey Mysterio. And if that wasn't enough, two weeks later Orton had an amazing match with The Undertaker on Smackdown. And if that wasn't enough, Orton had a good match a few weeks later with Eddie Guerrero. What a stretch!


He also had a decent match with Bob Holly the week after SummerSlam between the Benoit & Mysterio matches.

While you're at it, enjoy the Benoit/JBL match for a spot in the Survivor Series team. It's the week before Eddie dies.



> A grand total of 2.5 feuds were worth a damn for the rest of the year (HHH/Flair, Edge/Hardy, RAW/Smackdown).
> 
> ...RAW in the past few years somehow outdoes the second half of RAW in 2005. No PG apologist nonsense.


As opposed to today when we have... zero good feuds?

The PG apologist line was a joke in reference to your previous post where, as usual, you overrate the past few years and try to make them look better than they really are. You just can't bash the old years based on feuds when feuds today are pretty much nonexistent and if they exist, they lazily book the guys involved in the same match weekly.

Smackdown until May 2006 is great on a weekly basis. Last year I finished the first half of 2006 in about two months because it was so good.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Can anyone throw me some awesome Flair recs? I have seen pretty much all his stuff from '99 onward but I have seen criminally low of him before then. I know the guy probably has 1000 if not more matches online somewhere, so thanks in advance!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> Can anyone throw me some awesome Flair recs? I have seen pretty much all his stuff from '99 onward but I have seen criminally low of him before then. I know the guy probably has 1000 if not more matches online somewhere, so thanks in advance!


Flair/Windham 01/1987. Video is on my DM channel. Fucking awesome match.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> Can anyone throw me some awesome Flair recs? I have seen pretty much all his stuff from '99 onward but I have seen criminally low of him before then. I know the guy probably has 1000 if not more matches online somewhere, so thanks in advance!


-the 3 matches vs Steamboat in 1989
- Von Erich Hawaii 1985
- Funk 1989 series (TGAB, I quit)
- Lex Luger series of 1990
- Steamboat spring stampede 1994 (personal fav)
- Vader starrcade 1993
- arn anderson fall brawl 1995

I'm assuming you have seen the savage mania match and his wwe stuff. I'm being general but all those are great


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Flair/Windham 01/1987. Video is on my DM channel. Fucking awesome match.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App



I'd second this, fastly becoming my favorite Flair match ever, along with the Funk match at Great American Bash 1989. Also, he had a PHENOMENAL match with Windham at Battle of the Belts 1986. Another great one was the 2/3 Falls match he had with Wahoo McDaniel at Battle of the Belts 1985.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I currently have a 'to watch' list in progress, thought id post it here to help give other people ideas 



> Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico (Boston Street Fight) (ROH 8/10/07)
> Briscoe Brothers vs. Kevin Steen & El Generico (Ladder Match) (ROH 9/15/07) Man Up PPV
> Claudio Castagnoli vs El Generico - BOLA 2011
> Bryan Danielson vs Samoa Joe, Fight of the Century, 8/5/06
> ...


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Here's a fantastic Flair/Race match from AJPW, their best televised meeting:






The same user has Tenryu/Steamboat uploaded, holy turds, never seen that match, can't believe it. It's TENRYU contra STEAMER.


Btw, after reading Meltzer's huge write-up on the late Billy Robinson few months ago, the match from Minneapolis that happened in 197? between Race and Billy in front of 35,000 people has become my Moby Dick of pro-wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> The same user has Tenryu/Steamboat uploaded, holy turds, never seen that match, can't believe it. It's TENRYU contra STEAMER.


If its this one: Ricky Steamboat vs. Genichiro Tenryu (All Japan 2/23/84)

Then its very, very good IMO.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hey guys, I did another wrestling thing on the blog I'm writing for, it'd be awesome if you guys gave me some feedback Link is here


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am shocked that someone unironically likes Regal/Goldberg.

Glad that I watched Flair/HHH from Taboo Tuesday this afternoon. The cage actually felt like something that kept the two competitors inside to fight a war instead of an object in an obstacle course. Flair grabbing HHH's balls made me mark out more than I should. Flair cussing was :mark:. We've already seen millions of reviews for it, so no need to exacerbate this mini-review. But we need to give some credit to Joey Styles. Dude killed it out there by emphasizing just how big of an underdog story this was. I loved his point about Flair's scar tissue on his forehead and how it caused him to bleed so quickly and profusely. Styles also knows how to convey emotion and genuine excitement better than anyone. It's a shame that he gets a bad rep around here because he calls matches. But wow, I don't even know if Jim Ross himself could have made me so enthralled into the match as much as Joey Styles that night.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tanner1495 said:


> Can anyone throw me some awesome Flair recs? I have seen pretty much all his stuff from '99 onward but I have seen criminally low of him before then. I know the guy probably has 1000 if not more matches online somewhere, so thanks in advance!


Flair v. Ricky Morton GAB 86 cage
Flair v. Dusty GAB 86 cage (they used to run multiple GABs a year)
Flair v. Wahoo McDaniel BOTB 9/2/85
Flair v. Harley Race 8/31/83
Flair v. Terry Taylor 4/28/85
Flair v. Kerry Von Erich 4/28/85
Flair v. Terry Taylor 6/1/85
Flair v. Lex Luger Starrcade 88
Flair v. Kerry Von Erich 8/15/82
Flair v. Butch Reed 8/10/85
Flair v, Jake Roberts 11/24/85
Flair v. Koko Ware 11/18/85


edit you could start with this sub-ten minute match, though. Watched it recently and liked it a lot:

Ric Flair v. Jimmy Snuka
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkcalXzSEhc
I always forget how big Jimmy Snuka is. In my head I kind of picture him as a thin-ish guy who's really, really fit, but then I see him and he looks like someone they'd use for a main villain in a Rocky film. Flair was face here and was really putting over Snuka's largeassness. Some of Snuka's punches made Flair sell it in that Mr. Perfect rotate way but he made that look awesome. I remember this one .GIF of an elimination chamber match where Dolph Ziggler sold a punch from R-Truth and it looked fucking ridiculous and stupid and awful. Flair kind of did that rotation sell but instead of really swinging he just slammed himself and his head hits the mat (he was kneeling at the time of being ka-punched). Most of the rest of his selling was totally fucking awesome babyface bloody faced stumbling and bumping. Instead of his Flair flip over the turnbuckle he channeled Sgt. Slaughter and shoulder blocked the ring post before falling to the outside. Flair's comeback started with knees to the stomach before Snuka misses a headbutt and Flair jumps on him and unleashes fifty punches, two ring post shots, and a revenge chair shot to the head. Earlier the ref got pissy with Snuka for using fists and Snuka either tried to convince him the hand wasn't closed, or just didn't care. Flair turns that to 11 and shoves the ref down after shit about his own fists. And strangling. He was chocking a bitch. He gets disqualified for all the referee assault (he practically beat the shit out of him), but doesn't care because he just wants to kill Snuka. This ruled. Why was Jimmy Snuka ever a babyface?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

You could also watch theses :










Been meaning to watch those


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I uploaded a nice tag match from Japan involving Flair a while back: 

*10/22/85 Ric Flair & Rick Martel vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu*



Plus there is a really good Flair/Savage match from Japan on my DM channel too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> I currently have a 'to watch' list in progress, thought id post it here to help give other people ideas




killer stuff from MODERN Liger. :hayley3


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> killer stuff from MODERN Liger. :hayley3


:mark: yes everyone watch Liger/KUSHIDA, Liger is having such a FUN year and KUSHIDA has improved tremendously


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

LIGER.

Scored the "Wrestling's Highest Flyers" & Mysterio: Life of a Masked Man sets tonight. Yes, this is how I will spend my evening nursing my jump started weekend. Pumped.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Is it taboo to praise Rey's ECW stint? Because those matches with Juvi and Psicosis rule.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

His matches with Juvi in 96 were a breath of fresh air considering they couldn't have a proper match in AAA around that time. Goddmanit that disgustingly bad cage match. Oh for fuck's sake, I'd forgotten that existed until now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't see why it would be. Mysterio had some wonderful matches for his stint in ECW. Let it be praised.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I must have confused you with Cal then. Somebody here disliked Rey's super fun stint in ECW. That hurricanrana off of a car :mark:. That Life of a Masked Man set also has some real nice WCW gems that nobody knew existed. Thank goodness someone is constantly uploading WCW Worldwide episodes. Mysterio/Malenko from 96 on those shows were just as good as the GAB match. Same dude also recently uploaded a fun Austin/Bagwell match,a Meng promo about canoeing, and tons of Steamboat, Vader, Flair, and Regal matches that nobody knew existed.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Wanted to watch Michaels kick in Benjamin's head again, so I figured since outside this match I don't remember much any of it, why not watch the whole Gold Rush tournament? I did watch it, so here is a review.












*Christian with Tomko vs Kane*: Really weird booking here and if I recall correctly, this was right when they were really trying to build Christian up as a serious guy when he was putting in some really good work. Still, he didn’t last long at all here and didn’t come off good. Dud. 


*Benjamin vs Michaels:* This match is christened in history for the finish, but I loved the little sub-stories told in this match. The chief sub-story of the ultimate veteran Michaels being countered every step of the way by the supremely athletic and beyond his years savy Benjamin made Shelton look strong even with the loss. Both technically and especially in physical tools, Benjamin was the superior be it quick answers, landing on his feet while HBK spilled to the floor, the matching kick up or especially the opening westling. I liked the opening wrestling. As a means to throw off his opponent, older michaels occasionally would try to throw his opponent off rhythm by opening by playing to his opponent’s strengths, and in this case was outwrestled by the amateur champion and became pissed (“all right get him off me” or turning to the camera and saying get out of my face before break) The building of Michaels kick as devastating was good to tie into the finish. All of Benjamin’s offense came off really well/crisp which was important for this match. 

The finish was incredible, wasn’t telegraphed, was amazingly held up perfect by Benjamin who covered a great distance and whose legs didn’t touch the ground until impact. Kudos to Michaels too for really nailing the kick plush greeted with a great, proper sell from Benjamin who didn’t crumble like most would but instead was just instantly knocked out upon impact as he should. Nice call from JR. Liked how the match sort of came full circle, as originally it was Michaels being over zealous that got him off to a slow start but it wound up being Benjamin’s over zealous action costing him and the vet taking advantage. Only real gripe would be the overkill of the “bottom of the 9th” sympathetic selling Michaels employed here in a match it was uncalled for. Small gripe with the angle the ref took on the pin counters, which in turn made the spot less effective, but this is a small gripe. Great match, great performance from Benjamin and good one by HBK. No problem giving this one a solid **** 1/4. May seem high to some of you but to me this match deserves no more, no less. 


*Jericho/Edge:* Wasn’t going to top Michaels/Benjamin and didn’t have the time to do so. Man though, Jericho worked his ass off to try and for what he got in pretty good work by Edge. Liked the pace and what they tried to get in. Liked the false finish with the briefcase. Good little match. ***. 

*Benoit/HHH*
The opening of this match really set the tone for the ring story. Game looks visibly pissed. Benoit stiff as hell chop to start then wrenches HHH with that vicious headlock that only Benoit could do. HHH’s rage makes him try a pedigree to no avail. HHH avoids sharpshooter (nice foreshadowing) followed by a hard as hell break by Benoit. Benoit got smoked with one of the hardest clubs to the back of the head I have ever seen in the modern era that sends Benoit flying out of the damn ring with a look akin to a fish who has been caught from the water. Benoit's trademarks are stamina, technical ability/execution, crispness, a machine pace and intensity, so when he slows down to really show impact, you feel realness. He then goes numb as the commercial serves like a cliffhanger as we await to see if Benoit is ok. Beautiful fulfillment of emulation that wrestling at best strives for in ring. I don’t remember a Benoit concussion angle, thus I don’t know if Benoit is selling or not given how convincing that look was. 

Come back to see Benoit get potatoed and then good psychology by the Game targeting the soft spot highlighted by Benoit selling a sleeper like a champion since the man got nearly decapitated earlier; he knows the stakes if the sleeper is locked on. Game goes for the sleeper again after seeing the first one’s effects. but is met with a suplex that he sells with a good display of agony (really wished the current roster would take note there while many are great talents in ring I notice not many sell the back suplex) Really enjoyed this until a forced ref bump causes shenanigans that run too long considering the ref didn’t take that bad of a blow. Finish was very nice. Crowd popped big. HHH sold beautifully looking like his legs were getting sawed off. Batista with funny trolling as HHH takes one from his idol Flair’s playbook by thrashing his head and finally screams SOB before finally tapping out. 

Nice match with ace selling by both and good psychology by HHH here. Loved the pace these two cut and the authentic intensity they once again brought. Match lagged during the ref bump, but nice finish and a fine match. ***3/4 for me but easily could be **** if someone isn't bothered by the shenanigans and has lower standards in the way they rate. The pairing of HHH/Benoit yields a nice batting average with some grand slams ala the Mania 20 classic. Haven’t seen this in a long time and will rewatch this again sometime. 

Semis:
*HBK vs Edge*: I thought HBK sold well in this one, liked the aggression and hunger for the belt Edge wrestled with, but there really wasn’t much special in the ring here. Basic match but I will say the presentation was great with the crowd hot and JR selling the dastardly finish very well and selling the ramifications of the match and a bout with Kane well. Wish there was more here considering we have an incredible, elite caliber worker going up against a good one who as heel (the role Edge was playing here) can be great. Not a bad match by any means, just a basic one with a great atmosphere. I will give it ** ¾ because I thought overall it was nearing the good range on the whole but like I keep saying overly basic. 

*Kane/Benoit*: I maintain that while Kane is a solid worker and one hell of a workhorse for the company over time who has been in plenty of good matches and some collective great matches, the only guys to get mano e mano great matches out of Kane have been Taker (WM 14), Benoit (Bad Blood 04, RAW rematch) and Shane multiple times (need to rewatch ER to reserve judgement to add Dbry though Kane/Bryan was real fun first watch). This is one of those men against Kane. This was good. Some nice spots (five germans, mid-air dropkick by Benoit to counter Kane, Benoit playing dead to try that crossface only to get shut down with the callback), nice intensity, some hard shots ala Kane’s irish whips, hard uppercuts and that DRILLED enzuguri to Kane by Benoit. Liked the continuity. Not a perfect match by any means, not a great match like Bad Blood 04 or that RAW rematch, but a good, hard worked tv match. ***1/4

*Finals: Edge/Kane:* Edge’s expressions and movement really made Kane look like a monster for this match, and this was a decent match highlighted by a vicious, sky high sidewalk slam with a wicked smile by Kane following, but this match was muddied by the finish in which Edge didn’t even hit Kane plush with the case. I will give this a couple stars. **. These two had better matches in this same year. 

Overall, an interesting tournament with matches that aside from HBK/Benjamin I honestly forgot all about. (While SD in 05 was damn good, Raw despite some really good individual efforts on the whole was so so at best.). This tournament had high peaks and when not peaking was at least steady outside of Kane/Christian and the finals and was a fun refresher to my mind. As a parting comment, you compare the booking of Edge with the briefcase winning a tournament with the talents here and directly beating out a former world champ in Jericho, an even then all time talent like HBK and Kane and then compare the booking of Sandow with the case and then compare where the two have wound up post cashing in though both are good talents. I’m just saying. 





.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ha. That's funny. I came in here to say how weak the Shelton vs Michaels match is now and I don't like it. It's got nothing behind it & Shawn was (lol) mad throughout so much of it b/c he couldn't find any portions where clicked w/Shelton. Way too exhibition-y. They just run through some random junk b/c it's part of their offense until there's a stiff, memorable finish. Thank christ Shelton didn't let Michaels outwrestle him in the start - even though it appeared Shawn was actually supposed to a la doing it to Angle in the shitfest from WM - b/c we don't need that stupid turn of events happening again.

So much of Michaels 2002 - 2010 career return doesn't hold up at all. If you're young and don't pay attention, apparently he was great. Now he's only proving to me why I don't give a damn about him unless it was The Rockers or 1995 - 1996.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Everyone's thoughts on Jericho/Angle from Rebellion '01? I really like the match and have it at ****. It's a straightforward fluid match that flows well, has good moves/counters & it's just a nicely packaged match. Matches like this one, I really like. Sorta like Rock/Jericho from No Mercy '01, a mostly straightforward fluid wrestling match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Shawn/Shelton was an exhibitiony match because it was supposed to be just that - an exhibition match for young Shelton Benjamin who countered everything or almost everything HBK threw at him, but at the end the veteran just had one bigger shot (and a quite big one). At least that's how I see it. But then again, you are Cody, you don't really like that much 8*D

Anyway, I came here to post this tremendous gem:


Oh, and my MOTN rankings will soon enough start too


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I liked the Jericho/Angle match from Rebellion, but wouldn't grade it as high as ****, it's a ***1/2 in my books,


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> His matches with Juvi in 96 were a breath of fresh air considering they couldn't have a proper match in AAA around that time. Goddmanit that disgustingly bad cage match. Oh for fuck's sake, I'd forgotten that existed until now.


I really must start Will's Rey Mysterio Pre-WWF comp one day. 



Spoiler: MATCH LISTING



BEST OF REY MYSTERIO JR

Disc 1
Rey Misterio Sr. Interview w/ El Colibri (WWA 1990)
El Colibri vs. Tel-Star (So-Cal Handheld 3/31/90)
Rey Misterio Jr., Winners & Super Calo vs. Psicosis, Heavy Metal & Mr. Condor (AAA 7/31/92)
Rey Misterio Jr., Misterioso y Volador vs. Rocco Valente, Tony Arce, Vulcano (AAA 10/2/92)
Rey Misterio Jr., Winners & Super Calo vs. Psicosis, Heavy Metal & El Picudo (AAA 1/29/93)
Rey Misterio Jr., Lizmark & Eddy Guerrero vs. Psicosis, Heavy Metal & La Parka (AAA 2/21/93)

Disc 2
Rey Misterio Jr., El Volador & Misterioso vs. Psicosis, Heavy Metal & La Parka (AAA 3/21/93)
Rey Misterio Jr., El Volador & Misterioso vs. Psicosis, Heavy Metal & Jerry Estrada (AAA 4/9/93)
Rey Misterio Jr., El Volador & Misterioso vs. Psicosis, Heavy Metal & Jerry Estrada (AAA 8/28/93)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs. Psicosis, El Espanto & Jerry Estrada (AAA 1/14/94)
Rey Misterio Jr., Heavy Metal y Winners vs. Jerry Estrada, Fuerza Guerrera y El Espectro (AAA 3/12/94)

Disc 3
Rey Misterio Jr., Rey Mysterio Sr. & Lizmark vs. La Parka, Psicosis & El Espectro Jr. (AAA 5/5/94)
Rey Misterio Jr., Rey Mysterio Sr. & Volador vs. Misterioso, Fuerza & Juventud Guerrera (AAA 5/15/94)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs. Psicosis, Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera (AAA 7/15/94)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs. Jerry Estrada, Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera (AAA 7/29/94)
Rey Misterio Jr., Rey Mysterio Sr. & Latin Lover vs. Psicosis, Fuerza & Juventud Guerrera (AAA 8/4/94)
Rey Misterio Jr., Heavy Metal & Latin Lover vs. Psicosis, Fuerza Guerrera & Louis Spicolli (When Worlds Collide 11/6/94)

Disc 4
Rey Misterio Jr., Heavy Metal & Latin Lover vs. Psicosis, Fuerza & Juventud Guerrera (AAA 11/29/94)
Rey Misterio Jr vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 11/30/94)
Rey Misterio Jr. & Rey Mysterio Sr. vs. Fuerza & Juventud Guerrera (AAA 2/6/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. & Rey Mysterio Sr. vs. Fuerza & Juventud Guerrera (AAA 3/2/95)

Disc 5
Rey Misterio Jr., Rey Mysterio Sr. & Transformer vs. Psicosis, Fuerza & Juventud Guerrera (AAA 3/5/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs. Psicosis, Blue Panther & Fuerza Guerrera (AAA 3/16/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., Volador & Winners vs. Psicosis, Misterioso y Heavy Metal (AAA 4/16/95)
Rey Misterio Jr vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 4/21/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., La Parka y Octagon vs. Fuerza Guerrera, Pentagon y Psicosis (AAA 5/31/95)

Disc 6
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 6/16/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo, La Parka & Octagon vs. Fuerza Guerrera, Psicosis, Pentagon & Blue Panther (AAA 6/18/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo, La Parka & Octagon vs. Fuerza Guerrera, Psicosis, Pentagon & Jerry Estrada (AAA 7/8/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., Hijo del Santo & Octagon vs. Pentagon, Psicosis & Heavy Metal (AAA 7/16/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., Octagon, La Parka & Latin Lover v Fuerza Guerrera, Psicosis, Pentagon & Blue Panther (AAA 7/28/95)

Disc 7
Rey Misterio Jr., Misterioso, Super Calo y Volador vs. Blue Panther, Heavy Metal, Piromaniaco y Psicosis (AAA 8/11/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (ECW 9/16/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (AAA 9/22/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (2/3 falls) (ECW 10/17/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. & Konnan vs. Psicosis & La Parka (ECW 10/28/95)
Rey Misterio Jr., La Parka y Octagon vs. Psicosis, Pentagon y Pierroth Jr. (AAA 11/14/95)

Disc 8
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (Mexican death match) (ECW 11/18/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA HH 12/10/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (WAR 12/13/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (AAA 12/28/95)
Rey Misterio Jr. & 911 & vs. The Eliminators (ECW 1/5/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Cage Match) (AAA 1/31/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (ECW 2/3/96)

Disc 9
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psichosis (AAA HH 3/1/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (2/3 falls) (ECW 3/9/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (AAA HH 3/14/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. y La Parka vs. Juventud Guerrera y Halloween (AAA HH 3/15/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 3/16/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (WAR 4/19/96)

Disc 10
Rey Misterio Jr. & Perro Aguayo vs. La Parka & Ultimo Dragon vs. Cibernetico & Pierroth Jr. vs. Heavy Metal & Psicosis (AAA HH 6/2/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (GAB 6/16/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 6/17/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (BATB 7/7/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 7/8/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (WCWSN 7/13/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (AAA 7/15/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (WAR 7/20 96)

Disc 11
Rey Mysterio Jr., Ultimo Dragon, Lance Storm & Yuji Yasuraoka vs. jushin Liger, Gedo, Lion Heart & Juventud Guerrera (WAR 7/21/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (Pro 7/27/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. the Lawn Dart (Nitro 7/29/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Pro 8/10/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon (Hog Wild 8/10/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon (Nitro 8/12/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Clash 8/15/96)
Rey Misterio Jr. y Konnan vs. Jerry Estrada y Juventud Guerrera (AAA 8/17/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Super Calo (Fall Brawl 9/15/96)

Disc 12
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 9/16/96)
Dean Malenko steals Rey Mysterio Jr.'s mask (WCWSN 9/28/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (WAR 10/11/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Havoc 10/27/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon (WW3 11/24/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon (WAR 12/13/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Jushin Liger (Starrcade 12/29/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 12/30/96)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (Nitro 1/6/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Steve Regal (Nitro 2/10/97)

Disc 13
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 2/24/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon (Spring Stampede 4/6/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Yuji Yasuraoka (Slamboree 5/18/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Kevin Nash (Nitro 6/30/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 9/8/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 9/15/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. El Caliente (Nitro 9/29/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 10/13/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Havoc 10/26/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 10/27/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 11/10/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chris Jericho (Nitro 11/17/97)

Disc 14
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (World War 3 11/23/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 12/1/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera vs. Psicosis and La Parka (Nitro 12/15/97)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 1/15/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chris Jericho (Souled Out 1/26/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chris Jericho (BATB 7/12/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. gives up the Cruiserweight Title/
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 7/13/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 7/16/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chris Jericho (Nitro 8/3/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psicosis (Road Wild 8/8/98)

Disc 15
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psichosis vs. Lizmark Jr. (Nitro 8/10/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman (Nitro 10/18/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psichosis (Nitro 11/2/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Thunder 11/5/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 11/9/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 11/16/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman (Nitro 11/23/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 12/10/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman (Nitro 12/14/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 12/17/98)

Disc 16
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero (Nitro 12/21/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman vs. Juventud Guerrera (Starrcade 12/27/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Eddie Guerrero & Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 12/28/98)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Psichosis and Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 1/4/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman vs. Juventud Guerrera vs. Psicosis (Souled Out 1/17/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Blitzkrieg (Nitro 2/9/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Konnan vs. The Outsiders (Superbrawl 2/21/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Kevin Nash (Nitro 2/22/99)

Disc 17
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Kevin Nash (Uncensored 3/14/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman (Nitro 3/15/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ric Flair (Nitro 3/22/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko (Nitro 3/29/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Billy Kidman (Spring Stampede 4/11/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Nitro 4/12/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 4/15/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera vs. Psichosis vs. Blitzkrieg (Nitro 4/19/99)
Rey Mysterio, Jr., Raven and Perry Saturn vs. Billy Kidman, Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko (Thunder 4/21/99)

Disc 18
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Psichosis (Nitro 4/26/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs. Raven & Saturn (Slamboree 5/9/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Konnan vs. Psychosis and Villano V (Thunder 6/10/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Konnan vs. Curt Hennig & Bobby Duncum Jr (GAB 6/13/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Blitzkrieg (Thunder 7/1/99)
No Limit Soldiers vs. West Texas ******** (BATB 7/11/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Eddie Guerrero vs. Juventud Guerrera and Psychosis (Thunder 7/22/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Lenny Lane (Thunder 8/19/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr., Eddie Guerrero and Kidman vs. Bobby Duncum Jr., Barry and Kendall Windham (Thunder 8/26/99)

Disc 19
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Juventud Guerrera & Psichosis (Nitro 9/20/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Dean Malenko (Nitro 10/4/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Saturn (Nitro 10/11/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Konnan vs. Harlem Heat (Nitro 10/18/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Blitzkrieg (WCWSN 10/23/99)
Filthy Animals vs. Steve Regal, Dave Taylor, and Chris Adams (Konnan subs for Rey) (Thunder 10/28/99)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera vs. Shannon Moore & Shane Helms (Thunder 7/26/00)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Juventud Guerrera vs. Vampiro & The Great Muta (Nitro 8/14/00)
Filthy Animals vs. Natural Born Thrillers (Fall Brawl 9/17/00)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Thunder 9/20/00)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Elix Skipper (Nitro 10/9/00)

Disc 20
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Lance Storm (Nitro 12/18/00)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Lance Storm and Elix Skipper (Thunder 1/10/01)
Filthy Animals vs. Team Canada (Penalty Box Match) (Sin 1/14/01)
El Nino vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr. (Nitro 2/5/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr. (Superbrawl Revenge 2/18/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Evan Karagias & Shannon Moore (Thunder 3/14/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Elix Skipper & Kid Romeo (Greed 3/18/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr., Billy Kidman & Shane Helms vs. Chavo Guerrero Jr., Kid Romeo & Elix Skipper (Thunder 3/21/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. The Jung Dragons vs. 3 Count (Nitro 3/26/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Billy Kidman vs. Elix Skipper & Kid Romeo (Nitro 3/26/01)

Disc 21
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Juventud Guerrera (Tijuana 4/6/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. & Nicho El Millonario vs. Villanos III & V (Tijuana 9/28/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr., El Hijo Del Santo, ***** Casas y Hombre Sin Nombre vs. Juventud Guerrera, Nicho El Millonario, Damian 666 y Halloween (CMLL 12/14/01)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. CM Punk (IWA-MS 3/1/02)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ace Steele (IWA-MS 3/2/02)
Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. BJ Whitmer (HWA 6/1/02)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

How many comps do you own? :\


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> How many comps do you own? :\


Not as many as some people I've seen around my travels, but a few.  

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I've finally gotten to that point where I've forgotten what wrestling I actually own. I found the AWA set in my room and literally said to myself ''when the hell did I buy that?'' And since 2011 I've self-burnt hundreds of discs. Best and worst thing about wrestling is that there is too much of it to watch. And when you want to catch up you fail to realize more time has passed and more new wrestling matches have taken placed and been taped. But you have faith, that one day, one place, your lack of productivity of everything important will create a multitude of moods where you finally see what you wanted to. And you finally experience the joy of watching the good, and the displeasure of watching the Davey Richards. But you find yourself doing something else and then more matches get taped and then you just decide it's easier to die.

I usually don't get into this mood at 7PM.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I own around 70 comps .

Got WM XXX Bluray early, not out until Monday here but I got it on Friday. Haven't even attempted to watch any of it lol . Not often I pre-order wrestling dvds/blurays these days, so usually when I get something like WM it's the year afterwards, and I haven't seen the show since the previous year so I tend to stick the disc in and give it a watch. This time around it's too fresh in my mind still . Disappointed with the packaging for it, as it comes with that special booklet thingy... and instead of it all coming in a fancy box (like the WM 25 bluray + book did)... the book is literally JUST STUCK TO THE BACK OF THE BLURAY CASE. I miss SilverVision .

Posted my SummerSlam 2002 Ramblings on my blog today, so check it out if you missed me posting it on here last year at some point lol. Writing up my "end of year" thoughts for my blog to go on in the next 10 minutes or so as well, and I'll be posting my "2002 Perfect PPV" on Wednesday as well .

Might attempt No Mercy 2004 today too. The undercard makes me wanna vomit though. At least I have JBL/Undertaker smashing each other in the face to look forward to :mark:.

Someone mentioned me not liking Rey in ECW. Yeah, was definitely me. Not a fan of the Rey Vs Juvi/Psicosis matches that I've seen. 

Watched this last night:



> I just watched FINLAY VS HENRY from ECW November 4th 2008. Holy fuck does it rule :mark:. Henry absolutely BATTERS Finlay, and I'm fairly certain Finlay gets knocked a little loopy in the first few minutes following a headbutt, and his cheek even seems to be bleeding a little too after it lol. We all remember the awesome arm selling from CHRISTIAN in the Feb match with Swagger on ECW 4 months later, but damn, Finlay's arm selling in this is pretty swanky too. Not AS good, but still fucking great. Henry is just a beast the entire match. He's awesome on offence, even though "technically" he doesn't really do much aside from slams, shoves and clubs to the back lol. I love how he'll just grab Finlay and shove him down hard to the mat and go for a cover. He's all "get the fuck down on the match so I can pin you, bitch", and not even Finlay can stop him from doing it. Loved the spot with Henry chasing Hornswoggle on the outside, and Finlay waiting for him around the other side. Anyone who has watched a couple of wrestling matches can figure out what's gonna happen... only it DOESN'T happen like you'd expect :mark:. Finlay charges at Henry... and Henry catches him, lifts him in the air and slams him into the ring post :mark:. The moment where Henry makes one mistake, missing a splash off the ropes and potentially injures his leg, is awesome. Finlay is like a shark who smells blood, and waste no time going right after the leg. All in all a fucking great match, and I'm glad I randomly double clicked on that episode despite not knowing what was on it .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One page ago I posted a No Mercy 2004 undercard match that will surely NOT make you vomit, Cal 

Plus, I'm pretty sure that Eddie actually carried Luther Useless into a somewhat passable match, there was a filler 6-person Tag that actually worked, and Angle/Show was solid too iirc. JBL/Taker was far from being as good as SummerSlam, I'm telling you, but it's still entertaining.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I've finally gotten to that point where I've forgotten what wrestling I actually own. I found the AWA set in my room and literally said to myself ''when the hell did I buy that?'' And since 2011 I've self-burnt hundreds of discs. Best and worst thing about wrestling is that there is too much of it to watch. And when you want to catch up you fail to realize more time has passed and more new wrestling matches have taken placed and been taped. But you have faith, that one day, one place, your lack of productivity of everything important will create a multitude of moods where you finally see what you wanted to. And you finally experience the joy of watching the good, and the displeasure of watching the Davey Richards. But you find yourself doing something else and then more matches get taped and then you just decide it's easier to die.
> 
> I usually don't get into this mood at 7PM.


Luckily i keep a list of what i have, even then i forget what i have. Tis kinda sad to have all these discs lying around, i also have lots of comps on HDD's that i need to burn onto discs so i can watch them easily. I cant honestly say ill ever get around to watching everything i have, i hope i can get to watch most but im not sure, esp with new stuff coming out all the fecking time. 



#ROOT said:


> I own around 70 comps .
> 
> Got WM XXX Bluray early, not out until Monday here but I got it on Friday. Haven't even attempted to watch any of it lol . Not often I pre-order wrestling dvds/blurays these days, so usually when I get something like WM it's the year afterwards, and I haven't seen the show since the previous year so I tend to stick the disc in and give it a watch. This time around it's too fresh in my mind still . Disappointed with the packaging for it, as it comes with that special booklet thingy... and instead of it all coming in a fancy box (like the WM 25 bluray + book did)... the book is literally JUST STUCK TO THE BACK OF THE BLURAY CASE. I miss SilverVision .


Thinking about picking up WMXXX set too this week, ive still to get 29 lol, but i know ASDA are stocking the set with the book so ill probably grab it from there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> One page ago I posted a No Mercy 2004 undercard match that will surely NOT make you vomit, Cal
> 
> Plus, I'm pretty sure that Eddie actually carried Luther Useless into a somewhat passable match, there was a filler 6-person Tag that actually worked, and Angle/Show was solid too iirc. JBL/Taker was far from being as good as SummerSlam, I'm telling you, but it's still entertaining.


I missed it because DM videos don't seem to work for me on Chrome . YT vids didn't either until about a month ago and they randomly started again lol.

I've always liked the JBL/Taker NM match MORE than SS so I can't wait to see it again :mark:. Still not looking forward to anything on the undercard though lol . Oh well, gotta get through it and then I can finish up 2004 with Survivor Series :mark:. Taker/Heidenrape, Shelton/Christian and Raw Elimination Tag :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Posted this before, but after nicking an idea from Cal, decides to put together a 'Best Of 2001 WWF PPV Matches'



> Royal Rumble 2001
> Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) (Royal Rumble 2001)
> Steve Austin vs Triple H (2/3 Falls) (No Way Out 2001)
> Kurt Angle vs The Rock (No Way Out 2001)
> ...


Any essentials missing?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Here is everything I have at ***+ which might help you out:

The Dudley Boys Vs The Big Show & Kane - *** - 2 (Vengeance)
Vince McMahon Vs Shane McMahon - *** - 2 (WrestleMania 17)
The Big Show Vs Bradshaw - *** - 2 (Insurrextion)
Chris Jericho Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Chris Benoit Vs X-Pac - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
Edge Vs Test - *** - 2 (Survivor Series)
Triple H Vs Kane - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - *** - 2 (Insurrextion)
Stephanie McMahon Vs Trish Stratus - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
The Undertaker Vs Booker T - *** - 2 (No Mercy)
Test Vs Kane - *** - 2 (No Mercy)
The Dudley Boys Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The APA - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Rhyno Vs Tajiri - *** - 2 (Unforgiven)
William Regal Vs Tajiri - *** - 2 (Rebellion)
Raven Vs The Big Show Vs Kane - *** - 2 (WrestleMania 17)
The Undertaker & Kane Vs DDP & Kanyon - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
Kurt Angle Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/4 - 2 (WrestleMania 17)
Edge & Christian Vs The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Pac & Justin Credible - ***1/4 - 2 (Insurrextion)
The APA & Spike Dudley Vs The Dudley Boys & Test - ***1/4 - 2 (SummerSlam)
Edge & Christian Vs The Dudley Boys - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
Rhyno Vs Raven - ***1/4 - 2 (Backlash)
Triple H Vs Steve Austin - ***1/4 - 2 (No Way Out)
William Regal Vs Tajiri - ***1/4 - 2 (Survivor Series)
Kurt Angle Vs Triple H - ***1/2 - 3 (Royal Rumble)
RVD Vs Chris Jericho - ***1/2 - 3 (Unforgiven)
The Hardy Boys Vs The Dudley Boys Vs Edge & Christian - ***1/2 - 3 (WrestleMania 17)
Edge Vs William Regal - ***1/2 - 3 (Vengeance)
Tajiri Vs X-Pac - ***3/4 - 4 (SummerSlam)
Chris Jericho Vs Kurt Angle - ***3/4 - 4 (Rebellion)
The Undertaker Vs RVD - ***3/4 - 4 (Vengeance)
Jeff Hardy Vs RVD - ***3/4 - 4 (Invasion)
The Undertaker, Kane, Steve Austin, Kurt Angle & Chris Jericho Vs DDP, Rhyno, The Dudley Boys & Booker T - ***3/4 - 4 (Invasion)
The Rock Vs Chris Jericho - **** - 5 (No Mercy)
Chris Jericho Vs Rhyno - **** - 5 (SummerSlam)
APA Vs Perry Saturn & Dean Malenko Vs The Dudley Boys Vs X-Factor Vs The Hardy Boys Vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit Vs Edge & Christian - **** - 5 (Judgment Day)
The Undertaker Vs Triple H - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania 17)
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/4 - 6 (Unforgiven)
Steve Austin Vs The Undertaker - ****1/4 - 6 (Judgment Day)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/2 - 7 (Royal Rumble)
The Rock Vs Steve Austin - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania 17)
The Undertaker, Kane, The Big Show, Chris Jericho & The Rock Vs Steve Austin, Kurt Angle, Shane McMahon, Booker T & RVD - ****1/2 - 7 (Survivor Series)
Kurt Angle Vs Shane McMahon - ****1/2 - 7 (King of the Ring)
Steve Austin & Triple H Vs The Undertaker & Kane - ****1/2 - 7 (Backlash)
Chris Benoit Vs Kurt Angle - ****3/4 - 8 (Backlash)
Chris Benoit Vs Chris Jericho - ****3/4 - 8 (Royal Rumble)
Steve Austin Vs Kurt Angle - ***** - 9 (SummerSlam)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah mate, thanks very much.  Ill add a few more and repost my list.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

When you post the list, make sure to remove that 2/3 falls from JD :side:.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Whoever pimped this a few pages ago, thank you.

Wow, what a fucking match :mark: :mark: :mark: Was blown away. Unreal.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Woolcock, he is probably out now with a big board pimping it still. 



> Royal Rumble 2001
> Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) (Royal Rumble 2001)
> Steve Austin vs Triple H (2/3 Falls) (No Way Out 2001)
> Kurt Angle vs The Rock (No Way Out 2001)
> ...


possibly a final list, i may add Shane/Vince from Mania.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Luckily i keep a list of what i have, even then i forget what i have.


I keep a list too. :lmao I somehow still forgot. I honestly could have bought the AWA set without knowing I already own it. I should check to see if I have the All Japan and Texas ones. Like, I honestly couldn't tell you right now whether I did or not.


Cal watch more 2008 Henry. 8/19 Hardy match and 9/16 Finlay match first. Curious what you think of the Hardy match from Austria I found, too. I like it a ton(!) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mCy7P7D6M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAghehflh8

Everyone thinks Phil Schneider made a great discovery with Cesca/Catanzarro? HA. This has a fat black sweaty man in it. Does THAT have a fat black sweaty man in it? I mean I still haven't seen it, so it might, but.......screw it.


Have either of you two seen the Austin/Regal strap match from 2001? 6 minutes or so I think but it's gotten love from everyone who's seen it. I might have it, but I haven't seen it. Plus considering I don't even know what I own anymore, I probably don't actually have it. EDIT - only realized now you're doing PPV only. It's like my brain doesn't like me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cal watch more 2008 Henry. 8/19 Hardy match and 9/16 Finlay match first. Curious what you think of the Hardy match from Austria I found, too. I like it a ton(!) :
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mCy7P7D6M
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOAghehflh8
> 
> ...


I'll give the match a download and watch it at some point with those other HENRY matches. Bah, I've got you telling me to watch more HENRY, and Andy just tweeted me and told me to "stop re-watching shite PPVs. Mid-South/Memphis, gobshite." .

Yeah I've seen the Austin/Regal strap match, but it's been years and I remember bugger all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Have either of you two seen the Austin/Regal strap match from 2001? 6 minutes or so I think but it's gotten love from everyone who's seen it. I might have it, but I haven't seen it. Plus considering I don't even know what I own anymore, I probably don't actually have it. EDIT - only realized now you're doing PPV only. It's like my brain doesn't like me.


Na i havn't yet seen it, but i do won a WWF 2001 Set which im still getting through and did notice it so ill add that to my 'watch list' Don't think its online so ill upload it later. 

Austin/Regal also had a match on Raw in Jan with Steph as the ref lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hitman, I appreciate you having that Judgment Day '01 2/3 falls match in your list A LOT. Outside of the first Transformers movie, that's my guiltiest pleasure of all time and I'm proud of it - even if it's not my MOTN and Austin/Taker is 

Speaking of which, in a few moments, I may start this thread's first *RANKING LIST*. :vince


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck. I sat and typed up a big thing on my tablet and it obviously didn't post. Ah well, basically I was saying that I don't see why there's so much fuss surrounding Cena/Wyatt because I personally loved it. I don't think they spammed the 10 counts at all and it felt like they were trying to take each other out with all the big spots; they didn't come across as contrived to me. The Uso/Family section was weird but I can live with it for the table spot alone. The rest of this was fine and while I would have preferred Wyatt go over, it's Cena and this is what Cena does so whatever. It's still a brilliant match and I rate it exactly the same as their Mania match with both at *****1/4*. 

I also got around to NXT Takeover the other day and watched it back again today. Holy damn. Zayn/Breeze and Charlotte/Natalya were both fantastic and I can't separate them. I want to add that the thing I loved most about both matches was the hunger that came across in both stories and it was superbly aided by Regal who sold it beautifully on commentary. I felt it from all 4 of them, they put it across in the story of the matches and Regal was awesome on commentary. Two very similar stories being told imo but both done in different ways. Awesome stuff from NXT once again and I'm probably highest for these but I rank them both at ******. I loved them equally. 

Tl;Dr version:

*Cena/Wyatt LMS - ****1/4
Zayn/Cesaro - ****
Charlotte/Natalya - **** *

(Dat Charlotte Sharpshooter :banderas)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

THE ATF WWF/E PPV MATCH OF THE NIGHT RANKING

MOTN's are subjective, but what the fuck, I decided to rank my MOTN's for each PPV. There have been 301 PPV's throughout history, and with the exception of around 3, maybe 4, all of them had a least one somewhat passable if meh match. The vast majority had at least one GOOD match at that. So, let's dive into history, find some gems and rank the beasts!

*PART 1
(301-281)

(*)
#301: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989









(*3/4)
#300: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993








^ NOT the actual match, there are no pics of that

(**)
#299: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002









#298: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999









(**1/4)
#297: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995









#296: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X









#295: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998









(**1/2)
#294: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985









#293: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999









#292: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986









#291: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded









#290: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999









#289: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom









#288: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003









#287: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990









(**3/4)
#286: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000









#285: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989









#284: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998









#283: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999









#282: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11









#281: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998







*​*
*



Spoiler: List so far



(*)
#301: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
(*3/4)
#300: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
(**)
#299: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#298: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
(**1/4)
#297: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#296: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#295: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
(**1/2)
#294: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#293: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#292: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#291: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#290: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#289: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#288: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#287: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
(**3/4)
#286: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#285: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#284: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#283: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#282: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#281: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

I refuse to believe Zeus could be in a * match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Craig said:


> I refuse to believe Zeus could be in a * match.


I agree. He was never in anything less than *** 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Great seeing Bret and Flair at Takeover. Kris Kristoffoson too lol.

But yeah, Zayn/Breeze was great, I hardly ever watch Divas matches but Charlotte/Natalya was also very good. Onto the main event now.

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----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Great seeing Bret and Flair at Takeover. Kris Kristoffoson too lol.
> 
> But yeah, Zayn/Breeze was great, I hardly ever watch Divas matches but Charlotte/Natalya was also very good. Onto the main event now.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


I didn't think I'd like either match as much as I did. When I watched them for the second time I still loved them both. Charlotte's music makes me :lol. The Ric Flair disco remix.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I agree. He was never in anything less than *** 8*D.


Blasphemy!

Outside of that one match you saw, all of his stuff (which I believe was only one other match) was *****. He was named ZEUS for a reason. He was a WRESTLIN GAWD :jbl

8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Charlotte even does Flair's 'Flip over the turnbuckle' spot lol.

Does she do Flair's 'flop drop' too. 

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----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

She doesn't do the drop but she looks right at Bret and applies the sharpshooter and that >>>>>

:banderas

Awesome moment. Flair crying his eyes out when it's over :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah that moment I was like she can't tap to the fucking Sharpshooter surely, not like that. Glad she didn't, also Flair and Bret's little embrace at the end, would love to have read Bret's mind lol.

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----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Which was the best Jerry Lynn vs. RVD match? I'm sure there's one that gets praised a lot more than any other, I just don't know which one it is. If there's a link somewhere as well, I'd be highly appreciative. )


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Which was the best Jerry Lynn vs. RVD match? I'm sure there's one that gets praised a lot more than any other, I just don't know which one it is. If there's a link somewhere as well, I'd be highly appreciative. )


Living Dangerously or Hardcore Heaven '99 I'd say.

Kidd/Neville was excellent imo, really really enjoyed Takeover. Three top matches. 

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Which was the best Jerry Lynn vs. RVD match? I'm sure there's one that gets praised a lot more than any other, I just don't know which one it is. If there's a link somewhere as well, I'd be highly appreciative. )



Here you go, this was their best IMO and I actually really really like it:






Just FYI: Jerry Lynn actually gets knocked completely unconscious in the match, you'll see the spot when it happens, his head just SMACKS the concrete with that sickening "thud", but he someone manages to complete the match. There is one bad botch right in the end but otherwise I think this was a great match. Last thing, keep in mind this was 1999, before everyone and their sister was working similar face vs face type matches like this on the indies. LMK what you think


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Yeah, so I watched the HH99 match... I hated it, lol.

It was the first ever ECW RVD match I've watched and I simply cannot bare his schtick. Yeah, I get it... You're occky, that doesn't mean 50% of the first ten minutes of the match have to involve you taunting and looking to the crowd. Bill Alfonso is legitimately the most annoying person I've had to put up with whilst watching a wrestling match. The only positive I can come up with for this match is Jerry Lynn being an absolute stud after being knocked out, although can you really call someone getting knocked out a positive? After all, the match would have been better had he not been knocked loopy and had his head in the game for all of the match. A few botches towards the end took me out of the game as well, and I'm not usually bothered about botches... It's just until that point I found nothing I liked whatsoever about the match so the botches affected me more than they would normally. Also, RVD throws some of the worst forearms I've ever seen, barring AR Fox but he's a WOATC anyway.

So yeah, really didn't like it, which is a shame seeing as I see their matches praised a fair bit and I most definitely will not be watching any more of their matches together.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I agree about RVD, I do like watching a fair few of his matches, but when he is constantly doing the 'RVD' shit with his arms, it gets annoying. Like in that tag match I watched the other day against Hayabusa and Shinzaki, he kept bloody doing it.

Oh and Alfonso can take his whistle and shove it up his arse.

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----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

For shame. I was going to recommend their oft-forgotten television match in August of 1999 that differed from all their other bouts. Incredible match based around Lynn's injured ribs. Lynn sells it to perfection and puts on an all-time great babyface performance. The stalling/taunting that RVD does is held to a minimum, and if anything, when he did it it actually helped the match. RVD played a makeshift heel which was pretty cool. And then when Jerry Lynn was going to be carried to the back but then he came back to wrestle, I got wet. The finishing stretch was so hot. I would easily go *****1/2* at it.

Video for those interested:




While I do not agree with Cody's assertion about how Michaels/Benjamin was not good (why is "exhibition-y" a flaw, especially from a Sheamus fan?), the point about Michaels' 2002-2010 run not holding too well holds fairly true. Going through his 2005, Michaels has this weird issue where he wants every match to be about a wrestler working his back, but then Michaels barely puts any effort into selling the after-effects of a wrestler's workover outside of his imitation of drunk people that he does during his comeback sequence. I also don't understand why Shawn always wants to work 15-20 minute matches when there isn't enough interesting stuff going on to carry those matches that long. There was a match I recently watched between him and Carlito that goes on for 17 minutes, and absolutely everything felt so insignificant. And that's what a lot of Shawn's matches around that time felt; lots of insignificant stuff until the comeback sequence. Combine that with otherwise uninteresting offense from Michaels, and it just doesn't hold up. Luckily, I found some Midnight Rockers stuff from his AWA run and it rules.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Fuck Bob Van Dam. It's midday, I just came home from BBQ, and I'm drunk, which means the rest of the daylight means puro and dirty lucha brawls in 240p on youtube.






Thank me later.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure if yes, but I may post Part 2 of my MOTN ranking tonight already. Though I'm pratically on my Summer break now, so I could leave it :hmm:


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

Just dloaded a Best Of Stan Hansen in Japan 8 disc set :banderas



Spoiler: The Lariat



One disc
Stan Hansen vs. The Destroyer (twelve forty, 10/30/75) 
Stan Hansen vs. Andre the Giant (5:27; 5/18/79) 
Stan Hansen vs. NWF Champion Antonio Inoki (8:59; 6.7.79) 
Stan Hansen &? vs. Riki Choshu & Antonio Inoki (ten fifty; 2.1.80) 
Stan Hansen vs. NWF Champion Antonio Inoki (seven past five p.m., 08.02.80) 
Stan Hansen vs. Dusty Rhodes (five forty-two, 5/16/80) 
Stan Hansen vs. Andre the Giant (06/05/80) 
Stan Hansen vs. Antonio Inoki (half past six, 06/05/80) 
Stan Hansen vs. NWF Champion Antonio Inoki (10:46, 9/25/80) 
Stan Hansen vs. World Champion Bob Backlund (16:01, 9/30/80) 
Stan Hansen & Hulk Hogan vs. Antonio Inoki & Bob Backlund (MSG Tag League Finals, 5:27 p.m., 10/12/80)

 Disc Two 
Stan Hansen vs. NWF Champion Antonio Inoki (twenty-three past one p.m., 4/17/81) 
Stan Hansen vs. NWF Champion Antonio Inoki (twelve fifty-five, 5.1.81) 
Stan Hansen & Bobby Duncum vs. Antonio Inoki & Riki Choshu (8:30, 8.5.81) 
Stan Hansen & Hulk Hogan vs. Antonio Inoki & Dusty Rhodes (forty past one p.m., 5/26/81) 
Stan Hansen vs. Antonio Inoki (7:45, 06.04.81) 
Stan Hansen & Hulk Hogan vs. Riki Choshu & Dino Bravo (eight twenty-three, 8/10/81) 
Stan Hansen vs. Killer Khan (6:28, 1/12/81) 
Stan Hansen & Roland Bock vs. Antonio Inoki & Tatsumi Fujinamini (twelve thirty-seven, 12/08/81) 
Stan Hansen & Dick Murdoch vs. Antonio Inoki & Tatsumi Fujinami (MSG Tag League semifinals, twelve past four p.m., 12.10.81) 

Disc Three 
Stan Hansen's return to All Japan at the 1981 Real World Tag League vs Stan Hansen. Ashura Hara (2:25, 1/15/82)
Stan Hansen vs. Shoehi Baba (PWF Title, 04/02/82) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Shoehi Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta (04/20/82) 
Stan Hansen vs. Shoehi Baba (PWF Title, 04/22/82) 
Stan Hansen vs. Shoehi Baba (1.6.82)
Stan Hansen vs. Terry Funk (9.11.82)
Stan Hansen vs. Shoehi Baba (PWF Title, 09/14/82) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Ricky Steamboat & Jay Youngblood (11/26/82) 
Stan Hanson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (12.07.82)
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Giant Baba Shohei (Real World Tag League Tournament Match, twelve twenty-four, 9.12.82) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (Finals, half past twelve, 12/13/82) 

Disc Four 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (04/20/83) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (04/22/83) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody & Terry Gordy vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. Shoehi & Baba (08/30/83) 
Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (08/31/83) 
Stan Hansen vs. PWF Champion Shohei "Giant" Baba (Hansen wins title, nine two, 8.9.83) 
Stan Hansen vs. Dory Funk Jr. (11/28/83)
Stan Hanson vs. The Mongol (08/12/83) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu (Real World Tag League Finals, fifty-four past five p.m., 12/12/83) 
Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Shoehi Baba & Dory Funk Jr (PWF Tag Title, 04/25/84 

Disc Five
Stan Hansen vs. Shoehi Baba (PWF Title, 07/30/85) 
Stan Hansen & Ted Dibiase vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (08 / 29/85) 
Stan Hansen & Ted Dibiase vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (30:00, 12/12/85)
Stan Hanson vs. Genichiro Tenyru (AWA Title, 07/26/86) 
Stan Hanson vs. Jumbo Tsuruta ( AWA v. Int'l Title, 07/31/86)
Stan Hanson vs. Hiroshi Wajima (PWF Title, 04/23/87) 
Stan Hansen & Ted Dibiase vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Tiger Mask (PWF Tag Title, 07/11 / 87 

Six Disc 
Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (PWF Tag Title, 7/29/88) 
Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (Real World Tag League Finals, 9:02 p.m., 12/16/88)
Stan Hanson & Genichiro Tenyru vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (PWF / Int. Ttitles Tag, 10/20/89) 
Stan Hansen & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Davey Boy Smith & Dynamite Kid (Real World Tag League Match, twenty-eight past six p.m., 11/17/89) 
Stan Hansen & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Nasty Boys (Real World Tag League Match, seven fourteen, 04.12.89) 
Stan Hansen & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu (Finals, 28:57, 12.6.89) 

Disc Seven
Stan Hansen vs. Hulk Hogan (4/14/90)
Stan Hansen & Dan Spivey vs. Jumbo Tsuruta & Kenta Kobashi (thirty-two past six p.m., 4/17/90) 
Stan Hansen vs. IWGP Heavyweight Champion Big Van Vader (10:11 p.m., 12.06.90) 
Triple Crown Champion Stan Hansen vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (04.03.92) 
Stan Hansen vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (Champion Carnival Finals, six past eight p.m., 4/17/92) 
Stan Hansen vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (8:26 p.m., 4/21/93) 

Disc Eight
Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (7/31/93)
Stan Hansen vs. Steve Williams (thirty-five past four p.m., 4/14/94) 
Stan Hansen vs. Triple Crown Champion Toshiaki Kawada (31:26, 3/4/95) 
Stan Hansen & Gary Albright vs. Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue (World Tag Titles, 1/24/96) 
Stan Hansen & Vader vs. Kenta Kobashi & Johnny Ace (10:12 p.m., 05/01/98) 
Stan Hansen's Retirement Ceremony (1/28/01)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cleavage said:


> Just dloaded a Best Of Stan Hansen in Japan 8 disc set :banderas


Been wanting to get that for ages. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Posted this before, but after nicking an idea from Cal, decides to put together a 'Best Of 2001 WWF PPV Matches'
> 
> 
> 
> Any essentials missing?


Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit - King of the Ring 2001


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit - King of the Ring 2001


Was thinking of that but I thought everyone gave that a bad rap? I'll have to re watch. 

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----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Austin vs Jericho vs Benoit - King of the Ring 2001


:lmao

I mean...

:lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was thinking of adding Angle/Benoit from Wrestlemania but im not a big fan of it, plus I already have their Judgement Day and Backlash matches included.

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----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah, I don't like that triple threat either. Thought it was good at first but last I rewatched, it was dull as fuck and the injuries were the most interesting part of it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Austin vs Undertaker - Backlash 2002

Or I could post Cal's review of Vengeance 2004 and have the same reaction at a first thoughts too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can actually understand the line of thinking behind the favorable review to Austin/Taker. The real question mark is how Rock/Undertaker from NWO 2002 is rated higher than Cena/Lesnar and Bryan/Cena.

Anyone else like the Mysterio/Batista tag team? I really enjoy their matches with MNM, Jerishow and Kane/Show. Those two had great chemistry as a tag team and Batista worked so well as the enforcer while Mysterio rules when he's doing his thing for 90% of the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker vs Austin is probably the most putrid thing to come from wrestling that wasn't obviously going to be awful. It gets that overblown degree b/c of who was involved & how much it actually irritates me while I watch. I can't hang w/it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Or I could post Cal's review of Vengeance 2004 and have the same reaction at a first thoughts too.


What's up with my V04 ramblings?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tajiri's match is poor & Benoit vs Triple H sucks, so I'm saying I disagree 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Tajiri's match is poor & Benoit vs Triple H sucks, so I'm saying I disagree 8*D


Didn't even know Generico vs Liger fucking existed.  Can't find a link. 

EDIT: Just realised i have it on a Best of comp :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Tajiri's match is poor & Benoit vs Triple H sucks, so I'm saying I disagree 8*D


You suck McBain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Hitman said:


> Didn't even know Generico vs Liger fucking existed.  Can't find a link.
> 
> EDIT: Just realised i have it on a Best of comp :mark:


oh yeah it does:










:mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Really wish we could of got Vader/Savage before Vader left WCW. 

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----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Really wish we could of got Vader/Savage before Vader left WCW.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


That's a good one, but I REALLY wish we could have gotten Vader/Benoit before Leon left for the WWE. That match could have set a level for outright physicality that it's doubtful anyone else would reach. I don't think they ever wrestled in Japan either because Vader was always AJPW and Benoit was NJPW.

Speaking of old Leon, I've been on quite the Vader binge since listening to his podcast with Steve on Thursday. I've watched a ton of his UWFi stuff from a set Zep sent me, and now I just found this and decided to give it a watch, it's my favorite match Vader ever had with Cactus Jack:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Liger/Generico kada


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Liger/Generico kada


When i watch it, ill try and upload if anyone wants.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could have swore I told someone in here to watch that vader/foley, I think it was you cjack ? Anyways yea check it out

and Hbk/Benjamin sucks
---

Watched MITB "All-Stars", its decent, the first 5 mins were abit dull and awkward but then it hits its groove. Cant ask for more out of a MITB tbh, so wasnt overly critical and it did its job. Sheamus was awesome in this one though, helped so much in the dull parts. The Punk/Bryan thing was cool and Yikes Heyman wacks him w/ that ladder @ the end. LOL @ The ref signaling Orton its his time to get up and go get the briefcase for the win :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Rick & Scott Steiner vs Tatsumi Fujinami & Tayayuki Iizuka (WCW Wrestle War 05/17/92)*

Watch that for those who havn't. One of my fave tag matches.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I hate people who hate the Steiners.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lmao

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----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ATF can your next project be ranking every Gorgeous George match? I've heard he was a really good worker.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Funaki!


Finished up 2005 with the Orton/Taker Armageddon 2005 HIAC match. Great match, but man it's crazy to think that we could have been centimeters away from Undertaker or Randy Orton contracting Hepatitis from that match. Now that is scarier than getting thrown off the cell. I remember when it was first announced on the dirtsheets that Bob Orton had Hepatitis, people were talking about how Undertaker was going to sue the WWE for millions. Apparently the responsibility (or lack thereof) for this situation fell on good ol' John Laurinaitis. I did once read about how in the document briefs for the WWE Steroid trial in the early 90s, apparently Vince McMahon contracted Hepatitis as well. Does anyone know anything about this? Obviously, it doesn't seem to be too true considering how often the man bladed, but it's worth a small discussion.

But Funaki :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

OK so today's a public holiday and I practically can't do anything other than watch Seinfeld (HA he stuffed the mutton in the pockets) and obsessively check for video games online (and wait for people to respond to me about QUERIES). While my computer's going to be on for a long ass time today, does anybody want any specific match uploaded? Something you can't find? I might have it.


edit - I mean uploading to youtube, FWIW.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Two random and obscure lucha brawls.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Someone requested it in another thread, but Flair/Steamboat Boogie Jam 84 ?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> Two random and obscure lucha brawls.


IDK about obscure but I've already uploaded these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGC1WA2CIls
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-11WTPkv_RI


Will try to get the Steamboat DVD rip done.....I put in the wrong disc.

edit - handbrake isn't ripping the DVD, dunno what's going on.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> OK so today's a public holiday and I practically can't do anything other than watch Seinfeld (HA he stuffed the mutton in the pockets) and obsessively check for video games online (and wait for people to respond to me about QUERIES). While my computer's going to be on for a long ass time today, does anybody want any specific match uploaded? Something you can't find? I might have it.
> 
> 
> edit - I mean uploading to youtube, FWIW.



Do you have any Eddie as Black Tiger matches from Japan that are really good? I really haven't seen much at all of his work for NJPW.


Or any really good Funk match that you think the world will be better for having watched. Either or


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Some 1970s Portland or Necro Butcher or AWA Rockers would be swell, please. If neither, then Mark Henry house show matches will do.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Y'ALL SHOULD BE SPECIFIC IDK WHAT TO UPLOAD

I can't get the Steamboat DVD to work. It's recognized it after a minutes, but doesn't actually rip anything. Don't think I've ripped from WWE DVD since 2009.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok guys, who has the most matches available online? I really want to binge watch Hansen or Funk and do a project but who has the most matches readily available? Thanks in advance


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I wanna say Funk but I dont 100% know


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I just finished watching Undertaker/Batista vs HBK/Cena from NWO 07. FUCK I forgot how awesome this match was. It was so unique and different. 

A full **** for it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Do you have any Eddie as Black Tiger matches from Japan that are really good? I really haven't seen much at all of his work for NJPW.
> 
> 
> Or any really good Funk match that you think the world will be better for having watched. Either or


This one:


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Finished up 2005 with the Orton/Taker Armageddon 2005 HIAC match. Great match, but man it's crazy to think that we could have been centimeters away from Undertaker or Randy Orton contracting Hepatitis from that match. Now that is scarier than getting thrown off the cell. I remember when it was first announced on the dirtsheets that Bob Orton had Hepatitis, people were talking about how Undertaker was going to sue the WWE for millions. Apparently the responsibility (or lack thereof) for this situation fell on good ol' John Laurinaitis. I did once read about how in the document briefs for the WWE Steroid trial in the early 90s, apparently Vince McMahon contracted Hepatitis as well. Does anyone know anything about this? Obviously, it doesn't seem to be too true considering how often the man bladed, but it's worth a small discussion.


I dunno, but a lot of weird stuff came out of the steroid trial. I remember there being some ordeal over Hogan faking an HIV test.



> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 01:14:51 GMT
> 
> 
> In fact, tonight's "Current Affair" ran a story on the HIV test
> ...


http://rspw.org/tidbits/tidbits.940428

Being that Hogan's bladed since then, one would hope that Hogan doesn't have HIV. Maybe he just had a scare or was concerned that he could _possibly_ have it at the time, and didn't want to take the chance of having that confirmed.


I don't really care about things becoming more corporate in terms of cleaning up sex, cursing, etc. But blading is the one thing I do miss. After reading some of this stuff, I can't really blame them. Though I guess they could just have their wrestlers get tested often, but they want to avoid all of this altogether.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> Two random and obscure lucha brawls.


You ever watch Chico Che/Black Terry?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Have either of you two seen the Austin/Regal strap match from 2001? 6 minutes or so I think but it's gotten love from everyone who's seen it. I might have it, but I haven't seen it. Plus considering I don't even know what I own anymore, I probably don't actually have it.


*Steve Austin vs William Regal (Strap Match) (Smackdown 11.22.2001)*

x1yxr05


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> Liger/Generico kada


*El Generico vs Jushin Liger (Kurt RusselMania)*

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1yxzv6_elgvslig_sport


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> OK so today's a public holiday and I practically can't do anything other than watch Seinfeld (HA he stuffed the mutton in the pockets) and obsessively check for video games online (and wait for people to respond to me about QUERIES). While my computer's going to be on for a long ass time today, does anybody want any specific match uploaded? Something you can't find? I might have it.
> 
> 
> edit - I mean uploading to youtube, FWIW.


John Cena vs. the Rock II, The Epic Rematch (WrestleMania XXIX)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Once in a Lifetime, man. Let that memory rest as is.

funnyfaces wanted these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSywEN423Pg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMEloYxx20Y


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Should upload the other two matches too, concluding with the Tuxedo match. There is also a recap video on the Mid South set i think.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

Just for fun, here are my Top Ten Favorite Matches of 2014 and my picks for the Top Ten Worst Matches of 2014 (so far). 

My Top Ten Favorite Matches of 2014: 
1) The Shield Vs. The Wyatts (Elimination Chamber) = What happens when you have two seemingly unstoppable three-man factions built up over a lengthy period of time? The fans will want to see them fight. From the moment The Wyatts debuted in the WWE, talk of a Shield/Wyatts showdown began. They teased it a little bit towards the end of 2013, but then halted on it and once the plans for Wrestlemania took shape, it looked like this match wasn’t going to happen. Well, they managed to fit it in between the cracks at Elimination Chamber, and the end result was pure joy for me. When the fans are chanting “This is awesome” before the two teams have even touched each other, you know you made something very cool happen. The match displayed the strengths of both factions and resulted in an exciting and insane bout that lived up to my already high expectations. 

2) Daniel Bryan Vs. Triple H (Wrestlemania XXX) = Fans & critics always said that Bret Vs. Owen at X was the unquestioned best opener in Wrestlemania history. Well, at the very least, this match removes “unquestioned” from that distinction as Daniel Bryan & Triple H went out there and kicked off Wrestlemania with a huge bang. It was a match that was months in the making as Daniel Bryan tried to overcome every obstacle to get back to the main event/World Title status. The disaster of the Royal Rumble ultimately led to this situation being crafted where the winner of this match would be inserted into the main event and challenge for the World Title in a Triple Threat match. Daniel’s ultimate goal was on the line and he had to beat the boss to get there. It was a perfect set up and the end result was a perfect match with great drama and action. Bryan beating Triple H put it over the top and gave it the satisfying conclusion we all wanted. 

3) Daniel Bryan Vs. Bray Wyatt (Royal Rumble) = For a show that was almost a complete disaster, I think most of us would agree that Bryan Vs. Wyatt in the show’s opener was an outstanding contest. It was really the match that made Bray Wyatt as his victory over Bryan after that hard fought outing seemed to put him over the top as a character. The action and counters of the match perfectly captured the strengths of the characters as well, and when you have a great heel and a great babyface, magic usually happens, and it did on this night. 

4) John Cena Vs. Cesaro (Raw) = This match seemingly came out of nowhere, but was huge in establishing a starting point for Cesaro’s push. Cena won, as he almost always does. We expected that. What we didn’t expect was that Cesaro’s full ability, skill, and strength would be on full display. Even in defeat, the point was made to the audience that Cesaro could hang with the main event players. It was amazing to watch and credit to Cena for allowing Cesaro to look so strong in this showing. The counters in this match were also very creative and only added to the excitement. This went from being a “yeah yeah, I know Cena is going to win” match to being a “Oh my Goodness! I don’t know who is going to win! Go Cesaro!”. 

5) Tyler Breeze Vs. Sammi Zahn (NXT Takeover) = I had never seen Tyler Breeze before this match and I was thoroughly impressed with every aspect of his performance. The way he talks. The way he carries himself as a character, and obviously, the shocking amount of poise he has in the ring. I can’t remember the last time I was this impressed with somebody on a first viewing. I had already known the talent of one El Generico, so I expected at least a solid outing here, but I was blown away by what these two were able to put together. Tyler looked like a star in the making and Sammi continued to show why he was such a hot independent star for the years that preceded his time in NXT. It was an outstanding contest that highlighted all the strengths of Sammi Zahn and made me a huge fan of Tyler Breeze. What is there not to love about that? 

6) The Shield Vs. Evolution (Extreme Rules) = In The Shield’s list of amazing six man tag team matches, we got this big time match that pitted them against one of the most celebrated factions in WWE history. The end result was yet another exciting six man war as The Shield’s ability was on full display the entire match, and the growing excitement led to a fantastic climax to what was an all-around exciting match. 

7) Randy Orton Vs. Batista Vs. Daniel Bryan (Wrestlemania XXX) = After the heartbreak at Summerslam, the initial build up that followed, and then the combined fiasco of Batista’s return and the Royal Rumble, this was the situation the fans wanted: Daniel Bryan getting his big spot in the main event of Wrestlemania and winning the title. For that satisfaction alone, this match has to make the list for me. It was well done and I loved how they kept teasing that they were going to yank it from us time and time again (DB on the stretcher, HHH’s interference, Batista almost stealing the win, etc) because it only made the payoff that much sweeter. 

8) Charlotte Vs. Natalya (NXT Takeover) = A good women’s match? Surely you jest! There were several things that impressed me about NXT Takeover and one of them was this outstanding match between the niece of Bret Hart and the daughter of Ric Flair. Based on this match alone, it certainly does appear that they inherited quite a bit from their relatives from the past generation. It was a well wrestled, smooth flowing, and exciting match that highlighted just how good a women’s match can be when you have the right girls in the right situation, and allowing them the chance to shine without restrictions. It was a beautiful match to watch. 

9) The Shield Vs. The Wyatts (1st Rematch after ER) = Hey, it was so nice, why not do it twice. Normally, I don’t like having quick rematches piled on top of each other, but I loved the first match so much that I was willing to experience it again quickly afterwards. They went out there and had another outstanding six man match once again, and I couldn’t be happier about that. 

10) John Cena Vs. Bray Wyatt: Last Man Standing Match (Payback) = Despite some insanity like The Usos & Wyatts hijacking the match with the referee completely ignoring Brey being down and not counting, or the typical “Cena wins again” BS that we have become accustomed too, this was fun to watch. The brutality on display here was more than I would have expected, and it was nice that they were able to craft an exciting match out of a feud that I had lost all interest in. 

Worst Matches of 2014: 

1) Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble) = It is hard to imagine that a big annual spectacle like the Royal Rumble match would be the worst match of the year, but thus far, I believe that to be the case. This was an unmitigated disaster that blew up in the WWE's face that ultimately led to whatever the plan was for Wrestlemania to be scrapped. The decision was so questionable; one has to wonder if the WWE planned to get this reaction on purpose just to enact what ultimately took place at Wrestlemania XXX. I don’t blame people for thinking that because in hindsight, I want to believe it too because I can’t believe that the WWE brass truly thought this was going to work. 

The fan revolt during the closing minutes of this match was unbelievable to watch as they clearly were expecting (or at the very least wishing for) Daniel Bryan to be an entrant in the Royal Rumble. When the buzzer for number 30 hit, and he didn't come out, the verbal massacre began. Rey Mysterio, the unlucky sap who went out there at 30 as the living confirmation of Daniel Bryan's exclusion, got booed out of the building. That negativity carried over to the eventual winner, Batista, who was set up to make a hero's return. It didn’t quite work out that way as he was initially greeted with apathy. Once it became clear that Bryan was not in the match and Batista was going to win, the crowd went from apathetic to hate filled, and it wasn't pretty. 

The residual effects of this decision were numerous and staggering. It was the worst Royal Rumble match in years, the Wrestlemania plans had to be almost entirely changed, and CM Punk departed from the company the next day. They ended up fixing the situation by putting Daniel Bryan in the star spot at Wrestlemania XXX, but it came after the fans’ sheer blunt force trauma. They unequivocally told the WWE “We hate this” and it led to major changes. If there is a plus side to this, at least the WWE demonstrated some willingness to listen to the fans. 

2) The Undertaker Vs. Brock Lesnar (Wrestlemania XXX) = Even if I were to disregard the result of the match, this outing would still make the list. Undertaker’s Wrestlemania matches had become increasingly predictable. After 21-0, you knew Undertaker was going to win and you knew there were going to be kick outs of every single finisher, including the Tombstone. It was starting to lack in drama, but at the very least, we could expect a strong effort from The Dead Man that would yield an exciting match. That was not the case this year. Having suffered a concussion early in the match, Taker looked off balance, older, and slower. He didn’t look like The Undertaker of old, and the end result was a sloppy and boring match that only made me second guess whether or not Taker should still be doing this. 

What puts this match over the top though was the outcome. The Streak ended in the most underwhelming and anti-climactic of situations. In a match that was horribly built up and pitted Undertaker against an already established part timer that didn’t look that good in said buildup, the streak finally comes to an end in a poorly worked and boring match. With over two decades worth of build put into the streak, this could have been one of the greatest climaxes in the history of wrestling, and a huge star maker for a new character, but it turned out to be a confusing misstep that felt like it had no other purpose for happening besides catching the fans off guard. Brock Lesnar has not appeared on TV since the night after Wrestlemania, which only furthers my bewilderment of why you would give a win to a character that isn’t even going to be there to reap the benefits of it. 

3) John Cena Vs. Bray Wyatt: Steel Cage (Extreme Rules) = The steel cage match has been devalued more and more as the years have gone on. Between TNA’s Lockdown event shoehorning eight of them onto one card, outside interference coming into play far too often, & the feuds frequently not warranting a cage, the steel cage match doesn’t seem as special as it used too. Well, this match honestly made me wish that I would never see another cage match ever again. It contained every problem with modern day cage matches and amplified it to the Nth degree. The Wyatts interfered so much that it felt like a handicap match, completely negating the purpose of the structure altogether. There were many points during the match where I was saying “Why is he climbing when he could pin him?” or “Why go to the other side of the ring to climb, when the door is right there?” and various other problems. It doesn’t help that the feud by this point wasn’t making any sense and it felt like they just wanted to extend it for the sake of keeping Cena busy before moving him back into the main event/world title scene. 

4) John Cena Vs. Randy Orton (Royal Rumble) = Building off of the fan’s Royal Rumble revolt I mentioned earlier, another example of that was the event’s World Title match. By this point, I felt like I had seen Cena & Orton have every kind of match you could possibly imagine: Iron Man, Hell in a Cell, TLC, I Quit, No Holds Barred, Last Man Standing, Elimination Chambers, Tag Bouts, 3 Ways, 4 Ways, and sometimes at big shows like countless Raws, Wrestlemania, Summerslam, & now the Royal Rumble. I was bored with it and to be honest, I was never a huge fan of their series in the first place. Apparently, the live audience felt the same way I did because they could not have possibly cared any less about what felt like the 1000th outing between the two. Heck, they even built this match up by having Orton beat up Cena’s dad, which is such an overused story point for Cena feuds that even something as serious as having his father get hospitalized feels like old hat. You’d think he’d stop having his dad sit in the front row by this point. Anyways, what surprised me most about this match was that after the crowd clearly voiced their sheer boredom with this pairing, WWE turned around and had them square off again on Raw not long after! And yes, that match was greeted with an almost identical response. They could kick out of a 1000 finishers and it still didn’t matter. The WWE Universe just couldn’t feign interest in this at all. To say the Cena/Orton feud had been milked for all it was worth would be an understatement. The milk ran dry years ago and this match at the Royal Rumble was just a painful reminder of that. 

5) Batista Vs. Alberto Del Rio (Elimination Chamber) = Part of the reason I don’t believe that the WWE planned the Batista Rumble win to bomb with the fans so they could work us and set up their grand plan for Wrestlemania 30 is that following the Rumble, they still tried to run with Batista as a face. To say that didn’t work would be putting it mildly. I laughed at how they avoided putting Batista out in the arena just to avoid the negative reactions. The feud with Del Rio only served to prove that the reaction at the Royal Rumble was not a one-time thing. The WWE fans everywhere HATED Batista, and they were going to let the WWE know about it. Following this match, which was once again greeted with jeers and negative chants like “Boo-Tista!”, the WWE had no choice but to turn Batista heel because a face run clearly wasn’t going to work. 

6) New Age Outlaws Vs. Rhodes Brothers: Steel Cage Match (Raw) = Is it just me or has the tag team division not recovered from the ill-advised NAO title reign? Seriously, we had a deep division with plenty of teams, lots of focus, and exciting teams moving up the rankings. Once the Outlaws got the belts, it seemed like that all went down the drain just to get a nostalgia run out of them and the tag division hasn’t quite recovered as the title matches have gone back to PreShow duties. This of course comes after a 2013 where the tag division was arguably the most exciting part of WWE programming, which hadn’t been the case for years. 

Anyways, they gave a new run to the New Age Outlaws and the proceeded to have the same exact match they always had back in their heyday. Seriously, I could almost call all of their matches spot for spot, they were so repetitive. That was back in their prime! Now, it is just sad to see two guys in their forties act like it is still 1998. It was also disheartening to have The Rhodes Brothers, who really come on strong at the end of the year with a great storyline and an awesome feud with The Shield, to get thrown to the wayside to make room for a nostalgia run that served almost no purpose. I say ALMOST no purpose because they did drop the belts to The Usos, but even then, I would have rather seen the Usos beat a more exciting team rather than a relic. 

So building off of my lack of interest for The Outlaws and the problems I have with modern day cage matches, this match was almost bound to tick me off. Of course The Outlaws went over, further their inexplicable reign. The match had other problems though, like almost the enti9re match being a standard “tag in-tag out” format. Why would that be the structure of a cage match? I’ve seen it before, and I never understood it. Why even have the cage if you are just going to tag in and out? Shouldn’t a Cage match be an all-out war? And the weaknesses of The Outlaws as workers shined through here with Road Dogg not catching Cody right on the moonsault, and just them being unable to keep up with Cody & Goldust. Thank heavens The Outlaws are no longer on WWE because I just couldn’t stand it. 

7) Rob Van Dam Vs. Alberto Del Rio (Beat the Clock from Raw) = I know Rob Van Dam has slowed down considerably, but wow. He didn’t even look like he used to be Rob Van Dam after this match. Typical RVD matches have that same repetitive “set my watch” feeling that The Outlaws did and they have for years, but at least the spots look cool. Here, RVD looked like he was struggling to hit his typical trademark stuff like the Rolling Thunder. It was a little disheartening to see. 

8) Titus O'Neil Vs. Darren Young (Elimination Chamber) = First of all, why even break up The Primtime Players? There was literally no upside to this decision. Both guys faded into obscurity almost immediately after they did it and the tag division had one less tag team to work with. People seemed to like the team, so why not keep them together? At the very least, their presence adds depth to the Tag Team Division. What’s wrong with that? Even if it was a good idea to have them feud, the split was rushed, the feud was rushed, and the match was dull & boring as a result. I’ve seen tag team splits done very well, but this one made just about every mistake you possibly could make when handling such a feud. They didn’t give a good reason for Titus to turn on Darren, the turn came out of nowhere, and they rushed the match to the next PPV before anyone could even digest that the team had even split. It was horribly handled from start to finish. 

9) Batista Vs. Seth Rollins (Raw) = It turns out turning Batista heel didn’t fix all of the problems with him. He was still in ghastly ring shape and would blow up almost right from the starting bell. In this particular match, he couldn’t even bump and feed properly for Seth’s comeback. Seth is great and can usually get a good match out of anybody, but he can only do so much. 

10) Brock Lesnar Vs. The Big Show (Royal Rumble) = So Brock Lesnar is a special appearance guy. For one of his rare appearances, let us have him fight a guy that he had at least a 1000 matches with back in 2003 and then have that match be a ridiculous squash. If they had done something like this with Rusev, I would understand it a little bit more, but this is Brock Lesnar. We already know he’s a monster, and like I said, his appearances are rare, so this just felt wasteful. How much does Lesnar get paid per appearance anyway? If it is as high as I am assuming, then after this night, I’d say Brock made out like a bandit. In 2014, I think the money he made off this night might only be rivaled by Dennis Leary’s appearance in “The Amazing Spider-Man 2”in deciding who earned the easiest paycheck of the year.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

You didn't like Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival? Agreed with most of the list otherwise.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I actually enjoyed the Batista/Rollins match if I'm thinking of the right one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> You didn't like Cesaro/Zayn from Arrival? Agreed with most of the list otherwise.


I'm pretty sure he said in his videos that Takeover was his NXT debut. Which I assume means he hasn't watched it at all.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

ATF said:


> I'm pretty sure he said in his videos that Takeover was his NXT debut. Which I assume means he hasn't watched it at all.


Bingo!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*THE ATF WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

To avoid any spoilers for the list, I recommend you watch Part 1 first:
Part 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35168058-post1158.html

Also, I forgot about 1 PPV, so the list actually stands at 302 matches, not 301 as original. Therefore, 281, the number that would supposedly finish Part 1, is actually the starter here, since the other one closed with the actual 282. Basic maths, I guess you get it.

PART 2
(281-261)

#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997









#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4









#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991









(***)
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1









#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991









#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2









#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15









#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992









#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001









#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000









#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002









#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006









#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003









#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009









#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006









#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000









#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004









#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012









#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006









(***1/4)
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999









#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989








*​


Spoiler: List so far



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Wait... So for this list, have you watched every single WWE PPV top to bottom? :hmm:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I know Meltz gets a lot of shit, and rightfully so, but i found a 5 STAR MATCH LIST:



> All Japan Pro Wrestling: 35 Matches
> * 12/08/84 Stan Hansen & Bruiser Brody vs. Dory Funk & Terry Funk
> * 03/09/85 Tiger Mask II vs. Kuniaki Kobayashi
> * 01/28/86 Jumbo Tsuruta and Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu and Yoshiaki Yatsu
> ...


Might give peeps some ideas to watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Flux said:


> Wait... So for this list, have you watched every single WWE PPV top to bottom? :hmm:


Yup. Well, throughout time that is, but you get the idea. You won't believe the shit I put myself through. I could've been just getting a blowjob from my girlfriend or be playing South Park Stick of Truth, but NOPE. All because I just have too much free time even when I was in school period.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> I know Meltz gets a lot of shit, and rightfully so, but i found a 5 STAR MATCH LIST:
> 
> 
> 
> Might give peeps some ideas to watch.



That's not a complete list either! Meltzer gave Punk/Cena MitB 5 stars along with Elgin/Richards and Ishii/Shibata. Here is what I use to find matches when I'm stumped:

http://www.profightdb.com/top-rated-matches.html


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's not a complete list either! Meltzer gave Punk/Cena MitB 5 stars along with Elgin/Richards and Ishii/Shibata. Here is what I use to find matches when I'm stumped:
> 
> http://www.profightdb.com/top-rated-matches.html


Cool. Thanks for that too.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Yeah that listing doesn't look complete, if it's Meltzer's. Pretty sure there are a good bit more of WWF/E matches that Dave gave the full 5. EDIT: Ninja'd.

Cody's thoughts on a Michael Elgin match getting ***** pls.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's not a complete list either! Meltzer gave Punk/Cena MitB 5 stars along with Elgin/Richards and Ishii/Shibata. Here is what I use to find matches when I'm stumped:
> 
> http://www.profightdb.com/top-rated-matches.html


I will also second Profightdb as a source because not only does it give a general list there but you can also individually look up the vast majority of a wrestler's work in major promotions and really be able to isolate a wrestler's time period if you have an idea ie: if someone wanted to watch Benoit's matches from 02-04, they could click on the years segregated on profightdb.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Michael Elgin is the worst guy in the indys behind AR Fox tbh

Edit: Or rather the worst guy on the indys who has some form of notoriety and fame

Edit Edit: A definitive five star list is something I've wanted to work on for a while,. I've just never really known where to start. I guarantee I'd be a ridiculous amount of matches in it, could already name a load without even thinking. I guess that list is a good place to start in terms of adding more, and that link. I suppose seeing as I go on and off with the star system it would just be a list of matches I deem OMGABSOLUTEAMAZEBALLSEPICSHIT, but whatever.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

> * 01/29/93 Rey Misterio Jr, Winners and Super Calo vs Psicosis, Heavy Metal and El Picudo


This is one of the worst matches ever, btw. It's on DVDVR's Best of 90s Lucha, and it's so lelworthy, did the 7-year olds pick the matches?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Michael Elgin is the worst wrestler on the planet. 

Maybe.


EDIT: okay, not really.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Only if Kyle O'Reilly learns how to apply holds.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> This is one of the worst matches ever, btw. It's on DVDVR's Best of 90s Lucha, and it's so lelworthy, did the 7-year olds pick the matches?



I'm a massive fan of Eddie, but no way in the world would I EVER give that Gringos Locos vs Octagon and Hijo del Santo tag anywhere near 5 stars. I actually didn't think it was even good. Maybe I'm alone in that regard, I've seen tons of people heap praise on it but I've never understood it. There are so many botches....it's a below average from all the Lucha tags I've seen.

Worst active wrestler? I've never seen Michael Elgin, Eddie Edwards, or Kyle O Reilly wrestle, so I'd have to say Kofi Kingston. He's the antithesis of everything I hate about a lot of modern wrestling.

Worst wrestler ever? Tom Magee, hands down. If you gave me a week of pro wrestling training I'm almost positive I could pull off a better match than he ever had in his entire career if I had a decent opponent. He was beyond awful.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Speaking of overrated Lucha matches, Panther/Astro is rubbish. I am probably the sole person to think that, nor unable find any positives in Super Astro, but fuck it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Excellent TV match upload:

*Arn Anderson vs Ricky Steamboat (WCW Pro 03.28.1992)*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Helmsley said:


> Yeah that listing doesn't look complete, if it's Meltzer's. Pretty sure there are a good bit more of WWF/E matches that Dave gave the full 5. EDIT: Ninja'd.
> 
> Cody's thoughts on a Michael Elgin match getting ***** pls.


I was going to target his ROH section just for that mention 8*D



> Michael Elgin is the worst guy in the indys behind AR Fox tbh


<3


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Honestly the only Elgin match Ive seen is that triple threat with Okada and Styles, that was good although he seemed to bog it down a little bit. Doesnt have much charisma and has a pretty shitty look to.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Same, Smitty. I've only seen the triple threat from the last PPV, which I enjoyed.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Watched Guerrero Vs. Malenko from Hostile City Showdown. WHAT A MATCH!

- Vic


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Speaking of overrated Lucha matches, Panther/Astro is rubbish. I am probably the sole person to think that, nor unable find any positives in Super Astro, but fuck it.


WUT


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Vic Capri said:


> Watched Guerrero Vs. Malenko from Hostile City Showdown. WHAT A MATCH!
> 
> - Vic



Is that the 2/3 Falls match they work to a draw while the crowd chants "PLEASE DONT GO, PLEASE DONT GO" the whole time?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> Is that the 2/3 Falls match they work to a draw while the crowd chants "PLEASE DONT GO, PLEASE DONT GO" the whole time?


Yeah! I didn't know until today that Eddie Guerrero came out to Pearl Jam's "Animal". How awesome is that? :

- Vic


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Watching Kenta Kobashi matches. Starting with the KENTA match from NOAH in 9/2004, then I've got a Vader match from AJPW in 2000. Any recs?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A video of Meng talking about canoeing.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Helmsley said:


> Watching Kenta Kobashi matches. Starting with the KENTA match from NOAH in 9/2004, then I've got a Vader match from AJPW in 2000. Any recs?


Kenta Kobashi vs Samoa Joe ROH


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao So far in my 1996 watch, Savio Vega of all people has had a better in-ring year than Bret Hart! Man the roster in the beginning of the year was STACKED. Bret, Shawn, Owen, Vader, Diesel, Sid, 1-2-3, Ramon, Goldust, Piper, Foley, Austin, Yokozuna, and Bulldog. That's a strong cast of characters. Too bad that it didn't produce results. And how can I forget HAKUSHI?

Looks like nobody watched RAW I'm guessing. Sheamus/Barrett was very good and Shield/Cena vs. Wyatts was wonderful as always. All the Shield members killed it on the mic. Ok show, but the third hour was very empty. Good to see Swagger finally beat Santino too.

EDIT: Roddy Piper just called himself a lesbian :lol


----------



## peep4life (Jun 1, 2005)

Helmsley said:


> Watching Kenta Kobashi matches. Starting with the KENTA match from NOAH in 9/2004, then I've got a Vader match from AJPW in 2000. Any recs?


Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue 6/9/95

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

So about a week or 2 ago a user posted a best of 2001 list of all of these great ppv matches from 2001. I've cruised though the pages and used the search function to no luck, so I was just wondering if anyone could direct me to that list?

I am currently compiling a list of matches to watch and rewatch on the network. Some matches include:

Y2J v HHH Fully loaded
Owen hart v. 123 kid KOTR 94
Benoit v. Regal No Mercy 06 (which taker-Kennedy has me currently sidetracked)
Bret hart v. Stone cold survivor series 96
Kurt angle v. Hhh royal rumble 01
Edge v. Cena summerslam 06
Austin v. Benoit v. Jericho KOTR 01

Please suggest matches to add to this list. I didn't watch the product 01 - 06. Watched 96 onward consistently otherwise. Gimme some al snow gems, ecw favorites, classic wcw Japanese matches, old school Luger, wwe rvd, what the fuck ever. Gimme shot to watch. Dean. Perry. I love it all.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Benoit/Jericho vs Austin/Trips for the tag titles from Raw 2001- the one where HHH tears his quad.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Booker T and Goldust vs The Unamericans - Summerslam 2002
Jeff Hardy vs The Undertaker - Ladder Match - Raw 2002
Big Show vs. Brock Lesnar - Steetcher Match - Judgement Day 2003

Dont ask me why I chose these three, but theyre all great


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Lesnar/Taker HIAC from No Mercy 2002, Eddie/Lesnar from No Way Out 2004 and Angle/Mysterio Summerslam 2002 as well.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

KidCharlamagne said:


> So about a week or 2 ago a user posted a best of 2001 list of all of these great ppv matches from 2001. I've cruised though the pages and used the search function to no luck, so I was just wondering if anyone could direct me to that list?
> 
> I am currently compiling a list of matches to watch and rewatch on the network. Some matches include:
> 
> ...


Yeah, that was me. I was only counting the 2001 WWF PPV Matches though:


> Royal Rumble 2001
> Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho (Ladder Match) (Royal Rumble 2001)
> Steve Austin vs Triple H (2/3 Falls) (No Way Out 2001)
> Kurt Angle vs The Rock (No Way Out 2001)
> ...


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> WUT


Okay, rubbish is a bit harsh. Canek/Mascaras is what's rubbish, but I'm not sure I understand where any of the praise for Panther/Astro comes from. I can get that I'm alone in that notion, so it's probably an issue on my side, yet everything beyond, say, 3/4 of the primera caida was hard to stomach. Panther's channeling this comedic, over-bumping loon that I do not like in the slightest while Astro is delivering some poo-poo offence and backjump headbutts that need to just fucking die. I'm honestly not high on Astro as a singles worker (would love match recommendations to change that), but I do think there's a decent enough match between them if they step away from this prototypical, early 90's main event/Rayo De Jalisco bullshit that they seemed to be stuck on here.

Interestingly enough, they did some holds that Mariachi/Panther used two years later to less effect. I realise it's hard to compare anything to Solar, but there's a much better Panther performance than this.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Just go watch all of SummerSlam 2002, No Mercy 2002 and WrestleMania XIX. Awesome shows.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao So far in my 1996 watch, Savio Vega of all people has had a better in-ring year than Bret Hart! Man the roster in the beginning of the year was STACKED. Bret, Shawn, Owen, Vader, Diesel, Sid, 1-2-3, Ramon, Goldust, Piper, Foley, Austin, Yokozuna, and Bulldog. That's a strong cast of characters. Too bad that it didn't produce results. And how can I forget HAKUSHI?
> 
> Looks like nobody watched RAW I'm guessing. Sheamus/Barrett was very good and Shield/Cena vs. Wyatts was wonderful as always. All the Shield members killed it on the mic. Ok show, but the third hour was very empty. Good to see Swagger finally beat Santino too.
> 
> EDIT: Roddy Piper just called himself a lesbian :lol


I watched RAW.  Show started off great with the big announcement and then Sheamus vs. Barrett but they did just about nothing meaningful for the next hour and a half so I lost interest and turned it off. Once Cena joined Ambrose & Rollins, I didn't really care anymore.

Oh and did you hear about Orton? He didn't even have to qualify for the match! :lol (a joke on how much they brought him up)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im sick of seeing Sheamus win.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Hitman said:


> Im sick of seeing Sheamus win.


Yeah, it was nice for a few weeks there when he was jobbing to Barrett, Cesaro, Batista, and Wyatt... good times, good times. 

Of course, in recent weeks it's been back to normal with him beating everyone again. I'm not annoyed though that he beat Barrett this time around, because ultimately I think Cesaro (or Cena if he's added to the match) is taking the gold. Plus it'll give Barrett another PPV title defense, which is always good... or they go another ladder match with the briefcase, which Barrett gets into, and I think he may have a shot of winning with Cesaro already in the title ladder match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh and did you hear about Orton? He didn't even have to qualify for the match! :lol (a joke on how much they brought him up)


Didn't watch Raw because I couldn't care less at the moment, even more after I saw Orton tweet that he was gonna be unavailable... but what is this about?

The face of the company is above having to qualify. rton2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cole kept bringing up the fact the Triple H added Orton to the match "just because of who he is" so he didn't even have to be in a qualifying match. It was like every 30 minutes. Then they showed a picture that Orton tweeted of him on vacation.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Im sick of seeing Sheamus win.


Brave man. I await for the same group of people to bury you the same way they bury anyone that says anything bad about Sheamus.

:side:

MITB match doesn't look too appealing right now. We need a speed demon of some sort, but Ziggler, Rollins, and RVD are ineligible. Three spots left, and Cena and Wyatt should be two of them. Kane probably will be the last.

Anyone know of any good house show matches from 1996?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nice to see Sheamus is back to winning. All you motherfuckers with a horrible taste in talent will have no choice but to DEAL WITH IT!  We don't need to bury the bunch of you because not only are you inferior beings to us, The Fella Army, but booking is no longer catered to you and your bad taste. 



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Cole kept bringing up the fact the Triple H added Orton to the match "just because of who he is" so he didn't even have to be in a qualifying match. It was like every 30 minutes. Then they showed a picture that Orton tweeted of him on vacation.


Hopefully it's a foreshadowing of Orton's "being handed everything" gimmick as he goes on to regain what's rightfully his. 

But even in kayfabe, he earned the free qualification because he never got his title rematch.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol Funny thing, i even liked the Sheamus/Barrett match, and in a given match i don't mind Sheamus and im not knocking his ability, just the booking i guess. 

Id love Brock/Sheamus.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Sheamus/Barrett was one again awesome, probably one of the best they've done.

Rollins' character has gone to the toilet.

Ambrose's promo was the best thing on the show. Incredible delivery.


----------



## seabs (Jun 16, 2007)

*The Shield Complete Run (24 Discs)*
_


Spoiler: Matchlistings



Disc 1
The Shield Debut - Survivor Series 2012
The Shield Interview - Raw 26.11.2012
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 07.12.2012
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Ryback - TLC Match - TLC 2012
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 28.12.2012
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - NXT Championship - NXT 02.01.2013
Seth Rollins vs Big E Langston - No DQ Match - NXT Championship - NXT 09.01.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 18.01.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - Elimination Chamber 2013

Disc 2
The Shield vs Sheamus, Ryback & Chris Jericho - Raw 18.02.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 04.03.2013
The Shield vs Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder & The Great Khali - Raw 25.03.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Randy Orton & Big Show - Wrestlemania 29
The Shield vs Kofi Kingston, Brodus Clay & Tensai - Main Event 10.04.2013
The Shield vs Axl Keegan, Percy Watson & Scott Dawson - NXT 10.04.2013
Seth Rollins vs Corey Graves - Lumberjack Match - NXT 17.04.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 19.04.2013
The Shield vs Undertaker, Kane & Daniel Bryan - Raw 22.04.2013

Disc 3
Dean Ambrose vs Undertaker - Smackdown 26.04.2013 + Promo earlier
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 29.04.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - Smackdown 03.05.2013 + Promo earlier
The Shield vs The Usos & Kofi Kingston - Raw 06.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 10.05.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Elimination Match - Raw 13.05.2013

Disc 4
Seth Rollins vs Kane - Main Event 15.05.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Smackdown 17.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Extreme Rules 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - Tornado Tag Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Extreme Rules 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Kofi Kingston - Raw 20.05.2013 + Promo
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Sheamus & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 24.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kofi Kingston - US Championship - Raw 27.05.2013 and Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 27.05.2013

Disc 5
Seth Rollins vs Kane and Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 31.05.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Randy Orton - Smackdown 31.05.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Raw 03.06.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Smackdown 07.06.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - Raw 10.06.2013
Roman Reigns vs Randy Orton - Raw 10.06.2013 and Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 10.06.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan & Kane - Smackdown 14.06.2013

Disc 6 (House Show Bonus)
The Shield vs Ryback, Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 15.01.2013
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 01.02.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback - WWE House Show 15.03.2013
The Shield vs Randy Orton & New Age Outlaws - WWE House Show 24.04.2013
The Shield vs Sheamus, Daniel Bryan & Kane - WWE House Show 24.05.2013

Disc 7
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - US Championship - Payback 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - WWE Tag Team Championships - Payback 2013
Dean Ambrose vs Kane - US Championship - Raw 17.06.2013
Vince Likes The Shield - Raw 17.06.2013
The Shield vs Justin Gabriel & The Usos - Main Event 19.06.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Christian - Main Event 26.06.2013
The Shield vs Christian & The Usos - Smackdown 28.06.2013
The Shield vs Christian & The Usos - Raw 01.07.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 05.07.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Tons of Funk - Raw 08.07.2013
Seth Rollins vs Jey Uso - Smackdown 12.07.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Money In The Bank 2013

Disc 8
Damien Sandow vs Cody Rhodes vs Wade Barrett vs Fandango vs Antonio Cesaro vs Jack Swagger vs Dean Ambrose - Money In The Bank Ladder Match - Money In The Bank 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Smackdown 19.07.2013
The Shield vs Mark Henry & The Usos - Raw 29.07.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Randy Orton - Raw 05.08.2013
The Shield vs Mark Henry & The Usos - Main Event 07.08.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Adrian Neville - US Championship - NXT 07.08.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 12.08.2013
The Shield vs Adrian Neville, Corey Graves & Xavier Woods - NXT 14.08.2013
The Shield vs Rob Van Dam, Mark Henry and Big Show - Smackdown 16.08.2013

Disc 9
Dean Ambrose vs Rob Van Dam - US Championship - Summerslam 2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler - Raw 19.08.2013
The Shield vs Big Show - Raw 19.08.2013
The Shield vs Kofi Kingston & The Usos - Main Event 21.08.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 23.08.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan - Gauntlet Match - Raw 26.08.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler - Smackdown 30.08.2013
Seth Rollins vs Daniel Bryan - Smackdown 06.09.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 09.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler & The Usos - Smackdown 13.09.2013

Disc 10
Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler - US Championship - Night of Champions 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Prime Time Players - WWE Tag Team Championships - Night of Champions 2013
Roman Reigns vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 16.09.2013
The Shield Run The Gauntlet - Smackdown 20.09.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan & The Usos - Smackdown 20.09.2013
The Shield vs The Usos, Prime Time Players, Rob Van Dam, Justin Gabriel, Zack Ryder, Kofi Kingston, R-Truth, Dolph Ziggler and Daniel Bryan - Raw 23.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler, Rob Van Dam & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 27.09.2013
The Shield vs Dolph Ziggler & The Usos - Raw 30.09.2013

Disc 11
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Big Show - Smackdown 04.10.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Battleground 2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 07.10.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - No DQ Match - WWE Tag Team Championships - Raw 14.10.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler - US Championship - Main Event 16.10.2013
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Smackdown 18.10.2013
Dean Ambrose vs Daniel Bryan - Raw 21.10.2013

Disc 12
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Raw 21.10.2013
Seth Rollins vs Goldust - Main Event 23.10.2013
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Daniel Bryan, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big E Langston - Smackdown 25.10.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust vs The Usos - WWE Tag Team Championships - Hell In A Cell 2013
Dean Ambrose vs Big E Langston - US Championship - Hell In A Cell 2013
The Shield vs Big E Langston & The Usos - Raw 28.10.2013
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs The Usos - Smackdown 01.11.2013
The Shield & Randy Orton vs Big Show - Raw 04.11.2013
The Shield Backstage With Randy Orton - Raw 11.11.2013

Disc 13
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan & CM Punk - Raw 11.11.2013
The Shield Backstage With Randy Orton - Raw 18.11.2013
The Shield & The Wyatt Family vs Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Usos - Raw 18.11.2013
The Shield vs Rey Mysterio & The Usos - Smackdown 22.11.2013
The Shield, Antonio Cesaro & Jack Swagger vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust, The Usos & Rey Mysterio - Survivor Series 2013
The Shield vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Rey Mysterio - Raw 25.11.2013

Disc 14
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - WWE Tag Team Championships - Smackdown 29.11.2013
The Shield vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big Show - Raw 02.12.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 06.12.2013
CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose - Smackdown 06.12.2013
The Shield Present A Slammy - Raw 09.12.2013
CM Punk vs Dean Ambrose - Raw 09.12.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Usos - Smackdown 13.12.2013

Disc 15
The Shield vs CM Punk - TLC 2013
The Shield vs CM Punk & The Usos - Raw 16.12.2013
The Shield vs John Cena & CM Punk - Smackdown 20.12.2013
The Shield Promo - Raw 23.12.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, CM Punk & Big E Langston - Raw 23.12.2013
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 27.12.2013
The Shield vs John Cena, Mark Henry & Big E Langston - 3 Match Singles Series - Smackdown 27.12.2013

Disc 16
Seth Rollins vs CM Punk - Raw 30.12.2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs The Usos - Smackdown 03.01.2014
The Shield vs CM Punk & The Usos - Smackdown 03.01.2014
Piper's Pit with The Shield - Raw 06.01.2014
Roman Reigns vs CM Punk - Raw 06.01.2014
The Shield vs CM Punk & The New Age Outlaws - Smackdown 10.01.2014

Disc 17
The Shield vs CM Punk & The New Age Outlaws - Raw 13.01.2014
The Shield vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust & Big E Langston - Raw 20.01.2014
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 24.01.2014
The Shield & The New Age Outlaws vs Cody Rhodes, Goldust, Big E Langston & The Usos - Smackdown 24.01.2014
The Royal Rumble Match - Royal Rumble 2014

Disc 18
The Shield vs John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus - Raw 27.01.2014
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 31.01.2014
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Rey Mysterio - Smackdown 31.01.2014
The Shield vs Rey Mysterio, Big E Langston & Kofi Kingston - Raw 03.02.2014
The Shield Promo - Raw 03.02.2014
Roman Reigns & Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler & Kofi Kingston - Smackdown 07.02.2014
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 07.02.2014
The Shield Promo - Raw 10.02.2014
Dean Ambrose vs Mark Henry - US Championship - Raw 10.02.2014
The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Sheamus & Christian - Smackdown 14.02.2014

Disc 19
The Shield Promo - Raw 17.02.2014
Roman Reigns vs Mark Henry - Raw 17.02.2014
The Shield vs Los Matadores & Sin Cara - Main Event 19.02.2014
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Elimination Chamber 2014
The Shield & The Wyatt Family Promo - Raw 24.02.2014
Roman Reigns vs Bray Wyatt - Raw 24.02.2014
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 28.02.2014
The Shield Attack The Wyatt Family - Smackdown 28.02.2014
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Raw 03.03.2014
The Shield Summit - Smackdown 07.03.2014

Disc 20
The Shield Backstage with Kane - Raw 10.03.2014
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - Raw 10.03.2014
Dean Ambrose vs Mark Henry - US Championship - Main Event 11.03.2014
Seth Rollins vs Damien Sandow - Smackdown 14.03.2014
The Shield Backstage with Kane - Smackdown 14.03.2014
Kane vs Big Show - Smackdown 14.03.2014
The Shield Backstage with Kane - Raw 17.03.2014
The Shield Save Jerry Lawler - Raw 17.03.2014
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs The Real Americans vs 3MB vs Ryback & Curtis Axel - Smackdown 21.03.2014
The Shield Attack Ryback & Curtis Axel - Raw 24.03.2014
The Shield Backstage with Stephanie & Triple H - Raw 24.03.2014
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs The Real Americans - Raw 24.03.2014
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs 3MB & vs Ryback & Curtis Axel - Smackdown 28.03.2014
The Shield Promo - Raw 31.03.2014
Roman Reigns vs Kane - Raw 31.03.2014

Disc 21
The Shield vs Kane & The New Age Outlaws - Wrestlemania 30
Daniel Bryan vs Triple H - Raw 07.04.2014
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Main Event 08.04.2014
The Shield Attack Kane - Smackdown 11.04.2014
The Shield Attack Randy Orton & Batista - Raw 14.04.2014
The Shield vs Alberto Del Rio, Jack Swagger, Fandango, 3MB, Titus O’Neill, Ryback, Curtis Axel, Rusev & Bad News Barrett - Raw 14.04.2014
The Shield Promo - Raw 21.04.2014
The Shield Attack Jack Swagger, 3MB, Brad Maddox & Fandango - Smackdown 25.04.2014
The Shield vs Ryback, Bad News Barrett, Titus O’Neil, Alberto Del Rio, and Damien Sandow - Smackdown 25.04.2014

Disc 22
Roman Reigns vs Randy Orton - Raw 28.04.2014
Dean Ambrose vs Alberto Del Rio vs Ryback vs Curtis Axel - US Championship - Smackdown 02.05.2014
The Shield vs Evolution - Extreme Rules 2014
Battle Royal - US Championship - Raw 05.05.2014
The Shield vs The Wyatt Family - Raw 05.05.2014

Disc 23
Dean Ambrose vs Sheamus - US Championship - Smackdown 09.05.2014
Roman Reigns vs Mark Henry - Smackdown 09.05.2014
Seth Rollins vs Batista - Smackdown 09.05.2014
The Shield Promo - Raw 12.05.2014
The Shield Attack Evolution - Raw 12.05.2014
Roman Reigns vs Batista - Raw 12.05.2014
The Shield Promo - Raw 19.05.2014
Seth Rollins vs Batista - Raw 19.05.2014
The Shield & Evolution Contract Signing - Raw 26.05.2014
BONUS: The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & John Cena - WWE House Show 26.06.2013
BONUS: Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston - WWE House Show 16.11.2013

Disc 24
The Shield Promo - Smackdown 30.05.2014
The Shield vs Evolution - No Holds Barred Elimination Match - Payback 2014
Seth Rollins Turns On The Shield - Raw 02.06.2014
BONUS: The Shield vs John Cena, Randy Orton & Sheamus - WWE House Show 31.03.2013
BONUS: The Shield vs Daniel Bryan, Kane & Randy Orton - WWE House Show 02.06.2013
BONUS: Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs Cody Rhodes & Goldust - WWE House Show 16.11.2013
BONUS: Dean Ambrose vs Seth Rollins vs Leakee - FCW 05.02.2012


_
*PM me for more info about getting it if interested.*


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Just watched Dean's promo from last night... Oh lord bama4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Heard that Sheamus/Barrett took place and did watch it, very good if not as good as the April sprint but still one of their best together. Watched absolutely nothing else since it's all about E3 biatches. Anything else happened of interesting on Raw?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Hitman said:


> Im sick of seeing Sheamus win.


I'm sick of seeing any combination of Seamus, Barrett, RVD and Cesaro. I skip right through everything they do these days because they're just having the same matches every week. There's no investment whatsoever on my end. I just don't care what any of them do any more and that's a damn shame with regards to Cesaro because I was really enjoying him before Mania. Now he's an automatic channel changer for me and most of that is down to Heyman, painful as it may be to admit. I like Seamus but he's got absolutely nothing going for him right now.

The WWEWHC ladder match isn't looking too good right now either. Seamus and ADR are immediately not winning. Orton might depending on whether they want to give him a quick transitional reign but if he's just going to lose to Bryan again then what's the point? Cesaro is nowhere near ready to be champ. Had this been for the briefcase I definitely could have seen him winning but now that it's for the title he has no chance. If he does win it's going to be straight up horrible. I don't care how good he is in the ring. His character at the minute is boring and flat as fuck. I don't want that. I'll take a guess and say Cena/Rollins/Wyatt possibly get added as the other 3 names. Meh. I guess I can forgive them since it's sort of been sprung upon them like this but yeah, I'm not really looking forward to the prospect of this one all that much. 

With Bryan out of the picture though, Summerslam is looking all over the damn place right about now.

I finally caved and ordered Mania 29. It was reduced to 14.99 so I picked it up along with Mania 30. I haven't seen either show since they aired so that's my week sorted, if I can even be bothered to sit through 29. Chances aren't very high. 30 though? I'll be all over that tonight. Can't wait to finally catch the streak and main event for the first time since the live viewing in the SILVERDOME BROTHER. :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Barrett/Sheamus was great, as usual. Not as good as their one in April, but better than their SD one a week or two ago. I'd throw ***1/2 for it. Didn't think Rollins' promo was anything good, Reigns promo was surprisingly pretty good, and Ambrose killed it on the mic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm also sick of seeing the same matches week in week out. RVD/Cesaro again this week, and of course Sheamus/Barrett for the millionth time (although I did enjoy this one). Having same matches on PPV doesn't help either.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I haven't watched a single match involving any of the 4 of them, I'll also throw ADR in there too because I feel the same about him, for about 2 months now with a handful of exceptions. They all bore the shit out of me and I immediately forward their their matches and segments. I literally have no investment in anything they do because it's the same shit every week and and I'm not a mark for any of them so I can't tolerate it like I do with those I do actually care about. Thank God for the forward button. I've lost count of the number of times we've had Seamus/Cesaro/Barrett/ADR/RVD in one combination and then Shield/Wyatts/Uso's/Cena in another. I just don't even bother watching those matches any more.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm hoping Rollins makes it into the MITB match, but with Cena and Bray presumably filling the other two remaining spots, I'm not sure what Ambrose and Reigns would do.

And that Ambrose promo last night :mark:

AND DAT ROLLINS IN A SUIT :mark:


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

dvr'd RAW in favor of watching some 1999 WCW, going into RAW i was only looking forward to the fallout of Rollins' turn. Watched the qualifying matches cause i was interested in the winners and thought the matches would be better then the previous ones.

Same ol same ol from Barrett/Sheamus & Cesaro/RVD, damn did they screw up Cesaro.
No interest in Cesaro/Sheamus on SD even though i enjoyed their last two matches and why are we already getting a Rollins/Ziggler rematch ? WWE needs to let these matches breath.

The only thing that's keeping me watching towards MITB is Rollins vs. Ambrose/Reigns and the possibility of Wyatt becoming WHC.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of that really good RVD/Bigelow match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not 100% certain but I believe this was it, I know the match you're thinking of and I remember it being in 1998 for the TV title so this is my best guess (I'm at work so I can't watch through it to check)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ok12_ecw-04-04-1998-bam-bam-bigelow-vs-r_sport


Bam Bam also had a damn good match with Taz, let me know if you want a link


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not 100% certain but I believe this was it, I know the match you're thinking of and I remember it being in 1998 for the TV title so this is my best guess (I'm at work so I can't watch through it to check)
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ok12_ecw-04-04-1998-bam-bam-bigelow-vs-r_sport
> 
> ...


Yeah that is the one mate, thanks. I do know they had a few matches but that seems their best one. Also been meaning to watch some of the Bam Bam/Taz feud, have their rivalry on a comp too.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Sheamus/Barrett was AWESOME. Headbutt ftw.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, that headbutt was pretty sick. The match itself was very good, very nasty and Regal/Finlay'ish as I expected. However I did think that their April match was better.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> I'm hoping Rollins makes it into the MITB match, but with Cena and Bray presumably filling the other two remaining spots, I'm not sure what Ambrose and Reigns would do.
> 
> And that Ambrose promo last night :mark:
> 
> AND DAT ROLLINS IN A SUIT :mark:


How many spots are left? Three? I'm thinking Reigns in MitB and Rollins v Ambrose one on one. Or they could put all three of them in the ladder match and do Cena/Wyatt IV but I'll cry if I have to watch Cena ruin Bray some more.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Eh, Regal/Finlay? Talking about false advertising right there. :arn2 The match was okay, I guess, but I wouldn't call it good. It was kind of emotionless and... dry, idk. The first Barrett match I've seen in cca 3 years, I don't miss that boring drone at all. 

**3/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I said it was very similar to that style, not that it was the same. :shaq2


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Saint Dick said:


> How many spots are left? Three? I'm thinking Reigns in MitB and Rollins v Ambrose one on one. Or they could put all three of them in the ladder match and do Cena/Wyatt IV but I'll cry if I have to watch Cena ruin Bray some more.


Yeah, I think three. There were three empty spots in the graphic for the match, so I'm just assuming 

Rollins, Reigns, and Ambrose in the ladder match would be great, but Cena/Wyatt IV would be death. And then there'd probably be a fifth RUBBER MATCH :cena4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Anyone got a recommendation for me? I'm struggling to find something to watch. And please, no Barrett. I like his character but can't stand how he "wrestles".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone got a recommendation for me? I'm struggling to find something to watch. And please, no Barrett.


Well, did you watch Liger/Generico i posted?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah, Liger vs Generico. Do it. No questions why. 

FUCK.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

I was thinking about picking up the ECW Unreleased Vol. 1 DVD. Does it include the entrances or do they cut straight to the matches starting? Thanks in advance.

- Vic


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Sheamus/Barrett from last night ***1/2. 

I don't think I've seen the April one but this is definitely their best so far. If only it could have gone about 5 more minutes. Still, great TV match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Are people speaking of their matches only from 2014? b/c I find it hard to top their matches from Main Event in years past. Which are absolutely something positive.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone got a recommendation for me? I'm struggling to find something to watch. And please, no Barrett. I like his character but can't stand how he "wrestles".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Glad I decided to watch some of RAW just b/c there was a Chikara sign in the crowd during the opening promo. I'm so fulfilled. Kobald needs his vengeance.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching Main Event for Rollins vs. Ziggler, but I'm guessing I'll have to see some crap before that.

Like Rusev vs. Kofi fpalm


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Well, did you watch Liger/Generico i posted?



Haha I watched that literally within minutes after you posted it. I've always been a big Liger fan (really, who doesn't love some Liger?) and the mix with Generico is just a dream come true.




Chismo said:


>


I'll check this out right meow, thank you sir. I trust your judgement, even if you think Hogan/Andre blah blah blah


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That's one of the best matches of all time.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> That's one of the best matches of all time.


Just finished it.

I haven't really seen a ton of true Lucha matches, mostly just what went down in WCW and a few AAA and EMLL matches here and there. If there are more like this, I could definitely see myself getting into it.

This was a GREAT match. I know absolutely nothing about either guy in the match, never even heard their names before, but they absolutely tore it up, Damiencito especialmente. That tapa tilla sequence for the second fall is one of the cooler things I've ever seen done. Never seen someone get his opponent into the surfboard that way, let alone roll through and do it twice. One gripe I've had in the few Lucha matches I have seen has been guys not actually WORKING holds, and instead using them for rest. That wasn't the case here at all, all the holds were cinched in and the opponent was doing the proper selling. Only bad part of the match I can think of is when the Blue dude cheesed out on his big splash. Damiencito moved out of the way and he cheesed out big time by letting his feet hit the ground first before flopping onto his face, looked kinda silly. Other than that, not a single damn thing was wrong with it. Oh, and Damiencito celebrating after the third fall by flipping over the ropes and landing flat on his ass was :lmao

Thanks Chismo, that was awesome (Y)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Those guys are minis. You know how WWF had Mini Goldust, Mini Vader, etc? They're like that - midget-ish wrestlers (these guys are around 5'3" I think, so not actually always midgets) who are based off of other wrestlers. Damiancito el Guerrero is based off of Damian el Guerrero and Cicloncito Ramirez is based off of Ciclon Ramirez. So yeah, they basically just take the wrestler name and add cito/ito/otherito to it. Sometimes they have mini matches where the mini who wins get promoted to a ''regular'' wrestler. AKA Damiancito himself becoming Virus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Half expected that scenario to allow you to bring up Mascarita Sagrada.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought about it, if only to mention how he's amazing and the wrestler he's based on isn't really any good.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Anyone got a recommendation for me? I'm struggling to find something to watch. And please, no Barrett. I like his character but can't stand how he "wrestles".


http://touch.dailymotion.com/#/vide...new-japan-10-16-94-jr-tag-league-finals_sport 

:mark:






:usangle


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Those guys are minis. You know how WWF had Mini Goldust, Mini Vader, etc? They're like that - midget-ish wrestlers (these guys are around 5'3" I think, so not actually always midgets) who are based off of other wrestlers. Damiancito el Guerrero is based off of Damian el Guerrero and Cicloncito Ramirez is based off of Ciclon Ramirez. So yeah, they basically just take the wrestler name and add cito/ito/otherito to it. Sometimes they have mini matches where the mini who wins get promoted to a ''regular'' wrestler. AKA Damiancito himself becoming Virus.


Those guys were minis??? Really? I thought minis were guys size of Torito/Mascarita Dorada, those guys looked like they were about the same size as Rey. Shows how much I know. Then again, Rey says in his book that when he started wrestling all the promoters wanted to book him as a mini, so that makes sense I suppose.

Honestly I think they are taller than Rey, atleast when they hit he ropes they still use the top rope, Rey has to use to second on his Irish whips :lol

I really dug that match though, and now I have a guy to look for matches from (Virus).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Those guys were minis??? Really? I thought minis were guys size of Torito/Mascarita Dorada, those guys looked like they were about the same size as Rey. Shows how much I know. Then again, Rey says in his book that when he started wrestling all the promoters wanted to book him as a mini, so that makes sense I suppose.
> 
> Honestly I think they are taller than Rey, atleast when they hit he ropes they still use the top rope, Rey has to use to second on his Irish whips :lol
> 
> I really dug that match though, and now I have a guy to look for matches from (Virus).


As if that wasn't enough, Virus/Damiancito has a THIRD successful moniker: Piratita Morgan. Our good friend Mascarita Dorada is pretty good himself, but not as good as SAGRADA (who truly is superior to his bigger counterpart).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Virus is amazing, and the Top 10 wrestler world wide. He's one of those guys, you see one match, you feel the urge to watch everything you can find. This one is gonna blow everyone's mind, one of the very best matches in 2013:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anybody catch Ziggler/Rollins?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Pretty sure a good few did, though good luck trying to sift back through all these posts to find people's thoughts on Smackdown. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I really dug that match though, and now I have a guy to look for matches from (Virus).


Virus is probably an inch or two smaller than Rey. But enough about that, WATCH:

Virus/Guerrero Maya (2011-06-11)
Virus/Guerrero Maya (2013-10-12)
Blue Panther/Virus (2013-05-18)
Virus/Titan (1/28/14)

I'd be very interested in seeing how you take to the Panther/Virus exhibition, especially considering your previous post on finding lucha matwork to be a resthold criterion more than a struggle. Match is almost a wet-dream for Lucha fans.


As for Torito, I still love pimping his trios effort from 2010. Most certainly helps when it has someone that may or may not be one of the best crowd workers going. Demus > wrestling.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

*Random Rambles 1:*
Random Rambles is where I pick ten matches and rate the matches. My first match RVD vs. Kurt Angle on ECW 2006
*Rob Van Dam vs. Kurt Angle ECW 2006: ****1/2*
_This match is amazing we need to talk about, great psychlogy, great moves, Angle actually uses his wrestling background, RVD plays a great FIP. GO WATCH THIS MATCH NOW._
CAL SCALE: 7 a goddamm 7 yeah same as the whole of the Lawler vs. Funk 2003 Tour
My next match features my favourite Japenese wrestler Jushin Liger and Adam Cole never have watched Adam Cole and he's the ROH World Champion?
*Adam Cole vs. Jushin Liger War of The Worlds 2014: ***1/2*
_Screw you all Liger is awesome from his entrance music, his gimmick and the amazing costume. So the match is quite good Cole was a dick and Liger was a legend. Liger worked pretty good not amazing but good some cool spots. The ending was pretty rushed for some reason so yeah. Good Match._
CAL SCALE: 3
My next match is the last War Games and it sucks hard
*Wargames 2000 Russo's Revenge: NO*
_This sucks really really sucks. WHY IS RUSSO IN WCW HE SUCKS I WISH HE NEVER ENTERED WCW FUCK YOU RUSSO! The ending sucks to with a 'swerve' and Bret Hart helping Nash win over Goldberg. Poor Hart. DON'T WATCH THIS CRAP WATCH GOOD WRESTLING NOT THIS BULLSHIT!_
CAL SCALE: -1
I hope the next match is good it involves Bully Ray and a paper champion
*Chris Sabin vs. Bully Ray Impact 7/18/2013: DUD*
_Boring, Stupid and Bad Ending. Dont watch._
CAL SCALE: 0
My next match is a creepy match it's the last match of Chris Benoit
*Chris Benoit vs. Elijah Burke ECW: **3/4*
_A average match. Benoit was good and I'm never going to watch this match again I think_
CAL SCALE: 1
Next match was on WWE 24/7 and it's a match with Ric Flair's first feud in WWF
*Ric Flair vs. Roddy Piper MSG 1991: ****
_Fun little match mostly a brawl but with some headlocks. Only thing that hate is that Piper is supposed to be really angry at Flair but most of the time does not even fight that angry HE NO SELLS THE FEUD_
CAL SCALE: 2
My next match features a former tag team fighting each other 
*DH Smith vs. Tyson Kidd Superstars 2010: ****
_Fun match really should of got a match on PPV but fast paced well-worked match needed more time go watch._
CAL SCALE: 2
MOTY 2013
*Sami Zayn vs. Antonio Cesaro NXT 2/3 Falls: ****3/4*
_This match is awesome from the moves to the spots to the falls to the wrestlers to psychology this match is amazing wish it got more time but other then that MOTY 2013_
CAL SCALE: 8
IT'S TIME, IT'S VADER TIME!
*Vader vs. Kiyoshi Tamura UWFi 1994: ****
_Fun brawl stiff kicks and punches and slams. Good David vs. Goliath match._
CAL SCALE: 2
From Raw this week
*Wade Barrett vs. Sheamus 6/11/14 RAW: ***1/4*
_A awesome hard-hitting brawl and a awesome headbutt. Better then the Cesaro v Sheamus series_
CAL SCALE: 2
Damm this is fun.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Rob Van Dam vs. Kurt Angle

Now that seems right up my alley.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Rah said:


> Rob Van Dam vs. Kurt Angle
> 
> Now that seems right up my alley.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1hRrmFeTU

YOUR WELCOME


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can imagine that's a match I'd watch and think was the dirt worst lol. Angle Vs RVD, ESPECIALLY in 2006 sounds awful on paper to me . Maybe if I ever get back to my 06 TV project I'll give it a go. I finished SD years ago, and I'm almost up to the point where ECW comes back with my Raw run through and I was planning on watching them side by side when I got to that point. Oh well. Best not. Already pissing certain people off by watching 04 PPV's instead of MEMPHIS AND MID-SOUTH. Even getting abuse on Twitter over it :lmao.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Those guys were minis??? Really? I thought minis were guys size of Torito/Mascarita Dorada, those guys looked like they were about the same size as Rey. Shows how much I know. Then again, Rey says in his book that when he started wrestling all the promoters wanted to book him as a mini, so that makes sense I suppose.
> 
> Honestly I think they are taller than Rey, atleast when they hit he ropes they still use the top rope, Rey has to use to second on his Irish whips :lol
> 
> I really dug that match though, and now I have a guy to look for matches from (Virus).


Virus definitely isn't taller than Rey, but it's probably not by a lot. Wikipedia says he's 5'5" and Cicloncito is 5'6" 1/2. Luchadores are almost never that tall, which is why somebody like la Parka at 6'1" can look pretty big working against the rest of the roster who are like 5'8". The CMLL rings are probably much smaller than WWE's and their ropes would be lower.

''Mini'' isn't really just about the size of the wrestler, I guess. It's more like mini means ''mini version of this wrestler''. I don't think a mini can have his own original gimmick.

How long was Virus Piratita Morgan for? < A year? He was given the gimmick to replace the original Piratita (who went to AAA) and then Pirata left for AAA as well so they gave Virus the Damiancito gimmick. He isn't the guy wrestling as Piratita Morgan from 96 or 97 or the 2000s. Lucha gimmicks are confusing.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> I can imagine that's a match I'd watch and think was the dirt worst lol. Angle Vs RVD, ESPECIALLY in 2006 sounds awful


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao that's awesome. Better than every Angle match ever 8*D.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> :lmao that's awesome. Better than every Angle match ever 8*D.





Rah said:


>





#ROOT said:


> I can imagine that's a match I'd watch and think was the dirt worst lol. Angle Vs RVD, ESPECIALLY in 2006 sounds awful on paper to me . Maybe if I ever get back to my 06 TV project I'll give it a go. I finished SD years ago, and I'm almost up to the point where ECW comes back with my Raw run through and I was planning on watching them side by side when I got to that point. Oh well. Best not. Already pissing certain people off by watching 04 PPV's instead of MEMPHIS AND MID-SOUTH. Even getting abuse on Twitter over it :lmao.


LOL at Root or Cal not loving an Angle vs. RVD. I think I'm the only one on here who likes Kurt Angle or Rob Van Dam. Also for me's it now ROOT SCALE. Well now I'm :ban for going against the all mighty CAL SCALE


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I really need to pull the head out of my ass and watch the Evolution/Shield matches. And two Wyatts/Shield matches from Raw. And Fella's pimped TV matches. Numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for my PC time today.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Small upload:

*Midnight Express vs The Steiner Brothers (WCW 10.13.1990)*

x1z542d


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> :lmao that's awesome. Better than every Angle match ever 8*D.


Does that include Austin/Angle? 8*D

Let's give the dude credit here: he's been in some impressive matches. All vs Austin, most vs Taker, all vs Lesnar, a few vs Michaels, one vs Eddie, one vs Jannetty, one vs Mysterio and one vs Benoit - all pretty damn awesome. Sure, all of them are superior than him, but you get the idea. The dude, when he's "clicking", really is one of the best in the world. Two bad he clicks for the wrong side most of the time :lol

Later today: PART 3 OF MY MOTN RANKS.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually remember Angle being somewhat good in 2006. Now I highly doubt that will hold up, but I recall him FINALLY realizing that he's a gold medalist, thus using his amateur wrestling as an advantage rather than a disadvantage. But he will probably counter that by attempting 10 Angleslams in five minutes. As shitty as the Michaels match at Vengeance was, their ironman match may have topped it in garbageness.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Angle vs. Michaels is probably the worst feud ever between two guys who are apparently all time GREATS, at least in terms of match quality. Eery single second in every single one of their matches is horrid. Kurt singing HBK's theme song makes up for it though. 

Ofc. this is all common knowledge, right


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their WM match is great dammit. WHY ON EARTH AM I OF ALL PEOPLE DEFENDING A FECKING ANGLE/HBK MATCH? 

No idea about their Vengeance match these days. I used to like it more than WM (aside from the finish :lmao), but I ain't seen it for years. I'll watch it with my 05 rambles. 2 more 04 PPV's to go and I can start on 05 lol.

Oh hey totally added some new content to my blog today . Perfect PPV 2002!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Most people say their Vengeance match sucks. I say it's better than WM's. It's basically a much less spotty and more senseful version of the WM match, only with a far worse finish too. :lol Imo they're both great though, and one pure example of how even accidental psychology makes up for something really good.

Their 30-minute Iron Man match is putrid, though. Couldn't stand that awful piece of shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


>


Had this on my watch list for a while. First time watching it, fucking loved it. Great matwork mixed with some high spots, excellent. Right up until Guerrero slips on the rope in his post match celebration. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HBK and Angle had an Iron man match? Ugh no way am I ever watching that shit 

Remember liking the Vengeance match and HATING the mania match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> HBK and Angle had an Iron man match? Ugh no way am I ever watching that shit
> 
> Remember liking the Vengeance match and HATING the mania match


Well in its defense, it was on RAW and only a 30 minute Ironman, so it can't be THAT long. I haven't seen any of their matches in years though so who knows.

Really interesting looking main event on Smackdown this week, plus a Payback rematch:



Spoiler: Smackdown



Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt in a MITB Qualifier and Cesaro vs. Sheamus


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

SmackDown looks good this week but it looked good on paper last week too and I still didn't watch a second of it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> SmackDown looks good this week but it looked good on paper last week too and I still didn't watch a second of it.


Same. :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Terry Funk vs. Atsushi Onita (No Rope Explosive Barbed Wire Time Bomb Death Match) (FMW 5/5/93)*






I don't usually watch these matches, but its the Funker.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ That was the first Japanese match I ever watched and I loved it, but that was a good few years ago, god knows what I'd think to it now. It's one of those where I have such fond memories of it I don't dare watch it incase it doesn't hold up to my extraordinarily high expectations


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I haven't seen that in years. Might be one of my first Funk matches, and definitely one of my first deathmatches. Still vividly remember the ending, though, with Onita trying to save the man he just put through hell, and then sacrificing his own body for Funk to "survive". Kinda wacky, from how that sounds, but it's a swell match.


EDIT: What Flux said


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Rollins/Ziggler from Main Event was good. Nothing special that you have to go out of your way to see but it was an easy watch. Rollins is better working as a face but he's still good as a heel and with time I can see him growing into the role. I liked Dolph a lot in this. Thought there was a less style, more substance type of feel to what he brought to the match compared to his usual stuff (which I don't have a problem with btw, but it was cool to see him throwing some nasty elbows and shit like that).


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Rollins/Ziggler from Main Event was good. Nothing special that you have to go out of your way to see but it was an easy watch. Rollins is better working as a face but he's still good as a heel and with time I can see him growing into the role. I liked Dolph a lot in this. Thought there was a less style, more substance type of feel to what he brought to the match compared to his usual stuff (which I don't have a problem with btw, but it was cool to see him throwing some nasty elbows and shit like that).


(Y) Pretty much my thoughts exactly


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I seriously love HBK/Angle from WM, the story is just excellent, I don't even mind HBK having cyborg ankles.



The Hitman said:


> Had this on my watch list for a while. First time watching it, fucking loved it. Great matwork mixed with some high spots, excellent. Right up until Guerrero slips on the rope in his post match celebration.


Now watch the Guerrero Maya Jr. match from 2013.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> I seriously love HBK/Angle from WM, the story is just excellent, I don't even mind HBK having cyborg ankles.
> 
> 
> 
> Now watch the Guerrero Maya Jr. match from 2013.


Guerrero Maya Jr vs Virus - CMLL 06.10.2013 is on my 'to watch' list.  Just watched *Atsushi Onita & Tarzan Goto vs. Masa Kurisu & Dragon Master (Texas Death Match) (FMW 4/1/90)*

Crazy ass brawl with lots of chairs.

Was is that match in your sig?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Was is that match in your sig?


Errr, which one? :kobe


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Errr, which one? :kobe


Fucking changing sigs lol. It was Brody and.............think it was Hansen


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Hitman said:


> Fucking changing sigs lol. It was Brody and.............think it was Hansen


~Bruiser Brody vs. Terry Funk (AJPW 12/7/1982)
~Bruiser Brody vs. Dory Funk Jr. (AJPW 04/21/1982)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> ~Bruiser Brody vs. Terry Funk (AJPW 12/7/1982)
> ~Bruiser Brody vs. Dory Funk Jr. (AJPW 04/21/1982)


Ah thanks. Need to see more of AJPW 80's.  NJPW 80's too for that matter.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

HBK vs Angle is just a much better version of HBK vs Hunter, that forced epicnezzzzz.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> HBK vs Angle is just a much better version of HBK vs Hunter, that forced epicnezzzzz.




HBK/HHH SS 02 > any HBK/Angle match.


I still have it at ****1/2


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> HBK/HHH SS 02 > any HBK/Angle match.
> 
> 
> I still have it at ****1/2


Would be correct If I was referring to the Summerslam match. HBK vs Angle is a much better version of HBK vs Hunter from the Rumble, doesn't say much considering the former was complete shit and HBK vs Angle would be a good ***1/4 off that estimate.

Edit: HBK vs Hunter Raw 03 >>> All their other blockbuster-wannabe matches. When I'm watching a match between the two, it's like watching Die Hard 2.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok guys, I'm still doing E3 stuff until tomorrow, and I am going to need something to unwind with. Someone list me as many Terry Funk matches as possible. I want to start a Funk project and aim to have it done within a year. This will of course be an entire career retrospect, so nothing is off limits. Thanks in advance!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There is no connection between HBK/Angle and HBK/HHH matches other than HBK being in there with a less than stellar worker and just about all of the matches sucking.

Is something wrong with me? I just watched Brody/Hansen vs. The Funks from 12/8/84 after not seeing it since 2007. Great match, but I wouldn't go more than that. I've seen better from all four guys, and it may not even make my top 100 tag matches of all-time. Certainly not a five star match.

Tajiri had a match in the WWE in early 1996.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Is something wrong with me? I just watched Brody/Hansen vs. The Funks from 12/8/84 after not seeing it since 2007. Great match, but I wouldn't go more than that. I've seen better from all four guys, and it may not even make my top 100 tag matches of all-time. Certainly not a five star match.


No, that's a tag match that's probably very good (IDRR), but overrated since it happened, probably because Meltzer gave it five stars. It's definitely worth a watch but IDK if I'd give it more than ***1/2 or something. All Japan had many tag matches in the 80s >.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Tanner1495 said:


> Ok guys, I'm still doing E3 stuff until tomorrow, and I am going to need something to unwind with. Someone list me as many Terry Funk matches as possible. I want to start a Funk project and aim to have it done within a year. This will of course be an entire career retrospect, so nothing is off limits. Thanks in advance!


Funk or Hansen, either will do. The decision is not set in stone yet.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

So, there are rumors that Bryan might face Bork in the future, and while I'm trying to get HYPED AS FUCK for the possibility of the match, there are of course people complaining that it ISN'T BELIEVABLE. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Rob Van Dam vs. Kurt Angle
> 
> Now that seems right up my alley.


:lmao

comment left me in stitches.



The Hitman said:


> Small upload:
> 
> *Midnight Express vs The Steiner Brothers (WCW 10.13.1990)*
> 
> x1z542d


<3



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> HBK and Angle had an Iron man match? Ugh no way am I ever watching that shit
> 
> Remember liking the Vengeance match and HATING the mania match


Hilarious part is, the Iron Man is the most tolerable of all their ultimate dog shit. :hayden3

---------

Virus vs Maya Jr. match last year is awful. Was a DUD. Not my kind of Lucha. The matwork in the start, holy fuck it was bad. I hate crapping on a Virus match as I've went through a good bit of his work for a week after I watched that and he's awesome, but no, just no at that match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Hilarious part is, the Iron Man is the most tolerable of all their ultimate dog shit. :hayden3


Are you sure about that? I think I counted ten finishers in the first ten minutes, with only one of them actually getting a victory. That match just kept going on and on and on. I would tell you to rewatch the match, but I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. And you are my worst enemy.

This exists. I didn't even know RVD had something significant in Japan besides the great Kroffat match. He also tagged with Hansen against Kawada and Kobashi in 93. And a match with one of the most underrated greats of Japan in Kikuchi. Also found a really nice match between Eddie Guerrero and Sabu in Japan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Angle iron man matches tend to be more tolerable then non-iron mans...iron men. He may hit a bunch of finishers too early but at least the match is timed and early pinfalls can make a great iron man match plot. I don't like the Angle/Michaels iron man, but I did think it was the best of the three matches. Not counting that one in 2006 because I've forgotten whether I've watched it or not. Well I'm pretty sure I have but IDR my opinion. Pretty sure if I liked it I would have remembered.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

We're basically dissecting what happens to be the lesser of three evils here. Nothing more. It's all bad, at the end of the day.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah talking about the one with Davari in it? I'd say it was pretty decent, Angle just beats the shit out of the Shawn throughout the match and an angry Kurt is a tolerable Kurt, am i rite? 

:kurt-angle-grinding-teeth-smiley-here

he's not suppose to be smiling.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You're missing the mouthguard. But since we still have life left in the minis conversation, somebody please watch this match:


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

PGSucks said:


> So, there are rumors that Bryan might face Bork in the future, and while I'm trying to get HYPED AS FUCK for the possibility of the match, there are of course people complaining that it ISN'T BELIEVABLE. :side:


It'll be similar to Danielson's classic series against Morishima, with Lesnar being far more menacing and naturally athletic.

The match I want just a tad bit more once one turns face is Rollins vs. Lesnar. I firmly believe that could be a strong contender for match of the decade.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh, I have little doubt it'd be fantastic, but I'm tired of the general WWE section posters complaining about the size difference. 

Rollins vs. Lesnar would be pretty sweet, but unless Bork extends his contract for a while, I don't see either working as a face.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

No surprise that Sheamus/Barrett from Raw was good. It wasn't THAT good or anything but yeah, they definitely have solid chemistry. That fucking headbutt from Barrett. :mark: The out of nowhere Brogue finish was nice too. Barrett's like my favorite guy to watch right now other than The Shield and Wyatts. Everybody else (apart from Hunter and Steph) can fuck off and that includes Cesaro, Sheamus, Ziggler and the other good workers this company has forced me to not give a fuck about. Seriously, give them something to fucking do. It's like the writers don't understand the concept of putting together a meaningful feud unless it involves Daniel Bryan, Triple H or John Cena.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

So I know he's not that liked in this thread but in the mood for some GAME-uhh matches. Good HHH recommendations please? Preferably ones where he looks good as well, not just his opponent 

Outside of his Foley matches of course, and no multiman matches preferably. Triple threats and tags are okay. I've seen most of his famous matches, but that was a while back.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

If someone recommends Trips/Bryan I'm gonna have a bitch-fit. 

Anyways, steering clear from the obvious ones-
VS Hardy CS 08
VS Cactus RAW 1997
VS Cena RAW 2009
VS Flair RAW 2003/TT 2005/LMS 
VS Umaga CS 07


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

How's HHH vs Orton LMS from No Mercy 07? I liked it when I saw it all those years ago, never rewatched it though. Not sure how it holds up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's pretty damn amazing. HHH's best babyface performance BY FAR, the best HHH/Orton match BY FAR, and the display of a very, very vicious heel Orton.

Oh, and those who think the Iron Man match is the best match of the HBK/Angle stuff, you're out of your fucking mind. That match was putrid garbage imho. But to each his own guess.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> So I know he's not that liked in this thread but in the mood for some GAME-uhh matches. Good HHH recommendations please? Preferably ones where he looks good as well, not just his opponent
> 
> Outside of his Foley matches of course, and no multiman matches preferably. Triple threats and tags are okay. I've seen most of his famous matches, but that was a while back.


Fully Loaded 2000 v Jericho is one of his best matches and performances. Really good heel workover from him in that one. I've pimped SummerSlam '08 against Khali in here before. Surprisingly good match and one of H's better babyface showings. LMS at No Mercy '07, the two Flair matches in '05 and HiaC v Batista are all great. Can't go wrong with pretty much any of his matches with Jeff Hardy (No Mercy and Cyber Sunday '08 being the standouts). Haven't seen the Night of Champions Cena match in a while but I imagine that should hold up. Oh and NYR '06 vs Big Show. That rules.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Go with No Mercy 2008 and Power Trip vs. Ben 'N Jerry.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> So I know he's not that liked in this thread but in the mood for some GAME-uhh matches. Good HHH recommendations please? Preferably ones where he looks good as well, not just his opponent
> 
> Outside of his Foley matches of course, and no multiman matches preferably. Triple threats and tags are okay. I've seen most of his famous matches, but that was a while back.


HHH v. The Big Show 2/13/06
HHH v. Shawn Michaels 3/27/06
HHH v. Lance Storm 5/23/02
HHH v. Chris Benoit 3/14/05


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH v. The Big Show 2/13/06
> *HHH v. Shawn Michaels 3/27/06*
> HHH v. Lance Storm 5/23/02
> HHH v. Chris Benoit 3/14/05


Is that on Raw? Completely blanking on that one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yep. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41uhr_raw-27-03-2006-triple-h-vs-shawn-mi_sport


----------



## WrestlingforEverII (Jan 31, 2011)

WWE going in with the roster cuts today..

RIP Drew Mcintyre btw. Knew he was a fave in here.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why the hell did they cut Drew McIntyre and Jinder Mahal when 3MB was going strong? And how is JTG STILL employed?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I don't so much mind Bourne being released because I'm confident in him picking himself up and returning to the indies, but whether Drew will do the same is what remains to be seen. I hope he does. Hell a stint in NJPW could be great for him, seemed to have worked for Smith, Archer and Gallows and I'd certainly place Drew amongst them guys in terms of pecking order in the WWE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The ONLY good thing I can see with McIntyre released is that he can go somewhere else and like, ACTUALLY SHOW HOW TALENTED HE IS. Guy is a better worker than probably 90% of the entire WWE and TNA rosters. Put him in a position where he can not be limited and he'll rock the fucking planet.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yay, let's give spotlight to a team and then cut the one guy who somehow made the Torito/Swaggle less shitty.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

McIntyre got fired? And Bourne too? What the fuck, 'E. Especially in the case of McIntyre - for someone who YOU, WWE, you nicknamed "the Chosen One" in 2010, he seemed to have been chosen for absolutely nothing. Shamefully at that.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

McIntyre could be world champion in TNA or ROH. Really sad about him.

Poor Evan Bourne. Wonder how he'll be after so long away from the ring.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

What are everyone's thoughts/ratings on Mankind/Rock ladder match from February 15th '99?

I have it at four stars. There are some cool spots & I didn't mind the ending with Big Show chokeslamming Mankind off the ladder; it was a sick chokeslam. I don't like when matches go out into the crowd, so I didn't enjoy that part. Overall though it was a very good match & good usage of the chairs.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Don't care at all about McIntyre being released. They weren't going to do anything worthwhile with him so it doesn't matter.



Yeah1993 said:


> Yep. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x41...shawn-mi_sport


Good stuff. Too bad they didn't realize shorter, high pace matches were always the way to go.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Don't care at all about McIntyre being released. They weren't going to do anything worthwhile with him so it doesn't matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Good stuff. Too bad they didn't realize shorter, high pace matches were always the way to go.


Did they have a good one in 96 or 97? (Not the WWF version of the fingerpoke of doom niether lol).


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

*Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin*

_Sun City Super Bowl - September 14, 1996_
Sun City, South Africa

I found this to very similar to the 2003 ROH match between Samoa Joe and CM Punk - this was good, but couldn't compare whatsoever to what would come later. Bret was obviously rusty and the two were trying to get a feel for each other's styles. The storytelling and effort were definitely there, the two just needed another chance to put forth a proper final draft. Ultimately the story of the match was that Austin just wasn't in Bret's league as a technical wrestler. ***1/2

_Survivor Series 1996 - November 18, 1996_
New York, NY

This definitely holds up over time, and the two were familiar enough with each other to finally untap their chemistry. Just beautiful technical wrestling, with Austin doing everything he could to ruin the breathing and stamina of Bret, well-known for his endurance. This was probably the best straight wrestling match of Austin's career, but just like the previous match they had, Austin just didn't have the experience of Bret to win a match on such a huge stage like MSG. ****3/4

_Final Four - February 16, 1997_
Bret vs. Austin vs. Vader vs. Undertaker
Chattanooga, TN

Another excellent match with some new wrinkles due to Vader and Taker's participation, as well as the WWF Title being on the line, with the over-the-top elimination rule thrown based on what happened the month prior. Just four guys who beat the shit out of each other for the top prize in the company, and it became a bit glaring how much Austin's trolling was getting to Bret despite the finish. ****1/4

_WrestleMania 13 - March 23, 1997_
Submission Match
Chicago, IL

My pick for the best match to take place on North American soil during the 1990s. Reflecting on the past decade, I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend this for those who enjoyed Kevin Steen's feuds with Super Dragon and El Generico, as well as the ROH vs. CZW feud. This had the deeper story over the MSG match, and to me that's what made this the best out of this storyline. The match that MADE Austin, and these brought the fucking hate in this epic brawl. Austin's trolling of Bret finally hit its breaking point, and the rest is history. *****

_Revenge of the 'Taker - April 20, 1997_
Rochester, NY

Another great match for these two, although not on par with their NYC and Chicago matches, as the Rochester crowd will never be as epic as those markets. Austin was clearly pissed off coming into this one, and showed that he had learned from the submission match the month before, but Bret was too much of a veteran to allow himself to be proven inferior to Austin, stooping so low as to have the Hart Foundation ruin the match so he wouldn't submit. Great sports-entertainment finish to make fans wanna tune into Raw. ****

_Raw - April 21, 1997_
Binghamton, NY

The last singles match between these two that I'm aware of, and while not the end-all, be-all epic that this feud deserved, this was a perfect TV match. Good hate-filled action with the standard psychology and storytelling of both men. Again, Bret didn't submit to Austin, robbing Austin of ever getting the proper victory over him. The pre-match is great, the post-match is great, Austin's hijacking of Bret's ambulance is phenomenal. Just great television. ***1/2, probably ****1/2 as an entire segment


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

why are people mad about Bourne being cut? They stopped using him back in 2012. Over two years ago. Finally being gone is great if he decides to continue taking bookings. Get him anywhere else in the world to actually work.

Same w/Drew, but that's more worthy of a snicker b/c why release such a talented guy you still could have at least used in some minor capacity? Meh. Actually glad he's gone too just for the potential of doing something great again. Which I haven't been able to see since about...2012? Pretty sure he had some good stuff while on Superstars that year. I know he did throughout 2011.

Brodus Clay gave me good matches vs PAC on NXT before he left so at least they got something from him in the end. Camacho shows they had nothing to do w/him ever, so that's that. JTG's contract probably isn't up yet. That's why he's still around unless he gets axed later. About time cuts were made. Waiting till contracts are up is something I get, but damn does it sure seem to take forever when the worker gets cast off way before their time is up.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Last night's edition of the The Best of RAW on the Network was horrible. The episode where Cena first comes to RAW June 6, 2005 I think. Nothing good on it whatsoever. ECW "invaded" and there was way too much Eric Bischoff. Chris Benoit faced Snitsky in an Extreme Rules Match but it was ruined by the Dudleyz. Skip it.

No big deal for me with today's releases. McIntyre's career was in the shitter due to the gimmick, never saw anything in Mahal, Bourne hasn't wrestled in like 2 years, and we never saw Teddy Long. The only one I could say kinda sucks was Brodus Clay. Missed opportunities for him to be a big monster. Whatevs though.



RAINNMAKAHH said:


> So I know he's not that liked in this thread but in the mood for some GAME-uhh matches. Good HHH recommendations please? Preferably ones where he looks good as well, not just his opponent
> 
> Outside of his Foley matches of course, and no multiman matches preferably. Triple threats and tags are okay. I've seen most of his famous matches, but that was a while back.


Throwing out a couple more that I don't _think_ were recommended before:

Triple H vs. Randy Orton (Last Man Standing RAW 2009)
The DX vs. Legacy tags from Summerslam '09 & Breaking Point
The 2006 Royal Rumble Match (hell of a performance)
vs. CM Punk from NOC 2011 (still love this one)



Tanner1495 said:


> Ok guys, I'm still doing E3 stuff until tomorrow, and I am going to need something to unwind with. Someone list me as many Terry Funk matches as possible. I want to start a Funk project and aim to have it done within a year. This will of course be an entire career retrospect, so nothing is off limits. Thanks in advance!


If you're doing Hansen:

vs. Misawa (4/21/93)

Nothing from Funk is popping up for me right now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mahal was released? Good. One of those guys who I never understood got a job to begin w/. He wasn't even good at being a jobber.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Mahal was released? Good. One of those guys who I never understood got a job to begin w/. He wasn't even good at being a jobber.


Don't hinder Jinder.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just did. As did WWE.

Boosh.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Remember when people praised his matches with Rollins when in actuality they sucked? :hayden3


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Last night's edition of the The Best of RAW on the Network was horrible. The episode where Cena first comes to RAW June 6, 2005 I think. Nothing good on it whatsoever. ECW "invaded" and there was way too much Eric Bischoff. Chris Benoit faced Snitsky in an Extreme Rules Match but it was ruined by the Dudleyz. Skip it.
> 
> No big deal for me with today's releases. McIntyre's career was in the shitter due to the gimmick, never saw anything in Mahal, Bourne hasn't wrestled in like 2 years, and we never saw Teddy Long. The only one I could say kinda sucks was Brodus Clay. Missed opportunities for him to be a big monster. Whatevs though.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Hansen is someone I definitely want to do in the future, but Funk just has so much more I think. If I knew how much Hansen had ready and available, I'd probably list him first. I've seen very little of both.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Super Sonic said:


> Don't hinder Jinder.


Fuck that noise, don't screw Drew.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Same w/Drew, but that's more worthy of a snicker b/c why release such a talented guy you still could have at least used in some minor
> capacity? Meh. Actually glad he's gone too just for the potential of doing something great again. Which I haven't been able to see since about...2012? Pretty sure he had some good stuff while on Superstars that year. I know he did throughout 2011..


Other Section might just get awkward when TCW start running an extended Chris Masters/McIntyre programme and we're all salivating over it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Ok Funnyfaces......

Show me the ways of the Swagger.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Drew being released is probably the most disappointing, but if he can get an opportunity to do something worthwhile, then it'll be worth it. I'm most amused at the fact that about half of the people released were on TV this week. Brodus could have been a solid monster heel but, as WWE's habit, he got a comedy gimmick and couldn't be taken seriously. 

On a much happier note, I've been watching Kenta Kobashi matches, really my first venture into Japanese wrestling, and I'm not sure I could have picked a better place to start. First I watched Kobashi/KENTA from NOAH in 2004, which was fucking awesome. KENTA gets offense in and all that but Kobashi just ends up murdering him and it's a wild watch. The sound of those chops are unlike anything I've ever heard. I also watched two matches with Vader, one from 1999, where Vader wins the title, then one from early 2000 where Kobashi took the victory. The crowd's selling of Vader's beating, is almost as great as Kobashi's selling, which is incredible. Safe to say that Kobashi was/is like a god in Japan. So easy to get behind.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The thread I saw said JTG got released?

Pretty confident Evan and Drew will fine their place in the wrestling world


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

There's a Kobashi comp that recently got upped on PWTorrents that you guys should pick up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rah said:


> There's a Kobashi comp that recently got upped on PWTorrents that you guys should pick up.


Can't do torrents.  Is there a text list there? Trying to draw up a small list myself, which I'll post here when I can be arsed.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

This will be good in my oppinion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Did anyone buy or watch the Wrestling's Greatest Factions dvd? Some interesting looking matches on there, curious if it's worth a pick up in the future.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

> Leviathan vs. Brock Lesnar
> OVW - July 28, 2001
> 
> Reverend D-Von & Batista vs. Faarooq & Randy Orton
> ...


I didn't know that he ever wrestled against Lesnar back in OVW. Love that they're not including his matches with *the fucking Undertaker*. Unless a bunch of these are forgotten gems, it doesn't seem like his best matches are on there.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Plenty of TV matches, sounds better than a bunch of PPV matches already on DVD


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I like that their including his hoss-off vs Lesnar in OVW. That was surprisingly entertaining actually, I've seen it on YT before. It's basically Batista and Brock... Batista'ing and Brock'ing against each other. Just two behemoths non-stop colliding. And it was still better than Brock/Goldberg.

But yeah, the fact that they're not including none of the stuff vs TAKER is a fucking travesty. And the fact that they had at least one of the JBL matches and NO FUCKING TAKER MATCHES is an even bigger travesty (Batista/JBL had some of the worst chemistry I've ever seen). Jesus.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Other Section might just get awkward when TCW start running an extended Chris Masters/McIntyre programme and we're all salivating over it.


I'm prepared to make it the most awkward scene the Other Wrestling section has dared to ever see. And I'm pretty sure "Adam Cole is sexy" + "suck my dick" chant praise has been well supplied in that area.



Helmsley said:


> On a much happier note, I've been watching Kenta Kobashi matches, really my first venture into Japanese wrestling, and I'm not sure I could have picked a better place to start. First I watched Kobashi/KENTA from NOAH in 2004, which was fucking awesome. KENTA gets offense in and all that but Kobashi just ends up murdering him and it's a wild watch. The sound of those chops are unlike anything I've ever heard. I also watched two matches with Vader, one from 1999, where Vader wins the title, then one from early 2000 where Kobashi took the victory. The crowd's selling of Vader's beating, is almost as great as Kobashi's selling, which is incredible. Safe to say that Kobashi was/is like a god in Japan. So easy to get behind.


Streamers. The jacket. BURNING HAMMER. _(not yet by what matches you've watched, but still...SOON)_

I think the obvious notion of Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Furnas/Kroffat is next up for you. Zep posted it a page or two back, iirc.


----------



## DFUSCMAN (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm pretty sad that Mcintyre is gone, one of the better workers in the company and WWE could have done something with him.

If Mcintyre goes to NJPW I would be pretty ecstatic, he would do very well over there and give us tons of great matches as well.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Helmsley said:


> On a much happier note, I've been watching Kenta Kobashi matches, really my first venture into Japanese wrestling, and I'm not sure I could have picked a better place to start. First I watched Kobashi/KENTA from NOAH in 2004, which was fucking awesome. KENTA gets offense in and all that but Kobashi just ends up murdering him and it's a wild watch. The sound of those chops are unlike anything I've ever heard. I also watched two matches with Vader, one from 1999, where Vader wins the title, then one from early 2000 where Kobashi took the victory. The crowd's selling of Vader's beating, is almost as great as Kobashi's selling, which is incredible. Safe to say that Kobashi was/is like a god in Japan. So easy to get behind.







:bahgawd


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Official list of people released today:

JTG
Drew McIntyre
Jinder Mahal
Aksana
Curt Hawkins
Theodore Long
Camacho
Brodus Clay
Evan Bourne
Yoshi Tatsu
Marc Harris (referee)

I kinda liked Camacho and think he might've had a future...


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Batista and HBK have a bit of chemistry, aye?

Armageddon 03 (***)

Backlash 08 (***1/4)- Basically a crisper version of the above, ever notice how wrestlers recycle old spots from previous matches even if they're years apart. Hell, Lesnar/Taker recycled their finish from HIAC into the Wrestlemania match. 

Stretcher (***1/2)- Not really a threat to the GOAT stretcher (Show/Lesnar) but still very, very fun, mainly due to Shawn's outrageous bumping. I'm so glad there was no upset win here as it looks they were aiming for that with Batista's domination of the match and the way it ends, it's like realistically blunt which is a good thing.

Lumberjack RAW 10/3/08 (**)- Nothing here was overly good, it was much slower than the other matches and Batista was the one dishing out the damage in a precise manner, ground submissions replacing high impact moves wasn't wise as it's not really either wrestler's forte in a selling or delivering notion and I HATE SHAWN'S FACIAL EXPRESSION WHEN HE'S IN A HOLD, MIGHT AS WELL HAVE A BIG LABEL ON HIS HEAD SAYING "I'M ACTING". Overall, it was fine I guess.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I'd rather watch Wrestlemania 3 three times than watch that Batista blu ray. I will pass.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Glad to see that Titus survived the cuts. 37 isn't really old in wrestling terms but isn't that young either and they aren't doing much with him. I do feel that while Titus isn't an excelling worker, he isn't abysmal and can put on the odd good match, has charisma,that Vince high definition bodybuilder look and most importantly when given the mike/segment time shines. I do feel that with a little investment, he can be a cornerstone of what should be a flourishing mid card, but like most of the midcard, Titus goes neglected. 

I notice someone mention HBK/Batista?.If memory serves, there was a match where Batista choked Michaels and blood was gushing out of his mouth. What match was that if it was a match and not a segment? 



Spoiler: MITB



If I may share a hope of mine, I hope that the MITB ladder match doesn't dissolve into Cena vs Wyatt with bystanders. I don't think Cesaro/Orton if on his game would let that happen, but I'm not really liking the chemistry of this match type performed by these participants. Though, more often then not MITB by sheer excitement and hype by the performers churns out a fun bout.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Agreed on Titus. I like him. They just need to come up with an idea for him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chismo said:


> :bahgawd


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*THE ATF WWF/E MOTN RANKING

PART 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35168058-post1158.html
PART 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35207825-post1224.html

PART 3 
(260-241)

#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000









#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007









#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009









#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North









#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989









#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003









#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992









#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007









#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009









#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013









#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993









#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988









#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991









#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002









#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002









#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001









#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999









(***1/2)
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008









#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990









#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013








*​


Spoiler: List so far



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Posted this elsewhere, but with the recent Kobashi talk, ill post here too. Not finished, but thought id post it. Small list of the Best Of Kobashi: (Includes tag matches)

Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Toshiaki Kawada vs Jumbo Tsuruta/Akira Taue/Masanobu Fuchi 10/19/90 
Kenta Kobashi/Mistuharu Misawa/Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta/Akira Taue/Masanobu Fuchi 04/20/91 
Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs Toshiaki Kawada/Mitsuharu Misawa (11/21/91)
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta/Masa Fuchi/Yoshinari Ogawa (AJ 1/10/92)
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta/Akira Taue/Masa Fuchi (AJ 1/24/92) 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Toshiaki Kawada vs. Jumbo Tsuruta/Masanobu Fuchi/Akira Taue 05/22/92 
Kenta Kobashi/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Dan Kroffat/Doug Furnas 5/25/92 *
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Akira Taue/Masa Fuchi/Jun Akiyama (AJ 1/8/93)
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue/Yoshinari Ogawa 07/02/93 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue/Masa Fuchi (AJ 10/2/93)
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue 12/03/93 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Giant Baba vs. Masanobu Fuchi/Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue 02/13/94 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Masa Fuchi (AJ 1/7/94) 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Giant Baba vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue/Masa Fuchi (AJ 1/29/94) 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue 05/21/94
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (01/24/95) 
Kenta Kobashi/Mistuharu Misawa vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Akira Taue (06/09/1995) 
Kenta Kobashi/Mitsuharu Misawa/Jun Akiyama vs. Toshiaki Kawada/Yoshinari Ogawa/Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (7/8/95)
Kenta Kobashi/Jinsei Shinzaki vs. Mitsuhara Misawa/Takao Omori (10/24/1998) - Kobashi unleashes "The Burning Hammer" for the first time and pins Misawa clean!)
Kenta Kobashi/Toshiaki Kawada vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Akira Taue (6/4/99) 
Kenta Kobashi/Jun Akiyama vs. Mitsuharu Misawa/Yoshinari Ogawa 10/23/99 *
Kenta Kobashi/Kentaro Shiga vs. Jun Akiyama/Yoshinobu Kanemaru (Kobashi debuts new finisher, 10/17/02)

Kenta Kobashi vs. Jumbo Tsuruta (AJ 2/27/92)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJ 3/20/92)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada (Carnival, JIP) 04/14/93
Kenta Kobashi vs. Terry Gordy (AJPW Super Power Series 05/29/93)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Stan Hansen (AJ 7/29/93)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams (AJ 8/31/93)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJ 10/23/93)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Stan Hansen (AJPW Championship Carnival 04/10/94)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Steve Williams (AJPW Championship Carnival 04/15/94)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada 01/19/95
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (AJ 3/31/96)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJ 5/24/96)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Akira Taue (Kobashi wins Triple Crown, 7/24/96)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Stan Hansen 9/5/96 *
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada (AJ 10/18/96)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (01/20/97)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (10/21/1997)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Toshiaki Kawada 06/12/1998 
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (10/31/1998)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Vader (All Japan 1/15/99)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuhara Misawa (06/11/1999)
Kenta Kobashi vs Jun Akiyama (12/23/2000)
Kenta Kobashi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (03/1/2003)*
Kenta Kobashi vs. Tamon Honda 04/13/2003
Kenta Kobashi vs. Kensuke Sasaki (07/18/2003) - Tokyo Dome 
Kenta Kobashi vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (04/25/2004) - Tokyo Nippon Budokan
Kenta Kobashi vs. Jun Akiyama -07/10/2004 - Tokyo Dome
Kenta Kobashi vs. Samoa Joe (ROH) 10/1/05
Kenta Kobashi vs. KENTA (NOAH 3/5/06)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Wait, was Angle vs. Undertaker from SSeries 2000 really MOTN? I remember it being like the only match (other than Fully Loaded, which is kind of fun anyways) between Angle and Taker I didn't like


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Check out:

Kobashi v. Taue 10/4/04
Kobashi v. Taue 7/24/96 
Kobashi v. Tamon Honda 4/13/03
Kobashi v. Takayama 5/26/00 [[I haven't seen this but it's met with critical acclaim]]
Kobashi v. Akiyama 12/23/00
Kobashi/Misawa/Kawada v. Jumbo/Fuchi/Ogawa 1/10/92
Kobashi/Misawa/Kikuchi v. Taue/Fuchi/Akiyama 1/8/93


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Wait, was Angle vs. Undertaker from SSeries 2000 really MOTN? I remember it being like the only match (other than Fully Loaded, which is kind of fun anyways) between Angle and Taker I didn't like


Imo it was. That show was pretty crappy anyways. Only other match worth watching was Rock/Rikishi, and I thought Angle/Taker was more well-oiled.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Check out:
> 
> Kobashi v. Taue 10/4/04
> Kobashi v. Taue 7/24/96
> ...


Thanks. I'll add those.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Angle/Taker is definitely MOTN for SVS 2000, think I gave it ***3/4 and gave its only other competitor(Rock/Rikishi) ***1/2.


----------



## The Ultimate Warrior (Oct 19, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Official list of people released today:
> 
> JTG
> Drew McIntyre
> ...


About bloody time


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Huge fan of Rock/Rikishi. One of Rock's greatest babyface performances.

Shawn Michaels vs Triple H in 2006 started off pretty well and then fell off badly. Terrible overbooking and shenanigans. Chalk it up as another failure in their list, even if it isn't entirely their fault. Their 96 match is better.

LOL at Trent Baretta and Curt Hawkins' tweets yesterday. Trent might be the new favorite wrestler here in this thread, while Curt has to be the most hated. Even more than Kurt :kurt

You'll never guess which wrestler in 1996 had a great year in the ring.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Everyone watch Misawa matches today! 5 year anniversary of his death  Put aside the contrived stuff from the 'E & watch some real 'rasslin!

R.I.P.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

Ok guys, I'm in the mood for some crazy ass brawls. Let me know what I should watch!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This could be awesome!:

We can reveal that WWE has a new “Top Giants in Wrestling History” DVD planned!
http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/wwe-to-release-top-giants-dvd-blu-ray/67641/



Tanner1495 said:


> Ok guys, I'm in the mood for some crazy ass brawls. Let me know what I should watch!


The first ROH match I ever watched years ago. Still awesome:






This one's awesome too:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tanner1495 said:


> Ok guys, I'm in the mood for some crazy ass brawls. Let me know what I should watch!


http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1271721-brawls-project-possible-comp.html

May help you out.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What.....McIntyre is gone? But...but...3MB :sad:

Does anyone have the full list?

Holy shit, I can't believe WWE actually released a main eventer! Man, I really do wish Brodus Clay the best.

And Teddy's gone as well? Then who the fuck's gonna make tag team matches?

On a more serious note, I really would like to see the likes of Hawkins and McIntyre on the indy circuit. Could you imagine Trent? and Hawkins putting on a lengthy match? What was the longest match they had on Superstars anyway? I don't think any of them went past 10 minutes.

Before, I use to look at releases as a bad thing but recently I realize that it's the best thing that could happen to these guys' careers.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

KingDio said:


> Everyone watch Misawa matches today! 5 year anniversary of his death  Put aside the contrived stuff from the 'E & watch some real 'rasslin!
> 
> R.I.P.


Bump. Important that people see this. It was glossed over when a new page was created asking to see dumb brawl matches.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I love the idea of a big men set but I hope this doesn't mean we never get a :vader set. With the Mid South set that probably means we will never get a DiBiase set.....boooooo! :vince7


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

KingDio said:


> Bump. Important that people see this. It was glossed over when a new page was created asking to see dumb brawl matches.


I will support this as well. Many wrestlers can lay claim to many remarkable trademarks, but for my money, Misawa had the greatest timing I have ever seen, which spans a very long time. It wasn't just timing though, it was just a combination of a great in ring package. Execution, stamina of a mule, the versatility to have true classics ranging from Jumbo to Marufuji to Kawada and so many inbetween in tag matches, six mans or one on one didn't matter. Misawa/Kawada in particular has a serious case for best in ring ongoing pair in wrestling history from a quality standpoint and Kobashi/Misawa is just class. Guy could work with great finesse yet when heated and advancing feuds could throw such snug intensity. Even the sutblties like Misawa's penchant for taking breaks out of the ring to regroup at the right times or bring more intensity with each outing and adapt or even the psychology of if not having a power advantage at all coming at opponents with that fearless birage of elbows from all angles and the quick moveset adapted. Hell, even more cementing him as a total package is that the man had an all time heavyweight Puro run but while not near Sakaruba level had a pretty decent run in his young years as Tiger Mask II. Simply, Misawa is one of the very best performers to ever be in a squared circle. 

Puro matches build like a graphic novel where matches build upon one another, hence it is hard to fully appreciate why some matches are heralded in such elite company, but for fun matches that don't require a backstory to enjoy, just watch his 99 and 00 matches vs Vader or his 03 bout in NOAH vs Kobashi or if you want to start the full heavyweight journey, watch Misawa and CO vs Jumbo and chronies and start it there. I reccomend Suicidaldragon's youtube dragon for the key spots of rivalries and angles to kickstart Misawa.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Watching all the Cena vs Orton matches LOL


kidding.....no thanks


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Hitman said:


> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/other-wrestling/1271721-brawls-project-possible-comp.html
> 
> May help you out.


Fun list....

I gotta go the full 5 on Backlund/Patera Texas Death...nothing I don't love about it


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I will support this as well. Many wrestlers can lay claim to many remarkable trademarks, but for my money, Misawa had the greatest timing I have ever seen, which spans a very long time. It wasn't just timing though, it was just a combination of a great in ring package. Execution, stamina of a mule, the versatility to have true classics ranging from Jumbo to Marufuji to Kawada and so many inbetween in tag matches, six mans or one on one didn't matter. Misawa/Kawada in particular has a serious case for best in ring ongoing pair in wrestling history from a quality standpoint and Kobashi/Misawa is just class. Guy could work with great finesse yet when heated and advancing feuds could throw such snug intensity. Even the sutblties like Misawa's penchant for taking breaks out of the ring to regroup at the right times or bring more intensity with each outing and adapt or even the psychology of if not having a power advantage at all coming at opponents with that fearless birage of elbows from all angles and the quick moveset adapted. Hell, even more cementing him as a total package is that the man had an all time heavyweight Puro run but while not near Sakaruba level had a pretty decent run in his young years as Tiger Mask II. Simply, Misawa is one of the very best performers to ever be in a squared circle.
> 
> Puro matches build like a graphic novel where matches build upon one another, hence it is hard to fully appreciate why some matches are heralded in such elite company, but for fun matches that don't require a backstory to enjoy, just watch his 99 and 00 matches vs Vader or his 03 bout in NOAH vs Kobashi or if you want to start the full heavyweight journey, watch Misawa and CO vs Jumbo and chronies and start it there. I reccomend Suicidaldragon's youtube dragon for the key spots of rivalries and angles to kickstart Misawa.


Totally agree. Oh yeah, his matches against Vader are very good & I like those matches a lot. I've seen all the famed matches with Misawa and Kawada, everyone. Just in a stage right now of re-watching them & enjoying them again, been a few years.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

KingDio said:


> Totally agree. Oh yeah, his matches against Vader are very good & I like those matches a lot. I've seen all the famed matches with Misawa and Kawada, everyone. Just in a stage right now of re-watching them & enjoying them again, been a few years.


Misawa is one of the greatest of all time, recently watched a match with him and Hansen from 1990 and it was ungodly stiff. I am pretty sure it was the Triple Crown match he was rewarded with since he beat Jumbo.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Speaking of guys who like working with physicality (shitty transition from brawls), watching Sheamus and Harper work recently, have Sheamus and Harper ever gone one on one? I know they've been on opposite ends of six mans, but have the two ever gone one on one? I don't think they they have;however, I feel that the two could put on a good contest albeit their styles outside of physicality are very different.


----------



## Tanner1495 (May 21, 2011)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Speaking of guys who like working with physicality (shitty transition from brawls), watching Sheamus and Harper work recently, have Sheamus and Harper ever gone one on one? I know they've been on opposite ends of six mans, but have the two ever gone one on one? I don't think they they have;however, I feel that the two could put on a good contest albeit their styles outside of physicality are very different.


They had a match on NXT last year, right around the time of Money in the Bank if that helps.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE Weekly TV Shows Review (June 9-13)*

*WWE RAW 6/9*

*Money in the Bank Qualifying Match:* Sheamus vs Bad News Barrett ***1/4
Rusev vs Zack Ryder N/A
Rybaxel vs Goldust & R-Truth 3/4*
The Usos vs Fandango & Damien Sandow 1/4*
Xavier Woods vs Bo Dallas 1/2* 
*Money in the Bank Qualifying Match:* Cesaro vs Rob Van Dam **
Paige vs Alicia Fox * 
Jack Swagger vs Santino Marella 1/2* 
Dean Ambrose, Roman Reigns & John Cena vs The Wyatt Family **3/4 

*WWE Main Event 6/10*

Jimmy Uso vs Luke Harper *1/4 
Kofi Kingston vs Rusev * 
Dolph Ziggler vs Seth Rollins **1/4 

*WWE NXT 6/12*

Bayley, Emma & Paige vs Charlotte, Sasha Banks & Summer Rae 3/4*
Colin Cassady vs Sylvester Lefort N/A 
Sami Zayn vs Mr. NXT 3/4*
*NXT Championship:* Adrian Neville (c) vs Tyson Kidd ***

*WWE Superstars 6/12*

Dolph Ziggler vs Titus O'Neil 3/4*
Adam Rose vs Heath Slater 3/4*

*WWE Smackdown 6/13*

Erick Rowan vs Jey Uso 1/2*
Roman Reigns vs Bad News Barrett *3/4
Bo Dallas vs R-Truth *
Cesaro vs Sheamus **1/4
Fandango vs Adam Rose N/A
Jack Swagger vs Big E 1/2*
Alicia Fox vs Aksana 1/4*
*Money in the Bank Qualifying Match:* Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose ***


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

I'm so curious as to why people still waste their time with modern day wrestling, hilarious to me. But that's just my outlook on it, I think it's sadly hilarious. I'll watch the same old matches over and over, I don't need any of this new shit, it's more contrived than ever nowadays. Just a joke nowadays, the whole nature of it.

Speaking of the 'E though, what are everyone's thoughts on Mark Henry? I don't know, I've always been a fan of his cause he is good for his size & for the way he is limited in the ring. He's not that bad really, and I'm happy he got a title reign in 2011 after so many years; he deserved it. His HIAC match with Orton from '11 wasn't that bad really. He was a legitimate athlete & for real the world's strongest man, so he ain't a joke. Despite what you might think, I like this video of him in 2011 before he won the title...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Mark Henry's one of my 15 favourite wrestlers of all time. He's been awesome since 2003.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Really dig Henry. Loved his WHC run in 2011. Wish he had beat :cena3 at MitB last year even if he lost the belt at the next PPV. LOVED the interview he did with Rosenberg last year! Seems like a good dude.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cue Mark Henry vs John Morrison video.

Henry rules. Found a match on a random Smackdown in 2002 where he demolishes Reverend D-Von & I like it a lot. Back when Henry had that terrible entrance music about where his dogs were at & he was all about doing strong man competitions weekly.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

KingDio said:


> I'm so curious as to why people still waste their time with modern day wrestling, hilarious to me.



Cesaro
Bryan
Seth Rollins
Dean Ambrose
Roman Reigns
Henry
Sheamus
Harper
Virus
***** Casas
Rush
Blue Panther
***** Navarro
Solar
Minoru Suzuki
Ishii
Thatcher
Kyle Matthews
Hechicero
Charles Lucero


Should I go on? If you can watch Rhodes/Americans (18/03) and still not care about wrestling, you have no heart good sir.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I decided to ignore that part b/c...well...there isn't any reason to bother w/it, tbhayley. The Michael Elgin's & Marufuji's of the world aren't the only ones left out there.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Yeah that post was ridiculous.

Cody, thoughts on the 'what's the appeal of Sheamus' thread?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Mark Henry's one of my 15 favourite wrestlers of all time. He's been awesome since 2003.


I knew that I am a bigger Henry mark than you! I'll go a step further than you. I even found awesome Mark Henry material from 1998! He had this handicap match against Chyna and X-Pac where he hits one of the biggest and most deadly slams I've ever seen.






Here it is around 6:16, but this entire match was total fun. He had a match with Terry Funk too that I remember being loads of fun. And of course it's always great to know that Terry Funk and Mark Henry worked together.

Finished watching King of the Ring 1996. Actually a very fun PPV. Stone Cold vs. Marc Mero was a good opener, Vader/Roberts was fun, Michaels/Bulldog was a lot better than their match the month prior, and Austin winning the tournament was an all-time great moment. But Mankind/Taker. Call me crazy, but the ending to that match is among the most shocking moments in WWE history. Excellent match, especially the second half when they pick things up.

:lol KingDio


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK/Smith at KOTR is one of my favourite WWF matches. Spoke about it numerous times here.


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

About to watch No Mercy 07 on the Network. What should I expect?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

hag said:


> About to watch No Mercy 07 on the Network. What should I expect?


If you're either a Triple H or a Randy Orton fan, then it's the greatest thing ever. If not, then it's actually not that bad. I'm not a big fan of the opener, but a lot of people really enjoyed HHH/Orton I. Also not too big on HHH/Umaga personally, but others have said good things about it as well. The main event though is glorious. I remember the six man tag and Finlay/Mysterio being fun too. Punk/Viscera could have been great, but they ended it after two minutes for some reason. But the big surprise was Batista vs. Khali. Kinda dry at times, but it was actually not bad. Ending was hilarious. Chicago crowd rules too.

The six man tag from IYH: International Incident is amazing. Everyone, even Sid and Ahmed Johnson, killed it out there.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

HHH vs Orton LMS is a good match, just rewatched it yesterday (Y)


----------



## hag (Aug 9, 2013)

This opening segment is way too long for a PPV, what is this? Impact?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The six man tag from IYH: International Incident is amazing. Everyone, even Sid and Ahmed Johnson, killed it out there.


Yup. Very underrated and hardly anyone mentions it, more people need to watch it tbh.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

hag said:


> This opening segment is way too long for a PPV, what is this? Impact?


Filling time for a last-minute injury to the golden meal ticket.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

IYH is full of good shit. Some of my favorite matches of that era. Dat final 4? :lenny 



The Hitman said:


> HBK/Smith at KOTR is one of my favourite WWF matches. Spoke about it numerous times here.


:hbk2 was on fire in 96. Great matches with wen, :nash (LOVE this match I was there!! :mark: ), Davey, :vader, Foley and even got a damn good match (Survivor Series 96) outta Sid.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Hitman said:


> Yup. Very underrated and hardly anyone mentions it, more people need to watch it tbh.


I'll third this. Everyone goes all balls-out and made for a fucking excellent tag imho. Should be watched by WAY more people.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I need to rewatch that Vader/HBK SS match, remember it being a TON of fun. 

NM 2007 Opening segment is way too long, Y2J should have returned that night, crowd would have gone nuts


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I need to rewatch that Vader/HBK SS match, remember it being a TON of fun.
> 
> NM 2007 Opening segment is way too long, Y2J should have returned that night, crowd would have gone nuts


I blame Benoit. Had he not been a complete wackjob, his feud with Punk could've been ending in Punk's hometown, with the Chicago native capturing his first title in WWE.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Ehh idk about that, those two could have put on some GOAT shit though 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

1996 boys, Henry was ALWAYS the fucking sauce.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I'll third this. Everyone goes all balls-out and made for a fucking excellent tag imho. Should be watched by WAY more people.





The Hitman said:


> Yup. Very underrated and hardly anyone mentions it, more people need to watch it tbh.



Was just about to come in here and ask if anyone has a rec, haven't seen this tag will give it a watch, thanks (Y)



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I need to rewatch that Vader/HBK SS match, remember it being a TON of fun.
> 
> NM 2007 Opening segment is way too long, Y2J should have returned that night, crowd would have gone nuts


I just watched HBK/Vader Summerslam 1996 last weekend when I went on my 20 match Vader binge following his podcast with Steve, still an excellent, EXCELLENT match. I have it at ****1/2 as HBK's third best bout of 1996 behind only Mindgames and IYH vs Diesel. The restarts are stupid but they don't harm the match at all and I totally understand the logic behind doing them, to keep Vader strong (even though they totally botched most of his run). It's funny that Shawn throws that hissy fit in the middle of the match cause Vader forgets to move on 1 elbow, because if Shawn wasn't such a complete prick he'd realize he was having one hell of a fucking match with Vader before that elbow. 

You should watch that match and if you need any other Vader recs holler at your boy cause I made a list of like 20 or so of my favorite Vader matches. I do love me some good old Leon White.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Here's some C&P of my Road to New Orleans project. I'll start with the Lesnar vs. Taker feud.

Unforgiven 2002
WWE Title Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker

This won't get a special star rating for me, but that didn't matter. The story both told was very good. Rare is it to see Taker get manhandled. On the other hand, Lesnar had been established as a legitimate bad-ass, wiping through everyone, so it meant something for Taker to manhandle him in return. The fuck finish shouldn't have been on a $35-40 PPV event, but I understood the story here. Undertaker in a September PPV main event that has a fuck finish, leading to a HIAC main event for the October PPV. Sounds familiar.

No Mercy 2002
WWE Title - Hell in a Cell
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker

With this match taking place in Little Rock, I wonder how many in the SEC region will have been blessed to see both this and the upcoming WrestleMania XXX match in NOLA live. Going into this, Lesnar had broken Taker's hand with a propane tank, so the Dead Man was permitted to wear the mask, which played as both a gift and a curse for him. Taker, furious over Lesnar and Paul Heyman prying into his personal life, of course used the cast to dominate the former National Wrestling Champion early. Lesnar took a fucking beating in this one. However, he was able to return this beating tenfold, working on Taker's broken hand.

It's a very, very, very rare sight to see Undertaker be put in a position in which he has to deliver hope spots, but he was fantastic here in doing so. He really had the crowd behind, while the WWE Champion did a great job in making sure Taker was sympathetic. But Taker wouldn't go down without a fight, showing primal instinct and fighting off Lesnar to prevent the cast from being torn off. Lesnar eventually was successful in removing it, going right to work on the bare hand of the Phenom, which felt odd to see since Taker wears gloves in every match.

I also loved Taker grabbing Heyman by the tie through a hole in the Cell, bouncing him on the grating steel until the former ECW owner bled. That showed what Heyman was willing to sacrifice to make sure his meal ticket Lesnar could get time to recuperate and gain an advantage. And speaking of blood, holy shit there was a fuckton in this match. Not only was there a moment in which Taker was down on his knees to gasp for breath, his crimson face pouring buckets of blood on the mat (I'm sure Jay Briscoe had to have gotten that idea for his ROH cage match against Samoa Joe from this), but as the match came to its conclusion, his blood was just dripping everywhere, including different parts of Lesnar's body. It was like Undertaker's head/face was a broken faucet. Absolutely fucking disgusting, and yet beautiful to watch unfold.

What a finish too, with Taker about to hit a Tombstone, but likely dazed from the all the punishment and blood loss, losing balance to Lesnar, the WWE Champion then hoisting the WWE Icon on his shoulders and dropping him for an F5 to bring this classic to an end. A phenomenal Hell in a Cell match that defines the genre, just drenching with storytelling and psychology. We're in for a treat at the Superdome. ****1/4

SmackDown! - October 4, 2003
Brock Lesnar & John Cena vs. Undertaker & Kurt Angle

This was a good TV main event, nothing all that special, which was just fine. The majority of the match was Lesnar being a bitch, while he and Cena took turns on Angle. Taker was great when he got the hot tag, a house of fire going back-and-forth on the heels. The most memorable spot of the match by far was when Taker gave Lesnar a big boot to knock him out of the ring. Unfortunately, Lesnar fell like he was diving into a swimming pool, appearing to hit the floor headfirst. No wonder the dude got away from WWE so quickly. ***1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Super Sonic said:


> Here's some C&P of my Road to New Orleans project. I'll start with the Lesnar vs. Taker feud.
> 
> Unforgiven 2002
> WWE Title Match
> ...




We talk about it all the time so I won't dwell on it, but I just have to mention that the finish to that HiaC match between Taker and Lesnar is still one of the single most impressive things I've ever seen done in a wrestling ring. When Lesnar reverses Takers Tombstone, then just hoists a 300+ lb Taker onto his shoulders like a sack of shit then whips him around for the F5, AFTER a grueling 30 minute Cell match...I mean that's not even human. Lesnar is the only human being I can think of who could pull off such a feat, have the stamina to go full bore for 30 minutes in that atmosphere then still have the strength to rag doll a 300lb man, I mean Jesus Christ. I rated that match quite a bit higher than you, at ****3/4 it's my second favorite cell match behind only the original Taker/Shawn one. A few mis haps with Taker's selling of the hand are the only thing that keeps me from giving it the perfect rating. I miss the days when feuds built up to a bloody, violent cell match. Now we get a random, unworthy feud thrown in there once a year because the PPV calendar calls for it. It sucks, no getting around it. There hasn't been one single GREAT cell match at the Hell in a Cell PPV, though there have been 1-2 pretty good ones.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

WWE knows that Hell in a Cell comes every October, there's no excuse not to have a feud ready by the time that event rolls around. I really wish ROH could've booked a Hell in a Cell match (call it "Hell Without Honor" for legal reasons) between Kevin Steen and El Generico to show that it can still be delivered the right way.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Gimmick PPV's have ruined gimmick matches. That is all.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can't argue w/that.

Though a bunch of those PPV's were far from bad (every single MITB, most TLCs and a few Elimination Chambers for instance).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Gimmick PPVs may have ruined the matches, but even if there was no such thing as the HIAC PPV every year, I still can't think of a feud over the past four years that would have warranted such a match, tbh. Maybe Shield/Wyatts, MAYBE Punk/Cena. That's about it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not sure if you counted Taker/HHH in that list. If not, then I'd say Punk/Cena is the closest.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was there a real need for Punk/Cena to have a HIAC though?

Feuds needing to end with a cell match don't really exist anymore imo. 

Maybe Wyatts/Shield.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched Ambrose vs. Wyatt from Smackdown last night. Really good match with some excellent selling from Dean. Finish was predictable but good stuff beforehand. *** 1/4

Also, I'm sad that Legends House is over...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> Gimmick PPVs may have ruined the matches, but even if there was no such thing as the HIAC PPV every year, I still can't think of a feud over the past four years that would have warranted such a match, tbh. Maybe Shield/Wyatts, MAYBE Punk/Cena. That's about it.





ATF said:


> Not sure if you counted Taker/HHH in that list. If not, then I'd say Punk/Cena is the closest.





The Hitman said:


> Was there a real need for Punk/Cena to have a HIAC though?
> 
> Feuds needing to end with a cell match don't really exist anymore imo.
> 
> Maybe Wyatts/Shield.



I think if WWE had booked the feud properly, Shield/Wyatt's would have faced off at EC, then had a TLC match at WM, then completed the feud in a HiaC match at ER. That feud had so much more to offer but they hot shotted it by throwing a match on Raw to try and draw a rating. Oh well.

Punk/Cena as it was booked didn't call for a Cell match. HOWEVER, if they had never interjected ADR into that situation, then let Punk and Cena have a No DQ match or something at SVS or NoC, they might have had a great cell match at the 2011 HiaC PPV. As it is that triple threat is still really good, but come on, ADR had no business being in the Punk/Cena feud.

That really is indicative of just how badly feuds are booked, not one single feud since Edge/Taker in 2008 has really called for a Cell match. Wow. That's 6 years of luke warm feuds.

Is there anything worth watching on Raw/SD from this week? I missed both of them while I was on vacation.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Raw has Shield/Cena Vs Wyatts that should be watched. SD has Sheamus Vs Cesaro and Bray Vs Ambrose.

SS 03 Ramblings added to my BLOG~! today for anyone who missed it on here the first time around .

We almost got Cena/Punk HIAC in 2012 until Cena got injured and had to be replaced by fucking Ryback. Bah. Though yeah, the Cena/Punk rivalry didn't really warrant a HIAC match, as their feud wasn't a blood and guts HATE~! feud. I think I agree with The Rabid Wolverine in that we haven't had a feud since Undertaker/Edge in 08 that's warranted a HIAC match. And even some HIAC matches before then didn't need to be inside a cell (DX/McMahons, HHH/Jericho...).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would say that Punk/Hardy, Cena/Orton (yeah, I know), Undertaker/Kane, Undertaker/HHH, and Cena/Punk were all worthy of HIAC matches. If anything, some of these were more worthy of HIAC than prior HIAC matches. Undertaker/Mankind in 1998 was nothing more than a filler feud between two big names without anything going on, and they had a HIAC match. Jericho/HHH and Nash/HHH had no reason being in anything more than a No DQ match.

EDIT: Just to outline how bad the buildup to the 1998 Mankind/Taker match was, here is a summary of every RAW during the buildup of the PPV.

(6/1/98): Kane beats Undertaker in a #1 contender match. Mankind interferes in the match, but Undertaker no-sells the Mandible Claw and Mankind's interference wasn't that big of a deal.

(6/8/98): The HIAC match was casually announced by JR during a match between two grown men named Chainz and Puke. After that match (and several other matches that night), Undertaker chokeslammed both of those jabronis to oblivion and later on got arrested. Meanwhile, Kane and Mankind shove Austin into a casket in the main event. 

(6/15/98): Kane and Mankind win a tag team battle royal while Undertaker philosophizes about why he should trust Stone Cold when Austin doesn't trust anybody. The main event that night was a hell in a cell match, but I don't remember who was fighting who. Undertaker appears from under the ring and beats up Paul Bearer. Mankind and Undertaker don't really interact here.

(6/22/98): Undertaker beats the shit out of Paul Bearer in his house. Kane and Mankind fight each other backstage, but then later on, Mankind consoles Kane. Mankind does a promo where he calls Undertaker a coward. I think Mankind has a pointless match with Billy Gunn.

Now please ask yourself if this is how you properly build up a hell in a cell match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Raw has Shield/Cena Vs Wyatts that should be watched. SD has Sheamus Vs Cesaro and Bray Vs Ambrose.
> 
> SS 03 Ramblings added to my BLOG~! today for anyone who missed it on here the first time around .
> 
> We almost got Cena/Punk HIAC in 2012 until Cena got injured and had to be replaced by fucking Ryback. Bah. Though yeah, the Cena/Punk rivalry didn't really warrant a HIAC match, as their feud wasn't a blood and guts HATE~! feud. I think I agree with The Rabid Wolverine in that we haven't had a feud since Undertaker/Edge in 08 that's warranted a HIAC match. And even some HIAC matches before then didn't need to be inside a cell (DX/McMahons, HHH/Jericho...).





funnyfaces1 said:


> I would say that Punk/Hardy, Cena/Orton (yeah, I know), Undertaker/Kane, Undertaker/HHH, and Cena/Punk were all worthy of HIAC matches. If anything, some of these were more worthy of HIAC than prior HIAC matches. Undertaker/Mankind in 1998 was nothing more than a filler feud between two big names without anything going on, and they had a HIAC match. Jericho/HHH and Nash/HHH had no reason being in anything more than a No DQ match.




Let's quit beating around the bush and say what we are all thinking: without the Deadman around, Hell in a Cell lost a lot of it's significance. Takers strength of character and just who he was made everything seem more high stakes than it actually was. There have been great Cell matches that didn't involve him, but the feuds that culminated in a cell match that really stand out in my mind all involved the Undertaker. Maybe everyone doesn't share that exact viewpoint, but whenever I hear "Hell in a Cell" I immediately think of the Deadman and that some young punk is about to get the beating of his life at the hands of the Phenom. That's just the way it is and will always be.

I disagree that Punk/Hardy and Punk/Cena, as they were booked, called for a Cell match. Punk/Cena was built around vying for respect and proving who was indeed the best, not out of hatred towards one another. Hardy/Punk was more that Punk was trying to expose Hardy as nothing but a drug addict who fans loved while Punk preached truth and was boo'd. I just didn't see the hatred there, enough for a TLC match and a Cage match? Yes, absolutely. Warranting a Cell match? No, not in my opinion. They even built their PHENOMENAL Cage match around the escape, not a struggle, so that kinda tells you something.

If they had done Mankind/Taker Hell in a Cell before WM 13 or something, then yes that feud would have warranted it. But they didn't book it until a full year + afterwards, which is why it seemed to come out of nowhere. Foley says as much in his book, that he didn't think he deserved to be in a match of that magnitude so that's why he did the absolutely insane shit that he did. If Foley hadn't taken it upon himself to make that match special, there is a good chance that gimmick might have lost some luster because of how poorly they booked the lead up to the match. If they had delivered a crap match, hell in a cell wouldn't be seen as quite as big a deal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Off the top of my head, the ONLY HIAC match I can think of that happened and SHOULD have been inside HIAC that DIDN'T involve Undertaker was HHH/Foley at NWO 00.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

WWE sometimes try to pass off Hunter as the master of the cell, find that funny at times.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that didn't take long .


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

oh lord


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Let's quit beating around the bush and say what we are all thinking: without the Deadman around, Hell in a Cell lost a lot of it's significance. Takers strength of character and just who he was made everything seem more high stakes than it actually was. There have been great Cell matches that didn't involve him, but the feuds that culminated in a cell match that really stand out in my mind all involved the Undertaker. Maybe everyone doesn't share that exact viewpoint, but whenever I hear "Hell in a Cell" I immediately think of the Deadman and that some young punk is about to get the beating of his life at the hands of the Phenom. That's just the way it is and will always be.
> 
> I disagree that Punk/Hardy and Punk/Cena, as they were booked, called for a Cell match. Punk/Cena was built around vying for respect and proving who was indeed the best, not out of hatred towards one another. Hardy/Punk was more that Punk was trying to expose Hardy as nothing but a drug addict who fans loved while Punk preached truth and was boo'd. I just didn't see the hatred there, enough for a TLC match and a Cage match? Yes, absolutely. Warranting a Cell match? No, not in my opinion. They even built their PHENOMENAL Cage match around the escape, not a struggle, so that kinda tells you something.
> 
> If they had done Mankind/Taker Hell in a Cell before WM 13 or something, then yes that feud would have warranted it. But they didn't book it until a full year + afterwards, which is why it seemed to come out of nowhere. Foley says as much in his book, that he didn't think he deserved to be in a match of that magnitude so that's why he did the absolutely insane shit that he did. If Foley hadn't taken it upon himself to make that match special, there is a good chance that gimmick might have lost some luster because of how poorly they booked the lead up to the match. If they had delivered a crap match, hell in a cell wouldn't be seen as quite as big a deal.


If we are talking about the 2011 Punk/Cena feud, then I can definitely understand it not warranting a HIAC match as the feud at that point really was about respect. But the beauty of their 2012 feud was that the mutual respect that they once had turned into hatred. For Cena, it wasn't just about beating the guy that had his number, but rather beating some sense into a guy that stood against everything he believed in. For Punk, although he kept defeating Cena, he never truly proved to others that he was the superior man. As much as he hated to admit it, we as the audience knew just as well as Punk did that the only way for Punk to truly get what he wanted was to beat that sense into Cena as well. That's really the line of thinking behind them having a HIAC match in 2012, but since Cena was injured, we couldn't get the feud to progress into that last stage of brutality and violence.

With regards to the Punk/Hardy feud, I would actually make the argument that there was MORE heat between the two in their feud than many other HIAC matches. Yes, initially it was about Punk trying to expose Hardy of his moral hypocrisy, but that was only a tool that led to bitter hatred among the two. As the feud went on, it was less about druggy vs. straight edge and more about two guys that couldn't coexist on the same show. Dirtysheets at the time even commented about how many of the segments between the two reflected on the personal disdain that both guys had towards each other (Punk later on squashed these rumors when he talked about how he and Hardy actually had a good-standing working relationship, but the tangible hate on-screen was still apparent). I thought the TLC match was filled with the physicality needed to build some day to a hell in a cell match. Once again, if they actually did have a build-up to a hell in a cell match, then we would have seen more of those brutal violent moments, but that feud had all the tools needed to warrant hell in a cell.

But ultimately, this all really brings up a more important point, which is that the hell in a cell match truly isn't about an end to a heated feud. The HIAC is about ending a heated feud where one of the guys is a man that specializes in the match itself. Of course, those two guys in question are Undertaker and Triple H, but I would say that Kane and Foley can count as well as guys where the HIAC bears significance. But that's what it is. The feuds that ended up inside a cell are not necessarily the most brutal or the most heated. If they were, then something like Jericho/Michaels which was arguably the most heated feud in wrestling history would have gotten a cell match. It's just as much about "who" as much as it about "what" or "why". 

The one guy who I think could have added his name alongside the Takers and HHHs but didn't would have to be Randy Orton. Although he didn't win, Orton survived a HIAC with Undertaker and dished out significant punishment himself on to Taker. Later on as his character evolved from being the brash and cocky upstart to becoming a vicious and callous villain, Orton had all the makings of being another type of "cerebral assassin" himself. However, what hurt Orton to me would have to be that this development in his character occurred in an era where blading was outlawed, and Orton's other HIAC matches besides the Taker one were either not memorable (Sheamus, Henry, Bryan) or worse (Cena). Had those matches turned out to be classics, I really think Randy Orton could have carried on the legacy and reputation behind hell in a cell.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Off the top of my head, the ONLY HIAC match I can think of that happened and SHOULD have been inside HIAC that DIDN'T involve Undertaker was HHH/Foley at NWO 00.


That one and Batista/Hunter are the only two feuds I can think of that ended in a classic Hell in a Cell match with a feud that actually warranted it. Maybe I'm forgetting one, but damn. Two whole matches out of 20+ in the history of Cell matches that didn't involve the Phenom. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> If we are talking about the 2011 Punk/Cena feud, then I can definitely understand it not warranting a HIAC match as the feud at that point really was about respect. But the beauty of their 2012 feud was that the mutual respect that they once had turned into hatred. For Cena, it wasn't just about beating the guy that had his number, but rather beating some sense into a guy that stood against everything he believed in. For Punk, although he kept defeating Cena, he never truly proved to others that he was the superior man. As much as he hated to admit it, we as the audience knew just as well as Punk did that the only way for Punk to truly get what he wanted was to beat that sense into Cena as well. That's really the line of thinking behind them having a HIAC match in 2012, but since Cena was injured, we couldn't get the feud to progress into that last stage of brutality and violence.
> 
> With regards to the Punk/Hardy feud, I would actually make the argument that there was MORE heat between the two in their feud than many other HIAC matches. Yes, initially it was about Punk trying to expose Hardy of his moral hypocrisy, but that was only a tool that led to bitter hatred among the two. As the feud went on, it was less about druggy vs. straight edge and more about two guys that couldn't coexist on the same show. Dirtysheets at the time even commented about how many of the segments between the two reflected on the personal disdain that both guys had towards each other (Punk later on squashed these rumors when he talked about how he and Hardy actually had a good-standing working relationship, but the tangible hate on-screen was still apparent). I thought the TLC match was filled with the physicality needed to build some day to a hell in a cell match. Once again, if they actually did have a build-up to a hell in a cell match, then we would have seen more of those brutal violent moments, but that feud had all the tools needed to warrant hell in a cell.
> 
> ...



I'll take your word for it on Hardy/Punk, as I wasn't watching as closely at the time as you were. Punk/Cena should have atleast gone to a Street Fight/No DQ match, but I think you really hit the nail on the head: once Foley retired, Taker and Hunter were really the standard bearers of the Cell match. They were the ones who had made names for themselves in that atmosphere, so when they had feuds that escalated and got more and more heated, it seemed natural for a Cell match to end things. There isn't a single guy on the roster right now who made his name in a Cell match. Therefore they are always going to be fighting an uphill battle trying to make it seem legit having two guys settle a score in a Cell match. If they finally pull their heads out of their asses and scrap the gimmick PPV's, I think one of the first orders of business should be to have Bray establish that as his match. He's got the character and the ability, he could be the one to save it if they just gave him the chance with a worthy opponent. It would be cool if they did one more Cena/Bray match at Summerslam in Hell in a Cell with Bray getting his big win, but that's not gonna happen and anyways they still have MitB and Battleground to get through to even get to that point.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I would add HHH/HBK in that list of HIAC matches without Undertaker that warranted one, but I'd rather it never to have happened at all.

All of this really brings up a more important point, which is that we need more wrestlers to specialize in some sort of match. We do have a few today that do, such as Cena with I Quit matches, Kane with everything, Del Rio with Last Man Standing, and RVD and Christian with ladder matches. But that's it. However, look at the potential on the roster. Daniel Bryan should have either the 2/3 Falls or the submissions match be his forte considering that his gimmick is all about being the best wrestler on the roster. Dean Ambrose needs to have some sort of street fight or in a perfect world, the first blood match to go along with his psychotic character. Seth Rollins can carry on the legacy of the ladder match as Christian and RVD retire.

Bray Wyatt however can take a step even further than all the others. With Bray, we have the opportunity to get a whole new revolutionary gimmick match. He's one of the most special characters this company has had, and it would do him a disservice not to give him his own type of match. I'm not sure what that new match would be though, considering that everything under the sun has been done. Any ideas?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/HBK probably did warrant a HIAC match given the way WWE were pushing the feud... but the feud itself was so forced that I just can't get behind that idea .

And as great as it is, I'm not sure HHH/Batista needed HIAC either. I'm just glad it ended up being in a HIAC lol, as I doubt they could have had a match THAT good with any other stipulation.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

After rewatching 2005, HHH/Batista definitely warranted HIAC. Don't forget that the point of the match wasn't just to put over Batista, but it also served as a kayfabe reason to get rid of Triple H from television for the time being.

But if we keep holding hell in a cell to such a magnificent standard with regards to what feuds warrant the use of it, then you can make an argument that even Michaels/Undertaker didn't warrant the match. Certainly the Armageddon 6-Man match didn't warrant it since the reason that it happened was because Mick Foley and Vince McMahon were feuding with each other. And how about Undertaker/Batista? Did they really hate each other as much as Punk and Hardy or Triple H when he faced Batista? Shit, I don't even think Brock and Taker hated each other enough to warrant a cell match under these incredibly high standards that you guys have. Once again, it's just as much, if not more, about "who" than "why".


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lesnar threatened Undertaker's wife while she was PREGNANT. If anything that's the one HIAC match that absolutely should have happened .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not a big deal. D'Lo Brown did worse to Terri while she was pregnant.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

She faked the pregnancy so it doesn't count .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eh I guess you're right. The Brocktagon threatening to insert the Cocktagon into a woman warrants a bloodshed.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> After rewatching 2005, HHH/Batista definitely warranted HIAC. Don't forget that the point of the match wasn't just to put over Batista, but it also served as a kayfabe reason to get rid of Triple H from television for the time being.
> 
> But if we keep holding hell in a cell to such a magnificent standard with regards to what feuds warrant the use of it, then you can make an argument that even Michaels/Undertaker didn't warrant the match. Certainly the Armageddon 6-Man match didn't warrant it since the reason that it happened was because Mick Foley and Vince McMahon were feuding with each other. And how about Undertaker/Batista? Did they really hate each other as much as Punk and Hardy or Triple H when he faced Batista? Shit, I don't even think Brock and Taker hated each other enough to warrant a cell match under these incredibly high standards that you guys have. Once again, it's just as much, if not more, about "who" than "why".



Giving Bray his own signature match is a great idea and one I would definitely support, I just don't have a clue what they could possibly do. Given Brays character and the PG rating, it's hard to think of something that would be allowed under the current constraints that hasn't already been done. I mean one idea could be a Cage match with the Wyatt family surrounding the ring so you have to win by pin fall or submission, but they already did that and it totally sucked at Extreme Rules. Or a Cell match crossed with an I Quit Match, where you can't win by pinfall you have to say the words "I Quit". 

Those are lousy ideas I know I'm just pointing out it's awfully hard to think of a brand new match that fits Brays character, is exciting, and fits in the constraints of PG. You can't do First blood, barb wire, or any of that stuff.


#ROOT said:


> Lesnar threatened Undertaker's wife while she was PREGNANT. If anything that's the one HIAC match that absolutely should have happened .


Agreed 100%. They did a pretty awesome job building to a Cell match in just 2 short months with that feud. The goals were a.) to make Taker seem more human and more relatable b.) to make Lesnar appear like the most callous dick head on the planet c.) to elevate Lesnar so that he was unquestionably "the guy". I think they managed to accomplish all 3 goals in a short time span. Wasn't Heyman booking the show around that time? His booking of SD back then was top notch.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Daniel Bryan can be one agressive dude, just watch some of his finest ROH matches. The problem is that his brutality is represented by his kicks to the head, moves that are not allowed in the current WWE era, or by his chokings.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If anyone is stuck for a match to watch:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Srdjan99 said:


> Daniel Bryan can be one agressive dude, just watch some of his finest ROH matches. The problem is that his brutality is represented by his kicks to the head, moves that are not allowed in the current WWE era, or by his chokings.



Totally agree with that sentiment. I would love to see Bryan work a more vicious, striking, mat based style like he used to in ROH now that he's gotta cut out some of the high spots from his repertoire. He doesn't need the head butt, the tope, or the missile drop kick. He can just crank up the intensity of his striking, maybe add some more elbow smashes, and really just be a demon with his holds. Bryan is hands down one of the best wrestlers to ever walk the face of the Earth, he will be great no matter what he does, he just needs to work for some longevity now and protect himself better. I personally like the style he worked against Morishima/KENTA/McGuinness more than his current WWE style, although both are awesome. 



The Hitman said:


> If anyone is stuck for a match to watch:


One of my favorite go to matches whenever I'm bored and feel like watching some Eddie. His heel character really comes into full focus in that match. Jericho was really good, obviously, he was there for all the spots and worked some slick moves with Eddie, but Eddie's character and antics are really what take that match from just "great" to "all time great". I love how Eddie used to get so caught up on dudes "pulling his hair". That's some of the oldest heel schtick in the book but the way Eddie does it, even going so far as to pull the refs hair, gets a laugh out of me every time. God Bless Eddie Guerrero, there won't ever be another like him.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Lesnar/Bryan in the Cell would make a pot boil within a minute.



The Hitman said:


> If anyone is stuck for a match to watch:




:hb What's better than a dirty Monterrey brawl?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Ok this is a weird discussion but does anyone see the similarities between Dean Ambrose's promo voice and Sean Penn's character in I Am Sam?


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Continuing the C&P of my Road to NOLA project. We start with the beginning of greatness, as another element of greatness nears its conclusion.

TLC 2012

Hardcore Match
Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield

Highly suggest everyone go back to rewatch this, not just for storyline reasons, but because wow Reigns was fucking green here. This match also had some pacing issues, with the red-hot Brooklyn crowd sometimes becoming silent. HOWEVER, this match was absolutely chaotic and brought back memories of the TLC pioneer days during the Attitude Era. What this did was showcase what an unfuckable unit that the Shield was, getting 3-1 on one advantages constantly and being so entertaining and violent in doing so. That bad bump Seth Rollins took through those tables seems like it was worth it in hindsight. This was a great choice to start my rewatch. ****

MITB Contract - Ladder Match
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena

Like the other standout match of the evening, this match also had some pacing issues, with patches of silence from the Brooklyn crowd. This was still very entertaining though, Ziggler bumping like a pinball to the crowd's delight. I'm also always a sucker for anytime a crowd treats a match like it's Rock vs. Hogan at WM18. Their reaction to AJ Lee betraying Cena to hand Ziggler the win was hilarious too. ***1/2

Raw - January 7, 2013: The Good Shit

Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena

Don't love this as much as I did a year ago. However, the crowd was hot and the action was crisp. Just seemed to lack a storytelling to go with Ziggler's fantastic pacing. ***1/4

WWE Title - TLC Match
CM Punk vs. Ryback

Whereas Ziggler vs. Cena had pacing with little storytelling, this had the storytelling but lacked the pacing. Ryback did his job in showcasing his strength, with Punk of course being the ring general and outsmarting the simple-minded challenger. I didn't mind the Shield's interference because it served multiple storylines. It was obvious that Punk's days as champion were numbered. ***

CM Punk and The Rock confrontation

Punk comes out first to go on a VERY long rant that was fantastic. Just a miserable prick, likely using reality to fuel the gimmick, bitching about WWE being a business over art, and then tying that into how little the fans matter. That of course brought the People's Champion out, and they had a fantastic verbal confrontation. Neither man was afraid of each other whatsoever, both just oozing very different flavors of confidence, only for Rock to leave Punk with a Rock Bottom. Tremendous segment.



SmackDown! - January 11, 2013: The Good Shit

CM Punk and Paul Heyman have a series of promos filmed at SunLife Stadium, just doing a simple yet fantastic job of trolling Miami, Punk believing that Rock has no chance against him. Awesome.

The Rock's Return to SmackDown!

Another incredibly segment here, with the hometown Miami crowd amped to see the Great One, for the first time in a SmackDown! ring after a decade-long absence from the show that had its named inspired by him. Then the Rhodes Scholars come out to have an absolutely splendid verbal confrontation with Rock. This segment worked on every level, and how did the Scholars as I write this become such afterthoughts?

World Title - Last Man Standing Match
Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio

I'm not the biggest fan of LMS matches, because whereas the drama is in the ten-count, that means there can be a bit too much resting and lack of pacing for what I'm accustomed to. However, the story was very good here, and the finish was very, very well-done to get Del Rio over as a babyface while keeping Show strong. ***1/4


Raw - January 14, 2013: The Good Shit

The show opens with Vince McMahon in the ring, and he's interrupted by Big Show, who gets dressed-down while whining about what happened three days earlier. Big Show is just a fantastic heel, so fantastic that I watched this entire segment despite Alberto Del Rio inserting himself into it.

The Rock & Mick Foley have a brief backstage reunion, only for Vickie Guerrero to interrupt and disrespect them. Foley is shocked to see Rock allow himself to be dressed down.

Cage Match
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena

I really just don't care for this series as much as I did a year ago, and I believe I have one reason why Ziggler has become an afterthought: based on this series and his matches before 2013, Ziggler generally seems to base his moves all on high-impact shit. It feels like he is always swinging for a home run, rather than doing the basics, getting on base, and getting some RBIs. Hot crowd as usual though. I am interested in seeing Ziggler as a babyface to see if that work holds up and his burial being justified or not. ***1/4

The Rock Concert IV

Another amazing segment from the Rock, a sports-entertainment style piece of pro wrestling that any fan or non-fan would enjoy. He's so damn talented at being an entertainer, and delivered an unforgettable receipt to Vickie for her disrespect towards him. This was genuinely amusing without the slightest bit of feeling like low hanging fruit entertainment.

THEN, Rock flipped a switch and showed how much all that time in Hollywood has paid off, becoming completely serious and calling out CM Punk. As Punk would try to laugh off Rock, the challenger was dead serious, oozing an unbreakable confidence when he said Punk's historic WWE Title reign would end at the Royal Rumble. The show even ends with a brawl, which I don't mind. Punk was easily gotten to and with Rock being such a huge star/bad-ass, it was good that although Punk had major chickenshit tendencies, he actually COULD throw down, and perhaps his ego with the expectation of casual fans watching and making an even bigger name for himself at a bonafide movie star's expense gave him the fuel to not back down. Wow I can't wait to rewatch the good shit at the Rumble now.


----------



## KidCharlamagne (Apr 18, 2008)

Soooooo

I'm still wondering in 2014, why did Hhh go over randy orton at wrestlemania 25? 

Aaaaaaand why didn't we get a cena edge match, and instead big show getting thrown into a dumb as fuck love triangle with Vicki and edge and ruining any semblance of a good match, I felt edge should have gone over cena one on one at that match, but boy I love the heels...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll answer those for ya:
1) because he's HHH and he HAS to fucking go over;
2) because they wanted to show off Cena as Superman I guess (w/that AA spot).

Oh, and btw, Edge/Cena/Show WAS a good match. You should go back and watch it. Furiously paced and they tried their asses to tell a good story out of the little they had. Plus, wheater you like Cena or not, you can't help to admit that that AA spot at the end was impressive.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

More C&P from the Road to NOLA.

THE JOURNEY'S NEXT ROAD STOP

Royal Rumble 2013: The Good Shit

World Title - Last Man Standing Match
Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show

Not as exciting as their first LMS match, but still good due to the storytelling. I loved that Del Rio outsmarted Show again. Del Rio really was showing signs for a very brief period of being a top marquee babyface for the WWE. ***

The 2013 Royal Rumble Match

Excellent Rumble match, one of the best ever. This just had so much going for it to make it a classic. Most important is that the match was NEVER dull. That should be so easy to do for this gimmick match, but we've seen so many times that doesn't turn out to be the case (1999, I'm looking at you.) Chris Jericho's return after being fired several months before was a truly amazing moment, and probably the last time he could ever come back to a huge ovation.

Jericho and Dolph Ziggler as the starting entrants were excellent lasting to almost the very end, but there were of course other splendid moments as well. Godfather was a great nostalgia entrant, walking down as the master pimp, stepping in the ring, and immediately being eliminated, landing safely on his feet and receiving a standing ovation as he departed from ringside. Not a bad way to cash them checks. There was also the surprise appearance of Goldust, which of course drew the attention of his brother Cody Rhodes (they were still not friendly at the time of this match.) In a nice piece of storytelling, Cody did the Goldust get-on-your-back-and-throw-an-uppercut to Ziggler, sending a message that only HE could bully his brother.

What also made this match work so well is that the stars were spread out. Jericho to start the match, Sheamus about 10 entrants later, Cena about 10 after that, with other big names such as Rey Mysterio, Ryback, and Randy Orton spread out as well. In addition, Kofi Kingston had a cute spot when he jumped on Tensai's back and ended up on the Spanish announce table to avoid elimination. He then used JBL's chair as a pogo stick to get to the apron. However, being the nitpicker than I am, why didn't Kofi just use ONE foot to move the chair (which had rolling wheels on its legs) to the apron and then he could simply step back into the ring?

The last six were quick stacked for its time, although over a year later, wouldn't be quite so epic right now. Jericho, Ziggler, Sheamus, Ryback, Cena, Orton. And when the finale became Cena vs. Ryback, it was fantastic storytelling, even with the winner being obvious. It was simply best for business for Cena to go on to headline WM29. A genuine MOTYC. ****1/2

WWE Title Match
CM Punk vs. The Rock

Before the match, Rock cut a timeless Dusty Rhodes styles promo, one of the absolute best of his career. Sure, he was glancing at a card or teleprompter, but I don't mind that. His delivery was just unmatched, explaining why this match, and more importantly the WWE Title, meant so much to him. With this being one of the best promos that the Rock has ever cut, and the Rock being one of if not THE best ever on the stick, this is easily one of the greatest promos in the history of the business.

The match itself has lost its luster to me, although I still enjoyed it. The match was all about the moment, which was the Rock bringing Punk's historic reign to an end finally, and gaining something that still meant so much to him despite moving on to a Hollywood career. As for the work, the storytelling was fine with Punk working on Rock's ribs and midsection. This was great because not only had the Shield mugged Rock days earlier, but Punk could use that to wind down the rustier Rock.

The Shield of course interfered on Punk's behalf with the lights turned out, and Vince McMahon was about to strip Punk of the title, but Rock demanded it to be restarted, insisting on earning the championship. That's when the portion of the match that really mattered mattered, very basic yet effective sports-entertainment. One of the most historic moments in WWE history.

MY NEXT ROAD STOP

Raw - January 27, 2013

The show started with a decent segment, CM Punk coming out to ironically bitch about being screwed. Certainly elevated the importance of the WWE Title. Later in the show, Punk interrupted the Rock's celebration, spewing a totally twisted narrative and demanding a rematch.

All that really matters on this show is the closing segment, in which Vince McMahon reveals video evidence that Paul Heyman had been in cahoots with the Shield and Brad Maddox in the recent few months. Vince was just great in brow-beating Heyman, while Heyman was tremendous in being a sleazy carny who knew the shit was about to hit the fan. Right when he's about to get fired, out comes Brock Lesnar to get in Vince's face, closing the show with an F5 to the chairman.

That was just a completely terrific segment that clicked on all cylinders, with impressive acting and the audience being glued as these three men played their roles to perfection. This needs to be included on the upcoming Heyman documentary/compilation.

Raw - February 4, 2013: The Good Shit

CM Punk opens the show with another fantastic whiny promo.

MizTV
Guest: Paul Heyman

Miz and Heyman have some fantastic chemistry here, with Miz being the lone guy to directly call out Heyman the bullshit that spews out of his mouth. Vickie Guerrero comes out to announce that she's the one that got Brock Lesnar to return the week before, and has a hilarious attempt at a prayer with Heyman for Vince McMahon. After Miz throws enough criticism, Lesnar gets fed up, crashes the segment, and beats the living fuck out of Miz. Tremendous segment.

Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk

This couldn't measure up their matches in Toronto, Miami, and Chicago, but that's fine. This was just a good Raw match with some occasional nice counters and star power. ***1/4

The final segment is Brad Maddox calling out the Shield, and he of course gets destroyed. Sheamus, Ryback, and John Cena come clean house, fed up with these assholes and get the upper hand, forcing a powder. The babyface portion of the locker room then blocks the Shield, forcing them to collide with the three juggernauts and take another powder to close the show. Good, solid booking here.

Raw - February 11, 2013: The Good Shit

The show once again begins with a terrific segment. The big media story of the time was the Pope resigning from his position. So Paul Heyman announced that out of fear and intimidation from Vince McMahon, he will resign. This brings out CM Punk, who convinces Heyman to cancel that idea and they verbally jerk each other, pissing off the crowd in the process. Amazing shit here.

Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho

This is an Elimination Chamber qualifier for Jericho, so it was obvious he'd win this. Good but nothing special match, typical for Raw. There were nice counters and submissions, but it lacked the intensity to be something special. I'll throw this suggestion out there: when Jericho finally calls it a career, his farewell match should be on a PPV/supercard against D-Bry. I want these two in a position to deliver an epic. ***


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ugh, Punk/Rock RR. That shit was BAD. First few minutes were a nice little brawl, but the rest is so bad I can't forgive that small good portion of it. Terrible selling, awful pacing, it tried WAY too hard to be epic, woeful false finish, and... the ending.... geez, that gives me the creeps. Granted, not as bad as the Big Show debacle at Battleground, which was BY FAR the worst ending to a PPV Main Event in years and one of the worst ever, but this one is still terrible. Like Lost and Mass Effect 3 terrible. You never end something like Lost or Mass Effect 3 did. I have it at a straight up DUD and I don't regret it.

The rematch at EC was alright, but compared to the original, it was fucking Bret/Austin.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*La Parka, Damien & Ciclope vs Hector Garza, Super Calo & Juventud Guerrera (WCW Nitro 05.26.1997)*



Great way to spend 8 minutes.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Parka :hb


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Parka :hb



Youre sigs are just slaying me dude. That picture of Paulie Walnuts with his hair all fucked up in the back of the car :lmao


That tag is tons of fun, first La Parka match I ever saw. I'd love to see one of his famous Lucha brawls you all rave about if anyone has a match rec I can search for...


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

More C&P of my Road to NOLA.

NOLA Preview on the Road to NOLA

Elimination Chamber 2013: The Good Shit

World Title Shot - Elimination Chamber Match
Kane vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Chris Jericho vs. Mark Henry vs. Jack Swagger vs. Randy Orton

A good Chamber match here, but lacked the exciting pace to make it truly memorable. It was truly laughable to see Swagger get such a strong push, especially considering the lineup for this match. ***1/4

The Shield vs. Sheamus, Ryback, & John Cena

Now this one holds up. The babyface juggernauts got a triple vertical suplex right at the beginning, almost equivalent to a football team getting a kickoff return touchdown. But from there, this was all about the Shield. They masterfully cut the ring in half, constantly getting the numbers advantage in their favor. It was a non-stop domination, but what made this so compelling is that because of the strong booking of the babyfaces, especially for Cena after all of his years as the face of the industry, it still seemed like at some point they would find a way back in.

Cena was tremendous playing the Ricky Morton face-in-peril here, and I laugh at anyone who questions this guy's wrestling ability. His selling both in body language and facial expressions was splendid. His hope spots were also great in making the audience believe that his team still had a chance. But the Shield were so focused, never once letting up, finding ways to bail each other out at the slightest hint of trouble. What a finish too to not only get this unit established as a force to be reckoned with, but to build up Roman Reigns. Oh yeah, since this is the WWE, the #! company in all of pro wrestling, there weren't any of the stupid tag legalities I see in TNA and the indies. An instant classic. ****1/4

WWE Title Match - No Champion's Advantage
The Rock vs. CM Punk

This was a bit better than the match in Phoenix, probably because Rock was three weeks removed from wrestling rather than 10 months. The storytelling was solid, but with Rock being so focused on his Hollywood career, that takes away his ability to truly be in the standard of ring shape that he set during his prime. I don't blame him for that though. I'm glad we got to get see these two wrestle, as it was a genuine dream match for me since Punk came to WWE. Hope that Rock vs. Cena II is on good on broadcast as it was live. ***

THE ROAD KEEPS GOING

Raw - February 18, 2013: The Good Shit

The Shield vs. Sheamus, Ryback, & Chris Jericho

Nothing too special here, which was just fine for Raw. A good match though that only solidified what an outstanding unit the Shield is, and marking the only time Jericho has mixed it up with any one of them. ***1/4

The Rock's Championship Celebration

Another phenomenal segment from the Rock, coming out to the local university's marching bad, pumping up the Lafayette crowd. He then retires the spinner belt and debuts a bad-ass title belt. The show ends with Cena on-stage to remind the audience that their rematch of the century could be on the horizon, only for CM Punk to ambush Cena from behind with the spinner belt, claiming that he wants the new one.

Raw - February 25, 2013
WWE Title Shot Match
John Cena vs. CM Punk

What made this match work so well is what Michael Cole said once it was over. This match had emotional, drama, and tension. It also had an unbelievable electricity, an atmosphere that felt like a legitimate PPV main event.

Punk started off trying to dominate the match with basic submission holds, such as the sleeper and abdominal stretch. However, with a career-defining rematch on the line for Cena, he was able to negate Punk. Frustrated and also starving to be in THE main event at WrestleMania, Punk quickened the pace, only for Cena to be on par with him every step of the way.

As the match got to its last third, the crowd was in a frenzy. While everyone had to have known Cena would win this, the work these two men made one believe that maybe we actually were going to get Rock vs. Punk III. They both had to pull out new shit they hadn't used in years, if never in their careers. For Punk, he used a beautiful piledriver, and when Cena kicked out, his face told the story, not knowing what he needed to do next. For Cena, he used a sitdown powerbomb on the smaller Punk, and as the match closed, pulled out a head-scissors. That it wasn't picture-perfect was understandable - these men had given EVERYTHING, so Cena was running on desperation and wouldn't logically to be able to pull that off perfectly. But it got the job done.

This match did its job in reminding the younger audience that Cena would indeed have a chance at redemption against the Rock. But with Punk hardly resorting to cheating (he may not have done so at all actually), it re-established him as a force to be reckoned with after all of the breaks he had gotten the previous several months, so that when his WrestleMania opponent would be announced, the audience would buy into it. One of the greatest matches in Raw history. ****1/2

Raw - March 4, 2013
The Rock and John Cena verbal confrontation

Another excellent segment from these two, with Rock getting in Cena's head when it was over, completely confident and negating all of Cena's talk.

Raw - March 11, 2013
Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler

These two have natural chemistry, although I'm not sure this says much about Ziggler. You have to be absolutely pathetic to not have chemistry with Bryan Danielson. ***1/4

Raw - March 18, 2013
IC Title Match
Wade Barrett vs. The Miz vs. Chris Jericho

Another fun match here, just good action all around. ***1/4

Raw - March 25, 2013
The Rock and John Cena verbal confrontation

Yet another excellent segment that should've been the go-home for WM29. All of the legends did an excellent job in bringing a new dimension in having Rock and Cena explain why their rematch of the century was so important to them. A flawless segment.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That tag is tons of fun, first La Parka match I ever saw. I'd love to see one of his famous Lucha brawls you all rave about if anyone has a match rec I can search for...


Bad blood and worse sound. Death wouldn't be enough for them. Three parts:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Youre sigs are just slaying me dude. That picture of Paulie Walnuts with his hair all fucked up in the back of the car :lmao
> 
> 
> That tag is tons of fun, first La Parka match I ever saw. I'd love to see one of his famous Lucha brawls you all rave about if anyone has a match rec I can search for...


PAULIE WALNUTS! :mark: :hb

Check that Santo/Parka brawl from Monterrey at the top of the page (if you're using the 25 posts per page setup).


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That Punk/Rock rating :deandre 

I need to rewatch but I remember it being garbage tbh


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Ugh, Punk/Rock RR. That shit was BAD. First few minutes were a nice little brawl, but the rest is so bad I can't forgive that small good portion of it. Terrible selling, awful pacing, it tried WAY too hard to be epic, woeful false finish, and... the ending.... geez, that gives me the creeps. Granted, not as bad as the Big Show debacle at Battleground, which was BY FAR the worst ending to a PPV Main Event in years and one of the worst ever, but this one is still terrible. Like Lost and Mass Effect 3 terrible. You never end something like Lost or Mass Effect 3 did. I have it at a straight up DUD and I don't regret it.
> 
> The rematch at EC was alright, but compared to the original, it was fucking Bret/Austin.


You read my mind lol. Pretty much my sentiments. Sad that Punks reign had to end like that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Bad blood and worse sound. Death wouldn't be enough for them. Three parts:


Thank you very very much Rah, appreciate it. I'll check it out when I get home.



Chismo said:


> PAULIE WALNUTS! :mark: :hb
> 
> Check that Santo/Parka brawl from Monterrey at the top of the page (if you're using the 25 posts per page setup).


I've got it qued up to watch as soon as I get home along with that other match Rah posted. Quick question though dude, who are the two scarred up, bloody, toothless Japanese wrestlers in your sig? They look like they survived Hiroshima....I'm intrigued.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I hate to be _tnat_ guy, SuperSonic, but how has all of that got anything to do with the road to NOLA? Fair enough maybe Bryan's run but I don't see how (for example) Alberto Del Rio vs. Big Show LMS has anythin to do with Mania 30 and the build up to it. I don't mean to be an asshat or anything, just a question

Hutz


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, if it ends up giving him more exposure to superb match "library" of THE SHIELD, let it be. :ambrose2 :rollins :reigns


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Quick question though dude, who are the two scarred up, bloody, toothless Japanese wrestlers in your sig? They look like they survived Hiroshima....I'm intrigued.


045 Junkies (Jun Kasai & Jaki Numazawa). And they survived far nastier deathmatches than Hiroshima.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

How Jun's face survived hitting a gusset plate last year, I'll never know.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

:trips5:trips5:trips5


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

When I started the project it was after the Raw in Chicago on 3/3, so I figured Shield would have a major angle in New Orleans.

WrestleMania XXIX: The Good Shit

Undertaker vs. CM Punk

Red-hot match from almost beginning to end, with Punk trying every tactic possible in order to pull the impossible. This had the story of Taker going after Punk at the beginning, pissed over Punk's disrespect, only for Punk to use an arm-drag when Taker tried the vintage arm-twist ropewalk chop. Other top moments include both men countering each other's finishers, Taker turning a simple pinfall attempt by Punk into a Hell's Gate, and the nearfalls that had the crowd erupting. If this turns out to be Punk's final WrestleMania match, not a bad one to finish with. ****1/4

WWE Title Match
The Rock vs. John Cena

Another hot match, although not as hot as Taker vs. Punk. This was a significant improvement over Rock's previous matches since his return. They played off of their previous match, with Rock delivering a mockery receipt. Later on, Cena faked an attempted People's Elbow. This became a finisher fest, which was fine for the story told. Ultimately, Rock being predictable and trying so hard to finish Cena off with the Rock Bottom cost him the most prestigious prize in the company.

Post-match, Cena allows Rock his time in the spotlight, in what could have possibly been a farewell for the Great One. If the Rock never wrestles another match again, this was one to be proud of as the finale. ***1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Thought Kasai lost half of his face last year on the drop toe hold into the gusset plates. 

here's one of my favorites:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Thought Kasai lost half of his face last year on the drop toe hold into the gusset plates.
> 
> here's one of my favorites:


Hayley, just so you know, I'm never, ever forgiving you getting me to Google "Jun Kasai gusset plate" and watching that minute long clip from CZW. I think I'm going to be sick, for real.  I had no idea what a gusset plate was, let alone that people used them in death matches.

I don't judge you guys for liking that Deathmatch stuff, if that's your cup of tea than so be it, but I'm wayyyy too squeamish to watch that stuff. I couldn't even handle watching Eddie bleed like a sieve at JD 04' the first time around. Matches like Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah are as far as I go, that's one of my all time favorite matches to watch though.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> Ugh, Punk/Rock RR. That shit was BAD. First few minutes were a nice little brawl, but the rest is so bad I can't forgive that small good portion of it. Terrible selling, awful pacing, it tried WAY too hard to be epic, woeful false finish, and... the ending.... geez, that gives me the creeps. Granted, not as bad as the Big Show debacle at Battleground, which was BY FAR the worst ending to a PPV Main Event in years and one of the worst ever, but this one is still terrible. Like Lost and Mass Effect 3 terrible. You never end something like Lost or Mass Effect 3 did. I have it at a straight up DUD and I don't regret it.
> 
> The rematch at EC was alright, but compared to the original, it was fucking Bret/Austin.


I'll have to rewatch them but I remember liking the Rumble match more than the EC match. Maybe I'm mixing them up, but I remember Rock being fucking gassed in the EC match within the first few minutes and it just slowed the match down incredibly.

I might re-watch them but I don't think I want to put myself through that again. :lmao Bad ending to the reign for Punk though.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> here's one of my favorites:


:trips5 Top 5 from 2009.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hayley, just so you know, I'm never, ever forgiving you getting me to Google "Jun Kasai gusset plate" and watching that minute long clip from CZW. I think I'm going to be sick, for real.  I had no idea what a gusset plate was, let alone that people used them in death matches.
> 
> I don't judge you guys for liking that Deathmatch stuff, if that's your cup of tea than so be it, but I'm wayyyy too squeamish to watch that stuff. I couldn't even handle watching Eddie bleed like a sieve at JD 04' the first time around. Matches like Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah are as far as I go, that's one of my all time favorite matches to watch though.


Dude, BJW is my favorite promotion ever. Their deathmatch formula is pretty damn awesome, although it can get repetitive, but everything is forgotten once the ring is filled with smashed lighttubes and wrestler's back look like a raw burger. 

Once you get into it, you'll realize they're not spot monkeys, their matches are actually very strategic, carefully paced and well-thought; all the deathmatch stuff, well that's just a tool, a medium.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hayley, just so you know, I'm never, ever forgiving you *getting me to Google "Jun Kasai gusset plate"* and watching that minute long clip from CZW. I think I'm going to be sick, for real.  I had no idea what a gusset plate was, let alone that people used them in death matches.
> 
> *I don't judge you guys for liking that Deathmatch stuff, if that's your cup of tea than so be it, but I'm wayyyy too squeamish to watch that stuff. I couldn't even handle watching Eddie bleed like a sieve at JD 04' the first time around. Matches like Foley/Edge/Lita vs Dreamer/Funk/Beulah are as far as I go, that's one of my all time favorite matches to watch though.*


God, just googled it. I agree with your ideas in the second paragraph. I don't see the need for another human to suffer that much pain for some fan, who most likely wouldn't dare step in the ring and do the same.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> :trips5 Top 5 from 2009.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





King Kai Guy said:


> God, just googled it. I agree with your ideas in the second paragraph. I don't see the need for another human to suffer that much pain for some fan, who most likely wouldn't dare step in the ring and do the same.



Oh I'd never say something like "they are just a bunch of masochistic spot monkeys". I know their is an art to doing a good death match the same as there is an art to a Flair/Steamboat 60 minute broadway. I just can't watch it because it makes me physically ill. I know the guys doing the matches know what they are doing (for the most part) and enjoy it, I just....can't. You know? It gives me this really uneasy, unpleasant feeling watching a guys back get sliced up with razor blades. I'm a huge horror movie fan and I can watch movies like Saw and not bat an eye, but when I know it's actually real, then it gets me.

KingKaiGuy: I don't even look at it that way. The dudes doing that Deathmatch stuff aren't just doing it for "the fans". They HAVE to enjoy doing it to put themselves through it. I'm sure they are paid well but not nearly enough to compensate for what they are doing to themselves. They enjoy it, the fans who watch it enjoy it, so like I said, more power to them. Just not something I can get into for the reasons I already stated.

Here is a conundrum: why can I watch Orton get throw bare backed onto thumbtacks in a match with Foley and think it's bad ass but I get squeamish seeing a Japnese guy get thrown onto a board with razor blades? What's REALLY the difference? I haven't a clue. All I know is I can watch Foley do his thing in a WWE ring and think it's the greatest thing ever but when I see a guy get drop toe hold onto a bunch of gusset plates I lose my lunch. There isn't THAT much difference, really.

Chismo/Rah/Hayley etc, you guys that are fans of that stuff, did you always like watching death matches or was it something you were gradually desensitized to?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

A deathmatch can be good the same way a regular match can be good. The match can be well put together, it just kind of happens that the guys in the match are more insane than other wrestlers. A good deathmatch at least is still that kind of wrestling where the props are secondary to how the wrestler uses them. And a lot of the best spots often don't even involve weapons. Some people are just going to not like deathmatches because of the over-the-top violence, and honestly that's totally understandable.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Eh I guess you're right. The Brocktagon threatening to insert the Cocktagon into a woman warrants a bloodshed.



LOL

#Cocktagon


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao At that stretcher match. And Yeah1993 actually considers Cena superior to Mark Henry and The Great Muta.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao At that stretcher match. And Yeah1993 actually considers Cena superior to Mark Henry and The Great Muta.


I do......are you referencing something?


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I've never liked death matches because they felt anarchic, or simply dangerous for the worker. In the WWE, I always had a feeling of "Well he'll be fine", but I can't saw that for the death match guys. I really hated that "genre" of wrestling after some Youtube comments claimed someone like Foley wasn't hardcore, but rather death matches are. I always drew a thin line between hardcore and crazy as fuck. Another thing would be copious amounts of blood can really bother me, depending on the situtation. Guerrero at JD: "AWESOME!" Gusset plates: "Mommy, I'm scared."

And Henry>>Cena btw


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> I do......are you referencing something?


You have got to see that joke of a main event on RAW tonight. And I'm still accusing you of being a false Mark Henry fan. How do I know you're not actually a fan of feeble pansies like Chuck Taylor and Jack Evans?


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

THE JOURNEY KEEPS GOING

Raw - April 8, 2013

This is simply one of the greatest Raw episodes EVER, such a shame a medical emergency kept me from attending it.

John Cena trolls the crowd with his shitty jokes. #heelturn
The Miz and Wade Barrett have a ***1/4 IC Title match, with Barrett winning it back to a raucous crowd that is happy because of his British heritage and he comes across as far more of a man than Miz.
The Shield interrupts Undertaker's promo, causing Team Hell No to come to the rescue.
Sheamus and Randy Orton have a dull, tedious, forgettable match, and the crowd shits all over it, doing waves and chanting for RVD, HBK, JBL, Michael Cole, Jerry Lawler, and Randy Savage. Big Show interferes to turn it into a no-contest after what felt like 15 hours instead of 15 minutes if it wasn't for the tremendous crowd. "Thank you Big Show!"
Alberto Del Rio and Jack Swagger have another match this is nothing special, with Swagger injuring the World Champion's ankle. Out comes Dolph Ziggler to successfully cash in his MITB contract to a huge pop. One of the best moments in Raw history.
In the main event, Ryback comes out to save Cena from a Mark Henry post-match mugging. Moments later, he betrays Cena to another huge pop from the crowd.

Raw - April 15, 2013: The Good Shit

3MB comes out to call out the Shield. They get Brock Lesnar instead, and he destroys them in EPIC fashion. Just a fucking ass-kicking. Paul Heyman then lays down the challenge to Triple H for a rubber match, this time in a steel cage at Extreme Rules. Only Paul Heyman could make the steel cage, which has been decreased in perceived value thanks to Hell in a Cell, War Games, and Elimination Chamber, mean so much in 2013. His promo was so engrossing that the crowd popped huge at the challenge.

IC Title Match
Cesaro vs. Kofi Kingston

Not much here, just a showcase of what they could do together. I wouldn't have booked the title change here, but whatever.

CM Punk comes out with Paul Heyman, devastated over his defeats to the Rock and Undertaker. He abruptly goes silent mid-promo and leaves.

SmackDown! - April 19, 2013

Jack Swagger vs. Alberto Del Rio

I'm shocked, but I was engaged into this match, and I wonder why the fuck these two don't show this kind of dedication to their craft this well. The story was Del Rio's injured left knee and Swagger's injured left elbow. They went to work on each other, showing incredibly submission work. The psychology and storytelling in this was just outstanding. The match also had very good drama, although the pace was a bit too steady to keep it from reaching true greatness. But the work they unleashed on each other was like some good shit from the ROH golden age. ***3/4

Raw - April 22, 2013

Hellacious Destruction vs. The Shield

Not quite the epic many touted this afterwards, but a very good trios match nonetheless. Once again, the Shield did a phenomenal job of cutting the ring in half on Kane and D-Bry. They frequently managed to find a way to get the numbers in their favor. Rollins was also top-notch in this one, taking a moment to talk straight shit to Taker. Taker's facial reactions to that were excellent, fuming in such a way that CM Punk couldn't even get out of him the month before. Rollins is going to be a star in this federation. 

Of course, with the babyfaces being an iconic bad-ass, a HOF bad-ass, and one of the greatest in-ring technicians EVER, they managed to get enough advantage to keep this from being a complete squash. With the clout that Taker has, I don't think it's coincidence that D-Bry's journey to singles stardom started shortly after this. ***1/2

Raw - April 29, 2013: The Good Shit

Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes

Another very good match from these two, as they have natural chemistry. The counters in this were awe-inspiring, and I loved the matwork they did on one another. A nice, solid finish too to get the crowd to have its climatic pop. ***3/4

Dolph Ziggler vs. Kofi Kingston

These two are also natural opponents, since they both have a video-game style to them. Nothing too special, but they once again showed why they've been booked against each other so many times. ***

John Cena & Team Hell No vs. The Shield

Another good trios match for the Shield, although nowhere near their best. Just good, solid work with sound stroytelling, psychology, and cutting the ring in half. ***

Main Event - May 1, 2013

US Title Match
Kofi Kingston vs. Cesaro

THIS is when I would've booked the title change. They got about 20 minutes, and Cesaro brought his fucking working boots in this one, showcasing what has made him one of the top grapplers of the 2010s decade so far. He went to work on Kofi, finally getting some damage on the champion's right knee when it got stuck in the ropes about halfway in the match. But Cesaro didn't make this great all by himself. Kofi put in enough hope spots and did a masterful job with his facial expressions to get babyface sympathy.

Cesaro was just tenacious in going after that right knee, locking in a half-crab multiple times, whereas the champion had to dig down deep to overcome the adversity. Once Kofi got his chance, he hit the Trouble in Paradise with that bad leg, much like athletes in other sports do - you give them just one small crack, and they'll run through that door to the narrowest of victories. Excellent gem of a match here. ****

Extreme Rules 2013: The Good Shit

Hardcore Match
Big Show vs. Randy Orton

Good brawl here, although would've been better with both men just pummeling it each other instead of occasionally moving through quicksand. Hot finish too with Orton going over in the STL. ***

WWE Title - Last Man Standing Match
John Cena vs. Ryback

A great brawl and power matchup, as both men pummeled the fuck out of each both with weapons and power moves. I liked that both men pulled out the powerbomb successfully, with Ryback throwing Cena down beautifully and with such force that it looked believably painful. Ryback had a few selling issues of course to keep this from reaching greatness (I actually don't mind the finish so that didn't keep this from the greatness), as I wasn't fully convinced he'd have an adrenaline rush for 1-2 minutes after being Death Valley Driver'd through a table. This was some really good stuff, and probably the best match Ryback will ever have. ***1/2

Cage Match
Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H

This had the potential to be a classic, but ended up being just very good. Lesnar attempting to knee HHH against the fence, only for the Cerebral Assassin to duck was fantastic, especially Lesnar's selling of the pain. HHH of course went to work, but the former UFC World Champion put up a great fight, too much beast and anger in him. This was some seriously engaging shit, a brutal affair that we don't get to see in cage matches that often anymore. So what kept this from being a classis? That the finishing stretch was a lowblow from Paul Heyman, sledgehammer to HHH's face, and an F5 victory for Lesnar. I'm all for selling, but that finishing stretch was about 2-3 minutes and felt like 2-3 hours. It killed the crowd, who gave zero reaction to the finish. ***1/2


----------



## dxbender (Jul 22, 2007)

Got through the "after the show" stuff WWE released. Funniest part was how at the end, despite the entire dvd featuring so many diff superstars, they basically summed up the entire dvd by mentioning Cena(and only cena) as the person who loves to have fun with the wwe fans and everything.

It's basically like "Here's a dvd featuring rock,austin,hogan,undertaker,mr.mcmahon,triple h and so many more...but in the end just remember that john cena likes to have fun with the wwe universe."


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Super Sonic said:


> SmackDown! - April 19, 2013
> 
> Jack Swagger vs. Alberto Del Rio
> 
> I'm shocked, but I was engaged into this match, and I wonder why the fuck these two don't show this kind of dedication to their craft this well. The story was Del Rio's injured left knee and Swagger's injured left elbow. They went to work on each other, showing incredibly submission work. The psychology and storytelling in this was just outstanding. The match also had very good drama, although the pace was a bit too steady to keep it from reaching true greatness. But the work they unleashed on each other was like some good shit from the ROH golden age. ***3/4


Big fan of that one. Top 10 match for both guys.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

THE SHIELD & DANIEL BRYAN SHOW~!

Raw - May 20, 2013
The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston

Excellent trios match as one, a genuine contender for the Shield's best match. While I don't remember everything about this match because there are so many featuring these guys I've watched in the last day or so, this was some truly outstanding shit. Once again, the ring gets cut in half by the Shield, a trait I'm sure Arn Anderson has taught all of them as a producer. There were also two or three hot tags, all of them getting great reactions. Fantastic action of course as expected. This was about the time that the Shield carried themselves with unquestionable confidence, just stealing the show and walking around like their own every spot they walked into. Also important is that this is where Daniel Bryan REALLY started to get over both on offense and when selling. ****

SmackDown! - May 24, 2013
The Shield vs. Sheamus, Randy Orton, & Kofi Kingston

More good shit here of course. Cut the ring in half. Adhere to tag legalities, with even the wrestlers remembering. Intelligently worked and done in exciting fashion to boot. ***3/4

Raw - May 27, 2013: The Good Shit

Tag Titles Match
Seth Rollins & Roman Regins vs. Team Hell No

Much better than the PPV title change match, since this had about twice or triple the length of time. Once again, the Shield look like unstoppable, strategic bad-asses, preying on the cracking chemistry that was showing in Team Hell No due to D-Bry's insecurities. Those insecurities though were causing D-Bry to bring out a fiery side that were allowing the audience to genuinely connect with his work. Loved this match. ***3/4

The Highlight Reel
Guest: Paul Heyman

A great segment in which Chris Jericho trolled Heyman into agreeing to have CM Punk come back at Payback in Chicago. Heyman was great at trying to avoid discussing his best friend, with a great potshot at Bret Hart (this episode was in Calgary) but Jericho would have none of it. Tremendous back-and-forth here from two of the best promo men ever.

Raw - June 3, 2013: The Good Shit

The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton

Not up to par with the usual greatness of the Shield, but this was still good and had a much different purpose in mind, which it accomplished incredibly well. The finish, which is what mattered most, came when the Shield had Orton and D-Bry collide, taking full advantage. D-Bry blamed himself to an irrational degree, whereas Orton said it was just an honest mistake. ***

Ryback vs. Daniel Bryan

This was booked when D-Bry, still upset over the trios match loss, ran into Ryback and challenged him to a match. Easily one of the best matches Ryback will ever have (shocking that's against Bryan Danielson, I know), this did a great job in showing off his power. But most importantly, it showed that D-Bry's technique, talent, and tenacity could go toe-to-toe with someone of great size and power. No matter what Ryback through, he couldn't put down D-Bry. The former World Champion also did a great job of taking away the base, going after the legs, bringing back memories of his classic series against Takeshi Morishima. The finish came when Ryback, who was frustrated while also mainly concerned with sending a message to John Cena, brought a table into the ring and powerbombed D-Bry through it. ***

Raw - June 10, 2013
Seth Rollins vs. Daniel Bryan

More good work between these two, picking up where they left off four years earlier in ROH. There were admittedly moments in which the crowd was noticeably quiet, mainly during the submission work. I believe that if D-Bry plans to keep using the surfboard as a signature move, he needs to do the "Woah" like he did on the indies. It'll cause the crowd to become more engaged, which is why they're always so happy when he throws strikes now, so that they can yell "YES~!"

Rollins was great once again at being a troll, slapping the head of D-Bry when he locked the surfboard on first. He put forth such a competitive effort that it didn't decrease his stock whatsoever when he fell victim to the small package. I expect these two to feud over the WWE Title in the future. ***1/2

SmackDown! - June 14, 2013
The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton

This wasn't quite up to par with the very best of the Shield's trios matches, but it was still good stuff with a magical moment in WWE history. In this one, the Shield never got a true advantage, failing to catch their groove as they were accustomed to doing. D-Bry's intensity set the groundwork, not allowing himself to turn into Ricky Morton.

The finish came when Reigns attempted a spear but Kane moved out of the way, having the Tag Champion ram through a barricade. Kane then chokeslammed Dean Ambrose on top of Reigns, taking both out of the equation. That left Orton to deliver an Ace Crusher to Rollins, who then found himself locked in the LeBell Lock, and almost immediately tapped out from the back-to-back punishment. This got a fantastic reaction from the crowd, and Lilian Garcia acknowledging this as the Shield's first trios loss when announcing the winners made this even more meaningful. It was time for the Shield to show vulnerability as a stable, especially with Kane getting a US Title shot while Orton & D-Bry would be challenging for the Tag Titles against the trio that weekend. ***1/2

Payback 2013: The Good Shit

Sheamus vs. Damien Sandow

Fun opener here to showcase Sandow, not sure why he's fallen off. The Chicago crowd cheered for his every offense on Sheamus, who was hated by them. I'll take a guess and say that the Windy City doesn't have high tolerance for Diet Cena. Just a fun little match here all around. ***

IC Title Match
Wade Barrett vs. The Miz vs. Curtis Axel

Oh this was fun, just constant action throughout. Much of the story was Paul Heyman telling Axel just to be an opportunist, but Barrett and Miz caught on to this quickly. There was a fantastic pop when Axel got a nearfall via fisherman's suplex. Hot crowd, good pacing, and a great finish. Miz had Barrett in the figure four, and the IC Champ fell down. Axel then swooped in and covered him for the three count to a great reaction. Great sentimental moment with this show being on Father's Day to pay tribute to his father. ***1/2

Divas Title Match
Kaitlyn vs. AJ Lee

This was great storytelling, with Kaitlyn furious over AJ's manipulation of her with a fake secret admirer. The champ would use her strength and power, but AJ's intelligence, speed, and technique was too much. The key moment was with the ref fixing the apron, AJ smacked Kaitlyn with her shorts belt, and also Kaitlyn having AJ beat buy not going for the finish, caring more about vengeance than retaining the title. That came back to bite her when AJ clamped down with the Widow's Peak. Another great pop for this title change. ***1/2

World Title Match
Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio

More great storytelling here, and a somewhat karmic one to boot. Ziggler came into this just cleared from a concussion, and Del Rio went after his head over and over and over again. The crowd, already rooting for Ziggler, completely turned on Del Rio, but he didn't give a shit about their reaction or playing borderline dirty. Ziggler was great with his occasional hope spots, finally using his home run style moves at the appropriate times. Del Rio won and then came back out afterwards to say how happy he was to be the champion of the people just to troll the crowd. Perhaps this was karma for Ziggler, not because of his MITB cash-in, but because his girlfriend mentally fucked with the head of her opponent, and now he physically got his head fucked with by his opponent. ***1/2

Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk

The hottest match of the night for obvious reasons, and this probably should've just been the main event due to the heat. It started off with a feeling out process due to Punk being gone for a couple months, but his skill came through early when he worked on Jericho's left arm and shoulder. The pace just keep gradually picking up as the match progressed, much like a puro main event. The selling was top-notch too, with Punk selling the back after Jericho had gone to work on it.

Punk managed to use his technique and experience to get out of the Boston Crab, then using Jericho's body to lift himself up and lock on the Anaconda Vise, even getting enough leverage to lock it on completely, planting Jericho's back to the mat, and paying off the earlier work on Jericho's left arm and shoulder. Jericho of course got to the ropes, and after some more work, Punk got the Go 2 Sleep on Jericho which was a great nearfall. The action kept going for several more minutes, leading to a phenomenal finish when Punk gave Jericho a Go 2 Sleep, Jericho fell back and bounced off the turnbuckel, and Punk gave him one more Go 2 Sleep for good measure, earning the bragging rights of the Best in the World moniker. ****

Tag Titles Match
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Randy Orton & Daniel Bryan

This didn't work as a match by itself, with Orton and D-Bry intentionally lacking chemistry as the story of the match. This should've just been after Dean Ambrose vs. Kane, as this match also suffered from following the excellent Jericho vs. Punk match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hayley, just so you know, I'm never, ever forgiving you getting me to Google "Jun Kasai gusset plate" and watching that minute long clip from CZW. I think I'm going to be sick, for real.  I had no idea what a gusset plate was, let alone that people used them in death matches.


I didn't get "sick" in any regards, but when that was first seen last year, oh yeah, the reaction was immense. Still a top level insane moment seen in a deathmatch on my end. Face first into those sharp plates. When you stop and think of how it could have been even worse, yep, that's no hyperbole.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Chismo/Rah/Hayley etc, you guys that are fans of that stuff, did you always like watching death matches or was it something you were gradually desensitized to?


There was always an interest. You can say it originally bloomed via whatever hardcore stuff was seen in ECW or those Mick Foley "in Japan" clips w/the barbed wire exploding etc. Then I started looking for more wrestling out there, to know that CZW was around & actually finding videos of various Japanese promotions _(including Big Japan, which was a good chunk of it, tbf)_ to see more of it. There was never any hesitation of it being too graphic. I just had to see more of the insane stuff. Sick Nick Mondo clips were inspiring to see people bleed out from loads of broken glass handing off their back. I still have the same reactions for it as I did then; a lot of fun. 99% of the time if I see a match w/a bunch of light tubes set up, my giddiness level at the start reaches its near maximum. If only I had a way of linking up the TOD 2013 Finals: Havoc vs Vortekz 1000 LIGHT TUBES DEATHMATCH. And it's terrific.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

So I decided to watch some of last week's SmackDown.

Reigns continues to look like a mediocre singles worker. His match with Barrett was meh and I can't say I have high hopes for his matches with Rollins and Hunter when they happen. I like the guy and he's good in tag matches but when he's on his own he reminds me of what Batista was like when he was getting his push in '05. 

Bo Dallas makes me smile. Is that bad to say? I don't care, I'm enjoying the gimmick. Bo/Truth was fun. 

Didn't see anybody talk about Cesaro/Sheamus in here. Wasn't on the same level as Payback but it was good for sure. They should do a gimmick match between the two at some point (maybe at Battleground?). 2/3 falls or even just no DQ would bring some freshness to the match-up and probably add to the quality too. They've wrestled like 5 or 6 times now and it still feels like they've barely scratched the surface as far as having their best match together. 

Summer Rae and Layla > Adam Rose and Fandango. Totally fine with a two minute catfight between them on every show. 

Gonna check out Ambrose/Wyatt later.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Chismo/Rah/Hayley etc, you guys that are fans of that stuff, did you always like watching death matches or was it something you were gradually desensitized to?


I remember many, many years ago I found that Kawasaki Dream tournament on Youtube and watched it. I winced and could barely watch some of it. I pretty much knew, at that stage, that wrestling was real yet I thought some deathmatches were actual matches fought to the death in Japan. That's not much of a stretch, considering half the matches I had plugged in, at that point. Now I'm largely desensitized and am that weirdo who pushes Necro Butcher as a "great of our time" worker.




funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao At that stretcher match. And Yeah1993 actually considers Cena superior to Mark Henry and The Great Muta.


Cena > Henry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Muta


Henry and Cena are totally different packages, though, so I can see argument for either. If you're a big-match guy, Cena should be a good worker for you. If you like little additions and mannerisms in your matches, then Henry is a terrific worker. I prefer Henry, but do see Cena as the better worker.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Bald old Muto > > > > > > > > > > Henry > > > > Cena. 

Oh, and Wyatt/Ambrose was very good. I'm digging Ambrose as a whacky face.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Cena is just so fucking lazy these days that I can't bare to watch his shit anymore. Glimpsed through the stretcher match and ia has the same problems as always. Cena just phoning in the spots. No logic to anything he does. No prolonged selling. Nothing even remotely passable for a top star.

GARBAGE

Now if you're talking 2007 Cena, then yeah, GOAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2004*

May jebus have mercy on my soul, because this undercard probably won't.


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Luther Reigns*

Eddie Guerrero. One of the all time greats. One of the most popular superstars at the time. Was WWE Champion at WM XX earlier in the year. Now he's opening a PPV against Luther fucking Reigns. How does that even happen?

:lmao Luther gets off to a good start by powering Eddie down with a clothesline, so Eddie backs himself into a corner to sucker Luther in... then POKES HIM IN THE EYE. I miss Eddie . Goku got to come back for one day while dead to compete in a tournament, why can't Eddie come back for a show?

Standard power wrestler stuff from Luther; press slam, bear hug etc. Nothing worth going into detail about lol. Highlight is Eddie selling it and using his lie, cheat and steal way off life to try and make comebacks.

So according to Michael Cole, Luther Reigns in the past has been shot, stabbed and had his throat slit. At least I know I'm not alone in not liking the guy 8*D.

:mark: Eddie escaping Reigns when he has him in a reverse DDT position is awesome. Knees to the face then uses the ropes to push himself up and over and lands a reverse DDT of his own! Now things are picking up as Eddie makes his comeback! Love how Eddie, despite being babyface, just looks like a cocky DICK after he hits a few moves lol. The fans eat it up and so do I.

Oh man oh man oh man Eddie is the greatest. He's making his comeback and looking great... then Luther just powers him into the air and smashes him to the mat. Eddie rolls out to figure out what to do next... and happens to notice a security guard! He steals the security guard's baton, sticks it in his boot and yeah, you can figure out what goes down after that . Eddie <3.

Eddie wins. Duh.

Match isn't awful, so that's something! Luther wasn't bad, he was just... basic as shit . But give Eddie something basic and he turns it into something good, so I'm happy with how this went. Fun stuff, but such a waste of Eddie's talent.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Dawn Marie walks in on Miss Jackie topless. FAP FAP FAP. Jackie just stands there covering her tits lol.


*Spike Dudley Vs Nunzio - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

God I love the FBI theme. Huh, Nunzio was trained by Billy Robinson? I did not know this. Pretty cool though.

:lmao Spike couldn't even slam NUNZIO without falling back.

Opening few minutes are ALL Nunzio, with the champ unable to get anything in whatsoever. Nunzio looks pretty great btw. His offence looks snug and solid (kinda funny I'm noticing something like that after finding out who trained him  ), and he is real smooth at the counters and shit too. Almost makes me wanna check more Nunzio stuff out. Almost.

Sweeeeeet counter by Nunzio into a cradle for a very close near fall, which is similar to how he beat Spike on SD to earn a title shot here.

Unfortunately Spike on offence is DULL AS FUCK as he keeps going for the same damn hold; a full nelson while Nunzio is on the mat.

Thankfully though Nunzio is on top of his game and seems to control a great deal of this match, countering the champ at every turn and hitting some sweet offence.

The Dudley Boys on the outside are what give the advantage finally to Spike allowing him to win.

This was fun. Nunzio going for quick counters into pins to try and get the win just like he did on SD was cool.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Paul London Vs Billy Kidman*

Remember when Kidman injured Chavo Jr with a botched SSP? Ahhh, fun times .

Some nice HATE~! from London early on. Thanks to Kidman they lost the tag belts, and then Kidman smacked him in the back with a chair too. So he has every right to be fucked off. In the wrestling world, anyway lol .

Man, London doesn't give a shit. He's launching himself all over to hurt Kidman. That springboard moonsault from the second rope INSIDE the ring OVER THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR was fucking SICK. I mean wow. One mistake and he could have landed on the back of his head on the apron or something.

RAKE TO THE EYES~! And then poor London gets thrown ribs first into the ring post and Kidman is controlling this one!

Nice job by Kidman WORKING a hold, stretching London after he went ribs first into that ring post, then punching the ribs for added punishment.

Great focused offence by Kidman, and London takes some great bumps and sells everything pretty well too.

Love how London keeps getting out of these holds by KNEEING KIDMAN IN THE FACE. Keeps working so why not? 

Damn, that was one STIFF ELBOW shot to Kidman's face. That looked better than any Bull Hammer from Barrett.

London keeps trying to make a comeback, but his injured ribs prevent him from getting on any kind of roll, and Kidman takes full advantage of it every time. Pretty smart work throughout this match, and some great action too!

Kidman goes to the ropes for a SSP!!! But like the last few weeks since the Chavo incident, he hesitates and looks to leave! But Teddy Long told him if he leaves the match he's fired, so he has to come back anyway.

London goes for the SSP! Kidman drives the knees into London's ribs, and then lands a SSP of his own for the win! Kidman overcame his demons! Yey!!! Wait... Kidman's the heel? Yey anyway I guess? 

Great match! Very impressed . LONDON IS SPITTING UP BLOOD!!! The fans seem happy about it :lmao. SSP TO LONDON WHILE HE'S STRAPPED ON A BOARD~!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


JBL interview. He talks about how he's always guaranteed victory... but tonight the words just can't come out. EPIC FORESHADOWING? No. I mean... SPOILER~!


*Kenzo Suzuki & Renee Dupree Vs RVD & Rey Mysterio - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

BLUCE SPLINGSTEEN~! :lmao

BOOOORRRN IN TEH YOU ESS AYYE :lmao

I almost wanna watch the match after that awesomeness from Kenzo. Was better than the real Springsteen that's for sure 8*D.

Nah, I can't watch it. I can't watch a match with RVD, Kenzo and Dupree. Urgh.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle*

Man, remember that awesome return from Big Show when he cleared the entire locker-room during that lumberjack match? Guy looked like a legit monster.

:lmao oh man the build up for this match. ANGLE SHOOTS BIG SHOW WITH A TRANQUILISER GUN :lmao. Then shaves his head :lmao.

Teddy Long making more FIRED~! threats. Anyone interferes in this match and they are gone!

Big Show is gonna break Angle's ASS IN HALF. I guess it's one of THOSE kind of PPV's...

Show pushes and throws Angle around for a few minutes, then Angle gets himself counted out!

TEDDY LONG~! He's throwing his weight around AGAIN lol, and tells Angle the match is gonna restart, and if Angle doesn't have a proper match he's fired. TEDDY HATES THE WHITE MAN.

:lmao Angle trips over the steps and nearly gets counted out and fired.










Match gets ***** for that alone :lmao.

Oh man, great camera angle for Angle getting decked in the face holding a chair:










Show decides this match is over and goes for a chokeslam, but Angle rolls through into an Ankle Lock!!!

REF BUMP~! ANGLE CHEATS AND USES A CHAIR~!

Man, Angle really goes to fucking town on Show's ankle. Love the spot where he HANGS on the ankle of Show while Show is on the apron. Looks brutal as fuck.

All that ankle work and... Show stands up and starts throwing Angle around, runs, and even hits a big boot. All the while completely NO SELLING the ankle work. Wow, no selling in an Angle match and it's NOT Kurt's fault?

:lmao Angle tries to shoot Big Show again.

Oh hey Show has decided to limp a little. Nice of him.

CHOKESLAM FROM THE ROPES~! Show wins.

Fun enough match, just a shame Show decides to no sell the ankle work during most of his comeback.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Booker T Vs John Cena - Best of 5 Series United States Championship - Match 5*

Ha.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Dudley Boys & Dawn Marie Vs Charlie Hass, Rico & Miss Jackie*

So Charlie and Jackie are engaged. But Dawn Marie claims she's having an affair with Dawn. And somehow the Dudley's are involved making it a 6 man tag because STUFF.

FAP FAP FAP Dawn and Jackie get into it. Lol.

Bubba tags in and wants a kiss from Jackie. He closes his eyes and...










:lmao.

Bubba walks out of the match :lmao.

He eventually comes back and crotches Rico as revenge .

Bubba gets the tag and mauls Rico for kissing him, then Charlie gets the hot tag and cleans house for a little while, then it's chaos as we go into the finish.

:lmao Bubba sets Rico up for the headbutt to the goin, but he seems to WANT it, and Devon is terrified :lmao.

In the end Rico lands a moonsault for the win.

FUN.

*Rating: **1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*JBL Vs The Undertaker - WWE Championship Last Ride Match*

:mark:.

JBL bringing back some old members of the Ministry of Darkness was awesome. And then Undertaker crushed them a week later :lmao.

Match starts with both guys clubbing each other in the face :mark:. ***** already .

JBL tries. He really does. But he just can't do a damn thing to 'Taker in the early going. Punches to the face, boots to the face, elbow drops, apron leg drop, and an irish whip into the steel steps are all things that Undertaker does to JBL without a care in the world .

STEEL STEPS TO THE FACE~! Undertaker wasted too much time setting up the announce table for a spot and ends up tasting some cold hard steel. Oh fuck, that second shot with the steps is fucking incredible.

Are there any Texan wrestlers who are BAD at punching?

TRIANGLE CHOKE~! JBL taps but it doesn't matter. And I'm just now realising there is a referee. Why? Is he the only person who can call for the bell when the loser gets driven away? He doesn't need to be there lol. In fact in the video package for the match, JBL claims there won't be a referee. Oh well.

:lmao at Undertaker threatening one of the Spanish announcers with a monitor because he's just sat at the table still when Undertaker clearly wants to put JBL through it .

That back body drops off the steps gets me every time. Looks brutal and has to be done perfectly because they don't have the momentum of someone running the ropes to properly execute the move, so JBL could easily end up smashing the back of his head on the steps if it went wrong.

TOMEBSTONE ON THE STEEL STEPS~! Awesome. Tazz screaming at Undertaker not to do it because he'll kill JBL is awesome too.

JBL is bleeding, so Undertaker targets the cut :mark:.

CHAIR SHOT TO UNDERTAKER~! Total desperation move from the champ.

CHOKESLAM FROM ONE ANNOUNCE TABLE THROUGH THE OTHER~!

The Dead Man picks up JBL and carries him up to the hearse! JBL is about to take his Last Ride!

HEIDENREICH~! He was in the back of the hearse all along! Chloroform~! Undertaker is out! The hearse starts to drive away... but Undertaker sits up and goes back after Heidenreich!!!

CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

JBL survives and retains his championship!!!

Heyman turns out to be the driver of the hearse, and sets it up so Heidenreich can drive a truck right into it with Undertaker still in the back!!! Crazy!

Awesome, awesome match. A brutal, vicious, bloody brawl between two awesome brawlers. Love it.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11.5*​


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I've never checked that JBL/Taker match, fuck.



Femto said:


> Now if you're talking 2007 Cena, then yeah, GOAT.


Yes, credit where credit is due, that Umaga match is TIMELESS.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

JOURNEY TOWARDS THAT $$$ STOP

Raw - June 17, 2013: The Good Shit

CM PUnk tells Paul Heyman that they'll always be friends, but no longer doing business together and needs his personal space. It appears that Punk did some soul-searching while gone, as his attitude has improved tremendously to offset his scalp and facial hair style decreasing.

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

This was destined to be good, but D-Bry's concussion and residual upper body damage prevented that, causing the match to get thrown out. Worth noting that Orton is all-class in this one. Later in the show, D-Bry tells Kane that he is now aspiring singles star and needs the WWE Championship to validate himself as a legitimate star.

John Cena's Championship Proclamation/Mark Henry's Major Announcement

This is simply one of the greatest segments in Raw history. The first several minutes laid out the scenario perfectly. Cena says that he will be ready at any moment for his next challenger, especially with Money in the Bank coming up. He will no longer be taken by surprise going forward.

Then Henry comes out, having left tweets earlier in the day that hinted at retirement. He left his boots at the entrance ramp, and walked down that aisle with a tremendous salmon jacket. He told Cena that he wasn't there to attack, to keep his guard down, and wanted the WWE Champion to stay for his major announcement. Henry then gave a tremendous speech, tears coming out of his eyes, the crowd completely hooked with chants such as "Thank you Henry!" and "One More Match!" He also put over Cena as a fantastic WWE Champion, and said his only regret was never winning that title. He then directly said he would retiring from the active roster, and that he was coming home to his family after all these years. Cena came back in the ring to give Henrya hug...

Only for the World's Strongest Man to give him the falling powerslam to one of the biggest pops of the 21st Century!!! Henry then makes it very clear he ain't retiring and that he's coming for Cena's title. Why can't other wrestlers cut promos as convincing as The Rock, CM Punk, Mark Henry, and Paul Heyman? This was captivating from start to finish with a fantastic swerve that made 100% sense.

As the show comes to a close, I get to the end of the Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk match. Del Rio walks away from the ring and gets ambushed by Dolph Ziggler, continuing their feud while allowing Punk to get a countout victory. Before he can celebrate, out comes Brock Lesnar, causing Punk to have his guard up, not knowing what the fuck was coming up. Lesnar grabs a mic and walks into the ring to say something to Punk's face, but then very suddenly drops Punk with an F5!!! Tremendous closing segment.

SmackDown! - June 21, 2013: The Good Shit

Renee Young interviews Paul Heyman to ask about the CM Punk and Brock Lesnar situation, but he completely dodges the question by bullying her about her personal life and bragging about Curtis Axel.

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

Good match here, with solid pacing and fun action, but not quite the epic yet that I knew they had in them. D-Bry is unhappy to win by countout, demanding the match be restarted, but the ref refuses. ***

Raw - June 24, 2013: The Good Shit

The Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan match gets thrown out when they are both counted out. D-Bry comes to Vickie Guerrero & Brad Maddox, demanding a rematch TONIGHT. Afterwards, Vince McMahon berries D-Bry for the first time on screen.

