# Shawn Spears Is The Next Big Heel Post- MJF



## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

That interview is evident enough, but Spears entire persona and mannerisms since turning heel has been astounding. He's taking in all the attention he's gotten for the chairshot and has turned it into genuine *HEEL HEAT*. I personally think he should slowly drop the 10 shit because it feels like he's leeching off of his WWE gimmick, but at the same it sort of fits the heel turn. Also digging the "Chairman" shit .


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

I think he has a ceiling from his long WWE run funk on him. You can't have a top heel of your company where the competition has hours of footage of him jobbing in 3 minute matches to other wwe undercard guys.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I saw the JR interview and he was very well spoken and told a nice story over an obvious betrayal (obvious in the sense we could see it coming the moment Cody said "Good Hand").

It's a good start. One thing I still need to see is him brining good aggression in the ring. We've only see on sample from FFTF and while he did have good heel tactics, when he faces Cody I need to see a certain level of aggression to really drive home how much he hates what Cody said about him.


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## zrc (Nov 14, 2011)

He's been at this for 18 years, he better hope it works this time.


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think he has a ceiling from his long WWE run funk on him. You can't have a top heel of your company where the competition has hours of footage of him jobbing in 3 minute matches to other wwe undercard guys.


That's 100% false, plenty of guys have reinvented themselves as top guys after coming off of jobber runs from WWE and other companies. Juice Robinson was jobbing in NXT and he's now thriving in NJPW just to name a single example.


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## A-C-P (Jan 5, 2010)

The Chairman :mark:

Oxman not here anymore to see his guy making it to the top :mj2


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Vic said:


> That's 100% false, plenty of guys have reinvented themselves as top guys after coming off of jobber runs from WWE and other companies. Juice Robinson was jobbing in NXT and he's now thriving in NJPW just to name a single example.


Juice Robinson was a young guy, and had to go over to Japan and start at the bottom. 

Shawn Spears is is playing off his WWE history, so he's playing the same guy. In the kayfabe world that guy was a curtain jerking jobber. 

If he wanted a fresh start he could have came in as a new character, under a new name, with a new kayfabe history. That would be like Mean Mark Callous or Vinnie Vegas jumping from WCW.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Like I posted in All Out thread I was dissapointed with this interview, I feel that, after all the build up they did about JR interviewing him this was going to be like one of old JR sit down interviews, but this was rather short and uneventful until the reveal at the end, I feel that, while Spears was very well spoken, he didn't came across as a big superstar and that he lacked intensity. Also he wasn't very impressive in the 6 man tag at FFTF, so this "he is gonna be the next great heel"... I just don't see it. They put Tully with him, so it is obvious that they have big plans for him, but I don't know, he hasn't impressed me so far.


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## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think he has a ceiling from his long WWE run funk on him. You can't have a top heel of your company where the competition has hours of footage of him jobbing in 3 minute matches to other wwe undercard guys.


I mean, if he genuinely does a good job as a heel, no one's going to care about his past. The guy was such a nobody on the WWE main roster I'd be surprised if casuals even remember what he did as Tye Dillinger.

Its the same thing I say to people who claim people can't buy Jinder or Mcintyre because of their past when these people look and acted like nothing compared to their 3mb past. If you're good enough at your current job, no one's gonna care what you did a few years ago.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Oh Spears is becoming better. Better on mic, and his heelish mannerisms are on point. So far very impressed!


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## CMPunkRock316 (Jan 17, 2016)

Just because WWE mishandled him doesn't mean he can't be a valuable performer elsewhere. He was over in both NXT and early on in his Main Roster run and I blame that on WWE for fumbling him. Personally I am rooting for him to do well.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

No he's not, once the shine of "they're pushing a guy WWE never used" wears off he'll fall back to being the serviceable low card wrestler he is.


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## utvolzac (Jul 25, 2013)

Stardust vs Tye Dillinger in the main event? That’ll put asses in the seats.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

utvolzac said:


> Stardust vs Tye Dillinger in the main event? That’ll put asses in the seats.


It's not a main event. You can sit down now.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

utvolzac said:


> Stardust vs Tye Dillinger in the main event? That’ll put asses in the seats.


They won’t be in the main event - but I’m going to screenshot this post anyway

Something tells me it isn’t going to age well


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## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

That was a boring interview. I felt nothing while watching it. Spears has no charisma or personality in front of a camera. Cody can keep trying to make his buddy a star all he wants, it's never gonna work.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> That was a boring interview. I felt nothing while watching it. Spears has no charisma or personality in front of a camera. Cody can keep trying to make his buddy a star all he wants, it's never gonna work.


On the contrary what I sense from Spears is kind of one of those serial killer type of vibes.... those guys that are kind of quiet but shady... it's not supposed to be a guy who's loud or who's trying to be too charismatic he's basically a sneaky low-key old school heel trying to generate heat for backstabbing his long time pal and the brilliance of Tully at the end shunning an F-U to the Rhodes Dynasty was icing on the cake.


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## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

I don't see it.


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## The Sheik (Jul 10, 2017)

Never been a fan of this guy, but we'll see what happens.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Juice Robinson was a young guy, and had to go over to Japan and start at the bottom.
> 
> Shawn Spears is is playing off his WWE history, so he's playing the same guy. In the kayfabe world that guy was a curtain jerking jobber.
> 
> If he wanted a fresh start he could have came in as a new character, under a new name, with a new kayfabe history. That would be like Mean Mark Callous or Vinnie Vegas jumping from WCW.


In the social media/"reality" era, that type of mentality just doesn't match with today's wrestling. 

So what if he was in the WWE doing TV squash matches? The fans are smarter today than before to know that they can see potential in some of these wrestlers but the place they work for (WWE being the major example) stifles that chance to see if the talent can sink or swim on their own merits. The company creates an environment where you're undermined unless you're the 10% of talent they give an iota of a fuck about.

I agree that at some point, he needs to phase out the "Perfect 10" stench but Spears so far, IMO, has done a very good job creating a persona that allows him to determine his own fate in a company that gives him the opportunity to do so.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Chan Hung said:


> On the contrary what I sense from Spears is * kind of one of those serial killer type of vibes*.... those guys that are kind of quiet but shady... it's not supposed to be a guy who's loud or who's trying to be too charismatic he's basically a sneaky low-key old school heel trying to generate heat for backstabbing his long time pal and the brilliance of Tully at the end shunning an F-U to the Rhodes Dynasty was icing on the cake.


I know opinions are like assholes, but this seems like a big old stretch. Especially when you go on to say he's a sneaky low-key heel. Like which is it? It's not like hes oozing demented methodical coldness like a Jake or Raven, he's not even ultraviolent like heel Pentagon. He was just blandly explaining why his feelings were hurt


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Shawn is and always has been my guy and he's my main reason for watching AEW. I'm glad to see him getting some shine and I hope it sticks this time.


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## 260825 (Sep 7, 2013)

*Spears has impressed me. I'm not attached to his past.

I'm rewatching it, I'm really feeling it.*


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## Raye (Jul 23, 2018)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think he has a ceiling from his long WWE run funk on him. You can't have a top heel of your company where the competition has hours of footage of him jobbing in 3 minute matches to other wwe undercard guys.


EC3 would say otherwise.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Raye said:


> DetroitRiverPhx said:
> 
> 
> > I think he has a ceiling from his long WWE run funk on him. You can't have a top heel of your company where the competition has hours of footage of him jobbing in 3 minute matches to other wwe undercard guys.
> ...


Poor EC3 he would be great in AEW


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## Raye (Jul 23, 2018)

Chan Hung said:


> Poor EC3 he would be great in AEW


He should be great in WWE too :batista3

The amount of misused talent in the WWE at the moment has to be at an all time high.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

I swear the Ascension could go to AEW and people would spin it into them being a GOAT tag team.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

bradatar said:


> I swear the Ascension could go to AEW and people would spin it into them being a GOAT tag team.


I'm sure the majority said Bo Dallas and No Way Jose would be GOATs in AEW. Nice concern trolling.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

WINNING said:


> I'm sure the majority said Bo Dallas and No Way Jose would be GOATs in AEW. Nice concern trolling.




Bo Dallas has had a better young career then your apparent “top heel” (LOLOLOL) Tye fucking Dillinger. It’s almost too obvious who’s going to respond to my posts anymore. So edgy.











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## jeffatron (Nov 21, 2016)

I dunno about top heel AFTER MJF, the guy is 38-39? They gonna give him a short heel run sure, and it'll be a few good decent feuds. I see him putting both cody and mjf over however.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

bradatar said:


> I swear the Ascension could go to AEW and people would spin it into them being a GOAT tag team.


