# Brodie Lee Vs Marko Stunt



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

He should have been punted out of the building, company, and the country last year. He should not be getting a move in on the East Hampton Polo Boys, let alone actual talent. He needs to be squashed and disappear.


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## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

The only way this is acceptable is if Brodie squashes him in 15 seconds then Luchasaurus comes out and confronts Brodie after he continues to attack Stunt, teasing Brodie/Luchasaurus. Otherwise it makes no sense.


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## Scissor Me Daddy-O!! (Apr 13, 2011)

Maybe Marko will join the dark order and we get Dark Order v Dinosaur


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## JerryMark (May 7, 2016)

stunt is utterly pointless in AEW.

luchasaurus already ha a sympathetic smaller face partner...


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Marko Stunt definitely needs to go. Enough of that shit. I understand AEW wants their comedy characters but they can do better than Marko Stunt. This should be a squash though and I think its probably just leading to Brodie Lee vs Luchasaurus. The match with Marko needs to be over as fast as it starts. This is no PAC vs Orange Cassidy type situation where I was calling for PAC to murder OC so he doesn't look weak. Both guys came out of that looking great. If Marko gets that kind of offense in on Brodie, then its a wrap for The Dark Order. They are already treading on a thin line. They had no initial crowd reaction to go off of with Brodie since he debuted in an empty arena so they have no idea if what they are doing is really working or not.


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## Mister Sinister (Aug 7, 2013)

Cool down. They don't have anyone else available for matches. But also, Stunt is going to sell it like a homicide so it's going to be entertaining.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Mister Sinister said:


> Cool down. They don't have anyone else available for matches. But also, Stunt is going to sell it like a homicide so it's going to be entertaining.


There's nothing impressive about destroying a child that anyone on this forum can put down.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Marko is not needed. But it's a little late now. Keep him outside no longer in the ring.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Mister Sinister said:


> Cool down. They don't have anyone else available for matches. But also, Stunt is going to sell it like a homicide so it's going to be entertaining.


I would disagree, Brodie would look better squashing one of the random jobbers they have had on aew dark, at least they look like fully grown men.

It's got to a point that every time stunt gets put in a match he is hurting the product because no opponent of his can be taken serious or look threatening against him and the minute they have to sell stunt's offence their character loses credibility.


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## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

It's a joke. The only person getting squashed is Brody if it lasts as long as it did with archer. If you want back and forth you use Jungle boy. I don't want to watch an annoying little child fight and survive against a guy that would kill me if I fought him. I would kill marko, yet he can survive? i'm struggling to be entertained.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Apparently all wrestling promotions (falsely) thinks they need a Hornswoggle..


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

It's not that big of a deal. Relax.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

trying to make a big deal out of it.

i dont care for it, but it really doesn’t bother me either.


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## Roman Kießling (Oct 14, 2019)

I hope lee chokeslams his useless ass out of the ring. I don't care if he dies.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

The problem with Stunt is they don't really play him as vulnerable as they should. People try to compare him to Rey, but they forget how Rey was typically booked when going up against the monsters of the roster. Rey was able to get sympathy for himself and heat on his giant opponents because he always gave you the impression of " I'd rather not be fighting Nash/Show/Kane/Lesnar, but it looks like I'm going to have to". 

Where as with Marko he comes of like the Scrappy-Doo "let me at em" little guy who is trying too hard to prove he has heart. Instead of Marko barking back at Brodie yesterday, he should've been backing up from the guardrail and mouthing about how he wanted no smoke with Brodie.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Roman Kießling said:


> I hope lee chokeslams his useless ass out of the ring. I don't care if he dies.


I’m pretty sure it’ll be this sort of thing. Don’t see the issue, it’s clearly starting a story where Marko is thick as shit and thinks he can take big guys.

it may also lead to a luchasaurus vs brodie Lee match which would be a good match at double or nothing.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> The problem with Stunt is they don't really play him as vulnerable as they should. People try to compare him to Rey, but they forget how Rey was typically booked when going up against the monsters of the roster. Rey was able to get sympathy for himself and heat on his giant opponents because he always gave you the impression of " I'd rather not be fighting Nash/Show/Kane/Lesnar, but it looks like I'm going to have to".
> 
> Where as with Marko he comes of like the Scrappy-Doo "let me at em" little guy who is trying too hard to prove he has heart. Instead of Marko barking back at Brodie yesterday, he should've been backing up from the guardrail and mouthing about how he wanted no smoke with Brodie.


like I said in previous post, maybe the story they want to show is Marko is stupid and doesn’t know when to back down? Is that not an acceptable story?


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Danielallen1410 said:


> like I said in previous post, maybe the story they want to show is Marko is stupid and doesn’t know when to back down? Is that not an acceptable story?


I mean it's a story, don't see how that helps anybody at all though lol


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

RapShepard said:


> I mean it's a story, don't see how that helps anybody at all though lol


what do you mean by help anyone?

it’s a story that may be entertaining, treating Marko a bit like scrappy do but make him get annihilated every time, then maybe one day he can overcome the odds and get some sort of fluke victory over someone with huge heat.

ofcourse this will upset the smarks who think that if he got a fluke win then it would “bury“ the heel Zzzz


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Danielallen1410 said:


> what do you mean by help anyone?
> 
> it’s a story that may be entertaining, treating Marko a bit like scrappy do but make him get annihilated every time, then maybe one day he can overcome the odds and get some sort of fluke victory over someone with huge heat.
> 
> ofcourse this will upset the smarks who think that if he got a fluke win then it would “bury“ the heel Zzzz


Because beating a stupid face who's super small doesn't really do much for the heel. Beating up Marko can certainly get heat. But you probably shouldn't portray it as if he basically talked himself into an ass kicking.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> what do you mean by help anyone?
> 
> it’s a story that may be entertaining, treating Marko a bit like scrappy do but make him get annihilated every time, then maybe one day he can overcome the odds and get some sort of fluke victory over someone with huge heat.
> 
> ofcourse this will upset the smarks who think that* if he got a fluke win then it would “bury“ the heel Zzzz*


It absolutely would. You don't need to be a filthy "smark" to see it for what it is.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Wow...people are defending this.

Remember when Archer killed Marko and then he was on TV the week after smiling like a goof? That is exactly what will happen this time too.

And for those who keep bringing up Spike Dudley: Spike is 5'8 which seems to be average these days. Marko is billed at 5'2 so he is 5 flat at best. Spike also had the attitude of lighting you on fire to beat you. Marko looks AND acts like a child, just smiling like an idiot who poses no threat to anyone.


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## Alexander_G (Mar 10, 2018)

Brodie Lee should not be facing anyone below high mid card. No clowns. He needs to be portrayed as a serious threat.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> It absolutely would. You don't need to be a filthy "smark" to see it for what it is.


over analysing everything.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> over analysing everything.


Not at all, it's simple, surface level stuff.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> Not at all, it's simple, surface level stuff.


Like I said, maybe the story is Marko is a little bloke who’s like scrappy do, thinks he can take anyone but gets battered every time. i have no problem with it. And although it “doesn’t do anything” for the big guy, it does no harm either, it is what it is.
if he body slams Brodie Lee next week then complain about it.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Like I said, maybe the story is Marko is a little bloke who’s like scrappy do, thinks he can take anyone but gets battered every time. i have no problem with it. And although it “doesn’t do anything” for the big guy, it does no harm either, it is what it is.
> if he body slams Brodie Lee next week then complain about it.


Equating Marko to a cartoon dog is pretty apt actually.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> I’m pretty sure it’ll be this sort of thing. Don’t see the issue, it’s clearly starting a story where Marko is thick as shit and thinks he can take big guys.
> 
> it may also lead to a luchasaurus vs brodie Lee match which would be a good match at double or nothing.


So his gimmick is that he's so ridiculously stupid that he ignores clear height and weight advantage and is happy to get his ass kicked by wrestlers much more experienced and powerful than him? What does that do for anyone?



Danielallen1410 said:


> like I said in previous post, maybe the story they want to show is Marko is stupid and doesn’t know when to back down? Is that not an acceptable story?


Not really? Hey this 5'1 clown thinks he's a tough guy! How is that entertaining or going to sell a PPV/Ticket?



Danielallen1410 said:


> what do you mean by help anyone?
> 
> it’s a story that may be entertaining, treating Marko a bit like scrappy do but make him get annihilated every time, then maybe one day he can overcome the odds and get some sort of fluke victory over someone with huge heat.
> 
> ofcourse this will upset the smarks who think that if he got a fluke win then it would “bury“ the heel Zzzz


1. Marko Stunt wrestling bigger guys and getting his ass kicked won't be entertaining. It legitimately looks like a grown man beating up a child and anyone who happens to come across it would think that also. When I saw AEW had signed Marko Stunt originally I legitimately thought that they had signed some kind of child. Nobody in their right mind would sit back, relax and be entertained at a massive guy beating the ever living shit out of a man that looks like a child who hasn't hit puberty yet. At least the fans of child abuse will be pleased with their Brodie Lee Vs Marko Stunt offering.

2. Marko Stunt shouldn't be getting any victory over anyone and shouldn't even be on the show. Someone posted a Spike Dudley match but even Spike has 6 inches on Marko and 30 pounds.

3. A heel losing to Marko would not only make no sense but also would absolutely kill them. Anyone doing jobs for Marko Stunt on National TV has no respect for their wrestling persona. Losing to a guy that looks like a child would kill careers.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> So his gimmick is that he's so ridiculously stupid that he ignores clear height and weight advantage and is happy to get his ass kicked by wrestlers much more experienced and powerful than him? What does that do for anyone?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so If luchasaurus came in and destroyed say mjf, then put marko on top of him for the 1,2,3 that would kill him?
come off it.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

Ok but like Brodie Lee vs Luchasaurus would be awesome


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> so If luchasaurus came in and destroyed say mjf, then put marko on top of him for the 1,2,3 that would kill him?
> come off it.


That wouldn't be a fluke win that'd be Luchasaurus kicking MJF's ass. If Marko rolled someone up or got another kind of "fluke win" it's definitely kill whoever he beats. Keep in mind this guy is the size of a very small woman...


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## JerryMark (May 7, 2016)

even a total asskicking of stunt would still hurt brodie.

anything other than a 5 second match consisting of a 1 punch KO is a burial.


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## EmbassyForever (Dec 29, 2011)

JerryMark said:


> even a total asskicking of stunt would still hurt brodie.
> 
> anything other than a 5 second match consisting of a 1 punch KO is a burial.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

EmbassyForever said:


>


He's right. If Brodie punched you, me or anyone else on this forum in the face we'd at the very least be groggy and on the floor. Majority of us knocked unconscious. I'd also suggest that most of us are much bigger than Marko...

Archer looked stupid going 3 minutes with Stunt and Brodie will also.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Like I said, maybe the story is Marko is a little bloke who’s like scrappy do, thinks he can take anyone but gets battered every time. i have no problem with it. And although it “doesn’t do anything” for the big guy, it does no harm either, it is what it is.
> if he body slams Brodie Lee next week then complain about it.


I'd argue that Archer murdering him and then having Stunt show up smiling the next week hurt Archer. Made him look weak. Of course you'll say I'm reading too much into it, but he didn't look hurt at all.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Holy shit, this company just can't fucking help themselves, can they? 

They'd already killed any interest in Brodie Lee with the awful gimmick, but now he's going to "take his time" with a dude that a serious promotion shouldn't even sanction for competition. This is like booking a hawk vs. a caterpillar and thinking it is a good idea.


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## Jazminator (Jan 9, 2018)

Some people will bitch about every little thing.

I like Marko. I’m glad he’s a part of AEW. He’s going to get slaughtered next week, but squash matches can still be entertaining to watch.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Jazminator said:


> Some people will bitch about every little thing.
> 
> I like Marko. I’m glad he’s a part of AEW. He’s going to get slaughtered next week, but squash matches can still be entertaining to watch.


This thing in particular is definitely worth bitching about though. Don't dismiss the bitching on the grounds of bitching. This is fucking stupid. 

And I think I saw someone comparing it to Spike Dudley. You can point out the logical differences there -- the psychology of Spike was a lot different to the psychology of Marko Stunt, and there's obviously the size difference -- but don't forget that when they put Spike Dudley in the main event of SmackDown it fucking TANKED. Because people couldn't buy it.

But the point of AEW isn't to make fans, so whatever. They'll get what they deserve.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Jazminator said:


> Some people will bitch about every little thing.
> 
> I like Marko. I’m glad he’s a part of AEW. He’s going to get slaughtered next week, but squash matches can still be entertaining to watch.


And some don't complain about anything and that's weird


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Wood said:


> This thing in particular is definitely worth bitching about though. Don't dismiss the bitching on the grounds of bitching. This is fucking stupid.
> 
> And I think I saw someone comparing it to Spike Dudley. You can point out the logical differences there -- the psychology of Spike was a lot different to the psychology of Marko Stunt, and there's obviously the size difference -- but don't forget that when they put Spike Dudley in the main event of SmackDown it fucking TANKED. Because people couldn't buy it.
> 
> But the point of AEW isn't to make fans, so whatever. They'll get what they deserve.


Spike was at his best when he was the small bully backed by his behemoth brothers in like 2004. Made total sense and he was a dickhead heel.

Also, what people don't seem to realise is that Spike Dudley would dwarf Marko Stunt.


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## Savage Elbow (Jun 19, 2014)

Why would Mr.  McMahon  Brodie even bother, he should just send out gimp guy #315347685885421 to squash the child


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Savage Elbow said:


> Why would Mr.  McMahon  Brodie even bother, he should just send out gimp guy #315347685885421 to squash the child


I think you just gave a few people an allergic reaction with that logic in wrestling, given how many people seem adverse to it.


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## TKO Wrestling (Jun 26, 2018)

Savage Elbow said:


> Why would Mr.  McMahon  Brodie even bother, he should just send out gimp guy #315347685885421 to squash the child


Probably because he is 6'7 295 lbs and enjoys beating the crap out of people since he is a professional wrestler and all. Sometimes things are just fun?


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## Top bins (Jul 8, 2019)

Brodie should squash in 5 seconds. It winds me up that Marko stunt is on TV and signed to a big company like that. When great talents like Jacob Fatu and Alex hammerstone are on MLW. Argh just cut the guy already.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Probably because he is 6'7 295 lbs and enjoys beating the crap out of people since he is a professional wrestler and all. Sometimes things are just fun?


Wouldn't he much prefer a challenge? I know if I was a fighter I'd want to test myself against the very best rather than someone who resembles a 14 year old.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Spike was at his best when he was the small bully backed by his behemoth brothers in like 2004. Made total sense and he was a dickhead heel.
> 
> Also, what people don't seem to realise is that Spike Dudley would dwarf Marko Stunt.


Yes by a full 16 cm 🙄


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Yes by a full 16 cm 🙄


Yeah, when we're talking about 5'8" compared to 5'2" (which is debatable), it's very noticeable. Besides that, Spike had some muscle tone, whereas Marko is built like a puny 12 year old boy; Spike was also portrayed as a psychotic little runt while Marko, again, acts like a 12 year old child with the Rugrats font on his tights and everything.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> Yeah, when we're talking about 5'8" compared to 5'2" (which is debatable), it's very noticeable. Besides that, Spike had some muscle tone, whereas Marko is built like a puny 12 year old boy; Spike was also portrayed as a psychotic little runt while Marko, again, acts like a 12 year old child with the Rugrats font on his tights and everything.


16 cm is their difference in height in real life


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> 16 cm is their difference in height in real life


Read my post.


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

The complaints regarding a jobber in AEW will never cease to amaze.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> Read my post.


I have but my response was to the post that literally said spike Dudley would dwarf him and nothing else.

I quoted your response to my response to chip


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> I have but my response was to the post that literally said spike Dudley would dwarf him and nothing else.


Not sure why you quoted me then. But yes, 5'8" does indeed dwarf 5'2" (16 cm = 6.3 inches)


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> Not sure why you quoted me then. But yes, 5'8" does indeed dwarf 5'2" (16 cm = 6.3 inches)


Half a ruler length is not dwarfing someone


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Half a ruler length is not dwarfing someone


We're talking about the difference between an average adult male and a middle school child.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

TKO Wrestling said:


> Probably because he is 6'7 295 lbs and enjoys beating the crap out of people since he is a professional wrestler and all. Sometimes things are just fun?


Yes, sometimes things are indeed just fun. This is just dumb. Again, if he kills Marko and that actually leads to him being hurt and off TV until after Double or Nothing, OK. If he ends up being back the next week like he did with Archer jumping around like a goof then hell no. If killing Marko leads to an actual feud with Jungle Boy and/or Luchasaurus it could work.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Half a ruler length is not dwarfing someone


6 inches is a significant size advantage. For example a guy that is 5'10 would look significantly smaller in comparison to a guy who is 6'4. If Spike and Marko took a photo together Spike would be much bigger.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> 6 inches is a significant size advantage. For example a guy that is 5'10 would look significantly smaller in comparison to a guy who is 6'4. If Spike and Marko took a photo together Spike would be much bigger.


Exactly. Look at HHH who is billed at 6'4 and Undertaker at 6'10. Pretty obvious difference. And just like that, it is much more obvious at the extremes when you are one of the few walking around that tall or that short. And not only height matters, but build. Not only is Marko the height of a child, he is built like a child. Mysterio is also very short, but he is built and has a way to present himself as larger than he would come across otherwise.


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## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

Many of us had high hopes for aew but what a trainwreck it is.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

After Archer destroyed Stunt and he returned the next week as if nothing happened, what's Lee going to have to do to even hurt Stunt? Will they fuck it up again?

Instead of mocking people's opinions, can someone explain why this match is even necessary?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> After Archer destroyed Stunt and he returned the next week as if nothing happened, what's Lee going to have to do to even hurt Stunt? Will they fuck it up again?
> 
> Instead of mocking people's opinions, can someone explain why this match is even necessary?


The only way they can salvage this is to have Brodie squash him, then get his minions to drag him off somewhere and let his new initiate or whoever prove himself by coming as close to murdering him as possible. That gets the Dark Order major heat with Jungleboy and Luchasaurus. Not perfect but at least it is something. It also removes Marko from our TV screens for awhile.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Definition of Technician said:


> The complaints regarding a jobber in AEW will never cease to amaze.


I am yet to hear one psychologically sound reason that a wrestling promotion would go out of their way to feature a jobber in a significantly promoted role. It makes no sense. The only people it makes sense to are those conditioned by the WWE to accept James Ellsworth as a card position.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> I am yet to hear one psychologically sound reason that a wrestling promotion would go out of their way to feature a jobber in a significantly promoted role. It makes no sense. The only people it makes sense to are those conditioned by the WWE to accept James Ellsworth as a card position.


if Brodie lee does anything but squash him it’s an issue.

if he squashes him as he will, then it’s not even worth a discussion.

its jut filler during the pandemic. Simple as that.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

It doesn't matter how annihilated he gets, he will still be back next week like nothing happened.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

the_flock said:


> It doesn't matter how annihilated he gets, he will still be back next week like nothing happened.


he didn’t get injured in the archer match, he just got beaten easily, there was no reason for him to be off tv the following week, archer just overpowered and beat him comfortably, where did they make out marko had a serious injury?

since the archer match he’s been stood in the crowd, he’s not come back wrestling.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> he didn’t get injured in the archer match, he just got beaten easily, there was no reason for him to be off tv the following week, archer just overpowered and beat him comfortably, where did they make out marko had a serious injury?
> 
> since the archer match he’s been stood in the crowd, he’s not come back wrestling.


And there is the issue. If Archer threw me around, tossed me to the floor and then launched me into the crowd I'd be in hospital. Marko returns next week and is fine meaning either Marko is superhuman or Archer is weak as piss.


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## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> And there is the issue. If Archer threw me around, tossed me to the floor and then launched me into the crowd I'd be in hospital. Marko returns next week and is fine meaning either Marko is superhuman or Archer is weak as piss.


It's wrestling.

If Drew McIntyre performed a running drop kick on your face you would be in hospital. Funnily enough they don't run a storyline every time he hits somebody with a claymore that his opponent went to hospital.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> he didn’t get injured in the archer match, he just got beaten easily, there was no reason for him to be off tv the following week, archer just overpowered and beat him comfortably, where did they make out marko had a serious injury?
> 
> since the archer match he’s been stood in the crowd, he’s not come back wrestling.


Dude, come on.. This is a fucking terrible opinion


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jagaver said:


> It's wrestling.
> 
> If Drew McIntyre performed a running drop kick on your face you would be in hospital. Funnily enough they don't run a storyline every time he hits somebody with a claymore that his opponent went to hospital.


Ah the old "Wrestling is fake" argument...

It's much easier to believe that a big jacked up fighter like a Brock Lesnar or whoever is getting around in the WWE main event scene today could take a running drop kick from Drew McIntyre whilst the average person (Such as myself) would end up in hospital. That's part of a wrestlers mystique that they are these guys who are massively tough and that they train regularly for anything an opponent might throw at them and that's usually reflected by how they look and their actions.

It ruins the illusion of it all when Marko even turns up on TV let alone Archer destroying him for 2 minutes and Marko getting a comeback on him. I can overlook small things like Marko not going to hospital but I can't overlook him standing around in the crowd a week later trying to get into a fight with another wrestler who is just as big. Marko should be scared shitless of all big wrestlers after the ass kicking Archer gave him and he should've been off TV for at least one episode. Instead we have him getting into a mini feud with Brodie Lee who is almost as big as Archer. 

