# AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!



## OldPsychology

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*

They need to beat NXT to be seen as competitive to WWE, they can't lose to developmental.

They need to cater to casuals, to the 10 million people which is the least of the total Market and not cater to a niche fanatic market that's capped at 1.5 million people which WWE is catering to, of which will never stop watching as long as the term "wrestling" is in the name.


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## rbl85

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*



OldPsychology said:


> They need to beat NXT to be seen as competitive to WWE, they can't lose to developmental.
> 
> They need to cater to casuals, *to the 10 million people which is the least of the total Market* and not cater to a niche fanatic market that's capped at 1.5 million people which WWE is catering to, of which will never stop watching as long as the term "wrestling" is in the name.



LOL


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## validreasoning

OldPsychology said:


> They need to beat NXT to be seen as competitive to WWE, they can't lose to developmental.
> 
> They need to cater to casuals, to the 10 million people which is the least of the total Market and not cater to a niche fanatic market that's capped at 1.5 million people which WWE is catering to, of which will never stop watching as long as the term "wrestling" is in the name.


By doing what.

Outline a plan of action that would result in AEW or WWE indeed getting 10 million watching in 2019 on cable.

That's not far off how many watched the college championship basketball game on TBS in 2018 which is just a tiny bit more popular than wrestling and gets just a bit more media coverage and marketing..when I say a bit I mean light-years more


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## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*



Beatles123 said:


> Here, Go nuts. Talk about PPV Buy Rates, Ratings and other general concerns here. This should keep everyone satisfied.


Lmao is this your attempt to rid the general thread of numbers talk


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## FITZ

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*



OldPsychology said:


> They need to beat NXT to be seen as competitive to WWE, they can't lose to developmental.
> 
> They need to cater to casuals, to the 10 million people which is the least of the total Market and not cater to a niche fanatic market that's capped at 1.5 million people which WWE is catering to, of which will never stop watching as long as the term "wrestling" is in the name.


Nothing om cable TV is attracting what you're talking about.


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## Chrome

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*



RapShepard said:


> Lmao is this your attempt to rid the general thread of numbers talk


Actually we're probably gonna get rid of the general discussion thread when TV starts, so Beatles has the right idea here.


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## Soul Rex

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*

Des midgets don't draw.


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## TAC41

*AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Lost 10,000 viewers between DON and All Out. These guys are screwed when they go to weekly TV. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Beatles123

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*



Soul Rex said:


> Des midgets don't draw.





RapShepard said:


> Lmao is this your attempt to rid the general thread of numbers talk





Chrome said:


> Actually we're probably gonna get rid of the general discussion thread when TV starts, so Beatles has the right idea here.


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## lesenfanteribles

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

It's still too early to get worried. They haven't even started yet. I'm pretty sure that they are aware of this and are doing the necessary adjustments needed to make a better show.


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## NXT Only

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



lesenfanteribles said:


> It's still too early to get worried. They haven't even started yet. I'm pretty sure that they are aware of this and are doing the necessary adjustments needed to make a better show.


There’s been too much of a gap between shows not to mention the gaps have only been filled with about 30 minutes of weekly content on YouTube. 

All 4 shows have been good-great and they’re in a prime spot TV wise.


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## deepelemblues

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

4 shows seems like a kind of small sample size

Losing 10,000 buys from the first show to the most recent isnt that much either

Mox being out does not help them but he'll be back


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## Bosnian21

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

I heard 110,000 was the number, 10,000 better than DoN.


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## TFA

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

While they lost buys in the US, overseas they grew greatly and ended up doing a better overall number then DoN.


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## CenaBoy4Life

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

PPV is dead . doesnt mean anything.


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## Zatiel

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Threads like this need sources or they're worthless.


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## The Masked Avenger

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

The fact that anyone actually buys traditional PPVs anymore is almost as laughable as people thinking that is a legitimate way to judge a companies worth.


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## Hangman

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

No Moxley at AO. 

He is the draw.


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## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

The AO card was doo doo.


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## Illogical

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



Hangman said:


> No Moxley at AO.
> 
> He is the draw.


fwiw I think looking at these numbers atm is stupid but Moxley wasn't advertised for the DoN so that's hardly a reason to explain the decline.


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## Hangman

RainmakerV2 said:


> The AO card was doo doo.


I agree, I bought it to watch Moxley.

When he pulled out my interest plummeted. Luckily the ME saved the show.


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## NXT Only

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



Illogical said:


> fwiw I think looking at these numbers atm is stupid but Moxley wasn't advertised for the DoN so that's hardly a reason to explain the decline.


First show buzz, Mox speculation as well.


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## Rick Sanchez

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

I love how some WWE fans just want AEW to fail so bad.


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## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

if true then so what? AEW is in no danger of failing, It still has a fanbase that they'll continue to grow and they'll easily make those fans back. Not a big deal.


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## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



Hangman said:


> I agree, I bought it to watch Moxley.
> 
> When he pulled out my interest plummeted. Luckily the ME saved the show.


Omega vs. Pac was alright. The cracker barrel match was fucking embarassing and I was embarrassed watching it. The womens match sucked, no one cared. The tag match sucked worse, no one cared even more. Cody vs. Spears was alright but by far the weakest of Codys smoke and mirror spectacle filled PPV matches, People blowing loads over Arn when WWE did that same spot 17 years ago. Like yay. The ladder match was great for what it was and the ME was good, but not great, mainly because no one in the crowd bought Page as a world title level competitor, and nor should they.


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## Tell em' Hawk!

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Fans that seem so much more invested in 'Ratings' & 'Buys' rather than focus on Characters and story lines, are everything wrong with Wrestling fans today. I've been watching since around 1990/91 and at not a single point have I ever been concerned about that side of things. As long as companies have good stories and characters to keep me interested, that's all i need. Fuck the numbers.


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## Steven Fraser

*AEW marketing problems.*

With the dire news of AEW ratings not picking up and tickets declines,one must think is AEW not doing well already.

Why that might be lack of media exposure & not good firm marketing.

AEW is going too have do a lot of thing just too get over with people.

But with WWE not that popular nowadays is wrestling in a downward spiral.

Unlike the days of WWE Raw vs WCW Nitro and you had ECW as a alternative.

WNW could be forgettable and not worth NXT will win but won’t get big ratings.


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## Tell em' Hawk!

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

They'll be fine.


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## Best Bout Machine

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



RainmakerV2 said:


> The cracker barrel match was fucking embarassing and I was embarrassed watching it.


That's an odd review of the second best match on the card.


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## Daggdag

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Why do I get the feeling that the OP illegally streams All Out, and then came onto the internet to mock lower buy rates of the show?


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## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



ZSJ said:


> That's an odd review of the second best match on the card.


Smh. You deserve what you get I guess. Three guys that look like they sat alone at lunch in school giving each other fake papercuts. So edgy.


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## TAC41

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> The fact that anyone actually buys traditional PPVs anymore is almost as laughable as people thinking that is a legitimate way to judge a companies worth.




You can make that argument for WWE because of the network, but there is no AEW network. PPV buys are a large (and only atm) part of their revenue, which directly contributes to their worth. Losing 10% of your audience in a few months is a huge deal. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rbl85

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



TAC41 said:


> You can make that argument for WWE because of the network, but there is no AEW network. PPV buys are a large (and only atm) part of their revenue, which directly contributes to their worth. Losing 10% of your audience in a few months is a huge deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They lost 10% on PPV but gain more on FiteTV, ITV and B/R Live.


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## patpat

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

people making it sound like things are crumbling down never make me lol enough :lol 
yeah they just did 110k buys ( per Meltzer) for their latest ppv but sure "omg its the end of the world" 
the instant sellout were always going to stop, do folks even realize one year from now a non wwe company selling 7000 seats was a literally seen as impossible? 
they will grow and have a lot of leeway to work with, the crazy expectations are hilarious, I have seen people say they could do 3.2 million viewers :lol gezus

over than that I agree they will have to do a lot to get over with people, thats what every fucking start up company in the world has to face.


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## Shaun_27

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

Numbers are no problem. They have got these buys without TV. Think about how impressive that is.

Generally I think you make a good point about marketing though. They say they are "the alternative", but I'm not sure what this means.


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## Beatles123

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*

there are at least 3 threads that can now be merged with this one.


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## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

‘The dire news’


geeeeez, hyperbole much?

Their movement has mostly been online, and that will just grow

We’ll see what happens once tv starts - i think we’re still looking at sell-outs or near sell-outs for the forseeable future - just not within the hour.

Might take days or weeks now. But 80% average capacity per event for sure IMO


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## Beatles123

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



RainmakerV2 said:


> Smh. You deserve what you get I guess. Three guys that look like they sat alone at lunch in school giving each other fake papercuts. So edgy.


LOOK OUT!!! DIFFERENT TASTES! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN!! :hutz


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## Thumbinthebum

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

Should we maybe wait for the show to start and actually _get_ ratings before discussing whether they're falling or not?

Just a thought.


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## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Ratings, Buy-Rates and Viewership Discussion*

Great thread for preservation of sanity

For clarification - this is the place for ticket buy-rate as well, right?

On topic - everything’s fine / all is great / ratings are gonna be amazing, ppv numbers will climb and tickets will sell-out


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## Raye

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*



Steven Fraser said:


> *With the dire news of AEW ratings not picking up* and tickets declines,one must think is AEW not doing well already.
> 
> Why that might be lack of media exposure & not good firm marketing.
> 
> AEW is going too have do a lot of thing just too get over with people.
> 
> But with WWE not that popular nowadays is wrestling in a downward spiral.
> 
> Unlike the days of WWE Raw vs WCW Nitro and you had ECW as a alternative.
> 
> WNW could be forgettable and not worth NXT will win but won’t get big ratings.


Ratings not picking up, after having absolutely zero television shows yet, these are the brilliant minds we're supposed to be discussing wrestling with.

:sodone


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## Death Rider

Ratings not picking up? They haven't had a fucking show on tv.


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## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> ZSJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's an odd review of the second best match on the card.
> 
> 
> 
> Smh. You deserve what you get I guess. Three guys that look like they sat alone at lunch in school giving each other fake papercuts. So edgy.
Click to expand...

Match was great and arguable the best on the card. Also this criticism is fucking hilarious coming from a jay white mark who literally comes across as an edge lord teenager from hot topic


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## Raye

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*



Death Rider said:


> Ratings not picking up? They haven't had a fucking show on tv.


No show for a month wtf company is dead!!!!111~~~~ xDDDDDDD


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## Deathstroke

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

PPV buys aren't even remotely an indicator of interest. They're just using an outdated model in 2019. No one wants to spend $50 on PPV when WWE offers much more for a fifth of the price.

Most other companies like Impact, Ring of Honor, NJPW and even CZW already have streaming services of their own.


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## Buhalovski

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

I mean thats kinda expected, isnt it? They cant keep riding the momentum through the whole year.

Developing characters, finding their own presence and making interesting storylines is the way to go. I think they'll be fine.


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## Buster Baxter

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Moxley wasn't there, him having to pull out of their biggest match I'm sure played a huge role, despite people claiming these shows will sell no matter who's on them. I give them a pass for this. 

Also lol at people spinning this saying PPV is dead, no. UFC and Boxing are eating just fine off PPVS. AEW is still a new company growing their brand so this isn't really that big of a deal.Once they get more exposure the numbers will go back up. For them to even be the 100k range for a company that just started this year is pretty impressive.


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## RBrooks

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Mox was out, and he was the main event basically. So it's not surprising. 



RainmakerV2 said:


> Smh. You deserve what you get I guess. Three guys that look like they sat alone at lunch in school giving each other fake papercuts. So edgy.


Hey! Papercut hurts like a motherfucker. 



Death Rider said:


> Match was great and arguable the best on the card. Also this criticism is fucking hilarious coming from a jay white mark who literally comes across as an edge lord teenager from hot topic


:lmao Gotta agree. These Jay White marks are spreading all of a sudden.


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## The Masked Avenger

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



Buster Baxter said:


> Also lol at people spinning this saying PPV is dead, no. UFC and Boxing are eating just fine off PPVS. AEW is still a new company growing their brand so this isn't really that big of a deal.Once they get more exposure the numbers will go back up. For them to even be the 100k range for a company that just started this year is pretty impressive.


Are Boxing and UFC also available on streaming services like B/R Live and Fite TV?


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## Chan Hung

They havent even had a fucking show on TV. Wait and then see what happens.


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## The Masked Avenger

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

Jesus another one of these stupid AEW is failing threads. You guys need to stop with this hyperbole. You don't like AEW fine, move on elsewhere. Constructive criticism is one thing but many of you guys are just trolling hard.


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## Natecore

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

Fuck, I guess I’ll just give up on AEW now

Tony probably called TNT and told them to cancel his show too


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## CRCC

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

With only 4 shows in it is difficult to reach any conclusion regarding booking, creative choices, etc, imagine trying to analyze business metrics, it's worthless.


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## Stellar

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

To be fair on AEWs part, it is to be expected for them to lose at least a little momentum when their TV deal hasn't started yet.

Lets see how things go once they get going on TNT. Having 30 minute videos on youtube isn't the same. 

It's too early for anyone to be freaking out about any sort of a decline.

Having said that, not having Moxley isn't as big of a deal as was made out to be. The name Chris Jericho is much more known to hardcore and casuals and he was on the card. They were crowning their first World Champion on the show and PAC replacing Moxley was still an "attention getter" for us hardcore fans.

I see a lot of two extremes: Reporting every little negative thing on AEW OR getting overly defensive when someone does report something negative on AEW. October is nearly here. Everyone chill.


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## imthegame19

TAC41 said:


> Lost 10,000 viewers between DON and All Out. These guys are screwed when they go to weekly TV.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I know you made this thread to troll. But yes buys are down because Double or Nothing was first show excitement. All Out buys would have been bigger. But you can't take away the number one match people want to see in Moxley/Omega and expect it to do better then Double or Nothing. So the reason buys were down was no Moxley/Omega. 


Also you are a idiot they aren't screwed. The whole point of weekly tv is to add more AEW fans which will result in more buys lol. I'm sorry but you just need to be banned for trolling at this point. Please at least make sense when you are trying to troll. It's still AMAZING that AEW is able to do these buys(that WCW wasnt even doing in 2001)without weekly tv. You dumbass lol.


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## imthegame19

Southerner said:


> To be fair on AEWs part, it is to be expected for them to lose at least a little momentum when their TV deal hasn't started yet.
> 
> Lets see how things go once they get going on TNT. Having 30 minute videos on youtube isn't the same.
> 
> It's too early for anyone to be freaking out about any sort of a decline.
> 
> Having said that, not having Moxley isn't as big of a deal as was made out to be. The name Chris Jericho is much more known to hardcore and casuals and he was on the card. They were crowning their first World Champion on the show and PAC replacing Moxley was still an "attention getter" for us hardcore fans.
> 
> I see a lot of two extremes: Reporting every little negative thing on AEW OR getting overly defensive when someone does report something negative on AEW. October is nearly here. Everyone chill.


Moxley/Omega was hyped and talked about match for months. Fans where way more excited for Moxley/Omega then Jericho/Page. In fact people questioned if they were wasting Moxley/Omega because it wasn't main event title match. There's no doubt that buys were way down because the match got cancelled. It's not even just Moxley it's combo of a top WWE guy in his prime facing top New Japan guy in his prime. It was a dream match a lot of fans never thought they would see. So there's no doubt about it. That had big impact on buys.


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## Shaun_27

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*

How are we pinning everything on Moxley? He wasn't even scheduled for DoN?


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## imthegame19

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

Nope every thing is as expected nothing dire. They didn't even start tv yet lol. Right now they should be lucky to be selling 1,000 tickets to shows and doing 20-30 thousand buys on ppvs. Instead there selling at least 5,000 tickets to every show and doing 100,000 plus buys on ppvs. That is flat out AMAZING for a company to builds shows on wrestlers only on social media lol.


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## imthegame19

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Jesus another one of these stupid AEW is failing threads. You guys need to stop with this hyperbole. You don't like AEW fine, move on elsewhere. Constructive criticism is one thing but many of you guys are just trolling hard.


Lol I know the damn company not even on weekly tv yet and still doing amazing things. They weren't gonna keep the pace and still grow past what they were doing without tv. So this slow down is expected with so many tickets for shows on sale and it's still doing really well. It's sad, stupid and hilarious trolls trying to push this agenda right now. At least for tv and months of ratings for these trolls to make these threads. Right now It's basically like making fun of a woman for having small breast when she has Ds instead of double Ds. That's how petty and pointless these threads are. This company is doing amazing when you consider they build their shows with 10 minutes of YouTube promo videos per week lol


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## InexorableJourney

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

1.6 million viewers a week sounds like a good platform to advertise from.


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## lesenfanteribles

*Re: AEW marketing problems.*

How about giving it a chance first? I mean they don't even have their weekly TV show yet. They've done a few PPV's and it's unfair to judge them by that. We'll see when the first TV show goes on air.


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## Trivette

What ratings??? The show hasn't even started yet!!! 

That said all the SJW stuff creeping in (Cody being reprimanded for saying "pussy" in Mexico, pushing a ****** as the face of the women's division, Omega getting publically butt hutt over WWE scheduling an event the same day as FFTF) is already a turn off.


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## Strike Force

imthegame19 said:


> Also you are a idiot they aren't screwed.


Four grammatical errors in a span of eight words in the process of calling someone else an idiot!












Fringe said:


> What ratings??? The show hasn't even started yet!!!
> 
> That said all the SJW stuff creeping in (Cody being reprimanded for saying "pussy" in Mexico, pushing a ****** as the face of the women's division, Omega getting publically butt hutt over WWE scheduling an event the same day as FFTF) is already a turn off.


Correct. Catering to the tear-soaked SJW fruits is a risky proposition, as they will absolutely turn on you and protest you in their awful handmade rags if you ever dare to do ANYTHING they deem "offensive."


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## AEWMoxley

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



Illogical said:


> fwiw I think looking at these numbers atm is stupid but Moxley wasn't advertised for the DoN so that's hardly a reason to explain the decline.


He added about 20K replay buys with the buzz created from his debut.

You're also looking at it wrong. It's not so much the drop from DON to All Out that was affected by losing him (although that's part of it) it's the drop from what they would have done with him on All Out vs what they actually did without him. They easily do 140-150K with him on the card. The announcement of his match was followed by record ticket demand the next day, and the announcement of his injury immediately plummeted secondary market ticket demand and prices.

Luckily, they still had their only other draw (Jericho) on the card, which helped stop the bleeding.


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## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



Beatles123 said:


> LOOK OUT!!! DIFFERENT TASTES! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN!! :hutz


Has nothing to do with different tastes. If you enjoy shit like that I question your IQ and basic abilities. But Im aware that some are just gonna say everything AEW does is great for the fuck of it. They could have the fat dude from the Dark Order get fucked up the ass with an iron by one of his gimps and you'd just say.."you dont understand WWE mark, different tastes!"...so like..okay. lol


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## Claro De Luna

What's the latest on the Nashville tickets? Is there much interest in them?


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## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> What's the latest on the Nashville tickets? Is there much interest in them?


Impossible to tell because we can't see how many seats are sold


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## imthegame19

Strike Force said:


> Four grammatical errors in a span of eight words in the process of calling someone else an idiot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "


That's the only way someone who shares thoughts would understand lol.


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## Reggie Dunlop

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Are Boxing and UFC also available on streaming services like B/R Live and Fite TV?


I don’t know about boxing (haven’t followed it in ages), but UFC left ppv’s in favor of ESPN+, and Bellator went to DAZN, both paid subscription streaming services. AEW would do well to follow suit, once they have enough programming in the can to make it worthwhile. 

I had been buying the occasional UFC ppv, but I can’t stand ESPN, so I sure as shit am not about to give them any more money than they’re already getting from my cable bill. Bellator doesn’t interest me enough to justify subscribing to another streaming service. But I’d consider it for AEW at something more reasonable, like $5 a month. Such a move could end up being a good proposition for any streaming service, and at a cheap price should help get more eyes on the product.



RainmakerV2 said:


> Has nothing to do with different tastes. If you enjoy shit like that I question your IQ and basic abilities. But Im aware that some are just gonna say everything AEW does is great for the fuck of it. They could have the fat dude from the Dark Order get fucked up the ass with an iron by one of his gimps and you'd just say.."you dont understand WWE mark, different tastes!"...so like..okay. lol


Soooooo.... if I enjoy something that you don’t — and I assume vice versa — that makes me developmentally challenged. Okie-dokie. Although I quietly harbor the same opinion of anybody who thought There’s Something About Mary or any of the Hangover movies were funny, so fair’s fair, I guess.


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## RainmakerV2

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Soooooo.... if I enjoy something that you don’t — and I assume vice versa — that makes me developmentally challenged. Okie-dokie. Although I quietly harbor the same opinion of anybody who thought There’s Something About Mary or any of the Hangover movies were funny, so fair’s fair, I guess.


If you enjoy three guys who look like they stayed home for senior prom listening to Nirvana giving themselves papercuts and swallowing thumbtacks and literally trying to kill themselves because they can't actually work. Then yeah, I do.


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## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> Reggie Dunlop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Soooooo.... if I enjoy something that you don’t — and I assume vice versa — that makes me developmentally challenged. Okie-dokie. Although I quietly harbor the same opinion of anybody who thought There’s Something About Mary or any of the Hangover movies were funny, so fair’s fair, I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> If you enjoy three guys who look like they stayed home for senior prom listening to Nirvana giving themselves papercuts and swallowing thumbtacks and literally trying to kill themselves because they can't actually work. Then yeah, I do.
Click to expand...

Cool and if you like a greasy haired hot topic wannabe then I question your IQ :draper2. Come back when jay white has a feud as good as havoc's vs ospreay. The fact people say havoc can't work is laughable. His feud with ospreay was the top feud in Progress as it was growing and helped establish it but jimmy havoc can't work <img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2XjBg7.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Heston" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2XjBg7.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Heston" class="inlineimg" />


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## Reggie Dunlop

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you enjoy three guys who look like they stayed home for senior prom listening to Nirvana giving themselves papercuts and swallowing thumbtacks and literally trying to kill themselves because they can't actually work. Then yeah, I do.


Well then, let's put things in perspective here. Based on the fact that you're posting in a wrestling forum and have stated your dislikes on said matter, one can only assume there's a high likelihood that you enjoy watching oiled up muscleheads stomping around in their underwear, yelling at each other and play-fighting, which isn't exactly what I'd call a ringing endorsement of your own discerning tastes. 

You're just another wrestling fan. The fact that you have hard lines between what you enjoy and what you think others shouldn't doesn't make you any more or less of one, only a close-minded one. Get off your soapbox and accept the idea that everyone else's preferences aren't going to match yours. What people do and don't like doesn't make them any more or less right, nor does it say anything about their IQ or 'basic abilities', whatever the hell that's supposed to be.


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## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you enjoy three guys who look like they stayed home for senior prom listening to Nirvana giving themselves papercuts and swallowing thumbtacks and literally trying to kill themselves because they can't actually work. Then yeah, I do.


Look out guys

We got a discerning wrestling connoisseur over here

Hang tight while I fetch my monocle and Tanahashi box set


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The hardcore match from All Out wasn't really my cup of tea, but you can't say the match sucked if it had the crowd going crazy the entire duration.


----------



## RainmakerV2

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Look out guys
> 
> We got a discerning wrestling connoisseur over here
> 
> Hang tight while I fetch my monocle and Tanahashi box set


To act like there aren't shades of grey between that horseshit they did and Bill Watts WCW no top rope rule is just laughable. I already said I liked the ladder match, I mean that had its fair amount of choreographed nonsense, but I respect the athleticism and timing the shit they did took. But like I said, AEW could put snuff porn on its PPVs and some of you would defend it, so I mean, I know the battle Im fighting here.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Point 1 - 100% I am coming from that perspective - but so are I think around 300k other people - which seems to be their loyalist fanbase. You can build a pretty good company around that as your core.
> 
> 
> 
> Point 2 - sorry, disagree - the last console generation more than anything showed the worth of exclusives. More people gravitated towards ps4 (myself included from xbox 360) because they had the far superior exclusive library.
> 
> 
> 
> Not that this has anything to do with the discussion - as my point was console vs free to play mobile
> 
> 
> 
> Ps> i guess we’ll continue this in the ratings thread?


1. They definitely have a nice fanbase that's unquestionable. I definitely think they have enough of a loyal fan base and will convert enough folk to sustain themselves come TV (as long as TNT doesn't randomly lose interest in wrestling again). It's just PPV I don't think will shoot up come TV, as I don't envision casuals being gung ho to pay that price. Then as I said I think fans that have been paying will get stingier with time. 

2. But before they even got to that point the PS4 crushed the Xbox One off of pricing. The price point because of the Kinect (as well as that terrible press conference) was a major turn off. The fact that PS4 ended up having more exclusives was even more reasoning later kn.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RapShepard said:


> 1. They definitely have a nice fanbase that's unquestionable. I definitely think they have enough of a loyal fan base and will convert enough folk to sustain themselves come TV (as long as TNT doesn't randomly lose interest in wrestling again). It's just PPV I don't think will shoot up come TV, as I don't envision casuals being gung ho to pay that price. Then as I said I think fans that have been paying will get stingier with time.
> 
> 2. But before they even got to that point the PS4 crushed the Xbox One off of pricing. The price point because of the Kinect (as well as that terrible press conference) was a major turn off. The fact that PS4 ended up having more exclusives was even more reasoning later kn.


Wasn't just the price point, the promotion of the Xbox One was a train wreck from the get go. The used games thing was the big thing, and yes, the ultimately went back on that, but the damage was done. $400 Vs. $500 was an element of it too, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't the only thing. MS butchered the promotion of the Xbox One to an obscene level.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RainmakerV2 said:


> To act like there aren't shades of grey between that horseshit they did and Bill Watts WCW no top rope rule is just laughable. I already said I liked the ladder match, I mean that had its fair amount of choreographed nonsense, but I respect the athleticism and timing the shit they did took. But like I said, AEW could put snuff porn on its PPVs and some of you would defend it, so I mean, I know the battle Im fighting here.


Listen mate, I did not like the 3-way / its not my bag

But acting all superior about disliking something will always get you rightfully some heat.

AEW is quite vocal about giving a buffet of styles - so, be prepared to keep on finding stuff you don’t like in-between the stuff you do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> 1. They definitely have a nice fanbase that's unquestionable. I definitely think they have enough of a loyal fan base and will convert enough folk to sustain themselves come TV (as long as TNT doesn't randomly lose interest in wrestling again). It's just PPV I don't think will shoot up come TV, as I don't envision casuals being gung ho to pay that price. Then as I said I think fans that have been paying will get stingier with time.
> 
> 2. *But before they even got to that point the PS4 crushed the Xbox One off of pricing. The price point because of the Kinect* (as well as that terrible press conference) was a major turn off. The fact that PS4 ended up having more exclusives was even more reasoning later kn.


Must be a USA thing. In EU where I was at the time and ZA where I am now, the prices were pretty similar, with ps4 actually being a little more expensive

I remember the conversation in my head being something like ‘100 bucks more, but I can finally play Last of Us’ - or something to that effect


----------



## Raye

RainmakerV2 said:


> To act like there aren't shades of grey between that horseshit they did and Bill Watts WCW no top rope rule is just laughable. I already said I liked the ladder match, I mean that had its fair amount of choreographed nonsense, but I respect the athleticism and timing the shit they did took. *But like I said, AEW could put snuff porn on its PPVs and some of you would defend it*, so I mean, I know the battle Im fighting here.


:trips10:trips10:trips10

They've emphasized the fact that they want there to be a little bit of something for everyone, you're not guaranteed to enjoy every aspect of a PPV, or to enjoy the entire 2 hour show on TNT. Why? Because there's going to be a variety. Whether it's tag teams, bruisers, cruisers, comedy, womens, hardcore, etc. They're trying to let the show have a little bit of something for everybody, with the hopes that they'll enjoy other aspects of the show.

I'll continuously go on record to say that Jebailey/Nakazawa was one of my favourite things at Fyter Fest. There's few things my girlfriend dreadfully sits through with me for wrestling and the fact that we both got to enjoy that match together is what made it great for me. For her, comedy and hardcore are the things she will willingly watch without complaining. She doesn't give a shit about the main event scene or anything else.

Again, it's about there being a little bit of something for everyone. You don't have any right to determine what people are and are not allowed to enjoy.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Wasn't just the price point, the promotion of the Xbox One was a train wreck from the get go. The used games thing was the big thing, and yes, the ultimately went back on that, but the damage was done. $400 Vs. $500 was an element of it too, don't get me wrong, but it wasn't the only thing. MS butchered the promotion of the Xbox One to an obscene level.


 Now this isn't great evidence, but at least from the folk I know that aren't viewers of E3 the big thing was price point. But yeah thats an all time worst press conference lol.


LifeInCattleClass said:


> Must be a USA thing. In EU where I was at the time and ZA where I am now, the prices were pretty similar, with ps4 actually being a little more expensive
> 
> I remember the conversation in my head being something like ‘100 bucks more, but I can finally play Last of Us’ - or something to that effect


Yeah the PS4 was like $100 cheaper than the Xbox One. Though Inbred is right and Microsoft fucked themselves with a terrible press conference.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yep.... that press conference.... woof!

‘We want to make your console....your tv’

Audience was like ‘wtf man?’


----------



## RapShepard

You mean y'all didn't want to cut on your console with your voice.


----------



## Chrome

Yeah, they do need to lower the ppv prices in the future, especially if All Out did worse than DON. I think 20$ is a good price for them.


----------



## RapShepard

$19.99 sounds perfect. Though it sucks they can't do the normal subscription service type model just yet. Hell even if they did something like buy a shirt or 2 get a promo code for a free or discounted PPV would be dope.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Raye said:


> :trips10:trips10:trips10
> 
> They've emphasized the fact that they want there to be a little bit of something for everyone, you're not guaranteed to enjoy every aspect of a PPV, or to enjoy the entire 2 hour show on TNT. Why? Because there's going to be a variety. Whether it's tag teams, bruisers, cruisers, comedy, womens, hardcore, etc. They're trying to let the show have a little bit of something for everybody, with the hopes that they'll enjoy other aspects of the show.
> 
> I'll continuously go on record to say that Jebailey/Nakazawa was one of my favourite things at Fyter Fest. There's few things my girlfriend dreadfully sits through with me for wrestling and the fact that we both got to enjoy that match together is what made it great for me. For her, comedy and hardcore are the things she will willingly watch without complaining. She doesn't give a shit about the main event scene or anything else.
> 
> Again, it's about there being a little bit of something for everyone. You don't have any right to determine what people are and are not allowed to enjoy.


Im not determining what anyone enjoys. Either you want AEW to be a huge success and a competitor to WWE in 10 years or you want them to go down in flames in 3, but hey, they had something for everybody wooooo right? They need to cut that shit out. I have zero problem with hardcore matches and I dont care if guys get juice on every show, but theres a line of stupidity when you're going to National weekly TV and they crossed it.


----------



## patpat

the ppv price isn't going to change anything, this is something meltzer and Alvarez discussed before even DON. people were screaming everywhere about the price and on the observer radio they went through all the statistics they had and the conclusion was just that the ppv price never and will never change anything. if aew put their ppv for 20$ they will do around the same numbers, there is simply only a very few margin of the team "if it was lower I would have brought it" but this portion is insignificant. 
with those "outrageous" prices DON did 120k and Alll out is around 110k (even tho we aren't very sure since Fite tv denied some parts of the report by Dave about their numbers but still) even going by dave's numbers they did around the same and thats after losing arguably 1) the biggest fight of the card in term of hype and 2) the fight which was set up at the end of don in the post main event fight. 
I know it can sound weird but thats how it is, aew can keep the same price but if they can manage to keep their ppv as special as they are now or even hell use tv to build more hype then it will be the same. 
what they need to do is stick to the 4 ppv/year format and always deliver the big box office matches on ppv and not tv, or at least avoid it. and they will in fact have to create stars ( which is everything but an easy task). but lowering the price won't do shit for their numbers.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im not determining what anyone enjoys. Either you want AEW to be a huge success and a competitor to WWE in 10 years or you want them to go down in flames in 3, but hey, they had something for everybody wooooo right? They need to cut that shit out. I have zero problem with hardcore matches and I dont care if guys get juice on every show, but theres a line of stupidity when you're going to National weekly TV and they crossed it.


Again, you’re asserting here that their only road to success is what _you_ say it is. Here’s a little news flash — it isn’t. It isn’t what I say it is or what anybody else in here says it is, either. It’s ultimately what Tony Kahn thinks it should be, and only time will tell if he’s right or not. *Only time will tell. *

Just to reiterate what others have said already, if you don’t like something, that’s fine, just say you don’t like it. Nobody ever said that everybody has to love everything they do. But ffs you and every other armchair CEO need to get off this kick that AEW is doomed to fail just because they do stuff that _you_ don’t like. 

If any part of what you said above were true, WWE would have been out of business 10 years ago.


----------



## Raye

RainmakerV2 said:


> Im not determining what anyone enjoys. Either you want AEW to be a huge success and a competitor to WWE in 10 years or you want them to go down in flames in 3, but hey, they had something for everybody wooooo right? They need to cut that shit out. I have zero problem with hardcore matches and I dont care if guys get juice on every show, but theres a line of stupidity when you're going to National weekly TV and they crossed it.


Nice monkey logic. Company doesn't do 100% of what I like so it's going to go down in flames.


----------



## patpat

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



RapShepard said:


> Now this isn't great evidence, but at least from the folk I know that aren't viewers of E3 the big thing was price point. But yeah thats an all time worst press conference lol.
> 
> 
> Yeah the PS4 was like $100 cheaper than the Xbox One. Though Inbred is right and Microsoft fucked themselves with a terrible press conference.


how did you guys ended up talking about video game Rap? 
i am laughing hard right now 

but to add to the debate we shouldn't forget that what sold PS4 on people except from the price ( PS4 is more expensive for Europe but it still destroyed xbox) was Sony's communication, but we shouldn't forget the exclusives too which gave Sony an advantage.
------------------------------------------------------
also people didn't like that triple threat? I watched the event with some non wrestling friends, and it was their favorite one, the skateboard spot was the talk of the night for us :lol 
I think we wrestling fans tend to assume the general audience takes wrestling seriously for wants serious wrestling all te time. but maybe we are wrong and the crazy shit ends up being more entertaining ? don't know lol


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

I can understand the people who didn't like the triple threat. It was what it was and if I have the chance to fast forward, will do that everytime.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



patpat said:


> how did you guys ended up talking about video game Rap?
> i am laughing hard right now
> 
> but to add to the debate we shouldn't forget that what sold PS4 on people except from the price ( PS4 is more expensive for Europe but it still destroyed xbox) was Sony's communication, but we shouldn't forget the exclusives too which gave Sony an advantage.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> also people didn't like that triple threat? I watched the event with some non wrestling friends, and it was their favorite one, the skateboard spot was the talk of the night for us
> I think we wrestling fans tend to assume the general audience takes wrestling seriously for wants serious wrestling all te time. but maybe we are wrong and the crazy shit ends up being more entertaining ? don't know lol


Oh just replying to another reply from before the ratings thread. I agree non-fans dont take it as serious though.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



RainmakerV2 said:


> Has nothing to do with different tastes. If you enjoy shit like that I question your IQ and basic abilities. But Im aware that some are just gonna say everything AEW does is great for the fuck of it. They could have the fat dude from the Dark Order get fucked up the ass with an iron by one of his gimps and you'd just say.."you dont understand WWE mark, different tastes!"...so like..okay. lol


Nothing is "Objectively" bad. Stop it. You don't get to decide what people should or shouldn't like. And as for AEW, there are plenty on the oposite extreme and neither viewpoint is "Correct".

What you can have is a CONSENSUS that something is bad, and that may influence how things of its' nature are perceived, but in no way should anyone goo "IF YOU LIKE THIS YOU ARE INFERIOR TO ME AND I PASS JUDGEMENT UPON YOU".

That isnt cool.


----------



## Saintpat

Raye said:


> :trips10:trips10:trips10
> 
> They've emphasized the fact that they want there to be a little bit of something for everyone.


Frankly this worries me. It’s pretty much = ‘they want to be all things to all people’ and that never works in anything.

I think they’d be much better off deciding and defining exactly who and what they are and finding that audience. If it’s ‘serious sports-based promotion’ or ‘bad Orange Cassidy comedy promotion’ or ‘flippy little boys YB promotion’ or ‘throwback Cody nostalgia pop psychology-based matches promotion’ — at least they’d gain 100 percent of whatever audience is there for that.

To try to be a little bit of this and a little bit of that ultimately leaves the people who like this or that dissatisfied because they only got a taste and turning those same people off to the other stuff they don’t like.

Whatever AEW is going to be, it needs to figure that out and be that IMO.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

Saintpat said:


> Frankly this worries me. It’s pretty much = *‘they want to be all things to all people’ and that never works in anything.*
> 
> I think they’d be much better off deciding and defining exactly who and what they are and finding that audience. If it’s ‘serious sports-based promotion’ or ‘bad Orange Cassidy comedy promotion’ or ‘flippy little boys YB promotion’ or ‘throwback Cody nostalgia pop psychology-based matches promotion’ — at least they’d gain 100 percent of whatever audience is there for that.
> 
> To try to be a little bit of this and a little bit of that ultimately leaves the people who like this or that dissatisfied because they only got a taste and turning those same people off to the other stuff they don’t like.
> 
> Whatever AEW is going to be, it needs to figure that out and be that IMO.


That's true when they half-arse everything, if they actually put on the best versions of the individual styles then, even when you're watching a style that doesn't appeal, you at least know you're watching the best version of it and that the next match _will_ appeal to you and _will_ be great.

Imagine watching WWE's micromanaged version of Orange Cassidy followed by their micromanaged version of The Young Bucks followed by their micromanaged version of Cody vs Dustin. Well, we've seen that






Thanks but no thanks


----------



## Saintpat

Thumbinthebum said:


> That's true when they half-arse everything, if they actually put on the best versions of the individual styles then, even when you're watching a style that doesn't appeal, you at least know you're watching the best version of it and that the next match _will_ appeal to you and _will_ be great.
> 
> Imagine watching WWE's micromanaged version of Orange Cassidy followed by their micromanaged version of The Young Bucks followed by their micromanaged version of Cody vs Dustin. Well, we've seen that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks but no thanks


I hear you, but it doesn’t mean ‘let Orange Cassidy do what he wants’ is going to be better. In fact, I think it might be worse.

This is the same promotion that brought us the Librarians and thought it was a good idea. I wonder where the filter is. This bunch very much marks for their own in-jokes.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

Saintpat said:


> I hear you, but it doesn’t mean ‘let Orange Cassidy do what he wants’ is going to be better. In fact, I think it might be worse.
> 
> This is the same promotion that brought us the Librarians and thought it was a good idea. I wonder where the filter is. This bunch very much marks for their own in-jokes.


Sure, The Librarians will always be the stick used to beat them but look, they worked on BTE which is the fanbase AEW have locked down so it made sense to try them in front a larger audience; sadly they are an act that needs to be built to if iit is to have a chance of working (see Emma moving from NXT to the main roster). They didn't work so they've been scaled back and maybe they'll work in this less prominent role or maybe they'll be gettisoned altogether but here's the thing, I'd rather they take a few risks than play it safe. There are are no spectacular rewards without the possibility of spectacular failures.


----------



## Saintpat

Thumbinthebum said:


> Sure, The Librarians will always be the stick used to beat them but look, they worked on BTE which is the fanbase AEW have locked down so it made sense to try them in front a larger audience; sadly they are an act that needs to be built to if iit is to have a chance of working (see Emma moving from NXT to the main roster). They didn't work so they've been scaled back and maybe they'll work in this less prominent role or maybe they'll be gettisoned altogether but here's the thing, I'd rather they take a few risks than play it safe. There are are no spectacular rewards without the possibility of spectacular failures.


As I said, I wonder where the filter is.

As mentioned, I think they’re way to into their own in-jokes — they think it’s funny and their die-hards who watch their YouTube (or some of them) think it’s funny ... but that doesn’t mean those things are made for TV or PPVs.

I worry that there’s some ‘well Omega thinks this is cool and we’ll let him do this, but if he gets to do this then we get to do that ...’ which can be disastrous. Who in the room (or group phone text chat) stand up and says, ‘Yeah, Bucks, that was a cute silly bit on YouTube but no way we’re doing it on TV’?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Saintpat said:


> Frankly this worries me. It’s pretty much = ‘*they want to be all things to all people*’ and that never works in anything.
> 
> I think they’d be much better off deciding and defining exactly who and what they are and finding that audience. If it’s ‘serious sports-based promotion’ or ‘bad Orange Cassidy comedy promotion’ or ‘flippy little boys YB promotion’ or ‘throwback Cody nostalgia pop psychology-based matches promotion’ — at least they’d gain 100 percent of whatever audience is there for that.
> 
> To try to be a little bit of this and a little bit of that ultimately leaves the people who like this or that dissatisfied because they only got a taste and turning those same people off to the other stuff they don’t like.
> 
> Whatever AEW is going to be, it needs to figure that out and be that IMO.


Except they’re not the same thing. ‘Something for everyone’ is not ‘all things to all people’ — there’s a subtle but significant difference between the two. 

The problem with your proposal is, going 100% after one small portion of the audience is pretty much cutting off a much larger audience. Cody has already been crucified for suggesting they’re not going after the casual fan. There’s no reason why they can’t offer the variety of styles as they’re currently doing to appeal to as wide a wrestling audience as possible. In fact that’s the biggest aspect that draws me to their product — seeing different workers and styles that I’d never see if they stuck to just one.


----------



## Raye

Saintpat said:


> Frankly this worries me. It’s pretty much = ‘they want to be all things to all people’ and that never works in anything.
> 
> I think they’d be much better off deciding and defining exactly who and what they are and finding that audience. If it’s ‘serious sports-based promotion’ or ‘bad Orange Cassidy comedy promotion’ or ‘flippy little boys YB promotion’ or ‘throwback Cody nostalgia pop psychology-based matches promotion’ — at least they’d gain 100 percent of whatever audience is there for that.
> 
> To try to be a little bit of this and a little bit of that ultimately leaves the people who like this or that dissatisfied because they only got a taste and turning those same people off to the other stuff they don’t like.
> 
> Whatever AEW is going to be, it needs to figure that out and be that IMO.


I highly disagree. There's room for a little bit of everything, and WWE at its highest points proves exactly that. A one dimensional product is more likely to fail.


----------



## RapShepard

Idk if they really have something for everyone. By and large in-ring you're getting high paced spot fests. If you like those type of matches, idk why you wouldn't enjoy AEW. A Cody type match here and an Orange Cassidy appearance there isn't what I'd call something for everyone.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RapShepard said:


> Idk if they really have something for everyone. By and large in-ring you're getting high paced spot fests. If you like those type of matches, idk why you wouldn't enjoy AEW. A Cody type match here and an Orange Cassidy appearance there isn't what I'd call something for everyone.


I don’t mean literally something for _everyone_. You’ve got comedy, you’ve got spotfests, you’ve got classic psychology. Hardcore, high-flyers, brawlers, women-beasts, joshis, lightweights, heavyweights (though not many), there’s a pretty good mix for fans of many different flavors. Even though everything doesn’t always resonate, it’s that variety that’s drawing my interest right now. I may be off the beaten path here, but I’d say that the diversity is more enticing to me than soap-opera story lines.


----------



## RapShepard

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I don’t mean literally something for _everyone_. You’ve got comedy, you’ve got spotfests, you’ve got classic psychology. Hardcore, high-flyers, brawlers, women-beasts, joshis, lightweights, heavyweights (though not many), there’s a pretty good mix for fans of many different flavors. Even though everything doesn’t always resonate, it’s that variety that’s drawing my interest right now. I may be off the beaten path here, but I’d say that the diversity is more enticing to me than soap-opera story lines.


I get it, but I just don't like that saying, as its usually a serious exaggeration. I wouldn't mind it if the things being touted as versatility were in equal (or close to) representation, but usually they aren't.

It just reminds of the annoyance of when ECW fans and Paul Heyman try to sell ECW as more than blood and guts. Like yeah they had cruiserweights and technicians, but if we're being honest the real appeal was the blood and guts. The other shit was just a nice side thing.


----------



## shandcraig

Exactly. Look at wwe now, its cattering to be one dimensional itself.

Wcw was several dimensions with several styles of wrestlers and that's what made it so good. WWF in its prime had several different wrestlers in styles


----------



## MetalKiwi

You need different styles, or every show will feel like you are watching Monday Night RAW.


----------



## patpat

I think that their main event scene isn't spotfest, omega isn't a flippy guy, nor jericho, nor moxley nor cody ( and thats their big 4), if you want to add, hangman ( not one) dustin ( not one),. actually I think with their main event scene they are going for an njpw-like feel 
pac is the only one you would be tempted to call flappy but even him rely a lot on character work, and does strong moves a lot. ( from what I have seen from him in dragon ages and his aew match).


----------



## Raye

RapShepard said:


> Idk if they really have something for everyone. By and large in-ring you're getting high paced spot fests. If you like those type of matches, idk why you wouldn't enjoy AEW. A Cody type match here and an Orange Cassidy appearance there isn't what I'd call something for everyone.


:aries2

Are you guys wrestling fans or food inspectors, seriously lmfao

Something for everyone as in there's something for kids, there's something for adults, there's something for women, there's focus on tag team wrestling, we get comedy and hardcore, we get different personalities, there's so much to pick and choose from from what you like, and you know the best part? They're doing the best they can to get the best talent to make the aspects people like about wrestling the best they possibly can.


----------



## RapShepard

Raye said:


> :aries2
> 
> 
> 
> Are you guys wrestling fans or food inspectors, seriously lmfao
> 
> 
> 
> Something for everyone as in there's something for kids, there's something for adults, there's something for women, there's focus on tag team wrestling, we get comedy and hardcore, we get different personalities, there's so much to pick and choose from from what you like, and you know the best part? They're doing the best they can to get the best talent to make the aspects people like about wrestling the best they possibly can.



It's not a knock on them, as much as it's a knock on over selling what they offer.

First part is the majority of their stuff has proven to be high paced and spot heavy and I don't mean that negatively. But for the fans that don't like that style of wrestling, then the other small doses of variety they offer probably won't be enough to make them a fan. 


The other part is why are folk overselling what they offer as if it not almost the norm. I mean both Impact and WWE offer tag wrestling, women's wrestling, comedy stuff, hardcore stuff, brawlers, heavyweights, and cruiserweights. So selling AEW as if it's unique in that regard is weird.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RapShepard said:


> It's not a knock on them, as much as it's a knock on over selling what they offer.
> 
> First part is the majority of their stuff has proven to be high paced and spot heavy and I don't mean that negatively. But for the fans that don't like that style of wrestling, then the other small doses of variety they offer probably won't be enough to make them a fan.
> 
> 
> The other part is why are folk overselling what they offer as if it not almost the norm. I mean both Impact and WWE offer tag wrestling, women's wrestling, comedy stuff, hardcore stuff, brawlers, heavyweights, and cruiserweights. So selling AEW as if it's unique in that regard is weird.


I understand what you’re saying and partly agree. Except WWE’s tag division and women’s division are both jokes, and their idea of comedy is Vince’s lame-ass idea of what gets a yuk. And all their matches, no matter what they call them, fall under the same boring formulas. 

As far as uniqueness, there’s only so far you can go to make a product unique that can still be called wrestling that appeals to a broader fan base. Impact is better than WWE in that regard, but it isn’t aired anywhere I can watch it (even going to AXS, because my worthless cable provide doesn’t carry that, either). I don’t know that I’d call AEW unique as much as just a better presentation of variety. Just the way I see it, anyway.


----------



## Raye

RapShepard said:


> It's not a knock on them, as much as it's a knock on over selling what they offer.
> 
> First part is the majority of their stuff has proven to be high paced and spot heavy and I don't mean that negatively. But for the fans that don't like that style of wrestling, then the other small doses of variety they offer probably won't be enough to make them a fan.
> 
> 
> The other part is why are folk overselling what they offer as if it not almost the norm. I mean both Impact and WWE offer tag wrestling, women's wrestling, comedy stuff, hardcore stuff, brawlers, heavyweights, and cruiserweights. So selling AEW as if it's unique in that regard is weird.


WWE offers tag team wrestling? I should've just stopped reading right there :lol Don't know how you can type that with a straight face. Their tag team division has been a joke for years with the occasional, rare single bright spots that occur on one brand at a time, with the New Day, and the Usos. Let's seriously not act like anybody looking for good tag team wrestling is going to tune into WWE for it.

Women's wrestling I'll give them credit for because they've definitely got all the talent for it and the most over women in professional wrestling. Becky, Sasha, Bayley, Charlotte, Asuka, Kairi. That's not even including all the talent in NXT still. Nobody is realistically going to choose AEW's women's division over WWE's. However, you'd be in denial to say WWE has done a great job booking their women. Look at Sasha pre-return, look at the state Asuka is in now. It's too early to say anything about AEW's booking of the women's division because the direction on it isn't clear yet, but they get good time on PPVs so far and they haven't broken that trust yet.

WWE's comedy is awful. Hardcore stuff? Rarely and not really hardcore. Cruiserweights were ruined the moment they gave them their own separate show and made them feel like an unimportant special attraction as opposed to actually integrated with their programs.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



Raye said:


> WWE offers tag team wrestling? I should've just stopped reading right there [emoji38] Don't know how you can type that with a straight face. Their tag team division has been a joke for years with the occasional, rare single bright spots that occur on one brand at a time, with the New Day, and the Usos. Let's seriously not act like anybody looking for good tag team wrestling is going to tune into WWE for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Women's wrestling I'll give them credit for because they've definitely got all the talent for it and the most over women in professional wrestling. Becky, Sasha, Bayley, Charlotte, Asuka, Kairi. That's not even including all the talent in NXT still. Nobody is realistically going to choose AEW's women's division over WWE's. However, you'd be in denial to say WWE has done a great job booking their women. Look at Sasha pre-return, look at the state Asuka is in now. It's too early to say anything about AEW's booking of the women's division because the direction on it isn't clear yet, but they get good time on PPVs so far and they haven't broken that trust yet.
> 
> 
> 
> WWE's comedy is awful. Hardcore stuff? Rarely and not really hardcore. Cruiserweights were ruined the moment they gave them their own separate show and made them feel like an unimportant special attraction as opposed to actually integrated with their programs.


I made no argument about what the quality of the variety was I just merely mentioned its there. You're too caught up in the fact I mentioned WWE. Though I will point out that AEW's womens division is underwhelming at best and their comedy has been very divisive. Back on point the fact is the WWE literally offer all those things I mentioned, just like AEW does. How you feel about those offerings is irrelevant to what I said. 

Even on a "well at least in AEW unlike WWE each match is wrestled different" I'd counter do they really. Just like WWE, a lot of AEW matches have a very similar style and feel. Which is why Cody's matches are sticking out, because they aren't the high paced and jam packed with moves.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> I understand what you’re saying and partly agree. Except WWE’s tag division and women’s division are both jokes, and their idea of comedy is Vince’s lame-ass idea of what gets a yuk. And all their matches, no matter what they call them, fall under the same boring formulas.
> 
> 
> 
> As far as uniqueness, there’s only so far you can go to make a product unique that can still be called wrestling that appeals to a broader fan base. Impact is better than WWE in that regard, but it isn’t aired anywhere I can watch it (even going to AXS, because my worthless cable provide doesn’t carry that, either). I don’t know that I’d call AEW unique as much as just a better presentation of variety. Just the way I see it, anyway.


I'm not speaking on the quality of it though. Im speaking of the fact it's offered. But my main point is simply in-ring AEW isn't offering up this style variety that I see being promoted. For the majority of the matches have the same fast paced lots of moves and spots style. And again I'm not against it, but most of their matches would fall under that. Which is why Cody's matches have stuck out


----------



## Thumbinthebum

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



RapShepard said:


> I made no argument about what the quality of the variety was I just merely mentioned its there. You're too caught up in the fact I mentioned WWE. Though I will point out that AEW's womens division is underwhelming at best and their comedy has been very divisive. Back on point the fact is the WWE literally offer all those things I mentioned, just like AEW does. How you feel about those offerings is irrelevant to what I said.
> 
> Even on a "well at least in AEW unlike WWE each match is wrestled different" I'd counter do they really. Just like WWE, a lot of AEW matches have a very similar style and feel. Which is why Cody's matches are sticking out, because they aren't the high paced and jam packed with moves.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not speaking on the quality of it though. Im speaking of the fact it's offered. But my main point is simply in-ring AEW isn't offering up this style variety that I see being promoted. For the majority of the matches have the same fast paced lots of moves and spots style. And again I'm not against it, but most of their matches would fall under that. Which is why Cody's matches have stuck out


See, I would dispute that the 'lots of moves and spots' is a style, rather it's the way wrestling has developed over the last 15 years or so and to argue against that is to be living in the past. Think of a graph with an X and Y axis where the X (horizontal) refers to specific styles of wrestling (Lucha, Strong Style, British Catch Style, Hardcore and yes, even Sports Entertainment) vs the Y (vertical) which represents effort.

What you seemingly dismiss as 'moves and spots' is professional wrestlers trying to entertain professional wrestling fans; you may not be entertained but at least have the common decency to appreciate the effort.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



RapShepard said:


> I'm not speaking on the quality of it though. Im speaking of the fact it's offered. But my main point is simply in-ring AEW isn't offering up this style variety that I see being promoted. For the majority of the matches have the same fast paced lots of moves and spots style. And again I'm not against it, but most of their matches would fall under that. Which is why Cody's matches have stuck out


Ok, I can see that, and can’t say I completely disagree. All I can say is I enjoy watching what I’ve seen so far of AEW more than WWE, Impact and ROH. Whatever differences there are, subtle as they may be, make it an overall much more watchable product to me.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp;amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



Thumbinthebum said:


> See, I would dispute that the 'lots of moves and spots' is a style, rather it's the way wrestling has developed over the last 15 years or so and to argue against that is to be living in the past. Think of a graph with an X and Y axis where the X (horizontal) refers to specific styles of wrestling (Lucha, Strong Style, British Catch Style, Hardcore and yes, even Sports Entertainment) vs the Y (vertical) which represents effort.
> 
> 
> 
> What you seemingly dismiss as 'moves and spots' is professional wrestlers trying to entertain professional wrestling fans; you may not be entertained but at least have the common decency to appreciate the effort.


The thing is outside of the women and the BTE comedy I've enjoyed AEW. But I can enjoy it, without pretending there's variety that isn't there. You can talk about how wrestling has developed over the last 15 years, and all that points out is that true variety is harder to come by.

I'll keep going to Cody because his matches are what variety to me should look like. It actually looks and feels different than what's around it. The majority of the matches don't feel different, despite having different wrestlers or props.





Reggie Dunlop said:


> Ok, I can see that, and can’t say I completely disagree. All I can say is I enjoy watching what I’ve seen so far of AEW more than WWE, Impact and ROH. Whatever differences there are, subtle as they may be, make it an overall much more watchable product to me.


Aye no knock on that it's definitely been enjoyable for me besides the women and BTE style comedy. I'm not knocking anybody liking it.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

RapShepard said:


> It's not a knock on them, as much as it's a knock on over selling what they offer.
> 
> First part is the majority of their stuff has proven to be high paced and spot heavy and I don't mean that negatively. But for the fans that don't like that style of wrestling, then the other small doses of variety they offer probably won't be enough to make them a fan.
> 
> 
> The other part is why are folk overselling what they offer as if it not almost the norm. I mean both Impact and WWE offer tag wrestling, women's wrestling, comedy stuff, hardcore stuff, brawlers, heavyweights, and cruiserweights. So selling AEW as if it's unique in that regard is weird.


The one thing WWE does not do is write a good TV show.

It feels long tedious and boring to watch Raw or Smackdown.

you can't get into the characters, and the storylines aren't linear.

If AEW does those two things well, they will be keeping a lot of viewers who want to watch


----------



## shandcraig

I wouldn't say wrestling has developed much. But if it did ti what exactly? I dont think AEW is unque but thats not the point for me and many. Wwe sucks but i want a high quality promotion thats good. Lets hope thats what they achieve and that is why AEW is trying to give ti a swing to reach that for us. 

I think ifa promotion is considered unique it would fall under beung niche. 

What is wrestling? Characters, story telling and good matches. That will never ever ever change in 500 more years. Present that well with out over producing like wwe than people will be interested.


----------



## Tilon

DMD Mofomagic said:


> The one thing WWE does not do is write a good TV show.
> 
> It feels long tedious and boring to watch Raw or Smackdown.
> 
> you can't get into the characters, and the storylines aren't linear.
> 
> If AEW does those two things well, they will be keeping a lot of viewers who want to watch


Everything you hear about WWE these days makes it sound like a miserable place to work. "Throw him in the ropes, get him in a headlock, face that camera." Vince and others piping in to the ref every 30 seconds micromanaging everything. What you say is written for you. What you do is written for you. Clap, trained seal.

Wrestling has always been about the WRESTLERS first and foremost, and the personal connection you develop by watching and liking different performers as they do THEIR performance. I'm getting that from AEW. I feel like I'm getting to know them better, because it's actually the wrestlers coming up with their own stuff for the most part.

WWE seems almost purpose built to do the exact opposite and kill any personal connection. Can't have anything competing with The Brand™.


----------



## RapShepard

DMD Mofomagic said:


> The one thing WWE does not do is write a good TV show.
> 
> 
> 
> It feels long tedious and boring to watch Raw or Smackdown.
> 
> 
> 
> you can't get into the characters, and the storylines aren't linear.
> 
> 
> 
> If AEW does those two things well, they will be keeping a lot of viewers who want to watch


I mean yeah if they can deliver entertaining shows then yeah they should be able to garner and keep viewers. But that's not what I was talking about.


----------



## shandcraig

Lol my bad. And whatever i said wasn't even a debatable comment. Im just lost in space here?


----------



## Daggdag

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



TAC41 said:


> You can make that argument for WWE because of the network, but there is no AEW network. PPV buys are a large (and only atm) part of their revenue, which directly contributes to their worth. Losing 10% of your audience in a few months is a huge deal.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


PPV isn't the only way the show was streamed. 10% less ordered on traditional, tv provider backed, PPV. but the number of views on streaming services like Fite TV, B/R Live, and other streaming services they used added far nore than what was lost. More people view on LEGAL streaming services than on ppv now days. Why do you think WWE no longer uses PPV in most countries?


----------



## The Wood

Daggdag said:


> PPV isn't the only way the show was streamed. 10% less ordered on traditional, tv provider backed, PPV. but the number of views on streaming services like Fite TV, B/R Live, and other streaming services they used added far nore than what was lost. More people view on LEGAL streaming services than on ppv now days. Why do you think WWE no longer uses PPV in most countries?


The PPV numbers take into account streaming services and the like. The buys for DON were split pretty much evenly between traditional metrics and OTT streaming services. I keep hearing streaming was up, but we know the overall number was down. We also know that of the people who ordered AO domestically, 46% were return customers from DON. Given that DON did better than AO, we know that they had a retention rate of <46%. I split the difference between DON and AO, which was 63k, which happens to be what was recorded plus the 12% people thought it would go up, and that means 40% of people who watched DON decided to re-order. That's a pretty harrowing number. 



RapShepard said:


> It's not a knock on them, as much as it's a knock on over selling what they offer.
> 
> First part is the majority of their stuff has proven to be high paced and spot heavy and I don't mean that negatively. But for the fans that don't like that style of wrestling, then the other small doses of variety they offer probably won't be enough to make them a fan.
> 
> 
> The other part is why are folk overselling what they offer as if it not almost the norm. I mean both Impact and WWE offer tag wrestling, women's wrestling, comedy stuff, hardcore stuff, brawlers, heavyweights, and cruiserweights. So selling AEW as if it's unique in that regard is weird.


I think the P.T. Barnum approach to wrestling is overrated. Especially in such a customizable consumer market. If you like serious wrestling, then the stuff that breaks the reality and immersion of the product is not just "for someone else," but it's actually going to erode your interest in the serious stuff. It's tonally inconsistent and counterproductive. People who want high art aren't going to sit through a stupid comedy with a billion dick jokes and random explosions just because "there's something for everyone." I don't know where this idea that they are separate pieces of the same puzzle that can come together comes from. 

I am kind of frustrated that AEW promises to put an emphasis on tag team wrestling and women's wrestling, for example, yet their booking of their tags has been subpar (The Dark Order vs. Best Friends, folks) and the women have been treated _exactly the same_ as in WWE. Britt Baker would fit in perfectly on Raw or SmackDown. Kylie Rae was basically Bayley. Nyla Rose is a vulnerable monster, like a Nia Jax or Tamina (but probably better in the ring). The joshi are underwhelming compared to Asuka and Kairi Sane. What makes their women "special?" They have done literally nothing to highlight how they are treating women any better, nor do they really have women that demand that attention. 

I really don't get the love for the tag division. The Young Bucks vs. Lucha Bros. lacked substance (in my opinion). If you like that sort of thing, fine, but WWE does plenty of spotty tag team Ladder Matches too. They did one at WrestleMania two years ago. The Usos and The New Day took their feud into Hell in a Cell. Is that really any less special than The Bucks vs. Lucha Bros.? AEW would _kill_ to get teams like The Usos and Revival on board with them. There hasn't been a tag match in AEW anywhere near as good as the one where Johnny Gargano & Tommaso Ciampa won the NXT Tag Team Titles. Yes, I know that was ages ago, but I don't get the "we do proper tag team wrestling" argument comes from when there's a back catalogue of WWE stuff that is more significant and of a higher substantial quality. 

I like SCU as a team and Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus have potential. I haven't seen enough of LAX, but none of this stands out like a tag team division that completely smokes the potential one in WWE. The Usos, The Revival, The New Day, Harper & Rowan, Bryan & Reigns, Zayn & Nakamura, Roode & Ziggler, Heavy Machinery, The Viking Raiders, Black & Ricochet, Rey & Dominick. Yeah, some of those aren't teaming right now, or might be temporary arrangements, but I know which side I'd put more stock in. I'm probably even leaving some teams out. I just don't get the argument. I know WWE does shit with tag teams, but it's not like the potential isn't there, and it smokes the potential AEW could possibly realize.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Are any of you fans worried about the attendance for the debut show yet. I think it could be a disaster personally.

Tickets on Stubhub are starting at $6.00 with very little interest. I find this incredible as they were $20 face value plus StubHub takes a few cut. This means the seller will be losing over $15 per ticket.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

No attendance will be fine, just like it was at the PPVs.


----------



## AEWMoxley

sodiqlawal said:


> Are any of you fans worried about the attendance for the debut show yet. I think it could be a disaster personally.
> 
> Tickets on Stubhub are starting at $6.00 with very little interest. I find this incredible as they were $20 face value plus StubHub takes a few cut. This means the seller will be losing over $15 per ticket.


They haven't really given fans a reason to actually be hyped about the debut show, other than the fact that it's the debut. Who honestly gives a fuck about some random 6 man tag or about Stardust vs some no name geek?

However, the fact that NXT did 1.1 million viewers confirms that AEW will not only do more than 1 million, as I previously guaranteed, but they will do over 1.5 million easily. They can reach 2 million and I wouldn't at all be shocked. But just imagine the viewership they could have done if they actually had a big match or a hot angle heading into Oct 2.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sodiqlawal said:


> Are any of you fans worried about the attendance for the debut show yet. I think it could be a disaster personally.
> 
> Tickets on Stubhub are starting at $6.00 with very little interest. I find this incredible as they were $20 face value plus StubHub takes a few cut. This means the seller will be losing over $15 per ticket.


How many seats do you recon is on the secondary market?

Anything less than 2,500 won’t worry me - that means its 8k attending - pretty hefty crowd

I’m sure scalpers will be there on the day too


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How many seats do you recon is on the secondary market?
> 
> Anything less than 2,500 won’t worry me - that means its 8k attending - pretty hefty crowd
> 
> I’m sure scalpers will be there on the day too


Looks like a little over 1200 for the 10/2 show, if I’m reading it right.


----------



## rbl85

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Looks like a little over 1200 for the 10/2 show, if I’m reading it right.


They're is more or less 3500 seats on StubHub for DC.


----------



## RapShepard

As long as the tickets are sold I don't see the issue. I don't think the vast majority gives a fuck about if the building is sold out, as far as it pertains to whether they'll watch. If they have to put up some tarp or move fans up due to scalpers over doing it so what. 

Them selling out is more of a pissing contest between believers and detractors. Not something that decides if it's worth watching.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> They're is more or less 3500 seats on StubHub for DC.


Yeah, its over 3,000 on StubHub.

There a fuck load of tickets are also on resale at Ticketmaster too. Most of these tickets are probably duplicates from StubHub but not all so we're probably reaching over 4,000 tickets that aren't shifting at the moment.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sodiqlawal said:


> Yeah, its over 3,000 on StubHub.
> 
> There a fuck load of tickets are also on resale at Ticketmaster too. Most of these tickets are probably duplicates from StubHub but not all so we're probably reaching over 4,000 tickets that aren't shifting at the moment.


Mmm - house of 6k will still look grand on camera - which is all that matters

So, nah - not worried really

It’s not ideal - but I doubt we’ll be seeing tarp make an appearance - even if you shift everybody down a row on the day


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mmm - house of 6k will still look grand on camera - which is all that matters
> 
> So, nah - not worried really
> 
> It’s not ideal - but *I doubt we’ll be seeing tarp make an appearance *- even if you shift everybody down a row on the day


Some sections a empty and if it stay that way tarp will make his appearance


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> As long as the tickets are sold I don't see the issue. I don't think the vast majority gives a fuck about if the building is sold out, as far as it pertains to whether they'll watch. If they have to put up some tarp or move fans up due to scalpers over doing it so what.
> 
> Them selling out is more of a pissing contest between believers and detractors. Not something that decides if it's worth watching.


But it's important to point it out to the people with crazy expectations which was fuelled by Meltzer.

The dude was reporting over 100,000 were in queue for tickets and they could have easily sold out a stadium. Fans here took it as gospel. This is now clearly false as we are seeing now.

Anyway the Wednesday Night Wars should be entertaining (at least of this forum). NXT started with 1.2m so it might be a lot closer than people expect as neither show will get over 1m consistently in my opinion.


----------



## RapShepard

sodiqlawal said:


> But it's important to point it out to the people with crazy expectations which was fuelled by Meltzer.
> 
> 
> 
> The dude was reporting over 100,000 were in queue for tickets and they could have easily sold out a stadium. Fans here took it as gospel. This is now clearly false as we are seeing now.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway the Wednesday Night Wars should be entertaining (at least of this forum). NXT started with 1.2m so it might be a lot closer than people expect as neither show will get over 1m consistently in my opinion.


I do get that aspect, but thats more about the pissing contest I was discussing. It's definitely fun to shit on folks opinions, no matter which side you're on though.


----------



## rbl85

sodiqlawal said:


> But it's important to point it out to the people with crazy expectations which was fuelled by Meltzer.
> 
> *The dude was reporting over 100,000 were in queue for tickets and they could have easily sold out a stadium. Fans here took it as gospel. This is now clearly false as we are seeing now.*
> 
> Anyway the Wednesday Night Wars should be entertaining (at least of this forum). NXT started with 1.2m so it might be a lot closer than people expect as neither show will get over 1m consistently in my opinion.



I don't know if there was 100.000 people in the queue (i think that was for DON or All Out but not for DC) but i know that when i was in the queue there was way more than 10.000 people in front of me.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I do get that aspect, but thats more about the pissing contest I was discussing. It's definitely fun to shit on folks opinions, no matter which side you're on though.


Yes, but it's all part of the fun. I used to love browsing on here during the days TNA was popular.


----------



## RapShepard

sodiqlawal said:


> Yes, but it's all part of the fun. I used to love browsing on here during the days TNA was popular.


True, but yeah I just don't think any AEW diehards should be worried if they aren't putting a butt in every available seat.


----------



## AEWMoxley

sodiqlawal said:


> But it's important to point it out to the people with crazy expectations which was fuelled by Meltzer.
> 
> The dude was reporting over 100,000 were in queue for tickets and they could have easily sold out a stadium. Fans here took it as gospel. This is now clearly false as we are seeing now.
> 
> Anyway the Wednesday Night Wars should be entertaining (at least of this forum). NXT started with 1.2m so it might be a lot closer than people expect as neither show will get over 1m consistently in my opinion.


That wasn't false at all, and this doesn't disprove his report. His report literally came from ticketing agencies. All this proves is that there is way less demand for the debut than there was for All Out when tickets went on sale. That was expected. The entire reason why scalpers overbought the debut was because they missed out on All Out's record setting demand.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Did any tickets go on sale today? Any updates on sales?


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> Did any tickets go on sale today? Any updates on sales?


Yep for Indianapolis and it's going pretty well


----------



## Claro De Luna

rbl85 said:


> Yep for Indianapolis and it's going pretty well


How many remaining?


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> How many remaining?


Impossible to know for the moment.


----------



## Tilon

sodiqlawal said:


> The dude was reporting over 100,000 were in queue for tickets


Anyone who reports that number based on the queue line is an idiot.

I was in the line. Many people have multiple browsers, incognito versions of those browsers, etc. because each one gave you another spot in line that day. 

Ticketmaster is presumably limiting by IP, I wasn't able to use the trick that day.

And don't crap on me for doing it, if it's possible to do, I do it because the scalpers are doing it.


----------



## The Wood

sodiqlawal said:


> Are any of you fans worried about the attendance for the debut show yet. I think it could be a disaster personally.
> 
> Tickets on Stubhub are starting at $6.00 with very little interest. I find this incredible as they were $20 face value plus StubHub takes a few cut. This means the seller will be losing over $15 per ticket.


No one is worried about anything. Everything is fine and going to be fine forever. Until it’s not fine. Then they’ll retroactively diagnose the issues after it’s too late for them to be fixed.


----------



## BigCy

sodiqlawal said:


> But it's important to point it out to the people with crazy expectations which was fuelled by Meltzer.
> 
> The dude was reporting over 100,000 were in queue for tickets and they could have easily sold out a stadium. Fans here took it as gospel. This is now clearly false as we are seeing now.
> 
> Anyway the Wednesday Night Wars should be entertaining (at least of this forum). NXT started with 1.2m so it might be a lot closer than people expect as neither show will get over 1m consistently in my opinion.


I think it was true but it's just that fans have lost a lot of interest since then. I think they'll do decent numbers but I think they lost quite a few people who were on the fence based on some of the questionable things they have done.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Some sections a empty and if it stay that way tarp will make his appearance


Source? I’ve gone through Stubhub now, and there is not one section I could see where the majority of seats of a section were on there

Maybe I missed something?


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Source? I’ve gone through Stubhub now, and there is not one section I could see where the majority of seats of a section were on there
> 
> Maybe I missed something?


He's right. they didnt release tickets for a significant section. The place holds over 18,000 and last WWE C PPV (Battleground) there had 15,000.

I'm hearing AEW only released about 10,000 so obviously certain sections were not opened up. You can tell on StubHub when you see one side all greyed out.

Nothing wrong with tarp, its a big arena. Just a bit embarrassing as a first show with all the hype about 'sold out' even though it wasn't to capacity.


----------



## rbl85

sodiqlawal said:


> He's right. they didnt release tickets for a significant section. The place holds over 18,000 and last WWE C PPV (Battleground) there had 15,000.
> 
> I'm hearing AEW only released about 10,000 so obviously certain sections were not opened up. You can tell on StubHub when you see one side all greyed out.
> 
> Nothing wrong with tarp, its a big arena. Just a bit embarrassing as a first show with all the hype about 'sold out' even though it wasn't to capacity.


You can't do 15.000 seats in this Arena for a wrestling show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> You can't do 15.000 seats in this Arena for a wrestling show.


https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Capital_One_Arena

Yes, you can. Stop making excuses without checking facts. It's not a good look.

Battleground 2016 did just over 15k. Summerslam 2005 did over 18k. Those two are wrestling shows.


----------



## rbl85

sodiqlawal said:


> https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Capital_One_Arena
> 
> Yes, you can. Stop making excuses without checking facts. It's not a good look.
> 
> Battleground 2016 did just over 15k. Summerslam 2005 did over 18k. Those two are wrestling shows.


I forgot that in two weeks it's a PPV.....


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> I forgot that in two weeks it's a PPV.....


More excuses, rather than admitting you were wrong about arena not being able to hold 15k.

And i'd say AEW first ever live TV event is a bigger event than WWE Battleground, but whatever.

You're exactly the type of AEW fan people can't have a constructive discussion with as there's always an excuse.


----------



## rbl85

sodiqlawal said:


> More excuses, rather than admitting you were wrong about arena not being bole to hold 15k.
> 
> And i'd say AEW first ever live TV event is a bigger event than WWE Battleground, but whatever.
> 
> You're exactly the type of *AEW fan people can't have a constructive discussion with as there's always an excuse.*



LOL

You're quick at judging people aren't you ?


----------



## The Wood

BigCy said:


> I think it was true but it's just that fans have lost a lot of interest since then. I think they'll do decent numbers but I think they lost quite a few people who were on the fence based on some of the questionable things they have done.


100% this. 46% of people who ordered All Out ordered Double or Nothing. Doing some estimates of buyrates, it means they retained 40% of that paying audience that were willing to check out Double or Nothing _before_ it was even really promoted. These are the hardcores. I'm sorry, but there's no way around that being bad. You are closer to a third of people turning into repeat customers than even half. You don't want a 40% approval rate. 

And if you line up that floating audience that tunes into WWE when it is promoted to a 20x increase for TV from PPV, then it pretty much matches up to a 40% decrease in viewership too. By that I mean I think they should be able to get 3.26 million eyeballs out the gate, but when you consider the business they do on PPV with the hardcore fans, a 60% decrease is 1.3 million, while 20x 63k buys is 1.26 million. I think it's a fairly safe bet that they're going to end up around that mark. They will call that a success, and it is to an extent, but when NXT starts to attract more people, it will be obvious that AEW is just another TNA. They should be aiming to be WCW. Especially when it's that delicious TV money that makes this an appealing venture and is the selling point to more billionaires getting involved in wrestling. I can't see TNT cancelling a show doing those numbers, but will they break bank or just cover production costs? They're not really the sort of numbers that are worth $200 million for the show. Will Tony Khan be able to keep paying Jericho and JR, for example, those giant contracts? How much does AEW need to do on PPV to be profitable? If they end up doing about 64k buys a show and there's a 50/50 split with AEW and PPV, that has each PPV making them $1.6 million and then there's $1.6 million to split between AEW and Warner. If that is 50/50 again (and that would be generous to AEW), then they'll getting about $800,000 a PPV. I imagine each show would cost about that much to put on. Those are just domestic numbers of course, but this isn't necessarily going to be a giant money-making machine with that scope. 

That 40% retention rate is something to keep an eye on, because these are first impressions, and turning off people at that rate highlights that the people who accuse people like Jim Cornette of being out of touch are actually out of touch themselves. It also means that there is room for a product that caters to that 60%. There could potentially be something bigger than AEW. Whether that is filled by someone new or an investor that decides to back MLW or the NWA. It can be hard to get pre-existing brands noticed. But those 60% of people could be close to 2 million viewers on basic cable and could be close to 100k domestic buys on PPV _on their own_. That says nothing of the 40% who like AEW and would probably watch something good, WWE fans who could use something else, and the lapsed pro-wrestling fan that doesn't like WWE anymore or never even liked the WWF. 

My optimism for the future of wrestling lies in NXT changing the perception that the WWE needs Vince McMahon, so he can step away and let things be run autonomously and that someone in wrestling that is keeping an eye on this gets the ear of a billionaire and points out all the money being left on the table by All Elite. People wonder why Vince gave Heyman and Bischoff the positions he did. It's not because he's worried about them going to AEW (although Heyman would be a concern), but rather he probably wants the people who can whisper to TV executives that "there's a slice being forgotten here."


----------



## Chan Hung

First show on TNT should do least 600,000-1.1 million


----------



## rbl85

Some of the people who bought DON on PPV bought All Out on B/R live.


----------



## patpat

the 100K people in queue was for all out , not the tv show. when people want to bullshit they can at least check their shit 
and no they didnt set the arena for 10k , from Bryan Alvarez and PWtorch they sold 10K tickets in one hour, but the show sold out in 2 ours ( so it can't be an arena set for 10K) or maybe the fans for the following hour were buying invisible tickets. Dave said on one of the observer radio they were setting the arena for around 14k and would release more later. 
I know some people are quick to jump on Meltzer and accuse him of EVERYTHING, but please before you do take the time to actually listen or fucking read what the guy says and write. the demand for all out was 100k and thats on all out he made all the comments 
in fact in the observer radio Dave was saying they won't sellout in Washington and its Bryan Alvarez who was saying it will sellout. 
some retards can't even differentiate the two guys and multiple times I have seen braindead on internet saying Dave said something when it was Alvarez saying it 
it's embarrassing


----------



## Cataclysm

Chan Hung said:


> First show on TNT should do least 600,000-1.1 million


Yeah that is a reasonable range I'm guessing it's probably gonna be like 800k


----------



## bradatar

Cataclysm said:


> Yeah that is a reasonable range I'm guessing it's probably gonna be like 800k


That's the number I'm guessing too, but NXT shocked me by their number.


----------



## headstar

It's 2019 not 2009. Interest in wrestling isn't what it was a decade ago. No reason to expect anything over 600k viewers. Also, with AEW's "fuck the casuals" attitude, they most likely won't even get that.


----------



## patpat

I think it's better to wait and see at this point I cant even predict
What fuck the casual are people talking about? 1) the casuals wont even see this comment and 2) that's not even what the guy said......
This comment didnt prevent them from getting 400k viewers on a dead slot at 10 pm a Friday with no promotion...


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

headstar said:


> It's 2019 not 2009. Interest in wrestling isn't what it was a decade ago. No reason to expect anything over 600k viewers. Also, with AEW's "fuck the casuals" attitude, they most likely won't even get that.


Nobody ever said fuck the casuals. Big difference between not targeting them and fucking them.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I havent seen anything to make me think they're disregarding the casual audience, if anything they have tried some things to appeal to the casual audience that normally I'm not sure they would have. 

Either way, its way too early for anyone to be calling anything. The 1st show hasn't even aired yet, they are going to have build things up totally from scratch and it's going to take time. The fact that they are selling out TV and PPV is a great sign but we have nothing to go off of for longevity sake. 

I think they know they are gonna have to appeal to a wider audience and guys like Jericho, Mox, Cody, etc. will help them do that. But they have a whole roster of talent that they have to get over to a nation wide audience, this is not something that gonna happen overnight in most cases.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Are there even casual fans to target these days?


----------



## TD Stinger

I'm horrible with predictions, especially when it comes to ratings.

But I've bee thinking at least a million for their debut episode. I'm sticking with that one.


----------



## RapShepard

What's a number rating wise that would be considered disappointing?


----------



## V-Trigger

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1176291478424997889


----------



## NXT Only

It’s going to do a good TV number because people don’t have to pay to watch it. 

So those who are attendance will be obvious people from the DMV area and surrounding parts. 

However those domestically will watch, those who avoided paying PPV but wanted to watch will watch. WWE fans will watch just to see. 

Figure everyone who watched NXT will tune in at some point, at least a large portion. Then the AEW-Only fan base, at least a few thousand, few hundred thousand casuals. And then people who just stumble upon it. 

They’ll do around 1.5-2M. Cliffhangers will be important to bring people back.


----------



## Bosnian21

If I had to give a prediction, I’d go with 800,000. We have to remember the NXT 1.1 million number is without a competing program. So some people will make a choice to watch one or the other.


----------



## Taroostyles

RapShepard said:


> What's a number rating wise that would be considered disappointing?


If they did under 750k I would say that would be very surprising. They have over 700k followers on IG and talent like Jericho who has over 3 million. 

Supposedly there were 100k people trying to get All Out tickets so even if that's not totally accurate you have to extrapolate out. Impact routinely did over 1 million on Spike and I can safely say the mainstream awareness of AEW is higher than Impact ever was. 

Now the hardcore fans are going to likely be switching between this and NXT so that will have some impact as well. From a network perspective I'm sure the eventual expectation is 1m+ every single week and considering the backing and the level they are already at, I think that's pretty reasonable. 

So under 750k would be bad. On the flip side of they do like a crazy number like 1.5 million then people will be freaking out and expect Stone Cold on NXT the following week lol.


----------



## RapShepard

Taroostyles said:


> If they did under 750k I would say that would be very surprising. They have over 700k followers on IG and talent like Jericho who has over 3 million.
> 
> 
> 
> Supposedly there were 100k people trying to get All Out tickets so even if that's not totally accurate you have to extrapolate out. Impact routinely did over 1 million on Spike and I can safely say the mainstream awareness of AEW is higher than Impact ever was.
> 
> 
> 
> Now the hardcore fans are going to likely be switching between this and NXT so that will have some impact as well. From a network perspective I'm sure the eventual expectation is 1m+ every single week and considering the backing and the level they are already at, I think that's pretty reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> So under 750k would be bad. On the flip side of they do like a crazy number like 1.5 million then people will be freaking out and expect Stone Cold on NXT the following week lol.


Sheesh I'd think 500k or less was bad. But it'll be interesting to see what they get. I know there free shows for FyterFest, Fight for the Fallen, and the hype show for All Out did around 400k each. So I honestly don't know what to expect. NXT doing over a million was hopefully a good sign. Though maybe that's just the power of the WWE brand.


----------



## Taroostyles

On a channel in primetime like TNT 500k would be a very low number. 

Just with the interest level as high as it has been, I cant see them expecting less than 750-800k viewers. I honestly think that's on the conservative side too. I personally know atleast half a dozen friends who havent watched wrestling in years who already told me they will be watching. The awareness of this is definitely there beyond the hardcore realm.


----------



## RapShepard

Taroostyles said:


> On a channel in primetime like TNT 500k would be a very low number.
> 
> 
> 
> Just with the interest level as high as it has been, I cant see them expecting less than 750-800k viewers. I honestly think that's on the conservative side too. I personally know atleast half a dozen friends who havent watched wrestling in years who already told me they will be watching. The awareness of this is definitely there beyond the hardcore realm.


Idk when shows liie Atlanta are winning awards and consistently getting comfortably under a million views it's hard to know what TV wants these days.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Some of the people who bought DON on PPV bought All Out on B/R live.


Yeah, we know that 46% of the people who ordered All Out ordered DON. It doesn’t matter on which medium. Since we know numbers were down, we can estimate that only 40% of DON customers came back. 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> headstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's 2019 not 2009. Interest in wrestling isn't what it was a decade ago. No reason to expect anything over 600k viewers. Also, with AEW's "fuck the casuals" attitude, they most likely won't even get that.
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody ever said fuck the casuals. Big difference between not targeting them and fucking them.
Click to expand...

When you break kayfabe you are saying “fuck the casuals.”



The Raw Smackdown said:


> Are there even casual fans to target these days?


Of course there are. There are more people who used to watch wrestling than currently watch wrestling. There is also a large floating audience of about 2 million people that tune in and out when big things are pushed. 



RapShepard said:


> What's a number rating wise that would be considered disappointing?


I think anything under what TNT usually does in that slot is disappointing. I can’t remember if that’s 1 million or 900k. Meltzer is setting the bar low at 500k, but that is just so that when they predictably beat it they can overhype the achievement. 

The first rating should be huge. Honestly, there’s no reason it shouldn’t be over 3 million people. It’s a fresh wrestling show on TNT with no WWE association. That is predictable and WWE should be ready for NXT to get thrashed one night. But if they stay the course and AEW is going to war with what they’ve got, things will turn around really fast.


----------



## Taroostyles

3 million? So you think their very 1st episode should have higher viewership than Raw or SD currently have? 

Come on, that's not even remotely reasonable. The 1st Nitro ran unopposed with Raw being prempted and only did a 2.5 and that was with Hogan, Flair, Savage, and Sting on the roster.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> 3 million? So you think their very 1st episode should have higher viewership than Raw or SD currently have?
> 
> Come on, that's not even remotely reasonable. The 1st Nitro ran unopposed with Raw being prempted and only did a 2.5 and that was with Hogan, Flair, Savage, and Sting on the roster.


