# Dork Order is costing AEW fans



## DZ Crew (Sep 26, 2016)

At least they didn't watch long enough to see Cassidy show up. Hangman needs to cut himself loose from these jobbers already.


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## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s. Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. Moved on to UFC. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at home lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit". Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


Writing self misery porn is kinda wack tbh dude.


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## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

edit: nvm delete haha


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## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Jeez, I'll never get the extreme hate that Dark Order gets on here (or even Orange Cassidy too).

They're over as acts with the crowds, and they're capable of putting on solid tag matches.

Plus, the fact that they have Anna Jay associated with them is a huge bonus.


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## thorn123 (Oct 10, 2019)

I don't think hangman should have angles with DO, but being friends is ok. They serve a purpose as enhancement talent and comedy mid carders. But if they are bad for business then i'd imagine they wouldn't last long.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

I'm okay with Dork Order, OC, Hardy goofs, and Marko Stunt if they can stick and leave them on Dark where they belong. But seriously putting them on a national tv channel when your roster now has so much variety to use, is beyond comprehensible. People tend to forget that some of the worst offensive botches are from Evil Uno. And recently OC shoving his head into a chair.


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## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

Oc is one of their best merch movers so I still don't understand the hate


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## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

They're fine being background noise... Thinking back to the attitude era and even ruthless aggression... they had comedy acts to fill in even on major TV.


For example like Too Cool, and Shane Helms etc.. 

Can't have all serious all the time. Tires people out...


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## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

The main issues I personally have with Dork Order are:
A) They're an unorganized mess. It'd be tough to find someone who knows most of their members.
B) They've transitioned into a comedy faction, that's still called Dark Order and they have maintained their "evil" music. It's a disconnect for me. I assume viewers who see them for the first time are also confused by it.
C) Considering the previous two points, their strong association with Adam Page who is supposed to be the top guy in AEW isn't ideal

The group either needs to be disbanded or be repackaged.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

They represent really the worst in AEW. All the bad things associated with AEW is the image of the Dork Order. It's a stench to the company, they should get rid of it but never will cause obviously TK is in love with the concept. And that says so much.


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## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I've never really gotten the visceral hatred for the Dark Order.

IMO the Hardy Family Office is like 10x worse


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## zkorejo (Jul 2, 2010)

At this point I'm okay with everyone but Hardy Office. Hardy and private party is fine but Butcher and Blade and H20 or whatever they call themselves. That's just like too many random people/tag teams thrown together and don't even fit together. 

Matt Hardy also needs to be in lesser 
prominent feuds imo. He has a name value still and I know his match with Darby drew a good number but idk. I'm just over Matt at this point. His feuds go way too long and it just gets annoying to me for some reason.


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## Stellar (May 30, 2016)

The group does need to be sorted out, that much ill agree. They haven't had a solid direction (outside of cheering for Hangman) since Brodie's death and Tony hasn't done anything because they are in fact loved as a group. The crowd was cheering when John Silver was talking on Dynamite.

There is nothing wrong with wrestlers being comedic however. It's been in wrestling forever. It's a break from all of the serious stuff. Not everything in wrestling is for everyone and not everything in wrestling has to be serious. Some of the most loved wrestlers and acts in the attitude era were big brawny wrestlers acting silly.

Also, considering that we are in the era where plenty of muscled up wrestlers are openly for video games I don't think that calling wrestlers "dorks" for how they look or act is wise. Especially when a John Silver likes to flex to show off how more muscled up he is than the average guy.

Seems like the group of friends just don't "get it" and nothing should be gauged from that. Not every wrestling fan takes everything overly seriously. I wouldn't want to be around people that are openly rude and judgmental about what I like to watch. It doesn't make anyone any less of a man to enjoy silly acts like the Dark Order.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

I for one lost hope in AEW the first episode when I saw the masked big guy with his belly hanging out of his shirt prancing around like he was some big shot to be taken seriously. I knew the stench of indy would be strong with AEW which is not my cup of tea.


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## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

TheDraw said:


> I for one lost hope in AEW the first episode when I saw the masked big guy with his belly hanging out of his shirt prancing around like he was some big shot to be taken seriously. I knew the stench of indy would be strong with AEW which is not my cup of tea.





Razgriz said:


> They're fine being background noise... Thinking back to the attitude era and even ruthless aggression... they had comedy acts to fill in even on major TV.
> 
> 
> For example like Too Cool, and Shane Helms etc..
> ...


More like a way less interesting version of The Oddities.


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Razgriz said:


> They're fine being background noise... Thinking back to the attitude era and even ruthless aggression... they had comedy acts to fill in even on major TV.
> 
> 
> For example like Too Cool, and Shane Helms etc..
> ...


Too Cool and Shane Helms were both 10x more talented than the dork order, lol.


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## Lorromire (Jun 17, 2014)

Damn, man. Your cousins were turned off by The DO? Take them off of TV RIGHT. NOW.

Like I get it, though. I had a friend of mine who used to watch WWE back in the day come over and I showed him current WWE, the first thing he saw was Roman, The Usos, and Big E. He laughed at how horrible they all were and claimed it was awful.

Some acts people like and some acts people hate. Clearly those above, including The DO are over with the majority of the current fanbase. Why would you not want to use an act that's over?


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## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

TheDraw said:


> More like a way less interesting version of The Oddities.


dont you remember back in 1998..after a two year journey Austin finally won the title at wm 14...the next night on raw it started with the oddities in the ring and they introduced the new world champion steve austin...he came down and hugged the oddities...and then the rocks music hit..he came to the ring...and set up a match down the line against austin.....but first he was going to wrestle every member of the oddities? wasnt that brilliant long term booking by vince? where would austin have been without his affiliation with the oddities?


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## PhenomenalOne11 (Oct 2, 2016)

The Dark Order is just awful in every way possible, Page just loses his aura by being associated with them. They're one of the worst parts of AEW.


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## shawnyhc01 (Feb 25, 2011)

Even Dark Order is nonsense, but still better than the shit of The Tribal Chief gang.


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

They'll keep it alive as long as possible to milk Brodie sympathy.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

PhenomenalOne11 said:


> The Dark Order is just awful in every way possible, Page just loses his aura by being associated with them. They're one of the worst parts of AEW.


Hey maybe the guy was lonely not being with his Elite buddies. At least if Page had a cool group of badasses, that would be another matter.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

your cousins are whack


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## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

Well sure. Sounds like your cousins certainly paid attention to the product and made an informed decision after watching a full 20 seconds - which would have literally been one guy announcing Hangman to the ring, while a few others stood behind him.

Honestly, the Dark Order just look like a normal group of wrestlers. Why are people hung up on them "looking" bad?
I seriously don't know what you're referring to. They are just normal looking wrestlers, in the normal kinds of ring gear.

Maybe I'm missing something.
(or maybe people just love to shit all over any aspect of AEW that they can, and this is today's topic because reasons).


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## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

The only people that don’t like Dark Order are the WWE geezers. And as we know from the ratings, that group doesn’t matter.

My advice to the OP. Go watch NXT 2.0. They need all the viewers they can get at this point 😂


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## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

Randy Lahey said:


> The only people that don’t like Dark Order are the WWE geezers. And as we know from the ratings, that group doesn’t matter.


Yes, everyone that doesn’t like everything AEW is a wwe fan boy.

You’d think after years of posting this opinion and being told otherwise would change your view but here we are.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

They're a mid to low card comedy act.

If that's putting people off wrestling then they're people that are unlikely to have stayed long term anyway


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

They really aren't costing fans in the slightest. If people will turn off for one small segment, then they will likely turn off for anything else eventually.

I don't dislike them but they've definitely grown stale.


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## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

Randy Lahey said:


> *The only people that don’t like Dark Order are the WWE geezers. * And as we know from the ratings, that group doesn’t matter.
> 
> My advice to the OP. Go watch NXT 2.0. They need all the viewers they can get at this point 😂


Nonsense.


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## Banez (Dec 18, 2012)

stopped reading after he called it 'the dork order' taking all the valid points that would show up after irrelevant.

If you resort to name calling a faction because of your personal dislike thats fine. But if you are trying to make a claim that they are costing AEW fans, then you probably dont want to bring up your prejudiced opinion about it ahead.


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## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s. Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. Moved on to UFC. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at how lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit". Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


100%.

AEW basically sabotages itself every few weeks. Love Danielson actually calling out the ghostbusters nonsense. 

I don't know what they expect the reaction of a casual fan to be towards that goofy bullshit. Do they not realise it's exactly this kind of stuff that gives professional wrestling a bad name?

Khan isn't going to act. The inmates are running the asylum and so long as trash like the Bucks have influence the show will continue to embarrass itself at every opportunity.


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## DRose1994 (Nov 12, 2020)

I was close to turning my TV off when the show opened with Dark Order in the ring, just on the principle. They’re a comedy job group and they’re heavily associated with their baby face champion — it’s disappointing because they really had something with that segment.
It was still very good — Bryan and Page look like stars and the fans are into it but we didn’t need the visual of DO out there with them. Talk about out of place.


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## adamclark52 (Nov 27, 2015)

I really wouldn’t worry about what a bunch of UFC fans think.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*I watched last night's episode with a friend who watches WWE and she said "These guys suck." in reference to the Dark Order and "Why isn't the referee doing anything?" in reference to the tag team match. *


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I was watching AEW with my 62 year old great grandpa

halfway through he said ‘wait! This isn’t wwe!’ and he died on the spot


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## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

I’ve gotten a bunch of folks from work who fell out of touch with pro wrestling for years and they’ve found the dark order quite entertaining, almost endearing. 

It works both ways. Not everyone is going to love everything.


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## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

I think it's cute how many people are pretending they watched last night's show with friends.


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## MIZizAwesome (Apr 6, 2012)

They are an embarrassment. They look like they come from $2 rejected wrestling game or something. None of them besides the girl have a good look. The dude in the mask even looks stupid and worse when he speaks. Shit like this is why Vince won't take them seriously. I had to skip through after that dark started announcing Page and what's he like 4'8?


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

DammitChrist said:


> Jeez, I'll never get the extreme hate that Dark Order gets on here (or even Orange Cassidy too).
> 
> They're over as acts with the crowds, and they're capable of putting on solid tag matches.
> 
> Plus, the fact that they have Anna Jay associated with them is a huge bonus.


The Dork Order had never been over, they're arguably the worst stable of all time


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Razgriz said:


> They're fine being background noise... Thinking back to the attitude era and even ruthless aggression... they had comedy acts to fill in even on major TV.
> 
> 
> For example like Too Cool, and Shane Helms etc..
> ...


Too Cool actually broke in to the mainstream and were massively over.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

Yea they tune me out. The reffing is a way bigger issue for me though. Uninteresting reactions and segments is nothing new, but the reffing thing pulls me out more than any of the wrestlers. But I realize it just might not be a product for me. I'll give it a couple more weeks to see what happens with the Punk stuff. No big deal. They have a permanent fan base that they can survive on for quite awhile.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

reyfan said:


> They'll keep it alive as long as possible to milk Brodie sympathy.


Pretty much this. Its just a Brodie sympathy act at this point.


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## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

the_flock said:


> Too Cool actually broke in to the mainstream and were massively over.


Which says a lot about wrestling quite honestly. There was a lot of dumb crap that caught on from the attitude era that would be completely obliterated, especially on this very critical message board. Too Cool would absolutely get the “should be on Dark” treatment. 

A lot of folks on here are just again comedy with their wrestling which is fine. It’s all a matter of taste.


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## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Sad Panda said:


> Which says a lot about wrestling quite honestly. There was a lot of dumb crap that caught on from the attitude era that would be completely obliterated, especially on this very critical message board. Too Cool would absolutely get the “should be on Dark” treatment.
> 
> A lot of folks on here are just again comedy with their wrestling which is fine. It’s all a matter of taste.


I don't think so. Too Cool actually represented the time perfectly. They looked cool and whacky. They had cool moves. Rikishi joining was the cherry on the cake.


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## Sad Panda (Aug 16, 2021)

the_flock said:


> I don't think so. Too Cool actually represented the time perfectly. They looked cool and whacky. They had cool moves. Rikishi joining was the cherry on the cake.


I’m just saying in today’s world it would not represent well and would be hated on this message board. (Two unimpressive white midget goofs who have unimposing move sets and look like a create a wrestler vomited on my tv screen.) Not my words by the way, just what would be said about the duo today.


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## ripcitydisciple (Dec 18, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Jeez, I'll never get the extreme hate that Dark Order gets on here (or even Orange Cassidy too).
> 
> They're over as acts with the crowds, and they're capable of putting on solid tag matches.
> 
> Plus, the fact that they have Anna Jay associated with them is a huge bonus.


