# WOR - Dave notes that while AEW is on a hot streak their payroll costs have increased tremendously while their TV rights revenue is similar to the ext



## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

What are they thinking when they signed Big Show and Christian Cage to huge contracts? 
It's just a very stupid and unwise decision that won't end well at all!


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

Punk already paid for his contract in T-shirt sales and PPV buys. The next rights deal will be much bigger than the current one and the Khans are filthy rich. This is a non-story.


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## Smark1995 (Sep 18, 2020)

A PG Attitude said:


> Punk already paid for his contract in T-shirt sales and PPV buys. The next rights deal will be much bigger than the current one and the Khans are filthy rich. This is a non-story.


Punk and Bryan deserve their money but Big Show and Christian ... I don't think so


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## Makish16 (Aug 31, 2016)

A PG Attitude said:


> Punk already paid for his contract in T-shirt sales and PPV buys. The next rights deal will be much bigger than the current one and the Khans are filthy rich. This is a non-story.


Bryan will pay off his contract by the next ppv and without punk and Bryan they won't get a better TV deal 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


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## Jericolcaholic (Jul 26, 2021)

Holy shit, you guys think big show and Christian are not good investments?
Go watch the vlogs and behind the scenes shit, all the younger guys go to Paul and Christian and Mark whenever they need advice.
Those guys are the glue you need to get a real roster going, guys who know storytelling and on camera wrestling.
Tony could also keep aew afloat with just pocket change.


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## 3venflow (Feb 3, 2019)

To be honest, based on what I've seen/read, I think Mark Henry justifies his employment more than Paul Wight so far. Henry is doing seminars backstage with young guys to help them improve and is at the front of the community outreach program. Wight is commentating on Elevation and has done one squash match. Not sure if he's as active with the young guys backstage, I'd hope so.

On the main topic, Khan is so ridiculously wealthy that even if AEW lost $2m in a year, it's virtually nothing for him. As a businessman, profitability will be on his agenda though, so there will be a method behind allowing the payroll to skyrocket. A combination of live event sales and expectations regarding their next TV deal are probably part of that. After doing a 0.53 demo on Dynamite, if Khan was to renegotiate the TV deal right now, he could expect a massive increase. WWE RAW, which Dynamite just beat, is getting $265m per year while Dynamite is getting $43.75m per year. Even if they increased it to $100m per year, that'd swallow up the payroll increases.


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## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

Neither Brian "I'm having a hard time constructing a sentence with more than 2 words in it" Cage nor Lance "I sing along to my own entrance music" Archer will make any money for the company ... like ... ever. They wish they were has-beens, but they never even were.

Paul Wight and Christian Cage on the other hand are (or were, if you wanna nitpick) actual stars. They were never megastars, granted, but their names have a certain value and gravity in the business, and I see why Tony attributes a certain value to their signings.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

A PG Attitude said:


> Punk already paid for his contract in T-shirt sales and PPV buys. The next rights deal will be much bigger than the current one and the Khans are filthy rich. This is a non-story.


this

’there are those in the industry…’

those in the industry have never seen TKs bank balance and have no idea what wealth means as opposed to ‘rich’


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## reyfan (May 23, 2011)

Let's not forget they have guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella on 6 figure contracts.


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## Oiky (Oct 23, 2014)

Shut up meltzer tony khan had an absolute fortune ages and ages before AEW


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

"Dave says everyone at the mid-level and up thinks they belong in the main event."

To me, this is the key line. They have brought in a lot of guys that were frustrated by their usage in WWE, as well as actual stars now, and there is no possibility to feature everyone on TV every week. That breeds jealousy and frustration. But that is just natural I guess.

Remember in WCW when all the young guys were frustrated because they kept bringing in older ex WWF guys to main event?

Personally I think stuff like this is a result of giving every kid a participation trophy and convincing them they were special when they are just average.

Interesting to see a more negative story from Uncle Dave as soon as they start featuring more actual stars.


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## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

3venflow said:


> To be honest, based on what I've seen/read, I think Mark Henry justifies his employment more than Paul Wight so far. Henry is doing seminars backstage with young guys to help them improve and is at the front of the community outreach program. Wight is commentating on Elevation and has done one squash match. Not sure if he's as active with the young guys backstage, I'd hope so.
> 
> On the main topic, Khan is so ridiculously wealthy that even if AEW lost $2m in a year, it's virtually nothing for him. As a businessman, profitability will be on his agenda though, so there will be a method behind allowing the payroll to skyrocket. A combination of live event sales and expectations regarding their next TV deal are probably part of that. After doing a 0.53 demo on Dynamite, if Khan was to renegotiate the TV deal right now, he could expect a massive increase. WWE RAW, which Dynamite just beat, is getting $265m per year while Dynamite is getting $43.75m per year. Even if they increased it to $100m per year, that'd swallow up the payroll increases.


Yes, but that is three years away I believe. If AEW is losing $10-$20M per year, that is a loss that is considerable. That said, these signings were not just at a whim. Khan (or anyone else starting a competing organization) had to be willing to run at a loss for a few years.


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## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Two Sheds said:


> "Dave says everyone at the mid-level and up thinks they belong in the main event."
> 
> To me, this is the key line. They have brought in a lot of guys that were frustrated by their usage in WWE, as well as actual stars now, and there is no possibility to feature everyone on TV every week. That breeds jealousy and frustration. But that is just natural I guess.
> 
> ...


There were two periods of resentment:

1994-1995: Hogan comes in and with his power tries to turn WCW into WWF. Dugan, Honkytonk Man, Earthquake, Beefcake, Savage, and Kamala arrive.

1997 Onward - Ossification. To get to the main event, one had to be earning “main event money”. The only exception was Bill Goldberg. Others like Chris Jericho saw their career prospects permanently limited by this otherwise iron rule.

On the second point, that is where AEW has to differ.


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## nunzioguy (May 16, 2021)

Anyone else think this is an intentional leak to anyone like KO who might feel bad if he doesn’t get to come to AEW when his friends are there?


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

I suspect the aim is to bargain for a stronger and more lucrative contract by 2023. They are hoping for it. Signing these big stars given the opportunity will allow them to grow between now and 2023, giving them greater leverage.

I believe that TKs financial advisors have carefully calculated this. But we all know how things can go wrong if the predictions do not come true.


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## Jedah (Jul 16, 2017)

The next TV deal should rectify this but still, they really do need to cut some of the deadweight. They've made a ton of signings of very dubious value. Most of them probably aren't big money signings, but they add up.


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## nunzioguy (May 16, 2021)

reyfan said:


> Let's not forget they have guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella on 6 figure contracts.


Wow really?


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## InexorableJourney (Sep 10, 2016)

Surely the extra $2million plus gained from the PPV must have gone some way to finance them.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Jedah said:


> The next TV deal should rectify this but still, they really do need to cut some of the deadweight. They've made a ton of signings of very dubious value. Most of them probably aren't big money signings, but they add up.


Many are on pay per appearance contracts with the freedom to work elsewhere. A lot of exaggerated ideas about this idea of a bloated roster.


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## FITZ (May 8, 2007)

I imagine the hype they have is going to generate them a lot more in ticket sales and PPV buys. I still don't think they're turning a profit right now. But I think they're working for their next TV contract right now. If they can keep the ratings increasing they're going to get a huge increase on their next deal in a couple of years. I think they're really hoping to point out the deal WWE has and be able to say they have the same amount of viewers in key demos and try to not a comparable deal. If they can even come close to pulling that off then I think the money they're spending now pays for itself.


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## [email protected] (Oct 9, 2013)

Geert Wilders said:


> I suspect the aim is to bargain for a stronger and more lucrative contract by 2023. They are hoping for it. Signing these big stars given the opportunity will allow them to grow between now and 2023, giving them greater leverage.
> 
> I believe that TKs financial advisors have carefully calculated this. But we all know how things can go wrong if the predictions do not come true.


The biggest risk they have is that crowd capacities drop back down. That will kill some of the momentum, and eliminate their ability to grow through larger venues between now and the time when the TV deal is renegotiated. Unless the network wants to come back to the table early, they need these new big names, and the ones that are coming in order to fill bigger arenas. Or at least to to run more big shows where they can rotate out the main events


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

If you only take the TNT TV deal vs roster contract approach, then sure it will be a while before they are profitable. However, that doesn't include ticket sales, merch sales, the international TV deals, and PPV buys. The recent high priced signing are why there ratings are up and why they will get a highly lucrative deal on in the future. Khan said Punk covered his contract in merch sales alone. All Out's PPV buys brought in a big chuck of revenue and with the new stars on the roster, they should be able to stay above 150k buys consistently.

That doesn't even take into account that TK has enough money to run this company for years to come. They could never make a profit (they obviously will) and he will still be fine.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

Prized Fighter said:


> That doesn't even take into account that TK has enough money to run this company for years to come. They could never make a profit (they obviously will) and he will still be fine.


Well, his father does. People keep missing that very important distinction.


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## Bit Bitterson (Sep 18, 2020)

A PG Attitude said:


> Punk already paid for his contract in T-shirt sales and PPV buys. The next rights deal will be much bigger than the current one and the Khans are filthy rich. This is a non-story.


Exactly. I assume that some of the early AEW talent may not be renewed, either. The next AEW TV deal is going to be huge. The last thing Tony Kahn is worried about is money.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> Well, his father does. People keep missing that very important distinction.


Unless we know Shahid has set financial caps for his AEW investment there isn't much point in making the distinction.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

AthleticGirth said:


> Unless we know Shahid has set financial caps for his AEW investment there isn't much point in making the distinction.


It is important because it means ultimately Tony is not in control of it.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Contact the Saudi prince and offer up Paul Wight vs Shaquille O'Neal, Mike Tyson vs Chris Jericho, and Team MMA vs Team Pro Wrestlers. Hell, do Sting vs Flair is you have to 😂 McGregor vs Punk too. 

Yeah it will suck but that's potentially the same amount as the TV deal for one show.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> It is important because it means ultimately Tony is not in control of it.


He's the CEO / President / joint owner, of course he's in control.


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## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Meltzer seem to forget that quite a lot of contracts are ending pretty soon.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

AthleticGirth said:


> He's the CEO / President / joint owner, of course he's in control.


He is not in control of the funding if more is needed. That is the clear and simple point. If you are the CEO of a company and your investors pull out and you cannot personally fund the company, you are done. I am not saying any of that would ever happen in this case, but the people on here saying Tony could just fund this forever and take a loss are hilariously incorrect.


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## MyMelody (Feb 4, 2019)

Smark1995 said:


> WOR - Dave notes that while AEW is on a hot streak their payroll costs have increased tremendously while their TV rights revenue is similar to the extended deal signed in May of this year. More notes on talent in the text post.
> Dave says Punk (Punk is the most expensive), Danielson, Christian Cage, Paul Wight etc are on big deals. While the increased costs will have been offset to an extent by live gates and the start of Rampage (and will be further increased by the four quarterly specials next year), there are those in the industry who think they are spending themselves into trouble.
> 
> In relation to the comments by Brian Cage, Dave says everyone at the mid-level and up thinks they belong in the main event. While WWE want to get AEW guys to stop the narrative about talent all going one way, realistically most of their current and up-and-coming stars know they will not be used right there and have a lot less creative freedom. Jericho is more valuable than he has ever been but towards the end of his run there he was seen as someone who should just be putting over younger talent.
> ...