Raw or SmackDown used to get over 3 million consistently without a big promotional launch. There are so many people out there that are going to see an AEW commercial, trailer or billboard that should be excited to check out wrestling that is specifically _not_ Raw or SmackDown. As of January 2018, there were 2 million fans floating around that tuned in to a dreadful Raw that received heavy promotion. These are people who don't normally watch but follow along. 

Wrestling has not only lost viewers because cable is being cut. That's a factor, but it has also lost viewers because it is terrible. People will watch good wrestling, and the only way they will know if it is good is if they tune in and give it a go.


----------



## Death Rider

Taroostyles said:


> 3 million? So you think their very 1st episode should have higher viewership than Raw or SD currently have?
> 
> Come on, that's not even remotely reasonable. The 1st Nitro ran unopposed with Raw being prempted and only did a 2.5 and that was with Hogan, Flair, Savage, and Sting on the roster.


Exactly some people have the most ludicrous expectations. If you are expecting them to beat raw on their first show, you are insane lol.


----------



## The Wood

Death Rider said:


> Taroostyles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 3 million? So you think their very 1st episode should have higher viewership than Raw or SD currently have?
> 
> Come on, that's not even remotely reasonable. The 1st Nitro ran unopposed with Raw being prempted and only did a 2.5 and that was with Hogan, Flair, Savage, and Sting on the roster.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly some people have the most ludicrous expectations. If you are expecting them to beat raw on their first show, you are insane lol.
Click to expand...

Have you seen their promotional scope?


----------



## validreasoning

Last Nitro did around 2 million viewers and that was a boom period for pro wrestling in the US at the time.

Raw did average 3 million a few years ago live but that was 40% female viewers, 25% kids under 18 (many under 10 years old). Those aren't segments that AEW seems to attract or market to. Maybe if they sign Cena and the Bella Twins they gain some of those viewers.


----------



## Taroostyles

I do agree their promotional scope has been impressive and TNT should be applauded for the amount of push they are giving them. 

But still, there is 0% chance anyone is expecting them to beat out WWEs flagships on the 1st week. We know there are a couple million lapsed fans out there who aren't tuning in to WWE but that doesnt mean they are all gonna tune in right away. We are talking 9 years since the last live wrestling in primetime and 18 years since the last viable competition existed. 

What I would expect is something big to close the show as they have to be aware that they need to capture as many viewers as possible to keep them tuning in.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It’ll be 1.4

Screenshot this 

I’ve been wrong many times before though... and might be this time too.


----------



## BigCy

I think they'll get around a 1.5-2 for the first week and then depending what they do it will either drop sharply or stay around the same. They NEED a good and big first show to keep and gain people's interest, if they do a bunch of hokey stuff like they did with their first pre-shows and it becomes an Elite circle jerk then they will turn a lot more people off. They need a big name like Punk or something showing up and they need to cliffhanger their shows where you feel like you HAVE to watch the next one, good storytelling and good drama and action can attract casuals. The most successful programs do this.


----------



## The XL 2

Anything under 1 million is a catastrophic failure imo. I'm hoping for 1.3-1.5 mil


----------



## Gn1212

As some said they have to go big. First impressions are first impressions. Give people a Punk and the buzz will last a month. By that time you've already got your unknown guys exposed enough for people to care.


----------



## validreasoning

MLB wildcard game is on either ESPN or TBS next Wednesday night so that will effect both NXT and AEW numbers I would imagine.

That game does big live viewership


----------



## rbl85

Gn1212 said:


> As some said they have to go big. First impressions are first impressions. *Give people a Punk and the buzz will last a month.* By that time you've already got your unknown guys exposed enough for people to care.


"give people a Punk"....

The guy don't want to wrestle anymore , how many times does he have to say it ?!


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> "give people a Punk"....
> 
> The guy don't want to wrestle anymore , how many times does he have to say it ?!


Until he dies lol.


----------



## Aedubya

Edit:


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> I do agree their promotional scope has been impressive and TNT should be applauded for the amount of push they are giving them.
> 
> But still, there is 0% chance anyone is expecting them to beat out WWEs flagships on the 1st week. We know there are a couple million lapsed fans out there who aren't tuning in to WWE but that doesnt mean they are all gonna tune in right away. We are talking 9 years since the last live wrestling in primetime and 18 years since the last viable competition existed.
> 
> What I would expect is something big to close the show as they have to be aware that they need to capture as many viewers as possible to keep them tuning in.


They won’t be SmackDown that week. God no. But there was no reason they can’t beat your average shitty SmackDown.

But this thing is losing steam big time. A very disappointing TV deal in the UK. Charging people for it live. Not a great look. 

I’m going to guess 1.36 for the debut show now. There will be desperados who will brag about this beating NXT’s first night, but that number is going to go down.


----------



## TAC41

Lmao, scalpers are trying to unload tickets to their tv debut for $10 and still nobody is buying. Where’s all the AEW white knights that were triggered because I truthfully said all the sellouts were only a result of scalpers who would later take a huge hit on tickets?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

TAC41 said:


> Lmao, scalpers are trying to unload tickets to their tv debut for $10 and still nobody is buying. Where’s all the AEW white knights that were triggered because I truthfully said all the sellouts were only a result of scalpers who would later take a huge hit on tickets?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There was definitely something behind scalpers getting in, but that's also because it _was_ a hot ticket. And the hysteria from the media that reports on it didn't really explain that it was a small audience of the same people lining up the same times and that wasn't going to happen forever.


----------



## headstar

validreasoning said:


> *Last Nitro did around 2 million viewers and that was a boom period for pro wrestling in the US at the time.
> *
> Raw did average 3 million a few years ago live but that was 40% female viewers, 25% kids under 18 (many under 10 years old). Those aren't segments that AEW seems to attract or market to. Maybe if they sign Cena and the Bella Twins they gain some of those viewers.


The final Nitro did a 3.0. Which is over 4 million viewers and the average Nitro was still getting 2.Xs (over 3 million viewers) in 2001. AEW will get less than 1/4 of that at best. It's a pipe dream that an upstart wrestling promotion with practically no star power will get close to 1 million viewers in 2019.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> They won’t be SmackDown that week. God no. But there was no reason they can’t beat your average shitty SmackDown.
> 
> But this thing is losing steam big time. A very disappointing TV deal in the UK. Charging people for it live. Not a great look.
> 
> I’m going to guess 1.36 for the debut show now. There will be desperados who will brag about this beating NXT’s first night, but that number is going to go down.


Losing steam big time lol

So much hyperbole


----------



## TheLooseCanon

The Wood said:


> But this thing is losing steam big time.


*kobe bitch please face gif*

With who? Every wrestling fan I know (half of which has stopped watching shitty ass Double U Double U E :cole) are fucking pumped for this.


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> They won’t be SmackDown that week. God no. But there was no reason they can’t beat your average shitty SmackDown.
> 
> But this thing is losing steam big time. A very disappointing TV deal in the UK. Charging people for it live. Not a great look.
> 
> I’m going to guess 1.36 for the debut show now. There will be desperados who will brag about this beating NXT’s first night, but that number is going to go down.
> 
> 
> 
> Losing steam big time lol
> 
> So much hyperbole
Click to expand...




TheLooseCanon said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> But this thing is losing steam big time.
> 
> 
> 
> *kobe bitch please face gif*
> 
> With who? Every wrestling fan I know (half of which has stopped watching shitty ass Double U Double U E <img src="http://i.imgur.com/wh9boJm.png" border="0" alt="" title="Cole" class="inlineimg" />) are fucking pumped for this.
Click to expand...

I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%. 

We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.* 

Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth. 

They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period. 

I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%.
> 
> We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.*
> 
> Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth.
> 
> They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period.
> 
> I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.


You’ve convinced me, guess I’ll stop watching now

Oh well.... wonder what is on netflix :’(


----------



## Claro De Luna

The Wood said:


> I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%.
> 
> We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.*
> 
> Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth.
> 
> They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period.
> 
> I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.


You should get out a bit more. Go get some sex.


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%.
> 
> We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.*
> 
> Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth.
> 
> They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period.
> 
> I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> You’ve convinced me, guess I’ll stop watching now
> 
> Oh well.... wonder what is on netflix :’(
Click to expand...

 gotta love how the dude also ignores that the traditional ppv were down but the be live were up, itv were up and fite TV were up. And the ppv did around 100k 110k ( which pushed meltzer and some to wonder if aew created new fana because the people who bought don didnt massively buy AO 
Or also how we forget to point out that some people simply will not buy other ppv because in 2k19 not everyone is going to buy 2 ppv that cost 50$ 
That's this place, each person uses the numbers and spins it to fit their narrative.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Claro De Luna said:


> You should get out a bit more. Go get some sex.


“now, now Arthur, I’m sure this jabroni has a perfectly good reason for being a pent-up bitch monkey.”


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

patpat said:


> gotta love how the dude also ignores that the traditional ppv were down but the be live were up, itv were up and fite TV were up. And the ppv did around 100k 110k ( which pushed meltzer and some to wonder if aew created new fana because the people who bought don didnt massively buy AO
> Or also how we forget to point out that some people simply will not buy other ppv because in 2k19 not everyone is going to buy 2 ppv that cost 50$
> That's this place, each person uses the numbers and spins it to fit their narrative.


I was bored, so I checked his post which is usually on my ‘ignore’ list - and immediately I was like ‘yep, right calls were made to ignore’

Especially since he defended the NXT ratings drop as ‘normal and logical’, but writes this BS about AEW

Hahahhaha wheeeeee

Obvious troll is obvious

Anyway... back to the Rugby today


----------



## validreasoning

headstar said:


> validreasoning said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Last Nitro did around 2 million viewers and that was a boom period for pro wrestling in the US at the time.
> *
> Raw did average 3 million a few years ago live but that was 40% female viewers, 25% kids under 18 (many under 10 years old). Those aren't segments that AEW seems to attract or market to. Maybe if they sign Cena and the Bella Twins they gain some of those viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> The final Nitro did a 3.0. Which is over 4 million viewers and the average Nitro was still getting 2.Xs (over 3 million viewers) in 2001. AEW will get less than 1/4 of that at best. It's a pipe dream that an upstart wrestling promotion with practically no star power will get close to 1 million viewers in 2019.
Click to expand...

There was about 65 million cable homes in late 2000 so a 3 would be 3 percent of that.

Cable homes peaked in 2009-11 at 100+ million homes which is why e.g raw had far more actual viewers in 2009 watching than 2003 

NXT got 1.2 million for it's debut last week with little to no promotion and nobody that had worked cable TV previously. AEW is costing far more to run than NXT, getting more promotion and has bigger names, Jericho likely makes more than everyone who performed on nxt combined.

I don't see it doing less than 1.3 million if it drew 390,000 viewers for a preshow show at 10pm on a Friday night.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%.
> 
> We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.*
> 
> Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth.
> 
> They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period.
> 
> I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> You’ve convinced me, guess I’ll stop watching now
> 
> Oh well.... wonder what is on netflix :’(
Click to expand...

Is that an attempt at sarcasm to avoid engaging with the point? I’m not telling you not to watch, I’m telling you that people won’t. 



Claro De Luna said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%.
> 
> We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.*
> 
> Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth.
> 
> They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period.
> 
> I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> You should get out a bit more. Go get some sex.
Click to expand...

Sure, try and insult someone’s sex life instead of making a valid point. It’s a bit odd it’s coming from hardcore wrestling fans. Hey, some of us don’t have a problem getting laid though. Chicks dig dudes who can make a great point. ;-) 



patpat said:


> LifeInCattleClass said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can address these both in one swipe. Latest traditional PPV numbers in. 29,000 for All Out. This is down from 39,000 for Double or Nothing. The PPV buys are down over 25%.
> 
> We also know that 46% of All Out’s buyers, on traditional and OTT, bought DON. This means that about 13,500 people who watched DON on traditional PPV ordered All Out. Do you know what retention rate that is from DON? *34.5%.*
> 
> Those numbers do not lie. 1/3 people who ordered DON on traditional PPV came back for AO. And before you do the “they bought it on Fite” thing. No, they didn’t. Not in droves. The overall buys were down and the 46% statistic held. Most people who watched the first PPV didn’t watch the second. That’s just the bare-boned truth.
> 
> They are no longer the hot ticket. I’m pretty sure you can grab tickets to most of their TVs and even their upcoming PPV. This is still supposed to be the honeymoon period.
> 
> I’m not being a “hater” when I say this. These are just facts. You can dispute why these metrics are cooling off, but to deny that they are is just lying to yourselves.
> 
> 
> 
> You’ve convinced me, guess I’ll stop watching now
> 
> Oh well.... wonder what is on netflix :’(
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> gotta love how the dude also ignores that the traditional ppv were down but the be live were up, itv were up and fite TV were up. And the ppv did around 100k 110k ( which pushed meltzer and some to wonder if aew created new fana because the people who bought don didnt massively buy AO
> Or also how we forget to point out that some people simply will not buy other ppv because in 2k19 not everyone is going to buy 2 ppv that cost 50$
> That's this place, each person uses the numbers and spins it to fit their narrative.
Click to expand...

Those are the international numbers. The traditional PPV and B/R Live numbers were down domestically. The overall number for the show is down, so saying that the numbers on FITE are up is trivial, because it doesn’t make up for them being down.

Meltzer said it has “staying power,” which is his bias showing. Staying power would be retaining viewers. They made a first impression on a whole bunch of new people, and I bet less than half of them liked it too. 

If you actually read what I said, you’d notice that I said that the reason for this debatable. The cost of PPV could be a factor. But that’s still an issue AEW faces. But I would be very surprised if that was the chief reason people didn’t buy the second PPV. My guess would be that most were underwhelmed. 36% is _low_.



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Claro De Luna said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should get out a bit more. Go get some sex.
> 
> 
> 
> “now, now Arthur, I’m sure this jabroni has a perfectly good reason for being a pent-up bitch monkey.”
Click to expand...

Hey, more attempts at insults. But sure, call me the troll. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> gotta love how the dude also ignores that the traditional ppv were down but the be live were up, itv were up and fite TV were up. And the ppv did around 100k 110k ( which pushed meltzer and some to wonder if aew created new fana because the people who bought don didnt massively buy AO
> Or also how we forget to point out that some people simply will not buy other ppv because in 2k19 not everyone is going to buy 2 ppv that cost 50$
> That's this place, each person uses the numbers and spins it to fit their narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> I was bored, so I checked his post which is usually on my ‘ignore’ list - and immediately I was like ‘yep, right calls were made to ignore’
> 
> Especially since he defended the NXT ratings drop as ‘normal and logical’, but writes this BS about AEW
> 
> Hahahhaha wheeeeee
> 
> Obvious troll is obvious
> 
> Anyway... back to the Rugby today <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

Sounds like you check me out a lot. What isn’t logical about the NXT drop? They lost about 100,000 viewers from a debut to episode two, which by all accounts was a least urgent presentation. That’s minuscule compared to an estimated drop of 20% from one PPV to the next with a 36% retention rate. Eventually you are going to run out of people willing to give you a go. 



validreasoning said:


> headstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> validreasoning said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Last Nitro did around 2 million viewers and that was a boom period for pro wrestling in the US at the time.
> *
> Raw did average 3 million a few years ago live but that was 40% female viewers, 25% kids under 18 (many under 10 years old). Those aren't segments that AEW seems to attract or market to. Maybe if they sign Cena and the Bella Twins they gain some of those viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> The final Nitro did a 3.0. Which is over 4 million viewers and the average Nitro was still getting 2.Xs (over 3 million viewers) in 2001. AEW will get less than 1/4 of that at best. It's a pipe dream that an upstart wrestling promotion with practically no star power will get close to 1 million viewers in 2019.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There was about 65 million cable homes in late 2000 so a 3 would be 3 percent of that.
> 
> Cable homes peaked in 2009-11 at 100+ million homes which is why e.g raw had far more actual viewers in 2009 watching than 2003
> 
> NXT got 1.2 million for it's debut last week with little to no promotion and nobody that had worked cable TV previously. AEW is costing far more to run than NXT, getting more promotion and has bigger names, Jericho likely makes more than everyone who performed on nxt combined.
> 
> I don't see it doing less than 1.3 million if it drew 390,000 viewers for a preshow show at 10pm on a Friday night.
Click to expand...

You’re speaking too much sense.


----------



## Chan Hung

OldPsychology said:


> They need to beat NXT to be seen as competitive to WWE, they can't lose to developmental.
> 
> They need to cater to casuals, to the 10 million people which is the least of the total Market and not cater to a niche fanatic market that's capped at 1.5 million people which WWE is catering to, of which will never stop watching as long as the term "wrestling" is in the name.


Are you delusional in forgetting that NXT has the WWE machine hype behind it? Plus USA is a major network. But yes if AEW beats NXT that will.be big news.


----------



## Seafort

Viewership tomorrow night will be *1.71M*. Bank it.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Predicting around a 1.0


----------



## MetalKiwi

1.3 - 1.5


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

those of you who are not Nielsen families remember to watch or at least have aew dynamite running on your mobile device/computer using the tnt app or website so you can contribute to the ratings


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Over/under 3m viewers? I’m taking the under at 2.7m


----------



## The Wood

Hmm, it's tricky to call. I had them at 3.2 million, but that was a while ago. Things are definitely colder, not warmer. I'm now leaning more towards 2.6 as a starting point, but I can see that dropping by the end of the show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

They aint getting the same viewers as Raw lol. Are you both seriously predicting over 2.5m. Hardly anything on cable TV does better ratings than Raw

Also WWE was smart in putting it up against NXT which will take at least 500k viewers away. Anything over 1.5m is a massive success and i think it'll be just under that mark. Then a massive drop of 25% plus the following week which happens to most shows.


----------



## LongPig666

Don't care what numbers. As long as it doesn't have shit like Reigns, Rollins, Bliss, Lynch, Corbin etc I will be happy.


----------



## TAC41

The Wood said:


> Hmm, it's tricky to call. I had them at 3.2 million, but that was a while ago. Things are definitely colder, not warmer. I'm now leaning more towards 2.6 as a starting point, but I can see that dropping by the end of the show.




You’re trying really hard to sound like you know what you’re talking about, but we all k ow you’re full of shit and pulling numbers out of your ass with no reasoning. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

It's funny because if they do a big number it will not be a surprise.

But if they do number like NXT it will also not be a surprise

In fact it's quite hard to predict.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

1.4 - which will be seen as a massive success internally and externally

except by the chosen few, who hates everything


----------



## Dark Emperor

People wanted a source? Here you go, thousands of tickets on sale on StubHub from $6, basically every single section has loads of tickets on sale. But we are just WWE fanboys and tarp will not be needed.

https://www.stubhub.com/all-elite-w...ena-10-2-2019/event/104250494/?sort=price+asc


----------



## RapShepard

Number I'm guessing between a .9 - 1.5


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> Number I'm guessing between a .9 - 1.5


I think it should be on the high end of that. It's interesting.

Anything below 1m is a failure as you'd expect a 20% drop follow week.

Anything above 1.3m is success as it means they should be able to retain 1m viewers long term


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sodiqlawal said:


> People wanted a source? Here you go, thousands of tickets on sale on StubHub from $6, basically every single section has loads of tickets on sale. But we are just WWE fanboys and tarp will not be needed.
> 
> https://www.stubhub.com/all-elite-w...ena-10-2-2019/event/104250494/?sort=price+asc


Are you trying to sell the idea that having 7k or so people in an arena is somehow a failure?


----------



## RapShepard

sodiqlawal said:


> I think it should be on the high end of that. It's interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything below 1m is a failure as you'd expect a 20% drop follow week.
> 
> 
> 
> Anything above 1.3m is success as it means they should be able to retain 1m viewers long term


I personally don't think doing under a 1 would be a failure. They're brand new, wrestling isn't mainstream popular, and they're not WWE. For me something like a .5 or lower would be a failure. Seeing the rating other shows get it's hard to tell what's failing these days. But I do get from a wrestling fan sense that under 1 million is disheartening.


----------



## Dark Emperor

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Are you trying to sell the idea that having 7k or so people in an arena is somehow a failure?


Not a failure at all, just posting facts. People on other thread didnt believe as they wanted a source so i provided it. Now i wont mention it again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sodiqlawal said:


> Not a failure at all, just posting facts. People on other thread didnt believe as they wanted a source so i provided it. Now i wont mention it again.


Fair enough


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Are you trying to sell the idea that having 7k or so people in an arena is somehow a failure?


In fact they will be more than 12k people in the arena


----------



## BigCy

1.5-2.0 then dropping 15%-35% the weeks after depending how the first show does and if they can create cliffhanger moments at the end of the shows enticing people to want more then I can see a slow and slight growth over the course of a year topping off and remaining steady at about 1.6-1.7 after the drop and climb. There's a lot of ifs for that situation to happen and they'll need to do a lot of things right. Realistically I can see a steady 0.9-1.1 after the dust has settled.


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> sodiqlawal said:
> 
> 
> 
> People wanted a source? Here you go, thousands of tickets on sale on StubHub from $6, basically every single section has loads of tickets on sale. But we are just WWE fanboys and tarp will not be needed.
> 
> https://www.stubhub.com/all-elite-w...ena-10-2-2019/event/104250494/?sort=price+asc
> 
> 
> 
> Are you trying to sell the idea that having 7k or so people in an arena is somehow a failure?
Click to expand...

 there will be way more people than 7k. Its around 11k 12k considering what the arena was setup for


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> there will be way more people than 7k. Its around 11k 12k considering what the arena was setup for


The setup is for 15K no ?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Capacity is 18k, they only released and sold 10,500 tickets. After that, they didn't release anymore.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> there will be way more people than 7k. Its around 11k 12k considering what the arena was setup for
> 
> 
> 
> The setup is for 15K no ?
Click to expand...

 yes


----------



## rbl85

sodiqlawal said:


> Capacity is 18k, they only released and sold 10,500 tickets. After that, they didn't release anymore.


I count every seats on ticketmaster and there is exactly 15,763 seats.

Now i'm going to buy an other pair of eyes XD


----------



## TwistedLogic

The AEW TNT Special last night did 631K viewers. 

https://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=130082

hh


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> sodiqlawal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Capacity is 18k, they only released and sold 10,500 tickets. After that, they didn't release anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> I count every seats on ticketmaster and there is exactly 15,763 seats.
> 
> Now i'm going to buy an other pair of eyes XD
Click to expand...

 I dont know where people got the idea that they released only 10k , they sold 10k in one hour. The show was sold out in 2 hours. So it is clearly more than 10k , it is actually around 14k 15k confirmed by dave. 


And the countdown numbers are here 
631K 
Some people legit thought the show itself would do 600K lmaoo


----------



## Claro De Luna

*The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*

Very strong number for a highlight show. Imagine what the actual Dynamite show will do if a documentary show can do over 600k.


----------



## The XL 2

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*

That's not bad for an unadvertised hype show. I'm expecting the first AEW TV to do anywhere from 1.5 to 2 Mil. I'm hoping for the best.


----------



## Zappers

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*



Claro De Luna said:


> Very strong number for a highlight show. Imagine what the actual Dynamite show will do if a documentary show can do over 600k.


At least double. Maybe 2 million.


----------



## Dave Santos

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*



Zappers said:


> At least double. Maybe 2 million.


I was thinking that at first but had to remember they are on at the same time as NXT so that will eat some of their viewers.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*

Like i said before the really important number is not the number for this week but the one for next week.


----------



## TwistedLogic

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179503479951224832


----------



## HankHill_85

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*

And here I actually thought 500-600K viewers for the premiere episode would be a fair prediction, but I guess the sky's the limit.

Over 600,000 viewers for a barely-advertised hype show is insanity. Proves they're on the right path and doing something that's starting to stick. Congrats to the whole team.

I'd love nothing better than to see tonight's premiere hit 1-2 million viewers. That's not an indirect dig at WWE/NXT, but I'd just love to see AEW pop a huge number out of the gate that simply says, "The hype is real, we're not a flash in the pan and we're not going away."


----------



## Lethal Evans

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*

If AEW averages 1.5+ for the first 6 episodes, things will be incredibly exciting to watch


----------



## V-Trigger

Holy shit.


----------



## Zappers

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*



HankHill_85 said:


> And here I actually thought 500-600K viewers for the premiere episode would be a fair prediction, but I guess the sky's the limit.
> 
> Over 600,000 viewers for a barely-advertised hype show is insanity. Proves they're on the right path and doing something that's starting to stick. Congrats to the whole team.
> 
> I'd love nothing better than to see tonight's premiere hit 1-2 million viewers. That's not an indirect dig at WWE/NXT, but I'd just love to see AEW pop a huge number out of the gate that simply says, "The hype is real, we're not a flash in the pan and we're not going away."


To be fair both "barely-advertised hype show" for SD got double the numbers. And they were just old highlights, not explaining the product. AEW was almost a documentary on their business.


----------



## Ace

TwistedLogic said:


> The AEW TNT Special last night did 631K viewers.
> 
> https://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=130082
> 
> hh


 Wow.

Wrestling going to have 2 big numbers this week - AEW (obviously not as much as Raw) and SD (should be 3.5m+).


----------



## validreasoning

rbl85 said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> there will be way more people than 7k. Its around 11k 12k considering what the arena was setup for
> 
> 
> 
> The setup is for 15K no ?
Click to expand...

WWE setup in that venue is 13,500 with tron, 4th down from top http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2015/04/wwe-schedule-april-2015-march-2016.html

Setup tonight looks about 1,000 or so shy of that 


Ace said:


> TwistedLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The AEW TNT Special last night did 631K viewers.
> 
> https://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=130082
> 
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/lNVdbGf.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Ohh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Wrestling going to have 2 big numbers this week - AEW (obviously not as much as Raw) and SD (should be 3.5m+).
Click to expand...

631k has them trending to do about 2.1 million tonight


----------



## Ace

validreasoning said:


> WWE setup in that venue is 13,500 with tron, 4th down from top http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2015/04/wwe-schedule-april-2015-march-2016.html
> 
> Setup tonight looks about 1,000 or so shy of that
> 
> 
> 631k has them trending to do about 2.1 million tonight


 If AEW does 2.1m, Brock, Austin and Rock will be appearing on NXT until that number drops to mid 1m.


----------



## patpat

validreasoning said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> there will be way more people than 7k. Its around 11k 12k considering what the arena was setup for
> 
> 
> 
> The setup is for 15K no ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WWE setup in that venue is 13,500 with tron, 4th down from top http://indeedwrestling.blogspot.com/2015/04/wwe-schedule-april-2015-march-2016.html
> 
> Setup tonight looks about 1,000 or so shy of that
> 
> 
> Ace said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TwistedLogic said:
> 
> 
> 
> The AEW TNT Special last night did 631K viewers.
> 
> https://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=130082
> 
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/lNVdbGf.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Ohh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Wrestling going to have 2 big numbers this week - AEW (obviously not as much as Raw) and SD (should be 3.5m+).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 631k has them trending to do about 2.1 million tonight
Click to expand...

 meltzer did say they set it for 15k 15k 
And here pwinsider reported that they sold 10k in one hour. The show sold out in two hours. After that 2k more tickets were released 
And a user here used to ticketmaster too to determine that there is indeed 15k.

I dont think their rating will be this high tho , 2million is WAY too much


----------



## TD Stinger

So yeah, they're doing more than a million tonight. I honestly still laugh at the initial reports about people expecting 500k.

Honestly at this point the questions is over/under 1.5?


----------



## Lethal Evans

TD Stinger said:


> So yeah, they're doing more than a million tonight. I honestly still laugh at the initial reports about people expecting 500k.
> 
> Honestly at this point the questions is over/under 1.5?


Raw hit 2.57m, I can see AEW with how it's been marketed by TNT to hit 1.8-2.


----------



## Chrome

I say 1.3.


----------



## headstar

*Re: The Countdown To AEW special last night on TNT did 631k viewers*

I still doubt they will touch 1 million viewers. NXT will take away at least 500k potential viewers. Nothing about AEW currently warrants a big rating.

Also, crowning an untalented lady-boy as their first "women's" champion just for the sake of doing it could alienate people outside SJW circles. Not even WWE are that crazy with political correctness.


----------



## Chan Hung

Wow they did actually that well LOL that's insane



headstar said:


> I still doubt they will touch 1 million viewers. NXT will take away at least 500k potential viewers. Nothing about AEW currently warrants a big rating.
> 
> Also, crowning an untalented lady-boy as their first "women's" champion just for the sake of doing it could alienate people outside SJW circles. Not even WWE are that crazy with political correctness.


Jericho alone my friend is better than anything on NXT tonight take that and a little bit of bubbly along with it LOL


----------



## thegockster

It's not what they hit tonight, its what they hit in a months time


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

thegockster said:


> It's not what they hit tonight, its what they hit in a months time


And where would sir like their goalposts moved tonight?

You can only fight the fight before you


----------



## RKing85

I'm going just over a million for tonight's number. 1.1 or so. I think it is going to be a real war. NXT and AEW being very close in numbers week in and week out. A little each side of 1 million depending on the week for both shows.


----------



## Buhalovski

I put a bet for over 1.25 on 2.5 odds(3/2) just for the lols. Seems like a value one.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

'I'm with AEW' is trending.


----------



## thegockster

LifeInCattleClass said:


> And where would sir like their goalposts moved tonight?
> 
> You can only fight the fight before you


Where would sir like to start talking sense, I want them to succeed, your post does not surprise me though once a mark always a mark


----------



## The Wood

sodiqlawal said:


> They aint getting the same viewers as Raw lol. Are you both seriously predicting over 2.5m. Hardly anything on cable TV does better ratings than Raw
> 
> Also WWE was smart in putting it up against NXT which will take at least 500k viewers away. Anything over 1.5m is a massive success and i think it'll be just under that mark. Then a massive drop of 25% plus the following week which happens to most shows.


Raw doesn’t do that well because it’s WWE. It’s because it’s the closest thing to wrestling on basic cable. I think people are greatly underestimating the appeal of wrestling that is not WWE. There is no reason that wrestling can’t do as well, if not better than WWE programming. 



TAC41 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm, it's tricky to call. I had them at 3.2 million, but that was a while ago. Things are definitely colder, not warmer. I'm now leaning more towards 2.6 as a starting point, but I can see that dropping by the end of the show.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You’re trying really hard to sound like you know what you’re talking about, but we all k ow you’re full of shit and pulling numbers out of your ass with no reasoning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I can show my reasoning. All Out got about 63k PPV buys. These are from largely the hardest of the hardcore. A PPV audience is often representative of 5% of a TV audience. 63k x20 is 1.26. There were 2 million floating fans as of Raw 25. These are people who check out wrestling when it’s advertised. We know this number. 

I’ve decreased that floating number by 21%, which seems to be the interest decrease in wrestling. That’s my optimistic number. 

My cynical number is 1.8, which would indicate to me that a lot of those floating fans checked out DON and are the 60% that tuned out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

thegockster said:


> Where would sir like to start talking sense, I want them to succeed, your post does not surprise me though once a mark always a mark


....... eh... guilty


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Don’t underestimate AEW. I think they’ll get over 2.5m tonight. And will grow from there!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

This’ll be pretty easy. Based upon the last two weeks of NXT, they just need to get 1.1 million and they beat Wednesday nights. But think big, try to beat Raw’s numbers!


----------



## The Wood

RubberbandGoat said:


> Don’t underestimate AEW. I think they’ll get over 2.5m tonight. And will grow from there!





RubberbandGoat said:


> This’ll be pretty easy. Based upon the last two weeks of NXT, they just need to get 1.1 million and they beat Wednesday nights. But think big, try to beat Raw’s numbers!


It's not a case of underestimating AEW. No one knows who the fuck they are, which is actually a _good_ thing. You see wrestling advertised and it's got some names and voices you recognize, but it doesn't have that gross WWE logo all over it? There are a bunch of people that are going to be interested in that. But are they going to get _hooked_ on it. That's the issue. 

Doing a big debut will be easy with the advertising they have put out. There are billboards, previews, trailers and social media awareness. But that doesn't mean the product is good and that it is going to be able to retain that viewership.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Social media numbers and google trends has AEW beating NXT in a fucking demolition, the disparity is GIGANTIC. 

Let's see if that translates to Television viewership.


----------



## Boldgerg

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Social media numbers and google trends has AEW beating NXT in a fucking demolition, the disparity is GIGANTIC.
> 
> Let's see if that translates to Television viewership.


Yep, AEW absolutely destroyed them in terms of social media. I'd be amazed if the ratings don't show a similar story.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Social media numbers and google trends has AEW beating NXT in a fucking demolition, the disparity is GIGANTIC.
> 
> Let's see if that translates to Television viewership.


It will. Those two things, especially Google searches, are highly correlated with viewership.


----------



## Lethal Evans

When will we find out viewership?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

MrEvans said:


> When will we find out viewership?


Tomorrow, around 4:15 PM EST, that will probably be more fun than the actual two shows going head to head.


----------



## Lethal Evans

Lol


----------



## EMGESP

2.5 million for AEW debut.


----------



## EMGESP

Oh and AEW 100% beat NXT in ratings. The hype and build for AEW is on a totally different level over the established NXT brand.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm more interested if NXT went DOWN in viewership, doing a loaded show, bringing in Balor, and still dropping viewers would be embarrassing.


----------



## OmegaMark

The interesting question isn't if AEW will top NXT in the ratings -- of course they will, easily. No, the interesting thing is how AEW's ratings compare to what SmackDown and especially RAW draw. My guess is they top both this week. The question is, can they keep it up once the initial curiosity is gone?


----------



## Taroostyles

Going forward this is where it will get interesting. Vince and co. will not like being beat even if NXT is seen as their 3rd brand. 

One thing that they'll never overcome is NXT in that dark little studio while AEW is running full size arenas, it's not even close in terms of presentation and environment.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

OmegaMark said:


> The interesting question isn't if AEW will top NXT in the ratings -- of course they will, easily. No, the interesting thing is how AEW's ratings compare to what SmackDown and especially RAW draw. My guess is they top both this week. The question is, can they keep it up once the initial curiosity is gone?


ZERO chance they top Smackdown, and very little they top RAW. Smackdown is going to do a monster number, Rock, Lesnar TV match, a fucking Ladder match with Shane and FOX. It's gonna do 4+ million.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

The Inbred Goatman said:


> ZERO chance they top Smackdown, and very little they top RAW. Smackdown is going to do a monster number, Rock, Lesnar TV match, a fucking Ladder match with Shane and FOX. It's gonna do 4+ million.


It's Friday though. What show outside of NBA games do ok on a Friday? Friday is death night for ratings.


People forget that AEW has another wrestling show on at the same time. So even if they do close numbers to the RAW and SD ones, it would be impressive.


----------



## Lethal Evans

The Inbred Goatman said:


> ZERO chance they top Smackdown, and very little they top RAW. Smackdown is going to do a monster number, Rock, Lesnar TV match, a fucking Ladder match with Shane and FOX. It's gonna do 4+ million.


3-3.5 I reckon. As above, Friday isn't great for ratings.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Great fucking show. About as good as I could've imagined.


----------



## OmegaMark

The Inbred Goatman said:


> ZERO chance they top Smackdown, and very little they top RAW. Smackdown is going to do a monster number, Rock, Lesnar TV match, a fucking Ladder match with Shane and FOX. It's gonna do 4+ million.


I'm talking about what pre-FOX SmackDown's done since moving to USA. Obviously SmackDown now being on prime time network TV puts them in a whole different stratosphere.


----------



## EMGESP

Taroostyles said:


> Going forward this is where it will get interesting. Vince and co. will not like being beat even if NXT is seen as their 3rd brand.
> 
> One thing that they'll never overcome is NXT in that dark little studio while AEW is running full size arenas, it's not even close in terms of presentation and environment.


NXT has great talent, but the lack of production value hurts it for me and the small arenas just make it look like minor league.


----------



## EMGESP

People are low balling with their 1.2 - 1.5 viewership numbers. This is gonna hit pass 2 million without a problem.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

EMGESP said:


> People are low balling with their 1.2 - 1.5 viewership numbers. This is gonna hit pass 2 million without a problem.


1.5 would be a homerun, that's where my prediction is at.


----------



## AEWMoxley

EMGESP said:


> People are low balling with their 1.2 - 1.5 viewership numbers. This is gonna hit pass 2 million without a problem.


Based on the Google searches compared to this past RAW, I think it will be around 1.8 million, which is a great number.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

This show is doing bat shit crazy google trend numbers, specifically looking up the top stars. As Dynamite was airing, Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley and Cody Rhodes were searched more than any WWE stars over the course of the last week, and it's by a SIGNIFICANT margin. We are talking more searches than Rollins and Reigns here in the states. And that's comparing as Rollins and Reigns were on TV on RAW and Smackdown respectively, to when the AEW names were on Dynamite.

However, it seemed like the term "AEW" had about 70% of the interest that the term "WWE" had while RAW was airing. So that would put it right in line with AEWMoxley's prediction of 1.8 million.


----------



## Dave Santos

Guys, not only is Nxt on, but the NHL regular season started today as well.


----------



## Seafort

As I said yesterday, 1.71M viewers for AEW. Book it.


----------



## V-Trigger




----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> This show is doing bat shit crazy google trend numbers, specifically looking up the top stars. As Dynamite was airing, Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley and Cody Rhodes were searched more than any WWE stars over the course of the last week, and it's by a SIGNIFICANT margin. We are talking more searches than Rollins and Reigns here in the states. And that's comparing as Rollins and Reigns were on TV on RAW and Smackdown respectively, to when the AEW names were on Dynamite.
> 
> However, it seemed like the term "AEW" had about 70% of the interest that the term "WWE" had while RAW was airing. So that would put it right in line with AEWMoxley's prediction of 1.8 million.


To be fair, they trended higher than anyone other than Lesnar. Lesnar peaked higher than anyone in WWE or AEW.

Rollins is a geek. He shouldn't even be considered here. Of course Moxley and Jericho are way bigger stars than him.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

This may end up being an absolute massacre in favor of AEW. I don't think anyone was really expecting the disparity to be this huge.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

I've never cared for or followed television ratings before. What would be a good number for AEW? 1.5 million?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

ZSJ said:


> I've never cared for or followed television ratings before. What would be a good number for AEW? 1.5 million?


All Meltzer was thinking was "Above 850k", the notion online was all over the place, some where thinking south of 700k, some were thinking north of 1.2-1.3. Anything above 1 million should be seen as a success, but based on google trends and social media interest, it should demolish 1 million no problem.


----------



## Ace

I was thinking 800-1.2m but it's got a lot of buzz on social media and here.

So it wouldn't surprise me if it does ~1.5m.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Here's another interesting stat based on google trends, the 2nd run of AEW TV also bolstered search results by a great degree, obviously not as much as the first, but still by a significant degree. There were WAY more searches for Jon Moxley during his angle on the second run of Dynamite, than there was for Adam Cole, Matt Riddle etc. during there match on the first run of NXT.


----------



## The XL 2

I'm hoping for 2 million, but conservatively predicting about 1.8


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The XL 2 said:


> I'm hoping for 2 million, but conservatively predicting about 1.8


When we are conservatively predicting 1.8, I think that's a very good sign. I don't know if they'll hit that, I think 1.5 would be really great.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

How do they calculate east and west coast with the rerun?

Is it added together or something?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How do they calculate east and west coast with the rerun?
> 
> Is it added together or something?


Different airings, they'll have separate ratings. Really great of TNT to give them the double airing tho, the 10-12 time slot isn't bad at all, and can definitley attract more eye balls, especially if people are just looking for something to watch before bed.

Not sure if that's going to be the regular thing going forward, or if it's just for the debut.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Different airings, they'll have separate ratings. Really great of TNT to give them the double airing tho, the 10-12 time slot isn't bad at all, and can definitley attract more eye balls, especially if people are just looking for something to watch before bed.
> 
> Not sure if that's going to be the regular thing going forward, or if it's just for the debut.


It is very cool

But the 10 east coast rerun will be the 8 west coast first showing, right? With the time difference?

Do they count the 8 west coast ratings with the 8 east coast?

Sorry for getting technical


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

LifeInCattleClass said:


> It is very cool
> 
> But the 10 east coast rerun will be the 8 west coast first showing, right? With the time difference?
> 
> Do they count the 8 west coast ratings with the 8 east coast?
> 
> Sorry for getting technical


I believe the first showings will go with each other, and the second showings will go with each other.


----------



## NXT Only

I think theyll just fail to reach 1M.

NXT taking up a portion of the market though I’m sure most fans were flipping back n forth so I’m sure it’ll be close. 

However after tonight I think they set the tone for some to come back and watch next week.


----------



## EMGESP

NXT Only said:


> *I think theyll just fail to reach 1M.*
> 
> NXT taking up a portion of the market though I’m sure most fans were flipping back n forth so I’m sure it’ll be close.
> 
> However after tonight I think they set the tone for some to come back and watch next week.


LOL, change that to 2 million.


----------



## The Wood

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I'm more interested if NXT went DOWN in viewership, doing a loaded show, bringing in Balor, and still dropping viewers would be embarrassing.


AEW is having a huge launch with a product that most viewers are completely unfamiliar with, therefore is untainted. I think everyone expects NXT to take the dive on the first week up against them. The debate has always been whether or not AEW can retain the new viewers it gets in the first week. They got about 40% back on PPV. TV is free, so I doubt the drop is that steep, but people can't take the first week rating as the fixed baseline for AEW, because it's a completely new presentation for most people. 



Taroostyles said:


> Going forward this is where it will get interesting. Vince and co. will not like being beat even if NXT is seen as their 3rd brand.
> 
> One thing that they'll never overcome is NXT in that dark little studio while AEW is running full size arenas, it's not even close in terms of presentation and environment.


Keeping NXT in Full Sail is a tactical move. It's to create an intimate setting and give it an underground fight club type feel. It's all part of the aesthetic. No one is confusing a WWE backed production with "low budget." AEW gets more hurt if those arenas aren't full and they have to downsize and suddenly their presentation looks very different. NXT can stay the same size, run occasionally in larger venues, or go on the road later. It's no biggie and the fans that argue this are missing the long game. 



The Inbred Goatman said:


> ZERO chance they top Smackdown, and very little they top RAW. Smackdown is going to do a monster number, Rock, Lesnar TV match, a fucking Ladder match with Shane and FOX. It's gonna do 4+ million.


There's no way AEW beats SmackDown. They've got The Rock. My guess for that show has always been above 4 million. I don't think they all come back, and I think it ends up doing around 2.5, which is pretty disappointing aside from the cost of SmackDown and that it is year-round programming, but they are going to be the biggest show of the week -- likely of the year. 



The Inbred Goatman said:


> This show is doing bat shit crazy google trend numbers, specifically looking up the top stars. As Dynamite was airing, Chris Jericho, Jon Moxley and Cody Rhodes were searched more than any WWE stars over the course of the last week, and it's by a SIGNIFICANT margin. We are talking more searches than Rollins and Reigns here in the states. And that's comparing as Rollins and Reigns were on TV on RAW and Smackdown respectively, to when the AEW names were on Dynamite.
> 
> However, it seemed like the term "AEW" had about 70% of the interest that the term "WWE" had while RAW was airing. So that would put it right in line with AEWMoxley's prediction of 1.8 million.


You have to keep in mind that this is _new_. People are gathering brand new information about this that they aren't for things like WWE and Raw. 1.8 was my ultimate prediction, which is going to be personally disappointing, because I think they could have done way better, but is way above what TNT usually gets in the slot. But going crazy about the trends right now is looking a bit too far into things, methinks. It's just too fresh. Researching it doesn't mean that people are going to watch, for example. Everyone tagging WWE is probably watching. 



The Inbred Goatman said:


> This may end up being an absolute massacre in favor of AEW. I don't think anyone was really expecting the disparity to be this huge.


Yes they were. Plenty of people have been predicting an absolute slaughter for AEW the first week. You've probably just got them on ignore because they don't fellate the company the entire time. 



NXT Only said:


> I think theyll just fail to reach 1M.
> 
> NXT taking up a portion of the market though I’m sure most fans were flipping back n forth so I’m sure it’ll be close.
> 
> However after tonight I think they set the tone for some to come back and watch next week.


We're in a time where NXT fans can still watch AEW and vice versa. I don't think there will be much cutting into each other's fan-base. 

NXT being on offer on the WWE Network is probably going to cut into it more. I can see Triple H putting out those numbers to try and present a total tally for NXT.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The Wood said:


> Yes they were. Plenty of people have been predicting an absolute slaughter for AEW the first week. You've probably just got them on ignore because they don't fellate the company the entire time.


Lmao, I don't ignore anyone, I don't know how too. I was looking at social media all day, and MANY people had NXT beating AEW by a considerable margin, just look at reddits rating prediction thread, which is a way bigger sample size than the few people on here that are loud. 

Get a clue dude, and stop being pretentious as fuck.


----------



## DGenerationMC

Looks like the scalpers lost in DC, no?


----------



## V-Trigger




----------



## Ace

Dave Meltzer on the first info they have about "ratings" from NXT v AEW: "I got Playstation views numbers, and granted this a very small, sample group and perhaps thanks to the nature of this group it favors AEW, but AEW was watched by triple the amount of people that watched NXT."

Some bullet points regarding AEW v NXT first show from Wrestling Observer Radio:


3rd highest / most watched show from Television on Playstation View.
Regarding Google Trends: 140k for AEW and 20k for NXT, however Google Trends stats usually are better for PPVs than TV Shows, and if it was a PPV battle between both shows, Dave would be able to say without a shadow of a doubt that AEW "killed them" but when it comes to TV it's different.
According to Dave Meltzer, NXT had better wrestling but AEW had a better looking overall show. NXT felt like PWG on TV and AEW looked like WCW Nitro without shitty booking and promos;
He thinks that AEW didn't do a good job to promote their next show and what comes next, outside of Young Bucks v Private Party and even that wasn't really well promoted. NXT announced Lio Rush v Drew Gulak but it wasn't enough to hype their match next week. And WALTER v KUSHIDA didn't have anything on this show to promote it, if you are a casual fan you don't know who either of them are;
Overall Bryan Alvarez agrees that NXT had the better wrestling and AEW was a better show.
Both agree that NXT needs to get out of Full Sail and it was very obvious the gap between both shows. Soon enough they will figure it out and change it to NXT on the road but they aren't drawing very good for NXT on the road so far.
Dave Meltzer says that Cody Rhodes comes across as the greatest babyface, there is something both Cody and Brandi that they have the sincerity down and it's so good;
Dave Meltzer predicts/expects over 1.2M viewers for AEW.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> Dave Meltzer on the first info they have about "ratings" from NXT v AEW: "I got Playstation views numbers, and granted this a very small, sample group and perhaps thanks to the nature of this group it favors AEW, but AEW was watched by triple the amount of people that watched NXT."
> 
> Some bullet points regarding AEW v NXT first show from Wrestling Observer Radio:
> 
> 
> 3rd highest / most watched show from Television on Playstation View.
> Regarding Google Trends: 140k for AEW and 20k for NXT, however Google Trends stats usually are better for PPVs than TV Shows, and if it was a PPV battle between both shows, Dave would be able to say without a shadow of a doubt that AEW "killed them" but when it comes to TV it's different.
> According to Dave Meltzer, NXT had better wrestling but AEW had a better looking overall show. NXT felt like PWG on TV and AEW looked like WCW Nitro without shitty booking and promos;
> He thinks that AEW didn't do a good job to promote their next show and what comes next, outside of Young Bucks v Private Party and even that wasn't really well promoted. NXT announced Lio Rush v Drew Gulak but it wasn't enough to hype their match next week. And WALTER v KUSHIDA didn't have anything on this show to promote it, if you are a casual fan you don't know who either of them are;
> Overall Bryan Alvarez agrees that NXT had the better wrestling and AEW was a better show.
> Both agree that NXT needs to get out of Full Sail and it was very obvious the gap between both shows. Soon enough they will figure it out and change it to NXT on the road but they aren't drawing very good for NXT on the road so far.
> Dave Meltzer says that Cody Rhodes comes across as the greatest babyface, there is something both Cody and Brandi that they have the sincerity down and it's so good;
> Dave Meltzer predicts/expects over 1.2M viewers for AEW.


I think one thing we have to consider is the WWE majority audience is over 50, so that won't translate much to twitter & google etc. 

Based on twitter trends last night AEW were murdering them, and I do expect them to win fairly comfortably. I can't see it being a complete massacre though (although I hope it is, I want them humiliated)


----------



## validreasoning

NXT did 1.2 million ish for it's debut on usa with very little actual promotion from WWE.

AEW and TNT has spent a ton on promotion and obviously bigger names so it's not doing less than a million.

The preshow thing did 631k and using preshow TNA on Pop as a reference which did 30% of live debut show that puts AEW debut at 2.1 million viewers


----------



## SPCDRI

ZSJ said:


> I've never cared for or followed television ratings before. What would be a good number for AEW? 1.5 million?


TNT would be cumming buckets if they got 1.5 million. They air a bunch of old D list movies and syndicated shows on Wednesday. Nothing they run on a Wednesday routinely hits half a million. Even half of that would be like a quarter million more than what their best shows do on a Wednesday and TNT would be bustin' out the BUBBLY.


----------



## Jonhern

SayWhatAgain! said:


> I think one thing we have to consider is the WWE majority audience is over 50, so that won't translate much to twitter & google etc.
> 
> Based on twitter trends last night AEW were murdering them, and I do expect them to win fairly comfortably. I can't see it being a complete massacre though (although I hope it is, I want them humiliated)


But that will be good for aew in terms of ratings which is based on the 18-49 demo. If they skew younger they can get sdl like ratings with nxt size total viewers.


----------



## Jonhern

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I believe the first showings will go with each other, and the second showings will go with each other.


Are you sure, because the ratings count live plus same day dvr, ie if it's watched before 3am. The rerun is no different than some one watching it on dvr, even had the same commericals.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

To be honest, I don’t think anybody in their right mind expects NXT to beat AEW. Not even the WWE braintrust. All they wanted to do by scheduling NXT in the same time slot is get as many eyes off of AEW as possible. 
Unfortunately I think they’re shooting themselves in the foot here by automatically limiting the audience that might otherwise be watching NXT. In other words, they’re hurting themselves more than they’re hurting the competition. But that’s Vince, so I’m not the least bit surprised.


----------



## Jonhern

ZSJ said:


> I've never cared for or followed television ratings before. What would be a good number for AEW? 1.5 million?


In terms of ratings it's all about the demo share not total viewers. A .3 would have been good for them, but the countdown Tuesday already got a .2. I think they get .5-.6 which will be comparable to SDL ratings this past quarter. And because all available info points to them having a younger skewing audience they don't have to match sdl or raw numbers to match or even beat them in the ratings.


----------



## bradatar

Still thinking 1.2-1.4 million is where the number will be. Anymore should be considered a MASSIVE success.


----------



## Jonhern

OmegaMark said:


> The interesting question isn't if AEW will top NXT in the ratings -- of course they will, easily. No, the interesting thing is how AEW's ratings compare to what SmackDown and especially RAW draw. My guess is they top both this week. The question is, can they keep it up once the initial curiosity is gone?


I think they can match or top sdl recent rantings. But they are not beating sdl on fox Friday, fox has been pushing the debut hard with a lot more reach than anything tnt did, ie lots of ads on NFL programing.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*

Only a few hours away from having the numbers. Expecting something modest, but who knows with this company. They seem to consistently out do what's expected


----------



## Chan Hung

Nothing of NXT was trending?


----------



## Jonhern

PushCrymeTyme said:


> those of you who are not Nielsen families remember to watch or at least have aew dynamite running on your mobile device/computer using the tnt app or website so you can contribute to the ratings


Used to be a Nielson family. They don't actually count out of home viewing currently. Well actually that changed this month for local ratings, national won't count them until next fall. So having your phone one steaming so the meter picks it up won't mean anything.

Also if you have sling or dish you count some towards the ratings so even if you are out just leave the box tuned into the channel lol.


----------



## Seafort

Why would NXT go on the road? Even if they were to book and sell out basketball arenas (like AEW) their production motive is to turn off all the lights to give it a 1983 AWA look. They would also have to change the way they present NXT as a whole and make it look more major league.

My wife watched a few minutes of it last night and she is the definition of a casual fan. When they showed WALTER, she laughed and said something to the effect of “they are really not trying when it comes to wrestler names anymore, are they?”


----------



## EMGESP

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



RapShepard said:


> Only a few hours away from having the numbers. Expecting something modest, but who knows with this company. They seem to consistently out do what's expected


By modest do you mean 1.5 million?


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



EMGESP said:


> By modest do you mean 1.5 million?


My modest is .8-1.2 I know it was must watch for fans like us. But I'm still totally clueless on how folk in general are feeling about them.


----------



## EMGESP

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



RapShepard said:


> My modest is .8-1.2 I know it was must watch for fans like us. But I'm still totally clueless on how folk in general are feeling about them.


Their preview show the day before did 630K and wasn't even heavily advertised. This will definitelty surpass 1.2 million.


----------



## Not Lying

Reggie Dunlop said:


> To be honest, I don’t think anybody in their right mind expects NXT to beat AEW. Not even the WWE braintrust. All they wanted to do by scheduling NXT in the same time slot is get as many eyes off of AEW as possible.
> Unfortunately I think they’re shooting themselves in the foot here by automatically limiting the audience that might otherwise be watching NXT. In other words, they’re hurting themselves more than they’re hurting the competition. But that’s Vince, so I’m not the least bit surprised.


I agree with this so much. I want to support NXT, it has many of my favorites, and I still prefer the way it is run over Raw, and I know the roster more than AEW. But if I were in the US I’d def watch AEW and then watch NXT later. I will be choosing the competition that WWE desperately needs to stop being lazy and book consistent good shows without relying on old farts.
Like, give me NXT on a tuesday or thursday, keep it running as is and see it grow.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I think modest is 1.2. Realistic is 1.5. Hopeful is 2+.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



EMGESP said:


> Their preview show the day before did 630K and wasn't even heavily advertised. This will definitelty surpass 1.2 million.


I definitely get why folk are going high. But yeah I just don't know. 1.5 doesn't sound crazy to me though.


----------



## EMGESP

Based on that Keller podcast with Kahn, TNT set the expectations lower than Kahn's own expectations, so I predict TNT will be extremely happy by the numbers.


----------



## RapShepard

That's good to know, gives confidence they won't try to pull a "oh we're disappointed you're only doing a million viewers"


----------



## Ham and Egger

Why do I get the feel that the total number between both NXT and AEW will be the same total of the current WWE audience. I'm really hoping that there are new fans tuning in and AEW does a big number for their first night of TV.


----------



## PavelGaborik

A mil would be great.


----------



## Chan Hung

What time are ratings usually out?


----------



## Boldgerg

PavelGaborik said:


> A mil would be great.


It's going to be way, way over.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

Chan Hung said:


> What time are ratings usually out?


4 pm eastern


here are early reports full ratings in 3 hours


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179799276915961857
demo ratings


> Wrestling's "Wednesday Night Wars" officially kicked off last night. And AEW takes the first week by topping WWE's NXT. The Big Lead's Ryan Glasspiegel reports that the launch of AEW's Dynamite on TNT recorded a 0.7 overnight rating. NXT, which airs on the USA Network, trailed with a 0.5 rating.
> 
> The total viewership numbers for both shows will be out later today. Last week, NXT averaged just over a million viewers.


----------



## patpat

PushCrymeTyme said:


> Chan Hung said:
> 
> 
> 
> What time are ratings usually out?
> 
> 
> 
> in 3 hours... 4 pm eastern
> 
> here are early reports
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179799276915961857
> demo ratings
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling's "Wednesday Night Wars" officially kicked off last night. And AEW takes the first week by topping WWE's NXT. The Big Lead's Ryan Glasspiegel reports that the launch of AEW's Dynamite on TNT recorded a 0.7 overnight rating. NXT, which airs on the USA Network, trailed with a 0.5 rating.
> 
> The total viewership numbers for both shows will be out later today. Last week, NXT averaged just over a million viewers.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

 ps : those arent the actual ratings just early releases but this kinda shows aew beat them by a considerable margin.


----------



## Jonhern

PushCrymeTyme said:


> in 3 hours... 4 pm eastern
> 
> here are early reports
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179799276915961857
> demo ratings


that's great, over my prediction of .6 demo, they beat SDL ratings from last week, and from the last couple of months for reference.


----------



## patpat

Jonhern said:


> PushCrymeTyme said:
> 
> 
> 
> in 3 hours... 4 pm eastern
> 
> here are early reports
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179799276915961857
> demo ratings
> 
> 
> 
> that's great, over my prediction of .6 demo, they beat SDL ratings from last week, and from the last couple of months for reference.
Click to expand...

 how does that translate in viewership?


----------



## PavelGaborik

Boldgerg said:


> It's going to be way, way over.


You think so? I'd be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

patpat said:


> how does that translate in viewership?


estimate 


> A .7 should translate to 1.2 to 1.5 million viewers


----------



## bradatar

PavelGaborik said:


> You think so? I'd be pleasantly surprised.




I don’t know about way but 1.4 sounds about right 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KrysRaw1

WWE must be pissed. I'm glad they got their asses kicked against AEW. Hahaha NXT with them pathetic #s. Going lower every week


----------



## Jonhern

patpat said:


> how does that translate in viewership?


no way of knowing really, because that is the demo rating, so just depends on how the audience demographics breakdown. For instance that is a higher rating than SDL last week which got 2 million viewers. But last Wednesday, American horror story got a .68 with 1.5 million because they have a younger audience than WWE. So that will be a big factor in what the final total viewers are.


----------



## patpat

https://www.f4wonline.com/aew-news/strong-early-market-ratings-numbers-aew-dynamite-debut-293916

Ohh boy.....


----------



## Jonhern

KrysRaw1 said:


> WWE must be pissed. I'm glad they got their asses kicked against AEW. Hahaha NXT with them pathetic #s. Going lower every week


Its actually higher than the debut show which got a .43. People watching both helped them.


----------



## roadkill_

1.7 million viewers? Didn't TNT say they'd be happy with anything over 400k?


----------



## KrysRaw1

Jonhern said:


> KrysRaw1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> WWE must be pissed. I'm glad they got their asses kicked against AEW. Hahaha NXT with them pathetic #s. Going lower every week
> 
> 
> 
> Its actually hire than the debut show which got a .43. People watching both helped them.
Click to expand...

Still lets call it on facts. WWE machine loses to a First time head to head wrestling competitor in more than 10 years. History indeed! NXT needs to stay on network.


----------



## Jonhern

patpat said:


> https://www.f4wonline.com/aew-news/strong-early-market-ratings-numbers-aew-dynamite-debut-293916
> 
> Ohh boy.....


Wow, those are great numbers. the reply doing well in Detroit and Charlotte too. I wonder if they will be combined in the final rating or not?


----------



## Jonhern

KrysRaw1 said:


> Still lets call it on facts. WWE machine loses to a First time head to head wrestling competitor in more than 10 years. History indeed! NXT needs to stay on network.


If these numbers hold up, NXT doesn't matter, they beat Smackdown. Thats huge.


----------



## V-Trigger

Curious to see how they did in Atlanta. Flair's hometown did great. Not surprised. :banderas


----------



## Joe Gill

are they going to do a replay of the show every week? if it was a one time thing it could lead to a bump in ratings next week if fans dont have the option of waiting for the replay to watch


----------



## patpat

Jonhern said:


> KrysRaw1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Still lets call it on facts. WWE machine loses to a First time head to head wrestling competitor in more than 10 years. History indeed! NXT needs to stay on network.
> 
> 
> 
> If these numbers hold up, NXT doesn't matter, they beat Smackdown. Thats huge.
Click to expand...

 we dont know yet, could be higher could be lower but it's already fucking huge.


----------



## Mango13

KrysRaw1 said:


> Still lets call it on facts. WWE machine loses to a First time head to head wrestling competitor in more than 10 years. History indeed! NXT needs to stay on network.


NXT was always going to lose the first week and perhaps the coming weeks. The real #'s will be in a month or two when all the hype has died down.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I hope they keep the instant replay right after - seems like a good late night option for them


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> are they going to do a replay of the show every week? if it was a one time thing it could lead to a bump in ratings next week if fans dont have the option of waiting for the replay to watch


Tony Khan said that he don't think there will be a replay right after the show for the other shows but there will still be replay later in the weeks


----------



## The XL 2

If AEW did 1.7, they'd be pretty huge, considering they go head to head with NXT. Even Raw only gets in the low 2 millions on most weeks.


----------



## validreasoning

KrysRaw1 said:


> Still lets call it on facts. WWE machine loses to a First time head to head wrestling competitor in more than 10 years. History indeed! NXT needs to stay on network.


They make zero dollars staying on network and $50m a year in tv rights revenue airing on usa

NXT was moving to tv once wwe signed big fox and NBC deals last year. Was originally supposed to be fs1, that's months before All in even happened never mind aew https://www.sescoops.com/huge-nxt-news-reportedly-coming-soon/


----------



## Swindle

Mango13 said:


> NXT was always going to lose the first week and perhaps the coming weeks. The real #'s will be in a month or two when all the hype has died down.


Unless NXT gets out Full Sail, I don't see how it can beat AEW. Reminds me of WCW Saturday Night taping at Disney–MGM Studios. It does not look big league.


----------



## V-Trigger

validreasoning said:


> They make zero dollars staying on network and $50m a year in tv rights revenue airing on usa
> 
> NXT was moving to tv once wwe signed big fox and NBC deals last year. Was originally supposed to be fs1, that's months before All in even happened never mind aew https://www.sescoops.com/huge-nxt-news-reportedly-coming-soon/


Then why didn't they booked bigger buildings and went on the road?. I doubt that this was planned a long time ago, Meltzer talked about this issue on todays WOR.


----------



## Chan Hung

1.7-1.9 rating I read. Wow. Amazing. Good job AEW!!!!!!! :clap


----------



## Mango13

Swindle said:


> Unless NXT gets out Full Sail, I don't see how it can beat AEW. Reminds me of WCW Saturday Night taping at Disney–MGM Studios. It does not look big league.


Fair Point. I was just saying not to get to excited yet I mean yeah the numbers are good but the real numbers will be when the hype has died down and the people who had just been curious about the new product stop tuning in. 

Honestly though I hope AEW does good and the #'s stay steady or continue to climb. having 2 big successful wrestling promotions on TV only benefits the wrestlers and us fans.


----------



## ElTerrible

validreasoning said:


> They make zero dollars staying on network and $50m a year in tv rights revenue airing on usa
> 
> NXT was moving to tv once wwe signed big fox and NBC deals last year. Was originally supposed to be fs1, that's months before All in even happened never mind aew https://www.sescoops.com/huge-nxt-news-reportedly-coming-soon/


They had to. Imagine AEW beats SD in TV ratings this week. Who in the world would pay anything for NXT, after WWE already robbed two networks blind. Hey maybe that´s the role of Alicia Fox in WWE. She heads the TV pitch department. *pun intended*


----------



## rbl85

If i was WWE i would have put NXT on Tuesday.


----------



## validreasoning

V-Trigger said:


> Then why didn't they booked bigger buildings and went on the road?. I doubt that this was planned a long time ago, Meltzer talked about this issue on todays WOR.


NXT weekly tv has been taped in full sail since summer of 2012.

Going on the road would be far far more costly and dramatically increase developmental costs which they likely don't want


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> If i was WWE i would have put NXT on Tuesday.


 This. Put it on Tues or Thursday. Tuesday theyll compete against Impact. I mean, even if they leave full sail they will look minor league since they cant get more than probably 2000 in attendance


----------



## RapShepard

That 1.7 is amazng for a new promtion. Hopefully the numbers continue to grow.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rbl85 said:


> If i was WWE i would have put NXT on Tuesday.


Again, the only reason for putting NXT directly against AEW is to take eyes off AEW, and WWE doing all they can to save some face for their flagship programs. How would it look if this upstart pissant t-shirt company shows up and pulls bigger numbers on their premiere episode than the two established shows of the wrestling juggernaut? WWE is simply doing everything they can to keep that from happening. To that end, NXT was most likely successful; imagine AEW’s numbers if they ran unopposed. Given that little obstacle, if Dynamite comes anywhere close to Raw’s or Smackdown’s usual numbers, that’s got to be viewed as a huge win for AEW.


----------



## Ace

Chan Hung said:


> This. Put it on Tues or Thursday. Tuesday theyll compete against Impact. I mean, even if they leave full sail they will look minor league since they cant get more than probably 2000 in attendance


They don't actually care about NXT.. they want to hurt AEW and not let them become a threat.


----------



## Zappers

AEW 1.5 million to 1.7 million viewers

Which means NXT increased from last week too. NXT probably did 1.2 million 1.5 million.

Impressive as hell for both.


----------



## Jonhern

Mango13 said:


> Fair Point. I was just saying not to get to excited yet I mean yeah the numbers are good but the real numbers will be when the hype has died down and the people who had just been curious about the new product stop tuning in.
> 
> Honestly though I hope AEW does good and the #'s stay steady or continue to climb. having 2 big successful wrestling promotions on TV only benefits the wrestlers and us fans.


you are assuming it goes down, they are getting good reviews and press, could go up as word of mouth spreads that there is a real alternative now to WWE. There are a lot of lapsed fans that stopped watching just this last 5 years. People like my little brother and his friends watched and liked it, they haven't watched WWE tv in ages and used to be hardcore fans. People like him are going to tell more people to check it out. If they put out a consistent product it can hold and even grow its audience.


----------



## Zappers

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Again, the only reason for putting NXT directly against AEW is to take eyes off AEW, and WWE doing all they can to save some face for their flagship programs. How would it look if this upstart pissant t-shirt company shows up and pulls bigger numbers on their premiere episode than the two established shows of the wrestling juggernaut? WWE is simply doing everything they can to keep that from happening. To that end, NXT was most likely successful; imagine AEW’s numbers if they ran unopposed. Given that little obstacle, if Dynamite comes anywhere close to Raw’s or Smackdown’s usual numbers, that’s got to be viewed as a huge win for AEW.


Sorta got that reversed. NXT USA TV on Wed. was in the works for over a year. AEW picked Wednesdays to go against NXT.


----------



## Jonhern

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Again, the only reason for putting NXT directly against AEW is to take eyes off AEW, and WWE doing all they can to save some face for their flagship programs. How would it look if this upstart pissant t-shirt company shows up and pulls bigger numbers on their premiere episode than the two established shows of the wrestling juggernaut? WWE is simply doing everything they can to keep that from happening. To that end, NXT was most likely successful; imagine AEW’s numbers if they ran unopposed. Given that little obstacle, if Dynamite comes anywhere close to Raw’s or Smackdown’s usual numbers, that’s got to be viewed as a huge win for AEW.


If the overnight rating holds around .7 then they beat the SDL from last week and what it has been consistently doing this year. If it goes up they might not beat RAW premiere from this week, but they could be neck and neck with what raw has been doing, which is a .8. So they might do it even with NXT there.


----------



## TwistedLogic

WWE's comments on AEW's debut (via PWInsider):



> WWE sent us the following:
> 
> “Congratulations to AEW on a successful premiere. The real winners of last night's head-to-head telecasts of NXT on USA Network and AEW on TNT are the fans, who can expect Wednesday nights to be a competitive and wild ride as this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint.”


lmao, the "marathon not a sprint" sounds like even the WWE acknowledges AEW had the better show last night.


----------



## Zappers

TwistedLogic said:


> WWE's comments on AEW's debut (via PWInsider):
> 
> 
> 
> lmao, the "marathon not a sprint" sounds like even the WWE acknowledges AEW had the better show last night.


If they are acknowledging anything they are saying about the viewer numbers. Those are facts, the numbers.

Who had the better show is subjective.


And btw, the bigger question. Why would WWE send pwinsider anything? I call bull on that.


----------



## V-Trigger

Zappers said:


> Sorta got that reversed. NXT USA TV on Wed. was in the works for over a year. AEW picked Wednesdays to go against NXT.


It wasn't. Don't believe what HHH or WWE say. Otherwise they would have booked bigger arenas to not look minor league compared to AEW. All of this took them by surprise.


----------



## Joe Gill

how exactly do the ratings work? If someone spends 50% watching aew and 50% watching nxt does it count as a full viewer for both shows? or half a viewer for each? or what if someone watched aew for 80% and 20% for nxt? 

for normal shows people usually dont flip back and forth but they might for wrestling and other sports.


----------



## TwistedLogic

V-Trigger said:


> It wasn't. Don't believe what HHH or WWE say. Otherwise they would have booked bigger arenas to not look minor league compared to AEW. All of this took them by surprise.


Yeah lmao, anyone who believes the WWE weren't trying their hardest to burn AEW just needs to look at the fact that they made their title match the damn opening match on the card. They needed big stories and a big debut like Balor early in the show to compete with the hype of the AEW. It even worked to a certain extent. AEW had like 3 of the top 5 world trends on Twitter until the Balor debut put one or two NXT hashtags in there.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Joe Gill said:


> how exactly do the ratings work? If someone spends 50% watching aew and 50% watching nxt does it count as a full viewer for both shows? or half a viewer for each? or what if someone watched aew for 80% and 20% for nxt?
> 
> for normal shows people usually dont flip back and forth but they might for wrestling and other sports.


I wonder this as well. Like..how long do I have to sit and watch a program to be a "viewer"? 30 seconds? 5 minutes?


----------



## patpat

TwistedLogic said:


> WWE's comments on AEW's debut (via PWInsider):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WWE sent us the following:
> 
> “Congratulations to AEW on a successful premiere. The real winners of last night's head-to-head telecasts of NXT on USA Network and AEW on TNT are the fans, who can expect Wednesday nights to be a competitive and wild ride as this is a marathon, not a one-night sprint.”
> 
> 
> 
> lmao, the "marathon not a sprint" sounds like even the WWE acknowledges AEW had the better show last night.
Click to expand...

 that marathon not sprint sounds like such damage control :lol


----------



## Zappers

V-Trigger said:


> It wasn't. Don't believe what HHH or WWE say. Otherwise they would have booked bigger arenas to not look minor league compared to AEW. All of this took them by surprise.


Oh. I guess Tony Kahn was lying then.


But on regards to what look like minor or not is subjective. NXT is built around that format. But they also proved they can pack in 20,000 + for a PPV when need be. They might have some bigger non PPV shows occasionally, but that's not what their format is about.

AEW was in a big arena last night, the average of what WWE has been doing for last 30 years 52 week a year. AEW won't always have those size crowds, last night was the debut show. Don't know how long they can keep giving away tickets and selling tickets at $5 to fill 15,000 seats and still make a profit. But time will tell.


----------



## rbl85

Personally i hope the best for AEW and NXT.

It's better for everybody if both of them do great ratings.


----------



## ElTerrible

RainmakerV2 said:


> I wonder this as well. Like..how long do I have to sit and watch a program to be a "viewer"? 30 seconds? 5 minutes?


Yeah I always wondered about that, when WWE/WCW went head to head. Were those numbers heavily inflated by counting viewers twice. Obviously you´d skip channels during commercials.


----------



## V-Trigger

Zappers said:


> Oh. I guess Tony Kahn was lying then.
> 
> 
> But on regards to what look like minor or not is subjective. NXT is built around that format. But they also proved they can pack in 20,000 + for a PPV when need be.
> 
> AEW was in a big arena last night, the average of what WWE has been doing for last 30 years 52 week a year. AEW won't always have those size crowds, last night was the debut show. Don't know how long they can keep giving away tickets and selling tickets at $5 to fill 15,000 seats and still make a profit. But time will tell.


NXT doesn't do that well when they go on the road. TakeOvers are a exception since they are close to big WWE PPVS.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

0.7 AEW
0.5 NXT

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...-nxt-overnight-nielsen-ratings-are-in-660315/


----------



## Zappers

V-Trigger said:


> NXT doesn't do that well when they go on the road. TakeOvers are a exception since they are close to big WWE PPVS.


Yes. That's what I'm saying. The Takeover shows. They seem to do well, probably like you said with the connection to WWE PPV's.


----------



## Jonhern

Joe Gill said:


> how exactly do the ratings work? If someone spends 50% watching aew and 50% watching nxt does it count as a full viewer for both shows? or half a viewer for each? or what if someone watched aew for 80% and 20% for nxt?
> 
> for normal shows people usually dont flip back and forth but they might for wrestling and other sports.


People flip around all the time for any show, and in this case, they would count for the total number of minutes they watched, because the ratings are an average viewership for the runtime of the show. So you read it as there are so many viewers watching this program at any given minute. So if someone watched one show more than the other they would be weighted more in that one over the other. total impressions like how websites track page views would be much higher since someone could watch a segment then nothing else. 

They could also be fully counted in both if they watched one live and one recorded, so there could be a good amount of crossover between the two.


----------



## rbl85

Undertaker23RKO said:


> 0.7 AEW
> 0.5 NXT
> 
> https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2...-nxt-overnight-nielsen-ratings-are-in-660315/


Already posted


----------



## Ace

Yeah, NXT ain't selling any arenas weekly.

They can't sell tickets for their Raw and SD shows each week, what hope is NXT on the road?


----------



## Jonhern

Zappers said:


> Oh. I guess Tony Kahn was lying then.
> 
> 
> But on regards to what look like minor or not is subjective. NXT is built around that format. But they also proved they can pack in 20,000 + for a PPV when need be. They might have some bigger non PPV shows occasionally, but that's not what their format is about.
> 
> AEW was in a big arena last night, the average of what WWE has been doing for last 30 years 52 week a year. AEW won't always have those size crowds, last night was the debut show. Don't know how long they can keep giving away tickets and selling tickets at $5 to fill 15,000 seats and still make a profit. But time will tell.


NXT piggybacks off of the main roster for those PPVs though, iirc the standalone takeover did not sell out. Even the one at Summerslam did not sell out. And AEW did not sell any tickets that cheap or give them away, that was the scalpers, they made full price on them since it sold out. And while WWE does run that size arena, they don't fill them up only the big 4 do, so it will be naive to think AEW will be able to at the start after the first few shows. But they are already averaging about what WWE does for the shows that have not sold out so they are on good footing moving forward. WWE averages around 5k but that's for all shows including house shows, so RAW is higher than that and SDL likely a closer to the average. AEW is already doing that for a lot of the upcoming shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Zappers said:


> Sorta got that reversed. NXT USA TV on Wed. was in the works for over a year. AEW picked Wednesdays to go against NXT.


Mate, if you truly believe that was the only reason they chose now to go to 2 hours live vs the 1 hr pre-taped on demand streaming they used to have...... then more power to you

The press event they had yesterday was also pre-planned?

I can’t wait for them to put 205 live somewhere on a channel - in no relation to Impact starting to air

But..... whatever - it obvs matters not

Ps> if they planned this SO long, and got fucking MURDERED in the ratings - it is way more embarrassing. Like WAY more


----------



## Zappers

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Mate, if you truly believe that was the only reason they chose now to go to 2 hours live vs the 1 hr pre-taped on demand streaming they used to have...... then more power to you


NXT deal with USA Channel was in the works close to the time FOX made that deal for SD. These are the facts.


----------



## Zappers

Jonhern said:


> And AEW did not sell any tickets that cheap or give them away, that was the scalpers, they made full price on them since it sold out.


I can buy tickets right now to any upcoming AEW events from ticketmaster for under $10. Not scalpers.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

^^^


----------



## KrysRaw1

Zappers said:


> Jonhern said:
> 
> 
> 
> And AEW did not sell any tickets that cheap or give them away, that was the scalpers, they made full price on them since it sold out.
> 
> 
> 
> I can buy tickets right now to any upcoming AEW events from ticketmaster for under $10. Not scalpers.
Click to expand...

Just admit NXT got their asses handed to them. Its ok. And their 50 fans in attendance had good seats at least lol


----------



## V-Trigger

Zappers said:


> NXT deal with USA Channel was in the works close to the time FOX made that deal for SD. These are the facts.


What facts?. WWE didn't knew about TNT and then countered with adding one hour to their program when they knew about it. If TNT gave Tuesdays to AEW you bet your ass that Vince would have moved NXT to Tuesdays.


----------



## rbl85

Zappers said:


> I can buy tickets right now to any upcoming AEW events from ticketmaster for under $10. Not scalpers.


Lol the cheapest ones left for next Week show cost 150 dollars


----------



## Zappers

rbl85 said:


> Lol the cheapest ones left for next Week show cost 150 dollars


Correct. The $10 and under seats are already sold out. Just like last night Wed. Now to get in on those cheaper seats you would have buy for the show in two weeks. They are all available at this moment. Hopefully you can score some if you're going.

Or if your going to a NXT event. Those tickets are always real cheap. Like $20 and under. Been like that forever.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Zappers said:


> NXT deal with USA Channel was in the works close to the time FOX made that deal for SD. These are the facts.


Sure, sure - to my point of it being SUPER more embarrassing if that is the case?

Imagine if you had a year to plan, you’re a multi billion dollar business - and a new upstart drags you in the ratings

Isn’t that really, horribly bad then?


----------



## rbl85

Zappers said:


> Correct. The $10 and under seats are already sold out. Just like last night Wed. Now to get in on those cheaper seats you would have buy for the show in two weeks. They are all available at this moment. Hopefully you can score some if you're going.
> 
> Or if your going to a NXT event. Those tickets are always real cheap. Like $20 and under. Been like that forever.


It's Always better to wait for the last moment>


----------



## Zappers

Reggie Dunlop said:


> ^^^


Thread:

*AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys & Ticket Sales Thread*: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!


This is what I'm discussing. Ratings and tickets.


----------



## Zappers

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Sure, sure - to my point of it being SUPER more embarrassing if that is the case?
> 
> Imagine if you had a year to plan, you’re a multi billion dollar business - and a new upstart drags you in the ratings
> 
> Isn’t that really, horribly bad then?


Not sure. Both shows did well. And one improved on their prior two weeks. You would have to ask the people in charge if it was a success or not. I don't have the numbers on what the shows exactly cost to produce, wrestler salaries, and how it all plays out in the end for both companies. Obviously money is the bottom line to both of them.


----------



## TwistedLogic

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179846095498702849


----------



## ClintDagger

To me the most note worthy thing is that WWE Jedi mind tricked people into making this a war between AEW & NXT and not between AEW and the WWE main roster. It’s being framed as who is the better AAA product. AEW should have gone to Tuesday IMO to compete against SD’s old slot.


----------



## Dark Emperor

TwistedLogic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179846095498702849


So everyone over estimated the numbers without actual figures then. 1.5m was my prediction so below that is nothing special but still encouraging.

Looks like NXT retained their audience from last week which i'm actually shocked by.

If AEW drops 20%+ as expected next week then it'll become a close fight going forward.

For now, Week one is for AEW!


----------



## patpat

TwistedLogic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179846095498702849


 yeah wouldnt take a word from "those in tv" seeing how they said aew was gonna do 400k lmao


----------



## The XL 2

AEW just did a normal TV and NXT basically put on a Takeover and they still got bodied lmao. And lol WWE talking about a marathon and not a sprint when they basically hotshoted a bunch of title matches including opening with their world title.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Zappers said:


> Not sure. Both shows did well. And one improved on their prior two weeks. You would have to ask the people in charge if it was a success or not. I don't have the numbers on what the shows exactly cost to produce, wrestler salaries, and how it all plays out in the end for both companies. Obviously money is the bottom line to both of them.


They’re not here - so I’m asking your educated guess & opinion based on the circumstances and information available to all of us


----------



## RapShepard

I think the NXT thing is a combination, odds are WWE and USA had been discussing an NXT deal. Though it's insane to think AEW didn't speed up the process.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

sodiqlawal said:


> So everyone over estimated the numbers without actual figures then. 1.5m was my prediction so below that is nothing special but still encouraging.
> 
> Looks like NXT retained their audience from last week which i'm actually shocked by.
> 
> If AEW drops 20%+ as expected next week then it'll become a close fight going forward.
> 
> For now, Week one is for AEW!


Drop 20% as expected by who?

All the naysayers are thinking this is their best night and it will go down from here

It can also go up y’know


----------



## TwistedLogic

*AEW "buries" NXT in first ratings war: 1.4M viewers vs 891K*

*TNT’s ‘All Elite Wrestling: Dynamite’ Debut Buries USA Network’s ‘NXT’ in Ratings*

https://www.thewrap.com/all-elite-wrestling-dynamite-ratings-aew-nxt-wwe/



> The winner, and NEW champion: “All Elite Wrestling: Dynamite” on TNT!
> 
> Professional wrestling’s “Wednesday Night Wars” officially started on cable television last night, when the new weekly AEW wrestling show debuted to 1.4 million viewers, besting USA Network’s “NXT,” which put up 891,000 viewers (down 11% from last week’s show). Among the advertiser-coveted adults 18-49 demographic, “Dynamite” scored 878,000 viewers to “NXT’s” 414,000 (up 1% from its week-ago broadcast).


----------



## TwistedLogic

*Re: AEW "buries" NXT in first ratings war: 1.4M viewers vs 891K*

NXT was _DOWN_ in ratings from last week! So for all of the people who were saying "NXT will be happy as long as they're up on their own ratings" that didn't go so well it seems.

Absolute slaughter.


----------



## Zappers

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They’re not here - so I’m asking your educated guess & opinion based on the circumstances and information available to all of us


I said. Both shows did well. And no imho, NXT didn't do horribly bad as you stated.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW "buries" NXT in first ratings war: 1.4M viewers vs 891K*

Ah! i called 1.4 multiple times

Should have made a bet

Ps> anybody can use this meme I created in this thread against the normal posts we will see


----------



## TwistedLogic

Numbers are in.

1.4M for AEW
891K for NXT (down 11% from last week)

Absolute slaughter.


----------



## Vic

> Professional wrestling’s “Wednesday Night Wars” officially started on cable television last night, when the new weekly AEW wrestling show debuted to 1.4 million viewers, besting USA Network’s “NXT,” which put up 891,000 viewers (down 11% from last week’s show). Among the advertiser-coveted adults 18-49 demographic, “Dynamite” scored 878,000 viewers to “NXT’s” 414,000 (up 1% from its week-ago broadcast).


NXT didn’t even do 900k like many originally predicted before the 1M rumor :lmao holy shit.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I still can’t believe there are still WWE fans. After all the shit they’ve done to the fans and people are still loyal! Kind of crazy! They don’t deserve customers


----------



## TwistedLogic

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179849956292796417Holy shit! :mark


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Wow NXT has gone down every week. They’re done! Lol
AEW will gain viewers now after that ending last night


----------



## Taroostyles

Anyone downplaying this is crazy. Saying they were expected to crush them is asinine. This is a non WWE company beating the WWE in its 1st week. 

This is a HUGE deal.


----------



## TwistedLogic

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179850623929536513If there was any doubt in TNT's minds, it's gone. They're gonna promote the fuck out of this show.

Push AEW to the god damn moon.


----------



## AEWMoxley

1-1.5 million was my initial prediction way back in June. Looks like I got it right.

Recently, I thought they may be able to do better than that, but this is a good number. I still think that if they had a big match and/or big angle heading into last night, they could have done close to 2 million viewers.

Anyways, they absolutely slaughtered NXT, but that's not surprising. I don't think anyone with a brain actually thought NXT could compete with AEW head-to-head.


----------



## xxRambo_21xx

RubberbandGoat said:


> I still can’t believe there are still WWE fans. After all the shit they’ve done to the fans and people are still loyal! Kind of crazy! They don’t deserve customers


THIS! all those years of vince crapping on the fans with a terrible product. speak now by watching AEW.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

This is huge. I wonder how much lower NXT can go. They got the same demo as SD and almost the same one as Raw lol


----------



## Death Rider

What a start. The haters will find a way to spin this but a great start for the brand. Long may it continue


----------



## Vic

Guys, combine the live show with the repeat and they did well over 2M. We need those repeat numbers.


----------



## ClintDagger

TwistedLogic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179850623929536513If there was any doubt in TNT's minds, it's gone. They're gonna promote the fuck out of this show.
> 
> Push AEW to the god damn moon.


Fox has to be thinking WTF? They potentially could have got similar numbers at a fraction of the price. This shows how over valued WWE’s content was.


----------



## Raye

Lol if anyone actually tries to downplay this saying AEW should've beat them out. NXT put out a *TakeOver-like card*, that was the best possible show they could've put on, and they got slaughtered.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I know SD this week will do a big number but AEW’s audience will grow. Wonder how the replay did last night!


----------



## Ace

NXT lubed and fucked.

That was a Takeover level show lmao, just watch Vince put Brock and Cena on NXT.