People are overreacting to the fact that Spears comes off better in AEW than he did in WWE because his presentation is better, but his level of talent hasn't changed. He's still average at best. I'm a little baffled why people are drooling over him now.


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## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

AEWMoxley said:


> People are overreacting to the fact that Spears comes off better in AEW than he did in WWE because his presentation is better, but his level of talent hasn't changed. He's still average at best. *I'm a little baffled why people are drooling over him now*.


Because some people on here want to pretend AEW can do wrong and act like every single person on the roster is the second coming.

Like last month they were drooling over that geek Joey Janela and then he got punked out by Enzo lol.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> Because some people on here want to pretend AEW can do wrong and act like every single person on the roster is the second coming.
> 
> Like last month they were drooling over that geek Joey Janela and then he got punked out by Enzo lol.


That very well may be the case. I've seen people here clamoring for PAC to join the main event scene. *PAC*, who's arguably even worse than Spears.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

AEWMoxley said:


> That very well may be the case. I've seen people here clamoring for PAC to join the main event scene. *PAC*, who's arguably even worse than Spears.




Atleast he looks like a super mutant troll 


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

I've always been a big fan of the guy and I'm really glad someone is doing right by him. He really is a lot better than people give him credit for. I think people need to calm down about who's working what spot. It's a new company and they need to start somewhere. Once time goes by and even bigger fish start jumping into AEW, some of these guys will get weeded out if they're not up to par. If they are then that's awesome and I think right now AEW needs to take chances. Their OWN chances.

Where a lot of companies went wrong in the past is that they always pushed former WWE guys and didn't take chances on guys not christened by WWE as "deserving of a top spot". That automatically makes a company look inferior because it's like they need a WWE cosign on a dude like daddy's permission. AEW's gotta put on the big boy pants and make their own moves. And fans need to chill and not speak until the storyline is over. That's just my view.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

bradatar said:


> I swear the Ascension could go to AEW and people would spin it into them being a GOAT tag team.


Not sure. I mean lots here love Revival and say they are a must see for AEW, I'm in the minority and they bore me to death. Bland look and bland in ring, but again just me.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Chan Hung said:


> Not sure. I mean lots here love Revival and say they are a must see for AEW, I'm in the minority and they bore me to death. Bland look and bland in ring, but again just me.




Ascension was a bad example, they’re too big. Theyd be the biggest guys on the roster.

Revival suck. 


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

MarkyWhipwreck said:


> I don't see it.


"He is better than fat fuck Adam Cole in every way" :grin2:

AEW fans


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Chan Hung said:


> Not sure. I mean lots here love Revival and say they are a must see for AEW, I'm in the minority and they bore me to death. Bland look and bland in ring, but again just me.


There are only like 3 guys in WWE who I'd want to see in AEW - Bray Wyatt, Kevin Owens, and Samoa Joe. The rest, at least based on when I still watched the product several years ago, I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole.


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> No he's not, once the shine of "they're pushing a guy WWE never used" wears off he'll fall back to being the serviceable low card wrestler he is.


Right, because that worked out just as well for guys like Christian, Bully, fucking Cody for God's sake. Inb4 the obligatory "well they had talent herp derp" comment.



utvolzac said:


> Stardust vs Tye Dillinger in the main event? That’ll put asses in the seats.


As many others pointed out not needing to go any further it's not the main event, so take the L.



nWo4Lyfe420 said:


> That was a boring interview. I felt nothing while watching it. Spears has no charisma or personality in front of a camera. Cody can keep trying to make his buddy a star all he wants, it's never gonna work.


Except it already has worked he's the most over heel they have next to MJF.



bradatar said:


> I swear the Ascension could go to AEW and people would spin it into them being a GOAT tag team.


Holy shit what an overreaction.



bradatar said:


> Bo Dallas has had a better young career then your apparent “top heel” (LOLOLOL) Tye fucking Dillinger. It’s almost too obvious who’s going to respond to my posts anymore. So edgy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In what way? Bo won the nothing NXT title before it became worth watching and a tag title run with McGuliculty, Spears was consistently over and consistently received solo title shots. 



jeffatron said:


> I dunno about top heel AFTER MJF, the guy is 38-39? They gonna give him a short heel run sure, and it'll be a few good decent feuds. I see him putting both cody and mjf over however.


I think Spears may end up being one of those guys who has a few more years in him than he should just going by the fact that he's rarely injured and he still has a youthful look.



AEWMoxley said:


> People are overreacting to the fact that Spears comes off better in AEW than he did in WWE because his presentation is better, but his level of talent hasn't changed. He's still average at best. I'm a little baffled why people are drooling over him now.


Because his character work has been fairly good?



AEWMoxley said:


> That very well may be the case. I've seen people here clamoring for PAC to join the main event scene. *PAC*, *who's arguably even worse than Spears.*


Well you just lost credibility.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Vic said:


> Well you just lost credibility.


PAC is garbage. One of the most boring motherfuckers I've ever heard on the mic. Even more so than Spears, who is pretty bad himself.

I'm sorry for your poor talent evaluation skills.


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

Mordecay said:


> "He is better than fat fuck Adam Cole in every way" :grin2:
> 
> AEW fans


You couldn't have possibly used a worse example for that, but of course you used someone you mark for as an example. I like how people are acting like Spears is being overrated but the only people making "better than arguments" are the clowns arguing against him :mj4.



AEWMoxley said:


> PAC is garbage. One of the most boring motherfuckers I've ever heard on the mic. Even more so than Spears, who is pretty bad himself.
> 
> I'm sorry for your poor talent evaluation skills.


You're getting angry over a personal opinion, sit down junior.


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

Revival are amazing. You have to be a fan of that southern rasslin' style to appreciate them. And that style isn't for everyone. Especially if you didn't come up on it. But they're the best team going right now besides Lucha Bros.

I honestly think Ascension would be great for AEW. They were fantastic in NXT before Vince buried the living shit out of them. Seriously go back in the network and watch them. It's night and day.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Vic said:


> Except it already has worked he's the most over heel they have next to MJF.
> .


I guess someone forgot that Jericho exists, he even got the "Thank You Chris" chants at FFTF turn into "Thank you Hangman". Also, the Librarian got more heat than Spears, but sure, Spears is their second most over heel :eyeroll


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

Mordecay said:


> I guess someone forgot that Jericho exists, he even got the "Thank You Chris" chants at FFTF turn into "Thank you Hangman". Also, the Librarian got more heat than Spears, but sure, Spears is their second most over heel :eyeroll


Thanks for proving my point son. Jericho shouldn’t want those chants and he clearly doesn’t he wants to be booed as a heel should be. Any heel looking for those type of reactions is a jackass heel not good at their job. That’s how this works. 

Edit: I misread the middle bit but you get my point.

Edit 2: Librarians are in no way more over than Shawn at the moment:mj4


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

Vic said:


> You're getting angry over a personal opinion, sit down junior.


There's nothing in that post that indicates anger, squirt.

However, going through literally every post in this thread that disagrees with your view, and responding to all of them with an angrily clenched sphincter, is a sign that you are triggered by opposing views.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Vic said:


> Right, because that worked out just as well for guys like Christian, Bully, fucking Cody for God's sake. Inb4 the obligatory "well they had talent herp derp" comment.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Bo is a tag team champ too.


I can’t answer anymore because apparently I’m trolling. 


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

AEWMoxley said:


> There's nothing in that post that indicates anger, squirt.
> 
> However, going through literally every post in this thread that disagrees with your view, and responding to all of them with an angrily clenched sphincter, is a sign that you are triggered by opposing views.


Yes because calling someone “squirt” like you’re on a playground is completely untriggered I also like how you think responding to multiple post with counterpoints indicates anger. Do you not understand the quote button and its purpose?


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

Mordecay said:


> I guess someone forgot that Jericho exists, he even got the "Thank You Chris" chants at FFTF turn into "Thank you Hangman". Also, the Librarian got more heat than Spears, but sure, Spears is their second most over heel :eyeroll


I think the biggest thing working against Spears right now is feuding with Cody. Cody, a guy who has been a heel more than a face, and Spears a face more than a heel. So it's difficult to feel bad for Cody getting layed out when he's usually a bad guy by a dude who's usually a good guy. Not to mention Cody's wife is playing the biggest female heel in the company right now. I think Spears would've benefitted from more time on the mic as a heel before attacking Cody. But I guess they were going for shock factor.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Darkest Lariat said:


> I think the biggest thing working against Spears right now is feuding with Cody. Cody, a guy who has been a heel more than a face, and Spears a face more than a heel. So it's difficult to feel bad for Cody getting layed out when he's usually a bad guy by a dude who's usually a good guy. Not to mention Cody's wife is playing the biggest female heel in the company right now. I think Spears would've benefitted from more time on the mic as a heel before attacking Cody. But I guess they were going for shock factor.