All this says is that Marko got his ass kicked but it wasn't too bad because he's happy to get it kicked again. It's yet another massive hole in an AEW story line that people will defend because it's AEW.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> And there is the issue. If Archer threw me around, tossed me to the floor and then launched me into the crowd I'd be in hospital. Marko returns next week and is fine meaning either Marko is superhuman or Archer is weak as piss.


It’s wrestling mate, if any human being got punched in the face they’d have an instant black eye.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Dude, come on.. This is a fucking terrible opinion


Why? Where did they say he suffered injuries that meant he wasnt capable of standing in the crowd?


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Ah the old "Wrestling is fake" argument...
> 
> It's much easier to believe that a big jacked up fighter like a Brock Lesnar or whoever is getting around in the WWE main event scene today could take a running drop kick from Drew McIntyre whilst the average person (Such as myself) would end up in hospital. That's part of a wrestlers mystique that they are these guys who are massively tough and that they train regularly for anything an opponent might throw at them and that's usually reflected by how they look and their actions.
> 
> ...


he should be shit scared but he’s not, that’s probably the angle they are playing with him, a bit like scrappy do.

for me this is just a big deal out of nothing.

does Marco stunt entertain me... no

would I miss him if he was gone....no

has anything he’s done annoyed me? no

has anything he’s done lead me to over analyse it? no

it is what it is, he was destroyed by archer, now same will happen With Brodie Lee, neither match interested or interests me, but it’s not a big deal to me unless you take the business so seriously that you over analyse it.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> It’s wrestling mate, if any human being got punched in the face they’d have an instant black eye.


That isn't true though. Look at professional boxers and MMA fighters who at times repeatedly get punched in the face and don't always show signs of it. I think this argument is silly anyway wrestling is a work and you can't really expect guys to go and punch themselves in the face and give one another black eyes every night. What we can expect is a little bit of realism with our wrestling product and that means selling an ass kicking. It wouldn't have taken much you could've had Marko sitting ringside looking angry/upset with a neck brace or a bandage or whatever and have Tony S simply say "Marko Stunt is back this week after being given the thumbs up by the doctor to return to AEW"

It helps make things more realistic AND get Archer over.



Danielallen1410 said:


> Why? Where did they say he suffered injuries that meant he wasnt capable of standing in the crowd?


They didn't and that's the issue. Archer really handed Stunt his ass and Stunt has barely sold it. It makes Archer look weak when really they're trying to portray him as strong and dangerous.



Danielallen1410 said:


> he should be shit scared but he’s not, that’s probably the angle they are playing with him, a bit like scrappy do.
> 
> for me this is just a big deal out of nothing.
> 
> ...


You're pretty much saying he's pointless in a nice way which I agree with. Archer and Brodie kicking the shit out of Marko does nothing for them and to be honest probably makes them look like pussies and/or weak for even accepting a match with a guy resembling a 14 year old.

He isn't worth having on the roster yet he still remains and is on TV in some capacity most weeks. It's baffling.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

People continue to compare Marko to a potential Scrappy Doo as justification, but do these people not realize that the Scrappy Doo character was pretty much universally panned? You may as well be propping him up with Cousin Oliver comparisons at that point.


----------



## Jagaver (Aug 11, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's much easier to believe that a big jacked up fighter like a Brock Lesnar or whoever is getting around in the WWE main event scene today could take a running drop kick from Drew McIntyre whilst the average person (Such as myself) would end up in hospital. That's part of a wrestlers mystique that they are these guys who are massively tough and that they train regularly for anything an opponent might throw at them and that's usually reflected by how they look and their actions.
> 
> It ruins the illusion of it all when Marko even turns up on TV let alone Archer destroying him for 2 minutes and Marko getting a comeback on him.


Ah well, I can see how that'd suck for you if guys have to look like Brock Lesnar otherwise you struggle to imagine them not going to hospital. I can see how that'd ruin a show for you if that's how you felt.

I guess the point is that we all have to suspend disbelief to some extent to enjoy wrestling, and it's just a case of where you are able or prepared to draw the line. You're ok with an irish whip I assume (as an example of a weird unrealistic wrestling thing), but Marko Stunt is over the line for you, fair enough, unlucky for you I guess.

Until I read it on here the squash of Marko and his subsequent reappearance two weeks later really had not occurred to me as something that could annoy anybody. I feel a bit sad for you not being able to relax and enjoy the show, but it is what it is I guess.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jagaver said:


> Ah well, I can see how that'd suck for you if guys have to look like Brock Lesnar otherwise you struggle to imagine them not going to hospital. I can see how that'd ruin a show for you if that's how you felt.
> 
> I guess the point is that we all have to suspend disbelief to some extent to enjoy wrestling, and it's just a case of where you are able or prepared to draw the line. You're ok with an irish whip I assume (as an example of a weird unrealistic wrestling thing), but Marko Stunt is over the line for you, fair enough, unlucky for you I guess.
> 
> Until I read it on here the squash of Marko and his subsequent reappearance two weeks later really had not occurred to me as something that could annoy anybody. I feel a bit sad for you not being able to relax and enjoy the show, but it is what it is I guess.


You're making many assumptions.

First, not every guy has to look like Brock Lesnar I'm just giving an example. Someone like Bray Wyatt looks like they could take a hit, Strowman looks like he could take a hit, even a smaller guy like Buddy Murphy seems like he'd be able to take a hit. They all look like tough guys, they all have some size to them whether it's ripped muscle or just bulky looks, they all look like guys that could potentially win a fight in an alley or inside a wrestling ring. Meanwhile, Marko looks like a 14 year old boy not only facially but also body wise. He has not one hint of a muscle, doesn't look like he could take a hit and would probably be out of a hypothetical bar fight within the first 5 seconds.

Second, I'm okay to suspend disbelief but you're correct that Marko is over the line. There are way too many things that go against him for him to be an acceptable character on a professional wrestling show.

Third, I'm able to sit back and enjoy the show when my immersion isn't ruined by stupid things which is sometimes difficult on an AEW show especially when they hit you over the head 4-5 times a show that "Wrestling is fake and you have to laugh at our silly characters". It's just like in the movies if you were watching a drama and you had unwanted comedy characters, constant winks to the camera and saw characters that were all over the place throughout the film you'd be confused and struggle to enjoy it also.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

This is the only type of match Stunt should be in.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> That isn't true though. Look at professional boxers and MMA fighters who at times repeatedly get punched in the face and don't always show signs of it. I think this argument is silly anyway wrestling is a work and you can't really expect guys to go and punch themselves in the face and give one another black eyes every night. What we can expect is a little bit of realism with our wrestling product and that means selling an ass kicking. It wouldn't have taken much you could've had Marko sitting ringside looking angry/upset with a neck brace or a bandage or whatever and have Tony S simply say "Marko Stunt is back this week after being given the thumbs up by the doctor to return to AEW"
> 
> It helps make things more realistic AND get Archer over.
> 
> ...


I was listening to the WhatCulture podcast today.

they said something I hadn’t thought of, Brodie Lee is playing a version of mr mcMahon , (I don’t like this by the way but that’s not the subject here)....... I his vignette with Preston Vance he was asking all about size in a not so subtle away digging at Vince for liking big guys...... he looks at Marko stunt and is disgusted by this little fella in a wrestling company so wants to make an example of him.

they said this as if this was a given that it was the story, they weren’t saying it as though they’d just thought of it, it was as if everyone knew that was the story.... I’d never thought of it like that at all.

as for archer, I don’t think anyone sees him as weak.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Jagaver said:


> Ah well, I can see how that'd suck for you if guys have to look like Brock Lesnar otherwise you struggle to imagine them not going to hospital. I can see how that'd ruin a show for you if that's how you felt.
> 
> I guess the point is that we all have to suspend disbelief to some extent to enjoy wrestling, and it's just a case of where you are able or prepared to draw the line. You're ok with an irish whip I assume (as an example of a weird unrealistic wrestling thing), but Marko Stunt is over the line for you, fair enough, unlucky for you I guess.
> 
> Until I read it on here the squash of Marko and his subsequent reappearance two weeks later really had not occurred to me as something that could annoy anybody. I feel a bit sad for you not being able to relax and enjoy the show, but it is what it is I guess.


totally agree. Im making justifications as I’ve been drawn into it, but to be totally honest I didn’t think it neefed one, it is what it is, I don’t have much of an opinion on it either way or at least I didn’t think anything of it until the negative over thinkers in here brought it up.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

More whining about Stunt? Yawn.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Danielallen1410 said:


> if Brodie lee does anything but squash him it’s an issue.
> 
> if he squashes him as he will, then it’s not even worth a discussion.
> 
> its jut filler during the pandemic. Simple as that.


Lol, imagine just dismissing criticisms with the justification that it is "filler" in a world where people have Netflix on even their phones, and can go and watch an entire back catalogue of well-made films and television shows. That's what people are doing. AEW's job is to produce compelling content. If they are marketing "filler" to people? They're not doing their jobs. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> More whining about Stunt? Yawn.


More dismissal of valid criticisms without an actual point. You do realize this is closer to trolling than what the AEW criticis do, don't you? 

People are going to make the completely valid point that it's fucking stupid a wrestling promotion promotes wrestling matches with this guy that for some reason is allowed to be a wrestler until they stop fucking doing the stupid thing. People don't have to grin and eat the plate of shit people put in front of them. Some people have the personal integrity to say "No, this is a plate of shit -- I'm not going to eat it." Yawn.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> More whining about Stunt? Yawn.


If we were still just criticizing how they used Stunt months ago you might have half a point. But they keep doing new dumb nonsensical stuff with him which warrants new valid criticism.

Fan feedback works if enough people make their voices heard. If you like illogical cartoon play wrestling, that is fine. Just make some threads about how AEW should be increasing the silliness, not decreasing. We will keep pushing for more of a believable presentation.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Lheurch said:


> If you like illogical cartoon play wrestling, that is fine. Just make some threads about how AEW should be increasing the silliness, not decreasing. We will keep pushing for more of a believable presentation.


Interestingly enough I don't think I've ever seen a thread in this section saying AEW should increase the silliness or threads about how awesome silly comedy wrestling is. I think the AEW hardcores recognise it's dumb but feel the need to defend it for whatever reason.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

What did Archer do that should have injured Marko? I really don’t see anything, and I am not above complaining about dumb shit. I may have not been paying full attention to the match, but I really don’t remember anything being so vicious that it would require someone selling the attack longer than a week. The chokeslam/throw from the apron? The guys outside the ring made sure to catch Marko and break his fall.

Am I missing something, other than we don’t like Marko? Lol


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Interestingly enough I don't think I've ever seen a thread in this section saying AEW should increase the silliness or threads about how awesome silly comedy wrestling is. I think the AEW hardcores recognise it's dumb but feel the need to defend it for whatever reason.


It is also interesting to me how several people here complain when we criticize dumb stuff like Marko, OC, etc, but then go on themselves to criticize how dumb the Dark Order is, especially a few months ago. It is like there is some secret list somewhere of acceptable and non-acceptable things to criticize.

"Wow you guys still whining about Marko?"

Two minutes later

"The Dark Order is some of the most cringe stuff I have ever seen."


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> What did Archer do that should have injured Marko? I really don’t see anything, and I am not above complaining about dumb shit. I may have not been paying full attention to the match, but I really don’t remember anything being so vicious that it would require someone selling the attack longer than a week. The chokeslam/throw from the apron? The guys outside the ring made sure to catch Marko and break his fall.
> 
> Am I missing something, other than we don’t like Marko? Lol


Would have been nice to see him holding his ribs or...I dunno...at least look a LITTLE intimidated the next week when Archer came out. Instead he was just jumping around like a goof who had wrestled in a padded room the previous week. I would consider something like that the absolute bare minimum they should have done to make Archer look like a legit threat.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Interestingly enough I don't think I've ever seen a thread in this section saying AEW should increase the silliness or threads about how awesome silly comedy wrestling is. I think the AEW hardcores recognise it's dumb but feel the need to defend it for whatever reason.


It really struck me as interesting during a recent "Stuff you are most excited about in AEW" thread that the stuff that kept coming up was the stuff that even gets praise from critics, Jericho, Moxley, MJF, Cody, etc. It was the stuff that even I'm like "Yeah, that's the good shit." Kenny Omega didn't even come up that much. A few people said "Kenny Omega in the ring," but it was surprisingly sporadic. I know that was supposed to be a "positivity thread," but it really kind of made me realize that even the AEW apologists recognize that the good shit is so much better than the bad shit. 

So fucking do more of that! You don't _need_ the Marko Stunt stuff. If it goes away, no one misses it. No one misses Joey Janela or Riho as champion (even if you didn't mind her or whatever).If Brodie Lee started squashing Shawn Spears, no one would be here saying "You know who I really want to see him squash though? Marko Stunt." 



bdon said:


> What did Archer do that should have injured Marko? I really don’t see anything, and I am not above complaining about dumb shit. I may have not been paying full attention to the match, but I really don’t remember anything being so vicious that it would require someone selling the attack longer than a week. The chokeslam/throw from the apron? The guys outside the ring made sure to catch Marko and break his fall.
> 
> Am I missing something, other than we don’t like Marko? Lol


On the face of it, that Marko Stunt was willing to fight Archer no-sold him. It also looks terrible that Marko Stunt got his ass kicked and doesn't have PTSD from it or something. He shouldn't _want_ to do this anymore. He should be scarred and never want to get into a wrestling ring again. Marko's "plucky" attitude makes Marko look "good," which is the exact opposite of what a squash is trying to achieve. 

And that's what I wish AEW would ask themselves more often. "Who looks good here?" Does anyone look good beating up Marko Stunt. No one looks tough. The whole point of a squash is to make one guy look good. Absolutely nothing is achieved by having Archer or Lee stomp the shit out of Marko for even a second. I think danielallen called it "filler." It actually is filler in the most literal sense. A squash match doesn't have to be, but this is a total waste of time _at best_, but worse than that it's counterproductive.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> What did Archer do that should have injured Marko? I really don’t see anything, and I am not above complaining about dumb shit. I may have not been paying full attention to the match, but I really don’t remember anything being so vicious that it would require someone selling the attack longer than a week. The chokeslam/throw from the apron? The guys outside the ring made sure to catch Marko and break his fall.
> 
> Am I missing something, other than we don’t like Marko? Lol


If you're 5'2 and don't have a hint of muscle a throw to the floor would surely cause you at least some minor injuries, someone the size of Hoyt clotheslining you in the throat would cause at least minor injuries also. Archer hit so many moves on the guy including his finish (Twice?) and tossed him from the ring to the floor (Which was sold like Marko was dead) and the next week it's shrugged off and he's fine.

As I said before that'd probably result in a hospitalisation but AEW doesn't have to go in that direction. Marko sitting there looking upset/angry about it and selling like he's hurt with Tony Schiavone touching on Marko visiting the doctor would've been absolutely fine. I also agree with Lheurch's post above saying that Marko should've been intimidated by Archer and should be intimidated by Brodie Lee. He should want absolutely none of getting his ass kicked by another big guy due to how savage the Archer beatdown was but instead he's actively getting in Brodie's face and challenging him to fights.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

So...you’re upset that he doesn’t act afraid? You need to meet the town drunk. He’s never won a single fight, but he’s in a fight almost every weekend and even had his jaw wired shut 6 years ago. Didn’t stop him from wanting to fight anyone and everyone.

Again, I don’t see how a clothesline is going to injure anyone for a week. Landing on everyone when launched out of the ring isn’t going to hurt anymore than a flip out of the ring onto your opponent.

So, I’ll agree that I’d prefer Marko play the scared victim card, but he isn’t, which while stupid is a fact of life: there are weak idiots who don’t understand they can’t win this fight.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> So...you’re upset that he doesn’t act afraid? You need to meet the town drunk. He’s never won a single fight, but he’s in a fight almost every weekend and even had his jaw wired shut 6 years ago. Didn’t stop him from wanting to fight anyone and everyone.
> 
> Again, I don’t see how a clothesline is going to injure anyone for a week. Landing on everyone when launched out of the ring isn’t going to hurt anymore than a flip out of the ring onto your opponent.
> 
> So, I’ll agree that I’d prefer Marko play the scared victim card, but he isn’t, which while stupid is a fact of life: there are weak idiots who don’t understand they can’t win this fight.


Even the town drunk backs off from someone with a huge size and experience advantage. Reality is why the clothesline would injure someone. If I went out into my front yard and clotheslined the first 14 year old I saw full force he'd probably wind up having to visit the doctor. Archer is a shitload bigger and stronger than me so a clothesline from him to someone resembling a 14 year old should be a knockout blow as should most moves that he does to someone like Stunt.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> So...you’re upset that he doesn’t act afraid? You need to meet the town drunk. He’s never won a single fight, but he’s in a fight almost every weekend and even had his jaw wired shut 6 years ago. Didn’t stop him from wanting to fight anyone and everyone.
> 
> Again, I don’t see how a clothesline is going to injure anyone for a week. Landing on everyone when launched out of the ring isn’t going to hurt anymore than a flip out of the ring onto your opponent.
> 
> So, I’ll agree that I’d prefer Marko play the scared victim card, but he isn’t, which while stupid is a fact of life: there are weak idiots who don’t understand they can’t win this fight.


Marko Stunt is not a town drunk. Marko Stunt is a licensed competitive wrestler (in kayfabe). If he got his ass kicked for mouthing off at the pub, that would be one thing. He's signing up to professional wrestling matches to fight other professional wrestlers. If the "town drunk" signed up to AEW and wanted to fight everybody and AEW let it happen, that would be stupid too. Adam Page is getting...borderline close to that. 

I think the whole injury thing is a reasonable but moot point. He shouldn't be in there. You don't need to go as far as to discuss whether or not he would still be hurt a week later. It's philosophically and logically flawed to do Marko Stunt vs. anyone in the first place. But, to play along, if Marko Stunt was really beat into the ground and broke his jaw, got his nose dislodged, his ribs cracked and collar-bone split, he'd be out for months let alone a week.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Psychologically it is stupid for Marko to want to fight these big burly bastards. That doesn’t change the fact that there are idiots who DO that every day in this world.

The injury stuff, that argument falls on its face for me. And I can’t stand Marko being in matches with anyone, let alone those two, so that part of the equation does resonate. If it leads to something, then that’s fine. If not, then I’m with you. What was the point?

But everyone crying that he should be injured is silly to me.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

bdon said:


> Psychologically it is stupid for Marko to want to fight these big burly bastards. That doesn’t change the fact that there are idiots who DO that every day in this world.
> 
> The injury stuff, that argument falls on its face for me. And I can’t stand Marko being in matches with anyone, let alone those two, so that part of the equation does resonate. If it leads to something, then that’s fine. If not, then I’m with you. What was the point?
> 
> But everyone crying that he should be injured is silly to me.


But they aren't sanctioned fights by a wrestling promotion. That's the key. I'm not saying there aren't any masochists -- I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense to promote one of this size and at this level in a wrestling promotion.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

bdon said:


> Psychologically it is stupid for Marko to want to fight these big burly bastards. That doesn’t change the fact that there are idiots who DO that every day in this world.
> 
> The injury stuff, that argument falls on its face for me. And I can’t stand Marko being in matches with anyone, let alone those two, so that part of the equation does resonate. If it leads to something, then that’s fine. If not, then I’m with you. What was the point?
> 
> But everyone crying that he should be injured is silly to me.


I do not think any of us are saying what Archer did looked like he should be dead, but it should have done something to make him sell. I mean, this is basic psychology. Even if his ribs or whatever had healed mostly over a week, just seeing Archer again should be enough for him to grab his ribs in remembrance of that beating. And yeah, if Archer did what he did to a 12 year old child, I bet at least a doctor checkup with something turning out to be bruised would come out of it. At least in kayfabe it absolutely should anyway.

Instead our take away is: even the weakest person on our roster is there the next week jumping around after taking a few big moves from our debuting monster.

Separately, he SHOULD have done something to really take Marko out. That puts him over as a destroyer and sets up a feud with an actual adult who decides they need to try and take this monster out.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> If we were still just criticizing how they used Stunt months ago you might have half a point. But they keep doing new dumb nonsensical stuff with him which warrants new valid criticism.
> 
> Fan feedback works if enough people make their voices heard. If you like illogical cartoon play wrestling, that is fine. Just make some threads about how AEW should be increasing the silliness, not decreasing. We will keep pushing for more of a believable presentation.


Are you making your voices heard to Tony and the elite though? If not then what you said is null and void. 

Also: What are they doing with stunt now that they weren't doing before?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Are you making your voices heard to Tony and the elite though? If not then what you said is null and void.
> 
> Also: What are they doing with stunt now that they weren't doing before?


It is pretty clear they are active on social media other than the Bucks because of the negative reaction they got. Tony goes back and forth on Twitter with people. He seems to be managing his own account, not some corporate marketing person. The only way to ensure nothing changes is to stay silent and let the loud neckbeards who love anything they would present even if it was OC coming out of a bathroom...oh wait we already had that happen.