AEW would be doing high 1m had WWE not put NXT up against them.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RubberbandGoat said:


> This is huge. I wonder how much lower NXT can go. They got the same demo as SD and almost the same one as Raw lol


NXT has exactly 0 stars. They are going to get raped mercilessly in the ratings from here on out. Wouldn't be surprised if a sizeable portion of NXT viewers migrate to AEW over the coming weeks.


----------



## rexmundi

TwistedLogic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179850623929536513If there was any doubt in TNT's minds, it's gone. They're gonna promote the fuck out of this show.
> 
> Push AEW to the god damn moon.


TNT will be very pleased with that number. I wonder if wwe starts putting on nxt a few minutes before the hour to get the jump on AEW. They overran nine minutes last night to try and get some of the AEW leftover audience. I'm sure vince will pull out every trick he can to avoid the sigma of losing to a new company.


----------



## KingCosmos

It's NXT.....NXT which most people don't even know about. Tell me when they surpass raw.


----------



## Ace

900,000 from the 18-49 demo is a seriously impressive number. Advertisers and TNT must be thrilled.


----------



## HankHill_85

There's no spin to this whatsoever. AEW fucking slayed NXT in live viewing, including the key demographics.

Congrats to everyone at AEW.

That said, consistency is going to be key and the real story is going to be where things will match up in Weeks 4, 6, 8, and so on.


----------



## V-Trigger

KingCosmos said:


> It's NXT.....NXT which most people don't even know about. Tell me when they surpass raw.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

KingCosmos said:


> It's NXT.....NXT which most people don't even know about. Tell me when they surpass raw.


Ah! Congrats! You’re my first one


----------



## Claro De Luna

Where did 1.4 million come from? Showbuzz Daily hasn't released last night's ratings data yet.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> 900,000 from the 18-49 demo is a seriously impressive number. Advertisers and TNT must be thrilled.


AEW did more than twice as many people as NXT in the Key Demo, NXT beat AEW in people over 50. The old fucks are living through the glory days still LMAO.


----------



## Vic

The repeat did 500K so close to 2M but 1.9 is amazing.


----------



## Ace

HankHill_85 said:


> There's no spin to this whatsoever. AEW fucking slayed NXT in live viewing, including the key demographics.
> 
> Congrats to everyone at AEW.
> 
> That said, consistency is going to be key and the real story is going to be where things will match up in Weeks 4, 6, 8, and so on.


The thing is WWE know they're going to get fucked in the ratings even if they put a Takeover level card.

They're going to start advertising their legends and main roster stars to hurt AEW.

WWE cannot afford to let AEW grow into a threat.


----------



## Taroostyles

Ace said:


> The thing is WWE know they're going to get fucked in the ratings even if they put a Takeover level card.
> 
> They're going to start advertising their legends and main roster stars to hurt AEW.
> 
> WWE cannot afford to let AEW grow into a threat.


Too late, they already are.


----------



## WhyTooJay

So how long until they put Cena/Taker/Goldberg/Hogan on NXT?


----------



## KingCosmos

I find it funny people are heralding this as some War. Nobody gives a damn about NXT. Hell I remember TNA was pulling 1.1- 1.6 million and no one ever thought it was a "war". AEW will never surpass or be as popular as WWE period. Just be happy that there is a alternative to the garbage that is RAW.


----------



## ElTerrible

ClintDagger said:


> Fox has to be thinking WTF? They potentially could have got similar numbers at a fraction of the price. This shows how over valued WWE’s content was.


Yeah no doubt, whoever negotiated that deal for Fox will get fired by the end of the years, while the WWE person should probably be made world champion for a day.


----------



## Cooper09

First episodes tend to do good numbers, wait until the next few weeks until the numbers start dwindling if they don't do something about these long boring matches and focus more on building up characters and storylines.


----------



## rexmundi

More than doubled in the demo! WWE :buried


----------



## Not Lying

This is great news for AEW. Congratulations!! 

I enjoyed the show.


----------



## ellthom

Ace said:


> NXT lubed and fucked.
> 
> That was a Takeover level show lmao, just watch Vince put Brock and Cena on NXT.
> 
> AEW would be doing high 1m had WWE not put NXT up against them.


Which sucks even more because they should have went up against Raw or Smackdown, instead they are making NxT the sacrificial lamb. 

AEW v NxT is like watching your parents argue as a kid and you want them to stop. Whats happening with AEW is good, but NXt has always been a little league. Winning against NxT means nothing. It;s Raw and Smackdown they wanna go up against, put them out of business not NxT


----------



## KingCosmos

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah! Congrats! You’re my first one


Was TNA nipping at WWEs heels with its 1.6 million ratings?


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

NXT was always going to get smoked. It was pure stupidity and spite what WWE did by moving it to a 2 hour Wednesday slot to try and derail AEW.
WWE should have just let AEW go about their business and crack on. NXT doesn't need to be a 2 hour show. It was fine the way it was.


----------



## Jonhern

Zappers said:


> I can buy tickets right now to any upcoming AEW events from ticketmaster for under $10. Not scalpers.


You should check again because you can't. Only one I see is Philly and those are resale tickets, ie scalpers. Boston the lowest price is $125 for platinum seats. All the rest have tickets at the low point of $20 which is what they have been pricing them at, they never lowered their prices. Once they come closer they will likely do some deals like WWE and have 3+me or BOGO, but right now that is not the case.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

If you guys are unaware, TNA debuted on Spike, and GREW in ratings every week. The premiere is massive, and next week will probably be a drop off, but it can absolutely grow from here. TNT hasn't hosted Wrestling in so long, and TNA was airing on Spike, where RAW was airing just a little while before.

Potential is limitless. Also, it's not like AEW blew their load for this show, delivering some Takeover level show, it was a standard television show that they could match weekly.


----------



## KingCosmos

V-Trigger said:


>


https://bleacherreport.com/articles/762173-inside-the-numbers-tna-impact-wrestling-ratings

Guess TNA was on WWE's ass right?


----------



## The XL 2

Lmao they put on a Takeover caliber card, opened with a world title match and still got demolished by over 500K viewers.


----------



## Ace

Taroostyles said:


> Too late, they already are.


Lol who did they announce for next week?

HBK's television return match? :lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

KingCosmos said:


> Was TNA nipping at WWEs heels with its 1.6 million ratings?


Smackdown did 2m the last couple of months

The main show and rerun is 2m

That’s nipping brother


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ha ha people actually think AEW will be worse going forward. None of you WWE fans have a right to complain about a product ever again. You’re loyal to a company that doesn’t care about you


----------



## rexmundi

They smashed nxt in the demo. .68 >.32 That 18-49 demo is close to Smackdown's. nxt did better AEW in the 50+ .36 to .34. Looks like AEW has those younger viewers that wwe craves.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> Fox has to be thinking WTF? They potentially could have got similar numbers at a fraction of the price. This shows how over valued WWE’s content was.


These are impressive numbers. But let's not forget what night this is on. Even if they got 2 million. It's a debut show. It was promoted to death by TNT and AEW and social media. It's a new thing.

TNA debuted at 2.2 million viewers. And that was against RAW on Monday night to put things in perspective.


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> If you guys are unaware, TNA debuted on Spike, and GREW in ratings every week. The premiere is massive, and next week will probably be a drop off, but it can absolutely grow from here. TNT hasn't hosted Wrestling in so long, and TNA was airing on Spike, where RAW was airing just a little while before.
> 
> Potential is limitless. Also, it's not like AEW blew their load for this show, delivering some Takeover level show, it was a standard television show that they could match weekly.


TNT and AEW need to start promoting hard.

Get a deal with Punk done, partner up with NJPW and try lure some guys from WWE over.


----------



## patpat

Aew's teenage audience is literally as big as nxt's total audience. Fucking assassination 
They threw balor ciampa a takeover card and still got raped


----------



## KrysRaw1

Zappers said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol the cheapest ones left for next Week show cost 150 dollars
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. The $10 and under seats are already sold out. Just like last night Wed. Now to get in on those cheaper seats you would have buy for the show in two weeks. They are all available at this moment. Hopefully you can score some if you're going.
> 
> Or if your going to a NXT event. Those tickets are always real cheap. Like $20 and under. Been like that forever.
Click to expand...

I wonder how much one of those 50 total seat-tickets from NXTs full attendance last night cost mate?
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/jxUF01M.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Maury" class="inlineimg" />


----------



## Sugnid

My little old post about some upstart wrestling company having some legs just drew 1.4m viewers in its debut show.

Good fucking times.


----------



## rbl85

KingCosmos said:


> https://bleacherreport.com/articles/762173-inside-the-numbers-tna-impact-wrestling-ratings
> 
> Guess TNA was on WWE's ass right?


What was the ratings of WWE in 2011 ?

Much higher than today.


----------



## AEWMoxley

KingCosmos said:


> https://bleacherreport.com/articles/762173-inside-the-numbers-tna-impact-wrestling-ratings
> 
> Guess TNA was on WWE's ass right?


RAW was drawing about 5 million viewers per week at that time, so no, clearly TNA was not on their level. They've been drawing low 2 million recently, however.

Terrible comparison, champ.


----------



## Ace

Man I can't remember the last time another wrestling show got fucked like this after putting this much effort into the show.

Big fucking L to Hunter and WWE.

I would pay good money to see Vince and HHH's reaction to the ratings.


----------



## ClintDagger

ScottishPsychopath said:


> NXT was always going to get smoked. It was pure stupidity and spite what WWE did by moving it to a 2 hour Wednesday slot to try and derail AEW.
> WWE should have just let AEW go about their business and crack on. NXT doesn't need to be a 2 hour show. It was fine the way it was.


Spite yes. Stupidity no. WWE is protecting its overall business interests by sacrificing NXT.


----------



## KrysRaw1

patpat said:


> Aew's teenage audience is literally as big as nxt's total audience. Fucking assassination
> They threw balor ciampa a takeover card and still got raped


They had to put on their best match as first and still got killed that timeframe according to ratings
:heston


----------



## Bosnian21

Wow 1.4 million against NXT and an MLB Wild Card game. Great rating tbh. 

I was expecting 800kish. One notable thing to me is it seems like there isn’t as much crossover between AEW and NXT audience as we thought. 

The ratings will almost certainly drop next week but starting off so high will definitely help the drop not be as bad imo.


----------



## Werner Heizenberg

Congratulations to AEW!

Damn, next week is gonna be very,very interesting.... Rock will be gone, non of the wrestling shows are gonna be "premiering", "debuting", whatever... WWE are gonna be back to their regular programming with very few title changes.I expect huge drop for WWE's ratings and AEW just has to hold on.


----------



## HankHill_85

Ace said:


> They're going to start advertising their legends and main roster stars to hurt AEW.


And then all that's gonna do is turn away the hardcore NXT fans, and you'll see the numbers drop even further.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*1.409M [16th] | 0.680D [2nd]

AEW | NXT:
1.409M | 0.891M [ + 0.518M | + 58.14% ]
0.680D | 0.320D [ + 0.360D | + 125.00% ]

AEW + NXT: 2.300M | 1.000D*


----------



## Ace

KrysRaw1 said:


> They had to put on their best match as first and still got killed that timeframe according to ratings
> :heston


 They had a 10 min overrun too.

I wonder how high ratings would have been if they were unopposed.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

NXT is no threat so starting next week let’s compare Dynamite numbers to Raw. Good luck Raw! This is a victory. Champagne to everyone. And WWE fans, go away! Let us have our moment


----------



## rexmundi

*AEW 1*
*
wwe 0*

Bend the knee, vince.

:heston


----------



## Ace

It's all downhill from here for NXT.

Not even a Takeover card can get them to 1m, Vince will start to load the shows with main roster stars and start booking shows while he makes Hunter go get him coffee.


----------



## Jonhern

Taroostyles said:


> Anyone downplaying this is crazy. Saying they were expected to crush them is asinine. This is a non WWE company beating the WWE in its 1st week.
> 
> This is a HUGE deal.


They didn't just beat nxt, they beat last week's smackdown


----------



## ClintDagger

Zappers said:


> These are impressive numbers. But let's not forget what night this is on. Even if they got 2 million. It's a debut show. It was promoted to death by TNT and AEW and social media. It's a new thing.
> 
> TNA debuted at 2.2 million viewers. And that was against RAW on Monday night to put things in perspective.


It’s not about the raw numbers. It’s about what TNT, NBCU, and Fox are paying for those raw numbers. My guess is SD settles in at about 2.5 million long term and AEW settles in at about half that. You’re talking a billion dollars to get those numbers over 5 years for Fox. I can’t see TNT even paying 5% of that for AEW. WWE’s value is taking a huge hit if AEW sustains this. A huge hit.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> TNT and AEW need to start promoting hard.
> 
> Get a deal with Punk done, partner up with NJPW and try lure some guys from WWE over.


Yup, now they have some legit evidence, they have a show that's strong with the Key demo, it's time to push the fuck out of it.

Pressure is going to be on AEW hard to do a compelling show every week.

Will be really interesting to see if this translates to additional buys for Full Gear and what it means to ticket sales.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

People seriously think AEW’s numbers will go down? How do you figure? I bet they go up! That ending last night was perfect


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Yup, now they have some legit evidence, they have a show that's strong with the Key demo, it's time to push the fuck out of it.
> 
> Pressure is going to be on AEW hard to do a compelling show every week.
> 
> Will be really interesting to see if this translates to additional buys for Full Gear and what it means to ticket sales.


Yep, they know the interest is there now to build they got.tp keep pushing and get themselves out there. They can't be content with this and settle because they will only regress.


----------



## TwistedLogic

Vic said:


> The repeat did 500K so close to 2M but 1.9 is amazing.


Keep in mind these are still strictly US TV ratings. Strictly TNT. Doesn't count TSN (Canada, 1 day notice, no promotion), ITV (UK, still to air), FITE TV (online), illegal streaming, and stuff like PS Vue (Meltzer says they tripled NXT's numbers there).

This also doesn't include Nielsen's DVR numbers for people who recorded AEW and are gonna watch over the next few days. It doesn't include TNT's own on-demand streaming service which is available for free to everyone in the US atm.

I would not be surprised if around 3-4M people actually end up watching the show with everything included.


----------



## Claro De Luna

RubberbandGoat said:


> NXT is no threat so starting next week let’s compare Dynamite numbers to Raw. Good luck Raw! This is a victory. Champagne to everyone. And WWE fans, go away! Let us have our moment


Not champagne.The bubblé!


----------



## Bosnian21

RubberbandGoat said:


> People seriously think AEW’s numbers will go down? How do you figure? I bet they go up! That ending last night was perfect


I’m rooting for AEW but you gotta consider how many new people/casuals/lapsed fans who checked it out thought “It’s OK but I’m not really interested.” Still, you are right in the fact if the casuals/lapsed fans did really like it, word of mouth may kick into gear and start boosting those ratings. Too early to tell.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The TNA comparisons are so fucking retarded for a wide variety of reasons that my head hurts from even thinking about it.


----------



## Dizzie

Wow, I was not expecting them ratings, unless you are hardened wwe fanboy, wrestling fans should be really fucking excited by this, to think aew were only 500k from some of Raw's recent numbers when there is no Austin's or premier's to hype up the shows.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m going to be bold and say they’ll get 2m
Next week again!


----------



## Chris90

Good number for their first show, congrats to them.


----------



## Chan Hung

AEW debut beat NXT debut ratings. Wow. Kudos AEW!!!!! That's cuz the damn machine was behind NXT forever.


----------



## rexmundi

AEW: This is not your grandfather's wrestling aka wwe. :lmao


----------



## TwistedLogic

Zappers said:


> *TNA debuted at 2.2 million viewers.* And that was against RAW on Monday night to put things in perspective.


Completely irrelevant. You're talking about 2004. Before cord-cutting, online services, illegal streaming, etc, etc, etc. 

To put that into perspective, the second last episode of Friends in 2004 did 24.51M viewers. The final episode did 52.46M. 

The second last episode of How I Met Your Mother in 2014 did 9.04M. The last did 13.13M. 

That shows you how much TV viewership changed in just 10 years and it's been another 5 years since then. AEW drawing 1.9M viewers on the same night on a single channel in 2019 is fucking galaxies better than 2.2m for TNA 15 years ago.


----------



## Zappers

ClintDagger said:


> It’s not about the raw numbers. It’s about what TNT, NBCU, and Fox are paying for those raw numbers. My guess is SD settles in at about 2.5 million long term and AEW settles in at about half that. You’re talking a billion dollars to get those numbers over 5 years for Fox. I can’t see TNT even paying 5% of that for AEW. WWE’s value is taking a huge hit if AEW sustains this. A huge hit.


Yes, I understand. I was referring to NXT and AEW their deals. Not FOX though, that's on another level as you mentioned.


----------



## The XL 2

KingCosmos said:


> Was TNA nipping at WWEs heels with its 1.6 million ratings?


People actually watched WWE back then. 1.4 is a threat to WWE when their main show barely does 2 million.


----------



## V-Trigger

Expect Roman Reigns at Full Sail in two weeks max.


----------



## rexmundi

nxt has done .43, .32, and .32 in the key demo for their first three shows.

AEW'S .68 beat the last two weeks combined. You know vince is totally coveting thy neighbor's demo. :lol

PS they almost tripled nxt in the M 12-34. .61 to .21


----------



## Dixie

Well, I guess it’s official now! AEW Dynamite premiere didn’t beat TNA IMPACTS best ratings. Let’s see what happens the next few months.


----------



## Zappers

TwistedLogic said:


> Completely irrelevant. You're talking about 2004. Before cord-cutting, online services, illegal streaming, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> To put that into perspective, the second last episode of Friends in 2004 did 24.51M viewers. The final episode did 52.46M.
> 
> The second last episode of How I Met Your Mother in 2014 did 9.04M. The last did 13.13M.
> 
> That shows you how much TV viewership changed in just 10 years and it's been another 5 years since then. AEW drawing 1.9M viewers on the same night on a single channel in 2019 is fucking galaxies better than 2.2m for TNA 15 years ago.


No , what I'm saying is TNA was not even close to the same buzz AEW is having over the last year. Not even on the same planet.

And about he ratings and cord cutting, years ago , times have changed, etc... Yes. Exactly. been saying that for ages. That's why when RAW pulls in the numbers they do each week, against major competition, it's impressive as hell.


----------



## TwistedLogic

They may have won the battle but they'll also win the war. :kappa


----------



## Blade Runner

ClintDagger said:


> Fox has to be thinking WTF? They potentially could have got similar numbers at a fraction of the price. This shows how over valued WWE’s content was.


TV ratings is only part of it.



FOX bought into the Smackdown license to use all over social media and other outlets where the brand is profitable. Cross-branding is a big deal.


The WWE is global. FOX is hoping to boost ratings and then benefit from WWE's market penetration and numerous resources. The product may suck right now, the TV ratings may be poor but WWE's infastructure is insane, and their actual brand (not current product) is huge in popular culture. 


They can't really do this with AEW. It would take them much longer because it'd be a new and relatively untested IP with far less resources and global reach. Also, AEW is tailor made for the diehard wrestling fans. Just look into the crowd, THAT's who they're catering to. Cody even said that they're catering to the fans that they already have. FOX is hoping to reach casuals too, and the WWE is arguably in the best position to pull this off once it gets it's act together creatively.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

People underestimate how much damage WWE did to themselves over the last FIFTEEN years, it hasn't been over night, it's literally been FIFTEEN YEARS of some of the most terrible shit I've seen in my life, brand loyalty existed to an extent, and it still does as you see with the 50+ demo, but from WWE's standpoint, this isn't something you can just turn around over night, if ever, especially if they don't change their booking methodologies.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

They did almost double what I was expecting (I thought 0.8 million), so this is awesome news. It's hard to tell which way things will go, although I will say that despite NXT having a solid roster, it just doesn't appeal to me on the same level as a league entirely separate from Vince's crap. 

Finn Balor going to NXT is a lose-lose, IMO. It's not going to give NXT the star power they need because by putting him in NXT, you're essentially saying Finn isn't a star. Didn't they do this with WWE's ECW, where it was an unofficial demotion on some level?

This is just the bottom of the hill, though. AEW is going to have to really work to sustain their audience, and they're fully capable of it. Mox and Omega, along with Jericho and Cody, are a great four pillars to build off of and I'd watch Mox over his former Shieldmates any day of the week.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

V-Trigger said:


> What facts?. WWE didn't knew about TNT and then countered with adding one hour to their program when they knew about it. If TNT gave Tuesdays to AEW you bet your ass that Vince would have moved NXT to Tuesdays.


NBA on TNT: Players Only is on Tuesdays. And NBA on TNT(Regular one) is on Thursdays.


----------



## Dixie

-Double Post


----------



## deadcool

USA must be pissed off. They were conned into paying an exorbitant amount for NXT and they got their a**es handed to them despite being on a network that has much wider reach than TNT. 

Well done AEW, take a bow, and keep 'em in AWE.

First time in over 20 years a wrestling show beat WWE in the ratings. This is truly the beginning.

Edit: Corrected the brand name as pointed out by @Mox Girl.


----------



## RapShepard

Surprised they smoked NXT by so much. Figured there would be a ton of channel flipping. They also exceeded my expectations. Great number for AEW and it's fans, certainly a day to talk shit.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

The Inbred Goatman said:


> AEW did more than twice as many people as NXT in the Key Demo, NXT beat AEW in people over 50. The old fucks are living through the glory days still LMAO.


Not _this_ old fuck.


----------



## Ace

Expect some announcements for NXT in the next few days. Vince usually reviews the numbers on Thursday/Friday and then you usually see announcements for the next Raw/SD on Thursday/Friday.


----------



## RKing85

No way of knowing, but I would love to know how many tickets AEW has sold for upcoming events in the last 20 hours.


----------



## Ace

I wonder what he'll do to reply to this.

Maybe they'll announce Brock for NXT on SD.


----------



## patpat

The Inbred Goatman said:


> If you guys are unaware, TNA debuted on Spike, and GREW in ratings every week. The premiere is massive, and next week will probably be a drop off, but it can absolutely grow from here. TNT hasn't hosted Wrestling in so long, and TNA was airing on Spike, where RAW was airing just a little while before.
> 
> Potential is limitless. Also, it's not like AEW blew their load for this show, delivering some Takeover level show, it was a standard television show that they could match weekly.


 there were 500k on repeat and a strong MLB competition dude. It's absolutely not sure it will drop we might be even more surprised


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Fuck you Vince.

Take a bow Tony & The Elite :clap

First time WWE beaten since 1998. Fully deserved after years of taking their fans for granted. Long may this continue.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> Expect some announcements for NXT in the next few days. Vince usually reviews the numbers on Thursday/Friday and then you usually see announcements for the next Raw/SD on Thursday/Friday.


I think his priority is to get FOX settled, but once that gets going, his next big focus will be to undermine AEW.


----------



## rexmundi

Ace said:


> I wonder what he'll do to reply to this.
> 
> Maybe they'll announce Brock for NXT on SD.


Watch vince make an advertised appearance on nxt. Cut some promo because he usually does make a difference on raw and smackdown. I wouldn't be surprised to see Brock or some of the retired legends rear their wrinkled heads as well.


----------



## TwistedLogic

ripcitydisciple said:


> NBA on TNT: Players Only is on Tuesdays. And NBA on TNT(Regular one) is on Thursdays.


Uh, didn't they scrap Players Only? Everyone hated that shit.


----------



## ClintDagger

KYRA BATARA said:


> TV ratings is only part of it.
> 
> 
> 
> FOX bought into the Smackdown license to use all over social media and other outlets where the brand is profitable. Cross-branding is a big deal.
> 
> 
> The WWE is global. FOX is hoping to boost ratings and then benefit from WWE's market penetration and numerous resources. The product may suck right now, the TV ratings may be poor but WWE's infastructure is insane, and their actual brand (not current product) is huge in popular culture.
> 
> 
> They can't really do this with AEW. It would take them much longer because it'd be a new and relatively untested IP with far less resources and global reach. Also, AEW is tailor made for the diehard wrestling fans. Just look into the crowd, THAT's who they're catering to. Cody even said that they're catering to the fans that they already have. FOX is hoping to reach casuals too, and the WWE is arguably in the best position to pull this off once it gets it's act together creatively.


You’re way under selling the importance of the raw and demo viewership numbers when you say it’s “just part of it”. It’s actually most of it. Sure everything you mention is a small factor as well but WWE isn’t the NFL where you can cross promote your other products to 20 million people a week. WWE is 10% of that. WWE got that deal because of their numbers which are included in the live, DVR proof, and sports oriented categories (which means good ad rates). AEW checks all of those boxes as well. At the end of the day, it’s WWE who gets a boost from the Fox brand and not vice versa. Fox just wants live, sports oriented programming that can bring 3 MM plus viewers year round on a Friday night.


----------



## Ace

WWE are definitely shook, they put together a Takeover level card, cut down the ads and even had an overrun to help them. In the end they still got Fucked hard.

So happy for Tony, Cody and The Elite. God I hope NJPW sees this and partners with AEW, what I would give to see the likes of Okada, Naito, Tanahashi, Ishii, Ibushi and Jay appear on AEW.


----------



## Jedah

I, too, was expecting about 800k. This is huge. There's no spinning this. In raw viewers and demos, NXT got blasted. Those numbers are almost near SmackDown's. 

And it does matter because if you're thinking "competing with NXT is small fry," that isn't the point. The point is that WWE is cynically using NXT to try and hem AEW in and this week, it didn't work, despite NXT trying to fire on all cylinders. Turns out they were firing duds and it looks like more people are finally realizing it. Earth to Hunter - it's time for you to give NXT a much-needed makeover if you want to compete!

Obviously, those numbers will taper off over the next few weeks. The shows in November should give us a good idea of the usual range of viewers, so let's see how it holds up. Let's hope they stay high and prove that WWE's strategy has failed. AEW needs to do the most to retain viewers but they're sure off to a good start.

This is massive. There's no getting around it. Exciting times.


----------



## Ace

90 people in this thread a lone hrs after the number came out lmao. Usually don't see a Raw or SD thread this active :lol


----------



## TwistedLogic

I'm just imagining Vince's subordinates with the same looks on their faces when they bring him the ratings as the henchmen in the famous Hitler raging meme video. 

:denirolol

Would hate to be the guy to break that news to him.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dreamer just said it - ‘remember, i was part of New ECW, which was supposed to be one thing, and the next week Vince changed everything. I fear for NXT’

Want to know how a man walks in the future? See how he walked in the past. NXT as it is now, is fucked unfortunately


----------



## Mox Girl

deadcool said:


> Fox must be pissed off. They were conned into paying an exorbitant amount for NXT and they got their a**es handed to them despite being on a network that has much wider reach than TNT.
> 
> Well done AEW, take a bow, and keep 'em in AWE.
> 
> First time in over 20 years a wrestling show beat WWE in the ratings. This is truly the beginning.


I thought NXT was on the USA Network...?


I’m not really into this war so to speak, cos I can’t watch either show on TV to begin with. I’m just glad they did so well and that the real battle is just beginning to see how their ratings are for a non debut episode.


----------



## Ace

Jedah said:


> I, too, was expecting about 800k. This is huge. There's no spinning this. In raw viewers and demos, NXT got blasted. Those numbers are almost near SmackDown's.
> 
> And it does matter because if you're thinking "competing with NXT is small fry," that isn't the point. The point is that WWE is cynically using NXT to try and hem AEW in and this week, it didn't work, despite NXT trying to fire on all cylinders. Turns out they were firing duds and it looks like more people are finally realizing it. Earth to Hunter - it's time for you to give NXT a much-needed makeover if you want to compete!
> 
> Obviously, those numbers will taper off over the next few weeks. The shows in November should give us a good idea of the usual range of viewers, so let's see how it holds up. Let's hope they stay high and prove that WWE's strategy has failed. AEW needs to do the most to retain viewers but they're sure off to a good start.
> 
> This is massive. There's no getting around it. Exciting times.


Yep now they know there's an audience and it's worth investing, AEW and TNT need to go in hard and try to grow it even more.

They need some mainstream gigs and should hold some events during the week at College campuses around the country to build some buzz.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Imagine what AEW could have really drawn if they didnt have any competition that night. I'm looking forward to seeing how AEW will keep their momentum with next weeks show.


----------



## Ace

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dreamer just said it - ‘remember, i was part of New ECW, which was supposed to be one thing, and the next week Vince changed everything. I fear for NXT’
> 
> Want to know how a man walks in the future? See how he walked in the past. NXT as it is now, is fucked unfortunately


Vince taking over is only going to drive the fans who watch over to AEW.

Perfect :lol


----------



## The XL 2

The TNA comparisons are off base. When TNA was at its peak, WWE was still a ratings juggernaut, they had no chance. AEW wouldn't have had a chance against such a beast either, but lucky for them, they've bled about half of their audience in the last 5 or so years with their awful product that's barely watchable, so AEW has a shot to surpass them. It's just like what happened with WWF and WCW back in the day, Jim Crockett Promotions/WCW had no shot at beating Vince in the mid 80s-early 90s, but once WWF shot themselves over and over again with silly shit and bled their market share, WCW was able to overtake them in 1995. Another difference between AEW and TNA is that their TV viewership to PPV audience and arena audience is actually good, they do strong numbers on PPV and they sell out massive buildings, whereas no one attended TNA shows and no one bought their PPVs. The closest comparison to AEW right now would be peak ECW, they were very close in terms of TV ratings and PPV buys. Even then, they've already beat peak ECW in terms of attendance and have way more upside due to being on prime time on TNT and not a graveyard timeslot on a network that didn't want them. And they're not competing with peak WWF and WCW, they're going against a dying company that no one watches anymore that bleeds more and more market share year after year. Make no mistake, they're a very real threat to WWE if they play their cards right.


----------



## rexmundi

Celebrate the rousing victory over vince and his evil empire.










:dance :dancingpenguin


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

The XL 2 said:


> The TNA comparisons are off base. When TNA was at its peak, WWE was still a ratings juggernaut, they had no chance. AEW wouldn't have had a chance against such a beast either, but lucky for them, they've bled about half of their audience in the last 5 or so years with their awful product that's barely watchable, so AEW has a shot to surpass them. It's just like what happened with WWF and WCW back in the day, Jim Crockett Promotions/WCW had no shot at beating Vince in the mid 80s-early 90s, but once WWF shot themselves over and over again with silly shit and bled their market share, WCW was able to overtake them in 1995. Another difference between AEW and TNA is that their TV viewership to PPV audience and arena audience is actually good, they do strong numbers on PPV and they sell out massive buildings, whereas no one attended TNA shows and no one bought their PPVs. The closest comparison to AEW right now would be peak ECW, they were very close in terms of TV ratings and PPV buys. Even then, they've already beat peak ECW in terms of attendance and have way more upside due to being on prime time on TNT and not a graveyard timeslot on a network that didn't want them. And they're not competing with peak WWF and WCW, they're going against a dying company that no one watches anymore that bleeds more and more market share year after year. Make no mistake, they're a very real threat to WWE if they play their cards right.


This just reaffirms what Cody said -- the environment is ripe right now for a new promotion. 5, 10 years ago, probably not. But enough wrestling fans are tired now of being dicked around for so long, the timing is perfect, with the backing of a business man who is also a _fan_ of the business. 

The other thing people need to put into perspective - AEW was not too far behind SD's usual Tuesday numbers, and that was against competition in the same timeslot. This was a huge accomplishment. If they retain 90% of this going forward, it's still a positive. But I think they laid the groundwork for at least that, and created enough buzz to attract more fans going forward. My guess, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they do even better next week.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179869425127886864


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Just a question, why are people saying AEW audience will go down? You really think last nights show was so bad it won’t grow? I keep seeing people say it’ll go down! Weird! I think the opposite!


----------



## Chan Hung

The XL 2 said:


> KingCosmos said:
> 
> 
> 
> Was TNA nipping at WWEs heels with its 1.6 million ratings?
> 
> 
> 
> People actually watched WWE back then. 1.4 is a threat to WWE when their main show barely does 2 million.
Click to expand...

This. And if NXT was on another day, AEW would have had ratings passing Raw or SD as of late
:maury


----------



## TwistedLogic

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dreamer just said it - ‘remember, i was part of New ECW, which was supposed to be one thing, and the next week Vince changed everything. I fear for NXT’
> 
> Want to know how a man walks in the future? See how he walked in the past. NXT as it is now, is fucked unfortunately


That's great, where did he say that?


----------



## Jedah

RubberbandGoat said:


> Just a question, why are people saying AEW audience will go down? You really think last nights show was so bad it won’t grow? I keep seeing people say it’ll go down! Weird! I think the opposite!


Launch day always has the highest audience with anything. That's just the way it is.

The numbers will taper off over the next couple of weeks until we get to a consistent range. That's just inevitable. The question now is what that range is. Then the question becomes if it can grow over time.


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> Just a question, why are people saying AEW audience will go down? You really think last nights show was so bad it won’t grow? I keep seeing people say it’ll go down! Weird! I think the opposite!


I think it's a case of most aren't expecting wrestling to go up. Sure it's not fair to judge AEW on WWE ratings, but when wrestling ratings have mostly been in either a steady decline or freefall, AEW having a great debut isn't enough to make people think different of what wrestling ratings are supposed to do. 

AEW would have to steadily increase for a long time to convince folk that wrestling on TV can actually bring in fans.


----------



## the44boz

How did WCW beat the WWF. By signing their biggest draw Hulk Hogan. How does AEW plan on beating the WWE. By signing their lowest drawing champion Jack Swagger.


----------



## TwistedLogic

MoxleyMoxx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179869425127886864


Huge. That pushes it over the 1.5M for the live first time broadcast in NA. 

That's also with AEW going against the fucking Leafs vs Senators in the season opener of the NHL. They also had _no_ promotion beforehand, since the deal between AEW and TSN was signed like a day before the first show and it wasn't even displayed on the TV guides of most of the viewers that have TSN.

A few weeks from now, AEW will be getting promoted on TSN broadcasts of both the Leafs _and_ the Raptors, who are both massive market teams in each sport.

I'm certain the TSN numbers will climb.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

But AEW has over performed in everything so far and has so many people eating crow. People are conditioned to how bad WWE is. AEW is creating the next boom period IMO. We are so used to how bad WWE is but this is different and feels special


----------



## the44boz

RubberbandGoat said:


> Just a question, why are people saying AEW audience will go down? You really think last nights show was so bad it won’t grow? I keep seeing people say it’ll go down! Weird! I think the opposite!


Because wrestling in general is losing popularity. You really believe there's another promotion that will come out of nowhere and beat the king of wrestling when the king themselves are going into the shitter. Face it there just won't be another boom period because wrestling will not have personalities like years past and social media has destroyed wrestling's mystique.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TwistedLogic said:


> That's great, where did he say that?




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179840704157224960
The ‘see how a man walks’ bit is my dad’s saying - and I 100% believe it

Vince will have his hands all over nxt soon


----------



## RubberbandGoat

the44boz said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a question, why are people saying AEW audience will go down? You really think last nights show was so bad it won’t grow? I keep seeing people say it’ll go down! Weird! I think the opposite!
> 
> 
> 
> Because wrestling in general is losing popularity. You really believe there's another promotion that will come out of nowhere and beat the king of wrestling when the king themselves are going into the shitter. Face it there just won't be another boom period because wrestling will not have personalities like years past and social media has destroyed wrestling's mystique.
Click to expand...

 my friend, you are going to be surprised!


----------



## NascarStan

AEW did a great job at starting to establish storylines and did its job on getting heat on Jericho while building to Full Gear, week 2 I expect aew to drop a little but week 3 where we have a title match will be the big test imo


----------



## elo

If AEW can hook that key male demo that tuned in last night then the numbers will only go up as they talk amongst each other at school, college, work etc and make pro wrestling "cool" to watch again - it's not going to be easy.

As for NXT - it's no chance of competing with the key demo whilst in Full Sail. NXT made AEW look like the more important show, flick between the two and you see 400 geeks in the audience cheering for the heels whilst AEW has 10,000+ having a blast.....the contrast was embarrassing.


----------



## RapShepard

Another high spot for AEW fans is they were the 2nd highest rated show on cable last night. They should mock WWE and throw the "AEW was the best rated wrestling show" graphic next week.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

the44boz said:


> Because wrestling in general is losing popularity. You really believe there's another promotion that will come out of nowhere and beat the king of wrestling when the king themselves are going into the shitter. Face it there just won't be another boom period because wrestling will not have personalities like years past and social media has destroyed wrestling's mystique.


This is the sort of post that’ll make Cody and the Elite go.... “i’ll take that bet”


----------



## rexmundi

It was fun watching nxt and not hearing that "we are trending #1 worldwide." Keep it up, AEW. :mark


----------



## The Boy Wonder

Congrats to AEW. I was very impressed with the presentation: it felt like a big show with the lighting and the camera angles. I'm so used to seeing tarped off crowds this year in WWE.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> the44boz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because wrestling in general is losing popularity. You really believe there's another promotion that will come out of nowhere and beat the king of wrestling when the king themselves are going into the shitter. Face it there just won't be another boom period because wrestling will not have personalities like years past and social media has destroyed wrestling's mystique.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the sort of post that’ll make Cody and the Elite go.... “i’ll take that bet”
Click to expand...

 exactly! They’ve won every bet so far!


----------



## Jedah

elo said:


> If AEW can hook that key male demo that tuned in last night then the numbers will only go up as they talk amongst each other at school, college, work etc and make pro wrestling "cool" to watch again - it's not going to be easy.
> 
> As for NXT - it's no chance of competing with the key demo whilst in Full Sail. NXT made AEW look like the more important show, flick between the two and you see 400 geeks in the audience cheering for the heels whilst AEW has 10,000+ having a blast.....the contrast was embarrassing.


That's actually one of the best points I've seen here.

That social proof disparity matters _a lot._ Social proof is one of the most important things in persuasion.

WWE is going to have to start taking NXT to arenas if they want to compete with that. But can NXT fill them on a weekly basis? AEW has some benefit from all the buzz for now but they have to make sure their live shows don't taper off, literally.


----------



## Jonhern

According to the wrap they did 1.8million viewers with the replay counted. I think tnt will end up sticking with the replay. 1.1 million in the 18-49 demo. That's might be close to raws ratings from this week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

TwistedLogic said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179850623929536513If there was any doubt in TNT's minds, it's gone. They're gonna promote the fuck out of this show.
> 
> Push AEW to the god damn moon.


holy fuck


----------



## TD Stinger

Well, that is impressive. Not so much that they beat NXT, but that they did so that by that wide of a margin. Whether that's hype for AEW, curiosity for something new, disinterest in NXT, or a combination of all of it, I don't know.

But still, a huge win for AEW, NXT or no NXT. Now obviously the question is what happens next. Is 1.4 their floor or their ceiling. That is what I'm interested in seeing what happens next.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

This only proves that pro-wrestling is not dead. If you consider that on a Wednesday night, there's at least 2.5 milli people who would watch wrestling.

It's that WWE fucked up so bad, they lost viewers to other shows.


----------



## Joejustjoe66

I feel a bit sorry for AEW that all the talk is about them and NXT rather than WWE as a whole

Vince trying a bit of word association planting the seed that they’re small time like NXT rather than Raw or SD level

All I know is finally wrestling is exciting again


----------



## TwistedLogic

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The ‘see how a man walks’ bit is my dad’s saying - and I 100% believe it
> 
> Vince will have his hands all over nxt soon


Thanks! And your dad sounds awesome and wise as hell because that's a bad ass saying. He should write wrestling promos.


----------



## CRCC

Great number. Great news.

Let's see if they can keep building on the quality of the first show. In the long run the ratings should follow suit.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

TwistedLogic said:


> Thanks! And your dad sounds awesome and wise as hell because that's a bad ass saying. He should write wrestling promos.


He’s a preacher, so.... almost same? 

Legit, one of the smartest men I know - thanks for the props


----------



## V-Trigger

Joejustjoe66 said:


> I feel a bit sorry for AEW that all the talk is about them and NXT rather than WWE as a whole
> 
> Vince trying a bit of word association planting the seed that they’re small time like NXT rather than Raw or SD level
> 
> All I know is finally wrestling is exciting again


USA owns NXT now. I'm sure as hell that they aren't happy with Vince treating it like a C grade show.


----------



## Joe Gill

AEW should do a few special episodes in the future of dynamite on monday night just to create some buzz and test the waters of a monday night war. 

USA is not very happy with RAW rating given how much they pay for the rights.... if AEW cuts into their ratings Vince would flip out.


----------



## Chan Hung

I love how a bunch of WWE diehards say there's no coincidence but they start adding pyro they start putting on the show on Wednesday they start trying to go to ours and it's all failing and I'm loving it go eat crow WWE haha


----------



## shandcraig

It's about trying to create a good product not constantly trying to fight against somebody else. It's all going to do specials at should be on a Saturday kind of like a cheaper version are the pay-per-view but free on TV


----------



## Chrome

That's a nice number, I predicted 1.3 and they got 1.4. I kinda figured they'd beat NXT in the ratings, but didn't they'd squash them like that. LOL.


----------



## EMGESP

If there is a drop it'll be very very low. 1.3 million next week at worse. I think the show delivered and vast majority will come back and possibly some new viewers after all the word of mouth.


----------



## bradatar

I called the number exact can I get a heyooooooo


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

MoxleyMoxx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179869425127886864


 Less than a days notice and ZERO promotion.


----------



## Ace

Chrome said:


> That's a nice number, I predicted 1.3 and they got 1.4. I kinda figured they'd beat NXT in the ratings, but didn't they'd squash them like that. LOL.


 Bro they did a Takeover show with a weeks promotion, ad time cut and 15 min overrun. This is a such a big steaming L :lmao

Vince must be fuming, you can just tell they're pissed with that PR release before the ratings :lmao


----------



## KingCosmos

AEW initial hype is nothing and a year from now there will be no more "It will surpass WWE" BET on it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Joe Gill said:


> AEW should do a few special episodes in the future of dynamite on monday night just to create some buzz and test the waters of a monday night war.
> 
> USA is not very happy with RAW rating given how much they pay for the rights.... if AEW cuts into their ratings Vince would flip out.


Tony said ‘never a monday’

It is not in his interest to dilute the NFL more - for obvs reasons

He’s already winning the Monday night war as an NFL owner


----------



## Jedah

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179879236083081216
:vince2


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179854828811345920
:vince6


----------



## rbl85

KingCosmos said:


> AEW initial hype is nothing and a year from now there will be no more *"It will surpass WWE" BET on it*


Who said that ?

The answer is easy : NOBODY


----------



## bradatar

Ace said:


> Bro they did a Takeover show with a weeks promotion, ad time cut and 15 min overrun. This is a such a big steaming L :lmao
> 
> 
> 
> Vince must be fuming, you can just tell they're pissed with that PR release before the ratings :lmao




It’s a major win for AEW and anyone saying anything else is stubborn or lying. I do this for a living like I admitted in another thread. This is big time for a premiere. Beating NXT like that is massive. They’re not gonna be dipping much either at least for a bit. Maybe 1.2-16 will be the range but that’s not at ALL bad. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

KingCosmos said:


> AEW initial hype is nothing and a year from now there will be no more "It will surpass WWE" BET on it


I’ll take that bet.


----------



## Taroostyles

How on Earth is their initial hype nothing? They just destroyed NXT and beat Smackdown in the most important demographic from their last show. 

If anything, they arent getting enough credit. If you had said 2 years ago a promotion created by Cody and The Bucks was going to beat a WWE produced program on its 1st night people would have told you you were insane.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reason 500 why AEW will win

They are training the trios shoulder carry for real


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179877788074958848


----------



## Ace

This number will mean nothing if they don't go all in and look to capitalize.

No point being content because the odds are it will either stagnant or decline, get out there and create a buzz.


----------



## TheLooseCanon




----------



## TwistedLogic

Ace said:


> Less than a days notice and ZERO promotion.


Against Leafs vs Sens NHL season opener in that exact time slot.


----------



## Chrome

Ace said:


> Bro they did a Takeover show with a weeks promotion, ad time cut and 15 min overrun. This is a such a big steaming L :lmao
> 
> Vince must be fuming, you can just tell they're pissed with that PR release before the ratings :lmao


Also look at the discussion threads. The Dynamite thread in 1 week already surpassed the NXT live thread which has been up for 3 weeks.


----------



## EMGESP

KingCosmos said:


> AEW initial hype is nothing and a year from now there will be no more "It will surpass WWE" BET on it


Can you be more of a WWE mark with that comment?


----------



## Randy Lahey

The demo tells the story. AEW has the viewers advertisers want. I think they will have a home on TNT for a long time. Hopefully they move them to Monday and go directly against Raw.


----------



## bradatar

TheLooseCanon said:


>




Told your ass 1.4 was the number. If they continue to impress I see 1.6-1.7 being the numbers. More Tony, more angles, def more hosses, and more brawls. This company gets what we want 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ace

Randy Lahey said:


> The demo tells the story. AEW has the viewers advertisers want. I think they will have a home on TNT for a long time. Hopefully they move them to Monday and go directly against Raw.


 Too early for it, but if they do fuck Raw in the draft and make it the B show, they could try it in a year. I've read Monday is a much better night for TV.


----------



## Ace

bradatar said:


> Told your ass 1.4 was the number. If they continue to impress I see 1.6-1.7 being the numbers. More Tony, more angles, def more hosses, and more brawls. This company gets what we want
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Angles aren't enough, they need to get themselves out there in the public.

Get people tuning in and not rely on word of mouth, this 1.4m is not sustainable with solely angles and word of mouth.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Their Audience will grow. I bet there is AEW ads on Fox this Friday lol


----------



## RubberbandGoat

No mondays. Don’t go against football. Make it fridays or stay on Wednesday


----------



## Randy Lahey

bradatar said:


> Told your ass 1.4 was the number. If they continue to impress I see 1.6-1.7 being the numbers. More Tony, more angles, def more hosses, and more brawls. This company gets what we want
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do wonder if 2.2 is the total amount of wrestling fans willing to watch wrestling on TV right now. 2.2 is (AEW + NXT), and that is usually what Raw gets, a little more than what Smackdown gets.

So I'm thinking, if 2.2 is the pie of wrestling tv viewers, that if AEW went directly against Raw, Raw would be at most 1.3-1.4 mils


----------



## bradatar

Ace said:


> Angles aren't enough, they need to get themselves out there in the public.
> 
> Get people tuning in and not rely on word of mouth, this 1.4m is not sustainable with solely angles and word of mouth.




Big storyline would help. If I’m Tony I pay Dave Bautista to work for me for a year. Give him 10-15 if need be. Work something with a BIG star and it prints money. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Randy Lahey

Ace said:


> Angles aren't enough, they need to get themselves out there in the public.
> 
> Get people tuning in and not rely on word of mouth, this 1.4m is not sustainable with solely angles and word of mouth.


Once the NBA on TNT gets rolling, I'm sure TNT will advertise them plenty.


----------



## EMGESP

If AEW can slaughter NXT after the level of show NXT put out then just imagine the gap when NXT just puts out just their average level show.


----------



## reamstyles

So the number of pure wrestling fans is less than 2.5 million?


----------



## Ace

EMGESP said:


> If AEW can slaughter NXT after the level of show NXT put out then just imagine the gap when NXT just puts out just their average level show.


 They've got Walter vs Kushida next week which is a big drop on names from this week.


----------



## bradatar

Ace said:


> They've got Walter vs Kushida next week which is a big drop on names from this week.




Mox debuts next week they’re so fucked. If TNT runs commercials they’ll break 1.4 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Brodus Clay

bradatar said:


> Big storyline would help. If I’m Tony I pay Dave Bautista to work for me for a year. Give him 10-15 if need be. Work something with a BIG star and it prints money.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Last time Batista looked done could barely move and wasn't that good at promos he only wanted to retire with HHH doing the honors, of course motivated Batista would help a lot.


----------



## Ace

They need to be looking at bringing in some big names who can help get eyes on the product as well as the future.

The next big star in the business is what both companies will be looking for.


----------



## Stellar

Awesome for AEW! I honestly expected them to crush NXT just because it was their debut episode. Everyone had been waiting for this all year practically.

It is important not to get over confident though. WWE is right about it being a marathon and not a sprint (even though their first match on the show was the NXT Championship match). The viewership can grow or decline from here on either show.

AEW right now feels like it has more of a fresh product because it is completely new.

I do agree that NXT has to figure out how to draw more so that they can guarantee to do well on the road and get out of Full Sail. Being in front of the same crowd every week wont help them vs. AEW.


----------



## Ace

Southerner said:


> Awesome for AEW! I honestly expected them to crush NXT just because it was their debut episode. Everyone had been waiting for this all year practically.
> 
> It is important not to get over confident though. WWE is right about it being a marathon and not a sprint (even though their first match on the show was the NXT Championship match). The viewership can grow or decline from here on either show.
> 
> AEW right now feels like it has more of a fresh product because it is completely new.
> 
> I do agree that NXT has to figure out how to draw more so that they can guarantee to do well on the road and get out of Full Sail. Being in front of the same crowd every week wont help them vs. AEW.


Yeah, NXT need to regroup and find a new way to approach this.

You can't be giving away Takeover's each week, that's not going to work and you cannot do shows infront of the same small audience each week. The problem they have is they can't go on the road and do shows in big arenas because they can't sell the tickets.


----------



## InexorableJourney

If AEW were put on the stock exchange right now, they could be a billion dollar company.


----------



## Chan Hung

Jedah said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179879236083081216
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Jade1.png" border="0" alt="" title="Vince McMahon" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1179854828811345920
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/A3GTFdT.png" border="0" alt="" title="Vince" class="inlineimg" />


I mean they rely on legends and dont make stars. Older people like legends..heck I do too...but it's good AEW appeals to younger audiences too


----------



## The XL 2

If AEW can keep this viewership initially, they can absolutely surpass WWE, even as soon as 6 months. They have a lot of advantages. 

-Their top guys are way better than WWEs top guys.

-Their production value is just as good as WWE

-They have the best prospect in wrestling by far, MJF. The only guy WWE has that comes close is Velveteen Dream, and while he's great, he's not quite as good and the WWE will for sure screw him up anyway

-TV 14 vs PG

-Unscripted promos vs scripted garbage

-Matches called in the ring vs WWEs formulaic style

-They have prime time timeslot on a big time, A+ tier network in TNT

-A clear, long term vision decided by a small group of people, not a corporate nightmare headed by a badly aging old man with an ever changing mind and an unnecessary amount of writers.

They have a better, more edgy product, straight up. Even though they're not perfect, they have the platform, they have the ability to push the envelope and run riskier angles, the performers are allowed to be themselves and not who Vince McMahon wants them to be. And they're already close. Raw got like 2.1 million viewers a couple of weeks ago. AEW is already at 1.4. It's not like they have a crazy gap to close, if WWE doesn't watch themselves, they could find themselves as the number 2 company in America really fast.


----------



## Ace

The XL 2 said:


> If AEW can keep this viewership initially, they can absolutely surpass WWE, even as soon as 6 months. They have a lot of advantages.
> 
> -Their top guys are way better than WWEs top guys.
> 
> -Their production value is just as good as WWE
> 
> -They have the best prospect in wrestling by far, MJF. The only guy WWE has that comes close is Velveteen Dream, and while he's great, he's not quite as good and the WWE will for sure screw him up anyway
> 
> -TV 14 vs PG
> 
> -Unscripted promos vs scripted garbage
> 
> -Matches called in the ring vs WWEs formulaic style
> 
> -They have prime time timeslot on a big time, A+ tier network in TNT
> 
> -A clear, long term vision decided by a small group of people, not a corporate nightmare headed by a badly aging old man with an ever changing mind and an unnecessary amount of writers.
> 
> They have a better, more edgy product, straight up. Even though they're not perfect, they have the platform, they have the ability to push the envelope and run riskier angles, the performers are allowed to be themselves and not who Vince McMahon wants them to be. And they're already close. Raw got like 2.1 million viewers a couple of weeks ago. AEW is already at 1.4. It's not like they have a crazy gap to close, if WWE doesn't watch themselves, they could find themselves as the number 2 company in America really fast.


 Agree with most of it aside from surpassing WWE within 6 months.

It's going to take a lot of time, money and effort to surpass Raw or SD (unless Raw dies post draft).


----------



## The XL 2

Ace said:


> Agree with most of it aside from surpassing WWE within 6 months.
> 
> It's going to take a lot of time, money and effort to surpass Raw or SD (unless Raw dies post draft).


I'm not expecting AEW to break 2 mil in 6 months, I'm guessing around 1.7-1.8 if all goes well. But I am expecting WWE to continue their implode in viewership. Both Raw and Smackdown have gone down year after year, especially the last two years, and I think the brand split will make it worse by splitting whatever little starpower they have in half.


----------



## looper007

Ace said:


> Agree with most of it aside from surpassing WWE within 6 months.
> 
> It's going to take a lot of time, money and effort to surpass Raw or SD (unless Raw dies post draft).


I don't think it's about surpassing WWE, it should be about making AEW a legit second wrestling company in the United States. Basically try to become a new WCW.

No one is coming close to WWE for the foreseeable future.


----------



## NXT Only

AEW likely won’t compete financially with the WWE but they will put on better shows and have better critical success.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Why do people keep saying that nobody can surpass WWE? Give me a break. WWE has lost millions of viewers the last 5 years. They’re not even that impressive. You make it seem like they’re insurmountable lol they barely have an audience lol


----------



## deadcool

Mox Girl said:


> I thought NXT was on the USA Network...?
> 
> 
> I’m not really into this war so to speak, cos I can’t watch either show on TV to begin with. I’m just glad they did so well and that the real battle is just beginning to see how their ratings are for a non debut episode.


Thank you. Corrected.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> They've got Walter vs Kushida next week which is a big drop on names from this week.


While AEW has already announced a Jericho promo with his new stable, Moxley in action against spears and the opening of the tag title tournament. NXT is going to get obliterated again, especially without a Takeover show. 

Jon Moxley in action or fucking Drew Gulak Vs Lio Rush LMAO


----------



## headstar

With jobbers like Jack Swagger as one of their top guys, no way will AEW retain viewers. CM Punk was open to offers and negotiations. I don't know how AEW failed to sign him. Punk was the one guy who could've gotten them to over 3 million viewers. Tony is already proving to be a poor business man when it comes to pro-wrestling. Inferior even to Eric Bischoff. At least Bischoff knew that Big name stars = ticket sales and TV ratings.

Bischoff is also the only man who can claim he beat WWE in the ratings. Beating NXT doesn't count or matter. Beating Raw in the ratings is the only way AEW could become legit.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Southerner said:


> It is important not to get over confident though. WWE is right about it being a marathon and not a sprint (even though their first match on the show was the NXT Championship match). The viewership can grow or decline from here on either show.


That's such a hypocritical statement coming from WWE. They literally sprinted and rushed to get an NXT deal on USA, kicking it off early on the network with the jarring 1 hour on Television, 1 hour on network shit.

Then they sprint to do a obscenely stacked show, for a one night pop rating that they can't duplicate every week, and still got murdered. 

It extends to the main roster too, instead of creating compelling, long term storylines, they are all about bringing legends back to draw cheap pop ratings for one night. They are even taking the short term money with these TV deals, all these hours of TV and diluting their product because of the short term sprint money.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RubberbandGoat said:


> Why do people keep saying that nobody can surpass WWE? Give me a break. WWE has lost millions of viewers the last 5 years. They’re not even that impressive. You make it seem like they’re insurmountable lol they barely have an audience lol


As much as WWE has been sucking, they are still very solidly established and have a sound fan base, numerous distribution channels, and very powerful brand recognition. There will be challenges to tv ratings, but there are a lot of legs to buckle before the whole thing topples. It’s going to take something really catastrophic for them to fail. 

Part of the viewer loss can obviously be attributed to their crappy product, but it is also partly tied to changing viewer habits. AEW has to contend with those habit changes as well. 

Now that doesn’t mean it’s impossible for AEW to catch or even overtake them in weekly ratings, but it’s a pretty tall order. If AEW can maintain and slowly build on what they pulled last night, and keep up solid live ticket sales, they should be in good shape for the long term. That should be their immediate goal. The rest will be a matter of whether or not WWE can fix their shit as far as AEW catching or surpassing them in ratings. 

What I think could be very interesting is if AEW will have any impact on WWE’s flagship program ratings. Even though they are not head-to-head, are there any fans who’ve been getting their fix from WWE because it’s been their only option now going to start drifting away because there’s a better alternative? That’s going to be a longer-term metric to follow, but will be much more telling than what AEW does against NXT.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/6bjaru/cody_rhodes_ill_take_that_bet_dave/

Absolutely fascinating old Reddit thread from when Cody responded to Meltzer's tweet in 2017 about selling 10,000 tickets for a show. The amount of egg on peoples face in that thread is amazing 2 years later.


----------



## Cult03

The Inbred Goatman said:


> https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/6bjaru/cody_rhodes_ill_take_that_bet_dave/
> 
> Absolutely fascinating old Reddit thread from when Cody responded to Meltzer's tweet in 2017 about selling 10,000 tickets for a show. The amount of egg on peoples face in that thread is amazing 2 years later.


I don't get this. AEW has never just been ROH with Cody and the Bucks. Adding Chris Jericho from the beginning was huge but definitely not something ROH could have done. Add to that the hype of a possible CM Punk debut and that's your 10k there. I don't like saying this but Dave Meltzer was right.


----------



## Taroostyles

headstar said:


> With jobbers like Jack Swagger as one of their top guys, no way will AEW retain viewers. CM Punk was open to offers and negotiations. I don't know how AEW failed to sign him. Punk was the one guy who could've gotten them to over 3 million viewers. Tony is already proving to be a poor business man when it comes to pro-wrestling. Inferior even to Eric Bischoff. At least Bischoff knew that Big name stars = ticket sales and TV ratings.
> 
> Bischoff is also the only man who can claim he beat WWE in the ratings. Beating NXT doesn't count or matter. Beating Raw in the ratings is the only way AEW could become legit.


How does beating NXT not matter? If anyone had said that a year ago they would have been laughed at. 

People just keep diminishing the accomplishments of AEW and then changing expectations. Now they need to get to 3 million right away? 

This is going to be the story though, nobody wants to admit they were wrong.


----------



## Kewf1988

Jedah said:


> Launch day always has the highest audience with anything. That's just the way it is.
> 
> The numbers will taper off over the next couple of weeks until we get to a consistent range. That's just inevitable. The question now is what that range is. Then the question becomes if it can grow over time.


TNA's launch on Spike got under a 1.0... they grew by putting on good show after good show, being DIFFERENT than WWE. WCW did the same with Nitro, as they weren't beating the WWF immediately (the NWO angle was what put them over WWF for close to two years). AEW was going up against NXT, which is a show structured like how Impact was its first year when D'Amore was booking, with a big focus on quality wrestling, but with MUCH less star power than Impact, which had Sting, Christian, the Dudleys, etc. NXT's biggest star is Finn Balor, while AEW has Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley, which is a big difference. Also, you're underestimating how many people are turned off of WWE, but not wrestling in general... just like how the Sting/Hogan fiasco at Starrcade coupled with Austin going over clean at WM 14 was the catalyst to WWF becoming #1, AEW listening to its fans coupled with WWE destroying anybody who gets over organically like Bryan, Punk, and Rusev could be the catalyst to AEW becoming #1. It's not that difficult.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Looks like Meltzer talks about the quarter hour ratings for last night's episode in the latest issue of the WON. If anyone here is a subscriber, it'd be interesting to see the breakdown.


----------



## RiverFenix

A 2 hour ask a week is MUCH different than 7+ hour ask a week. I wouldn't commit to watching 7 hours a week for 52 weeks a year of anything. How great is it to have to wait in anticipation for a full week and then get the full storyline experience over two hours...

Imagine trying to attract new viewers to the genre by demanding 7 hours of their time a week.


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

I want to see AEW go head to head with raw or smackdown on Monday or Friday nights.


----------



## Ace

For 18-34, for males AEW beat Raw by 39.9 percent, beat Smackdown by 36.4 percent and beat NXT by 157.7 percent.

For 18-34, for women, AEW beat Raw by 13.5 percent, beat Smackdown by 37.0 percent and beat NXT by 48.8 percent.


----------



## V-Trigger

Tk Adeyemi said:


> I want to see AEW go head to head with raw or smackdown on Monday or Friday nights.


Not gonna happen and it doesn't have to do with WWE. Khan has said that he will never go against the NFL.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

TwistedLogic said:


> Uh, didn't they scrap Players Only? Everyone hated that shit.


You are right. They did cancel it. The games are still played though so AEW couldn't go to Tuesdays like people have been saying.


----------



## ClintDagger

I had a friend that hasn’t watched wrestling in 20 years text me today and ask if I watched AEW last night and that he didn’t but heard it was good. That impressed me because he isn’t someone I would have thought would have AEW anywhere on his radar.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Wonder what will happen if this is another 82 weeks scenario lol


----------



## shandcraig

Than cody will have his own podcast show??


----------



## shandcraig

I talked to a few people that dont watch wrestling but heard of AEW, cody maybe onto something when he said he wants those millions of fans that left in 2001 back


----------



## RubberbandGoat

They already took fans away from WWE. Just ask green shirt guy. Lol


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

I also find it amazing that the same "anti smarks" WWE "tough guys" that have done nothing but shit on NXT over the past few years, are now championing it as a way to try and be vehemently against AEW. Pretty sad and pathetic.


----------



## the44boz

RubberbandGoat said:


> They already took fans away from WWE. Just ask green shirt guy. Lol


The only thing they took from WWE were the wrestlers they didn't want.


----------



## the44boz

RubberbandGoat said:


> Wonder what will happen if this is another 82 weeks scenario lol


AEW doesn't have the star power that WCW had but I do see a deja vu scenerio all over again just more short lived. Too many are hyped about it but it's a similar boat to WCW. Deep pocket owner and former talent from their rival. Also bringing in talent from across the globe to expand their market.


----------



## EMGESP

the44boz said:


> AEW doesn't have the star power that WCW had but I do see a deja vu scenerio all over again just more short lived. Too many are hyped about it but it's a similar boat to WCW. Deep pocket owner and former talent from their rival. Also bringing in talent from across the globe to expand their market.


Naaa, people want an alternative and people like Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Young Bucks and Omega should be able to keep the momentum going for the forseeable future. Then you have all these fresh faces that are slowly already getting over with the crowd. Luchasauras is already a crowd favorite.


----------



## SPCDRI

For a lot of people, the ratings only mattered in the vacuum. People had one side they were rooting for and the spin was always going to be there regardless. There are few people who truly thought viewership and demographics numbers didn't matter at all. Its just now that one side had a clear cut victory over the other one (200,000+ higher for the debut episode, over half a million higher head to head) that the "ratings don't matter" because blah blah blah. 

I think the ratings do matter, I was rooting for AEW, and if AEW did 900,000 and NXT did 1.4 million I'd be pissed off and shitting bricks because I'd be worried about the long-term future of AEW and WWE.


----------



## patpat

bradatar said:


> I called the number exact can I get a heyooooooo
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 heyooooooooo lmao


----------



## Joejustjoe66

Dumb question but do streams via ITV hub in the UK count or strictly USA ratings


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Joejustjoe66 said:


> Dumb question but do streams via ITV hub in the UK count or strictly USA ratings


Strictly a US thing

And only a TV and DVR thing - so, online views on the TNT app or whatever does not count


----------



## Bennu

That's a very good start for AEW, now let's see if they can keep that momentum going.


----------



## Chan Hung

the44boz said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> They already took fans away from WWE. Just ask green shirt guy. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing they took from WWE were the wrestlers they didn't want.
Click to expand...

They wanted Dean Ambrose
He left


----------



## roadkill_

How are upcoming ticket sales for Dynamite over the next month?


----------



## RapShepard

May have missed but what did TNT say about the rating. Surely they've come out as more than pleased?


----------



## Jonhern

Taroostyles said:


> How on Earth is their initial hype nothing? They just destroyed NXT and beat Smackdown in the most important demographic from their last show.
> 
> If anything, they arent getting enough credit. If you had said 2 years ago a promotion created by Cody and The Bucks was going to beat a WWE produced program on its 1st night people would have told you you were insane.


They also came very close to what RAW has been doing before this week, which is a .7 demo rating.


----------



## Jonhern

reamstyles said:


> So the number of pure wrestling fans is less than 2.5 million?


not really, its an average viewership for the two hours, so if someone watches just a bit it doesn't count as one viewer if you get what I mean. Its also not unique impressions, some people are watching both.


----------



## patpat

Riho vs nyla doubled their young female audience viewership.


----------



## Jonhern

headstar said:


> With jobbers like Jack Swagger as one of their top guys, no way will AEW retain viewers. CM Punk was open to offers and negotiations. I don't know how AEW failed to sign him. Punk was the one guy who could've gotten them to over 3 million viewers. Tony is already proving to be a poor business man when it comes to pro-wrestling. Inferior even to Eric Bischoff. At least Bischoff knew that Big name stars = ticket sales and TV ratings.
> 
> Bischoff is also the only man who can claim he beat WWE in the ratings. Beating NXT doesn't count or matter. Beating Raw in the ratings is the only way AEW could become legit.


I mean they didn't do it this first week, but they are not far off from what RAW has been doing. And since they have younger viewers they won't have to grow the audience a ton to match RAW or possibly beat them, especially during football season when WWE has heavy competition from the NFL. Who knows what Jack does for them, but you forget they have Mox who has a big following and can retain those viewers as they build up guys like Omega and MJF. Punk is old and has been gone too long at this point and has even said he is not open to wrestling. Would he be a big get, sure, but their show will not live or die because of one guy. That's a bad way to try to build a promotion in this day an age, you need a diverse roster to bring in lots of different people. Frankly, I think most of the people clamoring for Punk are going to watch regardless since they don't like WWE. 

Thanks to JonnyAceLaryngitis, for making it easy to look at this info, a quick scan of all his postings on ratings, AEW's rating would have beat or matched every single SDL since May in the ratings, would've matched once or twice. And they would've come within a few hundredths of a point from matching several raws that were in the low .7 range. So the question is not NXT, they are not the competition to AEW, it's a red herring. They are going to be in competition with RAW for the weekly cable ratings. They are getting a ton of good press right now, high marks for the show and good word of mouth. I don't see it as a given that they will lose viewers next week. If RAW drops back down to what it has been doing consistently, AEW has a good chance of being neck and neck with them this fall if they can hold the interest of their young viewers.


----------



## Jonhern

Reggie Dunlop said:


> As much as WWE has been sucking, they are still very solidly established and have a sound fan base, numerous distribution channels, and very powerful brand recognition. There will be challenges to tv ratings, *but there are a lot of legs to buckle before the whole thing topples. It’s going to take something really catastrophic for them to fail. *
> 
> Part of the viewer loss can obviously be attributed to their crappy product, but it is also partly tied to changing viewer habits. AEW has to contend with those habit changes as well.
> 
> Now that doesn’t mean it’s impossible for AEW to catch or even overtake them in weekly ratings, but it’s a pretty tall order. If AEW can maintain and slowly build on what they pulled last night, and keep up solid live ticket sales, they should be in good shape for the long term. That should be their immediate goal. The rest will be a matter of whether or not WWE can fix their shit as far as AEW catching or surpassing them in ratings.
> 
> What I think could be very interesting is if AEW will have any impact on WWE’s flagship program ratings. Even though they are not head-to-head, are there any fans who’ve been getting their fix from WWE because it’s been their only option now going to start drifting away because there’s a better alternative? That’s going to be a longer-term metric to follow, but will be much more telling than what AEW does against NXT.


The idea that AEW competing or beating WWE in the ratings means that WWE will die is just wrong thinking. They can both coexist, WCW didn't die because of that, nor did WWF when it was losing in the ratings, you can have both doing well and surviving, one does not have to fail for the other to succeed.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Strictly a US thing
> 
> And only a TV and DVR thing - so, online views on the TNT app or whatever does not count


Not true, it counts, even if someone in a Nielson household is watching an illegal stream it would count (as long as its a US network stream), it's not measured from set-top box data, is measured by devices picking up an embedded code that Nielson measured networks put into their broadcasts. So it doesn't matter how you watch, if you are a Nielson family its accounted for if you watch sling, youtubeTV, Hulu live, TNT app or cable as long as it contains that digital signature. Actually, this is how they get some Netflix data even though netflix is not a client, they pick up when people are watching old shows like Sniefiled and friends because they still have the embedded codes in the program.


----------



## rbl85

roadkill_ said:


> How are upcoming ticket sales for Dynamite over the next month?


Next week : the arena is set for 6343 seats and 943 are left (99.5 are on StubHub and are pretty expensive so too soon to buy those)

2 week : More than 9000 seats and 2064 are left (the seats are the same on ticketmaster and StubHub)

3 week : more than 10 000 seats and +/- 2129 left

4 Week : +/- 10 000 seats and 800 are left on StubHub (impossible to know how much are left on Ticketmaster)


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> Riho vs nyla doubled their young female audience viewership.


Where did you see that ?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> Next week : the arena is set for 6343 seats and 943 are left (99.5 are on StubHub and are pretty expensive so too soon to buy those)
> 
> 2 week : More than 9000 seats and 2064 are left (the seats are the same on ticketmaster and StubHub)
> 
> 3 week : more than 10 000 seats and +/- 2129 left
> 
> 4 Week : +/- 10 000 seats and 800 are left on StubHub (impossible to know how much are left on Ticketmaster)


So the arenas are going to look full and aesthetically pleasing on TV, that's really what matters.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Next week : the arena is set for 6343 seats and 943 are left (99.5 are on StubHub and are pretty expensive so too soon to buy those)
> 
> 2 week : More than 9000 seats and 2064 are left (the seats are the same on ticketmaster and StubHub)
> 
> 3 week : more than 10 000 seats and +/- 2129 left
> 
> 4 Week : +/- 10 000 seats and 800 are left on StubHub (impossible to know how much are left on Ticketmaster)


I think they will have comparable crowds to WWE, 5k per show is what WWE averages for all shows. The later shows have also started only selling the camera side tickets first which is smart, will make it look better on tv even if there are empty sections like WWE does. 

Would be smart if they papered the house later this year as a promotional tool, turn non-fans into fans with a free show, watching live is a different experience and can get people who never would have checked it out on tv into the whole idea. Something I am surprised WWE has not started doing more of, especially with kids. The number of tickets they sell really is not important to WWE anymore, they could literally give them all away and still make more money on each raw than ever before because of the massive deals they struck. And before people say that's dumb, thats what TV shows with a live audience do, and WWE really is now just a TV show with a live audience.


----------



## the44boz

Chan Hung said:


> They wanted Dean Ambrose
> He left


They only wanted to keep so he wouldn't sign with AEW not because they had big plans for him.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

FYI Smackdown's numbers are going to take a hit because Fox removed their channels from Dish and Sling. I have Sling and was going to actually watch it for the first time in forever but since I can't, I will probably keep skipping it like Raw.


----------



## Illogical

Jonhern said:


> The idea that AEW competing or beating WWE in the ratings means that WWE will die is just wrong thinking. They can both coexist, WCW didn't die because of that, nor did WWF when it was losing in the ratings, you can have both doing well and surviving, one does not have to fail for the other to succeed.


So much truth there. People don't realize that the "war" isn't a war to put the other out of business. It's a war for the fans attention.


----------



## reyfan

Chan Hung said:


> They wanted Dean Ambrose
> He left


Only to do 1000 shield reunions, he was always looked at as a supporting character, time will tell if he's more than that


----------



## Jonhern

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> FYI Smackdown's numbers are going to take a hit because Fox removed their channels from Dish and Sling. I have Sling and was going to actually watch it for the first time in forever but since I can't, I will probably keep skipping it like Raw.


and sling and dish are actually data Nielson uses to supplement their sample. That with Nielson households that have dish not being able to watch will likely bring it down some.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Jonhern said:


> and sling and dish are actually data Nielson uses to supplement their sample. That with Nielson households that have dish not being able to watch will likely bring it down some.


Fox is on a basic tv channel. You don't need dish or cable to watch it. just a tv and some rabbit ears. Have people forgotten this?


----------



## TheLooseCanon

the44boz said:


> The only thing they took from WWE were the wrestlers they didn't want.


It's why WWE are trying to sign jobber tag teams to 5 year deals. WWE scared.


----------



## V-Trigger

Illogical said:


> So much truth there. People don't realize that the "war" isn't a war to put the other out of business. It's a war for the fans attention.


What? Vince goal with AEW is to kill their interest and cut their legs before their walk.


----------



## Bosnian21

Jonhern said:


> The idea that AEW competing or beating WWE in the ratings means that WWE will die is just wrong thinking. They can both coexist, WCW didn't die because of that, nor did WWF when it was losing in the ratings, you can have both doing well and surviving, one does not have to fail for the other to succeed.


100% this.


----------



## Jonhern

ripcitydisciple said:


> Fox is on a basic tv channel. You don't need dish or cable to watch it. just a tv and some rabbit ears. Have people forgotten this?


People with cable generally do not have an antenna so they would not be able to watch.


----------



## llj

If the WWE ever dies, it won't be because AEW beat them but rather WWE implodes because years of bad creative and its contempt for its viewing audience.

WWE screwed WWE


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Jonhern said:


> People with cable generally do not have an antenna so they would not be able to watch.


So then it would become how important is it for them to watch their shows(in this case Smackdown), that it is enough to spend $20 ish to buy an antenna.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

llj said:


> If the WWE ever dies, it won't be because AEW beat them but rather WWE implodes because years of bad creative and its contempt for its viewing audience.
> 
> WWE screwed WWE


and this is why wow failed.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Jonhern said:


> The idea that AEW competing or beating WWE in the ratings means that WWE will die is just wrong thinking. They can both coexist, WCW didn't die because of that, nor did WWF when it was losing in the ratings, you can have both doing well and surviving, one does not have to fail for the other to succeed.


I agree with you, and that's not what I'm trying to say. I just think it's going to take a combination of AEW increasing viewers _and_ WWE losing significantly more for AEW to overtake them in the ratings. And that's not even considering that WWE has 5 hours of weekly programming (or does NXT count for 7 now?) vs AEW's 2. There's a lot of ways to measure and spin it before there's a consensus that AEW has overtaken WWE. 

WWE has already lost a ton in ratings over the years, but seem to have mostly leveled off in recent months. I think it's going to take another significant drop, which I also think would be a sign of the wheels coming off the wagon. That's not saying WWE has to die in order to be beaten, that's just my suggesting that it's a strong sign that's the direction they're headed if AEW does start beating them. And this isn't the 90's any more; there's a whole bunch of different factors in play today, so whatever happened with WCW is irrelevant, just in case anybody wants to slip that comparison into the conversation. If WWE does sink that low this time around, it will have been many, many years in the making, which will make it that much harder for them to dig themselves out, so the future for them will be pretty bleak. I could be wrong, but I don't think WWE has it in them to recover like they've done in the past. 

All that being said, beating WWE in the ratings should not be AEW's objective (and I don't think it is at this point), as much fun as it is speculating about the possibility. It would be a nice icing on the cake, but AEW first needs to solidify their brand image and build a loyal fan base, keep producing a fun and entertaining show for wrestling fans, and grow from there as far as the market will allow. They're off to a better start than anyone predicted, which is very encouraging for them and their fans.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just listened to Busted open radio - and Mark Henry was backstage at NXT

He said they had AEW on and was watching - which I found very interesting

When Tony was asked he said they weren’t watching NXT - too involved with their own show

Action and reactionary is going to be the thing that separates these two brands


----------



## Jonhern

optikk sucks said:


> and this is why wow failed.


Wcw died because tnt cancelled them before the sale was done. If they were cancelled a year later they could very much still be around today like impact. But when they cancelled them the deal couldn't get done and vince was able to buy it for pennies.


----------



## imthegame19

the44boz said:


> They only wanted to keep so he wouldn't sign with AEW not because they had big plans for him.


Wrong.....You realize he was going to face Reigns at Mania before he got cancer? You realize he beat current Universal champion clean a month before he gave his notice? Which was weeks before AEW was even announced. They wanted Ambrose back just as much as anyone they resigned if not more. You are just being a fanboy. Fact is Moxley only one who was unhappy enough to turn down big money.


----------



## imthegame19

reyfan said:


> Only to do 1000 shield reunions, he was always looked at as a supporting character, time will tell if he's more than that


As singles without Shield he was WWE champion and 2 time IC champion. Shield reunions were part of it. But he was also major upper card asset to the company. He will be way bigger star in AEW just give it six months...


----------



## the44boz

imthegame19 said:


> Wrong.....You realize he was going to face Reigns at Mania before he got cancer? You realize he beat current Universal champion clean a month before he gave his notice? Which was weeks before AEW was even announced. They wanted Ambrose back just as much as anyone they resigned if not more. You are just being a fanboy. Fact is Moxley only one who was unhappy enough to turn down big money.


if you've read most of my posts you'd see i'm the furthest thing from a fanboy


----------



## imthegame19

the44boz said:


> if you've read most of my posts you'd see i'm the furthest thing from a fanboy


I dunno what your other posts are. But WWE badly wanted to resign Ambrose. They even gave him a great send off hoping he just needed a break and would come back after taking time off. Saying stuff like WWE resigned everyone they wanted. It comes off as pro WWE. Especially say they only wanted Ambrose back because of AEW. The guy is a grand slam champ, main eventer and Shield member. 


Ambrose/Moxley was high priority just like AJ and Braun where. Or even Kevin Owens a year ago. Unlike others Ambrose wouldn't even negotiate or talk money. Because he had no interest in dealing with WWE creative system any longer. Even if there was no AEW he would have left and done Indies and New Japan rather then stay.


----------



## InexorableJourney

LOL, AEW beat FOX.


----------



## rbl85

InexorableJourney said:


> LOL, AEW beat FOX.


What the hell are you talking about ?


----------



## InexorableJourney

rbl85 said:


> What the hell are you talking about ?


FX came third




JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


>


----------



## reyfan

imthegame19 said:


> As singles without Shield he was WWE champion and 2 time IC champion. Shield reunions were part of it. But he was also major upper card asset to the company. He will be way bigger star in AEW just give it six months...


Yes and when they gave him the ball he became lazy so they dropped him down to a mid carder, he would have never gotten to main event status again there.


----------



## imthegame19

reyfan said:


> Yes and when they gave him the ball he became lazy so they dropped him down to a mid carder, he would have never gotten to main event status again there.


You realize he was set to face Reigns for the title at Mania. Before Reigns got cancer? I dunno where you come up with this stuff. Sounds like your opinions and goes against actual facts.


His feud over title ended with AJ December 2016. After being champion or title picture for 6 months. He feuded with Miz/Baron Corbin over IC title until June.


Then he and Seth made up and tagged until December and did Shield stuff. That is when he got hurt and didn't return to week of Summerslam in August. Which he did Shield stuff and feud with Rollins until he have his notice in January.


You act like he was wrestling singles mid card IC stuff for years. He did it for like 6 months and then did stuff with Seth and Shield. He was in IC mid card stuff in 2017 as long as Seth was in 2018. If Seth got this monster push all of the sudden. It's very possible Ambrose could have gotten another one too. Especially when they had Universal title plans for Ambrose at Mania last year at one point.


----------



## V-Trigger

reyfan said:


> Yes and when they gave him the ball he became lazy so they dropped him down to a mid carder, he would have never gotten to main event status again there.


lol. More like they almost killed his love for wrestling. Take a look as his run in the G1 and AEW. He's a different person.


----------



## Mox Girl

Oh my god lol, even in AEW Mox can't get away from the "he's lazy" bullshit 



reyfan said:


> Yes and when they gave him the ball he became lazy so they dropped him down to a mid carder, he would have never gotten to main event status again there.


Apparently The Shield doesn't count as being main event now, Mox's last WWE PPV match was a main event, ha.


----------



## reyfan

Mox Girl said:


> Oh my god lol, even in AEW Mox can't get away from the "he's lazy" bullshit
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently The Shield doesn't count as being main event now, Mox's last WWE PPV match was a main event, ha.


To try and get him to re-sign, the same way when a few tag teams have been unhappy they throw the tag-titles at them and they re-sign.


----------



## reyfan

V-Trigger said:


> lol. More like they almost killed his love for wrestling. Take a look as his run in the G1 and AEW. He's a different person.


He said he was over being "the goofy" character, yet his facial expressions remain the same, he'll probably need more than 6 months though to adapt a new character to be fair


----------



## Mox Girl

reyfan said:


> To try and get him to re-sign, the same way when a few tag teams have been unhappy they throw the tag-titles at them and they re-sign.


Not the same thing. Mox even said that he didn't even look at the contract they gave him, so I doubt a few main events with The Shield would convince him. WWE knew he was gone after his contract was up so they squeezed the last dollars out of The Shield that they could. But it still doesn't change the fact he was main eventing, something you said he didn't do after his title run :lol


----------



## reyfan

Mox Girl said:


> Not the same thing. Mox even said that he didn't even look at the contract they gave him, so I doubt a few main events with The Shield would convince him. WWE knew he was gone after his contract was up so they squeezed the last dollars out of The Shield that they could. But it still doesn't change the fact he was main eventing, something you said he didn't do after his title run :lol


Do tag matches count? Also not sure a network special PPV really counts, he didn't even get a wrestlemania match on his way out and was jobbed out to Drew McIntyre.


----------



## Cult03

reyfan said:


> He said he was over being "the goofy" character, yet his facial expressions remain the same, he'll probably need more than 6 months though to adapt a new character to be fair


Did you watch much of him before WWE? He has always been a goofy, Joker ripoff who gets over by putting himself through dangerous matches. Speaking of putting himself through things, how about that table spot where Omega didn't even touch it?


----------



## reyfan

Cult03 said:


> Did you watch much of him before WWE? *He has always been a goofy*, Joker ripoff who gets over by putting himself through dangerous matches. Speaking of putting himself through things, how about that table spot where Omega didn't even touch it?


Yet in his interview he said he didn't like WWE treating him that way, his words exactly.


----------



## rexmundi

Mox is big time and that should be abundantly clear to everyone.


----------



## Cult03

reyfan said:


> Yet in his interview he said he didn't like WWE treating him that way, his words exactly.


Yet in his career he was always treated that way, well before he signed with the WWE.


----------



## reyfan

Cult03 said:


> Yet in his career he was always treated that way, well before he signed with the WWE.


Tell him that, he is the only one that can't see it, it's almost like in his head he sees himself as the next Stone Cold when in reality his facial expressions were borderline Eugene.


----------



## imthegame19

reyfan said:


> Tell him that, he is the only one that can't see it, it's almost like in his head he sees himself as the next Stone Cold when in reality his facial expressions were borderline Eugene.


In reality this is just your opinion and it's a bad one. If there was any truth to this opinion Moxley wouldn't have the fan base he has. I'm sorry but this is a borderline Eugene opinion here. Even though you think it looks stupid. Others think he looks cool and cocky. People clearly love his facial expressions. His attack on Omega was one of the hottest thing on the show Wednesday.


----------



## imthegame19

Cult03 said:


> Did you watch much of him before WWE? He has always been a goofy, Joker ripoff who gets over by putting himself through dangerous matches. Speaking of putting himself through things, how about that table spot where Omega didn't even touch it?


He's way different then he was in indies. Heck he hasn't been had a dangerous match really since leaving WWE. Even his hardcore match was Janela was pretty safe. Nobody bladed and Moxley didn't take any big pumps. Few thumb tacts is nothing.


Plus there's difference from what he didn't in Indies as a young wrestler trying to get noticed. Compared to the crap WWE made him do. With him dressed up as the Mountie, get shots in the ass at doctors office and the list can go on for days. Moxley is having amazing run since leaving WWE. It's only gonna grow now with him on tv again every week. But I guess everyone has their haters.


----------



## V-Trigger

reyfan said:


> He said he was over being "the goofy" character, yet his facial expressions remain the same, he'll probably need more than 6 months though to adapt a new character to be fair


Does this look goofy to you?


----------



## Intimidator3

V-Trigger said:


> Does this look goofy to you?


When that happened, the way the camera captured it live, that was a really nice shot. The way Omega was alone in the shot at first, rising up, then Mox coming into view behind him, then Omega selling it, just really well done.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaFuq?

People here seriously questioning Mox’s star power right now in this thread?