Alberto Del Rio vs. Chris Jericho

Good stuff here, with fun pacing to engage the crowd and limb work paying off. With both of them having lucha backgrounds, it seemed like these two could have a classic in them should they ever have a monthly supercard match in the future. Good counters too. ***1/4

CM Punk and Paul Heyman air their dirty laundry

Another tremendous segment involving these two, going over their history dating back to 2005. Punk says he's coming for Brock Lesnar after what happened last week, simply stating that he's better than the former UFC World Heavyweight Champion. Heyman swears on his children he didn't provide orders to Lesnar last week to attack Punk, outwardly explaining why it wouldn't make sense for him to do that to their friendship. He tells Punk that by saying Lesnar needed help, he picked a fight with Lesnar. Punk, clouded by their history and friendship, totally buys into Heyman's bullshit. Great stuff.

Hardcore Match
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

PPV quality match here, complete with both men taking stupid bumps, showing off their love for the business and entertaining the fans. This got pretty vicious at times, taking backdrops on the steel steps, multiple kendo stick shots, and going through tables. This had a particularly awesome finish. Orton used the kendo sticks to force D-Bry to break the LeBell Lock. Moments later, D-Bry locked it on again, but when Orton tried the same strategy, D-Bry grabbed the sticks and used them to pull back on Orton's neck, forcing a submission victory. Put this in front of a more vocal crowd than Charleston and this could've been a great match bordering on MOTYC. Orton congratulates D-Bry on the huge victory aftewards, shaking hands. ***3/4

SmackDown! - June 28, 2013
Hardcore Match
Sheamus vs. Damien Sandow

Another fun little match between these two, good pacing and elevating Sandow's stock in defeat. He really took it to Sheamus in this one, but the Celtic Warrior had too much experience in this type of environment to be taken down. ***

SmackDown! - July 5, 2013
Christian vs. Randy Orton

These two picked up where they left off after their 2011 feud, once again showing their natural chemistry that they've had since they first wrestled each other in 2005. Christian did a masterful job of avoiding the Ace Crusher, showing off his veteran experience. However, Orton is so crafty that he managed to hit one in sudden fashion for the victory. ***1/4

Raw - July 8, 2013: The Good Shit

Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan

Yet another good match for the summer of 2013. In this one, Sheamus tried using his size and strength to outmatch the red-hot D-Bry and his technical superiority. However, it did appear that Sheamus was losing his balance at times, which is a very bad situation to be in against D-Bry. The finish is great with Sheamus locking on the Texas Cloverleaft, but D-Bry using his technique to get out of it and win via small package. Sheamus shows respect and they shake hands. ***1/4

John Cena and Mark Henry verbal confrontation

Henry uses this segment to say why he threw everything away to make sure he'd get a WWE Title shot. That certainly does put the championship over. Cena is still disgusted by Henry's lack of integrity, which I don't see as a burial of the belt. Many athletes have chosen to never cross a certain line that may have been prevented them from winning Super Bowls, World Series, and other championships. Cena says that Henry has put himself in a position in which he must now win because of the lack of integrity. Henry retorts by saying that his lack of integrity makes him more dangerous than Cena. They almost come to blows, but Henry is blowing mind games and about to leave, only to jump Cena suddenly and get the last laugh in this great segment.

Also of note after the Kane vs. Christian match is the debut of the Wyatt Family, consisting of their leader Bray Wyatt (the former Husky Harris), Luke Harper (known on the independents as Brodie Lee), and Erick Rowan. They decimate Kane. This lived up to all their hype videos over the previous months or so, and come across as very different styles of characters from the rest of the roster. Kane would be pulled from the WWE Title Shot MITB Ladder Match due to this attack.

SmackDown! - July 12, 2013
Christian vs. Daniel Bryan

Outstanding PPV quality match here. Christian would use his veteran experience to gain occasional advantages, but just like Orton and Sheamus before him, couldn't overcome the red-hot and technically superior D-Bry. Christian spent the majority of the match with a wounded left arm, which of course paid off in the finish when he tapped out to the LeBell Lock. ***3/4

Money in the Bank 2013: The Good Shit

Tag Titles Match
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. The Usos

Very good stuff here, with the Shield yet again cutting the ring in half on Jey. Before they got the heat though, the Usos did a good job of trying to disrupt the champions' rhythm when the match started. But the Shield are just too fucking good for that to happen for very long. Jimmy was a house of fire when he got the hot tag (who's the fucking moron that had it happen during the pre-show commercial break?) and did a great job of playing off of a hot crowd. But to nobody's surprise, despite some trios losses, the Shield still got the job done when it mattered most. ***1/2

World Title Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Dean Ambrose vs. Fandango vs. Cesaro vs. Jack Swagger vs. Wade Barrett vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow

Holy shit this was quite the spotfest opener, and the hot Philly crowd certainly helped. What worked so well to me in this one is that there was never a dull moment - once some parties were down, others stepped in, similar to the Dragon Gate trios matches when they first came to the States. I also liked that in this match, there was a damn good reason why guys would be down for minutes at a time. The bumps they took were fucking hellacious. It only made sense both in reality and kayfabe for them to nurse themselves and regain their energy.

Some of most noteworthy spots that I remember include: Swagger yanking down a participant, and that participant getting a beautiful European Uppercut from Cesaro before hitting the mat. Cody grabbing Cesaro off of the ladder and giving him a musclebuster style drop on a ladder. The Usos and the Shield being outside the ring with numerous other participants as Cody pushed the ladder over and Ambrose fell out of the ring. Great finish too, with the crowd fulling behind Cody but the intellectually superior Sandow taking his friend out of the equation, being the smarmy opportunist and rewarded for a good little feud he had just had with Sheamus. With both the WWE and World Titles since being unified, I wonder if the MITB events going forward will be able to have the killer opening matches that we've been accustomed to. ****1/4

World Title Match
Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler

Crowd was hot once again, fully behind Ziggler. This lacked the simple story of the Payback match, but this had better pacing. Even when AJ Lee came down to ringside with her entrance music blaring, the crowd didn't die at all, still buying into the nearfalls. I can't stress enough just how believable the nearfalls were in this match. Perhaps the crowd was so supportive of Ziggler at this time that they were salivating at every chance he had to regain the title. Too bad AJ actually interfered, this could've been a great match bordering on MOTYC. ***1/2

WWE Title Match
John Cena vs. Mark Henry

Perhaps his best match, this was the Mark Henry Show, just dominating the majority of the match with size and power. That's something Cena doesn't get enough credit for from supposed smart fans: the HOFer has never had a problem with putting someone ever in matches and showcasing them. He doesn't have to do the job to get them over. Cena was also great in this one, failing on multiple occasions to lift the superheavyweight Henry, collapsing on those efforts. I must also mention again how INCREDIBLE this Philly crowd was, they got a great show and responded accordingly. Giving absolutely everything he had, Henry was still ultimately no match for the iconic Cena, who dug down deep and used his superior speed to lock on the STF for the tap out win. Very, very, very good match here. ***3/4

WWE Title Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Christian vs. Sheamus vs. CM Punk vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Daniel Bryan

Great main event here, although it couldn't live up to the opener, which is the usual for the WWE Title MITBs compared to the World Title MITBs. Crowd of course went apeshit for Punk and D-Bry, as well as the returning RVD. This one had more resting in it, perhaps intelligently since every participant had held the WWE and/or World Title in the past on multiple occasions. I liked early in the match when Punk and D-Bry actually did some brief technical wrestling, causing the original hometown of ECW and ROH to pop.

Don't get me wrong - I said this was a great ladder match, and for good reason. Some noteworthy spots include: RVD kicking the ladder and Sheamus falling awkwardly on its side with his left knee hitting (well no shit he needed time off after this). Orton giving Punk a T-Bone Suplex on a ladder (again, no fucking shit the guy has felt broken down and might never come back.) Sheamus was also pushed off the turnbuckle and crashed through a ladder that was platformed using the apron and commentary table. I also liked that D-Bry get his kicking spots in the match, allowing the crowd to get their "YES" pops in.

The most important part of the match was the finish, which while deflating, set up the third and final act for what was just an incredible summer for WWE. Curtis Axel came out and knocked out D-Bry, but he was then the victim of a Go 2 Sleep from Punk. Paul Heyman came out and gave a tongue-lashing to the unconscious Axel, saying he wants Punk to win. Punk climbed up with Heyman cheering for him, only for his best friend to come into the ring, grab ladder, and repeatedly smash Punk with it, causing the future HOFer's scalp to bleed. Punk's facial expressions were fucking FANTASTIC here, his soul completely crushed by the betrayal of his best friend, someone that he stood up for despite being warned for a year to avoid him. This allowed RVD to come in and climb the ladder, only for Orton to take him out of the equation. He checked around for anyone else, and brought the briefcase down for victory. ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thank you for reminding us of why 2013 ruled. The crazy part is that you missed out on A LOT of good matches in this review. And I mean A LOT. Lots of Sheamus Main Event goodies. Lots more Shield tags. Lots more everything. And NXT. How can you forget NXT?

No Mercy 2004 was around the time when I was getting tired of both RAW and Smackdown. Abeyance won the title on RAW, only to job to Triple H again later on, and Smackdown was misusing their reservoir of talent. They bounced back during the Road to WM XXI, but since then, the company had this bad habit of one show performing well while the other one was terrible. Or in the case of 2007, both being putrid.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Came across this compilation a while ago.

x135fxi_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-1-4_sport
x135gie_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-2-4_sport
x135gpx_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-3-4_sport
x135h40_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-4-4_sport


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RFWHC said:


> Came across this compilation a while ago.
> 
> x135fxi_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-1-4_sport
> x135gie_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-2-4_sport
> ...


:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Any chance you could post the full url of those videos mate plz.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Any chance you could post the full url of those videos mate plz.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135fxi_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-1-4_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gie_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-2-4_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gpx_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-3-4_sport

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135h40_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-4-4_sport


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RFWHC said:


> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135fxi_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-1-4_sport
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gie_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-2-4_sport
> 
> ...


Thankyou.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Anything worth checking out from RAW last night? I'm pretty sure I recorded the show


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Thought Kasai lost half of his face last year on the drop toe hold into the gusset plates.
> 
> here's one of my favorites:


I was in the second row for that if you're talking about a CZW show and when I saw the bump he took I thought he was going to lose an eye. It was scary as shit to see but also kind of awesome.

I'm a death match fan. I'm actually watching CZW's tournament of death and while I'm only a few matches in there was a pretty awesome match between Masada and Aero Boy that I would use as a good example of how death matches can be so much more than people hitting each other with weapons.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Looked up the card for ToD:



> Fans Bring the Dildos - First Round:
> Jaki Numazawa vs. Lucky 13


Well, okay.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

> WWE issued a new survey this week on potential future DVD match compilations on stars including Cesaro, Daniel Bryan and JBL. They also listed a Greatest Matches DVD for Rick Rude.
> The survey also asked for feedback on possible "Roast" DVD's on Ric Flair, John Cena, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan and Chris Jericho.
> 
> Other potential DVD titles included Volume 3 of the Very Best of WCW Nitro, Best of The United States Title, a documentary on The Ultimate Warrior and Volume 3 of the ECW Unreleased set.


:mark:


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Best of the US title interests me somewhat, but no doubt the match selection will be shitty. Can't say I'd be too excited for a Rude set, but I'm not all that familiar with his work.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Cena was definitely WOTY in 2007. He had some great matches in between afterward but there just wasn't the consistency. Cena always delivered in 2007, especially on PPV.

I was watching the stretcher match last night and before the match even started, I said to myself that Cena was going to play dead within the first minute. And i was right. One irish whip to the corner in the first 10 seconds and he's on the floor acting like got hit with a chair. It's beyond fucking annoying now with him.

Also, deathmatch wrestling is fucking awesome when done right.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Anything worth checking out from RAW last night? I'm pretty sure I recorded the show


I'll save you some time Smitty. 








You will understand later. 

Other than that:

*Pros:*
Ambrose and BNB had a good match featuring actual continuity 
Authority opened with a good promo
Ziggler and Rollins had an above average match, though while not egregious the move execution wasn't the cleanest and I didn't care for the uncalled for in relation to this contest feigned dramatics that halted the pacing. 
Heath Slater got absolutely smoked by a Rusev superkick that looked BRUTAL. 
Heath Slater's pants.
*
Cons:*
The main event between Cena and Kane (I know that already sounds atrocious considering they never have had chemistry) was as strong as this sounds arguably the worst seriously presented Raw main event in years.
Cena with abysmal selling even by HIS standards topped off with the classic Cena facial expressions. 
The worst AA maybe of all time. 
Roman entered the MITB match in a completely forced manner winning a meh battle royal.
The comedy was atrocious unless you have some sort of affinity for vomit. 

Comedy is subjective, so Kevin Hart's bit was however good you think.

As for Rude, Rude really had a nice, career year in 1992 and I felt was really hitting his stride from an in ring standpoint shortly before that damn injury. Even earlier Rude was really good at working within his character and had some underlooked great matches like the one vs Jake at SNME Oct. 29, 1988. Rude's a good worker, his ring work is just overshadowed by his physique and ability to generate heat and being a master of timing his cheap insults.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm pretty down on Cena as a worker right now as well. When he's motivated he's still capable of greatness, as he showed against Cesaro earlier this year, but that's the only top level performance he's produced in 2014. Wyatt was the driving force in the Mania match so don't point to that as a great Cena showing. He's had his fair share of bad matches in recent years but for whatever reason people seem to ignore that.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

STARDUST.

Fantastic stuff. I'm actually a big fan of the angle so far, much better than one turning on the other. I dig it, even though I'm not a supporter of breaking them up anyway.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena's best year was probably 2007, but I'd still put Taker above him that year. Cena generally to me is good in the ring, capable of having great/awesome matches if the circumstances dictate, but that's it. He definitely deserves some credit for giving Khali arguably his best match ever, as well as a very green Wade Barrett his best match by far to that point at HIAC 2010.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Rah said:


> Looked up the card for ToD:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, okay.


It wasn't good but it also wasn't as stupid and gross as it sounds. Turns out the fans didn't really want to go to a sex shop and buy dildos so there were not many dildos.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Is it me or did anyone else find that Cody really, really took to that Stardust gimmick? It had potential to me Wrestlecrap worthy (maybe to some people it was) but imo the way Cody moved he really put the character over. I think Stardust is going to be the next fad in wrestling.

Speaking of fads in wrestling, it seems that that's the whole damn problem now. WWE debuts a guy with a catchy theme song and a catchy chant, push them for a while, then they either put the US or IC title on them. It all goes downhill from there. Once a guy gets any one of those two titles, the booking team gets lazy. They stop giving them promos, proper feuds and all the other stuff that make a superstar. Take Paige for example. They've done nothing with her. It's like they think that because the person has a title or some catchy phrase they'll remain over and they don't seem to understand that you have to put it even more effort now that they're over to keep them over.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Exactly my thoughts, in a certain instance, Cena can have a great match when he is bothered enough to, numerous examples like against Bryan, HBK. It's just alot of the time he just reverts to type too often, doing the same old lame shit, sometimes doing his 'Five moves of doom' seemingly from the start, but now it's so much part of his character he feels he has to do it that way.

It's so annoying trying to watch most of his matches now, his moves, facials, no selling nonsense. 

It's too late to change now, that is him. Thing is, he'll be a great match soon enough given the right opponent.

I wouldn't really care if I never watch another Cena match tbh, last night's debacle just summed most of it up for me.

Buuuuuuuuttttttt, I fucking enjoyed Cena/Wyatt from Payback lol.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose/Wyatt from last week's SmackDown is definitely worth watching. I thought their wild in-ring styles would make for a fun pairing and I wasn't disappointed. Dean is officially my favorite wrestler to watch right now. Loved the way he sold the shoulder injury, and the little touches he throws in like flopping his way to the top turnbuckle because he was too beat up to climb up there normally add a lot to his matches. And then the injury came into play for the finish. Always a fan of that. The Rollins interference worked well too. Good stuff. (Y)


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

I could go on and on about Cena's performance last night. It was just so awful. Definitely a top 3 worst Cena performances. I actually said during Kane's entrance that Cena was gonna go down in the first 10 seconds with a hardbuckle. I should have actually did what I promised I was going to do had that happened- Turn the TV off. But I've noticed that it seems to be a trend with Cena now. He always goes down with the hardbuckle.....in the first 10 seconds. 

So far his only good matches have been with Cesaro, Rollins and Wyatt at Mania.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nobody brought up Cesaro vs Sheamus from Smackdown last week b/c it sucked. Reigns vs Barrett was fine, but that's all. I enjoy both but lets be honest, it wasn't Reigns fault only as to why it was just _fine_. Barrett was the guy doing the controlling portions. Then the fluff DQ finish hurt too. Ambrose vs Bray ruled. Real good stuff. Dean knows how to sell an injury like the best of 'em. Ambrose fever is what I'm having right now. He's wonderful as a babyface.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Nobody brought up Cesaro vs Sheamus from Smackdown last week b/c it sucked. Reigns vs Barrett was fine, but that's all. I enjoy both but lets be honest, it wasn't Reigns fault only as to why it was just _fine_. Barrett was the guy doing the controlling portions. Then the fluff DQ finish hurt too. Ambrose vs Bray ruled. Real good stuff. Dean knows how to sell an injury like the best of 'em. Ambrose fever is what I'm having right now. He's wonderful as a babyface.


I didn't think Cesaro/Sheamus sucked at all. Would've preferred another sprint like at Payback but the slower pace still worked fine with the physicality they dished out. And the finish actually had a story behind it this time. It was a weaker effort than Payback and their 2013 stuff but I still enjoyed it. Definitely liked it more than the match they had on Main Event before Payback.

Reigns didn't look good or bad in that match. He looked mediocre. Didn't do a whole lot wrong but didn't do much to add to the match either. I'm not using the match as a way to criticize Reigns but to me it was evidence of him having a lot of improving to do if he's going to be a good big match singles worker.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

They've clobbered each other in the past, so now most of their matches circa 2014 always feel like such an attempt to cater to that as opposed to just letting any of it come naturally. Contrived bore. It's such a downer.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What were Punk/Danielson matches like pre wwe. Is their a 'best one'?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

iirc it was their 2/3 Falls Match from FIP. Only ROH match I recall them having isn't good at all.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ambrose/Wyatt from Smackdown is one of my favourite Smackdown matches of the year. Ambrose is shining in his babyface role which is fucking awesome, and it continued last night on Raw where he looked like a million bucks...

AND CONTINUED TO SELL THE SHOULDER FROM SMACKDOWN! He might be the best seller in WWE right now, but I may be a bit biased because I'm a huge Ambrose/Moxley mark. I'm just so happy he's shining right now and wasn't brushed aside with The Shield break up. He looked like a million bucks last night and on Smackdown.

I wasn't too high with Cesaro/Sheamus on Smackdown. They've wrestled so many times recently that it just felt like the same, imo. Rollins/Ziggler on the other hand somehow kept their Raw match fresh despite wrestling three times in the past week. I liked the story in the finishing stretch with Ziggler knowing where the curb stomp was coming and the powerbomb in the corner and only ate it when he was clearly out of it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> iirc it was their 2/3 Falls Match from FIP. Only ROH match I recall them having isn't good at all.


Cheers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If I see Rollins vs Dolph have a third mediocre match in a row then c'mon. I'm already annoyed to know they have another match, but of course they do. That's how the booking goes atm. Thank science I got Barrett vs Ambrose & Wyatt vs Sheamus on tap. First match from the latter was super swell.

I hope the complaining for Cena vs Kane is exactly what should have been complained about for that god awful Cena vs Bray Last Man Standing match.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Was pretty taken aback by the Stardust thing. Like others (I assume), I was expecting one of them to turn, but I actually enjoyed that. Cody definitely embraced the Stardust character, as stupid as it is. Match result surprised me as well, but again, I enjoyed it.

I've found myself not very interested in Raw, since about Extreme Rules, and that disappoints me. As bad as some things have been for however long, I'm usually invested in the TV products/PPVs, but not lately. I only really watch for Trips and the Shield at this point. WWE has made me (us??) not care a bit about Cesaro, which is really too bad. They've split the Shield, which I'm not bothered by, as I'll always be interested in what all three of those guys are up to. 

I really, really hope that they're not working towards some kind of Cena/Authority angle. A match between Trips and Cena would be good, but we don't need it again, and really Cena doesn't need to be apart of this. Based on last night, Reigns is likely going to be interfered with at MITB and end up facing Rollins or Orton at Battleground en route to a match with Trips at Summerslam, which I would rather see Trips win. Reigns has already been very protected and pinned Trips at Payback. And for God's sake, have Trips win at some point. I've said this before, but he's just turning into Chris Jericho with power at this point, with as much as he keeps losing.

Couldn't be asked to care about the main event last night. They tried to hype it up as the first stretcher match on Raw in nearly ten years, and saying that Cena had never been in a stretcher match, and yada yada. Hate that stip, and the ending was :lmao


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

THE ROAD HITS SOME BAD ASS SCENERY

The Third and Final Act of the 2013 Summer Season

Raw - July 15, 2013: The Good Shit

New Raw GM Greg Maddox opens the show and out comes John Cena to a tremendous negative reaction from the Brooklyn crowd. Maddox says his first major decision to allow Cena to choose his opponent to defend the WWE Title against at SummerSlam. Out comes Randy Orton threatening to cash in his MITB contract at any moment, but then Fandango interrupts this segment. The Tri-State Area is happy to see him again, that's for sure.

Fandango vs. Randy Orton

This was a good match in front as I mentioned a great crowd. Good pace, nice action, tremendous atmosphere. One of Fandango's better matches without question. ***

World Title Match
Alberto Del Rio vs. Dolph Ziggler

Good Raw match from these two, not coming close to their PPV encounter. The match ended when AJ Lee prematurely rung the ring bell as vengeance for Ziggler dumping her before the match, and Del Rio gleefully taking advantage with a rollup. Poetry: it was in Brooklyn where their story together started, and it ended here. ***

CM Punk and Paul Heyman Air Their Dirty Laundry

Punk comes out limping from the ladder match the night before, physically and emotionally crushed from what Heyman revealed the night before with the ambush. He cuts one of the greatest babyface promos I've ever head, and Heyman comes out to retort after several minutes. Heyman cuts a genuinely Emmy-worthy promo, detailing his own twisted perception of why he betrayed Punk. He then coldly said that Punk had no family, no other friends, no true social life, just the support of the fans and the goal to regain the WWE Title. Punk then convincingly, without once coming across as cheesy or hokey, made it very clear he would eliminate every single obstacle until Heyman is left standing, and take him out for good.

Heyman said the time for talking was over. He mockingly got down, looked at his watch, and screamed its "Clobbering Time~!" He had the eyes of a killer when he looked back up at Punk and Brock Lesnar's music blasted through the speakers.

Punk stood in the ring, ready for Lesnar to have a go at him, but Heyman walked around the attacked his former best friend from behind, allowing the ridiculously quick Lesnar to get a first shot. Punk however fought back immediately. Lesnar fucking manhandled Punk in this bad-ass fight, but Punk just kept fighting back. He got thrown on the commentary table, only to get back up and leap at Lesnar, who caught him and slammed him back-first in the steel ring post, then put this to an end with an F5. Heyman screamed at the fallen Punk to stay out of his personal life and then thanked Lesnar, who stood tall and proud over what he had done.

This is simply one of the greatest segments in Raw history. No other segment in 2013 can touch this. Lesnar did his job perfectly of being an opportunistic bad-ass. Punk delivered the best babyface promo of his entire career, better than any of his promos on the Embassy or Generation Next. Heyman once again made me wonder why he was never cast on the Wire or Breaking Bad. He's so fucking engrossing and does the spineless sleazeball gimmick to perfection. What also made this work was Punk's appearance - he was dressed in thin MMA hoodie, t-shirt, tennis shoes, and gym shorts. Add in his basic, uncombed hair and he looked like a regular guy who who plays tennis and runs on the treadmill at the local gym. That made him a sympathetic character. Perhaps more importantly, it allowed Lesnar just with his presence to look like even more of a bad-ass, and then the two of them delivered a jaw-dropping brawl, one that felt real. THIS is why so many fans can't fathom that CM Punk is done with wrestling.

Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam

The crowd loved this, so I may be in the minority, but I wasn't impressed with this. Jericho is no longer at a point in his life in which he's dedicated enough to be able to carry someone to a PPV quality match that is stretched out to three segments, especially if that someone is in his early 40s also and recovering 24 hours after a **** ladder match. RVD botched multiple spots in this match and Jericho couldn't manage to disguise them. This was just a showcase for RVD and went on for way too fucking long. This was similar to the bad side of indy wrestling that I hate, only it happened to include vets with each over two decades in the game and it was on Raw.

John Cena's SummerSlam Decision

With every member of the roster on stage (except for Punk and Lesnar for obvious reasons), Cena comes out and says the fans will help him choose the opponent. He goes through a list of candidates, from Jericho to Orton to Del Rio to Ryback to Jinder Mahal. After several entertaining minutes in which the crowd is LOUDLY chanting "YES~!" and "DANIEL BRYAN~!," but D-Bry never once being acknowledge or even visible on stage, Cena says he has made his decision. He has chosen the best opponent possible, and that it is indeed Daniel Bryan. MASSIVE FUCKING POP FROM BROOKLYN as D-Bry appeared from hiding behind taller guys and jogged in Yes style to the ring, getting in Cena's face to do his Yes pose in excitement. Fantastic segment.

Raw - July 22, 2013: The Good Shit

Alberto Del Rio vs. Sheamus

Very good match, the best these two have had together to date. Sheamus had a visible bruise on his left leg from that awful landing he took in the MITB main event. Del Rio mercilessly went after that leg, and IIRC also worked on a damaged shoulder to set up the arm bar. Sheamus was great in using his power to create hope spots for himself, keeping the crowd engaged. Not a bad way for Sheamus to go out before he took time off for his injuries. ***3/4

CM Punk in-ring promo

Punk cuts another great babyface promo that gets interrupted by Heyman via satellite. Punk lays down the challenge to Brock Lesnar for SummerSlam, to which Heyman gladly accepts. Punk also pitched the moniker of the "The Best vs. The Beast," which Heyman laughed at, because his best friend, the Beast Incarnate, is the best. This wasn't gonna touch the Brooklyn segment, but that's like saying a match isn't great because it wasn't Danielson vs. KENTA.

Cesaro vs. Daniel Bryan

This was part of a gauntlet match laid down for D-Bry to prove himself worthy of headlining SummerSlam. This was great stuff, with Cesaro being showcased to get D-Bry over, but getting himself over in the process too. He was vicious in this one, bringing back memories of his incredible 2011 independent run. But D-Bry of course wasn't gonna go down, as he had too much momentum. Highlights including D-Bry being pushed up and getting hit with a European Uppercut as he was falling, and also taking a fuckton of European Uppercuts. The crowd wasn't used to this kind of action, but for the most part showed a tremendous appreciation for the effort put forth by both men. ****

Raw - July 29, 2013

Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian

Good match out of these two, with tremendous storytelling. Del Rio was vicious, and Christian was great with his selling to play off of that. Of course, Christian had a bad left shoulder which Del Rio worked on for his cross arm-breaker. He managed to get it locked on numerous times, but the veteran Christian kept finding ways to reach the ropes. The finish came when Christian once again showed his great veteran experience when he turns an attempted cross armbreaker into a modified cradle for the victory. ***1/2

SmackDown! – August 2, 2013: The Good Shit

Fandango vs. CM Punk

Another good showing from Fandango, with good action to showcase him. But Punk was destined to win this with his important match upcoming against Lesnar. ***

A BAD-ASS video is shown, with Brock Lesnar explaining in clear-cut fashion why he believes CM Punk has no chance against him, and also getting the point across as to why this is a personal grudge match for him that he’s been wanting for awhile. This was just as phenomenal as his video package the year before when feuding against John Cena.

World Title Shot Match
Christian vs. Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam

Good action here, constant action that never stopped. Never once got a dull, which is so critical to making these matches work. The obvious highlight was RVD going for the rolling thunder on Orton, but the Viper sprung up, caught him, and turned into a picture-perfect powerslam. Christian got the win here, which was smart booking after defeating Del Rio earlier in the week. ***1/4

Raw – August 5, 2013

I catch the end of the Curtis Axel vs. CM Punk match for the obvious reason. Punk went after Paul Heyman and out came Brock Lesnar to have another fantastic brawl. While not as great as their first brawl in Brooklyn, this was still outstanding chaotic shit with Lesnar once again getting the last laugh. Afterwards, Team Heyman gets promo time and Lesnar mocks Punk for proclaiming himself to be the best in the world. He then tells Heyman to “say something stupid.” Heyman lays down a challenge to Punk, for them to fight one-on-one next week on Raw.

SmackDown! – August 9, 2013: The Good Shit

Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam

Another good match here, fun action, kept the crowd engaged, nothing truly special, but wasn’t meant to be. Of course Orton got the win to keep him strong since he’s the more important MITB winner. ***

Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian

This is a non-title match, booked because Del Rio keeps being a douche-bag and undermining Vickie Guerrero when she gives him opportunities. This was some phenomenal shit, put in a position to be a PPV quality match and delivering. What made this great was the pacing, it kept building and building much like Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk a couple months earlier. Del Rio never got a true advantage, as while he looked like a million bucks in this, Christian wasn’t as devastatingly damaged as usual in his arm and shoulder region. But Del Rio was showing signs of learning from their match the week before, ducking Christian’s signature apron uppercut attempt.

They had great counters, great nearfalls, and the finish was storytelling magnificence, with Christian showing off his veteran craftiness by rolling up Del Rio for the three count yet again. Christian now has two victories over the World Champion going into their World Title Match. Imagine an NFL team being swept by a division opponent in the regular season and then they faced each other one more time in the postseason. That’s the story of these two. ****

Post-match, Del Rio tries to attack Christian, who counters and drops him with the Unprettier. Out comes Damien Sandow to cash in his MITB, but his newfound arch nemesis Cody Rhodes comes out to sabotage that cash-in. What a fucking dipshit that cost himself a great opportunity. Sandow wins the World Title and then Cody likely would’ve gotten a title shot since they were scheduled to face each other at SummerSlam. It probably would’ve been a threeway or fourway, but it’s still a chance to win the World Title and get it from Sandow as retribution for what happened at Money in the Bank.

Raw – August 12, 2013: The Good Shit

A nice video about Christian’s journey to regaining the World Title is shown. I wouldn’t be surprised if this video is used and added to once he does call it a career.

MizTV
Guests: John Cena and Daniel Bryan

Awesome segment here, with both men verbally taking Miz out of the equation when tries to stir the pot. D-Bry says he doesn’t care for Cena representing sports-entertainment. Cena then goes into great detail that he’s just as much of a wrestler as D-Bry, and it’s about connecting with the crowd. He then says that D-Bry should be proud of every accomplishment, but has to keep it into perspective, to not rest on his resume going into SummerSlam. D-Bry then questions Cena’s supposed lack of respect for him, because Cena listed off numerous HOFers. Cena then retorts with saying that respect isn’t given, it has to be earned, and it’sll be D-Bry’s time to earn it at SummerSlam.

Around this time I couldn’t help but notice leaned against the ropes in the background. This is definitely the best MizTV segment to date, even better than the one that was interrupted by Brock Lesnar several months prior to this. He had a look on his face that he knew he had the best seat in the house because this was some fucking amazing television.

Anyway, D-Bry mentions that during his time in Japan, he looked a cultural habit in which opponents would smack the hell out of each other at the beginning of a match as a sign of respect. He then says that Cena won’t get to experience that slap because he doesn’t respect him. At this point, Cena was ready to just throw down, but Triple H, announced as the guest ref, came down to calm everything down. The segment ends with Randy Orton appearing on the stage, reminding everyone that he is lying in wait to cash his MITB in whenever he sees fit. This segment worked on every level.

The show closes with Paul Heyman coming out for his fight against CM Punk, but shows his hand before Punk even comes out, admitting that it was a trap and Lesnar comes out. After several minutes of Heyman just brainlessly talking shit, he finally calls out Punk and they look towards the entrance. Punk shows up from the crowd, grabs a camera and smacks Lesnar with it. He didn’t get his hands on Heyman, but he finally got the upper hand on the former UFC World Heavyweight Champion. Great go-home segment. It’s always great to have one match with tremendous build, but it’s so rare for WWE to have TWO main event matches with builds that are firing on all cylinders.

SmackDown! – August 16, 2013

The only noteworthy thing is the very end. Triple H is the guest ref for Wade Barrett vs. Daniel Bryan, and Vince McMahon comes down to ringside to try to screw D-Bry. The story has been that Vince McMahon doesn’t see a main-event player in D-Bry, constantly burying him and trying to make him change to fit his preferred mold. Triple H has no problem with D-Bry, seeing all the positives in him just like the crowd does. When D-Bry wins and does his Yes pose towards Vince, HHH is doing it also and it just looks surreal.

Wow. The summer of 2013 is going to be remembered for years to come. The match quality as well as the storylines for Cena vs. D-Bry and Lesnar vs. Punk will stand the test of time, and I hope fans take the time to revisit this like I’ve done. I cannot wait to watch the good shit from SummerSlam 2013, which I consider to be the season finale of this amazing, amazing stretch. I recently revisited ROH in the summer of 2005, which was the acclaimed Summer of Punk. WWE's stretch throughout summer 2013 to me was overall even better. Highly encourage everyone to watch both periods to compare them.

SEASON FINALE~!

SummerSlam 2013: The Good Shit

World Title Match
Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian

These two men did a phenomenal job of building off of their previous two matches. In this one, Christian once again showed his craftiness, ducking an attempt by Del Rio to jump on him and use the impact to charge Christian as the future WWE HOFer was leaning on the second rope, leaving Del Rio to fall through the ropes and fall back-first on the floor. Del Rio also showed that he had learned from those earlier matches though, with my personal highlight being when Christian attempted to use the turnbuckles for a counter by jumping up, only for Del Rio to counter that with a lung blower. Crowd popped huge for that shit.

Del Rio also stepped up his submission game, finding one way after another to work on Christian's left arm and shoulder to set up for the cross armbreaker. Christian didn't quite sell this throughout the entire match, but it actually did pay off. Christian found himself trapped in Del Rio's finisher and it looked like he was going to escape it to recapture the championship. However, Del Rio rolled and kept it locked on, leaving Christian no choice but to tap out after a tremendous effort. Arguably the best performance of Del Rio's career, and he came out looking like a million bucks. He's such a great in-ring performer when he's left in the mid-card where he belongs. ***3/4

No DQ, No Countout Match
Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk

Lesnar is of course accompanied by Paul Heyman. He gets the early advantage on Punk with his size and strength, but gets cocky. The starving-for-vengeance Punk capitalizes on that and gets some strikes in, only for Lesnar to manage to quickly gain the advantage again, telling the former WWE and World Champion that this is Lesnar's territory and he owns him. However, Punk was so fueled with anger and determination that he kept bringing the fight to Lesnar, and it took a belly-to-belly suplex on the floor for Lesnar to get some breathing room.

Once they got back in the ring, they continued putting forth a jaw-dropping collision. Lesnar of course continued to rely on his strength, size, and power, but Punk would show his craftiness. Both men did a superb job of avoiding each other's finishers, and there was a reversal segment in the match that was truly something to behold. Punk had Lesnar lifted for the Go 2 Sleep, and as he dropped him, Lssnar landed on his feet and had the Kimura locked on. Punk found enough leverage to escape that and attempt to get an armbar, but Lesnar escaped that, only for Punk to get Lsenar locked in a triangle hold. I need to pause and describe this segment of the match so far is fucking brilliant. Lesnar is a former UFC World Heavyweight Champion and NCAA National Wrestling Champion, and had said going into this match that Punk's MMA training was subpar and amateur. This was a great way for Lesnar to have to eat those words.

Continuing with this outstanding reversal segment, Lesnar seemed to show serious considering into tapping out to the triangle choke. However, he once again resorted to his power and lifted Punk to deliver a powerbomb. in a moment of sheer storytelling genius, Punk kept the triangle locked in, absorbing the pain because of his focus and thirst for revenge. This got Lesnar to undoubtedly considering tapping again, but Lesnar overcame the struggle and gave Punk a running powerbomb that would make Jushin Liger proud. That finally broke the triangle, and Lesnar followed up with Eddie Guerrero's Three Amigos suplex chain. This entire reversal segment was not only executed perfectly, but enhanced the story of the match and was captivating from start to finish. But this match wasn't over quite yet.

Lesnar went to go get a chair, but had a struggle over it with Punk. Punk took full advantages of the rules and gave Lesnar a blatant lowblow that was timed perfectly and kept this excellent story going. After hitting Lesnar with the chair a couple times, Heyman finally stepped in to distract Punk (he had also done that earlier iin the match to get Lesnar out of a jam). Lesnar took advantage to attack Punk from behind, and I liked that Punk didn't duck to have the heels collide with each other. Lesnar attempted another F5, but Punk held on to Heyman's tie. Punk would escape the F5 and land another GTS on Lesnar, and was clearly going to win the match until Heyman jumped on him. Punk got his frustrations out on his former best friend, mentor, and manager, including locking on the Anaconda Vise. But Lesnar hit Punk with the chair, then dropped him with an F5 on it, bringing this work of art to a conclusion.

This is definitely better than the Royal Rumble and Cena vs. Punk matches. This was phenomenally paced, told a fantastic story, and was genuinely captivating. It lived up to its storyline and hype. This was just as great of a babyface performance from Punk as his matches at Joe vs. Punk II, Death Before Dishonor III, and Money in the Bank 2011. He had Lesnar beat and his performance was so fucking excellent that had he won this match, there's nobody with a working brain that wouldn't have bought it. It was convincing. He got a well-deserved standing ovation afterwards from the L.A. crowd. This would have been a great way to end Punk's most recent tenure as an on-screen character, and it's VERY obvious why he was running on fumes throughout his next several months on the active roster.

As for Lesnar, he earned his salary on this night. His selling was also amazing, allowing the much smaller Punk to look like a true star. But Lesnar didn't lose anything from this match at all, even with Heyman's help. He just came out looking like even more of a son of a bitch when this was over. It's too bad the crowd didn't give him a heated reaction, but perhaps the crowd was just in awe of what they just witnessed. To me, this is Lesnar's greatest match, better than his work with the Rock, Cena, Undertaker, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero. I'll be amazed if he can ever manage to top this. ****3/4

WWE Title Match
Guest Ref - Triple H
John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan

This was the Daniel Bryan Show, and major kudos to Cena for being so gracious yet again. Cena of course would use his size and strength to get advantages and avoid getting his ass handed to him on the mat. An early La Tatipia surfboard attempt by D-Bry was cancelled out when Cena lifted D-Bry out of position. I was actually openly criticizing D-Bry during this spot because he didn't use his fists on rear shoulders region of Cena to get the leverage he needed on an opponent of this caliber, strength, and size. I also recall early in the match he gave D-Bry a vertical suplex on the floor. Hey, if you're going to take stupid bumps, this is the match where you fucking do it.

D-Bry got to show the WWE fanbase what so many fans of independent wrestling had enjoyed throughout the 2000s decade. He was constantly finding new ways to get submissions locked on, including a beautiful and poetic STF on Cena. However, I must now mention that Cena came into this match with a torn tricep. It was severe enough that he had a mass on his left elbow because of it. Of course D-Bry took advantage of it, as well as Cena's respective shoulder that had collided with the ring post, getting the LeBell Lock clamped on at various points in the match, and Cena did a great job like Lesnar earlier in the night of making the audience wonder if he was really going to tap out. D-Bry also channeled Punk in that same match against Lesnar when he dropped Cena with a DDT reversal.

Other great moments in the match include Cena blocking an attempted Frankensteiner with a Styles Clash There was also a spot near the end when D-Bry did his signature running dropkicks in the corner, but on the third one, Cena ran forward to deliver a vicious clothesline much like Cesaro had done to D-Bry the month before. Both times when this clothesline was delivered it brought back memories of D-Bry's series against his greatest opponent Nigel McGuinness.

The finish of the match came when D-Bry reversed an attempted Death Valley Driver into a small package nearfall, then followed that up with a roundhouse kick to Cena's head. He then debuted the basaiku knee in front of the WWE audience, and achieved his greatest career moment to date, pinning John Cena clean in the middle of the ring for the WWE Championship in the main event of SummerSlam, with Triple H, who had been fair, impartial, and allowed the combatants to be the focus of the match, counting the pin. The new finisher D-Bry didn't get a huge pop, which I could see some pointing out as a flaw in the match. But it wasn't. D-Bry's new finisher debuted here and took out the biggest superstar in the industry of the 21st Century so far, to establish its lethal effect. And when the day comes on perhaps a much, much, much bigger stage, the crowd will fucking erupt if he so hits it in a certain main event match that will have the WWE Championship on the line.

Post-match, Cena shakes hands and congratulates the new WWE Champion, as does HHH. D-Bry gets several minutes to celebrate his crowning achievement in front of an ecstatic crowd, with confetti falling throughout the Staples Center. This was such a sentimental and bad-ass moment, one that is so rewarding for fans of pro wrestling. This was just as fucking good as when D-Bry won the ROH Title from James Gibson eight years earlier.

After several minutes, Randy Orton interrupts and comes to ringside, teasing that he will cash it in. He walks away but stops, still contemplating on what to do. HHH approaches D-Bry and suddenly gives him a Pedigree, which has the crowd in a stunned uproar! Orton then gets in the ring and gladly cashes in, to which HHH gleefully obliges. Orton gets the successful pin. I must mention here that D-Bry not kicking out of the Pedigree was a BERRIAL. No it wasn't. As I stated earlier, having that move take him out here after a grueling MOTYC against Cena will build the drama and have the crowd even more appreciative for when that special comes that D-Bry does kick out of it.

And that's why even though I wasn't as quite in love with this as I was with Lesnar vs. Punk, this segment couldn't have been executed any better. Cena did a great job in reminding the audience of his grit, love, passion, and SKILL for the business and championship. D-Bry did his thing that I'm guessing most who read this post have grown accustomed to over the past decade from him, this time in front of the largest audience possible outside of WrestleMania, and thus elevated the importance of the title with his performance while also elevating his stock in the company.

Triple H was great in being in the background during the main event, making his heel turn, while many expected it, even more devastating. And Orton had finally turned heel too, because D-Bry was the only one the audience had both enough respect and sympathy for to be angry at him for being such a spineless opportunist. What an epic, epic season finale this show was. ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam 2013. That very night, the wrestling Gods brought Christmas to Summer. One of the greatest triple Main Events ever, and a gracious undercard whose worst match (Kane/Wyatt) was still entertaining and visually enthralling if terribly booked (easily the only booking misstep that night outside of Wyatt winning). What a fucking show :mark:


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Summerslam 2013 felt like MITB 2011. Unfortunately, so too did the aftermath.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Super Sonic said:


> Alberto Del Rio vs. Sheamus
> 
> Very good match, the best these two have had together to date. Sheamus had a visible bruise on his left leg from that awful landing he took in the MITB main event. Del Rio mercilessly went after that leg, and IIRC also worked on a damaged shoulder to set up the arm bar. Sheamus was great in using his power to create hope spots for himself, keeping the crowd engaged. Not a bad way for Sheamus to go out before he took time off for his injuries. ***3/4


Yeah, that match was great. One of Del Rio's many great performances around that time and an impressive performance from Sheamus before taking time off. I especially love how Sheamus' injured leg plays smoothly into the finish. Good stuff.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Quick star ratings up to NOC 2013.

Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn (2/3 Falls) - NXT 8/21/2013 ***1/4
Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian - SmackDown! 8/23/2013 ***
Randy Orton vs. Christian - Raw 8/26/2013 ***1/4
Seth Rollins vs. Daniel Bryan - Raw 8/26/2013 ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. The Miz - SmackDown! 8/30/2013 ***
Randy Orton vs. Cody Rhodes - Raw 9/2/2013 ***1/2
Jack Swagger vs. Sami Zayn - NXT 9/4/2013 ***1/4
Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam - SmackDown! 9/6/2013 ***
Seth Rollins vs. Daniel Bryan - SmackDown! 9/6/2013 ***
Randy Orton vs. Goldust - Raw 9/9/2013 ***
Dean Ambrose vs. Daniel Bryan - Raw 9/9/2013 ***1/4
Cesaro vs. Kofi Kingston - Main Event 9/11/2013 ***1/2
The Shield vs. Dolph Ziggler & The Usos - SmackDown! 9/13/2013 ***
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - Night of Champions 2013 ***1/2

The match quality wasn't up to par with the incredible summer, but remained consistent. Triple H put in his bid to challenge Paul Heyman for Heel of the Year. His COO gimmick, to me being WWE's take on Walter White, was perfectly cast for him. He was absolutely perfect in this role, as was Stephanie McMahon to back him up as his cold wife. Their smugness, condescending attitude, vindictiveness, manipulation, and verbal daggers were nothing short of amazing, getting tremendous crowd heat.

In this time, the Shield came back into relevance after briefly treading water, now cast as HHH's henchmen and personal security. Just absolutely perfect roles for them as they once against got to work with Daniel Bryan, being natural opponents for him.

Randy Orton was also great in being an entitled, spineless bully.

Also of note was Edge's participation in the go-home week. He was tremendous with his Cutting Edge segments in being completely blunt to HHH and Orton.

FINDING THE GEMS IN THE BACKBURNER PERIOD

Raw - September 16, 2003
Dean Ambrose vs. Dolph Ziggler ***
Roman Reigns vs. Daniel Bryan ***1/2

SmackDown! - September 20, 2013
The Shield vs. Daniel Bryan & The Usos ***1/2

SmackDown! - September 27, 2013
The Shield vs. Dolph Ziggler, Kofi Kingston & Rob Van Dam ***

Raw - September 30, 2013
The Shield vs. Dolph Ziggler & The Usos ***

Battleground 2013 - October 6, 2013
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Goldust & Cody Rhodes

I don't recall the exact structure of the match since I've been churning out this rewatch since the go-home week for NOLA is next week, but this was an excellent tag match. From what I can recall, Shield cut the ring in half as usual, in quick fashion after the Rhodes brothers had the advantage. Dean Ambrose of course would get involved, which Dusty Rhodes wasn't happy with and he took Ambrose out of the equation - no this was not a berrial.

Preoccupied with the outside activities, Rollins found himself taken out via the Cross Rhodes. This was tremendously built, getting better as the match progressed, with the crowd in a frenzy in the finishing stretch, and popping huge to see the Rhodes family get rehired by WWE. Afterwards the babyface locker room and producers come congratulate the family. Wonderful moment and this should've closed out the PPV. ****

SmackDown! - October 11, 2013
Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs. Goldust & Cody Rhodes ***1/4

Raw - October 14, 2013
Alberto Del Rio vs. Daniel Bryan ***

Tag Titles - No DQ Match
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Goldust & Cody Rhodes

Another excellent tag match from these two teams, with Triple H making the No DQ stipulation to give the advantage to the Shield, bitter that the Rhodes family proved him wrong and had the temerity to put a damper on his ego. Something that really stood out to me was the commentators forgetting who was legal when the match became wild in its finishing stretch, but in fact the referees and both teams still remembered who was legal. Little things like that are what I appreciate, because it's simply PROFESSIONAL.

Ambrose of course would get involved, but the Rhodes brothers came fighting, having complete confidence after already defeating the Shield a week ago. Big Show, who had been fired in storytline, came down to the ring and knocked out Reigns, allowing Cody to get the pinfall and bring the Shield's tag title reign to an end in the STL, where it had poetically begun six months earlier. Again, this wasn't a berrial of the babyfaces winning the titles because of outside interference - it was a story in which HHH's strategy to play favorites backfired on him. ****

NXT - October 16, 2013
Bo Dallas vs. Sami Zayn ***1/2 (really good stuff)

SmackDown! - October 18, 2013
The Shield vs. Goldust, Cody Rhodes, & Daniel Bryan ***1/2

Raw - October 21, 2013
Dean Ambrose vs. Daniel Bryan ***1/2

Also on this Raw was a contract signing involving Triple H, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan, and guest ref for the Hell in a Cell main event Shawn Michaels. HBK once again promised he would do the right thing for the fans and questioned HHH's criticism of D-Bry. This is a must-see segment as part of the WM30 buildup.

SmackDown! - October 25, 2013
The Shield & Randy Orton vs. Goldust, Cody Rhodes, Big E., & Daniel Bryan ***1/4

Hell in a Cell 2013 - October 27, 2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs. The Usos vs. Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns ***3/4 (great job of incorporating the Usos' spotfest flavor into the Rhodes vs Shield feud)

Vacant WWE Title - Hell in a Cell
Guest Ref - Shawn Michaels
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

This could've been an absolutely epic MOTYC, I know they had it in them. However, even with this being a $50 PPV, it was a necessary evil to make the storyline sacrifice for a much more important stage, to built to what will be the final payoff of this entire saga. HBK, albeit heat in the moment and stuck in a difficult position, went back on his word and screwed D-Bry, superkicking his former trainee and counting the pin for Orton, disgusted with himself. I think what hurt the reaction both in the arena and on feedback is that WWE has stubbornly only booked short-term programs, ending them within two months. Fortunately, WWE has proven to have a willingness to call audibles and continue programs when there is still plenty of story to tell. ***1/4


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Hitman said:


> Exactly my thoughts, in a certain instance, Cena can have a great match when he is bothered enough to, numerous examples like against Bryan, HBK. It's just alot of the time he just reverts to type too often, doing the same old lame shit, sometimes doing his 'Five moves of doom' seemingly from the start, but now it's so much part of his character he feels he has to do it that way.
> 
> It's so annoying trying to watch most of his matches now, his moves, facials, no selling nonsense.
> 
> ...


Cena/Wyatt was awesome and comparing it to that trash on Monday is just insulting the readers intelligence. There was nothing even close to the highs of the Payback match on Monday, and nothing from Payback touched the low of botching the stretcher spot. _Or_ the AA onto the stretcher. _*Or*_ the table spot. One was a **** or better damn exciting match and the other a life-wasting DUD. 

You're pretty much spot on with Cena as well. He's needed the time to "learn" i.e. be carried by better talents to an occasional great match for most of his career. In the last 2-3 years he's come into being very good at what he does - his style. But left up to his own devices, against a not great talent, the match will hardly ever rise above good. He can hang, so to speak, but he can't carry or create on his own.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cesaro/Zayn ***1/4? Surprising.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Wonder if they saw the cut down version where the second fall was removed near its entirety.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wonder if they saw the cut down version where the second fall was removed near its entirety.


Yep. If anyone has the full version, I'm all eyes.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

***1/4 is shocking for Cesaro/Zayn. Top 3 match of 2013 imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wonder if they saw the cut down version where the second fall was removed near its entirety.


Think I have the one with a 'don't try this at home ad' in the middle, is this on every version? Mine runs for just over 18 mins I think.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Available August 12



Spoiler: DVD cover

















Spoiler: DVD list



# 50 – Junkyard Brawl • July 11, 1999
# 49 – Canadian Hacksaw • September 17, 2000
# 48 – Warrior • August 17, 1998
# 47 – 49ers Match • October 2, 2000
# 46 – King of the Road • March 19, 1995
# 45 – Russo • April 10, 2000
# 44 – Chucky • October 12, 1998
# 43 – Bad Goldberg? • June 11, 2000
# 42 – La Parka • July 7, 1997
# 41 – Caged Horsemen • September 29, 1985
# 40 – Jericho’s Challenge • November 9, 1998
# 39 – Litigation • July 9, 2000
# 38 – Helicopter • March 16, 1998
# 37 – Forklift Match • August 13, 2000
# 36 – The Debut • September 4, 1995
# 35 – Demolition • September 27, 1999
# 34 – Electric Chair • October 27, 1991
# 33 – Movie Magic • June 1993
# 32 – RoboCop • May 19, 1990
# 31 – Who Better than Kanyon? • May 7, 2000
# 30 – Human Torch • June 11, 2000
# 29 – Ambush • October 25, 1986
# 28 – Russo Wins World Title • September 25, 2000
# 27 – Chest Protector • March 29, 1999
# 26 – Powerbomb • June 16, 1996
# 25 – Finger Poke of Doom • January 4, 1999
# 24 – Cruiserweight Showcase • October 26, 1997
# 23 – n.W…..NO ! • January 13, 1997
# 22 – Lost in Cleveland • April 1993
# 21 – Stir Crazy • April 1999
# 20 – Pinata • November 15, 1999
# 19 – Masked Luchador • May 17, 1998
# 18 – Parking Lot Mess • July 29, 1996
# 17 – Garbage • December 18, 1995
# 16 – To Streak? Or not to Streak? • December 27, 1998
# 15 – Trailblazer • August 2, 1992
# 14 – The Decision • March 16, 1997
# 13 – Piledriver • May 7, 1989
# 12 – The Worm • March 16, 1997
# 11 – Parody • September 1, 1997
# 10 – Shockmaster • August 18, 1993
# 9 – World Champion Actor • April 26, 2000
# 8 – CoboChaos • October 29, 1995
# 7 – Double Feature • November 17, 1997
# 6 – Scaffold • November 27, 1986
# 5 – Goldberg Dome • July 6, 1998
# 4 – “I Quit” • November 28, 1985
# 3 – Outside Invasion • May 27, 1996
# 2 – Surprise Purchase • March 26, 2001
# 1 – Who is the Third Man? • July 7, 1996



Scaffold Match
The Road Warriors vs. The Midnight Express
Starrcade • November 27, 1986

The Return of Robocop
Capital Combat • May 19, 1990

Chamber of Horrors Match
Sting, El Gigante & The Steiner Brothers vs. Big Van Vader, Diamond Studd, Cactus Jack & Abdullah The Butcher
Halloween Havoc • October 27, 1991

Super Grudge Match
Cactus Jack vs. Big Van Vader
WCW Saturday Night • April 24, 1993

King of the Road Match
Dustin Rhodes vs. The Blacktop Bully
Uncensored • March 19, 1995

Sumo Monster Truck Match
Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant
Halloween Havoc • October 29, 1995

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Hulk Hogan vs. The Giant
Halloween Havoc • October 29, 1995

Scott Hall Appears on Monday Nitro
Nitro • May 27, 1996

Eric Bischoff Has an Answer for The Outsiders
Great American Bash • June 16, 1996

Kevin Nash & Scott Hall vs. Sting, Lex Luger, Macho Man Randy Savage
Bash at the Beach • July 7, 1996

Sting Chooses WCW
Uncensored • March 16, 1997

La Parka vs. Macho Man Randy Savage
Nitro • July 7, 1997

nWo Parody of the 4 Horsemen
Nitro • September 1, 1997

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Goldberg
Nitro • July 6, 1998

Chucky Interrupts Rick Steiner
Nitro • October 12, 1998

Goldberg Spears Bret Hart
Nitro • March 29, 1999

Vince Russo Hits the Reset Button
Nitro • April 10, 2000

Human Torch Match
Sting vs. Vampiro
Great American Bash • June 11, 2000

WCW World Heavyweight Championship Match
Jeff Jarrett vs. Kevin Nash
Great American Bash • June 11, 2000

Judy Bagwell on a Forklift Match
Buff Bagwell vs. Kanyon
New Blood Rising • August 13, 2000

Steel Cage Match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship
Booker T vs. Vince Russo
Nitro • September 25, 2000

San Francisco 49ers Match for the Vacant WCW World Heavyweight Championship
Booker T vs. Jeff Jarrett
Nitro • October 2, 2000

Blu ray extras to be posted at a later time.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

Ambrose/Barrett and Wyatt/Sheamus from RAW are well worth watching despite the shitty finishes to both, although they made sense from a booking and storyline standpoint I guess. If you'd have told me about 2 years ago that Ambrose would be the best babyface in the business in a couple years time I'd have probably punched you in the nose. And Wyatt/Sheamus must seriously fucking HATE each other because that shit was uncooperative and nasty. Sheamus is obviously always reliable to bring something stiff and great to a match, but Wyatt is proving week after week that he's super reliable too imo. HE still feels fresh in the ring and his offense looks super nasty all the time, especially against someone like Sheamus who clearly told him not to hold anything back because holy fuck at some of the stuff in this. Brawl and a half, and if it had a finish I'd be calling it genuinely great.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Those forearm shots Bray delivered to Sheamus were glorious. More encounters between them plz.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I like how it's a WCW DVD but they put Vince and Shane on the cover. It's missing Jean-Paul Levesque.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Super Sonic said:


> Yep. If anyone has the full version, I'm all eyes.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

Could anyone try to find me Daniel Bryan/Bryan Danielson vs Takeshi Morishima (Fight Without Honor - 12/27/08). I havent seen this match from a long time and i cant find it.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

CONTINUING WITH WHAT'S SIMPLY BEST FOR BUSINESS

Raw - October 28, 2013: The Good Shit

World Title Match
John Cena vs. Damien Sandow

Good stuff here with Sandow attacking the still healing left arm of Cena that went under the needle just a couple months earlier. Cena was really good as usual with his hope spots, however Sandow simply wasn't as engaging as I expected with being the dominant participant throughout most of this match. Perhaps that's why he's become an afterthought after cashing in his MITB briefcase here, or maybe he's one of the many guys Daniel Bryan referred to on CM Punk's biography, the ones who are content with being deep in the background collecting their downside guarantees and getting spare merch change. ***1/4

Also on this show is the continuation of an angle that I really like on paper, that being Big Show hiring David Otunga to file a lawsuit against the Authority for their crimes. Too bad I don't care about what it leading to a Big Show PPV main event.

Shawn Michaels comes out to apologize to D-Bry, who will have none of it, completely pissed over his mentor going against everything promised throughout October. I must mention that D-Bry looks completely ridiculous here, and yes, that's a criticism. He looked like way too much of a cartoon character with the long hair, bushy beard, and temper tantrum face. HBK gets fed up and demands a handshake, no longer caring about D-Bry's future and wanting to wash his hands of what happened the night before. The handshake happens, only for D-Bry to apply the LeBell Lock on his former mentor and trainer. Really good segment, and I hope HBK agrees within the next year or so to come out of retirement for D-Bry.

Lastly of note, the Wyatt Family, after having a few months of establishing their gimmicks, at last stepped into relevance by ambushing Punk and D-Bry at separate points on the show.

SmackDown! - November 1, 2003
John Cena, Goldust, & Cody Rhodes vs. Real Americans & Damien Sandow

Really good trios action here, don't remember much about it unfortunately since there's a rematch just a few days later that I am of course going to review. ***3/4

Raw - November 4, 2013: The Good Shit

Randy Orton vs. Big E - ***

John Cena, Goldust, & Cody Rhodes vs. Real Americans & Damien Sandow

Even better trios match here, and again I can't recall too much. What I do remember is the heels doing a great job with their segments of cutting the ring in half and being engaging, while the babyfaces did their jobs too of getting sympathy heat with their hopes spot and then delivering on hot tags. Excellent match. ****

SmackDown! - November 8, 2013
Luke Harper vs. Daniel Bryan

Really good storytelling here, as D-Bry had a shoulder taped out due to the Wyatt Family attacking him viciously the week before. Harper went to work with being the monster heel, but D-Bry was excellent in wrestling an aggressive style (reminding me of Chris BEenoit) to convincingly still go toe-to-toe with him, something that not many smaller wrestlers have the ability to do. ***1/4

Raw - November 11, 2013

Nothing on its own really stands out as "good shit," but there are interesting things I must mention. Paul Heyman returned, temporarily being confined to a wheelchair, and cut a basic heel promo pointing the blame on everyone else for his scarred relationship with CM Punk. Average by Heyman standards, very good by almost everyone else's standards.

Main event was the Shield vs. Punk & Daniel Bryan, which was a fun but meaningless match. What mattered was the post-match when the Wyatt Family came to attack the babyfaces, leading to the first ever collision between them and the Shield. Crowd was fucking NUTS for this, and it certainly had an aura to it that makes me look forward to such a trios match. Both trios realize they've been played and go after the babyfaces, only for Goldust, Cody Rhodes, and the Usos to show up to even the odds to an outstanding reaction to a wonderful chaotic scene. Great closing segment.

Raw - November 18, 2013
The Shield & The Wyatt Family vs. Goldust, Cody Rhodes, The Usos, CM Punk, & Daniel Bryan

Another excellent multi-man match from WWE in 2013. I don't believe most die-hards like me would love this as much as me, as it was more focused on a story, but it's a story that got me excited for what would come down the line. The babyfaces were largely just bodies in this match, as the first third-to-half of this match was the heel trios' egos getting in the way of them being a cohesive unit for the night.

I'm not kidding. The Shield just kept tagging each other in for the first several minutes, not allowing the Wyatt Family to have a chance to put in any work. But eventually the trios put their egos to the side and worked together, which was a surreal sight to behold. Seriously, who actually thought a few years ago that Raw would be headlined by a match featuring CM Punk, Bryan Danelson, Brodie Lee, and Tyler Black, with no signs of John Cena or Randy Orton? You're lying to yourself if you say yes.

in the finishing stretch is when the babyfaces came into the focus, doing a great job of standing up to the temporarily aligned juggernaut heel group. There was good storytelling and psychology, plus an incredible pace. The Usos did their highspot thing to bring more spectacle to this contest, getting the crowd even more engaged in the process. And once again, what was most impressive is that because this is WWE and tag team rules matter, this 12 man tag match, despite how wild it got, came down to the legal men. Rey Mysterio also made return after his millionth injury during the post-match melee. Tremendous Raw main event that IMO should at least be in the conversation with the DX/Radicalz vs. Rock/Sock/Rikishi/Cool tag from February 2000. ****

SmackDown! - November 22, 2013
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs. Real Americans - ***1/2 (probably the best of their series, WHY THE FUCK DIDN'T THESE TEAMs JUST FEUD OVER THE BELTS INSTEAD OF HAVING NON-TITLE MATCHES EVERY FUCKING WEEK?)

Survivor Series 2013: The Good Shit

Survivor Series Elimination Match
The Shield & Real Americans vs. Goldust, Cody Rhodes, The Usos, & Rey Mysterio

Really good stuff here, once it came down to Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. the world is when the shit got engaging. Sure, the early segments had fun stuff, but nothing really all that gripping. The former tag champs did a great job of getting themselves out of the hole they were in, not allowing poetic justice (no pun intended) to be handed to them on their WWE one year anniversary.

Of course, Reigns would be the last team remaining on the heels, and managed to win the match all by himself, finishing the match off with a brutal looking spear on Mysterio. After talking shit to the HOFer during the match, Reigns gave Mysterio respect. This man is going to headline WrestleManias. ***1/2

CM Punk & Daniel Bryan vs. Luke Harper & Erick Rowan

More good stuff here, as the babyfaces made sure to let the new monsters on the block look like a million bucks and give them credibility for what was to soon come. ***1/2

Raw - November 25, 2013
The only thing of note on this show was CM Punk shitting on the Authority, and then getting conveniently ambushed by the Shield almost immediately afterwards.

NXT - November 27, 2013

NXT Title Shot Match
Sami Zayn vs. Adrian Neville

Really good stuff here, maybe not quite as epic as their PWG contests, but this was an obviously more polished version of their tremendous spotfest chemistry. ***1/2

Raw - December 9, 2013: The Good Shit
THE 2013 SLAMMY AWARDS~! LIVE FROM GOD'S GIFT TO PLANET EARTH~!

This is an incredibly well-paced episode that I loved being in attendance for, and just as good on the broadcast. Let's get right to it.

Fandango vs. Daniel Bryan

Tremendous hometown pop for D-Bry, and the home of the 12th Man was loud and proud in showing our support for him. The match isn't remarkable, but damn it is FUN, yet the broadcast version doesn't do justice to what a great time we had live. Of course D-Bry won.

Dean Ambrose vs. CM Punk

Much more engaging than their match the week before, this time not just following up on Punk's ribs (still healing from a vicious Roman Reigns spear done in recent weeks), but working on his left arm as well. By this point, it was clear to me even live that Punk was starting to phone it in, but his sheer talent and natural storytelling habits, as well as Ambrose busting his ass on his end, made this a good match that had the crowd excited at the end. Of note is that the Shield were showing signs of cracking as a unit during this match. ***1/4

Now the noteworthy Slammys:

The Shield presented the Double-Cross of the Year, which went to Shawn Michaels for his actions at Hell in a Cell. Cute speech from him about how long it took to win this particular Slammy. I don't remember my vote, but I'm sure it went to either Triple H or Mark Henry. Shield showed signs of cracking during their presentation speech.

Shawn Michaels presented the Superstar of the Year, which went to D-Bry. Great little moment of animosity between them. GET THESE FUCKING TWO TO WRESTLE EACH OTHER DAMMIT. D-Bry cuts a short speech showing his appreciation, ending it with this nice exclamation point: "GO SEAHAWKS~!"

Mick Foley presented the Extreme Moment of the Year, which went to CM Punk for getting the last laugh in his feud with Paul Heyman. Man, once Brock Lesnar was out of the picture, that feud became forgettable. Punk deserved the award, but it should've been for the epic ass-kicking he took from Lesnar in Brooklyn.

Bret Hart presented the Match of the year, went to the Rock vs. John Cena for WrestleMania XXIX. Look, that was a very good match that had the crowd engaged, and a couple nominees were great, with Punk vs. Undertaker being most deserving, but this was one lackluster ballot of choices. None of the matches in this vote even crack my top five for WWE in 2013 (although one of my top five is AFTER this show.)

Championship Ascension Ceremony

Everyone present in KeyArena that has ever held the WWE and/or World Title is in the ring, which is quite the cast of characters, from Bret Hart to Great Khali to Triple H to Dolph Ziggler to CM Punk to Jack Swagger (looking quite stylish in his leather jacket btw). HHH & Stephanie McMahon are the MCs, with Randy Orton and John Cena coming down to the ring. Both belts are suspended above the ring.

We here in Seattle, Washington got the bandwagon started that is still going as I type up this review. We loudly and proudly hijacked this segment, chanting over and over again for D-Bry, be it his name or simply yelling "YES~!" This was different than what happened in Miami in 2012, as I was fortunate enough to attend that great episode of Raw too. That was a bunch of die-hards from around the world upset over what happened at WrestleMania XXVIII. Here in the Emerald City, we just wanted everyone to know where the WWE was on this night, and that it was time to stop pussy-footing around with D-Bry.

D-Bry was great taking this all in, supposed to be a background character, but I know that this is a moment he'll never forget being a part of it, and I sure as hell fucking won't. Triple H even had to acknowledge it, berrying us and D-Bry with a snide comment. Dude ia a pro, but he would quickly be outshined by one the most impressive mic performance I've seen in person to date.

Before I get to that, I must say this: Before Bryan Danielson retires, he NEEDS to headline WrestleMania here in Seattle. I understand that we are a bandwagon market. I understand that the weather around Easter time can be unpredictable. But it's EASY $$$ to make, and would make for an atmosphere that defines the Showcase of the Immortals. Sure, the Rock's WM28 match against Cena in his hometown of Miami was unforgettable, but D-Bry would make sure it's an artistic, and if the event took place at the Clink, I shudder to think what the decibel level would be in a venue designed to enhance crowd noise jam-packed with rabid hometown AND global die-hards. At worst, if the weather were to cause WWE to book Safeco Field again instead, I'd be HAPPY to pay DOUBLE what I usually pay for my WM ticket to make up for the baseball stadium having significantly smaller capacity. And after the bandwagon prices that went for the most recent NFC Championship, I firmly believe many here in SEA would do the same to see their hometown favorite in such a position.

Back to the segment, Cena just completely blew everyone in attendance away, acknowledging D-Bry to get the SEA audience hooked, explaining how hard our hometown guy had worked to get to where he is in the business today, whereas Orton was handed every opportunity to be great. He then said that it's time for Orton to really put up and stop being a patsy, that the upcoming unification match would define what Orton should've already been "ten years ago." 

Then the two of them came to blows, resulting in a pull-apart. Orton pie-faced Punk, who then went after the WWE Champion. HHH grabbed Punk and threw him off, not allowing his chosen golden boy to be touched. Punk came after HHH to deliver receipts, only to get superkicked by HBK. Then that was followed with D-Bry giving a basaiku knee on HBK. Orton approached D-Bry to deliver an Ace Crusher, but was shoved into Steph, who collapsed from the collision. An incensed HHH then dropped Orton with a Pedigree. FUCKING FANTASTIC SEGMENT. We were going nuts in the KeyArena!

Take some time out of your life to watch the 2013 Slammys, it's quite the fun, digestible viewing.

TLC 2013: The Good Shit

Tag Titles - Elimination Match
Goldust & Cody Rhodes vs. Real Americans vs. Big Show & Rey Mysterio vs. Ryback & Curtis Axel - ***1/2 (good fun but nothing too special)

World Title and WWE Title Unification - TLC Match
John Cena vs. Randy Orton

Good stuff here, with solid storytelling that played off of their previous matches. I really liked seeing Orton win this one fair and square, beating the actual face of the company by outsmarting him. And I also loved Cena successfully scrambling and finding a way to get back in the match while being handcuffed to the ropes. Not exactly how Walter White did it, but it showed Cena's brilliance. ***1/2

Raw - December 16, 2013: The Good Shit

CM Punk comes out to call out Triple H, but gets Shawn Michaels instead. Good back-and-forth here between the two, and I can't help but wonder if HBK were willing to come out of retirement for Punk, if Punk would've stayed put on the roster. Maybe one day it will happen, but I'm not counting on it.

The Shield vs. The Usos & CM Punk - ***

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

And thus I end this review with one of the best matches of 2013, one of the best in Raw history. The fine folks of Dallas obviously weren't spoiled enough earlier in the year with another ****1/2 best Raw match ever candidate between John Cena and CM Punk. Nope, they needed another one between the other half of the big four full-time stars of 2013.

I had positive vibes coming out of this match, and now with WM30 on the horizon, I certainly feel justified with how much I loved this match on first viewing and with a rewatch. 

D-Bry completely outclassed Orton in the first few minutes, reinforcing that he is better than the Authority's chosen golden boy. He went to work on Orton's back at first, which Orton sold, but they never went back to it, so it never became an important part of the story, which is fine. It wasn't devastating enough that moving on would have a negative impact on the match.

D-Bry also started working on Orton's left leg, which would pay off as the match progressed. D-Bry was of course completely engaging while being on offense in this match, whether it was his top-notch submission work or crowd-popping strikes. However, Randy Orton is still Randy Orton, an 11 time WWE/World Champion, so this was certainly not gonna be a squash. He got some leverage on D-Bry, planting the former WWE Champion on his belly and then stomping on the left arm. D-Bry's selling of this was magnificent in his verbal screaming, body language, and facial expressions.

However, D-Bry is one of the absolute best in the game, so he managed to keep the match interesting with his hope spots, including an attempted suicide dive. Orton however would step aside, leaving D-Bry to land on his right shoulder. This would NOT become the story of the match, but I must note that I sure hope all these suicide dives doesn't leave Danielson with long-term shoulder damage down the road, he seems like one of the decent human beings in the business.

D-Bry would continue selling his LEFT arm that Orton had damaged earlier in the match, and Orton kept going back to work on it. But D-Bry would manage to get the upper-hand, left arm be damned, using his strikes (and the crowd reaction that comes with them) to gain momentum. Perhaps my favorite moment in the match is Orton attempting a Thesz press, only for D-Bry to duck underneath Orton, grab the left leg he had been working on earlier, and lock it in a half crab! Amazing storytelling here.

By this point in the finishing stretch, it became obvious that Orton wasn't gonna be able to shut the critics up on this night, and he blatantly low-blowed D-Bry for the DQ. Cena came down to ringside, only to get struck in the head with one of the title belts, leaving Orton standing over both to close out Raw. I LOVED that finish because it only made D-Bry even more of a legitimate star in the company, and I suspected that it would lead to him being the WWE Champion again shortly after this. And I'm probably right about that too. This match worked on almost every level. ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sheamus vs Bray being ugly is exactly why I liked the match from RAW this week. Completely different than their first encounter. Shame about the lacking finish.

Ambrose vs Wade was the highlight of a bad night. So rugged. Ambrose ffs, right now.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

*@Super Sonic:* Orton/Bryan is indeed fucking awesome. That's the Randy Orton I want to see.

Gonna watch Raw in a little bit. Barrett/Ambrose and Sheamus/Bray sound enticing.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus/Wyatt and Ambrose/Barrett were both pretty good last night, I enjoyed them. Ziggler/Rollins was solid for a heartwarming pop he received out there and that was the best he has been booked in months


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan/Orton 12/16 Dec is their best match together by far imo. Havn't seen it since it aired, but fucking loved every minute of the damn thing. Gotta Re watch soon.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

THE ROAD HITS A CALM BEFORE THE STORM

Raw - December 23, 2013: The Good Shit
Goldust, Cody Rhodes, & Daniel Bryan vs. The Wyatt Family - ***1/4
The Shield vs. Big E, John Cena, & CM Punk - *** (still can't figure out why the ref called for the DQ yet)

NXT - December 25, 2013
Cesaro vs. William Regal

Very good throwback match here. Regal used his veteran experience of roughly three decades to get the upper hand early, and I particularly popped when he didn't give Cesaro a clean break, playing dirty with the ref in position not to see it. Cesaro got fucking livid after that and turned up the viciousness, showing the mean streak that made him my pick for the best North American wrestler of 2011.

Another highlight became the story of the match. Cesaro had worked on Regal's left leg, so when the former King of the Ring dropped his knees with his right landing on Cesaro's left arm, Regal was so damaged from the work that he couldn't capitalize right away. He went to rest on the turnbuckle, and Cesaro came charging for a nasty European Uppercut, only for Regal to get his right leg up, severely hurting Cesaro's right arm. Cesaro worked the rest of the match hardly being able to use the right arm.

They also had a beautiful European uppercut exchange IIRC, and the technical wrestling was superb. What kept this from being a great match was that they tried copying the finishing story of Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels at WrestleMania XXVI, but this match no matter how good or anticipated couldn't tell that story and be as engaging, as indicated by the crowd's silence. Cesaro seemed to forget selling his right arm at the end too. Post-match, Cesaro shakes hands with Regal, signaling a potential babyface turn in the future. ***3/4

SmackDown! - December 27, 2013
John Cena vs. Seth Rollins

This particular weekly show got to close out the year with a fucking bang. Once again, Cena was gracious enough to allow this to be the Seth Rollins Show, who came out looking like a million bucks. Rollins was masterful in DOMINATING this match. There is no way spinning this differently - he was put over in this under-appreciated gem. Everything he did was crisp, had a purpose, and kept the crowd engaged.

Of course, Cena would get his hope spots in to keep this from being a tedious, drawn-out squash. But Rollins would use his quickness, ruthless aggression, and superior technique to keep Cena's offense brief. It was definitely to behold. And while Cena squeezed out a victory in the kind of fashion that reminds me of Tom Brady, he certainly did his job in raising the stock of Rollins. I fully believe Rollins will be a main-event singles act for WWE. ****

Raw - December 30, 2013: The Good Shit

Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman return, with Lesnar proclaiming himself to be the #1 Contender for the WWE Title.

Luke Harper vs. Daniel Bryan - ***1/2
This was to be a D-Bry vs. Wyatt Family gauntlet match, and it was good, but I'm only rating the singles match. I LOVE the idea of having a soul-crushing ending to close out 2013, as D-Bry's reasons for giving into the faction made complete sense and distinguished him from the unbreakable Cena. Very good storytelling here.

SmackDown! - January 3, 2014
The Shield vs. The Usos & CM Punk - ***1/2

Raw - January 6, 2014: The Good Shit
OLD SCHOOL RAW 2014~!

Ric Flair starts the show for a promo and gets interrupted by Randy Orton, which leads to a tense verbal confrontation. Stating the obvious: there will NEVER be another Ric Flair. John Cena comes out to verbally put Flair over. Not a great segment on its own, but I imagine live it was a tremendous way to pump up the crowd for the night.

Daniel Bryan looks completely ridiculous in his janitor outfit, although he's had much worse wardrobe choices during his time as a pro wrestler.

Piper's Pit
Guests: The Shield

Roddy Piper just stirs shit up, saying that CM Punk already beat Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins, and now it's time for Roman Reigns to step up and prove he's the best of the trio. I loved Reigns getting in Piper's face, all-business, not tolerating Piper's choice to pinch his cheek like a child.

Brock Lesnar has a brief bad-ass brawl with Mark Henry, of course winning that one. Big Show then comes out and Lesnar backs down. Once Lesnar tries to ambush Big Show with a Paul Heyman distraction, Show claws his face and tosses him across the ring. Excellent segment.

CM Punk vs. Roman Reigns - ***

Raw - January 13, 2014

All that matters is the very end. Bray Wyatt & Daniel Bryan lost their cage match against the Usos by DQ, and Wyatt said it was time for another initiation. When he grabbed for the Sister Abigail though, D-Bry pushed him away, and the crowd went APESHIT. Once D-Bry got the upper hand and knocked out Wyatt inside the locked cage, it became thunderous. D-Bry getting rid of the janitor outfit and being in unison once again with the #YesManWagon is easily one of the greatest moments in Raw history. I don't give a shit if this was planned, moved forward earlier, etc. This was a great pro wrestling segment.

Raw - January 20, 2014

The Authority break down Randy Orton, who has become whiny and way too high-maintenance during such an important time for the company. After a four year absence, BATISTA returns and directly states that he is coming for the WWE Title.

A beautiful tribute video for the departed Mae Young is presented.

Big Show and Brock Lesnar have another altercation, with Show having the advantage at every turn. Lesnar spazzes ot around the ring out of frustration.

Last thing of note - CM Punk looked absolutely AWFUL in the way he presented himself. He's never been a pretty boy or rocked the corporate look other than to troll the ROHbots during the Summer of Punk, so that's not what I'm getting at. Before this particular week before the Royal Rumble 2014 PPV, he had always had a fire in his eyes, carried a supreme confidence, and styled himself in a way that stood out, whether it was long hair, a mohawk, shaved head, or hair still short but just long enough to make him a sympathetic character. Now his mutton chops just looked like they needed shaved off, and his hair was a complete mess, literally looking like he had just rolled up out of bed.

And now the storm comes...

THE ROAD HITS A STORMY PATH

Royal Rumble 2014: The Good Shit

Bray Wyatt vs. Daniel Bryan

Definitely a candidate for best non-MITB opener in PPV history. D-Bry started the match dominating with his aggression and superior technical wrestling, including working on the left knee of Wyatt. After several minutes, Wyatt gained the advantage when he twisted D-Bry's left arm and slammed it on the apron. Wyatt then showed his aggressive side that we had only seen bits and pieces of, physically decimating D-Bry. However, because this is match that features a total pro like Bryan Danielson, D-Bry would make sure to keep the crowd engaged and give them hope with his occasional strikes.

Wyatt was quite unorthodox, but D-Bry was so pissed off on this night that he would regain the advantage. My favorite spot of the night is when he dropped Wyatt with a curb stomp to epitomize how livid he was after being harassed for three months by the Wyatt Family, and showing that he had not forgotten his roots on the independent scene. But with the plans for both characters going forward, Wyatt had to go over here. He didn't sell the leg down the stretch as much as I hoped, but it can be argued that enough time had gone by in this instant classic for him to heal during the match. Or maybe, just maybe, these two held back a little bit for a much bigger rematch down the line for the company's top prize should they both go on to achieve their goals at WM30. ****

WWE Title Match
Randy Orton vs. John Cena

Crowd never gave this match a chance, making it clear that want D-Bry to get this position, to be the centerpiece of the promotion. But these two professionals had a good, fun match. The pacing was good and action was solid, and eventually the crowd would get into the match during the finisher fest nearfall extravaganza at the end. Orton did a great job of playing off the crowd to enhance his insecure, high-maintenance gimmick. Of course, because Randy Orton is no Daniel Bryan, he isn't quite special enough to beat John Cena clean right now. As Cena was likely about to win the title, the lights went out and the Wyatt Family appeared, with Orton taking advantage of the distraction for the pin. ***1/4

Post-match, the Wyatt Family decimates Cena and leaves him laying.

The 2014 Royal Rumble Match

While coming nowhere near the MOTYC of the previous Royal Rumble match, this one was sure quite interesting. For someone who started the match and got to the final four, CM Punk did very little and seemed like a second-rate background character in this match. I actually wonder if that was intentional on his part and even the company's part. Just seemed too convenient to see him take a backseat and let numerous other participants shine.

There were some definite fun moments in this match. Kofi Kingston had TWO dramatic escapes from near-elimination. JBL was a surprise entrant and was immediately eliminated by Roman Reigns. Sheamus returned from injury to the surprise of nobody. C'mon, Sheamus is a fucking worker like everyone else, so there was no reason to believe him when he said he wouldn't be ready for this show.

I'm gonna take a separate paragraph to mention Kevin Nash's nostalgic appearance. Sure, he did nothing, but that's not my focus. WHY THE FUCK WAS HE ELIMINATED RIGHT BEFORE THE GREAT KHALI WAS THE NEXT ENTRANT SECONDS LATER? They BETTER fucking collide in the WM30 battle royale, I want to see them lock horns in a true Showcase of the Immortals. NOLA OR BUST GOD FUCKING DAMMIT.

The most featured act in the match was the Shield, with Seth Rollins starting the match, Dean Ambrose coming in several spots later, and Reigns entering in the middle of the match. They worked together as promise, but the unpredictable, egomaniacal, and hot-tempered Ambrose attempted to eliminate Reigns, which Rollins stopped and questioned. Just fed up for the moment, Reigns eliminated both as well as Cesaro. Speaking of Cesaro, he shined in this match also with numerous giant swings (that's ultimately why he's connecting with the crowd btw), particularly on Rollins. Man Cesaro vs. Rollins is gonna steal a show at some point for WWE.

The last participants of note were Batista and Rey Mysterio. Batista was booed mercilessly, as the crowd sensed he was gonna be in the top spot of the year, which they viewed as belonging to D-Bry. Mysterio was #30 and the crowd became severely agitated, idiotically assuming D-Bry would somehow be in this match. Newsflash: NONE of the six individuals in the singles matches earlier on the card were advertised for this match, nor were any of them gonna participate in it.

The final four came down to Batista, Reigns, Sheamus, and Punk. Punk was taken out by Kane and choke-slammed through a table. Sheamus was eliminated, leaving the Batista vs. Reigns dream collision in a battle of past vs. present. Pretty interesting little preview of what could be a $$$ match in the future, and the crowd got behind Reigns, which is a good sign for his future. There was one disjointed spot, but as Reigns improves (which he does so well at since TLC 2012 btw) and Batista works off his ring rust, I believe these two could have quite a spectacle. Batista of course won to one of the harshest crowd reactions to close out a PPV in WWE history. ***1/4

I'll just get this out of the way now: Punk stopped working for WWE the next day, not even appearing on Raw. I'm not going to jump to any conclusions. What I saw in his performances the last two months in WWE were not up to par with the standard that he set not only for the audience, but for himself. In particular, his first and to date only singles match against Seth Rollins, a legitimate dream match for fans of independent wrestling, was very sloppy and disappointing, which he noted on twitter with a blunt "it sucked." He lost the fire in his eyes and had made it crystal-clear that he was burned out, even contemplating retirement later this year. I'm not going to speculate on any behind-the-scenes reasons on why he's not working for WWE right now.

Based on how much Punk put into the business, that he hasn't made a commitment to returning or retirement, and that so many top stars have rekindled their relationships with WWE after going through some hard times, I do not believe that CM Punk is done wrestling. As time goes by, the idea that he would retire with that lackluster performance in the 2014 Royal Rumble match as his unadvertised finale does not compute to me. In the meantime, I look forward to rewatching and catching up to see how WWE's creative and the roster has stepped up in Punk's absence during such an important time for WWE.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I need to seek out that Cena/Rollins match. I'm confident I've never seen it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Royal Rumble 2001 ratings 

Dudley/E&C (**)
Hunter/Angle (***)
Benoit/Jericho (****)
Iovry/China (*1/2)
The Actual Rumble (**1/2)


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

THE ROAD HITS A WINTER STORM

Raw - January 27, 2014: The Good Shit

The show opens with Daniel Bryan interrupting the Authority, pissed over them going out of their way to keep him from headlining WM30. Excellent segment for an obvious match at the Showcase of the Immortals, far more interesting than Triple H vs. CM Punk would've been.

Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman interrupt a verbal confrontation between Randy Orton and Batista, demanding a title shot. Fuck Orton vs. Lesnar, but Batista vs. Lesnar has to happen at some point in the next year.

WWE Title Shot Elimination Chamber Match Qualifier
The Shield vs. Sheamus, John Cena, & Daniel Bryan - ***1/4 (good stuff but what matters is the Wyatt Family attacking Cena, setting him up to go through the grueling Chamber match while they also pissed off the Shield in the process by screwing them)

SmackDown! - January 31, 2014: The Good Shit

After strong persuasion from the Shield, Triple H grants them the trios match everyone has been wanting: the Shield vs. the Wyatt Family at Elimination Chamber.

The Shield vs. Sheamus, Daniel Bryan, & Rey Mysterio - ***1/2

Raw - February 3, 2014: The Good Shit

The Wyatt Family cut another great on-screen promo on the Shield.

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan

This is the first of a five-match series Orton has against his Elimination Chamber match opponents for being so fucking high-maintenance towards the Authority. Excellent match of course. D-Bry worked on the left leg over and over again, but Orton would damage D-Bry's right shoulder to get the heat back and gain control. Now without any help, D-Bry FINALLY gets his major non-gimmick match victory over Orton. This didn't have the crowd energy of their previous Raw match, but this was great stuff, with phenomenal storytelling and the drama building as the match progressed. ****

SmackDown! - February 7, 2014: The Good Shit
Cesaro vs. Daniel Bryan - ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Christian - ***1/4

Raw - February 10, 2014: The Good Shit

Real Americans vs. Christian & Sheamus

This was great tag team wrestling, complete with a hot crowd, cutting the ring in half to build to hot tags, and hard-hitting action between the Europeans. ****

The Shield and the Wyatt Family have a standoff that has the crowd rocking. No physicality, just two established bad-ass trios in an Old West style segment to build to the collision.

Randy Orton vs. John Cena

Just as good as their Rumble match, this time with a much more receptive crowd due to the crowd just seeing Daniel Bryan right before this match, so the crowd wasn't starving to hijack this match in his favor. These two have good chemistry, but I do hope this is it for them colliding in singles matches. This isn't Rock vs. Austin or Danielson vs. McGuinness. ***1/4

SmackDown! - February 14, 2014: The Good Shit

The Shield vs. Christian, Sheamus, & Daniel Bryan - *** (what matters most is Christian accidentally taking the Yakuza kick from Sheamus to give the Shield the win)

Randy Orton vs. Cesaro

I enjoyed this WAY more on second viewing, and for good reasons. The crowd wasn't into this at first, which is understandable. Cesaro had never done anything to make the audience believe that he was on Orton's level. Cesaro did dominate early with his technical wrestling, causing Orton to ease back and regroup. Orton would gain the upper hand thanks to his veteran experience at the top and ruthless aggression, but perhaps he was looking past Cesaro, who had proven since the Kings of Wrestling reformed in 2010 that he too has some fucking ruthless aggression in him.

Orton couldn't put Cesaro away, and Cesaro kept getting closer and closer to pulling off the upset. The crowd got more and more into this too as it went along, sensing they were about to see a special moment. They were going insane for the nearfalls. And what a reaction when Cesaro got his biggest career victory to boot. This was definitely a breakout match, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. It's nowhere near Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin, or Bryan Danielson vs. Austin Aries, but it's really good and proves why SmackDown! matters. ***3/4

Raw - February 17, 2014: The Good Shit

Christian vs. Daniel Bryan - ***1/4

John Cena vs. Cesaro

One of my favorite Raw matches ever, and just as good on second viewing. Similar to Cena vs. Seth Rollins, this was Cena once again letting the new blood shine. However, this was better than that Rollins match. The pacing in this was phenomenal with some tremendous storytelling to go with it. Enough of the thesis, let's get to why this match is an instant classic.

Cesaro dominated not with technical wrestling, but with his great conditioning, tenacity, strength, and aggression. However, Cena was outstanding with his offense too when he would get his hope spots. The first time Cesaro went for the giant swing, Cena countered into an an attempted STF. Cesaro blocked that attempt and put himself in position to successfully drop Cena with a gut-wrench suplex.

Cesaro also evaded an attempted Death Valler Driver, shoving Cena to bounce off the ropes and then lifting him for a devastating European uppercut. Later in the match, Cena went for his shitty top-rope leg-drop that is going to shorten his career, but Cesaro got up and delivered another deadly European uppercut, this one so hard that it knocked Cena to the outside of the ring. Cesaro then channeled Michael Elgin moments later and delivered an apron superlex as I like to call it. By this point the crowd was just rocking.

Cena would counter Cesaro's next giant swing attempt, doing a sit-up and dropping Cesaro with a DDT. By this point the crowd knew they were witnessing something special. The match just kept becoming more visually dazzling, the drama intensifying with each minute. The third time would be the charm for Cesaro and the crowd was marking out tremendously when he got the giant swing on Cena. The audience had to sense Cesaro was going to top his peak victory over Randy Orton just the week before, but Cena managed to squeak out another victory. Outstanding match. ****1/4

SmackDown! - February 21, 2014: The Good Shit
The Wyatt Family vs. Goldust, Cody Rhodes, & Rey Mysterio - ***1/2
Christian vs. Sheamus - ***1/2

THE STORM KEEPS BREWING

Elimination Chamber 2014: The Good Shit

IC Title Match
Big E vs. Jack Swagger

Really good opener here. Hot crowd, good pace, nice action, never got boring. ***1/2

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family

The crowd is historically hot for this match, giving it the Joe vs. Kobashi treatment. That means the fans were already expressing their pure bliss at these two juggernaut units colliding before they even laid hands on each other.

What makes this such a special match is that it was probably the wildest we'll see from WWE in 2014. The past couple years, that nod has gone to Brock Lesnar's classics with John Cena and CM Punk. But this was chaotic, a true spectacle in every sense of the word.

Both trios did an absolutely phenomenal job of cutting the ring in half, with Seth Rollins stepping up to play a tremendous sympathetic babyface. It was a sight to behold seeing the Shield get a true taste of their style, often succumbing to the numbers game. In particular, Rollins's delivery and timing of his hope spots legitimately reminded me of Shawn Michaels.

While the Shield had come into this match with tension within their own unit, the Wyatt Family was quarterbacked by Bray Wyatt, calling the plays for Luke Harper & Erick Rowan. It was a wonderful contrast. Wyatt's disciples did a wonderful job in dominating this match.

But this was no squash. The hot-headed Dean Ambrose brought his chaotic sabotaging to what the Wyatts were doing, with Roman Reigns of course getting in his power moves. As the match kept going, the crowd never died, and rallied behind the Shield even while popping for the segments in which the Wyatt Family got the upper hand.

Ambrose and Wyatt brawled to the crowd, with only Wyatt returning, and then ordered his disciples to put Rollins through a table. Reigns put on a great solo performance once again, but this time couldn't capture the magic he had at Survivor Series 2013. As he went to spear Wyatt, Harper jumped in the ring and took the fall, allowing Wyatt to finish Reigns off in a beautiful example of teamwork.

This match will stand the test of time. Yes, it was something meant for WrestleMania. But it happened here, and it was a work of art, a piece of magic that these two teams may never duplicate together, even though I actually sense they could do better in a gimmick match environment. This was a mixture of Chikara gimmicks with golden age ROH/PWG action, complete with WWE producers' polishing. ****3/4

WWE Title - Elimination Chamber Match
Randy Orton vs. Christian vs. Sheamus vs. Cesaro vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan

Another excellent match for the night, and a major improvement over the prior year's Chamber match.

Here's why this worked much better than the year before: Nobody gave a shit about a Jack Swagger push. Here, the fans actually gave a shit about the majority of the competitors, D-Bry in particular.

Sheamus and Cesaro once again brought their throwback brutality to each other to start the match, just awesome shit. And the match just kept being engaging, the action never getting boring. Most important are the moments that lead to WM30 though of course. The Wyatt Family took out Cena, allowing Orton to pin him (and also reinforcing Sister Abigail as a legit finisher). Kane came out and D-Bry gave him a receipt for what happened six days prior (D-Bry getting his left shoulder fucked up, needing it taped for this match.) Orton once again got another dirty win, with D-Bry yet again getting screwed.

But what made this so special, and will be loved more as the years go by, isn't just how great the action was and the tremendous Twin Cities crowd it was in front of. In the post-match, Michael Cole absolutely went berzerk about D-Bry, and while Cole had of course been defending D-Bry since turning face after Jerry Lawler's heart attack in 2012, this signaled how valuable D-Bry had become in the WWE hierarchy, and it was nice for Cole to do a complete 180 in his passionate commentary when it comes to Daniel Bryan. ****


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> I need to seek out that Cena/Rollins match. I'm confident I've never seen it.







Cena has his formula for matches & when he puts effort w/it, rarely fails. Rollins has a great showing.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

THE ROAD COMES TO AN END

Raw - February 24, 2014: The Good Shit

Hulk Hogan returns to WWE after a six year absence to be the guest host of WM30. This promo is hilariously botched.

Daniel Bryan gets in Triple H's face and lays down the furious challenge to collide at WrestleMania XXX. I love HHH's amused reaction to this.

Kane vs. Daniel Bryan - ***

In the main segment, out comes Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman to reveal that the Authority denied the WWE Title shot demands, instead offering an open-contract for WM30. They refuse the offer, only for Undertaker to return after a 10 month absence and Lesnar immediately accepts in his own unique fashion, signing the contract but then shoving the pen on Taker's chest. Taker replies by stabbing his hand with the pen, signing it while stuck impaled, and then dropping Lesnar through the table with a chokeslam.

NXT: ArRival: The Good Shit

Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn

I loved these two's singles matches in ROH and PWG. They were some amazing spotfests, and I'm sure stand the test of time. But with years removed from those indy classics, and now under WWE guidance, they finally put on the absolutely best match they could to date here. And you know what really makes me giddy? I believe these two have a flawless masterpiece in them once Zayn debuts on the big stage. BTW, I'm sticking to my prediction that I've had for months: he debuts on the April 7, 2014 Raw in New Orleans.

These two built off of their previous NXT matches AND their indy matches. When Zayn went for his through-the-ropes tornado DDT, Cesaro knew it was coming and delivered a perfectly timed European uppercut to stop his momentum. Cesaro also worked on Zayn's left leg in devastating fashion. Of course, Zayn was fucking selling that leg in this match, delivering his hope spots, and making the crowd believe he could pull off the upset. Remember, Cesaro had just beaten WWE Champion Randy Orton two weeks before this.

Highlights of this instant classic include Cesaro doing a beautiful stretch muffler to continue damaging Zayn's left knee, and the two of them having their signature head scissors into a full rotation sunset powerbomb spot. Cesaro won this, but in the process Zayn was truly elevated, earning his rival's respect in the process. Tremendous match that will get better and better as times goes by. ****1/2

NXT Title - Ladder Match
Bo Dallas vs. Adrian Neville - ***1/4

SmackDown! - February 28, 2014
The only noteworthy segment is Batista going Kanye again. FUCK. YES.

Raw - March 3, 2014

Paul Heyman comes out to CM Punk's music, trolling the Chicago crowd. He then cut one of the best promos of his career, blaming the audience for persuading Punk to end their friendship, making it seem like perhaps if they had stayed together, Punk would have never left. He then also blames the Undertaker because that's where the dissension started, and now he would get his vengeance with Brock Lesnar ending the Streak.

Lesnar came out just to talk shit, but ready for a fight. Out came Mark Henry, only to get his fucking ass kicked again. Fantastic segment to kick off this highly anticipated Raw.

Batista is interviewed about his main event against D-Bry, completely berrying him. KANYE FUCKING BATISTA IS BEST FOR FUCKING BUSINESS>

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family

Another wild match with an even better crowd, but this wasn't the timeless spectacle of their original. The action was definitely great, but what mattered was that the Wyatts had so badly gotten to the Shield that Ambrose & Reigns weren't in the corner when Rollins went for the hot tag, having suffered another Ricky Morton style tag team beating. Minutes later, Rollins refused to tag in and walked out on the match, watching his teammates crumble, feeling all the bit conflicted. ***1/2

Daniel Bryan comes out to the ring and demands to face HHH at WM30. The Authority come out and do a work-of-art troll job, being completely condescending towards D-Bry to hide their fear of facing him at the Showcase of the Immortals. What made this even better is that the heat was FUCKING NUCLEAR, and they just kept smirking and going on with their condescending jabs. Amazing segment.

John Cena comes out to remind everyone that he's the measuring stick for anyone who wants to change WWE. That may sound heelish on paper, but this was a great babyface promo.

Batista vs. Daniel Bryan

Hot crowd, but the match itself doesn't matter other than D-Bry pretty much owning Batista, completely disproving the morons that cry BERRIED. Randy Orton, who was watching at ringside, came into interfere, but D-Bry took him out. The Authority & Kane were also watching at ringside, and this became a chaotic scene, ending with D-Bry taking a sitdown powerbomb from Batista, followed up by a Pedigree from HHH. BERRIED~!

Now I'm just going to list all the ***+ matches remaining for the month of March, and then touch on key angles/segments.

Christian vs. Sheamus (Hardcore) - Raw 3/10 ***1/4
AJ Lee vs. Natalya Neidhart - Main Event 3/11 ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan (No DQ) - Raw 3/17 ***1/2
Luke Harper vs. John Cena - Raw 3/24 ***
Dean Ambrose & Seth Rollins vs. Real Americans - Raw 3/24 **** (PHENOMENAL tag match)

The Taker vs. Lesnar build was so-so and thus disappointing, but nobody will care once they have a ****+ match in New Orleans. I'm not worried about that match at all.

The Shield came back together immediately, showing that their issues could bend them, but wouldn't break them. They also turned into anti-hero babyfaces in the process. I'm definitely intrigued on what happens going forward with them, and I hope they have something better to do than their current WM30 program next month. This was a great call to make since Reigns isn't ready yet in the ring to be on his own.

Cena vs. Wyatt has been an exceptional feud, with Wyatt in his own unique way saying that Cena is a sham that is also worn down from all the years on top. Cena has REALLY been selling this, and it does so much as I'm about to detail in another WM30 feud when someone shows that they've been gotten to. Wyatt needs to go over this Sunday.

HHH vs. D-Bry has by far been the greatest feud, and become interlocked with Orton vs. Batista. The Occupy Raw segment was fantastic in D-Bry finally getting the upper hand, squeezing the Authority and bringing out their true colors. HHH in its aftermath has been amazing too, with top-notch verbal jabs thrown at both Batista and Orton.

HHH vs. D-Bry being a WWE Title Shot Match is also brilliant in every facet. YES (pun not intended), D-Bry is going have his crowning moment this weekend. But there's that small doubt in everyone's head that won't happen. This has been a tremendous feud the past several months, much better than Punk vs. HHH would've been, and I absolutely love that HHH's past has been used to create that doubt, that his clout known by the smarks backstage is being acknowledge to add drama to this.

And like Walter White, we saw just what a son of a bitch HHH truly in his response to Occupy Raw.

Orton and Batista have been phenomenal in their roles too. All three members of the former Evolution have delivered great potshots, with HHH being fed up over his "Face of the WWE" project being a disappointment, Orton trying to politic and be high-maintenance, and Batista just being a fucking asshole. All of this chaos between three pieces of shit all because someone they look down upon is simply better than them. And he will prove it at WrestleMania XXX.

WrestleMania XXX: The Good Shit will be part of my annual Road to WrestleMania review next March. I likely will start with the 2013 Slammys on that project.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Super Sonic, I'm glad you're doing this. All DAT NOSTALGIA from the road to WM makes me remember how fucking pissed I was at some points and how happy I was at others. Basically why I watch pro wrestling


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, check out Cena/Rollins asap, great match (actually reviewed it). Always go with what Hayley suggests, he's rarely ever wrong unlike errrr that certain someone with a mod status. 



> Cena/Rollins (The opening sequence was great, after being outplayed/maneuvered/wrestled, rather than Rollins just circling the ring and eyeballing his opponent in typical fashion, his group members calm and advise him, Lo and behold, we then have a slow, methodical control segment on our hands, opposite to Rollins' style of high pacing and more like an Ambrose type thing. Rollins' did provide an exceptional platform for a Cena comeback to arise, his basking in the negativity from the crowd was shown through facial expressions and resulted in clear boos (audience was pro-Cena), WWE's camera work was on point here. In the latter parts, Rollins' whipped out the high impact moves he's so famous for and Cena's being pretty quick and similar, it kept the tone for the rest of the match. As for the finish, I didn't think Rollins' crossbody had enough power behind it for Cena to be knocked down and then regain for the FU, I don't want to fault Cena as he was excellent throughout but he really could've moved back a bit for Rollins' to catch some momentum off the leap. Small faults like this don't really bring down the overall quality for me, bug me- they do and thus worth mentioning. The prior interference/ring side brawl between all members brought the crowd to frenzy and allowed the decisive pin to receive a better reaction. ***3/4)


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Next WrestleMania Rewind is for Angle/Eddie :mark: :mark: :mark:

I actually don't like that match much, but they're two of my favorites of all time


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> Next WrestleMania Rewind is for Angle/Eddie :mark: :mark: :mark:
> 
> I actually don't like that match much, but they're two of my favorites of all time


Most of the match is average, solid stuff but the ending is what elevates it entirely.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Super Sonic said:


> The Taker vs. Lesnar build was so-so and thus disappointing, but nobody will care once they have a ****+ match in New Orleans. I'm not worried about that match at all


I'M AFRAID I'VE GOT SOME BAD NEWS!

Thanks for the reviews for this project of yours. Great to relive one of the best periods in WWE history. I don't know what the hell happened after Extreme Rules, but even I can't justify it. And you've seen how much I justify things from this era. Let it sink in though that you're STILL missing a lot of great stuff from 2013.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

WWE since Takeover has been consistent in terms of matches. Booking is mediocre though. And my ROH rewatch project is even better, trying to get it all posted but don't wanna cram all 80+ reviews in that thread at once.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Spoiler: MITB Spoilerz



MITB ladder match announced :mark: 
And Rollins is the first entrant :mark: :mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. They let Dolph look pretty damn good against Rollins. Multiple nearfalls and didn't even eat a pin. Psyched for Rollins/Ambrose whenever that happens.

EDIT: More Ambrose/Rollins build :mark: Bad News v Dean was a ton of fun. Add that to the growing list of impressive babyface performances from Ambrose. His selling was great again and the crowd is warming to his less than eloquent, wild madman offense. Right now he's benefited more from the Shield breakup than Rollins.

EDIT 2: Did Reigns just laxative The Authority's coffee?! :reigns :trips5



PGSucks said:


> Spoiler: MITB Spoilerz
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: MITB



Awesome. Was hoping for Rollins/Ambrose at the PPV but I guess they'll both be in the ladder match. One of them needs to win it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

ATF said:


> SummerSlam 2013. That very night, the wrestling Gods brought Christmas to Summer. One of the greatest triple Main Events ever, and a gracious undercard whose worst match (Kane/Wyatt) was still entertaining and visually enthralling if terribly booked (easily the only booking misstep that night outside of Wyatt winning). What a fucking show :mark:


Yeah, that was an amazing show. Sadly it was the last good show of 2013 before everything started going downhill, but it was fucking awesome.



sharkboy22 said:


> Summerslam 2013 felt like MITB 2011. Unfortunately, so too did the aftermath.


This, too. Like I said, it was all downhill after Summerslam.



The Hitman said:


> Bryan/Orton 12/16 Dec is their best match together by far imo. Havn't seen it since it aired, but fucking loved every minute of the damn thing. Gotta Re watch soon.


I remember that one. I think I rated it ****1/4. It was definitely a breath of fresh air after their encounters post-Summerslam up to Hell in a Cell. Those were pretty forgettable matches, imo.



Saint Dick said:


> I need to seek out that Cena/Rollins match. I'm confident I've never seen it.


The Smackdown one? It's some damn good stuff.



PGSucks said:


> Spoiler: MITB Spoilerz
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: MITB



I wonder who else will be in there. Ambrose for sure. Maybe Barrett, Ziggler, Swagger, Miz, and maybe Kofi to do some crazy shit?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> Spoiler: MITB Spoilerz
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: more MITB/random chatter



best part about this is it means we may get Rollins vs Ambrose for SUMMERSLAM. Watch as they'll give it away at Battleground and neither will have a match at the second biggest show of the year. Please, just give it to us on the show that matters, WWE. You know it'll be a hot reaction for it.

That's probably at least six more workers taken up for another ladder match. What on earth is going to fill out the rest of this card besides a Divas Championship match? That's only four matches. Barrett could be spared just to have an IC Championship match make the card, but he should probably be going for the briefcase. Oh god. Summer Rae vs Layla is easily a lock now.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Just debut Zayn already and give him an angle.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Spoiler: more MITB/random chatter
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: random chatter



I think we get Reigns/Ambrose vs. Orton/Rollins at Battleground so it easily sets up Ambrose/Rollins at Summerslam, maybe in a No Holds Barred match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Spoiler: MORE CHATTER



I'll be going to SummerSlam, so I'd probably cream myself if they saved Rollins vs. Ambrose until then. Knowing WWE, it'll happen at Battleground so that WWE can save time for Reigns vs. HHH at SS :side:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy shit. Don't listen to that mod. Ziggler/Rollins III was total sex. We had not one, but two matches on RAW last night filled with continuity. Just so happens that they involve two of the best wrestlers in the world today.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RatedR10 said:


> Spoiler: random chatter
> 
> 
> 
> I think we get Reigns/Ambrose vs. Orton/Rollins at Battleground so it easily sets up Ambrose/Rollins at Summerslam, maybe in a No Holds Barred match.





Spoiler: MORE chatter



I was seeing Reigns vs Orton singles match as a lock b/c Reigns constantly is wanting to rip Orton's head off atm. _(hell, what if it ends up being a championship match?)_ That and it's the ideal set up for Reigns' biggest singles challenge to date & the biggest singles challenge on the horizon: vs Trips at SummerSlam. It just happens to leave out Ambrose & Rollins in the dust, but once MITB passes, that area can have more light shed on it.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Moved this over from the 2014 MotYC thread.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Rah said:
> 
> 
> > That post made me look up Goldust/Regal and, outside of like a 3 minute nothing match, I don't think that pairing ever happened. Fuckin' wrestling, you love it and it doesn't love you back.
> ...



The 26/08 match (1st one) was a helluva Goldust performance. He's barreling, full speed, out the ring, and makes sure to land directly onto his injured arm amidst that chaos. WHAT. Please tell me all those matches you guys liked from Superstars are either this good or better.


Nevermind, there's a McIntyre/Masters match, on the same episode, which is fabulous. Masters delivers a performance that is ahead of anything I've seen this year, that's for sure. With some extension, and storyline going in to it, this could easily make a MotY.



The Hitman said:


> I have two matches listed, one on Superstars and one on ECW. Both in 2009.


<3


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Those matches will do well on my 2010 list half a decade from now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like to think they're all that splendid from 2010. Don't tell me that was your first time seeing the Masters vs McIntyre match too? Well, guess it doesn't matter now seeing how you've gone and watched it but OH THE TIME WASTED AT WATCHING IT NUMEROUS TIMES. I know I have. Probably too much. See, this is why I look back on 2010 w/a lot of fun. I love certain things from that year like...a lot. Such as Superstars. And the fact I saw a good Kofi Kingston match the other day from a Smackdown & it wasn't vs Drew McIntyre either. vs Christian - Fake IC Championship finals. Fun stuff. A lot of UC's general stuff was contained - no doubt thanks to Christian - so it flowed well. Part of me wants to still slam the guy b/c he had one of the worst matches out of the entire year w/LUKE GOD DAMN GALLOWS of all people too. I have to be upset after that. I need to pick one year and stick w/it to complete a list. 2012 started off good, then I stopped. Now I crammed two random Superstars tonight & it's looking like I might get it going again. _(side note: Drew McIntyre vs Jinder Mahal 9/20/12 is quite good. Drew actually plays a babyface in it & it's right before they go w/the 3MB angle. Ah. How it hurts me so to see them tease me w/his career looking like it had something new, only to give me a comedy angle that killed his supply of singles matches.)_ 2013 & 2014 are the only ones I really have a decent grasp of b/c I didn't get this idea until now.

But yeah dude, Regal vs Goldust. No joke. The tumble to the outside makes you think Dustin is a loon, but a wrestling genius landing the way he did. At least two strong matches from both. Remember the August match being the better of the two, but the latter bout is still good. btw, that August edition of Superstars was my pick for best overall edition pumped out that year, iirc. _(I should, it's my own damn opinion.)_ So that's a yes on the tag match in the middle being a good one too to round off a show complete w/two GREAT matches.

Go watch Gallows vs Archer & Masters vs Ziggler next please. Both from 2010 Superstars, of course.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WWE better put up old WWE ECW TV and old superstars episodes on the network, I really want to have ECW 2008-09 and Superstars 2010 at my disposal


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

What about the Barretta vs Hawkins series? There was a lot of hype back then for it and I remember enjoying the matches.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Everyone needs to see MASADA vs Aero Boy from TOD. Go and fucking watch it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Survivor Series 2004*

The last show of 2004 for me to watch! And yes, I saved this one for last for a reason! I just hope it holds up lol.


*Rey Mysterio Vs Billy Kidman Vs Chavo Guerrero Vs Spike Dudley - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

:lmao so now they are claiming that Kidman PURPOSELY injured Chavo with the SSP a couple of months ago... which makes no sense given the storyline that followed with Kidman being too scared to hit the move again unless he hurt someone else.

Chavo gets double teamed by 2 men. Most fun he's ever had.

:lmao we end up with Rey and Chavo alone in the ring, and after the injury Chavo is something of a face (as much as he can be because, well, who the fuck can like Chavo?). Both men go for a kick at the same time and you can actually hear the fans LAUGHING at them .

:mark: Mysterio hits a hurricanrana off the top rope onto Kidman who is on the APRON, and they both land on the floor. Awesome.

Chavo shows his true colours by being a dick and turning on Rey the first chance he gets.

Spike, the champion, has been a total none factor in this match so far. 

Gotta love how the fans POP like fuck for Kidman when he sets Rey up for the SSP. Even though he's a heel. And he's been injuring people with that move :lmao. Chavo breaks it up and gets a running headbutt to the balls by Spike for his troubles .

Spike pins CHAVO to retain. Ha.

Fun opener, nothing more to say really.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


The first of many weird backstage confrontations with Heidenreich and Snitsky. Disturbing.


*Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

:mark: the first of 3 matches on this show I fucking LOVE and was looking forward to re-watching again.

Poor Christian keeps getting caught by Benjamin and out-wrestled on the mat as we start things off here. So now we have to see what Christian is going to do to counter the superior mat skills of his opponent here tonight.

SLAP~! Christian disrespects Shelton and then... PUNCH~! Shelton fucking DECKS him in the face lol. Shelton STILL has this match firmly in hand!

Christian just can't get things together here, as Shelton continues to out-wrestle Captain Charisma at every turn, and uses his incredible athleticism to his advantage too. TOMKO on the outside ends up being the difference maker, or PROBLEM SOLVER as it were (hahahahaha I am hilarious), and the veteran Christian takes full advantage of the oppertunity .

Plenty of PEEPS in the crowd too :mark:. I wonder how many are named Tom 8*D. Get it? PEEPing Tom? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA SHUT UP I'M HILARIOUS DAMMIT.

Christian begins to wear down the champ, and may or may not bend the rules a little *cough*FINGERS IN SHELTON'S EYES*cough*.

Dammit Shelton, what are you doing? He just walked right into Tomko as Tomko was randomly running towards the ring apron, and he got caught in the middle and hurt his back a little. Silly Shelton.

"YOU'RE A FLASH IN THE DAMN PAN. I'M A 3 TIME IC CHAMP YOU SON OF A BITCH!" Christian trash talking Shelton and slapping him :mark:.

Those slaps and trash talk end up firing up the young Shelton though, allowing him to begin his comeback :mark:.

:mark: awesome reverse suplex from Shelton who bounced Christian off the ropes first, basically a reverse suplex version of what Tully Blanchard used back in the day.

Fuuuck extremely close call from a reverse DDT by Christian!!!

Fuuuck another extremely close call, this time with a diving clothesline off the ropes from Shelton!!!

TOMKO BOOTS SHELTON~! Christian is gonna steal the damn title and... KICK OUT~!

:mark: fucking awesome finish to the match :mark:. Shelton wins!

Yeah this still held up as being awesome .

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*


Angle didn't like Edge's book. Magical. Eugene meets Angle and tells him he sucks. While wearing giant foam hands because... RETARD~!


*Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns, Mark Jindrak & Carlito Vs The Big Show, John Cena, Eddie Guerrero & RVD - Survivor Series Elimination Match*

Cena us returning after... after he was... after JESUS AND CARLITO STABBED HIM IN THE KIDNEYS IN A BAR :lmao. Cena chases them to the back, where Carlito and Jesus steal a car from some random women and speed off. GTA: WWE?

:lmao meanwhile everyone else in the match just STOOD AROUND WAITING. Match finally starts as Cena makes his way back to the ring, making this a 4 on 3 match now.

"HERE COMES ANGLE, THE CAPTAIN OF KURT ANGLE" :lmao well done Cole.

Fuck me Tazz is confusing Jindrak and Reigns. Commentary is superb in this match...

Eddie gets isolated. Angle keeps running over and diving on Eddie to prevent a tag, which is kinda funny tbh .

Jindrak does the Rick Rude pose and I threw up a little in my mouth at seeing someone so untalented doing that.

Just after I call Jindrak untalented... he drives himself head first into the mat off a hurricanrana. Moron.

:lmao RVD gets eliminated with a botchy sneaky pin and even the commentators are confused.

Eddie runs in and rolls up Jindrak and uses the ropes to get rid of him straight afterwards.

Show chokeslams Reigns a minute or so later. LOL. Angle is left alone so... he runs away to get counted out... only to be stopped by RVD!

F-U and Frogsplash, and Show pins Angle.

Well this was... a giant load of nothing tbh lol. Eddie gets isolated and the heels are boring as fuck controlling him. Then we get a bunch of quick eliminations one after the other and the match ends. Ok.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Maven gets mauled by Snitsky. FINLAY APPEARENCE~! Highlight of the PPV .


*The Undertaker Vs Heidenreich*

:mark: the second match on this show I'm excited to watch again. Yup, I'm excited for a HEIDENREICH match. And not JUST because his opponent is Undertaker, but because this is genuinely fucking GOOD.

It's 2004. Undertaker is facing a PAUL HEYMAN GUY. 10 years on and a PAUL HEYMAN GUY would END THE FUCKING STREAK. Crazy!

Both men have those MMA gloves on, and both men love punching each other in the face :mark:.

:mark: Referee does the old "run away in fear of Undertaker" twice :mark:.

Fuck me there are some seriously GOAT punch exchanges in this match. Right on par with the best stuff from Undertaker/Big Show in 08 :mark:. Shame Heidenreich absolutely sucked when he wasn't facing Undertaker.

Oh shit, Undertaker with a flying clothesline off the ropes :mark:. I genuinely can't think of a time he's done that since like, the mid-90's!!! Works great into the match too as it shows that Undertaker is quite literally pulling out EVERYTHING to take down Heidenreich, who just keeps coming back.

LAST RIDE~! Heidenreich has enough awareness to grab the bottom rope and break up the pin! Undertaker just can't seem to finish this guy off!

In the end, a Chokeslam followed up with a Tombstone is enough to end the match, but fuck me it literally took EVERYTHING from Undertaker to beat him! The look on Undertaker's face in the corner tells the story, as he looks absolutely SHOCKED that it took all of that.

Just a great MANLY FIGHT here. Both guys throw some wonderful punches, Heidenreich looks like a million *insert currency here*, and Undertaker was his typical awesome self. Awesome.

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*Trish Stratus Vs Lita - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Not often this happens but... A WOMEN'S MATCH I PLAN ON WATCHING!

Man, this is a fucking FIGHT. Lita is punching the shit out of Trish, then starts to absolutely batter her with a chair!!!

And the ref calls for a DQ. Dammit, I was looking forward to this . Forgot it was so short. Bah. Could have been great too probably.

Oh sweet jebus Lita continues to absolutely fucking DESTROY Trish after the bell too. Someone tell me what the blow off match for this is, and assure me that it isn't the match where Lita gets injured in the first few minutes please because GOD I need to see it. Wait... is it the match that main events Raw? SOMEONE TELL ME PLEASE.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*JBL Vs Booker T - WWE Championship Match*

I was planning on skipping this match... but I realised I vowed to watch every main title match. Dammit .

JBL wins.

Yeah, I couldn't be fucked writing about this. It sucked.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H, Batista, Edge & Snitsky Vs Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Maven - Survivor Series Elimination Match*

The winning team gets to run Raw for 1 week each! Which basically means everyone wants to face HHH for the WHC . 

:mark: this is the third match I wanted to see. One of the very best Survivor Series Elimination Matches imo.

Since Maven was mauled by Snitsky earlier, it's 4 on 3 to start things off... though unlike the SD tag earlier, Maven didn't leave the building like a coward so he could also show up. SPOILER~!

Great sign in the crowd: "HAHA BATISTA CAN'T GET OVER". Made even more hilarious by the fact that Batista gets HUGELY over in just a few weeks time during the Raw where OMG SPOILER Benoit runs the show.

Early going of the match sees pretty much everyone tagging in and out and getting a piece of everyone. Basic stuff, then Benoit tags in again and just fucking KILLS everyone. Not literally. He'd wait a few years for that...

DOUBLE DIVING HEADBUTT~! Benoit lands on BOTH Edge and HHH!

SHARPSHOOTER TO HHH~! Snitsky of all people breaks up the submission, even though he stated he was in this match for himself.

CROSSFACE TO EDGE~! Benoit is on a roll, but unfortunately people keep breaking up his holds.

PEDIGREE TO BENOIT~! And... Benoit is eliminated? First? Already? WTF? That sucks .

Now it's 4 on 2... but HHH and Snitsky are having problems trying to decide who tagged in, leading to Batista and Snitsky getting in each other's face while HHH gets caught in the Walls of Jericho and begging for someone to help him :lmao. Oh man that was an awesome little spot.

:lmao Flair prevents Jericho from hitting a Lionsault and is PISSED. He takes off his jacket and starts throwing it around before lobbing it in the face of Sign Guy who is in the front row :lmao.

:lmao Flair immediately comes running back to the ring and the referee has to physically take him away :lmao. Old Man Flair is awesome.

Speaking of awesome, fuck me at that Spinebuster from Batista. He ends up getting the WHC to the back of his head by Orton, then a kick to the head from Jericho, and he is GONE!

Batista gains some revenge though with a vicious fucking clothesline on Jericho before he leaves. I love the story that I *think* Jericho tells in his book, might have been Batista's, how they worked everyone, including the boys, during a match that takes place before SummerSlam. Batista levelled Jericho with that clothesline and Jericho pretended to be KNOCKED OUT and the match had to be stopped. They planned it together to help put over the clothesline from Batista, and I have to say they did a great job because it always looks devastating and could easily be the finish to a match. Hell it helped HHH win the WHC back at the Elimination Chamber in 05!

So Batista is gone, but it's still currently 3 on 2 for the heels, and they still have some MUSCLE with Snitsky.

HHH and Edge decide to double team Orton on the floor, leaving poor Jericho alone in the ring with nobody to tag until... MAVEN SHOWS UP~! He's covered in blood but he's fuelled by RAGE and takes the fight right to Snitsky and anyone else who gets in his way!

SNITSKY is bleeding above the eye now and fuck me the gash looks awful. He ain't happy and decks Maven in the head with a chair and gets eliminated! He also makes sure to deck Orton and Jericho too so he's at least helping out his team .

Maven is pinned from the chair shot, and it's a 2 on 2 tag now, but Jericho and Orton both got hit with the steel chair too so the heels still have the advantage!

Bit of a miss-timed spot for Jericho's elimination, as you clearly see Edge running the ropes to hit a SPEAR to Jericho, but Jericho doesn't turn around right away . Still, a SPEAR lands and Jericho is gone!!!

2 on 1 now, with poor Orton left all alone. He got double teamed for a while AND took a chair shot from Snitsky. But he's still a cocky bastard and tells Edge & HHH to come get some. So they do. And they beat the shit out of him :lmao. Good job, Randy!

Orton takes a beating but keeps trying to fight back. CRINGE-WORTHY spinebuster from HHH. And I mean that in the sense that ever since he tore his quad doing one in 07, I've noticed how awkward he lands doing most of his spinebusters and am shocked he didn't tear anything before (with that move, anyway).

SPEAR TO HHH~! Edge makes a mistake and walks right into an RKO~! We are now down to HHH and Orton! Yey? Phew, only a few minutes of the match left!

PEDIGREE COUNTERED INTO A BEAUTIFUL RKO~! Orton wins! Orton wins! Orton wins! Once again Orton is the sole survivor at the Survivor Series!!!

Aside from Benoit being eliminated first and early... this match RULES. Eliminations aren't all bunched together with one team dominating the other (looking at you, SD tag...), some great action, and plenty of little stories being told between different guys too. One of the elite Survivor Series Elimination Tags for sure!

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 18*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Survivor Series '04, one of my favorite SVS's ever, if for DAT Main Event alone :mark:

But... where's No Mercy? :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Mercy was posted like 2 days ago. Keep up .

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35549594-post1520.html


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Been busy with girlfriend, Lego Marvel and World Cup, therefore wrestling isn't too high in my interests right now, let alone keeping up w/this mad thread. :side:

But yeah, any SVS '04 praise is welcome, and glad that you sort-of liked NM '04. (Y)

Though ****1/4 for JBL/Taker Last Ride? Dat Taker Coke :taker


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> No Mercy was posted like 2 days ago. Keep up .
> 
> http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35549594-post1520.html



Thanks you for that NM review btw, I'd never seen Taker/JBL Last Ride, and man was it ever sweet. That crowd positively sucked though, how can you be quiet as a mouse while two massive men are punching each other in the face and brawling around the ring? The pace is slow and methodical but what else would you expect in a JBL/Taker match? Finish was meh, but atleast we got the Taker sit up sequence in the Hearse to keep things somewhat interesting. I'd give it a solid ***3/4. 

I also watched Eddie/Reigns from that show (my god does Luther Reigns suck, Eddie did positively EVERYTHING in that match) and Angle/Show, which I liked more than you even if Show totally forgot to sell the leg. Kurt whipping out a tranquilizer gun literally made me burst out laughing. I'm sorry, I know most hate Angle in here, but he ranks right near the top for most unintentionally funny characters ever. Outside of Vince McMahon, Steve Austin and MAYBE Eddie, there isn't a character who causes me to crack up and laugh more than WWE Kurt Angle. The dude was a comedic genius.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only 2 of those 3 excuses are acceptable.

Will be posting my End of Year Thoughts for 04 sometime 2morrow. Then I'll get started on 05 PPV's :mark:. Eddie/Rey series :mark:. Orton/Undertaker series :mark:. Elimination Chamber :mark:. Batista/HHH HIAC :mark:. HHH/Flair cage :mark:. Edge/Hardy SS and Cage :mark:. The high end stuff for the year is gonna be :mark: to go through. Hope the undercards don't suck too bad. Don't remember much. Though technically most of the stuff I mentioned is "undercard" as Cena and Batista were in main events all year pretty much :|.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wrong. All three are perfect. But which ones did you deem excusable though? :side:

DAT 2005. DAT quality. DAT FAVORITE YEAR EVER OF MINE. I just :mark: thinking about stuff like the Eddie/Rey feud, the Batista/Evolution twists and turns, the Orton/Taker feud and PPV's like WM 21, Vengeance and SummerSlam. DAYUM.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Obviously it is the world cup because LOLSOCCER


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Girlfriend and Lego Marvel are perfectly fine excuses.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Girlfriend is something I wouldn't ever ignore for wrasslin even if I wanted; Lego Marvel is too much nerdgasm and I haven't even gotten to play w/Deadpool or Ghost Rider yet (only have the game since a few days ago); and World Cup IS excusable because football IS entertaining. THERE. :side:

Anyways, what's your first PPV from '05? New Year's Revolution? If yes, I warn you - Kane/Snitsky is acceptable, opener tag is watchable, Elimination Chamber RULES, rest can fuck off so hard.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The World Cup > everything. 

I have had little to no time for wrestling now but since today is my off day in the gym, I found the time in between the matches to watch the new Batista DVD. Documentary is short but it's understandable since they covered his life and career up until 2009 in the previous DVD and this was more like a continuation as well as a look into his life away from WWE. It's worth a watch since it only lasts 40 minutes. Wish he mumbled his words less, though. I kept turning the volume up to comprehend what the fuck he was saying.

Survivor Series 2004 is an awesome show. Cal should have mentioned Cena mocking Jindrak's Rick Rude dance right after breaking up the pin. That was the highlight of the match to me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea what I'll watch first for my 05 rambles. I like to mix up the order because... I dunno. I'm weird. I think Vengeance is the one I'll end with as I always like to save one of the better shows for last to end on a decent note lol. Shame I've already done RR and WM. RR especially because fuck me what a show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll give you a preview of what to expect - you do good by keeping Vengeance for last because that show is indeed the better one of '05; NYR is what I've told you; NWO sucks; BL has its moments; JD is pretty good; ONS depends on what you think of original ECW; TGAB is AWFUL; SS is AWESOME; UF is good; NM is good; TT is a two-match card at the style of this year's EC but boy are those two (HHH/Flair Cage and Cena/Shawn/Angle) so enjoyable; SVS is pretty good; AM is OK.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> The World Cup > everything.
> 
> I have had little to no time for wrestling now but since today is my off day in the gym, I found the time in between the matches to watch the new Batista DVD. Documentary is short but it's understandable since they covered his life and career up until 2009 in the previous DVD and this was more like a continuation as well as a look into his life away from WWE. It's worth a watch since it only lasts 40 minutes. Wish he mumbled his words less, though. I kept turning the volume up to comprehend what the fuck he was saying.
> 
> Survivor Series 2004 is an awesome show. Cal should have mentioned Cena mocking Jindrak's Rick Rude dance right after breaking up the pin. That was the highlight of the match to me.



Since you can't receive PM's I thought I'd give you the random Benoit sighting I came across. If you go to podcastone.com and search "Jim Ross" you'll see this weeks podcast was with MVP. MVP was riding buddies with Benoit for a while and they discuss Benoit in depth for about 15 minutes (including the revelation that Benoit apparently took shit loads of Ecstasy while he was in WCW). It starts somewhere around the 50 minute mark and goes for about 15 minutes or so.



#ROOT said:


> No idea what I'll watch first for my 05 rambles. I like to mix up the order because... I dunno. I'm weird. I think Vengeance is the one I'll end with as I always like to save one of the better shows for last to end on a decent note lol. Shame I've already done RR and WM. RR especially because fuck me what a show.


Speaking of podcasts, Austin gave an update on his most recent one saying he is 100% still gonna have Taker on, but he wants to do it right and make it a big show. So instead of having Mark just call in for an hour, Austin is actually gonna make the trip down to Texas and speak with Taker in person and do a big 2-3 part show. That's why it hasn't been posted yet. I'm anxious for him to do it as well but if delaying it just means the eventual show is longer and better, well then I'm all for it.

I actually own all of the 2005 PPV's on DVD (completely useless now that the Network is out :side. I think if you are gonna save the best show for last, save Summerslam as your last review. WM 21 is a close second for best show, but really from top to bottom SS 05' is one of the 3 best SS's ever IMHO. 2005 is an interesting year on PPV, there are only 3 GREAT PPV's from top to bottom (WM, Vengeance, SS) but just about every show EXCEPT the Rumble has atleast 1 great match. I recommend you just start with NYR and go from there, the Chamber match is still the best ever, even if the rest of the show sucks HARD. But that chamber match sets the stage for most of the big feuds for the next several months so it's worth it.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Opinions on Judgement Day 03? never hear anything on it besides for the Main Event.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Still waiting for Vader part 2 on Austin's podcast. 

Edit: Nevermind, just seen it's there lol.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Opinions on Judgement Day 03? never hear anything on it besides for the Main Event.


Tag Team Ladder Match is probably the only thing on that PPV worth watching.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Erik. said:


> Tag Team Ladder Match is probably the only thing on that PPV worth watching.


Erm, Brock/Show stretcher match if ya don't mind too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock vs Show slays the ladder match, at that.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Hitman said:


> Erm, Brock/Show stretcher match if ya don't mind too.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> Brock vs Show slays the ladder match, at that.


He had already mentioned the main event though, I was just letting him know what else was on the card worth watching. Everything else is trash.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Cal should obv finish with SS, better than Vengeance imo, has the GOAT squash followed by the GOAT sub 5 min match, then fun stuff like Eddie/Rey, Orton/Taker, Cena/Jericho, and HBK/Hogan. #3 SS event ever behind 02 and 01 imo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I dunno. Trips vs Nash, MR. AMERICA vs Piper, & the battle royal are the kind of wrestlecrap you don't want to miss.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I dunno. Trips vs Nash, MR. AMERICA vs Piper, & the battle royal are the kind of wrestlecrap you don't want to miss.


Touché :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Brock vs Show slays the ladder match, at that.


The Eddie and Tajiri vs. Team Angle matches from SD that year are :woolcock:woolcock:woolcock though, just for anyone wondering


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

One Night Stand slays every PPV from 2005. Vengeance wouldn't even be my second pick (Summerslam). Thanks to that sham of a match at Vengeance, I can't enjoy it as much as I did before. But Judgment Day and Armageddon. Those shows are so damn good for brand PPVs. Even if the main event to JD is wrestled incorrectly and the Benoit/Booker match at Armageddon isn't as good as I remember it being. But get rid of the trash first and start with Unforgiven.

Finished Summerslam 1996. Owen/Savio was a really good opener. Savio in general has been shockingly good. Taker/Mankind went up quite a lot. I used to hate that match as much as Cal, but things have changed for the better. It's still pretty boring and longer than it should be, but the good stuff is really good. And the main event is sex. Vader suplexing Michaels around. Does anyone know anything about their house show matches together?


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Owen vs Savio Vega is incredible. My personal MOTN from that PPV. The crowd being hot for it makes it even better.

funnyfaces were you able to sit through Goldust/Mero?

Edit- It can't be any worse than that god-awful Fatal Four-Way Elimination tag match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> One Night Stand slays every PPV from 2005. Vengeance wouldn't even be my second pick (Summerslam). Thanks to that sham of a match at Vengeance, I can't enjoy it as much as I did before. But Judgment Day and Armageddon. Those shows are so damn good for brand PPVs. Even if the main event to JD is wrestled incorrectly and the Benoit/Booker match at Armageddon isn't as good as I remember it being. But get rid of the trash first and start with Unforgiven.
> 
> Finished Summerslam 1996. Owen/Savio was a really good opener. Savio in general has been shockingly good. Taker/Mankind went up quite a lot. I used to hate that match as much as Cal, but things have changed for the better. It's still pretty boring and longer than it should be, but the good stuff is really good. And the main event is sex. Vader suplexing Michaels around. Does anyone know anything about their house show matches together?


I have a Vader/HBK house show match on my DM channel.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Finished Summerslam 1996. Owen/Savio was a really good opener. Savio in general has been shockingly good. Taker/Mankind went up quite a lot. I used to hate that match as much as Cal, but things have changed for the better. It's still pretty boring and longer than it should be, but the good stuff is really good. And the main event is sex. Vader suplexing Michaels around. *Does anyone know anything about their house show matches together?*


They basically have the same type of match format just w/ alittle more time taken to get the crowd into it like a typical house match. From what I remember were solid


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PGSucks said:


> The Eddie and Tajiri vs. Team Angle matches from SD that year are :woolcock:woolcock:woolcock though, just for anyone wondering


Amen. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Does anyone know anything about their house show matches together?


*Shawn Michaels vs Vader (WWF House Show Ontario, Canada) (04.08.1996)*

x1sbbhr

There is another one on DM, can't seem to find it now.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Dropping by here to say Ambrose's lunatic ambush on Main Event this week gave me goosebumps. Holy crap everything he's doing right now is leaving me giddy as FUCK.

Rollins did a solid job all alone too. He seems comfortable & that's what matters. He'll never be a super smooth talker, but as long as he can just talk clean, he'll be fine. Since he's a heel now, might as well be happy he can still get heat w/o Trips by his side. Although they don't need to be too far apart from each other. Rollins left the Shield to be an ally to the Authority. We need all of them in close quarters as possible. Or else, it'll be _completely_ pointless. Good six man tag main event too. More for the catalog of Sheamus & Wyatt Family in 2014. Sheamus & Harper sluggin in the start - bliss. Singles rematch soon, plz.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm digging this current Ambrose face run as well. DAT WIFEBEATER.

And I decided to re-watch some Rollins vs. Ambrose work from FCW and my god, if they give those two time at SummerSlam and I get to witness it live, I'll mark until I collapse.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ambrose/Rollins will have stolen SummerSlam before the show even started. Unless Cesaro/Lesnar does happen (which either Lesnar wins or it shouldn't take place at all).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't get ahead of yourselves now, fellas. That's how you get your hopes dashed.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't know about that. There was a lot of stuff this year I was looking a lot forward to and didn't dissapoint. It's lunatic babyface Ambrose vs douchebag heel Rollins. Unless they stupidly pull out a 18 seconds stunt, it can't NOT be at least very good.

Or were you talking about Lesnar/Cesaro?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm talking about both not actually happening for SummerSlam. It's all fantasy speculation at this point. Don't even know why Lesnar wouldn't be going for the WWE Championship on this show either. Danielson or no Danielson.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Lesnar/Cena II for the belt?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I don't know why they didn't just go with HHH recruiting Lesnar to be the big threat against Bryan, in the first place. They have a troubled past, sure, but Heyman and Lesnar know "what's best for business", as well.

Kane.:bo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sure. When plans go awry, you stick w/your foundation. Sounds like a whole lot of money to me. Of course the dilemma is raised w/Brock being champ ---> more bookings for PPVs at least or losing and making the Streak loss create drama for only one match. And that would be bleh. But still, I don't see how Lesnar doesn't show up for the second biggest show of the year and not get the match following THE essential victory in WWE.

Lesnar vs Cesaro is much too random. And Cesaro's lack of momentum atm...doesn't feel "big".

Goofy speculations aside, lets just hope the Danielson shake-up doesn't make the company do any rash decisions come MITB.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I dunno, Lesnar taking the belt and living up some "I'll work when I want" shtick would be a great foil to Bryan pleading that, as the face of the company, he's best for business because he wrestles for the fans not for his own gain.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good. Helps my scenario of him winning the championship being the one bit of logic to follow up the Streak ending victory.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'd fucking love it, but I still can't see them giving Lesnar the belt, however logical it is.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So I finally finished my 04 PPV Rambles, so time for my random End of Year Thoughts!

*PPV Wrestler of the Year*

Bit of a tough decision here because there were a LOT of different guys in the top 10 matches list. But after taking a closer look, I narrowed it down to 3 people, who were all involved in 3 of the top matches that year; Eddie, Benoit and *JBL*. Yep, JBL. Ahead of UNDERTAKER. And then I realised the RR was also in the top 10, and well, that was a total BENOIT match so that bumps him up to 4 matches in the top 10 and takes the #1 spot overall . Eddie was definitely a very close second due to being in the top 2 matches of the year. While there aren't that many high end matches in 04, the ones we did get were terrific. Eddie/JBL JD, RR match, Eddie/Lesnar, Benoit/Orton, Benoit/Kane etc are just super matches. 04 really was their year for big pushes and great matches, even if they both ended up being pushed aside once they lost their titles .

*PPV Match of the Year*

Yeah, Eddie/JBL from JD gets the nod. ****3/4 for it. Just incredible. JBL steam rolls his way into the main event scene and does it better than anyone could have ever expected. Eddie's performance is incredible. The chair shot and blade job will always be the most remembered parts of the match, but there is so much awesomeness in this.

*PPV of the Year*

Survivor Series is the CLEAR winner for PPV of the year, with 18 on the CAL SCALE, 6 points ahead of anything else. 3 stellar matches and a mostly fun undercard made it extremely enjoyable to watch.

Overall though, the year is the lowest scoring on the CAL SCALE so far, and featured THE WORST PPV ever:










2003 PPV Matches Ranked:



Spoiler: matches



Spike Dudley Vs Funaki - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Miss Jackie Vs Dawn Marie - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
John Cena Vs Jesus - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Hardcore Holly & Charlie Hass Vs The Basham Brothers - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Mike Mizanin Vs Daniel Puder - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
RVD & Rey Mysterio Vs Rene Dupree & Kenzo Susuke - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Torrie Wilson Vs Dawn Marie - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Jacqueline Vs Chavo Guerrero - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
John Cena Vs Rene Dupree - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Kenzo Suzuki & Renee Dupree Vs RVD & Rey Mysterio - NO - -1 (No Mercy)
Booker T Vs John Cena - NO - -1 (No Mercy)
Victoria Vs Molly Holly - NO - -1 (Vengeance)
La Resistance Vs Ric Flair & Eugene - NO - -1 (Vengeance)
Victoria Vs Trish Stratus - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Tomko Vs Steven Richards - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
La Resistance Vs Tajiri & Rhyno - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
John Cena Vs Rene Dupree Vs RVD Vs Booker T - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Charlie Hass Vs Luther Reigns - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Kenso Susuki Vs Billy Gunn - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Sable Vs Torrie Wilson - NO - -1 (The Great American Bash)
Trish Stratus Vs Stacy Keibler Vs Jazz Vs Molly Holly Vs Victoria Vs Nidia Vs Gail Kim - NO - -1 (Taboo Tuesday)
Eric Bischoff Vs Eugene - NO - -1 (Taboo Tuesday)
Christy Hemme Vs Carmella - NO - -1 (Taboo Tuesday)
La Resistance Vs Edge & Chris Benoit - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
Chris Jericho Vs Tyson Tomko - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
Trish Stratus Vs Lita Vs Gail Kim Vs Victoria - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
The Coach Vs Eugene - NO - -1 (Bad Blood)
Diva Dodgeball - NO - -1 (SummerSlam)
Booker T Vs John Cena - NO - -1 (SummerSlam)
The Basham Brothers & Shaniqua Vs Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty - NO - -1 (No Way Out)
Molly Holly Vs Victoria - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Sable & Torrie Wilson Vs Miss Jackie & Stacy Keibler - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey - NO - -1 (Backlash)
Victoria Vs Lita - NO - -1 (Backlash)
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - DUD - 0 (Bad Blood)
Kurt Angle Vs Santa - DUD - 0 (Armageddon)
The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns & mark Jindrak - DUD - 0 (Armageddon)
Randy Orton Vs Triple H - DUD - 0 (Unforgiven)
Goldberg Vs Brock Lesnar - DUD - 0 (WrestleMania)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Kurt Angle - DUD - 0 (SummerSlam)
JBL Vs Booker T - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Triple H Vs Eugene - 1/4* - 0 (SummerSlam)
Kane Vs Edge - 1/4* - 0 (Backlash)
Batista Vs Edge Vs Chris Jericho - 1/4* - 0 (SummerSlam)
Kurt Angle, Luther Reigns, Mark Jindrak & Carlito Vs The Big Show, John Cena, Eddie Guerrero & RVD - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Trish Stratus Vs Lita - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
La Resistance Vs Booker T & RVD Vs Jindrak & Cade Vs The Dudley Boys - 1/2* - 0 (WrestleMania)
Rikishi & Scotty 2 Hotty Vs The Basham Brothers Vs The Self Proclaimed World's Greatest Tag Team Vs APA - 3/4* - 0 (WrestleMania)
Mick Foley & The Rock Vs Ric Flair, Batista & Randy Orton - * - 0 (WrestleMania)
La Resistance Vs Chris Benoit & Edge - * - 0 (Taboo Tuesday)
Chris Jericho Vs Christian & Trish Stratus - * - 0 (Backlash)
The Dudley Boys Vs Ric Flair & Batista - * - 0
Brock Lesnar Vs Hardcore Holly - * - 0 (Royal Rumble)
Scotty 2 Holly Vs Mordecai - * - 0 (Judgment Day)
Kane Vs Shawn Michaels - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Chris Jericho Vs Batista - * - 0 (Vengeance)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Kurt Angle - * - 0 (WrestleMania)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr - *1/2 - 0 (Royal Rumble)
Kane Vs Matt Hardy - *1/2 - 0 (SummerSlam)
Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
Tajiri Vs Shannon Moore Vs Ultimo Dragon Vs Rey Mysterio Vs Nunzio Vs Chavo Guerrero Jr Vs Billy Kidman Vs Jamie Noble Vs Akia - ** - 0.5 (WrestleMania)
The Coach Vs Tajiri - ** - 0.5 (Backlash)
Hardcore Holly Vs Rhyno - ** - 0.5 (No Way Out)
Rey Mysterio Vs Jamie Noble - ** - 0.5 (Royal Rumble)
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - ** - 0.5 (Royal Rumble)
Mordecai Vs Hardcore Holly - ** - 0.5 (The Great American Bash)
The Dudley Boys Vs Rey Mysterio, Billy Kidman & Paul London - ** - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Luther Reigns - ** - 0.5 (No Mercy)
The World's Greatest Tag Team Vs APA - ** - 0.5 (No Way Out)
Jamie Noble Vs Nidia - ** - 0.5 (No Way Out)
The Dudley Boys & Dawn Marie Vs Charlie Hass, Rico & Miss Jackie - **1/4 - 1 (No Mercy)
Spike Dudley Vs Nunzio - **1/4 - 1 (No Mercy)
Rey Mysterio Vs Billy Kidman Vs Chavo Guerrero Vs Spike Dudley - **1/2 - 1 (Survivor Series)
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - **1/2 - 1 (Taboo Tuesday)
The Coach & Garrison Cade Vs Tajiri & Rhyno - **1/2 - 1 (Vengeance)
The Undertaker Vs Kane - **1/2 - 1 (WrestleMania)
The Undertaker Vs The Dudley Boys - **3/4 - 1 (The Great American Bash)
The Undertaker Vs Booker T - **3/4 - 1 (Judgment Day)
JBL Vs The Undertaker Vs Eddie Guerrero Vs Booker T - **3/4 - 1 (Armageddon)
Chris Jericho Vs Shelton Benjamin - **3/4 - 1 (Taboo Tuesday)
The Big Show Vs Kurt Angle - **3/4 - 1 (No Mercy)
Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
The Big Show Vs John Cena - *** - 2 (WrestleMania)
Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show Vs John Cena - *** - 2 (No Way Out)
Chris Benoit Vs Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - *** - 2 (Backlash)
Rico & Charlie Hass Vs Hardcore Holly & Billy Gunn - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
Randy Orton Vs Shelton Benjamin - *** - 2 (Bad Blood)
Kane Vs Matt Hardy - *** - 2 (Vengeance)
Chris Jericho Vs Christian - ***1/4 - 2 (Unforgiven) 
Kane Vs Gene Snitsky - ***1/4 - 2 (Taboo Tuesday)
Randy Orton Vs Ric Flair - ***1/2 - 3 (Taboo Tuesday)
Paul London Vs Billy Kidman - ***1/2 - 3 (No Mercy)
Chris Benoit Vs Triple H - ***3/4 - 4 (Vengeance)
Ric Flair & Batista Vs Chris Benoit & William Regal - ***3/4 - 4 (Unforgiven)
Rey Mysterio & RVD Vs The Dudley Boys - ***3/4 - 4 (Judgment Day)
Rey Mysterio Vs Chavo Guerrero - ***3/4 - 4 (The Great American Bash)
JBL Vs The Undertaker - ***3/4 - 4 (SummerSlam)
Christian Vs Shelton Benjamin - **** - 5 (Survivor Series)
Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - **** - 5 (SummerSlam)
Randy Orton Vs Edge - **** - 5 (Vengeance)
Randy Orton Vs Mick Foley - **** - 5 (Backlash)
Chris Jericho Vs Christian - **** - 5 (WrestleMania)
Chris Benoit Vs Kane - **** - 5 (Bad Blood)
Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL - **** - 5 (The Great American Bash)
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Chris Benoit - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania)
JBL Vs The Undertaker - ****1/4 - 6 (No Mercy)
The Undertaker Vs Heidenreich - ****1/4 - 6 (Survivor Series)
Triple H, Batista, Edge & Snitsky Vs Randy Orton, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho & Maven - ****1/4 - 6 (Survivor Series)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ****1/4 - 6 (Royal Rumble)
Brock Lesnar Vs Eddie Guerrero - ****3/4 - 8 (No Way Out)
Eddie Guerrero Vs JBL - ****3/4 - 8 (Judgment Day)



PPV's Ranked on the CAL SCALE:



Spoiler: ppvs



Armageddon 2004 - -5
Unforgiven 2003 - -1
Insurrextion 2003 - -0.5
WrestleMania 2 - 0.5
Insurrextion 2002 - 1
WrestleMania IV - 1
Bad Blood 2003 - 1
WrestleMania XV - 2
2006 Royal Rumble - 2
2012 Royal Rumble - 2
WrestleMania V - 2
Rebellion 2002 - 2.5
2010 Royal Rumble - 2.5
Unforgiven 2004 - 3
1999 Royal Rumble - 3.5
2013 Royal Rumble - 3.5
Taboo Tuesday 2004 - 4
Bad Blood 2004 - 4
No Way Out 2003 - 4
1993 Royal Rumble - 4
Armageddon 2000 - 4
WrestleMania VI - 4.5
WrestleMania 1 - 4.5
2011 Royal Rumble - 4.5
Backlash 2003 - 5
1997 Royal Rumble - 5
WrestleMania IX - 5
Survivor Series 2003 - 5
Judgment Day 2003 - 5
1988 Royal Rumble - 5.5
WrestleMania XI - 6
Survivor Series 2000 - 6
Global Warning Tour 2002 - 6.5
WrestleMania III - 6.5
Insurrextion 2001 - 6.5
The Great American Bash 2006 - 6.5
WrestleMania XIV - 7
1989 Royal Rumble - 7
Backlash 2004 - 7
No Mercy 2000 - 7
Judgment Day 2002 - 7.5
WrestleMania XII - 7.5
2003 Royal Rumble - 7.5
1994 Royal Rumble - 7.5
Insurrextion 2000 - 7.5
SummerSlam 2004 - 7.5
No Way Out 2001 - 7.5
2004 Royal Rumble - 7.5
King of the Ring 2002 - 8
1990 Royal Rumble - 8
WrestleMania VIII - 8.5
2008 Royal Rumble - 9
Rebellion 2000 - 9
Rebellion 2001 - 9
1998 Royal Rumble - 9.5
WrestleMania 2000 - 10
Vengeance 2001 - 10
Armageddon 2003 - 10
Vengeance 2004 - 10
Unforgiven 2002 - 10.5
No Mercy 2001 - 10.5
Armageddon 2002 - 10.5
2014 Royal Rumble - 10.5
King of the Ring 2001 - 11
Invasion 2001 - 11
No Mercy 2004 - 11.5
1991 Royal Rumble - 11.5
WrestleMania 23 - 11.5
WrestleMania X - 11.5
Judgment Day 2004 - 12
WrestleMania 27 - 12
Unforgiven 2001 - 12
2007 Royal Rumble - 12
No Way Out 2004 - 12.5
No Way Out 2002 - 12.5
WrestleMania XX - 12.5
1996 Royal Rumble - 13
SummerSlam 2000 - 13
WrestleMania 29 - 13.5
WrestleMania VII - 13.5
Survivor Series 2001 - 13.5
No Way Out 2000 - 13.5
1992 Royal Rumble - 13.5
King of the Ring 2000 - 14.5
WrestleMania X8 - 14.5
WrestleMania 13 - 14.5
Unforgiven 2000 - 15
Vengeance 2002 - 15
Backlash 2002 - 15
Judgment Day 2001 - 15
2009 Royal Rumble - 15
No Mercy 2002 - 15.5
WrestleMania 26 - 15.5
1995 Royal Rumble - 15.5
WrestleMania 28 - 16
WrestleMania 20 - 16
SummerSlam 2003 - 17
2005 Royal Rumble - 17
2000 Royal Rumble - 17
Judgement Day 2000 - 17
2002 Royal Rumble - 17.5
WrestleMania 24 - 18
Survivor Series 2004 - 18
No Mercy 2008 - 19
WrestleMania 21 - 19
WrestleMania 25 - 20
Suvivor Series 2002 - 20
2001 Royal Rumble - 20
WrestleMania 22 - 20.5
Backlash 2001 - 20.5
No Mercy 2003 - 21.5
WrestleMania X7 - 23
SummerSlam 2001 - 23
Vengeance 2003 - 23.5
SummerSlam 2002 - 24
Fully Loaded 2000 - 24.5
Backlash 2000 - 25
WrestleMania XIX - 29.5


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Rah said:


> I dunno, Lesnar taking the belt and living up some "I'll work when I want" shtick would be a great foil to Bryan pleading that, as the face of the company, he's best for business because he wrestles for the fans not for his own gain.


I actually prefer Lesnar leaving a path of destruction for months as champ, coming and going as he pleases. In the meantime, Danielson FINALLY ties up every loose end on the Authority and wins the Rumble. Danielson must face the most athletic, callous, narcissistic bad-ass monster of his entire career in order to achieve redemption at the grandest stage of them all.


----------



## King Trips (Jan 12, 2012)

WHOA CAL, hold off on the Undertaker semen.... Errrr I mean Kool Aid. I actually mean semen.

Taker/Heidenreich & Taker/JBL = HHH/HBK/Benoit? I ADORE both of those Taker matches, as in I think they both show why Undertaker is such a once in a universe talent, but I just feel as if the overall quality of those bouts still can't touch the masterpiece that is the Wrestlemania XX Main event.

Not that any of those matches are better than 2004's true masterpiece in Stevie Richards Vs Tyson Tomko. Hair pulling and stomps and shit, that match was a real drag 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The WM XXX main event ain't THAT great tbh . Well it is, hence it being in the top 10 matches of the year and ****1/4, but any time we got HHH Vs HBK in it, the match went down a notch .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal, what do you think of Goldust/Taker at IYH: Mind Games? Finished watching that great PPV. Not a one match show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Didn't really enjoy any of the Goldust/Taker matches. They weren't bad, but I didn't think they really clicked. Wouldn't go beyond **3/4 for their singles or casket match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

WM 20 main event and Eddie/JBL are both ****3/4 imo, though I think I'll give the nod to the latter as my 04 MOTY.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I#ve soured big time on the WMXX main event, would probably only JUST make my top 10 for the year

Eddie/Lesnar
BenoitHBK/HHH Backlash
Orton/Foley
Eddie/JBL JD
Benoit/Kane
Rey/Chavo GAB
Orton/Benoit SS

That's just off the top of my head. Can't remember jack shit about any Taker/JBL match, Christian/Jericho needs a rewatch, The Rumble and Raw SS matches need rewatches also... I might need to cram an 04 session in sometime soon and come up with a definitive answer :hmm:


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I prefer the Backlash match a ton more, need to rewatch it as well. I always loved the mania match but never saw *****. I haven't seen Eddie/Lesnar in God know how long

Eddie/Show would definitely be top 5 for me though


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

*Resisting urge to once again gush about the utter brilliance of Eddie/JBL*

I'm really intrigued to see who wins your 2005 PPV match of the year and worker of the year. I'd probably give Eddie worker of the year if we include his TV matches, but if we are only counting PPV then I'm truly stumped. PPV match of the year is easy for me though Hunter vs Flair Steel Cage is hands down the best match of any PPV and the second greatest cage match ever IMO (Tully/Magnum being #1)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well unless something major happens when I re-watch everything, a certain HIAC is gonna be my #1 PPV match of 05. No, not that one. The other one . WOTY, fuck knows. Been far too long since I saw most of the shows.

Half way into my first 05 PPV Ramble though.


----------



## JY57 (Jul 31, 2012)




----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think if I watched all the stuff I know is really good from 2004, the WMXX 3-way might not make my top 20 for WWE in 2004.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The front of that Brothers of Destruction DVD is absolutely awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Well unless something major happens when I re-watch everything, a certain HIAC is gonna be my #1 PPV match of 05. No, not that one. The other one . WOTY, fuck knows. Been far too long since I saw most of the shows.


This scared me until I kept on reading. 

UNDERTAKER


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

This match has inspired me to start an OVW project. Imo, it's the best developmental system the WWE has ever had.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> I think if I watched all the stuff I know is really good from 2004, the WMXX 3-way might not make my top 20 for WWE in 2004.



That match is really divisive for some reason. I personally think it's an all time great match, a 5-star classic. The thing is, it's also 90% all Benoit that makes that match great. If it had just been HBK and Hunter, it would have been dud city. He MADE that thing a classic all on his own. Only thing I don't like is the blade jobs. Those were the two most unnecessary, pointless blade jobs I've ever seen. That match had absolutely zero need for color, I would love to know why they did it.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> This scared me until I kept on reading.
> 
> UNDERTAKER


Taker vs Orton Armageddon is Cal's PPV MotY for 2005? Really??? I mean that's a damn good match but I can rattle off close to 10 matches I think smoke it. I really can't say anything though as I openly overrate everything Eddie does so Cal can overrate everything Deadman. I really love all the Taker/Orton matches though, those two had sneaky great chemistry.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

FCW had the Ambrose vs Rollins & Regal matches. I'm sold on that. Plus, I really had fun watching FCW.






I remember this match ruling back in 2009.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Justin Gabriel vs. Kaval from FCW for the title is a personal favorite of mine from FCW. But I would agree in regards to anything Ambrose was involved in, his matches with Rollins, his whole feud with Regal. I think I even remember him having a good match with Sandow.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Don't get me wrong, FCW had some great matches as well but WWE's biggest stars of the last 10 years came from OVW. Who knows how far the likes of Ambrose and Rollins would reach? Only time would tell. 10 years from now, it would be a more fair comparison but OVW gave us Cena, Orton, Batista and Lesnar.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Taker vs Orton Armageddon is Cal's PPV MotY for 2005? Really??? I mean that's a damn good match but I can rattle off close to 10 matches I think smoke it. I really can't say anything though as I openly overrate everything Eddie does so Cal can overrate everything Deadman. I really love all the Taker/Orton matches though, those two had sneaky great chemistry.


Guess it is atm. It's great so I can buy it. Although there are two other cage matches I'd probably have over it. The probably is for Flair vs Trips meanwhile Hardy vs Edge is absolutely a lock for my favorite WWE PPV match of 2005.



Erik. said:


> Justin Gabriel vs. Kaval from FCW for the title is a personal favorite of mine from FCW. But I would agree in regards to anything Ambrose was involved in, his matches with Rollins, his whole feud with Regal. I think I even remember him having a good match with Sandow.


Man. Did we just spawn myself to want to do an FCW project? I think so.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Man. Did we just spawn myself to want to do an FCW project? I think so.


Just watching that video of Kaval and TJ that you posted is certainly making me want to. Might mix in some NXT for some type of hybrid. Mainly so I can just watch Zayn/Cesaro, Regal/Ohno etc.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE Developmental project.

I'm down. Now the question is when will I get it started. So much wrestling in the world. It's our gift & curse.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> WWE Developmental project.
> 
> I'm down. Now the question is when will I get it started. So much wrestling in the world. It's our gift & curse.


That sounds just as good. Means I can go and watch some OVW matches, I must admit I haven't seen too many and I wouldn't even know when to start or where to start in regards to OVW.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

That Kaval/Kidd match makes me wanna start a developmental project as well. Just wanna start with OVW stuff first. Lots of matches I've never seen. I know there's a Diva's ladder match and does anyone know how good the Punk/Albright matches are?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd have Eddie/Lesnar as 2004 MOTY, ever notice how four of the best matches of 2004 were "rise to the top" championship matches as in the challenger wins it for the first time- Eddie/Lesnar, Benoit/Hunter/HBK, Eddie/JBL and Orton/Benoit, cool.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I'd have Eddie/Lesnar as 2004 MOTY, ever notice how four of the best matches of 2004 were "rise to the top" championship matches as in the challenger wins it for the first time- Eddie/Lesnar, Benoit/Hunter/HBK, Eddie/JBL and Orton/Benoit, cool.


Close, I'd say the 4 best matches of 2004 were, in order: Eddie vs JBL JD 04', Orton vs Cactus Jack Backlash, Eddie vs Lesnar NWO 2004, and Benoit vs HBK vs HHH. That Cactus/Orton match is simply unreal, it MADE Orton for life and reminded everyone who might have not been watching back in 2000 that Mick Foley is one baaaaaaaad man. Love it, love it, love it.

Speaking of loving it, I think a match might have just supplanted Black Tiger vs Wild Pegasus BOSJ 96' for my favorite match from Japan. I don't even know what I'd rate it, infinity stars sounds proper. It's just the greatest, and I found it while just randomly searching the web for Hansen matches.

Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi AJPW 7/29/93 

http://vimeo.com/56535267

Just watch it, people.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Only thing I don't like is the blade jobs. Those were the two most unnecessary, pointless blade jobs I've ever seen. That match had absolutely zero need for color, I would love to know why they did it.


Because it's HBK/HHH "zomg epic feudz!!!!!11". Gotta have some blood every time they face off.

But you wanna know about a more pointless blade job? *Triple H at Backlash 2004*. I didn't even notice until I watched it a month ago. After getting catapulted against the steps into the crowd, HHH actually blades even though the only thing he had left to do after that spot was crawling into the ring and reaching out to HBK to prevent the submission. Unsurprisingly, it's a mostly undiscovered bladejob because it didn't need to happen at all and HHH mostly lays face down in the ring for the rest of his screen time.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

top WWE 2004:

1. Eddie v. JBL Judgment Day
2. Eddie v. Show 4/15/04
3. Rey v. Noble 5/1/04
4. Rey v. Chavo GAB
5. Benoit v. Orton 8/16/04

I had 2 and 3 in a different order when I did whatever last year, but who cares, I'mma go with this now because I can say without even re-watching it I think Eddie/Show is better now. Benoit/Orton could have been higher than #5 but I totally hated the Evolution run-in finish.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Because it's HBK/HHH "zomg epic feudz!!!!!11". Gotta have some blood every time they face off.
> 
> But you wanna know about a more pointless blade job? *Triple H at Backlash 2004*. I didn't even notice until I watched it a month ago. After getting catapulted against the steps into the crowd, HHH actually blades even though the only thing he had left to do after that spot was crawling into the ring and reaching out to HBK to prevent the submission. Unsurprisingly, it's a mostly undiscovered bladejob because it didn't need to happen at all and HHH mostly lays face down in the ring for the rest of his screen time.


:lmao I never even noticed Trips bled in that one. HBK in that WM 20 match might just do the single most obvious blading I've ever seen. You can actually see him pull the blade out, press it to his forehead, then slice it across his head as he's being catapulted into the ring post. If that wasn't enough, you can even see him toss it away afterwards! I've always appreciated guys who go a long way to hide the fact that they bladed. You can watch Bret climb over onto Steve near the railing in that WM 13 match twenty times in a row and you will never catch Bret cutting Steve. Once I read that Bret was the one who actually cut Steve in that match, I watched that sequence on loop 5-6 times and I never caught it. That little stuff counts in the grand scheme of things.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I was tempted to ask if people are making these lists based off of PPVs only. b/c I know when I look back at '04 stuff, I have to look to TV. Mostly RAW, but Eddie & Mysterio were on the blue side too. Can't say Undertaker or JBL, b/c for some reason those guys only worked on PPV for the majority of the year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I was tempted to ask if people are making these lists based off of PPVs only. b/c I know when I look back at '04 stuff, I have to look to TV. Mostly RAW, but Eddie & Mysterio were on the blue side too. Can't say Undertaker or JBL, b/c for some reason those guys only worked on PPV for the majority of the year.


Yea I was saying PPV only because I was just going off of Cal's reviews and his selections for best matches of the year. For TV, obviously Benoit DOMINATED the red brand in 2004, delivering greatness on a weekly basis. Eddie on the other hand killed it for the blue brand, having a real corker with Mysterio on SD right after WM 20, a really sweet 2/3 Falls match with Angle, a nasty cage match with JBL, and the classic, classic, CLASSIC match with Show where Eddie pretty much gives a clinic on how to work as an undersized baby face against a giant heel. That might be the best match Show has ever been involved in, and I'm not exaggerating. CS 08', NM 08', and NWO 03' vs Taker were all better individual showings by the Show, but man is it ever hard to top that Eddie match on SD. 

What other good stuff did Eddie have on TV in 2004? I know I'm forgetting some important ones...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought the match with Eddie smoked every other match in the Big Show's career tenfold, and I'm one who thinks he is an awesome wrestler with tons of good matches. 

I wasn't all that into the LMS with Taker last year. I did think it was ''better than good'', but my previous thought of it being WWE MOTY for 2008 might have just gotten in the way of me really enjoying it as much as I should have. Probably the best match on WWE PPV for 2008 to me, at least. Actually I might think their match at No Mercy is better if I watch them both again.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Apparently WWE have big plans for The Ascension going forward, but can anyone tell me if they're ANY fucking good? Every match I've seen from them is garbage, which is saying a lot because they wrestled against Sami Zayn tonight fpalm (and Tyson Kidd, kinda)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

sharkboy22 said:


> Everyone needs to see MASADA vs Aero Boy from TOD. Go and fucking watch it.


I did. Pardon some skewer play in the finish it was pretty bad.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching The Ascension uppercut, stomp, and punch for 8 minutes while grunting put me in a bad mood, so I'll probably watch something good on the network.

In the mood for some Eddie, because why not?


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I did. Pardon some skewer play in the finish it was pretty bad.


:shocked:

Please tell me you're kidding? MASADA put the guy over big time.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Perhaps I should give MASADA/Aero Boy a shot, but I think MASADA sucks.

Oddly enough, I actually enjoy one Ascension match, and it happens to be against two wrestlers who on a bad day are even worse than they are. Something about that American Wolves match was kinda fun. And I had to laugh at that awful Davey Richards botch.

Go watch Eddie Guerrero vs. Jimmy Jacobs and Eddie/Rey vs. MNM series. And the Eddie/Batista vs. MNM series. All from 2005.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> Watching The Ascension uppercut, stomp, and punch for 8 minutes while grunting put me in a bad mood, so I'll probably watch something good on the network.
> 
> In the mood for some Eddie, because why not?



Watch this one vs your boy 

Eddie vs Angle SD 4/14/05

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VSsQHq-vgsM


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

:mark: I LOVE that match. I most likely watched it when it aired but remembered nothing about it until seeing it a couple years ago. Probably my favorite match from those two with their 2/3 falls being second.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

PGSucks said:


> :mark: I LOVE that match. I most likely watched it when it aired but remembered nothing about it until seeing it a couple years ago. Probably my favorite match from those two with their 2/3 falls being second.


Incoming Funnyfaces to complain about the selling in that match in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1....... 

(Just teasing you dude)

Is it okay for me to put over a TNA match in here? I just watched the Styles/Abyss Cage Match from Lockdown 2005 for the first time and, hot damn this was just fucking outstanding. AJ turns in a truly amazing baby face performance, from the dive at the opening bell, to the selling and way he allowed Abyss to brutalize him, to the SICKENING slams to the face he took from the cage door, and finally to that incredible finishing stretch with Abyss getting planted in the tacks. Man what a great, great match. I never followed TNA and have only started checking out stuff from that company in 2005-2006 recently, and I've found quite a few BAD ASS matches.

Flux sent me a Samoa Joe/Sabin match that just blew my mind. Never seen a Sabin match before, he impressed the hell out of me and what else can you really say about Joe? From 2004-2006 he was one of the best wrestlers on the planet. Watching him kick, strike, and brutalize under dog faces never gets old.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

My stock on AJ went up pretty big watching some stuff last year, including the Abyss cage. Didn't think it was GREAT, but I think that was the first time I thought of AJ as someone who could actually carry a match.

Liked Joe/Sabin as well. Sabin I tend to think is all right when watching him, but he fades from memory really quickly. Have you seen his match with Juvi from TNA in 2003? That's a goody.

did some searching...turns out I wrote on both matches. OK...?



Spoiler:  tna in wwe thread! ban me!



AJ Styles v. Abyss (Lockdown 4/24/05)
Well I had zero expectations to like this at all and actually wound up actively enjoying it. The only time I have ever seen Abyss look like anything more than a pile of untrained crap was when he was working as Joseph Park (a gimmick in which he is supposed to act like a pile of untrained crap), so I was surprised to see him only fuck up a couple of things here and look like someone who could put a decent match together. This was a total AJ Styles show, though. I mentioned in the IWA three-way how he bumped in a way that looked like the offensive move was actually making him bump that way, and man he did a great job of that here. Abyss hits a mediocre club to the back and AJ hits the ground hard. Any idiot can hit the ground hard on a mediocre club, but not any idiot can make it seem like the mediocre club actually sent him downward to hit the ground hard. Well this idiot could. They brawl around the cage before getting in it which I’m pretty sure was not part of the match, but was fun. AJ bumps for Abyss huge and comes up with some cool shit when also not bumping. He took an Irish whip (or just a ‘chuck’ of some variety, IDR), and avoids danger by actually sliding under the guardrail, and he didn’t make THAT shit look like silly shit, either. I’m pretty sure most people know about the cage door bump. I’d seen it in .GIFs and stuff before but in the context of a match where AJ is taking great bumps, it looks like a really great bump. It was set up kind of obviously, but I have to remember that I knew the bump was coming. If I didn’t know if coming, would I have seen the obvious set up? Doesn’t matter, b/c I would have lost my head at the bump anyway. Stupid .GIF. The cage stuff is OK. Abyss screws catching AJ once or twice, but AJ still bumps like an asshole, so it’s ultimately pretty fun. AJ working form the bottom is good AJ. I wish this finished with the sub-Styles Clash on the tacks instead of the jerk off top rope move which TNA have to get in every cage match, but I have no real complaints. Enjoyable AJ carry. 

Samoa Joe v. Chris Sabin (I remember the date but not the PPV. It’s probably Sacrifice or Hardcore Sacrifice or something like that 7/17/05)
Really fun Joe v. Guy Smaller than Joe match. Joe gets to run his signature spots and I typically like Joe’s signature spots. I kinda dug Sabin and IDK why but I really thought I wouldn’t (or didn’t). Maybe I’m confusing him with Alex Shelley who I’m pretty sure I hate, but I swore I cringed at whatever I saw from Sabin, x amount of x’s ago. He has some ass-crummy dropkick variations and yells randomly in places, but he was good Joe fodder here. I should mention I hate Joe’s spot (and other people like Hero have done this too) of powerbombing a guy and going to an STF IMMEDIATELY following the powerbomb. It’s likely that Joe wants it to look like he’s softening the guy up with the powerbomb for the STF, but the seller never sells it any differently. It makes the powerbomb look useless and like shitty finisher spam which I fucking hate. I *did* really dig how Sabin would never tap and Joe had to keep switching up the submissions; which kind of ties in with Sabin passing out instead of tapping in the end, too (though that’s probably more to do with the muscle buster). Really cool match, I’ve actually enjoyed the TNA I’ve watched so far. At this point I’m not positive a TNA match will come within a *****’s willy of my 100, but more than once I’ve said ‘I wanna see more TNA’ for one reason or another. There’s likely more good than I thought there was. I suppose being picky and choosy about what to watch so far has helped me like whatever I liked (and there is obv some rubbish), but I’m curious to see more now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are you guys aware of the three hidden gems on RAW in late 1996? I'm talking about Mankind/Austin from 11/18, Owen vs. Bret at 11/25, and Mankind vs. Undertaker at 12/9. All three are super fun and worth watching. 

:side: I like that Angle/Eddie match, but I was just bothered by how pointless everything before the finishing stretch felt. Perhaps it's worth a rewatch, but I also did not think the ending was executed very well. Also recall Kurt once again allowing another wrestler to make a fool of him on the mat, which is almost always infuriating. Like, it's a good match. But it's not Dean Ambrose level good. But it did happen in Chicago, so maybe I should like it more in principle.

I will take this to the grave, but I strongly believe that if Samoa Joe went to the WWE in the mid-2000s, HE would have been the breakaway star instead of Cena, Batista, Edge, or Orton.

EDIT: Rewatched Eddie/Angle and I enjoy it a bit more now. But more importantly, Austin and Vader had a match on RAW in December of 96.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Have watched Mankind/Austin. It's awesome. Don't remember the other two, I'll keep a mental note (hopefully). I *have* seen the Austin/Vader match, and it is awesome as well.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Fantasy DVD concept



Spoiler: WWE Presents: The Legacy of TNA Wrestling



*Double Elimination Match to Determine the First Ever X-Division Champion*
Low Ki vs. Psychosis vs. Jerry Lynn vs. AJ Styles
_NWA-TNA – June 26, 2002_

*NWA Title Match*
Jeff Jarrett vs. Raven vs. AJ Styles
_NWA-TNA – June 11, 2003_

*2003 Super X Cup Tournament Final*
Chris Sabin vs. Juventud Guerrera
_NWA-TNA – September 3, 2003_

*Losing Team Must Split – Cage Match*
America’s Most Wanted vs. Elix Skipper & Christopher Daniels
_Turning Point 2004 – December 5, 2004_

*X-Division Title – 30 Minute Iron Man Match*
AJ Styles vs. Christopher Daniels
_Against All Odds 2005 – February 13, 2005_

*X-Division Title Match*
Christopher Daniels vs. Samoa Joe vs. AJ Styles
_Unbreakable – September 11, 2005_

*X-Division Title Match*
AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe
_Turning Point 2005 – December 11, 2005_

*NWA Title – Cage Match*
Christian Cage vs. Abyss
_Lockdown 2006 – April 23, 2006_

Samoa Joe vs. Scott Steiner
_Slammiversary 2006 – June 18, 2006_

*Tag Titles – Ultimate X Match*
LAX vs. AJ Styles & Christopher Daniels
_No Surrender 2006 – September 24, 2006_

Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe
_Genesis 2006 – November 19, 2006_

*Texas Death Match*
Chris Harris vs. James Storm
_Sacrifice 2007 – May 13, 2007_

*X-Division Title Match*
Kurt Angle vs. Jay Lethal
_No Surrender 2007 – September 9, 2007_

Team 3D vs. Motor City Machine Guns
_Genesis 2007 – November 11, 2007_

*Knockouts Title Match*
Gail Kim vs. Awesome Kong
_Turning Point 2007 – December 2, 2007_

*Survivor Series Style Elimination Match*
Curry Man & Motor City Machine Guns vs. Doug Williams, Alex Koslov, & Tyson Dux vs. Masato Yoshino, Milano Collection AT, & Puma (TJ Perkins) vs. Ultimo Guerrero, Rey Bucanero, & Averno, Jr.
_Victory Road 2008 – July 13, 2008_

*No DQ Match*
Kurt Angle vs. Jeff Jarrett
_Genesis 2009 – January 11, 2009_

Kurt Angle vs. Desmond Wolfe
_Turning Point 2009 – November 15, 2009_

*TNA Title Match*
AJ Styles vs. Rob Van Dam
_Impact – April 19, 2010_

*Tag Titles – 2/3 Falls Match*
Motor City Machine Guns vs. Beer Money
_Impact – August 12, 2010_

*Hardcore Match*
Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley
_Impact – October 7, 2010_

*Hulk Hogan’s Last Match*
Hulk Hogan vs. Sting
_Bound For Glory 2011 – October 16, 2011_

*Tag Titles Match*
Bad Influence vs. Kurt Angle & AJ Styles
_Slammiversary 2012 – June 10, 2012_

*TNA Title Match*
Austin Aries vs. Jeff Hardy
_Bound For Glory 2012 – October 14, 2012_

BLU RAY EXTRAS

*X-Division Title – Ultimate X Match*
Petey Williams vs. Chris Sabin vs. AJ Styles
_Final Resolution 2005 – January 16, 2005_

*NWA Title Shot – Cage Match*
Abyss vs. AJ Styles
_Lockdown 2005 – April 24, 2005_

*TNA Title – Cage Match*
Kurt Angle vs. Samoa Joe
_Lockdown 2008 – April 13, 2008_

Speed Muscle vs. Motor City Machine Guns
_Impact - June 5, 2008_

Low Ki vs. Austin Aries vs. Jack Evans vs. Zema Ion
_Destination X 2011 – July 10, 2011_

*TNA Title Match*
Bobby Roode vs. Austin Aries
_Destination X 2012 – July 8, 2012_


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

> Double Elimination Match to Determine the First Ever X-Division Champion
> Low Ki vs. Psychosis vs. Jerry Lynn vs. AJ Styles
> NWA-TNA – June 26, 2002


This match is so good. Watched it a couple years ago and god damn was I blown away. Everybody should see this.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've seen a Chris Sabin match or two in my day. Ha.

Sabin vs Joe. YES please. Love it. Happy to know the right areas of that PPV it comes from _(No Surrender '05)_ holds up too. AJ Styles vs Sean Waltman. Lordy.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Anyone doing a ROH project?


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Yeah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Basically my ROH project will never end. Always new shows to luck out on finding online. Or I'll convince McQueen to give me the slew of shows he never watches any more.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Is it just me, or are WWE on a roll with making shitty themes? First Cesaro, then Rollins and now that abomination for Ambrose.



EDIT: not as bad as Naomi/Paige and the wrestlecrap booking attached.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Budget cuts.

8*D


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

They have to pay royalty for real music.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> EDIT: not as bad as Naomi/Paige and the wrestlecrap booking attached.


someone made a thread on that match being good. The WWE section.

oh it was Skyfall. makes sense. :hayden3


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Joe ain't no Parka.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Paige is just nice to look at. Shes easy on the eyes. :trips5


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Leon Knuckles said:


> They have to pay royalty for real music.


Because real music is only equatable to mainstream success? Aside from a number of decent in-house entrance themes, I'm sure there are a myriad of composers or bands looking to make a name for themselves, regardless, that wouldn't set WWE back a fortune. If you want to market someone as a star, you have to present them as one.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> someone made a thread on that match being good. The WWE section.
> 
> oh it was Skyfall. makes sense. :hayden3


It was so sloppy Naomi apologised, loudly, to Paige during her finisher.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Among many other spots called loudly. Yeesh.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Rah said:


> Is it just me, or are WWE on a roll with making shitty themes? First Cesaro, then Rollins and now that abomination for Ambrose.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: not as bad as Naomi/Paige and the wrestlecrap booking attached.



Yeah this new band CFO$ or whatever is making most of the new themes and they suck. And if you remove the intro to Ambrose's theme, he and Rollins pretty much have identical music lol.

And to think even Crash Holly and Maven had good themes back in the day.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

You know who had a BAD ASS WWE theme that no one ever talks about? Fucking Raven, his theme during his run around 2001 was just tits:






And of course one of my all time favorites, the APA:







Why they ever changed Austin's original theme to that Disturbed pile of crap, I'll never know:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*SummerSlam 2005*

So I always like to end my PPV Rambles with the better/most interesting PPV to me of the year. People told me I should save SummerSlam for last because it's the best. So I'm doing it first and saving Vengeance for last. Suck it .


*Orlando Jordan Vs Chris Benoit - WWE United States Championship Match*

Bell rings.

German suplex.

Crossface.

Tap out.

Best match of Orlando's career.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


THIS IS ABOUT YOU WINNING AGAINST REY BEING BETTER THAN HIM. I can see why WWE decided to give Vickie a mic after this, she's clearly a natural speaker...


*Matt Hardy Vs Edge*

:mark: I actually watched this not too long ago and thought it was fucking wonderful. Totally watching it again though. Because, you know. WONDERFUL.

How awesome was this feud btw? They took something that was very real, and because of fans reaction to Matt getting fired, then HAD to bring him back. And before they officially announced him being back, a lot of his run-ins felt very "real", or at least more so than your typical angle. Just a shame the feud only seemed to elevate Edge and not Matt.

Coach: YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE A WRESTLING HOLD IN THIS MATCH, NOT A SINGLE ONE

Straight after Coach says that, Hardy applies a sleeper :lmao.

Matt throws some wicked shots at Edge. Totally fucking potatoing him. HEADBUTT FROM EDGE~!

SPEAR THROUGH THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR~!

MOAR stuff shots from Matt :mark:. This is just a fucking FIGHT and it's beautiful.

Fucking hell Matt takes one hell of a shot to the face with the ring post. That's it for Matt. He's bleeding and he's fucked. Edge goes straight to work on the open wound, and just keeps PUNCHING IT.

KNEE'S TO THE FACE~!

MULTIPLE KICKS TO THE FACE~!

The referee calls for the bell. Matt cannot continue. This was short, sweet and BRUTAL. Love it. Perfect match for the feud. Cannot wait to see their cage match again :mark:.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - Custody of Dominick Ladder Match*

I'm so fucking excited to see the JD and GAB matches between these two. I'm also very pleased I've already done my WM 21 ramble so I don't have to sit through their awful match there. This one though? Well... I'm not hyped for it... but it's not something I consider to be awful. Just wish the whole Dominick story didn't get in the way of Eddie and Rey's feud. They were doing perfectly fine with Eddie simply wanting to beat Rey, then turning heel because he NEEDED to beat Rey no matter the cost. But no, WWE had to throw in the whole "Eddie is really Dominick's father" crap.

Fucking awesome seated senton over the ropes to Eddie on the floor, which looked even better due to the fact Eddie was holding a ladder and Rey avoided it and landed perfectly on Eddie's face .

BOTCH~! Eddie went for a sunset flip powerbomb, but let go of Rey and both guys just fall to the floor lol.

HI-LO TO REY SANDWICHED BETWEEN LADDERS~! Which is something I always hate. RVD does it in like, every ladder match ever but with a rolling thunder. And it's always dumb, because whoever delivers the move HURTS THEMSELVES. Surely doing the move to someone on a ladder hurts enough, right? No sense in putting another ladder on top of them so you hurt both of you. Right?

Oh sweet jebus. Eddie gets back body dropped off the ladder onto another ladder, which looks sick, then the ladder Rey was on collapses and his crashes and burns too. No wonder his knees are fucked.

Rey takes another sick ladder bump, leaving Eddie to climb the ladder! And then... :lmao Dominick comes into the ring and tries to shake the ladder... but the kid is 8 years old and probably couldn't shift the ladder with nobody on it. Looks more hilarious than a kid desperate to save Rey.

I'M YOUR NEW DADDY NOW~! Heel Eddie rules.

:lmao Rey hits a 619 to Eddie who is holding a ladder, and he fucks up his knees AGAIN. So what does he do to follow it up? LEGDROP THE LADDER~! Rey is absolutely DESTROYING his own legs. In a match where you have to CLIMB A LADDER to win. What a fucking moron :lmao.

SUNSET FLIP POWERBOMB OFF THE LADDER~! Rey manages to execute it properly .

Rey is about to win until... Eddie kicks the ladder out from under him, and catches a falling Rey with a fucking terrific Powerbomb. Which Cole keeps calling a spinebuster until Tazz corrects him .

Eddie pins Rey with the ladder, and forces him to watch as he climbs. Very slowly. He waves at Rey and mocks him as he edges closer to the briefcase... almost as if something was supposed to happen but didn't... .

Now Eddie is hanging as Rey moves the ladder!!!

WHERE THE FUCK WAS VICKIE?!?! Eddie is pissed and starts punching the mat lol. She can't say one sentence and have it make sense and she can't show up for a spot at the right time. SHE SHOULD BE THE GM!!!

Ahhh, here she comes! Better late than never... I guess. She's out here to stop Eddie, and even shoves him off the ladder!!! It's not that she's doing the right thing for Rey and Dominick... it's that she doesn't want another kid in the house 8*D.

Rey wins!

Match is ok, good even. But their weakest match from their 05 series outside of the awful, awful WM bout. Even if they didn't botch a few things here and there it wouldn't have been great imo.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Eugene Vs Kurt Angle*

For some reason Christy Hemme dressed as a cheerleader is out with Eugene. Retards get all the girls .

So Eugene is in possession of Angle's gold medal. I forget why. I don't really care.

Eugene extends his hand for a handshake at the start of the match and Angle just runs over and decks him :lmao. Like SummerSlam last year, the fans HATE Euegen and cheer him getting fucking destroyed :lmao.

Unlike SS last year though, Angle isn't having to resort to cheating to get the better of a retard. Instead he's just KILLING him because he's KURT FREAKIN' ANGLE.

Angle destroys Eugene for a while, then Eugene comes back by using multiple finishers from guys like Rock and Austin, and very nearly actually fucking wins lol, but Angle is a MACHINE and makes Eugene tap out.

Super fun. Far better than the HHH match with Eugene last year.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


FAP FAP FAP DIVAS IN BIKINI'S WASHING A CAR AND GETTING ALL WET AND SOAPY BECAUSE FAP FAP FAP.


*The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton*

:mark:

They had a classic at WM, and then Orton uhhh... got "injured" for about 30 days or something :side:. But their feud picked right back up, and we are treated to a second PPV bout between these two .

Orton immediately puts a stop to Undertaker's traditional start of cornering his opponent and hitting those big rights and lefts, buy simply rolling out of the ring so he can start this match off on HIS terms. And as a result he ends up getting SLAPPED in the face that looked more deadly than most guy's punches. Still nothing on the FUNKER though!

The old HEADLOCK from Orton looks to come into play early, but Undertaker is having none of that and instead counters with a headlock of his own! Nobody, NOBODY is gonna get the better of the Dead Man!

Now Undertaker can begin to work HIS pace, slowly wearing down Orton with his typical arm work we often see from him.

Oh man, Orton basically being terrified when Undertaker drags him over into the corner for Old School is :mark:. But that FEAR allows Orton to counter VINTAGE UNDERTAKER!

Poor Orton, he keeps countering some classic Undertaker moves, but just keeps running head on into a big boot lol. Orton takes it about as well as JBL takes them... which puts him on top of the pile!

The Dead Man slows the pace down again, just taking his time to punch Orton right in the fucking face. But as cocky and arrogant as Orton is; he IS fucking talented. Undertaker makes ONE mistake, and Orton jumps on it like his life depends on it! Love the DDT in the ropes, I guess a precursor to what is now a signature move from Orton. Undertaker was sent over the ropes after missing a running knee in the corner, and as he's trying to get back in Orton just runs over to him and smashes his head into the mat with that DDT. Beautiful. He saw an opening and he TOOK IT. And he's gonna HAVE to do that in order to beat Undertaker here tonight.

Undertaker is hurting now, but as always he keeps fighting back no matter what. Love him punching the fuck out of Orton's ribs while Orton is working his knee over. Man oh man, Undertaker's selling is just tremendous even as he's trying to go on the offence. Crazy to think that one of the best sellers in the HISTORY of the business is a guy with a ZOMBIE GIMMICK who no sells shit. 

Great little sequence with Undertaker slowly building momentum, and beginning to roll out some of his signature moves... but the bad knee prevents him from gaining enough speed coming off the snake eyes, and Orton smashes right into him with a dropkick!

ORTON GOING FOR A TOMBSTONE~! But like at WM, he can't get it! Undertaker reverses and looks to land it and end the match the same way he did at WM... but Orton manages to counter this time right into his backbreaker!!!

FLYING CROSSBODY~! UNDERTAKER ROLLS THROUGH AND LANDS A FUCKING CHOKESLAM!!!

And then the match stops as some crazy fucking fan shows up, causing enough distraction to give Orton chance to recover and catch the Dead Man with an RKO! ORTON BEATS THE UNDERTAKER!!!

Of course, the fan turns out to be none other than COWBOY BOB ORTON!!!

What a fucking terrific match. Even BETTER than their WM match. Undertaker's selling is magnificent. Orton's offence is focused and awesome. He's clearly learnt from their WM match and was able to counter the Dead Man at key moments and capitalise on EVERY opportunity he could. Love it.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


*John Cena Vs Chris Jericho - WWE Championship Match*

Bah, not looking forward to this one. I've never liked the chemistry between these two. A while back a bunch of people were pimping their 2008 match, when Cena returns and wins the title. I watched it and thought it was pretty bad :lmao.

The wrestler vs the brawler... at least that's what WWE are telling us it is. And to be fair, the match IS worked like that so far. Jericho is using a headlock and a suplex and wrestling CHOPS and whatnot, while Cena is tackling Jericho and throwing bombs in his face every chance he gets. But Jericho also switches things up and throws some punches of his own and seems to get the better of Cena on a few occasions so... there goes the whole "wrestler vs brawler" story right out the window :lmao.

:lmao Cena is throwing some AWFUL punches. Made even worse by the fact this is following an UNDERTAKER match, who is arguably a top 5 puncher of all time.

:lmao at the fans cheering like crazy when Cena goes for his diving shoulder tackle and ends up going face first into the mat because Jericho moved.

Crowd adds a great atmosphere to the match with a pretty damn long "lets go Jericho/lets go Cena" chant. EVen in 05 you can clearly hear that it's the MEN chanting against Cena and the women and children chanting for Cena .

Aside from some dumb moments early on in the match, they DO stick with the "wrestler vs brawler" story, with Cena doing little more than punches and clotheslines most of the time, and Jericho out-wrestling Cena, countering shit and hitting the more flashy offence.

:lmao a "THAT WAS 3" count from the crowd following a very near fall. Aaaand then an F-U and Cena wins lol.

Match is good. Better than I remembered. Hot crowd makes the final part of the match feel really big too. Still, nothing special here whatsoever, but still likely their best match together . I'm happy.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Batista Vs JBL - No Holds Barred World Heavyweight Championship Match*

:|

Maybe the NHB stip will make this watchable. Because these 2 guys hitting each other with weapons HAS to be better than them trying to wrestle, right?

JBL was given the chance to name ANY stip he wanted for this match. And he went with NHB. Wow. For a guy as smart as JBL he really lacked creativity here. I'd have made it a "Batista instantly loses the title" match or something. But that's just me .

They waste no time battering each other at the top of the rampway and where the electrical equipment is, and only a few minutes into the match Batista is spearing JBL through the barricade. And 20 seconds later JBL IS IN CONTROL OF THE MATCH. That be some fecking bullshit.

:lmao JBL stars whipping Batista with a belt, then decides to choke him... but puts it around his CHIN by mistake... AND BATISTA HELPS JBL OUT BY MOVING THE BELT AROUND HIS NECK :lmao.

A little bit of brawling and then...

SPINEBUSTER~! BATISTA BOMB~! And Batista DOESN'T go for the cover! Because he wants to make JBL suffer.

BATISTA BOMB ON THE STEEL STEPS~! This is over.

This was far shorter than I was expecting. Gonna look it up but I think it was under 10 minutes.

Yep, 9 minutes 5 seconds according to the wikipedia.

While I definitely agree with this getting a short amount of time... it actually felt TOO rushed lol. They brawl in the crowd a little... then JBL gains control and punches Batista in the face for a bit... and then Batista wins. Still, it didn't suck, so it totally has that going for it lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Hulk Hogan*

How awesome was the first superkick to Hogan that set this match up? :mark:

HBK should have been a heel for a LOT longer after this match. He was babyface his entire return run from 02 to 2010, except for the few weeks to build this match up because Hogan didn't want to do face vs face. So if it was actually up to Shawn he would have NEVER been heel at all. Which is a fucking shame because heel HBK is sooo damn good.

Oh well, we at least have this one match to remember him by . For one night only, HBK returns to the COKE and is a complete and total prick!!! 

Fook me that initial pop for Hogan's theme. Love that it was the old REAL AMERICAN theme and not Voodo Chile, which I never thought was a good fit for Hogan.

:lmao Hogan is just nonstop making weird grunting noises for like the first 5 minutes of this match :lmao. It's almost like HHH is throwing a punch 8*D.

Total Hogan show early on, with him powering HBK around, punching him in the face and... moar powering him around lol. And I mean "total Hogan show" in terms of offence. It's a total HBK show in terms of him bumping around like a fucking goof :lmao.

HBK KEEPS BITCH SLAPPING HOGAN~! :lmao

Hogan continues to dominate until... FACE SMASH INTO THE RINGPOST~! TWICE~!

Now we have HBK targeting the head of the Hulkster, with Hogan having to use his raw power to throw HBK off him to gain some distance.

HOGAN IS BLEEDING~!

SLEEPER~!

Man, HBK's arm is fucking COVERED in Hogan's blood while applying the sleeper. 

ELBOW DROP~! MISS~! HULK UP~!

HBK COUNTERS A BIG BOOT WITH A FLYING ELBOW~!

REF BUMP~!

Heel HBK comes out to play properly here, as he looks to go for another elbow, asks the fans if they wanna see it... then basically tells them to fuck off and applies the SHARPSHOOTER instead :mark:.

ANOTHER REF BUMP~!

LOW BLOW~!

CHAIR TO THE FACE~!

ELBOW DROP~!

THE BAND IS TUNING UP~!

SWEET~! CHIN~! MUSIC~!

HOGAN KICKS OUT AND HULKS UP AND THE FANS ARE SPLOOGING ALL OVER THEMSELVES~!

THAT BIG BOOT BUMP~! :lmao

LEG DROP~!

1..2..3!!!

Man, what a fucking blast lol. I was actually quite surprised by how LITTLE Shawn actually oversold like a prick. The match has a reputation for HBK going to extreme levels of bumping... but honestly I didn't see him do ANYTHING like that except for the bump off the big boot right at the end of the match. And that bump was fucking hilarious and awesome anyway lol, so fuck the haters, if there are any .

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 17.5*​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Outside of the rating for that bad main event, I think I feel the same way more or less about Summerslam 05. Lots of decent-good matches in the undercard, but one match that is well above the others. And that's the theme of 2005 PPVs. Well that, and shitty Cena matches.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rah said:


> Is it just me, or are WWE on a roll with making shitty themes? First Cesaro, then Rollins and now that abomination for Ambrose.
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: not as bad as Naomi/Paige and the wrestlecrap booking attached.


It's not just you. CFO$ fucking sucks.

Jim Johnston needs to be doing the themes.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Meh. CFO$ also did the Real Americans' theme, which is GOAT so I can't hate too much


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam '05 is one of the bigger pure blasts of a PPV ever made. Alongside WrestleMania 22 and Survivor Series '02 at that. That show feels like 2 hours at MOST. I wouldn't go ****1/2 for Taker/Orton (CAL'S TAKER COKE), but I would go **** easily. Rest is mostly good too.

So I'll predict what's next... the day of judgment is upon us. *cough*CalisjusttooexcitedforEddie/Reyandcannotwaitanymoreminutestowatchit*cough* 8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Whenever Cal rates an Undertaker match I automatically take off 1/2* to determine what his rating would be if he wasn't Cal.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I liked the Jericho/Cena match way more than that. Recently rewatched it for a third time, and it's quickly becoming one my of my favorite "fun match that you wouldn't expect to be fun" matches.

Could someone make a list of top 5 or 10 Adam Cole matches? Preferably ones that you could easily find on sites like Youtube, DailyMotion, etc. (if those exist...haven't looked).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Why they ever changed Austin's original theme to that Disturbed pile of crap, I'll never know:


gtfo. that theme ruled despite not knowing any of the words yelled out.

----------

Agreed w/Cal on most of SS '05. Star ratings wise I'd pump up Hardy vs Edge b/c that was like the best damn thing about the year. _(ok tied w/Taker vs Orton. Eddie vs Mysterio for the first half was wonderful, duh. But the second half...)_ MORE STARS MAKES IT LOOK BETTER. Ladder is what it is, but I've lessened on it over the years. Don't care for Angle vs Eugene sprint thingy either. Always liked Hogan vs Michaels, so I support the...support. It's long, but fun. Always seems to roll smoothly. Michaels oversell was only super noticeable on the big boot, like it was said. Everything else isn't anything that Shawn hasn't done in the past. Such as the rope groin spot.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rey says in his book that the whole custody of Domenick thing was Eddies idea, that Eddie liked the Sandman/Raven angle in ECW so he wanted to do it in the WWE.

Ratings for SS 2005:

Jordan/Benoit: *
Edge/Hardy: ***1/2
Eddie/Rey: ****
Taker/Orton: ****
Angle/Eugene: **1/2
JBL/Batista: **
Jericho/Cena: ****
HBK/Hogan: ****

That's 5 matches total that are really good, 4 of which are GREAT. So yea, I liked it all quite a bit more than you, except for Taker/Orton but we already know why that rating is as high as it is 

Hayley: you are out of your ever loving mind if you think that piece of shit Distrubed remix can even compare with Austin's original, classic theme. Come on now, that theme and entrance from Austin is just iconic, I nearly wanted to cry when they changed it up. Imagine Taker coming out to a Papa Roach remix of the "Funeral Dirge". That's how blasphemous Austin coming out to any other theme is to me.


P.s. Cal did you crack up when Cole was talking during the introductions to the Eddie/Rey match and said "Eddie Guerrero has admitted he is addicted to manipulation"? I don't know why that just made be smile.

Pps. Cal you should add the 6/23/05 SD match to your 2005 reviews at one point, like for GAB where all the other matches blow except for Eddie/Rey. I just want to see your thoughts on that classic, and it's such an integral part of their feud


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You could have just stuck w/reality and said Undertaker actually used Kid Rock for his entrance theme in '00. That was bad enough. But nah, always going to love that theme for Austin. Pumps me up every time it hit. Not like I compared it or anything. Even if I did, I'd take the Disturbed track over it. Hits ya harder. I like that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> You could have just stuck w/reality and said Undertaker actually used Kid Rock for his entrance theme in '00. That was bad enough. But nah, always going to love that theme for Austin. Pumps me up every time it hit. Not like I compared it or anything. Even if I did, I'd take the Disturbed track over it. Hits ya harder. I like that.



Fair enough. I actually didn't mind Taker coming out to "American Badass" by Kid Rock during that time as much as I HATED him coming out to Limp Bizkit. I don't like either bands, but man that just tore me up. And I'm a BIG fan of AB-era Taker, I just couldn't stomach Fred Durst's corny ass voice and lyrics accompanying one of my favorite guys ever. 

The reason I hate the Disturbed theme so much is because I feel it DIDNT hit nearly as hard as the original. So obviously we just have a difference of opinion which is fine. I just loved the funk inspired bass line on the original, when you combine that riff with Austin's pissed off, aggressive strut to the ring with his head bobbing, I mean that was just iconic to me. As much as Takers slow march to the ring, even.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can live w/Rollin b/c it got the fans to pop that bit more for Taker. They suck, but I can live. More than Kid Rock at least. I dunno. Couldn't expect Taker to be out there w/the Ministry theme at that time. Although, IF ONLY.

Just noticed your edit where you don't give Benoit vs Jordan from GAB any credit. That's a real good match right there. This is lost on too many people.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Disturbed theme is fucking incredible. You could have given that theme to Funaki, and he would have become a main eventer overnight.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Funaki's theme aka Taka/Kaientai theme ruled too, tbhayley.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

I think we can all agree that Disturbed is inferior compared to this: 






BY MILES.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I can live w/Rollin b/c it got the fans to pop that bit more for Taker. They suck, but I can live. More than Kid Rock at least. I dunno. Couldn't expect Taker to be out there w/the Ministry theme at that time. Although, IF ONLY.
> 
> Just noticed your edit where you don't give Benoit vs Jordan from GAB any credit. That's a real good match right there. This is lost on too many people.



I watched it once and couldn't really get into it. I mean it doesn't blow like I said in that post, but I didn't remember especially liking it, either. Definitely Jordan's best match ever which is just sad. Maybe I'll give it another try tonight I've got NOTHING else to watch. I've had quite the voracious appetite for pro graps recently. I powered through my entire "to watch" list so now ive just been googling "Stan Hansen vs" and "Adam Cole vs" to try and find random matches from those two guys who I never really saw much from until now.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> So I'll predict what's next... the day of judgment is upon us. *cough*CalisjusttooexcitedforEddie/Reyandcannotwaitanymoreminutestowatchit*cough* 8*D


Actually, the next show I'll be rambling about is rather... SHOCKING. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've never watched any of the Flair/Luger matches, which ones are the best?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starrcade 1988, but you honestly couldnt go wrong w/ ANY and I truly mean any of them, try the Wrestlewar, GAB and Clash one as well


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Saint Dick said:


> Whenever Cal rates an Undertaker match I automatically take off 1/2* to determine what his rating would be if he wasn't Cal.


I take off like *3/4. 



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've never watched any of the Flair/Luger matches, which ones are the best?


Starrcade 88, then WrestleWar 90, then...IDK. The other ones from 1988.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Guy LeDouche said:


> I think we can all agree that Disturbed is inferior compared to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark:



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I watched it once and couldn't really get into it. I mean it doesn't blow like I said in that post, but I didn't remember especially liking it, either. Definitely Jordan's best match ever which is just sad. Maybe I'll give it another try tonight I've got NOTHING else to watch. I've had quite the voracious appetite for pro graps recently. I powered through my entire "to watch" list so now ive just been googling "Stan Hansen vs" and "Adam Cole vs" to try and find random matches from those two guys who I never really saw much from until now.


I actually kind of like Jordan. He's got some pretty good punches and there really isn't anything about him that ever strikes me as "bad". Even w/the bi-sexual exotico gimmick in TNA I was liking him more than most of the roster.

As for your other stuff:











I hope the Cole match holds up. Haven't seen it in a bit. But for now, it'-s a strong rec. Cole is like the one guy to contain O'Reilly's crumminess.

oh dammit. I sent you a link for Misawa vs Williams. Not anything Hansen related. My bad. Well, watch the Dr. Death match anyways. It's perfect.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've never watched any of the Flair/Luger matches, which ones are the best?


I'd say watch em all except for the Steel Cage from Capital Combat. But def Starrcade '88 is the fabulous affair. Well, WrestleWar '90 is very close too.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Hansen against Funk. 14/04



LilOlMe said:


> Could someone make a list of top 5 or 10 Adam Cole matches? Preferably ones that you could easily find on sites like Youtube, DailyMotion, etc. (if those exist...haven't looked).



V Callihan (PWG Is Your Body Ready)


That's all you need to know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You don't lie.

omg how I love that match to bits. I should have rec'ed that in my last post, but I know it isn't online so I went w/the obvious pick.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

It's no longer online?! The fuck, I'll go put it up... sometime when I'm sober.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Rah said:


> Hansen against Funk. 14/04
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you send the link for the Cole vs. Callihan match cause I can't find it anywhere. Hey is there BOLA 2012 match good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Short, but sweet. I think. Unless I'm getting that mixed up w/Cole vs Generico. All the Cole vs Callihan matches are worth a look minus their match from Cage of Death. That one just didn't click as well. And had that stupid "shit" spot.

and please do Rah. Please.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Short, but sweet. I think. Unless I'm getting that mixed up w/Cole vs Generico. All the Cole vs Callihan matches are worth a look minus their match from Cage of Death. That one just didn't click as well. And had that stupid "shit" spot.
> 
> and please do Rah. Please.


Damm I can't find any Adam Cole vs Sami Callihan matches on the Internet damm and too for once I'm trying to find Adam Cole matches.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley: Flux beat you to the punch, that Kyle O'Reilly/Cole match is what sent me on the quest for more Cole. Flux sent me a bunch of matches one time, one of them being that match and another being Sabin/Joe, and they just rocked my world. Oh, and MY WORD, does Cole really get his teeth kicked out in that match???! That was downright VICIOUS. I'd never seen a single Cole bout until watching that one, but I've been searching for stuff from him and Hansen for most of the past two days. He's so friggin good it's scary, another totally natural baby face. I wonder how long it'll be before WWE snatches him up? On the surface it would appear he's pretty much everything they look for in a wrestler.

I'm gonna watch that other match you sent though, thank you 

My favorite moment in that Cole/O'Reilly match was when Cole was on his knees, face all bloody, firing up and shaking his head at the ringside doctor, refusing to let them stop the bout. The man just has a true sense of the moment.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Your not gonna find any PWG matches online outside of torrents or actually buying the DVD

But the Cole/Calihan IM match is so fucking awesome


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fuck the internet sometimes, I'm starting to hate dailymotion w/ a passion just lags and does absolutely nothing for me

Came in here for :

1) Plug that Kidd/Kaval FCW match, its awesome kidd, should have stuck to that format instead of trying to have an 30 min classic w/ Neville @ takeover :kobe9

2) if someone could link that Sabin/Joe match pls


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thoughts on Williams vs Misawa

(I loved that match so much I'm not even capable of speaking in coherent sentences, I'll just use bullet points)

-the first 5 minutes might be the best opening to any match I've seen. No joke. Perfection.

-Williams looked like he might be close to being knocked unconscious when Misawa struck him on the top of the head outside the ring

-Williams diving forearm smash is just unbelievable. If I took one of those they'd have to hire a search party to find my missing jaw.

-Tiger Driver->Kick out at 1?!?! :mark: :mark:

-This is truly what I want to see when I dial up a heavyweight match from Japan. It's picture perfect.

-Yoshiaki Yatsu might be the most fun name ever to say. I don't know why I just thought of this. Just try it out. It's fun. If I ever have a son, his name is going to be Yoshiaki Yatsu Jackson.

-I just browsed Meltzers ratings from this year, he doesn't even list it as one of the 30 best matches of the year. Meltzer should be committed and his writing privileges revoked. Permanently.

-The sequence where Misawa gets dropped FACE FUCKING FIRST onto the turnbuckle (he takes it like a total champ) then gets dropped RIGHT ON THE TOP OF HIS FUCKING HEAD with a German suplex from Williams made me spit cranberry red bull on my brand new jeans. Hayley you owe me a new pair of jeans.

-The finishing stretch is as good as the opening stretch, a must for any match to be considered truly great in my book.

-This is the best Steve Williams singles match I've ever seen.

-One thousand stars. 


Whew. Glad I got all that out. Watch that match folks, you won't be sorry. It starts around the 30 minute mark of that video and ends around the 1 hour mark.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How is Mysterio/Eddie from WM21 bad? I just watched and found it to be a awesome and fun-personified sprint. Nothing on the level of their later matches in the year, but I think a solid ***1/2 is where it stands. Hate me, cal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Hayley: Flux beat you to the punch, that Kyle O'Reilly/Cole match is what sent me on the quest for more Cole. Flux sent me a bunch of matches one time, one of them being that match and another being Sabin/Joe, and they just rocked my world. Oh, and MY WORD, does Cole really get his teeth kicked out in that match???! That was downright VICIOUS. I'd never seen a single Cole bout until watching that one, but I've been searching for stuff from him and Hansen for most of the past two days. He's so friggin good it's scary, another totally natural baby face. I wonder how long it'll be before WWE snatches him up? On the surface it would appear he's pretty much everything they look for in a wrestler.
> 
> I'm gonna watch that other match you sent though, thank you
> 
> My favorite moment in that Cole/O'Reilly match was when Cole was on his knees, face all bloody, firing up and shaking his head at the ringside doctor, refusing to let them stop the bout. The man just has a true sense of the moment.


Cole def padded the match to make it click. O'Reilly is just generally awful w/the way he carries himself, but Cole keeps on chugging to make it work. It's of the mentality that O'Reilly is annoying b/c he actually does MMA training so he works the match like he knows what to do & then Cole is the cat out of his element but w/the mega will to not quit. Even after getting his teeth knocked out. Which was totally the turning point for the match becoming "oh shit" kind of stuff.

Cole is now a heel most places which was kind of needed as his babyface stuff was starting to wear thin around some promotions. But seeing that match makes me miss his work while as an underdog. He's on top these days, so it makes all the sense in the world by context. He's super young so he has plenty of time to stick around on the indies for a spell or two more & then head on over to WWE later.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thoughts on Williams vs Misawa
> 
> (I loved that match so much I'm not even capable of speaking in coherent sentences, I'll just use bullet points)
> 
> ...


I gave you the match as a rec, that trumps having to purchase apparel. :sansa

iirc Meltzer gave it something like ****1/4* or of that sort. Oh that Dave. Not enough moonsaults off of cages. I know it is only '97, but gah. Got to use the joke every time. All irrelevant as it is. Perfection for me forever.

'-----------

Ok. Originally came in here to plug the Handicap main event from Smackdown tonight. It ruled. Largely b/c of the way Reigns was held off until the very end to have that EXPLOSION for the hot tag. Dude is picking up so much momentum right now. Combine that w/everyone else in the match killing it w/their facial reactions & a well laid out match & boosh. Real great stuff. Sheamus'- face getting 500x more pissed whenever Cesaro was beating on him was phenomenal. Orton continuously taunting Reigns while on the apron & then running off when he got the hot tag was splendid. Cena tried in this & it showed. Made up for the bogus match vs Kane on RAW. Just a lot of real great stuff mixed in here. Oh and I can'-t forget about Bray kneeling underneath the championships while looking up w/a big smile. Loved that. Too much fun right here.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> How is Mysterio/Eddie from WM21 bad? I just watched and found it to be a awesome and fun-personified sprint. Nothing on the level of their later matches in the year, but I think a solid ***1/2 is where it stands. Hate me, cal.



I give it around ***, it's just barely "good". But for an Eddie/Rey match?? It's pretty bad. Those two are pretty much a guaranteed ****+ match every time they step in the ring together for more than 10 minutes. It just doesn't have any fire, no real character, or flow. A lot of it is because Rey's mask was fucked so he spent the entire match adjusting it instead of thinking about the match. It just seems like they are running through a few sequences without any coherent purpose, which is confusing since it's an Eddie Guerrero match and that's usually never a problem for him.

For a better face/face Eddie/Rey match, check out the one they had in 2004 on SD right after WM 20. They also had one in January of 2005 that is apparently pretty good but I've never seen it.

Eddie and Rey are at their best when Eddie is a heel and Rey is a face. The dynamic is just 1000000 times better that way. Their characters fit each other so well it's like divine providence. God created Eddie Guerrero to wrestle Rey Mysterio, and visa versa.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> How is Mysterio/Eddie from WM21 bad? I just watched and found it to be a awesome and fun-personified sprint. Nothing on the level of their later matches in the year, but I think a solid ***1/2 is where it stands. Hate me, cal.


I didn't like it for the exact opposite reason that you liked it: it wasn't a sprint. I kept waiting for them to kick it to the next level, but they never did. Instead, I thought it was really boring and dragged like hell. Didn't help that Rey kept fidgeting with his mask. The real gem in their series is the January 2005 match.

Misawa/Williams is easily Dr. Death's best match. I didn't like the kick-out at one, but that's about it. Glorious. And Cjack, you're gonna have lots of fun watching Adam Cole this past year. Dude can play face or heel at a top level.

Where did this whole notion of Kidd/Neville being a boring "technical" match come from? The early matwork actually had purpose and the match was loads of fun with the high-flying that you guys eager for. Face it, Tyson Kidd rules. As does Kalisto and his bout with Tyler Breeze.

All Flair/Luger matches are excellent, and this is coming from a guy that loathes Luger. The only problem is that all of them have terrible endings. But that's inconclusive Flair title matches for you. I would actually go chronologically with their series.

Smackdown was pretty fun this week. Ambrose/Rollins feud rules. Piper/Goldust WM 12 reference. Ziggler/Barrett was good. Roman Reigns supreme. Ambrose continues to be the second best wrestler in the world today. Although I enjoyed 2/3 of RAW this past week, Smackdown's focus on wrestling and featuring the midcard makes it the far superior show.

Done with 1996. Should have a review out there soon of either 1996, 2000, or 2005. And then it's off to 2001 :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Are we just randomly recommending matches in here now?  If so, this is one of my favorites. Such a badass performances by Dick Slater with an eye patch.






Someone mention Steve Williams? Here's a doozy (part 2 on youtube):


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eddie vs Mysterio from WM is quite obviously bad. Things were off & there wasn't any semblance of well, anything in it.

and Neville vs Kidd has been divisive from the night it happened. Hated that tripe.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I took the story as Eddie dishing out the entirety of his arsenal to keep Mysterio down but due to Mysterio's never back down mentality, he comes up short every time and this further frustrates Eddie and brings fourth the heel turn later. The crowd was also really into it and there was a lot of stiffness in the match, tilt-a-whirl backbreaker specifically made me cringe, you could feel the impact and moves like those are kind of building the tension between the two, Mysterio trying to one up his opponent in a pure contest while Eddie breaks that unwritten rule and tries to hurt him. Funnyfaces, now that I think about it, 'sprint' is a bad word to describe the match, a tension builder/feud advancer is probably better given the content of the match which is methodical at times, but that goes in line with it being a furthering match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Rey vs. Eddie is probably their only match against each other (I can think of) that I don't like. It sucks even more because if those two would've torn the house down like they would have 99/100 times, then the undercard of WM21 would've been GOAT.

And yes, I like Angle vs. HBK :side:


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

PGSucks said:


> And yes, I like Angle vs. HBK :side:


Why not? It's a great five star match by two of the GOATs


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I give it around ***, it's just barely "good". But for an Eddie/Rey match?? It's pretty bad. Those two are pretty much a guaranteed ****+ match every time they step in the ring together for more than 10 minutes. It just doesn't have any fire, no real character, or flow. A lot of it is because Rey's mask was fucked so he spent the entire match adjusting it instead of thinking about the match. It just seems like they are running through a few sequences without any coherent purpose, which is confusing since it's an Eddie Guerrero match and that's usually never a problem for him.
> 
> For a better face/face Eddie/Rey match, check out the one they had in 2004 on SD right after WM 20. They also had one in January of 2005 that is apparently pretty good but I've never seen it.
> 
> Eddie and Rey are at their best when Eddie is a heel and Rey is a face. The dynamic is just 1000000 times better that way. Their characters fit each other so well it's like divine providence. God created Eddie Guerrero to wrestle Rey Mysterio, and visa versa.


This was the Jan 05 Eddie/Rey:

http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/xjkh4n_rey-mysterio-vs-eddie-guerrero-smackdown-1-6-2005_sport

It is indeed pretty good - **** I'd give it because I'm assuming w/out the commerical break (and judging by the recaps) it would add the extra 1/4* There's very few pairings in history that are as regularly exciting as those two.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only face vs face pairing between those two I really love is their WWE Championship match. January match is good, but nothing I'd dub great.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

But that _classic_ Masters/McIntyre from Superstars, though?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

BOTH OF EM

:mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I really enjoyed that 4 on 3 on SD and while it wasn't a masterpiece, it was still a really fun match that will go on my recent works to rewatch list. Cena's selling was decent and at times good which since cementing himself is increasingly rare; Bray and Sheamus' little section continued their stiff as hell slugfests (Sheamus sure can bring out a different side in guys albeit Bray usually works snug); several subtlties including Cena almost getting Reigns in but Orton slithering to the other side of the ring to cut him off and then when Cena was trying to go to his corner Orton tried to grab his foot from the apron to stop him but was just out of reach or even Cesaro throwing his partner into the ring or that distrust between Sheamus and Reigns and on the other side everyone with Orton. Hell, there were even some nice spots like that delayed supex from Cesaro or that landed flush enzuguri from Rio. In the big picture, everyone filled in their roles well and Reigns did what he has proven to do best and be the short burst, high impact closer. All in all a fun match worth a rewatch. I also noticed Bray shouting instructions/cheering from the apron and being the most energetic of the group from the apron. Perhaps he picked that up from Rollins.

Edit: been rewatching some work from the Sheepherders and while they are drown in an era prevelant with historically innovative tag teams, these guys were solid in their own right. Certainly not top tier, but perhaps an underrated team.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Masters/McIntyre Superstars mentioned :mark:
The 2011 match especially :mark: :mark: :mark:



StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Why not? It's a great five star match by two of the GOATs


I guess you don't really know this thread, because here, Angle/Michaels is one of many absolutely HATED matches that get good flack by others.

I personally really enjoyed it because of the accidental psychology factor - Angle used inumerous suplexes and Shawn had a serious back injury before so it plays out on something, even if Shawn kipping up kind of neglected it but still - making the whole thing more bearable than it actually was. Pretty much the same reasons why Cal loved it so much himself.

But you'll find people that hate that match a lot here. Same goes for just a multitude of Kurt Angle matches. Which I personally agree with. So if you wanna start hanging out here, you better get used to that :lol


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

ROH: End of SUMMER OF PUNK 
CM Punk(c) vs James Gibson vs Samoa Joe vs Christopher Daniels
****

60 minute time limit. Punk only has to survive. All 4 wrestlers come out to huge pops. The match starts off with Punk vs Joe but Punk tags in Gibson. Then Punk tags himself back in via Joe to square off with Gibson. Classic heel Punk lol. 

Daniels eventually tags himself in via Gibson. Gibson gets pissed. Daniels and Punk square off, quick legit holds, reverse, reverse, crowd goes crazy! Awesome!

The crowd wants Joe so Daniels tags him in. Punk doesnt wanna fight Joe. Joe slams Punk. Crowd is fired up!

Halfway into the match Punk is really doing a number on Daniels. Daniels tags in Gibson. Gibson and Punk go at it. Punk is outside and Gibson flies over the top ropes onto Punk. Awesome! Daniels flies over the top ropes crashing into Gibson and Punk. Beautiful. Joe is amping up the crowd. He runs and dives thru the ropes crashing into the others. HOLY SHIT! Gibson takes a solid chairshot to the head from Punk. Ouch. Busted open. He is out cold. He doesnt know where he is. He cant even get up. The referees help him backstage.

Punk vs Daniels now. Punk lands a moonsault. Daniels lands a moonsault. Punk gets knocked out, he chills outside to catch his breath. Joe puts Daniels in a hold. The crowd screams PLEASE DONT TAP PLEASE DONT TAP LETS GO DANIELS. Lol they really love Daniels. Daniels doesnt tap but he passes out. Daniels is pretty awesome in ROH. I dont like him in TNA bc of his stupid gimmick.

Punk sneaks up on Joe. Daniels is pissed so he attacks Punk. He tries to kick Punk in the head but Punk ducks and Daniels connects with Joe, which knocks him out. Punk pins Joe 1-2-3! Joe is pissed at Daniels so they start brawling outside. It looks like the match is over, but wait, Gibson is back! He is stumbling and Punk is kicking his ass.

The crowd is chanting. LETS GO GIBSON LETS GO PUNK LETS GO GIBSON LETS GO PUNK! Punk takes Gibson on the turnbuckle for a Pepsi plunge, but Gibson reverses it into a double underhook powerbomb with crazy elevation. 1-2-3! GIBSON WINS THE TITLE! The crowd goes INSANE. What a match!!! Punk's first and only reign comes to an end. The other talent come to the ring to celebrate with Gibson, while Punk is still flat on the mat. LOL. What a beautiful performance. This match had great psychology from all performers, even the referee. Great selling too. Very emotional stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upload from me. The 'Funker':

*Terry Funk vs Bruce Waca (1981) (Florida)*



Terry Funk pummels a Florida jobber in a cage to a bloody mess, 
and then cuts an insane promo on Dusty Rhodes, while slamming his head into a cage. 
Also includes classic Gordon Solie indignation.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thoughts on Williams vs Misawa
> 
> (I loved that match so much I'm not even capable of speaking in coherent sentences, I'll just use bullet points)
> 
> ...


My 1994 MOTY, it's even better than the famous 6/3. 


Now watch this, trust your Andre/Hogan lovin Cheesemo:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

he's talking about 3/1/97. Not 7/28/94.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> he's talking about 3/1/97. Not 7/28/94.


Ha, you see what happens Larry, you see what happens? Half-assed reading FTW.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Doesn't mean the praise has to be negated tho :sansa


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another upload for anyone who cares: 

*Chris Benoit & Dean Malenko vs Sabu & Taz (ECW 02.25.1995)*

x1zy2li

I may up a Andre match from Japan in 1972 when i cba.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Which Andre match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Which Andre match?


Andre the Giant vs Strong Kobayashi (Japan 05.06.1972)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It's already on youtube  It's also incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOOyxdEHZKU


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, I found this comment on YouTube, below a video review of Vengeance 2005:

"John Cena fans = Child Molesters, Pedophiles, Rapist, Stalkers, if the're married their wives are cheating on them, their kids act like they don't know their dad, losers, virgins, queers, Child Abusers, Crack Heads, Meth Heads, Heroin addicts, suicidal, Bums, Ugly, small penises, Fat, slow, stupid, retards, dumb, "Speacial", mentally challenged, stink, feminine"

I didn't change a thing from there. And this was posted a few days ago. Shows the world that somethings are never going to change _(then again, currently the product kinda sucks so I could see why)_ :lol


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Nah, John Cena is a saint.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> It's already on youtube  It's also incredible.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOOyxdEHZKU


 Cool, saved me some time. Listening to Vader now on Austin's podcast. Great stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Nah, John Cena is a saint.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

House show upload:

*Steve Austin vs Shawn Michaels (House Show Handheld - Stockton) (01.04.1997)*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> My 1994 MOTY, it's even better than the famous 6/3.
> 
> 
> Now watch this, trust your Andre/Hogan lovin Cheesemo:


Whew, what a bad ass little match. Never heard of either guy, but they really had a corker of a match. My favorite sequence was the sit out power bomb from the corner-->triangle choke--->leg bar. That was just brilliantly executed. Thanks for the recommendation I would have never in a million years seen that otherwise 



The Hitman said:


> Upload from me. The 'Funker':
> 
> *Terry Funk vs Bruce Waca (1981) (Florida)*
> 
> ...



Watching this now :mark: :mark:


Earlier this morning I watched Samoa Joe/Kobashi for the first time. My word, this was UN-BE-LIEVABLE. The crowd, the pacing, the INTENSITY. It's a serious challenger for Danielson/McGuinness as my new favorite ROH match. I loved that they chose not to do commentary for it. Just listening to the crowd and the two dudes wrestle was all I needed to hear. The story was completely obvious, no commentary was needed to get the point across. As good as Joe was in that math, and believe me he was incredible, Kobashi just MADE it with his mannerisms and character. This match got so much hype that I was afraid when I finally saw it, it couldn't possibly live up to it. Instead, it exceeded the hype. Unreal.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Would I be right in saying Rock vs Mankind 'I Quit' is the A Clockwork Orange of WWE matches, sickeningly grand? ****3/4 for both.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Whew, what a bad ass little match. Never heard of either guy, but they really had a corker of a match. My favorite sequence was the sit out power bomb from the corner-->triangle choke--->leg bar. That was just brilliantly executed. Thanks for the recommendation I would have never in a million years seen that otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, that and the Do Fixer/Blood Generation from March of '06 are probably my two favorite ROH matches (for different reasons of course). There's a great story about how when Joe and Kobashi were working out the match Kobashi was going to approach it very old-school foreign heel style, and Joe had to stop him and be like "You're Kobashi: You - Big Babyface." And so they approached it differently as sort of a "glory days" Kobashi from his prime, with Joe just eating ALL of the classic Kobashi stuff. Of course, the crowd did not disappoint. You can see a genuine surprise and appreciation on Kobashi's face when he comes out - I don't think he knew how well he would be received, and just feel the adrenaline start to course within him - now, the pressure is on *him* to live up to his reception. That Kobashi _Standard._ Joe is great - gassed as all hell, purple, and dry-heaving by the end of it - and is his pinnacle moment in the company. No one else could've pulled that match out in the company at that time (or any time) ***** All Day.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Joe/Kobashi is how you do a huge dream match. When you watch it, you instantly get reminded what pro-graps is all about - charaters, stories, emotions. Just like in music, movies or books, the content doesn't have to be deep, complicated or pretentious, as long as it draws emotion.

Oh, and everybody should watch Hechicero/Cavernario from CMLL 6/20.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Steve Austin & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Triple H (Handheld House Show) (28.01.2001) (Philadelphia)*



Funnyfaces asked for something from 2001, upped this ages ago. Will try and upload at least one Bret/Owen house show match tomorrow (not the Ironman one).


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Whew, what a bad ass little match. Never heard of either guy, but they really had a corker of a match. My favorite sequence was the sit out power bomb from the corner-->triangle choke--->leg bar. That was just brilliantly executed. Thanks for the recommendation I would have never in a million years seen that otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Read my ROH thread and look at my ratings list in my sig, that'll lead you in the right direction.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

ATF said:


> I guess you don't really know this thread, because here, Angle/Michaels is one of many absolutely HATED matches that get good flack by others.
> 
> I personally really enjoyed it because of the accidental psychology factor - Angle used inumerous suplexes and Shawn had a serious back injury before so it plays out on something, even if Shawn kipping up kind of neglected it but still - making the whole thing more bearable than it actually was. Pretty much the same reasons why Cal loved it so much himself.
> 
> But you'll find people that hate that match a lot here. Same goes for just a multitude of Kurt Angle matches. Which I personally agree with. So if you wanna start hanging out here, you better get used to that :lol


I'm ok with that. Kurt Angle is one of the GOATs. There's a word for people that don't like him. That is, "hater". The thing I hate most about that match is the angle slam that threw HBK into the post "back first" except when they replay it (twice, mind you), HBK actually hits his hip/butt/possibly upper leg on it which makes it really stupid.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Angle/HBK WM is just a bad bland match, don't see how anyone can like it or how it can be so heralded. I like Angle, mind you, so I don't think I would be constituted as a hater.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Hater! What's bland about it? Angle wants to prove he's the best. HBK wants to prove he isn't a dinosaur. It's the classic lion vs. hawk situation and the hawk wins.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just thought the offense was bland and everything about the match was boring as shit, just my opinion 

oh and btw you might want to stop acting like a fucking 10 year old kid, idiot


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

wow my response really warranted a red rep that said "fuck you"? like i insulted you or something. i don't think i'm the one that needs to get a grip and grow up. so right back at you, bro. fuck you.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> wow my response really warranted a red rep that said "fuck you"? like i insulted you or something. i don't think i'm the one that needs to get a grip and grow up. so right back at you, bro. fuck you.


We all need to calm down guys we need to talk other HBK and Angle matches not the infamous series of matches on this forum.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I remember when Angle/HBK was praised, but it was so long ago.

I should probably refresh myself and watch it again on the network, cause I seriously haven't watched it since WM21.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:vader on the :austin2 podcast? :mark: I will have to listen to that one. Awwwwww :vader :mark: :mark: 

I actually liked :angle2 and :hbk2 at WM21. I don't think it's a 5 star classic but I enjoy it. 



The Hitman said:


> *Steve Austin & The Rock vs Chris Benoit & Triple H (Handheld House Show) (28.01.2001) (Philadelphia)*
> 
> 
> 
> Funnyfaces asked for something from 2001, upped this ages ago. Will try and upload at least one Bret/Owen house show match tomorrow (not the Ironman one).


Wow interesting to see two guys who main evented mania against each other VS two guys who main evented mania against each other. 

I haven't seen that Iron Man match with Bret and wen is it any good? I know a Bret/Flair Iron Man match exists on you tube land but haven't made time to watch that either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets get this back on track now, k?






Better.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

What do you guys think about Cena/Wyatt LMS?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One of the worst things seen this year.

and their WM match was my MOTN.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

I think LMS is fun, not a classic by any means, but a fun match. 

As much as I want to like their WM match, after 3 watches I just don't enjoy it, it never clicks for me personally.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RATED-RKO1991 said:


> What do you guys think about Cena/Wyatt LMS?


If you don't care about selling and whatnot, it's a fun, chaotic fight.

Otherwise, it's a mess.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Maybe we can talk about Chris Benoit and his greatest matches. #1, of course, is vs. Angle at Royal Rumble 03 but can anybody put up a list of his top 25 matches?

vs. Sasuke was ok if you're into that kind of thing.
vs. Angle at Unforgiven 02 is one of the best ever and up with their RR match
vs. Eddie in any of their 5-12 minute WCW matches were gold.
vs. MVP
vs. Malenko at Hog Wild 99
w/Jericho vs. TMPT
vs. Austin on RAW and SD in 5/01
vs. Angle at WM 17
vs. Orton sometime

Did he ever face Ultimo Dragon?


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

vs. Jericho @ Rumble 2001
with Angle vs. Mysterio/Edge at No Mercy 2002
with Jericho vs. Austin/HHH on RAW 2001
vs. HBK & HHH at WrestleMania XX
vs. Austin on Smackdown! 2001

some favourites off the top of my head



> vs. Orton sometime


Don't know if I'd include either of these on a Top 25 set, and if I did, they'd be somewhere near the bottom. SummerSlam 2004 and 01/06 Street Fight are both around ****, though. Speaks to the quality of Benoit's catalogue of matches.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

It's a shame we never got that Benoit/Punk match



Ruiner87 said:


> vs. Jericho @ Rumble 2001
> with Angle vs. Mysterio/Edge at No Mercy 2002
> with Jericho vs. Austin/HHH on RAW 2001
> vs. HBK & HHH at WrestleMania XX
> ...


I'd throw TLC III on here too


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Ruiner87 said:


> Speaks to the quality of Benoit's catalogue of matches.


That's why I said 25 and not 10. Dude was incredible.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Did Benoit and Taker ever have a match on TV? If so how is it?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Maybe we can talk about Chris Benoit and his greatest matches. *#1, of course, is vs. Angle at Royal Rumble 03 *but can anybody put up a list of his top 25 matches?


Are you intentionally trying to piss ATF off? 

Anyways, I actually have Orton/Benoit Street Fight in the top 5 of each man's respective career, incredible and had that authentic hatred feel which few parings do. Other four would probably be MITB 1 (for his performance alone), Benoit/Brock, Benoit/Jericho and Triple Threat for WHC.

Aye, which did y'all prefer between the three- Benoit/Triple H (NM 2000), Benoit/Rock (FL 2000) or Benoit/Michaels (RAW 2004)?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Rock >>>


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao StuckInHell4-Life is probably gonna say that Bret/Shawn WM 12 was amazing, thus creating more enemies here. Dude can't catch a break.

Benoit/Rock FL 2000 is the best out of the three, but I love the Showdown in the Sun. Benoit and Rock had like ten singles matches in 2000. All of them ruled even if they were pretty much all LOLROCKWINS.

Thanks zep for the upload. There is a really good tag match between Michaels/Taker and Goldust/Mankind from a 96 house show that is worth looking into. Shawn goes crazy! Even did a no hands plancha over the rope!

But listen to Cody and watch that Luke Gallows match. And it means something when I agree with him. But Luke Gallows is that dude.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

NM00>FL00>Michaels match

Fully Loaded is a very close second though.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

25 Benoit singles:

v. Liger 8/19/90
v. Liger 2/10/92
v. Scorpio SuperBrawl III
v. Eddie 10/16/95
v. Eddie 6/11/96
v. Sullivan GAB 96
v. Meng Slamboree 97
v. DDP SuperBrawl 98
v. Finlay Slamboree 98
v. Finlay 6/15/98
v. Sting 9/20/99
v. Regal 5/25/00
v. Austin 11/20/00
v. Austin 5/28/01
v. Austin 5/31/01
v. Lesnar 12/4/03
v. Orton 8/16/04
v. Regal 7/16/05
v. Regal 10/2/05
v. Orton 1/13/06
v. Finlay 5/5/06
v. Finlay Judgment Day 06
v. Regal No Mercy 06
v. Finlay 11/24/06
v. Edge 6/8/07

Maybe not a real top 25 but whatever, those are the 25 I probably like the most right now. I mean I wouldn't say all of these are flat out better than his best match with Kane or HHH but I think I'd take these 25 to a desert island. Though I didn't include really, really short matches that I would no doubt take (v. Eddie 10/20/97, as an e.g.). Admittedly didn't put the world's most thought into it, and probably forgot a bunch. Haven't seen the J-Cup 94 matches or Regal match from 95 is ages, so I didn't list them. They should be there, I'm guessing. Haven't seen the Jericho ladder match in years either but I'm less positive I'll still really like that. There's other stuff I thought was good but haven't seen in a billion years like Vengeance 03 with Eddie, every match with Jericho I liked in 2000, Michaels 5/3/04, Sid match where he wins the title, MVP feud...


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Watched that match vs. Scorpio not to long ago. That was superb. Thought it was going to be cheesy and go the time limit but Scorpio pulling it off with one second left was a nice touch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only MVP PPV match vs Benoit I dig is WM. Which I really, really like. I'm talking a lot. Other two were too flat. More MVP dictating pace rather than making it the game of MVP catching Benoit off guard like at Mania. Would need to see their TV matches again to know how I feel.

I'd tell you Jheri that the match vs Sasuke holds up extremely well, but I'll just wait until you see it again. It's Benoit. There's only so much out there that isn't worth seeing. And those were b/c he blended w/an opponent he tried to cater to. Rather than trying to elevate. IE why matches vs Kane were strong & stuff vs Malenko or Triple H on PPV were crappy. I could have said Angle here, but meh. We know.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

How about good Benoit matches from Japan? We all know the Sasuke one. The Liger match from 8/90 where Benoit wins the strap is good and the mask vs. title rematch is good as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The real undiscovered gems are Benoit's matches in Mexico. I still can't find that one match he had with Villano III that was among the best of Benoit's career. From what I've read and somewhat seen, Benoit didn't exactly fit in seamlessly with the lucha style, but when he was able to wrestle a match more akin to his style, they were really really good.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I'm talking to some other fans over text, all of them saying WMXXX sucked and HHH-Bryan sucked. Someone save me.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I wouldn't say sucked but they're not the best matches around at least. Especially Danielson vs H.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The real undiscovered gems are Benoit's matches in Mexico. I still can't find that one match he had with Villano III that was among the best of Benoit's career. From what I've read and somewhat seen, Benoit didn't exactly fit in seamlessly with the lucha style, but when he was able to wrestle a match more akin to his style, they were really really good.


Is this it?

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2r4in_cmll-villano-iii-vs-pegasus-kid-chr_sport


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I wouldn't say sucked but they're not the best matches around at least. Especially Danielson vs H.


I agree. My problem with Hunter/Bryan is that it didn't live up to its huge prior hype and personally, I though it was illogically worked:

- the taunting wasn't needed, there was enough stalling in the 6 month build, just fight already.
- Hunter trying to prove Bryan as a B+ player by accepting a count out win, really?
- Excessive stephanie screen time.
- No build up to the insult finisher (Trips stealing the yes lock), it just happens and early into the match. 
- Dodgy selling on Bryan's side.
- Very passive fight, you'd think for the amount of personal tension, it would translate into the match too. It should have been formatted as Bryan outfighting Hunter rather than it being a game of finesse and ability, nothing better than defeating someone at their own personal expertise. 

The actual execution (moves) etc. was solid but the storytelling was messed in regards to the tale aimed to tell. I don't know, it's probably like ***1/4 in my book. I gave Brock/Taker ** and my MOTN was Wyatt/Cena (****). ME was great too, ***3/4.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The real undiscovered gems are Benoit's matches in Mexico. I still can't find that one match he had with Villano III that was among the best of Benoit's career. From what I've read and somewhat seen, Benoit didn't exactly fit in seamlessly with the lucha style, but when he was able to wrestle a match more akin to his style, they were really really good.


I think they had multiple matches. The one I've seen is really good but absolutely not one of his best matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HBK/Angle at WM is still fucking awesome. FUCK THE HATERS. YEAH, HATERS. STOP HATING YOU FUCKING HATERS.

HHH/Bryan WM is awesome too. Better than the super trashy main event where Orton and Batista stunk up the joint and poor Bryan had to give it 300% in order to stop it from being the worst match of all time.

About to start my next 2005 PPV Ramble. Just posted Backlash 03 on my BLOG~! too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

One day Cal will attempt to make sense.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NEVER!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MATCHES OF THE NIGHT LIST

PART 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35168058-post1158.html
PART 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35207825-post1224.html
PART 3: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35382714-post1401.html
PART 4
(240-221)

#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010









#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010









#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999









#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993









#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas









#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001









#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007









#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007









#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013









#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005









#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day









#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006









#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010









#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013









#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012









#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002









#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header









#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011









#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012









#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12








*​


Spoiler: List so far



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)
*#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)
*#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thanks zep for the upload. There is a really good tag match between Michaels/Taker and Goldust/Mankind from a 96 house show that is worth looking into. Shawn goes crazy! Even did a no hands plancha over the rope!


NP. Here is one Bret/Owen House Show match for you. I do have another one too which ill try and up soon, and i do have that HBK/Taker tag match which i've been meaning to upload for ages now lol 

*Bret Hart vs Owen Hart (Madison Square Garden 05.20.1994) (House Show Handheld)*

x20031j


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Smackdown 2010 EC needs to be higher, Mysterio/Taker was MOTN of RR 2010, WGTT/Hardyz was MOTN of ER 2007, Taker/Diesel needs to be lower and Hunter/Lesnar needs to be higher. Just my two cents.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Smackdown 2010 EC was only average in the middle with the Punk and Taker stuff kicking it up; Taker/Rey was a nice little big man vs. small man fight but I'm probably the only man in this thread who ACTUALLY enjoyed the RR match; Hardys/WGTT was solid and definitely underrated in the Ladder match scenario but Orton/RVD told a WAY better story; Taker/Diesel was a manly fight and deserves its high spot; and HHH/Lesnar III would've been higher if the plotholes (like Lesnar needing Heyman to distract and weaken HHH to take advantage despite him being Brock fucking Lesnar, or HHH totally wrestling like a heel despite him being the face) weren't there to lower my opinion drastically on it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Taker/Rey is good but Christian/Zeke would be my MOTN by a long shot. Awesome match. Thought the Rumble match was totally garbage.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CHRISTIAN/ZEKE :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Christian/Zeke was definitely my first choice for the list. But then I seriously considered the RR match - I personally thought that it was worth it for HBK alone, then Punk's segment was gold, Beth eliminating Khali was weirdly funny, Edge returning wasn't bad I guess and the final four were quite intense. And I don't regret it tbh.

Anyways, didn't you mention your next 05 ramble would be "shocking", Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SHOCKING, motherfuckers.

2010 RR match sucks. Hell, the even is utter trash outside of Taker/Rey and CHRISTIAN/ZEKE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NO IT DOESN'T. IT'S GOOD. And I don't care if I'm alone defending it - but then again, you did give ****+ to Taker/Austin BL 2002 and, according to what I've heard, Taker/Rock NWO 2002 as well (RVD/Goldust was MOTN of that show and I have it a star less than you have for that Taker/Rock match). So I'm not alone in mad opinions, am I Cal? 8*D

I do agree that RR 2010 does kinda suck as a show. Certainly no worthy sucessor of RR 2009.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You suck and your opinions suck and you are alone in having crazy sucky opinions SO THERE 8*D.

And 2010 RR didn't stand a chance when it had to follow the 09 show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The opinion that I suck sucks harder and you have the criminal record of thinking Taker/Austin BL is any great, therefore you have even crazier and suckier opinions than mine. SO THERE. 8*D

Totally agreed on the RR point, though. As a matter of fact, ever since 2009, has there even been a good RR? 2014 was mildly decent and that's all I have.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2014 RR was great overall. Only had 4 matches and 2 of them were terrific (RR match and Bryan/Bray). All the other RR shows since 09 have absolutely sucked though (2011 RR match was great, but the rest of the card brought the event down).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guess mildly decent for RR 2014 is too little, since Bryan/Wyatt and the RR match were both massively kick-ass. I guess pretty good makes it justice. It does have the issues of terrible booking... and that GODAWFUL Orton/Cena match. But still, definitely the best one since 2009.

2010 was meh, 2011 was... not awful I guess but not too good either, 2012 was woeful and 2013 is one of the worst PPV's WWE has ever made. Not a good record.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have just seen THE most unbelievable and SHOCKING thing in wrestling EVER while watching this 05 PPV. I cannot believe that just happened. WOW.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I have the 2013 Rumble at ****1/2 for a number of reasons. Laid out well, engaging almost in its entirety, a surprise return, stars spread out, hot finishing stretch.

Punk vs. Rock was disappointing but it's all about the moment. Crowd was red hot when the match was restarted.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I have just seen THE most unbelievable and SHOCKING thing in wrestling EVER while watching this 05 PPV. I cannot believe that just happened. WOW.


I thought Lesnar killing the Streak was in 2014 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That moment has NOTHING on what I saw today.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did Ric Flair successfully perform a move from the top rope?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did Jerry Lawler fail to get a good match out of Hassan?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did Ric Flair successfully perform a move from the top rope?


Hey! He hit a crossbody off the top on HBK during his retirement match.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> SHOCKING, motherfuckers.
> 
> 2010 RR match sucks. Hell, the even is utter trash outside of Taker/Rey and CHRISTIAN/ZEKE.


So of course you bought me a copy you cunt.

I'm saddened to say I no longer own said copy because.... its RR 2010, what do you expect me to do with it after I've watched it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TAKER/REY AND CHRISTIAN/ZEKE, MOTHERFUCKER.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Cal hyping up a surprise and going cold on the follow-up. This thread is now Dixie Carter's Twitter account.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

All will be revealed when I've finished the PPV and post it .

And yes, it WILL disappoint like any TNA reveal .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Did Ric Flair successfully perform a move from the top rope?


You might be on to something. He did it at Taboo Tuesday and he might have also done it at Unforgiven. My money is still on Cal watching and LIKING One Night Stand.

Thanks zep for the upload. No need to do that for the Michaels/Taker tag match though as it's already up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tanaka/Awesome from ONS still rules IMO, but not as godly as the November To Remember match. Still my favorite one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, Awesome/Tanaka from ONS is fucking brutal. In a great way. More tables broken in that match than in any TLC match ever.

Benoit/Eddie from the same show was good too (if underwhelming as holy crap).


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)




----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Chismo said:


>


GREATEST. THING. EVER.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*One Night Stand 2005*

Getting this out of the way now. Original ECW fans, prepare to hate me for the rest of eternity.


Joey Styles get announced and looks like he's gonna cry cos the fans chant his name lol. He brings out CACTUS JACK as his co-commentator. HOLY SHIT THEY ACTUALLY KEPT IN THE CACTUS JACK MUSIC. Seriously, how have they always put in some shitty version of that on DVD in the past?


*Lance Storm Vs Chris Jericho*

Former tag partners here, and they had each other's first match ever too! Storm would consider this his last match for a couple of years until ROH threw some money at him .

ARM DRAGS~!

Fook me that dropkick from Storm was pretty epic. Looked perfect and looked like it nailed Jericho RIGHT IN THE FUCKING FACE too.

ONE ARM STALLING SUPLEX FROM STORM~!

NICELY DONE MICKLES~! :lmao 

TIGER SUPLEX FROM JERICHO~!

SUPERKICK FROM STORM~!

Match is very back and forth moves-y stuff, with both guys countering each other and hitting moves then getting countered and being hit by moves and I guess in THIS instance I can sort of forgive it because they trained together and were tag partners and kayfabe "know each other inside out".

Interference from Justin Credible and... ummmm... some other dude. KENDO STICK TO JERICHO~! Storm wins.

Match was decent at best. Not horrible, but not exactly good lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Nice video tribute to all the fallen wrestlers who appeared in ECW over the years.


*Tajiri Vs Little Guido Vs Super Crazy*

SINISTER MINISTER JAMES MITCHELL :mark:. Fuck me, Mickey Whipwreck got fat lol.

F.B.I. :mark:. Big Guido is one big motherfucker lol. TRACY SMOTHERS :mark:. Not sure why he's with the F.B.I. though lol.

HE'S SUPER. HE'S CRAZY. HE'S GOT ONE HELL OF A THEME.

:lmao at Joey Styles calling the referee a poor bastard having to referee this match.

MOONSAULT OFF THE BALCONY~! Super Crazy really is SUPER CRAZY~!

:lmao ECW fans chanting in Spanish as Super Crazy does the 10 punches in the corner. That's awesome.

ALL HELL IS BREAKING LOOSE~! TAJIRI IS OWNING FUCKING EVERYONE~! He eliminates Guido.

Super Crazy keeps hitting Moonsaults lol. I'm sure that's a thing he does but fuck if I know lol.

POWERBOMB~! MOONSAULT~! Tajiri is done and Super Crazy wins this match.

Fun. They go all out for the short amount of time they got and it was fun. Nothing more needs to be said.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Psicosis Vs Rey Mysterio*

Can't say I'm a fan of their previous ECW matches back in the day. But Rey had improved a TON in WWE so maybe we'll get something I will enjoy here. Maybe.

:lmao Psicosis took his mask off at the start of the match and Joey Styles put over how huge it was and how it shows that he respects the fans and shit... and 2 minutes into the match the fans are chanting "put the mask on" at him :lmao.

The fans aren't having much fun in this match :lmao. Until Psicosis hits a legdrop off the top rope to Rey who is on the guard rail, which looked fucking SICK.

:lmao Psicosis goes shoulder first into the ring post then takes a retarded bump off it outside of the ring and over the guard rail, just so we could get a Rey spot where he jumps over the ropes onto Psicosis in the fans.

West Coast Pop and this is over. Wow. This wasn't very good :lmao.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Angle, JBL and some other SD stars show up to "invade" aka sit and watch the show. FUCK YOU SMACKDOWN chant. NO, FUCK YOU ECW. SMACKDOWN IS AWESOME. Well... maybe not so much in 2005 but 2005 SD > ECW any year except when WWE took it over. SUCK ON THAT, BITCHES!

Joel Gertner shows up and... gets booted out by JBL. PROMO TIME FROM THE SD STARS~!

Fans to Angle: YOU SUCK DICK.

Angle to fans: YOU'RE MOTHERS TAUGHT ME HOW.

Well done Kurt. You just admitted you suck dick. LOL.

JBL promo~! Awesome stuff from him.

RVD returns and interrupts him. RVD is in a leg brace though cos his knee be fucked. So we don't get him in a match on the show. Oh what a shame. He cuts a pretty decent promo, as like he says, he wasn't limited to "whatever" and "cool" lol.

GORE! GORE! GOOOOOOOORE!!! Rhino just fucking GORED an injured RVD to fucking hell :mark:. Lights go out and... Sabu. This is a match apparently lol?


*Rhino Vs Sabu*

RHINO :mark:. Shame he's stuck with Sabu.

CHAIR TO RHINO'S HEAD.

What the? Did that just happen? Did I see what I think I saw? OH MY GOD! Sabu just ran the ropes, jumped on a chair, jumped off the chair onto the top rope then dived off onto Rhino... AND HE DIDN'T BOTCH IT. 

Good guy Sabu pulls the referee in front of him to avoid a Gore lol. PILEDRIVER~!

RVD gets involved and lobs a chair into Rhino's face. He sets Rhino up on a table, and Sabu leg drops him through it using a chair too. This is done.

Meh.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Al Snow talking to head. Apparently head invited the Smackdown stars lol.

Raw stars arrive now. WILLIAM REGAL~! He's more hardcore than any ECW guy tbh. CHRISTIAN~! He would be the greatest ECW champion ever 4 years later!!!


*Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero*

On paper this looks :mark:. Hell not too long before this, on Smackdown, they had a fucking TREMENDOUS match. So they are certainly capable of putting on a classic here.

Ahhh typical ECW fans. You have 2 INCREDIBLE wrestlers having a match and they are busy chanting shit at people (Raw & SD guys) in the crowd. Just like the Eddie/Malenko matches from back in the day!

Fans finally pay attention to the match and chant for both guys. ABOUT TIME YOU STUPID ECW FUCKS 8*D.

Eddie is bleeding from the nose. EEEEE SEEE DUB! EEEEE SEEEE DUB!

Oh wait, back to chanting shit at the Raw & SD guys.

Though tbh there isn't much happening in the ring. They've chopped each other a ton, then Eddie has used a couple of sleepers and... that's about it really so far lol.

SUPERPLEX~! MISSED FROG SPLASH~!

Benoit hits a few different suplexes. HEADBUTT. Eddie kicks out.

Crossface. Eddie taps.

Wow, this was a giant ton of fuck all. Disappointing as HELL.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Joel Gertner comes back and wants to ask Bischoff a question. CAN HE PLEASE HAVE A JOB? :lmao


*Mike Awesome Vs Masato Tanaka*

Oh boy. These guys have some OVERRATED AS FUCK matches during the original ECW days. This always gets praised too. Will I like it though?

:lmao Styles burying Awesome because of the WCW deal back in the day .

"SUICIDE DIVE BY MIKE AWESOME. AND IT'S A SHAME HE DIDN'T SUCCEED IN TAKING HIS OWN LIFE" Ummmm... I ain't touching that one .

AWESOME BOMB OFF THE APRON THROUGH A TABLE~!

SPLASH OFF THE TOP ROPE~!

Ok, finisher through a table. Splash from a 300lb man off the top rope. This is over now, right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

ANOTHER AWESOME BOMB~!

MULTIPLE HARD SHOTS TO THE HEAD AND TANAKA NO SELLS THE FUCK OUT OF ALL OF THEM BECAUSE EEEEEE SEEEE DUB! EEEEE SEEE DUB!

TORNADO DDT ONTO A CHAIR~!

2 count, obviously.

I'd make a joke about Angle putting this match together, but the sad thing is they were having these kind of matches long before Angle was.

CHAIR TO THE HEAD WHILE JUMPING OFF THE ROPES~!

Awesome doesn't even bother going for the cover because in what world would THAT be the finish? Certainly not the world of EEEEE SEEEE DUB! EEEEE SEEE DUB!

Awesome wrestles with a couple of tables.

TORNADO DDT THROUGH THE TABLE~!

:lmao 2 count. I bet Cena watches this match for porn. NEW PORN GENRE~! 2 COUNT PORN~!

AWESOME BOMB OFF THE ROPES ONTO THE ALREADY BROKEN TABLE~!

2 count again. Because EEEEEE SEEEEE DUB! EEEEE SEEEE DUB!

Awesome spends 5 minutes setting up another table on the floor.

AWESOME BOMB THROUGH THE TABLE~! AWESOME FOLLOWS IT UP WITH A SPLASH AND HOLY SHIT GETS THE 3 COUNT!

Fuck me what a pile of dogshit. Nothing but finishers through tables or onto chairs.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


PAUL HEYMAN~! My favourite part of ECW lol. Such a shame he wasted all his years on ECW and not something good 8*D.

Heyman thanks a bunch of people, then shoots on the WWE guys :mark:. 2 WORDS: MATT FREAKIN' HARDY!


*The Dudley Boys Vs Tommy Dreamer & Sandman*

Main event time! THANK FUCK.

No Enter Sandman on the DVD. Bah. Cheap bastards. Can throw money at Motorhead nonstop for the last decade but Metallica? Ironically only if HHH is using the theme for himself or a match he's involved in...

Even worse about all of that is the fact Motorhead did a cover of Enter Sandman which I fucking LOVE and prefer to the original. WHY DIDN'T YOU PAY MOTORHEAD FOR THAT AT LEAST? Cheap cunty bastards.

I know I'm talking a lot about Sandman's theme... but let's face it, there is more to discuss there than there is his in ring skills 8*D.

:lmao at Devon dancing to Sandman's theme.

BWO IN DA HOUSE~! Anything to keep this match from actually starting :lmao.

STEVIE KICK TO SANDMAN~!

Kid Kash MR TNA TOTAL NONSTOP ATTITUDE :lmao.

Balls and Axel come down with chairs too because EEEEE SEEE DUB. EEEE SEEE DUB.

Obvious set up to dive over the ropes is obvious.

Match finally starts. Boooo .

Dreamer has a cheese grater. He's probably just hungry.

CHEESE GRATER TO THE OPEN WOUND ON DREAMER'S HEAD WHICH WAS ORIGINALLY CAUSED BY... EEEEEE SEEEEE DUB. EEEEEE SEEEE DUB.

OH MY GOD! DREAMER JUST HIT BUBBA IN THE FACE WITH A PLASTIC BEER CUP! EEEEEE SEEEEE DUB! EEEEEE SEEEE DUB!

:lmao at Sandman doing the Figure Four. I'll make an educated guess and say he's drunk .

STORM AND CREDIBLE~!

SOME ECW WOMEN KICKING DREAMER IN THE BALLS~!

BEULAH CAT FIGHT WITH THE WOMEN~! ONLY SHE GETS TO PLAY WITH DREAMER'S BALLS DAMMIT!

:lmao at the DDT from Beulah on Bubba. Bubba falls before she does :lmao.

MY GOD HE JUST CRUSHED THE MAN'S BALLS~! :lmao

Powerbomb to Sandman through a table. Of course that's only a 2 count.

3-D to Dreamer!!!

Table gets set up, and out comes SPIKE~! He has lighter fluid.

FLAMING TABLE~!

POWERBOMB TO DREAMER THROUGH A FLAMING TABLE~!

And this match is done.

Thankfully.

Was mildly entertaining. MILDLY. BARELY. NOT SOMETHING I'D CALL GOOD STILL.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Dreamer is hurt and just got powerbombed through a table so... Sandman calls for a beer! And who brings it? STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN!!!

All the ECW guys comes out for a beer bash. And then the WWE guys invade and start a brawl. JBL beats the fuck out of the Blue Meanie for real. TAZ shows up. Chokes out Angle.

Foley drags Bischoff to the ring to get his arse mauled too. None of the WWE guys seem to want to help him lol. 

3-D TO BISCHOFF~!

DIVING HEADBUTT FROM BENOIT~!

619 FROM MYSTERIO~!

FUCK ECW~!

STUNNER~!



*Overall CAL SCALE - 2*​


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

I rewatched :angle2 :hbk at WM21 last night and fellas I gotta say it was good. The first half was kinda dull and they were kinda feeling each other out but the second half was good and suspenseful. I didn't like the ending. :hbk2 tapping at Mania just doesn't feel right. Also, I LOVED the spot with the :angle2 slam off the top rope. That should have ended the match IMHO. NOBODY should kick out of something like that! :mark:


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> *Mike Awesome Vs Masato Tanaka*
> 
> Oh boy. These guys have some OVERRATED AS FUCK matches during the original ECW days. This always gets praised too. Will I like it though?
> 
> ...












So... Austin/Taker at Backlash 02 is 16 times better than MIKE AWESOME VS FUCKING MASATO TANAKA?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Apparently so.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

FUCK :taker :austin2 at Backlash 2002. The match itself was fine I guess but it prevented us from getting Hogan/Austin for the title. Probably Hogan's fault.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You might as well just skipped the event Cal. :lol

That Awesome/Tanaka rating, come the fuck on dude.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal just took a Great Britain sized shit all over the ECW PPV, which I believe Funnyfaces said was the best show of the year :lmao

Can't believe I missed out on the best of Benoit discussion. Ugh. 

Instead of listing 25 matches of his, I'm going to list the 5 matches from him I believe you must see if you are a true wrestling fan:

1. Wild Pegasus vs Black Tiger Best of Super Juniors 1996
2. Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke Super J Cup Finals 1994
3. Chris Benoit vs Chris Jericho Ladder Match Royal Rumble 2001
4. Chris Benoit vs Fit Finlay Judgement Day 2006
5. Chris Benoit vs William Regal Brian Pillman Memorial Show 2000

I'd give all of those matches a "perfect" rating, and they are all uniquely different. You could also include his classics with Austin and Rocky, but really all you need to know about Benoit is in those 5 matches. He can work any style better than just about anyone else.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hogan/Austin would have ten times more dogshit than Taker/Austin was.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Hogan/Austin would have ten times more dogshit than Taker/Austin was.


Oh I don't think the match would have been that great at all but it's a bummer those two never faced each other.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> took a Great Britain sized shit all over the ECW PPV


Kinda like their soccer team took all over the World Cup? :curry2 

JUST KIDDING! I was actually pulling for England.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Football comments go right over my head, I have no idea what's going on with that World Cup thingy . Also, keep shitty sport talk out of this thread dammit!

And while I'm here, this is the WWE section DVD Thread. To talk about WWE matches and matches from promotions now owned by WWE. ROH, Japan etc being brought up in moderation are ok, but I've noticed pages of talk lately. We have the Indy section for that, so please use it . Oh and remember unless it's from ROH's official YouTube channel you can't post links to ROH matches because stuff. Don't make Platt angry! He might actually resort to posting!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley talks about it most and he is a bloody mod.  Plus more people frequent this thread, so there is more of a discussion about it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

...I am speechless. Can we please bring back Brye as a moderator to replace this clown? How is it that a man gives Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle a near five star rating, yet looks at Awesome/Tanaka as something worse than Eva Marie?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Brye is pretty awesome. The cool little brother I never had.


----------



## Marv95 (Mar 9, 2011)

Haven't done a short review in awhile so I'll go with King of the Ring 2002. On paper this looked like a quality show: Rock's return RVD/Y2J, Eddie vs Flair, Hogan/Angle, even Noble/Helms and Taker/Trips. But after buying the VHS back then it seemed like a waste of money. Only a couple of good matches, Flair/Eddie was disappointing, boring main event, overall it just didn't click. 4/10 and I think that's generous. The last show before the Ruthless Aggression era and it _really_ fell flat. Guess Stone Cold walking out didn't help matters.

The highlight package made this show better than it was: 






Best part of the show was a promo. Think about it.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

What is everyone's favorite Miz match?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Miz/Bryan from NOC 2010 most definitely. For once, Moz actually did good and didn't just let THE GODDAMN DAZZLER AMERICAN FUCKING DRAGON do all the work.

Oh, and you mean to tell me that, according to Cal, stuff like Taker/JBL Last Ride (very good but not great), TAKER/AUSTIN BACKLASH 2002 (GIANT PILE OF SHIT) and Taker/Lesnar WM 30 (only memorable for the outcome) is great while Awesome/Tanaka, the match of a 1000 broken tables and endless entertainment, sucks? That's not Taker Coke anymore, that's just straight up coke you're on, dude.
:taker


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> What is everyone's favorite Miz match?


The one he never wrestled in.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Did someone say COKE?!!!! :vince5


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. Clue to who it was: NOT RVD. 8*D

So after your shitstorm over One Night Stand, what's the next ramble? Because the hilarity is quite immense actually.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Pretty much on board with that ONS 2005 review except Tanaka/Awesome is like ****1/4 and Cal just doesnt get it.

Although he is correct on Mysterio/Psychosis and Eddie/Benoit being trash, though the event isnt really about great wrestling to me, more so just flat out fun.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, a thing that bugs me is that people here generally like ONS 2005 so much for the fun factor. Yet most dislike Survivor Series 2011 despite it being a similar show on that matter - less wrestling, more fun and memorability - but on an even bigger scale. Sad - that show is a crapton of fun. Hell, I don't like The Rock that much, and even I have to admit it was kinda cool to see him wrestle for 5 minutes in the Main Event :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Raven and Tazz had a match in the women's bathroom on the first RAW of 2001.

"Best" Miz matches:

vs. Punk/Del Rio (TLC 2011): *****1/4*
vs. Daniel Bryan (Night of Champions 2010): ******
vs. John Morrison (1/3/11): ******
vs. Finlay/Morrison/Hardy (7/22/08): ****3/4*
vs. Dolph Ziggler (11/21/12): ****3/4*
vs. Jerry Lawler (11/29/10): ****3/4*
vs. Bryan/Morrison (Hell in a Cell 2010): ****1/2*
vs. Rey Mysterio (7/25/11): ****1/2*
vs. John Morrison (Bragging Rights 2009): ****1/2*
vs. Jerry Lawler (Elimination Chamber 2011): ****1/2*

This does not include his good tag matches. Yes, somehow I did the impossible.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I enjoy SVS 2011 tbh

Might rewatch WM 21 undercard later, in the mood for some WWE which I havent been in forever


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Here is a fun little gem I didn't even know existed:

http://whatculture.com/wwe/wwe-5-classic-bret-hart-matches-that-have-been-forgotten.php/2

Bret Hart vs Mankind Shotgun Saturday Night 1/25/97

Really fun brawl, two of my all time favorites, definitely worth the watch


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> What is everyone's favorite Miz match?


It's a tie between Bryan/Miz at NOC 2010 and the Falls Count Anywhere match against Morrison at the first Raw of 2011. Both made him look like a million bucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still say this a forgotten Bret match:



As everyone, rightly so, always talks about the '99 match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Here is a fun little gem I didn't even know existed:
> 
> http://whatculture.com/wwe/wwe-5-classic-bret-hart-matches-that-have-been-forgotten.php/2
> 
> ...


You never watched it before?

You surely were missing, dude. I watched that for my cancelled Mick Foley project, and ADORED it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> You never watched it before?
> 
> You surely were missing, dude. I watched that for my cancelled Mick Foley project, and ADORED it.



Yea man I remember Bret talking about wrestling Foley a few times in his book, but I always assumed they only hooked up at house shows. I randomly came across this while searching 1996-1997 Mankind stuff I hadn't seen. Really, really good match with a very ECW type feel to it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My next Ramble is gonna be Taboo Tuesday because I wanna watch the epic cage match again :mark:.

Genuinely don't understand the love for Tanaka/Awesome btw. I get that people will ENJOY it, but giving it a ton of stars for nothing more than 2 guys going through tables and no selling shit? Feck off!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having dug it out, will try uploading Vader/Cactus Jack (Saturday Night 1993) match from Foley's DVD later, full unedited version.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (WCW Saturday Night 04.17.1993) (Full Unedited Version from Mick Foley DVD)*

*Includes aftermath and Vader/Race Interview*


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

You people still watching wrestling while the world cup is on? 

:duck


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> You people still watching wrestling while the world cup is on?
> 
> :duck


Erm I can't say i have lol. Think I've watched 2 matches since it started, and still havn't seen last week's Raw.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tonight I'll only watch to see my dear country Portugal destroy Murica. Hopefully. RONALDO BIATCHES. 

Anyway, thoughts on both Rey/Chavo I Quit matches?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Re-watched Angle/HBK from WM21. Let's just say I'm not a fan one bit.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> You people still watching wrestling while the world cup is on?
> 
> :duck


Easy there, Cal might get mad. 

I have barely watched any wrestling since Payback. The product is so bad that even funnyfaces can't bring himself to defend it. Although that's questionable since he actually has the guts to defend the WOAT 2012. Burned out on the old classics too atm so I need to recharge my wrestling batteries while the World Cup is entertaining me more than wrestling ever has. 

Germany better take it!


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Reatched 4 matches of WM 21..rest of the event can fuck off 

Eddie vs Rey: Not nearly as solid than any of their other matches ever. Not terrible but not really good at all, Eddie was good in this but Rey spent more time fiddling with his mask than wrestling, very meh. **1/2 

MITB: What more do I need to say? This is the best MITB match ever and a top 5 ladder match ever. loved it again. ****1/2 

Taker/Orton: Still awesome, need to rewatch the other matches but this might be #2 behind HIAC,****1/4 

HBK/Angle: Surprisingly this went up a bit. Is it the 5 star classic people call it? No not really, I wouldn't even call it great tbh, but its still pretty good. My biggest Qualm with this is the length, 27 minutes? Way too long this should have been about 20 minutes. Beginning is boring as shit but it gets better, overrated but still good, however not great. ***3/4


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> Erm I can't say i have lol. Think I've watched 2 matches since it started, and still havn't seen last week's Raw.


I've barely watched anything apart from skimming through Raw. Barely been on here too for that matter. It's been a nice little break actually and will hopefully have me recharged for THE BIG SUMMER ANGLE whatever it ends up being. 



Choke2Death said:


> Easy there, Cal might get mad.
> 
> I have barely watched any wrestling since Payback. The product is so bad that even funnyfaces can't bring himself to defend it. Although that's questionable since he actually has the guts to defend the WOAT 2012. Burned out on the old classics too atm so I need to recharge my wrestling batteries while the World Cup is entertaining me more than wrestling ever has.
> 
> Germany better take it!


Cal is always mad...or ROOT...or whatever stupid name he's calling himself these days. 

Germany will take it. Just watch. 

Spoilers for Summerslam are looking all over the place tbh. Ah well, at least things are (somewhat) unpredictable at the minute. And the world cup has been absolutely fantastic thus far so it's all balancing out for me. 

Have there been any matches added to MITB outside the title match? Also, anybody know when MITB actually is? That would be helpful to know.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Summer of Brock i hope. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Barely been on here too for that matter.


Fun times .

Actually, I was wondering to myself earlier today where you were. Couldn't remember if you simply hadn't posted in a while or if I just completely didn't notice your posts :lmao. 

Did you see my ONS 05 ramble from earlier? Everyone has been shitting over me about it, so you might as well take a look and join in .

Welcome back btw .

Oh and wrestling right now sucks. I haven't downloaded SD in about a month. Haven't seen TNA since Feb. Lucky if I see 10 minutes of Raw each week. Didn't know about the last PPV until the day before, my friend text me and asked if he could come down on the Monday and pick up a copy from me :lmao. No idea when MITB actually is or what the card is outside of the MITB for the title :lmao.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Fuck soccer, King Cal and I agree on something

Watching Michaels/Hogan for the 1st time (Yes shocked myself by that) and its pretty fun actually. Dont understand the hate, Michaels' bumping isnt even ALL that crazy or anything he hasnt ever done like most wrestling fans have said for years. I take it they havent seen matches of his from the 90s. Alittle long in the tooth as time goes, but p.solid; :lmao :lmao :lmao @ the part where HBK is jumping up in the air like a fish while Hogans kicks his stomach on the turnbuckle :hbk


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GOAT.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Fun times .
> 
> Actually, I was wondering to myself earlier today where you were. Couldn't remember if you simply hadn't posted in a while or if I just completely didn't notice your posts :lmao.
> 
> ...


You obviously missed me posting here ROOT, what the fuck is that supposed to be anyway, otherwise you would never have noticed that you didn't notice my posts were missing... :side:

I did not see your ONS 05 ramble and considering the fact that I don't think I've seen ONS 05 itself, I don't know if it's worth my while to check it out. Besides, everybody shits over you all the time so that's nothing new. 

THANK YOU

Yeah wrestling right now is kind of trotting along which is fine since I'm otherwise occupied. Maybe they're doing it on purpose because they know so many Americans care about SOCCER. Oh wait. It's just that time of year again. I'm sure things will pick up the last 2 weeks of July like they usually do. You watch TNA? :lol You have friends? :lol

I reckon because everybody is so meh about MITB it will likely turn out to be good. Low expectations usually = a better show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No I don't watch TNA. Haven't since Feb. CAN YOU READ?!?! 

And I have 3 friends. So there .


----------



## 6ARIQ (Aug 27, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> You people still watching wrestling while the world cup is on?
> 
> :duck


Soccer is boring as hell


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Apparently not . 

Internet friends don't count. Be honest.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If I counted internet friends I'd have like, double that amount .

