# Dean Ambrose heel turn



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

God mode Ambrose


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Now thats ballsy to shoot that angle tonight.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Not sure why they chose _this_ night to do it though.



The Roman Reigns situation is clearly on everyone's mind and it's hard to be invested in this turn right now. At the same time, I guess that the WWE wants to distract us from the horrible news and this was their answer.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

In the span of one show; the found a way to perhaps get Reigns cheered for a very long time (if he comes back) and a way to actually make the crowds hate Dean for a very long time.

:trips8


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## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

It took some serious fucking balls to turn Dean tonight.

Well done WWE, well fucking done. Haven't seen a crowd that shocked in a very long time.


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## TyAbbotSucks (Dec 10, 2013)

Most ballsy thing they've done in awhile. They've got momentum as weird as tonight was I hope they can run with it. Somebody get a shot of Seth laying there looking at the camera at the end :mark:


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

IT WAS PERFECT! :mark:

Roman's announcement, Shield hugging out, Dean and Seth winning the Tag Team Championship, Dean turning on Seth when he wasn't expecting and in the end doing the Shield "reverse entrance" as an exit.

I LOVE DEAN AMBROSE! :ambrose


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## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Time to start watching Raw again.


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## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

KYRA BATARA said:


> Not sure why they chose _this_ night to do it though.
> 
> 
> 
> The Roman Reigns situation is clearly on everyone's mind and it's hard to be invested in this turn right now. At the same time, I guess that the WWE wants to distract us from a very horrible situation and this was their answer.


It got SO much extra heat because of it though. Im sure Roman is fine with it.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

PavelGaborik said:


> It took some serious fucking balls to turn Dean tonight.
> 
> Well done WWE, well fucking done. Haven't seen a crowd that shocked in a very long time.


Shock doesn't necessarily equate to a turn working. You want more initial hatred than shock. Though Ambrose can pull it off he is a natural heel. I agree with it being a straight up ballsy move to do it tonight.


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## Push_Miz (Mar 26, 2014)

Well that was one hell of a RAW , probably the most emotional one in a very long time , Vince still has balls he proved it tonight


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## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

Circumstances surrounding the show were very sad and unfortunate. However, the show does have to go on. This was the best way to get Dean the heel heat he needs. The crowd was in shock. I'm not gonna lie I was surprised they actually did it tonight. But maybe that was the plan before WWE even found out about Roman's situation.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Hoping for new attire and music.

NGL that picked me up after Roman's announcement, became all too real.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

RainmakerV2 said:


> It got SO much extra heat because of it though. Im sure Roman is fine with it.



I'm sure that Roman was fine with it too, but it's a gamble.



A ton of people are still shocked by the news, and this heel turn is so ridiculously meaningless next to it. I would've waited at least a week.


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

I have to admit that they got me real good. I totally didn't see that heel turn. I didn't think they'd pull the trigger on Dean Ambrose turning heel when this night was pretty damn emotional already, but yet they actually fucking did it :sodone

Ambrose is finally a heel now, and he's going to feud with Seth Rollins :mark: :mark:


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

*I got to give it to them, they did put out a balls move tonight. Have Dean and Seth set their sights on winning the tag titles for Roman Reigns just to have Dean Ambrose turn heel at the end. I give them that it was a brilliant move. Now Dean will be the most hated heel next to Ciampa from NXT. *


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## wkc_23 (Jan 5, 2014)

F I N A L L Y.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

Great segment. But as always the case with WWE, how this angle goes depends on how WWE follows up on it in the weeks and months to come.

We'll see.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

BTheVampireSlayer said:


> *I got to give it to them, they did put out a balls move tonight. Have Dean and Seth set their sights on winning the tag titles for Roman Reigns just to have Dean Ambrose turn heel at the end. I give them that it was a brilliant move. Now Dean will be the most hated heel next to Ciampa from NXT. *


 Imagine a returning Roman vs a Super Heel Dean at WM :sodone


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## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

Just...bad...bad timing.

How low will WWE go? Gonna have him mock Roman's illness or...?

Seriously, y'all just...so tone deaf. fpalm


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## Buster Baxter (Mar 30, 2015)

Didn't see that one coming at all, but the timing was absolutely perfect. Can't wait to see Raw next week. I literally can't believe what I just watched.


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## EdgeheadStingerfan (Jan 6, 2012)

Oooooo

Heel Dean vs HBK sounds good. 

Even in 2018...


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

I was hoping they'd have the balls to do this.

This is the company that gave us "EDDIE IS IN HELL" not long after Guerrero died

Turning Dean heel on the same night that Roman announced his temporary retirement is tame as hell by comparison 

I get it that people are torn up over Reigns but that's the point. Wrestling is at its most magical when it plays on real life emotion 

Also, Reigns will be fine. People his age don't die from Leukemia. It could put him on his ass for a while but people his age account for just 2% of leukemia fatalities. He'll be fine, let the show go on


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

People cry for WWE to do show some balls, well this is it.

For the first time in ages, I'm looking forward to Raw.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

Ace said:


> Imagine a returning Roman vs a Super Heel Dean at WM :sodone


_*Roman coming back to beat down the big bad Heel Ambrose with a spear. :brock*_


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## PavelGaborik (Oct 30, 2015)

MonkasaurusRex said:


> Shock doesn't necessarily equate to a turn working. You want more initial hatred than shock. Though Ambrose can pull it off he is a natural heel. I agree with it being a straight up ballsy move to do it tonight.


As you said, Dean is a natural heel. Combine his natural ability with the shock factor and you've got a fantastic turn. WWE took a risk tonight, and it's been a long time since I seen WWE make a move this ballsy. Fuck their safe, conservative approach, I like this risk. I think it'll pay off.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

I was super super down after Roman's announcement, after this happened, and knowing we're gonna get Dean vs Seth with the roles reversed, I've cheered up.

I love Dean regardless of which side he's on, so I am fucking THRILLED for my boy :mark: I hope this pushes him further into the spotlight!

This is gonna be great for Seth as well!

But yeah surprised WWE had the balls to do the turn tonight after the Roman announcement, one of the ballsiest things they've done in quite some time.

I wonder if they can make this last till Mania, I'd love for their final match in their feud to be on the Mania big stage and be there in person for it :mark:


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

It was perfect timing, people. I knew it would be a PROPER heel turn because Roman made his announcement on the same night. Dean will be a PROPER villain and this is going to be great for Raw. Can't wait until next week. :ambrose


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## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE (Sep 12, 2013)

So Seth and Dean will feud. However it's October. I don't see this lasting through Mania so somebody is going to win this feud before then.


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## Dr. Middy (Jan 21, 2015)

An example of how to make the most out of a shitty situation. You had people in shock and cursing out Ambrose to the point where they had to keep cutting out the audio. There was some real honest to god heat here, and Ambrose within a few minutes is already you're top heel on both shows. 

They needed a top heel after Braun turned back babyface, and boy did we get one.


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

we need Dean Moxley


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## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

"The Thavage" Jake Throng said:


> Just...bad...bad timing.
> 
> How low will WWE go? Gonna have him mock Roman's illness or...?
> 
> Seriously, y'all just...so tone deaf. fpalm


His heel turn won't be about Roman though. It's about Seth.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

That was definitely the best moment of the year


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## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

Vince McMahon can burn in Hell!


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

Having thought about it, this was a good move.

People were down after the news about Roman, this has got things back on track and focusing on the show again and gives Raw something to work with till WM.

Not trying to down play it, just it was needed after it became all too real with Roman earlier in the show.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

King Jesus said:


> Turning Dean heel on the same night that Roman announced his temporary retirement is tame as hell by comparison


I think that's exactly the problem.



I'm not even questioning the move from a decency standpoint because it's obvious that Reigns was cool with it. I'm just questioning it's effectiveness when everyone's minds is on something else. Even after the turn, people will still go to bed thinking about Reigns. I'm willing to bet that very few people are emotionally invested in the turn right now, especially not compared to it happening at a later date or under different circumstances.



I get it though. The WWE wants to distract the audience from a horrible situation. I just don't think that it necessarily helps the angle if the shock isn't really there.


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## WWEfan4eva (Feb 23, 2005)

Wow, Just Wow WWE, Could have waited 2 weeks or so to turn Dean Heel


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## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

Already fantasy booking the next 6 months in my head.


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## Mr. WrestleMania (Oct 16, 2012)

That heat Dean got at the end of the show.

:mark:


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

KYRA BATARA said:


> I think that's exactly the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I think this was needed, it helped in taking people's minds off it. We cannot do anything now but hope and pray things work out for Roman.


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## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

Shocked. But LOVED it.

I think Ambrose needs to change his attire.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Remember the "Dean Fucking Ambrose" thing that was going on in 2014?

...just wait until next week. :ambrose


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## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

KYRA BATARA said:


> I think that's exactly the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Disagree completely. The turn exists firmly within the context of the Reigns announcement. Therefore everytime Dean is on TV it will reinforce all the dark emotions that people felt tonight. His very face is like a shot to the heart. It's a turn that actually gets more effective the more you see Dean. And for a heel as unhinged as the former Jon Moxley, nothing could be more fitting than one of the darkest heel turns in wrestling history


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## birthday_massacre (Jan 30, 2013)

WWEfan4eva said:


> Wow, Just Wow WWE, Could have waited 2 weeks or so to turn Dean Heel


why, he was never going to get more heat than he did tonight


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## LaMelo (Jan 13, 2015)

We all know Roman, Seth and Dean are backstage now hugging and crying irl. (Not mocking them or Roman's situation, that's just how the business works).


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Ace said:


> I think this was needed, it helped in taking people's minds off it. We cannot do anything now but hope and pray things work out for Roman.




I felt completely indifferent to the turn, which is why I questioned it. It's hard to get my mind off the news when it's someone that I care about.



If it helped distract some people then cool. I'm probably a little too sensitive to these things being that I dealt with something similar in my own life.


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## KingofKings1524 (Aug 27, 2007)

I mean.... it was a good segment. It just doesn’t make sense timing wise to me. Also, lol at the grown men and women sobbing in the audience.


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## Ace (Aug 25, 2013)

KYRA BATARA said:


> I felt completely indifferent to the turn, which is why I questioned it. It's hard to get my mind off the news when it's someone that I care about.
> 
> 
> 
> If it helped distract some people then cool. I'm probably a little too sensitive to these things being that I dealt with something similar in my own life.


That was my initial reaction too, I hated it and I think the crowd reaction was hurt because of the emotional announcement earlier. But after thinking about it, I can see why the did it. It made sense and took my mind off Roman and back on the show, which they needed to do. As they say, the show must go on and this was one way they tried to get fans attention back.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Ace said:


> That was my initial reaction too, I hated it and I think the crowd reaction was hurt because of the emotional promo earlier. But after thinking about it, I can see why the did it. It made sense and took my mind off Roman and back on the show, which they needed to do. As they say, the show must go on and this was one way they tried to get fans back thinking of the product.



I have to give major props to Seth and Dean for being pros though. I can't imagine how hard it must've been for those guys to perform on their A-game tonight, but somehow they did.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

WE NEED GIFS!!! :mark


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## the_hound (Jun 14, 2016)

this might be sick and twisted in sort of way, however that maybe the greatest raw in god knows how long, from the shocking emotional speech by roman, elias face turn, to that ending, that heel turn by ambrose was perfect then walking through the crowd


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

The crowd going utterly silent in shock at one point was glorious. I love how it legit shocked them into silence!

Also I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT for a Dean heel promo!!!!! :mark:


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## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

If you ask me, they should have waited. I think alot of the emotion Ambrose was showing was legit. I even heard Rollins saying "it's ok,it's ok". Like he knew Ambrose didn't wanna do a heel turn on the same night Reigns announced he had cancer.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Whew. Gosh, I need to collect myself after tonight...