That deserves a Swaggie


----------



## Donnie

*AEW ratings notes from WOR*



> •Teenage viewership increased through the show and by the end was higher than what WWE does outside of special shows
> 
> 
> •Over 35 year old viewership dropped through the show
> 
> 
> •The segment that lost the most viewers was PAC vs Hangman
> 
> 
> •NXT was down with the older viewers because of baseball, it wasn't down because of AEW
> 
> 
> •AEW clearly works with teenagers far better than WWE, doesn't necessarily work with older viewers


Getting teenagers is a huge deal, very happy about this. Poor PAC :mj2 He's going to kill someone for this.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

so its cultivating new fans while making old shitters seethe.

Perfect. :tommy

Also belongs in the ratings thread


----------



## imthegame19

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

Hopefully some older viewers who were watching baseball will give AEW a shot next week.


----------



## imthegame19

V-Trigger said:


> Does this look goofy to you?


Awesome photo. It shows haters are talking out of there butt about Moxley.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Meltzer's breakdown of the ratings are so interesting, he went over it on WOR.

So AEW consistently lost viewers above the age of 35 as the show was airing, however, under 35, people stuck around or grew in viewers. That tells you the show isn't clicking with older viewers, but younger viewers, it's doing really well.


----------



## patpat

Anyone saying Dave is on a payroll after he actually was negative towards their good numbers is mad. 
Anyway good numbers veryyyy young viewership good thing that it's not doing very great with the older viewers. They beat mxt in all categories except +50 viewers 
I think the 35 are the smarkier audience 
Sad that he didn't elaborate much on riho drawing this well! Maybe because she proved him dead wrong:lol


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



imthegame19 said:


> Hopefully some older viewers who were watching baseball will give AEW a shot next week.


I could give a fuck about baseball. Or NXT. I’ll be watching AEW every week. Yes, I’m sure I’m what you’d consider an older viewer.  Obviously I never grew up.


----------



## cai1981

imthegame19 said:


> Hopefully some older viewers who were watching baseball will give AEW a shot next week.


Gotta wait until November for that. October is playoff baseball just about everyday....NBA starts soon and they usually have a double header on Wednesdays on ESPN so they (and NXT) have their work cut out for them.


----------



## TAC41

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

The part you didn’t post was that AEW’s highest ratings were the first half hour and then steadily declined throughout the night while NXT started off slow and steadily gained through the night. 

It’s obvious the large viewership was strictly people curious about a new show but tuned out within the first half hour and never went back. 

Next week will be a ratings drop disaster. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



TAC41 said:


> The part you didn’t post was that AEW’s highest ratings were the first half hour and then steadily declined throughout the night while NXT started off slow and steadily gained through the night.
> 
> It’s obvious the large viewership was strictly people curious about a new show but tuned out within the first half hour and never went back.
> 
> Next week will be a ratings drop disaster.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You also forgot the part of AEW main event killing NXT main event.

Stay seething though.


----------



## AEWMoxley

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



> The segment that lost the most viewers was PAC vs Hangman


This can't be. I was told PAC was a big star and that his presence in AEW would have a huge positive impact because he's such a "great" wrestler.

lol

PAC is the Seth Rollins of AEW. Hopefully they are smart enough to never put the title on this geek.


----------



## michael_3165

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

I assume the over 35s drop could also be down to baseball as well? 
Teenage viewership is a great starting position - will spend money and be fans into their 20s. I suspect some of WWE's problems relate to the fact they pandered to the child audience for years and they have all outgrown it and less youngsters have replaced them.
PAC losing viewers isn't surprising he is dull as dishwater and Page really needs to step it up to be seen in the same bracket as Rhodes, Omega, Bucks etc.


----------



## michael_3165

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



AEWMoxley said:


> This can't be. I was told PAC was a big star and that his presence in AEW would have a huge positive impact because he's such a "great" wrestler.
> 
> lol
> 
> PAC is the Seth Rollins of AEW. Hopefully they are smart enough to never put the title on this geek.


I find him tediously dull. He is the Randy Orton of AEW for me. Someone that can have a good match but is so bland that nobody bothers sticking around to see it.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

The thing with PAC is that he works like the old school heels. He slows things down to push his heel persona. People don't like that style these days but the old school guys praise it. It's a 50/50 thing.


----------



## The XL 2

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

NXT is putting the more spotty and less psychology based work and they're the ones drawing the older guys and AEW is getting younger viewers with a more classical, psychology and sports oriented based presentation. Very interesting, you'd think it would be the other way around if anything. The only thing I can think is WWE loyalists who grew up with WWE are going to ride and die with them no matter what.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Pretty interesting breakdown of the rating. AEW started with massive viewership and big lead other NXT. Obviously curious people checking it out. However there was a steady decline during the show. Still well ahead of NXT but chances of maintaining 1.4m next week is slim as the show ended with less than that.


----------



## V-Trigger

The over 35 demo declined but their younger audience during the main event killed NXT main event.


----------



## roadkill_

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Meltzer's breakdown of the ratings are so interesting, he went over it on WOR.
> 
> So AEW consistently lost viewers above the age of 35 as the show was airing, however, under 35, people stuck around or grew in viewers. That tells you the show isn't clicking with older viewers, but younger viewers, it's doing really well.


It tells us nothing. Remember, TNT has given them a wide birth - 36 months. One show doesn't even amount to a microcosm.


----------



## patpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> imthegame19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully some older viewers who were watching baseball will give AEW a shot next week.
> 
> 
> 
> I could give a fuck about baseball. Or NXT. I’ll be watching AEW every week. Yes, I’m sure I’m what you’d consider an older viewer. <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" /> Obviously I never grew up.
Click to expand...

 omg you know everytime posters here starts bad mouthing the older audience I think about you and I am like shut up guys <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" /> 

Actuay I think unlike most people it's not a matter of age but style, there is just a certain style of wrestling that appeals to people who like hips and cool things. My dad is like in his 60s and he is one of the biggest young bucks fan, I think it's more about taste than age. 



And some people here needs to start paying respect to the seniors, enough with the "fuck old fuckers" shit <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />


----------



## patpat

TAC41 said:


> The part you didn’t post was that AEW’s highest ratings were the first half hour and then steadily declined throughout the night while NXT started off slow and steadily gained through the night.
> 
> It’s obvious the large viewership was strictly people curious about a new show but tuned out within the first half hour and never went back.
> 
> Next week will be a ratings drop disaster.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 yes is that why there were 1 millions 3 people watching hour 2? Is that why in the 2nd hour there was a 60k bump in the ratings? Is that why the immediate replay got around 600k viewers? 
You people were the same geeks that came here telling everyone that this show wouldnt do any numbers blablabla with your shitty "expertise" see you next week when you are wrong again.


I also remember the geeks here saying the joshi would kill the ratings.
Meltzer in his report also didnt mention that aew killed nxt in every single demo in both hours(except for the +50 where nxt won by a very thin margin). He actually was very nice to nxt ( even tho the loss of viewers for aew didnt correlate with a significant bump for nxt making it more evident that its 2 separate audience) 
Meltzer also mentions that aew did bad in the 50+ older demo but forget to say that it's the least interesting demo and no one gives a fuck about it. 

Keep spinning the numbers like all of you have done since the beginning to fir your narrative, and keep being wrong.

Meltzer also very well took care of not comparing aew's strongest points to nxt to avoid making it feels like the slaughter it was , because the war narrative that he is been pushing would just fall appart ( and I am a huge meltzer guy, dude is legit) just like he barely spent anytime discussing riho literally doubling their female teenager audience because he spent his time saying she isnt marketable blablablabla so when blatantly proven wrong he will just ignore it or mention it but wont spend much time on it.


----------



## Lorromire

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



michael_3165 said:


> I find him tediously dull. He is the Randy Orton of AEW for me. Someone that can have a good match but is so bland that nobody bothers sticking around to see it.


You've obviously never seen PAC/Neville do character work if you find him to be bland. The dude oozes charisma on the mic and in his body language.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

I tuned out during the Pac/Page match but not because of Pac, I think Page is terrible.


----------



## yeahright2

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



V-Trigger said:


> The thing with PAC is that he works like the old school heels. He slows things down to push his heel persona. People don't like that style these days but the old school guys praise it. It's a 50/50 thing.


That doesn´t fit with his Monicker "The man that gravity forgot". Either he drops that, or give up the old school style. He can´t both have a cake AND eat it.


----------



## patpat

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> I tuned out during the Pac/Page match but not because of Pac, I think Page is terrible.


it's funny that some automatically attribute it to pac 
but I Am a page guy, think he has a great future, but it is blatantly obvious he lacks something. worst thing is , he is a good promo actually, very good. but he just lack some edge, he is too "clean". not rough enough 

he is still young tho, he could change with time, also think he should totally exclude any high fly move from his repertoire, it doesn't match the gimmick.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jonhern said:


> optikk sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> and this is why wow failed.
> 
> 
> 
> Wcw died because tnt cancelled them before the sale was done. If they were cancelled a year later they could very much still be around today like impact. But when they cancelled them the deal couldn't get done and vince was able to buy it for pennies.
Click to expand...

wcw died because they put a shit product on; tnt got disinterested; in came wwe.


----------



## virus21

V-Trigger said:


> The over 35 demo declined but their younger audience during the main event killed NXT main event.


Of course. That demo is used to WWE's product for so long, anything else is not going to peak their interest unless its a carbon copy.


----------



## IBWMD

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

Honestly the next few weeks will be the big test for both shows.

NXT basically put on a mini takeover this week and they can't do that every week.
AEW will have gotten a boost from it being their first show, but they should be fully capable of putting on shows of that quality or better every week (though granted they could decline in quality).

So the next few weeks should be the real barometer of where we're at.


----------



## AEWMoxley

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

Page sucks too, but this was the first time he's ever been exposed to a large audience. He wasn't expect to draw. PAC spent years in WWE. No one gave a shit about him then, and no one gives a shit about him now. His poor imitation of a Game of Thrones side character isn't going to get over. He's boring.

As far as getting the older audience to watch, make a play for some big name legend to make an appearance on the show. They don't need to bury any of the younger talent - just have them appear on the show to draw some of the 35+ crowd, and hopefully put on a good show to make them stick around.


----------



## Taroostyles

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

Its only 1 weeks worth of data, you need more to determine any kind of real patterns. 

Like for example before this show I would have expected the 35+ number to be better as their the ones who are assumed to be the lapsed fans. I would have thought the younger audience would flock to wwe as it's all they've ever known mostly.


----------



## Le Duff Fluffer

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

Only have saw the first match on the old dvr but watching the rest today. Heard it was great.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Dynamite went off the air at 9:58 PM, and they had nearly the exact same rating at 9:58 that they did at 8:00 PM when the show started. I don't know where this narrative that they ended with significantly less is coming from. That minute by minute chart shows that they had a strong ending, so given that, combined with the rave reviews the show got, they very well could maintain or increase their viewership.

Moxley and Jericho did their job in the main event segment and drew well.


----------



## patpat

virus21 said:


> V-Trigger said:
> 
> 
> 
> The over 35 demo declined but their younger audience during the main event killed NXT main event.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. That demo is used to WWE's product for so long, anything else is not going to peak their interest unless its a carbon copy.
Click to expand...

 it's just one show so we cant extrapolate much, but maybe it's because younger people are more receptive? 
For example I can clearly see a lot saying fuck to riho vs nyla because of riho and the fact that she doesnt look like your average woman wrestler in 2019( badass-like leather jacket , becky lynch copy, or attractive). Howver teenage girls loved it and they increased in a very significant way. ( I mean riho basically looks like a cute barbie doll) 
It's interesting to see , seriously is they can keep a very young audience and grow it stronger and stronger it's good for them, the younger are the one to create the buzz and the one who determine what is cool or not. So.....


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

patpat said:


> it's just one show so we cant extrapolate much, but maybe it's because younger people are more receptive?
> For example I can clearly see a lot saying fuck to riho vs nyla because of riho and the fact that she doesnt look like your average woman wrestler in 2019( badass-like leather jacket , becky lynch copy, or attractive). Howver teenage girls loved it and they increased in a very significant way. ( I mean riho basically looks like a cute barbie doll)
> It's interesting to see , seriously is they can keep a very young audience and grow it stronger and stronger it's good for them, the younger are the one to create the buzz and the one who determine what is cool or not. So.....


Also interesting because ‘younger’ audience isn’t the first group I’d associate with the lapsed fans they said they’re going after. Doesn’t matter anyway — what matters is AEW keeping and growing it’s fanbase going forward, regardless of the demographic makeup. Keeping TNT happy enough to keep them on the air every week is all _I_ care about. They don’t have to beat WWE to do that. Hell, they don’t even have to beat NXT, as long as their own numbers are good enough.


----------



## patpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> it's just one show so we cant extrapolate much, but maybe it's because younger people are more receptive?
> For example I can clearly see a lot saying fuck to riho vs nyla because of riho and the fact that she doesnt look like your average woman wrestler in 2019( badass-like leather jacket , becky lynch copy, or attractive). Howver teenage girls loved it and they increased in a very significant way. ( I mean riho basically looks like a cute barbie doll)
> It's interesting to see , seriously is they can keep a very young audience and grow it stronger and stronger it's good for them, the younger are the one to create the buzz and the one who determine what is cool or not. So.....
> 
> 
> 
> Also interesting because ‘younger’ audience isn’t the first group I’d associate with the lapsed fans they said they’re going after. Doesn’t matter anyway — what matters is AEW keeping and growing it’s fanbase going forward, regardless of the demographic makeup. Keeping TNT happy enough to keep them on the air every week is all _I_ care about. They don’t have to beat WWE to do that. Hell, they don’t even have to beat NXT, as long as their own numbers are good enough.
Click to expand...

 exactly , I think tnt were also very humble in their expectations like saying 400k would be fine. They really gave aew a chance to grow and came with good intent. Well fuck they got the positive payback. 
Now they will push aew even more. 
It's interesting because I think younger fans also like the old school style just as much as older people. It's cool that's old a good mix of old school and modern stuff is a great way to go. 

Maybe by trying to get the lapsed fans they involuntarily created their own fanbase? The time will tell very exciting nonetheless


----------



## Intimidator3

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

I'm not too surprised about the Hangman/Pac match, def the slowest match of the night. I wouldn't call it a bad match, there's just a difference between a kinda slow psychological match, and a match with just too much downtime.

I'm split on Pac, I liked his match with Omega but didn't love this one. Playing heel and getting heat with the crowd is great, but that shit has to be done the right way. You can't do it too much or too close together, he did both. It's all about timing. But that's something he can easily fix. Hope he does because he's pretty good in the ring.

I like Hangman but he might be one of those cats that it all depends on who he's in the ring with. I'm betting he looks good in the next match with Jericho and Dustin and Sammy. I'm a fan of the guy and would like to see him take that next step.


----------



## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



AEWMoxley said:


> This can't be. I was told PAC was a big star and that his presence in AEW would have a huge positive impact because he's such a "great" wrestler.
> 
> lol
> 
> PAC is the Seth Rollins of AEW. Hopefully they are smart enough to never put the title on this geek.


No. Hangman is the Rollins.


----------



## Mox Girl

Do we have any idea on how the show did on FITE? How many people have bought AEW Plus subs, I wonder?


----------



## rbl85

Mox Girl said:


> Do we have any idea on how the show did on FITE? How many people have bought AEW Plus subs, I wonder?


FiteTV never give their numbers.


----------



## Mox Girl

rbl85 said:


> FiteTV never give their numbers.


Aw, that sucks. Would have been cool to see how they did internationally.


----------



## AEW_19

Mox Girl said:


> Aw, that sucks. Would have been cool to see how they did internationally.


I'm pretty sure they said over 80 countries were watching through Fite TV but it would be cool to find out viewing figures.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*

Hangman is way better than Rollins though.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: AEW ratings notes from WOR*



RainmakerV2 said:


> No. Hangman is the Rollins.


Yet to see Hangman act like this.


----------



## The Wood

The Inbred Goatman said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they were. Plenty of people have been predicting an absolute slaughter for AEW the first week. You've probably just got them on ignore because they don't fellate the company the entire time.
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao, I don't ignore anyone, I don't know how too. I was looking at social media all day, and MANY people had NXT beating AEW by a considerable margin, just look at reddits rating prediction thread, which is a way bigger sample size than the few people on here that are loud.
> 
> Get a clue dude, and stop being pretentious as fuck.
Click to expand...

You can’t call someone pretentious and then drop Reddit. 

Plenty of people predicted AEW would beat NXT. Basically everyone here was on that frequency. It’s not really debatable.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah I saw lots of folks who thought AEW would not only beat NXT but crush them easily, which is what happened. 

It's so funny I see all these WWE apologists coming into this section commenting and making threads but then complain about AEW fans. The hypocrisy is out of control already.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah I saw lots of folks who thought AEW would not only beat NXT but crush them easily, which is what happened.
> 
> It's so funny I see all these WWE apologists coming into this section commenting and making threads but then complain about AEW fans. The hypocrisy is out of control already.


They've been doing it since January. 

Every threshold that AEW has met, the goalposts are always moved to something different. It went from "they haven't even done a show yet" to "they haven't sold out a PPV yet" to "they haven't got any big stars yet" to "they haven't debuted on TNT yet" to "they haven't drawn any ratings yet" to now "we have to at least wait until a couple of months".

WWE drones haven't had a true alternative on a national scale that can challenge them in legitimate ways since the years of WCW (TNA was close). Not entirely their fault but WWE has conditioned them to think their way of wrestling is the only one that matters (monopolization) and anything else can't compete and is a detriment to them and "sports entertainment".

This is par for the course. It's the same reason why those folks love to concern troll on here and want AEW to simply become the fourth brand of WWE instead of being their own thing. It's going to continue getting worse from here from those folks. Just have to ignore them (they're a loud but small group) and not let them take away the fun and excitement many are rightfully having about AEW.


----------



## Taroostyles

Totally agree. They all said they couldn't beat NXT and that NXT had this much higher quality show, then when AEW smoked them they all said "Well it's only NXT, come see me when they beat Raw or SD" 

Then when they do that they're gonna say "Come see me when they beat the this is your life Rock segment." 

They just dont wanna accept that the things they've been told to believe for years are all lies and manipulation.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It is like Cody says

‘You have to understand, if 3 people post 300 times.... it’s still only 3 people’

Since I’ve gone on an ignore spree, this board has become quite nice


----------



## DOTL

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah I saw lots of folks who thought AEW would not only beat NXT but crush them easily, which is what happened.
> 
> It's so funny I see all these WWE apologists coming into this section commenting and making threads but then complain about AEW fans. The hypocrisy is out of control already.


WWE apologists are almost a comical concept. The only reason they can't see how bad their product has been is because it was the only game in town.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just as an aside - Cody is taking feedback on the show on his twitter - so, feel free to go give him some thoughts

It’s nice to see as a rule that they are willing to hear what their fans have to say directly


----------



## Taroostyles

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Just as an aside - Cody is taking feedback on the show on his twitter - so, feel free to go give him some thoughts
> 
> It’s nice to see as a rule that they are willing to hear what their fans have to say directly


It's the exact reason why they are succeeding and building a good name vs WWE right now. 

AEW not only wants fans to enjoy the product, they want them to tell them where they can do better. WWE wants to give you their idea of what's entertaining and if you challenge it, they just say you've never been in the business. 

Completely opposite philosophies.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Taroostyles said:


> It's the exact reason why they are succeeding and building a good name vs WWE right now.
> 
> AEW not only wants fans to enjoy the product, they want them to tell them where they can do better. WWE wants to give you their idea of what's entertaining and if you challenge it, they just say you've never been in the business.
> 
> Completely opposite philosophies.


WWE is like those moms who say ‘you don’t understand, you’ve never had a child!’

And I’m like ‘I know ma’am, but I don’t need a degree to see your little angel is being a horrible little cunt right now.’

....

Just me then?


----------



## The Wood

WINNING said:


> Taroostyles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I saw lots of folks who thought AEW would not only beat NXT but crush them easily, which is what happened.
> 
> It's so funny I see all these WWE apologists coming into this section commenting and making threads but then complain about AEW fans. The hypocrisy is out of control already.
> 
> 
> 
> They've been doing it since January.
> 
> Every threshold that AEW has met, the goalposts are always moved to something different. It went from "they haven't even done a show yet" to "they haven't sold out a PPV yet" to "they haven't got any big stars yet" to "they haven't debuted on TNT yet" to "they haven't drawn any ratings yet" to now "we have to at least wait until a couple of months".
> 
> WWE drones haven't had a true alternative on a national scale that can challenge them in legitimate ways since the years of WCW (TNA was close). Not entirely their fault but WWE has conditioned them to think their way of wrestling is the only one that matters (monopolization) and anything else can't compete and is a detriment to them and "sports entertainment".
> 
> This is par for the course. It's the same reason why those folks love to concern troll on here and want AEW to simply become the fourth brand of WWE instead of being their own thing. It's going to continue getting worse from here from those folks. Just have to ignore them (they're a loud but small group) and not let them take away the fun and excitement many are rightfully having about AEW.
Click to expand...

This is a hasty generalization. You can’t tar everyone with the same brush just because it’s convenient for the twisted narrative you have in your brain. I’m not sure if you believe it at this point or not, but believe it or not, most critics of AEW actually feel like it is *too similar to WWE.* Almost all the valid criticism is see on here, for example, is about them being too silly and sports entertainment-like. People want pro-wrestling back in prime time. This doesn’t fit your narrative. At all. 

And just because people say things you don’t like doesn’t mean they’re trolling. A lot of people understand that if AEW fucks up big, then Vince gets his monopoly. That’s genuine concern, pal. 

By the way, a 40% retention rate on PPV isn’t only a slight few. Just because only a few vocal critics actually brave the cult-like message boards (you have someone actually quoting Cody like he is a sage in here), doesn’t mean most people are liking it. 1.4 million is fine for TNT, but it’s pretty piss-poor for wrestling on basic cable, and it doesn’t mean that those 1.4 million adored the show and will definitely be back. Keep an eye on the trends, especially if they can’t keep it serious like this week was. 



Taroostyles said:


> Totally agree. They all said they couldn't beat NXT and that NXT had this much higher quality show, then when AEW smoked them they all said "Well it's only NXT, come see me when they beat Raw or SD"
> 
> Then when they do that they're gonna say "Come see me when they beat the this is your life Rock segment."
> 
> They just dont wanna accept that the things they've been told to believe for years are all lies and manipulation.


Do you actually believe this? Who are these people? Almost every post I saw had AEW initially beating NXT. There are ratings prediction threads with people guessing 1.8 million and higher. I was in that number. Who is it that said AEW wouldn’t win week one? I want names. Or are you just talking out your ass?

Ironically, the lies and manipulation in here are staggering.


----------



## CRCC

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Just as an aside - Cody is taking feedback on the show on his twitter - so, feel free to go give him some thoughts
> 
> It’s nice to see as a rule that they are willing to hear what their fans have to say directly


Wow. That's a great attitude.

I hope people are giving constructive criticism. It was a good show but it can be improved.


----------



## Death Rider

And like I said some people refuse to give credit no matter what. Time to lengthen the ignore list


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

CRCC said:


> Wow. That's a great attitude.
> 
> I hope people are giving constructive criticism. It was a good show but it can be improved.


Yep, very good comments - some good points made

There is consensus on a lot of things and Cody is also replying to some

Just great to see in general

2000+ comments so far


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180869543046070272


----------



## Death Rider

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yep, very good comments - some good points made
> 
> There is consensus on a lot of things and Cody is also replying to some
> 
> Just great to see in general
> 
> 2000+ comments so far
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180869543046070272


There we go. All the people who are AEW fans and are concerned about what they are doing, they can feed it directly to Cody and he will listen.


----------



## CRCC

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yep, very good comments - some good points made
> 
> There is consensus on a lot of things and Cody is also replying to some
> 
> Just great to see in general
> 
> 2000+ comments so far
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180869543046070272


Yes, definitely some good criticism: better explaining the rules of the matches, better music for the wrestlers, more skits and video packages, better promoting the next show, etc.

I agree with a lot of these.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

It’s hard NOT to feel part of this ‘movement’

Especially for some of us who have been there since the older BTE days

And I think they are leaning into that whole concept beautifully


----------



## Taroostyles

The Wood said:


> This is a hasty generalization. You can’t tar everyone with the same brush just because it’s convenient for the twisted narrative you have in your brain. I’m not sure if you believe it at this point or not, but believe it or not, most critics of AEW actually feel like it is *too similar to WWE.* Almost all the valid criticism is see on here, for example, is about them being too silly and sports entertainment-like. People want pro-wrestling back in prime time. This doesn’t fit your narrative. At all.
> 
> And just because people say things you don’t like doesn’t mean they’re trolling. A lot of people understand that if AEW fucks up big, then Vince gets his monopoly. That’s genuine concern, pal.
> 
> By the way, a 40% retention rate on PPV isn’t only a slight few. Just because only a few vocal critics actually brave the cult-like message boards (you have someone actually quoting Cody like he is a sage in here), doesn’t mean most people are liking it. 1.4 million is fine for TNT, but it’s pretty piss-poor for wrestling on basic cable, and it doesn’t mean that those 1.4 million adored the show and will definitely be back. Keep an eye on the trends, especially if they can’t keep it serious like this week was.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe this? Who are these people? Almost every post I saw had AEW initially beating NXT. There are ratings prediction threads with people guessing 1.8 million and higher. I was in that number. Who is it that said AEW wouldn’t win week one? I want names. Or are you just talking out your ass?
> 
> Ironically, the lies and manipulation in here are staggering.



I dont keep track of names of people on internet forums but between here and SC there were tons of people saying that AEW would fail and NXT would trounce them. You seem to think this is directly aimed at you for some reason.

Also, if you havent seen what I'm talking about apparently but some of those same people went from that right into "well they just beat NXT, it doesn't even matter."

But it sure mattered to them before we had the results. That's what we were talking about with moving the goal posts, AEW has been fighting it since day one with WWE fans trying to stop it before it gets started.


----------



## The Wood

Lol, y’all a bunch of marks. I’m sure Cody will take good ideas he can get from people, but it doesn’t take much to go onto social media and say “Tell us your thoughts.” WWE gathering feedback too. They don’t act on that, but they do it. When you have a bunch of differing opinions, you _can’t_ implement everything. And you _shouldn’t_ do everything the fans want, anyway. 

It’s a “good thing,” Cody’s doing, don’t get me wrong, but you’re naive if you don’t think this is largely just for appearances to keep the “fan service” gimmick going.

But hey, if he’s working ya, good for him.


----------



## Taroostyles

Calling people marks who disagree with you is a true sign of maturity


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a hasty generalization. You can’t tar everyone with the same brush just because it’s convenient for the twisted narrative you have in your brain. I’m not sure if you believe it at this point or not, but believe it or not, most critics of AEW actually feel like it is *too similar to WWE.* Almost all the valid criticism is see on here, for example, is about them being too silly and sports entertainment-like. People want pro-wrestling back in prime time. This doesn’t fit your narrative. At all.
> 
> And just because people say things you don’t like doesn’t mean they’re trolling. A lot of people understand that if AEW fucks up big, then Vince gets his monopoly. That’s genuine concern, pal.
> 
> By the way, a 40% retention rate on PPV isn’t only a slight few. Just because only a few vocal critics actually brave the cult-like message boards (you have someone actually quoting Cody like he is a sage in here), doesn’t mean most people are liking it. 1.4 million is fine for TNT, but it’s pretty piss-poor for wrestling on basic cable, and it doesn’t mean that those 1.4 million adored the show and will definitely be back. Keep an eye on the trends, especially if they can’t keep it serious like this week was.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you actually believe this? Who are these people? Almost every post I saw had AEW initially beating NXT. There are ratings prediction threads with people guessing 1.8 million and higher. I was in that number. Who is it that said AEW wouldn’t win week one? I want names. Or are you just talking out your ass?
> 
> Ironically, the lies and manipulation in here are staggering.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont keep track of names of people on internet forums but between here and SC there were tons of people saying that AEW would fail and NXT would trounce them. You seem to think this is directly aimed at you for some reason.
> 
> Also, if you havent seen what I'm talking about apparently but some of those same people went from that right into "well they just beat NXT, it doesn't even matter."
> 
> But it sure mattered to them before we had the results. That's what we were talking about with moving the goal posts, AEW has been fighting it since day one with WWE fans trying to stop it before it gets started.
Click to expand...

I’ve been heavily involved in the AEW discussion from very early on. I am challenging that there is a significant portion of people on here that have ever said that. I haven’t seen a significant number of people who want AEW to fail either. Where are these people trying to “stop it?” Who the fuck wants to stop a potential alternative to WWE? If these people exist, I don’t know why you’d entertain their opinions at all. They’re clearly not serious and it’s irresponsible and disingenuous to conflate their criticisms with the valid ones.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> Lol, y’all a bunch of marks. I’m sure Cody will take good ideas he can get from people, but it doesn’t take much to go onto social media and say “Tell us your thoughts.” WWE gathering feedback too. They don’t act on that, but they do it. When you have a bunch of differing opinions, you _can’t_ implement everything. And you _shouldn’t_ do everything the fans want, anyway.
> 
> It’s a “good thing,” Cody’s doing, don’t get me wrong, but you’re naive if you don’t think this is largely just for appearances to keep the “fan service” gimmick going.
> 
> But hey, if he’s working ya, good for him.


You seriously don't see how AEW doing this can be more effective and inclusive than WWE saying they do this? WWE claim to listen all the time. AEW have actually made good on doing so.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> Calling people marks who disagree with you is a true sign of maturity


I’m calling the people who buy into the authenticity of the presentation marks, because that’s literally what a mark is. It’s got nothing to do with disagreeing with me.


----------



## The Wood

Beatles123 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, y’all a bunch of marks. I’m sure Cody will take good ideas he can get from people, but it doesn’t take much to go onto social media and say “Tell us your thoughts.” WWE gathering feedback too. They don’t act on that, but they do it. When you have a bunch of differing opinions, you _can’t_ implement everything. And you _shouldn’t_ do everything the fans want, anyway.
> 
> It’s a “good thing,” Cody’s doing, don’t get me wrong, but you’re naive if you don’t think this is largely just for appearances to keep the “fan service” gimmick going.
> 
> But hey, if he’s working ya, good for him.
> 
> 
> 
> You seriously don't see how AEW doing this can be more effective and inclusive than WWE saying they do this? WWE claim to listen all the time. AEW have actually made good on doing so.
Click to expand...

I never said that. I actually said that very thing about WWE. Actually read what people say, Beatles. 

It’s only effective if they do it and it isn’t just a gimmick to make people feel included. I’m


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Oh here we go with The Wood and his/her bullshit again.


----------



## Death Rider

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Oh here we go with The Wood and his/her bullshit again.


The ignore feature is a blessing for some people. I don't think Wood is a troll btw but I do think she is disengious when she says she wants AEW to suceed yet every post is slagging off AEW and now also praising awful WWE decisions whilst insulting people who disagree.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Of course I’m a mark - i love ‘liking’ stuff - it’s good for the soul

I’m not being taking advantage of, or being dumb or blind - I am a willing consumer in this relationship

I wonder when this concept became an insult?

People want to seem ‘smart’ and ‘above it all’ - and go to great lengths to drive that narrative.

It just seems so exhausting

If I like something, I mark for it - if I don’t, I stop consuming

Ps> the ignore feature really needs to ignore ‘quoted’ posts as well


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> I never said that. I actually said that very thing about WWE. Actually read what people say, Beatles.
> 
> It’s only effective if they do it and it isn’t just a gimmick to make people feel included. I’m


I did. I'm sorry you don't like the fact that I don't like you acting like a holier-than-thou jerk about people actually liking the fact that we have reason to think Cody is being honest about wanting to listen. That ISN'T being a mark. Believing WWE listens would be a mark attitude.


----------



## The Wood

Death Rider said:


> The Raw Smackdown said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh here we go with The Wood and his/her bullshit again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ignore feature is a blessing for some people. I don't think Wood is a troll btw but I do think she is disengious when she says she wants AEW to suceed yet every post is slagging off AEW and now also praising awful WWE decisions whilst insulting people who disagree.
Click to expand...

Nope, not a troll. Thanks for acknowledging that. A lot of people find it easier to just passive aggressively post gifs and labelling my points “bullshit” without explaining why.

There’s a lot to criticize re: AEW, lol. I’ve been very consistent with the stuff I do like. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Of course I’m a mark - i love ‘liking’ stuff - it’s good for the soul
> 
> I’m not being taking advantage of, or being dumb or blind - I am a willing consumer in this relationship
> 
> I wonder when this concept became an insult?
> 
> People want to seem ‘smart’ and ‘above it all’ - and go to great lengths to drive that narrative.
> 
> It just seems so exhausting
> 
> If I like something, I mark for it - if I don’t, I stop consuming
> 
> Ps> the ignore feature really needs to ignore ‘quoted’ posts as well


I didn’t use it as an insult. I’m just saying you are marks if you buy into a professional wrestling company’s line. People are like “Ooh, Cody’s listening,” when what he’s doing is posting a feedback thread. It may not even be him, lol. 



Beatles123 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never said that. I actually said that very thing about WWE. Actually read what people say, Beatles.
> 
> It’s only effective if they do it and it isn’t just a gimmick to make people feel included. I’m
> 
> 
> 
> I did. I'm sorry you don't like the fact that I don't like you acting like a holier-than-thou jerk about people actually liking the fact that we have reason to think Cody is being honest about wanting to listen. That ISN'T being a mark. Believing WWE listens would be a mark attitude.
Click to expand...

This is pretty demonstrable of the hypocrisy some people point out. It’s a bit rich calling someone holier-than-thou. 

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you fall for fan service from either promotion at this stage, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Death Rider said:


> And like I said some people refuse to give credit no matter what. Time to lengthen the ignore list


Oh, of course. You don't even have to quote them to trigger a typical response from them. It's quite funny. I suggest not taking the bait and just enjoying what AEW (or any company, really) provides you as a fan. We're all marks at the end of the day.

Anyways, AEW did a fine job last week and now it is up to them to continue that momentum heading into Full Gear in November. I expect the rating for this upcoming Dynamite to be slightly down but as long as they book reasonably to where they don't insult their fans, they'll be more than fine. TNT has to be happy with the results thus far.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> Nope, not a troll. Thanks for acknowledging that. A lot of people find it easier to just passive aggressively post gifs and labelling my points “bullshit” without explaining why.
> 
> There’s a lot to criticize re: AEW, lol. I’ve been very consistent with the stuff I do like.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t use it as an insult. I’m just saying you are marks if you buy into a professional wrestling company’s line. People are like “Ooh, Cody’s listening,” when what he’s doing is posting a feedback thread. It may not even be him, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty demonstrable of the hypocrisy some people point out. It’s a bit rich calling someone holier-than-thou.
> 
> What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you fall for fan service from either promotion at this stage, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.


Again, here you go. You did NOTHING wrong with your comduct? False.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Beatles123 said:


> Again, here you go. You did NOTHING wrong with your comduct? False.


Just Ignore them. They're not worth it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That.... is a lot of likes for a perfectly timed tweet 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1181032392162590720


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Can anybody in the US confirm if AEW has the replay scheduled again this week? (the one right after)
‘Thx


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Can anybody in the US confirm if AEW has the replay scheduled again this week? (the one right after)
> ‘Thx


I see it on my cable guide — 8:00 and 10:00PM EST.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ah! Glad they kept it - that is a very good call

Thanks for checking


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah! Glad they kept it - that is a very good call
> 
> Thanks for checking


I think they said it's only for the first 2 weeks.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rbl85 said:


> I think they said it's only for the first 2 weeks.


If it draws anything like the number it did last week, they’d be wise to keep it going.


----------



## Corey

They're comin to Texas.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1181242153848201222


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Hey I tried to represent AEW on the Raw thread and tell them to not watch but people watched anyway. Oh well, that’s why we can’t have nice things


----------



## RubberbandGoat

WINNING said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> And like I said some people refuse to give credit no matter what. Time to lengthen the ignore list
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, of course. You don't even have to quote them to trigger a typical response from them. It's quite funny. I suggest not taking the bait and just enjoying what AEW (or any company, really) provides you as a fan. We're all marks at the end of the day.
> 
> Anyways, AEW did a fine job last week and now it is up to them to continue that momentum heading into Full Gear in November. I expect the rating for this upcoming Dynamite to be slightly down but as long as they book reasonably to where they don't insult their fans, they'll be more than fine. TNT has to be happy with the results thus far.
Click to expand...

i expect the ratings to be rather high, especially after HIAC


----------



## Corey

RubberbandGoat said:


> Hey I tried to represent AEW on the Raw thread and tell them to not watch but people watched anyway. Oh well, that’s why we can’t have nice things


Some people will just never learn. It's all they're used to. A constant pattern of disappointment and then hope that they'll clean it up the next night on RAW.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Corey said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I tried to represent AEW on the Raw thread and tell them to not watch but people watched anyway. Oh well, that’s why we can’t have nice things
> 
> 
> 
> Some people will just never learn. It's all they're used to. A constant pattern of disappointment and then hope that they'll clean it up the next night on RAW.
Click to expand...

yeah I got into an argument with a few of them! They are Loyal through and through


----------



## The Wood

Beatles123 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, not a troll. Thanks for acknowledging that. A lot of people find it easier to just passive aggressively post gifs and labelling my points “bullshit” without explaining why.
> 
> There’s a lot to criticize re: AEW, lol. I’ve been very consistent with the stuff I do like.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn’t use it as an insult. I’m just saying you are marks if you buy into a professional wrestling company’s line. People are like “Ooh, Cody’s listening,” when what he’s doing is posting a feedback thread. It may not even be him, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> This is pretty demonstrable of the hypocrisy some people point out. It’s a bit rich calling someone holier-than-thou.
> 
> What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If you fall for fan service from either promotion at this stage, then I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, here you go. You did NOTHING wrong with your comduct? False.
Click to expand...

Stop casting aspersions. My conduct? I think I’m very reasonable and actually have a lot of people take the time to privately message me to thank me for that. You just don’t like that you don’t have counters.


----------



## V-Trigger

AEW will be running this building (State Farm Center in Champaign, IL) on 12/4/19 for Wednesday Night Dynamite. It looks fucking cool.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

It looks like a wonderful arena. I expect a strong fill in.

AEW should worry about not overdoing the Illinois scene too much. Take a bit of a break from there before you potentially "kill the town".


----------



## Taroostyles

Chicago area might be the 1 part of the country that they cant overdo almost. 

The market is incredibly strong and if you think about it its basically like doing 1 show in Philly and the other in Pittsburgh.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Dynamite might take a hit today if the baseball game doesn’t end in the next hour. If it’s still going by 5:37pm, they’ll switch Dynamite to another channel to show the end of the game because another game starts at 5:37. So it’ll mess up ratings. Let’s hope the game ends soon to avoid it. Don’t want WWE to have a reason to gloat


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m expecting 1.6-2million viewers! And a .9 in the demo. If not, guess all the hell in a cell haters decided to stay with WWE


----------



## AEWMoxley

RubberbandGoat said:


> I’m expecting 1.6-2million viewers! And a .9 in the demo. If not, guess all the hell in a cell haters decided to stay with WWE


Google trends and social media numbers point towards a drop from last week.


----------



## Chan Hung

Has Moxley cut a promo on AEW in the ring?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Chan Hung said:


> Has Moxley cut a promo on AEW in the ring?


Nope.


----------



## PavelGaborik

RubberbandGoat said:


> I’m expecting 1.6-2million viewers! And a .9 in the demo. If not, guess all the hell in a cell haters decided to stay with WWE


They're not going to have more viewers than their first show. It's going to take some time before they reach 2 mil. They should continue beating NXT handily unless there is a significant drop off though.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

PavelGaborik said:


> They're not going to have more viewers than their first show. It's going to take some time before they reach 2 mil. They should continue beating NXT handily unless there is a significant drop off though.


I'm betting around 1.2 million myself.


----------



## Lethal Evans

Matthew Castillo said:


> I'm betting around 1.2 million myself.


200,000 less than their first show which was a home run? You mad?


----------



## PavelGaborik

Matthew Castillo said:


> I'm betting around 1.2 million myself.


I was thinking 1-1.2. anywhere in that area would be pretty impressive and a great building block.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

If they can’t get more viewers from last week after what happened Sunday then people are idiots and they’re why we can’t have nice things


----------



## Jedah

Thankfully it didn't get preempted, so most of the audience should be retained. Anything above a million would be excellent.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

.... this is going to do better than last week


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

I’d be happy with 1.4-1.5 million. Of course we don’t want to see a drop, and a good jump would be awesome. But I’d be happy this week if it holds something close to last week’s.


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> If they can’t get more viewers from last week after what happened Sunday then people are idiots and they’re why we can’t have nice things


Thing is they're not going to get new viewers based on what Sunday. If they get more views it's going to be because they put on a dope show last week.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RapShepard said:


> Thing is they're not going to get new viewers based on what Sunday. If they get more views it's going to be because they put on a dope show last week.


Yeah, agreed. The HIAC debacle didn’t really affect RAW’s ratings, I don’t see it being a factor here. Any increase (or decrease) would be of AEW’s own doing.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

Right now, I'm just focused on doing better numbers than that other wrestling show. As long as it's a better number, they should be happy.


Slowly build. We aren't getting Goldberg vs Hogan Nitro numbers off the bat. Focus on kicking the ass of that fan exploitative piece of crap show.


----------



## looper007

If they stay at the same level or get a little more over then all is good. I think it might get a long time and a lot of hard work before they start getting into the 2 millions and stuff.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I expect a lower rating. The question is how much of a drop. Shows generally tend to fall after their premiere. I hope the drop is minimal. An increase would be amazing but I assume it will take some time and good word of mouth to start growing their tv audience. Tonight's show def. deserves a good rating.


----------



## The Wood

It could go either way. They didn't fuck up the first show and there is probably decent word of mouth about it. Could go up. But others may not have cared about the show at all and just won't come back.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The show aired on Tru TV alongside TNT so I wonder how ratings will be calculated that way. Whatever the case may be, rating will surely go down, but I think it might be up next week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

AEW YouTube videos doing numbers out here.


----------



## Bubbly

Forgive my ignorance but when do/can we find out what each segment drew individually as opposed to the overall rating? It'd be interesting to see.


----------



## Erik.

No one, from the fans or those within the company, should feel disheartened if the ratings do go down, its a marathon not a sprint. Its not realistic to expect a consistent rising in ratings, especially for a wrestling show in 2019.

From my understanding, the show was pretty great (I haven't got round to seeing it yet), so aslong as they keep churning shows like this out, keep getting word out there, they'll get the viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I’m putting my marker - I called 1.4 right for last week.

This is going to be 1.6 - 1.7

Regardless, one of the best shows so far


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m putting my marker - I called 1.4 right for last week.
> 
> This is going to be 1.6 - 1.7
> 
> Regardless, one of the best shows so far


 that's a ballsy bet bro..


----------



## Claro De Luna

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m putting my marker - I called 1.4 right for last week.
> 
> This is going to be 1.6 - 1.7
> 
> Regardless, one of the best shows so far


I doubt it. I was following twitter during the show and they had various trends in the top 20 such as Jericho and Private Party but the main AEW hash tag was nowhere to be seen. But then again the NXT one wasn't anywhere on there either. The top Twitter trends during the show were something called Braves and Masked Dancers or something.

The live discussion section on Wrestling Inc for AEW had almost 4000 comments whereas NXT's had just over 500.


----------



## Ace

1.25m.


----------



## rbl85

If they are between 1.2 and 1.4 it's going will be already good enough.


----------



## EMGESP

Bold prediction. 1.5+ million viewship this week.


----------



## SPCDRI

Everything goes down from the premier. 1.1 million.


----------



## Donnie

1.8. Trust Donnie


----------



## Dark Emperor

Expecting a 15% drop from debut which is normal so 1.2m, anything lower is a disaster going forward. This is the range TNA was doing on Spike for a long time. If 1.4m is maintained than that is pretty impressive.


----------



## rbl85

Guys don't forget that AEW was on TNT and TruTV.

It's not impossible for them to have more viewers because of that.


----------



## Claro De Luna

rbl85 said:


> Guys don't forget that AEW was on TNT and TruTV.
> 
> It's not impossible for them to have more viewers because of that.


Did they put the full shows on both channels live? I heard that if MLB ran overtime they would not show AEW on TNT. Did the game finish on time?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Claro De Luna said:


> Did they put the full shows on both channels live? I heard that if MLB ran overtime they would not show AEW on TNT. Did the game finish on time?


Yup, and yup. Whole live airing of the show was on both TNT and Tru. But I believe the game ended before the next one started, so there was no interruption on TNT.


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> Did they put the full shows on both channels live? I heard that if MLB ran overtime they would not show AEW on TNT. Did the game finish on time?


Yes the game finished on time and yes the show was live on both channel.

+ the instant replay on TNT


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I think the 10:00 replay will see a rise in figures as well


----------



## Claro De Luna

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yup, and yup. Whole live airing of the show was on both TNT and Tru. But I believe the game ended before the next one started, so there was no interruption on TNT.


Wow TNT must really be taking AEW seriously to have a backup plan in place. They could easily have cancelled the 8pm showing altogether in favour of a potential baseball overrun. 

So we need to tally figures for both the TNT and TruTV simultaneous broadcasts as well as the 10pm rerun.

I wonder what FITE individual episode/monthly subscription figures are. I paid for the single episode last week in the hopes of watching subsequent episodes on ITV, but I went back on this plan and ended up taking up the monthly subscription this week so that I could continue watching live. I never thought I would be watching live wrestling on a work night. I really want the company to succeed.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

So basically that’s triple the viewership including the replay lol got to add them together.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RubberbandGoat said:


> So basically that’s triple the viewership including the replay lol got to add them together.


That's not how ratings works. Only the live viewership counts. Let not massage the figures to spin the numbers. 

The repeat is probably mostly people who couldn't be bothered to change the channel after the Live show. Its irrelevant.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

We thinking up or down from last week?


----------



## shandcraig

In my opinion I presume that they are going to keep a similar solid rating and then as a product gets better which I assume they're going to work hard to make it better and better over the year or two. I could see as they establish and become more known to do even better rating


----------



## Seafort

Week 2: 1.06M


----------



## kuja killer

huh ? was on tru tv seriously ?? Well.. wasnt for me as i recall. Was just endless marathons of "impractical jokers" ...


----------



## rbl85

Seafort said:


> Week 2: 1.06M


We will see


----------



## rbl85

kuja killer said:


> huh ? was on tru tv seriously ?? Well.. wasnt for me as i recall. Was just endless marathons of "impractical jokers" ...


It's normal because it was kind of a last minute change


----------



## sim8

https://411mania.com/wrestling/tnt-touts-7-million-viewers-for-dynamite/

7 million viewers. I need to know what is being counted in this because thats bloody amazing


----------



## kuja killer

hmm i remember actually seeing that last night showing a screen that said 7 million viewers ...that seriously confused me cause i had no idea what that was referring to specifically.


----------



## AEWMoxley

sim8 said:


> https://411mania.com/wrestling/tnt-touts-7-million-viewers-for-dynamite/
> 
> 7 million viewers. I need to know what is being counted in this because thats bloody amazing


They're saying that this includes DVR and replay views, but I have to imagine that they are including Fite TV numbers as well.


----------



## sim8

AEWMoxley said:


> sim8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://411mania.com/wrestling/tnt-touts-7-million-viewers-for-dynamite/
> 
> 7 million viewers. I need to know what is being counted in this because thats bloody amazing
> 
> 
> 
> They're saying that this includes DVR and replay views, but I have to imagine that they are including Fite TV numbers as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah but AEW in canada in on TNT too, right? So is TNT including that? Or is TNT including worldwide number and not just their tv station views, such as fite.


----------



## Bosnian21

sim8 said:


> Yeah but AEW in canada in on TNT too, right? So is TNT including that? Or is TNT including worldwide number and not just their tv station views, such as fite.


AEW is on TSN in Canada. TNT counts American viewers only.


----------



## AEWMoxley

sim8 said:


> Yeah but AEW in canada in on TNT too, right? So is TNT including that? Or is TNT including worldwide number and not just their tv station views, such as fite.


It's on TSN in Canada. It reportedly did 109K live viewers on TSN.

I would bet that they are including international viewers on Fite TV.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Undertaker23RKO said:


> We thinking up or down from last week?


about the same or slightly lower, but not enough to worry the execs


----------



## sim8

AEWMoxley said:


> sim8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah but AEW in canada in on TNT too, right? So is TNT including that? Or is TNT including worldwide number and not just their tv station views, such as fite.
> 
> 
> 
> It's on TSN in Canada. It reportedly did 109K live viewers on TSN.
> 
> I would bet that they are including international viewers on Fite TV.
Click to expand...

Oh, right. Thanks for clarifying. Either way, this is an amazing number for AEW


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yup, and yup. Whole live airing of the show was on both TNT and Tru. But I believe the game ended before the next one started, so there was no interruption on TNT.


You can send your Thank You cards to the Atlanta Braves for giving up 10 runs in the first inning.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Begs the question, if tru tv pops a rating - will they do this again - because doesn't tru tv mainly have junk?


----------



## AEW_19

Ratings in 27 minutes.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Wade Keller is predicting a 1.58 for AEW - for what its worth


----------



## AEWMoxley

Meltzer is predicting a higher viewership than last week as well, and said he thinks the demo will be higher than RAW's this week.

I wonder what this is based on, given that the analytics seem to suggest a drop in viewership. I can see the demo being strong again, though.


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wade Keller is predicting a 1.58 for AEW - for what its worth


 1.5 million?....weird for him to predict it going up
Everyone says it will be down


----------



## The Wood

I think the idea of a higher viewership is based on their feeling around word of mouth, the second week being a better show and WWE having a really bad week (I mean, even worse than usual by their standards).


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am curious to see if the nxt stratagem of a 10 minute overrun bears fruit. I'm hoping for an absolute drubbing by AEW. :mark


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

The 7m was counting up all DVR and replays


----------



## Chan Hung

SayWhatAgain! said:


> They did 1.4m live viewers, 7m counting DVR & replays.
> 
> Very impressive.


Yesterday or today. 1.4 was last week


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Chan Hung said:


> SayWhatAgain! said:
> 
> 
> 
> They did 1.4m live viewers, 7m counting DVR & replays.
> 
> Very impressive.
> 
> 
> 
> Yesterday or today. 1.4 was last week
Click to expand...

Last week. 

I edited the post cause I realised my wording was confusing lol


----------



## Ace

If they did 1.58m :sodone


----------



## Dark Emperor

If its gone up then that crazy impressive. As long as they are only counting live viewers and not adding up replays.


----------



## patpat

Its 1.01 million


----------



## Nbanflguy12

Don't we have to add up the viewers from tnt and trutv to get accurate ratings this week?


----------



## patpat

Nbanflguy12 said:


> Don't we have to add up the viewers from tnt and trutv to get accurate ratings this week?


 maybe dont know 
But this is what it did on TNT


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> Its 1.01 million


Exactly what I thought.

Meltzer's predictions are garbage. His numbers and actual data he has access to is legit, but his predictions were silly last week as well when he said he wasn't sure if Dynamite would smoke NXT, despite all of the analytics pointing to that result. Similarly, this week, the numbers suggested a drop in viewership, but yet he predicted a strong number.

As stated, they spent virtually no time on promos or showcasing character work in the debut, and that hurt them. Fake fighting for the sake of fake fighting will never draw.


----------



## Dark Emperor

patpat said:


> Its 1.01 million


We were just told 1.58m. Anyone got the official numbers & a link.

1.01m is an unreal drop if true....


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

patpat said:


> Its 1.01 million


A dip, as I expected. Especially with the baseball games that night. Hopefully AEW (and the fans) don't worry and become in panic mode. Keep doing what you're doing in terms of building quality shows and keeping the show interesting each week while also not insulting the fans.


----------



## Ace

1.01 + whatever TruTV got.

The reporting from Meltzer and Keller though :lol


----------



## The XL 2

patpat said:


> Its 1.01 million


Source?


----------



## patpat

WINNING said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its 1.01 million
> 
> 
> 
> A dip, as I expected. Especially with the baseball games that night. Hopefully AEW (and the fans) don't worry and become in panic mode. Keep doing what you're doing in terms of building quality shows and keeping the show interesting each week while also not insulting the fans.
Click to expand...

 baseball definitely fuck them one game did around 5m and the other 3m 
Hopefully they can build it back


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Apparently they lost 400,000 viewers. Damn

Still beat NXT, but losing almost a third of your audience in the second episode isn't great.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Wonder how much baseball hurt it. Also, is that total or TNT only?


----------



## Dark Emperor

WINNING said:


> A dip, as I expected. Especially with the baseball games that night. Hopefully AEW (and the fans) don't worry and become in panic mode. Keep doing what you're doing in terms of building quality shows and keeping the show interesting each week while also not insulting the fans.


That is over 25% drop from week 1. Which means a lot of stuff turned the viewers away.

They have to panic and change it up as clearly over a quarter of audience wasn't impressed.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Wonder how much baseball hurt it. Also, is that total or TNT only?


TNT only.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

I assume that 1.58 rating that Meltzer/Keller predicted accumulated for TNT + TruTV rather than the TNT rating overall.

The quarter hour ratings are going to be very interesting.


----------



## SPCDRI

Wrestling is dead. 2 good shows on and couldn't even get 2 million between them. AEW dropped nearly 30 percent in one week. They'll be sub-1 million next week.


----------



## NascarStan

1.01 million on tnt, considering how people were worried about the overrun how many people watched on TruTV?

Let's not overreact


----------



## Taroostyles

The worst thing they could do is panic. They had all the baseball stuff to contend with and still did over 1m viewers. 

What their doing is fantastic, dont change it cause of this.


----------



## AEWMoxley

SPCDRI said:


> Wrestling is dead. 2 good shows on and couldn't even get 2 million between them. AEW dropped nearly 30 percent in one week. They'll be sub-1 million next week.


No doubt. They have Darby Allin headlining the show. They're fucked.


----------



## Death Rider

That is the key thing. Did the baseball eat into the start time on TNT? So that might have affected the ratings due to it not even being on the usual channel


----------



## Ace

What's TruTVs viewership usually like?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Dark Emperor said:


> That is over 25% drop from week 1. Which means a lot of stuff turned the viewers away.
> 
> They have to panic and change it up as clearly over a quarter of audience wasn't impressed.


No, they don't. That's how you begin to throw erratic ideas and matches on TV that ultimately, long term, doesn't benefit you in any way. You'd essentially be like TNA when their ratings were beginning to dip.

TNT's expectations from the jump for AEW was around 500K. They have exceeded expectations two weeks into their debut. It's not a time to act like the sky is falling. Relax.


----------



## MillionDollarChamp

https://external-preview.redd.it/qRlYL9si2vTU6W-QcvVK6RwEZf6W8YAuaueGLa23Cnw.png?auto=webp&4d92bdcb


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Being over 1 million, and still having more than NXT, is an overall good thing. I certainly didn't expect the rating to increase without a strong hook. 

What's important is stability, keeping the momentum, and making sure they maintain some sort of streak over NXT.


----------



## Claro De Luna

EmbassyForever said:


> TNT only.


If they did at least 100k on TruTV then then a total of 1.1 million should be considered a success.


----------



## SPCDRI

AEWMoxley said:


> No doubt. They have Darby Allin headlining the show. They're fucked.


Its not like WALTER's jam tits did any better. Both shows are hosed. 

AEW did a show that is as reasonably as good as they can consistently do and it dropped 30 percent in a week. Next week sub-1 million guaranteed, NXT will be fighting to be 700,000 from a 1.2 million debut.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Unless a nice chunk watched on the other channel that is a drop-off that even I didn't anticipate. Yikes.


----------



## Chan Hung

So if the source is correct losing 400000 viewers is almost half a million which is a pretty decent amount and we've seen the ratings go up and down with the WWE so I wouldn't worry about it just quite yet at the very minimum they have a million viewers and they need to try to not get under that anybody know what NXT got by any chance today


----------



## AEWMoxley

This doesn't have much to do with baseball, because there is almost no overlap. AEW's viewership is young, and baseball viewers are mostly over 35.

This is a result of indy style booking that emphasizes wrestling above characters and promos. This has never drawn, nor will it ever draw.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Since it as simulcast on two channels the accurate total viewership will be both of those added together. I wonder what Trutv drew?


----------



## Bosnian21

I’m wondering if this includes TruTV viewers?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

I like news like this in a way. Exposes the fake "AEW fans" who were "rooting" for the company to succeed and yet "wrestling/AEW is dead". I assume AEW is smart enough to know not to panic and keep delivering shows as they have been for these two weeks.


Unfortunately, the AEWWE/Russo marks/contrarians are going to be even MORE obnoxious thinking this rating "proves them right". I'm sure you can count the posts already. :kobelol


----------



## HankHill_85

A decline was expected, but damn, it's weird how much it was. I guess baseball impacted it too, apparently? I have no clue, I'm a Canadian viewer.

NXT losing almost 100,000 viewers was weird, too.

No reason to panic. Peaks and waves.


----------



## The Wood

Nbanflguy12 said:


> Don't we have to add up the viewers from tnt and trutv to get accurate ratings this week?


Only if they were separate viewers. If people are, say, DVRing it on Tru as a failsafe but watched on TNT? That’s not really fair. If they are unique viewers, sure. 

I expected them to drop 20% each week with the silly stuff. Not much silly stuff yet, but the “more of the same” might be killing them. A lot of people tuned out of WWE and WCW when it was doing a lot of stuff that people are now nostalgic for.

People will use baseball or whatever as an excuse, but it always comes down to one thing: People would rather watch something else. Soz. Wrestling _can_ be a priority when it is actually hot/perceived as good.

1.01 is not an atrocious number in and of itself, but it’s pretty scary for week two, and you don’t want that drop to become a trend.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
1.018M [25th] [ - 0.391M | - 27.75% ]
0.460D [8th] [ - 0.220D | - 32.35% ]

AEW | NXT:
1.018M | 0.790M [ + 0.228M | + 28.86% ]
0.460D | 0.220D [ + 0.240D | + 109.09% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.808M [ - 0.492M | - 21.39% ]
0.680D [ - 0.220D | - 32.00% ]*


----------



## InexorableJourney

I wonder where all the viewers go.

Pretty much every premier on every channel gets top ratings, then the following week its as if 5 million people across all channels just switch off at once.


----------



## Claro De Luna

AEWMoxley said:


> This doesn't have much to do with baseball, because there is almost no overlap. AEW's viewership is young, and baseball viewers are mostly over 35.
> 
> This is a result of indy style booking that emphasizes wrestling above characters and promos. This has never drawn, nor will it ever draw.


Viewership of a million plus is a draw for a non WWE show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

1.14 with tru tv counted in


----------



## EmbassyForever

This week's ratings: AEW had 1,140,000 viewers between the two live airings on TNT and TruTV. NXT had 790,000 viewers.

WON


----------



## Dark Emperor

Looks like they'll be drawing the same numbers as NXT in a few weeks. Just shows this forum is completely different to reality.

For comparison, after that awful PPV, Raw only dropped 5% and there is no way Smackdown is dropping almost 30% this week.

Unfortunately the WWE brand sells and other wrestling is dead to casuals.


----------



## Ace

The Wood said:


> Only if they were separate viewers. If people are, say, DVRing it on Tru as a failsafe but watched on TNT? That’s not really fair. If they are unique viewers, sure.
> 
> I expected them to drop 20% each week with the silly stuff. Not much silly stuff yet, but the “more of the same” might be killing them. A lot of people tuned out of WWE and WCW when it was doing a lot of stuff that people are now nostalgic for.
> 
> People will use baseball or whatever as an excuse, but it always comes down to one thing: People would rather watch something else. Soz. Wrestling _can_ be a priority when it is actually hot/perceived as good.
> 
> 1.01 is not an atrocious number in and of itself, but it’s pretty scary for week two, and you don’t want that drop to become a trend.


Let's wait for the TruTV nimbers before saying anything.


----------



## llj

The roster is a little thin on familiar talent. It will take time, not just a week or two, to build star talent out of nothing. You have to start from a base of stars though, which is Jericho and Moxley primarily, and then Cody, Dustin, etc,.

The women's division is also anemic and need star power BADLY.


----------



## Bosnian21

EmbassyForever said:


> This week's ratings: AEW had 1,140,000 viewers between the two live airings on TNT and TruTV. NXT had 790,000 viewers.
> 
> WON


Still a decent drop off but solid number then. 1.14 million is good imo.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Need to beef up the womens division ASAP.


----------



## TripleG

Can we please not over react to every dip and rise in the ratings? 

TNA overreacted to every little change in the ratings, and look at what happened to them.


----------



## Ace

TruTV did 122k, that's a solid 1.14m. against baseball.


----------



## NascarStan

1.14 considering the NLDS is not bad by any means, next week you have Jericho in a title match so that will be a good parameter for AEW


----------



## Taroostyles

1.1 million is still a great number. 

We were all predicting less than that for the premiere.


----------



## EmbassyForever

yeah it's pretty great. it's just the beginning. TNT were expecting 500K in the first months. waiting for replay ratings as well.


----------



## xxRambo_21xx

not bad for not having MJF, omega, and cody wrestle


----------



## The XL 2

This is honestly fucking depressing. I just don't know how far you can go with some of this undercard.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Gotta love all the instant Nielsen experts. Never change, WF, never change.



The XL 2 said:


> This is honestly fucking depressing. I just don't know how far you can go with some of this undercard.


Nobody knows the undercard YET.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Damn, they dropped a bit but it's only the second week. Pro wrestling and a growing audience seems like a nonexistent thing these days.


----------



## Ace

Lol that 122k made a big difference, some were panicking and worried but 1.14m against baseball is pretty good and a good base to build from.

As for Meltzer and Keller unkout


----------



## WhyTooJay

:frown2: Damn, Meltzer had me hyped when he was speculating close to 2 million. 1.14 is a good number but expectations were too high


----------



## Death Rider

Taroostyles said:


> 1.1 million is still a great number.
> 
> We were all predicting less than that for the premiere.


Nah people have to panic and bitch about every little thing. Now I am not American but it getting moved to another channel may have had an impact as well. I know when I used to watch Smackdown tapings in the UK and they moved it, I would not watch it. Maybe some other choose not to as well.


----------



## The Wood

WINNING said:


> I like news like this in a way. Exposes the fake "AEW fans" who were "rooting" for the company to succeed and yet "wrestling/AEW is dead". I assume AEW is smart enough to know not to panic and keep delivering shows as they have been for these two weeks.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, the AEWWE/Russo marks/contrarians are going to be even MORE obnoxious thinking this rating "proves them right". I'm sure you can count the posts already. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/qombxRn.gif" border="0" alt="" title="kobelol" class="inlineimg" />


This post is so obnoxious:

Um, yah, a downwards trending rating would prove a lot of critics right, which is what they feared. You only have one chance to make a first impression, and outside the bubble that fellates each other, this may not have hooked viewers enough. We should wait to see the *unique* viewers on Tru, but losing 27% of your audience means that over 1-in-4 people didn’t come back. That’s it. Make up all the excuses you want. Maybe they all had their grandmothers’ birthdays or a set of strange of circumstances befell 390,000 viewers like Mr. Burns’ softball team. Ha! I’d like to see that.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Eh, that’s a shame - expected better

But then again, I’m watching on Fite, so what do I know


----------



## Mifune Jackson

I don't think AEW needs to panic, but there is something to looking at what Nitro did and how they slowly overtook Raw. They started off strong with Luger and immediately booked Hogan/Luger the next week to hook viewers in for a follow through. They're building up stables and alliances, which is good, but they should also be playing the short game. Swagger's debut was nice, and the Darby Allin moment was cool, but I'm left wanting a bigger "stunt" both weeks so far.


----------



## patpat

1m140k


----------



## AEWMoxley

AverageJoe9 said:


> 1.14 considering the NLDS is not bad by any means, next week you have Jericho in a title match so that will be a good parameter for AEW


MLB and AEW have an entirely different fanbase. There's almost no overlap. People have to be honest with themselves and admit that the indy style of booking doesn't draw. You need more than just matches.

You forgot to mention who Jericho will be facing in that title match. Do you honestly think that's a match that will draw?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Death Rider said:


> Nah people have to panic and bitch about every little thing. Now I am not American but it getting moved to another channel may have had an impact as well. I know when I used to watch Smackdown tapings in the UK and they moved it, I would not watch it. Maybe some other choose not to as well.


It wasn't moved, it was broadcast on both TNT and Tru TV. 

That being said, I'd like to know how much of a chunk the baseball games took out of it.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

They are already beating what they thought they would have ..they were going against two major stake baseball games and not to mention alot of confusion on when and where it would air ...it was still trending and it's being talked about ..fans are crashing sites to get shirts and there are things like DVR ..sling TV ..Hulu tv so it's really nothing to lose sleep about ..I had to catch the replay myself since I worked


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Some of y'all weird as fuck.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

LOL. There is nothing significant you point to with only two data points.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW drew 1.140M and was #8 on the night while NXT was #27. It more than doubled NXT in the key 18-49 demo and won every demo except the 50+ crowd. 2/2 for AEW now. Scoreboard: *AEW 2 WWE 0*. :clap


----------



## Taroostyles

The baseball playoffs will continue to be a challenge as well. The LCS has possibly 2 games on 10/16 and then the world series would have games on 10/23 and then game 7 would be 10/30. 

Let's hope for a quick world series lol


----------



## Death Rider

Reggie Dunlop said:


> It wasn't moved, it was broadcast on both TNT and Tru TV.
> 
> That being said, I'd like to know how much of a chunk the baseball games took out of it.


Ah OK I was under the impression that it got moved. Yeah same here. There might have been some impact. Curious also how many on tru tv watched it just in case there was an issue. I do think people are panicing way too much anyway. TNT expected half these numbers to start but the haters were going to use whatever they could to push their agenda. :draper2


----------



## A-C-P

Lots of Doom and Gloom over reacting to #s TNT is probably dancing over :heston


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

Sucks that it dropped so much but tbh with the wrestling market being what it is in 2019 even consistently pulling in 500-600k is good for a non WWE weekly show, Impact hasnt done that in years and LU stayed in the low 100ks its entire existence. So no need to panic yet, hopefully AEW finds its baseline viewership soon, then they can work on a hook to slowly build the audience up.


----------



## The Wood

Oh wow, those Tru numbers are not comforting at all. I honestly thought they would get a couple of hundred thousand and people would spin it into being an increase. That 1.14 might not even be unique viewers. I guarantee some hardcores watched live and DVR’d it. But even if they were unique...ouch. 

500k was always low to make them look impressive when they more than doubled that number. Everyone should know that. 500k would have been fine if they were driving people towards B/R Live *in a way that Turner could monetize* worst case scenario. But it would have been disappointing as all hell. They weren’t “expecting” that number, and they sure as hell weren’t hoping for it.


----------



## ClintDagger

It’s all about where the show settles in long term. If it stays above 1 million it’s a huge win especially with NXT getting 800k or so. Bottom line is week 1 was a big win and week 2 has to be considered very disappointing but not the end of the world.

Did baseball have an impact? Certainly. But with NXT only dropping around 10% it’s hard to blame baseball for a 25%-ish drop. Clearly a big chunk of fans checked out week 1 and decided it wasn’t for them. I actually think this week was a better indication of what AEW has to offer to a casual fan than last week. The real red flags come in if next weeks rating isn’t stable or even back up a tick.


----------



## HankHill_85

1.140 million combined viewers when the 122,000 viewers on Tru TV are factored in.

AEW wins by a margin of 350,000 viewers.

TNT has still gotta be happy as hell.


----------



## Taroostyles

Well if the AEW number is bad at 1.1 and #8 then NXT at below 800k and #27 is a complete catastrophe


----------



## EmbassyForever




----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Great result for AEW, if I was an 'E drone I would be worried tho, each weak it's getting closer and closer to Vince taking over


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> MLB and AEW have an entirely different fanbase. There's almost no overlap. People have to be honest with themselves and admit that the indy style of booking doesn't draw. You need more than just matches.
> 
> You forgot to mention who Jericho will be facing in that title match. Do you honestly think that's a match that will draw?


Last week the MLB did 3.9.

This weeks there was 2 games : the first one who finished just after the start of the AEW show did 3.3.
The game who started 30min after AEW did 5.8.


----------



## The XL 2

Wrestling is unfortunately dead, and you can primarily thank Vince Mcmahon, Vince Russo, and Jamie Kelner for that. Very unfortunate.


----------



## NascarStan

AEWMoxley said:


> MLB and AEW have an entirely different fanbase. There's almost no overlap. People have to be honest with themselves and admit that the indy style of booking doesn't draw. You need more than just matches.
> 
> You forgot to mention who Jericho will be facing in that title match. Do you honestly think that's a match that will draw?



NLDS did strong numbers in the 18-49 demo, the same demographic AEW are aimed towards


http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Final-Cable-2019-Oct-09-WED.png


Also Washington DC has been shown to be one of AEW's strongest markets and the Nationals were in a series deciding game


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Reggie Dunlop said:


> It wasn't moved, it was broadcast on both TNT and Tru TV.
> 
> That being said, I'd like to know how much of a chunk the baseball games took out of it.


A decent size considering baseball is wrapping up. Again, no need to panic and start doing irrational moves that won't help in the long run, especially for a small section of people who won't even watch it and just want to make it like every WWE show.

The overreaction is funny, though. AEW is dying. Clearly. :mj


----------



## EmbassyForever

looks like they had tougher competition this week.
btw, MLB games going overtime is a regular thing?


----------



## RainmakerV2

How do some of you know TNT is happy as hell? We got some Turner executives on burner accounts in here or something? Saying it over and over to convince yourself doesnt mean its true.


----------



## raymond1985

I hope AEW smashes NXT. 

But let's be honest, the AEW buzz is dying down. To lose that many viewers the week after their premier is a very worrying sign.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I was expecting a bigger number but it’s our job to bring it to them! Our word of mouth.


----------



## Captain Yesterday

AEWMoxley said:


> AverageJoe9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.14 considering the NLDS is not bad by any means, next week you have Jericho in a title match so that will be a good parameter for AEW
> 
> 
> 
> MLB and AEW have an entirely different fanbase. There's almost no overlap. People have to be honest with themselves and admit that the indy style of booking doesn't draw. You need more than just matches.
> 
> You forgot to mention who Jericho will be facing in that title match. Do you honestly think that's a match that will draw?
Click to expand...

 Would you happen to have some numbers to back up your claim that there aren't many MLB/AEW fans? I'm just curious since I am one of them.


----------



## rbl85

WINNING said:


> A decent size considering baseball is wrapping up. Again, no need to panic and start doing irrational moves that won't help in the long run, especially for a small section of people who won't even watch it and just want to make it like every WWE show.
> 
> The overreaction is funny, though. AEW is dying. Clearly. :mj


Well they can't afford to go down again next week.


----------



## Swan-San

They have a good setup and structure, they just need to hire bigger- or more charismatic guys tbh, the roster is too small, small size doesnt draw unless the charisma makes up for it


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

EmbassyForever said:


> looks like they had tougher competition this week.
> btw, MLB games going overtime is a regular thing?


You have to assume once baseball is done, ratings for AEW and NXT will increase more consistently.


----------



## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> How do some of you know TNT is happy as hell? We got some Turner executives on burner accounts in here or something? Saying it over and over to convince yourself doesnt mean its true.


If they expected 500k like has been reported, then logically yes they would be happy. But tbh I know as much about Turner's expectations as you do. Fuck all. Same goes for every poster no matter how smart they try to act


----------



## EmbassyForever

More #ratings news for those who enjoy #ratings news.

#AEWDynamite drew a 153.0 in week number two on Canadian television. Up from 109.0 in week one. As more fans see expanded promotion, it only makes sense that those numbers will continue to climb. #AEW


----------



## Brodus Clay

The first Dynamite was better but well they are just starting it's more about they taking note on whats working, hope they do. 

Beating NXT means shit they are niche af.


----------



## The Wood

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV said:


> AEW drew 1.140M and was #8 on the night while NXT was #27. It more than doubled NXT in the key 18-49 demo and won every demo except the 50+ crowd. 2/2 for AEW now. Scoreboard: *AEW 2 WWE 0*. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/r4mH5hF.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Clap" class="inlineimg" />


WWE got 3.8 million for SmackDown, 2.3 for Raw and are basically getting $550 million a year for their TV, on top of what they make for their shitty Saudi Arabia shows. Don’t try and spin this as David beating Goliath. This is not a good second week.

That’s not saying they need to panic. But they do need to rethink. Everyone was feeling a _climb_. That was drastically wrong. A lot of what is leading them to feel secure are false metrics. 

Their PPV retention (granted only their second one) and their ratings need to tell them something. Yes, it is early, but early is when you should be hot. This is not a hot product. Otherwise it wouldn’t have lost 60% of DON customers and _at least_ 18% of free TV viewers. 



Lesnar Turtle said:


> Sucks that it dropped so much but tbh with the wrestling market being what it is in 2019 even consistently pulling in 500-600k is good for a non WWE weekly show, Impact hasnt done that in years and LU stayed in the low 100ks its entire existence. So no need to panic yet, hopefully AEW finds its baseline viewership soon, then they can work on a hook to slowly build the audience up.


I get you’re trying to be level-headed, but I’m not sure if TNA and LU are really what you want to be comparing yourself to. That is going to lend you a real false of security, lol. 

I think it’s going to be much harder to build an audience than get them to check out new wrestling when they have been starved for it.


----------



## roadkill_

The XL 2 said:


> Wrestling is unfortunately dead, and you can primarily thank Vince Mcmahon, Vince Russo, and Jamie Kelner for that. Very unfortunate.


Snyder, Siegel, Kelner and McMahon cut a deal. An illegal one. That's how a company valued at $500,000,000 gets sold for $2,400,000 within the space of a few months, including liabilities. McMahon gave someone a huge off the books payment.

And considering slimy Bischoff never blew the whistle, I find it hard to believe Fusient Media took such as ass raping without suing for industrial sabotage, without someone sweetening them up.

Kevin Sullivan talked about it on one of those shoot videos too.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

raymond1985 said:


> I hope AEW smashes NXT.
> 
> But let's be honest, the AEW buzz is dying down. To lose that many viewers the week after their premier is a very worrying sign.


how so? With that title match next week it’ll be more than this week


----------



## Illogical

lol ratings. 90% in here scream "DISASTER". Meanwhile, TNT's content with anything above 500k. You people are insane. It was always going to drop after the first week. I predicted it itt a week ago and anyone with half a brain did as well. It's what happens. You make a first impression and people stay or go. You don't retain 100%.


----------



## raymond1985

RubberbandGoat said:


> how so? With that title match next week it’ll be more than this week


I hope it does.


----------



## AEW_19

Drop of 269k? I don't know much about baseball but if the game that started during Dynamite is drawing 5.8m, it's not completely out of the question that the viewers decided to switch for a play-off game.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Death Rider said:


> If they expected 500k like has been reported, then logically yes they would be happy. But tbh I know as much about Turner's expectations as you do. Fuck all. Same goes for every poster no matter how smart they try to act


Of course they said 500k. Its like guessing a womans age, if she looks 50 you dont fucking say 50. You go low. Duh. If a wrestling company with this much money and promotion drew 500k for a premiere, that would be a massive failure. Look, ive enjoyed the first two shows, but if you drop under a mil next week, its not a good look. Not panic time or anything, but no one here knows that Turner execs are in love with the numbers.


Thats why people glowing about AEW beating NXT is so dumb lmao. NXT isnt there to win. WWE doesnt care about that. Its there to chunk the audience. Imagine if 300,000 of those 700,000 NXT viewers were on AEW instesd. Thats what NXT is there for and its doing exactly what WWE wants.


----------



## ClintDagger

I never really bought 500k as the bogey for TNT. They were doing at or better than that with movies. If you put a number out there it’s probably one you expect to easily hit & surpass. So I’m sure the expectation was higher than 500k. With that said, top 10 and over a million seems really good to me. The key is to not fall too far from here. Part of the excitement around AEW is that they are legitimate competition for WWE. If that ever wears off you will see the die hards start to leave and that’s when cancellation is a concern. Anything over a million and with WWE in a free fall makes AEW seem like they are in the same league.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Some should avoid the pearl clutching and assess the state of the ratings a few weeks from now. Still two weeks down, 81 more to go!!!!!:bryanlol


----------



## Taroostyles

The Wood said:


> WWE got 3.8 million for SmackDown, 2.3 for Raw and are basically getting $550 million a year for their TV, on top of what they make for their shitty Saudi Arabia shows. Don’t try and spin this as David beating Goliath. This is not a good second week.
> 
> That’s not saying they need to panic. But they do need to rethink. Everyone was feeling a _climb_. That was drastically wrong. A lot of what is leading them to feel secure are false metrics.
> 
> Their PPV retention (granted only their second one) and their ratings need to tell them something. Yes, it is early, but early is when you should be hot. This is not a hot product. Otherwise it wouldn’t have lost 60% of DON customers and _at least_ 18% of free TV viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> I get you’re trying to be level-headed, but I’m not sure if TNA and LU are really what you want to be comparing yourself to. That is going to lend you a real false of security, lol.
> 
> I think it’s going to be much harder to build an audience than get them to check out new wrestling when they have been starved for it.


A company beating a WWE program in its 1st weeks of existence is not a spin on anything, it's an accomplishment that NOBODY would have believed could happen even a year ago.

Stop trying to downplay everything they do.


----------



## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> Of course they said 500k. Its like guessing a womans age, if she looks 50 you dont fucking say 50. You go low. Duh. If a wrestling company with this much money and promotion drew 500k for a premiere, that would be a massive failure. Look, ive enjoyed the first two shows, but if you drop under a mil next week, its not a good look. Not panic time or anything, but no one here knows that Turner execs are in love with the numbers.
> 
> 
> Thats why people glowing about AEW beating NXT is so dumb lmao. NXT isnt there to win. WWE doesnt care about that. Its there to chunk the audience. Imagine if 300,000 of those 700,000 NXT viewers were on AEW instesd. Thats what NXT is there for and its doing exactly what WWE wants.


Sorry but again you don't know if TNT are happy or not so again you know as much as me. If they predicted a number and double that they can't be too unhappy unless they are lying. I think people are panicing way too much and being hyperbolic. Which sums up this site tbh. I mean I expected it to go down as did most people. Like a company said it is a marathron not a sprint and it takes time to grow. 

I mean it is still nice beating NXT. But yeah it is there to hurt AEW. Not to beat it. I have to question anyone who wants to watch AEW that chooses NXT over it when it is on the network the next day though lol but there are a few for sure. Also people probs gloat back at certain users who only post in this section to shit on AEW (no not everyone who has critcisms falls into this)


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m sure the DVR playback numbers will be insanely high every week


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> A company beating a WWE program in its 1st weeks of existence is not a spin on anything, it's an accomplishment that NOBODY would have believed could happen even a year ago.
> 
> Stop trying to downplay everything they do.


Its NXT dude. Everyone was talking that Vince was going to panic and put Roman and shit on NXT after last weeks numbers. Instead the main event was Walter vs. Kushida and you had a show full of guys like Lio Rush, Cameron Grimes, etc. Sure, beating a "WWE" program is great, but lets relax. NXT isnt there to win. Its there to chunk AEWs viewership. Its doing what its there to do.


----------



## Zappers

AEW lost more viewers in one week on TNT, than NXT has lost over 4 weeks since their debut on USA.


Lot of chest thumping last week. How AEW has taken down the almighty WWE. WWE? NXT is AEW's competition. That little nobody underground 1,500 seat arena organization is ten times more profitable. AEW/TNT must be in panic mode.


----------



## TwistedLogic

AEWMoxley said:


> This doesn't have much to do with baseball, because there is almost no overlap. AEW's viewership is young, and baseball viewers are mostly over 35.


AEW's average audience this week was 42 years old. 

Good call. :eyeroll2


----------



## rbl85

Guys you know I don't think you'll see ever again wrestling shows with 5 millions people watching.

I mean if wrestling was something hot it will do way more than 1M for AEW or 700k for NXT.

In France there is +/- 67 million people and a fucking show about pastry did 2.4m (and not on a major channel)

+/- 90 million people have TNT or USA network in the US and the wrestling shows can't do better than a fucking pastry show in France….


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Yes, let's rethink everything after the second fucking week. More promos. In fact the show should start with a 20-minute blabfest every week. Matches should only be 2-3 minutes long, and none of these indy geeks, only big well-known names. Can the women's division, fire Orange Cassidy and Sonny Kiss, because they're obviously killing ratings after only the second week even though they haven't had a tv match yet. And more backstage vignettes. Oh yeah, and get rid of JR and replace him with a heel announcer. Ratings will bounce back for sure. 

Sometimes I really hate this forum.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Death Rider said:


> Sorry but again you don't know if TNT are happy or not so again you know as much as me. If they predicted a number and double that they can't be too unhappy unless they are lying. I think people are panicing way too much and being hyperbolic. Which sums up this site tbh. I mean I expected it to go down as did most people. Like a company said it is a marathron not a sprint and it takes time to grow.
> 
> I mean it is still nice beating NXT. But yeah it is there to hurt AEW. Not to beat it. I have to question anyone who wants to watch AEW that chooses NXT over it when it is on the network the next day though lol but there are a few for sure. Also people probs gloat back at certain users who only post in this section to shit on AEW (no not everyone who has critcisms falls into this)


Correct. I dont know, but neither do these guys proclaiming " TNT must be ecstatic!" Over and over. Sounds like they're trying to convince themselves to me. Lets see what happens, 1.1 mil is fine. Drop below a mil next week with two title matches in Philly and acting like its no big deal would just make you a blind mark.


----------



## V-Trigger

Zappers said:


> AEW lost more viewers in one week on TNT, than NXT has lost over 4 weeks since their debut on USA.
> 
> 
> Lot of chest thumping last week. How AEW has taken down the almighty WWE. WWE? NXT is AEW's competition. That little nobody underground 1,500 seat arena organization is ten times more profitable. AEW/TNT must be in panic mode.


You are the one popping on a AEW thread just to bash them even when they beat your precious third brand buddy. Sit down.


----------



## Bosnian21

The overreaction in here is quite hilarious.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Hey HHH. How's that marathon going so far? :heston


----------



## AEW_19

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yes, let's rethink everything after the second fucking week. More promos. In fact the show should start with a 20-minute blabfest every week. Matches should only be 2-3 minutes long, and none of these indy geeks, only big well-known names. Can the women's division, fire Orange Cassidy and Sonny Kiss, because they're obviously killing ratings after only the second week even though they haven't had a tv match yet. And more backstage vignettes. Oh yeah, and get rid of JR and replace him with a heel announcer. Ratings will bounce back for sure.
> 
> Sometimes I really hate this forum.


People are passionate on here so it's either going to challenge Raw if the ratings increase or it's the end of the world with any decrease in ratings.

There's nothing to worry about anyway. The ratings will pick back up next week if no game starts during the broadcast.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RubberbandGoat said:


> how so? With that title match next week it’ll be more than this week


How do you know it’ll be higher? Trend is going downwards already. 

Weren’t you predicting 1.6m to 2m for this week? Everyone else said there will be a big drop after debut. 

I’m glad to be proven right. This war between AEW and NXT is a joke. Their total viewers combined is less than Raw significantly and will be doubled by Smackdown.


----------



## reamstyles

Aew lack depth imo...and its showing.. and its a bad sign as the e will underestimate the competition


----------



## RapShepard

A 1 is still a great rating. That surely has them top 10 of the night.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Bosnian21 said:


> The overreaction in here is quite hilarious.


Very. Not surprising but entertaining, nonetheless.


----------



## CRCC

LOL

Just enjoy the shows and spread the word if you're having fun watching AEW.

It's only week 2 and no one knows what are TNT and AEW's expectations and target ratings.


----------



## imthegame19

Overall the drop was little lower then I thought. But still good numbers and what TNA was doing in golden years. It's gonna take time to build it up more then 1.1-1.4 type ratings.


----------



## The Wood

Captain Yesterday said:


> AEWMoxley said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AverageJoe9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1.14 considering the NLDS is not bad by any means, next week you have Jericho in a title match so that will be a good parameter for AEW
> 
> 
> 
> MLB and AEW have an entirely different fanbase. There's almost no overlap. People have to be honest with themselves and admit that the indy style of booking doesn't draw. You need more than just matches.
> 
> You forgot to mention who Jericho will be facing in that title match. Do you honestly think that's a match that will draw?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Would you happen to have some numbers to back up your claim that there aren't many MLB/AEW fans? I'm just curious since I am one of them.
Click to expand...