Started watching Taboo Tuesday 2005... and then my DVD drive decided to open on its own and I couldn't be fucked sitting though all the "don't try this at home" crap that you can't skip. Well, you can with VLC player, but for some reason it doesn't like any of my 2005 PPV DVD's and won't play the actual show, but can do everything up to the main menu.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Do you want Taker to have another match, Cal? I never asked you this after Mania this year but what do you reckon? I'm not sure since I still haven't seen the state he was in for the Brock match. I did get Mania 30 though so I'll get it watched after the world cup. If he's able I'd like to see Taker/Bray and Taker/Seamus before he's done for good.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hmmm... I'm not sure. If he's physically able to... I guess, but I'm not sure it should be at WM. Undertaker wrestling again at WM after the STREAK was broken would just feel wrong. I'd say Survivor Series since its where he made his debut... but that's either too early for him to come back (this year) or too long to wait (next year). If he did come back it would have to be for something huge imo. As much as I'd like to see him Vs Sheamus, unless they suddenly give Sheamus a monstrous push I don't think it would be big enough. Vs Cena maybe?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Hmmm... I'm not sure. If he's physically able to... I guess, but I'm not sure it should be at WM. Undertaker wrestling again at WM after the STREAK was broken would just feel wrong. I'd say Survivor Series since its where he made his debut... but that's either too early for him to come back (this year) or too long to wait (next year). If he did come back it would have to be for something huge imo. As much as I'd like to see him Vs Sheamus, unless they suddenly give Sheamus a monstrous push I don't think it would be big enough. Vs Cena maybe?


Totally forgot about Cena. Cena/Taker would be unpredictable as holy hell. That match needs to happen before Taker's gone. It would be such a shame to miss out on that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vince doesn't want Taker beating Cena. :side: Shame we couldn't have gotten a Streak match between the two.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

That's the best idea you've ever had, Cal. IF Taker were physically able to wrestle one more match, I'd LOVE for it to main event Survivor Series, the place where it all started.

For opponents, only Bryan or Cena would do, for me. Bryan, because he would give Taker the best match and could use the rub. Cena because it's the biggest match that hasn't happened since Cena became the face of the company.

Aaaaaaaaand FUCK SOCCER. Any sport that can end with a score of 0-0 doesn't deserve to exist.

I feel like watching some Deadman now. Señor Root or anyone, what are some sneaky GREAT Taker matches that don't get talked about enough?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

VS AUSTIN AT BACKLASH 2002 8*D.

Hmmm... not sure if there are any "sneaky great" Taker matches nobody talks about much. He's one of those guys that gets talked about a ton and thus all his matches get mentioned a ton too. Like the awesome 08 SD matches with FESTUS and KANE after WM. Underrated matches with the likes of BIG DADDY V of all people. The great FINLAY match on SD in 07. Some fun tags with Kane on SD in late 06, or teaming with the likes of Batista in 07 during their feud. Great match with Mr Kennedy on SD in 07 too after they'd finished their actual feud in 06. Pretty much anything from his hardcore title run in late 01/early 02 as he demolishes everyone who challenges him (except Maven of course).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal, can you post that Taker/Meng (Raw) match link again plz.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Cal, can you post that Taker/Meng (Raw) match link again plz.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3m3qEoX8nGSbb65OAN


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tar.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> VS AUSTIN AT BACKLASH 2002 8*D.
> 
> Hmmm... not sure if there are any "sneaky great" Taker matches nobody talks about much. He's one of those guys that gets talked about a ton and thus all his matches get mentioned a ton too. Like the awesome 08 SD matches with FESTUS and KANE after WM. Underrated matches with the likes of BIG DADDY V of all people. The great FINLAY match on SD in 07. Some fun tags with Kane on SD in late 06, or teaming with the likes of Batista in 07 during their feud. Great match with Mr Kennedy on SD in 07 too after they'd finished their actual feud in 06. Pretty much anything from his hardcore title run in late 01/early 02 as he demolishes everyone who challenges him (except Maven of course).



UNDERTAKER HAD A MATCH WITH FINLAY?!?!

Done and done. Thank you sir. I wasn't watching much from 2006-2009 so I missed so much goodness from TV in that era.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> UNDERTAKER HAD A MATCH WITH FINLAY?!?!
> 
> Done and done. Thank you sir. I wasn't watching much from 2006-2009 so I missed so much goodness from TV in that era.


Wait... you haven't seen much from that time period? SWEET JEBUS WATCH EVERYTHING UNDERTAKER DID DURING THAT TIME FFS.

Starting with this:

Finlay Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown 09.03.2007

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2y8khvvZHfJ7V3OaDW


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> UNDERTAKER HAD A MATCH WITH FINLAY?!?!
> 
> Done and done. Thank you sir. I wasn't watching much from 2006-2009 so I missed so much goodness from TV in that era.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

6ARIQ said:


> Soccer is boring as hell


yes


The Fab Four said:


>


That's Fab


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Wait... you haven't seen much from that time period? SWEET JEBUS WATCH EVERYTHING UNDERTAKER DID DURING THAT TIME FFS.
> 
> Starting with this:
> 
> ...



I'm gonna watch this a second time now. The link I found and just watched was HORRIBLE quality and the sound wasn't synced up with the video, so I'd hear a punch noise then see the punch a second later (hate it when that happens).

Thank you (Y)

I've seen the entire Taker/Batista, Taker/Show, and Taker/Edge feuds from around that time, but I missed a lot of his week to week greatness on Smackdown. I've seen the Festus match though, that's a sweet little sprint.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

The Fab Four said:


>


:westbrook5

I'm gonna watch that match for sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If we could only 'bottle' the Taker from the first half of 2007.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Welp, Taker/Finlay was EXACTLY what I imagined a Taker/Finlay match would be like. Bunches, and bunches of top notch PUNCHES, Finlay's trademark nastiness and aggression, Takers excellent selling, and really good pacing made this a GREAT match. They worked it as an old school, tough guy, fight instead of a pure wrestling affair (which both guys are capable of doing btw) and I thought they really achieved the effect they were going for. I like Stephanie McMahons character, but I don't know if I'll ever forgive her for putting the kibosh on Finlay's main event heel push. Imagine how great it would be to regularly get 15+ minute Finlay matches against main event talent at PPV's? I might have ended my wrestling hiatus sooner 

My MotY for 2007 is Finlay/Hardy from Smackdown, but this might just sneak into my top 5-6, really really swell bout. Glad I got to see this. Let this just go to show EVERYONE that Gingers do indeed have a purpose in life 

(Kidding Cal)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

As soon as i get back to wrestling watching, Benoit/Regal (No Mercy) is near top of the list, can't believe i never seen it.......yet.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Starbuck said:


> You people still watching wrestling while the world cup is on?


I can either have a sport where two Texans punch each other in the face like Godzilla v. King Kong, or a sport where multiple people attempt to kick a ball into a net.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I feel like watching some Deadman now. Señor Root or anyone, what are some sneaky GREAT Taker matches that don't get talked about enough?


Have you seen the Henry match from 2/10/06 yet? It's awesome and better than every soccer match that's ever happened. Taker was great week to week in 06. 3/3/06 Angle match might be just as good as No Way Out. There's a really cool handicap match as well; Taker/Angle v. Henry/MNM 2/17.


edit - never seen Benoit/Regal!? It's like 12 minutes long, you can watch it any time.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Go with the Show vs Taker late 2008 series, minus the casket match. Their LMS is a severely underrated gem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this on a Schneider Comp i have:

*NJ – Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (6/12/93) *
This is a hand held from the 1993 Top of the Super Juniors and may be the first singles match between these two. As awesome as you would expect, stiff, fast and highflying.

Was it the first? Ill upload if anyone wants it.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

You absolutely should, it's the first in one of the all-time great in-ring rivalries.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah- I haven't seen the Henry match you mentioned, only their dissapointing WM match (wasn't bad or anything, just wasn't what I expected) so I'll have to find that one. I HAVE seen that Angle match from SD in 2006, and I concur it's almost as good as NWO. The best match those two had though was the SD match from 2003, which is unbelievably good and probably my MotY for 2003.

Zep- you havent seen Benoit/Regal NM yet?!?! Really?!?! And you were the one who sent me the BENOIT/FINLAY/BLUEBLOODS comp you nob . Have you seen the Pillman memorial show bout? They also have two FANTASTIC matches on Velocity (one in 2005, then an even better one in 2006) along with another 2-3 matches on Smackdown that rank from good to great. ITS ALL ON A COMP THAT YOU OWN!!! 

As for that Eddie/Benoit match- Eddie specifically says in his book the first time he EVER hooked up with Benoit, it was in Japan, and Benoit knocked him out cold with an Enzugiri. So if the match your talking about contains a super stiff kick to the head by Benoit to Eddie, it's almost certainly their first match ever together


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol I know mate, too much shit I gotta watch lol. I've seen both the Velocity matches, can't remember the Pillman Memorial so probably haven't seen that either. 

Ill put them near the top of my to watch list, and ill upload that Benoit match tomorrow.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Has Finlay ever wrestled La Parka? Because why not?

There are actually people (if you can call them that) who haven't seen Benoit/Regal yet? End your lives pls.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Chismo said:


> Has Finlay ever wrestled La Parka? Because why not?
> 
> There are actually people (if you can call them that) who haven't seen Benoit/Regal yet? End your lives pls.


Should we use the bowflex in two days to celebrate the 7th anniversary?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Has Finlay ever wrestled La Parka? Because why not?
> 
> There are actually people (if you can call them that) who haven't seen Benoit/Regal yet? End your lives pls.


Leave me alone.  

La Parka/Finlay had a match on Nitro in 2000 it seems, after a quick search.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My MotY for 2007 is Finlay/Hardy from Smackdown, but this might just sneak into my top 5-6, really really swell bout. Glad I got to see this. Let this just go to show EVERYONE that Gingers do indeed have a purpose in life
> 
> (Kidding Cal)


What's the date on that Finlay/Hardy match? I see two different Smackdown matches from those two that year. And my comment about never hearing a Ginger phrase that's used here, got weirdly and subjectively deleted. Oh well. Every time I hear something about Gingers, I think of Cal and smile. He owns that whole Ginger thing, because of you guys.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got around to watching the handicap tag from Smackdown. Loved the beatdown everyone put on Cena but I don't think there was enough effort put forth in the beginning and end to make it seem like anything above what we see on a weekly basis from TV tag matches. Probably throw *** 1/4 at it. 

Does anyone else find it crazy that just a few weeks ago Rollins turned on the Shield and we all expected _him_ to get the big push, but in reality it totally feels like Ambrose & Reigns especially are getting it? Ambrose has been putting on FANTASTIC babyface performances and Reigns is the focal point of this upcoming MITB ladder match. I haven't seen Rollins do much of anything to impress me. Decent matches against Ziggler but not what you'd expect out of the two. Bunch of talking really. Some of these new themes are god awful though.

I live with my girlfriend now (moved in together two weeks ago) and I got her into watching wrestling with me every week. She's a Sheamus & Roman Reigns fan. Hates Barrett and thinks Bray Wyatt is a freak.  She also despises Adam Rose. 

I haven't had much interest in watching wrestling outside of the weekly stuff lately due to the NBA playoffs and now the World Cup. The U.S. is putting on a good performance against Portugal right now. Hopefully they can get something to go in the net in the 2nd half. I don't even like soccer but when the World Cup comes around I'm all eyes.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

*WWE SmackDown 2007/3/6*

Fit Finlay vs. The Undertaker

_Oh look, it’s Taker’s 15 min long entrance. Nevermind, onto wrestling now: wow, this was great, just an awesome brawl, a vicious and very physical smashmouth punchfest. It’s a Finlay match, so of course it’s very organic and smart, and full of IQ, but Taker really surprised me here, with his willingness to be nasty and surly in a poker sense, if that makes any sense, which means he played the game and totally let Finlay to dictate the pace and rules. My biggest gripe with Taker is how his matches can look too formulaic and mechanical, but that was not the case here, not even close. The rating would’ve been even higher without HORSECUNTTLE and his crap, but no biggie there, it’s still a freakin’ great fight._

****​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> What's the date on that Finlay/Hardy match? I see two different Smackdown matches from those two that year. And my comment about never hearing a Ginger phrase that's used here, got weirdly and subjectively deleted. Oh well. Every time I hear something about Gingers, I think of Cal and smile. He owns that whole Ginger thing, because of you guys.


6/22/07 is the date of their best encounter. Hardys selling of the leg is one of the most realistic, wounded animal type sell jobs I've ever seen. And Finlay is a callous, no good bastard with the punishment he dishes out. I gave it ****1/2 on last watch, which some people I'm sure will say is overrating it but I couldn't care less. It's one of those genuinely perfect matches, if it had one or two of those goosebumps inducing moments it would have been a 5-star match.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Got around to watching the handicap tag from Smackdown. Loved the beatdown everyone put on Cena but I don't think there was enough effort put forth in the beginning and end to make it seem like anything above what we see on a weekly basis from TV tag matches. Probably throw *** 1/4 at it.
> 
> Does anyone else find it crazy that just a few weeks ago Rollins turned on the Shield and we all expected _him_ to get the big push, but in reality it totally feels like Ambrose & Reigns especially are getting it? Ambrose has been putting on FANTASTIC babyface performances and Reigns is the focal point of this upcoming MITB ladder match. I haven't seen Rollins do much of anything to impress me. Decent matches against Ziggler but not what you'd expect out of the two. Bunch of talking really. Some of these new themes are god awful though.
> 
> ...


I've sorta gotten my girlfriend into wrestling too. She LOVED the Cody/Goldust team from last fall and got super angry when WWE buried them for no reason whatsoever. Now she likes Cesaro and Daniel Bryan. She's got good taste 



Chismo said:


> *WWE SmackDown 2007/3/6*
> 
> Fit Finlay vs. The Undertaker
> 
> ...


I gave that ****1/4 so I was pretty much right on par with your assessment. I don't necessarily agree that Takers matches can be "formulaic", anymore than any other top wrestler, but that Finlay match was definitely different than a typical Taker TV match, and far nastier and punchier, if that's even a word. Taker laying on his side and throwing those gorgeous punches right into Finlay's head was the highlight for me, personally.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've sorta gotten my girlfriend into wrestling too. She LOVED the Cody/Goldust team from last fall and got super angry when WWE buried them for no reason whatsoever. Now she likes Cesaro and Daniel Bryan. She's got good taste


My girlfriend says Cesaro doesn't stick out enough because of his look and he gets overshadowed by Paul Heyman. Maybe she has a point...

That U.S. vs. Portugal game... heartbreaking, fellas. Heartbreaking.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Taker vs Orton on SD in 2005 is often forgotten but it's right on par with their PPV encounters. Just watched NYR 07, definitely a two match show (Cena/Umaga and RKO/DX). Found the opening steel cage match to be a decent contest as well, ***1/2 for the two main events and *** for the opener. You could go without seeing the other matches as they're nothing too extravagant.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finlay vs Undertaker from 2007 is phenomenal. Just an awesome brawl from two tough motherfuckers, similar to Finlay/Benoit matches, only this time Taker is the big man rather than an even sized fight. Hornswoggle shenanigans didn't take anything from it. In fact, his reaction was entertaining to Taker no selling that shillelagh hit. Four stars is where I'd put it too.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> That U.S. vs. Portugal game... heartbreaking, fellas. Heartbreaking.


And that right there is why football is the #1 sport in the world. 

Flip the coin and I was marking the fuck out at that last minute goal. :lol _(not because Portugal is my team or I hate USA, but because I'd hate to see Ronaldo out of the cup so early)_


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Taker vs. Orton on SD '05 is better than their WrestleMania match, imo. I prefer matches with more structure, which is why. Their Summerslam match is better than both though. ****, *** 3/4, and *** 1/2 for all 3 respectively. 

I hate Christiano Ronaldo. Guy didn't show up until the LITERAL LAST MINUTE. :cuss:


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Choke2Death said:


> And that right there is why football is the #1 sport in the world.


Other sports have last minute plays to where there's actually a modicum of action before hand. Soccer sucks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Soccer-where gel'd up pansies flop like they've been shot at the slightest bit of contact and the action is about as interesting as watching paint dry 

I Wonder why no soccer players have made the transition to pro graps? Those guys can all sell their asses off, they take the phrase "selling like Ricky Morton" to a whole nother level.

Okay I'm done making fun of soccer. Back on topic.

When did this Taker/Orton SD match take place? I've always liked their WM match best out of their series but I'd love to see another 1 on 1 straight up contest.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Watched the 5/2/05 match between Regal and Benoit. Saw the commercialed one. There must be an unedited one somewhere or a better match on Velocity between the two because I remember one where Striker calls it a 5* match at the end and he didn't on this one.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Taker/Orton match from Smackdown 2005 is on September. (16/9/05 iirc) I'd probably place it ahead of WM too. As much as I like WM21, it keeps getting surpassed for me by their other matches in the 05 series.

They also have a squash match in 2002 where Orton is his pre-Evolution self with the goofy hair and blue shorts that's worth a watch.

And I'm not gonna bother with that anymore, but there's a reason football (yes, football) is the #1 sport in the world and everyone other than Yanks (and Cal) love it! We grew up on this shit as kids and it's in our blood. I can speak for many people worldwide, specially those from poorer countries!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm typically not a fan of soccer at all unless it's for the World Cup. I honesty don't even know if it's broadcasted at all on a mainstream level here in the states. Maybe an occasional MLS game, but who cares about that. Watching the World Cup games are pretty damn exciting, especially when there's a lot of shots on goal. The only problem is there's no breaks. You walk away for a minute and you can miss the biggest portion of the game! 

Back on topic. Any predictions for who the Authority will put in the 2nd MITB Ladder match? My guess:

Rusev (for his performance against Reigns)
Barrett (because he's Barrett)
Bo Dallas (so we can BOLIEVE!)
Ziggler (even though they hate him it's just because he has a victory against Barrett)
Kane (because he's Kane)
RVD (to fill the last spot with Rollins to make 7)

No chance they'll let Ambrose into the match. I can see a Divas Title match, Layla vs. Summer Rae, and a Dust Brothers Dynasty tag match being thrown in to round out the card. Maybe a Big E or Adam Rose random thing thrown in too. Usos vs. Rowan & Harper should get a lot of time to give us something meaningful and similar to their stellar RAW match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

PART 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35168058-post1158.html
PART 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35207825-post1224.html
PART 3: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35382714-post1401.html
PART 4: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35724370-post1806.html

PART 5
(220-201)

#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001









#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage









#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5









#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997









#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere









#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre









#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009









#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006









#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004









#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9









#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007









#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993









#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002









#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010









#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011









#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001









#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007









#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006









(***3/4)
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003









#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002








*​


Spoiler: list so far



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

SD main event this week was actually a lot of fun. DAT POP for Reigns getting the hot tag though. Holy mother of God. Watching everybody cry over dat Reigns overness is going to be amusing :lol. Watching Hunter job to him at Summerslam is not .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit (New Japan 06.12.1993) (Handheld)*



> This is a hand held from the 1993 Top of the Super Juniors and may be the first singles match between these two. As awesome as you would expect, stiff, fast and highflying.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> SD main event this week was actually a lot of fun. DAT POP for Reigns getting the hot tag though. Holy mother of God. Watching everybody cry over dat Reigns overness is going to be amusing :lol. *Watching Hunter job to him at Summerslam is not .*


I can't wait 8*D.

Weird that Reigns is seemingly the new "golden boy" within WWE and getting the big push, AND the "casual" fans are super behind him... and I'm actually ALSO A FAN. I'm part of the IWC, right? I should fucking HATE Reigns, right? WHAT IS GOING ON? I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!?!

Back to TT 05 methinks. Fook me the undercard is some of the most random shite ever. WHY ON EARTH WAS MICK FOLEY WRESTLING CARLITO? Like, why was he even involved in any kind of angle with the guy? In 2005? It's just random as fuck lol. Hurry up and give me the damn cage match already.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because Foley called Carlito "a horse's ass" on the CARLITO CABANA, and Carlito challenged him afterwards. The match itself... very bleh. And this is from a hardcore Foley fan.

Have you even started TT 2005 yet? Because the opening tag is actually quite solid iirc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah I'm up to Foley/Carlito. I got through the video package last night (I know WHY they are having the feud in terms of the show... but WHY did it actually happen to begin with lol? Foley Vs Carlito? Who booked that shit?), and then my DVD drive randomly opened and I couldn't be fucked loading it back up again .


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Foley was probably given Carlito to try to get him over. Carlito. Good thing we have guys like Reigns nowadays.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Should have been Foley Vs Masters.


----------



## TMLP100 (Jun 23, 2014)

This is from a new member keep in mind, What are good Wrestlemanias to get on DVD? (I hope this is the right place to put this.)


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> I can't wait 8*D.
> 
> Weird that Reigns is seemingly the new "golden boy" within WWE and getting the big push, AND the "casual" fans are super behind him... and I'm actually ALSO A FAN. I'm part of the IWC, right? I should fucking HATE Reigns, right? WHAT IS GOING ON? I DON'T UNDERSTAND?!?!
> 
> Back to TT 05 methinks. Fook me the undercard is some of the most random shite ever. WHY ON EARTH WAS MICK FOLEY WRESTLING CARLITO? Like, why was he even involved in any kind of angle with the guy? In 2005? It's just random as fuck lol. Hurry up and give me the damn cage match already.




I actually like Reigns too and it's cool to see the casuals behind him. I don't even have a problem with him going over Trips for that matter. It's more the fact that he's turning into a jobber this year lol. Dude needs to pick up some wins or a victory over him is going to mean as much as a victory over Jericho down the line. The Jobber Game .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TMLP100 said:


> This is from a new member keep in mind, What are good Wrestlemanias to get on DVD? (I hope this is the right place to put this.)


WrestleMania VII
WrestleMania 13
WrestleMania X7
WrestleMania X8
WrestleMania XIX
WrestleMania 21
WrestleMania 22
WrestleMania 24 
WrestleMania 25
WrestleMania 26 

That's a good starting point. A few others like 20, 28 and 30 too, mainly for pretty much 2 matches on each show though, so it depends on how much you like/are interested in the top matches.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Should have been Foley Vs Masters.


That still would have been good in 2005, yeah. Michaels v. Masters is pretty good and I think 2005 Michaels stinks. Should have REALLY been Foley v. MNM in a handicap match. Goddamn it I want to see that so much now.

EDIT - Did I just read the phrase "HHH needs some wins"? :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did Foley and Regal ever wrestle?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

No, they didn't. Same for the dream Foley/Finlay pairing. And yeah, Foley/Carlito was probably for the sake of trying to get Carlito over. Random as fuck.

Still, not anymore random than the Legends match from the very same show I'd say.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT - Did I just read the phrase "HHH needs some wins"? :lmao


You did and I'm not even joking. He's lost every major match of the last few years bar one. 

WM27 - Loss
WM28 - Loss
SS12 - Loss
WM29 - Win
ER13 - Loss
WM30 - Loss
ER14 - Loss
PB14 - Loss

I'm not saying he needs to go on a rampage and win every match going forward but if they're using him to put people over, which they have this year, sooner or later it's going to lose impact because everybody has already beat him. He's still Triple H and is still credible etc but he isn't bulletproof either. If he loses to Reigns at Summerslam and then possibly loses to Wyatt next year at WM31 say, anybody facing him beyond that isn't going to get the same impact that Bryan beating him did at 30 for example. 

Just saying. 

:trips3


----------



## Rahil_Rage (Jun 5, 2014)

*Extreme Rules 2014 out on DVD*










Blu-Ray Disc Exclusives



Monday Night Raw – 7 April 2014

Daniel Bryan Thanks the WWE Universe



Hulk Hogan Presents Cesaro with the Andre the Giant Memorial Trophy



WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match

Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H





Monday Night Raw – 14 April 2014

Handicap Match

The Shield vs. Alberto Del Rio, Jack Swagger, Alexander Rusev, Fandango, 3MB, Ryback, Curtis Axel, Titus O’Neil & Bad News Barrett



SmackDown – 18 April 2014

Triple H Announces the Reformation of Evolution



Monday Night Raw – 21 April 2014

Kane Eviscerates Daniel Bryan



Monday Night Raw – 28 April 2014

Bray Wyatt’s Choir Serenades John Cena



John Cena Reacts to Bray Wyatt’s Message





Triple Threat Elimination Match

Rob Van Dam vs. Cesaro vs. Jack Swagger



Two-On-One Handicap Match

Xavier Woods & R-Truth vs. Alexander Rusev



WWE Intercontinental Championship Match

Big E vs. Bad News Barrett



Six-Man Tag Team Match

The Shield vs. Evolution



Steel Cage Match

John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt



WWE Divas Championship Match

Paige vs. Tamina Snuka



Extreme Rules Match for the WWE World Heavyweight Championship

Daniel Bryan vs. Kane







DVD Extras



Extreme Rules Kickoff 

WeeLC Match

El Torito vs. Hornswoggle



The Shield Discuss Their Match with Renee Young



Extreme Rules FallOut 

Daniel Bryan Post-Match Press Conference



Extreme Rules FallOut

Bray Wyatt Post-Match Press Conference


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I'm excited for a Reigns/HHH match at Summerslam, but I don't know if that match would live up to the hype. Roman is pretty "green" in the ring and I don't know how much can HHH carry him in a regular match. If it wouild be a Street Fight or a match like that, than it would be for sure a MOTYC. Hunter is the king of gimmick matches


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hogan/Brock from 2002 is a marvelous, little match. Gave The Beast a heap of momentum leading into his awesome match with The Rock.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> I actually like Reigns too and it's cool to see the casuals behind him. I don't even have a problem with him going over Trips for that matter. It's more the fact that he's turning into a jobber this year lol. Dude needs to pick up some wins or a victory over him is going to mean as much as a victory over Jericho down the line. The Jobber Game .



I don't think Hunter needs to win anymore, personally. You have to ask, what does he gain by winning? Nothing. Foley didn't win a match for like 6+ years in the WWE and he was still credible and still able to make Edge a star at WM 22. Now, if they start having Trips lose to guys who ARENT stars, like they did with Jericho, then yea it's a problem. But Hunter losing to cats like Brock (who he also beat), Daniel Bryan, Roman Reigns, Undertaker, etc doesn't hurt him in the least. That's just my view. Hunter has built up over a decades worth of credibility in the eyes of the fans, and he's still an awesome promo. Going back to Summerslam 2012, he's like 1-3 or something right? Lost to Brock twice and Bryan once clean in singles matches. That's not bad at all. Plus, now it's in the fans minds that "well Hunter has lost his last 3 matches, so he's GOTTA win this one, right?" That will lead to more unpredictability. Cause as soon as Hunter wins one, we all know he's gonna lose his next few. Just my .02

As far as Reigns goes, yea I'm a big supporter of him. He's still so raw and green, he will get LOADS better, but he's already got a ton of intangibles and definitely has the "it" factor. I just enjoy watching him do his thing. I love seeing people whine about his lack of polish. It's not 1986 anymore, fellas. Guys don't have territories to go to and learn their craft, and WWE can't just keep raiding ROH talent all the time. Some dudes just need to fly by the seat of their pants and learn as they go. Roman is one of those guys, but the promising thing is, HE GETS BETTER EVERY SINGLE TIME HE COMES OUT. He's steadily improved from month to month since he arrived. That shows he truly cares about being great and wants to become a polished, all around performer. He's already a lot better than Ryback (as sad as that is for me to say, I had high hopes for "the big guy" but he's failed me) and he's only been wrestling for like 3 years total.

Big fan of Reigns, big big fan of Rollins, and becoming a HUGE fan of Ambrose, who just might be the best in the world now that Bryan is on the shelf.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit (New Japan 06.12.1993) (Handheld)*



> This is a hand held from the 1993 Top of the Super Juniors and may be the first singles match between these two. As awesome as you would expect, stiff, fast and highflying.




First match between them.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Nearly conquered the streak twice. Win/Loss trading with Lesnar. Held his own against Bryan, who is credibly the top guy in the company, and is now two down in trio matches and at the basis of what makes Reigns believe he will beat Hunter.

They'll work Hunter beating Reigns down leading up the PPV, as they did with Bryan. Things will be okay.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOLDUST. VADER. WWE. 2005. WHY DID THIS NOT CONTINUE AFTER TABOO TUESDAY?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vader was out of shape and Goldust was hopeless. Good thing it didn't go on or else both men would have hurt their legacies.

:lmao at Starbuck's Punk erasure. She's still so bitter. Dude also beat Nash for what it's worth.

Chris Masters was terrible in his first run. Like Konnan terrible.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Lol HHH needs some wins. I think he's had enough. The guy is in his mid forties and is at his tail end of his wrestling career. 

The dude has no business beating anybody at this point and I think he realises this. The dude spent over ten years building his credibility. And also If new guys need putting over HHH shouldn't be the only guy to do able to do that.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

> Chris Masters was terrible in his first run. Like Konnan terrible.


Say what, now


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

HHH doesn't need wins anymore. At this point he's good in his role, giving guys a big win. He can't necessarily make stars on his own through losses (Shield was already a star team by the time they took him out and Bryan was over and put over by Cena way back at Summerslam), but Reigns beating him would definitely be Reigns' biggest win thus far...

... which is exactly why HHH should beat him. It's no secret that right now I'm far from Reigns' biggest supporter, but they are giving him everything way too fast. A title win any earlier than WM32 is, in a way, throwing him to the wolves, because he won't be ready by WM31 (not that I'm a fortunteller, but he's nowhere near ready now talent-wise, and him being ready by then would have to be the biggest improvement in under a year's time I'd ever seen). If Reigns gets it that earlier, I guarantee it won't be long until we have another Cena-esque babyface where he has half the crowd cheering him and half the crowd booing him... and then at some point I'm certain they'll turn him into a carbon copy of Cena, which as a WWE fan I don't know if I could stand another decade of fan.

HHH beating Reigns does two things. One, it gets a win on HHH, which he could use to make someone else's victory over him mean more than a Reigns victory over him. If Reigns beats HHH, that'll pretty much kill any credibility you get off a HHH win. Two, it makes Reigns look vulnerable and relatable. I'm not saying he should lose clean to HHH, but him getting screwed against HHH of all people, who would no doubt run with it and piss the crowd off using that fact, would actually make him MORE over than he is now. Heck, it could actually make for a pretty good feud for when Reigns does beat HHH, and it would mean much more at that point. 

I think the bottom line is they need to make him a force to be reckoned with, but not another superman type babyface (ala Cena and Sheamus). Those will kill you to at least half the crowd. It's already killed most of my interest in him (combined with the fact I don't he's any good). 

Actually, just have HHH bury the fucker. :HHH2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> HHH doesn't need wins anymore. At this point he's good in his role, giving guys a big win. He can't necessarily make stars on his own through losses (Shield was already a star team by the time they took him out and Bryan was over and put over by Cena way back at Summerslam), but Reigns beating him would definitely be Reigns' biggest win thus far...
> 
> ... which is exactly why HHH should beat him. It's no secret that right now I'm far from Reigns' biggest supporter, but they are giving him everything way too fast. A title win any earlier than WM32 is, in a way, throwing him to the wolves, because he won't be ready by WM31 (not that I'm a fortunteller, but he's nowhere near ready now talent-wise, and him being ready by then would have to be the biggest improvement in under a year's time I'd ever seen). If Reigns gets it that earlier, I guarantee it won't be long until we have another Cena-esque babyface where he has half the crowd cheering him and half the crowd booing him... and then at some point I'm certain they'll turn him into a carbon copy of Cena, which as a WWE fan I don't know if I could stand another decade of fan.
> 
> ...



I'm 100% on board with this. I'm ALWAYS in favor of waiting to give a guy his big push until he's truly ready. Otherwise you end up with champions like Del Rio and Sheamus instead of champions like Eddie, Bryan, and Henry. It's so much better when the crowd is fully ready and buying into a guy, when a guy becomes champion because he's the best out, and NOT having them try to make a guy through giving him the belt. If they are doing Reigns/Hunter at SS, and they want Reigns to be their new big baby face, having him get screwed would be the best bet. Not because Hunter needs a win, but because Reigns can gain more by defeat than by winning, if he's destined to be a face.

I'm a huge Reigns supporter, but he's no Kurt Angle or Brock Lesnar. He's not gonna be champion material until WM 32 time or so, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. He should still be an upper mid card guy who can be called on to credibly main even a B PPV every now and then.

I feel the same way about Bray, they need to wait until he is undisputedly the guy who should have the title. I have no idea what the plans are for MitB, I refuse to read spoilers, but I think the best thing they can do while Bryan is on the shelf is give the belt to someone like Cena, have him wrestle Brock at SS, have Brock beat him, then use up all of Brock's dates and give him a good 3-4 month reign until Bryan is fully ready to come back and reclaim his proper place atop the wrestling world. That's my .02.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm a huge Reigns supporter, but he's no Kurt Angle or Brock Lesnar. He's not gonna be champion material until WM 32 time or so, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. He should still be an upper mid card guy who can be called on to credibly main even a B PPV every now and then.
> 
> I feel the same way about Bray, they need to wait until he is undisputedly the guy who should have the title. I have no idea what the plans are for MitB, I refuse to read spoilers, but I think the best thing they can do while Bryan is on the shelf is give the belt to someone like Cena, have him wrestle Brock at SS, have Brock beat him, then use up all of Brock's dates and give him a good 3-4 month reign until Bryan is fully ready to come back and reclaim his proper place atop the wrestling world. That's my .02.


I agree completely about Reigns, but I'd be willing to bet my college tuition that he's winning the title in the main event of WM31.

As for the title situation, I'm guessing Cena wins it and drops it to Bork. Not sure what would happen after that, but I don't think Bryan/Bork will happen until the Rumble if it does at all.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still can't see Brock winning the belt this year TBH, despite what dem dirtsheetz say.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't know why would they give Brock the title anyway. For him to leave and not defend the title until January? Bitch please. Isn't Bryan healthy by the time of SummerSlam? If so, why not Cena/Bryan II for example?


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm assuming Lesnar has some dates saved up for this year. Maybe not 

But Bryan probably won't be back for SummerSlam with the way things sound.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nice for Cole to mention the last stretcher match was ten years ago. What about HBK/Batista?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

ATF said:


> I don't know why would they give Brock the title anyway. For him to leave and not defend the title until January? Bitch please. Isn't Bryan healthy by the time of SummerSlam? If so, why not Cena/Bryan II for example?


Brock is already pretty much confirmed for the WWE WHC Title match at SS. Cena/Lesnar would be awesome,imo, but their bout from 2012 was my MOTY back then, so


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> Nice for Cole to mention the last stretcher match was ten years ago. What about HBK/Batista?


They said it was the first in 10 years on Raw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Helmsley said:


> They said it was the first in 10 years on Raw.


Oooohhhhhhh. My bad i guess.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> I don't know why would they give Brock the title anyway. For him to leave and not defend the title until January? Bitch please. Isn't Bryan healthy by the time of SummerSlam? If so, why not Cena/Bryan II for example?



Brock is almost definitely working NoC this year as well, that's when the first round of Network subscriptions are up for renewal so I'm betting they try and stack the card for that show.

I'd rather have a part time champ of Brock's caliber than another endless Cena or Orton run, and I'd rather Brock hold the belt than hot shotting and potentially screwing up someone who isn't ready, like Bray, Cesaro, Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose, Barrett, or any of those guys. Wouldn't you agree?

We don't know how long Bryan will be out, but we DO know his first match back shouldn't be against an animal like Brock. Maybe Brock beats Cena at SS for the title, they have a rematch at NoC with Brock retaining, then Cena and Bryan battle at HiaC or whatever the next PPV is for the #1 contender spot. Winner gets a shot at the title at SVS or TLC, or something, I don't know.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

No way Brock works anything past NOC. He either drops the belt or leaves with it and comes back for a unification match with whoever the new champion is like Punk-Cena Summerslam 2012.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Putting the titles on a part-time wrestler might be exactly what the midcard titles need at this point, tbh. This way, the WWE WHC Title matches would feel huge when Brock returns to defend them, and the spotlight can fall for a short amount of time on the Intercontinental and US Titles. It really is a win-win situation


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I like the idea of Bork leaving with the titles and returning for a unification of sorts (it'd also be a good way to create a new belt so the champion doesn't have to carry two). 

It also mirrors in a way what happened with Bork in UFC  :brock


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

Everyone's thoughts on Taker/Austin from IYH:Cold Day In Hell '97? I haven't seen it in a few years & was thinking about watching it again. I remember it was kinda slow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It was alright. There were only a select few Taker/Austin matches that I really enjoyed anyway (Fully Loaded 1999 and Judgment Day 2001). Rest is bleh. And no Cal, Backlash 2002 was HORRICRAP.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Brock is almost definitely working NoC this year as well, that's when the first round of Network subscriptions are up for renewal so I'm betting they try and stack the card for that show.
> 
> I'd rather have a part time champ of Brock's caliber than another endless Cena or Orton run, and I'd rather Brock hold the belt than hot shotting and potentially screwing up someone who isn't ready, like Bray, Cesaro, Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose, Barrett, or any of those guys. Wouldn't you agree?
> 
> We don't know how long Bryan will be out, but we DO know his first match back shouldn't be against an animal like Brock. Maybe Brock beats Cena at SS for the title, they have a rematch at NoC with Brock retaining, then Cena and Bryan battle at HiaC or whatever the next PPV is for the #1 contender spot. Winner gets a shot at the title at SVS or TLC, or something, I don't know.


Brock winning the title does seem rather inevitable and indeed he is a fabulous wrestler (even though his last GOOD match was only a year ago), but my mind just can't take off of how that just shouldn't happen. I guess it's better than Cena and Orton, yeah, but still... a year ago, Rock won the title and look how that turned out. Even if he did show up/defend at every PPV during his reign (which was only 3), the matches themselves, outside of Rock/Punk II which was average at best, were AWFUL. Brock is a huge improvement, no doubt, but still, part-timers with the belt, the SOLE World Title belt nonethless (Rock's reign still had the WHC to sort of back it up, even if it was being kinda wasted on ADR), is not a great idea imho.

Well, I know for sure that Bryan should (and will) get his title match as soon as possible, since he's due it because he was stripped of the title. And he's more than due to win it back as well. And for the love of God, that CANNOT happen if Brock has the title. As a matter of fact, no one should ever beat Brock again anyway since he did... you know, THAT at this year's WM. If, for example, Bryan beats him, clean or not, it would be basically implying that Daniel Bryan would've too been capable of ending the fucking Streak. To me, that's biblically annoying, despite me being a huge Bryan fan. No one should've ended the Streak, and Brock ending it seems stupider every passing day.

But whatever. I guess that if it true that mostly everything going on right now AND since WM is all Vince's product makes me think Punk was right - this company will only get better if HHH takes over definitely. Which, tragically but necessarily, will only be the day that Vince dies, since the guy has been living, breathing and shitting wrestling and will probably NEVER back down. I mean, isn't HHH the mind behind The Shield, Bray Wyatt and NXT to name a few?

Anyway, where's Cal's TT 2005 ramble? That should provide some more hilarity after the ONS debacle :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KingDio said:


> Everyone's thoughts on Taker/Austin from IYH:Cold Day In Hell '97? I haven't seen it in a few years & was thinking about watching it again. I remember it was kinda slow.


Not that good tbh. Boring. Basic leg work from Austin and that's about it. BACKLASH 2002 IS WHERE IT'S AT. JD 01 too. FL 99 First Blood is good. Oh and the OTE 99 match is underrated too because, well... the PPV is only remembered for one thing (and rightly so  ).



ATF said:


> Anyway, where's Cal's TT 2005 ramble? That should provide some more hilarity after the ONS debacle :lol


I'm up to the cage match. Took a little break because... well the ramble shall explain all .


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> Not that good tbh. Boring. Basic leg work from Austin and that's about it. BACKLASH 2002 IS WHERE IT'S AT. JD 01 too. FL 99 First Blood is good. Oh and the OTE 99 match is underrated too because, well... the PPV is only remembered for one thing (and rightly so  )..


Yeah I remembered it correctly then haha, boring.

Backlash '02, I just remember that match was long & Flair was special referee; didn't remember that it was any good. Maybe I'll give it a watch, only seen it once before like ten years ago ha.

Yup, the first blood match was good. Used to watch it alot when I first got into wrestling, on the Tombstone Undertaker set I believe.

I remember like nine years ago or so, I bought a recording of OTE '99 PPV on a burned dvd from some dude online. Just to see the Austin/Taker match cause at that time it was kinda rare & not findable online. I only ended up watching it once, so I might go give that another look.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

KingDio said:


> Yeah I remembered it correctly then haha, boring.
> 
> *Backlash '02, I just remember that match was long & Flair was special referee; didn't remember that it was any good. Maybe I'll give it a watch, only seen it once before like ten years ago ha.
> *
> ...


DON'T DO IT. YOU WILL DIE VICTIM OF SYMPTHOMS LIKE COLOSSAL BOREDOM, WATCHING BAD ATTEMPTS AT "WRESTLING" RATHER THAN BRAWLING IN A MATCH BETWEEN FUCKING AUSTIN AND TAKER, AND HUGE DISSAPOINTMENT. I warned you.

Not mentioned up there but there are lots who actually enjoyed SS 1998 too. Didn't thought of it as horrible myself, just kind of a senseless brawl. Below average to say the most.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Their SS 98 match is trash. TRASH. Now there is a match with awful shitty brawling.


----------



## KingCannabis (Aug 28, 2007)

I won't watch it then haha. I remember when I did watch it so long ago, I didn't like it; so I have remembered correctly. About the Backlash 2002 match.

Yes, I do like their SummerSlam '98 match though. There's a couple cool spots & it wasn't boring to me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The head injury's didn't help that SS '98 match.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Any thoughts on Austin vs Taker from RAW 6/28/99? That's a goodie that doesn't get discussed enough. Only gripe with the match is it slows down at times but they eventually pick up the pace with some entertaining brawling.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Never watched that, but from description, sounds like the typical Austin/Taker match. Weird how two of the all-time greatest failed to have consistently good matches with each other.

And... Cal thinks Austin/Taker Backlash 2002 is ****+ while SS 1998 (which wasn't special but not too bad either) is pure trash. Well, what kind of sense can you ask from a guy that gave a positive review to TAKER/DUDLEYS FROM GAB 2004? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't forget I also shit all over ONS 05, and I always shit on the original ECW in general .

And yet, my opinion is still more valid than everyone else in this thread 8*D.

Main event of TT time now. Then the ramble shall be posted. PREPARE TO HATE ME SOME MORE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not to mention a ****1/4 rating to NWO 2002's Taker/Rock, AND the claim that Awesome/Tanaka was worse than the fucking Evening Gown Match from KOTR 2000 (the first was given 1/4* and the second **. Oh yes, I do my homework that much). *TROLL CAL.*

Inb4 HHH/Flair Cage gets a DUD because *Troll Cal* is in full action. Where's that Cal smiley when you need it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Evening Gown Match was hilariously awesome. Awesome/Tanaka was two retards no selling finishers and breaking tables for absolutely no reason beyond HUR DUR IT LOOKS KEWL.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I hope Cal gets punched in the face by La Parka.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'd :mark: for that tbh. Kinda like in Ready to Rumble when Caan and Arquette get punched by Sting. Except I'd get punched by a talented legend.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I hope you get punched by Kofi Kingston then.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well that's just mean .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh now the Sting hate, try to avoid the WWE Section, come in here and look what I effin' read.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Taboo Tuesday 2005*

Cage match :mark:.


*Chris Masters & Snitsky Vs Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio*

Raw Vs SD match. The internet voted who was involved in the match from Smackdown.

Edge is supposed to be Masters' partner but he bitches out and HOLY FUCK AT LITA FAP FAP. HOW DO HER TITS STAY IN HER OUTFITS?

Masters attacks Matt and Rey from behind as they await the arrival of Snitsky and gains the upper hand early on.

:lmao they have BOTH a Raw and a SD referee IN THE RING AT THE SAME TIME. Really trying to put over that brand split . They argue cos they keep getting in each other's way.

Little bit of Rey in Peril to start, then a hot tag to Hardy who comes in on fire and nearly kills Snitsky with a botched superplex:










And then Masters absolutely kills Matt with a clothesline and we get a Hardy in Peril segment.

WE WANT CHRISTIAN chants :mark:. He came second to last in the poll, only just beating out HARDCORE FUCKING HOLLY.

Awesome sequence with Snitsky countering a tornado DDT and throwing him right into Masters who catches him with a Master Lock!!!

They try to re-create the finish of Bret/Piper at WM... but Rey doesn't roll over and ends up just landing on top of Masters :lmao. One ref tries to make a count anyway even though Masters' shoulders aren't down, and the other ref physically stops him from counting :lmao.

In the end though, the SD guys get the win.

Fun opening tag. Few shitty moments thanks to Snitsky botching basic shit but overall decent.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Mick thinks his and Maria's luggage might have got mixed up. She's wearing a Mankind mask. Then she strips and gives all her clothes to him :lmao.

"Hey Mick, have a nice day!"

"I think I just did!"

"Not much upstairs, but what a staircase!"

:lmao


*Rob Conway & Tyson Tomko Vs Eugene & Jimmy Snuka*

So the fans get to vote in a legend to be Eugene's partner. Snuka wins it.

I'm honestly surprised Eugene is still a think this far into 2005. When does he turn heel again? :lmao

Oh, btw... No.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Carlito Vs Mankind*

The fans had the chance to pick with version of Foley faces Carlito. I was always pleasantly surprised that they picked Mankind rather than Cactus Jack, just because I always preferred Mankind .

I have to say though... WHY THE FUCK IS THIS MATCH EVEN A THING? Who thought it would be a good idea to put Foley in the ring with Carlito? I get wanting to put over young stars... but Carlito Vs Foley? I just don't get it lol.

Awesome to hear the old Mankind theme too. I like the whole "eeeeerrrrrrrghhhhh *CRASH* do doo do do do doo do do doo" theme as much as the next guy, but the original Mankind music is GOAT.

Poor Mick. He's moving at like 2mph, compared to the 1029928738743mph he was doing in 04 against Orton (at Backlash, anyway  ). He wanders through the match with his Mankind offence, until Carltio avoids a chair shot and poor Mick smashes his face into the chair into the steel steps .

Foley makes up for his lack of ring shape by taking an awesome bump off a dropkick, flying head first into the ring steps again.

Man, Carlito is dull as shit on offence. Seriously, they are wasting Foley on this match?

CACTUS CLOTHESLINE~!

CACTUS ELBOW~!

DOUBLE ARM DDT~!

MR SOCKO~! WITH AN AFRO~!

MANDIBLE CLAW~!

Mankind wins.

Well... Mankind winning makes this whole thing even MORE pointless lol. Carlito didn't look good in the match, his offence sucked and he lost. Yey.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Vince McMahon pays Bischoff a visit, wanting to know how the Raw Vs SD tag went. He can't believe Raw lost the match on a Raw PPV. He's disappointed in Bischoff.

We gotta find out who will enter the triple threat WWE championship match later tonight, so we also know who WON'T be in it, so they can team up to wrestle for the tag belts. Kane, HBK and Big Show are the options. WOW I WONDER WHO WILL WIN THIS? BET IT'S A CLOSE RACE. Huh, actually it was pretty close between Kane and HBK, but HBK wins. :lmao at HBK looking to get a handshake or a hug from Kane :lmao.


*Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs The Big Show & Kane - World Tag Team Championship Matcj*

TREVOR MURDOCH :mark:. HOW IS THIS GUY NOT ACTUALLY RELATED TO DICK MURDOCH? HE LOOKS JUST LIKE HIM!!! Then again Arn wasn't related to Ole and they looked just like each other lol.

WEIGHING 507... POUNDS AND 7 FEET TALL, THE BIG SHOW! :lmao

:lmao at Murdoch when he realises he's stuck between Kane and Big Show. He just spazzes out then walks into an uppercut :lmao.

Big Show seems genuinely PISSED OFF at Lance Cade, and absolutely batters him in the corner.

SWEET N SOUR ON THE FLOOR TO KANE~! That's when Murdoch chops the back of the knee and Cade clotheslines the guy at the same time.

Cade & Murdoch do a nice job of controlling Kane. They were a pretty good team at the time from what I remember. Shame they broke up and their careers in WWE were basically over from there.

In the end, the pure power of Kane and Show is too much for the tag champs. New champions!

Fun match.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


VADER. GOLDUST. THE COA...ch? LOL.

The divas all come out in sexy robes as we see what they will have to wear in the diva's battle royal later. Lingerie, Leather & Lace, or Cheerleader? LINGERIE WINS FAP FAP FAP.


*Batista Vs The Coach - Street Fight*

So this was either gonna be a street fight, verbal debate or arm wrestling match lol. I'M SHOCKED THE STREET FIGHT WAS PICKED. 91%?

Oh and this was also supposed to be Austin Vs The Coach, but Austin was in a "car accident". Which actually means WWE wanted COACH TO WIN and Austin told them to fuck off. So Batista replaced him!

GOLDUST AND VADER are here to help Coach. GOLDUST. VADER. WWE. 2005. That was fucking awesome. At least we have Goldust in the company still today . And we saw Vader last year too.

"SHALL WE DO THE RIGHT THING AND CALL COACH'S NEXT OF KIN? OR AT THE VERY LEAST FIND A NEW HOME FOR THE INFLATABLE WOMEN HE LIVES WITH?" :lmao Joey has had a TON of awesome lines all night btw.

Street fight means no DQ, so Coach can hide and let Vader & Goldust do the dirty work for him. VADER. GOLDUST.

KENDO STICK~! Goldust mauls Batista with a Kendo stick! THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR ELECTROCUTING HIM!!!

Vader and Goldust hold down Batista and Coach gives him the BELT. This only angers the animal.

SPINEBUSTER TO VADER~!

SLAP TO COACH~!

BATSTA BOMB TO COACH~!

Goldust survives without taking any major hits somehow lol.

Too short to be anything special, but immensely fun just to see VADER AND GOLDUST at this time.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


HBK gets interviewed. Angle shows up and offers to put their differences aside to they can take out Cena together then go at it one on one for the title. Shawn will think about it.


*Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James Vs Victoria Vs Maria Vs Ashley Vs Candice Michelle - Lingerie Fullfil Your Fantasy WWE Women's Championship Battle Royal*

LINERIE :mark:.

FAP.

MICKIE JAMES FAP FAP FAP BOUNCY BOUNCY BOUNCY FAP FAP FAP.

MARIA FAP FAP.

Trish is kinda boring in her attire tbh lol. Just basic bra and panties. Same with Victoria. In fact Victoria looks like she's in her normal ring gear .

Trish wins thanks to Mickie James constantly saving her and sacrificing herself.

FAP.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Ric Flair - WWE Intercontinental Championship Steel Cage Match*

:mark: been waiting to see this one again.

I never understood HHH's motive. He was out injured, and while gone Flair won the IC title and... HHH decided it was time for Flair to leave. Because... ummm... Flair won the IC title. Makes sense.

NOT.

Dammit now I wanna go watch Wayne's World. BRB 2 hours.

Aaaand back. Film still rules . Where was I? Oh yeah...

I like how instead of WWE giving us 2 shitty options and 1 real option, giving us the appearance of choice but really controlling it... for this match Flair comes out and basically orders the fans to vote for the cage match :lmao. No bullshit, no pretending you have a choice; flat out telling you he's having a cage match so vote for it!

Flair is fired up in the opening of this match, avoiding and blocking punches from HHH and coming back with punches and CHOPS of his own. WOOOOOO. He even goes toe to toe with THE GAME in a punch off and GETS THE BETTER of him!

A high knee causes the downfall of the Nature Boy though, and now HHH can begin to work on putting Flair DOWN. Which ain't gonna be easy because the NATURE BOY is still better than HHH even in his twilight years WOOOOO.

HHH sends Flair into the side of the cage and BLOOD~! Lawler even sarcastically comes out with "that didn't take long" :lmao.

Flair is awesome selling it though. You can hear him screaming "oh god, arrrghhhh" and shit :mark:. Especially after the knee drop to the face that HHH stole from Flair. He's just fecking awesome at making you believe he's in pain.

After some more shots into the side of the cage, punches to the face and another knee drop, HHH seems to think this is over and begins to climb out, only to stop and come back in when he sees that Flair is up and climbing the ropes to get him!

Not really a fan of HHH trying to climb out there. He hadn't done nearly enough to Flair to END HIS CAREER or anything. He was literally just trying to WIN the match, which this isn't about.

HHH again tries to climb out because... I dunno any more... but while trying to escape, he unhooks some chain by accident and decides "fuck it, amma go back and hit Flair with this", and the match continues .

FIGURE FOUR COUNTERED WITH A PUNCH TO THE FACE USING THE CHAIN~!

FLAIR KICKS OUT~!

"OH GOD, JESUS CHRIST ARRRGHHH!" More awesome selling from Flair :mark:.

:lmao the referee takes the chain away from HHH and the fans BOO. I guess they were hoping Flair would get it and use it? I dunno.

Flair is bleeding and hurting, and HHH is practically having FUN. He's slowly working over his former mentor, punching him in the face some more, dropping the knee onto the back of his head, and the ultimate insult; figure four leg lock!

:mark: Flair screaming I'LL KILL YOU at HHH while trying to reverse the figure four is the greatest thing I think I've ever seen since Micke James was bouncing around in lingerie earlier in the show FAP FAP FAP.

MIDDLE FINGER FROM FLAIR~! HE REVERSES THE FIGURE FOUR~!

HHH gets to the ropes and... the referee breaks the hold because... ummmm. NO DQ YOU DUMB FUCK.

HHH FACE FIRST INTO THE SIDE OF THE CAGE~!

HHH PULLS A FLAIR AND BLADES THE FIRST CHANCE HE GETS~!

FLAIR JUST CHARGES AND JUMPS AT HHH AND STARTS BITING HHH'S FACE :mark:. Flair is without a doubt the greatest of all time. Except for maybe TERRY FUNK. I think I need to go watch their matches later lol.

PAYBACK IS A BLOODY BITCH HERE TONIGHT AT TABOO TUESDAY~! Ha, that sounds a lot more ENGLISH when you read it, knowing it was written by me .

The Nature Boy is back in control, and now he's getting back into a grove, and it's VINTAGE FLAIR as he begins to work over the leg of HHH!!!

THE REAL FIGURE FOUR LEG LOCK~! HHH TRIES TO ESCAPE SO FLAIR THUMBS HIM IN THE EYE~!

"THERE IS A FOREARM RIGHT TO THE BALLS AND IT'S PPV SO I CAN SAY IT" :lmao Styles fucking rules tonight.

"HE'S GOT A HANDFUL OF NUTS! HE'S GOT THE TESTICULAR CLAW ON HHH!!!" :lmao this is the greatest thing ever.

Multiple chair shots to the fucking FACE of HHH, and this is a genuine reaction from a fan:










FLAIR WINS!!!

This. Is. Incredible. 

Truly. Incredible. 

I'd have to watch Backlund/Slaughter cage from 1981 again to see which is the best in company history.

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*


They announce they've had over 6 million votes tonight. I'd quite like to see TT/CS come back, maybe could be a WWE Network exclusive show, once the Network makes it to places other than NA of course lol.


*John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship Match*

Angle asked Shawn befoe this match to team up with him and take out Cena. HBK says he'll think about it. Angle attacks HBK after the bell and goes to work on Cena alone .

:lmao Angle botches ducking a clothesline... causing HBK to just club the side of his neck :lmao. Not what you need with a history of neck problems tbh .

ANGLE SPAMMING SUPLEXES~! AND I DON'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY LOOK AWESOME~!

Angle and HBK finally end up on the same page and the crowd POP like fuck because they are both mauling Cena :lmao. Man, Cena stopped being uber over pretty much the moment he won the title :lmao.

Remember the WM XX triple threat, when HBK and HHH stood on one announce table, and did the front suplex to Benoit through the OTHER table to take him out for a while and it looked brutal as fuck? Well here Angle and HBK do the same thing... but stood in front of the table, and it looks like absolute shit.

Yey just what this match needs... REST HOLD~! :lmao the fans actually start chanting for CENA to get back in and add some excitement to the match.

SUPER ANGLE SLAM~!

OMG THE MATCH DIDN'T END THERE I DID NOT EXPECT SUCH A THING TO HAPPEN DURING A KURT ANGLE MATCH HOW DID THAT HAPPEN THIS IS THE GREATEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE~!

Cena is back... and gets taken out not too long after. In fact, Angle throws him out into the crowd. Which is a bad idea because they hate him 8*D.

KIP UP~!

KIP UP AGAIN~!

RIGHT INTO AN OVERHEAD BELLY TO BELLY SUPLEX OVER THE ROPES~!

F-U COUNTERED INTO AN ANKLE LOCK~!

Cena sits in the hold for a couple of minutes until HBK shows up and Elbow Drops Angle to break it.

SUPER KICK~!

F-U~!

Cena retains.

Well this was... ok. Kinda fun. Typical WWE triple threat formula.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9.5*​


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So, I watched Tanaka/Awesome to see what the fuss was about and Cal's right. It sucks. They did the same crummy no-sell spots they did in 1997 and it's just as bad then as it was now. Also, Joey Styles is a horrid commentator.


EDIT: now hold on just a minute, playa, Cal doesn't have a single 5-star match in WWE's history?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> So, I watched Tanaka/Awesome to see what the fuss was about and Cal's right. It sucks. They did the same crummy no-sell spots they did in 1997 and it's just as bad then as it was now. Also, Joey Styles is a horrid commentator.
> 
> 
> EDIT: now hold on just a minute, playa, Cal doesn't have a single 5-star match in WWE's history?


Yey Rah agrees with me.

And I meant the greatest CAGE match in WWE .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Never been known for my comprehension skills, tbh.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

For once you were basically spot on with my thoughts of that show, Cal. Except a couple of differences in dem starz here and there (Flair/HHH I have at ****1/2, the opener at **1/2 for example), but you were there with what I thought.

So now what's next?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think I'm gonna start a REVOLUTION next.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

About time you ELIMINATE that PPV off the list. It's not that good of a show pardon the amazing Main Event.

These are puns are so great. They make Joel Schumacher's look like... well, Joel Schumacher's 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, I have an itch to watch the main event again so I'm gonna scratch it. 

Man, the top matches for 05 PPV's is already looking absolutely quality compared to the other years I've done... and I've only gone through 5 PPV's so far.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

I watched the cage match this afternoon and was hoping Cal would catch that girl's reaction :lmao

Such a terrific cage match. Flair's selling is ace. :lmao at the ref watching Flair pull the chair into the ring but not making an effort to retrieve it until Flair's back inside.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I think I'm gonna start a REVOLUTION next.


Cool, a Beatles reference. (not that you know of course )

WWE did edit a bit of Flair's cursing off the DVD mind you as far as i know, luckily i still have the live version.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Aye, I have an itch to watch the main event again so I'm gonna scratch it.
> 
> Man, the top matches for 05 PPV's is already looking absolutely quality compared to the other years I've done... and I've only gone through 5 PPV's so far.



The Highs in 2005 are GREAT, the lows suck. I gave Flair/Hunter TT the same rating as you, it's truly one of the greatest cage matches of all time.



The Fab Four said:


> Cool, a Beatles reference. (not that you know of course )
> 
> WWE did edit a bit of Flair's cursing off the DVD mind you as far as i know, luckily i still have the live version.


Yep I saved an unedited version on my computer for just that reason. It's just not the same without Flairs cursing. Hunter wasn't bad at all in that match with Flair, in fact he was really really good, but damnit Flair, at nearly 60 fucking MADE that thing a classic. Hunter could have that exact same match with say Shawn Michaels and it might not even get **** from me. Flairs selling, antics, fire, and all out passion took that from great to ALL TIME CLASSIC. At almost 60. Unbelievable. That's why I give Flair the top spot for greatest wrestler of all time, the longevity. Flairs my #1, Funk is my #2, and Eddie is my #3 for all time in the US.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Flair/HHH is phemonmal, I gave it the same rating when I watched. I'll go ahead and dub it the GOAT Cage, I've seen Blanchard/T.A, although very good I think flair/hhh smokes it. I'm a mark for Punk/Hardy, have yet to ever se Hardy/Edge for some God know what reason so that is a major contender as well and I may be the biggest fan of Orton/Flair on this site 

Need to rewatch it as I have seen it in about a years time, but I remember adoring HHH/Flair LMS just as much. Flair's performance is both a remarkable, its like a puppy dog beating beaten by a big bully and you have to get behind him

-----
Also wanted to know if I could get a list of all the major Benoit/Regal matches 

have so far :

velocity
no mercy
owen hart memorial show


Edit: I'm perfectly fine w/ Flair and Funk 1-2 but I think a would put quite a few ahead of Eddie

Edit: Eh dont think I'd put Funk 2nd either


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Flair/HHH, great cage match, but not even best cage match of the year, let alone all time. Much better than their okay LMS match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Urgh, forgot about their LMS match. I have to sit through that pile of shite again.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> -----
> Also wanted to know if I could get a list of all the major Benoit/Regal matches
> 
> have so far :
> ...


http://bigcaldiscs.webs.com/listings/bbbbbcomp.html

They had a couple more in 2006 too.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao at Starbuck's Punk erasure. She's still so bitter. Dude also beat Nash for what it's worth.


I said MAJOR matches. Jeez. Stop relating everything to your lover boy Punk. He's already got a 14 year old to do that for him 8*D.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Now, if they start having Trips lose to guys who ARENT stars, like they did with Jericho, then yea it's a problem.


This is what I'm getting at. I don't have a problem with him losing to anybody really since it's just fake fighting at the end of the day but the more they use him to put people over, the less effective he becomes at giving them a rub. Triple H doesn't lose anything from losing matches but the actual victory over him loses value. That's all I'm saying but apparently all some of you saw was HURR DURR LET HUNTER WIN ALL DA MATCHES. 

:HHH2

He should win all the matches.

Naitch/Haitch cage is *****3/4* for me too. Love that thing and I always :lmao'd at the reaction of that woman to the chair shots. Poor thing was clearly horrified.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Vader vs. Cactus Jack (WCW Saturday Night 04.17.1993)*



> Big Van Vader vs. Cactus Jack (WCW Saturday Night 04.17.1993) (Full Unedited Version from Mick Foley DVD)
> 
> *Includes aftermath and Vader/Race Interview*




Just a REPOST for those who havn't seen it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Flair/HHH is phemonmal, I gave it the same rating when I watched. I'll go ahead and dub it the GOAT Cage, I've seen Blanchard/T.A, although very good I think flair/hhh smokes it. I'm a mark for Punk/Hardy, have yet to ever se Hardy/Edge for some God know what reason so that is a major contender as well and I may be the biggest fan of Orton/Flair on this site
> 
> Need to rewatch it as I have seen it in about a years time, but I remember adoring HHH/Flair LMS just as much. Flair's performance is both a remarkable, its like a puppy dog beating beaten by a big bully and you have to get behind him
> 
> ...



Its the Pillman Memorial Show where Benoit and Regal tie up in an all time great match, Owen Hart Memorial is Bret and Benoit.

Use that link that Zep provided for the Benoit and Blue Bloods + Finlay comp for their major matches. I own that comp and it's one of the greatest things ever. 

The matches you absolutely HAVE to see are:

Pillman Memorial Show in 2000
Velocity 2005
Velocity 2006
No Mercy 2006

The others on Nitro and Smackdown are all really good as well, but you can't go through life without seeing those 4.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH lost all credibility to put people over when he lost to the Brooklyn Brawler 8*D.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Something that really bothers me about the Benoit/Regal matches is that in all four matches Regal taps out but in all four matches he takes about a combined five seconds of actually being in the crossface. He just taps out so fucking quick. Especially at No Mercy this bothered me. Everybody knows Regal as this tough sob but he taps out like a bitch in a second. He should've fought, slapped, scratched, and bitten until he finally tapped.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> HHH lost all credibility to put people over when he lost to the Brooklyn Brawler 8*D.


Just like Taker did when he got eliminated by MAVEN THE POPCORN MASTER in the Royal Rumble :taker.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Maven is a top 10 of all time so that's ok 8*D.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Starbuck said:


> Just like Taker did when he got eliminated by MAVEN THE POPCORN MASTER in the Royal Rumble :taker.


Some men just want to watch the world burn...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Starbuck said:


> Just like Taker did when he got eliminated by MAVEN THE POPCORN MASTER in the Royal Rumble :taker.


Maven is still in the Rumble dammit. That event was a false result.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

MAVEN THE GOAT. Actually no. BRAWLER THE GOAT. Imagine Brawler and Maven vs. Taker and Hunter in the ultimate tag team revenge match. :mark: Winner gets free popcorn for life. :mark: :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Chismo said:


> I hope you get punched by Kofi Kingston then.





#ROOT said:


> Well that's just mean .


It's Kofi Kingston. There'd be two feet of air between his fist and your face.




Pretty sure there are two Benoit/Regals in 2005 you want to see. 7/16/05 and 10/2/05. There's also a six minute match in 2001 that rules. I should really track down all of the Benoit/Finlay/Regal short matches from WCW one day, I bet some of those are amazing (and I know a couple of them are).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Something that really bothers me about the Benoit/Regal matches is that in all four matches Regal taps out but in all four matches he takes about a combined five seconds of actually being in the crossface. He just taps out so fucking quick. Especially at No Mercy this bothered me. Everybody knows Regal as this tough sob but he taps out like a bitch in a second. He should've fought, slapped, scratched, and bitten until he finally tapped.



No way, tapping quickly is way more realistic and it's smart in kayfabe terms for a heel to do it. If you watch an MMA fight, 9/10 if I guy catches another in something like a cross arm breaker, unless they are a total psycho like Royce Gracie, they tap pretty damn quickly. In those Regal matches, as well as the Finlay match at JD, the heel taps quick because a. They knew they were fucking caught and had no way of escaping b. They wanted to not endure a severe injury in kayfabe terms and c. Because it puts the Crossface over as being double devastating.

I've had this argument with people before and I'm generally outnumbered by people who prefer the WWE style of guys resisting the urge to tap when caught in a submission to build drama. In big matches, yea I can see why it's done, especially when it's the baby face caught in the submission. But if your the heel, why are you going to try and seem like a bad ass by resisting tapping? Your job is to make people NOT RESPECT you, so by tapping quickly it helps keep your heel heat. Mr. Perfect taps INSTANTLY when Bret catches him in the Sharpshooter at SS 91.

So yea, I'm a fan of heels tapping quickly to baby faces when they are caught dead center in the ring with a finishing hold. It's good psychology. Regal and Finlay are about as smart as any wrestler who ever laced a pair of boots. You better believe if they do anything in the ring, it's for a DAMN good reason.

Also- I seem to remember a certain Rattlesnake being turned face because he resisted the urge to tap to a finishing submission when he was caught dead center of the ring. I think my logic is sound


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks for spoiling it for me Guy (Y) , good thing I'm not a person who cares about results


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I agree with you to a point. You said "big match" and that's why I pointed out specifically, No Mercy. That was a big match for Regal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The NM match wasn't a big match though, it was made that night and Regal didn't even know his opponent.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This one is from (4/27/96) (WCW Saturday Night) 







This one is from (4/13/96) (WCW Saturday Night) 

Im sure they are both stiff of course, but one of them contains Regal hitting one hell of a clothesline. Can't watch them atm, but sure its one of these.  Defo on SN.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Thanks for spoiling it for me Guy (Y) , good thing I'm not a person who cares about results



:lmao dude the match happened in 06, only about 8 years ago. You shouldn't need spoiler tags to discuss a match that happened 8 years ago


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

In Your House VIII


*Triple H v. Marc Mero w/Sable *

This was OK, a lot better than I was expecting really. I’ll give Mero credit in that he was really good early on in the match. He actually was acting like a wild man in the ring and watching Triple H flop around for him and stuff was pretty great. Eventually Mero goes shoulder first into a ring post and then Triple H works the arm and shoulder for a good portion of the match. The arm work was pretty good and the selling was good as well. Not great as Mero would move around and his arm would look OK but he sold it at all other times. The ending was pretty weak and I think it’s the first time I’ve ever seen a match end with a catapult but I guess it worked. Triple H had the match won but he went after Sable and tried to rub his win in her face and it cost him the match. The pacing was a little slow but it was smartly worked and pretty good selling. Triple H was a fun heel at this point in his career as he was great at flopping around in the ring for the faces.
***½ *


_WWF Championship Match_
*The British Bulldog w/Owen Hart vs. Shawn Michaels(c)*

I’ve seen other matches from these guys and I had always been a fan but I wasn’t a huge fan of this. When they keep the pace quick it’s amazing to watch these guys. Things were going well at first because you would have Shawn and Bulldog do this awesome exchange before Shawn would lock in a hold. Bulldog would power out of the hold and we would get another awesome exchange that Shawn would come out on top of and lock in a hold. Things were fun when they did this but the match lost me a little bit when Bulldog took control of the match. I just wish he would use his power when he was in control of the match. He just went with some pretty generic holds for a while until Shawn was able to power up and get the comeback going. Now this didn’t have a clean ending at all but considering that the feud wasn’t over it made sense. I do have to say that Earl Hebner is the man for the amazing bump he took; Bulldog was whipped into him and he just launched himself through the ropes and onto the floor. There was some stuff that I really liked about the match but there was just too much down time for me to really get engrossed in it. Still good but they’ve had much better with each other.
*****


_Strap Match:_
*Steve Austin w/Ted Dibiase vs. Savio Vega*

I’ve seen this match a few times and it’s always awesome to watch. The pacing was great, I see where Austin is coming from now when he says that working with Savio got him in amazing ring shape. They just beat the shit out of each other the entire time and were always trying to win. A big pet peeve that I have when watching wrestling is that guys act like they’re guessed when they shouldn’t be. Here they slowed down but after watching the first 10 minutes of the match you can totally see why they had to slow down. I don’t think are many that would say that Austin isn’t great but this match really shows just how good he was at wrestling at an amazing pace. Most people can’t or don’t have matches like this. A blistering pace that went along with a really physical and hard hitting match. Can’t really ask for more.
******


*Vader w/Jim Cornette vs. Yokozuna* 

It took them a while to get going but after the first few minutes of Vader acting like he was afraid of Yokozuna things picked up and they had a very solid match. Vader relied more on his brawling and striking while Yokozuna actually tried to outwrestle him as he used some single leg takedowns that set up him working the leg. There were a few nice looking power moves and it’s always fun to see Vader of all people take a Samoan drop. I still feel like they could do better but this was solid enough for the limited time it got.
****


_Casket Match for the Intercontinental Championship:_
*The Undertaker vs. Goldust(c)*

I feel like this should have been amazing but they just don’t mesh that well. It was a solid back and forth brawl with good pacing. Nothing spectacular about but I really liked that Goldust was able to hang with Undertaker in a straight up fight. That being said I feel like he whole point of the match was for Mankind to debut and cost Undertaker the match. I feel like these two must have had a good match together at some point but this really wasn’t it.
***½*​
The Strap Match was awesome nothing else is really worth going out of the way to see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao RAW starts off with Vickie Guerrero turning face and Stephanie McMahon booking a match between the both of them. And then it leads to Harper and Rowan coming into the ring with the worst theme music I've ever heard. Well, at least we get to see The Usos and 2/3 of the family.

Cal was very on point with that review. I did kinda like the main event of Taboo Tuesday since it was the only time where Michaels and Angle had very good synergy. Once again though, it's a good thing that Vader and Goldust didn't return in 2005 because both were in terrible, terrible shape. Vader botched climbing down the apron! Be thankful that we didn't get to witness a guaranteed car crash. But then again, 2005 gave us Chris Masters and Carlito in extended periods. Masters in particular may have been the worst wrestler on the roster. All his matches consisted of him doing a headlock and a couple awful punches until he applied the Masterlock. Never would any of us have imagined that this same man was really one of the most talented babyfaces in the business.

I'm kinda on the side that likes dramatized and lengthy submission hold segments, but I thought Benoit and Regal did a great job of structuring a match where a quick tapout made perfect sense. The drama was in the attempt of the application, not in the application itself. Now in reality, simply locking in the submission should be enough for a victory, but wrestling isn't meant to be realistic. It's meant to be logical.

Usos/Wyatts will be my choice for sleeper hit. Those two matches and post-match beatdown were on point.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I watched the Wyatts entrance and thought to myself that it is literally impossible to find a good way to walk to the ring to that entrance music as a heel.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

GREAT Barrett/Ziggler match... really great. Gonna be tough to top that as MOTN. Going ***3/4. I'd have to check, but pretty sure Barrett's had more good-great matches in the last 2 and a half months than he did in the first 4 years. The man's improved quite a bit. Even gave us arguably the best Roman Reigns' singles match to date (not saying much since the match wasn't good, but still...)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Loved that Barrett/Ziggler match as well. The callback spots to the Smackdown match were done very well. I also loved the way Ziggler crawled to Barrett after hitting the top rope X-factor. Classic babyface mannerisms. And then Ziggler pulling his hair after not getting the pinfall. Really made the match better as Ziggler has a tendency of spamming near falls, which isn't a bad thing, but when the near falls don't carry on a feeling of importance, then they're just empty moves. That match certainly didn't have empty near falls. And Barrett. This man has improved so much. Or maybe it's just that he's found his niche. That bullhammer was sick!


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

That Ziggler vs Barrett match was a blast. Ziggler's babyface performance was terrific with his comebacks being well-paced. He had me believing that he could win the I.C title at any point during the match. Barrett was great in this as well and that Bullhammer looked awesome, especially the way Ziggler sold it. Hes definitely improved a great deal. Easily becoming a fan of his.

:lmao at Big E preaching.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm expecting the title match to suck HARD, especially with the newest addition fpalm fpalm fpalm


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm getting really annoyed by the repetitiveness and sheer laziness in the match making recently. We just had the exact same main event on back to back shows and now Sheamus vs. Wyatt is happening for the 3rd time in the last month or so. We just saw Barrett vs. Ziggler for like the 3rd time in a month as well. Maybe longer but still. The handicap match tonight was literally the exact same thing from Smackdown for about 60% of the match.

EDIT: I just saw Barrett/Ziggler was for the IC Title. That I can be ok with.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Ziggler/Barrett nearfalls!!! Imma Ziggler mark and my heart exploded every time. Thats how you work a crowd.

BUT GODDAMNIT ONLY IF ZIGGLER WON... IMAGINE THE POP WALKING INTO MITB AS THE IC CHAMPION! And then he can feud Barrett at Battleground. Oh man, a fan can dream I guess.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

See some praise for a Ziggler/Barrett match on Raw, so I'm gonna have to check that out. I see both Ziggler and Barrett are in the contract MITB match. Ziggler should put up an excellent performance even though he's definitely not winning. Absolute shame.


----------



## Gretchen (Jun 17, 2013)

Just watched Barrett/Dolph. 

Damn good match. Holy fuck was the crowd into this match. The reactions Ziggler's near falls got were amazing. Especially for someone who seems to always lose. Great match between my two current favorites in the WWE.As for Dolph, why doesn't the WWE just push this man?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> EDIT - Did I just read the phrase "HHH needs some wins"? :lmao


Have you ever seen an addict detox off drugs? It's exactly like that.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Rollins/BNB/Swagger vs Ziggler/Kofi/RVD announced for Main Event.

Love the heel team but Kofi and Van Dam together :lmao :lmao

If the heels keep Ziggler isolated and do a good workover on him, can be good. Looking forward to this. Hope it gets around 20 minutes before the inevitable Ambrose interference.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

PART 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35168058-post1158.html
PART 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35207825-post1224.html
PART 3: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35382714-post1401.html
PART 4: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35724370-post1806.html
PART 5: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35757778-post1922.html

PART 6
(200-181)

#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003









#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003









#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003









#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005









#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007









#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown









#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001









#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005









#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007









#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990









#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006









#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003









#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002









#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998









#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time









#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006









#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005









#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008









#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010









#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008








*​*
*


Spoiler: list so far



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Legit lol'd at the Harper-Rowan entrance music. They gonna change if right?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

What is the general consensus on Show/Taker from NWO 03? Kudos to ATF.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Generally it's liked, even by Show-hating audiences. As far as I'm concerned, it's awesome. A badass hoss fight like only those two can. Think their manly fight from No Mercy 2008, only not quite as good, but still great.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I've actually watched it and wanted to know If people love it as much as I do. As for the No Mercy comparison, I felt they were quite different, one was long control segment orientated which was damn good because of Show's heel performance (NWO 2003) and the other was ended by a decisive blow and with them being on even level beforehand- introducing the punch finisher perfectly (No Mercy 2008). 

Both great matches but I'd give the edge to No Way Out 2003 because of how well the pacing was, curious to hear others' input.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NM 08 > CS LMS > NWO 03 > SD Cage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SVS Casket.

Then they have about a million matches on Raw and SD going back to 1999, most of which are fun.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> NM 08 > CS LMS > NWO 03 > SD Cage >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SVS Casket.
> 
> Then they have about a million matches on Raw and SD going back to 1999, most of which are fun.


So you're telling me the casket match is only ****3/4?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If you missed of the minus then yes, it's only -****3/4 .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd put the LMS match ahead of NM personally.

And yeah, the Casket match SUCKS. But it's still better than the KOTR 2002 Main Event. AND, *cough*cough* here it comes... BACKLASH 2002 VS AUSTIN. BURN. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The only person who will BURN is you. IN HELL. For having such a shitty opinion 8*D.

Speaking of shitty... half way through NYR 05! Yey! Only 1 match to sit through and then it's the ELIMINATION CHAMBER!!!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FUCK OFF. My opinions are AMAZING. 

And fyi Backlash '02's MOTN is RVD/Eddie easily. 2nd best is the very good Kidman/Tajiri. 3rd best is the solid Edge/Angle. 4th best is the fun Lesnar/Jeff. EVERYTHING ELSE SUCKS BALLS. 8*D

Good for you that you made it through the bad parts of NYR '05 though. That PPV is a total one-match-show if there ever was one. Still better than The Great American Bash from the same year.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

As bad as Taker/Austin was, Hogan/Hunter was WMOTN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

^ that is true. Hogan/Taker from JD wasn't way better tbh. Better yes, but still kinda sucked imho.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH in 2002 was just a monstrous pile of wank. So many bad matches :lmao.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> HHH in 2002 was just a monstrous pile of wank. So many bad matches :lmao.




I think he was even worse in 03. Matches with Steiner, Goldberg, Kane, Nash were all fucking terrible. 

I feel like watching his match with Steiner at RR 03 for some laughs


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He just had a terrible 2 year run after he returned in 2002 lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, his 2003 was worse, no doubt. Although HHH/Steiner RR 03 reminds me of Batman & Robin in the aspect of it being so Godawful it was hilarious and entertaining at that.

Now that I think about it, he still had both the Flair & Michaels matches on Raw in 03, whereas I'm struggling to think of any good singles match he was on in 02 bar SS vs Michaels, which has gone down A LOT on rewatch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> FUCK OFF. My opinions are AMAZING.


Nope, both your opinions suck. 

I'm the only one here who has flawless opinions! 

I think I'm one of the few who enjoys Hogan vs Undertaker from Judgment Day, enough to give 3 and a quarter stars. Pretty fun match even with the botched chokeslam.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

People still think anything beneficially will happen to Ziggler ? :lel ship sailed a while back, will always have Payback 13 + cash-in. Ziggler/Barrett was average to me, Ziggler played a great FIP in all, but Barrett offense is just soo bland to me, its so generic like a CAW from the video games


Poor Guy still cares :lel :http://www.wwe.com/videos/is-tonight-dolph-zigglers-night-wwe-app-exclusive-june-23-2014-26424851


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wonder if Cal decided to watch another movie before concluding his review :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Wonder if Cal decided to watch another movie before concluding his review :lol


No I have not... I'm playing a game instead .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> What is the general consensus on Show/Taker from NWO 03? Kudos to ATF.


Amazing. Not enough erections can come from watching it. That sort of thing. It is Undertaker vs Big Show, after all. Casket match never happened.

God damn Big Show has had a stellar career once WWF/WWE started letting him WORK.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.co.uk/

Anyone know that 'Andy'? Been enjoying reading his blog.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

GOD OF CUNT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> GOD OF CUNT.


Oh, thanks Cal. I know him.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Right, so you when do you finish the ramble then?


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The only blog that can inspire me to write my thoughts on the majority of things I watch (which has been ongoing for almost a year and a half now) but also uninspire me to make a blog of it because it'll suck major arse in comparison. So instead I keep everything on a notepad on my computer hidden away to the world. Hurray. 

:hb


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Right, so you when do you finish the ramble then?


Well I gotta WATCH the EC match. Including entrances it's about an hour. Oh and I'm making food, so I'll be eating that at some point, and I don't like to watch something I'm rambling on while eating because I can't type AND eat at the same time, so I'll have to pause it while I eat.

Check back next week 8*D.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Oh, thanks Cal. I know him.





Flux said:


> The only blog that can inspire me to write my thoughts on the majority of things I watch (which has been ongoing for almost a year and a half now) but also uninspire me to make a blog of it because it'll suck major arse in comparison. So instead I keep everything on a notepad on my computer hidden away to the world. Hurray.
> 
> :hb



Big, big fan of that guys blog. Don't know him but I randomly stumbled upon it one night and read almost the entire thing in one 3 hour sitting. I'm a decent writer, but I suck ass at writing match reviews and that blog inspires me to work at it. I've got a legal pad with a dozen or so reviews I never bothered posting because I doubt anyone would care to read them.

Big Show/Taker NWO 2003 is sublime. That match, along with CS and NM 08' are my 3 favorite Big Show matches, and I think ATF is under rating it along with Eddie/RVD and a few others. Show + Taker + 10-12 minutes = goodness. Those two throwing bombs are clashing like two titans never gets old. Plus Show is one of the few guys who puts Taker in physical jeopardy, so it just adds another level of desperation to Takers already world class selling and firey come backs.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I would say that RVD/Eddie may have been a little underrated, but considering it was basically nothing more than The Eddie Guerrero Show, I wouldn't put it much higher either. ***3/4 is still a massive rating, even though it is kinda low on the list. Same for Taker/Show NWO - despite it being as well executed as it could with the given stuff in it, I feel like that rating is about perfect for me. And despite it still being great, I felt NM and CS were both much better too (gave NM **** and CS ****1/4).

Surprised no one was pissed off that I had HBK/Batista ONS over both of those on the list. But tbh, it deserved it imo - it was perfect for what it was. If Brock/Show didn't exist, it would definitely be the GOAT Stretcher match.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Brock/Show...Thats the GOAT Big Show match folks, my top 5 Big Show matches would look like this 

1: vs Brock Stretcher 
2: vs Taker NM 
3: vs Taker CS 
4: vs Taker NWO 03 
5: vs Henry Vengeance 2011


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Fuck all y'all.

Kane vs. Big Show KOTR '99 or bust.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Big, big fan of that guys blog. Don't know him but I randomly stumbled upon it one night and read almost the entire thing in one 3 hour sitting. I'm a decent writer, but I suck ass at writing match reviews and that blog inspires me to work at it. I've got a legal pad with a dozen or so reviews I never bothered posting because I doubt anyone would care to read them.
> 
> Big Show/Taker NWO 2003 is sublime. That match, along with CS and NM 08' are my 3 favorite Big Show matches, and I think ATF is under rating it along with Eddie/RVD and a few others. Show + Taker + 10-12 minutes = goodness. Those two throwing bombs are clashing like two titans never gets old. Plus Show is one of the few guys who puts Taker in physical jeopardy, so it just adds another level of desperation to Takers already world class selling and firey come backs.


Great matches and horrible matches are easy enough to write reviews. It's the average matches that are really tough to write about for me. Trying to explain why the match wasn't that great but also saying how it was partially good as well. I've been trying to do them for a while so I think I'm fairly good at it but some matches can be tough to really talk about.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I basically gave up reviewing matches . RAMBLES ALL THE WAY~!

I only go into "review mode" for matches I think deserve it (most Undertaker matches... ).

Watching the EC match now. NO MORE INTERRUPTIOOOOO SHINY!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, I decided to rewatch both Flair/HHH PPV matches.

I hadn't watched the Cage match in a long while, but seeing Cal review it gave me something to think. I had it at ****1/2 before this rewatch, if just because I never thought the pace of this match was that good beforehand. But upon this time, I realized that I was watching one of the most flawless matches in WWE history as far as I'm concerned. And yes, I felt the pace was superb this time around. Ric Flair's performance was SUBLIME. Like, absolutely perfect. His selling consisting of "fuck you" and "Jesus Christ" and screaming and middle fingers... goosebumps, just dem GOOSEBUMPS. And his offence? Even better. Biting the face of Hunter, going for H's quad, doing the TESTICULAR CLAW, my God if this match doesn't convince anyone Ric motherfucking Flair is the greatest of all time, I'm not sure what will. HHH put on a pretty good performance too, with his constant mockery of Flair and initial brutalization too (even though his selling of the quad was kinda iffy, only flaw to the match but one that took away a little), but seriously, Ric Flair is the star of this match and it's not even close. Joey Styles did a great job on commentary too, putting over Flair's fighting back and HHH's viciousness. And him doing the "YES! YES! YES!" thing (years before Bryan made it cool) at the end when Flair won was just as satisfying as Flair's actual victory. It was a gory fest of blood too and that only added to the incredible spectacle. This was one of the greatest examples of storytelling WWE has ever produced. And I never watched Backlund/Slaughter (definitely should though), but from those that I've seen, this is the WWE's greatest cage match ever, bar none. *****3/4.*

The LMS match is definitely the most disregarded match of the two by far in this forum. Even though the "outsiders" rank it higher than the Cage match from what I see, but that's not the point. However, doesn't make it any less of an amazing bloody fight for me. Obviously not anywhere near as good as the Cage match, but that's like saying that the Taker/Shawn Casket match is not anywhere near as good as the WM 25 or 26 matches. It is still damn great. Flair again put on an inspired performance with some very good selling and comebacks, even if he unfortunely didn't lock on Fucking GOAT Mode like he did in the Cage match, but he was definitely close to reaching those levels. He really put emphasis on his Dirtiest Player in the Game gimmick by attacking HHH's balls almost the entire match... yeah, I had to say it. Not only that, but every time he rallies up only to go back down again is exciting, and other subtle stuff like him biting HHH's leg while building to the Figure-4 was excellent. But this match was way more Triple H centered, and he does a very nice job, with a cold, calculating asshole performance that seems like he's really taking enjoyment out of beating his old best friend. From attacking Flair during his entrance, to the screwdriver attacks, to the end where he coldly puts Flair out are the moments to think about his performance. Also, they didn't really go Spotamania like many LMS matches (only the announce table spot was worth talking about), and they didn't spam the counts. That being said, flaws like HHH's again iffy selling of the leg, a more unfocused pace and slightly duller feeling do bring it down. Still, a terrific match anyway and probably one of WWE's best LMS matches. And FUCK YOU for hating it. I'm talking about YOU, Mr. Taker/Austin Backlash 2002. I'll never stop calling you out for it 8*D. ******


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*New Years Revolution 2005*

Vacant is the WHC, something he'd go on to do a bunch of times after this. But tonight he must forfeit the title and let 6 men fight for it inside the ELIMINATION CHAMBER.


*Christian & Tyson Tomko Vs William Regal & Eugene - World Tag Team Championship Match*

CHRISTIAN :mark:.

REGAL :mark:.

Eugene is wearing a Hogan style T-Shirt with Eugene written on it.

:lmao at Regal having to remind Eugene to hold the tag rope.

CHRISTIAN AND REGAL STARTING THIS MATCH OFF :mark:.

Eugene comes in and... does a WEDGY to Christian. We went from Christian and Regal chain wrestling to a fucking WEDGY. And honestly I'm not that mad :lmao. It was kinda funny .

:lmao Eugene is pretty great at doing some comedy. He does a little JYD headbutts then pretends to piss on Christian like a dog :lmao.

Tomko gets tagged in and Eugene looks pretty scared. So what does he do? Runs out of the ring and high fives some fans :lmao. Christian and Tomko go after him, so he runs under the ring, but comes out from the same side and outsmarts Christian and Tomko :lmao.

Man, the ring set up looks weird as they have a huge space for the announcer's table, but the Raw table during this time was at the top of the ramp. Usually there is a spanish announce table but for some reason there isn't one tonight. So we have a giant empty space lol.

Eugene finally takes a bit of a beating, then Regal tags in and it's time for him to play FIP, and Regal does great thanks to all his mannerisms and screams and shit. He's kinda like Flair in that respect when it comes to selling.

REGAL'S NOSE IS BLEEDING. I swear the guy just needs to sneeze and his nose bleeds :lmao.

CHRISTIAN AND TOMKO TARGET THE NOSE :mark:. Well, a little bit, anyway lol. Enough for me to :mark:.

Regal is about to get the tag, but Christian sneaks round and pulls him off the apron! THOSE SNEAKY HEELS! THEY BE EVIL!!!

Nice workover on Regal, then the hot tag to Eugene!!! He comes in like a house on fire and then... fucks his knee up on a dropkick.

Nobody is sure what to do, so Christian throws Regal outside and goes after him while Eugene rolls Tomko up for the pin almost as unconvincing as Austin at SummerSlam 97 lol.

Match was pretty good until the injury ruined the ending.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Edge is there to greet Christian after the loss. Edge has an offer for his former tag partner and sort of brother. It's about being the WHC. Wow, so they planned Edge's retirement in 2011 and Christian winning the WHC all these years ago? 


*Trish Stratus Vs Lita - WWE Women's Championship Match*

So at Survivor Series a couple of months earlier, they have one HELL of a fight. Lita got DQ'd pretty much straight away but absolutely mauled Trish in one of the best female FIGHTS I've seen in WWE. So their payoff match to that WAS on Raw, a match I need to go back and see. And this is the... payoff to the payoff apparently. Unfortunately I do believe I remember this match .

FAP FAP FA... NO! Must concentrate! I actually want to watch this for the WRESTLING.

They lock up and Lita powers Trish down and tries to slam her head into the floor :mark:.

Lita sends Trish to the floor, and hits a Thez Press off the apron and... fucks her knee up .

LITA KICKS OUT STILL THOUGH!!!

"TRISH HAS MOUNTED LITA" :mark:.

Man, Trish really goes to work on the LEGIT INJURED KNEE of Lita. Ouch! Eugene pussied out and ended the match straight after his injury... LITA IS STILL FIGHTING AND LETTING TRISH ATTACK THE INJURY!

Lita attempts a DDT, but she simply can't do anything with her injury. CHICK KICK~! Trish is the new women's champion .

Disappointing match due to the injury . Poor Lita . I definitely need to see their Raw match now though. Gotta give Lita major probs for continuing as long as she did though.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


2 matches and 2 knee injuries .

So, the WHC plan Edge had with Christian wasn't the 2011 stuff . Turns out Edge wants Bischoff to replace him with CHRISTIAN in the Elimination Chamber match, because Edge doesn't trust HBK to be a fair referee. And then the winner faces Edge on Raw the next night. Bischoff says no. 

Edge runs into HBK backstage, and HBK tells him he will be a fair referee... unless something were to happen and someone placed their hands on him. I have faith in HBK, he's ALWAYS a great referee! :lmao


*Shelton Benjamin Vs Maven - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Wow, Maven really got that PUSH on Raw around this time. Main evented Survivor Series, his team won and he got to run Raw for a week where he booked himself in a WHC match against HHH. and Now he's... turned heel and going after the IC title on PPV!

Anyone else love the Tough Enough/Maven theme?

Stall. Stall. More Stall. Bit more Stall.

The fans shit over Maven. So he grabs a mic and bitches at them right back lol.

I'm guessing this was done to waste time because the Lita/Trish match was cut short.

Maven decides to leave and face Shelton in the USA instead (they are in Ouerto Rico btw).

Maven then decides he does want to have the match now. And gets rolled up immediately :lmao.

Maven wants a rematch right now. Calls Shelton a women so he comes for another match.

T-Bone and this is over in seconds again :lmao.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Jerry Lawler Vs Muhammad Hassan*

Fuck me this is boring and shitty. Hassan sits in a Camel Clutch for about a billion years and the crowd is SILENT during it all :lmao. And that isn't even the finish :lmao.

Hassan takes a nice bump from a DDT. That's about as nice as I'm gonna get for this match.

BOOOOORING.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Kane Vs Snitsky*

Kane returns after Snitsky destroyed him at TT. He's still after revenge for the whole dead baby thing. Come on Kane, that was months ago. Ain't you over it YET? Lita seems to be!

Match is definitely a big man brawl, but not really a very good one. Too slow and sluggish for my liking. I'm too used to seeing Undertaker throw 10 punches in a matter of seconds and use more speed in general .

BEAR HUG~! Just what this match needed! Said nobody ever.

Fuck me this is dragging lol.

SNITSKY BITING KANE'S EAR~!

TOMBSTONE~!

This is finally fucking over. 

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Triple H Vs Batista Vs Randy Orton Vs Edge Vs Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - Special Guest Referee: Shawn Michaels - World Heavyweight Championship Elimination Chamber Match*

:mark: considered this the best Elimination Chamber match ever for a long time now. Always holds up and I expect nothing less today.

Match begins, and we get to see Benoit and Jericho go at it alone first :mark:. Always fun to see these two hook it up, especially after their awesome 00/01 feud. In fact I think they have a submissions match on Raw a month or so after this. At least, I *think* that was in 2005 .

We get a nice, fun 5 minutes of those two beating each other down. Nothing out of this world, but when you have those 2 doing basic shit it's better than 90% of guys trying to put on an epic. Speaking of being shit at trying to put on an epic...

HHH IS THE NEXT GUY OUT~!

:lmao oh yes I'm proud of myself for that one .

BTW, it's nice to watch this match with the commentary IN TACT, unlike the Elimination Chamber DVD set that edits most of the Benoit stuff out. Come on WWE. Yeah, don't advertise the guy and shit, but if the MATCH is on a set then don't fuck with it.

BENOIT IS BLEEDING~! Ya know, I just had a thought; how often has Benoit bladed? I mean... off the top of my head I can't remember ANY TIME he's bled in a match that hasn't been something like his nose or lips, that have always happened the HARD WAY. And about 6 people are gonna read this and list about a million matches where Benoit bladed .

Edge comes out next. Crazy to think that they built him up to win the title for OVER A YEAR. He turned heel in late 04 and from there was on a quest for the title, winning MITB and finally cashing in at NYR 06. These days if WWE start building someone to a title win and they haven't won on their first attempt then WWE are stupid and are trying to bury the guy .

Both Jericho and HHH TASTE THE STEEL CHAINS thanks to Edge, who is starting to get on a roll. Jericho is now bleeding too.

CROSSFACE~! EDGE ESCAPES BEFORE IT CAN BE LOCKED IN~!

:lmao HHH's nose is bleeding. Not like a normal nose bleed, but the bridge of the nose :lmao. Well, it IS the first thing that hit the chain .

PEDIGREE TO JERICHO~! Jericho practically BOUNCES off the mat from it. Looked awesome. But HHH can't capitalise!

I HEAR VOICES IN MY HEAD THEY COUNCIL ME THEY UNDERSTAND THEY TALK TO ME... AND TELL ME TO NOT BE AS TALENTED AS I WAS A DECADE AGO APPARENTLY~!

Yeah, Orton is next in. He wants him some of THE GAME and wastes no time beating the shit out of his former mentor. RANDY ORTON IS OVER AS A BABYFACE IN THIS MATCH~! I don't know what is more shocking; Sabu not botching that dive at ONS or Orton being over as a face in early 2005 8*D.

Jericho is back up and in the ring after that VICIOUS Pedigree and... RKO :lmao. Poor guy can't catch a break .

CROSSFACE TO ORTON SORT OF BUT NOT QUITE~! HHH starts trash talking Orton while Benoit has the hold applied... so Benoit decides to fuck HHH up and lets Orton go and locks THE GAME in the Sharpshooter!!!

RKO TO BENOIT~!

Edge is in the corner waiting for Orton to get up and... SPEAR~! ORTON MOVES AND EDGE LEVELS HBK!!!

SPEAR TO ORTON~! But HBK is still down! Edge gets him up and SUPER KICK~! LIONSAULT~! EDGE IS THE FIRST MAN ELIMINATED FROM THIS MATCH!!!

DIVING HEADBUTT FROM THE TOP OF A CHAMBER POD RIGHT ONTO HHH! JERICHO LOCKS IN THE WALLS OF JERICHO, BENOIT APPLIES THE CROSSFACE, AND THE CLOCK COUNTS DOWN FOR BATISTA TO ENTER!!! THE CHAIN GETS STUCK AND THE CHAMBER WON'T OPEN STRAIGHT AWAY!!! OMG THE DRAMA! WILL HHH HOLD ON LONG ENOUGH?!?!

Yes. Yes he did. Batista steamrolls over every motherfucker he gets his hands on. SPINEBUSTER TO ORTON~!

A bloody, battered HHH walks into Batista, and they tease the Animal tearing apart his Evolution buddy, until they get interupted by everyone else in the match.

BATISTA KILLS JERICHO AND A CAMERA MAN~!

SPINEBUSTER TO BENOIT~! SPINEBUSTER TO JERICHO ONTO BENOIT~! BENOIT IS OUTTA HERE!!! BATISTA IS FUCKING DOMINATING!

Lawler keeps calling the Spinebuster a Batista Bomb. So much so that even JR starts calling it a Batista Bomb :lmao.

I like how HHH is just constantly having to fight Orton, while Batista is in the ring crushing everyone else.

:lmao HHH gives Batista the thumbs up after Jericho is eliminated... then he walks right into a back body drop from Orton... ON THE STEEL. Ouch. That gotta fucking hurt.

It's 2 on 1 now for poor Randy Orton, as his former Evolution buddies team up to kill him. Ha.

HHH and Batista take turns at trying to eliminate Orton, but the Legend Killer keeps kicking out.

Fuck me at that clothesline. No, not the one from Batista that ends the match... but one from HHH that absolutely turns Orton inside out. I mean DAMN, HHH murders him with it. Here, have a look:










Orton mounts a comeback! RKO TO BATISTA!!! HE GOES FOR THE COVER! In the background, we see HHH stand up... and then decide against it. HE JUST LET BATISTA GET ELIMINATED BECAUSE HE'S SCARED BATISTA WOULD BEAT HIM!!!

RKO TO HHH~!

But Batista is still in the ring! Flair causes a distraction and Batista runs over Orton with his brutal clothesline!

HHH slowly gets back up, hits the Pedigree and wins his 10th World Title!

By god this match still rules the planet and everything on it. Incredible. Still the absolute BEST chamber match ever, with none of them even coming close tbh, even if the STARS aren't that far off for a couple of them.

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 9*​


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You UK fuckers get everything...

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-list-best-of-wwe-main-event-dvd/68324/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> You UK fuckers get everything...
> 
> http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/match-list-best-of-wwe-main-event-dvd/68324/


I'm actually considering buying my first ever WWE magazine to get that lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Awesome review Cal. To answer your question, I don't think Benoit OR Jericho bladed much in their careers. Although they are the kings of walking out of matches with busted lips, bleeding mouths, and bleeding noses. Those two were just so physical they always ended up with a little blood here or there. But other than that match, I really can't recall them blading any other time. Maybe Jericho blades in the LMS match with Trips but it's a really weak one if he does.

That 2005 chamber is never getting topped. I don't see how it's possible. The amount of world title reigns in that ring is staggering, all guys are HoF worthy wrestlers at the top of their game.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Awesome review Cal. To answer your question, I don't think Benoit OR Jericho bladed much in their careers. Although they are the kings of walking out of matches with busted lips, bleeding mouths, and bleeding noses. Those two were just so physical they always ended up with a little blood here or there. But other than that match, I really can't recall them blading any other time. Maybe Jericho blades in the LMS match with Trips but it's a really weak one if he does.
> 
> That 2005 chamber is never getting topped. I don't see how it's possible. The amount of world title reigns in that ring is staggering, all guys are HoF worthy wrestlers at the top of their game.


Yeah, in terms of Jericho and blood, this match is right up there:

Thrill Seekers vs. The Heavenly Bodies (8/5/94)






Jericho tried a dumbass flashy move in training prior to the match (shooting star press I believe), and he fucked up his arm, so he effectively wrestled left handed.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The 2005 chamber match is absolutely the greatest. Nothing from that gimmick tops it EVER. I'm confident in saying it. The star power and action is just unfuckwithable. Although they did well this year with another great all-star match.

In regards to Benoit blading, I can't recall too many instances either. I know he bladed in the HBK match for the World Title, he bladed in the cage match with Edge in 2004 and.... yeah. Struggle to think of anything else, even Attitude Era stuff. He did get fucked up by a ladder shot the week before WM21, though. He bled buckets there and had the stitches going into MITB I where he got opened up again from the headbutt off the ladder. But bleeding the hard way is dime a dozen with him.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I really need to rewatch Snitsky vs. Kane because I swear last time I saw it I really enjoyed it... Unless they had another match that I could be confusing it with.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wrote this in another thread and knew this was being discussed :



> *Chris Benoit vs. William Regal ~ 5/25/00*
> 
> - Really good match here, this was the Pillman Memorial Show. These two just trading counter after counter to try and get the upper hand of the other but to no avail. Seemed like every move they were doing was to trying and set something else up. Real nice limb work was done in this one, I really liked this because it didnt feel like a wwe match and felt organic. They werent playing up the crowd or doing any character work, just straight wrassling and trying to beat the other guy. Cole/Prichard do a fine fine job in the booth ( Wish Cole was more like this ) informative, kept putting the match/wrestlers over and were actually discussing the match and stating info that was helpful to the views. It's crazy watching this all I'm currently watching their whole series that this much seemed to not even scratch the surface of their top stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

I'm kinda tired of listing each part, so here goes the list so far before this part's entries:​*


Spoiler: list before Part 7



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008



*PART 7
(180-161)

#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014









#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994









#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001









#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004









#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013









#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009









#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012









#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009









#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010









#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013









#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999









#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008









#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000









#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004









#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009









#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987









#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011









#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012









#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011









#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005








*​


Spoiler: Updated list



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just finished listening to the Jericho Podcast with Drew McIntyre. I'm gonna miss that dude. Hope he kills it on the indie scene and in Japan and forces WWE to bring him back and give him a push.

Here are 2 of my favorite D-Mac matches:

vs Chris Masters Superstars






vs Daniel Bryan Superstars


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Have you ever seen an addict detox off drugs? It's exactly like that.


Are you calling me a drug addict? 

So much love for matches I love in this thread atm. :mark:

80% of Raw last night was awesome. Steph/Vickie is a MOTYC for sure.

Ziggler still sucks. So does Barrett. 8*D


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

While the 2005 chamber match as a whole is objectively the best, the ending of the 2002 chamber provides the greatest moment, which I am a huge sucker for. I'm a huge fan of some of the 2008-2009 matches also, but none top the 2005 affair.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Flux said:


> I really need to rewatch Snitsky vs. Kane because I swear last time I saw it I really enjoyed it... Unless they had another match that I could be confusing it with.


Big Show/Snitsky Unforgiven 05? That match is awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Speaking of Elimination Chamber, I'm rewatching Shield/Wyatt's and it's just rocking my world. Best American trios match since the 1992 WCW Eaton/Anderson/Zybysko vs Koloff/Steamboat/Rhodes 2/3 Falls tag on Saturday Night.

Anyone got a link to that tag? Haven't seen it in a while..


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flux said:


> I really need to rewatch Snitsky vs. Kane because I swear last time I saw it I really enjoyed it... Unless they had another match that I could be confusing it with.


I like the match too. But their match from Taboo Tuesday is >. Perhaps it was that. Or their Falls Count Anywhere match on RAW. Was that the gimmick or was it just a street fight? Idc.



Starbuck said:


> Are you calling me a drug addict?


Almost too good of a Triple H zinger set up here...:sansa

but the Steel Cage vs Flair. Hell, we're all fans on this occasion.



The Fab Four said:


> http://whiskeyandwrestling.blogspot.co.uk/
> 
> Anyone know that 'Andy'? Been enjoying reading his blog.


We all love Andy. But he loves hating things I like. So actually that makes me enjoy his rambling more.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Just got around to watching the first bit of raw, first time watching in like a month and I'm impressed with how much Rollins has improved on his mic skills. Just based off of the opening segment there I could see his improvement.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rollins has always been dope on the mic. He just gets unfairly placed into that pile of wrestlers that are incredible in ring talents but can't speak. Sorta like what people do with Ziggler.

I'll actually take a different approach and sing the praises for my choice for best elimination chamber match: the Smackdown 2011 bout. It didn't have the emotional ending of the 2002 match or the bladejobs of 2005, but I still thought that it was the most dramatic and physical of all chamber matches. All six guys had good-great-MysteriGOAT performances. Loved how Edge and Rey started and finished the match against each other, which felt a lot like a continuation of their 2009 chamber encounter. And the sheer nastiness of some of the strikes from everyone, especially Kane and Barrett. Ouch. And how about Big Show playing the hard-to-tumble giant? Mysterio had to fly off a pod to even get a near fall! Or Edge somehow hitting not one, but MULTIPLE spears that actually looked painful. And best of all, how about DREW FUCKING MCINTYRE going batshit insane! Those three minutes or so where he kills everyone might be my favorite three minutes of any chamber match. Put him over like crazy and made me a fan. The final two in Edge and Rey battling it out was practically a four star match on its own. And while there were no bladejobs in the match, the chamber, the pods, and every other piece of material you can think of was used in some way to inflict significant damage. Yeah, it narrowly edges out SvS 2002 and NYR 05 for me.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

NYR 05 Elimination Chamber or MITB 1?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

05 Chamber >>> for me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The go-home RAW for the PPV on Sunday :hayden3

nothing like a smackdown main event repeat to allure the fans.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are you guys aware that there was a THIRD Austin/Benoit match in 2001? And it's great. On that same episode, The Rock tells Kevin Kelly to pick his nose and Big Show dunks people through basketball hoops.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I was not aware of that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Speaking of Elimination Chamber, I'm rewatching Shield/Wyatt's and it's just rocking my world. Best American trios match since the 1992 WCW Eaton/Anderson/Zybysko vs Koloff/Steamboat/Rhodes 2/3 Falls tag on Saturday Night.
> 
> Anyone got a link to that tag? Haven't seen it in a while..






funnyfaces1 said:


> Are you guys aware that there was a THIRD Austin/Benoit match in 2001? And it's great. On that same episode, The Rock tells Kevin Kelly to pick his nose and Big Show dunks people through basketball hoops.


Smackdown 02.15.2001

Is that it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well Barrett fans, I'm afraid I'VE GOT SOME BAD NEWS... he most likely won't be in the MITB match after suffering a shoulder injury during the SD taping this week 8*D.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

:maddox gonna :maddox







This darkness is what I imagine Vince sees every day, considering his head is so far up his own arse at this point. Product is atrocious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Looking at what to ramble on next, and might do NWO 05. Looking at the card, is this the only PPV of the year that doesn't have that ONE major stand out match? All looks mediocre and shitty to me lol, unless the JBL/Show cage match is actually great .

Huh, still got the wrapping on this DVD. Must be good if I've not even attempted to watch it since I got it .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The FINLAY match you've never seen, and it's against surly luchador Villano V, fuckers:






Spoiler alert: it's fantastic.

Spoiler alert 2: Finlay plays a tremendous face-in-peril.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JBL/Show IS definitely great, no question. Love that match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Had that Finlay match downloaded for about a week now. No idea who his opponent is or what the match is or anything but I think it was YEAH that posted it and was excited the match was finally online so I grabbed it and didn't watch it because I'm a cunt and now instead of watching a FINLAY match I'm gonna sit through 3 hours of mostly trash called No Way Out 2005 8*D.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

His opponent is Villano the Fifth, from the old family of Villano fat fucks who liked bloody brawls where they punch people in mouth while trying to rip out their eyes.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yep, Ray Mendoza Jr is Villano V. Been wanting to see the match since it happened, only got released on DVD recently. I haven't been on a wrestling kick in a while so I'll probably first watch it next decade. I have the pro-shot, though. If there's a handheld then why the fuck wasn't it put up a year and a half ago!?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Smackdown 02.15.2001
> 
> Is that it?



Thanks man


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone got a 'Top Ten' for Pillman?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Let me try,

1. Pillman vs Liger SuperBrawl II ****3/4
2. Pillman/Windham vs Steamboat/Douglas Starrcade 1992 ****1/2
3. Hollywood Blondes vs Flair/Arn 2/3 Falls COTC 1993 ****1/4
4. Pillman vs Johnny B. Badd Fall Brawl 1995 ****
5. Pillman vs Flair WCW Main Event Feb. 1990 ****
6. Pillman vs Scotty Flamingo Beach Blast 1992 ***3/4
7. Pillman vs Tom Zenk WrestleWar 1992 ***3/4
8. Pillman vs Steamboat Halloween Havoc 1992 ***3/4
9. Pillman/Zenk vs Midnight Express Capitol Combat 1990 ***3/4
10. Pillman/Liger vs Benoit/Wellington COTC 1993 ***3/4

Then, of course, there is the FABULOUS Canadian Stampede 10 Man from 1997 that he was involved in, but I'm sure you've seen that match many times


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Get some Pillman/Rude and Pillman/Windham in your life.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I tried to do ten but more than ten is better ;

v. Luger (Havoc 89, 11/15/89)
v. Flair (2/17/90, 4/13/91)
v. Windham (3/23/91, 4/6/91, 4/27/91, SuperBrawl 91)
v. Zenk (WrestleWar 92)
v. Scotty Flamingo (Beach Blast 92)
v. Liger (12/27/91, SuperBrawl 92)
Blondes v. Steamboat/Douglas (10/25/92, 1/13/93, 1/30/93, 3/6/93, 3/27/93)
v. Steamboat (Havoc 92, 2/20/93)
w/Liger v. Steamboat/Koloff (GAB 92)
Blondes v. Scorpio/Bagwell (3/6/93, 5/8/93)
Blondes/Windham v. Flair/Anderson/Roma (7/3/93)
v. Rude (2/15/92)
w/Windham v. Steamboat/Douglas (Starrcade 92, 1/2/93)
Blondes v. Flair/Anderson (6/16/93)
v. Johnny B. Badd (Fall Brawl 95)
Blondes/Heavenly Bodies v. RNRs/Steamboat/Douglas 2/27/93
v. Douglas (10/17/91)
v. Wright (GAB 95)
v. Badstreet (9/5/91)
v. Morton (3/14/92)
w/Zenk v. MX (Capital Combat 90)
Blondes v. Anderson/Roma (Beach Blast 93)

Usually when I list matches I try to put them in chronological order but I couldn't be arsed. It's 12:30 AM 'n' shit. Still a bunch of matches there, and I left some other Pillman stuff out. Dammit, that man was good at the pro graps.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

War Games 91 if not just for that spectacular finish.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Let me try,
> 
> 1. Pillman vs Liger SuperBrawl II ****3/4
> 2. Pillman/Windham vs Steamboat/Douglas Starrcade 1992 ****1/2
> ...





funnyfaces1 said:


> Get some Pillman/Rude and Pillman/Windham in your life.





Yeah1993 said:


> I tried to do ten but more than ten is better ;
> 
> v. Luger (Havoc 89, 11/15/89)
> v. Flair (2/17/90, 4/13/91)
> ...


Thanks very much. Been watching some Hollywood Blondes stuff recently, that Scorpio/Bagwell tag is glorious.

I still need to see that vs Liger (12/27/91), i know its a handheld but i have heard its really good.


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The go-home RAW for the PPV on Sunday :hayden3
> 
> nothing like a smackdown main event repeat to allure the fans.


Last Monday's Raw was the go home show? There's a PPV this Sunday?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Volk Han Submission Demonstration (02.28.1993)*

x209227

Dressed in his army fatigues - Han was a legit self-defense instructor in the Soviet army,
Han demonstrates a number of submissions here. Very cool.

Something different for peeps to watch.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Looking at what to ramble on next, and might do NWO 05. Looking at the card, is this the only PPV of the year that doesn't have that ONE major stand out match? All looks mediocre and shitty to me lol, unless the JBL/Show cage match is actually great .
> 
> Huh, still got the wrapping on this DVD. Must be good if I've not even attempted to watch it since I got it .


oh lord. just skip to the main event. make this Armageddon '04 revisited. You must. Only, this actually has a main event you want to see; JBL vs Show. But still. The rest. It was so bad I could not do it in one sitting. Undertaker. Poor, poor Undertaker and what he was given on that night. Why negative star ratings were invented. And that opener. ffs. :|



Chismo said:


> The FINLAY match you've never seen, and it's against surly luchador Villano V, fuckers:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well how do you do.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I watched a few ladder matches today (Steen/Generico PWG, Bucks/SSB/Shock PWG, Flair/Edge) and thought about ranking all kinds of ladder matches but truth is there aren't that many great ones. Ladder War 1 in ROH, TLC 2 and 3 along with HBK/Razor from WM X would round out what I'd consider truly great ladder matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Exact opposite with me. Ladder/TLC matches are my favorite matches, and I like/love most of them.

Even the main event of NWO 05 wasn't that good tbh. Ending ruled, but most of it was pretty boring. Please make it Armageddon 2004 revisited as suggested.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> I watched a few ladder matches today (Steen/Generico PWG, Bucks/SSB/Shock PWG, Flair/Edge) and thought about ranking all kinds of ladder matches but truth is there aren't that many great ones. Ladder War 1 in ROH, TLC 2 and 3 along with HBK/Razor from WM X would round out what I'd consider truly great ladder matches.


Benoit/Jericho RR 01
Sheamus/John Morrison TLC 10'
Eddie/RVD Raw 2002
MitB 2005
TLC 3
Hell No/Ryback vs The Shield TLC 12'
HBK vs Razor SS 95'

Are all truly great Ladder matches.

And I'll say again, JBL/Show from NWO 2005 is excellent and anything but boring. Two massive men beating on each other, bleeding all over the place, and throwing bombs is my idea of a swell time.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just watched Kane/finlay from SS 07 and that match is AWESOME. Everyone check it out. 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Seems I left out quite a few. I left out MitB matches on purpose but that's probably retarded. Definitely forgot about Benoit/Jericho and the match where Nitro gets his face fucked up.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Never seen Finlay vs Kane from Summerslam 2007 but I did enjoy their Smackdown 9/14/07 bout with Finaly going to work on Kane's left arm. Kane throwing the shillelagh at Finlay's left arm with Cole replying with "Now he knows how it feels!" is :lmao. 

Gonna check out their Summerslam match when I get the chance.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

I agree Kane/Finlay SS is awesome


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

If someone could throw me a link to the TV match that'd be :mark:


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)




----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Thank you :mark: 

Still watching SS 2007, pretty shitty show tbh


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just rewatched WM XXX for the 2nd time

Opening Segment: *****************
Bryan/HHH: ****1/2 MOTY 
Shield/NAO&Kane: **
Andre battle royal: ***1/2
Wyatt/Cena: ***1/2
Lesnar/Taker: **3/4
Bryan/Orton/Tista: ***3/4

Re watched it again for a 2nd time because I was there live. Still an amazing time and BEST event I've ever attended. 

YES, I have HHH/Bryan as MOTY just passing Wyatts/Shield


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Orton/Cena from that show (Summerslam 2007) is pretty good. I share your sentiments smiity, it is a shit show overall.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The opener is good, I find Rey/Chavo to be WAY overrated. HHH/Booker and Batista/Khali are mediocre, and the ME is decent but comes no where near NWO 08 in terms of Cena/Orton matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A shame too, because since 1997, Summerslam has been a good-great-GOAT PPV except for two specific years: 2006 and 2007. At least 2006 did give us two solid matches in Flair/Foley and Edge/Cena, but 2007. Yuck. Cena/Orton from what I remember was good, but I've read from others that the second half of the match was bad. Maybe it's worth a rewatch. But not over Big Show wrestling in hardcore matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I just watched Kane/finlay from SS 07 and that match is AWESOME. Everyone check it out.
> 
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


(Y)

and then their Belfast Brawl on Smackdown is even better. :sodone


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Yeah I'm really gonna have to get to that match tomorrow then, Belfast Brawl means no DQ which means :mark:

Booker T vs HHH just started...blech


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Not a fan of 10 minute HHH entrances, eh?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Even worse when the match only goes seven.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Booker is the ultimate meaning of buryjob. Almost literally.

But worry not - Khali/Batista is EVEN WORSE somehow.

FUCK SS 2007. FUCK IT REALLY HARD.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oh I cannot wait to get to SS 07 8*D.

NWO 05 today though. Maybe.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, it IS better than NWO 05 (good luck w/that, Cal). You have that going for it... I think. At least it does have one good match and one great one (Kane/Finlay and Cena/Orton). 

NWO 05... it's JBL/Show and JOY GIOVANNI (FAPTASTIC) - seriously, do NOT skip the Divas in-ring segments, unless you want to skip Joy showing off her ass a lot, including while massaging Torrie Wilson on the mat - as the good stuff and the rest is crapamania. Angle/Cena is shit, Booker/Heindenreich is total shit, the Cruiserweight Title match isn't shit but it's close, Tag Title match is underwhelming... yeah.  *Oh, and Taker/Luther. That's the shittiest of them all.*

And yet still NWO is better than TGAB from the same year. Somehow. GAB has one better match than the entirety of NWO, but said entirety is not as Godawful overall.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SS 07 only has one match; Kane Vs Finlay. Cena/Orton sucks balls like all their matches except NWO 08.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I really don't think so. It was very Orton-centered, sure, and it did feel a little boring on rewatch but I would say he did a good job taking his time beating up Cena. And Cena was his 2007-self, he had a few nice rally-ups. It was a very basic match they did, but I thought it was still very good myself. Sucks that the finish... well, sucked, though.

Oh, and the Breaking Point I Quit match I don't remember sucking at all either, but that's just me


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Angle/Cena/Show is a nice little match that doesn't get its due. Scratch that, very nice- Cena sold the leg injury he sustained at the Rumble (at the hands of Show) really well, much better than I expected as he was still very green at the time, Angle is his usual spastic self (does this guy take an adrenaline hit before every match, holy fuck) his punches are like wicked fast, can't even see the motion. Digressing away from the weird stuff, he portrayed the pissed off role to satisfaction (the story was he got jumped by either Show or Cena in the weeks prior), it seemed like he wanted go all SPOTZ heavy but The Giant tamed and slowed him.......thankfully. As for Show himself, he was more aimed on humiliating and dissecting his opponents than actually winning the match, similar to the match with Cena at WMXX. 

The Causing of Pain and Suffering = Food for Paul Wight :show (where's his smiley? )

and ***3/4 for the match, like I said very nice.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'm pretty sure that (and Rey/Chavo) don't get their cue because that show is all about BROCK/EDDIE. Talk about the total realization of a dream match that was.

Anyway, later today, my list's goin' PART 8 BIATCHES.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*** for both Rey/That other dude and the Cena/Show/Angle matches at NWO 04. Nothing special about either but both good and solid.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> SS 07 only has one match; Kane Vs Finlay. Cena/Orton sucks balls like all their matches except NWO 08.


No love for their IronMan Match ?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Oddly enough no .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I suppose you're in NWO 05 already... have you reached Taker/Luther? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm on the opener .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Eddie & Rey/Bashams? Average stuff that is. You may like it but I didn't thought of it too much. Eddie pretty much made that match.

I'm telling you - Joy Giovanni and JBL/Show are the only really good things about this show. Rest is stuff you could live without. Especially crap like Taker/Luther (poor Taker) and Booker/Heindenreich.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Booker/Heindenreich screams NO for definite. My uber man love for Undertaker forces me to watch every match he's involved in though .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, prepare to DUD Taker/Luther then. Taker deserved better. And God bless that Eddie Guerrero for ever having a not bad match with that useless Luther Reigns. His death is even sadder when I think about that


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mark Jindrak is the only other guy to have a good match with Luther Reigns.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Up to Luther/Taker. Aaaaaaand taking a break . MASTERCHEF AUSTRALIA~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If it's Season 4 of MC Australia then it's an excusable break 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Mark Jindrak is the only other guy to have a good match with Luther Reigns.


Really? Jindrak/Luther doesn't sound exactly good tbh.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

S6, the current one.

I watched that Finlay/Mendoza match yesterday (or the day before... I don't remember days and shit). Was great. Duh. Finlay rules.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Didn't even know MC was actually going now 

Well, PART 8 time for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Getting caught up on a bunch of TV stuff from this year:

The Rhodes Dynasty vs. The Real Americans (_Main Event 3/17_) - *** 1/2
Pretty good formula tag match. Shame none of their matches ever had any real meaning.

*Triple Threat Intercontinental Title #1 Contender's Match*
Sheamus vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio (_Main Event 3/24_) - *** 3/4
Ridiculously fun 3-way that got a lot of time and had some excellent nearfalls with a creative finish. Have a watch.

The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family (_Main Event 4/8_) - *** 3/4
The first several minutes were rather pedestrian but damn that long FIP segment with Ambrose was wonderful and the final few minutes were balls to the wall action. Great match. What's the date on their first RAW match? The original rematch after Elimination Chamber.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING
*​


Spoiler: List before Part 8



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005


*PART 8
(160-141)

#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996









#159: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001









#158: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008









(****)
#157: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven









#156: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005









#155: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007









#154: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008









#153: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010









#152: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009









#151: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009









#150: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011









#149: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000









#148: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004









#147: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010









#146: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997









#145: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident









#144: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013









#143: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011









#142: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog









#141: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive








*​


Spoiler: Updated list



(*)
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
(*3/4)
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
(**)
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
(**1/4)
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
(**1/2)
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
(**3/4)
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
(***)
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
(***1/4)
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
(***1/2)
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
(***3/4)
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#158: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#157: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#156: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#155: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#154: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#153: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#152: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#151: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#150: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#149: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#148: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#147: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#146: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#145: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#144: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#143: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#142: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#141: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone know if the HOF is edited on the Wrestlemania 30 DVD/BD?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ADR/Christian ER 11' over Austin/Angle Unforgiven???? You've lost your mind dude. Lost it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh no I haven't. I guarantee you I haven't. I may be alone in thinking it but fuck it. ADR/Christian was one massive tension-fest for me, despite the spotish stuff, and Christian's victory left me beyond happy - I try to block out what happened with Orton a few days later 

Then again, Austin/Angle was based of a rating I gave to quite a while ago, so maybe it would've gone up if I had rewatched it sooner. Still, my conscience is CLEAR. 

EDIT: Fuck it, you know what, I'll rewatch it and see if the ***3/4 rating I gave it is low or not.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I almost spat my drink at my laptop when I saw "Steve Austin vs. Dude Love" because I immediately thought he only rated their OTE match ****, then I decided to pay attention and became thankful I didn't waste my drink.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Reigns/Jindrak match was good mainly because it was only three minutes long and Mark Jindrak threw one of the best punches I've ever seen. I think that punch knocked Luther out of the WWE.

ADR/Christian over Austin/Angle? I like the way you think.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> I almost spat my drink at my laptop when I saw "Steve Austin vs. Dude Love" because I immediately thought he only rated their OTE match ****, then I decided to pay attention and became thankful I didn't waste my drink.


I had that EXACT reaction. First I saw how low he had Austin/Angle Unforgiven, so I was already like "bitch be trippin'". Then I saw THAT and was about to say "Oh, HELLL NO". I thought you had it in for Austin or something 

Austin/Love OTE 98' is a borderline 5-star match for me, I gave it ****3/4 on last watch. It's an Attitude Era brawl done right, with Attitude Era overbooking done RIGHT. Vince, Patterson, and Brisco were sheer gold for the entire thing. Especially Brisco, when he valiantly rises to his feet after Austin stomped a mud hole in his ass.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, fuck regarding Austin/Angle UF. I rewatched it because DAT CONTROVERSY made my mind think I should rejudge. And yeah, I watched that quite a long time ago admitedly, and that was definitely much better than I remembered it. I remember the reason why it felt short of the **** for me was that the whole thing was wrestled almost like a No DQ match (they spent 10 minutes straight on the outside after the bell rung, stuff like low blows was only "warned" and not given a straight DQ) when it was just a Singles match, and the Piledriver near-fall should've been the end for someone with a fucked up neck like Kurt. But for what it was, it was AWESOME. Austin was brilliant as the coward but always with a trick up his sleeve heel, always trying the easy way out, and Angle was brilliant as the fighting babyface who was just beating the holy crap out of Austin. I liked how Angle only used the suplexes when it felt senseful to use them, and how he actually bothered to sell his neck for the majority of the time, and how his offence was 94.5% punches and chops which looked pretty good. And the story told was great as obvious. Yeah, ***3/4 is a little too low, I'd go with ****1/4 on this if you ask me. It's no SummerSlam (well of course), but it's still fucking amazing. Now I truly regret putting it as low as I did on the list


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finally made it to the barbed wire steel cage match. Please let this deliver.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Way Out 2005*

Don't think I've seen anything from this event since, uhhh... 2005. 9 years ago. The DVD was still in its wrapper too .

Jericho's band Fozzy does the PPV theme for this event with ENEMY, the one and only song I like from the group .


*Rey Mysterio & Eddie Guerrero Vs The Basham Brothers - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Wonder what Eddie & Rey can do with the Bashams. Hopefully something good.

My god could the Bashams BE any more boring on offence> [/Chandler]

I swear at one point one of the Basham's elbows Eddie and Eddie charges into the ring and seems legit angry that this match is sucking that the poor referee seems to be "work" trying to hold him back but Eddie is "shoot" trying to get involved :lmao.

Eddie tries to cheat by extending the tag rope but gets caught. That's the highlight of this match so far and we're like 10 minutes in.

Rey does some stupid shit to move out of the Basham's way to get a tag to Eddie... except he HAS a chance to tag out and instead runs the ropes and does a couple more flippy things and THEN tags in. Urgh.

Hot tag and Eddie is immediately stopped. Yey. Just what this match needed.

Eddie goes for a tag belt to try and cheat, but Rey catches him and puts a stop to it. Meanwhile the Basham's do a switch and Eddie goes for a Frog Splash... but knows they switched, and rolls through, but pretends he crashed and burned and suckered the Basham into a quick roll up!!!

Only a 2 count though, and then some SHENANIGANS with the tag belt and Eddie wins the tag belts for him and Rey! Mysterio is a hypocrite. Stopped Eddie from cheating with the tag belt... then 30 seconds later throws the other tag belt to Eddie to cheat to win.

Last 2 minutes with Eddie being Eddie were the only good things about this awful, awful match.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Rookie Diva of the Year Contest thingy happens. Basically a bunch of FAP FAP divas being all FAP FAP.

:lmao at Joy's credentials. All the others have things like "model" or "playboy model" or "personal trainer"... and she has:










:lmao Big Show's "special friend" :lmao.


*Booker T Vs Heidenreich*

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Paul London Vs Funaki Vs Shannon Moore Vs Akio Vs Spike Dudley Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Elimination Match*

:lmao FUNAKI is the champion? SMAKDUN NOMBAH WAN ANNUNCAR is also SMAKDUN NOMBAH WAN CROOZAHWAIT!

So 2 guys start in the ring (Funaki and London), while the other 4 men stand in seperate corners... but there is NO tagging. Instead they all picked numbers out at random and when someone gets eliminated, #3 comes in and they carry on from there.

FUNAKI IS ELIMINATED FIRST :lmao. Spike caused a distraction and London rolled him up. So Funaki superkicks Spike and London pins him too.

THE PRINCE OF PUNK looks like a giant moron.

450 splash and London wins again.

AKIO~! I miss Tajiri .

I prefer JIMMY WANG YANG.

TOP ROPE NECKBREAKER~!

Chavo wants the referee to count quicker so both men are counted out and he wins without wrestling. I'm all for that tbh.

Wait... Akio is eliminated because he didn't make it up? But London did so the count should have stopped. This isn't a last man standing match you dumb fuck. WHAT THE HELL?!?!

"Smart by Chavo to go after the neck. BETTER SMART by London to counter" :lmao well done Tazz.

Chavo uses the ropes and wins.

Wow. A 6 man CW match and it was DULL AS SHIT. I'd have preferred a fucking spotfest than this. Jebus.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


More FAP FAP FAP rookie diva stuff. FAP.

Pretty epic JBL promo.


*The Undertaker Vs Luther Reigns*

Poor Undertaker. THE FUCK did he do to deserve this? Luther nearly FALLS OVER climbing the ropes to pose ffs.

Mark Jindrak gets sent to the back because he won't leave the ring.

:lmao at the replay from SD a few days earlier. Undertaker sets up Jindrak for a Tombstone, while Luther grabs a camera from the camera man. THEN HE WAITS FOR UNDERTAKER TO TOMBSTONE HIS TAG PARTNER, LETS HIM GET PINNED, AND ONLY THEN DECIDES TO HIT UNDERTAKER IN THE HEAD :lmao.

PUNCHES TO THE FACE~!

OLD SCHOOL~!

:lmao the old "referee is scared shitless of The Undertaker" spot. I <3 that spot. And here is serves a purpose as Reigns uses it to take off a turnbuckle pad!

Undertaker might not be 100% after getting nailed in the head with a camera on SD, so Reigns does his best to keep attacking the head. The turnbuckle pad was part of that plan... but it backfires and Reigns goes back first into it instead. LOL.

:lmao Reigns runs away from Undertaker, who chases him into the corner and grabs hold of him, while the referee tries to break it up and Undertaker grabs him by the scruff of his neck and picks him up :lmao. 

LOW BLOW~! 

REIGNS GRABS UNDERTAKER AND SMASHES THE BACK OF HIS HEAD INTO THAT EXPOSED TURNBUCKLE~!

So Reigns is still targeting the injured head and then... applies a LEG SUBMISSION. I thought Undertaker was the one with a potential concussion? Luther obviously ain't 100% in the head either for this match...

UNDERTAKER COMEBACK~! WORST VERSION OF SNAKE EYES EVER~! UNDERTAKER HAS THE CHANCE TO DO IT ON THE EXPOSED TURNBUCKLE BUT OPS FOR THE ROPES INSTEAD BECAUSE... STUFF~!

Tombstone attempt is countered with a reverse DDT! At least Reigns is mostly keeping with the story of the match... just that damn leg submission that make me wanna shoot him lol.

TOMBSTONE~! Undertaker wins. Duh.

I've heard terrible, terrible things about this match. From stupid people, obviously. Because this ain't bad. Nothing that good either, but a solid match for the most part. Undertaker is awesome as always, and Luther, aside from being a retard and going for that leg submission, was fine on offence when he started targeting the head.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


And the final FAP FAP DIVA FAP stuff. Swimsuit competition. Yey! FAP!


*John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - #1 Contender's Match for WWE Title at WrestleMania 21*

Tazz butchers the "what brought you to the dance" phrase... which is like the 10th time tonight he's butchered an old phrase/saying lol. Always great when a commentator can't speak properly.

Angle tries to pace the match his way early on, taking Cena to the mat, applying headlocks and taking things slow. Then Cena throws some fists and suddenly the match becomes a brawl and seems to have a ton of HATE~! which seems a little out of place because this isn't a big feud ending match or anything, it's the finals of a tournament .

:lmao Cena takes Angle over the announce table and starts punching him... but the camera pans round so we can SEE the punches... and Cena is just kinda slapping Angle's arm :lmao. The camera angle quickly changes .

GERMAN SUPLEX INTO THE CORNER~!

KURT ANGLE LIKES TO BE IN A POSITION WHERE HE CAN DOMINATE~!

REST HOLDS~!

TRIPLE GERMANS~!

Angle has worn down Cena and then... ONE SHOULDER TACKLE LATER and Angle is just as fucked up as Cena apparently.

F-U~! Angle kicks out at 2 and Cena is apparently retarded enough to not realise this and thinks he won. THAT ONLY WORKS WITH THE FOOT ON THE ROPES THING YOU HALF WIT.

Angle decides maybe he should work over the leg and ankle of Cena before going for another Ankle Lock. Some of the stomps look pretty brutal.

ANGLE SLAM~! Because... that'll help with the Ankle Lock obviously!!!

ANKLE LOCK~! 

REF BUMP~!

NO SELL OF THE ANKLE AS CENA HITS AN F-U~!

Cena wins and then sells the ankle.

Meh. I've seen worse from both men, in matches against each other and against other people. That's like, the biggest compliment I'm giving this.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*JBL Vs The Big Show - WWE Championship Barbed Wire Steel Cage Match*

:lmao most of the build for this match is Batista Vs JBL... which doesn't even happen until like 4 months later .

Never understood the need for a Barbed Wire Steel Cage match. Ok, so the barbed wire is to prevent you from climbing out unless you are stupid. So uhhh... why not either a) only allow someone to win by pin or submission or b) have a Hell in a Cell match? Just stick a roof on the damn thing and you're sorted. Hell, they even chain up the door so you can't escape that way. STUPID.

JBL looks awesome throwing those huge punches of his to someone taller than him.

:mark: JBL constantly blocking his face being thrown into the side of the cage and looking terrified each time Show tries to do it. BUILDING TO THOSE CAGE SPOTS~!

KNEE CLIP~!

NECKBREAKER~!

JBL instinctively runs up the side of the cage to try and escape... but is met with BARBED WIRE and ends up getting slicing his arm a little, and is then caught by the Giant.

KNOCKOUT PUNCH FROM BIG SHOW~! But he hasn't done his boxing training yet so it's not a finisher 8*D.

JBL is fighting for survival here, and manages to send Big Show head first into the side of the cage, giving us our first cage spot! BIG SHOW IS BLEEDING~!

JBL again tries to climb out, seemingly determined to find an opening somewhere in the barbed wire. But he notices Show is bleeding, and changes his gameplan from "escape" to "destroy the now weakened giant".

Ally Oop into the side of the cage followed up with a powerbomb!!! JBL is now bleeding!!!

OJ and the Basham's try to interfere, but Teddy Long comes out and sends them away, not before OJ slips some bolt cutters through the cage though!

BOLT CUTTERS TO THE HEAD~! CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~! BIG SHOW KICKED OUT!!!

Nothing seems to be able to stop the Big Show though! CHOKESLAM~!

JBL KICKS OUT~!

LOW BLOW~! BOOT TO THE FACE~!

JBL remembers the bolt cutters, and since his clothesline didn't end the match, he decides to try and cut the barbed wire so he can escape!!!

BATTLE ON THE TOP ROPE~!

CHOKESLAM~!

JBL WENT RIGHT THROUGH THE RING!!! BIG SHOW JUST CHOKESLAMMED THE WWE CHAMPION STRAIGHT TO HELL!!!

Big Show breaks the chain from the door! He opens it, and walks out, right to the main event of WM and the WWE Championship!!!

THE WINNER OF THIS MATCH... AND STILL WWE CHAMPION... JBL!!!

JBL escaped the cage by going UNDER the ring thanks to the broken ring!!!

Oh man, what a fucking finish :mark:. Extremely creative, and a great way for JBL to once again sneak away with the title.

Good match! Nothing out of this world, but a good bloody cage match with a super ending. I enjoyed it!

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3*​


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF: that's better homie. That's the same rating I have for it. It's a poor mans Summerslam 2001, essentially. Worked in much the same manner just without the incredible highs, non-stop action (the middle portion drags a tad), and goosebumps inducing moments. Great, great match.

Cal: I gave Show/JBL ***3/4, so we weren't that far off. I can't believe you found it in you to give Taker/Luther a full **, but hey, Taker is Taker and I respect your loyalty. Outside of Summerslam 2004 and some stuff from his initial 2000-2001 run, I refuse to give any Eddie match less than ** just on general principle, so I know where you are coming from.

Great review, shitty show. The good news? You got the two of the three worst PPV's of 2005 out of the way already! Go refresh your pallet with something like Unforgiven and then head into Great American Bash.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Already started Unforgiven lol :lmao. CAGE~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

Ladies and gentlemen, there was some massive controversy regarding my low ranking of the match between Steve Austin and Kurt Angle at Unforgiven 2001, and it prompted me to rewatch the match. However, a few hours later, the reason behind the backlash against me is now apparent - the match was way too Goddamn better than I originally made it out to be. Therefore, I ask to you to ignore that said match ever appeared as low as it did on the list, since it is now much higher up on the list (Yes, I'm sort of playing the Benoit card :side. But it's the fucking last time I'll do something like that so CHILL OUT YA HEAR ME?! Due to that, let's the see the actual list as it stands:
*​


Spoiler: List so far



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#158: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#157: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#156: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#155: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#154: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#153: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#152: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#151: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#150: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#149: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#148: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#147: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#146: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#145: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#144: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#143: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#142: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive



*PART 9
(141-121)

#141: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004









#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014









#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006









#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005









#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010









#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker









#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996









#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011









#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero









#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998









#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18









#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008









#129: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003









#128: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004









#127: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995









#126: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005









#125: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14









#124: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6









#123: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002









#122: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks









#121: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996








*​


Spoiler: Updated list



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#158: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#157: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#156: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#155: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#154: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#153: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#152: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#151: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#150: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#149: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#148: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#147: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#146: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#145: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#144: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#143: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#142: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#141: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004
#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#129: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#128: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#127: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#126: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#125: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#124: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#123: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#122: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#121: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unforgiven was not very good either. Cage match is GOAT, but the opener was kinda boring because of Carlito, tag matches were boring, Chavo Guerrero lost his mind, and the main event was a DUD. Big Show/Snitsky though is worth looking into. Michaels/Masters too, but it goes on longer than it should.

Cal should do Survivor Series next. Kinda interested in how his opinion on the LMS match will change.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF. Brother. 2 things. 1, I know English isn't your first language so I'll give you a free tip, "Way too goddamn better" is not a sentence. It should be "Way goddamn better". There . See? Who says I'm not a nice guy.

#2. You nearly caused me to blow a gasket with how much you underrated Rey/Chavo GAB (****1/2), Mankind/Taker KOTR(****1/2), Michaels/Jarrett IYH (****1/4), Eddie/Benoit/Armageddon (****1/2), Michaels/Razor SS 95'(****1/2), Michaels/Vader SS 96'(****1/2), and Flair/Trips SVS(****1/4). Whew boy. Andrew, you got some splanin' to do (if anyone gets that reference you get a nice shiney donkey).

I appreciate the work you put into this list though, so I definitely give you props for it. I'm just curious what matches you have in that ****1/2 area because if I see some crap, we got beef, son


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Speaking of Michaels/Vader, rewatched that yesterday and that was GOAT. ****1/2 is what I would give it as well, easily the best Vader WWF match and a top 5 match for Vader overall imo.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HBK/Vader is definitely how you do a big man vs. small man right. But to me, fell VERY short of ****1/4 or even 1/2 because of shenanigans and the botch. Still, incredible stuff.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> ATF. Brother. 2 things. 1, I know English isn't your first language so I'll give you a free tip, "Way too goddamn better" is not a sentence. It should be "Way goddamn better". There . See? Who says I'm not a nice guy.
> 
> #2. You nearly caused me to blow a gasket with how much you underrated Rey/Chavo GAB (****1/2), Mankind/Taker KOTR(****1/2), Michaels/Jarrett IYH (****1/4), Eddie/Benoit/Armageddon (****1/2), Michaels/Razor SS 95'(****1/2), Michaels/Vader SS 96'(****1/2), and Flair/Trips SVS(****1/4). Whew boy. Andrew, you got some splanin' to do (if anyone gets that reference you get a nice shiney donkey).
> 
> I appreciate the work you put into this list though, so I definitely give you props for it. I'm just curious what matches you have in that ****1/2 area because if I see some crap, we got beef, son


Well thanks for the tip on first 

Second... I'd like to think you're a little less strict in rating than I am, because Rey/Chavo ****1/2 seems a bit WAY too much for me. Taker/Mankind was an awesome brawl and (MINOR SPOILER FOR PART *10*, THAT UPPER ONE WAS ACTUALLY 9) the closest match to reaching ****1/4, but ultimately, I felt that **** was pretty enough, and the exact same (except it wasn't a brawl) goes to HBK/Jarrett and Eddie/Benoit. And (MORE IMPORTANT SPOILER HERE) I actually have their Vengeance match at ****1/2 so there's that for you  HBK/Vader is explained up there, and HHH/Flair suffered from some dull parts but I still adored it. And also I didn't want to overblow the ****1/4 area with some of these picks, since HHH/Flair, HBK/Jarrett and Taker/Mankind were all there, and part of me felt they just had to go a little down on review 

I'd like to see you attempt something like this and tell me it's not hard - and I promise that my ****1/2 will be fit in my eyes :side:

And that was a reference to Cena calling out Vickie in the stupid cheating angle with Edge and Show. No donkeys, though. If you want to give me something, gimme dat CASH 8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Oh and I also watched the boiler room brawl from that show and holy fuck that was shitty :jay

watching Bret/Perfect SS 91 right now, watching all the SS shows to rank them for a blog post down the line


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Never much cared for HBK/Vader. Good, but fuck me, Vader probably has at least 20 matches better than it, likely more.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah Chris/Wolverine - the goon known as Cal doesn't even like stuff like HBK/Vader or HHH/Flair LMS, so be glad they're even up there and I gave them very favorable STARZ (**** = something amazing in my eyes) 

Btw, Cal, how much are you into Unforgiven? Or are you on your break already? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm halfway into the opener :lmao.

I was having food though. Made Korma. YUM. Now I'm gonna go watch the rest of the show and... MARIO KART 8 YEY.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*#TrollCal*

Now I feel like watching some NO MERCY 2006. Now that I think about it, NWO 06 pretty much fell 3rd to Vengeance 03 and NM 06 as my favorite Smackdown PPV ever


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

What the fuck is Korma? :kobe 

But Hardy/Edge CAGE :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh my God, Matt/Helms. So fucking underrated. Matt's punches. MATT HARDY'S PUNCHES. One of them was fucking SICK in this match.

But then again, so fucking underrated goes to almost everything in this show.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Raw vs. Smackdown Elimnation tag>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Flair/Trips for SVS 05.

But overall, I appreciate the work you put into the list and outside of that and a few things in certain spots, don't think I disagree with anything (at least nothing that really struck me).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Kormas are legit the worst curry in the world.

Also Smitty, if you think Vader/HBK is a top five Vader match, I beg you please watch more Vader. LIKE I BEG. Well, I don't, I just suggest but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Whilst we're on the topic and you called it his best WWF match, I honestly think his match vs. Bradshaw MAY trump it, but I haven't seen the HBK match in a long time so who knows. All I know is that the Bradshaw match is unbelievably great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

All of you folks are disregarding the Shamrock match for Vader's WWF singles work. Not cool.

Also, holy crap, Londrick/James & SANDOW (not Stevens) remains as crash-course fun as it used to be. Londrick ruled. And even though this match could've easily felt overbooked, it didn't, it felt perfectly booked. James reminded me a lot of a young Ric Flair, with the strut and all. Oh, and Michelle McCool's boobs. That adds points. Between Michelle's "wardrobe malfunction", Ashley on top of her, and Layla's ass, this PPV was fucking horny 

Taker/Kennedy next.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Vader/Bradshaw was Vader's last WWF PPV match. Random fact for you lol.

Yeah, Vader/Shamrock is a great, stiff match. As is their cage match in Japan.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> What the fuck is Korma? :kobe



Bollocks way the British have made their curries (basically stew, considering it ain't spicy at all) but damn if it ain't nice. Coconut milk + curry = greatness




Flux said:


> Kormas are legit the worst curry in the world.



:banplz:


You what, now? Cabbage curry easily trumps Chicken Korma any day of the week as far as rubbish curries go.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> *Overall CAL SCALE - 3*[/center]


That should be 3.5! Dat Cena vs. Angle match :mark: :bow:angel


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Official Match/DVD/Show/Curry Discussion Thread


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Korma has got nothing on chicken makhni. And chicken 65. Oh man, where is that Homer smiley?

I actually don't have any major disagreements with ATF's list. It's very well done and I would give similar or same ratings to most of the recent choices. I'm worried about the later stuff though :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> HBK/Vader is definitely how you do a big man vs. small man right. But to me, fell VERY short of ****1/4 or even 1/2 because of shenanigans and the botch. Still, incredible stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, there is no way in hell I'd have the patience to do a project like you are doing, let alone doing it all fancy like with the cool formatting. I give you all the props in the world for undertaking it. I just like to do my bitching 

HBK/Vader SS is surely not in Vaders top 5 for his career, but I'd definitely have it somewhere in the top 20. You have to remember, not only did Vader have an INCREDIBLE run in WCW, he also had unbelievably awesome runs in AJPW, NJPW, and UWFi. He's the man. He's had TONS of world class matches spanning his 12+ year career.

Also: Curry is fucking disgusting. It looks, smells, and tastes like spicy dog food. No thanks. I'll stick to my steak, eggs, burritos, cheddar brats, and biscuits like a good American does


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Uncultured, the lot of you.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Korma has got nothing on chicken makhni.


Yeah, Butter Chicken is hard to beat. I'll give you that.



____
On topic, and to continue the 'Taker praise that was going on for a few pages (dunno if I've posted this before or not)


*WWE Undisputed Championship
Ladder Match*
The Undertaker © Vs. Jeff Hardy
_WWE Raw 7/1/2002_

I wish I could vocalise the disdain I feel whenever I see Jeff Hardy's name pop up but even bad wrestlers can bring a marvelous performance, especially when that match is the match that got everyone to respect them as a single's competitor. A week before this match 'Taker easily squashed Hardy, then a hardly proven midcarder, in a non-title match-up. As Taker was about to ride out of the arena, a beaten and out-of-breath Jeff grabbed a microphone and begged for a title shot. Both King and 'Taker scoffed at Jeff's wishes, playing them off as the delusions of grandeur that a lot of people have so early in their careers. But Jeff was determined in enticing 'Taker, throwing in a ladder stipulation knowing that he was one of the best wrestlers in that domain and it would bait 'Taker into accepting the match - even if all it would be was a no-DQ opportunity to shut Jeff up permanently.

From the get-go Hardy attempted to take the advantage from the stipulation (a match type 'Taker had never been in before) and his speed, getting an early advantage against 'Taker who levelled Hardy when he stalled. It's from this point that Hardy's plans went out the window. There is room in arguing that 'Taker came across slothlike and unmotivated in his performance, but I'd like to see it differently and more relational to the story that they were trying to tell. He could have made himself a monster in this, but would that not be incongruent to the relentless determination of Hardy? 'Taker's already squashed Hardy but, as JR stated, he just wouldn't die or call it quits. Thusly, instead of seeing 'Taker as painfully slow, I preferred to think of 'Taker as a facilitator for the end of Hardy's career. He wanted to prolong Hardy's embarrassment, toying with him and letting him suffer in pain without knowing when 'Taker would stop pacing around him and land another blow. While it definitely changed the landscape of what a ladder match was at this point (straying away from continual spot-heavy sequences), it still allowed itself the indulgence of innovative offence in Hardy's comeback spots. I'm honestly not sure if I remember anyone else having ever used the ladder as a pool-diving type springboard since. Their minimal usage, too, helped add legitimacy to their impact.

The final moments climaxed in Hardy trying, in vain, to use his familiar weapons for the win, only to have the ladder be the very reason that he picked up the loss. Hardy, full circle from the previous week, stopped 'Taker as he was leaving. This time he didn't beg for a rematch, he cockily stated 'Taker never finished him off and that, while he used the ropes for leverage, he was still standing. Taken aback by Hardy, 'Taker returned to the ring in what everyone, including Hardy, expected to be a beatdown. Taker, however, chose to raise Hardy's hand as a sign of the rookie's greatest accomplishment. That, while he had failed in his endeavour to win the title, he had won the admiration and respect from the champion as well as those who lay witness to Hardy's performance.​


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I havent seen any Japan Vader matches so thats why I guess it would be in my top 5


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Do people actually think Vader isn't the best?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> Do people actually think Vader isn't the best?



You've seriously gotta stop with the hilarious Sopranos sigs. The one with Pauly's plaque for "Excellence in Recycling" is just too much. I pitty anyone who hasn't seen that show. Paulie Walnuts is one of the greatest characters of all time. And he just looks so absolutely ridiculous most of the time. Love it

And no, I'm pretty sure most of the posters in here have some modicum of common sense. And common sense will tell you, Vader is the best. He was created by God (or Allah or Vishnu or whatever) to be a wrestler. He's The Mastodon. 

I LOVE that Hardy/Taker ladder match. Some of the best story telling you will ever see in a match. Plus, Ross gives one of the 5 best calls of his career in that match "GO ON KID! CLIMB THAT LADDER! MAKE YOURSELF FAMOUS!" :mark: :mark:

Ross always adds a level of excitement to the matches he calls that no other commentator has EVER been able to approach. Solie and Russell were absolutely great, but there is no substitute for Jim Ross in my book. Watching matches from back then compared to now, that's one of the biggest things that sticks out, he made everything twice as epic just with his ability to provide verbiage to the story being told in the ring.

I think I'll watch that Hardy/Edge Unforgiven Cage match now. It's been a while and I want to see if it still holds up to the rating (****1/2) I gave it last time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Getting caught up on a bunch of TV stuff from this year:
> 
> The Rhodes Dynasty vs. The Real Americans (_Main Event 3/17_) - *** 1/2
> Pretty good formula tag match. Shame none of their matches ever had any real meaning.
> ...


C'mon, bro.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Never much cared for HBK/Vader. Good, but fuck me, Vader probably has at least 20 matches better than it, likely more.


I think Vader might have close to 50 matches as good as that match. Definitely a good friggin match, though.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkzmyx3trWY

Here's another match of Vader vs. HBK just because everybody is talking about there FOUR STAR match at SS' 1996. This a Raw match have not watched yet.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> C'mon, bro.


Is it another 3-way you don't like?  I had hella fun with it. Real Americans/Rhodes Bros tag was fine but it felt like all their other TV tag matches this year. All very enjoyable but nothing really standout.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That three-way match rules. Dolph Ziggler finally getting his long-deserved clean victory over Sheamus. Ziggler is steadily having a very good in-ring year. Still can't get over just how great that Barrett match on RAW this past episode was. Ziggler just "gets" it in the ring.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

I agree pretty damm awesome triple threat match I love that Ziggler won even the small bits of where Ziggler asks Big E how to beat them. Freaking awesome match ****1/4. Ziggler needs a push I dont care Top 5 Worker in the WWE right now for me. All hail :ziggler1


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I've said this before, Ziggler passes the first and most important test for any wrestler: he's just plain fun to watch. I really don't understand how you can objectively watch a good Ziggler match and not enjoy yourself. He's very talented. He still has some things I'd like to see him get better at, mainly at pacing and making things mean more, but overall he's very good and one of my favorite guys to watch. Dolph also passes the remote test: when I see Ziggler coming out to wrestle, I NEVER change the channel, even if it's a ridiculous hardcore match against the Miz. 

Dolph vs Bryan at Bragging Rights is one hell of a sweet match.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought I'd become a Ziggler fan after the face turn but it didn't happen. I'll probably just never like him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Only think I dont like about ziggler sometimes in recent months is he can tends to spam his fameasser and do the "back and forth" spot thing a tad much, but he is golden in everything else. I dont need to repeat my feelings on the guy, its well known 


Big fan of Hbk/Vader ss 96 ( Like that raw match as well, seen it a few yrs back) but I HATE the ending shenanigans, like its one of the few finishing stretches that actually annoy me,


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^agree with Skins on the ending, like that was completely unnecessary for the most part 

And I think Vader should have gotten the strap then, though we woudnt get that GOAT Michaels vs Foley match


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I don't mind the ending shens because they did it for a reason-to protect Vader. Now, the fact that they never followed up on it and essentially wasted the best monster in the biz, well that's Unforgivable. But I can see why they did it. This was back in the mid 90s, Vader was 400lbs and HBK was 225 soaking wet. They had to do SOMETHING other than just have Vader lose clean, and they didn't do DQ's in the main event of the second biggest PPV back then. So the finish was a compromise, of sorts. I dunno, I guess I can see why it bothers most people it just doesn't happen to bother me cause the rest of the match was so amazing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vader's booking in 1996 was pretty strange after going through the year. He was built up to be a monster, but oftentimes he would "give" too much to his opponent in times where he probably should have just crushed someone. I think I'm fine with how Michaels' title reign turned out (actually more than fine), but Vader never reached those heights again for some odd reason. I mean his loss to Michaels wasn't even clean. AND Vader pinned Michaels cleanly on RAW later on that year. The biggest disappointment though was that we didn't get an extended Vader/Bret match. Imagine if they gave us that at IYH: Badd Blood as originally planned.

I don't mind Ziggler spamming the fameasser because he hits it in a surprising fashion and it gets the desired reaction. But the nearfall fest does get obnoxious at times, with the biggest example being the match with Fandango at the TLC pre-show. But cjack hit it right on the head; Ziggler passes the first test of a wrestler. There's just this level of flash and excitement in Ziggler that makes me enjoy anything he does. Ziggler is more than just a bunch of moves. He pulls off small things that are callbacks to prior matches with similar wrestlers. He also managed to get a great match with The Miz.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Just watched both Shawn vs Taker casket and Mankind vs Taker buried alive, both very fun contests, may just prefer the Mankind match by a smidgen due to it being very different to the other matches, not many rehashed spots.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Now I hate Dusty Rhodes with a passion the best thing he's ever done is making his two sons but I looking for any good Dusty Rhodes matches also if you can put links to the matches your talking about now let's get :talk


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Is it another 3-way you don't like?  I had hella fun with it. Real Americans/Rhodes Bros tag was fine but it felt like all their other TV tag matches this year. All very enjoyable but nothing really standout.


Best tag of the year; if not sharing the spot w/Sheamus & Christian vs Real Americans.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A Vader/HBK house show match is in my sig too for anyone interested. 

Here it is:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Best tag of the year; if not sharing the spot w/Sheamus & Christian vs Real Americans.


Actually the best tag of the year is SHIELD/WYATTS I and it's not even close :gun:

However, if you meant 2-on-2 only (classic tag), I agree that those two are up there. But I'd make a case for Shield/Real Americans too.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Actually the best tag of the year is SHIELD/WYATTS I and it's not even close :gun:
> 
> However, if you meant 2-on-2 only (classic tag), I agree that those two are up there. But I'd make a case for Shield/Real Americans too.


Dont speak too soon my friend. Wyatts/Usos this Sunday. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

^8*D

Obviously I meant Australian rules. Trios is a different ballpark.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, they already had a 17 minute tag on Raw, which was good, but wouldn't put it close to GINGERS/Americans... or Rhodes/Americans... or Shield/Americans. Notice a pattern there?

Shame that one of the Americans (Swagger) is revealing himself as sort-of a hazard. Poor Barrett


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Leon Knuckles said:


> Dont speak too soon my friend. Wyatts/Usos this Sunday. :mark:


:lmao I honestly don't think that has a chance of being anywhere near the top 10 tag matches of the year .

I shall try and get UF 05 done today. Maybe. Too many distractions in my life. Like, sometimes I see something shiny out of the corner of my eye. Shit like that. Hard to concentrate. But I really wanna make it up to Edge/Hardy cage. Damn, 05 had TWO epic cage matches AND 2 epic HIAC matches in one year on PPV. We haven't had an epic cage or HIAC in YEARS, never mind two of each match type in the same damn year.


----------



## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

I just re-watched ECW Barely Legal 1997, the very first ECW PPV. 

I first watched that show in 1999 when I was trying to find more ECW material to familiarize myself with the product, and I remembered really liking it and being impressed with the energy and passion of the original ECW. 

Watching it again (thanks to the WWE Network's PPV archive), I got a nice trip down memory lane and a reminder of what the old ECW was all about. Yes, the Network cuts out the entrance musics (which I can't stand) but other than that, it was fun to relive this PPV. 

ROH just had its first live national PPV, but it didn't quite feel like the same victory it was for ECW back in the day. Back then, it was MUCH harder to get on PPV and ECW's more extreme content made it a tougher fight. I know the Mass Transit incident caused a lot of problems among other things, and ECW had to fight, scratch, and claw for that day in the sun, and they achieved it. It really is one of the most fascinating stories behind a wrestling PPV coming to fruition, perhaps even moreso than the creation of the first Wrestlemania. I remember reading that the generators at the venue blew out five minutes after they went off the air. Five minutes earlier, and ECW would have had egg on their face and the ECW PPV audience would have missed the ending to the main event. I guess it was just meant to be that night as ECW took the brass ring and had one of the greatest night's in that company's history. 

But now, lets review the actual content on the show: 

- The opening match was The Eliminators Vs. The Dudley Boys for the ECW Tag Titles. Oh the Eliminators. John Kronos and Perry Saturn is one of the greatest tag teams that nobody remembers. They were very good though, and fun to watch. The Dudleys in ECW were also great heat magnets and could really get the crowd to despise them. The opening match was fun for the crowd reaction and for the title change, but it is shocking how one sided it was. Seriously, The Eliminators basically squashed the Dudleys. The title change got the crowd hot though. 

- Next up was Rob Van Dam Vs. Lance Storm. Apparently this match got changed several times. I think RVd was supposed to face somebody, but the match got pulled and replaced with Storm Vs. Candido, but then Candido got hurt, and they put Rob in his place. Apparently, Rob's promo after the match where he expressed distaste at being a backup rather than being booked on the show was a shoot on Heyman. 

In any case, this match was more of a spot match. It was basically Rob does a spot, then Lance does a spot, and that was the whole flow of the match. But the spots were pretty and cool, so I can't fault it for that. Lance Storm was one graceful talent in the ring. And it was also nice to watch an RVD match that wasn't the typical WWE formula that I could set a stopwatch too, and it was also nice to see RVD to work as a heel. I forgot how jerky he could be, ha ha. Anyways, solid match with solid action with RVD getting the win. This was shortly before Rob became "Mr. Monday Night". 

- Next up was a Six Man Tag Team match involving the talents of Japanese promotion "Michinoku Pro Wrestling" as The Great Sasuke, Gran Hamada, and Masato Yakushiji took on the members of the bWo Japan (lol) TAKA Michinuko, Dick Togo, & Terry Boy. Watching this match was like trying to follow the action of 5 or 6 pinball games going off at once. They flew all over the place and hit every move they possibly could. None of it made much sense, but hey, the action was fast paced and fun, right? You would normally expect a match like this to be a filler match, but in actuality, they let them be a sizeable part of the show, which was nice.I was surprised at how much time this match got too because going at that pace had to tough. Sasuke's team got the win.

- ECW TV Title was the next match as Shane Douglas defended against Pitbull #2 following Douglas' attack on Gary Wolfe (Pitbull 1#) that caused a neck injury. First of all, Francine was smoking hot back then. Second, I am going to use this match to highlight a disconnect that I often have the with the smart mark type of crowd. 

This was literally the first match on the show that tried to put together a well fleshed out story with the heel getting and building heat and the babyface getting sympathy, and having a reason to destroy the heel. Douglas was a great heel back then. If you think about it, he was basically 2000 Triple H before there was 2000 Triple H, and Francine added to him tremendously. The Pitbulls were cool and easy to like, and based on the storyline, I would want Douglas to get his head ripped off. 

This was the first match on this show that tried to actually tell a basic wrestling story that makes sense and while I liked it, there was a chunk of the live crowd that was chanting "Boring" and "Take it Home" at points. So supposed die hard Wrestling fans will sit there and cheer for a bunch of flip spots that don't make a lick of sense, but two guys go out there and actually craft a pretty solid story with solid pacing, a good heel, a good face, and some of you crap on it? Well, the ECW audience is the same fanbase that loves Sandman (more on him later) and tells Randy Orton and John Cena they can't wrestle. OK then. 

Anyways, I liked this match as a showcase for Douglas. After he won, Rick Rude made his presence known and attacked Douglas, and that was actually an awesome moment. It makes me wish Rude had done more with ECW, because he would have had a nice trifecta under his belt with strong runs in WWF, WCW, and ECW. 

- One year worth of build up led to Sabu Vs. Taz, easily the most famous match from this show. They hype and build that went into this match is something I had to experience in hindsight because I wasn't watching ECW at this time. This was the major crown jewel PPV attraction that this show had going for it. Did it deliver and does it hold up? Well, I won't say it is one of my favorite matches of all time, but it is really good. Whether or not it lived up to the hype is a question better suited for someone that actually followed it as it was happening. This bout is a nice match of clashing styles with hardcore elements and both guys showcasing their abilities well. Taz was a freaking killer back then, something that people have lost sight of as the sands of time pile on. 

The post match stuff was interesting, even if it didn't make any sense. So Taz wins, shakes Sabu's hand in a sign of respect, but then Taz' manager Bill Alphonso turns heel and has Sabu and RVD beat the crud out of Taz. OK, so if Alphonso was going to turn, why did he wait until after the match to do it? And why would he turn on the winner of the match anyway? Oh well, double turns are tricky to pull off I guess. Not all of them can be as good as Austin/Bret from Mania 13. 

- Now it is main event time. The closer was a 3 Way Dance for number one contendership to the ECW Title with the winner facing the champion Raven immediately after the victory. The legendary Terry Fuck, the wild & crazy Sandman, and the leader of the bWo, Big Stevie Cool. All three men have a history with Raven in one way or another, so it was actually a nicely crafted situation. One really nice touch was having Raven's archenemy Tommy Dreamer on commentary to root on his mentor Terry Fuck after he had given up his spot to let Terry be in the match. That really paid off in the end. 

The three way dance was wild and fun. I have to say though that Sandman is a great character, and his entrance is great (though sorely lacking on the Network without Enter Sandman blazing), but good God is he a terrible worker. I mean AWFUL. You have Stevie Richards who is in great shape, a then 53 year old Terry Fuck doing moonsaults, and you got this guy looking like he just rolled out of bed and has never seen the inside of the gym. Granted, that was part of Sandman's charm as a character too, so six in one, half a dozen in the other I guess. Anyways the match was good with plenty of hard falls and great action. In the end, Terry Funk was victorious and immediately got his title match with Raven. 

Now THIS is where things got great. Raven had free range to beat and destroy the worn out Funk, and he did it while Tommy was calling the match. Again, such a nice touch. Raven even got on the mic and taunted Tommy as he beat The Funker into a bloody pulp. Now THAT is the art of wrestling in my eyes. It isn't always about crazy spots or blood and guts insanity. It is about creating drama with strong characters and personalities, and reliving this again really makes me remember what a master Raven really was. In the end, Tommy got involved, Raven got his comeuppance, and the PPV ended with Terry Fuck as champion, a moment that ranks among the best in the company's history. Beautifully booked closer and a perfect high note to close out ECW's very first PPV. 

All in all, Barely Legal is one of the most unique experiences and story's behind any Wrestling PPV ever and the on scree product is something to enjoy too. The show highlights the strengths of ECW, which are its passionate fanbase, in your face attitude, and a charm that was all its own.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Shame that one of the Americans (Swagger) is revealing himself as sort-of a hazard. Poor Barrett


Barrett's shoulder blows out on Smackdown and Swagger is a hazard now? 

umm


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There was the Dolph concussion too last year. As far as I know, Swagger was directly part of that one too.

Well he's not a "hazard", considering they were both accidents, but I wouldn't really say he has a shiny record after that.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Swagger injuring Barrett increases his stock imo 8*D.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You shut the fuck up and go back to Unforgiven - which I bet you barely touched :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NO U.

I'm up to the cage match now... well I was like 6 hours ago . But I kinda lost interest and didn't wanna watch it while not in the mood. Gonna leave it while tomorrow now methinks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, you better get on that Cage match soon. Nowadays we can't get one decent Cage match, so I can't believe 2005 gave TWO EPIC ones. Makes me love that year even more for that :mark:

I watched No Mercy '06 last night for the MILLIONTH time, God that PPV I adore so much. Matt/Helms was PUNCHES good, extremely well paced and very HATEish, and DEM PUNCHES, my God. Tag Titles match was demolition derby fun and perfectly booked. Layla was AND IS fucking hot - but she definitely was hotter here, and in all of 06 tbh but especially here. MVP's debut was HILARIOUS for JBL's commentary (WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU JOHN?!). I hadn't watched Taker/Kennedy for a while so I didn't remember it quite as well, but God was it ever so poorly paced, but the (long term USELESS but still there and still executed brilliantly) armwork and the story of Kennedy trying to find a way to bring Taker down were definite goods. Rey/Chavo is largely HATE SPOTZ, but who cares, there were some rather sick ones and they never ignored the story. Benoit/Regal was the sex as you all know. And the Fatal 4-Way was fun too, even if it does suffer from some forced epicness lol at that Batista/Lashley angry-face-off). THIS PPV IS THE FUCKING ALISON BRIE BLOWJOB.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've said this before, Ziggler passes the first and most important test for any wrestler: he's just plain fun to watch. I really don't understand how you can objectively watch a good Ziggler match and not enjoy yourself. He's very talented. He still has some things I'd like to see him get better at, mainly at pacing and making things mean more, but overall he's very good and one of my favorite guys to watch. Dolph also passes the remote test: when I see Ziggler coming out to wrestle, I NEVER change the channel, even if it's a ridiculous hardcore match against the Miz.
> 
> Dolph vs Bryan at Bragging Rights is one hell of a sweet match.


There are a handful of Ziggler matches that I really enjoy, but I find him usually very frustrating to watch. Everything is so *dated*; stale as a crouton. His look, his personality, his pacing, psychology, offense, on and on. I just see the unrealized potential and unfinished product. 

I walked out on Monday against Barrett, which couldn't have been any less engaging for the time and emphasis it got on the show. It's the kind of "great" match that led me away from the 'E so many years ago. He's got talent, but it isn't translating into something compelling. Those 10 punches in the turnbuckle. Those. God. Awful. Elbow. Drops. He sells and bumps very well, but even that is counterbalanced by him being so damn cooperative in the ring. It's just bare-bones WWE formula with no subtle twists, and even a recycled movelist. "Sweet Fame-Ass-Er, bro!":hang10:bow:no:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Brian Pillman v. Johnny B. Badd (WCW Fall Brawl 1995) ****1/4*

Fucking excellent match, goes into 'overtime' too.  Highly recommended.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I'm about to watch Edge-Hardy cage match for the first time, how much of the build to this was a shoot?

Really cant remember much about their feud.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> There are a handful of Ziggler matches that I really enjoy, but I find him usually very frustrating to watch. Everything is so *dated*; stale as a crouton. His look, his personality, his pacing, psychology, offense, on and on. I just see the unrealized potential and unfinished product.
> 
> I walked out on Monday against Barrett, which couldn't have been any less engaging for the time and emphasis it got on the show. It's the kind of "great" match that led me away from the 'E so many years ago. He's got talent, but it isn't translating into something compelling. Those 10 punches in the turnbuckle. Those. God. Awful. Elbow. Drops. He sells and bumps very well, but even that counterbalanced by him being so damn cooperative in the ring. *It's just bare-bones WWE formula with no subtle twists, and even a recycled movelist.* "Sweet Fame-Ass-Er, bro!":hang10:bow:no:


Yep. All the same these days. Nothing engaging in the slightest. Formulas are fine. If you know how to use it in a fashion that doesn't fall under the groove of exact repetition.



ATF said:


> There was the Dolph concussion too last year. As far as I know, Swagger was directly part of that one too.
> 
> Well he's not a "hazard", considering they were both accidents, but I wouldn't really say he has a shiny record after that.


:duck


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

...evil laughing ducks gon' be evil. :side:

What I tried to point out is not hating on Swagger though. He's a great wrestler after all. Just those coincidences there. But whatever.

EDIT: People, what's the general consensus on Henry/Finlay from Armageddon '08?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I LOVE Finlay/Henry from Armageddon. Awesome match. They have an even better one on ECW though, they might even have 2 better ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At this moment I'm realizing I enjoy Armageddon '08.

huh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why wouldn't you? Finlay/Henry, PUNK/MYSTERIO, Jericho/Cena, Hardy/Edge/HHH. Tis a shame that those two clowns wrestled each other for 16 minutes and achieved less than nothing. Could have gotten some Taker action instead during his career year.

Pillman/Badd might be Pillman's best performance in his career. Conflicted character stories rule.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I the only one who doesn't think Punk/Mysterio is good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Until the day I finally see it again. b/c memory serves; I dug it.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

What are all the Punk/Mysterio matches? The only ones I've seen are WrestleMania 26 and Capitol Punishment. Oddly enough, even though it's short, I think I like WM 26 better because they just cram SO much awesome into 7 minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio

Top three from them would probably still be SD 2/12/10, Over the Limit, & Capitol Punishment


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

cjack can you please watch the entire series and do short reviews for us? And what happened to that project from last year where people watched a series of matches between common opponents and reviewed said series? Can we bring that back?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> CM Punk vs Rey Mysterio
> 
> Top three from them would probably still be SD 2/12/10, Over the Limit, & Capitol Punishment


Thanks a lot (Y)

Wait, is Over the Limit the one where Punk gets busted open and they stop the match for a minute? Cause that's the only other besides WM 26 that I've seen. It was quite spectacular. I just love the sprint they had at WM.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

[YOUTUBE]xvg.qWLvHre[/YOUTUBE] I wouldnt expect everyone to appreciate this and hope someone does, but here is a highlight reel of two Thez/Rocca matches featuring some what I think for the early sixties are fascinating. The first filmed powerbomb in history improvised off a botched gutwrench piledriver. Argentine backbreaker, an armbar slam counter that may not rival Rampage by any means but for how early this is is sweet. A bridge counter that would be commonplace 30 years later. Cool if you ask me. Actually, the typical Rocca style was more elaborate and aerial but Lou had real heat with Rocca and refused to work the classic Rocca match. I would have to think Rocca and Carpentier were the first two big stars in US with the light on their feeet/foot offense attributes. Abe coleman wrestled that style earlier but was a workhorse midcarder.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Thanks a lot (Y)
> 
> Wait, is Over the Limit the one where Punk gets busted open and they stop the match for a minute? Cause that's the only other besides WM 26 that I've seen. It was quite spectacular. I just love the sprint they had at WM.


That's the one. 

WM match rules too. Down w/that.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Swagger's always been rather clunky or awkward in the ring. He's been standing in front of cameras, while Zeb is trying to cut an interview, and positions himself completely wrong for segments at times. If he was never let go for all those moments in the Real Americans run where Zeb openly told him where to move to or what to do, he won't be now. Injuries are one thing, but I can't imagine Vince being one to neglect sloppy presentation, either.

Accidents happen, and they happen more so from the lesser trained talents being hot-shotted onto Raw. Swagger's not outright dangerous, at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Meanwhile Kofi was sloppier than usual - jesus.. - vs Swagger on Monday & nothing about it was looked at any different. Yeah, Swagger getting busted up in his face is lesser than Barrett having a jacked up shoulder, but still. Shit happens. Especially when you're working vs someone who's shit. Bam. Easy cunt zinger.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

LATEST PART: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35919042-post2151.html

PART 10
(120-101)

(****1/4)
#120: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27









#119: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012









#118: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008









#117: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014









#116: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000









#115: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011









#114: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash









#113: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011









#112: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001









#111: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010









#110: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell









#109: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007









#108: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008









#107: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006









#106: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012









#105: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012









#104: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008









#103: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999









#102: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009









#101: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004







​*​


Spoiler: Updated list



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#158: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#157: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#156: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#155: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#154: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#153: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#152: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#151: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#150: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#149: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#148: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#147: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#146: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#145: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#144: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#143: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#142: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#141: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#129: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#128: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#127: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#126: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#125: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#124: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#123: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#122: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#121: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996
*(****1/4)*
#120: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27
#119: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
#118: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008
#117: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014
#116: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
#115: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011
#114: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
#113: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011
#112: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
#111: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
#110: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
#109: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
#108: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008
#107: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006
#106: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012
#105: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012
#104: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008
#103: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999
#102: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
#101: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I must have been laughing too hard over the Vickie/Steph debacle while reading the Raw recap to even realise Kofi had a match with Swags. Doesn't top Kofi, Ziggler and RVD teaming together on ME, though. Now that's a cringe-worthy talent combination. Poor Seth, he's now stuck with midcard talent that we don't care for, and a tablescrap deal from HHH, while Kane, Delberto and Orton get a chance at gold.

Still not as bad as how they've booked Reigns, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm always amazed that Kofi is still employed by the company. They got rid of DREW FUCKING MCINTYRE but kept Kofi? And Kofi is still on TV? Wha?

The one good thing Kofi ever did was kick Miz in the face and knock him out that one time. That was GLORIOUS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

EDIT.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I'm always amazed that Kofi is still employed by the company. They got rid of DREW FUCKING MCINTYRE but kept Kofi? And Kofi is still on TV? Wha?
> 
> The one good thing Kofi ever did was kick Miz in the face and knock him out that one time. That was GLORIOUS.


Natural faces (feces?) have a long shelf life in the 'E.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is anyone getting a 'Reported Attack Page' message when trying to click on my DM Channel?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope, tis all fine on my end.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

My AV prevents me from entering anything wrestling related on DM.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Dailymotion has been plagued by malware and fake Anti-Virus warnings dispersed as ads since the beginning of the year. Best to avoid for the meantime.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, anybody truly excited for MITB? I know I am... not. Probably the first time since 2010 I don't actually care that much about the MITB PPV. Sure, Usos/Wyatts and at least one of the MITB matches can be good. But I seriously don't know. Despite us not having a truly awful PPV this year so far (ER and PB for me weren't Godawful for sure), we might be on the brink of the worst MITB PPV to date - and the first bad one too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> My AV prevents me from entering anything wrestling related on DM.





Rah said:


> Dailymotion has been plagued by malware and fake Anti-Virus warnings dispersed as ads since the beginning of the year. Best to avoid for the meantime.


Glad it isn't just me then. The FAQ and Contact pages are the same reported attack pages.  Some pages are fine though. Think ill leave it for a while then TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> So, anybody truly excited for MITB? I know I am... not. Probably the first time since 2010 I don't actually care that much about the MITB PPV. Sure, Usos/Wyatts and at least one of the MITB matches can be good. But I seriously don't know. Despite us not having a truly awful PPV this year so far (ER and PB for me weren't Godawful for sure), we might be on the brink of the worst MITB PPV to date - and the first bad one too.


I haven't cared about the product since after WM when they completely killed Bryan's booking as champion with the Kane feud. Now with Bryan injured and Shield split up and Cesaro going nowhere there really is nothing left for me to give a damn about . I'll likely check out the PPV anyway since I download them for my mate, but meh, not exactly excited for it or anything and I'll likely skip everything bar the ladder matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I just can't wait until Brock's return. Probably just me lol but IDGAF.

If you Google a Daily Motion page. Most say 'This site may be harmful to your computer' underneath. A sign there anyways.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm with you Zep. I don't care how bad the booking and writing gets, seeing the Beast Incarnate step through the curtains and start to wreck shit will always make my ears perk up.

The good news is, seeing as Brock has now conquered the Streak, I would bet he's in line for a title shot at Summerslam. And if you look at all the contestants who actually have a shot at winning the title at MitB (ie everyone except for ADR and Kane) Brock could have a kick ass match with anyone of them. If Bryan returns in time for SS and that's coupled with Brock getting a shot at the title, atleast Summerslam should be pretty good, on paper. I swear to Christ though if they do something stupid like put Bryan with Brock at SS for a #1 contenders spot, I'm giving up all hope. That's a huge money match that should be saved until WM 31.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I think most people know where Brock is at SS :lol

You must of missed that thread breh 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How is the Royal Rumble 2000 as a whole event? haven't watched a single match from that event, seen glimpses of the infamous street fight between Cactus and Hunter though, so I expect that to be good, what else?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

HHH/Cactus is perfect, Hardys/Dudleys is awesome, 30-Man Rumble, Outlaws/Acolytes and Angle/Tazz are all a blast, everything else (except Mae Young's underwear) is totally watchable. Yeah, RR 2000 is fucking amazing overall.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2000 rumble match is WOAT IMO 


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----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nothing is worse than the 1999 Rumble.


----------



## Chiller88 (May 21, 2005)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> How is the Royal Rumble 2000 as a whole event? haven't watched a single match from that event, seen glimpses of the infamous street fight between Cactus and Hinter though, so I expect that to be good, what else?


The show as a whole I think is among the best in Rumble history, at least from the ones I've seen. HHH/Cactus is amazing, perhaps MOTY. Hardys/Dudleys is a great Tables match. Taz/Angle is a fun opener. The Rumble match is pretty good. The rest is pretty solid. Yea, this show is must-see if you ask me.

1993 and 1999 Rumble matches are WOAT. I haven't seen the '93 one in ages though.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

2000 Rumble is for sure in the bottom 10 for me tbh, disappointing match after that 5 star WWF title match 

though 99 is probably the worst


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm the biggest fan in the world of Jericho/Chyna/Holly from Royal Rumble 2000. Jericho's antics alone can make the worst of matches into something fun. Definition of elite. Managed to also get two other good matches with Chyna, which are two more than any other wrestler ever besides :henry1 (who has one to his name).

The six-man tag from Main Event this past week had one of the funniest things I've seen in a match. Jack Swagger had RVD in a submission hold, but he put on the submission too close to the ropes. RVD reached and grabbed the ropes, but then he RELEASED his grip from the ropes for reasons unknown. The submission is still locked on and RVD continues to make himself suffer. What did Dolph Ziggler and Seth Rollins do to be surrounded by such insolence?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I still wonder why is RVD sucking so much this year. Even Cesaro failed to get a good match out of him. The only person who actually succeded at that was, guess who, *BARRETT* :barrett