Do fans of other TV shows go onto forums and discuss and dissect who earns how much and how the ratings are compared to other TV shows?
Just enjoy it or don’t. People are fucking weird.


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## Prized Fighter (Aug 31, 2016)

Two Sheds said:


> Well, his father does. People keep missing that very important distinction.


Yes and no. TK's money has come from Shad Khan at times, but he has plenty of money in the bank from outside investments. Tony isn't just asking his dad to write a check everytime he wants to sign a wrestler. The guy is worth over $1B. He isn't begging for cash. It isn't like the guy came from the poor house and his dad is bailing him out.


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## A PG Attitude (Nov 5, 2012)

MyMelody said:


> Do fans of other TV shows go onto forums and discuss and dissect who earns how much and how the ratings are compared to other TV shows?
> Just enjoy it or don’t. People are fucking weird.


This is a very good point.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

People keep saying the new TV deal will be increased but I ask you all what makes you think that? AEW is still doing the same rating on average that it was doing in 2019. I pointed out last week that the AEW rating from the first week of September in 2020 was just 30,000 lower than the rating in September 2021. That's with the return of the crowds and at least 10 big signings.

If they can keep their rating at 1.3 million people like it was last episode then it's a different discussion but if it drops down again like it does when most major stars debut why would TBS give AEW more money? They'd either give them around the same or give them less because the ratings aren't growing. AEW isn't going to get around what the WWE does on a TV deal no matter how hard we all wish.



Makish16 said:


> Bryan will pay off his contract by the next ppv and without punk and Bryan they won't get a better TV deal
> 
> Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


If Bryan is capable of paying off his contract in a month or two then he's an idiot because he's taken massive unders to work for AEW. You don't think Bryan, Punk etc know that they're going to sell millions in T-Shirts and make deals accordingly?

You're forgetting the most important thing and that is OVERHEAD. Yeah, Punk might've sold 100,000 shirts at 30 bucks each or whatever it was and you all might think "Damn, that's 3 million dollars right there!" but there is overhead in making shirts (About 10-15 dollars each for a good one from experience), the supplier takes a cut, Punk would get a cut and AEW would get a cut. Out of that 30 dollars AEW might make 3-5 dollars a shirt which is still a ton of money but a far cry from everyone here (And Tony himself) claiming Punk already paid his yearly salary from T-Shirts alone.

Same deal with Bryan, his big match with Kenny might result in another 30-40 thousand buys but there is a shit ton of overhead on PPV, I think many fans forget this and just assume it is all profit.



Jericolcaholic said:


> Holy shit, you guys think big show and Christian are not good investments?
> Go watch the vlogs and behind the scenes shit, all the younger guys go to Paul and Christian and Mark whenever they need advice.
> Those guys are the glue you need to get a real roster going, guys who know storytelling and on camera wrestling.
> Tony could also keep aew afloat with just pocket change.


Sure, I would believe that Big Show, Christian and Mark Henry would be great on giving advice to the young fellas but AEW already had Tully, Arn, Malenko, Jerry Lynn, Jake Roberts, Taz, Jericho etc to do the exact same thing before they signed therefore if the sole purpose of them being signed is for mentorship roles then it's bad business.

Also, I'm not so sure I'd count on Tony's Dad being okay with Tony losing money for life. I remember many TNA fans subscribing to the same thought process because Panda Energy was worth like 5 billion dollars so giving Dixie a few million here and there to top up TNA was nothing but eventually they got over losing money, cut their losses and sold.



MyMelody said:


> Do fans of other TV shows go onto forums and discuss and dissect who earns how much and how the ratings are compared to other TV shows?
> Just enjoy it or don’t. People are fucking weird.


Of course they do, if you go on IMDB and read about your favourite movies or TV shows it always references salaries, ratings, box offices etc.

Fact of the matter is the business side of entertainment is incredibly interesting to people.


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## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

Two Sheds said:


> He is not in control of the funding if more is needed. That is the clear and simple point. If you are the CEO of a company and your investors pull out and you cannot personally fund the company, you are done. I am not saying any of that would ever happen in this case, but the people on here saying Tony could just fund this forever and take a loss are hilariously incorrect.


The Khan's bought an English football club, which is a constant financial loss maker. They've got players in their squad making six figures a week, I imagine they're paying their NFL players figures that dwarf that. The value in owning these clubs/teams is that they're brand extenders and status symbols. 

All we can do is speculate on the ambition, financial or otherwise, of AEW. There may very well be no caps on investment and no concrete plans on when they need to turn a profit. The fact the lead investor is Tony's dad makes a financial collapse / pulling of funding seem unlikely, to the point I think we can disregard it. With Punk, Danielson and Cole they're carpe diem opportunities - AEW couldn't not sign them, even if it did scupper some financial planning.


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## One Shed (Jan 7, 2014)

AthleticGirth said:


> The Khan's bought an English football club, which is a constant financial loss maker. They've got players in their squad making six figures a week, I imagine they're paying their NFL players figures that dwarf that. The value in owning these clubs/teams is that they're brand extenders and status symbols.
> 
> All we can do is speculate on the ambition, financial or otherwise, of AEW. There may very well be no caps on investment and no concrete plans on when they need to turn a profit. The fact the lead investor is Tony's dad makes a financial collapse / pulling of funding seem unlikely, to the point I think we can disregard it. With Punk, Danielson and Cole they're carpe diem opportunities - AEW couldn't not sign them, even if it did scupper some financial planning.


Oh, I agree with everything you said here. I think it is extremely unlikely his dad would pull the plug. My only point was Tony would not be the one to make that decision.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Seafort said:


> Yes, but that is three years away I believe. If AEW is losing $10-$20M per year, that is a loss that is considerable. That said, these signings were not just at a whim. Khan (or anyone else starting a competing organization) had to be willing to run at a loss for a few years.


The deal expires Dec 2023.


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## Algernon (Jul 27, 2006)

Said it before. Sign any big name talent that becomes available and figure out the rest later. They’re going to have a new TV deal to fall back on financially.

Wrestlings value from a tv standpoint is content. Wrestling is one of the few entities that gives you original content 52 weeks a year. Throw in strong demos and good ratings, that is good ratings for 2021 standards, you see why theres 9 hours of prime time wrestling every week. Ten hours overall with Rampage.

Punk, Danielson and other ex WWE guys come at a sky high cost but they equal interest, buzz and bigger tv deal so mission accomplished really.
Cost cutting is coming but not for awhile. If they’re not profitable going into their 2nd tv deal then there’s cause for concern.


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> You're forgetting the most important thing and that is OVERHEAD. Yeah, Punk might've sold 100,000 shirts at 30 bucks each or whatever it was and you all might think "Damn, that's 3 million dollars right there!" but there is overhead in making shirts (About 10-15 dollars each for a good one from experience), the supplier takes a cut, Punk would get a cut and AEW would get a cut. Out of that 30 dollars AEW might make 3-5 dollars a shirt which is still a ton of money but a far cry from everyone here (And Tony himself) claiming Punk already paid his yearly salary from T-Shirts alone.
> 
> Same deal with Bryan, his big match with Kenny might result in another 30-40 thousand buys but there is a shit ton of overhead on PPV, I think many fans forget this and just assume it is all profit.


Thats the thing for me where I think how stupid some people are. I really dont get how so many people (not essentially here in the forum) dont know that this costs money to produce. 

And of course if TK says „Punk paid his contract in tshirts alone“, this must be true?! If so Punk is really stupid as he seems to be on a lower contract than Cody for example.

But hey, why use economical logic, when I can just overhype stuff


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## shawnyhc01 (Feb 25, 2011)

I believe Khan has had the plan for losing money for these investments for at lest 2~3 years, so no need to worry about it, but they should stop to sign big names. They have to improve the quality of the show. Even now is great, but they have to keep competing a company that is exist for 50 years already.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Algernon said:


> Punk, Danielson and other ex WWE guys come at a sky high cost but they equal interest, buzz and bigger tv deal so mission accomplished really.


Usually I'd agree with you (I've witnessed it myself heaps of times) but in AEW's circumstance it really isn't giving them a boost. If you look at the September 2nd, 2020 ratings they went unopposed to NXT and had 928,000 people watching, on September 1st, 2021 they had 1.047 million people watching for a gain of just over a hundred thousand people.

Doesn't sound too bad but in that time AEW has signed Miro, Sting, Andrade, Malakai Black, CM Punk, Christian Cage, Paul Wight, Mark Henry, PAC (Returned), Shaq, Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg and I'm sure I'm missing a few. Tens of millions of dollars spent for an increase of just a hundred thousand and some change. Oof.




fabi1982 said:


> Thats the thing for me where I think how stupid some people are. I really dont get how so many people (not essentially here in the forum) dont know that this costs money to produce.
> 
> And of course if TK says „Punk paid his contract in tshirts alone“, this must be true?! If so Punk is really stupid as he seems to be on a lower contract than Cody for example.
> 
> But hey, why use economical logic, when I can just overhype stuff


I think Tony said that just to add to the hype of the situation unless Punk took some really low deal which is doubtful considering he said it'd take a "stupid amount" of money to return.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> People keep saying the new TV deal will be increased but I ask you all what makes you think that? AEW is still doing the same rating on average that it was doing in 2019. I pointed out last week that the AEW rating from the first week of September in 2020 was just 30,000 lower than the rating in September 2021. That's with the return of the crowds and at least 10 big signings.
> 
> If they can keep their rating at 1.3 million people like it was last episode then it's a different discussion but if it drops down again like it does when most major stars debut why would TBS give AEW more money? They'd either give them around the same or give them less because the ratings aren't growing. AEW isn't going to get around what the WWE does on a TV deal no matter how hard we all wish.
> 
> ...


Supply and demand. 'Live Sports' are what networks are dying to have right now, and if AEW is putting up the same or similar ratings in 2023 when ratings across the board are dropping, Networks will bid like crazy to have that weekly content and built-in fanbase. There is virtually no chance AEW wouldn't *at least* double their current deal.

Even if overhead was $5, which is probably either low, or they give Punk a higher cut as part of his deal, that's still over $1,000,000. They've sold over 200,000 shirts. Combine that with the most tickets they ever sold for his debut show and it's certainly possible his deal was paid for between those two things. It certainly was if you factor in the massive PPV buys. We don't know the details of his contract but it's possible that it's loaded with incentives/high % cuts.


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## DMD Mofomagic (Jun 9, 2017)

Prized Fighter said:


> Yes and no. TK's money has come from Shad Khan at times, but he has plenty of money in the bank from outside investments. Tony isn't just asking his dad to write a check everytime he wants to sign a wrestler. The guy is worth over $1B. He isn't begging for cash. It isn't like the guy came from the poor house and his dad is bailing him out.


TK has said that his dad thought this thing was a bad idea and he is just giving him some of his trust find to blow just to see him happy.

This is a non story because TK had the money to keep this thing going for as long as he wants.