I don't think that has anything to do tbh. Cody may have worked as a heel a lot and he is better as a heel, but for AEW fans he is not a heel, so getting heat from attacking him wouldn't be that hard, at least from that fanbase, since they like Cody. The biggest thing working against Spears is that he is simply not all that charismatic, and I guess AEW realizes that and that's why they put a manager on him to get heat that he by himself may not be able to produce.


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## Hangman (Feb 3, 2017)

Threads like this is why we can't have nice things.


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## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

Mordecay said:


> get heat that he by himself may not be able to produce.


If you haven't I highly recommend you watch the six-man tag at Fight for the Fallen, Spears got heat from the second he made his entrance and was announced as "The Chairman" to when he got the pin on Allin.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Vic said:


> If you haven't I highly recommend you watch the six-man tag at Fight for the Fallen, Spears got heat from the second he made his entrance and was announced as "The Chairman" to when he got the pin on Allin.


I watched the 6 man tag, he was the least impressive wrestler out of the 6 and he wasn't nowhere near as hated as I expected him to be after the chairshot. Like I said, even the librarians got more heat :lol


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## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

Mordecay said:


> I don't think that has anything to do tbh. Cody may have worked as a heel a lot and he is better as a heel, but for AEW fans he is not a heel, so getting heat from attacking him wouldn't be that hard, at least from that fanbase, since they like Cody. The biggest thing working against Spears is that he is simply not all that charismatic, and I guess AEW realizes that and that's why they put a manager on him to get heat that he by himself may not be able to produce.


I don't know man. That's like watching the first five minutes of a tv show and saying it sucks. You have to see how it plays out to make an objective assessment. The guy JUST got there.


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Darkest Lariat said:


> I don't know man. That's like watching the first five minutes of a tv show and saying it sucks. You have to see how it plays out to make an objective assessment. The guy JUST got there.


That's not really an excuse, it only took me 5 minutes of Darby, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF (without even seeing anything of their previous work) to say that those guys had "it". I've seen Spears for years and while he comes across way better in AEW that he has in WWE/NXT, I still haven't seen that "it" that those other guys have. Even Dustin, in that one promo he did for his match with Cody he sold me on the match, so being a former WWE job guy has nothing to do with it.


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## Buffy The Vampire Slayer (May 31, 2011)

Welp this thread had some values but to straight up lie and say that Spears is not next big heel is a joke. He still gets heat from that one chair shot to Cody's skull and some weak hearted people wanted him to lose his job over it. Yeah, clearly he is not getting heat when he did something that Cody couldn't do and that is beat Darby. Yup keep on chucking up lies. :mj4


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

Yall said we'd never get a Spears fan thread, but here we are. He's getting a better and better character and soon enough, a shit ton of you will have to eat your words and i'm here for it.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Mordecay said:


> That's not really an excuse, it only took me 5 minutes of Darby, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF (without even seeing anything of their previous work) to say that those guys had "it". I've seen Spears for years and while he comes across way better in AEW that he has in WWE/NXT, I still haven't seen that "it" that those other guys have. Even Dustin, in that one promo he did for his match with Cody he sold me on the match, so being a former WWE job guy has nothing to do with it.


Look around you and notice how you’re slowly sliding into the minority here with your Spears opinion

The guy has it, and you’re choosing not to see it

That’s you’re prerogative - hopefully you don’t get to Pyro levels with it though


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## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Look around you and notice how you’re slowly sliding into the minority here with your Spears opinion
> 
> The guy has it, and you’re choosing not to see it
> 
> That’s you’re prerogative - hopefully you don’t get to Pyro levels with it though


I am also was the one of the few calling Becky Lynch cringe and overrated for years and here we are, with half the forum doing that :shrug. Like I said, I will give him a chance, but so far he hasn't impressed me. If people enjoy his work then good for them, that doesn't mean that I have to :shrug


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## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

Buffy The Vampire Slayer said:


> Welp this thread had some values but to straight up lie and say that Spears is not next big heel is a joke. He still gets heat from that one chair shot to Cody's skull and *some weak hearted people wanted him to lose his job over it*. Yeah, clearly he is not getting heat when he did something that Cody couldn't do and that is beat Darby. Yup keep on chucking up lies. :mj4


If he wasn't Cody's friend he wouldn't have a job in AEW to begin with. He's trash. It makes the whole company look bush league by pushing a literal WWE reject who has the charisma of a tree stump as one of its top stars.


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## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

I don't think bad of the dissenting opinions to @Vic ; 's point. I feel bad for him having to deal with about 5-6 posters making up 'strawmen' to try argue against his point. The healthy attitude here is to wait and see. If we look at his work AEW only, he's played the cards he's been dealt very, very well. When you look at the cards he was dealt in the WWE, he got the maximum out of that. Sure, he does lack a certain x-factor but all impressions within the AEW 'Universe', he's delivering great results from his material and at the end of the day, what more can people demand? He can't change his genetics.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Vic said:


> Right, because that worked out just as well for guys like Christian, Bully, fucking Cody for God's sake. Inb4 the obligatory "well they had talent herp derp" comment.


The difference between Spears and them is they weren't getting their first big shot to show "hey I'm a somebody" at 38. Christian before he left for TNA proved from the Brood up until his single heel run with Tomko what he had, all the while growing from a tag guy to true midcard guy. Bully spent 2 decades showing what he had with D-Von as ½ of one of the greatest tag teams of all time. Cody got over wacky gimmick after wacky gimmick in the WWE.

Meanwhile we have Shawn Spears who's 38 and to date his biggest accomplishment is getting 10 over and getting "hey you've been in developmental for ever" sympathy. You saying he's going to be the next big heel sounds just as wild as if somebody said Al Snow the head guy was going to be the next big heel. 

I can totally buy he'll be a great addition near where folk like Sonny Kiss will be. But I'm not buying for a second this time next year folk will be talking about how much Spears killed it as a midcard/upper midcard guy in AEWs first year.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Mordecay said:


> I am also was the one of the few calling Becky Lynch cringe and overrated for years and here we are, with half the forum doing that :shrug. Like I said, I will give him a chance, but so far he hasn't impressed me. If people enjoy his work then good for them, that doesn't mean that I have to :shrug


Of course you don’t have to - everybody does not like everything

But we’ve noted you don’t rate him - hope he does something to turn that around. If he doesn’t, I hope you can spare us the ‘years of telling people’ like you said you did with Becky


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

Mordecay said:


> I am also was the one of the few calling Becky Lynch cringe and overrated for years and here we are, with half the forum doing that :shrug. Like I said, I will give him a chance, but so far he hasn't impressed me. If people enjoy his work then good for them, that doesn't mean that I have to :shrug


I got 2 suspensions at the start of the year for talking shit about Becky and Seth. Now most of the forum is starting to realize I was right about them lol. Still waiting on those apologies from everyone who attacked me for it.

Same thing will happen with Spears and Page. AEW marks in the honeymoon phase are jerking them. They keep pushing these charisma vacuums in spots they don't belong in and people will eventually realize they suck.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Beatles123 said:


> Yall said we'd never get a Spears fan thread, but here we are. He's getting a better and better character and soon enough, a shit ton of you will have to eat your words and i'm here for it.


What's the better and better character? That's the thing with Spears/Dillinger folk say a lot about him. But rarely point out what's supposed to be great about him. $I hit Cody with a chair because he called me a good hand" isn't something that screams "great character". It's a decent enough reason for a feud, but it's hardly a character as of now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> What's the better and better character? That's the thing with Spears/Dillinger folk say a lot about him. But rarely point out what's supposed to be great about him. $I hit Cody with a chair because he called me a good hand" isn't something that screams "great character". It's a decent enough reason for a feud, but it's hardly a character as of now.


Embittered jilted friend? Guy who was never rated and trusted his mate to put him in a better spot, only for a perceived betrayal?

So jilted now, that he got a guy who terrorised Cody’s dad for years as his manager?

Alluding that he has a trusted inner circle?

Coming across as cold, calculating and measured?

That’s a character - maybe a bond villain character, but a character nonetheless - a lot better than ‘10, 10, 10’ no?

Ps> please note he did not do ‘10’ at FFTF or even alluded to it in his interview


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Embittered jilted friend? Guy who was never rated and trusted his mate to put him in a better spot, only for a perceived betrayal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But thats not a character, its a reason for him to feud with Cody. But none of that can logically carry over into another feud. He can't feud with say Moxley because "that dick Cody betrayed me when he publicly called me a good hand". 