AEWMoxley provided the data earlier. I’m not a fan of baseball, but most of their audience is older apparently. The sort of people who watch WWE. 



Death Rider said:


> RainmakerV2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do some of you know TNT is happy as hell? We got some Turner executives on burner accounts in here or something? Saying it over and over to convince yourself doesnt mean its true.
> 
> 
> 
> If they expected 500k like has been reported, then logically yes they would be happy. But tbh I know as much about Turner's expectations as you do. Fuck all. Same goes for every poster no matter how smart they try to act
Click to expand...

*Sigh* Meltzer was either spinning or extrapolating. The 500k plus 400k B/R Live subscribers make up 900k people, which is charming enough between two platforms for Meltz to call it a success for relatively cheap year-round original programming. 

Realistically, Turner wants that slot to do over what programming would usually do. Because wrestling is pretty poor for advertising, they probably want it to do a fair bit better. 

I don’t have the exact number off my head, but I think it was something like 900k. AEW doing under a million is going to have a few execs on the phone to Tony. Not necessarily doom and glooming, but asking what he can do to get numbers up for advertisers. He is about to start feeling stressed and pressure from the TNT end for the first time. 

This is all common sense. I can promise you that TNT, specifically, aren’t going to be happy about taking a fall in overall revenue because they took a chance on fucking wrestling again. 

If AEW leads people to B/R Live and it generates more for their properties there (not just subscribers sitting around watching free AEW shit) and their PPV on B/R Live might help out. But realistically, you can be expecting <30,000 buys on B/R Live a pop. Which, if split with AEW 50/50 (like they did advertisers) is $4.275 million a year. That might be able to cover Chris Jericho’s contract. Realistically, it doesn’t cover production for the shows themselves. That will be on the Khans’ end. 

AEW will stay alive for as long as Tony wants a vanity project. But anyone hoping for him to get $100 million for a TV deal next go around is going to be needing some big changes. And the TV money is 100% what Tony saw the opportunity in. 

TNT is covering production. They’re probably splitting revenue with PPV providers. Realistically, AEW themselves are looking to make <$10 million off revenue from that stream. That’s probably going to be their most consistent metric. Obviously you have ticket sales, merchandise and advertising, but PPV is probably your biggest thing. Do you think talent cost more than $10 million a year?

This is all common sense. You don’t need to be in a boardroom at Turner to know what they normally get and what would be preferable. You can just think about it.


----------



## LongPig666

rbl85 said:


> Guys you know I don't think you'll see ever again wrestling shows with 5 millions people watching.
> 
> I mean if wrestling was something hot it will do way more than 1M for AEW or 700k for NXT.
> 
> In France there is +/- 67 million people and a fucking show about pastry did 2.4m (and not on a major channel)
> 
> +/- 90 million people have TNT or USA network in the US and the wrestling shows can't do better than a fucking pastry show in France….


Pastry is serious business in France. I for one love Mille-feuille and would welcome an Inner Circle v Dark Order patisserie bake off.


----------



## V-Trigger

Bosnian21 said:


> The overreaction in here is quite hilarious.


No shit. E-drones got slaughtered last week and have been waiting since.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Wood said:


> AEWMoxley provided the data earlier. I’m not a fan of baseball, but most of their audience is older apparently. The sort of people who watch WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> *Sigh* Meltzer was either spinning or extrapolating. The 500k plus 400k B/R Live subscribers make up 900k people, which is charming enough between two platforms for Meltz to call it a success for relatively cheap year-round original programming.
> 
> Realistically, Turner wants that slot to do over what programming would usually do. Because wrestling is pretty poor for advertising, they probably want it to do a fair bit better.
> 
> I don’t have the exact number off my head, but I think it was something like 900k. AEW doing under a million is going to have a few execs on the phone to Tony. Not necessarily doom and glooming, but asking what he can do to get numbers up for advertisers. He is about to start feeling stressed and pressure from the TNT end for the first time.
> 
> This is all common sense. I can promise you that TNT, specifically, aren’t going to be happy about taking a fall in overall revenue because they took a chance on fucking wrestling again.
> 
> If AEW leads people to B/R Live and it generates more for their properties there (not just subscribers sitting around watching free AEW shit) and their PPV on B/R Live might help out. But realistically, you can be expecting <30,000 buys on B/R Live a pop. Which, if split with AEW 50/50 (like they did advertisers) is $4.275 million a year. That might be able to cover Chris Jericho’s contract. Realistically, it doesn’t cover production for the shows themselves. That will be on the Khans’ end.
> 
> AEW will stay alive for as long as Tony wants a vanity project. But anyone hoping for him to get $100 million for a TV deal next go around is going to be needing some big changes. And the TV money is 100% what Tony saw the opportunity in.
> 
> TNT is covering production. They’re probably splitting revenue with PPV providers. Realistically, AEW themselves are looking to make <$10 million off revenue from that stream. That’s probably going to be their most consistent metric. Obviously you have ticket sales, merchandise and advertising, but PPV is probably your biggest thing. Do you think talent cost more than $10 million a year?
> 
> This is all common sense. You don’t need to be in a boardroom at Turner to know what they normally get and what would be preferable. You can just think about it.


Shhhh. Too many facts and too much logic here and not enough.."They beat NXT Haha Hunter!!!".


----------



## rbl85

I wonder what some of you were waiting for ? Wrestling is COLD

The overall fanbase is now tiny and will continually decrease because the fanbase is getting older and older.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*

They're doing really good. I think a lot of folk would have an easier time respecting this number if they weren't so stuck on"what wrestling used to do". In 2019 a non-WWE promotion is drawing a million viewers 6 shows in. That's great no matter how you slice it.


----------



## rbl85

LongPig666 said:


> *Pastry is serious business in France*. I for one love Mille-feuille and would welcome an Inner Circle v Dark Order patisserie bake off.


Dude i'm french so i know that XD


----------



## imthegame19

reamstyles said:


> Aew lack depth imo...and its showing.. and its a bad sign as the e will underestimate the competition


This has nothing to do with anything. It's a new start up wrestling company. Doing 1.1 to 1.4 was same old TNA audience for wrestling. They need to build up company to grow that audience. The rating is fine for now. I didn't expect it to drop as much. Because AEW product seems so hot. But number is good not bad at the moment.


----------



## The Wood

V-Trigger said:


> Zappers said:
> 
> 
> 
> AEW lost more viewers in one week on TNT, than NXT has lost over 4 weeks since their debut on USA.
> 
> 
> Lot of chest thumping last week. How AEW has taken down the almighty WWE. WWE? NXT is AEW's competition. That little nobody underground 1,500 seat arena organization is ten times more profitable. AEW/TNT must be in panic mode.
> 
> 
> 
> You are the one popping on a AEW thread just to bash them even when they beat your precious third brand buddy. Sit down.
Click to expand...

He’s not wrong. NXT have not been panicking. I hear a lot of genuinely experienced pundits bashing WWE for not pushing NXT harder. 

Man, imagine what will happen when they do...



imthegame19 said:


> Overall the drop was little lower then I thought. But still good numbers and what TNA was doing in golden years. It's gonna take time to build it up more then 1.1-1.4 type ratings.


TNA got a 1.1 share. AEW is getting 1.1 million people.


----------



## V-Trigger

RainmakerV2 said:


> Shhhh. Too many facts and too much logic here and not enough.."They beat NXT Haha Hunter!!!".


WWE can't even beat AEW with the help of baseball and the viewership being split between 2 channels. Makes you think.


----------



## Purple Haze

The massive drop is disappointing, but 1 million is still good for any non WWE company in 2019.


----------



## RainmakerV2

imthegame19 said:


> This has nothing to do with anything. It's a new start up wrestling company. Doing 1.1 to 1.4 was same old TNA audience for wrestling. They need to build up company to grow that audience.


You're assuming it doesnt drop below 1.1. We will see. They're in Philly with two title matches booked. You fall under a mil and its bad a look now matter how supermarks here try to spin it. Now if they hold steady or gain a couple hundred thousand then we might start to have signs of a typical mean viewership.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS

I'll worry when TNT is worried.


----------



## Swindle

I don't think NXT is really up against them to "beat" them, but rather to impact their traction.


----------



## Dark Emperor

This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that. 

Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.


----------



## Zappers

V-Trigger said:


> You are the one popping on a AEW thread just to bash them even when they beat your precious third brand buddy. Sit down.


You did the same in the NXT ratings thread. 

Ok, so you're upset that AEW didn't crush in the ratings like you thought was gonna happen. But no need to be insulting to another forum member. I wasn't specially talking to any member, I was addressing the general consensus across the wrestling world last week. If you want to discuss it fine, no need to take a personal shot.


----------



## RainmakerV2

V-Trigger said:


> WWE can't even beat AEW with the help of baseball and the viewership being split between 2 channels. Makes you think.


I mean shit dude. A show with Jericho, Cody, Omega, Mox, backed by a billionaire in a sold put arena beat Walter vs. Kushida and Lio Rush vs. Drew Gulak in front of 300 people?


Holy shit man, throw a parade.


----------



## Dark Emperor

This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that. 

Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.


----------



## Death Rider

Dark Emperor said:


> This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that.
> 
> Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.


If you were expecting anything close to 3.9m, you have no clue what you are talking about.


----------



## Swindle

Rock and the debut on Fox. Some who tuned for that might not even know AEW is a thing.


----------



## imthegame19

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're assuming it doesnt drop below 1.1. We will see. They're in Philly with two title matches booked. You fall under a mil and its bad a look now matter how supermarks here try to spin it. Now if they hold steady or gain a couple hundred thousand then we might start to have signs of a typical mean viewership.


Why would we assume viewership would drop more? We knew it would be a spike for week one and drop this week. I thought drop would be closer to 1.3 then 1.14. But there's no reason to believe it will drop more with majority of fans happy with product and fans rooting for company to be successful.


----------



## RainmakerV2

swagger_ROCKS said:


> I'll worry when TNT is worried.


And you know they arent how exactly? I didn't know we had some many Turner execs posting here. Can i borrow a few bucks?


----------



## V-Trigger

RainmakerV2 said:


> I mean shit dude. A show with Jericho, Cody, Omega, Mox, backed by a billionaire in a sold put arena beat Walter vs. Kushida and Lio Rush vs. Drew Gulak in front of 300 people?
> 
> 
> Holy shit man, throw a parade.


Back to moving the goal post. I see














Zappers said:


> Ok, so you're upset that AEW didn't crush in the ratings like you thought was gonna happen.


They did by 350.000 viewers?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

The concern trolling for what most knew already is pure comedy. Drones gonna drone.

Anyways, next week is Riho/Baker for the Women's title and Jericho/Darby for the World title, along with Best Friends/SCU in the tag tournament. That should be a solid card with one or two more matches to be added. TNT is fully behind AEW so AEW needs to make sure they keep promoting their shows every week and have something for everybody with their variety while also putting quality shows and not insulting their fanbase or their intelligence.

If they can do that at a weekly basis, they will be fine and will be able to do good business for themselves (even against the loud voices of the very few).


----------



## EmbassyForever

Lavie Margolin @Laviemarg


Perspective: In week 2 opposed (week 3 of Nitro), WCW had a huge drop and Raw had a good gain.









https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGi2EiiXkAgbwuu?format=jpg&name=360x360


----------



## swagger_ROCKS

Dark Emperor said:


> This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that.
> 
> Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.


you're comparing a fully multi year established brand that had to drag a movie star/legend, 2 very high rated MMA stars and several talent from their RAW brand to the second airing of AEW which from what I assume is not only competing against NXT, but MLB? 

It ain't that serious yet, dude.


----------



## rbl85

I laugh so much when some of you write " there is at least 10 millions people who can watch wrestling"

Guys even smackdown with the Rock and tons of advertising wasn't able to do more than 4m.....

You just have to accept that wrestling is not cool anymore, it's like a the circus. People like to watch the circus once in while because they can see guys jumping in the air, girl nearly naked, etc. but they would never watch this multiple times a during the month.

Wrestling have the same problem, sometimes people want to see guys jumping aroud and do crazy moves buts it's not something that they're interested to see every weeks.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Death Rider said:


> If you were expecting anything close to 3.9m, you have no clue what you are talking about.


Who said I was expecting 3.9m. But AEW diehards were saying how great last weeks show was and hadn’t seen a show that good in many years. Claiming word of mouth will increase viewership.

Now we see facts that the viewers weren’t as impressed. Otherwise they’d have gained some of that potential 3.9m fans as words spread.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS

RainmakerV2 said:


> And you know they arent how exactly? I didn't know we had some many Turner execs posting here. Can i borrow a few bucks?


Well, I'm reading people say TNT was expecting 500k the first couple months. They're still capped at a little over a mill.


----------



## Zappers

The Wood said:


> He’s not wrong. NXT have not been panicking. I hear a lot of genuinely experienced pundits bashing WWE for not pushing NXT harder.
> 
> Man, imagine what will happen when they do...


I watched NXT this week. Look at the matches. That was their standard imho, NXT weekly show they always have put on. I think they did a darn good job considering. 

Vince is "supposed" to be completely hands off. This is HHH project. They know what they are, and are not trying to be anybody else. It's a unique product. They have their core base of fans, they seem content. But obviously they want to grow. Their wrestlers take pride in what they are doing, and the fans have an excellent connection with them. Which is a major key asset. Can't really ask more than that.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

A lot of people losing faith. It’s sad to see!


----------



## V-Trigger

Dark Emperor said:


> This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that.
> 
> Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.


LOL at taking a victory lap on a show on regular tv, advertised during the NFL and loaded with starpower from 20 years ago.


----------



## RainmakerV2

imthegame19 said:


> Why would we assume viewership would drop more? We knew it would be a spike for week one and drop this week. I thought drop would be closer to 1.3 then 1.14. But there's no reason to believe it will drop more with majority of fans happy with product and fans rooting for company to be successful.


Because the whole message going into this week was how bad Smackdown and HIAC were and how all these mad wrestling fans were gonna flock to the new cool AEW cause fuck Vince booo. Didnt happen. Not only did it not happen, they dropped viewers more than most thought. Oh but the same guys who laugh in the RAW ratings thread when WWE gets creamed by MNF are in here crying..."baseball..baseball!" When the first game was a complete blowout from the first pitch and the second game didnt reach its climax until after Dynamite went off air. Funny how that works, no?


----------



## AEW_19

NXT marks :mj4 :mj4


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Just because people didn’t watch it live as much this week doesn’t mean they weren’t impressed. The conclusions people jump to lol


----------



## RainmakerV2

V-Trigger said:


> Back to moving the goal post. I see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did by 350.000 viewers?


I didnt move any goalpost. AEW was always going to beat NgeekT. Fucking duh.


----------



## V-Trigger

Edrones right now


----------



## RainmakerV2

swagger_ROCKS said:


> Well, I'm reading people say TNT was expecting 500k the first couple months. They're still capped at a little over a mill.


Except common sense would tell you that number is complete Meltzer made bullshit.


----------



## Death Rider

I mean I will say this, if you bitched about the HIAC's finish then tuned into Raw and did not watch AEW you deserve the shit they feed you :draper2.


----------



## The Wood

V-Trigger said:


> RainmakerV2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shhhh. Too many facts and too much logic here and not enough.."They beat NXT Haha Hunter!!!".
> 
> 
> 
> WWE can't even beat AEW with the help of baseball and the viewership being split between 2 channels. Makes you think.
Click to expand...

WWE has two properties that perform better than AEW and generates billions of dollars in revenue. You don’t need to like them to see how “AEW beats WWE” is a GIANT crock of shit, and you know it. But keep being deliberately dishonest. Discredits the rest of your posts, honestly. 

NXT had a cold launch. Despite what Meltzer and Alvarez say (and I like both guys), getting in early was not to “jump them.” They knew they would be colder those weeks. They are gathering metrics about what a cold launch can generate on network TV so they can sell their next piece of programming for a pittance. 

They’re also going cold as a strategy, so that they can actually heat up. AEW is going in loud and boldly out the gate — which they should have, don’t get me wrong. But AEW is going to go down while NXT has the potential to go up and/or stay steady.

They have not given the impression they are worried about AEW at all. They have taken this as an opportunity to give Triple H practice running things to build stakeholder faith in him. There’s a reason that you’ve mostly only seen purely localized NXT guys so far (other than Balor). IF they come, they are going to be when the tides are turning. 

Triple H has been brilliant with this. Not necessarily that the shows are (they’re good/fine), but the strategy is patient. Meltzer and Alvarez can keep saying they need to get out of Full Sail and that AEW is the much better show overall all they want. Watch those numbers and see where they are in six months. It’s going to be night and day, and people with a clue can see it.



swagger_ROCKS said:


> I'll worry when TNT is worried.


I think they will be worried not too long after Full Gear. Probably after the second post-FG rating.


----------



## Zappers

V-Trigger said:


> They did by 350.000 viewers?


Is this a question or are you telling me the exact number that AEW had more viewers?

And not sure the point. The gap was almost double that last week. Why the loss in overall viewers, and why did the difference gap go down?


----------



## rbl85

RubberbandGoat said:


> A lot of people losing faith. It’s sad to see!


It's not losing faith.

Some of you still think that wrestling is still a super hot product and that the demand is big.

It's not.

Even if AEW or even the WWE do shows that are perfect, ratings are not going to get bigger.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

People want something new then they shit on that something new and stick with the proven crap! That’s life!


----------



## V-Trigger

Dark Emperor said:


> Who said I was expecting 3.9m. But AEW diehards were saying how great last weeks show was and hadn’t seen a show that good in many years. Claiming word of mouth will increase viewership.
> 
> Now we see facts that the viewers weren’t as impressed. Otherwise they’d have gained some of that potential 3.9m fans as words spread.


It was miles ahead of HIAC, RAW and SD in terms of quality. Only trolls say otherwise. NJPW is the best promotion in the world in terms of work-rate and is doing 300.000 viewers on AXS. Who cares.


----------



## Taroostyles

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because the whole message going into this week was how bad Smackdown and HIAC were and how all these mad wrestling fans were gonna flock to the new cool AEW cause fuck Vince booo. Didnt happen. Not only did it not happen, they dropped viewers more than most thought. Oh but the same guys who laugh in the RAW ratings thread when WWE gets creamed by MNF are in here crying..."baseball..baseball!" When the first game was a complete blowout from the first pitch and the second game didnt reach its climax until after Dynamite went off air. Funny how that works, no?


Who's message was that? The part about HIAC being terrible is accurate but I didnt see anyone saying they were all going to flock to AEW right away. Obviously hopeful to increase viewership but I didnt see anyone predicting it really. 

And your argument about the baseball games might have weight if they werent both do or die playoff games. In those markets they definitely hurt the number as people will continue to watch hoping for a comeback as it's their potential last game of the season. 

I've watched Red Sox playoff games many times that I knew they were going to lose all the way out of hope for a last ditch comeback.


----------



## imthegame19

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because the whole message going into this week was how bad Smackdown and HIAC were and how all these mad wrestling fans were gonna flock to the new cool AEW cause fuck Vince booo. Didnt happen. Not only did it not happen, they dropped viewers more than most thought. Oh but the same guys who laugh in the RAW ratings thread when WWE gets creamed by MNF are in here crying..."baseball..baseball!" When the first game was a complete blowout from the first pitch and the second game didnt reach its climax until after Dynamite went off air. Funny how that works, no?


Well that was silly theory. Because if you look at breakdown of ratings. The extra million people or so who watch Raw compared AEW are age 50 plus. Those are loyal WWE fans obviously and they aren't gonna stop watching now. Plus people that age often aren't big on social media where AEW was built from. So it's gonna take time to try to get some of that audience.


The Raw 50+ rating was 1.05. AEW's was 0.03!!! But male 18-34 Raw was 0.69 compared to AEW 0.48. @aew @WWE #AEWDynamite #WWERaw


----------



## Bubbly

There's nothing wrong with the rating as long as they sustain it and don't continue to drop. I feel as if it'll be much more sustainable long term if they can cement a core audience of around 1 to 1.3M whilst they are building the foundations of the company before being a bit more aggressive in around 12-18 months time and try to grab some major stars which they will definitely need if they are to push into 1.5M+.

If TnT are happy then I'm happy though. I enjoyed the show which is ultimately all I care about lol.


----------



## RainmakerV2

V-Trigger said:


> It was miles ahead of HIAC, RAW and SD in terms of quality. Only trolls say otherwise. NJPW is the best promotion in the world in terms of work-rate and is doing 300.000 viewers on AXS. Who cares.


Now we're comparing a Japanese companys numbers on a not well known network to AEW on TNT.




Which one of us is moving the goalposts here bud?


----------



## Taroostyles

The Wood said:


> WWE has two properties that perform better than AEW and generates billions of dollars in revenue. You don’t need to like them to see how “AEW beats WWE” is a GIANT crock of shit, and you know it. But keep being deliberately dishonest. Discredits the rest of your posts, honestly.
> 
> NXT had a cold launch. Despite what Meltzer and Alvarez say (and I like both guys), getting in early was not to “jump them.” They knew they would be colder those weeks. They are gathering metrics about what a cold launch can generate on network TV so they can sell their next piece of programming for a pittance.
> 
> They’re also going cold as a strategy, so that they can actually heat up. AEW is going in loud and boldly out the gate — which they should have, don’t get me wrong. But AEW is going to go down while NXT has the potential to go up and/or stay steady.
> 
> They have not given the impression they are worried about AEW at all. They have taken this as an opportunity to give Triple H practice running things to build stakeholder faith in him. There’s a reason that you’ve mostly only seen purely localized NXT guys so far (other than Balor). IF they come, they are going to be when the tides are turning.
> 
> Triple H has been brilliant with this. Not necessarily that the shows are (they’re good/fine), but the strategy is patient. Meltzer and Alvarez can keep saying they need to get out of Full Sail and that AEW is the much better show overall all they want. Watch those numbers and see where they are in six months. It’s going to be night and day, and people with a clue can see it.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they will be worried not too long after Full Gear. Probably after the second post-FG rating.


The biggest crock of bullshit I've ever read. Good lord.


----------



## Dark Emperor

V-Trigger said:


> It was miles ahead of HIAC, RAW and SD in terms of quality. Only trolls say otherwise. NJPW is the best promotion in the world in terms of work-rate and is doing 300.000 viewers on AXS. Who cares.


Smackdown was a much better show personally. But we all have our preferences.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> Who's message was that? The part about HIAC being terrible is accurate but I didnt see anyone saying they were all going to flock to AEW right away. Obviously hopeful to increase viewership but I didnt see anyone predicting it really.
> 
> And your argument about the baseball games might have weight if they werent both do or die playoff games. In those markets they definitely hurt the number as people will continue to watch hoping for a comeback as it's their potential last game of the season.
> 
> I've watched Red Sox playoff games many times that I knew they were going to lose all the way out of hope for a last ditch comeback.


So Braves fans were hanging around down 13-0 in the 8th inning instead of watching Dynamite.


K. Some of you will just..its..lmao. whatever.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

We won't have enough data to know any trends until we are at least a few weeks past Full Gear. Anyone pretending to know anything about AEW, TNT, etc. after 2 weeks is full of shit. Nothing in this first month is going to matter at all in the long term. Let's see how things are at the end of November and then we'll see where they stand.


----------



## Ameer Patel

WINNING said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944


That's not too bad then


----------



## V-Trigger

RainmakerV2 said:


> Now we're comparing a Japanese companys numbers on a not well known network to AEW on TNT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Which one of us is moving the goalposts here bud?


I was replying to him saying that "better numbers = better" You seem upset. Take a breather.

WWE took their show to war, worked themselves into a shoot and drove from 2nd to 8th to 10th to 27th in the demo on cable over four weeks.


----------



## The Wood

Zappers said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> He’s not wrong. NXT have not been panicking. I hear a lot of genuinely experienced pundits bashing WWE for not pushing NXT harder.
> 
> Man, imagine what will happen when they do...
> 
> 
> 
> I watched NXT this week. Look at the matches. That was their standard imho, NXT weekly show they always have put on. I think they did a darn good job considering.
> 
> Vince is "supposed" to be completely hands off. This is HHH project. They know what they are, and are not trying to be anybody else. It's a unique product. They have their core base of fans, they seem content. But obviously they want to grow. Their wrestlers take pride in what they are doing, and the fans have an excellent connection with them. Which is a major key asset. Can't really ask more than that.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. When I talk about them getting stars in, I’m mainly thinking about guys that would really tear it up. Bryan, Joe, Styles, etc. Just for a tour each or something. 

There is one WWE main roster “Superstar” (in every sense of the word) I’d like to see in NXT, but that’s neither here nor there. 



V-Trigger said:


> Dark Emperor said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that.
> 
> Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL at taking a victory lap on a show on regular tv, advertised during the NFL and loaded with starpower from 20 years ago.
Click to expand...

So what you’re saying is that WWE has bigger stars and better promotion? Okay. 



RainmakerV2 said:


> imthegame19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would we assume viewership would drop more? We knew it would be a spike for week one and drop this week. I thought drop would be closer to 1.3 then 1.14. But there's no reason to believe it will drop more with majority of fans happy with product and fans rooting for company to be successful.
> 
> 
> 
> Because the whole message going into this week was how bad Smackdown and HIAC were and how all these mad wrestling fans were gonna flock to the new cool AEW cause fuck Vince booo. Didnt happen. Not only did it not happen, they dropped viewers more than most thought. Oh but the same guys who laugh in the RAW ratings thread when WWE gets creamed by MNF are in here crying..."baseball..baseball!" When the first game was a complete blowout from the first pitch and the second game didnt reach its climax until after Dynamite went off air. Funny how that works, no?
Click to expand...

Haha, ouch. True enough though! 



AEW_19 said:


> NXT marks <img src="https://i.imgur.com/PTgSHgD.png" border="0" alt="" title="Jordan" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="https://i.imgur.com/PTgSHgD.png" border="0" alt="" title="Jordan" class="inlineimg" />


Great insight. Awesome contribution. 



RubberbandGoat said:


> Just because people didn’t watch it live as much this week doesn’t mean they weren’t impressed. The conclusions people jump to lol


They didn’t come back. They need people to come back.


----------



## EmbassyForever

Ameer Patel said:


> That's not too bad then


lol, not at all.


----------



## Dark Emperor

WINNING said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944


Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.

What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.


----------



## rbl85

Normaly no instant replay next week.


----------



## RainmakerV2

V-Trigger said:


> I was replying to him saying that "better numbers = better" You seem upset. Take a breather.
> 
> WWE took their show to war, worked themselves into a shoot and drove from 2nd to 8th to 10th to 27th in the demo on cable over four weeks.


Oh yeah man. Walter vs. Kushida and Gulak vs. Rush. They really went to WAR brother. All hands on deck and all that shit. LMAO. You're getting worked into something that isnt even there.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> WWE has two properties that perform better than AEW and generates billions of dollars in revenue. You don’t need to like them to see how “AEW beats WWE” is a GIANT crock of shit, and you know it. But keep being deliberately dishonest. Discredits the rest of your posts, honestly.
> 
> NXT had a cold launch. Despite what Meltzer and Alvarez say (and I like both guys), getting in early was not to “jump them.” They knew they would be colder those weeks. They are gathering metrics about what a cold launch can generate on network TV so they can sell their next piece of programming for a pittance.
> 
> They’re also going cold as a strategy, so that they can actually heat up. AEW is going in loud and boldly out the gate — which they should have, don’t get me wrong. But AEW is going to go down while NXT has the potential to go up and/or stay steady.
> 
> They have not given the impression they are worried about AEW at all. They have taken this as an opportunity to give Triple H practice running things to build stakeholder faith in him. There’s a reason that you’ve mostly only seen purely localized NXT guys so far (other than Balor). IF they come, they are going to be when the tides are turning.
> 
> Triple H has been brilliant with this. Not necessarily that the shows are (they’re good/fine), but the strategy is patient. Meltzer and Alvarez can keep saying they need to get out of Full Sail and that AEW is the much better show overall all they want. Watch those numbers and see where they are in six months. It’s going to be night and day, and people with a clue can see it.
> 
> 
> 
> I think they will be worried not too long after Full Gear. Probably after the second post-FG rating.
> 
> 
> 
> The biggest crock of bullshit I've ever read. Good lord.
Click to expand...

Okay. We’ll see. ?


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.


Raw don't have replay


----------



## WhyTooJay

We got people in here looking like Gerald Brisco and Pat Patterson of the attitude era


----------



## imthegame19

WINNING said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944


Might be smart for TNT not to keep replying on right after the show. It allows people to watch NXT or other programming and just catch AEW at 9 or 10 o'clock instead.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

AEW_19 said:


> People are passionate on here so it's either going to challenge Raw if the ratings increase or it's the end of the world with any decrease in ratings.
> 
> There's nothing to worry about anyway. The ratings will pick back up next week if no game starts during the broadcast.


I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned. I was really hoping they’d hold closer to last week’s numbers. But I’m not gonna panic. And I don’t want them knee-jerk changing shit — stay the course and see how trends start shaping up before doing anything drastic. The reactions from viewers and live fans are overwhelmingly positive — people watching it are loving it — so that’s where they need to stay rooted.


----------



## The Wood

Dark Emperor said:


> WINNING said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944
> 
> 
> 
> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.
Click to expand...

Yeah, absolutely horse shit. Shall we see how NXT does on the WWE Network too? 

Also, being down 18% isn’t good.


----------



## V-Trigger

RainmakerV2 said:


> Oh yeah man. Walter vs. Kushida and Gulak vs. Rush. They really went to WAR brother. All hands on deck and all that shit. LMAO. You're getting worked into something that isnt even there.


What is there is that they beat NXT by 350.000 viewers and by 90% if we add the replay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

WINNING said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944


Those numbers aren't bad at all upon further review. I wonder how AEW fares in the : L+3 and L+7 days numbers? RAW barely moves the needle on those because most watch it live. AEW is probably in the same boat but I am curious to see if word of mouth does produce a bump or not.


----------



## Taroostyles

RainmakerV2 said:


> So Braves fans were hanging around down 13-0 in the 8th inning instead of watching Dynamite.
> 
> 
> K. Some of you will just..its..lmao. whatever.


In those markets? Yes. I'm not saying it accounts for the entire drop but it definitely impacted them in those specific markets. 

Also noticed you didnt respond to the 1st part cause you know its bullshit.

I knew people would try to spin AEW crushing NXT somehow but I didnt know the apologists were gonna be this bad. 

If it were flipped good lord can you imagine? What a joke.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.


It's not spinning numbers. It was for a comparison of last week when the replay numbers were added as well. He specified it in previous tweets. Relax, chief.


----------



## RainmakerV2

V-Trigger said:


> What is there is that they beat NXT by 350.000 viewers and by 90% if we add the replay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


You're literally turning into the worst type of gimmick poster and its sad.


----------



## Ameer Patel

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.


The replay is right after the actual show. I don't know many people that would watch a show 2x in a row so its more likely to be unique viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> In those markets? Yes. I'm not saying it accounts for the entire drop but it definitely impacted them in those specific markets.
> 
> Also noticed you didnt respond to the 1st part cause you know its bullshit.
> 
> I knew people would try to spin AEW crushing NXT somehow but I didnt know the apologists were gonna be this bad.
> 
> If it were flipped good lord can you imagine? What a joke.


Now AEW gets to ride THIRTEEN TO NOTHING baseball games as an excuse. Holy shit lol. This is awesome.


----------



## The Wood

WhyTooJay said:


> We got people in here looking like Gerald Brisco and Pat Patterson of the attitude era


Yes, because people criticizing AEW MUST love WWE, right? Can’t wait to get me some of that shit. Yum, yum. 

You’re going to be happy when that’s all you’re stuck with, yeah?

The plus side is that we should get NXT and Vince relieving some control out of this. Ultimately, it might be good for wrestling, but not in the way a lot of people think it will be.


----------



## Ghost Catcus

The Wood said:


> *Sigh* Meltzer was either spinning or extrapolating. The 500k plus 400k B/R Live subscribers make up 900k people, which is charming enough between two platforms for Meltz to call it a success for relatively cheap year-round original programming.
> 
> 
> I don’t have the exact number off my head, but I think it was something like 900k.
> 
> 
> This is all common sense. You don’t need to be in a boardroom at Turner to know what they normally get and what would be preferable. You can just think about it.



-This isn't an accurate way tackle their ratings. Most that watch AEW will also sign up for Bleacher Report live, such as myself and many in this thread, so you can't treat these two numbers as mutually exclusive items that can be added together as if the individuals that make up these numbers are unique. They aren't.

-Regarding an expectation of 900,000, where have you heard this? Genuinely curious. I've no idea what the expectations are, but can't recall any major wrestling outlet (and not just Dave, take Wade Keller for example) reporting such a figure.


-Funny you should mention common sense. With the Goliath that is WWE barely breaking 2 million viewers before Smackdown's move to Fox, common sense would dictate that there's no chance TNT would expect a new, upstart wrestling promotion that's never been on the air to immediately approach those numbers.


----------



## V-Trigger

RainmakerV2 said:


> You're literally turning into the worst type of gimmick poster and its sad.











I'm not letting a product that I don't like live rent free on my head unlike others in this thread.


----------



## Taroostyles

RainmakerV2 said:


> Now AEW gets to ride THIRTEEN TO NOTHING baseball games as an excuse. Holy shit lol. This is awesome.


So does The Super Bowl not get watched if it's a blowout? What about MNF? 

Do you not see how retarded you sound?


----------



## AEW_19

The Wood said:


> Absolutely. When I talk about them getting stars in, I’m mainly thinking about guys that would really tear it up. Bryan, Joe, Styles, etc. Just for a tour each or something.
> 
> There is one WWE main roster “Superstar” (in every sense of the word) I’d like to see in NXT, but that’s neither here nor there.
> 
> 
> 
> So what you’re saying is that WWE has bigger stars and better promotion? Okay.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha, ouch. True enough though!
> 
> 
> 
> Great insight. Awesome contribution.
> 
> 
> 
> They didn’t come back. They need people to come back.


Don't panic. It's only week 2 :grin2:


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Now AEW gets to ride THIRTEEN TO NOTHING baseball games as an excuse. Holy shit lol. This is awesome.


Dude they was on other MLB game who had way more viewers than the 13 to 0 game.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> So does The Super Bowl not get watched if it's a blowout? What about MNF?
> 
> Do you not see how retarded you sound?


Well bud. You're talking to a braves fan. And I turned it off after the third inning. Go look at the reddit game thread. No one watched after it was 13-0. Why the fuck would you sit there and watch your team get beat. Not beat, but anally raped. Can you imagine the RAW ratings thread if RAW lost 300K viewers while a 42-0 MNF game was on? LMAO. Just be consistent. Thats all I ask.


----------



## Taroostyles

I'm not saying it's the only factor, just that it did have some impact in those markets. That's all I ever said. 

I just dont get why so many people are coming in here trying to stir shit, is the same thing happening in the NXT threads? I dont go in them but I cant figure out why this is happening over here so it's the only thing I can come up with.


----------



## The Wood

V-Trigger said:


> RainmakerV2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah man. Walter vs. Kushida and Gulak vs. Rush. They really went to WAR brother. All hands on deck and all that shit. LMAO. You're getting worked into something that isnt even there.
> 
> 
> 
> What is there is that they beat NXT by 350.000 viewers and by 90% if we add the replay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Click to expand...

So you use the numbers when they suit you? 1-in-5 people didn’t come back, likely more. That number will likely continue to dip. Everyone expected AEW to win out the gate. Then NXT will make a comeback. 



Ameer Patel said:


> Dark Emperor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> The replay is right after the actual show. I don't know many people that would watch a show 2x in a row so its more likely to be unique viewers.
Click to expand...

It’s actually far more likely people fell asleep with the TV on. 



Ghost Catcus said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Sigh* Meltzer was either spinning or extrapolating. The 500k plus 400k B/R Live subscribers make up 900k people, which is charming enough between two platforms for Meltz to call it a success for relatively cheap year-round original programming.
> 
> 
> I don’t have the exact number off my head, but I think it was something like 900k.
> 
> 
> This is all common sense. You don’t need to be in a boardroom at Turner to know what they normally get and what would be preferable. You can just think about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -This isn't an accurate way tackle their ratings. Most that watch AEW will also sign up for Bleacher Report live, such as myself and many in this thread, so you can't treat these two numbers as mutually exclusive items that can be added together as if the individuals that make up these numbers are unique. They aren't.
> 
> -Regarding an expectation of 900,000, where have you heard this? Genuinely curious. I've no idea what the expectations are, but can't recall any major wrestling outlet (and not just Dave, take Wade Keller for example) reporting such a figure.
> 
> 
> -Funny you should mention common sense. With the Goliath that is WWE barely breaking 2 million viewers before Smackdown's move to Fox, common sense would dictate that there's no chance TNT would expect a new, upstart wrestling promotion that's never been on the air to immediately approach those numbers.
Click to expand...

-No, it’s not accurate. I wasn’t the one doing it. And I don’t think most that watch AEW will sign up. 

-I read a ratings report. They are easy to find on Google. Meltzer will tell you that 200k people watching is good. 

-A lot of people liked wrestling but WWE turned them off. A wrestling promotion could easily hope to do better. They are not unbeatable and their success is not a given. It’s possible to beat them pretty instantly. AEW just hasn’t.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well bud. You're talking to a braves fan. And I turned it off after the third inning. Go look at the reddit game thread. No one watched after it was 13-0. Why the fuck would you sit there and watch your team get beat. Not beat, but anally raped. Can you imagine the RAW ratings thread if RAW lost 300K viewers while a 42-0 MNF game was on? LMAO. Just be consistent. Thats all I ask.


Why aren't you talking about the Dodgers vs The Nationals game ?

The game started 30min after AEW and it was a close game because the score was 3-3 before the last inning.


----------



## TAC41

Where are all the white knights shitting on me last week when I guaranteed viewership would drop? Even I didn’t predict the amount would be this drastically embarrassing though. 

Also, let’s not pretend the replay numbers are anything other than people falling asleep during the first showing and leaving their TV on. Quit adding that shit to your numbers in an attempt to save face. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> I'm not saying it's the only factor, just that it did have some impact in those markets. That's all I ever said.
> 
> I just dont get why so many people are coming in here trying to stir shit, is the same thing happening in the NXT threads? I dont go in them but I cant figure out why this is happening over here so it's the only thing I can come up with.


Because a certain section of AEW fans are especially obnoxious. They watch the same shit as WWE and clap like it’s different. They also get really indignant when anyone speaks their mind about their concerns, so when it’s made evident they are living in a bubble, some people might want to say “I fucking told you so.” And rightfully so.


----------



## rbl85

Some of you are retarded….


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> RainmakerV2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well bud. You're talking to a braves fan. And I turned it off after the third inning. Go look at the reddit game thread. No one watched after it was 13-0. Why the fuck would you sit there and watch your team get beat. Not beat, but anally raped. Can you imagine the RAW ratings thread if RAW lost 300K viewers while a 42-0 MNF game was on? LMAO. Just be consistent. Thats all I ask.
> 
> 
> 
> Why aren't you talking about the Dodgers vs The Nationals game ?
> 
> The game started 30min after AEW and it was a close game because the score was 3-3 before the last inning.
Click to expand...

So those first quarters must be pretty fucking high then. Can’t wait to see how many hundred thousands must have tuned out for something better.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Why aren't you talking about the Dodgers vs The Nationals game ?
> 
> The game started 30min after AEW and it was a close game because the score was 3-3 before the last inning.


Because by the time AEW was over, that game was in what, the 5th inning? Plus, with all the devices people have at home, its not like you can't watch both. Thats why MNF is a sorry excuse for WWE just like this one is a sorry ass excuse for AEW. If people REALLY wanted to watch AEW, even Dodger and Nats fans, they would have found a way. They didnt. Point blank. Spin away.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Some of you are retarded….


I’ve seen that word from you and taroostyles now. Cut it out. It’s fucking awful and it really highlights the sort of people you turn into when your egos get bruised.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because by the time AEW was over, that game was in what, the 5th inning? Plus, with all the devices people have at home, its not like you can't watch both. Thats why MNF is a sorry excuse for WWE just like this one is a sorry ass excuse for AEW. If people REALLY wanted to watch AEW, even Dodger and Nats fans, they would have found a way. They didnt. Point blank. Spin away.


Don't talk to me like that.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> I’ve seen that word from you and taroostyles now. Cut it out. It’s fucking awful and it really highlights the sort of people you turn into when your egos get bruised.


Who said i was talking about you ?


----------



## The Wood

“I LOVED AEW!”
“Why didn’t you watch?”
“Oh, I was washing my hair.” 

Fuck that noise. If people want to watch, they will watch. They’ve got DVR. I can’t imagine why that number wouldn’t be factored in. They got MORE coverage given they were in something else’s time slot on TruTV.


----------



## imthegame19

Dodgers vs Nationals game started 27 minutes in to AEW show did 5.8 million viewers. On October 2nd the Rays/A's wild card game did 3.9 million viewers. So baseball did have some impact on drop off. But not the only reason for it either.


In AEW biggest demo 18-49 year olds it did .68 last week. That demo did 1.03 for A's/Rays game last week. Last night AEW 18-49 year olds demo was .46. While Nationals/Dodgers was 1.76 with that demo. So right there it shows that game took some of AEW audience away.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’ve seen that word from you and taroostyles now. Cut it out. It’s fucking awful and it really highlights the sort of people you turn into when your egos get bruised.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said i was talking about you ?
Click to expand...

It doesn’t matter who you are talking about. There are plenty of other words you can use than making fun of people with conditions. AEW marks, for example.


----------



## Seafort

Dark Emperor said:


> Looks like they'll be drawing the same numbers as NXT in a few weeks. Just shows this forum is completely different to reality.
> 
> For comparison, after that awful PPV, Raw only dropped 5% and there is no way Smackdown is dropping almost 30% this week.
> 
> Unfortunately the WWE brand sells and other wrestling is dead to casuals.


Of course it did not drop after that awful PPV. Ratings and attendance are lagging indicators. It takes time and effort to erode away parts of a dedicated fan base. But it will happen, possibly as soon as next week. The PPV and this week’s awful RAW almost guarantee it.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

That's a good rating vs the NLDS game. They'll probably raise a bit next week with the advertised title matches. TNT must be happy. Apparently TSN had 153k viewers last night compared to last week's 109k. :mark


----------



## RainmakerV2

​


rbl85 said:


> Don't talk to me like that.


Lmao. What? You act like baseball is some sort of constant action sport. Especially in the ppayoffs, theres like 30 seconds between each pitch, pitching changes and stalling out of the wazoo, they replay every close call, etc. If someone REALLY was hooked from AEW last week, they easily could have had it on their laptop or phone. They DIDNT. It is what it is, doesnt mean you have to like it.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

rbl85 said:


> Who said i was talking about you ?


Hurt dogs holler lmao.

Anyways. I don't see how this rating is bad. It went down but it still did pretty well. What's the issue? I mean wasn't people saying that the 2nd show was going to matter more than the first? Well it did well so AEW is clearly doing well and is doing something right. We got a big time alternative now so what's with the bitching?

Also: I don't work for TNT and this is assumption on my part but I can't imagine that they're pissed off at these numbers honestly.


----------



## DOTL

Dark Emperor said:


> This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that.
> 
> Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.


SMH at you bragging about 3.9m people. This was a supposed big deal show and it couldn't draw more than the low end viewership in the attitude era.


----------



## Ghost Catcus

The Wood said:


> -I read a ratings report. They are easy to find on Google. Meltzer will tell you that 200k people watching is good.
> 
> -A lot of people liked wrestling but WWE turned them off. A wrestling promotion could easily hope to do better. They are not unbeatable and their success is not a given. It’s possible to beat them pretty instantly. AEW just hasn’t.


-And yet I can't find hide nor hair of such a report stating 900k was the expected initial number from any remotely reputable sources, despite my googling. 

-And you think that's what TNT would base a business decision off??
'Yeah the largest wrestling company in the world is consistently losing viewers and can barely pop 2 million, and the wrestling industry itself has been in decline for twenty years, but clearly there are millions of hidden fans out there that will just immediately spring out of the woodwork to support this upstart promotion with no history. 1.5 easy right? Let's throw some money at this.'

There isn't a shot in hell that anyone with any sort of business sense would possibly consider that a viable business plan.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.


Why are you here? Let me guess ... to enlighten us ignorant masses?


----------



## NXT Only

I knew a drop in viewership would get the anti-AEW crowd going. 

Sad that some of you want this company to fail.


----------



## Death Rider

NXT Only said:


> I knew a drop in viewership would get the anti-AEW crowd going.
> 
> Sad that some of you want this company to fail.


Yep. You can clearly see who wants aew to fail and it is pretty hilarious.


----------



## EmbassyForever

lol, you guys are still going at it? at least take a break.


----------



## NXT Only

ESPN took a huge chunk of the demo with Zion Williamson making his national TV debut for the Pelicans. 

But even still pulling in over a million in consecutive weeks for an upstart that people thought wouldn’t crack that is amazing.


----------



## RainmakerV2

NXT Only said:


> I knew a drop in viewership would get the anti-AEW crowd going.
> 
> Sad that some of you want this company to fail.


I dont want it to fail. Ive enjoyed the first two shows very much. This thread is simply about analyzing numbers and the fact that anyone who doesnt say.."Well they beat NXT hahah fuck yeah"! Is somehow labeled as someone wanting the company to fail is utter nonsense. I hope they do a 1.5 next week and Darby Allin gets labeled a huge draw. I do.


----------



## imthegame19

RainmakerV2 said:


> Because by the time AEW was over, that game was in what, the 5th inning? Plus, with all the devices people have at home, its not like you can't watch both. Thats why MNF is a sorry excuse for WWE just like this one is a sorry ass excuse for AEW. If people REALLY wanted to watch AEW, even Dodger and Nats fans, they would have found a way. They didnt. Point blank. Spin away.



While it's not the only reason. But if you look at demo numbers and compare them to last week MLB game. Well that game with big stakes with it being game 5 in two major markets(compared to smaller Tampa/Oakland markets). Well it clearly did have impact on the ratings. I'm not saying it would have been 1.4 again. But it would have been 1.2 plus for sure with a lesser game. People are always going to watch wrestling show on reply or later. Then live game with win or go home type stakes like that.


----------



## RapShepard

Taroostyles said:


> I'm not saying it's the only factor, just that it did have some impact in those markets. That's all I ever said.
> 
> 
> 
> I just dont get why so many people are coming in here trying to stir shit, is the same thing happening in the NXT threads? I dont go in them but I cant figure out why this is happening over here so it's the only thing I can come up with.


It's happening because some AEW fans were very boastful in the arrogant way about numbers. So now some are making it a point to poke fun at the drop in numbers. Boasting numbers is asking for blowback when they drop.


----------



## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> NXT Only said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew a drop in viewership would get the anti-AEW crowd going.
> 
> Sad that some of you want this company to fail.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want it to fail. Ive enjoyed the first two shows very much. This thread is simply about analyzing numbers and the fact that anyone who doesnt say.."Well they beat NXT hahah fuck yeah"! Is somehow labeled as someone wanting the company to fail is utter nonsense. I hope they do a 1.5 next week and Darby Allin gets labeled a huge draw. I do.
Click to expand...

Tbh that kind of post is aimed at people like wood, zappers and dark emperor who only pipe up to make digs at aew not you who actually says nice stuff sometimes about aew. If people only ever shit on the product then quite frankly they clearly don't like it and want it to fail.


----------



## NXT Only

RainmakerV2 said:


> I dont want it to fail. Ive enjoyed the first two shows very much. This thread is simply about analyzing numbers and the fact that anyone who doesnt say.."Well they beat NXT hahah fuck yeah"! Is somehow labeled as someone wanting the company to fail is utter nonsense. I hope they do a 1.5 next week and Darby Allin gets labeled a huge draw. I do.


Did I say it was you?

There are obvious posters who are just hoping it fails so a drop in viewership or anything that can twisted as negative is giving them rope to push their agendas. 

I’ve never seen anything like this.

“Lol over 1 million people watched AEW Dynamite last night”


----------



## RainmakerV2

See Im not in here enough to track agenda and gimmick posters. So if some of these guys are, I mean, whatever. I think Woods point about Khan getting a little heat from TNT if they go under 1 mil this early was perfectly reasonable and logical.


----------



## deepelemblues

I predict that the ratings for this thread will trend downward once some people gleefully riding the line get themselves cancelled (from this thread)


----------



## TheLooseCanon

"Under 800k watched WWE's best show last night!"

- WWE Universe member Mark


----------



## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> See Im not in here enough to track agenda and gimmick posters. So if some of these guys are, I mean, whatever. I think Woods point about Khan getting a little heat from TNT if they go under 1 mil this early was perfectly reasonable and logical.


Wood also claims that a debuting wrestling company should be capable of getting 3 million numerous times and constantly shits on aew in nearly every post in the section. I don't think they are a troll but they certainly don't want aew to succeed.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Death Rider said:


> Wood also claims that a debuting wrestling company should be capable of getting 3 million numerous times and constantly shits on aew in nearly every post in the section. I don't think they are a troll but they certainly don't want aew to succeed.


Well if he said they should be drawing 3 mil out the gate...thats a little..farfetched. yeah.


----------



## Taroostyles

The Wood said:


> I’ve seen that word from you and taroostyles now. Cut it out. It’s fucking awful and it really highlights the sort of people you turn into when your egos get bruised.


Has nothing to do with a bruised ego there bud. Someone was rude to me so I was rude back, just calling a spade a spade.


----------



## Chrome

33 people in here right now. The AEW ratings thread the true draw of WF.









Anyway, despite the drop, that's still a good number imo. If it's true TNT was expecting about 500K viewership per show than they are doing twice that.


----------



## rbl85

Since the beginning i said that i want AEW and NXT to have the best ratings possible.

I watch both show so there is no reason for me to be happy when AEW does way better than NXT.

If both show did 2 more than 2millions i would be very happy.


----------



## USAUSA1

They are getting Impact on Spike numbers.

It's a good rating but I am sure TNT is not happy about the future ad revenues if the ratings don't improve in about 18 months. 

Wcw had the built in audience from JCP and GCW but they luck up with the nwo storyline and then Goldberg. Hopefully AEW got some storylines map out for the year.


----------



## Jedah

That rating is about the number I expected. As I mentioned, TV shows drop significantly after the pilot. It's still a solid number, considering most people thought it would be under 1 million for the pilot.

November will give us the real long term numbers we can expect.


----------



## imthegame19

USAUSA1 said:


> They are getting Impact on Spike numbers.
> 
> It's a good rating but I am sure TNT is not happy about the future ad revenues if the ratings don't improve in about 18 months.
> 
> Wcw had the built in audience from JCP and GCW but they luck up with the nwo storyline and then Goldberg. Hopefully AEW got some storylines map out for the year.


TNT is very happy now. AEW is doing very well in 18-49 demo(NXT is struggling in this demo) that is most important to advertisers. Now will they be happy with these numbers 6 months from now? No, but for week 2 of start up company it's doing very well.


----------



## Taroostyles

The other key is how many of the tv viewers do they convert to PPV buyers? This is where they really are very different than WWE and the network. 

If they are averaging 1.1-1.2 million viewers a week then 10% is 110,000 buys which would obviously be a great number but definitely a stretch with today's fans not use to shilling out $50 for a PPV.


----------



## rbl85

Can the same thing happened next Week with MLB?


----------



## The XL 2

Firstly, let me say that I'm a fan of the show. I enjoy very much the unscripted promos, the freedom the wrestlers have, and the TV-14 rating. And I don't think it's a question that TNT is happy. They've doubled what they expected. At worst, AEW has surpassed TNAs old spot as a very distant number 2, no matter what they're going to be a thorn in WWEs side. Their floor is a distant but competitive number 2, which is something WWF/E hasn't had since WCW in 1999, where they fell off but hadn't completely imploded yet. They've already surpassed TNA because they do comparable numbers on TV, but they beat them in attendance and PPV buys. And unlike TNA, they're much more of a threat to WWE than TNA ever was because of a number of factors. Firstly, WWE is nowhere near as popular now as it was when TNA was at its peak, it's a much weaker company overall with about half the viewership, and they've lost the last two big stars they created, Cena and Batista, not to mention a host of other upper midcarders and main eventers that aren't their anymore. Secondly, they have a production value that TNA never had. Thirdly, they do well on PPV and can sell out arenas, two things peak TNA ever did. And lastly, they are competitive in the 18-49 demo with even Raw, which TNA obviously never was.

All of that said, they have issues they need to resolve if they want to close that gap and come close to WWE or potentially surpass WWE at least in America. They need stars outside of Jericho and to a somewhat lesser extent Moxley badly. Now their are two ways to do this obviously, you hire them or you build them. It takes a while to build stars, in the meantime to bridge that gap you need to bring in guys who have name recognition. I don't know who is currently out there, but Ryback if he's healthy would be a great option. What's Wade Barrett doing these days? Again, I don't know who is out there but they need some of these kinds of guys. Another issue is though, the building stars part. I'm looking at some of that undercard, and I don't know if some of these guys have that kind of upside. MJF is money, he's the best prospect in the business by far, he's going to be great. I know they're high on Hangman Page, he has a decent look and is a solid worker, but I'm not sure if he has it. They're clearly high on Guevara, they're having him rub shoulders with Jericho which is a great rub, and he's a good looking athletic kid, but he's kind of generic and really small. He might find his way at some point in the future, but it's going to take a while. I'm not sold on guys like Allen, Janella, Havoc, etc. They need to not just be looking at the indys and finding guys with indy cred who can do cool moves, they need to be scouting talent who can actually make a difference on a national level in terms of not just work, but look, presentation, ability to talk, ability to connect with a mainstream crowd, etc. Until they find and/or develop those guys, they need to bring in guys to bridge the gap. When WCW hired Hogan, Savage, Piper, etc, it was great and it helped build their brand. Their sin wasn't bringing in ex WWF/E guys, their sin was not pushing their homegrown guys when they were ready, their sin was cutting off Goldberg who was their guy for no apparent reason, and letting guys like Booker, Jericho, Raven, etc break into the main event.

I'm still cautiously optimistic about AEWs prospects going forward, but they have to tread carefully over these next 6 months or so. And unfortunately, these next few weeks are probably going to be a massacre in terms of ratings with the MLB playoffs heating up, they'll likely be under 2 million. But after that, their viewership should go up a bit again. Hopefully they can build on that.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Dark Emperor said:


> WINNING said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182408973535698944
> 
> 
> 
> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.
Click to expand...

umm those are live replay numbers. So they count. If you get home late from work you watch the replay


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m not worried. Slow and steady. Word of mouth, they got this!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Not an excuse but 800,000 people in California had a power outage soooo


----------



## Dark Emperor

DOTL said:


> SMH at you bragging about 3.9m people. This was a supposed big deal show and it couldn't draw more than the low end viewership in the attitude era.


You're living in the past mate. Attitude era was like 20years ago. Everyone watched TV then. There's so much options these days.

The only type of shows seeing massive numbers are Live Sports (Real) as they have to be watched as it happens.

So almost 3.9m is over 1.5m the average audience for Raw this year. Which means there is still potential casuals out there. But they give no fucks about AEW (or NXT) no matter what type of spin people put on the numbers


----------



## Soul Rex

They will keep dropping in viewership if they keep shoving us so many fucking matches.

Jericho promos will save this shit. GIVE US MORE PROMOS.


----------



## Stellar

Holy cow, the overreaction in this thread. It's the second episode. Chill. Every new show goes through a drop off. What matters is where they level out at and it is much too early to know yet. Save the energy for something that really matters in your life.


----------



## Dave Santos

ZSJ said:


> That's a good rating vs the NLDS game. They'll probably raise a bit next week with the advertised title matches. TNT must be happy. Apparently TSN had 153k viewers last night compared to last week's 109k. :mark


Last week was NHL season opening night. So it probably had an effect.


----------



## rbl85

Soul Rex said:


> They will keep dropping in viewership if they keep shoving us so many fucking matches.
> 
> Jericho promos will save this shit. GIVE US MORE PROMOS.


It will be interesting so see which segments had the best ratings.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Why are you here? Let me guess ... to enlighten us ignorant masses?


I find the rating discussion fascinating and prefer to deal with facts than spin. 

Not everyone is gonna be positive mate. I said last week their rating was impressive, but its obvious to anyone who aint in denial that the company will be disappointed theynt could retain more of those viewers..


----------



## patpat

There was another game that went head to head with aew and drew 5 millions viewers decimating aew in the 18-49 demo ( which Disney's main audience by the way). 


Reggie Dunlop said:


> AEW_19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are passionate on here so it's either going to challenge Raw if the ratings increase or it's the end of the world with any decrease in ratings.
> 
> There's nothing to worry about anyway. The ratings will pick back up next week if no game starts during the broadcast.
> 
> 
> 
> I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned. I was really hoping they’d hold closer to last week’s numbers. But I’m not gonna panic. And I don’t want them knee-jerk changing shit — stay the course and see how trends start shaping up before doing anything drastic. The reactions from viewers and live fans are overwhelmingly positive — people watching it are loving it — so that’s where they need to stay rooted.
Click to expand...

 there is absolutely nothing to worry about so far, 1m140 means it's a 269k drop after their premiere and while going head to head with a Wild baseball game. It's the wrestling "media" not being smart enough to know that when a show airs in simulcast on two channel at the same time same hour you need to add up the viewership. So they went and started spreading the whole 1m01 before coming back and saying "w..we messed up" 
Thoee numbers are fucking ans that drop isnt that significant considering 4hey went against competition.
At this point it's ok to say aew's competition are MLB and top TNT programs.


----------



## Dave Santos

Dark Emperor said:


> I find the rating discussion fascinating and prefer to deal with facts than spin.
> 
> Not everyone is gonna be positive mate. I said last week their rating was impressive, but its obvious to anyone who aint in denial that the company will be disappointed theynt could retain more of those viewers..


The wwe ratings thread is 90% negative because 90% of the time they decline.:laugh: Visit that thread often.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

That is a brilliant number. Possible million who are dedicated and potential for growth.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RubberbandGoat said:


> A lot of people losing faith. It’s sad to see!


Not at all. It's only week 2. No one is panicking like some here are claiming. People are making observations and suggestions on how to improve the show so that the numbers can go up to where they should be. 

Give us more promos, give us more entertaining out-of-arena segments, create more engaging storylines, and I guarantee you that the show will be able to do better than 1.1 million, and even better than the 1.4 million they drew for their debut.

Continuing the current indy style of a wrestling-heavy show will lead to further sizeable decreases in the coming weeks. People here are having a difficult time admitting this, even though all of the other indy shows they watch that follow the same formula draw garbage numbers.

AEW seems to be receptive to feedback, so hopefully they listen.


----------



## OmegaMark

I expected this. I expect a similar drop next week. Week one had a sense of excitement to it, since you knew they had something planned for the end (Swagger was a mild letdown, but it was still exciting). That excitement was gone this week, and dare I say they're now drifting into WWE territory with their overfocus on stuffing the show with matches, and underfocus on creating compelling storylines.

My advice? Copy the Nitro format from 1996-1998. Throw us one or two great matches a week, some *quick* filler matches, and use the rest of the time to create storylines and characters. They could have easily cut 5 minutes each from the boring Allin vs. Havoc and women's matches and used it on either a more in-depth Moxley vs. Omega segment, or used it to build up a storyline with talents not featured last night.

And don't do everything in the ring or on the ramp. One of the things that made the peak era of wrestling so exciting was that they kept things fresh and exciting with skits outside of the ring. That week one segment with Moxley and Omeda taking the fight backstage was a good example, although I'd take it even further and have them fight to outside the arena, or even in an external location somewhere.


----------



## patpat

The XL 2 said:


> Firstly, let me say that I'm a fan of the show. I enjoy very much the unscripted promos, the freedom the wrestlers have, and the TV-14 rating. And I don't think it's a question that TNT is happy. They've doubled what they expected. At worst, AEW has surpassed TNAs old spot as a very distant number 2, no matter what they're going to be a thorn in WWEs side. Their floor is a distant but competitive number 2, which is something WWF/E hasn't had since WCW in 1999, where they fell off but hadn't completely imploded yet. They've already surpassed TNA because they do comparable numbers on TV, but they beat them in attendance and PPV buys. And unlike TNA, they're much more of a threat to WWE than TNA ever was because of a number of factors. Firstly, WWE is nowhere near as popular now as it was when TNA was at its peak, it's a much weaker company overall with about half the viewership, and they've lost the last two big stars they created, Cena and Batista, not to mention a host of other upper midcarders and main eventers that aren't their anymore. Secondly, they have a production value that TNA never had. Thirdly, they do well on PPV and can sell out arenas, two things peak TNA ever did. And lastly, they are competitive in the 18-49 demo with even Raw, which TNA obviously never was.
> 
> All of that said, they have issues they need to resolve if they want to close that gap and come close to WWE or potentially surpass WWE at least in America. They need stars outside of Jericho and to a somewhat lesser extent Moxley badly. Now their are two ways to do this obviously, you hire them or you build them. It takes a while to build stars, in the meantime to bridge that gap you need to bring in guys who have name recognition. I don't know who is currently out there, but Ryback if he's healthy would be a great option. What's Wade Barrett doing these days? Again, I don't know who is out there but they need some of these kinds of guys. Another issue is though, the building stars part. I'm looking at some of that undercard, and I don't know if some of these guys have that kind of upside. MJF is money, he's the best prospect in the business by far, he's going to be great. I know they're high on Hangman Page, he has a decent look and is a solid worker, but I'm not sure if he has it. They're clearly high on Guevara, they're having him rub shoulders with Jericho which is a great rub, and he's a good looking athletic kid, but he's kind of generic and really small. He might find his way at some point in the future, but it's going to take a while. I'm not sold on guys like Allen, Janella, Havoc, etc. They need to not just be looking at the indys and finding guys with indy cred who can do cool moves, they need to be scouting talent who can actually make a difference on a national level in terms of not just work, but look, presentation, ability to talk, ability to connect with a mainstream crowd, etc. Until they find and/or develop those guys, they need to bring in guys to bridge the gap. When WCW hired Hogan, Savage, Piper, etc, it was great and it helped build their brand. Their sin wasn't bringing in ex WWF/E guys, their sin was not pushing their homegrown guys when they were ready, their sin was cutting off Goldberg who was their guy for no apparent reason, and letting guys like Booker, Jericho, Raven, etc break into the main event.
> 
> I'm still cautiously optimistic about AEWs prospects going forward, but they have to tread carefully over these next 6 months or so. And unfortunately, these next few weeks are probably going to be a massacre in terms of ratings with the MLB playoffs heating up, they'll likely be under 2 million. But after that, their viewership should go up a bit again. Hopefully they can build on that.


Very interesting take that would deserve a thread in itself, I dont think they will go under 1 millions. Doing 1m140 against a game as strong as this week's is a good sign that they can retain their audience even when facing a brutal competition.
They definitely have it harder because they have to build stars so it's pretty difficult, but they should add a little more promo and video package. They do an excellent job at in ring storytelling and character development. But it needs to be a little more straight forward. For example 2 minutes promos for darby and Moxley last week would have been good.
Weirdly the mox promo was on their youtube channel. They should add roughly one or 2 more promos spots , not too much but enough to captivate the audience and facilitate the characters to connect 


Also why are some acting like prophets because they predicted that what happens to every premier in history would happen here? It's literally how it's been for every show. 269k drop + strong MLB game they need to up the game, and have like I said one or two more promos. Obviously dont start throwing nothing matches on tv and dumb segments after segments after segments , this doesnt work neither does 20 minutes promos. We saw the effect of this sbit on wwe ratings throufh the years


----------



## Dark Emperor

Dave Santos said:


> The wwe ratings thread is 90% negative because 90% of the time they decline.:laugh: Visit that thread often.


Haha. nice one. Probably gonna be same for both companies going forward. To the honest, all TV ratings are declining and its not the best measure of success anymore.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

People worrying about this don’t realise it took TNA 7 years to break 2 million. And tbh they could’ve retained those viewers if it wasn’t for all the fuck ups they made. 

Let’s just hope AEW don’t make the same mistakes. 

Imagine wanting overnight success. This is a long term game.


----------



## OmegaMark

A brief reminder of what TNA's Monday night debut did almost a decade ago:



> The ratings showed that Raw came out on top, averaging 5.6 million viewers while *Impact! averaged 2.2 million viewers*. The show peaked with three million viewers for the Hulk Hogan segment but then the viewership declined towards the end of the show to near 2.2 million viewers, the replay on January 7, 2010, garnered a 0.9 rating thus giving *TNA a combined viewership range of 3.5–4.5 million viewers*. However, despite not beating Raw in the ratings, TNA managed to set a new record for Impact!, beating the previous one of 1.97 million viewers, and thus gaining the confidence of Spike representatives.


That's roughly double AEW's debut episode, and 3x week two's episode. This, while being on a smaller network and going head-to-head with a WWE far bigger than current WWE.

Until they man up and learn not to give us four 15+ minute matches a week, AEW is officially the new TNA.


----------



## WolvesofBabylon

AEW was a better show than Raw this week. Plain and simple. I have been a wrestling fan since WM3 and the past couple years have been the worst I have ever seen. WWE has become boring, safe and predictable. 

If you are a fan of wrestling you should welcome competition. It will make the product better across the board. 



Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

OmegaMark said:


> A brief reminder of what TNA's Monday night debut did almost a decade ago:
> 
> 
> 
> That's roughly double AEW's debut episode, and 3x week two's episode. This, while being on a smaller network and going head-to-head with a WWE far bigger than current WWE.
> 
> Until they man up and learn not to give us four 15+ minute matches a week, AEW is officially the new TNA.



A lot less people watch wrestling now than a decade ago.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> Dark Emperor said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is awful. 3.9m people tuned in to Smackdown on Friday. There is a good chunk of potential viewers. They just weren’t impressed with what they saw, simple as that.
> 
> Only gonna get worse as the buzz dies unfortunately. Unless they invest heavily in better talent to get eyes on the product.
> 
> 
> 
> SMH at you bragging about 3.9m people. This was a supposed big deal show and it couldn't draw more than the low end viewership in the attitude era.
Click to expand...

And yet AEW can’t even get half of the that? What’s good for the goose. Don’t use those numbers if you don’t want the same done for you. 

*gasp* AEW couldn’t even beat TNA! 



Ghost Catcus said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> -I read a ratings report. They are easy to find on Google. Meltzer will tell you that 200k people watching is good.
> 
> -A lot of people liked wrestling but WWE turned them off. A wrestling promotion could easily hope to do better. They are not unbeatable and their success is not a given. It’s possible to beat them pretty instantly. AEW just hasn’t.
> 
> 
> 
> -And yet I can't find hide nor hair of such a report stating 900k was the expected initial number from any remotely reputable sources, despite my googling.
> 
> -And you think that's what TNT would base a business decision off??
> 'Yeah the largest wrestling company in the world is consistently losing viewers and can barely pop 2 million, and the wrestling industry itself has been in decline for twenty years, but clearly there are millions of hidden fans out there that will just immediately spring out of the woodwork to support this upstart promotion with no history. 1.5 easy right? Let's throw some money at this.'
> 
> There isn't a shot in hell that anyone with any sort of business sense would possibly consider that a viable business plan.
Click to expand...

Lol, what do you think they were sold on? “Hey, let’s get WWE-lite?”

900k was what I remember the average for the network being. It doesn’t take fucking Einstein to work out they don’t want that number going down with programming they are paying for. 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Dark Emperor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haha spinning numbers, love it. I’ve never seen them add up Raw replay numbers in the ratings before but it’s fine for AEW I guess. Replays are not unique viewers and live is all the networks care about.
> 
> What a load of bull to spin a positive narrative.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you here? Let me guess ... to enlighten us ignorant masses?
Click to expand...




NXT Only said:


> I knew a drop in viewership would get the anti-AEW crowd going.
> 
> Sad that some of you want this company to fail.





Death Rider said:


> NXT Only said:
> 
> 
> 
> I knew a drop in viewership would get the anti-AEW crowd going.
> 
> Sad that some of you want this company to fail.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. You can clearly see who wants aew to fail and it is pretty hilarious.
Click to expand...

These posts are all just vapid dismissals. None of you have a point and are just projecting. 

Everybody wants AEW to succeed. Everybody. It’s a disaster if they fail.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> OmegaMark said:
> 
> 
> 
> A brief reminder of what TNA's Monday night debut did almost a decade ago:
> 
> 
> 
> That's roughly double AEW's debut episode, and 3x week two's episode. This, while being on a smaller network and going head-to-head with a WWE far bigger than current WWE.
> 
> Until they man up and learn not to give us four 15+ minute matches a week, AEW is officially the new TNA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A lot less people watch wrestling now than a decade ago.
Click to expand...

Bro he’s compared a start up to a company that was around for over a 5 years at that point. Bunch of nobodies on AEW roster verse Hulk Hogan and whoever else was on that roster at the time - Sting Angle Steiner Flair. 

Everyone knew what TNA was at that point. It’s a bad comparison. 
Let’s see AEW in 5 years. Calling AEW the new TNA is probably the silliest shit I’ve read in my life.


----------



## Beatles123

OmegaMark said:


> A brief reminder of what TNA's Monday night debut did almost a decade ago:
> 
> 
> 
> That's roughly double AEW's debut episode, and 3x week two's episode. This, while being on a smaller network and going head-to-head with a WWE far bigger than current WWE.
> 
> Until they man up and learn not to give us four 15+ minute matches a week, AEW is officially the new TNA.


This is absurd to even say. TNA barelt managed that with Hogan, Biscoff and the fucking Nasty Boys. TNA wasn't better than AEW is now and after that they never achieved it again. AEW starting out smaller does not mean they're TNA. Fuck outs here.


----------



## Rated-R-Peepz

The overreaction in this thread is preposterous. People expected a drop. 

And it's only week two, guys. Get some perspective here.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> USAUSA1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are getting Impact on Spike numbers.
> 
> It's a good rating but I am sure TNT is not happy about the future ad revenues if the ratings don't improve in about 18 months.
> 
> Wcw had the built in audience from JCP and GCW but they luck up with the nwo storyline and then Goldberg. Hopefully AEW got some storylines map out for the year.
> 
> 
> 
> TNT is very happy now. AEW is doing very well in 18-49 demo(NXT is struggling in this demo) that is most important to advertisers. Now will they be happy with these numbers 6 months from now? No, but for week 2 of start up company it's doing very well.
Click to expand...

They are not doing TNA numbers, just to correct the person you’re quoting. 

The 18-49 demo is a bit of a trap. It used to be true that they were really important, because of advertising, but how many people in the demo even watch TV anymore? I don’t think they are measured as a separate entity, but rather as a percentage of the whole. So a 0.58 demo share, or whatever, might only mean 350,000 kids or whatever. NXT might be doing 250,000, which is much closer than “AEW is killing them” than you’d think. And we don’t know how many kids watch on the WWE Network when it comes to courting advertisers. 

Those aren’t real numbers, by the way — just estimates. But I think people are using the old “that’s the demo people are after on TV” to spin a narrative that they are attracting young people and creating new fans. With 1.14 million viewers, how many of them were kids? And how much does that matter to advertisers in 2019? 



Taroostyles said:


> The other key is how many of the tv viewers do they convert to PPV buyers? This is where they really are very different than WWE and the network.
> 
> If they are averaging 1.1-1.2 million viewers a week then 10% is 110,000 buys which would obviously be a great number but definitely a stretch with today's fans not use to shilling out $50 for a PPV.


10% would be way too generous. I think it’s way more likely to be 20% at 57,000 buyers. I compared the conversation rate to WCW in ‘99 when wrestling was cool but the product sucked. Not sure if that metric holds up universally, but reverse engineering the approximate All Out buyrate got you incredibly close to the Dynamite debut rating. It’s working as a working hypothesis. 



RubberbandGoat said:


> I’m not worried. Slow and steady. Word of mouth, they got this!


Why do you say this? If anything, I’d think with promotion they’d be hot out the gate. What makes you think people are going to slowly switch on? 



RubberbandGoat said:


> Not an excuse but 800,000 people in California had a power outage soooo


Lol, you can’t add 800,000 to the number. Sorry.


----------



## The Wood

For the people poo-pooing the TNA/AEW comparisons, I’ve heard from quite a few people that they remind them of each other. That’s anecdotal, but it’s not unfounded.

Also, AEW has far more capital than TNA ever did. There is no excuse for it not to have more penetration.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Can the same thing happened next Week with MLB?


The game next Wednesday is game 5 of best of 7. Last night was game 5 of best of 5. So last night had big stakes for two markets.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> They are not doing TNA numbers, just to correct the person you’re quoting.
> 
> The 18-49 demo is a bit of a trap. It used to be true that they were really important, because of advertising, but how many people in the demo even watch TV anymore? I don’t think they are measured as a separate entity, but rather as a percentage of the whole. So a 0.58 demo share, or whatever, might only mean 350,000 kids or whatever. NXT might be doing 250,000, which is much closer than “AEW is killing them” than you’d think. And we don’t know how many kids watch on the WWE Network when it comes to courting advertisers.
> 
> Those aren’t real numbers, by the way — just estimates. But I think people are using the old “that’s the demo people are after on TV” to spin a narrative that they are attracting young people and creating new fans. With 1.14 million viewers, how many of them were kids? And how much does that matter to advertisers in 2019?
> 
> 
> 
> 10% would be way too generous. I think it’s way more likely to be 20% at 57,000 buyers. I compared the conversation rate to WCW in ‘99 when wrestling was cool but the product sucked. Not sure if that metric holds up universally, but reverse engineering the approximate All Out buyrate got you incredibly close to the Dynamite debut rating. It’s working as a working hypothesis.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say this? If anything, I’d think with promotion they’d be hot out the gate. What makes you think people are going to slowly switch on?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, you can’t add 800,000 to the number. Sorry.


What are you trying to do?


----------



## The Wood

Beatles123 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not doing TNA numbers, just to correct the person you’re quoting.
> 
> The 18-49 demo is a bit of a trap. It used to be true that they were really important, because of advertising, but how many people in the demo even watch TV anymore? I don’t think they are measured as a separate entity, but rather as a percentage of the whole. So a 0.58 demo share, or whatever, might only mean 350,000 kids or whatever. NXT might be doing 250,000, which is much closer than “AEW is killing them” than you’d think. And we don’t know how many kids watch on the WWE Network when it comes to courting advertisers.
> 
> Those aren’t real numbers, by the way — just estimates. But I think people are using the old “that’s the demo people are after on TV” to spin a narrative that they are attracting young people and creating new fans. With 1.14 million viewers, how many of them were kids? And how much does that matter to advertisers in 2019?
> 
> 
> 
> 10% would be way too generous. I think it’s way more likely to be 20% at 57,000 buyers. I compared the conversation rate to WCW in ‘99 when wrestling was cool but the product sucked. Not sure if that metric holds up universally, but reverse engineering the approximate All Out buyrate got you incredibly close to the Dynamite debut rating. It’s working as a working hypothesis.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say this? If anything, I’d think with promotion they’d be hot out the gate. What makes you think people are going to slowly switch on?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, you can’t add 800,000 to the number. Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> What are you trying to do?
Click to expand...

Look at the numbers in the ratings thread? What are you trying to do, other than undermine discussion?


----------



## DOTL

Dark Emperor said:


> You're living in the past mate. Attitude era was like 20years ago. Everyone watched TV then. There's so much options these days.
> 
> The only type of shows seeing massive numbers are Live Sports (Real) as they have to be watched as it happens.
> 
> So almost 3.9m is over 1.5m the average audience for Raw this year. Which means there is still potential casuals out there. But they give no fucks about AEW (or NXT) no matter what type of spin people put on the numbers


It's not about comparing WWE to the past; it's about seeing how far they have fallen in recent years, let alone the AE. Acting like WWE is the pinnacle of success is dishonest, when WWE isn't anywhere near as successful as they were even in 2017. Those "potential casuals" are more than like hemorrhaged viewers seeing if WWE was something worth returning to because it was on a major network.

It wasn't.


----------



## aiden9

500K lost in one week is quite a drop. AEW should stabilize around the 1M mark.


----------



## Boldgerg

Except it's not 500k, is it.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> Look at the numbers in the ratings thread? What are you trying to do, other than undermine discussion?


No, you're complaining at people complaining at you, touting how only you are right and we must all be wrong.

I knew this was coming. Both of us are going to be in for hell...


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> For the people poo-pooing the TNA/AEW comparisons, I’ve heard from quite a few people that they remind them of each other. That’s anecdotal, but it’s not unfounded.
> 
> Also, AEW has far more capital than TNA ever did. There is no excuse for it not to have more penetration.


I think the big difference is that 10 years ago there were way more wrestling fans than now.


----------



## rbl85

aiden9 said:


> 500K lost in one week is quite a drop. AEW should stabilize around the 1M mark.



More like less than 300K


----------



## Bosnian21

I’ll just say this. If you thought AEW and/or the “Wednesday Night Wars” would revive wrestling and bring wrestling back into the mainstream merely a week after Dynamite’s premiere, then I’m sorry but you had no idea what you were thinking. 

Considering the current pool of wrestling fans, these first couple of weeks have been good/great numbers for AEW. 

If AEW is gonna help revitalize wrestling, growing the fanbase and bringing back lapsed/new viewers will take months, if not years. You grow your show over time, not one week. 

Imo, for now, a stable weekly viewership core of roughly 750k-1.2 million would be good to great.


----------



## OmegaMark

optikk sucks said:


> Bro he’s compared a start up to a company that was around for over a 5 years at that point. Bunch of nobodies on AEW roster verse Hulk Hogan and whoever else was on that roster at the time - Sting Angle Steiner Flair.
> 
> Everyone knew what TNA was at that point. It’s a bad comparison.
> Let’s see AEW in 5 years. Calling AEW the new TNA is probably the silliest shit I’ve read in my life.


Come on . . . we all know this is an excuse.

AEW may officially be a start up, but the reality is it's just a curation of well-established Ring of Honor and the indie and Japanese scenes. It's not as if they had to build a fanbase from scratch; it was already in place, hence why AEW's precursor, All In, was so successful.

The truth is, what AEW has given us so far just isn't the type of product that's going to draw in many non-hardcore fans, which is what you need to rise above that 1-2M level.

If they're fine with peaking at that level, and TNA is happy, then okay. I just set my expectations higher than that. Foolish me.


----------



## Chan Hung

Well it looks like none of the dropped fans of AEW went to NXT :lol


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> They are not doing TNA numbers, just to correct the person you’re quoting.
> 
> The 18-49 demo is a bit of a trap. It used to be true that they were really important, because of advertising, but how many people in the demo even watch TV anymore? I don’t think they are measured as a separate entity, but rather as a percentage of the whole. So a 0.58 demo share, or whatever, might only mean 350,000 kids or whatever. NXT might be doing 250,000, which is much closer than “AEW is killing them” than you’d think. And we don’t know how many kids watch on the WWE Network when it comes to courting advertisers.
> 
> Those aren’t real numbers, by the way — just estimates. But I think people are using the old “that’s the demo people are after on TV” to spin a narrative that they are attracting young people and creating new fans. With 1.14 million viewers, how many of them were kids? And how much does that matter to advertisers in 2019?


Anyone who talks about tv ratings says how important that demo is. So you gotta compare viewers to other shows on cable tv.


Outside of the two MLB games and MLB post show. Only Basketball Wives(.56 in 18-49 demo) with 1.3 million views , American Horror Story(.64 in 18-49 demo) with 1.3 million views beat AEW in .46 18-49 demo and 1.14 million viewers. With AEW beating everything(besides baseball) in combined demo numbers and viewers last week. 


It's already one of TNT most successful shows. While they aren't paying 100s of millions of dollars per year to air the show(probably cost them less then what NXT cost USA). Or are they paying for talent and to run the company like WCW. So it's no brainer that TNT is happy right now. Heck they would probably still be happy if it was doing NXT numbers. Long term they expect it to go and do stronger ratings. But for right now it's doing very well despite 2nd week drop off.


----------



## aiden9

Boldgerg said:


> Except it's not 500k, is it.





rbl85 said:


> More like less than 300K


For the LIVE show it was more than 500K. & thats what matters the most. replays do not. 
:becky2


----------



## Bosnian21

aiden9 said:


> For the LIVE show it was more than 500K. & thats what matters the most. replays do not.
> :becky2


Not even close to 500k drop for live views. 1.40 to 1.14. 

You thought you did something. Lmaoooo


----------



## rbl85

aiden9 said:


> For the LIVE show it was more than 500K. & thats what matters the most. replays do not.
> :becky2


Except that when you add the number of TruTV (which was live) you have more than 1.1M :x


----------



## Bosnian21

All these people comparing TNA’s viewership numbers to AEW when both cable subscriptions and wrestling viewership have very much decreased in years since. Holy shit some you have no clue wtf you’re talking about. Completely taking things out of context.


----------



## aiden9

Bosnian21 said:


> Not even close to 500k drop for live views. 1.40 to 1.14.
> 
> You thought you did something. Lmaoooo





rbl85 said:


> Except that when you add the number of TruTV (which was live) you have more than 1.1M :x


AEW marks are so easily worked up. 
:vince2


----------



## Matthew Castillo

aiden9 said:


> For the LIVE show it was more than 500K. & thats what matters the most. replays do not.
> :becky2


The live show went from 1.4 to 1.1, how is that a 500k drop?


----------



## rbl85

aiden9 said:


> AEW marks are so easily worked up.
> :vince2


I thought you really didn't know :smile2:


----------



## .christopher.

AEW need to realise that wrestling and spotfest clusterfucks don't sell fast. They need some proper entertaining characters at the forefront, and let the undercard prioritise workrate.

Right now, Dynamite feels like your typical indy show with Chris Jericho and Jim Ross thrown in, and that's not good.


----------



## Geeee

Ok it's good to know this thread is gonna be trash and is not worth reading.


----------



## imthegame19

.christopher. said:


> AEW need to realise that wrestling and spotfest clusterfucks don't sell fast. They need some proper entertaining characters at the forefront, and let the undercard prioritise workrate.
> 
> Right now, Dynamite feels like your typical indy show with Chris Jericho and Jim Ross thrown in, and that's not good.



Yet the company has been around for 10 months. Its drawing 5,000 to 14,000 fans per show, doing over 100,000 ppv buys and has over million viewers on tv already. I'm sorry but they don't need any advice right now. If they were still doing these numbers a year from now and haven't grown. Then it's time to give advice. They are doing something nobody ever done right now. 



Hype and excitement from fans and wrestling media just has expectations too high. So if it's not selling out show or doing more buys then last show or if there was dump off after hype of first show. People act like it's a failure lol. The company is doing amazing and we won't know if what their doing can't grow for a bigger audience for a while. One or two weeks of tv doesn't tell people anything. You need months and months of data for that. But for right now AEW is a top 2-8 cable tv show on Wednesday night and hit for TNT so far.


----------



## .christopher.

imthegame19 said:


> Yet the company has been around for 10 months. Its drawing 5,000 to 14,000 fans per show, doing over 100,000 ppv buys and has over million viewers on tv already. I'm sorry but they don't need any advice right now. If they were still doing these numbers a year from now and haven't grown. Then it's time to give advice. They are doing something nobody ever done right now.


I disagree.

They need to take full advantage of all the press, talk, etc now, before people start associating them with your typical indy show which, to most, isn't appealing.


----------



## birthday_massacre

At leat give them a couple of months to see wehre the ratings end up lol

all teh WWE trolls cominog in here


----------



## imthegame19

.christopher. said:


> I disagree.
> 
> They need to take full advantage of all the press, talk, etc now, before people start associating them with your typical indy show which, to most, isn't appealing.


It doesn't look like a indy show and won't be associated as one. Thinking wrestling style needs to be a certain way is a outdated Vince McMahon theory. There's nothing wrong with wrestlers and wrestling in AEW. Remember they don't want to be WWE they want to be the alternative.


----------



## Chan Hung

This I guess is what you would call Growing Pains and they should learn and get better and grow out of it soon and I suggest they do more Promos in the ring let's do some backstage skits and when I talked about promos and skits they don't have to be long but they have to offer something than just matches. Dare I say sign more big men ?