Anyways, I swear to God that I'm more excited for Big E/Rusev II (which I didn't even knew was going to happen until I checked Wikipedia) than I am for, like half of the rest of the MITB card.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp, there are only 5 matches announced so far, and two are shitty divas matches so... :lelbron. Jobber in the bank is a dark-horse match for me to be good, if RVD just lays under the ring for most of it, and Kofi just horribly sells a ladder shot for most should be fine
~~~~~~~
I think its just you euros, DM is virus-free for me, but DM is the absolute WOAT for me anyways so I never use it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually there are 7 matches announced - the MITB matches, the Divas matches, Usos/Wyatts, Big E/Rusev II and Rybaxel/Dusties Nº1276. I only knew about the latter two today though.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao :lmao @ USO/Wyatts having another match on PPV when we see this match on raw/sd every week for the past 2-3 months, is there a stip or just the compete same match ? God wwe booking is lazy as can be

Who are Dusties ?

Edit: nvm rhodes bros. why are they in a match w/ Ryback/Axel ? Dont answer I dont care :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goldust and Stardust. The Dusties. Or, as I just made that name up... THE DUSTY BROTHERS - see what I did there? 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Nothing beats "Ben and Jerry" as a name for the Benoit/Jericho team.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, Bangle and Redge say hello :side:.

And DEAD SEXY for the team of HBK and Undertaker that I always wanted to happen .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Pfft, Bangle and Redge say hello :side:.
> 
> And DEAD SEXY for the team of HBK and Undertaker that I always wanted to happen .


Yeah, i think the only time they tagged together 2on2 was at a House Show.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

there is a new megatorrent for Benoit. 270 matches in the WWF/E. Not sure why they had to get some shitty E matches and not get some good WCW/NJPW/ECW matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Unforgiven 2005*

Edge. Hardy. Cage. Blood. Violence. LITA. FAP.


*Ric Flair Vs Carlito - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Old Lion Vs Young Lion. The Young Lion is trying to use his youth and quickness to his advantage, while the Old Lion tries to rely on what kept him leader of the pack for so many years. And when you have chops that'll rip nipples off and thumbs that adore poking out eyes, then even an Old Lion stands a chance!

Flair chops a bunch of times, Carlito does... whatever the fuck he does to control a match and make me wanna sleep and then... omg... and then it happens.

FLAIR GOES TO THE ROPES AND DOESN'T GET THROWN OFF!!! YEY!!!

He tries again and ends up getting dropkicked .

Carlito grabs an apple, takes a bite and... FLAIR PUNCHES HIM IN THE MOUTH! CARLITO IS CHOKING ON APPLE! FIGURE FOUR! TAP OUT!

THE NATURE BOY RIC FLAIR IS THE NEW INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPION!!!

Flair was super fun, Carlito was super shit.

Flair drags some whores out of the crowd to celebrate with.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


FAP FAP LITA is backstage and wants to make Edge happy.


*Torrie Wilson & Victoria Vs Trish Stratus & Ashley*

:lmao remember WWE's version of the Beautiful People? Torrie (and that stupid little dog), Victoria and Candice Michelle. At least they were actually hot, unlike most of TNA's Beautiful People (one specifically... urgh)

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*The Big Show Vs Snitsky*

:mark: potential for a monster battle here.

ZZ TOP IN THE AUDIENCE~!

Lol, they try to show us what happened a few weeks ago but Show jumps the gun and charges at Snitsky so they have to cut off the video and go back to live action .

:lmao when Snitsky locks in a rest hold they actually cut to the video from 3 weeks ago so we can finally see the shots to Show with the ring bell. FUCK REST HOLDS LETS SHOW VIOLENCE!!!

BACK SUPLEX TO THE BIG SHOW~!

CHOKESLAM~! And it's over with.

Fairly short, but a fun battle between these two big dudes.

After the match Show levels Snitsky with the ring bell for some revenge. He's about to leave but remembers Snitsky hit him TWICE, so he needs to get another shot in too lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Shelton Benjamin Vs Kerwin White*

:lmao oh man, Kerwin White.

:lmao

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Matt Hardy Vs Edge - Steel Cage Match*

:mark: I've been waiting for this one :mark:.

Matt throws some fucking AMAZING punches early on. They make one hell of a sound too.

Hardy is determined to destroy Edge inside the cage, while Edge is all about simply trying to win and ESCAPE.

Sweet counter out of the Twist of Fate, as Edge shoves Hardy right into the steel cage, and fuck me Matt takes one hell of a bump into it lol. And now Edge can continue what he started at SummerSlam, and focus in on the head of Matt.

Why did Edge never wrestle like this on a regular basis? He's actually really fucking good at trying to smash Hardy's head in worse than that time in Game of Thrones with you know who and whatshisname (NO SPOILERS HERE, YOU ARE WELCOME).

Hardy is super awesome at selling his head injury too. He looks out of it, he's out on his feet, throwing punches at nobody etc. Great stuff. 

OH SHIT at that powerbomb into the side of the cage. Hardy's head catches on the top rope on the way down too. Shiiiit. That HAD to fuck him up a bit.

The longer the match goes on, the more confident Edge gets that hell, he might ACTUALLY be able to take Matt out for good. So escape is no longer an option. Sheer DESTRUCTION of Matt Hardy is all that's on his mind.

POWERBOMB OFF THE TOP ROPE~! :lmao at the fans reaction. Two teenagers or something (MALE, Cody...) both cringe like it was the most horrific thing ever .

MATT HARDY WILL NOT DIE!!! He kicks out, then proceeds to BITE the hands of Edge!!!

Almost a call back spot to SummerSlam with Matt dropping Edge head first down onto the turnbuckle, only here it's the turnbuckle cover and not the ring post, but it's enough to knock Edge a little loopy!

Edge perhaps realises that Hardy WILL NOT DIE for real, and decides he needs to escape this time.

HARDY COMEBACK~! Edge is tied up in the ropes and Matt is unloading lefts and rights all over his face!!!

EDGE IS BLEEDING~! Damn, I actually just realised that all the offence to Matt's head in the match DIDN'T bust him open. So when Matt makes EDGE bleed it really puts over the whole REVENGE~! part for me.

Matt begins to target the head of Edge now, but he wants to come off the ropes with the MITB briefcase (that Lita sent into the ring earlier), and that costs him when Edge pushes the referee into the ropes.

SPEAR INTO THE SIDE OF THE CAGE~!

Edge tries to escape and... SIDE EFFECT OFF THE TOP ROPE~!

Lita (looking VERY Fap Fap btw) tries to send a chair into the ring too, but the referee takes it away... so he dives into the cage herself to break up a potential 3 count!

TWIST OF FATE TO LITA~!

HAHAHAHAHA SPEAR TO MATT RIGHT AFTERWARDS. DON'T YOU FUCKING TOUCH LITA YOU PRICK!!! 

Edge again tries to escape, but ends up getting his face smashed into the cage a bunch of times. Matt climbs the cage and...

LEG DROP~!

That looked spectacular.

MATT HARDY WINS~!

This is tremendous. Fuck me, a year with 2 epic, EPIC cage matches on PPV. Insane. Right up there with Flair/HHH for sure. Christ knows which I think is better. This? No. HHH/Flair? No. Maybe. I DON'T KNOW. They both rule.

*Rating: ****3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 8*


*Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs The Hurricane & Rosey - World Tag Team Championship Match*

Murdoch has an awesome look for wrestling. Fuck the "office" in WWE who just want 6'5 270lb guys with bodies like Arnold Swashinager.. Swarshinegger... that dude that played The Terminator.

Anyway, yeah, Murdoch has a great look. He's a little podgy but can move around and looks mean and nasty and legit seems like a dude you wouldn't wanna have a bar fight with.

:lmao love him trying to come on to Lillian Garcia mid-match. But it was all a plan to make Hurricane come off the apron and get him, leading to a fucking sick DDT from the corner of the ring onto the floor :mark:. And of course this now leads the S.H.I.T. all alone!

Rosey tries to fight off 2 opponents by himself, and does ok for a little while. Hurricane is being carried out, and sees his partner in trouble on the titantron, and comes back down to help! He tags in and just starts throwing a right hand at everyone because his left arm is dead.

SWEET N SOUR~!

NEW TAG CHAMPIONS!!!

Fun match!

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Maria wants to know why people call Chris Masters the MASTURBATE :lmao. Then she starts signing the TMNT theme song. Maria was awesome.


*Chris Masters Vs Shawn Michaels*

Masters attacks HBK before the bell and applies the Master Lock!!! The bell rings and Masters goes for it again, but Shawn is ready for it now and manages to escape before it's locked in, and begins to get a little revenge on the young punk for that quick start!

Man, Shawn is PISSED lol. He's out to destroy Masters for daring to attack him before the bell it seems. Sends him into the steel steps a few times, then goes for a chair! But the referee takes it away, allowing Masters to take advantage.

POWERBOMB INTO THE RING POST. TWICE. HBK'S BACK IS FUCKED!!! :mark:

Back work by Masters :mark:. Some great clubbing blows, elbows and knees. Simple, but looks great. Masters' first run in WWE outside of this match really wasn't very good, but you could see the potential he had to be as great as he ended up being when he returned, and this is probably THE match to see that potential.

Anyone else love when guys do a backbreaker then hold their opponent on their knee and push them down onto it? One of my favourite submissions for back work tbh.

TORTURE RACK~!

Fuck me what a sick clothesline to cut off HBK :mark:.

BATTLE TO LOCK IN THE MASTERLOCK~! HBK grabs the referee, then low blows Masters!!! The veteran certainly knows what he's doing!

Shawn starts his comeback and ignores all the fucking back work which pisses me off to no end lol.

SWEET CHIN MASTER LOCK! Masters countered the superkick right into a Master Lock!!!

HBK tries to do the old "push off the ropes and roll the guy up" spot but Masters is too strong and doesn't fall back. Shawn is fading, but the fans bring him back into the match, and this time instead of trying to push off the ropes, he climbs OVER them, putting himself in the ropes so Masters has to release the hold!!! Now that was fucking SMART and awesome.

Great little sequence at the end right into a superkick, and Shawn Michaels picks up the win!

Other than Shawn ignoring the back work during his main comeback, this was great. Masters looked awesome. And the match should have been better, but HBK actually fucked up. Bah. SELL THE BACK YOU TWAT.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


:lmao Flair takes a FLAIR BUMP from shagging 4 women during the PPV.


*John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship Match*

:lmao at Lawler trying to sound all smart and shit, by asking if either JR or Coach could remember who Cena's debut match in WWE was against. Without missing a beat JR quickly answers "Angle" and Lawler is just SILENT :lmao. As if JIM FUCKING ROSS wouldn't know that :lmao.

So Angle out-wrestles Cena at the start. Cena tries to turn it into a brawl. Then Angle starts throwing out suplexes. You know the deal if you've seen any match they've had lol.

I like how Cena comes into this match with a "bad" ankle, and it's all taped up and shit, and Angle clearly looks at it before the bells rings... then doesn't do a damn thing with the ankle until like 15 minutes into the match when he randomly goes for an Ankle Lock... but Cena kicks him off so he decides against going back to it until his Angle Slam fails him AS USUAL :lmao.

:lmao at Cena hopping on one leg for the 5 knuckle shuffle. On one hand I'm happy he's selling the ankle... but on the other hand I find it unbelievably fucking stupid he tried to do that move on one leg :lmao.

F-U~! Oh but look the referee is down.

PUNCH TO THE FACE WITH THE GOLD MEDAL :lmao.

ANKLE LOCK~!

BISCHOFF SHOWS UP AND... shoves the WWE title in Cena's face and tells him to say goodbye lol.

Bischoff tries to pull a screwjob on Cena, but Cena shoves Angle off and Bischoff takes the worst bump through the ropes ever.

WWE TITLE TO THE FACE~! :lmao the referee saw it and Cena is DQ'd :lmao.

Giant load of MEH.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10.5*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Aaaaaand i still never watched Hardy/Edge (Cage) lol.  Ill have to tomorrow now, always meant to.

Did notice this match on YT that ive never heard of with the late, great Eddie:

_Eddie Guerrero vs. Super Crazy (ROH 2/23/02)_






*It is from ROH's official channel so hope its ok to post.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

CAL OUTTA NOWHERE~!

Great review of what I thought was a good show. I always thought Show/Snitsky was pretty good, even when I had the "outsiders" mindset of "everything big men is rubbish". I'd definitely put Flair/Hunter ahead of Edge/Matt though, but both are Cage match classics. And Cal, it's SCHWARZENEGGER.

Now it's the best time for you to move into what probably was the worst PPV of 05 - The Great American Bash. Eddie/Rey (and, to a MILLIONS OF MILES lesser extent, Taker/Hassan) await you... but so does utter shit like Mexicools/BWO, MNM/Road Warriors and THE WORST MAIN EVENT EVER - BATISTA/JBL.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope. I'll do GAB after JD. Wanna watch the awesome Eddie/Rey PPV matches in order. Thinking either Backlash or Survivor Series next, since JD and GAB need to be watched in order for Eddie/Rey, and NM and Armageddon need to be watched in order for Taker/Orton, and Vengeance is being saved for last. BL and SVS don't really have anything on them I don't wanna watch before something else or anything so yey for that I guess. Or maybe I'll do JD next, then GAB, then Backlash because JD and GAB look rather awful outside of Eddie/Rey and Backlash has a few matches I know I already like, so that's something to look forward to.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone remember the date of the Cena/Orton match on Raw, think it was Feb. Watching it live, I remember enjoying* it. 

* Can't believe I said that lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Ben and Jerry is definitely the best tag team name I've seen. :lol



The Fab Four said:


> Anyone remember the date of the Cena/Orton match on Raw, think it was Feb. Watching it live, I remember enjoying* it.
> 
> * Can't believe I said that lol.


YES! Join the bandwagon because there's plenty of room. 

k7wRVf1on5Uesy5qss0


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Nope. I'll do GAB after JD. Wanna watch the awesome Eddie/Rey PPV matches in order. Thinking either Backlash or Survivor Series next, since JD and GAB need to be watched in order for Eddie/Rey, and NM and Armageddon need to be watched in order for Taker/Orton, and Vengeance is being saved for last. BL and SVS don't really have anything on them I don't wanna watch before something else or anything so yey for that I guess. Or maybe I'll do JD next, then GAB, then Backlash because JD and GAB look rather awful outside of Eddie/Rey and Backlash has a few matches I know I already like, so that's something to look forward to.


Alright then, whatever makes you happy . 

JD indeed looks pretty piss poor on paper, but it's an OK show. Eddie/Rey is a classic as you already know, the opening tag is pretty good and Show/Carlito is passable too. Of course, great majority of what you think of it also comes from your thoughts on Cena/JBL I Quit - if you like that, this show is great, if not... not so much. Rest of the stuff is what it is - London/Chavo is meh, OJ/Heidenreich is :lmao levels of bad (it's an immediate NO on paper and it truly fulfills that), and Angle/Booker... that is something else. It is shit as a match, as expected, but even though I'm no Kurt Angle fan, I have always enjoyed his work as an entertainer, and it's crazy how HE, more than anyone, turned THAT ANGLE from a Katie Vick-low debacle to the single most hilarious thing in WWE history.

I'm very serious when I say the video package for Angle/Booker is the best thing about the show. Yes, it's even better than Eddie/Rey. It is FUCKING. HILARIOUS. :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

02/10 is the date. Week after that, Cena had the Cesaro match. Fuck sake, i cant stand the fucker 99% of the time, and i show up with two really good matches lol.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> Yeah, i think the only time they tagged together 2on2 was at a House Show.


They teamed on Raw once against JBL and Vladimar Kozlov. So DEAD SEXY IS ALIVE


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Great review Cal. Wouldn't go that high on Edge/Matt Cage myself, but I'd definitely put it over Flair/HHH (which is an awesome cage match in it's own right). 

It's been a long time since I've seen Flair/Carlito, but didn't Flair cut a promo afterwards saying it was better than winning the World Title 16 times or some shit like that? :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Is anyone getting a 'Reported Attack Page' message when trying to click on my DM Channel?


I got some malware scare shit when trying to watch some stuff on RealHero's page last night. All is fine now tho. So maybe it was something screwy w/Dailymotion altogether.

---------

Hardy vs Edge steel cage & Masters plz. mark Show vs Snitsky too. And Shelton vs KERWIN. Ok, that's all I like from that show. But hey, it's half. And two are three of the main events, so that's not bad. If only the main event didn't suck, I'd call it a really successful outing. I can look the other way on Carlito being garbage b/c Flair succeeds out of it, Divas, & a filler tag championship match. Got to fill three hours...


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I got Malware rubbish on gumtree yesterday.



#BadNewsSanta said:


> It's been a long time since I've seen Flair/Carlito, but didn't Flair cut a promo afterwards saying it was better than winning the World Title 16 times or some shit like that? :lmao


I remember in 2007 when Carlito and Flair were tag partners and Carlito said to Flair ''you're about to be a 17 time champion - we have a shot at the tag titles''. Confused the fuck out of me at the time who was pretty new to wrestling.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

While we are on the topic of Old Man Flair can someone rec me some good matches of his WWE Run from 2002 to 2008


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just give ya a few singles, not including tags and evolution 6 mans

vs. Big Show 7/11/06
vs. HHH 5/13/03
vs Benoit 5/8/04
vs. HHH Taboo Tuesday 2005
vs. HHH Survivor Series 2005
vs HBK Wrestlemania 24
vs HBK Japan 2005
vs Foley summerslam 06


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

NAITCH said:


> Just give ya a few singles, not including tags and evolution 6 mans
> 
> vs. Big Show 7/11/06
> vs. HHH Raw 2003
> ...


Thank you man I will go find these matches on the internet


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pretty good tag match from Smackdown this week. Cesaro & Del Rio vs. Van Dam & Ziggler. Fun stuff.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Angle vs. Flair - Raw 6/27/2005
Edge vs. Flair - Raw 1/16/2006

Also a ton of Evolution tags in 2004.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

Holy crap Macho Man vs. Liger :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:
Two of my favourites. Posted if anyone else wants to watch this dream match


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I got some malware scare shit when trying to watch some stuff on RealHero's page last night. All is fine now tho. So maybe it was something screwy w/Dailymotion altogether.
> 
> ---------


Yeah, definitely DM issue. Seemed to be fine last night though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just been clearing up my hard drive a little, deleting shit I don't want or need any more to make space and shit, and found a folder with some Raw 07 matches. Turns out I downloaded a bunch of Raw 07 matches from a "best of wwe 2007" pack a couple of months ago . Totally forgot about it. So I decided to watch a few matches .

First one was Benoit Vs Lashley from the WWE Draft show in 07. This was really fucking good tbh. They do a lot of mat work, and it looks really good because Benoit is Benoit and Lashley is pretty darn good at amateur wrestling. Doesn't look as smooth as the Angle/Benoit stuff used to, but that's a good thing because this was more rugged and "real". Lashley looked real good throughout the match mixing up his amateur stuff with his power, and Benoit is probably the best guy to do it with because he can do basically anything in the ring and make it look good too. In the end Lashley gets the win, and Benoit is drafted to ECW!!! So I'm assuming this is Benoit's final match on Raw (since he was a SD star at the time anyway lol). http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7sf9m00GE5ylu8eQ5u just uploaded it for anyone that wants to see it.

Also watched Benoit Vs Cena, which happens a couple of weeks before WM, and HBK is on commentary. Another nice physical match, but it's only like 8 minutes long so they don't get the time to really have a classic, which is a shame. Still fun to watch.

And finally just got done with a super fun 8 man tag, with HBK, Cena, Batista & Undertaker taking on Kennedy, MVP, Orton & Edge. This was just before NWO, so we got all 4 guys from the main event tag on that show teaming together before hand. Undertaker is without a doubt the KING in this, and most of his greatness comes from simply being on the apron. Staring at HBK like he wants to kill him despite the fact they are both "good guys" and on the same team... scaring Orton shitless because Orton thought Undertaker was coming into the ring to break up a count, making MVP run like the wind because he tried to break up a count and Undertaker was not pleased . And then at the end HBK nearly decks him with Sweet Chin Music, then Orton shoves Shawn into the Dead Man and oh boy, that's not good. Match ends with Undertaker chokeslamming Shawn, and Batista Batista Bombing Cena. Oh and the actual match, Cena was a pretty good FIP and the heels were fine controlling him and shit. But yeah, total UNDERTAKER show.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

*Brasil vs. Chile - ******

Best climax to a match and best victory I've ever seen. GOAT. Beat that WWE.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Julio Cesar's bumping was top class, but unfortunately Hulk's selling didn't convince the crowd most of the time


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Chile should've won. They were cutting passes almost the entire 2nd half and basically whooping their asses. But Brasil meets Colombia next - ain't getting so lucky this time, I hope. Dat James Rodriguez.

Anyway, back into, you know, WRESTLING. Well, talking about the whole "rugged and real" feeling you mentioned in your Benoit/Lashley mini-review, Cal, that is indeed something really good for me. But I'm pretty sure that there are some people out there that don't really care about that and that prefer the flamboyant Angle-ish smooth and 100mph style. The argument is see for that is that "wrestling is fake, I don't give a fuck about realism, whatever entertains me the most is the one I like better". Not sure what y'all think of this.

Personally, I can see why someone would fall to that - it IS entertaining, you have to admit it -, but I prefer myself gritty and more mature Finlay/Regal-esque matches for the same reason that movies like Se7en, The Departed and The Dark Knight are amongst my favorite movies ever (hell, Se7en IS my favorite movie ever): they embrace the absurdity of being movies alone, but at the same time, they are done with more realism and grittiness, or better, with a touch of actual maturity, rather than just accepting the surrealism and going all cartoonish. Not that that's a bad thing when done right (many, many cases of it done right), but I take dark, gritty and realistic above over-the-top all day myself. Except if it's Pixar. If it's Pixar, I'll almost always take Pixar.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

"whatever entertains me the most is the one I like better"

This applies to everyone, I think.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

...touché .

Nevertheless, I think you understood what I meant.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Kinda. I mean you sound you were saying that the Kurt Angle-ish go-go-go style is entertaining but you prefer a Finlay or Regal. That's a different tastes and strokes, thing, but I don't reeeeeally agree with



> Personally, I can see why someone would fall to that - it IS entertaining, you have to admit it


I DO understand why someone likes that kind of wrestling, I mean I'm not going to tell anybody what to like or dislike, but I don't find that ''Kurt Angle'' style entertaining. Like, at all, honestly. If I did I certainly wouldn't be shitting on it whenever I do. I definitely think wrestling that's fun to watch and wrestling that's good can be separate. Like, some decent, well-worked wrestling can also be kind of boring; I think someone like Brad Armstrong is an example of a guy who I'd probably consider ''good'' but never really did anything for me from an entertainment area. On the other hand HHH/Steiner is one of the worst matches of all time but is also kind of fun to watch because it's like five botchamania videos. But I truly, really, honestly don't find that ''Kurt Angle'' main event wrestling fun to watch. I'm not calling you out for saying ''you have to admit it'', but, yeah - I don't find it entertaining, fun to watch...nothing.  Not that that style and the Finlay/Regal style are polar opposites or anything, anyway. I can list a shitload of guys who I like a lot but don't wrestle terribly realistically. Lucha alone has a bunch (when they aren't punching each other in the face and covered in blood like a cactus that's had water balloons thrown at it....water balloons full of blood...)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, when I mention how it is entertaining, I mean in the whole sense of how that kind of matches go - it's all done at Bugatti Veyron-speed pace, spots abound, with no real sense to go other than just throwing bombs at each other for the sake of it. Like you said, it is a very tastes thing, but personally, that kind of style I don't find good at all, but if I want to kill off some time with wrestling without going into "critic" mode, I would gladly do with a match of that kind. It's... easy to the eyes, putting it that way. But yeah. 

Thinking about it, that is true that there are a good number of guys out there whose wrestling is good but not exactly realistic. Well, then again, nothing in wrestling really is that realistic when you think about it 

Anyways, in the context of Kurt Angle (very original in this thread 8*D), kinda made me wanna watch some GOOD performances of his. Of preference, not against Austin. Kinda wanna see something else from him that worked. Maybe I should rewatch that Backlash '01 match vs Benoit (an actual great match of theirs together). Or one of the Taker matches, maybe the Smackdown '03 one.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Have you seen the awesome match with Marty Jannetty?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've heard of it, and that Jannetty was almost returning after his performance, but I don't think I've watched it. I will track it and watch it if I can a short bit later.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The match that got Jannetty a job in WWE again. Until he fucked himself out of a job. Again. Shame he had all his problems, he would have been great to have around all those years when he wasn't there. Would have made a nice addition to the roster in 2000 onwards for sure, with guys like Angle (before he sucked), Benoit (before he you know what), Eddie (  ), Jericho (when he wasn't being shitty), HBK, Undertaker (ok probably would have been a total squash unless they'd booked Jannetty anywhere similar to HBK), HHH (maybe the other Rocker could have had good chemistry with him...), Henry (oh shit Heel Henry Vs Babyface Jannetty), Lesnar (see the Henry thing), Mysterio (weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee) and others.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Two questions Cal:
1) have you started Judgment Day yet?
2) when was the last time you updated your blog?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not yet and oh shit I need to update that today :lmao.

BRB Updating Blog :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, Angle/Jannetty was pretty awesome. I watched it in AWFUL quality, but that's all I could be bothered to be find. The middle-ish portion of the match, when Angle was keeping Jannetty down, admitedly was on it's way to getting boring to me, however, the first and last few minutes were perfect. Most definitely thanks to an INCREDIBLE babyface performance by Jannetty, who not only kept up with Angle, but was turning the tide in his side for multiple times. But in the end the fresher, younger and more succesful Angle finally makes him tap. Great, great stuff. It is every bit as good, and in many ways better, as the Shawn/Angle matches. Either ***3/4 or **** for it, but probably the first.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I simply LOVE Angle/Jannetty. I went in depth about why before, but suffice to say I think it rules and will always rule. That match, the Flair match on Raw, the Eddie match on SD, and the HBK WM match are really the only things I liked from Angle in 2005. He was mostly shit otherwise.

Watching Vader/Shamrock IYH right now. God I love this.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:vader and Shamrock is badass

Been on a Royal Rumble kick lately. Watched 1996 Royal Rumble last night. If you can get past the first two matches it's great. Fun IC title match with Razor and Goldust, a really underrated Rumble match and a super underrated title match with Bret Hart & Taker. After arguably the worst year in pro wrestling history (1995) this was pretty good out of nowhere. 

What's everyone's top 5 Money in the Bank (from just the PPV MitB) matches?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I simply LOVE Angle/Jannetty. I went in depth about why before, but suffice to say I think it rules and will always rule. That match, the Flair match on Raw, the Eddie match on SD, and the HBK WM match are really the only things I liked from Angle in 2005. He was mostly shit otherwise.



Show/Angle/JBL from the rumble says hello


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Show/Angle/JBL from the rumble says hello


No it doesn't :side:. Angle's 2005 was hilarious from a character standpoint, but I can honestly say right now that Kofi Kingston's 2013 was better than Angle's in-ring 2005. Will give the man credit for that very good Jannetty match. Will barely give Jannetty any credit though, and I'm shocked that this is considered to be a highlight performance of his. Marty has sneezed and put on better performances than that, and he completely screwed up his comeback.

Now for the more interesting discussion. Except for shootfighting, I don't think wrestling is meant to be realistic. Instead, it should aim to be logical, which is a different thing from being realistic. Let's be honest; even our favorite Benoit/Regal/Finlay matches in the realm of "actual fighting" do not truly look realistic, but there is a certain logic behind them that allows us to enjoy and relate to them. It's also why we enjoy our "fun" matches or gimmick bouts. Something like a hell in a cell match or a crazy Hakushi sprint also isn't realistic, but when done well, they don't insult our intelligence because they follow a certain logic behind them.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Fools, that triple threat at the rumble was awesome, as was the triple threat from Taboo Tuesday with Cena and HBK


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Don't know where else to post this so I'll put this here.


Other than Art of Wrestling, I've never really listened to a lot of wrestling podcasts until the last week or so. Decided to give Austin's and Jericho's podcast a try and liked both of them very much. From Jericho, I listened the two part interview with Edge & Heyman and the interviews with Cesaro and Bruce Kulick of Kiss mark. Especially liked the Heyman & Edge ones. 
I could listen Heyman speak all day. He's so good. If some of you haven't listened to it yet, give it a try. It's some fantastic stuff about Lesnar, Punk, ECW, Vince, Studio 54 etc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Chris Jericho & Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko & Chris Benoit (Hildebrand Tribute 11.29.1998) *



Knoxville, Tennessee in the main event of the Brian Hildebrand Tribute show. 
Brian Hildebrand was a well-respected WCW referee and close friend of the group who would tragically die of cancer in September 1999. 
The memorial show which was held on November 28th 1998 was not televised


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

^^^

HOLY SHIT. I've been looking for this match for seven years! Now I can't wait to give this five stars.

Does anyone know anything about the online PPVs that WCW ran?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> Don't know where else to post this so I'll put this here.
> 
> 
> Other than Art of Wrestling, I've never really listened to a lot of wrestling podcasts until the last week or so. Decided to give Austin's and Jericho's podcast a try and liked both of them very much. From Jericho, I listened the two part interview with Edge & Heyman and the interviews with Cesaro and Bruce Kulick of Kiss mark. Especially liked the Heyman & Edge ones.
> I could listen Heyman speak all day. He's so good. If some of you haven't listened to it yet, give it a try. It's some fantastic stuff about Lesnar, Punk, ECW, Vince, Studio 54 etc.


I'm all about these 4 podcasts: Austin's Show, Jericho's Show, JR's Show, and Cheap Heat which is on Grantland.com (the other 3 can be found on podcastone.come)

Austin especially has become one of the best interviewers ever. All his shows are compelling. I think my favorite to date from the Rattlesnake are the 2 Vader shows and the 2 shows with Naitch, which really need to be heard by all wrestling fans. Steve and Nature Boy sit in a hotel room getting drunk trading stories, it's absolutely priceless.

The Vader one is so cool because anyone that has ever watched Vader wrestle will realize he has one of the best mean streaks in the ring and comes off as this total badass who loves to fuck people up. Then you listen to his interview, and man, I don't think there is a nicer guy in wrestling. He doesn't say one bad word about anyone, admits he was an asshole to Orndorff and deserved to get hit, and just seems like a genuinely decent human being. I love those kind of juxtapositions. So many retired wrestlers come off as bitter and marks for themselves, Vader is just as humble and gracious as a human can be. 



The Fab Four said:


> *Chris Jericho & Eddie Guerrero vs Dean Malenko & Chris Benoit (Hildebrand Tribute 11.29.1998) *
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm gonna watch this now thanks for posting....didn't Foley also wrestle on this show? He talks at length in his book about Hildebrand and how much he loved him and also mentions wrestling in atleast 1 of his memorial shows.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Anyway, back into, you know, WRESTLING. Well, talking about the whole "rugged and real" feeling you mentioned in your Benoit/Lashley mini-review, Cal, that is indeed something really good for me. But I'm pretty sure that there are some people out there that don't really care about that and that prefer the flamboyant Angle-ish smooth and 100mph style. The argument is see for that is that "wrestling is fake, I don't give a fuck about realism, whatever entertains me the most is the one I like better". Not sure what y'all think of this.


Depends on the context. If it's something silly/kind of stupid but I love it such as a Chuck Taylor grenade spot where it's sold, but at the same time implied to be comical; I'm a fan. Real or not. But if it's AR Fox going up to the top rope w/a single handed knuckle lock, only to have his opponent stand there _(looking like a total buffoon_) while he bounces up & down four - five times for fuck knows why before hitting the move. Making everything look more fabricated than bad plastic surgery, then I just can't take it. I love this sport. Most of it is good & its something I'll always adore watching for sheer entertainment. But yeah, some stuff out there I just can't get behind.

there's also something stupid like Angle mat wrestling w/HBK & Michaels OUT-WRESTLES HIM. Poor logistics like that...why? when in so many matches w/Angle or anyone w/amateur background, usually have that come into play as a positive. And rightly so. Instead he's looking like a geek. For no solid reason whatsoever.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I love at the end of Austin's podcast with Vader, Leon tells all about the 'Kuwait incident'. Always interesting.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've only listened to a small handful of podcasts between Cornette, Austin and JR (not heard any Jericho ones yet), but I've enjoyed all of them so far. Last one I listened to was Russo on Austin's, and it was interesting. Learnt something new too; RUSSO TRAINED TO BE A WRESTLER. He actually trained for 6 months. With no intentions of being an in ring competitor but because he wanted in the business and figured that would be the best way in. Kinda surprised that he has NEVER mentioned it on any of the shoots I've watched from him. And it was Austin that brought it up first too, as he did a bunch of research before hand, so it's not like Russo just randomly came out with "oh hey I trained to be a wrestler" or anything. He's on the Unleashed Austin podcast on Tuesday too so should be interesting to hear what they have to say there.

Didn't watch JD 05 today, decided to have a break lol. Just watched those few Raw 07 matches, for fun and nothing more. Might take a little longer break to watch some other stuff I wanna watch, as sometimes doing those PPV rambles can really wear you down when only 2 or 3 matches on an entire show are worth sitting through .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Just finished watching that Quackenbush/Cesaro match from 2007, and it seems that The Wyatts have both the world as well as a time machine in their hands:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Jericho podcast with Heyman is fabulous. Heyman is as good to listen to outside of the ring.

Watching HHH/Punk (NOC).


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Depends on the context. If it's something silly/kind of stupid but I love it such as a Chuck Taylor grenade spot where it's sold, but at the same time implied to be comical; I'm a fan. Real or not. But if it's AR Fox going up to the top rope w/a single handed knuckle lock, only to have his opponent stand there _(looking like a total buffoon_) while he bounces up & down four - five times for fuck knows why before hitting the move. Making everything look more fabricated than bad plastic surgery, then I just can't take it. I love this sport. Most of it is good & its something I'll always adore watching for sheer entertainment. But yeah, some stuff out there I just can't get behind.
> 
> there's also something stupid like Angle mat wrestling w/HBK & Michaels OUT-WRESTLES HIM. Poor logistics like that...why? when in so many matches w/Angle or anyone w/amateur background, usually have that come into play as a positive. And rightly so. Instead he's looking like a geek. For no solid reason whatsoever.



See, I could totally be wrong, and this is just my opinion so it's not like I'm saying I'm right, but in the case of the Michaels/Angle Mania match, where Shawn "out wrestles" Kurt in the beginning, I NEVER saw it as Michaels just being straight up better on the mat than Angle for the match, story wise. I took it as Angle being so over zealous to prove his superiority to Michaels that he kept making simple mistakes that Shawn would capitalize on. It's not like Shawn was doing any crazy counters or sweet holds he was just catching Kurt with basic shit like the short arm scissors because Kurt wasn't affording Michaels the proper respect on the mat. He was trying to dominate him and in the process he kept fucking up the fundamentals. I mean I could be 100% wrong but that's just how I saw it. The story was Angle trying trying to prove he is better than Michaels in all aspects of wrestling, beating Jannetty and all that other jazz. So when the time for the match comes, Angle makes mistakes early on that cost him. Finally he settles in an ends up beating Michaels by making him tap in the center of the ring.

Generally, whenever someone other than a mat pro like Lesnar or Benoit would get the advantage on the mat over Kurt, I saw it story wise the same way: Kurt being over zealous trying to show his superiority and in the process being sloppy with his fundamentals.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The problem a lot of people have though is that Angle tells this story too much. It's lost all impact that it once ever had. I'm not arguing this, but there's also another perspective which is that Kurt is so much better than anyone else is on the mat (why is probably true) that no matter who gets to outwork him on the mat, it will still insult people's intelligence. Similar to how Rey Mysterio lifting up Big Show would cause people to go bonkers.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thinking about watching TLC IV (think its on one of WWE's Ladder DVD Sets). Havn't watched it in a long time i don't think.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Didnt even know this existed, nice little gem


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The problem a lot of people have though is that Angle tells this story too much. It's lost all impact that it once ever had. I'm not arguing this, but there's also another perspective which is that Kurt is so much better than anyone else is on the mat (why is probably true) that no matter who gets to outwork him on the mat, it will still insult people's intelligence. Similar to how Rey Mysterio lifting up Big Show would cause people to go bonkers.


That's an entirely different argument and one I happen to wholeheartedly agree with. I definitely think Kurt went to the well WAY too many times with that story, I don't know if it is due to laziness or if he just liked telling that story, but yea. Anytime the build for an Angle match focuses on the "who is a better wrestler" basic story, you can GUAURNTEE you will see him do the out wrestle routine, and that's just dumb.

Kurt Angle to me is the wrestling equivalent of Pistol Pete Maravich. Both guys had all the tools necessary to be the greatest ever, both were sidetracked by their flair for doing exciting moves/tricks instead of sticking to the basics and playing/wrestling smart and both had their careers derailed by injury and substance abuse issues. Wow, for anyone that's a hoops head like me, that comparison works on so many levels.

Funnyfaces: did you check out any of those shows I sent you?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think ill grab Mysterio/Cena off YT whilst im here, this is it, right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCeC5BcrJQo


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Didnt even know this existed, nice little gem


iirc that's the one where Cena wins by submission and some geeks went insane from that. Not Benoit insane, but close enough.



The Fab Four said:


> Thinking about watching TLC IV (think its on one of WWE's Ladder DVD Sets). Havn't watched it in a long time i don't think.


Love the madness. Now that's pure entertainment, for me.



Rah said:


> Just finished watching that Quackenbush/Cesaro match from 2007, and it seems that The Wyatts have both the world as well as a time machine in their hands:


i'd love to see their reaction on the counter-powerbomb back into the ring.

and YES chants during Punk vs Danielson from ROH circa '03 has that time warp beat. didn't know what was reality anymore.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> See, I could totally be wrong, and this is just my opinion so it's not like I'm saying I'm right, but in the case of the Michaels/Angle Mania match, where Shawn "out wrestles" Kurt in the beginning, I NEVER saw it as Michaels just being straight up better on the mat than Angle for the match, story wise. I took it as Angle being so over zealous to prove his superiority to Michaels that he kept making simple mistakes that Shawn would capitalize on. It's not like Shawn was doing any crazy counters or sweet holds he was just catching Kurt with basic shit like the short arm scissors because Kurt wasn't affording Michaels the proper respect on the mat. He was trying to dominate him and in the process he kept fucking up the fundamentals. I mean I could be 100% wrong but that's just how I saw it. The story was Angle trying trying to prove he is better than Michaels in all aspects of wrestling, beating Jannetty and all that other jazz. So when the time for the match comes, Angle makes mistakes early on that cost him. Finally he settles in an ends up beating Michaels by making him tap in the center of the ring.
> 
> Generally, whenever someone other than a mat pro like Lesnar or Benoit would get the advantage on the mat over Kurt, I saw it story wise the same way: Kurt being over zealous trying to show his superiority and in the process being sloppy with his fundamentals.


Weak cop out on my end. Match had no damn clue on what it wanted to be. So they traded random bits of holds from "their background", yet Michaels still out-wrestles Kurt during that portion. Umm. There's a disconnect.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I prefer to compare Angle to Iverson.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

unk2 and :jpl from NoC was really good until all the clusterfuckery at the end. Sure unk6 lost at a lame attempt to derail his momentum. Nice work brain trust. :vince$ :hhh2



Super Sonic said:


> I prefer to compare Angle to Iverson.


Are we talking about practice? :angle2 

Angle in his prime was incredible.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Regarding the podcast convo a few pages back, here's a funny clip from Jericho's podcast. Jericho is talking with Bully Ray about a funny Rock incident backstage:






The part where they talk about Rock saying that he would _have_ to hit Stacy Keibler, really made me lol, because I could totally see Rock saying that, and thinking that way.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Bubba has some of that wrong. La Resistance didn't debut until 2003, they're talking about the night after No Mercy 2001.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

ANGLE IS THE GOAT.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

****3/4* for Usos/Wyatt's tag. That was pretty damn good, they put on a tag team basics clinic. Surprised Usos got the W but I guess they are holding off on giving the Wyatt's their much deserved title reign.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, The Usos have won their first ever PPV match.

@cjack. First podcast I checked out was the Jericho episode with Chavo. Really struck a nerve, and not in the form of anger. Great episode, and to think that there are still probably millions of Eddie stories left to tell. Unfortunately, I can't listen to podcasts during my office job like you. Especially since my supervisor is probably furious over Mexico losing today.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Usos/Wyatts (Y)

Luke fuckin Harper :mark:


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I actually watched Wyatts/Usos live. The Usos are so lame, but they're decent in the ring; the Wyatts are so good. 

***3/4


Oh fuck, the hoes are next, I just lost the will for watching. YouTube, La Parka, here I come.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Dean is so awesome. What a great little promo. "Face? Or case? FACE? Or case?"

Usos are indeed lame but man how badass are Harper and Rowan? Both guys just rule on so many levels. Rowan has gotten SO much better since debuting, to the point that he adds as much to the matches as his more acclaimed partner. Harper is still the head honcho, but Rowan has gone from being a weak link to a strong contributor.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Paige/Naomi match was so bad :lmao


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

It was a good divas match, surprisingly good actually


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I couldnt stand the yelling 

Paige screaming when locking in a submission legit made me cringe :jay


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The stupid WWE Network stream on Xbox kept cutting out so I missed portions of Usos/Wyatts but damn it was awesome from what I saw and the crowd was HOT. 

Stemming from Bryan's announcement on the preshow I'm willing to put all my money on Cena winning tonight.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The network stream has been in and out tonight.

Usos/Wyatts was awesome, divas match was surprisingly good considering I didn't give a fuck about it and Rose/Sandow was, well, just that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Really? I've been streaming on my laptop since WM and I've NEVER had mine go out during a live stream. Worst thing that's happened to me is this 10 second freeze that will happen every once in a while when I'm watching old footage, but that's like once every week at the most.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That's exactly it. It's completely fine on a laptop. Switch to an Xbox and the shit cuts out every 10 minutes during a live PPV.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

PS3/Xbox stream is MUCH less reliable, the laptop stream is the best for consistency tbh 

Kofi :ti


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

***3/4 for the Briefcase MitB match. That started out pretty dull and slow but man the last 7-8 minutes were epic. How about that pop for Ambrose? Dude is really over right now, I never would have imagined he'd be such a great face but man he's so damn good, I was cheering him all the way.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

****1/4 for that match, was fucking awesome and legit had me on the edge of my seat for a few moments


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy motherfucker that was the best MITB Ladder match since the original! Amazing storylines throughout, the crowd was MOLTEN, the spots were nuts! They just made a star outta Dean Ambrose!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The combination of Ambrose, Rollins, and Ziggler keep killing it every day and night. Gotta give Swagger credit too for looking like a monster out there. And RVD and Kofi...well they didn't ruin the match that much. ******. Perfect choice for winner too.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm streaming on my laptop with the wire connected too. It still cuts in and out at different times.

Ambrose is absolute fucking money. I love it. ***3/4 for the MITB match.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I really enjoyed the contract match. Result was kind of obvious, but I didn't mind the ending.

Oh, and Ambrose is OVER.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That was probably the best MITB match ever outside of the original, I was amazed that Kofi and RVD managed to get one good spot in each. 

ME wont be nearly as good but hoping that Cesaro,Sheamus, and Cena can carry it


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Guess I'm the only one who didn't like that match. Thought it was mostly trash.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My girlfriend and I were going nuts for that shit. When Kofi was about to win I almost pissed myself. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Saint Dick said:


> Guess I'm the only one who didn't like that match. Thought it was mostly trash.


Naw. Either Cal or that other mod will join in to help ruin the fun.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

***1/2 for the MITB contract ladder match.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Some of the spots were crazy and the Rollins/Ambrose feud added a lot to it but too much contrived, choreographed, stupid shit for my liking.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Loved everything about that match. Even the ending. Drew massive heat. 

***3/4


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Big E & Rusev just went out and killed themselves and even played off of spots/sequences from their last match. Can't go wrong with that. (Y) Didn't care about Dust Bros vs. Rybaxel though.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Some of the spots were crazy and the Rollins/Ambrose feud added a lot to it but too much contrived, choreographed, stupid shit for my liking.



I mean, that's a given. We aren't gonna get a MitB match that feels organic and real like WM 21 again. That's just not how WWE does business anymore. Their big gimmick matches are all highly choreographed spectacles. I've learned to just accept it, and as a result I really enjoyed the briefcase ladder match. Wasn't GREAT or anything, but it was very good and I was really caught up in who was gonna win by the end. If the first 10 minutes hadn't been so dull/mediocre it might have turned out great.

Rusev/Big E was good for what it was. I just realized that every match on this card has had a storyline leading into it, excepting only that ridiculous Adam Rose match which I'm choosing to pretend never happened. Even if they storylines are mostly basic and worn out, it's sit ill Good progress WWE, baby steps.

Ratings so far:


Usos/Wyatt's: ***3/4
Paige/Naomi: *
Briefcase MitB match: ***3/4
Dust Bros/Rybaxel: **1/2
Big E/Rusev: **3/4


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

itt I learn that a ****3/4 match isn't "great or anything". ok then.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Gambling sites have Kane 9x more likely to win MitB than Cena. I guess we know that Rollins is leaving the ppv as champ.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I mean, that's a given. We aren't gonna get a MitB match that feels organic and real like WM 21 again. That's just not how WWE does business anymore. Their big gimmick matches are all highly choreographed spectacles. I've learned to just accept it, and as a result I really enjoyed the briefcase ladder match. Wasn't GREAT or anything, but it was very good and I was really caught up in who was gonna win by the end. If the first 10 minutes hadn't been so dull/mediocre it might have turned out great.
> 
> Rusev/Big E was good for what it was. I just realized that every match on this card has had a storyline leading into it, excepting only that ridiculous Adam Rose match which I'm choosing to pretend never happened. Even if they storylines are mostly basic and worn out, it's sit ill Good progress WWE, baby steps.
> 
> ...





StuckInHell4-Life said:


> itt I learn that a ****3/4 match isn't "great or anything". ok then.


I get what he's Rabid's saying it's like the Outsideer vs Team WCW match at BatB 96 it's great for what it is and that is a MiTB match. The match didnt have much wrong for a MiTB match so it gets a ****3/4
EDIT: He changed the rating lol


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

AwesomeBatman101 said:


> EDIT: He changed the rating lol


That makes more sense.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

OMG this is terrible so far :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God bless Sheamus for carrying seven other men to a watchable match. I think this man might be the best gimmick match wrestler today.

EDIT: Ok what the hell was that? And why did Cena help his two opponents by putting the ladder back in place?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I marked out for HHH marking out for that RKO.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

what an anticlimatic finish, two AAs and that's it


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Well, that sucked.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Saint Dick said:


> I marked out for Steph jumping up and down for that RKO.


fyp all hail the big fake tits :bow


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That was the first ever bad Money in the Bank match. Well, technically it isn't a MITB match, so the streak still lives.

Wyatt Family vs. Usos: ****3/4*
Paige vs. Naomi: ***1/4*
Adam Rose vs. Damien Sandow: ***
Money in the Bank Ladder Match: ******
Dust Bros vs. Rybaxel: ***3/4*
Big E vs. Rusev: ***3/4*
Layla vs. Summer Rae: *Went to go break my fast*
WWEWHC Ladder Match: ****


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watch out for Cena vs. Orton volume 35 at Battleground next month! :lol


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Usos (c) vs. Luke Harper & Erick Rowan: ***1/2
Paige (c) vs. Naomi: **
Adam Rose vs. Damien Sandow: *1/2
Money in the Bank Ladder match: ***3/4
Goldust & Stardust vs. RybAxel: **
Big E vs. Rusev: **
Summer Rae vs. Layla: 1/2*
WWE World Title Ladder match: **1/4


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

* for the WWEWHC match, that was just BAD. Sheamus and Cesaro were alright but the match was HORRIBLE because of 8 big men in a fucking ladder match. That was my fear and it became a reality. ugh just terrible, worst MITB match ever imo.

Full ratings 

Wyatts/Usos: ***3/4 
Layla/Naomi: *
MITB: ****1/4 
Rusev/Big E: **1/2
Rybaxel/Rhodes: **1/2 
Layla/Summer: N/A
WWEWHC: *


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Some stuff in that main event didn't make sense like the whole "stick another ladder into the large one just to tip it for a minute" but overall, it was a fun match that was chaotic and delivered with everybody getting to shine. But then again, maybe I was just marking out for a bloody Randy Orton. 

Predictable, anticlimactic finish aside (which we all knew was coming), I enjoyed the main event as well as the MITB match. Didn't see anything else but this pretty much confirms it for me. Other than watching SummerSlam, I'll likely just take a break until next year's Road to Wrestlemania. I don't know what's happened but I'm in a complete slump when it comes to wrestling.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Usos/Wyatts MOTN. Big E/Rusev was good too. I'll probably give the first ladder match a second chance tomorrow.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

At least last year's All Star MITB match had guys like Christian, Punk and Bryan to fly around and shit. This one was just 8 bigger guys who already have their spot and don't need to do shit. Cesaro and Sheamus were, not surprisingly, in the best spot of the entire match and even that spot didn't make no sense. What was the point of tipping the ladder over just to tip it back upright?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

RatedR10 said:


> What was the point of tipping the ladder over just to tip it back upright?


Who knows? At one point the ladder was under the belts but somebody had to bring it closer to the turnbuckle and turn it diagonal so that Reigns could spear him. Reigns then set the ladder back under the belts. logic. there is none.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So Cena's champion again...sigh. I see some people are saying that it's just a transitional reign but that's what diminishes his reigns. It's like they're giving him as much championship reigns as possible so that he can surpass Flair to say "Fuck! Cena's the GOAT!"


Anyway, this was a decent show overall. 

Usos vs Wyatts ****1/2 *
Goldust and Stardust vs Rybaxel ***3/4*
Big E vs Rusev *****
MITB ****3/4*
Main event ***1/2*

My rating for the main event isn't because LOLCENAWINS, it's because it just wasn't a good match apart from a few awesome moments here and there like Reigns going HAM.


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

Wow. Nobody did anything in the ladder match.

Might as well not even been a ladder match.

Anyway. Taking a break from pro graps for awhile. Nothing going on in the product. Theres no actual story lines happening anymore.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Main event was AWFUL. Definitely the worst MITB match ever.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

AwesomeBatman101 said:


> Holy crap Macho Man vs. Liger :mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark::mark:
> Two of my favourites. Posted if anyone else wants to watch this dream match


:bow
I gotta see this.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Usos/Wyatt's - ****
Paige/Naomi - *
Rose/Sandow - *
MITB - **** 1/4
Big E/Russev - ***
Rhodes/Rybaxel - **
Summer/Layla - DUD
WWEWHC - ***


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I should have stopped watching after the first ladder match. 

You know your ending is bad whenI was sitting with my brother and we were doing fake announcer voices saying things, "Orton and Kane working together! Only one man can overcome this and his name is.... [cue my brother humming Cena's music] JOHN CENA!" 10 seconds later Cena enters the ring beats everyone and wins.


----------



## AwesomeBatman101 (Feb 24, 2014)

King Kai Guy said:


> :bow
> I gotta see this.


Before you watch I wanna say that Macho Man had a knee injury coming into the match so if might not be too amazing but still heaps of fun gave it ***


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

So glad the network is around now. That PPV sucked, and I would have felt awful spending big money on that.

Only thing they did that was unpredictable was having Kane _not_ screw Orton.

Awful. This company is incapable of moving forward.

I have the sinking feeling that they're gonna turn Rollins impotent, just like they did Randy when he became H's lapdog. 

I don't think they did _anyone_ any favors tonight, other than continuing to give the Authority the biggest spotlight, no matter who's champion.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Oh they must definitely did Ambrose some favors tonight. Made him a megastar.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Oh they must definitely did Ambrose some favors tonight. Made him a megastar.


Eh, he was getting the same pop when he came in there.

I'll go full Tyrion Lannister and say that they're not really doing anything for him if they're not letting him win. He's already been very over. His face-offs with Seth should have been much more heated. 

They didn't move him forward much at all, IMO. It's his own mic skills that are getting him over. His promo was one of the highlights of the night, and I'm not even kidding. At least they're seeing that skill and giving him the mic more, so I do give them credit for that.

I will say that I didn't actively hate the MITB matches or anything, so in that regard, there have been far worse PPVs. Just never really felt climatic at all, during a PPV that absolutely should have felt climatic. Only a few moments in the World Title MITB match made me feel that way.

And there was sooooooo much filler. Ugh. That Adam Rose/Sandow match just about killed me. Rose doesn't even bother me, but at least use him in an entertaining way. Have him interrupt real stars, and see how they'd react, rather than putting him with other jobbers doing painful gimmicks as well.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Just watched the MITB contract match during the replay, and it was still awesome. Seth bumped his ass off, Ambrose was OVER, and everyone shined, even Kofi 

Oh, and :lmao at that main event. Jesus Christ.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Usos vs Wyatts ***1/2 (MOTN)
Goldust and Stardust vs Rybaxel **1/2
Big E vs Rusev ***1/4
MITB ***1/2
Main event ***
Paige/Naiomi- *1/2
Sandow/Rose- **
Summer/Layla- DUD

I didn't think the main event was that bad. Certainly beats last year's main event, although that's not saying much. Rusev/Big E surprised me, might be Big E's best match yet (and Rusev's from the few matches of his I've seen). Sandow/Rose was better than it had any right being, although fuck Rose kicking out of Sandow's finisher. Sandow should've beaten Rose right then and there... not like Adam Rose is going up the card anyway. Opener was GREAT, really great, my MOTN as it just edges out the MITB Contract Ladder match. Stardust/Goldust against Rybaxel was fun as well. The divas matches sucked. Overall, a pretty decent PPV.

And while I didn't expect him to win, no Barrett sucked. Hoping it's still not that serious, and they just didn't want to risk him competing in this type of match, and that he'll only have to be out a few weeks tops.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

2013's main event >>>>> tonight's main event :side:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

PGSucks said:


> 2013's main event >>>>> tonight's main event :side:


Only thing 2013's event had were better participants and a better winner... which makes it all the more disappointing.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm not a HUGE fan of the all-stars match, but the fact that it had Bryan going crazy and a few pretty good spots easily puts it above tonight's main event IMO.

And assuming WWE don't blow their load on Rollins vs. Ambrose before SummerSlam, that and the inevitable Bork/Cena title match are pretty much all there is to look forward to for SummerSlam. If (or when) HHH vs. Reigns happens, it will probably be overbooked to hell, and I'm not sure what the hell Cesaro, Sheamus, and Wyatt will be doing by then.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Saint Dick said:
> 
> 
> > Guess I'm the only one who didn't like that match. Thought it was mostly trash.
> ...



The original MitB sucked.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Uso's-Wyatt's ***1/2
Paige-Naomi *
Sandow-Rose DUD
MITB ****
Dusts-Rybaxel *1/2
Big E-Rusev **
Layla-Summer Rae 1/4*
Main event ***1/2


----------



## Brandenthesmark (Mar 19, 2010)

Usos/Wyatt's - ****
Paige/Naomi - **1/2
Rose/Sandow - *
MITB - **** 1/4
Big E/Russev - ***
Rhodes/Rybaxel - **
Summer/Layla - DUD
WWEWHC - ***1/2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_El Samurai vs. Koji Kanemoto (New Japan 6/5/97 - TOSJ '97 Finals)_

Contains a disgusting reverse top-rope frankensteiner and so many stupendious moves. So fucking good. WATCH THIS NOW!!!


----------



## Nostalgia (Dec 20, 2011)

Didn't even watch MITB and just looked at the results this morning and I'm glad I didn't. :lmao 

Card looks bad. Usos/Wyatts for the millionth time, this time with the Tag Titles on the line, and they still don't give The Wyatts the belts. :lmao Garbage filler like Adam Rose. Seth Rollins winning MITB = no fucks given from me. Real shame Barrett wasn't in the match but I doubt he would of won anyway. And LOLCENAWINS in the main event. :lmao 

I never thought my wrestling interest would get so low to the point where I'm not watching a PPV anymore. For some time now I haven't been watching much of the weekly shows, but always manage to catch a PPV, but not this time. The product is total garbage.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Maybe I'm alone but I didn't think the main event was THAT bad. I had fun watching it. And it was cool seeing Orton wear "the crimson mask" by the end of the match. That RKO he hit on Cesaro was so slick too. And Reigns just wrecking people for 2 minutes straight was the highlight of the match for me.

Final ratings:

Usos/Wyatt's: ***3/4 (MotN)
Paige/Naomi: *
Briefcase MitB: ***3/4
Rhodes Bros/Rybaxel: **
Big E/Rusev: ***
WWEWHC MitB: ***


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

- Usos/Wyatts: ***3/4
- Paige/Naomi: *3/4
- Sandow/Rose: *
- Briefcase MITB: ***3/4
- Dusts/Rybaxel: **1/4
- Big E/Rusev: **3/4
- Layla/Summer: DUD
- WWE WHC MITB: **1/4

Usos/Wyatts was every bit as good, if not better, than last year's Shield/Usos. But the Briefcase MITB was definitely MOTN and I'm undecided between ***3/4 and **** for it. Everything Ambrose and Rollins in the MITB (outside of the anticlimatic finish) was gold, Ziggler and Swagger both put on some great showings too, there were some insane spots and great storytelling. And once again, Big E/Rusev surprised and had a pretty good big man match that built very, very nicely off spots from their last match.

Everything else was bleh though. Paige/Naomi was a slopfest, Sandow/Rose... fpalm at how they're using Sandow, Dusts/Rybaxel was average but I liked their Payback match better, Layla/Summer was fucking horrible and the Main Event couldn't have been more anticlimatic and stupid, even if it was fun to watch but that's all I'm giving it. Last year's Main Event was UNIVERSES better.

Up there with Payback as the worst PPV of the year so far. And the first not good MITB PPV yet.

EDIT: Finally decided to go ***3/4 for it, and up Usos/Wyatts too in the process


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Skipped everything bar the ladder matches. Didn't care for either outside of a couple of spots.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yet another world class review by Cal


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Cena champ night potentially spurring Cena/Rusev which means an empowered Cena accent, probably no Brock for 3 weeks Kane unnfortunately right in the immediate mix, no dance partner for Bray, no Bryan probably no Barrett probably have to see Cesaro/Sheamus (albeit have put on solid matches)or Sheamus ADR yet again, potentially more Orton/Reigns, not even counting whatever filler bs we must endure... I know Raws have been lagging but man aside from Ambrosse/Rollins progression tonight will probably be an absolute chore.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yet another world class review by Cal


Only the best from me!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

So who saw the Cena win coming? :side:

Still not convinced he will drop the belt to Brock, clean TBH.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Usos/Wyatt had a good finishing stretch. The MITB was incredible on first watch. Main event was a DUD.

What else was there?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rewatched the first hour or so on the replay last night. Wanted to watch the MITB contract match but was far too tired. 

Usos vs. Wyatts - *** 3/4 

Paige vs. Naomi - ** 1/4 (once you get past them falling off the top ropes, it's actually pretty decent. Naomi looked good and Paige debuted a new move... maybe?  I still don't think I was paying that much attention at the beginning though so maybe I missed something.)

Adam Rose HAS to be gay. Like what the fuck is he doing in the ring half the time? Not a bad match at all but absolutely doesn't need to be on PPV. "The elbow is coming, the elbow is coming!" :lol How bout that pop Sandow got at the end of the match???

I'm eventually gonna get around to rewatching the contract match and if it falls under **** 1/4 I'm gonna be shocked. Legit thought it was the best one since Mania 21.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So, report of the situation... Cena is the WWE WHC AGAIN, Bryan isn't back anytime soon, Barrett isn't back anytime soon, we'll probably see Cena vs Authority for the millionth time, some other favorites of mine (Henry, Ziggler and Sandow) are total jobbers and the Wyatts and Cesaro's respective momentums are almost totally drained.

In another words, Rollins and Ambrose, especially Ambrose, are the only things worth tuning for right now. Could we PLEASE go back to 2005? When Eddie, Benoit, HBK, Edge, Benjamin, Flair and all those guys were still around?  (That was a cue to you, Cal :side


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena as champ _could_ still give us something good. Triple H could go the route of saying Orton & Kane couldn't get the job done so he ends up giving the next title shot to Cesaro, which eventually leads to Brock's return. Maybe? For the love of god it CANNOT be another Cena vs. Orton or Cena vs. Demon Kane. Del Rio has no chance of stepping in, they better not fucking do Cena vs. Wyatt again, and Sheamus has the US Title. Cesaro please! Or somehow Rollins please! Then I'll be ok with it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2005? I'm a little busy with some stuff from a few years earlier than that atm .

I shall return to my 05 PPV Rambles next week or so probably. Maybe. I dunno. They'll happen. Eventually. Occasionally. Emotionally. Wait that's not right. SHUT UP.

Eddie Vs Rey - ****34/67


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

> 2 minutes into this match and FLAIR is bleeding


:lmao Isn't there a PPV (or Raw) where Flair does a run in and blades too lol. (Could have been a HBK/HHH match)


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

MITB 2014

MITB match-****1/4
WHC match-***1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Not to knock you (or your opinion) down or anything, but regarding the WWE WHC match, I think you and I may have seen different matches, dude. Why ***1/2 for that, in my view, average at best match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Which is the 'best' Benoit/Eddie match from WWE, Vengeance?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

ATF bout go HAM on that "HBK/Taker is insanely overrated" thread. Especially now that the guy mentioned Benoit/Angle as a better match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I didn't exactly 'go HAM' as much as I simply ripped him a justification as to why what he called a finisher fest worked and is being, well NOT overrated, but rather exactly rated the way it deserves to, imho. Benoit/Angle was the least of all problems 

And tbh, I can see why the human brain would think a match wrestled that way (SUBMISSION COUNTERZ~) beats Taker/Shawn. But DEFINITELY not mine.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Which is the 'best' Benoit/Eddie match from WWE, Vengeance?


Yep (unless you are some muppet who doesn't think the match is very good :side, but there is also a SD match in 05 during the Eddie/Rey feud that is fucking SPECTACULAR and should be watched by everyone.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Yep (unless you are some muppet who doesn't think the match is very good :side, but there is also a SD match in 05 during the Eddie/Rey feud that is fucking SPECTACULAR and should be watched by everyone.


Thanks Cal, yeah love the match, just wondered if there were any more in the 'E. 

Found the SD match, ill have to grab it later:

xp848e


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

JR talking to Ronda Rousey today for his podcast. Interview gonna be out on Tuesday. Gonna have to give that one a listen.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Russo Part 2 on Austin's tomorrow i think, ill grab that.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Got a new post up on my blog, my money in the bank 2014 review

http://prowrestlingpalace.blogspot.com/ 

Doing a project atm to rank all the Summerslam shows, I'll have like a paragraph or so written for every one.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Can we have a paragraph on each match that's five sentences or longer?


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> Skipped everything bar the ladder matches. Didn't care for either outside of a couple of spots.




Watch Usos/Wyatts though. You'll like that. Harper was a fucking monster.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Can we have a paragraph on each match that's five sentences or longer?


Sure, go ahead.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Can we have a paragraph on each match that's five sentences or longer?


For every match for every show? 

I dont have time for that


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

How about the matches you deem over 4 stars?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

That might be more realistic, I think I'm going to rank all the shows with one paragraph for each show, and make a separate post writing about my top 10-15 SS matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, put some effort into it ya lazy fuck .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Its hard to live up to your GOAT one sentence reviews


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I rewatched both Ladder matches and Usos/Wyatts (the only matches that mattered, anyway). 

The latter is fucking awesome, mostly thanks to how much of a beast Harper was, but Rowan did look good too, and the Usos, to their credit, did do their shit without going stupid and sticking to the tag team basics really well. Last year, Shield/Usos was fucking phenomenal. This year, it was even better. God bless dat Luke Harper more than anyone.

The MITB went up on rewatch, from ***3/4 to ****. Jesus fucking Christ what a match, easily one of the best MITB matches ever. Those last 8 minutes, from Rollins' crash "through" the ladder to the (admitedly anticlmatic but still storytelling-wise amazing) ending, were just :mark:. Ambrose's return and near win, especially. And everything before didn't hurt at all either. Some of the bits were contrived and even dull (Kofi getting his shit in :lol - dat crossbody off the ropes tho), but they were always with action. And as far as storytelling is concerned, this is arguably up there with SD 2011. Wow. Shame there was no Barrett though - would've only made the match better 

The WWE WHC match... not so much. It's still pretty much a downer from start to finish. It has its moments (Reigns going ham, Orton covered in blood) and it doesn't feel too boring and dull, but it's just uninspired from the get-go. And Cena winning, even though that was totally expected? LOL.

Top 5 MITB matches btw:
1 - WrestleMania 21 (****1/2)
2 - WHC Contract 2011 (****1/2)
3 - WHC Contract 2013 (****1/4)
4 - 2014 (****)
5 - WHC Contract 2010 (****)


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

"Play by play" cal talking about effort.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I do play by play? 

I RAMBLE. I just randomly say shit. Sometimes its what's happening. Sometimes it's me bitching about something. Sometimes it has nothing to do with anything that's going on .


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> "Play by play" cal talking about effort.












If you wanna see play by play, READ THIS 

http://www.wrestlingdvdnews.com/review-wwe-summerslam-2008-dvd/5747/


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> I do play by play?
> 
> I RAMBLE. I just randomly say shit. Sometimes its what's happening. Sometimes it's me bitching about something. Sometimes it has nothing to do with anything that's going on .


I'm sorry.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

ATF said:


> Not to knock you (or your opinion) down or anything, but regarding the WWE WHC match, I think you and I may have seen different matches, dude. Why ***1/2 for that, in my view, average at best match?


I'd argue that there's far more overrating going on of the MITB match. The WHC match was at least more suspenseful for me, personally. The MITB felt way more choreographed, IMO. 

The MITB match had more people that I enjoy, and more exciting performers generally, so it really shouldn't have left me with the feeling that it lacked heart, but it did. They could have teased moments like Ziggler winning a little bit more.

Maybe part of it was that I never bought for a second that Ambrose would win, so that edge of the seat quality that others may have experienced, didn't exist for me.

The most believable near win situation was Kofi.....if you were able to suspend belief enough to believe that he would ever win in the first place. Which obviously, I couldn't.

Sucks that Barrett was out. I'm thinking that maybe those type of situations were designed for him. If so, that would have been much more believable.




The Fab Four said:


> :lmao Isn't there a PPV (or Raw) where Flair does a run in and blades too lol. (Could have been a HBK/HHH match)


He bladed during the Edge/Lita live sex celebration, which may have been the most unnecessary blading I've ever seen in my life.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

LilOlMe said:


> I'd argue that there's far more overrating going on of the MITB match. *The WHC match was at least more suspenseful for me, personally.* The MITB felt way more choreographed, IMO.


Really? I was expecting Cena to win the second they announced the match was for the title.

And my main problem was that 90% of the match was structured around KANE. fpalm


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

So my buddy just said Bret vs Shawn WM 12 was a great match. Why do you all hate it? I want him to see this lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

xdoomsayerx said:


> So my buddy just said Bret vs Shawn WM 12 was a great match. Why do you all hate it? I want him to see this lol.


I wouldn't say your buddy is flat wrong, if that's his opinion then so be it. You wouldn't believe the amount of times I've heard other GREAT pro wrestlers mention in passing that it is one of their favorite matches. I've heard Steve Austin, Edge, Mick Foley, Dolph Ziggler, Chris Jericho, and William Regal all put that WM 12 Ironman over as one of their all time favorites. Who am I to say they are wrong?

That said, the reason I personally don't like it is, it doesn't pass the first and most important test for any pro wrestling match: that is, it's not fun for me to watch. It seems like they trade basic headlocks and submissions for the first 30 minutes or so, it's just really tough to sit through. Outside of a few minutes of fast paced action in the first 50 minutes, and the last 10-12 minutes, it's just really really dull. Where is the intensity? What is the story? Another thing that bothers me is that neither guy really WORKS the holds they use. I have no problem with submission wrestling. Hell, I LOVE the Regal/Sting GAB 1996 match and that is essentially all William Regal working holds in the most awesome way. But when a guy just grabs say a headlock, and just sits there with a blank expression on his face, and the guy in the hold just lays there without showing any desperation or that he's in pain....why should I care? That happens non stop in that WM 12 match, just Shawn or Bret grabbing a hold and the other guy laying in it taking a cat nap. 

Now, if your friend loves that WM 12 match, I'd LOVE to see what he thinks of the Brock/Angle Ironman match from Smackdown. That match is the complete opposite of WM 12 in that it's just non stop fun to watch. Brock is just such a phenomenal heel, he makes everything more interesting. That's also what works against WM 12, it was just a pure face vs face contest with no heat. Personally a good face vs heel match will ALWAYS trump a good face vs face match for me. Seeing heels be no good bastards and have a good face performance with a guy fighting from underneath is what I love most about wrestling.

That's pretty much it. You should ask your friend to watch the Brock vs Angle Ironman and Steamboat vs Rude Ironman from Beach Blast 1992 and see what he thinks. Those two matches are unequivocally great in my opinion, Steamboat/Rude in particular I think is one of the 10 greatest matches of all time.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Rob Van Dam just mixed in more psychology (move sense/strategic definition) then quite frankly I've seen him use in well his entire wwe run.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I can't believe I'm saying this but this first hour of RAW has been FANTASTIC. The 4-way is the best thing they could've done with the belt outside of Cena vs. Cesaro. Hopefully Kane doesn't stink up the joint too much. Rollins vs. RVD had some seriously awesome moments and both promos after the match from Rollins & Ambrose were wonderful.

Then what do we get??? A BRILLIANT face turn!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Which is the 'best' Benoit/Eddie match from WWE, Vengeance?


oh goodness of course not.



#ROOT said:


> Yep (unless you are some muppet who doesn't think the match is very good :side, but there is also a SD match in 05 during the Eddie/Rey feud that is fucking SPECTACULAR and should be watched by everyone.


8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I can never get tired of The Wyatt Family or The Usos. And Sheamus being Sheamus. Outside of the beginning segment, very strong RAW. Midcard is killing it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lmao

Sandow just trolled the universe.


----------



## Fo11ower91 (Apr 25, 2014)

is this the surprise return????


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

If it's the Miz, it is.


----------



## Fo11ower91 (Apr 25, 2014)

oh thank God it wasn' Khali as the surprise return.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Think i'm going to watch every damn Lesnar match I can find and rate them as a nice little project. Here's the first match.

Brock Lesnar vs. Jeff Hardy - Backlash 2002

Lita :mark: and Jeff out first and then, Brock with some decent theme. 

Jeff tries to jump Brock getting in the ring but that doesn't work after Brock spears the shit out of him. Back and forth for a minute or two until Brock gets the advantage and throws Jeff around like a kid for a few minutes. Jeff gets an advantage when Brock gets distracted by Lita. Swanton bomb for a 2! Jeff out to get a chair because he knows he's going to die if he doesn't kill Brock first. Chair doesn't come into play and Brock fucks Hardy up with an F-5. Heyman screaming "Brock don't pin him!!! Hurt him!!!" :mark:. Brock hits two powerbombs and Hardy's still with us but then Brock does a spinning powerbomb that is just about the most brutal powerbomb you'll ever see. Your referee, Teddy Long, playa, calls for the bell. It was all your fault Lita!

***1/4

Don't see the elusive quadruple post too often here. Congrats, Follower.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

RAW was glorious tonight. Every segment had a purpose and every segment except for the John Cena/Triple H/Stephanie McMahon promo was great. Lots of nice surprises and lots of new material.

RVD vs. Seth Rollins: *****
Wyatt Family vs. Usos/Sheamus: ****1/2*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Flabbergasted by the lack of RAW talk in here tonight. Hell of an episode!


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Swagger/Rusev feud incomming, this nice budding feud between Rollins/Mox, Bo Dallas actually providing imo solid comedy albeit humor is subjective, Sheamus giving his all between the ropes, if handled as a proper glitz vs simplicity feud an impending classic in Y2J/Wyatts. Some potentially real nice supplement that if stretched until Brock comes could combine for a damn nice overall product and as is a potentially killer midcard.

As for Y2J/Wyatt, whenever he faces Harper in the natural progression, I really hope that match gets time. One of Jericho's main attributes is matching versatility with other versatile workers and he can sell physicality well. Should be money.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jericho took that Wyatt beat down like a fucking champ. He's not a guy that's scared of bumping or anything but he was selling everything awesomely and his flailing punches while trying to fight back made it look like a legit mugging. Probably made Bray's shitty finisher look more dangerous than anyone else I've seen, as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Another injury to another champion who appeared to be one of the few guys in the company looking worth a damn. These guys already don't know what they're doing & all of this keeps happening to aid in the misery. 

Yikes.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Absolutely nobody from last night's ladder matches should've been working on Raw. NONE.

On the other hand, Rollins and RVD had a great psychological game going after each other's injuries from their MITB match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Think i'm going to watch every damn Lesnar match I can find and rate them as a nice little project. Here's the first match.
> 
> Brock Lesnar vs. Jeff Hardy - Backlash 2002
> 
> ...


Did my own Lesnar project some months ago, using a custom comp i have. Every match/segment in order :mark:. Great times, hidden gems in there too like his Raw match against Bubba Ray, glorious.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So Raw has some awesome shit:

BARRETT IS INJURED!!! YES! YES! YES! YES! IC TITLE VACANT! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Miz returned... boo. JERICHO RETURNED AND GAVE HIM THE CODEBREAKER! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Jericho returned. That's kinda ok. WYATT FAMILY DESTROYED HIM! YES! YES! YES! YES!

Ambrose and Rollins feud turned up a notch :mark:. Kane seemingly not involved beyond being associated with the Authority! Yes! Yes! Yes!

SWAGGER TURNED ALL AMERICAN FACE AGAINST RUSEV! Cool .

AJ LEE RETURNED! YES! YES! YES! YES! NEW DIVAS CHAMPION! YES! YES! YES! YES!

And COMMUNITY is being brought back from the dead! YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal actually caring about something Diva related.

WHO ARE YOU?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Lee returned and won the belt? Lotta things in the running for most pointless booking decisions this year.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## BrockTheOne (Apr 9, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> So Raw has some awesome shit:
> 
> BARRETT IS INJURED!!! YES! YES! YES! YES! IC TITLE VACANT! YES! YES! YES! YES!
> 
> ...


How the fuck is BNB being injured a YES!?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BrockTheOne said:


> How the fuck is BNB being injured a YES!?


Because he's awful and now he won't be on TV for a while .

Sucks for him personally being injured, but as a fan it's a HUGE YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Lee returned and won the belt? Lotta things in the running for most pointless booking decisions this year.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


WWE listening to internet message boards by trying out some more hot-shotting, b/c they think it may be the answer to their problems before they continue to turn up via more injuries. Ahead of the curve, this company.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

AJ winning the belt back was stupid and awesome at the same time .

Awesome because, you know, AJ~!

Stupid because, you know, Paige.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No idea what you're driving at.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's because you're a moron.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's lonely at the bottom.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

this Raw may have genuinely been the first time I heard Paige's voice, and I didn't expect it to sound like that.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Was plugged a page or two back & part of me feels lucky to find it as it happens to be largely vague. Excited. Apparently they had a match in early '01 too which I think was a lead in for NWO or post-WM & heading towards WM. Awesome. Maybe I can find an answer for what my favorite/choice for best Benoit vs Eddie WWF/WWE match is. Off the top of my head I knew it wasn't Vengeance or ONS & would just be Armageddon '02 via best memory. What a way to choose. 8*D

Also doesn't help when I feel their best match was from Japan or their first match on Nitro in '95. But ahh, look who is involved. These two had to have some great matches while together in their final company. Hopefully.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Rah said:


> Lee returned and won the belt? Lotta things in the running for most pointless booking decisions this year.


And it wasn't this. 

Paige winning the belt in the first place was.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Don't think i've seen the Benoit/Eddie (Armageddon 2002) match, ill ad that to my list. 

Chris Benoit vs Eddie Guerrero - Raw 03.12.2001, the other one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Because he's awful and now he won't be on TV for a while .
> 
> Sucks for him personally being injured, but as a fan it's a HUGE YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!


YOU are awful. :side:

But oh well. Lotta stuff happened on Raw. Jericho's back and is feuding with the Wyatts, AJ's back and won the title,... Miz's back too but who cares, Swagger turned face, Fatal 4-Way at Battleground (which doesn't sound too exciting but ANYTHING over Cena/Orton or Cena/Kane), the Seth/Dean feud continues as golden as it was, RVD actually had a good singles match that wasn't vs Barrett, there was another kick-ass 6-Man Tag and Ziggler now dates (I think) Summer.

Why can't all Raws be like this one?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fuck fuck fuck. My girlfriend came over last night and said "are we watching wrestling tonight? It's on Mondays right?" And my stupid ass said "No, it's been really shitty for a while I don't feel like sitting through more depressing crap" so we watched Django instead. Now I'm wholeheartedly regretting it because apparently Raw was awesome. Ugh. I can't win with this company.

Zeppers: definitely watched Benoit/Eddie Armageddon 2002 whenever you get a chance, that's a fucking fantastic match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

*Django Unchained* was actually the better choice, tbhayley.

except for the Swagger & Jericho parts. Those owned.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Erik. said:


> And it wasn't this.
> 
> Paige winning the belt in the first place was.


It's part of the same angle, though. Paige's booking is the second instance here. Sure, it's worse, but actively booking the end of AJ's lengthy reign with something as idiotic as Paige's run was laughable.

AJ winning it back makes the entire thing completely pointless.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh it's sad that the only good match during Paige's run that I can recall was the first one vs Alicia Fox on Raw, and that wasn't for the title. The PPV trilogy (vs Tamina, vs Alicia and vs Naomi) could've been worse and was OK'ish for current day WWE Divas standards, but for normal standards, bleh.

Still, AJ/Paige can be a nice match if given enough time. Though honestly I would've preferred the way things were shaping after ER (Paige as the face, AJ as the heel), which seems like it's the opposite the way it's going to be now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Talking about Benoit/Eddie. their first ever match:

*Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit (New Japan 06.12.1993) (Handheld)*



This is a hand held from the 1993 Top of the Super Juniors and may be the first singles match between these two. As awesome as you would expect, stiff, fast and highflying.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Kinda prefer it this way actually. Don't like the pointless title changes but I've always felt Paige can work better as a dominant heel than an underdog face. And with the size difference, she'll be able to rough up AJ and AJ can bump around and gain sympathy from the crowd.

The eventual Emma program would be refreshing with Paige as a heel as well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I guess her being bigger and more aggressive in the ring, compared to AJ's flashier style, Paige would work better with her as a heel.

Emma program though? It may sound inevitable sure, but Emma was doomed the moment they paired her with Santino. They completely fucked her up and now she's basically a comedy jobber paired with a comedy jobber. Unless they do a serious change, like they did with the Usos last year (in a matter of weeks, they went from jobbers to top contenders to the Shield), I don't see Emma having any credible shot. I hope she has, because I like her and I really enjoyed their Arrival match, even if it is kinda overrated by the masses, but I don't see it.

For a change now, how about we talk about how the WWE stupidly decided that they shouldn't do another tournament to declare the new IC Champion and instead have a BATTLE Royal at BATTLEground because BATTLE is in the fucking title. Yes, THAT is the fucking reason why. Or how very likely it is that Cesaro is winning the title.

Or we can talk about the depush that Vacant suffered, going from WWE WHC Champion to IC Champion in a day 8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Fuck fuck fuck. My girlfriend came over last night and said "are we watching wrestling tonight? It's on Mondays right?" And my stupid ass said "No, it's been really shitty for a while I don't feel like sitting through more depressing crap" so we watched Django instead. Now I'm wholeheartedly regretting it because apparently Raw was awesome. Ugh. I can't win with this company.
> 
> Zeppers: definitely watched Benoit/Eddie Armageddon 2002 whenever you get a chance, that's a fucking fantastic match.


Breh I went out and saw the new transformers movie last night instead of watching Raw, I think I win :side:

at least Django is a great film


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Breh I went out and saw the new transformers movie last night instead of watching Raw, I think I win :side:
> 
> at least Django is a great film


You might as well have watched a Naomichi Marufuji match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I watched the Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin Showdown in the Sun match from 2012 last night as part of my current project to watch all of Meltzer's 5-star matches and see how my ratings compare.

I have to say, if they had worked that match smarter, they would have had a hell of a great match on their hands. Not a 5-star match, but still great.

The problem is, they positively fell in love with false finishes for several stretches and it killed it. If they had cut out say 3-4 of those false finishes, and worked it in a more fluid manner instead of them just going back and forth hitting their big shit in the end, I would have really liked it. It just ruins matches for me when one guy hits a bunch of huge shit, false finish, then the guy who just got decimated pops up and hits a couple of ridiculous high spots, false finish. Rinse, and repeat. That was the last 10 minutes or so of this match, in a nutshell.

Like I said, if they had just been more intelligent about how they structured it, I would have thought it was genuinely great.

As it is, my final rating is ***3/4. Shame, missed opportunity.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In the context of what happened last night, does anyone recall that Jericho/Bray match on NXT?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Both ladder matches were shit. Wyatts/Usos is ***3/4, and that's about it. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> You might as well have watched a Naomichi Marufuji match.


Which Marufuji are you talking about? Faux heavyweight ot a spunky Junior? Because, I'm not gonna lie, I enjoyed the hell out of him until 2008 in NOAH (or at least the big majority), and his NJPW mini-run was very good. 

But yes, the current Marufuji is the worst.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I watched the Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin Showdown in the Sun match from 2012 last night as part of my current project to watch all of Meltzer's 5-star matches and see how my ratings compare.
> 
> I have to say, if they had worked that match smarter, they would have had a hell of a great match on their hands. Not a 5-star match, but still great.
> 
> ...


What else have you watched?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rewatched a gem from 2013 that deserves more attention in Dean Ambrose vs. CM Punk on the Slammy Edition of RAW.

Folks, please rewatch this and pay attention as both guys put in some great work here. Dual body work is established at the onset of the match with Punk saying "fuck you" to tradition and attacking Dean's right arm instead of his left, and Dean countering by attacking Punk's ribs that still feel the wear and tear of :reigns. Punk isn't an El Dandy of sorts, but he normally uses some nifty submissions whenever he works on a body part, and that is no exception here. Watch as Punk really "works" on Ambrose's arm after the armbar from the armdrag. The way Ambrose growls and screeches whenever someone puts a submission on him makes everything that much better. 

With Punk taking advantage at the onset, Ambrose had to find a way to turn the tide, and he did just that by reversing Punk's reverse crossbody into a gutbuster. Now Ambrose gloriously goes home with the work on the midsection. And I mean glorious; these punches and shoulder tackles among other moves are dirty and physical. Nothing pretty, just physical. What makes Ambrose's control segments as a heel so great though was how he would sprinkle in those old-school heel tactics that we rarely see into his offense, such as the eyerake on the rope that we see here. And to add on to that, what makes this segment of the match even better was how Ambrose is working on not just any wrestler, but one of the greatest ever at selling a midsection. Seriously, there was never a point where Punk forgot about his injured ribs. And if even THAT wasn't enough, these two take the action a step further with how Punk would always try to regain the advantage by focusing on Ambrose's right arm (which he too sells masterfully), while Ambrose would regain the advantage with a simple but effective knee to the stomach. 

Also look out for Ambrose ramming his right shoulder into the post to readjust it back in place. Some more small details to take note are how Ambrose mixes up the fashion that he pins Punk by taking a page from Finlay's book and refuses to hook the leg in favor of shoving a forearm into Punk's jaw. Or how Ambrose does one too many shoulder tackles into the post, which leads to Punk countering with a kick to the head or evading the tackle altogether, which leads to Ambrose holding on to his right arm. Or Punk attempting a GTS, but can't do it because of his ribs. Oh, and how about Punk looking around in caution once he is outside the ring because of The Shield. Oh, and what about when Ambrose has Punk in a grapevine sleeper hold, cinching on the ribs, which Punk reverses into a backdrop, which leads to a really cool visual where both guys are sitting up, but Ambrose is selling agony beautifully, while Punk is shaking his head around subtly trying to hype up the crowd. Man, there are just too many things to take note that it's best that you just watch the match. And now I just remembered the moment where Ambrose dodges a Punk dropkick which leads to Punk reinjuring his ribs, which then leads to Ambrose mocking Punk's rib injury.

Already ten minutes have passed and we still have really only gotten one high spot, which was Punk's suicide dive. And it's pretty impressive how they didn't lose a single thing by not having any of those spots until Punk's eventual comeback sequence. I love how instead of Punk having to mindlessly go through the motions in this comeback sequence, he has to first beat Dean Ambrose in a brawl. But Ambrose goes for one too many clotheslines, which is then reversed into a swinging neckbreaker. It really makes the payoff of Punk landing the elbow drop that much better, especially when Punk continues to remember that he has injured ribs. But Ambrose is able to avoid the GTS once again by smacking the ribs, which leads him to bust out a freaking butterfly suplex!:shocked: But Ambrose goes for one butterfly suplex too many on the top rope (which may have been a callback spot to their Smackdown match), which leads to Punk hitting a crossbody that Ambrose reverses into a rollup for an awesome nearfall. And BAM! Punk hits a surprise roundhouse kick for another brilliant nearfall. Now in and of themselves, a roundhouse kick, a butterfly suplex, and a rollup are not that convincing of match enders, but with the way these two set up the match so that every move counted, they had the crowd in the palm of their hands. Just goes to show how great the motto of "less is more" is.

The finish of the match plays to the initial Shield dissension story where Ambrose mistakenly calls off Rollins and Reigns so that he could prove to the others that he can beat Punk by himself, but foolish Ambrose met his demise at the hands of a GTS. It's probably the only thing that I can call a "flaw" in this match because I would have loved an ending that played more into the dual body work established in this match, but this ending wasn't bad by any means and the eventual GTS felt very rewarding.

Cjack, zep, anyone. Put this on your watchlist. Just brilliant work that you don't really notice until you watch closely and attentively. Everything felt like a struggle instead of a "match", which was the perfect direction. One of Ambrose's best singles matches in the company. Dude was great here. And the craziest part of all of this was that Punk wasn't even trying.

******


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> In the context of what happened last night, does anyone recall that Jericho/Bray match on NXT?


Nope. But ill try and upload it if anyone wants.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> What else have you watched?


Here is what I’ve seen so far (my own personal ratings are in parenthesis):

1.Ishii vs Shibata G1 Climax 2013 (****1/2)
2.Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin Showdown in the Sun II 2012(***3/4)
3.CM Punk vs John Cena MITB 2011 (*****)
4.Samoa Joe vs Kenta Kobashi ROH 2005 (*****)
5.Styles vs Daniels vs Joe TNA Unbreakable 2005 (***3/4)
6.Punk vs Joe II ROH 2004 (****1/2)
7.Kenta Kobashi vs Misawa NOAH 2003 (****1/2)
8.HBK vs Undertaker HIAC Badd Blood 1997 (*****)
9.Bret Hart vs Steve Austin WM 13 (*****)
10.HBK vs Razor Ramon WM 10 (****)
11.Octagon/Hijo del Santo vs Gringos Locos WWC 1994 (***1/2)
12.Bret Hart vs Owen Hart Summerslam 1994 (****1/4)
13.Misawa vs Kawada 6/3/94 (*****)
14.Wild Pegasus vs Great Sasuke (*****)
15.Stan Hansen vs Kenta Kobashi 7/29/93 (*****)
16.WarGames 1992 WCW (*****)
17.WarGames 1991 WCW (****1/2)
18.Flair vs Funk I Quit COTC 1989 (****3/4)
19.Flair vs Steamboat WrestleWar 89’ (*****)
20.Flair vs Steamboat 2/3 Falls COTC 89’ (*****)
21.Flair vs Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble 89’ (*****)
22.Flair vs Windham 4/11/87 (****1/2) 
23.Tiger Mask vs Dynamite Kid 4/21/83 (****)

I’ve still got quite a few left to view, I’ve intentionally skipped over all the fabulous AJPW tag matches I’m gonna save those for last.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt (NXT 05.01.2013)*


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> Did my own Lesnar project some months ago, using a custom comp i have. Every match/segment in order :mark:. Great times, hidden gems in there too like his Raw match against Bubba Ray, glorious.


Do you happen to have the dates of his matches on RAW and SD! from your project? I've just been watching ppvs and was going to look for the tv matches later. I, of course, know about the great ones vs. Rey, Benoit, Angle.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> Do you happen to have the dates of his matches on RAW and SD! from your project? I've just been watching ppvs and was going to look for the tv matches later. I, of course, know about the great ones vs. Rey, Benoit, Angle.


This is the listing to the comp i have/used:



Spoiler: Brock In WWE



Brock Lesnar in WWE

Disc 1
03/18/02 Raw Brock Lesnar Debut
03/21/02 Smackdown Brock Attacks Hurricane
03/25/02 Raw Brock Attacks Rikishi
03/25/02 Ric Flair Picks Brock Lesnar
03/28/02 Smackdown Brock Attacks DDP
04/01/02 Raw Brock Attacks Hardys
04/08/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
04/15/02 Raw Brock Attacks Matt Hardy
04/21/02 Backlash Brock Video
04/21/02 Backlash Brock Lesnar vs Jeff Hardy w/Lita
04/22/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Matt Hardy
04/29/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Shawn Stasiak
05/04/02 Insurrextion Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs The Hardy Boyz
05/06/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
05/06/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Shawn Stasiak
05/13/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs The Hardy Boyz
05/19/02 Judgment Day Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs The Hardy Boyz
05/20/02 Raw Paul Heyman/Trish Stratus Interview
05/20/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Trish Stratus/Bubba Ray Dudley
05/20/02 Raw Brock Attacks Bubba Ray Dudley
05/27/02 Raw Paul Heyman/Bubba Ray Interview
05/27/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Bubba Ray Dudley
06/03/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Rob Van Dam Interview
06/03/02 Raw Brock Lesnar & Eddie Guerrero vs Bubba Ray Dudley & Rob Van Dam


Disc 2
06/10/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Bubba Ray Dudley
06/10/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Vince McMahon
06/10/02 Raw Vince vs Ric Flair
06/17/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/nWo Interview
06/17/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Booker T
06/23/02 King Of The Ring Brock Lesnar vs Test
06/23/02 King Of The Ring Brock Lesnar vs Rob Van Dam
06/23/02 King Of The Ring Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
06/24/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Rob Van Dam Interview
06/24/02 Raw Vince McMahon/Paul Heyman Interview
06/24/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Rob Van Dam Interview
06/24/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Rob Van Dam
07/01/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Ric Flair Interview
07/01/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Ric Flair
07/01/02 Raw Rob Van Dam/Paul Heyman Interview
07/08/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Tommy Dreamer Interview
07/15/02 Raw Paul Heyman/Undertaker
07/15/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
07/15/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Undertaker Interview
07/15/02 Raw Brock Lesnar & Undertaker vs Ric Flair & Rob Van Dam


Disc 3
07/21/02 Vengeance Brock Promo
07/21/02 Vengeance Brock Lesnar vs Rob Van Dam
07/22/02 Raw Brock Lesnar vs Tommy Dreamer
07/22/02 Raw Stephanie/Eric Bischoff Interview
07/25/02 Smackdown Kurt Angle vs Mark Henry
07/25/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/25/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
08/01/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Mark Henry
08/01/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Hulk Hogan Interview
08/01/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
08/01/02 Smackdown Kurt Angle vs Hulk Hogan
08/01/02 Smackdown The Rock vs Eddie Guerrero vs Edge vs Chris Benoit Ending
08/08/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Hulk Hogan Video
08/08/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Hulk Hogan Interview
08/08/02 Smackdown Hulk Hogan Interview
08/08/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Hulk Hogan
08/10/02 Global Warning Tour Brock Lesnar vs The Rock vs Triple H
08/10/02 Global Warning Tour Aftermath


Disc 4
08/15/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Rikishi Interview
08/15/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Rikishi
08/15/02 Smackdown The Rock vs Chris Benoit Ending
08/19/02 Raw The Rock vs Triple H
08/22/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/The Rock Interview
08/22/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Video
08/22/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/The Rock Brawl
08/25/02 Summerslam Brock Lesnar vs The Rock
08/26/02 Raw Brock Lesnar/Eric Bischoff/Paul Heyman/Triple H/Undertaker Interview/Brawl
08/26/02 Raw Brock Lesnar Interview
08/26/02 Raw Stephanie McMahon/Eric Bischoff Interview
08/29/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Matt Hardy
09/05/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Randy Orton Interview
09/05/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Randy Orton


Disc 5
09/05/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon/Undertaker/Paul Heyman Interview
09/12/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Undertaker Video
09/12/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly
09/12/02 Smackdown Matt Hardy vs Undertaker
09/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Stephanie McMahon Interview
09/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
09/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs John Cena
09/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
09/19/02 Smackdown Undertaker Interview
09/22/02 Unforgiven Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
09/22/02 Unforgiven Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker
09/26/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
09/26/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Funaki Brawl
09/26/02 Smackdown Undertaker vs Matt Hardy
10/03/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Matt Hardy Interview
10/03/02 Smackdown Matt Hardy vs Undertaker
10/03/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Matt Hardy Interview
10/03/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Stephanie McMahon Interview


Disc 6
10/10/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
10/10/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Undertaker/Tracy Interview
10/10/02 Smackdown Paul Heyman/Stephanie McMahon Interview
10/10/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
10/10/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Tajiri vs Rey Mysterio & Edge
10/17/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Tracy Interview
10/17/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon/Paul Heyman/Tracy Interview
10/17/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Chuck Palumbo
10/17/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
10/17/02 Smackdown Stephanie McMahon/Paul Heyman Interview
10/17/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon/Paul Heyman Interview
10/20/02 No Mercy Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker
10/24/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
10/24/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Video
10/24/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Undertaker/Big Show Interview
10/24/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
10/24/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show/Paul Heyman Interview


Disc 7
10/26/02 Rebellion Rebellion Video
10/26/02 Rebellion Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
10/26/02 Rebellion Brock Lesnar & Paul Heyman vs Edge
10/31/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
10/31/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show/Paul Heyman Interview
10/31/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Rey Mysterio
11/07/02 Smackdown Recap Video
11/07/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Matt Hardy/Paul Heyman Interview
11/07/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show
11/07/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Eddie/Chavo Guerrero Interview
11/07/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero
11/14/02 Smackdown Paul Heyman/Big Show Interview
11/14/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
11/14/02 Smackdown Paul Heyman/Big Show Interview
11/14/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
11/14/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Big Show Interview/Brawl
11/17/02 Survivor Series Brock Video
11/17/02 Survivor Series Brock Lesnar vs Big Show


Disc 8
11/21/02 Smackdown Recap Video
11/21/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Matt Hardy/Los Guerreros/Stephanie McMahon
11/21/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon Interview
11/21/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon Interview
11/21/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Big Show/Stephanie McMahon
11/21/02 Smackdown Edge vs Big Show Ending
11/28/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon Interview
11/28/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Brawl
12/05/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Big Show Interview
12/12/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
12/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
12/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Matt Hardy
12/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
12/19/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle/Big Show/Paul Heyman Brawl
12/26/02 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Highlights
12/26/02 Smackdown Recap Video
01/02/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show/Paul Heyman/Matt Hardy Interview
01/02/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Matt Hardy


Disc 9
01/09/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs A-Train
01/16/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie Interview
01/16/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Rey Mysterio vs Big Show & A-Train
01/19/03 Royal Rumble Brock Lesnar vs Big Show
01/19/03 Royal Rumble Royal Rumble (Joined At Brocks Entrance)
01/19/03 Royal Rumble Brock Lesnar Interview
01/23/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
02/06/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Hulk Hogan Interview
02/06/03 Smackdown John Cena Rap
02/13/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle/Stephanie Interview
02/13/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs John Cena
02/13/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview/Brawl
02/20/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Tale Of The Tape
02/20/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Highlights
02/20/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Charlie Haas
02/20/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Shelton Bejamin
02/23/03 No Way Out Edge Taken Out
02/23/03 No Way Out Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit/Stephanie McMahon Interview
02/23/03 No Way Out Brock Lesnar & Chris Benoit vs Team Angle
02/23/03 No Way Out Brock Lesnar Interview


Disc 10
02/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit Interview
02/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Team Angle
03/06/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Paul Heyman w/Kurt Angle
03/13/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle
03/20/03 Smackdown Recap Video
03/20/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon/Kurt & Eric Angle Interview
03/20/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
03/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
03/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
03/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/John Cena/Kurt Angle Interview
03/30/03 Wrestlemania 19 Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle
04/03/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Highlights


Disc 11
04/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Arrives
04/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Matt Hardy
04/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Chris Benoit/Rhyno Interview
04/17/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/John Cena/Chris Benoit Interview
04/24/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs A-Train w/John Cena
04/27/03 Backlash Brock Lesnar/John Cena Video
04/27/03 Backlash Brock Lesnar vs John Cena
05/01/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon Interview
05/01/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Interview
05/08/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
05/08/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/FBI/Big Show/A-Train
05/15/03 Smackdown Chuck Palumbo vs Rikishi (Low Sound)
05/15/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Stephanie McMahon Interview (Low Sound)
05/15/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Rey Mysterio/Big Show Brawl (Low Sound)
05/18/03 Judgment Day Brock Lesnar/Big Show Video
05/18/03 Judgment Day Brock Lesnar vs Big Show


Disc 12
05/22/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Highlights
05/22/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Bull Stamboli
05/29/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Undertaker vs Johnny Stamboli, Chuck Palumbo & Big Show
06/05/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle/Big Show Interview
06/12/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show
06/19/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs The Big Show
06/26/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show/Mr. America Highlights
06/26/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle & Mr. America vs Charlie Haas, Shelton Benjamin & Big Show
07/03/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/03/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/03/03 Smackdown Zack Gowen & Stephanie McMahon vs Big Show
07/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview


Disc 13
07/10/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Charlie Haas, Shelton Benjamin & Big Show
07/17/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Vince McMahon Interview
07/17/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/24/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle/Zach Gowen/Vince McMahon Interview
07/24/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle & Zack Gowen vs Charlie Haas, Shelton Benjamin & Big Show
07/27/03 Vengeance Brock Lesnar vs Big Show vs Kurt Angle
07/31/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/31/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Interview
07/31/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Vince McMahon Interview


Disc 14
07/31/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Kurt Angle vs A-Train & Big Show
08/07/03 Smackdown Brock Knocked Out
08/07/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Vince McMahon
08/14/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Vince McMahon Interview
08/14/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Spanky
08/21/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Vince McMahon Interview
08/21/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Zack Gowen
08/24/03 Summerslam Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle


Disc 15
08/28/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Undertaker/Big Show/Kurt Angle Interview
08/28/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Zack Gowen Highlights
08/28/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Big Show vs Undertaker
09/04/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Eddie Guerrero/Vince McMahon/Sable/Big Show Interview
*09/04/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Vince McMahon Interview
09/04/03 Smackdown Kurt Angle vs Undertaker Ending
09/11/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show/Sable/Vince & Stephanie McMahon Interview
09/11/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Stephanie McMahon
09/18/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Highlights


Disc 16
09/18/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Kurt Angle
09/25/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Kurt Angle Highlights
09/25/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Undertaker/Vince & Stephanie McMahon Interview/Brawl
10/02/03 Smackdown Vince/Stephanie/Sable Interview
10/02/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & John Cena vs Kurt Angle & Undertaker


Disc 17
10/09/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Undertaker/FBI
10/09/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Attacks Paul London & Spanky
10/16/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Jamie Noble Brawl
10/16/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Undertaker Brawl
10/19/03 No Mercy Brock Lesnar vs Undertaker
10/23/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Interview
10/23/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Big Show vs Undertaker
10/30/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Interview
10/30/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show/Paul Heyman/Matt Morgan/Nathan Jones Interview
10/30/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/John Cena Interview
10/30/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Big Show vs APA


Disc 18
11/06/03 Smackdown Rey Mysterio vs John Cena Ending
11/06/03 Smackdown Team Lesnar/A-Train Interview
11/06/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar, Nathan Jones, Matt Morgan & A-Train vs Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit
11/13/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Big Show vs Chris Benoit & John Cena
11/16/03 Survivor Series Team Lesnar vs Team Angle
11/20/03 Smackdown Team Lesnar Interview
11/20/03 Smackdown Nathan Jones vs Chris Benoit
11/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
11/27/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/John Cena/Chris Benoit Interview


Disc 19
12/04/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
12/04/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Video
12/04/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Chris Benoit
12/11/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman/Rey Mysterio Interview
12/11/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Rey Mysterio
12/18/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
12/18/03 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Shannon Moore
01/08/04 Smackdown Big Show vs Hardcore Holly
01/15/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Interview
01/15/04 Smackdown Big Show vs Funaki


Disc 20
01/22/04 Smackdown Paul Heyman Interview
01/22/04 Smackdown Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Big Show Interview
01/22/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
01/22/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar, Matt Morgan, Big Show & Rhyno vs John Cena & Chris Benoit
01/25/04 Royal Rumble Brock Lesnar/Hardcore Holly Video
01/25/04 Royal Rumble Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly
01/25/04 Royal Rumble Brock Lesnar/Goldberg Interview
01/25/04 Royal Rumble Brock Lesnar Attacks Goldberg
01/29/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
01/29/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Orlando Jordan
02/05/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Eddie Guerrero Interview
02/12/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
02/12/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Eddie Guerrero Interview
02/12/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar & Big Show vs Eddie Guerrero & Kurt Angle


Disc 21
02/15/04 No Way Out Brock Lesnar vs Eddie Guerrero
02/16/04 Raw Brock Lesnar/Goldberg/No Way Out Highlights
02/19/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
02/23/04 Raw Vince McMahon vs Eric Bischoff
02/26/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
02/26/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Billy Gunn
03/04/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar Interview
03/04/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar vs Hardcore Holly
03/11/04 Smackdown Brock Lesnar/Paul Heyman Interview
03/14/04 WrestleMania XX Brock Lesnar vs Goldberg


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Any UK people pick up the free Main Event DVD with WWE Mag this month? 

Kofi vs. Miz
Sandow vs. Cena
ADR vs. Ryback
Punk vs. Seamus
Ziggler vs. Cesaro
Jericho vs. Rhodes
Orton vs. Cesaro
Rhodes Scholars vs. Hell No
US Battle Royal
Shield vs. Uso's & Gabriel

Pretty damn decent. I'll check it out soon. It also says volume 1 so hopefully there will be another one out soon with some recent stuff. I don't watch Main Event since we don't get it here but it's always nice to have a little match comp.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rewatched a gem from 2013 that deserves more attention in Dean Ambrose vs. CM Punk on the Slammy Edition of RAW.
> 
> Folks, please rewatch this and pay attention as both guys put in some great work here. Dual body work is established at the onset of the match with Punk saying "fuck you" to tradition and attacking Dean's right arm instead of his left, and Dean countering by attacking Punk's ribs that still feel the wear and tear of :reigns. Punk isn't an El Dandy of sorts, but he normally uses some nifty submissions whenever he works on a body part, and that is no exception here. Watch as Punk really "works" on Ambrose's arm after the armbar from the armdrag. The way Ambrose growls and screeches whenever someone puts a submission on him makes everything that much better.
> 
> ...


If this area were to ever get a local compilation of Best Matches in Seattle History it should certainly be considered for inclusion.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Talking about Benoit/Eddie. their first ever match:
> 
> *Eddie Guerrero vs Chris Benoit (New Japan 06.12.1993) (Handheld)*
> 
> ...


Wonderful.



RAINNMAKAHH said:


> The eventual Emma program would be refreshing with Paige as a heel as well.


Klepto is prob done for good now. _(apparently it was legit)_



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I watched the Davey Richards vs Michael Elgin Showdown in the Sun match from 2012 last night as part of my current project to watch all of Meltzer's 5-star matches and see how my ratings compare.
> 
> I have to say, if they had worked that match smarter, they would have had a hell of a great match on their hands. Not a 5-star match, but still great.
> 
> ...


That match, haha. Dunno what's worse, the match or the commentators standing up legit marking for it as it was happening. Nigel was putting Don West to shame.

Watch Generico vs Steen from the first night of that weekend for the one bout worth seeing. LA REVANCHA.



ATF said:


> In the context of what happened last night, does anyone recall that Jericho/Bray match on NXT?


Yes. Probably Jericho's best match during his stint last year. Swell stuff.


----------



## Darkness is here (Mar 25, 2014)

Cesaro vs zayn at nxt ppv(*****)
GREAT MATCH, SOME AMAZING SPOTS, good to see them hug it out at the end.
Hope they have a ladder match on the main roster, would be so EPIC.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Any UK people pick up the free Main Event DVD with WWE Mag this month?
> 
> Kofi vs. Miz
> Sandow vs. Cena
> ...


Aye I picked it up. First time in all my 20+ years of being a fan, I actually bought the WWE magazine . Thank fuck it came with the DVD because £4.99 for it? Fuck me, it's one of the WORST official magazines I've ever seen :lmao. 90% of it is just one giant picture on the page with a small paragraph of text. Then they have MOVIE AND GAME REVIEWS? In a wrestling magazine? WHY? And while I haven't looked them over, my friend skipped through it the other day and read out the "review" for one of the games... and it's literally just a summery of WHAT THE GAME IS... almost like it was taken from the back of the damn game box :lmao. I feel sorry for anyone who buys the WWE magazine on a regular basis because there is absolutely nothing in it worth reading.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Everyone drop what you are doing and go watch all of Slamboree 1994. Especially though, to watch Cactus and Sullivan vs the Nasties. I thought their Spring Stampede Street Fight was as good as it got, but this might be even better. I'm having so much fun right now.

Also on Slamboree 1994: Terry Funk vs Tully Blanchard, Flair vs Windham, Dustin vs Bunkhouse Buck in a Bullrope match, Zybysko vs Regal....I'm in heaven. Why haven't I seen this show?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> Aye I picked it up. First time in all my 20+ years of being a fan, I actually bought the WWE magazine . Thank fuck it came with the DVD because £4.99 for it? Fuck me, it's one of the WORST official magazines I've ever seen :lmao. 90% of it is just one giant picture on the page with a small paragraph of text. Then they have MOVIE AND GAME REVIEWS? In a wrestling magazine? WHY? And while I haven't looked them over, my friend skipped through it the other day and read out the "review" for one of the games... and it's literally just a summery of WHAT THE GAME IS... almost like it was taken from the back of the damn game box :lmao. I feel sorry for anyone who buys the WWE magazine on a regular basis because there is absolutely nothing in it worth reading.


I never get it either I just got it for the DVD. I pick up the odd issure if I'm in an airport there's a special or something maybe. I've been given a few as stocking fillers from my parents at Christmas too. But they are mostly a pile of rubbish, yes. The gym/workout pages are pretty decent though, I like those.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Dustin vs Bunkhouse Buck in a Bullrope match


I love that match. Heenan is also hilarious, esp when Dustin is going to pull something out of his pocket after being beat the shit out of for about 5 minutes straight, Shavione says "What is that", and Heenan goes "Maybe its a suicide note (i think), or a note from his dad" :lmao


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> read out the "review" for one of the games... and it's literally just a summery of WHAT THE GAME IS... almost like it was taken from the back of the damn game box


Isn't that every game review?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Everyone drop what you are doing and go watch all of Slamboree 1994. Especially though, to watch Cactus and Sullivan vs the Nasties. I thought their Spring Stampede Street Fight was as good as it got, but this might be even better. I'm having so much fun right now.
> 
> Also on Slamboree 1994: Terry Funk vs Tully Blanchard, Flair vs Windham, Dustin vs Bunkhouse Buck in a Bullrope match, Zybysko vs Regal....I'm in heaven. Why haven't I seen this show?


That's WCW '94 for ya, brother. :dance


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

WCW 1994 indeed, top 5 year in wrestling history


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin's bumps in the Thundercage. :homer6

yeah, random. but AWESOME. on thing to take home from the year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Half of WCW in 1994 ruled. Let's make sure to state that. Other half should not be remembered, but that first half felt like a natural continuation of the good stuff from 1992.

Flair/Windham from Slamboree was not good, but the rest of the stuff mentioned rule.


----------



## Game1778 (Aug 19, 2004)

Thanks Fab four for posting Chris Jericho vs Wyatt


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Yeah, I guess her being bigger and more aggressive in the ring, compared to AJ's flashier style, Paige would work better with her as a heel.
> 
> Emma program though? It may sound inevitable sure, but Emma was doomed the moment they paired her with Santino. They completely fucked her up and now she's basically a comedy jobber paired with a comedy jobber. Unless they do a serious change, like they did with the Usos last year (in a matter of weeks, they went from jobbers to top contenders to the Shield), I don't see Emma having any credible shot. I hope she has, because I like her and I really enjoyed their Arrival match, even if it is kinda overrated by the masses, but I don't see it.
> 
> ...


:dance I get it!

Oh and I love battle royals so I'm 100% ok with it. (Y)



Starbuck said:


> Any UK people pick up the free Main Event DVD with WWE Mag this month?
> 
> Kofi vs. Miz
> Sandow vs. Cena
> ...


Still waiting to see if it's gonna be playable in the U.S. before I try it on ebay. Cause I definitely want it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Match listing is a bit flat. Some goodies on there, but only about three of 'em. Hell No vs Rhodes Scholars & Orton vs Cesaro matches. Oof. WWE really skimped on the quality there for something in the "free" bracket. Those ones are _bad_. Too bad Cesaro vs Khali wasn't on it instead of the lame, run of the mill battle royal. Same could be said for a Rhodes singles match. He had great ones vs Del Rio & Axel, meanwhile the Jericho match was fine, albeit...that's all. Still, its free. Basically good enough of a price _(haha)_ w/Cesaro vs Ziggler, Cena vs Sandow, & Punker vs Sheamus in the mix.

All of this is making me want a real Main Event set now. Been some good stuff I'd like to own on DVD. Sh6oot. Did I just conjure up another project? Think so.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

In stark contrast to the typical self serving skeptical to truth Russo interview, Austin got two pretty damn interesting interviews out of the guy. Austin's ability to just go with the flow and not pry combined with the respect by guests for the elite level Austin got to always seems to produce good to fantastic interviews where guy open up. I do disagree with Russo's sentiments of guys mailing it in today. Hell, outside of RVD who has recently strung two good performances in a row, Truth Cara and Kane, I dont see anyone in the male division "mailing it in". Even Reigns is very high impact a great burst man and just has poor cardio and few moves.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

WrestlingOracle said:


> poor cardio and few moves.


That's quite the detriment when you're a professional wrestler. Anyway, Russo is a weird guy. He seems to have decent enough insight on the wrestling business when he's operating outside of it, but when he's actually involved in it, he's just awful. HERE'S SOME MITB RATINGS:

*Usos/Wyatts* - Didn't catch it, heard it was quite good.
*Paige/Naomi* - *1/2. This started out very bad, I thought, but they kind of saved it near the end. Was falling off the turnbuckle a spot or a botch? It looked fucking messy. They did some moves, did a bad job running the ropes. I've seen worse women matches.
*Rose/Sandow* - *. Didn't care. Boring. Don't like Adam Rose.
*MITB Ladder match* - ***1/2. Liked most of this. Ziggler and Ambrose put on great performances. That spot where Ziggler rammed into a ladder that was on top of Ambrose was nasty. Ambrose looked like a madman and was just incredible. Dude is a superstar. Lots of fun spots, enjoyed Swagger, although I don't really remember what he did. Ending felt very flaccid, and it just felt like Ambrose should have won. Kane coming out just killed me.
*Gold, Stardust/Rybaxel* - **3/4. This was fun. I love watching Cody and Goldust work. Those two are just complete superstars. Rybaxel were fine. I liked seeing some actual tandem offense from both teams.
*Big E/Rusev* - **1/4. Surprisingly decent. Just two big, mean dudes clobbering each other. Big E's promo where he tried to channel MLK before the match was hilariously bad. I hated the way the camel clutch was applied the first time, but then Rusev just killed Big E with the thing the next time he did it. Good stuff.
*Summer Rae/Layla* - DUD. Go away heat, get fucked.
*WWE Championship Ladder match* - ***. I liked watching Sheamus and Cesaro do stuff to each other. Seemed like most of the guys in the match just didn't give a shit. Orton getting busted opening was part scary, part amazing. Watching him just go ballistic afterwards was awesome. :lol Kane's involvement was sort of boring, but I liked the spot where he dragged Orton onto the ladder. Nice dropkick from Reigns onto the announce table. Didn't care for Wyatt, ADR or Cena in this match. Cool RKO spot off the ladder. Ending was just awful. Actually screamed at my TV. May have called Michael Cole an "insipid cunt" when he said Cena was the greatest WWE superstar ever.

Overall, it was a fun event. I'm glad that I got to watch it at another person's house and didn't pay for it, though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main Event project isn't as simple as I would have hoped. At least for a decent bit of the 2012 editions. For how much it was praised, Dolph vs Miz isn't anywhere to where I can find it online. That's too bad.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xva4rn_me-www-eventoshq-me-nov21_travel?start=0

This one?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Your midas touch strikes again. :banderas


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why are you watching something that you know you won't like? Surely this is time to catch up on your Midnight Rockers viewing.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Miz has had good matches with a terrible Lawler, spot-monkey Morrison and carried a meddling Cesaro on house shows throughout 2013.

About time people STAND UP and take note. GOAT right here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cody is going on a Main Event rampage? Ziggler/Miz is a good start, sure. But if I were you, if I really wanted to track down one of 2012's hidden gems - go for the first Sheamus/Barrett match. A very solid ***1/2 right there. And then go for the ****-worthy 2013 match between those two, which is in my honest opinion better (if slightly so) than Sheamus/Cesaro for best ME match of 2013 (not the best ME match ever though - that belongs to Shield/Wyatts III).

I would also recommend the Cesaro/Ryback matches, Titus/Tensai, Shield/Kofi & Tons Of Funk and Ambrose/Ziggler all from last year.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Miz has had good matches with a terrible Lawler, spot-monkey Morrison and carried a meddling Cesaro on house shows throughout 2013.
> 
> About time people STAND UP and take note. GOAT right here.


Morrison match wasn't that good, tbh.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Cody is going on a Main Event rampage? Ziggler/Miz is a good start, sure. But if I were you, if I really wanted to track down one of 2012's hidden gems - go for the first Sheamus/Barrett match. A very solid ***1/2 right there. And then go for the ****-worthy 2013 match between those two, which is in my honest opinion better (if slightly so) than Sheamus/Cesaro for best ME match of 2013 (not the best ME match ever though - that belongs to Shield/Wyatts III).
> 
> I would also recommend the Cesaro/Ryback matches, Titus/Tensai, Shield/Kofi & Tons Of Funk and Ambrose/Ziggler all from last year.


I'm going in chronological order. And Sheamus vs Barrett is good, but their weakest bout to my knowledge. _(still the third best match out of the first six episodes, tho)_ It's long, they rough each other up, but the focus is too fixated on Big Show at the announcers booth to really absorb all that was going on in the ring.

the real gem is Show vs Orton from 10/10/12. Heel nasty bastard Show around this time ruled the god damn world. Actually a match worth seeing w/this combo. Great match. During the time Orton was super ultra garbage. Bless Big Show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, the Big Show was bliss during that run in the fall of 2012. Those Sheamus matches, my God, especially Hell In A Cell which was just :banderas

I sort of recall that Show/Orton match on ME, remember it being decent but not great. Probably the only match of the two worthwhile. An argument could be made for the Extreme Rules match but I didn't like that much. I remember there was a Miz/Kofi match too. Jesus Christ. Personally, I actually sort-of liked their Breaking Point match, but was this Main Event match the same garbage I'd expect out of these two I don't know. Wasn't there some 6-Man Tag with Orton, Del Rio, Rhodes Scholars and Car Stereo too?


----------



## lemo (Jan 1, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I wouldn't say your buddy is flat wrong, if that's his opinion then so be it. You wouldn't believe the amount of times I've heard other GREAT pro wrestlers mention in passing that it is one of their favorite matches. I've heard Steve Austin, Edge, Mick Foley, Dolph Ziggler, Chris Jericho, and William Regal all put that WM 12 Ironman over as one of their all time favorites. Who am I to say they are wrong?
> 
> That said, the reason I personally don't like it is, it doesn't pass the first and most important test for any pro wrestling match: that is, it's not fun for me to watch. It seems like they trade basic headlocks and submissions for the first 30 minutes or so, it's just really tough to sit through. Outside of a few minutes of fast paced action in the first 50 minutes, and the last 10-12 minutes, it's just really really dull. Where is the intensity? What is the story? Another thing that bothers me is that neither guy really WORKS the holds they use. I have no problem with submission wrestling. Hell, I LOVE the Regal/Sting GAB 1996 match and that is essentially all William Regal working holds in the most awesome way. But when a guy just grabs say a headlock, and just sits there with a blank expression on his face, and the guy in the hold just lays there without showing any desperation or that he's in pain....why should I care? That happens non stop in that WM 12 match, just Shawn or Bret grabbing a hold and the other guy laying in it taking a cat nap.
> 
> ...



Not just your buddy thinks it's great, Apparently Austin, Edge, Steamboat, Cody, Patterson, Jericho , Regal and many orhers all said in different interviews it's one of thier favorite matches of all time.


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Downloaded 10 eps of ECW Hardcore TV. And I'm watching one right now. And the card looks semi-decent. The world must be about to end.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Paramore fan watching Miz matches? Cal watching ECW? What's next? Yeah1993 worshipping Chuck Taylor?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well the ECW show sucked. No use to me. Might as well delete the rest .

ALL IS RIGHT WITH THE WORLD.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That Miz/Morrison match is extremely overrated


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> That Miz/Morrison match is extremely overrated


No way brah. I'd chuck **** at it and say it was one of my favorite TV matches from 2011. Love it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Really ? Quite a few TV matches from that year that I'd put way above it. I feel its solid, but isnt anything overly special and closer to just a standard FCA raw than anything great tbh. Reason I call it extremely overrated is I've seen "****1/2" and "One of the greatest raw matches ever" thrown at it, I actually think I've seen MOTY thrown at it also


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> Morrison match wasn't that good, tbh.





NAITCH said:


> That Miz/Morrison match is extremely overrated


The truth is within these posts.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Well, by me giving it **** I'd say it's a MOTYC from 2011 but it's not like it's near the top at all. **** 1/2 is clearly too high but I'm sure it's from a bunch of goofs in the WWE section out there. I also disagree about it being standard FCA. Too many memorable moments (starship pain from the top rope to the floor through the table, dive off of the WWE tower sign thingy, excellent nearfalls near the end, etc.) for it to be run of the mill. That and the NOC match against Bryan are far and away Miz's best singles matches of his career.

There's actually nothing popping up for me off the top of my head that I'd say I'd put way above it TV match wise from 2011. I'd have it over Cena/Rey, Orton/Cody, that big 12 man tag that I think was from 2011, probably Punk/Ziggler, etc. I'd have to watch Cena/Punk again from after Summerslam.

Yeah, I love that match.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Watched Rock vs. Benoit at Fully Loaded 2000 again. Awesome match. Can't remember what match the blood on the mat is from though. Might have to watch the entire show.


----------



## AWR (Mar 26, 2011)

Angle vs Benoit RR '03 **** - one of my favorite benoit matches of all time


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Outlaw Josey Wales said:


> Watched Rock vs. Benoit at Fully Loaded 2000 again. Awesome match. Can't remember what match the blood on the mat is from though. Might have to watch the entire show.


Jericho/HHH LMS. Which is fecking awesome :mark:. Whole show rules though.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

The Outlaw Josey Wales said:


> Watched Rock vs. Benoit at Fully Loaded 2000 again. Awesome match. Can't remember what match the blood on the mat is from though. Might have to watch the entire show.


HHH is busted open v Jericho in the match before.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

AWR said:


> Angle vs Benoit RR '03 **** - one of my favorite benoit matches of all time


Well, in this thread, unless your name is Choke2Death, no one really likes that match you mentioned, AWR. Or any Angle/Benoit match for that matter 

I only really like WM 17 (***1/2) and Backlash '01 (****1/4). JD '01 is a guilty pleasure too, even if it is pretty bad. Not that I think RR '03 is horrible (I have it at ***), but the finisher spamming at the end which made the submissions look like a joke just wasn't all that much for me, even if it was fun to watch.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Agree with Morrison/Miz Falls Count Anywhere being a great match, makes it all the more so considering it was Morrison's last match, the die trying/guns blazing/go big or go home vibe of the match aligns well with that fact.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Jericho/HHH LMS. Which is fecking awesome :mark:. Whole show rules though.


Yeah, saw the match listing and remembered. Epic stuff. :mark::mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Well, in this thread, unless your name is Choke2Death, no one really likes that match you mentioned, AWR. Or any Angle/Benoit match for that matter


Speak for yourself. I love that match more than Choke2Death. One of my go-to matches whenever I don't know what to watch, and it truly felt like the climax of the Smackdown Six era.

Miz/Morrison wasn't Morrison's last match :lol. Dude had a lot of nice stuff throughout 2011. The McIntyre match. The Henry squashes. The Ziggler match at SvS :mark:. Yeah, John Morrison rules. He's an example of a guy that just "got" it. No such thing as a boring Morrison match.

Some other gems from 2011 on TV include ADR/Mysterio/Punk, Punk/Cena early in the year and a week before Capitol Punishment, Bryan/Henry Cage, Bryan/ADR, Christian/Orton Cage, Orton/Ziggler, and Sheamus/Bryan.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Really liked Miz/Morrison when it happened. Haven't seen it since.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, ok, I thought it was JUST C2D who liked it. I better shut up for good when it comes to that match :lol

Anyways, wanna talk about 2011 TV gems then you should mention stuff like Masters/McIntyre, Mysterio/Miz, Mysterio/Cena (which was fabulous), Punk/Ziggler, Orton/Kane Street Fight, Orton/Rhodes Street Fight, Mysterio & Riley/Miz & Swagger, the September 8-Man Tag, Orton/Barrett FCA (last match of that year), Punk/ADR, ADR/Mysterio both 2 out of 3 falls and WWE Title, Bryan/Cara, Kidd/Tatsu Leg on a Pole, the entire Kidd/Barreta series, and one of my favorite TV matches of the 2010's, Usos & Barreta/Slater, Gabriel & Kidd from Superstars. 2011 was LOADED with TV bliss.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Holy hell I FINALLY got around to watching Cena vs. Cesaro from RAW this year. **** 1/4 all the way for that. Some of those counters were gorgeous and the display of offense from Cesaro was beautiful. His facial expressions after not being able to put Cena away were great too. I didn't even have a problem with the finish. It was pretty damn cool actually! Can't believe it took me this long to get around to watching it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, you are only 5 months too late on that amazing match :lol

Not sure if y'all are interested, but I've conjured this mid year PPV match ranking with my own STARZ~, including the pre-show matches:



> Cesaro/Zayn, Arrival (****3/4)
> Shield/Wyatts, EC (****3/4)
> HHH/Bryan, WM (****1/4)
> Shield/Evolution, ER (****1/4)
> ...


Never in my wildest dreams I would think that I would rank a Hornswoggle/Torito match higher than a Taker/Lesnar match 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Loved the Contract ladder match, easily **** IMO. Insane spot. Uso's/Wyatt's was also fucking really good.










But, Kane's 'Tombstone' on Ambrose. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

While I'm still some time away from 2007 PPV Rambles, I figured I'd work on getting all the shows on DVD so they are ready for me to watch when I get to them (got all 05 and 06 on DVD already so I'm fine there). Ended up getting everything from 07 that I didn't own (RR, NWO, WM, BL, CS and SVS were the only ones I had) for a grand total of... £15.34. 4 of them were brand new and are coming 2morrow with Amazon Prime . Wish I could have picked up previous years for that cheap! I ended up just downloading most of 00, 01, 02, 03 and 04 .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also have my own Top 30 of the year thus far btw, with A LOT of Honorable Mentions to boot (I basically have every ***1/2+ match on this list, the ones I see not as good I put down to HM):


> *(****3/4)*
> Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
> The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber
> 
> ...





The Fab Four said:


> Loved the Contract ladder match, easily **** IMO. Insane spot. Uso's/Wyatt's was also fucking really good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suppose you're only watching MITB now. Well, the very moment Big E/Rusev II (which is pretty good) ends, you should turn it off. The WWE WHC match is just not that good - and Summer/Layla is HORRENDOUS. :agree:



#ROOT said:


> While I'm still some time away from 2007 PPV Rambles, I figured I'd work on getting all the shows on DVD so they are ready for me to watch when I get to them (got all 05 and 06 on DVD already so I'm fine there). Ended up getting everything from 07 that I didn't own (RR, NWO, WM, BL, CS and SVS were the only ones I had) for a grand total of... £15.34. 4 of them were brand new and are coming 2morrow with Amazon Prime . Wish I could have picked up previous years for that cheap! I ended up just downloading most of 00, 01, 02, 03 and 04 .


You're not even into like half of 2005 (when do you start JD) and you're thinking of 07 already... forward thinking, Mr. Cal.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Speak for yourself. I love that match more than Choke2Death. One of my go-to matches whenever I don't know what to watch, and it truly felt like the climax of the Smackdown Six era.
> 
> Miz/Morrison wasn't Morrison's last match :lol. Dude had a lot of nice stuff throughout 2011. The McIntyre match. The Henry squashes. The Ziggler match at SvS :mark:. Yeah, John Morrison rules. He's an example of a guy that just "got" it. No such thing as a boring Morrison match.
> 
> Some other gems from 2011 on TV include ADR/Mysterio/Punk, Punk/Cena early in the year and a week before Capitol Punishment, Bryan/Henry Cage, Bryan/ADR, Christian/Orton Cage, Orton/Ziggler, and Sheamus/Bryan.



Indeed, I always stick up for that match too. Although I think the NM 2002 tag is the quintessential Smackdown 6 match, as 4 of the 6 were in it.

Best TV match of 2011 is Cena/Rey, hands down.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Or better yet, the SVS triple threat tag... when all 6 guys were in it . And had a better match than NM tag and RR 03 wwe title match combined .

I'll be starting JD 05 next week probably. Busy with other stuff atm. Wanting to get my videos started again.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If you're gonna do videos again, you should do some for those End of the Year thoughts of your rambles, basically recapping everything, ranking the 10 best shows of the year, the best matches and whatnot, kinda like your Royal Rumble and WrestleMania specials 

Just a suggestion, though.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Miz/Morrison wasn't Morrison's last match :lol. Dude had a lot of nice stuff throughout 2011. The McIntyre match. The Henry squashes. The Ziggler match at SvS :mark:. Yeah, John Morrison rules. He's an example of a guy that just "got" it. No such thing as a boring Morrison match.


I meant in WWE, that should be abundantly clear to those who have capable minds. :


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That's actually a good idea. THE FUCK WERE YOU WHEN I FINISHED 2000? Now I've gotta catch up on 00, 01, 02, 03 and 04 first. Pfft, useless... :side:.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Or better yet, the SVS triple threat tag... when all 6 guys were in it . And had a better match than NM tag and RR 03 wwe title match combined .
> 
> I'll be starting JD 05 next week probably. Busy with other stuff atm. Wanting to get my videos started again.



I like that SVS best out of the 3 matches, but in no way would I say it's better than both combined. The reason I said the NM tag is the most quintessential Smackdown 6 match is because that match was the one that got all the praise from various wrestling publications and won "Match of the Year" in PWI and the Observer. Not saying that's right, as Taker/Lesnar NM blows all of those matches completely out of the water, but still, there is something to be said when several different media outlets rank it as the best WWE match of the year.

I'm not a big fan of Morrison/Miz, I think I'd give it ***1/2 at most.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> That's actually a good idea. THE FUCK WERE YOU WHEN I FINISHED 2000? Now I've gotta catch up on 00, 01, 02, 03 and 04 first. Pfft, useless... :side:.


Well, you can't say you didn't have time to think about that first. :genius

Plus, you can always do 03 after you have posted all of the ramblings in your blog. Just the other three to go 8*D


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I meant in WWE, that should be abundantly clear to those who have capable minds. :


No, it wasnt his last match in the wwe either, that FCA took place in Jan 2011, and he left in nov 11. They have an FCA on that nov 11 match, but it was just Miz injuring Morrison on the stage


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WHC Ladder Match was bad, really bad, no honestly really fucking bad. Giving it one star seems generous, just nothing at all happened in it lol. The ending was shit, it all was. Complete polar opposite to the other one. 

Oh well, grabbing Cena/Mysterio off YT now as i've never seen it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Something just struck me- was rewatching Orton vs Benoit from Summerslam 2004- back then as a teenager, Legend Killer Orton used to be one of my favorites and most of his matches from that time still hold up well imo, anyway I started thinking- did Legend Killer Orton ever go one on one against Eddie Guerrero?

I just can't remember any match featuring both of them- now that I think of it, I don't remember them being in a tag match either, can anyone help? :lol


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Orton as legend killer did have a match against Eddie in 2005, a few weeks before he died from what I recall.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Oh, I remember Eddie's last Raw match being against HHH I guess, don't remember the Orton match at all. Gotta start looking.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Best TV match of 2011 is Cena/Rey, hands down.


THIS. :mark:

Miz/Morrison is great too though. It's one of 2 John Morrison matches I actually like, the other being the Seamus Ladder match that I haven't seen in forever.


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> WHC Ladder Match was bad, really bad, no honestly really fucking bad. Giving it one star seems generous, just nothing at all happened in it lol. The ending was shit, it all was. Complete polar opposite to the other one.


One of the worst MITB matches I've seen tbh, apart from this:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> No, it wasnt his last match in the wwe either, that FCA took place in Jan 2011, and he left in nov 11. They have an FCA on that nov 11 match, but it was just Miz injuring Morrison on the stage


Oh, that's why. I look like an idiot now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAINNMAKAHH said:


> Something just struck me- was rewatching Orton vs Benoit from Summerslam 2004- back then as a teenager, Legend Killer Orton used to be one of my favorites and most of his matches from that time still hold up well imo, anyway I started thinking- did Legend Killer Orton ever go one on one against Eddie Guerrero?
> 
> I just can't remember any match featuring both of them- now that I think of it, I don't remember them being in a tag match either, can anyone help? :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ArnoldTricky said:


> One of the worst MITB matches I've seen tbh, apart from this:


Which is a one year old spot:


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

FANTASY DVD CONCEPT TIME



Spoiler: Daniel Bryan: Rise of the Movement



Entire "Journey to WrestleMania" documentary

Chris Jericho vs. Daniel Bryan
NXT – February 23, 2010

US Title Match
The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan
Night of Champions 2010 – September 19, 2010

Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler
Bragging Rights 2010 – October 24, 2010

World Title Money in the Bank Ladder Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Sin Cara vs. Kane vs. Wade Barrett vs. Heath Slater vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Justin Gabriel
Money in the Bank 2011 – July 17, 2011

Closing moments of Mark Henry vs. Big Show
TLC 2011 – December 18, 2011

World Title – 2/3 Falls Match
Sheamus vs. Daniel Bryan
Extreme Rules 2012 – April 29, 2012

WWE Title – Hardcore Match
Guest Ref: AJ Lee
CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan
Money in the Bank 2012 – July 15, 2012

Tag Titles Match
R-Truth & Kofi Kingston vs. Team Hell No
Night of Champions 2012 – September 16, 2012

Hellacious Destruction vs. The Shield
Raw – April 22, 2013

Hardcore Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton
Raw – June 24, 2013

MizTV
Guests: John Cena and Daniel Bryan
Raw – August 12, 2013

WWE Title Match
John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan
SummerSlam 2013 – August 18, 2013

WWE Title – Elimination Chamber
Randy Orton vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Cesaro vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan
Elimination Chamber 2014 – February 23, 2014

Occupy Raw
Raw – March 10, 2014

WWE Title Shot Match
Daniel Bryan vs. Triple H
WrestleMania XXX – April 6, 2014

WWE Title – No DQ Match
Randy Orton vs. Batista vs. Daniel Bryan
WrestleMania XXX – April 6, 2014

BLU RAY EXTRAS

John Cena vs. Bryan Danielson
Velocity – February 8, 2003

Dark Match
Sheamus, Big Show, & Randy Orton vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton
Raw – April 2, 2012

John Cena’s Decision
Raw – July 15, 2013

Championship Ascension Ceremony
Raw – December 9, 2013

Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan
Raw – December 16, 2013


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Super Sonic said:


> FANTASY DVD CONCEPT TIME
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cool. Always like reading these sorts of custom things.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Super Sonic said:


> FANTASY DVD CONCEPT TIME
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's a cool list, but to me, you absolutely, positively, 100% can't make a Bryan set without his OTL 2012 match vs Punk. Can't be done. Shouldn't happen.

I'd also consider throwing on his Gauntlet match on Raw vs Cesaro and Swagger because not only is it amazing, it really helps capture for story telling purposes how the odds were being stacked against him heading into Summerslam. Replace the Taker/Hell No/Shield tag with the Gauntlet as that match wasn't all that great and should probably go on a Shield comp anyway.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, Emma was officially FIRRRRREEEEDDD after her arrest on Monday. Wasn't that oh so ever shocking? 8*D

In all honesty though, she was kinda wasted anyway. She did have a very good if overrated match against Paige at Arrival, and I liked her antics. So, that's one of the very few Divas worthwhile atm gone for good. Hot damn. Well, at least AJ's back, so there's that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's a cool list, but to me, you absolutely, positively, 100% can't make a Bryan set without his OTL 2012 match vs Punk. Can't be done. Shouldn't happen.
> 
> I'd also consider throwing on his Gauntlet match on Raw vs Cesaro and Swagger because not only is it amazing, it really helps capture for story telling purposes how the odds were being stacked against him heading into Summerslam. Replace the Taker/Hell No/Shield tag with the Gauntlet as that match wasn't all that great and should probably go on a Shield comp anyway.


Seabs' Best Of Daniel Bryan and Best Of The Shield comps are where its at.

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/34189930-post6010.html
http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35271154-post1267.html


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Actually scratch what I said, Emma has been reinstated :lol

Anyway, folks, would you agree with me that Savage & Elizabeth are BY FAR the greatest couple in WWE history?


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

*WWE MONEY IN THE BANK 2014*

*WWE Tag Team Championship*
The Usos (c) vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan ***1/4

*Diva's Championship*
Paige (c) vs Naomi **

Damien Sandow vs Adam Rose 1/2*

*Money in the Bank Ladder Match*
Seth Rollins vs Rob Van Dam vs Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler vs Kofi Kingston vs Dean Ambrose ***1/2

Ryback & Curtis Axe vs Goldust & Stardust *1/4

Rusev vs Big E **3/4

*Special Guest Referee: Fandango*
Summer Rae vs Layla DUD

*WWE World Heavyweight Championship - Ladder Match*
Sheamus vs Bray Wyatt vs Alberto del Rio vs Cesaro vs John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Roman Reigns vs Kane ***1/2

*Overall Grade:* 6.0


Regular show from WWE, No MOTY candidates.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Yeah1993 worshipping Chuck Taylor?


Nope.



NAITCH said:


> That Miz/Morrison match is extremely overrated


Yep.


----------



## chargebeam (Jul 12, 2011)

CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS :mark:

I hope there's a chapter about the December to Dismember fiasco.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Which is a one year old spot:


He did it in the 2010 RAW MITB too


----------



## NastyYaffa (Jun 26, 2012)

Super Sonic said:


> FANTASY DVD CONCEPT TIME
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:mark:


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Watching Raw now. I actually enjoyed a RVD match for the first time in like ever. Mostly because Rollins bumped huge for him and sold the effects of MitB like a champ, but credit where it's due, Van Dam looked good too. Solid promo from Rollins and Ambrose afterwards as well. Their feud is the main thing keeping me watching.

edit: and Lana too kind of. She's money.

edit 2: great episode. The 6 man tag was totally wild and about as good as Usos/Wyatts at the PPV. Yet another trios gem on WWE TV. Luke Harper owns the fucking universe. And they let him score the pin too. 

Lana/Rusev/Zeb/Swagger segment, Jericho's return and AJ's return were all :mark: worthy. Then there's the Rollins/Ambrose feud which has been perfection up to this point. They feel like the stars of the show even though Cena has the belt and I love it. Officially pumped for the summer season. Bring on Cena/Lesnar, Jericho/Wyatt, Rollins/Ambrose and HHH/Reigns. Hell I'm looking forward to Swagger/Rusev too.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

chargebeam said:


> CAN'T WAIT FOR THIS :mark:
> 
> I hope there's a chapter about the December to Dismember fiasco.












check out these two interviews. the first one was made just days before december to dismember and the other interview is two years later when he gets into it again. it's a good interview, both of them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> He did it in the 2010 RAW MITB too


Oh yeah, I forgot about that too. Orton remembers his MITB spots better than his lines rton2

Anyway, it's time for... PART 11 BIATCHES.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN RANKING

Previous part: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35985402-post2222.html

Obviously, with MITB taking place this past Sunday, I needed to fit in its own MOTN, therefore changing quite a lot of the course of the list. Here's where its entrance can be found:

#129: Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank 2014









PART 11
(99-81)

#99: Dean Ambrose vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango, Money In The Bank 2013









#98: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004









#97: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1998









#96: Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007









#95: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009









#94: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2001









#93: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, No Mercy 1999









#92: Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008









#91: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009









#90: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001









#89: Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007









#88: Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010









#87: The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, SummerSlam 1989









#86: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2001









#85: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal, No Mercy 2006









#84: The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers, Royal Rumble 1994









#83: The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008









#82: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Judgment Day 2005









#81: The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997








*​


Spoiler: Updated list



*(*)*
#302: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#301: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#300: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#299: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#298: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#297: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#296: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#295: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#294: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#293: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#292: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#291: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#290: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#289: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#288: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)
*#287: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#286: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#285: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#284: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#158: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#157: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#156: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#155: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#154: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#153: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#152: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#151: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#150: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#149: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#148: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#147: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#146: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#145: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#144: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#143: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#142: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#141: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004
#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#129: Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank 2014
#128: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#127: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#126: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#125: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#124: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#123: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#122: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#121: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#120: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996
*(****1/4)*
#119: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27
#118: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
#117: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008
#116: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014
#115: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
#114: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011
#113: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
#112: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011
#111: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
#110: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
#109: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
#108: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
#107: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008
#106: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006
#105: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012
#104: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012
#103: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008
#102: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999
#101: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
#100: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
#99: Dean Ambrose vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango, Money In The Bank 2013
#98: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
#97: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1998
#96: Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
#95: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009
#94: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2001
#93: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, No Mercy 1999
#92: Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
#91: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009
#90: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#89: Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
#88: Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010
#87: The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, SummerSlam 1989
#86: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2001
#85: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal, No Mercy 2006
#84: The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers, Royal Rumble 1994
#83: The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
#82: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Judgment Day 2005
#81: The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Everyone go download the "A Corny in the UK" thingy. Tis awesome. Watching the documentary part and it's great, can't wait to watch the full live shows and the seminar on booking and managing.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Meltzer ratings for MITB 14:

Usos vs Luke Harper & Erick Rowan: ***3/4
Paige vs Naomi: 1/2*
Adam Rose vs Damien Sandow: *
Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose vs Dolph Ziggler vs RVD vs Kofi Kingston vs Jack Swagger: ****1/2
Goldust & Stardust vs Rybaxel: **
Big E vs Rusev: ***
Layla vs Summer Rae: DUD
John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Kane vs Roman Reigns vs Alberto Del Rio vs Bray Wyatt vs Sheamus: ****


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

**** for the Main Event?

He must really like DOSE SPOTZ~, _*even when the match barely has them*_ :meltzer


----------



## ArnoldTricky (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Still waiting to see if it's gonna be playable in the U.S. before I try it on ebay. Cause I definitely want it.


It's not region free.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

But who the fuck doesn't own a region free dvd player these days? Got a PC and a DVD Drive? There are like a bazillion ways to remove the region code so you can watch it on the computer.

:lmao just watched a hardcore match involving Al Snow, and he moved a STEEL CHAIR out of the way to get to a cookie sheet :lmao.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well done Amazon...

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss149/WrestlingElite/Picture5_zps9f1b2fb4.jpg


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Well done Amazon...
> 
> http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss149/WrestlingElite/Picture5_zps9f1b2fb4.jpg


:lol Don't like the film then Cal?



DoubtGin said:


> Meltzer ratings for MITB 14:
> 
> John Cena vs Randy Orton vs Kane vs Roman Reigns vs Alberto Del Rio vs Bray Wyatt vs Sheamus: ****


WTF was he watching lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Well done Amazon...
> 
> http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss149/WrestlingElite/Picture5_zps9f1b2fb4.jpg


You might as well watch that "movie" instead of the disaster that is JD 2007 8*D


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

If Brock is working NOC, surely he is indeed winning the belt off Cena right......right?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Khali seems to have had a bit of a tan there.


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> If Brock is working NOC, surely he is indeed winning the belt off Cena right......right?


Shall. But cleanly? I doubt.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> If Brock is working NOC, surely he is indeed winning the belt off Cena right......right?


It would be crazy if he didn't.

I'm already thinking forward, and I say it should be imperative that, if he is the WWE WHC Champ by then, which he should, he HAS - imperatively - to work Survivor fucking Series. And because Lesnar/Reigns is definitely in the works for WM 31, I'd say that would be the perfect opportunity to unleash Lesnar/Bryan on everyone. Regardless of its lack of importance, it is still SURVIVOR SERIES we're talking about. If they want to get back some numbers and regain the importance of one of their biggest shows of the year, that's the perfect Main Event.

Also, while you're at it, do some SVS Elimination Match that actually matters. I'd say when Barrett returns, put him in a feud against the man who took him out, Swagger, in one of those USA vs Europe feuds. Swagger would captain the babyface American team (let's say Swagger, Ziggler, RVD if he's still there and if not Big E and Goldust & Stardust) vs Barrett as captain of the European heels (Barrett, Rusev, Cesaro (if he's still a heel), Sheamus (finally turn him heel) and a returned Regal). In which I'd personally have Barrett and Cesaro be the sole survivors, Cesaro being the Reigns of his team by sending out half of the faces.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GAYFORMICHAELBAY said:


> Shall. But cleanly? I doubt.


I agree there, winning is one thing, cleanly against Cena? Gotta doubt that one.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

WWE always prioritizes Cena never losing a speck of momentum to keep that superman vibe legitamate so parents buy the kids merch to drive the profits up. Given how protected Cena is, it would be really powerful for someone to beat Cena with no bullshit and no injury to blur the win. Hell, Bryan beating Cena with a legitamate tricepp injury that kept getting highlighted was still huge for bryan's legitamacy from a threat standpoint.

Brock breaking the streak instantly made him an attraction again. Beating Cena clean would make him dominant again. All this about Lesnar losing his heat and getting
cheered vs Cena is bad for him is bullshit. Brock being the specimen he is with his pedigree is going to get cheers anyway. The importance with Brock unlike almost any other heel is that the audience feels not anger but awe. * No one pays to see Brock get his ass kicked; people pay to see Brock kick ass.* WWE swung for a homerun on the network and is striking out. Go all in with Lesnar and show people at Summerslam that indeed the Beast is unleashed and people will pay. I would have to think Brock is a shoe in to win because WWE is a profit company and they would be a fool to not see that Brock is best for business. If Brock wins clean money will flow. If Brock loses or if he is booked into the box every other heel is, then why even bother making him an attraction again in the first place? What will happen? Not sure.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Good point regarding all the Network sruff, if they 'waste' Brock now, then they are as fucked up as id often imagine them to be.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I dont see how a win over Cena helps Brock THAT much as he is already established and "legitimized" as he doesn't need Cena to legitimized him, but conversely he can't afford a lose this soon so there is that

Going to laugh so hard once WWE tries to put out an amazing card for NOC and good booking for once,but I hope fans arent that easy to believe and renew their subscription to the network and cancel it as I do


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Sheamus vs Luke Harper (NXT 07.24.2013)*



Small upload.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So much YES for that Sheamus/Harper match. One of NXT's best from last year - and NXT had a lot of insanely good stuff. :mark:



NAITCH said:


> I dont see how a win over Cena helps Brock THAT much as he is already established and "legitimized" as he doesn't need Cena to legitimized him, but conversely he can't afford a lose this soon so there is that
> 
> *Going to laugh so hard once WWE tries to put out an amazing card for NOC and good booking for once*,but I hope fans arent that easy to believe and renew their subscription to the network and cancel it as I do


Well, Lesnar/Cena III (Cena is rematch-bound after all, since he's almost certainly losing at SS) and HHH/Reigns are probably the Main Events of that card, so it does look like a pretty big event. Not a great pair by any means but still pretty big. Last year's NOC was a disaster, good that they actually care this time around.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I just realized that the WWE has the PERFECT opportunity to build some big feuds that could have Hell in a Cell be the payoff. Will they do it? I doubt it.  But Ambrose/Rollins, HHH/Reigns, Orton/Reigns, and maybe even Cena/Lesnar have potential to be long term feuds that could legitimately be finalized inside the Cell. Keep your fingers cross, fellas.

You know what else I'd like to see? Paige take the belt back at Battleground so they can have the payoff at Summerslam. Maybe 2 out of 3 falls so they give the women's divison something worthwhile that's NOT taking place in NXT.

You know what else will be badass? All the gimmick matches Dean & Seth could be involved in during this rivalry. :mark: After their traditional singles that go awry.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

WWE couldn't immediately capitalize on the hype of Lesnar beating the Streak, so with the hype died down i don't see Lesnar winning the belt being huge let alone when he wins then disappears with the belt.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well Corey, according to DEM RUMOURZ, Dean and Seth are supposedly going to have a 1-on-1 MITB Ladder match at SummerSlam, kinda like Cena/Ziggler from TLC 2012. Which sounds AWESOME. :mark: And the same rumours also say AJ/Paige Submission is on the works.

But yeah, I don't think they care much about SummerSlam this year though. With the whole subscription renewals thing, they really seem to wanna go balls out for Night Of Champions instead. Jericho is confirmed work NOC, HHH/Reigns is being more leaned to NOC, Lesnar is almost confirmed to work NOC, Bryan should be back close enough to NOC, I think they have makings of something there. 

If I were them, I would also be a little edgy and capitalize on this whole Emma firing/rehiring situation by giving her a title shot against AJ and really pushing a Eddie Guerrero-esque gimmick for Emma (lying, cheating and STEALING). Why not? 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not canceling my subscription, it's freaking $10 I never even notice the money coming out. As long as they keep it at $10 and keep adding new content, no reason for me to ever cancel it. 

Screw stacking the NoC card, the BEST thing they can do to boost subscriptions is to start adding more full seasons of Nitro, Raw, and Smackdown. They own all the Mid South and WCCW libraries too, there is just such huge potential for the Network, I don't see why I would ever want to cancel. And if they ever get their hands on the Memphis library, I might have to quit my job and dedicate my life to watching the entire career of Jerry Lawler.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ehhh, they probably wont do that, and if so it will be for a long long time. Problem with the network is the stream for these ppv are WOAT so its pointless, they dont have the raws/nitro up and other exclusives besides Vickie's Couger countown down so they seem to just be coasting. The produect is abymsmal atm so why even support than in any way. I'm also not one who needs 1080p quality with all matches, so I can go back to just finding all things online

I'm speaking as a person who's plan is canceling it and renewing around RTWM


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Meh, NAITCH is complainin about small apples.  My stream was shit for the first half of MITB, but the last half was perfect. I've never had any other major problems except for WrestleMania. Not really much to complain about when it's only $10 a month. You already have every PPV, every Clash, a shit ton of RAW & SDs, documentaries, and special content. No point in cancelling when you get all that for a small price. Every PPV this year has given me at least one match that I've truly enjoyed.

Know what else I think would be awesome? Sheamus, The Usos, & Chris Jericho vs. The Wyatt Family & Miz. Book it for Battleground???


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That sounds pretty cool, and worthy of being a match on BATTLEGROUND when you think about it. But I'm pretty sure they are heading towards a 6-Man Tag ft. The Wyatts vs The Usos and Jericho, which seems stupid when considering they do Wyatts vs Usos & random partner everytime on TV now, but if Jericho doesn't actually wrestle until Battleground, then it could be built up as Jericho's return match and thus have far bigger impact than if Jericho had already been in the ring at the time. No idea what to do for Sheamus and Miz though. Maybe a random US Title match between them? Ehh... Unless they are both entered in the IC Title Battle Royal, which is doubtful in Sheamus' case.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm thinking Jericho's gonna face Miz at Battleground and then Bray at SummerSlam


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I believe Sheamus & Miz have been facing off on house shows before Miz made his RAW return. I also believe I read somewhere that Jericho is scheduled to face Miz next week on RAW. Either way the inevitable Jericho/Wyatt singles match should be great and hopefully Summerslam.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, the inevitable Jericho/Wyatt singles match WAS great already. Last year on NXT. Hot dayum, NXT 2013 was the amazing shit. But this grand stage step-up at SS should be great as well, especially since Bray is a better in-ring performer than he was when he first faced Jericho I'd say. With that, Ambrose/Rollins and Cena/Lesnar, SS looks like it will have quite a share of classics.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jericho v Miz has been announced for Raw next week.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Where has it been announced?

And, well, good that's it not on PPV. Jericho/Miz doesn't sound too bad but I think I'd much rather see the Wyatts/Y2J & Usos tag and Miz on the Battle Royal - or hell, the proposed 8-Man Tag by Corey with Sheamus on the face side and Miz on the heel side.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I just realized that the WWE has the PERFECT opportunity to build some big feuds that could have Hell in a Cell be the payoff. Will they do it? I doubt it.  But Ambrose/Rollins, HHH/Reigns, Orton/Reigns, and maybe even Cena/Lesnar have potential to be long term feuds that could legitimately be finalized inside the Cell. Keep your fingers cross, fellas.
> 
> You know what else I'd like to see? Paige take the belt back at Battleground so they can have the payoff at Summerslam. Maybe 2 out of 3 falls so they give the women's divison something worthwhile that's NOT taking place in NXT.
> 
> You know what else will be badass? All the gimmick matches Dean & Seth could be involved in during this rivalry. :mark: After their traditional singles that go awry.


Orton/Reigns should be one and done at SummerSlam. They've already wrestled each other a hundred times on Raw and it just isn't that big a match. Ambrose/Rollins should definitely be a minimum of three matches. Cena/Lesnar III should happen at Night of Champions, assuming Brock wins the title at SummerSlam. They could run HHH/Reigns for a couple months and I wouldn't mind but I'd also be cool with them just doing the one match at NoC.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

I _think_ it was in the Smackdown spoilers.

Sorry for not spoilering it


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> I dont see how a win over Cena helps Brock THAT much as he is already established and "legitimized" as he doesn't need Cena to legitimized him, but conversely he can't afford a lose this soon so there is that
> 
> Going to laugh so hard once WWE tries to put out an amazing card for NOC and good booking for once,but I hope fans arent that easy to believe and renew their subscription to the network and cancel it as I do


It's not about a win over Cena helping Brock, it's about positioning Brock as the unbeatable guy who ended the streak and now has the title so they can use him to legitimize a new star (Reigns at WM31 according to the rumors). Beating Lesnar is the biggest win anyone can get at this point, way bigger than beating Cena or HHH, so it makes sense to keep him undefeated until they're ready to pull the trigger on Reigns.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Random question, but what was the date The Rock joined The Corporation?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Random question, but what was the date The Rock joined The Corporation?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_Series_(1998)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivor_Series_(1998)


Thanks Cal. Thought it was that PPV but i had a second thought it was a Raw lol.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Naitch: what are you using to watch the Network? I've NEVER had a live Stream with any issues, the worst that will happen to me is a 10 second freeze while watching old content, but that's only every once in a while. I'm also someone who NEEDS things to be HD, I can't watch all these fabulous matches Zep uploads that are shot with hand cams, it drives me nuts. I just use my laptop with a wifi connection and plug the hdmi cable into my TV.

Anyone got a rec for me?


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)




----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm also someone who NEEDS things to be HD, I can't watch all these fabulous matches Zep uploads that are shot with hand cams, it drives me nuts. I just use my laptop with a wifi connection and plug the hdmi cable into my TV.


Fucking be grateful, snob.  

FUCKING WATCH THIS AND BE IMPRESSED:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Naitch: what are you using to watch the Network? I've NEVER had a live Stream with any issues, the worst that will happen to me is a 10 second freeze while watching old content, but that's only every once in a while. I'm also someone who NEEDS things to be HD, I can't watch all these fabulous matches Zep uploads that are shot with hand cams, it drives me nuts. I just use my laptop with a wifi connection and plug the hdmi cable into my TV.
> 
> Anyone got a rec for me?


MS-1 v. Sangre Chicana is possibly the single greatest wrestling match off all time and you might not watch it because the footage quality is SHIT!? 

[[[[BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO]]]]


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> MS-1 v. Sangre Chicana is possibly the single greatest wrestling match off all time and you might not watch it because the footage quality is SHIT!?
> 
> [[[[BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO]]]]


Watched that earlier lol, i have no problem about the quality. It certainly isn't 'shit' IMHO.


----------



## clinic79 (Dec 25, 2013)

Absolutely loved TLC 4 after re-watching it. It's been long since last time..


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That TLC match probably had the single greatest Kane performance ever... that wasn't the 2001 Royal Rumble. 

Right now, I gotta be honest. I'm in the mood for some :barrett. Then again, I always am 8*D

I think I'm gonna watch the entire Sheamus series - especially the masterpiece on Main Event last year that anyone who appreciates clobbering and fighting and PUNCHES and STIFFSTUFF~ will adore. Looking at you too, Cal :side:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Naitch: what are you using to watch the Network? I've NEVER had a live Stream with any issues, the worst that will happen to me is a 10 second freeze while watching old content, but that's only every once in a while. I'm also someone who NEEDS things to be HD, I can't watch all these fabulous matches Zep uploads that are shot with hand cams, it drives me nuts. I just use my laptop with a wifi connection and plug the hdmi cable into my TV.
> 
> Anyone got a rec for me?


Didn't you say you watch everything on your computer? Most people use the PS3/Xbox stream which I think is the one that has troubles.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I use a PS4, Honestly, the stream is bad for me 20 % of the time with mania 30 being the worse its ever been. The thing is it will repeat and dip in quality ALOT, which what I'm paying for. I dont use it THAT much (network) so might as well cut it off.

Need something to watch. KIND of have a wrestling fix atm


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch this:






And then watch this:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Thanks for the recs, I'll check them out now.


I guess I should clarify, I don't need actual HD clips to enjoy matches, but I can't watch those really grainy hand cam videos with no commentary to help me figure out what's going on. Either it needs to be decent enough quality that I can pick out the holds and see the expressions, or I can take grainier videos that have commentary to help me get the story that's being told. Like, standard YOUTUBE quality videos are fine, but man the Network has totally spoiled me because getting to watch old WCW matches in Hi Def is so awesome.

Yeah, that match you were talking about, is it a hand cam video? Is it atleast like the clip for Flair/Steamboat Landover where you can clearly see the match?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidIDa2LpXA

match is here. I'm honestly stupefied at the quality....I thought it was ten times worse. I must have been confusing it with another match, or the only video I watched that match on was the worst quality available.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidIDa2LpXA
> 
> match is here. I'm honestly stupefied at the quality....I thought it was ten times worse. I must have been confusing it with another match, or the only video I watched that match on was the worst quality available.


I just took a quick peak, yea not too bad at all, I can watch that without any problems. I added it to my playlist and will watch it when I wake up tomorrow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN LIST

Latest part: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36272954-post2549.html

Swing and a MISS on the list. Here's a forgotten match/show:

#284: Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991









PART 12
(80-69)

#80: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T, Survivor Series 2002









#79: The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Battleground 2013









#78: The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules 2014









#77: Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio, Payback 2013









#76: The Rockers vs. The Orient Express, Royal Rumble 1991









#75: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, Royal Rumble 1995









#74: Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies









#73: Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30









#72: Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8









#71: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007









(****1/2)
#70: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010









#69: Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 24









#68: Batista vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 23









#67: The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002









#66: Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2003









#65: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1988









#64: Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, One Night Only 1997









#63: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000









#62: Edge vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre, Elimination Chamber 2011









#61: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29








*​


Spoiler: Updated list



*(*)*
#303: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#302: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#301: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#300: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#299: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#298: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#297: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#296: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#295: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#294: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#293: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#292: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#291: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#290: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#289: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#288: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#287: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#286: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#285: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#284: Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#158: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#157: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#156: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#155: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#154: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#153: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#152: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#151: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#150: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#149: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#148: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#147: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#146: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#145: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#144: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#143: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#142: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#141: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004
#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#129: Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank 2014
#128: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#127: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#126: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#125: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#124: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#123: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#122: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#121: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#120: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996
(****1/4)
#119: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27
#118: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
#117: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008
#116: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014
#115: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
#114: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011
#113: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
#112: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011
#111: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
#110: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
#109: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
#108: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
#107: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008
#106: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006
#105: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012
#104: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012
#103: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008
#102: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999
#101: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
#100: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
#99: Dean Ambrose vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango, Money In The Bank 2013
#98: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
#97: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1998
#96: Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
#95: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009
#94: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2001
#93: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, No Mercy 1999
#92: Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
#91: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009
#90: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#89: Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
#88: Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010
#87: The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, SummerSlam 1989
#86: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2001
#85: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal, No Mercy 2006
#84: The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers, Royal Rumble 1994
#83: The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
#82: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Judgment Day 2005
#81: The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997
#80: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T, Survivor Series 2002
#79: The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Battleground 2013
#78: The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules 2014
#77: Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio, Payback 2013
#76: The Rockers vs. The Orient Express, Royal Rumble 1991
#75: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, Royal Rumble 1995
#74: Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
#73: Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
#72: Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8
#71: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007
(****1/2)
#70: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010
#69: Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 24
#68: Batista vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 23
#67: The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
#66: Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2003
#65: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1988
#64: Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, One Night Only 1997
#63: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
#62: Edge vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre, Elimination Chamber 2011
#61: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

A fellow member posted these a while ago, Punk's heel promos collection:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135fxi_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-1-4_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gie_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-2-4_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gpx_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-3-4_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135h40_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-4-4_sport

Just grabbed them myself and put them on a disc.


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

I've ease my way into watching Benoit again after 6 years because I had to see those Smackdown Six matches in late 2002 so I started with these matches.

(2002 11 07) SD - Edge & Mysterio vs Angle & Benoit 2-3 Falls ****1/4
(2002 12 05) SD - Angle vs Guerrero vs Edge vs Benoit ****
(No Mercy 02) - Edge & Mysterio vs Angle & Benoit ****1/2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't remember anything from the Angle/Edge/Benoit/Guerrero Fatal 4-Way apart from Angle being the winner (which is annoying :side, but Bangle/Redge from No Mercy I'd give ***1/2 and the 2 out of 3 falls rematch around either *** or ***1/4. 

I'd say the best Smackdown Six match is the SVS '02 Triple Threat Elimination match. Benoit/Guerrero from Armageddon is a close second. But if anything from 2003 onwards counts as well, Guerrero/Mysterio from June '05 is almost ***** worthy, so it squashes everything else.

If I were to choose the best singles match between all pairings:
Benoit and Eddie: Vengeance '03 (****1/2)
Benoit and Chavo: Armageddon '06 (***1/4)
Benoit and Rey: Smackdown October '02 - only one I know (***1/2)
Benoit and Edge: Backlash '05 (***3/4)
Benoit and Angle: Backlash '01 (****1/4)
Eddie and Chavo: Royal Rumble '04 - only one I know (*)
Eddie and Rey: Smackdown May '05 (****3/4)
Eddie and Edge: Smackdown No DQ (***1/2)
Eddie and Angle: Smackdown 2 out of 3 falls (***3/4)
Chavo and Rey: The Great American Bash '04 (****)
Chavo and Edge: Don't recall one
Chavo and Angle: Don't recall one - thank God
Edge and Rey: Royal Rumble '08 (***1/2)
Edge and Angle: Judgment Day '02 (***1/4)
Rey and Angle: SummerSlam '02 (***3/4)


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

You know those matches that you adore but you simply forget existed and because of that, you haven't seen in ages ye as soon as you see them mentioned or whatever you MUST watch them again at that very moment? Yeah, *ATF* that's all your list has been doing to me. I completely forgot Punk/Taker ever existed and now I must watch it. I've seen it twice and both times I had it around the **** 1/2 - 3/4 mark, and the third best streak match. MUST WATCH NOW.

The thing I'm most interested to see as you list continues is how many ***** matches you have, seeing as I'm undergoing a project atm to come up with a definitive five star match list for myself. Can you spoil that surprise now or do we have to wait and see?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

"The WWE film crew will be heading to Memphis, Tennessee on July 10th to film extensive interviews with Jerry "The King" Lawler.

The plan is for the crew to follow Lawler around all day, as well as film his independent wrestling match with Scott Steiner at Minglewood Hall.

The belief is this is footage that is being shot for a future WWE DVD release on Lawler, or perhaps a WWE Network special."

Sounds interesting lol .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Flux said:


> You know those matches that you adore but you simply forget existed and because of that, you haven't seen in ages ye as soon as you see them mentioned or whatever you MUST watch them again at that very moment? Yeah, *ATF* that's all your list has been doing to me. I completely forgot Punk/Taker ever existed and now I must watch it. I've seen it twice and both times I had it around the **** 1/2 - 3/4 mark, and the third best streak match. MUST WATCH NOW.
> 
> The thing I'm most interested to see as you list continues is how many ***** matches you have, seeing as I'm undergoing a project atm to come up with a definitive five star match list for myself. *Can you spoil that surprise now or do we have to wait and see?*


Uhh... wait and see. Sorry bro :

I can, however, tell you that I have 11 ***** matches on the list. Don't worry, you'll get one when I get to Part 14, and as soon as I reach Part 15 (The full Top 10), you'll see all the others. And since I'm actually posting Part 13 tonight, you only have to wait till around tomorrow or aftertomorrow to see them all 

Since this list was a help for you, can I ask you what other matches have I helped you on remembering so I can say "you're welcome" regarding them? Because you're welcome


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Scott Steiner and Jerry Lawler wrestling in 2014? By golly, I'm not sure if I really want to watch that match, or if I really don't want to see a second of it.

Eddie and Chavo had a match at a WCW PPV that was better than their Royal Rumble thing. Chavo and Angle had a not terrible match in TNA in 2012. Chavo and Edge had a short but decent match in 2002.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope they get to cut a promo before the match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN LIST










Latest part: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36313977-post2599.html

PART 13
(60-41)

#60: Edge vs. Mick Foley, WrestleMania 22









#59: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004









#58: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002









#57: Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WrestleMania 21









#56: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 13: Final Four









#55: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Vengeance 2003









#54: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005









#53: John Cena vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007









#52: Chris Benoit vs. Finlay, Judgment Day 2006









#51: Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000









#50: The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WrestleMania 16









#49: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Seasons Beatings









#48: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, SummerSlam 1994









#47: Londrick vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor, Armageddon 2006









#46: Edge vs. Matt Hardy, Unforgiven 2005









#45: Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, SummerSlam 2000









#44: The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002









#43: Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2003









#42: Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995









#41: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio, The Bash 2009








*​


Spoiler: Updated list



*(*)*
#303: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#302: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#301: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#300: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#299: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#298: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#297: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#296: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#295: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#294: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#293: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#292: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#291: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#290: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#289: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#288: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#287: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#286: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#285: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#284: Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#158: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#157: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#156: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#155: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#154: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#153: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#152: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#151: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#150: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#149: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#148: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#147: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#146: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#145: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#144: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#143: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#142: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#141: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004
#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#129: Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank 2014
#128: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#127: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#126: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#125: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#124: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#123: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#122: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#121: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#120: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996
*(****1/4)*
#119: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27
#118: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
#117: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008
#116: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014
#115: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
#114: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011
#113: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
#112: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011
#111: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
#110: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
#109: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
#108: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
#107: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008
#106: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006
#105: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012
#104: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012
#103: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008
#102: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999
#101: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
#100: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
#99: Dean Ambrose vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango, Money In The Bank 2013
#98: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
#97: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1998
#96: Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
#95: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009
#94: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2001
#93: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, No Mercy 1999
#92: Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
#91: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009
#90: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#89: Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
#88: Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010
#87: The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, SummerSlam 1989
#86: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2001
#85: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal, No Mercy 2006
#84: The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers, Royal Rumble 1994
#83: The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
#82: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Judgment Day 2005
#81: The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997
#80: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T, Survivor Series 2002
#79: The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Battleground 2013
#78: The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules 2014
#77: Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio, Payback 2013
#76: The Rockers vs. The Orient Express, Royal Rumble 1991
#75: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, Royal Rumble 1995
#74: Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
#73: Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
#72: Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8
#71: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007
*(****1/2)*
#70: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010
#69: Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 24
#68: Batista vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 23
#67: The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
#66: Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2003
#65: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1988
#64: Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, One Night Only 1997
#63: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
#62: Edge vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre, Elimination Chamber 2011
#61: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29
#60: Edge vs. Mick Foley, WrestleMania 22
#59: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004
#58: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002
#57: Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WrestleMania 21
#56: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 13: Final Four
#55: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Vengeance 2003
#54: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005
#53: John Cena vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007
#52: Chris Benoit vs. Finlay, Judgment Day 2006
#51: Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000
#50: The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WrestleMania 16
#49: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Seasons Beatings
#48: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, SummerSlam 1994
#47: Londrick vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor, Armageddon 2006
#46: Edge vs. Matt Hardy, Unforgiven 2005
#45: Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, SummerSlam 2000
#44: The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002
#43: Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2003
#42: Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
#41: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio, The Bash 2009


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> Uhh... wait and see. Sorry bro
> 
> I can, however, tell you that I have 11 ***** matches on the list. Don't worry, you'll get one when I get to Part 14, and as soon as I reach Part 15 (The full Top 10), you'll see all the others. And since I'm actually posting Part 13 tonight, you only have to wait till around tomorrow or aftertomorrow to see them all
> 
> Since this list was a help for you, can I ask you what other matches have I helped you on remembering so I can say "you're welcome" regarding them? Because you're welcome




A lot of them I forgot existed tbh, but I'll list the ones towards the end, the higher rated ones so from **** up

The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette
CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz
Steve Austin vs. The Rock @ Backlash
The Hart Foundation vs. The Brainbusters (I've actually never seen this before)
The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers
Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff

They're the ones from the **** point that probably haven't even crossed my mind in months. Before that though, there's ones like Austin/Vega, Funk/Cassidy, FlairTista/BenoitRegal etc. Like... Matches you wouldn't call GEMS because they're pretty well known, but matches you just wouldn't normally think about or suggest to someone unless you've stumbled across them recently. If SKINS or Chris came in here and asked for a suggestion, there's 1001 other matches I'd throw out there before Funk/Cassidy just because I haven't even thought about it for years, but in actual fact Funk/Cassidy would be a better match than 50% of what I would have suggested anyway, lol.

Does that make sense? :lol That's my point

Edit: Another installment :homer2


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Indeed. I woke up this morning with a fever of 102 (fucking awesome way to spend my 4th of July) and after I finished the 3 matches that were plugged to me last night, I started looking through Andrews list and found so many great matches I haven't seen in ages. I'm gonna watch the Austin/Vega strap match now. Austin always talks about that match on his podcast and how stiff it was. He said he was pretty out of shape when he got in the WWE and the best thing Vince did for him was put him with Savio because Savio had great cardio apparently and loved to try and blow Austin up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I appreciate that my list served a purpose other than personal entertainment, which was something I was attempting to achieve and apparently I succeded. You're much welcome 

Funk/Cassidy was one of those matches that I seriously didn't see coming despite it's a generally known match. I expected that IYH show (It's Time) to be crappy, but turns out, it was actually pretty damn good. Taker/Gordy may be quite all-over-the-place, but I had SO, SO much fun with it. HHH/Mero was also decent. But yeah, Funk/Cassidy is easily the most must-see match of that show.

Also, you haven't watched Harts/Busters from SS '89 yet? Go do it asap, if you're a fan of old school tag team wrestling with incredible heel work by Arn and Tully (and the Foundation meshes amazingly well with them), you'll cum over it.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Looking for some match suggestions from the IYH PPVs, if anyone can help. I started watching in '98, so I missed all of those.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saturday Night's Main Event starts airing monday night on the Network! :mark:

Sheamus and Del Rio just had a really good U.S. Title match on Smackdown. Some fucking silky smooth counters but there was a really strange moment where Del Rio hit a backstabber on the ring apron, so he's pretty much giving himself one in the process.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I enjoyed Ambrose vs. Orton a lot. Maybe it's cause I'm a big Ambrose mark and I love Orton as a worker, so that could be a factor in it, but yeah, I liked it. I hope they get a chance to work a 20 minute match on PPV sometime this year and show more.

Sheamus/ADR was better than their previous battles but it was still hard for me to hold interest because both characters are so bland. I just want to say that the backstabber on the apron was the dumbest spot I can remember recently. Wouldn't that hurt ADR more since his back is taking the impact on the apron, the hardest part of the ring?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

RATED-RKO1991 said:


> Looking for some match suggestions from the IYH PPVs, if anyone can help. I started watching in '98, so I missed all of those.


Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett from IYH II: The Lumberjacks
Bret Hart vs. Hakushi from IYH I
Bret Hart vs. Jean Pierre Lafitte from IYH III
Bret Hart vs. British Bulldog from IYH V: Seasons Beatings
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel from IYH VII: Good Friends, Better Enemies
Shawn Michaels vs. Mick Foley from IYH X: Mind Games
Bret Hart vs. Vader vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin from IYH XIII: Final Four
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin: IYH XIV: Revenge of the Taker
Hart Foundation vs. Team Austin from IYH XVI: Canadian Stampede (!!!)
Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell) from IYH XVIII: Badd Blood
The Rock vs. Mick Foley (Last Man Standing) from IYH: XXVII: St. Valentine's Day Massacre 

Those are the ones that I can remember off the top of my head, that are really good. Basically, IYH tended to be the Bret and Shawn show in the early days.


I think that people are also high on these matches, but I don't really remember them much, so that's why I didn't include them:

Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker from IYH XVII: Ground Zero
Mankind vs. Undertaker (Buried Alive Match) from IYH XI: Buried Alive
Mankind vs. Undertaker from IYH: XIV: Revenge of the Taker
Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega (Strap Match) from IYH 8: Beware of Dog



ETA:


Arm-Bar1004 said:


> Let's not forget the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker HIAC from Badd Blood (IYH XXIII I think).


Ah, yes. I forgot that was an IYH match. Added it, thanks.


----------



## Arm-Bar1004 (Mar 7, 2012)

Let's not forget the Shawn Michaels/Undertaker HIAC from Badd Blood (IYH XXIII I think). I still don't see why they don't just replace the Battleground and Payback ppvs with IYH. Ends up being the same thing. The final four match was way better than I thought it was going to be.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Better than recommending a match, just go watch all of Canadian Stampede if you can. It's a really fun show.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Owen/Yoko v. Luger/Bulldog is one of my favourite In Your House tag team matches in WWF history. Austin v. Savio Vega strap match is phenomenal and likely close to a top 5 for IYH if I were to bother thinking of one. The best Michaels/Owen match is from an IYH too, IIRC.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the HIAC IYH reminder. I forgot that happened at IYH.




Yeah1993 said:


> Owen/Yoko v. Luger/Bulldog is one of my favourite In Your House tag team matches in WWF history. Austin v. Savio Vega strap match is phenomenal and likely close to a top 5 for IYH if I were to bother thinking of one. The best Michaels/Owen match is from an IYH too, IIRC.


Yeah, the Savio/Austin Strap match was another one of those matches that I don't really remember, and have been meaning to watch. You're right, I've only heard good things about it. Meant to write that match in my post. Just did.

Why do I never hear about that Owen/Shawn match? Sounds like a good combination, and I see that Meltzer gave it ****. Definitely have to watch that. 

I'll have to check that tag match out too, though on paper, it doesn't sound too phenomenal, lol.

Wasn't IYH the PPV they did the most crazy gimmicks for? I vaguely recall some baby bottle match, and I remember liking that HHH/Goodwin Hog Pen match as a kid. :lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels/Sid/Johnson v. Vader/Owen/Bulldog is another really good IYH match, forgot that one. 


HOLD ON I FORGOT VADER/SHARMROCK WHY DID I FORGET VADER/SHAMROCK


WAIT has no one mentioned Austin/Dude Love from Over the Edge? One of the best WWE matches of all time.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

I loved the Austin/Dude Love feud. Austin's first title feud after XIV. Unforgiven match was good but the Over the Edge match was even better with Vince as ref and the odds were just stacked.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RATED-RKO1991 said:


> Looking for some match suggestions from the IYH PPVs, if anyone can help. I started watching in '98, so I missed all of those.


I did put together a 'best of' a while ago:





Bret Hart vs Hakushi - WWF In Your House 1
Shawn Michaels vs Jeff Jarrett - WWF In Your House 2
Yokozuna & Owen Hart vs Lex Luger & British Bulldog - WWF In Your House 2
Bret Hart vs Jean Pierre Lafitte - WWF: In Your House 3

Diesel & Shawn Michaels & Yokozuna & Owen Hart (Intercontinental/WWF/Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 3
Dean Douglas vs Razor Ramon (WWF Intercontinental Championship) - WWF In Your House 4
Bret Hart vs British Bulldog (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 5
Razor Ramon & Marty Jannetty vs Sycho Sid & 123 Kid - WWF In Your House 5

Shawn Michaels vs Owen Hart - WWF In Your House 6
Bret Hart vs Diesel (WWF Championship - Steel Cage) - WWF In Your House 6
Shawn Michaels vs Diesel (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies

Vader vs Razor Ramon - WWF: In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
Shawn Michaels vs British Bulldog (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
Steve Austin vs Savio Vega (Carribean Strap Match) - WWF In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog

Vader, British Bulldog & Owen Hart vs Shawn Michaels, Ahmed Johnson & Sycho Sid - WWF: In Your House 9: International Incident
Shawn Michaels vs Mankind - WWF In Your House 10: Mindgames

The Undertaker vs Goldust (Final Curtain Match) - WWF In Your House 10: Mindgames 
The Undertaker vs Mankind - WWF In Your House 11: Buried Alive
Sycho Sid vs Vader - WWF In Your House 11: Buried Alive
Sycho Sid vs Bret Hart (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 12: It's Time

Bret Hart vs Vader vs The Undertaker vs Steve Austin (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 13: Final Four
Doug Furnas & Phil Lafon vs Owen Hart & British Bulldog (WWF Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 13: Final Four
Bret Hart vs Steve Austin - WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker

The Undertaker vs Mankind (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
Vader vs Ken Shamrock (No Holds Barred) - WWF In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
Bret Hart, Owen Hart, Jim Neidhart, British Bulldog & Brian Pillman vs Steve Austin, Ken Shamrock, Goldust & Legion Of Doom - WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede

The Undertaker vs Vader (WWF Championship) - WWF: In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
The Great Sasuke vs Taka Michinoku - WWF In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 17: Ground Zero
Bret Hart vs The Patriot - WWF In Your House 17: Ground Zero

Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (Hell In A Cell) - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood
Bret Hart & British Bulldog vs The Patriot & Vader (Flag Match) - WWF In Your House 18: Badd Blood
Brian Christopher vs Taka Michinoku (WWF Light Heavyweight Championship) - WWF In Your House 19: Degeneration X

Shawn Michaels vs Ken Shamrock (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 19: Degeneration X
Steve Austin, Owen Hart, Cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie Vs Triple H, Road Dogg, Billy Gunn and "mystery partner" - WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out 
Vader vs Kane - WWF In Your House 20: No Way Out

Kane vs The Undertaker (Inferno Match) - WWF In Your House 21: Unforgiven
Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 21: Unforgiven

Steve Austin vs Dude Love (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 22: Over The Edge
Kane & Mankind vs The Undertaker & Steve Austin (WWF Tag Team Championship) - WWF In Your House 23: Fully Loaded

The Rock vs Triple H (WWF Intercontinental Championship - 2/3 Falls) - WWF In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
Ken Shamrock vs The Rock vs Mankind (Cage Match) - WWF In Your House 24: Breakdown

Steve Austin vs Kane vs The Undertaker (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 24: Breakdown
Ken Shamrock vs Mankind (WWF Intercontinental Championship) - WWF In Your House 25: Judgment Day
Kane vs The Undertaker (WWF Championship match) - WWF In Your House 25: Judgment Day

Steve Austin vs The Undertaker (Buried Alive Match) - WWF In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
Steve Austin vs Mr.McMahon (Cage Match) - WWF In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
Mankind vs The Rock (WWF Championship - Last man Standing) - WWF In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre

Steve Austin vs The Rock (WWF Championship) - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash
Ken Shamrock vs The Undertaker - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash
Mankind vs The Big Show (Boiler Room Brawl) - WWF In Your House 28: Backlash


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN LIST










Latest part: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36325713-post2608.html

PART 14
(40-21)

#40: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WrestleMania 19









#39: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992









#38: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over The Limit 2012









#37: Edge, Mick Foley & Lita vs. Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah McGuillicutty, One Night Stand 2006









#36: The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000









#35: Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, Survivor Series 1994









#34: Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, WrestleMania 3









#33: Batista vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2005









#32: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, Royal Rumble 2001









(****3/4)
#31: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho, Fully Loaded 2000









#30: Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Batista, New Year's Revolution 2005









#29: The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, The Legion Of Doom, Goldust & Ken Shamrock, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede









#28: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006









#27: Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack, Backlash 2004









#26: Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield, TLC 2012









#25: CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2013









#24: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Taboo Tuesday 2005









#23: Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004









#22: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber 2014









#21: Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival 2014








*​


Spoiler: Updated and almost finished list



*(*)*
#303: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#302: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#301: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#300: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#299: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#298: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#297: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#296: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#295: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#294: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#293: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#292: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#291: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#290: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#289: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#288: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#287: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#286: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#285: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#284: Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
#283: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#282: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#281: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#280: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#279: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#278: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#277: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#276: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#275: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#274: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#273: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#272: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#271: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#270: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#269: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#268: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#267: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#266: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#265: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#263: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#262: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#261: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#260: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#259: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#258: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#257: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#256: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#255: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#254: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#253: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#252: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#251: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#250: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#249: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#248: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#247: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#246: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#245: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#244: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#243: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#242: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#240: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#239: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#238: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#237: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#236: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#235: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#234: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#233: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#232: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#231: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#230: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#229: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#228: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#227: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#226: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#225: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#224: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#223: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#222: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#221: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#220: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#219: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#218: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#217: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#216: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#215: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#214: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#213: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#212: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#211: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#210: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#209: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#208: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#207: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#206: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#205: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#204: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#203: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#202: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#201: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#200: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#199: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#198: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#197: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#196: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#195: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#194: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#193: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#192: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#191: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#190: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#189: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#188: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#187: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#186: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#185: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#184: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#183: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#182: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#181: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#180: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#179: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#178: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#177: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#176: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#175: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#174: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#173: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#172: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#171: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#170: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#169: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#168: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#167: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#166: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#165: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#164: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#163: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#162: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#161: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#160: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#159: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#158: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#157: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#156: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#155: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#154: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#153: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#152: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#151: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#150: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#149: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#148: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#147: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#146: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#145: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#144: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#143: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#142: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#141: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004
#140: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#139: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#138: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#137: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#136: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#135: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#134: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#132: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#131: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#130: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#129: Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank 2014
#128: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#127: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#126: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#125: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#124: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#123: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#122: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#121: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#120: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996
*(****1/4)*
#119: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27
#118: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
#117: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008
#116: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014
#115: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
#114: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011
#113: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
#112: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011
#111: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
#110: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
#109: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
#108: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
#107: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008
#106: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006
#105: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012
#104: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012
#103: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008
#102: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999
#101: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
#100: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
#99: Dean Ambrose vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango, Money In The Bank 2013
#98: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
#97: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1998
#96: Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
#95: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009
#94: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2001
#93: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, No Mercy 1999
#92: Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
#91: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009
#90: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#89: Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
#88: Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010
#87: The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, SummerSlam 1989
#86: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2001
#85: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal, No Mercy 2006
#84: The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers, Royal Rumble 1994
#83: The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
#82: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Judgment Day 2005
#81: The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997
#80: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T, Survivor Series 2002
#79: The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Battleground 2013
#78: The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules 2014
#77: Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio, Payback 2013
#76: The Rockers vs. The Orient Express, Royal Rumble 1991
#75: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, Royal Rumble 1995
#74: Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
#73: Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
#72: Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8
#71: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007
*(****1/2)*
#70: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010
#69: Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 24
#68: Batista vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 23
#67: The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
#66: Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2003
#65: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1988
#64: Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, One Night Only 1997
#63: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
#62: Edge vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre, Elimination Chamber 2011
#61: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29
#60: Edge vs. Mick Foley, WrestleMania 22
#59: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004
#58: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002
#57: Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WrestleMania 21
#56: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 13: Final Four
#55: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Vengeance 2003
#54: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005
#53: John Cena vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007
#52: Chris Benoit vs. Finlay, Judgment Day 2006
#51: Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000
#50: The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WrestleMania 16
#49: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Seasons Beatings
#48: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, SummerSlam 1994
#47: Londrick vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor, Armageddon 2006
#46: Edge vs. Matt Hardy, Unforgiven 2005
#45: Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, SummerSlam 2000
#44: The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002
#43: Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2003
#42: Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
#41: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio, The Bash 2009
#40: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WrestleMania 19
#39: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992
#38: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over The Limit 2012
#37: Edge, Mick Foley & Lita vs. Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah McGuillicutty, One Night Stand 2006
#36: The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000
#35: Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, Survivor Series 1994
#34: Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, WrestleMania 3
#33: Batista vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2005
#32: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, Royal Rumble 2001
*(****3/4)*
#31: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho, Fully Loaded 2000
#30: Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Batista, New Year's Revolution 2005
#29: The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, The Legion Of Doom, Goldust & Ken Shamrock, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
#28: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006
#27: Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack, Backlash 2004
#26: Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield, TLC 2012
#25: CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2013
#24: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Taboo Tuesday 2005
#23: Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004
#22: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber 2014
#21: Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival 2014


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Figured Savage/Steamboat would be lower given your not VERY high opinion of it, ATF. List is great so far, good job.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching WCW Great American Bash 1996. Probably one the top PPVs imo.

Fire & Ice/Steiner Brothers is a really good opener, stiff and power move style match, apart from the bad looking botched frankensteiner at the end.

Malenko/Mysterio is fucking excellent, loved it. Just onto Sting/Regal atm.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Sting/Regal :mark:. One of the best Sting matches and he does bugger all in it :lmao.

Ha, just watched Sting get beat down by the Filthy Animals. LOLOLOL.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Havn't watched Sting/Regal in ages and forgot how fucking great it really is, it's the Regal show for sure, he is bloody marvellous, Sting played his part in terms of character, but Regal was the fucking master in this. 

**** easy, maybe another 1/4 too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao oh man this WCW show.

Right, so at HH 99, Flair lost to DDP in a strap match. DDP beat down Flair, then left him for the Filthy Animals.

The Filthy Animals beat down Flair and buried him in the dessert.

Goldberg beat Sid by busting him open so bad the referee stopped the match.

Sting beat Hogan for the WCW title when Hogan laid down for him.

Sting wasn't happy with the match and wanted a FIGHT. Goldberg comes out, beats him, and thinks he's the WCW champ but the title wasn't on the line.

Nitro the night after, Sting comes out demanding his title. JJ Dillon says Goldberg is indeed NOT the champion. And neither is Sting. Because. Ummm. TOURNAMENT~!

DDP has a tournament match. David Flair attacks him with a crowbar as revenge for his dad.

Next week (the one I'm watching), Kimberly quits the Nitro Girls because she has something else to take care of.

The Filthy Animals attack Sting with his own baseball bat during a match. Why? Because.

Benoit Vs Malenko in a steel cage. Benoit wins, but the Revolution come in and handcuff Benoit to the cage and beat him up. The Filthy Animals, who are feuding with Revolution, make the save. Until David Flair shows up and beats them down with a crowbar as revenge for his dad. Konnan escapes, but Sting attacks him from behind.

David Flair leaves the arena, and as he's in the parking lot he gets run over. Kimberly steps out and stares at him, then leaves.

AND THIS IS ONLY HALF THE SHIT THAT IS HAPPENING :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh my God. I can't believe it, but I actually forgot about *WRESTLEMANIA 28* in my list. :lmao

Then again, I've went a little down on Taker/Trips and it's pretty much on the same level as Punk/Jericho to me, so it's hard to pick one out of the two. The HIAC is storytelling near-perfection (would've remained ****3/4 for me if HBK wasn't such a terrible actor, however he does get his point across so there's that), and so is Punk/Jericho. Dammit. I guess we're gonna have to wait until later tonight for PART 15 to find out which one I choose 8*D

Oh and yeah, I've went and rewatched Savage/Steamboat and it deserves to go higher than I had it. I still don't think it's the greatest match of all time or a ***** classic or anything, but fuck me, that was one of the most beautifully and organically choreographed matches arguably in WWE history. Arguably.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> :lmao oh man this WCW show.
> 
> Right, so at HH 99, Flair lost to DDP in a strap match. DDP beat down Flair, then left him for the Filthy Animals.
> 
> ...


Wait, what? So are Revolution babyfaces? Because if they were why would they be acting like heels to Benoit, but from everything else I get that Filthy Animals are heels so why are they making the save like babyfaces? That paragraph makes absolutely no sense. Fuck, I'm glad I didn't put up with convoluted stuff like that when I was younger. My brain would have been fried.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Bubz said:


> Wait, what? So are Revolution babyfaces? Because if they were why would they be acting like heels to Benoit, but from everything else I get that Filthy Animals are heels so why are they making the save like babyfaces? That paragraph makes absolutely no sense. Fuck, I'm glad I didn't put up with convoluted stuff like that when I was younger. My brain would have been fried.


I genuinely have no idea who is face and heel. Everyone seems to be a SHADE OF GREY :side:. Fucking Russo, man.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey Cal, are you actually going to do those video End of the Year thoughts I suggested to you a while ago? (And if yes, will you go through 00, 01 and 02 as well?)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I probably will do, and will start at 00 as well. Right now I'm scripting out 10 episodes of a show so I can record them all at once because I can't plan ahead of time when I'm gonna be able to record anything these days .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Havent seen Hart/Backlund svs 94 in ages, but remember not liking it. Interested to see what is else left to come when you have Punk/Lesnar/Eddie/JBL alittle low IMO
~~~~
Almost died twice last night (MERICA day, dont drink kids :hbk} going to try and watch some of this stuff to rejuvenate myself right now


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> I genuinely have no idea who is face and heel. Everyone seems to be a SHADE OF GREY :side:. Fucking Russo, man.


I watched two interviews from Nash and Goldberg a week apart on Thunder, as part of the build for the New Blood Rising three way with Steiner. Russo shooty-nonsense at its finest.



> Nash talks about 'popping the territory' with Scott Hall, says it's nice they 'gave Booker the belt', talks about Goldberg having no respect for the business and not paying his dues, then the absolute pinnacle, says "at the PPV, I am going over. I don't care what happens in the booking meetings, I am going over". Just the dirt worst.


And the kicker?

Goldberg's shoot interview was even worse!



> "So Bill, these past couple of months you've been ASKED TO THE PLAY THE HEEL. And everyone knows that's not something you're comfortable with". Genuine start to the interview and I was speechless.


Then Goldberg talks about 'Hey Kev, two weeks after you put yourself on the booking committee, you were the first guy to beat me. You're a clever guy, aren't you Kev?'. Just putrid, embarrassing and mindless nonsense that exposes the industry and makes it so stupid how the rest of the show is treated within kayfabe, but then moments like these are treated as part of the show.

And of course the NBR three way would then see the infamous incident where Goldberg walks out of the match when Nash has him in the Jacknife position, leading to Schiavone and Madden talking about 'Goldberg refusing to follow the script, what about the planned finish? Are Nash and Steiner going to have to improvise a finish?'. Ugggh.

Then we get the pathetic commercial hyping Goldberg/Steiner at Fallbrawl, talking about how 'last month Goldberg refused to follow the script, but now when there is no script, and everything is real, what will unfold? REAL VIOLENCE at Fallbrawl!'

Give me every mundane, boring and abject WWE storyline since they went PG over that Russo shit any day of the week. He struck gold with Vince as a promoter to protect the likes of Austin and Rock from random heel turns, but everything he's done after WWE has exposed him for the clueless buffoon he is. For a man labelled a genius, most of his ideas involving recreating Montreal or The NWO. His product can be surmised as random face/heel turns for short term gain, endless shoot promos, repeated violence against women and sub five minute matches with constant interference. WCW's entire history saw them as the wrestling promotion, and Russo was too blind to accept that and imposed his own WWE vision onto a fanbase that wanted more wrestling and less bullshit. Then he has Mysterio go heel (do I even need to point out how taking a guy as short as Rey and as beloved/athletic as he was and try to get an audience to boo him is?), has the Cruiserweight title be won on two separate occasions by a woman (Madusa & Daffney), has Madusa vs Oklahoma as an actual Cruiserweight PPV match and even instigates a storyline in which all faces and heels bar two or three people are turned in the space of one evening, with complete disregard for the characters that had been built up.

He's a fucking moron and bar the initial rise of the Attitude Era I can't think of one star he made, or what spike in business he injected. WCW PPVs were being doubled by ECW PPVs in some cases under his tenure (tbf Nash himself killed a lot of WCW with his booking stint), attendance was abysmal outside of the Australian tour and a few other select venues, the ratings were still fairly strong albeit a farcry from their prime, but most importantly nobody was being made as a star. I'm not even going to touch his TNA tenure, because that's an even bigger colossal failure in terms of making a star and having any discernable impact on business. He thinks ratings are the only indictment of a successful product, and is blind to how his writing and booking kills PPVs and can't make stars unless he's got a promoter as smart as Vince who knows when to protect guys like Austin and Rock from programs/turns that would kill their character.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

While you're still here WOOLCOCK, please tell me that you've reviewed the 51st Anniversary Sangre Chicana/MS-1 match. I've watched it multiple times, but I just don't see what's so special about it. It's as if they forgot about what made their match a year prior so incredible. Instead of another war, we got something closer to a "competitive" wrestling match with anti-climatic finishes. What (if anything) went wrong?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The '84 match? Don't recall watching it, and if I have that probably speaks as to my thoughts on it. I'm not all at clued into the backstage workings of the Lucha scene, so I have no idea if there was backstage issues to speak of, so could only judge it purely on the work in the ring. I've always heard it described as being unable to match the '83 encounter (no surprise with how outstanding that was). I might give it a watch though, since Chicana is such a captivating performer and for my own peace of mind I'd like to see the rematch.

Watch Chicana/Perro Aguayo Hair vs Hair from 2/28/86 though if you want something approaching Chicana/MS-1 '83. I might even say it's better but I'm not absolutely convinced. The '83 match pretty much hooked me on Lucha and is forever a transcendent match, so I might be compelled to always rank it higher from a personal standpoint. But the '86 match might be an even better Chicana performance, Perro is sensational, the brawling and drama is magnificent and the build throughout each fall is mesmerising. It's on youtube as well, which is a bonus.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That whole "Goldberg refused to follow the script" crap was just fucking awful. AWFUL. I'm all for "shoots" in wrestling at times. Punk's shoot was awesome and didn't EXPOSE THE BUSINESS any more than what was already exposed (the promos afterwards where he kept calling HHH "Paul" were awful though lol)... but that shit in 99/00 was just urgh. HEY EVERYONE THESE GUYS AREN'T DOING WHAT THE SCRIPT TELLS THEM TO OMG THIS WHOLE THING IS ACTUALLY FAKE LOLOL WHY YOU BEEN WATCHING ALL THESE YEARS? BUT NOW GOLDBERG ISN'T DOING AS HE'S TOLD SO EVERYTHING HE DOES IS REAL. BUT EVERYONE ELSE ON THE SHOW IS FAKE. EXCEPT TANK ABBOT HE'S REAL BECAUSE HE WAS IN UFC.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

I think real life issues can be used for storyline purposes, especially if the people involved are genuinly working and are using what is widely reported to convince the audience it's actually legit. The growth of the internet and people like Meltzer revealing backstage secrets means the audience are easier to work than ever before. Stuff like Matt/Edge and Punk/Hardy are good examples of using real life issues to further a storyline and leave the audience intrigued as to how much is a work and how much is genuine grievances being aired. Didn't Punk say people legit thought he despised Hardy given his straight edge outlook and the nature of the promos? And then Jeff had to basically say they had an amicable working relationship and it was pure storyline?

Even Punk's pipebomb promo I thought was a clever nod to adults/people who knew of certain tropes he touched on (people like Punk being discriminated against, WWE needing Vince to leave to be good again, Heyman seeing something in him that the others refused/couldn't see, too many corporate shills to support Vince in his endeavours), yet if you were a kid watching it an adult could still feasibly explain it in kayfabe terms. Punk talking about being disliked is easy based on him being a heel for years. It was no different than say a heel Diva cutting a promo on Maria/Ashley posing for Playboy and accusing them of being in favour with execs. Pure storyline that probably only becomes 'a shoot' if the face Diva has a reputation on the internet.

The Russo garbage was just too far though. Openly referring to 'the writers in the back', bookers, playing a heel, Russo saying 'this is the part of the show where I'm supposed to play a chickenshit heel' etc. It's just lacking in subtlety and confuses an audience because kids won't know what's being said and adults who do know will be embarrassed by it. They had the right idea when Shane Douglas cut a promo recapping his hatred of Flair, but far too often they were just openly breaking kayfabe in a manner that was obviously real, and it just made the business and everyone involved look like shit. Madden and Schiavone talking about improvising a finish, yet call the rest of the PPV within kayfabe. Just bemusing and nonsensical.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Also on the last Nitro I watched, Kevin Nash is dressed up like "Vince McMahon" (quotes because fuck me I have no idea outside of the suit how on earth he's supposed to look like Vince lol) calling himself THE PROMOTER and saying shit like "If Sid gets screwed tonight, it won't be me that screwed Sid, SID will have screwed Sid" and then winks to the camera (he did this a couple of times with different things). I'm sitting watching it all and just wondering... what's the POINT? Where do they go storyline wise with this? 

Meanwhile the WWF shows are pretty damn FUN with some great matches every week, quite literally the week after Russo left for WCW :lmao. Still some DUMB shit too, but overall mostly fun and the beginning of my fav year in 2000.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

WWF references were terrible under Nash's booking tenure, but Russo again turned it up a notch. Ric Flair once tried to convince David Flair to come back to him and grow up and he could 'get him a job up in Stamford'. Yes, Flair actually used getting his son a gig in WWF as reason for him to stop fighting with him. Oklahoma was obviously an embarrassing shot at JR, you had Russo and Jarrett target JR in a promo for 'not seeing potential in Jarrett' (yeah JR really missed the boat on 'ol Double J). The whole thing was too obviously self-aware and winking to the audience, and it was just laughable. They literally promoted WWF as well as they could and more often than not referred to it as the better show. Just putrid stuff.

I read somewhere as well that WCW once did a survey either during Russo's first stint or before he returned in April of '00. The idea was to get an understanding of what the fans wanted to see. Unsurprisingly, more wrestling and less soap opera angles was the universal demand. It still tickles me that people cite Russo as a genius, because surely someone that smart would understand how writing for WCW differed from WWF at the time. WCW fans wanted wrestling, and Russo's sub five minute efforts and emphasis on talking and backstage segments was entirely the opposite of what the audience desired. Again, it's him instilling the only way he knows how to write despite it being counter-productive to a different company he's now working in.

Abysmal stuff and I outright consider '99-'00 WCW to be amongst the worst run of any wrestling company. Endlessly shit wrestling matches, with only a handful of promising matches, embarrassing gimmicks, storylines, a stacked roster pathetically used, gimmick matches devaluing PPVs by giving away so much on TV, just horrendous. Not even mentioning Russo's comedic wit, featuring such gems as 'Creative Control', 'Hugh E Rection', 'Major Gunns', 'Private Stash', 'Lieutenant Loco' (BECAUSE CHAVO IS MEXICAN HYUCK HYUCK HYUCK).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

:lmao @ WCW in its dying years.

I read through Cal's "breakdown" of the storylines and could not understand a thing about what's going on. 

Then I read WC's post which brings up an interview ON THE SHOW where they flat out ask Goldberg about refusing to play a heel character... :lmao

I remember this interview with Russo where he defends himself regarding WCW going out of business by saying he only wrote for them 9 months. If he's responsible for all this kayfabe breaking shit, then he damn sure better bear the responsibility for killing the company!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought WCW in the first half of '99 was alright lol, pardon the Fingerpoke Of Doom of course, went to shit after around July imo. 

Mind you, when I start watching the old Nitro's, ill probably stop towards the end of '98.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, WCW 2000 did gave us JUDY BAGWELL ON A POLE. So there's that. 8*D

Well I watched Smackdown for shits and kicks, and there were two good matches worth talking about: Sheamus/ADR and Orton/Ambrose. The first of which started out kinda uninteresting, but started to pick up by the middle, and had a really hot finishing stretch with some really cool but also organic and natural counters along the way. The latter had Ambrose selling an injured limb (in this case the shoulder) and Orton relentlessly assaulting it. What can you not like from that? Well, apart from the slow pace that was expected from an Orton match anyway. Ambrose attacking Rollins was the best part though. And I also liked the Jericho/Wyatts/Miz segment (they sold me on their match on Monday in MONTREAL BIATCHES), the Cesaro/Big E brawl and the Swagger/Colter/Rusev/Lana segment which was kinda a copy-paste from Raw though. Good show. Bringing the NXT writers for SD was a good move it seems.

In a few hours time, it's Part 15 time - *the final part of my list.* PREPARE FOR THE EPICNESS.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I completely agree. That's why Punks Pipebomb promo was awesome. He was "shooting", in the sense that he gave subtle acknowledgements to backstage politics holding him back and how Vince surrounds himself with glad handing, douche bag yes men. But he NEVER veered into all out breaking kayfabe and insulting the audiences intelligence. That's why I was so disgusted/annoyed with the WCW stuff in the Russo era, he was out and out insulting the audience. We know it's a scripted show. We know it's not a legitimate athletic contest. But in the same regard, we don't tune into wrestling to be reminded that it's a work. We tune in for those indelible moments where we can truly suspend our disbelief and become immersed in the story the wrestlers are telling in the ring. Atleast that's why I love wrestling. I've even gotten my girlfriend to appreciate/enjoy it, and she's one of those people who thought I was a goof for watching "fake fighting". Once I explained the whole idea behind wrestling, and was able to show her how difficult and physical wrestling matches are, she really gained an appreciation for it. I was showing her clips of Austin vs McMahon this morning and she was totally into it. In 1998-1999, most fans were well aware of how wrestling worked in general, but that didn't stop us from getting giddy as school girls when we saw something like Austin diving off the Zamboni trying to put a beat down on Vince.

So yea, I'd take the current watered down PG product over 1999-2001 WCW any day, from a storyline stand point. One thing I would love to see WWE do though is try to make it seem more like an athletic contest. Bring back time limits in matches so there can be occasional draws, stop having JBL say on commentary "boy is this guy fun to watch, he's so entertaining", stuff like that. Don't call wrestlers entertainers or performers, call them wrestlers cause that's what they are. The more you make it seem like what we are watching is legitimate, even though we know it's not, the easier it is for fans to become immersed in the story you are trying to tell.

That's just my .02


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WOOLCOCK said:


> WWF references were terrible under Nash's booking tenure, but Russo again turned it up a notch. Ric Flair once tried to convince David Flair to come back to him and grow up and he could 'get him a job up in Stamford'. Yes, Flair actually used getting his son a gig in WWF as reason for him to stop fighting with him. Oklahoma was obviously an embarrassing shot at JR, you had Russo and Jarrett target JR in a promo for 'not seeing potential in Jarrett' (yeah JR really missed the boat on 'ol Double J). The whole thing was too obviously self-aware and winking to the audience, and it was just laughable. They literally promoted WWF as well as they could and more often than not referred to it as the better show. Just putrid stuff.
> 
> I read somewhere as well that WCW once did a survey either during Russo's first stint or before he returned in April of '00. The idea was to get an understanding of what the fans wanted to see. Unsurprisingly, more wrestling and less soap opera angles was the universal demand. It still tickles me that people cite Russo as a genius, because surely someone that smart would understand how writing for WCW differed from WWF at the time. WCW fans wanted wrestling, and Russo's sub five minute efforts and emphasis on talking and backstage segments was entirely the opposite of what the audience desired. Again, it's him instilling the only way he knows how to write despite it being counter-productive to a different company he's now working in.
> 
> Abysmal stuff and I outright consider '99-'00 WCW to be amongst the worst run of any wrestling company. Endlessly shit wrestling matches, with only a handful of promising matches, embarrassing gimmicks, storylines, a stacked roster pathetically used, gimmick matches devaluing PPVs by giving away so much on TV, just horrendous. Not even mentioning Russo's comedic wit, featuring such gems as 'Creative Control', 'Hugh E Rection', 'Major Gunns', 'Private Stash', 'Lieutenant Loco' (BECAUSE CHAVO IS MEXICAN HYUCK HYUCK HYUCK).


You mentioned the fans wanting wrestling, and fuck me they were completely into a few of the matches on the show, like Eddie Vs Saturn and Benoit Vs Malenko cage match. But fuck me, the commentary. Half the time shit is going on and they are completely ignoring it because they need to tell fans that LATER ON KEVIN NASH WILL COME OUT AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE IT SOUNDS LIKE SOMEONE WE KNOW WINK WINK. Someone came down and attacked a guy before a match and the commentators ignored it until they finished talking about shit for later on in the show. A match ENDED and they didn't acknowledge it because KEVIN NASH IS GONNA BE IMPERSONATING SOMEONE LATER ON TONIGHT. Feel sorry for The Brain who is still on commentary at this time.

Also, them constantly referring to Russo and Ferrera as "the powers to be" is the dumbest thing ever. Shouldn't it be "the powers THAT be"?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Someone at another forum actually reviewed WCW from the January 4th 1999 episode of Nitro (Fingerpoke of Doom) up until the last show in March 2001. It truly is one of the best reads, becuase he spares no punches and you really get an understanding for just how truly hopeless that company was.

Nash in fairness from January of '99 up until Russo takes over was truly horrendous going by the reviews. Cringey comedy, shoot references, poor gimmicks, cruiserweight matches being interrupted by the likes of Savage and Sid to beat them up etc. Savage/Nash sounds like one of the worst main event programs in wrestling history. He pretty much killed the cruiserweights in terms of barely promoting them, although in fairness he did at least push Rey and co as the main stars, whereas Russo gave the belt to two women. Again, belts are fake so what does it matter right? Awful.

Russo's first stint is truly horrible, and again building to another NWO rehash and recreating Montreal is pretty much his best idea of giving WCW momentum again. The main event scene is truly pathetic, the undercard is littered with shit gimmicks and recurring shoot nonsense. Characters are dropped on a whim, matches get no time before bullshit interference. Truly pathetic.

Russo's second tenure though, from April-October '00 really does sound horrendous. The Millionaire Club angle where Russo basically turns all faces heel, and all heels face outside of Sting and DDP is bizarre. Someone like Luger, who by all accounts got a chickenshit heel character over, becomes face on a whim because Russo and WCW really believed Hogan, Sid, Luger etc would be cheered over Rey, Benoit, Eddie, Goldberg etc. Sting/Vampiro might be the worst feud ever judging by the promos, matches and segments. Arquette and Russo both being WCW champion, no explanation needed. A swerve angle with DDP being betrayed on 3 straight PPVs. Endless bait and switch swerves on a weekly basis. That horrid 5 week stretch where Jarrett wins and loses the belt about 3 times. Sting winning and losing the WCW title in one night. The Ric Flair vs David Flair/Russo feud. Oklahoma. Rey being a heel. JUST WHY. And Goldberg going heel. Because if that's what WCW needed, it was to turn their only young and homegrown star heel, coming after he never got revenge for Starrcade '98 and was constantly booked to shit, killing his appeal and drawing ability despite remaining by far their most over guy. DDP sounds like the sole bright spot based on the reviews, as he apparently works hard and actually produces some strong matches.

The link is here if anyone is interested, it really does exemplify not only how much talent they still had even during '00, but just how inept the entire organisation was. The guy having to make a 'woman abuse of the week', 'title change of the week' and 'shooty-nonsense of the week' series during Russo's tenure always makes me laugh. There's something like 40 instances of a woman being abused or treated like a whore during that tenure. Russo really does have some bizarre views of women.

http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/19237-wcws-highway-to-hell/


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WCW in 2001 was pretty fun for the most part at least . THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN were amusing and they were trying (seemingly) to rebuild the tag and CW divisions with Chavo (for some reason :side being booked as a strong heel champion, Yung Dragons, 3 Count, Noble & Courageous essentially trying to be WCW's version of Dudleys/Hardys/E&C etc. STEINER being badass.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Yeah the guy who did the reviews didn't fall in love with November '00-'01, but I think he at least said it was acceptable and at least trying to rediscover its identity after Nash and Russo's tenure the past 18 months. The cruiserweight deal sounds like they finally realised even in '01 it was still their clear edge over WWF in terms of being able to showcase talent WWF couldn't.

Also forget to mention three brilliant WCW moments for all the wrong reasons:

1) Giving La Parka subtitles. Seriously, fucking abysmal.

2) Having Liger drop the IWGP Junior belt to Juvie via a bottle shot on free TV with no build. Russo was stupid enough to piss away a working relationship with New Japan (ok, WCW folded not too long after but theoretically had they survived he killed any chance of cross promotion/access to their talent) because of his idiocy and lack of respect for what the title meant.

3) Tank Abbott pulling a knife on his opponent during a PPV and the most awkward camera cut ever as Schiavone can audibly be heard saying 'wait, does he have a knife?'

What a fucking circus.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was it the USA or FOX broadcasts of Raw in '99 that were 'censored'?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think the next Nitro episode is the one with the infamous "You're half the man that I am, and I have half the brain that you do" promo :lmao. People rip on Sid for that but he was just being a company guy and doing what Russo asked him to :lmao. Technically the promo DOES make sense (He's addressing Hall and Nash, saying that combined they are only half the man he is while he only has 1 brain compared to the 2 of them), but fuck me it's just... :lmao.



The Fab Four said:


> Was it the USA or FOX broadcasts of Raw in '99 that were 'censored'?


Fox I does believe. Watched a couple from Fox recordings and they bleeped a lot of stuff.

Edit: As I said that, the USA show I'm watching now just censored "asshole" so fuck knows .


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh man, there's a Russo thread now asking if he should be brought back.

Talk of how he'd push internet darlings. Because Rey, Eddie, Benoit, Malenko, Goldberg and many others were treated so well under his WCW tenure?

I can't even fathom how people think he'd improve it. He's only ever done Crash TV, so I can't even believe he could work within the parameters of PG, even if theoretically WWE can push that boundary further than they tend to. The midcard titles are pretty stagnant atm, but at least people like Sheamus and Barrett were protected and booked dominantly (even if in Sheamus' case people see that as a negative). Russo has never demonstrated he can make a midcard title relevant beyond constant hot-shotting to make the division seem fresh, all the while burying the title as it never gets airtime, matches are shortened and treated as an afterthought with all the focus on post-match angles. You'd certainly not get the weekly quality of wrestling since he prefers short matches so he doesn't have to have a commercial break during a match. So people like Bryan, The Shield, The Wyatts, Cesaro, Goldust/Cody etc would have been fucked.

Honestly, the only positive Russo has theoretically is he aims for a show that's not boring. The negative however is that in doing so, he deems it perfectly acceptable to have a show that is ridiculed and mocked, if only because people will watch to see how bad it can be. He sees them as viewers regardless of their opinion on the product, but doesn't think how people will watch the free TV, but won't spend money on PPVs if they think the product is shit and the PPV likely to not be better. Say what you will about stagant storylines and repeated matches, but at least WWE is fairly stable with the ability to improve. They have over acts, numerous good-great matches on a weekly basis and real potential if the midcard could be fleshed out and an overall direction figured out. Gimmick matches, shoot nonsense and criminally short matches hardly seem capable of fixing a product.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

One thing I just never really understood about Russo was his obsession with RATINGS. Ok, yeah, means more money for the company and whatnot... but he is always talking about getting the NON WRESTLING FANS watching, and to do that he puts on a show that is no longer WRESTLING. He was the writer of numerous WRESTLING SHOWS but kept focusing on non wrestling for non wrestling fans. Ummm... if I'm not a wrestling fan, why would I think of watching a WRESTLING SHOW for non wrestling shit? That's stupid. I don't watch Person of Interest expecting it to be a horror. If POI suddenly decided they wanted higher RATINGS and thought the best thing to do was turn their show into something different then it would no longer be the show it's supposed to be. WWE, despite what they keep trying to tell us, is WRESTLING. Everyone, even NON WRESTLING FANS, call it WRESTLING. So why oh why is everyone, Russo in particular, obsessed with turning it into something else? 

That was a bit of a mess but I hope I kinda got my point across . I KNOW WHAT I MEAN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People probably have unreasonably fallen in love with Russo ever since the confirmation that Kevin Dunn is a hell of a douchebag (w/that Alex Greenfield interview) and Russo did that interesting but ass-kissing writing on WhatCulture regarding Vince McMahon's life. Well, if incoherent, self-aware and batshit crazy booking makes them happy, so be it.

Anyway, THE TIME IS UPON US... ALMOST. *#TheEndOfMyList*


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I think the next Nitro episode is the one with the infamous "You're half the man that I am, and I have half the brain that you do" promo :lmao. People rip on Sid for that but he was just being a company guy and doing what Russo asked him to :lmao. Technically the promo DOES make sense (He's addressing Hall and Nash, saying that combined they are only half the man he is while he only has 1 brain compared to the 2 of them), but fuck me it's just... :lmao.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks. Does the censoring carry onto 2000/2001 too do you know?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Thanks. Does the censoring carry onto 2000/2001 too do you know?


Don't remember, been a while since I watched the shows lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Almost died twice last night (MERICA day, dont drink kids :hbk} going to try and watch some of this stuff to rejuvenate myself right now



unk

I had food poisoning last night, I think you can handle a hangover 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> One thing I just never really understood about Russo was his obsession with RATINGS. Ok, yeah, means more money for the company and whatnot... but he is always talking about getting the NON WRESTLING FANS watching, and to do that he puts on a show that is no longer WRESTLING. He was the writer of numerous WRESTLING SHOWS but kept focusing on non wrestling for non wrestling fans. Ummm... if I'm not a wrestling fan, why would I think of watching a WRESTLING SHOW for non wrestling shit? That's stupid. I don't watch Person of Interest expecting it to be a horror. If POI suddenly decided they wanted higher RATINGS and thought the best thing to do was turn their show into something different then it would no longer be the show it's supposed to be. WWE, despite what they keep trying to tell us, is WRESTLING. Everyone, even NON WRESTLING FANS, call it WRESTLING. So why oh why is everyone, Russo in particular, obsessed with turning it into something else?
> 
> That was a bit of a mess but I hope I kinda got my point across . I KNOW WHAT I MEAN.


He's an idiot, that's why. Ratings were important during the Monday Night Wars since both companies obviously weren't revealing buyrates publicly to my knowledge (WWE went public in like 2000/2001?), and ratings therefore were an indicator of which product was hot. I'll concede that, but ever since he went to WCW his obsession with ratings worries me. The ratings weren't great under his WCW tenure compared to their peak, but also weren't embarrassing. But attendance was down, their PPV buys in some cases were shit (that bloke said a major PPV, might have been GAB '99 was doubled by ECW's Living Dangerously from the same year), and they didn't have numerous hot acts who could sell merch. Ratings mean jack shit if you can't convert more than a fraction into PPV buys. 

Even on his new blog, he talks about ratings alone. But the fact is they're not the primary indicator anymore. Ratings have stagnated, but WWE are as profitable as ever (prior to the network) by running more live events and outside deals/sponsorships. Would Vince trade all that profitability for 4.6s per week? The business is stagnant and who knows if it will ever experience a boom period again. That's why people who mock Bryan and Punk for not doubling PPVs overnight are morons. In Bryan's case, business remained fine under his tenure whilst Cena was out. He didn't spike business, but it didn't fall off a cliff with him as a key figure. Ergo, he's dependable. People think you need to be matching Austin and Rock in this day and age to be a 'draw', but it's clear Bryan and Punk are draws, albeit on a far smaller scale. Bryan is obviously a commodity that caters to the adult demographic primarily, but is now catching on with casual fans and kids alike.

Even in TNA, Russo will point to some high ratings to justify his style, but who did he make in TNA? Joe? The closest star TNA made was AJ, and he's drawn more on smaller indies since leaving TNA than he ever did with TNA. They lose millions per year (Heyman reported as much when getting access to accounts when Dixie wanted to bring him in, ok Heyman isn't always credible but it's not hard to see TNA has to have lost a shit-ton based on the inflated contracts and notoriously shit PPV buys), have barely any marketable stars, and ratings again are stagnant. Going from 1.5's to 1.1's isn't as big a problem as having no marketable stars, a sinking PPV model that isn't profitable or any draw of any kind. Hardy is a draw, but their criminal lack of promotion means people simply don't know he's there, and foolishly letting him act out his artistic fantasies has meant to any casual fan for the past 4 months he's been Willow and not Jeff Hardy.

TL;DR, Russo can only focus on ratings because of their worth when he was at his 'peak' and ignores the business aspect of wrestling. His writing is all based on short term twists to hook audiences, but simply falls apart in the long-term. Turning Austin heel in the middle of '99 would have been a shock, and hooked viewers for a few weeks. But anyone with a lick of sense knows dollars to doughnuts, Austin's money making character does better business as the asskicker with Vince feeding him opponents monthly, than trying to make Austin the guy the fans should hate. In the long-term, characters suffer because Russo turns them to the point they become stangant and exhaust all possible uses, titles become props and are traded so frequently that they lose their credibility, and stars can't be made because Russo has his flavour of the month guy he'll push, before moving to another guy to push for a month, which leaves the previous guy in limbo. No-one gets long-term exposure who isn't a veteran, and they re-run angles when its convenient, such as AJ in 2013 still being built as a guy 'trying to break through the glass ceiling'...when he's already like a six time TNA champ. It's just pathetic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

KURT ANGLE DEBUT VIGNETTES~!

Also, Big Show's dad just died and Bossman interrupted the 10 bells :lmao. That storyline was awful. And Show's dad was already long dead too .

Russo. What a cunt. His LOOK AT THE RATINGS~! line for his success always makes me :lmao too. PPV buyrates are non existent, nobody goes to live events, people shit all over the shows, nobody is buying merch and the companies lose millions of $$$ a year BUT THE RATINGS ARE UP 0.2 POINTS SO I'M THE BEST WRITER EVER!!!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

If Russo had a lemonade stand he'd consider it a success if 1000 people walked past him a day, despite only 10 buying something. At least 1000 people know of his lemondate stand~!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

He wouldn't JUST have a lemonade stand either. He'd be dressed as a clown while the lemonade was on a pole and Oklahoma was there doing commentary on the whole thing. APPEALING TO THE MASS AUDIENCE~!


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Just as his lemonade proved popular, he'd switch to Citrus Fruit the next day. SWERVE~!


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Everytime WOOLCOCK comes in here I always get inspired to watch some obscure Lucha or overseas wrestling... but I never do.  Maybe sometime because I have a bunch of Lucha discs I bought from IVP a while ago.

Just a heads up to everyone, don't bother with anything from Smackdown last night other than the opener (Sheamus vs. Del Rio) and the main event (Orton vs. Ambrose). Ambrose has another really good underdog babyface performance. There was literally ZERO worthwhile matches in between those. Cesaro had a fight with Big E that was kinda cool, Bo Dallas squashed Fernando, and AJ Lee won a quick match against Eva. Disappointing as it's the first full Smackdown I've watched in a long ass time. Jericho and Bray did have a good promo segment though.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

CLICK ON THE SPOILER BELOW FOR *PART 15 (the final part) OF MY MOTN LIST*












Spoiler: FINAL PART OF THE ATF MOTN LIST



*




ATF'S WWF/E PPV MOTN LIST

The line-up of every part here:
Part 1: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35168058-post1158.html
Part 2: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35207825-post1224.html
Part 3: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35382714-post1401.html
Part 4: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35724370-post1806.html
Part 5: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35757778-post1922.html
Part 6: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35818402-post2024.html
Part 7: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35838754-post2067.html
Part 8: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35910474-post2139.html
Part 9: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35919042-post2151.html
Part 10: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/35985402-post2222.html
Part 11: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36272954-post2549.html
Part 12: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36313977-post2599.html
Part 13: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36325713-post2608.html
Part 14: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/36355433-post2623.html


Before anything, here's what I chose to represent WrestleMania 28...

#66: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28










Shall we begin?





OOPS - I forgot the rest of the list. And I accidentally deleted the file where I had it all saved. I'm afraid this can't continue. TOO FUCKING BAD.














You REALLY think I would forget it? C'mon bro. LET'S NOT WASTE ANYMORE TIME!!!


PART 15
(20-1)

#20: Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004





#19: Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect, King Of The Ring 1993
xmx1to

#18: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1992
x8t0be
x8t115
x8t2fg
x8t32i
x8t7f4
x8tano
x8td7q
x8tebe
x8tjd6

#17: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2002
xz6p71

#16: Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1991
x199dm1

#15: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 22: Over The Edge





#14: Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House 10: Mind Games
xlmsec

#13: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1996
xxrdi2

#12: Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 7
xjsmjc

(*****)
#11: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WrestleMania 20
x108hxa

#10: John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money In The Bank 2011
xkn0g4

#9: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012





#8: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000
x1brczi

#7: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2001
x184v87

#6: The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania 17
x17ea80

#5: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26
xz9pv6

#4: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, WrestleMania 10
x1cybdl

#3: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25
x17ea96

#2: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 18: Badd Blood
x10jd53






#1: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania 13
x13mkie

*​


Spoiler: FULL LIST



*(*)*
#304: Hulk Hogan & Brutus Beefcake vs. Randy Savage & Zeus, No Holds Barred 1989
*(*3/4)*
#303: Shawn Michaels vs. Crush, UK Rampage 1993
*(**)*
#302: Brock Lesnar & Shawn Stasiak vs. The Hardys, Insurrextion 2002
#301: The Brood vs. The Acolytes & Viscera, No Mercy UK 1999
*(**1/4)*
#300: The Roadie vs. Bob Holly, King Of The Ring 1995
#299: TAKA Michinoku vs. Brian Christopher, In Your House 19: D-Generation X
#298: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, Mayhem In Manchester 1998
*(**1/2)*
#297: Randy Savage vs. The Dynamite Kid, The Wrestling Classic 1985
#296: Edge, Christian & The Hardys vs. Too Cool & The Hollys, Survivor Series 1999
#295: Hulk Hogan vs. Paul Orndorff, The Big Event 1986
#294: Jeff Jarrett vs. Val Venis, In Your House 23: Fully Loaded
#293: Vince McMahon vs. Triple H, Armageddon 1999
#292: Owen Hart vs. Steve Blackman, In Your House 26: Rock Bottom
#291: Triple H vs. Kevin Nash, Insurrextion 2003
#290: The Million Dollar Team vs. The Dream Team, Survivor Series 1990
*(**3/4)*
#289: Eddie Guerrero vs. Val Venis, King Of The Ring 2000
#288: Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage, First UK PPV 1989
#287: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Mankind vs. Kane, Capital Carnage 1998
#286: Kane & X-Pac vs. Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown, Over The Edge 1999
#285: Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts, This Tuesday In Texas 1991
#284: Diesel vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 11
#283: The Rock vs. Mankind, Survivor Series 1998
#282: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1997
#281: Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, WrestleMania 4
#280: The British Bulldog vs. The Berzerker, UK Rampage 1991
*(***)*
#279: The US Express vs. The Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff, WrestleMania 1
#278: Ric Flair vs. Tito Santana, Battle Royal At The Royal Albert Hall 1991
#277: The Funks vs. Greg Valentine & The Junkyard Dog, WrestleMania 2
#276: Shane McMahon vs. X-Pac, WrestleMania 15
#275: Randy Savage vs. Shawn Michaels, UK Rampage 1992
#274: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Insurrextion 2001
#273: The Rock vs. Shane McMahon vs. Triple H, Insurrextion 2000
#272: Rob Van Dam vs. Goldust, No Way Out 2002
#271: D-Generation X vs. Rated RKO, Cyber Sunday 2006
#270: Chris Jericho vs. Goldberg, Bad Blood 2003
#269: John Morrison vs. Drew McIntyre, TLC 2009
#268: The Undertaker vs. Mr. Kennedy, Survivor Series 2006
#267: The Undertaker vs. Chris Benoit, Rebellion 2000
#266: JBL vs. The Undertaker vs. Eddie Guerrero vs. Booker T, Armageddon 2004
#265: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2012
#264: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2006
*(***1/4)*
#263: Triple H vs. The Rock, Rebellion 1999
#262: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1989
#261: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, Survivor Series 2000
#260: The Great Khali vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Unforgiven 2007
#259: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Batista, Bragging Rights 2009
#258: The Smoking Gunns vs. Razor Ramon & The 123-Kid, In Your House 4: Great White North
#257: The Dream Team vs. The Enforcers, Survivor Series 1989
#256: Shawn Michaels vs. Randy Orton, Unforgiven 2003
#255: Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 1992
#254: The Hardys vs. Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch, Judgment Day 2007
#253: JeriShow vs. Rey Mysterio & Batista, Hell In A Cell 2009
#252: Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2013
#251: Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty, Royal Rumble 1993
#250: The Mega Powers vs. The Mega Bucks, SummerSlam 1988
#249: Team Flair vs. Team Piper, Survivor Series 1991
#248: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Global Warning 2002
#247: Kurt Angle & Chris Benoit vs. Los Guerreros, Rebellion 2002
#246: Steve Austin vs. Triple H, No Way Out 2001
#245: Shane McMahon vs. Test, SummerSlam 1999
*(***1/2)*
#244: Edge vs. Batista, Night Of Champions 2008
#243: The Ultimate Warrior vs. Rick Rude, SummerSlam 1990
#242: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2013
#241: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2010
#240: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio vs. John Morrison vs. R-Truth, Elimination Chamber 2010
#239: The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Mankind vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. The British Bulldog, Unforgiven 1999
#238: The Steiners vs. The Heavenly Bodies, SummerSlam 1993
#237: Steve Austin, Cactus Jack, Chainsaw Charlie & Owen Hart vs. Triple H, The New Age Outlaws & Savio Vega, In Your House 20: No Way Out Of Texas
#236: Chris Jericho vs. Kurt Angle, Rebellion 2001
#235: Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam, One Night Stand 2007
#234: Shawn Michaels vs. Mr. Kennedy, Armageddon 2007
#233: The Shield & The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Rey Mysterio & The Usos, Survivor Series 2013
#232: JBL vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2005
#231: Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 25: Judgment Day
#230: The Hardys vs. MNM, December To Dismember 2006
#229: Dolph Ziggler vs. Kaval, Survivor Series 2010
#228: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2013
#227: The Big Show vs. Sheamus, Survivor Series 2012
#226: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rob Van Dam, Judgment Day 2002
#225: Bret Hart vs. Jean-Pierre Lafitte, In Your House 3: Triple Header
#224: Alberto Del Rio vs. CM Punk, Survivor Series 2011
#223: Daniel Bryan vs. Cody Rhodes vs. The Big Show vs. The Great Khali vs. Wade Barrett vs. Santino Marella, Elimination Chamber 2012
#222: The Undertaker vs. Diesel, WrestleMania 12
#221: Shane McMahon vs. Kurt Angle, King Of The Ring 2001
#220: Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart, In Your House 6: Rage In The Cage
#219: Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan, WrestleMania 5
#218: Mankind vs. Kane, Survivor Series 1997
#217: Bret Hart vs. Hakushi, In Your House 1: Premiere
#216: Mankind vs. The Rock, In Your House 27: St. Valentine's Day Massacre
#215: CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, Night Of Champions 2009
#214: Finlay vs. William Regal, The Great American Bash 2006
#213: Evolution vs. Chris Benoit & William Regal, Unforgiven 2004
#212: The Steiners vs. The Headshrinkers, WrestleMania 9
#211: John Cena vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2007
#210: The Rock N'Roll Express vs. The Heavenly Bodies, Survivor Series 1993
#209: Chris Jericho vs. Rob Van Dam, King Of The Ring 2002
#208: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Over The Limit 2010
#207: 40-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2011
#206: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Judgment Day 2001
#205: Rated RKO vs. D-Generation X, New Year's Revolution 2007
#204: Triple H vs. The Big Show, New Year's Revolution 2006
*(***3/4)*
#203: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2003
#202: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, Unforgiven 2002
#201: Rob Van Dam vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2003
#200: Team Angle vs. Los Guerreros, Backlash 2003
#199: John Cena vs. Kurt Angle, No Mercy 2003
#198: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2005
#197: Edge vs. Batista, Vengeance 2007
#196: The Rock vs. Mankind vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 24: Breakdown
#195: Jeff Hardy vs. Rob Van Dam, Invasion 2001
#194: Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka, One Night Stand 2005
#193: John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs. Batista & The Undertaker, No Way Out 2007
#192: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1990
#191: Rob Van Dam vs. Edge, Vengeance 2006
#190: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, No Way Out 2003
#189: Rob Van Dam vs. Eddie Guerrero, Backlash 2002
#188: Owen Hart vs. Ken Shamrock, SummerSlam 1998
#187: Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy, In Your House 12: It's Time
#186: The McMahons & The Big Show vs. D-Generation X, Unforgiven 2006
#185: Edge vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2005
#184: The Undertaker vs. Edge, Backlash 2008
#183: Team WWE vs. The Nexus, SummerSlam 2010
#182: Shawn Michaels vs. Batista, One Night Stand 2008
#181: Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback 2014
#180: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, King Of The Ring 1994
#179: Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker, Invasion 2001
#178: Paul London vs. Billy Kidman, No Mercy 2004
#177: The Rhodes Brothers vs. Rey Mysterio & The Big Show vs. The Real Americans vs. Rybaxel, TLC 2013
#176: John Cena vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2009
#175: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, No Way Out 2012
#174: D-Generation X vs. Legacy, SummerSlam 2009
#173: Chris Jericho vs. Evan Bourne, Fatal 4-Way 2010
#172: The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Shield vs. The Usos, Hell In A Cell 2013
#171: Steve Austin vs. The Undertaker, Fully Loaded 1999
#170: Mark Henry vs. The Miz vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Chavo Guerrero, Unforgiven 2008
#169: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, Unforgiven 2000
#168: Ric Flair vs. Randy Orton, Taboo Tuesday 2004
#167: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2009
#166: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1987
#165: CM Punk vs. Rey Mysterio, Capitol Punishment 2011
#164: Triple H vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2012
#163: Randy Orton vs. Mark Henry, Night Of Champions 2011
#162: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, The Great American Bash 2005
#161: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1996
#160: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, The Great American Bash 2008
*(****)*
#159: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 21: Unforgiven
#158: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton & Bob Orton, No Mercy 2005
#157: John Cena vs. Bobby Lashley, The Great American Bash 2007
#156: Edge vs. Triple H vs. Jeff Hardy, Armageddon 2008
#155: Daniel Bryan vs. The Miz vs. John Morrison, Hell In A Cell 2010
#154: John Cena vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Mike Knox, No Way Out 2009
#153: Jack Swagger vs. Christian, Backlash 2009
#152: John Cena vs. CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio, Hell In A Cell 2011
#151: Triple H vs. Chris Benoit, No Mercy 2000
#150: Randy Orton vs. Edge, Vengeance 2004
#149: The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan, Night Of Champions 2010
#148: Steve Austin vs. Shawn Michaels, King Of The Ring 1997
#147: The People's Posse vs. Camp Cornette, In Your House 9: International Incident
#146: John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback vs. The Shield, Elimination Chamber 2013
#145: Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian, Extreme Rules 2011
#144: Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega, In Your House 8: Beware Of Dog
#143: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, In Your House 11: Buried Alive
#142: Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero, The Great American Bash 2004
#141: Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover 2014
#140: John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge, Backlash 2006
#139: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Survivor Series 2005
#138: Kofi Kingston vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Christian vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Matt Hardy vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Drew McIntyre, Money In The Bank 2010
#137: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, In Your House 14: Revenge Of The Taker
#136: Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, SummerSlam 1996
#135: CM Punk vs. Alberto Del Rio vs. The Miz, TLC 2011
#134: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, Royal Rumble 1998
#133: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 17: Ground Zero
#132: The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, WrestleMania 18
#131: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, No Way Out 2008
#130: Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank 2014
#129: Brock Lesnar vs. The Big Show, Judgmen Day 2003
#128: Chris Benoit vs. Kane, Bad Blood 2004
#127: Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels, SummerSlam 1995
#126: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2005
#125: The Undertaker vs. Kane, WrestleMania 14
#124: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Armageddon 2002
#123: Shawn Michaels vs. Jeff Jarrett, In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks
#122: Hulk Hogan vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 6
#121: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1996
*(****1/4)*
#120: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 27
#119: CM Punk vs. John Cena, Night Of Champions 2012
#118: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2008
#117: Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble 2014
#116: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. The Rock vs. Triple H vs. Rikishi, Armageddon 2000
#115: CM Punk vs. John Cena, SummerSlam 2011
#114: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, In Your House 28: Backlash
#113: Randy Orton vs. Christian, Over The Limit 2011
#112: Team WWF vs. Team Alliance, Survivor Series 2001
#111: John Cena vs. Batista, Extreme Rules 2010
#110: Vader vs. Ken Shamrock, In Your House 15: A Cold Day In Hell
#109: The Undertaker vs. Batista, Backlash 2007
#108: Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2008
#107: Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, SummerSlam 2006
#106: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Money In The Bank 2012
#105: Sheamus vs. The Big Show, Hell In A Cell 2012
#104: The Undertaker vs. The Big Show, Cyber Sunday 2008
#103: Mankind vs. The Rock, Royal Rumble 1999
#102: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Judgment Day 2009
#101: Team HHH vs. Team Orton, Survivor Series 2004
#100: Dean Ambrose vs. Jack Swagger vs. Cody Rhodes vs. Damien Sandow vs. Wade Barrett vs. Antonio Cesaro vs. Fandango, Money In The Bank 2013
#99: Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, SummerSlam 2004
#98: The Undertaker vs. Mankind, King Of The Ring 1998
#97: Batista vs. The Undertaker, Cyber Sunday 2007
#96: Rey Mysterio vs. Chris Jericho, Extreme Rules 2009
#95: Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, Backlash 2001
#94: Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, No Mercy 1999
#93: Chris Jericho vs. John Cena, Survivor Series 2008
#92: Randy Orton vs. John Cena, Breaking Point 2009
#91: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, Unforgiven 2001
#90: Triple H vs. Randy Orton, No Mercy 2007
#89: Sheamus vs. John Morrison, TLC 2010
#88: The Hart Foundation vs. The Brain Busters, SummerSlam 1989
#87: The Rock vs. Chris Jericho, No Mercy 2001
#86: Chris Benoit vs. William Regal, No Mercy 2006
#85: The Hart Brothers vs. The Quebecers, Royal Rumble 1994
#84: The Undertaker vs. Edge, SummerSlam 2008
#83: Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Judgment Day 2005
#82: The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1997
#81: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Kane vs. Rob Van Dam vs. Booker T, Survivor Series 2002
#80: The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Battleground 2013
#79: The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules 2014
#78: Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio, Payback 2013
#77: The Rockers vs. The Orient Express, Royal Rumble 1991
#76: Bret Hart vs. Diesel, Royal Rumble 1995
#75: Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel, In Your House 7: Good Friends, Better Enemies
#74: Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
#73: Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage, WrestleMania 8
#72: Randy Orton vs. Shawn Michaels, Survivor Series 2007
*(****1/2)*
#71: Daniel Bryan vs. Dolph Ziggler, Bragging Rights 2010
#70: Edge vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 24
#69: Batista vs. The Undertaker, WrestleMania 23
#68: The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2002
#67: Team Austin vs. Team Bischoff, Survivor Series 2003
#66: The Undertaker vs. Triple H, WrestleMania 28
#65: 20-Man Survivor Series, Survivor Series 1988
#64: Bret Hart vs. The Undertaker, One Night Only 1997
#63: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, No Way Out 2000
#62: Edge vs. Wade Barrett vs. Kane vs. The Big Show vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Drew McIntyre, Elimination Chamber 2011
#61: The Undertaker vs. CM Punk, WrestleMania 29
#60: Edge vs. Mick Foley, WrestleMania 22
#59: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2004
#58: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 2002
#57: Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kane vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian, WrestleMania 21
#56: The Undertaker vs. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart vs. Vader, In Your House 13: Final Four
#55: Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit, Vengeance 2003
#54: The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, Armageddon 2005
#53: John Cena vs. Umaga, Royal Rumble 2007
#52: Chris Benoit vs. Finlay, Judgment Day 2006
#51: Triple H vs. The Rock, Backlash 2000
#50: The Dudley Boyz vs. Edge & Christian vs. The Hardys, WrestleMania 16
#49: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, In Your House 5: Seasons Beatings
#48: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, SummerSlam 1994
#47: Londrick vs. The Hardys vs. MNM vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor, Armageddon 2006
#46: Edge vs. Matt Hardy, Unforgiven 2005
#45: Edge & Christian vs. The Dudley Boyz vs. The Hardys, SummerSlam 2000
#44: The Undertaker vs. The Rock vs. Kurt Angle, Vengeance 2002
#43: Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2003
#42: Diesel vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1995
#41: Chris Jericho vs. Rey Mysterio, The Bash 2009
#40: Steve Austin vs. The Rock, WrestleMania 19
#39: Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, SummerSlam 1992
#38: CM Punk vs. Daniel Bryan, Over The Limit 2012
#37: Edge, Mick Foley & Lita vs. Terry Funk, Tommy Dreamer & Beulah McGuillicutty, One Night Stand 2006
#36: The Rock vs. Triple H, Judgment Day 2000
#35: Bret Hart vs. Bob Backlund, Survivor Series 1994
#34: Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat, WrestleMania 3
#33: Batista vs. Triple H, Vengeance 2005
#32: Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho, Royal Rumble 2001
*(****3/4)*
#31: Triple H vs. Chris Jericho, Fully Loaded 2000
#30: Triple H vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit vs. Batista, New Year's Revolution 2005
#29: The Hart Foundation vs. Steve Austin, The Legion Of Doom, Goldust & Ken Shamrock, In Your House 16: Canadian Stampede
#28: Kurt Angle vs. The Undertaker, No Way Out 2006
#27: Randy Orton vs. Cactus Jack, Backlash 2004
#26: Team Hell No & Ryback vs. The Shield, TLC 2012
#25: CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, SummerSlam 2013
#24: Ric Flair vs. Triple H, Taboo Tuesday 2005
#23: Eddie Guerrero vs. JBL, Judgment Day 2004
#22: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber 2014
#21: Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival 2014
#20: Brock Lesnar vs. Eddie Guerrero, No Way Out 2004
#19: Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect, King Of The Ring 1993
#18: 30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble 1992
#17: Brock Lesnar vs. The Undertaker, No Mercy 2002
#16: Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart, SummerSlam 1991
#15: Steve Austin vs. Dude Love, In Your House 22: Over The Edge
#14: Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind, In Your House 10: Mind Games
#13: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1996
#12: Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, WrestleMania 7
*(*****)*
#11: Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit, WrestleMania 20
#10: John Cena vs. CM Punk, Money In The Bank 2011
#9: John Cena vs. Brock Lesnar, Extreme Rules 2012
#8: Triple H vs. Cactus Jack, Royal Rumble 2000
#7: Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, SummerSlam 2001
#6: The Rock vs. Steve Austin, WrestleMania 17
#5: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 26
#4: Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart, WrestleMania 10
#3: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, WrestleMania 25
#2: The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House 18: Badd Blood
#1: Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart, WrestleMania 13






:bow​


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

You mixed up 1 and 2.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bitching is not accepted. 8*D

In all seriousness, Austin is my favorite wrestler ever (though Flair is the GOAT, Austin is my favorite), and with this match having always been my definition of perfection in all ends it achieved - from a technical standpoint to a brawl standpoint - it was easy pickings for #1 imo.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't complain too much tbh, it IS a spectacular match, and if anyone was gonna put a match above HIAC then that's the most acceptable .

Wrong, but acceptable... :side:.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Was expecting a swerve for the top rankings but ATF playing it safe. 

Thread didn't go far but GOAT RAW match?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's not a question of playing it safe, it's a question of playing it THE WAY IT IS. If one match is that damn good, I ain't denying it. 

GOAT Raw match is probably the Powertrip vs Team Canadian Chris.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

GOAT Raw match is a tough one imo, the Ben and Jerry tag is of course right up there, but there are many. I can watch Dave Boy Smith/Owen Hart (1997.03.03) a thousand times and never get tired of it, that match is surely in the top 5 at least.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Cool how the two greatest matches in WWE history happen in the same year (HBK/Undertaker) & (Bret/Austin)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Owen/Bulldog is currently my #1 Raw match. But I'd need to go through a bunch of other matches to really decide since I don't think quite as much of the match as I used to. Still tremendous though. Cena/Punk 2012 is up there. Benoit/Austin in 01 before the epic SD match. Eddie/RVD ladder in 02. Undertaker/Jeff ladder in 02. I'm forgetting many others. Those certain tags in 97 and 01 ain't in contention for me though. Overrated is all they is.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm not good at "top 10's" but when I think of best raw matches, any of these pop up :

Hart/Kidd 7/11/94 
Owen/Davey 3/3/97
Cena/Michaels 4/07
hbk/scsa vs. owen/davey
Cena/Punk 2/13
Benoit/Scsa 2001
evolution vs. hbk/Benjamin/foley/benoit


Havent seen the 2 man power trip tag in a very long time, so I forget. I know there are a few 90s Michaels matches I'm very very high on so I'd have to see. Perfect/Flair is good but dont think its 10 top. I need to rewatch HBK/HHH again also


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm just watching the 1989 feud of the year: Flair vs Funk.

Ross is interviewing Funk, who introduces Flair, but it isn't Ric, it's some imposter in a wig.  Then Sting interups.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Flair/Funk feud is the one that convinced me that Flair is the greatest ever, after watching the Steamboat trilogy. DAT I QUIT MATCH.



The Hardcore Show said:


> Cool how the two greatest matches in WWE history happen in the same year (HBK/Undertaker) & (Bret/Austin)


That is most certainly true. Brings up more argument for 1997 being the WWE's greatest year.

I'm actually surprised no one bitched about anything in my list's final part (apart from you know who :side. Figured some would've been pissed Austin/Angle is below Rock/Austin 17 and not in the Top 5 8*D


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Angle/Austin is way too high, that would be like #3 for me. 

HBK/Taker WM 26 being having a better rank than it :side: 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

My god, these Russo WCW shows in 99 are such a damn mess. I swear EVERYONE is feuding with like 4 people at a time. Everyone is both babyface and heel at the same time too.

Disco is getting chased by a guy with a bucket of concrete.

GOLDBERG, BRET, SID AND HALL are going to have a ladder match for the US title. I think I remember this :lmao.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

NAITCH said:


> I'm not good at "top 10's" but when I think of best raw matches, any of these pop up :
> 
> Hart/Kidd 7/11/94
> Owen/Davey 3/3/97
> ...


Rewatch Orton vs. D-Bry 12/16/2013 also.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FUCK.

However, that has the makings of a meme - complains about it being way too high. Says it's #3 for him. 

And like Super Sonic said, Orton/Bryan from December 2013 is a legit top contender too. I have that at ****1/4 from last watch. Legit BRILLIANT work from both men, especially - can't believe I'm saying it about one of his 2013 performances - Orton.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I can't wait to get to the I Quit match, but the Bash match is fucking great too IMO. Muta and Funk are just beating the shit out if Flair post match now.......and Sting saves the day.

Edit: Yes, someone bought up Orton/Bryan, sooooo much better than their ppv matches. Live the Raw match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao this same episode is the one with SEVEN :lmao.

David Flair is stalking Kimberly with a crowbar like a lunatic. Meanwhile, nobody seems to care :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, the December match is legit. Their February '14 match is also fucking great (***3/4), however Orton had it "on" much more two months earlier. Like if his 2004/5/6 self was awaken for one night only against the damn best in the world to produce the most awesome match possible.

Such a shame that the PPV trilogy was kinda lackluster for the potential it had. Even still, the Night Of Champions match was *Match Of The Night* of its PPV 8*D


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hmm...so apparently Marcus Dupree was a wrestler in various territories in the mid-90s. For those of you who don't know, Marcus Dupree was a guy who during college was the top running back prospect in all of football. Dude ran for 250 yards at the Fiesta Bowl while being 15 pounds overweight! Unfortunately, an injury in his sophomore year as well as bad decisions caused him to becoming one of football's biggest "what if" stories. But back to the matter at hand; does anyone know anything about his professional wrestling career?

I also just watched No Way Out 2001. MOTN was the four-way IC match. Not a surprise considering Jericho, Benoit, and Eddie were in it. But wow, I think I finally "get" the three stages of hell match. The final fall was pretty bad and the first ten minutes didn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but the match definitely felt like the war that they were trying to have. Great way to end a pretty bad feud.

Rock/Angle though :lmao Started off well and then turned into the prequel of Rock/Punk.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Onto the Halloween Havoc Thunderdome match now, forgot Sammartino was the ref in this one. Unsure if the crowd were shouting boo or Bruno when he made his entrance lol.






And i still fucking love the 3SOH match, apart from the first fall, which i still don't like.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> My god, these Russo WCW shows in 99 are such a damn mess. I swear EVERYONE is feuding with like 4 people at a time. Everyone is both babyface and heel at the same time too.
> 
> Disco is getting chased by a guy with a bucket of concrete.
> 
> GOLDBERG, BRET, SID AND HALL are going to have a ladder match for the US title. I think I remember this :lmao.


At some point (don't think it was in Russo's tenure though), WCW booked a Ladder Match on Nitro that went 3 minutes IIRC and ended on a countout/DQ. I laughed relentlessly when I read it.

The apex of Russo shittiness is when he returns in April '00 and they vacate the belts and basically turn all the wrestlers face/heel depending on their previous alignment so they can run the Millionaires Club/New Breed angle. Incredible in its stupidity.

Also, whilst rewatching these episodes, keep an eye out for how women are presented. If they're not in slutty clothes, are blamed for breaking up tag teams/friends, are booked to turn on the wrestler they're with or attacked/abused in some form then I'll be amazed. His writing of women is genuinly unnverving in how misogynistic it is.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When was Liz's last appearance in WCW? Was she in it near the end.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The writing for the women has been awful. Torrie kidnapped for a week and trapped in a shark cage. Medusa put in the ring again MENG and BENOIT. Kimberly is being stalked by David Flair this episode while wearing some skin tight dress and stockings :lmao. I swear to fucking god, the first segment backstage with Flair stalking her was followed up by the commentators promoting a DRINK :lmao.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> When was Liz's last appearance in WCW? Was she in it near the end.


Her last appearance was sometime in '00. She was with Luger who actually had a really good chickenshit heel act going. I think it was reported they were basically trying to get her to break her contract given how much she was on and them being bled dry by all the big money contracts. I think Luger returned after a break sometime in 2001 before the end, without Liz.



#ROOT said:


> The writing for the women has been awful. Torrie kidnapped for a week and trapped in a shark cage. Medusa put in the ring again MENG and BENOIT. Kimberly is being stalked by David Flair this episode while wearing some skin tight dress and stockings :lmao. I swear to fucking god, the first segment backstage with Flair stalking her was followed up by the commentators promoting a DRINK :lmao.


He can't write a woman for absolute shit. It literally is just sleazy tits and ass, bikini contests, have them be sluts who cheat on their men for others and get abused etc etc. I'm pretty sure during Jarrett's run in the main event he was pretty much attacking a woman every week. Again, shock value that got old very quickly and subsequently became pathetic to watch on a weekly basis. That's when he's not booking Madusa vs Oklahoma for the Cruiserweight title when he has Rey Mysterio, Psychosis, Kidman, Juvie etc on the roster. Did you forget he's a genius don't ya know?

* I was actually re-reading that WCW review I linked before last week. One segment saw David buy a ring for Stacy before getting knocked out. She saw the ring, didn't consider it good enough and danced over his body. I tell you, this man has woman issues.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Fab Four said:


> I'm just watching the 1989 feud of the year


Jumbo/Tenryu? :banderas


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I don't watch Person of Interest expecting it to be a horror.


No, but you watch it expecting it to be a wrestling show. Where are those Dirty Pat Simmons match reviews? Or was it Seabs that did them?

My goodness. You could tell that The Rock didn't really care that much about wrestling during this Road to WM X7. His matches are all the exact same and his promos have turned into exactly what his critics say they are: just catchphrases. And the buildup to WM X7 is so weird. Royal Rumble and No Way Out were the two PPVs with lengthy feuds being resolved, but Wrestlemania was the place where new "feuds" were built. I say "feuds" because just about all of them consist of "I don't have anything to do. Neither do you. Let's fight". Justin Credible is also awful.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Jumbo/Tenryu? :banderas


I'm not sure I've yet seen their matches.  Ill get to them soon enough when I start watching more Japan stuff.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I should be ashamed of myself to admit this, but I've only ever seen 1 Jumbo match and 1 Tenryu match. The Jumbo match was a 2/3 Falls CLASSIC with Terry Funk in 1976. It's just an amazing bout, for anyone that EVER doubts Terry's ability to have a straight up wrestling contest (why they would think this, I'm not sure) you really need to see this. Both guys were just incredible with how they structured it and how it had this slow simmer throughout that culminated in a wild last 5-6 minutes.

The only Tenryu match I've seen was against Stan Hansen in 1993 (Hansen btw is fast becoming one of my absolute favorites, the more I see of him the more I love). Just a total corker of a match that gets the full 5 stars from me.

So, really, I have no clue why I haven't watched more of either guy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, that Funk/Jumbo match is on my to watch list, along with more Funk once I've finished with the Funk/Flair feud.

Then it's Volk Han for me.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

DAT HATE!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Pretend I'm actually someone important and put it on ya list and watch :hbk


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

reading some of the past few pages has actually lowered my opinion on Vince Russo. Didn't think it was possible. I'm going to go change the colour of the sky in a sec.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

If anyone needs something to watch, my main man FLUX sent me this yesterday and I was totally blown away. Just a phenomenal bout, Dynamite was one of the best dick heels I've ever seen in this match.

Marty Jones vs The Dynamite Kid British World of Sport

Part 1: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MLyO790es-I

Part 2: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nSTt62vgl1g


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

^ I think I told Cody to watch that match when I started my WOS thread and had that as one of the first matches I linked. Can't remember if he did watch it, because I recall him watching a few Jones matches.

FWIW Jones is infinitely better than DK and the sort of worker DK wishes he was in terms of explosive offence, but built to and executed in a more logical and smart manner. That is one if, if not the best DK performance I've seen though, as he really fucks with the WOS rules and more or less tempts the referee to throw the match out. It plays into Jones' strength as well, as despite being a stiff worker who mixed matwork with the euro uppercut offence, his best asset imo was being so natural in terms of changing his demeanour in a match. So many times wrestlers will start out respectful and then do a spot where 'things break down' and it feels really rushed and cliche. Jones has this edge to him where you know it won't take much to piss him off, and when he finally ditches the pleasantries and sets about trying to murder someone it really feels organic and natural.

If you want the quintessential WOS match though, watch either Steve Grey vs Clive Myers (11/22/75) - basically WOS's version of Flair/Steamboat. Myers isn't a heel, but he's billed as the West Indian international sensation, whereas Grey is a firm local talent looking to cause the upset of his career. The other quintessential match for someone unfamiliar with the style would be Grey vs Johnny Saint (1/28/80) - Grey beat Saint in December of '79 and Saint is determined to establish supremacy and reclaim his reputation as the better wrestler. Grey firmly becomes the best WOS worker the more of his matches I see, as he's one of the most sympathetic and engaging workers I've seen, in addition to being a great matwork talent and having great highspots which are built to superbly. Grey's plight as Saint relentlessly tortures him to reclaim his throne is such a gripping narrative and adds detail to the amazing athleticism and sequences. It also rubbishes the claim WOS is just mindless exhibition that fans of US wrestling can't enjoy. There's plenty of stories and narratives to be found amongst the matwork and counters.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WOOLCOCK said:


> ^ I think I told Cody to watch that match when I started my WOS thread and had that as one of the first matches I linked. Can't remember if he did watch it, because I recall him watching a few Jones matches.
> 
> FWIW Jones is infinitely better than DK and the sort of worker DK wishes he was in terms of explosive offence, but built to and executed in a more logical and smart manner. That is one if, if not the best DK performance I've seen though, as he really fucks with the WOS rules and more or less tempts the referee to throw the match out. It plays into Jones' strength as well, as despite being a stiff worker who mixed matwork with the euro uppercut offence, his best asset imo was being so natural in terms of changing his demeanour in a match. So many times wrestlers will start out respectful and then do a spot where 'things break down' and it feels really rushed and cliche. Jones has this edge to him where you know it won't take much to piss him off, and when he finally ditches the pleasantries and sets about trying to murder someone it really feels organic and natural.
> 
> If you want the quintessential WOS match though, watch either Steve Grey vs Clive Myers (11/22/75) - basically WOS's version of Flair/Steamboat. Myers isn't a heel, but he's billed as the West Indian international sensation, whereas Grey is a firm local talent looking to cause the upset of his career. The other quintessential match for someone unfamiliar with the style would be Grey vs Johnny Saint (1/28/80) - Grey beat Saint in December of '79 and Saint is determined to establish supremacy and reclaim his reputation as the better wrestler. Grey firmly becomes the best WOS worker the more of his matches I see, as he's one of the most sympathetic and engaging workers I've seen, in addition to being a great matwork talent and having great highspots which are built to superbly. Grey's plight as Saint relentlessly tortures him to reclaim his throne is such a gripping narrative and adds detail to the amazing athleticism and sequences. It also rubbishes the claim WOS is just mindless exhibition that fans of US wrestling can't enjoy. There's plenty of stories and narratives to be found amongst the matwork and counters.


I haven't seen many DK singles matches, just that Marty Jones match, the 4/23/83 match vs Tiger Mask (soooooo overrated, they freaking no sell Tombstones for Christ sake) and this real gem he had with Bret Hart in the Capital Center for WWE in 1985. So I really can't speak to how good he has as a singles guy, though I generally enjoy his work with the Bulldogs. That said, I thought he was such a great asshole in that Jones match, he did a splendid job of playing off the "not knowing the rules" gimmick because he had been wrestling predominantly in the states. The point when he just hauls off and cracks Jones in the head after the bell sounds to end the round is the real turning point. Things start getting REALLY chippy from there on out. I loved how DK kept trying to be the "nice guy" and shake Jones hand, and Jones didn't come off looking like a dumb baby face because after he realized what DK was doing, he refused to shake his hand. You know a match is being worked superbly when the missile drop kick Jones hits DK with is seen as a MASSIVE high spot.

Regal was on Steve Austin's show a few months back, and he stated Marty Jones is the best wrestler he's ever been in the ring with and that he really took a lot from Marty when forming his own style. It's no secret that Benoit worshipped Dynamite as a kid, and that Benoit formed a lot of his move set after what DK did. Those two even look a lot alike. So in a way, when we see Regal and Benoit deliver a classic bout on the mat like the one they had at the Pillman Memorial Show in 2000, we are watching an evolutionary DK/Marty Jones bout, only with the heel/baby face roles reversed. 

I'll check those two matches out you just mentioned. The more WoS stuff I watch, the more I like it. Random side note: Foley was on Legends Roundtable when they were discussing the notorious bad asses in the sport of wrestling. He said he is really good friends with Adrian Street, and that Street was legitimately one of the toughest dudes he'd ever met. He saw Street put a hold on a guy that caused the guy to vomit then black out he was in so much pain. Thought that was interesting. Although I guess you'd have to be one bad ass dude to be comfortable portraying the gimmick Adrian did, I'm sure he had to fight a few guys in his day who thought he was a wimp because of his character. I for one LOVE everything I've ever seen from Adrian Street, he was pure gold and one incredible wrestler from a technical standpoint.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> You mixed up 1 and 2.


He mixed up 2 and 50 more than likely. That HiaC match just isn't great. Wow Taker squashed somebody! omg Kane debuted!!! *yawn*


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> When was Liz's last appearance in WCW? Was she in it near the end.


I want to find the episode where her dress flew up at in the last minute of the Nitro episode...She was handcuffing somebody to the ropes and jumped off the apron. Thong and ass exposed. Have never seen a picture or anything of it. Saw it live and on the replay after the show.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> He mixed up 2 and 50 more than likely. That HiaC match just isn't great. Wow Taker squashed somebody! omg Kane debuted!!! *yawn*


:wall

No reaponse for this without getting a warning


----------



## LFC_Styles (Dec 11, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> :wall
> 
> No reaponse for this without getting a warning


Ditto LOL. What a coock.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> ^ I think I told Cody to watch that match when I started my WOS thread and had that as one of the first matches I linked. Can't remember if he did watch it, because I recall him watching a few Jones matches.


I did, but I'll be damned if it doesn't come across as a blur. All others I've seen from WOS are clear as day, minus that one. Must have been at the tail end of my cramming. Happens to me fro time to time.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Very brief tenure, but watched the three austin/Regal pairings in WCW, and while none toor the house down, loved the way the two worked together. always made fights two on one when applicable, loved the spot where the face would achieve the hot tag but in pursuit the apron Regal/Austin would distract the ref so it doesnt count then to get more heat come in for a bit to mug the legal man. The apron was just as much game as the ring (an element missing today) and the selling of Regal in particular was money ala the enzuguri sell at COC or the headlock sell of Pillman was a GOAT level sell with Regal churning with momentum and driving his legs to try to get out. In these three matches, the moment standing out to me most was Arn being denied a tag followed by Austin running up and giving the ref waveoff/incomplete sign to Arn :maury

As for ratings, Austin/Regal vs Steamboat/Arn was good albeit basic and with a telegraphee finish but enough money mannerisms, storytelling, good selling and a good structure to warrant """1/4 stars from me. dustin/Pillman match was just okay maybe ""1\4 and Arn/Roma had glimpses of a soolid outing but was just above mediocre ""1/2 high end ""3\4.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> :wall
> 
> No reaponse for this without getting a warning


Then use an image/smiley to say it, and avoid infraction. 

There's no denotative difference between saying "you're a fucking clown" and simply posting this as a reply: :stupid: but the first is a bannable offence, the second is under the smiley list. Gotta love passive aggressive posting.





Spoiler: this is too fantastic not to reuse


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well after watching those awful WCW 99 shows I needed a good laugh, so thanks StuckInHell4-Life .

And now back to more WCW 99 awfulness :side:. Nah. Got a SD to watch first. Then a Raw. And then back to awful 99 WCW .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I've probably missed any reason you posted on why you're focusing on '99 WCW, thanks to laughing so hard at Russo's idiocy, so forgive me if you have to state this again but... WHY ARE YOU WATCHING WCW CIRCA '99?!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

StuckInHell4-Life said:


> I want to find the episode where her dress flew up at in the last minute of the Nitro episode...She was handcuffing somebody to the ropes and jumped off the apron. Thong and ass exposed. Have never seen a picture or anything of it. Saw it live and on the replay after the show.


Try one of these:

http://the-w.com/7/thread.php/id=8083

Greatest thread ever. :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> I've probably missed any reason you posted on why you're focusing on '99 WCW, thanks to laughing so hard at Russo's idiocy, so forgive me if you have to state this again but... WHY ARE YOU WATCHING WCW CIRCA '99?!


Well you see, the reason is...

HEY LOOK OVER THERE!



Just updated my BLOG~! too since it's Sunday and I REMEMBERED early on for a change . JD 03 ramblings posted. Whatever.

JD 07 was supposed to come yesterday with Amazon Prime (the RIGHT JD this time lol). Surprise surprise, it didn't show up. Fuck me. I'm definitely not renewing my Prime subscription when it runs out. Hardly ever get anything on time.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

No vids, no buys.


Blog is down for me, btw. "Fatal error"


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Works for me just fine. Probably just your country's internet :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finished watching Flair/Funk, the I Quit match is still oh so great, but after watching them the weekend, im kinda preferring the GAB match atm. 

Think ill now move onto some Volk Han.

Im getting the error too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Love seeing Cal doesn't have a reason for watching Russo oriented programming.

WHO EVER DOES?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The guys behind the "bring back Russo" program do. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have a reason I'm just not sharing it lol .

And fuck your internet too :side:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, let me just warn you that clicking in your blog will result in this:

Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 32 bytes) in /home/wrestlin/public_html/wrestlingview.co.uk/wp-content/plugins/wordfence/lib/wfBrowscapCache.php on line 40190


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Finished watching Flair/Funk, the I Quit match is still oh so great, but after watching them the weekend, im kinda preferring the GAB match atm.


just noticed this. GAB match is plenty > I Quit. Understand the significance or memorable means the I Quit brought, but their first match was supremely superior.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Cal, let me just warn you that clicking in your blog will result in this:
> 
> Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 67108864 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 32 bytes) in /home/wrestlin/public_html/wrestlingview.co.uk/wp-content/plugins/wordfence/lib/wfBrowscapCache.php on line 40190


Ahhh, wordfence. Just updated that so it's fucked something up. Odd that I don't get the message though lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But then again, it came in a handy time - other than Brock/Big and to a lesser extent the Ladder match, what's JD 2003's worth? 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fixed it temperarilerarly. Had to disable wordfence until I can find a solution for it. Error comes up for me when I'm not logged in, but when I'm logged in I can see the site just fine lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nevermind what I said about JD 2003 being useless outside of the Stretcher and Ladder matches, I forgot it had the single greatest match in wrestling history:






:banderas :bow


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

1 MILLION FAP STARS~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Diving a few pages back I found this gem regarding my AWESOME list:



StuckInHell4-Life said:


> He mixed up 2 and 50 more than likely. That HiaC match just isn't great. Wow Taker squashed somebody! omg Kane debuted!!! *yawn*


This is a good one for a morning laugh :maury

My number #50 apparently was WM 16's Triangle Ladder match. StuckInHell4-Life really appreciates DEM SPOTZ (even if this kind of SPOTZ is cool as hell) 8*D


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> Works for me just fine. Probably just your country's internet :side:.


You wouldn't mock the less privileged if you also had to download PPVs at 30kB/s.

Fun times!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> You wouldn't mock the less privileged if you also had to download PPVs at 30kB/s.
> 
> Fun times!


I used to back when I had dial up .

Now I download them at 400kb/s. Which is still pretty shitty . 4mb connection, meanwhile my friend is on 90mb. He downloads films in 1080p faster than I download a normal TV show in SD. Bastard.

Back in the day I'd get up, start my download of Raw/SD/PPV going then hope it was finished when I got home from school/college. Rarely was .


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I wish my download speeds were even slower, tbf. Right now, I have at least 100GB of content I need to watch, and I know I'm never gonna make it. It just keeps piling up.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm starting to think I'm the only one who doesn't bother to download Raws/PPV's and stuff like that and watches it all on the internet (not live streams or anything, but I have a few trustworthy websites that upload the shows as soon as they finish airing)


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Regal was on Steve Austin's show a few months back, and he stated Marty Jones is the best wrestler he's ever been in the ring with and that he really took a lot from Marty when forming his own style. It's no secret that Benoit worshipped Dynamite as a kid, and that Benoit formed a lot of his move set after what DK did. Those two even look a lot alike. So in a way, when we see Regal and Benoit deliver a classic bout on the mat like the one they had at the Pillman Memorial Show in 2000, we are watching an evolutionary DK/Marty Jones bout, only with the heel/baby face roles reversed.
> 
> I'll check those two matches out you just mentioned. The more WoS stuff I watch, the more I like it. Random side note: Foley was on Legends Roundtable when they were discussing the notorious bad asses in the sport of wrestling. He said he is really good friends with Adrian Street, and that Street was legitimately one of the toughest dudes he'd ever met. He saw Street put a hold on a guy that caused the guy to vomit then black out he was in so much pain. Thought that was interesting. Although I guess you'd have to be one bad ass dude to be comfortable portraying the gimmick Adrian did, I'm sure he had to fight a few guys in his day who thought he was a wimp because of his character. I for one LOVE everything I've ever seen from Adrian Street, he was pure gold and one incredible wrestler from a technical standpoint.


Jones trained Regal, and he's definitely one of the best workers from WOS based on the footage I've seen of him. He's far more European in his approach, mixing matwork with strikes and big bumps/selling, compared to the more traditional british style that sees selling in a more subtle manner, compared to the theatrics of US wrestling. Still, he's a good gateway into WOS as his style is a precursor to what Regal and Finlay would utilise when they made it to America, and for fans struggling to adjust to the slower and nuanced british bouts, someone like Jones is a great introduction to fans struggling to deviate from their US wrestling habits. 

Yeah Street is a renowned tough bloke. His match against Jim Breaks from '72 is on youtube, and is one of the best matches I've ever seen. It starts out in a respectful manner, but they gradually build to Breaks becoming unsettled by Street's antics, and viciously targeting his left arm. Street sells the injury superbly, but it's his frustration and desperation attacks to offset Breaks' onslaught that really drives the story. Some of the counters are exceptional, and Street does a legbar takedown that looks straight out of MMA.

Another bloke renowned for his toughness, despite looks suggesting otherwise is Les Kellett. Kellett was a pure comedy worker in WOS, compared to the more authentic bouts of chain wrestling. However, there's stories of him deliberately taking unprotected face bumps out of the ring onto concrete to impress his opponents. As well as an instance where he got an infection on his hand, and had a wrestler stamp on his hand in the back to get the blood and puss out of it and allow him to wrestle that night. Follow that up with stories of him being asked to train people from other promotions and nearly separating their shoulder within a minute, and burning his own hand just so he could stick a man's head against a heater who dared to call wrestling fake, and you've got a pure headcase who really comes off as a nutter.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Streams are ok for matches, but for full shows/events I like to download and watch it at my leisure. Because fuck me sometimes I have to watch a show in about 6 different segments because it's too awful to watch all in one go . And sometimes I like to stick it on my media player and watch it on TV (like a big event, RR and WM usually).

And then when I'm doing my weekly videos I need to download them anyway so I can steal the footage 8*D.


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I watched two interviews from Nash and Goldberg a week apart on Thunder, as part of the build for the New Blood Rising three way with Steiner. Russo shooty-nonsense at its finest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





WOOLCOCK said:


> WWF references were terrible under Nash's booking tenure, but Russo again turned it up a notch. Ric Flair once tried to convince David Flair to come back to him and grow up and he could 'get him a job up in Stamford'. Yes, Flair actually used getting his son a gig in WWF as reason for him to stop fighting with him. Oklahoma was obviously an embarrassing shot at JR, you had Russo and Jarrett target JR in a promo for 'not seeing potential in Jarrett' (yeah JR really missed the boat on 'ol Double J). The whole thing was too obviously self-aware and winking to the audience, and it was just laughable. They literally promoted WWF as well as they could and more often than not referred to it as the better show. Just putrid stuff.
> 
> I read somewhere as well that WCW once did a survey either during Russo's first stint or before he returned in April of '00. The idea was to get an understanding of what the fans wanted to see. Unsurprisingly, more wrestling and less soap opera angles was the universal demand. It still tickles me that people cite Russo as a genius, because surely someone that smart would understand how writing for WCW differed from WWF at the time. WCW fans wanted wrestling, and Russo's sub five minute efforts and emphasis on talking and backstage segments was entirely the opposite of what the audience desired. Again, it's him instilling the only way he knows how to write despite it being counter-productive to a different company he's now working in.
> 
> Abysmal stuff and I outright consider '99-'00 WCW to be amongst the worst run of any wrestling company. Endlessly shit wrestling matches, with only a handful of promising matches, embarrassing gimmicks, storylines, a stacked roster pathetically used, gimmick matches devaluing PPVs by giving away so much on TV, just horrendous. Not even mentioning Russo's comedic wit, featuring such gems as 'Creative Control', 'Hugh E Rection', 'Major Gunns', 'Private Stash', 'Lieutenant Loco' (BECAUSE CHAVO IS MEXICAN HYUCK HYUCK HYUCK).


Fucking hell, this really does sound vile. Now I'm super glad my dad always stopped me from watching it when I was younger. Although this has made me want to check everything out on YouTube.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

CAL IS A THIEF.

Anyway, to celebrate the one year anniversary (8*D) of the Battleground PPV, I decided to give another watch, for the sake of it, to Rhodes Bros/Shield - the original. And it's still the most fucking amazing 2-on-2 tag the WWE have done since Powertrip/Ben & Jerry. That finishing stretch from Dusty busting the Bionic Elbow on Ambrose onwards will never stop being :mark:.

What's more amazing is that the No DQ rematch on Raw was *EVEN BETTER.*


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

MIA was a money gimmick


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those SI rants are surreal. Are those recent? b/c if I didn't read who posted I'd swear it was done by Cal or possibly Jheri. Although the former needs more caps & the latter would need WAY more esoteric remarks.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sFHypvLozU - Nash Interview (7/19/00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzY7nx7VJnw - Goldberg Interview (7/26/00) @ 1:04:00 onwards


I didn't even mention the absolute farce that was Flair vs Hogan from Uncensored '99 in a First Blood Steel Cage Match. This was under Nash's booking tenure, but digest this:

Flair was face and Hogan the heel. David Flair had been manipulated by Hogan to turn against Ric, whilst Arn Anderson tried to support Ric and reassure him David was a good kid who would come good in the end.

Match starts, and Flair is working his heel schtick, and Hogan his babyface formula. Confused? It gets worse.

Flair bleeds profusely within the first five minutes. It's a first blood match, and the ref can quite visibly see Flair bleeding everywhere. Match continues.

David Flair runs interference, which should be a heel interference to assist Hogan, the heel. Except Hogan is working face, and so a heel interference is actually assisting the babyface against the heel Flair, who was face heading into the match.

Arn Anderson then attacks David and brutalises him on the ramp. Arn, the guy telling face Ric that David was a good kid, decimates the lad for no apparent reason.

Flair, still bleeding, but the match continues.

Flair pins Hogan in the figure four, in a first blood cage match, having spent 10 minutes of the match visibly bleeding, but the match continuing.

A collective GO FUCK YOURSELF WCW. One of the absolute worst main events, and a truly comical and bizarre ending to a PPV.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> Those SI rants are surreal. Are those recent? b/c if I didn't read who posted I'd swear it was done by Cal or possibly Jheri. Although the former needs more caps & the latter would need WAY more esoteric remarks.


Posted yesterday


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao

flashbacks to when we dissected that match for a page or two back in a random TTT thread. We couldn't come to a logical conclusion of "why" any of it actually occurred.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was going to ask for any WCW comedy ppv moments and matches recs, I presume most would be from mid '99 - '01 lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

When did the Viagra On A Pole match took place?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

'01 is pretty good, tbhayley. Steiner vs Nash on PPV is joke-y. Other than that, it's all swell. Once Russo was removed in late '00, an improved was seen. Basically immediately.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Pinfall via submission in a first blood steel cage sounds tremendous.

I'd jump on watching that but I couldn't even stomach one WCW PPV when I added it to my wrestlecrap list. I have watched every available match for Konnan Big (a guy worse than Konnan), Blue Demon Jr, Rayo De Jalisco Jr, Los Hermanos Dinamita (as well as the single matches for Mascara and Universo - the latter of whom is possibly the most boring wrestler ever). I have seen a myriad of clusterfucks in Monterrey, inexcusable exotico/transvestite matches and the careers of Gronda and Groon XXX (the two worst wrestlers to exist). I even suffer through AAA events, sometimes. Despite THAT, I couldn't even make it through a single WCW show. Holy shit did that promotion suck. Poor, poor Cal.


Anyway, on a lighter note, why is Woolcock known as SI? I remember he used to be Segunda Caida but that's SC, obviously. What does SI stand for? Sheep Intimacy?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dunno why, but I'd quite like to watch some WCW 99-00 PPV wrestlecrap lol, any more i should check out along with that classic sounding Flair/Hogan match?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WCW has always had screwy finishes to matches. Like Sid Vs El Gigante in a stretcher match in like 91 that ended with a pinfall :lmao.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

As bad as that cage match between Flair and Hogan was in Uncensored 1999, it was still better than their other cage match at Halloween Havoc 1994.

On Paul Heyman's first night on the job as a commentator in the WWE in 2001, he informs us that Tongans "eat their own people". Meng proceeds to dropkick Undertaker.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Funnyfaces: I actually kind of like the Flair/Hogan cage match from HH 94'. Granted, I haven't seen ALL of their matches, but that one stands out as the one I like best out of those that I have seen 

WOOLCOCK: A first blood match that ends with a guy who is bleeding pinning a guy who ISNT bleeding?! For real? :lmao. I always thought the Hogan/Vader Strap match that somehow results in Ric Flair interfering and being dragged around to lose the match was the dirt worst when it came to WCW finishes. Boy, was I wrong.

Also, you sent me a link to that Jim Breaks/Adrian Street match from WoS a few months ago and that was the match that got me loving Street. I LOVE that match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that out of all the Flair/Hogan matches I've seen, the Halloween Havoc 1994 one is definitely the one that stands out the most.

I dived a little into the historial of Bound For Glory shows (WARNING: TNA STUFF), and remembered the 2011 one. Aries/Kendrick was badass as hell. But, is it just me, or that night, did Hogan and Sting managed to have a better match in 2011 than did in 1997? :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Timeline: The History of WWE – 1992“ with Bret Hart.






Coming this month.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Can't wait to hear Bret suck his own dick and shit over Flair .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hogan and Flair's only good match together was the one they had in 2002. Come to think of it, 2002 might be Hogan's best in ring year.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Anyway, on a lighter note, why is Woolcock known as SI? I remember he used to be Segunda Caida but that's SC, obviously. What does SI stand for? Sheep Intimacy?


My initials. When I first made an order from Seabs, I gave him my full name for delivery purposes. He proceeded to joke and say he'd call me SI from here on because WOOLCOCK was too much effort. Sure enough in the chatbox and in posts he'd label me SI and that gradually caught on with blarg, Cody, Bubz, the Aussie sports posters etc. Only a handful still came me WOOLCOCK, and shep is the only person to still call me segunda.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Funnyfaces: I actually kind of like the Flair/Hogan cage match from HH 94'. Granted, I haven't seen ALL of their matches, but that one stands out as the one I like best out of those that I have seen
> 
> WOOLCOCK: A first blood match that ends with a guy who is bleeding pinning a guy who ISNT bleeding?! For real? :lmao. I always thought the Hogan/Vader Strap match that somehow results in Ric Flair interfering and being dragged around to lose the match was the dirt worst when it came to WCW finishes. Boy, was I wrong.
> 
> Also, you sent me a link to that Jim Breaks/Adrian Street match from WoS a few months ago and that was the match that got me loving Street. I LOVE that match.


My absolute favourite is Sid Vicious losing a Falls Count Anywhere match by countout. It was in one of those Meltzer multi-quotes about WCW from back in the day, and it's exceptional. Its closest rival is the one about Dustin being flown into Nitro, only to be told he was not being used and could leave the arena. He was on a $750,000 a year contract.

Ahh, forgot I'd included that in the multi-link of matches I sent you. Glad to see it well received, it's exceptional.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hogan and Flair's only good match together was the one they had in 2002. Come to think of it, 2002 might be Hogan's best in ring year.


I didn't even remember that match existed. It was an entertaining match, for sure though.

But 2002 Hogan's best in ring year? Outside of the Rock, Flair and Lesnar matches (and to a lesser extent the Rock & Austin vs nWo tag), everything else he was on was terrible. Even 2005, when he only had like 5 matches and outside of the HBK match they weren't that good, was arguably better than it. Ok, maybe not, but still, 02 wouldn't be a choice for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What was Hogan/Jericho and Hogan/Angle like? Don't remember them but seen some people pimp them sometimes.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> As bad as that cage match between Flair and Hogan was in Uncensored 1999, it was still better than their other cage match at Halloween Havoc 1994.












Bitch you talk that way about my 4th favourite WCW match ever in that way again and I'll do horrific things to you.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> What was Hogan/Jericho and Hogan/Angle like? Don't remember them but seen some people pimp them sometimes.


Hogan/Jericho I thought was average, nothing too great and kinda forgettable but fun and a bit surprising to me (the way Hogan won let me :shocked, and Hogan/Angle is more or less the same as that (only that Hogan didn't even win ).

EDIT: HBK/Bulldog - KOTR '96 or One Night Only?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Easy, KOTR. One of my favorite WWF matches.

ONO will always leave a bad taste in the mouth.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hogan/Flair 94 matches are mostly great, with the cage being superb tbh.

Hogan in 02 was awful outside of Rock @ WM and Lesnar on SD. Don't think I'm missing anything out. Angle match was awful. Jericho match was dull. Tags were mostly mediocre at absolute best, but often shite. At least he put a bunch of people over .

KOTR is where it's at for HBK/Bulldog. Don't remember much about their ONO match. IYH match often gets shit on (I think?) but I remember enjoying it. And then the one in... 92 on SNME or something where HBK wins the IC title is solid.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I always enjoyed ONO because it was just so much more heated. You could tell the fans were getting more and more pissed, and then when DX finally screwed Davey Boy for the EC, I thought we would see some fans jump the guardrail and try to kill HBK. From an actual work standpoint, KotR is probably the better of the two, but I loved the booking for ONO, Davey had been untouchable in England for so many years and finally he gets screwed in front of his home town fans in a match he said he was going to win for his mentally handicapped sister. I mean, how much heat is that? It didn't really do Davey many favors, but Shawn was never hotter as a heel than he was coming out of that match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Apparently there aren't many ONO fans it seems. Big shame, I always thought that was a pretty good Main Event for a pretty great PPV (OWEN/VADER, HHH/DUDE, BRET/TAKER :mark. The booking of the match - especially DX screwing Davey and having HBK win the European Title and become the first Grand Slammer ever - was awesome imho. KOTR had better wrestling though.

And now for other one - Taker/Mankind from KOTR '96 or HHH/Mankind from Canadian Stampede?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Taker/Mankind by 1/2* or so. Their entire series was basically better than the HHH/Mankind series up until 2000.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I wouldn't say by 1/2*, about by 1/4* at best for me, but yes I agree. Another example of "outsider madness" is that Taker/Mankind KOTR '96, from other website reviews, I've seen getting ** ratings constantly, bitching about Mick's "uninteresting" offence. Which is pretty crazy for me as a huge Foley fanboy, but whatever.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Every Taker/Foley match was better than every HHH/Foley match except for the BRB up until they finally had 2 classics in 2000. And I still like pretty much every HHH/Foley match too. Except for maybe their SS cage match. Never got the love for it.

ARNOLD SWISHANNAGGER was on the SD I just watched. BEAT UP HHH :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Shield/Wyatt's (EC) for the first time since it aired, fuck this match is soooo great. It's just non fucking stop throughout. 

It's up there with anything the WWE has had in what, 10+ years?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. That still is one of the greatest matches arguably in company's history.

And it was outdone by Cesaro/Zayn IV less than a week later. 



#ROOT said:


> Every Taker/Foley match was better than every HHH/Foley match except for the BRB up until they finally had 2 classics in 2000. And I still like pretty much every HHH/Foley match too. Except for maybe their SS cage match. Never got the love for it.
> 
> ARNOLD SWISHANNAGGER was on the SD I just watched. BEAT UP HHH :mark:.


I would say their Buried Alive match was not better than the HHH/Cactus Falls Count Anywhere match, but I digress about every of their non-BRB others. Hell, the BRB isn't THAT bad. Yes, it's kinda dull, but not terrible imho.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure the love to the SS Cage match was because of the MAD bumps Foley took. And for the everything Foley did actually.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

That was a pretty good week for matches lol. EC had the 6 man and EC match. Raw had the 6 man re-match. NXT Arrival had Cesaro/Zayn. A bunch of ****+ matches (ish... I think I gave the chamber ***3/4, but close enough ). And there were probably a couple of other things I'm forgetting about too, though nothing quite on the level of those matches I mentioned.

BRB match SUCKS. Real hard. BA match is awesome. FCA is good but a tad overrated imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm now watching Cesaro/Cena from Raw.  

Regarding Cena, I much prefer watching his matches when he doesn't straight away revert to type, by doing the norm same old shit 3 or 4 moves.

I prefer it when he is made to fucking give a shit and work.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

6-man rematch? That was only the Monday 8 days AFTER the post-EC show. Not exactly in the same week 

If I were to rank the Taker/Foley matches, it would be like this:
KOTR '98 (****1/4) > KOTR '96 (****) > IYH 11 Buried Alive (****) > SVS '96 (***3/4) > IYH 14 Revenge Of The Taker (***3/4) > SS '96 (**) - Cal Scale total: 13.5

And the HHH/Foley matches:
RR '00 (*****) > NWO '00 (****1/2) > IYH 16 CS (****) > FCA Raw '97 (****) > ONO '97 (***3/4) > SS '97 (***3/4) > KOTR '97 (***1/4) - Cal Scale total: 36

So even though I probably love the Taker/Foley series the most, the numbers don't lie.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> 6-man rematch? That was only the Monday 8 days AFTER the post-EC show. Not exactly in the same week
> 
> If I were to rank the Taker/Foley matches, it would be like this:
> KOTR '98 (****1/4) > KOTR '96 (****) > IYH 11 Buried Alive (****) > SVS '96 (***3/4) > IYH 14 Revenge Of The Taker (***3/4) > SS '96 (**) - Cal Scale total: 13.5
> ...



IMHO you underrated most of the Foley/Taker matches. They were ALL great, yes even the BRB. Here are my ratings for those two feuds:

Foley vs Taker:

KotR 1996: ****1/2
SS 1996: ****
SVS 1996: ****
IYH Buried Alive: ****1/4
Revenge of the Taker: ****1/2 (best match of their feud, you SERIOUSLY underrated this one)
KotR 1998: ****1/2

Foley vs Trips:

KotR 1997: ***3/4
IYH CS: ****
SS 97': ****
ONO 97': ****
FCA Raw 97': ****1/4
RR 2000: *****
NWO 2000: ****1/2

Translation- Foley is God. Also, Mankind vs The Undertaker is my FAVORITE WWE feud ever. It's just the best, it really is. Plus, Foley was the first opponent given to the Undertaker that allowed Taker to show he was a truly great worker. Taker wasn't as good back then as he would be in later years, but he was still DAMN good he just never got put with anyone who could actually cut it. Once King of the Ring 1996 happened, it was all gravy from there. I like the Taker/Yoko matches, I really like the Taker/Diesel match from WM 12, but he never got a GREAT match until Foley came around and decided to bump around like a lunatic for Taker.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

If Foley and Taker weren't reduced to one spot in their HIAC, the match would've been ****1/2 (at least) imo. Falls Count Anywhere between H and Cactus is the bomb and ROTR between Taker/Foley is the best of the series.

1000th post, WOO WOO WOO.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> IMHO you underrated most of the Foley/Taker matches. They were ALL great, yes even the BRB. Here are my ratings for those two feuds:
> 
> Foley vs Taker:
> 
> ...


THAT STATEMENT I BOLDED COULDN'T BE MORE TRUE. FOLEY IS FUCKING GOD.

Thinking about it, I did REALLY underrate Revenge Of The Taker. I only remembered this PPV for the ratings I gave it back then (quite a lot of months ago), and I completely forgot that Taker/Mankind was that batshit crazy Hardcore match. I remembered it as very similar to KOTR '96 to some reason  I'd actually go ****, arguably ****1/4 for it. That being said, I still find that the KOTR '98 HIAC is the best match they had together. It's much more than just two giant spots tbh. And I don't find how the BRB is great. Yes, it's got some great storytelling in it. But it is DULL AS HELL. Jesus Christ. ** is too low and I underrated, but tbh I wouldn't give it more than ***. The Mankind/Show BRB eats that one alive.

But back to what it really matters - that MICK FOLEY IS A FUCKING GOD. Let's not even begin to talk about his Vader, Austin or HBK matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

****3/4 for ROTT on last watch. Absolutely tremendous match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Orton/Cena match from Feb is still really, really good IMO. That's two Cena matches I've enjoyed today lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh I don't think I watched that. Then again, after their Royal Rumble DUD, I'm skeptical to ever watch another Orton/Cena match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> My initials. When I first made an order from Seabs, I gave him my full name for delivery purposes. He proceeded to joke and say he'd call me SI from here on because WOOLCOCK was too much effort. Sure enough in the chatbox and in posts he'd label me SI and that gradually caught on with blarg, Cody, Bubz, the Aussie sports posters etc. Only a handful still came me WOOLCOCK, and shep is the only person to still call me segunda.


Gonna need to start calling you that long La Parka name I coined for ya. I'll look it back up to know all the details. But it rules. Totally put myself over w/it.

I was going to ask elsewhere but do you _(or Jheri, Rah, or possibly even Andy if he appears - see elsewhere)_ know of any good Silver King matches? b/c I've been having fun w/his WCW work & I just have to hope he has at least one good brawl in Mexico. He seems the type. Probs not the best guy around either outside of the brisk WCW format, but hell. Lucha aficionados should give me the scoop.



The Fab Four said:


> Orton/Cena match from Feb is still really, really good IMO. That's two Cena matches I've enjoyed today lol.


they've had the same match 400x. one of 'em was bound to earn a fan.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Boiler Room Brawl was really boring in the first half, and then fun in the second. KOTR 96 went down for me on a rewatch. Foley's offense didn't really go anywhere. Still a great match, but ot their best like I once thought. ROTT match is the one we all should take turns raving about. And Survivor Series match was solid. But with that said,the numbers don't lie like ATF said. HHH feud ruled. Summerslam match especially. Among Foley's best babyface showings. Wonder how the Vader matches compare.

Speaking of which, the fact that Craig cannot think of more than three WCW Vader matches better than Hogan/Flair is a damn crime. How dare you call yourself a wrestling fan :henry1

I liked Taker/Hogan from JD 02. Found it fun.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Personally think the BRB is shitty and that a lot of you overrate the Taker/Mankind series a bit 

KOTR 96: ****
SS 96: **
SVS 96: ***3/4 
BA: ****1/4 
ROTT: ****1/4 
KOTR 98: ****

still a fucking great feud, but I just dont think every match is over 4 stars


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Every match is a thousand stars, smiley faces, & ecstasy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

SummerSlam match especially, ff? You think that the Cage match was better than any of their 2000 matches? To each his own, but I thought the Cage match, while fucking great, was only like their 6th best match together (like their RR, NWO, CS, ONO and FCA matches over it).

And speaking of ONO, has there ever been a UK PPV that even came close to it? I guess the closest thing would be SS 1992, and that is pretty much literally a two-match show (Savage/Warrior and Bret/Bulldog), albeit a great one at that.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Gonna need to start calling you that long La Parka name I coined for ya. I'll look it back up to know all the details. But it rules. Totally put myself over w/it.
> 
> I was going to ask elsewhere but do you _(or Jheri, Rah, or possibly even Andy if he appears - see elsewhere)_ know of any good Silver King matches? b/c I've been having fun w/his WCW work & I just have to hope he has at least one good brawl in Mexico. He seems the type. Probs not the best guy around either outside of the brisk WCW format, but hell. Lucha aficionados should give me the scoop.


*La Parka's Trecera Caida Bloodbath* 

Haven't seen all of these, but these were the first few I came across on a Lucha blog:

Mocho Cota, Felino & Kahoz vs. Silver King, El Texano & La Fiera, (8/22/95)
***** Casas, Black Warrior & Emilio Charles Jr vs. Mr.Niebla, El Dandy & Silver King, (9/6/96)
Emilio Charles Jr. vs. Silver King, Hair vs. Hair (9/27/96)
Mystico De La Juarez/Silver King/Rubi Gardenia v. Cassandro/Magno/El Hijo Del Santo, Lucha Libre London, (12/9/08)
Santo/Dandy/Silver King vs Casas/Satanico/Dantes, (2/10/96)
Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/El Texano/La Fiera/Mascara Magica/Mr. Niebla/Shocker vs Black Warrior/El Dandy/Felino/Mano Negra/***** Casas/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, (3/28/97)
Silver King vs Apolo Dantes, (6/23/95)
Atlantis/Brazo De Oro/El Dandy/Mascara Magica/La Fiera/***** Casas/Shocker/Ultimo Dragon vs Black Warrior/Dr. Wagner Jr./El Hijo Del Santo/Felino/Kevin Quinn/Satanico/Scorpio Jr./Silver King, (4/18/97)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Every match is a thousand stars, smiley faces, & ecstasy.


Bartender, give my friend in the Gaga t-shirt a round on me!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh I definitely don't think that. The 2000 matches are GOAT. The NWO match in particular got my little brother to love Foley. But I think #3 might go to the SS match. Something about it really resonated with me. Perhaps it was the build-up to the match. Or that it was different from their brawls.

Silver King's biggest match was against Apollo Dantes on 6/23/95. There's also the Miguel Perez match in September of that year.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Levesque/Foley HIAC sux.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

SS match is great imo, but FCA is the TOPS outside of the two PPV matches in 2000. here are my ratings for HHH/Foley

KOTR 97: ***3/4 
IYH: ****
SS: ****
ONO: ****1/4 
FCA: ****1/2 
RR: *****
HIAC: ****1/2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WOOLCOCK said:


> *La Parka's Trecera Caida Bloodbath*
> 
> Haven't seen all of these, but these were the first few I came across on a Lucha blog:
> 
> ...




Sir, you've never failed me yet.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Bartender, give my friend in the Gaga t-shirt a round on me!


:banderas


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Chismo said:


> Levesque/Foley HIAC sux.


BLASPHEMY.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Just finished watching RotT for the first time. Damn what a match. That table bump was SICK. As Hayley said, a thousand stars, and smiley faces. Pretty obvious Mick was kicking out of the chokeslam at the end but I still marked for it.

Funny that the ppv is named after that match but it doesn't go on last (I understand why it doesn't, just amusing to me).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Eh. Don't think it sucks, but Foley vs H HIAC does leave a bit to be desired.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

ATF said:


> BLASPHEMY.


So, you liked the painfully obvious attempts at recreating the KOTR '98 magic? IS THAT WHAT UR SAYIN?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

YES IT IS. AND FOR PAINFULLY OBVIOUS ATTEMPTS, THEY WERE AWESOME. It's not like this had the WCW Triple Cage bump. Ya people don't know whatcha talkin' bout. HHH/Foley HIAC features like one of the all-time great performances for both Triple H and Mick Foley imho.

And I'm feeling dirty right now for putting Bret/Austin as the MOTN of ROTT in my list instead of Taker/Mankind the more I think about it.

EDIT: Or maybe not. 8*D


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Bret vs. Austin WM13 is the right choice. Perfect storytelling, perfect pacing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I have that as the greatest match of all time (at least for WWE), so yeah. 

As a matter of fact, remembering things as they are, ranking the Bret/Austin PPV trilogy:
WM 13 (*****) > SVS '96 (****3/4) > ROTT (****) - Cal Scale total = 22

Now, how about a Top 5 In Your House matches?


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

WOOLCOCK said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sFHypvLozU - Nash Interview (7/19/00)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzY7nx7VJnw - Goldberg Interview (7/26/00) @ 1:04:00 onwards
> 
> ...


I've seen you or possibly moops post about that match before I think, but my god it sounds almost so bad it's good.

And those videos. Jesus wept. I thought the Nash one was bad but then that Goldberg one was maybe the worst thing I've ever seen.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not much of a fan of Austin vs Bret from Revenge. Their brawl non-match on RAW is better "third" bout in their series.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, that awesome "Street Fight" segment from April 21st 97. The entire thing is definitely one of Raw's greatest moments ever imo. Austin himself is the greatest thing that ever happened to that show. He's been involved in at least 90% of the biggest highlights of Raw throughout history.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

That may be my favorite moment from my wrestling childhood. Seeing Austin destroy Bret and in the process injuring Bret's ankle (well Bret injured that, clumsy fucker) and wrist was heaven. Chairshots in the corner were also so fucking brutal.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Ambrose/Rollins is a current house show programme and, of course, there's potential:






Still seems within its infancy, and they're definitely gauging the crowds reactions to certain spots and sequences (more visual cues than you'd expect from these two). Enough of a teaser to make the obvious call that their PPV blow-off will rock. Main event of the show is Reigns/Wyatt in a street fight - which I'm in two minds about watching. Great that the video lasts for half an hour, though, as giving Reigns lengthy matches on house shows should be a step in the right direction for him.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

About to watch Rollins/Ambrose (FCW 09.18.2011) match. Watching the contract signing first.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

All of them in order. So worth the time.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> All of them in order. So worth the time.


Good point. I may hold off until I have more time to watch them all tbh.


----------



## Craig (Jan 27, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Speaking of which, the fact that Craig cannot think of more than three WCW Vader matches better than Hogan/Flair is a damn crime



Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I have different tastes and love BANDANNA STUFFING (came oddly close to writing banana stuffing there but that's what I do when I go the local gay club, maybe Hogan does it too) who knows, homogenization of opinions in this thread and all that. Heads would explode if I were to tell people I don't think Flair/Steamboat Wrestlewar and Clash are top 20 WCW matches, EXPLODE I TELL YE.

Vader/Flair from Starrcade 93 is above it for the record. However none of the Vader/Foley matches would even crack my top 50 even if they are two of my top 5 ever. Have I said fuck the Texas Deathmatch in here lately?

If not fuck the Texas Deathmatch.

Also fuck Cena/Umaga LMS while we're at it... and Jericho/Michaels Ladder match.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Agreed with the latter. Umaga/Cena, though, is timeless.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Ambrose/Rollins is a current house show programme and, of course, there's potential:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree they are smart by sticking Reigns in long singles matches at house shows, he can only get better by doing that. I don't think, however, that giving him a gimmick match with Bray Wyatt is the best idea. For one, both are still relatively new to the wrestling biz. For two, relying on a street fight gimmick won't necessarily help him hone his skills as much in the areas he needs improving. I'd much prefer them to stick him in straight up singles contests with someone like Cesaro or ADR, guys that are veterans who have wrestled all around the world and can call the match and help teach him a thing or two. Hell, now that Jericho is back, they should stick Reigns with him at all the house shows that Chris works to give him some help. That's really the only way you get better at wrestling, by wrestling someone who is better than you.

Or better yet, Finlay is still an agent, have him dust off the old wrestling boots and go a few rounds with young Roman. That is the equivelant of getting a PHD in wrestling.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And while we're at it - why don't they make Roman do an appearance on the next NXT PPV given how he's a "NXT legend" p - more like a prospect of NXT that worked so far) and have him take on Regal in one of the Main Events?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> ****3/4 for ROTT on last watch. Absolutely tremendous match.


I thought you were rating yourself for a second there, *ROOT*. 

Watched Punk/Lesnar for the first time in a few months and it's still a five star match in my book. I love how the pace never halts and it's just a relentless brawl from start to finish, rarely do any matches go along that formula, there's always some kind of stoppage that interrupts the flow. Some would say you need to spread out the goodness with filler crap to eat up match time but If you can fill the entire match with excitement inducing content, point in case relentless brawling, then you've truly got something special. I can't imagine the cardio needed for such a match, kudos to Punk, Lesnar and Heyman. 

StuckinHell4life, I don't what you're trying to say in your reps to me. John didn't fit into the allocated username space, so I shortened it to Jon and thus disgraced THE GREAT JOHN MARSTON. I'm so ashamed, let's never speak of this again.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> And while we're at it - why don't they make Roman do an appearance on the next NXT PPV given how he's a "NXT legend" p - more like a prospect of NXT that worked so far) and have him take on Regal in one of the Main Events?



If there was such a thing as an NXT "Legend", it would be Sami Zayn. He's the man down there, and has been since that show started airing. Sami Zayn vs William Regal, that could be an amazing match. Or Zayn vs Reigns.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

WOOLCOCK said:


> I didn't even mention the absolute farce that was Flair vs Hogan from Uncensored '99 in a First Blood Steel Cage Match.


I watched this in 2012. It wasn't a horrible match until the ending. I didn't know about the pinfall and wasn't even surprised because WCW.

Anyone remember the match Malenko had with Kidman, I think? The rules were if your feet touch the floor outside the ring you lose? And Malenko goes out to take a breather after like 15 seconds and loses? I'm starting to wonder if that was or wasn't actually the written finish of the match.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> I was going to ask elsewhere but do you _(or Jheri, Rah, or possibly even Andy if he appears - see elsewhere)_ know of any good Silver King matches? b/c I've been having fun w/his WCW work & I just have to hope he has at least one good brawl in Mexico. He seems the type. Probs not the best guy around either outside of the brisk WCW format, but hell. Lucha aficionados should give me the scoop.


Bunch of tags I could give you but he wouldn't stand out in most of them. Dunno about singles matches. Silver King was a guy I hated for a while so I never looked his shit up. I'm not even really sure why I hated him....I didn't even think he sucked. Guess he just bugged me. Ohtani's Jacket likes a couple of singles a ton but they weren't on the 96 yearbook. One might be on the 95 yearbook, IDR. I think SI listed them anyway.

Did recently upload this, maybe one of the best tag matches I've ever seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXS2AU0KdG8


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Yeah1993 said:


> Silver King was a guy I hated for a while so I never looked his shit up. I'm not even really sure why I hated him....


I remember seeing him in the CotC tag tournament in 92. He seemed really stiff and boring. I'd be shocked if he could do anything good.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Based on one match?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Yes, sir.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dude will forever be immortalized thanks to Chris Jericho.

Guys go watch that six man tag that Yeah1993 uploaded. ***** Casas is hilarious in it. And seeing Mexicans teaming together to stomp on someone else is always hilarious. Especially when La Parka does it, even if he isn't part of that match. There's also a really cool double facebuster spot that should be done more often in tag matches. Who is this Rambo dude? He was really fun to watch here too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I think Rambo's mainly known for having a lot of apuesta matches with Villano III. Well that's how I know him, anyway.  They have decently well known matches in 87, 93, 01, 03 I think... 

Looking on Luchawiki now he was apparently "the Mercenary" in 1992 WWF?


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Reigns isnt an NXT legend, he never was in NXT :lol


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Been watching WCW from late 98 onward, im up to the night after Slamboree 2000 and am continuing to watch purely out of morbid curiosity.



Yeah1993 said:


> I watched this in 2012. It wasn't a horrible match until the ending. I didn't know about the pinfall and wasn't even surprised because WCW.
> 
> Anyone remember the match Malenko had with Kidman, I think? The rules were if your feet touch the floor outside the ring you lose? And Malenko goes out to take a breather after like 15 seconds and loses? I'm starting to wonder if that was or wasn't actually the written finish of the match.


It was a dungeon rules match, part of the "triple threat theater". 2nd match was Kidman/Saturn in a bunkhouse match and 3rd was Kidman/Wall in a cage match.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Haven't been on in a while, but I enjoyed RAW for the most part though.

Swagger/Rusev promo, Jericho's return & the Seth Rollins tease :mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

So apparently Santino retired at a house show tonight after getting another injury, always thought the guy brought some good laughs and thats a shitty way to go out


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Reigns isnt an NXT legend, he never was in NXT :lol


yes, he was. just before the Shield debuted.

http://www.wwe.com/videos/cj-parker-vs-roman-reigns-wwe-nxt-oct-31-2012-26064897

http://www.wwe.com/videos/chase-donovan-vs-roman-reigns-wwe-nxt-nov-14-2012-26068645


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Praise the lord, Adam Rose stole his job anyways.

Now we just need Kofi to get a career ending injury :hmm:


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

MoxleyMoxx said:


> yes, he was. just before the Shield debuted.
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/cj-parker-vs-roman-reigns-wwe-nxt-oct-31-2012-26064897
> 
> http://www.wwe.com/videos/chase-donovan-vs-roman-reigns-wwe-nxt-nov-14-2012-26068645


:what?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> Bunch of tags I could give you but he wouldn't stand out in most of them. Dunno about singles matches. Silver King was a guy I hated for a while so I never looked his shit up. I'm not even really sure why I hated him....I didn't even think he sucked. Guess he just bugged me. Ohtani's Jacket likes a couple of singles a ton but they weren't on the 96 yearbook. One might be on the 95 yearbook, IDR. I think SI listed them anyway.
> 
> Did recently upload this, maybe one of the best tag matches I've ever seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXS2AU0KdG8


May have been the wackiest match ever seen. Felt like Lucha in a nutshell. Guys hitting each other hard. Theatrics that can sometimes appear as comical. Referee fuckery that makes you question if they even know what they're doing. But plz tell me there was a Casas vs Hamada singles match out there.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Not that I've ever heard of. AFAIK, Casas' early 90s Japan journey led to a match against Asai, Guerrero and two fun/spotty Liger matches.

Silver King's the kinda guy that isn't a truly great worker in the standard, talent sense but someone, I think, oozes quite a lot of charisma for a luchador guy. I can't imagine what he was like in WCW but, around that time, he and Texano were ruling the tag world as Los Cowboys. I'd jump on Woolcock's recommendations, but there's a couple tags from mid-90s CMLL that I imagine are breathtaking to witness, even if not for his own performances. Dandy, Casas, Santo and Satanico in ONE match is enough of a sell, right?! I'm sure Texano/King against Can-Am Express is another sell, too, but it's really not as good as that sounds on paper. Novelty view, if you must. King and his brother, Wagner Jr., also made it onto the DVDVR Japanese poll in 2001. Nothing overly great, but it's a nice enough match, regardless. Guy remained a breath of fresh air in horrible Gronda/Cibernetico/Pimpinella tags across AAA's recent tenure.

I've been struggling to find that UWA match Yeah upped for ages. I really need to look through his list of videos, because it may save me a helluva lot of aggro in future. I've heard people praise it to death, and I've seen it down as a 5-star match somewhere. Not sure it will be _that_ good, but go in expecting fun and you'll love it (okay, I see you've watched it already). Rambo isn't terrible, but he does have a problem in looking fluid. I get the sense that he does try hard, at times, but dammit if he doesn't degrade the segments he's in over the matches I've watched.


More to the point... he had two aspuesta matches against LA Park in 2005 or 2007. I know one of them was under the Black Tiger gimmick, so it must have been his mask match. IIRC, it starts off pretty co-operative and doesn't go into Parka-styled HATE~! but it does have Parka jumping up and down and destroying a chair after he got wholloped with it. FUN.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

William Murderface said:


> Praise the lord, Adam Rose stole his job anyways.
> 
> Now we just need Kofi to get a career ending injury :hmm:


That's too much to ask for, the WWE still needs someone to do crazy bumps at Battle Royals and nothing else of worth (foreshadowing for Battleground, this is? 8*D)!

But tbh Santino actually has been involved in some good stuff over the past few years. I remember enjoying the hell out of that product placement segment w/Austin in '07 (though I like almost everything Austin's in anyways, so yeah), I liked his Honk-a-meter, and I remember liking the match he had vs Cesaro in the SummerSlam 2012 pre-show, seriously underrated imo. And of course, it sucks that one is forced to retire prematurely as well.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I fucking swear there was a Silver King match from 2001 New Japan I liked a lot come to think of it. I want to say it was against Liger but I don't know if I can find evidence of this match even existing. Anyone know what I'm thinking of?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*Dolph Ziggler vs Cesaro (24/05/2014 WWE Live @ Berlin)* - if house show Cesaro was popping up on a near weekly basis, he'd be back to running as the surefire worker of the year. WWE ran this match a good few times across the European tour, but this is the least clipped out of all of them. What we're left with is still just over ten minutes of Cesaro greatness.

It's always rather odd watching a live show, considering how different the wrestlers can be on them. More fun, usually, if not a little less constrained and prone to overdoing a couple things. That's probably a little true with a couple moments here in Cesaro over-extending his running uppercut irish-whip spot. It's a fun enough spot to witness, and it acts as a good build into the nearfall that the German natives buy into, but it's not something I particularly want from Cesaro nor a good match. Still, there's enough meat here to salivate over even if it isn't overly great. This is a Cesaro formula match to the tee, and Ziggler has some cool wrestling ideas that Cesaro can branch off of and make the guy look credible with and hide his tendencies in. Super duper fun live show and Cesaro being CESARO for once.



*The Shield vs Wyatt Family (16/03/2014 WWE Live @ Dallas)* - I could watch these guys go all day. Pretty much every house show match of theirs only goes just under 10 minutes but it plays out as a compacted tribute to their epics on television. I'm beginning to see that house show matches are heavily formulaic. Of course I won't expect a new match each and every time these guys square off - that'd be ludicrous - and we're not truly meant to be witnessing the "non-canon" matches, anyway. Quite honestly, though, this match is spot for spot similar to their match a week later in the Raw dark main event as well as the Waco house show bout. Pity I lost the other Shield/Wyatt link as that went a lot longer and seemed wholly different while I was skimming through. But alas...

Tough break on Ambrose following Seth's FIP, as the kids wanted none of his comebacks and were just screaming for Roman the entire time. Tougher break for us as the video cuts just before Roman's hot tag and the Nigel Lariat (it plays on the Raw dark main). We're still left with a fine enough hot start by Rollins, and a great Ambrose FIP/hot tag sequence that was only enhanced by Bray being so great. Laughed at a woman going "okay, that's creepy, that's really creepy" as soon as he did his weird walk. May the Sun never set on all six of these guys, because I'd fear the night we'd be left with.





Yeah1993 said:


> I fucking swear there was a Silver King match from 2001 New Japan I liked a lot come to think of it. I want to say it was against Liger but I don't know if I can find evidence of this match even existing. Anyone know what I'm thinking of?



Liger/King was in the Super Juniors of '01. I can try upload it, if you want.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought it was Liger. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I liked that a lot.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Goldberg vs Diamond Dalls Page (WCW Halloween Havic 1998)*

Taken from the Nitro broadcast the night after the PPV.



Always a favorite WCW match if mine.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Goldberg/DDP HH '98 was my first ever WCW match actually, and even today, I adore it  Best match of both men's careers, may I dare to say.

Here's an interesting combo - Benoit/Jericho Backlash '00 or Benoit/Angle Backlash '01?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Rah said:


> Silver King's the kinda guy that isn't a truly great worker in the standard, talent sense but someone, I think, oozes quite a lot of charisma for a luchador guy. I can't imagine what he was like in WCW but, around that time, he and Texano were ruling the tag world as Los Cowboys. I'd jump on Woolcock's recommendations, but there's a couple tags from mid-90s CMLL that I imagine are breathtaking to witness, even if not for his own performances. Dandy, Casas, Santo and Satanico in ONE match is enough of a sell, right?!


Tbh off hand I've only seen a few of those matches I listed. I just searched OJ's Lucha blog and listed any match that received a form of praise past 'good'. He's not THE authoritative figure on Lucha, but he's seen a tremendous amount of footage and usually has a good rate of recommending trios matches I enjoy 



Rah said:


> I'm beginning to see that house show matches are heavily formulaic.


Watch Regal/Bourne from '11 if you haven't already seen it. Great match and one of my favourites from WWE that year. Bryan/Regal had match in Austria around the same time but I thought this exceeded it by quite a margin. They work some really great WOS exchanges based on Bourne using his agility to try and escape from Regal's trickery holds, and they do one of my favourite spots where Regal keeps hold of a wristlock relentlessly as Bourne tries escape after escape. Regal takes over and gives a typical performance in terms of peppering Bourne with brutal strikes, but he also gets to showcase his pantomine act in front of the live crowd, such as a great moment when he offers Bourne his hand and turns to the crowd to motion for them to shut up as they yell for Bourne not to fall into his trap. Finishing sequence IIRC is rather compact and quick, but they do such a good job establishing the opening and middle that it feels like a satisfying finish.

Match is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4DAhRtnTY


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Yeah1993 said:


> I watched this in 2012. It wasn't a horrible match until the ending. I didn't know about the pinfall and wasn't even surprised because WCW.
> 
> Anyone remember the match Malenko had with Kidman, I think? The rules were if your feet touch the floor outside the ring you lose? And Malenko goes out to take a breather after like 15 seconds and loses? I'm starting to wonder if that was or wasn't actually the written finish of the match.



Also possible that Malenko knew he was leaving for WWF the next night and just gave no fucks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been making my way through this set recently:



Spoiler: Volk Han: His Complete Fights



HISTORY OF VOLK HAN 

By Tabe

DISC 1: 
12/7/91: vs Akira Maeda - Han debuts in this excellent match 
3/5/92: vs Genaddy Gigant 
4/3/92: vs Akira Maeda - Maeda makes Han a superstar, jobbing to him in just his third match 
5/16/92: vs Grom Zaza 
6/25/92: vs Herman Renting 
7/16/92: vs Andrei Kopylov - fabulous mat-based match with maybe the most-ignored excellent wrestler of the last 15 years (Kopylov). 
8/21/92: vs Dick Vrij 
10/29/92: vs Akira Maeda 
12/19/92: vs Sotir Gotchev 
2/28/93: Submission Demonstration - dressed in his army fatigues - Han was a legit self-defense instructor in the Soviet army - 
Han demonstrates a number of submissions here. Very cool. 

DISC 2: 
3/5/93: vs Andrei Kopylov 
4/24/93: vs Mitsuya Nagai - Basically just a Volk Han submission demo. Awesome! 
7/13/93: vs Dick Vrij 
10/23/93: vs Masayuki Naruse 
11/18/93: vs Nikolai Zouev 
12/8/93: vs Pavel Orlov 
1/21/94: vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto - Yamamoto would go on to become an excellent worker but here he's just along for the ride - 
and it's a fun one for the viewer. 
4/23/94: vs Bitsadze Tariel 
5/17/94: vs Mitsuya Nagai 
6/18/94: vs Akira Maeda 
7/14/94: vs Hans Nyman 
10/22/94: vs ANdrei Kopylov 
12/16/94: vs Hans Nyman 

DISC 3: 
12/24/94: vs Mitsuya Nagai 
1/25/95: vs Akira Maeda - Biggest win of Han's career, the Finals of the Mega Battle Tournament 
3/18/95: vs Nikolai Zouev - Zouev is one of Han's best opponents. He's another non-threatening Russian dude who surprises with his tremendous skill. 
4/28/95: vs Masayuki Naruse 
6/17/95: vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto 
7/17/95: vs Tony Halme 
8/27/95: vs Bitsadze Tariel 
9/22/95: vs Akira Maeda 
11/16/95: vs Andrei Kopylov 
12/19/95: vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto 
1/24/96: vs Hans Nyman 


DISC 4: 
3/25/96: vs Dick Vrij 
4/26/96: vs Nikolai Zouev 
5/25/96: vs Hans Nyman - Han refuses to break his submission hold, even after the ref repeatedly pounds on his back, so Dick Vrij comes running in 
and punts Han in the head. All hell breaks loose after that, with punches thrown and debris tossed into the ring. Not real sure why Han did what he did... 
6/29/96: vs Mitsuya Nagai 
7/16/96: vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka - well on its way to being a classic when it's ended early by a legit KO 0.00000000 
8/24/96: vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka - the rematch! Also a great match. 
9/25/96: vs Kiyoshi Tamura - First in what has become a legendary series of matches with Tamura. Great stuff. 
10/25/96: vs Masayuki Naruse - Naruse DRILLS Han with a vicious spinning backhand to the jay so Han, in a rare moment of anger, tosses him over the top rope! 
11/22/96: vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 
12/21/96: vs Bitsadze Tariel 
1/22/97: vs Kiyoshi Tamura - Han snags his second Mega Battle tournament win in another great match with Tamura. 


DISC 5: 
4/22/97: vs Akira Maeda 
5/23/97: vs Joop Kasteel 
8/13/97: vs Yoshihisa Yamamoto 
9/26/97: vs Kiyoshi Tamura 
10/25/97: vs Andrei Kopylov 
11/20/97: vs Dick Vrij 
12/23/97: vs Mikhail Ilioukhine - Great match until Han legit injures his leg, ending it early. I can't help but think he was scheduled to win in order to 
setup another match with Tamura in the Mega Battle Finals on 1/21/98 - the next rematch with Tamura would never occur, unfortunately. 
1/21/98: vs Akira Maeda 
4/16/98: vs Akira Maeda 
5/29/98: vs Tsuyoshi Kohsaka 
7/20/98: vs Kenichi Yamamoto 
8/28/98: vs Bitsadze Tariel - Han takes a pounding here in a rare squash 


DISC 6: 
10/23/98: vs Dick Vrij - short match from RINGS' ill-fated attempt to change the Mega Battle tourney into a team format; bad idea 
10/23/98: vs Joop Kasteel 
1/23/99: vs Hiromitsu Kanehara 
2/21/99: vs Nikolai Zouev 
5/22/99: vs Masayuki Naruse 
6/15/00: vs Brandon Lee Hinkle 
12/22/00: vs Lee Hasdell - That Volk Han, he's a submissions-only guy. Can't strike. *POW*! Out go the lights for Mr. Hasdell. 
12/22/00: vs Bobby Hoffman 
2/24/01: vs Antonio Nogueira - Greatest Worked Submission Guy vs Greatest Legit Submission Guy. Something of a dream match. 
4/6/01: vs Andrei Kopylov 
5/12/01: vs Grom Zaza (Lithuania) 
2/15/02: vs Andrei Kopylov - Han's last match. This is done as an exhibition in the "old RINGS rules" on RINGS' final show in Japan. 
Fun to see these two go at it one last time



I know im late getting into Han, but fuck i love this shit. Im only through Disc 1 atm, but im already appreciating him greatly. Even in his debut match, he shown some great strikes and takedowns, the Zaza and Kopylov matches are my fav so far, although Maeda is great too. 

Vrij one was a tough one for Han, he seemed a tough fucker who just wouldn't take any shit, but Han found a way.

Major :mark: so far.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey JD 07 showed up today, finally. Only 2 days late after I had to re-order it after they sent the wrong thing :side:. Also got Unforgiven 04 (£1.50 in CEX today while I was in town), ONS 07, Vengeance: Night Of Champions 2007 and No Mercy 2007. I does believe that's me got all 2007 PPV's now. Yey?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Since Battleground is coming up I had a strange urge to rewatch the meaningful stuff from last year's show:

*World Heavyweight Title - Hardcore Rules*
Alberto Del Rio (c) vs. Rob Van Dam - ** 3/4
_The main problem with this was the pacing and structure. Most of the time they seemed to do nothing in between spots. Luckily the last several minutes after Ricardo got involved were a blast. Good match but nothing to go out of your way to see. I believe I still like their NOC match better despite the shitty ending._

*Rhodes Family Careers on the Line*
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes & Goldust - *** 3/4
_The promo that that the entire Rhodes family gives before the match (specifically Cody) still gives me chills. Wonderful stuff. This match is still a boatload of fun but my rating has always been the same. The whole match is literally all about the Rhodes family. The Shield offer no bits of standout material throughout. It's so strange. They did an excellent job of hiding the Shield's strengths and accentuating everything Cody & Dustin could do. (Y) for that. Crowd was going bonkers by the end._

CM Punk vs. Ryback - ** 1/4
_Most of this is super flat while Ryback is on offense. Takes a while for the crowd to get into it, there's a couple decent portions near the end, Punk takes 5 minutes setting up for a Macho elbow, Heyman has to get involved for Ryback to get any reaction from the crowd at all, and then we get a shitty ending. Meh_

*Vacant WWE Championship*
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - ***
_This was better than what I remembered watching it live, but I still just can't get into it that much. I can't put my finger on why. Maybe it's the extremely slow start, maybe it's the dead crowd throughout the first half, maybe it's the fact that I've seen these guys wrestle 15 times, idk. Either way they're actually able to put together a solid match and drag the crowd back into it, but I still can't get over the shitty ending they pulled. Makes the whole match worthless. When these guys have 14 other matches together, why even watch this one, ya know?_

Still a pretty weak PPV with two head scratchers for endings. I also watched Wyatt vs. Kofi, which isn't actually that bad, but the crowd was dead. It's also strange watching it nowadays when you know Wyatt should've squashed him. 2nd worst PPV of the year in my books behind Night of Champions, although I never saw Royal Rumble and I'm sure that would sneak in there.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I guarantee you, Royal Rumble was the worst PPV of 2013. Outside of the 30-Man RR, which while a very good match was average as a Rumble, everything sucked. Punk/Rock especially, which was a fucking DUD. Night Of Champions AT LEAST had the Shield's decentish stuff and Orton/Bryan was a serviceable Main Event. The Rumble was imo only third to 1997 and 2006 as the worst Royal Rumble PPV ever. Battleground would come in at 3rd out of the worst of last year for me.

Oh, and Cal, out of the five new shows you have, only one of them is good - No Mercy '07. Unforgiven '04 is very below average and the trilogy of horrors of 07 (Judgment Day - One Night Stand - Vengeance) is, well, a trilogy of horrors. ONS would be the better of the three and even still it was pretty bad. And yet somehow SummerSlam and Unforgiven from the same year were even worse.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Backlash 2008 Main Event is mediocre stuff, they just needed to disregard both JBL and Cena to put us through another Hunter vs Orton affair. I don't even mind most of their matches, actually think the Rumble 05 match was pretty darn good, unlike most.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH/Orton RR 05 is awesome. Best match they had together aside from NM LMS and MAYBE the Raw LMS. I'd have to re-watch the Raw match again to decide.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. And one of only two not bad singles matches they've ever had (the other being the first of their two No Mercy '07 matches, though that is not "good" as much as it is just decent).

Ok though, EVERYBODY stop what you're doing and do what I just did - rewatch Hornswoggle vs El Torito WeeLC. It may be the most absurd, ridiculous and insane match the WWE thought of in years, and in a "technical mentality" pretty bad, but it's still the funnest and most straight up entertaining match since fucking Hell No & Ryback vs Shield from TLC 2012 (obviously there have been many way better matches, but this was more fun than them). The little announcers were actually funny (w/awesome lines like "El Torito is the biggest bull since Michael Jordan", "don't forget to download the WWE App", e.g.), the spots were crazy, and the match is 11 minutes but it totally feels like 5, time just FLIES by. It was better than all but two matches in the actual Extreme Rules card (Shield/Evolution and Bryan/Kane). Jesus Christ :lmao


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

No way was the rumble the worst show of 2013, the rumble was awesome. NOC literally had nothing except for the ok main event that wasn't as good as the rumble 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2013 RR event was shite. SHITE. Best match was the actual Rumble match and I only have it at ***1/4.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dude, ADR/Show was 95% boring and had NOTHING on the classic they had on SD a few weeks prior, Hell No/Rhodes Scholars was very forgettable (their best match was Hell In A Cell 2012 and that was imo a **3/4 match; those two teams totally lacked chemistry) and Punk/Rock was DUD-worthy garbage. The RR match is the sole highlight of the PPV, and it was still a predictable underwhelm for what it was and what it should've been. NOC had the OK Main Event AND two decentish matches in the card (Ambrose/Ziggler and Shield/PTP). 1 ok, 2 decent = 3 not bad > 1 very good in a sea of trash.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

Watching AE August 1998 episode of RAW. This shit is awesome.

Austin vs Taker in main event title scene
Kane and Mankind tag team champions - and feuding with Austin/Taker
Triple H and Rock are ruling the midcard + DX/NOD

Good times man.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I don't remember RR 2013 all that well, but I didn't remember it being all that bad... then again, I don't Punk/Rock is complete shit like 99% of the people on this board, and I really only remember that and the Rumble match, but I thought it was a decent event at least.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, you better not remember all of it because it's not worth it. What we should be really discussing here though, fuck RR 2013, is that Hornswoggle/Torito match that I pimped up there. That's some FUN, FUN, FUN stuff, and if you don't like it or AT LEAST enjoy it, you don't have a heart. 

Though another question: I'm skeptical to rewatch Evolution/Shield II (from Payback), to the folks that did rewatch it, how did it hold up?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WEELC http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2x1gD21jGtgNw7pmXB my favourite match from the PPV and honestly might even be my MOTN. Depends on what I think to Evo/Shield on a re-watch.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Though another question: I'm skeptical to rewatch Evolution/Shield II (from Payback), to the folks that did rewatch it, how did it hold up?


I thought the same of as it the first time. Entirely too long for the finish they went for and predictable in the back half. Structure made no sense to me and the whole thing was just irritating, especially in the last 10 minutes or so. Probably like ** for a couple cool bumps.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> I've been struggling to find that UWA match Yeah upped for ages. I really need to look through his list of videos, because it may save me a helluva lot of aggro in future. I've heard people praise it to death, and I've seen it down as a 5-star match somewhere. Not sure it will be _that_ good, but go in expecting fun and you'll love it (okay, I see you've watched it already). Rambo isn't terrible, but he does have a problem in looking fluid. I get the sense that he does try hard, at times, but dammit if he doesn't degrade the segments he's in over the matches I've watched.
> 
> 
> More to the point... he had two aspuesta matches against LA Park in 2005 or 2007. I know one of them was under the Black Tiger gimmick, so it must have been his mask match. IIRC, it starts off pretty co-operative and doesn't go into Parka-styled HATE~! but it does have Parka jumping up and down and destroying a chair after he got wholloped with it. FUN.


I actually left that match enjoying Rambo. He seemed ugly in all the right places. Not to mention how 90's Lucha constantly gave me some of the best wrestling names/gimmicks ever. Rambo & he's wearing army fatigues & a sleeveless black shirt JUST B/C. Latin Lover b/c he used to be a stripper. LOVE MACHINE. Heavy Metal. And the best one of em all, Madonna's Boyfriend. Ah Louie, thank you.

Park vs Tiger is on youtube, so yeah, one of them was w/the Black Tiger gimmick. Ha.

co-signs SI's plug of Bourne vs Regal house show. Tremendous stuff.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

RVD vs Edge from Ven 2006 is great, MOTN followed by Carlito/Morrison/Benjamin and Angle/Orton. Rest of the show is not worth watching, better yet you'd die a little inside If you watch either Flair/Foley, Kane/Imposter Kane or Cena/Sabu, utter DUDs.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Better late than never:









Hayley Seydoux said:


> I actually left that match enjoying Rambo. He seemed ugly in all the right places. *Not to mention how 90's Lucha constantly gave me some of the best wrestling names/gimmicks ever*. Rambo & he's wearing army fatigues & a sleeveless black shirt JUST B/C. Latin Lover b/c he used to be a stripper. LOVE MACHINE. Heavy Metal. And the best one of em all, Madonna's Boyfriend. Ah Louie, thank you.



You and me both. It's like a walk into the funny farm.

I was hooked into watching a match with Satanico, Dandy, Emilio and early 90s Atlantis. HALF THE RUN TIME was of Kamala making a mesh of animalistic noises and stereotypic African drawl in the jungle as his "tribesmen" cooked a large pot a la Looney Tunes cannibalism stew. It was so unabashed in its racism. Speaking of Emilio, his stable Los Guapos was repackaged, for a short while, as Los Talibanes following the 9/11 attacks. CMLL evidently give no fucks about offending people. Makes me wonder if they really did give Rush Benoit's theme as a means of drawing legitimate hatred from fans.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cool, ill grab that later Rah, thanks.






Never get tired of that :lmao Although i wish the match was better. Just watching the Nitro after Great American Bash '96 (which is such an excellent PPV btw). Malenko/Rey rematch on now.

Then I'll go back for more Volk Han.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Shield/Evo Payback is bleh. Went down a lot for me on second watch. ER is where it's at for these guys. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Nitro episode I just watched had:

SID cutting his infamous HALF THE BRAIN THAT YOU DO promo.
Oklahoma being a piece of shit mocking JR's bells palsy.
Piñata on a poll match.
A one ring war games match with every member of the Filthy Animals just being handcuffed to the cage.
Creative Control revealing their names as Pat and Gerald, a piss take on Patterson and Brisco obviously.
Creative Control getting beat up by a black women.
Normal Smiley dressed like an American Football player in a hardcore match against Jimmy Hart dressed as a knight.
Numerous backstage shots of Goldberg having different drinks throughout the night.
Chavo Guerrero taking on his new role of a Salesman, trying to sell wrestlers shit throughout the night.
Hacksaw Jim Duggan as a janitor, who later steals some ex-lax brownies that were meant for Sting, causing him to shit in Russo's private toilet.
A contender for worst match ever between Evan Courageous and some jobber.
Barbarian against some... fighter dude in some MMA style fight backstage that ends with Barb getting knocked out from a kick to the chest.
Run-ins and interference in practically every match.
Street fight between Sid and Nash that ends in DQ. But only AFTER Goldberg interferes. Hall interferes first and the commentators make a point of saying ANYTHING GOES.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok. That sounds like the greatest sitcom in history. A Street Fight that ends in a DQ? The "You're half the man that I am and I have half the brain as you do" promo? Okla-fucking-homa?! That shit should be aired as a prime time comedy on NBC :lmao

God bless dat late years WCW. Thinking about it, TNA 2010-11 was not that bad in comparison.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

> Barbarian against some... fighter dude in some MMA style fight backstage that ends with Barb getting knocked out from a kick to the chest.
> Run-ins and interference in practically every match.


Jerry Flynn?

His whole gimmick by this point was fighting people backstage. Just because...

Nitro was so bad by this point. The Promoter episode where Nash mocked McMahon was so bad that they left in a massive blooper and the film crew recording it. Not even TNA was THAT bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Do you folks prefer Austin/Dude OTE or Shawn/Mankind Mind Games? I know both matches are pretty much perfection - one being one of the most perfectly booked matches ever, the other being 100% accurate in wrestling psychology and achieving greatly pure wrestling and brawling - but which do you like better?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Shawn/Mankind Mind Games_ for me. But i havn't seen OTE in ages so ill have to rewatch that soon, although i fucking adore Mind Games, don't even care about the finish.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Do you folks prefer Austin/Dude OTE or Shawn/Mankind Mind Games? I know both matches are pretty much perfection - one being one of the most perfectly booked matches ever, the other being 100% accurate in wrestling psychology and achieving greatly pure wrestling and brawling - but which do you like better?



MindGames. I have HBK/Mankind as my #6 best match in WWE History and Dude Love/Austin as #21. Obviously I love them both a huge amount.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm watching Zybysko vs a Regal Slamboree 1994, such a fucking fun match. I just noticed something though, is Superstar Bill Dundee Regal's manager Sir William?!?! How did I not know this? If it ain't him, he's a dead ringer for the Superstar....


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Holy crap, Finlay sold that spear like he died twice!


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

FINLAY!

Reigns looked like a star just now.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

too bad Dean or Orton 99 percent likely to interfere in Rollins/Cena because the properly spaced, well timed awesome counterfest the two had on SD was absolute money and that was SD. We got a great atmosphere tonight so it could tear the house down. Lets hope we A. actually get a match and B. it gets time before the fuckery. 

And as I type this Brose/Orton announced oh hell yeah two of the best sellers of impact who utilize psychology and a great contrast in an extremely fluid worker vs a purposely sloppy character. Heard good things about their SD bout but was out with friends on the 4th so didnt catch it. Second half of Raw should be good tonight


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> I know im late getting into Han, but fuck i love this shit. Im only through Disc 1 atm, but im already appreciating him greatly. Even in his debut match, he shown some great strikes and takedowns, the Zaza and Kopylov matches are my fav so far, although Maeda is great too.
> 
> Vrij one was a tough one for Han, he seemed a tough fucker who just wouldn't take any shit, but Han found a way.
> 
> Major :mark: so far.


:mark: awwwww man wait until you get to 96/97. 



ATF said:


> Do you folks prefer Austin/Dude OTE or Shawn/Mankind Mind Games? I know both matches are pretty much perfection - one being one of the most perfectly booked matches ever, the other being 100% accurate in wrestling psychology and achieving greatly pure wrestling and brawling - but which do you like better?


Mind Games by a long shot. Austin/Foley might be in my top 25 in WWE history. Michaels/Foley might be #1.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm watching Zybysko vs a Regal Slamboree 1994, such a fucking fun match. I just noticed something though, is Superstar Bill Dundee Regal's manager Sir William?!?! How did I not know this? If it ain't him, he's a dead ringer for the Superstar....


Yeah, it's Dundee. You seen the 5/28 Regal/Zbyszko? I think there's argument for it being Regal's career match (and Larry's too probably but I've seen way less singles match from him than I have Regal so I guess I wouldn't really know)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Ambrose/Orton match minus the hilarious botch :lenny

BattleArts. Anyone specialize in BattleArts?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ambrose/Orton was alright. Would go *** tops on it. Didn't really grab me in until that near-count out to Ambrose right at the end. MOTN though so far if that means anything.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Ambrose/Orton was alright. Would go *** tops on it. Didn't really grab me in until that near-count out to Ambrose right at the end. MOTN though so far if that means anything.


Agreed. Decent match.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Great match. Loved Usos/Wyatts a fair bit, as well.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

You know what's a bad match, as I reviewed in my Road to WM30 posts?

Jericho vs. RVD in Brooklyn almost a year ago.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> BattleArts. Anyone specialize in BattleArts?


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That Ambrose/Orton match minus the hilarious botch :lenny


Yep, it was great, which makes up for the fact that their Smackdown match was just alright.

Speaking of Smackdown, I thought Seth was great on commentary. That is exactly how a wrestler should be on commentary. Not overly annoying; answered everything quickly, and in a way that makes sense and advances his character; and was true to his character and the scenarios currently being presented the whole time.

I lol'ed at the "Kane doesn't wear watches" retort, when Cole asked Seth if he bought Kane a rolex for all of his help.

Thought the Del Rio/Sheamus match was great. If that had more length and was on a PPV, I think that people would be speaking very highly of it.

I'm only up to the aftermath of the Orton/Ambrose match on RAW so far, but are they just completely no-selling the fact that H said he would take Reigns out of the four-way if he interfered during the Smackdown main event?

I like that they had Reigns interfere anyway. It was weird how they just dropped the Reigns/Ambrose alliance previously. I think that that whole thing was perfectly booked on Smackdown, actually.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Technically Reigns didn't interfere, he only came out to Dean's aide once the match was over and Seth & Randy Orton were pulling the beatdown. My girlfriend didn't get that point either cause she freaked the fuck out. :lol

On a different note, someone uploaded the Best of Main Event DVD on XWT. :mark:


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

I thought this company was high on Cesaro? Lol.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I thought this company was high on Cesaro? Lol.


They were... then they got bored (as usual). 

I wouldn't be too bothered by it. If he gets to Sandow's level of losing pretty much every match for a year, well... then go crazy. But for now, I think it's just fuel to add to the eventual break-up with Heyman. Are they doing it the best way by having him lose all his matches? No, but at least he's not a champion or anything.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> I thought this company was high on Cesaro? Lol.


You know Vince has ADHD. He loves you and then 5 minutes later, he doesn't care about you at all anymore.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Fandango on commentary. :lmao 

I thought it'd be annoying, but it's actually entertaining.

They really need to keep Dolph away from this Summer Rae/Fandango shit. Good Lord.

Once again he gets a huge reaction tonight, and they make him a joke.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If somebody were to tell me that a Miz match would be better than one between John Cena and Seth Rollins, I would report you to the authorities. But lo and behold, bad Cena returns. Even Punk put in more effort before he left than Cena right now.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

That pull-up sit-out powerbomb was pretty cool but yeah, that match was lazy.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I still think they plan on pushing Cesaro. These losses are just their way of fueling the split from Heyman. 

Can't wait till Lesnar destroys Cena at SummerSlam. So sick of him.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Can someone come save me in the chatbox right now, theres an Edge vs Christian debate going on and im the only Christian supporter


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Edge's peaks were obviously far higher but every time something of Christian's started to gain steam an injury or especially booking would clip his wings so to speak. You could argue Christian as the better ring worker and certainly more of a ring general. Hell, Christian in 2014 at EC in that stacked chamber match held his own.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I just think Christian is better in the ring than Edge and better on the mic, just better all around


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If Christian debuted in February of 2009 and retired when he got injured in late 2010, I'd still consider his in-ring career better than Edge's.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Battlearts now. And it cannot be Ishikawa vs. Ikeda.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Am I the only one who thinks these Usos/Wyatts matches have been mediocre because of The Usos.


----------



## LFC_Styles (Dec 11, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Can someone come save me in the chatbox right now, theres an Edge vs Christian debate going on and im the only Christian supporter


Only one for a reason. At the end of the day, Edge was better.

Just seen:

Edge Vs Eddie Guerrero (Smackdown, 2002). The third and final battle between these two fan favourites. One of the best SmackDown matches in history in my opinion, great match. Its free here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPasZ90HRog

****3/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Christian's performance against Zack Ryder of all people beats most of Edge's showings. And I actually think Edge is great unlike most here. The kid isn't wrong for thinking Christian is better. He's wrong for thinking Muhammad Hassan is a terrorist.

BATTLEARTS


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Final spot in the Edge/Guerrero Street Fight makes me really butthurt. Edge walks up the ladder, facing out to the crowd, why exactly? Oh, because it's the spot they planned and didn't think about. ***1/2-3/4. Last few minutes just kills it for me.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

LFC_Styles said:


> Only one for a reason. At the end of the day, Edge was better.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think I gave this ****1/4 last watch, probably a top 5 match for edge

Though Eddie is so amazing this likely wouldn't make a top 20 for me in terms of Eddie matches 


Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Cesaro right now reminds me of Nigel McGuinness in 2007 in during the third quarter of 2007, in which he did almost nothing of note booking wise and wasn't put in position to steal shows, then still dethroned Morishima.

I suspect Cena is probably trying to preserve himself for the Lesnar match.


----------



## GREEK FREAK (May 17, 2012)

Just finished watching Eddie/Edge match. Really good match, the last 5 minutes were amazing.

Totally forgot bout this match. Haven't seen this since it aired. But yeah this would be one of my favorite Edge matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

William Murderface said:


> Am I the only one who thinks these Usos/Wyatts matches have been mediocre because of The Usos.


Possibly. The matches have been good because of the Wyatts, particularly Luke Harper who has been on a fucking tear recently, but The Usos have been fine. They're not making the matches but they're not dragging them down either, at least not to me. Thought the PPV match was really fucking good and the 6 man the next night with Sheamus and Bray was on a similar level. Didn't pay too much attention to last night's rematch but from what I saw it seemed like a good addition to the series.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> :mark: awwwww man wait until you get to 96/97.
> 
> 
> 
> You seen the *5/28 Regal/Zbyszko*? I think there's argument for it being Regal's career match (and Larry's too probably but I've seen way less singles match from him than I have Regal so I guess I wouldn't really know)


I uploaded that match a while ago too: 

x1qmyq8


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That Ambrose/Orton match minus the hilarious botch :lenny
> 
> BattleArts. Anyone specialize in BattleArts?


Ishikawa/Greco (6/9/08) is an absolute must. It's one of the best matches I've ever seen and for the best of the 2000s poll I had it as my #2. Amazing grappling and matwork, built on a great dynamic with Ishikawa relying on pro style holds and Greco having this shoot/amateur style hybrid. They time all the rope breaks and moments where one looks to have the advantage so well, and the closing few minutes are incredible. I won't spoil it, but there's a moment towards the end where they do something that is one of my all-time favourite moments within a match. Finish is also incredible.

Ishikawa, Munenori Sawa & Alexander Otsuka vs Daisuke Ikeda, Super Tiger II & Katsumi Usuda (7/26/08) is also exceptional and in contention for one of the best six man tags in existence.

Ishikawa vs Kazunari Murakami (11/26/00). To quote a wise old sage, this is stiffer than a cock in between Lucy Pinder's chebs.

Yuki Ishikawa vs Alexander Otsuka (1/20/98)

Yuki Ishikawa vs Alexander Otsuka (2/28/97)

Yuki Ishikawa & Alexander Otsuka vs Daisuke Ikeda & Takeshi Ono (10/30/96)

Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda (8/29/99)

Yuki Ishkiawa & Mohammed Yone vs Daisuke Ikeda & Ikuto Hidaka (6/20/99)

Yuki Ishikawa & Takeshi Ono vs Daisuke Ikeda & Katsumi Usuda (1/20/97)

Yuki Ishikawa vs Daisuke Ikeda (4/15/97)

Daisuke Ikeda vs Alexander Otsuka (4/26/99)

Daisuke Ikeda vs Alexander Otsuka (11/5/97)


^ That should cover you for now.

Ishikawa/Greco is on Dailymotion, as is the six man. The singles and remaining tags are all on youtube (Ishikawa/Ikeda 4/15/97 is the 32 minute match by Jetlag) and accessible with a simple search. Ishikawa/Murakami might be on youtube, but if not I can supply a link courtesy of a wonderful Australian.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Where to begin?

FINLAY. Spear from Reigns. HIGHLIGHT OF THE FUCKING YEAR.

Ambrose/Orton was great imo. Ambrose went from the most hyped up guy when Shield first got together, to taking a backseat to both Rollins and Reigns, to turning face and becoming quite possibly my favourite guy on the active roster right now.

Regal/Zbyszko matches are all (Y). Interesting to read Zbyszko's book and find out why he picked Regal to feud with and put over. Everyone was doing nothing but fucking clotheslines in matches back then and Zbyszko hated it, then Regal came along and did everything but clotheslines. Zbyszko loved that someone was being different and decided to give him a rub.

Christian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edge at everything. I cannot think of anything Edge was better at beyond somehow being booked as a main eventer for all those years. Guess Vince liked Edge's face more :side:. Christian's 09 run in ECW is better than Edge's entire career combined tbh.

Eddie/Edge ain't that great imo. Went way down on my last watch a few years back. Most of it was mindless spots for the sake of doing spots. Not a bad match by any means, around ***1/4 ish but no longer the epic ****+ match I once considered it to be. BTW, was that the match that Meltzer didn't give ***** to and Edge got upset and stopped talking to him? :lmao


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Oh and to co-sign, Christian >>>>>>> Edge. In terms of ringwork I really don't see how it's close. Christian definitely peaked and certainly showed more potential in his second WWE run (I hear the odd good thing about some of his matches in TNA but LOLTNA), but at his best he does absolutely everything I look for so much better than Edge. Has better matches with better workers but is also far more talented at getting more out of workers who otherwise would struggle to replicate the success with lesser opponents.

Promos/Charisma etc you can argue to your heart's content, though I'm not overly concerned. I'll say I found Christian more enjoyable on the mic, and I abhore Edge's cartoon facial expressions and PSYCHO persona. Charisma wise I'd probably give it to Edge in terms of making that connection to such a proportion of the audience. Can't argue with the results of his Rated R character between '04-'06 for example. I definitely think Christian had enough in him to become a bigger star with the right booking and faith from management, but from a match catalogue standpoint I consider him an overwhelming success and don't see where Edge comes close between the ropes.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Outside of his matches with Eddie (which are good, but only the SD No DQ is great), his matches with Matt Hardy (which are all pretty much great), his matches at WM and SS with Taker (mostly cause of the Deadman) and his match with Foley at WM 22, I can't say there is anything else I really like from Edge's singles career that I would go back and watch. On the other hand, I watch atleast 1 Christian match a week, and never ever get tired of him. I could just never really get into Edge. I don't hate him or anything, and I didn't mind when he was around and on top, but yea Christian has always been loads better in my book. Also, nothing made me cringe more than when Edge would do his psycho faces in the corner, it was just SO awkward and forced feeling.

I understand why Edge was pushed on top over Christian, he's a decent enough worker with a great look (atleast back in 05'-06' before he got chubby) and was able to generate pretty damn good heat because of the whole Lita thing. But when it comes to what happens in the ring, even back in 2005, I never though Edge was in Christians class as a wrestler.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

#ROOT said:


> Christian >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Edge at everything.


Simply, this.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Christian is better than Edge in the ring without a questionable shadow of a doubt. His performances vs Jack Swagger in 2009 ALONE were better than every in-ring performance of Edge ever. But when it comes to everything else (mic, charisma, look, etc.), that's a different story. Maybe Christian wins in the mic since he can cut very good promos both as a face and heel whereas Edge could cut GREAT ones as a heel but lame as hell ones in the face role, but Edge beats him at everything else I'd say.

And regarding Raw, it was obviously not as good as last week's, but still good. Orton/Ambrose was pretty damn awesome, ***1/2 to that, Orton's best performance since the February match with Bryan and Ambrose keeps being the non-Bryan best in the world. Ambrose/Rollins is going to be so great. Usos/Wyatts was very good too, basically a mix of their June 2nd and MITB matches, though it is growing old seeing these 2 teams wrestle. Jericho/Miz was decent, the Jericho/Wyatt mic war was awesome, Cena/Rollins was the Rollins show, Ziggler/ADR was a hell of a sprint and Cesaro/Kofi not as good but still a fun sprint at that, hell I even thought RVD/Rusev was sort of serviceable. Battleground is being the most solidly built-up PPV in months it seems.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:mark: FINLAY just returned on Nitro :mark:. Attacked Normal Smiley who was just crowned the Hardcore Champion lol. Finlay takes off the football helmet from Norman, then puts it on himself and HEADBUTTS Norman :lmao.

TWO SETS OF FINLAY AWESOMENESS FOR ME TODAY. Best. Day. Ever.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I have to admit, I got a bit excited seeing Finlay come out in that dapper suit to try and restrain Reigns, he took one hell of a bump off that spear too, I wish we could get a short 7 minute match on Main Event between Finlay and Roman out of it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, just like y'all, I marked out a little when I saw Finlay's bump off that Spear. But Finlay/Reigns? Bah. If Finlay's gonna drop one more match, make it a 10/15 minute match vs Rollins, or vs Cesaro... or vs Barrett (when he returns)... or vs Bryan (when he returns)... or vs Sheamus... or vs Wyatt... or vs Ambrose... or vs Harper... or vs Zayn. See, there are many possibilites that are better than Roman, even if they're not as realistic.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WC, more RUSSO HATES WOMEN stuff on this episode too :lmao. Mayhem the night before, MENG beat Luger, and I'm guessing Liz accidentally helped. So Lex goes to Russo and asks for a match between MENG and Liz tonight :lmao. Says he has Liz tied up with a 3 year contract and she can't do anything without his say so otherwise she'll be broke and starving within 3 months . Russo agrees. So Liz runs away and locks herself in a shark cage... which they seem to have lying around backstage. Lex shows up and says he's sorry, so Liz hands over the key because SHE A WOMEN AND SHE STOOPID and Lex keeps her locked in and tells her she's still gotta wrestle MENG :lmao. Then STING, who is a FACE, shows up and Liz asks for help and he basically tells her to fuck off.

GREAT BOOKING OF WOMEN IN WRESTLING!!!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is there a page on somewhere like cagematch where i can see the undertaker vs kurt angle match history?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Try this: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=761&page=4&search=kurt+angle

Hey Cal, mini Q&A here: when do you expect plugging your next video on your blog, and how many months there will be before your next ramble?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cal's choice to watch WCW at its worst over WWE in 2005 says everything you need to know about the year.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Is there a page on somewhere like cagematch where i can see the undertaker vs kurt angle match history?


http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/the-undertaker-124.html?opp=299



ATF said:


> Hey Cal, mini Q&A here: when do you expect plugging your next video on your blog, and how many months there will be before your next ramble?


Working on scripts AS WE SPEAK for new videos on my blog. That's what all these NITRO watches are about. Onto script #5. Planning on doing 10, then recording and editing them in bulk so I can just concentrate on posting them once a week and do other shit in the mean time. RAMBLE will likely be next week, wanting to finish these scripts this week. And once I've finished these scripts and recorded them all, I'll begin doing those Eny of Year Thoughts videos for 00, 01 and 02. PLUS I have some written content ready for my non wrestling blog too!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Try this: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=761&page=4&search=kurt+angle





#ROOT said:


> http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/the-undertaker-124.html?opp=299


Fanks.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

#ROOT said:


> http://www.profightdb.com/wrestler_search/the-undertaker-124.html?opp=299


Looks like Taker has another streak to defend next year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Fuck, I'll be out of home next week, hopefully there'll be some kind of internet connection where I'll go, otherwise I'll miss an entire week's worth of awesomeness in this board 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Cal's choice to watch WCW at its worst over WWE in 2005 says everything you need to know about the year.


Yeah, as well as the fact that it's one of the greatest years ever PERIOD.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

#ROOT said:


> WC, more RUSSO HATES WOMEN stuff on this episode too :lmao. Mayhem the night before, MENG beat Luger, and I'm guessing Liz accidentally helped. So Lex goes to Russo and asks for a match between MENG and Liz tonight :lmao. Says he has Liz tied up with a 3 year contract and she can't do anything without his say so otherwise she'll be broke and starving within 3 months . Russo agrees. So Liz runs away and locks herself in a shark cage... which they seem to have lying around backstage. Lex shows up and says he's sorry, so Liz hands over the key because SHE A WOMEN AND SHE STOOPID and Lex keeps her locked in and tells her she's still gotta wrestle MENG :lmao. Then STING, who is a FACE, shows up and Liz asks for help and he basically tells her to fuck off.
> 
> GREAT BOOKING OF WOMEN IN WRESTLING!!!


I tell you that man has woman issues. Reading that WCW review thread was cringeworthy when you could read the detail in how women were referred to. "A woman just broke up *whatever team it was*". If they weren't leaving their wrestler for other women, it was sporting tits and ass for everyone to see, being attacked by Jarrett or implied as gold-diggers with no morals. I'm pretty sure the Goldberg/Steiner FallBrawl build is literally the two of them attacking the other's woman to make it personal. Yes, Goldberg the face mandandles and assaults a woman. Just asinine. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> Cal's choice to watch WCW at its worst over WWE in 2005 says everything you need to know about the year.


Less talking, more BattlARTS watching.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Anyone got predictions for who is gonna be the next Intercontinental Champion?

I choose Kofi because it's the WWE and they have to piss me off again with this jackass at some point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

If it ain't Cesaro I'll bitch about it on the internet.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

If it ain't Ziggler, I'll cry. And I have a hard time believing that Mohammed Yone took part in something productive.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wow, going through profightdb I just found this little gem, never even seen it before:

The Undertaker vs Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle on Smackdown in 2002

www.dailymotion.com/video/x4y2n9_undertaker-vs-chris-benoit-vs-kurt_sport


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

You would think it would be Cesaro, but you never know with those company though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Wow, going through profightdb I just found this little gem, never even seen it before:
> 
> The Undertaker vs Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle on Smackdown in 2002
> 
> www.dailymotion.com/video/x4y2n9_undertaker-vs-chris-benoit-vs-kurt_sport


That's when Undertaker first moves to SD during the brand split, and wins the #1 contendership to face LESNAR at Unforgiven .


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

Ah the days when SmackDown mattered, now every main event from SmackDown just get's repeated on RAW


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD is like a house show for WWE now. They put a main event on, and if it works, they do it on Raw so people will actually see it .

MENG just pinned Sting :mark:.


----------



## William Murderface (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm just starting to realize that haha.

Although that Reings/Rusev match does intrigue me to a great degree, but I wonder if I watch it if it will happen on RAW again


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Wow, going through profightdb I just found this little gem, never even seen it before:
> 
> The Undertaker vs Chris Benoit vs Kurt Angle on Smackdown in 2002
> 
> www.dailymotion.com/video/x4y2n9_undertaker-vs-chris-benoit-vs-kurt_sport


Watched that, fun but nothing amazing.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

William Murderface said:


> I'm just starting to realize that haha.
> 
> Although that Reings/Rusev match does intrigue me to a great degree, but I wonder if I watch it if it will happen on RAW again


There'll be some shady finish forcing them to have a rematch on Raw .

SID AND GOLDBERG TEAMING UP DESPITE BEING AT WAR FOR THE LAST 2 MONTHS :mark:.

I remember seeing this match on WCW WORLDWIDE on channel 5 back in the day :mark:. MEMORIES.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Tbh I'm also intrigued by the Reigns/Rusev match on Smackdown. Given how Roman seems to have good chemistry with big guys, and how Rusev is pretty good in the ring for my money, and also for the fact that both men CANNOT afford losses or looking weak atm, I'll watch it. And I'll even avoid spoilers for once, just to see what will be the WWE's booking. 

Meanwhile, little discussion - Royal Rumble: 2005, 2007 or 2009? Imo, I prefer 07. The other two didn't have a bad match at all while 07 had Lashley/Test, sure. However, Hardys/MNM is awesome, Cena/Umaga is a classic and the Rumble is one of the greatest ones too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2009 all the way, then 2005. 07 has the rumble and a good hardy/MNM match but everything else is kinda medicore.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Rusev/Reigns should be interesting at least. Reigns sucks, but I do think Rusev can carry him to a good match, plus they seem to have some chemistry if we're going off the battle royal. Not only that, but I don't know who would win... I mean, chances are they'll go with a screwy finish, but it's nice that the match isn't totally predictable as usual with these two guy's matches where you know "Rusev will win" or "Reigns will win".


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> If it ain't Cesaro I'll bitch about it on the internet.


hoW can u like cesaro and dislike barrett??


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Femto said:


> hoW can u like cesaro and dislike barrett??


Because one is good and the other sucks?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bull Nakano vs. Shinobu Kandori (Chain Match) (LLPW 7/14/94)

This was violent as fuck and i fucking loved it. Nakano really made a mess with her blood. The uses of the chain were done particularly well and the blows looked really vicious., esp when they wrapped their fists with the chain. Great dramatic and violent blood fight. Loved it when Nakano did a 'nunchuck' motion with the chain too. A fucking WAR, and of the best of this type in existence.

Highly recommended.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Femto said:


> hoW can u like cesaro and dislike barrett??


Because this is the rasslin' part of the board.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can anyone please like BOTH Cesaro and Barrett so that shit ends?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Femto said:


> hoW can u like cesaro and dislike barrett??



Because Cesaro is a GREAT wrestler and Barrett is merely average, maybe pretty good on his best day. I don't hate Barrett and some of his Bad News schtick cracks me up, but man, when you have been in the company 4 years and still haven't had 1 single match that's great, you aren't gonna be someone I look forward to seeing. Cesaro is just a complete master In the ring. His match vs Zayn at Arrival is my current MotY for 2014, his match vs Cena on Raw is my current TV MotY for 2014, his tag against Sheamus and Christian is the best 2 on 2 tag of 2014, his 2/3 Falls match against Zayn on NXT was #3 for MotY 2013, and his match against Bryan on Raw was my TV MotY for 2013. All of those matches are better than anything Barrett has done in his entire 4 year career, and Cesaro delivered all of those in less than 12 months. So yea, no comparison between the two. When I tune in to watch WRESTLING, what happens from bell to bell is the #1 most important thing for me, character, promos, and all that other jazz is secondary.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Huh, Barrett HAS had a great match already, and that was in 2011 against Daniel Bryan at SummerSlam. Granted, it was against Bryan, but Barrett did great bulk of the work too. As a matter of fact, he had four great matches already - vs Sheamus on Main Event last year and on Raw in April this year, and vs Ziggler for the IC Title. Sure, only four GREAT matches in a 4 year stint is kinda low, but it's not like he never had any more good matches than that because he sure has. As a matter of fact, he has been at the top of his game in the ring this year, and has had good singles matches with Big E and current day RVD, something only a select few can say - and Cesaro's not one of them. Cesaro is better than him in the ring easily, sure, but Barrett is not exactly a slouch either. And of course, when it comes to mic work, Barrett destroys him in the same way Cesaro destroys Barrett when it comes to ring work, only with a bigger advantage.