I don't get cold, calculating, and measured. I get that when describing a Jake or Raven, even Orton or HHH at their most dastardly, but not with Spears here. I'll giving cunning for Tully though, that was a nice add for the feud. But his motivations as of now mostly feel more akin to a tag team break up due to jealousy, than it does that Spears is some evil mastermind.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> But thats not a character, its a reason for him to feud with Cody. But none of that can logically carry over into another feud. He can't feud with say Moxley because "that dick Cody betrayed me when he publicly called me a good hand".
> 
> I don't get cold, calculating, and measured. I get that when describing a Jake or Raven, even Orton or HHH at their most dastardly, but not with Spears here. I'll giving cunning for Tully though, that was a nice add for the feud. But his motivations as of now mostly feel more akin to a tag team break up due to jealousy, than it does that Spears is some evil mastermind.


Mate... its his first feud - layers will be added so that he can feud with other people

This is all just foundation work. Character building 101 - But i’m not here to convince you - the story will play out regardless

Ps> if getting Tully (of all people) as his manager does not come across to you as cold and calculating - as well as his demeanour during the interview, then I guess we just have a fundamental difference of view on the matter - no harm, no foul


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

We had this conversation in 2016 when Cody left WWE.

Also, stop replying to gimmick posters.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

V-Trigger said:


> We had this conversation in 2016 when Cody left WWE.
> 
> Also, stop replying to gimmick posters.


Fffffuck, that is a fair point.

I hated Cody in WWE and now he is one of my favs


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Cody was what, 30-31 when he left WWE? And he was a former IC champion, former tag titles champ and had the Rhodes last name... let's just say that the cases are very different.


----------



## V-Trigger (Jul 6, 2016)

Mordecay said:


> Cody was what, 30-31 when he left WWE? And he was a former IC champion, former tag titles champ and had the Rhodes last name... let's just say that the cases are very different.


Nobody cared. He was buried 6ft under when he left. Guess what, he made it work with grind and time. Let it play out.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Ah yes. Another thread where someone gets a little too far ahead of themselves. I think the segment was well done. It was logical, nothing seemed forced or unnatural and the inclusion of Tully adds far more intrigue than I had in the feud before had. But next big heel? Let's wait and see how the dominoes fall before making vast assumptions. 

And it's nice to see yet another thread get derailed by gimmick posters (and naive people that just need to bite) and devolve into an endless spats about things that has been discussed ad nauseam.


----------



## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Beatles123 said:


> You think you did something? :lol




Sorry I can’t take bait right now since the AEW crowd complains to mods about me too much. Enjoy your day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I enjoy the geeks being able to lay bait down all over the place and when I respond responsibly it is trolling. Comical honestly. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

bradatar said:


> I enjoy the geeks being able to lay bait down all over the place and when I respond responsibly it is trolling. Comical honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Cory Matthews had more charisma than Shawn Spears.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mate... its his first feud - layers will be added so that he can feud with other people
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MJF doesn't have a feud and we all get what his character is :draper2

As far as cold and calculating to get Tully nah. I think it's smart sort of like Corbin getting Lacey to ref at Stomping Grounds was smart, but not enough work to call calculating and cold. 

But agree to disagree. 



V-Trigger said:


> We had this conversation in 2016 when Cody left WWE.
> 
> Also, stop replying to gimmick posters.


Except the gap between what Cody was and what Spears was is wild apart. You're comparing what was said about a midcard and tag champ who had a couple of big feuds, to a guy who has done essentially nothing. Cody you could point to several characters, feuds, and promos he had that were well done. Faith in Spears basically relies on "well he's not in WWE so he's going to be big".


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

V-Trigger said:


> Nobody cared. He was buried 6ft under when he left. Guess what, he made it work with grind and time. Let it play out.


Given the crazy amount of indie dates Cody had when he left I wouldn't said that "nobody cared" :shrug

Also, Cody had time, he was in his early 30's, he worked the indies which earned him some respect for being a 100% WWE guy willing to work the indies (something that wasn't very common at the time) and build his brand from that point on, Spears doesn't have that luxury.


----------



## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

Cody has mic skills and charisma. He proved that as far back as the Dashing gimmick. Spears is 38 and has yet to show any semblance of a personality. I don't understand the comparison at all.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I like Spears a lot. I think he's been extremely underrated. That said, Jericho is the top heel and Spears ultimately there to put over guys like Darby Allin


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Mordecay said:


> Cody was what, 30-31 when he left WWE? And he was a former IC champion, former tag titles champ and had the Rhodes last name... let's just say that the cases are very different.


Exactly why folk are acting like him and Spears are the same is insane. Sure Cody left WWE on a sour note and bad patch. But you still had a lot of other good moments to where you could make an argument why he could make it. Even if I'm personally surprised he's done this great for himself.

But Spears has no history that anybody can point to that's suggest he has a lot to offer.


----------



## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

bradatar said:


> I enjoy the geeks being able to lay bait down all over the place and when I respond responsibly it is trolling. Comical honestly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





bradatar said:


> Sorry I can’t take bait right now since the AEW crowd complains to mods about me too much. Enjoy your day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No bate here, friend. Just asking. Thanks for the out of rants flaming though. Didnt think it was like that. @Chrome ;


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> I think it's smart sort of like _*Corbin*_ getting *Lacey to ref at Stomping Grounds* was smart, but not enough work to call calculating and cold.


Sorry sir... i have no idea what those words mean


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sorry sir... i have no idea what those words mean


:lmao fair enough. Um how about 

I thought Kurt Angle bringing back Marty Janetty and Scary Sherri in his HBK feud was smart, but not cold and calculating. 

Do those words mean anything to you sir?!?!


----------



## Chrome (Jan 11, 2012)

Beatles123 said:


> No bate here, friend. Just asking. Thanks for the out of rants flaming though. Didnt think it was like that. @Chrome ;


I think everyone just needs to calm down a little. :justsayin

Nobody needs to be getting banned over a Shawn Spears argument.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

RapShepard said:


> :lmao fair enough. Um how about
> 
> I thought Kurt Angle bringing back Marty Janetty and Scary Sherri in his HBK feud was smart, but not cold and calculating.
> 
> Do those words mean anything to you sir?!?!


Spears = Angle confirmed by @RapShepard

GOAT spears goating!


----------



## DOPA (Jul 13, 2012)

The segment was intriguing and very well done. Nothing felt forced, the motivations were natural and clear. Adding Tully to the mix gives it an extra something too honestly.

But next top heel? Yeah that's a bit of an exaggeration :lol but I will admit I'm more interested in the match with Cody now than before I watched the JR interview so it served it's purpose.


----------



## taker1986 (Sep 14, 2016)

I just saw his JR interview. The guy is a star and was underutilised on WWE. Their loss, but I think he'll be a big star in AEW.


----------



## Darkest Lariat (Jun 12, 2013)

Mordecay said:


> That's not really an excuse, it only took me 5 minutes of Darby, Jungle Boy, Luchasaurus, MJF (without even seeing anything of their previous work) to say that those guys had "it". I've seen Spears for years and while he comes across way better in AEW that he has in WWE/NXT, I still haven't seen that "it" that those other guys have. Even Dustin, in that one promo he did for his match with Cody he sold me on the match, so being a former WWE job guy has nothing to do with it.


You said it yourself, you never saw any of their previous work. Therefore you didn't have any preconceived notions about them like you do based on WWE's presentation of Spears. 

At this point I just think you're hating on the dude cuz he's smashing you girl Peyton.


----------



## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

I go away for a few hours and this thread has almost 10 pages to it.

Because of course it does.

I'll say this much, All Out will be the biggest night of Spears's career. Won't say make or break, but it's close to that.


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Darkest Lariat said:


> You said it yourself, you never saw any of their previous work. Therefore you didn't have any preconceived notions about them like you do based on WWE's presentation of Spears.
> 
> At this point I just think you're hating on the dude cuz he's smashing you girl Peyton.


I said that I hate the guy several times because of that, I probably will for a while :lol. That doesn't mean that if I find him interesting or good I wouldn't say it. I don't like Becky but I praised her, I don't like Cody but I praised him, I don't like Jay White and I praised him. And the thing is that I don't even have shat on him or said that he sucks or that he doesn't have any qualities, in fact if you read the first post I posted here I said that he was very well spoken in his promo with JR, but for me, he hasn't showed any superstar quality or "it" so far, in WWE or AEW. But I guess some people got mad at the fact that I haven't jumped into his bandwagon inmediately without reading my posts.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T (Jun 17, 2014)

Anybody else think it's weird he's wearing his wedding ring before he's married?


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Agree no reason to use 10 a crappy gimmick


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Anybody else think it's weird he's wearing his wedding ring before he's married?