They keep presenting him as someone other than a child. It is the cumulative effect at this point. Being in a tag match because Luchasaurus was hurt was dumb enough, but holding your world champ down for a couple seconds? Come on. And now you have a giant debuting monster beat him and he cannot sell even a minor injury for that? Not even a little bit of fear? So yes, it has gotten worse.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Thats sure to draw in viewers. Why even bother having a match. Why not Marko vs a gimp. and a brodie promo. I wish the whole dark order shit would be scrapped altogether already.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> Why? Where did they say he suffered injuries that meant he wasnt capable of standing in the crowd?


He was brutalized and thrown into the crowd. The fact that he didn't suffer any injuries means the little shit is made of steel and that's ridiculous. Not only that, how soft must Archer be for Stunt to not even need a week off?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

The Wood said:


> More dismissal of valid criticisms without an actual point. You do realize this is closer to trolling than what the AEW criticis do, don't you?
> 
> People are going to make the completely valid point that it's fucking stupid a wrestling promotion promotes wrestling matches with this guy that for some reason is allowed to be a wrestler until they stop fucking doing the stupid thing. People don't have to grin and eat the plate of shit people put in front of them. Some people have the personal integrity to say "No, this is a plate of shit -- I'm not going to eat it." Yawn.


Let me make something clear to you. You don't have to like anything, you can critique any and everything about AEW all you fucking want and it's okay with me. Don't sit here and act like I'm trying to silence you or trying to dictate what you can and can't say about AEW because that's not what I'm saying or doing. The thing is is that you and some other posters here are getting very redundant in your bitching about Marko Stunt. 

We get it. You don't think Marko Stunt shouldn't be wrestling, you think He's too small, you think it's not believable, WE FUCKING GET IT! It's the same shit over and over and over and over again. Clearly he's not going anywhere, clearly they're going to keep on using him. All you can do at this point is talk to Tony and The Elite about it and if they don't listen then just do something else when he comes on. But this constant bitching about him on this forum is getting old. Have some personal responsibility to stop bitching about the damn plate of shit and ORDER SOMETHING ELSE ON THE FUCKING MENU! It's not that hard. 

Oh and by the way: There's some shit I don't like about AEW as well but I don't bitch about it constantly. I just say my peace accordingly and enjoy what I like about the promotion. So you can miss me with that NOONE CAN SAY ANYTHING BAD ABOUT AEW LOLZ!!!! 

So Like I said before: Yawn.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> It is pretty clear they are active on social media other than the Bucks because of the negative reaction they got. Tony goes back and forth on Twitter with people. He seems to be managing his own account, not some corporate marketing person. The only way to ensure nothing changes is to stay silent and let the loud neckbeards who love anything they would present even if it was OC coming out of a bathroom...oh wait we already had that happen.
> 
> They keep presenting him as someone other than a child. It is the cumulative effect at this point. Being in a tag match because Luchasaurus was hurt was dumb enough, but holding your world champ down for a couple seconds? Come on. And now you have a giant debuting monster beat him and he cannot sell even a minor injury for that? Not even a little bit of fear? So yes, it has gotten worse.


Okay so they're active on Twitter, Good. Talk to them about Marko Stunt.

So...they're not doing anything different with him. Gotcha.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Psychologically it is stupid for Marko to want to fight these big burly bastards. That doesn’t change the fact that there are idiots who DO that every day in this world.
> 
> The injury stuff, that argument falls on its face for me. And I can’t stand Marko being in matches with anyone, let alone those two, so that part of the equation does resonate. If it leads to something, then that’s fine. If not, then I’m with you. What was the point?
> 
> But everyone crying that he should be injured is silly to me.


Can I get some videos of some legit 5 footers fighting someone that is 6'8, 276lb without sustaining some sort of injury? Justifying any of this is making you look silly, mate. He should have been sore at the very least, not trying to wind up Brodie Lee the next week. 

Also has anyone else noticed that the jobbers have been showing up in the crowd minutes after being squashed in the ring? It's not just Marko Stunt.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Okay so they're active on Twitter, Good. Talk to them about Marko Stunt.
> 
> So...they're not doing anything different with him. Gotcha.


Many of us do. In the meantime I will continue to discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum with other fans. There are plenty of threads I see about topics I roll my eyes at that I just ignore. But there are a few things that just have absolutely no justification, and this is one of them.

You seem to miss the point on how escalation works. If a company hires someone because they are a friend of an executive and they just sleep at their desk all day on their first day you say that is bad. We gave him a chance and it does not work. That person should be gone. But three months later, that person is still sleeping at their desk all day, are you going to say "well, he is doing the same thing he has been doing, so no reason to complain?" No, because the situation gets progressively worse and it keeps being more and more unbelievable to everyone around the situation so more and more people speak out, and louder. That is what is happening here. The lack of logic is more and more insulting to anyone over the age of 12.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Cult03 said:


> Can I get some videos of some legit 5 footers fighting someone that is 6'8, 276lb without sustaining some sort of injury? Justifying any of this is making you look silly, mate. He should have been sore at the very least, not trying to wind up Brodie Lee the next week.
> 
> Also has anyone else noticed that the jobbers have been showing up in the crowd minutes after being squashed in the ring? It's not just Marko Stunt.


The lack of psychology and selling drives me nuts. A lot of these things are small and could easily be fixed. They have so many veterans on the payroll too that know this. That is the most frustrating part.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Many of us do. In the meantime I will continue to discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum with other fans. There are plenty of threads I see about topics I roll my eyes at that I just ignore. But there are a few things that just have absolutely no justification, and this is one of them.
> 
> You seem to miss the point on how escalation works. If a company hires someone because they are a friend of an executive and they just sleep at their desk all day on their first day you say that is bad. We gave him a chance and it does not work. That person should be gone. But three months later, that person is still sleeping at their desk all day, are you going to say "well, he is doing the same thing he has been doing, so no reason to complain?" No, because the situation gets progressively worse and it keeps being more and more unbelievable to everyone around the situation so more and more people speak out, and louder. That is what is happening here. The lack of logic is more and more insulting to anyone over the age of 12.


I feel like you're analogy doesn't work because the guy that's sleeping is not doing their job. Marko is doing his so what escalation is there? And who else is speaking out against him besides that 4 people on this forum?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> And who else is speaking out against him besides that 4 people on this forum?


The one with the highest profile would probably be either Jim Cornette (Who has said openly many times how Marko shouldn't be anywhere near wrestling in general) or Kevin Nash who has publicly criticised Marko.

Link to Nash's criticism: Former WWE Superstar takes shot at AEW match featuring Lance Archer and Marko Stunt

Cornette's podcast host Brian Last also agrees that Marko should be nowhere near wrestling as do multiple independent guys who have gone public about Marko being no good for wrestling.

Link to independent wrestler criticising Stunt: Indie Wrestler Trashes AEW For Signing Marko Stunt

This very forum shit on Marko when his signing was announced publicly last year: Marko Stunt has officially signed with AEW

Many conversations on Reddit and social media such as Facebook have buried Stunt and talked about how awful he looks and how he shouldn't be involved in wrestling. I'd post a link to Reddit thread about it but not sure if that's allowed here or not. Stunt himself was criticised so much by AEW fans and received such backlash that he almost quit wrestling which is sad but again proof that it isn't just a few people against him.

It isn't just all about us 4 guys (I think it's more on this forum alone) it's legitimately a problem many people are having and we're backed up by two pretty big hitters in Cornette and Nash. I'm sure more wrestlers would openly talk about Stunt not being deserving but don't want to appear unprofessional or mean.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> The lack of psychology and selling drives me nuts. A lot of these things are small and could easily be fixed. They have so many veterans on the payroll too that know this. That is the most frustrating part.


The worst part is AEW fans are recognized as the smart fans, meaning they know these shows were recorded on the same day. Meaning Stunt was literally fine an hour later.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I feel like you're analogy doesn't work because the guy that's sleeping is not doing their job. Marko is doing his so what escalation is there? And who else is speaking out against him besides that 4 people on this forum?


Fair enough, maybe this one:

A new major brewing company is announced. People get excited because they are tired of drinking the same Bud Light that tastes more and more watered down every year.

They announce that their content will be alcohol-based and will deliver a higher ABV than their competition. They hire a few major players that have contributed to some high quality beers at several micro breweries around the world. Many of them have won 5, 6, or even 7 star awards from major brewing reviewers.

Now on opening day for this new brewery, they bring in people not only from the brewing industry, but also from soda companies, juice companies, and even some guys who have tried making their own beer in their basements. They are all told to work together and it does not go well (this would be the DoN Casino Battle Royal in the analogy).

Fortunately the company learns a lot from this first experience and makes some changes. A few of the soda guys are friends of the owners so they get to stay. No more juice company guys though. And the guys who have made beer in their basement at least know the basics so maybe they can learn.

So they spend the next few months planning what their mainstream release products will look like. They have an awesome Double IPA as their flagship product. Everyone wants those. They have a stout and pilsner to please the mainstream beer fans, and they even have a barley wine for the hardcore people who want the most ABV.

But now one of the soda guys says look, I do not know anything about making a product with alcoholic content, I only know the flavor because I have tasted it before at a real brewery. But you should still let me work with one of the big guys because in the tasting room, in front of that small group, they will like the taste of the product I make.

Now what that guy does not realize is, his product is not actually beer. It may taste like beer at first sip, but very quickly the customers are going to realize they are drinking something with no alcohol in it.

Now you serve one glass of your real beer along with a glass of this guy's non-alcoholic drink. You notice something is off with the latter pretty quickly but you might dismiss it as a fluke. Four drinks in, you know something is wrong. Way wrong. This second product is not alcohol-based at all. The more of each you sample, the difference is more and more obvious. It escalates in that way. If you order one real beer and someone serves you an O'Doul's it could be an honest mistake. But each time they keep making that mistake it becomes less and less forgivable and makes those you are serving to louder and louder.

In this analogy, the soda guy is technically doing his job. He is making a beer for the company. But the beer does not live up to the alcohol-based content the company had promised when they announced their opening.

As to who is criticizing this. It is obviously more than "four of us" on this forum. As pointed out above, there are plenty of people on social media who are doing so. Cornette and Nash were mentioned, and I would call them the people who have no interest at all with getting a job in AEW right now. There are many, many others who likely feel the same way but know they will blow their chances if they criticize the product. You only need to listen to Arn and JR before they got hired by AEW to know they were not fans of things like the Bucks and the play school people. Their tunes changed when some of their bosses became those types.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> The one with the highest profile would probably be either Jim Cornette (Who has said openly many times how Marko shouldn't be anywhere near wrestling in general) or Kevin Nash who has publicly criticised Marko.
> 
> Link to Nash's criticism: Former WWE Superstar takes shot at AEW match featuring Lance Archer and Marko Stunt
> 
> ...


So a Racist, A has-been and wrestling fans. Gotcha.
But What I've said before still stands. He's not going anywhere and if The higher ups at AEW is content with keeping him well everyone is going to have to deal with it. This bitching is getting old honestly. 



Lheurch said:


> Fair enough, maybe this one:
> 
> A new major brewing company is announced. People get excited because they are tired of drinking the same Bud Light that tastes more and more watered down every year.
> 
> ...


Eh. I think this has more to do with what AEW said what it was going to be and then going back on that. Don't see how that applies to Marko Stunt.

But I overall get your point. It's just at this point there's nothing anyone can do about him so why keep on complaining? I'm not saying you have to like him, hate him all you want and honestly, keep on talking about him if you want but shit. It's just cliche and redundant at this point.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So a Racist, A has-been and wrestling fans. Gotcha.


You can't ask who agrees with us and then insult the ones that are against someone you like. Cornette and Nash have made millions in the wrestling business so their opinions are entirely valid.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So a Racist, A has-been and wrestling fans. Gotcha.
> But What I've said before still stands. He's not going anywhere and if The higher ups at AEW is content with keeping him well everyone is going to have to deal with it. This bitching is getting old honestly.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, it does have a lot to do with what they said they were going to be vs what they have presented to us. That was the point of the whole brewery analogy. It absolutely applies to Marko in that he has no place in a sport outside middle school tee ball. But it also applies to anyone who takes a big bump and gets up ten seconds later like the Bucks almost always do. They promise beer and deliver O'Doul's.

We may be talking past each other, but I do not feel like I am just complaining for the sake of it. This is a company that has said it wants feedback and has acted on at least some feedback. Vince is going to do what Vince wants to do. With AEW we at least have some chance of our feedback being heard.

Each week is a storyline progression. The goal of any company is to make it better. And yes, of course I give them many passes during COVID-19. But even if you insist on having Marko on your roster which seems to be unlikely to change from your opinion (I have yet to see a copy of his contract). But at least have him sell. Have him be intimidated by a giant debuting monster. They are ignoring the absolute most basic stuff here and it hurts my brain honestly. And the tragic part is he takes all the baby face heat that should be going to Jungle Boy off him. Jungle Boy is small but he is an actual athlete who can go. That can lead to a big match with Luchasaurus or at least a competitive match with Jungle Boy., or even a tag match with Dark Order. Anything is more interesting than Marko in a match. We can believe him coming back...not a middle school kid. He is just in the way.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Yes, it does have a lot to do with what they said they were going to be vs what they have presented to us. That was the point of the whole brewery analogy. It absolutely applies to Marko in that he has no place in a sport outside middle school tee ball. But it also applies to anyone who takes a big bump and gets up ten seconds later like the Bucks almost always do. They promise beer and deliver O'Doul's.
> 
> We may be talking past each other, but I do not feel like I am just complaining for the sake of it. This is a company that has said it wants feedback and has acted on at least some feedback. Vince is going to do what Vince wants to do. With AEW we at least have some chance of our feedback being heard.
> 
> Each week is a storyline progression. The goal of any company is to make it better. And yes, of course I give them many passes during COVID-19. But even if you insist on having Marko on your roster which seems to be unlikely to change from your opinion (I have yet to see a copy of his contract). But at least have him sell. Have him be intimidated by a giant debuting monster. They are ignoring the absolute most basic stuff here and it hurts my brain honestly. And the tragic part is he takes all the baby face heat that should be going to Jungle Boy off him. Jungle Boy is small but he is an actual athlete who can go. That can lead to a big match with Luchasaurus or at least a competitive match with Jungle Boy., or even a tag match with Dark Order. Anything is more interesting than Marko in a match. We can believe him coming back...not a middle school kid. He is just in the way.


Well like I said. Talk to Tony/Cody on Twitter and let them know how you feel about Marko and the selling nonsense. I highly doubt that they're gonna see your post on this fourm.

I'm not all that bothered by him selling. To me that's just pointless overanalyzing and nitpicking and trying to apply some Bullshit realism into something that it can't be applied to and frankly doesn't belong. Also..why does he have to be this scared little boy? Why can't he be delusional and think he can take on people he obviously can't? I feel like there's more they can do with that then just have him wet his pants at the sight of some big dude. Not saying that that's what they're doing with him 100% but To me personally that would be more fun to watch.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Lol, imagine just dismissing criticisms with the justification that it is "filler" in a world where people have Netflix on even their phones, and can go and watch an entire back catalogue of well-made films and television shows. That's what people are doing. AEW's job is to produce compelling content. If they are marketing "filler" to people? They're not doing their jobs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



in case you haven’t noticed there is a pandemic going on.

films have stopped production, sports have stopped, soaps in this country aren’t running to their usual schedule.

if there is ever a time filler is ok, it’s this time.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

deleted as someone else said it better.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Let me make something clear to you. You don't have to like anything, you can critique any and everything about AEW all you fucking want and it's okay with me. Don't sit here and act like I'm trying to silence you or trying to dictate what you can and can't say about AEW because that's not what I'm saying or doing. The thing is is that you and some other posters here are getting very redundant in your bitching about Marko Stunt.
> 
> We get it. You don't think Marko Stunt shouldn't be wrestling, you think He's too small, you think it's not believable, WE FUCKING GET IT! It's the same shit over and over and over and over again. Clearly he's not going anywhere, clearly they're going to keep on using him. All you can do at this point is talk to Tony and The Elite about it and if they don't listen then just do something else when he comes on. But this constant bitching about him on this forum is getting old. Have some personal responsibility to stop bitching about the damn plate of shit and ORDER SOMETHING ELSE ON THE FUCKING MENU! It's not that hard.
> 
> ...


said what I wanted to say but better, I’ll delete my previous post. nailed it.


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well like I said. Talk to Tony/Cody on Twitter and let them know how you feel about Marko and the selling nonsense. I highly doubt that they're gonna see your post on this fourm.
> 
> I'm not all that bothered by him selling. To me that's just pointless overanalyzing and nitpicking and trying to apply some Bullshit realism into something that it can't be applied to and frankly doesn't belong. Also..why does he have to be this scared little boy? Why can't he be delusional and think he can take on people he obviously can't? I feel like there's more they can do with that then just have him wet his pants at the sight of some big dude. Not saying that that's what they're doing with him 100% but To me personally that would be more fun to watch.


yes but that isn’t what THEY want and what THEY think should happen so it is therefore shit.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Danielallen1410 said:


> yes but that isn’t what THEY want and what THEY think should happen so it is therefore shit.


And that's another thing. They don't have to do what YOU think they should do and just because it's not what you want to see doesn't mean it's bad. It's not your promotion and they don't owe you anything. Stop the entitlement please.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> And that's another thing. They don't have to do what YOU think they should do and just because it's not what you want to see doesn't mean it's bad. It's not your promotion and they don't owe you anything. Stop the entitlement please.


The TNA fans 5-6 years ago would make the same arguments on their platform of choice. Look where TNA is today.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> The TNA fans 5-6 years ago would make the same arguments on their platform of choice. Look where TNA is today.


Still Alive and Kicking? And seem to be in a better position than they have been in a long time with legit people backing them?


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> The TNA fans 5-6 years ago would make the same arguments on their platform of choice. Look where TNA is today.


if tna had never got hogan and Bischoff and continued along the way the we’re going in 2009 they’d have continued to grow slowly, they made one massive mistake which caused a domino effect.

i don’t see aew doing that.

i see aew as very similar to TNA 2004-2010 and that’s no bad thing.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well like I said. Talk to Tony/Cody on Twitter and let them know how you feel about Marko and the selling nonsense. I highly doubt that they're gonna see your post on this fourm.
> 
> I'm not all that bothered by him selling. To me that's just pointless overanalyzing and nitpicking and trying to apply some Bullshit realism into something that it can't be applied to and frankly doesn't belong. Also..why does he have to be this scared little boy? Why can't he be delusional and think he can take on people he obviously can't? I feel like there's more they can do with that then just have him wet his pants at the sight of some big dude. Not saying that that's what they're doing with him 100% but To me personally that would be more fun to watch.


Selling and psychology are nonsense? Some degree of realism has always been a part of pro wrestling. There are a few people who normally do fake fights in high school gyms who want to throw invisible hand grenades and pretend kids can fight adults and that is just stupid.

Just like any good movie has to follow an internal logic, so does something like wrestling. No one wants to see a kid with magical powers in something that was promised to have a sports-based presentation.

He should be a scared little boy because that is what he is. I am not saying his character could not be some delusional kid who thinks he can take on some big dude and get his ass kicked. But then the ass kicking actually has to take place. If he takes on someone larger, he IS going to get hurt. That part needs to happen too for your idea to work. He should be out for weeks with broken bones after he fights an actual adult. The way they have been going just has no logic and no adult would buy into it. It could be fun to see a small delusional guy think he can win, but the getting destroyed as a result part needs to happen too. I would also want that small guy to be talented though. For me, everything about Marko is stupid. His look is stupid, his face is stupid, and his stupid little dance is stupid.

Whenever they progressively do stupid things with Marko there is always going to be a new thread on here. But you know what I have never seen on here? I have never seen anyone say something along the lines of "wow Marko Stunt is an amazing athlete. He may be short but man that kid can go. Look at how he has built himself as an athlete despite his height." Those threads do not exist because he sucks. Everyone knows he sucks, but some people seem ideologically forced to defend everything AEW does no matter how dumb it is. They live in this black and white universe where allowing even one criticism of something they love means the whole house of cards comes crashing down. The world does not work that way though. Every company, no matter how good it is makes mistakes. They rely on the market and customer feedback to let them know when they make mistakes. The only other option to criticizing AEW when they do dumb things is just to give them blind adulation.

Should we just have a forum where everything is praised? No room for obvious criticism?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Still Alive and Kicking? And seem to be in a better position than they have been in a long time with legit people backing them?


You're right. TNA is doing awesome. Their last public TV rating was around 150,000 and they tape in front of like 500-600 hardcore wrestling fans, put their belt on a woman. have had like 2-3 owners since Dixie and their biggest star is a 50 year old Rob Van Dam. Sounds like they're truly excelling.

Lets face facts, Impact at one point was doing better than AEW is now with a more famous roster and higher TV ratings. Much like the AEW fans the TNA fans would defend ANYTHING that TNA ever did that was wrong. Eric Young wins the World Title in a blatant WWE/Daniel Bryan rip off? Well, how do you know it's a rip off? Random gimmick matches on TV for no reason? Everything is fine! Hire Vince Russo back? He has plenty to offer, bro!

What happened was much like AEW we saw TNA keep offering this kind of lazy "smart mark" niche programming to their fans and had nothing to really attract the casual wrestling fan. The TNA fans kept posting on their social media how awesome it was and would tell the "haters" that they were wrong which lead to TNA's ratings dropping, key players leaving due to lack of forward momentum and it now being in the position it's in.