----------



## imthegame19

birthday_massacre said:


> At leat give them a couple of months to see wehre the ratings end up lol
> 
> all teh WWE trolls cominog in here


Lol ya last week it was numbers mean nothing it's vs NXT the C show. Now AEW ratings fall as expected(1.2-1.3 is what I thought they would do) even though it was little lower then I thought. It's all sky falling comments. But when you actually look at the tv ratings and compare where AEW ranks against other shows. 


Well it did pretty well still. I will be surprised if it's not up to 1.2-1.3 next week. Because elimination game 5 baseball game with big LA and DC markets did hurt AEW a little bit. Overall fans should be happy with these numbers for two weeks of tv. Considering the company been around for 10 months lol.


----------



## headstar

AEW is going down the tubes and neither Vince McMahon nor Russo have anything to do with it. It's all Tony's fault for not caring about the casuals. AEW is not a sacred cow like NXT or a household name like WWE, so their ratings will keep falling if AEW continue in their Indy mindset.

AEW are proving Vince Russo right, wrestling doesn't draw.


----------



## imthegame19

Chan Hung said:


> This I guess is what you would call Growing Pains and they should learn and get better and grow out of it soon and I suggest they do more Promos in the ring let's do some backstage skits and when I talked about promos and skits they don't have to be long but they have to offer something than just matches. Dare I say sign more big men ?


I doubt they change anything. Even if week 1 did 1.1 and week 2 did 1.0 AEW would have been happy with how they are doing in 18-49 demo. So they aren't gonna change anything going from 1.4 to 1.1 that's for sure. Now if ratings don't grow or drop slightly more. 


Then that's when they might consider something different. People seem to forget TNT isn't paying 100s of millions of dollars to air AEW and investent is probably less then USA is paying for NXT. So TNT would have been happy with 500,000-700,000 viewers. When you consider revenue from BR Live and what ratings on reruns and ad revenue from it usually gets them in that time slot.


----------



## Ghost Catcus

The Wood said:


> Lol, what do you think they were sold on? “Hey, let’s get WWE-lite?”
> 
> 900k was what I remember the average for the network being. It doesn’t take fucking Einstein to work out they don’t want that number going down with programming they are paying for.



-It doesn't matter what sort of wrestling they were sold on, no major network in their right mind is going to view what has been a declining market for 20 years, see that the only true force left in said market, which has an established brand and presence and yet has barely been able to exceed 2 million views, will somehow magically think that a brand new promotion without any of that history is going to somehow pull near those numbers right of the bat. It certainly doesn't take fucking Einstein to understand this sort of logic, and yet here I am having to repeat it to you twice.

-As for the ratings, here are the last six highest Wednesday ratings on TNT before AEW debuted.

Sept. 25=Beauty and the Beast - 678,000 

Sept. 18=UEFA Champion's League - 304,000

Sept. 11=TNT didn't even register in the top 150, and to do that, their 18-49 share, which is how the ratings are sorted by default, was below .04.

Sept. 4=Again, no top 150, meaning their rating was below .05. For a frame of reference, of the bottom 10 shows in the 150, five of them had ratings in the 100,000s.

Aug 28th= B/R Football Matchday - 128,000

August 21st = Again, no top 150

From the three nights recorded, they average 370,000. If you add in the three nights they didn't break the top 150 and landed in either the 100,000s or the 200,000s, there's no chance they break 300,000 on average for a Wednesday.

If AEW levels out at 900,000, they'll triple that. If they grow their viewership over time, quadruple it. While I can't say what their ratings are overall, it sure as hell isn't 900,000 on Wednesday.


----------



## The Wood

Beatles123 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the numbers in the ratings thread? What are you trying to do, other than undermine discussion?
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're complaining at people complaining at you, touting how only you are right and we must all be wrong.
> 
> I knew this was coming. Both of us are going to be in for hell...
Click to expand...

Stop the ad hominem and address the points, Beatles. You’re saying nothing but “oh, here is the criticism.” Yes. I am allowed. And I provided arguments, and not doing what you are doing. You are dishonest. 



rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> For the people poo-pooing the TNA/AEW comparisons, I’ve heard from quite a few people that they remind them of each other. That’s anecdotal, but it’s not unfounded.
> 
> Also, AEW has far more capital than TNA ever did. There is no excuse for it not to have more penetration.
> 
> 
> 
> I think the big difference is that 10 years ago there were way more wrestling fans than now.
Click to expand...

That’s very true, and this is a problem. 



Chan Hung said:


> Well it looks like none of the dropped fans of AEW went to NXT <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />


Not in terms of TNT vs. NXT, but how many watched on the WWE Network? 



imthegame19 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> They are not doing TNA numbers, just to correct the person you’re quoting.
> 
> The 18-49 demo is a bit of a trap. It used to be true that they were really important, because of advertising, but how many people in the demo even watch TV anymore? I don’t think they are measured as a separate entity, but rather as a percentage of the whole. So a 0.58 demo share, or whatever, might only mean 350,000 kids or whatever. NXT might be doing 250,000, which is much closer than “AEW is killing them” than you’d think. And we don’t know how many kids watch on the WWE Network when it comes to courting advertisers.
> 
> Those aren’t real numbers, by the way — just estimates. But I think people are using the old “that’s the demo people are after on TV” to spin a narrative that they are attracting young people and creating new fans. With 1.14 million viewers, how many of them were kids? And how much does that matter to advertisers in 2019?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone who talks about tv ratings says how important that demo is. So you gotta compare viewers to other shows on cable tv.
> 
> 
> Outside of the two MLB games and MLB post show. Only Basketball Wives(.56 in 18-49 demo) with 1.3 million views , American Horror Story(.64 in 18-49 demo) with 1.3 million views beat AEW in .46 18-49 demo and 1.14 million viewers. With AEW beating everything(besides baseball) in combined demo numbers and viewers last week.
> 
> 
> It's already one of TNT most successful shows. While they aren't paying 100s of millions of dollars per year to air the show(probably cost them less then what NXT cost USA). Or are they paying for talent and to run the company like WCW. So it's no brainer that TNT is happy right now. Heck they would probably still be happy if it was doing NXT numbers. Long term they expect it to go and do stronger ratings. But for right now it's doing very well despite 2nd week drop off.
Click to expand...

They used to, but do they still? Don’t get me wrong, having a better demo rating is still important, but how small is that portion? What do advertisers see when they see a 0.44 demo rating in 2019? 

Meltzer acts like it is king. But if TV is an older medium, then maybe winning older people is more important to advertisers *on this medium?* 

We also don’t know how much of the demo is watching on NXT. If it is just a couple of hundred thousand, which isn’t out the realms of possibility, then it’s possible that there isn’t actually a major discrepancy.

I mean, neither number is killer, but the idea that Meltzer is perpetuating is that AEW tests better with younger fans. Well, we know that about TNT. But they could watch AEW on TNT and then NXT on the Network they already had. How many subscribers to the WWE Network are over 50? 



Bosnian21 said:


> All these people comparing TNA’s viewership numbers to AEW when both cable subscriptions and wrestling viewership have very much decreased in years since. Holy shit some you have no clue wtf you’re talking about. Completely taking things out of context.


You are taking what they are doing out of context. Yes, viewers have decreased. *That is the issue.*



birthday_massacre said:


> At leat give them a couple of months to see wehre the ratings end up lol
> 
> all teh WWE trolls cominog in here


What makes you think they’ve got a couple of months? 



imthegame19 said:


> .christopher. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> 
> They need to take full advantage of all the press, talk, etc now, before people start associating them with your typical indy show which, to most, isn't appealing.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't look like a indy show and won't be associated as one. Thinking wrestling style needs to be a certain way is a outdated Vince McMahon theory. There's nothing wrong with wrestlers and wrestling in AEW. Remember they don't want to be WWE they want to be the alternative.
Click to expand...

Then they should stop doing things exactly like WWE.


----------



## Chan Hung

imthegame19 said:


> Chan Hung said:
> 
> 
> 
> This I guess is what you would call Growing Pains and they should learn and get better and grow out of it soon and I suggest they do more Promos in the ring let's do some backstage skits and when I talked about promos and skits they don't have to be long but they have to offer something than just matches. Dare I say sign more big men ?
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt they change anything. Even if week 1 did 1.1 and week 2 did 1.0 AEW would have been happy with how they are doing in 18-49 demo. So they aren't gonna change anything going from 1.4 to 1.1 that's for sure. Now if ratings don't grow or drop slightly more.
> 
> 
> Then that's when they might consider something different. People seem to forget TNT isn't paying 100s of millions of dollars to air AEW and probably paying less then USA is for NXT. So TNT would have been happy with 500,000 viewers. When you consider revenue from BR Live and what ratings on reruns and ad revenue from it usually gets them in that time slot.
Click to expand...

 they're in a tricky situation because they're on national TV and they definitely need casuals and also they don't want to turn off their base so they have to try to find a middle ground and if they can add another two major Superstars that would really benefit them but the problem is no one's available for two or three more years lol


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Then they should stop doing things exactly like WWE.


Lol people can't have it both ways. People are saying they need more big guys, more stars/names,more promos and shorter matches. Then people like you are saying they need to stop doing things exactly like WWE. What is it then? Lol


----------



## imthegame19

Chan Hung said:


> they're in a tricky situation because they're on national TV and they definitely need casuals and also they don't want to turn off their base so they have to try to find a middle ground and if they can add another two major Superstars that would really benefit them but the problem is no one's available for two or three more years lol


AEW has multi-year deal with TNT. They are gonna develop their own and talent do what they think is best. They believe in talent they have and believe in style of wrestling show will work. Falling into the trap of needing more stars and being like WWE lite(more promos, storylines, shorter matches). Was exactly what TNA downfall was. Fans need to give them time and not ask for changes after one or two weeks lol. The ratings are doing more then double the viewers that insiders from Forbles predicted. So they are off to a great start.


----------



## Y.2.J

I have no idea what TNT's expectations are...but anything +/- 1 million viewers sounds like a success right now to me.

AEW has way more momentum than NXT.


----------



## EMGESP

Man, some people are glutton for punishment and just can't appreciate something new. They are so use to the WWE product that anything different feels weird for them. 200K not coming back for week 2 is kinda shitty especially when that debut was such a good show. What the hell does AEW have to do to get more people on board, they are already giving us awesome content. What do we need some dorks throwing pancakes in the audience or something?


----------



## The Wood

Ghost Catcus said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, what do you think they were sold on? “Hey, let’s get WWE-lite?”
> 
> 900k was what I remember the average for the network being. It doesn’t take fucking Einstein to work out they don’t want that number going down with programming they are paying for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -It doesn't matter what sort of wrestling they were sold on, no major network in their right mind is going to view what has been a declining market for 20 years, see that the only true force left in said market, which has an established brand and presence and yet has barely been able to exceed 2 million views, will somehow magically think that a brand new promotion without any of that history is going to somehow pull near those numbers right of the bat. It certainly doesn't take fucking Einstein to understand this sort of logic, and yet here I am having to repeat it to you twice.
> 
> -As for the ratings, here are the last six highest Wednesday ratings on TNT before AEW debuted.
> 
> Sept. 25=Beauty and the Beast - 678,000
> 
> Sept. 18=UEFA Champion's League - 304,000
> 
> Sept. 11=TNT didn't even register in the top 150, and to do that, their 18-49 share, which is how the ratings are sorted by default, was below .04.
> 
> Sept. 4=Again, no top 150, meaning their rating was below .05. For a frame of reference, of the bottom 10 shows in the 150, five of them had ratings in the 100,000s.
> 
> Aug 28th= B/R Football Matchday - 128,000
> 
> August 21st = Again, no top 150
> 
> From the three nights recorded, they average 370,000. If you add in the three nights they didn't break the top 150 and landed in either the 100,000s or the 200,000s, there's no chance they break 300,000 on average for a Wednesday.
> 
> If AEW levels out at 900,000, they'll triple that. If they grow their viewership over time, quadruple it.
Click to expand...

It does matter what they were sold on. Businesses make agreements. There are expectations to deliver. If they were trying to capture a disenchanted WWE audience or lapsed wrestling fan, which seems absolutely bloody likely, this isn’t going so crash hot. 

Sorry, I misspoke, I was talking about the prime time average. Those seem remarkably low, considering the average is purported to be way higher than that, but I suspect that incorporates +3 and +7 which pushes things closer to the 800-900k mark and makes TNT the dynamo it is. 

If they were getting 300k for shows, they wouldn’t be worth jack shit as a network.

EDIT: Oh, wait! You were talking about the demos and then stopped that week because when you go back more things start clocking. And you’re comparing the demo share of other shows with AEW’s total number of viewers. Haha, sneaky.


----------



## Corey

I'm not reading all these god forsaken replies, but while it's a little disappointing that the number went down, if we just add the TNT and TruTV ratings together they still earned a 1.14. That's not an _awful_ number by any stretch especially going up against Nats/Dodgers game 5 which I know MANY people were interested in (myself). Plus they're still way ahead of NXT so I'm cool with that. :lol


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Lol people can't have it both ways. People are saying they need more big guys, more stars/names,more promos and shorter matches. Then people like you are saying they need to stop doing things exactly like WWE. What is it then? Lol


You can add more promos, get some variety size wise, and get a few more names without being like WWE.


----------



## The Wood

EMGESP said:


> Man, some people are glutton for punishment and just can't appreciate something new. They are so use to the WWE product that anything different feels weird for them. 200K not coming back for week 2 is kinda shitty especially when that debut was such a good show. What the hell does AEW have to do to get more people on board, they are already giving us awesome content. What do we need some dorks throwing pancakes in the audience or something?


The people enjoying AEW are much more used to WWE, I find. That AEW is so much like them is what makes nauseous and tunes me out.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> You can add more promos, get some variety size wise, and get a few more names without being like WWE.


This week they had in-ring promo with Jericho, promo video for Young Bucks/Private Party etc. They aren't gonna do much more then that. While size thing is a myth WWE has 4 or 5 guys with size and outside of Brock. None of them have even been WWE champion. AEW top guys are just as big as WWE top guys. 


AEW just as smaller midcard guys and talent they have is just fine. Any names they could get won't change anything. The show has been great and getting great reaction. People need to stop trying to make it like WWE show.


----------



## V-Trigger

I ignored the usual suspects but I keep seeing the quotes so I'm just gonna say this.

WWE didn't invent storylines
WWE didn't invent promos
WWE didn't invent faction wars
WWE didn't invent wrestling or owns wrestling.


----------



## Taroostyles

Here's what it boils down to plain and simple without trying to get anyone fired up. 

Everything I see people in here saying is to do things that makes AEW more like the WWE. The whole point of AEW is to be completely different from WWE in every way.

If you dont get that, then it's just not for you.


----------



## looper007

It was always going to take a dip, so i don't know why some are going on like it's a disaster. If they can keep it to 1 million viewers or over a week then they should be fine. Nothing wrong with the product at all, they had two great shows back to back just up to the audience to come to it. It's going to be a long time before it's ratings settle down.

I just ignore the usually suspects who shit on AEW weekly. And fan's wanting it to be more like WWE, are you guys crazy we want a different product cause WWE is shitty at the moment. God helps us.


----------



## Ghost Catcus

The Wood said:


> It does matter what they were sold on. Businesses make agreements. There are expectations to deliver. If they were trying to capture a disenchanted WWE audience or lapsed wrestling fan, which seems absolutely bloody likely, this isn’t going so crash hot.
> 
> Sorry, I misspoke, I was talking about the prime time average. Those seem remarkably low, considering the average is purported to be way higher than that, but I suspect that incorporates +3 and +7 which pushes things closer to the 800-900k mark and makes TNT the dynamo it is.
> 
> If they were getting 300k for shows, they wouldn’t be worth jack shit as a network.


-Expectations are exactly the point, man, and you seem to be grossly overestimating what those expectations are. Businesses suss out potential investments, which means they do market research. Tony Khan can try to sell them the idea of the best damn product in the world, he can promise them the moon, and i'm sure his media connections helped a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that the state of wrestling is evident for everyone to see, and you can be certain TNT knows that quite well. They would be lunatics to believe that a new, unheard of wrestling show could pull close to WWEs numbers on a consistent basis in today's market. TNT's willingness to take on AEW in today's wrestling climate makes zero sense if they're expecting them to compete with RAW or Smackdown day 1. If their expectations aren't more reasonable, then they're poor businessmen, and considering they are a powerhouse as you say, I severely doubt that is the case.

-The numbers are definitely interesting and seem to fluctuate drastically. I can't say too much more on ratings, but in direct comparison to what was airing on Wednesday nights before AEW started, AEW is crushing that time slot.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I have a headache from all the people already jumping off the bandwagon! It’s like really!


----------



## The Wood

V-Trigger said:


> I ignored the usual suspects but I keep seeing the quotes so I'm just gonna say this.
> 
> WWE didn't invent storylines
> WWE didn't invent promos
> WWE didn't invent faction wars
> WWE didn't invent wrestling or owns wrestling.


What the fuck is this even about? 



Taroostyles said:


> Here's what it boils down to plain and simple without trying to get anyone fired up.
> 
> Everything I see people in here saying is to do things that makes AEW more like the WWE. The whole point of AEW is to be completely different from WWE in every way.
> 
> If you dont get that, then it's just not for you.


Who the fuck wants another WWE?! Stop using this to dismiss people who want better pro-wrestling. That doesn’t mean copy WWE. 



Ghost Catcus said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> It does matter what they were sold on. Businesses make agreements. There are expectations to deliver. If they were trying to capture a disenchanted WWE audience or lapsed wrestling fan, which seems absolutely bloody likely, this isn’t going so crash hot.
> 
> Sorry, I misspoke, I was talking about the prime time average. Those seem remarkably low, considering the average is purported to be way higher than that, but I suspect that incorporates +3 and +7 which pushes things closer to the 800-900k mark and makes TNT the dynamo it is.
> 
> If they were getting 300k for shows, they wouldn’t be worth jack shit as a network.
> 
> 
> 
> -Expectations are exactly the point, man, and you seem to be grossly overestimating what those expectations are. Businesses suss out potential investments, which means they do market research. Tony Khan can try to sell them the idea of the best damn product in the world, he can promise them the moon, and i'm sure his media connections helped a bit, but that doesn't change the fact that the state of wrestling is evident for everyone to see, and you can be certain TNT knows that quite well. They would be lunatics to believe that a new, unheard of wrestling show could pull close to WWEs numbers on a consistent basis in today's market. TNT's willingness to take on AEW in today's wrestling climate makes zero sense if they're expecting them to compete with RAW or Smackdown day 1. If their expectations aren't more reasonable, then they're poor businessmen, and considering they are a powerhouse as you say, I severely doubt that is the case.
> 
> -The numbers are definitely interesting and seem to fluctuate drastically. I can't say too much more on ratings, but in direct comparison to what was airing on Wednesday nights before AEW started, AEW is crushing that time slot.
Click to expand...

I realized too late you were talking demos. I hadn’t had my coffee yet. Is Wednesday notoriously shit for television? TNT doesn’t make the top lists because I think most of their viewership must be older, I think. Going back further they get a few things in with the younger demo. Nothing like AEW, but there are plenty of things that surpass it in viewership, I’m guessing. 

I think people conflate wrestling with WWE too much. WWE doesn’t reflect the health of wrestling. That is what I imagine the pitch to be. If you’re looking at the health of wrestling by looking at WWE, you’d stay well the fuck away. 

AEW is supposed to be servicing the fans that WWE has lost. There is absolutely no reason you can’t get wrestling fans who don’t watch WWE to watch. That comes from a position that WWE is doing things right and that you can’t do better than them.


----------



## JBLGOAT

Taroostyles said:


> Here's what it boils down to plain and simple without trying to get anyone fired up.
> 
> Everything I see people in here saying is to do things that makes AEW more like the WWE. The whole point of AEW is to be completely different from WWE in every way.
> 
> If you dont get that, then it's just not for you.


Lucha underground was completely different from WWE and it had tons of angles. Though, it did have tons of in ring work with some episodes having zero promos.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> These posts are all just vapid dismissals. None of you have a point and are just projecting.
> 
> Everybody wants AEW to succeed. Everybody. It’s a disaster if they fail.


Simply highlighting every perceived negative and shitting on everything you don’t enjoy is showing us everything we need to say. 

You’re literally parading around this thread because their numbers dropped a bit.


----------



## Saintpat

Some silly posts here.

AEW had a few really good moments on the second show and a few that kinda left me bored.

I don’t like the idea of every show ending with a big mosh pit and I hope that’s not something they think is a good thing to keep up.

As for the ratings, I’d say it is good news for both as they settle in. I think NXT will hover around 800K-1M and AEW will settle at 1-1.1M on average. Both are more than respectable and that’s good for all of us.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> I realized too late you were talking demos. I hadn’t had my coffee yet. Is Wednesday notoriously shit for television? TNT doesn’t make the top lists because I think most of their viewership must be older, I think. Going back further they get a few things in with the younger demo. Nothing like AEW, but there are plenty of things that surpass it in viewership, I’m guessing.
> 
> I think people conflate wrestling with WWE too much. WWE doesn’t reflect the health of wrestling. That is what I imagine the pitch to be. If you’re looking at the health of wrestling by looking at WWE, you’d stay well the fuck away.
> 
> AEW is supposed to be servicing the fans that WWE has lost. There is absolutely no reason you can’t get wrestling fans who don’t watch WWE to watch. That comes from a position that WWE is doing things right and that you can’t do better than them.



There's a reason why AEW had best premiere numbers for TNT in five years. These are TNT top rated shows last year.


Animal Kingdom-.33 in 18-49 with 1.2 million average viewers

Last Ship- .22 in 18-49 with 1.2 million average viewers

I am the Night-.25 in 18-49 with 1.0 million viewers

Claws-.29 in 18-49 with 800,000 viewers



In the past 4 or 5 years these are top rated shows for TNT.


Rizzoli & Isles (ended)	s7	0.58 4.217	

Perception (cancelled)	s3	0.48 2.396	

Major Crimes (ended)	s6	
0.25 -2.148	

Proof (cancelled)	s1	0.31 2.118	

Falling Skies (ended)	s5	0.49 1.973	

Dallas (ended)
.47 1.923

The Alienist (ended)	s1	0.41 1.765	

The Librarians (cancelled)	s4	0.29	-	1.448	

Murder in the First (cancelled)
s3	0.23 1.367	-



So as you can see .46 and 1.14 and .68 and 1.4 were very good numbers for TNT. Most of their content is reruns of old hit tv shows or play older popular movies. So getting AEW cheap because they are brand new company is great deal for them. My guess is next week goes up to .50s in 18-49 and 1.2 to 1.3 million viewers.


----------



## BrahmaBull247

Decent number, it was a good show but they really need to start developing more characters instead of doing a million matches.


----------



## TAC41

Y.2.J said:


> I have no idea what TNT's expectations are...but anything +/- 1 million viewers sounds like a success right now to me.
> 
> AEW has way more momentum than NXT.




Imagine having all this hype and momentum and you can barely beat your competitors C development show by 200,000 viewers. In 2 months, AEW will have lost its momentum and be drawing TNA numbers while Vince laughs his way to the bank. 

And god forbid WWE decides to take NXT off the network and force people to watch it on USA, AEW would immediately pack their bags and head to Tuesday nights. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## The Wood

NXT Only said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> These posts are all just vapid dismissals. None of you have a point and are just projecting.
> 
> Everybody wants AEW to succeed. Everybody. It’s a disaster if they fail.
> 
> 
> 
> Simply highlighting every perceived negative and shitting on everything you don’t enjoy is showing us everything we need to say.
> 
> You’re literally parading around this thread because their numbers dropped a bit.
Click to expand...

We’re talking about the numbers IN THE RATINGS THREAD! 



imthegame19 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I realized too late you were talking demos. I hadn’t had my coffee yet. Is Wednesday notoriously shit for television? TNT doesn’t make the top lists because I think most of their viewership must be older, I think. Going back further they get a few things in with the younger demo. Nothing like AEW, but there are plenty of things that surpass it in viewership, I’m guessing.
> 
> I think people conflate wrestling with WWE too much. WWE doesn’t reflect the health of wrestling. That is what I imagine the pitch to be. If you’re looking at the health of wrestling by looking at WWE, you’d stay well the fuck away.
> 
> AEW is supposed to be servicing the fans that WWE has lost. There is absolutely no reason you can’t get wrestling fans who don’t watch WWE to watch. That comes from a position that WWE is doing things right and that you can’t do better than them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's a reason why AEW had best premiere numbers for TNT in five years. These are TNT top rated shows last year.
> 
> 
> Animal Kingdom-.33 in 18-49 with 1.2 million average viewers
> 
> Last Ship- .22 in 18-49 with 1.2 million average viewers
> 
> I am the Night-.25 in 18-49 with 1.0 million viewers
> 
> Claws-.29 in 18-49 with 800,000 viewers
> 
> 
> 
> In the past 4 or 5 years these are top rated shows for TNT.
> 
> 
> Rizzoli & Isles (ended)	s7	0.58 4.217
> 
> Perception (cancelled)	s3	0.48 2.396
> 
> Major Crimes (ended)	s6
> 0.25 -2.148
> 
> Proof (cancelled)	s1	0.31 2.118
> 
> Falling Skies (ended)	s5	0.49 1.973
> 
> Dallas (ended)
> .47 1.923
> 
> The Alienist (ended)	s1	0.41 1.765
> 
> The Librarians (cancelled)	s4	0.29	-	1.448
> 
> Murder in the First (cancelled)
> s3	0.23 1.367	-
> 
> 
> 
> So as you can see .46 and 1.14 and .68 and 1.4 were very good numbers for TNT. Most of their content is reruns of old hit tv shows or play older popular movies. So getting AEW cheap because they are brand new company is great deal for them. My guess is next week goes up to .50s in 18-49 and 1.2 to 1.3 million viewers.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I’ve seen those numbers before. They’re good, but you don’t want to drop too far below that with the stigma wrestling has with advertising, is my point.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> Stop the ad hominem and address the points, Beatles. You’re saying nothing but “oh, here is the criticism.” Yes. I am allowed. And I provided arguments, and not doing what you are doing. You are dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s very true, and this is a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in terms of TNT vs. NXT, but how many watched on the WWE Network?
> 
> 
> 
> They used to, but do they still? Don’t get me wrong, having a better demo rating is still important, but how small is that portion? What do advertisers see when they see a 0.44 demo rating in 2019?
> 
> Meltzer acts like it is king. But if TV is an older medium, then maybe winning older people is more important to advertisers *on this medium?*
> 
> We also don’t know how much of the demo is watching on NXT. If it is just a couple of hundred thousand, which isn’t out the realms of possibility, then it’s possible that there isn’t actually a major discrepancy.
> 
> I mean, neither number is killer, but the idea that Meltzer is perpetuating is that AEW tests better with younger fans. Well, we know that about TNT. But they could watch AEW on TNT and then NXT on the Network they already had. How many subscribers to the WWE Network are over 50?
> 
> 
> 
> You are taking what they are doing out of context. Yes, viewers have decreased. *That is the issue.*
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think they’ve got a couple of months?
> 
> 
> 
> Then they should stop doing things exactly like WWE.


ME dishonest?! Excuse me?! No. I'm not having that. Perhaps we can settle this in a DM if it bothers you, but I will not sit here and be made into the bad guy when all I am doing from my estimation is pointing out the rude way you act toward anyone who disagrees! I told you this was coming and I can tell this going to be unpleasant from here on in. How did we even GET HERE?!!! HOW DID YOU GO FROM WHERE YOU WERE TO--THIS?


----------



## looper007

Beatles123 said:


> ME dishonest?! Excuse me?! No. I'm not having that. Perhaps we can settle this in a DM if it bothers you, but I will not sit here and be made into the bad guy when all I am doing from my estimation is pointing out the rude way you act toward anyone who disagrees! I told you this was coming and I can tell this going to be unpleasant from here on in. How did we even GET HERE?!!! HOW DID YOU GO FROM WHERE YOU WERE TO--THIS?


Just ignore him, he's one of the AEW trolls on here along with a few names. Who say's "I want AEW to succeed" but all he does is crap on the product. He's looking for a reaction just put him on ignore.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> This week they had in-ring promo with Jericho, promo video for Young Bucks/Private Party etc. They aren't gonna do much more then that. While size thing is a myth WWE has 4 or 5 guys with size and outside of Brock. None of them have even been WWE champion. AEW top guys are just as big as WWE top guys.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW just as smaller midcard guys and talent they have is just fine. Any names they could get won't change anything. The show has been great and getting great reaction. People need to stop trying to make it like WWE show.


But the folk you're talking to are making it clear that a singular promo isn't enough for them. WWE is also mocked for it's lack of size being pushed with AEW having less size it makes sense they're also getting that knock. 

The shows have been enjoyable. But it makes no sense to take this stance as if they literally have to do everything the opposite of WWE, that would just be silly and destructive. They should obviously avoid shit like making fans feel unappreciated. But just doing the opposite to avoid doing something like WWE is silly.


----------



## fabi1982

Quick question, does the re-run situation right after the original is stopping with next week? Or does Turner keeps the re-run right after?

If not, does that mean that the 350k this week from the 10pm slot may watch at 8pm? I saw on Twitter that someone posted "drop from 1.8m to 1.5m", so calculating with the reruns, so what happens when they now go to the 8pm 1m mark next week and dont have this truTV and the rerun?

I dont hope this happens, but there is a slight possibility. I for one was shocked to see the initial 1m (without truTV - how does that work, do they show advertising in here) viewers, really hope they dont press the panic button now, as I dont think that baseball has any impact. Although they had a 1 in the demo good for advertisers, doesnt mean that these young people actually would have watched wrestling with no baseball.

Hope we will se an increase next week, if not they should be worried.


----------



## patpat

Boldgerg said:


> Except it's not 500k, is it.


 it's incredible, some say 500k others say 800k 
The actual number is 269k drop with them doing 1m140k viewers against a strong MLB game that ate one of their main cities ( LA and Washington). But the overreaction and people will go out of their way to ignore the trutv numbers since it doesnt fit the narrative.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This thread is funny - I go to sleep and wake up with a 1000 more posts 

Here is the most likely truth

1.4 drop to 1.1 is not great. Cody, Bucks and rest will feel bad about it. TK will most likely rally them and say it isn’t too bad, and is expected and let’s get going for next week. Because that is how most businesses work that I have been a part of.

And they’ll rally, and double down on what they believe in - the product that got 1.14 people to come back - which is the right move.

Absolutely the right move

If they were on a wrong path, it would have reverted a lot more - as nobody who disliked it was checking it out this week ‘just to see’

So, while disappointing, especially since the show was better this week than last - it is hardly a train smash


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

You guys have *got* to stop biting the bait. It's your fault if you keep allowing the usual folks to garner a reaction on you. Just ignore them. 

Again, everyone predicted (for the most part) a drop in the AEW and NXT ratings. That is par for the course, especially for a new company like AEW. It was clear that the first week for Dynamite was for interest and they still kept the rating above a million (additional viewers or not). If going by reports that TNT allegedly wanted 500K as the threshold for AEW, then they have succeeded above that two weeks in a row. TNT, in that sense, have to be happy and will look to be behind AEW going forward. A month from now when baseball ends and basketball starts, we will see how much standing AEW will have. 

If anything, NXT has a lot to worry about more. They have dropped every week since their USA debut and that was with a two week headstart and with the WWE machine behind it. It's the same syndrome Smackdown used to have against RAW. NXT just seems like RAW/SD Yellow. It doesn't stand out all that much, especially compared with AEW. Frankly, NXT has sucked this year and with exception to Riddle, Dream, and maybe Io, there are no stars on that brand. It says a lot that the "young, cool brand" has an average viewership of 55 years old. 

A predictable overreaction from the concern trolls aside, AEW will be fine as long as they provide quality shows every week while not undermining the fanbase. For the sake of pro wrestling moving forward, AEW will have to succeed long term and I think everyone there is aware of that. The small minority aren't (shocker) but the majority do.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Not the best result, but hopefully things get better, I feel like this show did a fantastic job of making people want to see Week 3, and with no MLB, hopefully it's back up. This is a long game, people need to relax.


----------



## patpat

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Not the best result, but hopefully things get better, I feel like this show did a fantastic job of making people want to see Week 3, and with no MLB, hopefully it's back up. This is a long game, people need to relax.


 there is an MLB game next week. It's just not as big as the one that happened this week.( which was a very important game)


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The google ad revenue that WF must be making on this thread  :lenny


----------



## Corey

Next week's show will be going up against either Nats/Cardinals Game 5 of the NLCS (if needed technically) or Yankees/Astros Game 4 of the ALCS. We don't know which one yet but it will definitely continue to affect the ratings I'm sure.


----------



## AEWMoxley

patpat said:


> there is an MLB game next week. It's just not as big as the one that happened this week.( which was a very important game)


Every game will become increasingly more important from here on out. It's playoff time.


----------



## TyAbbotSucks

When did baseball become the Super Bowl? Good lord lol


----------



## Y.2.J

TAC41 said:


> Imagine having all this hype and momentum and you can barely beat your competitors C development show by 200,000 viewers. In 2 months, AEW will have lost its momentum and be drawing TNA numbers while Vince laughs his way to the bank.
> 
> And god forbid WWE decides to take NXT off the network and force people to watch it on USA, AEW would immediately pack their bags and head to Tuesday nights.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:deanfpalm

Dude...

You're comparing a brand new company to a media and sports entertainment giant like WWE.

WWE has decades of more global exposure. WWE has decades of USA Network exposure. The whole point is that NXT isn't a developmental brand anymore, it's a 2-hour show with a TV network deal. If thought AEW would crush NXT in the ratings, well then that's on you...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I am guessing this is +streaming +dvr x 2 weeks?

Even so... pretty impressive


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182705103939104769


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Looks like Texas is doing well.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yep - seems so

Site broke again - good sign


----------



## patpat

Corey said:


> Next week's show will be going up against either Nats/Cardinals Game 5 of the NLCS (if needed technically) or Yankees/Astros Game 4 of the ALCS. We don't know which one yet but it will definitely continue to affect the ratings I'm sure.


 my god I fucking hate baseball lmao, I hope this time it doesnt force them to simulcast on two channels


----------



## patpat

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Looks like Texas is doing well.


 very very well, more than I expected


----------



## virus21

TyAbbotSucks said:


> When did baseball become the Super Bowl? Good lord lol


When football started to suck


----------



## birthday_massacre

imthegame19 said:


> Lol ya last week it was numbers mean nothing it's vs NXT the C show. Now AEW ratings fall as expected(1.2-1.3 is what I thought they would do) even though it was little lower then I thought. It's all sky falling comments. But when you actually look at the tv ratings and compare where AEW ranks against other shows.
> 
> 
> Well it did pretty well still. I will be surprised if it's not up to 1.2-1.3 next week. Because elimination game 5 baseball game with big LA and DC markets did hurt AEW a little bit. Overall fans should be happy with these numbers for two weeks of tv. Considering the company been around for 10 months lol.


Plus AEW beat NXT in the ratings by a lot. Its a joke WWE fanboys are acting like the sky is falling. AEW will be fine


----------



## JustAName

aiden9 said:


> AEW marks are so easily worked up.
> :vince2



Nah you fucked up, noticed how clueless you are and try to pretend you're trolling. Flake.


----------



## TAC41

birthday_massacre said:


> Plus AEW beat NXT in the ratings by a lot. Its a joke WWE fanboys are acting like the sky is falling. AEW will be fine




200,000 viewers is not a lot. If Vince ever decides to pull NXT from the network, AEW would be absolutely fucked. AEW’s only saving grace right now is they are head to head with the C show of WWE that is uploaded to the network in its entirety the very next day. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Corey

TyAbbotSucks said:


> When did baseball become the Super Bowl? Good lord lol


It's playoff baseball, people are watching. Wednesday night's Nats/Dodgers Game 5 did a 5.8 rating. Monday's Nats/Dodgers and Yankees/Twins games both did better than RAW. Dynamite will have to deal with it for a couple more weeks and then they'll be in the driver's seat on Wednesday nights.


----------



## A-C-P

patpat said:


> my god I fucking hate baseball lmao, I hope this time it doesnt force them to simulcast on two channels


The 2 series are split between Turner and FOX so Turner only has the rights to one game and it will be on TBS, so no more worries about any pre emption on TNT


----------



## birthday_massacre

TAC41 said:


> 200,000 viewers is not a lot. If Vince ever decides to pull NXT from the network, AEW would be absolutely fucked. AEW’s only saving grace right now is they are head to head with the C show of WWE that is uploaded to the network in its entirety the very next day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They beat them by like 25% , yes that is a lot. And the WWE C show LOL NXT is the best show the WWE has. Its really their A show. Stop making excuses because NXT is geting crushed by AEW

And why would AEW ber fucked if NXT was pulled from the network? You are just making shit up


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah the notion that WWE pulling NXT from the network would somehow effect AEW is beyond laughable. 

You think that theres some audience out there that watches on the network and not on USA? They're the same people, literally. I bet that almost all of NXTs audience are also network subscribers. 

Bitter WWE fans continue to move the goal posts. They claim that AEW beating NXT is not an achievement but if it were flipped good lord you would never hear the end of it. 

So does AEW getting higher ratings matter not? Cause I sure see a lot of people coming in and making all these excuses why it doesnt, seems strange to spend so much attention on something so trivial.


----------



## imthegame19

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah the notion that WWE pulling NXT from the network would somehow effect AEW is beyond laughable.
> 
> You think that theres some audience out there that watches on the network and not on USA? They're the same people, literally. I bet that almost all of NXTs audience are also network subscribers.
> 
> Bitter WWE fans continue to move the goal posts. They claim that AEW beating NXT is not an achievement but if it were flipped good lord you would never hear the end of it.
> 
> So does AEW getting higher ratings matter not? Cause I sure see a lot of people coming in and making all these excuses why it doesnt, seems strange to spend so much attention on something so trivial.


Lol yeah it's terrible excuse. The theory that fans are watching AEW Wednesday and waiting to see NXT on network on Thursday doesn't make sense. Not when TNT has reply of Dynamite on right afterwards. If anything AEW is at disadvantage now because it's giving people a reason to watch NXT from 7-9 then AEW from 9-11. Which is why AEW direct reply numbers are doing 363,000 to 500,000 viewers. Those are probably people who watched NXT. You take away that option and AEW could grow and NXT fall more.


----------



## The Wood

Beatles123 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop the ad hominem and address the points, Beatles. You’re saying nothing but “oh, here is the criticism.” Yes. I am allowed. And I provided arguments, and not doing what you are doing. You are dishonest.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s very true, and this is a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Not in terms of TNT vs. NXT, but how many watched on the WWE Network?
> 
> 
> 
> They used to, but do they still? Don’t get me wrong, having a better demo rating is still important, but how small is that portion? What do advertisers see when they see a 0.44 demo rating in 2019?
> 
> Meltzer acts like it is king. But if TV is an older medium, then maybe winning older people is more important to advertisers *on this medium?*
> 
> We also don’t know how much of the demo is watching on NXT. If it is just a couple of hundred thousand, which isn’t out the realms of possibility, then it’s possible that there isn’t actually a major discrepancy.
> 
> I mean, neither number is killer, but the idea that Meltzer is perpetuating is that AEW tests better with younger fans. Well, we know that about TNT. But they could watch AEW on TNT and then NXT on the Network they already had. How many subscribers to the WWE Network are over 50?
> 
> 
> 
> You are taking what they are doing out of context. Yes, viewers have decreased. *That is the issue.*
> 
> 
> 
> What makes you think they’ve got a couple of months?
> 
> 
> 
> Then they should stop doing things exactly like WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> ME dishonest?! Excuse me?! No. I'm not having that. Perhaps we can settle this in a DM if it bothers you, but I will not sit here and be made into the bad guy when all I am doing from my estimation is pointing out the rude way you act toward anyone who disagrees! I told you this was coming and I can tell this going to be unpleasant from here on in. How did we even GET HERE?!!! HOW DID YOU GO FROM WHERE YOU WERE TO--THIS?
Click to expand...




looper007 said:


> Beatles123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ME dishonest?! Excuse me?! No. I'm not having that. Perhaps we can settle this in a DM if it bothers you, but I will not sit here and be made into the bad guy when all I am doing from my estimation is pointing out the rude way you act toward anyone who disagrees! I told you this was coming and I can tell this going to be unpleasant from here on in. How did we even GET HERE?!!! HOW DID YOU GO FROM WHERE YOU WERE TO--THIS?
> 
> 
> 
> You know why you always say it’s my attitude (which you’re projecting big time, by the way)? It’s because you don’t have a retort and you don’t like it. You always go to the ad hominem because it’s easy for you. Yes, that is dishonesty by definition.
> 
> 
> 
> WINNING said:
> 
> 
> 
> You guys have *got* to stop biting the bait. It's your fault if you keep allowing the usual folks to garner a reaction on you. Just ignore them.
> 
> Again, everyone predicted (for the most part) a drop in the AEW and NXT ratings. That is par for the course, especially for a new company like AEW. It was clear that the first week for Dynamite was for interest and they still kept the rating above a million (additional viewers or not). If going by reports that TNT allegedly wanted 500K as the threshold for AEW, then they have succeeded above that two weeks in a row. TNT, in that sense, have to be happy and will look to be behind AEW going forward. A month from now when baseball ends and basketball starts, we will see how much standing AEW will have.
> 
> If anything, NXT has a lot to worry about more. They have dropped every week since their USA debut and that was with a two week headstart and with the WWE machine behind it. It's the same syndrome Smackdown used to have against RAW. NXT just seems like RAW/SD Yellow. It doesn't stand out all that much, especially compared with AEW. Frankly, NXT has sucked this year and with exception to Riddle, Dream, and maybe Io, there are no stars on that brand. It says a lot that the "young, cool brand" has an average viewership of 55 years old.
> 
> A predictable overreaction from the concern trolls aside, AEW will be fine as long as they provide quality shows every week while not undermining the fanbase. For the sake of pro wrestling moving forward, AEW will have to succeed long term and I think everyone there is aware of that. The small minority aren't (shocker) but the majority do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, your bullshit accusations of trolling aside, are you sure you’re not conflating “TNT are okay with” with “TNT are expecting.” I’ve never read that they were expecting a number that small. I’ve heard Meltzer say they’re *okay* with that number, because allegedly B/R Live subs. But I’m buying some wonky math and low goal-setting on that. TNT want a hot property. Don’t try and spin it otherwise.
> 
> Right now, they’re fine. But this is when they are hot. Imagine what happens if they go cold.
> 
> And I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but NXT has been very patient with its stories and overusing angles. Their subtlety has likely been deliberate while AEW bursts out the gate. You wait and see how things are around the bend. They haven’t played too many of their cards at all.
> 
> AEW have ended in a brawl twice. They can’t use that to the same effect again. Jericho is cutting promos. Interesting. Oh, Jericho is still cutting promos? That is...kinda cool. They can only go to Jericho vs. Cody in a heated program for the first time once.
> 
> People are really mistaking NXT’s patience with impotence, I think. And we shall see. Call me a troll then. ?
> 
> 
> 
> Y.2.J said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TAC41 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine having all this hype and momentum and you can barely beat your competitors C development show by 200,000 viewers. In 2 months, AEW will have lost its momentum and be drawing TNA numbers while Vince laughs his way to the bank.
> 
> And god forbid WWE decides to take NXT off the network and force people to watch it on USA, AEW would immediately pack their bags and head to Tuesday nights.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/OVXKiIw.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Dean Facepalm" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Dude...
> 
> You're comparing a brand new company to a media and sports entertainment giant like WWE.
> 
> WWE has decades of more global exposure. WWE has decades of USA Network exposure. The whole point is that NXT isn't a developmental brand anymore, it's a 2-hour show with a TV network deal. If thought AEW would crush NXT in the ratings, well then that's on you...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Why does everyone think “brand new” means they can’t have viewers? Do people expect a show to do better in its later seasons than its earlier ones? There is no guarantee, and I doubt there should be an expectation, that they are going to grow an audience beyond the initial splash they make after being “wrestling on TNT after 18 years.”
> 
> 
> 
> birthday_massacre said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TAC41 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 200,000 viewers is not a lot. If Vince ever decides to pull NXT from the network, AEW would be absolutely fucked. AEW’s only saving grace right now is they are head to head with the C show of WWE that is uploaded to the network in its entirety the very next day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They beat them by like 25% , yes that is a lot. And the WWE C show LOL NXT is the best show the WWE has. Its really their A show. Stop making excuses because NXT is geting crushed by AEW
> 
> And why would AEW ber fucked if NXT was pulled from the network? You are just making shit up
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lol, when NXT is beating AEW by 25%, will you also be ignoring how small that viewership is then? 5 is 25% bigger than 4.
> 
> 
> 
> Taroostyles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah the notion that WWE pulling NXT from the network would somehow effect AEW is beyond laughable.
> 
> You think that theres some audience out there that watches on the network and not on USA? They're the same people, literally. I bet that almost all of NXTs audience are also network subscribers.
> 
> Bitter WWE fans continue to move the goal posts. They claim that AEW beating NXT is not an achievement but if it were flipped good lord you would never hear the end of it.
> 
> So does AEW getting higher ratings matter not? Cause I sure see a lot of people coming in and making all these excuses why it doesnt, seems strange to spend so much attention on something so trivial.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t think that’s a given. I’m sure there are plenty of people who watch NXT on their phone or on a tablet at their convenience on a Thursday when it goes up and catch AEW on the night. I can’t take four hours of wrestling these days. I certainly wouldn’t watch them both on the same night, so catching one on the Network would make sense (if I had it).
> 
> I mean, it’s possible the Network numbers have eroded since the USA deal. But given that PPV through traditional metrics and streaming for AEW was basically split, it wouldn’t shock me if NXT virtually doubled on the Network either. It would surprise me if it were that steep.
> 
> It would help if WWE released the domestic numbers. Which they wouldn’t even if they were winning, because of the game they are playing.
> 
> But if you want to disqualify that speculation, then I would like to know how many of the TruTV viewers were unique. Would you put it past hardcore fans to have it going twice? Or to record it on Tru in case it wasn’t live on TNT, which it was?
> 
> I’m happy to take the 1.14 number at face value, because whatever, but it is important to keep in mind that I doubt the WWE Network number for NXT is 0.
Click to expand...


----------



## Joe Gill

[email protected] anyone who thinks TNT is upset with the ratings so far. Do you have any idea how much money USA and FOX are paying for the rights to WWE? Its literally billions of dollars. TNT is only paying for some of the production costs and they are splitting the revenue which means TNT is going to make money off the deal. USA and Fox are likely to lose a boatload of money. AEW is also doing relatively well in the most important demos 18-49.... looking at total viewers is deceptive since advertisers arent willing to pay as much to show ads to seniors. 

So far AEW has put on a great product with engaged fans and have over a million fans tuning in and watching their product. They are in great shape right now.


----------



## patpat

Last game was rough in baseball and hurt them. But the ctisicism for their shows are heavily positive so far. They need to keep this keep perfecting the product no panic move because this number( 1.140 m against mlb ) isnt atrocious.
Keep building the good will with fans. They will rise back. It's just a 269k loss, putting on a great product over and over and building new guys like darby and sammy is the right way to go long term


----------



## The Wood

Joe Gill said:


> [email protected] anyone who thinks TNT is upset with the ratings so far. Do you have any idea how much money USA and FOX are paying for the rights to WWE? Its literally billions of dollars. TNT is only paying for some of the production costs and they are splitting the revenue which means TNT is going to make money off the deal. USA and Fox are likely to lose a boatload of money. AEW is also doing relatively well in the most important demos 18-49.... looking at total viewers is deceptive since advertisers arent willing to pay as much to show ads to seniors.
> 
> So far AEW has put on a great product with engaged fans and have over a million fans tuning in and watching their product. They are in great shape right now.


No one is saying they are upset _now_. This is only the second week though. If they drop too much more, they might be. 

Lol, do you know how much production is? In 2016 it cost WWE $880k to run an episode of Raw. For 50 shows a year, that’s $44 million. It’s nowhere near what WWE is getting, but it’s a bit disingenuous to minimalize “production costs” for AEW and emphasize “billions” for WWE.


----------



## Taroostyles

Next week will be very telling. They have their 1st world title match on tv booked with their biggest star.

I think if they do under 1 million next then you could say its atleast concerning that they went from 1.4 to under a million in 2 weeks.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> Next week will be very telling. They have their 1st world title match on tv booked with their biggest star.
> 
> I think if they do under 1 million next then you could say its atleast concerning that they went from 1.4 to under a million in 2 weeks.


I agree with this. It just depends whether you want to act or react.


----------



## Y.2.J

The Wood said:


> Why does everyone think “brand new” means they can’t have viewers? Do people expect a show to do better in its later seasons than its earlier ones? There is no guarantee, and I doubt there should be an expectation, that they are going to grow an audience beyond the initial splash they make after being “wrestling on TNT after 18 years.”


That's true. Brand new doesn't guarantee growth.
I just think if you take WWE as a reference point and the current landscape of professional wrestling...if people were expecting 3-5M+ viewers, that's crazy. 

It was one of the best debuting shows for TNT...I guess the moral of the story is lets wait and see how things go.

I'm not even a AEW solo fanboy...I'm enjoying both shows right now. But I think a bigger sample size is more fair before criticizing Dynamite's viewership.


----------



## Taroostyles

I just dont think it's fair to compare a pro wrestling show to a sitcom or a drama at all. 

Raw was on the air for 5 years before it hits its peak, Nitro even took a year before the NWO stuff hit and then another year til it peaked. 

The things that draw viewers into something like pro wrestling take time to establish, it's totally different than traditional scripted primetime tv. 

Like right now we are just learning about who Darby, MJF, Page etc are, imagine after a year on tv?


----------



## Mango13

So what ended up being the rating for this week?


----------



## RapShepard

Mango13 said:


> So what ended up being the rating for this week?


A 1.04 or something on TNT and a 1.14 or so if you add TNT and TruTV (was a simucast)


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> looper007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You know why you always say it’s my attitude (which you’re projecting big time, by the way)? It’s because you don’t have a retort and you don’t like it. You always go to the ad hominem because it’s easy for you. Yes, that is dishonesty by definition.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, your bullshit accusations of trolling aside, are you sure you’re not conflating “TNT are okay with” with “TNT are expecting.” I’ve never read that they were expecting a number that small. I’ve heard Meltzer say they’re *okay* with that number, because allegedly B/R Live subs. But I’m buying some wonky math and low goal-setting on that. TNT want a hot property. Don’t try and spin it otherwise.
> 
> Right now, they’re fine. But this is when they are hot. Imagine what happens if they go cold.
> 
> And I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but NXT has been very patient with its stories and overusing angles. Their subtlety has likely been deliberate while AEW bursts out the gate. You wait and see how things are around the bend. They haven’t played too many of their cards at all.
> 
> AEW have ended in a brawl twice. They can’t use that to the same effect again. Jericho is cutting promos. Interesting. Oh, Jericho is still cutting promos? That is...kinda cool. They can only go to Jericho vs. Cody in a heated program for the first time once.
> 
> People are really mistaking NXT’s patience with impotence, I think. And we shall see. Call me a troll then. ?
> 
> 
> 
> Why does everyone think “brand new” means they can’t have viewers? Do people expect a show to do better in its later seasons than its earlier ones? There is no guarantee, and I doubt there should be an expectation, that they are going to grow an audience beyond the initial splash they make after being “wrestling on TNT after 18 years.”
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, when NXT is beating AEW by 25%, will you also be ignoring how small that viewership is then? 5 is 25% bigger than 4.
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t think that’s a given. I’m sure there are plenty of people who watch NXT on their phone or on a tablet at their convenience on a Thursday when it goes up and catch AEW on the night. I can’t take four hours of wrestling these days. I certainly wouldn’t watch them both on the same night, so catching one on the Network would make sense (if I had it).
> 
> I mean, it’s possible the Network numbers have eroded since the USA deal. But given that PPV through traditional metrics and streaming for AEW was basically split, it wouldn’t shock me if NXT virtually doubled on the Network either. It would surprise me if it were that steep.
> 
> It would help if WWE released the domestic numbers. Which they wouldn’t even if they were winning, because of the game they are playing.
> 
> But if you want to disqualify that speculation, then I would like to know how many of the TruTV viewers were unique. Would you put it past hardcore fans to have it going twice? Or to record it on Tru in case it wasn’t live on TNT, which it was?
> 
> I’m happy to take the 1.14 number at face value, because whatever, but it is important to keep in mind that I doubt the WWE Network number for NXT is 0.
> 
> 
> 
> I say its your attitude because it is. I'd be dishonest if I said it wasn't. I'm not the only one that has that impression of uou. Are you going to call them dishonest too? Further, what incentive do I have to debate you on anything when you'll just call me wrong LIKE YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW!!
Click to expand...


----------



## deepelemblues

calm down john this yoko aint worth it


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> I just dont think it's fair to compare a pro wrestling show to a sitcom or a drama at all.
> 
> Raw was on the air for 5 years before it hits its peak, Nitro even took a year before the NWO stuff hit and then another year til it peaked.
> 
> The things that draw viewers into something like pro wrestling take time to establish, it's totally different than traditional scripted primetime tv.
> 
> Like right now we are just learning about who Darby, MJF, Page etc are, imagine after a year on tv?


It's likely they will be overexposed and people will be likely be "over" them. There is no guarantee that they will grow into people's consciousnesses more and more -- especially with fewer and fewer people watching _because of the show they are on_. You can get something over by six weeks. There's this "wait and see, wait and see" approach to wrestling that I just don't think works. I don't get why people think they can have years of cold television and then click their fingers and not have a harder uphill battle than they have debuting now. 



Beatles123 said:


> I say its your attitude because it is. I'd be dishonest if I said it wasn't. I'm not the only one that has that impression of uou. Are you going to call them dishonest too? Further, what incentive do I have to debate you on anything when you'll just call me wrong LIKE YOU'RE DOING RIGHT NOW!!


My point is this is a bullshit cop-out. I can say your attitude sucks too. Anyone can do that. It's bullshit you make up in your head because you don't like my perceived tone. But I can say that about yours with just as much validity. Except when you say something on a discussion board, I can discuss it. Then you've got nothing except saying my attitude sucks. A lot of people do that here because they don't like AEW's flaws being pointed out, and it hurts their feelings when they can't come up with a good response. 

It's fine to enjoy AEW. That doesn't mean everyone has to, nor does it mean it's good, nor does it mean it is working. And you guys get so upset when the last two are addressed. And that's when you get people like you attacking people's attitudes instead of the points and WINNING and V-Trigger falsely identifying people as trolls (which is downright insulting and says something about their character, honestly, but most people just brush it off because they see through it), and labelling people "AEWWE fans," whatever the fuck that means, because WINNING has explained it and it still doesn't make any sense. This is demonstrable. They're defensive apologetics and it's borderline delusional. And yes, they are dishonest when they attack people instead of the subjects being discussed. 

The fact is: AEW lost viewers from their debut to week two. More than most people thought and this "hot start" didn't turn out so. Their ratings might skyrocket next week after Tony Khan writes something on the moon. But people who are saying "Hmm, wow, maybe that stuff isn't working?" aren't doomsayers. And the people who said "Maybe some of these approaches aren't the best?" are entitled to feel validated when their concern about our best chance at an alternative in wrestling for 18 fucking years is validated. 

So take your AEWWE, shove it up your collective asses, stop bitching and calling people trolls and hope that if AEW's self-indulgent shit doesn't have widespread enough appeal, that they have the common sense to adopt a different strategy, and _that there is one to adopt at that point_. 



Y.2.J said:


> That's true. Brand new doesn't guarantee growth.
> I just think if you take WWE as a reference point and the current landscape of professional wrestling...if people were expecting 3-5M+ viewers, that's crazy.
> 
> It was one of the best debuting shows for TNT...I guess the moral of the story is lets wait and see how things go.
> 
> I'm not even a AEW solo fanboy...I'm enjoying both shows right now. But I think a bigger sample size is more fair before criticizing Dynamite's viewership.


Thanks for being reasonable. It's nice to see on here. 

Brand new doesn't guarantee growth, you're right. What irks me is when people shrug their shoulders and say "they're new, what do you expect?" This whole company is based off mounting frustrating with a virtual Vince McMahon monopoly for 18 years. And even before that, WCW stunk up the joint for a long time and a lot of people hated the WWF anyway. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about wrestling fans is just how many of them don't like Vince's shit and how many of them are out there if they are presented with something that doesn't insult their intelligence. 

The number of people who have stopped watching wrestling in the United States is way more plentiful than the audience that still watches. And they are still alive and can still be reached. Now, some are probably done with wrestling forever, because it insulted them, broke their heart or simply stopped being cool. But there are people who, if they saw a serious presentation that didn't overwhelm them with nonsense on the TV, might give it a shot again -- especially if it doesn't have the WWF/E involved. But AEW is constantly and consistently doing the things that turned people off in the first place, and moreover, Cody has outright said "Well, they're not real fans." Yes, they were. They cared enough that when it got bad they couldn't fucking stomach it anymore.

They try to sell you on the emotion of Shawn Spears turning on Cody Rhodes, and in the post-show conference have The Bucks talk about _rigging the chair._ Why the fuck would you undermine the own tension of your stories? This is 2000 WCW shit, with Shiavone being confused when something happens that isn't in his formats. It is basically the exact same fucking thing that helped sink WCW. They have guys that don't know how to throw working punches. There are plenty of dudes sitting in a pub that might see AEW on a TV and think "pussies." There are your stars. You have guys who don't even try to win matches, which means obviously that winning isn't important, so why the fuck are they having matches in the first place? _It undermines everything._ This is the second straight week in a row that participants in a match were attacked in front of a referee and the ref did jack and shit. Now, it's not as egregious as Hell in a Cell, but it falls under the same category of "How the fuck is this even happening?!" That turns people off. I'm sorry, but it does. 

My concern (and yes, it is concern), is that once the perception of AEW is set, then it is fixed. TNA is never coming back, no matter how many channels Anthem buys. Perception becomes reality for so many people. If AEW becomes another failed star of a promotion, it is done. And I am worried that will mean no one else will give it a shot, because smart Tony Khan who is a wrestling fan couldn't do it. Surely he wouldn't have made mistakes? And then you get Vince doing whatever the fuck Vince wants. Forever. They're so small, comparatively, despite this alleged popularity, that he's still doing that anyway. Obviously you can't extrapolate everything from a few weeks, but you also can't wait until you've turned people off forever either. The timing of making some serious changes needs to happen while perception is still malleable. A lot of people here know they will keep giving it chances, so it's fine for them, but if this thing is going to get proper big, then timing is actually imperative. 

It'll be interesting to see next week. They could go up. I'm doubting it at this point though, especially with the hook for episode three essentially being the hook for episode two. Jericho formed his group week one in a brawl week one, then the formed group brawled week two. If people were interested in the formation, then I don't know why they would be interested in seeing them brawl again. But we'll see.


----------



## The Wood

deepelemblues said:


> calm down john this yoko aint worth it


Some more great insight. More dismissing and y'all keep missing.

Keep huddling around each other whispering reassurances that you're the guys with the great attitudes.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Some interesting quarter hour data.

The end of the Bucks vs Private Party match + the Inner Circle promo lost 44,000 viewers. Allin vs Havoc match *lost 196,000 viewers.* It's a very hard argument to make that Allin is a "star." People in another thread were acting like he's already a star just because he gets pops.

The article outlines the fact that the show gained more viewers throughout the night. I guess that started with the women's tag match, which increased viewership by 58,000. But one of the more surprising things is that a cold match featuring Moxley and a jobber with no fans not only maintained, but added 27,000 viewers on top of that. This is why I suggested that AEW use Moxley at least twice per episode, since he's the only guy who has consistently increased viewership in his segments in both weeks, and it's especially impressive that he did it in a match vs Spears, despite many predicting it would lose viewers like Page vs PAC did last week. Even Jericho lost viewers during the Inner Circle promo, although he did bounce back strong in the main event, which gained 53,000 viewers. 



> The night for Dynamite started with 1,138,000 viewers and ended with 1,036,000. The end of the Bucks vs. Private Party and the Inner Circle interview, a peak in several major markets, ended up losing 44,000 viewers. Allin vs. Havoc lost 196,000 viewers. The Women’s tag gained 58,000 viewers overall. Jon Moxley vs. Shawn Spears gained 27,000 viewers. The main event and post-match gained 53,000 viewers.


https://411mania.com/wrestling/more-detailed-ratings-breakdown-between-aew-dynamite-and-nxt/


----------



## deepelemblues

The Wood said:


> Some more great insight. More dismissing and y'all keep missing.
> 
> Keep huddling around each other whispering reassurances that you're the guys with the great attitudes.


keep baiting



AEWMoxley said:


> Some interesting quarter hour data.
> 
> The end of the Bucks vs Private Party match + the Inner Circle promo lost 44,000 viewers. Allin vs Havoc match *lost 196,000 viewers.* It's a very hard argument to make that Allin is a "star." People in another thread were acting like he's already a star just because he gets pops.
> 
> The article outlines the fact that the show gained more viewers throughout the night. I guess that started with the women's tag match, which increased viewership by 58,000. But one of the more surprising things is that a cold match featuring Moxley and a jobber with no fans not only maintained, but added 27,000 viewers on top of that. This is why I suggested that AEW use Moxley at least twice per episode, since he's the only guy who has consistently increased viewership in his segments in both weeks, and it's especially impressive that he did it in a match vs Spears, despite many predicting it would lose viewers like Page vs PAC did last week. Even Jericho lost viewers during the Inner Circle promo, although he did bounce back strong in the main event, which gained 53,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://411mania.com/wrestling/more-detailed-ratings-breakdown-between-aew-dynamite-and-nxt/


well it should be obvious that mox is their biggest star and should be featured to drive ratings. i think twice a show is good, a promo and a match, or a backstage segment and a match, maybe sometimes a promo, backstage segment, and match, but it cant be the mox show every show


----------



## The Wood

AEWMoxley said:


> Some interesting quarter hour data.
> 
> The end of the Bucks vs Private Party match + the Inner Circle promo lost 44,000 viewers. Allin vs Havoc match *lost 196,000 viewers.* It's a very hard argument to make that Allin is a "star." People in another thread were acting like he's already a star just because he gets pops.
> 
> The article outlines the fact that the show gained more viewers throughout the night. I guess that started with the women's tag match, which increased viewership by 58,000. But one of the more surprising things is that a cold match featuring Moxley and a jobber with no fans not only maintained, but added 27,000 viewers on top of that. This is why I suggested that AEW use Moxley at least twice per episode, since he's the only guy who has consistently increased viewership in his segments in both weeks, and it's especially impressive that he did it in a match vs Spears, despite many predicting it would lose viewers like Page vs PAC did last week. Even Jericho lost viewers during the Inner Circle promo, although he did bounce back strong in the main event, which gained 53,000 viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> https://411mania.com/wrestling/more-detailed-ratings-breakdown-between-aew-dynamite-and-nxt/


Interesting stuff. The women drawing in eyeballs has me kind of convinced that they are, shall we say, a "different audience?" Ahem. It's no surprise to me that the big, big, big loser was Jimmy Havoc vs. Darby Allin. They're both very...geeky. There's something to Allin, but it's not there yet, and he really needs to be brought along. People seemed to tune in, tune out, decide to whack over the girls/or fans of the girls for whatever reason tuned in, stuck around for Moxley and watched the main event. 

Thanks for providing this data.


----------



## The Wood

deepelemblues said:


> keep baiting


Lol, you're the one whose shit has no substance.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Wood said:


> Interesting stuff. The women drawing in eyeballs has me kind of convinced that they are, shall we say, a "different audience?" Ahem. It's no surprise to me that the big, big, big loser was Jimmy Havoc vs. Darby Allin. They're both very...geeky. There's something to Allin, but it's not there yet, and he really needs to be brought along. People seemed to tune in, tune out, decide to whack over the girls/or fans of the girls for whatever reason tuned in, stuck around for Moxley and watched the main event.
> 
> Thanks for providing this data.


Really shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody, but some people here live in a bubble. They were under the impression that guys like Pac and Allin were stars, but it's clear that the wider audience doesn't care about them. Spears vs anybody else would have lost a ton of viewers, too, despite being fellated by people on this forum.


----------



## Bubbly

I also stopped watching during Allin vs Havoc tbh. I couldn't even tell you who won.


----------



## The Wood

AEWMoxley said:


> Really shouldn't have been a surprise to anybody, but some people here live in a bubble. They were under the impression that guys like Pac and Allin were stars, but it's clear that the wider audience doesn't care about them. Spears vs anybody else would have lost a ton of viewers, too, despite being fellated by people on this forum.


PAC is by no means a star, but there's something to him. He's tremendous. But you can't trot him out there like he's someone the fans are heavily invested in at this stage. 

No shock with Allin or Havoc at all. Janela would be the same in that spot. And likely Orange Cassidy, Best Friends and The Dark Order too.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> It's likely they will be overexposed and people will be likely be "over" them. There is no guarantee that they will grow into people's consciousnesses more and more -- especially with fewer and fewer people watching _because of the show they are on_. You can get something over by six weeks. There's this "wait and see, wait and see" approach to wrestling that I just don't think works. I don't get why people think they can have years of cold television and then click their fingers and not have a harder uphill battle than they have debuting now.
> 
> 
> 
> My point is this is a bullshit cop-out. I can say your attitude sucks too. Anyone can do that. It's bullshit you make up in your head because you don't like my perceived tone. But I can say that about yours with just as much validity. Except when you say something on a discussion board, I can discuss it. Then you've got nothing except saying my attitude sucks. A lot of people do that here because they don't like AEW's flaws being pointed out, and it hurts their feelings when they can't come up with a good response.
> 
> It's fine to enjoy AEW. That doesn't mean everyone has to, nor does it mean it's good, nor does it mean it is working. And you guys get so upset when the last two are addressed. And that's when you get people like you attacking people's attitudes instead of the points and WINNING and V-Trigger falsely identifying people as trolls (which is downright insulting and says something about their character, honestly, but most people just brush it off because they see through it), and labelling people "AEWWE fans," whatever the fuck that means, because WINNING has explained it and it still doesn't make any sense. This is demonstrable. They're defensive apologetics and it's borderline delusional. And yes, they are dishonest when they attack people instead of the subjects being discussed.
> 
> The fact is: AEW lost viewers from their debut to week two. More than most people thought and this "hot start" didn't turn out so. Their ratings might skyrocket next week after Tony Khan writes something on the moon. But people who are saying "Hmm, wow, maybe that stuff isn't working?" aren't doomsayers. And the people who said "Maybe some of these approaches aren't the best?" are entitled to feel validated when their concern about our best chance at an alternative in wrestling for 18 fucking years is validated.
> 
> So take your AEWWE, shove it up your collective asses, stop bitching and calling people trolls and hope that if AEW's self-indulgent shit doesn't have widespread enough appeal, that they have the common sense to adopt a different strategy, and _that there is one to adopt at that point_.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for being reasonable. It's nice to see on here.
> 
> Brand new doesn't guarantee growth, you're right. What irks me is when people shrug their shoulders and say "they're new, what do you expect?" This whole company is based off mounting frustrating with a virtual Vince McMahon monopoly for 18 years. And even before that, WCW stunk up the joint for a long time and a lot of people hated the WWF anyway. I think one of the biggest misconceptions about wrestling fans is just how many of them don't like Vince's shit and how many of them are out there if they are presented with something that doesn't insult their intelligence.
> 
> The number of people who have stopped watching wrestling in the United States is way more plentiful than the audience that still watches. And they are still alive and can still be reached. Now, some are probably done with wrestling forever, because it insulted them, broke their heart or simply stopped being cool. But there are people who, if they saw a serious presentation that didn't overwhelm them with nonsense on the TV, might give it a shot again -- especially if it doesn't have the WWF/E involved. But AEW is constantly and consistently doing the things that turned people off in the first place, and moreover, Cody has outright said "Well, they're not real fans." Yes, they were. They cared enough that when it got bad they couldn't fucking stomach it anymore.
> 
> They try to sell you on the emotion of Shawn Spears turning on Cody Rhodes, and in the post-show conference have The Bucks talk about _rigging the chair._ Why the fuck would you undermine the own tension of your stories? This is 2000 WCW shit, with Shiavone being confused when something happens that isn't in his formats. It is basically the exact same fucking thing that helped sink WCW. They have guys that don't know how to throw working punches. There are plenty of dudes sitting in a pub that might see AEW on a TV and think "pussies." There are your stars. You have guys who don't even try to win matches, which means obviously that winning isn't important, so why the fuck are they having matches in the first place? _It undermines everything._ This is the second straight week in a row that participants in a match were attacked in front of a referee and the ref did jack and shit. Now, it's not as egregious as Hell in a Cell, but it falls under the same category of "How the fuck is this even happening?!" That turns people off. I'm sorry, but it does.
> 
> My concern (and yes, it is concern), is that once the perception of AEW is set, then it is fixed. TNA is never coming back, no matter how many channels Anthem buys. Perception becomes reality for so many people. If AEW becomes another failed star of a promotion, it is done. And I am worried that will mean no one else will give it a shot, because smart Tony Khan who is a wrestling fan couldn't do it. Surely he wouldn't have made mistakes? And then you get Vince doing whatever the fuck Vince wants. Forever. They're so small, comparatively, despite this alleged popularity, that he's still doing that anyway. Obviously you can't extrapolate everything from a few weeks, but you also can't wait until you've turned people off forever either. The timing of making some serious changes needs to happen while perception is still malleable. A lot of people here know they will keep giving it chances, so it's fine for them, but if this thing is going to get proper big, then timing is actually imperative.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see next week. They could go up. I'm doubting it at this point though, especially with the hook for episode three essentially being the hook for episode two. Jericho formed his group week one in a brawl week one, then the formed group brawled week two. If people were interested in the formation, then I don't know why they would be interested in seeing them brawl again. But we'll see.


Not all of us are USING that AEW defense. I've not called you a troll. What I am saying is that your posts come across as if you believe ONLY YOU are the one with the right way to look at the situation. Even now, your post drips with it. You seem to think YOU are the victim just because you disagree, but that isn't true. It's how you carry yourself. No niceness, no respect for the other's view, and if they tell you why you're wrong, you ignore it. You do what you claim we do. You just did it now: "Take your AEWWE and shove it" is just as wrong a response as what some have given you. I DO have a problem with you, Wood, but I don't think you're a troll but I DO take great personal offense to some things you have said. You claim its ok to like AEW, but thats not what I get from you at all. You JUDGE those that like AEW as if they are subhuman, and that's what I cab't advocate. Its fine if you don't like AEW, hell, I have issues with them as well, but you seem to pass off anything they do as a negatibe while, yes, you praise a TINY fraction. Its fine if thats where you're at, but you express so in such a needless way that comes across as if you don't want anyone to enjoy things you don't.


----------



## looper007

People really need to stop feeding Woody and his baiting posts at this point.


----------



## Chairshot620

Hasn’t it been at least 5 years since a non-wwe show drew over 1,000,000 viewers on national tv?

Also TNA didn’t go head to head against other wrestling shows for most of its life.

AEW is doing fine so far.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chairshot620 said:


> Hasn’t it been at least 5 years since a non-wwe show drew over 1,000,000 viewers on national tv?
> 
> Also TNA didn’t go head to head against other wrestling shows for most of its life.
> 
> AEW is doing fine so far.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182428184895053824
I feel like that puts it into perspective a bit better, that's only counting TNA ratings on Spike in 2014.


----------



## TheDraw

looper007 said:


> People really need to stop feeding Woody and his baiting posts at this point.


Before I say this I just want to say that I enjoyed both AEW shows although they really need to tone down the match length from here on out.

I just find it funny that there are so many people in this thread white knighting for AEW and calling others trolls in here that are the same people that had no problem venturing into the Impact section to bait despite not even watching the product.

Like I said, I don't have any problems with the two shows AEW did besides the match length...doesn't mean it was the perfect show without some problems here and there. People need to chill and stop freaking out when people point out problems.


----------



## looper007

TheDraw said:


> Before I say this I just want to say that I enjoyed both AEW shows although they really need to tone down the match length from here on out.
> 
> I just find it funny that there are so many people in this thread white knighting for AEW and calling others trolls in here that are the same people that had no problem venturing into the Impact section to bait despite not even watching the product.
> 
> Like I said, I don't have any problems with the two shows AEW did besides the match length...doesn't mean it was the perfect show without some problems here and there. People need to chill and stop freaking out when people point out problems.


no problem with anyone been critical but when these same people come on shit on everything and seem to get enjoyment out of upset people and not once even given the shows any credit. Sorry you are a troll, I've happily get on with a lot of people on here who have some criticisms but when you just look for a reaction then they should be called out for it.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

looper007 said:


> no problem with anyone been critical but when these same people come on shit on everything and seem to get enjoyment out of upset people and not once even given the shows any credit. Sorry you are a troll, I've happily get on with a lot of people on here who have some criticisms but when you just look for a reaction then they should be called out for it.


Par for the course. They were chomping at the bit this week when everyone, for the most part, knew the ratings would be down, especially after AEW trounced NXT. They just want to see them not succeed and use concern trolling to not come off as obvious event though they do. Just have to ignore them. Stop biting.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

WINNING said:


> Par for the course. They were chomping at the bit this week when everyone, for the most part, knew the ratings would be down, especially after AEW trounced NXT. They just want to see them not succeed and use concern trolling to not come off as obvious event though they do. Just have to ignore them. Stop biting.


It's fine to talk ratings and whatever the case may be, but if you come on this section, and 90% of your posts are about ratings and shit, you're just a goof. If you do that in the WWE section, you're a goof too.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

People putting so much emphasis on every excruciating detailed ratings analysis are missing the fucking point. AEW is not and never has been about winning any ratings battle. They’re about presenting an alternative to the dripping piles of steaming horseshit wrestling fans have had to settle for over most of the last 15 years. Their ratings only need to be good enough to keep them on a major cable channel in order to remain that viable alternative. Somebody threw out 500k viewers some time ago that would make TNT happy with the deal — sounds pretty reasonable to me, considering the relatively modest investment TNT had to make for it. Anything over that is gravy, and just further secures their spot in the weekly lineup. 

I don’t give a fuck if AEW beats NXT, and I surely don’t give a fuck about RAW or Slackdown. All I care about, and all any other AEW fan should care about, is AEW doing well enough to stay on tv. I’ll maintain that same position whether their number drops under 1 million or jumps to over 2. I would be a little concerned about any steady downward trends, but two weeks is nothing on which to establish a trend. 

I don't fucking care about what any other show is doing, and if you’re really an AEW fan, neither should you. All you people preaching that the ratings have bombed so they have to do this, that and the other fucking thing to fix it right fucking NOW can go pound sand.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> People putting so much emphasis on every excruciating detailed ratings analysis are missing the fucking point. AEW is not and never has been about winning any ratings battle. They’re about presenting an alternative to the dripping piles of steaming horseshit wrestling fans have had to settle for over most of the last 15 years. Their ratings only need to be good enough to keep them on a major cable channel in order to remain that viable alternative. Somebody threw out 500k viewers some time ago that would make TNT happy with the deal — sounds pretty reasonable to me, considering the relatively modest investment TNT had to make for it. Anything over that is gravy, and just further secures their spot in the weekly lineup.
> 
> I don’t give a fuck if AEW beats NXT, and I surely don’t give a fuck about RAW or Slackdown. All I care about, and all any other AEW fan should care about, is AEW doing well enough to stay on tv. I’ll maintain that same position whether their number drops under 1 million or jumps to over 2. I would be a little concerned about any steady downward trends, but two weeks is nothing on which to establish a trend.
> 
> I don't fucking care about what any other show is doing, and if you’re really an AEW fan, neither should you. All you people preaching that the ratings have bombed so they have to do this, that and the other fucking thing to fix it right fucking NOW can go pound sand.


This x 1000

I care as much about the ratings of any WWE program as I care about the ratings of M.A.S.H reruns

As long as AEW does well enough to stay on tv and be viable - I am solid


----------



## Versatile

Ratings might go way up when the NBA season starts and TNT will be able to promote AEW during the big NBA games.


----------



## TheLooseCanon

People trying to shit on AEW's drop when WWE just lost over 1 million viewers in 1 week. :heston

And they will lose over 500,000 more next week when they have no Rock or no draft.


----------



## looper007

LifeInCattleClass said:


> This x 1000
> 
> I care as much about the ratings of any WWE program as I care about the ratings of M.A.S.H reruns
> 
> As long as AEW does well enough to stay on tv and be viable - I am solid


For any wrestling fan wishing AEW to fail isn't a wrestling fan. I don't like seen anyone celebrating a company and it's talent losing their jobs. Having AEW around will make WWE better. And vice versa.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

looper007 said:


> For any wrestling fan wishing AEW to fail isn't a wrestling fan. I don't like seen anyone celebrating a company and it's talent losing their jobs. Having AEW around will make WWE better. And vice versa.


100% - you need all the companies to survive and thrive to keep our hobby viable

I’m not watching any other wrestling - but I hope they do well, for sure


----------



## AEWMoxley

TheLooseCanon said:


> People trying to shit on AEW's drop when WWE just lost over 1 million viewers in 1 week. :heston
> 
> And they will lose over 500,000 more next week when they have no Rock or no draft.


WWE has been a garbage product for so long, so it's not surprising. These guys were drawing 5-6 million viewers weekly in 2011. Even in 2014, they were drawing 4 million. The amount of viewers they've lost over the years, especially since 2015, is staggering.

This is why AEW needs to be on their game. With WWE's viewership dropping quickly, and likely to reach 2 million or below next year, AEW has an opportunity to match their numbers if they play their cards right.


----------



## Ger

Joe Gill said:


> [email protected] anyone who thinks TNT is upset with the ratings so far. Do you have any idea how much money USA and FOX are paying for the rights to WWE?


What does that have to do with the rating? And what is wrong about WWE making money with their rights? 
I would not start the money discussion regarding AEW, because that brings you on thin ice.



WINNING said:


> Par for the course. They were chomping at the bit this week when everyone, for the most part, knew the ratings would be down, especially after AEW trounced NXT. They just want to see them not succeed and use concern trolling to not come off as obvious event though they do. Just have to ignore them. Stop biting.


I already wondered, when a few guys here expected insanly ratings increase(!) after the premier show. 

Btw ... all this "wrestling boom" type of talking by social media and podcast is just a fairytale. People don`t have endless time to watch everything, especially after a PPV sunday.




Reggie Dunlop said:


> I don’t give a fuck if AEW beats NXT, and I surely don’t give a fuck about RAW or Slackdown. All I care about, and all any other AEW fan should care about, is AEW doing well enough to stay on tv. I’ll maintain that same position whether their number drops under 1 million or jumps to over 2. I would be a little concerned about any steady downward trends, but two weeks is nothing on which to establish a trend.


This.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> I don't fucking care about what any other show is doing, and if you’re really an AEW fan, neither should you. All you people preaching that the ratings have bombed so they have to do this, that and the other fucking thing to fix it right fucking NOW can go pound sand.


This week some postings sound like "uh oh, AEW didn`t beat WWE off the bat? Let`s turn on AEW as well."


----------



## birthday_massacre

AEW did 14 million viewers world wide. I think they are just fine.


----------



## omaroo

Really hope AEW succeeds long term.

But imo they will never reach WCW level let alone WWE level today.

A great alternative is what they should aim for.


----------



## Darkest Lariat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> People putting so much emphasis on every excruciating detailed ratings analysis are missing the fucking point. AEW is not and never has been about winning any ratings battle. They’re about presenting an alternative to the dripping piles of steaming horseshit wrestling fans have had to settle for over most of the last 15 years. Their ratings only need to be good enough to keep them on a major cable channel in order to remain that viable alternative. Somebody threw out 500k viewers some time ago that would make TNT happy with the deal — sounds pretty reasonable to me, considering the relatively modest investment TNT had to make for it. Anything over that is gravy, and just further secures their spot in the weekly lineup.
> 
> I don’t give a fuck if AEW beats NXT, and I surely don’t give a fuck about RAW or Slackdown. All I care about, and all any other AEW fan should care about, is AEW doing well enough to stay on tv. I’ll maintain that same position whether their number drops under 1 million or jumps to over 2. I would be a little concerned about any steady downward trends, but two weeks is nothing on which to establish a trend.
> 
> I don't fucking care about what any other show is doing, and if you’re really an AEW fan, neither should you. All you people preaching that the ratings have bombed so they have to do this, that and the other fucking thing to fix it right fucking NOW can go pound sand.


:applause

Reggie the truthsayer. This has to be one of the most rational and logical posts I've ever seen on here. It's almost like I wrote it.

:jericho2


----------



## Metalhead1

I really can't say enough good things about AEW. They are edgy, raw, spontaneous, exciting, and much less scripted than WWE. The latter quality allows for the wrestlers to develop their own unique personalities, which makes for a much more interesting program. 

WWE has really become so damn scripted, boring, and kiddie-oriented, yet now that AEW has emerged, WWE has actually made efforts to step up their program.

WWE had no real competition for a long time ago and as a result, they got way too lackadaisical with their programming. Yet now that real competition has emerged, everyone is stepping up their game. Competition is good for everyone involved.

I really believe we are entering a very exciting time for pro wrestling.


----------



## looper007

omaroo said:


> Really hope AEW succeeds long term.
> 
> But imo they will never reach WCW level let alone WWE level today.
> 
> A great alternative is what they should aim for.


Prime WCW and WWE number probably not unless they find their own Hogan, Austin or Rock. Even get their own Flair, Goldberg or Sting. You can't rule that out, might happen in years to come. If they can find that star like the ones mentioned above then you just never know.

But yeah for the next few years it's about given an alternative to WWE. I'm sure there will be some episodes of Dynamite that will slip below a million, and I'm sure they won't sell out every TV taping or PPV, no matter how great their product is. And I'm sure they will go through periods that the product isn't great that happens with all wrestling companies, that some big feuds don't click. It's all about staying the course and not changing it. 

If it's still around in 5 years time, I think if they don't have most of their top young talent stolen by WWE, they've created their own stars, have some of the best wrestling around, have a loyal viewership and that brings in good numbers, produce great PPV's then I think it's a success for them.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

AEW will never go out of business. Khan is too smart


----------



## BigCy

I know this has been said and I don't want to keep beating a dead horse (yes I do, it's fun, die again horse!!!) but I don't think anyone expected ratings to increase, at best they would have stayed the same. The loss isn't a huge deal but if this trend continues for the next few weeks then that should be cause for concern. I'm not as big of a fan as some in here, in fact I'm more passive about AEW to be honest, I want them to do well for the sake of the business but I won't cry either if they don't succeed. My prediciton for next week's rating is around a 1.2-1.3 based on having title matches, granted I don't buy All-In as a viable contender but I'm sure many others will like to see him, I guess we can see what the ratings say about it. I'm still willing to eat crow if AEW gets consistently (as in several weeks straight) of a 2.0 or higher rating. I'll even PM apologies to some of the AEW Superfans on here. 

Also to the people always shitting on The Wood (and other similar posters), the guy almost always brings up good logical arguments and I've seen people respectfully (key word...respectfully) disagree with him and he doesn't get bent out of shape like some others accusing him of it. Instead of bickering or being a wuss and blocking him why not try to counter his arguments with some good ones of your own? I really think some of you want to live in a happy bubble where no one can challenge your thinking.


----------



## Dave Santos

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Chairshot620 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hasn’t it been at least 5 years since a non-wwe show drew over 1,000,000 viewers on national tv?
> 
> Also TNA didn’t go head to head against other wrestling shows for most of its life.
> 
> AEW is doing fine so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1182428184895053824
> I feel like that puts it into perspective a bit better, that's only counting TNA ratings on Spike in 2014.
Click to expand...


Thats actually a good comparison. Raj continued with "spike was in about 93 million homes. TNT today is in about 90 million homes". So thats around the amount of people lost to cord cutting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

What sort of a different vibe will a student section bring to this show? People keep looking at Cody’s vision of almost ‘recreating WCW’ - while they are ignoring TK’s of ‘recreating ECW’ - this is going to be super rowdy


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1180124432079171584
** Student section is the Turquoise bit if you don’t want to open the pic**


----------



## imthegame19

omaroo said:


> Really hope AEW succeeds long term.
> 
> But imo they will never reach WCW level let alone WWE level today.
> 
> A great alternative is what they should aim for.