AEW dies when he starts getting bored, that is all there is to it. Nothing else will kill this company


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ (Apr 21, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> this
> 
> ’there are those in the industry…’
> 
> those in the industry have never seen TKs bank balance and have no idea what wealth means as opposed to ‘rich’


*Tony Khan could keep this company alive without a television deal at all, but that's not ideal. As a businessman, you don't want to operate in the red, because it's not a good look. If they continue this momentum and average around 1.2 million viewers from here on out, they should get a much better TV deal and offset the massive salary costs, but for now, especially with Tony Khan putting at least 10 million of his own dollars into the video game, they will be operating out of the red for quite a while.*


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Supply and demand. 'Live Sports' are what networks are dying to have right now, and if AEW is putting up the same or similar ratings in 2023 when ratings across the board are dropping, Networks will bid like crazy to have that weekly content and built-in fanbase. There is virtually no chance AEW wouldn't *at least* double their current deal.
> 
> Even if overhead was $5, which is probably either low, or they give Punk a higher cut as part of his deal, that's still over $1,000,000. They've sold over 200,000 shirts. Combine that with the most tickets they ever sold for his debut show and it's certainly possible his deal was paid for between those two things. It certainly was if you factor in the massive PPV buys. We don't know the details of his contract but it's possible that it's loaded with incentives/high % cuts.


They will bid for the built in fanbase but will come to the conclusion that the product won't grow its ratings past the million or so no matter what they do. I think doubling their current deal is pretty hopeful but maybe I'm wrong.

5 dollars x 200,000 shirts is a million bucks flat but then you have to pay the tax man as well. Your million dollars is probably closer to 700,000 - 750,000 at that point which is still awesome but not quite the millions and millions AEW fans think Punk brought to the company with shirts.

And yeah, I'd guarantee that Punk, Bryan and probably the other big stars like Jericho have some kind of bonus in their contract for PPV's as well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Punk will see something like 2-5% of the total profits from every PPV he appears on and I wouldn't be surprised if Bryan had that same deal.


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> People keep saying the new TV deal will be increased but I ask you all what makes you think that? AEW is still doing the same rating on average that it was doing in 2019. I pointed out last week that the AEW rating from the first week of September in 2020 was just 30,000 lower than the rating in September 2021. That's with the return of the crowds and at least 10 big signings.
> 
> If they can keep their rating at 1.3 million people like it was last episode then it's a different discussion but if it drops down again like it does when most major stars debut why would TBS give AEW more money? They'd either give them around the same or give them less because the ratings aren't growing. AEW isn't going to get around what the WWE does on a TV deal no matter how hard we all wish


Same reason WWE went from from 63 million rights fees in 2009 to 470 million in 2019 via two negotiation cycles. Despite viewership falling from high 4 million to mid 2 million. And the demo falling with it. 

It's a sellers market and if WarnerMedia aren't interested in a franchise that delivers a relatively strong demo to an ailing platform, regular audience and several hours of live content per week. Well, there is a rival platform or three that will be. That's why WWE boomed in 2018 - Fox came calling. Though unlike them, AEW would be selling as the whole package. 

That's without taking into account a larger roster, each with their own social media presence. It's an influencer world and Danielson, Punk, Christian, Henry and Wight bring about 12 million Twitter followers between them. Does it matter how many are the same people? Of course not, it's all about media BS. They'll sell that in the same you can sell a history of trending and online video views. And licensing partners and coverage in international markets as the likes of HBOMax are pushed worldwide.


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## Chan Hung (Dec 28, 2011)

Smark1995 said:


> What are they thinking when they signed Big Show and Christian Cage to huge contracts?
> It's just a very stupid and unwise decision that won't end well at all!


And Mark 'monotone' Henry


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaSlacker said:


> Same reason WWE went from from 63 million rights fees in 2009 to 470 million in 2019 via two negotiation cycles. Despite viewership falling from high 4 million to mid 2 million. And the demo falling with it.
> 
> It's a sellers market and if WarnerMedia aren't interested in a franchise that delivers a relatively strong demo to an ailing platform, regular audience and several hours of live content per week. Well, there is a rival platform or three that will be. That's why WWE boomed in 2018 - Fox came calling. Though unlike them, AEW would be selling as the whole package.
> 
> That's without taking into account a larger roster, each with their own social media presence. It's an influencer world and Danielson, Punk, Christian, Henry and Wight bring about 12 million Twitter followers between them. Does it matter how many are the same people? Of course not, it's all about media BS. They'll sell that in the same you can sell a history of trending and online video views. And licensing partners and coverage in international markets as the likes of HBOMax are pushed worldwide.


WWE and AEW aren't the same. Compare the two:

WWE has mainstream appeal, you see the WWE on major talk shows, the WWE has access to some of the biggest celebrities in the world, The Rock will likely come in for a run on Smackdown in the next year or two which is no doubt worth tens of millions of dollars to a network. WWE has most of the major wrestling stars and a proven track record of creating some of the biggest stars in wrestling. Also, to a television network they'd take the guy with a solid 40 years of running wrestling and his staff.

AEW has niche appeal, you don't see it on any mainstream media, they don't really get celebrities on The Rock's level instead using older celebs, they've got two major wrestling stars and are unlikely to get anymore until WWE releases someone again. Tony has 2 years experience running wrestling and is very much learning on the job as is his staff.


----------



## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Chip Chipperson said:


> People keep saying the new TV deal will be increased but I ask you all what makes you think that? AEW is still doing the same rating on average that it was doing in 2019. I pointed out last week that the AEW rating from the first week of September in 2020 was just 30,000 lower than the rating in September 2021. That's with the return of the crowds and at least 10 big signings.


ughh You really need to get with the time. Their deal will be worth at least double what they're getting now in 2023 even with the same ratings.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They will bid for the built in fanbase but will come to the conclusion that the product won't grow its ratings past the million or so no matter what they do. I think doubling their current deal is pretty hopeful but maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> 5 dollars x 200,000 shirts is a million bucks flat but then you have to pay the tax man as well. Your million dollars is probably closer to 700,000 - 750,000 at that point which is still awesome but not quite the millions and millions AEW fans think Punk brought to the company with shirts.
> 
> And yeah, I'd guarantee that Punk, Bryan and probably the other big stars like Jericho have some kind of bonus in their contract for PPV's as well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Punk will see something like 2-5% of the total profits from every PPV he appears on and I wouldn't be surprised if Bryan had that same deal.


The product not growing past a million is irrelevant if it's even true, which we don't know. Ratings are going down for everyone. Having an established show that you can rely 52 weeks/year (and twice/week) is significantly more valuable to networks than viewership count being a million vs 900k. I'd be absolutely stunned if they didn't double their deal. If TBS doesn't offer it someone else will.

Some smart decision maker is going to look and notice "Hey, four years ago Fox gave WWE $205 million/year for 2 hours of content/week. USA gave WWE $150 million/year for 5 hours/content week. Those appear to be working. This other company isn't that far off in the demos and they offer us 3 hours (possibly 4 by 2023, and I don't know how their other properties factor into this) of content per week. We could snag them up for significantly less and not have to worry about our Wednesday PT slot for the next 5 years. Let's offer $100 million, or because it's been four years let's give them $130 million."


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## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Supply and demand. 'Live Sports' are what networks are dying to have right now, and if AEW is putting up the same or similar ratings in 2023 when ratings across the board are dropping, Networks will bid like crazy to have that weekly content and built-in fanbase. There is virtually no chance AEW wouldn't *at least* double their current deal.
> 
> Even if overhead was $5, which is probably either low, or they give Punk a higher cut as part of his deal, that's still over $1,000,000. They've sold over 200,000 shirts. Combine that with the most tickets they ever sold for his debut show and it's certainly possible his deal was paid for between those two things. It certainly was if you factor in the massive PPV buys. We don't know the details of his contract but it's possible that it's loaded with incentives/high % cuts.


So he is just on a half year deal?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The Definition of Technician said:


> ughh You really need to get with the time. Their deal will be worth at least double what they're getting now in 2023 even with the same ratings.


Explain how. The rating hasn't gone up considerably, it all depends on if the loyal fanbase was priced in on that original AEW and TNT deal or it was not.

If it wasn't they probably will get double, if it was they'll probably get the same.


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## Undertaker23RKO (Jun 11, 2011)

fabi1982 said:


> So he is just on a half year deal?


I don't know what the overhead and ticket cuts are. I'm saying it's possible, not guaranteed.


----------



## IAmKaim (Jul 7, 2021)

Jericolcaholic said:


> Holy shit, you guys think big show and Christian are not good investments?
> Go watch the vlogs and behind the scenes shit, all the younger guys go to Paul and Christian and Mark whenever they need advice.
> Those guys are the glue you need to get a real roster going, guys who know storytelling and on camera wrestling.
> Tony could also keep aew afloat with just pocket change.


It's WF. Home of the shit show opinions. Are you really surprised?


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

And I really dont get thar „he can put more money in if he wants to“, at least over here in Germany this is not easily possible, especially with a private company like AEW is. You add money for the start but have to get a profit or private equaty money (so you have to give up parts of the compny), but you cant add your own money to it (you can as a private credit, you have to pay back in a reasonable time). If you just add money into a money losing company you are (at least in Germany) at risk to get caught for delaying filling of insolvency.

I am not so sure if it is similar in the US, but at least it shouldnt be that much different.


----------



## Lady Eastwood (Jul 10, 2006)

A lot of these signings are still fairly new, I think we need to give AEW a chance before we start ruling them out with using talent properly. I don’t doubt more hours will be added to their shows, whether it be another hour to Rampage, or, adding another weekly show altogether.


----------



## IronMan8 (Dec 25, 2015)

The real story here is Dave’s recent criticism of AEW suggests his 2-year contract might be up and Dave is negotiating for more money.


----------



## Geeee (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm sure there's countries that don't get AEW that are interested now that Punk and Danielson are on board. So, that's some $$$ right there

That being said, if Tony Khan's goal was to take money and turn it into even more money, I'm sure there are more efficient ways to do it than to run a wrestling show. No doubt, AEW only exists because Tony Khan is rich and he loves wrestling.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Oiky said:


> Shut up meltzer tony khan had an absolute fortune ages and ages before AEW


No his Dad did.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Prized Fighter said:


> Yes and no. TK's money has come from Shad Khan at times, but he has plenty of money in the bank from outside investments. Tony isn't just asking his dad to write a check everytime he wants to sign a wrestler. The guy is worth over $1B. He isn't begging for cash. It isn't like the guy came from the poor house and his dad is bailing him out.


No one knows how much he's worth. There are various estimates. 

However if he's worth the amount you say, why did Shahid lay down the initial 1-200 million investment for AEW and not Tony himself?


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Usually I'd agree with you (I've witnessed it myself heaps of times) but in AEW's circumstance it really isn't giving them a boost. If you look at the September 2nd, 2020 ratings they went unopposed to NXT and had 928,000 people watching, on September 1st, 2021 they had 1.047 million people watching for a gain of just over a hundred thousand people.
> 
> Doesn't sound too bad but in that time AEW has signed Miro, Sting, Andrade, Malakai Black, CM Punk, Christian Cage, Paul Wight, Mark Henry, PAC (Returned), Shaq, Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg and I'm sure I'm missing a few. Tens of millions of dollars spent for an increase of just a hundred thousand and some change. Oof.
> 
> ...


You forgot to mention that Tony spent in excess of 8 figures (number not known) on a video game which hasn't paid off yet. 

I agree on Punk, I highly doubt they've made 8 figures just on merch from Punk in a week. I think it's Tony working the hype machine in to overdrive.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

The Legit DMD said:


> *Tony Khan could keep this company alive without a television deal at all, but that's not ideal. As a businessman, you don't want to operate in the red, because it's not a good look. If they continue this momentum and average around 1.2 million viewers from here on out, they should get a much better TV deal and offset the massive salary costs, but for now, especially with Tony Khan putting at least 10 million of his own dollars into the video game, they will be operating out of the red for quite a while.*


maybe he isn’t a businessman / maybe he’s a hobbyist - isn’t that at the centre of the money mark comments?

let the guy do his thing, book it and roll with it - in the end, we get to see Punk and Danielson vs guys like Omega in a 10k seater

who cares if they make profit - not me


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe he isn’t a businessman / maybe he’s a hobbyist - isn’t that at the centre of the money mark comments?
> 
> let the guy do his thing, book it and roll with it - in the end, we get to see Punk and Danielson vs guys like Omega in a 10k seater
> 
> who cares if they make profit - not me


i think for the health of the industry, i hope they make profit. we need them to stick around.