Can we just say that both are awesome? Because I sure can.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Because Cesaro is a GREAT wrestler and Barrett is merely average, maybe pretty good on his best day. I don't hate Barrett and some of his Bad News schtick cracks me up, but man, when you have been in the company 4 years and *still haven't had 1 single match that's great, you aren't gonna be someone I look forward to seeing.* Cesaro is just a complete master In the ring. His match vs Zayn at Arrival is my current MotY for 2014, his match vs Cena on Raw is my current TV MotY for 2014, his tag against Sheamus and Christian is the best 2 on 2 tag of 2014, his 2/3 Falls match against Zayn on NXT was #3 for MotY 2013, and his match against Bryan on Raw was my TV MotY for 2013. All of those matches are better than anything Barrett has done in his entire 4 year career, and Cesaro delivered all of those in less than 12 months. So yea, no comparison between the two. When I tune in to watch WRESTLING, what happens from bell to bell is the #1 most important thing for me, character, promos, and all that other jazz is secondary.


I disagree with this. He's had a few great singles matches in the last few months alone. Hell, he's had more great matches than Cesaro has in the last few months, even against the same opponents (Sheamus, RVD, Big E, and Ziggler)... not that all of those were "great", but Barrett's been on a roll while Cesaro's been in a slump. Combine that with Barrett being far better on the mic and actually having a character, Barrett has Cesaro beat right now and it's not even close. As far as whole body of work goes over the years, it's definitely a lot closer as Cesaro is much more impressive in the ring, and he is flat out better than Barrett as a wrestler, but that's where it ends for me. If wrestling skill is the primary concern for you, it's understandable why you'd like Cesaro more than Barrett, but I prefer a mix of everything (with a preference towards mic work as that's what will normally make a feud great) and Barrett is more that than Cesaro is.



> Can anyone please like BOTH Cesaro and Barrett so that shit ends?


I do.  Actually, Cesaro is my favorite guy in several years based almost entirely on his in-ring work... actually, I also really like his old-school look as well. (That's something else he has over Barrett, actually)

Edit: GREAT Barrett matches:

(****)
vs. Sheamus Main Event 5/29/13
vs. Sheamus Raw 4/21/2014
(***3/4)
vs. Cena HIAC 2010
vs. Bryan SS 2011
vs. Ziggler Raw 6/23/2014
vs. Bryan SD 8/23/2013
(***1/2)
vs. Bryan SD 8/16/2013
vs. Ziggler Raw 4/14/2014

Not to compare to Cesaro's of course, but the man has had plenty of great matches, especially recently with Sheamus and Ziggler. I also give him a large amount of credit for making the WHC EC in 2012 as great as it was as he was the MVP, and he has plenty of other multi-man matches up there if those count. Also plenty of above average/good matches over the years as well. Not weekly, and he does have a good amount of shit as well, but he's more than capable of having great matches.


----------



## LFC_Styles (Dec 11, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> I think I gave this ****1/4 last watch, probably a top 5 match for Edge
> 
> Though Eddie is so amazing this likely wouldn't make a top 20 for me in terms of Eddie matches
> 
> ...


Definitely top 5 with Taker/Edge, Hardy/Edge at ER and a couple others.



Brauny said:


> Just finished watching Eddie/Edge match. Really good match, the last 5 minutes were amazing.
> 
> Totally forgot bout this match. Haven't seen this since it aired. But yeah this would be one of my favorite Edge matches.


Great match for sure. Edgecution at the end is brutal.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

ATF said:


> Can anyone please like BOTH Cesaro and Barrett so that shit ends?


No. I've developed a theory that people who like Barrett are most likely on heavy shit (drugs). No other explanation. 

IMO.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Heavenly Bodies vs. Thrillseekers (SMW 8/5/94)

A really good tag match, mostly remembered for Jericho wrestling with a broken arm and for a fucking EPIC blade job.........which he did with the broken arm lol.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Top 5 Edge singles matches 

1: vs Hardy UF 2005(****3/4)
2: vs Foley WM 22(****1/2)
3: vs Taker WM(****1/2) 
4: vs Eddie No DQ(****1/4)
5: vs Flair TLC(****1/4)

Tbh im probably one of the biggest Flair/Edge fans ITT, love it so much

Top 5 Eddie matches 

1: vs JBL JD 2004(*****)
2: vs Rey HH 97(****3/4)
3: vs Rey SD(****3/4) 
4: vs Lesnar(****3/4)
5: vs Wild Pegusus/Benoit NJPW best of the super juniors 1996(****3/4) 

that top 5 bama4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Chismo said:


> No. I've developed a theory that people who like Barrett are most likely on heavy shit (drugs). No other explanation.
> 
> IMO.


I would never even dream of touching drugs, and I find myself adoring Barrett.

Problem? :barrett

I can see why someone would think Barrett is not that good in the ring, but it's not like he never had any good performances or any great matches or something. Those are the people, those that say THAT, that are totally blind and on drugs imho.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

Actually, Barrett can be good in the ring with right opponents, no question about it, it's just that he's totally bland and uninteresting to me, there's a reason why I haven't seen anything of his from 2011 until the recent Sheamus match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well to an extent I can agree with that statement. He is indeed very basic in the ring, never really expands much from that blandish and boring area. However, I can see through that because I'm just a biased fan maybe, and enjoy his offensive regardless. Which makes it even better when he's at the top of his game. Which is when he's just clubbing the fuck out of his opponent non-stop, like he would in a match against Dolph Ziggler or Sheamus. And really, there has yet to be a match in 2014 of his that I didn't enjoy. On paper, that Big E/Barrett match from Extreme Rules both had me cringing and hoping at the same time - since Barrett had just gotten a good singles match out of 2014 RVD, something not even CESARO was able to do, I was hoping that he would also do that with Big E, however Big E being Big E, I never really raised my hopes. Then the match happened and Barrett pretty much carried the whole thing and made it totally decent. Made me mark out a little. And then he did it again the next night on Raw. I just YES'ed at the sight of Wade proving me that he can have a not bad match out of someone who's inferior in the ring than he is, which was a serious worry I had, being such a big Barrett fan.

But anyway, let's move on to another discussion. Kofi Kingston - any good matches of his that are not against Cesaro?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hart/Diesel (SVS 95) or Hart/Taker (SS 97)?

Honestly think Diesel match is better as against Taker, the leg work kinda goes nowhere in the end even though it's a GREAT dissection by The Bret Man. I mean it's really good work.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Hart/Diesel (SVS 95) or Hart/Taker (SS 97)?


Survivor Series for me. Adore that match, even for Nash lol. Think i prefer Bret/Taker from ONO to Summerslam too TBH.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I have to admit that Barrett has been growing on me in the past few months. He's had his moments under the Bad News gimmick, his ring work has improved a bit and I find him more entertaining recently than I have in years. Plus I've enjoyed his World Cup breakdowns over on WWE's youtube account.

Not really following Raw as said previously but last night I realized that it was Monday so I turned on my usual stream around the 9PM time and saw Ambrose in the ring with Orton so I stuck around for the match. Pleased with the match and it was a good performance from both guys. Clean win for Orton surprised me but that may just be my paranoia when it comes to WWE's booking of Orton. I just haven't been able to put my full trust into them since 2011 so I always expect them to pull some bullshit and job him out continuously. Also went out of my way to see their SD match from last week and it was only decent at best.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> Because one is good and the other sucks?


then why you like the 1 who sux


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Femto said:


> then why you like the 1 who sux


I don't. I like Cesaro. Keep up 8*D.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

#ROOT said:


> I don't. I like Cesaro. Keep up 8*D.


oh my bad I thought you like cesaro and dislike barrett


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NEITHER CESARO OR BARRETT SUCK. *THE END.*


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I disagree with this. He's had a few great singles matches in the last few months alone. Hell, he's had more great matches than Cesaro has in the last few months, even against the same opponents (Sheamus, RVD, Big E, and Ziggler)... not that all of those were "great", but Barrett's been on a roll while Cesaro's been in a slump. Combine that with Barrett being far better on the mic and actually having a character, Barrett has Cesaro beat right now and it's not even close. As far as whole body of work goes over the years, it's definitely a lot closer as Cesaro is much more impressive in the ring, and he is flat out better than Barrett as a wrestler, but that's where it ends for me. If wrestling skill is the primary concern for you, it's understandable why you'd like Cesaro more than Barrett, but I prefer a mix of everything (with a preference towards mic work as that's what will normally make a feud great) and Barrett is more that than Cesaro is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess I should have clarified, I use the word "great" to describe any match I have at **** or higher, and while I think those two matches he had with Sheamus and the 1 he had with Bryan at SS were really good, I couldn't in good conscience consider them a lasting work of art, or great. I think you lower the bar for "greatness" a good deal if you think the match Barrett had with Sheamus on Raw this year was great. 

I happen to disagree about "mic work normally is what makes a feud great". That's just not true where I'm looking. A feud is only great if there are great matches. You can cut awesome promos then have 2 drizzling shit matches and no one would ever call it a great feud (like the Punk/Rock series from last year). Then, you can have middling or downright mediocre promos with GREAT matches and people will still consider it a great feud. You have to deliver in the ring to have a great feud, bottom line. Now, for it to be a truly classic feud, yes you definitely need both (like the Hart vs Austin feud in 1997).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hogan and Piper had a great feud with no good matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hogan and Piper had a great feud with no good matches.


I've started to watch Nitro and I'm looking forward to Piper showing up lol.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Super Sonic said:


> I suspect Cena is probably trying to preserve himself for the Lesnar match.


Hope so because outside of that SD handicapped match, the man has been putting on ABYSMAL performances recently. Timing and spacing doesn't require physicality. Guy has looked frankly lazy in the squared circle as of late and if he keeps with these facial expressions, WWE might need to put him in a lucha mask. Props to that sheer sitout powerbomb though


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cena has been going through the motions as usual recently IMO, like 'Ill just do the normal shit and that'll be ok'.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. That match with Rollins on Raw, though enjoyable, was simply because of Rollins. Cena did a cool looking powerbomb and then just did his shit like he stopped caring. Outside of the Cesaro and WM Wyatt matches, Cena has been kinda sucking this year. 2013 Cena would laugh over him.

And speaking of laughable, BRAZIL IS GETTING SQUASHED. This is more shocking than the Streak ending. I'm still bitter regarding the 4-0 squash the Germans gave to Portugal (), but this is just another level of Holy fucking Shit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Hogan and Piper had a great feud with no good matches.


I care not for the Hogan/Piper feud. It does nothing for me. Give me Hot Rod vs Valentine or Hogan vs Savage or Hogan vs Warrior over it any day of the week.

Want the best example that kinda sorta proves what I'm saying? Hogan vs Sting should have been one of the top 5 best feuds for how that thing was built. I mean, as far as builds go, I'm not sure you can do a whole heck of a lot better than what Sting and Hogan did in WCW. So why is that feud seen as a colossal disappointment? Cause the match they had at Starrcade fucking sucked. Hard. Any chances they had at immortality went out the window as soon as they laid that egg at the years biggest show.

I'm not saying I'm 100% right btw, just stating my viewpoint. When I want to watch wrestling, I never go back and just watch a build. I need the payoff. And if the payoff sucks, I'm not gonna bother rewatching the build. Nothing is better though than spending like 45 minutes watching all the awesome lead up stuff to a match then getting to watch the all time great match that follows. That's why I will always love wrestling more than MMA, you don't get that awesome drama.



Here are two matches I just watched and loved:

Benoit vs Finlay Smackdown 11/24/06 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x25wch_smackdown-24-11-2006-chris-benoit-v_sport

Steven Regal vs Larry Zybysko WCW Saturday Night 5/28/94 (This instantly became one of my favorite matches, just an unbelievable performance from Regal. Needs to be seen by everyone)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1...larry-zbyszko-saturday-night-05-28-1994_sport


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> And speaking of laughable, BRAZIL IS GETTING SQUASHED. This is more shocking than the Streak ending. I'm still bitter regarding the 4-0 squash the Germans gave to Portugal (), but this is just another level of Holy fucking Shit.


I was planning on watching two matches Woolcock pimped tonight but that game suckered me in and I loathe Football. 

The sport just had its Gowen/Lesnar moment. Unfuckingreal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Reigns spearing Finlay did me in.

that's about all I got from RAW. wait, Bo Dallas owning a midget. That was great.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Since there's a lot of Christian fans in here may as well mention he's going to be on Talk Is Jericho on Wednesday.

Should be a good listen.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Wyatt Family vs. The Usos on Raw was awesome last night. I saw it in person and watched it back on TV earlier today. So fucking awesome.

Orton/Ambrose was also great and Orton was so damn good playing to us all night. He definitely made sure we didn't pick up a "you fucked up" chant on that botched spot and recovered just fine.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Top 5 for Eddie looks something like vs. Rey @ HH, Benoit @ BOSJ Semi, Malenko 2/3 falls, Brock @NWO, and JBL @ JD in that order.

...Unless you include he tag w/Barr at WWC, then it's after Rey, and everyone else slides down. Couple ***** matches there, and everything else is only slightly less. It's a shame that he has a dozen great matches that are only 7-10 minutes long, and so fall short of the traditional ***** requirements. I think vs. Rey is almost exactly 14min bell-to-bell. 13:58-9, but IDGAF:kanye2 show me a better sub-15 minute match, ever.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Can anyone tell me why the thread thinks their are 4 more pages than their is 

I can deal with one, but 4 is pretty annoying


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Can anyone tell me why the thread thinks their are 4 more pages than their is
> 
> I can deal with one, but 4 is pretty annoying


My guess is that someone got banned, and all of their posts got deleted along with that.

Don't know why some people's posts get deleted when they get banned and others' don't, but I think that's the answer.

Is there a way to get rid of the excess pages? I thought ya'll were particularly chatty or something, when I saw all of the new pages, lol.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

What the hell. They apparently ran Sheamus vs. Del Rio in a LAST MAN STANDING MATCH on Main Event tonight for the U.S. Title. It got 20 minutes. I'm intrigued.

Reigns vs. Rusev on Smackdown sounds awesome as fuck but you know there's gonna be interference, so why get that excited?

EDIT: First 13 episodes of Saturday Night's Main Event are on the Network!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good. While their recent match on Smackdown was good, it's a match I'm a bit tired of. Tossing a random gimmick in it is actually fine by me.

even if the only reason it happened is b/c the WWE NETWORK IS FREE FOR ONE FULL WEEK.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> What the hell. They apparently ran Sheamus vs. Del Rio in a LAST MAN STANDING MATCH on Main Event tonight for the U.S. Title. It got 20 minutes. I'm intrigued.


After seeing that match run to death on house shows, I'm not sure if it's going to be worth anyone's time.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Or the fact WWE + Last Man Standing, can = lolwtf, there's something to be worried about too. But screw it. I'll be watching tomorrow. I'll give you the answers.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Can anyone tell me why the thread thinks their are 4 more pages than their is
> 
> I can deal with one, but 4 is pretty annoying


Just noticed it wtf :lmao




Also I wouldn't worry about an interference laden Rusev vs Reigns on SD. We're likely getting that on Raw anyway :HHH2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why the hell am I seeing four pages next to this one? What the fuck happened?

Anyway, I'm pretty confident Reigns/Rusev is going to be an interference fest, but if someone is SURE of that via spoilers, please don't spoil it here, since some people are interested to see how it goes :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You spoil, you die metaphorically.

K. We'll all be good now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Exactly. Like Dead Silence, only you die if you spoil instead of if you scream. 8*D

However, I did check out "minor" spoilers from SD regarding Battleground's card, and if Ambrose/Rollins is still getting added to the card after all of that, Battleground is shaping up to be PPV of the Year. With only two matches I don't care about - the Fatal 4-Way, which still COULD be good, and


Spoiler: SD



Naomi/Cameron, which sounds Godawful


.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

PPV of the year after what WM was and all of the nonsense on this event being large filler. C'mon, man.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

ON PAPER. I don't give a fuck if everything in this card is big time filler (which should be regarded to big portion of everything in the PPV's inbetween WrestleMania, SummerSlam and Royal Rumble - even Survivor Series gets shit treatment nowadays) - to me, most of the matches, as filler as they are, sound good and I'm looking forward to it. That being said, maybe PPV of the Year is overreacting because of, you know, Mania 30 being one of the Goddamn greatest WM's ever, but still, I have hopes that somehow, this show does a solid job of raising the bar after the previous few PPV's being really not that enjoyable overall (outside of Takeover which was good).


----------



## Bubz (Jul 19, 2007)

What's the Battleground card? Can someone post it in spoilers, because I can't be fucked venturing in to any other threads to find out .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

We actually get a PPV card made up of multiple matches with extensive feuds behind them and people still complain. Gah, I'm sure folks on the internet would have complained about Ric Flair in the 80s.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bubz said:


> What's the Battleground card? Can someone post it in spoilers, because I can't be fucked venturing in to any other threads to find out .


Cena/Orton/Kane/Reigns for the WWEWHC Title
IC Title Battle Royal
Swagger/Rusev
Ambrose/Rollins (unconfirmed but I'm sure it's going in)


Spoiler: Rest of the confirmed card



Jericho/Wyatt
AJ/Paige for the Divas Title
Usos/Wyatts 2 out of 3 falls for the Tag Titles
Naomi/Cameron


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Only match I don't care about is the main event. Orton is cold as a headliner, Cena is just transition, Kane in the main event again LOL. Hopefully for the sake of business logic this is the only time (MAYBE get away with one more along the way) Reigns gets screwed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

You should just be putting all expectations into Ryogoku Peter Pan atm.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

If Ambrose/Rollins gets added to Battleground, then we may just get a one-match show (this pay-off is happening at Summerslam, if anything). As of right now, nothing will deliver.




funnyfaces1 said:


> We actually get a PPV card made up of multiple matches with extensive feuds behind them


We do?


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Would prefer them to run Ambrose/Rollins at Summerslam rather than Battleground (if it does get added). Suppose it's possible they could work more of an angle than a match to build to Summerslam, but alongside Swagger/Rusev and even AJ/Paige I think that would improve the Summerslam card and make it feel like a stronger show befitting the reputation of what Summerslam is supposed to be. If they run rematches of Swagger/Rusev or AJ/Paige rather than running them at Summerslam I worry the heat will be lost (since WWE don't really seem to strive for a motivation to have a rematch beyond merely 'unresolved issues).

Also Rah did you watch those Bourne matches?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They should kinda do Ambrose/Rollins at BG like HHH/Foley at CS, where they just keep fighting each other all through the night even after the match. Except keep the match short and end in DQ/Double countout or something because of them fighting so much.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

That's honestly not a bad idea Cal. I was thinking Hardy/Edge Summerslam (minus the blood), but I'm not sure how well they could parody that. The blood certainly added an element of danger/peril to Hardy's situation, which can't really be replicated with just a simple beatdown. A hectic sub ten minute war that sees a heated post match angle to build to Summerslam would be ideal, but the idea of a couple of backstage segments of them fighting could work. WWE have stuck some filler backstage segments on recent PPVs to kill time, might as well use them for something purposeful.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Sheamus vs. Alberto Del Rio - Last Man Standing match for the US Title - Main Event 7/8/2014*
_***WARNING: SPOILER ALERT FOR WHAT HAPPENS IN THE MATCH***
_Pretty sure this is the first time these two ever had a gimmick match together. And as much as I enjoy them working, I'm kinda sick of them working together. Still, I took interest in it. Obviously, for the stipulation alone, I had to do comparisons to the much controversial Cena/Wyatt one. Cena/Wyatt was totally a mindless spotfest in short words, albeit a very entertaining one but still it was what it was. This one was much less "do a spot, lay down, count, do a spot, lay down, count" like that one, and focused more on straight up wrestling and simple brawling. Smartly, they did a natural evolution of brutality all throughout the 20 minutes - they fought outside and with only kendo sticks at the beggining, then they swifted to chairs (there was even a headshot, Alberto is bound to be fined I think), and they only used the table at the end. And the fighting itself was cool. When the traditional wrestling was incorporated inbetween the weapon fighting, it actually made sense since it was only for comebacks mostly. And the match had a very good pace, one that didn't feel like a 1000 mph spotfest but at the same time not like a 1 mph slugfest, which is good for a match of this kind. However, there was quite a couple of flaws with the match. They virtually RAPED the 10 count system (even though on one hand it is smart, since you are trying to finish off your opponent as fast as you can, it is EXTREMELY predictable at the beggining and just gets downright annoying by the end); (speaking of annoying) the crowd was chanting "we want tables" ALL FUCKING MATCH LONG - not Sheamus or ADR's faults but the crowd is an important factor in a match for me and this crowd kinda sucked; and the selling was, at points, downright *horrendous*. The biggest example of the latter was when Sheamus grabbed ADR up when he had the Cross Armbreaker locked in and put him through the table, which was the only "big spot" in the match. Both men were laying down for the 10 count. Sheamus, in natural fashion, got up as he went along, but Del Rio layed down in the broken table for 8 seconds, immobile, and then got up like nothing happened in the next second. UGH. There were ones not as bad but similar all match long. All in all, this was an acceptable, fun fight with a pretty good pace, and those who LOATHED Cena/Wyatt for the spotfest nature will probably enjoy this one more, however, much like a lot of their stuff, it's far from what I'd expect of two wrestlers the caliber of Sheamus and ADR imho.
***1/2-**3/4*


----------



## Matt_Yoda (Jun 19, 2011)

I was wondering is there a WCW and ECW match/show discussion thread or are we allowed to discuss matches from these promotions under this thread? thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Given WWE owns the footage I've always taken the view that it's permittable to discuss both in here. In fairness it's a very lax thread and the only rules enforced are usually with regard to baiting, flaming and posting copyrighted material. I've typically wrote about matches featuring WWE alumni from various terriories and companies, e.g Lawler's Memphis work, Regal/Eddie in Japan etc.

So yeah, puro/lucha/indy talk typically goes in the respective threads in the Other Wrestling Section, though a general about Indy alumni does take place in here, e.g Danielson, Claudio, Bourne, Hero, Ambrose, Rollins, Punk etc. Specific current matches are usually kept to the Other Wrestling section, but past matches featuring current WWE talent have always been fine to discuss in this thread.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Agreed with funnyfaces to an extent. Good or bad, we are getting some feuds behind the matches, which is better than simply adding filler matches.

Ambrose vs Rollins, Reigns vs Authority, Usos vs Wyatts, Swagger vs Rusev, Jericho vs Miz/Wyatts, Cesaro vs Kofi/Langston, AJ vs Paige, Naomi vs Cameron and even Summer vs Layla are all active feuds atm.

What will be interesting is seeing which ones WWE saves for Summerslam and which ones are given away on BG.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think we've probably discussed every other promotion in the world throughout this thread at some point in time. 

Still excited to see Sheamus/Del Rio for myself. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

RAVEN said:


> Agreed with funnyfaces to an extent. Good or bad, we are getting some feuds behind the matches, which is better than simply adding filler matches.
> 
> Ambrose vs Rollins, Reigns vs Authority, Usos vs Wyatts, Swagger vs Rusev, Jericho vs Miz/Wyatts, Cesaro vs Kofi/Langston, AJ vs Paige, Naomi vs Cameron and even Summer vs Layla are all active feuds atm.
> 
> What will be interesting is seeing which ones WWE saves for Summerslam and which ones are given away on BG.


Whilst I agree and I am happy with the WWE for actually building feuds within the midcard etc, I can't help but feel that some of these matches would benefit from an extra months build and pushed onto Summerslam as opposed to laying all eggs in the Battleground basket and rematching them at Summerslam.

Jericho for example could face Miz at Battleground etc.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

People saying battleground will be PPV of the year :Jordan 

Have you seen that Main event? It makes me nauseous thinking about it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Erik. said:


> Whilst I agree and I am happy with the WWE for actually building feuds within the midcard etc, I can't help but feel that some of these matches would benefit from an extra months build and pushed onto Summerslam as opposed to laying all eggs in the Battleground basket and rematching them at Summerslam.
> 
> Jericho for example could face Miz at Battleground etc.


The only problem is that if they did that, then more people will whine about how Battleground is just filler before Summerslam. You can't satisfy wrestling fans.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Well when the product is complete dogshit how could they be satisfied :kobe8

I know you like this era more than most FF, but I seriously dont see how anyone can defend the current product, its a mess.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh I'm not saying that the product is really good now. I just think that we as wrestling fans have an inherent victim complex that makes us never want to feel satisfied. In addition, the flaws that we point out now are not unique to this time period and have existed even in thriving eras. That's why I defend these past few years.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> People saying battleground will be PPV of the year :Jordan
> 
> Have you seen that Main event? It makes me nauseous thinking about it.


I said it because on paper it certainly has that kind of potential. Seriously, if Ambrose/Rollins is happening with all of those announced matches, WM 30 may not be the best PPV of the year by miles of distance anymore.

Sure, a lot of the stuff is matches that should've been saved for SummerSlam, but what the fuck, they didn't save Shield/Wyatts for WrestleMania either and look how that turned out. But admitedly, the Main Event sounds pretty low.

To make it simple, this is is how I would've booked Battleground's card without ruining SummerSlam's:
*- Cena/Orton/Kane/Rollins for the WWEWHC Title* _(The three stooges of the Authority are placed by HHH into the WWEWHC Title scene, with 3/4 chances that the title returns to the power team; interference-a-mania runs wild and with the help of Reigns and Ambrose, Cena beats the odds again and retains the title, but while the other two fight off Orton and Rollins respectively - Kane would be laid down somewhere too -, Lesnar enters and F-5's Cena to end the show)
_*- Ambrose/Reigns* _(For HHH to get rid of the threat of Reigns and Ambrose constantly haunting Rollins, he decides to put the two former Shield teammates against each other; they shake hands before and after the match, and Ambrose shocks the world and beats the much more protected Reigns by an inch)_
*- Jericho/Miz* _(Speaks for itself; Jericho wins and Wyatts attack him setting up the SS feud)_
*- Sheamus & Usos/Wyatts*, Winners Take US & Tag Titles _(With the Usos still feuding with the Wyatts, and the mini-feud between Sheamus and Bray before MITB, I would've booked this match not only to wrap up all ends but to have something that fits in with the "Battleground" name; the faces would win with Rowan getting pinned after a Brogue Kick and Double Splash)
_ *- AJ/Naomi/Cameron* for the Divas Title _(The ongoing feud with Paige and AJ would wait until SS to blow off, while I'd tie in the Naomi/Cameron break-up into a Triple Threat; Paige would help AJ to win)_
*- IC Title Battle Royal* _(Personally I'd like a tournament better, but I can live with a Battle Royal too as it allows for other wrestlers not in the card to get a PPV slot; Cesaro wins the IC Title)_
*- Rusev/Swagger* _(Only SummerSlam match I'd bring on here, for the sake of doing a double countout ending that sets up a No DQ war at SummerSlam)_

Simple, effective, logical, looks GOOD and doesn't rip the heat off SummerSlam's card. IS IT THAT HARD TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT, WWE?!


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Oh I'm not saying that the product is really good now. I just think that we as wrestling fans have an inherent victim complex that makes us never want to feel satisfied. In addition, the flaws that we point out now are not unique to this time period and have existed even in thriving eras. That's why I defend these past few years.


The previous eras had their flaws too but the thing is, you always make a bigger deal out of them when it's the past and always downplay them for this era. You shit on 2005 for things that this era is even more guilty of but then completely no-sell these same flaws when they exist in this era.

Unless it's 2012 post-Extreme Rules, I always tend to be optimistic and hope for the better, but the product has been in a hopeless rut since WM/ER and there's not even a "this is the summer, things will get better" chance. Bryan's injury has really fucked them over but it doesn't help that they aren't able to put out something interesting with everybody else on the roster.

Yeah, Ambrose/Rollins has potential, but I've lost interest because they botched the living hell out of The Shield's split. They had Rollins turn with the sole purpose of SWERVE~! and when they pulled the trigger, they had no idea how to go forward so they just split all three and the whole main event scene looks like a mess with The Authority and their henchmen, Cena, Reigns, Rollins and Ambrose all over the place. In my case, it doesn't help that I'm not invested one bit in the undercard players so everything is a whole bunch of "who gives a fuck?" to me.

It amazes me how they had three great PPVs back to back at the start of the year and since then, things just got out of control and we are where we're at now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey, wasn't Craig or someone who was doing reviews of the PPV's from 2008, even giving Finlay/JBL ****+ or something like that?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Craig does a lot of things. Drinking and forgetting about PPV reviews is one of them.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You shouldn't talk too much, since those shows await you too 8*D

But then again, great part of 2008 PPV's was good (Royal Rumble, No Way Out, WrestleMania, One Night Stand, SummerSlam, Unforgiven, No Mercy, Cyber Sunday and Armageddon were all good shows, Judgment Day and Night Of Champions were decent, Survivor Series was 1/2 good 1/2 terrible, Backlash and Great American Bash I don't remember but I have a small memory of them being decent too ), so you're lucky. :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm with ATF to an extent as well. I'm not gonna say Battleground is gonna be as good as WrestleMania, but on paper I think it looks hella good so far. Sure the main event could be poopy, but it also features Roman Reigns and could also be an all-out war. No disqualifications always apply in these matches. I'm looking forward to the battle royal because I love battle royals. I'm also not so sure Cesaro is the foregone conclusion as our winner either. I mean, he probably will be but they could sneak in a Ziggler or Bo Dallas victory and I'd be ok with it. I have no idea why Sheamus is involved though. Jericho vs. Wyatt should be awesome. I've never seen their NXT match so I don't know what I'm in for. Add in the new matches they announced on the Smackdown tapings and I'm pretty pumped for it. Don't think the product is in the shitter at all.

I think they're giving us these big matches on Battleground instead of Summerslam because they might go with the same format of the Summerslam show last year. Three big matches and short & fun filler in between. There's big potential we'll get a huge WWE Title match (Cena vs. Lesnar?) and two big rivalry matches (Ambrose vs. Rollins in a gimmick match & HHH vs. Reigns?). With those three matches on paper that's all you need to sell the ppv. Everything else won't matter too much.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Gotta love how Cal did a best of 2000s project that ended last year, yet is only going through the PPVs now. That scatty bastard is going to forget where he lives next.



> Location: New York City


Owait


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rah said:


> Gotta love how Cal did a best of 2000s project that ended last year, yet is only going through the PPVs now. That scatty bastard is going to forget where he lives next.
> 
> 
> 
> Owait


I didn't do a best of 2000's project, actually . I didn't participate. So ha.

And I don't really need to know where I live, I barely leave the house . But it isn't New York City or anywhere near there .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> I didn't do a best of 2000's project, actually . I didn't participate. So ha.
> 
> And I don't really need to know where I live, I barely leave the house . But it isn't New York City or anywhere near there .


SoCal.

Fits with both sentences.



_____
Anyway, that Evans/Chavo match was bloody fantastic. It started off as a great TV match and transitioned into a great match, period, about halfway in. Their desperation to finally be a part of the title hunt showed in their wrestling - and its something a lot of newer guys forget to add. They have this story where the win means more than anything else, at that moment, yet they just slap together the same old standard moves or suplexes. Here, though, both men are going more-and-more out of their comfort zones and being caught short because of it.

Evans/Regal was a whole other level, though. It appears they lost the crowd towards the end, and closed the match off a bit early, but start to finish it may just be one of the best house show matches I've seen. Regal is a terrific character act and Bourne is almost the epitome of a less-is-more highflying babyface. Of course over-saturating your talent pool with guys of that calibre would be of no use, but there's no reason why Bourne couldn't be a running addition to the on-air programme, even with Mysterio on board. Not only is he massively over here, but he's still divergent enough not to look like a copy of Mysterio's purpose or style. If Generico's being fitted into replacing Mysterio, as the endearing babyface, I assume Neville becomes Bourne's successor, too, in delivering some breathtaking air witchcraft. Clearly HHH sees enough of a gap to air both of them in NXT, it's almost too bad that Dunn and Vince never saw that with Bourne. I understand his position wasn't favourable after grassing higher talent following his wellness suspension but, for fuck's sake, Bourne's a massive loss of talent.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Jericho vs. Wyatt should be awesome. I've never seen their NXT match so I don't know what I'm in for.


Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt (NXT 05.01.2013)

x20m4ll


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

ATF said:


> Hey, wasn't Craig or someone who was doing reviews of the PPV's from 2008, even giving Finlay/JBL ****+ or something like that?


That was me, unless someone else did them as well. I still have Backlash on my laptop but it just seems so unappealing and I don't want to go out of order. I might get to it one day.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just finished the Sheamus/Del Rio Last Man Standing match. I liked it. Nothing special but a good TV match. Both guys looked like hell with cuts and bruises all over them. No super memorable moments but some good physicality throughout. I however didn't like the ending at all. Made no sense to me how Sheamus picked Del Rio up with ease and stood there with him, then proceeded to sell the damage like he had such a hard time hoisting him up. Then both guys jump to their feet at a count of 9. Not cool. Good match but nothing special. May have liked their July 4th Smackdown match better. Probably go *** and *** 1/4 for their SD match last week.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You liked that more than I did it seems 

I would also give that ***1/4 rating to their match from last week on Smackdown. Their best match yet is either Sheamus' last TV match from 2013 (the one where Del Rio brutally attacked Sheamus' bruised leg) or their Night Of Champions 2012 match, both of which I have ***1/2. I remember their Money In The Bank 2012 match being smart and shit, but also pretty boring. SummerSlam 2012 the same, only spottier and with a stupid ass ending that made me think Sheamus was actually the heel (as did the "borrowing" of Del Rio's car).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their SD match was good stuff. Loved Del Rio's counter into the arm breaker near the end.

-----------

Finally watched Dolph vs Miz from Main Event. Haha. What a barely decent match that was. Nothing worse than giving two guys lots of time when they don't know how to use it properly. Dolph had a match about the same quality vs Zack Ryder in less than three minutes, a few episodes prior, for example. While this match was working from behind from the very start - IE Miz being babyface & Dolph as the heel - it would have had more of a chance to succeed in a sub-ten minute format. Main Event has been a mediocre waste of time up to this point. Only three matches worth seeing & I'm nearly done w/the year.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Was hoping Sheamus/Del Rio LMS would be worthwhile. Guess I'll give that a miss.

Downloaded Zayn/Gabriel from some NXT show last night. Not sure what to expect but I'm in the mood for some Sami. Thoughts later provided I get around to watching it.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

After the talk about Nitro '99 and women, was browsing YT and found this :lmao






Forget Rock N Roll/Midnights lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Main Event 11/28/2012 in the books. Cena vs Sandow was a super flat Cena formula match that exposes Sandow as the less than exceptional worker that he is. Too bad. Was hoping that would hold up as a fun match. I'll always have the failed cash in last year to satisfy me on this scenario.

Cesaro had an extended squash vs Ryder to end the episode. That was better. However, nothing noteworthy. Better match was on PPV a few months before this bout. That's good though. Hardly can say the PPV match was better than what was given on TV these days.

Random anything w/Sami Zayn in it is worth seeing comment here. Ok, it only wasn't true vs Neville last year b/c that was awful, but hey, all the rest is product of the best.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cody did you ever post your thoughts on Money in the Bank? I don't recall seeing them.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damien Sandow somehow had a bad match against Christian last year on Main Event. I don't remember Zayn/Neville being poor though. It was really fun. Fun fun fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I don't have much to say about it. Everything sucked except for a decent Rusev vs Langston match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Saying Zayn/Neville was awful is terribly harsh, and Sandow is less than exceptional but still good (or did you not mean to call him a bad wrestler, just a less than stellar one?), but yeah, outside of that everything about Cody's post is right. Well the first one - saying everything on MITB sucked except for Rusev/Langston? Well who didn't see that coming 8*D Oh, and for my money's worth, Christian's Main Event stance in all of 2013 wasn't really up to his standard. I remember the Fandango match being enjoyable. Nothing else.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching DX vs Rated RKO (New Years Revolution 2007). Build up looked great, that visual of them bringing out a bloodied up Flair and smacking the chair of his head though.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

That match is great, hitman. Definitely a tag team gem of 2007 along with Hardyz w/Benoit vs MNM w/MVP from the Rumble. 

ADR/Christian from ER 11 seemed like an entire Christian carry-job, even so, the match is quite dull. The work until the finishing stretch is very unremarkable, I literally can't tell you one thing that happened, nothing pops up. Del Rio appeared lost too, hence the carry job.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HHH was out until Summerslam after this match wasn't he.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> HHH was out until Summerslam after this match wasn't he.


Yep, torn quadricep #2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> That match is great, hitman. Definitely a tag team gem of 2007 along with *Hardyz w/Benoit vs MNM w/MVP from the Rumble*.
> 
> ADR/Christian from ER 11 seemed like an entire Christian carry-job, even so, the match is quite dull. The work until the finishing stretch is very unremarkable, I literally can't tell you one thing that happened, nothing pops up. Del Rio appeared lost too, hence the carry job.


Actually I'm pretty sure that was from No Way Out. The Rumble only had Hardys vs MNM. 

Another tag team gem from 2007 y'all should be looking for is Hardys vs Cade & Murdoch from Backlash. Badass stuff.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hardys reunion was the bees knees. Some stellar matches came from it. Best being the classic from Rumble '07. Tremendous.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Both are solid matches. Another- Hardyz vs WGTT from ONS, MOTN over RVD/Orton. EAT MY DUST.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RVD vs Orton is bad, so that is hardly a surprising comment.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hayley's word is the gospel, so now that makes it universally bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that was directed at me, wasn't it? 

WRONG THOUGH - for its credit, Hardys/WGTT was a very solid Ladder match that for a change didn't work around mindless spots, but Orton/RVD won my heart over for being easily the best told story of its PPV. RVD being sloppy on purpose to sell the concussion, the feel-good (of sorts) ending and the post-match beatdown were stuff that just had me smiling. I may be the biggest fan of that match ever, but I really don't care. So FUCK YOU ALL. :side:

Oh and yeah, Hardys/MNM was pretty classical. Royal Rumble '07 overall is a classic.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I need to see more matches of WGTT. I do find Benjamin/Haas as a team underrated tbh. Really like most of their SD '03 stuff. What other essentials are there.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

WGGT w/ Kurt Angle vs Benoit and Lesnar from NWO 2003 is a good one. The aftermath is only sweeter with Angle on the floor swearing at Lesnar, he looks like he's about to burst into tears, it's hilarious. Angle aims to portray a mental patient and captures it perfectly. 

:kurt


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah. A sick one at that. 
"We all have our vices. Mine just happens to be... GUTTERSLUTS. (...) Booker... I wanna have sex with your wife. (...) That kinda beastiality sex. Perverted sex". - Kurt Angle
:usangle

For Benjamin and Hass, there's the match with Eddie & Chavo at Backlash '03. That is pretty awesome. Oh, and the battles with Mysterio & Kidman both at Vengeance and Smackdown too. Those are must-watch stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Yeah. A sick one at that.
> "We all have our vices. Mine just happens to be... GUTTERSLUTS. (...) Booker... I wanna have sex with your wife. (...) That kinda beastiality sex. Perverted sex". - Kurt Angle
> :usangle
> 
> There's the match with Eddie & Chavo at Backlash '03. That is pretty awesome. Oh, and the battles with Mysterio & Kidman both at Vengeance and Smackdown too. Those are must-watch stuff.


Thanks. I was trying to think of that Vengeance match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

WGGT vs Eddie and Tajri from JD 2003 is pure awesomeness. Watch that too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> WGGT vs Eddie and Tajri from JD 2003 is pure awesomeness. Watch that too.


Cheers, I need to watch the three SD matches they had too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I also heard remember seeing a Dailymotion video of a WGTT vs Edge/Benoit match, but I've never seen it so I don't know if it's any good.

Anyway, we talk about tag team gems. Why don't we EVER talk about the Steiners vs Headshrinkers from WM 9 or Steiners vs Heavenly Bodies from SS 1993 or Rock N' Roll Express vs Heavenly Bodies from SVS 1993? All three tags from 1993 that are awesome.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

While we're at it, The Midnight Express/The Fantastics from COTC 1 is the shiznic.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

^^Meltzer gave a match they had before this the full 5, I know Cjack was hunting down all of Meltzers ***** matches, have you gotten to this yet?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> ^^Meltzer gave a match they had before this the full 5, I know Cjack was hunting down all of Meltzers ***** matches, have you gotten to this yet?


Pretty sure it would have been this one:

The Midnight Express vs The Fantastics – (NWA Worldwide – 4/26/88)

*Air Date: 5/14/88 - Tape Date: 4/26/88

x1cvien

He did give this 5 * though:

4/19/86 Sheepherders vs. Fantastics (Bobby Fulton/Tommy Rogers)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I didn't realize Meltzer gave a Midnight/Fantastics match the full 5. I've seen the one Zeppers just posted, it got ****3/4 from me, and the one from COTC 1 got ****1/2. I might like the Midnight/Fantastics matches even more than the ones they had with Rock n Roll. Haven't seen a bad one yet. 


I'm loving all these Saturday Nights Main Events they just posted on the Network. I just watched a kickin Steamboat/Jake Roberts match, pretty short but super sweet and right on the money. Now I've got Savage/Steamboat in a lumberjack match dialed up, with Hart Foundation vs Bulldogs up next. I just love the atmosphere of these matches. I'm gonna try and please Chismo by watching Hogan/Andre and the infamous referee switch, he seems to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread so I'll give it a shot.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Actually I was wrong, the match Meltzer gave 5 stars was The Sheepherders vs The Fantastics from 4/19/86

Treading along in my Summerslam watchings, got 1988 on right now on my TV and the event kind of sucks but watching all these old SS shows has been a blast.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

There are some more recs in the comments here regarding WON 5* Matches: http://starratingslist.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/wrestling-observer-5-star-ratings-list.html


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm gonna try and please Chismo by watching Hogan/Andre and the infamous referee switch, he seems to think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread so I'll give it a shot.


That's the rematch, though. It's still good, but the WM classic is severely underrated. I understand it doesn't please execution marks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Chismo said:


> That's the rematch, though. It's still good, but the WM classic is severely underrated. I understand it doesn't please execution marks.



I know it's the rematch, I thought I remembered you posting something to Hayley about how the Main Event match was even better than WM....oh well. I'm actually watching it right now


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Anyway, that Evans/Chavo match was bloody fantastic. It started off as a great TV match and transitioned into a great match, period, about halfway in. Their desperation to finally be a part of the title hunt showed in their wrestling - and its something a lot of newer guys forget to add. They have this story where the win means more than anything else, at that moment, yet they just slap together the same old standard moves or suplexes. Here, though, both men are going more-and-more out of their comfort zones and being caught short because of it.


HA. I TOLD YOU. Well maybe I didn't tell you directly, but I praised the match all to heaven and someone might have read it. Whatever. Point is there is another fan of the match now. I wonder if I can find another who thinks it's WWE MOTY for 2008.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Barely Legal DVD comparison:










WWE version has better picture, but RF has the original audio including the licensed music.

Along with the music being dubbed, WWE censored cussing from the wrestlers, but not from the audience. Also, the promos for Terry Funk and Taz before their matches were removed entirely. WTF?

- Vic


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Only match worthy anything on that show is the trios which has no entrance music pre-match, so I'd take the remastered.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Just watched the coveted Finlay/Benoit JD 06 bout for the first time due to not ordering this when it came out or being able to find it on ytube or Dmotion. It was a real solid, physical bout. Benoit`s signature machine pace and intensity started slowing a little bit aftter 05, but once in a while the right guy brought shades of old Benoit out and Finlay sure brought intensity. I would like to review that match but first admit I rated HBK/Benj too high. That sure as hell wasnt *****1/4. a good match with good meta games and a money finish yes but definately not 4 stars

* Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day 06*
I thought the opening minutes of the match were the best. the hard opening lock up that stalemated and extended to the floor Really established the story of this fight: two intense and evenly matched technical vets going at it. That early submission trade further illustrating technical experience and even matching. Hell while neither man is Cro Crop I liked the staredown and the slap exchange established power advantage. Heels these days don't use the ref enough. You can use the ref to gain heat in circumstances aside from ref bumps as shown here. Liked Finlay feigning the eye injury to the ref to gain a cheap upper hand. Heels these days dont use the ref enough. You can use the ref for more heat getting ways than a ref bump ala here. Liked Finlay going for the neck most the match, liked both guys using the whole ring as weapon. As weird as this sounds, I liked the submission pace, not too drawn out yet the escape came after a struggle and effect not before (Cena's STF spots always struggle with this. That german on the outside by Benoit was cool. The three amigo tribute starting from the reciever outside the ring was nice. Didn't care for the immediate finish though too quick for my taste and hated how Benoit popped right up with the overpower set up instead of a tra set up and thought the tap was too quick. In fact, the recovery pace in this one was off throughout imo aside from that clubbing spot which was great for Finlay to get heat and Chris to sell Finlay's physicality.

Overall, a match that as a fan/studier of the craft I give borderline just outside of great at first watch with """3/4 stars, but if I were a wrestler, I think there is superb value to study proper low risk, high quality work here and just how to lay foundation for your match while seeing it come to fruition later. Finlay's heel work is studiable.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Been watching reviews from OSW reviews and it's got me wanting to go back and watch some matches.

Thought i'd watch Warrior/Hogan (WM6) again which i initially considered an ok match. After the 2nd watch i gotta say it was really good.

Next up some Powers of Pain


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I know it's the rematch, I thought I remembered you posting something to Hayley about how the Main Event match was even better than WM....oh well. I'm actually watching it right now


Probably confusing it w/my comment of preferring the rematch over the WM match.



Yeah1993 said:


> HA. I TOLD YOU. Well maybe I didn't tell you directly, but I praised the match all to heaven and someone might have read it. Whatever. Point is there is another fan of the match now. I wonder if I can find another who thinks it's WWE MOTY for 2008.


Link me.

-------------

Sheamus vs Del Rio LMS last night was a farce. Damn gimmick matches.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Are you guys aware that there was a female Malenko?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Link me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zr2HJXjvq7I


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Are you guys aware that there was a female Malenko?


I've watched enough Nattie Neidhart to know I don't like her wrestling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Random upload: 

Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus (Street Fight - Raw 07.30.2012)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

While you're at it, upload Cena/Bryan from 2012, as well as Jericho/Sheamus II


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> While you're at it, upload Cena/Bryan from 2012, as well as Jericho/Sheamus II


Think i have Bryan/Cena.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh that's cool, thanks man. What about Jericho/Sheamus II? It's from that Smackdown episode where Zack Ryder acts as GM.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Oh that's cool, thanks man. What about Jericho/Sheamus II? It's from that Smackdown episode where Zack Ryder acts as GM.


Havn't got that one I'm afraid mate.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Aw, that sucks, thanks anyway mate .

Well, 2014 saw the retirement of Punk, but Bryan apparently may very well be done for the next year as well. Way to go, luck. Still, at least this is the perfect time for the rise of someone else I guess (don't like too much that it has to be Reigns though, but hell, could've been a much worse choice).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao the Raw after Armageddon in 1999 is where they reveal that Henry shagged Mae Young. Lillian Garcia has to stop herself from bursting out laughing while announcing him to the ring :lmao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I miss Punk and im going to miss Bryan, IDGAF what others think. We don't really know the full extent of Bryan's injurie(s), but i certainly hope we see him back soon enough, maybe not this year but at some point.

I just cannot believe what has happened to him since winning the belt.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> * Benoit/Finlay Judgement Day 06*
> I thought the opening minutes of the match were the best. the hard opening lock up that stalemated and extended to the floor Really established the story of this fight: two intense and evenly matched technical vets going at it. That early submission trade further illustrating technical experience and even matching. Hell while neither man is Cro Crop I liked the staredown and the slap exchange established power advantage. Heels these days don't use the ref enough. You can use the ref to gain heat in circumstances aside from ref bumps as shown here. Liked Finlay feigning the eye injury to the ref to gain a cheap upper hand. Heels these days dont use the ref enough. You can use the ref for more heat getting ways than a ref bump ala here. Liked Finlay going for the neck most the match, liked both guys using the whole ring as weapon. As weird as this sounds, I liked the submission pace, not too drawn out yet the escape came after a struggle and effect not before (Cena's STF spots always struggle with this. That german on the outside by Benoit was cool. The three amigo tribute starting from the reciever outside the ring was nice. Didn't care for the immediate finish though too quick for my taste and hated how Benoit popped right up with the overpower set up instead of a tra set up and thought the tap was too quick. In fact, the recovery pace in this one was off throughout imo aside from that clubbing spot which was great for Finlay to get heat and Chris to sell Finlay's physicality.
> 
> Overall, a match that as a fan/studier of the craft I give borderline just outside of great at first watch with """3/4 stars, but if I were a wrestler, I think there is superb value to study proper low risk, high quality work here and just how to lay foundation for your match while seeing it come to fruition later. Finlay's heel work is studiable.


I gave that match ****3/4, I think it's one of the greatest matches in WWE history.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Probably confusing it w/my comment of preferring the rematch over the WM match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah, that's probably it 



The Fab Four said:


> I miss Punk and im going to miss Bryan, IDGAF what others think. We don't really know the full extent of Bryan's injurie(s), but i certainly hope we see him back soon enough, maybe not this year but at some point.
> 
> I just cannot believe what has happened to him since winning the belt.


It's just freaking depressing is what it is. I really hope when he comes back he's better than ever and gets his proper run. He just had the worst luck ever.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Feel like Orton, how's the WM26 triple threat against Legacy? match against Swagger at ER? and against Ziggler at NOC 2012?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Feel like Orton, how's the WM26 triple threat against Legacy? match against Swagger at ER? and against Ziggler at NOC 2012?


Ummm... maybe you should take a look at some of his earlier matches instead . 04-06 is always good .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Feel like Orton, how's the WM26 triple threat against Legacy? match against Swagger at ER? and against Ziggler at NOC 2012?


The WM 26 Triple Threat is kinda dull but not horrible; the match with Swagger isn't too horrible either; the Ziggler match is one of those super controversial matches that everyone outside this board and almost everyone inside this board hates, personally I don't remember it much 

If you want a good forgotten Orton recommendation, check out the match against Cody Rhodes @ Vengeance 2011. Or do what Cal said, check out some of his 04-06 stuff.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the better HBK/Benoit match from Raw?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

5/3/04. From what I remember both* are definitely worth a watch, though.


* = I only remember there being two, could be more, unsure.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

From the HBK/Benoit stuff, the best of the two is definitely the one for the World Title imo.

I mentioned Vengeance 2011 earlier, I totally forgot just how jaw-droppingly consistent that whole show was. Pretty much everything except for the super formulaic and flat HHH & Punk/Awesome Truth tag is worth watching. HENRY/SHOW WAS SO :mark:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> 5/3/04. From what I remember both* are definitely worth a watch, though.
> 
> 
> * = I only remember there being two, could be more, unsure.


Thx. Think the other one was In Jan.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Just watch em both:

Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw May 3rd 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2ULkUkyoDP1mA50agQ (Private)

Chris Benoit Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw February 16th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/kuirLH6QHGxxiV4WfsF (Private)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2/16/04 IIRC.

edit - Cal post. yeah, it was 2/16/04. ME CORRECTY.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well done. We're proud of you and your memory .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah1993 said:


> HA. I TOLD YOU. Well maybe I didn't tell you directly, but I praised the match all to heaven and someone might have read it. Whatever. Point is there is another fan of the match now. *I wonder if I can find another who thinks it's WWE MOTY for 2008.*


I _might_ bite, but that's more a reflection on WWE 2008 not being that good more than the match being _that_ great. Maybe. I do know I'd take a good couple matches from each year the past few years over Chavo/Bourne, though, but that may just be an apples/oranges comparison.

What else even happened in 2008? Not a year I was following at the time, but looking back through what I've read happening or have seen, there isn't many really good matches.

*HBK/Flair* - good match but not great. Definitely below Chavo/Bourne

*HBK/Jericho* - I find Jericho to be terribly overrated as a wrestler, but I'm not sure what 2008 Y2J was like. HBK leans more to the overrated pile, too, but in a big match environ he can get his points across quite well. Might be good?

*HHH/Hardy* - haven't seen this in ages, so I can't judge. Most seem to say this is HHH's career performance, and I do agree to some extent (WM 30 is probably my pick, though).

*Hardy/Umaga* - haven't seen this, I don't recall, but Hardy's best role is taking punishment and soldiering on. Should be good, but I have reservation it's as good as Bourne/Chavo

*Edge/Undertaker* - I remember liking their matches, and Edge a good bit, but I was also in the Davey Richards camp years ago. So, skip?

*Bourne/Mysterio* - from paper, this seems the only true match that could match or beat Bourne/Chavo


Anything that I'm missing? I'm genuinely wanting to know how this ranks for the year. TV match demographic aside, having Chavo Guerrero in a MotY is just too much for me to comprehend.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I'm pretty sure that Edge/Taker WM 24 is the 2008 MOTY as far as I'm concerned. There's Cena/Jericho from SVS too, as well as HBK/Jericho from Judgment Day, Morrison/Bourne from September on ECW and Edge/Taker HIAC as legit MOTY contenders for 2008 iirc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for the links Cal. 

Last PPV I watched was BATB '96. Fuck the Mysterio/Psychosis match is rather grand.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Rah said:


> I _might_ bite, but that's more a reflection on WWE 2008 not being that good more than the match being _that_ great. Maybe. I do know I'd take a good couple matches from each year the past few years over Chavo/Bourne, though, but that may just be an apples/oranges comparison.
> 
> What else even happened in 2008? Not a year I was following at the time, but looking back through what I've read happening or have seen, there isn't many really good matches.
> 
> ...


Edge/Taker HIAC is a brilliant classic.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

1. Taker/Show CS
2. Taker/Kane SD
3. Orton/Cena NWO
4. Finlay/JBL WM
5. Finlay/Bourne/Henry ECW maybe, dunno. SD Chamber was sweet so maybe that.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Henry/Finlay 9/16/08 + 11/4/08, Hardy/Henry 8/19/08 + that one Austrian house show match, and to a lesser extent Finlay/Hardy 11/11/08 would be closer to my MOTY than most PPV matches. I honestly might have all of those above anything on PPV that year, but I'd need to do some re-watching. There's a Regal/Punk house show from the end of the year that I'd stack next to practically anything on PPV, as well. I'm betting Hardy/Bourne from Cyber Sunday is a WWE MOTYC, at least, but IDR it. Think they all smoke Michaels/Flair even if that's a match I like. I'm not big on any Michaels/Jericho other than GAB which others hate so I don't know if I'd even like it on re-watch again. Judgment Day is pretty good. The rest I think are actually pretty much bad. 

Last time I watched Edge/Taker at Mania was like four years when I actually liked Edge and even back then I was still underwhelmed. Definitely do not like the HIAC any more and the TLC is something that any two people reading this right now could outdo. Haven't seen their Backlash match since it happened, I don't think. I'm betting I'd still like Trip/Hardy but not as much as a bunch of Henry and Finlay matches. I honestly hated that Hardy/Umaga cage five years ago but Lord knows my tastes have changed eighteen times since. Bourne/Rey I have no memory of. 

There is the Taker/Big Show feud. I still think the LMS is really good but.....IDK, I kind of felt like my opinion dropped more than expected when I watched it for the 2000s poll. I LOVED Finlay/JBL from Mania when I last watched it but it probably isn't a real WWE MOTYC. I wonder what I'd think of Show/Maywether nowadays. There are other matches on ECW I hear are awesome but I either don't remember or haven't seen them. I'm not even going to say ''I should go through that year in full'' because it's been the single most over-used phrase I've uttered in the past two years. Other than ''Nah she ain't Asian, why bother?''.

I have write-ups of some of this TV stuff but you should go in knowing nothing.


Zep what did you think of Malenko/Disco? Match ROCKS.


edit - Cena/Orton is another match I need to see again. If I ever get done the 2010 list, 2008 and 2013 are getting done after it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Taker/Show LMS is a MOTYC for me as well, and I'd be willing to guess that Matt/Bourne would also be MOTYC material for y'all guys. Cyber Sunday '08 is the most underrated PPV of this era, period.

I just watched what's probably one of, if not the, best First Blood matches ever (which isn't saying much but this one was good), Taker/Kennedy from Survivor Series '06. That is, alongside Benoit/Chavo, the sole good thing about that useless PPV. The storytelling of Taker simply punishing Kennedy instead of just busting him open at the spot is well done, and Kennedy sells the ribs pretty nicely, but there are a few iffy things about the execution of it all (MVP could've done better in his role since he was kinda crucial in the match, and the ending wasn't that well executed either), but still, good and smart match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

YES. Everyone should love Undertaker/Kennedy matches. Fuck the haters.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Zep what did you think of Malenko/Disco? Match ROCKS.


Can't believe im saying this, esp regarding Disco.....but i fucking enjoyed it lol. Leading up to the PPV i was sick of his comedy stick already, but in thr match he was actually alright and the two seemed to gel well. Definelty underrated IMO.

El Colibri vs Tel-Star (Rey Mysterio) (So-Cal Handheld 03.31.1990)

x217qzs

I believe Rey is 15 years old here. Think his uncle gave him the Mysterio Jr name in 91/92.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My match of the year for 2008 is DEFINITELY Danielson/McGuinness 6th Anniversary Show. Nothing else even comes close. But if we are doing WWE only, the Hardy/Henry match Yeah sent me is probably my favorite, with Taker/Show CS coming in close second.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2008 WWE MOTYC is pretty much dominated by UNDERTAKER.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Well, I started with the HBK/Jericho ladder match. It sucks. A lot. I want to stop watching wrestling now. Forever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, 2008 was arguably Taker's best in-ring year. From the Edge series, to the awesome singles stuff with the likes of Kane, Festus and Big Show, to some other gems like the Batista match before Backlash and the HHH match, it was a rare commodity to see Taker not deliever that year.

...

Which makes it the more unfathomable in how did he manage to have arguably the worst Casket match ever against one of his greatest rivals Big Show at Survivor Series 8*D

Anyways, thoughts on New Year's Revolution 2007 and Backlash 2005 both?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Backlash 05 from memory is one hell of a show. Batista/HHH SHOULD have been awesome had Batista not decided to do a HBK and completely no sell the back work during the finish. Benoit/Edge LMS is great. Kane Vs Viscera is tons of fun as well. Shelton/Jericho often gets praised but I don't really remember it.

Shit, just realised I don't own NYR 07. Thought I'd bought all the 07 PPV's I needed. I keep forgetting there was a PPV BEFORE the RR for a couple of years...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone struggling for something to watch:

KENTA vs Low Ki - GHC Jr. Heavyweight Championship - ROH Final Battle 2005






This is fucking awesome. ****3/4. :mark:

*From ROH Official YT channel.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

I'll tell you what's NOT the 2008 MOTYC: Jericho/Michaels ladder match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Struggling for something to watch? That's certainly no me! WCW Nitro late 1999 keeps me occupied baby!

BUZZKILL~! Brad Armstrong coming down to the ring dressed as a mix between his brother Road Dogg and a Hippy talking about being HIGH... on life :lmao. Another genius idea by Russo.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Taker/Austin smokes Taker/Kennedy in the first blood match department. Another stipulation ruler goes to the Undertaker.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

My next Nitro to watch is the one after BATB. :mark: Along with watching a shitload of random stuff, i am trying to make my way through WCW Nitro's up until the end of 1998 (plus Thunder too)

Im still undecided whether to get '99 in the future lol.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Chismo said:


> I'll tell you what's NOT the 2008 MOTYC: Jericho/Michaels ladder match.


:side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

TANK ABBOTT VS MENG. This match actually interests me .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

When are you posting all these 1999-based videos?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Have you got to the Nash/Hall vs Pornstars match yet Cal? :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hoping to have them recorded either 2morrow or Saturday. Then I need to edit them all (10 in total). Then there will be 1 a week, but honestly not sure when the first will be out. Depends when I get the editing done . Gonna aim for the first one being online Monday.

Bah, Abbott Vs Meng lasted like 2 minutes and ended in a double countout as they both just fought up the rampway.

THEY ARE STILL FIGHTING BACKSTAGE though.

EDIT: That "tag" match was on the first or second Nitro I watched for this project lol.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

NYR 07 has Nitro/Hardy, RKO/DX and Umaga/Cena in its favor, each one being at least ***1/4 or over. Here are my ratings for the entire event:

Nitro/Hardy (***1/2)
Tag Team Turmoil (**)
Kenny Dykstra/Flair (*1/2)
Micky/Victoria (*)
RKO/DX (****)
Carlito/Masters (**)
Cena/Umaga (***3/4)

Definitely a watchable show, most of the crap is short and the long crap isn't that bad.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao Normal Smiley is hiding from Meng. The Mamelukes put Lash Leroux in a body bag and left him outside to find their car. Lash escaped, and when the Mamelukes came back, NORMAL SMILEY was hiding in the bag :lmao.

Of all the shite Russo wrote, Screamin' Norman Smiley was not one of them .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Well, I started with the HBK/Jericho ladder match. It sucks. A lot. I want to stop watching wrestling now. Forever.


Go watch Eddies ladder match with RVD on Raw in 2002 to cleanse your pallet. I've never been a fan of that Jericho/Michaels match, Shawn is just SO freaking bad in it, all the stiff shots can't do anything to save it.

Ive ecided there isn't a lot of things better in wrestling than a heelish, pissed off Eddie Guerrero deciding to work over an opponents back/mid section. He comes up with some of the most brutal, beastly offense I've ever seen.

I'm watching one of my all time favorite matches for the zillionth time, and it still makes me mark like a little kid hearing Michael Cole scream "EDDIE, STOP IT! EDDIE, ITS A WRESTLING MATCH, NOT A MASSACRE!" Cole is such a bad play by play guy these days, but Eddie really was his muse, he always did his best work when Eddie wrestled, similar to JR calling Foley and Austin matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Go watch Eddies ladder match with RVD on Raw in 2002 to cleanse your pallet. I've never been a fan of that Jericho/Michaels match, Shawn is just SO freaking bad in it, all the stiff shots can't do anything to save it.
> 
> If decided there isn't a lot of things better in wrestling than a heelish, pissed off Eddie Guerrero deciding to work over an opponents back/mid section. He comes up with some of the most brutal, beastly offense I've ever seen.


Yup. love this match:

x1w2wwi

Includes the fan run in too.


----------



## WOOLCOCK (Jun 24, 2011)

Tank Abbott pulling a knife on his opponent on PPV, leading to the most awkward cutaway by a camera and Schiavone's perplexed comment of 'does he have a...knife?' might just be the pinnacle of WCW fuckery.

Oh and Rah, that Punk/Regal MSG House Show match Yeah1993 talked about is 12/28/08. Excellent match, with Regal laying in a ton of nasty strikes that Punk sells excellently, and Punk even channels Misawa by folding himself up on a release half-nelson exploder suplex. Regal's control segment is really exceptional and it's probably the best match of Punk's WWE run from '06-'08.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwicCNbjlqE - match is here.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I despise Undertaker/Kennedy matches. Even the first blood match, but especially that last ride match. One of the worst stipulations ever, that last ride match is.



Another gem from 2008. Match starts eight minutes in. CM Punk kicks the shit out of Cody Rhodes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JBL/Taker was a damn good match, despite the Last Ride stipulation, imo. Crazy bloody brawl that was. Of course, I wouldn't dare to give it ****+ like Cal AKA Taker's husband did (8*D ), but I would give it around ***1/2. And Taker/Kennedy matches weren't that bad. No Mercy (which I still liked) and Armageddon were faulty sure, but Survivor Series was good. Imo that is.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Haven't seen the two stipulation matches from Taker/Kennedy since they originally aired, but their No Mercy match is pretty damn good up until the weird ending. **** all the way for that. Shocked me.

Speaking of Punk & Cody & '08 gems, I've said this before but the tag match where the Punkster & Kofi win the tag belts from Legacy is actually really good. They gave you the full match without commercials on Punk's dvd set. Believe I went *** 1/2 for it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another gem from '08 that Punk and Cody were both involved in would be the Team Orton vs Team Batista match from Survivor Series. That was badass stuff, awesomely booked (except for Regal being out in like 15 seconds ). ***1/2 for that match.

And for one that neither man was involved in - the ECW Championship Scramble from Unforgiven. Perfectly booked for what it was, Henry clocked in one of his best pre-Hall of Pain performances ever imo, awesome storytelling, great pace and structure with a fast but natural flow at start and all-out chaos at the end, and a great payoff with Matt Hardy finally winning a relevant title (and if you considered the ECW Title a World Title, finally winning a World Championship at that, before his brother even :lol) Even though the World Title one tried, none of the other 3 Scrambles that happened since that one came close to beating the original. I would give it ***3/4 now, and in the future, I might've even gone with ****.

Speaking of Unforgiven, how come we all talk about how great/horrible the Shawn/Y2J matches were, but always forget to mention the Unsanctioned match amongst those? Personally, I liked Shawn ignoring wrasslin' and just fighting all together, but I don't remember fuck else.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Judgment Day '08 will always be the best HBK/Y2J match. That's right, unpopular opinion right here.  I probably have that as a legitimate MOTY contender at **** 1/2. Nothing else from that year is coming past **** 1/4 from my memory. Edge/Taker and... yeah.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Judgment Day '08 will always be the best HBK/Y2J match. That's right, unpopular opinion right here.


I'm on board with that .


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That makes TWO things Cal and I agree on today. Gotta be a record.

I still need to watch that Taker/Kennedy Germany match...


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll third that. But it's not really unpopular. I'm pretty sure there's quite a lot of people who... oh yeah, WrestleMania 19. That's considered a ***** classic by many "outsiders". 

Anyways, does anyone even want to touch the Unsanctioned match I pointed out? Or the Scramble for that matter?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've only seen the Unsanctioned match in bits and pieces and never seen the Scramble matches from that PPV. Sorry.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I liked the Unsanctioned match, a Jericho squash, I'm always on board with that, prolly like ***3/4 in terms of starz.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was on a break from wrestling at the time, and i think ive only seen the HBJ/Jericho Ladder Match, keep meaning to go through them in order, i will do soon after i watch more All Japan Women.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Y'all should watch both the Unsanctioned and ECW Scramble matches from Unforgiven 2008, I'd say. I'd even say you should go ahead and watch both the Undertaker/Big Show/Vickie segment and the Smackdown Scramble as well. Unforgiven '08 overall is pretty solid altogether.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Well, I love the HBK/Jericho Wrestlemania match, so ill see if I like any of their 2008 stuff more.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Don't care for any of the 08 HBK/Jericho matches aside from JD. Don't think their ladder is trash or anything, in fact I think I gave it ***3/4 on last watch, but it has a bunch of flaws that stop it being ****3/4 like people gave it when it first happened.

ECW title scramble match is great. I liked that match concept. Wish they never got rid of it tbh. The ECW scramble in 09 is fun too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Absolutely nobody likes the Big Show/Taker/Vickie segment.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I KNOW. I just wanted to see if anyone fell in. 8*D

I too really enjoyed the Scramble concept. All the matches produced were fun and good (yes, even the least good of them all, the WHC Title one). ECW 08 being the standout.

Btw Cal, after your 1999 stuff, when do you expect preparing (and starting to post) those End of the Year videos?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Absolutely nobody likes the Big Show/Taker/Vickie segment.


Hi .



ATF said:


> I KNOW. I just wanted to see if anyone fell in. 8*D
> 
> I too really enjoyed the Scramble concept. All the matches produced were fun and good (yes, even the least good of them all, the WHC Title one). ECW 08 being the standout.
> 
> Btw Cal, after your 1999 stuff, when do you expect preparing (and starting to post) those End of the Year videos?


Might get one of them recorded this weekend, depending on how long the 1999 vids take me. Hell I might record the 1999 vids and the 00, 01, 02, 03 and 04 vids all at once if I can. If I do, I'll be posting the 00, 01 and 02 vids every wednesday, then the 03 and 04 ones the wednesday after I finish posting those years on my BLOG~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That's pretty cool. Personally, if I were you, I would do everything at once since I don't want to have weight on for something I might just forget later. Just a suggestion, you do as you know. BUT CAL HAS A LOT OF WORK TO DO 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I just found out I have more time 2morrow to record than I thought so I SHOULD HOPEFULLY be able to get everything recorded all at once.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Judgment Day '08 will always be the best HBK/Y2J match. That's right, unpopular opinion right here.  I probably have that as a legitimate MOTY contender at **** 1/2. Nothing else from that year is coming past **** 1/4 from my memory. Edge/Taker and... yeah.



I'm on board with that, JD is definitely the best of the bunch for HBK/Jericho. The only other match of theirs I really like is the GAB match because of the story telling.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Having just watched both Benoit/HBK matches, yeah i do prefer the May encounter. Although the Feb match is still pretty damn good IMO.

Think its back to Nitro for me, or maybe ill start watching the HBK/Jericho feud.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WATCH NITRO. I'll be watching another Nitro tonight. 2 more to go! THANK FUCK.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup, I will. I'm onto the 15th July 1996 episode. Hogan will be showing up for the first time since BATB.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Checked out some "outsider reviews" and I see a lot of ****+ ratings for Rock/Cena WM 28. Begs the question here: Rock/Cena 28 or Rock/Hogan WM? And for the sake of it, Rock/Cena 29 or Rock/Hogan NWO?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Rock/Hogan (WM) for me. I havn't seen Rock/Cena matches since they originally aired, and i don't really want to either TBH, although i do sorta, kinda, maybe wish to rewatch WM28 match again.....at some point.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Fuck me, Kane almost TOMBSTONED THE BIG SHOW on this 1999 Raw. Picked him up, had him on his shoulder and half way into turning him into position, then dropped him because the Outlaws were closing in on Tori. Was a pretty sweet match overall too. And now to Nitro... yey...


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

ATF said:


> Checked out some "outsider reviews" and I see a lot of ****+ ratings for Rock/Cena WM 28. Begs the question here: Rock/Cena 28 or Rock/Hogan WM? And for the sake of it, Rock/Cena 29 or Rock/Hogan NWO?


Rock vs. Hogan I by so much, it helped with Rock still being in his prime and the venue being indoors to ricochet the hot crowd. Rock vs. Hogan II was garbage, whereas Rock vs. Cena II, should it be the end, is something Rock can be proud of.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rock/Hogan WM18 for the first, though its close. Rock/Cena WM29 for the second.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Rock/Hogan is more special. That said, I can easily watch Rock/Cena I any time without problem. It's pretty long but time flies by every time I've watched it. Never had a problem with the match, it delivered to my expectations and has held up on every rewatch.

Haven't seen the rematches in a long, long, long time so I can't comment. I would go 4 stars for Once in a Lifetime, though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Rock/Hogan WM > the other matches. Everything else is trash and don't matter. Rock/Hogan is at least still entertaining.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rock vs. Hogan for both I'd say. Cena vs. Rock at 28 was pretty solid despite going too long while the rematch was utter dogshit. I haven't seen Rock/Hogan II but it doesn't even matter, no way it can be bas bad as the WrestleMania 29 main event.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Rock/Hogan I





Rock/Cena II
Rock/Cena I









Malaria






Rock/Hogan II

Imo


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Anyone else liked Taker/Kane from NOC?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Anyone else liked Taker/Kane from NOC?


Yup . Really great brawl. Loved their feud at that time... shame the other matches were beyond awful. If only Undertaker didn't get injured .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I did too. Adored it may I say. Doesn't hold a candle to Miz/Bryan as MOTN for its PPV but still really good stuff. HIAC and Buried Alive matches were utter garbage, though. Shame - Kane/Taker HIAC had been in the making since fucking 1997.

Speaking of Miz, which was the lesser of two evils - Miz/Cena WM 27 or I Quit?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Speaking of Miz, which was the lesser of two evils - Miz/Cena WM 27 or I Quit?


WTF is wrong with you, first Rock/Cena, now this shit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was inspired by Flickchart to do stuff like that here. Now I got to the bad ones. CHECK MY EVIL 8*D

In all seriousness, forget the Miz/Cena shitty stuff, is there actually a good match those two ever wrestled together?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

lol, I actually posted a movie vs movie on there once. Didn't get a single reply,


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> I was inspired by Flickchart to do stuff like that here. Now I got to the bad ones. CHECK MY EVIL 8*D
> 
> In all seriousness, forget the Miz/Cena shitty stuff, is there actually a good match those two ever wrestled together?


People praise their match on Raw from... uhhhh, Rock's Birthday Edition of Raw. You know, the single WORST Raw show ever?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Careful ROOT, them marks be roaming.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Been here for nearly 11 years, I can handle the current rock marks .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Pitbull and Mya can be bad, but are they by any means any worse than that episode where Hornswoggle was announced as the Anyonymous GM in 2012, and Big Show got DQ in a Tag match for SAVING HIS PARTNER, and AJ proposed Punk to marry (8*D), and Cena did a Star Wars promo or something like that? HELL FUCKING NO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

These 1999 Nitros are better than Rock's birthday Raw.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Well, Pitbull and Mya can be bad, but are they by any means any worse than that episode where Hornswoggle was announced as the Anyonymous GM in 2012, and Big Show got DQ in a Tag match for SAVING HIS PARTNER, and AJ proposed Punk to marry (8*D), and Cena did a Star Wars promo or something like that? HELL FUCKING NO.


You could easily find at least 15 episodes from the second half of 2012 that are far worse than Rock's birthday show.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll go to my grave with the opinion of Rock's birthday Raw being the single worst episode of Raw ever. Unless something worse happens in the future . But for now, it is THE single worst Raw ever. 2012 Raws are ***** classics compared to it. Urgh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cena & Miz had a good match on RAW May 2, 2011. The I Quit Match is a DUD.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

I feel so weird for believing that Cena/Miz was a decent **1/2 match . Seeing Cena destroyed like that was pretty entertainig, for me at least


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah that Miz/Cena is really fucking fun. Miz/Cena is a pretty good example of why I like TV matches more than PPV. Cut that ''we try to make it big!'' shit out and let it happen naturally.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Meng vs Arn Anderson on this episode of Nitro.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Randy Orton vs Cody Rhodes (Street Fight-SD 11/4/11) 

I never knew these two had a feud outside the minor legacy break-up, I was never into Cody as a delusional masked man, his style of wrestling and looks have always screamed great baby face to me (and as proven by his current run with Goldust). You can almost look at this match in a brother vs brother vein because of the similarities in appearance between Orton and Cody, their legs, their legs are so long (I hope I haven't turned you off). 

Anyways, to the actual match, it starts off well with Cody being the aggressor and Orton just trying to hold down and control him to already bring fourth the inevitable rest segment (Oh Randy, :side. Though, he's appearing very lively, selling every hit frantically and touching on details (Stanching Cody's cult members). Cody's offense on the outside is very ugly and aggressive, fitting his persona greatly. Crowd is really hot, reacting hugely to every bump (even the overdone steel steps face smash), Orton throws Cody into the audience section and I fear an Attitude-esqiue brawl will ensue, PLEASE NO. Thankfully it ends quite quickly and back to the ring we go. Orton suddenly has an adrenaline rush, dodging every hopeful offense (even his cult members) by Cody and because of this, Orton gets this "I GOT YOU" stuck up expression on his face which suits the situation perfectly. I have to give credit where its due, Orton always has two things checked when it comes to the ring, move execution and facial expressions, he excels thoroughly in both aspects. Back to it, some lack of selling on Cody's part off the suplex on the steel, it's like the suplex knocked him out cold and he was a sand bag for a second or two. Orton is disregarding his character role by doing some evil shit (reveling in Cody's pain and adding insult to injury by showboating), but I guess that can be excused due to the Viper gimmick carrying on from the oiled up, freak he played in 2009. Match gets stiffer as time goes by, Cody's period of control is hard hitting, nothing ever seems to loosen up. (question though, was the feud personal enough to warrantt action of such severity?) 

Orton's control segment was great but Cody definitely usurps it with his relentlessness, not to discount the former at all, as his selling is part of what puts it above the first half of the match. To my delight, I get this Benoit vs Orton *suicide dive chair shot* vibe when Cody clocks Orton with his mask whilst in the figure four, great scene. I wasn't feeling the sudden shift of dominance in Orton's favor, it wasn't very natural and completely no sold the credibility of the mask shot. The match was surely winning me back with the punch exchange on the outside, but then it ends point-blank with an RKO, no shenanigans. Was this the feud ender match? If that's the case, it's suitable for a rightful "who's the better man" answer but otherwise, a sudden ending would have been my preference as it leaves you with something to think about. The whole match seemed like it was in the "end it now" category, assuming that my prior point doesn't hold much truth now. The match was fantastic either way (to a lesser degree in one way), I actually discovered this off of C2D's list of Orton matches (gonna have rep you later mate) and disagree with him on his ranking of it, definitely a top 20 match imo. So I guess that puts in the ****1/4 range, I predict lots of disagreements as I don't think there's much high advocators of this match, but I'll be the first one.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Just watched Rey/Orton/Angle from WM 22. ****1/2 for that botch by Mysterio on the post. **1/4 for the match


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I enjoyed that street fight a good bit as well but I went *** 3/4 on it. Too one sided to go much higher. I have thr same problem with many Randy Orton gimmick matches. He usually doesn't take a lot of punishment.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Go watch Eddies ladder match with RVD on Raw in 2002 to cleanse your pallet. I've never been a fan of that Jericho/Michaels match, Shawn is just SO freaking bad in it, all the stiff shots can't do anything to save it.


Boooo. Eddie vs RVD is mediocre. '02 ladder matches can only mean ONE THING: Undertaker vs Jeff Hardy. 

Random other junk to harp on:

Orton & gimmick matches. Well, face Viper Orton in general = piece of garbage. Worst guy around by miles during that time. Pitiful. Bless Mark Henry & Big Show for what they did w/him on the special occasions.

Cena vs Miz on Rock's Birthday RAW is real good. Those two on PPV though. Yikes. Every single time. Don't try and make them have chemistry. Let it flow & you'll get something fun.

Rock vs Hogan I = :mark: Rock vs Hogan II & both Cena vs Rock matches are pure garbage.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Prepare to get completely shat all over for calling Eddie/RVD Ladder mediocre Cody. Like Cal did when he shat all over One Night Stand 2005. 8*D

For another topic - best non-21 MITB match from WrestleMania? Personally, I'd bet on 24.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

What is the date of that really good Raven and Saturn vs. Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko match? Sure it's on a '99 Nitro.

EDIT: I seem to be thinking of Spring Stampede lol.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

ATF said:


> Prepare to get completely shat all over for calling Eddie/RVD Ladder mediocre Cody.



Outside of Eddy trying his hardest to polish a turd, it isn't really too far from what HayleySabin described it as. Surprised he didn't call it worse, considering I would have - and Hayley sugarcoats things less than I do.

At this point, I'm struggling to think of a big name wrestler who is more of the epitome of a spot-monkey than RVD. Every single match is layered as if he has a mental checklist of signatures and spots in mind and HAS TO get them in each and every time, because that apparently makes a match good. It's almost as if he realises he is in x-position and immediately has to hit the appropriate move with no regard for context or match narrative before that.

Eddie tries to work RVD's leg, with the hopes of cutting down the fast offence and even using it to make his own comebacks if RVD is in control, only to have that shrugged off completely COS MONKEYFLIPS LOLZ. Eddie hits multiple high-impact moves, with the hopes of keeping RVD down and building decent FIP/comeback moments only for RVD to fuck that up. RVD is a very boring wrestler, outside of those crowd-engaging yet vacuous spots, and cannot emote as a FIP at all. There's a point where Eddy takes RVD off the top of the ladder, around where the fan interferes, and blatantly starts talking into his ear - with what I assume is words on how to salvage this match. Not that they ever do, the finishing run just goes to pot.

On a plus point, I can appreciate them working a standard beatdown, without reverting to using the ladders. It's not only refreshing but rather smart, considering how often a wrestler tries to go for the belt too early only to come up short. Wrestling logic isn't too logical, at times. Especially considering the fan that involved himself probably faced judicial punishment while Benoit, who was in the arena purely because he bought a ticket, remained employed in the company, anyway.


----------



## Chismo (Nov 7, 2009)

8*D


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Wow. Just, wow.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Van-DAMN at that vid. :Jordan


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

RVD vs Kurt Angle from TNA should be fun, if it ever happened :usangle

I'm sure it must have :usangle


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Screw that, 2010-current day Rob Van Dam vs. Teddy Hart. Now THAT's a match! :bahgawd

Anyways, I personally thought the Eddie/RVD Ladder match to be pretty good. Obviously I'm aware of RVD's faults (well, he IS RVD, a match of his without mindless spots is surreal), but Eddie did a great job of beating him up. It's no Taker/Hardy, of course, but what the hell, it is still good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Im still a fan of RVD/Guerrero. Im also a big fan of Benoit/RVD from Summerslam too.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

ATF said:


> Screw that, 2010-current day Rob Van Dam vs. Teddy Hart. Now THAT's a match! :bahgawd
> 
> Anyways, I personally thought the Eddie/RVD Ladder match to be pretty good. Obviously I'm aware of RVD's faults (well, he IS RVD, a match of his without mindless spots is surreal), but Eddie did a great job of beating him up. It's no Taker/Hardy, of course, but what the hell, it is still good.




Does Teddy Hart do a moonsault off a cage though? :usangle

On that note, recommendations for some bad matches please. So bad it's good kinda matches.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

RAVEN said:


> Does Teddy Hart do a moonsault off a cage though? :usangle


He has, multiple times, after losing a RoH cage/scramble match. Not only did he no-sell like a buffoon, but he didn't tell any of the wrestlers he was going to do all those moves putting them all in danger. Guy is the biggest clown still working in wrestling.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> Does Teddy Hart do a moonsault off a cage though? :usangle
> 
> On that note, recommendations for some bad matches please. So bad it's good kinda matches.


HHH vs HBK 3 Stages Of Hell match.

So so-bad-yet-so-good it makes The Godfather look like Transformers 4 :lol

Or HHH vs Steiner RR. Though that has a better argument for being just straight crap rather than the so crap it's actually good. That said:


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Rah said:


> He has, multiple times, after losing a RoH cage/scramble match. Not only did he no-sell like a buffoon, but he didn't tell any of the wrestlers he was going to do all those moves putting them all in danger. Guy is the biggest clown still working in wrestling.


I think I have read about this somewhere. Was this the thing that led to the fight with Punk?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> On that note, recommendations for some bad matches please. So bad it's good kinda matches.


There's a Jeff Hardy vs. Kurt Angle match that went on for like 30 minutes in TNA worth looking into. I have no clue what event it was on, but I think it was supposed to be 2/3 falls, and then turned into something unexplainable.

Shane Douglas vs. Pitbull #2

Rick Rude vs. Masahiro Chono Halloween Havoc 1992.

Hulk Hogan vs. Vader (all of them)

Hulk Hogan vs. Ultimate Warrior Halloween Havoc 1998

The entire Uncensored 1995 event.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, Hogan/Warrior II is the CENTRAL MASTERPIECE for the so bad it's good category as well. Like, if there ever was a match that deserves both ***** and -*****, it's that. HORACE HOGAN BIATCHES :lmao

And let's not even begin to talk about those Hardy/Angle matches from TNA. I believe No Surrender 2010 is the one that went around 30 minutes. Was the 30 minutes one the one where the match starts with A FUCKING POWERBOMB? If so, then yeah. Hardy/Sting from Victory Road is also a good mention. It goes on for 1 minute, but what a whopper. JEFF HARDY ON COKE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rah said:


> Outside of Eddy trying his hardest to polish a turd, it isn't really too far from what HayleySabin described it as. Surprised he didn't call it worse, considering I would have - and Hayley sugarcoats things less than I do.
> 
> At this point, I'm struggling to think of a big name wrestler who is more of the epitome of a spot-monkey than RVD. Every single match is layered as if he has a mental checklist of signatures and spots in mind and HAS TO get them in each and every time, because that apparently makes a match good. It's almost as if he realises he is in x-position and immediately has to hit the appropriate move with no regard for context or match narrative before that.
> 
> ...



I'm not a RVD fan, I mean I don't hate the guy like most in here seem to, but I always enjoyed RVD's matches with Eddie, Orton, Benoit, and the hardcore match with Taker. Actually, I think that's the sum total of all the RVD matches I like in the WWE hahaha, but yea I thought the Ladder match was GREAT, Backlash was great, and Judgement Day was really good. Eddie seemed to be able to get ahold of Rob and make him work a more sensible style, although Rob's inability to sell properly just have frustrated Eddie to no end. Eddie does commentary for that Ladder match with Rob on his DVD, and Rob mentions in passing that Eddie fractured a few of his ribs when he did that Hilo off the ladder....yet Rob STILL didn't freaking sell those ribs for the rest of the match :lmao. How can you top that?

I'd still put the Taker/Jeff Ladder match above it though, now THAT was a work of art. One of my favorite stories to watch play out in the ring.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

On topic of bad yet entertaining matches:






Rayo's selling is something else.



RAVEN said:


> I think I have read about this somewhere. Was this the thing that led to the fight with Punk?


Punk did write a livejournal/blog post on the incident, and I know he thinks very lowly of him because of the incident. Not sure if was that exact reason, though.


EDIT: it was LiveJournal (thanks funnyfaces!)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm not a RVD fan, I mean I don't hate the guy like most in here seem to, but I always enjoyed RVD's matches with Eddie, Orton, Benoit, and the hardcore match with Taker. Actually, I think that's the sum total of all the RVD matches I like in the WWE hahaha, but yea I thought the Ladder match was GREAT, Backlash was great, and Judgement Day was really good. Eddie seemed to be able to get ahold of Rob and make him work a more sensible style, although Rob's inability to sell properly just have frustrated Eddie to no end. Eddie does commentary for that Ladder match with Rob on his DVD, and Rob mentions in passing that Eddie fractured a few of his ribs when he did that Hilo off the ladder....yet Rob STILL didn't freaking sell those ribs for the rest of the match :lmao. How can you top that?
> 
> I'd still put the Taker/Jeff Ladder match above it though, now THAT was a work of art. One of my favorite stories to watch play out in the ring.


What about Eddie/RVD from INSURREXTION, Chris? 8*D


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Rob mentions in passing that Eddie fractured a few of his ribs when he did that Hilo off the ladder....yet Rob STILL didn't freaking sell those ribs for the rest of the match :lmao. How can you top that?



RVD :lmao

Perhaps that's why Eddy talked to him, then. Just to check if he was okay/to apologise.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Okay, here's a proper situation of so bad it's actually good:










GOTTA LOVE DAT BIG POPPA PUMP. :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was Kevin Sullivan ever any good. I know his match with Benoit is praised, and it is a good match, but fuck I just can't stand him.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I think I've only seen like 5 Kevin Sullivan matches... 2 or 3 of them were against Benoit . Pretty much got zero opinion of him atm lol. He isn't someone I've wanted to check out tbh.

Welp, got all 10 of my videos recorded this morning . Took me an hour, so that's good going I guess. Had to go out this afternoon so didn't get any of the others done I wanted, but oh well, I'll just work on editing these 10 vids instead .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> What about Eddie/RVD from INSURREXTION, Chris? 8*D


Don't like that one at all, if I'm remembering correctly Eddie does a bunch of awesome work to the head/neck area of Rob, only for Rob to completely and unequivocally no sell all of it as soon as he gets back on offense. Rob never sells for shit anyway, but I remember that being a situation that was totally gregarious, to the point it completely ruined the match. Hell though, 3 out of 4 ain't bad, I don't think anyone but Eddie EVER had a 75% success rate when wrestling RVD multiple times.



Rah said:


> RVD :lmao
> 
> Perhaps that's why Eddy talked to him, then. Just to check if he was okay/to apologise.


Yea I think so, I mean there is really no way in hell you can do a Hilo off a ladder and have it look good without hurting your opponent. The laws of gravity are undefeated. There is a spot in the match where Eddie is climbing the ladder and RVD drop kicks the ladder out from under him, when they show it in slow motion you can see that Eddie came less than 2 inches from landing with his kidneys RIGHT on the corner of the ladder. That could have been the end of Eddie, thank god he missed.



The Fab Four said:


> Was Kevin Sullivan ever any good. I know his match with Benoit is praised, and it is a good match, but fuck I just can't stand him.


Honestly, outside of the 2 Benoit matches and the tag he had with Cactus vs The Nasties at Slamboree 1994, I can't think of 1 single Sullivan match I can remember enjoying. Dude was totally worthless in the ring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Outside of Eddy trying his hardest to polish a turd, it isn't really too far from what HayleySabin described it as. Surprised he didn't call it worse, considering I would have - and Hayley sugarcoats things less than I do.


Figured I already shat on enough hard in my post to where I'd add some odd place levity. Even though I do actually think the match does suck. Meh.

Never is any reasoning w/a misanthrope.



The Fab Four said:


> What is the date of that really good Raven and Saturn vs. Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko match? Sure it's on a '99 Nitro.
> 
> EDIT: I seem to be thinking of Spring Stampede lol.


GREAT match.



The Fab Four said:


> Was Kevin Sullivan ever any good. I know his match with Benoit is praised, and it is a good match, but fuck I just can't stand him.


In a brawl scenario he could be fun. He's been fairly consistent in the early 90's WCW scene, for example.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Forgot about the Slamboree '94 match he was in, eah another good one there.

Daniel Bryan vs John Cena (Raw 08.06.2012)




* By request.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You sir are one awesome gentleman. Thank you Hitman/Fab Four


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Cena being "exclusive" still to this day is impressive. That match will be the proper jumpstart for me to slam through some more 2012 today.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yep, it's a surprise that Cena/Bryan is a match that is still fresh and they didn't go into overkill mode by giving it away on TV repeatedly. Cena's injury after SummerSlam probably helped as they had to go into a different direction afterwards.

Just found Smackdown on watchwrestling and it's the first time I'm looking forward to it all year.



Spoiler: .



Off to watch Jericho vs Orton :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Cena/Bryan from 2012 was excellence as I expected. I remember watching it back in 2012, and left me wanting a longer, more worn out match between both of them. I would've had to wait a full year before that, but holy shit did it ever deliever. But now onto this. Obviously, it's PLANETS away from the classic at SummerSlam, but this was still phenomenal for what it was. A super hot crowd witnessed and cheered the first major match between these two (and for what I know the second match ever between them, the first being Velocity in '03). Cena was Cena and wanted some momentum for the Triple Threat against Punk and Show, Bryan was in his "No" stage and believed he hanged with the big guys, let them fight it is. Cena had his iffy moments (despite acknowlegding it sometimes, he didn't seem to bother to sell the arm in many instances), but thankfully, he was in the ring with Daniel motherfucking Bryan, and his laziness left hindered... sort of. Bryan's work on the arm, which actually made sense since it worked for the Yes/No Lock, was relentless and well made. The story of the match was really about Bryan hanging with Cena, nothing more, and it worked perfectly as Bryan had a counter to a lot of Cena's moves. Hell, the No Lock counter to the STF near the end was pretty awesome. The whole finishing stretch was awesome - except for the ending. I'm glad they protected Bryan of sorts by not having him fully lock in the No Lock, but an AA and that's it? Really? Left a sour taste in my mouth for what was otherwise a brilliant contest. An extremely overlooked TV MOTYC for 2012. *Very high ***1/2-***3/4 for it.*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just realized the link Jheri gave me for Main Event about a week or whenever ago also has NXT episodes from that time. Which means I did it. I finally will see both Rollins vs McIntyre matches.

No words right now.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What's wrong with losing to his finisher?

Is Hogan vs. Slaughter from WM worth my time?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah; It's good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Flux said:


> What's wrong with losing to his finisher?
> 
> Is Hogan vs. Slaughter from WM worth my time?


I suppose that was regarding my statement about the finish of Cena/Bryan; nothing wrong on hand, sure, AA IS one of the more protected finishers after all. But, the way the match was going, it just grabbed me out of nowhere, kinda like I wasn't ready for that to be the end of the match. Left me wanting more simply.

And yeah, Slaughter/Hogan is pretty decent.

EDIT: Overall thoughts on Judgment Day 2006? 

Smackdown '06 is kick-ass, and this was for me one of its three truly kick-ass shows imo (the others being No Way Out and No Mercy). Londrick/MNM and Benoit/Finlay were both amazing, Rey/JBL was pretty good, and Angle/Henry was decent as well. Taker/Khali was serviceable as a squash too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's a damn good show. Minus out the joke of a KOTR finals & it's all peachy creamy.

'06 was a good year to be a Helms fan. Only drawback was getting injured around WM time so he didn't get the match as he was originally said to.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

What match was he supposed to get?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How's Backlash 2006? I know the ME is great.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Both Backlash and Judgment Day 2006 are excellent.

BL has the triple threat, a pretty fun handicap tag and the Winner Takes All match with Shelton and RVD is very enjoyable. Also think there's a Masters/Carlito match on the card that I recall enjoying.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Kinda off topic but saw this on Facebook. Backstage at Sumo Hall.










What a dream match this would be :banderas


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flux said:


> What match was he supposed to get?


Hell if I remember. But it was going to be a successful Cruiserweight Championship defense that highlighted his dominance well.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> How's Backlash 2006? I know the ME is great.


Another good show. Only bad thing would be the lol finish to Kane vs Big Show. MAY 19TH. Carlito even has a solid match on it. So you know something right happened. b/c gosh, that dude is putrid.



RAVEN said:


> Kinda off topic but saw this on Facebook. Backstage at Sumo Hall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:dance


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yes, that would indeed be one hell of a dream match between Cesaro and... uhhhh... Japanese Wrestler B :side:.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> Kinda off topic but saw this on Facebook. Backstage at Sumo Hall.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:cool2 I wouldn't call Heyman/Kobashi a dream match though. :side:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal knows it isn't Muta or Mutoh.

He's trying his best.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wrestlemania 22's theme song by Shinedown is the shit.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just ended watching Smackdown this week - the international version that is.

I only really watched what I cared about: the Jericho/Orton and Reigns/Rusev matches. Jericho/Orton was given over 10 minutes and it really was what I'd expect of a random elongated match between both of them - very back and forth and fast'ish paced, but not that kinda of back and forth that it's huge move after counter and huge move after counter and huge move, it's that back and forth done well, where it is included in a match with a good flow in it and a good purpose for that to happen. And the ending was as basic as it gets considering Jericho's feud with the Wyatts and Orton needing to go in strong for the PPV, but sometimes basic is just right. It was pretty good overall. I'd give it like ****1/4*.

As far as Reigns/Rusev goes, I watched the promo with them and Lana first hand, and Reigns' promo... kinda sucked. Lana was good as always though. So the match itself... well, Rusev is good. Real good. He pretty much carried this whole thing through, with Reigns only getting in punches, his hot tag sequence at the end, and selling. That's all he did. And I predict that's all he's going to do for the eternity he's in a babyface role, and maybe even beyond. That being said, he didn't really need to do any other thing anyway, because Rusev probably needed to step up and look strong more, and boy did he ever. You would think he'd be nothing more than Vladimir Kozlov #2, however, although he and Lana may be the trillionth foreign heel in wrestling ever battling against 'MURICA (why didn't Tarzan Taborda enter the WWF and do that for Portugal? Or Shanna nowadays for that matter? ), he's much more like Umaga than Kozlov - he's intense, powerful and big but also fast and agile like hell. The intensity he always shows is remarkable to say the least. And, never to put that aside, his moveset is quite awesome. He carried this whole thing and he deserves 80% of the credit for the marginal success of this match. But everybody only cared about one thing only in this match - the ending. Well, prepare to be unimpressingly satisfied, as it EXACTLY what you would've expected. Nonetheless, this was a decent match, mostly thanks to Rusev, and one that now really made me look forward to seeing Swagger/Rusev at Battleground, given how Swagger is a far superior worker than anything Rusev has faced yet. I'd say Reigns/Rusev gets ***3/4*.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

They at least shared a ring - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HHCRdzjZCM


Can nothing be one about the fake extra 3 or 4 pages ITT?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

So guys, who's worse? Eva Marie or Great Khali? I don't think Eva has performed a single move correctly, where Khali can at least do a chop and that head squishy thing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> So guys, who's worse? Eva Marie or Great Khali? I don't think Eva has performed a single move correctly, where Khali can at least do a chop and that head squishy thing.


Khali had a pretty good 2013. Fun match with Cesaro, decent tag matches against The Real Americans where Cesaro swung him around, part of the Mark Henry gauntlet, good squashes against Henry and Ryback, and I believe he was part of a Shield match or two.

Yes, that somehow qualifies as a good year for a wrestler. Still better than Eva Marie, and might actually be better than some other folks out there. Like Rene Dupree. Or the Bashams.

EDIT: I feel really dirty for trying to defend The Great Khali. I need a Regal match that I haven't seen yet to fix me.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Randal/Jericho just aired here. Good flow, really liked the selling of immediate impact of moves and how these two vets painted a story of a struggle. Action was crisp and finish neeeded to accomplish what it did. You can tell Jericho is getting his flow back and this was a better match than Miz's with a much better worker. Good contest considering no story coming in and not much ring psychology. """

Edit: Oneal/Slater team name suggesstions? Heat us later, Tits Real (Titus/Slater combo), Solar eclipse, Jobs R Us, Big n Red Machine. Rock n Roorah OOOrah Orrah I give up.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That random Ryback vs Khali match on RAW last year was good. Remember being super happy nothing turned into something.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ryback/Khali does sound a little intriguing. I remember Ryback having a pretty good match with Big Show as well.

I can't remember the last Khali match I actually watched.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yep, Show vs Ryback was as much fun as I would have hoped. That's capturing Ryback's strength it seems, under the radar gems. Not counting when put up vs someone like CM Punk or Danielson, of course.

I actually have a decent amount of Khali matches I like. Clearly the guy isn't good, but when confined to the right type of match, I enjoy big guy go smash & struggle to walk. I don't argue w/fun.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think Ryback had more good matches in 2013 than Carlito did in his entire career.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I just watched the Angle/Lesnar Ironman from SD in 2003. Still such an unbelievable match, these two athletes just went full bore for a fucking hour, Steamboat and Flair couldn't have gone at it any harder for that length of time. Honestly, after the first 45 minutes I was seriously considering giving this match the full 5 stars, as it's just that good. Ultimately I decided I couldn't, as there weren't any of those goosebump inducing moments and the last 10 minutes or so fall a bit flat. Still, this match rules on so many levels, Brock is as good a heel as I've seen here, his stalling in the beginning is as entertaining as watching him wrestle. It's almost mind boggling to watch Brock move around the ring, someone his size isn't supposed to be able to bump around like a Cruiserweight, but he does. Someone his size also shouldn't be as coordinated and quick as he is, but again, Brock just ain't human. Angle was very very good for the most part, outside of a few silly things he did, I can't find a single reason to complain. This match really is just a pro wrestling clinic, the selling is all great, the pacing is phenomenal, and these two grapplers managed to keep the fans fully immersed in what they were doing for the entire 60 minutes.

Final rating: *****1/2+* (this is about as good as a 4 1/2 star match can be without getting a higher rating)

I wish they would do another Ironman match, once Bryan comes back I'd love to see him do one with Cena or Rollins. Or hell maybe Cesaro. When done right, Ironman matches are fucking sweet, more exciting than a standard 60 minute match because of the multiple falls.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That Cena vs Ryback match from Smackdown late last year. _(i'm really lazy w/dates atm)_ AWESOME. Again, not on PPV & not w/a gimmick behind it and look what happens.

Actually I think the Cena, Show, & good Khali match happened all in close range w/each other. Turned on some good stuff there in the final days before teaming w/Axel.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ryback also had a fun five minute No DQ match with Punk around that same time too that was better than their two PPV matches in 2013. 

But this. This squash takes the cake. :lmao at Ryback when he pins this jobber. "I HATE BULLIES!"


----------



## musclehead (Feb 12, 2005)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just watched the Angle/Lesnar Ironman from SD in 2003. Still such an unbelievable match, these two athletes just went full bore for a fucking hour, Steamboat and Flair couldn't have gone at it any harder for that length of time. Honestly, after the first 45 minutes I was seriously considering giving this match the full 5 stars, as it's just that good. Ultimately I decided I couldn't, as there weren't any of those goosebump inducing moments and the last 10 minutes or so fall a bit flat. Still, this match rules on so many levels, Brock is as good a heel as I've seen here, his stalling in the beginning is as entertaining as watching him wrestle. It's almost mind boggling to watch Brock move around the ring, someone his size isn't supposed to be able to bump around like a Cruiserweight, but he does. Someone his size also shouldn't be as coordinated and quick as he is, but again, Brock just ain't human. Angle was very very good for the most part, outside of a few silly things he did, I can't find a single reason to complain. This match really is just a pro wrestling clinic, the selling is all great, the pacing is phenomenal, and these two grapplers managed to keep the fans fully immersed in what they were doing for the entire 60 minutes.
> 
> Final rating: *****1/2+* (this is about as good as a 4 1/2 star match can be without getting a higher rating)


I also have this at ****1/2. Love iron man matches and in case you didn't know, Angle's sister died the night before so for him to go out and deliver that kind match was incredible.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> So guys, who's worse? Eva Marie or Great Khali? I don't think Eva has performed a single move correctly, where Khali can at least do a chop and that head squishy thing.


Khali once had a good match with Batista. This makes him far and away a better wrestler than Eva.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Randy Orton vs Christian from the week after Extreme Rules, 2011.

Damn, that was an amazing feud.

The Summerslam match was something.....beyond words.

Would rate the entire feud at a ****1/2 minimum. I think I'm gonna watch the entire thing again in one sitting. Did that the first time I watched it in August/September 2011 :mark:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

It been made official. Dean Ambrose vs. Seth Rollins at Battleground. :mark:


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Why are they giving away Ambrose/Rollins and Jericho/Wyatt on Battleground?

Match will still be good but ya know....


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

RAVEN said:


> Why are they giving away Ambrose/Rollins and Jericho/Wyatt on Battleground?
> 
> Match will still be good but ya know....


All PPVs are same value now


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm sure they have bigger plans for Summerslam and I'd be shocked if we got any sort of a clean finish for Dean/Seth. Possible double DQ or countout seems fitting.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dean/Seth needs to go all the way to Hell in a Cell. Heck, I wouldn't mind it going all the way to TLC. Everything about this feud so far has been spot on, and there is a lot of mileage left in the feud.

Ric Flair vs. Tom Zenk. If anybody is in the mood to watch something but doesn't exactly know what, go watch this.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

I havent kept close with Puuro post Misawa, but I keep hearing KENTA lost a few steps. Guy was real good and quick and aggressive, so there are a slew of matches heel or face I wanna see. Bryan, Harper, finally that Zayn match, Neville, CESARO, Sheamus (boy that would be physical), Orton, Regal, Ambrose, Rollins,Henry, Steen, heck Im not high on Ziggler as a worker but I think theyd have good chemistry and Dolph sells impact real well. If KENTA is still very good and they establish his skillset/dont saddle him too bad, he could have a real good in ring run. WWE sent out that up the physicality memo, well here you go. 

On a side note never remembered masked Kane/Vader going at it so I sat through NWO 98 and boy what an awful ppv. I mean, the main event was fun but to get an idea of how bad this was, serious MOTN was probably the War of Attrition NOD vs Shamrock/8 ball/skull/ahmed Johnson/someone else that slips my mind and that matchas expected wasnt good. Even Pantera vs Taka was quite sloppy with bad pacing snd Kane/Vader was very cheesy and not nearly as aggressive as expected. The only positives of this ppv were seeing Sunny, a fun main event and some funny lines from Lawler.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Oh I definitely see Dean/Seth lasting a few months. Just feel the first meeting should've been saved somehow till Summerslam. But anyway, a Rollins dirty win seems possible though I'd prefer a double KO or something.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Rollins/Ambrose could easily have a DQ finish at Battleground, someone goes over at Summerslam, they do separate things at NOC (or they do something together), then blow it off inside Hell in a Cell. Them just having one encounter would be disappointing for me. The level of personal hatred between the two would work at HIAC, and would be something we haven't had in a HIAC match feud in a while.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'll tell you what, I'm ALL IN on them doing a long, protracted, drawn out, old school type blood feud between Ambrose an Rollins. There is so much hatred there, if they don't end up carrying the feud all the way to HiaC I will consider it a massive failure from WWE Creative. They don't even really need to do all that much, just let them have the promo time they need to get their real emotions out. I think Battleground should be a double DQ or count out with them brawling all the way to the back. I hope they keep the match short and sweet, don't have them blow their load in a 20+ minute match the first time out, something like a 8-10 minute FIGHT is all the feud needs to start things nicely. Then I'd do a No DQ/Street Fight type match at SS with Rollins winning due to interference. I'd love if they did a rehash of their FCW classic by having a 30 minute Ironman at NoC with Rollins barely winning at the last second, then have the blowoff at HiaC with Ambrose getting his big win. That shouldn't be THAT hard to do, right?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Yeah sounds good. Just stay off all the "Ambrose getting buried" threads from people though he clearly isn't :lol

HIAC as a feud ender is awesome. I mean that is the original purpose of the HIAC match anyway- lately it's just become something you just do coz it's there. We haven't had a real grudge HIAC match in some time. Ambrose/Rollins inside the cell could be awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

RAVEN said:


> Yeah sounds good. Just stay off all the "Ambrose getting buried" threads from people though he clearly isn't :lol
> 
> HIAC as a feud ender is awesome. I mean that is the original purpose of the HIAC match anyway- lately it's just become something you just do coz it's there. We haven't had a real grudge HIAC match in some time. Ambrose/Rollins inside the cell could be awesome.


It's because of Cena booking that people think a baby face can't lose more than 1 match in a row without being "buried". Having Ambrose lose to Rollins in shady fashion then having Rollins steal one on him doesn't make Ambrose look weak. It makes him look human, and if anything all it will do is rally support for him to finally topple Seth once they get to HiaC. That's how you get guys over as a face, show that they are human and relatable. I've always appreciated Cena for his in ring ability, but what has kept me from ever being a fan of his is that I find absolutely nothing about him relatable. I don't always win in my life. I don't always overcome the odds, although I wish I did. And I certainly don't wear jorts and sweatbands . Thats why EVERYONE was able to get behind Bryan like they did, because we could all relate to his struggle and felt that connection with him where, if Bryan won, WE ALL WON. Ambrose has a chance to be HUGE as a face, he's got a character everyone can get behind and god damn is he amazing at all the subtle things in the ring that fans end up noticing and loving. He's different than everyone else on the roster, and that's why he will be a success.

I think Rollins key to success as a heel will be for him to turn up the volume on the cheating and nasty heel tactics, and cut out some of the high risk dives and stuff we all love to see. He's always going to be fighting up hill to stay a heel, because he's just so much fun to watch wrestle and if you've ever seen an interview with him, he comes across as a really likable cat. So he needs to start doing all the dirty tricks in the book to really keep the fans booing him, and definitely cheat every time he sees an opening. I really hope he can succeed as a heel, he's so talented, and man if he gets a great heel run for a year or two, his face turn could be HUGE.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> It's because of Cena booking that people think a baby face can't lose more than 1 match in a row without being "buried". Having Ambrose lose to Rollins in shady fashion then having Rollins steal one on him doesn't make Ambrose look weak. It makes him look human, and if anything all it will do is rally support for him to finally topple Seth once they get to HiaC. That's how you get guys over as a face, show that they are human and relatable. I've always appreciated Cena for his in ring ability, but what has kept me from ever being a fan of his is that I find absolutely nothing about him relatable. I don't always win in my life. I don't always overcome the odds, although I wish I did. And I certainly don't wear jorts and sweatbands . Thats why EVERYONE was able to get behind Bryan like they did, because we could all relate to his struggle and felt that connection with him where, if Bryan won, WE ALL WON. Ambrose has a chance to be HUGE as a face, he's got a character everyone can get behind and god damn is he amazing at all the subtle things in the ring that fans end up noticing and loving. He's different than everyone else on the roster, and that's why he will be a success.
> 
> I think Rollins key to success as a heel will be for him to turn up the volume on the cheating and nasty heel tactics, and cut out some of the high risk dives and stuff we all love to see. He's always going to be fighting up hill to stay a heel, because he's just so much fun to watch wrestle and if you've ever seen an interview with him, he comes across as a really likable cat. So he needs to start doing all the dirty tricks in the book to really keep the fans booing him, and definitely cheat every time he sees an opening. I really hope he can succeed as a heel, he's so talented, and man if he gets a great heel run for a year or two, his face turn could be HUGE.


I dont know if Ambrose has a character we can invest in per say, but the man is talented and shows plenty of personality, so I think the respect is there. I could be wrong I mean maybe it is his trait of determination that gets his cheers, but I think it is almost purely respect for the performer. Alot of his fanfare is his premium ability to sell impact, which coupled with looks makes him sympathetic to females, but honestly I think he is heating up cause people are realizing how good a package he presents. hell if you look at his character its more heel suited. Ambrose ability gets the job done though much like if one analyzes the crux of the Orton/HHH 09 feud, Orton had babyface motivations, yet his abilities to seem so cold and remorseless made the heel casting work. None of this is relavant but just food for thought.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I dont know if Ambrose has a character we can invest in per say, but the man is talented and shows plenty of personality, so I think the respect is there. I could be wrong I mean maybe it is his trait of determination that gets his cheers, but I think it is almost purely respect for the performer. Alot of his fanfare is his premium ability to sell impact, which coupled with looks makes him sympathetic to females, but honestly I think he is heating up cause people are realizing how good a package he presents. hell if you look at his character its more heel suited. Ambrose ability gets the job done though much like if one analyzes the crux of the Orton/HHH 09 feud, Orton had babyface motivations, yet his abilities to seem so cold and remorseless made the heel casting work. None of this is relavant but just food for thought.



I definitely think Ambrose has a character we can invest in. To be honest, I see a lot of similarities between his current baby face character and Steve Austin's "face" character right after he turned at WM 13. Both guys didn't particularly give a shit about pleasing anyone but themselves, both guys wouldn't take any shit from anyone, both would rather throw a healthy dose of knuckle sandwiches rather than get on the mat and have a wrestling match, both show single minded determination in righting any perceived slights or wrongs they believed were done to them, and both have traits that most would identify as heelish but come across as like able or admirable for whatever reason. Ambrose is just a badass ball of insanity and mayhem, he doesn't cheat, and he will fight anyone at anytime anywhere. That's admirable. People are really starting to get behind him and I think the skies the limit for him.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying Dean is the next Steve Austin. That's patently ridiculous, there will only ever be one Stone Cold. I'm just saying with this recent run as a singles baby face, I see certain similarities between his character Steve's. Dean has a lot of Funkisms in his ring work, a little Pillman in his promo, and a little Austin in his character, but he's completely his own and isn't a rehash of any previous wrestler.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ambrose is the most profound & electric character in WWE today. Of course there is something to be invested in.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

They just upped the Best of Raw and SD 2013 on Netflix, is there anything to check out besides the obvious ( ADR/Show Sd, Punk/Cena ) ?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Did it put anything w/Danielson or The Shield on it? b/c for a great year of matches that set royally sucked iirc. Ultra fail.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> They just upped the Best of Raw and SD 2013 on Netflix, is there anything to check out besides the obvious ( ADR/Show Sd, Punk/Cena ) ?


Reigns and Rollins vs. Rhodes Bros No DQ tag title match from October. One of the best tv matches of the year.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea the DVD is a DUD but I'm dumbfounded/dying laughing on how they missed so much from Bryan+ Shield. It was harder to find a bad match from the both of them and WWE somehow did. They have the WOAT Bryan/Orton, and some meh + Punk/Rhodes Bros. vs. shield tags. The Shield really only have that Oct. Tag w/ Rhodes Bros and thats it, everything else is meh. They even got the bad Swagger/ADR match instead of the two good SD ones fpalm

Disc 1 is solid, but the other two are MEHcity outside of two matches (Y)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Undertaker tag vs Shield made it though. Well thank lady gaga for that.

I can understand the bad Del Rio vs Swagger match to a degree b/c it was on it just for the Dolph cash in, right? Still sucks so many great matches were left off for some that are crap or forgettable & way too many segments.

Kofi & Santino return matches? Seriously?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Rhodes vs. Shield rules. Super fun. Orton/Bryan No DQ rules. RVD/Orton matches are great. Jericho/Axel is good. BoD-No vs. Shield is the second best match on the DVD. Bryan/Rhodes Brothers vs. Shield is good, but I think they picked the weaker one. Shield/Rhodes Bros No DQ is king. Cena/Rhodes Bros vs. Real Americans/Sandow is awesome. Punk/Bryan vs. Shield is one of the best handicap matches the company ever had. Of course Punk/Ryback needs to be reveled.

Despite all that though, they really did screw up heavily with this set. But it does show you clear evidence that 2013 might be the best in-ring year this company had. To completely screw up a DVD like this and STILL have a lot of good matches says something.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I didnt see the Taker/Hell No tag on there until now, although I remember not being blown away by it have to re watch. The smackdown 6 man and Rhodes Bros/Shield tag were the 2 I was talking about

IIRC There is a very good Bryan/Rhodes Bros. vs Shield tag from Smackdown on there, so many good smackdown matches omitted and I have no clue what this companies fear w/ praising Cesaro/Kofi Main event. Didnt even make the Best of Main event DVD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That best of Main Event DVD set was bunk too. This is the constant.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

They should just make a best of Sheamus on Main Event DVD and it would be better than most of those documentaries with accompanying match sets.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

*Super Duper Best of Raw/SD 2013 Ratings:*

CM Punk vs. Ryback - Raw 1/7/2013 ***
Big Show vs. Alberto Del Rio - SmackDown! 1/11/2013 ***1/4
John Cena vs. CM Punk - Raw 2/25/2013 ****1/2
Hellacious Destruction vs. The Shield - Raw 4/22/2013 ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan - Raw 6/24/2013 ***3/4
Randy Orton vs. Rob Van Dam - SmackDown! 8/9/2013 ***
Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Goldust & Cody Rhodes - Raw 10/14/2013 ****
John Cena, Goldust, & Cody Rhodes vs. Real Americans & Damien Sandow - SmackDown! 11/1/2013 ***3/4

BLU RAY EXTRAS
Dolph Ziggler vs. John Cena - Raw 1/14/2013 ***1/4
Wade Barrett vs. The Miz vs. Chris Jericho - Raw 3/18/2013 ***1/4
The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston - Raw 5/20/2013 ****
Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian - SmackDown! 8/9/2013 ****

Numerous must-see segments too involving Mark Henry, The Rock, and Paul Heyman of course.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Of course when you get a nice lookin matchlist of Blu Ray extras on a set, it's just a UK exclusive. Ridiculous. Shield vs. Hell No & Kofi was my 2nd favorite TV match all year! 

They wasted space putting that random 6-man on there with Bryan & Rhodes Bros vs. Shield. It was already an extra on the Battleground dvd, plus the match goes like 6 minutes.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Hell No & Kofi vs Shield as a Blu'-Ray Extra. Lunacy.

lol at that horrible Cena vs Dolph match making it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

why did Swagger/Del Rio from February make it?

surprised they didn't put a HHH match on it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Could have atleast put ADR/Christian on the actual DVD


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Americans shouldn't care due to Network access. How do you guys think I was able to find all the good Raw/SD/PPV shit for my Road to WM30 project?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

As I re watch ADR/Show, I'm beginning to dislike this gimmick match quite a bit, do others feel the same way ? Like no matter how much pain you conflict or rather how less, on an opponent, the other wrestler has to do the whole "slow to get up, gets up around 7 count" act.IE ,match just started and Show gets alittle offense in on ADR and he is already starting the "slow to get up thing"/ Every time one takes a bump its a slow process and its just starting to feel so forced. IDK if its just me or its just thoughts going through my mind late at night.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> As I re watch ADR/Show, I'm beginning to dislike this gimmick match quite a bit, do others feel the same way ? Like no matter how pain you conflict or rather how less, on an opponent, the other wrestler has to do the whole "slow to get up, gets up around 7 count" act.IE ,match just started and Show gets alittle offense in on ADR and he is already starting the "slow to get up thing"/ Every time one takes a bump its a slow process and its just starting to feel so forced. IDK if its just me or its just thoughts going through my mind late at night.


I excused it in that match because if anybody can kill someone with minimal moves, it's Big Show, but in principle, I agree with you. That sort of selling should be done gradually and proportionally. Don't start spamming nine counts and acting like you died that early into the match because when you start doing it in the finishing stretch, it won't feel as special.

Finished watching Christian/ADR from 8/9/13 and it ruled. But there's a Barrett/Bryan match from that same show that is super fun. RVD/Orton was also a blast. Only flaw from that episode was a Kingston/Fandango match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Don't like Big Show vs Del Rio, so that's a drop in the bucket for me when it comes to poor Last Man Standing matches done by WWE. The gimmick tends to bring out the worst in folk. It's rarely done right.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I took it off before I could get a feel for it because of that pet peeve, use to like it a lot . But yea LMS are pretty crappy


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Brock vs Angle Wrestlemania is very underwhelming, it's not that's bad at all, it's less than stelar though and not because of the infamous botch. The pacing and unnecessary moments is really what bring it down. At least the rest of the card was consistent. 

Mysterio/Hardy (***1/4)
Benoit & Rihno/Eddie & Chavo/WGTT (**)
Taker/Train & Show (***1/2)
Trish/Victoria/Jazz (**) 
Jericho/Michaels (***3/4)
Vince/Hogan (****)
Booker/Hunter (***1/2)
Austin/Rock (****3/4)
Angle/Lesnar (**1/2)

On that note, can I get your personal ratings for WM19?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

HHH/Michaels is the only LMS I can think of that I don't like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

My favorite WM, but yeah, that match isn't even good. It's quite mediocre.

On SD atm & Orton vs Jericho was haha. Absolutely nothing to speak of. Those two almost make it impossible to care these days.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

As stated in my review of one of the Show vs. Del Rio LMS matches, not a fan of the gimmick as it generally creates opportunities for laying around.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah1993 said:


> HHH/Michaels is the only LMS I can think of that I don't like.


you like Cena vs Wyatt & Cena vs Ryback?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Never saw Cena/Wyatt. Cena/Ryback I guess I didn't care for, but I don't remember disliking it, either.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nutty.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Edge takes the cake for weak LMS matches. There's also Orton/HHH on some random PPV that was horrid. And Kane/Jericho. And Angle/JBL. And Kane/Shane.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

HHH Vs HBK. There's another really fucking awful LMS match . There's been a ton of bad ones.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Looks like Henry turned heel on the latest house show. Probably a permanent thing.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Oh thank God.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yey, heel Henry. Now he'll be stuck feuding with the likes of Kofi Kingston and Big E and some other nobodies before he likely gets injured again .

Sorry, hard to get excited over this. They'll never really push him again because he's injury prone, but all the non big main eventers are useless fucks and is a waste of Henry's talent .


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I wish Henry would get more of a role with up and coming guys that were actually good. 

Mark inducting some NXT rookies into the hall of pain before squaring off against Zayn would be class. But Zayn gets Barrett on house shows while Henry has been thrown in inconsequential matches with floundering midcarders. I do know he had a few live event matches with Cesaro, which should be amazing, but none made fan cam.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

DoubtGin said:


> Looks like Henry turned heel on the latest house show. Probably a permanent thing.


At the MSG show? I'm not finding any mention of it other than Henry tossing Cena back into the ring because he was a lumberjack.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Funny how Cena has had some of the weakest LMS to date, but yet and still has a great part in the BEST probably, Ah Wrestling


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> At the MSG show? I'm not finding any mention of it other than Henry tossing Cena back into the ring because he was a lumberjack.


I read he threw him into the ring post. The one who reported that might be wrong, of course.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Finally watched Wrestlemania XXX from start to finish. I'll post some thoughts after I watch Germany demolish Messi and win the world cup in an hour :mark:. Dat streak match though? FUCK EVERYTHING. And I thought I was over it. :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Discussion in this forum has been so dead lately. Someone needs to come into the Lucha thread and talk about El Satanico and Villano III with me. 

On topic. Flair was at the MSG show last night in Cena's corner. He apparently busted open Bray Wyatt with forehead punches. :mark:


----------



## Tweener ken (Mar 18, 2014)

NAITCH said:


> Funny how Cena has had some of the weakest LMS to date, but yet and still has a great part in the BEST probably, Ah Wrestling


Cena has atleast had 2 classic LMS matches with umaga/bray.
His LMS match with edge/ryback were good also but don't remember the one he had with batista.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the LMS match with Batista, but not as much as other folks here. I've seen ****1/4-****1/2 ratings consistently here for that match, but I didn't think it was that great. The ending was just horrid and it went against the theme of two heavyweights throwing bombs at each other. I don't want to do any star rating business with the Wyatt match because I thought it was really entertaining, but I also thought it sucked. So I don't know how to "rate" it.

Thoughts on Backlash 2001? Done with WM X7 in this 2001 project. I remember a Rhyno match on the show being awesome, but that's it.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Forgot all about the Batista one, yea that one is phenomenal


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> I wish Henry would get more of a role with up and coming guys that were actually good.
> 
> Mark inducting some NXT rookies into the hall of pain before squaring off against Zayn would be class. But Zayn gets Barrett on house shows while Henry has been thrown in inconsequential matches with floundering midcarders. I do know he had a few live event matches with Cesaro, which should be amazing, but none made fan cam.
> 
> Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


Please. Don't even let me ponder what I know I won't get.

---------------

Randomly found this & not to harp on old, tired internet trends but really:






don't even have to watch the match. just watch the in ring promo before it & see if you can keep a straight face.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Forgot all about the Batista one, yea that one is phenomenal


We also forgot about that very good Cena/Del Rio one at Vengeance. I like that one more than the Batista one. It too had a bad ending, but it was still better than duct tape.

Someone scoop up the video of Scott Steiner walking to the ring with a tiger. LOL at that promo just posted though. "Hooches". That trashy girl 4:42 in. "Missionary man". And then Jericho. That sash that says his name. The "Ralphus is the only genetic freak in WCW" sign. The flex off. Those forearms. Jericho's offense being on point as well as his bumping. Yeah, this is how two egomaniacs should wrestle against each other. But man, the Steiner Recliner is such a garbage finisher.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Thoughts on Backlash 2001? Done with WM X7 in this 2001 project. I remember a Rhyno match on the show being awesome, but that's it.


Great event. Fun 6 man to open the show, super fun hardcore match between Rhyno and Raven, amazing 30 minute ultimate submission match with Angle and Benoit (their absolutely best match together) and an awesome tag team main event that nobody on the planet seems to like as much as me but fuck them they all suck. Oh and a fun LMS with Shane and Big Show too. Jericho/Regal is solid but probably a bit of a disappointment if you are expecting some real greatness from them.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Great event. Fun 6 man to open the show, super fun hardcore match between Rhyno and Raven, amazing 30 minute ultimate submission match with Angle and Benoit (their absolutely best match together) and an awesome tag team main event that nobody on the planet seems to like as much as me but fuck them they all suck. Oh and a fun LMS with Shane and Big Show too. Jericho/Regal is solid but probably a bit of a disappointment if you are expecting some real greatness from them.



I really like Backlash 2001 as well. The main event tag between the BoD vs Two Man Power Trip is SICK (I have it at ****1/4), the Ultimate Submission match is great (I have that at ****). Then there is all the all out FUN of Regal/Jericho Duchess Rules match (Regal makes the single greatest face ever here) and then Show/Shane which isn't all that great but it's fun to watch. 2001 was really just a good all around year for PPV's, with the RR, WM, BL, JD, SS, and SVS all being well above average events. You can't go wrong with that year, unless of course it's Vengeance which had so much potential but was a total let down, atleast for me.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I think 2001 is the only year that has a chance at usurping 2013 for my choice of best in-ring year of the company. The television stuff for the first four months has been ok, but the PPVs are glorious. PPVs may be a once a month thing, but I think that might be the deciding factor between the two years as to which one is better in terms of in-ring product and quality. Then again, 2001 didn't have Luke Harper.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I think 2001 is the only year that has a chance at usurping 2013 for my choice of best in-ring year of the company. The television stuff for the first four months has been ok, but the PPVs are glorious. PPVs may be a once a month thing, but I think that might be the deciding factor between the two years as to which one is better in terms of in-ring product and quality. Then again, 2001 didn't have Luke Harper.


Yeah it had many better wrestlers than him.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

One thing is certain, if Benoit didn't get injured in 2001 then I think it might put 2001 over the top for good as the best in ring year for WWE. I mean he was just ON FIRE that entire year before his neck took him out. Just in the 5 months or so he was active, he had a 5-star match with Jericho that doubles as the greatest ladder match ever, a bad ass match with Angle at WM, another GREAT match with Angle at Backlash, one of if not the greatest 2 on 2 tags in WWE History with Jericho against TMPT, a complete masterpiece with Austin on Smackdown, and another GREAT match with Austin on Raw. I'm sure there are 5-6 more high caliber matches I'm not mentioning, too. Austin was the best wrestler in the world in 2001, of this I have no doubts. But for 5 months there Benoit was hanging with him. Shame it ended like it did.

Even so, 2001 gets the nod from me for best in ring year in WWE History, with 2004 coming right behind it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Wait a minute. Taker/Batista is another LMS I don't like.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

There's been about 30 Last Man Standing matches iirc. Unsure if I even like ten. But it may be up to at least 1/3. 

Favorite has got to be Undertaker vs Big Show. Tremendous.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I might watch and rank them all one day.*




*= this will never happen.


----------



## Tweener ken (Mar 18, 2014)

LMS matches are trick business, you like every one of them as a kid but after you grow up.....they don't come off as good as back in the day.


----------



## Darkness is here (Mar 25, 2014)

The lms match between orton/hhh NM 07 was also very good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I feel dirty for liking Orton/Cena on RAW early this year. What should I do to cleanse this feeling?

Going through these Steve Austin podcasts for the first time ever is like going through Memphis archives for the first time. Glorious.


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

the HHH/Jericho LMS one is my favourite


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Small upload:

Ric Flair & Chris Benoit vs. Scott Hall & Kevin Nash (WCW Tuesday Nitro 07.22.1997)


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Triple H always shines in Last Man Standing matches. The one he had with Flair at Survivor Series 2005 :lenny


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

You ever watch a match thinking it's the first time you watched it and then when the last move is hit you remember that you saw it before? :argh:. I just watched Akiyama vs. Misawa from 2/27/00 and felt that. But god damn, what an awesome match. Go watch it!

****3/4 on the star scale


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

This Chris Benoit pack in XWT is so fucking awesome! Think I'll rewatch the No Mercy 2002 tag match to enjoy a classic since I haven't watched much wrestling at all over the past month.

And just how awesome is 2014? I love this year and we're only about halfway through.

- Benoit is back in WWE programming through the Network
- Punk "retires" with no signs of returning
- Orton main events Wrestlemania
- Real Madrid win Champions League after a long wait
- Germany win the World Cup

This is MY year. :lenny



funnyfaces1 said:


> I feel dirty for liking Orton/Cena on RAW early this year.


You should be proud for finally smartening up.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Speaking of Benoit... he is on my screen atm. Seems to be punching Edge in the face. Awesome.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Not as amazing as 2012 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2014 has been awful:

Punk "retires" with no signs of returning .
Batista came back.
Orton main events Wrestlemania.
Bryan won the WWE WHC only to be stuck in a feud with Kane and then had to give the titles up due to a neck injury.
The Shield broke up.
The Streak ended .
The World Cup happened and everyone was obsessed with it for months.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

^ Only bad thing there is the end of the streak.  (and Bryan's injury... and Shield breaking up)



Flux said:


> Not as amazing as 2012 8*D


Ugh, that's a year I never wanna witness again. Shitting on Punk in this site was my release of frustration for other things irl. :lol


----------



## The Cynical Miracle (Dec 10, 2006)

The few months were Punk and Heyman ran Raw in 2012 was goat.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

2012 was mostly forgettable for me. Punk's heel run was great, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135fxi_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-1-4_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gie_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-2-4_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135gpx_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-3-4_sport
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x135h40_cm-punk-promo-heel-wwe-title-reign-promos-part-4-4_sport

Punk's heel promo's from 2012-2013.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Backlash 2005*

ONE. MORE. MATCH. ONE. MORE. MATCH. ONE. MORE. MATCH.


*Chris Jericho Vs Shelton Benjamin - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

It's the rematch from Taboo Tuesday!!! 

Fun start to this one as they do the whole "2 babyfaces being athletic" shtick. At least... I think Jericho is the babyface. Then it really picks up when Shelton tries to hit a sunset powerbomb from the apron to the floor, only to get countered into a hurricanrana!

From there Jericho definitely goes HEEL~! on us, calling Benjamin a bitch, smashing him onto the exposed barricade and posing the crowd like a douche. Commentators confirm that they ARE both faces here (not in those terms of course, this ain't Russo era Nitro...). But as the veteran, Jericho knows he can't be nice all the time during a match especially with the IC title on the line. He wants the GOLD, not the fans love.

JERICHO WAS CAUGHT IN THE ACT BY SHELTON~! The act was attempting to springboard off the ropes though. Not sex. That we know of. Maybe he did. Not like the commentators would know. Moving on...

Remember when Shelton turned heel? And didn't have his MAMMA with him? His entire gimmick was him wearing sunglasses and an open shirt :lmao.

Very back and forth style match here, usually having Benjamin using his crazy athleticism to gain the advantage while Jericho uses his veteran instincts to counter Benjamin or anger him enough to make a mistake.

STINGER SPLASH~! LOL IT MISSED~! So apparently STING is appearing on WWE TV tonight (when I'm writing this, duh. 14/07/2014 is the date. Or 07/14/2014 if you live in one of those backward places  ).

T-BONE~! Jericho is too near the ropes and easily gets his foot on the bottom rope to break the count despite the fact both his legs were under the ropes the entire time AND Shelton was under the ropes too. Stupid fucking referee.

:mark: awesome counter from Jericho who avoided that spinning kick thingy Shelton does, turning it right into the Walls of Jericho! And this time Shelton grabs the ropes.

Loving Jericho channelling his HEELNESS for the match. All about the GOLD baby. Arguing with the referee on 2 counts, kicking Shelton when he's down (literally), calling Shelton a bitch, and refusing to let go of the Walls even when Shelton gets into the ropes.

Utterly crazy (in a great way) sequence of roll up attempts for the finish with Shelton finally being able to lock a pin on Jericho and getting the win!

Super fun match. Really good. Both guys played their roles really well, especially Jericho taking on the role of a heel so we didn't get a generic baby face vs baby face match. Shelton has far too much athleticism. It's not normal. He should give me some of it.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*The Heart Throbs Vs William Regal & Tajiri Vs Maven & Simon Dean Vs La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey - World Tag Team Championship Tag Team Turmoil Match*

The Heart Throbs :lmao. Forgot they existed. Originally the Heartbreakers but had to change their name because of Shawn Michael's nickname. They obviously didn't want anyone thinking they were associated with HBK .

Regal & Tajiri are the tag champs coming into this match, and in order to retain their belts they must last the entire match! I genuinely don't remember who wins this so I'm hoping for the champs to retain so we get REGAL AND TAJIRI the entire match.

TAJIRI KICKS~! God we need those the entire match. One of the HT's break up a pin and Tajiri fucking chases him down and kicks him repeatedly until his partner saves him :lmao.

Did the Heart Throbs and THE DICKS ever have a match? Were they even around at the same time? 

YES. Tajiri pins one of the HT's.

I need to lose some weight. Fuck DDP Yoga, I need to get myself on the SIMON SYSTEM!

Poor Tajiri is fucked, but finally gets the hot tag to Regal who MAULS Dean and Maven. KNEE TREMBLER~!

The French dudes waste no time double teaming Regal (NOT LIKE THAT YOU PERVES) to try and finish him off (NOT LIKE THAT YOU PERVES) before Tajiri can recover from his double team earlier (NOT LIKE THAT YOU PERVES).

Tajiri doesn't stay down for long, and those KICKS make an appearance sooner than I was expecting so YEY .

Not it's time for REGAL to be the FIP so Tajiri can fully recover on the apron. It doesn't last too long because Regal is a fucking BOSS and beats the shit out of anyone he gets near.

THOSE DAMN FRENCHIES STEAL A WIN! Regal is pinned with his trunks half way up his arse! This means we are guaranteed NEW tag champs. And also means no more Regal and Tajiri .

OUCH. Fucking OUCH. Hurricane takes a bump over the turnbuckle but his leg catches on the post and fuck me, that HAD to have hurt.

WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM BY ROSEY~! Not just the French that are stealing shit in this match!

Double team move and we have NEW tag team champions... THE HURRICANE AND ROSEY!

Match is fun, but because of the format of the Turmoil match, none of the matches really get enough time to develop into anything that good. None of the pairings were bad, just none stick out.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*Chris Benoit Vs Edge - Last Man Standing Match*

A sign in the crowd saying "Benoit going over the Edge". Kinda has a different meaning today...

Benoit is out to HURT Edge and wastes no time with fancy wrestling, instead he takes Edge down and punches him in the fucking face. I wish I could punch Edge in the face. God he was so fucking annoying, useless and stale from like half way through 06 up until he retired.

They end up brawling in the crowd at one point and I have no idea what they are doing because all the camera shows is a bunch of fans screaming and waving the moment the camera gets near to them .

SHARPSHOOTER BY BENOIT~! EARL HEBNER IS THE REFEREE~! EDGE TAPS OUTS~! I JUST REMEMBERED THIS IS A LAST MAN STANDING MATCH~! DAMN~! LOL~!

SUICIDE DIVE INTO A TRASH CAN LID~! Not quite as impactful as the Steel Chair version, but the sound was AWESOME.

SUPERPLEX ONTO A TRASH CAN~! Benoit is convulsing.

Plenty of HATE~! from both men, which is exactly what was needed. I actually really liked Edge during this time. He was a pretty great heel and was a pretty good brawler in his own right too. Shame things went downhill for him basically when he lost the WWE Title after 2 weeks.

GERMAN SUPLEX OF THE FUCKING LADDER. I actually don't seem to recall that happening before. Or since, actually. Damn, the normal German Benoit hits right afterwards actually looked BETTER :mark:.

Missed Diving Headbutt is actually a little difficult to watch as you see him roll around in pain and you know what he'd end up doing in 07.

CROSSFACE~! Edge is tapping out AGAIN but it don't matter. Benoit keeps it locked in until Edge passes out.

Edge manages to get up, and Benoit goes back on the attack but gets caught with a DDT on the MITB briefcase! Benoit gets up! SPEAR! Benoit gets up AGAIN! Edge cannot believe it! SPEAR! Holy shit Benoit is STILL getting up!

Benoit is refusing to give up here, and Edge has to resort to using a fucking BRICK that he was carrying in the briefcase! Benoit is done.

Really good LMS match that I think tends to get forgotten by a lot of people these days, which is a shame because it's better than like 70% of the matches people remember. They beat the absolute shit out of each other and don't have to resort to a million big spots through tables and off the stage etc. The big spots here involve suplexes and a BRICK. And they are better than the shite we tend to get these days.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


Lita backstage talking to Kane, saying how she almost wants Viscera to win tonight so Trish has to have sex with him :lmao.

Lawler brings out a bunch of the diva sluts to promote the new diva magazine. :lmao he almost doesn't recognise Victoria :lmao. Chris Masters interrupts. 

Time for a $3000 Master Lock Challenge! He picks a women. With muscles. Masters takes the piss and claims she could easily be a man. Which is true. She does kinda look like a man. She doesn't break the Master Lock. Shocking.

Viscera has a slutty red dress for Trish to wear when he fucks her after he beats Kane .


*Kane Vs Viscera*

:lmao no.

:lmao kidding. I'm totally watching this :mark:.

FAP FAP LITA AND FAP FAP TRISH are at ringside.

Viscera returning to WWE at this time was awesome for me as a fan. Always liked him, even if, you know, he's never really had many great matches . Just one of those guys that I loved as a kid because he was so HUGE and larger than life, and it carried over to me as an adult. NOSTALGIA and all that shizniz.

BIG BEEFIE BASTARDS HITTING EACH OTHER. That about sums this match up . BUT they also show off their athleticism too. Kane with a clothesline off the ropes to the FLOOR, and Viscera with that wheel kick. Always amazes me when I see him do that. How the FUCK does someone THAT BIG do that? I probably couldn't do that.

Viscera shoves Lita down, even though she's injured and got a crutch! You bastard! I hate you! Ha, Kane smashes his face into the ring post a few times. TAKE THAT!

CRUTCH TO A STEEL CHAIR SENDING IT RIGHT INTO TRISH'S FACE!!!

Viscera brings Lita into the ring and tries to tongue her. He gets a big boot for his trouble. LOL.

CHOKESLAM TO VISCERA~! Kane wins, and poor Viscera doesn't get to fuck Trish.

Super fun big man battle. Genuinely good match.

Trish gets in Viscera's face (not in the way he wanted), so he gives her a BEAR HUG and rag dolls her around. Then he follows it up with a BIG SPLASH. Aaaaand Trish is dead. Viscera just turned face too I think .

WORLD'S LARGEST LOVE MACHINE on his way!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Shawn Michaels & Hulk Hogan Vs Muhammad Hassan & Daivari*

ONE. MORE. MATCH. ONE. MORE. MATCH. The words I can honestly say have never come out of my mouth when it comes to Hogan. Unless it's "I hope to fucking jebus we never get one more match from Hogan".

Hogan and Shawn start off strong, even hitting a double big boot on Hussan. 

Hogan grabs a Hulk Hogan hat from a fan in the front row and puts it on Daivari, then punches him in the face. Ummm... does that mean Hogan hates his fans and wanted to punch the dude in the face? .

HUSSAN HITS SHAWN WITH A PIPE~!

Hussan and Daivari work over Shawn and... its dull because they both suck. Best thing about the match at this point is Hogan working the apron and constantly trying to come into the ring to save HBK.

:lmao Shawn, with his bad back history, who got hit in the back with a pipe during this match, and had two guys work over his back... just lifted Hussan on his shoulders out of the Camel Clutch and hit an electric chair.

Well, Hogan out does Shawn by getting hit with the pipe in the back and then Hulking up right after :lmao.

SUPER KICK~! Hogan pins Daivari. Shawn hit the super kick btw, not Hogan .

This was... a match. With 4 guys in it. And a pin at the end.

It sucked . Hogan's apron work was seriously the best part. 

Then this happens:










*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Christian :mark:. He doesn't have a match tonight though . Maybe he wrestled on Heat. Which sucks because he's PPV quality. At least he gets to come out for PROMO TIME. He's going to RAP :lmao.

ON RAW, YOU'VE GOT BATISTA, WITH MUSCLES TO SPARE.

BUT HE'S GOT CHARISMA, LIKE TOMKO'S GOT HAIR.

YOU'VE GOT TRIPLE H & RIC FLAIR, THEIR LEGEND STILL GROWS.

26 TITLES BETWEEN THEM, AND THE WORLD'S BIGGEST NOSE.

HAVE YOU HEARD THE ONE ABOUT JBL? YOU KNOW THE RICH GUY ON SMACKDOWN.

I HEARD HIS TAXES ARE STILL SOARING, BUT HE'S NO WRESTLING GOD, HE'S THE GOD OF BORING.

Yeah I'm bored of writing that out now .


*Batista Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship match*

So this match is all about the PEDIGREE. HHH claims Batista FEARS it, and knows that if HHH hits it in the match, his title reign is OVER.

A slight distraction from Flair on the outside, and HHH runs right at Batista to start this thing off! 2 Pedigree attempts and Batista escapes with fear in his eyes and HHH just smiles. Then Batista fires back by attempting a Batista Bomb and HHH is the one to back away in fear! Nice little story for this match and so far they are executing it well .

HHH keeps trying to land the Pedigree, but on a 3rd attempt Batista just POWERS HHH up and over the ropes to the floor, so HHH needs to change up his game plan. SPINEBUSTER INTO THE BARRICADE~! SUPLEX ON THE FLOOR~! And now HHH begins to take the power away from the WHC and work on the back! Smart stuff!

The back work already pays off early as Batista catches a small break and attempts the Batista Bomb again, but he simply cannot lift The Game up!

HHH is doing nothing fancy here. Elbows to the back. Smashing his shoulder into the back. Strong Irish Whip into the corner. Simple stuff, but it all looks great and Batista is actually selling the back really fucking well too. More often than not it's the simple shit that makes matches good, and so far this is proof of that.

Dammit. Batista starts to build momentum, and as he does, he basically fucking ignores the back work. His entire selling of it involves him holding his back for a second after throwing HHH into the ring steps. Fucks sake Batista, this match was going so well until you FUCKED IT UP.

Now Batista is making it worse by doing things like a fucking powerslam. SELL. THE. BACK. YOU. FUCK.

Batista easily picks HHH up for the Batista Bomb (because you know, it's easier to do now after his back has been destroyed the entire match...), but HHH had the WHC in his hands and smashes it right in the face of the champ!!!

Pedigree attempt and oh look Batista POWERS OUT OF IT. Because his injured back makes him stronger...

REF BUMP~!

PEDIGREE~!

HHH HAS THE MATCH WON BUT THE REFEREE IS DEAD~!

Flair throws the referee back in but he's still dead :lmao. You'd think that for such an important match they'd have backup referees ready to come out just in case. Instead we get another referee showing up 2 minutes later still putting his referee shirt on because he wasn't prepared .

SPINEBUSTER~! Batista is still able to hit these big power moves because NO SELLING~!

LOW BLOW TO THE REFEREE :lmao. HHH obviously thinks he's about to lose. And he is.

LOW BLOW TO BATISTA~!

Batista steals Undertaker's Last Ride spot by hitting the Batista Bomb out of the corner, and this is over. Batista retains.

*sigh* this was on its way to being fucking GREAT. And then Batista decided that selling is for losers and killed it. Shame.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11*​


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I've only seen the HIAC between HHH/Batista. I'll have to watch the Mania match, plus both HHH/Cena matches too, which I've also never seen.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2014 is Germany. 2012 is Brazil. And 2014 is still only at half time. 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Backlash 2005 is a fun show. Not as good as 2004, 2006 or even 2007 - but it's an enjoyable show for the majority of it. It's more in line with 2003 in that it is solid throughout with nothing that is great and nothing that really stands out as DUD material (Rock/Goldberg is good you fucks!).



Starbuck said:


> 2014 is Germany. 2012 is Brazil. And 2014 is still only at half time. 8*D


Comparing Brazil (specially from Tuesday) to 2012 is just about perfect. :

2014 will also live with me forever because it's the year where I changed my life for the better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MOTN for me at Backlash '05 will always be Kane vs Viscera. Benoit vs Edge is awesome & does come close, tbf. But the fatties match is just the perfect collision. Shame the last two matches are garbage or else the entire show would be quite consistent. That's two PPVs in '05 where Kane had my favorite match on it. Awesome.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wrestlemania 21 being the other?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What was the other one? Vengeance?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Vengeance vs Edge, indeed.

WM could be arguable but Undertaker vs Orton lingers about.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Don't like Batista/Hunter Cell? Angle/Michaels is good in your book that I know, but curious where the former stands.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Angle vs Michels is one of the worst matches I've ever seen. The WM DUDfest is lesser of the two evils, to put the severity over.

HIAC is fine. Certainly not great, but effective enough. Lacks so much hate tho. Which is the a problem I had. The PPV as a whole isn't good.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I could've sworn I read some posts of you praising the Angle/Michaels Ven match, must be my mind playing tricks. Carry on, and I agree with you on Batista/Hunter cell to a lesser extent, not amazing, merely good though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> I could've sworn I read some posts of you praising the Angle/Michaels Ven match, must be my mind playing tricks. Carry on, and I agree with you on Batista/Hunter cell to a lesser extent, not amazing, merely good though.


Must've been a year or two ago and I remember it too. As far as I can tell, he went through a bunch of hailed PPV matches again over the past year and started hating 99% of them. Don't understand what happened here but such is opinions.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:lmao


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Cody hated Angle/Michaels even way before I did. Cal likes them, you're probably thinking of him.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Yeah1993 said:


> Cody hated Angle/Michaels even way before I did. Cal likes them, you're probably thinking of him.


WM match, yes. But I do recall him being more favorable towards the Vengeance rematch. It was back in 2012 I think when we always discussed those matches as I was watching the weeklies of 2003-07.

But some time last year, him & his brother rewatched Vengeance 2005 and first his brother (Tyler, right?) and then him started shitting on it beyond just the finish. And before anyone gets this confused, not a problem for me if others have a different opinions. It was just an observation I made.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

That's b/c the match SUCKS.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

No conspiracies beyond a rewatch. Doing so after a long time can reveal one to the light.

b/c lordy. Yikes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol, there seems to be no middle ground with HBK/Angle matches. It either sucks monkey balls or is a great classic for most.

But somehow, I do fall in the "middle ground" category as I think both WM and Vengeance are pretty good but neither are matches that I would go out of my way to watch. WM is highly overrated, though. MITB & Orton/Taker >>>>>>>>>


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Paul Heyman just OFFICIALLY planted the seeds of a Lesnar return. :mark: PLAN C


----------



## DoubtGin (Nov 24, 2013)

Jericho vs Harper on this week's Smackdown


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Anything notable happen on Raw tonight?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything notable happen on Raw tonight?


The Authority sent Ambrose to the hospital after a beatdown, Heyman mentioned PLAN C to Hunter & Steph, Flair returned and praised Cena, and things imploded between Orton & Kane. Oh and Miz beat Sheamus.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> Anything notable happen on Raw tonight?


Nice energetic Rusev/Lana/Swag/Zeb segment, the setup for a certain conquerer to return and on the negative I'm no Doctor but it sure seemed like Rollins at least blew out his knee if not an ACL tear. Complete with ref throwing up the X sign and a clearly improvised finish. Other than that just skippable crap. Well Bo was funny.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

WrestlingOracle said:


> Nice energetic Rusev/Lana/Swag/Zeb segment, the setup for a certain conquerer to return and on the negative I'm no Doctor but it sure seemed like Rollins at least blew out his knee if not an ACL tear. Complete with ref throwing up the X sign and a clearly improvised finish. Other than that just skippable crap. Well Bo was funny.


No fucking way. If Rollins actually is hurt and it's serious I'm done watching for a while. I'm barely watching any of the product as it is and one of the few things holding my interest was the Rollins/Ambrose program.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Saint Dick said:


> No fucking way. If Rollins actually is hurt and it's serious I'm done watching for a while. I'm barely watching any of the product as it is and one of the few things holding my interest was the Rollins/Ambrose program.


Its worth noting Dean was kayfabe hospitalized to open RAW so it couldve been a creative odds evener but you could physically see Rollins knee buckle/give and then take further damage and the finish was clear improv. Not to mention I dont have faith in creative to be that clever and again ref threw the x up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Didn't watch RAW, but I heard that Miz beat Sheamus cleanly. Please tell me this glorious event occurred.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

That is in no way glorious, YOU SICK SON OF A BITCH.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If Rollins really did get injured then everyone in this company should wish to never get pushed. It is the only way to avoid a serious injury during your hot momentum period.

also, it's ultra garbage & I hate everything again.

lolMiz. Guess Trips decided to throw the guy a bone after being a good sport for being buried to immense levels. School boy pins never die.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Waiting for a Cesaro pec tear and for Zayn to get fed up getting developed and hanging up the boots.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ended up watching last week's SmackDown, or the parts of it I cared enough about to watch anyway. That show did absolutely nothing to make me think I should be watching this product. Bo Dallas was seriously the best thing on it. I can't say Orton/Jericho disappointed me because that was pretty much what I expected from them. They just went through the motions and hit some signature moves at the end of a fairly lengthy match to give off the impression that they did something good but most of it was mediocre at best. Orton's control work was a whole bunch of nothing and Jericho's comebacks didn't amount to much either. Reigns/Rusev was okay I guess but I wanted to see more of them clobbering each other. Enjoyed Rusev's matches with Big E considerably more. The Battleground card looks good so I'm still looking forward to that but at this point my interest in watching anything other than the PPVs is extremely low.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Saint Dick said:


> The Battleground card looks good so I'm still looking forward to that but at this point my interest in watching anything other than the PPVs is extremely low.


I'm in the same boat.
Since MITB I've only been following the Ambrose/Rollins feud, I'll watch Battleground but I don't see myself watching the shows again no matter what takes place on the ppv.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Well if Rollins is injures and misses time, fuck everything. Will only watch the Lesnar segments in that case. 


I liked the beatdown on Ambrose. Best part of an otherwise dull show imo. Would hate seeing the Ambrose/Rollins feud get dissolved due to an injury. Hope Rollins just tweaked his knee or something.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

That would suck for Rollins. Lots of momentum and a possible WWE title. Gutted that we might not get Ambrose/Rollins at BG but if there's a silverlining it's that if Rollins is good to go by SummerSlam the feud can still progress and we can throw a stipulation on it. Hopefully a ladder match for the briefcase.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was it the 2005 Rumble where Vince blew his quads in the ring and all the wrestlers stood watching lol?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Was it the 2005 Rumble where Vince blew his quads in the ring and all the wrestlers stood watching lol?


By all the wrestlers, you mean just Batista and Cena? 

Referees and maybe a couple of agents were there too. But yeah, it was the 05 RR.

Speaking of 05... might watch another show today for a ramble, to break up the editing I'm doing which is gonna take much longer than I anticipated. Nothing is ever bloody simple... .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh just the two lol, could have sworn it was more.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Didn't watch RAW, but I heard that Miz beat Sheamus cleanly. Please tell me this glorious event occurred.


Oh it's true... it's true. :agree:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Judgment Day 2005*

Here stands the sinful man, to face his judgment day...


*MNM Vs Hardcore Holly & Charlie Hass - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Melina needs to return to do nothing but her entrance every night.

Hass & Holly. What a team. :lmao

Crazy arm drag near the start of this match that was SUPPOSED to send Nitro through the ropes, but he got all caught up instead and ruined what could have potentially been an awesome spot .

Mercury makes a mistake of CHOPPING Hardcore Holly. Oh boy. Holly turns him around and chops the absolute shit out of him :mark:. Nitro tries to help out and runs right into a chop too and gets knocked off the apron!

Holly and Hass seem to have this one in hand, with Holly setting Mercury up for the Alabama Slam... but gets caught with a superkick behind the referee's back!

Time for MNM to take control, something I'm a fan of. Really enjoyed MNM's run back in the day, they were probably the best team WWE had after the E&C/Hardys/Dudleys era and before THE SHIELD came along.

Bah, MNM barely get any time to work over Holly before he makes the hot tag. Hass comes in on FIRE, and even launches himself over the ropes onto both Nitro and Mercury! Melina gets involved to no avail, but Holly ends up running shoulder first into the ring post leaving Hass alone for a Snap Shot.

Fine match. Just didn't get the time it needed to really be a good match.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*The Big Show Vs Carlito*

:lmao Carlito poisoned Big Show with an Apple :lmao. He never has much luck. Poison Apple. Bad Burrito. Shot with a tranquiliser gun...

Matt Morgan is the bodyguard for Carlito. He looks pretty weird with jet black hair and beard . Oh he also has a stutter because... 

Show dominates early on, then Morgan interferes and Carlito gets about 20 seconds of offence in before Show just starts throwing him away with one hand which is pretty fun to watch. Big Show is basically telling Carlito to fuck off because he's nothing .

REF BUMP~!

F-5 FROM MATT MORGAN~!

Carlito wins.

Well this was... a match.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Paul London Vs Chavo Guerrero - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Chavo is pretty aggressive early on. London tries to take him down and Chavo just kicks the shit out of him. Guess he's letting out all that built up frustration that he's had bottled up for years from being a disappointment to the Guerrero family... .

London has bad ribs going into this match or something (not taped up though), but they aren't bothering him much early on... until he goes for a 450 splash and lands right on the knees of Chavo! Fuck, normally with shit like that you can clearly see how they've protected themselves... but not here. Looked like London actually landed ribs first onto Chavo's knees. OUCH.

So... London is retarded. Chavo is working his bad ribs, then the moment he gets a chance to make a comeback... he does a flip off the ropes to the floor. And BARELY even touches Chavo, instead landing back first HARD on the mat. So Chavo sucks for not protecting him, and London sucks for doing that kind of move in this match. And then basically not fucking selling it straight after. Bah.

450 Splash about a minute later and London retains. Damn. Never thought a match with Chavo would have a problem OTHER THAN Chavo being in the match.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Booker T is looking for Angle. Turns out Angle is off to rape Sharmell. She's saved by the... music, in this case, as Angle's music starts playing for his match :lmao. WHO THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?


*Kurt Angle Vs Booker T*

Oh god, this feud :lmao. Angle goes from feuding with HBK at WM to... wanting to rape Sharmell :lmao.

Kurt Angle likes gutter sluts :lmao.

He wants perverted bestiality sex with Sharmell :lmao.










Oh, not watching this match btw. Fuck that .

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Orlando Jordan Vs Heidenreich - WWE United States Championship Match*

:lmao

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio*

Fuck. Yes. :mark:

THIS is the match I wanted to see on this show. Already watched their awful, awful WM match, and their average ladder match from SS. Now it's time to watch the real good stuff from their feud. JD, followed by the GAB match. Hell I might even stick on their SD match in between too for the hell of it. Possibly even their cage match too.

Eddie slowly turning into a heel was just tremendous. Nobody, NOBODY was better than Eddie Guerrero in 2005 around this time. NO. BODY.

Great to see a match with Eddie and Mysterio start off as a FIGHT rather than them doing fancy shit. Mysterio was taken out with a brainbuster on the steel steps and is returning tonight to take revenge, and Eddie, well, has gone insane over the last few weeks. Both guys want to DESTROY the other. Just cool to know that these guys can put on the most perfect wrestling/high flying match like at Halloween Havoc 1997 and then have a match like this where they want to kill on another.

The back, ribs and neck of Rey are still hurt from that Brainbuster on the steps a few weeks ago, so Eddie makes sure to focus on everything. Smashing Rey back first onto the announce table, hitting that beautiful back suplex than only Eddie can do so perfectly, applying a headlock, and of course the classic abdominal stretch!

Eddie is out to prove on thing and one thing only; he's BETTER than Rey Mysterio. After his loss to Rey at WM, Eddie slowly began to lose it, and slowly but surely he turned heel as he decided he needs to do anything and everything to BEAT Rey, no matter the cost to their friendship.

Rey gets a bunch of little comeback attempts as you would expect, but unlike usual, he isn't flying around, instead he's just trying to punch the fuck out of Eddie. This is PERSONAL, and an arm drag ain't personal enough!

:mark: Eddie begins to drag Rey outside to the steel steps to hit another Brainbuster, and Rey's attempts to get away are just incredible. He KNOWS what Eddie wants to do to him, and he desperately tries to escape until Eddie grabs the back of his mask and pummels him. Beautiful lol. Rey manages to save himself by shoving Eddie into the ring post, then uses the ring post for a unique 619!!!

BIG BOOT FROM MYSTERIO~! The whole set up to it was awesome too. Now it's time for a Mysterio comeback :mark:. He uses a mix of quick high flying moves to ground Eddie, then follows up with PUNCHES TO THE FACE :mark:.

TOP ROPE SUPERPLEX~! Rey's back and ribs may not recover from that!

Eddie makes the cover... but Rey kicks out! Eddie gets angry and continues to cover Rey who continues to kick out!

Cool to see Eddie calm himself down so he doesn't lose focus and potentially cost himself the match. He goes for 3 Amigos, but ends up caught up in the ropes, perfect position for the 619! Rey is too hurt to follow up though.

For some reason Chavo shows up to distract the referee, allowing Eddie to bring a chair in. It backfires on Eddie though, and he still ends up taking a 619!!!

West Coast Pop coming up... and Rey flies right into a CHAIR SHOT TO THE FACE. Eddie has lost it, and gets DQ'd as a result. This is FAR from over!!!

Eddie continues to beat the fuck out of Rey with a chair after the match. FINALY appearance to help Rey to the back :mark:.

God, this is spectacular. The HATE~! The way Eddie does whatever he can to beat Rey, only to realise that on this night he CAN'T do it, so he smashes Rey's face in with a chair instead. He can't BEAT Mysterio, but he can sure as hell BEAT HIM UP. And this will soften Mysterio up for the next time they wrestle!

*Rating: ****1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 6*


*John Cena Vs JBL - WWE Championship I Quit Match*

JBL is carrying the ORIGINAL WWE Championship belt to the ring, because Cena has that god awful pile of shite spinner belt that lasted WAY too long. Now he have another shitty belt design brought to us by The Rock. Just bring back the WWE/Undisputed title back please. It looked awesome.

What. The. Fuck. Cena comes out on... a big truck thingy with speakers and some loser DJ making Cena's theme sound even worse. Then he walks on JBL's limo and breaks the bullhorns off. VANDAL~!

MOVE ON THE FLOOR~! No idea what it was exactly until they show us a replay because the camera was not in position. Tazz thinks it was a DDT, despite the fact Cena is up BEFORE JBL who hit the move :lmao. Turns out it was a neckbreaker.

"SAY I QUIT OR YOUR ASS IS MINE!". Cena better say it tbh, because we've all heard the stories of JBL in the shower with guys :side:.

:lmao right after that JBL steals the belt off the time keeper.

CHOKING CENA USING THE BELT AND RING POST~! But of course Super Cena is able to be choked out for a while then fight right out of it .

Close call on that back body drop from one table through the other. One inch the other way and JBL could have SERIOUSLY hurt himself there.

Ahh, the ever classic JBL chair shot while down at the side of an announce table . None will ever compare to the Eddie one, but it's always fun to see. Cena is BUSTED WIDE OPEN too :mark:. The way the blood is makes it seem like his NECK is bleeding instead :lmao.

STEEL STEPS TO THE FACE~! JBL beating people up never gets olds. Sweet jebus, Cena is really trying to emulate Eddie from the year prior with his blade job. His face and body are COVERED in blood. But despite losing that blood AND being choked with a chain, he still fights back...

Cena comeback. F-U. JBL tries to leave. Tazz: "HEY, YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" :lmao.

JBL again hits a neckbreaker on Cena, this time on the hood of the limo. And AGAIN Cena is the first to move around. Fucks sake.

:lmao JBL went head first through a TV :lmao. I'm sorry, but that's fucking HILARIOUS rather than brutal. JBL then gets smashed through a limo window and... that does look more brutal than funny .

SUPLEX ON TOP OF THE LIMO~!

Must be great to be able to smash up a limo whenever you feel like it for TV.

Wow, I'm actually getting bored with them beating each other up. JBL seems to just want to choke Cena constantly. He's done it about 5 times now and it's never worked for him. And then JBL climbs on a speaker right next to a table in a blatant set up to a table spot.

:lmao the finish is fucking hilariously bad :lmao. JBL has been beaten up, head through a TV and a car window... but Cena walks over to him with a metal pipe and JBL quits. And then Cena hits him with it anyway because he's a fucking cunt. Didn't he do something similar with Batista too? Batista quit and Cena still gave him an F-U through the stage because he's a fucking piece of shit? Yeah, I'm sure that's what happened. 2010, right?

This has some good stuff here and there, but overall feels like a forced brawl. Eddie/Rey had a better brawl right before it and didn't resort to blood or weapons outside of the chair shot that ENDED the match.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 6.5*​


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Vince blowing his quads is :lmao. He just sits there yelling orders anyway. GOAT.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Only Vince could NO SELL tearing both quads at the same time, then walk to the back. HHH, the giant pussy, tore ONE and ended up in the fetal position :lmao .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

BUT HE FINISHED THE DAMN MATCH (TWICE) SO FUCK YOU 

:HHH


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

:lmao I skimmed through Cal's review just to get to Eddie/Rey, and it looked for a second like you had given Heidenreich/Jordan ****1/4 and I thought Cal had finally, truly, lost his fucking mind. Good to know some semblance of sanity remains with our threads respectable moderator 

I read the rest of your review after the tremendous write up you did for Eddie/Rey and I agree with pretty much everything down the line. JD05' is a total 2 match show, and while I liked those two matches a bit more than you (Eddie/Rey gets ****1/2 from me, JBL/Cena gets ***1/2) it isn't enough for me to consider that event anything other than poor. I couldn't even sit through 2 of the matches.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Ive gotta watch the 2005 Eddie/Rey feud soon, think ive only seen the Summerslam match.  Vince no selling those quads is fucking glorious, and still barking orders.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Ive gotta watch the 2005 Eddie/Rey feud soon, think ive only seen the Summerslam match.  Vince no selling those quads is fucking glorious, and still barking orders.


You haven't seen JD, SD 6/23/05, GAB, OR the SD Cage???? Good heavens Zeppers. If you ever get bored and feel like watching a 5-star masterpiece, Eddie/Rey 6/23/05 is your ticket. It barely edges out Austin/Benoit as my personal favorite TV match of all time. You should wait until you're really in the mood to watch some pro graps though, as all the majesty and excellence is in the small details of Eddies performance. It's one of the 2-3 most masterful heel performances I've ever witnessed, easily on par with what Lesnar did at ER 2012, Austin at SS 01', and some of the other noteworthy heel performances.

If you need a link to any of those matches just shoot me a PM


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah thanks mate, i wanna wait and savour those matches one by one when I have time. Think I have them all, maybe not the Cage match though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JD '05 has got three sweet bouts. And the I Quit isn't any one of the three.

8*D


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Just watched Benoit/Cena from the same episode as Benoit/Lesnar, obviously not up to the level as that match but check it out if you can. Solid stuff and Benoit/Lesnar is even more amazing when you know Benoit has already worked a match that night, what a machine.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> Ive gotta watch the 2005 Eddie/Rey feud soon, think ive only seen the Summerslam match.


Wait what


as of this moment YOU NO LONGER EXIST.



I did not think the Cena/JBL I Quit was good at all. Had one cool moment where Cena was viciously clubbing JBL's back. Most of the rest was like random WWE forced brawl cheese. That TV spot in particular was like ''pfft gimme a fuckin' break''.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's certainly flat & filled w/fluff. Don't "hate it" or anything, but it's just there.

callback to the JBL/Eddie spot from the ear prior is pretty much the only part I enjoy. Unless they wanted to just rip it off w/o any intentions. I'-ll always wonder.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cena/Jbl is meh, there is alittle portion of it I enjoy, but like Cal says its just a "forced Brawl" to me, dont understand all the praise, hell Cena's crimson mask is so unnecessary if you see how he gets it


Have been watching a ton of Taker the past two days, those tags w/ Batista vs. Cena/HBK :wall. Also watched Punk/Sheamus for the first time which was great


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The first half of Cena/JBL was just bad. This K-Kwik match that I am unfortunately watching was more vicious than that first half. Nothing about it felt even remotely like a gimmick match. Then the JBL/Eddie callback spot happened and things got better, but overall, it didn't make my 2005 list. Holly/Haas vs. MNM though. That match was great. And they had two other matches on Smackdown that were also good.

Watched RAW. Even I didn't like it, which says a lot. The highlight of the show was Miz cleanly pinning Sheamus. Then it was Ambrose getting his ass kicked. Oh, actually the Swagger/Rusev stuff was the highlight. But that was it.

HOLY SHIT BIG SHOW JUST JUMPED OFF THE TOP ROPE! NOW LITA, MATT HARDY, AND JEFF HARDY ALL JUMP ON BIG SHOW!


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The spot where JBL is back-body dropped thru the announce table is noteworthy, he lands on the lower edge of his back, makes me cringe. 

Sheamus/Punk is indeed great, as well as Batista/Taker vs Cena/Michaels. You should watch Rated RKO vs Batista/Taker too.


----------



## Leonardo Spanky (May 1, 2014)

Insurrextion 2003

Trish Stratus vs. Jazz (Women's Title Match) :banderas

One of Trish's best matches. She was so fluid and crisp that night and held her own against the more powerful Jazz. Their timing was spot on unlike a lot of divas matches today. That ending sucked though with Teddy Long getting involved and how weakly he threw Trish into the ring post. Jazz should have given Trish her finisher before going for the pin. 

It's great that the women were allowed to open the ppv, even if it was a pretaped UK ppv. Would like to see that happen again. 

x1zuw20


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Cena/Jbl is meh, there is alittle portion of it I enjoy, but like Cal says its just a "forced Brawl" to me, dont understand all the praise, hell Cena's crimson mask is so unnecessary if you see how he gets it
> 
> 
> Have been watching a ton of Taker the past two days, those tags w/ Batista vs. Cena/HBK :wall. *Also watched Punk/Sheamus for the first time which was great*


the one from the first episode of Main Event? Only things I remember about it is the finish and that it was a pretty good match, so I guess I'll have to watch it again at some point as well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

say thanks to WWE.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The only thing missing is a sequel or preferably, a proper program between the two.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea mox, punk/sheamus from the first main event


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> The only thing missing is a sequel or preferably, a proper program between the two.


They had a lumberjack match on RAW as well, but even I, the big Punk fan, didn't like it. Sheamus and Punk didn't look like they cared.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> You should watch Rated RKO vs Batista/Taker too.


This x1000.






Also was a fan of Sheamus/Punk from ME the one time I watched it. Now that we've got closure on Punk's retirement, his fans will hopefully stop being annoying as fuck with endless topics so in the near future, I'll be able to appreciate his work more open minded. Who knows, maybe I go on a Punk binge and relieve his finer matches.  (ff is marking out now)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Their lumberjack match was garbage.

thankfully Sheamus got a mulligan w/the gimmick vs Big Show later in the year.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Eddie Guerrero and Grandmaster Sexay had a feud because Sexay called Eddie a "dawg". And I thought Booker T and Edge feuding over a shampoo commercial was crazy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shampoo commercial also has a better out b/c it was just a way to get two guys who should have been at WM on the card & involved Tajiri in a stereotypical way. Also, it didn't involve Brian Lawler acting like a "G".


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Watched RAW. Even I didn't like it, which says a lot. The highlight of the show was Miz cleanly pinning Sheamus.


???????????????????????????????????


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Punk/Taker from Smackdown 09 is a gem, makes up for the putrid BP match. I liked it a lot, hit up WWE's youtube channel to watch it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> ???????????????????????????????????


Random schoolboy fluke win that Sheamus "got back" by doing the same to Miz tonight on Main Event.

eh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

People have figured out Rollins' injury thing was a work right? They just did it to write him out of the main event so they can focus on the guys in the 4-way. Looked pretty legit though so he did a hell of a job.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

So they write off the only feud that's drawing a crowd reaction, outside of Swagger/Rusev, to focus on something that nobody really gives a fuck about?




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Random schoolboy fluke win that Sheamus "got back" by doing the same to Miz tonight on Main Event.
> 
> eh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> People have figured out Rollins' injury thing was a work right? They just did it to write him out of the main event so they can focus on the guys in the 4-way. Looked pretty legit though so he did a hell of a job.


We're still getting Rollins/Ambrose at Battleground, right?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

^^ Yep. Match hasn't been promoted at all though, even if it was the hottest feud going atm.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> ^^ Yep. Match hasn't been promoted at all though, even if it was the hottest feud going atm.


Yeah, I was going to say I only noticed it listed somewhere on the net, was it even mentioned/advertised on Raw.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

They showed a random graphic of it and Cole said something I believe. Neither competitor spoke of it and they went out of their way to put the spotlight only on the Fatal 4 way participants so they could trade finishers.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Chance we'll see something w/the injury come into play on Sunday giving it the out & lead in for SummerSlam. 




or Rollins could just win clean & that be the end of it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I hope Kane wins on Sunday.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> So they write off the only feud that's drawing a crowd reaction, outside of Swagger/Rusev, to focus on something that nobody really gives a fuck about?


They just used it so he wasn't involved in any of the finishing angle where Orton & Kane imploded and all that.

Did you see I watched those Blue Panther matches (Astro & Mariachi)? 



#ROOT said:


> I hope Kane wins on Sunday.


:lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

KANE


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I hope Kane/Orton main events Summerslam.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Did you see I watched those Blue Panther matches (Astro & Mariachi)?



I did, I was wanting to reply once I found time to slot in that Villano match you watched. Shall get on that tomorrow morning!


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao :lmao Kane/Orton would be utterly terrific, why not though ?

Edit: Also Rah, did you save a link to that wyatt/shield house show from Dallas ?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Has anybody picked up The Great American Bash DVD?

- Vic


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*1996 Year In Review​*


Spoiler: Matches



Smoking Gunns vs. Owen/Yokozuna vs. Sid/Kid vs. Razor/Vega (1/1): ***
Owen Hart vs. Marty Jannetty (1/15): **3/4
Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble): ***
Bret Hart vs. Undertaker (Royal Rumble): ***1/2
Vader vs. Savio Vega (1/22): **3/4
Bret Hart vs. Diesel (1/23): ***
Bret Hart vs. Diesel (1/26): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna (1/29): ***
Yokozuna/Bulldog vs. Michaels/Diesel (2/6): ***
1-2-3 Kid vs. Hakushi (2/6): ***1/4
Undertaker vs. Bret Hart (2/6): ***1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart (In Your House: Rage in the Cage): ***3/4
Goldust vs. Hakushi (3/2): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. 1-2-3 Kid (3/4): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega (3/11): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Leif Cassidy (3/25): **3/4
Vader/Owen/Bulldog vs. Roberts/Johnson/Yokozuna (Wrestlemania): ***
Goldust vs. Roddy Piper (Wrestlemania): ***
Undertaker vs. Diesel (Wrestlemania): ****
Vader vs. Yokozuna (4/8): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. Jerry Lawler (4/8): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. Bart Gunn (4/15): **3/4
Savio Vega vs. Goldust (4/15): ***
Patterson/TAJIRI vs. Godwinns (4/22): TAJIRI
Shawn Michaels vs. 1-2-3 Kid (4/27): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. Diesel (In Your House: Good Friends, Better Enemies): ****1/2
1-2-3 Kid vs. Marc Mero (5/6): **3/4
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (5/9): ***1/2
Vader vs. Duke Droese (5/13): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H (5/13): ***1/2
Savio Vega vs. Steve Austin (In Your House: Beware of Dog): ****
Triple H vs. Marc Mero (In Your House: Beware of Dog): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. Savio Vega (6/17): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. Marc Mero (King of the Ring): ***
Undertaker vs. Mankind (King of the Ring): ****
Shawn Michaels vs. British Bulldog (King of the Ring): ***1/2
Undertaker vs. Steve Austin (6/24): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty (7/1): ***
Steve Austin vs. Marc Mero (In Your House: International Incident): ***
Michaels/Johnson/Sid vs. Owen/Vader/Bulldog (In Your House: International Incident): ****1/4
Steve Austin vs. Undertaker (7/29): **3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Vader (8/2): ***1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. Vader (8/4): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. Owen Hart (8/12): ***
Owen Hart vs. Savio Vega (Summerslam): ***1/4
Mankind vs. Undertaker (Summerslam): ***1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Vader (Summerslam): ****1/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Yokozuna (8/19): GOAT WWE COMMERCIAL
Shawn Michaels vs. Goldust (8/24): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. Goldust (9/6): ***1/4
Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart (9/14): ***3/4
Undertaker vs. Goldust (In Your House: Mind Games): ***
Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind (In Your House: Mind Games): ****3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Bradshaw (9/29): ***
Michaels/Undertaker vs. Mankind/Goldust (9/29): ****
Steve Austin vs. Jake Roberts (9/30): **3/4
Vader/Cornette vs. Michaels/Lothario (9/30): **3/4
Steve Austin vs. Triple H (In Your House: Buried Alive): ***
Undertaker vs. Mankind (In Your House: Buried Alive): ***3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. British Bulldog (10/28): ***
Owen/Bulldog vs. Michaels/Sid (11/11): **3/4
LaFon/Furnas/Godwinns vs. Owen/Bulldog/Cassidy/Jannetty (Survivor Series): ***
Undertaker vs. Mankind (Survivor Series): ***1/2
Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Survivor Series): ****3/4
Sid vs. Shawn Michaels (Survivor Series): ****
Steve Austin vs. Mankind (11/18): ***3/4
Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart (11/25): ***1/4
Undertaker vs. Mankind (12/9): ***1/4
Flash Funk vs. Leif Cassidy (In Your House: It's Time): ***1/2
Vader vs. Steve Austin (12/16): ***1/2



*Most Valuable Wrestler of the Year: Shawn Michaels*

What else can you say? As everybody knows, this was Shawn's iconic year. Starting from a second consecutive Royal Rumble victory to winning his first world title over the face of the company at Wrestlemania to holding on to the damn thing for nearly the rest of the year, it's clear as to who 1996 was synonymous with. All the main event feuds centered around Michaels, even when they didn't involve the title. And when it came to the in-ring action, it's very hard to find a better man in there than Shawn. Quite simply put, Shawn carried 1996.

*Workhorse of the Year: Steve Austin*

Now in actuality, Shawn Michaels probably deserved this too, but I don't like giving both of these distinctions to one man, especially when there's someone else who deserves more recognition for their work in 1996. That man being Steve Austin. Now this was prior to Austin's unfortunate neck injury, so we got a more mobile Austin that wrestled differently from his brawler style. Austin was masterful in the way that he employed underhanded tactics most often seen by your territory heels. Austin was also very fluid on the mat and his moveset was more expansive. But most impressive was how he could get a good match out of anybody in any situation. Whether it was a Caribbean strap match or a squash against Bart Gunn or the rather awful circumstance of having to work with Marc Mero, Austin always found a way to net positives out of what most people could only get negatives out of.

*Match of the Year: Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin (Survivor Series 1996)*

This was really a two-match race as we all know, but those two matches (other one being Michaels/Mankind) happen to be among the best matches this company has given us. What edged this one out though was that it had the better ending, but the beginning and middle are both of a very high quality. 

Now as to what I loved about Bret/Austin. After Bret's hiatus in 1996 until he left the next year, Bret reinvented himself into a hybrid of a brawler and a technician. Austin's existing style at the time was precisely that, so what we had already was a match made in heaven. The beginning portion of the match was a competition consisting of battles over waistlocks, reversals, and chain wrestling. Bret was able to take advantage through his experience and knowledge of holds, while Austin would employ those underhanded tactics as well as the environment around him to counteract. Austin was able to goad Bret into a slugfest, which not only changed the direction of the match, but also put Austin over as a guy that belonged in the main eventer's league while also drawing some sympy on Hart. And that's something that this match did so well; Austin was allowed to counter so many of Bret's moves and unlike what we normally see in non-big man situations, Bret actually works from under. It almost felt like watching an underdog basketball team on the road take a strong lead against the defending champions. Austin dominates the second and third quarter, with a very impressive victory in the sequence that occurred in the outside of the ring (which includes crowd brawling at its best). 

The "fourth quarter" of this match couldn't have opened up in any better fashion. After getting dominated in slugfests, Bret channels in his inner Sangre Chicana lays some fists on Austin in timely fashion. And I mean timely. That crowd erupted when he finally got his vengeance. Sensing danger, Austin starts throwing his best bombs including a Texas freakin' Cloverleaf, but it was all to no avail as Bret kept finding a way out of everything. Austin was smart in using every moment where Bret had some sort of success as fuel for more aggression, but he ultimately fell for the vice of overaggression. Bret, being the veteran that he is, was able to counter Austin's finishing maneuver into a flash pinfall akin to his match against Roddy Piper and with that, Bret was able to pull off the win through his intelligence and ring savviness. Just an excellent match that made Austin look like a star and later on acted as a precursor to their Wrestlemania classic.

*Pay Per View Event of the Year: Survivor Series 1996*

I was actually very impressed by quite a few shows from the year, as my prior presumption was that 1996 was filled with one match shows, with that one match being whatever Shawn Michaels was doing. Survivor Series was not a one or two match show; it was as complete a show as one can get. With a big time feud ender in Undertaker/Mankind, the debut of one Rocky Maivia, the match of the year in Austin/Bret, and one of the most underrated WWE title matches of the respective decade, this show is a strong candidate for also being the best of the Survivor Series franchise. 

1996 in many ways was the ultimate transition year as it was the year where guys like Austin, Triple H, and Foley all made a name for themselves, while the old mainstays of the New Generation Era as well as the Golden Era in Diesel, Razor Ramon, 1-2-3 Kid, Ted Dibiase, Mr. Perfect, and Ultimate Warrior left for greener pastures. There were moments where the program got edgier, but the overall tone was still on the safe side. RAW for the most part was hit or miss. One hour RAWs allow for shows with less filler and a more straightforward style, but it also allows for episodes where absolutely nothing redeemable happens. Outside of the WWE Championship, none of the titles really meant anything and I honestly cannot name a single Intercontinental or Tag Team champion from the year. The upper midcard was rather strong thanks to the Foleys and Goldusts of the world, but the lower card was putrid and filled with the stank left from 1995. The WWE finally looked like they figured out what direction to take by the end of the year, but it took poor gimmicks, phony wrestlers, and a style of television that was too lighthearted in order to get to that point.

Lots of good and lots of bad to match it. 1996 was a solid *5/10*.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Goldust vs Hakushi happened? Well, hell yeah.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That may or may not have been the match where Goldust grabs a mic in the middle of the match and threatens to kiss everybody if they don't stop booing him.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Nice Job, 1996 had alot of nice little gems and props for giving Austin a nod. He had a few really good matches and weekies on that year that good unoticed. I'd gone Michaels/Foley MOTY personally, Michaels was the MAN (still is) we know this :hbk

Really happen you gave Michaels/Lawler 4/8 a mention


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

******* :zayn3


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I just watched Punk/Cena Summerslam 2011 for the first time in so long, and the match like its predecessors and successors is great. I figured the action would've been recycled from their MITB match as it was but to a much lesser extent, kinda surprising due to them pulling out all stocks in that match. As you would expect, the work was crisper, with no botches? or at least none that stood out and affected the match. Has any Punk/Cena focused on one point of interest being the center story of the match, example the leg being the working point or any other limb for that matter, or injury? 

Yeah and **** for the match. Can't go over four stars because there's too much downtime and Triple H trying to be the neutrality of the match irks me.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnfaces1 (Y)(Y)




NAITCH said:


> :lmao :lmao Kane/Orton would be utterly terrific, why not though ?
> 
> Edit: Also Rah, did you save a link to that wyatt/shield house show from Dallas ?







The ending is cut off, so either follow up on the Waco show upload, or watch that instead. Outside of Bray missing his cue at the start, the Waco match is spot for spot identical



Spoiler: Waco show


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Tajiri had a match in WWF in '96? Didnt know that.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Wonderful write up Funnyfaces. I should be mad that you had the gall to choose any match but MindGames as the MotY, but if you HAD to pick a different one, that SVS bout is the way to go. In the past year I've probably watched it 2-3 times and I come away appreciating it more every time. I also love the Mankind/Taker match from that same show, it seems to be the forgotten match in their series but it's still pretty great.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I also have 2000 and 2005 done, so expect those in the next couple weeks. Going through 2001 at the moment, and then I guess I'll watch through 2006 or 2008 depending on which one looks more appealing. 2008 at the moment looks a lot better, but Finlay in his best year!

The real forgotten match is their RAW NoDQ match late into the year. And the other match worth mentioning that year was Michaels/Diesel. What a war! One of Michaels' best performances.

Tajiri's match in 1996 was a squash and he only wrestled for ten seconds.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*The Great American Bash 2005*

I'm actually really looking forward to watching this show. For ONE match and one match only, but it's one of my favourite matches so... :mark:.


*MNM Vs Road Warrior Animal & Heidenreich - WWE Tag Team Championship Match*

Thought about skipping this match, but I miss MNM so I'm gonna sit through it anyway.

Who the fuck looked at Animal and Heidenreich and thought "HEY LETS PUT THESE TWO TOGETHER AS A NEW VERSION OF THE ROAD WARRIORS!!"? Probably Johnny Ace, being jelous of his brother's success 8*D.

Animal has dedicated this match to Hawk. So either we're getting new tag champs or Animal is gonna look like a disappointing prick .

Mercury is killing it early on, taking a couple of somewhat basic bumps but milking the fuck out of them, going to the outside, holding his face and having Melina check on him lol.

MNM gain control with their great tag work and a little bit of cheating too . They take out the legs of Heidenreich and use some pretty cool and unique holds on him to work over the leg. Dammit, I think I'm gonna have to do some big MNM project at some point. Once I finish up my 06 project. Undertaker in 2008 project. ECW 2010 project. Probably some other project I've started and forgotten :side:.

Hot tag to Animal who runs through both opponents, until he takes a shot to the face with one of the tag belts!

1...2... KICK OUT! Animal is doing this for Hawk, and he ain't giving up that easy!

DOOMSDAY DEVICE! DOOMSDAY DEVICE! DOOMSDAY DEVICE!

WE'VE GOT NEW TAG TEAM CHAMPIONS!!!

Well this was a solid match. Not that much too it beyond MNM looking great as a team. They just attack Heidenreich's leg for a while before Animal makes a hot tag, and then the match is over about a minute later . Feel good moment I guess with Animal winning the tag belts for Hawk.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Eddie asks for some interview time. He's creepy as FUCK. Awesome :mark:. Love that he's wearing an "Eddie stole my other shirt" shirt. HE STOLE HIS OWN SHIRT. Wait... does it count as stealing if it was yours to begin with? 

Eddie tells us that there is a new stipulation for the match with Rey tonight; Rey's son Dominick gets to be at ringside to watch the match!


*Christian Vs Booker T*

The beginning of the end for Christian in WWE until 2009 . He was red hot on Raw... so they moved him to SD. And did fuck all with him. BECAUSE THAT'S HOW VINCE ROLLS. Prick.

Hell, if I had to wrestle Booker fucking T on PPV I'd leave the company too 8*D.

This match is taken place because Christian attacked Booker T from behind before a match. So what happens here? Booker T attacks Christian from behind on the outside to start the match. Fucking hypocrite!

Booker ends up going shoulder first into the ring post and Christian is in control.

ANACONDA VICE BY CHRISTIAN~!

Nothing special whatsoever here. Booker isn't exactly setting the world on fire with his selling, and Christian is kinda dull controlling the match too. He IS a much better face after all, but still. Boooring here.

Christian for some reason decides to grab Sharmell. Guess he wants some of her like Angle did . He gets slapped for his trouble, and walks right into a Book End!

CHRISTIAN KICKS OUT OF A BOOK END!!! Take THAT, suckaaaa!

From there they at least create some excitement with a cool finishing stretch. Some kickouts etc but never wasting their finishers aside from that Book End, which Christian only kicked out of because Booker was too hurt to cover straight away.

In the end it takes a Scissors Kick from the SECOND ROPE to put Christian away.

Dull first half, great second half. Shame Booker had to win though.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Orlando Jordan Vs Chris Benoit - WWE United states Championship Match*

The thought of watching an OJ match makes me wanna punch someone in the face. BUT I've been told that this is actually pretty good. It has BENOIT in it so how bad could it possibly be, right?

Wow, 40 years of the US title this year (2014).

They mention on commentary that Benoit and Eddie had a match on SD days before. EVERYONE GO WATCH THAT MATCH NOW. It's fucking incredible, and probably their second best match in WWE together (behind Vengeance 03. Fuck the haters!).

Benoit is his usual intense and violent self at the start of the match, really taking it to OJ. He does that clothesline/axehandle smash like move coming off the ropes and fuck me I have no idea how OJ even got back up after that.

OJ targets the arm of Benoit in hopes of gaining some sort of control in this match. Benoit sells it well, and OJ... doesn't thrill me with his arm work lol. You are in the ring with fucking CHRIS BENOIT. Sitting in a sodding arm lock should not even enter your mind tbh. WORK. THE. HOLD.

OJ does that stupid "O J" sign with his finger, allowing Benoit an opportunity to double leg him and punch him in the fucking face :mark:. I've said it a billion times but I LOVE Benoit's style and how he makes opponents WORK for control. He's always looking for openings and will ALWAYS take them, forcing his opponent to take back the control and make sure they don't give the guy any more opportunities for offence.

For some reason OJ decides to go after Benoit's neck... after spending half the match focusing on the arm. Then after about 2 minutes of attacking the neck... he's right back to the arm. Make up your fucking mind dammit.

Benoit looks great during his comeback, sells well still, with the arm work coming into play as OJ is able to break the grip during a German Suplex attempt at one point. Nice little touch.

They end up battling in the corner, and OJ removes the turnbuckle pad and sends Benoit face first into it! JORDAN WINS!

Overall a really good match, but it could have been better had OJ done more than sit in holds. It's these small things that prevent a match from really being great. Luckily everything else is spot on. I doubt OJ has ever or will ever have a match this good again.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*


*The Undertaker Vs Muhammad Hassan - #1 Contender Match for the World Heavyweight Championship*

Hassan. Gets moved to SD, feuds with Undertaker... and happens to have a bunch of terrorists come out and choke Undertaker... the same week as terrorists set off bombs in London. And so his career was over. Some people say it was a shame. For him personally, yeah it was. However as a fan, I don't think it was a shame at all. He sucked. His heat could have been generated by ANYONE. He was anti-American. It's been done a million times. And by much more talented people that him.

Terrorists have surrounded the ring for the match. Because apparently WWE didn't learn their lesson...

:lmao Hassan botches escaping from Undertaker. He was going from corner to corner, ducking punches and running away... and at one point ends up getting punched in the top of his head :lmao.

:lmao possibly the GOAT "ref runs away from Undertaker" spot, with the referee diving out of the ring and landing wrong, so he ended up taking a bump to the floor :lmao.

While the referee recovers, TERRORISTS ATTACK THE UNDERTAKER. I just can't get over the fact WWE have TERRORISTS on PPV :lmao.

Awesome shot from Undertaker, and Hassan takes it like he really got punched in the face. He just fucking collapses:










Any time Undertaker starts to mount some offence, those TERRORISTS keep getting involved and choking him out with wire.

:lmao at some of the faces Undertaker is throwing out while in a Camel Clutch:










Awesome.

CHOKESLAM~! Undertaker wins!!!

After the match, the TERRORIST attack the Dead Man, but end up being MURDERED one by one.










And then finally, the career of Muhammad Hassan is ENDED by The Undertaker!!!










Match is pretty crappy. Hassan does fuck all. Undertaker hits moves, the TERRORISTS attack Undertaker, Hassan tries to pin Undertaker. Rinse and repeat until Undertaker wins.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*bWo Vs Mexicools*

Well, TERRORISTS tried to kill Undertaker and Undertaker tried to kill Hassan... so let's follow that with a comedy match! Yey!

:lmao the Mexicools give the Spanish Announce Team a rake :lmao.

Mexicools come out on ride on lawn mowers, so the bWo come out on big wheels :lmao.










:lmao at Psicosis screaming in terror as Steve and Nova Irish Whip Meanie into him in the corner .

Mexicools win. Not much else to see. Mindless fun match and nothing more.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - If Eddie wins, he will reveal Rey's secret*

:mark: This is gonna be EPIC.

Oh god, Eddie is GOAT before the match even begins. Demanding that Rey shake his hand and they both smile at Dominick and then hug. Eddie is such a piece of shit, it's AWESOME. He's entertaining as hell, but at the same time you still absolutely wanna hate him because he's being such a CUNT :mark:.

At JD, Rey was all about wanting to beat the shit out of Eddie for revenge. Here it's a different match completely, with Rey trying to go for numerous quick pins in hopes of ending this one quick and putting this "secret" to rest for good.

Eddie gets crotched in the corner... AND SELLS HIS TESTICLES. If that isn't the greatest sell job in history then I don't know what is.

Oh man, Rey is superb too. He gets ONE opening and quick as a fucking flash he's sent Eddie into the ropes, hit a 619 and landing the West Coast Pop!!!

EDDIE KICKS OUT~!

Eddie kicked out and Rey is nearly CRYING because he didn't win the match. Amazing. Eddie is playing the evil cunt heel to perfection and Rey is playing his part to perfection too.

Oh man, more Eddie cunty heel schtick. He grabs Dominick and puts him between himself and Rey. Then when he lets him go and Rey checks on him, Eddie attacks Rey from behind!!! :mark:

All the while Eddie keeps looking back over at Dominick and smiling :lmao.

Between being a complete DICK, Eddie is of course trying to win the match. Working over the back of Mysterio, as well as being a DICK and stomping on his head etc.

Mysterio is in almost a life or death situation though, so no matter what Eddie does, he cannot put Rey away!

Another flurry of offence from Rey, which leads to him going for a legdrop off the ropes, only to miss. Eddie is :mark: as he gets back up and starts DANCING WITH JOY at the fact he missed the legdrop, and then hits the 3 Amigos!!!

BRAINBUSTER~! Eddie Vs Murdoch in a Brainbuster match please. If heaven exists it's probably already happened :mark:.

FROGSPLASH~! Eddie is cocky as fuck, looks over at Dominick again... then gets caught in a flash pin by Rey!!!! REY DID IT! REY DID IT!!!

I need to start up smoking just so I can have a cigarette every time I finish watching this match. Glorious. I don't think STARS~! could ever do this match justice... that being said, I'm gonna slap some on it anyway. Fuck the haters, it's happening. And it deserves EVERY star it's getting. This match is perfect. PERFECT. Storytelling is off the charts. Character work from both men makes every main eventer on the main roster in WWE right now look like they've been in the business for a week. The actual in ring work is possibly underrated too, because it DOES get overshadowed by everything else, but there is NOTHING that can be pointed to as being anything short of fantastic imo.

*Rating: ******
*CAL SCALE - 9*


*Torrie Wilson Vs Melina - Bra & Panties Match - Special Guest Referee Candice Michelle*

FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP.

*Rating: **
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Batista Vs JBL - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

33 minutes still left on the DVD. Even if they take up 13 minutes with the video package and entrances... that STILL leaves 20 minutes for the match :|.

Video package and entrance are over. 25 minutes left still .

They fumble about and brawl or something... then JBL sits in rest holds to wear down Batista. I read an article on "What if Sega still made consoles". It was pretty shit but I had more fun reading it that sitting through most of this match.

Ref bump. Orlando Jordan. Cheating. Batista decks JBL with a chair and gets DQ'd. After all of that, the match ends in a fucking DQ? :|

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 13.5*​


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

No mention yet on here it seems about the remaining last batch of comps planned for 2014.

Attitude Era Vol. 2

Slam City

Macho Man: The Randy Savage Story

Top Giants in Wrestling History

Best PPV Matches of 2014 (not confirmed but assumed)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Savage doc is the only one that interests me. AE Vol.2 COULD be good if they focus on the last 2 years of the era.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This man is out of his mind.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Cal throwing 5-stars at an Eddie/Rey match brought tears of joy to my eyes. Bravo, bravo. Well done sir. There might be 1 or 2 wrestlers who were as good of a heel as Eddie was in 2005 (off the top of my head, only Terry Funk comes anywhere close) but I can say pretty confidently that there have never been any BETTER. He was in a class entirely his own for those 6 months or so. Never seen anything like it. I'm now hoping and pleading you find a way to write a review for the 6/23/05 SD match, because along with GAB, I think those matches are when his character came into full focus and I'd love to read your take on it. Eddie's entrance in that SD match is the only non-Undertaker entrance that has ever given me goosebumps. He comes out looking like a man who has truly lost his fucking mind. His expression never changes, his eyes have massive dark circles under them and he looks like he's ready to snap and murder everyone in the crowd. He slowly walks to the ring, and then the camera zooms on his face and you see his upper lip is quivering with rage. That's what gets the goosebumps. That lip quivering. It's such a small thing that only someone like Eddie Guerrero would think to do. It makes me truly believe that Eddie has allowed his obsession with beating Rey to take over his mind.

Can't help but gush when it comes to Eddie. It's a fault I'll never be able to rid myself of, I'm afraid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Benoit vs Jordan & Eddie vs Mysterio made putting up w/that mediocrity ok. As did Undertaker killing terrorism. b/c C'MON. Amazing.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

CJack, I know that you mentioned ordering the Punk vs. Samoa Joe ROH DVD.

Did yours also come with this warning on the page when you ordered it?:
"**Please note there is some audio/video distortion with the Joe/Punk II match due to an issue with the master tape."

If so, how annoying was that distortion? I ordered the DVD anyway, hoping that it's not too bad.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> CJack, I know that you mentioned ordering the Punk vs. Samoa Joe ROH DVD.
> 
> Did yours also come with this warning on the page when you ordered it?:
> "**Please note there is some audio/video distortion with the Joe/Punk II match due to an issue with the master tape."
> ...


I got that DVD about, I guess 2 months or so ago? I think that sounds about right. Anyway, I don't remember that warning coming up but it very well could have as I ordered it using my tablet and wasn't really paying close attention. I can't imagine they did a whole new pressing of that DVD in the last 2 months, so it's safe to say we probably have the same copy. I haven't noticed any distortion at all. I've watched all 3 matches in full, even watching the third one 3 separate times and never noticed anything. I also watched the shoot interview disc twice, and again never noticed anything. So I think you are good dude (Y)

Btw-if you have two hours to kill and don't feel like watching an actual wrestling match but are still in the wrestling mood, I highly recommend watching that shoot interview with Punk and Joe. It's both highly illuminating and incredibly funny. Joe is just a hilarious dude in general, and Punk is totally captivating telling stories of his buddies drunken escapades. The story about Homicide peeing on him steals the show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rewatched Eddie/Rey from GAB 2005. The highlight of the match was Eddie calling Charles Robinson "Carlos". Bah, I'm reminded why the feud wasn't that good. The power of an awful storyline overshadowing what should have been a classic. Good match. Great Eddie performance. Barely even match of the night.

EDIT: To add on to that, I must be the only one here that prefers Eddie and Rey having exhibitions than doing anything similar to their 2005 stuff. HH97 > 6/23/05. SD 04 = WWIII97 = JD 05. January SD exhibition > GAB 05. 8/17/98 > Cage match. Everything else > Ladder and WM match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Royal Rumble 2003 ratings:

Show/Lesnar (***1/2)
Dudleyz/Regal and Storm (**)
Steiner/Hunter (*1/2)
Angle/Benoit (****)
Rumble (***)

Consistent show. I liked Angle/Benoit a whole lot more, the competitive nature of the story and stiff shots shown to represent the desperation of both wrestlers, it was a gradual shift into a fight. Oh and I cringed Angle's DDT on the edge of the ring, for the sickening aspect of it, not that it was badly executed or anything. Still not up to the 5 star, best match of the decade LOLpraise it gets, but I know it's appeal so it won't bother as much anymore (hopefully). Show/Lesnar is fun as fuck, not quite up to their stretcher or SSeries match, but an exciting five or so minutes for sure. Rumble was a mixed bag, had some good moments and one or two long periods of dullness, but THE AMERICAN BADASS returns and that's all that matters to me.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Watched Show/Lesnar from RR 03 for first time a couple weeks ago. Noted that it was every bit as good as their SS 02 match which I've watched north of 15 times over the past couple years.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Rewatched Eddie/Rey from GAB 2005. The highlight of the match was Eddie calling Charles Robinson "Carlos". Bah, I'm reminded why the feud wasn't that good. The power of an awful storyline overshadowing what should have been a classic. Good match. Great Eddie performance. Barely even match of the night.
> 
> EDIT: To add on to that, I must be the only one here that prefers Eddie and Rey having exhibitions than doing anything similar to their 2005 stuff. HH97 > 6/23/05. SD 04 = WWIII97 = JD 05. January SD exhibition > GAB 05. 8/17/98 > Cage match. Everything else > Ladder and WM match.



I love that Halloween Havoc match. I gave it 5-stars and have it as a top 5 match in WCW history. The 6/23/05 match blows it out of the water. Nuff said on the subject. That entire 2005 feud was great, and nothing you say will ever change my mind on the subject 

I'm reliving the Danielson/Morishima feud right now, on to Glory by Honor now and I have to say it's living up to my memories. Manhattan Mayhem just might be a 5-star match, it's up fathomable what Danielson was doing with a fractured orbital bone. He's as tough as they come. I really really love Morishima, he's such a great giant heel. I love all the old school nasty stuff he does, like stepping on a guys throat when they are down, or doing that Japanese Semi ass attack to Danielson in the corner. He no sells at the right times to get his heat, but sells really well at the proper times to make the baby face look strong in their come backs. I remember seeing him have a flat out amazing match with Misawa around 2003, but he's even better here. Looking forward to watching the rest of the matches tomorrow.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Danielson vs Morishima from Man Up = possibly my favorite match in ROH history.

Roundabout statement, but it sums up my thoughts on that feud all in one. Which I suppose is again, roundabout. Idk. Love to bring this up all the time. I'll find a way to say El Generico & Jimmy Jacobs matches are extravagant too.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think I may still prefer HH 97 to all their matches from 05


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I definitely do. That SD! match is overrated as fuck itt. Venture out of this thread and barely anybody knows it exists and that's because, while it's great, it isn't a classic.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Danielson vs Morishima from Man Up = possibly my favorite match in ROH history.
> 
> Roundabout statement, but it sums up my thoughts on that feud all in one. Which I suppose is again, roundabout. Idk. Love to bring this up all the time. I'll find a way to say El Generico & *Jimmy Jacobs *matches are extravagant too.


:banderas :lenny :zayn3 bama4 :ass

etc

Jimmy is a prophet.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The lack of appreciation for Jacobs from a universal conglomerate is crippling.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I rewatched his cage match with BJ last night. Him dangling the barbed wire baseball bat from his hair, covered in blood whilst sporting the most sadistic grin in the world is quite possibly the greatest visual in ROH history (that I've seen). Phenomenal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Best part is, he has quite a bit of those. Blood edit at Man Up for one & another one vs Whitmer where Jimmy lies underneath him & shouted "_Bleed on me, BJ"_. And it totally happened. Actually in both scenarios :mark:


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

This Jacobs talk makes me want to watch his dog collar match with Ambrose from 1PW. Not sure if I was a big fan the last time, though. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

And find Jacobs vs Danielson from ROH Unscripted III if you can.


----------



## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

Really enjoyed Jimmy's feud with Moxley/Ambrose. Moving shit in dem promos.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Moxley was treading on those repressed homosexual waters.


----------



## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

Just watched the MITB match from WM26, and FUCK! Matt Striker was so annoying in this match, he almost made me change the channel. Anyway the match was pretty average, good spots here and there but the flow wasn't good. 

Now watching Kaval/Ziggler (SVS), should be fun.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> EDIT: To add on to that, I must be the only one here that prefers Eddie and Rey having exhibitions than doing anything similar to their 2005 stuff. HH97 > 6/23/05. SD 04 = WWIII97 = JD 05. January SD exhibition > GAB 05. 8/17/98 > Cage match. Everything else > Ladder and WM match.


6/23/05 has been my favourite match ever for four years but I still think Havoc is better. Did on last watch, anyway. Don't agree with the rest of that at all. I might think Halloween is their best match, but I'm pretty sure the next best 4 or 5 happened in WWE. Actually I vaguely recalling loving the match from 1998. Or, maybe a Nitro match in 97? 10/11/97? That sound right to anybody? These might have never existed. Either way, I'd go

1. Havoc 97
2. 6/23/05
3. Judgment Day
4. GAB or 3/18/04
5. whichever one didn't win^
6. this would require effort to think about


etc.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Danielson vs Morishima from Man Up = possibly my favorite match in ROH history.
> 
> Roundabout statement, but it sums up my thoughts on that feud all in one. Which I suppose is again, roundabout. Idk. Love to bring this up all the time. I'll find a way to say El Generico & Jimmy Jacobs matches are extravagant too.


I will say Man Up has the best finishing sequence of just about any match. Sweet Jesus the heat Shima gets when he's all "fuck this" and just starts destroying Danielson's eye...wow. 

I just finished Rising Above and now it's on to Final Battle. I have never seen a Jimmy Jacobs match, which is a good one for me to watch to get the full experience of what he's about?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the Danielson/Miroshima matches in order is one of the glorious moments in watching this grand old sport. :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Watching the Danielson/Miroshima matches in order is one of the glorious moments in watching this grand old sport. :mark:



Tell me about it man, just finished Final Battle and I have a feeling of complete satisfaction. This feud is what wrestling is supposed to be about. The story telling, the steadily elevating intensity, everything is just perfect.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

I think I've watched the part of Final Battle from as soon as the lights go out for Danielson's entrance to the "ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOWN" probably over fifty times. Goosebumps every time. Timed impeccably and sets the tone for a crazy war.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Flux said:


> I rewatched his cage match with BJ last night. Him dangling the barbed wire baseball bat from his hair, covered in blood whilst sporting the most sadistic grin in the world is quite possibly the greatest visual in ROH history (that I've seen). Phenomenal.


I got this match at 5*. Just a beautiful story. So barbaric and fitting that Jacobs loses a tooth and loses 9 months or so of his career because of this match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I need to relax and watch a great match. Someone please remind me which DVD set I can find the awesome Eddie/Rey SD 05 match on please . I really don't wanna have to go through all my damn collection trying to find the sodding thing .


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Rey Mysterio: The Biggest Little Man


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Loverly, thanks .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Loverly, thanks .


No chance of getting a short review of your thoughts? Atleast whether you think as highly of it as you do their GAB match?

Does anyone know if Rude and Steamboat had any other great matches besides the Ironman? I remember on the History of the WCW DVD Magnum TA says he saw "a SERIES of some of the best matches I've ever seen between Rick Rude and Ricky Steamboat". I'm wondering if he was just talking about house show matches or if they ever had any other classics on TV/PPV?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

CBA to write much about it lol. But it is still spectacular. Probably a better match than GAB, but GAB makes me wanna throw infinite stars at it regardless . Likely the best SD match aside from Taker/Angle in 03, and probably better than any Raw match ever too.

As for Rude/Steamboat, I can only assume Magnum was talking of house shows. They have a handful of good matches, going all the way back to their feud in the WWF, but none of them are anywhere near the same level as the Iron Man.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Best Paul London matches, please?



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I got that DVD about, I guess 2 months or so ago? I think that sounds about right. Anyway, I don't remember that warning coming up but it very well could have as I ordered it using my tablet and wasn't really paying close attention. I can't imagine they did a whole new pressing of that DVD in the last 2 months, so it's safe to say we probably have the same copy. I haven't noticed any distortion at all. I've watched all 3 matches in full, even watching the third one 3 separate times and never noticed anything. I also watched the shoot interview disc twice, and again never noticed anything. So I think you are good dude (Y)
> 
> Btw-if you have two hours to kill and don't feel like watching an actual wrestling match but are still in the wrestling mood, I highly recommend watching that shoot interview with Punk and Joe. It's both highly illuminating and incredibly funny. Joe is just a hilarious dude in general, and Punk is totally captivating telling stories of his buddies drunken escapades. The story about Homicide peeing on him steals the show.


Thanks for answering. I will definitely be watching the shoot interview, but I want to watch the matches first, so that things aren't ruined.

Btw, were you loving that Vickie/Stephanie segment? I thought of you when Vickie said "Guerrerrro!" in Stephanie's face. :lol


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Does anyone know if Rude and Steamboat had any other great matches besides the Ironman? I remember on the History of the WCW DVD Magnum TA says he saw "a SERIES of some of the best matches I've ever seen between Rick Rude and Ricky Steamboat". I'm wondering if he was just talking about house show matches or if they ever had any other classics on TV/PPV?


SuperBrawl II is pretty awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

LilOlMe said:


> Best Paul London matches, please?


vs. Michael Shane (Street Fight, ROH Unscripted)
vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH Night of the Butcher)
vs. AJ Styles vs. Low Ki (ROH One Year Anniversary)
vs. AJ Styles (ROH Night of the Grudges)

vs. Kevin Steen (PWG All Star Weekend IX Night one)

w/ Brian Kendrick vs. KC James & Idol Stevens (WWE No Mercy 2006)
w/ Brian Kendrick vs. Hardy Boyz vs. MNM vs. Regal & Taylor (Ladder Match, Armageddon 2006)
vs. Billy Kidman (No Mercy 2004)
vs. Chavo Guerrero (Judgment Day 2005)

Just going by what I've seen.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

I gave London's 2/3 falls match against Danielson, as well as his singles against Styles, both *****.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

^Perfect, thank you both! People can keep 'em comin'.

Just watched *Punk vs. Samoa Joe I*, and wow. Have so much more respect for Punk from in-ring perspective now. Been a long time since I watched his ROH stuff, and I'm reminded of how I initially felt about him. 

I don't know why I feel it didn't translate quite as well in the WWE (though he was phenomenal in every other aspect there for me), but he was incredible in the ring back then. Part of it is that he just has that great, unspeakable, chemistry with Joe...but every single thing Punk did had meaning in that match. This match is pretty much the definition of what I would call "great psychology", starting with the use of the headlocks, and the way that Punk would counter and anticipate moves before they even happen.

Joe has always impressed me every time I've seen him, so it's no surprise that I loved him here. He was masterful, and is probably one of the most complete wrestlers who has ever existed. Nice to see that he has good endurance in addition to everything else.

Nothing else to say, other than the fact that the time flew right by. Hard to believe that they have a match that tops that, but I know that they do.

I also now believe that Punk is better than the constraints of the WWE. I swear, I think that everyone having their hands in the pot (road agents, H, Vince, etc.) hinders people who already have a natural feel for what's right in the ring.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I honestly think Punk was a better worker in the WWE than in ROH. In ROH, he was definitely very good, but his style was so different from everyone else there that sometimes he just couldn't get what he wanted with someone (looking at you, AJ Styles). In the WWE, he was able to play to his strength even more, which is character exposition. Working in the WWE definitely helped him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk & WWE both befitted from each other, I'd say. Still think Punk's tenure in ROH was bumpin', despite the occasional dream pairing not exactly going smoothly. _(vs Danielson at Reborn: stage whateverthehell)_ Great stuff all around though.

Paul London recs:

singles vs Regal & every tag w/Kendrick vs Regal & Taylor. _(grew lazy to find and post these)_
vs Billy Kidman from Smackdown circa '05 where London got busted open hard way. _(would put this over the PPV match, iirc)_

and b/c I always have this handy:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

LilOlMe said:


> ^Perfect, thank you both! People can keep 'em comin'.
> 
> Just watched *Punk vs. Samoa Joe I*, and wow. Have so much more respect for Punk from in-ring perspective now. Been a long time since I watched his ROH stuff, and I'm reminded of how I initially felt about him.
> 
> ...



See watching that match had the opposite effect on me. I always knew Punk was a great wrestler in the WWE, I just never realized how good he was even as far back as 2004. I didn't watch indie wrestling back then, and I stopped watching WWE during the time Punk first started showing up. I didn't even know who CM Punk was until I ordered WM 25 and saw him win the MitB match. He didn't really do much in it to impress me, so it wasn't really until I saw him feud with Hardy that I realized he was a talented cat and someone worth following. Even, I was and have never been a full fledged Punk fan, I more so have just always respected him for his work in and outside the ring. Its just his character was never one that resonated with me (I'm a former addict so maybe hearing all his "I'm straight edge so I'm better than you! Promos just rubbed me the wrong way). But yea, getting that Punk vs Joe set opened my eyes to the fact that he was a world class wrestler for just about a decade. That first match is great, the second match is even better, and the third match is the best of the bunch in my humble opinion. I was lucky, I had no idea who won the third and final match (I won't spoil it for you) so the last 5 minutes or so had me on the edge of my seat and fully immersed in their story.



Yeah1993 said:


> SuperBrawl II is pretty awesome.


Forgot about that one. Yea it's pretty good, I wouldn't quite say it's great but I did enjoy it. I don't know, that match just never seemed to get that higher gear that their Beach Blast match got to. And that's saying something, because their match at Beach Blast is one of the most slow, methodical matches I've ever watched and loved.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Do Punk and Bryan have a good match in ROH ? Cody,Flux,Corey or anyone else ?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

They have a match in ROH. I wouldn't call it great but it's worth watching. My favorite type of match. Limb work pays off for the finish.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Do Punk and Bryan have a good match in ROH ? Cody,Flux,Corey or anyone else ?


I liked the match that Cody mentioned, but I can see why others wouldn't like it. They had a 2/3 falls match in FIP that I thought was very good. I remember watching another match they had where Punk told a kid in the crowd that he hopes his parents die. Not a "classic" of sorts, but they weren't trying to have a classic that night. Felt more like a house show match.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Austin/Angle SS '01 - **** 1/2


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Have there been any recent 45+ minute, single pin matches in WWE?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Have there been any recent 45+ minute, single pin matches in WWE?


Absolutely not. Closest I can think of would be Taker/HHH end of an era and the first Rock/Cena which both went 30 minutes. I'm honestly not sure if any one fall match has went 40+ since Cena/Michaels on RAW.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Punk/Cena MITB has to be close or even over the 40 min mark


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

NAITCH said:


> Punk/Cena MITB has to be close or even over the 40 min mark


33:44 according to wiki.

It also says the SD! ladder match went 24:27. Is that right? I don't remember it being that long. Wouldn't surprise me that an awesome match like that flew right by though.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I always mistake Michaels/Cena for an Ironman match. Wikipedia lists the duration of matches, just for reference. Punk/Cena was 33 minutes according to it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well I'm happy to say that I finally "get" Triple H vs. Kane from Judgment Day 2001. Really well-done chain match that was both brutal and made perfect sense. Kane is not a good seller, but he put on the performance of a lifetime here. And that pop when he finally won. Taker/Austin was good too, but not as great as I remember it being. A lot of the first half of the match was kinda boring. Last ten minutes ruled.

:lmao at that tiny ladder in the Angle/Benoit 2/3 falls match. My goodness what a mess.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Just finished Bryan vs. Punk from Over The Limit 2012. What a match. Everytime I watch it, it gets better. I've watched it three times. Once live, thought it was great but not a classic. Second time a few months ago, threw ****3/4 at it. This time I was blown away by the match and just want to give it the full 5. Putting this over Shield vs. Hell No/Ryback @ TLC for MotY in 2012.

Would have been nice to have seen a face Bryan vs. heel Punk match at a big 4 event.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Is this the date of that Danielson/Punk 2/3 falls FIP match: (3/26/2005)


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Danielson vs Morishima from Man Up = possibly my favorite match in ROH history.





The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I will say Man Up has the best finishing sequence of just about any match. Sweet Jesus the heat Shima gets when he's all "fuck this" and just starts destroying Danielson's eye...wow.





The Fab Four said:


> Watching the Danielson/Miroshima matches in order is one of the glorious moments in watching this grand old sport. :mark:





Flux said:


> I think I've watched the part of Final Battle from as soon as the lights go out for Danielson's entrance to the "ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOWN" probably over fifty times. Goosebumps every time. Timed impeccably and sets the tone for a crazy war.


Fuck, where can I find these bouts? :mark: I've only seen the one where they met at Manhattan Mayhem 2 on the Rise to Glory DVD.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I found this after searching long and hard. This is only their Final Battle match which is a "Fight Without Honor"- I think it's the last match of their feud, so sadly I haven't been able to watch the entire series yet enaldo

Anyway, this is still great. I went a full five stars on it myself. Amazing.

Mod Edit: No ROH matches/links unless from the official ROH channel.

It's in a private playlist so doesn't turn up on a simple Youtube search.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Aw shucks, just saw the mod edit. Sorry about that.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone remember exactly at what point on Raw the Sting promo was shown?


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

After the Nikki Bella/Alicia Fox/Cameron "match".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cheers.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

All of the Morishima/Danielson matches I consider to be some of the best matches of all time, theyre all just amazing.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Random thought: Tommorrow's PPV will be a win win really. Worst case scenerio the classic in recent years rampant short term booking rears its head and while WWE blows off potential for these feuds with long matches ending decisively and undercuts SS, we get a great in ring ppv. Best case this ppv serves as seasoning to help fufill the potential of some big feuds and we get something we havent got in a long time. I predict that booking blows the load on Swagger/Rusev and AJ/paige while preserving Rollins/Mox. (they cant be THAT incompetent to not preserve). I would think Jericho uses his veteran stroke to draw out Y2J/Wyat as it should be since like Cena's feud, I see real but untapped potential.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Watched all of them but what consider the weakest match, Final Battle. I know most people consider that the most epic thing ever but I just don't see it. Love Love Love the first four matches though. Danielson stomping his dick is something that is just to epic for words.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Best Paul London matches, please?


Don't know if I would consider it one of his best matchs but his match against Jerry Lynn from MLW Revolutions 2003 is awesome. Paul London's babyface performance is extremely great in this match. The fans were more behind Jerry Lynn whose the heel but during the match, London's performance is able to get the fans to rally behind him as his comebacks are so well-paced. Also added to the fact that Jerry Lynn's heel performance is great from his heel antics and his working of London's lower back along with dictating the pace of the match. Here's the link to the match if you want to check it out:


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Anybody bothering with Battleground later? Dean/Rollins should be short and crazy to set up a NODQ at Summerslam. Looking forward to it all the same. Rusev/Swagger is what I'm looking forward to most of all believe it or not. They've built that match perfectly, I want to see it and the crowd should be hot. I'm fully expecting a Cena win but hopefully BROCK comes out and minces him at the end. It's a pretty decent card although I'm not watching. I'll check out bits and pieces when I get a chance during the week though. Summerslam build starting tomorrow night too. 

:brock


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm actually looking forward to most of it tbh. Ambrose/Rollins, Wyatts/Usos, Wyatt/Jericho and maybe Swagger/Rusev should all be good. Don't care about the main event though, doubt Brock will make an appearance tbh.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

LOLCENAWINS seems pretty obvious, but I don't think Brock will show up at the ppv. I wish he would, but just seems like something Vince would save for the ratings on Raw.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Fuck I forgot about Jericho/Wyatt. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one too lol. I want BROCK to murder Cena at the end though. 

Bork and Heyman aligning with the Authority. We could end up with Hunter, Steph, Heyman, Brock, Orton and Rollins all in the ring together at some stage.

:banderas


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

The Outlaw Josey Wales said:


> LOLCENAWINS seems pretty obvious, but I don't think Brock will show up at the ppv. I wish he would, but just seems like something Vince would save for the ratings on Raw.


Surely ratings for Raw would be better if he DID show up tonight?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'M BACK BIATCHES~!

Yeah, I am looking forward to BG. Ambrose/Rollins, Usos/Wyatts, Jericho/Wyatt, Swagger/Rusev and even AJ/Paige should all be good, even if it is a good way to completely rip the heat off SummerSlam's card. DAT BORK RETURN THO.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Starbuck said:


> Fuck I forgot about Jericho/Wyatt. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one too lol. I want BROCK to murder Cena at the end though.
> 
> Bork and Heyman aligning with the Authority. We could end up with Hunter, Steph, Heyman, Brock, Orton and Rollins all in the ring together at some stage.
> 
> :banderas



And THEDEMONKANE, if anyone cares  :lol

Predicting Usos/Wyatts 2 out of 3 falls to be MOTN, since Ambrose and Rollins will likely save something for Summerslam. Can be a good PPV if the matches deliver to their potential. All matches have a chance to be atleast decent.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm calling Rowan and Harper to win in 2 straight falls tonight. I'm probably one of the few really looking forward to the battle royal too. Cesaro, Miz, Ziggler, Dallas, who's it gonna be!?


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I just hope they bring the Network to the UK. I'd rather pay that to get Summerslam and take me to the Rumble than pay out just for Summerslam alone. I do think they're giving away a little too much with this BG card though. Rusev/Swagger and Jericho/Wyatt first time matches should have been saved for Summerslam if you ask me but whatever, I'm sold on Brock/Cena so I'll be watching anyway.

:lmao I forgot about the tag and Battle Royal as well. I guess I'm not excited for this as I thought I was lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I predict the Battle Royal won't be as good as the Andre The Giant Memorial 8*D


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Is Cesaro in the Battle Royal? I call him to win again. MY CLIENT WHO WON THE ANDRE THE GIANT MEMORIAL BATTLE ROYAL AT WRESTLEMANIA AND THE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP BATTLE ROYAL AT BATTLEGROUND...CESAROOOOOOOO.

:heyman


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes he is. And I bet he'll slam Khali to win the title, just like he slammed Show to win the Andre trophy. THE MAN WHO BODYSLAMMED THE BIG SHOW TO WIN THE ANDRE THE GIANT MEMORIAL BATTLE ROYAL AT WRESTLEMANIA, AND BODYSLAMMED THE GREAT KHALI TO WIN THE INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPIONSHIP BATTLE ROYAL AT BATTLEGROUND, I GIVE YOU THE NEEEEWWW INTERCONTINENTAL CHAMPION, THE KING OF SWING, CESAROOOOOO!!!! 

:heyman3

And then he'll go on to defend against Ziggler at SummerSlam I guess.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

:lol Heyman needs to introduce BROCK and Cesaro at the same time. He'd be out of breath by the end of it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I'm half hoping :bo wins the Battle Royal tbh. And continues the GREATEST STREAK IN SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT TODAY MAGGLE :jbl


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, agreed with Raven - I like Cesaro and I want him to succeed, but I want Bo to win this. If you'd tell me a year ago that BO FUCKING DALLAS, arguably the blandest babyface ever, would become one of the most unique and entertaining guys around, I'd throw a laugh at you. But he completely reinvented himself when he turned heel, and has become one of the few things I care about the show nowadays, even if I don't truly mark for him or anything.

And then when he succesfully defends the IC Title and becomes 21-BO, BROCK comes in and ends the Streak. MY CLIENT WHO BROKE BO DALLAS' UNDEFEATED STREAK AT (insert date), BAAARRRROOOCCCKKK LLLEEEEEEESSNAAAAAARRR!!!!
:heyman3 :brock


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

They'd actually be forced to book Bo strong if he won the IC title due to his streak so there's that :lmao

Honestly I'm fine with Bo, Cesaro, Ziggler and even Sheamus. Just not Kofi please.

And I'll laugh my ass off if Bo wins a title before Bray :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh yeah, Bo winning a title before Bray would be weird to say the least. But then again, The Miz won the WWE Title before Ricky Steamboat, Curt Hennig or Roddy Piper so there's always that. Makes me wanna watch Bray/Bo, though.

Or better: Brock/Bo. That's the Main Event of Survivor Series right there - Bo wrestles only a few more matches for a few more months, being 21-BO and Intercontinental Champion. BAROCK LESNAR challenges him for the WWE WHC and IC Titles. BAROCK breaks Bo's streak and becomes the first ever WWE World Intercontinental Heavyweight Champion and officially gains the nickname THE STREAK *BO*REAKER. This spells money!

:brock


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd love Bo to win but the midcard titles are a kiss of death. He'd be ruined after about 2 months. I hope they unify the IC and US titles. There's absolutely no need for 2.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

I'd keep them as two separate titles if they can get Sheamus to drop it to Rusev. Otherwise yeah unification is the way to go.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

If there needs to be 2 titles keep the IC and bring in a cruiser title again. At least give the guys further down the card something to fight for. With some of the guys they currently have and the guys in NXT waiting to come up they could have a kickass cruiser division. The US title is pointless and so is the IC atm. Full of random matches with nothing behind them. They could probably get rid of one and nobody would even notice they're that worthless right now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm pretty sure we would've gotten Sheamus/Barrett at SummerSlam over the unified titles, but unfortunely, Barrett had bad news of his own. 

But hey, at least his replacement should be good too. And yeah, I'd also say that the midcard titles should be unified. And once that's done, with only one World Champion and one midcard champion, they should bring back the Cruiserweight Title.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

There isn't enough top tier talent to justify 2 world titles any more. There's no need at all for 2 midcard titles. Just 1 world title and 1 midcard title. Maybe then we'll get to see guys ascend up the card again like we got to see HBK, Austin, Trips, Rocky etc. There are currently 5 titles and only 1 of them means anything, just about.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Try telling that World Title argument to Pyro/Tyrion Lannister 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

WWE should do a WCW 2000 and hit the reset button, vacating all the titles etc 8*D.

So Battleground is tonight huh? Ambrose/Rollins is the only match I'm really interested in.

Almost finished my next 05 PPV Ramble. Main Event to go and I'm done, should be online later. Taking a break and watching something else + playing more Mario Galaxy 2 .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Been watching the 2002 Royal Rumble. Maven can still come back and denote the Rumble void dammit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Been watching the 2002 Royal Rumble. Maven can still come back and denote the Rumble void dammit.


The best part of that Rumble is EASILY Mr. Perfect coming back and actually working pretty damn well. I remember when his music hit, I totally recognized it but I couldn't remember whose it was, since I was so young when Mr. Perfect was in his prime in the WWE. Then I saw the towel and it all clicked with me again. I love Curt Hennig, he was just the best.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Oh definitely. Hennig being in there still at the end was awesome, as was his moment with Kurt Angle. I do need to see more pre WWF Hennig tbh, havn't seen much outside of a couple of Bockwinkel matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On the Battle Royal, I'm hoping for Bo to win (since it looks like Sandow might not be in it... then again even if he was, the only thing he probably would've won was the award for first elimination). I wouldn't terribly mind if Sheamus won though, as I do think the two mid-card titles should be unified. 

The main event... I'm just hoping Reigns doesn't win and hey fuck him up... Or even worse, they then don't want him to lose the title and he beats Brock and in turn, that fucks Brock up. Im kinda pulling for Orton, although I do want Brock/Cena, so Cena winning is fine by me.

I'm torn on who I want to win between Rusev and Swagger. Swagger has some serious momentum right now and it almost warrants him beating Rusev... but Rusev getting beaten by Swagger as his first loss? I don't know about that... I think his could be MOTN if Ambrose and Rollins don't blow their load on their match.

Speaking of Ambrose/Rollins, in a rare case I'm hoping for a no contest or dq finish, which Ambrose kicking Rollins ass afterwards. I think they should give Ambrose the win at Summerslam, Rollins the win at NOC, and then if the feud is hot enough, put them inside the Cell as the rubber match. Who wins in that? I'd personally give it to Ambrose since Rollins does have MITB to fall back on, but as long as both are booked strongly after the feud is over, it's good either way.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> On the Battle Royal, I'm hoping for Bo to win (since it looks like Sandow might not be in it... then again even if he was, the only thing he probably would've won was the award for first elimination). I wouldn't terribly mind if Sheamus won though, as I do think the two mid-card titles should be unified.
> 
> The main event... I'm just hoping Reigns doesn't win and hey fuck him up... Or even worse, they then don't want him to lose the title and he beats Brock and in turn, that fucks Brock up. Im kinda pulling for Orton, although I do want Brock/Cena, so Cena winning is fine by me.
> 
> ...




Here is how I would do it. Whoever wins the Battle Royal, it needs to be a heel who some how screws Sheamus from winning so they can set up a unification match at Summerslam. I'm not 100% sure who it should be, it just can't be Cesaro as we already saw endless mediocre matches from those two with no real feud. Say if Bo ends up winning, he would do something stupid that inadvertently results in Sheamus getting knocked out giving Bo the win and Sheamus motivation to want to take him out.

For the Fatal Fourway, Reigns needs to really get beaten down for a lot of it, then he can have a great comeback in the end, look to be on the verge of pinning Orton for the win, only to have Hunter come out and deck him with the sledge. Randall can then slowly get up, and Cena slides in, hits the AA to retain it, setting up Brock/Cena for the title at SS and Reigns/HHH.

For Rusev/Swagger, I would book it so that Swagger looks really strong and good throughout the match, always outsmarting Rusev and gaining the advantage. Swagger can grab the Patriot lock in the end, and just when it looks like Rusev is done for, he can roll through and low blow Swagger while the ref isn't looking. He grabs the "Accolade" camel clutch, but Swagger refuses to tap and ends up passing out in the hold.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

2002 Rumble :mark: :mark: :mark:

Transformers or Planet of the Apes people? Serious question. I can't decide what to see even though I don't want to see any of them. The things we do, eh?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dawn of the POTA, definitely. It was pretty twisty and awesome, even better than Rise. Transformers was hideous, super boring trash, only second to Revenge of the Fallen as the worst of its franchise. But then again, that franchise only had one not bad movie (the original), so yeah.

Oh and bad news for all Lana/Rusev fans (including myself): apparently there are rumors that, with the recent plane tragedy in Ukraine and controversy with Vladimir Putin, they want to drop the ball with Lana and Rusev. Kinda what happened with Hassan in 2005.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> Transformers or Planet of the Apes people? Serious question. I can't decide what to see even though I don't want to see any of them. The things we do, eh?


I think I actually feel a little sorry for you . Try and nap if you can.

Back to my 05 ramble. 20 minutes left of the show.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> I think I actually feel a little sorry for you . Try and nap if you can.
> 
> Back to my 05 ramble. 20 minutes left of the show.


Naps are for babies, Cal. Well, babies and gingers 8*D.

I was leaning towards Apes ATF so I think I'll choose that. I always thought Transformers was a pile of shit anyway. Emotional robots is both hilarious and embarrassing. Ah well, at least I don't have to pay.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't nap . I have a very strict sleep routine these days . So ha .

Not bothered about the Rusev shit being dropped tbh... but it would be nice if they find a spot for Lana elsewhere .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd be annoyed if they dropped Rusev/Lana gimmick. It's gold atm. They'll probably make him Bulgarian again. :vince3


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

They could turn him face by having him denounce Russia and Putin after what happened 8*D.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the Armageddon 2006 ladder match atm. Anyone have recs for a couple of Kendrick/London tag matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - WWE Tag Team Titles - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
London & Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Brian Kendrick & Paul London Vs The Pit Bulls - WWE Tag Team Titles - Great American Bash July 23rd 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Brian Kendrick & Paul London Vs KC James & Idol Stevens - No Mercy 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
MNM Vs Paul London, Brian Kendrick & Jillian Hall - Smackdown May 19th 2006 - *** - 2
MNM Vs Paul London & Brian Kendrick - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - *** - 2


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I am bothered. Because Rusev is a good wrestler, Lana does everything she does right and I find them entertaining. And I really don't give a fuck about wheater or not their gimmick is racist (then again, I'm not American so I can't get those feels ).

And I bet my ass that you're watching Batista vs Eddie from No Mercy, Cal.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't give a shit about Rusev and Bo Dallas tbh. Hope Sheamus wins the battle royal and unifies the belts.

I forgot the PPV is gonna be on tonight. Was planning to finish off my #215071507135705th GTA San Andreas storyline run tonight during the time the PPV is on, but hey, I can do both at the same time now. 

Too bad the main event result is so obvious. 

And CAL, long time no requests - but do you think you're able to upload Edge vs Orton from Raw 13 Dec 2004? I had it in semi-bad quality in my computer but I can't find it anymore and cba downloading that shit quality Raw episode I took it from so I'm going for the ever reliable source.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> And CAL, long time no requests - but do you think you're able to upload Edge vs Orton from Raw 13 Dec 2004? I had it in semi-bad quality in my computer but I can't find it anymore and cba downloading that shit quality Raw episode I took it from so I'm going for the ever reliable source.


I'll dig the disc out and get it done now for ya.



ATF said:


> I am bothered. Because Rusev is a good wrestler, Lana does everything she does right and I find them entertaining. And I really don't give a fuck about wheater or not their gimmick is racist (then again, I'm not American so I can't get those feels ).
> 
> And I bet my ass that you're watching Batista vs Eddie from No Mercy, Cal.


Ha.










*Survivor Series 2005*

THE UNDERTAKER RETURNS TONIGHT!!!! And probably some matches too. Whatever. UNDERTAKER~!

:lmao a "where's Sting?" sign in the crowd. 9 years later, not much has changed :lmao.


*Booker T Vs Chris Benoit - Best of 7 Series for the WWE United States Championship - Match 1*

Not sure what to do here. One the one hand, I wanna avoid this like Booker T avoids talent. One the other hand, people tend to praise this match.

Those people can go to hell.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Bischoff tells Vince he plans to screw Cena tonight. Cena shows up. Makes a gay comment. Vince tries to act black. Calls Cena the N word. Walks past Booker T. Greatest. Segment. Ever. :lmao


*Trish Stratus Vs Melina - WWE Women's Championship Match*

Mickie James is at ringside too :mark:.

So this match takes place because MNM kidnapped Trish and... challenged her to a match. Was the kidnapping part REALLY needed?

CROSS BODY~! Trish launches herself on all 3 members of MNM!

Yes, I'm fully aware that I just skipped a CHRIS BENOIT match and am now sitting through Melina Vs Trish. Suck it.

Melina is nice and aggressive early on, and really smashes the shit out of Trish's back in the corner with some elbows. Tazz and Joey nearly end up in a fight due to the whole "Raw Vs Smackdown" thing that's going on at the time .

Oooook, Mickie James and Melina go at it on the outside and... no DQ. While the referee is busy watching those 2 go at it, Nitro and Mercury set up Trish for the Snap Shot! Referee catches them in the act and... no DQ. Because... STUFF~! Instead he sends them to the back.

Ah well, I'm glad the match is continuing because it's been pretty good so far. Melina is really working over Trish's back and looks more competent in the ring than I remember her being. Though I rarely actually sat through the women matches even in 05 so fuck knows how much good stuff I might have missed (guessing NOT A LOT tbh lol).

MELINA IS A SCREAMER :mark:.

MATRIX~!

STIFF ELBOWS FROM TRISH~!

Some nice counters leading into the finish, including Mickie moving Trish out of the way on the apron to avoid getting hit!

This was actually good lol.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Ric Flair Vs Triple H - Last Man Standing Match*

Bah. They had a fucking EPIC match at Taboo Tuesday. One of the best cage matches ever. And then they go on to have this match. And it's a pile of shite. I know because I watched it not too long ago. I was hoping it would be great and somehow I'd just not "got it" before. Nope. Still sucked. Expecting it to still suck this time around. But I'm gonna watch it anyway just to piss off all the people who for some reason think it's something other than shit . I'm nice like that .

Lillian looks smoking hot. FAP.

:lmao HHH attacks Flair on his way to the ring and Flair already looks out on his feet :lmao.

HHH burries the IC title by taking it off of Flair and launching it out of the ring. This match isn't even for the title, yet the cage match was? Well I guess given the result of this match they didn't want to put the belt on HHH.

KENDO STICK~! Flair hits HHH a few times with it... then drops it in favour of CHOPS~! :lmao

A couple of suplexes later and THE GAME is in control... wait, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? :lmao










HHH HAS A SCREWDRIVER~! HE'S SCREWING THE NATURE BOY~! HE'S SCREWING FLAIR SO HARD HE'S BLEEDING~!

MISSED KNEE DROP~! FLAIR SELLS IT ANYWAY~! :lmao

ANOTHER MISSED KNEE DROP~! FLAIR SELLS THAT ONE TOO~! :lmao

Some guys completely no sell shit, but Flair sells shit that doesn't even connect! GOAT.

"COME ON FLAIR. GET UP YOU OLD BASTARD. STAY DOWN OR I'LL PUT YOU DOWN FOR GOOD." Fucks sake HHH, make your mind up...

Flair grabs HHH's balls! TESTICULAR CLAW~! Meh, was better in the cage match than here. Everything was better in the cage match than here though :side:.

HHH grabs a chair... then puts it down and punches Flair in the face instead. Which gives Flair a second wind. I know the feeling. When I get punched in the face repeatedly I too get my second wind...

Is Flair a vampire? I ask because he's kinda obsessed with blood, and he does a lot of biting in this match too :side:. Wait, no, he can't be, otherwise he wouldn't look like a 90 year old man nowadays .

Honestly this match has kinda bored me so far, right up until FLAIR makes a comeback and begins to maul HHH's legs and testicles. HHH on offence is just rarely a thing of beauty and the LMS rules don't typically make a match good, it's what the guys in the match DO with the rules. Here it was just HHH hitting a move, waiting for the count, hitting a move, waiting for the count etc. Flair on the other hand is more about trying to destroy HHH's legs rather than hitting random shit in hopes of it knocking him out long enough.

Fucks sake. HHH, who just had his legs mauled for a couple of minutes and is limping BAD... decides to go to the outside, pick up the "heavy" steel steps, throw them into the ring, pick them up and RUN INTO FLAIR with them. TWICE. Thankfully the second time fails and Flair turns it around on him... but still. WHY EVEN TRY THAT AT ALL? When my knee is giving me problems I try and avoid doing shit that involved me RUNNING or LIFTING HEAVY OBJECTS or... wait, actually that sounds like me when my knee is fine. MY POINT STILL STANDS THOUGH.

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up.

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up. Gives HHH the finger :mark:.

:lmao worst corner punches every by HHH. OOOOOO UUUUUHHHH OOOOOO UHHHHH. Those are the noises he makes :lmao.

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up. OAP Flair, who has been busted open badly and beaten up most of this match... is making HHH's finisher look like shit :lmao.

Sledgehammer to the back and it's done with.

Match overall isn't total garbage, that I'll admit. But it doesn't even enter the same stratosphere as the Cage match. Has a bunch of flaws (HHH on offence...) but also has some great moments and FLAIR being FLAIR.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Backstage with TEAM SMACKDOWN. Orton is basically saying Batista is useless because he's hurt. JBL is sucking up to Orton. Mysterio tries to defend Batista. Lashley literally just stands in the back and says NOTHING. Batista shakes his hand and Lashley's mouth moves but no words come out :lmao.

LITA FAP FAP FAP FAP FAP. Edge is there too or something. LITA. They announce they will be starting the Cutting Edge soon. Yawn. He mocks some american football player. Yawn. :lmao no wait, he's a Baseball player. My bad. I don't care. The Baseball dude says he and Edge have something on common; he hits balls, Edge has none. Ummm... how is that having something in common?


*John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - WWE Championship Match*

Angle has his own personal referee; Daivari. SO HE CAN'T POSSIBLY LOSE, RIGHT? :lmao

I'm watching this PPV the same day I posted No Mercy 2003 on my site. That show features Angle Vs Cena too. Except it's fucking TREMENDOUS, unlike every other match they ever had. Maybe on this watch I'll see greatness in this one? 

:lmao this was during the time the "You Suck" chants were bleeped :lmao.

Angle is a tad over in this match . Cena should have stayed on SD against guys like JBL. I swear that's the only title defence he had in 2005 where he was the defacto face :lmao. He moved to Raw and got into a feud with Christian and Jericho, both of whom got cheered over him. Singles feud with Jericho, who got cheered more than him. And then right into an Angle feud, who was over as fuck at the time regardless of his opponent.

:lmao Cena hits a HIP TOSS, and Angle sells it like the match could have been over half a dozen times, but the referee doesn't count! They could have at least done that spot with a move that could have ACTUALLY potentially possibly maybe won the match...

Bischoff before this match CLEARLY told Vince McMahon that he would SCREW Cena just like Vince screwed Bret in 97. So Angle has the Ankle Lock on Cena, Daivari even kicks Cena's hand off the ropes and... waits to call for the bell when Cena submits. WHY NOT JUST CALL FOR THE BELL? THE PLAN IS TO SCREW CENA.

Cena slaps Daivari a few times to get himself DQ'd because he's a pussy. Angle stops the DQ, but Daivari gets taken out so now we get a normal non biased referee.

Angle apparently went to Steiner School since 90% of his offence is suplexes. 6% is submission holds, 2% is punches and the other 14.7% is mat wrestling.

FIVE KNUCKLE WUFFLE~! :lmao WHY DID COACH SAY IT LIKE THAT? :lmao

Angle clotheslines the referee so we can get another one because... he didn't like that one? I could understand if Bischoff came running out or something... but another normal referee? WHAT WAS THE POINT?!?!

Angle uppercuts the new referee. Why didn't that referee DQ Angle in the first place for attacking the other ref?

Lil' Naich from SD comes out to be the 4th referee, and does nothing but get in the ring and count to 3 straight away because Angle walks into an F-U.

What a load of shitty fuck this match is.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Eric Bischoff Vs Teddy Long*

Fuck. Off.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


*Batista, JBL, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Bobby Lashley Vs Shawn Michaels, Kane, The Big Show, carlito & Chris Masters - Raw Vs Smackdown Survivor Series Elimination Match*

 Eddie Guerrero was supposed to be in this match .

Complete silence for Lashley's entrance :lmao. He's been on TV for like 2 months or something at this point, and was a last minute addition to the team because Eddie couldn't make it .

So we start with HBK and Orton, who were the final 2 men in the 2003 Raw SVS Elimination Match, which ended with Orton defeating HBK and ending Austin's career!

SLAPS~!

:lmao Orton sells the second slap better than 90% of guys sell a punch.

Masters and Lashley face off and it makes me sad. Masters no longer works for a major promotion and Lashley is TNA World Champion. No justice in the world.

Anyone else really love Lashley's overhead Belly to Belly suplexes?

LOL Kane chokeslams Lashley while he's on the apron and hasn't even been tagged in. HBK pins and he is out of here! Liked how Masters kicked Lashley's foot away so he couldn't put it on the ropes given how close he was. Small thing that 99% of people wouldn't notice but I saw it and loved it because I'm an uber wrestling geek .

:lmao the commentators going at it verbally is more interesting than some of the in ring stuff . Tazz and Styles go at it like they legit want to kill each other. Lawler tries to be witty and fails miserably.

Batista finally gets a tag and despite being injured, manages to turn the tide and eliminate Kane!

CHOKESLAM FROM BIG SHOW~! BATISTA KICKS OUT!!!

Kane hasn't left yet. Show takes out everyone on the apron, then they land a double chokeslam on Batista! The World Heavyweight Champion is eliminated!!!

Big Show Vs The World takes place which is always :mark:. Totally murders Rey at one point:










Then everyone gangs up on the giant and hit their finishers... TWICE. Except for Orton. WHY DOES NOBODY TRY TO BREAK UP PINS?!?! I still fucking hate that about elimination matches.

FALL AWAY SLAM ON THE FLOOR~!

Yawn, Carlito with a rest hold. HE GETS CLOTHESLINED STRAIGHT TO FUCKING HELL :mark:. JBL is on fire! Meanwhile HBK is dead on the outside after that Fall Away Slam lol. Seriously. He's just LAYING THERE. Not moving. Nothing :lmao.

Masters gets eliminated, and now it's a 3 on 1 situation for poor old HBK who is STILL DEAD on the floor :lmao.

SWEET CHIN MUSIC TO MYSTERIO~!

SWEET CHIN MUSIC TO ORTON SECONDS LATER~!

Orton Vs HBK one more time!

WE WANT TAKER chants :mark:. 

HBK mounts a big comeback, but both men are exhausted. JBL attempts to level Shawn with a chair, misses and gets taken out... but HBK turns around into an RKO!!! Orton is the sole survivor 3 years in a row, and Team Smackdown have won it!!!

All the SD guys come out to celebrate, and then...

BONG~!

THE RETURN OF THE UNDERTAKER!!!

I like how Orton is terrified and trying to get away but the SD guys have him on their shoulders and don't let him down for ages :lmao.

THE CASKET IS ON FIRE! THE CASKET IS ON FIRE AND THERE IS A HUMAN BEING IN THERE~!

The Undertaker emerges from a casket on fire, and he's out for fucking REVENGE. He's also sporting some bad ass stubble too :mark:.

UNDERTAKER SQUASHES THE ENTIRE SMACKDOWN ROSTER :lmao. If HHH did this he'd get shit on to no end. Undertaker does it and it's the greatest thing ever. And I'm ok with that .

So, the match. The match is good. A ton of fun. Probably not what it SHOULD have been, had Batista not been injured a couple of weeks prior and Eddie Guerrero didn't pass away (  ), but they worked a good match regardless. Carlito sucked balls but at least he took a killer Clothesline from Hell. Orton surviving one more time was cool, and nice to see it start with him and HBK and end with him and HBK too. Undertaker return at the end was just icing on the cake. Delicious chocolate icing that tastes better than the actual cake. Not to say the cake isn't nice because it is, but damn, that icing just makes it a whole lot better. I'm hungry.

*Rating: ***1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 3*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 3.5*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FUCK. I FAILED THE PPV/MATCH. FUCK THAT. 

Surprised you didn't go **** for the Team Raw vs Team SD match. Or that you didn't go lower on the (AWESOME) LMS match, given how you think of it as 'a pile of shit'. Or that you didn't watch Benoit/Booker, you kinda missed out (FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT NO THEIR ARMAGEDDON MATCH THOUGH) . So No Mercy next, right?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Next is No Mercy, then Armageddon, then ending with Vengeance. Hoping Vengeance holds up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for the recs Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

:lmao just found a text document with my last ramble on Flair/HHH LMS. Amazing how similar they are :lmao.



Spoiler: first hhh/flair LMS



So decided to watch Flair/HHH LMS to see if I "get it" this time or not.

Damn, how SMOKING FAP FAP FAP HOT does LILLIAN look on this show?










"I THINK FLAIR JUST LANDED ON HIS KENDO STICK!" Poor Flair's "kendo stick" .

HHH is screwing Flair on live PPV! And Flair is bleeding!

"COME ON FLAIR. GET UP YOU OLD BASTARD!"

PENIS CLAW~!

3 Announce Tables (Raw, SD and Spanish)... and the poor Spanish announce table still gets destroyed :lmao.

:lmao Flair's attack on HHH's penis is kinda awesome. I'LL FILL IN FOR HHH, STEPH!!!

VAMPIRE FLAIR~!

:lmao at Lawler: "YOU CAN'T STAND UP IF YOU DON'T HAVE LEGS!"

Fuck me, that shot to the head of Flair with the steel steps was BRUTAL. Even with the replay clearly showing Flair blocking it with his hands, it still looks sick!

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up!

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up!

PEDIGREE~!

FLAIR GETS UP!!!

SLEDGEHAMMER~!

And Flair is dead.

Match is good, not gonna deny that... but better than their cage? LOLNO. Close to their cage? LOLNO. Their cage is on a whole other level compared to this. In fact a lot of this felt like a poor version of their cage match, with them doing similar spots here and there. I probably liked the match more on this watch than I have in the past, and it IS good no doubt, but I'll never understand the greatness and I legitimately don't understand ANYONE putting this on the level of their cage and certainly not above it. THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE? 

***1/4





Spoiler: second hhh/flair LMS



*Ric Flair Vs Triple H - Last Man Standing Match*

Bah. They had a fucking EPIC match at Taboo Tuesday. One of the best cage matches ever. And then they go on to have this match. And it's a pile of shite. I know because I watched it not too long ago. I was hoping it would be great and somehow I'd just not "got it" before. Nope. Still sucked. Expecting it to still suck this time around. But I'm gonna watch it anyway just to piss off all the people who for some reason think it's something other than shit . I'm nice like that .

Lillian looks smoking hot. FAP.

:lmao HHH attacks Flair on his way to the ring and Flair already looks out on his feet :lmao.

HHH burries the IC title by taking it off of Flair and launching it out of the ring. This match isn't even for the title, yet the cage match was? Well I guess given the result of this match they didn't want to put the belt on HHH.

KENDO STICK~! Flair hits HHH a few times with it... then drops it in favour of CHOPS~! :lmao

A couple of suplexes later and THE GAME is in control... wait, WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? :lmao










HHH HAS A SCREWDRIVER~! HE'S SCREWING THE NATURE BOY~! HE'S SCREWING FLAIR SO HARD HE'S BLEEDING~!

MISSED KNEE DROP~! FLAIR SELLS IT ANYWAY~! :lmao

ANOTHER MISSED KNEE DROP~! FLAIR SELLS THAT ONE TOO~! :lmao

Some guys completely no sell shit, but Flair sells shit that doesn't even connect! GOAT.

"COME ON FLAIR. GET UP YOU OLD BASTARD. STAY DOWN OR I'LL PUT YOU DOWN FOR GOOD." Fucks sake HHH, make your mind up...

Flair grabs HHH's balls! TESTICULAR CLAW~! Meh, was better in the cage match than here. Everything was better in the cage match than here though :side:.

HHH grabs a chair... then puts it down and punches Flair in the face instead. Which gives Flair a second wind. I know the feeling. When I get punched in the face repeatedly I too get my second wind...

Is Flair a vampire? I ask because he's kinda obsessed with blood, and he does a lot of biting in this match too :side:. Wait, no, he can't be, otherwise he wouldn't look like a 90 year old man nowadays .

Honestly this match has kinda bored me so far, right up until FLAIR makes a comeback and begins to maul HHH's legs and testicles. HHH on offence is just rarely a thing of beauty and the LMS rules don't typically make a match good, it's what the guys in the match DO with the rules. Here it was just HHH hitting a move, waiting for the count, hitting a move, waiting for the count etc. Flair on the other hand is more about trying to destroy HHH's legs rather than hitting random shit in hopes of it knocking him out long enough.

Fucks sake. HHH, who just had his legs mauled for a couple of minutes and is limping BAD... decides to go to the outside, pick up the "heavy" steel steps, throw them into the ring, pick them up and RUN INTO FLAIR with them. TWICE. Thankfully the second time fails and Flair turns it around on him... but still. WHY EVEN TRY THAT AT ALL? When my knee is giving me problems I try and avoid doing shit that involved me RUNNING or LIFTING HEAVY OBJECTS or... wait, actually that sounds like me when my knee is fine. MY POINT STILL STANDS THOUGH.

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up.

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up. Gives HHH the finger :mark:.

:lmao worst corner punches every by HHH. OOOOOO UUUUUHHHH OOOOOO UHHHHH. Those are the noises he makes :lmao.

PEDIGREE~!

Flair gets up. OAP Flair, who has been busted open badly and beaten up most of this match... is making HHH's finisher look like shit :lmao.

Sledgehammer to the back and it's done with.

Match overall isn't total garbage, that I'll admit. But it doesn't even enter the same stratosphere as the Cage match. Has a bunch of flaws (HHH on offence...) but also has some great moments and FLAIR being FLAIR.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You NO'd a CHRIS BENOIT match? Da fuq is wrong with you? :lmao

Show is rated faaaaaaar too low imo. The opener, the main event and the LMS are all very good. Divas match ain't too bad, WWE Title match is poor and GM vs GM can fuck off.

Lashley was not a last minute addition in Eddie's place, it was actually Orton who was added in Eddie's place after his death. It was also random as they had Raw in UK and Orton was randomly with the rest of the team outside the arena with no explanation - wearing short sleeve clothes even though it was COLD AS FUCK. Original plan for Randal was to have a Buried Alive match with Taker I think.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Next is No Mercy, then Armageddon, then ending with Vengeance. Hoping Vengeance holds up.


No Mercy is a huge pile of mediocrity with a bunch of good matches in between (JBL/Mysterio, Batista/Eddie and Taker/Ortons especially being the standouts).

Armageddon is pretty good. Taker/Orton HIAC is fucking awesome (despite a semi-wrong outcome imho), Benoit/Booker is really good (do NOT NO it, you shouldn't have NO'ed SVS either btw), as is JBL/Hardy, MNM/Mexicools is solid, and I believe Kash/Juventud is very selling-driven as well iirc.

Are you one of those who turned their backs on Angle/Michaels II? Because that might be the dealbreaker that'll divide your opinion for Vengeance being either awesome or just good. I can tell you however that Batista/H HIAC is fucking incredible imo and you'll surely enjoy Kane/Edge too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Really? Could have sworn Lashley was the Eddie replacement lol. Oh well.

And yes, it was bloody cold that night for Raw .



ATF said:


> Are you one of those who turned their backs on Angle/Michaels II? Because that might be the dealbreaker that'll divide your opinion for this show being either awesome or just good. I can tell you however that Batista/H HIAC is fucking incredible imo and you'll surely enjoy Kane/Edge too.


I haven't seen Angle/HBK II in YEARS, but last watch I still loved it. Aside from the DUMB AS FUCK finish :lmao. HIAC I'll likely still adore, and I've always been a fan of the rest of the card too. But like I said, it's been years. So fuck knows .

I went higher on Angle/HBK WM on last watch though so there is hope .


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

JBL vs Matt Hardy from Armageddon 05 is superb as is the HIAC. I was expecting more from the SD vs RAW tag match on that show tbh, you've got Mysterio (and BATISTA, he's fine) on one side and Show/Kane on the other, all the ingredients to produce a swell match with an awesome FIP segment. And we get a mere ** match at best.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, I praised JBL/Hardy up there too and it totally deserves it. It's very reminiscent of Edge/Hardy from SummerSlam that year, arguably even better. JBL PUNCHING HARDY TO DEATH~!

Btw Cal, when do you have those 1999/End of the Year videos done?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Thankfully, Joey Styles put that big meanie JBL in his place. :jbl-THIS FACE IS PUNCHABLE


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably gonna be another week before the first 1999 vid goes out. Still editing. It's repetitive thanks to the effects I'm using so I tend to get bored easily .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Randy Orton Vs Edge - WWE Raw Dec 13th 2004

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k35zwro2FEiCjJ8obJY


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Great!

Finally gotten back to watching WWF 1997. About to enter September and Ground Zero shouldn't be too far away. Never seen HBK/Undertaker part one so it'll be something new. Then it's on to the first ever HIAC, The Rock making his presence, Montreal Screwjob and the Attitude Era in full force. :mark:


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

Anything in particular that everyone is looking forward to on the PPV card tonight? Most of the card interests me, with most anticipation being for Ambrose/Rollins. I am actually looking forward to Rusev/Swagger. I liked Big E/Rusev a bit at MITB, so that gives me hope that this affair could go well tonight. Tag title match was second best on the card at MITB for me, so here's hoping these two teams knock it out again. Sheamus being in the IC title battle royal makes little sense to me since he's US champ, but whatever.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Oh and bad news for all Lana/Rusev fans (including myself): apparently there are rumors that, with the recent plane tragedy in Ukraine and controversy with Vladimir Putin, they want to drop the ball with Lana and Rusev. Kinda what happened with Hassan in 2005.


Maybe he'll tap to Swaggie tonight :lel


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Pretty sure Ambrose/Rollins is the main attraction to this PPV, even if, if the WWE has anything remotely close to a brain, it won't have a decisive ending tonight.

But I'm pretty sure that Swagger/Rusev is holding everyone's interest as well. Including mine. Considering both Big E/Rusev matches (including the super fun Payback match) delievered, and those matches were with Big E, and also considering Rusev failed to have a bad short match with R-Truth (as their ER match was fun imo) or a bad long match with Roman Reigns, and considering Jack Swagger is a much better worker than everyone Rusev's had a match against (be it R-Truth, Kofi Kingston, Roman Reigns or Big E), this should be a good match for sure. Also helps that this had, not counting Ambrose/Rollins of course, easily the best build up out of the card too.

Usos/Wyatts 2 out of 3 falls if booked right could top MITB too.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Looking forward to everything bar Cameron-Naomi tonight.

Just watched Brock-Taker HIAC, amazing match. Would go ***** for it. Has there ever been a better performance from a manager than Heyman in this match?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Ryan193 said:


> Looking forward to everything bar Cameron-Naomi tonight.
> 
> Just watched Brock-Taker HIAC, amazing match. Would go ***** for it. Has there ever been a better performance from a manager than Heyman in this match?



I agree that No Mercy 2002 was Heyman's finest hour as a manager, a truly amazing performance, but I think Heenan has had a few that I'd put above it. I can't decide what I enjoy more, Heenan GOATing on color commentary like during the Flair/Perfect Loser Leaves Town match (my pick for greatest color commentary ever done on a match) or Heenan bumping around and just being a total weasel at ringside as a manager. Either way, you're winning.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Quite literally EVERY match interests me on tonight's main card. Not sure how you can say anything bad about what they've put together in 3 weeks for a definite B/C show.

By the way, if you guys haven't seen Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, do so ASAP. Incredible movie. Just don't see tonight cause ya know, Battleground.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I agree that No Mercy 2002 was Heyman's finest hour as a manager, a truly amazing performance, but I think Heenan has had a few that I'd put above it. I can't decide what I enjoy more, Heenan GOATing on color commentary like during the Flair/Perfect Loser Leaves Town match (my pick for greatest color commentary ever done on a match) or Heenan bumping around and just being a total weasel at ringside as a manager. Either way, you're winning.


Heenan's commentary for Flair winning the Rumble is pretty amazing as well. I watched the entire show and it was pretty great listening to him talking about the match and complainMing that he needed to talk to Ric Flair who was in the back but Gorilla wouldn't let him leave. Then his reaction to Flair at #3 and winning anyway was also great. I prefer Heenan doing commentary myself, particularly when he does it for his own guys. I have a lot more memories of him saying absurd, hilarious, and sometimes true things as a heel on commentary than I do of him being ringside. 

That being said Heenan might have my vote for worst commentary for when the NWO started as he said before Hogan turned, "Who's side is he on?" It could be that it just seems like he gave it away when looking back and that live it was as shocking as ever and you just ignored what he said. I'm not sure because I was too young to really remember the moment and I found out about it the next night on Nitro anyway. His rant on Hogan after he turned was pretty amazing because of all the history they had and it was great to hear him say that he was right about Hogan being a piece of shit all along.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Quite literally EVERY match interests me on tonight's main card. Not sure how you can say anything bad about what they've put together in 3 weeks for a definite B/C show.
> 
> By the way, if you guys haven't seen Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, do so ASAP. Incredible movie. Just don't see tonight cause ya know, Battleground.



I definitely cosign this. I took my girl to see Dawn of the Planet of the Apes last night and we both loved it. Even better than Rise which I thought was pretty good in it's own right. Andy Serkis should win a lifetime achievement Oscar for his work some day, he's just been the driving force/soul behind so many incredible CGI characters over the years. Pretty much any movie that comes out that has Serkis attached to it I go and see, he's reached that level with me.



TaylorFitz said:


> Heenan's commentary for Flair winning the Rumble is pretty amazing as well. I watched the entire show and it was pretty great listening to him talking about the match and complainMing that he needed to talk to Ric Flair who was in the back but Gorilla wouldn't let him leave. Then his reaction to Flair at #3 and winning anyway was also great. I prefer Heenan doing commentary myself, particularly when he does it for his own guys. I have a lot more memories of him saying absurd, hilarious, and sometimes true things as a heel on commentary than I do of him being ringside.
> 
> That being said Heenan might have my vote for worst commentary for when the NWO started as he said before Hogan turned, "Who's side is he on?" It could be that it just seems like he gave it away when looking back and that live it was as shocking as ever and you just ignored what he said. I'm not sure because I was too young to really remember the moment and I found out about it the next night on Nitro anyway. His rant on Hogan after he turned was pretty amazing because of all the history they had and it was great to hear him say that he was right about Hogan being a piece of shit all along.



I think I will have to agree with you on Heenans commentary for the Rumble. That's another incredible, all time great performance. He's also AMAZING doing battle with Roddy Piper for the Mr. Perfect/Bret Hart match at Summerslam 1991. Those two are just machine gun quick with their digs and one liners. You're right, Heenan was at his best on commentary when one of his "guys" was in the ring. It's such a shame that Heenan left WWE right when they had brought in JR. We only got a few cards with them together (KotR 1993 is one) but man, how great would it have been if we could have just had a straight Heenan/JR booth for years and years.

I also always loved the interactions Heenan would have with Gene Okerlund on backstage interviews. Those two had fabulous chemistry together, and Gene always brought the best out of Heenan.


I just watched this Jay Briscoe/Samoa Joe cage match from ROH. Absolutely incredible. This makes two amazing cage matches (the other being Jacobs/Whitmer) that I've seen in two days where I was left slack jawed at the greatness. Never had seen either before.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I just watched this Jay Briscoe/Samoa Joe cage match from ROH. Absolutely incredible. This makes two amazing cage matches (the other being Jacobs/Whitmer) that I've seen in two days where I was left slack jawed at the greatness. Never had seen either before.


Just finished Joe vs. Angle I and Joe vs. Ki. Needed something to fill the time for BG so thanks for the recommendation. I've seen the cage match many times and it's something else.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did somebody really say that the Sheamus/Cesaro matches were mediocre? They had one bad Smackdown match, but everything else was piff.

EDIT: Yeah, that was better than Hollywood Blondes vs. Flair/Arn


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did somebody really say that the Sheamus/Cesaro matches were mediocre? They had one bad Smackdown match, but everything else was piff.


Their match on Main Event last year was GREAT. Everything they did this year was pretty good, but below what I would expect out of them. I wouldn't give any of their 2014 matches above ***1/2.

Wyatt's/Usos 2/3 Falls match was really good. Way better than I thought it would be be. No idea why the Usos won though, doesn't make sense tbh. Either way, that was fantastic ****3/4*

Seth vs Dean up next :mark: :mark:


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

First two falls weren't anything special, 3rd fall was absolutely awesome though.

Probably go ***3/4.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I only saw the last few mins of Wyatts/Usos but it looked really awesome, chatbox was spamming the :sodone smilie so it must have been awesome.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Color me shocked at that result. Ending to the 2nd fall really pissed me off but otherwise really good match. Thought it was never gonna end. Haha


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Disappointed we wont get to see Rollins-Ambrose but it makes sense to hold off until Summerslam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Color me shocked at that result. Ending to the 2nd fall really pissed me off but otherwise really good match. Thought it was never gonna end. Haha


Oh totally that second fall was the drizzling shirts. Harpers shoulder obviously wasn't even on the mat. 

Really WWE? No Seth vs Dean tonight? You couldn't even give us a prolonged brawl backstage? That better not be the end of things for tonight, I'll be upset.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Oh totally that second fall was the drizzling shirts. Harpers shoulder obviously wasn't even on the mat.
> 
> Really WWE? No Seth vs Dean tonight? You couldn't even give us a prolonged brawl backstage? That better not be the end of things for tonight, I'll be upset.


Rollins will attempt to cash in after the main event and Ambrose will 'sneak' back into the arena and cost him.

Fairly sure that's what will happen.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

The match is gonna happen tonight brehs, stop falling for it :lol


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Decent for WWE diva standards

**1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

AJ vs. Paige blew chunks until the black widow segment. Disappointing lack of effort considering the talent both girls have. Whenever Dean vs. Seth happens (which won't be tonight) it's gonna be a doozy. Non sanctioned at summerslam???


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

That Divas match was AWFUL. Off to Botchamania for that tomorrow considering the amount of calling moves that was audible, Paige rooting for AJ, and the botches. No more Paige please.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm so happy WWE chose not to chop Rusevs balls off because of the recent events in Ukraine. Having Lana come out and cut that promo was just great, now let's see Swagger kick the shit out of him


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

So ummm, I heard the tag match was great. Is it true?


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Well that was a let down


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

sharkboy22 said:


> So ummm, I heard the tag match was great. Is it true?


I gave it ***3/4, so yea I'd say it's really good. First 2 falls are nothing special, but man they tore shit up for the last 7 minutes or so during the 3rd and final fall.

Swagger/Rusev was good but also underwhelming as I expected more. Although seeing as this feud looks like it's going to Summerslam, I can understand them not blowing their load here. I'd give it ***.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually thought that was very good. Rusev sold the ankle really well, Swagger's comeback was heated, and it left me wanting more. Most importantly, I actually cared about the winner. These two need a flag match at Summerslam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I actually thought that was very good. Rusev sold the ankle really well, Swagger's comeback was heated, and it left me wanting more. Most importantly, I actually cared about the winner. These two need a flag match at Summerslam.


Lol they could do a spin on an "I Quit" match, where instead of forcing your opponent to say I Quit, they force them to admit which country is superior haha. "Say it, say USA is #1" :lmao


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

**1/2 for Swagger=Rusev. Could have been so much more and hopefully will be at Summerslam.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm officially head over heels in love with Dean Ambrose. He's the best thing WWE has done in I don't know how long. Dean 4 prez. Dean shouldn't even have wrestling matches anymore, his gimmick should just be wildly attacking people and getting thrown out of buildings.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ambrose 3:16, brotha.


That's why I laugh at people who claim Ambrose is being booked like shit and will be left behind Rollins and Reigns on this forum.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cannot wait til Summerslam for Ambrose-Rollins :mark:

Ambrose wins there, Rollins wins at NOC and Ambrose wins the rubber inside the cell at HIAC. Book it.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryan193 said:


> Cannot wait til Summerslam for Ambrose-Rollins :mark:
> 
> Ambrose wins there, Rollins wins at NOC and Ambrose wins the rubber inside the cell at HIAC. Book it.


Condom on a pole in Hell in the Cell match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well nobody can say they expected that. But I liked it. Not even close to their NXT match though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The fuck was that? Jericho puts EVERYONE over...


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Glad Jericho won, decent match as well.

***1/2.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Well nobody can say they expected that. But I liked it. Not even close to their NXT match though.


I actually did expect it. And it was smart. Everyone knows Jericho comes back to put over young stars. Having Bray beat Jericho in their first match wouldn't give any sort of rub to Bray. It wouldn't help him at all. Having Jericho win both restores his credibility after the Fandango fiasco at WM 29 and also makes it so that when Bray does eventually beat Chris, it means something. I feel this was a smart booking decision, personally. 

As for the match, I'd give it ***. Something tells me they were intentionally holding back, so that they can go all out at Summerslam. I got the same vibe with the Swagher/Rusev match. Even so, I expected this to be better. They can hold some stuff back for Summerslam and still put on a better match than that. I was hoping Jericho would hard way Bray so we could get a little color, but seeing how the match went it wasn't needed and wouldn't have added anything to it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

GOD DAMMIT! And that crowd went insane after Ziggler eliminated Sheamus. What a damn shame!


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

*** 

Just for Sandow's shorts. And Heath Slater.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

NOOOOOOOOOOO. ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS????!!! WWE HOW CAN YOU COCK TEASE ME LIKE THAT? 

Seriously, that nearly killed me. I see my man Ziggler winning the battle Royal, and against all odds, and fucking Miz has to ruin it. That's like thinking you are getting a million dollars as a present and you open to the box and all there is is a steaming turd. Ugh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Been a ridiculous amount of botches tonight. Sheamus and Ziggler fucked up like 3 times. Haha. Slater eliminating Cesaro was another big shock.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

What the fuck are they doing with Cesaro lirl.

I hope this ends with Ziggler beating Miz for the IC title, but it's Ziggler, so I doubt it happens and that doesn't make me happy.


----------



## FoundLacking (Mar 29, 2014)

RatedR10 said:


> What the fuck are they doing with Cesaro lirl.
> 
> I hope this ends with Ziggler beating Miz for the IC title, but it's Ziggler, so I doubt it happens and that doesn't make me happy.


Ultimately the IC title doesn't mean much any more either way. I just hope this is a sign that they'll stop using Ziggler as a baby face jobber.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Ryan193 said:


> Glad Jericho won, decent match as well.
> 
> ***1/2.