At is this point, I am wondering if this is stubbornness or dumbness. Evil Uno got huge cheers against Danielson tonight and yet we still have people saying the Dark Order isn't over and 'driving away fans.'

It has to be one or the other.


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## Freelancer (Aug 24, 2010)

I dont mind them on their own, but the AEW champ doesn't need to be associated with them.


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## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

Unfortunately they´re probably not going anywhere. Tony loves them -My guess is he sees a lot of himself in those geeks.

But I agree with the OP. Anyone tuning in and see Evil Uno or John Silver shouting "Johnny HUNGEEE" while being the size of a smurf is gonna go "what is this shit?"
There is a place for lowcard jobbers in wrestling, but not in association with the champion. Imagine The Rock or SCSA hanging out with The Oddities? Yeah, that didn´t happen for a reason.


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## The_Great_One21 (Feb 22, 2012)

Fine as midcard comedy act. Even going for the tag titles occasionally. However it’s laughable they are out there celebrating with Hangman after his title win and even worse they re introducing him last night.

Should have ended the hard association after they lost to the elite


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## justin waynes (Feb 8, 2020)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s. Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. Moved on to UFC. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at how lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit". Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


This is what I experience with my brothers too. They laugh at wwe and make fun of aew. I can't watch wwe with them not to talk of aew with their style of everything


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

no comment


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## Gn1212 (May 17, 2012)

I was watching it with Hulkster, he told me he wrestled Johnny Hungee at Wrestlemania 6 in 1990.
I told him that was Ultimate Warrior.
He told me it was a dark march, he wasn't gonna let the hulkamaniacs go home thinking the Hulk Hogan was a loser.


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## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

What the OP experienced is EXACTLY what fans other than the hardcore Indy fanbase and the delusionals that are just hoping so bad for them to eclipse WWE see when watching AEW!!!

They are ran and presented like an Indy promotion. 90% of their roster are geeks and has beens. There is nothing about the product that will attract an audience beyond the faithful and loud FEW.


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## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

I agree, the dork order is indeed costing AEW fans.

But there are other jobbers and old washed up WWE farts that costing them too.


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## hardcorewrasslin (Jun 29, 2016)

Your cousins are shit


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## What A Maneuver (Jun 16, 2013)

They're a mismatched looking group of jobbers. If people like them they can use them, just not in the world title scene. You keep your comedy jobbers with your other comedy jobbers. Hangman should not be having his tv time taken as champ over a dude yelling about being hungee.


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## Blade Runner (Jan 24, 2012)

It was far worse when AEW wanted people to take them seriously. At least now they're being presented like dorky jobbers which kinda works for this specific storyline.


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## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. *I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s.* Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. *Moved on to UFC*. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at how lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed *and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit".* Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


AEW aside you need to grow some balls and don't let your 30 something cousins UFC fanboys that use terms like "incel" boss around your house.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s. Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. Moved on to UFC. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at how lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit". Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


Good thing the crowd loves them only this forum cries lol

Tbf ppl will say that about wrestling period its fake etc etc


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

They stopped watching at the age of 11/12? In no way can someone who hasn't taken an interest in wrestling since that age just jump back into as a grown man/woman. It was a flash in a pan fad for them - like it is for 25% of boys - then they moved on. 

It would be like a person stops watching wrestling in 1979 at the age of 11. An era in which wrestling tried like it was a legit sport, then tries to get into it again in 1999. It's not happening unless it's their kid who watches. 

BTW I knew a lot of people who thought what WWF and WCW were doing at the turn of the millennium was garbage. They might chuckle at an angle involving Austin and McMahon or take notice at the Tyson brawl. That was about it. Things like The Godfather, Val Venis, DX was dumb shit. They'd consider Too Cool, Crash Holly and Mean Street Posse to be embarrassing.


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## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

They are tv channel changing bad and only the blind aew fanboys will defend this crap.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Gn1212 said:


> The main issues I personally have with Dork Order are:
> A) They're an unorganized mess. It'd be tough to find someone who knows most of their members.
> B) They've transitioned into a comedy faction, that's still called Dark Order and they have maintained their "evil" music. It's a disconnect for me. I assume viewers who see them for the first time are also confused by it.
> C) Considering the previous two points, their strong association with Adam Page who is supposed to be the top guy in AEW isn't ideal
> ...


Not tough at all there are plenty of ppl who know all the members myself included.

If you paid attention to the story itd be obvious why they have an association.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Op is interesting, but as a counter point, I today showed a video of Dark Order to my grandma’s gynaecologist

and in between spit takes he exclaimed: “what in the pussy willow is that?!!”

he promptly pulled out a cowboy hat, from where my grandma didn’t want to say and started doing the Dark Order claw…. Its a shame he wasnt‘ done with the examination and nana quietly passed away with an ecstatic smile on her face muttering ‘i told grandpa to stop watching NXT’

So, dark order definitely drew a new fan


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

All of the bollocks about casuals is becoming the new ratings. We have a forum full of "experts" that don't realise that people won't come back to or try wrestling because it's about as cool as watching Peppa Pig to most.


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## MrFlash (Jan 9, 2016)




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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Dickhead1990 said:


> All of the bollocks about casuals is becoming the new ratings. We have a forum full of "experts" that don't realise that people won't come back to or try wrestling because it's about as cool as watching Peppa Pig to most.


that does not even matter, Its bad tv. You find me another product that is not a comedy show to be laughed out the door that would logically have a fucking bad ass cowboy solo guy that is over as fuck and has a slogan cowbyshit.Where they would have them paired with dorky lucha wannabes that is nothing far from what a cowboy is that even wear stupid mini cowboy hats too.This entire thing makes what could have been a solo hangman compelling story to making him less big of a deal acting like a half cheese ball dipping into badass but cant even do either. You wont find it because its nonsense unless its comedy and this is not comedy. Hangman is not supposed to be someone we just laugh at. Imagine stonecold was his normal anti hero self and vince decided to pair im with he with the Oddities, you cant because he wouldnt be stupid enough to do such a thing during his hottest run.


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

shandcraig said:


> that does not even matter, Its bad tv. You find me another product that is not a comedy show to be laughed out the door that would logically have a fucking bad ass cowboy solo guy that is over as fuck and has a slogan cowbyshit.Where they would have them paired with dorky lucha wannabes that is nothing far from what a cowboy is that even wear stupid mini cowboy hats too.This entire thing makes what could have been a solo hangman compelling story to making him less big of a deal acting like a half cheese ball dipping into badass but cant even do either. You wont find it because its nonsense unless its comedy and this is not comedy. Hangman is not supposed to be someone we just laugh at. Imagine stonecold was his normal anti hero self and vince decided to pair im with he with the Oddities, you cant because he wouldnt be stupid enough to do such a thing during his hottest run.


I stopped reading halfway due to poor punctuation and ranty drivel. Something about not liking it? Would you like to speak to my manager maybe?


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## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Dickhead1990 said:


> I stopped reading halfway due to poor punctuation and ranty drivel. Something about not liking it? Would you like to speak to my manager maybe?



always the people in here that get offended have to attack individuals instead of having valid points. Who cares if the punctuation is bad, get over yourself.


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## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

A group that is popular with AEW fans is costing AEW fans. Unbelievable.


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## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Razgriz said:


> They're fine being background noise... Thinking back to the attitude era and even ruthless aggression... they had comedy acts to fill in even on major TV.
> 
> 
> For example like Too Cool, and Shane Helms etc..
> ...


You rarely saw Too Cool and Shane Helms hanging around the world champion of your product in the main event of your PPV. Like Austin was drinking beer and dancing with Rikishi in 1999 after beating HHH. Yeah, no.

Save Dork Order for Dark. The group in general should have gotta phased out after Brody died.


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## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s. Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. Moved on to UFC. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at how lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit". Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


Days ago we heard, that Punk already gave up on getting new fans from outside the wrestling bubble. Like you can see here, the peeps inside the bubble like the Order. So I guess AEW will keep this.


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## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

shandcraig said:


> always the people in here that get offended have to attack individuals instead of having valid points. Who cares if the punctuation is bad, get over yourself.


It isn't really valid though, is it?

I'm not offended, just bored of the same shit.


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## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The Legit DMD said:


> *I watched last night's episode with a friend who watches WWE and she said "These guys suck." in reference to the Dark Order and "Why isn't the referee doing anything?" in reference to the tag team match. *


Cool story 

I watched with 100 people they all cheered and talked about how alpha Dark Order is and said the UFC were full of betas compared to AEW.

(You see posting made up storys isn't hard)

🤣


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## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

If TK insists on keeping dork order around can he at least spend a few dollars upgrading their wrestling wardrobe? they look like they just teleported in from an indy show in front of 200 fans. I have never seen such an amateur looking group on a major promotion in my life.


----------



## Riddle101 (Aug 15, 2006)

Dark Order wouldn't be might cup of tea but the wrestlers in the stable are actually pretty talented, like John Silver and Preston Vance. They could have changed their image when Brodie Lee took over because it kind've looked out of place when Brodie was wearing suits and they were wearing the masks. That being said, I have no issue with them. They seem more like a family than a stable at this point, and that feels wholesome to me.


----------



## Ger (Jul 20, 2018)

Joe Gill said:


> If TK insists on keeping dork order around can he at least spend a few dollars upgrading their wrestling wardrobe? they look like they just teleported in from an indy show in front of 200 fans. I have never seen such an amateur looking group on a major promotion in my life.


But that is exactly what the hardcore fans want: the good old times. Like I said before, if you choose to prefer to feed the hardcore wrestling fans and spam wrestling inside jokes in your program, you won't get new viewers. The best you can get are a few more indy fans and a few WWE fans.
At best AEW can get some young adult viewers in future, who are watching WWE as kids now.


----------



## VGK (Nov 17, 2021)

Don't worry OP, Bryan is about to put them all on the shelf. 😈


----------



## Blaze2k2 (Dec 3, 2019)

yeahright2 said:


> Unfortunately they´re probably not going anywhere. Tony loves them -My guess is he sees a lot of himself in those geeks.
> 
> But I agree with the OP. Anyone tuning in and see Evil Uno or John Silver shouting "Johnny HUNGEEE" while being the size of a smurf is gonna go "what is this shit?"
> There is a place for lowcard jobbers in wrestling, but not in association with the champion. Imagine The Rock or SCSA hanging out with The Oddities? Yeah, that didn´t happen for a reason.


No instead the Rock hung out with Mick Foley doing Mr. Socko skits.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Randy Lahey said:


> The only people that don’t like Dark Order are the WWE geezers. And as we know from the ratings, that group doesn’t matter.
> 
> My advice to the OP. Go watch NXT 2.0. They need all the viewers they can get at this point 😂


We enjoy what we are or what we want to be. So those who enjoy the Dork Order well, yea. 

Mirror image, that's the thing with the DO, they keep giving AEW that stupid geek stench. Doesn't this bother AEW fans that this is what people think of them?


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

the_flock said:


> I don't think so. Too Cool actually represented the time perfectly. They looked cool and whacky. They had cool moves. Rikishi joining was the cherry on the cake.


Too Cool were the highlights of the party, Dork Order are the guys that cannot get into the party.


----------



## RockettotheCrockett (Oct 30, 2021)

So out of this stable the ones I feel can make it, in purely professional wrestling would be John Silver and Alex Reynolds. They make such as good tag team and can definitely be up there with the likes of FTR, Santana & Ortiz etc. So I say for the sake of shaking things up allow the DO to break up, probably after the anniversary of Brodie's passing and then let some of them join other wrestling stables and then some of them to do their own thing. They are starting to grow stale.


----------



## Greatsthegreats (Apr 15, 2015)

DZ Crew said:


> At least they didn't watch long enough to see Cassidy show up. Hangman needs to cut himself loose from these jobbers already.


pun intended?


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Dickhead1990 said:


> All of the bollocks about casuals is becoming the new ratings. We have a forum full of "experts" that don't realise that people won't come back to or try wrestling because it's about as cool as watching Peppa Pig to most.


I know I find it hilarious when people call thing goofy and nerdy, yet they are here discussing wrestling on a daily basis


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

DammitChrist said:


> Jeez, I'll never get the extreme hate that Dark Order gets on here (or even Orange Cassidy too).
> 
> They're over as acts with the crowds, and they're capable of putting on solid tag matches.
> 
> Plus, the fact that they have Anna Jay associated with them is a huge bonus.