TNA is not an alternative to WWE and their existence for at least 7 years has not done anything for the health of Pro-wrestling. they are an indy at this point. NWA will never do anything significant.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They will bid for the built in fanbase but will come to the conclusion that the product won't grow its ratings past the million or so no matter what they do. I think doubling their current deal is pretty hopeful but maybe I'm wrong.
> 
> 5 dollars x 200,000 shirts is a million bucks flat but then you have to pay the tax man as well. Your million dollars is probably closer to 700,000 - 750,000 at that point which is still awesome but not quite the millions and millions AEW fans think Punk brought to the company with shirts.
> 
> And yeah, I'd guarantee that Punk, Bryan and probably the other big stars like Jericho have some kind of bonus in their contract for PPV's as well. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if Punk will see something like 2-5% of the total profits from every PPV he appears on and I wouldn't be surprised if Bryan had that same deal.


To put it in to perspective Moxley gets paid 6 million per year. Jericho said when he signed that he was getting Lesnar money (Lesnar was on around 12 mil in WWE) If Big Show and Christian are some of the highest earners they must be on 8 to 12 mil. Punk and Danielson will be up there too. 

All members of staff get travel and accommodation paid for them. So now they're back on the road again, expenses are going to go through the roof. 

The lowest paid workers for the company earn 300k and get other benefits.


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> maybe he isn’t a businessman / maybe he’s a hobbyist - isn’t that at the centre of the money mark comments?


Dixie's daddy bought her a promotion so she could be on TV and enjoy being a rat around the boys. 

It takes all sorts. I'm just glad TK's delivered a fresh, exciting, hot product - at a time when wrestling really needed it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Geert Wilders said:


> i think for the health of the industry, i hope they make profit. we need them to stick around.
> 
> TNA is not an alternative to WWE and their existence for at least 7 years has not done anything for the health of Pro-wrestling. they are an indy at this point. NWA will never do anything significant.


i mean, i think they’ll make profit on day when its tax beneficial

but if they don’t they are not going away

kinda weird to speculate about something we’ll never know since their books are closed


----------



## Oiky (Oct 23, 2014)

the_flock said:


> No his Dad did.


Dough is still in the family

Still came from a background where he could end up making the investments he did a lot quicker than the average joe


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> WWE and AEW aren't the same. Compare the two:
> 
> WWE has mainstream appeal, you see the WWE on major talk shows, the WWE has access to some of the biggest celebrities in the world, The Rock will likely come in for a run on Smackdown in the next year or two which is no doubt worth tens of millions of dollars to a network. WWE has most of the major wrestling stars and a proven track record of creating some of the biggest stars in wrestling. Also, to a television network they'd take the guy with a solid 40 years of running wrestling and his staff.
> 
> AEW has niche appeal, you don't see it on any mainstream media, they don't really get celebrities on The Rock's level instead using older celebs, they've got two major wrestling stars and are unlikely to get anymore until WWE releases someone again. Tony has 2 years experience running wrestling and is very much learning on the job as is his staff.


There's that. And likely a reason AEW wouldn't get close to WWE's TV fees. But that does not mean they can't double them or take more than 100 million. Still a huge achievement. 

But then AEW is comparable to WWF in 1986 or NWA in 1987. Minus the wrestling boom. A fresh entity amongst the masses that will take several more years to peak in terms of public awareness. Tie-in's come with time. 

Still, it's mostly about offering decent demo content at a relatively cheap price. They might not have deals with The Rock and John Cena. They do have enough recognisable faces on a regular appearance basis: Punk, Danielson, Sting, Jericho, Wight, Moxley. 

In reality WWE doesn't get celebrities on The Rock's level. Apart from Dwayne. They never really have. He's a huge boon for them. 

It could be argued AEW's freshness has benefits. WWE has a lot of baggage from things like Snuka, Benoit, steroid trials, past exploits. AEW comes with a modern shine and is all woke and political correctness. Khan's new yet he might have earned his stripes by producing a very aesthetically up to date product and navigating through a pandemic that shut everything else down. In all honesty it can work the other way. It's a start up environment, where relatively young entrepreneurs are leaving Wall Street to work on their own ventures. Being fresh faced and hungry has always been appreciated - that's how Vince got deals with MTV and NBC in the 80's. Having a degree in finance from University of Illinois and background with Jaguars and Fulham won't hurt.


----------



## ajmaf625 (Dec 7, 2007)

Smark1995 said:


> What are they thinking when they signed Big Show and Christian Cage to huge contracts?
> It's just a very stupid and unwise decision that won't end well at all!


AEW diehards don't want to admit that its similar to WCW picking up these "big stars" to help out meanwhile they cost a bunch of money and aren't moving the needle


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i mean, i think they’ll make profit on day when its tax beneficial
> 
> but if they don’t they are not going away
> 
> kinda weird to speculate about something we’ll never know since their books are closed


they may not go away, but they will be sold. at the end of the day, tony khan is a businessman. and I think if AEW were to be a true giant in pro-wrestling, TK and SK funding the company is the best thing.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

I just want to make sure - I never put any stock in Uncle Dave and what he writes / and it seems a lot of AEW ’critics’ usually agrees with me that he is full of shit

wanna make sure we all think he’s still full of shit / seems a little an about-face in this thread


----------



## Joe Gill (Jun 29, 2019)

the Khan families net worth grew by over 1 billion during the pandemic... Even if AEW lost 20 million a year it would take 50 years to lose 1 billion. TK is going in inherit his families wealth and is the biggest wrestling nerd on the planet. AEW isnt going anywhere. Worst case scenario is they start cutting their roster which isnt a bad thing if they let wrestlers like Spears, Brian Cage, Jannela, Stunt etc leave. Dont forget they have a video game coming out soon which will be a huge hit given the demographics of AEW fans.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Joe Gill said:


> the Khan families net worth grew by over 1 billion during the pandemic... Even if AEW lost 20 million a year it would take 50 years to lose 1 billion. TK is going in inherit his families wealth and is the biggest wrestling nerd on the planet. AEW isnt going anywhere. Worst case scenario is they start cutting their roster which isnt a bad thing if they let wrestlers like Spears, Brian Cage, Jannela, Stunt etc leave. Dont forget they have a video game coming out soon which will be a huge hit given the demographics of AEW fans.


Most peoples net worth grew during the pandemic. Stocks were on sale and the smart people bought them up and made money off them.

I'm not sure how successful the video game will be although I do think they'll make money off it.


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## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Most peoples net worth grew during the pandemic. Stocks were on sale and the smart people bought them up and made money off them.
> 
> I'm not sure how successful the video game will be although I do think they'll make money off it.


stock market still hasn't fully recovered. i made a decent profit, so far. don't know how "most" people's net worth grew, though.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Joe Gill said:


> the Khan families net worth grew by over 1 billion during the pandemic... Even if AEW lost 20 million a year it would take 50 years to lose 1 billion. TK is going in inherit his families wealth and is the biggest wrestling nerd on the planet. AEW isnt going anywhere. Worst case scenario is they start cutting their roster which isnt a bad thing if they let wrestlers like Spears, Brian Cage, Jannela, Stunt etc leave. Dont forget they have a video game coming out soon which will be a huge hit given the demographics of AEW fans.


If they lose 20 million per year, the promotion will be dead in 5 years.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Most peoples net worth grew during the pandemic. Stocks were on sale and the smart people bought them up and made money off them.
> 
> I'm not sure how successful the video game will be although I do think they'll make money off it.


TK spent 8 figures on the game. A lot of people have said the game will go down as a loss.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Geert Wilders said:


> stock market still hasn't fully recovered. i made a decent profit, so far. don't know how "most" people's net worth grew, though.


I should say most here in Australia I'm not familiar with the rest of the world so shouldn't talk out of turn. First you have the people who bought stocks when it crashed and made a tidy profit off it. Second, you have a whole heap of people who can't hit the clubs or expensive restaurants every week and blow their wage instead having to leave it in the bank.

I read Australians managed to collectively save something like 200 billion dollars during the pandemic.


----------



## Geert Wilders (Jan 18, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I should say most here in Australia I'm not familiar with the rest of the world so shouldn't talk out of turn. First you have the people who bought stocks when it crashed and made a tidy profit off it. Second, you have a whole heap of people who can't hit the clubs or expensive restaurants every week and blow their wage instead having to leave it in the bank.
> 
> I read Australians managed to collectively save something like 200 billion dollars during the pandemic.


thats impressive. Although not surprising, considering how your Government successfully managed the initial breakout. 

Rest of the world is a different discussion. A lot of people lost their jobs. A lot of businesses, especially family businesses, closed. Many outlets which deliver services, such as hair salons, closed. Many countries which rely on tourism are still fucked.


----------



## Seafort (Jun 5, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Usually I'd agree with you (I've witnessed it myself heaps of times) but in AEW's circumstance it really isn't giving them a boost. If you look at the September 2nd, 2020 ratings they went unopposed to NXT and had 928,000 people watching, on September 1st, 2021 they had 1.047 million people watching for a gain of just over a hundred thousand people.
> 
> Doesn't sound too bad but in that time AEW has signed Miro, Sting, Andrade, Malakai Black, CM Punk, Christian Cage, Paul Wight, Mark Henry, PAC (Returned), Shaq, Mike Tyson, Snoop Dogg and I'm sure I'm missing a few. Tens of millions of dollars spent for an increase of just a hundred thousand and some change. Oof.
> 
> ...


Monday Night RAW viewership
August 30, 2020: 2.1M
August 31, 2021: 1.9M 

RAW declined 200K year over year despite adding Lesnar and Becky back to the mix, and despite Cena being part of the mix.

WWE got their last big TV deal because they were able to get a temporary bump in viewership as negotiations were on going that made executives think that this was a great deal (and maybe it was for them). In AEW's case, if they can be at 1.047M a year from now or even two years from now they'll be in spectacular shape. Because almost everything else is in a state of decline.


----------



## TheDraw (Jun 27, 2019)

Smark1995 said:


> What are they thinking when they signed Big Show and Christian Cage to huge contracts?
> It's just a very stupid and unwise decision that won't end well at all!


I think Khan is hell bent on being the next Bischoff. Someone who breaks that barrier and beats the WWE at its own game. It probably didn't start like that but once he started gaining confidence in his product you could see him slowly start taking more and more shots and critiquing the WWE. 

I think he wants that bad. Even more than trying to make AEW the more profitable company. He's definitely a bigger mark for wrestling than Vince which can both be a good and bad bad thing but he definitely needs to learn to be a little bit more cold blooded in the future and get rid of the extra fat on the roster that nobody wants to see.

He's not gonna beat Vince having his company be a charity org for old veteran wrestler and Indy scrubs that should be wrestling in highschools.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

I don't get the hate Christian gets. He's a name and he's still a fantastic performer. He's a 5 tool player who can fit in anywhere on the card.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The XL 2 said:


> I don't get the hate Christian gets. He's a name and he's still a fantastic performer. He's a 5 tool player who can fit in anywhere on the card.