You tell that from the company being around 10 months? I agree focus should be being a great alternative. But it's only matter of time before WWW audience realizes this is what they should be watching. Not crap WWE puts on tv every week.


----------



## Corey

Now confirmed that this week's Dynamite is gonna go head-to-head with Yankees/Astros Game 4 of the ALCS on FOX. Big time heavyweight matchup there. Game 1 last night did a 5.69.


----------



## looper007

Corey said:


> Now confirmed that this week's Dynamite is gonna go head-to-head with Yankees/Astros Game 4 of the ALCS on FOX. Big time heavyweight matchup there. Game 1 last night did a 5.69.


You will see the trolls out in force saying "It's over for AEW".

Nothing much you can do, no matter what day they put their show on they are coming up agaisnt something. We just have to accept some shows are probably going to go under million, no matter how good their shows are. 

If it happens when Baseball/Football/Basketball ain't on then worry. But they have a uphill battle to keep it over a million this week. Good luck to them. As long as it's a top show then I'm happy.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

That Yankee game should hurt both AEW and nxt. Just the way it is. As long as AEW puts on a good show, I'll be more than satisfied.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah that Yankees/Astros series has more appeal than the World Series will end up having. 

Gonna be a tough week, if they can stay over a million it will be a success.


----------



## V-Trigger

That building in Illinois is fucking gorgeous


----------



## .christopher.

Does anyone have their ratings from here in England on ITV?


----------



## Claro De Luna

What's the latest on the levels of tickets sold for all upcoming live shows announced so far?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

If AEW beating NXT becomes a regular occurrence, I could foresee WWE starting a RAW/NXT synergy of sorts. Have a storyline that starts on RAW but you have to tune in to NXT to get further developments. Basically find a way to get the RAW viewership to help bolster the flagging NXT ratings.


----------



## Continuum

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> If AEW beating NXT becomes a regular occurrence, I could foresee WWE starting a RAW/NXT synergy of sorts. Have a storyline that starts on RAW but you have to tune in to NXT to get further developments. Basically find a way to get the RAW viewership to help bolster the flagging NXT ratings.


WWE drops every storyline after one show so that aint happening. :x


----------



## The Wood

Beatles123 said:


> Not all of us are USING that AEW defense. I've not called you a troll. What I am saying is that your posts come across as if you believe ONLY YOU are the one with the right way to look at the situation. Even now, your post drips with it. You seem to think YOU are the victim just because you disagree, but that isn't true. It's how you carry yourself. No niceness, no respect for the other's view, and if they tell you why you're wrong, you ignore it. You do what you claim we do. You just did it now: "Take your AEWWE and shove it" is just as wrong a response as what some have given you. I DO have a problem with you, Wood, but I don't think you're a troll but I DO take great personal offense to some things you have said. *You claim its ok to like AEW, but thats not what I get from you at all.* You JUDGE those that like AEW as if they are subhuman, and that's what I cab't advocate. Its fine if you don't like AEW, hell, I have issues with them as well, but you seem to pass off anything they do as a negatibe while, yes, you praise a TINY fraction. Its fine if thats where you're at, but you express so in such a needless way that comes across as if you don't want anyone to enjoy things you don't.


To your credit, no, _you_ have not called me a troll. It does happen though, and there's even a few in this collection of posts. 

See, you're making that up for yourself and sticking it to me, because it's easy. The bolded part is your acknowledging that. You take what I say and discard it and apply a bunch of feelings you have about it. I don't think I am a victim, lol. There are people with real problems. But I do enjoy pointing out what it is people are doing. It's low-key cyber-bullying, honestly. And the only reason it happens is because people don't like the logic of the argument against them. You say I don't have any respect? How? Demonstrate it. Don't just say it because it's a made-up thing that works for you. 

I don't treat anyone like they are subhuman. I rarely even use insults jokingly anymore, because people take them personally. What I do do is explain _why_ something doesn't work, why it isn't going to work, etc. People take umbrage with that. If it's making me look superior? Okay? That's on the quality of what I'm saying, I guess. 

Yes, Beatles -- what I clearly do is ignore people. Watch me ignore them right now. *sigh* 



looper007 said:


> People really need to stop feeding Woody and his baiting posts at this point.


Hey, Beatles! Look! One's spotted! My posts are "bait" apparently. Hey, looper -- say something of value or get out. This is closer to trolling and spamming than anything I do in here. 



looper007 said:


> no problem with anyone been critical but when these same people come on shit on everything and seem to get enjoyment out of upset people and not once even given the shows any credit. Sorry you are a troll, I've happily get on with a lot of people on here who have some criticisms but when you just look for a reaction then they should be called out for it.


I don't shit on everything. I have been very complimentary of some things AEW has done and of its _potential_. I was one of its most ardent supporters in terms of conception. Beatles acknowledges that and someone else is about to imply 10%. Well, if they want more than 10% of my praise, they should impress me more than 10% of the time. 



WINNING said:


> Par for the course. They were chomping at the bit this week when everyone, for the most part, knew the ratings would be down, especially after AEW trounced NXT. They just want to see them not succeed and use concern trolling to not come off as obvious event though they do. Just have to ignore them. Stop biting.


Hey, Beatles! Look! Another one! "Concern trolling." This is something WINNING has made up, like his argument that critics of AEW want another WWE, that applies to _no one_. It's a fairy tale made up by WINNING to make themselves feel better because not everybody loves AEW and the data reflects that. 

I'd ask WINNING for evidence to back up their claims, but they won't. They don't have it. WINNING will just say that people want AEW to fail, even though it makes _no_ sense. Also, you want to talk about "attitude?" It doesn't get much more smug than this post. It's presumptuous ("Par for the course"), dismissive ("concern trolling", "ignore them"), and insults character ("they were chomping at the bit," which really should be "champing"). It's fine. WINNING is insecure with their position so they have to make up things and dismiss people. But stop acting like "your side" (to be so dramatic) is the one that are full of the nice, optimistic people. You've got the bullies. 



The Inbred Goatman said:


> It's fine to talk ratings and whatever the case may be, but if you come on this section, and 90% of your posts are about ratings and shit, you're just a goof. If you do that in the WWE section, you're a goof too.


Yes, how dare people be into what they're into. Plenty of people love discussing stocks and investment strategies too. What goofs. What utter assholes to have an interest. 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> People putting so much emphasis on every excruciating detailed ratings analysis are missing the fucking point. AEW is not and never has been about winning any ratings battle. They’re about presenting an alternative to the dripping piles of steaming horseshit wrestling fans have had to settle for over most of the last 15 years. Their ratings only need to be good enough to keep them on a major cable channel in order to remain that viable alternative. Somebody threw out 500k viewers some time ago that would make TNT happy with the deal — sounds pretty reasonable to me, considering the relatively modest investment TNT had to make for it. Anything over that is gravy, and just further secures their spot in the weekly lineup.
> 
> I don’t give a fuck if AEW beats NXT, and I surely don’t give a fuck about RAW or Slackdown. *All I care about, and all any other AEW fan should care about, is AEW doing well enough to stay on tv.* I’ll maintain that same position whether their number drops under 1 million or jumps to over 2. I would be a little concerned about any steady downward trends, but two weeks is nothing on which to establish a trend.
> 
> I don't fucking care about what any other show is doing, and if you’re really an AEW fan, neither should you. All you people preaching that the ratings have bombed so they have to do this, that and the other fucking thing to fix it right fucking NOW can go pound sand.


This is a really solid post, insofar as I agree with your overall point, but where I disagree are the particulars. 

It would be great if AEW is a credible alternative, but it's got to actually be that alternative. Right now, there is lots of stuff that reminds too many people of bad WWE, bad WCW and even bad TNA. And that's valid, even if fans don't want to confront that. But that's a discussion of content and can take place in other discussions. 

People have really attached themselves to that 500k number, huh? That was Meltzer, and like when he conflated AEW's international buys with domestic buys to make them appear larger than ECW, he's very obviously on-board with AEW and wants them to succeed as much as any wrestling fan. _And that's fine._ The dude has to cover this shit. I don't blame him one bit. But people need to be careful with the context of what Meltzer said. 

Meltzer's whole thing with the 500k point was that the number _combined with B/R Live subscriptions_ would make them viable to Turner. Now, some have pointed out that might be "Meltzer maths" (100,000 people waiting in line, 120k PPV buys, etc.). And while Turner does own B/R Live, TNT still has a vested interest and a network average that I believe is above 500k. Now, I've learnt that is largely from NBA, but you have to think about _why_ Turner wants live wrestling each week. It's not to bring their average down. 

The current number is great compared to the network average! So what are we hollering about? Because it's only week to and a 20% drop is not good. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but when you say you want AEW to remain on the network, that is what people are talking about. Where is the base for this thing, because it may not be above the network average, and despite what Meltzer said, 500k is probably not going to cut it. 

We also don't know the position of the people who said that to Meltzer. Was it Gladys from reception? What it dismissive? "Oh yeah, that rasslin' -- we'd be lucky if we got 500k..." Was it a top executive? Was it a worst case scenario number? People keep saying they'd be "happy" with that, but I don't remember reading that. I think discussion around that 500k figure has anchored itself exactly like I thought it would: as a random low figure there to make anything they do look bigger in comparison. 

I've bolded part of what you said, because while I know you meant it in a positive way, that does resemble gatekeeping. AEW needs to be very careful of appealing to a fan-base that will do that, because it stops that base expanding. I don't think it's appropriate telling people what they should and shouldn't watch AEW for, and what they should and shouldn't care about. 

The big difference between you and me in this scenario is that you are taking the data as it comes, which is fine. But bad news is going to hit too late. And that's fine, you're not the one that's going to be fixing the company or whatever. But it's also fair for people to make predictions (as hard as that is with just two weeks of TV ratings -- although we do have other metrics), and who are thinking further into the future about it than you are, because that's an acceptable hobby too. 

You are right thought -- we don't have a trend. But when you hit a trend, it might be too late. And then AEW is in trouble. I'm sorry, but it is. 



TheLooseCanon said:


> People trying to shit on AEW's drop when WWE just lost over 1 million viewers in 1 week. :heston
> 
> And they will lose over 500,000 more next week when they have no Rock or no draft.


Here's a scoop: It's possible to call both numbers disappointing. ;-)



looper007 said:


> For any wrestling fan wishing AEW to fail isn't a wrestling fan. I don't like seen anyone celebrating a company and it's talent losing their jobs. Having AEW around will make WWE better. And vice versa.


No one is wanting AEW to fail. That's WINNING making stuff up. People worried that it will are called trolls because a lot of the predictions they made up turning out to be right, and people don't like that. 

Not everything wrestling promotion needs to survive however. Things can get too diluted. It keeps some talent locked away from eyeballs. But the reason AEW needs to succeed is because of its platform and because of the capital involved. If AEW succeeds, other billionaires might get into wrestling or see it as viable. If AEW fails, it might be another couple of decades. HOWEVER, I'm trying to find optimism that there is enough that can be demonstably identified in 2019 that might convince another billionaire that there is a spot for wrestling, but AEW didn't go about it right. There might be a room for a #1 or #2 above AEW. But the timing may not be right for that and I'm getting ahead of myself with that one. 



AEWMoxley said:


> WWE has been a garbage product for so long, so it's not surprising. These guys were drawing 5-6 million viewers weekly in 2011. Even in 2014, they were drawing 4 million. The amount of viewers they've lost over the years, especially since 2015, is staggering.
> 
> This is why AEW needs to be on their game. With WWE's viewership dropping quickly, and likely to reach 2 million or below next year, AEW has an opportunity to match their numbers if they play their cards right.


WWE is a husk. It's Zombie WWE at this point. AEW had the opportunity to take a much larger slice of wrestling fans than they have. 



RubberbandGoat said:


> AEW will never go out of business. Khan is too smart


AEW might not ever go out of business because the Khans have the capital. They can afford to run a vanity promotion ad infinitum. I don't necessarily think it is because Khan is too smart. Even he has admitted he's made some pretty big mistakes so far. 



BigCy said:


> I know this has been said and I don't want to keep beating a dead horse (yes I do, it's fun, die again horse!!!) but I don't think anyone expected ratings to increase, at best they would have stayed the same. The loss isn't a huge deal but if this trend continues for the next few weeks then that should be cause for concern. I'm not as big of a fan as some in here, in fact I'm more passive about AEW to be honest, I want them to do well for the sake of the business but I won't cry either if they don't succeed. My prediciton for next week's rating is around a 1.2-1.3 based on having title matches, granted I don't buy All-In as a viable contender but I'm sure many others will like to see him, I guess we can see what the ratings say about it. I'm still willing to eat crow if AEW gets consistently (as in several weeks straight) of a 2.0 or higher rating. I'll even PM apologies to some of the AEW Superfans on here.
> 
> Also to the people always shitting on The Wood (and other similar posters), the guy almost always brings up good logical arguments and I've seen people respectfully (key word...respectfully) disagree with him and he doesn't get bent out of shape like some others accusing him of it. Instead of bickering or being a wuss and blocking him why not try to counter his arguments with some good ones of your own? I really think some of you want to live in a happy bubble where no one can challenge your thinking.


Well, Meltzer and Keller did. Lots of people in the bubble did. Hell, it wouldn't have shocked me. This is just me personally, but I expected a 20% drop with a bad show. I don't like everything in AEW, but the stuff I really consider bad has been kept away from prying eyes (which makes you wonder why they have it in the first place). I wonder how it will effect things if it eventually does make the air? 

For the record, I'm more than willing to eat crow too. There just hasn't been cause for it yet, because a lot of the observers -- whether critics or just not as passionate fans -- have been validated. It doesn't mean that's always going to be the case or whatever.

And thanks for the reasonable words at the end. Much appreciated. *thumbs up* 



THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> If AEW beating NXT becomes a regular occurrence, I could foresee WWE starting a RAW/NXT synergy of sorts. Have a storyline that starts on RAW but you have to tune in to NXT to get further developments. Basically find a way to get the RAW viewership to help bolster the flagging NXT ratings.


I do think that is something in the back pocket, but I don't think the Pauls are going to rush to it. It's a potentially huge angle that can happen down the road. Ideally, it would be run by the Pauls after Vince relinquishes more control. Ha! We'll see if that happens. 

But I think NXT are taking the long game. They're letting AEW burn out their brawls and big matches and cool down as far as attendance, ratings and buys go. Then they are going to start hitting hard. That's when we'll get the hotter angles in NXT. It will be to mark two ships passing in the night, so to speak.


----------



## EmbassyForever

lol


----------



## The Wood

Oh, and by the way, to the person who said that this is going to make WWE better: 

How did you like Hell in a Cell and that draft show?


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

EmbassyForever said:


> lol


:kobelol It's too easy.

For AEW this upcoming Wednesday, they hopefully promoted enough to where their ratings do not go below a million. We'll see how they can keep the momentum still hot for them.


----------



## Beatles123

The Wood said:


> To your credit, no, _you_ have not called me a troll. It does happen though, and there's even a few in this collection of posts.
> 
> See, you're making that up for yourself and sticking it to me, because it's easy. The bolded part is your acknowledging that. You take what I say and discard it and apply a bunch of feelings you have about it. I don't think I am a victim, lol. There are people with real problems. But I do enjoy pointing out what it is people are doing. It's low-key cyber-bullying, honestly. And the only reason it happens is because people don't like the logic of the argument against them. You say I don't have any respect? How? Demonstrate it. Don't just say it because it's a made-up thing that works for you.
> 
> I don't treat anyone like they are subhuman. I rarely even use insults jokingly anymore, because people take them personally. What I do do is explain _why_ something doesn't work, why it isn't going to work, etc. People take umbrage with that. If it's making me look superior? Okay? That's on the quality of what I'm saying, I guess.
> 
> Yes, Beatles -- what I clearly do is ignore people. Watch me ignore them right now. *sigh*
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Beatles! Look! One's spotted! My posts are "bait" apparently. Hey, looper -- say something of value or get out. This is closer to trolling and spamming than anything I do in here.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't shit on everything. I have been very complimentary of some things AEW has done and of its _potential_. I was one of its most ardent supporters in terms of conception. Beatles acknowledges that and someone else is about to imply 10%. Well, if they want more than 10% of my praise, they should impress me more than 10% of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, Beatles! Look! Another one! "Concern trolling." This is something WINNING has made up, like his argument that critics of AEW want another WWE, that applies to _no one_. It's a fairy tale made up by WINNING to make themselves feel better because not everybody loves AEW and the data reflects that.
> 
> I'd ask WINNING for evidence to back up their claims, but they won't. They don't have it. WINNING will just say that people want AEW to fail, even though it makes _no_ sense. Also, you want to talk about "attitude?" It doesn't get much more smug than this post. It's presumptuous ("Par for the course"), dismissive ("concern trolling", "ignore them"), and insults character ("they were chomping at the bit," which really should be "champing"). It's fine. WINNING is insecure with their position so they have to make up things and dismiss people. But stop acting like "your side" (to be so dramatic) is the one that are full of the nice, optimistic people. You've got the bullies.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, how dare people be into what they're into. Plenty of people love discussing stocks and investment strategies too. What goofs. What utter assholes to have an interest.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a really solid post, insofar as I agree with your overall point, but where I disagree are the particulars.
> 
> It would be great if AEW is a credible alternative, but it's got to actually be that alternative. Right now, there is lots of stuff that reminds too many people of bad WWE, bad WCW and even bad TNA. And that's valid, even if fans don't want to confront that. But that's a discussion of content and can take place in other discussions.
> 
> People have really attached themselves to that 500k number, huh? That was Meltzer, and like when he conflated AEW's international buys with domestic buys to make them appear larger than ECW, he's very obviously on-board with AEW and wants them to succeed as much as any wrestling fan. _And that's fine._ The dude has to cover this shit. I don't blame him one bit. But people need to be careful with the context of what Meltzer said.
> 
> Meltzer's whole thing with the 500k point was that the number _combined with B/R Live subscriptions_ would make them viable to Turner. Now, some have pointed out that might be "Meltzer maths" (100,000 people waiting in line, 120k PPV buys, etc.). And while Turner does own B/R Live, TNT still has a vested interest and a network average that I believe is above 500k. Now, I've learnt that is largely from NBA, but you have to think about _why_ Turner wants live wrestling each week. It's not to bring their average down.
> 
> The current number is great compared to the network average! So what are we hollering about? Because it's only week to and a 20% drop is not good. It doesn't mean the sky is falling, but when you say you want AEW to remain on the network, that is what people are talking about. Where is the base for this thing, because it may not be above the network average, and despite what Meltzer said, 500k is probably not going to cut it.
> 
> We also don't know the position of the people who said that to Meltzer. Was it Gladys from reception? What it dismissive? "Oh yeah, that rasslin' -- we'd be lucky if we got 500k..." Was it a top executive? Was it a worst case scenario number? People keep saying they'd be "happy" with that, but I don't remember reading that. I think discussion around that 500k figure has anchored itself exactly like I thought it would: as a random low figure there to make anything they do look bigger in comparison.
> 
> I've bolded part of what you said, because while I know you meant it in a positive way, that does resemble gatekeeping. AEW needs to be very careful of appealing to a fan-base that will do that, because it stops that base expanding. I don't think it's appropriate telling people what they should and shouldn't watch AEW for, and what they should and shouldn't care about.
> 
> The big difference between you and me in this scenario is that you are taking the data as it comes, which is fine. But bad news is going to hit too late. And that's fine, you're not the one that's going to be fixing the company or whatever. But it's also fair for people to make predictions (as hard as that is with just two weeks of TV ratings -- although we do have other metrics), and who are thinking further into the future about it than you are, because that's an acceptable hobby too.
> 
> You are right thought -- we don't have a trend. But when you hit a trend, it might be too late. And then AEW is in trouble. I'm sorry, but it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a scoop: It's possible to call both numbers disappointing. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> No one is wanting AEW to fail. That's WINNING making stuff up. People worried that it will are called trolls because a lot of the predictions they made up turning out to be right, and people don't like that.
> 
> Not everything wrestling promotion needs to survive however. Things can get too diluted. It keeps some talent locked away from eyeballs. But the reason AEW needs to succeed is because of its platform and because of the capital involved. If AEW succeeds, other billionaires might get into wrestling or see it as viable. If AEW fails, it might be another couple of decades. HOWEVER, I'm trying to find optimism that there is enough that can be demonstably identified in 2019 that might convince another billionaire that there is a spot for wrestling, but AEW didn't go about it right. There might be a room for a #1 or #2 above AEW. But the timing may not be right for that and I'm getting ahead of myself with that one.
> 
> 
> 
> WWE is a husk. It's Zombie WWE at this point. AEW had the opportunity to take a much larger slice of wrestling fans than they have.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW might not ever go out of business because the Khans have the capital. They can afford to run a vanity promotion ad infinitum. I don't necessarily think it is because Khan is too smart. Even he has admitted he's made some pretty big mistakes so far.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Meltzer and Keller did. Lots of people in the bubble did. Hell, it wouldn't have shocked me. This is just me personally, but I expected a 20% drop with a bad show. I don't like everything in AEW, but the stuff I really consider bad has been kept away from prying eyes (which makes you wonder why they have it in the first place). I wonder how it will effect things if it eventually does make the air?
> 
> For the record, I'm more than willing to eat crow too. There just hasn't been cause for it yet, because a lot of the observers -- whether critics or just not as passionate fans -- have been validated. It doesn't mean that's always going to be the case or whatever.
> 
> And thanks for the reasonable words at the end. Much appreciated. *thumbs up*
> 
> 
> 
> I do think that is something in the back pocket, but I don't think the Pauls are going to rush to it. It's a potentially huge angle that can happen down the road. Ideally, it would be run by the Pauls after Vince relinquishes more control. Ha! We'll see if that happens.
> 
> But I think NXT are taking the long game. They're letting AEW burn out their brawls and big matches and cool down as far as attendance, ratings and buys go. Then they are going to start hitting hard. That's when we'll get the hotter angles in NXT. It will be to mark two ships passing in the night, so to speak.


You created those responses not because of what you said, wood, but the way you carry yourself. Just consider that maybe at least part of the problem just MIGHT be your fault? I think that wold go a long way towards you not giving off the impression you so. Its not simply us that need to understand YOU better.


----------



## SPCDRI

Yankees/Astros is a huge draw, that's gonna murder AEW and NXT.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

SPCDRI said:


> Yankees/Astros is a huge draw, that's gonna murder AEW and NXT.


Yankees/Astros will already be over by the time Dynamite starts. Nats/Cards will be just starting and it's an elimination game.


----------



## patpat

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> SPCDRI said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yankees/Astros is a huge draw, that's gonna murder AEW and NXT.
> 
> 
> 
> Yankees/Astros will already be over by the time Dynamite starts. Nats/Cards will be just starting and it's an elimination game.
Click to expand...

 when does the astro game starts?


----------



## Taroostyles

The Astros/Yankees game is the 8pm, not Nats/Cards. 

So they are going head to head with the game that's the bigger draw.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*

A lot of early excuse making lol. Like shit the episode hasn't even happened lol


----------



## Metalhead1

AEW is really doing lots of things right. In a way, they're the antithesis of the stale and boring product that WWE has become.

They are edgy, provocative, adult, and spontaneous. And they are much less scripted so the wrestlers have tremendous freedom to showcase their unique personalities. 

They've just been really beating the hell out of NXT in terms of ratings. By comparison, they really present the wrestlers a lot better, offering more background and pomp and circumstance. NXT just seems a lot more generic and stale, and considerably less exciting.


----------



## The Wood

There’s no problem, Beatles, lol. I’m just pointing out what it is you do. It’s avoidance. You say it’s because of how I carry myself. Well, tough. I don’t feel the need to mince words on a discussion board. I don’t insult people, label people trolls, or dismiss arguments because I don’t like the source. That’s what you guys do. 

Have at it, but it’s transparent and does say more about you than it does about me.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Have they sold out Philadelphia? Tony just mentioned on Dark that it's a sold out show tomorrow. Good news if this is the case.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Over 30k live viewers on YouTube for AEW Dark. This is more than last week.


----------



## Taroostyles

Metalhead1 said:


> AEW is really doing lots of things right. In a way, they're the antithesis of the stale and boring product that WWE has become.
> 
> They are edgy, provocative, adult, and spontaneous. And they are much less scripted so the wrestlers have tremendous freedom to showcase their unique personalities.
> 
> They've just been really beating the hell out of NXT in terms of ratings. By comparison, they really present the wrestlers a lot better, offering more background and pomp and circumstance. NXT just seems a lot more generic and stale, and considerably less exciting.


This 1000%. It really feels like anything can happen at anytime and that was one of the hallmark traits of the peak era on both Raw and Nitro.


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> The Astros/Yankees game is the 8pm, not Nats/Cards.
> 
> So they are going head to head with the game that's the bigger draw.


What happen if they Don't need to do the fifth game for Nats/Cards ?


----------



## Joe Moore

rbl85 said:


> What happen if they Don't need to do the fifth game for Nats/Cards ?



What should happen? It won't be played and there won't be a game 5, Nats are up 7:1 and in total control. And there is also a very high chance for the ALCS to be a rainout.


----------



## Stoney Jackson

rbl85 said:


> What happen if they Don't need to do the fifth game for Nats/Cards ?




Well they certainly would not move the 8PM game to the earlier slot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

Joe Moore said:


> What should happen? It won't be played and there won't be a game 5, Nats are up 7:1 and in total control. And there is also a very high chance for the ALCS to be a rainout.


I'm sorry but what is a rainout ?

Too much rain ?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Metalhead1 said:


> AEW is really doing lots of things right. In a way, they're the antithesis of the stale and boring product that WWE has become.
> 
> They are edgy, provocative, adult, and spontaneous. And they are much less scripted so the wrestlers have tremendous freedom to showcase their unique personalities.
> 
> They've just been really beating the hell out of NXT in terms of ratings. By comparison, they really present the wrestlers a lot better, offering more background and pomp and circumstance. NXT just seems a lot more generic and stale, and considerably less exciting.


Simply put, they give you a reason to care about the wrestlers and the matches. And they do it without scripted promos and over-produced prerecorded segments. Simple but effective.


----------



## Joe Moore

rbl85 said:


> I'm sorry but what is a rainout ?
> 
> Too much rain ?



That's exactly what it is. There is even a storm warning for NYC harbor tomorrow.


----------



## Corey

Not sure what all the confusion is about here. I already said Dynamite is going head-to-head with Yankees/Astros Game 4 at 8.  Nats/Cards isn't relevant to Dynamite.



Claro De Luna said:


> Have they sold out Philadelphia? Tony just mentioned on Dark that it's a sold out show tomorrow. Good news if this is the case.


Yeah Philly was the last of the instant sellouts. It'll be a packed house.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Taroostyles said:


> The Astros/Yankees game is the 8pm, not Nats/Cards.
> 
> So they are going head to head with the game that's the bigger draw.


You are right I was looking at it wrong.


----------



## The Wood

But I thought viewers had to go down? It’s almost like that excuse doesn’t hold.


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> A lot of early excuse making lol. Like shit the episode hasn't even happened lol


 what "excuses" tho? What are people excusing here? Discussing the effect of a baseball game on a wrestling show is excusing what? 
People like the show they know its gonna be awesome so they want it to get a good rating because good shows having good ratings is satisfying as a fan and put a wider audience in front of great wrestling program.

Not everything is excuses and console war bro.


----------



## The Wood

patpat said:


> what "excuses" tho? What are people excusing here? Discussing the effect of a baseball game on a wrestling show is excusing what?
> People like the show they know its gonna be awesome so they want it to get a good rating because good shows having good ratings is satisfying as a fan and put a wider audience in front of great wrestling program.
> 
> Not everything is excuses and console war bro.


Because the baseball audience didn't account for the drop last week (even Meltzer agrees with this) and it's going to be used to explain the drop this week instead of honestly looking at the product and changing what isn't working.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Because the baseball audience didn't account for the drop last week (even Meltzer agrees with this) and it's going to be used to explain the drop this week instead of honestly looking at* the product and changing what isn't working*.


You can do 5284895 changes but wrestling is cold and dying.

Some of you are still living in the past where wrestling was this cool thing with a big fanbase….well that's not the case anymore.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> You can do 5284895 changes but wrestling is cold and dying.
> 
> Some of you are still living in the past where wrestling was this cool thing with a big fanbase….well that's not the case anymore.


Yeah, because wrestling sucks. 

It's kind of the point.


----------



## looper007

AEW must listen to The Woody, if they don't they fail. He knows best lol.


----------



## The Wood

looper007 said:


> AEW must listen to The Woody, if they don't they fail. He knows best lol.


They should listen to common sense and use the data they do have.


----------



## RapShepard

patpat said:


> what "excuses" tho? What are people excusing here? Discussing the effect of a baseball game on a wrestling show is excusing what?
> People like the show they know its gonna be awesome so they want it to get a good rating because good shows having good ratings is satisfying as a fan and put a wider audience in front of great wrestling program.
> 
> Not everything is excuses and console war bro.



It's an excuse because the damn show hasn't even happened yet lol. On top of that it's the only reason being talked about for this drop that hasn't even happened. The baseball game is a big deal, but maybe some didn't like what they seen and decided not to tune back in. That's something that should be considered as well, because there will be some type of sport on the majority of the year on Wednesday. You can't make a habit of "well of course things went down sports were on".


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yep there is always a sport to deal with. NBA Wednesday’s on ESPN start soon.


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> what "excuses" tho? What are people excusing here? Discussing the effect of a baseball game on a wrestling show is excusing what?
> People like the show they know its gonna be awesome so they want it to get a good rating because good shows having good ratings is satisfying as a fan and put a wider audience in front of great wrestling program.
> 
> Not everything is excuses and console war bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's an excuse because the damn show hasn't even happened yet lol. On top of that it's the only reason being talked about for this drop that hasn't even happened. The baseball game is a big deal, but maybe some didn't like what they seen and decided not to tune back in. That's something that should be considered as well, because there will be some type of sport on the majority of the year on Wednesday. You can't make a habit of "well of course things went down sports were on".
Click to expand...

....where did I say the baseball game is solely responsible for any kind of drop? Listen I dont give a fuck dude, the only reason I discuss this is because I dont want then to face a too strong baseball competition that will affect their numbers. No one is excusing anything from what I have seen people are "hoping" it doesnt do bad.
Again drop the console war mindset dude not everyone cares.


----------



## RapShepard

patpat said:


> ....where did I say the baseball game is solely responsible for any kind of drop? Listen I dont give a fuck dude, the only reason I discuss this is because I dont want then to face a too strong baseball competition that *will affect their numbers*. No one is excusing anything from what I have seen people are "hoping" it doesnt do bad.
> Again drop the console war mindset dude not everyone cares.


No you actually do give a fuck. You can disguise it how you want, but everybody in the ratings thread gives a fuck about ratings. You saying you don't while making it clear you want them to do good is just an oxymoron. 

As far as the console war mindset, are you saying that to the "AEW does everything better than the competition" posters? Because that's more of a console war mindset than me laughing at premade excuses.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

3rd week - hard to call

Was spot on with 1st week at 1.4

Was way off with 2nd week being 1.1 (I said 1.6)

This week...... think it stays at 1.1 - 1.2

Question on Nielson families. Why don’t companies just bribe them? Seems like such an archaic system. We had something similar in South Africa - a 3rd world country - 10 years ago. And even then it was clear it is such a bad system for true ratings

Why is it still employed in USA?


----------



## rbl85

No MLB tonight


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> No MLB tonight


How so?

That is good news


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How so?
> 
> That is good news


One series wrapped up last night, the other is rained out tonight.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Good card + no MLB + everyone is disappointed with WWE

Things have fallen AEW's way tonight. Tonight's show needs to be great. It would go a long way to them increasing their viewership over the coming weeks.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> One series wrapped up last night, the other is rained out tonight.


Ah.... nice one


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah they are lucky to have the Yanks/Astros game rained out.

Tonight should be very interesting as they have a fantastic lineup with their biggest star in the main event and now their biggest competition is off the table. 

Hoping they can atleast match the viewership from week 1.


----------



## The Wood

patpat said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> what "excuses" tho? What are people excusing here? Discussing the effect of a baseball game on a wrestling show is excusing what?
> People like the show they know its gonna be awesome so they want it to get a good rating because good shows having good ratings is satisfying as a fan and put a wider audience in front of great wrestling program.
> 
> Not everything is excuses and console war bro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's an excuse because the damn show hasn't even happened yet lol. On top of that it's the only reason being talked about for this drop that hasn't even happened. The baseball game is a big deal, but maybe some didn't like what they seen and decided not to tune back in. That's something that should be considered as well, because there will be some type of sport on the majority of the year on Wednesday. You can't make a habit of "well of course things went down sports were on".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ....where did I say the baseball game is solely responsible for any kind of drop? Listen I dont give a fuck dude, the only reason I discuss this is because I dont want then to face a too strong baseball competition that will affect their numbers. No one is excusing anything from what I have seen people are "hoping" it doesnt do bad.
> Again drop the console war mindset dude not everyone cares.
Click to expand...

People are saying it all over the place in here, pat. I’ve always found the “something better is on” excuse really weak. Be a better show then.

What is people’s reasoning going to be is AEW goes down even with no baseball? “It was always going to go down?”


----------



## The XL 2

Big opportunity with the Yankees rained out. They have to deliver tonight


----------



## MetalKiwi

1.2 - 1.3 I think it'll be this week.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Baseball has a rain out. Now nothing will stop it from a big rating


----------



## The Wood

A 20% drop would put them at ~900k. The over/under on that?


----------



## The Wood

Apparently they are closing with Jericho/Allie? Risky, considering neither is much of a hook for the casuals, it seems (sorry, Jez). Keeping that on the line and giving people Marko Stunt might be a one-two turn-off punch.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The numbers suggest another drop. They may stay above 1 million, but barely. 

That would be disappointing, given the lack of MLB. People have to admit that a wrestling heavy show without an emphasis on promos or character development doesn't draw. They had more promos tonight, but still not enough. Imagine having Moxley on your roster and not having him cut a live promo. The casual audience has no idea why he and Omega are even feuding.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I predict 1.3


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

They caught a break with the cancellation of Astros/Yankees. For no reason except a gut feeling, I think they could go under a million. I'd like to be wrong and to see at least 1.1M for a stabilized rating but I am an inveterate pessimist.


----------



## Blisstory

AEWMoxley said:


> The numbers suggest another drop. They may stay above 1 million, but barely.
> 
> That would be disappointing, given the lack of MLB. People have to admit that a wrestling heavy show without an emphasis on promos or character development doesn't draw. They had more promos tonight, but still not enough. *Imagine having Moxley on your roster and not having him cut a live promo. The casual audience has no idea why he and Omega are even feuding.*


Ive watched every PPV & Dynamite and I still dont know why the fuck they are feuding. Mox randomly shows up, jumps Omega and then you dont see them together again for what seemed like months. Ill never question AEW's in ring work but their story telling is below the shits. The majority of things are just so random.


----------



## V-Trigger

Blisstory said:


> Ive watched every PPV & Dynamite and I still dont know why the fuck they are feuding. Mox randomly shows up, jumps Omega and then you dont see them together again for what seemed like months. Ill never question AEW's in ring work but their story telling is below the shits. The majority of things are just so random.


Or maybe you don't pay enough attention. They have cut each one a promo on one another. Kenny jumped Moxley at Fyter Fest, match was scheduled for ALL OUT. Mox promo on Omega. Mox got hurt. Kenny cut a promo on him. Moxley returned after the injury and jumped him. Ain't that hard.


----------



## DOTL

I predict a slightly better rating than last time.


----------



## Blisstory

V-Trigger said:


> Or maybe you don't pay enough attention. They have cut each one a promo on one another. Kenny jumped Moxley at Fyter Fest, match was scheduled for ALL OUT. Mox promo on Omega. Mox got hurt. Kenny cut a promo on him. Moxley returned after the injury and jumped him. Ain't that hard.


lol and again you've yet to answer why. Double or Nothing was in what, May? Its now mid October and we still have no reason why Mox just randomly showed up and jumped Omega. I dont even care if they give it some cheesy reason like Mox felt he was better then Omega but he was being held down while Omega was putting on 5 star matches...You can feed me the who & where all you want but if you dont feed the why, then you dont have a story.


----------



## V-Trigger

Blisstory said:


> lol and again you've yet to answer why. Double or Nothing was in what, May? Its now mid October and we still have no reason why Mox just randomly showed up and jumped Omega. I dont even care if they give it some cheesy reason like Mox felt he was better then Omega but he was being held down while Omega was putting on 5 star matches...You can feed me the who & where all you want but if you dont feed the why, then you dont have a story.


If you don't want people to reply to your posts maybe you should write them on a white board.
>I don't know why they're fighting
>I don't care what reason they give

Blisscels are something else.


----------



## Blisstory

V-Trigger said:


> If you don't want people to reply to your posts maybe you should write them on a white board.
> >I don't know why they're fighting
> >I don't care what reason they give
> 
> Blisscels are something else.


So you dont know why they're fighting??...Exactly the point I was making. Your own stupidity just proved my point. Thank you.


----------



## V-Trigger

Blisstory said:


> So you dont know why they're fighting??...Exactly the point I was making. Your own stupidity just proved my point. Thank you.


I do understand the story. I'm just not wasting my time on people not interested on it.


----------



## Blisstory

V-Trigger said:


> I do understand the story. I'm just not wasting my time on people not interested on it.


Then please, for the 3rd fucking time...Enlighten us all old wise one cause I keep asking and you keep being a fucking stooge and bullshitting your way out of saying because you dont fucking know!!WHY in god damn sakes are they fighting? DO TELL!!!!!!!

We all humblelly await your wisdom!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Disappointing if they don’t do better then last week. There was no competition tonight so no excuses. Just means nobody is interested in them and they like WWE more. Turns out people can’t quit WWE. Very disappointing, we finally get an alternative but nobody wants to watch lol crazy! No room to bitch anymore for something new


----------



## Claro De Luna

AEWMoxley said:


> The numbers suggest another drop. They may stay above 1 million, but barely.
> 
> That would be disappointing, given the lack of MLB. People have to admit that a wrestling heavy show without an emphasis on promos or character development doesn't draw. They had more promos tonight, but still not enough. Imagine having Moxley on your roster and not having him cut a live promo. The casual audience has no idea why he and Omega are even feuding.


Which numbers? Are you talking shite again? I was following Twitter worldwide trends last night and they had around 3 different trends in the top 10 simultaneously, not to mention a few others in the top 20. I could not see any related to NXT. The Dynamite live discussion thread on Wrestling Inc currently stands at over 3.5k posts with NXTs with a mere 428 posts. This at least indicates that AEWs viewership was higher than NXTs. With the level of interest on Twitter I would say AEW did better than they did last week as it wasn't being as heavily discussed on Twitter then. It looks like NXT did worse than they did last week. It should also be noted that when I checked Twitter an hour after Dynamite had ended they were still trending in the top 10.


----------



## .christopher.

RubberbandGoat said:


> Disappointing if they don’t do better then last week. There was no competition tonight so no excuses. Just means nobody is interested in them and they like WWE more. Turns out people can’t quit WWE. Very disappointing, we finally get an alternative but nobody wants to watch lol crazy! No room to bitch anymore for something new


I don't watch or like the WWE and want AEW to succeed, but I'm not sugarcoating anything because of this. The shows are rubbish. Like, as bland as wrestling can get.

I said after the first week they'd continue to lose viewers the way they were going. Prioritising wrestling and have barely any interesting characters aren't going to bring in viewers.

People/casuals don't want long, overdrawn, no-selling spotfest matches taking up 98% of the show between performers with little to no personality.


----------



## RapShepard

Blisstory said:


> Ive watched every PPV & Dynamite and I still dont know why the fuck they are feuding. Mox randomly shows up, jumps Omega and then you dont see them together again for what seemed like months. Ill never question AEW's in ring work but their story telling is below the shits. The majority of things are just so random.


They're fighting because Moxley wants to see Omega is as good as advertised. Though you'd have to seen the "Road To" to know that. They certainly could remind folk


----------



## patpat

Blisstory said:


> V-Trigger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe you don't pay enough attention. They have cut each one a promo on one another. Kenny jumped Moxley at Fyter Fest, match was scheduled for ALL OUT. Mox promo on Omega. Mox got hurt. Kenny cut a promo on him. Moxley returned after the injury and jumped him. Ain't that hard.
> 
> 
> 
> lol and again you've yet to answer why. Double or Nothing was in what, May? Its now mid October and we still have no reason why Mox just randomly showed up and jumped Omega. I dont even care if they give it some cheesy reason like Mox felt he was better then Omega but he was being held down while Omega was putting on 5 star matches...You can feed me the who & where all you want but if you dont feed the why, then you dont have a story.
Click to expand...

 Mosley explained in a promo it's something he feels he has to do because omega is some kind of personal benchmark for him. Basically he was a badass motherfucked winning title in njpw. And now that they are in the same company he feels the need to get rid of him.
That's it simple and not oevercomplicated, 

As for other Moxley DID cut a promo last night, not a live one but I am pretty damn sure I saw a promo on the screen with mox talking and threatening people during his entrance. 
What I will agree with is that they need to do better when it comes to structure the promo and matches. The promo dont stand out enough ( in fact there were more promos even the lucha bros did some) but because of the placement it just feels like its match after match after match. 
But again its week 3, they might do more later and add more promo particualry if people do complain about it a lot. 
I just think a sit down face to face with mox and omega would be cool where they trash each other on the mic but that's something you only do close to the ppv. 
My complain is more for younger guys. Darby had a phenomenal promo but it was on fucking twitter. It should be on the show

Edit : well @rapshepard explained it better than me , and yes I agree they need to remind people. They are in front a fucking new audience made of people who didnt watch the pre dynamite stuffs.b


----------



## jordyjames26

It'll dive with the opening hour. Woeful start that indy talent that shouldn't be near network tv. Moxley delivered again with pac and omega. That undercard will kill them though. Omega, Jericho, cody, mjf, mox, Darby I'm hooked just kill the below tier stuff already. 

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

The first match was great.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Blisstory said:


> Then please, for the 3rd fucking time...Enlighten us all old wise one cause I keep asking and you keep being a fucking stooge and bullshitting your way out of saying because you dont fucking know!!WHY in god damn sakes are they fighting? DO TELL!!!!!!!
> 
> We all humblelly await your wisdom!


One had to guess its as simple as Mox escaping out of his prison, and then going after the biggest dog in his new yard.

Mox is a chaotic force of violence.... he needs zero reason to start a fight

That is what kicked it off


----------



## patpat

jordyjames26 said:


> It'll dive with the opening hour. Woeful start that indy talent that shouldn't be near network tv. Moxley delivered again with pac and omega. That undercard will kill them though. Omega, Jericho, cody, mjf, mox, Darby I'm hooked just kill the below tier stuff already.
> 
> Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


 yep I also thought opening the show with that tag team wasnt a great idea but again there was an angle so maybe it will work in the end. Cant wait to see how it plays out tho


----------



## Taroostyles

I can see people not liking Marko but that SCU/Best Friends match that started the show was crazy good and a fantastic opener. Probably the 2nd best match behind the Elite vs Mox/Pac tag.


----------



## Soul Rex

Forget about explaining why they are fighting, what about these wrestlers thoughts and personalities, I want to know who they are and what they have in mind.

Have Moxley cuting a promo about what he is and what he will do to Omega, dude why are they treating these wrestlers being so silent, it doesn't make sense, its gonna drive all viewers away.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Claro De Luna said:


> Which numbers? Are you talking shite again? I was following Twitter worldwide trends last night and they had around 3 different trends in the top 10 simultaneously, not to mention a few others in the top 20. I could not see any related to NXT. The Dynamite live discussion thread on Wrestling Inc currently stands at over 3.5k posts with NXTs with a mere 428 posts. This at least indicates that AEWs viewership was higher than NXTs. With the level of interest on Twitter I would say AEW did better than they did last week as it wasn't being as heavily discussed on Twitter then. It looks like NXT did worse than they did last week. It should also be noted that when I checked Twitter an hour after Dynamite had ended they were still trending in the top 10.


Google searches, which are far more correlated to viewership than the number of Tweets. They did all right in terms of trending on Twitter, which is why I said they may still be over 1 million this week, but it doesn't look like it will be by much.


----------



## looper007

Claro De Luna said:


> Which numbers? Are you talking shite again? I was following Twitter worldwide trends last night and they had around 3 different trends in the top 10 simultaneously, not to mention a few others in the top 20. I could not see any related to NXT. The Dynamite live discussion thread on Wrestling Inc currently stands at over 3.5k posts with NXTs with a mere 428 posts. This at least indicates that AEWs viewership was higher than NXTs. With the level of interest on Twitter I would say AEW did better than they did last week as it wasn't being as heavily discussed on Twitter then. It looks like NXT did worse than they did last week. It should also be noted that when I checked Twitter an hour after Dynamite had ended they were still trending in the top 10.


AEW Moxley and The Woody, are the negative lot who like to start trouble. Don't mind them until the official ratings come out.


----------



## rbl85

You guys wants to know a funny thing ?

The wrestlers with the biggest trend on google last night was Marko Stunt


----------



## patpat

Meltzer discussed with Alvarez the fact that Riho is over and is one of their best draw in ratings.


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> Meltzer discussed with Alvarez the fact that Riho is over and is one of their best draw in ratings.


She's just way too kawaii


----------



## Taroostyles

When I was at the show last week in Boston young girls were lining up to buy the Riho shirt they had. 

There is a large group of young girls into manga and anime and she is gonna be a star to that group.


----------



## Chan Hung

Hate to sound stereotypical but Riho should have anime type merchandise for kids. I wonder if theyll stay with 1 mil? I'm predicting sadly 900,000-1million


----------



## AEWMoxley

Yeah, Riho did surprisingly well in her quarter hour last week. They'll keep that title on her for a while.

I'm interested in seeing the quarter hour breakdown this week. Will be interesting to see if Jericho was able to pull in a good number for the main event against Allin.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Yeah, Riho did surprisingly well in her quarter hour last week. They'll keep that title on her for a while.
> 
> I'm interested in seeing the quarter hour breakdown this week. Will be interesting to see if Jericho was able to pull in a good number for the main event against Allin.


Imagine if the marko stunt match is the match with the most viewers XD


----------



## looper007

Taroostyles said:


> When I was at the show last week in Boston young girls were lining up to buy the Riho shirt they had.
> 
> There is a large group of young girls into manga and anime and she is gonna be a star to that group.


I love me some Riho, and she's the best women's talent they have working. Shida is a better worker and more badass but she's yet to make a mark with AEW. But it's scary that Riho isn't anywhere close to been the most charismatic or top worker from Joshi scene. But she's got over massively, could you imagine someone like Mayu, Hana or Maki Itoh got this kind of exposure Riho has. 

It shows me that an American crowd are all for a Joshi top star.


----------



## OmegaMark

I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped below 1M viewers for the live broadcast. The shine is off of AEW. They'll have them segment of devoted fans, but curious fans will have lost interest by now.


----------



## shandcraig

OmegaMark said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped below 1M viewers for the live broadcast. The shine is off of AEW. They'll have them segment of devoted fans, but curious fans will have lost interest by now.


Which is fine, They are still a crazy hit for such a new promotion. Its like wcw was around for a while and not even doing this well. Once things started rolling and it took a while they started taking off.But in fact even after things started rolling it still took some time.

They need time to truly become established and develop compelling storylines and gain viewers over time


----------



## NascarStan

Really happy to see Riho getting over with the audience, great talent that will open the door to more Joshi's coming over as well as shutting up certain idiots in the WWE forums that parrot "Asuka and Kairi don't speak perfect English so they never get over")


----------



## EMGESP

Where are the numbers?


----------



## patpat

Chan Hung said:


> Hate to sound stereotypical but Riho should have anime type merchandise for kids. I wonder if theyll stay with 1 mil? I'm predicting sadly 900,000-1million


he merits are girly to the maximum , no man can wear it but its doing incredibly well


----------



## rbl85

EMGESP said:


> Where are the numbers?


+/- in an hour


----------



## HankHill_85

Great episode last night, I hope it ticked upward based on there being a World Title match and a loaded tag with Omega/Page vs Moxley/PAC.


----------



## Bosnian21

Late predictions:

AEW - 900,000

NXT - 800,000

Imo that was AEW’s weakest show yet and I think Marko Stunt probably turned a lot of viewers off.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Bosnian21 said:


> Late predictions:
> 
> AEW - 900,000
> 
> NXT - 800,000
> 
> Imo that was AEW’s weakest show yet and I think Marko Stunt probably turned a lot of viewers off.


Fuck the predictions let's wait for the officials now.


----------



## Jonhern

AEW Dynamite gets .44 in the Key Demo and 1.014 million Total Viewers, 5th on cable.


----------



## Ace

Damn =\


----------



## AEWMoxley

Jonhern said:


> AEW Dynamite gets .44 in the Key Demo and 1.014 million Total Viewers, 5th on cable.


Exactly as I predicted last night. Over 1 million, but just barely.

They need to get back on track by putting the emphasis on their most charismatic and appealing characters. The show needs to revolve around guys like Moxley, Jericho, and MJF, with each having multiple segments each week.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Jonhern said:


> AEW Dynamite gets .44 in the Key Demo and 1.014 million Total Viewers, 5th on cable.


What's the source? Is this an estimate?


----------



## Bosnian21

Wouldn’t those be considered solid numbers?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Fuck! Keeps going down. WWE is laughing at them now. Dammit people.


----------



## Ace

Bosnian21 said:


> Wouldn’t those be considered solid numbers?


Solid but still a drop. They need to start getting viewers back with promos and angles.

Cut down on the wrestling on shows.


----------



## llj

Bosnian21 said:


> Wouldn’t those be considered solid numbers?




They're... OK. I think these numbers are pretty close to their core base at this point moving forward.


----------



## AEW_19

Do we think going forward that the numbers will be around the 1 million mark? Same numbers as TNT last week if you take out the TruTv rating.


----------



## DOTL

Where's the link?

I refuse to discuss this without one.


----------



## AEWMoxley

AEW_19 said:


> Do we think going forward that the numbers will be around the 1 million mark? Same numbers as TNT last week if you take out the TruTv rating.


No. If they continue with the emphasis on matches over promos and segments, their viewership will continue to decline.


----------



## Oracle

Next week will be under a mil easily.

They didnt exactly leave you wanting more


----------



## Bosnian21

My main focus is if TNT is happy with numbers. I just want them to stay on a big network. If 1 million with good numbers in the key demo is the average, +/- depending on the week, I would think TNT would be happy with that.


----------



## Kishido

What about NXT?


----------



## patpat

AEW_19 said:


> Do we think going forward that the numbers will be around the 1 million mark? Same numbers as TNT last week if you take out the TruTv rating.


 this they basically did the same last week excluding the trutv numbers. So basically that's their base on TNT.
Dont know why people are going crazy on this 
If anything this just shows they have a stable fanbase at 1m


----------



## V-Trigger

Kishido said:


> What about NXT?


712k


----------



## patpat

Oracle. said:


> Next week will be under a mil easily.
> 
> They didnt exactly leave you wanting more


 it was supposed to be this week....


----------



## V-Trigger

Bosnian21 said:


> My main focus is if TNT is happy with numbers. I just want them to stay on a big network. If 1 million with good numbers in the key demo is the average, +/- depending on the week, I would think TNT would be happy with that.


They wanted them to do 500.000 and are above a million. They are extatic.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Episodes need to be consistently good, viewership will continue to drop if they continue to give the less charismatic wrestlers screen time.

Marko Stunt getting tv time is embarrassing, the Women's division is a joke.

They need to concentrate on their elite performers, stick the crap on AEW Dark until they prove themselves good enough for tv.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'll wait until someone posts the Showbuzz chart, which still isn't up yet.


----------



## V-Trigger

Oracle. said:


> Next week will be under a mil easily.
> 
> They didnt exactly leave you wanting more


WTF BROS?! IT WAS SUPPOSED TO FAIL .


----------



## Kishido

V-Trigger said:


> 712k


Thanks do you have a link?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Guess WWE always gets the last laugh. Shit! Nothing will ever beat them. They’ll never improve their product because people only watch them. Very disappointing


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

That's not bad. Again, we still need another month or two before we can definitively come up with a trend.


----------



## raymond1985

Terrible number. 

Bad for the industry.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Either way, WWE isn’t rattled and the point is to get them rattled


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
1.014M [26th] [ - 0.004M | - 0.39% ]
0.440D [5th] [ - 0.020D | - 4.35% ]

AEW | NXT:
1.014M | 0.712M [ + 0.302M | + 42.42% ]
0.440D | 0.200D [ + 0.240D | + 120.00% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.726M [ - 0.082M | - 4.54% ]
0.640D [ - 0.040D | - 5.88% ]*


----------



## Maffchew

patpat said:


> this they basically did the same last week excluding the trutv numbers. So basically that's their base on TNT.
> Dont know why people are going crazy on this
> If anything this just shows they have a stable fanbase at 1m


It's people who don't understand how ratings for debuting programs work offering their two cents.

Unaware of any new show in the past two decades that hasn't lost viewers in its first month before settling around a consistent figure. The fact that AEW, a brand new promotion with largely unfamiliar names, has retained over two thirds of its viewership since its debut is excellent.


----------



## patpat

RubberbandGoat said:


> Guess WWE always gets the last laugh. Shit! Nothing will ever beat them. They’ll never improve their product because people only watch them. Very disappointing


 did you really expect a company that was created on january to start beating raw in the ratings in october?.....


----------



## Death Rider

RubberbandGoat said:


> Either way, WWE isn’t rattled and the point is to get them rattled


Fuck wwe. How about aew focuses on being successful? Expecting them to be close to beating wwe anytime soon aka raw and smackdown is silly


----------



## Dark Emperor

Poor number again, no point dressing this up. 30% of viewers are gone since debut and only 3weeks in. What happened to all the competition excuses last week?

All 4 Wrestling shows on major networks are on a downwards spiral. RAW, Smackdown, NXT & AEW.

Either people are not watching wrestling on TV and through other means or wrestling is just getting even less popular in America.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

RubberbandGoat said:


> Fuck! Keeps going down. WWE is laughing at them now. Dammit people.


Oh fuck off. NXT has atrocious demo. SD dropped by 1 million viewers in a span of a week. RAW was below 2 million just like two weeks ago.


----------



## HankHill_85

AEW - 1.014 million (1.140 million combined TNT/TruTV viewers last week)
NXT - 712,000 (790,000 last week)

The original number from TNT last week was 1.018 million, while some had to watch on Tru TV due to baseball, I guess? Based on that, they lost 4,000 viewers from last week, but based on the combined number, they lost 126,000 viewers from last week.

NXT lost 78,000 viewers from last week.

I wouldn't think TNT or the AEW management are all that worried. The number was always gonna trickle down over the first few weeks.

I think a solid indication of AEW's core number that'll remain consistent will be two or three weeks after the Full Gear PPV when they're not exactly building to anything.

As far as NXT's dwindling numbers, I personally think a sizable chunk of people are turned off by now having to watch commercials on the USA Network. I think the people who have started "abandoning ship" from NXT's live show are the ones who'll just catch up on it on the WWE network.


----------



## llj

We need at least a full year to see where AEW is trending. If they can increase their averages over 12 months, they are in good shape. If they continue to decrease over a year, then yea they probably won't be a threat in the future. I think they would be happy if they can maintain a set average over a year.

Right now they are just experiencing the newness wearing down. The real battle for them will take place over the next 12 months.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

NXT was number 30 on cable so AEW has been top five two out of three weeks. Not bad but still, their audience isn’t growing


----------



## V-Trigger

Dark Emperor said:


> Poor number again, no point dressing this up. 30% of viewers are gone since debut and only 3weeks in. What happened to all the competition excuses last week?
> 
> All 4 Wrestling shows on major networks are on a downwards spiral. RAW, Smackdown, NXT & AEW.
> 
> Either people are not watching wrestling on TV and through other means or wrestling is just getting even less popular in America.


Good thing that AEW keeps killing the supposed "cool" brand on the most important demo.

Good riddance.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

#5 in the demo with a .44 and barely over a million at 1014.

NXT as #30 in the demo with a paltry .20 and 712K viewers.

3/3 roud


----------



## Oracle

What tf is basketball wives...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Great rating.

we know the show's shortfalls and hopefully execs know as well.


----------



## SPCDRI

RubberbandGoat said:


> NXT was number 30 on cable so AEW has been top five two out of three weeks. Not bad but still, their audience isn’t growing


They should worry about arresting the downward trend. if they stabilize where they are they can be close to a million viewers and top 10 on cable in 18-49. That'd be great. 

If they keep going down week-over-week, they'll be taken off the air


----------



## Mifune Jackson

I don't think this is a bad number considering it's a new show and people were thinking it would only get 600k (or around what NXT is actually gettting) before it aired.

Looking like they'll drop below 1 million at some point, but that they haven't so far is good news. That they're routinely beating NXT is great news. 

Also, two weeks ago was BIG SEASON PREMIERE WEEK for every show. So, of course they're not going to reach those highs. 

AEW does need to build its audience, though, and they need a big angle/storyline to do it. "Inner Circle" isn't enough. They need something that'll keep people watching. This is where it would be great if they signed CM Punk or something, but that doesn't seem like it's happening.


----------



## A-C-P

Maffchew said:


> It's people who don't understand how ratings for debuting programs work offering their two cents.
> 
> Unaware of any new show in the past two decades that hasn't lost viewers in its first month before settling around a consistent figure. The fact that AEW, a brand new promotion with largely unfamiliar names, has retained over two thirds of its viewership since its debut is excellent.


Wait you are telling me that most people who post here on WrestlingForum.com do not understand how the TV industry works?


----------



## Chris90

They spanked NXT in the 18-49 demo.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Thats not bad. If they hold over or around a mil they're okay.


----------



## birthday_massacre

How are these poor numbers when they are still better than NXT?

WWE trolls are the worst.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I guess I got ahead of myself. I underestimated how many people hated WWE. A lot more loyal people than I thought who refuse to change. This’ll take a lot of work. If only they could get a million more viewers


----------



## rbl85

Actually it's reassuring last week the show was ranked 8 and this week the show is ranked 5.

Their did 1018 last week and this week they did 1014.

The 18-49 demo is the same than last week and they have the are the 2nd best show of the night with this demo (only NBA pre season beat them).


----------



## Maffchew

A-C-P said:


> Wait you are telling me that most people who post here on WrestlingForum.com do not understand how the TV industry works?


For my next incredible trick, I'll explain that grass is green. But only if you're lucky.


----------



## A-C-P

2nd in the most important demo for the night :bjpenn


----------



## RubberbandGoat

They’ve said 14 million have watched since week one so I don’t know where they got those figures


----------



## V-Trigger

RubberbandGoat said:


> I guess I got ahead of myself. I underestimated how many people hated WWE. A lot more loyal people than I thought who refuse to change. This’ll take a lot of work. If only they could get a million more viewers


WWE only has the +50yo geriatric audience that doesn't care about other wrestling and would watch the fed no matter what. You ain't changing that my friend.


----------



## Reil

Just a heads up, but I would expect AEW to drop below 1m viewers next week (NXT will also drop though). I don't think they advertised anything super significant for next week's show, combined with the fact that the World Series is airing next week, alongside the NBA season starting.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

RubberbandGoat said:


> They’ve said 14 million have watched since week one so I don’t know where they got those figures


Both of the first two weeks+immediate replays+all other replays. It's misleading.


----------



## llj

RubberbandGoat said:


> I guess I got ahead of myself. I underestimated how many people hated WWE. A lot more loyal people than I thought who refuse to change. This’ll take a lot of work. If only they could get a million more viewers



That won't happen overnight. Show some patience at least. WCW took YEARS before they overtook the WWE briefly. The WWE didn't start beating WCW again until about 3 years after Stone Cold was created. If they are down to 700k 4 weeks from now then maybe we can panic. If they can hold around 1 million from here on, that would be a positive.


----------



## EmbassyForever

A-C-P said:


> 2nd in the most important demo for the night :bjpenn


they beat Southpark. neat


----------



## birthday_massacre

RubberbandGoat said:


> They’ve said 14 million have watched since week one so I don’t know where they got those figures


World wide. the US is not the only place that matters you know lol


----------



## Death Rider

RubberbandGoat said:


> They’ve said 14 million have watched since week one so I don’t know where they got those figures


That could include international viewers


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Yeah I guess I’ll try to be positive. I just want them to succeed so bad. I have no problems with their booking. They’re giving people chances and everyone is over on the roster


----------



## Mifune Jackson

Reil said:


> Just a heads up, but I would expect AEW to drop below 1m viewers next week (NXT will also drop though). I don't think they advertised anything super significant for next week's show, combined with the fact that the World Series is airing next week, alongside the NBA season starting.


Mox vs Pac for AEW, which is a semi-big match for them. So now Moxley gets to be blamed for low ratings again, just like he was when he was champ on the 4th of July Raw in 2016.

But yeah, NXT will likely be even lower. And really, the relative ratings between the two shows are all AEW should care about. If they start getting lower than NXT or NXT creeps away their audience from them, then that's bad.


----------



## A-C-P

RubberbandGoat said:


> They’ve said 14 million have watched since week one so I don’t know where they got those figures


There are at least 5 replays of the show during the week on the Turner Networks during the week that I have noticed. Also I believe once aired you can stream the episodes on the TNT app.

Plus all the international products/channels it is on.

the 14 million # is including absolutely every platform the show is on.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

NXT looking at AEW'S 18-49 demo. :homer


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

NXT at 712k, I'm sure WWE is busy laughing at AEW :maury


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Reil said:


> Just a heads up, but I would expect AEW to drop below 1m viewers next week (NXT will also drop though). I don't think they advertised anything super significant for next week's show, combined with the fact that the World Series is airing next week, alongside the NBA season starting.


I believe Moxley is the main event next week. Will be very interesting to see the numbers with him in the lead role.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

NXT is actually in danger right? They keep going down the chart lol


----------



## McNugget

Over a million three weeks in with no PPV in some time, still strong in the demos, still selling lots of tickets... This is great. 1m is a really strong foundation to build on. They once again spank NXT in both total viewership and, more critically, in the 18-49.


----------



## V-Trigger

Next week is probably dropping below 1M but they should focus on stay around 1M and grow their audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Heh. That is good numbers - AEW is here to stay

As an aside - why does the US still use an archaic system like Nielson ratings - we ditched that in South Africa - a 3rd world country - 10 years ago because its so stupid

You would think the US has a better rating method


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Raw is top 10 in cable every Monday. AEW has been top 10 every week so far. Guess it’s a win


----------



## rbl85

I actually think that they won't go below 1M.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

So how do we grow? We should treat it like a political campaign. Knock on doors, Hans out flyers lol


----------



## EmbassyForever

Nacho Disasters @DisastersNacho
Looking at the ratings for Wednesdays last year, the only time TNT really seemed to be cracking the top 150 was when Champions League soccer happened to fall on a Wednesday and that wasn't prime time. Turner has to be happy to suddenly be hopping that high in the key demos.


----------



## TripleG

Being number 2 in the demo is promising, though next week is going to be rough with the World Series starting up. 

I'm close to DC and everyone around here is super pumped for the Nats.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> I actually think that they won't go below 1M.


Me neither - Regardless of what some would have you believe - AEW is built around the very definition of ‘loyal, rabid fan’

Peeps forget, some of us have been following these guys for years across different promotions

Stable base



RubberbandGoat said:


> So how do we grow? We should treat it like a political campaign. Knock on doors, Hans out flyers lol


Get people on their socials - that is where a lot of their build is currently - for good or ill

Its how they are wired


----------



## Bosnian21

Next week may be rough considering World Series and NBA.


----------



## EmbassyForever

btw what about the replay?


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I actually think that they won't go below 1M.


You're going to be disappointed.

They're barely over a million this week with no competition. They'll have a lot more competition next week.

Until they change the format of the show, they will continue to lose viewers. Having Moxley vs Pac next week is fine. Moxley has been the only guy who has consistently gained viewers in his segments and has drawn good numbers, but matches with one week build aren't going to lead to increases in overall viewership. That particular match may do well, but the rest of the show is still fucked going up against MLB and NBA.

Unscripted promos and creative freedom was their major selling point over the summer, and they've barely displayed any of this on TV. Their viewership won't stabilize around 1 million if this doesn't change. They will continue to drop way below that number.


----------



## looper007

V-Trigger said:


> Next week is probably dropping below 1M but they should focus on stay around 1M and grow their audience.


TNT original target was 500.000-750.000 viewers, and it's well above that. They are doing well for themselves. The crowds are there and they trend on Twitter during their shows. They get good views on YouTube with their videos. I think it's going to be fine as long as they don't drop hard below the two numbers I mentioned. Then it be seen as a success, the haters will go OTT like AEW Moxley and Woody and see it as a disaster but it's far from it.


----------



## Major24

3 episodes in and settling in at above 1 million viewers for a brand new company? You guys are out of your mind to say that's bad. TNT were not expecting these types of numbers to start off, Khan wasn't expecting these kinds of numbers to start off, yet 3 episodes in and they haven't dropped below 1 million. Great work. More competition next week so we will see the number that will tune in regardless.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

looper007 said:


> TNT original target was 500.000-750.000 viewers, and it's well above that. They are doing well for themselves. The crowds are there and they trend on Twitter during their shows. They get good views on YouTube with their videos. I think it's going to be fine as long as they don't drop hard below the two numbers I mentioned. Then it be seen as a success, the haters will go OTT like AEW Moxley and Woody and see it as a disaster but it's far from it.


Don’t worry Loops - one magical live promo from Mox and it’ll be at 2m easy


----------



## CRCC

1 MI as their core audience leaves me really optimistic.

We all see the room for improvement on the show, a lot of the wrestlers are probably not know to a lot of the viewers, plus WWE did a great job of making everybody think that wrestling is WWE and no one else.

With all those things against them, start from a million viewers is great.


----------



## RapShepard

So y'all spent all this week worrying only for them to do more than fine smh.



Oracle. said:


> What tf is basketball wives...


It's basically wrestling for women. They take exs and girlfriends of NBA stars and film them being the worst. Lots of shit talking and catty fights


----------



## looper007

RubberbandGoat said:


> So how do we grow? We should treat it like a political campaign. Knock on doors, Hans out flyers lol


Depends on how you see the show been, are you expecting it to be rivaling WWE RAW and Smackdown, then you be disappointed. If you are looking for a company to offer something different to WWE product, then as long as it doesn't fall as hard as NXT is, then you should be fine with what you are seen.

It's probably never going to be for the near future never going to get near it's original debut number. If it can keep to a million or 900.000, it's doing well.


----------



## Purple Haze

That's great.
1 million for a new brand is solid


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> You're going to be disappointed.
> 
> They're barely over a million this week with no competition. They'll have a lot more competition next week.


Wait wait so last week when i said that MLB might have been one of the reason for the drop, you (and some other guys) said that I was wrong that the MLB had no incidence on the rating of AEW.

But now they got the same number than last week because there was no competition….

Do you take me for a fool ?


----------



## RapShepard

Them being in the top 10, 3 weeks in row with NXT failing to break the Top 25 the last 2 is a good sign for them. Sure NXT is the 3rd brand. But them consistently doing 300k+ more viewers than them despite NXT having the machine is a good sign.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Wait wait so last week when i said that MLB might have been one of the reason for the drop, you (and some other guys) said that I was wrong that the MLB had no incidence on the rating of AEW.
> 
> But now they got the same number than last week because there was no competition….
> 
> Do you take me for a fool ?


It's the World Series. NBA is also very popular with younger viewers. Next week will most certainly hurt them, as will the fact that Dynamite is a wrestling-heavy show.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

1 Mil with those demo numbers is great if they can keep it going.


----------



## The XL 2

Too many long matches with these bad undercard guys. They have to get some angles going and get the angles already in place some heat, they need to spotlight their best promo, specifically Jericho, MJF, and Moxley and let them talk, they need to bring in some credible undercard guys, not these ragtag misfit indy guys who shouldn't have even been broken into the business and have no place on a national roster.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> So y'all spent all this week worrying only for them to do more than fine smh.
> 
> 
> 
> It's basically wrestling for women. They take exs and girlfriends of NBA stars and film them being the worst. Lots of shit talking and catty fights



Well the ALCS being postponed certainly helps. With that they probably go under a million and the narrative is different.


----------



## looper007

RapShepard said:


> Them being in the top 10, 3 weeks in row with NXT failing to break the Top 25 the last 2 is a good sign for them. Sure NXT is the 3rd brand. But them consistently doing 300k+ more viewers than them despite NXT having the machine is a good sign.


People weren't saying NXT was the 3rd brand when they said they were going to beat AEW. I love how some are know acting like WWE didn't set out to start a war lol. Not a knock on you RapShepard, just putting that one out there. 

I bet TNT are more then happy with the numbers and position they are getting. Dynamite is going to be a cult show until a upswing in wrestling happens or they find their own Hogan, Rock, Austin type star that will connect with a large audience. If the shows sell out or have good houses and they get critical acclaim and do great PPV's, I think gradually they find a small upturn in their audience. It's a long road ahead and we should be looking for AEW to be successful as wrestling fans.


----------



## looper007

The XL 2 said:


> Too many long matches with these bad undercard guys. They have to get some angles going and get the angles already in place some heat, they need to spotlight their best promo, specifically Jericho, MJF, and Moxley and let them talk, they need to bring in some credible undercard guys, not these ragtag misfit indy guys who shouldn't have even been broken into the business and have no place on a national roster.


They had two awesome matches last night, that Stunt match was very good. Omega/Mox/Pac and Jericho/Cody feuds have been the best thing on any wrestling programme. they are making their talent look like stars. 4 promo's were cut last night. Stop with this hard on for hating on smaller guys and shit, it's boring.


----------



## The XL 2

looper007 said:


> They had two awesome matches last night, that Stunt match was very good. Omega/Mox/Pac and Jericho/Cody feuds have been the best thing on any wrestling programme. they are making their talent look like stars. 4 promo's were cut last night. Stop with this hard on for hating on smaller guys and shit, it's boring.


Jericho is amazing, Jericho/Allen and Omega/Page vs Mox/Pac was good and hard hitting but the rest of the show was hard to watch. The opener was fun but it shouldn't have opened the show, it would have been okay in the middle of the show. The Marko Stunt stuff is embarrassing.


----------



## rbl85

looper007 said:


> People weren't saying NXT was the 3rd brand when they said they were going to beat AEW. I love how some are know acting like WWE didn't set out to start a war lol. Not a knock on you RapShepard, just putting that one out there.


Yeah how many times did we read and heard "NXT is what's best about WWE" (it's actually true)

And now it's "it's just the third brand" XD


----------



## The XL 2

Both AEW and NXT are really lucky that the Yankees game was canceled or this would have been really bad.


----------



## NXT Only

So wait promos will make people watch more LMAO. 

They’re an upstart doing 1M+ a week, probably more between streams and apps. 

But nah 15 minute promos will keep viewers glued.


----------



## rbl85

The XL 2 said:


> Both AEW and NXT are really lucky that the Yankees game was canceled or this would have been really bad.


That would have change nothing because a few people here told me last week that the people who Watch AEW don't watch the MLB


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> So how do we grow? We should treat it like a political campaign. Knock on doors, Hans out flyers lol


Good shows and good marketing on social media. I've seen the Orange Cassidy meme pretty much every day on my Facebook. Shit like that will at least get the brand out. Even if it doesn't make every viewer a watcher right now


----------



## Brodus Clay

Watched it, was a good wrestling show but still lack angles and promos so I expect they keep dropping in the ratings until they get some rivalries there, fortunately they have enough good mic workers for a 2 hour show.


----------



## NXT Only

The good thing about it is that the World Series is short term and won’t impact them for long. 

The NBA’s initial buzz will take some viewers but eventually the games become repetitive and fans just follow casually plus the big nights in the NBA are Thursday and Friday.

You gotta think tho what they’d be doing if NXT wasn’t live. It’s def taking a bit of their audience overall.


----------



## NXT Only

Brodus Clay said:


> Watched it, was a good wrestling show but still lack angles and promos so I expect they keep dropping in the ratings until they get some rivalries there, fortunately they have enough good mic workers for a 2 hour show.


How they hell does it lack angles? Also they had like 4 promos last night.

Y’all are psychopaths


----------



## OmegaMark

A lot of hype and money for a show that's doing sub-TNA-on-Spike numbers.

This was predictable, though. The first show was excellent. Show two was mediocre. Show three was just plain boring.

They're booking the shows for Meltzer-loving workrate marks, and that's a very limited audience. It's just not an interesting product to anyone other than that small segment of acne-prone Bronies.

Is this what AEW is going to be, or are they going to learn and grow? Sadly, I think it's the former.


----------



## rbl85

Brodus Clay said:


> Watched it, was a good wrestling show but still lack angles and promos so I expect they keep dropping in the ratings until they get some rivalries there, fortunately they have enough good mic workers for a 2 hour show.


There was 4 promo, how many do you want ?


----------



## rbl85

OmegaMark said:


> A lot of hype and money for a show that's doing sub-TNA-on-Spike numbers.


How old was TNA already ?


----------



## RapShepard

RainmakerV2 said:


> Well the ALCS being postponed certainly helps. With that they probably go under a million and the narrative is different.


Even if they dip under a million and let's say they hit NXTs number from this week. 700k people tuning into see a brand new wrestling promotion in 2019 is a win all day. If they were doing like a .4 or under that's when folk should worry. 



looper007 said:


> People weren't saying NXT was the 3rd brand when they said they were going to beat AEW. I love how some are know acting like WWE didn't set out to start a war lol. Not a knock on you RapShepard, just putting that one out there.
> 
> I bet TNT are more then happy with the numbers and position they are getting. Dynamite is going to be a cult show until a upswing in wrestling happens or they find their own Hogan, Rock, Austin type star that will connect with a large audience. If the shows sell out or have good houses and they get critical acclaim and do great PPV's, I think gradually they find a small upturn in their audience. It's a long road ahead and we should be looking for AEW to be successful as wrestling fans.


Lol no offense taken. As far as WWE not wanting to start a wat that's not believable. Them already being in talks to air NXT is believable. But I'm sure AEW expedited NXTs TV debut, and I can't imagine they expected to be losing because after all NXT still has their WWE name behind it. I'm as big of an E Mark as anybody, but they're certainly not thrilled about losing to Jericho and the Elite. 


But yeah I can't imagine TNT would be upset. It's out doing their normal shows in that slot and it's probably cheaper on their pockets.


----------



## Swindle

RubberbandGoat said:


> NXT is actually in danger right? They keep going down the chart lol


I was listening to one podcast and it was mentioned they are doing below the channel average?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RubberbandGoat said:


> Raw is top 10 in cable every Monday. AEW has been top 10 every week so far. Guess it’s a win


#2, #8, and #5 in the key demo in it's first three weeks. Quite a few Henny Pennys in this thread. :bryanlol


----------



## RainmakerV2

NXT Only said:


> So wait promos will make people watch more LMAO.
> 
> They’re an upstart doing 1M+ a week, probably more between streams and apps.
> 
> But nah 15 minute promos will keep viewers glued.


Dude. No one is asking for 20 minute HHH reign of terror promos. Stop talking bullshit. Why not have a little video package and a couple minute promo for Darby before his title match so the casual viewer actually knows who this painted weirdo is who's about to fight for the world title? Why not do a little 60 second segment of an injured Luchasauras backstage pumping his partners up and motivating little Marko to defy the odds and the haters?

Thats the kind of stuff were talking about. Not someone standing in the ring for 15 minutes. This format of match match match match is just boring. I love NJPW, but i fall asleep trying to watch most of their road to shows because sitting through 2 and a half hours of guys just doing moves is dull to me. Its dull to a lot of people.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. No one is asking for 20 minute HHH reign of terror promos. Stop talking bullshit. Why not have a little video package and a couple minute promo for Darby before his title match so the casual viewer actually knows who this painted weirdo is who's about to fight for the world title? Why not do a little 60 second segment of an injured Luchasauras backstage pumping his partners up and motivating little Marko to defy the odds and the haters?
> 
> Thats the kind of stuff were talking about. Not someone standing in the ring for 15 minutes. This format of match match match match is just boring. I love NJPW, but i fall asleep trying to watch most of their road to shows because sitting through 2 and a half hours of guys just doing moves is dull to me. Its dull to a lot of people.



There was 4 promo this week


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Beating South Park in the 18-49 is pretty damn impressive. That show is hot in the news and is in it's 23rd season. 

A bit concerned for next week though with nba starting and world series.


----------



## The Wood

The good news is that they didn’t drop 20% from last week again. The bad news is that they are dropping and not hooking new viewers.

When it comes to that 18-49 demo, it’s important to keep in mind how fluctuating it is with NXT very often being able to jump a whole bunch of places with a 0.01 increase. It’s also important to keep in mind that NXT airs on an OTT service the very next day. Without those numbers, it is presumptuous to say that one is a hit with young people while the other isn’t. I’m willing to bet a significant number of people (relative to the numbers) watch AEW Wednesday and then NXT Thursday.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> The good news is that they didn’t drop 20% from last week again. The bad news is that they are dropping and not hooking new viewers.
> 
> When it comes to that 18-49 demo, it’s important to keep in mind how fluctuating it is with NXT very often being able to jump a whole bunch of places with a 0.01 increase. It’s also important to keep in mind that NXT airs on an OTT service the very next day. Without those numbers, it is presumptuous to say that one is a hit with young people while the other isn’t. I’m willing to bet a significant number of people (relative to the numbers) watch AEW Wednesday and then NXT Thursday.


Can't we kind of say the thing about AEW with the instant replay just after the show ?

I already said that WWE should have put NXT on Tuesday.

That would have meant more viewers for AEW but also more viewers for NXT.


----------



## Chan Hung

RubberbandGoat said:


> Fuck! Keeps going down. WWE is laughing at them now. Dammit people.


NXT is barely touching 700 000 ....
No one is giggling


----------



## Mango13

What ended up being the rating and number of people that watched this week?


----------



## rbl85

Mango13 said:


> What ended up being the rating and number of people that watched this week?


1014 against 1018 last week (on TNT)


----------



## HankHill_85

It should be noted that this is strictly US viewership data for AEW and it doesn't include Canadian viewership numbers. We're the only other country where the show is broadcast live on TSN, and it's ticked upward since week one. Did 105,000 viewers for the premiere and 150,000 last week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Isolating the M 18-49 demo, AEW'S advantage over nxt is striking, .65 to .27. That is 141% higher. NXT did manage to win the 50+ .35 to .33 :vince$ :heston


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I mean as far as I'm concerned that's a good number so they're still doing good. Awesome.


----------



## Taroostyles

Only wrestling fans would spin a brand new show being 5th on all of cable in just its 3rd week as something bad.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Being 5th in the key demo, beating South Park is no mean feat

Being 2nd in the key demo for males, just behind NBA pre-season can’t be ignored

Cody, Kenny and the Bucks being who they are, will never be happy - but its no mean feat this


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Taroostyles said:


> Only wrestling fans would spin a brand new show being 5th on all of cable in just its 3rd week as something bad.


i overreacted at first but they’ve been top 10 every week. That’s amazing. And there’s a 150 list lol NXT keeps falling!


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah the demo here is really key, they are doing incredibly well with young males in the key age range. This is a great sign for ad revenue going forward. 

NXT is sliding the other way and appealing to the more niche audience, it's kind of ironic.


----------



## Chan Hung

NXT does great with 50 yrs or older adults. Wonder why??
And well 1 million is still solid for AEW


----------



## Geeee

RubberbandGoat said:


> They’ve said 14 million have watched since week one so I don’t know where they got those figures


I got the feeling it was overall brand number, so I think they may have also included the PPVs.


----------



## Taroostyles

This will probably be the core audience for awhile 1-1.3 million which to me should definitely keep TNT happy.

They will need a major story or debut to climb over 1.5


----------



## Erik.

It's a good number. Anything over a million is solid.

Keep up a consistently good product and those other million that watch WWE will tune in too.


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> This will probably be the core audience for awhile 1-1.3 million which to me should definitely keep TNT happy.
> 
> They will need a major story or debut to climb over 1.5


I think TNT will be happy as long as AEW do better than the previous program at this time.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> I think TNT will be happy as long as AEW do better than the previous program at this time.


They’re also milking 4 replays a week + getting PPV buys - something they weren’t getting with movies

One would have to assume they are more than fine with the current scenario - but that is obvs just my opinion

Edit: not to mention millions more views than what they’re used to on their Youtube channel


----------



## imthegame19

OmegaMark said:


> A lot of hype and money for a show that's doing sub-TNA-on-Spike numbers.
> 
> This was predictable, though. The first show was excellent. Show two was mediocre. Show three was just plain boring.
> 
> They're booking the shows for Meltzer-loving workrate marks, and that's a very limited audience. It's just not an interesting product to anyone other than that small segment of acne-prone Bronies.
> 
> Is this what AEW is going to be, or are they going to learn and grow? Sadly, I think it's the former.



Lol TNA spent a lot more money over number of years before they built up to that rating. Then what AEW has spent in 10 months. They are already a top 5 show on Wednesday night cable ratings lol.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

imthegame19 said:


> Lol TNA spent a lot more money over number of years before they built up to that rating. Then what AEW has spent in 10 months. They are already a top 5 show on Wednesday night cable ratings lol.


....... something tells me that guy is not really an Omega Mark :shrug


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

I'll admit, I'm a bit surprised by that number, as I expected them to fall under 1 million.


Objectively speaking, last night's show was a bit on the weak side. I feel as if, for the most part, Mox/PAC-Hangman/Omega was the only true "sell", as the main event was obvious and match quality aside, everything else felt relatively unimportant.


That said, I do expect them to fall under 1 million next week. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, as I seriously doubt they'll drop under 750k-800k for the foreseeable future but the trend is obvious. On top of that, this was the first week in which there wasn't a "cliff hanger" ending. It's like I said last night, it seems like it would've been smart to have something with Hangman or MJF at the end to lead to something next week. I understand you don't want to overdo the "show closing angle" deal but...I don't know. Felt like the show could've ended with _something _as a hook.


But, even if the decline continues for the next three weeks, I think viewership for the Full Gear fallout show should be at least back to where we are now, because on November 9 and in his own words, "history will be made and a legend will be born".


AND. I. CAN'T. WAIT!!!


----------



## Chan Hung

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> I'll admit, I'm a bit surprised by that number, as I expected them to fall under 1 million.
> 
> 
> Objectively speaking, last night's show was a bit on the weak side. I feel as if, for the most part, Mox/PAC-Hangman/Omega was the only true "sell", as the main event was obvious and match quality aside, everything else felt relatively unimportant.
> 
> 
> That said, I do expect them to fall under 1 million next week. And it's not necessarily a bad thing, as I seriously doubt they'll drop under 750k-800k for the foreseeable future but the trend is obvious. On top of that, this was the first week in which there wasn't a "cliff hanger" ending. It's like I said last night, it seems like it would've been smart to have something with Hangman or MJF at the end to lead to something next week. I understand you don't want to overdo the "show closing angle" deal but...I don't know. Felt like the show could've ended with _something _as a hook.
> 
> 
> But, even if the decline continues for the next three weeks, I think viewership for the Full Gear fallout show should be at least back to where we are now, because on November 9 and in his own words, "history will be made and a legend will be born".
> 
> 
> AND. I. CAN'T. WAIT!!!


Same. Thought 900,000 but they got a little over 1 mil
:mj


----------



## looper007

Bryan Alvarez just said on Twitter that the Marko Stunt match was the only thing to gain viewers last night.


----------



## Death Rider

looper007 said:


> Bryan Alvarez just said on Twitter that the Marko Stunt match was the only thing to gain viewers last night.


Please let that be true :heston :heston


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

looper007 said:


> Bryan Alvarez just said on Twitter that the Marko Stunt match was the only thing to gain viewers last night.


Are you fucking kidding? Personally I had no problem with the match, but I thought for sure it would lead to a drop, just from the way this whole forum was shitting all over it. That’s pretty amazing.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1184964640976986112
LMFAOOOOOO


----------



## AEWMoxley

looper007 said:


> Bryan Alvarez just said on Twitter that the Marko Stunt match was the only thing to gain viewers last night.


"One of the only," not "the only."

We'll find out tomorrow what the other segments that gained viewers were.

Either way, that just speaks to how bad their undercard is.


----------



## looper007

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Are you fucking kidding? Personally I had no problem with the match, but I thought for sure it would lead to a drop, just from the way this whole forum was shitting all over it. That’s pretty amazing.