Well us fans of actual pro wrestling, who respect it as an artform, dont care for comedy acts whose entire gimmick involves mocking wrestling and calling it fake. If youve ever sold for an invisible hand grenade, wrestled yourself or a sex doll, or worked a match with a child, you do not have the right to be called a pro wrestler. I have no love for hardcore and ultraviolent wrestling, but I can respect it mor than this phoney BS. Chikara went out of business for a reason


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Leviticus said:


> Well us fans of actual pro wrestling, who respect it as an artform, dont care for comedy acts whose entire gimmick involves mocking wrestling and calling it fake. If youve ever sold for an invisible hand grenade, wrestled yourself or a sex doll, or worked a match with a child, you do not have the right to be called a pro wrestler. I have no love for hardcore and ultraviolent wrestling, but I can respect it mor than this phoney BS. Chikara went out of business for a reason


You’re a fan of ‘old school north american Pro wrestling’

which is just another style under the vast umbrella of ‘Pro Wrestling’


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You’re a fan of ‘old school north american Pro wrestling’
> 
> which is just another style under the vast umbrella of ‘Pro Wrestling’


The entire point of pro wrestling is to resemble legit competition, and to allow fans to suspend disbelief. People like Pockets and the Job Order and even the Young Bucks to a lesser extent, intentionally make it look fake. 

Even after wrestling was ousted as scripted, the performers tried to pull fans in and let them beleive it was real. One fan got so caught up in the NWO during an episode of Nitro that they called the police to report a gang assault after they attacked Rey Mysterio. That is what wrestling is supposed to be. It take alot of talent to get fans that invested in a match or angle.

Guys like Cassidy the DO and go the other route. They think that they should showcase wrestling's scripted nature and make fun of it, and by extension make fun of fans who watch it trying to suspend disbelieft.
Iwould compare their style of "wrestling" to, if at the end of Saving Private Ryan, when Tom Hanks' character dies, he jumps up and dances around and shows off all the fake bullet wounds and shows that all the bullets in his gun are blanks. Thats how these guys view wrestling.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Leviticus said:


> The entire point of pro wrestling is to resemble legit competition, and to allow fans to suspend disbelief. People like Pockets and the Job Order and even the Young Bucks to a lesser extent, intentionally make it look fake.
> 
> Even after wrestling was ousted as scripted, the performers tried to pull fans in and let them beleive it was real. One fan got so caught up in the NWO during an episode of Nitro that they called the police to report a gang assault after they attacked Rey Mysterio. That is what wrestling is supposed to be. It take alot of talent to get fans that invested in a match or angle.
> 
> ...


That is the point of ‘that style’ of pro wrestling

pro wrestling is much wider than just one style - don’t gatekeep it

Pro Wrestling started in France - this is how a lot of it looked


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454730703309099008
Cassidy is just as much of a Pro Wrestler as Blassie

Cassidy = Blassidy lol


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Leviticus said:


> Well us fans of actual pro wrestling, who respect it as an artform, dont care for comedy acts whose entire gimmick involves mocking wrestling and calling it fake. If youve ever sold for an invisible hand grenade, wrestled yourself or a sex doll, or worked a match with a child, you do not have the right to be called a pro wrestler. I have no love for hardcore and ultraviolent wrestling, but I can respect it mor than this phoney BS. Chikara went out of business for a reason


Yea, I'd love to break it to you, but Kenny Omega IS (thankfully) a professional wrestler.


----------



## Dickhead1990 (Aug 31, 2016)

Gwi1890 said:


> I know I find it hilarious when people call thing goofy and nerdy, yet they are here discussing wrestling on a daily basis


This is exactly what this fandom is in reality. We all need the perspective that our interest is very unappealing to the majority of people.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Gwi1890 said:


> I know I find it hilarious when people call thing goofy and nerdy, yet they are here discussing wrestling on a daily basis



thats just it, a lot of us are just trying to make wrestling become less nerdy again.It was not always presented like this and it was looked at with a different view from the world before. We love the business so of course we here lol but like good movies and shows we want that aspect back for wrestling. Its entirely fair and its part of why millions have left the business as fans over the years.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Too Cool were the highlights of the party, Dork Order are the guys that cannot get into the party.


Yeah ....no

Wankster and a dipshit with a Jersey flattop dancing like idiots joined by a fat sumo wearing a thong.......totally screams we're getting into the party........ummmm sure. (I'd like to order some of those rose tinted glasses lmfao)


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> thats just it, a lot of us are just trying to make wrestling become less nerdy again.It was not always presented like this and it was looked at with a different view from the world before. We love the business so of course we here lol but like good movies and shows we want that aspect back for wrestling. Its entirely fair and its part of why millions have left the business as fans over the years.


Wow what a bunch of made up horse shit 🤭🤣

Theres no kayfabe so the muscle bound jocks look just as dorky as anyone else because at the end if the day they're all play fighting and EVERYONE knows it.

Wredtling will never be cool to mainstream its soap opera level acting with suplexes. The fans didnt just leave because the wrestlers looks changed, the entire industry changed. 

The leader in the sport watered everything down went PG and turned it into Disneyland no one over the age of 12 could even watch. 

There will NEVER be the giant audiences of the old days because there are better programming to full what little niches wrestling filled for ppl. There are thousands of dramas and action films free to stream and MMA and the rise of combat sports pit a dent in the viewership too.

@shandcraig you may think higher of yourself but you're no more or less nerdy then anyone else here but yes you are a nerd......(like the rest of us)


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> thats just it, a lot of us are just trying to make wrestling become less nerdy again.It was not always presented like this and it was looked at with a different view from the world before. We love the business so of course we here lol but like good movies and shows we want that aspect back for wrestling. Its entirely fair and its part of why millions have left the business as fans over the years.


from my personal experience once kayfabe died you got shit for being a wrestling fan even during the attitude era, it was “fake” there for it wasn’t cool


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Wow what a bunch of made up horse shit 🤭🤣
> 
> Theres no kayfabe so the muscle bound jocks look just as dorky as anyone else because at the end if the day they're all play fighting and EVERYONE knows it.
> 
> ...


dude what the fuck do i have to do with a fucking entertainer ? saying stupid defensive shit like this proves my point. Its not my job to be cool, im a regular person. Its not an entertainers job to act like a regular person. They are playing a part of something and its always a character that stands ou from your average joe. Its not horse shit and your points prove it exactly. That is just it a company turned itself into disneyland and the rest of the business followed and now there is many other forms of entertainment filling peoples voids. Non of that is my point, Its that it could be all of that again just like the endless high quality content to this day continuing to do it. Just like instagram is a perfect example of natural order of how humans are these crazy weird, wild,sexual,strange beings. This fake narrative on twitter that we're all some innocent boring creatures is just laughable. In fact society is much worse that it used to be. Anyways this has nothing to do with being edgy, just a small example. Besides i never said it will be like that ever again, just saying it can be. 

so put your defense to have to bring myself into this business aside. Its non of our jobs in here to be cool,we are not the fucking performers.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> dude what the fuck do i have to do with a fucking entertainer ? saying stupid defensive shit like this proves my point. Its not my job to be cool, im a regular person. Its not an entertainers job to act like a regular person. They are playing a part of something and its always a character that stands ou from your average joe. Its not horse shit and your points prove it exactly. That is just it a company turned itself into disneyland and the rest of the business followed and now there is many other forms of entertainment filling peoples voids. Non of that is my point, Its that it could be all of that again just like the endless high quality content to this day continuing to do it. Just like instagram is a perfect example of natural order of how humans are these crazy weird, wild,sexual,strange beings. This fake narrative on twitter that we're all some innocent boring creatures is just laughable. In fact society is much worse that it used to be. Anyways this has nothing to do with being edgy, just a small example. Besides i never said it will be like that ever again, just saying it can be.
> 
> so put your defense to have to bring myself into this business aside. Its non of our jobs in here to be cool,we are not the fucking performers.


You're response was both wierd and completely not addressing what I said .....not sure you understood my post lol.


----------



## Dizzie (Jun 22, 2019)

Ask yourself would any current aew fan stop watching the product if the group faded into obscurity? Highly doubtful but they do hurt the image of the product of being a serious competitor to wwe with these getting so much air time in favourable slots.

It's a real shame that they have something special in hangman that has fans booing bryan over him and could be the wrestler that aew can claim as a homegrown legit break out star but making him look like mid card act and weak with him having dark order backing him up.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yeah ....no
> 
> Wankster and a dipshit with a Jersey flattop dancing like idiots joined by *a fat sumo wearing a thong*.......totally screams we're getting into the party........ummmm sure. (I'd like to order some of those rose tinted glasses lmfao)


That was really disgusting and a channel changer for me just like Sonny Kiss ring gear, I would prefer Dark Order dissappears but I can deal with them, but come on Too Cool was over but it was another wrestling crap act.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

I think people look back on the Attitude era mostly in with rose tinted glasses. 

Should go back and watch some old raws or smackdowns and realize how cringe they actually are. 

There's a lot of bad comedy with bad comedy acts. Austin and Rock were great. Angle had amazing timing. But there are good portions of those shows filled with.. Brisco and Patterson in an evening gown match.. 

Anything the Dark Order or what Cassidy is doing now really doesn't besmirch "Pro Wrestling" as a concept. 

If it's not for you? That's fine. But again, these guys are moving merch atm so it can't be the worst thing in the world. 

... that Danielson has vowed to kick every Dark Order's head in leads me to believe that we're going to be seeing more of them too. Don't like em? Let him kick their head in... 

TBH, the match with Evil Uno last week was actually a solid match. Lots of bits of storytelling throughout the match too.


----------



## Irish Jet (Nov 15, 2011)

Razgriz said:


> I think people look back on the Attitude era mostly in with rose tinted glasses.
> 
> Should go back and watch some old raws or smackdowns and realize how cringe they actually are.
> 
> ...


It’s not just that the Dark Order exist, they’re associating with their world champion and are involved in almost all of his screen time.

Opening the show with them was just an absolute embarrassment.


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

It's just me... I just got into AEW maybe right when Punk arrived. I knew about Brodie Lee and his death. Kinda know that they did have a segment with a bunch of goons who came in and were really bad at throwing punches and things. 

But what I see on a week to week basis right now isn't very embarrassing. They're just a stable on AEW. I see a lot of nothing from them right now. They just exist. Two sides had some beef and they squashed it on Brodie Lee day. And that's about it.

Nothing since Punk arrived that I know of has actually made me physically uncomfortable.


----------



## The One (Jul 16, 2012)

Y’all need to stop talking shit about the Dark Order.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Cartoon Cornette was right. Cancel the Dark Order gauntlet immediately. Fans were more interested in Shida vs Nyla (which was very well executed) than the number one contender's match.

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461747101432492033*


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Irish Jet said:


> It’s not just that the Dark Order exist, they’re associating with their world champion and are involved in almost all of his screen time.
> 
> *Opening the show with them was just an absolute embarrassment.*


Yes they look bad but there was a reason, Bryan vows to take all of them down so it made sense.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

One of AEWs worst creative decisions was keeping them together after the passing of Huber.
Something tells me they are only together because of pity by TK. He would not know what to do with them.
Here’s a hint Tony. RELEASE THEM.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

shandcraig said:


> *dude what the fuck do i have to do with a fucking entertainer ? saying stupid defensive shit like this proves my point. Its not my job to be cool,* *im a regular person.*


you literally said 2 posts ago you and others want to make wrestling less nerdy (ergo cool)




shandcraig said:


> *thats just it, a lot of us are just trying to make wrestling become less nerdy again*


you have no power to do so / none of us do.

just like what you like and let other people like what they like - you guys can’t neg the industry to become ‘cool‘ again


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Mirror image, that's the thing with the DO, they keep giving AEW that stupid geek stench. Doesn't this bother AEW fans that this is what people think of them?


You’d have to be a pathetically weak person to be bothered by what other people think of them.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Cartoon Cornette was right. Cancel the Dark Order gauntlet immediately. Fans were more interested in Shida vs Nyla (which was very well executed) than the number one contender's match.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1461747101432492033*


Nah Shida was lucky to be in the same quarter as punk and MJF lmao nice try.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> you literally said 2 posts ago you and others want to make wrestling less nerdy (ergo cool)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



oh i was explaining that how we are all at home has nothing to do with a performer. Guy was talking about me being not cool or something and i was explaining that has nothing to do with it.Its not my job ect


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

JasmineAEW said:


> You’d have to be a pathetically weak person to be bothered by what other people think of them.


Agree remind me to that other thread of a guy that let their two cousins fans of UFC (I guess now you have to watch UFC in order to make other people think highly of you lol) boss around his house taking the remote control from his hand just because they laugh at him watching 20 seconds or Dark Order, that's pathetic.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Nah Shida was lucky to be in the same quarter as punk and MJF lmao nice try.


*Your reaching is beyond desperate. No one knew Punk would confront MJF and he was only on screen for two minutes before walking out the ring. Shida vs Nyla was advertised two weeks in advance. Stop it.*


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Gwi1890 said:


> from my personal experience once kayfabe died you got shit for being a wrestling fan even during the attitude era, it was “fake” there for it wasn’t cool





Razgriz said:


> *I think people look back on the Attitude era mostly in with rose tinted glasses.*
> 
> Should go back and watch some old raws or smackdowns and realize how cringe they actually are.
> 
> ...