Not really, I've seen people doing that. And for all we know they may already be married, I mean he has called Peyton as "his wife" in a couple of interviews,


----------



## Bryan Jericho (Sep 8, 2014)

Nothing he did there made me change my mind about him. Still don't see him as a main heel, his ceiling is mid card at best like he was in WWE. I think SOME AEW fans want everything to be good so they overhype it and overrate it. Just my opinion though.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I think he has a ceiling from his long WWE run funk on him. You can't have a top heel of your company where the competition has hours of footage of him jobbing in 3 minute matches to other wwe undercard guys.


Didn't Kenny Omega do a job for a 9 year old girl or some shit?


----------



## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Anybody else think it's weird he's wearing his wedding ring before he's married?


Shawn just letting people know he has Peyton cuffed for extra HEAT. I’m joking obviously but could you imagine:lmao?


----------



## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1151934385819652098
Maybe they can write in that Tully has been in his ear since he arrived in AEW and helped get his mental game right and that is what was holding back Spears for his career etc.


----------



## FROSTY (Jan 22, 2015)

Like other things with this company Spears is going to always be one of those hills WWE apologists and Lacey Evans weirdo trolls are going to continue to climb.


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## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Anybody else think it's weird he's wearing his wedding ring before he's married?


It’s a claddagh ring. An Irish thing. I wore one before I was married and still do. It’s a symbolic shit I got mine from my great grandfather. In Ireland the way you could tell if someone was single was wearing these things. There’s a symbol on it that’s like a heart that faces in or out showing if you’re taken or not. It’s for friendship, love, and loyalty. The hands and heart and shit all mean something I just don’t remember right now. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

Chrome said:


> I think everyone just needs to calm down a little. :justsayin
> 
> Nobody needs to be getting banned over a Shawn Spears argument.


Yeah. This.


I watched the video; didn't see anything overly impressive at all. Though it wasn't bad either. Man...the production quality of this stuff though is the fucking shits, the Tully reveal could have been shot so much better. and im not about the narrative him being mad over being called "A Hand" That doesnt exactly create heat for me.

Of course those comments ^^^^ could be perceived as trolling by some because I don't think like most of the hive mind in this sub-forum. 


btw is it not flaming to call people "gimmick posters"? Especially when the above statements make sound and logical points? Just because some people don't agree with the hive mind logic of "everything in AEW is great," does that make them wrong? But we aren't supposed to respond back when we get flamed for creating discussion, unless we bow to our AEW Gods?

I think its bush league that some of you call on the mods every time something doesn't go your way also, or someone challenges something you enjoy or your reasoning. Stop going and crying to Chrome when hes got better shit to do than stand on your little hill.


Finally, a good portion of you guys have stockholm syndrome with everything AEW and WWE does. It's actually quite funny to be honest lol, especially when by February-March next year a lot of the points we have made become proof positive. Bottom line is AEW will be going heads up with NXT and at this rate I def know which one ill be watching with their respective trajectories.

If you replaced those three letters AEW with WWE with some of this shit I know for a bonified fact that some of you guys would be shitting all over it. A good portion of you would shit on this interview by SS if it took place in WWE. Take a step back and really think about that.


----------



## Donnie (Apr 8, 2014)

I don't know about "next big heel" :vic But I'm willing to watch it play out


----------



## bradatar (Mar 30, 2015)

kingnoth1n said:


> Yeah. This.
> 
> 
> I watched the video; didn't see anything overly impressive at all. Though it wasn't bad either. Man...the production quality of this stuff though is the fucking shits, the Tully reveal could have been shot so much better. and im not about the narrative him being mad over being called "A Hand" That doesnt exactly create heat for me.
> ...














It’s incredible. I literally spent money and went to an AEW show and have watched everything they’ve produced. But GODFORBID I criticize anything the company does. That instantly makes me a troll. Meanwhile, 90% of the people whining are the same dudes who shit all over WWE and say FAR worse then an Ascension joke. You got dudes laying bait all over the place and that’s not considered trolling. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## nWo4Lyfe420 (Apr 22, 2013)

kingnoth1n said:


> Yeah. This.
> 
> 
> I watched the video; didn't see anything overly impressive at all. Though it wasn't bad either. Man...the production quality of this stuff though is the fucking shits, the Tully reveal could have been shot so much better. and im not about the narrative him being mad over being called "A Hand" That doesnt exactly create heat for me.
> ...


Great post man. I've been an AEW supporter from the start. I don't hate the company at all. I want to see them succeed. I was one of the first MJF fans on WF when I discovered him before most people did and actually made many aware of how good he was before DON. Brad can attest to that.

But because I want to see him pushed above Shawn Spears that somehow makes me a 'gimmick poster?' What a fucking joke. There seems to be a weird mentality from some (not all) AEW fans that you have to praise everyone in the company and support every single thing they do. No criticism is allowed. Why even allow AEW threads at all if opinions can only be a one way street? That's how hiveminds are created.


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Mordecay said:


> "He is better than fat fuck Adam Cole in every way" :grin2:
> 
> AEW fans


Meanwhile, Adam Cole at 30 years old already has a better all-time career than an 18 year old vet :lol


----------



## Mordecay (Aug 15, 2014)

MarkyWhipwreck said:


> Meanwhile, Adam Cole at 30 years old already has a better all-time career than an 18 year old vet :lol


Only thing Spears beats Cole is that he has a hotter girlfriend (even though Britt is hot too) >

Good thing Cole is in WWE, if he was in AEW I can see Cody feeding him to help his friend get over :lol. And knowing Cole, he probably could. But I also want to believe that they would be smarter than that and put Cole in Hangman's place as one of the first two people wrestling for the AEW title


----------



## MarkyWhipwreck (Dec 20, 2014)

Mordecay said:


> Only thing Spears beats Cole is that he has a hotter girlfriend (even though Britt is hot too) >
> 
> Good thing Cole is in WWE, if he was in AEW I can see Cody feeding him to help his friend get over :lol. And knowing Cole, he probably could


I don't see Cody being THAT dumb :lol

I'm fine that Cole isn't in AEW though, he'd obviously be a main eventer along with Kenny (he probably would've been Kenny's first feud instead of Mox), Cody, Jericho & Moxley and I'd feel he'd get World Title runs. But he's doing so damn good in WWE right now, so I'm content.


----------



## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

I will say, though, that while I'm not a fan of Spears, these "Road to" videos continue to impress. The build and story telling they do for every match is phenomenal. 

Next week I'm expecting to see a Moxley/Omega segment, which should be great.


----------



## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

If you expected rage and yelling and 'intensity' then you totally missed the whole point of the sit down and it flew straight over your head. It was never intended to be that kind of interview. :no:



ripcitydisciple said:


> What a kick square in the balls of Vince and Creative if AEW were to make Shawn Spears into a major star. The whole presentation of the interview was perfect. Every word Spears said was measured and deliberate. Cerebral. Cold even. A guy who knew that he was the one who was in the right and that it was Cody who betrayed HIM, not the other way around. Then the cherry on top of the cake was Spears quoting that the biggest battles were not won with the biggest weapons or strongest warriors but with the greatest minds and Tully Blanchard then comes out, whispering in Shawn's ear and ends the interview with JR dumbfound.
> 
> It was brilliant.


Not everything needs to be Stone Cold, Rock, Triple H, Ric Flair, Drew McIntyre, Strowman shouting type promos/interviews to be great.


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

kingnoth1n said:


> Yeah. This.
> 
> 
> I watched the video; didn't see anything overly impressive at all. Though it wasn't bad either. Man...the production quality of this stuff though is the fucking shits, the Tully reveal could have been shot so much better. and im not about the narrative him being mad over being called "A Hand" That doesnt exactly create heat for me.
> ...


Two bits. One thing you haven't done well is explain why. Production quality is poor. Aight, now what? How do you think it should be better? Name improvements that don't come from several decades of industry-leader experience. As for Blanchard's reveal, better how? The cliché of Spears pointing to a door and out he comes? 

Second bit, can you actually prove the last two paragraphs? Name a similar type of promo for example. Michael Cole & JR have done sit-down interviews so there's opportunity to prove you are right if you want to dig that out. I see most sit-down interviews by WWE of that nature have been well received as it does a good job of explaining the story they try to tell & delve into the wrestler's mindset. Remember, if it's bon*A*fi*DE* fact, shouldn't be hard to find it . One rule, got to be a poster in this thread and a post they've made in the past.


----------



## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

Desecrated said:


> Two bits. One thing you haven't done well is explain why. Production quality is poor. Aight, now what? How do you think it should be better? Name improvements that don't come from several decades of industry-leader experience. As for Blanchard's reveal, better how? The cliché of Spears pointing to a door and out he comes?
> 
> Second bit, can you actually prove the last two paragraphs? Name a similar type of promo for example. Michael Cole & JR have done sit-down interviews so there's opportunity to prove you are right if you want to dig that out. I see most sit-down interviews by WWE of that nature have been well received as it does a good job of explaining the story they try to tell & delve into the wrestler's mindset. Remember, if it's bon*A*fi*DE* fact, shouldn't be hard to find it . One rule, got to be a poster in this thread and a post they've made in the past.