That match was boring as fuck. Bray is really not good in the ring. I've accepted that he's not capable of great matches (right...Bryan. lol) but he could at least have passable matches. Right winner though. Gotta build Jericho up to lose at SummerSlam.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Apparently Sheamus and Miz are due to feud, Sheamus will probably unify the belts and face BNB for them when he returns.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

This is precisely why I don't consider Cena to be that great of a "big time player". His matches have fallen into "Kurt Angle territory" where the only story he can tell is hitting multiple finishers and hoping that the moves tell the story. It's just not good wrestling. People outside of this thread criticize Cena's in-ring work for many wrong reasons, but what I'm pointing out may honestly be a bigger problem than anything else people name.

For so long, we were accustomed to thinking that Cena was one of the best big time wrestlers in company history. But in the past couple years where guys like Punk, Bryan, Sheamus, The Shield, and the Wyatts have been given those big match opportunities, it's clear as day that Cena is probably not even a top 20 main event in-ring talent in company history.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Thought the main event was decent. A few of the near falls with Reigns had me believing he might win. ***1/2.

Decent filler show, Summerslam is shaping up nicely.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Not even doing my usual detailed review. This ppv was completely skippable outside of the opener. They spammed the fuck out of nearfalls in that main event. Battle royal was fun but I'm pretty sure everyone hates that finish and I saw it coming a while away. Still confused as to what Cesaro is doing and why the Usos retained. They'll probably drop the belts tomorrow night on RAW like some TNA shit. Bray Wyatt lost. That was weird. No Rollins cash in and no Lesnar. We'll see what happens tomorrow night...


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Tonight was clearly a B-show. Anyone who thinks logically and knows Jericho came back for a THREE MONTH program figured he wins the first so that Wyatt can win the two big ones (SummerSlam and the feud-ender at NOC.)

Tomorrow is the show I've been looking forward to. A repeat of Lesnar's return to attack Cena at the AAA. Fuck that match is going to kick all kinds of ass.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Main event was decent and better than I would've expected. But still no fun when you KNOW who wins and there's no suspense whatsoever. Kane got FU'd 3 times I think. :lol


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Reigns somewhat carried that.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The main event was a complete finisher fest but it was still better than I thought it would be, tbh. I lost count of how many AAs Cena hit and how many spears Reigns hit.

Ratings:
Usos/Wyatts: ***3/4
Paige/AJ: *1/2
Rusev/Swagger: **3/4
Jericho/Wyatt: ***
IC Title Battle Royal: NR (I hate rating battle royals)
Cena/Orton/Reigns/Kane: *** - ***1/4

Paige/AJ was surprisingly sloppy in a night that had a lot of botches. 

Sigh, WWE spoiled me with main event matches that featured Daniel Bryan and/or CM Punk that these recent string of main event matches aren't doing it for me.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Fourway main event was garbage. Wasn't expecting anything great, but the match never had any steam going for it, crowd didn't care for most of it (especially noticeable in those Cena/Reigns staredowns), and it just became finisher, someone breaks up the pin, finisher, someone breaks up the pin, rinse and repeat. A boring mess, might be worst main event of 2014 so far (either this or the Payback main event). I'd probably throw *-** at it.

Jericho/Wyatt was very disappointing. They just didn't click for some reason and having Jericho win like that... I suppose they should continue the feud, and after losing to Orton Jericho needed a fairly big win, and this was it. Not sure Wyatt could afford the loss though, and ultimately I would've liked a less decisive finish.

Rusev/Swagger wasn't as good as I thought it was going to be either, but I loved the ending. Kept Swagger looking strong as Rusev couldn't beat him like he's done others... he had to resort to a countout. Great way to keep the feud going.

AJ/Paige was a (hot) mess. 

The battle royal... well, I was happy to see Sandow on it after he seemed to disappear from the list of participants on wwe.com. Also pretty happy he wasn't the first eliminated. However, if there was any small chance I thought Sandow had of winning this, it was crushed when I saw him come out as another gimmick. Battle Royal was meh anyway, Ziggler eliminating Sheamus was kinda cool, and Miz stealing the win I'm okay with. Not sure how a Ziggler/Miz feud will be, but I'll keep my eyes peeled. Beats Miz/Sheamus anyway...

Usos/Wyatts was GREAT. The two teams just have that great chemistry. Unlike the main event, the nearfalls were actually awesome and got a great reception from the crowd. First fall was pretty abrupt and so was the second fall, but they went into the third fall extremely well and I had no idea who was going to win until the very end. Honestly with how it was going, I was half-expecting Harper to kick out of the double splash.  MOTN by far. ***3/4 for it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I get to see Ambrose and Rollins tear the house down LIVE :mark: :mark: :mark:

(Oh, and Cena vs. Brock)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Didn't see this uploaded, thought it may interest some people. 

Toshiaki Kawada vs TAJIRI (03.28.2007)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dammit WWE, FUCK YOU. If I had paid to see Battleground I would have been extremely PISSED at the fact Ambrose/Rollins didn't happen. Cunts. They took half of my idea and left the other half. I suggested they should do what HHH/Mankind did at Canadian Stampede. Have a match and then continue brawling everywhere afterwards. For some reason WWE thought it would be best to SKIP THE FUCKING MATCH part. It didn't even have to be some 20 minute epic, just a sub 10 minute fight ending in a DQ or double countout or whatever which leads to them continuing to fucking fight all over the arena until Rollins escapes. How WWE continue to manage to fuck up the most SIMPLE shit I'll never know. Wrestlers LOVE to shit on us internet "smarks" all the time, but you know what? Some of us legitimately COULD book a fucking show/feud better than whoever the fuck is doing it now. And hell if some of us had proper wrestling training we could likely put together a fucking better match than half the guys making stupid amounts of money in WWE and TNA right now.

SummerSlam is gonna need to be something fucking epic to make up for this. Cena/Brock and an ACTUAL Ambrose/Rollins match will do nicely. Just DON'T FUCK IT UP.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> Didn't see this uploaded, thought it may interest some people.
> 
> Toshiaki Kawada vs TAJIRI (03.28.2007)


I'll have to get on that tomorrow afternoon. Sounds great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another one i didn't see online:

KENTA & Naomichi Marufuji vs WILD 2 (Morishima & Rikio) (NOAH 07.16.2006)



Really good match. Was impressed by Morishoma here.


----------



## Daniel97 (Jun 20, 2011)

Usos/Wyatts - ****1/4 not quite sure if the 2/3 falls stip was needed

Jericho/Wyatt - **3/4
Fatal 4 Way - **1/2
AJ/Paige - ** nice effort but delivery could have been better

Decent show. Not as bad as being made out to be.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

*Battleground 2014:*
Fandango/Rose - DUD
Naomi/Cameron - 1/2*
----------------------
Usos/Wyatts - ***3/4
AJ/Paige - **
Swagger/Rusev - ***
Jericho/Wyatt - **1/2
Battle Royal - **3/4
Fatal 4-Way - ***

The pre-show matches sucked, obviously, though Naomi/Cameron was actually not the Wrestlecrap fest I thought it was going to be either. Usos/Wyatts was MOTN by far, up there with their MITB match, thanks in great part to the fucking epic 3rd fall. AJ/Paige was a hell of a dissapointment, super sloppy and just lazy until the end, but at the same time I expected it since, much like almost the entire card, they were surely holding back for SummerSlam. Swagger/Rusev was also a letdown held back by SummerSlam's shadow, however it was still a good match with nice intensity and selling along the way. Jericho/Wyatt was the biggest example of SummerSlam's shadow hurting this card, as not only did they not click all that well despite decent action along the way, but the outcome was kinda of a shocker, even if it was just to set up Bray's win at SummerSlam and NOC (they can't possibly make Bray look like a bitch anymore after the Cena feud, let alone with the one guy who puts over almost everyone), and it didn't came an inch close to the NXT match last year. The Battle Royal was alright, not as good as the WM one (predictable) but still good - dat teaser at the end with Ziggler tho. The Fatal 4-Way was much better than I ever thought was going to be, despite it clocking an overall TEN finishers. Yes, TEN FUCKING FINISHERS were hit in this match. 4 Spears, 3 AA's, 2 Chokeslams and 1 RKO. And that's not even counting the secondary finishers (STF and Superman Punch if the latter counts as a finisher).

The Ambrose/Rollins stuff and Usos/Wyatts was the only stuff truly worth watching out of this show. Between this and Payback, the worst PPV of the year so far slot is very interchangeable, despite Payback probably taking it due to this having bigger consistency.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

With the impending return of Lesnar/Heyman, the great promo the night after Mania:


----------



## Taroostyles (Apr 1, 2007)

What I watched from battleground

Usos/Wyatt's-****
Bray/Jericho-***
4 Way-***1/2


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

Meh show. I really liked the Ambrose/Rollins stuff - It accomplished so much - it definitely put over the anger between them and makes the eventual match a bigger deal. I'm sure there were Ambrose fans that weren't happy about not having a match, but as my girl Martha Stewart says "That's a *good* thing." Save it; it's the best thing going atm. The 3rd attack was a little much, but WWE always seems to prefer erring on that side, rather than leaving anything open to interpretation. Still though...

The IC Battle Royal was a lot of fun - wide open field, guys with good chemistry going at it - I love me some Battle Royal (w/ championship cheese on the line). Ziggler was horrendous, but then, he _is_ horrendous. Twice botched that Sunset Flip:lol C'mon man! That was like watching a monkey on a dog. Cesaro and Kofi was great, and a fun match overall.

Jericho/Wyatt - liked the booking, but the match was only so-so. Wasn't feeling it - was positive some color was gonna come from Wyatt. Ric shined him up like a pair of dress shoes for Chris and he doesn't exploit it?! Wasn't Jericho gonna get nuts? Oh, right - he overturned that rocking chair like a motherfucker.

2/3 Falls was underwhelming - didn't feel like it needed the stip, but was instead tacked in to spice up the usual formula. Not bad, not great. Sick boot.

Swagger/Rusev was...odd. Odd watching the crowd lose steam in Swagger by the minute, after a mediocre performance. USA is OAF, though. Hope the rematch is better.

Fatal 4-Way - Awful. Just an uninspiring match from start to finish. The fucking running dropkick from Reign needs to stop - I see so much crying about Mysterio throwing opponents into a 619 position, but holy shit - all 3 guys get one back-2-back-2-back? And _then_ the breakaway barricade? fpalm Hotshot more.

I don't want to get too deep on the Reigns critique, but the obvious lack of seasoning is grating on me - his weak stomps on Kane w/Cena were almost as bad as him not straining/flexing during his "power out" of the chokeslam. They're little things, but it's the same problem I had with Cena - he's not fucking ready, period. You know it's bad when even his biggest fans are glad he didn't win:lmaowho does that?

Cena looking over to make sure someone was coming to break up the pin was pretty funny though - he has to like, pick his head off the mat and look over the shoulder of the guy covering him. Nice chokeslam bump recovery:cena2


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cal, as you have Nitro '99. Could you upload a Sting entrance, where he comes out to 'Seek and Destroy' (after he turned heel)?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Uhhhh sure lol. When did he turn heel?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Uhhhh sure lol. When did he turn heel?


He turned heel at Fall Brawl.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I think Battleground, minus the 2/3 Falls tag, can be summed up as one giant cock tease for Summerslam, only they didn't even tease it properly and all the fans are left feeling wholly unsatisfied. Hopefully this feeling goes away the closer we get to Summerslam, when we realize at the very least we are getting 2 great matches in Ambrose/Rollins and Cena/Brock. 

I like Reigns, I really really do. But at some point he needs to start showing some creativity in his work. I'm fine with his signature moves (Spear, Superman punch, apron drop kick) but I want to see more from him, particularly from a selling standpoint.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I think Battleground, minus the 2/3 Falls tag, can be summed up as one giant cock tease for Summerslam, only they didn't even tease it properly and all the fans are left feeling wholly unsatisfied. Hopefully this feeling goes away the closer we get to Summerslam, when we realize at the very least we are getting 2 great matches in Ambrose/Rollins and Cena/Brock.
> 
> I like Reigns, I really really do. But at some point he needs to start showing some creativity in his work. I'm fine with his signature moves (Spear, Superman punch, apron drop kick) but I want to see more from him, particularly from a selling standpoint.


I'm already starting to worry about Reigns in the main event. They're doing a good job of making him look great but I would be lying if I said I was confident that he could go out there and have a great singles match. He's someone that I can easily see the crowd on turning on very quickly if he doesn't kick ass once he starts being in main event singles matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not in the Reigns hate bandwagon for sure and I really want to like him, if for the fact alone that he played such an important role in some of the best matches of the last few years (almost every single of the Shield's best had Reigns in it, and playing a big role. E.g: the near ***** classic against the Wyatts). However, it's becoming more and more evident that the guy isn't exactly going to differ in his schtick anytime soon. And sooner or later, it will just grow old and stale. Then again, we all said that about Bryan's Yes/No stuff and overness, and if anything, it has grown bigger and bigger overtime. But Roman Reigns is no Daniel Bryan, not even close.

Reigns has had around three good singles matches already - a decent one against Rusev, a good one against Punk and a great one against Bryan. Notice who was facing him in his sole great singles match yet. As a matter of fact, the three of them I would consider superior workers to Reigns, easily in the case of Bryan and even Punk. However, that's not to say Reigns didn't add to the matches and did bad, cause he didn't. He did play his part well in those matches and he clearly has a ton of potential. Which just makes it the more praying worthy that Reigns will get much better with time, and that he'll prove me that he will be worthy of beating Lesnar for the title at next year's WM because that's the inevitable. Or someone else if Rock/Lesnar II is in their books instead (God forbid us all).


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Just finished battleground 

Wyatts/Usos: ****
Rusev/Swagger: **1/4
Battle Royal: *
Jericho/Wyatt: **1/2
Main event: **


Worst ppv of the year.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

ATF said:


> I'm not in the Reigns hate bandwagon for sure and I really want to like him, if for the fact alone that he played such an important role in some of the best matches of the last few years (almost every single of the Shield's best had Reigns in it, and playing a big role. E.g: the near ***** classic against the Wyatts). However, it's becoming more and more evident that the guy isn't exactly going to differ in his schtick anytime soon. And sooner or later, it will just grow old and stale. Then again, we all said that about Bryan's Yes/No stuff and overness, and if anything, it has grown bigger and bigger overtime. But Roman Reigns is no Daniel Bryan, not even close.
> 
> Reigns has had around three good singles matches already - a decent one against Rusev, a good one against Punk and a great one against Bryan. Notice who was facing him in his sole great singles match yet. As a matter of fact, the three of them I would consider superior workers to Reigns, easily in the case of Bryan and even Punk. However, that's not to say Reigns didn't add to the matches and did bad, cause he didn't. He did play his part well in those matches and he clearly has a ton of potential. Which just makes it the more praying worthy that Reigns will get much better with time, and that he'll prove me that he will be worthy of beating Lesnar for the title at next year's WM because that's the inevitable. Or someone else if Rock/Lesnar II is in their books instead (God forbid us all).


There's a pretty big difference in working a tag match and a singles match. When the Shield turned face I was saying that Reigns might be the best hot tag in wrestling. And even when they were heels he was an amazing tag working. It's just that there is a transition into being a singles guy that he has to make and I'm worried he won't make it as quickly as he needs to.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

It's what I've been saying all along, Reigns isn't ready. He's had one good singles match against Bryan, and that's it. Match with Punk was garbage, the Henry matches were garbage, the Wyatt match was atrociously boring. The Rusev match wasn't anything good, although it might be his second best match. The guy needs a ton of work in the ring, and on he mic as well. He's mediocre at best right now. I don't think he'll be ready by WM31. 32 is a better bet and hopefully he starts showing signs of improvement. Otherwise, just put him in a tag team where he can shine in the hot tags and the limited amount of work he can do well.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> It's what I've been saying all along, Reigns isn't ready. He's had one good singles match against Bryan, and that's it. Match with Punk was garbage, the Henry matches were garbage, the Wyatt match was atrociously boring. The Rusev match wasn't anything good, although it might be his second best match. The guy needs a ton of work in the ring, and on he mic as well. He's mediocre at best right now. I don't think he'll be ready by WM31. 32 is a better bet and hopefully he starts showing signs of improvement. Otherwise, just put him in a tag team where he can shine in the hot tags and the limited amount of work he can do well.


I don't think they should put him in a tag team. No matter who he teams with, it won't be better than the Shield. He won't get any better tagging with someone. What he needs is to get put in the ring with someone like Bryan or Cesaro on every house show for 20 minute matches for a month or two. The only problem is Bryan is injured and they are both baby faces anyway.

Look, im not a pro wrestler so I can't say for certain it would work, but I've heard endless interview comments where guys say the only way to get better in the ring is by wrestling someone who is better than you. Shawn Michaels said getting put in tags against Arn and Tully made him 10 times better, Bret Hart said getting put in a feud with Dynamite Kid made him improve by leaps and bounds, CM Punk said getting in the ring with Eddie Guerrero made him realize all the stuff he needed to work on, etc. Etc. Reigns getting put in singles matches with Kane and a not particularly caring Orton isn't gonna make him noticeably improve (apparently those are the two guys he's been working with at house shows of late). 

That's kinda the problem with the current roster, there is no Deadman to test and help teach young up coming wrestlers, no Triple H, no Shawn Michaels, no Chris Benoit, no Eddie Guerrero, no Finlay, no Regal, and until recently no Jericho. Those guys all played a huge role during the 2000's helping get younger guys ready and make them better. Nowadays the only "vets" that work a full schedule are Orton, Cena, Kane, ADR, Sheamus, Bryan, and Cesaro, and with the exception of Bryan and Cesaro, I wouldnt describe any of those dudes as world class in the year 2014. Maybe that's why Hunter is bringing in older guys to help in NXT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

How about Flair/Steamboat with Andre as Ref:

*Ric Flair vs Ricky Steamboat (JCP '70s Films Vol. 11 1977) (Andre The Giant as special referee)*


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Usos/Wyatts was great. Again. Super hot third fall and the nearfalls didn't feel like overkill, they felt like two even teams taking each other's best shots in a feud ender. When are people gonna start talking about Luke Harper as a potential WotY candidate? Dude has been on an absolute tear recently and deserves all the praise in the world. Wonder what they'll do with him and Rowan now. They're way above being Bray's lackeys at this point so I thought a title reign would be the natural progression rather than using them to put over The Usos.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I don't think they should put him in a tag team. No matter who he teams with, it won't be better than the Shield. He won't get any better tagging with someone. What he needs is to get put in the ring with someone like Bryan or Cesaro on every house show for 20 minute matches for a month or two. The only problem is Bryan is injured and they are both baby faces anyway.


I only suggested tag teaming if he doesn't show any signs of improvement by, say, WM31, as a singles wrestler. In that case, then fuck his singles run and just make him a tag team wrestler, job him out, whatever. How they go about helping him improve, I don't care, as long as it happens. However, there's a shit ton of much better talent who they wouldn't have to wait on if they'd just push them like they're pushing Reigns.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I only suggested tag teaming if he doesn't show any signs of improvement by, say, WM31, as a singles wrestler. In that case, then fuck his singles run and just make him a tag team wrestler, job him out, whatever. How they go about helping him improve, I don't care, as long as it happens. However, there's a shit ton of much better talent who they wouldn't have to wait on if they'd just push them like they're pushing Reigns.


Reigns is a star in their eyes. He has the look and he gets the reactions. They're not going to slow his push because he isn't good enough in the ring.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Saint Dick said:


> Reigns is a star in their eyes. He has the look and he gets the reactions. They're not going to slow his push because he isn't good enough in the ring.


I know they won't do that but if the long term plan is him vs Cena or Lesnar at Wrestlemania it will not be a pretty site if they doesn't improve by then. You will be looking at a Cena/JBL or Cena/Rock II type of match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Still calling the Usos to lose the tag belts to Rowan & Harper tonight on RAW. They could give them a rematch because Harper's shoulder was up on the finish to the 2nd fall. It would make no sense to me at all for the Usos reign to continue. They have no heel team to feud with. They've already beaten RyBaxel. With Goldust & Stardust plus the newly found tandem of Big E & Kofi out there, the belts need to be on some heels. Who better than these two?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saint Dick said:


> Reigns is a star in their eyes. He has the look and he gets the reactions. They're not going to slow his push because he isn't good enough in the ring.


Well duh, of course they aren't. They haven't so far. As you said, he has the look and he gets the reactions (although you could argue the same about Ryback back in 2012-early 2013, and that didn't stop them). All I think might happen is he'll turn into Cena in regards to crowd reactions if he gets the title and Mania main event before he's ready.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lol at the Miz/Ziggler match. There's spot calling, and then there's this. Ziggler is trying his best to carry Miz through this, but Miz must have lost every bit of knowledge of wrestling he had during that hiatus.

EDIT: Ziggler selling that knee really well too. Use this as evidence that Ziggler is more than just a bumper. Don't use this as evidence of a well executed match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah there was some clear spot calling, but that was a damn fun match. That would've been perfectly fine for Summerslam if the title was actually on the line.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Reigns' moves ain't the problem, he could have zero set moves in his repertoire and still be able to have a good match through the use of storytelling.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Ziggler/Miz was fucking fun. Ziggler winning :mark:


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Ziggler/Miz was good. ***-***1/4 for it. Better than I thought it would be. Sandow/Bo was also better than it had any right being (not that it was "good", but for a 3 minute match was fun and about as good as it was going to be). 

The handicap matches sucked though.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

We're getting Cesaro vs. Ambrose tonight. :mark:


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

CESARO/DEAN man this could be really good you got Cesaro back in a showcase role against the current best babyface in wrestling who sells impact so well and both men are great with storytelling. If given time, this could be superb and finally put Cesaro on track


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Thank god Paige went official heel there. There next match should be much better because of it. Oh and that divas tag match was much better than what AJ/Paige put together last night.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

HHH is so fucking great :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Kofi is finally going to turn?

I am not ashamed in saying that I actually like this Bella/Steph feud.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ziggler/Miz was decent. Was shit pre-commercial break, pretty good after it. 

Hunter and Steph are gold.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

THE NATION :mark: 

This Raw has been awesome outside of some blemishes like Flo rida


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm sold on Rusev. He got something that wasn't outright terrible against Khali, and more importantly, he sold his ankle. John Cena, take notes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kinda disappointed they're giving away Sheamus vs. Rusev tomorrow night on Main Event. That could've been a big time feud for the U.S. Title where Rusev wins it and turns it into the Russian Title.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Dean Ambrose is the new Daniel Bryan. Anti-authority face who's extremely over and whose shoulder is ALWAYS injured :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Heyman's promo got me so moist. So fuckin hyped for this. The rematch two years in the making!


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Heyman's promo got me so moist. So fuckin hyped for this. The rematch two years in the making!


I am hopeful it ends the right way with Brock Lesnar wining the WWE Championship for the first time since September 2003 against Kurt Angle. They can easily get Brock to Wrestlemania as Champion if the schedule looks like this.

Summerslam
Night of Champions
Survivor Series
Royal Rumble
Wrestlemania

Misses Hell in a Cell, TLC and maybe Elimination Chamber.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not only does Brock need to win, he should make Cena tap out. A track record of beating Triple H, crushing CM Punk, making a fool out of Big Show in one minute, CONQUERING THE STREAK, and doing the unthinkable of making Cena quit would put Brock over as the most dominant wrestler in history if he isn't already.


----------



## The Hardcore Show (Apr 13, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Not only does Brock need to win, he should make Cena tap out. A track record of beating Triple H, crushing CM Punk, making a fool out of Big Show in one minute, CONQUERING THE STREAK, and doing the unthinkable of making Cena quit would put Brock over as the most dominant wrestler in history if he isn't already.


This would be the time to do it but Cena's whole identity is his Never Give Up stuff which WWE will never risk.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Ambrose/Cesaro was good, obviously. 

Brock better fucking win.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm sold on Rusev. He got something that wasn't outright terrible against Khali, and more importantly, he sold his ankle. John Cena, take notes.


That's what I said on another forum. :lmao Him selling the ankle made him even more awesome than I already thought he was.

Heyman may have cut the promo of the year to hype that Lesnar/Cena match. THAT is how you sell a PPV.


----------



## ZEROVampire (Apr 27, 2014)

WWE BATTLEGROUND 2014

Kickoff: Fandango vs Adam Rose N/A

Kickoff: Cameron vs Naomi 1/4*

WWE Tag Team Championship - 2 out of 3 Falls Match
The Usos (c) vs The Wyatt Family (Luke Harper & Erick Rowan) ***1/2

WWE Diva's Championship
AJ Lee (c) vs Paige *

Rusev vs Jack Swagger *1/2

Seth Rollins vs Dean Ambrose N/A

Bray Wyatt vs Chris Jericho 1/2*

WWE Intercontinental Championship - Battle Royal 1/2*

WWE World Heavyweight Championship
John Cena (c) vs Randy Orton vs Kane vs Roman Reigns **1/4
*
Overall Grade: 2.75*
*
THIS IS THE WORST PPV OF THE YEAR*


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Bit by bit thoughts on the PPV:



Spoiler: Battleground ramble



- Tag championship is everything I really dislike about wrestling, Usos, & two/three falls matches. Harper & Rowan were even bad in this. How many recycled moves, spots, & dramatic bits can this company make happen between these four? Super DUD. I was hoping it would be fun, but oof. How could I when this got old by earlier this year. Usos took until the third fall to get offense in _(idk why it was worked that way..)_ and the first point of offense was not one, but two dives lmao. Says it all.

- Seth vs Dean not happening was the right move as we all knew it should be. Chuckled at the super flat way of doing it though. Instead of an extended brawl to warrant ultra heat on the angle it was done in a fluff 30 second bit backstage to immediately move it from the PPV & to build starting on RAW for SummerSlam. Why am I not surprised? Small potatoes I guess, but its funny how something hot can be done so cold. Whatever.

- Divas Championship second? Ha. WWE must have a formula for their PPVs to all look the same now. 8*D Sidenote: Frienemies bit is unbearable. Makes it even worse when the commentators don't even know what the term means by shouting "they're not friends". WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT WHORED OUT TERM IMPLIES? As for the match: DUD. No chemistry, bad story, & botches. Weren't there geeks out there who thought these two would kill it? This show is off to a rockin start. _(and when you include the pre-show matches...oh man)_

- Match I had the most interest in on this show & it delivered. Swagger vs Rusev was a blast. Unstoppable foreign baddie vs big hoss american. w/the pride of a nation allowing a natural aura to flow behind Swagger & an oldie but goodie heel heat mechanism supporting the Russians, it was easy to be enamored w/the all out fun this provided. Word going around is that WWE is really liking Swagger via this program & it shows. Not only did he not get squashed, not get made to submit, but he flat out looked super swell during the entire match. Great stuff like Zeb firing him up & the crowd urging him on to get back on the arpon and not quit while Rusev kept knocking him down. The brief point to the audience, followed by the driving knees in the corner which got the fans to count along. I hope he continues w/that for the remainder of this program. Patriot Lock was made to be a credible threat & Rusev sold it big time. Points for post match selling too. I always appreciate that. Loved the finish. Proper way to keep it all going. Swagger fell victim to circumstance. Rusev & Lana can boast they defeated America once again & Rusev's post match beatdown put it that much more over to get some remaining heat. Simple, effective, smart. The good shit is right here.

- Ok YES WWE decided to stretch it out. Ambrose vs Rollins segment ruled. Absolutely exactly what it needed to be. Awesome. I hope this isn't going to be peak of the show _(Swagger vs Rusev & Ambrose vs Rollins build)_ but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. You know what, doesn't even matter. That's all I wanted to see & I'm pleased.

- I don't have much to say about Bray vs Jericho. I was lukewarm once I noticed Jericho has zero left to give being an active worker since returning. It showed here. Yet, as the internet happens to be plagued, Bray will be blamed solely for why this match was bad. Nothing happens for about nine minutes then signature moves were traded until Jericho hit the codebreaker. That's all she wrote. Funny that Jericho wins a PPV match clean & it is against a guy who really could have used a nice clean win on PPV himself. But hey, we were damned to a bunch of awful comments if Bray would have won too, as far as Jericho always jobbing goes. 

- More Ambrose & Rollins fun? Yay. Dean came out of the trunk liked I hoped. Now I'm being spoiled.

- Battle Royal this far up on the card. It humors me. Why? I'm not sure. I guess b/c it was so irrelevant to me & then WWE tries to make it matter. If Sheamus wins then I suppose I can see justification. As if any of it matters w/card placement these days. Unless you're filler or main event. Ok, battle royal. Same ol stuff. Kofi continues to be pathetic, people get thrown over, one surprise elimination came: SLATER TOSSES OUT CESARO, & then WWE trolled fans once again w/Dolph having success. Miz wins. Ha. ok, then.

- Main event was fine. Actually for a match I had no real interest in or had much heat, it ended up working out. There wasn't too much of the bad multiman stuff here & it kept up w/all the stories build up to be around. Cena vs Reigns teases were fun & when Reigns got his hot streak going in the finishing stretch - it RULED. So yeah, really, I had no problems w/this. It was what it was. Felt effective to fit as a main event on a B-PPV. For something that was treated as the butt of the joke on this show, it was the next best _(actual)_ match on the night behind Swagger vs Rusev. How do you like that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Highly intrigued to see what they're gonna do with the rest of the Summerslam card. Orton vs. Reigns seems like a lock and maybe even as a #1 contender's match (ya know, if they even do those matches anymore). It's amazing to think that if they go with that, it'll be Reigns' first ever PPV singles match. Wow. It's even more amazing to think that if he were to win that match, there's a very small chance they could give us Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns at Night of Champions. Oh my. Seems like a possible WrestleMania 31 main event...


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Was going to come in here and ask if anything from Battleground was worth watching, Ive heard the USOS/Wyatt was good but I dont believe it, I think most just like the uso alot more than me. I caught most of the Battle Royal and most of Main event, didnt care for either and :lol @ WWE trolling us Ziggler fans once again. fpalm @ Cesaro's booking, have destroyed him.


I guess I'll check out Swagger/Rusev then


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Highly intrigued to see what they're gonna do with the rest of the Summerslam card. Orton vs. Reigns seems like a lock and maybe even as a #1 contender's match (ya know, if they even do those matches anymore). It's amazing to think that if they go with that, it'll be Reigns' first ever PPV singles match. Wow. It's even more amazing to think that if he were to win that match, there's a very small chance they could give us Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns at Night of Champions. Oh my. Seems like a possible WrestleMania 31 main event...


The ONLY reason I'd book that at NOC is if I know for sure that Rock or D-Bry would be available at WM31 to face Lesnar.

I really hope Brie next week shows the segment from last time Raw was in San Antonio as leverage and exposure on the Authority's hypocrisy.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Rock should not, at all, face Lesnar. If they're putting someone over Brock, it has to be a regular talent.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, Heyman's promo at the end of Raw was pure bliss. And it single handedly got me pumped up for Cena/Lesnar at SS. ALL HAIL THE CONQUERER, BAROCK LESSNAR :heyman3

Also, Ambrose/Cesaro was the expected awesomeness from the two of them, Miz/Ziggler was fun if shitty before the commercial, Paige finally went full blown heel and I won't have to worry about her and AJ holding back and boobteasing what an ACTUAL match between them would look like (looking at you Battleground), and Rusev got something watchable out of fucking Khali. And HHH bahried the internet. Everything else was just there, but whatever. Not a bad Raw really, certainly not last week's fuckery.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No Mercy 05 has begun! Looking forward to a whole 2 matches on the card. Yey! Even though I only consider one of them to be great. Always thought Eddie/Batista was solid but nothing that good tbh.

Thanks for the rep, Rah. I kinda wanna ban you now :side: .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

JBL/Mysterio is worth looking forward to as well imo. Everything else is Mediocre/Crap City, though.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You know what's funny about all of this? Me, the neighborhood dude that complains about 2005 actually *likes* these 2005 matches/PPVs more than Cal. I think there have even been Undertaker matches that I liked more than him.

I predict the casket match to get ****1/2, Eddie/Batista to get ***1/4, JBL/Rey ***, and at least three NOs.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Two of those NO's should be the Kennedy/Holly and Simon/Lashley squashes. God.

And speaking of Lashley, he tweeted that the Kofi/Big E/Woods team up on Raw was a copy of his stable with MVP and Kenny King :lol And there are a few guys that said he's not terrible at all and that they'd take him 10 times before Cena. Other than his sole truly great singles match, AGAINST *CENA* (GAB 2007), and possibly the Draft 2007 match against Benoit that I haven't watched since it originally aired, is there a good Lashley match out there?

Oh, and also LOL at that thread saying that Kofi/Big E/Woods will be the next Shield.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbf I'd take Lashley/MVP/King over E/Woods/Kofi any day of the week, and I'm not even a fan of any of the TNA guys particularly.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

If Henry comes back as a heel and joins the stable though, Henry > Lashley/MVP/King :shrug


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, if Henry and Titus as well too join the LOL Squad, well then the stable is salvageable.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Other than his sole truly great singles match, AGAINST *CENA* (GAB 2007), and possibly the Draft 2007 match against Benoit that I haven't watched since it originally aired, is there a good Lashley match out there?


Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - **** - 5
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - King of the Ring Semi Final Match - Smackdown May 12th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - US Title - Smackdown July 21st 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
King Booker Vs Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - WHC - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley Vs Randy orton, JBL & Finlay - Smackdown February 24th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown October 6th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - *** - 2
Finlay & JBL Vs Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley - Smackdown February 17th 2006 - *** - 2
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - US Title - Smackdown August 18th 2006 - *** - 2
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 15th 2006 - *** - 2

FINLAY :mark:. He's in EVERY ONE of those matches :lmao. Just further proof that in WWE 06, NOBODY was better than Finlay. Fucking NOBODY.

EDIT: Here's that Benoit/Lashley match too http://www.dailymotion.com/video/krfnmFg0ILO9L68eQ5u .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao at this Austin/Michaels podcast. Shawn Michaels of all people complaining about how wrestlers sell today.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

HBK is on the Austin show? Think ill check it out.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Only 4 out of those were singles matches, and they were all against Finlay which shouldn't even count considering he is Finlay :side:

Anyway, how much into No Mercy are you?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Up to the casket match. Took a break to get some house work done .


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> HBK is on the Austin show? Think ill check it out.



He was like the second guest Steve ever had, that show is over a year old. His podcast that was just released today is with Ken Shamrock.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I think it was actually SCSA's first show he had him on


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> I think it was actually SCSA's first show he had him on


Oh lol.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

So SummerSlam looks to be a two match show. Rollins/Ambrose and obviously, Bork/Cena. Looking forward to those two. Fucking cocksuckers are gonna make Orton job to Reigns.  Oh well, hope it's a one time thing and Orton will finally get the fuck away from this mediocrity that he's had to put up with for months now.

Unless he improves in the ring, I hope Reigns fails hard as fuck and gets Batista-like reactions. Was neutral and even favorable towards him when The Shield covered his weaknesses but now he's more on his own, I've become what I hate. Another IWC stereotype who complains about a guy the WWE machine is behind. At least this time it's justified!

EDIT: Also looking forward to seeing Stephanie's fine ass get in the ring again! :mark:



#ROOT said:


> No Mercy 05 has begun! Looking forward to a whole 2 matches on the card. Yey! Even though I only consider one of them to be great. Always thought Eddie/Batista was solid but nothing that good tbh.


You better not NO the fatal four way! :side:

I know you hate Booker and Orlando is in that match, but nothing should make you pass up on the rare opportunity to see Benoit and Christian in the same ring!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I didn't NO the 4 way. Benoit and Christian made me wanna watch .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hopefully Rollins/Ambrose and Cena/Lesnar continue the job started by Punk/Lesnar and Cena/Bryan last year and have two ****1/2+ matches in the same card, instantly making up another of the top SS's ever. Unfortunely we won't have a proper triple Main Event again, as Orton/Reigns will suck balls unless Orton finds dat 2004-06 motivation in him like he did with the Bryan Raw matches. But then again, Jericho/Wyatt and AJ/Paige may not fail again (hopefully not) given how Battleground was basically them holding back completely, and Swagger/Rusev II and whatever the Tag Titles match is should be interesting as well. Steph/Brie sounds awful on one hand, but on the other, Brie is somewhat decent in the ring for Divas standards (DAT GOAT TRAINING :bryan3) and Steph was involved in one of the greatest Divas matches ever 13 years ago, so I have hopes. Sheamus/Miz(/Ziggler?) could be a worse option too, even if I don't care much. Only Orton/Reigns sounds awful imo. So yeah, there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the non-Main Event matches of SummerSlam.

And will you be doing Armageddon and Vengeance in the next two days, Cal?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cena to put the STF on Brock. :lmao


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Dean/Cesaro for the time the got was real good and good regardless with solid psychology as expected. I always opined that Cesaro would regain his lost red hot momentum if he put Heyman in the swing and reverted to face. Unfortunately, that didnt happen, thus this is the next best thing. Hope this can drag Cesaro out of the hole Heyman dug him in but likely for the forseeable future Cesaro is in the dreaded "great hand" role. Perhaps Cesaro can replace Orton in the authority one day. 

on a side note, this new faction really intrigues me. I suppose the wll be a NOD, but for this to fully work, the material needs to go all in, and with as many corporate eyes and potential partners watching the now global WWE, seems impossible to do right. Heck WWE is getting heat for a political reference at a B ppv, an outright NOD seeme bound to get Hassan'd. Maybe this isnt even NOD. personnel is interesting, as you got Woods as spearhead, Kofi and E. If Henry comes in, I would think he would be getting the top billing. Titus could come in and while I dont care for Truth, the conspiracy gimmick would work real well. If we had X, Kofi, E, Titus and Henry, henry Titus and X all can be good on the stick, and with Kofi's athleticism, E as muscle, Henry as muscle and more important brining veteran grizzle, X as the "brains" and organizing and Titus bringing charisma and a sense of humor, that group could be a real good mix. If that's the group, I would make Woods more a facilitator rather than leader and split the mike between Henry, Titus and Woods. 

I do wonder if Kofi's capable of being a jerk heel or especially a callous heel. We've rarely ever seen much acting of Kofi outside of the Randy car segment and the guy's moveset is far from heel. Guy forever has been the energizer and recently the escape specialist, this will be interesting.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Reigns makes me change my mind so much on him.

First, I wasn't sold. Then I went to Raw in Montreal on the 7th and was sold because you feel the energy and it's just different experiencing what Reigns does live, but then I've watched him without that feel of being there live and he just doesn't impress one bit. His mic work is meh, his offense is strikes, his apron dropkick, a Samoan drop and a spear and he gets gassed quickly. It's just a matter of time before he's getting the Cena treatment.

On the other hand, my boy Dean Ambrose looks to be well on his way to being a star. 

As for Summerslam, I think it can be a good show. Lesnar/Cena should be a MOTYC again just like it was in 2012, Ambrose/Rollins will steal the fucking show, Orton can probably carry Reigns to something watchable if those house show reports from a while back are true, hopefully Wyatt/Jericho bring it for Summerslam since it seems they were holding back at Battleground. I think it'll be more than a two match card, but if it does end up being a two match show, both those matches should at least be **** matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, if those reports are true, thank God. Current day Orton can indeed carry Reigns through a watchable match when he wants to. Too bad we probably won't get the Orton who does give a fuck, and we're going to see the most boring SummerSlam Main Event-caliber match since Batista/Khali.

But anyway, I think the best way to prepare for SummerSlam (Ambrose/Rollins and Cena/BORK more especifically) by watching the bliss that was last year's show. And then watching the 2002 show. And then the 1997, 2001 and 2005 shows.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> So SummerSlam looks to be a two match show. Rollins/Ambrose and obviously, Bork/Cena. Looking forward to those two. Fucking cocksuckers are gonna make Orton job to Reigns.  Oh well, hope it's a one time thing and Orton will finally get the fuck away from this mediocrity that he's had to put up with for months now.
> 
> Unless he improves in the ring, I hope Reigns fails hard as fuck and gets Batista-like reactions. Was neutral and even favorable towards him when The Shield covered his weaknesses but now he's more on his own, I've become what I hate. Another IWC stereotype who complains about a guy the WWE machine is behind. At least this time it's justified!
> 
> ...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

WrestlingOracle said:


> I'm curious C2D, what would you do with Orton? Guy is the definition of spinning wheels right now and really is the authority's bitch. Perhaps Cesaro could replace Orton, orton could take a much needed break and return with recharged batteries. Right now, the product simply doesnt need him and he is far too good and valuable to constantly spin wheels.


You raise a very good point. There really is nowhere else for him to go and as a heel, he's damaged goods. As much as I hate it, having him work with Reigns as the veteran helping a rookie and future star is probably the only place for him to be. That's the best they can do with him, otherwise he'd just be in 2012 mode, feuding with random midcarders for no reason and just repeatedly having matches with them.

As it is, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I will say it anyways. He can put over Reigns at SummerSlam (hopefully he puts forth the effort to make it as good as possible) as we all expect. Then after that, he turns on Triple H and tells him that the alignment has done him no favors. It has made him spoiled and despite promising to bring out the vicious Viper in him, it's been locked away because Triple H has made him empty promises that has caused him to coast and lose his real self. That leads to him going back to being a tweenerish face (like 2010) after SummerSlam and he will challenge The Authority's new handpicked guy, Brock Lesnar, for the World Title at Night of Champions. He comes close but does not win and after the match, Brock beats the shit out of him. After that, he will be given the chance to take a break until the Royal Rumble or something like that.

Not much in the long term, but right now he's being wasted and also happens to be pretty stale in need of a break because he's been worn out with the audience and is not doing anything noteworthy to warrant remaining on screen. But he's also too valuable to float around like that as you said. So therefore, a break is for the best.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Orton vs. Reigns at Summerslam should give us the idea if Reigns is actually ready for this singles push or not. He had a good singles match with Punk at the beginning of the year but I think his matches will work out even better for him as the babyface who makes the big comeback and feeds off the crowd. I think it should be a good match if Randy doesn't get lazy.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> You raise a very good point. There really is nowhere else for him to go and as a heel, he's damaged goods. As much as I hate it, having him work with Reigns as the veteran helping a rookie and future star is probably the only place for him to be. That's the best they can do with him, otherwise he'd just be in 2012 mode, feuding with random midcarders for no reason and just repeatedly having matches with them.
> 
> As it is, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I will say it anyways. He can put over Reigns at SummerSlam (hopefully he puts forth the effort to make it as good as possible) as we all expect. Then after that, he turns on Triple H and tells him that the alignment has done him no favors. It has made him spoiled and despite promising to bring out the vicious Viper in him, it's been locked away because Triple H has made him empty promises that has caused him to coast and lose his real self. That leads to him going back to being a tweenerish face (like 2010) after SummerSlam and he will challenge The Authority's new handpicked guy, Brock Lesnar, for the World Title at Night of Champions. He comes close but does not win and after the match, Brock beats the shit out of him. After that, he will be given the chance to take a break until the Royal Rumble or something like that.
> 
> Not much in the long term, but right now he's being wasted and also happens to be pretty stale in need of a break because he's been worn out with the audience and is not doing anything noteworthy to warrant remaining on screen. But he's also too valuable to float around like that as you said. So therefore, a break is for the best.




I'm actually completely on board with this plan. The one good thing I will say about Orton and Reigns matching up is, we all KNOW Orton with all his injuries doesn't like or have any interest bumping around, so we could instead get a real meaty slug fest between the two. Go watch the 2004 Royal Rumble sometime, not only for the brilliance that is Benoits performance, but for the Foley/Orton interactions. Really look close. Those two are throwing 100% REAL punches at each other. I mean Orton was just lighting Foley up and Foley was giving it right back to him. Given how often Reigns seems to have black eyes and bruises on his face, and seeing his awesome punch fest with Rowan at EC, I can totally see them just saying "fuck it" and throwing some real soup bone punches at each other. We all know Orton and his motivation problems, but if he IS motivated I can see him working a real compelling control segment on young Roman with tons of physicality to keep things interesting.

Now, I have to believe if Randall really gets a shot at Brock for NoC, he would have to temporarily suspend his "no bumping" policy to stooge around for Lesnar, cause let's face it if he doesn't do it willingly Brock can make him do it against his will :lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Orton/Reigns at SS will completely depend on Orton's will. I already know what Reigns is gonna do all match long - punches, sell for a long control segment, big clothesline, apron dropkick, Superman punch, Spear. Maybe kick out of an RKO or something as well. So I'm pretty sure that if Orton goes 2006 (or at least minimally caring) on Reigns' ass, the match will be good. If he doesn't, the match will be bland. It will be do or die when it comes to my opinion on Reigns, but the quality of the match itself will totally depend on Orton as it stands atm. That's how I see it.

Now, because I'm in the mood for some 2013, and not just SummerSlam, does anybody have a list of the best of last year? Like a top 50 or something? I'm pretty sure 2013 is one of the top 10, maybe 5 years in company history when it comes to the in-ring stuff, and really, I wanna watch some of it.


----------



## ThunderAngel (Aug 6, 2006)

* - Very Bad
* ½ – Bad
** - Not Bad
** ½ – Average 
** ¾ - Good
*** - Very Good
*** ¼ – Nearly Great
*** ½ - Great
*** ¾ - More than Great
**** - Amazing
**** ½ - Near Perfect
***** - Perfection or close enough

Wrestling is a subjective topic and therefore my ratings are just that _my[i/] ratings.


*Tag Team Title Match 2/3 falls: Usos vs Wyatt Family - *** ¼ *
I Would have give this match an extra bit if it was a one fall match as the third fall was brilliant, however since it was a gimmick I feel the first two falls just weren't that good also the superkick seemed to be overused. However the last couple of minutes were overall great. 

*Divas Title Match: AJ vs Paige - **1/4*
A few blown spots but overall not a bad match for the divas division, I feel they can do a lot more in future matches. Definitely not a bad match.

*Jack Swagger vs. Rusev - **1/2*
Fairly solid simple match. Nothing special really however I liked Rusev's selling of the ankle that continued post match. Interesting ending that really made Swagger look strong in defeat. 

*Chris Jericho vs Bray Wyatt - ****
Second match of the night to break into the *** category. Surprise ending too! 

*Fatal 4 Way WWEWH Title Match: Cena vs. Orton vs. Kane vs. Reigns - *** ½ *
Match of the night and as it should be. A very solid match throughout besides a few little things that bug me – Cena leaving the ring at the start when pins and submissions can only happen in the ring -_- and his no sell of the spear from Reigns, although that may have been bad camera angle chosen from the production truck._


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Orton vs. Reigns at Summerslam should give us the idea if Reigns is actually ready for this singles push or not. He had a good singles match with Punk at the beginning of the year but I think his matches will work out even better for him as the babyface who makes the big comeback and feeds off the crowd. I think it should be a good match if Randy doesn't get lazy.


I thought that Punk match wasn't anything particularly good or anything, but this was just a few weeks before the walk out and Punk couldn't even have a great match with Rollins around this time either.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> And will you be doing Armageddon and Vengeance in the next two days, Cal?


Hopefully, but it all depends on how motivated I am to watch them in place of other shit (Video editing, playing games, being lazy) .

Right, back to No Mercy. Casket match :mark:.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thing with Orton is he is just there nowadays, I get no emotion once seeing him, nor does he show any besides screaming at H. I definitely think he has peaked, what else can you do with him ? Has a superstar feuded with EVERYONE multiple times more than Orton so idk. I thought about this a couple months ago, but I truly believe Orton is a perfect example of a "B+ player". Looking back a "2012" was perfect for him, that top guy on SD feuding with Barrett/Rhodes/Ziggler putting them over


Edit: Also why isnt anyone praising Rusev/Swagger, thought it was really good


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

ATF said:


> Now, because I'm in the mood for some 2013, and not just SummerSlam, does anybody have a list of the best of last year? Like a top 50 or something? I'm pretty sure 2013 is one of the top 10, maybe 5 years in company history when it comes to the in-ring stuff, and really, I wanna watch some of it.


Here's a few off the wall recommendations outside of what most folks already know ds the best shit:

The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton (RAW June 3rd)
Randy Orton vs. CM Punk (RAW July 8th)
Tag Team Titles: Reigns & Rollins vs. Team Hell No (RAW May 27th)
Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins (RAW June 10th)

Bryan also has a singles match with Ambrose on RAW that's pretty good too. No clue what the date is. Can't go wrong with the Shield's first loss on Smackdown against the same Orton & Hell No team either. First I would watch Taker vs. Punk from Mania though and realize how godly CM Punk was.

One more really damn good match: Cena vs. Del Rio for the World Title at Hell in a Cell. Loved it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Swagger/Rusev was probably the 2nd best match of the night, behind Usos/Wyatts. Rusev's selling and intensity are so awesome, and Zeb rallying up Swagger was really cool too. Tied with the Main Event for a *** rating for me, but I personally liked it better than the 4-Way.

Adored all those matches you mentioned, Corey. Orton/Punk was the lesser of them obviously but I thought it was perfectly fine for what it was. I believe the Bryan/Ambrose you're talking about was the one the same night after the incredible Orton/Goldust. Very good too, and very underrated considering the only singles match people tend to remember out of Ambrose in 2013 was the one with Punk from the Slammies, and maybe the one with Taker too. And Shield/RKNo from Smackdown is one of my favorites of the Shield. I always thought the Raw match was great, but Smackdown was better in every way imho.

Just because, I'm gonna rewatch that Shield vs the World 11 on 3 Handicap match in Chicago, one of my absolute favorite matches from 2013. And then I'm gonna watch the dreaded "Thanksgiving Turmoil" as funnyfaces puts it - the Shield/Rhodes Bros turned Shield/Rhodes Bros & Punk turned Shield & Wyatts/Rhodes Bros, Usos, Punk & Rey. I never really saw it as a Tag Turmoil, but considering that no match of that trio clocks in under *** (the first one ranges ***1/2 for me), not only have I found another Shield ****-range classic, but the absolute greatest Tag Team Turmoil ever and it's not even close. Maybe JD 2001 as a contention, but not really close for me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Now, I have to believe if Randall really gets a shot at Brock for NoC, he would have to temporarily suspend his "no bumping" policy to stooge around for Lesnar, cause let's face it if he doesn't do it willingly Brock can make him do it against his will :lol.


I doubt he has a problem working a bit more physical against Brock. I just don't expect him to put up with shit like multiple Belly-to-Belly suplexes on the floor and through the announce table. He might take a F5 through the table and get tossed around inside the ring which I think is good enough. He went through three tables in the TLC match with Cena, so I would hope he's not too much of a pussy for some more bumps against Brock.

And now I think about it, who else is there for Brock to face at NOC other than Orton? Bryan is injured, Reigns is not ready and will only win the title at WM, another Cena rematch is overkill, Sheamus has gone down the card, Cesaro's Heyman alignment was dropped with no explanation which means he's been killed (smh) and no one else is noteworthy. Oh, a returning Batista might be an option at some point, but I doubt they can have either Brock or Batista play face on that one. A face Orton is the best option, really.



NAITCH said:


> Looking back a "2012" was perfect for him, that top guy on SD feuding with Barrett/Rhodes/Ziggler putting them over


lolno, that was the worst thing ever.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Sadly, Orton's peaked, and that's what happens when you give talent too much too soon. Eventually they're just "there" and that's where Orton is now, which sucks because he's so talented. Now he's just going to be putting over Roman and God knows where he goes from there afterwards.



ATF said:


> Orton/Reigns at SS will completely depend on Orton's will. I already know what Reigns is gonna do all match long - punches, sell for a long control segment, big clothesline, apron dropkick, Superman punch, Spear. Maybe kick out of an RKO or something as well. So I'm pretty sure that if Orton goes 2006 (or at least minimally caring) on Reigns' ass, the match will be good. If he doesn't, the match will be bland. It will be do or die when it comes to my opinion on Reigns, but the quality of the match itself will totally depend on Orton as it stands atm. That's how I see it.
> 
> Now, because I'm in the mood for some 2013, and not just SummerSlam, does anybody have a list of the best of last year? Like a top 50 or something? I'm pretty sure 2013 is one of the top 10, maybe 5 years in company history when it comes to the in-ring stuff, and really, I wanna watch some of it.


Off the top of my head (deleted my list long ago):

- Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio (Main Event 02/04/13)
- The Shield vs. John Cena, Sheamus & Ryback (Elimination Chamber)
- CM Punk vs. John Cena (Raw 02/25/13)
- CM Punk vs. The Undertaker (Wrestlemania 29)
- The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Kofi Kingston (Raw 05/20/13)
- The Shield vs. Team Hell No & Randy Orton (Raw 06/03/13)
- Daniel Bryan vs. Seth Rollins (06/10/13)
- CM Punk vs. Chris Jericho (Payback)
- Dolph Ziggler vs. Alberto Del Rio (Payback)
- World title MITB match (Money in the Bank)
- John Cena vs. Mark Henry (Money in the Bank)
- WWE title MITB match (Money in the Bank)
- Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian (Summerslam)
- Brock Lesnar vs. CM Punk (Summerslam) - my MOTY
- John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan (Summerslam)
- Seth Rollins & Roman Reigns vs. Rhodes Bros. (Battleground)
- Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan (Raw 12/16/13)
- John Cena vs. Seth Rollins (Smackdown 12/27/13)

Nowhere near a top 50 since I deleted my list long ago but it's the best I could remember.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

What I'd do with Orton.

He continues to spin wheels for several more months. January/February hits. He's pissed because he's left out of a title match and throws a tantrum at a backstage interview, throwing shit around.

And some of that shit lands on Luke Harper & Erick Rowan.

Orton has a main event match that night on Raw. He ends up alone in there post-match. The lights go out. He gets mugged by Harper & Rowan, who drag the entitled pretty boy to the stage and throw him off to a thunderous ovation as the show goes off the air!!!

The face turn has now been completed.

WrestleMania 31 - The Wyatt Family vs. Batista, Triple H, & Randy Orton


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shit I forgot Main Event and NXT! Yeah so the first few months of 2013 had Sheamus/Ziggler, Del Rio/Ziggler, and Sheamus/Cesaro (which were all great). NXT had Ohno/Regal and the Cesaro/Zayn matches so there's some more.

Can't forget about Cena vs. Sandow on the cash-in either!


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

There was that one time The Shield wrestled nearly the entire second hour on Smackdown last year. Anyone remember which show it was? Or which match?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Sift through the promotions you don't wish to watch, ATF. If you want a longer list, it's at the bottom of my Best of 2013 post.

1. CM Punk Vs Brock Lesnar (18/08/2013 WWE)
2. Shinsuke Nakamura(c) Vs Kazushi Sakuraba (05/01/2013 NJPW)
3. Daniel Bryan Vs John Cena (18/08/2013 WWE)
4. Guerrero Maya Jr Vs Virus (06/10/2013 CMLL)
5. William Regal Vs Antonio Cesaro (25/12/2013 WWE)
6. Charles Lucero Vs Rey Hechicero (04/08/2013 Fighters NICE)
7. The Undertaker Vs CM Punk (07/04/2013 WWE)
8. Rhodes Dynasty Vs The Shield (14/10/2013 WWE)
9. Kassius Ohno Vs William Regal (21/03/2013 WWE)
10. CM Punk Vs John Cena (25/02/2013 WWE)
11. Jun Akiyama Vs KAI (29/04/2013 AJPW)
12. Dr. Wagner Jr Vs LA Par-K (02/06/2013 TxT)
13. Tomohiro Ishii vs Katsuyori Shibata (04/08/2013 NJPW)
14. Shocker, Terrible & ***** Casas Vs Maximo, Rey Escorpion & Rush (28/06/2013 CMLL)
15. HHH Vs Brock Lesnar (19/05/2013 WWE)
16. Blue Panther/***** Casas/Atlantis Vs Black Terry/***** Navarro/Solar (16/08/2013 CMLL)
17. Hiroshi Tanahashi Vs Kazuchika Okada (07/04/2013 NJPW)
18. Mark Henry Vs John Cena (14/07/2013 WWE)
19. Sami Zayn Vs Antonio Cesaro (21/08/2013 WWE)
20. Oficial 911 Vs Trauma II Vs El Angel (03/03/2013 IWRG)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RAVEN said:


> There was that one time The Shield wrestled nearly the entire second hour on Smackdown last year. Anyone remember which show it was? Or which match?


Smackdown 20.09.2013. I think. 

http://www.wrestleview.com/wwe-wres...we-smackdown-results-9-20-13-11-on-3-gauntlet


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well I'm done rewatching the Shield & Wyatts/Rhodes, Punk, Rey & Usos "Thanksgiving Turmoil" from Smackdown last year. And well, seeing it as a Tag Team Turmoil (which I never really saw it as), holy fucking shit Judgment Day 2001 has nothing on it. The Shield/Rhodes Bros round has obviously nothing on their Battleground or No DQ classics, but still, it was the Tag 101 bliss I'd expect out of the two teams together. The 6-man tag round was not going to be as good as the first one, but still, it was the typical Shield match, and that's never a bad thing at all, is it? And the 12-man tag basically gave us the finishing stretch of that batshit insane Main Event from Raw Country that had Bryan instead of Rey. Truly badass stuff.

The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers: ***1/2
The Shield vs. The Rhodes Brothers & CM Punk: ***
The Shield & The Wyatt Family vs. The Rhodes Brothers, CM Punk, Rey Mysterio & The Usos: ***
Overall of the Tag Turmoil: ******

Also, rewatching the 11 on 3 Handicap match from Raw is always going to give me dem goosebumps. Reigns blasting through everyone and then getting what he had coming from Bryan and the Usos with the crowd going batshit crazy was just :mark:. One of 2013's most forgotten classics.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*No Mercy 2005*

This is the event that got me back into wrestling after I kinda gave up on it following WM 21 when Cena and Batista were both champions! I saw an advert hours before the event started, showing Eddie Guerrero Vs Batista which make me think we might see EDDIE win the title, and a CASKET MATCH with The Undertaker against Randy & Bob Orton!


*MNM Vs LOD & Christy Hemme*

Christy and Melina. FAP FAP FAP.

HEIDENROPE~! Good start to the match with Michael Cole unable to call Heidenreich by his actual name .

LOD want to kill MNM because not only did they interfere in a match on Smackdown, but they gave Christy the Snapshot!!!










DAMN!

Animal has a bad shoulder, so MNM focus their offence on it, and they are able to land a Snapshot within the first few minutes!

ANIMAL KICKS OUT!

Well... MNM just had their finisher nullified within the first 5 minutes. Where the fuck do they go from here? :lmao

Melina puts a head scissors on Animal. Everyone watching is jealous.

:lmao Animal hits a powerslam and has the chance to make a tag... so he goes for a cover instead . I hope Heidenreich kicks his injured arm out of his arm for that :side:.

Melina tags herself in because she doesn't want Animale to make a tag. Animal catches her and tags in Christy. DOOMSDAY DEVICE FROM ANIMAL AND CHRISTY TO MELINA~!

:lmao Melina totally sandbags being turned over into the pin .

Well this was fine. Fun. MNM rule.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


Batista and Eddie! They wish each other good luck in the most unconvincing way EVER.


*Simon Dean Vs Bobby Lashley*

:lmao I remember when I saw this live. I obviously hadn't watched for a couple of months and hadn't seen Lashley before. I thought he was Monty Brown from TNA :lmao. That's not racist, right? :side:

20 DOUBLE CHEESEBURGERS~! Well now I'm hungry. If Simon doesn't win tonight, he's gonna eat all 20 of the burgers!

So this is Lashley's FIRST PPV. Damn, he was in the SVS Raw Vs SD match after only being on PPV ONCE before?

:lmao Simon Dean distracts the referee... BY THROWING BURGERS :lmao. Then he uses the tray to deck Lashley, who no sells it, and proceeds to botch a cool attempt at setting up the Dominator .

Squash city.

*Rating: 1/4**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


Is JBL standing on a box? Because fuck, he's towering above Rey more than I think he should lol.


*Chris Benoit Vs Christian Vs Booker T Vs Orlando Jordan - WWE United States Championship Match*

Fans pop like crazy at the announcement of the fatal four way lol. Unsure of this one. Half the talent involved are tremendous. The other half are Booker T and Orlando Jordan.

Early on Benoit is on fire. Firsty he takes an awesome turnbuckle bump that sends him to the outside for a minute or so allowing the heels to double team Booker T. He bumps so fecking well from it you can easily believe that would take him out for a while. Then when he comes back in he fucking DOMINATES. 

Bah, we end up with a Benoit/Booker staredown as the commentators CONSTANTLY tell us about their history with the Best of 7 Series in WCW over the US title. Almost like they want us to remember it in case they do something similar :side:.

Benoit took that awesome bump into the turnbuckle, then Christian damn near kills himself bumping off the top rope to the floor! Benoit takes the same bump at the same time but doesn't do it with quite the style of CAPTAIN CHARISMA~!

Basically everything good about this match comes from Benoit and Christian, be it their bumping or them on offence. The number of people surprised by this is equal to the number of people who think Chavo Guerrero Jr is a worthy addition to the family... .

In the end Benoit retains when he makes Christian tap out. This would also be the last WWE PPV Christian would wrestle on (he appeared at TT backstage as an option for a match) until 2009!

Nothing special here, but yeah, Benoit and Christian make it more than just watchable. I mostly had fun tbh.

Sharmell tells Booker that Chris Benoit is not his friend and he made him lose. Setting up that heel turn and Best of 7 Series. Urgh.

*Rating: ***
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


*Mr Kennedy Vs Hardcore Holly*

Is this Kennedy's first PPV match? Why am I even wondering this. I've WATCHED all the PPV's from 2005 prior to this one except for Vengeance, and I know he wasn't on that one .

THE ALABAMA SLAMMA HARDCORE HOLLY :lmao. THAT'S HOW HE GETS INTRODUCED :lmao.

Holly beats Kennedy up. I have fun with it .

Then Kennedy works the arm. And by work I mean sits in a hold for about a minute. I stopped having fun at this point .

HO.LY.SHIT. Holly lands a flapjack on Kennedy that might be the most vicious version of the move I have EVER seen.












Then THIS happens:










:lmao

Kennedy wins. This was pretty fucking awful tbh lol.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*JBL Vs Rey Mysterio*

What was the deal with Jillian Hall's thing on her face? Is that one of those infamous ideas that Vince McMahon thinks is hilarious and does it even though it's retarded? The thing is quite obviously fake lol, nobody in their right mind think it's real, yet everyone on the show always acts like it is :lmao.

Also, she is apparently JBL's image consultant. What on earth, during all her time with him, did she ACTUALLY do? She's the most useless non wrestler ever!

Mysterio plays cat and mouse with JBL, running away and tiring the big Texan out. Which begs the question WHY DOES JBL EVEN BOTHER RUNNING AFTER HIM EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME?

Ok, JBL is officially retarded. He uses Jillian to avoid a crossbody from Rey, who lands on the apron and doesn't do the move. Then, while Mysterio is still standing on the apron... JBL TURNS AROUND AND SLOWLY WALKS AWAY, allowing Mysterio to still JUMP OFF THE FUCKING APRON onto him.

He makes up for it by sending Mysterio into the steel steps, then absolutely DESTROYS him in the corner :mark:.

FALL AWAY SLAM OFF THE ROPES~!

FALL AWAY SLAM IN THE RING~!

FALL AWAY SLAM ON THE FLOOR~!

MYSTERIO STILL KICKS OUT~!

JBL locks in a bear hug and makes it awesome by CLUBBING Mysterio's back every now and then :mark:. Then it turns into a "Rey keeps trying for a comeback" match and that's always awesome.

Mysterio looks to have this won and CLOTHESLINE FROM HELL~!

Wasn't really feeling this one tbh. Was ok, but didn't really do it for me. Never thought much of their matches at all tbh.

*Rating: **1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton & Bob Orton - Handicap Casket Match*

:mark:

How fucking AWESOME are the look-a-like mannequins that WWE use? Must be kinda creepy for the guys to open a casket and see themselves in it lol.

And the biggest pop of the night goes to Undertaker's GONG!

Gotta love how it takes MULTIPLE punches to take down BOB Orton, but Randy bumps from one . Not a complaint, don't get me wrong, just amusing . BOB ORTON fucking rules so he can take as many punches to the face as he fucking wants before he goes down. Might I also say he fucking bumps and sells from those punches better than most of the roster at the time.

This is just a fucking MASTERCLASS on how to bump and sell punches. Randy does it pretty great as it is, but his Dad is on a whole other level. He can do it in the "realistic" style (as realistic as wrestling gets, anyway), but he can also throw in some old school stooge bumps too, like being hit, looking out of it and falling face first into one of the turnbuckle pads :mark:.

:mark: at Orton getting thrown over the ropes and hanging on to them for his life because the casket was open. Always good to see guys really play up the fear of being put in the casket.

OLD SCHOOL ON OLD SCHOOL~! Orton saves his Dad!

Double superplex!!! Bob Orton hit a superplex with Randy off the ropes!!! Guy is still taking bumps off the rope at his age!

Double DDT!!! :lmao Bob even takes a bump off that better than his son! Bob Orton is still fucking tremendous. Gotta love it!

Undertaker is doing a great job of keeping on top of the match despite being against 2 men. He hits Bob then turns his attention to Randy, who is obviously the guy you wanna work over more. Bob is great at still being a game changer with things like low blows and shit.

CHAIR TO RANDY~! RANDY IS IN THE CASKET!

TRIANGLE CHOKE TO BOB ORTON~! BOB IS IN THE CASKET!

Orton manages to get out before the lid is closed, leaving poor old Bob alone in the dark, while Undertaker and Orton can battle it out!

:lmao UNDERTAKER HITS RANDY WITH A FUCKING LOW BLOW :lmao. That's how much Undertaker fucking hates Randy!

Gotta love how Randy realises his Dad is out of the match for the time being, and really turns up the aggression. But his arrogance costs him when he poses to the fans while on the ropes doing a 10 punch, and of course you just KNOW what's gonna happen! Last Ride... avoided! Randy dodged it, but still ends up taking it anyway!!!

Undertaker has this in hand, opens the casket to put Randy in... and Bob Orton uses a fire extinguisher to blind the Dead Man! He can't see, and walks right into an RKO!!!

BOB ORTON IS ROLLING UNDERTAKER INTO THE CASKET! BOB ORTON IS GONNA BEAT THE UNDER... CHOKE! UNDERTAKER IS CHOKING BOB! FIRE EXTINGUISHER TO THE HEAD! UNDERTAKER IS IN THE CASKET! ORTON TRIES TO CLOSE THE LID AND... UNDERTAKER DRAGS HIM INSIDE!!!

The lid opens back up, and Undertaker takes a steel chair to the face! RANDY AND BOB WIN!!!

Then in a repeat of the 1998 Royal Rumble, they SET THE CASKET ON FIRE!!!

I swear this match gets better and better every time I watch it. It's just beautiful. Bob is a tremendous worker even at his age. Orton is in his absolute PRIME, and Undertaker is better than he has been in years too. They work the handicap stip wonderfully, they use the casket and the fear the Orton's have of it well, and everyone puts in one hell of a performance. I love it. Best. Casket Match. Ever.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*


*Juventud Guerrera Vs Nunzio - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Undertaker just got set on fire in a casket, so let's follow up with stereotypical Mexicans riding lawn mowers!!!

PIN ATTEMPT~!

PIN ATTEMPT~!

PIN ATTEMPT~!

PIN ATTEMPT~!

PIN ATTEMPT~!

PIN ATTEMPT~!

Oh man, Nunzio takes one hell of a boot to the face.

Cole and Tazz spend about 5 minutes talking about Juventud's name. Then Tazz literally says that there is also a CW title match going on so they should probably get back to it :lmao.

Sweet finish, but that's about all I cared for in this one. Dull. New champ.

*Rating: 1/2**
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Batista Vs Eddie Guerrero - World Heavyweight Championship Match*

Eddie spent the better part of the year trying to rip Rey and his family apart. Now he just wants to be Batista's friend! An interesting angle, that unfortunately we never got the end of . Was Eddie REALLY a changed man? Or was he gonna turn on Batista in order to become WHC?

The fans chanting for him and Eddie smiling and playing up to the crowd is great to see . I'M YOUR PAPI shirt! I bought that when I went to Raw the week after he passed away . Still got it. Doesn't fit me, but I still got it.

No HATE~! or anything here, just two "friends" going for the WHC. Eddie keeps trying to take Batista down to the mat, but the POWER of the champion keeps him on his feet.

A slow start to this one, with neither man going all out just yet, but the fans are still into everything they are doing which is great. They work a simple standing headlock spot for a while, with Eddie trying to escape, but Batista being too powerful and preventing the escape, forcing Eddie to try something else.

Eddie just can't seem to get going, and for a second he contemplates using a steel chair, but thinks better of it. Batista gets angry at the fact he even went for a chair, but his ANGER almost costs him the WHC as Eddie drops him throat first across the rope and lands a Frog Splash to the back!!! He kicks out, but the damage has now been done!

They keep playing up on Eddie almost reverting back to the "old" Eddie. He takes off the tag rope and looks to use it to choke out Batista, but like the chair, he throws is down and decides against it.

Batista keeps using his strength to fight out of various submission holds, but his back is too hurt for him to follow up, allowing Guerrero to keep control of the match and move one step closer to winning the gold!

SMALL PACKAGE FROM BATISTA~! 

Holy shit at that ref bump. IT LOOKED ORGANIC!

With the referee down, Eddie gets a HUGE grin on his face, and he brings in another steel chair!!! But he can't do it! I don't think it quite gets the reaction Eddie wanted from it though; the fans BOO him for not nailing Batista with the chair lol.

All that hesitation from Guerrero gave Batista an opportunity to recover, and THE ANIMAL IS UNLEASHED!

Batista Bomb attempt is countered into a Sunset flip attempt! Batista sells the back and almost falls backwards, but musters up enough strength for a Spinebuster, then collapses to the floor in pain! HE'S ACTUALLY SELLING THE BACK!!! Why couldn't he have done that at the end of the Backlask match with HHH?

3 AMIGOS~!

Frog Splash... no! Batista moves, and Eddie rolls through... then runs right into another Spinebuster! Batista retains!

Good match. Might have enjoyed it more this time around than I have in the past. It's not great or a masterpiece for anything, and the stuff with the steel chair near the end feels like a poor man's Piper/Bret from WM 8. Still, overall a good match with some nice storytelling, and Eddie really made sure Batista worked to his strengths in the match.

Eddie's final PPV match ever . And he managed to get a good match out of Batista. Not bad .

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 11*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why shouldn't I be surprised Cal gave that (admitedly totally tremendous) Casket Match ****1/2? :side:

Armageddon next for you. Do NOT NO Benoit/Booker this time around. You should go back and watch the SVS one too to add some points to that show, it is pretty good anyway. But Armageddon is so much better it's not even funny - don't even try to NO it. I have it at ***1/2 myself. Also, :mark: as much as you can for JBL/Matt and Taker/Orton HIAC.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Why shouldn't I be surprised Cal gave that (admitedly totally tremendous) Casket Match ****1/2? :side:


Hey, he's not wrong on that one at all!

Casket match is so fucking good. Just love it every time and it might be my favorite go-to match from their series. Cal, you should get to their Smackdown match too before Armageddon to finish off their series much like you did Eddie/Rey.

Also lol @ the second Holly/Kennedy gif. The blocking of that spin kick is too hilarious. :lmao Would give the match a half star just for that. 

And yeah, don't NO Benoit/Booker no matter what. I can understand doing it to their No Way Out match, but SVS and Armageddon are both ACTUALLY GOOD. Plus if you hate Booker that much, you get to see him tap out in the latter.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Triple GOAT and Steph McGOAT killing it on Raw as usual. Call me crazy but I'm looking forward to Steph/Brie. I'd even wager it will have the hottest crowd reaction of the night too lol. Arenas are going crazy over this thing. 

Maybe Orton will turn on the Authority heading into the Winter and get a match with Brock then if he's still champ. It's all there for them to build on with Orton, Rollins, Lesnar and possibly Cesaro all affiliated with the Authority. Tons of ways they can go. I'm probably in the minority but I'm still up for Orton/Lesnar. At least it's something different and will be both a credible opponent for Brock and huge match for Orton.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Armageddon Booker/Benoit is fucking WOAT, plz NO cal


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

WOAT is No Way Out and it's not even THAT bad. Armageddon is really fucking good, don't listen to him Cal! :side:


----------



## Clique (Sep 9, 2007)

Starbuck said:


> Triple GOAT and Steph McGOAT killing it on Raw as usual. Call me crazy but I'm looking forward to Steph/Brie. I'd even wager it will have the hottest crowd reaction of the night too lol. Arenas are going crazy over this thing.


If booked properly with a HOT crowd Steph/Brie could surprise us like Steph/Trish (before Trish really was classed as a "worker") or Steph/Sable did years ago. The entertainment factor coming together with the pacing is what is needed otherwise it will be a total mess which it also has great potential of becoming tbh.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Brie/Steph is looking good so far. I am seriously looking forward to Steph's reaction to next week to getting arrested. Should be good for the lols. :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Starbuck said:


> Triple GOAT and Steph McGOAT killing it on Raw as usual. Call me crazy but I'm looking forward to Steph/Brie. I'd even wager it will have the hottest crowd reaction of the night too lol. Arenas are going crazy over this thing.


I know you were marking out when HHH started mocking smarks in his promo. 

I'm interested in Steph/Brie strictly for Steph. She's the face in this to me because Brie is so unlikable. Seeing Steph wrestle for the first time since No Mercy 03 is interesting in itself. She's not a qualified wrestler but just about every match she's had has been entertaining.



ATF said:


> WOAT is No Way Out and it's not even THAT bad. Armageddon is really fucking good, don't listen to him Cal! :side:


If Cal's any smart, he will completely ignore the Cal wannabe and have some guts by resisting the "NO button".


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I did smirk at Trips' promo on Raw, then i thought about all the social media crap they and force feed us themselves.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I imagine both Hunter and Bryan will have a lot of say in the Brie/Steph match. Not that it needs to be anything more than what Steph/Trish or Steph/Sable were. It's all about the entertainment factor with these things and I'm definitely looking forward to it. Keep it short, rehearse it well and they should be fine. Stephanie next week is going to be both :mark: and :lmao. Unleash dat inner demon McMahon. 

Brock/Cena
Rollins/Ambrose
Steph/Brie

Sold on Summerslam already

:vince$


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I know you were marking out when HHH started mocking smarks in his promo.
> 
> I'm interested in Steph/Brie strictly for Steph. She's the face in this to me because Brie is so unlikable. Seeing Steph wrestle for the first time since No Mercy 03 is interesting in itself. She's not a qualified wrestler but just about every match she's had has been entertaining.
> 
> ...



If you think Brie is so unlikable you should really watch that "Daniel Bryan Road to WM 30" special WWE released. She comes off really, really well, and it made me change my opinion of her entirely. I hated the Bellas since day 1, now just hate Nikki 

Plus, Steph is one of the most natural heels around, she is gonna get nuclear heat in her match with Brie you can count on it.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> If Cal's any smart, he will completely ignore the Cal wannabe and have some guts by resisting the "NO button".


:kobe9


----------



## JamesK (Oct 7, 2012)

XWT is down again?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> I did smirk at Trips' promo on Raw, then i thought about all the social media crap they and force feed us themselves.


He was on fire all show, from the opening promo to making jokes while Stephanie was getting arrested. :lmao

"Is this a hybrid? You must be real proud. Great gig you got over there." :trips2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

XWT works just fine for me.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> If you think Brie is so unlikable you should really watch that "Daniel Bryan Road to WM 30" special WWE released. She comes off really, really well, and it made me change my opinion of her entirely. I hated the Bellas since day 1, now just hate Nikki
> 
> Plus, Steph is one of the most natural heels around, she is gonna get nuclear heat in her match with Brie you can count on it.


Already seen it. I have nothing against the Bellas (or any other wrestler) personally, it's just that I can't stand them on-screen. They're simply annoying. Annoying voice, horrendous actors and although I don't think they are ugly, they look exactly that when standing next to Stephanie. But then again, just about anyone will look ugly next to that sexy bitch imo. :lol



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> :kobe9


Abusing lame Kobe smileys is probably the only trait you haven't ripped off of Cal.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Nikki doesn't look ugly next to no one.








I wish I could see that. :cena4

I gotta admit - I giggled at Hunter bahring the social media in that opening promo. :HHH2


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Just rewatched Orton/Bryan 6/24/13 Raw (Street Fight) , and shocked I liked it this much around. Always thought it was a standard no DQ/Street fight with a table bump, but its actually pretty fun. See Orton, take a few more bumps and see where it goes. Their series gets alot of flack but I actually like 5 of their matches


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Just rewatched Orton/Bryan 6/24/13 Raw (Street Fight) , and shocked I liked it this much around. Always thought it was a standard no DQ/Street fight with a table bump, but its actually pretty fun. See Orton, take a few more bumps and see where it goes. Their series gets alot of flack but I actually like 5 of their matches


This really was the match that legitimized Bryan, which is why I love it so much. And I agree, Orton and Bryan have much better chemistry than people give them credit for. They've only had one bad match that I can think of, and it wasn't even that bad (random RAW match). It's just that until December 2013, they never had that classic that we all wanted. But now they have two.

What are people's thoughts on 2006 in general for the WWE? I hated that year, but I'm gonna give it another chance by downloading all the shows from XWT. I heard Smackdown was off the charts. Smackdown surprised me (in a great way) when I watched 2005, and I hope the same happens here. Was RAW as bad as I remember it being?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Raw in 2006 is generally fun. It has its negatives such as the McMahons/DX/Spirit Squad nonsense that goes on for nearly all of the year but even there you'll be able to find some good comedy, mostly on Vince's part tbh. Edge/Cena is an excellent feud, though. And there are some good matches.

But if you want quality matches, Smackdown that year delivers almost weekly. There's trash like Vito in a dress, Tatanka and The Miz. But the good stuff outweigh the bad. Only during the summer did Smackdown really have any "down" periods during that year. But in the last couple of months it's awesome again. And of course, from January until April, the shows are addictive to watch. I ran through them last year faster than I could imagine. Plus a FINLAY fan should have plenty of enjoyment to get out of it so you need to give it a chance. Don't forget there's also ECW that year which has some good stuff as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I thought you hated ECW. Certainly I won't have a problem watching it considering unk3 was on it, but I faintly remember random callups from OVW that failed in ECW. I remember watching an episode of Smackdown in 2006, but I had to stop watching after seeing Vito in a dress :lol. His finisher if I recall correctly was a weird submission that made it look as if he was shoving his balls in the face of his opponent. It was that moment then and there where I stopped watching wrestling for a long time after returning thanks to ONS II.

I think I'll try to do my writeup for 2005 tonight. Lots of surprises. And lots of gems from Velocity.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flux said:


> Tbf I'd take Lashley/MVP/King over E/Woods/Kofi any day of the week, and I'm not even a fan of any of the TNA guys particularly.


It basically comes down to Woods vs King for me, tbhayley. And lol Lashley. He's a twit. I like the idea of a BLACK POWER stable & good for Woods to actually get something worthwhile, but it is too bad his associates are a waste of time. Well, Langston as a non-pushed muscle is fine. I think he comes off better _(rather, more effective as a suitable term)_ a silent heel anyways. Kofi though. Ha. That guy as a heel is going to be a chuckle. I hope he replaces every springboard w/a chinlock. The Sin Cara to Hunico routine. 

:thecause soooooooo happy this was added


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I was certainly not a fan of ECW, but there are quite a few good matches here and there spread across the year. The Bob Holly/RVD match stands out in particular. And yeah, it did have some stupid shit like "The Zombie" and other one-time characters that showed up just to get killed by Sandman and never show up again.

And really, the amount of time I spent watching Vito in that entire year wouldn't add up to 1 minute. :lol Every time his music hit, I would skip to the end and move on. Made the show easier to watch.

SD 2006 further strengthens your theory that everything with Benoit is better. Shows are awesome until May and they become average after he gets injured. It slowly picks up after the summer and gets REALLY good again when he returns in October. Gotta say I did enjoy them loosening up the brand extension and having Cena show up a few times here and there was fun, specially when he wrestled Finlay one on one in December.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

2006 SmackDown is phenomenal for match quality but they had utter pinheads doing everything else like feuds and gimmicks.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> XWT works just fine for me.
> Abusing lame Kobe smileys is probably the only trait you haven't ripped off of Cal.


Eh, I'd rather be known as a Cal wannabe then seemingly being legitimately in love with Orton and Benoit :draper2


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

You seem rather offended by a tongue-in-cheek comment.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

I fight fire with fire :lelbron


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Just shut up & go back to talking about wrestling. 

Thanks.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

AMBROSE VS. ROLLINS :mark:

Gonna go watch their FCW series for like the 5th time now


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Good Lord, the spot calling during the Ziggler/Miz RAW match was the worst I've ever heard. It was so overt that I then begin noticing all of the times that they were attempting to cover their mouths to talk.

Miz said "I'll roll you up" as if he were on mic. :lol

Aside from that, it was a good and fun match.

Reminded me of the fact that during that great Barrett/Ziggler match from RAW a little while back, you could hear Barrett say to Ziggler "they're hot, brother." This was when the crowd was going absolutely nuts for the match. Made me smile, because it's nice to hear that they make little encouraging comments like that to each other, rather than just spot calling.

Heyman's promo last nice was aces, btw. Made me excited for the Cena/Lesnar match. He deserves a raise. Bet he sold a lot of people on that match last night.

Though it shows you how much genuine passion plays a part in how good ones work is or isn't.


----------



## Magic (Feb 28, 2009)

why cant i click on pages 146 and 147?


i also liked that match at WMXX with triple H, HBK and shadowman. im glad shadowman won, his ring work was truly amazing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hidden gem alert. This rules so much. Spike Dudley put on a career performance.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well it is WWF '01. Hot property.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Upload some may have missed:


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Ranch Dressing said:


> why cant i click on pages 146 and 147?


b/c u r loozer


*BATTLEGROUND 2014: where they do BATTLE*

*Pre-show*: didn't watch lol

*Usos/Wyatts who aren't Wyatts*: superkick/10, lulzy match tho some of the nearfalls were decent.

*Diva Champion*: fast forwarded, didn't look good. AJ won maybe?

*Ambrose/Rollins segments*: Pretty good build-up. Amrbose was killer at least.

*Swagger/Rusev*: solid match, though I didn't pay much attention till the finish. I'll watch the rematch.

*Jericho/Real Wyatt*: Jericho won, which was surprising. So yay!

*Intercontinental Championship Over the Top Rope Battle Royale*: probably enjoyed this the most out of all the matches. That's a fucking tragedy.

*4 Way*: same match as the opener - tag team + cena trolljob. WOAT

only bork can save this nao.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Its great to have Brock back, but im feeling a little uneasy at the situation atm. I mean they give Brock the win at SS, fantastic, but then what happens at NOC? He loses to Cena. 

I don't want Brock to just have a 4 week title run, although i suppose its better than nothing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

If BORK is only going to be champion for 4 weeks, he might as well not even win the title.

He needs to keep the title until WrassleMania. Wheater we like it or not, Roman Reigns is the guy that they'll push to beat him there (making him basically another Streak breaker when you think about it), and they don't want to have their "Next Big Thing" not be made a star by beating THE Next Big Thing, The Beast Incarnate himself. I guess this is how BORK's reign should go:
Night Of Champions: vs Cena
Survivor Series: vs Bryan (if he's back), if not then Orton I guess
Royal Rumble: vs Orton
WM 31: vs Reigns

Pretty simple.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Orton does diddly shit now so all of a sudden he's going to work vs Brock in a fantasy scenario? That sounds like WWE, so nevermind.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Should be Sheamus, I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about a possible Celtic Warrior vs Beast Incarnate match-up.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Everyone is getting giddy (rightfully so) about Brock beating Cena at SS, but what about NOC, that is what is concerning me TBH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

NOC will surely be a rematch against Cena, and I hope to God they do NOT kill the title reign there.

And I mentioned Orton not because of the fantasy aspect, but because they don't really have anyone else much of credible outside of Cena and Bryan, and Orton is bound a 1-on-1 rematch anyway, so I guess he'd be a choice. Plus, it'd be interesting to see Orton, who barely bumps nowadays, be Lesnar's bitch and sell like it's 2006 for once.

Also, I believe a few pages back, there was a Orton/Bryan match discussion. Yeah I believe the reason they had a lot of negative feedback for their series was for the fact that their series was just not what those two were capable of, even though their matches were never bad per say (their Street Fight was pretty damn good imho). That kind of classic was only given to us in December last year, and again in February this year though not as much as in Dec..


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

On Bryan/Orton: it's a weird thing, because I didn't care for any of the 3 ppv matches, but _every_ free match I remember (4) was at minimum, a ***1/2+ match. The Street Fight and their last Raw match of 2013 are in the **** territory for me. I don't know if it was the gimmick finishes or what, but the ppv stuff always had weird sequences and timing. Like hitting heavy/signature moves less than 5min in and rushed ending stretches. There's also a little viewer fatigue (they wrestled at least 7 televised singles matches in 12mo), but overall just killed it way mo' betta on free TV. Their last Raw match in 2013 was great - top 10-12 WWE MOTY. Orton with the knee bite and a perfectly timed low blow finish which caught the crowd at their emotional peak and then the boos reigned down from the heavens (rafters) depite it being the 6-7th encounter in a 6-7mo span. People wanted to jump shit about it being a stale pairing, and that turned heads. it was also about the time people got back on the Orton bandwagon. Really excellent stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I personally didn't even mind the PPV trilogy. The worst match was probably the Battleground one thanks to the contender for worst ending ever, but everything before was going along well. NOC I thought was good, and HIAC was very good for the 1st half, sucky for the 2nd, averages out solid I guess. But Orton/Bryan are definitely all about the TV matches. Especially December 2013. If there ever was a "time machine dream match" where Orton in his prime would go against a game Bryan, it was definitely that one. Top 10 MOTY for 2013 definitely as far as I'm concerned. February 2014 was also excellent - dem facial expressions - but December was Orton at his absolute best and it payed off. Makes it the more sad when you think that Orton has this kind of skill and potential but rarely does he ever show it off. Other than the two masterclasses from December and February though, the Street Fight was also great, and I remember adoring their first match on Smackdown in 2012.

Has anyone watched Swagger/Rusev II from Main Event? I've heard it was even better than the Battleground one.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Prefer the Feb 14 match to all of them, wont see much better limberwork in a wwe match than that


Rusev/Swagger was solid, a nice continuation as both men attacked each others injury from Battleground. Got more time than last night as well, I may prefer Battleground though.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Listings for the upcioming Sting set:



> Disc 1
> 
> Bringing the Game Up a Level
> 
> ...


:lmao the set looks terrible. I mean, I wasn't expecting anything good... but this is hilariously bad. Except for ONE match:

Sting, Barry Windham, Ricky Steamboat & Dustin Rhodes vs. The Dangerous Alliance (Rick Rude, Larry Zbyszko, Arn Anderson & Bobby Eaton)
WCW World Championship Wrestling • February 22, 1992

:mark: dammit now I have to buy the Bluray .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Sting vs. Great Muta (Power hour), nice to see that on there.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao The Invasion angle started off so hot after the two MSG shows after King of the Ring. But then by the next week, it became terrible. And all blame should fall on that Buff Bagwell vs. Booker T "match". I would love someone to convince me that Buff Bagwell was not worse than The Great Khali. I can certainly name more enjoyable Khali matches than Bagwell ones.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

On house shows they tested Booker/Buff and they sucked. They also tested Booker/Storm which was said to be good. In the end they went with Booker/Buff because they thought Buff had more of a WCW "feel" to him than Lance Storm did.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

So a WCW "feel" means wrestling like dogshit? :lol It's a shame too, because Booker T and DDP had a pretty good match on the Smackdown that same week. My god, what a mess. You have to feel for Arn Anderson as he tried to justify everything Bagwell was doing in that ring.

EDIT: :lmao Even in the WWE version of WCW, there are still unnecessary swerves that make no sense. DDP attacks Shane McMahon for no reason, and then the WCW midcarders beat up Booker T.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Sting set is not coming with a documentary, is it? Gonna be just like the Goldberg set last year I guess.

And regarding Orton/Bryan: I definitely think they get far too much shit but at the same time, it's understandable because they never had that awesome classic until December. Their PPV matches were all underwhelming because something was just not clicking or they had stupid finishes. NOC turned out to be the best of the bunch while Battleground suffered from dead crowd and worst ending ever. HIAC never really took off but it's understandable that having a good cell match nowadays is near impossible.

I recently rewatched their December match and as much as I like it, I have to say I'm with the 3/2/2014 match for their absolute best. Just love that match so much. Only didn't like Orton jobbing clean as champion but that's not important to the quality.



ATF said:


> Survivor Series: vs Bryan (if he's back), if not then Orton I guess
> Royal Rumble: vs Orton


:mark: :mark: :mark:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

So.....Jim Ross just announced he is taping an interview with Stan fucking Hansen for his podcast. Hot dog that's gonna be fucking awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> So.....Jim Ross just announced he is taping an interview with Stan fucking Hansen for his podcast. Hot dog that's gonna be fucking awesome.


Sting is on next week isn't he?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I believe yes he is, Fab.

I hadn't noticed this, but so far, 2014 is definitely the greatest year for PPV openers ever. At least for the WWE side of things. Look at this:

RR: Bryan/Wyatt - ****1/4
EC: Big E/Swagger - ***
ARV: Cesaro/Zayn - ****3/4
WM: HHH/Bryan - ****1/4
ER: RVD/Swagger/Cesaro - **3/4
TO: Rose/Camacho - **
PB: Sheamus/Cesaro - ***3/4
MITB: Usos/Wyatts - ***3/4
BG: Usos/Wyatts - ***3/4

2 out of 9 matches were under ***, one of those at **3/4 which is pretty much up there. And 6 out of 9 matches were ***3/4+, one of them at a near ***** rating. When was the last time PPV openers were THIS good constantly?


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

one of those under *** matches was not from a real ppv (as in you couldn't pay per view as you can the others), same for the near ***** match.


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

> I picked up WCW's Greatest PPV Matches and this set was complete rushjob. The repeat matches are still in their original censored version so A LOT of them have the entrances cut and fade out at the same point.
> 
> 
> Luger, Austin, Vader, Hart, and Goldberg's themes are still dubbed.
> ...


With all this said, I await Vol. 2 with even lower expectations!


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> On house shows they tested Booker/Buff and they sucked. They also tested Booker/Storm which was said to be good. In the end they went with Booker/Buff because they thought Buff had more of a WCW "feel" to him than Lance Storm did.


It was Buff that convinced them to put him in the match, right? He said that he was a big and recognizable star in WCW.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

The GOAT match rematch happening at 'Slam :mark:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

C'mon, Jericho vs. Wyatt wasn't THAT great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bullshit, ff. He is one day too late about that actually - Swagger/Rusev II took place last night.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Totally getting the Sting set. Half the reason being b/c Sweet Stan Lane got a match on it. Did Sting vs Eaton ever happen? I feel like I should know this already, but I'll be damned how hard it is to kind of document all of the early WCW TV stuff via it being harder to find than any other big promotion in the world.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So, going by my own standards, Lesnar is set for his next match to be a MOTYC. He's been literally on-and-off with his match quality since the return. Let me show you:

Extreme Rules 2012 vs. Cena - **** 1/2
Summerslam 2012 vs. HHH - ** 1/2
WrestleMania 29 vs. HHH - ****
Extreme Rules 2013 Cage match vs. HHH - ** 1/2
Summerslam 2013 vs. Punk - ****+
Royal Rumble 2014 vs. Big Show - ** (although I don't count this one because it was a good segment moreso than a match)
WrestleMania XXX vs. Taker - ** 1/4

Time for Lesnar to have another **** match with Cena. 

Although some of you screw that up because you actually liked those other two boring matches with Hunter...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cage match & vs Undertaker were great, so yeah that list is all funky.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You're a strange man to pinpoint, Mr. Seydoux.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A loose cannon, if I may add to the compliment.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

LESNAR since his return:

vs. Cena ER 12 ****1/4
vs. HHH SS 12 ***
vs. HHH WM29 *
vs. HHH ER 13 **1/2
vs. Punk SS 13 ****3/4
vs. Big Show RR 14 *1/4
vs. Undertaker WM30 ***

Looking forward to round 2 vs. Cena. Hopefully another ****+ match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm pretty confident that Mr. Cody will hate the Lesnar/HHH cage match on a rewatch. And Punk/Lesnar is more than just "*****+*".

Sting and Eaton had matches against each other. First half of that Sting set looks great. Second half looks like Buff Bagwell.

Say what you want about Kurt Angle (and I've said a lot), but man. Watching him wrestle as a babyface is delectable. Whenever I watch babyface Angle in the ring, I can't help but think that this man is near the top tier. His style just works so well as someone you want to get behind. Dude had three good-great matches with Booker T in 2001 worth checking out.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I haven't watched Punk/Lesnar since it aired. Even on the first viewing I thought it was great, but I liked Cena/Bryan more. Several sequences throughout Punk/Lesnar were far too predictable (stuff with the steel chair, the prolonged Heyman beatdown, etc.) and I never felt like Punk had a true chance of winning with those weak looking submissions. Im definitely gonna watch it again soon though to prep for Lesnar's return but if I got higher than **** 1/4, I'll be shocked. Pretty sure Taker/Punk won't be overthrown as my MOTY, but who knows.

Keep in mind I had anywhere from 5-7 beers in me while watching Summerslam last year though. DAMN fun night. Fuckin Randy Orton had to ruin it...


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I keep Brock/Punk as **** and I've rewatched that match probably more than any other match since it happened. Just too much predictability as Jack said and too much Heyman interference.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/Lesnar CAGE is very good, all the rest of their series are DUDS


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Punk/Lesnar was a ****1/2 bout in my book, while Bryan/Cena reached the ****3/4 mark. HHH/Lesnar cage match was great, ***1/2 after the last rewatch


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

funnyfaces1 said:


> C'mon, Jericho vs. Wyatt wasn't THAT great.


aj/piage, you simpleton


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I already rewatched Brock vs Trips & that's how I know it is great. Live airing I thought it was a bore. But that PPV was so bad it sucked the life out of me. Didn't notice all of Brock's glory at first. That is up there for me w/those one man matches that are really good/great. Brock & Cesaro doing the deed in the same year.

Brock vs Punker is perfect. Never will leave me.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

watched Shield/Evolution ER again, and in my initial review, I gave this """3/4 saying this was on the edge of greatness but not great. Well, I always appreciated the youth/energy vs experience/divide and conquer story ultimately leading to pride being the fall told here but missed some excellent little details to christen the story. Orton's eye contact and smirk to the opposing team from across the ring to stir he young firey opponents and draw a little heat was brilliant. I also didnt notice some small selling details to highlight the story like ambrose thrashing his head to try to escape a headloc instead of the classic technical, timed escape and especially a point where Rollins hits a back suplex and in the second before pain set in, orton scooted just a smidge closer to the Shield's corner to make the tag that much harder to make for Seth. This just goes on top of the obvious spots and strategy i saw at first and aga, and when coupled with a beautiful progression in the match made me realize this is a great match. Not borderline, straight great despite some telegraphing and a bit awkward ending. """"1/4 now.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

BORK's return matches:

vs Cena - ★★★★¾
vs HHH I - ★★★¼
vs HHH II - ★★★
vs HHH III - ★★★★
vs Punk - ★★★★½
vs Big Show - 0
vs Taker - ★★★¼

He has indeed been on and off.

On the subject of Kurt Angle, I went through the Benoit pack I mentioned a while back and there was this match between the two from 2002 on SD that I checked out... and it was absolutely fantastic!

xt8ccf


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

Lesnar Vs. Helmsley at SummerSlam is the best match of their trilogy. Even though it was No DQ, the match was practically straight up wrestling with Lesnar getting the clean win over The Game by making him tap out in 6 years.

Wrestlemania 29 was just Helmsley going through the motions with his gimmick formula to get his needless win back.

The steel cage match was good with both men booked in traditional fashion and the right guy won the rubber match and feud.

- Vic


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brock being wounded and fighting from behind was anything but traditional.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey guys, I was wrong. :$

*No Disqualification*
CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar (_Summerslam 2013_)

I have no idea what the hell was wrong with me last year when I saw this, but this is quite literally perfect in every aspect. Punk instantly comes out swinging and charging at Lesnar, who simply catches him and throws him around like a rag doll. Punk takes the beating of a fucking LIFETIME before pulling out all the stops and taking numerous risks to inflict pain on the monstrous Lesnar. The middle portion with the submissions is way fucking better than I originally remembered. Lesnar looked like he was legit gonna tap and I can't believe I'm saying that. Heyman's interference near the end was timed perfectly and everything went smooth aside from the small blemish where Punk takes a little too much time to punish Heyman and it costs him. They did everything right in this without going overboard. They never spammed finishers, they had just the right amount of nearfalls and teases, and both guys got their fucking heads rocked. The F5 Punk took onto the chair was completely insane. Without a doubt one of the best matches in company history and a serious contender for MOTD to this point. *******

Also, *Christian vs. Del Rio *from the same night still gets **** 3/4* from me. Great sprint with some nasty head kicks and a great finishing stretch. The actual finish was so well done. Know what the best part of the whole match was though? The amount of times Del Rio smacked himself in the chest. :lol Love that guy.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Everyone watch Benoit vs Albert from No Mercy of 03, absolute glory. Benoit makes his opponent look a million bucks.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Everyone watch Benoit vs Albert from No Mercy of 03, absolute glory. Benoit makes his opponent look a million bucks.


Except when he gets dropped neck first on that steel chair. 

Am I in a good wrestling mood or something tonight? Just finished *Cena vs. Bryan *again and MOTHERFUCKER I'm goin ***** 3/4*. Completely unlike any other Cena title match. The way Cena actually used his size to his advantage was a total breath of fresh air. Crowd got behind Bryan so much. Such an emotional night. That fucking Randy Orton...


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Del Rio vs. Christian was damn good technical wrestling, just a shade below their Smackdown match broadcasted 9 days earlier.

My only issue, and it's a nitpick, with Lesnar vs. Punk is there was no reaction at at the finish, and that seems to be a trend for Lesnar's matches.

Cena vs. D-Bry couldn't quite keep up with Lesnar vs. Punk but it was still fucking tremendous, and it was the first time when I noticed that Danielson had dropped the "WHOA" teases for the surfboard. He really should utilize that again to engage the crowd even more.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

CM Punk vs Brock - PERFECTION
Del Rio vs Christian - Near PERFECTION. Like tiny fraction off incredible.
Cena vs Danielson - Just about as near PERFECTION as Del Rio/Christian, but I tend to prefer the former a touch more.

Still a beautiful trifecta.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Except when he gets dropped neck first on that steel chair.
> 
> Am I in a good wrestling mood or something tonight? Just finished *Cena vs. Bryan *again and MOTHERFUCKER I'm goin ***** 3/4*. Completely unlike any other Cena title match. The way Cena actually used his size to his advantage was a total breath of fresh air. Crowd got behind Bryan so much. Such an emotional night. That fucking Randy Orton...


Looks like I know exactly what you should watch next. Cena actually wrestled that style where he used his size to his advantage back in 2011 against Punk and Mysterio. Specifically, the Punk Summerslam match is the closest thing imaginable in terms of style and quality to the Bryan match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Just watched Punk/Bryan/Kane from NWO 12, I get the sense of on the fly calls in this match. Seemed very rushed and last second, fun nonetheless. Though I expected more from such a combination, would even say Show/Cena/Punk and Ryback/Cena/Punk are better.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't worry, if that match didn't satisfy you, try Christian/Cody or Sheamus/Ziggler from the same show.

Punk/Cena/Ryback should get more praise than it has tbh, it's not just because... you know... :ambrose2 :rollins :reigns, but also because before that, it was actually going along pretty well.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Its fun, but it did drop down in quality for me after the few watches. Dunno if I'd have the SummerSlam three way over it, but probs def the Survivor Series one. I really dug that match.

Fun fact I just realized: Rusev has had my favorite or most preferred match on three out of the last four WWE PPVs following WM. Interesting. Payback was the only time it didn't work for me. Bad match & considering the only thing on it I enjoyed was Sheamus vs Cesaro, yeah. Wasn't gonna happen regardless.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

John Morrison vs Rey Mysterio (Smackdown 09.04.2009)



Had a request.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rey/Morrison is my go-to match when we talk about the awesomeness of the Intercontinental Championship world circa 2009. Not even the Jericho matches tbh, but that. Morrison's career match right there. And probably the last great IC Title match before Christian/Cody at NWO 2012. Hell, I've seen some outsiders say the last great one before Barrett/Ziggler from this year. Not sure if it was better than Christian/Cody, but Barrett/Ziggler was definitely a giant blast (***3/4 worthy for me).

Oh, and Cody, good that you realized that Rusev is the next big thing indeed. Shame that you didn't like the shower of FUN that was the Payback match with Big E, but to each his own. Didn't suspect that the R-Truth match was your favorite out of Extreme Rules, thought it would've been something like Bryan/Kane, Big E/Barrett or WeeLC.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Has there been a Sheamus/Rusev match yet? Perhaps randomly on RAW?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

:ambrose2 (know what that means right?). Supposedly there was gonna be one on Main Event this week, but that got ditched for Swagger/Rusev II.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)




----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't worry. The WWE won't avoid that match for too long. Until then, let us see Rusev DEATHKICK~ everyone to fucking Mars until we get the FISTFEST between the two of them.

Anyway, I've just checked out that pre-show match poll I did yesterday, and Torito/Hornswoggle WeeLC is leading over Shield/Usos MITB :lol On one hand I can't blame those guys a single bit, but on the other, it is Shield/Usos we're talking about folks...


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I liked Rusev since his debut on NXT vs Dolph last year. Made man after one match. Technically it could have started when I saw him live for the NXT show during Axcess(sp?) for SummerSlam b/c he looked cool, broke a board, & beat up Mojo Rawley. The Squash from ER was effective & done well to put him over. Only other thing on it that wasn't poor was Danielson vs Kane, which was just rather flat and nothing worth talking about. Bad show. Not that it is a slight on the match, but when the squash is your best, you flubbed up.

Finished Main Event. Interesting5 th6ing5s were around:

Swagger vs Rusev was good. Everything associated w/this is flat out good. Genuine fun to watch. 

Rollins showcase match vs Fandango was odd on paper, but ended up working out well. That was pleasing. Still, kind of showed how thin things are atm. 

Ryback vs Jimmy Uso was awful. But what left me intrigued was how it felt like Ryback may go babyface & Usos may go heel. Fans even chanted "Feed Me More" as he went for the Meat Hook & he acknowledged it. Toss in that w/the fact the Usos got a really bizarre demotion of an entrance - in regards to being less interactive - and a less than bubbly approach as they entered/while Jimmy was working. Body language as if they didn't want to be there. Stalling portion w/the smug look on his face threw me off. w/all these alignment changes happening right now, I wonder if this was a way to show yet another. I could be looking WAY too much into this & it be nothing, but it was worth a comment.

Team BLACK RAGE came out & I was like "yeah, this could work". My need to be a sucker for the Nation of Domination came out. Then the match happened. Uhh. Please don't tell me they are staying a babyface/tweener bit b/c that's a no no. Make em heel. At least give Woods that. b/c this match was really awkward. Slater cuts a face promo w/Titus. They work like heels. Woods pumps up Kofi & E and they work like faces until the very end w/the crummy double team move. Fans still gave a little pop for the blacks after they won. WWE better press on this issue soon b/c it is confusing. Heath Slater getting a lot of mic time again is fine by me. He's probably going to stay a babyface from now on. Or at least tweener to be jobbed out to anyone on the proper night. He should be. He's a good lower card guy that can get a reaction from fans & be good to throw round as the punching bag. Dunno if this duo w/Titus w/be a continued gag, but we'll see. Titus needs to be something. Maybe he'll join BLACK RAGE for better credibility. He can work meaner than both the other two anyways. Titus can also be goofy so this role w/Slater may work out if stretched.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Black Rage needs some Mark Henry, that's all. And going full heel with Henry as the leader :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I was actually very surprised when I first watched the Rusev/Truth & Woods match, because I didn't care for Rusev then, I just thought he'd wind up being the millionth foreign monster heel, but I have a policy of watching every single match on PPV wheater I like it or not. (The suffering in many cases...) And when I didn't skip that, I was honestly shocked at how awesomely well Rusev was carrying that whole thing in his back. That, and the Big E matches, made me an instant fan of the guy. Plus, you know, LANA. She's both good and :yum:.

Obviously, I didn't think everything else at ER sucked myself (it was better than last year's by a mile tbh) - well, except for Paige/Tamina and Cena/Wyatt which was pretty much a DUD -, and I do understand completely why Shield/Evolution was as critically acclaimed as it was  - can't say the same about the bleh rematch though. But I would think you would've liked Barrett carrying of sorts Big E or the WeeLC matches as well .

But back to Rusev, yeah, I completely agree that this Swagger feud is one of the hottest and most well done programs around. I thought the Battleground match, while underwhelming considering my high expectations for it, was perfectly fine. Do you recommend this one better?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He'll probably be the reason why Titus won't join. Fine by me b/c HENRY, but if only Kofi was out and Titus was in. I'd be super sold on it. Good mouthpiece & the smaller, speedy guy, dominate force to build around, & two midcard muscle. C'mon, WWE. Right the wrong. It's still early. 8*D

EDIT - nah, Swagger vs Rusev from Battleground was better. That match ruled.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

CM Punk vs Ryback (Raw 01.07.2013) (TLC Match)



* By request


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

That's a swell match right there ^^^

For the sake of comparing similar matches, Punk/Ryback TLC or Punk/Henry Post-WM?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> That's a swell match right there ^^^
> 
> For the sake of comparing similar matches, Punk/Ryback TLC or Punk/Henry Post-WM?


Similar matches?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Similar matches?


Wrestlers involved, on paper etc.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ahhh, ok. Punk Vs Big Strong Opponent. Makes sense that way lol.

Henry/Punk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryback/Punk, and I'm a big fan of that TLC. But the first and third matches in that Henry/Punk TV series were tremendous. Helped that Henry is a fucking beast while Ryback essentially needed to be carried through the entire match.

Might finish Armageddon 2005 today. Stopped during the second match yesterday. I was enjoying it but not really paying it as much attention as I would have liked, and ended up not writing anything for about 5 minutes .


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Ahhh, ok. Punk Vs Big Strong Opponent. Makes sense that way lol.
> 
> Henry/Punk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryback/Punk, and I'm a big fan of that TLC. But the first and third matches in that Henry/Punk TV series were tremendous. Helped that Henry is a fucking beast while Ryback essentially needed to be carried through the entire match.
> 
> Might finish Armageddon 2005 today. Stopped during the second match yesterday. I was enjoying it but not really paying it as much attention as I would have liked, and ended up not writing anything for about 5 minutes .


:lol

Armageddon 05 is alright, Hardy/JBL and Taker/Orton are the only things I remember that are worth anything. Hell, JBL had a good match (imo) with Lashley at NWO 06.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I can't wait to finish up these final 2 05 PPV's and revisit 06. Well, mostly revisit. Didn't finish Raw last time . But I did do all of SD, and this is what I said about JBL/Lashley:

*Bobby Lashley Vs JBL - No Way Out February 19th 2006*

Before the match, Finlay kidnaps Kristal backstage and brings her out to the ring because he is looking for a fight. Lashley comes out for the save, and they brawl. While this brawl is happening, JBL comes out to take advantage, but Lashley takes care of Finlay before Bradshaw can do anything.

So, since JBL couldn't get in a 2 on 1 situation with Lashley to gain control... he sticks his thumb into Big Bob's eye instead . Shame its going to take more than a thumb to beat Lashley!

Fun stuff on the outside with JBL trying everything he can to gain control, including using Jillian as a shield. Bobby is unstoppable though, and quickly begins to suplex JBL all over the place (belly to belly in the ring, stalling suplex in the ring that looked like it reaaaallllyyyy hurt lol).

Being a veteran, JBL eventually manages to find a way to turn the tide, and when he does, he gets a VERY loud "JBL Sucks" chant from the crowd. What an awesome heel he was lol.

Holy shit! JBL just hit a... a... a TOP ROPE ELBOW DROP! I'm fucking serious! JBL. Fat Bastard. Top Rope. Elbow Drop. I guess he realises that Lashley is one big powerful bastard and he needs to do everything in his power to put him away.

JBL's simple but brutal offence is doing a great job of keeping the young rookie Lashley at bay, but Lashley's power is always there for him to make numerous comeback attempts. We see more of JBL going for moves he probably wouldn't and shouldn't go for, in order to put his opponent down for good, but the power of Big Bob really makes an impact when he reverses a top rope move from Bradshaw into a powerslam, and so the big comeback begins!

Man I love suplexes. And I love Lashley's suplexes. JBL probably hates them at this point though .

Hey, remember Finlay earlier? Well, he's baaaaaaaaack! Throws the ring announcer in the ring which distracts the ref, then takes out Lashley allowing JBL to end the winning streak of Bob!

Definitely didn't remember this match being good at all, but that's one of the reasons I decided to go through the entire SD 2006. I got hold of all the shows for my collection, started watching a couple to see what they were like, and ended up falling in love with the roster and the matches. So I had to keep on going. This is just one of the MANY matches I would find to like that I wouldn't expect to or didn't remember doing so to begin with.

*Rating: **1/2*


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

***1/4 would be about right for me. JBL/Taker from a Smackdown somewhere in 08 or 09, I forget is really good as well. Much better than that LastRide match (ewww).


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Last ride match is awesome, don't be hating!

SD 08 or 09 you say? *looks* March 20th 2009, SD 500 show. Don't remember that one. They also have 2 great matches on SD in 05.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> That's a swell match right there ^^^
> 
> For the sake of comparing similar matches, Punk/Ryback TLC or Punk/Henry Post-WM?


Punk/Ryback is really good, and an example of how well Punk can carry a wrestler. This match should be mentioned alongside Cesaro/Kingston and Lesnar/HHH as one-man shows of 2013.

But despite all that, it pales in comparison to Punk/Henry. That match is one of the most well-structured matches I've ever seen from North America. Certainly an all-time favorite. Henry put on a heel control segment of a lifetime, while Punk timed his comebacks so well. When Punk finally got his big comeback in, you really wanted him to take down the giant, but it all came at a cost when he hurt himself on the elbow drop. Excellent selling of the back from Punk that was based on the work from the night before against Jericho. I would even go as far as to say that this match is better than all but one Misawa vs. Kobashi match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Ryback is really good, and an example of how well Punk can carry a wrestler. This match should be mentioned alongside Cesaro/Kingston and Lesnar/HHH as one-man shows of 2013.
> 
> But despite all that, it pales in comparison to Punk/Henry. That match is one of the most well-structured matches I've ever seen from North America. Certainly an all-time favorite. Henry put on a heel control segment of a lifetime, while Punk timed his comebacks so well. When Punk finally got his big comeback in, you really wanted him to take down the giant, but it all came at a cost when he hurt himself on the elbow drop. Excellent selling of the back from Punk that was based on the work from the night before against Jericho. I would even go as far as to say that this match is better than all but one Misawa vs. Kobashi match.



The highest compliment I can give Punk/Henry is that it was giving me flashbacks of one of my all time favorite matches, Eddie/Show from SD 2004. The 1st and 3rd Punk/Henry matches both make my top 10 for 2012, just fabulous, incredibly physical matches. Can't say enough good things about them, I just watched them both about a week ago.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Unpopular opinion time...I don't think Mark Henry is anything special and those Punk matches are completely forgettable OH SNAP. Don't worry, I activated the flame suit. Fire away. 

:draper2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just rewatched *HHH vs. Lesnar in the Cage *for the 3rd and the final time I'd imagine. I liked it better than the other two times but it still lacks in eliciting a major reaction out of me. The work is fine by Hunter on the leg (actually I loved the figure 4 and sharpshooter), Brock's selling is obviously wonderful, but the middle portion gets incredibly repetitive (just like their Summerslam match). I used to have a problem with the fact that Brock had to even sell the leg and act like he was injured, ya know, because he's BROCK LESNAR THE BEAST, but that doesn't really bother me anymore. The nearfall after the pedigree late in the match finally woke the crowd up from their snooze. Good match but nothing more for me. I'll go **** *for it. Still think their WrestleMania encounter is the best of the trio.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Looks like I know exactly what you should watch next. Cena actually wrestled that style where he used his size to his advantage back in 2011 against Punk and Mysterio. Specifically, the Punk Summerslam match is the closest thing imaginable in terms of style and quality to the Bryan match.


Summerslam vs. Punk is on my upcoming list. Wanna go through a lot of the more recent Summerslams.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Has there been a Sheamus/Rusev match yet? Perhaps randomly on RAW?


No and I hope they save it for a semi-big stage. PPV battle at least. Sounds so MANLY.

Punk/Henry is > Punk/Ryback TLC. Haven't seen either since they aired.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Well, this is, like, a month overdue. 

*(Probably Not) The Top WWE matches of 2008*

Chavo Guerrero vs Evan Bourne (14/10 ECW)
William Regal vs CM Punk (28/12 MSG House Show)
Evan Bourne vs Matt Hardy (Cyber Sunday)
Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk (Armageddon)
Fit Finlay vs Mark Henry (16/09 ECW)
Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry (19/08 ECW)
JBL vs Fit Finlay (Wrestlemania)
Fit Finlay vs Mark Henry (14/04 ECW)
Undertaker vs Festus (11/04 Smackdown)
Rey Mysterio vs Evan Bourne (27/10 Raw)
Floyd Mayweather vs Big Show (Wrestlemania)
Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania)
William Regal vs CM Punk (28/07)
Big Show vs The Undertaker (Cyber Sunday)
Evan Bourne vs Finlay vs Mark Henry (21/10 ECW)
William Regal vs CM Punk (21/04 Raw)
Edge vs The Undertaker (Wrestlemania)
William Regal vs Finlay (21/04 Raw)
Jeff Hardy vs Umaga (One Night Stand)
Jeff Hardy vs Umaga (Raw)











Listening to Matt Striker on commentary
Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (No Mercy)



The list doesn't feel right, though. I'm almost positive the top two matches really were the best from the promotion, but the fall in quality after them is pretty steep. The next clump is a bunch of really good TV matches, but I'm not sure they're much more than that - nor is there much of a difference between them. With how great Finlay and Bourne looked, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more TV outings that would slightly change the latter half of that top 10. I, of course, didn't review every show and PPV, but I did try and skim through match listings to find matches that should have delivered. Some I left out, as I didn't bother finishing, others I did but disliked (bottom three), so those are more there just cos rather than actually being a top 20 match. I enjoyed the bottom three Regal matches, even if they barely got four minutes a pop. They worked well for short matches and got a lot more out of their time than most of the PPV matches WWE was putting out. The longer KotR final match with Punk is cool, but their house show is spectacular.

I'm sure most will wonder at some obvious exclusions. Stylistically, I don't enjoy this product, and am rather glad that the WWE approach to PPV matches has slightly changed since 2008. The problem I had was that they do too many high spots, at the start of the match, and try to build a memorable finishing run, that it leaves the middle half void. On occasion that works. Show/'Taker definitely worked from that degree. Most of the time, though, it leaves matches with an odd pacing and, even then, it doesn't quite do the "epic" finishing run as well as other promotions have. Because of that, I didn't bother with most of the PPVs or rematches of what I had seen. Either way, 2008 seemed like a rather weak year and I'm not sure it would rank that high globally. Still, I suppose the average TV output was good if my relatively small sample size is anything to go by (chalk that up to a handful of guys more than a stacked roster, as a majority of it sucked). Not a candle to 2013 or early 2014, though.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I do like the Hardy/HBK Raw match too TBH.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Punk/Ryback is really good, and an example of how well Punk can carry a wrestler. This match should be mentioned alongside Cesaro/Kingston and Lesnar/HHH as one-man shows of 2013.
> 
> But despite all that, it pales in comparison to Punk/Henry. That match is one of the most well-structured matches I've ever seen from North America. Certainly an all-time favorite. Henry put on a heel control segment of a lifetime, while Punk timed his comebacks so well. When Punk finally got his big comeback in, you really wanted him to take down the giant, but it all came at a cost when he hurt himself on the elbow drop. Excellent selling of the back from Punk that was based on the work from the night before against Jericho.* I would even go as far as to say that this match is better than all but one Misawa vs. Kobashi match.*


I'm 99% sure I'm completely misinterpreting the bolded, but the 1% of me needs to ask to make sure...

You didn't just call Punk/Henry the second greatest match of all time, did you? :hmm:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Started my 2006 project. :lmao at the Ric Flair road rage skit. Only good thing so far. And Joey Styles. But not Vince McMahon. I have no clue why he's angry at Shawn Michaels. Can they please feud over something better like shampoo commercials?

Punk's been compared to the likes of Savage, Austin, Piper, and others, but I really think Eddie is the best comparison. Punk/Henry does remind me of that incredible Show/Eddie 2004 match. Good look, cjack. But looking at Punk's WWE work, you can definitely see how much he is influenced by Eddie. Punk's 2009 work specifically takes a lot of the "conflicted heel" elements of Eddie's 1997/2005 run, but of course with Punk's own interpretation. Punk's babyface work is also very similar to Eddie's in that both guys are terrific at working from under and try to use sneakiness and underhanded tactics as babyfaces against heels. I would go as far as to say that Punk is the best storyteller the WWE had since Eddie.

Starbuck, I thought you loved Henry. Or at least his salmon-colored blazer.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Flux said:


> I'm 99% sure I'm completely misinterpreting the bolded, but the 1% of me needs to ask to make sure...
> 
> You didn't just call Punk/Henry the second greatest match of all time, did you? :hmm:


Believe me, when it comes to that match, he's mad enough to go any lenghts :

However, if anyone is to say that's the greatest Mark Henry match of all time, then I'd agree. Most will probably say the Cage match against Daniel Bryan deserves that honor better, but personally, "I OWN YOU" + incredible selling + awesome comebacks + crazy crowd + Jericho slipping in his own alcohol in the aftermath = something that's better than Henry/Bryan imo. But really, both are classics that should be worshipped by everyone and aren't out there because MOVEZ I guess.

And yeah, God bless Henry. THAT'S WHAT I DO~!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

WrestlingOracle said:


> watched Shield/Evolution ER again, and in my initial review, I gave this """3/4 saying this was on the edge of greatness but not great. Well, I always appreciated the youth/energy vs experience/divide and conquer story ultimately leading to pride being the fall told here but missed some excellent little details to christen the story. Orton's eye contact and smirk to the opposing team from across the ring to stir he young firey opponents and draw a little heat was brilliant. I also didnt notice some small selling details to highlight the story like ambrose thrashing his head to try to escape a headloc instead of the classic technical, timed escape and especially a point where Rollins hits a back suplex and in the second before pain set in, orton scooted just a smidge closer to the Shield's corner to make the tag that much harder to make for Seth. This just goes on top of the obvious spots and strategy i saw at first and aga, and when coupled with a beautiful progression in the match made me realize this is a great match. Not borderline, straight great despite some telegraphing and a bit awkward ending. """"1/4 now.


Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you use quotation marks rather than stars? Is your star button broken? lol.

So you went from *** 3/4 to **** 1/4. I like the attention you pay to details.


ETA: What's the date of the Punk/Henry match you're all raving about? Also, what's the date of the great Mysterio/Cena match?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

LilOlMe said:


> Out of curiosity, is there a reason why you use quotation marks rather than stars? Is your star button broken? lol.
> 
> So you went from *** 3/4 to **** 1/4. I like the attention you pay to details.
> 
> ...


Raw 4/2/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
Raw 4/9/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry
Raw 4/16/12 CM Punk vs Mark Henry

One of them.  EDIT: The 04/02/12 one i believe is the best.

Mysterio/Cena is 07/25/2011 i think.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

I don't hate him at all, FF. I actually enjoy his promos quite a bit and dat theme song is :mark:. But his matches are usually pretty boring for me. And that's not to say I can't get into them or anything but he's usually too slow and lumbering for me to say he's anything other than average. I'm also certain that during the Punk/Henry match everybody is talking about, the one on the Raw after Mania 28, that I went to get something to drink since I was there in person. Either that or I'm drawing a completely blank. Is that the same match where Jericho attacked him with the sugar glass?

Mysterio/Cena is :yes. I think it might be one of my favourite Cena matches ever actually. I love that thing.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I totally get the slow and boring match style argument, but he completely makes up for it in the terms of how well he tells a story. Just listen to his trash talking in the Punk match (which yes is the one after Mania 28, well the better one of the three that is). And the way that he works his elongated control segments. He takes his time to brutalize his opponent, and at the same time gloats about it like the true definition of a badasshole (a badass asshole for kids). Brilliant heel work right there. And the fact that he actually brings that kind of character work to almost every big situation he's in instantly makes him a huge fan of him. And I guess I speak for a lot of people here with that argument.

Oh and yes Mysterio/Cena is killer. While you're at it, check Mysterio/Miz from the same show. Pretty damn good stuff.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

During the Henry/Cena match last year, he actually sold losing his composure and ability to control Cena once the crowd started chanting "Sexual Chocolate". Who does that? Brilliant trash-talker, excellent micros wrestler and plays to his character perfectly. At 400lbs of muscle, he shouldn't be acting anything else but laboured.



LilOlMe said:


> ETA: What's the date of the Punk/Henry match you're all raving about? Also, what's the date of the great Mysterio/Cena match?


02/04/2012. Raw after Wrestlemania.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I'm a huge fan of Henry's in-ring work from 2011-2013 when he was clicking on all cylinders as a monster heel. His in-ring work was great, his character was great, his mic work was some solid stuff. I still remember when he was on commentary for a Bryan/Show match on Smackdown and he was going nuts on Cole pretty much the entire time. Gold.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> Well, this is, like, a month overdue.
> 
> *Top WWE matches of 2008*
> 
> ...


Probably too awful to even ask, but the final match is the Steel Cage from RAW, yes? They had a few other short matches that might not have made the cut in comparison to a longer, more complete bout that the Steel Cage got to be. Unless the five minute sprint tickled your fancy more. This is basically why I'm asking.

Flair vs Regal making it is kind of stunning. I thought that went five minutes and had a commercial in the middle of it. Perhaps I screwed that up w/something in latter '07 involving one of the two.

List looks strong w/most of the usual suspects giving what they could out from a dull year. Despite the match I usually jump to as my MOTY isn't even on the list 8*D _(Undertaker vs Show from No Mercy. FUCK)_


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Was at a buddies house earlier watching Orton/HHH 3 stages of hell on the network (haven't seen it in a while) ....... it was total meh material for me.

How many 3 stages of hell matches have their been? 4? HBK/HHH, Austin/HHH, Cena/Ryback, Orton/HHH. 

**1/2 for it.....It beats Cena/Ryback at least lol.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Despite the match I usually jump to as my MOTY isn't even on the list 8*D _(Undertaker vs Show from No Mercy. FUCK)_


WHAT?! I know Yeah mentioned they had a feud and specifically mentioned that Cyber Sunday match. I saw their ECW tv match and thought it ended there. Google didn't add anything else. Assumed, that was the payoff. I'm game for more - especially when the only reason why I put that match as low as I did, was due to not being too into 'Taker's performance. Chalk down not being a fan of the Dead man shtick, there, and its cop-out (okay not really) use for selling. His sit up is routine, but I'm not sure I can quite buy him being dozed, following a count, and then being completely okay in maintaining his balance for Old School. If people actively loved it, though, I ain't got no problems with that. Not a bad LMS, considering the penchant for shit that gimmick creates.

Flair/Regal went 3 minutes. Saw it listed as a suggested video and watched it (not paying attention to the duration shown). Not a bad three minutes, but that shows how much I did not like Umaga/Hardy and HBK/Jericho more than Flair/Regal being must-see. Might even move the ONS bout down, too. Entire thing is just them meandering out the building to set up that stupid senton spot. Cage match is the one on Raw, yeah.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

So was that list just ranking matches you saw instead of watching the entire year & putting together a full list? b/c now some of it makes more sense :lol Also if wanting to see one more Regal match you might have missed, vs Orton in England is rather awesome.

Undertaker vs Show had four matches in '08:

No Mercy
Cyber Sunday Last Man Standing Match
Survivor Series Casket Match (LOL at this, unfortunately)
Smackdown right before Armageddon Steel Cage Match (this was the payoff)


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Pretty much. Started watching the PPVs and was like "fuck this sucks" and stopped. Went with Yeah's list, and a few other people's. Subbed in a few matches I got from from elsewhere (WKO et.).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pieces all fall into place. Now I'm less alarmed by the lack of Taker vs Show or Show vs Hardy. or FESTUS VS KOSLOV.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Pfft, lazy Rah. Go back and watch more awesome shit and THEN post your list of best matches for 08!


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Thanks for the dates, all.

*Henry/Punk 4/2/12* was freakin' fantastic. I was surprised that I liked it that much, 'cause I generally feel this thread tends to overrated Henry & his matches...but that was pitch perfect, all around. Enjoyed every second of it.

What I liked most is that everything was so well timed. Punk's comebacks were perfect, and I love how Henry kept cutting everything off, once you expected Punk to finally get the upper hand.

This is weird, but it kind of reminded me of Cena/Bryan from Summerslam in some ways. Just the timing of the comebacks and the bursts were reminiscent of that. I'm really high on Cena/Bryan, btw. Storytelling was some of the best and most _different_ of John's career.

Henry/Punk was around **** 1/4.

Very impressive, especially considering that it could've just been a throwaway match, the night after WM.

LMAO @ Jericho slipping and falling on the alcohol. I seriously lmao at that.


*Cena/Mysterio 7/5/11* was also terrific. Loved Cena's counters. This was one of his better actual wrestling matches. Loved Rey's dropkick when Cena was going for those shoulder blocks. 

This was another match where everything was perfectly timed.

****+.

Glad I watched these!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Man, you guys weren't lying. Smackdown in 2006 was killer! Just look at this output in basically one month.

JBL vs. Matt Hardy (1/6): ***
Mark Henry vs. Three Jobbers (1/6): **3/4
Kid Kash vs. Juventud (1/6): ***
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton (1/6): ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (1/13): ****1/4
World Heavyweight Championship Battle Royal (1/13): ***1/2
Finlay vs. Matt Hardy (1/20): ***1/2
Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio (1/20): ***3/4
Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio (1/27): ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (1/27): ****1/4
Mexicools vs. MNM (2/3): ***

And this is without a real PPV. And now The Undertaker rode in with a fuckin' chariot! Oh man, please tell me that William Regal has beastly non-Benoit stuff too in 2006. LOLRAW though. Shawn Michaels wrestling like a girl, John Cena wrestling like a toddler, and Carlito doing Carlito things. But Edge has been a pleasant watch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Looks like you finally got off your high horse. 

Smackdown will continue to be this awesome all the way until April, then Orton gets suspended and things start going downhill as more and more guys keep going away from Taker taking a break, JBL retiring, Benoit getting injured to Angle going to ECW just to name a few. But Finlay and Mysterio do a great job in trying to keep the match quality at least somewhat up in the summer. I enjoyed Raw more for the non-wrestling stuff than the match quality. Cena is still somewhat entertaining on the mic at this point and Edge is simply on fire all year. Oh, and FLAIR with a mic in his hand is guaranteed greatness!

Finally got finished with IYH Ground Zero. This Taker/HBK match is easily their weakest in the series. The Cactus Jack/HHH street fight is in September 97, right? Should get to it soon!


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Looks like you finally got off your high horse.
> 
> Smackdown will continue to be this awesome all the way until April, then Orton gets suspended and things start going downhill as more and more guys keep going away from Taker taking a break, JBL retiring, Benoit getting injured to Angle going to ECW just to name a few. But Finlay and Mysterio do a great job in trying to keep the match quality at least somewhat up in the summer. I enjoyed Raw more for the non-wrestling stuff than the match quality. Cena is still somewhat entertaining on the mic at this point and Edge is simply on fire all year. Oh, and FLAIR with a mic in his hand is guaranteed greatness!
> 
> Finally got finished with IYH Ground Zero. This Taker/HBK match is easily their weakest in the series. The Cactus Jack/HHH street fight is in September 97, right? Should get to it soon!


I always liked Ground Zero more than the Casket match they had at RR 1998, but less obviously than the other 3 classics they had in 1997, 2009, and 2010 respectively. I think Ground Zero is a really, really good match that set the table perfectly for what was to come at Badd Blood. It's very similar to the Taker/Lesnar match at Unforgiven, actually. I think I gave GZ ***3/4 on last watch.

I love me some early 2006 Smackdown, can't heap enough praise on it. Funnyfaces, which match did you enjoy more in the Orton/Benoit series, the mat-based classic on 1/17 or the No DQ match on 1/27? I've always been partial to the former, it's actually one of my favorite matches ever and I watch it once every other month or so. The way Benoit and Orton manage to spend over 5 solid minutes just fighting over control of a limb and keep it completely compelling the entire time is something I don't think many if any wrestlers on the current roster can pull off.

I think I should note that Randy Orton at one time was one of the most versatile wrestlers ever. Just look at my personal picks for his 5 greatest matches ever:

1. Vs Cactus Jack Backlash 2004 *****
2. Vs Benoit Smackdown 1/17/06 ****1/2
3. Vs Rey Mysterio Smackdown 4/7/06 ****1/2
4. Vs Christian Over the Limit 2011****1/4
5. Vs The Undertaker Armageddon 2005 ****1/4

Those are 5 COMPLETELY different matches from a style standpoint. I mean they really couldn't be any more different, and he plays an entirely different role in all of them. I don't know many wrestlers who have that versatile a top 5, it's pretty impressive. Then again, all of them except 1 happened in 2006 or before so maybe that just drives home everyone's main beef with Randall about him not trying 

It's that time of month again, I'm on a Henry binge after Starbuck had the AUDACITY to claim he was dull in the ring. Shame on you . I'm searching high and low currently for this awesome match he had with Matt Hardy I just can't remember the date.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah the Ground Zero brawl is awesome.

And this might be the hardest I've laughed out of sheer love & entertainment for what the segment provided:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoyed the casket match a bit more than GZ. The latter is a good brawl but I find it too messy. I understand the purpose of why they would overbook it like that but it takes away from the match for me. Gotta give Shawn props for being able to continue the casket match without missing a beat even though he broke his lower back about 5 minutes into it.

And speaking of funny segments, I've been meaning to pimp this one after seeing it a couple of days ago. Just how awesome is Austin? :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ground Zero match rules. It is their weakest, but it's better than most combinations' strongest. Those feud advancer type matches are always the best sleeper gems. Some more that I love are Punk/Hardy Bash 09, Taker/Lesnar Unforgiven 02, Austin/Foley Unforgiven, Punk/Bryan on RAW in 2012, and of course, Austin/Angle Summerslam.

That Regal promo is hilarious. He has a really good one on Thanksgiving where he complains about how Americans don't protect the correct orifice when eating, and then another one where he talks about bestiality. Regal! And then when Tajiri comes in, things get even better. Like the time Tajiri hides behind that knight statue in Regal's office when Kane walks in.

I preferred the former Orton/Benoit match as well, but part of that was because I remember watching it when it aired with a few of my best friends. What I loved about the NHB match was how they used weapons out of necessity instead of out of supposed obligation. They wrestled in the same physical manner that they did in their prior match. And that concrete spot. Oh man, I always cringe when something like that happens. Wonderful.

I'm also the biggest fan in the world of a Triple H match I watched today. You'll never guess what match it is. Or maybe you will, considering that I've watched 2006 all day.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Ground Zero > Casket imo. The former is so fun (overused term for me, I know) and how overbooking should work, the barrage of wrestlers provided the perfect cushion for Taker's suicide dive and what a beautiful sight it was. 

I guess Triple H vs Big Show New Years Revolution @ funnyfaces.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The NHB match with Orton and Benoit is just wonderful. One of the more organic ways to have a match with weapons as they start the same way by using mat wrestling to wear the other man down but then the hatred starts to show as they exit the ring, get more physical and introduce the weapons into it. And that concrete spot is shocking. Surprised that they would've used that for a rather casual TV match (as good as it may be).

And the Triple H match is either the count-out one with Big Show on Raw or the triple threat with RVD and Show.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The NYR match with Big Show is great, and probably his best singles match that year, although he also had a good one with Flair in the RTWM tournament. Then he had the triple threat with RVD/Show that wasn't bad. 

Backlash main event tho :trips5


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Indeed it is the New Year's Revolution match. So far it's my MOTY and among my favorite Triple H performances. That Flair match on the RTWM tournament was good too. Love the way Flair saunters around like the jolly old man that he is. And there was a Chavo match that was pretty decent too. How were the two SNME shows in 2006? I remember Cena doing a crazy FU on Edge at the end of one of them. But I also remember them having a bad match that same night. I think there might have been a fun handicap match before Mania too.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Rah*, did you happen to watch Michaels vs. Jericho from Judgment Day '08? That's probably my favorite match from that year.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Man, you guys weren't lying. Smackdown in 2006 was killer! Just look at this output in basically one month.
> 
> JBL vs. Matt Hardy (1/6): ***
> Mark Henry vs. Three Jobbers (1/6): **3/4
> ...


Well fuck yes, that's awesome to hear. I have the 1/20 episode on my computer because it was taped on my birthday (January 15th). Glad to see there's some really good stuff on there. (Y)



Choke2Death said:


> Looks like you finally got off your high horse.
> 
> Smackdown will continue to be this awesome all the way until April, then Orton gets suspended and things start going downhill as more and more guys keep going away from Taker taking a break, JBL retiring, Benoit getting injured to Angle going to ECW just to name a few. But Finlay and Mysterio do a great job in trying to keep the match quality at least somewhat up in the summer. I enjoyed Raw more for the non-wrestling stuff than the match quality. Cena is still somewhat entertaining on the mic at this point and Edge is simply on fire all year. Oh, and FLAIR with a mic in his hand is guaranteed greatness!
> 
> *Finally got finished with IYH Ground Zero.* This Taker/HBK match is easily their weakest in the series. The Cactus Jack/HHH street fight is in September 97, right? Should get to it soon!


I can't remember a whole lot from the Taker/HBK match but I don't recall being that big a fan of it at all whenever I did watch it.  What did you think of Bret vs. The Patriot?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Love Show vs Trips from NYR. And yeah, I'd say the Handicap from the SNME revival was fun. Always liked the match. Includes a rare pedigree for Mysterio.

Austin vs Angle being coined as a feud advancer. Ha. C'mon now. Their rematch felt more of the random addition to continue the grudge than the first match did & that had the clean(?) finish, final slot, & hometown for Angle. Lets be honest.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Love the love for HHH/Show. Match rules.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

How's Mysetrio/Ziggler from NOC and Ziggler/Khali from The Bash 09? I imagine The Khali match being one of those squash matches made fun by Ziggler's selling.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Khali vs Ziggler is whatever. Mysterio vs Ziggler from NOC is really good.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Mysterio/Ziggler is excellent, forgotten match as their summerslam getting all the love, I've never seen the Khail match but was interested as well


(Y) for the HHH/Show matches, love 'em


Watching HBK/Y2J JD 08 myself to see if Corey's constant praise is warrented


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> How were the two SNME shows in 2006? I remember Cena doing a crazy FU on Edge at the end of one of them. But I also remember them having a bad match that same night. I think there might have been a fun handicap match before Mania too.


The handicap tag from the first one is pretty good. Mysterio, Orton & Angle vs Cena & HHH. There's also a Foley/Edge segment that's worth checking out. Taker also tombstones Daivari on top of the a casket and JBL & Austin have a beer drinking contest.

Don't remember much from the second. Orton challenges Hogan (then RKOs him onto the trunk of his car) and there's the Edge/Cena match which, while not memorable, is not bad.

And would you put Show/HHH above the Benoit/Orton matches? That's pretty high praise for it imo. But you should see some even better stuff coming up with Angle/Taker and Benoit/Finlay.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> I can't remember a whole lot from the Taker/HBK match but I don't recall being that big a fan of it at all whenever I did watch it.  What did you think of Bret vs. The Patriot?


Tbh, I thought it was kinda boring.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Mysterio vs Dolph matches :mark:

I was in another world at that time.


----------



## Waffelz (Feb 12, 2013)

I opened this thread for the first time today, and I'm rather annoyed I didn't sooner. Thought this thread was completely different to what it is. :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Wasnt even watching at the time, ah young Nick Nemath, looked like you had such a bright future


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Winning that damn World Championship ruined his career. Blast the highest form of success.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea I liked Michaels/Jericho JD 08, probably their best match together. Liked the spot where Y2J keeps faking getting up to just eat the SCM, made it more realistic.

Seeing ppl doing 06 and 08 reviews, I want to re watch a year myself, a best of, do not know which year though, preferably in the 2000s post 01


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Do 2002. Or Smackdown 2009.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Watching HBK/Y2J JD 08 myself to see if Corey's constant praise is warrented


:ex:



Choke2Death said:


> T
> Tbh, I thought it was kinda boring.


Oh... well then. I've always thought it was a pretty solid title match despite Patriot being so stiff in the ring. Nothing special of any sorts but *** 1/4 level good. Not sure if any of the interference was necessary though. 



NAITCH said:


> Yea I liked Michaels/Jericho JD 08, probably their best match together. Liked the spot where Y2J keeps faking getting up to just eat the SCM, made it more realistic.


:dance

I'm never able to keep my interest in a project. The farthest I ever made was my patented DEL RIO PROJECT. I made it one whole year. August 2010-August 2011 I do believe.  I started watching a bunch of 80s Lucha, then my interest shifted to NOAH Juniors. Now it's on Brock Lesnar and Summerslma. Yeah, I can't do a project...


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

The Ziggler/Mysterio matches :mark: Those were some damn good matches. Ziggler being the young, cocky upstart wanting to make a name for himself at the expense of the established veteran in Mysterio. Good shit (Y)

I agree it sucks that Ziggler hasn't been at the forefront of WWE since he lost the title. Hopefully it doesn't happen to Daniel Bryan now that he's injured and is going to be away for a long while. This year was starting to get good too


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

Speaking of Ziggler, I rewatched the Payback match against Del Rio and haven't lost any love for it. One of those instances where all the stars align. I don't need to get into a highly descriptive action-by-action recount because, like most good matches, the gameplan and structure largely speaks for itself. I will talk about the consequences of it though. The most disheartening thing about this is how nothing would really eventuate from it for either. It's a great match for sure and will be something that stands out in the careers of both men, but it ultimately meant nothing beyond a two month period. Ziggler faded into a footnote and Del Rio had another largely insignificant title run. 

It goes to show how necessary it is for the company to sustain the momentum of a program or its performers. You can have great matches left, right and center but they won't mean much if the followup or attention isn't there. Sadly in Del Rio's case though, he was simply exhausted in the eyes of the audience so not much can be done there.

Off-topic, but is anyone else getting a little tired of the term 'psychology' being thrown around in regards to everything in-ring? I see the term 'story' being used a lot which is fair enough, but everything else is coined as 'psychology.' "This guy's got great psychology", "this person could really get better psychology", "I consider him/her a great in-ring psychologist", etc. Most seem to get that the best matches are those that make sense, but I'd like to see a little bit more diversity in the usage of wrestling terms. If for nothing else, then just so it becomes better established as to who's blowing smoke and who isn't around here.

Though not as annoying, it's almost as redundant as "cringe-worthy." Everyone's using "cringe-worthy" these days. Ugh!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I stopped using "psychology" ages ago and instead started using storytelling more and more, which seems to have caught on. Reason I tend to hate the term "psychology" is because most people who use it have no idea what it actually is. Different people think it's something different entirely and everyone gets muddled and confused and fuck that I don't have time for bollacks lol.

If I talk about a match having a great story, and explaining what the story is, then even a 3 year old could follow what I'm saying (NOTE: don't let 3 year olds read my posts. I swear a lot ).

FF is doing 06 now huh? Well, here are my ratings lists for Raw (unfinished) and SD that might help out with what to watch and what to avoid etc:



Spoiler: Raw 06



Shelton Benjamin Vs Rob Van Dam - Intercontinental Championship & Money in the Bank Briefcase Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ****
Triple H Vs Ric Flair - Raw 06/02/2006 - ***3/4
Edge Vs Ric Flair - TLC WWE Title Match - Raw 16/01/2006 - ***3/4
John Cena Vs Triple H Vs Edge - WWE Championship Match - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ***3/4
Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Masters Vs Charlie Hass Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 08/05/2006 - ***3/4
Shawn Michaels & God Vs Vince & Shane McMahon - No Holds Barred - Backlash 30/04/2006 - ***1/2
Triple H Vs The Big Show - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 23/01/2006 - ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Charlie Hass - Raw 17/04/2006 - ***1/4
Triple H Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 27/03/2006 - ***1/4
Triple H Vs The Big Show - Raw 13/02/2006 - ***
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James - WWE Women's Championship - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***
Shane McMahon Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 24/04/2006 - ***
John Cena & RVD Vs Triple H, Shelton Benjamin & Chris Matchers - 3 on 2 Handicap Texas Tornado Intercontinental & WWE Championship Match - Raw 15/05/2006 - ***
Chris Masters & Carlito Vs Shawn Michaels & Kurt Angle - Raw 09/01/2006 - ***
Jerry Lawler Vs Gregory Helms - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - ***
The Big Show Vs Triple H Vs RVD - Raw 20/02/2006 - ***
Rob Van Dam & Carlito Vs Chris Masters & Shelton Benjamin - Raw 01/05/2006 - ***
The Spirit Squad Vs Triple H, John Cena & Edge - Handicap Match - Raw 24/04/2006 - **3/4
Edge & John Cena Vs Triple H - Handicap Match - Raw 17/04/2006 - **3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs Viscera - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - **3/4
The Big Show Vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 06/02/2006 - **1/2
Ric Flair Vs Shelton Benjamin - Intercontinential Title Match - Raw 20/02/2006 - **1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair Vs RVD - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 20/03/2006 - **1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Goldust - Raw 30/01/2006 - **1/2
Kane Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 02/01/2006 - **1/2
Kane Vs The Big Show - Raw 08/05/2006 - **
Mickie James Vs Trish Stratus - Women's Championship - Backlash 30/04/2006 - **
Shawn Michaels Vs The Spirit Squad - Steel Cage 4 on 1 Handicap Match - Raw 13/03/2006 - **
Umaga Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 17/04/2006 - **
Triple H & John Cena Vs Edge - Handicap Match - Raw 10/04/2006 - **
The Big Show Vs Kane - Backlash 30/04/2006 - *3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs Chavo Guerrero - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 03/04/2006 - *3/4
Shelton Benjamin Vs RVD - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 13/03/2006 - *1/2
Shelton Benjamin Vs Ric Flair - Intercontinental Championship Match - Raw 06/03/2006 - *
Triple H & Edge Vs John Cena - Handicap Match - Raw 03/04/2006 - *
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle Vs Kane Vs Chris Masters Vs Carlito - WWE Championship Elimination Chamber Match - New Years Revolution 08/01/2006 - *
Shawn Michaels Vs Shane McMahon - Raw 06/03/2006 - 1/2*
Kurt Angle Vs Shawn Michaels - Raw 16/01/2006 - 1/2*
Mickie James Vs Maria - Raw 10/04/2006 - 1/4*
Mick Foley Vs Edge Vs Tommy Dreamer - Hardcore Match - Raw 08/05/2006 - 1/4*
Rob Van Dam Vs Chris Masters - Raw 10/04/2006 - 1/4*
John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - First Blood - Raw 02/01/2006 - 1/4*
The Big Show Vs Shelton Benjamin - Raw 16/01/2006 - DUD





Spoiler: SD 06



The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****3/4 - 8
Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 13th 2006 - ****1/2 - 7
The Undertaker Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown March 3rd 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - WrestleMania #1 Contender Spot - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
Finlay Vs Chris Benoit - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown May 5th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Nürnberg, Germany 08/11/2006 - ****1/4 - 6
Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - No Holds Barred - Smackdown January 27th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
Mr Kennedy Vs The Undertaker - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ****1/4 - 6
William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - **** - 5
Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - **** - 5
Batista Vs King Booker Vs Finlay - WHC - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - **** - 5
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown December 22nd 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
Rey Mysterio Vs Randy Orton - WHC - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown March 24th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - WWE Tag Team Titles - Judgment Day May 21st 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
Kurt Angle Vs Randy Orton - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown April 14th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
Matt Hardy & Gunner Scott Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown June 16th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
20 Man Battle Royal - WHC - Smackdown January 13th 2006 - ***3/4 - 4
Mr Kennedy Vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown August 11th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
JBL Vs Chris Benoit - US Title - Steel Cage - Smackdown April 14th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
London & Kendrick Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Finlay Vs Mr Kennedy Vs Bobby Lashey - US Title - Smackdown September 1st 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - King of the Ring Semi Final Match - Smackdown May 12th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker & Kurt Angle Vs Mark Henry & MNM - Smackdown February 17th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 8th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Mr Kennedy Vs Chris Benoit - US Title - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Great American Bash 2006 July 23rd - ***1/2 - 3
Finlay Vs Batista - Smackdown November 10th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - US Title - Smackdown July 21st 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Kane Vs Mr Kennedy - No DQ - Smackdown October 27th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs The Great Khali - Last Man Standing - Smackdown August 18th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Mark Henry Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown May 26th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Smackdown July 28th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Rey Mysterio Vs Mr Kennedy - Smackdown September 15th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Armageddon December 17th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
The Undertaker Vs Mr Kennedy - Survivor Series November 26th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy - Great American Bash July 23rd 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Royal Rumble Match January 29th 2006 - ***1/2 - 3
Mr Kennedy Vs Batista - Great American Bash 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
King Booker Vs Batista Vs Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - WHC - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy - No Mercy October 8th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
William Regal Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown March 24th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
JBL Vs Chris Benoit - US Title - WrestleMania XXII April 2nd 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley Vs Randy orton, JBL & Finlay - Smackdown February 24th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Mark Henry Vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown January 20th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Brian Kendrick Vs William Regal - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Gregory Helms Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - CW Title - Armageddon December 17th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Brian Kendrick & Paul London Vs The Pit Bulls - WWE Tag Team Titles - Great American Bash July 23rd 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Brian Kendrick & Paul London Vs KC James & Idol Stevens - No Mercy 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & King Booker - Smackdown October 6th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
Gregory Helms Vs Scotty 2 Hotty Vs Psicosis Vs Brian Kendrick Vs Paul London Vs Funaki Vs Kid Kash Vs Super Crazy Vs Nunzio - Cruiserweight Title - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
MNM & Mark Henry Vs Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio & Randy Orton - Smackdown March 17th 2006 - ***1/4 - 2
The Undertaker & Kane Vs MVP & Mr Kennedy - Smackdown November 3rd 2006 - *** - 2
Rey Mysterio Vs Finlay - Smackdown June 9th 2006 - *** - 2
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - *** - 2
MNM Vs Paul London, Brian Kendrick & Jillian Hall - Smackdown May 19th 2006 - *** - 2
Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - Smackdown January 20th 2006 - *** - 2
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown February 10th 2006 - *** - 2
Finlay & JBL Vs Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley - Smackdown February 17th 2006 - *** - 2
MNM Vs Paul London & Brian Kendrick - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - *** - 2
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - US Title - Smackdown August 18th 2006 - *** - 2
Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay - Smackdown September 15th 2006 - *** - 2
Batista Vs Finlay - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - *** - 2
Bobby Lashley & Batista Vs King Booker & Finlay - Smackdown November 17th 2006 - *** - 2
Finlay Vs John Cena - Smackdown December 15th 2006 - *** - 2
Kid Kash Vs Funaki Vs Jamie Noble Vs Nunzio Vs Vs Paul London Vs Gregory Helms - Crusierweight Title - Royal Rumble January 29th 2006 - *** - 2
Mr Kennedy Vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown July 14 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Finlay & Booker T Vs Chris Benoit & Gunner Scott - Smackdown May 19th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Chris Benoit Vs Finlay - US Title - Smackdown February 3rd 2006 - **3/4 - 1
JBL Vs William Regal - US Title - Smackdown April 28th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
William Regal Vs Paul Burchill - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Matt Hardy Vs Gregory Helms - Smackdown October 27th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown September 15th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Rey Mysterio Vs Mark Henry - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown June 23rd 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - Lumberjack Match - Smackdown March 17th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
The Undertaker Vs The Big Show - Punjabi Prison Match - Great American Bash July 23rd 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Chris Benoit Vs Gregory Helms - Smackdown March 10th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Matt Hardy Vs Gregory Helms - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Gregory Helms Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - **3/4 - 1
Bobby Lashley Vs JBL - No Way Out February 19th 2006 - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs King Booker - Smackdown September 22nd 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Matt Hardy Vs Finlay - Smackdown June 30th 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Gregory Helms Vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown September 1st 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Rey Mysterio Vs Jamie Noble - Smackdown October 13th 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Joey Mercury Vs Paul London - Smackdown April 21st 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Kurt Angle Vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown March 31st 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Chris Benoit Vs Randy Orton - Smackdown January 6th 2006 - **1/2 - 1
MNM Vs Paul London & Brian Kendrick - Smackdown February 10th 2006 - **1/2 - 1
MNM Vs Brian Kendrick & Paul London - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Rey Mysterio Vs Gregory Helms - Smackdown June 16th 2006 - **1/2 - 1
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry – Casket Match – WrestleMania XXII 2006 - **1/2 - 1
Finlay Vs King Booker - Smackdown October 6th 2006 - **1/4 - 1
Mr Kennedy Vs Batista - Smackdown August 4th 2006 - **1/4 - 1
Kane Vs MVP - Street Fight - Smackdown November 17th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle Vs Mark Henry & Randy Orton - Smackdown February 3rd 2006 - ** - 0.5
William Regal Vs Paul Burchill - Smackdown March 10th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Mr Kennedy Vs Matt Hardy - Smackdown August 25th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Paul London Vs William Regal - Smackdown November 17th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Gunner Scott Vs Finlay - Smackdown April 28th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Chris Benoit & Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay & Orlando Jordan - Smackdown April 21st 2006 - ** - 0.5
Rey Mysterio Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown May 5th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Finlay Vs Gunner Scott - Smackdown June 23rd 2006 - ** - 0.5
Finlay Vs William Regal - US Title - Smackdown August 4th 2006 - ** - 0.5
William Regal Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown June 9th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Mark Henry Vs Bobby Lashley - King of the Ring Qualifying Match - Smackdown April 28th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Rey Mysterio Vs Kurt Angle - World Heavyweight Title - Smackdown April 28th 2006 - ** - 0.5
MNM Vs Mexicools - Tag Team Titles - Smackdown February 3rd 2006 - ** - 0.5
Rey Mysterio Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown January 27th 2006 - ** - 0.5
Matt Hardy Vs JBL Vs Orlando Jordan Vs Chris Benoit - Smackdown February 10th 2006 - ** - 0.5
The Undertaker & Kane Vs Mr Kennedy & MVP - Smackdown December 15th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
Batista & Bobby Lashley Vs Finlay & William Regal - Smackdown August 11th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
MVP Vs Kane - Steel Cage Match - Smackdown November 24th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
Brian Kendrick, Paul London & Jimmy Wang Yang Vs William Regal, Dave Taylor & Gregory Helms - Smackdown December 15th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
Kane Vs Mr Kennedy - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
Batista Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown October 6th 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
William Regal Vs Rey Mysterio - Smackdown July 14 2006 - *3/4 - 0.5
Matt Hardy Vs Gregory Helms - Smackdown November 17th 2006 - *1/2 - 0.5
Gregory Helms Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - Smackdown November 3rd 2006 - *1/2 - 0.5
Johnny Nitro Vs Brian Kendrick - Smackdown April 14th 2006 - *1/2 - 0.5
The Undertaker Vs King Booker - Smackdown August 4th 2006 - *1/2 - 0.5
Jamie Noble Vs Jimmy Wang Yang - Smackdown December 8th 2006 - * - 0
Kurt Angle Vs Randy Orton Vs Rey Mysterio - WHC - WrestleMania XXII April 2nd 2006 - * - 0
The Undertaker Vs Mark Henry - Smackdown April 7th 2006 - * - 0
Finlay Vs Lashley - Smackdown March 3rd 2006 - * - 0
William Regal Vs Bobby Lashley - Smackdown September 8th 2006 - * - 0
Finlay Vs Bobby Lashley - US Title - Smackdown July 14 2006 - *
Mark Henry & Randy Orton Vs Rey Mysterio & Kurt Angle - Smackdown March 10th 2006 - * - 0
MNM & Gregory Helms Vs Paul London, Brian Kendrick & Super Crazy - Smackdown April 28th 2006 - * - 0
MVP Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown December 1st 2006 - 3/4* - 0
MVP Vs Kane - Smackdown October 20th 2006 - 3/4* - 0
Rey Mysterio Vs Kurt Angle - Smackdown June 2nd 2006 - 3/4* - 0
Mr Kennedy Vs Batista - Smackdown July 28th 2006 - 1/2* - 0
Bobby Lashley & Tatanka Vs William Regal & Dave Taylor - Smackdown October 27th 2006 - 1/2* - 0
William Regal & Dave Taylor Vs Scotty 2 Hotty & Funaki - Smackdown October 20th 2006 - 1/4* - 0
Gregory Helms Vs The Undertaker - Smackdown october 20th 2006 - 1/4* - 0
Finlay Vs Paul Burchill - Smackdown May 26th 2006 - 1/4* - 0
Rey Mysterio & Batista Vs MNM - Cage Match - Smackdown January 6th 2006 - 1/4* - 0
Mr Kennedy Vs Gunner Scott - Smackdown June 30th 2006 - 1/4* - 0

Overall - 263.5


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

#ROOT said:


> Pfft, lazy Rah. Go back and watch more awesome shit and THEN post your list of best matches for 08!


I could/should just take the top 10 of that list and be done. I'm half trusting Hayley on some of these matches but that's it. How you see Miz, is what I'm getting from this year. Original intention was just to find a match better than Evan/Chavo. I didn't.

Probably get it done in another month's time, as I would rather continue along that 80s Lucha set I have. Definitely not happening today, though. Buddy and I are watching the new AAA show before I go out. Probably shouldn't, as that will most likely end up leading to drinking myself unconscious to try forget the horror. Okay, nah, AAA is the most fun I'm getting from wrestling, atm. KONNAN~!



Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Rah*, did you happen to watch Michaels vs. Jericho from Judgment Day '08? That's probably my favorite match from that year.


Before I say anything, how did you rate the other matches?





Meltzer said:


> If youre wondering why Cesaro has been kept as a heel and has cooled off so much even with Heyman as manager, its been somewhat intentional. Obviously, as noted in plans on who was going to be pushed, Cesaro was slated to be on the verge of a major face push late this summer. The decision was made, and this was before Bryan went down, that Reigns would be getting the big focused face push to the top with Cena, Bryan and Sheamus (who has also cooled down greatly because the way they book their secondary champions almost inherently does so) as the key guys. Cesaro is slated for a face push, but no time soon. The idea is when we need it, which would likely be after the big push for Reigns has already fully established him and they need the next rising star.


I love Reigns but come the fuck on.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

God forbid WWE have to push TWO people at once.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

And God forbid someone MUCH more talented than Reigns getting the big face push, right?


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

This may be an elaborate work, considering there was talk months ago that WWE intended to create a support similar to Bryan's story arc with Cesaro, but that's falling into the realm of "well, he'll be cool on the indies, again" more than "push the guy!" reactions. This company is daft.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Armageddon 2005*

DEATH CONQUERS ALL.

:lmao WWE ARMAGEDDON. TONIGHT FEATURING THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND; HELL IN A CELL. LIVE FROM THE DUNKIN' DONUTS CENTER :lmao.


*JBL Vs Matt Hardy*

So this match is happening because... JBL interrupted a promo from Matt Hardy on Smackdown. Guess creative were on holiday... for about a decade.

Fucking FIGHT right here :mark:. Matt gets caught neck first in the ropes and JBL goes to fucking town on his head with punches and kicks, then pulls on his legs to choke the fuck out of him!!!

So did Matt do something wrong? Because JBL looks like he's trying to fucking MURDER him lol. Was he (Matt) the guy that refused to get beat up by Undertaker at SVS when the SD roster came out to celebrate with Orton, because he was supposed to get a push soon after and didn't want to look weak? Or was that someone else? Or did I just invent the entire situation in my head? My head is a crazy place though, if I made it up it would have involved some kind of dragon probably. I dunno. JBL IS KICKING MATT IN THE FUCKING HEAD MULTIPLE TIMES.

CLOTHESLINE FROM FUCKING HELL. This is over. Absolute SQUASH of Matt. Great to watch but seems like poor booking, especially considering how OVER Matt was thanks to the whole Edge/Lita shit.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


Video package showing how Melina whored herself out to Batista in hopes of him not competing against MNM for the tag titles. Batista fucked her but said no deal :lmao.

Backstage Melina is getting ready and the Mexicools show up, saying they'll cancel the match with MNM tonight if she does for them what she did for Batista :lmao.


*MNM Vs The Mexicools*

Melina looks FAP. 

You know that spot where one guy tries to take a run up then jumps over the ropes to the outside, but the referee stops him? Then the referee leans over the second rope to tell the guys on the floor to get back into the ring, and the guy in the ring runs the ropes and uses the referee to launch himself? Well Super Crazy did that while the referee was STANDING UP.

MNM just can't seem to get going here. They get a few moments of control, then the Mexicools throw out some crazy move and MNM end up back to where they started.

The great team work of MNM is what finally turns the tide for them. They isolate Psicosis and use all the tricks in the book to prevent a tag, and that's one of my favourite things that MNM used to do . The Dudley Boys went down to OVW to help out MNM to groom them as the next big tag feud which was supposed to happen after the ECW One Night Stand PPV. Instead Johhny Ace apparently fucked them over and they got released, so we never got MNM Vs The Dudley's, and dammit that just makes me sad .

Mexicools do their best, and look to perhaps have the former tag champ's number here tonight, but again it's the superior team work that comes into play, and MNM gain the victory! Melina continues to look SMOKING FAP FAP HOT.

Good match!

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Chris Benoit Vs Booker T - Best of 7 Series for the WWE United States Championship - Match 4*

Booker T needs to win this match and he's got a clean sweep over Benoit. Got told by a number of people I should absolutely 100% watch this match. Tough shit! . I just don't like their chemistry together. Never enjoyed their stuff. Can't stand Booker T. Not watching.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Teddy Long and Palmer Cannon come out to introduce Santa and his elf. They end up being Vito and Nunzio are handing out coal and keeping the sweets for themselves. Boogeyman comes out to beat them up.


*Bobby Lashley Vs William Regal & Paul Burchill*

Lashley has his fun early on, even bringing Regal unto the ring so he can beat both guys up at once. However, since both Regal and Burchill are English, they are naturally evil too, and they cheat to gain the advantage!

They really go to town on Lashley's back. Some sick knees from Burchill including one from the top rope!

Doesn't take long for Lashley to power his way through both guys and pick up the win. Pretty fun for the time it gets though.

*Rating: *3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 0.5*


:lmao Tim White suicide segment! WHO THOUGHT THESE WERE A GOOD IDEA?!!?


*Juventud Guerrera Vs Kid Kash - WWE Cruiserweight Championship Match*

Juvi seems to be pissed at Kash early on but I have no idea why lol. Oh well. Juvi is throwing some pretty sweet punches to the face so I don't really care if there is a reason .

Booooring. Since match is them going through the motions for 90% of it. Even the "big spot" off the top rope looks so contrived I didn't give a fuck about it.

They do a bunch of flse finishers and even the fans are more like "isn't this over yet?" rather than "OMG HE KICKED OUT THIS IS STILL GOING!". Kash kicks out of the Juvi Driver and the fans barely care :lmao. This might be the blandest finishing stretch I've seen in a while.

Brainbuster. New champ.

*Rating: DUD*
*CAL SCALE - 0*


*Batista & Rey Mysterio Vs The Big Show & Kane*

Smackdown Vs Raw, Tag Champs Vs Tag Champs!

So I was watching some shoot interview recently, might have been the Trevor Murdoch one, and he mentioned that Big Show hated tagging with Kane. Anyone know anything about this? Do they not get along, or is it something else?

:lmao Rey has 619 painted on his chin :lmao. Looks DUMB AS FUCK :lmao.

Batista tries to match power with Big Show and fails... so he decides "fuck it, amma punch you in the FACE" and he does .

Kane comes in, and gets thrown off the ropes by Batista, then Rey tags in and hits 2 of the WORST legdrops ever. For a guy known for his high flying, he BARELY gets off the ground for them :lmao.

Batista and Rey CHEAT to almost finish off Kane, so Big Show returns the favour and takes out Rey. Serves them right tbh!

Big Show rules. He grabs Rey out of the corner, then walks him over to Batista and teases letting him get the tag, only to kick Batista's hand instead and laugh at him :lmao.

Show makes the mistake of knocking Batista off the apron, and Batista is all "fuck it, amma kill everything" and he does .

Then Kane chokeslam's Rey for the win :lmao.

Match honestly was too short for my liking. Didn't feel as "big" as I think it should have been. A bit disappointing. What they did was actually good, but definitely felt rushed.

*Rating: **3/4*
*CAL SCALE - 1*


*The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - Hell in a Cell Match*

MAIN EVENT TIME :mark:.

"He holds the fate, in the palm of the Undertaker, in his hands" :lmao VINTAGE MICHAEL COLE~!

:lmao Undertaker slams the door shut, and the referee is actually TERRIFIED to get close to it to lock it. AND HE'S ON THE OUTSIDE :lmao. 

Orton is desperate to keep this match in the ring and keep it a WRESTLING match, in hopes of repeating the success he had at SummerSlam. However Undertaker is just UNSTOPPABLE early on, dominating Orton regardless of the cell being used as a weapon or not.

Once Undertaker is in firm control, the BEATING can commence. STEEL CHAIR TO THE HEAD. TWICE. Orton is bleeding and completely out on his feet. The Dead Man rubs his face into the side of the cage right in front of Daddy Orton. Note to self: Don't set Undertaker on fire in a casket.

Randy manages to grab a chain, but he's too fucked to use it. Instead, Undertaker grabs it and chokes out the Legend Killer! Man, Orton is taking one hell of a fucking beating here. He's just getting MAULED and it's fucking awesome.

There's a great moment when Orton is on the floor and holds his head after going face first into the cage, and sees the blood all over he hands. From there he goes fucking nuts and manages to actually mount some offence... until Undertaker kicks the steel steps right back into him. Orton is going to need more than the sight of his own blood to motivate him tonight.

One opportunity. That's all he needed. Bob talks trash to Undertaker. Undertaker turns to look at him. Turns back, and Orton jumps up, lands an RKO dropping Undertaker neck first on the ropes, and that gives him a chance to rest and FINALLY dish out some punishment to the man who has been murdering him for the last 10 minutes.

:mark: UNDERTAKER JUST JUMP OFF THE STEEL STEPS AND KNEED ORTON IN THE FUCKING FACE :mark:. I always remember the signal cutting out at that VERY MOMENT while watching live so we didn't get to see the move fucking happen.

BOB ORTON again comes into play, grabbing Undertaker's hair through the cell and holding him for Randy! In the end is results in poor old Bob getting busted open too.

POWERSLAM INTO THE SIDE OF THE CAGE~! Undertaker looked to be going for that running knee again, but Orton countered and powerslammed the Dead Man right into the cage!!!

Why are there rope breaks in a HIAC match? Doesn't take away from the match but... seems kinda stupid .

LOW BLOW WITH A STEEL CHAIN~! Good job Undertaker already has kids... .

Absolutely crazy crossbody off the ropes to Undertaker through a table! The table cracks but doesn't quite break, instead falls over which makes for an awkward looking landing for both men, Orton especially.

Hmmm... Orton has Undertaker in the corner. Mounts him for 10 punches. What could possibly happen here?

LAST RIDE~! Orton escapes! Thankfully. He's wrestled Undertaker enough this year to see that coming and counter it, just like he did at No Mercy too.

REF BUMP~!

CHOKESLAM INTO AN RKO~!

BOB ORTON SNEAKS INTO THE CELL WHILE ANOTHER REFEREE COMES IN~!

MASSIVE Last Ride. Fuck me, that might be up there as one of the best. Some serious fucking height despite the fact there is a roof above them, and Orton crashes down to the mat.

Bob breaks up the pin, so Undertaker beats the shit out of him, and Bob bleeds on him, which pisses Undertaker off to no end because it turns out Bob has Hepatitis and didn't tell anyone.

TOMBSTONE~! ORTON COUNTERS AND HITS A TOMBSTONE OF HIS OWN!!! He's tried that at WM and SS and failed, but now, finally, in their last match he HITS IT!

1...2... UNDERTAKER IS ABOUT TO LOSE TO HIS OWN MOVE... KICK OUT!!!

Undertaker keeps sitting up, and Orton keeps punching him in the face until he can't sit up no longer. Undertaker plays mind games with Orton though, pretending he can't get up, and as Orton takes the time to be cocky and pose, Undertaker grabs him by the throat!!!

CHOKESLAM TO BOB~!

TOMBSTONE TO RANDY~!

The Undertaker wins.

Match is fucking superb. Absolutely BRUTAL Hell in a Cell match, up there with the absolute best. Both men take a ton of punishment, but Randy takes one hell of a fucking beating. Great way to end their feud.

*Rating: ****1/2*
*CAL SCALE - 7*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 10.5*​


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another great review, Cal. Agreed with the ****1/2 rating for the HIAC, absolutely brutal stuff and really felt like a proper blow-off to 2005's SECOND best feud of the year, even though I feel like Taker shouldn't have won that match on one hand but whatever. Feel like you really overrated the Tag champs vs. Tag champs match too, but that's for another day. Mostly I do agree with what you said. However... you NO'd Benoit/Booker. Even though I told you a million times not to. That's worse than you shitting on One Night Stand. Shame on you Cal, shame on you. (N)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Vengeance 05 up next. Might start it today. Might not. Depends. On stuff.

Fuck Booker/Benoit matches. I'd rather watch Chavo Jr in a 60 minute Iron Man match against a clone of himself. At least then I'd get the satisfaction of Chavo beating the shit out of himself.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Have never seen that Orton/Taker match mentioned in here. May have to give that a watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

How do you know if you're not gonna get any satisfaction out of those matches this time around if you aren't even bothering to watch them? It IS a Chris Benoit match after all, it's not like it's a guaranteed DUD. No Benoit matches are, anyway. Let alone the two 05 PPV ones against Booker, ESPECIALLY Armageddon. I can understand you NO'ing NWO, but not the 2005 ones. But fuck it, whatever. 

I'm moving forward for something I'm honestly shocked no one has even tried yet, to prepare for Ambrose/Rollins - THE SHIELD PROJECT. :mark:


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

ATF said:


> How do you know if you're not gonna get any satisfaction out of those matches this time around if you aren't even bothering to watch them? It IS a Chris Benoit match after all, it's not like it's a guaranteed DUD. No Benoit matches are, anyway. Let alone the two 05 PPV ones against Booker, ESPECIALLY Armageddon. I can understand you NO'ing NWO, but not the 2005 ones. But fuck it, whatever.
> 
> I'm moving forward for something I'm honestly shocked no one has even tried yet, to prepare for Ambrose/Rollins - *THE SHIELD PROJECT*. :mark:



:mark: :mark:

Do it. Looking forward to your reviews. Their debut match itself is such an awesome match to begin with.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm not gonna be doing reviews, I'm just gonna post DEM LIST parts, like my previous project stuff. Don't really have patience to write small reviews for every single match of theirs. Sorry to disappoint .

However, if you are interested in hearing about my opinion on a few of those after I ranked them, it'll be my pleasure .

Oh, I'm including their singles matches wrestled during the Shield's lifespan btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> I'm not gonna be doing reviews, I'm just gonna post DEM LIST parts, like my previous project stuff. Don't really have patience to write small reviews for every single match of theirs. Sorry to disappoint .
> 
> However, if you are interested in hearing about my opinion on a few of those after I ranked them, it'll be my pleasure .
> 
> Oh, I'm including their singles matches wrestled during the Shield's lifespan btw.


I want to rewatch some Shield stuff myself soon, been meaning to for a while but im making my way through WCW Nitro's atm. 

Plus i do have Seabs' Shield comp so that'll help. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I might just watch all their FCW matches to prepare for SummerSlam.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

-Skullbone- said:


> Off-topic, but is anyone else getting a little tired of the term 'psychology' being thrown around in regards to everything in-ring? I see the term 'story' being used a lot which is fair enough, but everything else is coined as 'psychology.' "This guy's got great psychology", "this person could really get better psychology", "I consider him/her a great in-ring psychologist", etc. Most seem to get that the best matches are those that make sense, but I'd like to see a little bit more diversity in the usage of wrestling terms. If for nothing else, then just so it becomes better established as to who's blowing smoke and who isn't around here.





#ROOT said:


> I stopped using "psychology" ages ago and instead started using storytelling more and more, which seems to have caught on. Reason I tend to hate the term "psychology" is because most people who use it have no idea what it actually is. Different people think it's something different entirely and everyone gets muddled and confused and fuck that I don't have time for bollacks lol.


Foregoing your personal predilections for the terms you prefer to use, psychology and storytelling can't possibly be interchanged, seeing as they quite clearly denote two separate aspects of dissecting/analysing a match.

People being confused about semantics is no reason to disregard the differences between them. It's fine if someone incidentally no longer cares for psychology in wrestling and would just rather the progression of a prior designated story (spot) at all costs, but that doesn't seem to be the case.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I kinda hate ''psychology'' because it seems like everybody has their own meaning for it. If something can't be really universally defined in wrestling then, hell, AWAY WITH IT. Also ''no psychology'' gets thrown around. IDK if that'd really make sense the way ''no selling'' makes sense, or if ''psychology'' always exists and it's just a case of good and bad. I also cannot stand when people use ''psychology'' as a type of mind games or something, like, ''Raven had great psychology b/c blah blah deep character blah blah''. The fuck he did. Dude wasn't a good wrestler. "Jake Roberts was a master of psychology because he smirked and his opponent got confused''. Ah bullshit. I mean Snake's fucking awesome, but my point is that that description of ''psychology'' belongs in the toilet next to calling every chunk of four years a specific ''era.''


I watched 11 Booker/Benoit matches from 1998 alone and they were all solid, good, or better than the Undertaker/Orton HIAC. Skipping that match was very shitty psychology, storytelling, structural narrative, and deeper meaning, Callamus.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

I hate wrestling because everybody has their own opinions about it. :draper2


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Yeah1993 said:


> I watched 11 Booker/Benoit matches from 1998 alone and they were all solid, good, or better than the Undertaker/Orton HIAC. Skipping that match was very shitty psychology, storytelling, structural narrative, and deeper meaning, Callamus.


Stop lying. Booker/Benoit had 1 good match back in WCW 98 and it wasn't as good as the worst Taker/Orton match in 05 (which was their SD match, at around ***3/4).

My psychology is spot on btw. You just don't understand what psychology is.


----------



## Terminator GR (Oct 3, 2007)

The Fab Four said:


> I want to rewatch some Shield stuff myself soon, been meaning to for a while but im making my way through WCW Nitro's atm.
> 
> Plus i do have Seabs' Shield comp so that'll help. :mark:


Can I watch all the Nitros somewhere on the internet? Btw I am not in the US so I cant buy the network.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Terminator GR said:


> Can I watch all the Nitros somewhere on the internet? Btw I am not in the US so I cant buy the network.


I know there are some still on YT, or you'll probably be able to torrent them if you can. I have a couple of years on Disc so i watch them that way.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Femto said:


> I hate wrestling because everybody has their own opinions about it.


NO! NOOO. Well, if you think that, OK, I can't stop you. But that's not what I meant. NO! Wrestling kinda has a defined term. I mean it has three or four (like wrestling as in in-ring shit only and wrestling as in EVERYTHING that happens on a wrestling show, e.g. ''do you watch wrestling?'' ''yeah Vickie doesn't shut the fuck up''). Psychology doesn't seem to. I don't kind of hate psychology (and if I did it certainly wouldn't be because so many people think differently), I kind of hate the use of the word (I put it in quotation marks before to show that I was talking about the word). Because really, I can't hate something when I don't know what it even is. Why is it, of all the goddamn words and shit to describe other shit in wrestling, why does that one seem to have no clear definition? I've seen a fuckton of threads on like a dozen wrestling forums that have literally been like ''OK, let's talk about what psychology might be''. I don't see any room for that when talking about a trait or something that, by all means, should have debates over. Someone could tell me Davey Riahcrds has great selling and I'd be like ''the fuck he doesn't''. Someone can say to me Kofi Kingston has great, explosive punches and I;d be like ''do you have fucking eyes????'' I wouldn;t know what to say if someone tried to tell me a wrestler I don't like has/had great psychology. I would have to ask what he even means, and the guy could mmean one or two of crapload of different things. Why would I want to determine whether a wrestler has good psychology or not if there's no explanation as to what psychology even is? I mean when I used the term years ago I had a meaning for it, but, FUCK, so did everyone else. It isn't like a different wrestling opinion. Everyone knows what selling is, everyone knows what offense is, everyone knows what promo work is, everyone knows what a superheavyweight is. Nobody has to be in agreement about what selling, offense or superheavyweight is fun to watch. Nobody has to even like selling, offense, or superheavyweights, but it's written in stone. Somebody can't come along and be like ''nah bro, selling ain't that, selling is when you doa move from the top rope'' That's WRONG. Maybe there is a proper use of ''psychology'' and 70% are wrong like this random jackass who thinks selling is a 450 splash, but I don't know what the proper use is and I kind of hate that everybody has a different meaning. I guess it's still an opinion when it's supposed to be an explanation for a definition. 

"Man, CM Punk has great psychology here" 
"What? No he doesn't"
"But _this this that_ _THIS_"
"Oh, I don't call that psychology, I thought you meant _etc this was supposed to be a very small paragraph I really hate you_"

This may or may not have actually happened sometime, somewhere. Whether it did or didn't, it's the kind of thing that could happen because the definition for ''psychology'' is so up in the air. 

Cookie for anybody that reads that in full. Or, a photo of me with a big SpongeBob pez dispenser taken with an awful webcam. *Note*: if you select Cookie, you will not receive a cookie.



#ROOT said:


> Stop lying. Booker/Benoit had 1 good match back in WCW 98 and it wasn't as good as the worst Taker/Orton match in 05 (which was their SD match, at around ***3/4).
> 
> My psychology is spot on btw. You just don't understand what psychology is.


I'm not lying. I AM TELLING A STORY. A real story about the time Chris Benoit and Booker T had a good match. I could tell that story many times b/c it happened many times. 

Oh and whoops I thought you meant psychology was ''watching good wrestling and not skipping over it''. 


(I have no idea if the match is actually good since I don't know if I've even seen it)


--------------------

Why are there still eight extra pages on the thread?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The extra pages could be from posts being deleted, merged, or someone who has been made "quiet". I have a nice 150 pages and no extras so I don't care. I SEE EVERYTHING.

Welp, doesn't look like I'll be tackling Vengeance today. What started out as "hey lets have a BBQ for tea" has turned into "let's invite all the family we still talk to for a BBQ this afternoon and make a day of it".

I guess this is a good way to test how far I've come with therapy and medication .

****1/3 for that match with the guy vs the other guy and all the psychology.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

What type of cookie is it that I won't be getting?

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

1/3 * should definitely become a thing tbh


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

#ROOT said:


> "let's invite all the family we still talk to for a BBQ this afternoon and make a day of it".


ew, company.



Rah said:


> What type of cookie is it that I won't be getting?





Spoiler: gifguekgalavkn;v















(same goes for cookies)




Agreed with Cal in the ****1/3, but the re-match is just as good. Not as good as the seventh best Benoit/Booker, though, maybe.


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Let's look at wrestling in 3 aspects. Setting (what the environment is), Characters (wrestlers and their motives) and the Rules (what is allowed, what is possible, are irish whips a thing etc.)

Actions of characters that make the best use of the setting while staying consistent within the rules is ring psychology. Using arbitrary examples that don't pass for psychology doesn't discredit this.

eg. Cena picks up wrestler for FU, wrestler counters by sliding down. Cena picks him up again and hits the FU. What changed from the previous time? Obviously something must have. Otherwise, there's a psychological breakdown in the match.

The cases of psychology accentuating matches basically comes down to a lot of bad wrestlers who don't know what to do. Kind of like water in a desert.

eg. john cena long-term sells an injury in 2014 rather than ignoring it BECAUSE.

Additionally, innovation can pass for psychology. But more important than all others is purpose. If the motives of the wrestler is misrepresented in his actions, then again, his psychology has flawed. If his actions highlight a side of a motive otherwise latent or unexpected (while still consistent), it invites praise.



tl;dr; PSYCHOLOGY PSYCHOLOGY PSYCHOLOGY


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wow, this Shield project is fucking awesome. I'm taking my time to rewatch a few of their most recognized classics that aren't the major ones (Wyatts I, Hell No & Ryback or Evolution I in particular), like the Elimination Chamber 2013 match against the Justice League Cena, Sheamus & Ryback or the Rhodes Bros. matches, and they're still incredible. However, this list is all about the classic gems along the way too. I forgot how awesome the Jericho, Sheamus & Ryback match was, or how awesome the Tons Of Funk match was too, or how awesome the second Bryan & Rhodes Bros match was.

All hail :ambrose2 :rollins and :reigns BAYBEE


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> Before I say anything, how did you rate the other matches?


From your list? I haven't seen like 70% of it to be honest with ya. Pretty much none of the TV matches and not a single one of the Evan Bourne matches. :lol Jericho/Michaels from Judgment Day and the main event Elimination Chamber match from No Way Out are the big omissions I came across. Haven't seen HHH/Hardy from No Mercy or Taker/Edge HIAC yet but those are usually highly touted. I really liked both Edge/Batista and Cena/HHH from Night of Champions too.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Spoiler: Smackdown



Ambrose vs Cesaro No DQ :mark: :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

You might have seen this. List of the matches given the worst negative marks by Meltzer. 



Spoiler: Meltzer's Worst Matches List



-5

Oct 10th 1999 - Heroes Of Wrestling - Bushwackers vs. Nikolai Volkoff & The Iron Sheik
Oct 25th 1998 - WCW Halloween Havoc '98 - Hollywood Hogan vs. The Warrior
Apr 7th 1986 - WWF WrestleMania 2 - Mr. T. vs. Roddy Piper (boxing)
Nov 7th 1985 - WWF The Wrestling Classic - Junk Yard Dog vs. Moondog Spot
-4

Jul 19th 2009 - TNA Victory Road '09 - Jenna Morasca vs. Sharmell
Sep 13th 1998 - WCW Fall Brawl '98 - The Warrior & Roddy Piper & Diamond Dallas Page vs. Lex Luger & Sting & Kevin Nash & Stevie Ray & Bret Hart & Hulk Hogan (triple threat wargames)
Nov 20th 1990 - NWA Clash of the Champions XIII: Thanksgiving Thunder - Sid Vicious vs. The Nightstalker
Apr 2nd 1989 - WWF WrestleMania V - Bushwackers vs. Rougeaus
Mar 29th 1987 - WWF WrestleMania III - Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant

-3.5

Nov 30th 1997 - ECW November To Remember '97 - Sabu vs. The Sandman (tables and ladders)
Apr 28th 1996 - WWF In Your House 7 - Ultimate Warrior vs. Goldust
Jul 14th 1991 - WCW The Great American Bash '91 - Bobby Eaton & P. N. News vs. Steve Austin & Terrance Taylor (scaffold)

-3

Feb 18th 2007 - WWE No Way Out '07 - Finlay & Little Bastard vs. The Boogeyman & Little Boogeyman
Feb 11th 2007 - TNA Against All Odds '07 - Christy Hemme vs. Big Fat Oily Guy (tuxedo)
Jun 25th 2000 - WWF King of the Ring '00 - Pat Patterson vs. Gerald Brisco (evening gown)
Oct 10th 1999 - Heroes Of Wrestling - Greg Valentine vs. George Steele
Oct 10th 1999 - Heroes Of Wrestling - King Kong Bundy & Jim Neidhart vs. Yokozuna & Jake Roberts
Sep 26th 1999 - WWF Unforgiven '99 - Al Snow vs. Big Boss Man (kennel from hell)
Mar 24th 1996 - WCW Uncensored '96 - Randy Savage & Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair & Arn Anderson & Meng & The Barbarian & Lex Luger & Kevin Sullivan & Z-Gangsta & The Ultimate Solution (tower of doom cage)
Nov 20th 1993 - WCW Battlebowl - Dustin Rhodes & King Kong vs. The Equalizer & Awesome Kong
Oct 25th 1992 - WCW Halloween Havoc '92 - Rick Rude vs. Masa Chono
Jun 9th 1991 - UWF Beach Brawl - Boris Zhukov vs. Paul Samson
May 19th 1991 - WCW SuperBrawl I - Oz vs. Tim Parker
Apr 2nd 1989 - WWF WrestleMania V - Jake Roberts vs. Andre the Giant
Jun 8th 1987 - WWF Fresno Show (Jun '87) - The Fabulous Moolah vs. Debbie Combs
Nov 26th 1984 - WWF MSG Show (Nov '84) - David Schultz vs. Rocky Johnson

-2.5

Oct 29th 2000 - WCW Halloween Havoc '00 - Mike Awesome vs. Vampiro
Nov 23rd 1994 - WWF Survivor Series '94 - Cheesy & Queasy & Sleazy & Jerry Lawler vs. Wink & Pink & Dink & Doink (Survivor Series")
Feb 20th 1994 - WCW SuperBrawl IV - Jim Steele vs. The Equalizer
May 19th 1990 - NWA Capital Combat - Paul Ellering vs. Teddy Long (hair vs. hair)

-2.25

Oct 10th 1999 - Heroes Of Wrestling - Abdullah The Butcher vs. One Man Gang
Jan 21st 1990 - WWF Royal Rumble '90 - Jim Duggan vs. Big Boss Man

-2

Jan 11th 2009 - TNA Genesis '09 - Roxxi & Taylor Wilde & O. D. B. vs. Rhaka Khan & Raisha Saeed & Sojourner Bolt
Apr 15th 2007 - TNA Lockdown '07 - James Storm vs. Chris Harris (blindfold steel cage)
Jan 8th 2006 - WWE New Year's Revolution '06 - Shelton Benjamin vs. Viscera
Sep 23rd 2001 - WWF Unforgiven '01 - Kane & The Undertaker vs. Bryan Clark & Brian Adams
Jan 14th 2001 - WCW Sin - Scott Steiner vs. Road Warrior Animal & Sid Vicious & Jeff Jarrett
Aug 13th 2000 - WCW New Blood Rising - Major Gunns vs. Miss Hancock
Jul 9th 2000 - WCW Bash At The Beach '00 - Vampiro vs. The KISS Demon (Graveyard)
Jun 11th 2000 - WCW The Great American Bash '00 - Vampiro vs. Sting (Human Torch)
Nov 21st 1999 - WCW Mayhem '99 - David Flair vs. Kimberly Page
Aug 22nd 1999 - WWF SummerSlam '99 - Ivory vs. Tori
Mar 28th 1999 - WWF WrestleMania XV - Sable vs. Tori
Aug 30th 1998 - WWF SummerSlam '98 - Giant Silva & Golga & Kurrgan vs. Sho Funaki & Men's Teioh & Dick Togo & TAKA Michinoku (handicap tag)
Aug 8th 1998 - WCW Road Wild '98 - Steve McMichael vs. Brian Adams
Jun 28th 1998 - WWF King of the Ring '98 - Brian Christopher & Scott Taylor vs. Al Snow & Head
Dec 7th 1997 - WWF In Your House 19 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Sergeant Slaughter (Boot Camp)
May 18th 1997 - WCW Slamboree '97 - Steve McMichael vs. Reggie White
Feb 11th 1996 - WCW SuperBrawl VI - Konnan vs. One Man Gang
Oct 22nd 1995 - WWF In Your House 4 - Yokozuna vs. Mabel
Aug 6th 1995 - WCW Clash of the Champions XXXI - Sting & Road Warrior Hawk vs. Meng & Kurasawa
Mar 19th 1995 - WCW Uncensored '95 - Meng vs. Jim Duggan (Martial Arts)
Mar 19th 1995 - WCW Uncensored '95 - The Blacktop Bully vs. Dustin Rhodes (King Of The Road)
Feb 19th 1995 - WCW SuperBrawl V - Kevin Sullivan vs. Dave Sullivan
May 4th 1994 - NJPW Wrestling Dontaku 1994 - El Gigante vs. Tadao Yasuda
Nov 10th 1993 - WCW Clash of the Champions XXV - Rick Rude vs. Road Warrior Hawk
Apr 5th 1992 - WWF WrestleMania VIII - Earthquake & Typhoon vs. Money Inc.
Apr 5th 1992 - WWF WrestleMania VIII - Hulk Hogan vs. Sid Justice
Oct 27th 1991 - WCW Halloween Havoc '91 - Sting & Rick Steiner & Scott Steiner & El Gigante vs. Abdullah The Butcher & The Diamond Studd & Cactus Jack & Big Van Vader (Chamber of Horrors)
Sep 5th 1991 - WCW Clash of the Champions XVI: Fall Brawl - Van Hammer vs. Terrance Taylor
Oct 27th 1990 - NWA Halloween Havoc '90 - Jimmy Garvin & Michael Hayes vs. Chris Youngblood & Mark Youngblood
Aug 28th 1989 - WWF SummerSlam '89 - Dusty Rhodes vs. Honky Tonk Man
Mar 27th 1988 - WWF WrestleMania IV - Rick Rude vs. Jake Roberts
Jan 24th 1988 - NWA Bunkhouse Stampede - Nikita Koloff vs. Bobby Eaton
Jun 8th 1987 - WWF Fresno Show (Jun '87) - Scott Casey vs. Jose Estrada
May 11th 1987 - WWF Oakland Show (May '87) - Kamala vs. George Steele
May 2nd 1987 - AWA SuperClash II - Jerry Blackwell vs. Boris Zhukov
Sep 16th 1985 - WWF Fresno Show (Sep '85) - Big John Studd vs. Mr. Wrestling II
Mar 31st 1985 - WWF WrestleMania - Wendi Richter vs. Leilani Kai

-1.5

Aug 26th 2007 - WWE SummerSlam '07 - Batista vs. The Great Khali
Jan 29th 2006 - WWE Royal Rumble '06 - Mickie James vs. Ashley Massaro
Nov 27th 2005 - WWE Survivor Series '05 - Theodore Long vs. Eric Bischoff
Nov 14th 1999 - WWF Survivor Series '99 - Mae Young & The Fabulous Moolah & Tori & Debra vs. Ivory & Luna & Jacqueline & Terri
Nov 22nd 1998 - WCW World War 3 '98 - Stevie Ray vs. Konnan
Oct 18th 1998 - WWF Judgment Day '98 - The Undertaker vs. Kane
Mar 29th 1998 - WWF WrestleMania XIV - Animal & Hawk vs. Bodacious Bart & Bombastic Bob & Phineas I. Godwinn & Henry O. Godwinn & Flash Funk & Steve Blackman & Skull & 8-Ball & Brian Christopher & Scott Taylor & Thrasher & Mosh & Robert Gibson & Ricky Morton & Pierre Ouellette & Jacques Rougeau & Kama Mustafa & Faarooq & D-Lo Brown & Mark Henry & Chainz & Bradshaw & Sniper & Recon & Jesus Castillo Jr. & Jose Estrada Jr. & Miguel Perez Jr. & Savio Vega (tag team battle royale)
Mar 15th 1998 - WCW Uncensored '98 - Randy Savage vs. Hulk Hogan (steel cage)
Nov 9th 1997 - WWF Survivor Series '97 - The Interrogator & The Jackyl & Recon & Sniper vs. Crush & Chainz & 8-Ball & Skull (Survivor Series)
Oct 26th 1997 - WCW Halloween Havoc '97 - Alex Wright vs. Steve McMichael
Sep 7th 1997 - WWF In Your House 17 - Savio Vega vs. Crush & Faarooq (triple-threat)
Mar 23rd 1997 - WWF WrestleMania 13 - Mosh & Thrasher vs. Blackjack Windham & Blackjack Bradshaw & Henry O. Godwinn & Phineas I. Godwinn & Doug Furnas & Phil LaFon (fatal 4-way)
Jan 25th 1997 - WCW Souled Out '97 - Hollywood Hogan vs. The Giant
Aug 10th 1996 - WCW Hog Wild - Hollywood Hogan vs. The Giant
Jun 25th 1995 - WWF King of the Ring '95 - Mabel vs. The Undertaker
May 17th 1992 - WCW WrestleWar '92 - The Super Invader vs. Todd Champion
Jan 19th 1992 - WWF Royal Rumble '92 - Blake Beverly & Beau Beverly vs. Bushwackers
Oct 31st 1989 - WWF SNME Taping - Dusty Rhodes vs. Big Boss Man
Mar 27th 1988 - WWF WrestleMania IV - Ultimate Warrior vs. Hercules
Jun 7th 1987 - WWF Sacramento Show (Jun '87) - Billy Jack Haynes vs. Danny Davis
Feb 23rd 1987 - WWF MSG Show (Feb '87) - Jake Roberts vs. King Kong Bundy

-1.25

Apr 2nd 2000 - WWF WrestleMania 2000 - Test & Albert vs. Al Snow & Steve Blackman
Dec 19th 1999 - WCW StarrCade '99 - Vampiro vs. Oklahoma
Feb 21st 1999 - WCW SuperBrawl IX - Scott Hall vs. Roddy Piper
Jul 12th 1998 - WCW Bash At The Beach '98 - Hollywood Hogan & Dennis Rodman vs. Diamond Dallas Page & Karl Malone
Feb 15th 1998 - WWF No Way Out of Texas - Godwinns vs. Jacques Rougeau & Pierre Ouellette
Dec 16th 1990 - NWA StarrCade '90 - Victor Zangiev & Salman Hashimikov vs. Danny Johnson & Troy Montour
Nov 20th 1990 - NWA Clash of the Champions XIII: Thanksgiving Thunder - Sergeant Krueger & Colonel DeKlerk vs. The Beast & King Kahlua

-1

Feb 23rd 2014 - WWE Elimination Chamber '14 - Cameron vs. A. J. Lee
Jan 4th 2014 - NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 8 - Kazushi Sakuraba & Yuji Nagata vs. Daniel Gracie & Rolles Gracie
Jun 17th 2012 - WWE No Way Out '12 - Santino Marella vs. Ricardo Rodriguez (Tuxedo)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Teddy Long was in a hair vs. hair match? I actually found two matches on that list that I like. Al Snow and Head vs. Too Much and Kaientai vs. Oddities were hilarious.

Thanks for the list Cal. I found Undertaker matches that I like more than you.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

_Aug 10th 1996 - WCW Hog Wild - Hollywood Hogan vs. The Giant_

 Im nearly at Hog Wild on my WCW project, just a couple of Nitro's to go.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Tbh I always interpreted a match or wrestler displaying great "psychology" as just that it made sense. Eddie Guerrero in his book talks about his ladder match with RVD on Raw, he says at one point "I attacked his leg with the psychology being that if his leg was hurt he wouldn't be able to climb a ladder". That's essentially what I always took psychology to mean, whether something makes sense kayfabe wise. I mean I totally get what you guys are saying, psychology can mean any number of things from selling to just doing things that make sense at a given time. For instance, I'd say it's BAD wrestling psychology when Dean Malenko spends a match working Rey Mysterio's arm (pre 619 days of course) only for it to lead absolutely nowhere, whereas it's GOOD wrestling psychology when Eddie chooses to focus his attack on Rey's back/midsection in an attempt to ground and keep him from flying around. That's essentially the gist of my view on the subject, and I swear I've had this conversation with Yeah1993 before :lol

Cal I can't believe you "NO'd" not 1, but 2 Chris Benoit matches. I don't care if Benoit was wrestling Giant Gonzalez or Bastion Booger, his trademark intensity will just about ALWAYS make something watchable. I'm also surprised in the order/ratings of some of your Smackdown 2006 matches, specifically how low Benoit/Regal is, and how you prefer NWO to the April SD match between Rey and Orton. I just watched that 4/06 SD match last night, I have to say it's one of if not the best heel performances of Randall's career. He has the cocky smirk down to a science, just a true joy to watch him work with Rey.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

^ Reading that post influenced me to check profightdb for Orton/Rey matches and apparently they have one in November of 05 that goes 14 minutes. Anybody know if it's any good?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The 05 match is very good. And I also prefer the NWO March over the April match.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

CAL doing the Orton/Taker HIAC match justice but ruining his ramble by NO'ing another Benoit match. Bet he wouldn't NO Booker if he wrestled Undertaker. 

And ff, when is your 2005 review coming out? If you post a list of stand out matches, you better not overlook that wonderful Benoit/Christian match from April. Watched it again yesterday and it's as good as I remember it being the first time even with Edge refusing to shut up on commentary.



Flux said:


> ^ Reading that post influenced me to check profightdb for Orton/Rey matches and apparently they have one in November of 05 that goes 14 minutes. Anybody know if it's any good?


The resident Orton expert to the rescue. 

That November match is solid but obviously not as great as NWO or SD 7/4/06. They have another one in September 05 that you might wanna check out. It's less good than the November one but still fun.

Only other time they wrestled was in 2011 right before WM27 but that shit lasted about 3 minutes until Punk interrupted from the titantron, so it doesn't count. At least they delivered a couple of classics in 2006 which is good enough for me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. Bubba Ray Dudley/D-Von Dudley vs. Matt Hardy/Jeff Hardy vs. Edge/Christian (TLC Match) (Smackdown 5/24/01)

'TLC III' - Unedited/Unblurred.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm just too lazy to do a full write up for both 2005 and 2000. Specifically for 2000, I'm still not sure what the MOTY is. It's a shame that 2008 ended up sucking for Rah, because I really wanted to check that year out after 2006, but I guess I'll just start doing WCW. What were all the television shows that WCW had? I know of Nitro, Thunder, Saturday Night, and Pro.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm just too lazy to do a full write up for both 2005 and 2000. Specifically for 2000, I'm still not sure what the MOTY is. It's a shame that 2008 ended up sucking for Rah, because I really wanted to check that year out after 2006, but I guess I'll just start doing WCW. What were all the television shows that WCW had? I know of Nitro, Thunder, Saturday Night, and Pro.


Main Event, Prime (95/96), Worldwide, Power Hour.

Personally, im only watching the Nitro's from 95-98 (Plus Thunder from '98)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I'm just too lazy to do a full write up for both 2005 and 2000. Specifically for 2000, I'm still not sure what the MOTY is. It's a shame that 2008 ended up sucking for Rah, because I really wanted to check that year out after 2006, but I guess I'll just start doing WCW. What were all the television shows that WCW had? I know of Nitro, Thunder, Saturday Night, and Pro.


MotY for 2000 is the Cactus/Hunter Street Fight at MSG. Don't over think things dude 

Following that bit of perfection, the dual main events from Fully Loaded would come in at #2 and #3 respectively, any order really because every time I watch those two matches I change my mind on which is better. Right now I'm in the Benoit/Rocky camp but that can easily change with another viewing of the GOAT Last Man Standing match. Actually, now that I mention it, the fact that Jericho and Hunter managed to work a near perfect match with wonderful selling and great pacing using a gimmick that breeds crap 3/4 of the time, I might have to go with a tie for the #2 spot.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Choke2Death said:


> Bet he wouldn't NO Booker if he wrestled Undertaker.


I wouldn't... and I didn't . Watched and rambled about TWO PPV matches between the two . No Mercy 01 (I think that's when it happened?) and JD 04. I'm a huge fan of Benoit, but he ain't no Undertaker when it comes to being my favourite and being able to watch any match with him in. I just don't enjoy the matches between Benoit and Booker T. Never have, never will. And my dislike for Booker has gone down greatly over the years .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Folks, I think the General WWE section has started to get A FEW senses working. But only a very few. There's now a thread calling Mark Henry the GOAT. Which is both cheerful (when you know they're appreciating Henry) and stupid (Henry is awesome but he's by no means the GOAT).


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Texas ten man is MOTY for 2000 god dammit.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

ATF did you even read the OP, its a troll thread :lmao

Thank you Cal for not watching Benoit/Booker, glad someone else can see the match sucks

And yes 2000 MOTY is BY FAR the RR 2000 street fight.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Starting my viewing 2002, currently watching the Rumble PPV and :flair already has MOTY

Should be fun


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Flux said:


> The Texas ten man is MOTY for 2000 god dammit.


x1qmjkd

If anyone needs it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't forget that a certain stipulation made its debut in 2000. That's the third match I'm bouncing in my head. Oh what shall I do? Perhaps rewatch all three excellent matches in mind.

Excited to see how the 2002 project goes. When I went through the year back in 2011, I found some super fun tag matches. I think there was one before Summerslam that had eight people. Undertaker may have lost cleanly on that match, which was monumental at the time.

Mark Henry = GOAT is not stupid. You're just ate up with stupid :henry1

Is there a torrent for those supplemental WCW shows on XWT? I tried to find one for Jakked and failed :lol Need my fix of Essa Rios and Joey Abs.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Dunno mate, can't do torrents.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Found an awesome freelech torrent for Raw & SD from 2009-2011. Gonna be useful for now as I'm starting to collect matches in my PC and getting rid of full shows by cutting out the good stuff to save space. Downloaded this awesome video editing software last week and have been getting PPV matches in HD thanks to it.

If anyone wants some WWE PPV matches in HD, I've been uploading a few to dailymotion. They are the Network versions so the quality is top notch. And yeah, they are mostly Benoit and Orton stuff but those are the ones I DLed from XWT and I can't DL too much or else my ratio is gonna go low and get me banned.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2000 MOTY is the Street Fight from the RR. Easily.



The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> *ATF did you even read the OP, its a troll thread* :lmao
> 
> Thank you Cal for not watching Benoit/Booker, glad someone else can see the match sucks
> 
> And yes 2000 MOTY is BY FAR the RR 2000 street fight.


Well, crap. Nope, I didn't bother to read the OP tbh. Thought people had sort-of opened their eyes regarding Henry. Guess that's too much to ask for unfortunely.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Giving the WWE Section far too much credit there.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

2000 MOTY is nothing "EASILY"...

... but it is Foley/HHH RR.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

2000 was stacked, but HHH/Foley RR is still the first match it pops in my mind for MOTY and always will be. That's why I used "easily". THERE.

And yeah Hitman, I don't think I should've expected otherwise from the WWE Section really.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I won't give any spoilers, but that Cesaro vs. Ambrose match on Smackdown... :mark: wow. Love, love, LOVE it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Psychology is just a term wrestlers use to make it feel like being "in the biz" makes themselves smarter.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Psychology is just a term wrestlers use to make it feel like being "in the biz" makes themselves smarter.



As I've said in here a lot of times, I listen to the Austin and Jim Ross podcasts pretty much religiously. One thing that absolutely bugs the shit out of me about JR's is, he is CONSTANTLY harping on how wrestling "isnt a complicated business, it's simple and anyone can understand it" (which is pretty much true) and then in the SAME BREATH he will take jabs at "fans on the internet who have read a few dirtsheets and think they know something". Um, how exactly does that make any kind of sense? So wrestling is really really simple and not complicated, but it's just impossible for a fan to have any ideas or opinions with any sort of merit since they aren't in the business. Okay, JR.

Then again, one trip into the General Section will tell you the vast majority of wrestling fans are people with questionable levels of intelligence.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c he knows that while it isn't complicated, fans of limited intelligence sure do their best to make it so.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Why does Steve Austin need to make himself feel smarter?

Mr. NAITCH (I think his name is Greg, correct me if I'm wrong) wants some 2002 hidden gems. Here are some worth looking into:

Goldust, Booker T, Undertaker & Rock vs. Un-Americans & HHH (8/12/02)
Brock Lesnar/Tajiri vs. Mysterio/Edge (10/10/02)
Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero/Kurt Angle vs. Edge/Rey Mysterio/John Cena (8/8/02)
Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero vs. The Rock/Edge (8/1/02)
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (11/14/02)
Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero/William Regal vs. Jeff Hardy/Bubba Ray Dudley/Spike Dudley (7/15/02)
The Rock vs. Chris Benoit (8/15/02)
Kurt Angle/Chris Benoit/Eddie Guerrero vs. The Undertaker/Edge/Rikishi (9/5/02)
Booker T/Goldust vs. William Regal/Lance Storm (12/9/02)
Rob Van Dam/Bubba Ray Dudley vs. Eddie Guerrero/Brock Lesnar (6/3/02)

This should keep you busy for a week.


----------



## Smitty (Aug 29, 2013)

Am I the only person who dislikes the JR podcast? That honestly bored the shit out of me when I listened to it, JR always sounded like he was falling asleep. 

Austins is great though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Never listened. Only do Austin & Jericho.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Japanese Buzzsaw said:


> Am I the only person who dislikes the JR podcast? That honestly bored the shit out of me when I listened to it, JR always sounded like he was falling asleep.
> 
> Austins is great though.


No. JR's 30 minute monologues suck and are boring. It kills the show before you even get into the interview.

Austin and Jericho's podcasts are the ones I listen to constantly.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I would listen to all of them but there are far too many podcasts going around today and I cba keeping up with every single one. Just specifically check out the ones that are most interesting to me. For JR, I've only listened to his interview with Kurt Angle and parts of the MVP one. For anyone who has followed it carefully, is the HBK one with JR worth checking out?



funnyfaces1 said:


> The Rock vs. Chris Benoit (8/15/02)


This one is awesome. I like how they were nice enough to give us that match one more time after their 2000 feud was finished. Would have liked to see them go at it with Benoit as the face and Rock as the heel, though. All of their interactions was with Benoit as the heel.

Another hidden gem I recommend is Benoit vs RVD from 28 July on Raw (I think). Its 12 year anniversary is coming up very soon.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I spend about 6 hours every day in my office, I listen to all the wrestling podcasts because it makes the time go by faster. JR's isn't great but it's not bad either, especially when he interviews other wrestlers like Foley, Austin, and Angle.

I did not know Benoit and Rock had a match in 2002. I've gotta find that pronto.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Speaking of podcasts, austin had on Dreamer recently which made me realize that outside of the powerful caining segment, anything ive seen with is trash if Funk or raven isnt involved. Outside of passion and toughness, Ive never seen Dreamer as a wrestler with positive atributes and view him as a giant recipiant of heyman's ability to eccentuate strengths/hide weakness and the lingering lore of ecw. Id love to be proven wrong if someone gives me a "best of Dreamer" list to maybe open my eyes.
On a side note, its intriguing how Abyss was signed by WWE and slated to face taker at mania 19 before abyss backed out. That would be an interesting dynamic.


----------



## Guy LeDouche (Nov 24, 2012)

Reigns vs Del Rio from Smackdown was REALLY good. Reigns looked great and sold Del Rio's offense quite nicely. Really enjoyed Del Rio's controlling of the match for the most part and Reigns' comeback near the end was really great. Great match.

I missed the Ambrose vs Cesaro match that everyone is raving about. Gonna get on that match ASAP.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Cesaro/Ambrose was definitely the match of the night.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I spend about 6 hours every day in my office, I listen to all the wrestling podcasts because it makes the time go by faster. JR's isn't great but it's not bad either, especially when he interviews other wrestlers like Foley, Austin, and Angle.
> 
> *I did not know Benoit and Rock had a match in 2002. I've gotta find that pronto.*


Pretty sure it was during the build to Lesnar v. Rock (c) at _Summerslam_.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Yeah, remember there being a visual of Benoit vs Rock match in the Rock vs Brock promo.



2000, I'd go Hunter/Jericho LMS for MOTY. And Undertaker, Batista, HBK and Cena vs MVP, Kennedy, Orton and Edge right before NWO 07 is a fun and one of the better 6 man tags at the time. Didn't like the one with Chavo and Kane in 08 nor the SD 2009 with Orton, Punk, Legacy and Hunter.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Man, Austin/Angle from Unforgiven 2001 is good and all, but it could have been so much better. It really did make me appreciate MITB 2011 that much more. Unforgiven 2001 had that same level of setup for something incredible to happen for Kurt, what with it being in his hometown, after 9/11, and against the man who has been champ for months. All of these things, and what we get is a good-great match, but not classic.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Wow, Bryan just stopped a home invasion. This guy is truly awesome, I bet you it was a 5 star scuffle because he's the only guy who could wrestle a good match with a broom. Sorry, Shawn.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

Bryan, Benoit and Jake Roberts have nothing on this...

*WWF Superstars*
*Vader vs. Tony De Vito*
Vader is a fat cunt. A dangerous fat cunt. De Vito has a 'hi I'm here' look on his face'. Vader is STIFF. He throws VICIOUS RIGHT HANDS. At one point, De Vito's ear flies right off into the crowd and is caught by a fan. Vader then motions into the crowd and does his 'WHO'S THE MAN' schtick before he kicks De Vito in the thigh. De Vito's thigh muscle flies into the crowd like a missile. I think it's caught by an overzealous Kamala fan.

De Vito is now begging for mercy the fucking jobber...Vader then proceeds to kick his face off clean with a swift right boot. The head of De Vito is flying through the air and bounces off the arena walls. It lands towards Vader once again, who has no choice but to smash his face in with a big right hand. He then gives his prone dead body the Vader bomb for the three count.

A great match I thought. Everybody loves a good Vader squash.

***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I do always love a Vader squash. More of these plz.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Excellent write up


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I've been laying in bed at nights thinking about how unpredictable this Lesnar/Cena match is. We know Lesnar has been working a 3 ppv system each year and this will be his 3rd... so is he gonna lose clean again? He's on the roll of a lifetime though. Went over Hunter, went over Punk, destroyed and buried Big Show, and broke the forever thought unbreakable streak. He has to AT LEAST win the match and the belt... right??? Even if they do a huge screwjob and Rollins cashes in with Hunter saying he always wins, Lesnar has to go over Cena right? This is probably the most unpredictable match I can recall since... I don't even know. Cena/Punk maybe? I'm pretty motherfuckin excited for it though, that's for sure.



funnyfaces1 said:


> Man, Austin/Angle from Unforgiven 2001 is good and all, but it could have been so much better. It really did make me appreciate MITB 2011 that much more. Unforgiven 2001 had that same level of setup for something incredible to happen for Kurt, what with it being in his hometown, after 9/11, and against the man who has been champ for months. All of these things, and what we get is a good-great match, but not classic.


I absolutely love how that match starts though. Picks up right where they left off at Summerslam, except this time with a role reversal as Angle is punishing Austin all over the arena. Believe I gave the match ****, so I was definitely a fan.

So ready to watch the Smackdown replay tomorrow night. Del Rio/Reigns and Cesaro/Ambrose No DQ sound doubly good. We got Usos vs. RyBaxel too right? Sounds like a solid night of wrestling, just what I like in my Smackdowns. (Y)


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

A good match I thought...

*From WWE Monday Night Raw:*
*Dolph Ziggler and Zack Ryder* vs. *Luke Harper and Erick Rowan*

The match starts off with Jerry Lawler complaining about Luke Harper's shirt. JBL and Michael Cole try and waive it off but Lawler is adamant: Harper's shirt is dirty. Harper hears these shenanigans and climbs off the apron. He is face to face with Lawler. Lawler is begging for his life until Cole points to Lawler saying that 'he deserves it'. This is purely a despicable piece of behaviour from Luke Harper, who proceeds to clothesline the bejesus out of the sick Lawler.

Michael Cole is laughing his bulbous head off until Erick Rowan appears and kicks Cole's head clean off his shoulders. Blood is everywhere and the front row are getting a taste of it. 'E-C-DUB' the crowd chant! Holy shit!

At the moment, Zack Ryder and Dolph Ziggler are playing rock-paper-scissors to the point that Ziggler does a somersault because he was rock and Ryder was scissors. Ric Flair intervenes and chops Zack Ryder one hundred and twenty seven times. His chest is in such a state that his chest is spouting blood like a fountain. Tatanka is at the base catching the blood into his mouth because he is a Red Indian.

Dolph Ziggler is still in the ring, playing chess with Mike Chioda, until Harper and Rowan grab him and drag him outside the ring. Ric Flair then stops chopping the bejesus out of Ryder and grabs Michael Cole by the lepels. Cole looks like he has seen a ghost. Lawler and JBL sit there dumbfounded. Flair pulls down Cole's britches like a bad mannered step child. His bare ass is on display, to which point Harper grabs Ziggler by the back of the throat and pushes his hapless head into the gaping crevice of Michael Cole's derrier. The body is pushed so hard up into his anus that Cole starts singing the theme tune to the A Team for no reason. Much squishyness is head. In fact it;s so hard up into his anus that his eyes start to pop out their sockets.


A few hours later, Ziggler is pulled out of the bottom and is rolled into the ring. 

John Cena appears out of nowhere and hits Harper and Rowan with a toothpick. They are knocked out cold. Holy shit! OH MY! Cena then drags the prone bloody raped bodies of Ryder and Ziggler over the Wyatts for the tag team win.

Awesome match.

***3/4


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I've been laying in bed at nights thinking about how unpredictable this Lesnar/Cena match is. We know Lesnar has been working a 3 ppv system each year and this will be his 3rd... so is he gonna lose clean again? He's on the roll of a lifetime though. Went over Hunter, went over Punk, destroyed and buried Big Show, and broke the forever thought unbreakable streak. He has to AT LEAST win the match and the belt... right??? Even if they do a huge screwjob and Rollins cashes in with Hunter saying he always wins, Lesnar has to go over Cena right? This is probably the most unpredictable match I can recall since... I don't even know. Cena/Punk maybe? I'm pretty motherfuckin excited for it though, that's for sure.
> 
> 
> I absolutely love how that match starts though. Picks up right where they left off at Summerslam, except this time with a role reversal as Angle is punishing Austin all over the arena. Believe I gave the match ****, so I was definitely a fan.
> ...


I think our trepedations are from the constant conditioning of a great set up only for Cenawinslol. On the surface, this is a lock for lesnar since Reigns being christened to the audience as a star is the end game here and the bigger rub lies in a dominant Brock. Factor in too that network numbers are apparently subpar, and Lesnar on top brings a different atmosphere and an organic freshness. Cena/orton are ultimately bred through the wwe hype machine and in 2014 are sort of like clockwork to the point of where many have almost lost sight of the ramnifications of being company champ. Brock always seems to be must see tv and that huge auora may be the change needed to get viewers. People pay to see brock kick ass, not get his ass kicked.

On the other side, WWE has been planting little Cena/Reigns seeds that may be nothing or something huge. Let's also not forget that there is no preface here for Cena to lean on like a tricep injury. That is scary as Cena IDK if Cena has ever lost twice without any bullshit. Guy rarely loses once without a preface or interferance. Remember, Brock has to go through Cena at NOC. These odds are big to overcome, and modern wwe booking scares me with cena. keep in mind too the underlooked fact that WWE loves to cram Cena into the history books, and Cena's next title ties the official flair count. swallowing the streak in he proccess is that much more of a feather in Cena's cap.


Seems bork will win on the surface, but Im skeptical as anyone (well maybe not hitman) BTW, Cesaro/Mox was very fun. By year's end, we could very well be looking at Ambrose as the leading WWE WOTY canidate since Bryan cant go and we have a little more than 5 months left. If Cesaro is back in a showcase role, he damn well will probably take it considering the world class role he was on earlier in the year, Rollins will remain a strong contender and luke Harper may not have a great solo bout to his credit minus the match he had brewing on RAW with Cena, but Harper is my darkhorse. With Bryan likely out and Sheamus on an ok but unspectacular year and Orton spinning wheels, its likely coming down to them December 31 unless Bray absolutely catches fire (unlikely)


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The next logical step for Brock is to win the title, but I'd have to see it to believe it. It sounds that he's down to work Night of Champions as well, which is great, but what happens? He wins at Summerslam only to drop it right back? Unless things have drastically changed, after Night of Champions, we won't see him again for five months at least. This is where they backed themselves into a corner with Brock's contract. You'd also think that Brock wouldn't lose to Cena twice (especially important since Brock works 2-3 matches a year).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE fucked themselves over by having Undertaker lose. That's all I know & care to comment about.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Brock/Reigns should be really good and fitting to end Wrestlemania on. Cena/Reigns I don't think will work too well if at all. I have a prayer waiting that Vince at least realises that and keeps the title on Lesnar. Booking for his appearances aside.

Reigns has great facials and emotive work while his hot tags are exceptional. Plug him into a match where he gets a decent shine to start and take a helluva beating until the end and the match will work. Considering Reigns' size and aura, getting him beat down by anyone other than lunatic Brock will just make him look weak. 

At the very least Reigns will be cemented strongly. How he fares after is still up for debate. I hope he proves his detractors wrong because he has the rough talent to be a very good hand. It's a pity that WWE want to hard push someone at another's expense rather than focus on organic material. Reigns and Ambrose are your hottest new acts thanks solely to long term booking. When last did WWE mega pushes work? I can't think of anyone.

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

RatedR10 said:


> Cesaro/Ambrose was definitely the match of the night.


Is there a link to that?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I wouldn't say it's anything near the OMGCLASSIC~ everyone's making it out to be, but Ambrose/Cesaro No DQ was frikkin' good for sure. Normally I'd expect an Ambrose match nowadays to focus entirely on shoulder work and "lunatic" comebacks, a formula that has been proving more and more succesful overtime. This one wasn't really that much, as it was simply two guys tearing each other apart. I'm not sure if the biggest loathers of weapon matches will enjoy it - though you don't have to worry about tables and shit - but I adored the viciousness and even creativity introduced here. Both Ambrose and Cesaro used their genius to come up with some unique weapon moves to break down the other, and when those wouldn't work, they would just say fuck it and hit him with a chair/kendo stick. Quick and good thinking there. Plus, DAT TRASH TALKING. You wouldn't see this much trash talking in even a Mark Henry match. All match long, they keep taunting each other. A lot. And the interference from you know who worked too, in part. So yeah, this was really good. Don't come in expecting a MOTYC as some of these folks might make you think, but you can surely expect a vicious, awesome ol' weapon fight here. I'd give it a relatively well sized ****1/2*.

For those interested, my current MOTY list (plus HM with every other ***1/2 match I have):


Spoiler: Current MOTY list



*(****3/4)*
Cesaro vs. Sami Zayn, NXT Arrival
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Elimination Chamber

*(****1/4)*
Triple H vs. Daniel Bryan, WrestleMania 30
John Cena vs. Cesaro, Raw 2/17
The Shield vs. Evolution, Extreme Rules
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, Royal Rumble
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Main Event 4/8

*(****)*
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Batista, WrestleMania 30
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 3/3
Randy Orton vs. Daniel Bryan, Raw 2/3
Rob Van Dam vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. Jack Swagger vs. Seth Rollins vs. Dean Ambrose vs. Kofi Kingston, Money In The Bank
Randy Orton vs. John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Sheamus vs. Christian vs. Cesaro, Elimination Chamber
Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze, NXT Takeover

*(***3/4)*
The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 5/5
The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family, Money In The Bank
The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family, Battleground
Daniel Bryan vs. Kane, Extreme Rules
Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Payback
John Cena vs. Bray Wyatt, WrestleMania 30
30-Man Royal Rumble, Royal Rumble
Bad News Barrett vs. Dolph Ziggler, Raw 6/23

*(***1/2)*
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 4/21
Randy Orton vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/14
Daniel Bryan vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 2/21
The Shield vs. The Real Americans, Raw 3/24
The Real Americans vs. The Rhodes Brothers, Main Event 3/18
The Shield vs. John Cena, Daniel Bryan & Sheamus, Raw 1/27
Sheamus & Christian vs. The Real Americans, 2/10
Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose, Smackdown 5/9
Dean Ambrose vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 7/25

*(Honorable Mentions - ***1/2)*_
Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt, Smackdown 6/13
Big E, John Cena & Sheamus vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 4/7
Randy Orton vs. Dean Ambrose, Raw 7/7
John Cena vs. Luke Harper, Smackdown 3/21
Sheamus & The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 6/30
The Rhodes Brothers vs. The Wyatt Family, Smackdown 1/3
Dean Ambrose vs. Cesaro, Raw 7/21
The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 7/7
Corey Graves vs. Sami Zayn, NXT 4/3
Sheamus vs. Bad News Barrett, Raw 6/9
Paige vs. Emma, NXT Arrival
Sheamus vs. Christian, Smackdown 2/21
The Usos vs. The Wyatt Family, Raw 6/2
Sheamus vs. Cesaro, Main Event 5/14
John Cena vs. Damien Sandow, Raw 1/13
Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio, Raw 5/5
Jack Swagger vs. Cesaro, Smackdown 4/25_


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, it's probably knocking on the door of my top 20. Still really good, though, and two performances better than AJ Styles' fish out of water work at G1. Hopefully Meltzer is eating his words regarding "there is nobody in WWE, maybe Daniel Bryan, that's on the level that AJ was here".


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm gonna hold onto that line for the remainder of the year in everything I review :lmao


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Watching Vengeance finally. EDGE VS KANE time.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, apparently Bryan is getting indeed another surgery, and this confirms one of two things:
1) he's due to retirement;
2) we won't be seeing him until at the very least late fall of this year.
Still, at least he can say that he stopped a home invasion with a BROKEN FREAKIN' NECK :dazzler

Anyway, how much into Vengeance, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ummmm... EDGE VS KANE .

This damn heat is preventing me from really concentrating on one thing atm. I start something then just wanna move onto something else or wander about the house. THE HEAT IS MESSING WITH ME, MAN.

Seriously wish it would fuck off already. BRING ON WINTER. Even with a fan on me I'm too warm to really get stuck into anything I wanna do. Still got 8 of those damn videos to edit. Got other shit I wanna watch besides WWE PPV's. Bah.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Ummmm... EDGE VS KANE .
> 
> This damn heat is preventing me from really concentrating on one thing atm. I start something then just wanna move onto something else or wander about the house. THE HEAT IS MESSING WITH ME, MAN.
> 
> Seriously wish it would fuck off already. BRING ON WINTER. Even with a fan on me I'm too warm to really get stuck into anything I wanna do.


:agree: Yup, Autumn/Winter can't come wuick enough, i hate the hot fucking weather. 

Watching Nitro 07/22/1996 episode. Week before the Hog Wild PPV (i think), where it is The Giant/Hogan for the title, so on Nitro they are having Atn Anderson/Giant match.....for the belt lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Speaking of bah, I'm focused on my Shield project, and it's unbelievable how many singles matches each member, especially Ambrose, had with Kane particularly. Shamefully, Ambrose is the one member of the trio who just didn't click at all with Kane, bar one single match :lol

Also, Rollins/Show from 3/11/13 is probably the greatest 40 second match of all time. FUN FUN FUN. Much more gems to find along the way, which makes me the more :mark: now.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

This is also the episode where Nash used Mysterio as a dart.  And Savage flung himself on the Outsiders' limo and got drove out of the arena lol.

It interrupted a rather fun Sting/Luger/Savage vs 4 Horseman match too.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just trying to remember, the WHC Ladder Match was the best one from last years MITB?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> Just trying to remember, the WHC Ladder Match was the best one from last years MITB?


Yeah. Very special match. But the WWE MITB ladder match was excellent too. Sheamus going crazy, RVD's return, physicality, Bryan/Punk interaction, and that perfectly executed ending. The only problem is that Christian had one of his weakest performances that I can remember, which slowed down the match and prevented it from being as good as the WHC Ladder match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)




----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Fab Four said:


> Just trying to remember, the WHC Ladder Match was the best one from last years MITB?


Yep, one of the best period. The other one was shit.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bryan Danielson vs El Generico (PWG Giant Size Annual 4)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2sfdnuvXRAza38qLee (Private)

People may want this one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Yep, one of the best period. The other one was shit.


Nah, far from it actually. It was great. I thought it was shit too on live watch, but then again, I was so drained from the PPV's awesomeness (Shield/Usos, WHC MITB, Del Rio/Ziggler and Cena/Henry) and so fuckin' pumped up for the match itself that it ended up dissapointing me on first watch.

However, on second, I "got" what they went for and they produced such a brilliant match there, with Sheamus wrecking shit and himself, Bryan being Bryan, RVD returning and piping in a good spotfest performance, lots of physicality, some decent storytelling along the way and a spot-on ending. Too bad the crowd was dead for more than half the match, but then again can't really blame them considering the quality of the show. If Shield/Usos had taken place on the main card, thus forcing Miz/Axel to be thrown into to pre-show and Jericho/Ryback to not even exhist at all (both men would be thrown into the MITB matches), MITB 2013 would've been a contender for greatest B-PPV ever.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I haven't seen the WHC MITB from last year since it aired. The all-star one have I seen twice and it was pretty good both times with everyone doing their part, specially SHEAMUS.

Since it's the ten year anniversary of the Benoit vs Triple H ironman match, I decided to check it out again. This is like the reverse HBK/Bret in that the first 50 minutes are fun non-stop action while the last 10 minutes is a mess, only this time because _too much_ is happening rather than too little. But really, for 50 minutes, these guys just go at it in the same pace with the falls all timed pretty well and far enough from each other in the context of making sense. The way the control of the match also changes is so well done, like when Benoit misses the headbutt and gives the opening for HHH to beat the shit out of him for 10 minutes and grab 3 decisions to put him in the lead. Then Benoit shows his never-give-up mentality by fighting back and evening it up before that messy, overbooked ending with Evolution, Bischoff and Eugene puts a damper on their hard work. The ending also made no sense. Triple H gets hit in the head with Eugene's chair shot two minutes before the time is over and he stays down for all of those two minutes until Benoit crawls over and covers him in the final seconds. ★★★★ is what I'd rate it now.

I have seen all 5 of the ironman matches this year now, except Brock vs Angle. And that I'm gonna do later this week.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Needed something to watch before i watch another Nitro, so ill finally check out the iron man.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I've only seen the all-star MITB twice. Match is just too dull and while maybe at some point I'll muster up the strength to re-watch it, I cant imagine doing it anytime soon. It also didn't help that I had high expectations for the match and then I'm left with such a bad taste in my mouth from it. It's funny because this year everyone seems to hate the Title Ladder match from the show while I thought it was good... but I went into this year's not expecting much of anything.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The problem with the Title Ladder match from this year was that, while it always kept a solid pace enough to make it all not totally boring, the lack of boring was more than made up with a lack of interesting stuff happening. It was all just basic and bland. I'm not asking for a thousand spots, I'm just asking for things to be kept as interesting and creative as the confines of a multiman Ladder match can allow. The All-Stars MITB was way more methodical than I'd ever expect it to be, but it still always managed to keep things interesting somehow. The WWE WHC one... not so much really, outside of a few moments. Even though I'd say it's still the best of the two Ladder matches wrestled for the WWE WHC (Cena/Orton TLC was mehland).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The highlight of the WWE WHC ladder match was not even meant to be part of the match.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Rewatched 4 of my favourite Summerslams today, had a lot of fun :

*Summerslam 2008:*

MVP/Jeff Hardy- **3/4
Glamarella/Mickie/Kofi- *
Punk/JBL- ***1/4
HHH/Khali- **3/4, call me crazy but I've enjoyed this. Maybe the best Khali match that I\ve ever seen
Cena/Batista- ****1/4
Edge/Taker- ****1/2

*Summerslam 2002:*

Angle/Mysterio- ****
Jericho/Flair- **1/2
Eddie/Edge- ***
Un-Americans/Booker&Goldust- **
RVD/Benoit- ***1/2
Undertaker/Test- **1/4
HBK/HHH- ****1/2
Rock/Lesnar- ***1/2

*Summerslam 2001:*

Edge/Storm- ***1/4
APA&Spike/Test&Dudley Boyz- **
X-Pac/Tajiri- **1/2
Jericho/Rhyno- ***1/2
RVD/Hardy- **3/4
Taker&Kane/DDP&Kanyon- **1/2
Austin/Angle- ****1/2
Rock/Booker- **1/4

*Summerslam 2013:
*

Kane/Wyatt- *1/2
Sandow/Rhodes- **1/2
Christian/ADR- ***3/4
Punk/Lesnar- ****1/2
Kaitlyn&Ziggler/AJ&Big.E- **
Bryan/Cena- ****3/4


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Reigns vs. Del Rio on Smackdown was Reigns' best singles match. That shows you Del Rio's value to the company. I think what made it different from most Reigns matches is that Del Rio filled every moment with either showmanship, wrestling, or smart, well-timed counters. Most Reigns matches have a huge pacing problem.

Cesaro/Ambrose was really good, and I wish that that was the match that they had on RAW, rather than Smackdown.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I still have the Bryan match as Reigns' best match by a big margin and that was only just good, Del Rio match goes with the usual trash. Only Reigns matches (outside of the Bryan one obiously) that stand out from the herd are the Barrett and Rusev matches (neither of which I'm necessarily crazy about, but just mentioning...)

Ambrose/Cesaro from SD was good, but I think I might actually prefer the Raw match they had... I'd have to re-watch both of them to see.

Also, since Srdjan brought it up, as far as favorite Summerslams, mine are probably the same as his, but maybe replace 2001 with 2011. Ratings for the matches I can remember:

SS 02:


Angle/Mysterio- ***3/4
RVD/Benoit- ***3/4
Undertaker/Test- **1/2
HBK/HHH- ****
Rock/Lesnar- ****

SS 08:

Punk/JBL- ***
HHH/Khali- 1/2*
Cena/Batista- ****
Edge/Taker- ****1/2

SS 11:

Barrett/Bryan- ***3/4
Orton/Christian- ****
Punk/Cena- ****

SS 13:

Kane/Wyatt- *
Sandow/Rhodes- ***
Christian/ADR- ***1/2
Punk/Lesnar- ****3/4
Bryan/Cena- ****1/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I still have the Bryan match as Reigns' best match by a big margin and that was only just good, Del Rio match goes with the usual trash. Only Reigns matches (outside of the Bryan one obiously) that stand out from the herd are the Barrett and Rusev matches (neither of which I'm necessarily crazy about, but just mentioning...)
> 
> Ambrose/Cesaro from SD was good, but I think I might actually prefer the Raw match they had... I'd have to re-watch both of them to see.
> 
> ...



SS 2002:

Angle/Mysterio: ****1/4 (best sub 10 minute match ever)
Eddie/Edge: ***1/4
Flair/Jericho: ***
Undertaker/Test: **3/4
RVD/Benoit: ***3/4
BookDust/UnAmericans: ****1/4
HBK/HHH: ***1/2 (first half was glorious, second half was trash)
Lesnar/Rocky: ****1/4

SS 2013:

Sandow/Rhodes: ***
Christian/ADR: ****1/4 (most underrated match of the last 5 years IMO)
Brock/Punk: *****
Danielson/Cena: ****1/2

Translation: SS 2002 wins in a landslide, in my humble opinion it's one of the top 2-3 best PPV's ever, along with Beach Blast 1992 and Spring Stampede 1994. I also like SS 2001 a fair amount, that one has Tajiri/Xpac, Austin/Angle, Jericho/Rhyno, and like 1 or 2 other good matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Bryan Danielson vs El Generico (PWG Giant Size Annual 4)
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k2sfdnuvXRAza38qLee (Private)
> 
> People may want this one.


Try and guess how mad I was at this result. Then multiply it by 50 for my brother's reaction. Not in regards to Generico losing like me. Back in his "Bryan Danielson sucks" days. What a terrible & humorous time. I should watch the video just to see him sit there lifeless & then flip off Danielson post match :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

God dammit, Choke2Death. Why aren't you seeding Smackdown 2006? That thing is taking eons to download.

Nearly done with 2001. The combination of Austin, Angle, RVD, and Jericho were a pleasure to watch. Jericho,Christian, and Undertaker's heel turns in the end of the year were pure bliss. But what the hell possessed them to ruin Kurt Angle? The man was more over than the freakin' Rock, and then he switched alignment three times in a month. Kurt became a perma-main eventer anyways, but just imagine how much bigger he would have been if they didn't book his run like a dumbass.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He probably would have ruined it himself anyways. Which he basically did.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well at least he still can say 2001 was his career year by far, regardless of his booking. For Christ sakes, the man had a ***** classic (admitedly he was there with one of the best ever in arguably his best in-ring year ever, but he more than played his part), and a few ****+ ones too, including one against his worst rival ever Chris Benoit (not that Benoit sucks by any means, he's one of the all-time greatest, but Angle always pulled the more retarded side of him). Which I can't believe you haven't mustered enough energy to rewatch, Cody. It may be 30 minutes but it's blissful 30 minutes. Possibly the smartest match Kurt Angle will EVER wrestle. Even counting the SummerSlam match with Austin.

Anyways, back to my Shield project, I really wouldn't think so, but I totally missed out on such an awesome match in the 6-man tag against Bryan, Sheamus and Christian earlier this year. vs. Bryan, Sheamus and Mysterio was also dope too. Why do I miss so much of this stuff when it does happen? Happened the same with Shield/Real Americans and I'm forever kicking myself for it. That's still my favorite 2-on-2 tag of the year, even though the Usos/Wyatts ones were better.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I kept telling people about how GOAT those lesser known Shield matches were. But nooooo, people just wrote it off as me overly appreciating recent wrestling in order to spite 2005.

Hmmm, so Jericho/Rock from Vengeance was actually really good. Can't really justify the other two title matches that night. But I think one guy in particular has solidified his status as worker of the year in 2001.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

There is no excuse for anyone not watching all of those "lesser" Shield matches. Big pack on XWT, freeleach too I think. Got them ALL. I downloaded it. You should too. All of you. Shut up and do it. Singles, tag and even their NXT stuff.

Welp, back to Vengeance 05. Need to finish this year off, then I get to re-watch all of 06 PPV again . Well, except RR, WM and DTD which I've already done.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh no. We're not letting you off here without you reviewing December to Dismember.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I've already rambled on it. So there .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

He has Cyber Sunday and Survivor Series to go, so he's not totally safe. 8*D

When do you expect having those videos ready?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well, it seems like it's FINALLY cooler today. Been up for a few hours and not had my fan on for the first time in weeks. Will likely get some editing done today. If I do it'll probably only be ep 3 out of the 10 I need to do .

As for the End of Year videos, I still need to record them, and fuck knows when I'll get the chance, if I will, any time soon.

ANGLE VS HBK TIME. No idea what I'll think of this when it's done.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

If your taste is better now then you'll think it sucks.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

He liked the first one even more than before so who knows. 

Anyway, I just watched one of the most controversial Shield matches - the Elimination Tag against Cena and Hell No. I hadn't watched this before, but I LOVED their 4/29/13 match and I knew this had potential. But I also knew many people hated this match. Maybe it's the fact that knowing the hate came from how Cena went Super over the Shield and "ruined them" when if anything they became more and more over with time that made me think the match itself wasn't actually bad at all. The control and hot tag segments were as great as always, which is expected considering the 6 men involved. And it made for some rock solid tag action. The booking however was pretty terrible - the only elimination whose booking I liked was Kane's, and even then it wasn't much of anything really. Bryan being out clean kinda annoyed me, and 2/3 of the Shield being out in a space of mere minutes once they went 3-on-1 was pretty annoying as well. And Cena getting the DQ win (the first 6-men Shield loss, non-clean though) was the biggest annoyance of them all imo. Still, rock solid tag action and a hot crowd made this one, regardless of booking, another Shield winner.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Sorry for the double post but this is pretty dead here, ain't it?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Can anyone upload the Cesaro/Ambrose SD match? I don't want to sift through or DL the whole SD episode TBH.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Don't think it'll be uploaded until a few days from now, so:

http://webvideoshare.com/videos/putlocker.php?id=52812427B3134758
*SKIP ALL THE WAY TO 28:50 FOR CESARO/AMBROSE.*


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Sorry for the double post but this is pretty dead here, ain't it?


It won't be dead once Cal finishes his Vengeance 2005 review. I'm waiting to see if he realizes just how bad Kurt Angle vs. Shawn Michaels was.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've been wanting to see all the Shield matches over again. All the ones I originally viewed as bleh b/c their opponents were piles of shit. Perhaps they weren't half bad b/c The Shield was so terrific as a unit. I'm probably on point per usual w/my original opinion & I know where all of their good stuff lies.

more people need to talk about Rollins/Reigns vs Tons of Funk.


----------



## The Lady Killer (Oct 20, 2006)

Bret/Owen cage *1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I did mention how cool it was a bunch of pages back, alongside praise for the Bryan & Rhodes Bros II and Jericho Ryback & Sheamus 6-man tags. I have actually yet to watch their NXT tag against Graves Neville & Woods but I've heard it's really good too. And if you talk about their iyo bleh stuff, I guess it's mostly involving Usos and Kingston, I think you should just brainlessly watch those menchild in offence and then get turn your noggins on again every time Shield gets control, really. That's the way how I typically enjoy most of their matches. 

Oh, and I haven't rewatched the Hell No & Orton Raw tag since it originally aired but Smackdown is fucking :mark: and I kinda wish that those who say Raw is better would be a little bit more real because SD is fucking rulesome.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Lady Killer said:


> Bret/Owen cage *1/4


Amen. I'd give it a no because I can't even sit through it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's just a load of junk that I shouldn't have to "put up" w/and look at differently to accept. It's the AR Fox topic in the Indie thread all over again.

vs Neville, Graves, & Woods is quite strong. Recall Reigns slaughtering Woods w/the spear.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Right then, just trying to give suggestions to not have those annoyances block you out from SHIELD awesomeness. Because SHIELD.

That sounds intriguing. Should've expected it considering the trio SHIELD tackled anyway. Shame Graves is done and Woods is a jobber. All in the while Ascension, awesome gimmick aside, will probably be the top tag team once they arrive. I like their character work, but their ring work is ugh worthy.

Also, today I've spent mostly watching dope short stuff involving SHIELD. Like the 3-on-1 Handicap matches against Ziggler and Show. And the greatest 40 second match ever in Rollins vs Show over and over. Makes my day. Also, I seem to be the only one to bow to it like deserved, but what do you think of Rollins and Ambrose vs Real Americans Cody?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> God dammit, Choke2Death. Why aren't you seeding Smackdown 2006? That thing is taking eons to download.


I would, but I don't have the torrent file anymore. I opened bitlord one day and all files were back to 0% and it was "checking" by going through every single mb it downloaded. That thing takes forever and slows down the PC to the point I wanna punch the screen so I had enough and just deleted the torrent altogether. Stupid of me since those were great resources for upping my ratio.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> Also, I seem to be the only one to bow to it like deserved, but what do you think of Rollins and Ambrose vs Real Americans Cody?


It's really good. Right mind to dub it the third best match Real Americans had on the year. vs Christian/Sheamus & Rhodes Dynasty being stronger. Granted, I've only seen the Shield match once; on the air date.

Someone be a wiz and find it for me.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Damn, this thread was dead today huh?  A sleeper Shield match has to be the one from Main event in February against Sin Cara & Matadores. So much fun.

Little late but I caught most of the replay of Smackdown last night. Cesaro/Ambrose was good stuff but I wished it went longer. Everyone is praising Reigns' selling in the main event, but how about Del Rio's work huh? Guy was on point with his vicious offense the whole match. Liked it a good bit.



The Lady Killer said:


> Bret/Owen cage *1/4


:|


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Didn't even seen Greg's post. Fabulous. :lmao

Reigns vs Del Rio was AWESOME.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

*2005: Year in Review*​


Spoiler: Matches



Chris Benoit vs. Batista (1/3): ***1/4
Chris Jericho vs. Edge (1/3): ***
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (1/6): ***1/2
Elimination Chamber (New Year's Revolution): ****1/2
Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. Christian/Tyson Tomko (1/10): **3/4
Paul London vs. Akio (1/15): ***
Christian vs. Shawn Michaels (1/17): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho (1/17): ***1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero (1/20): **3/4
Edge/Christian/Tomko vs. Benoit/Jericho/Michaels (1/24): ***
Randy Orton vs. Triple H (Royal Rumble): ***
Royal Rumble Match (Royal Rumble): ***3/4
Chris Benoit/Chris Jericho vs. La Resistance (1/31): **3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. Mark Jindrak (2/3): ***1/4
Booker T vs. Eddie Guerrero (2/3): ***
Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho (2/7): ***1/2
William Regal/Tajiri vs. La Resistance (2/7): ***1/2
Funaki vs. Chavo Guerrero (2/10): **3/4
Paul London vs. Akio (2/12): ***
Muhammad Hassan vs. Chris Jericho (2/14): **3/4
Randy Orton vs. Christian (2/14): ***1/2
Funaki/London/Moore vs. Spike/Chavo/Akio (2/17): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Steven Richards (2/20): ***
Edge & Christian vs. Orton/Michaels (2/21): ***
Mysterio/Eddie vs. Basham Brothers (2/24): ***
Chris Benoit vs. Muhammad Hassan (2/28): **3/4
Edge vs. Shawn Michaels (2/28): ***3/4
Funaki/Paul London vs. Akio/Chavo Guerrero (3/5): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Shelton Benjamin (3/7): **3/4
Paul London vs. Akio (3/12): ***1/2
Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge (3/14): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Triple H (3/14): ***1/2
Marty Jannetty vs. Kurt Angle (3/17): ***1/2
Paul London vs. Billy Kidman (3/17): **3/4
Edge & Christian vs. Jericho/Benjamin (3/21): ***3/4
Paul London vs. Spike Dudley (3/26): **3/4
Edge/Christian/Tomko vs. Benoit/Benjamin/Jericho (3/29): ***1/4
Billy Kidman vs. Mark Jindrak (4/2): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Kane vs. Christian vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Edge vs. Chris Jericho (Wrestlemania): ****1/2
Randy Orton vs. Undertaker (Wrestlemania): ****
Shelton Benjamin vs. Christian vs. Chris Jericho (4/4): ***1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Edge (4/4): ***3/4
Paul London vs. Billy Kidman (4/7): ***1/2
JBL vs. Rey Mysterio (4/7): ***1/4
Funaki vs. Akio (4/9): ***
Chris Benoit vs. Christian (4/11): ***1/4
Kurt Angle vs. Eddie Guerrero (4/14): ***1/4
Holly/Haas vs. Akio/Spike (4/16): **3/4
Maven & Simon Dean vs. CM Punk & Russell Simpson (4/17): CM PUNK
MNM vs. Eddie/Mysterio (4/21): ***1/4
Muhammad Hassan & Khosrow Daivari vs. Regal/Tajiri (4/25): ***
Batista vs. Christian (4/25): ***
MNM vs. Eddie/Mysterio (4/28): ***3/4
Nunzio/Funaki vs. Kidman/Akio (4/30): ***
Chris Jericho vs. Shelton Benjamin (Backlash): ***3/4
Edge vs. Chris Benoit (Backlash): ***3/4
Shawn Michaels vs. Shelton Benjamin (5/2): ****1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Triple H (5/2): ***1/2
Chavo Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (5/5): ***1/4
Paul London vs. Akio (5/7): **3/4
Kane vs. Chris Benoit (5/9): **3/4
MNM/Chavo vs. Holly/Haas/London (5/12): **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Jimmy Jacobs (5/12): **3/4
CM Punk vs. Val Venis (5/15): ***
Ric Flair vs. Christian (5/17): **3/4
Scotty 2 Hotty vs. JBL (5/19): **3/4
Booker T vs. Mark Jindrak (5/19): ***
MNM vs. Holly/Haas (Judgment Day): ***1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Judgment Day): ****1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Tajiri (5/23): **3/4
MNM vs. Holly/Haas (5/26): ***
MNM vs. Holly/Haas (5/26): ***1/4
Shannon Moore vs. Billy Kidman (5/28): **3/4
Paul London vs. Akio vs. Chavo Guerrero (6/4): ***1/2
Chris Jericho vs. Lance Storm (One Night Stand): ***3/4
Super Crazy vs. Tajiri vs. Little Guido (One Night Stand): ***
Sabu vs. Rhino (One Night Stand): ***
Mike Awesome vs. Masato Tanaka (One Night Stand): ****1/4
Dudley Boyz vs. Tommy Dreamer/Sandman (One Night Stand): ***1/2
MNM vs. Scotty/Moore (6/11): ***
Shelton Benjamin vs. Muhammad Hassan (6/13): **3/4
Cena/Jericho vs. Christian/Tomko (6/13): **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Paul London (6/16): ***
JBL vs. Undertaker (6/16): ***3/4
Kidman/Akio vs. Mexicools (6/18): **3/4
Carlito vs. Shelton Benjamin (6/20): **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (6/23): ****3/4
Kane vs. Edge (Vengeance): ***1/4
Batista vs. Triple H (Vengeance): ****1/2
Kurt Angle vs. Ric Flair (6/27): ****
Undertaker vs. Muhammad Hassan vs. Booker T vs. JBL vs. Chris Benoit vs. Christian (6/30): ****
MNM vs. Eddie/Mysterio (7/7): ***1/2
Matt Striker vs. Kurt Angle (7/11): ***
Eddie Guerrero vs. Hardcore Holly (7/14): **3/4
William Regal vs. Chris Benoit (7/16): ****1/4
Matt Striker vs. Kurt Angle (7/18): **3/4
Kane vs. Edge (7/18): ***
Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit (7/21): ***1/2
Christian vs. Booker T (Great American Bash): ***
Orlando Jordan vs. Chris Benoit (Great American Bash): ***1/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (Great American Bash): ***1/2
Christian/Jordan vs. Benoit/Booker (7/28): ***
JBL vs. Undertaker (7/28): ***1/2
Nunzio vs. Paul London (8/2): ***
Benoit/Booker vs. MNM (8/4): ***
Christian vs. Rey Mysterio (8/4): ***1/2
Paul London vs. Kazarian (8/13): ***
Randy Orton vs. Chris Benoit (8/18): ***3/4
Matt Hardy vs. Edge (Summerslam): ***1/2
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (Summerslam): ****1/2
Chris Jericho vs. John Cena (Summerslam): ***
Matt Hardy vs. Edge (8/29): ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio (9/1): ***1/2
Nunzio vs. Super Crazy (9/3): **3/4
Paul London vs. Brian Kendrick (9/3): **3/4
Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio (9/9): ***1/4
Batista vs. JBL (9/9): **3/4
Undertaker vs. Randy Orton (9/16): ****
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Masters (Unforgiven): ***
Matt Hardy vs. Edge (Unforgiven): ****3/4
Carlito vs. Ric Flair (9/19): **3/4
Cena/Show/Hardy/Michaels vs. Angle/Edge/Masters/Snitsky (9/19): **3/4
Christian vs. Booker T (9/23): **3/4
Regal/Burchill vs. Funaki/Scotty (9/24): **3/4
Nunzio/Vito vs. Mexicools (9/24): ***1/4
Matt Hardy vs. Russell Simpson (9/30): **3/4
Nunzio/Vito vs. Londrick (10/1): ***
Chris Benoit vs. William Regal (10/1): ***1/2
Edge vs. Matt Hardy (10/3): ***1/2
Mysterio/Batista/Benoit vs. Eddie/JBL/Christian (10/7): ***
JBL vs. Rey Mysterio (No Mercy): ***
Randy/Bob Orton vs. Undertaker (No Mercy): ***
Batista vs. Eddie Guerrero (No Mercy): ***1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Orlando Jordan (10/14): **3/4
Rey Mysterio vs. JBL vs. Booker T vs. Christian (10/14): ***
Randy Orton vs. Eddie Guerrero (10/14): **3/4
Booker T vs. Chris Benoit (10/21): ***1/2
Rey Mysterio vs. JBL (10/21): **3/4
Hardcore Holly vs. Sylvan (10/21): ***
Paul London vs. Juventud (10/22): **3/4
Christian vs. Brian Kendrick (10/22): ***1/2
Christian vs. Rey Mysterio vs. JBL vs. Matt Hardy vs. Hardcore Holly (10/28): ***1/2
Paul London vs. Kid Kash (10/29): **3/4
Big Show/Kane vs. Heart Throbs (10/31): ***
Ric Flair vs. Triple H (Taboo Tuesday): ****1/2
Shawn Michaels vs. John Cena vs. Kurt Angle (Taboo Tuesday): ***1/2
JBL/Christian vs. Mysterio/Hardy (11/4): ***1/4
Chris Benoit vs. Booker T (11/4): **3/4
MNM vs. Batista/Eddie (11/4): ***1/2
Brian Kendrick vs. Kid Kash (11/6): ***
Regal/Burchill vs. Mexicools (11/6): **3/4
Shelton Benjamin vs. Carlito (11/7): **3/4
Randy Orton vs. Rey Mysterio (11/11): ***1/2
Eddie Guerrero vs. Mr. Kennedy (11/11): ***
JBL vs. Chris Benoit (11/11): ***1/4
Londrick vs. Regal/Burchill (11/12): ***
Big Show/Kane vs. MNM (11/14): **3/4
Ric Flair vs. William Regal (11/14): ***
Chavo Guerrero vs. JBL (11/18): ***1/2
Triple H vs. Chris Benoit (11/18): ***1/4
MNM vs. Londrick (11/26): ***
Booker T vs. Chris Benoit (Survivor Series): ***1/2
Triple H vs. Ric Flair (Survivor Series): ****
Team Smackdown vs. Team RAW (Survivor Series): ****
Chris Benoit vs. Booker T (11/29): ***1/2
Chris Benoit vs. William Regal (12/2): ***1/2
Matt Hardy vs. Randy Orton (12/2): **3/4
JBL/Mysterio vs. Big Show/Kane (12/2): **3/4
Chris Benoit vs. Booker T (12/9): ***
Londrick vs. Nunzio/Vito (12/10): ***
Big Show vs. Shawn Michaels (12/12): ***
MNM vs. Batista/Mysterio (12/16): ***1/4
Londrick vs. Scotty Charisma & Arch Kincaid (12/25): ***
JBL vs. Matt Hardy (Armageddon): ***
Mysterio/Batista vs. Big Show/Kane (Armageddon): ***1/4
Booker T vs. Chris Benoit (Armageddon): ***1/2
Randy Orton vs. Undertaker (Armageddon): ****
Shawn Michaels vs. Snitsky (12/26): **3/4
Jamie Noble vs. Paul London (12/30): ***
Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton (12/30): ***3/4
MNM vs. Batista/Mysterio (12/30): ***1/2 (MARK HENRY RETURNS!)



*Most Valuable Wrestler of the Year:* Eddie Guerrero

It only makes sense to give the award to the man who went through one of the greatest character arcs I've seen on television. Eddie Guerrero's 2005 character was based on an emotion that he has mastered throughout the year: cognitive dissonance. For so many years in his life, Guerrero was fighting against many different demons, trying to resolve the inner conflicts that he had to deal with. They say that the best character a wrestler could play is one that reflects on their own personal lives, so it shouldn't surprise us that Eddie would put on a career performance for all of 2005.

The majority of Eddie's year was centered around his former best buddy in Rey Mysterio. Constant frustration over not beating Rey one-on-one led Eddie to lose his cool and eventually turn into the demon that he persistently tried to restrain. The actual story that made up the feud was rather awful to put it simply, but Eddie's performance was so admirable that he was able to turn something that would be best shown on The Maury Show into the feature feud of the entire promotion. Those facial expressions that Eddie would make. The way his body shivered every time he spoke. The shift in the volume, tone, and pitch of his voice. Every bit of detail in Eddie's work should be seen by any aspiring wrestler.

Like I said before, it only makes sense to give the award to a man who gave his entire life to a business that became his life. 

*Worker of the Year:* Chris Benoit

Choke2Death and I have talked about this theory that we have called the Benoit theorem. What the Benoit theorem states is that whatever show Benoit ends up being on, the in-ring quality of said show always improves markedly. Let 2005 be one of many years to act as evidence of said theorem.

When Benoit was on RAW, the show was the feature brand, largely due to its superior in-ring product. Benoit changed the culture of RAW in 2004 to becoming a wrestling show. Look at how he would have good matches with just about anyone on the RAW roster. When Benoit switched to Smackdown, the same thing happened to that show that happened when he went to RAW in 2004. Smackdown became the superior product based on its in ring quality. Benoit could be put with anyone on the roster and be sent out there to have a quality lengthy match to fill up the time on the show. He could also carry inexperienced talent such as Orlando Jordan and Batista to solid matches and hide their flaws. And when you put Benoit in a big match situation, he never ever fails.

*Match of the Year:* Edge vs. Matt Hardy (Unforgiven)

2005 was the year of the cage match. We had strong television ones in Edge/Kane and Eddie/Rey, a unique PPV main event in JBL/Big Show, and two of the best cage matches ever seen in Flair/HHH and Edge/Hardy. But man, the emotional roller-coaster that this specific match invoked puts it above anything else from 2005.

The theme behind Edge and Matt Hardy's matches as well as their feud as a whole was that you really couldn't tell how much of what they were doing was staged, and how much of it was legit. Clearly that was the case here. I'm not one to rave about stiffness, but the way these two punched each other looked no different from a fight on the streets. Instead of being a chase to the outside like the match that "Greg" just shat on, these two wanted to beat the crap out of each other in an enclosed space like they should in a cage match. Even Edge, who for much of the year wrestled like a chickenshit heel, wanted to take the time to kill Matt Hardy. But MATT HARDY WILL NOT DIE. Edge was in control for a majority of the match which was a masterful way to structure the action because it allowed every bit of Matt's comeback to feel that much more important. Lita's role as a non-wrestler was also executed perfectly as you just wanted her to get what's coming as she heeled it up outside and drew incredible heat when she came inside the cage. None of the tropes of a WWE gimmick match were excessively done here (weapons, interference, finisher spams). Everything was done in perfect amounts. They still managed to create so many moments of uncertainty and there were more dramatic moments that made my heart race than anything else from 2005.

Special props to the picture perfect ending to the match. This wasn't a race to the outside so it made sense for Matt to jump off the cage and hit the leg drop. Matt ended up losing the feud, but the high that we the viewer received at the end of the match was the greatest feeling in the world.

*PPV of the Year:* One Night Stand

Sometimes you just have to ditch the Cal Scale and watch a show just to have fun. Well really, you should always do that. An ECW reunion show on paper has a lot of room for failure, as seen by its most recent efforts. There was little to no room for error here, but knowing the WWE, they would somehow screw everything up. Well, not only did they avoid botching everything, they gave us arguably the most memorable B-PPV in company history. ECW wasn't about star ratings or AJPW-level workrate. It was about balls to wall action, and that's all it needed to be. From a super fun opener in Jericho/Storm, short matches that achieved what they were going for, a classic bout from two guys with a storied rivalry, and the best possible main event for an ECW event, this tribute show may have even surpassed the best efforts of the promotion that it was a tribute of.


My reputation for being a grumpy fool here was rooted in my rather strong feelings regarding 2005. Well I guess it's only fair to put this in bold for everybody to see:

*I was wrong.*

Wrong meaning that what I once thought was one of the worst years in company history was actually pretty fun. Lots and lots of memorable feuds with classic matches to supplement those feuds. Great wrestling from a wide cast of characters. Decent television. I guess my dislike for the year was deep-rooted in my resistance to the change that was occurring that year. Much of it of course having to do with my favorite wrestlers either leaving (Jericho, Christian), injured (RVD, Orton), buried (Hassan), or worse (Eddie). When you look at something from a more mature standpoint, it really does change your perspective on art.

Now that's not to say that this year was flawless. PPVs were mainly one-two match shows, the title scenes were oftentimes frustrating, and there was never a point in time where both RAW and Smackdown were great. This was also the first year that I remember watching where I disliked more babyfaces than I liked.

With all that said, if I had to put a number for this year, it would probably be a strong *7*. Now before you guys get furious, calm your tits! A 7 is a rather strong number, considering that I don't think any company ever had a 10/10 year, and a 7 would put 2005 above every year that I've reviewed except for 1997, which was in between a 7 and an 8. A better breakdown would be to look at each individual brand. The first half of RAW was a firm 8/10, whereas Smackdown still carried the stench of a poor 2004. After the draft though, RAW was fleeced out of its best talents (Benoit, Christian, Batista, Orton, Hassan, Regal, later on Matt Hardy), while Smackdown gave away its weakest aspects (injured RVD, Cena, Angle, Big Show, Carlito). As a result, Smackdown in the second half of 2005 was off the charts, while RAW was worse than it is now. The best way to signify the difference is that Smackdown ended the year with the return of Mark Henry, while RAW ended with a terrible promo between Vince and Shawn.

Have to say though, it was loads of fun to relive 7th grade. Now on to 2006.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Muhammaad Hassan getting buried was my favorite part of the year. Dude was so much shit. WWE & their amazing reasons for wanting to push someone. :ti


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Excellent write-up, ff. Nice to see that you finally admitted to being wrong in regards to 2005.

I also feel you under/overrate some stuff here and there. Just about everything from ONS has been overrated (I was almost expecting Benoit/Eddie on that list too) while some match ratings were baffling to me. Low rating for Benoit/Christian, the exclusion of the Vengeance triple threat (always love this one) and most of all:

Randy/Bob Orton vs. Undertaker (No Mercy): *** *?????*

It better be a star missed!

Also I must admit that I have never heard the word "theorem" spoken or even read it written until your post, so there's something that you gave me too much credit for. 

You make a good point in regards to the ending of the year too, as Mark Henry makes his return after nearly two years on SD (the superior brand) while Raw ends with a random segment between Vince and HBK that would lead into an awful feud that plagued majority of Raw in 2006.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Casket needs a higher rating. MOTY for 2005. Fight me.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Muhammaad Hassan getting buried was my favorite part of the year. Dude was so much shit. WWE & their amazing reasons for wanting to push someone. :ti


My favourite part too .

Watched the latest YouShoot with Gregory Helms and he talks about how much HEAT Hassan had backstage for getting that massive push despite being pretty shit in OVW and thinking he deserved it. But at the same time the company did want to put the belt on him, apparently he was set to win at GAB against Batista at one point but they changed their mind, and then the whole TERRORIST shit happened and yeah, no more Hassan .


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Pretty sure it was Summerslam in Washington he was to win the belt.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Ryan193 said:


> Pretty sure it was Summerslam in Washington he was to win the belt.


Ahhh, that would make sense. I had it in my head it was to happen with something big to do with America, I thought the Great American Bash PPV, but happening in Washington is what it actually was . My brain doesn't always work :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cal, one word for ya - VENGEANCE. Where is it? :side:



Hayley Seydoux said:


> It's really good. Right mind to dub it the third best match Real Americans had on the year. vs Christian/Sheamus & Rhodes Dynasty being stronger. Granted, I've only seen the Shield match once; on the air date.
> 
> Someone be a wiz and find it for me.







Might not better than those two tags but I sure as hell find it as my personal favorite of the three. Maybe just because of me marking like a bitch for a Shield vs RA match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

*Vengeance 2005*

Alright, last show for 2005! God I hope this holds up. Seems most people are down on this event these days. Either the HIAC doesn't do it for them anymore, or then absolutely shit over HBK/Angle, or both. Currently, SummerSlam sits at the top of the PPV list in 2005, which was the first one I watched. People told me it was the best and I should watch it last, so I told them to fuck off and I watched it first. Will that come back to bite me in the arse? Nah. I can fake enjoyment of the show if need be .

KIDDING. If this blows, I'll shit all over it. But I'm hoping it doesn't because I've always loved the event and the matches. HOLD UP, DAMMIT.


*Carlito Vs Shelton Benjamin - WWE Intercontinental Championship Match*

Remember when they stuck the US title on Carlito in his first match on SD? Then stuck the IC title on Carlito in his first match on Raw? And he completely sucked and never got any better?

Shelton keeps going for an early pin, and Lawler speculates that he is doing it because he's still feeling the effects of his crash and burn dive on Raw and wants to end the match as soon as possible before his health fails him.

Carlito keeps knocking Shelton down and Shelton is definitely showing the effects of his failed dive, but he continues to fight through it, causing Carlito to grab his IC belt and leave! If Shelton is still putting up THIS much of a fight despite being injured, maybe he should get out now.

Shelton of course chases him down and the match can continue. He's doing well against Carlito, but again continues to sell his injuries, which I guess is his head? Not complaining or anything I just thought his back would have been the obvious choice lol. The more Shelton dishes out to Carlito, the slower he gets, allowing the IC champ to take full advantage.

So Shelton is doing great with the selling of his head, being all woozy and shit... meanwhile Carlito decides to sit in fucking CHIN LOCKS half the time and kills any chance this match had of being truly great. STOP SUCKING, CARLITO.

In the end, Shelton goes head first into an exposed turnbuckle on a Stinger Splash and Carlito wins.

This SHOULD have been great. Shelton was pretty fantastic in his role to be honest, but Carlito seemingly not being able to work a match around an injury prevented it from being great.

*Rating: ****
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Victoria Vs Christy Hemme*

Hmmm... no.

*Rating: NO*
*CAL SCALE - -1*


Cena interview. Somehow Todd reveals he pissed himself as a kid at school.


*Kane Vs Edge*

Ahhh, the beginnings of Edge and Lita uber heels.

THAT FAP FAP LITA WEDDING DRESS.

How could Edge and Lita have a wedding on Raw btw? Wasn't she married to Kane? Did they even get a divorce? Why do I even care?

:mark: Kane looking over at Lita right before he starts punching the shit out of Edge. Kane is ANGRY. Kane gonna kill someone tonight.

WE WANT MATT and SHE'S A CRACK WHORE chants. GOAT match for that second chant alone .

Kane has been mauling Edge this entire match so far, but one move from Lita, pulling Edge off of Kane, allows him to smash Kane's face into the ring post and land a SPEAR on the floor! The momentum has shifted!

:lmao was that a YOU SCREWED BRET chant? EARL HEBNER IS NOT EVEN THE REFEREE. THIS ISN'T CANADA. WHY DID THEY CHANT THAT? :lmao

Maybe it was a YOU SCREWED MATT chant and I just heard it wrong. That would make more sense.

THE DEMON KANE is stil fighting back, letting his ANGER fuel him. Goooooood, goooooooooood [/emperor palpetine].

KANE EXPOSED HIMSELF ON THE TOP TURNBUCKLE~!

SPEAR COUNTERED WITH A FUCKING BOOT TO THE FACE~!

SNITSKY~!

LITA TRIES TO SEDUCE KANE~! HIS HAND AROUND HER THROAT TELLS ME IT MIGHT NOT HAVE WORKED...

STEEL CHAIR AROUND LITA'S NECK. Don't you do it Kane...

Yey Snitsky saved the day! I guess that makes up for the whole baby killing thing?

BRIEFCASE TO SNITSKY~! CHOKESLAM TO EDGE~! KANE WINS~!

Well, I say he wins. He's still lost Lita, and didn't win the Goldrush tournament for a title shot. So uhhh... yeah.

Good match. Kane was an unstoppable angry force and Edge was a sneaky heel trying to gain the advantage any way he could. Fun, though slightly mess finish too.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle*

Nice little callback to their WM match at the start, with Shawn locking in a headlock, the move he used to frustrate Angle in their previous match. Only this time Angle is perhaps prepared for Shawn doing something like that, and wastes no time getting back to his feet and shoving Shawn into the ropes to break the hold.

People complain about Angle matches having the whole "opponent out-wrestling Angle" schtick, which is certainly true for a lot of them, but I disagree with it at WM. If people say it happens here then once again I disagree. Angle would take down Shawn, HBK would try to escape and Angle would be on him again in a second. Shawn more often than not escape holds and Ankle Lock attempts from Kurt by getting to the ropes.

GERMAN SUPLEX ON THE ANNOUNCE TABLE~!

Angle probably could have beaten Shawn there with a countout, but Angle wants to PIN Shawn or make him SUBMIT, just like he did at WM, to prove that HE is the best wrestler in the WWE right now.

POWERBOMB INTO THE TURNBUCKLE~!

Angle is throwing out EVERYTHING to beat HBK twice in a row!

Kurt keeps going after the back of Shawn, just like WM, but he cannot put him away. Another German Suplex, another pin, and another kickout. Angle is starting to wonder what he needs to do.

Angle Slam attempt, but HBK manages to escape! He's not softened up quite enough yet, so Angle realises he needs to inflict more damage!

Nip up and no sell comeback from Shawn, but as he tunes up the band and looks to land Sweet Chin Music, Angle runs him the fuck over with one hell of a clothesline!

Fuck me, they showed the clothesline a couple of times on a replay. Looked even more spectacular.

FINISHING STRETCH TIME~!

Angle Slam. Kickout. Surprised nobody .

Ankle Lock... countered into a roll up!

REF BUMP~!

And the ref bump was utterly pointless. No pin attempts, no phantom tap outs... just Shawn being thrown to the floor, brought back in and put in the Ankle Lock when the referee has recovered. WHY DID THAT EVEN HAPPEN?!?!

Shawn apparently must have prepared his ankle to withstand the Ankle Lock for the same amount of time as WM, as he holds on for a long arse time and gets to the ropes, then still has enough strength for a SUPERKICK~!

:lmao at Coach. I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYONE KICK OUT OF SWEET CHIN MUSIC.

Ok, so the ANGLE SLAM didn't get it done. The ANKLE LOCK didn't get it done. Shawn is still throwing out those superkicks. So Angle does the last thing he can do. The single, most BRUTAL and deadly move. This is the kind of move that a Japanese wrestler would use for 20 years and NOBODY would ever kick out.

DOUBLE AXE HANDLE~!

At least, I THINK that's what he was going for. WHY THE FUCK ELSE WOULD HE JUMP OFF THE ROPES IN A STANDING POSITION SO HE COULD GE SUPERKICKED IN THE FUCKING FACE?

Shawn wins. God I hate that finish :lmao.

Overall.. I STILL like this match. It ain't garbage. But at the same time, it's nowhere near their WM match. I used to consider this to be better, but no more.

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


Batista interview, that leads into a small brawl (hey, anyone remember that Twisted Metal game? Was awesome) with him and HHH.

LILLIAN GARCIA FAP FAP. She's got the hots for VISCERA. I miss the WORLD'S LARGEST LOVE MACHINE gimmick. Viscera coming out in the smoking jacket like a giant black Hugh Hefner was awesome. LILLIAN sings to Viscera, then asks him to marry her!!!

Awww, a nice happy ending to this love story! UNTIL THE GODFATHER SHOWS UP WITH HIS HOS AND RUINS THE WHOLE THING :lmao. THESE ARE BABYFACES RUINING THE LIFE OF LILLIAN :lmao.


*John Cena Vs Chris Jericho Vs Christian - WWE Championship Match*

So this starts off as predictable as can be. Jericho and Christian OMG SHOCKINGLY team up against Cena. Then for some reason Tomko decides to take out Jericho, which gets him sent to the back.