What these folks said. This stuff. It's true. 

My cousin, a handsome guy and not at all nerdy, was the butt of (mostly good-natured) jokes during his university days because he was a huge wrestling fan. In the Attitude Era. It was actually easier for me to be vocal about wrestling at school because, in the post Attitude Era world, folks didn't automatically think of fake fighting between trashy stereotypes once pro wrestling wasn't as big a pop culture meme of entertainment for, er, dumb people. Now it's just an eccentric or nerd thing.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Your reaching is beyond desperate. No one knew Punk would confront MJF and he was only on screen for two minutes before walking out the ring. Shida vs Nyla was advertised two weeks in advance. Stop it.*


Yes because everyone is clamoring to see Nyla rose vs Shida for the umpteenth time.....just stop lmao


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Yes because everyone is clamoring to see Nyla rose vs Shida for the umpteenth time.....just stop lmao


*It's literally proven with quarterly ratings. This embarrassing for you.*


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

JasmineAEW said:


> You’d have to be a pathetically weak person to be bothered by what other people think of them.


Yea right. You have to have SOME self esteem! lol You don't want to be the clown of the village like the Dork Order. Can you imagine wanting to be them instead of Stone Cold. When they put you in the box you'll say to your children "yes I was a member of the Dork Order".


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

OP, I'm not surprised.



DammitChrist said:


> They're over as acts with the crowds, and they're capable of putting on solid tag matches.


This doesn't matter though, the live arena and a TV audience are going to like different things. For example, many fans to this day scream from the rooftops that at TNA Final Resolution 2005 Monty Brown should have beat Jeff Jarrett for the NWA World Heavyweight Title. You ask these people why and they say "HE WAS OVER WITH THE IMPACT ZONE"

And he was, but he wasn't the right choice as a main event TV talent. Same deal here, Dark Order might be liked by the AEW hardcores but they aren't going to be attractive to a majority TV audience.



Razgriz said:


> They're fine being background noise... Thinking back to the attitude era and even ruthless aggression... they had comedy acts to fill in even on major TV.
> 
> 
> For example like Too Cool, and Shane Helms etc..
> ...


Too Cool were serious when it came to wrestling though, the only bad comedy bit they did was Scotty's The Worm but even then that was a chop to the throat which probably would legitimately harm someone. Rikishi's stinkface was oversold at times but was a disrespectful diss.

As for Helms, only cringe thing about him was him using a chokeslam. He was just a wrestler who was a big comic book nerd so dressed as a super hero.



greasykid1 said:


> Well sure. Sounds like your cousins certainly paid attention to the product and made an informed decision after watching a full 20 seconds - which would have literally been one guy announcing Hangman to the ring, while a few others stood behind him.


When I studied media we were taught that with a commercial you have 10-15 seconds to hook someone on average. Often 20 seconds is all you have to hook someone which is why its so important to have good talents throughout the show.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> I was watching AEW with my 62 year old great grandpa


Hiding your age a little bit there, mate  



LifeInCattleClass said:


> you guys can’t neg the industry to become ‘cool‘ again


I'm doing my best here in Australia.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Chip Chipperson said:


> OP, I'm not surprised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dark Order is mostly serious as wrestlers too tbh.
Uno and Stu/ Silver and Reynolds are perfectly fine tag team.
Monty should've beat Jeff Jarret for the title too by the way.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Thomazbr said:


> Dark Order is mostly serious as wrestlers too tbh.
> Uno and Stu/ Silver and Reynolds are perfectly fine tag team.
> Monty should've beat Jeff Jarret for the title too by the way.


Dark Order look like shit, Too Cool looked like wrestlers.

Only people who think Monty should've beat Jarrett are those with very little professional wrestling business sense.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea right. You have to have SOME self esteem! lol You don't want to be the clown of the village like the Dork Order. Can you imagine wanting to be them instead of Stone Cold. When they put you in the box you'll say to your children "yes I was a member of the Dork Order".


The members of the Dark Order are over with the fanbase, are a part of the hottest pro wrestling company in the business, and are making a living doing what they love,


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dark Order look like shit, Too Cool looked like wrestlers.
> 
> Only people who think Monty should've beat Jarrett are those with very little professional wrestling business sense.


Oh is this about look or perceived wrestling style?
Because Uno and Stu are perfectly servicable tag team wrestlers and Too Cool are a million times goofier than those when they actually wrestled. I'm sorry but that's just the plain truth.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Dark Order is full of jobbers that would be released by themselves. It was done since day one and is now coasting because of Brodies death. Bucks put out a shit statement they would be a top team to save face for their friends but it was always trash and low brow indie guys. Everyone turned on them until the hype for who is the leader which made zero difference even with Brodie, all they did was BTE skits.

Sadly, all these guys are only receiving a pay check because somebody died.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

JasmineAEW said:


> The members of the Dark Order are over with the fanbase,


Don't you think that's a problem?



> are a part of the hottest pro wrestling company in the business


With 800 thousand viewers. Nothing to write home about.



> and are making a living doing what they love,


So are people doing kniting. 

It's niche bullshit. And AEW will continue to be niche if they continue to do that.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dark Order look like shit, Too Cool looked like wrestlers.
> 
> Only people who think Monty should've beat Jarrett are those with very little professional wrestling business sense.


Hey now wait a minute....!


----------



## Razgriz (Jan 14, 2016)

The Legit DMD said:


> *It's literally proven with quarterly ratings. This embarrassing for you.*


Correlation doesn't equal causation... not enough actual data here to prove either way this is the case


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Don't you think that's a problem?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you think being over with the fans is a problem, you’re definitely a mark, all right.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: The real dorks are the people who are wannabe bookers and ratings experts who worry about gaining “casual fans.” They don’t know how to actually enjoy wrestling.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

JasmineAEW said:


> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: The real dorks are the people who are wannabe bookers and ratings experts who worry about gaining “casual fans.” They don’t know how to actually enjoy wrestling.


Well you've heard it here first folks, Vince McMahon, Tony Khan, Impact, ROH, NJPW and any serious promoter is a wannabe booker that doesn't know how to enjoy wrestling.

Because JasmineAEW says so.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well you've heard it here first folks, Vince McMahon, Tony Khan, Impact, ROH, NJPW and any serious promoter is a wannabe booker that doesn't know how to enjoy wrestling.
> 
> Because JasmineAEW says so.


ROH certainly fucked up.


----------



## Honey Bucket (Jul 3, 2012)

What is the name of Chips wrestling company?


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

these guys are over as fuck


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Razgriz said:


> Correlation doesn't equal causation... not enough actual data here to prove either way this is the case


are these people seriously using numbers based off a group that is coming out with a guy that is one of the most over wrestlers in aew ? these people must watch cnn


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dark Order look like shit, Too Cool looked like wrestlers.
> 
> Only people who think Monty should've beat Jarrett are those with very little professional wrestling business sense.


Too cool looked like fucking idiots are you serious?

Scotty too hottie with bleached blonde flattop constantly danced and did the fucking worm.

Grandmaster sexay was a durag wearing wankster who danced and wore cheetah print gear and snowboarding goggles.

Rikishi a fat sumo wearing a thong and wipes his ass on peoples faces....


What tiny bit of credibility u had with me left is utterly gone now if you legitimately just said Too cool were serious when wrestling and looked like wrestlers....ARE YOU FUCKING MENTAL?

BTW You've done nothing to raise the bar in Australia bruh.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> are these people seriously using numbers based off a group that is coming out with a guy that is one of the most over wrestlers in aew ? these people must watch cnn


So what do you watch to come up with your BS notions?


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Thomazbr said:


> Oh is this about look or perceived wrestling style?
> Because Uno and Stu are perfectly servicable tag team wrestlers and Too Cool are a million times goofier than those when they actually wrestled. I'm sorry but that's just the plain truth.


Chip once again showing his obvious bias taking any sort of stance just to be contrary to AEW......old weak ass schtick.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Thomazbr said:


> ROH certainly fucked up.


Nah, went from a mid tier independent to a mostly nationally televised company. Appealing to casuals via Cornette's assistance actually saved the company.

My point is pretty much that every company worth its weight will be trying to get casuals in the door.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah, went from a mid tier independent to a mostly nationally televised company. Appealing to casuals via Cornette's assistance actually saved the company.
> 
> My point is pretty much that every company worth its weight will be trying to get casuals in the door.


Too shut down and releasing all their talent.....again STFU chip unless your going to talk out your mouth not your ass like ace Ventura bruh.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

JasmineAEW said:


> If you think being over with the fans is a problem, you’re definitely a mark, all right.
> 
> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: The real dorks are the people who are wannabe bookers and ratings experts who worry about gaining “casual fans.” They don’t know how to actually enjoy wrestling.


We enjoy good wrestling with good psychology not garbage crap like the Dork Order. it's circus silly shit. When are you guys gonna realise that? We have seen wrestling at his biggest heights and we would love wrestling to go back to that and that is sure not it. That's for the fringe of the fringe.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> We enjoy good wrestling with good psychology not garbage crap like the Dork Order. it's circus silly shit. When are you guys gonna realise that? We have seen wrestling at his biggest heights and we would love wrestling to go back to that and that is sure not it. That's for the fringe of the fringe.


Another TOO COOL fan?

@Chip Chipperson your ppl are here bruh lol

Rose tinted glasses much? There were comedy acts much worse then DARK order in the biggest era of wrestlings popularity.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Another TOO COOL fan?
> 
> @Chip Chipperson your ppl are here bruh lol
> 
> Rose tinted glasses much? There were comedy acts much worse then DARK order in the biggest era of wrestlings popularity.


I was not fan of Too Cool but they made sense in the context of the show. It wasn't a bunch of homeless nonsensical stuff that should be kept on Indy shows.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> I was not fan of Too Cool but they made sense in the context of the show. It wasn't a bunch of homeless nonsensical stuff that should be kept on Indy shows.


You're right it was worse. 

I'll take a goofy cult over dancing wanksters(complete with durag) and a fat guy in a thong (wiping his ass on peoples face)showing off his cottage cheese ass.

🤣🤣🤣


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Chip once again showing his obvious bias taking any sort of stance just to be contrary to AEW......old weak ass schtick.


Hes a sad gimmick poster at this point.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> You're right it was worse.
> 
> I'll take a goofy cult over dancing wanksters(complete with durag) and a fat guy in a thong (wiping his ass on peoples face)showing off his cottage cheese ass.
> 
> 🤣🤣🤣


Dude you will defend everything AEW does at this point. They would literally crap in the ring and you would praise it.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Brodus Clay said:


> Hes a sad gimmick poster at this point.


Says the guy who literally span the forum with one phrase. I have never seen you debate and have long discussions with anybody. You just whine with two words when someone says negative things about AEW. You are barely coherant.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Dude you will defend everything AEW does at this point. They would literally crap in the ring and you would praise it.


Nah actually I regularly call out the things I don't like and I find stupid about AEW but nice try .....

I'm not the one defending a fat man wearing a thong and wiping his ass on another man's face......let alone the God awful whiteboys and their horrible gimmicks.

But please expand on how the dark order is possibly more embarrassing then those fucking idiots lol.


----------



## Brodus Clay (Jan 6, 2012)

Wolf Mark said:


> Says the guy who literally span the forum with one phrase. I have never seen you debate and have long discussions with anybody. You just whine with *two words* when someone says negative things about AEW. You are barely coherant.


Only on the Bischoff threads.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Nah actually I regularly call out the things I don't like and I find stupid about AEW but nice try .....
> 
> I'm not the one defending a fat man wearing a thong and wiping his ass on another man's face......let alone the God awful whiteboys and their horrible gimmicks.
> 
> But please expand on how the dark order is possibly more embarrassing then those fucking idiots lol.


Too Cool actually wrestled matches, Rikishi was an actual talented guy who had angles with the Rock and so forth and you know that guy could kick ass. And say what you will but even though I like more realisitic stuff(and I liked WCW more than the WWF freak show) they were a new concept who got over with mainstream. Dark Order are basically like the Odities who are getting a little too much TV time. They are like the group that were following that wrestler that had someone dressed like a bunny. Some concept are just too fringe. And WWE made the mistakes of having this group on TV with the bunny and the Odities too.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Brodus Clay said:


> Only on the Bischoff threads.


Case in point.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Too Cool actually wrestled matches, Rikishi was an actual talented guy who had angles with the Rock and so forth and you know that guy could kick ass. And say what you will but even though I like more realisitic stuff(and I liked WCW more than the WWF freak show) they were a new concept who got over with mainstream. Dark Order are basically like the Odities who are getting a little too much TV time. They are like the group that were following that wrestler that had someone dressed like a bunny. Some concept are just too fringe. And WWE made the mistakes of having this group on TV with the bunny and the Odities too.