I mean they're going to have to vacate the belts. Obviously this has been brewing for Ambrose for a while and months ago, I was one of those that said Dean would be better off trying a heel route before the year was out. I am going to bet now this will be the most interesting Dean has been in years, because I know he can pull off being a heel very well judging by his past.


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## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

Architect-Rollins said:


> His heel turn won't be about Roman though. It's about Seth.


Which I would be fine with...if the timing wasn't tonight and if WWE was known for being respectful.

They're not. 

I don't want Roman's illness being mentioned once in this feud, but I can see them doing it and I don't like it.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

The King :ambrose and The Queen :becky ruling Raw and SmackDown.


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## Lm2 (Feb 18, 2008)

Perfect heat for dean. That being said i bet he wasnt really thrilled to still doing the angle. That being said i dont doubt vince would change the script, even after Owen died the night still went on. Not ok but it happend


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## ★Th0t Patr0L★ (Oct 22, 2013)

Ambrose Girl said:


> The crowd going utterly silent in shock at one point was glorious. I love how it legit shocked them into silence!
> 
> Also I CAN'T FUCKING WAIT for a Dean heel promo!!!!! :mark:


How do you manage being excited for it and not worried or guilty?


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## Mad Jester (Feb 26, 2014)

I think this was WWE's way of making sure they wouldn't have a Becky Lynch situation reoccur with turning Ambrose heel. The more inappropriate it is, the more insensitive it comes across, the more likely Ambrose is going to be received as a heel that actually generates heel heat. 

The only thing they got wrong was teasing the dissension beforehand, other than that it was the right call to make.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Daggdag said:


> If you ask me, they should have waited. I think alot of the emotion Ambrose was showing was legit. I even heard Rollins saying "it's ok,it's ok". Like he knew Ambrose didn't wanna do a heel turn on the same night Reigns announced he had cancer.


I've been in a chat earlier with a lot of guys over here in Vienna, most are saying they were very confused and weren't sure if this was the proper time to make a turn or if it should have been done next week.

I disagree. I'm loving the emotional impact this is having right now.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Happening tonight wasn't just the right decision, it was the PERFECT decision. All of you guys all sad, confused and pissed about this are proof. "In poor taste"? It's fucking wrestling, the realer it is the better.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

Daring by WWE for doing it but this really was the best moment if there ever would be one to have pull the trigger on the Ambrose heel turn and WWE actually did it. 

People care now about it more than they would be 2 weeks from now simply because the emotional situation of the Shield hugging it out happened only 2 hours before. Now Reigns can go quietly without his situation being the focus of Ambrose and Rollins in the future.


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## deepelemblues (Sep 26, 2011)

Ace said:


> Hoping for new attire and music.
> 
> NGL that picked me up after Roman's announcement, became all too real.


dean got the best damn music in the company and i'm gonna riot if they change it


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## Robbyfude (Jan 21, 2014)

Mad Jester said:


> I think this was WWE's way of making sure they wouldn't have a Becky Lynch situation reoccur with turning Ambrose heel. The more inappropriate it is, the more insensitive it comes across, the more likely Ambrose is going to be received as a heel that actually generates heel heat.
> 
> The only thing they got wrong was teasing the dissension beforehand, other than that it was the right call to make.


You hit it on the head. They don't want another Becky Lynch as in a hel super over the baby face. Though im sure Ambrose is still going to get cheered next week.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Robbyfude said:


> You hit it on the head. They don't want another Becky Lynch as in a hel super over the baby face. Though im sure Ambrose is still going to get cheered next week.


He's going to get cheered for what? For dropping his boy Seth on his head?


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## Robbyfude (Jan 21, 2014)

Alexander_G said:


> He's going to get cheered for what? For dropping his boy Seth on his head?


Cause he's Dean Ambrose


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Good heel turn Vince probably order rushed to this night in order to fill the gap of booking Reigns gonna leave, so I fear they lack good material for next week prepared, at least Ambrose good at the delivery no matter how shitty the promo material they give him.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Robbyfude said:


> Cause he's Dean Ambrose


That's not going to be enough this time.


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## Even Flow (Jun 10, 2005)

So, after the Roman news, I watched the rest of Raw on Sky as it was still airing.

When Seth & Dean had won the titles, I saw there was like 10 or so mins still left of the recording, so I knew someone was turning heel and for whatever reason I could tell Dean was going to turn then and there & he did. I'm really looking forward to Raw next week now.


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

"The Thavage" Jake Throng said:


> How do you manage being excited for it and not worried or guilty?


Cos I need something to concentrate on. If I don't, I'll literally just sit here and cry cos I feel so awful for Roman. But if I think about Dean & Seth's upcoming feud, it gives me something to think about and concentrate on so I'm not as sad.

I'm super fucking upset about it, but the show must go on. They probably could have waited till next week maybe, but what's done is done.


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## Jupiter Jack Daniels (Jul 18, 2011)

Yeah, I'm a bit torn on this.


On one hand, I felt the execution of the turn was brilliant. To me, it had a "Tommaso Ciampa-Johnny Gargano" vibe to it. One that you could kind of sense would happen sooner or later but the manner in which it happened completely catches you off guard, to the point that you develop genuine resentment for the newly turned heel. Ambrose's performance as magnificent. Seth sold as you would expect from a babyface that was betrayed by his brother, in a way that was even better than his own turn a few years ago. As someone else mentioned, I, too, can say I'm really looking forward to next week, something I don't feel often about Raw.


But, on the other hand...look, I just can't buy the justification for this happening _tonight _as a way to take people's minds off what happened earlier, assuming that's actually the reason it happened tonight. Or if the reason is because doing it tonight basically guarantees it will work. One brother leaves, you turn on the other one...who wasn't shown to be visibly shaken by the announcement. Off top, you are firmly established as a heel. Nothing wrong with that...but it doesn't feel right under these circumstances. Because, speaking for myself, it's not going to take my mind of Roman's situation; only him overcoming that can. And I can't help but feel the resentment we're supposed to have for Ambrose now is expected to be enhanced by Roman's situation. I just don't know what to make of it or how to feel because my mind goes back to Roman.


I'll give WWE an A, though, for even doing it. Pretty bold move. But...what now? We just move on? I'm really...I don't even know.


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## Headliner (Jun 24, 2004)

If they turn Dean loose the way he should be, he'll be the best heel on the roster with ease. He'll most likely take the IC title from Rollins but they should push him toward the Universal title. Especially if Braun isn't winning it.


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## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

We're not supposed to enjoy heel turns, but since kayfabe is dead this heel turn would have been celebrated because goddamn _finally_. Doing it on a night where the crowd and audience at home is so emotionally raw kind of works. 

Is it distasteful? Is it inappropriate? You can say yes to both. But it's fiction, and the show must go on, and I personally prefer being shocked during an era of phoning it in on a weekly basis. I'll take controversy over monotony.

All I know is I'm about to tune in to Raw for the first time in maybe over 2 years. Heel Dean, I've been waiting for you.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Take a look at the crowd's faces again. That is heat, ladies and gentlemen. they're going to be sympathizing with Seth here no doubt about it.


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## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

I think it was great. When was the last time a storyline has become as interesting as this. People want the Attitude Era back or something daring that gets people talking. This got people talking. Now Ambrose is gonna be the biggest heel of the damn decade. Dean vs Seyh blood feud, and Drew vs Braun which I am guessing wont be for the main title. You have 2 great storylines pushing Raw forward till the rumble. Brock will probably take the UV title again.

I think using Romans illness as a plot device is a scummy thing to do but still I welcome it. It has a perfect story for Roman to come back to and Ambrose will go god mode as heel. I dont think he will come back by Mania but if he does, you got one of the hottest feuds right there which Roman will win but still would make a great story. This will get Roman really over and when he comes back, he has gotta learn how to sustain that momentum by being really good because he has a good chance of hitting the jackpot here.


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## Hephaesteus (Aug 20, 2018)

What else were they going to do? Roman out, neither in the title pic, it made perfect sense. Probs shouldn't have put the titles on them though


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Finally, something to get interested in. 






You can criticize the timing of it, but personally, this was a brilliant move. First of all, Ambrose actually has heat. No heel turn gets heat. This got heat. Ambrose is, or should I say, WAS, more popular than Rollins. If you turn him any other time, even post Crown Jewel, he's getting cheered and you've got another problem of dividing the audience. Now, no division. Everyone is behind Rollins. Unfortunately, I'm sure this has to end with Dean losing the feud, but I guess we'll see. Secondly, the idea that it's the wrong time because of what happened with Roman is exactly the point. If people are talking about how distasteful it was to do this angle tonight and NOT Saudi Arabia, then WWE has successfully distracted people. They found their safety net.....at least for a few days or weeks.

I'm just so happy to see that FINALLY, Dean Ambrose is back in the role he was meant to play. He's not a clown, he's not an idiot, he's a cold blooded psychopath.


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## MonkasaurusRex (Jul 3, 2016)

PavelGaborik said:


> As you said, Dean is a natural heel. Combine his natural ability with the shock factor and you've got a fantastic turn. WWE took a risk tonight, and it's been a long time since I seen WWE make a move this ballsy. Fuck their safe, conservative approach, I like this risk. I think it'll pay off.


I agree with you I was just mentioning that shock doesn't mean shit really.


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## Steve Black Man (Nov 28, 2015)

Taste aside, I think it was brilliant. If you turn Dean any other night he ends up getting the Becky treatment, but tonight? This was the perfect opportunity to get some real heat on him. 

And kudos to both Dean and Seth for how well they played their parts. It was a powerful moment that people are going to remember for a long time. The subtle touches that the two were able to add to the moment only made it that much more memorable, and even if their feud ends up being crap, we'll always have this moment to look back on.


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## Master Bate (Sep 1, 2015)

So they actually made me feel sympathy for Seth. Was not expecting to feel this way when Dean turned. Feel even worst than when Owens turned on Jericho.

Insane stuff.


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## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Headliner said:


> If they turn Dean loose the way he should be, he'll be the best heel on the roster with ease. He'll most likely take the IC title from Rollins but they should push him toward the Universal title. Especially if Braun isn't winning it.


I agree. Dont know if Roman will return by Wrestlemania 35 but if he is able to, give Dean the UV title. Heel him up and have Roman be the knight in shining armor to take him down. When was the last time we had a storyline as emotional and personal as this. A champion goes down and his brother turns his back just to claim the throne and the champion returns to seek it back. Its biblical. Make this the main event of 35 and its bound to do well. You got a face who has the sympathy of fans, a heel no one likes, who have extreme personal connections and have them battle for the top prize at the main event of WM. 

What sucks is that Ambrose is gonna have to lose, but no other ending would make sense. Its a fairytail storyline imo.


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## Tater (Jan 3, 2012)

I haven't watched WWE in nearly 2 years. Cena's reign of terror was bad enough. I wasn't about to sit through the same thing again with Roman Reigns. Now with him out of the picture and what sounds like a pretty epic heel turn, I might actually tune in and see what's going on.


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

That was one of the most intense heel turns I have ever seen in WWE. Some may say it was the wrong night but it was done to ABSOLUTE PERFECTION. The way they dragged it out and caught all of the crowd reactions was well done. Turning tonight of all nights has made Ambrose the next mega heel.

As much as we love Ambrose, we will all be genuinely booing him through this entire feud. WWE hasn't executed anything that flawlessly in a very long fuckin time. Turning Ambrose at any other point that was not tonight would have been predictable, so WWE having the balls to pull the trigger tonight is welcomed and refreshing.

I hope this ends up being for the Universal Title.


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## AlexaBliss4Life (Jan 30, 2018)

Seth's facial expressions were on point. As great of a scumbag heel that he was in 2014, I think he's gonna be an even better face opposite Dean now!


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## Mifune Jackson (Feb 22, 2013)

Wow, Raw actually had some good stuff tonight. As a Dean fan, I have hope that this is exactly what he needs for them to see him back on top.