Its just not crisp, it feels it was all done in one take, when it didnt have to be. Especially Spears rushing his lines, this is obvious when Blanchard walked in that it was kind of a hodgepodge.

Id direct you for the 2nd piece to any of the live threads for the 2nd piece, next live thread for WWE jump in there, and youll see the same people shitting on any and everything, regardless if its actually good or not. (and I get good is subjective and really is in the eye of the beholder).... but don't be coy and pretend that stockholm syndrome doesn't exist with a lot of these people, I have seen your posts and know you are smarter than that.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Vic said:


> That's 100% false, plenty of guys have reinvented themselves as top guys after coming off of jobber runs from WWE and other companies. Juice Robinson was jobbing in NXT and he's now thriving in NJPW just to name a single example.


Can't really compare someone that was in NXT for 3 years(Robinson) to someone who was in developmental for over a decade.


----------



## Vic (Jan 2, 2010)

reyfan said:


> Can't really compare someone that was in NXT for 3 years(Robinson) to someone who was in developmental for over a decade.


It’s the same regardless of how long it took.


----------



## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Vic said:


> It’s the same regardless of how long it took.


I don't think I think it will take longer to get rid of the "WWE jobber" perception.
I hope he does well but they should have had a slow build if they plan to push him.


----------



## CM Buck (Sep 2, 2012)

I wouldn't say next top heel. I think he will be more AEWs Kane. Kanes always been the gatekeeper not so much now but back in the day beating him was huge even if he wasn't a main event talent


----------



## Desecrated (Feb 4, 2009)

kingnoth1n said:


> Its just not crisp, it feels it was all done in one take, when it didnt have to be. Especially Spears rushing his lines, this is obvious when Blanchard walked in that it was kind of a hodgepodge.
> 
> Id direct you for the 2nd piece to any of the live threads for the 2nd piece, next live thread for WWE jump in there, and youll see the same people shitting on any and everything, regardless if its actually good or not. (and I get good is subjective and really is in the eye of the beholder).... but don't be coy and pretend that stockholm syndrome doesn't exist with a lot of these people, I have seen your posts and know you are smarter than that.


That take would've been great in your first post about it. I'd agree that it comes across as done in his first take. My counter to that is that is one of the things AEW is trying to do is make things feel more authentic rather than a performance. Most guys are going to have their awkward moments at first. Omega at FFTF displays this when he's slow to put his thoughts together. But a few years down the line, if they make those improvements (speaking the promo into a mirror, natural feel for their character), it will bring their presentation alive (ECW, Austin/Rocky, NWO etcetc all had that freedom, how many have had that since Stephanie McMahon came onto the scene in 2002?). There's always going to be a few things that people want & don't want to see play out for different reasons. Scripting & multiple takes compromises on freedom & authenticity and while they aren't exclusive (can have freedom/scripting & multiple takes/authenticity etcetc), AEW so far seem to want to hone in on freedom & authenticity because it's parallel to WWE (not trying to say WWE's take here is bad, AEW just want to be completely alternative). 

(Before anyone takes the bit about talents who performed tremendously under free leash and twists it, 99.99% likely Spears & Omega aren't going to get near those at being natural speakers. But they wouldn't be as great as they were without that freedom and room to fail)

The bit about stockholm syndrome would be the wrong terminology (since it would mean that despite the abuse, they emphasise with their kidnapper/WWE) but I get the point you are trying to make. I don't really have much to add to certain things WWE does gets hate, that AEW has then done/does gets a positive reaction. End of the day, I guess it's really about trust. People are skeptical of any potential story the WWE pushes because they've been conditioned to treat it like a cake with a razor in it so can we really blame them for being pessimistic? Whereas you might think that AEW hasn't earned that blind trust. Which is perfectly natural behaviour. You see people give immediate trust or require you to earn trust in every relationship. But I agree that if anyone doesn't have anything (not one thing) good to say, they should just ignore it and move on (which I assume is another point you are on about, and why deathvalleydriver2 is the only poster I really give no time because he's moan with no growth or rationality).


----------



## kingnoth1n (Nov 21, 2016)

Desecrated said:


> That take would've been great in your first post about it. I'd agree that it comes across as done in his first take. My counter to that is that is one of the things AEW is trying to do is make things feel more authentic rather than a performance. Most guys are going to have their awkward moments at first. Omega at FFTF displays this when he's slow to put his thoughts together. But a few years down the line, if they make those improvements (speaking the promo into a mirror, natural feel for their character), it will bring their presentation alive (ECW, Austin/Rocky, NWO etcetc all had that freedom, how many have had that since Stephanie McMahon came onto the scene in 2002?). There's always going to be a few things that people want & don't want to see play out for different reasons. Scripting & multiple takes compromises on freedom & authenticity and while they aren't exclusive (can have freedom/scripting & multiple takes/authenticity etcetc), AEW so far seem to want to hone in on freedom & authenticity because it's parallel to WWE (not trying to say WWE's take here is bad, AEW just want to be completely alternative).
> 
> (Before anyone takes the bit about talents who performed tremendously under free leash and twists it, 99.99% likely Spears & Omega aren't going to get near those at being natural speakers. But they wouldn't be as great as they were without that freedom and room to fail)
> 
> The bit about stockholm syndrome would be the wrong terminology (since it would mean that despite the abuse, they emphasise with their kidnapper/WWE) but I get the point you are trying to make. I don't really have much to add to certain things WWE does gets hate, that AEW has then done/does gets a positive reaction. End of the day, I guess it's really about trust. People are skeptical of any potential story the WWE pushes because they've been conditioned to treat it like a cake with a razor in it so can we really blame them for being pessimistic? Whereas you might think that AEW hasn't earned that blind trust. Which is perfectly natural behaviour. You see people give immediate trust or require you to earn trust in every relationship. But I agree that if anyone doesn't have anything (not one thing) good to say, they should just ignore it and move on (which I assume is another point you are on about, and why deathvalleydriver2 is the only poster I really give no time because he's moan with no growth or rationality).




Good post, but there's a looming issue with production quality that really needs to be tightened. Every single show I recall has had some kind of snaffoo to some degree, and man they can really do better with the entrance ramp shots and some of these promos. I know this won't be popular to say, but I really like the way that Impact and LU shot some of their stuff, I get its really staged looking, but man the production was/is fucking top notch at some points. 


look at Killer Krosses YT channel. I mean....thats just two people Kross with Scarlett probably working the camera, but the way its cut is fucking sharp case in point:






The production here (and really Kross in general but thats another topic for another day) blows away this AEW video, and again its just one dude doing his own shit. The talent should take this level of ownership I strongly believe.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

kingnoth1n said:


> Good post, but there's a looming issue with production quality that really needs to be tightened. Every single show I recall has had some kind of snaffoo to some degree, and man they can really do better with the entrance ramp shots and some of these promos. I know this won't be popular to say, but I really like the way that Impact and LU shot some of their stuff, I get its really staged looking, but man the production was/is fucking top notch at some points.
> 
> 
> look at Killer Krosses YT channel. I mean....thats just two people Kross with Scarlett probably working the camera, but the way its cut is fucking sharp case in point:
> ...


:taker So that one video proves the talent aren't taking ownership? I saw nothing in that vid AEW hasn't done.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

.... this is a weird thread

Who knew Spears could make so many people passionate


:lenny


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## Ninja Hedgehog (Mar 22, 2018)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Juice Robinson was a young guy, and had to go over to Japan and start at the bottom.
> 
> Shawn Spears is is playing off his WWE history, so he's playing the same guy. In the kayfabe world that guy was a curtain jerking jobber.
> 
> *If he wanted a fresh start he could have came in as a new character, under a new name*, with a new kayfabe history. That would be like Mean Mark Callous or Vinnie Vegas jumping from WCW.


I might be wrong, but I think Tye Dillinger and Shawn Spears are actually different names. As for a for new character, I don't ever remember him being The Chairman in WWE. Again, I might be wrong though.

The only thing from WWE that he seems to be doing is the 10 thing (although more arrogantly now), and has he came up with it in the first place, why shouldn't he be able to use that?


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> .... this is a weird thread
> 
> Who knew Spears could make so many people passionate
> 
> ...


The chains are off :lenny


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## Ninja Hedgehog (Mar 22, 2018)

Beatles123 said:


> I WASN'T! and I didn't. :fpalm
> 
> You know what, this is exactly what I tried to warn you three about. Stop changing the subject. At worst it was a grammar error and this has nothing to do with the thread.