F-U TO CHRISTIAN OVER THE ROPES TO THE FLOOR~! Props to Christian for taking an almost fully flat back bump from that height to the floor!

And hey, that's at least a good way to get rid of Christian for a while to give us the typical 1 on 1 action in a triple threat match.

Jericho tries to suplex Cena through the announce table, and the fans chant EEEE SEEEEE DUB like morons. Cena ends up reversing it and nearly kills Jericho on what looked like a botched DDT. Seemed like Jericho thought Cena was going to reverse the suplex into a suplex of his own, but Cena was actually going for a DDT the whole time.

:lmao Hebner takes the greatest ref bump ever and practically no sells it!!! I guess there was no planned ref bump there so he wasn't able to sell it . Which is a shame because it could have put him out longer than the ref in Taker/HHH WM 17 8*D.

Cena fucking SMASHES into the steel steps, and it looks like his mouth is bleeding too. Not sure if it happened there but I would understand if it did.

"ALL 3 MEN ARE DOWN AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THE REFEREE IS COUNTING BECAUSE THERE ARE NO COUNTOUTS" - JR :lmao.

The pace starts to pick up as all 3 men get involved in the action at the same time, giving us some fun and unique triple threat moves, something a lot of these matches fail to give us.

TOMKO HIT AND RUN~! CHRISTIAN IS ABOUT TO WIN THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP~!

And of course Cena kicks out.

F-U to Christian and this is over with.

Fun match!

*Rating: ***1/4*
*CAL SCALE - 2*


*Batista Vs Triple H - World Heavyweight Championship Hell in a Cell Match*

Basic start to this match, with the typical "throw each other into the side of the cell" stuff. Not until the CHAIN comes out does this match get interesting.

HHH WHIPS BATISTA WITH THE CHAIN... and the best part is the referee's reaction :lmao. Then Batista sells being choked out by the chain before HHH can apply any kind of pressure :lmao. After that though, some of the choking spots in the ropes look pretty fucking violent tbh. Good stuff.

I think Batista has been watching the GOAT match leading up to this, as he emulates Undertaker picking up HBK and smashing him from ring post then into the cage over and over again. Except HHH is heavier than Shawn and Batista doesn't seem to be as strong as perhaps Undertaker was in 1997, and after a couple of slams into each side Batista almost drops HHH out of exhaustion .

HHH gets busted open from just being pushed head first into the side of the cell. I dunno, feels like a crappy way to get busted open in 2005 during a HIAC match tbh .

SPINEBUSTER~! Seems that HHH bleeding just motivated him a little.

BARBED WIRE STEEL CHAIR~!

HHH smashes it down on Batista's back, and Batista has a bunch of little puncture wounds on his back :mark:. Props to Batista for taking that chair shot TWICE to the back.

Then HHH takes a shot to the fucking FACE with the chair. Fuck taking shots to the back like a pussy 8*D.

"HE MAY BE A NO GOOD BASTARD IN A LOT OF PEOPLE'S EYES" :lmao JR rules.

So Batista took two shots to the back with the barbed wire chair. HHH out did him with a shot to the face. So Batista is going all out and takes a fucking DDT on it!!!

:lmao a fan is chanting BORING :lmao. Literally just ONE fan :lmao.

SLEDGEHAMMER~! I like how at the start of the match, the referee didn't give a SHIT that HHH was using a chain. The Sledgehammer comes in and apparently that's a no no .

SLEDGEHAMMER TO BATISTA~!

LOW BLOW TO HHH~!

Batista rises up and gets the sledgehammer for himself and looks evil as fuck. He's gonna CAVE HHH'S SKULL IN with it. And then HHH smacks him in the face with the steel chain before he gets the chance .

Ha, pretty fucking awesome spot with Batista using the sledgehammer in place of his boot to counter HHH coming off the ropes, and HHH SPEWS BLOOD before collapsing in pain :mark:.

That seems to be the turning point as THE ANIMAL begins to build some real momentum and absolutely destroy HHH. And then...

PEDIGREE~!

BATISTA KICKS OUT~!

Spinebuster on the steel steps. No CAPS or ~! for that because Batista placed HHH down so fucking gently he might as well not fucking bothered.

Batista sets up THE GAME for a Batista Bomb, but HHH grabs the Sledgehammer. HHH is coming down onto Batista's head with the hammer, but Batista hits the BOMB first and gets the win!

So this had plenty of VIOLENCE~! and HATE~! but... was just missing something and honestly I can't place what it was. Maybe some sort of real structure, I dunno. I can't describe it. It's still a great match, just not the classic I once considered it to be.

*Rating: *****
*CAL SCALE - 5*



*Overall CAL SCALE - 12*​


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

> Overall.. I STILL like this match. It ain't garbage. But at the same time, it's nowhere near their WM match. I used to consider this to be better, but no more.
> 
> Rating: ***1/4
> CAL SCALE - 2


piece a trash


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I guess that safely puts Vengeance in your top 10 shows of the year, right? 8*D

Great review there. Prepare to get shat on for not hating Shawn/Angle II, but respect from me for giving Kane/Edge and the Triple Threat their well deserved recognition.

So you're moving to 2006 right? You have WM 22, RR and DTD done. If you're gonna do like 05 and troll everyone, start/end with No Mercy. And counter that with, say, Unforgiven, since that's the most acclaimed show of the year by most people outside here.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

No idea what I'm starting and ending 06 with. So many SD shows I love that year, but half of the Raw ones I ain't seen since they aired. Decisions decisions.

I'll write up an end of year post later for 05.


----------



## Eulonzo (Jun 3, 2012)

I was watching some of Punk's promos during the Heyman/Lesnar feud and I have to admit, I fucking miss him. :side:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Cal, one word for ya - VENGEANCE. Where is it? :side:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mind giving me a date for the Shield vs. RA match so I can watch it on the network? I'd look it up, but I don't wanna spoil the result


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Mind giving me a date for the Shield vs. RA match so I can watch it on the network? I'd look it up, but I don't wanna spoil the result


03.24.2014.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

24/03


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Hey is it alright to Review shows in this thread? Thinking about doing one on December To Dismember AKA We want to mess up ECW and kill its legacy.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Show reviews is what's mostly done here, so yeah.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I have to admit, I really love the Batista/Trips HiaC match. It's my 3rd favorite cell match ever, just a grueling, beastly, violent, fight to the death type match. The highlights for me were seeing Hunter take the Barbwire chair directly to the face, and seeing Batista hit Hunter in the throat with the sledge and Hunter spewing blood out of his mouth. That and the WM 23 match with Taker are clearly Batista's two best matches IMO, and the only matches from him I would give "classic" status. I think I rated it ****1/2 on last watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Batista/H HIAC is indeed one of the best HIAC's ever, and one of the most brutal and vicious ones too. Reminded me a lot of not just deathmatches, but of some of the most barbaric Mick Foley matches out there (and not just for the barbed wire 8*D). I'd say it's Batista's best match ever, with the war against Taker at WM 23 coming in second.

Thoughts on NXT now holding KENTA, Devitt and Steen? I think the latter two are more than valuable assets to the company. KENTA, I've never seen much of him other than the Danielson match (which was fucking incredible), and I wanted to watch the Takayama 2011 match but never got to, but given how he seems to be hated by a lot of people in this board, need to know more about him really.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> Batista/H HIAC is indeed one of the best HIAC's ever, and one of the most brutal and vicious ones too. Reminded me a lot of not just deathmatches, but of some of the most barbaric Mick Foley matches out there (and not just for the barbed wire 8*D). I'd say it's Batista's best match ever, with the war against Taker at WM 23 coming in second.
> 
> Thoughts on NXT now holding KENTA, Devitt and Steen? I think the latter two are more than valuable assets to the company. KENTA, I've never seen much of him other than the Danielson match (which was fucking incredible), and I wanted to watch the Takayama 2011 match but never got to, but given how he seems to be hated by a lot of people in this board, need to know more about him really.


ESSENTIAL KENTA matches to watch:

vs. Low-Ki (RoH Final Battle 2005)
vs. Kanemuru (NOAH) 7/18/05
vs. Matt Sydal (ROH 11/4/06)
vs. Naomichi Marufuji 29/10/2006 
& Naomichi Marufuji vs. WILD 2 (NOAH 7/16/06) (Yiu can find this on my DM Channel
vs. SUWA (NOAH) 9/18/05
vs. Kenta Kobashi (NOAH 3/5/06)

The first two esp i fucking LOVE TO DEATH and both are classics IMHO.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Essential KENTA and you don't include his match with TENRYU? Who the fuck could forget that match? :side:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Rights, thanks Hitman. Will get on a few of those, especially the Kobashi and Low Ki ones. Anything w/Low Ki in it sounds :mark:, and I'm a huge fan of Kobashi as well.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Tbf I couldn't give any less of a shit about KENTA or Devitt until they actually show up on TV and prove their worth. From what I have seen of both (Which isn't a great deal, but enough for me to make a reasonably fair judgement) I don't care for either and I'll pretty much guarantee most on this forum who are like "OMG KENTA AND DEVITT REAL ROCK N ROLLA BITW" are just falling for hype and have seen very little, if anything.

Since the Mistico debacle, almost every talent that is signed to the WWE, regardless of how good they may or may not be, is on a kinda' "guilty until proven innocent" type deal, with me.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Just watched Shelton Benjamin vs Triple H from RAW 3/29/04 and it was every bit as good as I remembered it being. Especially liked the first 5-6 minutes. 

Trips pushes Benjamin to the corner and gently slaps him into the face after ref seperates them. Benjamin takes him down and outgrapples him until Trips reaches the ropes and the ref has to seperate them again. Trips is getting up, when Benjamin gently slaps him to the face. Trips's face after that :lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Batista/HHH cell is definitely one of the best cell matches, off the top of my head only behind the original, Taker/Brock and. Taker/Edge. Also Batista's second best match ever and a top 5 HHH match. What I'd call HHH's last classic as well. Brilliantly brutal.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I remember really enjoying Batista vs. HHH in the Cell. I only watched it once though and it was a long time ago. I might go back and rewatch that sometime.

I've been feeling like watching the Punk vs. Cena match from Raw last year to see how that one holds up. I'm pretty sure it was the last Cena/Punk match too, no?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Batista/HHH might be my favorite cell match ever. Definitely in the top 5 along with Taker/HBK, Brock/Taker, Orton/Taker and.... have to think about the fifth one.

Also nice to see Cal give Vengeance a consistently positive rating. :hb



MoxleyMoxx said:


> Just watched Shelton Benjamin vs Triple H from RAW 3/29/04 and it was every bit as good as I remembered it being. Especially liked the first 5-6 minutes.
> 
> Trips pushes Benjamin to the corner and gently slaps him into the face after ref seperates them. Benjamin takes him down and outgrapples him until Trips reaches the ropes and the ref has to seperate them again. Trips is getting up, when Benjamin gently slaps him to the face. Trips's face after that :lmao


HHH's "stoically shocked" face is always the best. :lol


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

1. Taker/HBK
2. Taker/Brock
3. Trips/Batista
4. Foley/Trips
5. Foley/Taker

Is how I personally rank the top Hell in a Cell bouts. Taker/Foley is surely the most memorable with the best, most powerful story, but the others from an actual match quality standpoint are slightly ahead of it (not that you can blame either Taker or Foley because Foley was died twice in that match and Taker was wrestling on a broken ankle). 

Here is hoping (and praying) that WWE doesn't fuck this Ambrose/Rollins feud up and that we get an epic climax at HiaC this year. Those two are the best choice for restoring the once proud legacy of that match. Personally, I'm looking forward to Rollins/Ambrose at SS even more than Cena/Brock, even though I seriously doubt the former is giving us a definitive finish (or atleast we shouldn't be getting a definitive finish :side


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cal not hating the opener or Michaels/Angle from Vengeance. Ha.

Triple H's best HIAC match is the six man from Armageddon. 8*D

oh lordy. KENTA vs Kanemaru from Destiny :lmao everyone watch to see how wrestling shouldn't be. Love how practically everything else on the super show is good/great, but then that happens right in the middle. Black hole. Ha. Bless Kobashi vs Sasaki. _(and Kawada vs Misawa being surly old dudes)_ KENTA's best matches are from his ROH tour or getting beat up by a great heavyweight vet like Kobashi or Tenryu. That knob giving out one of the worst performances last year vs Shane Haste will live w/me forever. Hard to believe I still kind of have hope WWE can lower his shit down & highlight all good signs about him. But his emoting is trash too, so we'll see. Meh.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Here is hoping (and praying) that WWE doesn't fuck this Ambrose/Rollins feud up and that we get an epic climax at HiaC this year. Those two are the best choice for restoring the once proud legacy of that match. Personally, I'm looking forward to Rollins/Ambrose at SS even more than Cena/Brock, even though I seriously doubt the former is giving us a definitive finish (or atleast we shouldn't be getting a definitive finish :side


Blimey, I forgot all about some Jacobs recs for you:

vs Nigel McGuinness - ROH The Tokyo Summit _(positively underrated; tremendous stuff. as if the title doesn't tell ya, it happens in Japan too. gives it a different feel for the match)_

vs Bryan Danielson - ROH Unscripted III _(omggggggg)_

vs BJ Whitmer _(unfortunately you saw the steel cage first, but go back and watch their series in order. even the matches outside of ROH are worth a look. First match is from Dragon Gate Challenge. Infamous moment occurs. Personal favorite is their Falls Count Anywhere match from Fifth Year Festival: Finale. Still in line as a top ten ROH match.)_

vs Bryan Danielson AND BJ Whitmer - ROH Throwdown _(YES. a superbly defined Jacobs underdog performance)_

vs Austin Aries - ROH Vendetta II, ROH Ring of Homicide II, Dog Collar Match: ROH Bound by Hate, I Quit Match: ROH Rising Above '08 _(really good feud as a whole, despite some booking of matches being favorable on one side. which still frustrates me to this day. Jacobs was riding high as leader of Age of the Fall during this. plenty of tag matches in the mix too, but i'll list them separately)_

vs Alex Shelley - I Quit Match: ROH Joe vs Punk II

w/Tyler Black vs El Generico & Kevin Steen - ROH Driven '08 _(look at all four involved, yeaaaaaaaahhh)_

w/Tyler Black vs Bryan Danielson & Austin Aries - ROH Respect is Earned II mark

w/Tyler Black vs Chris Sabin & Alex Shelley - ROH Tag Wars '08

I'm missing plenty more, but this will suffice for now. Got lazy and only stuck w/ROH stuff too. But I've loved the guy from anywhere he's worked - had a real dominate run in IWA-MS for example - although you'll get your fill if you can catch some of these essentials.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cal not hating the opener or Michaels/Angle from Vengeance. Ha.
> 
> Triple H's best HIAC match is the six man from Armageddon. 8*D
> 
> ...


Oh shit. All those sound amazing. Thank you very very much


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Never liked KENTA. He can absolutely be a good wrestler, but it seems circumstantial. It almost always depends on who he's in the ring with. If he's with Takayama or SUWA, he'll be really good and work-from-the-bottom, if he's with Kobashi, he'll be a bit of a dick and be good at it. If he's with fucking shitty as fuck dogshit awful dogshit hogshit pigshit horseshit dogshit Marufuji or Kanemaru, then he'll suck just as much as they do and no sell fucking everything. The more famous KENTA/Marufuji (10/29/06) has them literally hitting German suplexes and getting up to hit more German suplexes. I am seriously not exaggerating. It's like German suplex, get up > German suplex, get up > German suplex, get up > German suplex, get up > German suplex, land on feet > German suplex. Do most people here not like Benoit/Angle from the Rumble any more? Neither do I but this is so much worse. I guess the first half is OK (sort of like Benoit/Angle as well). Well, my thoughts on the match a while back says the first half is OK. Whatever, 2012 me.

I remember KENTA/Kanemaru being the same way but arguably worse. If Kanemaru had shittier offense he'd probably be just as bad as Marufuji. I've seen more than one tag that has KENTA, Marufuji and Kanemaru all in the same ring. They. Are. Not. Fun. To. Watch.




You know who's great? Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm sure there was a report somewhere that KENTA was more being used as a means of extending the teaching styles down in NXT. That seemingly goes against the hype WWE gave his contract signing but I suppose we will see soon enough. I'm not a fan of Steen, KENTA and Devitt but, with the quality of workers in WWE and amongst the trainers/alumni, I do see a bright future. I'd assume Devitt to be the guy they want but, if they turn down Steen's stupid comedy act and hone his talents, Kevin's may just be (re)gaining a fan one day in me.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Never liked KENTA. He can absolutely be a good wrestler, but it seems circumstantial. It almost always depends on who he's in the ring with. If he's with Takayama or SUWA, he'll be really good and work-from-the-bottom, if he's with Kobashi, he'll be a bit of a dick and be good at it. If he's with fucking shitty as fuck dogshit awful dogshit hogshit pigshit horseshit dogshit Marufuji or Kanemaru, then he'll suck just as much as they do and no sell fucking everything. The more famous KENTA/Marufuji (10/29/06) has them literally hitting German suplexes and getting up to hit more German suplexes. I am seriously not exaggerating. It's like German suplex, get up > German suplex, get up > German suplex, get up > German suplex, get up > German suplex, land on feet > German suplex. Do most people here not like Benoit/Angle from the Rumble any more? Neither do I but this is so much worse. I guess the first half is OK (sort of like Benoit/Angle as well). Well, my thoughts on the match a while back says the first half is OK. Whatever, 2012 me.
> 
> I remember KENTA/Kanemaru being the same way but arguably worse. If Kanemaru had shittier offense he'd probably be just as bad as Marufuji. I've seen more than one tag that has KENTA, Marufuji and Kanemaru all in the same ring. They. Are. Not. Fun. To. Watch.
> 
> You know who's great? Orlando Jordan.


The worst example I've seen of that type of match is that 1983 Dynamite Kid/Tiger Mask match that Meltzer gave 5-stars. I watched it as part of my on going project to see all of Meltzers 5 star matches and see how my ratings compare, and I was completely blown away by the no selling of moves. At one point they trade freaking Tombstone pile drivers on each other, which is so much worse than trading Germans. It'll be Tombstone>get up > other guy hits a Tombstone > get up > other guy hits a tombstone on the concrete. Just ludicrous. Those matches get filed along with the Funk/Foley Deathmatches in the all hype-little to no substance category. I know that may sound sacrilegious due to the amount of love I have for Foley and the Funker, but I've watched that King of the Deathmatch bout at Kawaski stadium and I could hardly get through it, not because of the violence but because it was almost silly and totally unlike the Funk and Foley I love. Maybe Rah or someone else who loves Deathmatches can tell me if I'm way off base in that assessment, but it just felt like the most prefabricated match I've ever seen.


Can't say I agree with you in your assessment of Jordan. The only singles match that I've seen of his that isn't bad is his GAB05' match with Benoit and even that one I'm not crazy about at all. He's not Butch Reed which is a comparison I've seen some people make.

I'm watching the Steamboat/Youngblood vs Slaughter/Kernoodle Final Battle Cage match right now. This thing never gets old:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xy...ughter-kernodle-vs-youngblood-steamboat_sport

Sgt. Slaughter has to be one of the most widely under appreciated wrestlers (not in here just in general). I haven't really seen anything from him I don't like, and his concussed/confused selling is on Funk levels of awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> You know who's great? Orlando Jordan.


No, you don't honestly think that Orlando Jordan is great. His one good match was one where he actively tried to make it bad, but with the power vested in Benoit, it somehow became good. I think Orlando Jordan is a perfect example of a guy who doesn't understand what wrestling is. Even more so than Muhammad Hassan.

I think this is the only place on the internet where we can comfortably say that KENTA is not that great. Well maybe PWO as well. But his best work definitely occurred in ROH or against fatties. And even then, he still screwed up in those situations, such as that terrible match I saw him have with Morishima and that match against Chris Hero where KENTA tried to ruin it by being KENTA. I don't know what it is about NOAH juniors, but a lot of the bigger name ones just really bother me so much. It's like they have no understanding of proportions. NXT isn't perfect, but hopefully it can alleviate the issues that guys like KENTA may have by toning things down.

LOL Marufuji. Do we also look down on Ricky Marvin?

EDIT: Ricky Steamboat was the worst guy in that cage match.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> No, you don't honestly think that Orlando Jordan is great. His one good match was one where he actively tried to make it bad, but with the power vested in Benoit, it somehow became good. I think Orlando Jordan is a perfect example of a guy who doesn't understand what wrestling is. Even more so than Muhammad Hassan.
> 
> I think this is the only place on the internet where we can comfortably say that KENTA is not that great. Well maybe PWO as well. But his best work definitely occurred in ROH or against fatties. And even then, he still screwed up in those situations, such as that terrible match I saw him have with Morishima and that match against Chris Hero where KENTA tried to ruin it by being KENTA. I don't know what it is about NOAH juniors, but a lot of the bigger name ones just really bother me so much. It's like they have no understanding of proportions. NXT isn't perfect, but hopefully it can alleviate the issues that guys like KENTA may have by toning things down.
> 
> ...


For the first 10 minutes he wasn't, Kernoodle definitely was, then over the last 2/3 of the match he kinda sorta yea was the worst person in that match, but even still-that's like saying Luc Longley was the worst starting player on the 95-96 Chicago Bulls, he was still part of an unstoppable 72 win unit. Ricky being the least standout of the 4 involved is the same thing, he's still one of the 4 participants in a nearly flawless match. Slaughter is just the man though, even when he's on the apron for the first 1/3 of the match he's still manages to be the most noteworthy guy.

One thing I will say after watching this bout back again, this match might contain the most blatantly obvious blading of any match ever. All 4 guys might as well have held up big signs that said "IM SLICING MY FOREHEAD NOW!" when they did it. I can't judge them harshly though, as fans weren't wise to the blade back then so they didn't need to worry about Bret Hart levels of subtlety while cutting.

I really do think this match is one of the top 5 best 2 on 2 tags in US wrestling history. The time just flies by for the last 20 or so minutes, and I always get giddy when watching it. The only thing that keeps me from saying it's a perfect match is the first portion before Sgt. Slaughter tags in are pretty dull, just Steamboat and Young Blood taking turns laying Kernoodle down in a headlock rest hold. I know it fits well into the story and structure, but even so, it's still pretty dull. Outside of that though, I don't have a single gripe about anything.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

Good solid match albeit a bit sloppy and didn't find a real flow for quite some time but some real slick counters and transitions. loved the story early on tying the promo in but cens diverted to a brawl to establish cesaro's wrestling skill. Cena actually minded his selling at times too. Nice finish imo. Not the amazing that the first encounter was but damn solid.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I've enjoyed Kanemaru more since returning to All Japan last year. Marufuji has gotten worse. I can handle him in tags when he's literally only given one portion to do some fancy junk in and that's it. And none of that includes terrible diagonal rope runs as a way to confuse his opponent. UGHHH. Still dunno how I liked Marufuji's brief stuff in New Japan. Eh, anyone can find a way to have something I like, I suppose. Except Daivari & Konnan.

I like Orlando Jordan.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tiger Mask/Dynamite Kid series isn't good. They have one or two fun matches (8/82 and the one in MSG, 1/82 I think), but yeah, it's a lot of no-selly not-good stuff. I think it's the 5-star Meltzer match where Dynamite yells "VICTORY!" only to put on a headlock purely so Tiger can suplex him, though I don;t remember thinking that match was bad. I'd have to revisit it, but.....I don't wanna. Either way thank God Sayama went to UWF. THOSE are some goddamn great matches.

The Orlando Jordan thing is a bit on an inside joke, I literally posted it because I felt like I needed to say something good about somebody after all of that negative shit. Though, I did really like his match with Orton in 2006 and thought Jordan was pretty good in it. Is Jordan actually bad? I haven't thought so, but he's not a guy I search out. Now, onto negative shit:


heyyyyyy, StuckInHell4Life. I don't mind what you think of my opinion nor do I care about the red rectangle of doom, but don't put words in my mouth and tell me I only have them to appear ''cool'' or contrarian. I don't even know how that would work. I kind of get this contrarian thing more than other kinds of insult and it's probably the only thing that actually bugs me. Do you - or anybody else - seriously think that I watch that rubbishy KENTA/Marufuji match or Benoit/Angle, have a GREAT time watching it, and then voice otherwise because I don't think it's ''cool'' to like it? Like I literally PRETEND not to like it to put on airs? I can't force myself to like something. I don't call you contrarian for not liking the Undertaker. Because I'm assuming you aren't. You just don't like him. And hahahahahaha you can't post here hahahahahahahahaha.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Brie Bella just escaped the grip of the same guy that ended the Summer of Punk.

Slaughter/Kernodle vs. Youngblood/Steamboat is great, but I wouldn't even put it in my top 100 tag team matches. Those first twenty minutes were not just dull. They were bad. Thank goodness that Slaughter put on a performance for the ages. That one moment where he pushes Kernodle out of the way to save him was excellent. But again, tag team wrestling is much better in my eyes than that. Like that Shield vs. Real Americans match just posted.

EDIT: Well now we know Yeah1993's weakness. Other than Chuck Taylor matches of course.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Got home in time to catch the last hour of RAW. Totally pissed I missed the 2nd installment of Cena/Cesaro. How was that? My girlfriend said "it went like 25 minutes" but I'm not sure I believe that. 

They did a fucking GREAT job at building the Orton/Reigns and Stephanie/Brie feuds tonight. I mean great. Jericho vs. Rollins was good stuff too. 

Did someone mention Jimmy Jacobs? Fun fact for ya. He had a really good series of matches with Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) throughout Dragon Gate USA. My favorite of which was a Chicago Street Fight at DGUSA Untouchable 2010. It'll be almost impossible to find them online unless you download a torrent of it somewhere, but if you come across them give em a go.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Raw :lmao

JIMMY JACOBS tho.


----------



## WrestlingOracle (Jul 6, 2013)

That was a quite solid at least entertaining RAW albeit with some flaws. Best Cena promo in years with content and delivery, nice Cena/cesaro match, Orton bringing callos ferocity showing shades of psycho Orton that I hope booking and O carries; another America/russia segment igniting the crowd;Jericho entertaining on the mike. Only complaints are a lack of NODII development in favor of this Dango running gag and I wasnt a fan of the last segment.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> *Got home in time to catch the last hour of RAW. Totally pissed I missed the 2nd installment of Cena/Cesaro. How was that? My girlfriend said "it went like 25 minutes" but I'm not sure I believe that. *
> 
> They did a fucking GREAT job at building the Orton/Reigns and Stephanie/Brie feuds tonight. I mean great. Jericho vs. Rollins was good stuff too.
> 
> Did someone mention Jimmy Jacobs? Fun fact for ya. He had a really good series of matches with Jon Moxley (Dean Ambrose) throughout Dragon Gate USA. My favorite of which was a Chicago Street Fight at DGUSA Untouchable 2010. It'll be almost impossible to find them online unless you download a torrent of it somewhere, but if you come across them give em a go.


It went about 14 minutes. Not as good as their first encounter earlier in the year, but it overcame a slow/sloppy start and finished very strong.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Thought Cena/Cesaro was a pretty nice, had an awkward patch but good stuff. lol Jericho doesnt have ANYTHING left, guy just needs to stop wrestling and this is coming from a good that has always found him good at best.

Cena/Lesnar and Rollins/Ambrose should be good, but everything else w/ the product currently seems so meh. Real dark times

Edit: Also lol @ giving Dolph the most empty wins I've ever seen


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Swagger & Rusev too, imo. And random Sheamus matches that matter. And Reigns' rise, obviously. Rest...nope. Why is Harper doing zilch?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Jericho/Rollins was good. Cena/Lesnar, Rollins/Ambrose, Swagger/Rusev, AJ/Paige, Jericho/Wyatt, Brie/Stephanie, Miz/Ziggler, and Reigns/Orton have all been built up nicely. But I'm probably not even gonna watch Summerslam anyways so meh. Other things to watch, such as PWG ELEVEN, 2006, and G-1 Climax.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Swagger & Rusev too, imo. And random Sheamus matches that matter. And Reigns' rise, obviously. Rest...nope. Why is Harper doing zilch?


You got me with 2/3, never really cared for Reigns on his own (never have, not one of these geeks nowadays jumping on the bandwagon)

Sheamus or Ambrose WOTY, its a coin flip

Edit: Harper is putting on DEM CLASSICS with the USO boys week in and out brother


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Not a coin flip. Mr. Ishii in the orient is wiping the floor with the competition. Well, except Ambrose. But 2014 is Ishii.

I do find it kinda funny how I am a huge supporter of Reigns and other folks who tend to follow whatever pushed star Vince gives reject Roman. I know that at some point, I'll dislike Reigns, but so far so good.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

C'mon fellas, it's CENA VS. LESNAR. Everyone needs to be watching Summerslam. PWG Eleven won't even be out by then and the G-1 will be over with. These days are also FAR from being dark days, we're just without Punk, Bryan, Barrett, and Henry at the moment. 

Summerslam build has been (Y) in my books and I'm not easy to please when it comes to building a PPV. Anyone else see the promo they've made for the show with Cena & Lesnar? Shit's good. 

Does anyone think it's possible we could get Orton & Rollins vs. Ambrose & Reigns at Summerslam? Tag team war!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> You got me with 2/3, never really cared for Reigns on his own (never have, not one of these geeks nowadays jumping on the bandwagon)
> 
> Sheamus or Ambrose WOTY, its a coin flip
> 
> Edit: Harper is putting on DEM CLASSICS with the USO boys week in and out brother


Reigns generates actual excitement from the audience & me alike, so I'm plenty into his work. Match vs Del Rio recently ruled too, so a good sign. The rise is fun.

Sheamus & Ambrose should have another match to determine the result. :mark:

Ah yes. How could I forget. Always keeping me in line, brother skins.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

@ The Reigns' praise, he's good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watched Ambrose vs Cesaro No DQ atm. Mess of fun. Deadlift superplex onto the sea of chairs was legit terrific. Probably the best looking spot of that kind since Homicide vs Cabana in '06. Not sure which I prefer in regards to the super good Reigns vs Del Rio match on the same show. Gonna watch that match again atm, so maybe I'll figure it out. Or not. Two different types of matches w/four awesome dudes. I don't need to pick. It was all rad.

Meanwhile RAW ends w/a jokefest. Feels like the brand split is back again w/the uneven quality 8*D


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Reigns had a really good match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He's able to do what Chris Jericho can't.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

^^ I thought his match with Del Rio from Smackdown was pretty good.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Steph/Brie > Summerslam tbh. :mark:


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

What.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Do we also look down on Ricky Marvin?


2013/2014 Ricky Marvin has the special treat of sticking out as a shit talent even in AAA.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ricky Marvin vs Roderick Strong last year. Thirteen minutes of not knowing what in the world Marvin was trying to do. b/c wrestling wasn't it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Did Ricky Marvin compete in the 94 J-Cup? If so I remember not minding that guy, even in NOAH.


EDIT - That was Ricky Fuji. I think I've only seen two Marvin matches and was even remembering the wrong wrestler by picture. Fuji probably spend 0 time in NOAH for all I know.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Tremendous Cal level confusion from Jheri atm.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Tell me they aren't the same guy. :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah, but it's close enough just by confusing two guys named Ricky & working in Japan. THEY'RE ALL THE SAME 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Racist :side:.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I remember Cubs and the Chilanga audience loving Marvin/Belial from last year. I thought it was lumbering and a concept that Pentagon/Arez did infinitely better this year. Belial isn't terrible at selling a beatdown and characterising a guy in a fight he could never win, but Marvin just isn't a believable beater. He was sans mask/get-up (he wrestles as Bengala in AAA) for some Monterrey show in a trios with Mr Nice and a Del Rio ripoff where he looked pretty bad. But it's easy to look bad with who he was working with so idk.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

With the way SummerSlam's shaping up (which is pretty well IMO), if Cesaro can get on the card, I'll be a happy camper.

No seriously, I'm sleeping outside of Staples Center the night before.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well SS is being built up well. Orton beating the crap out of Reigns was the segment needed for me to get a little more faith in the match itself, especially if we're going to see that same Randy. Jericho/Rollins and Cena/Cesaro were both good. Liked the opening segment and Jericho going 2001 on Steph's ass too. Nothing else was interest peaking, and some stuff like anytime Brie Bella opens her mouth and R-TRUTH beating Bo Dallas was an annoyance, but SummerSlam is shaping up nicely.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Been watching me old Orton matches lately 
Orton/Taker WM 21 -*** 3/4
Randy & Bob/Taker Casket Match - ****
Orton/Benoit SS '04 - **** 1/4 
Orton/Taker HIAC - **** 1/2 
Orton/Foley Backlash '04 - ****1/2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Del Rio vs. Ambrose tonight on Main Event. :dance


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Let me mark the fuck out for that :mark:

Where the hell was Ambrose during Raw though? They shouldn't be wasting any time in building up what's pretty much THE most anticipated match out of SS, even if it was in favor of building the Jericho/Wyatt rematch (sort-of).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Nobody told me that Road Warrior Animal turned heel in his final run with the WWE. What kind of garbage is this? At the very least, he should have thanked Matt Hardy for carrying him to a better tag match than anything he did with Hawk.

I used to love Ortons vs. Undertaker No Mercy 2005 (****1/2), but the most recent watch just did not click. Everything was done in slow motion and I couldn't really maintain my patience. I can't really name anything that I truly loved about the match, but it was still good. But ****1/2 means that there's something out there to love.

Bah, at least I like Taker/Angle 3/3/06 more than Cal.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

So with Vengeance 2005 finished, that's the 2005 PPV year done! And boy, what a HUGE step up from the previous 2 years. Nearly THIRTY points ahead of 2003 on the CAL SCALE, and over FORTY from 2004. Still lacking compared to 2000, 2001 and 2002, but hey, those were some golden years for PPV's.

So, PPV WOTY for 2005? Came down to two people, both of whom had a terrific series against each other than lasted the entire year; Undertaker and Randy Orton. Their WM, SS, Casket and HIAC matches were among the best of the best matches for the year, with 3 of them making the top 10! (WM match is just outside at #11). So who wins overall? Randy Orton! Not only does he have the Undertaker series, but he was also part of the epic Elimination Chamber match too, the sole survivor in the SVS Elimination Match, and had a GREAT match against HHH at the RR, one of the few good matches they had together. Really makes me miss the Orton of old, who actually went all out pretty much every time he stepped into the ring. These days we're lucky to see that Randy twice a year.

Best PPV of 2005? Going in to this year, I was expecting Vengeance to take gold place with ease. It's ALWAYS brought up as one of, if not the, best single brand PPV's when that discussion gets going. And I would agree with that. However I didn't enjoy anything on the show as much as I used to, and while it's still a good PPV, it's just not that great any more. The winner? WrestleMania with 19 points! One of the strongest first halves of a show ever, with the incredible MITB ladder match, Taker/Orton, and yes, even HBK/Angle! The rest of the show is hit and miss, but those 3 CLASSIC matches along with one or two other solid contests put that show just ahead of SummerSlam, the next in line.

2005 PPV’s on the CAL SCALE:

WrestleMania - 19
SummerSlam - 17.5
Royal Rumble - 17
The Great American Bash - 13.5
Vengeance - 12
Backlash - 11
No Mercy - 11
Unforgiven - 10.5
Armageddon - 10.5
Taboo Tuesday - 9.5
New Years Revolution - 9
Judgment Day - 6.5
Survivor Series - 3.5
No Way Out - 3
One Night Stand - 2

Total - 155.5


2005 PPV compared to 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004:

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss149/WrestlingElite/Capture_zps9ed6e4f6.png


And finally, all the PPV matches ranked in order from worst to best:



Spoiler: matches



Trish Stratus Vs Christy Hemme - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
The Big Show Vs Akebono - NO - -1 (WrestleMania)
Victoria Vs Christy Hemme NO - -1 (Vengeance)
Kurt Angle Vs Booker T - NO - -1 (Judgment Day)
Orlando Jordan Vs Heidenreich - -1 (Judgment Day)
Chris Benoit Vs Booker T - NO - -1 (Armageddon)
Booker T Vs Chris Benoit - NO - -1 (Survivor Series)
Eric Bischoff Vs Teddy Long - NO - -1 (Survivor Series)
Booker T Vs Heidenreich - NO - -1 (No Way Out)
Torrie Wilson & Victoria Vs Trish Stratus & Ashley - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Shelton Benjamin Vs Kerwin White - NO - -1 (Unforgiven)
Rob Conway & Tyson Tomko Vs Eugene & Jimmy Snuka - NO - -1 (Taboo Tuesday)
Mr Kennedy Vs Hardcore Holly - DUD - 0 (No Mercy)
John Bradshaw Layfield Vs John Cena - DUD - 0 (WrestleMania)
Paul London Vs Funaki Vs Shannon Moore Vs Akio Vs Spike Dudley Vs Chavo Guerrero - DUD - 0 (No Way Out)
Jerry Lawler Vs Muhammad Hassan - DUD - 0 (New years Revolution)
Juventud Guerrera Vs Kid Kash - DID - 0 (Armageddon)
Batista Vs JBL - 1/4* - 0 (The Great American Bash)
Simon Dean Vs Bobby Lashley - 1/4* - 0 (No Mercy)
Orlando Jordan Vs Chris Benoit - 1/4* - 0 (SummerSlam)
Mike Awesome Vs Masato Tanaka - 1/4* - 0 (One Night Stand)
John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - 1/4* - 0 (Survivor Series)
Rey Mysterio & Eddie Guerrero Vs The Basham Brothers - 1/4* - 0 (No Way Out)
The Big Show Vs Carlito - 1/2* - 0 (Judgment Day)
Paul London Vs Chavo Guerrero - 1/2* - 0 (Judgment Day)
Kane Vs Snitsky - 1/2* - 0 (New Years Revolution)
Juventud Guerrera Vs Nunzio - 1/2* - 0 (No Mercy)
Shelton Benjamin Vs Maven - * - 0 (New Years Revolution)
Trish Stratus Vs Mickie James Vs Victoria Vs Maria Vs Ashley Vs Candice Michelle - * - 0 (Taboo Tuesday)
Rhino Vs Sabu - * - 0 (One Night Stand)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - * - 0 (WrestleMania)
Chris Benoit Vs Eddie Guerrero - * - 0 (WrestleMania)
Psicosis Vs Rey Mysterio - * - 0 (One Night Stand)
Trish Stratus Vs Lita - * - 0 (New Years Revolution)
Carlito Vs Mankind - * - 0 (Taboo Tuesday)
Batista Vs The Coach - * - 0 (Taboo Tuesday)
Ric Flair Vs Carlito - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - * - 0 (Unforgiven)
Shawn Michaels & Hulk Hogan Vs Muhammad Hassan & Daivari - * - 0 (Backlash)
bWo Vs Mexicools - * - 0 (The Great American Bash)
Torrie Wilson Vs Melina - * - 0 (The Great American Bash)
The Undertaker Vs Muhammad Hassan - * - 0 (The Great American Bash)
Bobby Lashley Vs William Regal & Paul Burchill - *3/4 - 0.5 (Armageddon)
MNM Vs Hardcore Holly & Charlie Hass - ** - 0.5 (Judgment Day)
MNM Vs LOD & Christy Hemme - ** - 0.5 (No Mercy)
Chris Masters & Snitsky Vs Matt Hardy & Rey Mysterio - ** - 0.5 (Taboo Tuesday)
John Cena Vs Kurt Angle - ** - 0.5 - No Way Out)
The Dudley Boys Vs Tommy Dreamer & Sandman - ** - 0.5 (One Night Stand)
Lance Storm Vs Chris Jericho - ** - 0.5 (One Night Stand)
Trish Stratus Vs Melina - ** - 0.5 (Survivor Series)
Christian Vs Booker T - ** - 0.5 (The Great American Bash)
Chris Benoit Vs Christian Vs Booker T Vs Orlando Jordan - ** - 0.5 (No Mercy)
The Undertaker Vs Luther Reigns - ** - 0.5 (No Way Out)
The Big Show Vs Snitsky - ** - 0.5 (Unforgiven)
Batista Vs JBL - ** - 0.5 (SummerSlam)
MNM Vs Road Warrior Animal & Heidenreich - **1/2 - 1 (The Great American Bash)
Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs The Big Show & Kane - **1/2 - 1 (Taboo Tuesday)
Eugene Vs Kurt Angle - **1/2 - 1 (SummerSlam)
Lance Cade & Trevor Murdoch Vs The Hurricane & Rosey - **1/2 - 1 (Unforgiven)
JBL Vs Rey Mysterio - **1/2 - 1 (No Mercy)
Triple H Vs Batista - **1/2 - 1 (WrestleMania)
John Cena Vs Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - **1/2 - 1 (Taboo Tuesday)
The Heart Throbs Vs William Regal & Tajiri Vs Maven & Simon Dean Vs La Resistance Vs The Hurricane & Rosey - **3/4 - 1 (Backlash)
Tajiri Vs Little Guido Vs Super Crazy - **3/4 - 1 (One Night Stand)
Christian & Tyson Tomko Vs William Regal & Eugene - **3/4 - 1 (New Years Revolution)
Batista & Rey Mysterio Vs The Big Show & Kane - **3/4 - 1 (Armageddon)
JBL Vs Matt Hardy - **3/4 - 1 (Armageddon)
MNM Vs The Mexicools - *** - 2 (Armageddon)
John Cena Vs JBL - *** - 2 (Judgment Day)
Carlito Vs Shelton Benjamin - *** - 2 (Vengeance)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
John Cena Vs Chris Jericho - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
Kane Vs Viscera - *** - 2 (Backlash)
Matt Hardy Vs Edge - *** - 2 (SummerSlam)
Kane Vs Edge - ***1/4 - 2 (Vengeance)
Ric Flair Vs Triple H - ***1/4 - 2 (Survivor Series)
Edge Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/4 - 2 (Royal Rumble)
Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - ***1/4 - 2 (Vengeance)
John Cena Vs Chris Jericho Vs Christian - ***1/4 - 2 (Vengeance)
Batista Vs Triple H - ***1/4 - 2 (Backlash)
Batista Vs Eddie Guerrero - ***1/4 - 2 (No Mercy)
Orlando Jordan Vs Chris Benoit - ***1/2 - 3 (The Great American Bash)
JBL Vs The Big Show - ***1/2 - 3 (No Way Out)
Chris Jericho Vs Shelton Benjamin - ***1/2 - 3 (Backlash)
Chris Masters Vs Shawn Michaels - ***1/2 - 3 (Unforgiven)
Shawn Michaels Vs Hulk Hogan - ***1/2 - 3 (SummerSlam)
Batista, JBL, Randy Orton, Rey Mysterio & Bobby Lashley Vs Shawn Michaels, Kane, The Big Show, carlito & Chris Masters - ***1/2 - 3 (Survivor Series)
Chris Benoit Vs Edge - ***1/2 - 3 (Backlash)
The Undertaker Vs Heidenreich - ***1/2 - 3 (Royal Rumble)
JBL Vs Kurt Angle Vs The Big Show - ***3/4 - 4 (Royal Rumble)
30 Man Royal Rumble Match - ***3/4 - 4 (Royal Rumble)
Triple H Vs Randy Orton - ***3/4 - 4 (Royal Rumble)
Batista Vs Triple H - **** - 5 (Vengeance)
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/4 - 6 (WrestleMania)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - ****1/4 - 6 (Judgment Day)
Shawn Michaels Vs Kurt Angle - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania)
Chris Jericho Vs Christian Vs Chris Benoit Vs Kane Vs Shelton Benjamin Vs Edge - ****1/2 - 7 (WrestleMania)
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton & Bob Orton - ****1/2 - 7 (No Mercy)
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/2 - 7 (SummerSlam)
The Undertaker Vs Randy Orton - ****1/2 - 7 (Armageddon)
Triple H Vs Ric Flair - ****3/4 - 8 (Taboo Tuesday)
Matt Hardy Vs Edge - ****3/4 - 8 (Unforgiven)
Triple H Vs Batista Vs Randy Orton Vs Edge Vs Chris Jericho Vs Chris Benoit - ****3/4 - 8 (New Years Revolution)
Eddie Guerrero Vs Rey Mysterio - ***** - 9 (The Great American Bash)


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

One Night Stand worst show of the year? The Great American Bash in the top 5? BOOOO.

Other than that, the ranking is pretty much perfect right there. Agreed with the choice of Orton for best worker too, the guy was absolutely on fire that year. And even more so in 2006 really.

Speaking of 06, I suggest you start with No Way Out and end with No Mercy. NWO first to put off the misery regarding your thoughts on that show, and NM because it's the second best show behind WM


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

NWO is likely gonna do well overall since I adore Taker/Angle and Orton/Mysterio . Plus the rest of the card, from what I remember, is pretty harmless except Booker/Benoit that I'll be giving the big old NO to .


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

RATED-RKO1991 said:


> Been watching me old Orton matches lately
> Orton/Taker WM 21 -*** 3/4
> Randy & Bob/Taker Casket Match - ****
> *Orton/Benoit SS '04 - **** 1/4*
> ...


Easily two of the best matches of his career.

Liked Taker/Orton @ Wrestlemania 21 but I liked their confrontations at Summerslam/Casket Match/HIAC way more.

Watch Orton vs RVD and Orton/HBK in 03' if you're going that back, I'd also watch his match with Edge at Vengeance in 2004.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I still think 2011 is Orton's best in ring year. 2013 was really good too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> NWO is likely gonna do well overall since I adore Taker/Angle and Orton/Mysterio . Plus the rest of the card, from what I remember, is pretty harmless except Booker/Benoit that I'll be giving the big old NO to .


After the Armageddon/SVS scandal that last statement was more than expected, especially given how NWO is by far their worst PPV match in WWE really. 

But yeah, thank Christ regarding Orton/Rey and Angle/Taker, and iirc, the Cruiserweight Open and JBL/Lashley are good fun too, and even though it is formulaic, MNM/Matt & Tatanka is that good type of formulaic. Time to kill the doubters of NWO 2006, isn't it? 8*D

Other than that show let's see what you have to tackle:
New Year's Revolution: HHH/Show and Trish/Mickie are musts, everything else is meh'ish
Backlash: Great show with three awesome matches and a fun undercard too
Judgment Day: Everything in this card worked except Booker/Lashley
One Night Stand: You'll likely hate it even more than 05 bar the 6-person tag
Vengeance: Triple Threat and RVD/Edge are good finds, rest is hit or miss
The Great American Bash: Midcard was kinda bland but in turn the title matches and Batista/Kennedy were all good
SummerSlam: Reverse 2003 with SD (and ECW) card all bleh and Raw card all enjoyable
Unforgiven: Mostly depends on what you think of the TLC match but it does have a fun undercard
No Mercy: What hasn't been said about it already, top to bottom amazing
Cyber Sunday: Watch Rated RKO/DX and the Tornado Tag, try to go about 1 star or under on everything else
Survivor Series: Watch Benoit/Chavo and Taker/Kennedy, NO everything else
Armageddon: Undercard is spectacular, top two matches not so much but still a good show

ATF's guide right there


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I don't need no guide for 2006 . I've been watching and praising it before you were even a member of this place .

Little rusty with the second half of Raw that year, but oh god, SD. Delicious, sweet FINLAY filled Smackdown.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I know you have done that, I want you to take that guide as a reminder of some of the stuff. Since I thought you said you don't really remember the Raw shows after all. 

Anyways, thoughts on Elimination Chamber 2013? I only remember Shield/Justice League, don't have an idea of anything else really. I guess it was the show with the Rock/Punk rematch?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Last night's Raw has actually got me looking forward towards SS after being lukewarm towards the product for quite a while. Too bad I can't watch it live because I have a reexam in the next morning. 



funnyfaces1 said:


> I still think 2011 is Orton's best in ring year. 2013 was really good too.


2013? :lmao

Same ol' you playing up the PG years and downplaying the old ones. He had a decent 2013 but nowhere near his best years. How many really good matches did he have? 3 Bryan matches (June, Raw December and NoC), 2 Cody matches and the one with Goldust plus a couple of Shield tags. He already surpassed it in 2014 only four months into it.

2011 Orton has an argument but 2004-2006 are easily his best years. His second half of 2006 was less good because he was no longer on Smackdown, which meant he had to face weaker wrestlers like ol' man Hogan, Carlito and being stuck in tag team action with Edge (they were good, tho). But 04-05, he was on fire all year.

If I'd rank them all, it's 2004 > 2005 > 2006 > 2007 > 2011 > 2008 > 2014 > 2009 > 2013 > 2010 > 2012.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Orton's 2011 is pretty meh outside of the henry matches, mania w/ punk and that Rhodes one. None of the Christian ones hold up


Edit: Miz/Cesaro is really good


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Just watched *Cena vs. Punk from Summerslam 2011* for the first time since it aired. Takes a good while to get going but once it does it's pretty darn good. Love the middle sequence with the constant reversals and counters that flows into the submissions bit. My only problems are the slow start and the weird finish where they just hit each other for a while until Punk hits another GTS. Ya know, plus the whole foot on the ropes thing. I hate those. ****** for it. It's behind MITB 2011 and RAW 2013 in their series.

Would it be worth my time to watch all of Summerslam 2010 or just the main event?



ATF said:


> Anyways, thoughts on Elimination Chamber 2013? I only remember Shield/Justice League, don't have an idea of anything else really. I guess it was the show with the Rock/Punk rematch?


Like the show a good bit. Probably my 4th favorite PPV from last year.

- Del Rio vs. Show is good stuff as most of their matches were. The bucket botch at the end gets edited well on dvd so it doesn't even matter. ***
- Cesaro vs. Miz is extremely solid and worked well, but marred by a shitty finish. ** 1/2
- Shield vs. Super Friends is fantastic. ****
- Elimination Chamber match is fucking great once Henry enters and it never lets up with the final 3. Nothing much happens before that so it gets a *** 1/2 for me. 
- Ziggler vs. Kingston is really fun filler with some big bumps. (Y)
- Rock vs. Punk is pretty decent because Punk tries to win every way possible and you had all those ref bumps near the end for a dramatic finish. in the **3/4-*** range. 

Blu ray extra for that PPV is a a good match from Smackeown between Show & Jericho that's probably right on the same level as Show/Del Rio too.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, now I recall. Remember that Chamber match being Henry town. Tbh that's an underrated match, everything from Henry onwards was awesome. I know that with the talent in it the match should've delievered a hell of a lot more, but what you got was very good as well. And I also remember Cesaro/Miz surprising me, even though Cesaro was in there. Yeah, it's one of the best shows of the year easily, I'd have it only below SummerSlam, Money In The Bank and I guess Payback and WrestleMania (Payback is honestly very underrated imo, and I'm not even one of those who adores Punk/Jericho because FINISHERZ~ even though I did kinda like the match so yeah).

As for SummerSlam 2010, the 1st half of that PPV (Kofi/Ziggler, the GOAT match Alicia/Melina and Show/SES) is boring as all hell. But things get much better once the 2nd half kicks in, with Sheamus/Orton redeeming themselves from the Rumble disaster in a really good match, then Kane/Rey is damn good too and the Main Event is straight up frenetic despite failing in booking. So yeah, SS 2010's 2nd half is entirely recommended, Corey.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Choke2Death said:


> If I'd rank them all, it's 2004 > 2005 > 2006 > 2007 > 2011 > 2008 > 2014 > 2009 > 2013 > 2010 > 2012.


I think I might agree with this for Orton. Not sure what's so special about his 2014 though. Poor match with Cena at the Rumble, EC match wasn't all that great by EC standards, Mania main event was good, ER vs. The Shield was great and the PB one sucked. MITB match was pretty good but much like the chamber, not really by MITB standards, and the four-way title match at BG was garbage. TV wise he had a good bout with Bryan and that's all I can think of. I agree with it being better than 2013, but I'd still put 2014 behind 2009... and actually just because of his character work in 2009 (if we're taking that into account) I'd put 2009 above 2008.

Edit: Actually, I'd probably move 2011 up one or two slots, definitely above 2007 and maybe 2006. That Christian series was awesome, his NOC match with Henry was really good too. Had a pretty good match with Sheamus on SD if I recall (unless that's 2012 I'm thinking of).


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I like his 2009 too but a lot of his work was _too slow_ for me so I have a hard time getting into some of his matches that year. I did enjoy a great deal of his stuff with Cena and HHH, though. More than most others. It's just that not much really stands out and I struggle to think of any really good TV matches other than the LMS with Hunter.

2014 has been excellent for the most part I've felt. On PPV, I enjoyed RR with Cena, the chamber match is top 5 all time, WM main event was classic, ER with Shield was great and the rest have ranged from mediocre to okay. If he carries Reigns, it will be special, though. On TV, he had pretty good matches with Bryan, Cena, Cesaro (the whole gauntlet actually) plus some good tag matches here and there. Also enjoyed the street fight with Batista before WM for however long it lasted.