Do you see the likes of Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Bucks, Cody and even the guys with potential sticking around long term if AEW stays around this 700-800k TV rating mark over the next 3-5 years? No. So maybe instead of the whole "IT'S THEIR SHOW AND THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT!" you and they should accept the criticism and try to fix it.




Lheurch said:


> Selling and psychology are nonsense? Some degree of realism has always been a part of pro wrestling. There are a few people who normally do fake fights in high school gyms who want to throw invisible hand grenades and pretend kids can fight adults and that is just stupid.
> 
> Just like any good movie has to follow an internal logic, so does something like wrestling. No one wants to see a kid with magical powers in something that was promised to have a sports-based presentation.
> 
> ...


Great points.

I see the backstage stuff in wrestling as segments that should make sense and wrestling should take from movies where most of the time things make sense. In the movies someone like Marko Stunt can occasionally overcome the odds but it's always done in a realistic way. One of my favourite movies as a kid was Home Alone and throughout the movie you see that Kevin is afraid of the bad guys until he has to fight them and when he does he doesn't try and fight them with his fists he instead booby traps the house. It's been a little while since I've seen the movie but all the traps are at least kind of feasible from memory and Kevin the 8 year old little boy never does any actual overpowering of the bad guys. How dumb would the movie be if Kevin kicked the living shit out of both villains in the film? That's what AEW kind of does with Stunt.

And you're right in regards to Marko being praised it never happens except in threads like these where people like to "fight the haters". I've never seen any thread saying "Marko Stunt was super entertaining this week!" only threads and posts saying he's simply acceptable which to me means average.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Selling and psychology are nonsense? Some degree of realism has always been a part of pro wrestling. There are a few people who normally do fake fights in high school gyms who want to throw invisible hand grenades and pretend kids can fight adults and that is just stupid.
> 
> Just like any good movie has to follow an internal logic, so does something like wrestling. No one wants to see a kid with magical powers in something that was promised to have a sports-based presentation.
> 
> ...


I feel like you're not getting what I'm saying. 

I'm not saying it's wrong to criticize AEW. I'm not saying you have to like everything they do. As i've said before there's things I don't like about AEW either but I don't go on and on and on about it like y'all do. For Example, I don't like that Omega and Page are Tag Champs, I'd rather have the other dozen tag teams they have be champion and on top of that do secondary feuds in the division as well. But I don't bitch about it in several threads till I'm blue in the face. I vocalize it and then keep it moving. You can have a discussion about whatever you want, but it gets to the point where it gets redundant and the same shit keeps getting said and then nothings accomplished. You keep going on about well they need feedback and you're right they do however, if you really want change then take it up with the people who are running the show. Just bitching on a wrestling forum won't do anything. Change takes action.

And as for the rest..I agree. having Marko get his ass kicked everytime is the correct way to go about it. But I feel like what you're specifically complaining about is just making a mountain out of a molehill and is just nonsensical. It's wrestling. None of it is realistic and never really has been and even if it was Marko wasn't beaten up in a way that he would be injured in kayfabe so why the fuck would he need to be hurt? Just because the dude is big and he's small? You also gotta remember we're in a pademic and I doubt that they can afford to have someone sit out for some silly kayfabe reason. It's just not that big of a deal. 

And for the record I think the kid wrestles just fine. I don't get how he has no talent. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not talented.






Chip Chipperson said:


> You're right. TNA is doing awesome. Their last public TV rating was around 150,000 and they tape in front of like 500-600 hardcore wrestling fans, put their belt on a woman. have had like 2-3 owners since Dixie and their biggest star is a 50 year old Rob Van Dam. Sounds like they're truly excelling.
> 
> Lets face facts, Impact at one point was doing better than AEW is now with a more famous roster and higher TV ratings. Much like the AEW fans the TNA fans would defend ANYTHING that TNA ever did that was wrong. Eric Young wins the World Title in a blatant WWE/Daniel Bryan rip off? Well, how do you know it's a rip off? Random gimmick matches on TV for no reason? Everything is fine! Hire Vince Russo back? He has plenty to offer, bro!
> 
> ...


AEW is not Impact. I personally don't think they're going to make the same mistakes. They're already doing well and will do well in the near future. Now will they need to get more people on board eventually? Yes. But for now they're doing well and when the time comes to reach out to new fans they will do that. Nobody is going to leave...well at least the elite won't. Mox probably won't either, I could see Jericho leaving but not because AEW is not where it needs to be. It would probably be to retire. They're not going to abandon the ship they created. You really gotta stop these assumptions and made up situations you make in your head about them. 

And also understand this: When the time comes for them to make a go for a new audience it might not be in a way that YOU like. It's not about you or anyone else. It's about AEW thriving and growing. Keep the entitlement and arrogance in check.

And you'll be free to say whatever you like about it.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I feel like you're not getting what I'm saying.
> 
> I'm not saying it's wrong to criticize AEW. I'm not saying you have to like everything they do. As i've said before there's things I don't like about AEW either but I don't go on and on and on about it like y'all do. For Example, I don't like that Omega and Page are Tag Champs, I'd rather have the other dozen tag teams they have be champion and on top of that do secondary feuds in the division as well. But I don't bitch about it in several threads till I'm blue in the face. I vocalize it and then keep it moving. You can have a discussion about whatever you want, but it gets to the point where it gets redundant and the same shit keeps getting said and then nothings accomplished. You keep going on about well they need feedback and you're right they do however, if you really want change then take it up with the people who are running the show. Just bitching on a wrestling forum won't do anything. Change takes action.
> 
> ...


great post


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I feel like you're not getting what I'm saying.
> 
> I'm not saying it's wrong to criticize AEW. I'm not saying you have to like everything they do. As i've said before there's things I don't like about AEW either but I don't go on and on and on about it like y'all do. For Example, I don't like that Omega and Page are Tag Champs, I'd rather have the other dozen tag teams they have be champion and on top of that do secondary feuds in the division as well. But I don't bitch about it in several threads till I'm blue in the face. I vocalize it and then keep it moving. You can have a discussion about whatever you want, but it gets to the point where it gets redundant and the same shit keeps getting said and then nothings accomplished. You keep going on about well they need feedback and you're right they do however, if you really want change then take it up with the people who are running the show. Just bitching on a wrestling forum won't do anything. Change takes action.
> 
> ...


There is plenty of stuff that we all criticize at the time in the live thread and then we forget about it because we just roll our eyes, call it dumb, and move on. But there are a few things they keep doing that are just flat out insulting to any intelligent adult human and this is one of them. But I will say the reason why this thread is still going five days after the latest stupid thing is not because the "four of us" have spent five days talking about this among ourselves. People come in here and defend the stupid and we feel obligated to respond to it. Sure, it is probably a waste of time since it is likely nothing will change either on the show or in our opinions, but this is a wrestling forum. What else are we going to do? Go outside? That seems like a bad idea right now.

Saying "it's wrestling" is such a lame excuse to me honestly. Dismissing it like that opens the door for every stupid thing we see today. Why would I care about any character in a TV show or movie if the attitude is, well they are just really actors. No one is ever in any real danger. You immerse yourself in a medium for entertainment. Guys used to walk around back in the day selling "fake" injuries in public so people would buy into the story. So yes, I do have a problem with how a lot of AEW treats the injury stuff. Why would Mox bother wearing an eye patch? Obviously he did not really get stabbed in the eye. Selling an injury builds sympathy for the character. It is pretty much wrestling and psychology 101. Yes, Marko SHOULD have been hurt because you are debuting a new giant monster character. You want to get him over as a monster, but yet the weakest guy on the roster is back the next week not only not afraid of the guy, but not a bruise to be seen. The whole thing is just dumb.

Go back to 2002 when Brock debuted. Now imagine if Maven, Spike Dudley, and whoever else Brock destroyed that night had shown up the next week jumping around unhurt smiling at Brock. We still remember 18 years later Brock just wrecking everyone that night. THAT is how you make an impact debuting a monster. Dismissing how good an injury angle can be just ignores so much about what wrestling is.

I said earlier I give them a lot of passes because of the pandemic. But they were doing this specific dumb stuff before it started. There are many guys they have all around the ring they could be using in matches but have not.

I have yet to see him present any kind of talent. He does not look like he has ever seen the inside of a gym. He certainly does not know wrestling basics like psychology or selling. He just jumps around like a goof and guys feel sorry for him so they let him execute a move on them they have no business allowing.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> There is plenty of stuff that we all criticize at the time in the live thread and then we forget about it because we just roll our eyes, call it dumb, and move on. But there are a few things they keep doing that are just flat out insulting to any intelligent adult human and this is one of them. But I will say the reason why this thread is still going five days after the latest stupid thing is not because the "four of us" have spent five days talking about this among ourselves. People come in here and defend the stupid and we feel obligated to respond to it. Sure, it is probably a waste of time since it is likely nothing will change either on the show or in our opinions, but this is a wrestling forum. What else are we going to do? Go outside? That seems like a bad idea right now.
> 
> Saying "it's wrestling" is such a lame excuse to me honestly. Dismissing it like that opens the door for every stupid thing we see today. Why would I care about any character in a TV show or movie if the attitude is, well they are just really actors. No one is ever in any real danger. You immerse yourself in a medium for entertainment. Guys used to walk around back in the day selling "fake" injuries in public so people would buy into the story. So yes, I do have a problem with how a lot of AEW treats the injury stuff. Why would Mox bother wearing an eye patch? Obviously he did not really get stabbed in the eye. Selling an injury builds sympathy for the character. It is pretty much wrestling and psychology 101. Yes, Marko SHOULD have been hurt because you are debuting a new giant monster character. You want to get him over as a monster, but yet the weakest guy on the roster is back the next week not only not afraid of the guy, but not a bruise to be seen. The whole thing is just dumb.
> 
> ...


You can watch a Movie, Play Video Games, Listen to music, watch porn lol. Like we may be stuck inside but there's tons of shit to do. Stop it now. Let's not pretend the only thing to do now is complain about the same shit day in and day out on a wrestling forum. 

You definitely do immerse yourself in the story and world. That's what your supposed to do obviously but you don't get hung up on dumb shit like you are doing right now. Like you're mad that Mark doesn't sell? Like to me that's getting mad that someone getting stabbed in the back in a horror movie and doesn't die. It's not worth getting upset over because it's a fucking movie. It's not real nor is it supposed to be. This is the attitude that I have with wrestling so to me I really don't give a shit. The World will turn and wrestling will not go the way of a dinosaur because some dude didn't act like he was hurt. Movies are still going to be made and not die because someone didn't die over something they should've. It's whatever. Don't sweat the small stuff. This is where you and I differ I suppose.

For the record I don't remember how Brock debuted so that's lost on me.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Well like I said. Talk to Tony/Cody on Twitter and let them know how you feel about Marko and the selling nonsense. I highly doubt that they're gonna see your post on this fourm.
> 
> I'm not all that bothered by him selling. To me that's just pointless overanalyzing and nitpicking and trying to apply some Bullshit realism into something that it can't be applied to and frankly doesn't belong. Also..why does he have to be this scared little boy? Why can't he be delusional and think he can take on people he obviously can't? I feel like there's more they can do with that then just have him wet his pants at the sight of some big dude. Not saying that that's what they're doing with him 100% but To me personally that would be more fun to watch.


Do you actually want to watch a show where Marko Stunt acts like a delusional child that thinks he can fight big dudes? Do you think that's the best direction this wrestling company should head in?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> Do you actually want to watch a show where Marko Stunt acts like a delusional child that thinks he can fight big dudes? Do you think that's the best direction this wrestling company should head in?


With him yes. Would be entertaining to me.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> With him yes. Would be entertaining to me.


Ok well I can't argue with that. Not because there's no argument but because you obviously have terrible taste and there's no use.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> You can watch a Movie, Play Video Games, Listen to music, watch porn lol. Like we may be stuck inside but there's tons of shit to do. Stop it now. Let's not pretend the only thing to do now is complain about the same shit day in and day out on a wrestling forum.
> 
> You definitely do immerse yourself in the story and world. That's what your supposed to do obviously but you don't get hung up on dumb shit like you are doing right now. Like you're mad that Mark doesn't sell? Like to me that's getting mad that someone getting stabbed in the back in a horror movie and doesn't die. It's not worth getting upset over because it's a fucking movie. It's not real nor is it supposed to be. This is the attitude that I have with wrestling so to me I really don't give a shit. The World will turn and wrestling will not go the way of a dinosaur because some dude didn't act like he was hurt. Movies are still going to be made and not die because someone didn't die over something they should've. It's whatever. Don't sweat the small stuff. This is where you and I differ I suppose.
> 
> For the record I don't remember how Brock debuted so that's lost on me.


Yeah, I was obviously being a bit over the top there. I enjoy wrestling though, so I hate when people make it look dumb.

I am not mad that he does not sell, I am annoyed. Movies have their own rules and as long as they obey their own internal logic, I am fine with it. Jason drowned as a kid but comes back from the dead, OK. If that is your rule in the movie, I can live with that. But in something that was promised to be sports based entertainment, when a small child gets slammed, I expect that child to sell the injury. If he does not, what is the point of doing anything? What are the stakes? Why would I believe anything about this giant guy otherwise? If you are watching a crazy undead killer in a Friday the 13th movie and all of a sudden aliens show up, that makes no sense right? If Marko cannot be hurt by a debuting monster, how does anyone beat anyone else in a match? As human beings we understand how attrition works, and seeing it disregarded so blatantly makes us not take what we are seeing seriously. Hundreds of thousands of people have already stopped watching. One would hope, those in charge would realize that and make changes.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> Ok well I can't argue with that. Not because there's no argument but because you obviously have terrible taste and there's no use.


Okay first off. We're here talking about people who pretend fight in their fucking underwear. Do NOT sit here and get elitist and think you have ANY better taste than me or anyone else. Cut that shit out ASAP because it's foolish and it's not a game that you're allowed to play given the subject at hand here.



Lheurch said:


> Yeah, I was obviously being a bit over the top there. I enjoy wrestling though, so I hate when people make it look dumb.
> 
> I am not mad that he does not sell, I am annoyed. Movies have their own rules and as long as they obey their own internal logic, I am fine with it. Jason drowned as a kid but comes back from the dead, OK. If that is your rule in the movie, I can live with that. But in something that was promised to be sports based entertainment, when a small child gets slammed, I expect that child to sell the injury. If he does not, what is the point of doing anything? What are the stakes? Why would I believe anything about this giant guy otherwise? If you are watching a crazy undead killer in a Friday the 13th movie and all of a sudden aliens show up, that makes no sense right? If Marko cannot be hurt by a debuting monster, how does anyone beat anyone else in a match? As human beings we understand how attrition works, and seeing it disregarded so blatantly makes us not take what we are seeing seriously. Hundreds of thousands of people have already stopped watching. One would hope, those in charge would realize that and make changes.


I see you're still holding them to that "Sports based entertainment" shit. I know that's what they promised so you have a right to be like "Wait a minute.." but at this point I'd just let it go. That's not what they're doing anymore, it hasn't hurt them one iota. It is what it is. It doesn't matter. 

But here's the thing..Marko is not a child. he just looks like one. So why would he be a pile of broken bones? And he CAN be hurt, he's just not injured. Anyone and everyone can be hurt in wrestling. One guy not ending up in a hospital kayfabe wise doesn't negate everything else. That's the kind of shit that's ridiculous to me. 

And also. People didn't stop watching wrestling because of realism of whatever nonsense..it was because the fad was over and people moved on. Nothing more and nothing less. It's nothing to do with psychology or selling.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I see you're still holding them to that "Sports based entertainment" shit. I know that's what they promised so you have a right to be like "Wait a minute.." but at this point I'd just let it go. That's not what they're doing anymore, it hasn't hurt them one iota. It is what it is. It doesn't matter.
> 
> But here's the thing..Marko is not a child. he just looks like one. So why would he be a pile of broken bones? And he CAN be hurt, he's just not injured. Anyone and everyone can be hurt in wrestling. One guy not ending up in a hospital kayfabe wise doesn't negate everything else. That's the kind of shit that's ridiculous to me.
> 
> And also. People didn't stop watching wrestling because of realism of whatever nonsense..it was because the fad was over and people moved on. Nothing more and nothing less. It's nothing to do with psychology or selling.


Of course I am holding them to what they told me they would be in their own words. No one forced them to say that and they have not rescinded it. I am holding them accountable to their own rules they chose to define for themselves. Nothing more, nothing less.

He may not be a child, but he has the body of a child. A debuting monster SHOULD have hurt him. That is my point. If a monster debuts and cannot even make the weakest member of your roster have a week long injury, why would I take him seriously? A monster should be hurting normal average sized guys, so causing a major injury to a child is a no-brainer. Just tonight on RAW, Apollo Crews got "injured" in a match with someone close to his size and had to stop the match and hobble off. We cannot even get THAT from a monster beating a child? I really cannot understand how you defend this. Should we invite children into the ring to beat our stars now? Maybe we should give Marko a job as a linebacker in the NFL. No? Why not? You mean you actually have to be an athlete and strong to make it in an elite sport?

I very much disagree with you that people stopped watching because "the fad was over." It is a multi-varied reason, but you had WCW and ECW both go out of business within a couple months, then within a year you had the two biggest stars ever leave the business. It was not that people just got tired of watching; the people they liked and the competition that caused the increased interest went away. You had Austin and Rock replaced by boring ass Cena. Fans left by the millions. We can discuss TNA separately, but now you finally have a second company that has a major weekly TV deal. And you tell me that logic does not matter? Nothing to do with psychology or selling? Look at the state of affairs when wrestling was drawing the most fans both in arenas and on TV vs now (COVID-19 excepted). You had believable characters that people actually bought into.

I do not know how old you are, but when I was in high school it was cool to wear an Austin or Rock shirt. Can you imagine someone wearing a John Cena or Marko Stunt shirt today? They would be laughed out of whatever building they are in. No one wants to admit they are a wrestling fan today and there are many reasons why that is. Not just "a passing fad." My friends and I were excited to watch Nitro and RAW back in the day. Today I can barely make it through a RAW without several drinks. I just want a return of good storytelling. Getting rid of people like Marko who cannot even sell for a 6'8 monster is not even the first step. It is the implied pre-step to return to something worth liking.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

As pointed out above by Lheurch I also would have less issue with what AEW is trotting out if they had said all along "Yeah it's going to be a comedic modern indy style show". At that point any fan could instantly shut me down by saying "Well, they told you what it is what were you expecting?"

AEW still to this day is trying to promote themselves as this awesome wrestling show.



Lheurch said:


> Saying "it's wrestling" is such a lame excuse to me honestly. Dismissing it like that opens the door for every stupid thing we see today. Why would I care about any character in a TV show or movie if the attitude is, well they are just really actors. No one is ever in any real danger. You immerse yourself in a medium for entertainment. Guys used to walk around back in the day selling "fake" injuries in public so people would buy into the story. So yes, I do have a problem with how a lot of AEW treats the injury stuff. Why would Mox bother wearing an eye patch? Obviously he did not really get stabbed in the eye. Selling an injury builds sympathy for the character. It is pretty much wrestling and psychology 101. Yes, Marko SHOULD have been hurt because you are debuting a new giant monster character. You want to get him over as a monster, but yet the weakest guy on the roster is back the next week not only not afraid of the guy, but not a bruise to be seen. The whole thing is just dumb.
> 
> Go back to 2002 when Brock debuted. Now imagine if Maven, Spike Dudley, and whoever else Brock destroyed that night had shown up the next week jumping around unhurt smiling at Brock. We still remember 18 years later Brock just wrecking everyone that night. THAT is how you make an impact debuting a monster. Dismissing how good an injury angle can be just ignores so much about what wrestling is.


Spot on.

"It's a movie and it's fake" could excuse any horrible storytelling in a film but make that suggestion to a fan, critic or just someone who is fond of storytelling and they'd laugh. Somehow it's acceptable in wrestling to say "It's fake so it doesn't matter".

Brock's debut is a great point by the way he absolutely smashed guys much smaller than him and it was sold that he was an animal who could belt everyone. Someone in this post said they need all hands on deck because of COVID-19 but Marko to my knowledge hasn't wrestled since that Archer match so he definitely could've stayed off the cameras for at least one "week taping"


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Can you really say that TNA of many years ago was doing better than AEW now? In the last 5 years, record amounts of people have cut cable and all of these streaming services are enormously popular. The landscape has faced a seismic change, so to compare Television numbers between two different companies so many years apart is kind of silly. It's a different world.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

MontyCora said:


> Can you really say that TNA of many years ago was doing better than AEW now? In the last 5 years, record amounts of people have cut cable and all of these streaming services are enormously popular. The landscape has faced a seismic change, so to compare Television numbers between two different companies so many years apart is kind of silly. It's a different world.


TNA had higher ratings, more international exposure, bigger stars, a house show loop, merchandising deals, video game deals and had many future WWE stars in their undercard. They also would've been bringing more money in than AEW does.

AEW isn't doing that amazing, Eric Bischoff said on his podcast this past week that the TNA recap show used to do higher ratings than AEW Dynamite does.