He's also almost 48 years old.

Wrestling is meant to be a young mans sport.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> He's also almost 48 years old.
> 
> Wrestling is meant to be a young mans sport.


So what? They're not building the company around him. He can still perform at a high level both as a promo and in the ring. No reason to think that he can't be a serviceable upper mid card guy who occasionally is slotted into the main event for the next 2-4 years.


----------



## Stylebender (Oct 12, 2019)

Id say get rid of Christian if he,s on a huge deal. He,s already done his gig and can fuck off to impact. Big Show whether he,s trash or not is q huge name that will catch the attention of lapsed and non fans.


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

MyMelody said:


> Do fans of other TV shows go onto forums and discuss and dissect who earns how much and how the ratings are compared to other TV shows?
> Just enjoy it or don’t. People are fucking weird.


Production cost for shows and cast changes due to contracts is big deal for other shows as well. Hell on the OG Power Rangers the Red, Black, and Yellow Rangers got recast because they asked for more money from the hit show


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

The XL 2 said:


> So what? They're not building the company around him. He can still perform at a high level both as a promo and in the ring. No reason to think that he can't be a serviceable upper mid card guy who occasionally is slotted into the main event for the next 2-4 years.


They kind of are treating him like a big deal. He just main evented AEW's biggest PPV of the year, he's the first guy to beat Kenny Omega in god knows how long, he's hanging out with Bryan Danielson and CM Punk who are the two biggest stars AEW has, Kenny had to have three guys run interference and cheat to beat him, he's only lost once in the 6 months he's been with AEW and that was the Kenny loss, won a World Title on TV etc.

You really want to see Christian wrestling at 52 years old? Christian is about 15 years past his prime at this point, the dude is out of retirement to wrestle full time in AEW again. It gives off the vibe that AEW is the place where the ex WWE guys go when Vince doesn't want them anymore and that's the last thing you want (Even if it is kind of true)


----------



## RapShepard (Jun 20, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I just want to make sure - I never put any stock in Uncle Dave and what he writes / and it seems a lot of AEW ’critics’ usually agrees with me that he is full of shit
> 
> wanna make sure we all think he’s still full of shit / seems a little an about-face in this thread


Meltzer is pretty spot on with his numbers and draw stuff. But him saying this about a company he's very congratulatory towards raises an eyebrow. It's like when Shannon Sharpe (HoF NFL player and big LeBron Stan) criticizes LeBron you know it's worth listening to.


----------



## The XL 2 (Sep 13, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They kind of are treating him like a big deal. He just main evented AEW's biggest PPV of the year, he's the first guy to beat Kenny Omega in god knows how long, he's hanging out with Bryan Danielson and CM Punk who are the two biggest stars AEW has, Kenny had to have three guys run interference and cheat to beat him, he's only lost once in the 6 months he's been with AEW and that was the Kenny loss, won a World Title on TV etc.
> 
> You really want to see Christian wrestling at 52 years old? Christian is about 15 years past his prime at this point, the dude is out of retirement to wrestle full time in AEW again. It gives off the vibe that AEW is the place where the ex WWE guys go when Vince doesn't want them anymore and that's the last thing you want (Even if it is kind of true)


If Christian was broken down I'd agree with you, but he's in excellent physical condition and can still talk and work in the ring. He's doing a lot better than Jericho or Paul Wight, that's for sure. I wouldn't be shocked if he had more in the tank than Punk either.


----------



## yeahright2 (Feb 11, 2011)

A PG Attitude said:


> Punk already paid for his contract in T-shirt sales and PPV buys. The next rights deal will be much bigger than the current one and the Khans are filthy rich. This is a non-story.


No he didn´t. Anyone saying that is bending the facts to fit a certain narrative. Now, I believe that if you divide the salary with his dates then the extra PPV buys and merch sales is more than enough to cover for his appearances so far, but they´re not paying a divident of several million just yet.


----------



## Jericolcaholic (Jul 26, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> He's also almost 48 years old.
> 
> Wrestling is meant to be a young mans sport.


Since when?
Did bruno, hogan, flair, funk, sting, or any other huge star resign before 48 without injury reasons?
I didn't hear anyone complaining about evolution.


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

the_flock said:


> To put it in to perspective Moxley gets paid 6 million per year. Jericho said when he signed that he was getting Lesnar money (Lesnar was on around 12 mil in WWE) If Big Show and Christian are some of the highest earners they must be on 8 to 12 mil. Punk and Danielson will be up there too.
> 
> All members of staff get travel and accommodation paid for them. So now they're back on the road again, expenses are going to go through the roof.
> 
> The lowest paid workers for the company earn 300k and get other benefits.


There is no way that Moxley earns $6 million a year. Jericho, same thing. I also don't believe that both Wight and Christian are getting anywhere near $8 million a year. Maxing out just these four contracts, is about 1/3 of total expenditures. As you say, now adding Danielson and Punk for the same amount (or more) and then you're talking, at least, half of your costs being salary related. It's just simply impossible to believe that. We're talking NFL, NBA, MLB money here and pro-wrestling isn't even in the same stratosphere as the major sports, in terms of profit and sustainability. Math and logic tells you they should already be out of business with that model.

Not everyone gets to have travel and accommodation paid. Yes, the EVP's and high-end talent of course, but can you honestly say that the "boards favorites to hate" like Kiss, Janella, Luther, etc. are being 100% reimbursed for road expenses? No, probably not.

We don't know what the minimum base-pay salary is, but as someone said above, a lot of talent are on a pay-per appearance contract and that would include a great majority of the roster near the bottom of the priority flag-pole. I do think I remembering reading when AEW launched, that the lowest paid was about $50,000 a year and again, that's the majority of those priority flag-pole talents, if they are/were not signed as pay-per appearance already.

I'm not denying that there has to be a cash-crunch right now and for the foreseeable short-term future, but with the uptick in almost all aspects of the company going forward, from this moment, I don't see money being an issue. However, if the 2024 TV contracts are not at least doubled, or tripled per year, we can all look back and say that this time in history, 2021, was a gigantic gamble that did not pay off.

Until then, everything is speculative at best and rumor at worst.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jericolcaholic said:


> Since when?
> Did bruno, hogan, flair, funk, sting, or any other huge star resign before 48 without injury reasons?
> I didn't hear anyone complaining about evolution.


Nah but many promoters moved them on due to age. The only one who was really headlining events regularly and treated like a top star at close to the age of 50 was Hogan and that was mainly because the heel turned added years onto his career. 

Of course these guys did work smaller shows as headline acts in their fifties or even their sixties but the promotions that made them famous had moved onto younger stars.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Garty said:


> There is no way that Moxley earns $6 million a year. Jericho, same thing. I also don't believe that both Wight and Christian are getting anywhere near $8 million a year.


To estimate I could see Moxley getting 3 million a year because he was the first major in his prime star that Tony signed and Tony desperately needed someone like Mox because Jericho wasn't going to be enough. Moxley gave up his WWE gig for it presumably, untested promotion and he wouldn't have known how successful it'd be which leads to more money generally.

Jericho I could see making more than Moxley because he is more famous and was without question the first big star Tony did sign with mainstream appeal. Maybe 4-5 million a year for Jericho? Wouldn't be too surprised at 6 million though remember Jericho said this was the best deal of his career and the most money he ever made. That includes multiple years as a main eventer in WWE and all the bonuses, merchandise etc that being up top brings.

Wight and Christian I think would probably be on closer to 750k - 1 mil a year.


----------



## Jericolcaholic (Jul 26, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Nah but many promoters moved them on due to age. The only one who was really headlining events regularly and treated like a top star at close to the age of 50 was Hogan and that was mainly because the heel turned added years onto his career.
> 
> Of course these guys did work smaller shows as headline acts in their fifties or even their sixties but the promotions that made them famous had moved onto younger stars.


So you are saying flair was not booked as a champion at 50?


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Garty said:


> There is no way that Moxley earns $6 million a year. Jericho, same thing. I also don't believe that both Wight and Christian are getting anywhere near $8 million a year. Maxing out just these four contracts, is about 1/3 of total expenditures. As you say, now adding Danielson and Punk for the same amount (or more) and then you're talking, at least, half of your costs being salary related. It's just simply impossible to believe that. We're talking NFL, NBA, MLB money here and pro-wrestling isn't even in the same stratosphere as the major sports, in terms of profit and sustainability. Math and logic tells you they should already be out of business with that model.
> 
> Not everyone gets to have travel and accommodation paid. Yes, the EVP's and high-end talent of course, but can you honestly say that the "boards favorites to hate" like Kiss, Janella, Luther, etc. are being 100% reimbursed for road expenses? No, probably not.
> 
> ...


Moxley is getting 6 million per year and that's from a few sites that are reporting it. 

The 300k base rate is also being reported elsewhere. A lot of the lower card guys have said they are getting 6 figures. 

Again it is reported in a few sites that all talent get travel and accommodation paid for.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Jericolcaholic said:


> So you are saying flair was not booked as a champion at 50?


He was, he had the belt in 99 for like 3 weeks and then a run in 2000 for like 3 days wasn't it? He was criticised heavily for it as well.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

This is obvious. You cannot keep signing these guys with name value on huge contracts with no real extra revenue coming and not see huge losses.

AEWs tv deal plus their 4 ppvs a year plus merch sales plus ticket sales wouldn't come close to breaking even on costs of salaries, tv production, not even close.

Guys like Christian, Bryan, Punk, Wight, Moxley, Jericho, Jr, Sting etc are on insane money I would guess right now.


----------



## the_flock (Nov 23, 2016)

Chip Chipperson said:


> To estimate I could see Moxley getting 3 million a year because he was the first major in his prime star that Tony signed and Tony desperately needed someone like Mox because Jericho wasn't going to be enough. Moxley gave up his WWE gig for it presumably, untested promotion and he wouldn't have known how successful it'd be which leads to more money generally.
> 
> Jericho I could see making more than Moxley because he is more famous and was without question the first big star Tony did sign with mainstream appeal. Maybe 4-5 million a year for Jericho? Wouldn't be too surprised at 6 million though remember Jericho said this was the best deal of his career and the most money he ever made. That includes multiple years as a main eventer in WWE and all the bonuses, merchandise etc that being up top brings.
> 
> Wight and Christian I think would probably be on closer to 750k - 1 mil a year.


Mox is getting over 6 million with travel and accommodation on top. It's reported on a number of sites. They said that when he signed he was the highest paid star in AEW. 

Jericho said he was getting Hogan money. We know Hogan earned approx 4 to 5 million per year in WCW.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Guys like Mox and Jericho are working anywhere from 30 and 35 shows per year. There will be a guaranteed number in that range. 

Strowman is charging $20,000 - $25,000 per date on the indie scene. 

So in my opinion you're looking at $750,000 + minimum of $1 million signing on fee/exclusive deal + royalties. Certainly for the absolute top names. It could work in reverse, such as not making a mimimum amount of dates (i.e injury) then it cuts backwards.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

DaSlacker said:


> Guys like Mox and Jericho are working anywhere from 30 and 35 shows per year. There will be a guaranteed number in that range.
> 
> Strowman is charging $20,000 - $25,000 per date on the indie scene.
> 
> So in my opinion you're looking at $750,000 + minimum of $1 million signing on fee/exclusive deal + royalties. Certainly for the absolute top names. It could work in reverse, such as not making a mimimum amount of dates (i.e injury) then it cuts backwards.