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## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Should the title be involved in this or should this completely be 100% about Ambrose and Rollins?


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## Casual Fan #52 (Dec 23, 2010)

Push_Miz said:


> Well that was one hell of a RAW , probably the most emotional one in a very long time , Vince still has balls he proved it tonight


This is what happens when your top guy you've been pushing gets taken off the shelf maybe for a long long time and you've got no solid plan B. People suddenly get pushed hard (McIntyre) and writers have to come up with something quickly without the time to saturate it down through revision and revision a la McMahon to a level of suck.

Tonight is the first night in ages that Raw felt raw. There was some actual "not sure what to expect" feeling to it.

Obligatory nitpick: Why didn't the Shield get disqualified when Braun came out and attacked McIntyre?


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## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> I agree. Dont know if Roman will return by Wrestlemania 35 but if he is able to, give Dean the UV title. Heel him up and have Roman be the knight in shining armor to take him down. When was the last time we had a storyline as emotional and personal as this. A champion goes down and his brother turns his back just to claim the throne and the champion returns to seek it back. Its biblical. Make this the main event of 35 and its bound to do well. You got a face who has the sympathy of fans, a heel no one likes, who have extreme personal connections and have them battle for the top prize at the main event of WM.
> 
> What sucks is that Ambrose is gonna have to lose, but no other ending would make sense. Its a fairytail storyline imo.


.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Lavidavi35 said:


> Honestly once the company gets a gauge on how Roman’s health is progressing Dean should win the UV Title and hold it for as long as needed just so Roman can come back and spear the shit out of him outta nowhere. That would be a fantastic return feud especially because we’ve never seen it done. As a heel Dean has to lose at some point but that time needs to be a while from now. He needs to ride this heat with guns blazing.


Dean should dominate the roster until Roman comes back. Best way to put him over. The returnimg hero vs the sadistic, ruthless turncoat villian. Its so simple and yet a great feud imo.



Casual Fan #52 said:


> This is what happens when your top guy you've been pushing gets taken off the shelf maybe for a long long time and you've got no solid plan B. People suddenly get pushed hard (McIntyre) and writers have to come up with something quickly without the time to saturate it down through revision and revision a la McMahon to a level of suck.
> 
> Tonight is the first night in ages that Raw felt raw. There was some actual "not sure what to expect" feeling to it.
> 
> Obligatory nitpick: Why didn't the Shield get disqualified when Braun came out and attacked McIntyre?


Ref was down.


----------



## Architect-Rollins (Apr 3, 2016)

This is how I always pictured the Ambrose heel turn going down. It was only going to work with Seth. Because of the history they have. But also I suspected it would happen during a moment that had the fans invested, aka them just winning the tag title tonight, then BAM! Rip the rug right out from under everyone. Seemed to work tonight.


----------



## Tommy-V (Sep 4, 2006)

Thought the heel turn was great but I'm not sure if doing it tonight was the right thing. Roman is still in people's thoughts and will be the main topic of discussion for the week. While if you did it next week or later on, the heel turn wouldn't be overshadowed.


----------



## iarwain (Apr 22, 2009)

The only thing that bugged me was that Ambrose wiped his behind with the WWE tag titles. They've suffered enough, they need to be built up, not torn down.


----------



## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> Dean should dominate the roster until Roman comes back. Best way to put him over. The returnimg hero vs the sadistic, ruthless turncoat villian. Its so simple and yet a great feud imo.


Agreed, however I wouldn’t hold a candle to that. Unfortunately cancer has no time table. We don’t know how aggressive his diagnosis is. So Roman could be out for 6 months. A year. 18 months. 2 years. We don’t know what’s going to be happening on the show when he’s all cleared.

But it would be another emotional feud and awesome because we’ve never seen it! Roman comes back like ‘Wtf has gotten into you man?’ and Ambrose is so deranged he lashes out at him for simply questioning his actions during his absence. Even end it with a face turn and break after Roman beats him.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Lavidavi35 said:


> .


I guess you erased ur edited post because I quoted your original post. But I read that too.

My scenerio I guess will really only work if Roman is out for not too long but we cant guarentee his time. I guess the way to go would be a long Seth and Dean feud (drop the IC title to Ziggler because they dont need it and it will only bring it down) and then afterward Ambrose wins the UV title.


----------



## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

What was that stuff Ambrose was ranting about while he was beating Seth up? It was really weird, like he went into some sort of dissociative state. I heard "SAY IT AGAIN!!!" and "YOU WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!!" and "SUCK IT UP!" Really weird. He sounds possessed.


----------



## -XERO- (Jan 31, 2011)

-XERO- said:


> > I am willing to boldly say right now, that Dean will be a better heel than Seth was and Seth will be a better face than Dean was, before the chapter to this story is closed.
> >
> > Dean is going to go full American Psycho here and now there's nothing to hold him back.


^


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Mad Jester said:


> I think this was WWE's way of making sure they wouldn't have a Becky Lynch situation reoccur with turning Ambrose heel. The more inappropriate it is, the more insensitive it comes across, the more likely Ambrose is going to be received as a heel that actually generates heel heat.
> 
> The only thing they got wrong was teasing the dissension beforehand, other than that it was the right call to make.



This...

Most wrestling fans wanted a Ambrose heel turn for a very long time. So if it happens at any other time it would have gotten big cheers. I think the fact they were even teasing it the last month. Was just to mess around with all internet smarks who wanted it. There's no doubt in my mind if Reigns was ok. Dean wouldn't have turned tonight. They would have kept the Shield together for the rest of the year. Then maybe made the turn down the line when people stopped expecting it.


My guess is one of the writers pitched doing the turn tonight to Vince and he must have loved the idea. Everything was just planned perfectly. When you consider the pop they got from the crowd with winning the titles for Reigns and such. Then the crowd so surprised and not knowing how to react. Even the dead silence from the announcers made it feel even more of a shocker. Like they were so shocked they had no words. This was a iconic Raw moment that is gonna be shown for years to come. Just like Rollins turn back in 2014 was. Doing the turn tonight is gonna create uneasy feelings. But found a great spot to turn Ambrose without him getting cheered.


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Casual Fan #52 said:


> Obligatory nitpick: Why didn't the Shield get disqualified when Braun came out and attacked McIntyre?


Ref was down and didn't see it. Dean had to actually drag his ass up from the floor and shove him into the ring to count the pin, lol.


----------



## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

Alexander_G said:


> What was that stuff Ambrose was ranting about while he was beating Seth up? It was really weird, like he went into some sort of dissociative state. I heard "SAY IT AGAIN!!!" and "YOU WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!!" and "SUCK IT UP!" Really weird. He sounds possessed.


I don’t even know but we’ll get an answer next week and I’m extremely excited. Honestly, Dean Ambrose’s character may have just finally lost it. Simple as that. He was never all there in kayfabe to being with. Notice his mannerisms after the initial Dirty Deeds. He’s punching the mat then pauses and bites his knuckles as he’s thinking really hard. I applaud his character work there because he looked like a person having a psychotic episode.

Also, I wonder how Renee Young is going to do commentary on this because she’s a face commentator.


----------



## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> I guess you erased ur edited post because I quoted your original post. But I read that too.
> 
> My scenerio I guess will really only work if Roman is out for not too long but we cant guarentee his time. I guess the way to go would be a long Seth and Dean feud (drop the IC title to Ziggler because they dont need it and it will only bring it down) and then afterward Ambrose wins the UV title.



I'm almost worried they will put the title back on Brock for a while and set up future big match up for it. Since im sure they planned for Reigns to keep it and they can hide it on Brock to the Rumble or sometime in the months after that. Especially when you consider Braun/Drew feud is already started and title doesn't have to be involved to make the feud happen. 


Especially if Drew costs Braun the title. While Rollins/Ambrose can feud over IC title. So I can almost see Vince saying well we have our big man feud. Now let's have big Ambrose/Rollins feud be top feud on Raw over IC title and let our Universal Title get more prestige with Brock hijacking it again. Considering last year they did Reigns vs Joe or Miz over IC title and did Braun/Kane big man feud. I wouldn't be shocked if Brock not Braun wins the title.


----------



## The Boy Wonder (Mar 29, 2008)

It would be a good idea if Dean somehow (perhaps by Corbin) got inserted into the Universal Championship match at Crown Jewel and won. Then they build to Seth's Royal Rumble win and the two of them battle it out at WM35.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

imthegame19 said:


> I'm almost worried they will put the title back on Brock for a while and set up future big match up for it. Since im sure they planned for Reigns to keep it and they can hide it on Brock to the Rumble or sometime in the months after that. Especially when you consider Braun/Drew feud is already started and title doesn't have to be involved to make the feud happen.
> 
> 
> Especially if Drew costs Braun the title. While Rollins/Ambrose can feud over IC title. So I can almost see Vince saying well we have our big man feud. Now let's have big Ambrose/Rollins feud be top feud on Raw over IC title and let our Universal Title get more prestige with Brock hijacking it again. Considering last year they did Reigns vs Joe or Miz over IC title and did Braun/Kane big man feud. I wouldn't be shocked if Brock not Braun wins the title.


Man I hope at crown jewel some shit goes down where neither Brock or Braun win the title. Braun and Drew really dont need the title and I dont think its Drew's time yet to be champion. Braun however is still the better option between the 2. You have 2 hot feuds in Braun/Drew and Seth/Dean and who is the top champion and will be the top feud? The lazy part timer who just lost it after defending it like 5 times in a year. You got 2 mega fire feuds and Brock is gonna face a guy like Kane at mania for it. No good in giving it to Brock tbh.


----------



## JafarMustDie (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm so happy right now!


----------



## Dmight (Aug 31, 2016)

Perfect time for the turn. "I was pretending as you friend only for Roman. Now he's not here, so you can go to hell, Seth", or something like that


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

Well done WWE. You've handled things well tonight. Now that things aren't so set in stone hopefully they meaning Vince just goes fuck it and goes nxt main roster style


----------



## KaNeInSaNe (Mar 27, 2014)

King Jesus said:


> Also, Reigns will be fine. People his age don't die from Leukemia. It could put him on his ass for a while but people his age account for just 2% of leukemia fatalities. He'll be fine, let the show go on


What are you even talking about!? Kids die from leukemia, everyone dies from leukemia. Age doesn't matter, and while yes he's in better shape and has a better CHANCE of beating it, saying he'll be fine and brushing it off like he has the flu or some shit is seriously fucking retarded on your part. Cancer is a god damn bitch, and it doesn't care how young or old you are.


----------



## deathvalleydriver2 (Apr 9, 2018)

Really was not expecting not especially tonight....Wow


----------



## Awareness (Jun 11, 2015)

Awesome segment, please don't fuck this up. They're going to fuck this up, aren't they?


----------



## Hillhank (Jul 18, 2018)

You know I loved the move and felt tonight was the perfect tonight


----------



## emerald-fire (Jan 30, 2017)

I would have preferred it if they had done this on a different night although I must say the segment was very well executed.


----------



## Alright_Mate (Jul 21, 2014)

Of course you'll get a few saying "Why tonight of all nights", but deep down this is a bold but genius move to do it at this time.

Raw has now become must watch.


----------



## Stevieg1993 (Jul 6, 2018)

We knew it was coming but tonight though.... Nahh, but glad they went along with it. The audiences faces was priceless. Almost heard JR in my head shouting "That no good son of a bitch!" "Why Dean, Why!" Was definitely one of those moments. Will the tag titles get dropped now? Dunno how they'll work this one out. 
Also for the UC i would like see a tournament for it. Not just plonk it in a match. Have a tournament leading to Survivor Series then have it settled then.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

They'll ruin it.


----------



## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

I won't watch again, I won't!

Seriously though, this is cool to hear. It's the only thing I've heard since Summerslam that has give me a little bit of an itch to come back.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

This was incredible. Why is anyone complaining. WTF? That was awesome, unexpected, brilliant.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

The ONE FUCKING NIGHT I go to bed early because I was tired from the day before, and this shit happens. Of course it does.