Dark order actually wrestle matches too and Brodie Lee was TNT champ and could go for sure......the oddities in AEW would be Luthor, Sunny kiss,joey janella etc.

I still think TOO COOL are way cringier then the Dark Order and it's not close.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Dark order actually wrestle matches too and Brodie Lee was TNT champ and could go for sure......the oddities in AEW would be Luthor, Sunny kiss,joey janella etc.
> 
> I still think TOO COOL are way cringier then the Dark Order and it's not close.


Brodie Lee is not there anymore. Dark Order are now a group of freaks just like the Odities and the guys that would join Adam Rose with the bunny and so forth. As long as they continue being in AEW they would add to the indy geek freak aspect of AEW, a stench that is hard to clean off. Too much comedy and trash looking people. Even Page winning the belt was tainted by them being there.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> Brodie Lee is not there anymore. Dark Order are now a group of freaks just like the Odities and the guys that would join Adam Rose with the bunny and so forth. As long as they continue being in AEW they would add to the indy geek freak aspect of AEW, a stench that is hard to clean off. Too much comedy and trash looking people. Even Page winning the belt was tainted by them being there.


Quarterly ratings say differently and so does the crowd reactions...

Once the DO start dropping ratings then we'll talk but they dont and the crowd love them....

Like I said I'll take Dark Order over too cool anyday. People went fucking nuts for Page and it's being praised by tons of people and media outlets. Page was getting chanted over Bryan Danielson lmao but sure stench yadda yadda yadda.....


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Quarterly ratings say differently and so does the crowd reactions...
> 
> Once the DO start dropping ratings then we'll talk but they dont and the crowd love them....


The same small base of fans. That is the problem. Always niche. 



> Like I said I'll take Dark Order over too cool anyday. People went fucking nuts for Page and it's being praised by tons of people and media outlets. Page was getting chanted over Bryan Danielson lmao but sure stench yadda yadda yadda.....


Yea people were cheering for Page. And...? It doesn't mean it would not have been better without those bozos there. A hero's journey should be him fighting his own wars and doing things by himself.


----------



## MrTony1920 (Nov 17, 2021)

I would like to see Bray Wyatt come to AEW and be the new boss of Dark Order and make then a heel group.


----------



## SAMCRO (Jul 10, 2006)

greasykid1 said:


> Well sure. Sounds like your cousins certainly paid attention to the product and made an informed decision after watching a full 20 seconds - which would have literally been one guy announcing Hangman to the ring, while a few others stood behind him.
> 
> Honestly, the Dark Order just look like a normal group of wrestlers. Why are people hung up on them "looking" bad?
> I seriously don't know what you're referring to. They are just normal looking wrestlers, in the normal kinds of ring gear.
> ...


Seeing the Dork Order for 20 seconds is all anyone would need to see of them before being inclined to turn the channel bro. Its not like if they watched AEW from inception like they would grow to be fans of Dork Order once they knew their full story, just the visual image of those clowns would turn any person with any decent taste in good tv away.

Lol normal group of wrestlers? seriously? you got Uno a big dumpy fat guy in a leather outfit with a mask with a big goofy smile with teeth on it, one guy in a pair of skin tight white jeans and wearing a weird joker esque mask whos called 10, you got a dwarf, you got everyone else who just looks like no nothing indy bums who have no distinct look at all and just look like an ocean of indy jobbers.

If his cousins just saw Hangman Page by himself come out with a beer in hand and do his usual schtick they'd have likely watched the full segment, cause they'd see a real looking cool relatable guy with the world title on his shoulder and be interested in hearing what he's got to say and what he does. But seeing a fucking clown show of freaks crowded in the ring presenting him, yeah thats gonna turn alot of casuals away.

When people turned on WWF and first saw it and saw someone like The Rock, or Austin, or Undertaker they'd be intrigued to see more of those guys. When you turn it on AEW and see a group of misfit goofy losers in goofy masks that look like local jobbers who the fuck would stick around and watch?


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Wolf Mark said:


> We enjoy good wrestling with good psychology not garbage crap like the Dork Order. it's circus silly shit. When are you guys gonna realise that? We have seen wrestling at his biggest heights and we would love wrestling to go back to that and that is sure not it. That's for the fringe of the fringe.


Are you talking about the WWE boom periods or are you referencing some of the Japanese promotions or maybe the likes of NWA? I ask because if your good wrestling that doesn't include "circus silly shit" is WWE, then you're being as biased as any AEW diehard.

The Attitude Era had as much, if not more, comedy and silliness as current WWE and AEW do. @$Dolladrew$ said it perfectly; this is all about looking back with rose tinted glasses. AE comedy was geared toward the tastes of many young men in that time period. Tastes change. Another difference is that WWE, and to a lesser extent AEW, are making an effort to attract a wider demographic now, in part because pro wrestling has to compete with too many other forms of entertainment guys love, like gaming, to be able to focus only on them.*

* yes, women (all genders if I need to be clear about that) watched AE WWE but wrestling was still more of a guy thing, just like it is now. Some women love guy things, most don't.

If someone is about to suggest NJPW as an example of silly shit free wrestling, don't bother. Let's just say a crossover with Best Friends doesn't surprise me at all and leave it at that. (Not an insult to them; I love NJPW, btw and am one of the marks waiting for an Okada appearance in AEW.)


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

MrTony1920 said:


> I would like to see Bray Wyatt come to AEW and be the new boss of Dark Order and make then a heel group.


I'm not sure it would work as a heel group to be honest. Firstly because none of them other than Preston Vance and Stu Grayson could pull it off as a heel, and also because people would want to root for him because of Brodie Lee.


----------



## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

the oddities comparison to the dork order is ridiculous. First off they were never involved in any major angle or affiliation with top stars. Also the group only lasted for maybe a year before it was split up. Dork order has been here for 2 years with no end in sight for the lamest group in wrestling history


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Wolf Mark said:


> We enjoy good wrestling with good psychology not garbage crap like the Dork Order. it's circus silly shit. When are you guys gonna realise that? We have seen wrestling at his biggest heights and we would love wrestling to go back to that and that is sure not it. That's for the fringe of the fringe.


I probably have been a wrestling fan a lot longer than you have, and have enjoyed all types of wrestling. And I’m also intelligent and mature enough to grasp the concept that you don’t always get what you want. Maybe AEW simply isn’t for you and you should go find where wrestling elsewhere.


----------



## JasmineAEW (Oct 19, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Well you've heard it here first folks, Vince McMahon, Tony Khan, Impact, ROH, NJPW and any serious promoter is a wannabe booker that doesn't know how to enjoy wrestling.
> 
> Because JasmineAEW says so.


Are you THAT stupid? Of course actual wrestling promoters and companies are going to care about rating and booking and putting out a product that people enjoy. It’s their business and livelihood.

But people in this forum, you and I included, are simply fans. We are not industry insiders with skin in the game. You’re just fooling yourself if you actually think you’re anything more than that. It borders on delusional.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

JasmineAEW said:


> But people in this forum, you and I included, are simply fans. We are not industry insiders with skin in the game. You’re just fooling yourself if you actually think you’re anything more than that. It borders on delusional.


I'm in the business and so are others on here. You bring up a solid point that the majority are not in the business and aren't "inside" but those people are still allowed to care about the business workings and insider stuff especially when WWE has legitimately made documentaries about the business side of wrestling.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

I feel like situations like the proposed situation friends and family tend to go off the vibes of their loved ones. When I convince the homies to watch wrestling with me, they enjoy it because I'm enjoying it and telling em why I like X, Y, and Z. Conversely I've got into plenty of anime just off the strength of being at a friend's house and them being excited for me to see certain fights and shit.


----------



## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Even if Dork Order and OC left the company, AEW would still have jobbers go on 20 minutes on national TV vs CM Punk and Bryan.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

JasmineAEW said:


> I probably have been a wrestling fan a lot longer than you have, and have enjoyed all types of wrestling. And I’m also intelligent and mature enough to grasp the concept that you don’t always get what you want. Maybe AEW simply isn’t for you and you should go find where wrestling elsewhere.


We are talking about the Dork Order not anything else. 


GothicBohemian said:


> Are you talking about the WWE boom periods or are you referencing some of the Japanese promotions or maybe the likes of NWA? I ask because if your good wrestling that doesn't include "circus silly shit" is WWE, then you're being as biased as any AEW diehard.
> 
> The Attitude Era had as much, if not more, comedy and silliness as current WWE and AEW do. @$Dolladrew$ said it perfectly; this is all about looking back with rose tinted glasses. AE comedy was geared toward the tastes of many young men in that time period.


Yea towards men with more testosterone which I was a part of. lol Back then it was frat boys comedy, now it's homeless geek comedy. 



> Tastes change.


Do They?



> Another difference is that WWE, and to a lesser extent AEW, are making an effort to attract a wider demographic now,


Yet there's never been less people that watch wrestling in history! Maybe they should focus on the base first! lol



> in part because pro wrestling has to compete with too many other forms of entertainment guys love, like gaming, to be able to focus only on them.*


If you want to compete with videogames, with MMA, with Game of Thrones, with Vikings, that's not how you do it. The Attitude Era was much closer to the agrressive nature of all that entertaiment. Dork Order sure isn't it.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Joe Gill said:


> the oddities comparison to the dork order is ridiculous. First off they were never involved in any major angle or affiliation with top stars. Also the group only lasted for maybe a year before it was split up. Dork order has been here for 2 years with no end in sight for the lamest group in wrestling history


I brought the Oddities in this cause I said the DO are like if the WWF had used the Oddities in a main event spot.


----------



## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Chan Hung said:


> Even if Dork Order and OC left the company, AEW would still have jobbers go on 20 minutes on national TV vs CM Punk and Bryan.


Sweet! We get 20 minute matches from both Danielson and Punk! If this is every week then you have yourself a deal impossible to refuse.

AEW has some awesome jobbers. Where are we drawing the jobber line at on the roster? Whether they comprise anywhere from 30%-50% of AEW’s D-E-E-P talent pool that could and would allow those Punk and Danielson matches to be some of AEW’s best and many being MOTYC whichever year they are held in. Punk and Danielson could make the career of many young guns with something to prove.

AEW jobbers were main eventers before TK called their numbers. Besmirching jobbers in AEW is the definition of cringe, IMO.


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Wolf Mark said:


> Yea towards men with more testosterone which I was a part of. lol Back then it was frat boys comedy, now it's homeless geek comedy.


The old frat boy stereotype isn't what it used to be. Studies show drinking is down among students, while gaming and other 'geek' activities have increased. There's a culture shift underway and today's wrestling humour is a reflection of that. 

I've seen Attitude Era stuff. To me, a lot of it seems very dated, trailer trashy and sexist. I can enjoy that kind of thing on some level - let's just say I can watch Trailer Park Boys and laugh thinking. _Yeah, that's exactly how it is_ - but that's not the sort of wrestling show I'd be into. Of course, I'm not a man, let alone fueled by extra-fratboymanly super testosterone.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

GothicBohemian said:


> The old frat boy stereotype isn't what it used to be. Studies show drinking is down among students, while gaming and other 'geek' activities have increased. There's a culture shift underway and today's wrestling humour is a reflection of that.


That is true, young men these days have less testosterone. Very Beta. They drink less, they fight less. There's even studies showing that men now overall have less testosterone than they had in the 80s. But hey it doesn't mean we have to give up on it. lol I would think a majority of wrestling fans still like a more badass product than goofy stuff.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

GothicBohemian said:


> The old frat boy stereotype isn't what it used to be. Studies show drinking is down among students, while gaming and other 'geek' activities have increased. There's a culture shift underway and today's wrestling humour is a reflection of that.
> 
> I've seen Attitude Era stuff. To me, a lot of it seems very dated, trailer trashy and sexist. I can enjoy that kind of thing on some level - let's just say I can watch Trailer Park Boys and laugh thinking. _Yeah, that's exactly how it is_ - but that's not the sort of wrestling show I'd be into. Of course, I'm not a man, let alone fueled by extra-fratboymanly super testosterone.


Look at statistics of what shows and movies still sell. It's all typical stereo type stuff. No fake narrative movements no nerd fest. Just because drinking is down in real life it doesn't reflect what sells. Like the few idiots saying the joker movie is wrong. Almost 1.5 billion in reviews from happy customers says hello. You can claim all you want about attitude being dated but in reality that type of thing is worse than ever right now in society. There is this fake media narrative being pushed around and that's all it is. Go to Instagram if you want to see exactly what reality is. People are more crazy, weird, wild,fucked up, sexual than ever before. That being said we don't need to apply that to wrestling. Just saying that people defending this have no grasp on what sells. No one cares if alcoholic Consumption is down. So is smoking but it doesn't stop people from enjoying seeing a compelling characters in a movie smoke.