And in regards to the Christian matches from 2011, I think they hold up just fine. Watched the steel cage match again a couple of days ago and it's awesome as I remember it being.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Cage and 5/6/11 are the only ones I need to rewatch, the ppv match however dont hold up IMO

~~~~
Can anyone give me a list of notable raw/sd episodes from 2002 ? just episodes that are must watches, doesnt even having to do with the matches. Download a bunch of episodes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

October 7, 2002 is the RAW Roulette episode (the first one ever I believe). Always loved that gimmick. Show kicks off with a pretty good Steel Cage match between Booker T & Big Show and ends with TLC IV. Bra and panties match in there too.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Is Cena v. Jericho _Summerslam 2005_ any good?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

King Kai Guy said:


> Is Cena v. Jericho _Summerslam 2005_ any good?


I never liked it, **1/2 for it. Cena was really "green" in the ring back then, and Jericho in 2005 wasn't really that good. If you want to see a good match between the two of them, check out their Survivour Series 2008 bout


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

King Kai Guy said:


> Is Cena v. Jericho _Summerslam 2005_ any good?


I watched it about 2 weeks ago for the first time since 05. Gave it ***. Solid match, nothing more.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

King Kai Guy said:


> Is Cena v. Jericho _Summerslam 2005_ any good?


It's a very good sprint but I think some people tend to overrate it. I think I gave it *** 1/2 on the last watch. Reminds me a lot of Taker/Orton from WrestleMania, meaning there's not much structure and it ends up being a sprint/really long finishing stretch. Summerslam '05 MOTN is Taker/Orton.

---------------

Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio from SD 1/20/2006 is seriously great. Per usual, Henry sells well for his opponent and Rey gets destroyed. The finishing sequence is absolutely fantastic. No problem going *** 3/4 for it and it was so much fun. Probably one of my favorite Henry matches now. JBL vs. Lashley and Finlay vs. Matt Hardy from the same night are two very physical matches that get ruined by shitty endings.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Henry/Mysterio matches from early 2006 were pretty fun. On that very same show, Orton also carries Orlando Jordan to his only other match that didn't suck (the other obviously being Benoit).

Haven't seen Cena/Jericho from SummerSlam in a long ass time. Last I watched it, it was four star worthy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

As much as I love Undertaker vs Orton from SummerSlam '05, nothing trumps Hardy vs Edge. Cena vs Jericho from the event is good. Co-sign their classic from Survivor Series '08 being their best match. Brilliant stuff.

lol at ranking Orton's years when he stopped being someone to see in '08. After that it was Triple H feuds, too many Cena matches, world's worst babyface days & the good/great match here or there & none being vs Christian. _(ok, maybe one & that was from last year)_


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea that Orton/Christian match on raw last year where Christian gets a concussion (Y)


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Cena-Jericho is good IMO, mainly because of Jericho though, Cena was pretty bad in it.

Really enjoyed Cena-Cesaro last night.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Mark Henry vs. Rey Mysterio from SD 1/20/2006 is seriously great. Per usual, Henry sells well for his opponent and Rey gets destroyed. The finishing sequence is absolutely fantastic. No problem going *** 3/4 for it and it was so much fun. Probably one of my favorite Henry matches now.


YEP. The other Rey/Henrys rock as well. I think they had one the following week to that one, then one in April and another in May? Or only one somewhere in April or May? All worth watching, anyway, even if 1/20/06 is the best one. 2011 one is really fun as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Choke2Death said:


> 2013? :lmao
> 
> Same ol' you playing up the PG years and downplaying the old ones. He had a decent 2013 but nowhere near his best years. How many really good matches did he have? 3 Bryan matches (June, Raw December and NoC), 2 Cody matches and the one with Goldust plus a couple of Shield tags. He already surpassed it in 2014 only four months into it.


It is you that should be laughed at. Where did I say that 2013 was my #2 choice? You've seen me praise his 2004. I just wanted to point out a year that he was great in. You of all people should know that his 2013 was filled with great stuff. And the way I judge how good a wrestler was in a year isn't on how many classics they had, but on whether or not they were consistently good-great throughout the year.

Orton had good matches in 2013 with Bryan, Cody, Goldust, Shield, Punk, Fandango, Cesaro, Henry, Christian, RVD, and even Sandow. I know I'm forgetting more good singles matches. And he had more than just a couple good matches with The Shield. He had probably around 20. Just consistently good-great stuff.


Glad to see love for Rey/Henry. Good ol' 2006 Smackdown. :lol Shawn Michaels got drugged by a pregnant Stephanie McMahon and then he ends up having probably his best match so far of 2006 against Shane McMahon just by acting like he was drugged. On Smackdown, Angle and Taker had that glorious match together that was ended by Mark Henry. Are there any house show matches between the two out there?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It is you that should be laughed at. Where did I say that 2013 was my #2 choice? You've seen me praise his 2004. I just wanted to point out a year that he was great in. You of all people should know that his 2013 was filled with great stuff. And the way I judge how good a wrestler was in a year isn't on how many classics they had, but on whether or not they were consistently good-great throughout the year.
> 
> Orton had good matches in 2013 with Bryan, Cody, Goldust, Shield, Punk, Fandango, Cesaro, Henry, Christian, RVD, and even Sandow. I know I'm forgetting more good singles matches. And he had more than just a couple good matches with The Shield. He had probably around 20. Just consistently good-great stuff.


You may not have said it's his #2 but you specifically mentioned it to put it over big. Maybe I'm being paranoid about it because you have done it so many times in the past that I'm getting used to it even with your recent attitude change regarding the older years. But no biggie.

Either way, I will definitely agree that it was a good year, but he's had far better. It started off slow for him but picked up around April and kept going strong through the summer into the early part of his heel turn. But then his match quality dipped after Night of Champions and he only really picked it back up in December and carried on strong into 2014.

Which good match with Henry are you talkin' about btw? I only remember a 5 minute glorified squash before Elimination Chamber where they did a good job in their respective roles but I found the booking of it disgraceful. You forgot his match with Del Rio, though. The one where he caught a bad kick to the head. I enjoyed that one a lot.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked that squash match and the tag match with Sheamus against him and Big Show. I also liked this six-man tag between Orton, Sheamus, and Del Rio vs. Swagger, Henry, and Big Show. That Del Rio match was good too. As was his match with Big E on RAW. He carried Miz to a good match too on Smackdown once. Oh, and there was a good one against Ziggler. And a fun match against Kane where Bryan was guest ref. Oh, and how about the Smackdown match against Swagger (but not the putrid RAW one)? And finally, I think the match where Barrett beat Orton clean occurred in 2013. I don't see how that's not a really good year. Consistently brought it.

But this Cena/HHH vs. Orton/Mysterio/Angle match is actually pretty fun. Better than I remember it being. Awful ending though. Very deflating and made the Smackdown main eventers look second rate.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

2007 might be Orton's best year ever-PPV wise. After he wins the title, he had a consistent streak of good ppv matches and the beforehand pile are not bad enough to affect the overall quality.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I enjoyed that six man tag too. With Ziggler he had a good match in the final Smackdown of the year I think. The one where Ziggler has pink hair. Swagger SD match was solid but I agree the Raw one after ER was shit.

Also would never put over any Barrett/Orton matches with the exception of the No DQ from early 2012. Can't stand their chemistry.

In other news, I completed the mission of rewatching Orton's gauntlet this year by giving the Christian match another watch. It's probably their best match together since their 2011 series and solid. On par with the Raw Sheamus match for the weakest in the gauntlet, though. Also rewatched the Cena match and although I wont defend the rushed and flat out lazy finishing stretch with them hitting the RKO and AA right after one another, it's a very enjoyable match from bell to bell excluding that minor complaint.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well after he won the title he faced Jericho and HBK, not really the worst wrestlers on the planet . His match with HHH, the LMS one from No Mercy, was freaking awesome though


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry?






:done


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

There's no way that was a professional basketball in Henry's hands. Good lord. Haha. And his mom's last name is/was Mass? That's just too ironic.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That brief cutaway to the Henry line :lmao

the 90's were so bad, yet soooo good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> 2007 might be Orton's best year ever-PPV wise. After he wins the title, he had a consistent streak of good ppv matches and the beforehand pile are not bad enough to affect the overall quality.


Nah, I would say 2005 has that beat. Look at his score:

NYR: Elimination Chamber: ****3/4
RR: vs HHH: ***1/4
WM: vs Taker: ****1/4
SS: vs Taker: ****
NM: w/Bob vs Taker: ****
SVS: w/Team SD vs Team Raw: ****
AM: vs Taker: ****1/2

Granted, he wasn't there all year, but when only one of his matches was below **** and it was still damn good at that, you know you were doing something right. 2004 would come right after, a year that's brought down only by the Unforgiven debacle vs HHH.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I may have missed something, but did they completely not build up or even use Ambrose on Raw, at all? Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that they'll hold this off as a selling point for NoC?


Also, can someone explain why Brie Bella is manipulating Steph to give her job back? SHE QUIT.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Rah said:


> I may have missed something, but did they completely not build up or even use Ambrose on Raw, at all? Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that they'll hold this off as a selling point for NoC?
> 
> 
> Also, can someone explain why Brie Bella is manipulating Steph to give her job back? SHE QUIT.


I don't know why Ambrose wasn't on RAW, but at least they've made Smackdown into The Ambrose Show. Probably just a one time thing. Hopefully, because you can never have too much Ambrose.

I think the justification behind that was that Brie was going to get fired anyways, so she only quit because she didn't want the humiliation of getting fired.

Why do Kurt Angle and Rey Mysterio bring the worst out of each other?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Unless we talk about Bork Lazer, Mark Calloway or The Ringmaster, Kurt Angle usually brings out the worst out of anyone. 8*D

Which brings the question: since his WWE return is pretty much inevitable, is anyone from this board actually excited for it?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Orton on PPV ratings:

2005:
NYR: EC (****1/2)
RR: vs Hunter (***1/2)
WM: vs Taker (***3/4)
SS: vs Taker (***3/4)
NM: w/Bob vs Taker (****)
SVS: vs Team RAW (***1/4)
ARM: vs Taker (****1/4)

2007:
NYR: w/Edge vs DX (***3/4)
RR: Rumble (****)
WM: MITB (***1/4)
BL: Edge vs Cena vs HBK (****) (Granted I don't like it quite as much but universally speaking)
JD: vs HBK (***)
ONS: vs RVD (***)
SS: vs Cena (***1/2)
UF: vs Cena (**)
NM: vs Hunter 1 (***) vs Hunter 2 (****1/2)
CS: vs HBK (***1/4)
SVS: vs HBK (****1/4)
ARM: vs Jericho (***1/2)

That huge gap between WM and SS does some harm to 2005 Orton, therefore still siding with 2007 as his best (PPV wise ofc).


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You forgot about the Championship Open at Vengeance (vs Cena vs Foley vs Lashley vs Booker) and the Bullrope match with Dusty at The Great American Bash from 2007.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

.


> There will be almost 20 Blu-ray extras on WWE's "Sting – The Ultimate Collection" set that comes out in September. Below is the full Blu-ray extras listing, thanks to WrestlingDVDNews.com:
> – Blade Runners & Eddie Gilbert Interview
> UWF • April 7, 1986
> 
> ...


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

@ATF

How were they? Shit?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Rah said:


> I may have missed something, but did they completely not build up or even use Ambrose on Raw, at all? Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that they'll hold this off as a selling point for NoC?
> 
> Also, can someone explain why Brie Bella is manipulating Steph to give her job back? SHE QUIT.


All is forgiven with Ambrose because they centered Main Event & Smackdown around him this week. Steph let Brie have her job back so she didn't press charges against her for the slap. There's a little logic missing there as you mentioned, but hey, the storyline works and it was a good segment.



ATF said:


> Unless we talk about Bork Lazer, Mark Calloway or The Ringmaster, Kurt Angle usually brings out the worst out of anyone. 8*D
> 
> Which brings the question: since his WWE return is pretty much inevitable, is anyone from this board actually excited for it?


As speculation, not really. If it actually does occur, then sure. For a match or two here or there I can look forward to that. The company should tone him down a good bit so he doesn't kill himself in every match. Another installment of Angle vs. Lesnar or the forever Angle vs. Bryan dream match could work.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I only remember one being fun. The other I have no idea how it is. See for yourself:


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That Championship Open was terrible. Similar style of match as the Battleground main event, but even more boring.

Wrestlemania 22 MITB match. Super fun.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Lesnar/Angle from Summerslam 2003 is gold, I have it at ****1/4. Million times better than their hype-failure at WM19.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

So I finally returned to my 08 PPV project... 4 matches in, 4 DUDs. Brilliant. :lol


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Flux said:


> So I finally returned to my 08 PPV project... 4 matches in, 4 DUDs. Brilliant. :lol


Out of curiosity, what PPV are you watching?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Shane Douglas vs Marty Jannetty (ECW Return of the Funker 02.25.1995)



Really good match IMO.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton's best PPV year is definitely 2004. He worked more shows than 2005 and other than Unforgiven, every match was great.



#ROOT said:


> Out of curiosity, what PPV are you watching?


I'd assume Backlash. But there's no way in hell Batista vs HBK is a DUD. NO FUCKING WAY!


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I wouldn't have thought MVP/Hardy would be a DUD either. I mean, it's Matt freakin' Hardy. In 2008. Plus no way is Khali/Show a DUD either. That's a pretty darn fun match tbh .

Looked through wiki at listings for all the 08 PPV's and not a single one would have 4 straight DUD's.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Only PPV I can think of with that many duds was ONO: Knockouts Knockdown but that was TNA in 2013.

Genuinely interested in what PPV that is. Unless he did random matches, which makes more sense.

Sent from Verticalsports.com shit App


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

It is Backlash. Okay, maybe dud is the wrong word. I don't mean it as in DUD on the CAL SCALE. I mean it as in just really really shitty  Perhaps a better way of putting it would be 4 straight stinkers. I'm writing a review so I won't go in to detail, but I have my reasons.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

TNA Against All Odds 2010 is the all time DUD king. HORRIBLE

So I'm living like a bachelor for the next couple days. My girlfriend is at her parent's house to watch their dogs while they're away at Herhshey Park and I'm off work today and tomorrow. Plus she took our cat over there with her. What am I gonna do? Not throw a party or hang out with friends or any of that shit. I'm gonna watch a BAT SHIT TON of wrestling. :lol I love it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Backlash '08 is a bad show. MVP vs Hardy is a SUPER DUD. Lord I hate that match. MVPlol. Show vs Khali & Kane vs Chavo are the only matches I like. Undertaker was good on the night but Edge was so bad in that match. Ugh.

Didn't mention it b/c most of RAW was putrid but Cena vs Cesaro II was real good. idc if a tilt a whirl backbreaker didn't go as planned or if Cena's huricanrana was flubbed, everything else was neat. Cena's sloppy looking dive into Cesaro ruled b/c it explained so well how fed up Cena got by attempting to wrestle and knew he had to go into his normal bag of tricks to take him down. Callback spots from the Feb match were fine by me b/c they were early & how many fans in that arena remember those spots like myself or any of us in here? we're not the majority, ha. Still got a good pop & are still doubly impressive. Cesaro landing on h6is feet TWICE threw me for a loop. God damn. WWE's booking is so peculiar though. Cesaro is jobbing one month to elaborate his new downfall _(angle?)_ and then on the road to SummerSlam he looks like a threat to the WWE Champion. Even taking a super FU in the process to lose. Consistency plz. At least this ruled.

Rollins vs Jericho was actually pretty good too. I was pleased. Something good w/Jericho. Shame about it having zero heat pardon when the Walls got put on. Remember fans you like to boo Rollins? I guess they were dumbfounded after two hours something good happened.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Cena's huricanrana was flubbed


Again :lol

Moving onto WCW Hog Wild '96 now, battle of the bikes match, Giant/Hogan and a damn fine wrestling match somewhere in there, should be fun.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

More on Cesaro actually. But can't say that b/c Cena is involved.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Halfway through Summerslam 2010 and this shit sucks.  There was a backstage segment between Sheamus & Kane that's been better than all of the first 3 matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Handicap match was fun. No comment on the other two "matches". Kane vs Mysterio is quality & main event is good stuff, despite a rushed finish. 50/50 show. Mediocre, overall.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

*WWE United States Championship*
MVP (c) vs. Matt Hardy
_Welp. This was horrendous. It had several components that generally makes great matches, but in this contest it just didn't work out. MVP's workover was horrendously dull, Matt's comebacks were timed extremely oddly in that he didn't allow enough time for MVP to build heat but there weren't enough of them to warrant this a "back and forth match" and the finish was really, really lazy and deflating. All of this as well as several moments of sloppiness that take you even further out of the match, and you've got a very bad match indeed._

*ECW Championship*
_Kane (c) vs. Chavo Guerrero_
They tried, but I just couldn't get in to this at all. The leg work made sense despite being underwhelming and full of nothing. It was just oddly booked. Even a one legged Kane looks like he good destroy Chavo so it's really hard to root for him. Should have included more shenanigans from Chavo/Neeley or a sicker, sadistic side of Chavo.. Or atleast something. Give me a reason to care. The finish was also absolutely ridiculous. It wasn't offensive, but it was nowhere near what I call good.

Big Show vs. The Great Khali
_I've seen severla people call this "good for a Khali match", and whenever I see someone say something like that (often seen it referring to Divas matches) it just makes me think... The match still blows? Whether it's good for Khali/Divas/Midgets/Other, it's either good or it's bad. This was bad. Why did they try and make Big Show slamming Khali such a big thing when The Big Show is 7 ft, 450lb himself? Urgh. Mindnumbingly boring and nonsensical match that makes me rip my hair out._

*Special Guest Referee - Chris Jericho*
Batista vs. Shawn Michaels
_So the story of this match going in was all about Ric Flair blah blah blah. The package before highlighted so much hatred yet where was the hatred in this match? It was as if neither man had a problem with each other? So the actual story of this match was Shawn working his arm just because... Okay, I could get in to that. But not when a) Michael's whole workover of the arm is a poor-looking short arm scissors and b) Batista's selling of it is so spotty and hit and miss. Just because you hold you arm every once in a while doesn't mean your selling it, especially when you're still sidewalk slamming Michaels with it. You get the occasional bit of sloppiness also (the spear from Dave following HBKs kip up, amongst others) as well as Shawn's FUCKINGSTUPIDSHITTYWOATBASTARD punches and another extremely deflating finish that Batista's arm has NOTHING TO DO WITH. This is by far the best match of the night, but that doesn't make it good. Somebody explain why this is good? SOMEBODY?_

Didn't watch the divas match.

*World Heavyweight Championship*
The Undertaker (c) vs. Edge
_Finally, something decent. What seperates this from Batista/Shawn is that not only is Edge's attack on the targeted body part varied, structured and somewhat interesting, but The Undertaker sells it in a variety of ways to make you believe it's actually hurting him. Facial expressions, clutching the back, vocally selling it etc. However, the match is by no means perfect. It somehow felt really rushed but also dragged at the same time, and that's not a good vibe to have to your match. I did really like the finishing stretch though, with The Last Ride -> Sunset Flip -> Hell's Gate. I think there was very little signature offense from either man that hurt the match, causing the match as a whole to feel like it had no structure to it. Not a bad a effort, but nowhere near the level of their WM encounter._

*WWE Championship*
Randy Orton vs. Triple H vs. JBL vs. John Cena
_RUSHJOB. Why did they bother having JBL and Cena in there if they pretty much did nothing worth noting in the match? Cena was out of the ring for about 70% of the time he was in the match and JBL was just there... He did a couple of elbow drops, laughed at Randy when Cena had him in the FU then tapped out to Cena. Right. So they quickly get rid of Cena and Jibbles and then we're left with Orton and The Game... We have twqenty minutes of back and forth, WWE MainEvent style bullshit before we transition in to the WWE Main Event Finishing stretch style bullshit of countering finishers. Just nonsensical, ass backwards booking that leads to an extremely boring, typical main event match._

The review is rushed, yes. But I'm tired. Hated the whole event, pretty much. Edge/Taker was decent at best but probably wouldn't even make a top 20 of the year. 

To sum the show up: If you're going to centre your match around a targeted body part - Make the workover interesting, sell it properly, don't rush the finishes of the match and book your matches so that they make sense.

FWIW, here's my top 10 matches of the year so far.



Spoiler: TOP10



1. Edge vs. The Undertaker - **** 1/2
2. JBL vs. Finlay - Wrestlemania - **** 1/4
3. Randy Orton vs. John Cena - No Way Out - **** 1/4
4. Raw Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - ****
5. Floyd Mayweather vs. Big Show - Wrestlemania - ****
6. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio - Royal Rumble - *** 3/4
7. Smackdown Elimination Chamber - No Way Out - *** 3/4
8. 
9.
10.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Now that's what I call a trashjob. :lol Wonder what you'll think of Judgment Day overall - it does have the best HBK/Jericho of 2008 and iirc Taker/Edge III which I don't remember all that well really but recall being good.

Though I did think Taker/Edge II was better than what you give it credit for, if simply because Taker's performance was awesome from bell to bell.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I still like Undertaker praise regardless if the match was no good. His April '08 was immense. The legend owning it up.

After I saw Backlash '08 for the first time, I knew I was wise to never buy it. That main event is cancer. And people think the four way that recently happened was bad. Please.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Some quick Summerslam 2010 ratings, cause it's not worth a full review:

Ziggler vs. Kofi - ** (this finish on PPV? poor guys)
Melina vs. Fox - * (rushed finish. who cares?)
Big Show vs. Straight Edge Society - ** (harmless, but why is this on ppv again?)
Orton vs. Sheamus - ** 1/4 (did nothing for me. Orton's facials :lol why is this finish on ppv again? Brogue Kick was sick as fuck though)
Kane vs. Mysterio - *** 1/4 (good match, good postmatch happenings. (Y) MOTN)
WWE vs. Nexus - *** 1/4 (fine as a whole I guess but some of those eliminations were awful and I hated the finish. At least Bryan got over)

Probably the weakest Summerslam I've ever seen from start to finish.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well you were a lot more generous than your words sounded. Huh.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Well you were a lot more generous than your words sounded. Huh.


Haha. I tend not to give matches less than ** unless I just hated them or they were worthless. ** is just the basic go-to rating for me with weak matches. Orton/Sheamus at least had a sick ass brogue kick and heat towards the end. The elimination match started out fantastic and was going well in the first several minutes. The longer the match went, the more steam they seemed to lose. I liked everything Bryan did, Miz screwing him, and was impressed with Gabriel. The finish however was pretty bad. A pinfall after a missed 450? C'mon.

Kane vs. Rey was nothing but positive though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The pitfalls of elimination matches in various promotions. Every other match on the calender year these moves never win matches. Then a elimination match is booked & all of a sudden a punch or a DDT can defeat anybody. Comical observations.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shocked you liked Rollins/Y2J, felt flat and I just gave up on it. Agree on Cesaro/Cena II being pretty good, some awkardness in the opening minutes but it didn't deter the match quality at all for me


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If the work in the match is still good, I can normally enjoy it even if has no heat. I mean, that really sucks. But it happens. Always say the best example of this is Generico vs Callihan two out of three falls. Terrible crowd, but phenomenal match.

Watching last week's NXT and Summer Rae vs Charlotte is one that had no heat behind it & was really bad to boot. Now that's brutal. Charlotte looked so mad after it was over, ha.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> The pitfalls of elimination matches in various promotions. Every other match on the calender year these moves never win matches. Then a elimination match is booked & all of a sudden a punch or a DDT can defeat anybody. Comical observations.



That's just the dirt worst and I absolutely hate it. I can somewhat buy it when it happens in an ironman match because atleast you can justify it by saying the guy was already completely worn down so a DDT was all that it took to gain a fall, but in elimination matches it makes ZERO sense. Just none whatsoever.

I'm having trouble finding most of those Jacobs matches you recommended to me . I gotta get on one of those torrent sites one of these days.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

True. Rock's DDT on Triple H in their Iron Man comes to mind. The elimination bit is just a sign of the goofy side wrestling provides. Logic, it isn't always there.

Figured it wouldn't be easy. Some of which I only know about from owning the full shows. But its a list worth seeking. Jacobs set on ROH.com/Higspots is worthwhile. Something to possibly look into.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

I do notice sig moves that never win a match can win in those types of matches. I can't stand that really.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Oh man, if Wrestlemania 22 didn't have two awful world title matches, it could have been a top three Mania. Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon had no right to be as fun as it was. And Benoit/JBL deserved more time. Do they have a rematch?


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> *Oh man, if Wrestlemania 22 didn't have two awful world title matches,* it could have been a top three Mania. Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon had no right to be as fun as it was. And Benoit/JBL deserved more time. Do they have a rematch?


Trips/Cena is a classic and everyone knows it.

Regarding Cena/Cesaro from Monday, I enjoyed it, but it was very obvious that it was geared towards the "You can't wrestle" stuff. I wouldn't mind seeing Cena break out more of the moves that he did in that match. Very fun encounter, though I thought it could have been a bit cleaner. Cesaro's suplex from the outside in with him on the turnbuckle is awesome. I love how the dude gets no love from the booking but can come out and tear the house down.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot to mention HE BROUGHT THE SWING BACK. lolWWE. Put him w/Heyman, he's neutered. Leaves Heyman & already working really good matches again. 

FF Benoit vs JBL have I think two more matches post-WM. At least one. And it is inside of a Steel Cage.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Helmsley said:


> Trips/Cena is a classic and everyone knows it.
> 
> .


Not a fan of that match at all tbh. I really thought I'd like it going in, and the hot crowd kept it from being flat out bad, but it's not a match I'd ever consider rewatching just for fun.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Forgot to mention HE BROUGHT THE SWING BACK. lolWWE. Put him w/Heyman, he's neutered. Leaves Heyman & already working really good matches again.
> 
> FF Benoit vs JBL have I think two more matches post-WM. At least one. And it is inside of a Steel Cage.


Big supporter of the Benoit/JBL cage match. Tons of fun and is super super physical like you'd expect a match with those two guys to be.

Just watched Ambrose/ADR from Main Event. Meh. Good, not bad, but not REALLY good or anything and for the most part never really gets out of 2nd gear. To be honest, the lack of physicality kept me from being more into it. You could see through a lot of their work and they were taking it really easy with the bumps and such. Then again, it's not like I should expect guys to go full bore on Main Event. Still super pumped for the Ambrose/Rollins collision at SS, they are building this thing just right and I can't wait to see them clash.


----------



## Waffelz (Feb 12, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Backlash '08 is a bad show. MVP vs Hardy is a SUPER DUD. Lord I hate that match. MVPlol. Show vs Khali & Kane vs Chavo are the only matches I like. Undertaker was good on the night but Edge was so bad in that match. Ugh.
> 
> Didn't mention it b/c most of RAW was putrid but Cena vs Cesaro II was real good. idc if a tilt a whirl backbreaker didn't go as planned or if Cena's huricanrana was flubbed, everything else was neat. Cena's sloppy looking dive into Cesaro ruled b/c it explained so well how fed up Cena got by attempting to wrestle and knew he had to go into his normal bag of tricks to take him down. Callback spots from the Feb match were fine by me b/c they were early & how many fans in that arena remember those spots like myself or any of us in here? we're not the majority, ha. Still got a good pop & are still doubly impressive. Cesaro landing on h6is feet TWICE threw me for a loop. God damn. WWE's booking is so peculiar though. Cesaro is jobbing one month to elaborate his new downfall _(angle?)_ and then on the road to SummerSlam he looks like a threat to the WWE Champion. Even taking a super FU in the process to lose. Consistency plz. At least this ruled.
> 
> Rollins vs Jericho was actually pretty good too. I was pleased. Something good w/Jericho. Shame about it having zero heat pardon when the Walls got put on. Remember fans you like to boo Rollins? I guess they were dumbfounded after two hours something good happened.


Was my favourite RAW in ages. :lol 

Guess you're in the wrestling > promos camp.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> And Benoit/JBL deserved more time. Do they have a rematch?


Yeah, the cage match two weeks after.

Don't think either of the World Title matches were awful. I've always enjoyed HHH/Cena and the triple threat could've gotten more time and been better structured, but I can enjoy it for what it is. A sub-10 minute sprint of non-stop action.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Waffelz said:


> Was my favourite RAW in ages. :lol
> 
> Guess you're in the wrestling > promos camp.


I'm in the camp of whatever is engaging. I love a good promo when it enthralls me. Cena & Heyman did that well on Monday. Nobody else did, but I'm used to it.

-----------

ah right. Forgot about Ambrose vs Del Rio. Looking forward to it.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

So I wanted to watch Cena/Punk from Raw last year to see if it holds up and I finally did yesterday. It most certainly holds up. Even knowing the result and the match being over a year old, I still watched it and wondered how the fuck they kicked out at some points. 

The final Punk/Cena match was a damn TV classic, that's for sure.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

They're best match IMO. They're NOC and MITB match are neck and neck for 2nd best.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NOC match is so excellent. Other two get a ton of praise so I don't need to add anything else. But NOC, wow. Top notch. Those two know how to do work.


----------



## Waffelz (Feb 12, 2013)

Their matches really are quality. RAW one is probably my favourite from an in ring point of view with NOC just behind it.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

The Raw match against Cena and the Mania match against Taker are two of my favorite heel Punk performances. Was almost flawless in both.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mr. Cody you also like the Jericho/Stephanie/HHH promo. I don't know why you forgot that. Eh, bad memory gets us all.

I used to love both big Cena/HHH matches (NoC 08 at ****1/4, WM 22 at ****). Haven't seen NoC 08 in a year, but it did fall off quite a bit as most of the match before the finishing stretch was boring. But WM 22. I can only name two good things that happened in that match. Two. HHH's DX chop and Cena selling the after effects of hitting a clothesline on HHH. Nothing significant happened other than that. It wasn't even fun. It just felt so dull, and HHH looked so weak. I think even Sandow in the MITB cash-in last year looked stronger than HHH. And the STFU at the end. Most anti-climatic finish imaginable.

But hey. Umaga debuted.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

RAVEN said:


> The Raw match against Cena and the Mania match against Taker are two of my favorite heel Punk performances. Was almost flawless in both.


2013 was a great year for Punk in terms of in-ring work up to Summerslam, imo. It started to go downhill after that and he was getting sloppy after that. He had fantastic matches with Jericho, Taker, Cena, Lesnar, etc. that were all **** or more, IMO. The guy was just on fire. It's a shame it started to go downhill afterwards, but that's what happens when you just don't have the passion to do it anymore.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

RatedR10 said:


> *2013 was a great year for Punk in terms of in-ring work up to Summerslam, imo. It started to go downhill after that and he was getting sloppy after that. He had fantastic matches with Jericho, Taker, Cena, Lesnar, etc. that were all **** or more, IMO.* The guy was just on fire. It's a shame it started to go downhill afterwards, but that's what happens when you just don't have the passion to do it anymore.


Royal Rumble and Elimination Chamber screwed up a perfect half-way report card .


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The scary part is that the second half of 2013 that consisted of an unmotivated Punk was still better than most wrestler's career-best material.

Londrick vs. MNM (4/7/06). God damn! People remember this Smackdown for the Orton/Mysterio match (as they should), but this match was nearly as good. The satisfaction of London getting tagged in as well as the upset victory. Oh man. And that nearfall when London rolls Mercury up after Kendrick breaks up the Snapshot was so convincing. Tag team wrestling :lenny

:lmao Brent Albright actually moved up from OVW? What the hell kind of name is Gunner Scott? LOL at Benoit clotheslining Simon Dean off of a segway.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Cena/HHH is hit or miss. Their 2nd (NOC) and 4th (2nd Raw match in 2009) are great, Mania match is good but bleh for a Mania main event, and the rest are garbage.

Punk's latter 2013 is underrated. Most of the matches he had that didn't have to do with Ryback or Axel were at least decent, if not normally good. Stuff he did with The Shield was all good-great (good match with Rollins, good-great matches with Ambrose, 3-on-1 was great... and that garbage match against Reigns was 2014 so it doesn't count  ), SVS tag match with Bryan against the Wyatts was great, had decent-good TV matches with Big E (which is pretty amazing and were Big E's best matches imo until the Rusev matches), Fandango, Harper, and Orton. Great match with Jericho at PB as well (fuck the haters), and of course there's the all-time classic with Lesnar. Only bad matches are, as I said, the ones with Ryback and Axel, the Reigns match in 2014 if you count 2014... I suppose on that same note his Rumble performance wasn't awe inspiring itself, and I think I remember him having an awful match with Darren Young shortly after he returned? Even unmotivated, sick, injured, whatever, he was still putting in quality work in the ring pretty consistently. On the mic he held up through the Heyman feud, even if after/towards the end of that he started pandering a bit too much and his promos were declining, all around I'd say he remained consistently good.


----------



## H (Aug 15, 2011)

The thing about Punk/Cena (Raw) that I enjoy is that it's not even about Punk being a bitch heel, it's about getting to the title match at Wrestlemania. Might even be my favorite match between the two. Night of Champions is awesome, and it features Punk's first title defense in his heel run. (Full blown heel, of course) 

Also, Cena/Trips on Raw in 2009 is worthless. Three fucking pedigrees :lmao


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punk vs Ambrose x2 & w/Danielson vs Harper & Rowan proves his career following SummerSlam wasn't a bust. He was just involved in random or bad programs, unfortunately.

Poor Cena. Always had terrible matches when saddled w/Triple H.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I liked Hunter/Cena from RAW 2009, gave it ***1/4 recalling. As for their PPV matches, NOC is meh now as I watched it recently and it was very tedious and the work was dull, WM22 though is fun and not just for the crowd, Hunter being an indulgent bastard and Cena denying the crowd reception and attempting to work as the face is a glorious sight. Go ***3/4 on it, still not MOTN though, that goes to HBK/Vince. 

Watched Taker/Hunter from an SD sometime in 2008, not too shabby, didn't work in the light of the recent WM matches but rather carries more resemblance to the WM17 brawl. **3/4-***


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Taker vs Trips is nothing more than a finisher fest w/a really poor first half, but the latter half of it I don't hate or anything. Made a completely random exhibition match feel big. So that was cool. Unfortunately another fun Undertaker showing that doesn't extend past his work being on the positive & the opponent not so much. But its Taker, so I can tolerate.

idk if you're watching '08 stuff in abundance but if so, watch more from Taker on team blue. Plenty of better overall matches. His squash of Zack Ryder is a blast. For a random gem. Now I'm wanting to see BOD vs Morrison & Miz from ECW.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Taker vs Trips is nothing more than a finisher fest w/a really poor first half, but the latter half of it I don't hate or anything. Made a completely random exhibition match feel big. So that was cool. Unfortunately another fun Undertaker showing that doesn't extend past his work being on the positive & the opponent not so much. But its Taker, so I can tolerate.
> 
> idk if you're watching '08 stuff in abundance but if so, watch more from Taker on team blue. Plenty of better overall matches. His squash of Zack Ryder is a blast. For a random gem. Now I'm wanting to see *BOD vs Morrison & Miz from ECW*.


This actually happened? 

:sodone


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Only watched the more well known ones in Taker vs Kane, Festus, Batista and Show Cage on SD. Reading up on profightdp, he had a few matches against Big Daddy V (RIP), Jeff Hardy (cool, never heard of this) plus Chavo and Shelton are in there too. They be good?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Flux said:


> This actually happened?
> 
> :sodone







Mike Adamle: _"The Undertaker getting busy"_



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Only watched the more well known ones in Taker vs Kane, Festus, Batista and Show Cage on SD. Reading up on profightdp, he had a few matches against Big Daddy V (RIP), Jeff Hardy (cool, never heard of this) plus Chavo and Shelton are in there too. They be good?


One of the BDV is better than the other, but they're both fun. Hardy match is real good & I always liked all the matches vs Shelton. Dream match at that time. Chavo had about two, one being a casket match, but they're the rare ones I can't quite recall off the top of my head.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

One more thing @ Hayley, did you happen to like this Taker/Punk match?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Of course. I was a fan of all their TV matches. Well, even toss in their rushed HIAC b/c it was still Punk vs Undertaker in HIAC. idc how long it went, I got to see something I never thought I would.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Even if it brought forth months of misery for funnyfaces?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I still need to watch the '09 Punk/Taker stuff.  SD, HIAC and another one, Bragging Rights was it?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

09 Punk/Taker stuff is seriously underrated, I think a lot of times (outside this thread) because Taker won the title. But for the time their PPV matches get, they did really fucking good, and the SD match was awesome. None as good as the epic SD '10 match or their WM match, but still all really good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Punk/Taker SD match(s) are on that Best Of SD/Raw set, aren't they?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Has anyone seen the casket match from the house show in 2009? I had a link to it for years and always meant to watch it, but being a poster on a wrestling forum means I had to procrastinate it off for several years. It's in the rulebook. I hope it's still on youtube, IIRC it was in four parts.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Has anyone seen the casket match from the house show in 2009? I had a link to it for years and always meant to watch it, but being a poster on a wrestling forum means I had to procrastinate it off for several years. It's in the rulebook. I hope it's still on youtube, IIRC it was in four parts.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Not as good as the 2 minute one I got to see live 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Buddy of mine told me he saw a two minute Undertaker vs Big Show dark casket match too. :lmao

no doubt better than Survivor Series.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Probably was tbh :lmao.

Only reason the one I saw was so short is cos Undertaker had just wrestled Jericho for 15 minutes and was beat down by Jericho and Show before Kane showed up to help clear the ring. And 09 Undertaker was only like 60% healthy for most of that run too .

Downloading the WWF 1992 Timeline with Bret :mark:. Should be interesting to hear him praise himself for a couple of hours while also shitting on Flair and Shawn .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The first ever Taker vs Jericho match, eh? That & Christian vs Regal in the same tapings. Lucky cat. You won regardless b/c it wasn't a RAW. _(unless it was all taped together. you probably would have been the loudest guy for when Ricky Hatton knocked out Chavo. why do I remember this?)_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Aye, Christian/Regal and Undertaker/Jericho all in the same night . Raw was the night before... and I was there too. Chavo getting knocked out was the GREATEST THING EVER .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Not bad for a tour that only happens twice a year.

Drawing a blank on what else RAW had to offer. Sheamus squashed a jobber. And I think Triple H worked Big Show in some capacity. If I'm correct that the divas match involved Alicia Fox & Kelly then I officially need to dial the fact checking down. 8*D


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Shows were:

Raw

Kelly Kelly Vs Alicia Fox
Sheamus Vs David Deville
Evan Bourne Vs Jack Swagger
Mark Henry Vs Randy Orton
Ricky Hatton Vs Chavo Guerrero
DX Vs JeriShow

ECW

Paul Burchill Vs Goldust
Vance Archer Vs Jason Blackwell
Christian Vs William Regal

Superstars

Matt Hardy Vs David Hart Smith
Zack Ryder Vs Shelton Benjamin
MVP Vs Ted DiBiase

Smackdown

CM Punk Vs R-Truth
Mickie James Vs Natalya
Drew McIntyre Vs Finlay
John Morrison Vs Dolph Ziggler
Beth Phoenix Vs Lisa Taylor
The Undertaker Vs Chris Jericho


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

got the divas match right :tucky

McIntyre vs Finlay. :banderas

didn't even get any time for both matches yet still beat the piss out of each other.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

McIntyre/Finlay absolutely KILLED the crowd. The finish was DQ or whatever with the shillelagh... then they waited about 20 minutes with nothing happening... AND RE-SHOT THE FUCKING FINISH. Had they not left us for 20 minutes with nothing to watch or whatever it would have been much better.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Bret Hart timeline. :mark: Im on it.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Even if it brought fourth months of misery for funnyfaces?


That title reign was four months? Felt like an eternity. What hurt me most wasn't that Punk lost it though. It was the sight of a childhood hero in Undertaker rolling around in shit and putting on one bad performance after another. And it also didn't help that Jeff Hardy left and got arrested, Mysterio got suspended, Edge got injured, and Jericho went to RAW. I always felt that the guy that should have gotten the title from Punk was Morrison, who had a ton of momentum at the time. The chemistry that those two had was impeccable and Punk can carry a feud with terrible mic workers. But the long-term plan was always to have Jericho and Edge feud at Mania.

Was the first half of 2007 any good? I recall a few people talking about how January-April was actually not bad at all. And I never got to see how Undertaker/Batista transpired on television. Plus I wanna see some good Khali matches.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

SD wise, 07 started off strong thanks to the awesome 06. After WM, everyone got injured and that screwed up plans.

Raw 07... had it moments from what I remembered, but I always tend to remember SD more than Raw these days .


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> That title reign was four months? Felt like an eternity. What hurt me most wasn't that Punk lost it though. It was the sight of a childhood hero in Undertaker rolling around in shit and putting on one bad performance after another. And it also didn't help that Jeff Hardy left and got arrested, Mysterio got suspended, Edge got injured, and Jericho went to RAW. I always felt that the guy that should have gotten the title from Punk was Morrison, who had a ton of momentum at the time. The chemistry that those two had was impeccable and Punk can carry a feud with terrible mic workers. But the long-term plan was always to have Jericho and Edge feud at Mania.


Wow, I don't know how to spell, meant forth p). I wouldn't say Punk/Morrison had impeccable chemistry unless impeccable means solid or just slightly great, impeccable means fantastic, amazing, spectacular, magnificent etc. right?

Edge/Jericho don't mix whatsoever. Breaking Point 2009 TT between Taker, Batista, Mysterio and Punk is super-duper fun.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Was the first half of 2007 any good? I recall a few people talking about how January-April was actually not bad at all. And I never got to see how Undertaker/Batista transpired on television. Plus I wanna see some good Khali matches.


I'm not one who has watched entire seasons of RAW/SD, but I recall plenty of good stuff in the first 4 months of 2007. Rated RKO tags, MNM and the Hardys, Edge vs. Orton and HBK/Cena in April, and... yeah that's all I can remember.  I think there's an HBK/Edge Street Fight in there in Janaury.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Wow, I don't know how to spell, meant forth p). I wouldn't say Punk/Morrison had impeccable chemistry unless impeccable means solid or just slightly great, impeccable means fantastic, amazing, spectacular, magnificent etc. right?
> 
> Edge/Jericho don't mix whatsoever. *Breaking Point 2009 TT between Taker, Batista, Mysterio and Punk *is super-duper fun.


Was that Bragging Rights? Or Fatal 4-Way?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched Raw. Cesaro/Cena was good, had to smile at the Cesaro line "Muscle bound walking billboard who can't wrestle". Cena then starts to wrestle in the match, before reverting to the same shit, i did like the superplex and i guess the AA off the ropes was alright too.

No fucker noticed, but Cena did allude to the fact he beat Lesnar in 2012, of course everyone else there forgot.

Think of this though, say if Brock beats Cena at SS, but loses at NOC. :argh:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm still not convinced Brock will be around come Night of Champions, which is why this is match is so UNPREDICTABLE.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Well I read that Lesnar has had some dates added to his schedule, including the Raw after SS and the Raw before NOC.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Just give Brock the title for the rest of the year at least FFS, because he shouldn't lost at SS or NOC. Unless they really don't care about the streak, eh Vince.

Think ill finally dig out and watch Hog Wild in a bit.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

If WWE had a hot angle that carried them through the fall, they could have Brock win the title and only appear on two shows a month with the title.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Don't give a shit about all this part-timer BS. Give Brock the title and let him keep it until WM. It's not like there any better options in the full-time roster. Cena and Orton need a break from being champion (although I could live with Orton being champion for another decade ) and Bryan is injured. Anyone else is not ready for being World Champion or is a shit option.

Just let Brock hold the title and have him appear once per month with a PPV match every other show.

SS: vs Cena
NOC: vs Cena (inside a cage?)
SVS: vs Orton
RR: vs Sheamus
EC: vs Bryan (if he's ready, if not then idk)
WM: vs Reigns

That way he'll skip HIAC, TLC and possibly EC (all the B-shows basically). They can also tape some via satellite footage every other week so that it doesn't feel like a champion is nonexistent.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Lazyking said:


> If WWE had a hot angle that carried them through the fall, they could have Brock win the title and only appear on two shows a month with the title.


Ambrose and Rollins should carry them through HiaC, easily. Build the entire show around those two.

WWE really needs some more top level heels. They have Cena, Reigns, Ambrose, and DB when he returns as the top faces, and then Rollins, Orton, and.... Bray? Does he even count as a heel? Either way, Orton is a tired act that has feuded with everyone at this point, and Rollins is tied up with Ambrose for the foreseeable future. So what do Cena and Reigns do while Brock is away after SS? I guess the word on the street is Reigns gets to take on Hunter at NoC, so we will just have to wait and see.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I like C2D idea but I'd almost pass on the rumble with Brock just to see Brock inside the chamber. Would be delightful to watch poor souls get tossed around.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Hog Wild 1996*:

*Rey Mysterio Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon* ***3/4 100mph, featured a great dive by Rey, excellent IMO.
*Scott Norton vs. Ice Train* DUD
*Battle of the Bikes Match - Bull Nakano (with Sonny Onoo) vs. Madusa* * Mainly for the aftermath. They have had better of course, like in WWF.
*Chris Benoit (with Miss Elizabeth & Woman) vs. Dean Malenko* ****1/4 Fuck the crowd, this fucking RULES. Could have structred it without the 'overtime' part though.
*Harlem Heat (with Sherri & Col. Robert Parker) vs. The Steiner Brothers* **1/2 Decent apart from the finish.
*Ric Flair (with Miss Elizabeth & Woman) vs. Eddie Guerrero* ***½ Pretty good, could have been better IMO.
*The Outsiders (Kevin Nash & Scott Hall) vs. Lex Lugar & Sting* **3/4 Decent. Nick Patrick turn debut here.
*The Giant (with Jimmy Hart) vs. “Hollywood” Hulk Hogan* DUD The Giant laid in the ring, motionless, for all of the post match stuff, which must have been a good ten minutes

The best part of the PPV was in the Nakano/Madusa match, Nakano attacks with some nunchucks, which Dusty Rhodes pronounces in a hilarious way, then Heenan says' "With what", then
immediately after, i think Shiavone imitates the way he said it, then Heenan has a go of saying it the Dusty way, then Dusty proceeds to explain what they are used for, its fucking hilarious.

:lmao :lmao :lmao

Think i rewound that bit a thousand times.  Im that sad, i uploaded the bit:

x22jmdz


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Glad to see some love for Benoit vs Malenko from Hog Wild. :hb

Also forgot all about Batista for Brock's schedule. No doubt a match they'll consider at some point. Would probably move Orton to NOC and have Batista/Brock for Survivor Series. Or EC if Brock would work that.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

She hit her with da NUNCHUK! :lol

What is this Batista talk? Is he actually coming back at some point?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought Batista would be back by Summerslam TBH, but maybe around Sept now. No-one really knows.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

Presumably after his work with Guardians. Their was talk he'd be back for Summerslam but that is unlikely. He did sign a two year deal


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Did Mysterio/Benoit ever have a good match? I seem to recall a triple threat involving the two.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> Did Mysterio/Benoit ever have a good match? I seem to recall a triple threat involving the two.


Funny you ask that because a couple of days ago I finally watched their only singles match from 2002 and it turned out to be absolutely awesome. Just what you'd expect from two talented guys of their caliber.

There's obviously their tag matches in late 2002 as well as the triple threat with Angle - all of which are fun to watch.

x6j4sr


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lazyking said:


> Presumably after his work with Guardians. Their was talk he'd be back for Summerslam but that is unlikely. He did sign a two year deal


Well shit, this is actually good news. I was actually enjoying his work in the later months before he "quit", especially the singles matches on TV against Sheamus, Ziggler, & Rollins, etc. No problem with him coming back. 



The Fab Four said:


> Did Mysterio/Benoit ever have a good match? I seem to recall a triple threat involving the two.


Did a quick search and I got this. Has to be good, right? (I have no idea how to embed Dailymotion videos btw, only youtube)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsz2hy_chris-benoit-vs-rey-mysterio-smackdown-10-3-2002_sport

EDIT: Got ninja'd


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks guys, searched Google and found the same thing lol.  Ill check it out this week, i did think they may have had a match before, like in WCW, but can't find anything.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

The Fab Four said:


> Chris Benoit (with Miss Elizabeth & Woman) vs. Dean Malenko ****1/4 Fuck the crowd, this fucking RULES. Could have structred it without the 'overtime' part though.


Didn't like this match. It was probably because of the crowd. Thought it was pretty meh and around *** or less.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Maybe I didn't search enough, but is the Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior match from Summerslam 1992 posted on YT or Dailymotion? Couldn't find it. If you've got a link, please lend a hand


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Watch Warrior vs HTM from SS 88 instead. More entertaining.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Savage/Warrior from Summerslam 92 is sex. Better than the Mania match. Hmmm, you're right though. It isn't anywhere. Unless if you want to skim through all of Summerslam 92. Cue zep, although he seems busy.

Speaking of 1992, what were the television shows that WWE held back then? I'm guessing Superstars was one.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Easily prefer Norton vs Ice Train over Benoit vs Malenko. Not saying Norton vs Ice Train was particularity good, but at least logic was spread out & it worked. Norton worked his bad arm, Train tried to make a comeback, Norton said fuck you I'm gonna break it, he submitted. Of course, why they didn't pound the piss out of each other is another story, but at least it stuck w/something simple the entire way. Benoit vs Malenko isn't fun. Wrestling needs to be fun/entertaining or else what is the point?

Get that machinist bland crap out of my face.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Wrestling needs to be fun/entertaining or else what is the point?


Agreed. Get those fatty fatties and their sluggish pace and shitty punches out of my screen. Seriously. Why do fat wrestlers throw shitty punches? Besides Vader of course.

Eddie/Flair from that show was quality. Their Nitro match was even better.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

b/c Shawn Michaels proved throwing shitty punches can make you the greatest of all time in the eyes of many who watch WWF/WWE.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hey Cal, if you see this, can you post that link you have for the Finlay/Undertaker SD match? I really feel like watching that match and the only link that comes up on the google search is shit quality, I'd prefer to watch you're nice non grainy clip 

FF- Vader throws shitty punches???? I'm sorry, watching Vader tee off on guys heads in the corner with those vicious clubbing blows just happens to be one of my favorite things ever. You can say Vader throws shitty WORKING punches, because when he wrestles guys like HBK who wouldn't appreciate a bunch of stiff shots he definitely lightens up and they don't look so great. But all his stuff with Foley, Sting, Taker, and 90% of his stuff in Japan, times where he can let loose, work stiff, and be a monster, his punches/forearms look great I think.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Agreed. These girly punches of his alone have soured my outlook on his 2002-2010 run. Tis a shame that I've watched three Shane McMahon vs. Shawn Michaels matches this week, and not a single one of them had a single good looking punch. That SNME match :lol

But these punches that Undertaker threw on Austin 15:30 into the video. Oh man, find me punches worse than these if you dare


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> b/c Shawn Michaels proved throwing shitty punches can make you the greatest of all time in the eyes of many who watch WWF/WWE.


:cam2 well this is awkward


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Summerslam 2009 is still a big winner in my books:

*Intercontinental Championship*
Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 3/4
_They waste no time in this at all. Right off the bat it's big spots, a lot of counters, and false finishes. Had the crowd eating out of the palm of their hand. Perfect opener. Love the finish too._

DX vs. Legacy - *** 3/4
_God I fucking loved this feud. A couple of young disrespectful punks against the superstar veterans who know every trick in the book. Love how well they portrayed Michaels' ring rust and the long FIP segment with Triple H. There's a just a ton of nice touches in this along the way and Legacy was put over huge even with the loss._

*World Heavyweight Championship - TLC Match*
Jeff Hardy (c) vs. CM Punk - **** 1/4
_Yeah, this was really fucking good and my rating went up for it. Punk's aggressiveness right from the opening bell set the tone for what ended up being a ridiculously brutal match. The superplex on the ladder spot was nuts and I loved how real the struggle that came before the sunset flip spot felt. Surprise table spots always make me smile too. This was just fantastic all around and ended at just the right time after the biggest spot of the match. Both guys took a beating and sold it really well too. I can only think of one or two matches from 2009 that I liked more than this._

2008 is up next. I've never seen ANYTHING from this show except for the Michaels/Jericho segment. Hope I'm in for a treat.

EDIT: Oh and I didn't watch Cena/Orton again but I remember the finish vividly and I love it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Agreed. These girly punches of his alone have soured my outlook on his 2002-2010 run. Tis a shame that I've watched three Shane McMahon vs. Shawn Michaels matches this week, and not a single one of them had a single good looking punch. That SNME match :lol


Shawn vs Shane haha. Battle of who can hit the most air.



NAITCH said:


> :cam2 well this is awkward


:hayley4



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Summerslam 2009 is still a big winner in my books:
> 
> *Intercontinental Championship*
> Rey Mysterio (c) vs. Dolph Ziggler - *** 3/4
> ...


Mysterio vs Dolph :mark:

If only DX vs Legacy ended after that match. If only. Rest of their stuff was tripe.

'08 has a shit undercard but a good main event pool. Which is what the show was all about at the end of the day. _(four of em, after all)_ I like a Triple H vs Khali match. It's worth calling the show a success just for that. Stunned you haven't seen Undertaker vs Edge HIAC. Punk vs JBL is rather awesome too.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

How many fatties have shitty punches? Mick Foley doesn't count as a fatty.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like Mick's corner punches that look as if someone just insulted his mother. or his forearm punches that knock out fat worthless folk


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> How many fatties have shitty punches? Mick Foley doesn't count as a fatty.


Mick Foley doesn't have shitty punches. I wouldn't say he has GREAT punches or anything, but they aren't bad at all and his repeated forearm smashes in the corner can look pretty damn good. I just wish guys who can't punch well would just take the fucking punch out of their repertoire and replace it with a forearm. If you can't throw a good forearm you shouldn't be in the wrestling business.

I also wish they would ban the corner mounted "10 punch" thing where the crowd counts along that everyone and their sister does. It's embarrassing. It's even worse when the ref doesn't even make an attempt to try and break it up. It's EVEN worse than that when the baby face is the one who does it first before the heel has even thrown a punch. This might be an antiquated way of thinking, but I think in general, unless we are in the blowoff of a heated rivalry, the baby face should never be the one to throw the first punch. It's just illogical. Punches are supposed to be illegal in wrestling, so when John Cena starts off a nothing match on Raw by throwing punches it makes me cringe. It won't ruin the match for me or anything, I just wish they wouldn't do it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

SummerSlam 2008 might be the next full show I watch. Only seen 3 or 4 of the matches. Edge/Taker and Batista/Cena are both excellent. Have yet to see HHH/Khali but Punk/JBL was trash iirc.

Speaking of Punk, I took it upon myself to watch the Rumble match with ROCK again last night. :lol Yeah, it just keeps getting worse every time I watch it. First two times I enjoyed it a lot but last night I noticed the slowness of it more. It has some good portions but there are some highly boring parts plus the match is a bit messy after they go for the table Rock Bottom spot. :lmao @ Michael Cole's commentary after The Shield interfere. Others find it annoying, I just find it hilarious.

And to think, right before that match, I watched Eddie vs Angle from SummerSlam. Have to agree with others here in saying that match is no good at all. Nothing more than finisher spamming and their attempt at telling the story of Eddie wanting to show Kurt he can outwrestle him failed miserably after just two minutes.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Had a argument with someone today... he was saying Brock has lost it in the ring lol. Think he's judging WM 30 too much. How do you rate him since his return? 

Vs Cena: ****1/4
Vs HHH SS: ****
Vs HHH WM: **1/2
Vs HHH cage: ***3/4
Vs Punk: *****
Vs Taker: ***

Also, anyone think Cena/ Brock II can be as good as they're first match?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> How many fatties have shitty punches? Mick Foley doesn't count as a fatty.


Most of them. Kamala, Umaga, Henry, Bigelow, Rikishi, Earthquake, Bossman, etc. All of them throw that same shitty slow overhand children's punch that doesn't look like it would hurt a baby. At least Vader threw something that looked like a punch. And Foley's corner punches rule.

Shockingly enough, I never really liked Punk/JBL from Summerslam 08 that much. Probably worth a rewatch, but I liked their RAW match better.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Had a argument with someone today... he was saying Brock has lost it in the ring lol. Think he's judging WM 30 too much. How do you rate him since his return?
> 
> Vs Cena: ****1/4
> Vs HHH SS: ****
> ...


Actually commented on this exact thing last week myself.

vs. Cena - **** 1/4 (rating dropped on last watch a few days ago actually)
vs. HHH Summerslam - ** 1/2 (never cared for this)
vs. HHH Mania - **** (love this)
vs. HHH Cage - *** (goes in and out of being good and average but the final minutes help)
vs. Punk - ***** (totally perfect on the rewatch)
vs. Taker - ** (so boring)

I think Cena & Lesnar are most certainly capable of putting on another near classic, although the shock factor from the first match won't be there. The atmosphere should be incredible though. Such an unpredictable match. Plus, according to my up and down ratings, his next match is due to be a good one.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

xdoomsayerx said:


> Had a argument with someone today... he was saying Brock has lost it in the ring lol. Think he's judging WM 30 too much. How do you rate him since his return?
> 
> Vs Cena: ****1/4
> Vs HHH SS: ****
> ...


You forgot Brock/Big Show :brock

I would say you're pretty much spot on, though I don't recall thinking that Brock/Trips SS was better than ER (admittedly haven't watched them since they happened) and WM was probably ***. WM was definitely the worst of the Brock/Trips saga, but I don't think it didn't anything wrong to deserve sub-*** (besides having to follow Taker/Punk and the crowd being dead).

Taker/Brock I don't even know how to rate it anymore. The match was not good, but in retrospect, knowing how it ends, the match almost tells an entirely different story and for that the lack of excitement in the match is almost excusable. So in a way, maybe *** is a good place for it (it just feels wrong though)--from a "wrestling" standpoint, it's definitely sub-***, but for the (unintentional) story to be told of Brock pretty much annihilating a battered Taker for 25 minutes--at least ****. So it averages out.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Which one of you deleted all those posts?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forum is dying.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I hope everyone saved their super long reviews...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There is a really really good match between William Regal and JBL that none of you guys have seen. The pre-match promos were great too. 4/28/06


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There is a really really good match between William Regal and JBL that none of you guys have seen. The pre-match promos were great too. 4/28/06


Is that the one in England? If so, I HAVE seen it, it's on the Benoit/Blue Bloods set I have and I have to admit it's rather fantastic.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

My rep that zep gave me earlier today has disappeared because the post no longer exists apparently.  This shit is weird, man. Finished with Summerslam '08. Kind of afraid to post the review now...


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Fuck fuckity fuck fuck. Did anyone happen to save that link C2D posted of the Rey/Benoit match on Smackdown from 2002? His post got deleted before I could watch it. Dammit all to hell, I really wanted to see it too


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Fuck fuckity fuck fuck. Did anyone happen to save that link C2D posted of the Rey/Benoit match on Smackdown from 2002? His post got deleted before I could watch it. Dammit all to hell, I really wanted to see it too


Calm down brah. Just google search Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio and you got it. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsz2hy_chris-benoit-vs-rey-mysterio-smackdown-10-3-2002_sport


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

None of you guys have seen that rey/benoit match before ?

Also I have seen that Regal/JBL


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Who wasn't watching Smackdown in '06 to miss Regal vs JBL?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

funnyfaces1 said:


> There is a really really good match between William Regal and JBL that none of you guys have seen. The pre-match promos were great too. 4/28/06


Everybody's seen that. Well, a lot of people have. It's one of those matches that somebody gets recommended, then watches, thinks is really good (and it is, yeah), and then forgets about until somebody brings it up. But this post will be deleted anyway so FUCK YOU. HAHAAH PIECE A SHIT BITCH ASS I AM IMMORRRRTAL.

Rey/Benoit is good also. Best Benoit match of 2002, maybe. Did he face Goldustin 2002? :mark:


I literally did not mean to write "Goldustin." Is the forum adding letters to words now?

EDIT - OH. It's supposed to read "Goldust in 2002" :lmao I JUST FORGOT THE SPACE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'll do my best to make sure that post doesn't get deleted.

he was actually Goldustin at least once in Japan too.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Officially in full SUMMERSLAM HYPE MODE. Maybe I'll watch every SummerSlam in history. Or maybe just like three.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Malenko/Benoit was boooring as fook.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Why does it say on the General section that Cal had the most recent post here when he didn't? Or can I just not see it? What the fuck, WF? :lmao

Anyway, that must be a new record of time inbetween punches discussions on this board. Taker is proud :taker


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Summerslam 2008

*MVP vs. Jeff Hardy - ** 3/4

*Intercontinental Championship & Women's Championship - Winner Takes All
*Kofi Kingston (c) & Mickie James (c) vs. Santino Marella & Beth Phoenix - **

*ECW Championship
*Mark Henry (c) vs. Matt Hardy - :cuss:

*World Heavyweight Championship
*CM Punk (c) vs. JBL - *** 1/2

*WWE Championship
*Triple H (c) vs. The Great Khali - ** 3/4

John Cena vs. Batista - *** 3/4

*Hell in a Cell
*The Undertaker vs. Edge - *** 1/2


- So the opener is actually pretty solid. Some good work by MVP on Hardy's back and I was pleased with how the finish went down; as well as the victor. Liked how he never let Jeff hit anything the crowd wanted to see.  Intergender tag match was fun in the opening minutes and then went into mediocrity. Segment with Michaels & Jericho was fantastic. Great stuff, even though I think it should've been saved til later in the show. Oh well.

- So I was pretty fuckin pissed at how Hardy/Henry went down. There's just no excuse for it. 30 seconds? This ppv was 2 hours and 42 minutes. You were never pressed for time. You had literally no backstage segments whatsoever. Give these guys like 10 minutes and even run the same finish if you wanted to (even though this finish still sucks balls). Someone tell me when the rematch occurred and if it was good. Links? Yeah1993? I feel like I've heard good things about a match between them sometime.

- Punk vs. JBL was honestly probably my favorite match on the show. Loved it. JBL clobbering the champ into obvlivion. Had an old school feel to it. Constantly never letting Punk gain any momentum either. Punk's selling was great too. I could see why someone would hate the finish and I totally understand but the GTS came out of a perfect desperation predicament, he hit it quick, and it puts over the move as a deadly one that can come out of nowhere. This was good stuff. (Y)

- Someone in this thread at some point has said that Trips vs. Khali was actually pretty decent, right? Was it you funnyfaces? I know I'm not crazy and can't be alone in this. The whole match is dominated by Khali (as it should be) and he comes off like an unstoppable monster. That last sequence where Hunter's in the vice grip and he tries to power out of it just to get overmatched and placed right back in the hold had the crowd going bonkers at a possible comeback. The major negative to this is the shitty finish though. Khali is completely dominant, runs into the turnbuckle, and gets hit with one pedigree and it's over? No way. Khali should've kicked out with ease and Hunter should've went back to working to the leg to chop the big man down to hit _another _pedigree for the win. The crowd would've lost their shit if he was able to lock in a figure 4 on those massive legs. 

- Cena vs. Batista was much better than I was expecting. Coming from a guy who's never truly been a fan of either guy, I don't exactly look forward to their one on one matches. The build for this was ridiculous btw. "Oh you punched me and we have really big egos and I think I'm better than you. You suck, let's fight!" :lol Anyway, they worked this pretty well. Batista attacks the leg, Cena retaliates and attacks Batista'a leg in response, then they just throw big bombs at each other for like 5 minutes straight. I LOVED that reversal Cena had into the F-U and he actually reverted to laying out flat on the landing. That was a really nice touch to sell the leg. The finish however made me jump out of my fucking seat. Batista fucked Cena up AND he won!? Well fuck me, I'm shocked. 1/4* added for that alone.

- I have a lot of mixed feelings on Taker/Edge and I can't really pinpoint why. I can see why someone would adore it, but for the same reason is why I'm 50/50 on it. Edge reverts back to his hardcore ways and pulls out every weapon he can find, but in the same sense I felt like it was some kind of match I would've played on one of the old Smackdown vs. RAW video games. 'Hey man, grab the ladder and jump off on me.' 'Yeah dude, let's go outside the cell for an announce table spot.' 'Hit your finisher on me and see if I can still kick out.' Idk, I just feel like they did a lot of shit and it eventually hit overkill with the chokeslam, spear, last ride moments late in the match. I feel like less could've been more here. I do however appreciate the symbolism in the finish though. That was cool. There was stuff I liked along the way of course but it just felt like some kind of hardcore match, not a Hell in a Cell. I understand *** 1/2 is a good rating to give a match, but most of that comes from the opening minutes, the middle segment where Edge gets hit with a NASTY steel step bump and then they break the cell and have the announce table bit, and Taker just fucking dominating for the finish. The aftermath would've been way cooler if they dropped those stupid cut scenes out. That was weird.

Pretty good show. Could've been great if Henry & Hardy actually had a damn match... (can you tell that still bothers me?)​


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Matt Hardy vs Mark Henry (19/08 ECW)

Really good match. Of course it's on TV, right?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The good/awesome/nipple-wetting Henry/Hardy match is on 8/19/08. I think there's one on the last episode of ECW in 2008 as well but IDR it, and there's a match from an Austrian house show that's about as good as 8/19/08. Are you watching the rest of the 2008 PPVs? No Mercy has a super little match between them, too.


Can you believe WWE would stiff us out of Henry/Hardy at SummerSlam 08 and then stiff us out of Christian/Regal the next SummerSlam? Yes? You can believe it? Fuck you, McMahon?????


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Shit makes no sense! Finally found a link to their 8/19 match and saved it. I'm in the process of watching a bunch of Summerslams but this is the first one I've watched that's actually made me wanna watch a couple of the PPVs that occurred after it in the same year.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

RVD's punches end this thread.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, almost nothing comes close to the level of sucking while striking as the Rob Van Dam forearm....or, elbow....or...trying-to-brush-feather-off-opponent's-face.


TIP: if you can't see posts in the thread that might exist, hit "go advanced" down below, and you might see them if you scroll down past the text box. That is, if you can even see this post.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bork since return:
vs Cena: ***** (yeah, I'm one of those)
vs HHH SS: ***3/4
vs HHH WM: ***
vs HHH ER: ***1/2
vs Punk: ****3/4
vs Show: *
vs Taker: ***

Also, BORK must be a top contender for Mr. SummerSlam:
vs Rock: ****1/2
vs Angle: ****1/2
vs HHH: ***3/4
vs Punk: ****3/4

4 matches, 4 hits. Future's lookin' good for the Cena/Lesnar rematch.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

No way would I be calling Bork/Rock a ****1/2. As for Mr. SummerSlam, as much as I'm not his biggest fan (and I know plenty of people in this thread aren't), I'd be nominating Kurt Angle.

vs. Austin and Brock are both awesome, Mysterio is often cited as the best sub-10 minute match ever (at least in the WWE), and the 2000 Triple Threat and Guerrero match are both entertaining (if somewhat forgettable). Also he beat up Eugene.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Srdjan99 said:


> Maybe I didn't search enough, but is the Randy Savage vs Ultimate Warrior match from Summerslam 1992 posted on YT or Dailymotion? Couldn't find it. If you've got a link, please lend a hand


Ultimate Warrior vs Randy Savage (WWF Summerslam 1992)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k3DdAiXB62lgPd7gajx (Private)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Had that same problem, ATF. And it stays at Cal having the last post. Blargh.

Why am I the only one that doesn't "get" Punk/JBL (no C2D, you don't count)? I've never "interpreted" the match the same way JE187 just did though, so that's something worth looking into. Triple H works fairly well against bigger guys, so it's not erroneous that he can pass the Khali test. Worthy addition to my Best of Great Khali list.

Yeah you read that last sentence correctly.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ruiner87 said:


> No way would I be calling Bork/Rock a ****1/2. As for Mr. SummerSlam, as much as I'm not his biggest fan (and I know plenty of people in this thread aren't), I'd be nominating Kurt Angle.
> 
> vs. Austin and Brock are both awesome, Mysterio is often cited as the best sub-10 minute match ever (at least in the WWE), and the 2000 Triple Threat and Guerrero match are both entertaining (if somewhat forgettable). Also he beat up Eugene.


Well, that match had perfect booking, Brock looked like an absolute monster, the crowd was eletric all throughout and them turning on Rock was epic (though not quite Rock/Hogan epic), and the finish was just a mark-out moment there. Deserves that rating completely imo.

If Angle stopped at 2003, he'd be Mr. SummerSlam indeed. But from 04 onwards, his legacy is DESTROYED by one match and one match only:
vs Rock vs HHH: ***
vs Austin: *****
vs Rey: ***3/4
vs Brock: ****1/2
vs Eddie: DUD of DUD's
vs Eugene: **1/2

Eddie/Angle from 2004. Absolute disgust of a match. WM 20 was decent, their 2 out of 3 falls match was excellent, but this? Just... vomit-worthy.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Chris Benoit vs Randy Orton (Smackdown 01.27.2006) (No Holds Barred)



* By request.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Calm down brah. Just google search Chris Benoit vs. Rey Mysterio and you got it.
> 
> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xsz2hy_chris-benoit-vs-rey-mysterio-smackdown-10-3-2002_sport



Can you tell I came home drunk last night and really wanted to see that match? :lmao the thought never crossed my mind to google it, I figured if C2D's link was gone, the match would be lost forever.

Thanks a lot dude. Also, can you send me the link in a rep or a PM for that Hardy/Henry match you just found?


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena/Edge TLC is bad, the in-ring content is so dead and uninspiring that they focus on the hot canadian crowd to subtract the negatives. When you end a feud of hatred through "methodical" (sarcasm, it's plodding rather) pacing in a FUCKING TLC MATCH, you're doing something wrong.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Why are you always trying to start a "Let's shit on Edge/Cena TLC" discussion at random? You did it in your previous account and you're doing it now. Give that match a break ffs. 

Also thanks zep for the upload!



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Can you tell I came home drunk last night and really wanted to see that match? :lmao the thought never crossed my mind to google it, I figured if C2D's link was gone, *the match would be lost forever*.


:lmao


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

ATF said:


> Also, BORK must be a top contender for Mr. SummerSlam:
> vs Rock: ****1/2
> vs Angle: ****1/2
> vs HHH: ***3/4
> ...


I only have the HHH match at 3 stars and don't consider it a "hit", but I do agree with Brock being a serious contender for Mr. Summerslam and if the match with Cena is as good as the ER one was, his case will get even stronger.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Bret kills Brock


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Another one who could be a contender for Mr. SummerSlam is Edge:

w/Sable vs Mero & Jacqueline: ***
Tag Team Turmoil: ***1/4
TLC I: ****1/2
vs Storm: ***1/4
vs Eddie: ***
vs Jericho vs Batista: **
vs Matt: ***
vs Cena: ***3/4
vs Taker: ****1/4
w/Team WWE vs Nexus: ***1/2

Not a shabby record at all.

And speaking of Edge and a topic (re)started last page, I don't think Edge/Cena TLC is really THAT horrible as described here. Sure, it's terribly contrived and dull, but hey, the crowd was very hot and some of its moments (like Lita's involvement proving fatal for Edge and herself, and the final FU through the tables) were memorable. Their LMS was worse imo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Another two wrestlers who have a case for being up there among "Mr. SummerSlams" are Orton and Cena.

Cena had good to great matches with Jericho, Edge, Orton, Batista, Team Nexus and Bryan.
Orton had good to great matches inside the Chamber and with Benoit, Undertaker, Hogan, Cena and Christian.

What about Undertaker? Actually never mind because he was given subpar opponents for so many years.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Edge LMS was awesome. TLC was also awesome. Fuck the haters. <_<


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wouldn't say awesome, but I thought Cena/Edge LMS to be very similar to Cena/Wyatt LMS - "technically" horrible but entertaining at the same time. Not as much, but still pretty fun. Can't say that I loathe it thanks to that - after all, wrestling's about telling a story, but #2, it's about having fun. Still, its glaring flaws are too much for me to ignore. Same for the TLC match, though I do like the TLC match more.

Back to the Mr. SummerSlam argument, someone mentioned Bret. Good call:
w/Anvil vs Demolition '88: ***
w/Anvil vs Brainbusters: ****1/4
w/Anvil vs Demolition '90: ***1/2
vs Perfect: ****3/4
vs Bulldog: ****1/2
vs Doink/Lawler (consider both matches as one): ***1/2
vs Owen: ***1/4
vs Isaac Yankem: **3/4
vs Taker: ****1/4
w/Team WWE vs Nexus: ***1/2

Well, I think we have our winner here.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Can you tell I came home drunk last night and really wanted to see that match? :lmao the thought never crossed my mind to google it, I figured if C2D's link was gone, the match would be lost forever.
> 
> Thanks a lot dude. Also, can you send me the link in a rep or a PM for that Hardy/Henry match you just found?


EDIT: BASTARDS.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That Hardy/Henry video has been removed, Hitman.

Speaking of videos, how's it going with those 1999 and End of the Year videos, Cal?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wankers. Wankers.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I've experienced worse than that, so consider yourself lucky. :side:

Anyways, what do y'all think of Unforgiven '06?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> That Hardy/Henry video has been removed, Hitman.
> 
> Speaking of videos, how's it going with those 1999 and End of the Year videos, Cal?


1999 videos are going well, just slow. Working on editing 1 a day atm, managing to keep that going. Also need to record something else for the first video after I got some feedback. Which reminds me, I'd best charge my camera as I think I'll be able to record 2morrow, which means I'll hopefully be able to get at least 1 End of Year videos done. Not really put much thought into how I'm gonna do those videos. Guess I'll wing it .

Got a bunch of things going on atm lol, videos, scripts, rambles and even a game I'm making. Just hope I can keep it all going.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Good luck w/all of that.

Oh, for your End of Year vids, my suggestion is you take the exact same approach as in the WrestleMania special, only appropriate for the case here - description of the year and your thoughts on it, worker(s) of the year, top 10 matches of the year, top 10 PPV's of the year (though I recommend you use the RR special version w/the PPV poster in the background instead of just "Number 10" and such ) and the total rank of all PPV's in the Cal Scale. I'm not a paid assistent, but you should start paying me... in Euros, not Pounds 8*D.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I was actually thinking more in terms of scripted/unscripted and if I was going to make it more like a WM/RR special video or more like a vlog and try to keep it fairly short .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oooooh. Okay then, in that case you do as you want. I'd personally like to see the WM/RR special more as it is more in-depth and more entertaining I guess, but you do whatever you want .

Btw, not going on details, what exactly will be the 1999 videos about? Reviews? Random sitcoms?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Given the other stuff I've got going, I'm leaning more towards 5 minute vlog-y type things (spruced up a bit still), since I don't really have the time to spend a full day recording each year then editing them in between everything else. The rambles and my written end of year posts combined with a short video I think will be plenty for each year .

1999 videos are a secret . Not hyping them up or anything because when they are revealed people would likely just be let down by them :lmao.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Right then, good for you sir .

_"when they are revealed people would likely just be let down by them"_ I'm gonna throw a guess and say that Cal dissapointing everyone w/something he hypes big is becoming a running gag 8*D. (One of many in this thread tbh)


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I never hype anything because I know nothing is ever that good, so to save disappointment I just don't bother .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> _"when they are revealed people would likely just be let down by them"_ I'm gonna throw a guess and say that Cal dissapointing everyone w/something he hypes big is becoming a running gag


Cal has been watching TNA. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

LIES. I ain't watched TNA since Feb. Doesn't look like I'll be able to watch it soon anyway 8*D.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> - Someone in this thread at some point has said that Trips vs. Khali was actually pretty decent, right?​


Well hello, there. More than decent. It's openly good.

but plz realize MVP's work on this show was nothing short of :lelbron ffs that dude is trash. blows my mind.

Punk vs JBL MOTN. I agree. (Y)


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

This thread is confusing the hell outta me. 



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Well hello, there. More than decent. It's openly good.
> 
> but plz realize MVP's work on this show was nothing short of :lelbron ffs that dude is trash. blows my mind.
> 
> Punk vs JBL MOTN. I agree. (Y)


Could've been great if they did a different finish (as I've already said of course). I've never had that big a problem with MVP at all. He's just another guy. Thought his work was fine here. 

Probably only gonna watch two matches from '07. We'll see if either one of them turn out to be any good...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone watched the Bret Hart Timeline yet? Going to try to watch it tomorrow, although i need to watch Clash Of The Champions 33 at some point too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Anyone watched the Bret Hart Timeline yet? Going to try to watch it tomorrow, although i need to watch Clash Of The Champions 33 at some point too.


Aye, watched the Bret Hart timeline yesterday. Some interesting stuff, actually got an answer to a question I've had for years after watching a Paul Bearer shoot about someone who tried to cheat on the drug test and got caught! Bret is his usual self though, thinking he's better than he was and bitching at utter bullshit, but an interesting watch still .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam '07? If so, hopefully the two matches are Kane vs Finlay (OWNS) & Mysterio vs Chavo _(good match)_. Bad SummerSlam, unfortunately.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dont count on Cena/Orton

What's so funny about the Bret timeline and his feud w/ Flair, is that from pics and a Nattie's interview both are very friendly towards each other nowadays


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm watching the Bret Timeline episode tomorrow, seems cool.

SS 2007 isn't just a bad SummerSlam, it's very likely the WORST SS ever. I'd make a case for 1988, 1993 and 1995 all being better shows tbh.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#ROOT said:


> Aye, watched the Bret Hart timeline yesterday. Some interesting stuff, actually got an answer to a question I've had for years after watching a Paul Bearer shoot about someone who tried to cheat on the drug test and got caught! Bret is his usual self though, thinking he's better than he was and bitching at utter bullshit, but an interesting watch still .


Bret definitely comes off as a huge fan of himself in interviews and in his book, and yes he does always play the victim role, but I refuse to say he thinks he's better than he actually is, because Bret in my book is one of the best to ever do it. If I was that good at something, I'd be the most insufferable prick around 



NAITCH said:


> Dont count on Cena/Orton
> 
> What's so funny about the Bret timeline and his feud w/ Flair, is that from pics and a Nattie's interview both are very friendly towards each other nowadays


Don't quote this as fact, but personally I think Bret and a lot of other people dropped their beefs over stuff in the past with Naitch when his son Reed died. I mean that absolutely crushed Ric, and I think that put shit in perspective for a lot of dudes. I mean how can you hold on to animosity over dumb shit that happened in the past when this guy just had the single worst thing that can happen to any parent, happen to him? In the end, they are all in the fraternity of pro wrestlers, you need to show some heart when stuff like that happens to one of your fellow members. Atleast that's my take on it. Vader said something similar in his interview with Austin.

PLUS, maybe guys just smartened up and realized you end up looking bitter when you take shots at a guy who is widely considered one of the best, if not THE best, pro wrestlers in the history of the sport. And come on, it's Naitch. Listen to an interview with him for 5 minutes and you can't help but come away liking the guy. I for one can listen to Ric Flair interviews all day every day and never get bored, and he's not even one of my personal favorites.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Orton vs Cena from SummerSlam 2007 is awesome. Probably their fourth best match after NWO and the I Quit & Ironman matches.

That and Kane vs Finlay save it from being the worst SS ever. Don't know which that would be but from the ones I've seen, it's already better than the all the way through average 1999 show. My favorite match from 99 is probably the Al Snow/Boss Man match that went all the way to the streets.  Oh, 2007 is certainly better than the first SS too definitely.

*EDIT:* Speaking of MVP, I still have no reason to hate him, but I can at least _understand_ where it comes from. That happened by watching his match with Benoit from Backlash the other day and it didn't hold up as much as before. Mainly due to MVP's dull control segment in the middle of the match. But there was enough good stuff to put it above the 3 star mark.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

C2D name dropped the two matches I'll be watching. Haven't seen anything since it aired, but I even thought Kane/Finlay was MOTN back then.  Rey/Chavo was decent but forgettable considering how many matches those two have had. Wasn't that the one where Rey was the Silver Surfer or something and painted his whole body silver? Pretty sure it's on _Life of a Masked Man_

1999 has that absolutely AWESOME Greenwich Street Fight between Test & Shane. I can't speak for the rest of the show though. Have it on vhs tape for when I was a kid, but never thought it was that great at age 7.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> C2D name dropped the two matches I'll be watching. Haven't seen anything since it aired, but I even thought Kane/Finlay was MOTN back then.  Rey/Chavo was decent but forgettable considering how many matches those two have had. Wasn't that the one where Rey was the Silver Surfer or something and painted his whole body silver? Pretty sure it's on _Life of a Masked Man_
> 
> 1999 has that absolutely AWESOME Greenwich Street Fight between Test & Shane. I can't speak for the rest of the show though. Have it on vhs tape for when I was a kid, but never thought it was that great at age 7.



Did you ever make it to the AWESOME Kane/Finlay Belfast Brawl on the Kane set we both bought but you never bothered finishing? 

I've never seen the Cena/Orton Ironman match. Shocker, I know, but on paper it just sounds awful, as their match at NWO 2008 was the only one I'd seen from them that I liked until the match they had on Raw this year (which was definitely solid).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Did you ever make it to the AWESOME Kane/Finlay Belfast Brawl on the Kane set we both bought but you never bothered finishing?
> 
> I've never seen the Cena/Orton Ironman match. Shocker, I know, but on paper it just sounds awful, as their match at NWO 2008 was the only one I'd seen from them that I liked until the match they had on Raw this year (which was definitely solid).


Hahaha. Nope, sure haven't. Soon... maybe. 

Same thoughts on that Ironman match. No matter how good someone may tell me it is, it's still Cena vs. Orton for 60 minutes. I don't know if I can ever watch that.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I've never seen the Cena/Orton Ironman match. Shocker, I know, but on paper it just sounds awful, as their match at NWO 2008 was the only one I'd seen from them that I liked until the match they had on Raw this year (which was definitely solid).


Unless you're prejudiced against this combination, you should be able to enjoy the ironman. There's plenty of fun in it every time I've watched it. Dunno if you've seen it, but if you sat through Bret vs HBK for 60 minutes, you can damn sure watch Orton vs Cena. It's a No DQ match too, so they use the 60 minutes to go around the arena and do some outrageous shit while at it. I'd rather not spoil some of the things that happen, though. But it's a super fun match which even I was unsure about when I first went out of my way to watch. A few small parts drag but it's more good than bad.

If you liked their Raw match this year, that only further tells me you'll be able to enjoy it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Cena vs. Orton Ironman isn't bad at all IMO. Reminds me of Rock vs. HHH in that on paper it sounds like garbage, but it's actually a pretty entertaining 60 minutes. And better than HBK vs. Bret :side:


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Summerslam '07:

Kane vs. Finlay - *** (Good opener. Fun little brawl with some good rib selling from Kane and and a nice finshing stretch)

Cena vs. Orton - ** 3/4 (OH MY FUCKING GOD. 7 years later and that finish STILL pisses me off. Who cares what even happened before that? I hate that finish so damn much! SO DAMN MUCH!)

Time for Smackdown!


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Cena/Orton Iron Man match is quite entertaining. One of those matches where you can just sit down and enjoy the ride in a fairly passive manner. I wouldn't recommend it, but I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid it either.


----------



## Big Pete (Jul 23, 2011)

*nWo Souled Out 1997*

The best thing I can say about the show is that at least it wasn't as bad as Uncensored 1996.

The show is remembered as one of the biggest bombs in Pro Wrestling history and while I don't think it's far off, I don't think the show is without some merit.

For instance, I actually like the concept of the show. The nWo was the hottest stable in wrestling and they wanted to take over, so of course they'd have their very own PPV. Even if the show wasn't very good, I still think that idea on it's own really puts the nWo over as this revolutionary stable.

I also think on a mainstream level, it wasn't the worst show in the world. 

The show featured the first major defeat of The Outsiders, a rare WCW ladder match and despite finishing the night with spray-paint on his back, I thought the Giant looked better than he did going into the event.

So where did it all go wrong?

The biggest issue I had with the show was the Miss nWo paegent. I actually didn't mind the concept - it was a play on the 'Fuck a Fugly Chick' college game and COULD have been a decent set up for a nice babyface moment. Instead, they spend a fair portion of the show hyping this segment up only to play it straight. This whole segment would rank right up there as one of the worst I've seen in Pro Wrestling history and died a miserable death.

The other problem is that when it was all said and done, Nick Patrick was the best worker of the show. Every match bar one (Guerrero/Syxx) centered on his involvement and rendered all the matches into a joke. The idea of the nWo having their own bias referee sounded good in theory but in practice it really dragged the show out. In hindsight, it would have been a good idea either to save him for the main event, or eliminate him after the opening match to demonstrate that the nWo planned on using a corrupt official but had to settle for a neutral referee due to unforeseen circumstances.

Speaking of monotony, I really think they should have given guys like Syxx and such liscened tunes to make them appear cooler. Hearing them come out to the nWo B song over and over again got old by about Bubba/Morrus. I also think they needed a commentary rotation with Nash, Hall, Syxx, Hogan joining/replacing Dibiase and Bischoff through out.

With a bit more creativity, a better build and a stronger undercard, I reckon the show could have been salvagable.

As it stands, it's a fairly skippable show outside of Syxx/Guerrero which isn't a GREAT ladder match per say, but definitely watchable and I think Eddie was really harsh on it in his book. Outside of the flat finish, I thought it was a good time with a fun opening exchange and a couple of nice bumps with the ladder.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Another one in the boat of Cena/Orton Ironman match being entertaining. I wasn't watching the product at the time but I did watch that match and had a lot of fun doing so. They do a good job of keeping your attention for 60 minutes and not having it drag.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena vs Orton Irom Man is wacky. You should check it out at least once just b/c it is a whole mess of different things. Having the 30 second intervals used to zap away time was smart. b/c if that would have added to it...oof.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Anyone else like Great Khali vs. Undertaker at Judgment Day 2006?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

It isn't bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Aye.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

By 2006 the Undertaker had well over a decade of working with shitty big workers so it's no surprise that they had decent matches. 

I saw some of Souled Out not too long ago on the Network and they had the right idea but it just didn't work. I won't say they were close to doing something amazing but there were in the same ballpark. So much of it didn't work and masked things that did. I think they needed to go smaller on an arena and find some way to make sure it was all NWO fans. They went for the feel that we were seeing a show on their home turf but the crowd was just the same crowd as any other wrestling show. Had they been able to get like a small venue filled with NWO black and white shirts that were rabidly behind the NWO I think it would have worked. The ring announcer insulting the WCW guys was really funny, the look of the arena was cool, and the heel announcers was a good idea. It was a great concept that they didn't execute properly. My ideal Souled Out is a venue like the Hammerstein Ballroom (which when filled to capacity has sort of a coliseum/fighting pit feel) with everyone wearing black and white and brutally booing WCW while going crazy for the NWO. You know make it look and feel like the WCW guys were in a hostile environment. Instead it was just the WCW guys getting mocked and screwed over the entire show.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It isn't bad but I'd consider it one of the lowpoints of an awesome PPV that gives us Londrick/MNM, Benoit/Finlay, Angle/Henry and JBL/Mysterio just to name a few. I need to rewatch Angle/Henry again because I remember it being pretty enjoyable and far better than I'd expect it. Specially after the poor match that main evented Royal Rumble that year.

I'm on a bit of a Bork binge so I just got done with my third time watching Brock vs Triple H inside the steel cage. Not quite as good as first two times but still highly enjoyable and easily my favorite of the series. Triple H's control of the match is also nowhere near as squash-esque as I remembered it being. Brock screaming is not pretty, though, because he sounds like a little girl with that voice. Still need to watch SummerSlam because I've only seen it once and that's on the day it happened (or the day after, don't really remember).

Gonna close the night with Orton vs Undertaker from Armageddon.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Henry vs Angle holds up for me. Strong show, only miss is the crummy Booker vs Lashley match. At least it set up a big angle for Booker on the year, so it had purpose.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd have a hard time picking MOTN from JD 06 - opening tag, Finlay vs Benoit and JBL vs Rey are all **** or above.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Its still def Finlay vs Benoit for me. Doesn't remove any other matches from being great in their own right too. However, when the former is pretty much my WWE MOTY, it is a lock.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Was Cena/Orton Iron Man at SS'07?


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

TaylorFitz said:


> I saw some of Souled Out not too long ago on the Network and they had the right idea but it just didn't work. I won't say they were close to doing something amazing but there were in the same ballpark. So much of it didn't work and masked things that did. I think they needed to go smaller on an arena and find some way to make sure it was all NWO fans. They went for the feel that we were seeing a show on their home turf but the crowd was just the same crowd as any other wrestling show. Had they been able to get like a small venue filled with NWO black and white shirts that were rabidly behind the NWO I think it would have worked. The ring announcer insulting the WCW guys was really funny, the look of the arena was cool, and the heel announcers was a good idea. It was a great concept that they didn't execute properly. My ideal Souled Out is a venue like the Hammerstein Ballroom (which when filled to capacity has sort of a coliseum/fighting pit feel) with everyone wearing black and white and brutally booing WCW while going crazy for the NWO. You know make it look and feel like the WCW guys were in a hostile environment.


You should listen to the Bryan and Vinny review of it.




> Instead it was just the WCW guys getting mocked and screwed over the entire show.


That was the problem with the NWO angle, imo. It made almost all of the babyfaces look like geeks.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Saw this requested recently, thought id up it. 

Finlay vs The Undertaker (Smackdown 03.09.2007)

x22n9is

If it fucking stays up, eh Vince.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> Was Cena/Orton Iron Man at SS'07?


Bragging Rights '09.

SummerSlam was their first match on PPV to spark their long standing rivalry.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Judgment Day '06 love up there. :nice

We all talk about the highlights of that show [MNM/Londrick, Benoit/Finlay (probably the 3rd MOTY behind the ONS 6-person tag and Angle/Taker for me), Angle/Henry and Mysterio/JBL], but the undertalked gems are also there - Helms/Crazy was pretty fun, the aforementioned Taker/Khali was good for a squash and I was genuinely shocked at how not bad Melina/Jillian turned out to be. If it wasn't for WrestleMania 22 and No Mercy, this would be the best PPV of 2006, period. Maybe Backlash also gives it a run for its money, but I would still prefer this tbh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Backlash was super disappointing. Only three good matches, and none of them are great. Lots of boring moments. On the level of something like MITB 2014. Maybe worse. JD 06 has been a blast, and the only show that can beat it is One Night Stand. WM kinda dropped off too. And why is every heel turn so shitty?

Did Finlay have a match with Cena? Or Batista or other big names besides Taker?


----------



## It'sTrue (Apr 8, 2014)

Does anyone know where to buy custom made dvds. Specifically looking for wcw and wwe complete years of raw and nitro between 1995 and 2003. Thanks


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Benoit/Finlay is a MOTDC.


Pretty sure Finlay had more than a couple matches with Batista from 06 to 07.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WCW Clash Of The Champions 33: (08/15/1996)

Rey Mysterio vs. Dean Malenko ***3/4
Jim Duggan vs. VK Wallstreet 1/4*
Konnan vs. Ultimo Dragon (w/Sonny Oono) 1/2*
Randy Savage vs. Meng (w/Jimmy Hart) N/A
Madusa vs. Bull Nakano (w/Sonny Oono) *
Eddie Guerrero vs. Diamond Dallas Page **
The Giant vs. Chris Benoit (w/Woman & Elizabeth) DUD
Harlem Heat (w/Sister Sherri) vs. Sting & Lex Luger vs. Rick & Scott Steiner **1/2
Hollywood Hogan vs. Ric Flair (w/Woman & Elizabeth) **

Was this the only time Hogan 'Hulked up' in the NWO era?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Nothing to see on Smackdown this week, by the way. Swagger vs. Cesaro had its moments but the finish was rushed and it was... a bit surprising to say the least. Jericho vs. Rowan again had its moments and again had a rushed finish to go along with some awkward moments down the stretch. The Miz on commentary or Paige yelling at the trainers was probably my highlight of the night.  There's a hilarious line on commentary about The Waltons. (and I realize many of you will have no idea what that is)


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yea I was thoroughly disaapointed in Swagger/Cesaro. What's the harm in giving them some freaking time and not rushing everything? I don't get it. It's Smackdown, give Cesaro and Swagger 20 minutes including commercials and let them tear shit up, something they are imminently capable of doing. I wish they would give Smackdown the gimmick of allowing longer matches, because all these 7 minute matches with a commercial break do is frustrate me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, at least you have the Smackdown 4/25 match between Swagger and Cesaro that's really good. At least that scenario has kinda been played out already, so if this week doesn't satisfy, you can still go back to that one.

Anyways, since we were discussing 2006 up there, thoughts on Unforgiven?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

My go-to choice for most overrated show.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 08/19/1996 episode of Nitro. Bischoff mentioned the WWF lawsuit towards WCW. Was this to do with Hall and him still using the 'Razor gimmick'?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

More or less. Apparently the lawsuit was because WCW was presenting the nWo as affilliated to the WWF, and because Scott Hall's character was ripping off Razor Ramon.

Oh and more rumors regarding NXT: apparently the Young Bucks are NXT bound. Goddamn.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Enjoyed the Bret Timeline, some interesting thoughts. Yeah self promotion was still there, but its expected, and in some cases, true anyway. Id recommend it.

The Cornette and Nash ones are still the standard and are still difficult to match or beat.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I really should watch the Cena/Edge TLC and Cena/Edge LMS from Backlash '09 sometime because I used to really like both (talkin **** each here) but just about everyone has seemed to sour on them and I'm wondering if I'd do the same because of how much I didn't like what Edge did in his HIAC match with Taker. Edge in general seems to do nothing for me these days outside of a random match here or there when he's the underdog face (vs. Del Rio).



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Yea I was thoroughly disaapointed in Swagger/Cesaro. What's the harm in giving them some freaking time and not rushing everything? I don't get it. It's Smackdown, give Cesaro and Swagger 20 minutes including commercials and let them tear shit up, something they are imminently capable of doing. I wish they would give Smackdown the gimmick of allowing longer matches, because all these 7 minute matches with a commercial break do is frustrate me.


Exactly. I miss the days of Smackdown 2002-2006 where almost every week you would get a ***+ match or _something_ that's worth your while. Having Fandango lose to one of the Matadores and Paige beat a diva in 10 seconds is not necessary. Just scrap all that and give me a match that goes 15 minutes and doesn't have a finish that's influenced by an outside figure to build upon a current storyline throughout the company. I want some good wrestling! 

Has everyone heard about the NXT Takeover 2 announcement yet?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes I did regarding Takeover 2, the card (so far) looks... kinda interesting. Very weird but interesting. The Main Event could be hit or miss, as could the Tag Title match though that one is more likely to go for miss. Both tag matches in fact. Though I kinda am looking forward for the Women's Title match.

Here's the card for those who haven't seen it:


Spoiler: Takeover 2



NXT Championship: Adrian Neville (c) vs. Sami Zayn vs. Tyler Breeze vs. Tyson Kidd
NXT Women's Championship: Charlotte (c) vs. Bayley
NXT Tag Team Championship: The Ascension (c) vs. Sin Cara & Kalisto
Hair vs. Hair Match: Enzo Amore & Colin Cassady vs. Sylvester Lefort & Marcus Louis


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Card looks pretty weak if I'm being honest. I have no idea who any of those guys are in the 2nd tag match.  Main event _could_ be fun, but let me ask this:



Spoiler: NXT question



Did Breeze ever get his one-on-one Title match against Neville? I used to follow NXT but it kinda just got to the point where the matches would be fine but nothing I needed to watch every week. Kinda have the same attitude towards Main Event now.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Spoiler: NXT answer



Nope. He hasn't ever that one-on-one shot. Which is weird. Thought they would trust Neville/Breeze enough as a live special Main Event. Though I gotta be honest, maybe this is a better choice. Who knows.

Also, you don't know Enzo Amore? The guy is very entertaining. Maybe not the best wrestler, but entertaining. And how can you not look forward to the possibility (slim one though) of Bayley winning the title? Charlotte kinda sucks, Bayley has DAT ASS and isn't bad in the ring either. Even though this should've been Charlotte/Sasha, but whatever. At least it isn't Charlotte/Natalya again. Sure that was a good match, but WAAAAYY overrated. So yeah.


Maybe NXT will regain some of its lost hype when Crowe, Devitt or Steen make their debut... if that happens anytime soon. Slate Randall never even got the chance.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Four way match could be good given enough time, looking forward to that at least.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> You should listen to the Bryan and Vinny review of it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is that a podcast or something? 

I will agree that a lot of the undercard guys looked like idiots during the NWO feud but I don't really feel that way about some of the top guys. I mean DDP came out looking like a badass and to 7 year old me Lex Luger was nothing short of a super hero trying to fight them on his own and he would always come so close. 



WWE Backlash 2003 

This is one of the few shows from this time period that I’ve never seen (and quite possibly for good reason) but let’s hope that I’m wrong. Seeing the Cena/Brock match for the first time might be fun at least. 


_WWE Tag Team Championship Match_
*Team Angle(c) vs. Los Guerreros*

Good opener to say the least and a compelling tag match. Eddie and Chavo start out getting the best of Haas and Benjamin on the mat and they do their hilarious cheating as faces schtick that is always fun to watch. From there I thought they took a really interesting approach to the match because it ended up being Team Angle trying to out cheat Eddie and Chavo. The Guerreros were the first to break rules in the match and they ended up losing from cheating in the end. On one hand I liked seeing how Haas and Benjamin would do the sequence of cheap tricks that Eddie and Chavo just did but on the other hand the match makes you feel a little weird. Watching a new team out Guerrero the Guerreros was just strange to see. Either way the match was smartly worked and it’s always good to see and Eddie match for the first time. The match also have me an appreciation for how unique their gimmick was and how much they would put a team over when they beat them. If the faces cheat as much as the heels any type of win from the heels can be looked at as a clean win. Haas and Benjamin looked like the better team here. They kept things fairly toned down and more basic than some of the great matches but this is still really enjoyable.
*****


*Sean O’Haire w/Roddy Piper vs. Rikishi*

This about as good as you would expect, which isn’t very good. The match lasted for maybe 5 minutes and a good chunk of it was spent on an uninspiring control segment. He did have a couple of cool looking moves but didn’t show much personality. Piper was too over the top as a manager as well. He basically got O’Haire control of the match and then won the match later for him by being a huge distraction. 
*½**


_World Tag Team Championship Match:_
*The Dudley Boys vs. Rob Van Dam and Kane(c)*
_Special Referee: Chief Morley _

Pretty good match. Kane and RVD were faces were the Dudleys were in tweener mode as they had not decided if they were going to be on the same side as Eric Bischoff. Anyway for most of the match they kept the pace up with neither team establishing control. It was a lot more entertaining than I was expecting and I think that had to do with pacing. RVD didn’t bother me in a tag team setting, Kane was fun in short bursts, and the Dudleys did well with the faster pace. So much fuckery at the end. Morley and the Dudleys had a falling out and Lance Storm ran in for no apparent reason. Solid enough match for me.
***¾ *


_Women’s Championship Match_
*Jazz w/Teddy Long vs. Trish Stratus(c)*

I really liked this. It was a super fun short match as Trish and Jazz just meshed really well. Jazz was the bad ass bitch and her aggressiveness came across perfectly while Trish played the gritty, injured babyface. Trish went in with injured ribs and Jazz attacked the injury. Teddy Long made a fun heel manager as well. They looked like wrestlers in their and thinking that I used to shit over solid matches like this makes me feel stupid. 
***¼ *


*Big Show vs Rey Mysterio*

Really fun cat and mouse game. With such an absurd size difference they worked the match perfectly. Big took some offense from Rey but it wasn’t anything that looked dumb and the offense as a whole looked believable. Naturally, everything Big Show did looked fantastic on Rey. The match was sub 5 minutes but it makes my list of awesome short matches. 
***½ *


_WWE Championship Match:_
*Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena*

The start of the match reminded me a lot of their Extreme Rules match as Brock just killed Lesnar and it looked like he might not get any offense in at all. The ass kicking was just great. Cena was able to take advantage of a cut on Lesnar’s head and opened him up as soon as he got on offense. The blood really worked well for this match as Lesnar looked like the unstoppable monster at first but once he started bleeding the whole dynamic changed and he looked to be in a lot of trouble. When Brock would get some offense in you had the feeling that Cena was just hanging onto control and that he was going to have a problem if he let up even a little. It was fun seeing Cena use some heel tactics to try to stay in the match. Overall I liked the match but Cena wasn’t quite treated like a real main event guy as he was a massive underdog while playing the heel at the same time. Still, this worked pretty well and it was better than I was expecting because I didn’t have much faith that Cena would be having too many good matches this early in his career. But I think that might be a bad assumption because I’ve seen a few quality matches before he his first title run now.
****½ *


*Triple H, Ric Flair, and Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, and Booker T*

I feel like I saw someone give this a really bad review not too long ago. I won’t say that this was bad at all, my biggest problem with the match is that it was a PPV main event instead of a Raw main event.You saw some nice exchanges involving everyone to start things off before Shawn was able to hit Sweet Chin Music on Flair and Triple H responded with a Pedigree. Flair was able to make the tag and we got a solid isolation segment on Michaels. A lot of the match was focused on Nash getting his hands on Triple H and they teased that encounter really well and they had them meet at the right time. Nash doesn’t exactly make for a hot tag but at least things totally broke down once he made it into the ring. There was a lot of stuff going on, a ref bump, a sledgehammer, and then the heels stole the win. The match didn’t drag Shawn makes a good face in peril, Flair is just the man, and everyone else was perfectly fine in this match. No it isn’t great but there wasn’t anything bad about it either. Nobody would complain at all if this was a Raw main event or something.
***¾ *


*The Rock vs. Goldberg*

This reminded me a lot of Cena/Rock II except this lasted 10 minutes instead of 30. Goldberg kicked some ass to start things off, missed a spear, hit the corner, and then they did finishers and signature moves for the rest of the match. It really wasn’t very good at all. The Rock’s heel character was a lot of fun at least and made this entertaining at times. I loved his reaction of shock and happiness when Goldberg missed the spear. Other than the Rock’s antics and Goldberg’s spears looking pretty cool there isn’t anything else positive to say. The crowd wasn’t happy seeing Goldberg go over the Rock and Goldberg’s big debut ended with a “Goldberg sucks!” chant as he set up the Rock for the Jack Hammer. 
***​

Not a very good show. There are plenty of decent matches but without a really great match this just isn’t worth the time. Maybe watch Cena/Brock because of who they are and the match was good but I hadn’t seen this show and I really wasn’t missing much.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Either way I'm sure the show will probably over-achieve like the first two have. You know the pressure's gonna be on anyway because of the company wanting people to renew their Network subscriptions. I'll watch it if I'm off, if not just catch the replay after reading some reviews.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> Spoiler: NXT answer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with the bolded section of the spoiler.

I heard someone call the Natalya v. Charlotte match the second best of the year for women AND men. fpalm Another reason to hate the IGWC.

Even though it is now a tired match up, didn't Orton and Cena have a fewreally good matches back in the 2007-2009 period? I think one was from No Way Out and the other was the I Quit Match (Or the Iron Man, I can't remember, or it's both).


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Good lord, Maryse's tits look gigantic in your sig. 

Yeah Cena vs. Orton had a couple good matches in their first couple years of the rivalry. No Way Out 2008 and... well honestly I don't like too many of them. A lot of people love their Breaking Point I Quit match, but I'm not one of them. Hate the finish, per usual with older Cena. Summerslam 2009 isn't anything special but memorable because of the finish. I've never seen their Hell in a Cell or Ironman matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I hope Takeover 2 does overachieve, but as the old saying goes, third time's the charm. Maybe it's the time for a NXT live special to be not that good. But hopefully it does deliever.

Now, I decided to rewatch for the 2nd time the entire triple Main Event of Takeover:
- *Zayn/Breeze* is still the competitive badassery it has always been, nothing to add to that other than on this rewatch I noticed some minor things like the BRUTAL landing that Breeze took on the outside ramp after Zayn's plancha to the outside;

- *Natalya/Charlotte* stays exactly as it was as well. It's still overrated as fuck, though it is good. And would've been really fucking good had not it been for that horrible and confusing Figure Four spot. Unlike the Orange Crush botch turned into incredible improvisation in the Zayn/Neville match, that "thing" right here brings down the match A LOT. And I do mean A LOT. Shame, since the match does kinda feel like a fight as well at points and Charlotte's work was actually better than Natalya's tbh;

- *Neville/Kidd* totally went up, though. At first I didn't really "get it" and thought it was pretty boring despite good storytelling to go (young vs veteran w/same styles). Now though, I did get the match and loved how either man, more often than not Neville, would outsmart each other and prove the other wrong, which was a constant throughout the match. Best moment of that was surely the wicked backflip counter to a sunset flip, which left Kidd flabbergasted, and me with a big smile in my face. Very good match overall.

*STARZ~:
Zayn/Breeze: ****
Natalya/Charlotte: ***1/4
Neville/Kidd: ***1/2*

EDIT: Also, Maryse's tits. More reasons to hate the Miz.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Our ratings are almost exactly the same except I have Natty/Charlotte at *** and the main event at *** 3/4. That figure 4 sequence made no sense whatsoever in the women's match. Did you guys know WWE.com named that the best match of the year thus far? It was either number one or number two, idr. :lol Neville/Kidd was really good imo.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TaylorFitz said:


> *The Rock vs. Goldberg*
> 
> This reminded me a lot of Cena/Rock II except this lasted 10 minutes instead of 30. Goldberg kicked some ass to start things off, missed a spear, hit the corner, and then they did finishers and signature moves for the rest of the match. It really wasn’t very good at all. The Rock’s heel character was a lot of fun at least and made this entertaining at times. I loved his reaction of shock and happiness when Goldberg missed the spear. Other than the Rock’s antics and Goldberg’s spears looking pretty cool there isn’t anything else positive to say. The crowd wasn’t happy seeing Goldberg go over the Rock and Goldberg’s big debut ended with a “Goldberg sucks!” chant as he set up the Rock for the Jack Hammer.
> ***[/CENTER]


From that debut match, they made Goldberg do that 'Missed spear in the corner' spot quite a few times. 

Watching the 08/28/1996 episdoe of Nitro, DiBiase and Jericho just made their Nitro debuts. Great watching these shows for the first time TBH, as i only really watched WWF back in the day.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Backlash was super disappointing. Only three good matches, and none of them are great. Lots of boring moments. On the level of something like MITB 2014. Maybe worse. JD 06 has been a blast, and the only show that can beat it is One Night Stand. WM kinda dropped off too. And why is every heel turn so shitty?
> 
> Did Finlay have a match with Cena? Or Batista or other big names besides Taker?


Backlash is a pretty fun show. Shelton/RVD, the triple threat and Masters/Carlito are all pretty enjoyable. Even had fun with the handicap tag even though I felt it was a bit too long.

Finlay wrestles Cena one-on-one in December and he has a couple of matches with Batista. One that I really liked is from November iirc.



ATF said:


> Anyways, since we were discussing 2006 up there, thoughts on Unforgiven?


Remember it being mostly good. Enjoyed the TLC, Orton/Carlito, Trish/Lita, the HIAC and Umaga/Kane. That's like the entire show.  Oh, and there was a Hardy vs Nitro match somewhere that I recall being one of their weaker matches together and some trash involving the Spirit Squad per usual.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah Cena vs. Orton had a couple good matches in their first couple years of the rivalry. No Way Out 2008 and... well honestly I don't like too many of them. A lot of people love their Breaking Point I Quit match, but I'm not one of them. Hate the finish, per usual with older Cena. Summerslam 2009 isn't anything special but memorable because of the finish. I've never seen their Hell in a Cell or Ironman matches.


Bro, you focus _way too much_ on the finish.  I'm a bigger Orton fan and don't mind the finish for either the I Quit or SummerSlam 2007 matches!

If the finish was the be all end all for match quality, then Brock vs Cena would've been a certified DUD.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Coming up to WCW Fall Brawl 1996 soon, and just been reminded it contains Benoit/Jericho. Never seen the match, but always heard good things about it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Our ratings are almost exactly the same except I have Natty/Charlotte at *** and the main event at *** 3/4. That figure 4 sequence made no sense whatsoever in the women's match. Did you guys know WWE.com named that the best match of the year thus far? It was either number one or number two, idr. :lol Neville/Kidd was really good imo.


LOL WWE.com. That top 50 WWE Title match list should provide you enough laughs ALONE just to prove how worthless their credibility is. Compared to me, that is :side:.

I can somewhat understand the whole "best Diva match evah~" hype it gets - considering a Divas match of its quality hadn't happened since fucking 2010 and that was on the ever so glourious (sarcasm) 3rd season of NXT lmao) which means not a lot of people have seen it - but, for the love of God, a MOTYC? It would be arguable... if that hideous Figure Four sequence had never happened. But it did. And it took away so much from the match it wasn't even hilarious, it was just sad. And that's to not say depressive.

But anyway. Do you guys think the WWE is ever going to do a WWE vs NXT live special?


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Fab Four said:


> Coming up to WCW Fall Brawl 1996 soon, and just been reminded it contains Benoit/Jericho. Never seen the match, but always heard good things about it.


One of the most underrated War Games matches if you know your wrestling history as well. Seeing Anderson in Flair working as the faces in that match was something special. The first 5 minutes where Anderson was the fiery babyface kicking ass was just awesome considering he was pretty much always a heel in War Games matches. Once him and Flair were in there it was great because you could tell that the people there really wanted them to win and that's infectious when you're watching a match.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Did Finlay have a match with Cena? Or Batista or other big names besides Taker?


Guess it depends on who you consider a "big name" 

In straight one-on-one, televised matches:

Vs Batista
Nov 10 '06 SD
Dec 08 '06 SD
Apr 20 '06 SD
Aug 24 '07 SD
Jan 22 '10 SD

Vs Cena
Dec 15 '06 SD


Vs Flair
July 06 '07 SD


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Card looks pretty weak if I'm being honest. I have no idea who any of those guys are in the 2nd tag match.  Main event _could_ be fun, but let me ask this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: NXT



Yes. On a set of tapings that will air this month. He works vs Neville, but it ends in DQ or something & morphed into a tag match: Neville & Zayn vs Breeze & Kidd. Which is the obvious set up for the four way.

and omg Zayn plz. but a close call finish w/Neville winning then Zayn vs Neville singles rematch to make up for their garbage last year, where Zayn finally wins. I'd be :done


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just finished the Bret Hart Timeline and I have to say, while not nearly as good as the Vader one (that's the only other one I've seen) I still rather enjoyed it. I just wish guys like Bret and others would realize that as fans of wrestling, we don't want to listen to you pimp yourself for 2 hours or talk down about other guys for 2 hours. Like, I don't want to hear Bret say "Ric Flair just has the same match every single night" and pretend it's a fact. After all, I'm almost positive Bret Hart was one of the guys to popularize the 5 Moves of Doom style in WWE. Ric's cage match with Hunter is nothing like his 2/3 Falls match with Steamboat, which is nothing like his Starrcade match with Vader, which is nothing like his BotB match with Windham, which is NOTHING like his WrestleMania match with Savage. Only in the loosest sense could you ever say those are similar matches. Everyone should be taking notes from Vader and Bam Bam on how to conduct yourself in a shoot interview. Those guys both came off as extremely gracious, humble, and likable and went out of their way not to talk down about other guys. I'd rather listen to guys tell funny stories and discuss guys they DID like working with and why, or if they didn't like working with someone don't slam him and make it all the other guys fault. Bret said "working with Vader was no fun because he was stiff" but didn't add any caveats like "but that's because he honed his craft in Japan and where he was told specifically by promoters to work stiff and get over" or mention that even if Vader was stiff, he was still one hell of a great wrestler who is better than Yokozuna in every way imaginable (and I actually like Yoko, but come on).

Ah hell, now it sounds like I'm slamming the Bret interview. It's still good, and he by no means spends the entire two hours shitting on people or building himself up, it's just something that I thought about several times throughout the timeline.





ATF said:


> LOL WWE.com. That top 50 WWE Title match list should provide you enough laughs ALONE just to prove how worthless their credibility is. Compared to me, that is :side:.
> 
> I can somewhat understand the whole "best Diva match evah~" hype it gets - considering a Divas match of its quality hadn't happened since fucking 2010 and that was on the ever so glourious (sarcasm) 3rd season of NXT lmao) which means not a lot of people have seen it - but, for the love of God, a MOTYC? It would be arguable... if that hideous Figure Four sequence had never happened. But it did. And it took away so much from the match it wasn't even hilarious, it was just sad. And that's to not say depressive.
> 
> But anyway. Do you guys think the WWE is ever going to do a WWE vs NXT live special?


On the "Best Hell in a Cell Matches" Countdown WWE just put on the Network, this is how they ranked the top ones:

1. Mankind vs Taker
2. Triple H vs Taker
3. HBK vs Taker

The list also included Jericho vs Trips OVER Foley vs Trips, and other assorted atrocities. That really tells you all you need to know about their credibility. Hell, on the Ladder match countdown they ranked TLC II at WM 17 the greatest ladder match of all time :lmao



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Spoiler: NXT
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What are your thoughts on Breeze? He never really did much for me at first, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't really enjoy his match with Zayn at Takeover.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Isn't WWE Countdown actually voted by fans? Because Jericho/HHH over Foley/HHH in the HIAC department sounds incredibly stupid enough to have been voted by fans rather than the company itself. TLC II the greatest Ladder match? Well, I'll be the first to say that I actually wouldn't put it far away. Greatest Ladder match ever is either Benoit/Jericho or MITB I, but TLC II would be top 5 for me tbh. Alongside the Triangle Ladder match, TLC I and TLC III. Or Hell No & Ryback/Shield if it actually counts as a Ladder match :lmao

Breeze can be somewhat decent, straight up good if he's in there with the right opponent (as proven in the match with Sami).


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WWE lists. :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> What are your thoughts on Breeze? He never really did much for me at first, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't really enjoy his match with Zayn at Takeover.


Been a fan since his debut. love the character; feel he plays it superbly. Knows what to do in the ring, granted a few of the matches vs Neville fell flat. Ultimately by milking the pace in the end of both affairs, but minus that gripe, I've enjoyed his work overall. Gorgeous spinning wheel kick. I mean, wow. Pinpoint.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What's so bad about picking TLC II as the best ladder match ever? It makes more sense than thinking a storyline about the custody of a child is the pinnacle of wrestling :side:

But in all seriousness, thanks cjack for the summary. I'm not too big on the timelines, but Bret is one of two guys that would get me to watch them (did I ever tell you that Bret was my favorite wrestler ever for 12 years?). That is a very cringy feeling though when wrestlers just dog on other wrestlers to make themselves feel better about themselves. Like you said, we wanna hear cool stories and interesting insight, not your personal opinion on petty matters. I also just watched that Henry/Benoit match that you've always pimped. Glorious.

Zayn vs. Neville last year was GOAT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Nash and Cornette Timelines are still the Gold standard IMO.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> Isn't WWE Countdown actually voted by fans? Because Jericho/HHH over Foley/HHH in the HIAC department sounds incredibly stupid enough to have been voted by fans rather than the company itself. TLC II the greatest Ladder match? Well, I'll be the first to say that I actually wouldn't put it far away. Greatest Ladder match ever is either Benoit/Jericho or MITB I, but TLC II would be top 5 for me tbh. Alongside the Triangle Ladder match, TLC I and TLC III. Or Hell No & Ryback/Shield if it actually counts as a Ladder match :lmao
> 
> Breeze can be somewhat decent, straight up good if he's in there with the right opponent (as proven in the match with Sami).


They claim they are voted on by the fans but I don't buy it. Too many placements seem political, like with that Top 50 Wrestlers Ever DVD they released. Ric Flair was ranked tied for 17th with Dusty Rhodes. I mean come on, Dusty, who is the biggest fan of himself as it is, would never say that he deserves to be tied with Ric for fucking 17th.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Been a fan since his debut. love the character; feel he plays it superbly. Knows what to do in the ring, granted a few of the matches vs Neville fell flat. Ultimately by milking the pace in the end of both affairs, but minus that gripe, I've enjoyed his work overall. Gorgeous spinning wheel kick. I mean, wow. Pinpoint.


I really dig the way he portrays his character too, it just clicked with me when watching that Zayn match. That Zoolander "Magnum" face he makes is just priceless.



funnyfaces1 said:


> What's so bad about picking TLC II as the best ladder match ever? It makes more sense than thinking a storyline about the custody of a child is the pinnacle of wrestling :side:
> 
> But in all seriousness, thanks cjack for the summary. I'm not too big on the timelines, but Bret is one of two guys that would get me to watch them (did I ever tell you that Bret was my favorite wrestler ever for 12 years?). That is a very cringy feeling though when wrestlers just dog on other wrestlers to make themselves feel better about themselves. Like you said, we wanna hear cool stories and interesting insight, not your personal opinion on petty matters. I also just watched that Henry/Benoit match that you've always pimped. Glorious.
> 
> Zayn vs. Neville last year was GOAT.


I wouldn't say it's the pinnacle of wrestling, but it surely was the pinnacle of the greatest heel character I've ever seen portrayed, which makes the outlandish ness of the storyline irrelevant once they hook up. Plus, no child custody storyline = no transcendent Eddie Guerrero performance at GAB, because the way he used that kid in that match was perfection in every way. 

Bret is one of my all time favorites still to this day, so I was gonna enjoy his Timeline regardless, but I do feel he has a habit of going into business for himself in both his book (which I loved and have read 3 times cover to cover) and in his interviews. I wonder if his stroke caused him to just be a little less self aware than the average person? I mean how much self awareness can he really have if he made a conscious decision to show up to Raw for his first time back in 2009 wearing those HIDEOUS jorts? Those things made even Cena blush.

And yes, Henry/Benoit on Smackdown with Three 6 Mafia playing Henry to the ring = GOLDEN. Love love love the finish too, that's how you fucking do a DQ to get a guy over strong without making another guy look weak.



The Fab Four said:


> Nash and Cornette Timelines are still the Gold standard IMO.


Which years did Cornette and Nash do?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Which years did Cornette and Nash do?


Nash did 1995 and Cornette did 1997. Both still the best ones.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cornette making WWF '97 into Smoky Mountain Wrestling? but a bit better b/c it would have included Undertaker, Mankind, Austin & Vader.

plz tell me he did


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Cornette '97 timeline is so incredible. Love listening to that man bitch about Dunn and Russo.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

BREEZE is the man, my type of superstar

Need to listen to bret's shoot myself, even though I kinda dont. I NEED to see those two finlay matches w/ the GOATS posted on the page before this


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

WWE came through in the clutch at least booking Finlay vs Undertaker & Cena during his stint w/the company. Everything else is simply spoiling me.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gotta love those one off random tv matches w/ big stars that end up being the only time they had a singles match


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

While it's great that they used Finlay correctly for a bit and put him in some great matches against the likes of Taker, Benoit, Rey and Cena - there are still some matches that never happened but I wish had happened. Finlay vs Orton in 2006, vs HBK, vs Angle just to name a few could've been excellent matches.

Finished 5 rounds of Ironman matches for this year by watching Lesnar vs Angle for the third time.  Not quite as strong in holding up as it did before because there are parts where time is blatantly killed by exiting the ring and moving around slowly but it's a minor issue and works in the context of the story. Heel tactics by Brock are top notch and make it a classic.

For Ironman matches now, I'd rank them like this: Brock vs Angle > Rock vs HHH > Benoit vs HHH = Orton vs Cena >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bret vs HBK

And I've spent the last few days watching the Angle vs Lesnar series so I might as well get through this too. SummerSlam > Ironman > Wrestlemania XIX

I saw Henry vs Benoit also mentioned a few pages ago and that's another match I rewatched a couple of days ago. I wish it had gotten 5 more minutes but for what it got, they did everything they could. Excellent underdog performance by Benoit and Mizark does what he does best as a MONSTAH!

Been having a blast going through some classic matches at random in the recent weeks after little to no wrestling for months. Next up: Mysterio vs Orton from No Way Out and Raw 1997 from MSG with Cactus Jack vs Triple H in a street fight.


----------



## rjsbx1 (Jul 16, 2011)

*Angle-HBK from that Homecoming Raw in 05(I think?) is also a pretty decent Ironmatch too. From what I recalled I think it ended pretty disappointingly and indecisively though...but it's still HBK's best Ironmatch (much shade to that ZZZ-fest w/ Bret) *


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'd call Finlay not working vs Shawn or Angle a defining positive, actually.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

The only thing I would have looked forward to with a Finlay/Michaels or Angle match is that Finlay isn't afraid to take most of the match. I think it was the match with Savage in 1996 that I first noticed it. Savage was one of the biggest stars in history, Finlay was new to WCW - and wasn't a guy in line for a major push - yet controls the majority of the match.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Shawn's ego to allow that would be amazing. But the thought of seeing him get potatoed does look great in my head.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Michaels likes to make a comeback, so he'd at least be willing to work from underneath. Problem would be Finlay trying to make his putrid offense look good. Ah, hell, he's Finlay, he can do it.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Angle vs Shawn from Homecoming is pretty poor. If anyone thinks their WM or Vengeance matches are bad (I don't btw), the 30 minute ironman is even worse.

My difference in opinion regarding Angle and Shawn aside, I don't see a match not happening as a positive EVER. Not even if it's a disaster on paper, which no Finlay match can ever be.

Rock and NOD opening this Raw from MSG. :mark: "WE ARE THE NATION.... OF DOMINATION!" :thecause


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Kane vs Umaga from UF 06 is a really nice big man brawl, just for note.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Choke2Death said:


> Bro, you focus _way too much_ on the finish.  I'm a bigger Orton fan and don't mind the finish for either the I Quit or SummerSlam 2007 matches!
> 
> If the finish was the be all end all for match quality, then Brock vs Cena would've been a certified DUD.


I'm sorry man, but if you shit on all the work they've done for 15-20 minutes by winning with the most sudden weak ass move like an FU, I just can't do it. It makes me so mad. If it was an actual believable move, I wouldn't mind it, a la Punk/JBL. A blast to the head with a steel chain and an AA on the steps is completely ok. A random FU out of nowhere however is not.  I don't remember the exact finish to their I Quit match (I don't remember how Cena sets up for the STF with the handcuffs exactly) but it bothered me when I watched it. Oh well, finishes bother me.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

It's one thing to take away small points from a match for the finish but it's another to say the match isn't as good just because you didn't like the finish. Just a bit excessive imo. And I don't know what your opinion on Cena is, but I'd only expect his biggest haters to put down a match just because he won with one "weak" move.

Just witnessed Austin giving Vince the stunner for the first time. That pop it got was fucking awesome! :lol


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

I know I take the piss out of this thread (and rightly so), but Nasty Boys vs. Hart Foundation @ Wrestlemania Vii.

Made me realise how much great sellers that Knobbs and Saggs were. They were AWESOME. They just flew around the place and didn't give a fuck. Especially when Anvil was around. In the end Jimmy Hart hits the Harts with the helmet and the Nastys win. Fully deserved in my book.

FULLY NASTY YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

This match has so much interference it is not even funny. It is just ridiculous. Besides, who in their right mind thought Maven would go over HHH?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I wouldn't call myself a Cena hater. I'm far too big a fan of a ton of his matches to say that. I however am a hater of the 'AA out of nowhere' finishes, especially when they have no merit whatsoever and make everything else that's happened in the match meaningless. Which it has SEVERAL times. If a match has a finish that I hate, I usually drop a quarter or a half star. Nothing crazy. I didn't think the work in the Summerslam '07 match specifically was anything too great (I loved that they let Orton control 80% of it though), then the finish just dropped it to average.


----------



## sharkboy22 (Feb 13, 2010)

That HHH/Maven match is all sorts of excitement.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Michaels/Angle at Homecoming was terrible, just like all but one thing on that awful show. Epitome of what made the mid-2000s the time to leave WWE for independent wrestling. Finlay/Michaels and Finlay/Angle (there is no way this never happened) do sound intriguing. Yes, Michaels has shitty punches, but I do like the jabs and those mounted punches that he did after doing a hurricanrana in his pre-2002 run.

HHH/Maven was not bad. Now HHH/Tajiri from 2004. That was disappointing. And it wasn't Triple H's fault. Tajiri just didn't do a good job of playing that underdog babyface. Instead, he actually got the crowd to turn on him.

Orton/Angle from One Night Stand was fun. Hopefully their Vengeance match is good.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Michaels/Angle at Homecoming was terrible, just like all but one thing on that awful show. Epitome of what made the mid-2000s the time to leave WWE for independent wrestling. Finlay/Michaels and Finlay/Angle (there is no way this never happened) do sound intriguing. Yes, Michaels has shitty punches, but I do like the jabs and those mounted punches that he did after doing a hurricanrana in his pre-2002 run.
> 
> *HHH/Maven was not bad. Now HHH/Tajiri from 2004. That was disappointing. And it wasn't Triple H's fault. Tajiri just didn't do a good job of playing that underdog babyface. Instead, he actually got the crowd to turn on him.*
> 
> Orton/Angle from One Night Stand was fun. Hopefully their Vengeance match is good.


I'd give HHH v. Maven ** 3/4, it was fun, but it got extremely ridiculous as it went along. Not bad, just not that good either. Tajiri v. HHH sounds good on paper, but it just didn't do the job. I don't remember being fond of it on last watch.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Michaels/Angle at Homecoming was terrible, just like all but one thing on that awful show.


And what was that? I could think of numerous good stuff on that show. Orton killing Foley and Piper, HHH destroying Flair (and closing it off with the too hilarious "Limousine riding, jet flying piece of crap", lol), Edge vs Matt Hardy was good and there's other stuff I probably forgot.

Cactus Jack vs Hunter Hearst Helmsely turned out to be absolutely awesome. No surprises there and until I rewatch their 2000 street fight, I consider this to be superior. With 1997 almost over, I'm excited heading into 98 to see more of Austin and Rock!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Honey Bucket said:


> I know I take the piss out of this thread (and rightly so), but Nasty Boys vs. Hart Foundation @ Wrestlemania Vii.
> 
> Made me realise how much great sellers that Knobbs and Saggs were. They were AWESOME. They just flew around the place and didn't give a fuck. Especially when Anvil was around. In the end Jimmy Hart hits the Harts with the helmet and the Nastys win. Fully deserved in my book.
> 
> FULLY NASTY YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


No fake, that match rules. Nastys in a nutshell are often underrated.



King Kai Guy said:


> This match has so much interference it is not even funny. It is just ridiculous. Besides, who in their right mind thought Maven would go over HHH?


DUD

WWE was inspired by WCW in this match & TNA got inspired by WWE from this crap. _(not really, but go w/the full circle joke)_


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Trips/Cena/Edge, Backlash 2006 - ****** of FUN. Dat blade job. :mark:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I spent about 5 minutes yesterday staring at my 2006 PPV DVD collection trying to decide which show to watch first. Ended up not bothering :lmao. All the ones I really like from that year are mainly SD ones, and even though it's a few years now since I watched them all, I can still remember pretty much everything from all of them, and it's making me want to put off watching them for a little longer so they aren't as "fresh" in my mind. So I look at what I'm left with, which is essentially the second half of the Raw PPV's for that year... and I just have little to no interest in sitting through them atm :lmao. I looked at Unforgiven, and groaned at most of the card (in a bad way lol) then put it back. Guess I'll just get on with other things and get back to my rambles in a few weeks .


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

HEY CAL YOU SHOULD WATCH BACKLASH 2006?


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Oh shit, Backlash 06! Dat jackknife pin finish.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Starbuck said:


> HEY CAL YOU SHOULD WATCH BACKLASH 2006?


Seen it even more recently than the SD shows .


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Watch random matches from RAW circa '04 that isn't the bad one posted recently itt. You know, from the year that brand was openly superior to the other. Smackdown sucked that year b/c Undertaker hardly worked. I like that nobody can actually deny me this from being truth.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

SmackDown had Eddie in 04, RAW didn't. RAW had Eugene in 04, SmackDown didn't. That's pretty much all I have.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Undertaker hardly worked and when he did it really wasn't much to talk about either unless he was in the ring with JBL. Which is, I guess, 80% of his entire 2004 stint.  Don't forget Eddie Guerrero either, he TRIED to make SD in 2004 worth it. Too bad that year was all about Raw baby. Chris Benoit made a hell of a difference - SD in 2003 was the GOAT, goes to Raw in 04 and turns THAT the GOAT.



Honey Bucket said:


> I know I take the piss out of this thread (and rightly so), but Nasty Boys vs. Hart Foundation @ Wrestlemania Vii.
> 
> Made me realise how much great sellers that Knobbs and Saggs were. They were AWESOME. They just flew around the place and didn't give a fuck. Especially when Anvil was around. In the end Jimmy Hart hits the Harts with the helmet and the Nastys win. Fully deserved in my book.
> 
> FULLY NASTY YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH


You sir are a good and cult man. That match is fucking awesome. (Y)

Though not as good as Rockers/Haku & Barbarian from the same night, though, but still awesome.

Why don't we discuss WM 7 more? Why for the love of Christ's sake? That's one of the best WrestleMania's ever, GODDAMMIT. And no funnyfaces - the masterpiece known as Savage/Warrior is not worse than their SummerSlam match. At least I refuse to saying so.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching an episode of Nitro from '96. Heenan called Meng 'Haku'  (by accident of course). Later in the broadcast, Bischoff had to mention that Meng is not associated with the WWF etc. 

lol lawsuit.

Moving onto Fall Brawl '96 now.

Oh and Warrior/Savage WMVII>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SS'92.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Crummy97 said:


> SmackDown had Eddie in 04, RAW didn't. RAW had Eugene in 04, SmackDown didn't. That's pretty much all I have.


Yes, b/c Eddie & Eugene were the flag-bearers of their respective brands during that year. 8*D


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Scotty 2 Hotty vs Dean Malenko: Backlash 2000. I don't even want to type out all my thoughts about it. Just go watch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm sure pretty much everyone in this board has seen Malenko/S2H at least once, no shit it's a great undercard match. Curse that (at points) iffy selling by Scotty though.

If we're gonna talk about must watch gems from 2000, everybody go watch E&C/Hardys from Unforgiven. As in the Cage match. That fucking rules.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yes, b/c Eddie & Eugene were the flag-bearers of their respective brands during that year. 8*D


Maybe not flag bearers, but there was certainly more Eugene than I'd like to remember.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'm sure pretty much everyone in this board has seen Malenko/S2H at least once, no shit it's a great undercard match. Curse that (at points) iffy selling by Scotty though.
> 
> If we're gonna talk about must watch gems from 2000, everybody go watch E&C/Hardys from Unforgiven. As in the Cage match. That fucking rules.


I'd say both are rather skippable. Malenko vs Scott didn't hold up how I once felt it did. Hate that whole _"if one person leaves the cage the match still continues"_ gag unless done well. Which that match didn't do. 

Jericho vs X-Pac is something from Unforgiven I'd give a rec for over the Cage, for example.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> If we're gonna talk about must watch gems from 2000, everybody go watch E&C/Hardys from Unforgiven. As in the Cage match. That fucking rules.


And watch their ladder match from Raw too, around the same time. Was the first Raw on Spike I believe. Also might have been when Stephanie took over creative. Was a definite noticeable change from then on with the shows that I picked up on before I even knew a change was made. But yeah, the ladder match. Good shit. Think they actually put it on the second ladder match set too.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Hate that whole _"if one person leaves the cage the match still continues"_ gag unless done well


That stipulation was on the match for the sake of one spot, too. I did enjoy that match for the most part though. It loses a little bit of its luster without seeing the Hardyz entire quest for the titles.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> I'd say both are rather skippable. Malenko vs Scott didn't hold up how I once felt it did. *Hate that whole "if one person leaves the cage the match still continues" gag unless done well. Which that match didn't do.*
> 
> Jericho vs X-Pac is something from Unforgiven I'd give a rec for over the Cage, for example.


How not? Sure enough, the first few moments of Jeff on the outside with not doing anything to help his brother when it's NO FUCKING DQ were kinda stupid, and the way Jeff left the cage in the first place didn't really feel right either. But otherwise, they implemented the HATE~ pretty well and the whole "one person out and the match is still going" did allow the Matt vs both E&C story to be played out, and it was played out pretty awesomely imho. Matt had one of imo his most sympathetic performances ever with the beatdown he was taking. Also, Jeff took one of his craziest bumps ever. It's not Umaga WitW off the cage good, but it's close.

Good call w/Jericho/X-Pac though. DAT HATE~.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

ATF said:


> Undertaker hardly worked and when he did it really wasn't much to talk about either unless he was in the ring with JBL. Which is, I guess, 80% of his entire 2004 stint.


John Cena says hi.  :wink smiley suppose to be here but i don't know the code stupid me:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, I completely forgot Taker even wrestled Cena in 04, only remembered their 03 one, and that was only one match anyway. JBL and ONE match with Cena were Taker's good stuff that year. And SVS against Heidenreich (even if Cal's rating for it is the epitome of overrating). Don't remember anything else.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

Orton/Angle 06' rating. (Vengeance?)

Remember it being pretty good.

Was searching for Orton/Benoit best of five from 06' and could find only the No Holds Barred. Miss "Burn in my Light" so much.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW Fall Brawl 1996:*

*Diamond Dallas Page vs. Chavo Guerrero* **3/4
*Ice Train vs. Scott Norton* 3/4*
*Konnan vs. Juventud Guerrera* **
*Chris Benoit vs. Chris Jericho* ***3/4
*Super Calo vs. Rey Mysterio* ***1/2
*Harlem Heat vs. Nasty Boys* ***
*Randy Savage vs. The Giant* *1/2
*War Games: Team NWO vs. Team WCW* ***1/2

Loved Benoit/Jericho, and liked Mysterio/Calo. War Games was actually ok, but it was all about the ending really. Liked the opener more than i thought i would, but the feud was alright going into it so, and i kinda enjoyed the tag match TBH, crowd were super hot for it too.

Not sure when DDP turnded face, but as a heel the Diamond Cutter was so over, they had no choice TBH.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

ATF said:


> Well, I completely forgot Taker even wrestled Cena in 04, only remembered their 03 one, and that was only one match anyway. JBL and ONE match with Cena were Taker's good stuff that year. And SVS against Heidenreich (even if Cal's rating for it is the epitome of overrating). Don't remember anything else.


Hey! I NEVER overrate anything involving The Undertaker :side:.

Undertaker actually wrestled in 04 more than even I remembered. Guy had SIX PPV matches (Kane, Booker T, Dudley Boys, JBL, JBL, Eddie/Booker/JBL) and 8 TV matches (Booker T, Cena, Orlando, Orlando, Gangrel/Viscera, JBL/Orlando, w/Eddie & Booker Vs JBL/Orlando/Bashams, Heidenreich).

Not saying he had good matches all year, just a lot more than I thought he did .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Cena from SD 2004 is excellent:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Rey Mysterio vs Super Calo FB 96' is absolutely where its at. Love that match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Hey! *I NEVER overrate anything involving The Undertaker* :side:.
> 
> Undertaker actually wrestled in 04 more than even I remembered. Guy had SIX PPV matches (Kane, Booker T, Dudley Boys, JBL, JBL, Eddie/Booker/JBL) and 8 TV matches (Booker T, Cena, Orlando, Orlando, Gangrel/Viscera, JBL/Orlando, w/Eddie & Booker Vs JBL/Orlando/Bashams, Heidenreich).
> 
> Not saying he had good matches all year, just a lot more than I thought he did .


*The Undertaker Vs Steve Austin – Special Referee Ric Flair – #1 Contenders Match
Rating: ****
CAL SCALE - 5*

Need I say more? 8*D 

Anyway, he wrestled OJ twice? Poor Taker. Poor, poor Taker. Which makes me think - why was Rebellion 2000 the only singles match on PPV between Taker and the one man to give OJ his only really good match (Orton match was good too but not REALLY good imo)? WHY, WWE?!  - though it was a pretty good match.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Wouldn't even really call Rebellion 2000 a PPV match . Whole thing was just a live House Show essentially . I guess it's better we got that and 2 TV matches than nothing. Right? 

Might likely would have happened at some point on a big stage, had Benoit not fucked it all up :side:. He didn't think it through did he?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Glacier. :lol Was the Mortal Kombat movie out around this time?

Sting just walked out of Nitro, Crow turn incoming. :mark:


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Technically Rebellion 2000 WAS a PPV - UK exclusive but still. Probably the best UK exclusive PPV ever tbh - One Night Only wasn't exclusive, nor was SummerSlam '92, therefore Rebellion '00 wins. 

But yeah, it's always better than nothing in that case. Like Eddie's case. Or REGAL's case. Yes, Regal never faced Taker outside of house shows.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Taker/Regal happened? :|


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

In house shows, yes. 2001/02 I believe. Televised, nope. Massive shame. Massive shame.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> In house shows, yes. 2001/02 I believe. Televised, nope. Massive shame. Massive shame.


Found two dates here:

http://www.phenom.estranky.cz/clanky/house-show-match-history-part-.html

Date: November 10th, Cleveland, Ohio
Result: Def. William Regal

Date: November 11th, Hartford, Connecticut
Result: Def. William Regal

One went 7 minutes: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=28992


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> Found two dates here:
> 
> http://www.phenom.estranky.cz/clanky/house-show-match-history-part-.html
> 
> ...


Even though you did the research, if you _really_ wanted a Taker/Regal fix, they competed against each other in a handicap match on the December 28, 2000 Smackdown.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I know Yeah mentioned something about Japan, but did Goldust and Benoit ever work a singles match? Google doesn't seem to bring any link up.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I like this as a short little TV match between the champ and a virtual jobber. This how interference should be done if it's going to be extreme, NOT like that Maven v. HHH match (which on rewatch dropped to a 1/4 * for EXTREME BOTCHAGE). This also showcases HHH's skills as a heel.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

In the mood for some multi-man wars. Something akin to Funk/Dreamer/Beulah vs. Edge/Foley/Lita, which I just watched. Is there even anything like that match in existence? Closest thing off the top of my head is Shield vs. Kane/Bryan/Ryback.

Unpopular opinion: Funk/Dreamer/Beulah vs. Edge/Foley/Lita is better than the Funk/Flair matches.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Uhhh... the WarGames matches. 

If not, you can always try the Invasion 2001 Main Event as well.


----------



## Biblet2014 (Jul 11, 2014)

Hi I have a question about Highspots.com (If this is the right thread to post it on) is it secure to buy stuff off of it?


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Biblet2014 said:


> Hi I have a question about Highspots.com (If this is the right thread to post it on) is it secure to buy stuff off of it?


Highspots is perfectly safe.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Not really the right thread but Highspots is totally safe to buy from. I've been making orders with them for years and I've never had any problems. 

They are heavily involved in independent wrestling, they ran Wrestlecon the last few years over Wrestlemania weekend and are involved in all sorts of other stuff. 

So yeah no worries about them at all. Only complaint I've ever heard is that they charge a lot for shipping if you live outside the US.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Mr. Jay-LK said:


> Orton/Angle 06' rating. (Vengeance?)
> 
> Remember it being pretty good.
> 
> Was searching for Orton/Benoit best of five from 06' and could find only the No Holds Barred. Miss "Burn in my Light" so much.


Vengeance match is good although it could've been even better had Angle not worked with injuries at the time.

And which of the best of _seven_ matches are you looking for? If it's the best one from 13/1, I'm sure it's up on dailymotion.

Here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1c1zxl_randy-orton-vs-chris-benoit-smackdown-13-01-2006_sport



#ROOT said:


> Might likely would have happened at some point on a big stage, had Benoit not fucked it all up :side:. He didn't think it through did he?


Eh, can't really blame Benoit for this one not happening. They had YEARS and YEARS to give them 20 minutes on TV or PPV and never did it. This one's on WWE. And I highly doubt it would've happened had Benoit lived another year or two as the ECW draft only promised him going further down the card. If they didn't make the match when they were on the same brand, what makes you think being on separate brands would've helped the cause?


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

^It was a best of seven? Yikes, my memory is bad. The entire lot, but the best match from the series would do just as good.

Booker T's favor up in smoke, hope that doesn't happen to Orton's rematch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Guys, it seems that this forum is starting to get down w/an anti-Austin movement. Which is starting to make itself bigger in that Steve Austin On If He's A Bigger Legend Than Hogan thread. Could somebody give me a little help there? Because I may get busted by several marks for defending Austin there. Please?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fuck mark wars.



Spoiler: a spoiler



Austin is GOAT


----------



## Goku (Feb 25, 2007)

Flair is GOAT


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

My personal belief is that Steve Austin is the biggest star in the history of wrestling, with Hogan and Rock tied for a close second, and then there is a massive, gaping chasm before we reach the next biggest star. So any of those 3 guys is a defensible answer for who was the biggest star, and it's absolutely pointless to waste time arguing with a bunch of dudes whose collective IQ probably doesn't crack 70. Just stick to this thread, every time I post in the General section I end up regretting it.

Speaking of Steve, I think it's time to rewatch Austin vs Undertaker Judgement Day 2001. Been a while.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Femto said:


> Flair is GOAT


x2


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Speaking of Steve, I think it's time to rewatch Austin vs Undertaker Judgement Day 2001. Been a while.


I really enjoyed that match, but every time I think of it I can only remember how hard I laughed at Kane coming out of the curtain while Austin already had a 2 count on Taker.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> My personal belief is that Steve Austin is the biggest star in the history of wrestling, with Hogan and Rock tied for a close second, and then there is a massive, gaping chasm before we reach the next biggest star. So any of those 3 guys is a defensible answer for who was the biggest star, and it's absolutely pointless to waste time arguing with a bunch of dudes whose collective IQ probably doesn't crack 70. Just stick to this thread, every time I post in the General section I end up regretting it.
> 
> Speaking of Steve, I think it's time to rewatch Austin vs Undertaker Judgement Day 2001. Been a while.


Now I wish I hadn't posted in that thread. I said in that thread that, because I find him a better wrestler, talker and character personally, I believe Austin to be better than Hogan. Some idiot mark red repped that post, claiming "I was butthurt by the truth". Then I messaged him about how it was my personal opinion and he could fuck off, and he says "nobody gives a shit about your personal opinion". fpalm xInfinity. If this is what the internet has to offer, then my God how do you folks from this board even exist?

Sigh. Anyway, I think I'm gonna rewatch the Invasion 2001 Main Event I recommended ff. So much fun on last watch.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Welp, Austin/Taker Judgement Day 2001 was even better than I remembered ****. Great, physical brawling to start the match, a solid if unspectacular control segment by Austin, and then a completely molten closing stretch with Austin, Trips, and Vince all taking turns stooping for Taker and doing a splendid job of looking like a bunch of bumbling buffoons. Shame Kane came out late, cause he got one hell of a pop when his music finally hit. 

C2D- I just saw your post where you mention you watched the Hunter/Cactus Jack FCA match from Raw 1997 and how you liked it even more than their classic street fight at the Royal Rumble. Can't say I agree that it's better, but man that FCA match is still absolutely awesome and it hasn't gotten old even after 7-8 rewatches since it originally aired. Probably would crack my top 5 for best Raw matches ever. Did you get goosebumps in the end of the intro video where Foley goes "HES ALIVE! HES ALIVE! Helmsley, this might be the darkest day of your life, cause it's Madison Square Garden, and Missus Foley's baby boy, has finally come home! BANG BANG!" Followed by that Road Warriors pop that Foley got? I don't know about you, but that gets me every single time. Chills run up my spine. That whole thing was just sheer brilliance. Foley comes limping out and proceeds to lay waste to Hunter for 15 minutes or so culminating in that gorgeous stump pile driver through a table. Doesn't get much better than that, folks.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nah, nothing like that. Thought it was cool and the match delivered like I expected it to. But nothing other than that since I don't mark for Foley like you do.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just found this, hadn't seen it before. Pretty damn good match, though obviously not nearly as good as their Smackdown matches from 2003 and 2006 or No Way Out 2006. Although I doubt this link will stay up for long, something tells me once Cal realizes this video contains evidence that Taker did in fact tap out in his career he might have it mysteriously destroyed 

Kurt Angle vs The Undertaker Smackdown 7/4/02

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xavts0_smackdown-04-07-2002-undertaker-vs_sport


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Can't believe you hadn't ever watched the match where Taker taps out for the only time in his career, Chris. It's one damn good match, definitely not on their SD 03 or NWO bouts (it'd have to be a damn near perfect match for that, though), but still high up there. 

Also, speaking of damn good matches that (annoyingly) have Kurt Angle in them, how come we don't talk about JBL/Show/Angle more often? That's gotta be one of the best and funnest 3-ways ever.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Also, speaking of damn good matches that (annoyingly) have Kurt Angle in them, how come we don't talk about JBL/Show/Angle more often? That's gotta be one of the best and funnest 3-ways ever.


We talk about that match all the time, and I seem to be the only one that realizes that it's just an okay match (**3/4). Most of it was just "meh" to me with no reason to care about anything that happened. Best part was Big Show's spear. And this isn't just anti-2005 speech from me either. The real triple threat match that we should be talking about is the Taboo Tuesday 2005 main event. Or Del Rio vs. Punk vs. Mysterio. Or Edge vs. HHH vs. Benoit. Or Punk vs. Hardy vs. Edge. See, it's not that hard to find far better triple threat matches that never get talked about here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I have a very different definition of "all the time", because I never notice that match get regularly talked, let alone "all the time", ff. :lol

Taboo Tuesday '05 Main Event is nothing more than decent btw. Good namedrops other than that. WGTT/Guerreros/Benoit & Rhyno and Batista/Finlay/Booker also deserve more attention. And even though it's relatively well known, Cena/HHH/Edge should get more recognition too. That's one violent Triple Threat.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Just finished up WM22 and while I know next to nothing about appropriate star ratings, I thought I'd give this one a shot.

Big Show and Kane vs. Carlito and Chris Masters - ** 1/2

Rob Van Dam vs. Shelton Benjamin vs. Ric Flair vs. Finlay vs. Matt Hardy vs. Bobby Lashley - *** 1/2

John “Bradshaw” Layfield (w/ Jillian Hall) vs. Chris Benoit - ***

Edge (w/ Lita) vs. Mick Foley - **** 1/4

The Boogeyman vs. Booker T and Sharmell - ** 1/4

Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus - ***

The Undertaker vs. Mark Henry - ***

Shawn Michaels vs. Vince McMahon - *** 3/4

Rey Mysterio vs. Randy Orton vs. Kurt Angle - *** 1/2

Torrie Wilson vs. Candice Michelle - NO

John Cena vs. Triple H - *** 3/4


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Anyone have a fatal 4 way they could recommend? I'm a big fan of that match structure, basically 2 singles matches in one ring. I've seen the ones from No Way Out 01 and Backlash 07 though.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Show v. JBL v. Angle is alright, like *** at most, ** 1/2 at least. Like funnyfaces said, it is kinda "meh" for the most part.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Crummy97 said:


> Anyone have a fatal 4 way they could recommend? I'm a big fan of that match structure, basically 2 singles matches in one ring. I've seen the ones from No Way Out 01 and Backlash 07 though.


This isn't a "Fatal 4-way", it's even better: Steve Austin vs Undertaker vs Vader vs Bret Hart from In Your House: Final Four. Blows every other 4 man match out of the water, and is structured as 2 singles matches going at one time. Its an over the top rope elimination match, no pinfalls, no submissions. You won't be sorry yon watched it.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

ATF said:


> Guys, it seems that this forum is starting to get down w/an anti-Austin movement. Which is starting to make itself bigger in that Steve Austin On If He's A Bigger Legend Than Hogan thread. Could somebody give me a little help there? Because I may get busted by several marks for defending Austin there. Please?


I'm almost willing to bet they were listening to Austin's podcasts or something and he said something they didn't like so they're now down-playing him. Happened with Bret Hart. He says one thing is 4/10 and people let that affect how good a wrestler he was (also Taker/HHH from WM28 is worse than a 4/10). There are people who are literally defending Scott Hall for not signing a dying kid's card all because Hart said something about it. Apparently not giving a signature to a sick kid is OK, but saying ''this wrestler wasn't all that good'' is much, much worse. Honestly, I tend to read some of those threads when I'm bored, but they're mostly putrid poison cesspools. Not worth a couple of left clicks and a scroll of a mouse.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> In the mood for some multi-man wars. Something akin to Funk/Dreamer/Beulah vs. Edge/Foley/Lita, which I just watched. Is there even anything like that match in existence? Closest thing off the top of my head is Shield vs. Kane/Bryan/Ryback.
> 
> Unpopular opinion: Funk/Dreamer/Beulah vs. Edge/Foley/Lita is better than the Funk/Flair matches.


Can I recommend ROH? If so, No Remorse Corps & Matt Sydal vs. The Resilience & Delirious from Death Before Dishonor V Night 2. Fucking GREAT 8-man war. I'm not coming up with much from the 'E.



Biblet2014 said:


> Hi I have a question about Highspots.com (If this is the right thread to post it on) is it secure to buy stuff off of it?


Sure is.



Crummy97 said:


> Anyone have a fatal 4 way they could recommend? I'm a big fan of that match structure, basically 2 singles matches in one ring. I've seen the ones from No Way Out 01 and Backlash 07 though.


Big Show vs. Ziggler vs. Cody Rhodes vs. McIntyre - Smackdown 2011

There's also another good from RAW at the end of 2011 I believe called the Trending Superstar of the Year 4-way. I wanna say it was Ziggler vs. Bryan vs. Rhodes vs... I don't remember the last guy.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ryder :lmao


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lol

Explains why I forgot.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I just watched the Austin/Taker/Vader/Bret match. It was okay. I thought it was just a few spots with pointless brawling in between, more of a "how many ways can we beat the shit out of Vader?" segment than a WWF Title match. Speaking of Vader, that fucking cut on his eye. Ouch.

I'll try to check out the two from 2011. I was sold at Ziggler, Bryan and Rhodes in the same match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You may be the only person to post in this thread that isn't a fan of the Final Four match.  That shit was good.

------------

Probably gonna skip over 2006 and 2005 for my Summerslam watchings. Nothing I really wanna see again from '06 right now and everything from '05 is relatively fresh in my head. Considering watching 2002-2004 all as complete shows. Haven't seen any of them in years outside of HHH/HBK Non Sanctioned.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

First two shows rule, but '04 is yuck city minus the rad Taker vs JBL match. 

Been wanting to rewatch SummerSlam 2012 again b/c I recently got it. Decent show & nothing more is how I remember it. Been worse events for the PPV franchise.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Marijuana match between RVD and Big Show is actually really good. Big Show as the big obstacle with a good babyface is a nearly foolproof formula. And I must be the only person here that actually enjoys The Sandman. Shitty wrestler, but fun character. Anyone see the hilarious video of him screwing up a match against Mick Foley?

I like Summerslam 2012. Nearly everything on that show was at least good. Del Rio vs. Sheamus really surprised me. Punk/Show/Cena was very good. Huge fan of the opener. Bryan/Kane is also very good. And decent enough main event. Most importantly, no Randy Orton.

There was another fatal four way in 2011 worth looking into. I think it was Orton vs. Bryan vs. Rhodes vs. Barrett. Bryan looked great in it. Smackdown in late 2011. Lots of fun. :henry1


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Only match I liked was Kane vs Danielson on the first watch. Triple Threat is the one where I really need to see it again b/c on paper it looks like something I should find fun b/c how much I love all three. But I only remember a shenanigan finish w/AJ and was like meh.


----------



## xdoomsayerx (Jun 23, 2012)

Decided to re watch an event I attended. Threw on Night of Champions 2010 for the hell of it. 

Ziggler/Kofi: **1/2
Punk/Show: *
Miz/Bryan: ***3/4
Kane/Taker: ***1/2
6 pac challenge: ***1/2

Maybe Mizs best match? Awesome one here, thought Kane/Taker was a fun slugfest, 6 pack challenge was FUN and DIFFERENT. Ortons pop when he won the title was HUGE. Skipped the divas and tag turmoil.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watched Summerslam 2012 again in full last year. Really solid show top to bottom. Only problem for me is the main event. Bores me more every time. WWE Title match is really good up until the restart. Love the opener and had fun with Miz/Mysterio. Sheamus/Del Rio was good stuff but the finish really made me scratch my head.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Finished Ziggler vs Bryan vs Rhodes vs Ryder from the 2011 Slammys. REALLY fun match. The pin sequences were good, there were no gaps in the action, and the false finishes were awesome. If I could have one gripe about it, it'd be that there weren't enough multi-man moves.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I didn't like Jericho vs Dolph at all. Remember being like "this sucks" :lol But look who is in it. I'm not surprised.

was the most bummed by Mysterio vs Miz though. Actually cared to see it & it sucked. Miz w/that damn chinlock/headlock taking up most of the match and it wasn't even used well. Just there to kill time. Their WWE Championship match will live forever though.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Probably gonna skip over 2006 and 2005 for my Summerslam watchings. Nothing I really wanna see again from '06 right now and everything from '05 is relatively fresh in my head. Considering watching 2002-2004 all as complete shows. Haven't seen any of them in years outside of HHH/HBK Non Sanctioned.


You shouldn't skip 2006. Nothing on it is really, really good other than maybe Flair/Foley but it's consistently enjoyable from what I recall. Hogan/Orton, Flair/Foley, Cena/Edge were all good. Didn't mind Big Show/Sabu either, that table botch was kinda hilarious. :lol

2004-2002 vary in quality. 2004 is a one match show with the main event being the only real standout. 2003 has a classic Brock/Angle match, a good chamber and some good undercard stuff, but only the US Title match is really good. 2002 is possibly the greatest PPV ever!



funnyfaces1 said:


> Most importantly, no Randy Orton.
> 
> There was another fatal four way in 2011 worth looking into. I think it was Orton vs. Bryan vs. Rhodes vs. Barrett. Bryan looked great in it.


That right there describes late 2012 for me in a nutshell. That time period is just depressing to even think about.  Haven't seen SS 2012 in full other than 3 matches and I doubt I ever will.

You took that fatal four way mention away from me as it was on my mind when I first saw the F4W discussion coming up! I remember being excited when reading the spoilers since it was the first ever interaction between Orton and Bryan. If you had asked me then if they would main event WM together in a few years, I would've laughed about it non-stop.

Other four ways worth looking into:

Benoit vs Eddie vs Tajiri vs Rhyno - SummerSlam 03
Orton vs Cena vs HHH vs Big Show - Raw 09 (been meaning to rewatch this)
Booker vs Batista vs Finlay vs Lashley - No Mercy 06
Batista vs Mysterio vs Undertaker vs Punk - Bragging Rights 09


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I may watch Cena/Edge from '06, but that's really the only thing I'm too interested in right now. Remember DX/McMahons being really fun but I've never cared for Orton/Hogan. Hardly recall Hogan being able to move.  REALLY looking forward to '02 and '03 again. Two of my childhood favorites.

I honestly don't recall Miz spamming the chinlock in his match with Rey. Mainly just remember some good reversals and counters in the closing minutes as well as Rey busting out some offense we didn't normally see from him around the time period.

The WWE Title 4-way on RAW '09 is pretty fun. Nothing special quality wise but as usual, I love the finish because of who wins. Main event from No Mercy '06 is decent but almost nothing of note happens in the first 8-10 minutes of the match. Then Batista gets busted open and shit gets real.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I need more than Mysterio doing flashy stuff in the final two minutes of a match for me to care. :draper2


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Insurrexion 2003

Another show that I’ve never seen before, and another show there might be a good reason for not seeing.

_Women’s Championship Match:_
*Jazz(c) w/Teddy Long vs. Trish Stratus*

Trish was still really good her but Jazz had none of the aggression that I really liked from singles match at Backlash. Jazz’s control segment was just flat as she didn’t really do anything that made her look like the badass bitch she was supposed to be playing. Trish’s comeback was at least really good as her performance seemed to be just as good as their Backlash match. The crowd was behind as she did a good job of getting sympathy and support. I’m not going to act like I really remember a lot of Jazz matches but I’m not sure which Jazz we normally see, I just know she was very unimpressive here.
**½ *


_Intercontinental Championship Match:_
*Christian(c) vs. Booker T*

Not a very impressive match. The match is all Booker T for a really long time to start things off. It wasn’t too interesting but it made sense considering Christian had recently won the title in a battle royal that he had already been eliminated from. So he was purposely made to look totally outmatched the entire time. He got some offense in through cheating and luck but there was never really a time when Booker didn’t look like he was significantly better. Booker’s comeback wasn’t anything special either. I won’t say it was terrible but there really isn’t a lot of praise I can give this. For the amount of time it had I was hoping for a lot more.
*** *


_World Tag Team Championship Match:_
*Rob Van Dam and Kane(c) vs. La Resistance* 

This is a house show match. RVD and Kane kick some ass to start things off, we see a weak and short control segment on RVD, a hot tag, and they take it home a minute later. The match was sloppy, La Resistance had terrible looking offense, and at no point did they ever look like they had a chance in this match.I bet had you been to a house show they had on this tour of England you would have seen the same exact match. La Resistance wasn’t good and Kane and RVD phoned it in.
***


*Rico vs. Goldust*

Another house show match. It was OK. Rico mostly did some weak looking kicks early on. The match did make me laugh when Rico hit the softest backhand slap to Goldust ever, it was done intentionally I’m sure and it was just hilarious. They pick things up a little at the end and we got a minute or two of what I would call good but for the most part this was something you would see on a house show or Heat. I literally watched this 5 minutes ago and I remember almost nothing.
**¼ *


*Rodney Mack, Christopher Nowinski, and Teddy Long vs. Bubba-Ray, D-Von, and Spike Dudley* 

I’m beginning to see why so many people skip matches on their reviews now. This was pretty bad, the heels just weren’t good in the ring at all and there is only so much you can expect the Dudleys to get out of bad opponents. They go back and forth for while in some forgettable exchanges before the heels work the isolation segment on Spike before a not so hot tag is made to Bubba. There’s nothing good about that other than the fact that it was kept short. Another house show match, and a bad one at that. Teddy Long wasn’t even entertaining as the manager that was stuck in the match.
*½* *


*Scott Steiner vs. Test w/Stacy Keibler* 
_Special Referee: Val Venis_

Yes this was really the semi-main event. It was terrible and I don’t think it’s really worth explaining why. The match was best summed up when Stacy threw a towel at Test’s face and he sold it like he was punched in the face and this allowed Steiner to start his comeback. 
*¼** 


_Street Fight for the World Heavyweight Championship:_
*Triple H(c) w/Ric Flair vs. Kevin Nash w/Shawn Michaels *

Well this was comfortably the best match of the night. Not that it was great but it was honestly the only match that I got any enjoyment out of. Flair was just the man here. Hebner tells everyone that he will eject Michaels or Flair if they get involved. So naturally Flair jumps Nash in the opening minutes, which brings Michaels into the match as well. With 3 minutes Flair is bleeding buckets and is soon forced out of the ring by officials. It was pretty hilarious. Triple H and Flair were OK on their own as they just fought everywhere and Triple H did the always smart strategy of going after Nash’s legs for a little bit. They weren’t alone for all that long before more fuckery ensued. Flair makes his triumphant return, followed by Michaels, there were some ref bumps, every took a finsiher, I don’t know all sorts of crazy shit was going on. It was a total clusterfuck but I enjoyed it because stuff was actually happening in a match. They had a solid 15 minute match that was at least exciting and entertaining. Maybe I’m rating it higher because everything else was so bad but I thought as a stand alone match it was pretty good.
***¾*​
Well that sucked. Just unpleasant to sit through. Jericho and Austin even had a bad highlight reel together. It was about 10% as funny as the classic interview that they did after Raw from around the same time period. This PPV is a good example of why you shouldn’t book a PPV and have 3 of the best workers on the roster (Jericho, Michaels, Flair) not be booked in matches.

It's probably worth mentioning that my ratings for the undercard matches are probably a little skewed to be bad as I was getting progressively more and more annoyed with the show.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Rico/Goldust is like ***. Fuck you.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nash vs H was easily my least favorite match on that show.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The best match on that "show" was Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair :lol Good ol' awful RAW.

Speaking of awful RAW, ECW in its first few weeks on air was actually pretty fun. RVD and Big Show both made really good champions. Sandman beating up people and not wrestling is good. Sabu didn't botch that much either. And Mike Knox is funny. Big Show vs. Ric Flair, oh man. Are there any more matches similar to that? Old babyface that needs to break the rules in order to beat the physically superior heel.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Show vs RVD for the Championship. :mark:


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Ruiner87 said:


> Rico/Goldust is like ***. Fuck you.


I put in a disclaimer. I had seen a lot of shit and knew I had a lot more shit to watch and was in a pretty negative mood. Even so that match was pretty fucking boring. 

I also assumed that Nash/Triple H wouldn't be too popular. Mostly because there seems to be a pretty strong bias here towards fun. 



On a different topic I know everyone is pretty high on Finlay here and I was in agreement with that at first. But then I watched all of his matches with Sami Callihan and my feelings on him really changed. I know they were all good matches but by the end I was so sick of watching them wrestle. They had 3 matches and in each one Finaly beat the shit out of Sami and won the match. After seeing the 50+ year old Finlay beat up Sami for so long and not even put him over I was kind of done with him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Yeah Sami was totally buried by result of that series. How dare the dominating veteran who did that to every single worker he was put in the ring w/do that to great modern day talent.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

What do you guys think of his match with Steen in PWG? I was meh on it. Dry, boring, and couldn't keep my attention which says something since PWG is pretty much the most exciting environment for a wrestling match.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Decided I'd watch Vengeance 04 because I could only remember one match from it. I guess I'll take a shot at this:

The Coach & Garrison Cade vs Tajiri & Rhyno - **3/4
-This match is helped a lot by how absurdly hot the crowd are for it. They go *APESHIT* at the prospect of Coach getting Gored by Rhyno. The action was pretty good, even when Coach was in the ring. Good opener.

Batista vs Chris Jericho - ***
-Good match, basic speed vs strength story being told. Batista hit 2 of the biggest spinebusters I've ever seen, and Jericho gets his foot on the ropes after the Batista Bomb without the ref noticing to carry the feud into the next month. 

La Resistance vs Ric Flair & Eugene - **
-As much as I despise the Eugene character, he was easily the best part of the match. Finish was dumb, match was slow, and an active Evolution member playing a babyface just seems weird. 

Matt Hardy w/ Lita vs Kane - *1/2
-Kane's offense was pretty bland, and he was in control for basically the whole match. They made Matt's win seem like an absolute fluke, which isn't a good way to garner interest in their match next month.

Randy Orton vs Edge - ****
-Oh fuck yeah. Maybe I'm overrating it because I'm a mark for both guys, but I loved this match the night of, and it hasn't lost anything since. I'm sure everybody's seen it, but watch it if you haven't. 

Victoria vs Molly Holly - *1/4
-Nothing awful per say, but nothing that would make me want to see this again. Short and boring.

Chris Benoit vs Triple H - ***1/2
-This match could've been so much better if not for that god damn finish. Why must Eugene be in so many angles in 04? WHY?

Overall: Good show. Outside of Orton/Edge, nothing that I'd recommend to watch by itself, but the show as a whole has a lot of consistency.


----------



## -Skullbone- (Sep 20, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The best match on that "show" was Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair :lol Good ol' awful RAW.
> 
> Speaking of awful RAW, ECW in its first few weeks on air was actually pretty fun. RVD and Big Show both made really good champions. Sandman beating up people and not wrestling is good. Sabu didn't botch that much either. And Mike Knox is funny. Big Show vs. Ric Flair, oh man. Are there any more matches similar to that? Old babyface that needs to break the rules in order to beat the physically superior heel.


I remember how WWECW was absolutely trashed by the majority during its early stages. It got shat on by The Hammertein in a big way too (Batista vs Big Show anyone?). Can't say I was fond of it as a show until around late '08/ early '09 from memory. The show lost a lot of its flavor but it was great to turn to for sustained in-ring performances and seeing some of the lesser known stars/midcarders getting their due. I think it got some proper recognition in 2010 when Christian was champ and killed it in just about every match he was in. It wasn't just all his doing. Well, a lot of it was truthfully, but you also had Regal, Swagger and a few others pushing for top credits.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't hate all the early WWECW stuff. Big Show as champ was great and Lashley was getting the most out of his career at that point too (outside the Cena match at GAB and WM match with Umaga and Trump). With the good stuff came the bad too. RVD is particular produced a couple of howlers. If you haven't already, check out the Ladder match against Sabu. I have no idea how long those two spent lighting up before the match but some of what they did could only be enjoyed if you were high off your arse.

A little of topic, but I'll be interested to hear what some of you guys think about Daniel Bryan's imminent return to the ring. Should he ever compete again, what things do you think will be different this time around (aside from the obvious spots involving landing heavily on the head and neck)? What will he be looking to get out of himself?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

To be completely honest, I'm not sure if Bryan will even change anything at all, outside of possibly stuff like the diving headbutt or maybe even the suicide dive. The guy is that much passionate for the business, and I think not much will change in his arsenal, really.

Now, I decided to rewatch one of two SummerSlams I have in DVD at home (some of the few DVD's I actually own ) in 2006:

- *Rey/Chavo* suceeded in making their fight come out like a true blood feud, as the match was filled with HATE~ from start to finish and felt quite different than the typical Cruiserweight match. They made the most they could out of a match the crowd gave as much shits as Eddie's heart was beating (sick joke, I know, but appropriate) and Vickie's involvement was so forced it forces a laugh out of me.

- *Show/Sabu* was pretty much Sabu in a nutshell - while the entertainment factor is there for most part, I couldn't count on one hand the amount of botches in the match. Bless Show for making the whole thing less guilty all throughout.

- *Hogan/Orton* had the crowd in a complete 360º from the opener - they had those people in the palm of their hands. Especially Hogan. The man is a master of playing up a crowd, really. But outside of that, they told about as much of a good story as they could w/the circumstances of Hogan's shape. 06 Orton was so good at being an asshole, really. Good match.

- *Flair/Foley* was one of those matches that I don't need to introduce. I've seen it about as many times as the number of days I'm alive, and I'll never tire out of it. A modern classic.

- *Booker/Batista* was another match that needs no introduction - but not for good reasons. The complete opposite, actually. How their Survivor Series match was even worse than this, I don't know. How can two guys have this much lack of chemistry? Compared to the Booker feud, Batista/JBL are HBK/Taker matches.

- *McMahons/DX* was, like almost every McMahons match, overbooked to death. Feels like 3 different matches into one (counting with the pre-match beatdown). But at the same time, that booking feels kinda perfect. And like almost every McMahons match, very entertaining. Vince and Shane put on arguably their best performances ever, and 06 DX actually sorted out to have good, symphatetic performances as well.

- *Edge/Cena* can't be beaten by any other match of their feud, can it? It truly felt like a heated war, where Cena wanted to destroy Edge both mentally and physically. Edge on the other hand, who had the odds against him - DQ loss loses title, Cena was pretty much bloodlusted against him, in Cena's hometown of Boston - was just fighting for survival all the time, and took as much shortcuts as he could. The end result? The best match of the Cena/Edge feud.

*STARZ~:
Rey/Chavo: **3/4
Show/Sabu: *1/4
Hogan/Orton: ***
Flair/Foley: ****1/4
Booker/Batista: DUD
McMahons/DX: ***
Edge/Cena: ***3/4*

I wouldn't say it's a show that rules like Cody said - and this is coming from someone who should be quite biased for this show given how it was one of my first PPV's ever - but I'd say it is a pretty good show. Flair/Foley is a classic, Edge/Cena is great, both Hogan/Orton and McMahons/DX are good, and Rey/Chavo is decent. Show/Sabu is bad but entertaining btw. The only skidmark on the show is Booker/Batista, really. WrestleCrap right there.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Why did Hogan come back and beat Orton? Was he with the 'legend killer' mode still.

Always seemed stupid tbh, but hey its Hogan.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> Why did *Hogan* come back and beat Orton? Was he with the 'legend killer' mode still.
> 
> Always seemed stupid tbh, but hey its *Hogan*.


I bolded the answer for you.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao When JBL took over commentary in 2006, every time Paul London or Brian Kendrick wrestled, JBL just talks about how cute both of them look. Why isn't this man in prison?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Because the police had seen the future - a future in which JBL would hilariously bury the Miz and MVP on commentary.

For some reason, I wanna rewatch Trish/Mickie from WM 22 and Angle/Benoit WM 17 both. Two matches of my childhood, both are very good. That's what I have on last rewatch.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Watching No Mercy 08 on THE NETWORK right now. Hardy/Henry was awesome of course, I skipped the divas match, and Kane/Mysterio has been enjoyable so far.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So I did end up rewatching both Angle/Benoit and Trish/Mickie from WM's 17 and 22 respectively. Both are still really good. Trish/Mickie has arguably the greatest Divas performance EVER by Mickie James (which, alongside her accomplishments, makes her worthy of the HOF), an insane crowd and great selling all along by both ladies, mainly Trish. Angle/Benoit is pretty much the stereotypical Angle/Benoit match - starts off as a mat wrestling contest, then Angle gets frustrated and this turns into a fight, then it gets very intense with back and forth counters and Angle eventually steals one w/a rollup. The basic for a match of theirs, but it worked very well.

And just wanna say this - seeing that NWO 03 ramble, why did you NO Austin/Bischoff, Cal? That was better than, like, almost the entire fucking card minus Taker/Show .


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Because I've seen it before and it absolutely fucking sucks .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup, because seeing Eric Bischoff get utterly crushed for 5 minutes, Stunnered into oblivion and a great crowd in a super fun squash sucks. You have no heart, sir :side:

Seeing Angle/Benoit WM 17 made me think - are there any more matches like the beggining of that, where both men just go insane on the mat?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Go watch Steiner Brothers vs. Williams and Gordy at Clash of the Champions. Exactly what you're looking for.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

JBL burying The Miz in 2006 was one of the funniest things ever. Constantly calling him The Red Rooster always got to me. :lmao

Him shitting on Jimmy Wang Yang's ******* gimmick was also funny. At one point, he actually said Jimmy is "a cross between Mr. Fuji and JR". :lmao


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Did what ff said and watched Steiners/Dr. Death & Gordy from COTC. And, yup, it's one awesome ass match. With LOTS of pure wrasslin' in it. And a great feel of legit competition and legit roughness all throughout. Finish was great too, and seeing the fans shocked with what the heels accomplished was pretty cool. Awesome stuff. I'd give it around ****1/4, maybe ****1/2 even.

Now, after watching that pretty much legit fight, change of style time. FUN WITH HARDCORE RULES~!


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Al Snow vs Hardcore Holly from St. Valentine's Day Massacre is both fun and hardcore.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mick Foley vs. Santa Claus in a Boiler Room Brawl in 1999. I think the week before, there was a fun match between Foley and Al Snow.

Hey Smitty is back


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You're too late on that ff, I've seen it already. Along with a few others from 2001 (Rhyno/Raven, Big Show/Raven, Kane/Show/Raven) and some 24/7 hilarity. That's all before I went doing my life and now I'm back 

However, I still have in my watchlist Vince/Shane from WM 17. If I had a Fun-O-Meter, on last watch that match would get the full ***** on it. Let's see if it holds up.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

ATF, have you seen Big Show/Rhyno/Test from JD 01? I thought it was a pretty fun match.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, I have. And yes, it is pretty fun. Though not as good as the ones I mentioned on the previous page.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Wow, 2001 really was the peak of WWF's Hardcore division, especially once RVD got the belt. All those matches with Jeff and the one with Taker are awesome too.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Hardcore title division is one of my favourite things ever. Total "trash" wrestling with guys hitting each other with shitty weapons and lots of run-ins, but that's what the division was ABOUT so it was awesome . 2000 was great with the 24/7 rule coming into play, Crash being the "houdini of hardcore" and managing to escape with the title time after time, and then Steve Blackman getting a good run and legitimising the belt to a good extent. 01 brought the title up another level when guys like Big Show, Kane and Undertaker all went after it and had title runs, along with guys going out of their way to kill themselves over it like Raven, Jeff Hardy and RVD. BRING IT BACK!!!


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

RVD vs Jerry Lynn in a sprint for the Hardcore Championship is basically what everyone should see if they don't want to put up w/the Hardcore Heaven match.

Hardcore championship in this modern day would rule w/someone like Sandow being in the mix. Wearing numerous goofy costumes winning & losing the championship all the time. Damn. That could make his career right there.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Normal Smiley works for WWE these days, right? Get him out there in American Football gear again and the hardcore division will be instantly made :mark:.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, if that saves Sandow's career in any way, then yes I'm welcome to see it. See what I did there? I'm WELCOME to see it? WHERE'S THE GODDAMN SANDOW SMILEY?!

But yeah, both the Cruiserweight AND Hardcore Titles should return to current TV. With only one World Title (which is something I don't really agree with given how the World Title could've been used as a midcard/uppercard elevator for someone), there needs to be more attention to other folks who certainly won't get anywhere near the top of the show. Therefore, those two titles are perfect for it. Make the Hardcore Title 24/7 appliable even, why not? If little kids and their mommies laugh at shows like SpongeBob and Looney Tunes which are (cartoon-wise) violent as hell, why wouldn't they laugh at something like that? Plus, it would please those BAAAHH BRING BACK DAH ATTITUDE ERAH AND DEM TITZ~ smarks in a way. Win-win situation.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching the 09/23/1996 episode of Nitro.

Heard Goldberg's theme, then thought to myself, hang on he didn't debut yet did he.

Pat Tanaka came out lol. Didn't realise someone else used the theme before Goldberg.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I hope nobody at WWE pitches the Hardcore division again, because last time someone did, Russo came up with the Brawl 4 All.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Dude, the Brawl For All was in 1999. And it had nothing to do w/the Hardcore division, outside of the legit fight thing that had. And even if it did, the Hardcore division peaked in 2001, two years later . Plus, there is no Vince Russo to come up with those shitty ideas anymore. Not that WWE's ideas today are much better, but still.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

What I meant was, JBL told a story on the Attitude Era DVD that he asked Russo about doing a Hardcore division, and Russo took that idea and flipped it into the Brawl 4 All.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

BFA was in 1998 . And it still makes me :lmao at the fact that Bradshaw pitched the hardcore division idea to Russo and somehow a shoot fight tournament came of it :lmao.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Watching the 09/23/1996 episode of Nitro.
> 
> Heard Goldberg's theme, then thought to myself, hang on he didn't debut yet did he.
> 
> Pat Tanaka came out lol. Didn't realise someone else used the theme before Goldberg.


That's pretty funny, but it doesn't top Jericho's original WCW theme being used for NBA highlights on TBS back in 1996 :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's pretty funny, but it doesn't top Jericho's original WCW theme being used for NBA highlights on TBS back in 1996 :lmao




It's amazing WCW actually got to use Voodoo Child lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Good. Now people will get my Pat Tanaka jokes whenever Goldberg comes out. It isn't just an inside joke. :sansa

also, Pat Tanaka's leaping forearm attack is AMAZING.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Cody your Naito sig is probably the coolest thing ever. 

Anyway... RAW tonight huh? Lookin forward to that.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

That is pretty cool. Almost makes me rethink my decision to keep sigs off....almost. Too bad the majority are "i'll cry like a bitch until x happens".


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll cry like a bitch until the WF gets the decency enough to allow gifs to be used as avatars/sigs. Because I'm good enough of a poster to deserve that for myself GODDAMMIT 8*D.

And because I really wanna have this as a gif too:









You can't blame me for that kind of gif being my choice. :yum: 

That aside, not sure if tonight's Raw will be any different than these past week's in terms of quality. No Cena or Lesnar scheduled for the show. Hope it surprises, but I don't have that feeling it will.

EDIT: Damn these erroring gifs, I like being lazy and getting a good one on first try :side:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pay yer money, take yer choice.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Befitting of Naito's quality. Nothing but cool.

And RAW tonight should be cruise control w/hopefully a few good matches thrown in. Everything is already set in stone to the point where the PPV can happen right now & it will work.

Cena vs Brock
Ambrose vs Rollins
Reigns vs Orton
Brie vs Steph
Swagger vs Rusev
Jericho vs Bray
Miz vs Dolph
Paige vs AJ
Usos vs BLACK RAGE _(possibly? this is growing atm)_

At least it has three matches I'm honestly excited for. I swear if tag titles make it but IC doesn't, then WWE, you lack sense.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think Usos will take on Team Chocolate and the Dust Bros in a 3-way or those two teams and the Wyatts in a 4-way. That's what dem SHEETZ were reporting after all - a 3 or 4-way for the Tag Titles.

And I would pay if I could. But I cannot so I will not. NO MONEY TO PAY AT THE END OF THE YEAR~ :cheer _(Does this even pay in euros, anyway?)_


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Even though there is only supposed to be a video package tonight for Brock/Cena, it could still be a damn good one at least.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> I think Usos will take on Team Chocolate and the Dust Bros in a 3-way or those two teams and the Wyatts in a 4-way. That's what dem SHEETZ were reporting after all - a 3 or 4-way for the Tag Titles.
> 
> And I would pay if I could. But I cannot so I will not. NO MONEY TO PAY AT THE END OF THE YEAR~ :cheer _(Does this even pay in euros, anyway?)_


I want Usos vs New Nation vs Ryback vs Dust2Dust vs Slater-Gator vs Wyatt Family in *TAG TEAM TURMOIL*.

Mostly because there hasn't been a tag team turmoil in forever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Usos vs New Nation vs *Ryback(?)* vs Dust2Dust vs Slater-Gator vs Wyatt Family

THE BIG GUY's so good he wrestles a Tag Team Turmoil by himself :lol :ryback

And, even though it's almost been a year since, we got one at Night Of Champions 2013...... pre-show. And, if you count it, like I and funnyfaces do, as a Tag Team Turmoil, you do have the 2-on-2 turned 3-on-3 turned 6-on-6 match(es) on SD last year in late November. That's all I got recently.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

For most of 2012, Ryback was a one-man tag team


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Unfortunely, he wasn't the Tag Team Champions :bryan (INSERT KANE SMILEY)


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumored to put the actual teams that matter involved? WWE has some sense left, after all.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I never thought a few months back I'd see the day where Cesaro would probably be left off of the SummerSlam card :vince7


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I never thought I'd say this, especially in a post-WM 30 world, but Heyman was the worst thing that could've happened to Cesaro, on one hand. On the other hand, his handling and booking has been a complete SWING AND MISS. Ha, get it?! I'M HILARIOUS, SHUT UP.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I can live w/it b/c Swagger has a career again. Not worried about Cesaro either. He's just a victim of WWE's vapid can't push too many new names at once routine.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

After Reigns makes it to the top, they'll turn Cesaro face and everything will be fine. Until then, I can't wait for him to lose to Adam Rose on the preshow or something, I guess.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why is Cena off of tonight's RAW? Filming something?

So strange to see Cody's proposed card not feature either Sheamus or Cesaro. Two of the best workers in the company with nothing to do right now...

Also wanna ask, does anyone think and/or wanna see any of the top singles matches on the show have a gimmick added? I feel like Jericho/Wyatt, Ambrose/Rollins, Orton/Reigns, and even Paige/AJ are deserving of something outside of a traditional singles. Jericho/Wyatt seems like the biggest one that makes sense to me, but since they did the whole barring Rowan from ringside thing, I can't see it happening. Orton/Reigns would make sense but I'd rather it be a traditional match for Reigns first ever PPV singles. Ambrose & Rollins just need to have a fucking match.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*ATF*, try this image and let me know if it works. Just don't resave it and modify the file extension. Additionally, if it doesn't work, the first time, apply it to your sig via the codes.

[IMG]http://phototive.com/obrazki/normal/ESJ5PHGE.png


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

That gif makes me cringe. I feel like she's gonna get a paper cut on her tongue. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

But she won't. She never will. She does has a paper on her tongue, there's where your right - and she's sexy doing so 8*D

EDIT: Says "remote file is too large". Expected really.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Suppose you could resize the image. Saving it as .apng via gif converter or GIMP should work. I had an animated sig before being premium via that method. Anyway, so, like, wrestling and stuff...




Jack Evans 187 said:


> Also wanna ask, does anyone think and/or wanna see any of the top singles matches on the show have a gimmick added? I feel like Jericho/Wyatt, Ambrose/Rollins, Orton/Reigns, and even Paige/AJ are deserving of something outside of a traditional singles.


I'd love for Ambrose/Rollins to be no-DQ but I fear that we then may see a Kane interference, if so. I guess that may help extend the feud leading to a HiaC pay-off, as another poster mentioned before. Still, Kane interference. unk2


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Kane has indeed been ruining everything for months now...


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

It's got to point now where I'd rather see The fucking Miz than see Kane waltzing to the ring.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Yeah, because Miz's new gimmick is AWESOME :trips2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane has been fine in his role. Better than scaring Danielson & Brie Bella. That was really a WWE Championship program following WrestleMania. Bluurrrgh.

Dunno why WWE has made Sheamus MIA. Well, I kind of do. Really hard to keep all this talent in line, I guess. Even when someone like Sheamus is & has been established for years. Huh.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Sheamus has the flu, so that's why he's not around.

:lmao Is anybody stupid enough to actually like the Foley/Flair 2006 feud? The promos are just Mick Foley over-screaming and Ric Flair slurring his words. Would have been a great feud 15 years prior, but at this point, both of these fossils were just caricatures of their old selves. At least the Summerslam match from what I remember was good, but this entire Foley 2006 run hurt his legacy. Gotta respect wrestlers who actually understand when their time is over.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Sheamus has the flu, so that's why he's not around.
> 
> :lmao Is anybody stupid enough to actually like the Foley/Flair 2006 feud? The promos are just Mick Foley over-screaming and Ric Flair slurring his words. Would have been a great feud 15 years prior, but at this point, both of these fossils were just caricatures of their old selves. At least the Summerslam match from what I remember was good, but this entire Foley 2006 run hurt his legacy. Gotta respect wrestlers who actually understand when their time is over.


Foley vs Edge WM 22 ****1/2 (Edge's 2nd best match ever, MOTYC)
Foley/Edge vs Dreamer/Funk ONS 2006 ****1/2 (top 5 6 man tag in US history, MOTYC)
Foley vs Flair SS 2006 **** (could have been even better if they hadn't had their time cut right before going out)

Yea, he sure wasted his time and hurt his legacy in 2006 :side:

Come on bud, you're better than that. His black and white promo with "Barbie" was great, and his promo duel with Funk was great too. This wasn't Foley in his prime, obviously, but even Foley at 75% is better than 90% of the roster that year.

Foley didn't hurt his legacy until TNA, and even then, he and Flair gave us a throwback GREAT performance with their classic Last Man Standing match, a match that was 10 times better than Cena/Bray LMS even though both competitors were barely at 40% of their ability during their respective primes.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> :lmao Is anybody stupid enough to actually like the Foley/Flair 2006 feud?


Don't you call me stupid again! :side:

The promo with Foley on the tron and Flair challenging him for SummerSlam was awesome.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Foley vs Edge WM 22 ****1/2 (Edge's 2nd best match ever, MOTYC)
> Foley/Edge vs Dreamer/Funk ONS 2006 ****1/2 (top 5 6 man tag in US history, MOTYC)
> Foley vs Flair SS 2006 **** (could have been even better if they hadn't had their time cut right before going out)
> 
> ...







Justify this filth. The matches were good and all (#2 is my MOTY so far), but the run was a big insult to the Foley character. Was there really any need at all for the heel turn? Or the Flair feud? Or aligning with Melina? Nobody benefited from those things. And the only time Foley got a reaction was when he went for cheap heat towards ECW.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Foley/Edge and the ONS match tho...


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Foley/Edge dropped for me down to ***3/4. The meat of the match just wasn't as interesting as I remember it being. Perhaps due to Edge just not being that good of a wrestler at that point. But the only memorable part in the first half of the match was Foley wrapping barbwire around his belly in order to defend himself from the spear. Other than that, the meat of the match was by-the-books WWE hardcore wrestling. Ending ruled though, I won't take that away from them. MOTN, but not the all-time classic I remember it being. Certainly not Foley/Orton level.

I can't take anything away from the ONS match. All six people in that match were on point. Even Dreamer. But why have the heel turn? Why make yourself look like a pussy in order to feud with people that didn't need your rub (Funk, Dreamer, Flair)? Why put your body through all that unnecessary pain?

EDIT: To add on to my point, yes I do think that Foley/Edge should not have happened. My reason for that isn't necessarily a dig at Foley though. What should have happened was that Edge should have carried the WWE Title to Wrestlemania to face Cena in the main event. There was too much momentum with that feud that it's a sin not to carry it on to the main event. HHH/Cena felt so rushed together, and during the Road to Wrestlemania, Cena was actually feuding more with Edge than with Triple H.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Reigns vs. Kane Last Man Standing match up next on RAW! Orton vs. Reigns at Summerslam! Beat the clock challenge to determine who picks the stipulation to the Ambrose vs. Rollins match at Summerslam! Del Rio vs. Ambrose! Rollins vs. Van Dam!

Get Summerslam on the WWE Network for just $9.99! :lol


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

idk, Foley & Flair being old guys mad at each other is kind of why it worked. Vengeance match was garbage and Foley'-s incoherent promo prior was wtf, but the bladejob post match ruled as did the beat down, so it had its ups & owns. Nobody is justifying the garbage Melina angle tho. idk what that even was supposed to be.

and Foley in TNA was fun. b/c some of it was openly bad _(well, majority of the matches were. GENESIS '09 OMG watch plz. wtf level booking & Booker T proving he doesn't know English)_, but Mick was just too silly in those bad moments to even mind. Meanwhile other people are being super serious in the middle of the crap and it just comes off so bad. Mick had the right approach. Plus he still had some quality promos during it too.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I almost complained about those RAW spoilers, but then I realized I'm an idiot for being on WF when I can't watch RAW.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hahaha. My apologies. I tend to forget there's other people on here that are in different parts of the world.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm in the USA, just have other stuff to do right now


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Justify this filth. The matches were good and all (#2 is my MOTY so far), but the run was a big insult to the Foley character. Was there really any need at all for the heel turn? Or the Flair feud? Or aligning with Melina? Nobody benefited from those things. And the only time Foley got a reaction was when he went for cheap heat towards ECW.





funnyfaces1 said:


> Foley/Edge dropped for me down to ***3/4. The meat of the match just wasn't as interesting as I remember it being. Perhaps due to Edge just not being that good of a wrestler at that point. But the only memorable part in the first half of the match was Foley wrapping barbwire around his belly in order to defend himself from the spear. Other than that, the meat of the match was by-the-books WWE hardcore wrestling. Ending ruled though, I won't take that away from them. MOTN, but not the all-time classic I remember it being. Certainly not Foley/Orton level.
> 
> I can't take anything away from the ONS match. All six people in that match were on point. Even Dreamer. But why have the heel turn? Why make yourself look like a pussy in order to feud with people that didn't need your rub (Funk, Dreamer, Flair)? Why put your body through all that unnecessary pain?
> 
> EDIT: To add on to my point, yes I do think that Foley/Edge should not have happened. My reason for that isn't necessarily a dig at Foley though. What should have happened was that Edge should have carried the WWE Title to Wrestlemania to face Cena in the main event. There was too much momentum with that feud that it's a sin not to carry it on to the main event. HHH/Cena felt so rushed together, and during the Road to Wrestlemania, Cena was actually feuding more with Edge than with Triple H.



You obviously haven't read Foleys book "The Hardcore Diaries". All the things you are complaining about, specifically the heel turn, were ruined because of WWE Creative. All of them. The original idea Foley pitched revolving around One Night Stand and then his feud with Flair was pure MONEY. For starters, it involved Terry Funk tearing a chunk out of Vince McMahons bare ass, something that if it had happened, would probably rank among my favorite moments in wrestling history. But no. All of Micks great ideas and great promos got ruined by WWE creative because they were so concerned with the DX angle that they wouldn't allow anything else to outshine it. The build to ONS and SS, and the whole Melina thing were fantastic ideas from Mick that got completely and unequivocally ruined by those idiots on the writing staff. Read the book, it's true. It'll change your mind 100% on Foley's 2006 run. Instead of thinking it "tainted his legacy" you'll see it as a massive wasted opportunity that still some how gave us 2 classic matches and 1 great match. Not too shabby for a completely broken down, 40 year old man.

Yes, Cena/Edge probably should have happened at WM, but it didn't. WWE was set in doing Hunter/Cena, so giving Edge a match with Foley was actually the single best alternative to being in the Main Event for the WWE title. And I don't care what you say, regardless of the fact that that match isn't as good as Orton/Foley, it's still a fucking classic and easily the best match on the card. Even Regal called it "a complete masterpiece". Who are you to argue with William fucking Regal? 

I can't believe I'm having to defend Foley to you of all people. I never thought I'd hear someone whose opinion I respect denigrate that man 

I'm watching Slamboree 1997 right now, and I have to say, I'm thoroughly enjoying this entire show. Benoit/MENG is up next :mark: :mark:


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Gotta agree with funnyfaces on Foley/Edge, didn't think it was quite up to par with its proclaimed status when last watched. Still really good no doubt, ***3/4 and even then, not MOTN. Also, Hunter/Cena is more like ***1/2.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So is anyone else watching RAW right now? Had two really good matches thus far. Both had relatively weak endings but still enjoyable. Plus that hype package for Cena vs. Brock and the return of a certain former World Champion from the state of Texas.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

Ambrose/Del Rio tonight was great. Way better than their Main Event match. Dean selling the shoulder injury was fantastic and Del Rio did a lot more work on that injured shoulder and that was widely appreciated. Great shit by both men.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hey there's someone!  Yeah, everything after the commercial break was fantastic. I felt like I was watching a motivated Del Rio, which is not something we get on a week-to-week basis. That reverse suplex from the top rope was a thing of beauty.

Have to also comment on Reigns/Kane. Dare I say it was the best Last Man Standing match I've seen from the company all year. Didn't spam the 10 count, sold everything nicely, and didn't go overboard. Finish was really weak imo but I still liked the bulk of the match. Table spot was really well done. 

***+ for each. Van Dam vs. Rollins and Jericho vs. Harper still to come!


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I thought the Last Man Standing was fine, though I would've liked Reigns to spear Kane through the barricade to get the win but overall, nice match. I don't know whether to call it the best Last Man Standing all year since Cena/Wyatt though (I haven't seen the match but I've heard good things about it except for the ending lol).

RVD/Rollins should be good as I thought their past encounters were nice to watch and Harper/Jericho should be no different. Good night so far.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

*WHAT IN THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING WITH CESARO*


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Maybe he's going on a losing streak so they can turn him face to feud with Lesnar and blame Heyman for his path to mediocrity? Idk.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Reigns/Kane was better than Cena/Wyatt for LMS matches, but it was another awfully boring Reigns match. Finish was extremely underwhelming as well.

Ambrose/Del Rio was pretty good. And for a minute long match, Bo/Truth was pretty sweet as well.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Ladies and gentlemen, Heath Slater is the first person to pin Seth Rollins since CM Punk :lol


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I was hoping Slater would go the distance


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> I'm watching Slamboree 1997 right now, and I have to say, I'm thoroughly enjoying this entire show. Benoit/MENG is up next :mark: :mark:


Finally. I dig that show. Benoit vs MENG omg the tops. Finish left me :mark: still to this day. Regal vs Ultimo? YES. Mongo vs Reggie White was actually entertaining. My brain blew up by this point. And then the six man main event was rather great too. WCW '97 was a beast. Wait, this show even had a good KONNAN match too. It was a tag. He didn't do much, but Steiners & Hugh Morrus were out there so who cares. The only drawback was Jarrett vs Malenko b/c anything Jarrett touched in '97 was dogshit. Annoyed by Mortis vs Glacier too, but at least it continued to build towards something.



Jack Evans 187 said:


> So is anyone else watching RAW right now? Had two really good matches thus far. Both had relatively weak endings but still enjoyable. Plus that hype package for Cena vs. Brock and the return of a certain former World Champion from the state of Texas.


If that means I got to see that idiot Shawn Michaels then ffs.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Heath Slater pinned Seth Rollins. On RAW. In the main event. In 2014.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, Heath Slater is the first person to pin Seth Rollins since CM Punk :lol


I was marking hard and I have no idea why! :lol



Hayley Seydoux said:


> If that means I got to see that idiot Shawn Michaels then ffs.


Nope, not him.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ok, now I'm kind of excited.

someone give me a no spoiler match listing for tonight's show plz


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Stephanie McMahon just did the best Pedigree I've seen since around 2005. Discuss.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Ok, now I'm kind of excited.
> 
> someone give me a no spoiler match listing for tonight's show plz


Last Man Standing: Kane vs. Reigns
Sandow vs. ??? (not spoiling that)
Del Rio vs. Ambrose (Beat the Clock)
Cesaro vs. Ziggler
RyBaxel vs. Dust Brothers again
Jericho vs. Harper
Dallas vs. Truth again
Fandango vs. Diego AGAIN
Rollins vs. Van Dam (maybe... Beat the Clock)

Steph and Brie contract signing as well. You also miss an entire Rusev vs. Sin Cara match during commercial. Only seen on the WWE app.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Shit, I put spoilers all over this thread. My bad.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cheers.

Don't worry about spoilers or rather just the results. I'm glossing over most as it is. I'm running the risk being online. My own fault if I see anything.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Finally. I dig that show. Benoit vs MENG omg the tops. Finish left me :mark: still to this day. Regal vs Ultimo? YES. Mongo vs Reggie White was actually entertaining. My brain blew up by this point. And then the six man main event was rather great too. WCW '97 was a beast. Wait, this show even had a good KONNAN match too. It was a tag. He didn't do much, but Steiners & Hugh Morrus were out there so who cares. The only drawback was Jarrett vs Malenko b/c anything Jarrett touched in '97 was dogshit. Annoyed by Mortis vs Glacier too, but at least it continued to build towards something.
> 
> 
> 
> If that means I got to see that idiot Shawn Michaels then ffs.



Totally agree man, I was about to throw a jab at Funnyfaces and say "Slamboree 1997 is proof that there is a Konan match that isn't all that bad". Really really loved the show. Regal/Ultimo and Benoit/MENG were co-matches of the night, but if pressed to pick one I'd give it to Benoit/MENG. The physicality was just unreal, and Benoits two "fire up" spots when he would scream at MENG "COME ON!" and MENG would just maul him gave me goosebumps. Plus, that finish. My word what a perfect finish. Diving head butt > nerve hold > Tongan death grip > night night Crippler. So yea, that match is all sorts of awesome. Ultimo/Regal was just a real delight to watch, probably the best Ultimo match from WCW. Then you've got Mortis/Glacier. Talk about buzzkill. I was PUMPED watching Mortis just lay waste to Glacier in the corner. All those stomps, kicks, and punches looked absolutely gorgeous. All of them. And then it just ends with stupid interference. Dammit all. If that match had gotten say, 6-7 minutes it would have been excellent. Jarrett/Malenko was just bleh. Not the worst thing in the world, but more just the dull dull dull. Malenko sitting in an abdominal stretch stone faced is not my idea of a fun time. For all of Malenko's smoothness in the ring, he really just fails to grasp how to be a good baby face in 90% of the matches I've seen him in. If a baby face can't sell and make me believe he's in agony, why in the shit should I care about the heel beating on him? That's just Pro Wrestling 101: if you're a face you HAVE to be able to sell. Even Goldberg could make me care when he would get worked over, and it's not like he's a selling savant.

Ditto your thoughts on Reggie White/Mongo (expected worst match ever, pleasantly surprised it was totally watchable and they managed to keep the crowd involved) and the Main Event tag (pretty much the same deal). 

I know it sounds like I'm putting over Slamboree 1997 as one of the best shows ever, but that's not my intent, as it's surely not that. However, I enjoyed watching just about every minute of it and would recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it.

Final ratings for Slamboree 1997:

Regal/Ultimo: ****
Madusa/Luna: NO
Rey Mistierio Jr/ Yuji Yasuroaka: ***1/2
Glacier/Mortis: **
Malenko/Jarrett: *3/4
Benoit/MENG: ****1/4 (probably overrating it a tad but come on, it's MENG vs Benoit)
Steiner's/Konnan and Morrus: **
McMichael/Reggie White: **
Flair, Piper, and Greene/NWO: ***1/4


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I agree that the Konnan match on that show isn't that bad. It wasn't good, but it's Konnan. I did like the Konnan/Eddie match at Uncensored 1996 though. I think Konnan was squashed by DDP a couple times too, so there's that. The main event to Slamboree 1997 is probably the second best of the nWo era. Super fun, and one of the few times where WCW doesn't make Flair look like a dumbass in Flair country. Benoit/Meng and Regal/Ultimo rule. Love the crowd in the latter too. Malenko/Jarrett sucked, all thanks to Jarrett. But overall, very good show.

I disagree with your point about Malenko though. It's a shame that he's starting to get categorized as a guy that only performs moves and can't tell good stories, because he is a very good babyface. As a heel, he does the stoneface stuff too much to a fault, but his selling as a babyface is so damn good. And evidence of that is in his match with Bret Hart where he sold a leg injury better than anyone I have seen. Somebody watch it and love it.


Mr. Cody and Yeah1993. Do you agree with this statement: The Sandman and Sabu were just as good (or bad) a wrestler as Shawn Michaels in the mid-2000s.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

I was lmao throughout that entire last segment of RAW. For various reasons at different tmes, and they weren't always good reasons, but that's ok. The whole thing was entertaining from one standpoint or another. That's what you should aim for. Would watch again.

Also, Lesnar once again proved that he's aces when he does those sit-down promos. He always gets me hyped for the matches when he does that, and he totally nails his role really well. Probably because it's not a role, but whatever, lol.

Oh, and funnyfaces, I haven't forgotten about your rep. Will get to it soon!


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

I haven't seen the sit down interview yet but the one he did in 2012 was fantastic. "i don't feel pain. i let my opponents feel pain". Lesnar is just a total boss.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Oh no, is Malenko/Jarrett that bad? That's a match that sounds like it could be a lot of fun. I'll have to sit down and watch the Benoit, Rey and Regal matches. Sounds good.

Edit

"Thanks a lot...Brain!"
"Don't mention it Schiavone."

:lol

I had never seen an Ultimo Dragon match before. This was fucking awesome. Nice matwork, stiff shots. Just a really fun match. That handstand-on-the-turnbuckle spot was incredible to watch. Regal is so great, too, obviously. The way he nonchalantly dodged that springboard to the outside was hilarious. Ending felt a little flat to me, but that was really the only problem. ******


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The hardest thing about doing a chronological PPV watch on the network is those Survivor Series where every match was the elimnation match. What a chore.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

The first SVS PPV's a chore?! I know this is all opinion, but dude, SVS 1987/88 were two of the best PPV events the company has pretty much ever produced. And 89 was decent as well. Super consistent in quality, the SVS matches presented were more often than not good, and you got to see those batshit crazy 20-Man Tags that were just phenomenal. How can you find that boring?

Anyway, this Raw was definitely a step-up in quality from last week's. Stephanie's doing Pedigrees, HHH entertainingly plugging the Network millions of times, ADR/Ambrose delievering, Kane/Reigns not sucking (let alone w/a LMS stipulation), HEATH SLATER pinning Rollins, Lesnar and Cena having another one of those badass sitdown promos and Sandow getting his ass handed to him by someone we all love. Not bad.

And regarding Foley's 2006 run:
vs Edge - ****1/2
ONS Tag - ****1/2
vs Flair VNG - 1/4*
vs Flair SS - ****1/4

Other than the Vengeance near DUD, Foley's 06 run was GOAT. Haters can fuck off :side:.


----------



## Starbuck (Apr 11, 2008)

Cena/Lesnar
Rollins/Ambrose (hopefully a ladder match for the briefcase)
Brie/Steph

Really looking forward to all the above. 

Wyatt/Jericho
Rusev/Swagger
Reigns/Orton

Also hold my interest. 

Summerslam is looking great imo. :mark:


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

What are the odds that they do a match for the briefcase and Ambrose actually wins it?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lol at the conflicting Raw reports, one says really good, the other says really shit.  Saying that, it's the same for every week so.

I'll probably watch it later, the sit down interview I'm looking forward to.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF, I respectfully disagree. I thought the last two episodes of RAW before yesterday's were far superior. Maybe it was just the constant 9.99 jokes from the commentators, but that episode put me on suicide watch. Ambrose vs. Del Rio was awesome though.

And SummerSlam is looking nice. I wish I would've gotten an Ambrose shirt instead of a Cesaro one though, because Cesaro's BERRIED


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I can't remember the Jarrett/Malenko match, but I completely disagree about everything being shit. Jarrett got fucking *heat* in WCW in '97. I'd go as far as saying that he's probably worked many a smark doing PPV reviews 15-20 years _after_ he worked the live audience. I mean, the guy is nothing special in the ring technically, but he's one of the best true heels of the last 20 years. _Everybody_ hates Jarrett:lol

I remember there's a Nitro match from '97 against Booker T, and it was the damnedest thing I ever saw. Jarrett playing the crowd like a fiddle - so much great character heel work. The place fucking explodes for Booker T's roll-up win outa nowhere. I mean an asses-leave-seats explosion - on par with him winning the WHC the first time. It's damn epic, and just shows how a great heel can work a crowd. Then there's the modern-day Double-J in a poncho and sombrero, throwing tortillas at fans in AAA recently. :lmao Fans chucking FULL cups of beer at Jarrett (who, of course, brought the ever-wretched Karen Angle with him). Too much :lol 

Like I said, he's not someone you watch to study the details of execution or technical prowess, but you watch him for the character and psychology of working a crowd. He used so much of it (some/most(?)/all(?!?) borrowed from :flair3 )


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, the commentators TOOK SELFIES IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH before, so what do you honestly expect from those three dumbasses nowadays? HHH took his time to troll the internet with those 9.99$ jokes, and if the trio already overplugged in a normal days, how much would they in an episode w/as big of a cue as that. Most shameful thing is that they CAN be good - they were good during Shield/Wyatts II or during Orton/Batista/Bryan.

Anyway, here's a video I found for the enthusiasts of... Kurt Angle. Yup. Found it while searching for some random wrasslin' video, decided I'd put it in here:





Don't necessarily agree with the list at all (though plugging Angle/Lesnar SS over WM or even Iron Man is awesome), but whatever. If I were to give each of those a rating:

vs Lesnar: ****1/2
vs Shane: ***1/2
vs Taker: ****3/4
vs Benoit: ***1/4
vs HBK: ****

Just found out w/that I actually like more Angle matches than I could ever think. :usangle

DAMMIT. Now I need to watch some Foley to change my mind off that. Austin/Dude OTE it is.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

JustJoel said:


> I can't remember the Jarrett/Malenko match, but I completely disagree about everything being shit. Jarrett got fucking *heat* in WCW in '97. I'd go as far as saying that he's probably worked many a smark doing PPV reviews 15-20 years _after_ he worked the live audience. I mean, the guy is nothing special in the ring technically, but he's one of the best true heels of the last 20 years. _Everybody_ hates Jarrett:lol
> 
> I remember there's a Nitro match from '97 against Booker T, and it was the damnedest thing I ever saw. Jarrett playing the crowd like a fiddle - so much great character heel work. The place fucking explodes for Booker T's roll-up win outa nowhere. I mean an asses-leave-seats explosion - on par with him winning the WHC the first time. It's damn epic, and just shows how a great heel can work a crowd. Then there's the modern-day Double-J in a poncho and sombrero, throwing tortillas at fans in AAA recently. :lmao Fans chucking FULL cups of beer at Jarrett (who, of course, brought the ever-wretched Karen Angle with him). Too much :lol
> 
> Like I said, he's not someone you watch to study the details of execution or technical prowess, but you watch him for the character and psychology of working a crowd. He used so much of it (some/most(?)/all(?!?) borrowed from :flair3 )



Best example of Jarrett working his old school heel schtick to a T is that match he has with Michaels at IYH: 2. Easily the best Jarrett match I've personally seen, he gets nuclear heat in minutes.

When I was complaining about Jarrett/Malenko, I was more complaining about Malenko. He just can't seem to make me care when he's a face. Only Malenko matches I can remember being genuinely invested in with him as a face are the ones he had with Jericho back in WCW. But even those were 90% Jericho being a terrific little shit and forcing me to get fully behind Malenko.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

40 minutes into the new Heyman documentary... and it's already like a top 5 wrestling doc ever .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I was actually going to ask for recs for 'best' Malenko matches lol. 

I still like Benoit/Malenko from Hog Wild.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> I was actually going to ask for recs for 'best' Malenko matches lol.
> 
> I still like Benoit/Malenko from Hog Wild.


Vs. Joe Malenko 11/7/89 AJPW
w/Joe vs. The Fantastics 7/15/89
Vs. Fuchi 3/10/91 
Vs. Eddie 2/3 Falls ECW
Vs. Eddie Hostile City Showdown ECW
Vs. Eddie Uncensored '97
Vs. Mysterio HH '96
Vs. Mysterio Nitro 7/8/96 
Vs. Mysterio GAB '96
Vs. Benoit SS '97
w/Benoit vs. Liger & El Samurai 3/9/93
w/Benoit vs. Raven & Saturn SS '99
Vs. Sliver King Thunder 6/4/98

And a crap-ton of Nitro matches that I can't remember love me some Dean-o. That intensity; that focus. So throwback. I accepted, even as a kid, that his style was an acquired taste: Mat-based, and out of step with the neon-colored "Hey, look at me!" feel of the era. Guys like him, Regal, and Benoit all drew me in because they made it "feel" real in their approach, often sacrificing the showmanship most fans are accustomed to, but whatever. Iceman cometh! :agree:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

ATF said:


> Well, the commentators TOOK SELFIES IN THE MIDDLE OF A MATCH before, so what do you honestly expect from those three dumbasses nowadays? HHH took his time to troll the internet with those 9.99$ jokes, and if the trio already overplugged in a normal days, how much would they in an episode w/as big of a cue as that. Most shameful thing is that they CAN be good - they were good during Shield/Wyatts II or during Orton/Batista/Bryan.


Yeah, you're right. I can imagine Vince in the back yelling at them on the headset to say $9.99 at least once per minute too :vince$

I need to watch that Heyman doc soon


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Thanks for the Malenko.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Finished the Heyman doc. Yeah, its fucking AWESOME. One of the best no doubt.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Great. Waiting for my copy to arrive. :mark:

Cal, is the promo from SD before Survivor Series 2001 edited?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

The Fab Four said:


> Great. Waiting for my copy to arrive. :mark:
> 
> Cal, is the promo from SD before Survivor Series 2001 edited?


No idea. I downloaded it, and it's just the documentary, no extras .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Pfft. 

Is the Brock/Cena video package from Raw on YT anyone know? Just want to DL it to show someone.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes, there is:





And regarding Heyman's doc, it sure looked great on promos, but eh, Cal's hyping it so I can't let myself be fooled. He may dissapoint again :side:

Anyways, I'm up for a ZAYN marathon (seen some El Generico earlier today, more exactly Final Battle '10 vs Steen and Epic Encounter 3 vs Hero), so now I'm up for some Zayn. Rewatched first the polarizing match from November last year against Neville, which Cody calls garbage but he's overreacting hard. Match is a fun and competitive battle between two guys with very similar styles who just do a lot of cool shit to beat the other. Simple but works. Don't see why the match gets 'garbage' touting. And now I'm seeing a live match in Berlin against SANDOW. :mark:. I'm a Sandow mark, and one of the few who thinks Sandow is GOOD (not just decent) in the ring in this board, so this is a dream match for me. Let's see how it goes.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:mark: Thanks.

I did upload El Generico vs Daniel Bryan the other day.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I've read amazing things about the Heyman documentary. I haven't bought a WWE DVD since... I think the CM Punk one a while ago. I think I'll be purchasing this Heyman one, though.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Following up WM22 with Backlash '06. Still figuring out this star rating thing...

Carlito vs. Chris Masters - **1/4
Ric Flair vs. Umaga - ** 1/4
Mickie James vs. Trish Stratus - *3/4 
Shelton Benjamin vs. RVD - **1/2
Big Show vs. Kane - *3/4
Vince & Shane McMahon vs. Shawn Michaels & God - ***
John Cena vs. Triple H vs. Edge - ****1/4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Here's a help with those star ratings given you haven't fully figured them out yet:

***** - Virtually perfect
****3/4, ****1/2 - Fucking incredible
****1/4, ***3/4 - Really great
***1/2 - Very good
***1/4, *** - Pretty good
**3/4, **1/2, **1/4 - Decent
**, *3/4, *1/2 - Meh
*1/4, * - Bad
3/4*, 1/2*, 1/4* - Really bad
DUD - Total shit


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just went on Amazon and realized you can stream the new Heyman doc in HD for only $3.99. Sounds like a better option than buying it. I'm gonna watch it now I'll report back in 2 hours


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Star Ratings:

***** - As perfect as you can get
****3/4-****1/2 - Classic
****1/4-**** - Awesome
***3/4-***1/2 - Great
***1/4-*** - Good

And then there's everything else that I don't keep track of unless it's some big match/I remember it for one reason or another. Hell, I don't really keep track of anything below ***1/2.

Edit: I bought the Heyman doc <_<


----------



## Certified G (Feb 1, 2011)

Goddamn, that Paul Heyman documentary was so fucking good. :banderas


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'll definitely be buying the Heyman doc on bluray at some point... when it's cheaper. Prices are fucking atrocious in the UK now thanks to fucking fremantle. Been a while since I slammed them, so to make up for it...

FUCK YOU FREMANTLE. FUCK YOU AND YOUR SHITTY PRICES. FUCK YOU AND YOUR LACK OF GOOD SALES. FUCK YOU FOR FUCKING UP THE GREAT THING WE HAD WITH SILVERVISION. FUCK YOU FOR MAKING THE ENTIRE WWE LIBRARY OUT OF FUCKING PRINT FROM EVERYTHING PRIOR TO LIKE 2012 OR SOMETHING. FUCK YOU.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Emotion Blur said:


> Following up WM22 with Backlash '06. Still figuring out this star rating thing...
> 
> Carlito vs. Chris Masters - **1/4
> Ric Flair vs. Umaga - ** 1/4
> ...


I had the main event at *** 3/4 because of Cena no-selling getting punched below the belt (otherwise a **** match) and the tag match at ** 1/2, our ratings are identical, if my memory serves me well.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> I'll definitely be buying the Heyman doc on bluray at some point... when it's cheaper. Prices are fucking atrocious in the UK now thanks to fucking fremantle. Been a while since I slammed them, so to make up for it...
> 
> FUCK YOU FREMANTLE. FUCK YOU AND YOUR SHITTY PRICES. FUCK YOU AND YOUR LACK OF GOOD SALES. FUCK YOU FOR FUCKING UP THE GREAT THING WE HAD WITH SILVERVISION. FUCK YOU FOR MAKING THE ENTIRE WWE LIBRARY OUT OF FUCKING PRINT FROM EVERYTHING PRIOR TO LIKE 2012 OR SOMETHING. FUCK YOU.







:troll

But yeah. Zayn/Sandow from Berlin was good - for what it was. The one I watched was cut short and with a cam that missed out on a lot. Still good, LOVED Sandow's antics, hot crowd and Zayn was Zayn. What more could you ask? Oh yeah, A BETTER FUCKING CAMERA :side:. Moving on, is Zayn/Gabriel any good?


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Ambrose/Alberto Doritos was really good


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Zayn/Gabriel is pretty good, but Zayn/Neville vs Gabriel/Kidd is awesome.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

There is another house show upload with Zayn/Sandow, if you want to resit through it, ATF. Of course it is the same match but I am sure it was the entire thing. 

Would only be able to get around to the finding the link in the morning (we're in the same time zone right?), though. Lemme know. 

Sent from Verticalsports.com Free App


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm kinda miffed that nothing from the Zayn/Dolph dark match aired, yet we get the Zayn/Neville dark match in full when it was exactly their NXT match. :side:


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Star Ratings:
> 
> ***** - As perfect as you can get
> ****3/4-****1/2 - Classic
> ...


I've always rated matches like this:

*****- Perfection. Wouldn't change a single aspect of the match, plus at some point in the match I got goosebumps from what I was seeing.

****3/4-Close to perfect with maybe 1 single flaw like a horrid finish (See Cena/Lesnar) or absolutely perfect but at no point did I get chills watching it (See Benoit/Finlay JD 06')

****1/2- Classic, all time great match.

****1/4-****- Greatness. I won't call a match great unless it's a ****+ match.

***3/4- Very, Very, Good, but short of great.

***1/2-Very Good

***1/4-***- Good

**3/4-**- Watchable, but short of being a good match

*3/4-1/4*- Skip it, not worth watching

DUD- An affront to professional wrestling as a whole. When something gets a DUD, I feel actual anger at wasting my time having watched such trash.

My rating system is right, you all are wrong! 




The Corre said:


> Goddamn, that Paul Heyman documentary was so fucking good. :banderas


Oh man, just finished and I totally agree. Easily in the top 5 for best docs WWE has ever produced, in the same class as the Punk and Foley docs which are the gold standard IMO.

So yea, highly reccomend everyone check out "Ladies and Gentleman, My Name is Paul Heyman". Either download it if you can, buy it in a store, or jet over to Amazon.com and stream it for $3.99 in HD. Well worth it. 

One thing that constantly pisses me off is, how Steph ALWAYS alludes to the fact that Paul lost his job as head writer for Smackdown because he couldn't adapt to the creative team. Um, I'm sorry Steph, but if Heyman producing the show results in the 2003 Season of Smackdown, and the "creative team model" writing of Smackdown results in every other year...um, shouldn't everyone else just shut the fuck up and let Heyman run the show how he wants? Smackdown in 2003 is the single greatest year ever for WWE television, only Raw in 2004 comes close (and it's really not THAT close). Listing to Steph indict Paul for his unwillingness to cave and making him the bad guy for standing up for what he believes in just makes everyone that works in WWE appear to be stupid. Why argue or fight someone who get results? Heymans track record says he's right FAR more often than he's wrong when it comes to identifying talent, developing talent, and writing a wrestling show. So why can't Vince just check his ego at the door, focus all his attention on Raw, and leave the "B" show to Heyman? Ugh.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I havn't watched Raw yet, but why did Slater beat Rollins?


----------



## Vic Capri (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Angle*

Vs. Lesnar - SummerSlam 2003
Vs. Guerrero - Wrestlemania XX
Vs. Michaels - Wrestlemania XXI
Vs. Undertaker - No Way Out 2006
Vs. Sting - Bound For Glory 2007

Honorable mention: Royal Rumble 2003

- Vic


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yay, someone mentioned Angle/Sting :mark: A match that could have happened at WM18 if Sting would have signed.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

ATF said:


> The first SVS PPV's a chore?! I know this is all opinion, but dude, SVS 1987/88 were two of the best PPV events the company has pretty much ever produced. And 89 was decent as well. Super consistent in quality, the SVS matches presented were more often than not good, and you got to see those batshit crazy 20-Man Tags that were just phenomenal. How can you find that boring?


I don't really like the format, find it too predictable. Granted, I only watched 88' so far. Looking at my database again, my favorite from that show was Megapowers vs. Million dollar team. Bam Bam looked like a star:mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Top 5 Kurt Angle matches for me would likely be:

vs Austin - SummerSlam 2001
vs Brock - SummerSlam 2003
vs Undertaker - No Way Out 2006
vs Benoit - Royal Rumble 2003

Number 5 would likely be a tie between the Ironman match with Brock and Smackdown 2003 match with Undertaker.

Will have to watch the Heyman doc when watchwrestling has it up.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The early Survivor Series shows were decent-good for their time, but wrestling has evolved from the fossil ages. Those shows don't hold up well today at all. Like there were more good matches in Battleground than there were in any of the early SvS PPVs.

WWE elimination matches in general just aren't that impressive.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Top 5 Kurt Angle matches for me would likely be:
> 
> vs Austin - SummerSlam 2001
> vs Brock - SummerSlam 2003
> ...



Close to mine, just a little different:

1. Vs Austin SS 2001 *****
2. Vs Undertaker Smackdown 2003 ****3/4
3. Vs Undertaker No Way Out 2006 ****3/4
4. Vs Brock Lesnar Summerslam 2003 ****1/2
5. Vs Benoit Backlash 2001 ****1/2

After that, I'd probably have his Genesis 2006 match with Samoa Joe, the Ironman with Lesnar, his SS 2002 match with Rey Mysterio, and his Raw 2005 match with Ric Flair.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

1. Benoit RR 03 *****
2. Austin SS 01 ****3/4
3. Taker NWO 06 ****1/2
4. Lesnar SD 03 ****1/2
5. Undertaker SD 03 ****


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

:lmao Jim Ross called Brooke Hogan a young man. And Sabu vs. Big Show was actually pretty fun. Edge/Cena was very good too. Summerslam 2006 is better than I remember. Still one of the weaker editions of the franchise.

I have so far found 26 good Great Khali matches. Only 24 more to go until my project is complete ::dance

Heath Slater has been on a roll. And Jack Swagger and Alberto Del Rio had a double turn on Main Event :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Fab Four said:


> I havn't watched Raw yet, but why did Slater beat Rollins?


The Authority pulled Van Dam from the match and inserted Slater. Ambrose then came out to ringside after the bell rang, stole Rollins' briefcase, dumped a bunch of shit in it to distract him, and Slater eventually got the win. I loved it.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

Were there smarks in the NWA in 1990 or is WWE's editing crew playing tricks on me? I'm watching Wrestlewar 1990 right now and someone in the front row has a "We've HERD Enough" sign. I googled Jim Herd and he was running the company at this time.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

1. vs Austin SS 01 (****3/4)
2. vs Taker SD 03 (****1/2)
3. vs Brock SS 03 (****1/2)
4. vs Taker NWO 06 (****1/4)
5. vs Eddie WM20 or vs Mysterio SS 02 (****1/4)


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

TaylorFitz said:


> Were there smarks in the NWA in 1990 or is WWE's editing crew playing tricks on me? I'm watching Wrestlewar 1990 right now and someone in the front row has a "We've HERD Enough" sign. I googled Jim Herd and he was running the company at this time.


Yeah, it kind of throws you off when you see that stuff. There's a WCW house show from 1992 where the guy running the camera and his friend talk about Dusty finishes (he said something like "Dusty's shadow looms over the arena"), and stuff that Giant Baba was doing in All Japan, etc.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Yeah, it kind of throws you off when you see that stuff. There's a WCW house show from 1992 where the guy running the camera and his friend talk about Dusty finishes (he said something like "Dusty's shadow looms over the arena"), and stuff that Giant Baba was doing in All Japan, etc.


Is that from the Liger/Pillman Handheld? I recall the two smarks videotaping that match talking about those things.

More importantly though, do you agree with the statement that Sabu and Sandman were equally good/shitty wrestlers as Shawn Michaels in the mid-2000s?


EDIT: Guys, don't watch Smackdown. And you may not want to watch Summerslam either.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

TaylorFitz said:


> Were there smarks in the NWA in 1990 or is WWE's editing crew playing tricks on me? I'm watching Wrestlewar 1990 right now and someone in the front row has a "We've HERD Enough" sign. I googled Jim Herd and he was running the company at this time.


WON has been published since like 83. It's not too ludicrous to think that people attending stadiums were in the loop in that capacity, especially when it's an NWA event, since they provided a better in-ring product most of the time.



> Guys, don't watch Smackdown. And you may not want to watch Summerslam either.


Will it be worse than RAW? I turned on RAW and was greeted by a 10 minute promo, which made me turn it off.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I thought it was from 1992, not really positive; could be the 91 show.

I don't remember the last 2000s Sandman match I even watched. Haven't seen 2000s Sabu since I watched the MLW shows over two years ago. I remember the Sabu/Parka matches on those shows being fun though, doubt there are many 2000s Michaels matches I like more. Still I won't say here or there. I wouldn't be surprised if they were both as good as Michaels, though. I mean my opinion on 2000s Michaels isn't high. Especially pre-07.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

JustJoel said:


> I can't remember the Jarrett/Malenko match, but I completely disagree about everything being shit. Jarrett got fucking *heat* in WCW in '97. I'd go as far as saying that he's probably worked many a smark doing PPV reviews 15-20 years _after_ he worked the live audience. I mean, the guy is nothing special in the ring technically, but he's one of the best true heels of the last 20 years. _Everybody_ hates Jarrett:lol
> 
> I remember there's a Nitro match from '97 against Booker T, and it was the damnedest thing I ever saw. Jarrett playing the crowd like a fiddle - so much great character heel work. The place fucking explodes for Booker T's roll-up win outa nowhere. I mean an asses-leave-seats explosion - on par with him winning the WHC the first time. It's damn epic, and just shows how a great heel can work a crowd. Then there's the modern-day Double-J in a poncho and sombrero, throwing tortillas at fans in AAA recently. :lmao Fans chucking FULL cups of beer at Jarrett (who, of course, brought the ever-wretched Karen Angle with him). Too much :lol
> 
> Like I said, he's not someone you watch to study the details of execution or technical prowess, but you watch him for the character and psychology of working a crowd. He used so much of it (some/most(?)/all(?!?) borrowed from :flair3 )


tbf, this statement can fit for so many people during WCW's high point. Guys who didn't even have that much behind em were making the fans ERUPT. Martel vs Eddie in January of '98 comes to mind. Its old man Martel who was hammerlocks only & shit pardon this match vs Eddie who was in limbo despite being the heel or heels in '97. Yet once Martel put the Boston Crab on Eddie and won, the fans went insane. _(they were hot the entire match too)_ You couldn't believe it. Still no exact reason why they ate it up that they did, other than WCW fans would just get so into the matches, it was a welcomed frenzy.

No denying Jarrett can work a crowd, but his garbage in '97 is something I never ever want to see again. Putrid.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

That crowd during the awesome Regal/Psychosis match still makes no sense to me. But then again, the match rules, so they have every reason to give both guys ovations. So it makes perfect sense.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Any random implementing of Ultimo Dragon winning a championship when he went babyface got a rousing reaction too & it was shocking b/c he was just showing up & working exhibition matches. Again, never minded, but the wonderment of those WCW audiences erupting on a whim sure is something.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Juventud Guerrera in the middle of 98 was as over as any babyface on the roster except Goldberg. Loved hearing the crowd reactions in his matches. And Lodi. Dude knew how to draw heat. Saturn's defection from the Flock was also met with some real nice reactions. Man, there's nothing like WCW crowds.

I didn't know Sabu and La Parka had matches together. They must rule. Sabu really isn't as bad as people say he is. He passes the first test of wrestling, which is whether or not you're fun to watch. He passes the second test too, which is having a good match with a bad wrestler (Danny Doring). And he's good in David vs. Goliath situations. Sandman may be a poor worker, but he too can be very fun. Fills his role perfectly and has some nice facial expressions, especially when he's in danger. Sandman/Dreamer vs. Test/Knox is awesome. And Mike Knox. I was wrong for thinking he sucked. He too plays his role very well. Brutal.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Sabu sucks. I can have fun w/wrestlecrap, but at least try. He openly doesn't care to expose anything.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

Sabu *can* be good. It's just that the vast majority of the time, he doesn't care to be. He's fun to watch when he actually tries, or when he botches, I guess.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

That Heyman DVD :mark: loved it.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Sweet baby Jesus, the SD spoilers made me want to sell my damn SummerSlam ticket. 



Spoiler: SUMMERSLAM STUFF



Why a lumberjack match? Might as well have done a singles match :side:


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

PGSucks said:


> Sweet baby Jesus, the SD spoilers made me want to sell my damn SummerSlam ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


tagreed the only thing I can think of


Spoiler: summerslam



The match is done so Rollins can't escape but a cage match would make more sense and didn't Rollins want this match anyway? stupid.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Spoiler: summerslam



Fucking stupid match, imo. I said it in another thread. Why the fuck would a LUNATIC like DEAN AMBROSE settle for a fucking lumberjack match!? Why not a falls count anywhere, no holds barred, ladder match for the briefcase, strap match, etc, if he doesn't want him to escape, why not a STEEL FUCKING CAGE? A fucking lumberjack match!? fpalm this fucking company lately.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Spoiler:  SummerSlam, which you can view LIVE on the double u double u E Network, for only $9.99!



I don't even care that they didn't pick a big stipulation, I care that lumberjack is a shitty gimmick and that they would've been far better off just wrestling a regular singles match.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

This just re-affirms that WWE's creative right now is dog shit.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

That and the mess that is Stephanie vs. Brie, which somehow closes RAW.

Oh, and the fact that they did Swagger vs. Del Rio on Main Event LIKE AN HOUR AWAY FROM MEXICO :lol :lmao :lel


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Man, WWE is fucking up. :chappelle


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

PGSucks said:


> Sweet baby Jesus, the SD spoilers made me want to sell my damn SummerSlam ticket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For fuck sake. Why do they make it so difficult. Watch them fuck Brock/Cena up somehow too.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm holding out hope that they change that stipulation on RAW.


----------



## Novak Djokovic (Jun 28, 2011)

The Heyman doc really is excellent.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

At least we'll always have BLOOD, URINE, & VOMIT.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That doesn't really matter when I'll have to settle for...



Spoiler: Summerslam



Ambrose/Rollins being a *FUCKING LUMBERJACK MATCH*. OF ALL THE FUCKING STIPULATIONS THEY COULD CHOOSE, THEY GO WITH THAT?


This fucking company gets more stupid day after day fpalm. Now I've read that they also wanna start doing Raw and SD on the same night. Because that totally won't completely burn out the wrestlers.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

ATF said:


> That doesn't really matter when I'll have to settle for...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't think it will matter too much. They'll only have to film about 30 minutes of wrestling and promos for Smackdown! anyway. They can edit in all the recaps later.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I don't think that's really how it works regarding Smackdown. I would like to think that AT THE VERY LEAST one hour of the show is not Raw recaps 

Anyway, you were discussing top 5 :usangle, right?

1) vs Austin, SummerSlam 2001 - *****
2) vs Taker, No Way Out 2006 - ****3/4
3) vs Taker, Smackdown 9/4/2003 - ****3/4
4) vs Lesnar, Iron Man match - ****1/2
5) vs Lesnar, SummerSlam 2003 - ****1/2
HM's: Unforgiven '01 against Austin, Backlash '01 against Benoit and BFG '07 against Sting.

What about the top 5 BLOOD URINE & VOMIT? :brock

1) vs Cena, Extreme Rules 2012 - ****3/4 (I've FINALLY given up on it being ***** on last watch)
2) vs Taker, No Mercy 2002 - ****3/4
3) vs Eddie, No Way Out 2004 - ****3/4
4) vs Punk, SummerSlam 2013 - ****3/4
5) vs Angle, Iron Man match - ****1/2
HM's: SummerSlam '03 against Angle, Smackdown December '03 against Benoit and SummerSlam '02 against Rock.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Wouldn't a steel cage match make more sense given the feud so far? Also given that it was Ambroses' decision.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I like to think No DQ would have been sufficient enough for their first match w/o giving away too much. Ambrose to explain it as a _"no strings attached, you have to beat me"_ type of reason. Then go on from there as it continues.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah good point. They could always then do a cage match at NOC or at HIAC.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just wait, Brock vs Cena.......IN A POLE MATCH! :vince3

There has only been 1, count em, 1 classic match with the stip that Ambrose/Rollins has been given that I can think of, and that match occurred 21 years ago and had 2 of the 20 greatest wrestlers ever involved. I have all the faith in the world that Ambrose/Rollins will do their damnedest and still deliver, but man talk about handcuffing the guys for no good reason. This reeks of WM 25 when Hunter and Orton got handcuffed by that god awful "If he is DQ'd he loses the title" stip.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

God bless Vader and Steamboat for giving us such a great match despite the stupid stipulation. Only other one off the top of my head I remember as being remotely good was Sheamus/Show from the Christmas Raw.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There have been some more good matches for that stipulation, but good isn't enough. Even I, the guy that likes current wrestling more than anyone here, can't stand this. Now I know that I won't watch Summerslam. I'm afraid that this is going to be like TLC where too much focus will be put on the main event, and the undercard will be purposely booked not to be brutal and physical in order to make the main event look good.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, at least there was some good stuff to be had at the TLC undercard (Handicap matches and Tag Title 4-way). So maybe this year's SS's undercard may have good stuff in it as well. Just... well, after the WWE proved themselves to be the most moronic company I could think of, not Ambrose/Rollins it seems. Fuck, I can't get it off my head, it could've been something like Falls Count Anywhere, Steel Cage, MITB Ladder, Street Fight/No Holds Barred/whatever the fuck the name would be - any of those would make more sense, and probably would've had a far better chance of being the classic those two deserve to have than... yeah, the stipulation they're going with. I hope that the fans outrage enough to make the WWE come into their senses and change the gimmick on Raw.

Anyway, I'm now downloading the Heyman doc. With all the hype it has currently, I'm quite looking forward to it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

So.. are we spoiling Smackdown now? I'm just gonna use the tags to be safe. 



Spoiler: Smackdown



Yeah I was pretty confused as to why we would have to wait almost a week to hear an announcement like that. What made even less sense to me is that the spoilers I read claimed there were only 3 taped matches and the main event ended in a non-finish. 3 MATCHES!?



I have still faith that these two can pull off something crazy entertaining, but it won't be easy.


----------



## Ryan193 (Jan 30, 2012)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> So.. are we spoiling Smackdown now? I'm just gonna use the tags to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler: Smackdown



Apparently Orton-Ambrose goes nearly half an hour.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

A Lumberjack match :jordan4 (think most of us in here read the spoiler, and who watches smackdown when it airs ?) anyways Why do I think they are saving this feud even more and this match will be more of a feud advancer ?

Guys who read the dirt sheets , I know there is a few in here . What is the latest on ADR's contract ? Thought the guy was done in July.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

I assume that the WWE used Rosa and Cesaro in the press conference announcing their annual Mexican tour rather than Del Rio in case they couldn't come to an agreement on his contract. However I'm sure I saw the promotional poster for their tour, a day or two ago, and it had Del Rio on it. Either he's resigned or he's just working extra days until the tour is finished. I don't think he's a big enough name to jump at this stage, anyway. His return would most probably be overshadowed by Sin Cara and Rey being signed by AAA.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Spoiler: SD/SummerSlam



Lumberjack is an underwhelming stip to say the least and to be perfectly honest they couldn't have done much worse in terms of choosing a match type for these two but ya know what, it's Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins fighting. I have faith.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

^^^ What Dick said. Still looking forward to the match, just not quite as much as before. Here's to hopeful thinking that these two settle the score inside Hell in a Cell. 

I sure hope Del Rio doesn't go anywhere. Despite the fact that he's not gonna do much for you storyline wise or on PPV, he's still a good hand when it comes to working TV matches to aide the young guys and put them over (as he's shown recently with Ambrose and Reigns). With Bryan & Barrett presumably injured for the rest of the year and with the loss of Punk, I'm not sure if the company can really lose too many more established workers. Even with the possible full time returns of Mark Henry & Big Show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I think faith isn't enough to have come Summerslam time. We should also have tissues to wipe out the many tears, because the WWE fucked up a royal opportunity at an all-time classic in the history of their 2nd biggest show.

But I guess it is what it fucking is. Now, can I just say that this Heyman doc was *FUCKING AMAZING*? It's gotta be one of if not THE best that the company ever produced. Just brilliant, w/a lot of insight, information and even emotion, and it feels about as good as a Paul Heyman doc should. Incredible work, WWE.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Interesting to note the Heyman set is 3 discs and Walmart is only selling it for $15. Assuming that it's because he's not an actual wrestler.  I'd probably buy it if they had put some matches on there where he's a manager instead of an actual participant.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm probably speaking as a selfish bastard since I downloaded it rather than buy it (MUHAHAHAHAHAAAA 8*D), but I think it MIGHT be worth $15 for the documentary alone. That is 2 hours of pure bliss. Truly an emotional and smart insight on one of wrestling's biggest masterminds.

Anyway, we all talk about how 2001 is the greatest in-ring year in WWE history. How would your top 10 MOTY for 01 would look like?

For me...
1) Rock/Austin WM - *****
2) Austin/Angle SS - *****
3) Austin/Benoit SD - ****3/4
5) Benoit/Jericho RR - ****1/2
6) Powertrip/Ben & Jerry - ****1/2
7) TLC III - ****1/2
8) TLC II - ****1/2
9) Austin/Angle UF - ****1/4
10) Angle/Benoit BL - ****1/4


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of 2001, I have a slight urge to watch the Angle/Benoit cage match.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I love that match because of the hilarious debate it spewed many years ago.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Heyman doc gets even better with the bluray extras. Another hour and a half or so of interview footage :mark:. Some awesome stories :lmao.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

1. TLC II - *****
2. Benoit vs Jericho RR - *****
3. Austin vs Angle SS - ****3/4
4. Austin vs HHH NWO - ****3/4
5. Austin vs Rock WM17 - ****1/2
6. Benoit vs Austin SD - ****1/2
7. Powertrip vs Benoit and Jericho - ****1/4
8. Vince vs Shane WM17 - ****1/4
9. TLC III - ****1/4
10. Austin vs Angle UF - ****1/4


----------



## iverson19 (Feb 18, 2005)

Anyone know a good site that sells best of/compilations?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Anyone any good at making custom dvd covers? I need one making but im useless at it. I have the template, pictures and information for it.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

These 2001 lists are missing Jericho vs. Rock from No Mercy. Last time I watched that I thought it was incredible and went **** 3/4 on it. What a joy.

The real Smackdown spoilers have came out and there are in fact more than 3 matches. Non-spoiler match listing:



Spoiler: Match listing



Sin Cara vs. Damien Sandow
Seth Rollins vs. Dolph Ziggler
Paige vs. Natalya
Dust Brothers vs. RyBaxel AGAINNNNNN
Randy Orton vs. Dean Amborse


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> These 2001 lists are missing Jericho vs. Rock from No Mercy. Last time I watched that I thought it was incredible and went **** 3/4 on it. What a joy.
> 
> The real Smackdown spoilers have came out and there are in fact more than 3 matches. Non-spoiler match listing:
> 
> ...


Totally agree. Here is mine:

1. Austin vs Angle Summerslam *****
2. Jericho vs Benoit RR *****
3. Austin vs Benoit SD ****3/4
4. Austin vs The Rock WM ****3/4
5. Power Trip vs Ben & Jerry Raw ****3/4
6. TLC III ****3/4
7. Jericho vs The Rock No Mercy ****1/2
8. Austin vs Angle Unforgiven ****1/4
9. Austin vs Angle Raw ****1/4
10. Austin vs Benoit Raw ****1/4
11. SVS Elimination Tag ****1/4
12. Benoit vs Angle Backlash ****1/4
13. BoD vs Power Trip Backlash ****1/4
14. Austin vs Undertaker Judgement Day ****1/4
15. Benoit vs Angle WM ****

Just to recap, Austin is in 7 of my top 10 matches for the year and 10 out of the top 15, including the 3rd best match in WWE history (vs Angle at SS) and the 2nd best TV match in WWE history (vs Benoit on SD). Wake me when someone else EVER has another run like that. Unreal. Flair in 1989 and Austin in 2001 are the only acceptable answers for "who has had the best single year run match quality wise in US wrestling history?"

Also, there is a VERY good chance Austin might have been topped by Benoit in that year if he hadn't gotten injured. Benoit is in 5 of my top 10 and 8 of my top 15 and he only wrestled for half the year.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Austin 2001 is my favorite run of all time. Flair 1989 is the greatest, but Austin is my all-time favorite wrestler for 2001 ALONE. Hell, I would dare to say for his performance on SummerSlam 2001 ALONE. Contender for greatest heel performance of all fucking time in that match. 

And I also seem to be a bigger fan of Rock/Austin WM 17 than anybody here. I don't care if it was too "weaponsy" or its ending sucked, this is a match I mark the fuck out for since the first time I watch, will forever the fuck out forever I'll watch it and has WAY, WAY too much good in it for me to call it anything less than fucking perfect. Same thing with Taker/HHH HIAC - don't think its perfect though, but I get chills watching that and I don't understand the disliking that match has taken from some people.

Benoit of course, who wrestled for 1/2 of 2001, also had an incredible run. And not to go unnoticed, KURT ANGLE of all people had a great 2001 as well, his career year by far.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Chris Jericho destroyed 2001. On a week to week basis, nobody was better. Not even Austin.

The Angle/Benoit Cage match sucked. Not because lolpsychology, but because it was boring. Super boring.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I have Austin/Rock at ***** too tbh. I'll always fucking love it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Jericho is also a good nomination for 2001 ass-kickers, definitely. And this one doesn't get mentioned as much, but I really think that RVD had a swell 2001 for himself, in the many Hardcore Title matches he was in (yes, that does include the spotty and somewhat retarded but still FUN SS Ladder match :side.

Having seen a recap video of it, since I've recently seen the whole show and this was a little reminder, I have it assured that SS 2003 is the most underrated SummerSlam of all time:

Resistance/Dudleys: DUD
Taker/A-Train: ***
Shane/Bischoff: *
Eddie/Benoit/Tajiri/Rhyno: ****
Angle/Lesnar: ****1/2
Kane/RVD: 1/2*
Elimination Chamber: ***1/4

Horrible opener and Kane/RVD matches aside, Shane/Bischoff is one of the best worst matches ever, Taker/A-Train is smash-mouth badass, the Elimination Chamber is incredible fun (GOLDBERG :mark despite the meh ending and two ****+ matches in the form of the insanely good 4-Way, contender for greatest match of its kind and one of SD 2003's biggest gems even if it is well known, and then the even more insanely good Angle/Lesnar. I do think its predecessor, the WM 19 match, is very good (***1/2 imo), but this one outclasses it so much it's not even hilarious. And so does the GOAT Iron Man match. If they didn't have their 2007 Japan DUD (which that's I what I consider it, a DUD), their record together would've been kinda perfect. Big shame. Still, really good SummerSlam, maybe one of the best ones ever, and kinda disgraceful how underrated it is.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

funnyfaces1 said:


> The Angle/Benoit Cage match sucked. Not because lolpsychology, but because it was boring. Super boring.


lol, to me that match is EVERYTHING opposite of "boring". One of those matches I can watch at any time and be super entertained by.

Top 10 matches for 2001:

Austin vs Rock - WM17
Benoit vs Jericho - RR
Austin vs Benoit - Smackdown
Austin & HHH vs Ben & Jerry - Raw
Austin vs Angle - SS
Rock vs Jericho - NM
TLC III - Smackdown
TLC II - WM17
Benoit vs Angle - Backlash
Austin vs Benoit - Raw

Would probably be something like this.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

About Austin/Rock: I love the match, hate the heel turn.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Interesting to note the Heyman set is 3 discs and Walmart is only selling it for $15. Assuming that it's because he's not an actual wrestler.  I'd probably buy it if they had put some matches on there where he's a manager instead of an actual participant.


At least you have it in stores there. Here we get pretty much no new wrestling docs in stores. I think the last one was The Rock's.

I've had to purchase Punk's and Austin's on amazon, and even amazon.ca says the Heyman blu-ray wouldn't ship for 1-2 months *(WTF?* so I have to purchase it on WWEShop.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Let's just both direct our anger towards the UK, who get EVERTHING in blu ray and it's always fucking exclusive to them. Assholes. :side:


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

The Fab Four said:


> Wouldn't a steel cage match make more sense given the feud so far? Also given that it was Ambroses' decision.


Anything would make more fucking sense but this is the fucking WWE.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

From what I remember, La Resistance vs Dudleys was SUPER HOT & the only La Resistance match in their entire career that was actually worth a damn. And Kane vs RVD was better than a lot of Shawn Michaels matches.

These 2001 lists are lacking Kane vs Albert matches.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Watched Survivor Series 2002 for like the 100th time the other day.

Dudleys & Jeff Hardy vs 3 Minute Warning & Rico - ***
Billy Kidman vs Jamie Noble - **1/2
Victoria vs Trish - **
Big Show vs Brock Lesnar - *1/2 (Great angle, bad match)
Los Guerreros vs Edge & Rey vs Benoit & Angle - ****1/2
Elimination Chamber - ****


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Let's just both direct our anger towards the UK, who get EVERTHING in blu ray and it's always fucking exclusive to them. Assholes. :side:


Yeah but we pay triple the price you guys do .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Bah. Resistance/Dudleys was something I just couldn't get into at all, despite some hot portions. And aside from a few cool spots, Kane/RVD was sloppy and suffered from RVD's spot stupidity. There are quite a few HBK matches that are worse but A LOT? This thread has gone insane with the Shawn hate :hbk2


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A lot by definition that people want to be lunatics and think are any good, so sure.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dudleys/Frenchies is a DUD and Kane/RVD is 1/4*. Awful, awful matches.

Unforgiven Dudleys Vs La Resistance in a handicap tables match is where it's at though. Super fun stuff.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Ok, I didn't fully understood what you said there (given that I don't have the best English anyway, it isn't even my mother language ), but I'll try to give it a twist, and I'll say what I believe who lunatics really are - those who think Kane/RVD is any good, that's who they are. I can name a few HBK matches worse, certainly not A LOT though.

Good thing that you called upon Kane/Albert as goodies from 2001 though, but I don't think I'd put those as the best matches of 2001. Going by that direction, 97% of the Hardcore Title matches should be amongst the best of 01 too. Jeff/RVD from Invasion which I just watched for example :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Kane vs Albert is great stuff to me. Great = in league w/"best". Not a stretch. I'm not one of those guys who will see a five minute match, but feel obligated to choose the 20 minute match from a PPV over it b/c it got more time & exposure.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I think Cody is really the only one who displays Shawn hate in here, so most of us are sane. 

Watched the Henry/Hardy rematch from ECW a few days after Summerslam '08. Wasn't exactly blown away by it (I believe Yeah called it nipple-wetting) but I thought it was pretty good. Probably would've liked it a tad bit more if my Dailymotion link wasn't shit. Couple good spots and the usual dominance from Henry, but nothing I thought was standout. Probably go *** 1/4 for it.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Kane/Albert likely wouldn't make my top 10 for 01, but they are still 2 awesome matches. It's just that 01 has a ton of great shit .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Kane/Albert from SD is a blast IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

You know who else had a great match with Kane in 2001? TEST. No Mercy '01 man, good show.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Much like Cal, I wouldn't consider Kane/Albert matches "great" but I certainly consider them a blast, only that they're overshadowed by much better stuff all over the year. 

NO MERCY 2001. The show where Jericho finally wins the big one. Not even the best NM PPV of all time, but a damn good show nonetheless.

Still, there was a better B-PPV from that year, and no it wasn't No Way Out. BACKLASH. Speaking of which, time to rewatch Rhyno/Raven from Backlash. Let's see how it holds up. :mark:


----------



## MoxleyMoxx (Sep 24, 2012)

Just got done watching the new Paul Heyman DVD and it was every bit as good as you'd expect it to be. Really interesting stuff. Truly one of my favorite personalities in wrestling history. Really recommend everyone to give it a watch if you can. Well worth the 2 hours.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

ATF said:


> Still, there was a better B-PPV from that year, and no it wasn't No Way Out. BACKLASH. Speaking of which, time to rewatch Rhyno/Raven from Backlash. Let's see how it holds up. :mark:


Not sure about the match as a whole, but the Gore through the shopping cart will remain one of my favorite spots of all time forever.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> I think Cody is really the only one who displays Shawn hate in here, so most of us are sane.
> 
> Watched the Henry/Hardy rematch from ECW a few days after Summerslam '08. Wasn't exactly blown away by it (I believe Yeah called it nipple-wetting) but I thought it was pretty good. Probably would've liked it a tad bit more if my Dailymotion link wasn't shit. Couple good spots and the usual dominance from Henry, but nothing I thought was standout. Probably go *** 1/4 for it.


Go buy SummerSlam '08 on DVD b/c I think Hardy vs Henry from ECW is an extra. Watch it again in great quality and realize its value :mark:

Also: nipple-wetting is incredible.



#ROOT said:


> Kane/Albert likely wouldn't make my top 10 for 01, but they are still 2 awesome matches. It's just that 01 has a ton of great shit .


This is true. Company's best year for my money. My biggest disappointment looking back was Edge vs Christian series had bad matches. So, I was pleased w/the majority of the year, ha.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh the match as a whole is absolutely FUNking brilliant. SO. MUCH. ENTERTAINMENT. I legit shout HOLY SHIT everytime Rhyno Gores that shopping cart, and I legit laugh and mark everytime they hit each other with something in the head - which is over 9000 times in this match . To take one out of Cal's book, this was just FUNFUNFUNFUNFUNFUNFUN.

Also, rewatched RVD/Taker from Vengeance as well, and it absolutely fucking rules too, might just be the GOAT Hardcore Championship match ever. Even better than Jeff/RVD from Invasion. See, RVD was ON FIRE that year.

Now I'm out to watch Rhyno/Show/Test from Judgment Day and then RVD/Jericho from Unforgiven. HARDCORE CHAMPIONSHIP~!!! :mark:


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Were there any good Hardcore Title matches on TV in 01? I can't remember any and I've seen all the PPV matches too many times.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

2001 Hardcore Championship list

A whole list of positivity & fun. Undertaker vs Tajiri is a must.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Jeff Jarrett just made his Nitro debut.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

IT BEGINS.

Wait till Starrcade :booka


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks like I'm gonna do my 2001 year in review thing tonight. Gems galore. TAJIRI. Albert. Raven. RHYNO. Regal. And of course, Jericho killing the midcard, tag team, hardcore AND main event scene.

Shawn Michaels hate is deserved. In CM Punk's first month in the WWE, he had more good matches than Michaels did all throughout 2006. Maybe even 2005. I love Shawn, but let's call a spade a spade. He was bad at many extended points in his WWE career. Good thing he was a beast from 2007-2009.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I saw somebody bring up Test earlier, and I've always kinda liked Test. Anyone have a personal favorite Test match? vs Shane at SummerSlam 99 and vs Eddie at Mania 17 come to mind.

EDIT: Almost forgot vs Edge at Survivor Series 01.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Lesnar had a good little match against Test, forgot the date.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Watched Flair/Lesnar and Taker/Hardy from the 7/1/02 last night. Flair/Lesnar gets ***1/2, Taker/Hardy gets ****1/4. Both fucking great.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Lesnar/Test was from King Of The Ring 2002 iirc, Hitman. 

Ok, for reviews of the two HARDCORE CHAMPIONSHIP~ matches I've just watched...

Rhyno/Show/Test from Judgment Day '01 is, well, a typical Hardcore Title match - FUN, FUN, FUN and did I mention FUN? Takes a few pages from the books of the awesome Raven/Kane/Show match from WM 17, is smart and at same time HARDCORE, and has a badass (if on one hand kinda stupid) ending. Me likey! :mark: *RATING - ****

RVD/Jericho from Unforgiven '01 is actually different from the traditional Hardcore match. Sure, they do attempt some outside falls and they do good and actually very smart use of a ladder, but this match didn't really resemble a Hardcore match. It was a typical match where they used their own arsenal in a more physical way. Though the 2nd half of the match takes quite a few pages from the Benoit/Jericho Ladder match, that's not a bad thing at all when you think about it, and despite some miscommunications here and there, the wrestling is well blended into the ladder stuff and the initial armwork from the match actually plays into later in the match. Also, you get 2001 STEPHANIE at the end. Who is a contender for hottest WWE Diva of all time. So yeah, this was really good. *RATING - ***1/2*

HARDCORE MOTHERFUCKING CHAMPIONSHIP.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Was RVD vs Jericho even for the belt? I thought I remembered it being non-title for some reason.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Watched Flair/Lesnar and Taker/Hardy from the 7/1/02 last night. Flair/Lesnar gets ***1/2, Taker/Hardy gets ****1/4. Both fucking great.


oh hey

Ladder is probably my second favorite match of 02. Tremendous. Don'-t recall Flair vs Brock but I know it is on youtube. Hmm.



Crummy97 said:


> Was RVD vs Jericho even for the belt? I thought I remembered it being non-title for some reason.


It was for the Gold.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

I just ordered my Paul Heyman blu-ray on WWEShop (and a Lesnar tank). Next week can't come soon enough. :mark:


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Damn, forgot all about Brock vs Flair. Watched it a few days ago after downloading the full episode via XWT from the Network. Nothing special but pretty fun for the time it gets and just what you'd expect from this pairing.

Hardy vs Taker needs no introduction but there's also a RVD vs Regal match that I haven't watched yet as well as a tag match with Benoit and Eddie against Bubba Ray and Spike Dudley. Not as enjoyable as their Vengeance match but I liked it just fine too. These 2002 episodes look to be excellent once I get to them.

In the meantime, gonna finish One Night Only and the last Raw of September 97 before moving on to Badd Blood for the first ever HIAC. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I just love these Nitro's when the crowd throw shit in the ring. Hogan was beating down Savage and a can threw straight off his head lol, cracking shot. :lol


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> oh hey
> 
> Ladder is probably my second favorite match of 02. Tremendous. Don'-t recall Flair vs Brock but I know it is on youtube. Hmm.
> 
> ...


Hey. 

JR's commentary is unbelievable during Hardy/Taker. Sells the shit out of Jeff possibly winning.



Choke2Death said:


> Damn, forgot all about Brock vs Flair. Watched it a few days ago after downloading the full episode via XWT from the Network. Nothing special but pretty fun for the time it gets and just what you'd expect from this pairing.
> 
> Hardy vs Taker needs no introduction but there's also a RVD vs Regal match that I haven't watched yet as well as a tag match with Benoit and Eddie against Bubba Ray and Spike Dudley. Not as enjoyable as their Vengeance match but I liked it just fine too. These 2002 episodes look to be excellent once I get to them.
> 
> In the meantime, gonna finish One Night Only and the last Raw of September 97 before moving on to Badd Blood for the first ever HIAC. :mark:


The bump Spike takes after that Eddie/Benoit vs Dudleyz match is insane. I enjoyed that match for what it was.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

I don't approve of this Michaels hate at all ut

Yea flair/lesnar is awesome, the match is exactly the type of match you expect these two to have. My 2002 project had hit a halt because my laptop lived its final day a few days ago . I was looking forward to rewatching hardy/taker. Was currently on summerslam


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Love the start of the Lesnar/Flair match where Brock says to Flair "You are in the wrong time, wrong place with the wrong guy".


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flair talks about that match with Brock in his book. He says his confidence was totally gone at that point and that he had to go up to Brock before the match and apologize and ask if Brock would lead him. Brock said it was a huge confidence boost for him personally to have Flair put the match in his hands, and Flair said working with Brock really helped him get back in the swing of things. It's still amazing to me that at two separate times in his career, Flair totally lost his confidence and had to work to get it back. Jericho had to actually yell at him before their SS match and say "snap the fuck out of it, you're Ric Flair for Christ sakes". And yet, even though Flair says his confidence was shot in 1989-1990 (his best year in ring ever) and 2002, he was still awesome in 2002 from everything I've seen (Taker match at WM, Vince match at RR, Lesnar match, Jericho match, etc)

Well folks, atleast no one can claim I didn't try. I just say down and watched the full WrestleMania Rewind for the Taker/Hunter match at WM 27. It included all the hype videos and interviews hyping up the match. I was actually pumped to watch it, I was really gonna give it a good chance. First 5 or so minutes go by, and I'm thinking I'm about to have to eat crow with Cal, because it seemed to be going really well. Then from the point Taker hits the choke slam in the center of the ring until the finish, it's one of the worst big WM matches I've ever, ever seen. It plays into all the bad "WWE Main Event style" stereotypes with endless finishers and kick outs, and then the never ending chair shots from Hunter. Awful, just awful. How in the hell Cal says this is the MotY for 2011 OVER Punker/Cena is just totally beyond me. Three straight pedigrees with three straight kick outs. That's not wrestling, that's not "story telling". That's just lazy and it's crap. Crap crap crap. And a whole fucking lot of laying around staring at the lights in between. I'd give this a DUD if not for the solid first 5 minutes. As it is, I'm giving it * and that almost seems generous. Fuck this match, fuck it right in it's stupid asshole. Compared to this, the Lesnar/Taker match from WM 30 is a 5-star classic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

It's official - that WM 27 Streak match has gotta be the most love it or hate it match of all time :lol.

At least you're not blasting the 28 one. I rewatched that a few days ago and still gives me dem goosebumps. Sure it has some flaws (i.e. HBK overacting like fuck and being another stereotype WWE big match), but I couldn't really care that they exist, because there is no one that is going to convince me that that match in any way sucks. It reels of many callbacks to the previous matches Taker had w/both HHH and HBK at WM, the crowd is incredibly into it, it lots of badass near-falls (Sweet Chin Music and Pedigree combo = greatest near-fall ever), it's physical as all hell and has HUGE importance into my personal wrestling fandom (aka I'm biased for it for personal reasons :side. Just putting that out .


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I took a break from wrasslin in 2011, so I've never seen the WM 27 streak match. I really liked the End of an Era match though, so how much worse could it be?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Brye said:


> Hey.
> 
> JR's commentary is unbelievable during Hardy/Taker. Sells the shit out of Jeff possibly winning.


CLIMB, SON. CLIMB.

Camera work actually did a neat job too showing Jeff so close to grabbing the belt only for Undertaker to creep on back & knock him off for the final blow. Match is too much :mark: And all built almost on a whim too. 



Crummy97 said:


> I took a break from wrasslin in 2011, so I've never seen the WM 27 streak match. I really liked the End of an Era match though, so how much worse could it be?


The worst thing imaginable. And this is coming from a Undertaker fan who was emotionally destroyed after this year's WM.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Then I guess I'll continue to avoid it like the plague. Anyone ever seen Bradshaw/TAKA vs Kaientai from Over The Edge 98? It has one of the best hot tags I've ever seen and everything TAKA does is pure gold.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That was the only other match worth seeing on the garbage show pardon the perfect main event. So while the rest is seriously troublesome to think how wrestling can be that bad in such a large supply, it still does have some quality on it too. Feels like that happens more than one may believe. GAB '04 anyone? Terrible show, yet two stellar matches.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Well folks, atleast no one can claim I didn't try. I just say down and watched the full WrestleMania Rewind for the Taker/Hunter match at WM 27. It included all the hype videos and interviews hyping up the match. I was actually pumped to watch it, I was really gonna give it a good chance. First 5 or so minutes go by, and I'm thinking I'm about to have to eat crow with Cal, because it seemed to be going really well. Then from the point Taker hits the choke slam in the center of the ring until the finish, it's one of the worst big WM matches I've ever, ever seen. It plays into all the bad "WWE Main Event style" stereotypes with endless finishers and kick outs, and then the never ending chair shots from Hunter. Awful, just awful. How in the hell Cal says this is the MotY for 2011 OVER Punker/Cena is just totally beyond me. Three straight pedigrees with three straight kick outs. That's not wrestling, that's not "story telling". That's just lazy and it's crap. Crap crap crap. And a whole fucking lot of laying around staring at the lights in between. I'd give this a DUD if not for the solid first 5 minutes. As it is, I'm giving it * and that almost seems generous. Fuck this match, fuck it right in it's stupid asshole. Compared to this, the Lesnar/Taker match from WM 30 is a 5-star classic.


Jeez man, it wasn't a bad match.

Actually, can't believe I'm saying that. I used to feel I had one of the lowest ratings for it, but there are people who totally hate the match and I don't see that. As you mentioned, the start was good, then it got really really really wack in the long middle... but then from after HHH blasted Taker with the chair to the end, I thought it got great. It was overkill on the finishers, but it was kinda worth it for arguably the greatest nearfall of all time with Taker kicking out of the tombstone. Even watching it back (especially now that he went down at WM30 with less), it's still unbelievable he kicked out of the tombstone. And then the way they had them going into hells gates, with HHH getting overconfident and dropping his guard, was a thing of beauty. Then that whole sequence was awesome as well, with HHH trying to get out and then trying to use the sledgehammer, but it being too late by the time he got to it. Only thing is HHH probably shouldn't have tapped to play into the "die trying" thing, but even then it's not like he hasn't tapped a ton of times before, so I'm okay with it. 

I actually watched the WM Rewind of it to see all the comments from the guys and then to see the thoughts after the match. While watching the match though, the crowd seemed A LOT more quiet than I remember. I actually compared it to Taker/Punk WM29 to see if I just had the view too low, I tried to match up the volume using the commentators' voices, and the crowd for Taker/Punk was like a million times louder. Only thing that really started getting the crowd in the WM27 match going was the tombstone near-fall, which I did remember, but the rest of the match that crowd was pretty mild, with some weak "Let's go Taker" and even weaker "HHH" chants to go along with it. 


I kinda wanna re-watch Taker/HHH WM28 just to see if the crowd was better.


----------



## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Flair talks about that match with Brock in his book. He says his confidence was totally gone at that point and that he had to go up to Brock before the match and apologize and ask if Brock would lead him. Brock said it was a huge confidence boost for him personally to have Flair put the match in his hands, and Flair said working with Brock really helped him get back in the swing of things. It's still amazing to me that at two separate times in his career, Flair totally lost his confidence and had to work to get it back. Jericho had to actually yell at him before their SS match and say "snap the fuck out of it, you're Ric Flair for Christ sakes". And yet, even though Flair says his confidence was shot in 1989-1990 (his best year in ring ever) and 2002, he was still awesome in 2002 from everything I've seen (Taker match at WM, Vince match at RR, Lesnar match, Jericho match, etc)
> 
> Well folks, atleast no one can claim I didn't try. I just say down and watched the full WrestleMania Rewind for the Taker/Hunter match at WM 27. It included all the hype videos and interviews hyping up the match. I was actually pumped to watch it, I was really gonna give it a good chance. First 5 or so minutes go by, and I'm thinking I'm about to have to eat crow with Cal, because it seemed to be going really well. Then from the point Taker hits the choke slam in the center of the ring until the finish, it's one of the worst big WM matches I've ever, ever seen. It plays into all the bad "WWE Main Event style" stereotypes with endless finishers and kick outs, and then the never ending chair shots from Hunter. Awful, just awful. How in the hell Cal says this is the MotY for 2011 OVER Punker/Cena is just totally beyond me.* Three straight pedigrees with three straight kick outs. That's not wrestling, that's not "story telling*". That's just lazy and it's crap. Crap crap crap. And a whole fucking lot of laying around staring at the lights in between. I'd give this a DUD if not for the solid first 5 minutes. As it is, I'm giving it * and that almost seems generous. Fuck this match, fuck it right in it's stupid asshole. Compared to this, the Lesnar/Taker match from WM 30 is a 5-star classic.


There is a story behind the match even if you don't like what the story. 

They did just throw bombs at each other the entire match but within the context of the Streak it makes sense. To beat the Undertaker at Wrestlemania the idea was that you pretty much had to kill him, and Triple H constantly went for the knockout bunch. 

And the end tells a pretty clear story I think as Triple H straight up beats the Undertaker but looses the match anyway.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ah I use to LOVE the last two hhh/taker matches so much. Funny you wrote that because I saw it on the mania rewind thing and was going to give it a watch myself . I use to think that storytelling was awesome until the last 2 watches when it was anything but. The WM 17 match isn't all that from what I remember as well


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Plz. Lets go back to Bradshaw beating up little Japanese dudes and one of them being Dick Togo.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Never got the hype for HHH vs Taker from WM27. That goes for the night it happened too. Everyone else was jumping out of their seat over the tombstone fall yet I never bought into any of it.

Then I rewatched it a year or two later and it was the same shit I remembered it being: a sorry excuse for "storytelling" where they just hit each other with finishers over and over while laying around every other minute. It's like a far inferior version of WM26.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Dick Togo ?


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

NAITCH said:


> Dick Togo ?


Dick Togo. Member of the original Kaientai. Also member of the "hilarious names if you're as immature as I am" club.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> Jeez man, it wasn't a bad match.
> 
> Actually, can't believe I'm saying that. I used to feel I had one of the lowest ratings for it, but there are people who totally hate the match and I don't see that. As you mentioned, the start was good, then it got really really really wack in the long middle... but then from after HHH blasted Taker with the chair to the end, I thought it got great. It was overkill on the finishers, but it was kinda worth it for arguably the greatest nearfall of all time with Taker kicking out of the tombstone. Even watching it back (especially now that he went down at WM30 with less), it's still unbelievable he kicked out of the tombstone. And then the way they had them going into hells gates, with HHH getting overconfident and dropping his guard, was a thing of beauty. Then that whole sequence was awesome as well, with HHH trying to get out and then trying to use the sledgehammer, but it being too late by the time he got to it. Only thing is HHH probably shouldn't have tapped to play into the "die trying" thing, but even then it's not like he hasn't tapped a ton of times before, so I'm okay with it.
> 
> ...


Outside of the first 5 minutes, the only parts I enjoyed were Taker doing his stagger sell where he looks punch drunk but keeps his hands up and is like "come on mother fucker", and when Taker kicks out of the tombstone and Hunter looks like he's seen a ghost. Otherwise, I hated every other minute of it.



TaylorFitz said:


> There is a story behind the match even if you don't like what the story.
> 
> They did just throw bombs at each other the entire match but within the context of the Streak it makes sense. To beat the Undertaker at Wrestlemania the idea was that you pretty much had to kill him, and Triple H constantly went for the knockout bunch.
> 
> And the end tells a pretty clear story I think as Triple H straight up beats the Undertaker but looses the match anyway.


I like the story, I don't like how they went about executing it. There is a better way to execute that story than doing "Finisher > Kick out > lay on your back selling> Finisher > Kick out > lay on your back selling >Finisher > Kick out > lay on your back selling" etc etc ad nauseum. You still have a responsibility to, you know, make the match enjoyable when you go about telling you're story. The story of the guy winning taking the beating of his life but some how escaping with a win has been done many, many times and it's been done in far more compelling and exciting ways. For instance, Cena/Lesnar tells almost the exact same story as Hunter/Taker WM 27, except instead of being lazy and relying on finishers, Brock just physically mauled and abused Cena. That's how I feel Hunter should have gone about it. Throw Taker around, beat him up, he had the right idea for the first 5 minutes with the Brawl around the ring but then they just went into that never ending finisher sequence.

Another thing that bugged the hell out of me was, after Hunter levels Taker with that headshot with the chair, he doesn't even try to pin him right away. Isn't the point of all those finishers to show Hunter was just gonna throw bombs and do whatever it takes to win? Why after you level Taker with the best shot you've got, would you just collapse in the corner and allow Taker to regain his bearings? Then Hunter just kept yelling "stay down! Stay down!". Okay Hunter, say he stays down and just lays there....then what? You can't win the match standing up looking like a doofus while another guy just lays on the ground.

Okay I'm done bitching about that match. Sorry I had to vent.



NAITCH said:


> Ah I use to LOVE the last two hhh/taker matches so much. Funny you wrote that because I saw it on the mania rewind thing and was going to give it a watch myself . I use to think that storytelling was awesome until the last 2 watches when it was anything but. The WM 17 match isn't all that from what I remember as well


I outright detest WM 27, WM 28 is just "meh", but I think WM 17 is flat out great. I love that match, even with the ludicrous ref bump. WM 17 is far an away their best match IMO.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I wrote a really really long review for the Taker/HHH Mania 27 match a year or two ago after my 3rd watch.. Should I repost it?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Dick Togo ?




Essential.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You must repost your JD 08 review for Jericho/Michaels. Please.

Hated the WM 27 match when it happened. Then rewatched it the end of that year and liked it. Then watched it again and didn't like it. Watched it recently and liked it. I've decided never to watch it ever again. Same with the WM 28 match. Why soil good sentiment?

But WM 29. You could ask everyone that night which match they wanted to see the most, and I'm confident that it was GOAT vs. GOAT. Crowd was so hot for that match. GOAT should have pulled triple duty that night and fought HHH and Cena. Singlehandedly turn that show into the greatest PPV ever.

Dick Togo. Oh man, Kaientai were hilarious. Remember when JBL tried to teach TAKA how to drive and smoke? The entire Michinoku Pro crew rules. And Funaki is one of the most underrated wrestlers out there. Indeed. So is my boy Nunzio.

For the uninitiated:

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2010/09/complete-and-accurate-dick-togo.html

DICK TOGO


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

The original Kaientai was A++. They gave The fucking Oddities a good match. THE ODDITIES.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll just do both then. First one was originally written in December of 2012. 2nd in April of 2013.

Taker vs. HHH at Mania 27


Spoiler: Long review



*No Holds Barred*
The Undertaker vs. Triple H
_Wrestlemania 27_


It's been well over a year and half since this match happened. Watching this live on ppv, I thought it was absolutely incredible. On first watch I seriously contemplated giving it the full 5 stars. I thought it was THAT good. Now, on this day, I think it's time to finally give it a proper rewatch and see how it holds up. Oh how feelings change...

First let's start with the good stuff. That being the beginning of the match. Instantly from the bell Trips looks on top of his game. He knows Taker normally charges straight for his opponent, so he decided to jump the gun and charges him first. Lands some nice looking body shots while managing to duck all of Taker's blows. Also, he counters old school and tosses him off the top rope. Nice little touches there, the Game knows his opponent well. Everything so far seemes to be done with much more force than a normal match. This one's sure as hell gonna be physical. Then we get on to some of the more memorable moments of the match; the spots. The backdrop off the announce table makes me cringe every time. Hunter could've easily broken a hip or severely damaged his back. The spinebuster through the announce table was something different and unexpected. Can't complain there. Essentially everything up to this exact point has been flat out awesome. They're destined to have an amazing match. BUT, I speak too soon.

Now the middle of the match. Man, I didn't realize how much this dragged. It started with a chokeslam for a 2 count. Ok, nothing wrong there. Well then we get a pedigree for a 2 count. No big deal, you knew that was gonna happen. Problem was at this point they're basically laying on the mat for at least 1-2 minutes after every big move. Now I know they've already taken a lot of punishment, but this isn't even selling anymore. It's just really really slow. Big move, near fall, lay down. I never realized all these complaints were actually true until now. What made it even worse was that FUCKING REF. I can't stand the way Scott Armstrong counts. It's so slow and deliberate, seemingly nothing is believable when it comes to nearfalls. The middle part of this match flat out sucked, I'll be honest. There were times when I just wanted to fast forward through it and not a single one of the pinfalls were believable finishes. But now that that's over, we get to the true aspect of why I loved this match so much at one time.

So we'll fast forward to Hunter's 3rd (and final) pedigree. He gets a 2 count of course (didn't believe this nearfall either) and seems to be thinking "what the hell do I have to do?" Then shit gets real. He grabs the chair and beats the living fuck out of Undertaker's back. Welts all across his side. Still Taker won't stay down. Taker stands up, gets WALLOPED over the head with the chair. Yeah, that was incredibly shocking considering that's been outlawed by the WWE. But see, these guys are the last outlaws. They don't give a fuck. So Taker's out in the middle of the ring. This is what puzzles me. Why wouldn't Triple H go for the cover? Instead he huddles in a corner, seemingly thinking to himself, "man, I'm gonna get fined for that shot..." No, but really. It's ok though because that would lead to one of the most amazing moments in all of Wrestlemania's history.

Taker is absolutely out of gas. He doesn't have the grip to go for the chokeslam, so Hunter's done fuckin around. It's TOMBSTONE time! Trips gives the signal, cleanly picks him up, and NAILS him with an absolutely perfect looking tombstone piledriver. This one's over folks. One, two, thr.. NO! The fucking Undertaker just kicked out. I kid you not, this was the ONLY time in 18 years I had EVER thought the streak was gonna be over. I still marked out on this watch, it still gave me goosebumps. Such an awesome moment. Problem was, as soon as he kicked out I knew there was not a chance in hell Triple H was walking out with a victory tonight. Time to resort to old measures.

Sledgehammer time? Not today, Paul. The Undertaker (sloppily) applies his Hell's Gate submission and chokes the life out of Hunter. The execution itself wasn't all that great but I'll be damned if they didn't do everything right past that moment. Hunter trying with absolutely everything he had to get out was fantastic. You could see the spot where he was going to attempt to pick Taker's entire body up and slam him but he just didn't have the strength. The crowd is eating this up of course, and when Triple H grabs the sledgehammer, you can hear thousands of people yell OH! over all the ruckus. As he slowly drops the hammer and his grip fades along with any ounces of strength he had left, you know the end is near.

Triple H taps at Wrestlemania... again. The last several minutes of this match are an absolutely amazing spectacle, there's no denying that. The symbolism behind the closing minutes is remarkable. Remember, Triple said he would end the streak or die trying, but in the end was Undertaker the real winner? Triple H walked out on his own power. Taker could not. As difficult as this match is to rate, I'm gonna do it. The beginning was great and the end was incredible, but the middle portion really drags it down imo. Still, what an amazing spectacle. Although nowhere near my MOTY list for 2011 anymore, it's a great watch in spots.

**** 3/4*



Michaels vs. Jericho at Judgment Day '08


Spoiler: Not as long review but much better match



*WWE Judgment Day 2008*
Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho

Ya know, I was just gonna do a full review of the Superstar Collection: Shawn Michaels dvd, but after watching this, it needs a review on its own. This is an absolutely TREMENDOUS wrestling match on so many basic, yet intricate levels. Immediately at the opening bell Jericho tried to attack Shawn's so called injured knee, but the Showstopper blocks every attempt and you can tell Jericho is way off his normal mindset cause Shawn starts playin mind games with him. It's really like a role reversal here.

Mat wrestling and counters to start and it's oh so good. How often do you see two bridges off the mat in the gutwrench position in the same match, let alone on back to back occasions? Almost never I'd say. Tremendous showing of strength and athleticism from both guys. The structure of the match kicks in when Jericho starts working on the ribs of Michaels. Lots of stiff knees and kicks to the midsection, which Shawn sells amazingly throughout the match at every given moment.

Sweet Chin Music can strike at any moment, and that's exactly what happens. Out of NOWHERE on the apron and lays Jericho out cold on the floor. Michaels has to literally drag his limp body back into the middle of the ring for a long 2 count. Great moment there. He eventually gets setup for SCM again and the crowd is counting the number of times the boot hits the mat, but instead of Jericho standing up and turning around into it, he goes back to a knee... TWICE. Mind games by Jericho! He suckers everyone in the audience and even Shawn himself is confused, so Jericho swings around and hits the codebreaker. 1-2-NO! Shawn with the shoulder up, amazing.

Neither man has won with their signature moves, so what do we get in the final minutes? A CRIPPLER CROSSFACE. Michaels locks it in and seriously puts some torque into it, before Jericho makes it to the ropes and goes back to the ribs (constant story that never averts the attention). But now you see, here's where I'm gonna stop. I quite honestly don't wanna spoil the finish for anyone who hasn't yet seen the match. Please, do yourself a favor and watch it asap. Jim Ross is brilliant on commentary, the match itself is a damn near masterpiece, & the postmatch handshake makes the whole package come together even more. At the end of the day, this MAY be my 2008 Match of the Year. Incredible.


***** 1/2*



Thank god for the search function on this forum.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I really should watch that Michaels vs Jericho match to have an opinion on it. You can tell I gave little to no shits about WWE around this time, which is why I haven't seen the entire PPV by now.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Pretty sure you said the same thing the first time I posted the review.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

It's gonna repeat itself a few more times unless someone links me to it.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

About to watch HBK v. British Bulldog _King of the Ring 1996_, a match I remember loving years ago. Any thoughts on this particular match?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Awesome , it's Michaels from 96 so not much needs to be said :hbk


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, it's a wonderful match. Owen is hilarious on commentary too. **** on last watch. Debated on **** 1/4 but I don't recall liking the finish.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

It's a good match. A bit long, but very smooth. Yeah, that's what it was. Smooth. Shawn in 96. Oh man.

Can anyone tell me why the DX vs. McMahons/Big Show HIAC match is good? I tried to watch it, but I got bored and decided to wash my feet.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

funnyfaces1 said:


> It's a good match. A bit long, but very smooth. Yeah, that's what it was. Smooth. Shawn in 96. Oh man.
> 
> Can anyone tell me why the DX vs. McMahons/Big Show HIAC match is good? I tried to watch it, but I got bored and decided to wash my feet.


It's one of those things where if you smoke enough weed, you find amusement in someone's head getting shoved up a giant's ass.

Otherwise nah, I couldn't tell ya. Sorry.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

Just checked out the bits of Raw I deemed worth watching. No surprise whatsoever that Ambrose/Del Rio was good. Dean is the company's MVP right now. As a character and a worker he's just delivering in spades. And DAT STEPHANIE MCMAHON with DEM PEDIGREES~! :mark: She's seriously so GOAT right now. $9.99 promo and Cena/Lesnar hype video were quality too. Call me an optimist but I still think there's plenty to look forward to at SummerSlam even though the Ambrose/Rollins stip is totally disappointing.


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

Other than a couple miscommunications in the beginning, Davey's WTF dive, and a not so great finish,bthe match is very good. I really loved the mock-plancha Frankensteiner by Shawn and that sit-out powerbomb by Bulldog. Owen being a racist prick on commentary was fucking awesome. ******

Is the whole Best of Seven worth watching in the Benoit v. Booker series? Or just a couple, because I remember Armageddon being really good.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Watched Invasion, so I might as well give my opinions:

Edge & Christian vs Mike Awesome & Lance Storm - ***3/4
-This match fucking rules. And hoooooly shit does the crowd love Edge.

Earl Hebner vs Nick Patrick - 1/4*
-Yeah, no. Hot crowd and some comedy saves it from being a dud.

APA vs The Young Lions - DUD
-Why the fuck did they give this match a video package if it was just going to be a squash? Only good part was the Clothesline from Hell.

X-Pac vs Billy Kidman - ***
-The crowd turned Kidman face out of their hatred of X-Pac, which I found hilarious. At least they embraced it and X-Pax played the heel all match. Action was good, crowd was great, SSP was awesome. 

William Regal vs Raven - *
-I get my hopes up about this match every time I watch this show, and every time it disappoints. Incredibly boring.

Gunn-Show & Albert vs Stasiak, Morrus, Kanyon - 1/2*
-Winning team gets squashed. Just a cheap excuse to let The Alliance even the score while still getting their asses handed to them. Boo.

Tajiri vs Tazz - **1/2
-Amazingly stiff. A few dead spots, and not quite long enough, but still pretty awesome for what it was.

Jeff Hardy vs Rob Van Dam - ****
-One of the best Hardcore Title matches ever. That's really all I need to say about this match.

Trish Stratus & Lita vs Torrie Wilson & Stacy Keibler - DUD
-At least they're hot. :shrug

Inaugural Brawl - ***3/4
-Frenzied action, awesome spots, and DAT FINISH! 

Overall - Good show to watch in pieces. In total, it's still worth watching. The shitty parts are perfectly spread out throughout the show, and there's a couple cool segments with Vince and Heyman/Shane/Steph talking to their wrestlers. Unfortunately, Cole is on commentary with JR.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

That "Blood, Urine and Vomit" line sounds so off-putting, did Brock really say that?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh yeah he did.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

I'm thinking about that line and I will have mad respect for Cena if he does all three. I mean we already know Brock is gonna bust him open hardway (please no stopping the match this time) so all Cena has to do is vomit which should be easy for the movie star and then piss himself. Would be hilarious.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Cena 3:16, says you just pissed your pants!


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

if I see piss running down Cena's leg, I will join Cenation now and forever haha.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm not so sure we'll be seeing blood at SS TBH.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

I kind of love the idea of Cena pissing and throwing up for 15 minutes and then the slightest trickle of blood prompts eight WWE officials to run to the ring with towels.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I can't imagine Lesnar will be any safer with Cena than he was at Extreme Rules. I'm hoping they both get cut open but John won't potato Bork too bad.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

The Fab Four said:


> I'm not so sure we'll be seeing blood at SS TBH.


I personally think it's a lock and almost has to happen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, given how they're purposefuly ruining their undercard (FUCKING LUMBERJACK MATCH?!) for the sake of pumping up Cena/Bork, they BETTER have it as nasty and physical as possible. Blood should be there indeed. Don't know about urine and vomit though .

I say time restart one of the classic discussions of this thread - WM 17 or 19?


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Is there anything better than the Brock Lesnar sit down interviews? Seriously now. I think it's 10 times more effective having him do those rather than doing the standard middle of the ring promo. The one he had when he first came back to face Cena is one of my favorite things ever: "That's a scared man right there" "I'm not a superstar. I'm an ass kicker". So many great lines.


----------



## Flux (Sep 4, 2010)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Is there anything better than the Brock Lesnar


nope


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The first sit down interview was ruined because Big Show did the same interview with the same content a month later. The one against GOAT was glorious. But Brock is a hit or miss wrestler, so I'm not looking forward to the match that much. I think Swagger/Rusev or Miz/Ziggler is the match I care about most now that they ruined Rollins/Ambrose. Yeah it's probably Miz/Ziggler. Ziggler even has a really good sit-down interview with Michael Cole worth going out of your way to see.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Flux said:


> nope


:lmao

Just so you all know, Ricky Morton is on the Steve Austin Show today:

http://www.podcastone.com/Steve-Austin-Show-Clean

Also, Cody and Dustin Rhodes were on Jericho's show last Friday. Excellent listen, especially Dustin telling the story of his match with Piper at WM 12 and how the Goldust character came to be:

http://www.podcastone.com/program?action=viewProgram&programID=593


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock a hit or miss wrestler? Someone said THAT on this thread? WHAT HAVE WE BECAME? :heyman5


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Finally watched Raw. Man that Brock/Cena video was good, Brock esp was great, that end line of "Blood, Urine and Vomit". Just before Brock said Urine, he did pause for a split second, probably was going to say piss lol.

Loved the "I don't give a fuck" line. If WWE fuck this up, then fuck this excuse for a company. I just hope the match is good and Brock wins, then we'll have NOC to worry about i guess.

I'm also living the Swagger/Rusev feud too, so yeah I'm looking forward to Summerslam.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Vs. Cena and Punk were hits. Vs. Lesnar and Taker were not. Brock's current style is so conducive to who he is with. I'm not sure if lightning will strike twice. Our expectations are too high, and much of why we loved Cena/Lesnar was because of the mystique of Brock coming back. I'm worried about needless overbooking too on the side of the WWE.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Brock Lesnar Vs. Lesnar wasn't a hit? If anything, that would be the greatest match of all time :lmao :brock

In all seriousness, the only match I would say were far from hits were the WM matches w/HHH (which I still found decent) and Taker (which was a colossal dissapointment, even though fault of that goes on the unfortune circumstances of Taker's concussion). Show match was a huge dissapointment too, but I liked it for a 3 minute squash. Everything else he's done so far has been really good. He's an asskicking barbarian who promised to leave Cena in a pool of blood, urine and vomit for Christ's sake! I am kinda worried that the match won't meet the hype either myself, especially after the Taker match, but I have a good feeling that the WWE will indeed try to make this as good and brutal as possible.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Vs Lesnar? Brock wrestled himself?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

According to ff, yeah he did, and it WASN'T a hit (Lesnar/Lesnar would be the GOAT if it ever happened) :lol

_I know it was a typo, just roll along with joke PLZ..._ :side:


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I was trying to make the same joke you did but you posted yours first :shrug. Just imagine how stuff Lesnar vs Lesnar would be.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn, my mind is out of it :lol. I don't know what I'm saying. I just know that Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose are sex.

Guys go watch RVD vs. Test in 2006. MOTYC.

And No Mercy 2006 rules.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Finally got around to watching this:

*Belfast Brawl*
Kane vs. Finlay (_Smackdown 9/14/2007_)

This was awesome. Finlay attacking Kane on his way to the ring was the perfect start. I was a little confused as to why Finlay would attack the left arm considering that's not Kane's dominant one, but it doesn't matter cause the work was good and it worked for the story. Totally loved how organic everything felt. They weren't just grabbing weapons for the hell of it, it felt like a real brawl. Finish was a bit surprising on my end, but hey, this was good shit. **** 3/4*

That and the Cage match with RVD were the two best matches I've seen from the Kane set thus far. I've been through two and a half discs.

Also watched Kurt Angle's Smackdown farewell match against Mysterio from June 2, 2006. Really good stuff where Angle uses his size and strength to his advantage, but the finish is really deflating. Guess they didn't want Mysterio losing clean when he was the World Champ. Angle looked like he could've wrestled for another 40 minutes though.  *** 1/2 for that.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Damn, my mind is out of it :lol. I don't know what I'm saying. I just know that Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose are sex.
> 
> Guys go watch RVD vs. Test in 2006. MOTYC.
> 
> *And No Mercy 2006 rules.*


This is the quote that this thread should live for.

As a matter of fact, when this thread dies, the next one should be called:
*Official Match/DVD/Show Discussion Thread - And No Mercy 2006 Rules*

But because the mods think some sexual innuendo is better, they'll likely think about something like *Flash Bang* or something. :side:


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Fantastic idea on Observer Radio:

Ambrose vs. Rollins III when they end their feud inside HIAC should also be an I Quit match to channel Tully vs. Magnum.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Finally got around to watching this:
> 
> *Belfast Brawl*
> Kane vs. Finlay (_Smackdown 9/14/2007_)
> ...



For fucks sake bro FINALLY, it's only been what, 6 months that I've been telling you about it?  I'd say my favorite matches from Kane on that set are:

Vs Foley SVS 1997 (super underrated bout, I loved it)
Vs Hunter Chain Match JD 01
Vs Finlay Belfast Brawl SD 07'
w/ Taker vs Finlay/King Booker SD 07'

I also remember the Umaga Raw match being tons of fun, with some absolutely ridiculous chair shots to the head that Umaga no sells.


Also, Lesnar is far less "hit or miss" than just about anyone on the roster. Who else has had 1 5-star match and one near 5-star match out of their last 6 PPV bouts? No one, that's who. And really, the 3 matches with Hunter were all pretty well received by casuals, it's just in here we kind of realize how bad the chemistry was for them. Nothing Brock could have done about that, I mean his performance in the cage match was phenomenal I just hate that match cause I never want to see Brock shrieking in pain while he gets dominated by Hunter. The only match that is pretty much universally disliked (except for a few people) that he has had was the Taker match, and that was neither Brock's or Takers fault for falling flat. Only so much you can do when one of the participants gets knocked unconscious 5 minutes in and has to be bottle fed for the rest of the match. And I don't count the Big Show debacle, as that wasn't even a match.

So yea, I think you are fighting an uphill battle trying to convince anyone that Brock has been anything but stellar since he came back. Even Daniel Bryan doesn't have the success rate in main event PPV matches that Brock has had since his return at ER 2012. So far, 1 in every 3 matches since Brock has come back has been a certified all time great match.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I am definitely more impressed by Daniel Bryan's big match track record in the last couple years than Brock. But that really isn't a slight on Brock because nobody is better than Daniel. But it goes back to my earlier point: his style depends on others more than most workers. I'd say that two great matches in six tries qualifies as hit or miss. Brock himself has been great. But that isn't the argument.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I am definitely more impressed by Daniel Bryan's big match track record in the last couple years than Brock. But that really isn't a slight on Brock because nobody is better than Daniel. But it goes back to my earlier point: his style depends on others more than most workers. I'd say that two great matches in six tries qualifies as hit or miss. Brock himself has been great. But that isn't the argument.



Daniel Bryan:

SS 2013: Major Hit
NoC: Miss
Battleground: Miss
Hell in a Cell: Miss
SVS: eh, neither
TLC: eh, neither
Royal Rumble: Hit

That's 2 hits, 3 misses, and 2 neither in 7 tries(those matches at TLC and SVS weren't bad, they were good, but they weren't great either)

Brock Lesnar:

ER 2012: Major Hit
SS 12: eh, neither
WM 29: miss
ER 13: eh, neither
SS 13: Major, major Hit
EC 14: not a match
WM 30: miss

You tell me dude. Bryan was great in all his matches whether they hit or missed, as was Brock. Daniel Bryan is the best wrestler in the world, and even he can't knock it out of the park every single time. Bryan had a very similar situation happen where he wrestled Orton 3 straight times on PPV without a single great match, just like Brock wrestling Hunter 3 straight times without a single great match. It's not that either guys performance was lacking, it's just that it always takes two to tango. You also have to remember, everyone else is wrestling every single week multiple times, they get to stay in a groove. Brock is coming in ice cold having not wrestled in months and he STILL brings it each and every time. He doesn't get ring rust, it's really pretty amazing. Ask Batista how hard it is to come in off an extended lay off and just immediately rip it up. Everyone makes a HUGE deal out of Michaels not wrestling for 4 years then coming back without missing a step at Summerslam 2002...well what about fucking Brock? He comes back after an 8 year lay off, twice as long, and proceeds to deliver one of the single greatest heel performances ever. That's far more impressive IMO.

I'm not letting you get away with shitting on Brock. He's one of the best ever, and one of my favorite guys ever. I simply won't stand for it


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

The Brock/HHH series, if there is anyone to blame, and there is, it's fully on HHH imo. That cage match debacle ill never get over, plus some if the build up too.

Trips calling Brock a "bitch". Come on.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

What about the Chamber, HHH, Randy/Dave and Kane matches for The Burglar Stopper himself, Chris? 8*D


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

ATF said:


> What about the Chamber, HHH, Randy/Dave and Kane matches for The Burglar Stopper himself, Chris? 8*D


I was just going for a sample size that was similar. 7 matches for Bryan, 7 for Brock (I disqualified the Big Show match). I was showing that in a sample as small as 6-7 PPV matches, even the best wrestler in the world Daniel Bryan is "hit or miss" by Funnyfaces standards. For the record, I think a guy like Randy Orton or John Cena is hit or miss, because their effort and performance varies so wildly from match to match. For guys like Brock, Bryan, Ambrose, Rollins, Cesaro, etc I would never call them hit or miss, because even if the match isn't good, their effort and performance 9 times out of 10 will be great.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cena is 100% hit and miss, and imo it's all down to him, whether he gives a shit in the match or not to put the effort it, or just revert to type (i.e same shit).


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Cena labeled as hit or miss is so egregious though. b/c there is a big difference from some random filler RAW main event & a match that actually matters. And when he's pulling through 9/10 for the bigger matches _(not marred by gimmicks, mind you)_ he's nothing but a hit.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The Fab Four said:


> Cena is 100% hit and miss, and imo it's all down to him, whether he gives a shit in the match or not to put the effort it, or just revert to type (i.e same shit).


Totally. A motivated Cena + a guy who can cut it in the ring = almost always a great match. However, if Cena is on auto pilot, you really can't do shit about it the match is just gonna have to be shit.

For anyone interested in seeing the single greatest punch thrown in wrestling history (atleast from what I've seen) go watch the Piper/Goldust Backlot Brawl at WM 12. You should want to watch it anyway, because it's absolutely awesome. But if you want to see this punch, watch the opening segment when they are brawling in the back alley, then watch the punch Piper hits Dustin with right before Dustin low blows Piper. It's just a 100% real, honest to goodness, punch right in the fucking face. You can hear that signature "thud" of fist meeting skull. It's just gruesome. Dustin said in his interview with Jericho that it totally knocked him out and that Piper broke his hand. 

Piper throws another real doozy right before the GOAT punch when Dustin is lying on the hood of hi car. Roddy rears back and hits him with another 100% real shot on the forehead. 

I'm sure I'm exaggerating, but damn I've never seen a more perfect and painful punch in a wrestling match.

If you want to watch it on the Network, click on WM 12 and fast foreword to 24:20 and behold this amazing punch.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Good point but I don't think guys like Ambrose, Rollins and Bryan stop giving a shit when put in random Raw filler Main Event matches anyway :shrug


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't remember much from No Mercy 2006, is it really that good?


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Assuming it's a 'standard ' match, will Cena attempt the dreaded five knuckle Shuffle at SS I wonder.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Why b/c they don't have a formula where it is easy to tell? or b/c they're the guys who are always used as hard as Cena? Think about other things than just "oh he's in the ring for x amount of time this night, you better give me something great". Dude has a lot of his plate being the face of the company. If he's gonna take it a bit easy at a few house shows & on a RAW in yet another bland match vs Orton or some kind of tag, then yeah, going through the general wave of motions is suitable. Mick Foley has said it numerous times that he never tried his hardest unless the time mattered. That's what you just have to do.

But of course, it isn't like Danielson or The Shield guys were ever given filler matches anyways. Most of the time, they were always given something that should matter on a weekly basis.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Crummy97 said:


> I don't remember much from No Mercy 2006, is it really that good?


Oh yeah, love that show.

Hardy/Helms - *** 1/2
Tag Title Match - *** 3/4
Mysterio vs. Chavo Falls Count Anywhere - ** 3/4 (ended too abruptly & could've been much more but still fun)
Taker/Kennedy - **** (I'm in the minority in this though. Only CAL goes that high)
Benoit/Regal - **** (so wish this would've gone longer)

The main event is good in the last several minutes but almost nothing interesting happens for the bulk of the match.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I'm through Helms vs Hardy, and if the opener is any indication, this show's gonna be awesome.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I admit, Cena usually brings his game in the big matches, even if I don't agree with the result or booking in some circumstances. I just hope it goes how it should at Summerslam. Night Of Champions ill worry about later.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Why b/c they don't have a formula where it is easy to tell? or b/c they're the guys who are always used as hard as Cena? Think about other things than just "oh he's in the ring for x amount of time this night, you better give me something great". Dude has a lot of his plate being the face of the company. If he's gonna take it a bit easy at a few house shows & on a RAW in yet another bland match vs Orton or some kind of tag, then yeah, going through the general wave of motions is suitable. Mick Foley has said it numerous times that he never tried his hardest unless the time mattered. That's what you just have to do.
> 
> But of course, it isn't like Danielson or The Shield guys were ever given filler matches anyways. Most of the time, they were always given something that should matter on a weekly basis.



That's a fair way of thinking. There has never been a wrestler who was on top in WWE for as long as Cena has been in the modern era (Bruno and Backlund don't count, it was a totally different game back then). The amount of shit Cena has to do week in and week out would have most of us tapping out within a few months, and he's been doing it for damn near a decade now. It's forgivable that he goes on autopilot now and then on Raw or Smackdown, especially when it's a nothing match. You can say, when it comes to guys getting their big shot at him, he is almost ALWAYS there for him. Punk, Bryan, Cesaro, Lesnar, even Damien Sandow in the past 3 years have all had the biggest matches of their career to that point with John Cena, and he was locked in for each and every one of them. So he deserves credit for that. BUT, it's also fair to point out that you aren't always going to get John Cena at his best, like I said it's understandable why, but still he is Hit or Miss. That's how we end up with crap like the Cage and Last Man Standing matches with Wyatt.

Randy Orton is in much the same boat as Cena, in that he's been around so long working a ridiculous schedule that it's understandable when he coasts on Raw or Smackdown. The reason I have a bigger problem with Randy is, he isn't always there for guys in their big matches with him like Cena is. But that's a dead horse that's already been beaten in this thread time and time again.


While perusing the internet for some Dustin Rhodes maches I haven't yet seen, I stumbled across this sweet little gem from Superstars in 2010- Dustin vs Jericho. It's roughly 1000 times better than the match Jericho would have with Edge at WM 26 just a few short weeks later. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdyDlzTiOE4


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Why b/c they don't have a formula where it is easy to tell? or b/c they're the guys who are always used as hard as Cena? Think about other things than just "oh he's in the ring for x amount of time this night, you better give me something great". Dude has a lot of his plate being the face of the company. If he's gonna take it a bit easy at a few house shows & on a RAW in yet another bland match vs Orton or some kind of tag, then yeah, going through the general wave of motions is suitable. Mick Foley has said it numerous times that he never tried his hardest unless the time mattered. That's what you just have to do.
> 
> But of course, it isn't like Danielson or The Shield guys were ever given filler matches anyways. Most of the time, they were always given something that should matter on a weekly basis.


Well I guess you're right on that matter, but even when not counting circumstances where he didn't need to give a shit anyway, there are plenty of matches that he simply just didn't do good. Wheater because his opponent sucked in the match though he tried, or because he himself sucked at trying, I can name you a bunch of big match circumstances - non-gimmick match, even - where he just didn't really do good (or at least good enough) for me. Just recently, the Orton RR match is a perfect example. Or the Rock WM 29 match (then again, we talkin' about someone who CM Punk, AT HIS BEST, COULDN'T get a good match from in Rock, so what the hell was I expecting). Ok, that's only two examples, but still you get what I mean. Cena is indeed good, more often than not. But c'mon, you don't need to run much distance to know that, out of the main roster, he can perfectly be one of the most hit or miss guys out there. The way I see it at least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pardon Rumble vs Orton, all other "misses" I can recently think of w/Cena were all marred by crummy WWE style gimmicks. Something most aren't safe from. I just can't call a guy who has grown into a complete player over the years for the role he has as a hit or miss kind of guy. He isn't Batista. Who is pretty bad for his overall career, but had his hits out there too. To me, that's more along the line of hit & miss. Not a guy who is normally consistent, but isn't some deity that can shy away from bad matches. Everyone has a few bad matches in their career. Comes w/the territory.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Good point but I don't think guys like Ambrose, Rollins and Bryan stop giving a shit when put in random Raw filler Main Event matches anyway :shrug


Put them in Cena's shoes as the top guy for 10 + years and over millions of ppv main events/ raw main events and I doubt they wont tbf


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Del Rio got released. By no means was I a big fan of his, but he had some matches I really enjoyed.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I'm gonna miss him. When he wasn't vs Dolph Ziggler every week, I often was excited anytime he was put in the ring to work.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Del Rio was used so poorly over the years, he could have been so much better if he was put in the mid card for several years and allowed to rise up the card organically. Instead he gets inserted into the Cena/Punk feud for no reason, gets given way too much too soon, and is left with the legacy of an over pushed, boring wrestler when that really could be further from the truth. ADR year in and year out has been one of the top flight workers in the company, I almost always enjoyed his work. Atleast we got that classic match vs Christian at Summerslam and the fabulous double turn with Ziggler at PB. I for one will certainly miss having him around. Hell his matches with Reigns and Ambrose this past week were exceptional. Ugh. 

I hope he atleast punched out someone like Kevin Dunn or Miz, he will be a legend forever for me if he did.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

word is he slapped Kevin Dunn three times after RAW.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Gonna miss those classic's with Ziggler, never seen a series of matches be so different from former one


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

If he actually beat up Dunn, good for him. I can only hope he put that idiot in the Cross Armbreaker.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

I won't really miss him too much, because the man was a charisma vacuum, but I really hope he did indeed slap Dunn around.


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Anyone remember that LMS match he had against Big Show? :banderas


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

VIVA DEL RIOOOO!!!!~


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Alright, I got a good laugh out of whoever made that last edit on ADR's wiki.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well this is kinda weird. Just got back from work to get news about two different matters.

Pretty crazy to see such a high profile release like Del Rio just now. Gonna miss the dude, especially for those awesome Ziggler matches. Wonder how the folks in the back feel about their huge investment tanking.

The other big news relates to the Ricky Morton interview on Austin's most recent podcast show. Ricky was talking about how people would always call him the best babyface they've ever seen. Ricky however would always deny it in favor of a guy named Ken Lucas. Lucas was the man that taught Morton how to sell and work in a tag setting, and apparently he was one of the big stars of the Florida area. I searched up Ken Lucas today and lo and behold, I find news that Ken Lucas JUST passed away yesterday, with the news of his death coming out only a couple hours ago. Crazy coincidence. RIP.




The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Daniel Bryan:
> 
> SS 2013: Major Hit
> NoC: Miss
> ...


I guess that's where the difference might lie. I would classify ER 13 to be a major miss first off. I also thought that Bryan's series with Orton was markedly better than Lesnar's with HHH. In fact, I thought the NoC match in particular was very good (***3/4). And I consider the tag match with Punk against the Wyatts to be a hit as well (****). On top of that, TLC wasn't really a big match situation at all. And of course as ATF mentioned, Elimination Chamber to Extreme Rules was all hits. On top of that, Bryan has been in other big match situations such as ER 12, OTL 12, MITB 12, and TLC 12, and he was a very big hit in those situations. Heck, I actually thought Bryan vs. Sheamus was the match of the night at ER 12.

I'm sorry if you thought my statements were targeted towards Brock's ability. My argument isn't whether or not Brock is talented or not, because I will never deny that a man of his talent level is elite. My argument is that his current style depends on his opponent more than nearly any other good talent. And frankly, Cena recently has not been cutting it. Granted, he wasn't cutting it back in 2012, but the shock of seeing Lesnar in the ring with Cena is gone and I doubt that we will get to see the same level of brutality and surprise that made ER 12 the classic that it is. We certainly didn't see that brutality in any other Lesnar match since, and with all due respect to Cena, he would have never been able to wrestle a match in the style of Punk at SS 13. It's just not Cena's style.




Hayley Seydoux said:


> Pardon Rumble vs Orton, all other "misses" I can recently think of w/Cena were all marred by crummy WWE style gimmicks. Something most aren't safe from. I just can't call a guy who has grown into a complete player over the years for the role he has as a hit or miss kind of guy. He isn't Batista. Who is pretty bad for his overall career, but had his hits out there too. To me, that's more along the line of hit & miss. Not a guy who is normally consistent, but isn't some deity that can shy away from bad matches. Everyone has a few bad matches in their career. Comes w/the territory.


I don't know if I would put him in that consistent big time player status anymore though. It's not just "a few bad matches". It's fundamental mistakes. There should be no excuse for a veteran to forget to sell after going through hard fought wars. There should be no excuse for a wrestler to throw out finishers in tag team matches involving Alberto Del Rio in order to get a hot tag.

Yes, the cage match against Wyatt and the 3SOH match against Ryback for instance are examples of the gimmick and booking ruining the match, but there are instances of Cena recently where the circumstances were fitting to have a great match and he failed. Matches like against Wyatt at Payback, vs. Del Rio at HIAC and SvS, Orton at TLC, Ryback at ER, and Money in the Bank performances in 2012 and 2014. You can't really blame the gimmick in those cases when Cena sells shittily and has other people do the grunt work while he sits back in multi-man situations.

Just because a match is a gimmick match doesn't mean that you must half-ass a performance. A big time player can break through those barriers and still put on good performances. But most importantly, they work smart. And Cena hasn't really been working intelligently recently except when it comes to avoiding bumps. Don't you think it's fair to expect more from a main eventer? Cena's workload was tremendous in 2007 too and he was very good in big time situations. Guys like Sheamus, Bryan, Punk, Shield, the Wyatts, and possibly Orton have a better big match track record in recent years, and frankly Cena just pales in comparison to those guys. We've been accustomed so long for subpar main event performances from the mid-late 2000s that our expectations have dropped.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Nah b/c gimmicks always fuck people up. Doesn't matter their status in the company or if they're new or old. It's just convoluted garbage a lot of the time. LMS w/Cena & Wyatt was a terrible showing for both equally. Embarrassing stuff that was off from the opening bell. The Undertaker flubbed up big time at WM vs Triple H (not to bring it up again, but the point remains) and that doesn't effect Taker's career any. Nor does it for Cena when a match that is project to be crap pulls through as that.

Certainly wouldn't put someone like Orton over Cena either. That's just a joke. Wyatts are a big no no too. But it's probably irrelevant to bring up this subject w/certain people. b/c apparently you can't bring up Cena w/o any of these new faces being used as a comparison when the status of each doesn't measure up in the slightest. Seth Rollins in multiple six man tags w/o gimmicks vs Cena in main event situations that can be watered down b/c of what the company wants those matches to be. Yeah, not a fair comparison at all.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Did he actually slap Dunn or is that a joke? If it's true, awesome.

Boring character but outstanding wrestler. Say what you will about them, but WWE has lost quality in-ring workers with Punk walking it, Bryan being injured and now ADR being released.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Nah b/c gimmicks always fuck people up. Doesn't matter their status in the company or if they're new or old. It's just convoluted garbage a lot of the time. LMS w/Cena & Wyatt was a terrible showing for both equally. Embarrassing stuff that was off from the opening bell. The Undertaker flubbed up big time at WM vs Triple H (not to bring it up again, but the point remains) and that doesn't effect Taker's career any. Nor does it for Cena when a match that is project to be crap pulls through as that.
> 
> Certainly wouldn't put someone like Orton over Cena either. That's just a joke. Wyatts are a big no no too. But it's probably irrelevant to bring up this subject w/certain people. b/c apparently you can't bring up Cena w/o any of these new faces being used as a comparison when the status of each doesn't measure up in the slightest. Seth Rollins in multiple six man tags w/o gimmicks vs Cena in main event situations that can be watered down b/c of what the company wants those matches to be. Yeah, not a fair comparison at all.



I don't disagree with you at all. In the modern era (that is, post Hogan WWE) the only guys to be on top the same length of time as Cena are really only Triple H, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, and Randy Orton. Those are the only guys I can think of who were credible main eventers for a decade or more (there might be more). You can't escape having stinkers when you're on top that long. In fact, you're gonna have a large amount of stinkers when you wrestle in main events consistently for 10 years. The Undertaker is one of my all time favorites, and he's had PLENTY of bad bad bad matches. People just give Cena more shit because they don't like him personally and hate how he is booked. Hey, I'm as guilty as the next guy in that regard, I definitely have to stop myself sometimes from being outright hateful of John because of how he is presented/booked/written. But you atleast need to recognize you're motivations when you are gonna take shots at him. Im sure you can dig up several Taker main event matches where he didn't sell properly, or turned in an all around sub par performance. It happens. I'm not employee of the month material every single day I go to work.

I think Cena is a great wrestler. In fact, I think a big part of why I get irritated when he turns in a dud is that I've grown to really expect him to be great night in and night out. I don't get mad when Miz sucks, because I expect Miz to suck.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's half of my point behind it, tbhayley. The Cena hate. Doesn't matter to me if you're a fan or not, but wouldn't feel "hit or miss" describes his career. :draper2


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> That's half of my point behind it, tbhayley. The Cena hate. Doesn't matter to me if you're a fan or not, but wouldn't feel "hit or miss" describes his career. :draper2


Eh, I guess for me, I would define his 2005-2006 part as mainly miss, 2007-2009 stuff as hits, and then afterwards it gets kinda murky. But I guess hit-or-miss differs in definition between folks. Like I would consider Batista to be plain "miss" instead of a hit-or-miss guy. But the best indicator is "what have you done for me lately", and well, what has Cena done for us lately? Don't really see how putting Orton over Cena is laughable though. At the very least, they're close in talent. It's up for debate.


That Rhodes brothers show with Jericho might have been the best. Cody's memory is so impressive. And that story of Roddy Piper not knowing how to hard-way Goldust was hilarious. Cool to hear Goldust rave over the Vitamin C series too. He also seems to love his current run more than any in his career. Even more than his awesome 1992-1994 WCW run.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Batista was loose translation & also w/the benefit of the doubt for his success in the company rather than my full tilt opinion. Again, loose & off the top of my head for another "big name". Could have potentially struck w/someone better - hell, I should have said Orton, he is perfect. Great start & immediate slide down. Peaked early. 50/50 career.

I fear the annoying repercussions of this now, but it's what I see.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

What about Luger?


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

When was Luger bad, again? Almost nobody has convinced me yet and I've seen 1999 Lex Luger look pretty passable.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Did he have anything worth going out of your way to see after 92? He was certainly good from 88-92, but I can only think of one decent singles match after 92, and that was because Yokozuna played a good obstacle. And even that match was kinda boring.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

lol, I feel like every time I see funnyfaces and Yeah converse, it's about Lex Luger.

Swagger/Del Rio was a really good match, you guys were right. Good way to go out.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

He was fun as hell to watch in 1996. He was kind of a heel but when tagging with Sting he was putting on a friendly buddy-buddy act and then when Sting turned his back he'd stop high-fiving the fans and not care. But I don't see why ''worth going out of your way'' would be the cutting point. My question was when was he BAD? If someone tells me he was bad in 1994 I won't argue against it until I see it because I don't know how much 1994 Luger I've seen, but I literally never get an answer to ''when was Luger bad?'' that isn't just ''after he left WCW the first time he always sucked''. Which is pretty much bullshit. I wasn't being rhetorical, I'd truly like to know when Luger was bad. I'm not going to pretend he was extremely consistent, but ''worth going out of your way to see'' isn't a great cut-off. How many times did Ric Flair have a match worth going out of your way to see in 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, or 2007? And that guy's an all time great.



LilOlMe said:


> lol, I feel like every time I see funnyfaces and Yeah converse, it's about Lex Luger.


HEY, we also talk about Goldberg, sometimes.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Luger had a good match on RAW with Crush in 1994. Just to throw that out there. Pretty sure I liked a match he had with Diesel too.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well let's go with Luger's 1994. I just watched his match with Backlund on Halloween. Backlund does a great job of picking apart Luger's arm and to Luger's credit, he did a good job of selling the arm wrenches that Backlund does. Backlund tries to do something that looks like a belly to belly overhead, but Luger bumps kinda funny. But Luger's comeback about nine minutes into the match was so infuriating. He does his Shawn Michaels punches and then he doesn't bother selling the arm that he did such a good job initially selling. I thought Luger had it understood that his arm was hurt when he did irish whips with his right hand, but then he does one with his left hand, followed by another bad punch.

Here is the video:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Luger in '98 can fuck off. But he isn't alone. The majority of the main event "talent pool" was pitiful.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

How's your search for a good Bret Hart match going? I recently watched a match I thought I liked from him against Booker T, but it wasn't that good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I would like to see his series vs DDP again. That's all I got left. So, he's pretty much locked up as a flop. At least he has the rest of his career before '97 pardon Austin magic.


----------



## Lazyking (Dec 25, 2011)

What's the thoughts on Luger/Pillman Halloween Havoc 89'? I recently watched it and thought meh at best. I really enjoyed the Flair matches Luger had in 88 though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Luger vs Pillman rocks.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Lazyking said:


> What's the thoughts on Luger/Pillman Halloween Havoc 89'? I recently watched it and thought meh at best. I really enjoyed the Flair matches Luger had in 88 though.


I'm a fan. Remember Luger hitting some major clotheslines. *** 1/2 I believe.

My favorite Luger match that isn't against Ric Flair was probably at Battle of the Belts II against Jesse Barr. Luger was full heel and it was pretty awesome.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Luger vs Mean Mark Callous, tbhayley. Hell of a match. Mean Mark should have went places.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Bret vs Taker from MSG in 1992 is pretty nice, especially considering the latter was still in his zombie phase.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Bret vs Taker from MSG in 1992 is pretty nice, especially considering the former was still in his zombie phase.


Match is fucking GREAT. Zombie phase worked to perfection there and I loved every second of it. My favorite match from Bret's Dungeon Collection set.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

It is pretty great.

Question: Do you take Austin's resume of matches before or after his neck injury?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Typically when I think of Austin I think of the Attitude Era, so I'd say everything pre-97 is just a bonus. Plenty of great stuff either way.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Luger in '98 can fuck off. But he isn't alone. The majority of the main event "talent pool" was pitiful.


Age in the Cage II, my friend. Gotta love it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Austin pre WWF days were great. I understand his boom as "Stone Cold", but I look back on his WCW heels days just as fondly.

and if there is a link to this Undertaker vs Bret out there, I want to see it. b/c I actually never have. If it can make up for their later crap, then omg.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

fuck Bret Hart :angle


Cant go wrong with both, go w/ pre neck injury just for the heck of it


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

EDIT: Fuck Shawn Michaels :henry1

Of course, this being only 1993, 2005, and 2006 Shawn


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well alright.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> and if there is a link to this Undertaker vs Bret out there, I want to see it. b/c I actually never have. If it can make up for their later crap, then omg.







EDIT: Never mind, it was only part one of HBK/Y2J.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Why put up with Low YT quality videos, when you can watch Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho @ Judgement Day 2008 on the WWE network for the low price of 9.99 ?


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Why put up with Low YT quality videos, when you can watch Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Jericho @ Judgement Day 2008 on the WWE network for the low price of 9.99 ?


Pretty good question. Cody, are you a subscriber to the WWE Network? You get every PPV every month and every one that's ever been made for just $9.99.

BUT, if you're not, I finally found a good link for that match, It's in 3 parts, with parts 2 and 3 on the side. The date is wrong but it's the JD '08 match:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5hjua_chris-jericho-vs-shawn-michaels-1-3_sport

Someone tell me how to embed Dailymotion videos please.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

video/x5h...aels-1-3_sport in the tags. 

and in limbo w/WWE Network account after the first six months finished.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Speaking of Luger, he and Bret had a very nice match on Superstars in 1993, where imo Luger more than held his own tbh. Can't remember the date though lol.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho vs Shawn thoughts:

ok, first off, this feud story is STUPID. its basically saying look how much of a piece of shit Shawn Michaels is, but he's the more beloved babyface by the audience. real smart job. Batista beating the piss out of him on the next PPV is more than justified, but Jericho having a desire to be mad at his also is. oh wow. Jericho's heel stuff that won so many over is spawned out of nonsensical logic. Tremendous.

The match: not a fan. Very mediocre. The chain wrestle to start. Jericho does a nifty counter out of a roll through. Shawn does his terrible figure four thingy. Shawn acts like a prick & gets all kinds of cheers. I shake my head. Jericho has a good pissed facial reaction. Like it's believable that he wants to tears his head off. I can buy that. Immediately following Jericho BLASTS Shawn in the eye w/a nasty elbow. That was awesome. Something happens _(cross arm breaker in the ropes; ha, I remembered)_ and Jericho has his arm worked over by Shawn. None of this matters at all for the rest of the match so who cares. waste of a few minutes right there. Jericho begins to target the mid section of Shawn. Its ok. Shawn is selling like usual. BAHH and NO'S to the ref. More patches of blurs. Jericho tells the ref to "get the fuck out of the way" Shawn avoids the leapfrog & hits SCM on the apron. A nice counter. Which is the only positive the match had. A few nice counters. Jericho was down on the ground for awhile. Shawn rolls him back in and Jericho survives b/c recovery time. Elbow from Shawn. Meh selling. It's there, but I think w/o the commentary most would forget how long Jericho truly worked on his midsection. Oh yeah, why the midsection when the start Jericho wanted HBK's? knee to see if it really was tweaked? Forgot that is another reason why I thought it stunk. He just started doing the rib work b/c it was there. Best part of the match is when Jericho teases being hurt a la Shawn. Shawn doesn't buy it but doesn't strike b/c he is wanting to hit the superkick for a second time. Shawn attempts, CODEBREAKER. That looked cool. Jericho milks it for idk why if he was playing possum. So that was a buzzkill. At least it kept his finisher credible that Shawn didn't kick out right away but still. Why? Unless he really was hurt and that play on Shawn's work from Backlash was nothing. Nearfall, more milking, Crossface. I never liked that being used by Shawn, except for vs Orton. But JR at least makes a neat call of saying "Jericho survived one SCM, what does he have left?" then the submission happens. Jericho lived. They try a few more counters until Shawn catches Jericho in a poorly done cradle & wins to the shock of both workers & even the ref. Underwhelmed.

Oh and I made this face :leo when JR shouted out this line when the match ended off the bad rollup: _"WHAT A HELLACIOUS COUNTER"_


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

After watching those 10 1999 Nitros recently, my opinion of Luger that time is... he was a great character . A cowardly heel doing everything in his power, including putting Liz in danger weekly, to get out of matches etc. Always made for a funny segment, one of the very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very rare things Russo did right during his tenure in Dub See Dub.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

*RE Del Rio*

Meltzer reported that TNA has already offered an immediate contract and the world title to Del Rio if he wants to jump. It also seems it was a worker on their website that he slapped. Meanwhile, Cubsfan believes that Del Rio is happy in Florida, where his family now is, and won't move permanently back to Mexico. Realistically, he isn't going to get much option working random dates for CMLL. Of course there is space for Dos Caras to return, but I'm not sure CMLL are willing enough to start retiring their older stars in his favour. As much as he may have said he enjoyed his CMLL run, he was more lost in the shuffle there, anyway, with his last work being a "well, if our main event fucks up for the anniversary show we'll use you" programme. Ideally, I want him in AAA. In this ideal world that means Electroshock and Cibernetico are depushed in favour of Del Rio and Averno. In reality, Averno, a talented and over wrestler who jumped to AAA this year, is already being lost in the now saturated card. Del Rio may just become the next guy to suffer that fate. A pity, considering there is massive money to be made from Mistico/Del Rio even if their backstage animosity may run counter-intuitive to Konnan's attempts to keep everyone happy and getting along.





Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jericho vs Shawn thoughts:


Worse than the ladder match? At least now I know I can skip this, too.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rah said:


> *RE Del Rio*
> 
> Meltzer reported that TNA has already offered an immediate contract and the world title to Del Rio if he wants to jump. It also seems it was a worker on their website that he slapped. Meanwhile, Cubsfan believes that Del Rio is happy in Florida, where his family now is, and won't move permanently back to Mexico. Realistically, he isn't going to get much option working random dates for CMLL. Of course there is space for Dos Caras to return, but I'm not sure CMLL are willing enough to start retiring their older stars in his favour. As much as he may have said he enjoyed his CMLL run, he was more lost in the shuffle there, anyway, with his last work being a "well, if our main event fucks up for the anniversary show we'll use you" programme. Ideally, I want him in AAA. In this ideal world that means Electroshock and Cibernetico are depushed in favour of Del Rio and Averno. In reality, Averno, a talented and over wrestler who jumped to AAA this year, is already being lost in the now saturated card. Del Rio may just become the next guy to suffer that fate. A pity, considering there is massive money to be made from Mistico/Del Rio even if their backstage animosity may run counter-intuitive to Konnan's attempts to keep everyone happy and getting along.
> 
> ...


Part of me wants him in TNA just to be World Champion over Lashley. But TNA is so lol & probably dead, so what is the point? Also, jokey that they would ruin taped plans of their World Championship picture, just to give it to Del Rio, possibly right off the bat. So Averno is good eh? b/c the bit I've seen, he wasn't. Not saying he couldn't have improved. It was '08 stuff, after all.

Depends on what annoys yo more to be dubbed as worse than the Ladder Match. b/c you seem to loathe it to some degree. But regardless, skip it. Totally not worth your time. Jericho would get Cena later in the year and prove he has something of value as a top flight heel on the brand. That's what matters.


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Rah said:


> Worse than the ladder match? At least now I know I can skip this, too.


The ladder match might be their worst match on PPV. Which is saying something because it's GREAT. Hah, no, it blows. I liked Judgment Day and reallllllly liked GAB, though. I used to love Unforgiven but that went down to hell on a re-watch as well. I'll watch them again when I do my 2008 WWE list. That'll happen one day. I mean it.


On that note, it's nearly been a year since I started the 2010 list. I've only watched half of the PPVs. You know what? Tomorrow is Saturday, I don;t really have shit to do; I'll watch MITB. Well, I'll have to watch the first couple of matches again even though I did before.....never wrote about them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

If you don't put Mysterio vs Swagger over to a high degree, yet praise those crummy 08 matches, ....no more Pez for you.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I've noticed a lot of HBK hate in this thread. I don't think my heart is ready to continue to read this.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Crummy97 said:


> I've noticed a lot of HBK hate in this thread. I don't think my heart is ready to continue to read this.


Most of it seems to stem from his second run tbh. 

I admit I'm not the biggest fan of that either, I didn't like how he incorporated chops all the time, but I suppose I understand he changed after hus back issues.

Still, there are some gems from 02-10.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't know what it is, but I watch most HBK matches with rose-tinted glasses, but yeah, he was god-awful in 03 imo. Except for the match with Jericho, everything sucked.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Its my way of saying people need to only talk about Shawn more often as a member of The Rockers. b/c that's when he was golden. No phony crap. No bs crybaby nonsense. Just a talented young dude in a great tandem.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yay, Rockers love. :mark: I'm still upset about that damn barber shop incident. Still remember watching it as kid saying, what is he doing.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Lets all blame Ed Harrison Leslie for the tragic turn of events. YOU DID IT BEEFCAKE. I BLAME YOU.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

The first Michaels match I ever saw was the one from SummerSlam 02. I didn't even know about The Rockers until a few years ago. I'm too damn young for the internet .


----------



## The True Believer (Oct 19, 2013)

Crummy97 said:


> I've noticed a lot of HBK hate in this thread. I don't think my heart is ready to continue to read this.


FACK THE HEARTBREAK! 

But seriously, he was pretty overrated in his last run. Though he did have a GOAT-wroth match with Taker at Wrestlemania 25 so he's good in my book.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

TBH, when The Rockers were a team, I was just a big a fan of Janetty too.  but even as a kid I knew Michaels is the 'star'.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

I never viewed either one as a separate superior half. I still kind of don't, despite their career paths. That's what made them so awesome. Both played well off each other. Of course, I kind of contradict myself b/c my favorite tag team is the Midnight Express and while I love Stan Lane & like Dennis Condrey, I'd put Bobby Eaton over them. But, that isn't a stretch. I put Bobby Eaton over a LOT. Still _the_ tremendous duo regardless of one standing out more to me than another. Oh yeah, and The Rockers too.









I'm in a mood to watch Buzz Saywer, Ron Bass, & X-Pac vs Shane McMahon from WrestleMania 15. It is one of those nights.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

With the talk of HBK/Jericho. What are people's thoughts on their WM19 match? Because I still think it's a classic. Never seen the Raw rematch though.

Midnight Express though. :mark:


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

A defined story that sticks w/it the entire way. I'm a fan.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Jericho vs Shawn thoughts:
> 
> ok, first off, this feud story is STUPID. its basically saying look how much of a piece of shit Shawn Michaels is, but he's the more beloved babyface by the audience. real smart job. Batista beating the piss out of him on the next PPV is more than justified, but Jericho having a desire to be mad at his also is. oh wow. Jericho's heel stuff that won so many over is spawned out of nonsensical logic. Tremendous.
> 
> ...


UGH. You didn't pay attention to any of the mind games those two were playing with each other. I never cared how the feud started because when I watched it I didn't see the buildup video. Jericho doesn't attack the leg later in the match because he realizes it's not really hurt and the suckering in for the codebreaker was pure genius to combat Shawn doing it to him earlier. I'm pretty sure your dislike towards Shawn got in the way here. It seems apparent.

Don't listen to him *Rah*. It's a great match.

Assuming you didn't get to the Bret/Taker MSG match yet?



Crummy97 said:


> I've noticed a lot of HBK hate in this thread. I don't think my heart is ready to continue to read this.


It's spreading for some ridiculous reason and I DON'T LIKE IT. We have to turn on everything in here. EVERYTHING. WHY!?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

:booka

I like how the post right above that where it mentions I like Jericho vs Michaels from WrestleMania, but nah. Totally blind hate only b/c you love the match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

:lol

Oh well, I tried. Watch Bret vs. Taker from '92 sometime.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Slogged through their other matches, now with having watched their promos and/or reading the storyline points



*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Great American Bash)* - I'm not sure what's worse, HBK's punches or Jericho's knees. It's rather incongruous running a hate-fueled feud between these two when they're so far from being effective offense workers. Equally, it's fun to see HBK take over some of Flair's spots and completely show himself up as not knowing how to do any of them. His version of the figure-four is laughable, considering he interlaces with the WRONG leg of Jericho's. Jericho's workover is alright, though, if a little uninspired, loose and not continually focusing on the right body part (Shawn's injured ribs). Otherwise fine. Shawn kinda grimmaces to build his support but it all just feels... boring. For a man who makes a spectacle of every entrance, only to come down here with this super serious face, he didn't much do anything here to sell the hate. They kinda started with elbow exchanges and stopped. Why do a (missed) moonsault to the outside? Why is Jericho so hesitant in going for the now bleeding eye? Why is the referee/injury stoppage angle so melodramatic, long-winded and effectively pointless in its execution? Why am I questioning this garbage?


*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Judgment Day)* - as bad as they were at Great American Bash in acting like enemies, they were even worse at trying to relive Jericho's juniour heavyweight days in the 90s. Why are they throwing counters out and trying to one-up the other? I know this storyline makes no sense, and Batista got the win over Shawn at the next PPV, but why is Jericho not coming in wanting to actually hurt HBK for "breaking his trust" as King said. How did he even break his trust, anyway? Does Jericho take his referee role as the epitome of his character and anything that comes as a blotch to his resume is now automatically worthy of his anger? Couldn't Regal and the other backstage staff have simply asked the doctor if HBK was cleared to wrestle instead of relying on Jericho, who is a heel, and has lied before? It wasn't as if Shawn had missed seeing, at the very least, the physio guy, after the PPV with Batista BECAUSE WE SAW THAT ON AIR. If he was injured, word would have got out and he wouldn't be booked on the shows. The guy can barely walk up the ring steps, for fuck's sake, why is no one questioning the logic here?!



*Shawn Michaels vs Chris Jericho (Unforgiven)* - no, just no. They tease a spot where HBK goes to hit Sweet Chin Music only to pause and realise he isn't quite satisfied in the beating he has given Jericho. We're not even halfway into the match, nor have we seen blood or a good use of weapon spots, and they pull this. If this feud was made into a movie, Birdemic nor The Room could outdo its sheer illogical and non-continuous narrative. I wish I was being hyperbolic in that statement, but it was bad enough for me to stop watching this match.






Jack Evans 187 said:


> Don't listen to him *Rah*. It's a great match.


Whoops


This isn't really a reply to Jack Evans more than it is myself wanting to comment on the Cena debate you guys had last night



Jack Evans 187 said:


> It's spreading for some ridiculous reason and I DON'T LIKE IT. We have to turn on everything in here. EVERYTHING. WHY!?


Cena gets an overly critical look that a lot of other guys get passed on. Especially with this, is that whenever he does have a bad match (and not necessarily even a bad performance) it's remembered so readily because it falls into a form of confirmation bias that he really isn't as good as either the WWE or others make him out to be. These Jericho/HBK matches I believe show how bad patches get glossed over for others. These are four somewhat high profile matches in which both guys looked horrific in a feud that does blemish their career. I won't deny that Cena does have bad moments, but his post-match selling hate is incongruous to the fact that people herald Bryan as the best in the world despite gloriously raising the titles with the injured arm at Wrestlemania. I'm equally sure a lot of posters here hold Jericho and HBK as great wrestlers, the latter as an all-time great. The problem is that HBK equally falls into the Cena criticism of delivering "only" when the time is needed to do so. Shawn has some good years, and he was great in the matches I have seen of The Rockers, but I see less argument or body of work for HBK as a great than I do Cena. At the very least, the two need to be held closer together than others do rate them.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Jericho wasn't even a heel during the match at Judgment Day too, btw :lmao

and people, watch this week's NXT. T'was awesome. Opener was like "woah, this is really good" type stuff. Eva Marie also almost kills herself doing an O'Connor roll. Can't miss.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I swear, if this series of matches becomes the cool thing to hate just because a small group of people start doing so, it's gonna be ridiculous. We'll just add it to the list. If you never liked them from the beginning then that's one thing.

I can say I NEVER looked that deep into any of the story going into the JD match as you did Rah. I just put in the Superstar Collection DVD and there it was. I dont know what's wrong with counters and trying to one-up the other. That's just trying to win a match. I believe Jericho was cautious at the start because he didn't trust Shawn and didn't know what to believe. Which is what makes it better once he starts pulling the same shit against Shawn. 

But again, oh well. I'm just getting worked up for no reason.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

With how much I mark for Shawn Michaels and Y2J, I will never budge on my liking for that series of matches.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

That series came down to both my feelings on how the WWE work lengthier matches in that year as well as how I interpreted the narrative within their matches. We all tend to use the cop-out that matches are subjective when we disagree, but this is a series I can warrant that being half valid for. Besides, if people are to now follow my lead blindly in hating that series I'm not quite sure they are worth getting worked up over, anyway. If they take my comments into account, watch it and formulate their own dislike of it, great. If they still love it, and can argue why, even better.

Yeah1993 said he likes two of the matches. I'm sure people here follow his word a hell of a lot more than mine, anyway.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Welp, time for me to talk about why Mysterio vs. Eddie is overrated again.

Or we can talk about the Midnight Rockers vs. Somers and Rose.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Just watched Heymans DVD, perfect.

I just love the guys drive and passion, from how he got into the business, to his goals as a promoter and creative writer for ECW and even Smackdown to even the man we see today. His words make me believe in the future of the WWE, he sees talent, we KNOW there is talent, some time in the future something will click. I love Heyman as an on screen talent, fuck I'd even love him back on commentary but I really want him writing Raw. Please.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

So... from what I'm seeing, the Michaels/Jericho feud is the next hate victim it seems. Sooner or later, Taker/Michaels is the one that's gonna come down, I'm telling ya. And I don't like it a single bit. Hell, ff1 is on his way to try to expose EDDIE/MYSTERIO of all feuds. This place is fucking bonkers :lol.

How about, instead of any of you fuckers trying to BAHRY the HBK/Y2J feud, we glorify Del Rio's work? I was pretty shocked at hearing he was fired myself, so today we should devote this thread in honor of his stuff. Del Rio I never found someone overly enjoyable - thought he was pretty bland as a character and as talker, and outside of a few performances (vs Swagger, Ziggler and Big Show on SD :banderas), one of the worst babyfaces ever - but when he was on, he was ON. The performance at Payback last year against Ziggler has gotta be a contender for Heel Performance of the Decade, really. Cody was saying that it was enjoyable when he wasn't against Ziggles every night - Dolph was his best opponent and the one he had the most chemistry with in my mind . Anyway, Alberto will be sorely missed for his in-ring work, definitely. But at least one of his last two matches (the one w/Ambrose on Raw) was a really good.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I actually thought Del Rio was a good face. It was great whenever he defended Ricardo. And he certainly looked like he enjoyed being a babyface especially since that was his alignment in Mexico. The Big Show feud ruled too.


----------



## JustJoel (Aug 2, 2013)

I actually liked ADR's series leading up to and including SS w/Christian more than the Ziggler set (or anyone else) from that year. The SD! from two weeks before SS was the best SD! match from 2013, and top 10 or very close from all of last year. The SS culmination wasn't much off from it, but really, the trilogy was awesome. 

I was really excited for him after SS and NoC - after the bruising around his ear, black eye, and trickle coming down his nose, he was looking mean as hell and matched his look with being extra grimey in the ring. Shame.

And bring on a Rey/Eddie critique - you can't scratch diamonds, boys


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Hey, best Smackdown match of 2013 was Shield/Hell No & Orton II. That's one of the forgotten classics of the Shield, nothing beat that. :side:

However, ADR/Christian before (and after) SS are both top 10 SD matches of the year definitely. The SS one is possibly a top 20 MOTY overall imo. ADR was on a roll, arguably the best heel of the company at the time... then came RVD. Urgh.

Well he still had the Cena match at HIAC afterwards. SVS was good too, but it was basically a copy-paste of HIAC, so yeah.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I liked the RVD matches. Fun fun fun. But that's scary when you think about it. ADR/Christian is maybe a top 20 match in the WWE when it would be a top ten match any other year. If that isn't evidence that 2013 is the best in ring year, I don't know what is. Especially since Austin's work in 2001 lagged in the second half.

Don't like the Cena/ADR HIAC match. Cena doesn't understand how to sell an arm on offense. Just bad on his part.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Cena no selling, surely not. :side:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I have a sudden urge to watch Del Rio Vs Christian from SS. Could have sworn I owned the event on Bluray, but I only have SS 09, '10 and '11.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Not a fan of Del Rio, glad to see he won't be on WWE TV anymore wasting space, but he has had a few great matches. His best being his match with Ziggler at PB. Ziggler was phenomenal in that match, but to Del Rio's credit, he played his part very well. His Ladder match against Christian, SD match in 2013 right before Summerslam against Christian, the Summerslam match against Christian, triple threat Cell match with Punk and Cena, SVS match against Punk... and I think he had a great match with Swagger on Smackdown after Mania 29? 

Ultimately though, his promo ability was too poor and his in-ring ability wasn't great enough to make me a fan like I am of Cesaro. Just too bland and given way too much.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I liked the RVD matches. Fun fun fun. But that's scary when you think about it. ADR/Christian is maybe a top 20 match in the WWE when it would be a top ten match any other year. If that isn't evidence that 2013 is the best in ring year, I don't know what is. Especially since Austin's work in 2001 lagged in the second half.
> 
> Don't like the Cena/ADR HIAC match. *Cena doesn't understand how to sell an arm on offense.* Just bad on his part.


Maybe his arm selling in that match did suck, but he DOES understand how to sell an arm on offense.






One of the best matches of 2013, easily. Sandow's career match. SANDOW. FUCK YOU FOR WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH HIM, WWE.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

HBK/Jericho bites the dust too. :lol

I'm not the biggest fan of those series although I enjoy them and I agree that this place is nuts. Which further shows why you should stick to your real opinion and not let it affect you, ATF. _(Specifically referring to your bipolarity in regards to Benoit/Angle matches)_ 

What are the HBK matches in his second run here that are _not_ hated yet? Taker matches obviously but that goes without saying. Looks like Orton match from Survivor Series may be safe too so I'm happy with that at least. :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Don't know if I would call it one of the best matches of 2013 (maybe top 50, even though it rules), but that just makes things more frustrating considering how good Cena is here. He had another good arm selling moment against Edge in a cage match.

Del Rio and Sandow had a really nice match in 2013. Sandow played an impromptu face.

Orton/Michaels matches are safe. I'll make sure of it. JD match rules.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh shit, I completely forgot about that ADR/Sandow match on Smackdown. That stuff was BADfuckingASS. Yeah, sue me for being a biased fanboy of Sandow's, but him being a babyface and getting babyface reactions against a wrestler as easily detestable as Del Rio was so :mark:. That and the match itself was quite good too. Felt almost as good to see that than to see Chicago shit all over Sheamus in Sandow's favor at Payback last year tbh (even if I do like Sheamus - in-ring only though :side.



Choke2Death said:


> HBK/Jericho bites the dust too. :lol
> 
> I'm not the biggest fan of those series although I enjoy them and I agree that this place is nuts. *Which further shows why you should stick to your real opinion and not let it affect you, ATF. (Specifically referring to your bipolarity in regards to Benoit/Angle matches) *
> 
> What are the HBK matches in his second run here that are _not_ hated yet? Taker matches obviously but that goes without saying. Looks like Orton match from Survivor Series may be safe too so I'm happy with that at least. :lol


I don't even know what I think of those matches anymore :lmao

Ok maybe I do - I know that I adore Backlash, I love WM 17, I like both Insurrextions and I'm 50/50 on Unforgiven and Royal Rumble. Judgment Day is a guilty pleasure, even if technically terrible. Haven't seen the Cage match in forever but it did produce the single greatest wrestling gif of all time:








, and haven't been assed to watch their SD matches in 02/03. THERE GODDAMMIT.

And I don't think anyone is that nuts to start shitting over the Orton/HBK matches too. Well the 2007 ones sure ain't getting shit afaic, especially SVS. Though Cal already did start the revolution - he shat over their Unforgiven 2003 one. :lol


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Michaels matches from his 2nd run that are safe? I would hope that his return match at SummerSlam 02 and vs Angle at Mania 21 don't get attacked here.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

General opinion on those two:
- vs HHH at SS 2002 gets seen mostly as either decent/mediocre, though a few of us do still love it;
- vs Angle at WM 21, outside of myself, Cal, I guess Smithy and maybe some other, is absolutely LOATHED in here - and if you like the Vengeance match too, that's seen as even worse. Iron Man is EVEN worse than that (though that one is legit awful imo).

So you're too late, dude. 

You know the one Shawn Michaels match from his 2nd run that shouldn't get shit on (but then again is rarely talked about anyway)? vs HHH from Taboo Tuesday 2004. Make that four of them - the two ones against Benoit, and Unforgiven against Kane as well, all from 2004.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Judgment Day is a guilty pleasure, even if technically terrible.


^ That's what I'm talking about. Just because others think it's terrible that shouldn't stop you from enjoying it if that's what you do. You also don't need to specifically look for flaws and nitpick just so your opinion matches the rest. That's just my take on it, though.

Their cage match is "technically terrible" too but I wont hesitate for a minute to give it 4 stars because I always have a blast watching it and above all, it's FUN.



Crummy97 said:


> Michaels matches from his 2nd run that are safe? I would hope that his return match at SummerSlam 02 and vs Angle at Mania 21 don't get attacked here.


Too late! Those matches already cope a fair amount of shit in here, specially the Angle one.

I enjoy both quite a bit but think they are overrated, just not as terrible as others in here will make them sound.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Well, shit. I'll just be over in the corner then, don't mind me .


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Crummy97 said:


> Michaels matches from his 2nd run that are safe? I would hope that his return match at SummerSlam 02 and vs Angle at Mania 21 don't get attacked here.


They both suck and I worship the ground Michaels' walks on :hbk


Eh, I'm fine w/ the HBK 02-10 run criticism, as some of it is warranted, and it is coming from those who have had this opinion on him for a very long time and didnt just change their opinions for the sake of it. Also you can like/dislike whoever you want too. I personally have never been to high on the HBK/Y2J series myself, although I did like the JD and TGAB match from last watch. the Mania 19 is by far my more LOVE/HATE match of all time. I dont care for any of their other matches though ( have to rewatch that raw match from 7/03)


Speaking of 2008, that Hardy/Cena raw match is













Edit: Whenever ATF admits Angle is his favorite wrestler, he wont be so confused :angle


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Others think it's terrible is an understatement - I'm the ONLY person fond of that match. At least here in this board. I've always defended that Judgment Day match tbh, it's not in "stages" like their Royal Rumble one where once I thought it was *****, then I thought it was a DUD and now I PERMANENTLY think it's pretty good but flawed (50/50 ). I've ALWAYS liked it, I don't know why, I just have fun with it. Maybe it's DAT nostalgia factor .

And Crummy, you're not alone. All of us have that one match that we personally like but everybody else (or most everybody else) doesn't. Just ask what Cal thinks about Taker/Austin from Backlash '02. Or what C2D thinks about Cena/Orton RR 2014. 8*D

And regarding that Angle thing, NEVER. Austin is in that position for a long, long time and he won't be left out. :austin


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Alright, since I'm trying to get acquainted with this thread, what does everyone here think of Mankind/Taker from KOTR 98? My opinion on that match changes every time I watch it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

FUCKING AMAZING for me. Argument that it's just two massive bumps is ridiculous when there's so much more after them. Best match of their feud imo. Revenge Of The Taker comes second, King Of The Ring '96 comes third. I only don't like their Boiler Room Brawl that much, thought it was dull as crap for great deal of it.

And to make myself clear, Mick Foley is God. Also needed to say that. Because Mick Foley is God.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Did someone say AUSTIN VS UNDERTAKER BACKLASH 2002?!?!  ************************* GOATEST MATCH OF ALL THE TIMES~!

Taker/Mankind HIAC rules. For a bunch of different reasons. It's memorable, it's violent, and they kept on going AFTER the 2 big bumps as well. Just a shame there wasn't really a feud going into it; should have been the big final blow off to their 2 year epic rivalry. Kinda was, just not in the storyline way .


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

After watching and rewatching it over and over again, I've come to the conclusion that I find it to be an ok match. The 2 huge spots are great, but imo it's basically a squash for Taker. The brawling was awful after the second bump (obviously), and Foley just got the absolute shit knocked out of him. I have a hard time getting into matches when there's no chance for one of the wrestlers to win. :shrug


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

Saw Sandow/Cena being talked about, I have it a rewatch a week or so ago. Still is a top 20 match of the year definitely, and Sandow's best in WWE so far. Also, that Sandow/Del Rio match from Smackdown I completely forgot about. I remember it being really good, but I'd have to give it another watch. 

Now HBK/Jericho matches are getting hate? Dayum...


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I can't rate Mankind/Taker HIAC. It's just hard to do. On one hand, it's immune to criticism as far as I'm concerned due to the two amazing spots but at the same time, I can't call it a classic because there isn't much more to it other than those two spots. It's basically a squash where Foley damn near kills himself to make it memorable.



ATF said:


> Or what C2D thinks about Cena/Orton RR 2014. 8*D


You damn right! 

Just D/Led the match into my PC the other day. Will rewatch it again soon to see if it's still as good as I remember it being. It did go down for me a bit, though. After I watched a house show match they had at MSG which was pretty much the exact same in structure minus the finisher stealing.

At least they did give us something that's easier to enjoy without mixed feelings in the Raw match two weeks after. Also saw a steel cage house show match of theirs on youtube that I enjoyed.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I have to agree on Orton/Cena. I think the crowd's disdain for it made it even better. Orton being a cocky asshole about it made me genuinely want to see someone make him tap out. I would've preferred it be Bryan, but I guess Cena makes for a suitable replacement . Anyway, they really stepped it up to try and get the crowd into it. It turned into a finisher fest near the end, but I still thought it was a pretty good match. 

Not quite a classic, but not terrible either.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yeah, thought that Raw match between the two of them, which I saw recently, was OK. Could've been far worse, especially considering how I never, ever wanted to see another match between the two of them after the HORRIFEST that was the Rumble match imo. I mean Orton did try to make it pretty good w/his heel antics, but he wouldn't even save himself, let alone the match. Nevermind the action being bleh, the crowd wasn't taking any of it and it just made the whole thing more awkward than ever. If you were to ask me if there were any differences between Cena/Orton RR 2014 and Cena/Rock WM 29 (which I hated for the exact same reasons), I'd say... one had Orton and the other had Rock. One was in the Royal Rumble and the other WrestleMania. And one had a dirty smark crowd and the other had pretty much a dead crowd. That's it.

Which makes me think - Orton REALLY, REALLY, REALLY needs to give a shit come SS. He hinted on Twitter that he will ("I'm back" tweet after the beatdown on Reigns), but I'm still worried - because if he doesn't, Orton/Reigns is damn near guaranteed DUD for my liking. Praise the lord SS itself isn't a DUD, especially after last year being GOAT-good (well, 2nd GOAT-good, since 2002 is better and the ACTUAL greatest PPV ever).


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

I always say I'm going to watch stuff and then I never do so I shouldn't even say this but I've already started typing so I might as well. This talk of the Jericho/Michaels series has me wanting to re-watch it. I always liked the ladder match less than everybody else, can't remember Unforgiven or GAB (other than Shawn's eye being the focus) and I recall thinking Judgment Day was a pretty swell match. Hopefully I actually get around to watching them. My tastes have changed dramatically since then so I have no idea what I'll think.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

ATF said:


> Which makes me think - Orton REALLY, REALLY, REALLY needs to give a shit come SS. He hinted on Twitter that he will ("I'm back" tweet after the beatdown on Reigns), but I'm still worried - because if he doesn't, Orton/Reigns is damn near guaranteed DUD for my liking.


Indeed. I'm confident if Orton brings his A-game, he can carry Reigns to an at least decent match. Maybe he will because he always seems to perform well in the bigger PPVs (Wrestlemania & SummerSlam).

But if he half-asses it, then it may be a DUD since Reigns himself can't do shit other than his 5 moves of doom.



> If you were to ask me if there were any differences between Cena/Orton RR 2014 and Cena/Rock WM 29 (which I hated for the exact same reasons), I'd say... one had Orton and the other had Rock. One was in the Royal Rumble and the other WrestleMania. And one had a dirty smark crowd and the other had pretty much a dead crowd. That's it.


Those are pretty big differences, though. And I don't buy the "crowd wasn't taking any of it" thing. Crowd had only one intention and that was to ruin it. FROM THE BEGINNING BEFORE THE MATCH EVEN STARTED! I don't think it's the wrestler's fault that they have a shitty crowd in place.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

I'll be shocked if Orton/Reigns isn't completely horrible, really shocked. I have no faith in Orton being able to carry Reigns. The only small hope this match has is if the two have great chemistry. They had a match on Raw that wasn't good, but it was short at least. I expect the match at Summerslam to get at least 15 minutes.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I didn't like HBK/HHH at Taboo Tuesday :side: That one is universally panned here too as being boring. I also found it funny how it took three people to beat a man with one leg. Didn't like Hardy/Cena either. Too much stalling until they trade signature moves. Funniest crowd ever though :lol. Fifteen minutes of girls screaming.

So what is everybody's guilty pleasure match? I'm sticking with my assertion that Jericho/Punk at Payback is better than all but two Eddie/Rey matches.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

#BadNewsSanta said:


> I'll be shocked if Orton/Reigns isn't completely horrible, really shocked. I have no faith in Orton being able to carry Reigns. The only small hope this match has is if the two have great chemistry. They had a match on Raw that wasn't good, but it was short at least. I expect the match at Summerslam to get at least 15 minutes.


There were reports of them stinking it up on house shows. I can't see it being good.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

Maybe they'll keep it short. Let Reigns destroy Orton in 18 seconds


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

funnyfaces1 said:


> I didn't like HBK/HHH at Taboo Tuesday :side: That one is universally panned here too as being boring. I also found it funny how it took three people to beat a man with one leg. Didn't like Hardy/Cena either. Too much stalling until they trade signature moves. Funniest crowd ever though :lol. Fifteen minutes of girls screaming.
> 
> So what is everybody's guilty pleasure match? I'm sticking with my assertion that Jericho/Punk at Payback is better than all but two Eddie/Rey matches.


Which is kinda a mad assertion :lol But hey, Punk/Jericho PB is entertaining after all. Wrestling is about FUN, and I found that match to be pretty damn fun. It had NOTHING on the live experience on rewatch, but hey, I found no reason to dislike it anyway even though it was a bit of a finisher fest really. 

For an actual guilty pleasure match, I've already said mine - Angle/Benoit Judgment Day. I'm one of about 10 people in the world who actually like this match :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

I'm another one of those ten. That match is good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Guilty pleasure? One of mine is HHH/Austin 3SOH.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I think Orton/Reigns is probably going to be pretty slow but I'm not going to count it out just yet. Stranger things have happened.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

HHH/Austin 3SOH is great. I finally get it. But five stars great, but great great.

I have faith in Roman and Orton. But I have more faith in Miz having MOTN.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Another big guilty pleasure is Awesome/Tanaka November 2 Remember. But apart from Cal, I assume that is praised anyways.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I don't really have a "guilty pleasure" since I am upfront about everything I enjoy. But if it's one of those "match I enjoy and nobody else", then I guess I'll go with Orton vs Cena from the Royal Rumble. Still haven't found a reason to hate that match. Enjoyed the action and whether they just improvised or not with the stolen finishers, I had fun with it. Enough for me to like it. Only issue with it for me is that it is almost like a carbon copy of their house show match from MSG and the awful crowd.

One of these days, I might rewatch Payback between Punk and Jericho to see if it's as awful as I remember it being. I can see where the negativity regarding Orton/Cena comes from, though. When watching Punk/Jericho, I was completely negative about it, the ring rust of Punk and later them saying "fuck it" and just exchanging finishers. On the other hand, I was completely sucked in to the action of Orton/Cena specially after the finisher exchanges. Others here obviously felt the same only the other way around.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm with C2D. No guilty pleasures for me. I likes what I liked and I ain't giving a shit if nobody else agrees .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

A guilty pleasure that I have too - well not sure if guilty pleasure, but kinda a match I like that I don't think anybody else even remembers, let alone likes - is one from 2008 TV: Cena & Orton vs the Raw Roster. Legit serious here.



The Fab Four said:


> Guilty pleasure? One of mine is HHH/Austin 3SOH.


Even in this board, I'm pretty certain everyone (or almost everyone) likes that match. Like even Cal, whom EVERYBODY expected to shit all over it, gave it a pretty good rating. Is there really anyone who actually dislikes that match, even in this board? :lol


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't know if it qualifies as a guilty pleasure because I don't know how this thread feels about it, but I love the first Elimination Chamber.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

First Elimination Chamber is very well regarded here, no need to worry about that. 

Though we all agree that the third one (New Year's Revolution 2005) is the GOAT Chamber match.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah, I guess 'guilty pleasures' is a kind of redundant statement really. If I like a match, then I like it. No one is going to change my mind lol.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I guess if anything, my "guilty pleasure" would be Shane vs Kane from Unforgiven 03. I've heard a lot of mixed feelings about that match.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Hope I didn't miss the trend train, some guilty pleasures of mine are the SS 03 EC, Orton/Cena TLC, Taker/Train & Show, Taker/Kane WM20 and Austin/Kane RAW after KOTR and maybe the KOTR match itself, needs a rewatch. I love Shane/Kane.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Just for shits and kicks, does anybody else agree that behind WrestleMania, SummerSlam and Royal Rumble (I wish I could say Survivor Series too), the next biggest night of the year is actually the Raw after Mania? It's pretty much the night where the product "reboots" when you think about it.

And on that matter, best Raw after Mania moments ever?

My own:
1) Brock Lesnar's return in 2012
2) Punk/Henry in 2012
3) Ric Flair's "retirement" in 2008
4) Ziggler winning the WHC in 2013
5) Sheamus/Orton in 2013 (the crowd may have been ripped off millions of times by now, but when it first happened, it was quite special :lol)


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

For me, nothing beats Brock returning. Even if it was leaked the day before, I only knew cos my idiot friend fucking text me about it. Arrrgggh.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Cena's "heel" turn.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I guess the best example of a guilty pleasure for me is I love cheesy old school kids movies like The Neverending Story, Honey I Shrunk the Kids, and The Secret of Nimh. But as far as pro graps go, I don't feel guilty at all for anything I like. No one is ever gonna convince me HBK/Angle WM 21 is anything other than a classic, and I really really love the 3SoH match between Austin and Hunter.

That said, one of the few matches that I have soured on over the years the more wrestling I watch is HBK/Hunter SS 2002. Watching it live, I thought it was tremendous. I watched it a few weeks ago and found myself openly pissed at how badly HBK's performance was in the second half after that fantastic work over by Hunter.

I really need to watch HBK/Orton SVS again. Didn't they have another PPV match at some point? Feels like I haven't seen those in ages. All I can recall of their SVS bout is HBK repeatedly taking Orton down with headlocks and a short arm scissors.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

HHH/HBK is one of my favourite SS matches of all time, dunno why so many people hate it


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Probably, since HBK/Orton SVS is the one where HBK can't hit SCM, so he resorts to a bunch of submissions instead.

And I forgot to add this to my top 5 Raw after Mania moments - Ultimate Warrior's promo from this year. Watching it as it happened, it was a nice feel-good moment that seemed like the dawn of a new life for Warrior. But just a fucking DAY later, that promo took an ENTIRELY different meaning. Like, HOLY FUCKING CRAP. Everything he said, every single fucking word... it just looked like he knew he was gonna die, for some reason.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

What do y'all think of Shawn vs Orton at UF and vs Batista at Armageddon in 03? I like them both.


----------



## Saint Dick (Jan 21, 2006)

My guilty pleasures? Any Melina match. Come at me.


----------



## Cliffy (Mar 31, 2011)

Just watched Hunter Vs Shawn from Raw 96.

Excellent TV Match that should get more mentions.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'm looking forward to Orton/Reigns by a good margin. I have faith in Orton this time around. Jericho/Wyatt is probably the match I'm least looking forward to come Summerslam. It's sort of unwarranted if you think about it. Jericho has already beaten Wyatt without Harper & Rowan being around and now they're doing it again.

HHH/HBK Summerslam '02, first Elimination Chamber (still the best for me), Cena/Del Rio at HIAC, Orton/HBK Unforgiven '03, like/love all of them.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Watching Nitro '96 atm. Eddie Guerrero vs................The Cheetah Kid. 

Still, two weeks until Halloween Havoc. Sorry, Slim Jim's Halloween Havoc.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When was that tag match when Bryan/Punk performed the 'Hart Attack'?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

That would be Punk, Bryan, Usos & Rhodes/Shield & Wyatts from Raw last year, I believe.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Fanks.  November wasn't it?


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Yup. 

In the mood for some TEAM HELL NO now. Haven't seen that tag vs Rey & Cara on SD in forever.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Watch shield vs. Rhodes bros./BRYAN sd from October instead ,


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

What's the best non-big 4 PPV from 02? I feel like watching some early Bork.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Crummy97 said:


> What's the best non-big 4 PPV from 02? I feel like watching some early Bork.


Probably No Mercy 2002. Has a bad ass tag (Benoit/Angle vs Edge/Mysterio) AND the 2nd greatest Hell I a Cell match ever in Brock vs Taker. Just an absolute blood bath. I think I've probably watched Brock/Taker more than all the other Cell matches, it just always hits that sweet spot for me.

If you want to see something else with early Brock, check out Vengeance 2002. Has a PHENOMENAL main event in the Rocky/Taker/Angle triple threat, a sweet little tables match in Benoit/Eddie vs Dudley's, and then Brock vs RVD is a damn good match, better than their KotR final for sure.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Crummy97 said:


> What's the best non-big 4 PPV from 02? I feel like watching some early Bork.


No Mercy. Brock vs. Taker Hell in a Cell & that Tag Title match. SHEW. Think there's a solid Cruiserweight Title match too, but I haven't seen the show in years.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I forgot that Benoit/Eddie vs Dudley Boyz was on Vengeance 02. We have a winner!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Unforgiven 2002 is dope.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Watch shield vs. Rhodes bros./BRYAN sd from October instead ,


Smackdown's best match last year. (Y)



Crummy97 said:


> What's the best non-big 4 PPV from 02? I feel like watching some early Bork.


Most are honestly three/four match shows & that is it.

Backlash: Tajiri vs Kidman ruled, Eddie vs RVD, Brock vs Jeff Hardy

JD: Eddie vs RVD, Brock/Heyman vs Hardys, Edge vs Angle, & Taker vs Hogan

Vengeance: Brock vs RVD & Taker vs Rock vs Angle _(tag titles may be solid too, but again, a blur)_

UF: 8 man tag, Eddie vs Edge in their best match, & Taker vs Brock in a hell of a match.

No Mercy: Jericho/Christian vs BookDust, Tajiri vs Noble was great, & obviously Taker vs Brock HIAC

Armageddon: four way opener, Eddie vs Benoit, Angle vs Show


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Royal Rumble 2007

Hardyz vs MNM - ***1/2
Test vs Lashley - *1/2
Kennedy vs Batista - **1/4
Cena vs Umaga - ***** (2nd favorite match of all time for me)
Royal Rumble match - ****3/4 (favorite Rumble of all time)

I fucking love this show.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Just watched the Owen/Shamrock Lions Den match from SS 1998. I had forgotten how incredible this match was, I hadn't seen it in ages. This is easily the MotN and one of my top 5 favorite Owen Hart matches. If you peeps haven't watched this in a while, I urge you to fix that.

Watching this also made me think the WWE absolutely needs to bring this gimmick back. And what better time OR place to bring it back than to have the main event of Night of Champions be Lesnar vs Cena in a Lions Den match. It makes all the sense in the world, and I can't think of 2 better guys to do it. WWE is really trying to spice things up for NoC to get people to renew their subscriptions, wouldn't this be like, a big fucking deal? I would have to think so. And the story line would be easy, Cena gets his rematch after losing the title to Lesnar at SS, and Heyman INSISTS that if Cena is gonna get his rematch, then his client Brock Lessssssnar should get to pick the stipulation. Being that Cena is the big Boy Scout that he is, he readily agrees, as long as he gets his shot at the title. That's when Heyman says "my client has chosen to return to his Ultimate Fighting roots in this match, he insists that if Cena wants to face him, it will be in...... A LIONS DEN MATCH!!!" And that's when Cole can chime in "oh my gosh! Folks we haven't seen a Lions Den match here in quite some time, for those of you who aren't familiar, you can log on to the WWE Network for the low low price of $9.99 and watch Owen Hart take on Ken Shamrock in a CLASSIC Lions Den match, at Summerslam 1998. For those of you who DONT know how to download the network....blah blah blah." This just makes too much sense, it will never happen.

Would anyone else be super pumped to see Lesnar face Cena or anyone in a return of the Lions Den gimmick?

I'm gonna go watch the Blackman/Shameock one and see if it's as good as the Owen/Shamrock one.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Ambrose just did a really darn good job of selling this Lumberjack match at Summerslam. (Y)


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Royal Rumble 2007 is probably the second best show of the franchise. Maybe #1. Maybe #3. But certainly something special. Was NYR 2007 good? What about NWO 07? NYR did have three matches I remember really liking. Cena/Umaga :lenny And NWO 07 main event kicks ass.

I'm surprised Mr. Cody liked Hogan/Taker. That makes three of us by my count.

Mike Knox vs. CM Punk on 11/14/06. Go check it out if you have nothing in mind and you want to witness great selling.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

NYR 2007 is a kick-ass show, specially with the cage match, RKO/DX and the main event. NWO 07 is shit, though. Only the opener and main event are any good.

And who are the three Hogan/Taker fans? If you haven't counted me yet, that'll make it four.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Yeah, NWO '07 is a two-match show for sure and I've never been as high as everyone else on that main event.

I'd probably have 2001 over 2007 as far as Rumble PPVs go... and that's probably it. I'd have to watch all of 2002 and 2005 again but they'd probably round out the top 4. I'm a big fan of 1995 too.

So Mark Henry & Big Show just teamed up on Smackdown and I had NO idea it was coming. Kind of excited.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Yeah, NWO '07 is a two-match show for sure and I've never been as high as everyone else on that main event.
> 
> I'd probably have 2001 over 2007 as far as Rumble PPVs go... and that's probably it. I'd have to watch all of 2002 and 2005 again but they'd probably round out the top 4. I'm a big fan of 1995 too.
> 
> So Mark Henry & Big Show just teamed up on Smackdown and I had NO idea it was coming. Kind of excited.


Black Show is back in business!!!! Hell yea. Anything resulting in Mark Henry being on my television screen more = a very, very good thing.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Black Show :mark:

I counted me, C2D, and Cody as fans of Hogan/Taker. I don't think I forgot anyone important. Did I?

Royal Rumble 2000 might be my choice for best Rumble. I even liked Jericho/Holly/Chyna.

:lmao John Cena and Sabu were in a tag team?

Rated RKO vs. DX saved Cyber Sunday 2006 from having a negative score on the Cal Scale. Very good match.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I remember nothing from the 2000 Rumble outside of HHH/Foley. 

I've seen DX/Rated RKO a couple times I think and it always bored me to tears. Hated the Bischoff involvement too. Been a while though.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

Rumble 2000 is my favorite Rumble match, plus 3 awesome undercard matches.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Rumble '00 is a two match show & Taz's debut. But all of those are super positive, so that's good. Tables match. Brilliant. Rumble match itself bores me except for the comedy spots. Taka splatting & Pete Gas knocking himself out by diving into the bottom rope, instead of diving under it.

Rumble '07 was one "if only Bobby Lashley didn't have a match" away from being a perfect event. Still, while that is crap, it doesn't hurt the show to any significant degree. Just watch the opener twice. Hardys w/another brilliant match at a Rumble. Interesting.

Rumble '01 I don't care for. Which is surprising b/c that is my favorite overall year for the company. Give me my perfect ladder match and the rest can fall. I'm probably underselling the tag titles, b/c it is bound to be fun. I just don't have any memory of it for some reason.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Cyber Sunday 2006 is a pretty poor show. Don't like anything on it other than Rated RKO vs DX which is not as good as their NYR rematch anyways.

And ff, you've made it past September in 2006, right? What did you think of this tag?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Carlito on the team w/Cena 8*D


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd say Fat Randy, cargo era Cena and 2006 Edge would do a fine job covering up for any of Carlito's flaws in a tag match.

Earlier today, I said I would try to find the time to rewatch Punk vs Jericho from Payback and that's what I just did. Kinda regret wasting 30 minutes on it because it's just what I remember... main event of DUD CITY. Punk is rusty and his stamina is off, Jericho is whatever and after the boring first half, they just stop giving a shit and start exchanging finishers. Confident that WM28 will hold up, though. I enjoyed that during the height of my Punk hate, no reason for it to change now.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You know I don't really remember having a thought towards that tag match. Cena did have a nice hot tag and I liked how douchy Rated RKO was. Not a fan of the divas work and Carlito is shit. There was a better multi-person tag match that is worth mentioning: Lashley/Cena/Batista vs. King Booker's Court (9/29). Might be Cena's best selling performance I've seen. Great job of the heel team on working on Cena's arm. I don't understand why Randy went to RAW though when Smackdown needed him. Smackdown after Benoit and Henry got injured was so desolate, and it only got worse as time went on. And something about Batista's comeback was so disappointing. I actually liked Batista's first WHC run. But when he came back, he wasn't as over as he was before and the Booker T feud was so bad.

I did just watch Benoit vs. Finlay on 11/24/06. Didn't notice how well Benoit sold that leg. And I got so hyped when Benoit nailed the diving headbutt. Awesome stuff. William Regal vs. Kendrick on that show was good too.

I don't know why you rewatched Punk/Jericho from Payback. There is no way that you would like it. Why aren't you watching Badd Blood?


----------



## Rugrat (Jun 30, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I'd say Fat Randy, cargo era Cena and 2006 Edge would do a fine job covering up for any of Carlito's flaws in a tag match.
> 
> Earlier today, I said I would try to find the time to rewatch Punk vs Jericho from Payback and that's what I just did. Kinda regret wasting 30 minutes on it because it's just what I remember... main event of DUD CITY. Punk is rusty and his stamina is off, Jericho is whatever and after the boring first half, they just stop giving a shit and start exchanging finishers. Confident that WM28 will hold up, though. I enjoyed that during the height of my Punk hate, no reason for it to change now.


I wouldn't rewatch the Mania 28 scrap, I'd give the Chicago Street Fight a month later another viewing. The Mania 28 match was very underwhelming IMO.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Punker vs Jericho from WM trumps the Street Fight by a great deal, for me. And I still really do enjoy the Street Fight.

Also, FF you watch Smackdown? Card it for me plz. b/c idk what to expect after every report being wrong apparently.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Dolph and Rollins had a match which led to Stone Cold telling Dolph to fix his clotheslines. Dean Ambrose somehow made the lumberjack match sound intriguing. If that doesn't convince people how good he is, then I don't know what will. 

Rybaxel wrestle the reformed Black Show. Mark Henry walks to the ring with his typical walk of pain, while Big Show smiles like a child in the background. Good stuff. 

I think I saw Sin Cara do an Angle Slam, so take that for what it's worth. 

Big E wasn't very good in his match against Rusev.

Ambrose vs. Orton was good, but it wasn't half an hour like some fool reported. Nice match in typical Ambrose fashion.

Smackdown is Ambrose. So take that for what it's worth.



Punk/Jericho from Extreme Rules is my pick for most fun match to watch. The evil Canadian invader fighting against the Chicago hero that is defending the honor of one Derrick Rose who got injured that same weekend. Beautiful story. Makes me wanna watch some Second City Saints fights. ACE STEEL.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Supposedly, Randy was moved to Raw after his suspension for a fresh start because his locker-room reputation was tarnished at the time. Heard that's the exact reason they moved him to Raw the year before in the first place. :lol

I remember the street fight with Punk and Jericho being okay but nothing special. WM match was excellent, though.

Badd Blood is next in line after I finished watching HBK climb the titantron to escape Taker an hour ago. DX has formed and Austin is now sticking it to the authority. Things are about to get exciting!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Skip RAWs after Bad Blood except for promos from people you like. RAW for the rest of 1997 was bad outside of Tajiri matches, but immediately once 1998 hits, there is a tangible change to the show. Make sure to watch every DX promo. Even the one where Shawn kisses HHH on the lips :lol


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I always skip matches/segments that don't interest me. But if the episodes are uninteresting, I might fast forward all the way to PPVs and cheat my way into early entry towards 1998. Montreal Screwjob is about to come up as well.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Y'all should watch Bad Blood 03, it may very well be the only good show from RAW that year.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm not a huge fan of the Punk/Jericho Street Fight. I don't know why, it just has never clicked with me the 3 times or so I've watched it. I wouldn't say its flat out bad, but yea, nothing really to excite me either. I do however love their WM 28 match, I think that's one of the 2-3 best WWE title matches in WM history. Sucks the crowd in Miami was so weak for it. Punker sold his back like a champ. Even so, I'll take the Punk/Henry match from the next night on Raw over that WM match. I've plugged that match enough, but damn, doesn't get too much better than that.

I've been watching a lot of the old In Your Houses lately, well, skipping around through the junk and watching the good stuff is a better way of putting it. Just finished the Owen Hart/Shawn Michaels Rage in the Cage match, which was every bit as good as I remember it. I still cannot fathom how Shawn Michaels was over with the male audience as a face back then. It simply doesn't make sense, with how Shawn acted, dressed, everything. I mean this isn't even older me talking. As a kid, I was Team Hitman all day and thought Michaels was a sissy. I mean how can a guy with a full blown mullet who comes out dressed like a flamboyant member of the Village People and acts like a petulant child most of the time become the top baby face? Doesn't make any sense on paper. Guess ring work really won out in his case, because once the bell sounded he was one of the best back then.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Oh god another match w/Michaels for me to claim as meh & never saw the appeal of. Owen did nothing for me too, btw.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Bad Blood 2003 might be the worst PPV of that year. Both Unforgiven and Armageddon are better/less bad.

Just finished Orton vs Cena from SummerSlam 2009 and to my surprise, the match is actually better than I remember. The action prior to the overbooking is actually rather good with a hot crowd. Then the overbooking comes in and ruins the match, specially when they rush through every piece of shenanigans one after another. Couldn't help but laugh @ Lilian botching the living hell out of the first announcement, though. Randy Orton wins after getting DQed and becomes new champion. Then Vince "reorders" the restart. :lol Match is still Orton's lowpoint in his SummerSlam resume but it's not as bad as before. At least for about 15 or so minutes, there's enjoyable uninterrupted action. Would go ★★½ at most, though.


----------



## LilOlMe (Apr 2, 2013)

Did you ever review One Night Only '97, C2D?


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Nope, I don't really do reviews nowadays. But I'll get to it along with Badd Blood soon.

Already seen Bret vs Undertaker from a year ago and I remember enjoying it although I found it a bit too long.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Oh god another match w/Michaels for me to claim as meh & never saw the appeal of. Owen did nothing for me too, btw.


REALLY? That's kinda shocking to me, I figured you'd definitely be a supporter of that match, being that I seem to recall you being high on Owen in general. If I was gonna rate it, I'd give it like ***3/4, so I really really liked it. I thought both Owen and Shawn were top notch. Everything flowed really well, no botches, most everything they did off the top of my head made sense...any particular reason you didn't like it or was it just one of those "meh, nothing to see here folks" type of matches for you?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Largely meh w/no strong essence behind it to hook me in. Wasn't "omg this is awful" or anything of the sort. More like bare bones underwhelming, "I really thought this should have been stronger as a whole" vibe. Quite forgettable.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Got through the first fourth minutes of the Heyman doc and quit. Pretty bad first thirty minutes with all the skipping around. Thought it would get better after the intro but naw. Deflating to say the least.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SummerSlam 2012 rewatch atm. For a match that most felt underwhelmed by - Punk vs Cena vs Show - the story behind it is pretty good, tbf. Punk's start of going heel on the mission for respect. Cena & Punker still having their never ending grudge. Show in the hunt b/c he went heel & stopped giving a fuck about people + IRON CLAD CONTRACT. Actually not looking like a jobber in the build even though he did vs Cena immediately after turning. Felt like a good Championship match to fall behind the first ever meeting for Brock vs Game. Well, that's cool. b/c as this was happening, I wasn't quite seeing what it was worth. Yet I was more excited for Dolph vs Jericho. Oh, silly me.

Now to see if the match holds up. Unfortunately, I recall a lame finish for this too. _(too in association w/Sheamus vs Del Rio which is good, but LOL at the finish. Hate that.)_


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> SummerSlam 2012 rewatch atm. For a match that most felt underwhelmed by - Punk vs Cena vs Show - the story behind it is pretty good, tbf. Punk's start of going heel on the mission for respect. Cena & Punker still having their never ending grudge. Show in the hunt b/c he went heel & stopped giving a fuck about people + IRON CLAD CONTRACT. Actually not looking like a jobber in the build even though he did vs Cena immediately after turning. Felt like a good Championship match to fall behind the first ever meeting for Brock vs Game. Well, that's cool. b/c as this was happening, I wasn't quite seeing what it was worth. Yet I was more excited for Dolph vs Jericho. Oh, silly me.
> 
> Now to see if the match holds up. Unfortunately, I recall a lame finish for this too. _(too in association w/Sheamus vs Del Rio which is good, but LOL at the finish. Hate that.)_


Show had been looking solid at the time. Only a couple months later he had that feud with Sheamus. Their match at HIAC owned and I liked the other two as well.

As a whole, I remember not liking much from Summerslam 2012. I really can't think of a match off it that I'd want to even re-watch.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Big Show is one of the few wrestlers who looked good with the spinner belt.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

This SummerSlam is def skippable. To their credit, both championship matches delivered the only thing good - this triple threat was actually really good - but as I feared, both had finishes that didn't need to be there. The World Championship one was worse, but the WWE Championship finish was honestly much more pointless. Why Show couldn't have survived the double submission, then took the FU, then have Punk sneak in for the win is beyond me. Minus the dense logic, t'was the easy MOTN. Show dominating was great & Punk/Cena were totally good in their roles during the match too. 

But lol at all the bad filler on the show too. Not only is it filler, but it is BAD filler. I never need to see Lilian & Justin fake dancing to support a Kevin Rudolph performance live. Jesus christ.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

I've realized that there's this weird pattern when it comes to my interest in Summerslam the last 5 years:

2009 - hyped. The only match i didn't care about was Kane/Khali.
2010 - didn't care. Was more interested in the mystery partner for Team WWE/Nexus then the match itself.
2011 - hyped. Didn't care about the divas match but even that wasn't bad.
2012 - didn't care. Every match was meh especially the main event.
2013 - hyped. I consider Punk/Lesnar & Bryan/Cena the best double main event ever.

and this year...

2014 - don't card. The only match i was looking forward to now has a ridiculous stipulation added to it.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

bme said:


> I've realized that there's this weird pattern when it comes to my interest in Summerslam the last 5 years:
> 
> 2009 - hyped. The only match i didn't care about was Kane/Khali.
> 2010 - didn't care. Was more interested in the mystery partner for Team WWE/Nexus then the match itself.
> ...


Was just thinking the same. I love SS '09, '11 and '13. 2010 is a one match show for me and 2012 was forgettable. I don't dislike the card this year, but I'm not positive it'll be a great show.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Forgot about Triple H milking it after his loss trying to get a standing O, but got more boos than anything :lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

NAITCH said:


> Watch shield vs. Rhodes bros./BRYAN sd from October instead ,


Is that 10/18?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

That's the one.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'll be watching SD in a few moments just for Ambrose's promo and MAYBE Black Show only. But I'm not too confident it'll be something that peaks my interest that much.

I believe someone said a few pages back they don't care for the RR '01. Believe it was Cody. Dat subtle 30-Man Rumble '01 match disliking 8*D. Bravo at the Rumble '07 love tho.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Ambrose & Rollins segment was quality. Black Show match was fun. Rollins vs Dolph had an actual set up backstage. _(they always interact w/those two before working. Noticed that. Shame I never care for the matches)_ Damien Sandow just came out as Border Patrol vs Sin Cara II and I legit laughed b/c haha, Mexicans booed.

So Smackdown is off to a good start.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

ATF said:


> That would be Punk, Bryan, Usos & Rhodes/Shield & Wyatts from Raw last year, I believe.


Just watched it. Excellent match imo, shame no one noticed the 'Hart Attack' though.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> That's the one.


Thanks.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Well, good stuff halted. Rollins vs Ziggler was so bad. Chinlocks & nearfalls. Boring. 

I feel like I've enjoyed so little of Dolph this year. Most of his matches are structured to be random fluff. This doesn't please me.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Probably a silly statement, but when the 'fake Sting' first turned up on Nitro, imo, he was a good lookalike.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

He was. Especially when they are face to face in the 96 War Games. Dude had more of a career as nWo Sting than he did as Cobra. Ha. Cobra. That was cut off immediately.

side-note: WCW actually put nWo Sting as his name on the nameplate when he worked. Always humored me.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I'd say Ziggler has had his share of good stuff this year. The match w/Miz after Battleground was fun, and both matches w/Barrett on Raw (ESPECIALLY the IC Title one) were (Y). Other than that, yeah this year's been a far cry from his golden 2013.

Hitman recognized it, and I will too - that batshit crazy 12-Man Tag from Raw Country last year is fucking awesome btw.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> He was. Especially when they are face to face in the 96 War Games. Dude had more of a career as nWo Sting than he did as Cobra. Ha. Cobra. That was cut off immediately.
> 
> side-note: WCW actually put nWo Sting as his name on the nameplate when he worked. Always humored me.


Phew, thought it was just me. If I was watching live at the time, when the 'fake Sting' attacked Luger and they made it look liked it was Sting, I would have believed it.

Not sure when DDP turned face, but im in Oct '96 and it's gotta be soon, the Diamond Cutter is so over lol.

I'm just on the verge of Halloween Havoc atm.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

I've decided to start watching everything from WWF/E in 02, and early 2002 was just weird. Maven and Rikishi getting Undisputed Title matches and shit like that. Felt like they were trying to blur the lines between the midcard and the main event.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

ATF said:


> I'd say Ziggler has had his share of good stuff this year. The match w/Miz after Battleground was fun, and both matches w/Barrett on Raw (ESPECIALLY the IC Title one) were (Y). Other than that, yeah this year's been a far cry from his golden 2013.
> 
> Hitman recognized it, and I will too - that batshit crazy 12-Man Tag from Raw Country last year is fucking awesome btw.


that IC title match. lolz. Dolph vs Miz got fun at the end, but largely it was a poor match until then.

Only Dolph matches to make my list:

Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs Dolph Ziggler, R-Truth, & Xavier Woods (5:01) - RAW *2/3*

Antonio Cesaro vs Dolph Ziggler (5:35) - SD *1/31*

Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns vs Dolph Ziggler & Kofi Kingston (7:33) - SD *2/7*

Christian vs Dolph Ziggler (5:55) - SD *3/7*

Wow. I literally haven't cared fora Dolph match since March. Dammit.




The Fab Four said:


> Phew, thought it was just me. If I was watching live at the time, when the 'fake Sting' attacked Luger and they made it look liked it was Sting, I would have believed it.
> 
> Not sure when DDP turned face, but im in Oct '96 and it's gotta be soon, the Diamond Cutter is so over lol.
> 
> I'm just on the verge of Halloween Havoc atm.


DDP still has a ways to go. Credit to WCW for not aborting their set plans for DDP to finish 96 before they eventually decided to turn him & move him up the card. DDP's career was booked pretty well up until he won the World Championship.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

There's nothing "lolz" about that IC Title match. Pure fast and paced, back and forth FUN. With a bangin' crowd. And a Barrett victory. Ain't nothing more satisfactory than that :barrett.

So yeah, anyway, Ambrose delievered a kick-ass promo on SD, as usual. Made me a little intrigued for the Lumberjack match. It may not look like it, but they actually have a lot of options for telling a good story even in those circumstances. I even made for myself a script of sorts of how that match would go down, and even under Lumberjack stipulation, if they use the right tools the match would rule.


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

If there's any 2 people that can pull off a lumberjack match, it's probably Rollins and Ambrose. HHH is probably going to make Kane a lumberjack or something to screw Ambrose over though.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Whoops. Forgot about this:

Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler (4:08) - Main Event *4/8*

Heck of a sprint between those two.


----------



## bme (Sep 23, 2005)

Brye said:


> Was just thinking the same. I love SS '09, '11 and '13. 2010 is a one match show for me and 2012 was forgettable. I don't dislike the card this year, but I'm not positive it'll be a great show.


I think were gonna get a repeat of SSlam 2012.



Hayley Seydoux said:


> Forgot about Triple H milking it after his loss trying to get a standing O, but got more boos than anything :lmao


Triple H's "badass babyface" act combined with his reputation for burying wrestlers (weather real or not) didn't make for a sympathetic babyface.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

WCW Halloween Havoc 1996:

*1. WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Dean Malenko vs. Rey Mysterio Jr. (c)*. ***1/2
*2. Battle for the Ring: Diamond Dallas Page vs. Eddie Guerrero.* ***1/2
*3. The Giant vs. Jeff Jarrett*. *
*4. Syxx vs. Chris Jericho.* ***
*5. Arn Anderson vs. Lex Luger.* **
*6. The Faces of Fear vs. Mongo McMichael & Chris Benoit.* ***1/4
*7. WCW World Tag Team Championship: The Outsiders vs. Harlem Heat (c).* **1/2
*8. WCW World Heavyweight Championship: Macho Man Randy Savage vs. Hollywood Hogan (c).* *

I do love me some Faces Of Fear, DAT top rope throw to Benoit. :mark: Some cracking pictures from the event: :lmao


































Oh and of course RODDY PIPER MADE HIS WCW DEBUT...........then the PPV ended whilst he was still cutting his promo. fpalm


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Good to see someone else like Punk/Show/Cena from SS 12. It's a very fun match, but it's a triple threat where overbooking was not needed, and the match should have gone on for double the time. Those three are just too perfect of a combination to have a triple threat, what with Big Show doing Big Show things and Punk and Cena both historically being great in triple threats. Loved Big Show bringing back the Final Cut for that match as well as a few others afterwards. Also loved Punk's everything, including that attempt of a GTS on Big Show.

Dolph/Barrett from RAW was glorious. Callback spots galore. Dolph does a better job than anyone today in making me care about who wins and who loses. Anyone else feel the same?

Early 2002 was a mess. Jericho being booked to look like shit against a Tough Enough rookie. Triple H with a failed babyface run. The Rock cutting bad promos. The simple solution would have been just letting Big Evil take hold of that Undisputed Title and crush everybody until Lesnar swallows him. Bah, at least we got our two month Taker reign, which happened to be the only good world title reign that year. HOGAN/TAKER!

That RAW 6 on 6 tag match last year was super fun. Shield/Wyatts infighting, six babyfaces that are really good, Hart Attack, and PUNK'S HOT TAG! Love that he brought back the neckbreaker/DDT combo during that run. See, Punk wasn't that bad in late 2013. But they screwed up by not making that match elimination style and the main event of Survivor Series.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Wait, did you imply that Lesnar's reign in 2002 was not good? Goddayum, even BROCK IN 2002 is getting dat hate in here.

Punk's hot tag in that 12-Man Tag was cool but a little bit sloppy imo though. But it was a hot tag indeed. Though I'd feel like Bryan would've made more out of it, but Punk worked anyway. That match was awesome. And while it was no 12-Man Tag, the two tags we actually got at SVS (Shield & Real Americans/Usos, Rhodes & REY and Team BITW/Wyatts) were both tremendous anyway.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Taker in 2002 was the shit, both in-ring and character wise.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

2002 BIG EVIL Undertaker is GOAT. So damn GOAT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> 2002 BIG EVIL Undertaker is GOAT. So damn GOAT.


Carried through his '03 SD draft.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

ATF said:


> Wait, did you imply that Lesnar's reign in 2002 was not good? Goddayum, even BROCK IN 2002 is getting dat hate in here.


It was barely a reign to begin with, especially for a new star. Undertaker did more memorable things in equal time as Brock did in that reign. I also didn't like the way they built up Taker/Brock to be honest. Especially the stuff involving "Tracy". They didn't need that extra nonsense, but WWE was riddled with that crap in 2002. Brock vs. Edge at Rebellion was not very good either. Like it wasn't necessarily a "bad" reign, just kinda disappointing for the new star. The 2003 reigns are where it's at.

EDIT: I looked at the show reviews for Smackdown in 2002. I think Matt Hardy interacted with Brock and Taker more than they did with each other :lol


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Watching Summerslam '06 and Mysterio just casually lost his mask to no reaction whatsoever. It's like no one in the crowd is watching and the commentators don't even think it's a big deal. What the hell? :lol


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

When I did my Brock project, it seemed like him and Big Show were joined at the hip lol.


----------



## Cleavage (Apr 19, 2005)

*SummerSlam 1999*

WWF Intercontinental & European Championships: Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown (w/Debra) **1/2 - **3/4
Tag Team Turmoil *** - ***1/4
WWF Hardcore Championship: Big Bossman vs. Al Snow **
WWF Women's Championship: Ivory vs. Tori DUD!
Lion's Den Weapons Match: Ken Shamrock vs. Steve Blackman (Not really a match, but fun times)
Love Her or Leave Her Match (Greenwich Street Fight) - Test vs. Shane McMahon *** - ***1/4
WWF Tag Team Championships: X-Pac & Kane vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show (w/Paul Bearer) ***1/2 - ***3/4 
Kiss My Ass Match: The Rock vs. Billy Gunn (w/Mystery Fat Ass Woman) **1/2 - **3/4
WWF Championship: Mankind vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H (w/Chyna) *** -***1/4




Spoiler: Long Ass review, but at least it has gifs



*








WWE SummerSlam*
August 22nd, 1999
Minneapolis, Minnesota​
*WWF Intercontinental & European Championships: Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown (w/Debra)*
Before the match, Jeff tells Debra to go to the back ‘cause he doesn’t want her puppies being a distraction. But as D-lo is making his way backstage he bumps into her, he grabs her by the hand and he says lets go to the ring. I should also point out Debra’s outfit is something else JESUS! This was damn fun, it’s most Jarrett bumping for D-Lo early, until Jarrett attempts to kill the match with his first offense move being a sleeper :lmao D-Lo easily counters out but D-Lo gets too cocky and heads to the top. He dives off but Jarrett catches him into a sideslam, Jarrett now begins to take over as he works on him on the floor but just like D-Lo he crashes and burns on the high risk move off the apron. D-Lo throws him in the crowd before telling the ref to back his monkey ass up. Jarrett counters out of a suplex attempt and throws D-Lo into the ringpost. They finally get back in the ring, and Jeff begins working the arm. D-Lo doesn’t sell it at all; instead it’s pretty much a fill for time as D-Lo hits a nice little running sit-down powerbomb. He hits a tilt-a-whirl sideslam and begins his comeback. Backsuplex follows as he heads up top but misses the front flip move and Debra gets on the apron to distract the ref. That allows Jeff to pick up the guitar, he acts like he wants to hit Debra but Mark comes down and takes it away from him. Mark backs up and nails D-Low with it allowing Jeff to cover him for the win. Post-Match: Debra, Jeff and Mark celebrate. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Double SWERVE in the opening match, classic Russo the match was damn good though. **1/2 - **3/4








*Tag Team Turmoil*
As I just mentioned, winners gets a shot at the tag titles the following night on Raw. Edge & Christian vs. Matt & Jeff start, it’s the usual tag goodness here Edge and Matt start with E&C getting the better, they begin to work on Matt but once Gangrel cheapshots Christian the New Brood begin to take over. Jeff hits the pretty looking springboard sitdown Moonsault and the crowd totally gives no shits about this, which is a shame. It’s so weird seeing the Hardy playing the heel role here. Especially when most of their offense is high risk. At one point Jeff hits the swanton for two, they try a double team move but Christian counters into a double inverted DDT and the crowd finally comes alive as Edge gets the hot tag. He cleans house until he gets thrown to the floor. Matt and Edge battle on one side and Christian and Jeff battle on the other, it leads to this AWESOME! Spot with Edge and Jeff both getting whipped but they jump on the barricades and collide in the middle of the ramp way with Edge spearing him in mid air :mark: Edge is all fired up so Gangrel attacks him from behind, that allows Christian to hit the springboard crossbody to the floor onto Gangrel. Matt heads up and Monnsaults them before throwing Christian back in. Matt tries to superplex him but Edge stops it and by hitting him with a sit-down faceplant move and Christian comes off the top with an elbow drop for the win. I don’t think I’ve ever seen they do that move again after this.

Out next is Mideon & Viscera, UGH! They go right at Christian beating him pillar to post and all that. Mideon looks like Road Dogg’s fatter older brother here wearing all this green and black. Edge gets the hot tag and takes out Mideon but Viscera hits the AWESOME! Spinning heel kick. E&C then begin to use their quickness to take out Viscera allowing Edge to spear Mideon for the win.

Droz and Prince Albert are your third team; they get the jump on Edge. Albert is fuckin’ great as he delivers big powermoves to Edge and his strikes are on point. Droz on the other hand is dressed like a man that goes to gay clubs, he misses a running charge sending himself to the floor and Christian hits a splacha on him. Albert has Edge pressed in the air but Christian chopblocks him for two. Edge is first to get to his feet and hits him with a faceplant move with Christian knocking Droz off the apron.

The Acolytes are the next team out, and I should point out the crowd is tonally behind E&C now without question, they see this underdog babyface team as their own. Well they did until the Acolytes came out and did nothing but beat the shit out of these young guys. Bradshaw and Edge starts, he dropkicks him before heading up for the 10 corner punch spot but on the count of 5 Bradshaw powerbombs him for two. Yeah! Crowd is dead for this; I think they all know who’s winning. Acolytes begin working on Edge now; it’s the normal Acolytes rough and tough heat nothing special. The only time the crowd makes any sort of noise is when Christian tries to get them back into the match while Edge plays the face in peril. Christian hot tag was fun, as E&C begin working together keeping one man in the ring and one on the floor. Suddenly, while the match is still going on FUCKIN’ the Holly Cousins jump the gun and run out before there's an elimination. They're forced to hang out by the ring until Bradshaw gives Christian a Clothesline from Hell. Big fuckin’ mistake imo, the crowd wanted to see the young guys win and even if E&C didn’t win the next night it still would have made them into something just for this night.

Holly Cousins as you tell out now, it’s sucked its slow plodding and seeing how both teams are heels no fucks are given. Crash gets the shit beaten out of him. I honestly don’t care for this thankfully the match ends when the Holly Cousins fight with one another until Bob walks into a Spinebuster for the win. FUCK THAT! They had a chance to create a new legit team but blew it on some Has Been. *** - ***1/4








Road Dogg who is dressed all in white comes out to the ring and gets on the mic, Dogg has one of those Fannie packs on :lmao He challenges the winner of the Hardcore match on Raw tomorrow night. Suddenly, Chris Jericho’s music hits and he comes out to a great little pop, Jericho is standing on top of the Lion’s Den near the stage. He says seeing how this is his first appearance and he’s disappointed, that the WWF could ruin this. It’s not Summerslam its Summershame. He says the people got scammed and looks like fools. He makes fun of Road Dogg for having bad hair, the way he spells his name and stupid clothes. Jericho makes fun of DX saying they all suck, Dogg tells him to shut up bitch, and he then says he's afraid to say it because Jericho might take him up on it, but suck it.

Road Dogg comes on commentary, and Dogg says he doesn't own a computer, so Y2J and Y2K so it doesn’t mean a damn thing to him.

*WWF Hardcore Championship: Big Bossman vs. Al Snow*
During Al’s entrance he climbs the side of the stage and waits for Bossman to come out, when he does he hits him with a crossbody AWESOME! Dogg then takes a live mic and does commentary watching the action up close :lmao They go backstage brawling in the parking lot as Bossman hits him with the dog case that “has” pepper in it :lmao he then throws it to the ground, Al hits him with a blackboard. Bossman picks up a crutch from a guy with a broken leg and hits Snow with it, the then tries to throw a keg but that misses and that smash a glass fridge. They begin to brawl on the street, across the road to a bar :lmao they start hitting one another with plastic table and chairs before going inside the bar. Al has a comeback as some of the fan no sell the shit out of it and continue to just drink :lmao they fight into the bathroom with Al putting those urine cakes into Bossman’s eyes, Bossman drags him back out and hits him in the head with a beer bottle but Al comes back and takes a biker’s chain and chokes him with it. He places him ontop of a table and leaps off another par with a moonsault. They brawl into a pool section with Bossman taking a shot at Dogg but Dogg comes back hitting him with a nightstick, he falls onto the pool table and Al hits him with the pool balls to the balls for the win. Post-Match: Al runs back to the arena to kind Pepper but the BWO jump him; Al gets the better with a crutch before leaving. This wasn’t good but fun.








*WWF Women's Championship: Ivory vs. Tori*
I didn’t watch, instead I was busy looking at others things. TRUE STORY!

*Lion's Den Weapons Match: Ken Shamrock vs. Steve Blackman*
If you don’t know what a Lion’s den match is, it’s pretty much an UFC octagon with a weapon hanging over each side of the cage mesh. Before the match Blackman steals some nun chucks and hides it in his pants according to Lawler and King, Shamrock isn’t aware of this until the bell rings and Blackman pulls them out and begins to beat him with it. Shamrock quickly counters with a leg lock as both men fight over the nun chucks but Blackman begins choking him with them but Shamrock counters into a cross armbreaker. He breaks the hold and begins throwing Blackman into the cage, before killing him with strikes. Shamrock takes down a cane but Blackman counters and he begins to beat on Ken throwing him back first into the cage mesh, Blackman then heads up and takes down two mini-sticks. He begins to hits Shamrock from all different angles with them before choking Ken with them, pretty cool spot with Ken running up the cage and hitting a flying forearm before going to work on Blackman’s injured kidneys. Blackman hits a desperation DDT but Ken comes back kicking at the knees, and hitting a powerslam. Blackman hits a setup kick and takes down a kendo stick; he begins to beat Ken with it including a swing to the throat. Another real sequences that lead to a Belly-to-belly by Ken and he begins beating the shit out of Blackman with the Kendo Stick, Ken hits him with a headshot and the ref counts to 10 giving Shamrock the win. Solid little match, I wouldn’t mind seeing WWE bring this back one more time.

*Love Her or Leave Her Match (Greenwich Street Fight) - Test vs. Shane McMahon*
Shane gets right up in Test face talking shit, but the Posses music hits and they come out all banged up, Abs has a walking boot, Gas has a neck brace and the Rodney one has a arm in a sling :lmao Test jumps him from behind but then they do get back in the ring Test uses his power and wrestling experience to beat on Shane for a bit. Shane’s bumping is incredible, for a non-wrestler. At one point Shane gets powerslammed onto the floor on the outside, they brawl to where the Posse is and Test takes a few shots at them before picking Shane up and he throws him onto them. Test then begins to beat them up, but the numbers game catches up to him and the posses beat on him before feeding him back to young Shane. This is pretty hilarious with the Posse handing Shane weapons and Shane uses them on him. It even included a framed photo of the Posses and Shane that Shane smashes over his head :mark: Shane tries a fuckin’ corkscrew moonsault but misses, WHAT? Test catches Shane in a leapfrop position and powerbombs him down but Rodney distracts the ref long enough for Shane to kick out. Test accidentally kicks the ref knocking him out, before clotheslining Shane to the floor. The posses has seen enough and finally come in to save Shane, the beat on Test and place him on the announce table which allows Young Shane to jump off the turnbuckles crashing through Test and the table :mark: The Posse roll Shane and Test in the ring, with Shane covering Test for two. This is pretty much all the Posse helping Shane behind the refs back even though its NoDq, until the Stooges have seen enough and beat up the Posse :lmao Test kicks a chair into Abs face before hitting the Pump handle slam on Shane, but he’s not done he heads up top and finishes Shane off with an elbow drop off the top for the win. Post-Match: A young adorable Steph comes running out and hugs Test. This is terrible; Hunter needs to ruin this ASAP. As for the match is was so much fun seeing the Posse and Shane beat on Test and it’s the only way to make Shane look like a threat. Good Stuff. *** - ***1/4








*WWF Tag Team Championships: X-Pac & Kane vs. The Undertaker & The Big Show (w/Paul Bearer)*
All 4 men brawl right away with Taker taking out Pac leading to a 2-1 on Kane, but Kane comes back taking Show out of the match and Pac hits a flying clothesline off the top on Taker for two. Taker/Pac interaction is cool with Pac using his quickness to stay out of the reach of Taker before tagging Kane in. A few minutes later Pac begins to fire up on Taker and tells him to suck it so Taker simple knocks the shit out of him with an elbow :lmao he then tries to chokeslam Pac on the floor but Kane grabs Pac in the air and brings in back in. Kane sends Taker back in and hits the flying clothesline off the top for two, Show tries to interfere but eats an uppercut but that enough for Taker to hit the flying DDT before tagging Kane in, who begins to beat on Kane. This Kane/Show interaction is the best they’ve ever done; they kept it short and pretty much punched away at one another until one would hit a desperation big move. Taker/Show’s heat on Kane was fun, but its weird seeing Pac getting the hit tag. I mean it ruled cause’s its 90’s Pac but it’s usually Kane role. LOL @ Show pulling his hair leading to Taker throwing Pac to the floor allowing Show to have his way with him, Pac playing the face in peril was great hit take some many killa bumps and his mini-fiery comebacks ruled. I’m guessing ‘cause it’s because Pac in from Minnie X-Pac heat doesn’t not even exist or is even a thought here. At one point Show mocks Kane and goes to chokeslam Pac but Kane uppercuts him leading to Pac low blowing both Show and Taker before Kane gets the hot tag, Pac sends Taker to the floor with a spinning kicks before sending him into the post. Pac the tags himself in and delivers the bronco buster to Show as Taker and Kane brawl on the floor. Show then gets up and chokeslams Pac but only puts his foot on his chest for the cover. Pac kicks out and TAKER IS PISSED! So he blind tags in and kills Pac with the tombstone for the win. This is so much fun, its tag formula 101 it kinda reminds me of the Un-American’s/BookerDust match from SSlam ’02. ***1/2 - ***3/4 (I might be rating this a bit high but fuck it lo enjoyed it that much)








*Kiss My Ass Match: The Rock vs. Billy Gunn (w/Mystery Fat Ass Woman)*
The original idea is that the loser of the match would have to kiss the ass of the winner. Yet, with Gunn's introduction of his fat lady friend, he changed his stipulation so that if he beat Rock, Rocky will have to kiss her ass. Good ‘Ol Russo. Gunn jumps Rock to start and does a solid job beating on the Rock but once the Rock takes over it so much fun, with Rock’s electricity and Gunn’s bumping was great. Rock beats him up all the way up the entrance and near the fans but Gunn counters a whip sending him into a steel railing and follows up with a clothesline to the floor. Both men go back and forth now and I’m sure this should have been a double count out by now 8D oh well the eventually bring it back to ringside with Gunn sending him into the steel steps and begins to work over him. At one point I actually heard the ref count to 5 when Gunn was choking him but again nothing, this ref clearly has it in for the rock. Gunn continues with his mediocre offense with is only acceptable and watchable because Rock bumps to make it look good. I do find it hilarious that Lawler and JR have talked more about this fat ass woman instead of the match, anyway Rock’s comeback was a ton of fun and as much as I shit on Gunn this has been again a lot of fun, it’s not mind blowing but it’s solid and enjoyable. At one point Gunn hit the fame asser but instead of going for the pin he tells the fat ass woman to get in the ring, well as expected that backfires and Rock sends Gunns face into her ass. He then follows up with the Rock Bottom and the people’s elbow for the win. Solid due to bumping, at least Gunn’s KOTR push ended with his face up a fat chick’s ass. **3/4

*WWF Championship: Mankind vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs. Triple H (w/Chyna)*
Jesse Ventura is your special guest referee, you know what I find hilarious is the video package. So it was suppose to be HHH/Austin right, well Austin didn’t want to drop the belt that son of a bitch. So we have Mankind in here for fun, Triple H has that stupid fucking chain mail chest cover thing here. Man whoever allowed him to come out with that needs to get fined. Austin and Hunter go right at with Mankind pulling Hunter to the floor to get him some. Right off the bat Austin and Mankind double team on poor Hunter, beating him up for a few minutes until Mankind makes the mistake of hugging Austin so Austin punches him in the face :lmao it’s all Austin here as they brawl on the floor for several minutes, until Chyna throws Mankind into the ringpost behind Jessie’s back. Suddenly the camera cuts to Austin/Hunter brawling, we then turn back to Jessie getting in-between Mankind and Chyna, and because he’s distracted Hunter hits Austin with a chair in his injured knee taking him out of the match for the time being. That leaves Hunter and Mankind to battle for a bit. Mankind locks in the mandible claw on Hunter but as he backs up Chyna takes out Mankind’s legs and pulls him groin first into the ring post. Jessie sees this in ejects her from ringside. Austin sees this and gets his 2nd wind; he beats Hunter up all the way up the entrance way and back down to the ring. But when they get back in the ring, Austin’s knee buckles allowing Hunter to work over them. OH SHIT! Hunter and Mankind double teaming Austin, WHAT? They work over Austin for a bit before Mankind tries to steal a pin but that doesn’t sit well with Hunter so that ends that team work. They brawl on the floor as Mankind tries a cannon ball to the floor but Hunter moves and takes himself out. Minutes later they all brawl into the crowd with Foley getting back dropped on the concrete JESUS! You can clearly see Mankind is the middle man here :lmao it’s like Austin/Hunter do most of the interacting and Mankind gets his ass beat or gets killed before Hunter and Austin lock up again, Mankind reminds me of one of those girlfriends that gets the shit kicked out of them but keeps coming back, but to make this hilarious is that they are two BF’s. Austin his Mankind with a stunner, but Hunter breaks the pin up with a chair shot to the back and Jessie says to him “WHAT’S THIS BULLSHIT” :lmao Hunter then sees Mankind coming and smacks him in the head with a chair but Jessie refuses to count :lmao wat Shane comes out and gets in Jessie’s face which allowing Shane to deliver the stunner to him, Jessie then picks Shane up and throws him out of the ring. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Austin getting hung up in the ropes. Hunter saves him but both men get whipped out with a double clothesline. That leaves Mankind in the ring and he delivers a double mandible claw but gets low blowed to break the hold. You can tell Jessie has been out of wrestling for a long time and that triple threats are new to him. As a result, he's threatening to DQ wrestlers and even counting when two men are down on the mat. Austin connects with a stunner to Hunter but gets broken up by Mankind, Austin throws him into the ringpost and Hunter connects with a pedigree to Austin, but as he gets up Mankind shoves him away and he hits the double arm DDT for the win. Post-Match: Triple H attacked Austin, blasting him in the knee repeatedly with a chair while Chyna prevented anyone from helping Stone Cold. This was fun, it’s an Austin style match tons of brawling and two man in one man out and I do love Foley in triple threats as he was always willing to team up with everyone. *** -***1/4


----------



## OML (Feb 14, 2009)

anyone have their top 25 all time summerslam matches? I wanted to watch someones list on the network but the wwe.com one isnt that great


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

OML said:


> anyone have their top 25 all time summerslam matches? I wanted to watch someones list on the network but the wwe.com one isnt that great


Not a top 25 but I rate all these ****+

Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect (1991)
Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith (1992)
Ladder Match: Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon (1995)
Greenwich Street Fight: Test vs. Shane McMahon (1999)
TLC Match (2000)
Austin vs. Angle (2001)
Non-Sanctioned: HHH vs. HBK (2002)
Brock vs. Rock (2002)
Angle vs. Lesnar (2003)
Orton vs. Benoit (2004)
Taker vs. Orton (2005)
TLC Match: Punk vs. Jeff Hardy (2009)
Cena vs. Punk (2011)
Brock vs. Punk (2013)
Cena vs. Bryan (2013)

EDIT: Jesus how did I forget the Bret vs. Owen Cage match from '94!? Probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite Summerslam match ever.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

OML said:


> anyone have their top 25 all time summerslam matches? I wanted to watch someones list on the network but the wwe.com one isnt that great


Mine:

1 - Steve Austin vs. Kurt Angle, 2001 (*****)
2 - Mr. Perfect vs. Bret Hart, 1991 (****3/4)
3 - CM Punk vs. Brock Lesnar, 2013 (****3/4)
4 - John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan, 2013 (****1/2)
5 - Bret Hart vs. The British Bulldog, 1992 (****1/2)
6 - Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar, 2003 (****1/2)
7 - TLC, 2000 (****1/2)
8 - The Rock vs. Brock Lesnar, 2002 (****1/2)
9 - The Undertaker vs. Bret Hart, 1997 (****1/4)
10 - The Hart Brothers vs. The Brainbusters, 1989 (****1/4)
11 - The Undertaker vs. Edge, 2008 (****1/4)
12 - Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley, 2006 (****1/4)
13 - Shawn Michaels vs. Vader, 1996 (****1/4)
14 - Chris Benoit vs. Randy Orton, 2004 (****1/4)
15 - The Undertaker vs. Randy Orton, 2005 (****)
16 - Eddie Guerrero vs. Chris Benoit vs. Tajiri vs. Rhyno, 2003 (****)
17 - Hunter Hearst Helmsley vs. Mankind, 1997 (****)
18 - CM Punk vs. John Cena, 2011 (****)
19 - The Un-Americans vs. BookDust, 2002 (****)
20 - Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, 1995 (****)
21 - Randy Savage vs. The Ultimate Warrior, 1992 (****)
22 - Daniel Bryan vs. Wade Barrett, 2011 (****)
23 - CM Punk vs. Jeff Hardy, 2009 (***3/4)
24 - Kurt Angle vs. Rey Mysterio, 2002 (***3/4)
25 - Owen Hart vs. Steve Austin, 1997 (***3/4)


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

I'd also recommend Christian vs Orton from 2011 and Benoit vs RVD from 2002.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Taker in 2002 was the shit, both in-ring and character wise.


For a second, I read that as "Taker in 2002 was shit" and was gonna snap. :lol



Jack Evans 187 said:


> Watching Summerslam '06 and Mysterio just casually lost his mask to no reaction whatsoever. It's like no one in the crowd is watching and the commentators don't even think it's a big deal. What the hell? :lol


When did that happen? I don't remember anything of this sort for whatever reason. :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I do remember, it was in the match against Chavo. His mask just randomly fell, he took a little break to the outside to put it back on... and no one else gave a shit really.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Exactly. Chavo grabs his head to punch him and pulls his mask right off. Cole is just like "and Mysterio has momentarily lost his mask here... blah blah blah"

Oh and J.R. has botched twice on commentaty tonight. He just said Cena is looking to regain the Championship and beat the living hell out of John Cena for going into his father's home. :lol

Earlier in the night, he said he was there when Ric Flair faced The Rock in 1999 for his I Quit match. An off night for many people it seems.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

*Summerslam 2006

*Rey Mysterio vs. Chavo Guerrero - ** 1/2

*ECW Championship - Extreme Rules*
Big Show (c) vs. Sabu - **

Randy Orton vs. Hulk Hogan - * 3/4

*I Quit Match
*Ric Flair vs. Mick Foley - *** 1/2

*World Heavyweight Championship
*King Booker (c) vs. Batista - DUD

DX vs. The McMahons - *** 1/4

*WWE Championship
*Edge (c) vs. John Cena - *** 1/2


- Mysterio vs. Chavo had the foundations of a good match with a good backstory, but Vickie's involvement in the end really put a damper on things. I really didn't care what was happening by the end, but overall a solid opener.

- Big Show vs. Sabu was a trainwreck in the last 2 or 3 minutes, but I'll be damned if it's not fun to watch. :lol Sabu is the mayor of Botch City. It's pretty crazy to look back at the shape that Big Show was in then compared to now. Guy has lost 60-70 pounds over the years going into his 40s. (Y)

- Fun fact: I was in attendance at the go-home RAW to this ppv in Charlottesville, VA, so the build to Hogan/Orton holds a special place in my heart. Orton brought out an impostor Hogan, thinking the real one wasn't there. Fooled us all until the real one showed up.  Unfortunately, I've never been a fan of the match. It's just so basic and forgettable outside of the false finish.

- Flair vs. Foley is about 8-10 minutes of crazy awesome shit, but then those multiple finishes really take the wind out of it. No reaction from the crowd at all when Foley actually quits. Cool little match with Flair taking ridiculous amounts of punishment, but I think a lot of you overrate the hell out of it. 

- Batista vs. Booker blows.

- DX vs. The McMahons was so much fun, just as I remembered. Vince & Shane channeling those old school tag team finishers was awesome and the look on Vince's face when his son gets hit with Sweet Chin Music is hilarious. Nothing wrong with this.

- Honestly surprised by how much I liked Edge/Cena. Edge trying to win by countout was a good touch and the stipulation that he'd lose the belt by DQ made him and Lita think outside the box. I absolutely LOVE the finish. Like seriously, big kudos to them for pulling that off. Cena doesn't win like everyone expects him to and Edge figures out another way to cheat and keep the title. Lita staring down at her own tits time and time again throughout the match to make sure they're not falling out is just an added bonus. :yum:

- The show felt rushed to me. They had another 15-20 minutes they could've used and skipped over a bunch of buildup videos. Not one of my favorite Summerslams but a decent one with a few good matches. Next up: 2005. :mark:​


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Guys I need your help. Do any of you have a video of the Benoit/Regal match that apparently happened on Velocity on May 13 2006? Is this even a real thing?


----------



## Crummy97 (Aug 5, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Guys I need your help. Do any of you have a video of the Benoit/Regal match that apparently happened on Velocity on May 13 2006? Is this even a real thing?


Not sure how to embed YouTube videos, but here you go:

http://youtu.be/K_qE21nmfCA

EDIT: This isn't from the same date you said, but this is their famous Velocity match.


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

That is 05


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yup 05/13/2006 is the date. I'd help, but I can't upload until a couple of weeks.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Guys I need your help. Do any of you have a video of the Benoit/Regal match that apparently happened on Velocity on May 13 2006? Is this even a real thing?


Yes it's real, and yes it's awesome. Benoit and Regal had 3 matches on Velocity actually, 2 in 2005 and 1 in 2006. I have them on the Benoit/Blue Bloods comp Zeppers sent me. I think the 2006 one might actually be my favorite of the bunch, but all of them are fabulous ****+ matches. Regal does this gnarly spot where he lays Benoit in the ring with his head next to the post, the rolls outside and does a running kick into Benoits head, knocking it right into the post. It's spots like those that make you wince when you realize what would happen to Benoit just a year later, but man is it brutal.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

http://bitsnoop.com/wwe-velocity-13-may-06-q13993319.html 

Download but it's only 100 mb.

Edit: Never mind doesn't work, no seeders.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

#ROOT said:


> 2002 BIG EVIL Undertaker is GOAT. So damn GOAT.


This is where the power lies.


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

*Over the Limit 2012*

*Kane vs Ryder- ****

This was surprisingly good, Ryder really worked his ass off here to make this match good, he sold very nice Kane's offense. The ending sequence was also good, so this one was a nice surprise. #WeWantRyder!

*IC #1 Battle Royal- **3/4*

Not a really big fan of the Battle Royal matches, but this one was fine. Tyson Kidd was the star here, I've really liked the way he tried to avoid the elimination (not so much luck). Christian won in the end, which was a good decision, seeing that he and Cody had a very good match later on the PPV.

*Kofi Kingston&R-Truth vs Dolph Ziggler&Jack Swagger(Tag Team Titles Match)- ***1/2*

THIS WAS AWESOME. Great tag match here, with Ziggler and Kofi doing their magic together, while Swagger tried to help, and Truth was left aside. Seriously, he was the death part here. Dolph and Swagger used to be a great tag team, that finishing move that they had looked pretty great here. Anyway, great match, great start of the show.

*Layla vs Beth Phoenix (Divas Championship Match)- **1/4*

This was not a classic, but it was a decent match for the female division. The crowd was really dead here, and that kinda hurt the match quality. Layla sold Beth's offense nice and Beth, was well.. Beth, she still could pull off some pretty good bouts. Like I said nothing to remember, but a nice piss break.

_*Sheamus vs Randy Orton vs Chris Jericho vs Alberto del Rio (World Heavyweight Championship Match)- ****1/4
*_

This is one of the hidden gems of 2012, a really underrated match. The last 5 or 6 minutes here were insane, with bodies flying all over the place . Jericho was all fired up by the end, locking twice in the Walls, and also hitting the Codebreaker on Sheamus. Poor Sheamus . Skipping that, the ending sequence was really awesome, executed perfectly by everyone involved. This is I believe one of my favourite Fatal Four Way Matches that are out there, definetely a must-see.

*Brodus Clay vs The Miz- DUD*

No comments here. Brodus Clay squash.

*Cody Rhodes vs Christian (Intercontinental Championship)- ***1/4*

Well this one was a good one. Cody carried this match for me, he really put up a very nice performance. The match was nothing to remember really, but it was a fun bout, that added quality to the already good show. The story told here was pretty solid, and the finnish was also well executed.

_*CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan (WWE Championship Match)- ****3/4*_

Well this was AWESOME. This match certainly lived up to the hype, both Punk and Bryan delivered a helluva match here. Punk showed that he can go down to the mat with Bryan if he really wanted and he worked Bryan's leg excellent in the beginning. I cannot say who was the star here, both guys were awesome, like I said, Bryan delivered, Punk delivered and the two of them offered us the MOTY of 2012 (at least in my opinion).

_*John Cena vs John Laurinatis- ***_

Well this was interesting, and a hard one to grade. The truth is that I had fun with this match, but still the lack of wrestling unnerved me. Add to that the finnish that was never in doubt, and so the match was not that good, but still it was what it was supposed to be and that's fine.

*Final Conclusions:* So I remembered today that I really disliked this show on my last rewatch and I've decided to give it another try. The result surprised me, seeing that I enjoyed Over the Limit 2012 (quite a lot). Check out the Fatal Four Way if you hadn't already


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Love, love, love, love, love Punk vs. D-Bry.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Two snowflakes is three too many for :cena5 and Johnny Ace. Just embarrassing. I do agree that PPV was ok thought. Obviously unk2 v :bryan2 was incredible as were the WHC match and the IC title match. That main event though? fpalm 

Ok guys....is the :heyman set worth my $20?


----------



## Srdjan99 (Apr 30, 2012)

MachoMadness1988 said:


> Ok guys....is the :heyman set worth my $20?


It's worth more than that . One of the best DVD's WWE has ever produced


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Cleavage said:


> *SummerSlam 1999*
> 
> WWF Intercontinental & European Championships: Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown (w/Debra) **1/2 - **3/4
> Tag Team Turmoil *** - ***1/4
> ...


Great review. This PPV is a guilty pleasure of mine. 

Good lord, Foley. How are you not dead?!!


----------



## SonoShion (Feb 14, 2012)

Must-watch matches 2007-2010 outside of Mania anyone, please? I've seen ZERO that time around and haven't felt like catching up until now.


----------



## Ruiner87 (Sep 8, 2008)

The entire Mysterio/Jericho series from 2009. Just incredible. Same goes for all of the CM Punk/Jeff Hardy stuff. Anything related to Smackdown! in 2009 is just awesome.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Finished Badd Blood (sort of) and the HIAC match is incredible as expected. Five star without a doubt. Although I think I'd put Austin vs Bret over it for MOTY. One can go either way and wont be wrong, though.

Also working my way through Orton's SummerSlam matches. Got 04-06 left to go then I'll rate them all.



SonoShion said:


> Must-watch matches 2007-2010 outside of Mania anyone, please? I've seen ZERO that time around and haven't felt like catching up until now.


2007:

John Cena vs Umaga (New Years Revolution & Royal Rumble)
Rated RKO vs DX (NYR)
Chris Benoit vs Chavo Guerrero (Smackdown)
John Cena & Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker & Batista (No Way Out)
Finlay vs Undertaker (Smackdown)
John Cena vs Shawn Michaels (Raw)
Cena vs HBK vs Edge vs Orton (Backlash)
Edge vs Randy Orton (Raw)
Batista vs Undertaker (Backlash, Smackdown steel cage, Cyber Sunday)
Randy Orton vs RVD (Raw)
Edge vs Chris Benoit (Smackdown)
Edge vs Batista (Vengeance)
John Cena vs Bobby Lashley (Great American Bash)
John Cena vs Randy Orton (SummerSlam)
Randy Orton vs Triple H (No Mercy)
Randy Orton vs Shawn Michaels (Cyber Sunday & Survivor Series)
Edge vs Batista vs Undertaker (Armageddon)

2008: (haven't seen much myself)
Randy Orton vs Jeff Hardy (Royal Rumble)
Edge vs Rey Mysterio (No Way Out)
Orton vs Cena (No Way Out)
Elimination Chamber 2x (No Way Out)
Chris Jericho vs Shawn Michaels (all PPV matches plus LMS on Raw)
Cena vs JBL (Great American Bash)
Cena vs Batista (SummerSlam)
Edge vs Undertaker (SummerSlam)
Cena vs Chris Jericho (Survivor Series)

2009: (seen even less of this year)
Elimination Chamber 2x
Orton vs Shane-O-Mac (No Way Out)
Jeff Hardy vs CM Punk (Steel Cage)
Mysterio vs Jericho (Extreme Rules & The Bash)
Randy Orton vs Cena (Breaking Point & Bragging Rights)
DX vs Jeri-Show vs Cena & Undertaker (Raw in MSG)

2010 is mostly a blur to me so I'll just stop here.


----------



## Joshi Judas (Jul 12, 2013)

Mysterio vs Morrison IC title match Smackdown 2009
CM Punk vs Jeff Hardy the entire rivalry, 2009
Daniel Bryan vs Dolph Ziggler Bragging Rights 2010
Mysterio vs Jericho series from 2009

Think there are some Christian gems from ECW during that time someone can point you towards as well.

Some Matt Hardy stuff during this time is great as well though I'm too wasted to recall properly atm


----------



## Bruno mat (Aug 9, 2014)

stone cold vs triple h no mercy:****3/4 great brawl,stone cold show us again is the greatest brawler all of time
stone cold vs triple h suvivor series****3/4 fucking great crazy match,the end was just amazing and the storyline was great.triple h don't work very well but stone cold saved the match
stone cold vs triple h no way out***** the man who not see this match just as to stop watching wrestling i mean it'es a ********** match is was pure amazing,after seeing this match noobady can't say he's the greatest wrestler in the world,triple h did a good job but stone cold just show ous how perfect he is.

This rivalry was in my opinion the 4 best feud all of time,the story line was awesome and the match was just great,triple h played the vicious guy and stone cold the perfect wrestler,this was on the best feud all of time,need to watch like all stone cold feud


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

> We've heard from several fans who have had trouble purchasing WWE's new "Ladies & Gentlemen, My Name Is Paul Heyman" DVD and Blu-ray because it's been sold out. Fans in several different countries have reported the same problems. WWE's DVD distributor in Australia was sold out at one point and the UK distributor is sold out but they are taking pre-orders.
> Earlier this week the DVD was backed-ordered on Amazon and wasn't going to be shipped for up to 2 weeks but it's now in stock and shipping. The Blu-ray is currently back-ordered and was #1 on Amazon's best-selling Blu-ray list.
> 
> A number of major retailers in Heyman's home state of New York saw the DVD and Blu-ray sell out within two days.
> ...


:heyman

Edit: I just saw the Heyman doc. Its freaking amazing :bow


----------



## JoseDRiveraTCR7 (Dec 14, 2010)

I saw the Heyman doc online this morning. It was awesome.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

"Ladies and Gentleman, my name is Paul. Heyman. I'm a Jew from the Bronx without a single athletic bone in my body, yet right now I have the #1 selling DVD in the history of wrestling."

Gotta love Paul. I hope when WWE sees these outrageous sales figures, they realize they absolutely, 100% need to keep him around for the foreseeable future. That 10 minute promo he cut recently to close Raw was the best "Main Event" on WWE television this year. I'm serious. Paul Heyman talking > any thrown together, meaningless main event.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

No main event this year touches Daniel Bryan fending off the Wyatts.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

JoseDRiveraTCR7 said:


> I saw the Heyman doc online this morning. It was awesome.


I posted last night about how I couldn't get through it. I think I was watching the extras by accident. I hope so at least. Going in search of it later.


----------



## Mike Smalling (Sep 30, 2005)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> "Ladies and Gentleman, my name is Paul. Heyman. I'm a Jew from the Bronx without a single athletic bone in my body, yet right now I have the #1 selling DVD in the history of wrestling."
> 
> Gotta love Paul. I hope when WWE sees these outrageous sales figures, they realize they absolutely, 100% need to keep him around for the foreseeable future. That 10 minute promo he cut recently to close Raw was the best "Main Event" on WWE television this year. I'm serious. Paul Heyman talking > any thrown together, meaningless main event.


Heyman is a skilled orator, no question about that. The term "mic skills" would be insulting to a man of his caliber.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

I too have watched the Heyman documentary and it's amazing (Y) It really shows you how much of a great talent he is and how important he is to pro wrestling. It's a must watch.


----------



## SaviorBeeRad™ (Nov 29, 2008)

Anybody got some good stuff to watch from Main Event/SD from the last 3-4 months? Really haven't watched much


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Anybody got some good stuff to watch from Main Event/SD from the last 3-4 months? Really haven't watched much


Taken from my list of anything I thought was fun/good etc:



Spoiler: Main Event



8) The Shield vs Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan (17:27) - 4/8
9) Jack Swagger vs Dolph Ziggler (4:08) - 4/8
10) Sheamus vs Titus O'Neil (6:14) - 4/22
11) Paige vs Alicia Fox (3:33) - 4/29
12) Bray Wyatt vs Sheamus (12:07) - 4/29
13) Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Goldust & Kofi Kingston (9:07) - 6/3
14) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Sheamus, Jimmy Uso, & Jey Uso (10:11) - 6/17
15) Seth Rollins vs Fandango (3:08) - 7/22
16) Jack Swagger vs Alexander Rusev (7:04) - 7/22
17) Dean Ambrose vs Alberto Del Rio (11:43) - 7/29
18) Jack Swagger vs Alberto Del Rio (10:49) - 8/5





Spoiler: Smackdown



22) Antonio Cesaro vs Jack Swagger (8:39) - 4/25
23) Luke Harper & Erick Rowan vs Goldust & Cody Rhodes (5:04) - 4/25
24) WWE United States Championship
Sheamus(c) vs Dean Ambrose (8:16) - 5/9
25) Roman Reigns vs Mark Henry (3:47) - 5/9
26) Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, & Erick Rowan vs John Cena, Jimmy Uso, & Jey Uso (8:16) - 5/9
27) Sheamus vs Wade Barrett (7:12) - 5/30
28) Bray Wyatt vs Dean Ambrose (9:58) - 6/13
29) John Cena, Sheamus, & Roman Reigns vs Randy Orton, Bray Wyatt, Antonio Cesaro, & Alberto Del Rio (16:03) - 6/20
30) Sheamus vs Bray Wyatt (8:31) - 6/27
31) WWE United States Championship
Sheamus(c) vs Alberto Del Rio (8:16) - 7/4
32) Dean Ambrose vs Randy Orton (9:25) - 7/4
33) No DQ Match
Dean Ambrose vs Antonio Cesaro (10:56) - 7/25
34) Roman Reigns vs Alberto Del Rio (9:02) - 7/25
35) Jack Swagger vs Antonio Cesaro (5:41) - 8/1
36) Big Show & Mark Henry vs Ryback & Curtis Axel (3:28) - 8/8
37) Dean Ambrose vs Randy Orton (9:09) - 8/8



-----------

Felt like I scored today. Got me the best of Smackdown circa 2009/2010 & SummerSlam Anthology 93-97. So pumped to cram it all.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Can't wait to see how explain how Mabel vs. Diesel is better than Bret Hart vs. Undertaker :lol


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Ambrose/Orton was good ?


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

What do people think of Bryan/Cena from SS last year? I re-watched it, and I don't know. It's still a great match, but I'm definitely not as high on it as I was previously whereas Lesnar/Punk and ADR/Christian hold up or even improve compared to previous watches.

I absolutely adore Lesnar vs. Punk. I fucking love it every time I watch it.



SaviorBeeRad™;38014066 said:


> Anybody got some good stuff to watch from Main Event/SD from the last 3-4 months? Really haven't watched much


I got a big list of my favorite matches from the year on HF in my notepad. I'll give you a list tomorrow when I go on the computer.


----------



## Emotion Blur (May 7, 2012)

Went from reviewing Mania 22 to Backlash 06 to the next obvious PPV....Mania 12 of course!

-----------------
Owen Hart, British Bulldog & Vader vs. Yokozuna, Jake “The Snake” Roberts & Ahmed Johnson - **

“Rowdy” Roddy Piper vs. Goldust - **1/2

The Ringmaster vs. Savio Vega - *3/4

Ultimate Warrior vs. Hunter Hearst Helmsley - 1/4*

Undertaker vs. Diesel - **3/4

Shawn Michaels vs. Bret “Hit Man” Hart - ***1/2
-----------------

I'm not thrilled about my rating for Hart/Michaels, but there's no rating I could give it that would feel right (my current rating feels both too high and too low). I understand it's a classic, a huge moment in history with it being Michaels' first title win, the first Iron Man match in WWE, and it being a part of the Hart/Michaels feud, but I just found it boring--no other way I can put it. I damn near fell asleep a few times trying to get through it and it felt like a three-hour Iron Man match. But somehow the atmosphere of the whole match is intriguing enough that it feels a lot bigger reflecting on it than I actually found it to be watching it (if that makes any sense). I'll probably give it another watch at some point down the line, but for now I'll keep it where I've got it.


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Jarsy1 said:


> :heyman


I believe I got the last blu-ray copy in all of Tacoma yesterday, for a total just below $20 to boot.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

I absolutely love the Shield/Wyatt match from the week after Mania. The promo after it was great too. I miss the short glimpse of face Shield that we got.


----------



## Rah (Oct 11, 2010)

Spoiler: Summerslam rumoured match lengths






> Source: F4WOnline
> 
> F4Wonline.com reports that the current layout and approximate bell times for WWE's SummerSlam pay-per-view looks like this:
> 
> ...



1) You know what you're getting with these two, already, so 10 minutes keeps things inoffensive 

2) Good luck

3) They have slightly more to work than Ziggler/Miz, but that time is fine. Not sure the match will be that good, but it shouldn't be bad

4) This is going to blow

5) I'm not sure if this screams continuation but that's a good enough timeframe to work a stupid gimmick

6)fpalm

7)fpalmfpalm

8) Typical main event allocation, and slightly longer than their last match. This should be great



Total one match show, then. Cool, will skip.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I'm nearly onto World War 3 1996 atm, looking forward to another Dusty Rhodes commentary hilarity spot. 

Sting just death dropped Jarrett. :mark:


----------



## Yeah1993 (Nov 20, 2008)

Are you watching the PPVs and the TV? REGAL/PSICOSIS. :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Yeah1993 said:


> Are you watching the PPVs and the TV? REGAL/PSICOSIS. :mark:


Yeah, Nitro's and PPV'S. Never watched the back in the day, as i only really watched Raw, so it's great.

Faces Of Fear too :mark: I would have loved to see them in suits, as two big tough bastard bodyguards in a faction or something.


----------



## STEVALD (Oct 11, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> "Ladies and Gentleman, my name is Paul. Heyman. I'm a Jew from the Bronx without a single athletic bone in my body, yet right now I have the #1 selling DVD in the history of wrestling."


Just found the link, about to watch the thing now :mark:


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Onto World War 3 '96 now. Ending of the last Nitro was great, Bischoff joined the NWO, Hogan and Co attacked Piper, the 'cops' all in the ring trying to restrain everyone.

Oh and in a wonderful spontaneously moment, in the mic, Piper called Bischoff a "piece of shit"


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

NAITCH said:


> Ambrose/Orton was good ?


From Smackdown last week? Yeah it's good. One of the deepest lengths of armwork Ambrose has had to endure. Gets the bandage ripped off. Interference ending though.



RatedR10 said:


> What do people think of Bryan/Cena from SS last year? I re-watched it, and I don't know. It's still a great match, but I'm definitely not as high on it as I was previously whereas Lesnar/Punk and ADR/Christian hold up or even improve compared to previous watches.
> 
> I absolutely adore Lesnar vs. Punk. I fucking love it every time I watch it.
> 
> ...


Cena/Bryan rating went up on the last watch. Absolutely loved it. It felt like a totally different Cena match, like he was almost working heel. Used his strength to his advantage throughout and he almost never does that. Match is near perfection for me. **** 3/4


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Yeah1993 said:


> Are you watching the PPVs and the TV? REGAL/PSICOSIS. :mark:


I would pay $10 to have a copy of that match on DVD in high quality with actual good commentary dubbed over it. I'm serious. What Bischoff and DiBiase did to that match is unforgivable. I so love watching it, but every single time I do, I get more and more angry that they just blatantly ignore an incredible match THAT THE CROWD IS REALLY HOT FOR and instead spend the time bad mouthing Piper and expelling the virtues of the NWO. Ugh.



STEVEN BARATHEON said:


> Just found the link, about to watch the thing now :mark:


It wouldn't surprise me if I end up watching it again in the next week. It's that good.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I didn't realise the 'If you throw your opponent over the top rope you are then disqualified' rule was in effect in WCW during '96.


----------



## King_Kool-Aid™ (Jul 3, 2007)

The Fab Four said:


> I didn't realise the 'If you throw your opponent over the top rope you are then disqualified' rule was in effect in WCW during '96.


Wow they had that shit going all the way to 96? :


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The Fab Four said:


> I didn't realise the 'If you throw your opponent over the top rope you are then disqualified' rule was in effect in WCW during '96.


And what a stupid rule it was. Those damn liberals keep trying to add unnecessary rules to wrestling like that or "no top rope maneuvers" just for the sake of adding rules. It may add a couple storytelling points, but it takes away like 20 more things. What a detriment to wrestling and I'm glad those times are gone. God I hate liberals.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

I thought it went out in like 1993 or something. I was watching a Nitro from '96 and it happened in a Malenko/Dragon match. 

Great thing about watching these WCW PPV'S is you always get a Dusty moment on commentary lol.

Watching World War 3, during the Mysterio/Dragon match and Dragon is pounding Rey with kicks, and Dusty goes:

"Kick him there, kick in the belly welly, kick him in the belly welly" :lol

Heenan then just goes:

"Doesn't matter where you kick him, just kick him"

Oh and Ultimo Dragon did the 'Cesaro Swing' in 1996.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> And what a stupid rule it was. Those damn liberals keep trying to add unnecessary rules to wrestling like that or "no top rope maneuvers" just for the sake of adding rules. It may add a couple storytelling points, but it takes away like 20 more things. What a detriment to wrestling and I'm glad those times are gone. God I hate liberals.



That was a Bill Watts creation. His explanation for making it a DQ for tossing your opponent over the top rope or coming off the top rope was, it then gave the heels rules to break behind the refs back. The logic is sound, but man, you make coming off the top rope illegal you're taking away Randy Savage's finish, Eddy Guerrero's finish, and wiping out 1/2 of Rey Mysterios Spring board arsenal. I think WWE currently has gone too far in the other direction, in that there are really no rules enforced anymore and it makes it harder for heels to get heat by cheating. Heels that don't cheat is a big pet peeve of mine anyway. You just can't be an effective heel if you don't take short cuts.




The Fab Four said:


> I thought it went out in like 1993 or something. I was watching a Nitro from '96 and it happened in a Malenko/Dragon match.
> 
> Great thing about watching these WCW PPV'S is you always get a Dusty moment on commentary lol.
> 
> ...


I'll be 100% honest, I used to HATE Dusty Rhodes commentary. Hate it hate it hate it. I thought he was always trying to get himself over at the expense of the match. It seemed like he was just cutting an American Dream promo instead of calling the match. I don't know when it exactly happened, but since then I've done a complete 180 and now thoroughly enjoy the Shiovane-Heenan-Rhodes booth in WCW for the most part. I guess it's just that I can't help but laugh at Dusty, he's hilarious, and he had a great rapport with Heenan.

Some of my favorite Dusty-isms off the top of my head:

"He keeps putting his fist-es in his face-es" (Regal/Finlay Uncensored 96')

"What incredible athletic-cisms" (talking about Eddy/Rey HH 97')

"THERE IS A WOMAN IN THE MANS BATHROOM!" (Benoit/Sullivan BatB 96')

"If someone ever kicked me in my glutty-ma maxima I'd be down for a long, long time. Of course then when I get up I'ma git him back" (Regal/Finlay Uncensored 96')


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Dusty's commentary is both the most annoying thing ever and the most hilarious thing ever. All at once. Only Dusty could do that .


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

:lol Yeah, it's one reason to enjoy his commentary, just to hear what hilarious stuff he will come out with next, and Heenan and Shiovane used to play up to him to about it, he didn't seem to care too much though.

The last two PPV'S, there was the Nun chuck part from Hog Wild, and there was something from Halloween Havoc too which I've forgotten.

I'll have to watch Uncensored later lol.

"He's a popping and a weezing". Dusty line from a tag match on World War. :lmao


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

A commentary team of Booker T, Dusty Rhodes, and Randy Savage would be pure bliss.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

"Ahhh shucky DUCKY now! It's bout ta get CRAZY in here dog!"

"OOOhhhhhh yeahhhh!!!"

"She hit her with da NUNCHUK!"

:lmao


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

"Pulling on your ham hops". :lol

I just love every time, Heenan's and Shiovane's 'What' reactions.


----------



## Tony (Jan 17, 2011)

A Dusty, Booker T, Macho Man commentary team would be 1000x better than the current one.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Mark Henry's commentary in this match is hilarious :lmao The man annihilates Michael Cole like no other. Doesn't hurt that this match rules too.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

She took off her drethss. Oh Dusty. 










Henry is actually really good on commentary. I'd love to see him do something like that when he retires.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

The greatest heel commentator that never was was Owen Hart. He's just incredible when he calls the HBK/Davey Boy match at KotR 1996. If he had lived, I feel WWE would definitely have to try him in the booth once we retired from the ring. He was just so damn good. It takes skill to be a good heel commentator, you've gotta cheer the heels while also acknowledging the skill and prowess of the baby face. That's why the heel Cole was the single worst commentator ever IMO. He never learned that you can't just verbally bury every baby face. He was so obnoxious I actively avoid watching shit from 2010-2011 on the Network just because I can't take listening to him. Having your lead play by play guy be a heel ranks right up there with the dumbest decisions WWE has ever made.

I just watched he Sabu documentary because I was bored didn't actually feel like watching any matches. I have to say it's pretty good for a low budget Indy doc, and even though I don't like watching Sabu much as a wrestler, I do have some modicum of respect for him for a lot of the stuff he innovated. Although I had to laugh when he complained that Dean Malenko, who was the agent for most of his WWE matches, wouldn't let him try a bunch of crazy shit because he didnt think he could pull it off. He made it sound like he always lands all his moves perfectly and how dare Malenko question whether he could pull something off. I'm sure Dean was thinking "he already can't have a match without botching 3-4 things each time, I need to keep him from wrestling a match that consists entirely of botches or else he and I will both be fired" :lmao

I also had to laugh when they showed a highlights from a series of matches Sabu had with Sandman. It looked like every single spot they did was a botch. They had one Ladder match where apparently Sandman dropped 2 hits of extremely potent Acid right before going out. Sabu said Sandman kept saying "here Lizard Lizard, here Lizard" every time they were laying on the mat together, and Sandman said after the fact that he thought he was wrestling Godzilla :lmao. Sabu then went on to say once he realized what was up, he just tried to survive the match because all Sandman wanted to do was front flip off of the ladder through the tables. Dead serious, Sandman just kept climbing the ladder and trying to front flip onto him :lmao. I really need to find a video of this match.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> From Smackdown last week? Yeah it's good. One of the deepest lengths of armwork Ambrose has had to endure. Gets the bandage ripped off. Interference ending though.
> 
> 
> Cena/Bryan rating went up on the last watch. Absolutely loved it. It felt like a totally different Cena match, like he was almost working heel. Used his strength to his advantage throughout and he almost never does that. Match is near perfection for me. **** 3/4


I don't know. I just don't feel the same way about it as I remember I did. I had it at ****1/2 on first watch, the watch last night was probably around a **** - ****1/4. Not a huge drop or anything, but I felt somewhat disappointed compared to how I remembered it.

Lesnar/Punk? Perfection, for me. My MOTY last year, edging out Punk/Taker and Punk/Cena from Raw.



SaviorBeeRad™ said:


> Anybody got some good stuff to watch from Main Event/SD from the last 3-4 months? Really haven't watched much





RatedR10 said:


> I got a big list of my favorite matches from the year on HF in my notepad. I'll give you a list tomorrow when I go on the computer.


Going back to April with these...

Main Event:


Spoiler: Main Event (April -)



04/08/14: The Shield vs. The Wyatt Family
04/29/14: Bray Wyatt vs. Sheamus
05/13/14: Sheamus vs. Cesaro
06/10/14: Dolph Ziggler vs. Seth Rollins
07/08/14: Sheamus vs. Alberto Del Rio
07/29/14: Dean Ambrose vs. Alberto Del Rio
08/05/14: Jack Swagger vs. Alberto Del Rio



Smackdown:


Spoiler: Smackdown (April -



05/02/14: Dean Ambrose vs. Ryback vs. Curtis Axel vs. Alberto Del Rio
05/09/14: Sheamus vs. Dean Ambrose
05/23/14: Batista vs. Dolph Ziggler
06/06/14: Seth Rollins vs. Dolph Ziggler
06/06/14: Rob Van Dam vs. Cesaro vs. Bad News Barrett
06/13/14: Dean Ambrose vs. Bray Wyatt
07/04/14: Randy Orton vs. Dean Ambrose
07/11/14: Randy Orton vs. Chris Jericho
07/18/14: Luke Harper vs. Chris Jericho
07/25/14: Dean Ambrose vs. Cesaro
07/25/14: Alberto Del Rio vs. Roman Reigns


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

wen was pretty great on commentary. 

Cole is just embarrassing but as a heel it was an all time low. My mute button got a great workout. I probably like Wrestlemania 28 more than most but it would have been even better without Cole's stupidity.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll watch Summerslam from last year when I finish World War 3. I'm dying to watch Punk/Brock again, Cena/Bryan too. Also a fan of Christian/Del Rio.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Cody/Sandow should also be on all your watchlists. Obviously the triple Main Event is the must-watch stuff, but Cody/Sandow was a nice little match too.

Is the 50 Years Of Sports-Entertainment doc worth my time?


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Cody/Sandow from Summerslam last year is a good gem.

There was a match between Foley and Sandman where Sandman was knocked out and wouldn't stay down for the finish. Hilarious, and you could see Foley was super pissed off.

:lol Chris Jericho wore a dashiki in a match against Perry Saturn.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The 50 years doc is ok. Not much I didn't already know but I enjoy it.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Oh right, thanks. Expected it to be great, not "ok", so I don't think I'll dl it, then. 

I just watched the so-called Battle of the Sexes from Armageddon 2003, Christian & Jericho/Trish & Lita. It may not look like so, but this is actually a legit fucking good match. Christian's greatest heel performance likely (and arguably up there w/his best babyface performances too), the guy is a legit fucking DOUCHEBAG; Jericho does a really good job of a being a douche (to Lita) but at the same time a sensitive douche to his supposed love Trish; and the girls, for being girls, are natural underdogs and they do awesome in their respective roles, especially Trish. I'd give it like a very solid ***, everybody should check out this badass gem.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

A match from Armageddon 2003? OH HEY WHAT ARE THE ODDS? I POSTED MY ARMAGEDDON 2003 PPV RAMBLINGS ON MY SITE TODAY YEY~!


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

You don't say you did Cal 8*D

Speaking of which, Q&A time:
1) WHERE ARE DEM VIDEOS GODDAMMIT? :side: _(I really wanna watch the 1999 sitcoms )_

2) When are you doing the 06 rambles?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

06 rambles? Hmmm... maybe start them this week. Once I finally settle on which show to watch first :lmao.

Videos? Ummmm... what videos? No idea what you're talking about :side:.

Unless you mean those videos I finished editing yesterday and will start putting online once a week every *day to be determined* .

Again, NO HYPE for them. It will only lead to disappointment. BIG disappointment.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Eagerly awaiting Cal's rambles. I think my Cal score for December to Dismember is higher than Unforgiven 2006 :lol


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Watch No Mercy first. Or No Way Out. Or Unforgiven. Or New Year's Revolution. Or Backlash. Or Judgment Day. Or One Night Stand. Or Vengeance. Or The Great American Bash. Or Cyber Sunday. Or SummerSlam. Or Survivor Series. Or Armageddon. Simple 8*D

In all seriousness, watch a SD show first. Go with No Way Out or Judgment Day, leave No Mercy for last.

Oh yeah I forgot. Being hyped for something Cal is not a good idea. Letdown now has a new parent word, and that is CAL.

And you could start, I don't know, TOMORROW putting them


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Eagerly awaiting Cal's rambles. I think my Cal score for December to Dismember is higher than Unforgiven 2006 :lol


Well DTD got 5 on the CAL SCALE for me... and after looking at UF 06's card... there is a change I'll also rank DTD higher :lmao.



ATF said:


> And you could start, I don't know, TOMORROW putting them


Crazy talk.


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Rhodes/Sandow was a real good match for the 6-7 minutes they were given.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

#ROOT said:


> Crazy talk.


If you have them ready, why not Mondays? It's when Nitro and Raw aired 8*D


----------



## Super Sonic (Jun 11, 2014)

Homework assignment: someone link the entire London vs. Yang series please, in addition to the Benoit vs. Regal series. VELOCITY ONLY.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Had to laugh at some Heenan commentary:

Tenay: Rick Steiner there, making a plea to Sting to make up his mind.

Heenan: "That's just what I would do if I were Sting, listen to a grown man who wears ear muffs, two different coloured shoes on, a collar around his neck and barks"

:lol


----------



## Lariat From Hell (Oct 5, 2013)

I saw a Warrior v. Undertaker match which was the DUD of DUDS.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

Think I'll Re watch Brock/Punk. Brock/Cena will have to go a long way to top that imo.

Anyone think Heyman will interfere in the match. In the Punk match, it didn't really bother me tbh, but this year I want it clean. 

But hey its Cena so.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Heyman interfering in Punks match and Punk going after Heyman at different times made perfect sense from a story telling perspective, I have no idea why some people were bothered by that when the match happened. It would be stupid if Heyman DIDNT interfere in that Punk match, and it would be stupid if Punk didn't use every opportunity he could to try and punch Heyman out. That feud was based around Heyman betraying Punk and Punk going after him for revenge, Brock was just Heymans goon. Punk going in storyline wise cared more about punching out Heyman than he did beating Brock. Not to say he didn't want to beat Brock, cause he absolutely did, it's just I'm sure if you asked Punk the character what he would rather do, punch Heyman in the face or bear Brock, his character would pick punching Heyman every time.

I expect we will see some amount of interference on Heymans part in the Cena match, and to be honest I think there should be. Brock is a HEEL. He needs to get boo'd. Without Heyman cheating, what reason is there to boo Brock? Brock is just a bad ass who wants to fight and doesn't care who he hurts. I'd say 95% of the male 18-34 demographic would cheer a guy like that. Its Heyman cheating for Brock that allows Brock to keep his heat. I remember tons of people were mad that Brock was aligning himself with Vince, cheating in his matches, and tapping out to Angle back in 2003. Um, he's a heel. He's supposed to get boo'd. Seeing Brock in 2003 tap out to the completely credible Ankle Lock was gratifying. Seeing Brock cheat was infuriating, because you look at him and say "gosh, a man built like that already has an unfair advantage, and now he's cheating too? That son of a bitch..." Mission accomplished.

So I'd like to see Heyman interfere some in the Summerslam match with Cena, it'll only help keep the heat on Brock. Brock is gonna be fighting an uphill battle anyway facing Cena in 2014 and still getting boo'd. Unless John is up for taking ANOTHER life altering ass kicking like he took at Extreme Rules 2012, they are gonna need some interference from Heyman to keep the heat. I won't blame Cena one bit if he's not up for that, because Jesus Christ, I think some of Brock's MMA opponents left their matches with Brock having taken less of a beating than the one Brock put on John that night. Now, do I want the interference to be so bad that it chops Brock's balls off like what happened to Bray at ER 2014? No, god no. But Heyman grabbing Cena's ankle a few times when he's running the ropes, or tossing Brock a weapon behind the refs back would go a long way to keep the crowd firmly pro-Cena and anti-Brock. Just my .02


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Heyman's interference will forever keep Punk vs Brock from being 5 star worthy to me. I don't give a shit about "storytelling", it's simply ridiculous for a legit beast and UFC Champion like Lesnar to need help in order to beat someone he's twice as big.

Match is still great but the interference will always work against it afaic.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Paul E. Dangerously's intereference on Dr. Phil vs. Bork Laser punk2) could've been a little better executed I feel, since I personally thought Paul E. saved BORK LASER a little too much by the end of the match. He IS Bork fucking Laser after all. Regardless of him being a heel, he is that kind of heel who gets booed because of how much of a ruthless, fearless and barbaric BULLY he is. Kinda the main reason why Blueblood/Bork III (Cage) went down quite a few notches on rewatch even though I still think highly of it. That's just my feels, though. :shrug

How about we discuss some DR. PHIL PPV stuff? What's the general consensus on PHIL/ARMBAR from Extreme Rules? Because I just finished rewatch, and, well, three things for me:
1) ARMBAR is a natural douchebag in the ring, period;
2) So is PHIL, but at his best, he's a natural playing sympathetic babyface as well, like here;
3) CHICAGO CROWD :mark:

This match was fucking great on rewatch imo. Some people might have a gripe with it because WEAPONZ and shit, but I thought story wise they played their roles incredibly well, Chicago was great and the weapons added to the story as well as they could. I'd go probably ****1/4 on it, easily.

And oh yeah, I'm rolling with this nickname stuff. I've even considered calling Phil CP MUNK, but then I'd just be ripping off CHIKARA 8*D


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

*Summerslam 2011*

*John Morrison, Kofi Kingston & Rey Mysterio vs Alberto Del Rio, R-Truth & The Miz - ***1/4*

Definitely served it's purpose as the opener and it had the right people in it to make it fun. God, I miss John Morrison. :/

*Mark Henry vs Sheamus - ***1/2*

I really enjoyed this match. Sheamus was just becoming a face and Henry was starting to become dominant. Really strong match that got both guys over and the finish made sense. Wish we got another one of these PPV matches from them. I really didn't like the strap match last year.

*Kelly Kelly vs Beth Phoenix - ***

Really not that bad. Nothing special but Beth played a good heel and Kelly didn't fuck anything up too badly.

*Daniel Bryan vs Wade Barrett - ***3/4*

I always forget that this was on the show but it's a great match. Really hard hitting from both of them. Barrett hits a running forearm at one point that I wish he kept using. Even the slower parts in this match didn't really feel slow. I don't remember the feud between these two at the time but the match was real good.

*Randy Orton vs Christian - ****1/4*

This was a bit of a weapon fest but I think the feud warranted it. Plus the cool thing about this feud was all the callback spots and that their matches had a lot of different stuff in them. Ending spot was pretty cool too, despite not really knowing what Christian was doing there.

*John Cena vs CM Punk - ****1/4*

WWE fucked up this feud so bad after Punk's return but the match itself was still great. Not even close to MITB '11's quality but still really good. Ending never made much sense to me though. Cena's foot being on the rope wasn't really needed other than maybe making people think Triple H set up Punk for the aftermath. But that still doesn't make all that much sense. Great match though. Now for the aftermath. Fuck Kevin Nash. This feud ended up being beyond awful. I can count the matches of Kevin Nash I enjoy on one hand and he was Diesel in all of them. Kevin Nash and Vince Russo are probably the two people I hate most in all of wrestling. And for all I know Russo was secretly writing this storyline. Gotta give WWE a round of applause for fucking up a storyline that could have gone about 20 different awesome ways. Ended the show on a sour note but it's still a fantastic Summerslam overall.


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

I'll never be able to explain why but the Punk/Jericho Street Fight has never felt like a WWE style match. It's just so different than their style of hardcore matches these days. I often forget about it when it comes to MOTYC from 2012 because there was a lot of good shit, but I love it and give it ****. Loved Jericho taunting Punk's family in the crowd and the gritty feel it had to it. Felt like one of those Chicago Street Fights from the old ROH days. (Y)

EDIT: Orton/Christian is still far too one sided in the final minutes for me to rate any higher than *** 3/4. Poor Christian takes all the punishment.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> Heyman's interference will forever keep Punk vs Brock from being 5 star worthy to me. I don't give a shit about "storytelling", it's simply ridiculous for a legit beast and UFC Champion like Lesnar to need help in order to beat someone he's twice as big.
> 
> Match is still great but the interference will always work against it afaic.


That's just it dude, he doesn't NEED help. That's where the heat is, that he's such a beast and yet still resorts to cheating. Without cheating, he's a baby face. Punk hit Brock with the GTS and Heyman broke up the pinfall, but there is no guarantee that would have put him away. It's Brock's job as the heel to make the baby face look good, him just dominating Punk and pinning him clean with no interference makes Punk look like shit. In wrestling, if the heel is going over, it's his job to make it look like the baby face SHOULD have won, but that factors out of the control of the face kept that from happening. If the face is winning, it's his job to make the heel still look credible and viable even in defeat. That's just Booking 101, and something that the WWE consistently fails at for the most part. They didn't fail to do that in the Brock/Punk match, though.

I just watched Punk/Lesnar 3 days ago, if anyone thought Brock looked weak coming out of that match, then you must have been watching a different match. Punk timed his hope spots phenomenally, but that doesn't change the fact that when Brock was in control, he was straight rag dolling Punk and tossing him all over the place. Punk looked like the guy who had given every single thing there is to give, and still it wasn't enough to top the beast. The only match that Brock has had since he returned that made him look less than invincible was actually a match he won, the Extreme Rules cage with Hunter. In his two losses it was made to look like a fluke almost.



ATF said:


> Paul E. Dangerously's intereference on Dr. Phil vs. Bork Laser punk2) could've been a little better executed I feel, since I personally thought Paul E. saved BORK LASER a little too much by the end of the match. He IS Bork fucking Laser after all. Regardless of him being a heel, he is that kind of heel who gets booed because of how much of a ruthless, fearless and barbaric BULLY he is. Kinda the main reason why Blueblood/Bork III (Cage) went down quite a few notches on rewatch even though I still think highly of it. That's just my feels, though. :shrug
> D


I completely disagree with you. Brock wasn't getting boo'd when he first came back, he was getting cheered. It took Brock delivering one of the most savage, heartless beatings I've ever seen in a wrestling ring for fans to start booing him and side with Cena. You simply can't expect Brock to deliver a GOAT level heel performance AND have his opponent allow Brock to physically abuse him to the extent Cena allowed Brock to. That's an untenable situation. Brock needs Paul and his cheating to keep the heat.

I think you and C2D are both fans of Brock, so it might be clouding how you think a bit. You want Brock to win clean because he's a beast and that's how it should work. Well if he was just allowed to beat the shit out of everyone and win clean with zero interference what would keep all the fans from cheering him? Fans, and especially little kids, love a winner. That's why all the kids love Cena, he beats guys clean and they get to go home happy knowing their guy was the better man. If Brock started beating baby faces left and right totally clean every time, it not only hurts the face, but it makes Brock into someone the fans love and respect. There needs to be a reason to hate Brock, and Heyman gives fans that reason.

You can do interference and still make Brock look as strong as ever. Brock's wins in Summerslam 2002 vs The Rock and in Summerslam 2013 vs Punk prove that. Heyman was interfering and fucking with Rocky just as much as he was fucking with Punk, but Brock was still so dominant in his victory that that's what people remember most. 

Maybe I'm just too old fashioned in my beliefs, but it just hate the "cool heels" that act like bad guys but don't actually do anything to get heat. Heels should always cheat in my opinion. I never hear people complain that Harley Race interfere in 99% of Big Van Vaders matches, and Vader is every bit as credible and physically imposing as Lesnar. Vader without Race is just a big bad ass who brutalizes people and bad mouths them. Where is the heat in that?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Christian took all the punishment that whole feud. 

I agree it was a tad one sided and I remember that pissing me off when I watched it live because I felt like the whole feud was this way. Watching it a little out of context it didn't seem as bad.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I said Paul E. saved Bork *a little too much* for my liking, not that him saving him at all was a bad thing for that matter. Of course a heel has to cheat, he ALWAYS has to cheat if he even dares to call himself a heel after all. Otherwise I have no reason to boo the guy. Unless it's that X-Pac heat case where people just boo him because they want him the fuck out of their sight. Or simply because he's too bland and/or unlikable for their/my enjoyment, like what I felt about babyface HHH in his later years (2011-2013), or even Cena nowadays (character-wise). So in that aspect I do agree. However, when you have a monster heel - and Bork is quite the monster -, a heel manager sure has to save his beast and cheat for him to generate heat for his guy. But... I like to take my monster heels without excessive use of their managers. Paul E. saving Bork and getting beat up at SS last year made total sense... but, yeah, I personally thought that Paul E.'s interference was overdone just a little. A little enough to bother me, for sure.

And yeah, even though I totally enjoy the matches themselves (MITB is my personal favorite even though SS and OTL are both better imho), Randall/One More Match was 90% Randall Viper All-Star dominated. Which was annoying as all fuck.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> EDIT: Orton/Christian is still far too one sided in the final minutes for me to rate any higher than *** 3/4. Poor Christian takes all the punishment.


I think the one-sidedness made perfect sense after rewatching yesterday. Christian gets cocky and thinks he has it when he wants to go for the con-chair-to so he spits on Orton's face again. That proves costly as he awakens the beast and the rage of Orton as he unleashes all his anger on him and wins the match.



The Rabid Wolverine said:


> That's just it dude, he doesn't NEED help. That's where the heat is, that he's such a beast and yet still resorts to cheating. Without cheating, he's a baby face. Punk hit Brock with the GTS and Heyman broke up the pinfall, but there is no guarantee that would have put him away. It's Brock's job as the heel to make the baby face look good, him just dominating Punk and pinning him clean with no interference makes Punk look like shit. In wrestling, if the heel is going over, it's his job to make it look like the baby face SHOULD have won, but that factors out of the control of the face kept that from happening. If the face is winning, it's his job to make the heel still look credible and viable even in defeat. That's just Booking 101, and something that the WWE consistently fails at for the most part. They didn't fail to do that in the Brock/Punk match, though.
> 
> I just watched Punk/Lesnar 3 days ago, if anyone thought Brock looked weak coming out of that match, then you must have been watching a different match. Punk timed his hope spots phenomenally, but that doesn't change the fact that when Brock was in control, he was straight rag dolling Punk and tossing him all over the place. Punk looked like the guy who had given every single thing there is to give, and still it wasn't enough to top the beast. The only match that Brock has had since he returned that made him look less than invincible was actually a match he won, the Extreme Rules cage with Hunter. In his two losses it was made to look like a fluke almost.


That's one way of looking at it but that's just not the case and I don't believe it. Brock needed Heyman's help when Punk had him in the Anaconda Vice and when pinning him after the GTS because it was supposed to protect Punk and make it look like he had won had Heyman not interfered. And no, Punk wont look like shit at all if he got beat clean. Did Undertaker look like shit after losing the streak to Brock completely clean with zero interference? You're just looking for any excuses to justify that stupid booking decision.

Nowadays is not like the past, this whole "heels cheat every turn" way of looking at things is outdated. Nowadays heels also need to win clean in order to look strong. And Brock being... Brock, should win every match clean. He should be a destructive monarwe who annihilates his opponents and creates sympathy through beating them so badly. He shouldn't cheat to win matches. If they need to get him heat, just do like the Cena match where a CHICAGO crowd was cheering Cena on halfway through. Besides, he already gets half cheered as it is, so booking him weak does no good.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Can't wait to see how explain how Mabel vs. Diesel is better than Bret Hart vs. Undertaker :lol


If I don't hate Diesel vs Mabel, then it'll happen. :dance2

It's already at the point to where Undertaker vs Gonzales trumped Michaels vs Perfect from '93 b/c Undertaker & Bearer are such outstanding characters & tbf, the IC Championship match was quite bad. Perfect was so far away from his namesake, you'd swear he was in WCW.

Jerry Lawler on this show though. My stars.



NAITCH said:


> Ambrose/Orton was good ?


Solid, w/a triumphant Ambrose performance, per usual. Orton started off well. Competing w/Ambrose at who can be more manic. Once it came back from the break & hit the middle, Orton got a bit mechanical and lost steam. Ambrose was keeping up w/his comments, facial reactions, and all that good stuff. Pretty similar to their last Smackdown match in quality, I'd say.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Choke2Death said:


> I think the one-sidedness made perfect sense after rewatching yesterday. Christian gets cocky and thinks he has it when he wants to go for the con-chair-to so he spits on Orton's face again. That proves costly as he awakens the beast and the rage of Orton as he unleashes all his anger on him and wins the match.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course Taker didn't look like shit losing to Brock clean, he's the fucking Undertaker dude! He was on a 21-0 Streak at WrestleMania and had built of 2 + decades of credibility! Anyone could beat Taker without him looking like shit. In fact, I don't know that Taker was ever made to look "like shit" in his entire career, his credibility has been Rock solid with the fans for ages. I'm "looking for excuses to justify a stupid booking decision"? What booking decision was stupid? Brock won! The right guy won! That's not a given in the current WWE, where the wrong guy wins far too often. Not only that, but the match was booked so that Punk could continue his feud with Heyman after Brock left. How is that stupid? WWE's plan was to try and create 2 new top heels in Axel and Ryback through the booking of that Punk/Lesnar match, and that was a very good plan....they just picked the two wrong guys to follow through with it. So what exactly was stupid about how Summerslam was booked? It benefitted Brock, it benefitted Punk, and it benefitted future storylines. That's a win win win situation, it's very rare that you can book a match with a definitive finish and still have both parties looking strong. Without Heyman interfering as much as he did, there is ZERO reason to continue the Punk/Heyman feud. You might say that's a good thing, but before they botched the handling of that storyline, it made all the sense in the world to continue the Punk/Heyman feud post Summerslam. They didn't just break up the AWESOME Punk/Heyman pairing for 1 match. They needed to try and get as much out of it as they could, considering it started as a very deep emotionally fueled storyline.

If it's the fact that that much interference in ANY match would bother you, then okay. I don't agree with that but you're totally entitled to have your opinion. But if your annoyed because there was that much interference in a match with Lesnar facing Punk, then I just don't understand that at all. At the end of the day Brock's the top heel and Punks the top baby face, you can't book a flat out decisive 100% clean win for the heel in that match where there is NO possibility of continuation or rematches. That's Triple H heel booking and it's something I thought most fans were in agreement about hating. Brock wasn't coming back in a month or two to give Punk a rematch, they had to book it the way they did and I applaud them for getting something totally right booking wise, for once in their life.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

lol @ creating "two top heels in Ryback and Axel". They didn't make the slightest attempt at "creating top heels". They just fed them both to Punk just to give him a few wins after losing most of his PPV matches that year. It's not that it was Lesnar vs Punk, it's that the match itself is an over the top concept that wrestling or not, I have a hard time buying into. Then they have the bigger man needing help to beat the smaller guy which only makes it worse. You never saw Big Show needing help to beat Rey Mysterio, should've been the same on this one.

If they needed to give a conclusive finish with Punk getting to Heyman, he could've just continued going after him post-SummerSlam and finished him at Night of Champions. Didn't have to cost him the match when Punk's intention from the get go was to beat the shit out of Heyman.

I hated the interference in the cage match with Triple H too so you know I'm not saying it just because it's Punk. BROCK doesn't need any help to beat _anybody_, that's just my way of looking at it.


----------



## Rick Sanchez (Dec 30, 2012)

Decided to watch Benoit from earliest to latest. Right now, I'm up to 1997 with the Kevin Sullivan feud. I have always loved the Superbrawl VII Strap Match, seemed a bit longer back then but despite being only about 9 minutes, it's still a good match. 

Speaking of which, would probably still go with him and Angle at '03 Rumble is my favorite WWF match with either guy but his 11/1/90 match with Liger was the best of his career. Undecided on his best WCW match ever though. More than likely, it's gonna either be against Eddie, Dean or Bret, but I'll wait until I'm finished with his WCW stuff before deciding on that.

Fave tag match is probably him and Melenko vs. Raven/Saturn at Spring Stampede '99.

On that note, his best match with Al Snow in 1994 is vastly underrated.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta (Sep 26, 2004)

On the Punk/Brock thing, I actually agree with C2D in that Brock needing Heyman to put away Punk keeping it from being *****. Otherwise, it was damn near perfect. I do understand your reasoning, Rabid Wolverine, but Brock's whole booking since he came back for the SS 2012 match against HHH has been wishy washy... at least thru to Mania 30. Up to that, he's been just another standard monster heel like a Henry or Rusev who dominates but not the unstoppable killing machine he was against Cena and leading up to that match. He was like that against HHH, like that against Punk, a complete cowardly heel against Big Show and Taker was getting the better of him as well until the final week before Mania 30. But then the Mania 30 match came, and Brock absolutely dominated Taker... not to the same level as Cena because Taker got plenty of shots in on Lesnar, but with Taker's condition/selling, the beating looked just as bad as the one Cena took at ER. Then top it all off with the fact Lesnar won, now having arguably the biggest accolade in history of being able to claim he ended Undertaker's perfect Mania streak, Lesnar's regained A LOT of lost ground since the feud with HHH started. Now all they need to do is keep it going by have him dominate Cena once again, beat him, and then have him keep the title thru WM31. I know it'd require him missing some PPV's, but if he can compete at NOC, SVS, RR, and WM, it'd be all good. Then at WM he puts over Bryan in a massive way which I think would at least cement Bryan right next to Cena as the number 1 guy... or they could have him put over Ambrose making him a top star, or ... ugh... put over Reigns (I listen to JR's podcasts and he brings this up as his prediction for Mania seemingly every week, and I die a little inside each time). <_<


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Shockingly enough, on the first watch the Heyman involvement at the end bothered the fuck out of me as well ( " GO AWAY PAUL"} but I still thought the match was out of this world. As a few more viewings went by it didnt bother me at all and I kind of expected it from their feud. Heyman doing ANYTHING and everything in trying to screw Punk out of the win on top of Brock conquering


That little Punk/Y2J ER 12 convo is making me want to rewatch it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That Orton/Ambrose match was good stuff, happy Orton held up his end of the match until he seemed to want to revert back at the end. Lucky Seth interfered to keep it at good


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Heyman not getting involved would have defeated the sole purpose of the match happening to begin w/. It was a Punk vs Heyman rivalry. An interaction was key.

Baffled at the forgetfulness of the fact.


----------



## StuckInHell4-Life (Jun 19, 2014)

Pretty sure everybody is arguing how much interference there was, not the fact that there was interference. I love the match but it does bother me.


----------



## Rap God (Mar 12, 2014)

Just saw the Heyman doc. Its freaking awesome. ''That little pain the butt Paul Heyman one day is gonna be something''  . Heyman is the man :bow


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Yea it was Punk's feud vs. Heyman w/ BROCK being a pawn, so after realizing it, the finish doesnt bother me abit, but finishes in themselves usually dont me and downgrade a match in my eyes


----------



## Dec_619 (Oct 9, 2012)

Watched the Heyman Documentary last night. Loved it! Great watch!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

There was a really good Punk promo on WWE.com after the Lesnar match where he explained the Heyman involvement really well. Why it was on WWE.com is beyond me, but that is something that can be asked about many things. If they aired the material on the app and the website on television, then the entire roster would be an exquisite cast of characters. Alas, very few here will get to see the greatness of Slater Gator.

So I just calculated my Cal scores for Unforgiven 2006 and December to Dismember. Surprised that Cal might actually agree with me here.

Unforgiven 2006:

Johnny Nitro vs. Jeff Hardy: *** (What the hell happened here?)
Kane vs. Umaga: ***3/4* (MOTN)
Highlanders vs. Spirit Squad: *NO*
DX vs. McMahon Show: *DUD*
Lita vs. Trish Stratus: ***3/4*
Randy Orton vs. Carlito: *NO* (Poor Randy. Getting forced to work with this piece of crap)
Edge vs. John Cena: ***3/4*

Cal Score: *1*


December to Dismember:

Hardy Boyz vs. MNM: ******
Balls Mahoney vs. Matt Striker: *** (The only reason I didn't NO this was because Cal enjoyed it)
FBI vs. Burky Turkey: *NOOOOOO*
Davari vs. Tommy Dreamer: *NO* (I'd rather see Great Khali wrestle. Replace either guy)
Mike Knox/Kelly vs. Kevin Thorn/Ariel: *ABSOLUTELY NOT*
Extreme Elimination Chamber: ****

Cal Score: *2.5*

Well there you have it. I hope Cal sees things the way I do.


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

Punk vs. Bork is still perfection IMO. I hope Cena and Bork can put on a MOTYC next week, and that Ambrose and Rollins can have the greatest lumberjack match of all time. I still think it can be a great show, although nothing compared to last year .

Wasn't I gonna watch a bunch of old SummerSlams? I watched 2000 today, so I guess I'll just go in chronological order i.e: I want to watch Angle vs. Austin


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:heyman2 is supposed to be a slime ball. That is his character. I totally agree nobody needs to interfere for :brock but :heyman3 had to get involved against unk3 



MachoMadness1988 said:


> She took off her drethss. Oh Dusty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Watched a few matches from Summerslam 88. I thought Demolition/Hart Foundation was actually pretty good as was the Bulldogs and Rougeaus. 

But I guess it was Billy Graham with Gorilla and not Dusty. My bad fellow junkies. :side:


----------



## PGSucks (Aug 16, 2010)

SummerSlam 02 is airing on the network right now for anyone who's subscribed for JUST $9.99. Not only do you get the massive on-demand video collection, but you get award-winning doc...ah, forget it.

Caught the end of Edge vs. Eddie which I always liked (because of EDDIE), and now Bookdust vs. Un-Americans is on (which rules because of GOLDUST).


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

WWE Network? Booooooo. I hate it and anyway I can't afford it. I need my Bud Light more!! :bigdave

Summerslam 2002 is a flawless PPV. Just wonderful.


----------



## RATED-RKO1991 (Dec 23, 2006)

Royal Rumble 2001 Ratings:
Dudley Boyz/Edge & Christian ***
Benoit/Jericho **** 3/4(MOTN)
Ivory/Chyna DUD
HHH/Angle *** 1/2
Royal Rumble ****1/2 (2nd best Rumble IMO, first being 2007)


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Pleased w/how well SummerSlam '93 came off. Only two notable poor matches. If only Ludvig Borga would posture less and beat Jannetty down more, it would have worked. Well, the squash did its job, but Borga just wasn't any good so yeah. The pop up punch to the gut was sweet though.

Yokozuna vs Lex was :mark: pardon a bit of a silly celebration ending when taking logic into effect _(tbf Yoko's first time being trumped minus Hogan's shenanigans from WM was a pretty big moral victory)_ Lex didn't win the championship, but not a single person cared. Including himself. Match itself was pretty damn awesome.

Jimmy Del Ray was an innovator & Bam Bam Bigelow kicking Tatanka in the back of the head while he danced in the middle of the ring b/c he forgot it was a wrestling match was one of the most pleasing things I've ever seen.


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

You liked Undertaker vs. Giant Gonzo? I know you disliked Michaels/Perfect (and rightfully so), but how did you rationalize this?


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

It looks like they're adding Smackdowns in chronological order on the network now. :mark:

Can't wait until they get to '02.


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## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

funnyfaces1 said:


> You liked Undertaker vs. Giant Gonzo? I know you disliked Michaels/Perfect (and rightfully so), but how did you rationalize this?


Character work from Taker & Paul Bearer was quality. I enjoyed myself. Wasn't long or offensive enough for me to have a problem w/it. Served a purpose.


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## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

:hbk2 and Perfect could have torn the house down with a 20 minute clinic at Summerslam 1993. Why the hell not? 




Brye said:


> It looks like they're adding Smackdowns in chronological order on the network now. :mark:
> 
> Can't wait until they get to '02.


Sweet. Good times. 

See. The people who are bitching need to relax. Everything will be on there at some point. For those complaining go touch a girl or something.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Instead they had the worst match on the show & Michaels had no real clue how to work a good singles match around that time.


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## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

Damn the world Michaels and Perfect couldnt put a good one together 

Went on a Punk binge for some reason and then it translated on to Taker matches. The HHH/HIAC is still good, has some dry spots but I like it alot still lol @ the finish being a carbon copy to the 2nd Michaels mania match. One of these days going to watch all 4 for the 10000x and point out the similarities , You will never be Shawn Hunter :jordan4

Onto the kane and lesnar mania matches


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Those lazy Perfect matches*. Breaks my heart.

_*what an oxymoron_


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Rumble 01 at ****1/2 makes me cry. Kane was the only one doing anything in it.


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Rumble 01 at ****1/2 makes me cry. Kane was the only one doing anything in it.


holy crap, I am not the only person who saw this.


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Nothing touches the 1992 Royal Rumble match. Though I do love 2007. 

2001 is pretty good. For some reason I really dig 1998. Foley as all 3 faces is great.


----------



## Twisted14 (Jan 3, 2012)

I watched Summerslam 1999 today, solid show, nothing was too bad, except for The Rock vs. Billy Gunn. What a boring piece of shit that is and what a shitty feud it was too.

Jeff Jarrett vs. D-Lo Brown: European and IC titles ** 

Tag Team Turmoi *** 
Hardy Boyz vs. Edge and Christian *** 1/4
Edge & Christian vs. Viscera & Mideon * 1/2
Edge & Christian vs. Droz and Prince Albert *
Edge & Christian vs. The Acolyte ** 1/2
The Acolytes vs. The Holly Cousins * 1/2​
Hardcore Title: Al Snow vs. Boss Man ** 1/2
Tori vs. Ivory 1/4
Lion’s Den Weapons match: Shamrock vs. Blackman **
Street Fight: Shane McMahon vs. Test *** 1/2
Tag Team Titles: X-Pac & Kane vs. Big Show & Undertaker ***
Kiss my ass match: The Rock vs. Billy Gunn *
World title: Steve Austin vs. Triple H vs. Mankind *** 3/4

Overall: 7/10


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Yokozuna vs Lex was :mark: pardon a bit of a silly celebration ending when taking logic into effect _(tbf Yoko's first time being trumped minus Hogan's shenanigans from WM was a pretty big moral victory)_ Lex didn't win the championship, but not a single person cared. Including himself. Match itself was pretty damn awesome.


Savage introducing Luger...irony


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

Savage w/his endless bounty of entertainment to make up for it. I can't hate Vince for making Savage not work much in the end, b/c that guy on commentary. Ha. A success in my eyes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

People crapped over the 2001 Rumble match a page ago. My faith in this thread is becoming worse than ever. :side:

Kane may have been THE star of the match, but the whole thing was superb fun, unpredictable at its time and had DEM HARDCORE ELEMENTS. FUN. Just the way I see it, though.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

The hardcore elements were badly executed and I remember a Rock/Austin showdown that was given an entirely dead response. :lol like Orton/Cena in the 09 rumble.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

01 rumble rules.

Not as much as the *2009* match of course . MORE LOVE FOR 2009 DAMMIT.


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*WCW World War 3 1996:*

*1. J-Crown Championship: Rey Mysterio, Jr. vs. Ultimo Dragon (c).* ***1/2
*2. ”One Arm Tied Behind Your Back” Match: Nick Patrick vs. Chris Jericho.* **
*3. Jeff Jarrett vs. Giant.* *
*4. The Amazing French Canadians vs. Harlem Heat.* *
*5. WCW Cruiserweight Championship: Psicosis vs. Dean Malenko (c)*. ***1/4
*6. Triple Threat Match for the WCW World Team Championship: The Nasty Boys vs. The Faces of Fears vs. The Outsiders (c)*. ***
*7. World War III*. *1/2

Cruiserweights were the best as usual, Jericho/Patrick was fun enough, triple tag team match was ok, probably cos i enjoy the Faces Of Fear, wo were the best team here.

Battle Royale was a confusing mess, until the final ten minutes when it switched to one ring and you could see what the fuck was going on. Liked the Luger/NWO showdown at least. It did give us this though:


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Lol, I like how everyone just stands back out of his way. THE GIANT COMING THROUGH, EVERYONE FUCKING MOVE OR HE'LL KILL YOU~!


----------



## Brock (Feb 26, 2012)

*Chris Benoit vs. William Regal (05.13.2006) (WWE Velocity)*



*By request


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Pleased w/how well SummerSlam '93 came off. Only two notable poor matches. If only Ludvig Borga would posture less and beat Jannetty down more, it would have worked. Well, the squash did its job, but Borga just wasn't any good so yeah. The pop up punch to the gut was sweet though.
> 
> Yokozuna vs Lex was :mark: pardon a bit of a silly celebration ending when taking logic into effect _(tbf Yoko's first time being trumped minus Hogan's shenanigans from WM was a pretty big moral victory)_ Lex didn't win the championship, but not a single person cared. Including himself. Match itself was pretty damn awesome.
> 
> Jimmy Del Ray was an innovator & Bam Bam Bigelow kicking Tatanka in the back of the head while he danced in the middle of the ring b/c he forgot it was a wrestling match was one of the most pleasing things I've ever seen.


Did you enjoy Bret vs Doink/Lawler? I just watched that the other day and really really liked it. Just a fun 20 or so minutes.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

I support the support for Screwed/Pennywise & Puppies from SS 1993. That match (they're two of them but I consider them one only and everybody should too) was quite the good one, if because Puppies was ON FIRE that night. Pennywise was really good too.

_(No, I'm not giving up this nickname stuff. PENNYWISE may be the best one yet tbh - ALL HAIL DOINK)_

So, anybody give a shit about Raw tonight other than Bork potentially beating up the nWo guys and the continuation of the Mr. Young/Blackout feud?


----------



## MachoMadness1988 (Dec 3, 2011)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Did you enjoy Bret vs Doink/Lawler? I just watched that the other day and really really liked it. Just a fun 20 or so minutes.


Not Hayley but watched it last night. Agreed. Fun times. 

Bret is totally Mr. Summerslam.


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

Adding Smackdown chronologically might _just_ be the hook I needed to subscribe as we're about to get the Network over here very soon (if not already). Benoit vs Austin in HD. :mark:



funnyfaces1 said:


> So I just calculated my Cal scores for Unforgiven 2006 and December to Dismember. Surprised that Cal might actually agree with me here.
> 
> Unforgiven 2006:
> 
> ...


You can't possibly calculate your scores the same way as CAL because there's no way Unforgiven is only 1 with three matches below the average and only two given the NO.

That said, your opinion doesn't count for as long as you NO the Orton/Carlito match. I don't care how shit Carlito is, Orton in 2006 was still on fire and pulled watchable matches out of poor workers. If he carried a fossil at SummerSlam, he was definitely good enough to carry Carlito!

And regarding the rep you sent me the other day, there's no way you like Orton's SummerSlam matches from 2004 and 2005 more than me. That Taker match just keeps getting better and I might just rate it 4 and a half at this point. People who say Taker can't sell should watch this match and fuck off forever afterwards.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

I should point out that DTD has an unfair advantage as I actually watched EVERYTHING on the show rather than NO'ing anything and giving matches -1 points .


----------



## Choke2Death (Jul 26, 2011)

How could you?

I "watched" that show back when I would never skip anything and go through full shows but even then I didn't have the patience to sit through every single match. Just checked out the opener and main event and called it a day.


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

It was before I started doing RAMBLES and skipping shit .


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Well, FF did DUD the HIAC match w/DX against *Big ShaNce* (best name ever ), so there's also that for Unforgiven in disadvantage. I don't care what you think about the ridiculous storyline but I've always believed the match itself to be one of the most straight up fun HIAC matches ever. VINCE MCMAHON'S HEAD SHOVED UP BIG SHOW'S ASS~!

Have you finally decided your first 06 ramble, Cal?


----------



## Emperor Palpatine (Aug 2, 2003)

Nope . Been busy with other things today lol.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Forgot Cal's always busy. Busy in making everyone around him DISSAPOINTED 8*D.


----------



## MyNameIsJonMarston (Oct 26, 2013)

Can I get some ratings for NWO 09?


----------



## Obfuscation (Apr 15, 2006)

The Rabid Wolverine said:


> Did you enjoy Bret vs Doink/Lawler? I just watched that the other day and really really liked it. Just a fun 20 or so minutes.


Certainly. Bret vs Doink wasn't quite the match as I would have hoped, but it still was in average territory & served a purpose to put over Lawler's great heel stuff & the subsequent match vs Bret. A match that was really good, I might add. As was Bret's post match hate.



> Can I get some ratings for NWO 09?


Watch the World Championship Elimination Chamber. As it is really great. Rest, not really worth seeing. Granted, it isn't _too_ bad an event.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

Hayley Seydoux said:


> Certainly. Bret vs Doink wasn't quite the match as I would have hoped, but it still was in average territory & served a purpose to put over Lawler's great heel stuff & the subsequent match vs Bret. A match that was really good, I might add. As was Bret's post match hate.
> 
> .


My thoughts pretty much exactly. I went in expecting the Doink stuff to be the highlight because I was never really overwhelmed with Lawlers work in the WWE, and in fact it was the opposite. The Doink stuff did serve a good purpose, as it built the heat up so that when Lawler finally whacked Bret with his crutch and they started their match, their was pretty much enormous heat for everything Lawler did. Plus, Bret and Lawler had a real cracker of a match. Do you recall if their KotR 1995 match is on that same level? It's the "Kiss My Foot " match I think.

It was nice to hear Bret put over Lawler atleast in his timeline. He wasn't overly complementary of him in his book, which kinda bothered me, but he seems to have changed his tune. He said Lawler was one of the easiest guys he ever worked with because no matter what, even when cheering the heels became envogue in the mid 90s, you could always count on Lawler to have a ton of heat in his matches. Fans just HATED him, and that's a testament to Jerry because you can't deny his best asset was he always got cheered as a face, and ALWAYS got boo'd when he was a heel. Atleast from what I've seen.


----------



## ATF (Jan 2, 2012)

Damn, I checked out my own channel's videos and I saw that I had a video at 1100+ views - my top 20 matches from 2012. I look at it now and I only see how much my opinions changed since then :lmao

Here's the video:





I'm not sure if there are any matches that would stick in the same exact positions as they were, some wouldn't even be there at all :lol


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

Well there we have it. After two years of one of the greatest wrestling story arcs ever, this company commits character assassination on their best babyface. Absolutely terrible. I can't believe I defended this company.


----------



## IT'S VADER TIME (Jul 14, 2013)

funnyfaces1 said:


> Well there we have it. After two years of one of the greatest wrestling story arcs ever, this company commits character assassination on their best babyface. Absolutely terrible. I can't believe I defended this company.


What happened? I'm assuming Ambrose got done serious damage by a statement like that. Either that, or they ran a smear campaign on the injured Daniel Bryan (who is still their best baby face, and by a considerable margin to boot).


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

The latter. Precisely the latter.

EDIT: What the hell happened with that rollup? And why did I just watch Eva Marie wrestle?


----------



## Skins (Jan 3, 2012)

She is the GOAT


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

Why would they run this angle with Bryan and his physical therapist? All the kids are now gonna think he actually cheated on Brie. Oh jeez.



MyNameIsJonMarston said:


> Can I get some ratings for NWO 09?


Both chamber matches are good but not the best. *** 1/2 for both. Haven't seen anything else since the ppv aired but I also gave Orton/Shane ***+ at the time. Remember that being good. Swagger/Finlay and JBL/HBK look good on paper but I remember nothing about them.

EDIT: What the hell is wrong with Sheamus's right bicep? Jesus!


----------



## funnyfaces1 (Jan 3, 2012)

"I AM A MERCENARY!" :lmao


----------



## RatedR10 (May 23, 2008)

Jack Evans 187 said:


> Why would they run this angle with Bryan and his physical therapist? All the kids are now gonna think he actually cheated on Brie. Oh jeez.
> 
> 
> Both chamber matches are good but not the best. *** 1/2 for both. Haven't seen anything else since the ppv aired but I also gave Orton/Shane ***+ at the time. Remember that being good. Swagger/Finlay and JBL/HBK look good on paper but I remember nothing about them.
> ...


You should have seen the reaction on Twitter to the Bryan cheating angle. :lmao :dazzler


----------



## Corey (Aug 11, 2006)

The Usos have issued an open challenge to defend the Tag Titles on Main Event tomorrow night. So many different ways to go here:

- Harper & Rowan (to win the fucking titles finally, please)
- Dust Bros (too early imo)
- Black Show (no chance imo)
- RyBaxel (probably :lol)
- Slater Gator (a 2nd probably)
- Kofi & Big E (is this even happening anymore?)
- The Ascension (debuting? nah)

Hoping for the first one myself, but my guess is we get RyBaxel again.


----------



## Brye (Jan 28, 2006)

Ugh, this whole Stephanie/Brie storyline is so frustrating. Adding this Bryan/physical therapist thing into it doesn't help.

I just want a fucking courtroom brawl between Stephanie/Brie, ending in the losing having to take a 3 month jail sentence. Stephanie hits Brie with the gavel and gets the win.


----------