Now with all that said.......... :mark :mark :mark :mark :mark.

HOLY SHIT! That turn! The trash talk!

"You knew this was coming!" and "You asked for this!"

The heat, the concrete, the dejected look in Seth's eyes, the cold look in Ambroses' eyes.

Just......awesome!



emerald-fire said:


> I would have preferred it if they had done this on a different night although I must say the segment was very well executed.


They couldn't have picked a better night. Whether it was morally right or not doesn't matter. The people were behind Ambrose and Rollins like never before after what happened to Roman. Sympathy was at an all time high. It was the perfect time to pull that trigger.

And as long as this doesn't turn into a situation where Roman's illness is brought into the story, it's all good.


----------



## LPPrince (Apr 9, 2013)

Likely that Seth loses the tag titles almost immediately in a handicapped tag match


----------



## Cooper09 (Aug 24, 2016)

It had to happen last night. With all the emotion and urgency of the situation it was perfect to turn Ambrose at that point.


----------



## Saitou Hajime (Jan 10, 2012)

Lavidavi35 said:


> Also, I wonder how Renee Young is going to do commentary on this because she’s a face commentator.


Ride and die with her man like Vanessa Fisk.


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

We are now about a month shy of the six-year anniversary of The Shield debuting in WWE.

Yes, WWE is far too conservative and tame these days, mainly out of complacency more than any other reason.

No, not everything they have done with The Shield has been perfect.

However, have to give WWE their due. They debuted those fellas as a big deal, they ran with them as a big deal, they let stories spin out from their characters and progressions, and they engendered a rather strong, living history or "canon" for the stable and the members thereof. 

Tonight felt like the possible end to that entire six-year skein, but if so, what a way for it to conclude, and for once, WWE has me looking forward to the beginning of a new chapter.

Dean Ambrose's heel turn feels like the realization of the holy grail of dramatic serialized storytelling: 

Something that is equally inevitable and shocking to behold.

Well done, WWE. Well done.


----------



## Unorthodox (Jan 8, 2013)

Very smart move turning him heel tonight, Surely this will get him some major heat with the fans.


----------



## ellthom (May 2, 2011)

If you had to turn him heel, the perfect way to get heat would have been last night, I personally think it was perfectly executed 

Great emotional heel turn. Even I wanna hate Ambrose for it lol. Seeing all those sad and unhappy faces in the audience. Damn that SOB, Dean Ambrose taking notes from the Tommaso Ciampa playbook of asshole heel tactics lol


----------



## Wwe_Rules32 (Jul 10, 2006)

great heel turn loved it


----------



## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

He needed it, so it was a perfect time to turn him heel.

I'd have him win the Universal title before 2018 is over and have Seth beat him for it at WM. Although I wouldn't be agaisnt a heel Ambrose running with a long reign, always makes it sweeter when the face beats him.


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Move Renee to SDL as soon as possible. She cannot sell fake emotion and will be terrible trying to defend Dean's actions or criticizing them knowing they're married - outed for that go-nowhere throwaway storyline. 

Just storyline it as they're separated and Renee asked to be moved to SDL to be away from him.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

KaNeInSaNe said:


> What are you even talking about!? Kids die from leukemia, everyone dies from leukemia. Age doesn't matter, and while yes he's in better shape and has a better CHANCE of beating it, saying he'll be fine and brushing it off like he has the flu or some shit is seriously fucking retarded on your part. Cancer is a god damn bitch, and it doesn't care how young or old you are.


I'm talking about statistics but yeah keep whining and losing your shit. People Reigns age don't really die from Leukemia and neither do kids. The vast majority of people who die from the disease are 60+

So how about doing two seconds of research before whining like a little bitch


----------



## Isuzu (Apr 1, 2011)

Will we see the lame PG heel Ambrose? Or will we get Rated NC-17 Ambrose?


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Move Renee to SDL as soon as possible. She cannot sell fake emotion and will be terrible trying to defend Dean's actions or criticizing them knowing they're married - outed for that go-nowhere throwaway storyline.
> 
> Just storyline it as they're separated and Renee asked to be moved to SDL to be away from him.


I don't know, I kinda like the idea of their segments together, when Renee will try to talk sense in to the guy. They can go pretty far with that. 

And also, move her to SD so they would travel separated for real? That's pretty harsh, come on. They don't need to go there storyline wise, but I agree that they should come up with something for Renee to not make it all awkward. This turn was planned long ago, so I'm sure they have a few options in mind.


----------



## Shellyrocks (Sep 28, 2017)

I really thought a happy ending with Seth/Dean winning the tag titles would close Raw but no Dean turning heel shocked us all


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Not sure how to feel about it. Like many, I like that WWE had the balls to pull the turn on this show after Reign's announcement. But on the other hand, it makes little sense to me for Ambrose to help Seth win the tag titles just to turn on him within a couple of minutes.


----------



## Passing Triangles (Feb 2, 2015)

There's also logic to pulling it on the night Reigns announced his cancer.

Dean can say that, for the longest time he's been holding back his contempt for Rollins internally. That he could control his emotions and not do what he always wanted to do for the longest time.

Then, Reigns announcement puts Dean (the character) into a vulnerable emotional position where he's not quite in control of his emotions and his aggressions, and, as well as processing Roman's announcement, it also means that he is susceptible to taking them out on Rollins.

That's why after Dirty Deed'ing Rollins, he shows frustration in what he's done by bang the ring floor and shouting "Damn", only to then give in further to his hatred of Rollins.

It made _most_ sense to pull the trigger on the same night as Reigns announcement since it gives Dean an emotional precedent to do what he did. A trigger, if you will.


----------



## Passing Triangles (Feb 2, 2015)

FriedTofu said:


> Not sure how to feel about it. Like many, I like that WWE had the balls to pull the turn on this show after Reign's announcement. But on the other hand, it makes little sense to me for Ambrose to help Seth win the tag titles just to turn on him within a couple of minutes.


If you see it as calculated action, which he intended prior to the match, then no, it makes no sense to win the titles and turn. 
If you see it as an impromptu action brought about by a combination of emotional lack of clarity and a deep held hatred for Rollins, then it does make sense.

Seeing red doesn't make sense and is never on time. It plays out.


----------



## Shenroe (Jul 18, 2013)

FINALLY lmao. After 5 years at last


----------



## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

RBrooks said:


> I don't know, I kinda like the idea of their segments together, when Renee will try to talk sense in to the guy. They can go pretty far with that.
> 
> And also, move her to SD so they would travel separated for real? That's pretty harsh, come on. They don't need to go there storyline wise, but I agree that they should come up with something for Renee to not make it all awkward. This turn was planned long ago, so I'm sure they have a few options in mind.


I think Renee should just try to go the excuse route here. She’s not a heel, just trying to explain what’s going on with him, like a psychologist almost. There’s no excuse for their actions but here are the trigger points to what has transpired.

Or she can even just not say much at all. Corey and Michael can even call her out on her silence and she just chime in to defend herself. The show is 3 hrs long, her being less vocal for 20 mins won’t hurt her.


----------



## FriedTofu (Sep 29, 2014)

Passing Triangles said:


> If you see it as calculated action, which he intended prior to the match, then no, it makes no sense to win the titles and turn.
> If you see it as an impromptu action brought about by a combination of emotional lack of clarity and a deep held hatred for Rollins, then it does make sense.
> 
> Seeing red doesn't make sense and is never on time. It plays out.


Then they have failed to make something more overt that can be seen as the trigger to him seeing red.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

I remember seeing videos of Dean in FCW and Dragon gate and been as hyped for anybody in a good while before he debuted and he was good for a while but then became too cartoony, finally the Dean Ambrose I have been waiting years for has arrived.


----------



## Passing Triangles (Feb 2, 2015)

FriedTofu said:


> Then they have failed to make something more overt that can be seen as the trigger to him seeing red.


Have they?

Are you telling me that Dean doesn't have sufficient motivation to play the long game with Seth? 

We all assumed that Seth re-joining Shield and making amends would be the means of reconciliation. That the act alone of reconciliation would merit forgiveness on the part of Ambrose, who was betrayed once by his 'brother'.
Humanly speaking, and even in terms of character writing and development, it's entirely plausible that Dean, though reconciling on the surface, yet held contempt for Seth under the surface. An unresolved anger.

Not all triggers are a direct response to an overt _recent_ word or action. Some triggers remain idle for a long time and are internally triggered by a series of minor causes. 

Ever snapped at someone because a cumulative set of circumstances led to the point that you took it out on someone oblivious to your experiences? then you understand that not all emotional triggers need to be presented on screen directly prior to an attack. 

How many classic and successful heel turns in history were impromptu, without immediate context, only to be clarified one week or a couple of weeks later in promo?

Granted, the WWE writers aren't Stanley Kubrick, however, they are writers all the same and good writing doesn't automatically mean X happens, therefore, Y occurs.


----------



## RamPaige (Jun 10, 2017)

When I saw the title I figured it was just people discussing the possibility of a heel turn and when as well as how it would happen. I had no idea he actually turned I had to look it up on Youtube to see it for myself. If he was going to turn tonight was the perfect night. Even the way Dean turned where he seemed to be regretting his actions before fully committing to the assault was great, like he was conflicted with turning on his friends while one is struggling with Leukemia. Probably not that deep but that's what I got from it.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Jbardo said:


> I remember seeing videos of Dean in FCW and Dragon gate and been as hyped for anybody in a good while before he debuted and he was good for a while but then became too cartoony, finally the Dean Ambrose I have been waiting years for has arrived.


People forget Dean is a top 3 indie hype guy of all time (behind Bryan/Punk). He had a 300-400 page thread about predicting his debut.


----------



## Rankles75 (May 29, 2011)

Dean desperately needed this, and doing it last night was a rare inspired move from the WWE.


----------



## Channelocho (Jun 27, 2018)

I really think it worked as after Roman's announcement I just assumed the Shield would win the titles and that the heel turn might not happen any time soon or at all. I thought we had our feel good moment to end the show, and then the turn happened and I thought it was a perfect time to do it.


----------



## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Jbardo said:
> 
> 
> > I remember seeing videos of Dean in FCW and Dragon gate and been as hyped for anybody in a good while before he debuted and he was good for a while but then became too cartoony, finally the Dean Ambrose I have been waiting years for has arrived.
> ...


Yeah I remember all the hype at the time like that face off he had with Foley in that hotel lobby.


----------



## AlternateDemise (Jul 11, 2015)

Alexander_G said:


> He's going to get cheered for what? For dropping his boy Seth on his head?


Because people WANT Dean to turn heel. That's the entire point.

On this one night, no one wanted it. And they did it. Timing is everything. They did it in a moment where no one expected it and where fans were emotionally strung by what was happening with Reigns. It was a genius move on WWE's part.


----------



## Erik. (Mar 17, 2014)

Can you imagine if they turned him by attacking both Rollins AND Reigns?

Jeez.


----------



## BarrettBarrage (Jan 3, 2012)

People actually whining in this thread lmao

Anyone upset by this is giving them the reaction they want so thanks I guess.

If you really think that Reigns didn't give this the go-ahead, you're an idiot.


----------



## Jam (Nov 6, 2015)

The shield stuff for me was such a drag but they picked the right time as weird as it sounds..

What an emotional night topped with that, looking forward to seeing where these two take it this time.


----------



## Bliss World Order (Jul 25, 2018)

Thought it was excellent watching it in real time. _This_ is a Dean Ambrose I can fuck with. None of that goofy mustard-squirting Lunatic Cringe shit. Give me psychotic unhinged Dean Ambrose and I'll give you my money.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Reading more through this thread I'm surprised to see so many people calling this bad timing for one reason for another.

I mean from a crowd aspect, they were never going to have a better moment to turn him heel given Reigns' announcement.