----------



## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> TNA had higher ratings, more international exposure, bigger stars, a house show loop, merchandising deals, video game deals and had many future WWE stars in their undercard. They also would've been bringing more money in than AEW does.
> 
> AEW isn't doing that amazing, Eric Bischoff said on his podcast this past week that the TNA recap show used to do higher ratings than AEW Dynamite does.


You're totally completely ignoring the point. If you started peak TNA, whatever that was like 2008 or whatever, and you plopped it into 2020 on TNT and you expected similar or higher ratings that they had at that time, you're in for a pretty brutal awakening. Netflix. Disney+. Hulu. NONE of these sources existed when TNA was at it's peak, LOTS more people had access to cable. You point to Bischoffs podcast and his anecdote about the TNA recap ratings like that's proof that AEW in 2020 is trash, but in reality it's just proof that TV is not the same creature it used to be. Ratings for everything will continue to shrink. Raw was at like 5 million people when TNA was at it's best. Raw is now at 2.

And AEW has a videogame in development as we speak, which is much much faster than TNA, which was officially formed in 2004 or something like that, and the game came out in 08. I'm not saying AEW is this amazing ratings juggernaut and TNA sucked or anything like that, I'm simply saying that your arguments are based on a false premise.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Lheurch said:


> Of course I am holding them to what they told me they would be in their own words. No one forced them to say that and they have not rescinded it. I am holding them accountable to their own rules they chose to define for themselves. Nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> He may not be a child, but he has the body of a child. A debuting monster SHOULD have hurt him. That is my point. If a monster debuts and cannot even make the weakest member of your roster have a week long injury, why would I take him seriously? A monster should be hurting normal average sized guys, so causing a major injury to a child is a no-brainer. Just tonight on RAW, Apollo Crews got "injured" in a match with someone close to his size and had to stop the match and hobble off. We cannot even get THAT from a monster beating a child? I really cannot understand how you defend this. Should we invite children into the ring to beat our stars now? Maybe we should give Marko a job as a linebacker in the NFL. No? Why not? You mean you actually have to be an athlete and strong to make it in an elite sport?
> 
> ...


Right. So like I said...you have a right to hold them to it. I just think it's dumb at this point because it just doesn't matter.

The Monster had a whole match with stunt right? so he did hurt him. He just didn't injure him. So in that regard he can still be taken seriously because he beat his ass enough to show that he's a big strong bitch and he'll kick your ass. IIRC Braun Strowman didn't have to break someone's neck to get over the fact that he was a big mean motherfucker who can throw you around. But he did beat ass enough to let you know that he was a legit threat. So neither does Lance and Neither will Brody. Just beating his ass will be enough. To me this just comes off as you not getting your way and you don't like it so you're hiding behind petty ass logic. 

So let me ask you this..If WCW and ECW still were around and Austin and Rock Never left wrestling still would've been popular? Would it have stayed in the public's eye? Would people's perception of wrestling still be positive? 

Getting Rid of Marko isn't going to bring back what you grew up with. It's not gonna change people's perception of wrestling and it's not going to make millions of people watch again. I'ts not a step to anything. You think that it's about "stars" and "psychology" and it's not. Wrestling just can't compete with today's entertainment and that's why it's where it is IMO. But that's okay though, because it doesn't really need to. It's carved out it's own little niche and it does pretty well within it and will continue too. Marko or Not. 

This is all just making a mountain out of a molehill.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Okay first off. We're here talking about people who pretend fight in their fucking underwear. Do NOT sit here and get elitist and think you have ANY better taste than me or anyone else. Cut that shit out ASAP because it's foolish and it's not a game that you're allowed to play given the subject at hand here.


There we go. The go-to argument of the AEW sycophant. It's fake! I'm not playing any games. Enjoying Marko Stunt means you have bad taste. Bad opinions are still opinions and I shouldn't fault you on that. But I'm not going to piss in your pocket and tell you it's raining. Just because you're entitled to an opinion doesn't mean we have to tell you it's a good one. It's a fucking bad opinion, man. 

Also regarding your response to Lheurch, just because he wasn't injured doesn't mean he shouldn't sell still being in pain or being hurt. Stunt leaving now won't make wrestling cool again or bring more fans to wrestlingas a whole but it will push those fans who are unsure about AEW in a positive direction. Who is making the mountain out of a molehill by the way? You guys defend this shit like you're related to him. If you guys could simply admit that "Yeah, they have better options" instead of settling for something below average and arguing it to the death, we all could move on. But because a lot of you struggle to admit that something AEW does hasn't turned to gold we go round and round in circles.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Are you making your voices heard to Tony and the elite though? If not then what you said is null and void.
> 
> Also: What are they doing with stunt now that they weren't doing before?


How dare people discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum? And it is definitely up to the fans to book the show. What even is this point?



Danielallen1410 said:


> in case you haven’t noticed there is a pandemic going on.
> 
> films have stopped production, sports have stopped, soaps in this country aren’t running to their usual schedule.
> 
> if there is ever a time filler is ok, it’s this time.


No, it’s really not. And it’s going to cost them.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Do you actually want to watch a show where Marko Stunt acts like a delusional child that thinks he can fight big dudes? Do you think that's the best direction this wrestling company should head in?


I didn’t Want to watch a show where too cool danced and did the worm

i didn’t want to watch a show with right to censor pissing me off

i didn’t want to Watch a show with mae young getting her tits out.


fortunately I didnt focus on it much and just concentrated on the things I enjoyed about the show.

if there wasn’t anything I enjoyed about it I’d have turned off.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> How dare people discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum? And it is definitely up to the fans to book the show. What even is this point?
> 
> 
> 
> No, it’s really not. And it’s going to cost them.


remains to be seen, they clearly did these first few shows as filler thinking they wouldn’t be allowed to progress storylines due to not being live and not having enough wrestlers.

now they’ve been given the go ahead and they are expecting 60 per cent of the roster to be available in a couple of weeks I’d expect shows to step up.


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

lolllll...
genuine question to those who say it's "fake, it's only wrestling get over it". Would you be entertained by a 14 year old girl who has some sort of sporting experience having a match with archer and getting rag dolled then next week being fine and standing up to brodie lee? and if not why not?


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Swan-San said:


> lolllll...
> genuine question to those who say it's "fake, it's only wrestling get over it". Would you be entertained by a 14 year old girl who has some sort of sporting experience having a match with archer and getting rag dolled then next week being fine and standing up to brodie lee? and if not why not?


These are the same people who were cool with Kenny wrestling a blow up doll and a 9 year old so I wouldn't put it past them


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> I didn’t Want to watch a show where too cool danced and did the worm
> 
> i didn’t want to watch a show with right to censor pissing me off
> 
> ...


Millions of people did though. WWE could afford to have some dumb shit as they had leeway from giving years of entertainment. AEW is still trying to get a solid fan base and they need to earn it by not doing dumb shit like this. I don't get how this is so hard to understand for some of you. Very few of us focus on the negatives. You guys focus on the negative things that are said about AEW though.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Millions of people did though. WWE could afford to have some dumb shit as they had leeway from giving years of entertainment. AEW is still trying to get a solid fan base and they need to earn it by not doing dumb shit like this. I don't get how this is so hard to understand for some of you. Very few of us focus on the negatives. You guys focus on the negative things that are said about AEW though.


Not to mention Too Cool weren't that dumb (Except Scotty's finisher being a chop to the chest), RTC weren't dumb at all and Mae Young whilst gross was quite entertaining in the "Crazy old Aunt" role. 

None of it really makes wrestling look fake (Apart from Scotty's chop). AEW seemingly have at least 3 segments a week pointing out that wrestling is fake.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Danielallen1410 said:


> I didn’t Want to watch a show where too cool danced and did the worm
> 
> i didn’t want to watch a show with right to censor pissing me off
> 
> ...


Okay, but that’s you. Lots of people did. And you weren’t obligated to watch. Lots of people didn’t. It’s not fair to suggest that your approach to content is universally better.

None of that stuff is anywhere near as ridiculous as Marko Stunt though. 



Danielallen1410 said:


> remains to be seen, they clearly did these first few shows as filler thinking they wouldn’t be allowed to progress storylines due to not being live and not having enough wrestlers.
> 
> now they’ve been given the go ahead and they are expecting 60 per cent of the roster to be available in a couple of weeks I’d expect shows to step up.


How? People act like they haven’t been trying. Storylines have been advancing, they’re just not very good. Jericho is doing his stuff with Matt Hardy, Cody with Archer. That’s the core of it. Is getting, say, Adam Page back really going to make that stuff better or different?

I don’t get where this “they’re going to get better” mentality comes from.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Okay, but that’s you. Lots of people did. And you weren’t obligated to watch. Lots of people didn’t. It’s not fair to suggest that your approach to content is universally better.
> 
> None of that stuff is anywhere near as ridiculous as Marko Stunt though.
> 
> ...


im not even going to waste any more energy,

if you can’t see that they have nearly all their main storylines effected by this pandemic then you need help.


----------



## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Danielallen1410 said:


> im not even going to waste any more energy,
> 
> if you can’t see that they have nearly all their main storylines effected by this pandemic then you need help.


Which storylines were so crucial to the show that they couldn’t be altered though? Like, Adam Page isn’t there right, but why can’t they have Kenny Omega start a feud with someone to get that ready? Or why can’t it feed the story? Why do they have to do the Nakazawa stuff?

I’m not saying they haven’t been effected, but it doesn’t explain them not trying anything or why the stuff they do have isn’t working.

Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy was going to be Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy with or without the pandemic.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Wood said:


> Which storylines were so crucial to the show that they couldn’t be altered though? Like, Adam Page isn’t there right, but why can’t they have Kenny Omega start a feud with someone to get that ready? Or why can’t it feed the story? Why do they have to do the Nakazawa stuff?
> 
> I’m not saying they haven’t been effected, but it doesn’t explain them not trying anything or why the stuff they do have isn’t working.
> 
> Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy was going to be Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy with or without the pandemic.


well the only tag teams there are best friends as far as I’m aware.

matt Hardy isn’t there.

fuck your three champions arent on the fucking show.

these last few weeks have been them doing their nest with what they have. I look forward to the, getting back to live.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> well the only tag teams there are best friends as far as I’m aware.
> 
> matt Hardy isn’t there.
> 
> ...


I'd say with the talent available including the jobbers the members of this forum could write a more entertaining 4-6 weeks of television using those guys than AEW has...


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'd say with the talent available including the jobbers the members of this forum could write a more entertaining 4-6 weeks of television using those guys than AEW has...


I agree, but I think you could say that about any show on television, no show will be perfect.

personally I havent enjoyed The shows much, however I full appreciate the position they are in doing am not willing to Bitch about it.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> There we go. The go-to argument of the AEW sycophant. It's fake! I'm not playing any games. Enjoying Marko Stunt means you have bad taste. Bad opinions are still opinions and I shouldn't fault you on that. But I'm not going to piss in your pocket and tell you it's raining. Just because you're entitled to an opinion doesn't mean we have to tell you it's a good one. It's a fucking bad opinion, man.
> 
> Also regarding your response to Lheurch, just because he wasn't injured doesn't mean he shouldn't sell still being in pain or being hurt. Stunt leaving now won't make wrestling cool again or bring more fans to wrestlingas a whole but it will push those fans who are unsure about AEW in a positive direction. Who is making the mountain out of a molehill by the way? You guys defend this shit like you're related to him. If you guys could simply admit that "Yeah, they have better options" instead of settling for something below average and arguing it to the death, we all could move on. But because a lot of you struggle to admit that something AEW does hasn't turned to gold we go round and round in circles.


 Let's get something straight here. 

YOU'RE the one with the problem okay? YOU'RE the one that's bitching about one guy that has no effect on anything YOU'RE the one that's mad so don't put your shit on me and act like I'm the problem. You're tired of the argument? YOU move the fuck on, take some responsibility and turn AEW off when Marko comes on if it bothers you that much. Also, It's so funny how you wanna sit here and generalize AEW fans like they're all the same. We're not. Like I've said a thousand times in this thread THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT AEW EITHER AND I SAY AS SUCH but I don't bitch and moan about it all day like y'all do.

YOU are the one that's making a mountain out of a molehill because you're upset about ONE guy on a fucking wrestling show who's hardly even a part of it. 

And Let's also make something else clear here. I don't care one way or the other about Marko Stunt. I just think all the bitching is redundant and ridiculous. Cody's twitter is only a few clicks away. Take it up with him.



Chip Chipperson said:


> Not to mention Too Cool weren't that dumb (Except Scotty's finisher being a chop to the chest), RTC weren't dumb at all and Mae Young whilst gross was quite entertaining in the "Crazy old Aunt" role.
> 
> None of it really makes wrestling look fake (Apart from Scotty's chop). AEW seemingly have at least 3 segments a week pointing out that wrestling is fake.


So some old bitch birthing a hand doesn't make wrestling look dumb and fake but somehow Marko Stunt does? Okay.



The Wood said:


> Okay, but that’s you. Lots of people did. And you weren’t obligated to watch. Lots of people didn’t.* It’s not fair to suggest that your approach to content is universally better.*


And the same applies to you.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I feel like you're not getting what I'm saying.
> 
> I'm not saying it's wrong to criticize AEW. I'm not saying you have to like everything they do. As i've said before there's things I don't like about AEW either but I don't go on and on and on about it like y'all do. For Example, I don't like that Omega and Page are Tag Champs, I'd rather have the other dozen tag teams they have be champion and on top of that do secondary feuds in the division as well. But I don't bitch about it in several threads till I'm blue in the face. I vocalize it and then keep it moving. You can have a discussion about whatever you want, but it gets to the point where it gets redundant and the same shit keeps getting said and then nothings accomplished. You keep going on about well they need feedback and you're right they do however, if you really want change then take it up with the people who are running the show. Just bitching on a wrestling forum won't do anything. Change takes action.
> 
> ...


@The Wood always speaks in a way that makes me question the reasoning behind his anger. It doesn’t seem like he’s some WWE guy, but he’s a fan who is butthurt that they don’t do things HIS way. 


Cult03 said:


> Millions of people did though. WWE could afford to have some dumb shit as they had leeway from giving years of entertainment. AEW is still trying to get a solid fan base and they need to earn it by not doing dumb shit like this. I don't get how this is so hard to understand for some of you. *Very few of us focus on the negatives.* You guys focus on the negative things that are said about AEW though.


You’re not guilty, but there is a few here who don’t seem to post anything positive, which is likely a reaction to those ultra positive “AEW IS WONDERRRRFULLLLLLLL...YASSSSS” type of fans who don’t care what they do and will back everything.

But if you can’t be honest about the good stuff, only discussing the negative shit, then you’re never going to find any happy mediums and just further drive the a wedge with everyone’s feet in the sand like a bunch of stubborn mules.


Chip Chipperson said:


> Not to mention Too Cool weren't that dumb (Except Scotty's finisher being a chop to the chest), RTC weren't dumb at all and Mae Young whilst gross was quite entertaining in the "Crazy old Aunt" role.
> 
> None of it really makes wrestling look fake (Apart from Scotty's chop). AEW seemingly have at least 3 segments a week pointing out that wrestling is fake.


Well, that is YOUR opinion. I thought Austin kicking the every loving shit out of his boss on a weekly basis was by far the most fake shit I had ever seen on any form of entertainment media I had ever seen. The goddamn Mae Young hand baby being delivered. Mae Young in any form of wrestling situation at 200 years old taking a power bomb off the top rope and off the stage on multiple occassions through the tables, etc.

The most goddamn believable character for me, who was 14 at this time mind you, was a goddamn sadist who enjoyed pain and done knocked himself silly so many times he had 3 different personalities and spoke to a sock.

And that whole stupid goddamn Attitude Era being the fakest fucking storylines ever drove me away when they bought WCW. I quit watching for two decades. 



The Wood said:


> Which storylines were so crucial to the show that they couldn’t be altered though? Like, Adam Page isn’t there right, but why can’t they have Kenny Omega start a feud with someone to get that ready? Or why can’t it feed the story? Why do they have to do the Nakazawa stuff?
> 
> I’m not saying they haven’t been effected, but it doesn’t explain them not trying anything or why the stuff they do have isn’t working.
> 
> Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy was going to be Chris Jericho vs. Matt Hardy with or without the pandemic.


Of the talent available, what feuds would you suggest they run? I am genuinely curious here. I know a few they COULD do, but I understand them being extra cautious in keeping certain parties away from each other at the moment. You don’t want to hotshot certain stories when the world could be up and running at any time in the next month or two. And I’m almost positive you’re going to suggest the money matches be given away, which would just piss you off at them for running through their card and suggesting how they have the same matches over and over and over if they DID the ones I’m expecting you to say. 

Now granted, they ARE getting close to the point with me that they need to shit or get off the pot. They have dragged their feet with these pointless filler shows long enough. It is time they use their 2 hours to put together some goddamn stories. If certain people don’t want to fucking fly due to the pandemic, “Hey, that’s cool. We’ll figure out a storyline for you when you come back, but we have to move forward.” That goes for Page, The Bucks, MJF, any of them. It is part of your job to be there.

And before anyone says it, yes I fly to and from work with my “essential employee” letter in hand. I know it is part of the gig, and I accept that. The wrestlers need to man the fuck up or sit at home and let the show go on without them.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

@bdon 
Exactly. And he's not the only one too. I don't understand it. It's not your promotion and they don't have to do things they way you want them to. This is a huge issue with wrestling fans today. If it's not what they want it sucks. Drop the entitlement.

And then this elitist bullshit...like really? Lmao such a joke

I remember fondly mae young wrestling and getting powerbombed and shit in her old age. That's okay but Marko Stunt is a problem? And I don't wanna hear this "well wrestling was bigger back then" It don't fucking matter. If Mae young existing is fine then Marko is fine too. Period


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Mae Young wasn’t fine when I was a 14 year old, and Marko Stunt isn’t fine today when I’m nearly 36.

However much I hate him being in the ring, I ain’t getting pissed that he didn’t sell some sort of injury. Nothing that happened to him suggests he should be injured. Ciampa and Adam Cole fall off the top of goddamn WarGames Cage through a table with Adam Cole landing squarely on his fucking head, and yet Cole is wrestling the next night in a 30 minute barn burner and retaining his championship.

And this from PWI’s goddamn wrestler of the year! And before you say that title doesn’t mean shit, stop. It means something to everyone of the boys in the back, and it means something to everyone of the boys from yesteryear.

The #1 wrestler of the year fell on his head from 10+ feet in the air through a table and was on goddamn television the NEXT FUCKING NIGHT wrestling in a 30 minute match! And he is built somewhere between Darby fuckin’ Allin and Sammy Guevara, though I’d lean closer to Allin’s build.

And this isn’t about me suggesting you should go bitch and moan about Adam Cole. You may have. Maybe you didn’t. Don’t know, don’t care. My point is that this is where wrestling is. Accept the niche quality of it, or you should learn to ignore the dumb shit and let the chips fall as they may either proving you right or wrong in time.



As for Marko: Nothing Archer did suggested he wanted to genuinely injure Marko. Not a single one of his moves seemed to imply injury but just enough pain to keep toying with Stunt. I would almost expect Brodie to be the one to injure Marko in this upcoming match. Either injure him or take it easy to get Marko to join, showing him enough power that he must accept Jungle Boy and Luchasaurus being gone and needing the numbers on his side.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> @bdon
> Exactly. And he's not the only one too. I don't understand it. It's not your promotion and they don't have to do things they way you want them to. This is a huge issue with wrestling fans today. If it's not what they want it sucks. Drop the entitlement.
> 
> And then this elitist bullshit...like really? Lmao such a joke
> ...


For the record, I know many, MANY people liked the Attitude Era, but if someone tells me flat out they enjoyed the WWE product at that time, then I am absolutely judging you as white-trash, Jerry Springer-loving, incestuous backwoods fucking ********.

That shit was fucking God awful. You want to talk about killing the business, that entire era did more to kill the business than it did in growing the business. Hulk Hogan’s boring 80s run grew the business more without killing it with stupid fucking daytime soap opera storylines.

I fucking hate WWE.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Let's get something straight here.
> 
> YOU'RE the one with the problem okay? YOU'RE the one that's bitching about one guy that has no effect on anything YOU'RE the one that's mad so don't put your shit on me and act like I'm the problem. You're tired of the argument? YOU move the fuck on, take some responsibility and turn AEW off when Marko comes on if it bothers you that much. Also, It's so funny how you wanna sit here and generalize AEW fans like they're all the same. We're not. Like I've said a thousand times in this thread THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT AEW EITHER AND I SAY AS SUCH but I don't bitch and moan about it all day like y'all do.
> 
> ...


nailed it, but they won’t admit it.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> @bdon
> Exactly. And he's not the only one too. I don't understand it. It's not your promotion and they don't have to do things they way you want them to. This is a huge issue with wrestling fans today. If it's not what they want it sucks. Drop the entitlement.
> 
> And then this elitist bullshit...like really? Lmao such a joke
> ...


and another


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

bdon said:


> Mae Young wasn’t fine when I was a 14 year old, and Marko Stunt isn’t fine today when I’m nearly 36.
> 
> However much I hate him being in the ring, I ain’t getting pissed that he didn’t sell some sort of injury. Nothing that happened to him suggests he should be injured. Ciampa and Adam Cole fall off the top of goddamn WarGames Cage through a table with Adam Cole landing squarely on his fucking head, and yet Cole is wrestling the next night in a 30 minute barn burner and retaining his championship.
> 
> ...


correct also.