Its more. Jerichos base in WWE was circa $900-1 million yet he was blown away by AEW offer and didn't believe it was real meaning AEW wage is much much higher than last WWE one Chris Jericho Compares AEW Deal To An NHL Offer - eWrestlingNews.com


----------



## DammitChrist (Apr 3, 2016)

Smark1995 said:


> Punk and Bryan deserve their money but Big Show and Christian ... I don't think so


How does Christian Cage NOT deserve his (big) money?

He'a arguably one of the most under-appreciated, hard-workers over the past couple of decades in the wrestling industry.


----------



## Makish16 (Aug 31, 2016)

the_flock said:


> Mox is getting over 6 million with travel and accommodation on top. It's reported on a number of sites. They said that when he signed he was the highest paid star in AEW.
> 
> Jericho said he was getting Hogan money. We know Hogan earned approx 4 to 5 million per year in WCW.


Makes you wonder what punk and Bryan are getting, both are way above Mox and Jericho at this point in there careers

7 million for punk

5 million for Bryan with Lesnar type of dates booked 

Sent from my SM-T860 using Tapatalk


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

validreasoning said:


> Its more. Jerichos base in WWE was circa $900-1 million yet he was blown away by AEW offer and didn't believe it was real meaning AEW wage is much much higher than last WWE one Chris Jericho Compares AEW Deal To An NHL Offer - eWrestlingNews.com


Interestingly enough our pal @yeahright2 has commented on this article just 29 minutes ago, that's a funny coincidence.

A quick Google search results in the average NHL salary being 2.5 - 3.0 million dollars a year but some players are making much more obviously.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Its more. Jerichos base in WWE was circa $900-1 million yet he was blown away by AEW offer and didn't believe it was real meaning AEW wage is much much higher than last WWE one Chris Jericho Compares AEW Deal To An NHL Offer - eWrestlingNews.com


Hmm. I'm torn because Jericho has a tendency to BS. On the other hand he signed when wrestling contracts were peaking. With WWE he was averaging more dates even on his 2012 - 2018 part time schedule. So that needs factoring in. 

Hogan's pay was apparently 2 million dollars per annum between 1994 and 1996 for approx 25 dates. He then earned 8.5 million between 1998 and 1999 for 75 shows. Not sure what it all means but just throwing it out there for whoever wants to try figuring it out 😂.


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

At the end of the day, Khan is gambling 100 to 200 million dollars on a big day at the end of 2023. It might work out or it might bomb. Doubt he will go hungry anytime soon whatever happens. If in 2 years time WarnerMedia play hardball and Amazon, Netflix, Viacom, Dazn, Fox etc show no interest. It will be the quickest downsize in wrestling history. A lot of fun to see what happens and how WWE reacts, if at all.


----------



## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Very difficult to compare salaries from 20-25 years ago. Compare gates just. WM32 drew more ticket revenue than 17, 18, 19, 3 combined by nearly 2.

Goldberg was paid $4.65 million base in 1999 as one example. Thing which really stands out in WCW was how awful merch revenue was. $20,000 at best.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DammitChrist said:


> How does Christian Cage NOT deserve his (big) money?
> 
> He'a arguably one of the most under-appreciated, hard-workers over the past couple of decades in the wrestling industry.


Being under-appreciated and a hard worker doesn't mean you deserve big money, if that was the case every minimum wage worker around the world would be a millionaire.

I wouldn't give Christian big money because he's not that much of a draw. Simple. He joined TNA in his prime and was simply a solid main event option that kept things going until Kurt Angle arrived which is when he dropped to upper midcard and apart from a brief failed main event stint about a decade ago that's where he's remained for all of his career until Tony signed him and tried to make him a main event player again which has also failed.

I'm not shitting on Christian, I'm a fan of the guy and thought he was great about 15 years ago but he's not worth big money at all. I'd say even half a million dollars a year is probably too much for him.



Makish16 said:


> Makes you wonder what punk and Bryan are getting, both are way above Mox and Jericho at this point in there careers
> 
> 7 million for punk
> 
> ...


I'd say you're probably spot on for both Punk and Bryan but they'd have bonuses written in as well. Punk and Bryan would be getting a large cut of their merchandise, I'd say Punk probably saw a cut of those big Chicago attendances, I'd say they both get PPV bonuses as well, probably will get a cut of the video games, action figures etc plus the ability to go off and make money independently in NJPW, convention circuit, acting, MMA commentary etc.

I'd estimate with all bonuses included Punk will probably walk away with 10 million from AEW plus additional income from acting, conventions and MMA commentary. I don't know what he commands as an actor or MMA commentator but high profile wrestlers like him can make 40-50 grand just for a weekend signing autographs, taking photos and answering questions at a convention. Perhaps more at a legitimate pop culture convention instead of a standard wrestling convention.

Bryan I'd say with bonuses will probably walk with 6-7 million dollars a year from AEW plus he'll work additional dates for NJPW at approximately 15-20 thousand dollars a week, command the same as Punk would for conventions plus he'd no doubt get a massive cut of his NJPW merch and the business they do with him also.

With those numbers in place it kind of does seem that Tony is paying too much for these guys.


----------



## RubberbandGoat (Aug 9, 2016)

DaSlacker said:


> Guys like Mox and Jericho are working anywhere from 30 and 35 shows per year. There will be a guaranteed number in that range.
> 
> Strowman is charging $20,000 - $25,000 per date on the indie scene.
> 
> So in my opinion you're looking at $750,000 + minimum of $1 million signing on fee/exclusive deal + royalties. Certainly for the absolute top names. It could work in reverse, such as not making a mimimum amount of dates (i.e injury) then it cuts backwards.


Do indies even make 20,000?


----------



## RubberbandGoat (Aug 9, 2016)

DaSlacker said:


> At the end of the day, Khan is gambling 100 to 200 million dollars on a big day at the end of 2023. It might work out or it might bomb. Doubt he will go hungry anytime soon whatever happens. If in 2 years time WarnerMedia play hardball and Amazon, Netflix, Viacom, Dazn, Fox etc show no interest. It will be the quickest downsize in wrestling history. A lot of fun to see what happens and how WWE reacts, if at all.


Ha ha AEW will only go up. It’ll be fine


----------



## RubberbandGoat (Aug 9, 2016)

Makish16 said:


> Makes you wonder what punk and Bryan are getting, both are way above Mox and Jericho at this point in there careers
> 
> 7 million for punk
> 
> ...


They deserve it. Clearly people watch them and buy a ticket for them. They deserve those Millions


----------



## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Very difficult to compare salaries from 20-25 years ago. Compare gates just. WM32 drew more ticket revenue than 17, 18, 19, 3 combined by nearly 2.
> 
> Goldberg was paid $4.65 million base in 1999 as one example. Thing which really stands out in WCW was how awful merch revenue was. $20,000 at best.


That's true. WrestleMania is a bit of an anomaly though in terms of how big it has grown. That and the Saudi shows likely drawf anything else. It's like Christmas and New Year for the performer.

What I noticed with AEW is that outside of the EVPs and wrestler/backstage workers, they paid big (how much is the question) for Jericho and Moxley. PAC and Lucha Bros were on different deals for a while. Then LAX. Then Hager for the premiere. Apart from that it was mostly cheap as fuck wrestlers most had not really heard of or overlooked: Allin, MJF, Luchasaurus, Guevara, Private Party, Wardlow etc still working the indie scene between Dynamite. They likely paid more than usual due to WWE's strategy. The only new signings until that TV deal was Butcher, Blade, Reynolds, Silver, Billy Gunn's kids. More cheap and cheerful wrestlers. Archer, Brodie and Hardy came after the 200 million dollar deal went through. After the pandemic shut everything down and WWE did the first mass release. That's when they go on a signing spree starting with more inexpensive development esque talent: Angels, Vance, Hobbs, Acclaimed etc. The only big money would be on Punk, Danielson, Cole, Andrade, Wight and Christian.

WCW was always a weird business. I remember having to mail order the VHS PPVs and nWo shirt back in 1997-1998. Couldn't get them in shops despite being highly rated on TNT UK. They never even toured here again until 2000. It's like towards the end they tried to actually start making money off fans outside of USA.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

RubberbandGoat said:


> Do indies even make 20,000?


Some do, I tend to believe that Strowman's quote is his way of saying he doesn't want to wrestle anymore but he will for really good money. I don't think Strowman is worth that.

However, Ric Flair in 2009 was between 15-20 thousand an appearance and he got a whole heap of interest. Everyone from small indies in front of no crowds to big shows like the Hulkamania Tour and ROH picked him up for appearances.

One of my favourite videos is this one of Ric Flair in a local sports bar in front of no people:


----------



## AthleticGirth (Jul 25, 2020)

RubberbandGoat said:


> Do indies even make 20,000?


First independent Strowman's doing is 1st October in a match against EC3. Promoter's charging $10 to stream on Vimeo.

It's going to become clear pretty quickly whether it's viable for him to charge 20k+ per booking.


----------



## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Being under-appreciated and a hard worker doesn't mean you deserve big money, if that was the case every minimum wage worker around the world would be a millionaire.


I'm not sure you fully understand the meaning of the word "deserve".


----------



## Thanks12 (Dec 23, 2014)

People on here acting like they know how to run a successful wrestling business lol


----------



## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

reyfan said:


> Let's not forget they have guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janella on 6 figure contracts.


Doesn't janela run gcw? That's probably why


----------



## Christopher Near (Jan 16, 2019)

Thanks12 said:


> People on here acting like they know how to run a successful wrestling business lol


What do you think the point of this forum is


----------



## Art Vandaley (Jan 9, 2006)

Unless they're giving Christian his 04/05 Captain Charisma character and bringing back Tyson Tomko (or find a suitable replacement) then, as much as I'm a fan, I don't think Christian is worth a huge contract. Comedic arrogant heel Christian was the best.






Big Show and Mark Henry certainly aren't.

D'Bry and Punk are investments.

But imagine if they can't sign Wyatt because of the $$$ spent on Show and Henry?


----------



## Soul Rex (Nov 26, 2017)

lmao I predicted this fucking shit, they signed a bunch of ex WWE to generate buzz.

It worked, of course it worked, they are seen as a WWE direct competition, but at the end, its just a long bunch of signings that will cost them more money than they are producing.

That's the opposite of business efficiency. They may want to create their own starts and cut a big part of their roster, they have too many fucking wrestlers.


----------



## zorori (Jul 12, 2021)

fabi1982 said:


> And I really dont get thar „he can put more money in if he wants to“, at least over here in Germany this is not easily possible, especially with a private company like AEW is. You add money for the start but have to get a profit or private equaty money (so you have to give up parts of the compny), but you cant add your own money to it (you can as a private credit, you have to pay back in a reasonable time). If you just add money into a money losing company you are (at least in Germany) at risk to get caught for delaying filling of insolvency.
> 
> I am not so sure if it is similar in the US, but at least it shouldnt be that much different.


I think Germany might be the outlier there, in the UK you can put money into the company at any time. The company just owes you the money, so when the company is profitable you can take that instead of giving yourself a dividend.


----------



## AuthorOfPosts (Feb 9, 2020)

Tony doesn't care. He has his daddy's money.


----------



## Ucok (Sep 29, 2017)

zorori said:


> I think Germany might be the outlier there, in the UK you can put money into the company at any time. The company just owes you the money, so when the company is profitable you can take that instead of giving yourself a dividend.