And from a storyline aspect, the seeds were planted in the last month. Especially last week where Dean took exception to being called a Lunatic. Now, the turn was probably rushed after what happened to Roman. But the seeds were still there. And with the crowd, they could not have picked a better time.

Also, it's not like this is a CM Punk mocking Jerry Lawler's heart attack moment, at least not yet. And I don't believe that Roman's illness will be present in this feud other than a tragic moment that happened between Seth and Dean.


----------



## LambdaLambdaLambda (Dec 30, 2011)

I personally love that they chose to turn Dean last night. They played off the strong emotions that the crowd was feeling thoroughout the night after Roman’s announcement. I feel it was the best way to garner heat. From a storyline perspective, a heel will want to have as much heat as possible and betraying Seth after winning the tag belts which was a huge moral victory as well due to Roman’s very unfortunate situation. It was smart to capitalize on the high emotions that the crowd would be feeling and it helped create the sense that Dean is a sadistic POS.


----------



## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

Just watched this. That was like Attitude Era shit. Incredible. 

You couldn't pick two better guys to deliver a compelling feud. They've done it before, they'll most likely do it again.

I wish WWE delivered content like this on a consistent level.


----------



## LiableToPay (Mar 31, 2018)

Well I'm a Reigns fan and I think the timing was perfect. The product has to move on irrespective of anything and it was a very ballsy yet genius move to do it on that night. This is the most shocked I've been for a turn in years, even decades. Ambrose will be brilliant in this role. He is made for this role. I must say I gained a lot of respect for Rollins as well. It's probably the first time I've been genuinely impressed by his character work as a face. He was brilliant.


----------



## iarwain (Apr 22, 2009)

Kayfabe-wise, the timing of this works out pretty well. All along, Dean has mainly had a problem with Seth, he's been mainly mad at Seth. Arguably, Roman's presence was deterring him from turning. But with Roman out of the picture, it's just him and Seth, and there's no reason for him not to address his grievances with Rollins.


----------



## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

Alexander_G said:


> I've been in a chat earlier with a lot of guys over here in Vienna, most are saying they were very confused and weren't sure if this was the proper time to make a turn or if it should have been done next week.
> 
> I disagree. I'm loving the emotional impact this is having right now.


Yes, but WWE will likely drop the ball on continuality like always and never properly explain why Ambrose turned. 

Is it gonna be "I was so say that Joe got cancer again so I turned evil"?

It was one of those spur of the moment heel turns that they do just to swerve the crown. And you could tell that Ambrose didn't wanna do it. He was pissed. And if you listen you can hear Rollins literally telling him that it's ok. They should have let Ambrose have a week or two before turning heel. There is nothing good about making a guy do a heel turn when he should be focusing on supporting his friends. 


I understand the whole "show must go on concept" but it's gets to a point where WWE just likes doing things to get short term reactions with no plans to follow through.


----------



## arch.unleash (Aug 31, 2016)

I will watch RAW next week, this in itself is a miracle.


----------



## LeanMeanDeanMachine (Aug 26, 2013)

The optimism some of ya'll still have for the product is truly touching. 

This is WWE. Remember how promising the first Seth/Dean feud was on the main roster, with the memories of the epic FCW feud in mind? Remember the exploding briefcase of goo? The hot dog stand? The Seth Rollins mannequin debacle?

Vince is still Vince. For every one thing he gets right there are 50 more things that make you go are you kidding me with this?

They haven't done a turn that shocking since the chairshot heard round the world on 6/2/14. Ain't no coincidence it involves the same people. No one has been able to capitivate the audience like the Shield can and has since they debuted.


And for the love of God, please silence Renee's mic on any Dean Ambrose segment going forward. From day one they should have never brought their "marriage" into anything. They should have kept her professional and impartial. There is nothing to gain from bringing real life into kayfabe when it comes to the announcers. Especially when it comes to a character like Dean Ambrose who's supposed to be a lunatic. Ahhh yes, let's humanize the lunatic by having his wife talk about him and their home life. And fuck her for using Roman's moment to bring up her "marriage" when she could have simply left it as yes Roman has been a part of my life the past few years. Fuck her and her "husband" bull shit. 



But hey. I'd love to be wrong about this. I hope as a 30+ year fan of the product and an OG of the original Shield threads on here they do this proper justice, for everyone involved.


----------



## Mugging of Cena (Jul 29, 2014)

Dean needs to attack Renee next. Like Fenix attacked Melissa Santos. Mega-fucking-heat. :mark


----------



## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

As much as I absolutely LOVE Ambrose, what sold that segment for me was Rollins, he was perfection in it, his expressions and mannerism, movements, everything wow. I never thought I could feel anger towards any act Dean did, but on this particular night, with everything real going on with Roman, their embrace and all of that, I seriously wanted Seth Rollins to kick his ass, it might pass till next Raw, but while watching it, it was heartbreaking and to my surprise, I give most of the credit of that to Seth, what an amazing sell job he did.

Also congratulations to WWE for taking advantage of the situation, it's the first heel turn I have ever been emotionally invested in the way they want you to be, normally I just go "holy shit, cool, something new" or something similar, not this time, well done


----------



## JustAName (Sep 17, 2012)

Lagged and created a dupe


----------



## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

LeanMeanDeanMachine said:


> The optimism some of ya'll still have for the product is truly touching.
> 
> This is WWE. Remember how promising the first Seth/Dean feud was on the main roster, with the memories of the epic FCW feud in mind? Remember the exploding briefcase of goo? The hot dog stand? The Seth Rollins mannequin debacle?


Hey, that goo briefcase was awesome. :rollins










I enjoyed that feud. :shrug I know many others in the Seth fan thread did as well. Sure it was goofy at times, but it was between two men I liked & they both delivered in their matches.

I do however hope that this feud ends up taking a more gritty/serious route. The segment they had last night was really well done. It would be jarring to go from that to more goofy shit. I don't think they will though. Seth was a different kind of Heel to what Dean will probably be.

I'm certainly on the skeptical side also, don't get me wrong. Which is why I'm not in any rush to watch the product Weekly again. WWE drops the ball a lot of times, but the chemistry between both guys is already there.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Still overjoyed about this. :ambrose


----------



## SUPA HOT FIRE. (Jun 21, 2014)

Mugging of Cena said:


> Dean needs to attack Renee next. Like Fenix attacked Melissa Santos. Mega-fucking-heat. :mark


Would be kinda awesome to see but knowing WWE, it's current climate, sponsorships and so forth I don't think they have the balls to execute something like this.

This is the core difference between Lucha Underground and WWE. The latter just can't do it.


----------



## Speedjuh (Apr 15, 2016)

I truly wonder if this is a heel turn for Ambrose.
His first words after he freaked out, where "What did you say?"
He takes Seth's head and dares him to "say it again"
So maybe Seth said something about Roman and that's why he snapped? So basically Seth is the bad guy and Dean the good but unstable one?
Just throwing out theories...


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

iarwain said:


> Kayfabe-wise, the timing of this works out pretty well. All along, Dean has mainly had a problem with Seth, he's been mainly mad at Seth. Arguably, Roman's presence was deterring him from turning. But with Roman out of the picture, it's just him and Seth, and there's no reason for him not to address his grievances with Rollins.


I'd argue that the timing is bad, actually.



Not only is everyone's mind on the awful news by the time that the event ended (and would still be on the awful news _after_ the show ended), but no one can possibly believe that Dean would chose TONIGHT (of all nights) to turn on Seth when both were seen emotional about their friend on the stage just hours earlier. Anyone in his situation would be anticipating the end of the show to be with their friend. It's completely unbelievable.



It seemed clear that they did this to try and distract the audience from a painful moment, but it probably would've worked better if they did it a week later. At least then the FULL attention would be on the turn and the shock factor would be much stronger.


----------



## SayWhatAgain! (Jul 25, 2016)

Poor taste in my opinion. Have the feel good moment, turn him next week. I'm sure most of you disagree, but they should've just gave the kids the happy ending there.


----------



## Buhalovski (Jul 24, 2015)

Do you guys think there is a chance to let him make fun of Romans sickness for cheap heat? As far as i remember Randy was doing it after Eddie passed. That was different times though.


----------



## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

Tsvetoslava said:


> Do you guys think there is a chance to let him make fun of Romans sickness for cheap heat? As far as i remember Randy was doing it after Eddie passed. That was different times though.


No, they won't.



The world is far more PC now than it was in 2006. Not to mention, it's in very bad taste and Roman is still alive. It's extremely messed up to use that as a plot device while he's struggling for his life.


----------



## Empress (Jun 24, 2014)

I'd be shocked if WWE used Roman's illness to give Ambrose more heat. Maybe in AE and RA but in today's climate? Doubt it. Not to mention they're working with Susan G. Komen. 

Last night, I thought the heel turn was poor timing but it's genius. Ambrose went for the jugular when it was least expected. It had to hurt.


----------



## geraldinhio (Feb 5, 2010)

This was one of the best booking decisions WWE has ever made. This will go down as one of the most unpredictable heel turns ever. Especially in this day and age on WWE TV......Especially after winning the damn titles. Ya, for me this was the most unpredictable heel turn I've ever seen. 

Seth has been WWE's workhorse and golden boy this year and their most over face (arguably). Now Dean has nuclear heat and is in his element as a sadistic heel. This has pure gold wrote all over it.


----------



## ChairShotToTheHead (Jul 22, 2018)

A great decision, very unexpected and I think it will go down as one of the most memorable heel turns ever. I personally loved it, was also one of the best endings to Raw I've seen in a long time. A very good episode overall other than the beginning, its extremely sad that Roman is sick and I hope he pulls through, it really sucks.

Great heel turn executed at the perfect time in my opinion. Can't wait to see Dean unleashed finally.


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

I don't think WWE will get Dean to use Roman's cancer for cheap heat. I really doubt the real Dean would want to do that as Roman is one of his best friends. There's being edgy and then there's just going too far.

I think they need to keep Dean's anger focused towards Seth.


----------



## ChairShotToTheHead (Jul 22, 2018)

Ambrose Girl said:


> I don't think WWE will get Dean to use Roman's cancer for cheap heat. I really doubt the real Dean would want to do that as Roman is one of his best friends. There's being edgy and then there's just going too far.
> 
> I think they need to keep Dean's anger focused towards Seth.


I really doubt they will, in fact I'm willing to bet they won't and honestly they shouldn't. I'm all for edgy like you said but it would be horrible taste and its not necessary in this feud. You're right, it should be all about Seth and Dean. Dean never seemed to have a problem with Roman anyway. Looking forward to the feud though.


----------



## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

Ambrose Girl said:


> I don't think WWE will get Dean to use Roman's cancer for cheap heat. I really doubt the real Dean would want to do that as Roman is one of his best friends. There's being edgy and then there's just going too far.
> 
> I think they need to keep Dean's anger focused towards Seth.


I think he will do that. If you notice, he turned Heel as soon as Roman was gone. Like he'd been just biding his time. It was always about Seth that his anger was towards. I don't really see why he'd bring Roman up to be honest, I don't think he needs it to get heat or anything.


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

Daggdag said:


> Alexander_G said:
> 
> 
> > I've been in a chat earlier with a lot of guys over here in Vienna, most are saying they were very confused and weren't sure if this was the proper time to make a turn or if it should have been done next week.
> ...



Him saying “it’s ok” is in kayfabe. He’s not upset with Dean feeling the need to act out his anger on him. Just like he gave Dean the opportunity to hit him in the back with a steel chair during their reconciliation storyline last summer. He’s always expected this from Dean.


----------



## AlexaBliss4Life (Jan 30, 2018)

What reason would Dean have though? They won the titles. It'd make more sense to attack Seth if they lost. Yeah that'd be obvious, but sometimes obvious is better instead of sacrificing sense.