----------



## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> and another


If Mae Young was having back and forth bouts with Austin or Trish then your argument would make sense


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

bdon said:


> For the record, I know many, MANY people liked the Attitude Era, but if someone tells me flat out they enjoyed the WWE product at that time, then I am absolutely judging you as white-trash, Jerry Springer-loving, incestuous backwoods fucking ********.
> 
> That shit was fucking God awful. You want to talk about killing the business, that entire era did more to kill the business than it did in growing the business. Hulk Hogan’s boring 80s run grew the business more without killing it with stupid fucking daytime soap opera storylines.
> 
> I fucking hate WWE.


But but but...it drew money! Millions of people were watching so it was good and everything clicked! Austin and Rock! Austin and Rock!

But Seriously when I go back and watch the AE it's honestly horrible and does not hold up at all. It was product of it's time and it really shows in all it's trashy, shitty glory. But people wanna come at me with what I like? Especially when they don't even know what the hell I like lmao.

Shit. I'll go out on a limb and say The AE is why people view wrestling the way they do. But Marko Stunt is this huge problem? Lol okay.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Rozzop said:


> If Mae Young was having back and forth bouts with Austin or Trish then your argument would make sense


oh is that the goalposts moving again?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

bdon said:


> Mae Young wasn’t fine when I was a 14 year old, and Marko Stunt isn’t fine today when I’m nearly 36.
> 
> However much I hate him being in the ring, I ain’t getting pissed that he didn’t sell some sort of injury. Nothing that happened to him suggests he should be injured. Ciampa and Adam Cole fall off the top of goddamn WarGames Cage through a table with Adam Cole landing squarely on his fucking head, and yet Cole is wrestling the next night in a 30 minute barn burner and retaining his championship.
> 
> ...


See that's cool. You're being consistent and I like that. 

When it comes to the whole "unrealistic" shit I just don't care. I just take it for what it is and enjoy it. There are a few things that bother me like Finishers being devauled but to me it's whatever. I'm not one to nitpick and cry about realism and I guess that's where I differ.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But but but...it drew money! Millions of people were watching so it was good and everything clicked! Austin and Rock! Austin and Rock!
> 
> But Seriously when I go back and watch the AE it's honestly horrible and does not hold up at all. It was product of it's time and it really shows in all it's trashy, shitty glory. But people wanna come at me with what I like? Especially when they don't even know what the hell I like lmao.
> 
> Shit. I'll go out on a limb and say The AE is why people view wrestling the way they do. But Marko Stunt is this huge problem? Lol okay.


I ducking loathe the Attitude Era. FaceBook has the stupid fucking Austin dressed as a doctor to beat up Vince with a bed pan meme on it once a month. It isn’t, because wrestling was cool. It was funny for upper white class to laugh at the idiot, drunk *******. It was stupid entertainment for working class people who dreamed of kicking their boss’s ass. But NONE OF IT WAS BELIEVABLE!

Attitude Era fucking sucks, and anyone who liked it REALLY has terrible fucking taste for what constitutes “pro rasslin”.

And again, I am one of those who hate Stunt, but nothing in that goddamn match suggested he should be selling the injury.


----------



## Rozzop (Aug 26, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> oh is that the goalposts moving again?


I dunno i havent read most of the thread. But Mae Young was a sideshow, exactly what Stunt should be.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

bdon said:


> I ducking loathe the Attitude Era. FaceBook has the stupid fucking Austin dressed as a doctor to beat up Vince with a bed pan meme on it once a month. It isn’t, because wrestling was cool. It was funny for upper white class to laugh at the idiot, drunk *******. *It was stupid entertainment for working class people who dreamed of kicking their boss’s ass. But NONE OF IT WAS BELIEVABLE!*
> 
> Attitude Era fucking sucks, and anyone who liked it REALLY has terrible fucking taste for what constitutes “pro rasslin”.
> 
> And again, I am one of those who hate Stunt, but nothing in that goddamn match suggested he should be selling the injury.


Exactly. I mean Vince could've easily fired Austin if he wanted to but never did.....

Hell. Wrestling probably wasn't even cool back then: It just fit into what pop was at at the time and when that time passed so did wrestling's time in the sun. It was a fad. Nothing more and nothing less. 

As for Marko I agree. I mean..where was he supposed to be hurt? Iike I don't get it..


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> As for Marko I agree. I mean..where was he supposed to be hurt? Iike I don't get it..


a 14 year old girl with some sort of sports experience faces brock lesnar and gets the same beating archer gave stunt. she's on the next weeks show smiling and standing up to another giant? do you get that? or you don't get that? 

Would that be ok for you?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Swan-San said:


> a 14 year old girl with some sort of sports experience faces brock lesnar and gets the same beating archer gave stunt. she's on the next weeks show smiling and standing up to another giant? do you get that? or you don't get that?
> 
> Would that be ok for you?


If he didn't do anything to suggest that she should be hurt than that'd be fine by me. It's WWE. it doesn't matter.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Swan-San said:


> a 14 year old girl with some sort of sports experience faces brock lesnar and gets the same beating archer gave stunt. she's on the next weeks show smiling and standing up to another giant? do you get that? or you don't get that?
> 
> Would that be ok for you?


It's wrestling; that bullshit realism has no place here...is apparently the mindset I'm supposed to have.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Rozzop said:


> I dunno i havent read most of the thread. But Mae Young was a sideshow, exactly what Stunt should be.


And he is


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's wrestling; that bullshit realism has no place here...is apparently the mindset I'm supposed to have.


I respect this. I stand by it.

I just didn’t think it applied in this case. Archer came off like a hulk, who actually took it easy on Marko.

I mean, you can check my history. I am fully capable of calling “shit!” when I see shit. Marko in a match IS inherently shit, but his lack of injuries, at leas for me, is not shit. Archer just didn’t look like someone trying to kill him, except for the post match stuff. And even that is excused by logic, because while
I’m sure it hurt having his ribs crashing into a bunch guys’ heads and shoulders, it is still not like landing on cement, guard rail, tables, etc.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

bdon said:


> I respect this. I stand by it.
> 
> I just didn’t think it applied in this case. Archer came off like a hulk, who actually took it easy on Marko.
> 
> ...


I know dude, it honestly wasn't directed toward you, but I saw that exact line earlier in the thread and I was just taken aback by it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> I know dude, it honestly wasn't directed toward you, but I saw that exact line earlier in the thread and I was just taken aback by it.


Oh, I wasn’t taking offense. I was just stating my case, hoping someone could convince me that I missed a massive power bomb or something.

All I have deducted is that AEW _should have _had Lance Archer kill Marko Stunt on sheer size advantage alone. And technically, I agree. I think it would have given Archer far more heat and character development to have him sit on Marko Stunt and look like someone who just broke the 4th wall and is now literally pummeling this poor kid.

But I learned long ago to not get upset when the cat gets skinned in opposing fashion. I am fully expecting Brodie Lee to either do what Archer SHOULD have done or basically offer him refuge within the ranks of Dark Order after overpowering him some.

And the latter falls right in line with long term storytelling as the Dark Order were trying to get Marko to join back in November, maybe December just a few episodes before the Dec 18 debacle.

My point is that logic and realism wasn’t broken for me that match, other than the fact that Marko Stunt is inherently stupid.


----------



## RainmakerV2 (Nov 8, 2017)

Danielallen1410 said:


> if Brodie lee does anything but squash him it’s an issue.
> 
> if he squashes him as he will, then it’s not even worth a discussion.
> 
> its jut filler during the pandemic. Simple as that.


Dude. It could be September ish or even 2021 till there are live crowds again. How long are you just gonna go on with pointless filler? WWE is still moving along and paying off angles. Eventually AEW is gonna have to do the same.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. It could be September ish or even 2021 till there are live crowds again. How long are you just gonna go on with pointless filler? WWE is still moving along and paying off angles. Eventually AEW is gonna have to do the same.


And this is where I stand. I understand they were trying to play it safe to see where things would be in a few weeks’ time.

Here is where we are. You treat it like the new norm, have your guys show up for the shows, and if they can’t or won’t, that’s understandable, but the show must go on.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

El Hammerstone said:


> It's wrestling; that bullshit realism has no place here...is apparently the mindset I'm supposed to have.


Noone said you had to think a certain way but okay.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. It could be September ish or even 2021 till there are live crowds again. How long are you just gonna go on with pointless filler? WWE is still moving along and paying off angles. Eventually AEW is gonna have to do the same.


i think when they have more of a roster it will improve.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

bdon said:


> And this is where I stand. I understand they were trying to play it safe to see where things would be in a few weeks’ time.
> 
> Here is where we are. You treat it like the new norm, have your guys show up for the shows, and if they can’t or won’t, that’s understandable, but the show must go on.


and the show has gone on, and they’ve had a very limited roster, I’m expecting more to appear next week or whenever it is they can tape again.


----------



## Swan-San (May 25, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> If he didn't do anything to suggest that she should be hurt than that'd be fine by me. It's WWE. it doesn't matter.


fair enough, we watch wrestling for different reasons then and there's nothing more to argue. Anything other than a 13 year old girl getting confirmed dead by brock lesnar ragdolling her would be it for me.


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> and the show has gone on, and they’ve had a very limited roster, I’m expecting more to appear next week or whenever it is they can tape again.


Stop


Danielallen1410 said:


> And he is





Danielallen1410 said:


> and the show has gone on, and they’ve had a very limited roster, I’m expecting more to appear next week or whenever it is they can tape again.


Stop On defense


----------



## kingfrass44 (Sep 19, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> And he is


he is Not is


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

kingfrass44 said:


> Stop
> 
> 
> 
> Stop On defense


facts.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

kingfrass44 said:


> he is Not is


 Yes he is, when has he been in a main storyline?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So some old bitch birthing a hand doesn't make wrestling look dumb and fake but somehow Marko Stunt does? Okay.


I thought we were discussing Mae Young's gimmick of her getting her tits out which occurred in early 2000. Personally it wasn't my cup of tea but it didn't really shit on the wrestling industry either to have this old woman who thought she was just as hot as the WWF Divas who actually were hot running around trying to show off. It was a comedy angle but it didn't hurt anyone or bury the business so it was fine.

The hand thing admittedly was stupid as I've admitted in this thread (Or maybe another one) in the past but again whilst being a stupid angle it didn't really bury anyone just made wrestling look silly. Also as I've said before it was incredibly easy to overlook this odd midcard comedy angle because at the same time you had Foley/Triple H going to war with one another and tossing themselves into thumbtacks, you had one of The Rock's best years in wrestling and generally a pretty awesome wrestling show. With AEW you're getting the silly shit force fed down your throat and the serious stuff which is usually decent is overshadowed by it.



The Raw Smackdown said:


> @bdon
> 
> I remember fondly mae young wrestling and getting powerbombed and shit in her old age. That's okay but Marko Stunt is a problem? And I don't wanna hear this "well wrestling was bigger back then" It don't fucking matter. If Mae young existing is fine then Marko is fine too. Period


Okay so Mae Young wrestling admittedly was stupid unless it was part of some legends tag which I recall it not being. Moolah as well won the WWF Women's Title as a senior citizen which was shit totally agree. I don't think Mae Young getting a powerbomb through a table or off the stage is a bad idea though as a matter of fact it's good business. Those dastardly heels beat the shit out of an innocent old woman how dare they.



bdon said:


> I mean, you can check my history. I am fully capable of calling “shit!” when I see shit. Marko in a match IS inherently shit, but his lack of injuries, at leas for me, is not shit. Archer just didn’t look like someone trying to kill him, except for the post match stuff. And even that is excused by logic, because while
> I’m sure it hurt having his ribs crashing into a bunch guys’ heads and shoulders, it is still not like landing on cement, guard rail, tables, etc.


Off the top of my head he hit him with his finisher twice, tossed him to the floor hard and hit a wide variety of wrestling moves on him before launching him into the crowd. If that's "didn't look like trying to kill him" I'd have to question what would be. Archer did everything within the confines of a legal wrestling match to really fuck Marko up and he couldn't so he's a pussy and Marko is Superman


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I thought we were discussing Mae Young's gimmick of her getting her tits out which occurred in early 2000. Personally it wasn't my cup of tea but it didn't really shit on the wrestling industry either to have this old woman who thought she was just as hot as the WWF Divas who actually were hot running around trying to show off. It was a comedy angle but it didn't hurt anyone or bury the business so it was fine.
> 
> The hand thing admittedly was stupid as I've admitted in this thread (Or maybe another one) in the past but again whilst being a stupid angle it didn't really bury anyone just made wrestling look silly. Also as I've said before it was incredibly easy to overlook this odd midcard comedy angle because at the same time you had Foley/Triple H going to war with one another and tossing themselves into thumbtacks, you had one of The Rock's best years in wrestling and generally a pretty awesome wrestling show. With AEW you're getting the silly shit force fed down your throat and the serious stuff which is usually decent is overshadowed by it.
> 
> ...


Not a single closed fist was thrown.
Wrestling moves hurt. They don’t injure. He clearly was thrown onto a group of wrestlers who broke most of his fall, not to the floor, or do you not want to have a serious discussion about this? If not, I can move along.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> Not a single closed fist was thrown.
> Wrestling moves hurt. They don’t injure. He clearly was thrown onto a group of wrestlers who broke most of his fall, not to the floor, or do you not want to have a serious discussion about this? If not, I can move along.


You clearly need a refresher on the match before saying stuff like "I can move along"

Go and rewatch the match and come back (It's on YouTube). Archer hits him with a shoulderblock midway through the match and Marko goes flying to the floor landing on the thin matting at ringside. He is up and moving within 10-15 seconds.

I watch a lot of rugby league football and even enjoy the NFL big hits compilations on YouTube. If Archer did that to a 6'0 110 KG football player they'd likely be down for a long time and getting attention from a trainer but 5'2 50 kilogram Marko Stunt is moving and not even unconscious from it all. He is superhuman or Archer is weak as piss.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You clearly need a refresher on the match before saying stuff like "I can move along"
> 
> Go and rewatch the match and come back (It's on YouTube). Archer hits him with a shoulderblock midway through the match and Marko goes flying to the floor landing on the thin matting at ringside. He is up and moving within 10-15 seconds.
> 
> I watch a lot of rugby league football and even enjoy the NFL big hits compilations on YouTube. If Archer did that to a 6'0 110 KG football player they'd likely be down for a long time and getting attention from a trainer but 5'2 50 kilogram Marko Stunt is moving and not even unconscious from it all. He is superhuman or Archer is weak as piss.


you really need to stop over analysing.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> you really need to stop over analysing.


Call it over analysing if you want to me over analysing implies that I've gone back and analysed it. I've watched it twice and that's been it.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Let's get something straight here.
> 
> YOU'RE the one with the problem okay? YOU'RE the one that's bitching about one guy that has no effect on anything YOU'RE the one that's mad so don't put your shit on me and act like I'm the problem. You're tired of the argument? YOU move the fuck on, take some responsibility and turn AEW off when Marko comes on if it bothers you that much. Also, It's so funny how you wanna sit here and generalize AEW fans like they're all the same. We're not. Like I've said a thousand times in this thread THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT AEW EITHER AND I SAY AS SUCH but I don't bitch and moan about it all day like y'all do.
> 
> ...


Many of our complaints on here have seen changes occur on the show. Unless you're a mod you don't have any power and I'll continue to raise points about the parts I dislike. 

You and anyone else who says they're ok with Stunt are a problem in my eyes. You're willing to settle for below average and that's not good. I've turned off AEW plenty of times when there was something I didn't care about at all on. I like Brodie Lee, so I would like to watch his feuds so I won't be turning it off. AEW superfans act pretty similar, man. You're all a bit crazy when someone questions you as well. 

And finally, how come every time someone points out a negative in AEW the argument they receive from the sycophants is "BUT WWE DID SOMETHING SILLY TOO". Yeah, most people hated on those silly things too. And most of us have been put off the WWE product for over a decade. That specific argument doesn't help your cause. We all hated Hornswoggle, we all hated the hand. At least we can admit that, unlike you with your cousin Marko Stunt.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> @bdon
> Exactly. And he's not the only one too. I don't understand it. It's not your promotion and they don't have to do things they way you want them to. This is a huge issue with wrestling fans today. If it's not what they want it sucks. Drop the entitlement.
> 
> And then this elitist bullshit...like really? Lmao such a joke
> ...


Who said it was okay though? You're arguing against points you've fabricated out of nowhere.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> you really need to stop over analysing.


You keep talking about over analysing, but this is surface level stuff in plain sight for anyone to see; stop over analysing at this point seems to be code for "just shut your brain off".


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Not a single closed fist was thrown.
> Wrestling moves hurt. They don’t injure. He clearly was thrown onto a group of wrestlers who broke most of his fall, not to the floor, or do you not want to have a serious discussion about this? If not, I can move along.


He also looks like he has the bone density of a child. Wrestling moves hurt grown adults. They injure people of Marko's size, especially when being given by someone like Archer. He should not have shown up the next week which was actually the same day in real life as the show was pre-recorded. If they're going to use him as a jobber he should at least sell that he had the shit beaten out of him, otherwise it just looks like he's lost a match and it's a waste of time.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> He also looks like he has the bone density of a child. Wrestling moves hurt grown adults. They injure people of Marko's size, especially when being given by someone like Archer. He should not have shown up the next week which was actually the same day in real life as the show was pre-recorded. If they're going to use him as a jobber he should at least sell that he had the shit beaten out of him, otherwise it just looks like he's lost a match and it's a waste of time.


Again I say, to me it looked like Archer wasn’t looking to injure the kid. He held back.

And funny, I say a closed fist was never thrown, and this guy, @Chip Chipperson, talks about a shoulder block. I played football. Trust me, I have been hit with a blindside shoulder block. Yes, it fucking hurt and rings your bell. No, it does not fucking injure you.

And you can lose the condescending talk, prick. I am not some bubbly AEW sychophant. I hate Marko being out there. He SHOULD act scared, but I’m letting the story play out to see what the pay off is. I just don’t believe anything occurred that suggests Marko should be hurt. It looked like a big menacing guy done just enough to be a prick without trying to injure him. Not a single move that focused on folding Marko up like a rag doll, nothing that crashed him onto the unforgiving concrete, not a single closed fist, nothing.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> Who said it was okay though? You're arguing against points you've fabricated out of nowhere.





Cult03 said:


> Many of our complaints on here have seen changes occur on the show. Unless you're a mod you don't have any power and I'll continue to raise points about the parts I dislike.
> 
> You and anyone else who says they're ok with Stunt are a problem in my eyes. You're willing to settle for below average and that's not good. I've turned off AEW plenty of times when there was something I didn't care about at all on. I like Brodie Lee, so I would like to watch his feuds so I won't be turning it off. AEW superfans act pretty similar, man. You're all a bit crazy when someone questions you as well.
> 
> And finally, how come every time someone points out a negative in AEW the argument they receive from the sycophants is "BUT WWE DID SOMETHING SILLY TOO". Yeah, most people hated on those silly things too. And most of us have been put off the WWE product for over a decade. That specific argument doesn't help your cause. We all hated Hornswoggle, we all hated the hand. At least we can admit that, unlike you with your cousin Marko Stunt.


OK Cool. Stay mad over nothing I guess. You're life, your choice, your call. No Skin off my ass.

Also. Someone in here said that Mae young wasn't a problem. So if she wasn't a problem. Neither is Marko. Period. Don't give a fuck what you say.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

bdon said:


> And funny, I say a closed fist was never thrown, and this guy, @Chip Chipperson, talks about a shoulder block. I played football. Trust me, I have been hit with a blindside shoulder block. Yes, it fucking hurt and rings your bell. No, it does not fucking injure you.


Been hit with a shoulder block by someone double your height and almost triple your weight from a platform (Wrestling ring) to a floor? If a shoulder block is ringing your bell as a normal sized person can you imagine what it'd do to someone resembling a 14 year old?




The Raw Smackdown said:


> Also. Someone in here said that Mae young wasn't a problem. So if she wasn't a problem. Neither is Marko. Period. Don't give a fuck what you say.


That's not how a debate works.

Mae Young had some stupid skits but she was treated like a small frail old woman who was crazy and off her rocker. When the Dudley Boys powerbombed her through the table in the year 2000 she didn't pop up the next week on television completely uninjured trying to get into a fight with Kane. They powerbombed her and I believe she was gone for a very long time after it selling the injuries.

Your argument here in this thread is that it'd be totally fine for Mae Young to return uninjured the next week after getting powerbombed and to be getting into confrontations with guys like Big Show, Kane and The Undertaker because "Wrestling is fake". See how ridiculous that scenario is?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Been hit with a shoulder block by someone double your height and almost triple your weight from a platform (Wrestling ring) to a floor? If a shoulder block is ringing your bell as a normal sized person can you imagine what it'd do to someone resembling a 14 year old?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is is that if a old ass woman can exist in wrestling so can Marko. Doesn't matter what they're doing. You get it now?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Delete.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Again I say, to me it looked like Archer wasn’t looking to injure the kid. He held back.
> 
> And funny, I say a closed fist was never thrown, and this guy, @Chip Chipperson, talks about a shoulder block. I played football. Trust me, I have been hit with a blindside shoulder block. Yes, it fucking hurt and rings your bell. No, it does not fucking injure you.
> 
> And you can lose the condescending talk, prick. I am not some bubbly AEW sychophant. I hate Marko being out there. He SHOULD act scared, but I’m letting the story play out to see what the pay off is. I just don’t believe anything occurred that suggests Marko should be hurt. It looked like a big menacing guy done just enough to be a prick without trying to injure him. Not a single move that focused on folding Marko up like a rag doll, nothing that crashed him onto the unforgiving concrete, not a single closed fist, nothing.