Just like Manchester City with their "sponsors" money to avoid FFP


----------



## Art Vandaley (Jan 9, 2006)

AuthorOfPosts said:


> Tony doesn't care. He has his daddy's money.


I don't know, I get the impression he really wants to build a profitable company.


----------



## Hotdiggity11 (Aug 24, 2006)

Geert Wilders said:


> stock market still hasn't fully recovered. i made a decent profit, so far. don't know how "most" people's net worth grew, though.



Huh? Stock market is currently right around record highs on the DOW/NASDAQ/S&P. It's higher than it ever was in 2020. My portfolio has grown more this year than any year since 2009/10 when we started recovering from the Great Recession.





RubberbandGoat said:


> Do indies even make 20,000?



After normal expenses for putting on the show and paying all the other talent? I highly doubt it. Even if they did, the promoter would like to actually make a profit too and they are gambling pretty big on making money after paying for everything else.


----------



## Botchy SinCara (Apr 24, 2013)

It's a catch 22 you gotta spend money to make money ...they need the bigger stars to make buzz. They wouldn't go to far if they just stuck with the roster they had at the beginning 

Now I hope they are not paying guys like big show millions when he's not even doing that much on tv but its not my money


----------



## CenaBoy4Life (Jul 31, 2013)

Hopefully some of the old guys help score TV rights in other countries similar to how Sting was a big deal in getting TNA on Spike. They wanted a known face.

Maybe the Saudis will come running to Tony after he has most of the WWE main eventers from 2010-2019.


----------



## DUD (Feb 21, 2021)

The line that hits home the most is: "Dave says everyone at the mid-level and up thinks they belong in the main event."

This isn't a new cultural problem in wrestling. We all have heard the stories about the politicking in the 90's, the toxicity during the reign of Bella's and the absurd money some people such as Ryback and Chyna have asked for even there contracts are up.

Tony Khan does a really good job at alternating the main event on Dynamite every week. It's very rare you see the same act close the show on back-to-back weeks. 

Even with the show expansions, keeping everybody happy will be difficult which is why it's integral they utilise the open door policy to it's full potential.


----------



## Randy Lahey (Apr 14, 2014)

The live gate and merch more than pay for the big salaries of the newcomers. Plus 205K+ buys for their last PPV. 19K+ for the Ashe show. AEW is in better financial shape than they could possibly dream of. Plus, TK will likely cut some of the guys that aren’t on the show much if he really wanted to adhere to a talent budget


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Randy Lahey said:


> AEW is in better financial shape than they could possibly dream of.


But where do you gather such information? Isnt this purely YOU „thinking“ that this MIGHT be the case? Thats a typical AEW fan, someone on Twitter wrote something, so it must be true. Any evidence of your statement? Because you write „is in better financial shape“, so you:

1. have proof of that
2. you actually knew what they were aiming for
3. you either talked to Tony Khan or have access to AEW‘s bank account

Would be interesting to see whats true.


----------



## Kenny's Ghost (Nov 23, 2020)

validreasoning said:


> Very difficult to compare salaries from 20-25 years ago. Compare gates just. WM32 drew more ticket revenue than 17, 18, 19, 3 combined by nearly 2.
> 
> Goldberg was paid $4.65 million base in 1999 as one example. Thing which really stands out in WCW was how awful merch revenue was. $20,000 at best.


Do you have a link to the WCW merch revenue info? Just curious thanks. Or is it somewhere on Harrington's site I missed? Or should I go through the Observers/Torch?


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Randy Lahey said:


> The live gate and merch more than pay for the big salaries of the newcomers. Plus 205K+ buys for their last PPV. 19K+ for the Ashe show. AEW is in better financial shape than they could possibly dream of. Plus, TK will likely cut some of the guys that aren’t on the show much if he really wanted to adhere to a talent budget


A few words for you:

Overhead, taxes, incentives.


----------



## zodiacF5 (Apr 3, 2017)

3venflow said:


> To be honest, based on what I've seen/read, I think Mark Henry justifies his employment more than Paul Wight so far. Henry is doing seminars backstage with young guys to help them improve and is at the front of the community outreach program. Wight is commentating on Elevation and has done one squash match. Not sure if he's as active with the young guys backstage, I'd hope so.
> 
> On the main topic, Khan is so ridiculously wealthy that even if AEW lost $2m in a year, it's virtually nothing for him. As a businessman, profitability will be on his agenda though, so there will be a method behind allowing the payroll to skyrocket. A combination of live event sales and expectations regarding their next TV deal are probably part of that. After doing a 0.53 demo on Dynamite, if Khan was to renegotiate the TV deal right now, he could expect a massive increase. WWE RAW, which Dynamite just beat, is getting $265m per year while Dynamite is getting $43.75m per year. Even if they increased it to $100m per year, that'd swallow up the payroll increases.


People with a lot of money doesn't like to lost money. If AEW keep losing money than it doesn't surprise me if the Khan decided to pull the plug on AEW


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

zodiacF5 said:


> People with a lot of money doesn't like to lost money. If AEW keep losing money than it doesn't surprise me if the Khan decided to pull the plug on AEW


Kids this is why you don't do drugs


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

fabi1982 said:


> But where do you gather such information? Isnt this purely YOU „thinking“ that this MIGHT be the case? Thats a typical AEW fan, someone on Twitter wrote something, so it must be true. Any evidence of your statement? Because you write „is in better financial shape“, so you:
> 
> 1. have proof of that
> 2. you actually knew what they were aiming for
> ...


And do you have proof that the opposite is true instead?


----------



## rbl85 (Nov 21, 2017)

Randy Lahey said:


> The live gate and merch more than pay for the big salaries of the newcomers. Plus 205K+ buys for their last PPV. 19K+ for the Ashe show. AEW is in better financial shape than they could possibly dream of. Plus, *TK will likely cut some of the guys that aren’t on the show much* if he really wanted to adhere to a talent budget


He's not going to cut them because some contracts are coming to an end pretty soon.


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

rbl85 said:


> Kids this is why you don't do drugs


Why are you trying to insult him? His view is fine and actually true...


----------



## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

Garty said:


> And do you have proof that the opposite is true instead?


This isn't how this works. You make a claim, you back it up. It's not our task to disprove. Russel's Teapot ring a bell?


----------



## Garty (Jul 29, 2007)

Kopros_The_Great said:


> This isn't how this works. You make a claim, you back it up. It's not our task to find contrary proof. Russel's Teapot ring a bell?


Umm, there are a lot of people here that are making the claim that every new ex-WWE hire has been paid more than the last ex-WWE hire. No one knows anything. Unless there is someone who has physically seen and factually reported what any given talent makes, this is all 100% speculation... on both sides.

Have Punk and Danielson come at a higher cost? Of course, but let's not get carried away with the guessing game of "how much is 'X' making per-year, compared to how much is 'Y' making per-year". As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no way that these guys are making NFL, MLB and/or NBA money via wrestling. It's an unrealistic theory.


----------



## MC (May 30, 2017)

Costs are high, naturally. And I do think that guys like Big Show are on a wage that doesn't necessarily match what they bring to AEW as well. These are things that can be cut out easily, but that's up to Tony Khan. Also Tony Khan has said* that they would be on target to making an annual profit if it wasn't for the Game costs. So I think it's safe to assume that everything else is in the green, meaning they are gaining more than spending, which is a lot on both accounts.

*Source via PWInsider


----------



## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Renegadetwin said:


> Punk's contract has already paid for itself after All out


If that's true then he's an idiot who has taken massive unders to join AEW. Think about it, if your boss could make your years income after just a month of you working wouldn't you ask for more money? That means your employer will likely make 11 times more than what he's paying you.

I guarantee that Tony was just overhyping things to build excitement.


----------



## La Parka (Oct 28, 2008)

I doubt Tony Khan or his family care about making a profit. Why would they?

They have more money than they and their family could spend for generations.

As much as I dislike a lot of what AEW does, the khans are exactly what wrestling needs. A billionaire who is willing to heavily invest into the business.


----------



## fabi1982 (Jun 28, 2011)

Garty said:


> And do you have proof that the opposite is true instead?


Do I have to? Where did I state the oposite? And wouldnt Jericho tweeted about it, if this is in any way even slightly true?


----------



## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

WarnerMedia/Turner Sports is paying BILLIONS for the NBA, NCAA and now the NHL (as well as other things). They are not just going to throw huge amounts of money at an upstart wrestling company.

Khan has to get his focus off of WWE, stop letting the Indy darlings that are his EVP's run the show like an Indy show and work to make this company attractive. The honeymoon period will be over soon and Turner (and other prospective TV rights suitors) need to see that this company has the ability to grow. Also, he cannot promise all of the "freedom" that all these disgruntled ex-WWE'ers are seeking. There needs to be defined roles and talent needs to know they need to develop accordingly to be elevated to the main event rather than feeling entitled because they main evented in backyards, gymnasiums, and armories!

Many are going "ga-ga" over signing Punk and Danielson. However, the bump in ratings was not very significant and have shown (after Punk's arrival) to dwindle back down close to their normal range. Punk and Bryan will be the 2 biggest names they will sign for the foreseeable future. Both, as shown in WWE, will only take you but so far after the "OMG" wears off in a couple of weeks.

NOW, they have to learn how to build for a sustainable future. If they want to enhance their product, they have to find a way to build real stars! Kenny Omega is not it! Cody had potential, but he is not it. The Young Bucks get high praise for their gymnastics, but they do not do anything to elevate the company as a whole! Sorry, but Darby Allin is not going to appeal beyond the AEW and hardcore Indy faithful!

AEW has its work cut out for them and they need to start now with sorting things out.


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## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

Garty said:


> Umm, there are a lot of people here that are making the claim that every new ex-WWE hire has been paid more than the last ex-WWE hire. No one knows anything. Unless there is someone who has physically seen and factually reported what any given talent makes, this is all 100% speculation... on both sides.
> 
> Have Punk and Danielson come at a higher cost? Of course, but let's not get carried away with the guessing game of "how much is 'X' making per-year, compared to how much is 'Y' making per-year". As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no way that these guys are making NFL, MLB and/or NBA money via wrestling. It's an unrealistic theory.


Absolutely. It's all speculation and people pulling numbers out their asses.
Still, it's not my task to disprove someone's claim, it's theirs to prove it. That's what the teapot is about.


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## Jericolcaholic (Jul 26, 2021)

cai1981 said:


> WarnerMedia/Turner Sports is paying BILLIONS for the NBA, NCAA and now the NHL (as well as. They are not just going to throw huge amounts of money at an upstart wrestling company.
> 
> Khan has to get his focus off of WWE, stop letting the Indy darlings that are his EVP's run the show like an Indy show and work to make this company attractive. The honeymoon period will be over soon and Turner (and other prospective TV rights suitors) need to see that this company has the ability to grow. Also, he cannot promise all of the "freedom" that all these disgruntled ex-WWE'ers are seeking. There needs to be defined roles and talent needs to know they need to develop accordingly to be elevated to the main event rather than feeling entitled because they main evented in backyards, gymnasiums, and armories!
> 
> ...


Bullshit!


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## cai1981 (Oct 2, 2016)

Jericolcaholic said:


> Bullshit!


LOL...its easy to get caught up in the emotional high they want you to be on, but reality will set in and very soon! Then, we will see what BS really is!


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

So many financial advisors  










Lads, I need some help with my personal budget too 😅😭


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## Kopros_The_Great (Jun 26, 2014)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> So many financial advisors
> 
> View attachment 108223
> 
> ...