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

Dean won the match for Roman. He even said it in the backstage promo, he said when you don't know what else to do, you do the only thing you know how to do, you win. The tag titles just happened to come along with that win.

I still love the idea of that Roman was the glue holding the group together, now that he's gone, Dean completely snaps and loses it. I reckon he went along with the reunion and got along with Seth for Roman's sake, cos he knew Roman wanted it. Roman forgave Seth a long time before Dean did and Seth & Roman were cool with each other a lot easier than Dean ever was.


----------



## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Dean asked Seth "Do you think that's funny, bro? Is that a joke? Is that funny?" and told him to "say it again" before Seth saying "I'm sorry". Why was Seth sorry for? For the 2014 betrayal or for something more recent?


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Emmanuelle said:


> Dean asked Seth "Do you think that's funny, bro? Is that a joke? Is that funny?" and told him to "say it again" before Seth saying "I'm sorry". Why was Seth sorry for? For the 2014 betrayal or for something more recent?


Calling him a lunatic maybe?


----------



## Mutant God (Sep 9, 2015)

Emmanuelle said:


> Dean asked Seth "Do you think that's funny, bro? Is that a joke? Is that funny?" and told him to "say it again" before Seth saying "I'm sorry". Why was Seth sorry for? For the 2014 betrayal or for something more recent?


I was assuming it had something to do with Roman and either his disease or the UC title


----------



## Y2JHOLLA (Sep 26, 2016)

Everyone played a part in making that one of the most epic Raw moments. And when I say everyone I mean the performance of both Dean and Seth, which literally could not have been better, as well as the live crowd. If you noticed from a lot of people in the crowd during the attack, instead of booing there was a look of pure heartbreak and silence. I don't remember seeing a heel turn garner such an emotion from the crowd like this one. This fued has the potential to be out of this world.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't see why they wouldn't use Roman's illness for heat. I mean, Dean turned heel on the same night that Roman relinquished the titile. The subtext is there. The provocation is already there. Follow through. Make Dean the biggest and the darkest and the nastiest heel possible. 

Chekhov's Gun - "One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off."

Roman is a big boy and I doubt he'd have a problem with it. They are still professional actors at the end of the day. It's an act. Some of you need to be reminded of that.


----------



## JokersLastLaugh (Jan 25, 2016)

I am back from hiatus just to watch heel Ambrose.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS (Dec 14, 2016)

The expectations are sky high for Ambrose and the WWE right now. They took a creative risk on a dark night and they have to understand that this opportunity cannot be wasted. I hope Dean feels the heat, I hope we get some of the best stuff out of this


----------



## Mugging of Cena (Jul 29, 2014)

Very interested in why Dean turned. Right before he attacked, Seth pushed Ambrose once on the shoulder and once on the face/mouth but in like a friendly, celebratory way. And then Dean snapped. I think Seth said something right at that pushing moment cuz Dean kept saying “say it again”.


----------



## Leon Knuckles (Sep 2, 2013)

*I wonder what Rollins said to Ambrose to make him go off like that.

"I fucked Renee"

:Cocky

On the real, he probably said something like "We did it without Roman" and Ambrose took it out of context.*


----------



## Buster Baxter (Mar 30, 2015)

I'm insanely curious on what Seth said, I still can't believe Dean turned on him despite the teases, that shit just had a darkness to it that you can't replicate.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Buster Baxter said:


> I'm insanely curious on what Seth said, I still can't believe Dean turned on him despite the teases, that shit just had a darkness to it that you can't replicate.


Honestly, the explanation is already right in front of us, and it is the simplest. Dean never forgave Seth for what he did to him in 2015. Really, how can you forgive this? Would you want this person on your team again?

1:18 in






The storyline is that simply Dean played the long game and was looking to get Seth at his most vulnerable - to do to him what he had done to Dean and Roman. Seth can remain a face, and Dean the bitter lone-wolf tweener who may someday actually reunite with Rollins (perhaps when Roman returns).


----------



## xio8ups (Nov 6, 2015)

yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


----------



## Uncle P (Jul 22, 2018)

xio8ups said:


> yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


OooHH, edgy! Can I be your friend?


----------



## grassfinn (Jan 31, 2018)

So excited for this. It's long, long overdue and the turn was masterfully done. I'm sure Roman is fine with it, I dunno why people are getting up in arms over it. For the first time in a long time, I can't wait for RAW. Seth and Dean already had a great feud and with the roles reversed and an actual unhinged Ambrose, this has a lot of potential.

Plus Dean was just phenomenal during the turn and Seth was too. The whole thing was great.


----------



## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

The Renegade said:


> Him saying “it’s ok” is in kayfabe. He’s not upset with Dean feeling the need to act out his anger on him. Just like he gave Dean the opportunity to hit him in the back with a steel chair during their reconciliation storyline last summer. He’s always expected this from Dean.


I think you are wrong. I think Dean was legit upset that WWE decided to greenlight his heel turn on the same night that Reigns announced he was cancer. 

I can't say Im surprised by the decision. We are talking about a company that after Owen Hart died they just mopped up the blood and went on with the show like nothing happened,.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

xio8ups said:


> yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn


I agree, I too like watching 2 guys flip around for 45 minutes while Dave Meltzer is in the background creaming himself over "6 stars"


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

I seriously don't know how anybody could find this storyline and Dean's turn boring :lol It was a legit shocker and something nobody saw coming, on that particular ep of Raw anyway.

And I was saying this in Dean's thread but as the biggest Shield fan on WF and possibly the only person left here who actually supported their reunion lol, I am really ok with this angle. I love Dean vs Seth so much, it's my favourite feud ever so of course I'm down for another round of it. And I fell in love with Dean as a heel, so I have no issues with his turn. I'm proud of him, he's deserved this spotlight for so long, and he worked so fucking hard to come back from his injury what with the staph infection. So I'm super pleased this is happening!


----------



## Natsuke (Dec 2, 2009)

So next week will be my first time watching RAW from the beginning after almost 2 years away from it.

This was a great heel turn for me. I've watched clips of the WWE every now and then and the way they were originally planning the heel turn sucked. It really did.

After Roman announced his departure, I wasn't ready for it, even just by watching the WWE clip on youtube. It felt... right. I'm pretty sure Roman was 100% okay with it, too. 



> So here's my thought-process regarding Dean's reasons for the attack:
> - Him reuniting with Rollins after burying the hatchet in 2017 was real and purely genuine. He does truly look at Rollins like a brother, just like Roman, and accepted him back, making the brotherhood whole again.
> - Once Roman left, Dean's insecurities came back. Yet again, he lost another brother just like before when Rollins stabbed them in the back; another person he felt he could trust his back to.
> - The Shield has now failed to reunite more than 3 times. Every time Dean finds it in himself to come back to them, they always fall apart.
> ...


TL;DR - Dean can't keep trusting his back and his own sanity to a bunch of brothers who always leave him when he needs them the most. Roman leaving was the final straw, and Dean attacks his brother not because he hates him, but because he feels he needs to, in order to become his own man. Rollins will probably try to convince Dean that he walked this path before and it wasn't worth it, but he'll fight if he has to.

If Dead and Roman are the brothers who never break, Dean and Rollins are the brothers that always do.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

Ambrose, Ambrose, Ambrose, you sick fuck, you just reminded me why I loved your goofy ass the first time I saw you in CZW against Brain Damage. Dude was born to play a deranged fuck, not a goofy #LUNATICFRINGEOHMY.

Him LOSING his shit after the first Dirty Deeds with this incredible thousand yard stare, and then punching the mat and biting down on his hand as if to punish himself for doing it, and then screaming "WHY DID YOU DO IT ?" Not knowing if he's saying himself or to Seth, was fucking brilliant. Speaking of Seth, I'll give him ALL the props for his work. Him telling Dean "It's ok It'll be ok' was amazing and heartbreaking, yes, I actually felt bad for Seth. 

Dean thinking it over for a second only to unleash hell on Seth screaming that he told him why and he needs to say it again, I assume he's referring to Seth's friendly ribbing about "lunatic time" and how he feels Seth has treated him like a joke, I say this because I could hear Deano say " You think this is a joke" "You think this is funny' Shit makes sense. 

The rest of the beating was everything you could hope for and bless this crowd for booing him and swearing at him SO much they had to mute it, it put it over the top.

Dean throwing the belts on Seth and asking if that's all he cares about is another layer of this that I can't wait to be revealed in coming weeks. SO many ways this could go. Did he do it because he's sick of being considered a joke, and having Seth treat him as such? Did he do it because he never actually forgave Seth for his betrayal, and he was biding his time to act? Did it happen because Roman was his true north, or constant if you wheel, and he was all that was holding Dean together, and him getting sick made Dean FINALLY lose it? The directions this could take are endless and have all the potential for a MOTHERFUCKER of a feud. So, don't ruin it, WWE. 

Also, he reminded me of Jake the Snake last night with that twisted look in his eye and the brief savouring of the moment before he KILLED him with DDT on the concrete, and that ungodly thud was :andre  

Dean walking UP the stairs after throwing the shirt away was PERFECT. You want to make damn sure the Shield is dead and buried then this is how you do it


----------



## The Renegade (Jul 19, 2011)

Daggdag said:


> I think you are wrong. I think Dean was legit upset that WWE decided to greenlight his heel turn on the same night that Reigns announced he was cancer.
> 
> I can't say Im surprised by the decision. We are talking about a company that after Owen Hart died they just mopped up the blood and went on with the show like nothing happened,.


Why work yourself up over something that’s essentially head cannon? It’s not like Seth only said it when the attack began. He kept repeating it throughout the in ring beating. Not to mention that in falls in line with the story they’ve told between the two thus far. 

The decision isn’t even all that tasteless. WWE went out of their way to give Roman a proper send off. As the company’s top guy, I’m sure he understands more than anyone else the need to allow the show to go on. They managed to change the conversation with a single ddt and propelled two of his closet friends into a ridiculously hot feud. That’s how you make lemonade.


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

I don't doubt that Dean was upset about having to do the turn on the same night as Roman's announcement, but he's also a professional and did his job. And Roman probably told his bros to get out there and make him proud.

Seth's "it's ok" was definitely part of the storyline, he was basically forgiving Dean immediately for attacking him, saying it's fine that he attacked him and that he wasn't angry about it. Look at the way Seth holds out his hand to Dean as he says it:


















Seth barely fought back against Dean, he basically just let him do it, like he felt he deserved it. Seth's been trying to repent for the betrayal for a long time, since he and Dean began working together again in 2017. He also said in the leadup to Mania 33 that he felt he deserved everything that happened to him cos of what he did.

Where they go from here is so interesting - will they have Seth refuse to fight Dean and try to reason with him? Will Dean keep getting at him until Seth finally has enough and says "ok fine, let's fight!"?


----------



## DesolationRow (Oct 11, 2009)

Using Roman Reigns's illness in Dean Ambrose's heel turn storyline is a risky gambit and if WWE follows a predictable and foolish course by having Ambrose badmouth Reigns it would be problematic in several different ways. Remove the issue of "taste" for a matter and recognize the glaring truth, which is that it would not make any sense. Ambrose has not displayed anger or resentment toward Reigns. Reigns is not Ambrose's problem; Seth Rollins is. Moreover, the truly prudent path for WWE to commit to would be to have Ambrose say that he is fighting his fight with Rollins now and that his impulses were held in check by Reigns's presence. As Ambrose becomes more and more disturbingly convinced that he is in the right--and let us face it, the material is abundant to provide him with plenty of talking points--he can even state that he is the one representing the oldest virtues of The Shield and consequently maintaining Reigns's legacy and place. If WWE is looking to ever use Reigns's leukemia in the unfolding storyline they should have Ambrose somewhat unctuously dedicate more matches to Reigns and place himself as his fallen Shield comrade's vindicator and avenging angel. If anything, Ambrose should be a twisted version of a Reigns fan. 