Plenty of more nerds sitting at home and you wanna claim these types wanna watch watch people like them, Simply not true. Same nonsense is being said that women are not portrayed as sex objects when in reality it's being pushed by themselves more than ever.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Wolf Mark said:


> That is true, young men these days have less testosterone. Very Beta.


Woke up to a video the other day of an old mate of mine (Not friends anymore cause of wrestling drama) dancing and singing to Chek Yes Juliet on Tik Tok and doing finger down challenges.

Makes you wonder what the men in 1991 were doing.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Woke up to a video the other day of an old mate of mine (Not friends anymore cause of wrestling drama) dancing and singing to Chek Yes Juliet on Tik Tok and doing finger down challenges.
> 
> Makes you wonder what the men in 1991 were doing.



Testosterone is legit statically on the decline in men because of environment and so many chemicals. Now that being said nothing is wrong with having fun and doing feminism aspects but there is real biological aspects that Testosterone does to the body and mind. Hence all sorts of the behaviors that are bad and good.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Yes, and this is actually a real story by the way:

I showed my friends The Rock and they were cackling of how fake he was. Couldn't convince anyone to even try wrestling afterwards. 

Had more success with Lucha Underground weird fantasy vibe.


shandcraig said:


> Look at statistics of what shows and movies still sell. It's all typical stereo type stuff. No fake narrative movements no nerd fest. Just because drinking is down in real life it doesn't reflect what sells. Like the few idiots saying the joker movie is wrong. Almost 1.5 billion in reviews from happy customers says hello. You can claim all you want about attitude being dated but in reality that type of thing is worse than ever right now in society. There is this fake media narrative being pushed around and that's all it is. Go to Instagram if you want to see exactly what reality is. People are more crazy, weird, wild,fucked up, sexual than ever before. That being said we don't need to apply that to wrestling. Just saying that people defending this have no grasp on what sells. No one cares if alcoholic Consumption is down. So is smoking but it doesn't stop people from enjoying seeing a compelling characters in a movie smoke.
> 
> Plenty of more nerds sitting at home and you wanna claim these types wanna watch watch people like them, Simply not true. Same nonsense is being said that women are not portrayed as sex objects when in reality it's being pushed by themselves more than ever.


I disagree.
You don't see someone like Arnold or Stallone in big roles nowadays. That is not to say that muscles aren't important as it's evident with all the marvel shirtless census, but on the other hand were talking about marvel and super heroes movies which definitively point towards a shift in the perception of shut that is considered geeky. As in everyone now knows the name of Iron Man and Captain America.
The only classical traditional big over the top masculine franchise is the fast and furious and James bond which fair enough sells like hotcakes, but we're not exactly getting Rocky IV these days.

I mean really the best selling box office is basically made out of comic, Kaiju and videogame adaptations.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Thomazbr said:


> Yes, and this is actually a real story by the way:
> 
> I showed my friends The Rock and they were cackling of how fake he was. Couldn't convince anyone to even try wrestling afterwards.
> 
> ...



Lol you're delusional. Many actors are jacked,rock says hi. Anyways this isn't about muscle really. Also look how women have turned as always a male dominated business that grew in pouluaorty and used it against use to make money in almost mostly sexual way.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Woke up to a video the other day of an old mate of mine (Not friends anymore cause of wrestling drama) dancing and singing to Chek Yes Juliet on Tik Tok and doing finger down challenges.
> 
> Makes you wonder what the men in 1991 were doing.





shandcraig said:


> Testosterone is legit statically on the decline in men because of environment and so many chemicals. Now that being said nothing is wrong with having fun and doing feminism aspects but there is real biological aspects that Testosterone does to the body and mind. Hence all sorts of the behaviors that are bad and good.


There is definitely something in the waters. lol


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

shandcraig said:


> Lol you're delusional. Many actors are jacked,rock says hi. Anyways this isn't about muscle really. Also look how women have turned as always a male dominated business that grew in pouluaorty and used it against use to make money in almost mostly sexual way.


Many actors are also manlets.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

shandcraig said:


> Look at statistics of what shows and movies still sell. It's all typical stereo type stuff. No fake narrative movements no nerd fest. Just because drinking is down in real life it doesn't reflect what sells. Like the few idiots saying the joker movie is wrong. Almost 1.5 billion in reviews from happy customers says hello. You can claim all you want about attitude being dated but in reality that type of thing is worse than ever right now in society. There is this fake media narrative being pushed around and that's all it is. Go to Instagram if you want to see exactly what reality is. People are more crazy, weird, wild,fucked up, sexual than ever before. That being said we don't need to apply that to wrestling. Just saying that people defending this have no grasp on what sells. No one cares if alcoholic Consumption is down. So is smoking but it doesn't stop people from enjoying seeing a compelling characters in a movie smoke.
> 
> Plenty of more nerds sitting at home and you wanna claim these types wanna watch watch people like them, Simply not true. Same nonsense is being said that women are not portrayed as sex objects when in reality it's being pushed by themselves more than ever.


No Geek want to be seen as a geek or root for geeks. I think most males wants to root for badasses no matter what. They consume badass testosterone stuff for the most part. If only to prove to themselves that they are that person deep down. The best movie about this is Straw Dogs with Dustin Hoffman. A disrespected geek who has gone soft as a married man and then when he is pushed too far, the man appears and it's amazing and scary. 

Right now culture essentialy tells you everything is forbidden(cannot say this or that, men cannot look at women "male gaze" and all that shit) but people have never been more fucked up.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

DammitChrist said:


> Jeez, I'll never get the extreme hate that Dark Order gets on here (or even Orange Cassidy too).
> 
> They're over as acts with the crowds, and they're capable of putting on solid tag matches.
> 
> Plus, the fact that they have Anna Jay associated with them is a huge bonus.


Because they're not doing what was being done in the 70s and 80s. OC is the shit.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

greasykid1 said:


> Well sure. Sounds like your cousins certainly paid attention to the product and made an informed decision after watching a full 20 seconds - which would have literally been one guy announcing Hangman to the ring, while a few others stood behind him.
> 
> Honestly, the Dark Order just look like a normal group of wrestlers. Why are people hung up on them "looking" bad?
> I seriously don't know what you're referring to. They are just normal looking wrestlers, in the normal kinds of ring gear.
> ...


They shit on everything related to aew. Every. Damn. Week.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

the_flock said:


> The Dork Order had never been over, they're arguably the worst stable of all time


Not even close.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

cai1981 said:


> What the OP experienced is EXACTLY what fans other than the hardcore Indy fanbase and the delusionals that are just hoping so bad for them to eclipse WWE see when watching AEW!!!
> 
> They are ran and presented like an Indy promotion. 90% of their roster are geeks and has beens. There is nothing about the product that will attract an audience beyond the faithful and loud FEW.


If you hate it so much why do you keep watching?


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> We enjoy what we are or what we want to be. So those who enjoy the Dork Order well, yea.
> 
> Mirror image, that's the thing with the DO, they keep giving AEW that stupid geek stench. Doesn't this bother AEW fans that this is what people think of them?


Idgaf about what people think of me. They don't matter.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

Leviticus said:


> Well us fans of actual pro wrestling, who respect it as an artform, dont care for comedy acts whose entire gimmick involves mocking wrestling and calling it fake. If youve ever sold for an invisible hand grenade, wrestled yourself or a sex doll, or worked a match with a child, you do not have the right to be called a pro wrestler. I have no love for hardcore and ultraviolent wrestling, but I can respect it mor than this phoney BS. Chikara went out of business for a reason


Blah blah blah. You're just yapping at this point. If you take pro wrestling that serious then the problem ain't the wrestlers. The problem is you.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

shandcraig said:


> thats just it, a lot of us are just trying to make wrestling become less nerdy again.It was not always presented like this and it was looked at with a different view from the world before. We love the business so of course we here lol but like good movies and shows we want that aspect back for wrestling. Its entirely fair and its part of why millions have left the business as fans over the years.


Wrestling has ALWAYS been presented like this.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

Honey Bucket said:


> What is the name of Chips wrestling company?


Something non existent.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> We are talking about the Dork Order not anything else.
> 
> 
> Yea towards men with more testosterone which I was a part of. lol Back then it was frat boys comedy, now it's homeless geek comedy.
> ...


Attitude era wasn't aggressive considering you had an old bitch giving birth to a hand and a dude named sexual chocolate dealing with a transvestite. If you can talk about dark order you can talk about that silly wwe bullshit. You "WWE fans" and "anti-aew fans" have selective memory.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> Not even close.


You're only being salty because the hand that Mae Young gave birth to was more over than the Dork Order.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Dark Order look like shit, Too Cool looked like wrestlers.
> 
> Only people who think Monty should've beat Jarrett are those with very little professional wrestling business sense.


wtf, why would it not make professional business sense to but the belt on Monty?


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

the_flock said:


> You're only being salty because the hand that Mae Young gave birth to was more over than the Dork Order.



but but but they get pops when they come out with hangman. That so counts dont it


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

shandcraig said:


> but but but they get pops when they come out with hangman. That so counts dont it


The Dark Order still get pops without having Adam Page around though.


----------



## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

If these guys could actually work, most matches werent them doing move after move while everyone else stands around obviously waiting to catch them, i wouldnt have an issue.


----------



## Nickademus_Eternal (Feb 24, 2014)

the_flock said:


> You're only being salty because the hand that Mae Young gave birth to was more over than the Dork Order.


If that's what you think then homie.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Gwi1890 said:


> wtf, why would it not make professional business sense to but the belt on Monty?


Because he was only massively over to the 900 people that filled the Impact Zone every fortnight. TNA was booking for a national audience.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I'm in the business and so are others on here. You bring up a solid point that the majority are not in the business and aren't "inside" but those people are still allowed to care about the business workings and insider stuff especially when WWE has legitimately made documentaries about the business side of wrestling.


You're not in the business you're a Carney with a regional promotion my guy......you're an armchair quarterback coaching peewee football......just stop


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> You're not in the business you're a Carney with a regional promotion my guy......you're an armchair quarterback coaching peewee football......just stop


A Regional promotion isn't something you belittle someone about. It's a great achievement.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Because he was only massively over to the 900 people that filled the Impact Zone every fortnight. TNA was booking for a national audience.


lol! Monty Brown was a ex NFL linebacker, JJ was midcarder from WCW and WWE who nobody particularly cared for his TNA run was as bad as HHH reign of terror, TNA was on the rise they had a tv deal in the uk on ITV people were taking notice and were enjoying fresh new stars, nobody want The same old shit


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Gwi1890 said:


> lol! Monty Brown was a ex NFL linebacker, JJ was midcarder from WCW and WWE who nobody particularly cared for his TNA run was as bad as HHH reign of terror, TNA was on the rise they had a tv deal in the uk on ITV people were taking notice and were enjoying fresh new stars, nobody want The same old shit


Jarrett was also a nationally known name who had a main event run in WCW and had been on national TV for over a decade by the time he took on Monty Brown.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Jarrett was also a nationally known name who had a main event run in WCW and had been on national TV for over a decade by the time he took on Monty Brown.


regardless you are missing the point! TNA got popular because of their ability to build new stars, bringing in nationally recognised talent is what killed it !


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Gwi1890 said:


> regardless you are missing the point! TNA got popular because of their ability to build new stars, bringing in nationally recognised talent is what killed it !


It's also what built it.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

Chip Chipperson said:


> It's also what built it.


no


----------



## greasykid1 (Dec 22, 2015)

SAMCRO said:


> Seeing the Dork Order for 20 seconds is all anyone would need to see of them before being inclined to turn the channel bro. Its not like if they watched AEW from inception like they would grow to be fans of Dork Order once they knew their full story, just the visual image of those clowns would turn any person with any decent taste in good tv away.
> 
> Lol normal group of wrestlers? seriously? you got Uno a big dumpy fat guy in a leather outfit with a mask with a big goofy smile with teeth on it, one guy in a pair of skin tight white jeans and wearing a weird joker esque mask whos called 10, you got a dwarf, you got everyone else who just looks like no nothing indy bums who have no distinct look at all and just look like an ocean of indy jobbers.
> 
> ...


If you're happy with people seeing 20 seconds of a product, passing immediate judgement on the whole company based on the handful of people they see in that 20 seconds, and then mocking it based on zero knowledge or any time actually spent watching, that's fine. I guess it's OK when it serves your own weirdly strong anti-AEW opinions.