Honestly mate, don't waste your time and energy on any of them. Best to stick them on ignore and forget they exist. I have, and my experience here now is so much nicer for it.


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## LongPig666 (Mar 27, 2019)

AEWMoxley said:


> PAC is garbage. One of the most boring motherfuckers I've ever heard on the mic. Even more so than Spears, who is pretty bad himself.
> 
> I'm sorry for your poor talent evaluation skills.


If you think that of PAC, its you with no evaluation skills. Are you one of these wrestling people who thinks Alexa Bliss is a 'proper' wrestler?


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## NondescriptWWEfan (May 9, 2017)

i would laugh but it's not like wwe has a lot of great heels either. bliss & bryan are the only entertaining ones, Joe is booked like a joke, Strowman isn't really taken seriously, shane mcmahon is boring.

it will take a lot of work but they could make spears a success if they get everything right.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Damn. He's doing really well. 

Crazy that WWE had this guy on the roster for so long and refused to do anything with him, even in NXT. Not saying he's doing all time great work but hes shown in a couple of appearances how good he can be if allowed to be. This interview was more enjoyable than the entire never ending Shield shit in WWE.

Also crazy that potentially two of the biggest stars after leaving WWE is Cody Rhodes and Tye Dillinger. What Rhodes has done is already is incredible, and a good reminder that someone being a jobber in WWE doesn't mean anything. Realistically all the WWE's best talents are directionless jobbers while they push garbage to the top.


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## Raye (Jul 23, 2018)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Damn. He's doing really well.
> 
> Crazy that WWE had this guy on the roster for so long and refused to do anything with him, even in NXT. Not saying he's doing all time great work but hes shown in a couple of appearances how good he can be if allowed to be. This interview was more enjoyable than the entire never ending Shield shit in WWE.
> 
> Also crazy that potentially two of the biggest stars after leaving WWE is Cody Rhodes and Tye Dillinger. What Rhodes has done is already is incredible, and a good reminder that someone being a jobber in WWE doesn't mean anything. Realistically all the WWE's best talents are directionless jobbers while they push garbage to the top.


To be fair we've seen glimpses of how great Cody can be, especially with the masked/paper bag gimmick thing. Spears however never had the opportunity. Hell, when he got the '10' chant over, they refused to use him because they hated how much it interfered with every match. Everybody was engaged and screaming 10 at every count.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Ninja Hedgehog said:


> I might be wrong, but I think Tye Dillinger and Shawn Spears are actually different names. As for a for new character, I don't ever remember him being The Chairman in WWE. Again, I might be wrong though.
> 
> The only thing from WWE that he seems to be doing is the 10 thing (although more arrogantly now), and has he came up with it in the first place, why shouldn't he be able to use that?


He was "Spears" in his first wwe run. And he's referencing his wwe history both in the "10" call back references, and with the storyline training with Cody in OVW. "The Chairman" isn't a character, it's a nickname. 

When Undertaker debuted in wwe he wasn't referencing his WCW days as Mean Mark Callous. Maybe you can't do that anymore - jump promotions and take on a wholesale different character - especially going from the biggest company in the world. 

I do like the addition of Tully with Spears. That can be used to explain why Spears might be better than the jobber he was in WWE. Blanchard saw fixable flaws in his game and they fixed it etc.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

Raye said:


> To be fair we've seen glimpses of how great Cody can be, especially with the masked/paper bag gimmick thing. Spears however never had the opportunity. Hell, when he got the '10' chant over, they refused to use him because they hated how much it interfered with every match. Everybody was engaged and screaming 10 at every count.


Yeah, no doubt Cody did show how great he can be. Dashing and Undashing Cody Rhodes, Rhodes Scholars with Sandow, Rhodes Dynasty with Dustin, even the Stardust gimmick he did as best as you could expect with it. The guy had so much potential in WWE but there is that "stink" of being a WWE jobber that hurts someones image. 

Who would have thought Stardust would launch a new company that is already worrying the WWE?

Their refusal to get behind Tye even in NXT was ridiculous. The guy was over, all they had to do was push him. But thats such a familiar occurrence in WWE; Rusev, Ryder, Barret, Ziggler (years ago), Miz, etc all these guys who get over yet dont get pushed.


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## RiverFenix (Dec 10, 2011)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Yeah, no doubt Cody did show how great he can be. Dashing and Undashing Cody Rhodes, Rhodes Scholars with Sandow, Rhodes Dynasty with Dustin, even the Stardust gimmick he did as best as you could expect with it. The guy had so much potential in WWE but there is that "stink" of being a WWE jobber that hurts someones image.
> 
> Who would have thought Stardust would launch a new company that is already worrying the WWE?
> 
> Their refusal to get behind Tye even in NXT was ridiculous. The guy was over, all they had to do was push him. But thats such a familiar occurrence in WWE; Rusev, Ryder, Barret, Ziggler (years ago), Miz, etc all these guys who get over yet dont get pushed.



WWE is simply WAY too deep. When everybody is good, nobody is good. WWE literally pays people to stay home just to keep them off the indies. They don't "future endeavor" people anymore. Remember the mass firing days - where they'd do some house cleaning and release 6-7 talents in one day - when is the last time that happened? Talent could only be released if the royally screwed up (see Enzo/Cass) or if they requested it. And they won't grant you a release on request now. WWE is doubling contracts to get talent to re-sign for five years - likely under tremendous pressure. I mean if you have two years remaining and they come to you to double your current deal and re-sign - if you refuse you're likely off television for the next two years or jobbed out and booked like shit.


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE is simply WAY too deep. When everybody is good, nobody is good. WWE literally pays people to stay home just to keep them off the indies. They don't "future endeavor" people anymore. Remember the mass firing days - where they'd do some house cleaning and release 6-7 talents in one day - when is the last time that happened? Talent could only be released if the royally screwed up (see Enzo/Cass) or if they requested it. And they won't grant you a release on request now. WWE is doubling contracts to get talent to re-sign for five years - likely under tremendous pressure. I mean if you have two years remaining and they come to you to double your current deal and re-sign - if you refuse you're likely off television for the next two years or jobbed out and booked like shit.


They are "deep" no doubt.

But they also seem to handpick the dullest, least entertaining, most basic and one dimensional wrestlers on the roster. Rusev, KO, Miz, Bray, etc can do it all, Cody could do it all, Tye/Shawn can do it all. But all those guys I listed apart from KO here and there are basically just career jobbers in the WWE while they force people like Reigns and Rollins to be top guys.

I'd never looked at the contract extensions like that, but they are locking guys down early as possible now. I'd imagine if you still have a year or two left on your contract turning an extension down could be tricky as they are petty enough to then make those remaining year(s) as miserable as possible.


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## AEWMoxley (May 26, 2019)

LongPig666 said:


> If you think that of PAC, its you with no evaluation skills. Are you one of these wrestling people who thinks Alexa Bliss is a 'proper' wrestler?


I don't watch WWE and I don't care for women's wrestling. Very bizarre point you just tried to make.

I care about the only two things I've ever cared about in wrestling - charisma and promos. PAC has neither. If he did, I'd be his biggest fan.


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## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> They are "deep" no doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> But they also seem to handpick the dullest, least entertaining, most basic and one dimensional wrestlers on the roster. Rusev, KO, Miz, Bray, etc can do it all, Cody could do it all, *Tye/Shawn can do it all*. But all those guys I listed apart from KO here and there are basically just career jobbers in the WWE while they force people like Reigns and Rollins to be top guys.


When has Shawn/Tye shown he could do it all. 

Rusev is a funny case because when they were strong on his push hardcore fans rejected him. He didn't get over until "oh they're trying to ruin his marriage".

Bray and Miz aren't career jobbers they're just not the at the tippy top.


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## CRCC (Sep 25, 2017)

All this exageration around AEW is already becoming tiresome.

It is a good angle and that was a good interview, but let's just calm down a little bit, it's too early to tell. 

Right now, what we know for sure is that MJF, Jericho and Cody can easily play a better heel than what Shawn has displayed soo far.


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## LIL' WINNING FOOT (Sep 21, 2004)

Another thread on here once again ruined by the gimmick posters and the usual suspects. Noticing a pattern here...:hmmm

I'm laughing at the fact that people were quick to bury Spears the second he left WWE for AEW because they wanted to be justified that he would be exposed. I heard the same spiel with CJ Parker (Juice Robinson), Cody (who I initially doubted, too), and even Jon Moxley. Now, one thing is clear. He was definitely a hire because of his friendship with Cody. That said, the opportunity he has been given, he's succeeding with at the moment. This is the most he has been talked about or even gotten himself over since the NXT days and even then, meme NXT chants don't scale to how over he was back then either and that's clear especially now in 2019.