One day if Reigns does come back from his leukemia you can have him return at the most opportune time with Ambrose lording it over--preferably both verbally and physically--some fallen babyface (Rollins making the most sense but it could be someone else by that point in time). And even if Reigns cannot wrestle he could return for a segment with an update on his condition. 

Having said all of that, it is not like they are lacking content with this feud even if they never mention Reigns's name again, much less the illness that is placing him on the shelf. Knowing WWE, however, and how they like to push buttons that hit raw nerves, it will probably bubble up to the surface.


----------



## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

Mr.Amazing5441 said:


> Calling him a lunatic maybe?


Right? Why aren't more picking up on this? Didn't Dean snap on Rollins last week for calling him a lunatic? And that he is 'crazy' Ambrose showing when you don't expect him to show up. I'm pretty positive they're going with a psychopath or schizophrenic persona with Ambrose, Moxley-style.


----------



## emerald-fire (Jan 30, 2017)

Ambrose Girl said:


> I don't doubt that Dean was upset about having to do the turn on the same night as Roman's announcement, but he's also a professional and did his job. And Roman probably told his bros to get out there and make him proud.
> 
> Seth's "it's ok" was definitely part of the storyline, he was basically forgiving Dean immediately for attacking him, saying it's fine that he attacked him and that he wasn't angry about it. Look at the way Seth holds out his hand to Dean as he says it:
> 
> ...


This is a really complex and intricate storyline. I just hope both of them will deliver some amazing character work. I know Dean certainly will and after that segment, I'm confident that Seth will do so too.


----------



## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

emerald-fire said:


> This is a really complex and intricate storyline. I just hope both of them will deliver some amazing character work. I know Dean certainly will and after that segment, I'm confident that Seth will do so too.


I’m fully confident in Seth delivering opposite Ambrose. They always do great things together.

Idk why, but I feel like Seth should come out and give a heartfelt promo next week, even cry a little if he can act that well, and then Ambrose just barges in and beats his ass again just to generate more heat before going on a tangent and aggressively dismissing everything Seth has said. This feud can easily be must see TV if they play their cards right.


----------



## Magnum721 (Jul 11, 2018)

It's very possible to kayfabe this in a way without exploiting the situation. Roman was the middle man that seemed to always calm the situation. From Dean's perspective he feels Seth is being condescending and Roman isn't there to let cooler heads prevail.


----------



## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Gn1212 said:


> Right? Why aren't more picking up on this? Didn't Dean snap on Rollins last week for calling him a lunatic? And that he is 'crazy' Ambrose showing when you don't expect him to show up. I'm pretty positive they're going with a psychopath or schizophrenic persona with Ambrose, Moxley-style.


I hope this is just part of the reason. Tbh, I wouldnt enjoy an intense heel turn like this happen because Rollins called him a nickname he didnt like.


----------



## JTB33b (Jun 26, 2007)

It would have been better had we heard Renee's reaction to it.


----------



## grassfinn (Jan 31, 2018)

Gn1212 said:


> Right? Why aren't more picking up on this? Didn't Dean snap on Rollins last week for calling him a lunatic? And that he is 'crazy' Ambrose showing when you don't expect him to show up. I'm pretty positive they're going with a psychopath or schizophrenic persona with Ambrose, Moxley-style.


He was talking to himself during the beatdown so that'd be neat.


----------



## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

If they are doing a "Seth won't fight back" storyline, where he's all zen and views Ambrose attacking him as kharma, I think thats the most idiotic thing in the world, cause it completely takes away any possible conflict.

The only way they could work it out is if Ambrose did something so bad that Seth had no choice but to fight, like attacking Reigns while he was getting a chemo treatment or something, but WWE won't do that.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

Daggdag said:


> If they are doing a "Seth won't fight back" storyline, where he's all zen and views Ambrose attacking him as kharma, I think thats the most idiotic thing in the world, cause it completely takes away any possible conflict.
> 
> The only way they could work it out is if Ambrose did something so bad that Seth had no choice but to fight, like attacking Reigns while he was getting a chemo treatment or something, but WWE won't do that.


That's definitely not the "most idiotic thing in the world", it's called slow build. Seth SHOULD refuse to fight, because that makes fucking sense. But slowly Ambrose will provoke him again and again, and again. I really hope they don't go the easy, cheap and disgusting route by bringing up Reigns. Their history and previous build is enough to make it compelling. Seth should try to talk some sense into him, but that won't work, and some time in the future they would have to fight. Maybe bring some more personal things. Just don't do Reigns stuff, the story doesn't need it at all. 

I'd personally have Dean injure Rollins so bad he can't compete, kayfabe healing time is like a year. Then Ambrose can go on and win the Universal Title, Seth surprises everybody winning the Rumble and you have you WM Main Event. True Main Event, that people would WANT to see, and the first in forever without part timers.


----------



## Daggdag (Jun 14, 2011)

I don't see Ambrose willing the world title..... If anything they will have a rivalry over the IC belt. 

I see Strowman winning the belt at the next PPV, either Crown Jewel or Survivor Series if Crown Jewel is cancelled, and holding it until WM, and I see it being Mcintyre, not Ambrose who takes it from him at WM.


----------



## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

The funny thing about titles is Ambrose doesn't give a shit about them. He even said it before - titles come and go. So I can imagine that he wouldn't want to take Rollins's IC Title, he even threw it on him. I'd like to think they will continue with this idea and make Ambrose screw Rollins out of his championships. This feud is far bigger than those titles. It doesn't need any title at all frankly. But they can easily make Ambrose just want to take those titles away from Rollins to himself. Now, that is not remotely as interesting, but I can see them doing it anyway.


----------



## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

RBrooks said:


> But they can easily make Ambrose just want to take those titles away from Rollins to himself.


I could see them spinning it as Dean not necessarily wanting the titles for himself, just him not wanting Seth to have them. Those championships are basically the only things Seth has left now, so if Dean can take those away as well and leave Seth with nothing...


I just mainly want Dean to have another proper title run with _some_ title at some point though :lol


----------



## kristie wilson (Dec 30, 2016)

Ambrose Girl said:


> I could see them spinning it as Dean not necessarily wanting the titles for himself, just him not wanting Seth to have them. Those championships are basically the only things Seth has left now, so if Dean can take those away as well and leave Seth with nothing...
> 
> 
> *I just mainly want Dean to have another proper title run with some title at some point though* :lol


i do too. I would love for him to be universal champion.


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## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

kristie wilson said:


> i do too. I would love for him to be universal champion.


Dean as Universal Champion & Rollins wins the Rumble to set-up a rematch. :drose

Not gonna' happen, but it'd be cool.


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## looper007 (Dec 20, 2014)

I can see why it's upsetting some people, personally I would have left it for another week and ended the show on a high. But it's WWE and they'll use anything to get some heat. I'm not liking people saying that Reign's Cancer is fake just to get over a heel turn for Ambrose, come on people.


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

Ambrose Girl said:


> I could see them spinning it as Dean not necessarily wanting the titles for himself, just him not wanting Seth to have them. Those championships are basically the only things Seth has left now, so if Dean can take those away as well and leave Seth with nothing...
> 
> 
> I just mainly want Dean to have another proper title run with _some_ title at some point though :lol


Yeah, it's obvious they'll shift it all, so he would want the title. I just hope it's not the IC Title :lol 

He actually had a decent run with the WWE Title in 2016, I don't know why people shit on that reign. I mean even Dean fans don't like it. Well, it would be better for him to hold it longer, yes, but he cut a lot of good promos and had plenty of good matches. Could be worse. He could lose the Shield Triple Threat, that'd be it. 




The Fourth Wall said:


> Dean as Universal Champion & Rollins wins the Rumble to set-up a rematch. :drose
> 
> Not gonna' happen, but it'd be cool.


Actually, it probably has a decent chance of happening. Depends really. What if this feud is fresh enough 2 months from now? I can see them going with the hottest rivalry as a Wrestlemania main event. 

Who else? Braun vs Drew will be over by Royal Rumble, I'm positive. Some part timer again? Well, if Brock wins the belt, anything is possible...


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## Mox Girl (Sep 29, 2014)

RBrooks said:


> He actually had a decent run with the WWE Title in 2016, I don't know why people shit on that reign. I mean even Dean fans don't like it.


I liked his title reign :shrug I'll always defend it too. It had way more positives than negatives. Yeah, I mean they could have given him a better Summerslam opponent than Dolph Ziggler (sorry Ziggy) but that feud was actually pretty good, it had some good promos in the leadup. The Shield triple threat was aces, and Seth & Dean did a great job with the buildup. And the match where Dean lost the title to AJ Styles was awesome also.

People just shit on it cos it was shortish and cos that fucking stupid Stone Cold podcast that people love to bring up as the reason why Dean is 'lazy' happened in the middle of it  And cos it was apparently cool to hate on Deano at that time.


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## 751161 (Nov 23, 2012)

RBrooks said:


> Actually, it probably has a decent chance of happening. Depends really. What if this feud is fresh enough 2 months from now? I can see them going with the hottest rivalry as a Wrestlemania main event.
> 
> Who else? Braun vs Drew will be over by Royal Rumble, I'm positive. Some part timer again? Well, if Brock wins the belt, anything is possible...


I hope you're right, man. It'd be cool to see two full-time guys in the Main Event of WrestleMania for a change, with a proper feud ender. 



Ambrose Girl said:


> I liked his title reign :shrug I'll always defend it too. It had way more positives than negatives. Yeah, I mean they could have given him a better Summerslam opponent than Dolph Ziggler (sorry Ziggy) but that feud was actually pretty good, it had some good promos in the leadup. The Shield triple threat was aces, and Seth & Dean did a great job with the buildup. And the match where Dean lost the title to AJ Styles was awesome also.
> 
> People just shit on it cos it was shortish and cos that fucking stupid Stone Cold podcast that people love to bring up as the reason why Dean is 'lazy' happened in the middle of it  And cos it was apparently cool to hate on Deano at that time.


I enjoyed that reign as well, despite how short it was. Dean looked a million bucks with that Title. I DO think the Triple Threat could have been a bit better and longer, but it wasn't bad or anything. The stuff he did with Styles on Smackdown were fantastic, AJ & Dean really put SDL on the map.


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## RBrooks (Oct 18, 2013)

Ambrose Girl said:


> I liked his title reign :shrug I'll always defend it too. It had way more positives than negatives. Yeah, I mean they could have given him a better Summerslam opponent than Dolph Ziggler (sorry Ziggy) but that feud was actually pretty good, it had some good promos in the leadup. The Shield triple threat was aces, and Seth & Dean did a great job with the buildup. And the match where Dean lost the title to AJ Styles was awesome also.
> 
> People just shit on it cos it was shortish and cos that fucking stupid Stone Cold podcast that people love to bring up as the reason why Dean is 'lazy' happened in the middle of it  And cos it was apparently cool to hate on Deano at that time.


Ugh, don't even get me started on that god damn podcast. How much sheep instantly jumped on that I can't even say. How can someone say a guy is lazy, if he cuts great promos every week and has good to great matches? Austin was probably drunk and also wanted to make a controversy since the podcast was boring, because Dean is laid back and relaxed in real life. He probably wanted to just stir shit because everybody always says that EVERYTHING is sooo exciting. And Dean was like: "hey, that was okay, that was nice I guess, and the Brock match sucked btw". So Austin wanted to create a confrontation, he was talking out of his ass, and everyone bought it.


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## The Main Headliner (Mar 5, 2009)

Finally saw it, great move, and great timing. Instant top heel on Raw. Should be an emotional feud if done right.


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## Mr.Amazing5441 (Jun 20, 2015)

Have Brock and Braun end in a draw with no one winning the title. Have a tournament thay convludes at Survivor Series. Mcintyre screws Braun over, Brock is screwed over by some other part timer. Ambrose wins the title. Rollins wins the rumble. There is your universal title match. If it doesnt main event its whatever, but its about time Rollins and Ambrose are in world title scene again other than Braun and Brock.