But the fact is, if someone make the exact same post about their friends seeing the opening of RAW, seeing Riddle's goofy stoned face and bare feet, immediately saying "Nah" and then telling everyone that all of WWE is dogshit, I think you'd have a way different opinion on this.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> You're not in the business you're a Carney with a regional promotion my guy......you're an armchair quarterback coaching peewee football......just stop


Why do you feel the need to belittle someone and personally attack them? "You only run one restaurant, why are you not McDonald's?"

Well, I dunno about you, but I hate chain restaurants that serve their cookie cutter cardboard. The attention a local restaurant gets from its owner is very underrated. Unless you want everything to be public company PC all the time. How boring.


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Two Sheds said:


> Why do you feel the need to belittle someone and personally attack them? "You only run one restaurant, why are you not McDonald's?"
> 
> Well, I dunno about you, but I hate chain restaurants that serve their cookie cutter cardboard. The attention a local restaurant gets from its owner is very underrated. Unless you want everything to be public company PC all the time. How boring.


Why do people have a irrational hatred for indy wrestling here?
The first thing people do when they talk about anything bad about any of the wrestlers is that they are indie tier mudlaw garbage. Face it, there's an appeal to popularity present on these boards. If we're talking food analogies, to people in this board shit is only good if it is a multi millionaire chain restaurant with joints all over the world.

I'll give Chipp something because he being a indie booker has the pass, but whats the last time people here watched a genuine indie show? Do people here even watch the bigger indie like the occasional Bloodsport or just GCW as a whole?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Thomazbr said:


> Why do people have a irrational hatred for indy wrestling here?
> The first thing people do when they talk about anything bad about any of the wrestlers is that they are indie tier mudlaw garbage. Face it, there's an appeal to popularity present on these boards. If we're talking food analogies, to people in this board shit is only good if it is a multi millionaire chain restaurant with joints all over the world.
> 
> I'll give Chipp something because he being a indie booker has the pass, but whats the last time people here watched a genuine indie show? Do people here even watch the bigger indie like the occasional Bloodsport or just GCW as a whole?


I just hate dumb. There are plenty of indy shows I have liked, but the trend over the past 15 years or so is to do more and more goofy stuff just to get a few people talking. The guys who put on shows that feature invisible men, imaginary hand grenades, and guys playing pocket pool give indy shows a bad name. The problem is that that is very common in most indy shows now.

I liked the bingo hall, cheap feel of ECW, so I do not need the corporate, polished feel for it to be a good show. I just hate that most indy feds feel the need to do dumb things to get any buzz.

I would never watch Garbage Can Wrestling though. That mess is just untrained dudes hurting themselves.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Gwi1890 said:


> no


Bro what rock you living under. You know how many endless interviews where people said they became tna fans because of Sting or Hogan or whoever else. People always making shit up instead of seeing,hearing and knowing the facts from real people that present it to us.

Clearly you were either not a tna fan or a casual that didn't follow its journey and all the ins and outs of it from the start like others have.

of course it gained tractions as some new promotion that was around after wcw died but it didnt attract a lot of people for a while. They lowly gained some fans but even by then they had hired people like kurt angle. That being said the times have changed and there is no wrestling power anymore so now i think aew need to focus on people that are over. Entirely different situation as it was build from the ground up with a top of the line production


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Two Sheds said:


> I just hate dumb. There are plenty of indy shows I have liked, but the trend over the past 15 years or so is to do more and more goofy stuff just to get a few people talking. The guys who put on shows that feature invisible men, imaginary hand grenades, and guys playing pocket pool give indy shows a bad name. The problem is that that is very common in most indy shows now.
> 
> I liked the bingo hall, cheap feel of ECW, so I do not need the corporate, polished feel for it to be a good show. I just hate that most indy feds feel the need to do dumb things to get any buzz.
> 
> I would never watch Garbage Can Wrestling though. That mess is just untrained dudes hurting themselves.


As opposed to Sandman and Balls Mahoney?


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Thomazbr said:


> As opposed to Sandman and Balls Mahoney?


You mean guys who looked like they could actually kick someone's ass?


----------



## Thomazbr (Apr 26, 2009)

Two Sheds said:


> You mean guys who looked like they could actually kick someone's ass?


If you ask me about dudes who look like untrained dudes hurting themselves I'll definitively point some ECW dudes my g.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> Bro what rock you living under. You know how many endless interviews where people said they became tna fans because of Sting or Hogan or whoever else. People always making shit up instead of seeing,hearing and knowing the facts from real people that present it to us.
> 
> Clearly you were either not a tna fan or a casual that didn't follow its journey and all the ins and outs of it from the start like others have.
> 
> of course it gained tractions as some new promotion that was around after wcw died but it didnt attract a lot of people for a while. They lowly gained some fans but even by then they had hired people like kurt angle. That being said the times have changed and there is no wrestling power anymore so now i think aew need to focus on people that are over. Entirely different situation as it was build from the ground up with a top of the line production


 what made Tna unique? The X division it was something we never seen before, plenty will tell you that matches between Daniels , AJ and Joe made them fans, yes it was cool seeing Christian Cage as a ME talent and Angle arrival, but when they rehashed the The wolfpac as the band ffs it pissed plenty off then Hogan came in and killed it and not in a good way.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Thomazbr said:


> Why do people have a irrational hatred for indy wrestling here?
> The first thing people do when they talk about anything bad about any of the wrestlers is that they are indie tier mudlaw garbage. Face it, there's an appeal to popularity present on these boards. If we're talking food analogies, to people in this board shit is only good if it is a multi millionaire chain restaurant with joints all over the world.
> 
> I'll give Chipp something because he being a indie booker has the pass, but whats the last time people here watched a genuine indie show? Do people here even watch the bigger indie like the occasional Bloodsport or just GCW as a whole?



Of course that is factual for promotions in North American but you or I or no one else have a clue what his business is like in auzz. That being said it doesn't somehow make him a better booker than Tony or whatever else claim because we don't have facts. I'm neither backing him or hatu


Gwi1890 said:


> what made Tna unique? The X division it was something we never seen before, plenty will tell you that matches between Daniels , AJ and Joe made them fans, yes it was cool seeing Christian Cage as a ME talent and Angle arrival, but when they rehashed the The wolfpac as the band ffs it pissed plenty off then Hogan came in and killed it and not in a good way.


I was a dyr hard fan, x division was nothing that we haven't seen before. Of focused it was great but that is not what somehow magical grew that promotion. Another delusional that doesn't habe a clue what they are talking about. If you actually knew the facts you would know Hogan had absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact TNA has an amazing vision following the end of the big talent days in tna. 2015 non of these people were around and tna was still doing it'd thing. Fools that hear nonsense online about someone and believe it. Same shit has happened with politics the past 2 years.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Thomazbr said:


> If you ask me about dudes who look like untrained dudes hurting themselves I'll definitively point some ECW dudes my g.


I agree though there are plenty of examples of that in ECW.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

They're tolerable as a jobber act but they get way too much meaningful TV time. Have them on Dark, if they're on TV it should be as a jobber with no entrance.


----------



## Gwi1890 (Nov 7, 2019)

shandcraig said:


> Of course that is factual for promotions in North American but you or I or no one else have a clue what his business is like in auzz. That being said it doesn't somehow make him a better booker than Tony or whatever else claim because we don't have facts. I'm neither backing him or hatu
> 
> I was a dyr hard fan, x division was nothing that we haven't seen before. Of focused it was great but that is not what somehow magical grew that promotion. Another delusional that doesn't habe a clue what they are talking about. If you actually knew the facts you would know Hogan had absolutely nothing to do with it. In fact TNA has an amazing vision following the end of the big talent days in tna. 2015 non of these people were around and tna was still doing it'd thing. Fools that hear nonsense online about someone and believe it. Same shit has happened with politics the past 2 years.


no I watched TNA religiously no need to fucking insult


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

the_flock said:


> A Regional promotion isn't something you belittle someone about. It's a great achievement.


Not in his case where he constantly talks like hes some fucking promoter that matters......he doesn't.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> Why do you feel the need to belittle someone and personally attack them? "You only run one restaurant, why are you not McDonald's?"
> 
> Well, I dunno about you, but I hate chain restaurants that serve their cookie cutter cardboard. The attention a local restaurant gets from its owner is very underrated. Unless you want everything to be public company PC all the time. How boring.


Only Chip gets the special attention I don't lash out at just every person here. I think brad boyd's caught some random beef with me once when I came on here drunk once but that's it.

Generally I'd rather make people laugh then cry but with chip I'm consistent lol.

Hes so fucking entitled its hilarious to me


----------



## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

shandcraig said:


> Look at statistics of what shows and movies still sell. It's all typical stereo type stuff. No fake narrative movements no nerd fest. Just because drinking is down in real life it doesn't reflect what sells. Like the few idiots saying the joker movie is wrong. Almost 1.5 billion in reviews from happy customers says hello.


Are you telling me that superhero/supervillain movies are not nerdy, 'cause if so, well, I have some sad news for you.



shandcraig said:


> You can claim all you want about attitude being dated ...


The people who were in the prime demographic during the AE years are on the less desirable edge of the most sought-after demo now. Entertainment isn't going to be geared to that age group in 2021. Getting old sucks, as it always has.



shandcraig said:


> ... but in reality that type of thing is worse than ever right now in society. There is this fake media narrative being pushed around and that's all it is. Go to Instagram if you want to see exactly what reality is. People are more crazy, weird, wild,fucked up, sexual than ever before. That being said we don't need to apply that to wrestling.


No they aren't. People were always like this, but now social media gives everyone a platform to share with the world what used to be exchanged among friends and via underground means. Or in nightlife/party scenes - the world didn't have a window into everyone's private life before, that's all.



shandcraig said:


> Just saying that people defending this have no grasp on what sells.No one cares if alcoholic Consumption is down. So is smoking but it doesn't stop people from enjoying seeing a compelling characters in a movie smoke.


Actually, I could haul up countless social media posts showing the opposite, that people don't relate to characters smoking unless it's an exaggerated part of an already larger-than-life persona, but what would that accomplish? Drinking and smoking do not make a character 'cool' today. The days when that sort of rebellion was admired, and when it was considered rebellious, are long gone. Modern kids are pretty reliable, and a lot look down on people who are drunk fuck ups wrecking their lungs smoking and not planning long-term. Like I said, a culture shift.

The younger they are, the more folks are aware of gender issues, racism (overt and subtle) and other subjects that used to be easier to make jokes about. You can still joke about that stuff, but it has to be done from a position of power, not privilege (more on that in a bit) or else a lot of viewers will complain and, in many cases, rightfully so.

I prefer my comedy to have a social commentary bite to it, so I'm not going to want to see pandering junk, but at the same time, I don't have a need to just laugh at someone who's ugly or disabled, for instance. Just the state of being either of those things isn't funny; there's humour to be found in both, but it's about the situations that arise from that life, not just pointing and laughing at the butterface. Too much wrestling humour in the past relied on the point and laugh technique which is widely seen as both dated and low-class. Does this make any sense? I feel like I'm rambling as I don't know how to exactly phrase what I mean.



shandcraig said:


> Plenty of more nerds sitting at home and you wanna claim these types wanna watch watch people like them, Simply not true. Same nonsense is being said that women are not portrayed as sex objects when in reality it's being pushed by themselves more than ever.


Those among us who choose to open something like an Onlyfans are deciding how to present themselves. it's exploitation from a position of control and power rather than from being controlled, but that may be a hard concept to get across to anyone who hasn't personally experienced sexual dynamics from anything but a cis-male perspective. Just trust me on this, it's not the same when a woman advertises her body as it is when someone else advertises it for her.


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

Gwi1890 said:


> no I watched TNA religiously no need to fucking insult



didnt expect you to take delusional and no clue what you're talking about as a insult. Sorry if you did as im not trying to personally attack. as we were !


----------



## shandcraig (Mar 23, 2008)

GothicBohemian said:


> Are you telling me that superhero/supervillain movies are not nerdy, 'cause if so, well, I have some sad news for you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im not going to respond to a million quotes because you clearly dont get what im saying. DId i say somehow all superhero movies are not nerdy ? i was not even trying to talk about hero movies but happened to use joker as an example of something that is not nerdy.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> Idgaf about what people think of me. They don't matter.


That explains so much


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Nickademus_Eternal said:


> Attitude era wasn't aggressive considering you had an old bitch giving birth to a hand and a dude named sexual chocolate dealing with a transvestite. If you can talk about dark order you can talk about that silly wwe bullshit. You "WWE fans" and "anti-aew fans" have selective memory.


I'm not a WWE fan and that "old bitch" had more testosterone than the whole AEW roster combined.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Jarrett was also a nationally known name who had a main event run in WCW and had been on national TV for over a decade by the time he took on Monty Brown.