Which part was condescending in my response to you? 

I'm just saying he should have sold it a week at least to make it look like it matters when Archer beats the shit out of you. If Marko Stunt can cop a beating and be back the next week, ready to pick a fight with another giant then it makes Archer look pretty weak. Am I wrong? It's just an unnecessary mistake that could have been easily fixed.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> OK Cool. Stay mad over nothing I guess. You're life, your choice, your call. No Skin off my ass.
> 
> Also. Someone in here said that Mae young wasn't a problem. So if she wasn't a problem. Neither is Marko. Period. Don't give a fuck what you say.


Ok thanks for your permission.

The fact that you think Mae Young throwing some slaps or low blows every once in a while, getting murdered and not showing up for a while and Marko Stunt getting beaten up and returning, without any signs of the beating he took and picking a fight with another giant are even similar means you're not really paying attention. Characters are still needed in this business (Why do I keep telling AEW fans this?) and Mae Young paid her dues in the business. She was a sympathetic babyface who helped the heels gain heat when she was hurt by them. If they aren't getting sympathy from the fans for getting beaten down, what part do they play in this business? Marko Stunt is basically a heel at this point.

Did Archer get heat for what he did to Stunt? Nope. Every single person wanted him to get beaten down.
Did the Dudley's get heat for powerbombing Mae Young through tables? Yes
Did JBL get heat for trying to murder Hornswoggle? Yep
Did Lesnar get heat for beating the crap out of Zach Gowen? Absolutely


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> Which part was condescending in my response to you?
> 
> I'm just saying he should have sold it a week at least to make it look like it matters when Archer beats the shit out of you. If Marko Stunt can cop a beating and be back the next week, ready to pick a fight with another giant then it makes Archer look pretty weak. Am I wrong? It's just an unnecessary mistake that could have been easily fixed.


That was t directed at you, @Cult03. I probably should have used a multi quote to break things up a bit. My apologies.

And yeah. I agree. It is BETTER television and storytelling if Marko simply sells the beat down by not showing up.

But I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to see where the Marko vs Brodie Lee story and fallout goes. Seems way too weird that they have him facing two big guys so quickly without some sort of payoff.

What that payoff may be, we shall see.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

im going to end my opinions on this subject.

its Clear chip and cult just have their opinion.

there is no chance whatsoever of them saying “do you know what, yeah you’ve got a point”

both or you think you are right, are unwilling to see the other side.

me and others have repeatedly said we don’t particularly care for Marko but explained why we don’t think it’s that big a deal, at no point haVe you even considered anyone else’s opinion, it’s just fingers in the ears stuff.

I’ll end my opinion on I don’t particularly want Marko on my tv, he doesn’t entertain me, I don’t look forward to seeing him, but his presence also doesn’t bother me, I don’t over analyse whether he should be injured from a few wrestling moves, whether he should or shouldn’t be crying at the prospect of fighting.... to me none of those things really matter, and in my opinion if you are letting it bother you so much that you spend a week or so going back and forth on an internet forum repeating yourself trying to tell people who enjoy the show, that they shouldn’t, you’ve got some serious negativity issues.

ive even looking for a definition for you people and this is it

*killjoy*


> noun
> a person who deliberately spoils the enjoyment of others.
> "a few killjoys try to reform the seasonal activities"
> synonyms: spoilsport, moaner, complainer, mope, prophet of doom, Cassandra,
> Jeremiah, death's head at a feast


its that simple.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> im going to end my opinions on this subject.
> 
> its Clear chip and cult just have their opinion.
> 
> ...


So you're leaving it there without responding to the last statement I made? Cool. If others posting on a forum is ruining your enjoyment, maybe it's time to log off for a while.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> So you're leaving it there without responding to the last statement I made? Cool. If others posting on a forum is ruining your enjoyment, maybe it's time to log off for a while.


like I say , it’s pointless, if I make a good point you will not say “oh yes I didn’t think of that“

you’ll just spout a YOUR opinion again over and over.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Danielallen1410 said:


> you’ll just spout a YOUR opinion again over and over.


Isn't that kind of what a forum is for?


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Isn't that kind of what a forum is for?


no it’s to discuss, not to spout your opinion over and over.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> no it’s to discuss, not to spout your opinion over and over.


And discussions on various subjects will see a variety of opinions from different people, not a hard concept to grasp. 

Brodie Lee defeats Marko Stunt on Dynamite, "oh look, Brodie Lee won the match." Is this what you expect the forum to be? Something happens, and people will have things to say about it, for better or worse.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> And discussions on various subjects will see a variety of opinions from different people, not a hard concept to grasp.
> 
> Brodie Lee defeats Marko Stunt on Dynamite, "oh look, Brodie Lee won the match." Is this what you expect the forum to be? Something happens, and people will have things to say about it, for better or worse.


Well, I enjoy hearing everyone’s version of things. I ENJOY seeing a different perspective that makes me say, “Hmmm. Let me think on that.”

Even if I ultimately disagree, it is nice to see outside of my prism of things.

I am not saying you do that. I feel like only @The Wood has his feet dug that far into the sand to where he won’t hear anyone else’s viewpoint, but that doesn’t mean I don’t still want to hear his take.


----------



## elidrakefan76 (Jul 23, 2018)

I can see a storyline where Stunt loses (as expected) and then begins to show a desire to join the Dark Order. That would make sense since he's usually on the losing end of matches. But otherwise, Lee should win relatively quickly or else it will just make him and the Dark Order look weak.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> And discussions on various subjects will see a variety of opinions from different people, not a hard concept to grasp.
> 
> Brodie Lee defeats Marko Stunt on Dynamite, "oh look, Brodie Lee won the match." Is this what you expect the forum to be? Something happens, and people will have things to say about it, for better or worse.


repeating the same argument over and over is the issue.

no problem with the difference of opinion, I just find with certain posters the discussiom goes round in circles until they grind everyone down, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of those peoples discussion end with them either changing their opinion or seeing someone else’s viewpoint, those people arent discussing, they are just telling everyone what they think should happen and presenting that as absolute fact as thought their way is the only way, in this debate I’ve come up with about four different scenarios to explain some reasoning behind it, even though it’s not my cup of tea. Each time the posters who strongly object to it have either dismissed it out of hand, moved the goalposts or just simply repeated the same point that I’ve countered.

its boring and on this subject I’m admitting defeat, not because I think I’m wrong but because I’ve been ground into submission, and I no longer care enough to waste my energy on people who are negative.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Danielallen1410 said:


> repeating the same argument over and over is the issue.
> 
> no problem with the difference of opinion, I just find with certain posters the discussiom goes round in circles until they grind everyone down, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of those peoples discussion end with them either changing their opinion or seeing someone else’s viewpoint, those people arent discussing, they are just telling everyone what they think should happen and presenting that as absolute fact as thought their way is the only way, in this debate I’ve come up with about four different scenarios to explain some reasoning behind it, even though it’s not my cup of tea. Each time the posters who strongly object to it have either dismissed it out of hand, moved the goalposts or just simply repeated the same point that I’ve countered.
> 
> its boring and on this subject I’m admitting defeat, not because I think I’m wrong but because I’ve been ground into submission, and I no longer care enough to waste my energy on people who are negative.



No one is forcing you to take part in a discussion you wanted no part in, you're free to ignore it any time you please if it bothers you that much.
I can't speak for others, but I haven't moved any goalposts; my arguments have remained entirely consistent. That whole thing with Mae Young was garbage and I never stated otherwise.
People are "negative" because they see a company in prime position to do something special and don't like seeing it bogged down by issues that are easily fixable. The fact that AEW exists right now is practically a miracle and if it fails to succeed, who knows when, if ever, another promotion will ever be able to step into a position like this.
People haven't changed their minds because "you're over analysing", "he's just a jobber", "I don't complain about every little thing that I don't like", and "it's wrestling and bullshit realism has no place here" are not compelling enough arguments to sway anyone who has put a second of thought into this.
Like you, I too am done, we'll just have to agree to disagree.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

Cult03 said:


> Ok thanks for your permission.
> 
> The fact that you think Mae Young throwing some slaps or low blows every once in a while, getting murdered and not showing up for a while and Marko Stunt getting beaten up and returning, without any signs of the beating he took and picking a fight with another giant are even similar means you're not really paying attention. Characters are still needed in this business (Why do I keep telling AEW fans this?) and Mae Young paid her dues in the business. She was a sympathetic babyface who helped the heels gain heat when she was hurt by them. If they aren't getting sympathy from the fans for getting beaten down, what part do they play in this business? Marko Stunt is basically a heel at this point.
> 
> ...


My point still stands.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

El Hammerstone said:


> People haven't changed their minds because "you're over analysing", "he's just a jobber", "I don't complain about every little thing that I don't like", and "it's wrestling and bullshit realism has no place here" are not compelling enough arguments to sway anyone who has put a second of thought into this.


You wouldn't have changed you mind regardless. 

This is the last thing Ima say because this is boring and has gone on long enough. We all gonna think what we think.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> No one is forcing you to take part in a discussion you wanted no part in, you're free to ignore it any time you please if it bothers you that much.
> I can't speak for others, but I haven't moved any goalposts; my arguments have remained entirely consistent. That whole thing with Mae Young was garbage and I never stated otherwise.
> People are "negative" because they see a company in prime position to do something special and don't like seeing it bogged down by issues that are easily fixable. The fact that AEW exists right now is practically a miracle and if it fails to succeed, who knows when, if ever, another promotion will ever be able to step into a position like this.
> People haven't changed their minds because "you're over analysing", "he's just a jobber", "I don't complain about every little thing that I don't like", and "it's wrestling and bullshit realism has no place here" are not compelling enough arguments to sway anyone who has put a second of thought into this.
> Like you, I too am done, we'll just have to agree to disagree.


the point is certain people wouldn’t have changed their mind whatever was said, you get that vibe from people and I find them the worst. The best type of people are open to other people’s opinions, and the people I’ve been most agitated by show none of these traits.

i can guarantee if I go down their history there won’t be one post where they say “oh yes I got that wrong, you are right” to anything at all, they are ALWAYS right in their minds, thus its better not to engage.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> like I say , it’s pointless, if I make a good point you will not say “oh yes I didn’t think of that“
> 
> you’ll just spout a YOUR opinion again over and over.


You're yet to make a good point


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> My point still stands.


Your point still sucks


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> You're yet to make a good point


And there you go. Presenting your opinion as fact. High opinion of yourself.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> And there you go. Presenting your opinion as fact. High opinion of yourself.


No no, I'm presenting your opinion as terrible. It's different.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> No no, I'm presenting your opinion as terrible. It's different.


in your opinion!


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> in your opinion!


Yes. Every single thing anyone says on here is an opinion. I don't need to preface every post I make by saying "in my opinion". Do you understand that, Garty?


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Yes. Every single thing anyone says on here is an opinion. I don't need to preface every post I make by saying "in my opinion". Do you understand that, Garty?


You present yours as fact over and over.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> You present yours as fact over and over.


I think maybe you see what I say, notice how much you believe what I'm saying and instead of just saying "Yeah, you're right", you choose to argue. But not really argue, you're basically just say things because you're literally adding nothing else to this discussion. My opinion isn't better than yours because it's fact, it's better because yours is bad. It's basically a win by default, but I'll take it!


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> I think maybe you see what I say, notice how much you believe what I'm saying and instead of just saying "Yeah, you're right", you choose to argue. But not really argue, you're basically just say things because you're literally adding nothing else to this discussion. My opinion isn't better than yours because it's fact, it's better because yours is bad. It's basically a win by default, but I'll take it!


if that makes you feel better believe it. I think you are wrong for reasons I’ve explained over and over.

let’s leave it at that.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> if that makes you feel better believe it. I think you are wrong for reasons I’ve explained over and over.
> 
> let’s leave it at that.


Ok, Garty.


----------



## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> Ok, Garty.


I have no idea what Garty is. Perhaps an american term that’s lost on me.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> I have no idea what Garty is. Perhaps an american term that’s lost on me.


Honestly, I don't know either. I think there's something wrong with the site because every time I type Garty, it changes it to Garty as soon as I post.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

You guys know what I noticed? Marko Stunt never even had to be involved in these jobber matches because sitting ringside for every TV show over the past few weeks were both Austin and Billy Gunn. Apparently they've been competing on AEW Dark so they wrestled on these tapings which makes me think someone in the back legitimately sees something in Marko and it wasn't just putting him on out of desperation.

Brodie Lee and Lance Archer putting Billy Gunn away in 3-4 minutes mean something even in 2020 and Billy Gunn seems chill enough to get out there and do it. If he refuses because he's too big of a star have his son do it.


----------



## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

As I have said, I don’t like Marko. I don’t like that Brodie didn’t demolish him or use the growing story to recruit Marko. I didn’t like seeing a highlight that Archer DID in fact punch Marko, and Marko no-sold it by showing up the following week (I didn’t see that punch when I watched the first time, so I admit to being wrong).

HOWEVER, I do think suggesting someone’s taste is “shit” is wrong. I hated watching Attitude Era and Austin/McMahon. It was not the least bit believable. And now my social media is littered with memes posted by people that I KNOW FOR A FACT DID NOT WATCH WRESTLING: all posting clips from Austin beating McMahon’s ass. These are people laughing AT the sport, not with it.

As a teenager, I had no idea why I hated WWE so much, but I just knew I did. All of my friends and family acted as if I was wrong. I just knew it didn’t feel “real” at all, so even as a 14 year old, I found myself watching that show and the shit they put on in a way that Cornette does today.

The industry may have been doing great with that storyline, and Austin was the most over wrestler ever. Doesn’t mean it was good for business.

If you think Austin kicking McMahon’s ass, pretending to be a doctor, and clocking Vince with the bed pan is good wrestling, then I think YOUR taste is shit. And I have also now been forced to assume you’re a white trash hillbilly from my neck of the woods.

The point is that we can all like and dislike certain things. Doesn’t make anyone’s take “correct”. Just like I may have been wrong during the AE, I was proven right by that Jerry Springer-level TV slowly killing the business.

Disagreements are fine, but matter of factly speaking as those one’s opinion is the be-all, end-all just ain’t my cup of tea.


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

I couldn't give a shit about Marko, but that match could not have been any more one-sided. Squash matches exist for a reason in wrestling and Marko can sell well. I don't find him amusing or funny but he's just there to get his ass kicked so who really gives a shit.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

dan the marino said:


> I couldn't give a shit about Marko, but that match could not have been any more one-sided. Squash matches exist for a reason in wrestling and Marko can sell well. I don't find him amusing or funny but he's just there to get his ass kicked so who really gives a shit.


Read any of the pages on this thread to find out why we have an issue with it.


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

I read your original post and since it was about a 3 minute match at most with nearly no offense by Marko that post was objectively wrong so I don't care to read any further


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

dan the marino said:


> I read your original post and since it was about a 3 minute match at most with nearly no offense by Marko that post was objectively wrong so I don't care to read any further


What did the match achieve that a squash match with an adult sized human wouldn't have done better?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

dan the marino said:


> I read your original post and since it was about a 3 minute match at most with nearly no offense by Marko that post was objectively wrong so I don't care to read any further


But I openly said in that first post that the match would go a few minutes. To be fair the Brodie/Marko match wasn't as offensive as Archer/Marko but it still looks horrible when Brodie punts Marko in the face and Marko doesn't even pass out.


----------



## dan the marino (Oct 22, 2006)

^ Well for one he's actually over and known by the audience, unlike a random local jobber



Chip Chipperson said:


> But I openly said in that first post that the match would go a few minutes. To be fair the Brodie/Marko match wasn't as offensive as Archer/Marko but it still looks horrible when Brodie punts Marko in the face and Marko doesn't even pass out.


Of course it was going to go for longer than 30 seconds. I don't like Marko but he's known by the audience and is for whatever reason over. Someone said he was Scrappy Do and that's absolutely true but as irritating as he may be, him getting beaten up by a new talent for a couple minutes is not a topic that really needs 12 pages.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

dan the marino said:


> ^ Well for one he's actually over and known by the audience, unlike a random local jobber
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was going to go for longer than 30 seconds. I don't like Marko but he's known by the audience and is for whatever reason over. Someone said he was Scrappy Do and that's absolutely true but as irritating as he may be, him getting beaten up by a new talent for a couple minutes is not a topic that really needs 12 pages.


If you read the other pages you'll see that people actually tried to debate Marko being good for business and a pretty good discussion on reality in wrestling.


----------



## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

dan the marino said:


> ^ Well for one he's actually over and known by the audience, unlike a random local jobber
> 
> 
> 
> Of course it was going to go for longer than 30 seconds. I don't like Marko but he's known by the audience and is for whatever reason over. Someone said he was Scrappy Do and that's absolutely true but as irritating as he may be, him getting beaten up by a new talent for a couple minutes is not a topic that really needs 12 pages.


Over? With who? His job is to be a sympathetic babyface but every single viewer wanted to see him get his head knocked off. When JBL murdered Hornswoggle, people felt sorry for him. When Archer and Brodie murdered Stunt, people were like, cool, hopefully he's done now. A random local jobber has the opportunity to garner sympathy from the viewers, possibly even get himself over in the process. That opportunity was gone for Stunt the moment he debuted. 

SCRAPPY DOO WAS A CARTOON CHARACTER. Cartoons don't have to resemble reality in any way whatsoever.

You're right about this not needing 12 pages though, people should have admitted that there were far better options on the first page.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Cult03 said:


> SCRAPPY DOO WAS A CARTOON CHARACTER. Cartoons don't have to resemble reality in any way whatsoever.


People seem to forget as well that Scrappy Doo was pretty much universally panned and considered one of the death knells of that show, much like Cousin Oliver to the Brady Bunch.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

I think people neglect the fact that jobbers shouldn't actually be over either. If Marko Stunt is over as a job guy he's not being a good job guy.

Kind of like a referee that you constantly notice. If you constantly notice the ref they're doing a shit job.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> People seem to forget as well that Scrappy Doo was pretty much universally panned and considered one of the death knells of that show, much like Cousin Oliver to the Brady Bunch.


People seem to forget a lot of things that don't suit their argument man. It's obvious that Stunt isn't the best option but people won't admit it because it means admitting AEW isn't perfect


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## Danielallen1410 (Nov 21, 2016)

Cult03 said:


> People seem to forget a lot of things that don't suit their argument man. It's obvious that Stunt isn't the best option but people won't admit it because it means admitting AEW isn't perfect


We still going on about this? 😂😂


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

Danielallen1410 said:


> We still going on about this? 😂😂


Marko Stunt lives rent free in their heads lmao. He definitely has charisma in that case.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

Danielallen1410 said:


> We still going on about this? 😂😂


Just waiting for Dan to let me know how Marko Stunt is over, Garty.


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## Eyyaadchiekkk (Apr 17, 2020)

Marko stunt should be off tv forever


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## Piers (Sep 1, 2015)

I love seeing Shunt being tossed around.


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## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

All I'm going to say is that I've noticed an alarmingly strong correlation between those who have no issue with Marko Stunt and those who have no desire to appeal to casuals and have given up entirely on another company potentially challenging for the top spot.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> All I'm going to say is that I've noticed an alarmingly strong correlation between those who have no issue with Marko Stunt and those who have no desire to appeal to casuals and have given up entirely on another company potentially challenging for the top spot.


AEW fans accepting mediocrity is something I've argued against for a while. This company has a lot of good things going for them and could push WWE if they wanted to. For some reason they'd rather have an average show where silly things occur in every segment, winks to the camera showing how fake it is and a completely unbelievable product instead of a great pro wrestling company. 

The aim of AEW was to bring back the fans who lost interest. They just took a bunch of fans from NJPW (As well as their gaijins) and didn't bother with the casual fan because it meant they'd have to put in effort. The similarities between AEW and WWE are way too obvious at the moment and if things don't change in the next few months they're going to lose another massive bunch of fans as well. All Elite Wrestling, not Sometimes Elite Wrestling.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

El Hammerstone said:


> All I'm going to say is that I've noticed an alarmingly strong correlation between those who have no issue with Marko Stunt and those who have no desire to appeal to casuals and have given up entirely on another company potentially challenging for the top spot.


It's the weird thing that TNA fans had going on for years also. Some AEW fans feel like if they say anything negative about AEW it makes them less of a fan or unsupportive of the company therefore they will defend anything and accept anything.

If we saw a thread tomorrow saying Marko Stunt released none of his supporters in this thread would care. They simply support him because Cody and his boys do.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

El Hammerstone said:


> All I'm going to say is that I've noticed an alarmingly strong correlation between those who have no issue with Marko Stunt and those who have no desire to appeal to casuals and have given up entirely on another company potentially challenging for the top spot.