I am torn though because I would love to see Ambrose and Rollins have a proper feud over the title but this feud now is bigger and deeper than the title. Its personal. 

I guess if Ambrose doesnt win and go to Mania with it, its ok as long as Ambrose and Rollins continue delivering but I atleast want a world title run during this heel run.


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## Shenroe (Jul 18, 2013)

kristie wilson said:


> i do too. I would love for him to be universal champion.


He will. It's a matter of months, if not weeks..


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## charsetutf (Jul 23, 2018)

Shenroe said:


> He will. It's a matter of months, if not weeks..


I love the optimism, but what makes you think this will happen? You think they will actually have him beat Brock for the title? Not a chance.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

charsetutf said:


> I love the optimism, but what makes you think this will happen? You think they will actually have him beat Brock for the title? Not a chance.



I'm not sure how legit this. But Bryan Alvarez said this the other day..

http://nodq.com/news/542341654.shtml


I'm guessing if Dean does get the title. It will be in some multi-man title match.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Look, as much as would Ambrose vs. Rollins for the main title at WM 35, I'm not buying into that for a second they would be the main event for the Universal Title. Hell, I'm not even convinced this will go all the way until Mania.


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## ♥ambrollinsreigns♥ (Jul 24, 2016)

A heel is who he is inside and out of the ring. This is just who he is. I've seen Dean outside walking around downtown, randomly before, before Raw and he just walks around with this angry look on his face, avoiding any fans and looking very pissed off. It's like he eats, sleeps and breaths heel. Lol


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## charsetutf (Jul 23, 2018)

imthegame19 said:


> I'm not sure how legit this. But Bryan Alvarez said this the other day..
> 
> http://nodq.com/news/542341654.shtml
> 
> ...


That's not inside info, that's just his prediction.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

TD Stinger said:


> Look, as much as would Ambrose vs. Rollins for the main title at WM 35, I'm not buying into that for a second they would be the main event for the Universal Title. Hell, I'm not even convinced this will go all the way until Mania.


If they were gonna wrestle at Mania. They would stop the current feud from happening from the time being. Considering Seth is in Crown Jewel Tournament and Survivor Series is gonna be a big Tag Match. They could have them feuding next few weeks. Then push them in different directions. Then go back to they're say come March.



charsetutf said:


> That's not inside info, that's just his prediction.


It also makes sense. What else you gonna do on Raw with Reigns gone? The Ambrose/Rollins feud is a proven winner and this Ambrose being the heel this time around keeps it fresh. Considering Survivor Series is likely to be Team Angle vs Team Corbin. It would be silly to waste Ambrose/Rollins feud on Raw or even TLC. They could easily have someone go after Rollins IC title and have Ambrose go after Universal Title to keep them apart. 


If it's not Ambrose/Rollins what else could it be? Lashley/Lesnar, Braun/Lashley? Personally Ambrose/Rollins sounds better to me then Lashley and if Drew is feuding with Braun now. He's probably going to lose the feud. So him in the top match at Mania doesn't seem likely. So it makes sense to plan for Rollins/Ambrose and if Reigns can somehow make it back for Mania. You can toss him in the match. So makes perfect sense.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Okay like I feared WWE has nothing prepared Ambrose didn't even promo lol,they really rushed this maybe originally they planned to start this heel turn in a couple of months more, hope next week they have something, it was a very generic follow up.


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## DGenerationMC (Jan 30, 2011)

I could see Dean beating Braun for the title after some McIntyre or Lashley interference. As for stretching the Rollins feud to WM, the only PPV they absolutely have to face off at beforehand is TLC. SSeries is brand warfare, Rumble and Chamber are what they are. Ambrose putting Seth on the shelf a few weeks, maybe even for a month is a plausible way to buy time.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

DGenerationMC said:


> I could see Dean beating Braun for the title after some McIntyre or Lashley interference. As for stretching the Rollins feud to WM, the only PPV they absolutely have to face off at beforehand is TLC. SSeries is brand warfare, Rumble and Chamber are what they are. Ambrose putting Seth on the shelf a few weeks, maybe even for a month is a plausible way to by time.


Since Dean didn't say anything or add to the feud. It could easily be pushed aside for a while. What if Lashley gets beat by Rollins in Crown Jewel Tournament. Which causes him to turn his attention on Rollins instead of Balor for IC title. Then Dean goes on to win Universal Title at say TLC. With it say Braun vs Balor vs Drew vs Dean(which could be Team Raw with Angle or Corbin at Survivor Series. With Seth in champ vs champ match vs Nakumara) and they also do Rollins vs Lashley on that TLC show. 



Then they do Braun/Dean at Royal Rumble and Dean wins after Drew inference on Braun. With Rollins losing his IC title to Lashley in that feud. But winning number one contender match for Mania. There's really a way to save both Dean/Rollins and Braun/Drew feud to Mania. If you mix things up in between.


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## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

Brodus Clay said:


> Okay like I feared WWE has nothing prepared Ambrose didn't even promo lol,they really rushed this maybe originally they planned to start this heel turn in a couple of months more, hope next week they have something, it was a very generic follow up.


I think they did fine yesterday. It was a let down hype wise but remember, this is going to be a LOOOOONG feud. Wrestlemania build isn’t until February. They’re adding layers Rn for something. I typically don’t give WWE much credit on anything but this time I could legitimately tell the time route they have decided go with this. They advertised it the entire night, they def have it closer to the top of the list. Just be patient.

Another note, Ambrose did TRY to talk, Seth just interrupted him when he opened his mouth to try to say something and Seth visibly started pissing him off so he decided not to, which is good. It just adds more intensity and makes me more eager for Ambrose’s imminent promo.


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## #PushBrayOffACliff (Mar 22, 2016)

I can see Dean costing Seth the victory of the BITW tournament.
He's playing with Seth.He doesn't give him answers but takes the glory from him because he thinks glory is all Seth cares about.
He said "this is all you care about?!" when he threw the tag team belts to Seth last week so I imagine his plan is to cost Seth everything.
Corbin could put Seth in a match for the IC title on Monday because he will not defend it at CJ and Dean will be reason Seth will lose the title so Seth can be even more pissed at Dean and haunt him down


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## ChairShotToTheHead (Jul 22, 2018)

I had no problem with that segment last night, Rollins cut a great promo and Dean looked like a savage. I am cool with a slow build on this one


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## DoolieNoted (Dec 5, 2015)

how I feel about last night


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## -XERO- (Jan 31, 2011)

♥ambrollinsreigns♥;76347570 said:


> A heel is who he is inside and out of the ring. This is just who he is. I've seen Dean outside walking around downtown, randomly before, before Raw and he just walks around with this angry look on his face, avoiding any fans and looking very pissed off. It's like he eats, sleeps and breaths heel. Lol





-XERO- said:


> Same here, Dean.


^


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## Passing Triangles (Feb 2, 2015)

I think it was a great call on Monday.

What would be the norm?

Monday Raw begins and Dean either starts the show with his explanation, or mid-way through the show. That would have been the usual Raw thing.
The mute Dean response was right out the classic Attitude Era book of booking. Be honest...... the segment had you desperate for Dean to say something.... and now that he hasn't you're going to be glued to next Monday's show in anticipation. That's clever booking 101. 

Take your time. Have Dean do some more stuff first. A proper heel doesn't need to justify his actions to the crowd, nor his opponent, right? It's logical. 

No idea why some people aren't pleased with how they approached this. It quite literally was the best possible route, immediately.


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## TheHidden01 (Jun 24, 2008)

Lack of patience shows it's effectiveness.

Remember, Hogan wasn't even on Nitro the next night after the formation of the NWO.

As long as they do something every week, why not make this a feud to remember, with multiple classic matches, twists and turns.

Hell, if Lesnar does take the belt, this is what is going to occupy our time. 

People want good story, yet impatient after one week.

TH


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## Jbardo (Aug 29, 2010)

Of course people with no patience will have wanted Dean to cut a promo, leading into a brawl. However wwe played it well and didn’t rush anything, Ambrose looked cool standing there saying nothing and it builds up more hype for next week.


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## CenaNuff123 (Jan 26, 2014)

Why is nobody acknowledging that Renee is Dean’s wife and that she may have the answers somehow? They keep slaughtering Dean on commentary and Renee just sits there saying nothing to defend her husband.


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## Lavidavi35 (Jan 27, 2016)

CenaNuff123 said:


> Why is nobody acknowledging that Renee is Dean’s wife and that she may have the answers somehow? They keep slaughtering Dean on commentary and Renee just sits there saying nothing to defend her husband.


Because Renee has the answers they need too and why defend when they don’t understand? Dean will explain himself in due time. I’m curious on how she’ll do commentary after that, though. I hope she’s not silent for this feud just because she’s his wife.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

I would have patience if WWE rewarded me for that, I gave them the benefit of the doubt and always disappoint, you people talking like if current WWE was know for great booking lol, the follow up of the heel turn was weak they had zero material to work, it was obvious they rushed this angle.

So who watched tonight, they finally gave something to Ambrose or more lazy booking making more evident they rushed this angle?


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## Bestiswaswillbe (Dec 25, 2016)

Brodus Clay said:


> So who watched tonight, they finally gave something to Ambrose or more lazy booking making more evident they rushed this angle?


After Seth lost the handicap match to AoP and was beaten and worn down on the mat Dean came out and asked him if he "wanted to know why he turned" seth is saying "why, why!(without a mic)" and then Dean dirty deeds him without saying anything.

So yes more lazy booking that went nowhere.


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## Alphy B (May 15, 2014)

Dean should fight Rollins in a loser leaves raw match and cheat to win. From there he should take the universal title while Rollins wins the rumble and uses it as a way to get his revenge.


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## Kratosx23 (Nov 1, 2004)

Bestiswaswillbe said:


> After Seth lost the handicap match to AoP and was beaten and worn down on the mat Dean came out and asked him if he "wanted to know why he turned" seth is saying "why, why!(without a mic)" and then Dean dirty deeds him without saying anything.
> 
> So yes more lazy booking that went nowhere.


You would think it would be the simplest thing in the world to come up with a plan for someone before you turn them, but apparently not. The things we see on this product are unbelievable. A 2 year old could write better than Vince.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Bestiswaswillbe said:


> After Seth lost the handicap match to AoP and was beaten and worn down on the mat *Dean came out and asked him if he "wanted to know why he turned" seth is saying "why, why!(without a mic)" and then Dean dirty deeds him without saying anything.*
> 
> So yes more lazy booking that went nowhere.


LOL This it's why I never give WWE the benefit of the doubt, they clearly have nothing done, lets hope next week they finally have the base so it finally feels like a proper feud.


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## Now019 (Sep 4, 2018)

Please welcome to the Chris Jericho 2012 version 2.


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## Shellyrocks (Sep 28, 2017)

I really thought last night seeing it in person Dean would say why but he didn’t so annoying


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

Dean wasn't suppose to turn to Survivor Series. They did it early to get more heat on him over the Reigns news. They planned Rollins wrestling in Crown Jewel& Nakumara at Survivor Series. So they don't want to much with Dean/Seth until then. Which is why there dragging out the last few weeks and likely will next week as well. After that the feud should be red hot going towards TLC.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Alphy B said:


> Dean should fight Rollins in a loser leaves raw match and cheat to win. From there he should take the universal title while Rollins wins the rumble and uses it as a way to get his revenge.


That would be gold

...so it won't happen :vince


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

So he turned because they made him weak, generic reason but I liked the street setting and him burning the vest, still very underwhelming it also doesn't help it's a midcard feud, plus poor Ambrose got the worse time to turn, in this moment Becky making all the other stuff look meh.


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## Chelsea (Jul 26, 2018)

Dean throwing his Shield vest in the fire was heartbreaking, good heel stuff. I hope this storyline will get better after Survivor Series.


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