That's easy. Just gimme all your monies.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Kopros_The_Great said:


> That's easy. Just gimme all your monies.


i will tell you the same thing i tell the person who takes all my monies now

’no dear, there isn’t any more’


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## Peerless (Aug 28, 2014)

Mark Henry, Christian, and Big Show do not make 8-12M a year wtf am I reading?!

They likely make less than 2M each. These guys weren't in demand by WWE. Khan is a complete idiot if he paid them more.

I believe Cody talked about the salary scales once. It's a 4 tiered system. The truth is no one probably makes more than 3M a year aside from Moxley, Jericho, Bryan, and CM Punk. The EVP's and Sting probably make a little under that based on the tier system. Reigns is the biggest full time wrestler today and he probably isn't even making 5M a year at this point.


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## zodiacF5 (Apr 3, 2017)

cai1981 said:


> WarnerMedia/Turner Sports is paying BILLIONS for the NBA, NCAA and now the NHL (as well as other things). They are not just going to throw huge amounts of money at an upstart wrestling company.
> 
> Khan has to get his focus off of WWE, stop letting the Indy darlings that are his EVP's run the show like an Indy show and work to make this company attractive. The honeymoon period will be over soon and Turner (and other prospective TV rights suitors) need to see that this company has the ability to grow. Also, he cannot promise all of the "freedom" that all these disgruntled ex-WWE'ers are seeking. There needs to be defined roles and talent needs to know they need to develop accordingly to be elevated to the main event rather than feeling entitled because they main evented in backyards, gymnasiums, and armories!
> 
> ...


100% agree with you


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## Not Lying (Sep 9, 2013)

Garty said:


> Umm, there are a lot of people here that are making the claim that every new ex-WWE hire has been paid more than the last ex-WWE hire. No one knows anything. Unless there is someone who has physically seen and factually reported what any given talent makes, this is all 100% speculation... on both sides.
> 
> Have Punk and Danielson come at a higher cost? Of course, but let's not get carried away with the guessing game of "how much is 'X' making per-year, compared to how much is 'Y' making per-year". As I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no way that these guys are making NFL, MLB and/or NBA money via wrestling. It's an unrealistic theory.


No No No, you don’t get it.
Everyone here is an expert on costs and making AEW look bad, but don’t you dare assume anything positive about the company! If you do you have to back it up with factual sources. 
On costs, however, you can talk straight out of your ass and paint whatever image you want.


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

The Definition of Technician said:


> No No No, you don’t get it.
> Everyone here is an expert on costs and making AEW look bad, but don’t you dare assume anything positive about the company! If you do you have to back it up with factual sources.
> On costs, however, you can talk straight out of your ass and paint whatever image you want.


Costs aren't that difficult to estimate. We have 20+ years of WWE accounts to look back on and compare for one. We know how much AEWs tv deal is worth, we can estimate to very close how much they bringing in on ppv, take a guess at merch, be fairly close on ticket sales etc.

We also have fair idea how much people were making in WWE, we can make rough estimate on cost of production on the road (it was ~$500,000 per episode for TNA a decade ago straight from Dixie and thats probably underestimate as it costs about $1m to tape each episode of Raw and SD Dixie Carter on TV on the road, changes to the product -


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

validreasoning said:


> Costs aren't that difficult to estimate. We have 20+ years of WWE accounts to look back on and compare for one. We know how much AEWs tv deal is worth, we can estimate to very close how much they bringing in on ppv, take a guess at merch, be fairly close on ticket sales etc.
> 
> We also have fair idea how much people were making in WWE, we can make rough estimate on cost of production on the road (it was ~$500,000 per episode for TNA a decade ago straight from Dixie and thats probably underestimate as it costs about $1m to tape each episode of Raw and SD Dixie Carter on TV on the road, changes to the product -


and what did you conclude and can you share your excel sheet?


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## 10gizzle (Oct 11, 2019)

Nobody here knows piss about anything. (no offence)

TK should and will keep spending. Reinvesting every dollar made. Sign every star FA. Brand name and notoriety is far more valuable than measly profits.

They'll think about profits 5-10 years down the line, once AEW has been built into a global brand. This is how it works.


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## Arkham258 (Jan 30, 2015)

Kahn is ridiculously wealthy and smart, I think the company will do fine financially. AEW is a bigger deal than TNA ever was and is being run by smarter people than the ones who ran ECW and WCW into the ground.

As for Christian and Paul Wight, they are worth every penny. I know people hate hearing this, but former WWE stars DO add recognition and prestige to AEW. Hell, why do you think Jericho going there was such a big deal? And who was the next big debut? Moxley. I don't like WWE, but I won't deny the name value and recognition that their people bring. AEW is only two years old, then need stars like that. In five to ten years, they'll have their own HUGE stars that they are already building up now like The Hangman, Darby, Jungle Boy, Cassidy, DMD, etc, etc. Plus, Wight and Cage are veterans...surrounded by young guys who can learn from their experience. Veterans with experience as big time players in front of big audiences


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

Arkham258 said:


> As for Christian and Paul Wight, they are worth every penny. I know people hate hearing this, but former WWE stars DO add recognition and prestige to AEW. Hell, why do you think Jericho going there was such a big deal? And who was the next big debut? Moxley. I don't like WWE, but I won't deny the name value and recognition that their people bring. AEW is only two years old, then need stars like that. In five to ten years, they'll have their own HUGE stars that they are already building up now like The Hangman, Darby, Jungle Boy, Cassidy, DMD, etc, etc. Plus, Wight and Cage are veterans...surrounded by young guys who can learn from their experience. Veterans with experience as big time players in front of big audiences


Former WWE stars do add recognition but how many do you need? AEW has something like 40 ex WWE employees on their roster.

If it was just Punk, Bryan, Jericho, Moxley and a few other lower end guys like Cole, Rhodes, Malakai and Andrade that might be fine but we are legitimately at a point where the majority of the last PPV featured ex WWE guys beating AEW homegrown guys with one of the greatest WWE announcers of all time calling the matches.


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## SeekingTheTruth (Sep 15, 2021)

They really should cut some dead weight. But Punk has already paid for his contract with the merch that has been sold, Bryan will do the same.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

SeekingTheTruth said:


> They really should cut some dead weight. But Punk has already paid for his contract with the merch that has been sold, Bryan will do the same.


They've made 6-7 million plus bonuses on merch already? Damn.


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## SeekingTheTruth (Sep 15, 2021)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've made 6-7 million plus bonuses on merch already? Damn.


Not sure of the numbers but I would say that Punk has already paid for his contract


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## validreasoning (Jul 4, 2012)

Chip Chipperson said:


> They've made 6-7 million plus bonuses on merch already? Damn.


AEW don't even run their own merch department, that's pro wrestling tees so probably only 50% of merch sales they receive if that because costs for merch is very large. If you sell $5m in venue merch the profits before tax are about $2.5m, costs even higher for online. 

WWE for the 2nd quarter 2019 only made just over $7 million from venue merch thats running 75 shows (European tour) including Wrestlemania 35..

Second quarter 2020 WWE set record online sales with 215,000 orders (far exceeding any previous number) and $12.6 million


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

What criteria do you need to get the 'ex WWE employee' to 40?

Blink and you'll miss them (Kazarian, Cabana Archer, Barretta, Callis, Conti) 

Worked there over 30 years ago (Schiavone, Blanchard) 

A couple of ring announcers (Brandi, Roberts) 

Those had a long run the old Turner Stations (Sting, Arn, JR). 

Evaluating a wrestler according to WWE employment history says more about the person than the talent. And their viewing ties to that company. Likely because it was the biggest show in their town. 

To me Wight, Jericho, Guerrero Jr, Dustin Rhodes were always WCW guys. Taz was always a ECW guy too. Many others are wrestlers I consider non McMahon guys due to their roots or that they left and did their own thing. It's just personal perception. 

AEW is meant to be a mouth watering roster of industry names. It doesn't really matter where from, in my opinion.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaSlacker said:


> What criteria do you need to get the 'ex WWE employee' to 40?


I simply class it as ex WWE employee...meaning they were contracted by WWE


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## DaSlacker (Feb 9, 2020)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I simply class it as ex WWE employee...meaning they were contracted by WWE


Fair enough. Though considering that company had the run of the industry after March 2001. Then set up their own development system(s) . Then used the main development spinoff to eat into the ROH/Alternative model, whilst signing anyone who found success in Impact Wrestling. 

It's like starting a new, competitive sports team and questioning why a lot of the players had been contracted to a team in the long established top assoication/franchise.


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

DaSlacker said:


> Fair enough. Though considering that company had the run of the industry after March 2001. Then set up their own development system(s) . Then used the main development spinoff to eat into the ROH/Alternative model, whilst signing anyone who found success in Impact Wrestling.
> 
> It's like starting a new, competitive sports team and questioning why a lot of the players had been contracted to a team in the long established top assoication/franchise.


Yeah but there are plenty of different companies so using an English Football example it'd be like say...Queens Park Rangers signing a couple of Manchester City reserves and then recruiting a bunch of guys in their late thirties who were killer players 10-15 years ago for championship winning sides.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> Yeah but there are plenty of different companies so using an English Football example it'd be like say...Queens Park Rangers signing a couple of Manchester City reserves and then recruiting a bunch of guys in their late thirties who were killer players 10-15 years ago for championship winning sides.


bad example

signing the hot young gun reserve from a bigger team coupled with the cheaper wily veteran signing is almost a football trope

happens all the time

rugby too actually - especially at the smaller teams


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## Chip Chipperson (Jun 29, 2019)

LifeInCattleClass said:


> bad example
> 
> signing the hot young gun reserve from a bigger team coupled with the cheaper wily veteran signing is almost a football trope
> 
> ...


I mean veterans that are way past it though. Like for example, if there was a similar situation to CM Punk, a guy who dominated the EPL for years and years, got super famous, went away for 7 years due to injuries, lack of passion etc and then returned he probably wouldn't return to the EPL he'd instead return to League 1 or 2 in England or be playing in the Middle East, Australia, United States etc.

It's the same with every sport really, our domestic Basketball competition gets the occasional mid tier ex NBA player in their late thirties coming in for a final year or two. Also, having the best Rugby League competition in the world many of our Rugby League players go off to Canada, England, France or the United States when our teams here no longer have use for them.

AEW I think is the wrestling equivalent of that. When WWE doesn't want a guy or don't want to pay out the ass for a guy AEW swoops in with big money and signs them.


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## LifeInCattleClass (Dec 21, 2010)

Chip Chipperson said:


> I mean veterans that are way past it though. Like for example, if there was a similar situation to CM Punk, a guy who dominated the EPL for years and years, got super famous, went away for 7 years due to injuries, lack of passion etc and then returned he probably wouldn't return to the EPL he'd instead return to League 1 or 2 in England or be playing in the Middle East, Australia, United States etc.
> 
> It's the same with every sport really, our domestic Basketball competition gets the occasional mid tier ex NBA player in their late thirties coming in for a final year or two. Also, having the best Rugby League competition in the world many of our Rugby League players go off to Canada, England, France or the United States when our teams here no longer have use for them.
> 
> AEW I think is the wrestling equivalent of that. When WWE doesn't want a guy or don't want to pay out the ass for a guy AEW swoops in with big money and signs them.


yeah, but matching that veteran with fresh indie talent is great - cause they got no developmental or ‘house style’

the kids are basically learning and getting the rub from these vets live

i like the mix


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