My ideal close to perfect Wrestling company, something that I feel is the "most" appealing to casuals is NXT. It suffers only from being match after match after match and it needs more segments to break things up and help the pacing and the character work. NXT needs more "Cody getting whipped" segments of sincere emotion. But that being said, of the four major wrestling weekly shows, my "Closest to ideal" casual friendly simple stories told well show has the lowest ratings consistently. 

Why shouldn't I give up on the notion of mainstream appeal? Takeovers are consistently the best shows in the country since... I can't remember the last time a group of PPV's has had such a hot consistent streak, and it's not raking in millions and millions of casuals. So that leaves what? Russo Jerry Springer booking to attempt to win over the lasped casuals? Cause I don't want that trashy bullshit again. I hate that more than I hate openly supernatural stuff in wrasslin. 

Casuals are not coming back. Your last best chance to win back casuals is to air Takeover PPV's on Netflix and Hulu, and promote them heavily with a really strong marketing campaign. That's like, literally the last thing you could try.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

MontyCora said:


> My ideal close to perfect Wrestling company, something that I feel is the "most" appealing to casuals is NXT. It suffers only from being match after match after match and it needs more segments to break things up and help the pacing and the character work. NXT needs more "Cody getting whipped" segments of sincere emotion. But that being said, of the four major wrestling weekly shows, my "Closest to ideal" casual friendly simple stories told well show has the lowest ratings consistently.
> 
> Why shouldn't I give up on the notion of mainstream appeal? Takeovers are consistently the best shows in the country since... I can't remember the last time a group of PPV's has had such a hot consistent streak, and it's not raking in millions and millions of casuals. So that leaves what? Russo Jerry Springer booking to attempt to win over the lasped casuals? Cause I don't want that trashy bullshit again. I hate that more than I hate openly supernatural stuff in wrasslin.
> 
> Casuals are not coming back. Your last best chance to win back casuals is to air Takeover PPV's on Netflix and Hulu, and promote them heavily with a really strong marketing campaign. That's like, literally the last thing you could try.


This is basically how I feel about it, too. Casuals have never cared for wrestling. It’s been a niche thing since the late 80s. It only grew when Russo introduced the stupid fucking Jerry Springer, crash TV bullshit that made me, a wrestling fan since 3-4 years old, leave for 2 decades.

I don’t care if the casuals return if it means buying into the belief that an employee can dress up as a doctor and beat the shit out of his CEO with a bed pan, hands being birthed, etc.

But that also doesn’t mean I want to see Marko fucking Stunt on my television after Matt Hardy teleports.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

MontyCora said:


> My ideal close to perfect Wrestling company, something that I feel is the "most" appealing to casuals is *NXT. It suffers only from being match after match after match and it needs more segments to break things up and help the pacing and the character work. * NXT needs more "Cody getting whipped" segments of sincere emotion. But that being said, of the four major wrestling weekly shows, my "Closest to ideal" casual friendly simple stories told well show has the lowest ratings consistently.
> 
> Why shouldn't I give up on the notion of mainstream appeal? Takeovers are consistently the best shows in the country since... I can't remember the last time a group of PPV's has had such a hot consistent streak, and it's not raking in millions and millions of casuals. So that leaves what? Russo Jerry Springer booking to attempt to win over the lasped casuals? Cause I don't want that trashy bullshit again. I hate that more than I hate openly supernatural stuff in wrasslin.
> 
> Casuals are not coming back. Your last best chance to win back casuals is to air Takeover PPV's on Netflix and Hulu, and promote them heavily with a really strong marketing campaign. That's like, literally the last thing you could try.


I think this is about to change with characters such as Karrion Kross and Dexter Lumis getting the spotlight. Seriously, these companies have all the tools to be entertaining and instead of trying to be different they should just do what works.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

When people say casual they're referring to casual wrestling fan not the average person on the street. Yes, AEW and probably even WWE are unlikely to ever attract average person on the street but with strong shows, good booking and big stars AEW very well could attract 37 year old Joe the mechanic who only watches RAW when he happens to see that it's on.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> This is basically how I feel about it, too. Casuals have never cared for wrestling. It’s been a niche thing since the late 80s. It only grew when Russo introduced the stupid fucking Jerry Springer, crash TV bullshit that made me, a wrestling fan since 3-4 years old, leave for 2 decades.
> 
> I don’t care if the casuals return if it means buying into the belief that an employee can dress up as a doctor and beat the shit out of his CEO with a bed pan, hands being birthed, etc.
> 
> But that also doesn’t mean I want to see Marko fucking Stunt on my television after Matt Hardy teleports.


If you put the best wrestling possibly has to offer, which in my mind is the best Takeover shows, and you put them in the biggest possible service with the most eyes on it, which is probably Netflix, and wrestling remains niche, then that is what it is destined to be.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> This is basically how I feel about it, too. Casuals have never cared for wrestling. It’s been a niche thing since the late 80s. It only grew when Russo introduced the stupid fucking Jerry Springer, crash TV bullshit that made me, a wrestling fan since 3-4 years old, leave for 2 decades.
> 
> I don’t care if the casuals return if it means buying into the belief that an employee can dress up as a doctor and beat the shit out of his CEO with a bed pan, hands being birthed, etc.
> 
> But that also doesn’t mean I want to see Marko fucking Stunt on my television after Matt Hardy teleports.


I don't think casuals were what AEW was aiming to bring in though. They were aiming to bring back the ex fan. Fans who enjoyed wrestling in whatever time period. There were millions of people who enjoyed wrestling at one point who could be brought back if the product improved.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

Cult03 said:


> I don't think casuals were what AEW was aiming to bring in though. They were aiming to bring back the ex fan. Fans who enjoyed wrestling in whatever time period. There were millions of people who enjoyed wrestling at one point who could be brought back if the product improved.


Get rid of Stunt, Chuckie T, and one, maybe 2 others who I’m forgetting actually are a staple of the real Dynamite shows (I know these guys wouldn’t be showcased this often on a normal episode), and I think you’d have a great show, man.

The negatives seem to bother some of y’all more than they do me. I don’t like them and wish they’d knock the shit off, but I remember Disco Inferno and Alex Wright segments. To which you will say they were camouflaged by the heavy hitters in the uppercard, and you’d be right. To which I would ask, “How well has NXT done using the super serious approach?”

I just absolutely believe the lost fans are too old to want to come back after 2 decades, or they were literally only watching for the Jerry Springer dumb shit.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

If Chuckie T hit the gym and cut really hard for like 6 months, and made a really impressive transformation I would honestly have zero problem with him.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> If Chuckie T hit the gym and cut really hard for like 6 months, and made a really impressive transformation I would honestly have zero problem with him.


He never will though. He does not take anything seriously. He could look like Scott Steiner and still think throwing an invisible hand grenade in the ring was something that should happen in wrestling. He just also happens to be a slob and bad worker no one should take seriously.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> Get rid of Stunt, Chuckie T, and one, maybe 2 others who I’m forgetting actually are a staple of the real Dynamite shows (I know these guys wouldn’t be showcased this often on a normal episode), and I think you’d have a great show, man.
> 
> The negatives seem to bother some of y’all more than they do me. I don’t like them and wish they’d knock the shit off, but I remember Disco Inferno and Alex Wright segments. To which you will say they were camouflaged by the heavy hitters in the uppercard, and you’d be right. To which I would ask, “How well has NXT done using the super serious approach?”
> 
> I just absolutely believe the lost fans are too old to want to come back after 2 decades, or they were literally only watching for the Jerry Springer dumb shit.


Get rid of anyone who doesn't take their job seriously or isn't close to being elite. That's Cutler, Chuckie T, Luther, Janela, Reynolds, Silver, Sabian, Stunt, Nakazawa, Avalon and QT Marshall (Many of these can work backstage anyway). They were all still getting their shit in before this covid stuff though and they shouldn't. 

The reason it pisses me off is because it said it was going to be different than WWE. Most of the segments they're involved in are too similar to WWE and the reason I've been less into wrestling than ever. NXT has the problem of being a WWE product and therefore some of the AEW fans won't even bother despite it more often than not being a better put together show. 

Maybe, but the fact that AEW hasn't tried to get those fans back tells me that they're lazy. And it's no wonder that Kenny isn't pushing himself to the top, half the roster looks like shit, nobody wants to evolve and they take the easy option when their leaders are doing the same.

I don't think they want to watch a Jerry Springer-like product anymore. Any attempt at that is cringy. They just want an evolution of the product. I think Lucha Underground and to whatever extent Matt Hardy (Or Jeremy Borash) are onto something with this cinematic aspect they're adding to the shows. Wrestling has always been behind on the times, apart from the Attitude Era which was perfectly timed, but they need to embrace what is actually cool these days. The storytelling shown in Marvel movies, the competitiveness and outlandish behavior of UFC, embarrassing ones self in public (Imagine Roman trying to fight The Rock at a red carpet event). 

Storylines matter more than anything in wrestling. Athleticism is cool and all, but eventually most people stop caring about it and want something more. AEW and NXT need to work this out. Take the good stuff and leave the bad stuff out and try to embrace the most popular aspects of pop culture at the moment.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> He never will though. He does not take anything seriously. He could look like Scott Steiner and still think throwing an invisible hand grenade in the ring was something that should happen in wrestling. He just also happens to be a slob and bad worker no one should take seriously.


I am a firm believer in the never give up on people approach. He COULD change tomorrow. It happens all the time. It's just up to him and some siesmic change in his perspective.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> I am a firm believer in the never give up on people approach. He COULD change tomorrow. It happens all the time. It's just up to him and some siesmic change in his perspective.


My point is it is not a 50/50 chance. The Rock COULD come out on AEW wearing a pink bunny suit with Marko Stunt on his back. That is not really a possibility worth thinking about though. Same with Chuck. He has shown zero signs of ever taking the wrestling business seriously. He is not going to flip 180 degrees overnight.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> My point is it is not a 50/50 chance. The Rock COULD come out on AEW wearing a pink bunny suit with Marko Stunt on his back. That is not really a possibility worth thinking about though. Same with Chuck. He has shown zero signs of ever taking the wrestling business seriously. He is not going to flip 180 degrees overnight.


And my point is the thing you're seeing as totally impossible and never ever going to happen no way no chance, happens all the time. People go from lazy motivationless fatass losers to slim highly motivated winners after some epiphany moment. Hell, Ric fucking Flair was a chubby nobody before a plane crash that almost killed him changed everything.


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## bdon (Nov 12, 2019)

@Cult03 please tell me you didn’t like that cinematic BS?


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> And my point is the thing you're seeing as totally impossible and never ever going to happen no way no chance, happens all the time. People go from lazy motivationless fatass losers to slim highly motivated winners after some epiphany moment. Hell, Ric fucking Flair was a chubby nobody before a plane crash that almost killed him changed everything.


I follow the evidence. There absolutely could be some epiphany, but there is no evidence it will happen. Why even waste the oxygen to mention it otherwise? Even if he had an epiphany, it would take him years to undue all the damage he has done and get in shape. Why even bother? Ric Flair is once in a generation as far as cardio goes. Chuck Taylor is well below average in every category. Even if he got it together, he would be midcard at best, plus all the baggage of his past.

Plus it does not "happen all the time." You are really misrepresenting how statistics work. The vast majority of things will not happen. Even if there is a 1% chance for someone who has shown zero signs of changing, there is the 99 out of 100 times they will not. It is not even worth a sentence being written for that likelihood. The dude is a waste of space. If he leaves AEW, improves, and comes back, OK. But he has zero reason to change anything he is doing right now. He is being paid to do goofy stuff every week. No motivation to see the inside of a gym.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> I follow the evidence. There absolutely could be some epiphany, but there is no evidence it will happen. Why even waste the oxygen to mention it otherwise? Even if he had an epiphany, it would take him years to undue all the damage he has done and get in shape. Why even bother? Ric Flair is once in a generation as far as cardio goes. Chuck Taylor is well below average in every category. Even if he got it together, he would be midcard at best, plus all the baggage of his past.
> 
> Plus it does not "happen all the time." You are really misrepresenting how statistics work. The vast majority of things will not happen. Even if there is a 1% chance for someone who has shown zero signs of changing, there is the 99 out of 100 times they will not. It is not even worth a sentence being written for that likelihood. The dude is a waste of space. If he leaves AEW, improves, and comes back, OK. But he has zero reason to change anything he is doing right now. He is being paid to do goofy stuff every week. No motivation to see the inside of a gym.


I don't understand how me saying "it happens all the time" is the same thing as "it usually happens with most people." Explain that to me. Explain how my statement was a declarative statistic.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> I don't understand how me saying "it happens all the time" is the same thing as "it usually happens with most people." Explain that to me. Explain how my statement was a declarative statistic.


I never equated the two things. I said it does not happen all the time. In fact it happens so rarely, it is not even worth bringing it up until you see a possible first step towards a change. There have been none with him, and in fact as I pointed out, he has zero current incentive to change. He is being put on national TV every week as a gymaphobe geek in a dumb angle, and he is being paid to do it. WHY would he change?


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

Lheurch said:


> I never equated the two things. I said it does not happen all the time. In fact it happens so rarely, it is not even worth bringing it up until you see a possible first step towards a change. There have been none with him, and in fact as I pointed out, he has zero current incentive to change. He is being put on national TV every week as a gymaphobe geek in a dumb angle, and he is being paid to do it. WHY would he change?


He's been openly criticized by JR gently a few times. Not open disses but "If he works on his physique he'll be a fantastic asset" which is a gentle sort of neg. Maybe right this moment that's on his mind and he's moments away from making some big changes. You don't know. 

I was heavy at one point in my life, and I had a personal epiphany that was entirely and completely based on me and me alone, and I guarantee if you were a personal friend of mine you'd be saying the same shit. "Based on observable evidence MontyCora is DEFINATELY not about to become a gym rat and get super ripped. He's financially secure. He has no "reason" to do it, and thus why would it happen??

You can't speak for others peoples perspectives. Maybe you're right and he's like "ehhh fuck that!" but maybe you're wrong. You DON'T know what you don't know. Humble yourself a bit.


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## spiderguy252000 (Aug 31, 2016)

I feel like I’m missing something... any time Marko was on Dynamite he would consistently getting pops and his name chanted. I feel like live crowds (Which are mostly hardcore AEW fans) eat his shtick up 🤷🏽‍♂️


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

MontyCora said:


> He's been openly criticized by JR gently a few times. Not open disses but "If he works on his physique he'll be a fantastic asset" which is a gentle sort of neg. Maybe right this moment that's on his mind and he's moments away from making some big changes. You don't know.
> 
> I was heavy at one point in my life, and I had a personal epiphany that was entirely and completely based on me and me alone, and I guarantee if you were a personal friend of mine you'd be saying the same shit. "Based on observable evidence MontyCora is DEFINATELY not about to become a gym rat and get super ripped. He's financially secure. He has no "reason" to do it, and thus why would it happen??
> 
> You can't speak for others peoples perspectives. Maybe you're right and he's like "ehhh fuck that!" but maybe you're wrong. You DON'T know what you don't know. Humble yourself a bit.


I can speak based on evidence. No one absolutely knows what will happen tomorrow, but thankfully we have probability and statistics to guide us. How many thousands of days did you wake up and do nothing to change? It is not like that one day came out of nowhere or was a 50/50 probability on any one given day. Also, just because one person at some point in history decided to go to a gym does not in any way influence a totally separate person. I get you want to be optimistic, but you are letting your own prejudice blind you. The data suggests otherwise.

JR has a great underhanded diss, I grant you that. A person who has been in charge of talent on and off for decades dissing a person in his own company is huge. JR saying he needs to work on his physique is pretty equivalent to being called a useless slob by most. And hey, there are many wrestlers without great physiques who are still great workers. Mick Foley instantly comes to mind. So it is not JUST that. He just has zero skills to offer. Nothing is special about him. Like I said earlier, he is below average in every single area.


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## MontyCora (Aug 31, 2016)

spiderguy252000 said:


> I feel like I’m missing something... any time Marko was on Dynamite he would consistently getting pops and his name chanted. I feel like live crowds (Which are mostly hardcore AEW fans) eat his shtick up 🤷🏽‍♂️


Well, the online folks around here think he's too small to be plausible even in his role as "little guy who big bullies beat the shit out of", and it really REALLY bugs some people. Jim Cornette won't shut the fuck up about it. 

I dunno. He's a little guy with more courage and heart than brains who never gives up who gets fucking destroyed. If you ask me that's a pretty common wrestling trope. But I guess "too small is too small!"


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

bdon said:


> @Cult03 please tell me you didn’t like that cinematic BS?


I like the idea of it. Lucha Underground did it really well, Undertaker and Styles was pretty good and Cena and Wyatt was fine. I enjoyed the nostalgia aspect but hope they don't go in that direction too often. I think it works with the lack of crowds and looks good on television at the moment.


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## Cult03 (Oct 31, 2016)

spiderguy252000 said:


> I feel like I’m missing something... any time Marko was on Dynamite he would consistently getting pops and his name chanted. I feel like live crowds (Which are mostly hardcore AEW fans) eat his shtick up 🤷🏽‍♂️


AEW fans will literally eat any shtick up at the moment. They're cheering for the wrong reasons.


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## go stros (Feb 16, 2020)

I think you all are missing the big picture. Marko has you all fooled. He is actually man behind the curtain, the puppet master, The Big Kahuna of the Dark Order. Brody Lee is just his top minion. Like Kevin. He's just the face and the voice. Sure Lee drag dolled, decimated and destroyed Stunt. But its all part of Marko's master plan to gain your sympathy and support. And once he has it the world will be the same. A dark plague and a reign of terror like never before will be unleashed. Marko is the evil genius and he has you all fooled.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

I've watched wrestling for 30 years. Was more into WCW than WWF, taped traded ECW and Memphis and Onita stuff. Maybe I'm missing something but I'm really not seeing the problem with Stunt or Dark Order, apart from the latter being corny as hell. Cassidy's pockets hulking up thing is weird and the most counterproductive sequence they do. But at the same time I do find the gimmick in general very amusing.


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## The Wood (Nov 7, 2003)

Sorry I'm late to the party. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Let's get something straight here.
> 
> YOU'RE the one with the problem okay? YOU'RE the one that's bitching about one guy that has no effect on anything YOU'RE the one that's mad so don't put your shit on me and act like I'm the problem. You're tired of the argument? YOU move the fuck on, take some responsibility and turn AEW off when Marko comes on if it bothers you that much. Also, It's so funny how you wanna sit here and generalize AEW fans like they're all the same. We're not. Like I've said a thousand times in this thread THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT AEW EITHER AND I SAY AS SUCH but I don't bitch and moan about it all day like y'all do.
> 
> ...


Hang on, what kind of logic is this? People can't discuss wrestling on a wrestling forum, they've got to go and take it up with Cody? The fuck? It sounds like you have a bias where if you complain about something, it is fine, but if someone else does it, then it's wrong. Sounds hypocritical to me. 



The Raw Smackdown said:


> But but but...it drew money! Millions of people were watching so it was good and everything clicked! Austin and Rock! Austin and Rock!
> 
> But Seriously when I go back and watch the AE it's honestly horrible and does not hold up at all. It was product of it's time and it really shows in all it's trashy, shitty glory. But people wanna come at me with what I like? Especially when they don't even know what the hell I like lmao.
> 
> Shit. I'll go out on a limb and say The AE is why people view wrestling the way they do. But Marko Stunt is this huge problem? Lol okay.


Actually, I am one of the biggest critics of Vince Russo and how overblown everything outside the main event in the Attitude era was. But if you're seriously comparing how Mae Young getting powerbombed is similar to Marko Stunt? Get the fuck out with that noise. I trust reasonable people passing through to smell what is up with that.

Mae Young was at least a lady wrestler in her youth. Plus, her taking those bumps was CRAZY. But do you honestly hear people defending her giving birth to a hand, for example? No. That's made-up. You need to make stuff up to have anything on hand. Pun intended.

Yes, Marko Stunt is an absolute problem. 



spiderguy252000 said:


> I feel like I’m missing something... any time Marko was on Dynamite he would consistently getting pops and his name chanted. I feel like live crowds (Which are mostly hardcore AEW fans) eat his shtick up 🤷🏽‍♂️


AEW crowds would cheer if you shat in the ring and called it "WWE creative." They are not the smartest of audiences.


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## Carter84 (Feb 4, 2018)

MontyCora said:


> He's been openly criticized by JR gently a few times. Not open disses but "If he works on his physique he'll be a fantastic asset" which is a gentle sort of neg. Maybe right this moment that's on his mind and he's moments away from making some big changes. You don't know.
> 
> I was heavy at one point in my life, and I had a personal epiphany that was entirely and completely based on me and me alone, and I guarantee if you were a personal friend of mine you'd be saying the same shit. "Based on observable evidence MontyCora is DEFINATELY not about to become a gym rat and get super ripped. He's financially secure. He has no "reason" to do it, and thus why would it happen??
> 
> You can't speak for others peoples perspectives. Maybe you're right and he's like "ehhh fuck that!" but maybe you're wrong. You DON'T know what you don't know. Humble yourself a bit.



Respect dude I was 258lbs 3 yr ago now i way 175lbs. Had to lose to live or my doc said in.the nicest way he could Carter cut the drink. Drugs and excess food out. Now I've got a tat of moderation on my tummy 
Glad your healthy now. It's easy to gain weight but not easy to man, If u ever fancy a chat here's my friend request


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