Spears isn't the next big heel (not with MJF around) but he clearly is one of the top talents in the company that is over. He was over at FFTF and the interview he did with JR was great in how precise he was with why he turned on Cody and how clear his mind he was in doing so. All Out will be the litmus test for Spears if he can hang with Cody and I think he is fully aware of that. Sheesh, at least give him until August 31st,

People are just looking for irrelevant reasons to hate on Spears at this point. The same 4/5 gimmick geeks on here don't surprise me in their efforts of derailing any thread here that can spark a reasonable debate or that shows optimism for a promotion that is legit competition against a company they supposedly "hate" and want a different product. They concern troll and then play the victim when their posts easily get called out and dismantled. Those who come in here and offer genuine options (even if I disagree with them like RapShepard or Mordecay) I respect. Their intentions seem legit. Hell, I'm not even an AEW "fan", either. I just like the direction the company is going while having my issues and doubts against them. I have no doubt they'll get worse come All Out and the TNT show.

It's *very* clear with some of you, though. You don't want AEW. You want AEWWE. We see your intent. We're not fooled.


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## Beatles123 (Jan 26, 2010)

WINNING said:


> Another thread on here once again ruined by the gimmick posters and the usual suspects. Noticing a pattern here...:hmmm
> 
> I'm laughing at the fact that people were quick to bury Spears the second he left WWE for AEW because they wanted to be justified that he would be exposed. I heard the same spiel with CJ Parker (Juice Robinson), Cody (who I initially doubted, too), and even Jon Moxley. Now, one thing is clear. He was definitely a hire because of his friendship with Cody. That said, the opportunity he has been given, he's succeeding with at the moment. This is the most he has been talked about or even gotten himself over since the NXT days and even then, meme NXT chants don't scale to how over he was back then either and that's clear especially now in 2019.
> 
> ...


Give this man a medal.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Regards to Spears I'd like him in maybe a small stable but perhaps too soon to think about.


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## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

I think he lacks charisma.


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## Laughable Chimp (Sep 1, 2016)

My biggest disappointment with Shawn Spears's new gimmick is that he can't join as the third Lucha Brother, Decagon Jr.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

All these people hating on Spears will be on his dick soon. Mark my words

He's got everything to be a true heel that everyone will hate.



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Damn. He's doing really well.
> 
> Crazy that WWE had this guy on the roster for so long and refused to do anything with him, even in NXT. Not saying he's doing all time great work but hes shown in a couple of appearances how good he can be if allowed to be. This interview was more enjoyable than the entire never ending Shield shit in WWE.
> 
> Also crazy that potentially two of the biggest stars after leaving WWE is Cody Rhodes and Tye Dillinger. What Rhodes has done is already is incredible, and a good reminder that someone being a jobber in WWE doesn't mean anything. Realistically all the WWE's best talents are directionless jobbers while they push garbage to the top.


His gimmick was fucking trash. I used to hate him in WWE and thought he looked like a moron.

WWE doesn't know how to do anything right. That's what happens when you micro manage talents to the point where they act like robots and can't be themselves. Like, the WWE literally has their two biggest stars ever Rock and Austin basically saying on interviews and DVD's that what made their character great is that they got to be themselves with the volume turned up. Yet we see the exact opposite with their stars. 

That company is so damn ass backwards it's unbelievable.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Heeling it up


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1152965893053386753


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## Eva MaRIHyse (Jun 20, 2014)

TheDraw said:


> All these people hating on Spears will be on his dick soon. Mark my words
> 
> He's got everything to be a true heel that everyone will hate.
> 
> ...


I agree with that, but Tye made the "10" gimmick work, he got really over.


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## oleanderson89 (Feb 13, 2015)

The way I see it is simple, Shawn has 5 to 6 good years left in him. He can be a very good upper mid card/semi-main event type guy. All he needs is some credibility. The damage done to him can be repaired if he is put in decent angles.

Sure his history with Cody has what led to this feud. Nevertheless he is talented and is capable of delivering far more than what WWE made everyone believe.


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## NXT Only (Apr 3, 2016)

Spears is doing great. 

But just like anything in life the people who hate something are louder than the people who love it/enjoy it. 

There’s nothing currently in AEW where I’m like “I hate that” “Don’t do that”

I think there’s things they can expand upon a bit more or tweak but there’s nothing that’s so bad it’s worth hating.


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## TD Stinger (May 9, 2012)

Honestly I think people are going overboard on both sides.

Just because he was a "WWE reject", doesn't mean he can't make big contributions. And yes, a big reason he's in this spot is because of his relationship to Cody. And as long as they tell a good story, I don't really care.

On the other hand......it's been one show and one interview. Not really enough for me to say "he's doing great!" He spoke well for himself in the interview. And he had good heel moments in the 6 Man Tag. But I still think he's finding his way in terms of looks and facial expressions as a heel. Plus his entrance music.....my God what is he going for.

So, can we at least let this breathe a bit before we put him on a pedestal or bury they guy?


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## Prosper (Mar 25, 2015)

Vic said:


> That's 100% false, plenty of guys have reinvented themselves as top guys after coming off of jobber runs from WWE and other companies. Juice Robinson was jobbing in NXT and he's now thriving in NJPW just to name a single example.


And that's not to even mention Moxley, Jericho, and Cody who have all reinvented themselves.


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## Ninja Hedgehog (Mar 22, 2018)

TD Stinger said:


> Honestly I think people are going overboard on both sides.
> 
> Just because he was a "WWE reject", doesn't mean he can't make big contributions. And yes, a big reason he's in this spot is because of his relationship to Cody. And as long as they tell a good story, I don't really care.
> 
> ...












For further proof, see every other thread about something or someone new on WF


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## Coyotex (Jun 28, 2011)

that was a good segment, im really hoping AEW can give us these kind of presentations on live tv when you know the world is watching

i hate to be that guy but you compare a laid back but serious toned promo like that to something from say becky's man and it really just separates the boys from the men


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I’m assuming this can just turn in a general Spears fan thread now?

Guy is cold 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1153685246522662913


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m assuming this can just turn in a general Spears fan thread now?
> 
> Guy is cold <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> ...


Damn that was cold. Love it lol

Spears is awesome.


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## The Masked Avenger (Apr 18, 2018)

I was really looking forward to this but I think I might have crossed that line in to full blown excited. This is getting good and I kinda hope it's not just a one off now.


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## TripleG (Dec 8, 2004)

When I heard AEW had signed Tye, I thought "Good for him". The dude got over in NXT and was doing really well (I loved his stuff with Bobby Roode), but alas, he got to the main roster, the "10" thing got over in a way where the WWE treated it as a gag and gave him nothing to do, and that was the end of that. 

So I was more than willing to give the guy a chance in AEW because I saw some potential. Him as a heel though? Huh, not what I would have expected. There are still some unknowns there, but I'd say so far, so good. 

All Out is one of those cards that seems poised to offer a little bit of everything. Ladder/Spotfesty match? Bucks Vs. Luchas, so Check. Young Lion Vs. Old Vet? Hangman Vs. Jericho, so Check. Wild hardcore war with new age stars? Omega Vs. Moxley, so Check. Tag Teams? Check for sure. Two big as fuck brutes going at it? Kong Vs. Kong, so potentially a check. 

And then we have Cody Vs. Spears which is more the old school, NWA style grudge match and feud, so color me excited.


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## imthegame19 (Oct 12, 2008)

https://youtu.be/mem9mMpNPhY


Cody/Spears feud in Ohio Valley.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m assuming this can just turn in a general Spears fan thread now?
> 
> Guy is cold
> 
> ...


This just shows how much talent WWE has and wastes. This guy got over as a face in NXT and got called up to main roster was made a jobber since day one.


What people don't know about Spears is him and Cody partnered and feuded in Ohio Valley in 06-07. So Cody knew how good if a heel he could be from when they feuded before. It's a great that a guy who clearly has talent is finally getting a chance even at age 38.


This is why it's great having two quality wrestling orginzation so guys with talent who might have been cast off elsewhere can turn you into stars with opportunity. Just like we saw in the late 90s. TNA never was creative enough to do this. They either brought in guys from Indies and ex WWE guys and kept them the same. If Spears was in TNA between 05-15 he would just showed up as a face and doing 10 stuff. Instead with AEW they are using Spears skills and turning him into brand new heel character.


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## Optikk is All Elite (Sep 5, 2007)

I've been very impressed with Spears. I want him to actually win this feud with Cody. When's the last time we had a legitimate heel?


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

And a legit heel people can hate

I don’t see him going into that ‘cool badboy’ type heel who smarks love to cheer.

Looks like he’s just going to get hate - which is great.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Bully lays it out

Now, when a young guy goes over Spears, it is not a meaningless win over an old wwe jobber - it is a rub by a star


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1154469594435915776


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