I can't agree with you, bro. JJ not willing to lose the strap to young blood killed careers and damaged TNA forever. Because he was a second rate hillbilly and should never have been THE guy for any sort of promotion. What he did was worse than what WCW did.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Thomazbr said:


> Why do people have a irrational hatred for indy wrestling here?
> The first thing people do when they talk about anything bad about any of the wrestlers is that they are indie tier mudlaw garbage. Face it, there's an appeal to popularity present on these boards. If we're talking food analogies, to people in this board shit is only good if it is a multi millionaire chain restaurant with joints all over the world.
> 
> I'll give Chipp something because he being a indie booker has the pass, but whats the last time people here watched a genuine indie show? Do people here even watch the bigger indie like the occasional Bloodsport or just GCW as a whole?


Because current indy wrestling is all comedy and spot monkeys. You don't learn to do things the right way.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*This is exactly why I did not want Bryan versus Hangman. Making him fight every member of the Dork Order puts him in the same boat as Punk on Rampage. No one gives a fuck about this shit.*


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Wolf Mark said:


> I can't agree with you, bro. JJ not willing to lose the strap to young blood killed careers and damaged TNA forever. Because he was a second rate hillbilly and should never have been the THE guy for any sort of promotion. What he did was worse than what WCW did.


Cody always gives me JJ vibes. Huge chip on his shoulder.


----------



## El Hammerstone (Jan 11, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> Cody always gives me JJ vibes. Huge chip on his shoulder.


Difference being that at least Jarrett had the sense to realize he was a heel and acknowledge the fact.


----------



## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

El Hammerstone said:


> Difference being that at least Jarrett had the sense to realize he was a heel and acknowledge the fact.


The terrible fans should all be sent to re-education camps for booing the man who cured racism.


----------



## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> Cody always gives me JJ vibes. Huge chip on his shoulder.


Cody is just more clever with it cause he gives like Sonny Kiss 20 minutes in a match. He says he puts people over by doing that but it doesn't. They are like his subjects. Kiss was about to cry after the match. That's power.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown (Jan 8, 2017)

They're not costing AEW anything. Let's stop the nonsense here.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The Raw Smackdown said:


> They're not costing AEW anything. Let's stop the nonsense here.


The bryan storyline is only helping put DARK ORDER over even more and so far the matches haven't been bad at all.


----------



## Curryfor3 (Nov 23, 2021)

Bryan kicking all their heads in is probably the best thing they've done honestly lol.


----------



## TeamFlareZakk (Jul 15, 2020)

Just let Bryan destroy the Dork Order and then go challenge Hangman Page for the title.

Bring back Bryan's ole friend Rowan to help him win it.


----------



## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> The bryan storyline is only helping put DARK ORDER over even more and so far the matches haven't been bad at all.


you are nuts if you think dork order are over in any way. they have no appeal...TK is just too nice of a guy to break them up...yet these aew marks pretend as if they are some sort of asset for the company


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Joe Gill said:


> you are nuts if you think dork order are over in any way. they have no appeal...TK is just too nice of a guy to break them up...yet these aew marks pretend as if they are some sort of asset for the company


Crowd loves them and ratings don't dip so whatever bruh keep crying.


----------



## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Crowd loves them and ratings don't dip so whatever bruh keep crying.


lol crowd doesnt love them...they are usually very quiet. I doubt anyone buys tickets to watch them...if TK dropped them no one would revolt....OC on the other hand has fans even though i hate him I can recognize his appeal.


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Joe Gill said:


> lol crowd doesnt love them...they are usually very quiet. I doubt anyone buys tickets to watch them...if TK dropped them no one would revolt....OC on the other hand has fans even though i hate him I can recognize his appeal.


You're nuts

They have fans you just hate them lol


----------



## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

oh great another dork order clown wrestling tonight... that will surely bring in the viewers. Some bald headed generic midget that belongs on the indy scene. Fuck TK for wasting everyones time on this lame ass group that has no potential.


----------



## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

@Joe Gill was spot on.

Bryan had AEW reaching 1.4m viewers, and what do they do? Sweep him aside for a boring jabroni in Page - who's associated with one of the most embarrassing stables ever - and they're now at 800k.

This utter bore and his gang of looneys cost AEW 600k fans in no time.


----------



## SevenStarSplash (Jul 29, 2021)

Joe Gill said:


> I always had a feeling that the amateur look of Dork Order was going to turn fans away from the product. Today I got a real life example of my hunch. I had a few cousins visiting from out of town. They are in early 30s. Used to watch WWE back in late 90s early 2000s. They stopped watching after that. Moved on to UFC. They know I'm a big wrestling fan and yesterday one of them mentions that they heard the AEW ppv was pretty good. I was surprised that they heard that... but I asked them if they wanted to watch Dynamite. They said sure they'll try watching it. The show starts and the first thing they see is Dork Order in the ring. They literally start laughing out loud at how lame they look. Within 20 seconds of the show starting I feel embarrassed and they literally grabbed the remote out of my hand and say "enough of that incel shit". Never been more humiliated to be a wrestling fan in my life.


"Enough of that Incel shit" 

Dark Order's problem is that it tried to be serious but since you have a fat goof in a mask being their spokes person you cannot take it seriously at all. Brodie Lee's death really impacted the group negatively and if they were to have another "leader" or something i doubt it could fix the issues they have. They're must miss tv for me tbh.


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

*Joe Gill deserves multiple apologies. Bryan vs. Alan Angels tanked as the opening segment. 

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583*


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

Doesn't that show the overall viewership was up compared to the last 4 weeks????


----------



## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

$Dolladrew$ said:


> Doesn't that show the overall viewership was up compared to the last 4 weeks????


*LOL NO!

 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466512425679826953*


----------



## $Dolladrew$ (Jun 15, 2020)

The Legit DMD said:


> *LOL NO!
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466512425679826953*


That one is more confusing lol


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## GothicBohemian (May 26, 2012)

Lowest since May 19, huh?

They could be losing fans who tuned in only for CM Punk and then slowly discovered they just aren't all that into wrestling anymore after so many years away. They could also be dropping those fans who followed Punk or Danielson but expected everything to be just like another promotion, be that WWE, ECW, WCW, etc. 

Or maybe they're starting to lose some of those early fans who are more into workrate? I'm taking a break in part due to not liking some of the recent small changes in direction and where those may lead. 

Gain some, lose some.


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

GothicBohemian said:


> Lowest since May 19, huh?
> 
> They could be losing fans who tuned in only for CM Punk and then slowly discovered they just aren't all that into wrestling anymore after so many years away. They could also be dropping those fans who followed Punk or Danielson but expected everything to be just like another promotion, be that WWE, ECW, WCW, etc.
> 
> ...


*I'm not saying cut EVERY match to 5 minutes or less and make EVERYONE cut a 20 minute promo or engage in a long angle, because most of this roster isn't built for that. They're built to cater to workrate fans like you. The problem comes when the hierarchy is ignored and everyone is on equal footing because of GOOD WRASSLIN, while not acknowledging that these matches get no one over. The jobber just annoys people for getting too much offense in, and the star looks weak for allowing it.*


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## .christopher. (Jan 14, 2014)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Joe Gill deserves multiple apologies. Bryan vs. Alan Angels tanked as the opening segment.
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1466599783888408583*


Sad. Instead of striking whilst the iron was hot with Punk and Bryan, they threw said iron into an ice bath.

Bryan had them reaching their highest total viewership and is now tanking. Why? Not only because no one cares about him wrestling jobbers and feuding with a jabroni in Page, they (AEW) immediately told the fans he was nothing special by having him to a time limit draw against Omega in a non title match.

Then, with Punk, wasting the first few months of his return on jobbers has negated all the good work he's done recently with MJF and Kingston. Punk just had what was to many one of AEWs best ever segments with MJF but not only did it not increase the following weeks ratings, they lost viewers despite last week being a taped thanksgiving episode! Why? Because the fans who came to see this from Punk in the first place were put off by his initial booking and the rest of the show was an utter mess which gave them no incentive to stay, so why come back to watch when you know Punk (& Bryan) aren't going to be treated like top talents?

This is exactly why some of us criticised their introductions to the company. They've both already lost that star power feel. Much like when Sting debuted.


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## Wolf Mark (Jun 5, 2020)

.christopher. said:


> Sad. Instead of striking whilst the iron was hot with Punk and Bryan, they threw said iron into an ice bath.
> 
> Bryan had them reaching their highest total viewership and is now tanking. Why? Not only because no one cares about him wrestling jobbers and feuding with a jabroni in Page, they (AEW) immediately told the fans he was nothing special by having him to a time limit draw against Omega in a non title match.
> 
> ...












But yea we knew it, predicted it. Scary thing is TK is still oblivious to it.


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## Ultimo Duggan (Nov 19, 2021)

Leviticus said:


> If these guys could actually work, most matches werent them doing move after move while everyone else stands around obviously waiting to catch them, i wouldnt have an issue.


There are dozens of indies that produce wrestlers. For either of you or anyone who shares the mindset that Indy wrestling is by definition a poor training ground for the next generation of up coming talent. Which , in your opinion, is producing the “wrong style” of wrestling?

How long have you watched the indies? Did you prefer ROH, PWG, CZW, Evolve, DGUSA, IWA-MS, AAW, AIW, Chikara, NWA Wildside, C*4, SMASH, OVW, GCW or those smaller lucha or southern groups that are as obscure as they are traditional. Most wrestlers aren’t mint out of the box when they are hired by Corporate Entertainment Monopoly and sent to their Performance Centre for Indoctrination Class. 

It is extremely difficult to develop a wrestler’s interviews on an Indy format or schedule. ROH used to run an average of a full live event for DVD release and a weekly TV show. Most Other indies run once a month. Nobody is contracted excluding ROH (until recently) and probably the Gabe Sapolsky-run promotions. Running more than the most basic storylines are pretty difficult to maintain with the sparseness that most run.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Ratings are more proof you got to keep them lower tier jobbers on dark.


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## Wridacule (Aug 23, 2018)

Just came in here to say I'm more hype for Bryan danileson vs John silver than anything I've been hype for in a long time. 

Remember what danileson did with Santino in a cage under wwe restrictions? This is gonna be a breakout moment for Johnny hungy and I'm here for it🤣


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## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

.christopher. said:


> Sad. Instead of striking whilst the iron was hot with Punk and Bryan, they threw said iron into an ice bath.
> 
> Bryan had them reaching their highest total viewership and is now tanking. Why? Not only because no one cares about him wrestling jobbers and feuding with a jabroni in Page, they (AEW) immediately told the fans he was nothing special by having him to a time limit draw against Omega in a non title match.
> 
> ...


after the bryan omega draw they should have had a 1 hour iron man match.... instead like typical aew fashion they immediately drop the feud so the sad cowboy can become champ because TK had already scribbled it down on paper than hangman would be the 4th champion after jericho, moxley and omega. Now omega is injured and we may never get the iron man match. TK is seriously the most overrated booker maybe ever.


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## Leviticus (May 1, 2020)

Ultimo Duggan said:


> There are dozens of indies that produce wrestlers. For either of you or anyone who shares the mindset that Indy wrestling is by definition a poor training ground for the next generation of up coming talent. Which , in your opinion, is producing the “wrong style” of wrestling?
> 
> How long have you watched the indies? Did you prefer ROH, PWG, CZW, Evolve, DGUSA, IWA-MS, AAW, AIW, Chikara, NWA Wildside, C*4, SMASH, OVW, GCW or those smaller lucha or southern groups that are as obscure as they are traditional. Most wrestlers aren’t mint out of the box when they are hired by Corporate Entertainment Monopoly and sent to their Performance Centre for Indoctrination Class.
> 
> It is extremely difficult to develop a wrestler’s interviews on an Indy format or schedule. ROH used to run an average of a full live event for DVD release and a weekly TV show. Most Other indies run once a month. Nobody is contracted excluding ROH (until recently) and probably the Gabe Sapolsky-run promotions. Running more than the most basic storylines are pretty difficult to maintain with the sparseness that most run.


I only have issues with tw types of wrestling......comedy and ultraviolent.

Comedy wrestling because it doesnt take wrestling seriously as an artform, and is almost entirely based around mocking the fact that its scripted. Orange Cassidy and other former Chikara guys are prime examples of this. Invisible hand grenades, wrestling sex dolls, etc. The Bucks and Omega do this too, but at least they can put on serious matches when they try. Most Chikara alumni can't. Dont get me started on the poorly executed rippoff "lucha" matches they had. I have Mexican friends that feel disrespected by guys from Chikara because they consider them to be mocking lucha libre.

And ultraviolent because it takes no skill or talent its just a bunch of bum who couldnt make it as actual pro wrestlers trying to give each other concussions so they all end up as brain damaged as Chris Benoit was at the end of his life.


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