I thought he was kidding but nope he isn't, some people are given him hell for saying it and he's blocking them lol. Crazy how offended some wrestling fans are over this, I liked the match a lot. I'm happy for the guy as he took some abuse from moron's on social media last night. Eating humble pie now.


----------



## InexorableJourney

AEW #5
NXT #30

NXT got reamed.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I could see Marko gaining ratings just out of the sheer curiosity factor. He really is a spectacle to behold. He needs to appear rarely or he'll lose that quality.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> "One of the only," not "the only."
> 
> We'll find out tomorrow what the other segments that gained viewers were.
> 
> Either way, that just speaks to how bad their undercard is.


Remind me what I told you earlier XD

If more people watched this match than the one with Moxley, i'm going to laugh so much


----------



## rbl85

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> I could see Marko gaining ratings just out of the sheer curiosity factor. He really is a spectacle to behold. He needs to appear rarely or he'll lose that quality.


Well he wasn't supposed to appear and he got told last minute that he was in the match.


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> Remind me what I told you earlier XD
> 
> If more people watched this match than the one with Moxley, i'm going to laugh so much


One thing that makes me happy is seen the tears from the troll "I Really hate AEW" AEW Moxley. Just puts a smile on my face .


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ha ha Marko the draw!


----------



## RainmakerV2

RubberbandGoat said:


> Ha ha Marko the draw!


Lacey Evans match gained 200k viewers two weeks ago.

Again. Be consistent.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

looper007 said:


> One thing that makes me happy is seen the tears from the troll "I Really hate AEW" AEW Moxley. Just puts a smile on my face .


Or the other gem

“I really want AEW to succeed, but.....”


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lacey Evans match gained 200k viewers two weeks ago.
> 
> Again. Be consistent.


He's joking dude, nobody think Stunt is a draw.

But it's so funny to know that AEW gain viewers during his match when so much people here said last night that a lot of people would stop watching AEW because of him


----------



## looper007

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Or the other gem
> 
> “I really want AEW to succeed, but.....”


That line, I think it's so overused by that lot it's just sad right now.

I blocked them but someone on here gives them the attention and i have to see their ramblings pop up lol. So they want AEW to fail. They think if they put AEW in their names or AEW talent that it should cover things up for them lol.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

The Inbred Goatman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1184964640976986112
> LMFAOOOOOO


Words cannot describe how much this warms my cockles.


----------



## deepelemblues

:heston


----------



## Bosnian21

God damn it’s hilarious that Marko Stunt’s match actually increased viewership. I’m honestly happy for him, he probably gets a lot of hate on social media so it must feel nice for him.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Luchasaurus is the star of that team. I bet he wins the title one day! Even if he’s tailored for kids


----------



## outsiders96

Anybody wanna guess what the rating could be without nxt on the same night


----------



## Best Bout Machine

outsiders96 said:


> Anybody wanna guess what the rating could be without nxt on the same night


I don't think the die-hard WWE fanboys would jump ship. Maybe 1.2m?


----------



## DOTL

Stunt drawing makes some sense. If people are just flipping through channels, seeing a dude that looks like a 12 year old fight a relative giant in a mask would make people pause.


----------



## Taroostyles

Surprisingly I don't think NXT is hurting AEW much at all. The demos show that they have 2 totally different fan groups and most of the AEW audience has likely jumped off the WWE ship long ago.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Reading some of these "ideas" people have for AEW to "increase ratings".

Thank the wrestling gods some of you will never run a promotion. :maury

At least AEW stayed above a million within the Top 5/10. NXT almost falling off the Top 30 spot is a sign of help. It's a disaster.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Moxley/PAC Vs Omega/Hangman gained the most, main event between Jericho and Darby lost viewers.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Moxley/PAC Vs Omega/Hangman gained the most, main event between Jericho and Darby lost viewers.


You saw it on WON ?

I wanted to subscribe to it but it says 9.99 when in fact it's 11.99


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> You saw it on WON ?
> 
> I wanted to subscribe to it but it says 9.99 when in fact it's 11.99


Yes, the tag match gained 4ish% in viewership.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> You saw it on WON ?
> 
> I wanted to subscribe to it but it says 9.99 when in fact it's 11.99


Looks like you didn't get your wish. That midget drew less than AEW's biggest draw. What a shocker.

Moxley continues to be the only guy whose segments have all consistently gained viewers, which includes a singles match against an actual jobber.

Darby Allin lost viewers again in a main event world title match. Time for everyone to admit this geek sucks.

They need to get the title on Moxley ASAP. I love Jericho, and he's been entertaining, but he's lost viewers in two of his last 3 segments, and FFTF drew fewer viewers than Fyter Fest. Moxley is by far their best draw. Put the title on Moxley, and let him run through this roster of geeks. Let him bury every single one of them until MJF is built up to take the title off of him.

Until then, this should be 'Dynamite starring Jon Moxley and featuring GEEKS.'


----------



## Chan Hung

looper007 said:


> Bryan Alvarez just said on Twitter that the Marko Stunt match was the only thing to gain viewers last night.


Holy crap he's not kidding actually checked a couple reliable sources and Marko stunt gain viewers and new ones at that lol holy crap that's funny


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Inbred Goatman said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1184964640976986112
> LMFAOOOOOO


:WTF2

Bryan with the banter surely :lol

Marko Stunt will end up being AEW World Champion by the end of the year.


----------



## Y.2.J

I shook my head so many times reading this threads pages from today.

People think the magic trick is doing promos to gain viewers. You don't just magically get viewers because PAC is doing a 5-10 minute promo in the ring. You grab people's interest when you create a story and you may not see the viewers increase instantaneously but its a build. It takes a while for things to catch on and build heat. I don't know if some people here are 5 years old when it comes to ratings. Try some critical thinking.

What AEW is doing right is the majority of matches so far has some sort of meaning or purpose behind it. You build on that, that's what gains attention. Slowly. 

With that said, I wasn't sure about TNT's expectations but reading this thread it was apparently around 500K. If that's the case, TNT must be very very happy with how things are going. Obviously there will be a trickle downwards, you don't think TNT expects this? 1M+ viewers, strong key demos, top #5 show on cable, those are all good things. Hopefully it can stabilize around the 1M mark and that would be excellent. 

People who think AEW should be doing 5 million viewers per week or gaining 500K viewers per week or else everyone is a flop and AEW is dead and buried, yadda yadda yadda...I have no words for you. How do you even function throughout the day?

ALSO BIG LOL TO THE PEOPLE SHITTING ON MARKO STUNT. Home run proof that half the people here don't know what they're talking about.


----------



## Chan Hung

I heard Bryan talking about Marko and u know hes kinda right Marko altho looks like shit was pretty okay in the ring. Lmao and hes a DRAW :lol
:heston


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Y.2.J said:


> I shook my head so many times reading this threads pages from today.
> 
> People think the magic trick is doing promos to gain viewers. You don't just magically get viewers because PAC is doing a 5-10 minute promo in the ring. You grab people's interest when you create a story and you may not see the viewers increase instantaneously but its a build. It takes a while for things to catch on and build heat. I don't know if some people here are 5 years old when it comes to ratings. Try some critical thinking.
> 
> What AEW is doing right is the majority of matches so far has some sort of meaning or purpose behind it. You build on that, that's what gains attention. Slowly.
> 
> With that said, I wasn't sure about TNT's expectations but reading this thread it was apparently around 500K. If that's the case, TNT must be very very happy with how things are going. Obviously there will be a trickle downwards, you don't think TNT expects this? 1M+ viewers, strong key demos, top #5 show on cable, those are all good things. Hopefully it can stabilize around the 1M mark and that would be excellent.
> 
> People who think AEW should be doing 5 million viewers per week or gaining 500K viewers per week or else everyone is a flop and AEW is dead and buried, yadda yadda yadda...I have no words for you. How do you even function throughout the day?
> 
> ALSO BIG LOL TO THE PEOPLE SHITTING ON MARKO STUNT. Home run proof that half the people here don't know what they're talking about.


This post should just be a sticky at the top - good words


----------



## ClintDagger

Solid number. Job one for AEW is to settle in at a consistent number hopefully at or above 1MM. They’ve taken strides towards doing that. Sure it would be great to be climbing week after week but that’s hard to do without ready made stars at your disposal. Just get established and then start to think about how to create buzz in the hopes of growing your audience.


----------



## The Wood

It’s actually not that surprising. It was either going to drop drastically or go up due to the geek show principle. People that think it’s inherently good or that those people weren’t mocking it relentlessly probably need to think things through. Watch the trends.

Ratings were fine after the Fingerpoke of Doom too. 

Ask those people to spend money on a PPV. ?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I think Mox should win the title as well! He’s a star! Very very good idea! But the build needs to be there. Too early for Cody. Cody/Mox feud is the money feud


----------



## BigCy

Although I was disgusted by Marko Stunt (still don't think he belongs in a ring) it doesn't surprise me that his segment went up due to the novelty of seeing something you don't see every day....a kid pro wrestling. A lot of curiosity views imo this time around but if his segments continue to garner attention and gain views then I must say they are doing something right with this kid. Enjoy your moment kid if you can keep it up I'll admit I was wrong and you actually can draw.


----------



## NXT Only

Maybe people are being entertained by AEW. It’s very possible. You haters don’t always have to try and spin things. Once again if you don’t like it, find something else to do with your time.


----------



## RBrooks

I'm staying positive for this one. I'm sure Khan and TNT will promote the shit out of AEW going forward. Yeah, a lot of fans checked out after the 1st episode. But screw them, we need new people watching the show, so I guess that's what they'll try to do, find new audience.


----------



## Zk29

This is not a surprise. You don't have 20 minute indie spotfest after 20 minute indie spotfest and expect to draw in casual viewers.

I'm also not surprised about Marko Stunt gaining viewers. Casual viewers want a spectacle. They didn't tune into WWF in 1998 for epic 5 star meltzer scores. They tuned in for Austin vs McMahon, This Is Your Life, and The Stooges vs The Mean Street Posse.

The mainstream public want to be entertained. They want stories and characters and outrageous moments that they have to see. It's not what they see when they initially tune in that matters. It's the follow up that hooks them and leaves them wanting to watch again.

TNT is supposedly happy with anything about 500k. The buyrates are what is going to make or break them at this point.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Credit to Riho for being a draw on the women's side. My only complaint is her attire. I don't like it. She should be wrestling in something like this instead:


----------



## Corey

... jesus. How's that even the same girl? :lol


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I bet Luchasaurus would gain viewers. That dude is huge plus a mask! It’s going to take a long time to gain an audience. I was too optimistic and overestimated their appeal. But hopefully people like it and stick with it or else wrestling is dead


----------



## RBrooks

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Moxley/PAC Vs Omega/Hangman gained the most, main event between Jericho and Darby lost viewers.


Thins makes sense. Honestly, Darby didn't even receive much reaction until he was doing spot with tied hands. People weren't so into him.


----------



## French Connection

Y.2.J said:


> I shook my head so many times reading this threads pages from today.
> 
> People think the magic trick is doing promos to gain viewers. You don't just magically get viewers because PAC is doing a 5-10 minute promo in the ring. You grab people's interest when you create a story and you may not see the viewers increase instantaneously but its a build. It takes a while for things to catch on and build heat. I don't know if some people here are 5 years old when it comes to ratings. Try some critical thinking.
> 
> What AEW is doing right is the majority of matches so far has some sort of meaning or purpose behind it. You build on that, that's what gains attention. Slowly.
> 
> With that said, I wasn't sure about TNT's expectations but reading this thread it was apparently around 500K. If that's the case, TNT must be very very happy with how things are going. Obviously there will be a trickle downwards, you don't think TNT expects this? 1M+ viewers, strong key demos, top #5 show on cable, those are all good things. Hopefully it can stabilize around the 1M mark and that would be excellent.
> 
> People who think AEW should be doing 5 million viewers per week or gaining 500K viewers per week or else everyone is a flop and AEW is dead and buried, yadda yadda yadda...I have no words for you. How do you even function throughout the day?
> 
> ALSO BIG LOL TO THE PEOPLE SHITTING ON MARKO STUNT. Home run proof that half the people here don't know what they're talking about.


I agree with most of your post. 
But, even after only 3 shows, it must be noted ratings are going down constantly. 
Last week was supposedly due to the MLB, but what about this week while the Yankee's game was rainout? 
What to expect about next week and the coming weeks?


----------



## Mifune Jackson

I was never expecting AEW to hit 1 million so soon, let alone hit it 3 weeks in a row. They aren't doing bad at all.


----------



## Kewf1988

OmegaMark said:


> A lot of hype and money for a show that's doing sub-TNA-on-Spike numbers.
> 
> This was predictable, though. The first show was excellent. Show two was mediocre. Show three was just plain boring.
> 
> They're booking the shows for Meltzer-loving workrate marks, and that's a very limited audience. It's just not an interesting product to anyone other than that small segment of acne-prone Bronies.
> 
> Is this what AEW is going to be, or are they going to learn and grow? Sadly, I think it's the former.


TNA actually GREW when they were that type of promotion, as their decline started after Hogan and Bischoff came and the shows became TOO promo heavy. Russo bringing Attitude era style programming to WCW only hastened their end too. You need to be DIFFERENT than the competition, and AEW is doing just that. If Dynamite started with a 30 minute promo every week, was overproduced, and only pushed bigger guys, they'd be considered WWE lite. All they need is that BIG storyline, like the Outsiders, Hogan's heel turn, and the NWO, as Nitro wasn't beating Raw consistently for MONTHS until that angle started (1995 was bad for both WWF and WCW, and WCW didn't start turning around until 1996 while WWF turned around the following year). AEW needs to continue putting on good show after good show and not panic and focus more on sports entertainment, like TNA often did and WCW did in 1999 when they got Russo. TNA was GROWING before they decided to become a "television show about wrestling" rather than being a "wrestling show on television", which it was the first year that they were on Spike and right before they brought in Hogan and Bischoff... AEW becoming the former out of panic would be a TERRIBLE decision.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

NXT Only said:


> Maybe people are being entertained by AEW. It’s very possible. You haters don’t always have to try and spin things. Once again if you don’t like it, find something else to do with your time.


As much as WWE and Vince are clearly out of touch with the landscape of pro wrestling in 2019, some sections of wrestling fans are just as out of touch in speaking for everyone else as to what they think should be/are draws in 2019. Unless you are WWE because of their past legacy and brand, nobody is really drawing any new fans at a consistent rate. The casuals, for the most part, have moved on other forms of entertainment. That's just the reality of today.

If people aren't entertained or interested in AEW (which is more than fine), there are other great alternatives like NWA, IMPACT, and MLW that people can watch to fill their preference in terms of wrestling. However, that would involve being proactive and liking something rather than finding ways to hate/concern troll about a company you supposedly "like". Imagine that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Moxley/PAC Vs Omega/Hangman gained the most, main event between Jericho and Darby lost viewers.


why would people tune into the main event if they were promoting Cody vs world champ Jericho so hard?

Like they could’ve done an interview with Cosy before the match where he discusses the main event and how he’d tackle it if Darby wins or if Jericho wins. Or even stuck him on commentary. 

Something that really irritated me about the show was that they wrote off Darby before the match even happened.


----------



## The Wood

BigCy said:


> Although I was disgusted by Marko Stunt (still don't think he belongs in a ring) it doesn't surprise me that his segment went up due to the novelty of seeing something you don't see every day....a kid pro wrestling. A lot of curiosity views imo this time around but if his segments continue to garner attention and gain views then I must say they are doing something right with this kid. Enjoy your moment kid if you can keep it up I'll admit I was wrong and you actually can draw.


Gaining views is not the same as drawing. If the rating is going down and, overall, fewer people are watching? Not really a draw. But I agree with the sentiment. 



NXT Only said:


> Maybe people are being entertained by AEW. It’s very possible. You haters don’t always have to try and spin things. Once again if you don’t like it, find something else to do with your time.


I think it’s more spin to say that people watching it means they’re enjoying it. A lot of people told me that R-Truth is one of the most interesting things about WWE. They couldn’t see how that is a problem.


----------



## NXT Only

The Wood said:


> I think it’s more spin to say that people watching it means they’re enjoying it. A lot of people told me that R-Truth is one of the most interesting things about WWE. They couldn’t see how that is a problem.


R-Truth is entertaining in his own aspect. That’s the role he plays for the WWE.

The shows should try and hit as many marks as possible and people love action, drama, comedy and emotion.


----------



## ElTerrible

optikk sucks said:


> why would people tune into the main event if they were promoting Cody vs world champ Jericho so hard?
> 
> Like they could’ve done an interview with Cosy before the match where he discusses the main event and how he’d tackle it if Darby wins or if Jericho wins. Or even stuck him on commentary.
> 
> Something that really irritated me about the show was that they wrote off Darby before the match even happened.


That´s actually a good point, unless they use it to their advantage in the future, cause then the shock will be much greater, when an upset does happen. 
It´s all about being aware of such things as a promotion, then they can be used to your advantage.


----------



## Jonhern

patpat said:


> did you really expect a company that was created on january to start beating raw in the ratings in october?.....


I from the very start thought they would be very competitive with the main roster sooner rather than later, I thought they would be around this demo to start, .3-.5. Raw has hovered in what the .7 range most of this year, and SDL on USA was hovering in the low .6 range. So AEW is still doing well, and really don't have to build their audience up as much to be competitive with RAW because they skew younger. They are not going to beat RAW in total viewers anytime soon, but that's not what matters on TV. The debut showed there is an audience out there that is interested, and that was very close to your typical RAW and better than your typical SDL, a .68, they just have to figure out how to get those young viewers back.


----------



## ashley678

my huge complaint is mostly that its 3 weeks in and we still havent even seen orange cassidy on tv yet. like there roster isnt exactly huge at all and people have been asking for them to expand and, and so far i can stilll pick out people who havent been on tv yet since dynamite started. that isnt good especially with how online people seem very interested in orange cassidy and how they hyped him at the ppv appereance and has been a ghost since.

people talk about wwe and inconsistent booking but wheres the followup to that ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ashley678 said:


> my huge complaint is mostly that its 3 weeks in and we still havent even seen orange cassidy on tv yet. like there roster isnt exactly huge at all and people have been asking for them to expand and, and so far i can stilll pick out people who havent been on tv yet since dynamite started. that isnt good especially with how online people seem very interested in orange cassidy and how they hyped him at the ppv appereance and has been a ghost since.
> 
> people talk about wwe and inconsistent booking but wheres the followup to that ?


Best Friends asked him if he’s going to be there this week, and he just went like ‘nah’ and got up an walked off  (on BTE)

Maybe that is his gimmick - never even bothered enough to have a match?

Regardless.... they have to start him off on Dark - 6 man with Dark Order maybe


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Best Friends asked him if he’s going to be there this week, and he just went like ‘nah’ and got up an walked off  (on BTE)
> 
> Maybe that is his gimmick - never even bothered enough to have a match?
> 
> Regardless.... they have to start him off on Dark - 6 man with Dark Order maybe


Jr also said that the 3rd SCU member was not allowed at ringside, thats why he wasn't dressed, so seems to be a rule for the tag tournament that there can be no valets or managers.


----------



## BlazeFury

An insert from an article I read on PWInsider:

"So to all you hardcore fans, who for years called for your voice to be heard, who said give us a product that’s not Vince and we will show you it will kick WWE’s ass, you are on the clock. You need to step up and stop the audience regression that AEW has seen week over week. If you allow the number to continue to drop, and it leads to the end of AEW, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don’t let that happen."


----------



## patpat

BlazeFury said:


> An insert from an article I read on PWInsider:
> 
> "So to all you hardcore fans, who for years called for your voice to be heard, who said give us a product that’s not Vince and we will show you it will kick WWE’s ass, you are on the clock. You need to step up and stop the audience regression that AEW has seen week over week. If you allow the number to continue to drop, and it leads to the end of AEW, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don’t let that happen."


 what the fuck is this shit? People arent forced to watch anything. And holy fuck wrestling fans and media dont understand rating do they ? :lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I would like to see the 1/4hour breakdowns for both AEW and nxt and am especially interested to see if NXT'S overruns are doing it any good.


----------



## rbl85

BlazeFury said:


> An insert from an article I read on PWInsider:
> 
> "So to all you hardcore fans, who for years called for your voice to be heard, who said give us a product that’s not Vince and we will show you it will kick WWE’s ass, you are on the clock. You need to step up and stop the audience regression that AEW has seen week over week. If you allow the number to continue to drop, and it leads to the end of AEW, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don’t let that happen."


What is this shit ?

Maybe the hardcore fans are already watching and it's just that there is not a lot of them...


----------



## V-Trigger

Stupid Sexy Kenny Omega


----------



## AEWMoxley

BlazeFury said:


> An insert from an article I read on PWInsider:
> 
> "So to all you hardcore fans, who for years called for your voice to be heard, who said give us a product that’s not Vince and we will show you it will kick WWE’s ass, you are on the clock. You need to step up and stop the audience regression that AEW has seen week over week. If you allow the number to continue to drop, and it leads to the end of AEW, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don’t let that happen."


It's not the viewers' fault. AEW needs to give them a reason to invest. They can do that by putting an emphasis on character work and promos over matches. But I'm not even sure that's enough by itself anymore. They need to ride their biggest and most consistent draw from here on out. Moxley needs to be given multiple segments per episode, the world title, and the opportunity to bury everyone in the male's division as punishment for not carrying their load. That might light a fire under their ass.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

ashley678 said:


> my huge complaint is mostly that its 3 weeks in and we still havent even seen orange cassidy on tv yet. like there roster isnt exactly huge at all and people have been asking for them to expand and, and so far i can stilll pick out people who havent been on tv yet since dynamite started. that isnt good especially with how online people seem very interested in orange cassidy and how they hyped him at the ppv appereance and has been a ghost since.
> 
> people talk about wwe and inconsistent booking but wheres the followup to that ?


cassidy will be on Dark


----------



## RubberbandGoat

BlazeFury said:


> An insert from an article I read on PWInsider:
> 
> "So to all you hardcore fans, who for years called for your voice to be heard, who said give us a product that’s not Vince and we will show you it will kick WWE’s ass, you are on the clock. You need to step up and stop the audience regression that AEW has seen week over week. If you allow the number to continue to drop, and it leads to the end of AEW, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don’t let that happen."


just proves people are full of shit


----------



## rbl85

V-Trigger said:


> Stupid Sexy Kenny Omega


Does that means that Omega was the biggest draw ?


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Does that means that Omega was the biggest draw ?


No. It means he was in a tag match with AEW's biggest draw. Dave was just writing some notes and using short form.


----------



## A-C-P

Riddle Huge for Teenage Boys :heston


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

That audience regression is because AEW is too SIMILAR to the WWE. It's a good show, a great show. Omega, Moxley are stars and will draw viewers. But the overall structure is TOO SIMILAR to the WWE


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> No. It means he was in a tag match with AEW's biggest draw. Dave was just writing some notes and using short form.


Dave clearly wrote that Omega was the most over with (i'm sorry i think i use the wrong words) with 2 demo


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Dave clearly wrote that Omega was the most over with (i'm sorry i think i use the wrong words) with 2 demo


No, he didn't. He was referring to the tag match, which was the most watched segment on Dynamite. We've known that since yesterday.

"Omega tag" = Omega tag match = Omega/Page vs. Moxley/Pac. This is what started the twitter thread about ratings:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185286160135753728


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> No, he didn't. He was referring to the tag match, which was the most watched segment on Dynamite. We've known that since yesterday.
> 
> "Omega tag" = Omega tag match = Omega/Page vs. Moxley/Pac. This is what started the twitter thread about ratings:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1185286160135753728


He wrote other tweets where he said "Omega tag strong women 35-49" and "Omega tag big males 18-34"


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> He wrote other tweets where he said "Omega tag strong women 35-49" and "Omega tag big males 18-34"


Yes, the tag match did big numbers in those demos.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Yes, the tag match did big numbers in those demos.


Then he's phrasing (i hope it's the good word) is bad


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Then he's phrasing (i hope it's the good word) is bad


They're just notes for what's to come in his next newsletter. He said he's going into more detail in the next issue. But yeah, that tag match did good numbers. It was posted here last night.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> I would like to see the 1/4hour breakdowns for both AEW and nxt and am especially interested to see if NXT'S overruns are doing it any good.


Quarter hour breakdowns are in the observer this week, I will post them when I get home if no one else has.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Quarter hour breakdowns are in the observer this week, I will post them when I get home if no one else has.


Thanks


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

"For the live show, and this is also based on selected markets, it was a slowly declining audience with the Best Friends vs. Scorpio Sky & Frankie Kazarian the highest rated segment. Ortiz & Santana vs. Alex Reynolds & John Silver and a Cody video package lost 5.0 percent of the audience. Britt Baker vs. Riho lost 9.2 percent of the audience. Pentagon & Fenix vs. Marko Stunt & Jungle Boy gained 1.4 percent. Kenny Omega & Adam Page vs. Jon Moxley & Pac gained 4.3 percent. And Chris Jericho vs. Darby Allin lost 8.2 percent."

My fault, there were no NXT quarter hours in the observer this week, we'll probably have those next week.

Here are the RAW quarter hours tho-

"In the segment-by-segment numbers, Becky Lynch vs. Charlotte Flair gained 265,000 viewers. Andrade vs. Ali and the draft picks lost 259,000 viewers. Viking Raiders vs. Robert Roode & Dolph Ziggler quarter first loss 176,000 viewers but the finish of the match and Aleister Black vs. Eric Young gained 144,000 viewers. Draft picks and the angle with the Street Profits vs. The OC lost 182,000 viewers. Ricochet vs. Shelton Benjamin and the Lana/Bobby Lashley segment gained 69,000 viewers. Asuka & Kairi Sane vs. Natalya & Lacey Evans in the main event segment plus the burning of the Firefly Fun house lost 132,000 viewers. The overall peak quarter was 2,699,000 viewers for Flair vs. Lynch. The low point was the main event and Fun House segment with 1,826,000 viewers."


----------



## Cult03

BlazeFury said:


> An insert from an article I read on PWInsider:
> 
> "So to all you hardcore fans, who for years called for your voice to be heard, who said give us a product that’s not Vince and we will show you it will kick WWE’s ass, you are on the clock. You need to step up and stop the audience regression that AEW has seen week over week. If you allow the number to continue to drop, and it leads to the end of AEW, you have no one to blame but yourselves. Don’t let that happen."


Who wrote that? Why are we being guilt tripped into enjoying all of this show?


----------



## Cult03

V-Trigger said:


> Stupid Sexy Kenny Omega


How are these even measured? If I watch it at my girlfriends house does it say she watched it?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Vince's reaction if AEW keeps beating nxt:


----------



## imthegame19

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> That audience regression is because AEW is too SIMILAR to the WWE. It's a good show, a great show. Omega, Moxley are stars and will draw viewers. But the overall structure is TOO SIMILAR to the WWE


I don't think it has anything to do with being too similar to WWE at all. AEW much more serious product, with much less promos, consistent 10 plus minute matches that almost always have a clear winner. So that is plenty different then what WWE does.


If you look at the ratings it's simple to see the problem. AEW has too many guys that people just don't know or care about yet. Like they know Jericho, they know Moxley as Ambrose and there was plenty of buzz about him leaving and changing his name. While they remember Cody from WWE and he had big indie buzz on internet about him from ROH/New Japan. Even Neville had strong push during last year of WWE run. With being dominant cruiserweight champ and getting big segments on Raw.



Omega/Bucks maybe a lot of people didn't see wrestle a ton. But there was plenty of buzz on internet etc over the years. That most people watching the show heard of them and view them as something important. Even Lucha Bros have a little indie/internet buzz as well. Even if people never saw them before AEW. 


Now of course Dustin Rhodes is a familiar face from being Goldust for 20 plus years on WWE. But since he's been midcard guy his whole career he's not going to be viewed as more then that. Spears people remember from NXT and jobber on Smackdown. So like Dustin he's familiar face but people only care so much about him right now. Same goes for SCU from Daniels/Kaz TNA. Even people remember Hager as Swagger but AEW has yet to do much to make people care. Which should change in a few weeks after his MMA fight. 


So when people tune in to watch they know/care about Jericho, Moxley, Cody, Omega, Young Bucks, Pac and somewhat guys like Dustin, Spears, SCU and Lucha Bros. Even many wrestling fans who watched WWE or even TNA in the past. Don't have any idea who Darby Allin, Adam Page, Joey Janela, Jimmy Havoc, Sammy Guvevera, Kip Sabian, Cima, Santana, Ortiz, Private Party, Jungle Boy, Marko Stunt, Dark Order etc are. Heck there's plenty who still don't know much about MJF. But like Adam Page there probably enough buzz on them out there by now.


Well it takes time for audience to care/buy into new wrestlers they never heard of. Novody cared about Hardy Boyz in 1998 or guy like Edge back then. It took years to build guys up. AEW is trying to build up guys like Darby/Sammy fast by putting them in big matches with top guys. Hoping fans will see that and buy into that. Sadly it's not thAt easy in 2019. People instead of saying oh Darby wrestled Cody and now Jericho for title. He must be young up and coming star. Instead they say who's this Darby Allin guy? They say I never heard of him there no way Jericho losing to him and they turn the show off.


This is why people gotta remember AEW is a start up company. It's gonna take time for more wrestling fans to buy into majority of their roster or for them to add more talent. People like to bring up TNA doing 1.5-2 million viewers. Well that's people saw AJ/Joe for numbers of years. Along with them adding 15-20 plus ex WCW/WWE guys. They had 80-90 percent full roster of wrestling fans knew. There's more people in AEW don't know then they do.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I was looking at google trend numbers, and found something kind of interesting. Whenever RAW or Smackdown is airing, AEW sees a pretty significant interest in searches(not nearly as significant as when the show is airing, but significant nonetheless), however, when AEW is airing, there is no added interest in WWE in searches. I don't really know what that means, but just an observation.


----------



## Claro De Luna

*Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Surely this would prevent AEW from drawing less than a million viewers? Is there even a chance of NXT getting cancelled? The viewership is piss poor let's face it. Thoughts please.


----------



## Jazminator

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

AEW might get a small ratings boost if NXT were to be cancelled, but it wouldn’t last long. NXT’s presence actually benefits AEW because competition inspires a better product. NXT gives AEW a barometer to gauge success.

No one should want NXT to get canceled. They’re a great promotion that puts out a great product.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

It would go up some I would imagine 40-60% of NXT's viewership would tune in. The question is what is NXT's actual audience? It was near 1.2M and now has barely 700K. Where will is settle at? 600K? 550K?

AEW will likely settle around where they are for the time being. They are a new product and I expect them to have a much higher chance of actually rising ratings because they can bring in older fans. I know someone who was watching NXT (which is on Channel 40) and at the one commercial they changed channel and ended up watching the last 30 minutes of AEW (on channel 41). People are still finding out about AEW and they have been putting out a less sanitized and more energetic/organic show than the staleness that haunts the WWE brand.


----------



## CRCC

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Yes, it would. People who watch NXT could easily be interested in the AEW product.

That was the reason WWE why put NXT to go head to head with AEW, wasn't it?


----------



## .christopher.

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Maybe a bit but not by much.

The people who still watch the WWE are the kind that live inside the bubble; oblivious and uninterested in other wrestling promotions.


----------



## Claro De Luna

*Live event ticket sales updates please*

How are the sales going on the tickets released so far for all events? I know that the first 3 Dynamite shows were sold out but what about the shows thereafter? Next week's show is the first show after the 3 sell outs, if sales have been poor then this will be reflected on camera.


----------



## Deathiscoming

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



CRCC said:


> Yes, it would. People who watch NXT could *easily be interested in the AEW* product.
> 
> That was the reason WWE why put NXT to go head to head with AEW, wasn't it?


I'm not sure I'd be interested in watching AEW over NxT based on whatever I've seen from AEW so far. Reason is, even though NxT is something unexplored and new for me, I'm still aware that I'd enjoy and invest in guys like Adam Cole, Matt Riddle, Ciampa, Gargano, Cameron Grimes, Velveteen Dream, Pete Dunne, Walter, and my personal favorite-Punishment Martinez/Damien Priest and that's just mostly their mainevent level guys(except Grimes). I've never even seen the rest of the NxT guys, tag teams etc.

But AEW, the only people I see worth watching and investing in are Hangman Page, Jericho, PAC, Jake Hager, and MAY BE Kenny Omega. That's it. No interest in their tag teams except Lucha Bros.

Frankly, with stuff like Marko Stunt, Jungle Boy, Darby Allin..I'm unsure as to whether AEW will give me an incentive to watch. Especially since I don't particularly like Cody, Moxley and Young Bucks.


----------



## ste1592

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



Jazminator said:


> AEW might get a small ratings boost if NXT were to be cancelled, but it wouldn’t last long. NXT’s presence actually benefits AEW because competition inspires a better product. NXT gives AEW a barometer to gauge success.
> 
> No one should want NXT to get canceled. They’re a great promotion that puts out a great product.


I don't think AEW would change much if NXT got cancelled, it's not like they're trying to compete with NXT, they try to compete with WWE as a whole.

Sure, they could in theory half-ass it because they know whoever wants to watch wrestling on Wednesday would watch them, but let's be honest, if people want half-assed stuff, they'd stick to RAW and Smackdown.

AEW has to prove they can consistently provide an entertaining product, whether they have another WWE show on the same day or not. The challenge is not about being the best show on Wedsneday night, it's about being the best show period.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: Live event ticket sales updates please*

Next week looks around 70% sold - just cheap seats left at 20 bucks


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Who knows, WWF numbers certainly didn't go up when WCW got cancelled and that's the only real reference point for a situation like this.


----------



## TAC41

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Of course it would. Just like numbers would drastically plummet if NXT ever gets pulled from WWE network and only airs live on USA. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TAC41

*Re: Live event ticket sales updates please*

Scalpers learned their lesson about mass buying tickets (which is the only reason the same day sellouts happened) and now sales are slow. None of their currently scheduled events are anywhere close to selling out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Not Lying

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



RapShepard said:


> Who knows, WWF numbers certainly didn't go up when WCW got cancelled and that's the only real reference point for a situation like this.


Which honestly weird, just 2m people tuning out of wrestling like that.
No more monday night wars? k bye.


----------



## Taroostyles

How is AEW similar to WWE at all? 

-Unscripted promos
-TV-14 
-Edgy
-Adult language
-Dynamic characters 
-New Stars 
-Giving fans what they cheer for 
-Equality based 

All things that make them completely different and I could keep going. The 2 products couldn't be further apart.


----------



## Taroostyles

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

It's because different people like different things. Plus that was the end of competition which to alot of people made wrestling much less interesting.

Giving people variety gives them a choice which makes them more invested in that product. Take that away and say "Heres what you're getting like it" doesnt quite have the same appeal.


----------



## Soul Rex

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



The Definition of Technician said:


> Which honestly weird, just 2m people tuning out of wrestling like that.
> No more monday night wars? k bye.


They had the same fans,who were switching channels?


----------



## V-Trigger

Taroostyles said:


> How is AEW similar to WWE at all?
> 
> -Unscripted promos
> -TV-14
> -Edgy
> -Adult language
> -Dynamic characters
> -New Stars
> -Giving fans what they cheer for
> -Equality based
> 
> All things that make them completely different and I could keep going. The 2 products couldn't be further apart.


Don't even bother. He doesn't get it.


----------



## Claro De Luna

*Re: Live event ticket sales updates please*

Any more updates? Looks like next weeks show should be a near sell out with walk up purchases.


----------



## looper007

Taroostyles said:


> How is AEW similar to WWE at all?
> 
> -Unscripted promos
> -TV-14
> -Edgy
> -Adult language
> -Dynamic characters
> -New Stars
> -Giving fans what they cheer for
> -Equality based
> 
> All things that make them completely different and I could keep going. The 2 products couldn't be further apart.


I just think the haters are wanting to believe it is to fit their agenda to be honest, it's boring. AEW is different to WWE, and it's not even close.

Championship is falling into the Woody and AewMoxley boat of delusion.


----------



## ElTerrible

Wrestling is a mountain. WWE is an avalanche of shit, and AEW could be the best rescue crew with the most innovative shovels in the world. They´d still get buried by the avalanche of shit, cause it´s just too big. That´s probably the most realistic description of the situation. :crying:


----------



## Jonhern

patpat said:


> what the fuck is this shit? People arent forced to watch anything. And holy fuck wrestling fans and media dont understand rating do they ? :lol


Nope, because they are doing fine lol. Plus if you are not a Nielson household doesn't matter if you watch or not.


----------



## Jonhern

Cult03 said:


> How are these even measured? If I watch it at my girlfriends house does it say she watched it?


No, you are not counted unless you are a Nielson household. It's a random set of people they pick that reflects the demographics of the country and local area. It also only counts if they watch it at home, although that will change next year for national ratings. If your girlfriend were in a Nielson household for instance it would only count her, not you.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: Live event ticket sales updates please*



Claro De Luna said:


> Any more updates? Looks like next weeks show should be a near sell out with walk up purchases.


More of less 80% of the tickets are sold


----------



## Bosnian21

Meltzer says TNT are very happy with the ratings. 

https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1185639984486682624?s=21


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bosnian21 said:


> Meltzer says TNT are very happy with the ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1185639984486682624?s=21


The ratings aren't bad for a new show at all. But they also can't keep falling, either.

With people tuning out of WWE in large numbers, they need to convert those people into AEW fans.

Something that doesn't get talked about much is that TNT is likely not paying them much on this current deal. So it makes sense that they are happy with these numbers based on what they are paying AEW. Having said that, AEW will need a bigger deal the next time around, and that may not happen without bigger ratings.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> How is AEW similar to WWE at all?
> 
> -Unscripted promos
> -TV-14
> -Edgy
> -Adult language
> -Dynamic characters
> -New Stars
> -Giving fans what they cheer for
> -Equality based
> 
> All things that make them completely different and I could keep going. The 2 products couldn't be further apart.


-There have been no outstanding promos.
-WWE has been uncensored before. What the fuck does a content rating even mean?
-Lol, it’s not edgy. Take a pill, cunt. 
-Ooh, adult language. Bitch. 
-Who is dynamic? Dr Britt? Angry Max? Old Jericho? Skater Darby?
-They have made no stars. 
-The fans are a problem.
-My soap is equality-based. 

The fuck is this noise? They are white-noise, pyro, awful music, psychologically lacking wrestling just like WWE. 



Bosnian21 said:


> Meltzer says TNT are very happy with the ratings.
> 
> https://twitter.com/davemeltzerwon/status/1185639984486682624?s=21


For now they should be. Let’s see how happy they are in six months. This is likely the hottest AEW is going to get.


----------



## Taroostyles

The Wood said:


> -There have been no outstanding promos.
> -WWE has been uncensored before. What the fuck does a content rating even mean?
> -Lol, it’s not edgy. Take a pill, cunt.
> -Ooh, adult language. Bitch.
> -Who is dynamic? Dr Britt? Angry Max? Old Jericho? Skater Darby?
> -They have made no stars.
> -The fans are a problem.
> -My soap is equality-based.
> 
> The fuck is this noise? They are white-noise, pyro, awful music, psychologically lacking wrestling just like WWE.
> 
> 
> 
> For now they should be. Let’s see how happy they are in six months. This is likely the hottest AEW is going to get.


Hows life under the bridge?


----------



## V-Trigger

Stop replying to baits.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Co-sign. You all should know better by now.


----------



## llj

The reality is that AEW is still overachieving expectations by a significant amount, and cost TNT much less to buy, while NXT and Smackdown are underachieving MASSIVELY.

Once we find out AEW's floor, we should be able to better assess its future growth potential. But so far, things still look good for them even with the drops they've had week to week.


----------



## Alright_Mate

The Wood said:


> -Lol, it’s not edgy. Take a pill, cunt.
> -Ooh, adult language. Bitch.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Either way AEW will beat SD this upcoming week so there’s that. Also, how did the replay do?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

It will most definitely not beat Smackdown this upcoming week. Both are opposed by the World Series and Smackdown would have to shed about 1.5 million viewers just to get where AEW was this week.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> It will most definitely not beat Smackdown this upcoming week. Both are opposed by the World Series and Smackdown would have to shed about 1.5 million viewers just to get where AEW was this week.


FS1 never gets over 2million


----------



## Ace

The Wood has _some_ valid concerns. 

I want AEW to succeed as much as everyone else here, it doesn't mean they're immune to criticism and some of what The Wood has pointed out is fair.

I'm another who wants to see more promos and depth to be given to feuds.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I’m sure they will. Every match has a story though so promos aren’t always needed and you can see most of it on Dark or YouTube.


----------



## Death Rider

RubberbandGoat said:


> Either way AEW will beat SD this upcoming week so there’s that. Also, how did the replay do?


Unless smackdown's ratings fall off a cliff no they won't lol.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Death Rider said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Either way AEW will beat SD this upcoming week so there’s that. Also, how did the replay do?
> 
> 
> 
> Unless smackdown's ratings fall off a cliff no they won't lol.
Click to expand...

ha ha you’re serious? SD won’t be on Fox next week. They’re getting only 1.5 million viewers. Not everyone has FS1


----------



## Death Rider

RubberbandGoat said:


> ha ha you’re serious? SD won’t be on Fox next week. They’re getting only 1.5 million viewers. Not everyone has FS1


So still above this week? SD will still beat AEW this week which is fine. Unless AEW has a massive jump and Smackdown nose dives it ain't beating it


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Death Rider said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> ha ha you’re serious? SD won’t be on Fox next week. They’re getting only 1.5 million viewers. Not everyone has FS1
> 
> 
> 
> So still above this week? SD will still beat AEW this week which is fine. Unless AEW has a massive jump and Smackdown nose dives it ain't beating it
Click to expand...

immjust saying there’s a real shot. FS1 shows barely get a million most of the time


----------



## patpat

Ace said:


> The Wood has _some_ valid concerns.
> 
> I want AEW to succeed as much as everyone else here, it doesn't mean they're immune to criticism and some of what The Wood has pointed out is fair.
> 
> I'm another who wants to see more promos and depth to be given to feuds.


 yes I think pretty much everyone agrees, but they are 3 weeks in, 3 weeks. And being a fucking adshole who call people cunt because they have a different view is still stupid.
Going around acting like they have been there for 2 years and nothing has changed yet isnt called having a point, it's called jumping to conclusion based on a very limited amount of material to analyse. 


And the problems arent the promos, it's their placement, the way they are implemented in the show that are bothering. They stuck all the promo stuffs together and then its match after match after match. Thats the real issue 
They should also add some post match interviews.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

How much more ‘depth’ do people expect to be given to characters and feuds in only three weeks? Good Christ people, they’re doing exactly that SLOWLY, a few characters and one feud at a time, _and they’re doing it THEIR way_, not the lazy-ass, overly-scripted WWE way. They’re letting the wrestlers do their own developing using many different vehicles, _including a few promos_, not through the retarded musings of a bunch of monkeys behind typewriters and one senile old fuck. 

You want something different from WWE, you bitch and scream that it’s still too much like WWE, and then turn around and want them to do more of exactly what WWE does. 





















RubberbandGoat said:


> immjust saying there’s a real shot. FS1 shows barely get a million most of the time


Don’t see it happening. Possible, but highly unlikely. I think there’s a good chance Dynamite goes under 1 million this week. I think it’s going to take a month or two for AEW to stabilize its core viewers and get its name circulated among more fans before it has any chance of growing that rating.


----------



## V-Trigger

Ace said:


> The Wood has _some_ valid concerns.


No, he/she doesn't watch the shows yet bitch about them nonstop.


----------



## Taroostyles

Ace said:


> The Wood has _some_ valid concerns.
> 
> I want AEW to succeed as much as everyone else here, it doesn't mean they're immune to criticism and some of what The Wood has pointed out is fair.
> 
> I'm another who wants to see more promos and depth to be given to feuds.


Except he openly admits to not even watching the stuff hes criticizing and then resorts to childish name calling.

That pretty much negates any valid criticism for me.


----------



## rbl85

If you don't watch the product, you should not complain about it.


----------



## RapShepard

V-Trigger said:


> No, he/she doesn't watch the shows yet bitch about them nonstop.





Taroostyles said:


> Except he openly admits to not even watching the stuff hes criticizing and then resorts to childish name calling.
> 
> That pretty much negates any valid criticism for me.





rbl85 said:


> If you don't watch the product, you should not complain about it.


Happens in the WWE section everyday. It's bull shit, but folk will claim to know enough from clips and match results to criticize. Get used to it


----------



## Death Rider

RapShepard said:


> Happens in the WWE section everyday. It's bull shit, but folk will claim to know enough from clips and match results to criticize. Get used to it


I mean depends on the match result. I knew the HIAC main event ended in DQ before watching it but I knew it was awful before seeing it due to just that.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



Death Rider said:


> I mean depends on the match result. I knew the HIAC main event ended in DQ before watching it but I knew it was awful before seeing it due to just that.


That was such an interesting match it went from their potential MotY to one of their WoaT in a span of minutes lol.

But with AEW being considered big, folk got to get used to it getting tons of criticism some fair some unfair


----------



## Death Rider

RapShepard said:


> That was such an interesting match it went from their potential MotY to one of their WoaT in a span of minutes lol.


Yeah I had unsubbed from the network earlier in the week and Beatles told me to watch it as it was so bad. It actually was starting out well and then it went so far off the cliff. It might be the worst match I have ever seen no hyperbold.


----------



## looper007

RapShepard said:


> Happens in the WWE section everyday. It's bull shit, but folk will claim to know enough from clips and match results to criticize. Get used to it


What I also found funny is Woody when the NXT ratings went down, he was telling everyone to give them time as they have a long term goal lol. Sorry you have a few on here just wanting to crap on everything, and then you have some people like yourself that has criticism's but also enjoy the product. 

Yeah this site is definitely up there for just moaning for moaning sake.



Ace said:


> The Wood has _some_ valid concerns.


He/She doesn't though, he doesn't watch the shows and completely shits on everything. While he says AEW is in trouble cause of the ratings, while on NXT ratings thread he's telling people to give them a chance and that they have big plans ahead. The person is the biggest troll on here.


----------



## RapShepard

Death Rider said:


> Yeah I had unsubbed from the network earlier in the week and Beatles told me to watch it as it was so bad. It actually was starting out well and then it went so far off the cliff. It might be the worst match I have ever seen no hyperbold.


I could see the argument for that. There's certainly been worst matches as far as botches and stuff. But man as far as magnitude it's an easy contender lol.



looper007 said:


> What I also found funny is Woody when the NXT ratings went down, he was telling everyone to give them time as they have a long term goal lol. Sorry you have a few on here just wanting to crap on everything, and then you have some people like yourself that has criticism's but also enjoy the product.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah this site is definitely up there for just moaning for moaning sake.


Yeah that's super biased. But that shit is only going to get worse as they grow and stay on TV.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Happens in the WWE section everyday. It's bull shit, but folk will claim to know enough from clips and match results to criticize. Get used to it


I only watch the WWE (RAW, SD and NXT) when Asuka and Io Shirai appear and i only comment about their segments.

I would not talk about something i didn't watched.

But for me the worst is when someone who don't Watch the show say something like "they should do this and stop that"

You have no right to say what a product should look like when you don't even Watch it. XD


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I only watch the WWE (RAW, SD and NXT) when Asuka and Io Shirai appear and i only comment about their segments.
> 
> 
> 
> I would not talk about something i didn't watched.
> 
> 
> 
> But for me the worst is when someone who don't Watch the show say something like "they should do this and stop that"
> 
> 
> 
> You have no right to say what a product should look like when you don't even Watch it. XD


Complaints about what you don't watch is certainly weird. Though I wonder how often those folk tell the truth. I've seen folk give pretty amazing detail on things they don't watch lol


----------



## 304418

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

It would give AEW some buzz that they outlasted a WWE product in primetime, and would result in internal shakeups in WWE since such a cancellation would be regarded as a huge failure.

Any increase in the audience viewership should not be expected to come from NXT being cancelled though in such an event. WWE in general today inspires a kind of cult-like devotion like ECW at this point, although unlike ECW, no one’s cheering for them.


----------



## BigCy

looper007 said:


> He/She doesn't though, he doesn't watch the shows and completely shits on everything. While he says AEW is in trouble cause of the ratings, while on NXT ratings thread he's telling people to give them a chance and that they have big plans ahead. The person is the biggest troll on here.


You can get a general feel for something by reading about what happens, you don't necessarily have to watch Marko Stunt in a match to know what it would look like, plus when you read about what's happening in the match that gives you ample material to criticize what's happening. So I guess you can't read a book to know what's happening in it right? C'mon man.


----------



## rbl85

BigCy said:


> You can get a general feel for something by reading about what happens, you don't necessarily have to watch Marko Stunt in a match to know what it would look like, plus when you read about what's happening in the match that gives you ample material to criticize what's happening. So I guess you can't read a book to know what's happening in it right? C'mon man.


You can know what's happening but you can't critic the book if you don't read it.


----------



## Taroostyles

So next week they are gonna be directly head to head with game 2 of the World Series, the Yankees not making it will help as the Astros dont have nearly the same national following but I suspect they may fall under 1m for the 1st time next week. 

Then they better pray the series doesnt go 7 as the last game would he the following Wednesday and traditionally Game 7 of The World Series no matter who's playing will pull an ungodly number.


----------



## cai1981

Of course it would, but I wouldn't count on that happening. It is only a matter of time (I would suspect at the turn of the year) that WWE turns up the heat and starts making NXT into legit 3rd brand....meaning bigger arena(s), appearances by some of the SD and RAW talents as well as more Main Roster stars crossing back over. Finn Balor is clearly not enough.

Even so, AEW beating NXT is good, but they are still miles behind WWE as a whole in the big picture.


----------



## Geeee

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



The Definition of Technician said:


> Which honestly weird, just 2m people tuning out of wrestling like that.
> No more monday night wars? k bye.


It's not that weird. The Monday Night Wars were really "us against them". It would be like a Yankees fan becoming a Red Sox fan if the Yankees were disbanded.



Soul Rex said:


> They had the same fans,who were switching channels?


Yeah. That would be a big chunk of it too.


----------



## looper007

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Don't think they would, might be a slight upward motion in ratings but I think the fans watching NXT are their die hard fans who only watch NXT or are only WWE watchers. I don't think it would make a slight bit of difference for AEW if NXT wasn't on Wednesday.


----------



## Jonhern

RubberbandGoat said:


> ha ha you’re serious? SD won’t be on Fox next week. They’re getting only 1.5 million viewers. Not everyone has FS1


Very unlikely they beat them in viewers, but they could get close in the demo rating.


----------



## ManiacMichaelMyers

Just scored a ticket for Pittsburgh! :mark: See ya in a few days.


----------



## Daggdag

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

NXT probably won't be cancelled, but with Vince in charge, it's shows will continue to be lackluster like the last few were.

Vince has far more control over NXT now and HHH has less. The non-finish in the main event for their USA debut is an example of a Vince decision. Those types of finishes are right up his alley. 

I think AEW will easily beat NXT until someone removed Vince from having direct control or is able toconvince him to step aside.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Open seats left for Pittsburg - seems like 70% sold? On a 10k seater arena

With walk-ups, should do 85% ish?

That’s not bad at all - no scalper talk as well


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Open seats left for Pittsburg - seems like 70% sold? On a 10k seater arena
> 
> With walk-ups, should do 85% ish?
> 
> That’s not bad at all - no scalper talk as well


I'm guessing a lot of those center lower level seats are not sold because they were platinum before, the same thing happened in Boston.


----------



## reyfan

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



RapShepard said:


> Who knows, WWF numbers certainly didn't go up when WCW got cancelled and that's the only real reference point for a situation like this.


I remember a neighbour that was a full on fan boy and when WCW went under he just stopped watching wrestling, didn't bother with WWF lol


----------



## TripleG

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*

Possibly. 

How much of NXT's audience tune into the AEW replay immediately after? 

Fuck, is that way NXT shows have an overrun? To discourage watching the AEW replay?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> I'm guessing a lot of those center lower level seats are not sold because they were platinum before, the same thing happened in Boston.


Why would they then not be on sale again as normal? Or do they stay platinum and empty?

What are you thinking - 6k -8k?


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Open seats left for Pittsburg - seems like 70% sold? On a 10k seater arena
> 
> With walk-ups, should do 85% ish?
> 
> That’s not bad at all - no scalper talk as well


The two sections on the bottom left should not be open, I think it's a mistake because those are really bad seats (the view is bad)

I think the setup will be for 8128 seats and there is 1670 seats left.


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



The Definition of Technician said:


> Which honestly weird, just 2m people tuning out of wrestling like that.
> No more monday night wars? k bye.


It's because WCW was a uniquely Southern brand of wrestling that was kind of part of a "Southern identity" thing. It was _their_ product that happened to blow up and go international, so there was always going to be a loyalty to WCW/NWA because of that. I mean, there's even proof of that when Vince bought Georgia Championship Wrestling so he could air WWF on Saturday's on TBS. That ended up being a ratings disaster and fans writing in wanting NWA wrestling, which ended up forcing Vince to sell to Jim Crockett.

While yes, both WWF and WCW were pro wrestling, they were pretty different in the way they presented their brands of wrestling. WCW was more about the in ring product, while the WWF was about the characters and promos. They were different styles that didn't appeal to everyone, so its not really a surprise that WCW fans didn't rush over to the WWF.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> The two sections on the bottom left should not be open, I think it's a mistake because those are really bad seats (the view is bad)
> 
> I think the setup will be for 8128 seats and there is 1670 seats left.


Ah, you’re right for bottom left

So, 80% sold - guessing 90% when all is said and done with walkups and last minute promotions


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah, you’re right for bottom left
> 
> So, 80% sold - guessing 90% when all is said and done with walkups and last minute promotions


Well normally those sections were supposed to be open if we look at the sitting chart on aew tix.

But i think they're not going to open those sections.


----------



## A-C-P

Just curious does anyone have the #s for the Dynamite replay that happens right after the show on Wednesday nights?


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Why would they then not be on sale again as normal? Or do they stay platinum and empty?
> 
> What are you thinking - 6k -8k?


Thats what happens if they dont sell for the inflated prices, they go down in price as the event nears then revert back to standard prices, just checked and they are standard tickets now. It doesn't really matter how many they get at this point, they have sold more than enough tickets that it will look good on tv, they can move people into those areas to fill in the tv side. They are already doing well when compared to WWE which averages 5k for all domestic shows. IDK what raw alone averages though, that average includes house shows.


----------



## Jonhern

A-C-P said:


> Just curious does anyone have the #s for the Dynamite replay that happens right after the show on Wednesday nights?


No, we only got those numbers the first week because it had a big enough audience that it was in the top 150 shows on cable that day. That's all that is made publicly available.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Well normally those sections were supposed to be open if we look at the sitting chart on aew tix.
> 
> But i think they're not going to open those sections.


yep, those sections were open for Boston, but at the show, they were tarped off. The hardcam section is not open at all too. 

If anyone is in Pittsburgh check TM over the next few days, I was able to upgrade my ticket literally a half-hour before the show when a 3rd-row seat popped up, standard ticket. I was able to upgrade from my ticket in the stands, paid under $30 difference which includes a $10 upgrade fee. The price difference is not much since the TM fees are the same.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> No, we only got those numbers the first week because it had a big enough audience that it was in the top 150 shows on cable that day. That's all that is made publicly available.


We also had the number for the 2nd week


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

*AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*










That clears things up for those who unnecessarily hate.


----------



## Chan Hung

Good :clap
Hes right btw


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

A Russo mark coming out thinking anything Russo says is worth listening too.
Fair play to Cody for given this guy a answer. What would Russo want Miscarriages, guys coming down wires and dying or putting himself over as champ. Any fan of his should be dismissed out of hand straight away from quoting Russo. 

TNT would be happy the first time they had a top 20 show on Wednesdays for years. They hit a higher rating then they were expecting. all is good.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

AEW was built online and global - obvious that their fans will have different viewing patterns and types

First prize is they stay viable and on-air

Then, if they can one day beat Raw, that would be very nice - like in a year’s time


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

"Vince Russo said--"

And I'm out.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


(with respect) Peeps really need to stop the ‘if this was WWE....’ statements

AEW is something completely different and new - they have not fucked us over for 20 plus years and have a ton of good will - of course the narrative of the fans will be better

Even moreso, as it was a largely fan driven start-up, based of a foundation that have followed these guys for years now

Just not a fair reflection of the feedback - catch us again in 5 years when we’re all jaded


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> "Vince Russo said--"
> 
> And I'm out.


That was the answer underneath the guys comments. Russo is the last person you take advice from. "But he was the reason WWE attitude era was a success". No that was Vince McMahon at his very best, telling him 99% of his ideas were crap and one was good, and he had some of the greatest workers to ever grace pro wrestling who had to work his stuff into some kind of sense. His runs in WCW and TNA, show he's a man who shouldn't be allowed near pro wrestling again.


----------



## Soul Rex

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Fuck Cody, their numbers aren't steady, they will continue to drop if they don't fix their problems.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Russo bitter that AEW won't hire his toxic ass. :heston

Some people need to remember that AEW has only done three television shows and are doing very well in the 18-49 demo. :fact


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Soul Rex said:


> Fuck Cody, their numbers aren't steady, they will continue to drop if they don't fix their problems.


"Give me more Sweaty big muscle men now Cody"

You are sure over dramatic, what would you know what they and TNT want Soul Rex. Are you privy to the meetings and goals then. Are you listening to the Russo school of bullshittery lol. Stop they are doing well.


----------



## DOPA

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

As they should be, over a million views for each of their 1st three shows is a considerable feat.

Those expecting or wanting AEW to be competitive out of the gate with WWE and are considering it a failure that they aren't are completely delusional. Success isn't achieved overnight, a core audience needs to be built first before they can work on getting more people on board and then MAYBE they can start challenging WWE on some considerable level but honestly even that is asking a lot. WWE is a global company with such a huge reach and brand name, they aren't going anywhere whether we like it or not.

It took TNA *years* to even get close to the viewership and fanbase that AEW already has, not to mention they never sold the amount of tickets in arenas that AEW has already achieved. It took WCW *years* to even turn a profit, let alone beat WWE. The idea AEW are failing or are going to bust because of an expected drop off from the first initial show is absurd. They've had 3 TV shows for goodness sakes, at least be realistic in your expectations. Call me in 6 months to a year and we'll see where they are at.

But honestly, if they manage to keep a core audience of around the same numbers we are seeing now on a consistent basis along with the ticket and PPV numbers we've seen, then there's no reason for AEW to not be happy. What we all want is a good alternative to WWE and we are seeing one develop right now.


----------



## looper007

Out of the Dynamite shows that tickets have gone on sale for, have they all sold well or is there any shows struggling to sale. If they can fill 80% of shows they be doing well.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Stopped reading at Russo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Yep, consistent 6k to 10k makes them the best attended show at present - which says a lot

Of course WWE has 3 shows and house shows - so, tally all that up - but as a single show, they’re killing it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Any info at all on the Fite subscriptions?

Ppvs was 30k to 40k buys, right? If that is all converted to monthly subs, it might be a handy 200k USD a month extra

Maybe even more as hype grows


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Any info at all on the Fite subscriptions?
> 
> *Ppvs was 30k to 40k buys, right? *If that is all converted to monthly subs, it might be a handy 200k USD a month extra
> 
> Maybe even more as hype grows


We don't know because FiteTv never give any number


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> yep, those sections were open for Boston, but at the show, they were tarped off. The hardcam section is not open at all too.
> 
> If anyone is in Pittsburgh check TM over the next few days, I was able to upgrade my ticket literally a half-hour before the show when a 3rd-row seat popped up, standard ticket. I was able to upgrade from my ticket in the stands, paid under $30 difference which includes a $10 upgrade fee. The price difference is not much since the TM fees are the same.


I think setting an arena for 10k is too much (for a weekly show).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> We don't know because FiteTv never give any number


I think they let it slip once, when people said ppv buys were down - and fite piped up and said they were up to 40k

(to be honest, it is also possible I am half remembering it wrong)


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


The big difference with WWE is that TNT didn't pay million of dollars to have AEW


----------



## Daggdag

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Russo knows jack shit about good ratings. WCW had it's worst ratings under him. His booking single handedly killed WCW.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think they let it slip once, when people said ppv buys were down - and fite piped up and said they were up to 40k
> 
> (to be honest, it is also possible I am half remembering it wrong)


They said that PPV buys were up for All Out but they didn't gave any numbers


----------



## Soul Rex

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



looper007 said:


> "Give me more Sweaty big muscle men now Cody"
> 
> You are sure over dramatic, what would you know what they and TNT want Soul Rex. Are you privy to the meetings and goals then. Are you listening to the Russo school of bullshittery lol. Stop they are doing well.


You don't have to be a rockets scientist to know company wants to do well. Losing viewers constantly is not doing well.

And I don't know why you are so obssesed with big men being sweaty, yes we know they sweat, I am not sure why you have to always mention it, do you have some gay fetish?


----------



## looper007

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yep, consistent 6k to 10k makes them the best attended show at present - which says a lot
> 
> Of course WWE has 3 shows and house shows - so, tally all that up - but as a single show, they’re killing it


That's great, just worry when they hit places like Texas and other places where AEW might not have that large a fanbase that they struggle to pull fans in.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Daily Reminder that Russo posted how he had a law degree and if people wanted him to draw up their big contracts to come to him.

In the same tweet he misspelled the college he got the degree from.


----------



## Jazminator

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Vince Russo is perhaps one of the most overrated figures in wrestling history. I hope AEW stays way clear of him.


----------



## Blisstory

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


Of course they would. The new trendy thing is to hate anything that involves WWE. If FOX came out and said they were happy with their investment in Smackdown people here would lose their shit bashing WWE.


----------



## patpat

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


aew ( and I think a lot tend to forget) is a 7 months old start up company , for them to start their show above 1m for 3 weeks and stay in the top 10 is something tnt never expected, particularly for a new wrasslin show. 
if tnt and or aew aren't happy with those numbers as of now then they are delusional morons. 

anyway in general I like that he didn't try to pretend the show is perfect and did say they need to work more on it. 
and russo should shut the fuck up for producing some of the dumbest shit ever in history and tanking companies.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Blisstory said:


> Of course they would. The new trendy thing is to hate anything that involves WWE.


1,5 million people stopped watching WWE on the span of two weeks. Guess that those fans are just stupid and can't appreciate the good shit that Vince puts out.




> If FOX came out and said they were happy with their investment in Smackdown people here would lose their shit bashing WWE.



FOX already said that they wanted 1.0 on the 18-49 demo and 2,6m viewers. They are already below that.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

I figured they were given that supposed number they set for them and adding AEW Dark. Now the key for them is to keep the foundation they've built steady and strong and I definitely think they'll be able to do that.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Russo geeks will continue to be the most easy targets to laugh at in wrestling. :kobelol


----------



## NXT Only

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

You mean they don’t need 25 minute promos and backstage segments to be happy?

Go figure.


----------



## NXT Only

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Big sweaty men
Backstage segments 
20 minute promos
Vignettes

Those are the things that drive ratings baby.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

As long as TNT is happy that's all I need to hear. :draper2

E' drones can do all the whataboutism that they want, but it really doesn't matter in the end.


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



NXT Only said:


> You mean they don’t need 25 minute promos and backstage segments to be happy?
> 
> Go figure.


you forgot the sweaty muscle men lol. 

this should become the mantra for the critics of AEW to pee them off, No 25 Minute promos, no Backstage segment, no soap opera storylines and big sweaty Muscle men cause some think they draw.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



NXT Only said:


> Big sweaty men
> Backstage segments
> 20 minute promos
> Vignettes
> 
> Those are the things that drive ratings baby.


We should make a bingo with this every week.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


Nah, anybody who shits on Russo gets an attaboy from me no matter what side they’re on.


----------



## TheFiend666

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Not that I'm disputing it because it makes sense, but I feel like if somebody from WWE gave the exact same statement people would say it's bullshit and spin and half the thread would be gifs and emojis laughing at WWE 'dying'.


Big FACTS


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Blisstory said:


> Of course they would. The new trendy thing is to hate anything that involves WWE. If FOX came out and said they were happy with their investment in Smackdown people here would lose their shit bashing WWE.


Umm, FOX has done exactly that, and nobody in here said boo about it. Try again.


----------



## NXT Only

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



V-Trigger said:


> We should make a bingo with this every week.


Add in

Marko Stunt complaint
Mood lighting
Theme music sound
Lights going out
Midgets
Flippy shit


----------



## Gh0stFace

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Fuck Jim Cornette.


----------



## Y.2.J

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Russo trying to stay relevant. :draper2


----------



## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

But but cord cutting.



Sounds familiar. 


Lol


----------



## deadcool

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Vince Russo has no idea on how to book a show or how to build a promotion. He didn't know how to it back in the 90's and he sure as sh** doesnt know now. He should just STFU.

Cody's right in my opinion.


----------



## Blisstory

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



V-Trigger said:


> 1,5 million people stopped watching WWE on the span of two weeks. Guess that those fans are just stupid and can't appreciate the good shit that Vince puts out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FOX already said that they wanted 1.0 on the 18-49 demo and 2,6m viewers. They are already below that.


Still waiting for you to define the story between Mox & Omega


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Blisstory said:


> Of course they would. The new trendy thing is to hate anything that involves WWE.


You're sadly mistaken. There are a lot of us who have hated them for a long, long time. We've just not been involved with wrestling for a while as a result.

You really think Vince's nonsensical crap is enjoyed by everybody?


----------



## Chrome

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



NXT Only said:


> Add in
> 
> Marko Stunt complaint
> Mood lighting
> Theme music sound
> Lights going out
> Midgets
> Flippy shit


Don't forget "Orange Cassidy complaint" lol.


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Chrome said:


> Don't forget "Orange Cassidy complaint" lol.


Or for smaller talent "He needs to eat more"


----------



## RKing85

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

trust me, if you had told TNT and AEW that they would do over 1 million viewers in week three, they would have been doing triple backflips.


----------



## Chrome

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



looper007 said:


> Or for smaller talent "He needs to eat more"


"OMG, HOW DARE AEW FANS LIKE ORANGE CASSIDY, THEY'D SHIT ON HIM IF HE WAS IN WWE!!!!"























Well yeah, WWE would probably book him to beat Seth Rollins clean in 3 straight non-title matches or something stupid like that lol.


----------



## CM Buck

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Just goes to show your average fan doesn't have a clue what they are talking about in regards to ratings


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



TommyWCECM said:


> Just goes to show your average fan doesn't have a clue what they are talking about in regards to ratings


Some think cause it's not WWE numbers that it's a flop, come on people. I think some bring it up to stir the crap with fans of AEW product.


----------



## RBrooks

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Of course they are, that's a no-brainer. They expected far less. The main thing is to maintain that audience now, and have it grow.


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



RBrooks said:


> Of course they are, that's a no-brainer. They expected far less. The main thing is to maintain that audience now, and have it grow.


Pretty much, and that might take years. It's not a year or two thing, they might need a Hogan, Austin, Rock type superstar to come along for them to take them into been a serious rival to WWE in terms of ratings but if they can become a stable wrestling company, with good ratings if they can keep it to 900,000 or 1 million, that be great. Keep on producing good weekly TV and make sure the PPV's are some of the best around, then they find a loyal audience.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

looper007 said:


> That's great, just worry when they hit places like Texas and other places where AEW might not have that large a fanbase that they struggle to pull fans in.


I’m hoping that they do more of the ‘student section’ when they get to quiet towns (like they are trailing in Champaign)

Get a bunch of rowdy, drunk students in there for 10 bucks a pop and it will be mega loud


----------



## Hangman

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

Someone's actually listening to old shit stain?

:heston


----------



## umagamanc

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Then, if they can one day beat Raw, that would be very nice - like in a year’s time


I suspect it will be longer than a year before they beat Raw. They need to stabilise and maintain their core audience first, then concentrate on winning over new fans. They need to have a long-term trajectory, rather than rushing for short-term whirlwind successes. Patience is a virtue. Look what happened with TNA.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



umagamanc said:


> I suspect it will be longer than a year before they beat Raw. They need to stabilise and maintain their core audience first, then concentrate on winning over new fans. They need to have a long-term trajectory, rather than rushing for short-term whirlwind successes. Patience is a virtue. Look what happened with TNA.


I was just being overtly optimistic - its my character flaw 

But yes - might take 5 years if ever - and that’s fine


----------



## Freelancer

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



DoctorWhosawhatsit said:


> "Vince Russo said--"
> 
> And I'm out.


Took the words right out of my mouth.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> I think setting an arena for 10k is too much (for a weekly show).


Idk, but what they should do is what WWE does, only allow people to buy the camera side to begin with, and don't open up other sections until that is filled up. I do think they already started doing this with upcoming shows, like WV, so that will make sure the part we see on TV looks like a full arena.


----------



## McNugget

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

AEW is being watched by more people than any of TNT's previous programming on Wednesday nights. It's fun to compare numbers to other companies on other networks and other nights, but for TNT it would be ludicrous to suggest that this isn't a success. More views for them on Wendesday means bigger ad buys for their network. Pretty simple.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> Idk, but what they should do is what WWE does, only allow people to buy the camera side to begin with, and don't open up other sections until that is filled up. I do think they already started doing this with upcoming shows, like WV, so that will make sure the part we see on TV looks like a full arena.


The love that jimmy cam shot though, which shows the whole arena

I’d prefer they move to 5k seater arenas before they do that


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Blisstory said:


> Of course they would. The new trendy thing is to hate anything that involves WWE. If FOX came out and said they were happy with their investment in Smackdown people here would lose their shit bashing WWE.


Maybe its because AEW has enough actual good will that it EARNED people's trust as opposed to WWE spending years telling LIE ADTER LIE for the sake of good PR? I don't thank AEW is quite on that level of disconnect to be distrusted yet.


----------



## ashley678

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*

people also dont seem realise, the fite.tv sub. this is something aew are doing that wwe dont do for there weekly shows. we geneuinly dont know the subs but ill imagine its pretty decent for alot of fans just to avoid adverts and also for most uk fans etc


----------



## Geeee

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



looper007 said:


> you forgot the sweaty muscle men lol.
> 
> this should become the mantra for the critics of AEW to pee them off, No 25 Minute promos, no Backstage segment, no soap opera storylines and big sweaty Muscle men cause some think they draw.


I've mostly seen the fans of AEW, who are watching every show, asking for more promos and bigger guys TBH


----------



## A-C-P

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Blisstory said:


> Of course they would. *The new trendy thing *is to hate anything that involves WWE. If FOX came out and said they were happy with their investment in Smackdown people here would lose their shit bashing WWE.


"New Trendy" :heston

This has been standard practice since the 90's for some people :heston

Glad TNT is happy with AEW.

And if FOX is happy with SD, then good for them too....


----------



## headstar

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



looper007 said:


> A Russo mark coming out thinking anything Russo says is worth listening too.
> Fair play to Cody for given this guy a answer. What would Russo want Miscarriages, guys coming down wires and dying or putting himself over as champ. Any fan of his should be dismissed out of hand straight away from quoting Russo.
> 
> TNT would be happy the first time they had a top 20 show on Wednesdays for years. They hit a higher rating then they were expecting. all is good.


Russo isn't wrong. AEW are currently losing viewers week by week because they are not interesting enough to the general public. Let's see how happy TNT are when AEW is getting below 500k viewers.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratin*

Obviously AEW needs a cuck story line ... _to save the ratings, goddammit_. Just gotta find somebody worthy of playing grab-ass with Brandi. 

Shit, that’s how they turn MJF — it’s such great shit!!

Oh yeah, and somebody has to sell it to TK. 

On second thought, just go back to WWE for that shit. We can see it’s working wonders for them.


----------



## Geeee

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratin*



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Obviously AEW needs a cuck story line ... _to save the ratings, goddammit_. Just gotta find somebody worthy of playing grab-ass with Brandi.
> 
> Shit, that’s how they turn MJF — it’s such great shit!!
> 
> Oh yeah, and somebody has to sell it to TK.
> 
> On second thought, just go back to WWE for that shit. We can see it’s working wonders for them.


Wrong Vince LOL. But maybe we'd get a Marko Stunt on a pole match with Russo


----------



## NXT Only

Geeee said:


> I've mostly seen the fans of AEW, who are watching every show, asking for more promos and bigger guys TBH


Well it ain’t happening so fans or not they should just quit asking or stop watching



headstar said:


> Russo isn't wrong. AEW are currently losing viewers week by week because they are not interesting enough to the general public. Let's see how happy TNT are when AEW is getting below 500k viewers.


You’re saying “losing viewers” like the “loss” is significant. 

They’ve got a consistent 1M+ fan base for 3 straight weeks. 

The people who left don’t like it, okay fine. The people who do stayed. 

More stayed than left.


----------



## Geeee

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



NXT Only said:


> Well it ain’t happening so fans or not they should just quit asking or stop watching


I dunno. They just added Jake Hager whose main attribute is that he is big. I think they are trying to address size TBH


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



Geeee said:


> I dunno. They just added Jake Hager whose main attribute is that he is big. I think they are trying to address size TBH


But most people on here want WWE style 20 minute promo's, they say they don't but they do. And most like Soul Rex and a few others want all big sweaty men, he says he doesn't but he wants a roster full of them. fine if you mix it up but you don't need 20 of them on the roster.


----------



## Stylebender

Here's hoping for 1.2 milion this week


----------



## OmegaMark

Folks let's remember wrestling fans tend to be the dregs of society. On the whole, we're not particularly wealthy, well educated, or high brow. We are neckbeards, bronies, and 40-year-old pizza delivery boys.

So, while 1M viewers may be a decent raw number, it's not an overly valuable one.

Let me give you a quick analogy. I own and operate about a dozen websites covering a wide spectrum of topics. The value of a visitor to each of these websites varies to an almost comical degree. My lowest-earning site churns out around $0.01 (one cent) per visitor, whereas, my highest-earning site averages over $1 per visitor. That's the difference between a cat meme-based website and a law-based one. We wrestling fans fall much closer to the cat meme site visitor than the law one. We may bring double the viewership, but we're worth one-quarter the value of normal people. And that's the danger with AEW's ratings. They're gonna have to blow TNT away to keep them happy, and with the way things are trending, I don't think that's going to happen.


----------



## rbl85

Dude TNT Thought that AEW would do 500K so for the moment they're more than happy.

TNT was doing 300-400K at the same time slot before AEW start airing . TNT didn't pay much to have AEW, it's not like FOX or USA who paid million to have WWE.


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: AEW and TNT are happy with their ratings*



V-Trigger said:


> 1,5 million people stopped watching WWE on the span of two weeks. Guess that those fans are just stupid and can't appreciate the good shit that Vince puts out.


You're being a little deceptive here in order to make Smackdown look worse than they are

Sept. 24 episode of WWE SmackDown drew 2,099,000 viewers. This number is up from last week's viewership of 2,064,000 viewers and marks the second straight week in which viewership has risen for the program.

Smackdown's debut on FOX drew 3.8 million viewers, their 2nd show drew 2.89 million and last week drew 2.44million. So technically, their move to Fox has actually improved their ratings . It may continue to fall and go back to what they were before Fox, but when you look at it before and after the debut episode, it looks a bit better for them. I mean, that debut show did have the Rock advertised afterall. That's the biggest reason for the ratings fluctuating.


----------



## rbl85

https://www.tvinsider.com/824612/the-young-bucks-matt-jackson-nick-jackson-aew-all-elite-wrestling/


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rbl85 said:


> https://www.tvinsider.com/824612/the-young-bucks-matt-jackson-nick-jackson-aew-all-elite-wrestling/


“Though he knows long-term there is a tough road ahead once the novelty of a new brand wears off. The EVPs take everything in stride.“

They know the numbers will fall off initially, they’re fully expecting it. Just wanted to toss this out there before all the I-told-you-so’s come out of the woodwork this and every next Thursday. I know it won’t do any good, but ima say it anyway TWO DAYS before I have to — all you armchair ratings specialists and wannabee tv strategists can just shut the hell up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark 001 - 2 weeks removed - 900k views
Dark 002 - 1 week ago - 877k views

Those are not bad numbers, seeing as they normally do 50k to 300k average views on their channel per video


----------



## AEWMoxley

Kenny Omega makes an appearance in the main event of AEW Dark, and there's no bump in viewership.

Interesting, but not surprising.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Kenny Omega makes an appearance in the main event of AEW Dark, and there's no bump in viewership.
> 
> Interesting, but not surprising.


What an useless post….


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I hope they remain above the million mark but I do think baseball will peel off enough viewers to send them to 900,000+ viewers. As long as the show is good, I'll be satisfied.


----------



## rbl85

All the seats left on Tickemaster are nearly all gone.

It's strange because there was nearly 1200 tickets left on TM and in a few minutes 95% of the tickets were gone.


----------



## Claro De Luna

rbl85 said:


> All the seats left on Tickemaster are nearly all gone.
> 
> It's strange because there was nearly 1200 tickets left on TM and in a few minutes 95% of the tickets were gone.


Good news. Looks like it will be another sell out. No talk of scalpers being involved either. Fuck the haters and WWE cock suckers.


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> Good news. Looks like it will be another sell out. No talk of scalpers being involved either. Fuck the haters and WWE cock suckers.


There was some scalpers but a lot less than for the first 2 shows.

There is 257 tickets left on StubHub (they will be easily sold)


----------



## kingfrass44

*Re: AEW PPV sales already declining.*



TAC41 said:


> Lost 10,000 viewers between DON and All Out. These guys are screwed when they go to weekly TV.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Where's the source? 
Dave Melzer Wrong In numbers


----------



## kingfrass44

*Re: Would ratings go up if NXT was to be cancelled?*



TAC41 said:


> Of course it would. Just like numbers would drastically plummet if NXT ever gets pulled from WWE network and only airs live on USA.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Lol yeah it's terrible excuse. 
Just like NXT Fall ever gets pulled from WWE network and only airs live on USA


----------



## Tk Adeyemi

Do you guys know were I can find out what cities dynamite is coming to. I am hoping they will come to the Midwest so I can take my family to a show.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Tk Adeyemi said:


> Do you guys know were I can find out what cities dynamite is coming to. I am hoping they will come to the Midwest so I can take my family to a show.


https://www.allelitewrestling.com/events


----------



## The XL 2

The World Series is on tonight and it's the second day of the NBA season and a lot of games are on tonight. AEW and NXT are gonna get butchered. Probably 800K for AEW and 600K for NXT.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The XL 2 said:


> The World Series is on tonight and it's the second day of the NBA season and a lot of games are on tonight. AEW and NXT are gonna get butchered. Probably 800K for AEW and 600K for NXT.


Yeah, that sounds about right. 

I remember someone predicting that their viewership would go up this week. Pure delusion.


----------



## V-Trigger

Just to let everybody know. Stay way from this section until next week if you don't want to end up getting AIDS.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

V-Trigger said:


> Just to let everybody know. Stay way from this section until next week if you don't want to end up getting AIDS.


I would like to avoid this - thanks for the warning


----------



## CodyIsGod

Tonight is the World Series and the first full night of NBA games, so we have a perfectly valid excuse for when ratings drop again.

Also, I've heard rumors that next Wednesday, other TV networks plan on showing stuff in the 8-10 timeslot, so we have a perfectly valid excuse for ratings drop then, too. Eventually all other networks will just give up on airing stuff on Wednesday nights, and we'll finally get a fair look at AEW's ratings. I can't wait!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

CodyIsGod said:


> Tonight is the World Series and the first full night of NBA games, so we have a perfectly valid excuse for when ratings drop again.
> 
> Also, I've heard rumors that next Wednesday, other TV networks plan on showing stuff in the 8-10 timeslot, so we have a perfectly valid excuse for ratings drop then, too. Eventually all other networks will just give up on airing stuff on Wednesday nights, and we'll finally get a fair look at AEW's ratings. I can't wait!


ah... AIDS has arrived


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

V-Trigger said:


> Just to let everybody know. Stay way from this section until next week if you don't want to end up getting AIDS.


After last week’s shitstorm over Marko, I’ll be avoiding this place like the plague until all the armchair production specialists and ratings analysts crawl back in their holes. I’m already feeling a touch of spiral meningitis that I’m sure came from one of the threads in here, and I think exposure to e.coli. I don’t need none of that AIDS shit again.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> After last week’s shitstorm over Marko, I’ll be avoiding this place like the plague until all the armchair production specialists and ratings analysts crawl back in their holes. I’m already feeling a touch of spiral meningitis that I’m sure came from one of the threads in here, and I think exposure to e.coli. I don’t need none of that AIDS shit again.


They say a promo and 2 episodes of NWA powerrr cures this AIDS.....is this true?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Looks like some here are taking ratings a bit too seriously. It's interesting to talk about, but there's no need to go through anxiety and depression when the numbers don't go your way. If it takes that much of a toll on your health and well-being, perhaps you should just stopping posting in this thread, or stop discussing ratings altogether.


----------



## Chrome

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ah... AIDS has arrived


It seems like the 'E drones new strategy is to join the forum disguised as "AEW supermarks" and then post nothing but backhanded compliments. Interesting stuff. :hmm:


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They say a promo and 2 episodes of NWA powerrr cures this AIDS.....is this true?


I really can’t say. I don’t even know how to watch it, and I don’t want to go out of my way to find out, because the people who are raving about how good it is make me not want to be in a position to have to admit they might be right. How fucked up is that. 

Must be the meningitis again. Or my meds need readjusting.



Chrome said:


> It seems like the 'E drones new strategy is to join the forum disguised as "AEW supermarks" and then post nothing but backhanded compliments. Interesting stuff. :hmm:


Those cheeky bastards!!


----------



## looper007

V-Trigger said:


> Just to let everybody know. Stay way from this section until next week if you don't want to end up getting AIDS.


Just put them on ignore it's fantastic, they are now on the defense saying "We are fan's of AEW, but you guys can't take criticism" but these guys are over enjoying AEW ratings dropping but go on the crazy defensive to support NXT by saying "Give them time, they got a plan" and they say they are AEW fans. All they do is complain about everything.


----------



## rbl85

I think Tickemaster is in a complete PLS


----------



## Chan Hung

Chrome said:


> LifeInCattleClass said:
> 
> 
> 
> ah... AIDS has arrived <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> It seems like the 'E drones new strategy is to join the forum disguised as "AEW supermarks" and then post nothing but backhanded compliments. Interesting stuff. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/t338GQ8.png" border="0" alt="" title="hmm" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

The odd thing is is that they are die-hard fans of certain all Elite wrestlers yet they sure hate the product LOL


----------



## Chrome

Chan Hung said:


> The odd thing is is that they are die-hard fans of certain all Elite wrestlers yet they sure hate the product LOL


Right? First it was OmegaMark, then CodyisGod lol. (Very likely the same guy tbh.) Can't wait for #1BucksFan and BrandiisaGoddess to join next.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Given that AEW continues on FITE for a little after NXT's end, I wish TNT would greenlight an overrun. Plus it would counter the weekly NXT extra minutes.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I think they stay at a million. The baseball game wasn’t very interesting


----------



## NXT Only

RubberbandGoat said:


> I think they stay at a million. The baseball game wasn’t very interesting


World Series, Philly/Boston basketball game will hurt the overall audience. 

Still though they put on a really good show, that matters more right now since those who didn’t get a chance to watch live will watch it at some point and it will draw them in next week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RubberbandGoat said:


> I think they stay at a million. The baseball game wasn’t very interesting


You said rating would go up in Week 2. Then in Week 3 you said it would go up as there was heavy competition in Week 2.

Aren't you tired of being overly optimistic? Then somehow spinning the drop as positive when numbers come out by comparing to NXT who no one cares about that show.

Virtually everyone with any sense knows the ratings are dropping this week. Might even be a significant drop to around 800k. 

Heavy competition plus fans have been driven away as they realise the product isn't as good as expected.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> You said rating would go up in Week 2. Then in Week 3 you said it would go up as there was heavy competition in Week 2.
> 
> Aren't you tired of being overly optimistic? Then somehow spinning the drop as positive when numbers come out by comparing to NXT who no one cares about that show.
> 
> Virtually everyone with any sense knows the ratings are dropping this week. Might even be a significant drop to around 800k.
> 
> Heavy competition *plus fans have been driven away as they realise the product isn't as good as expected.*


Who said that ?


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

I wish they'd have made a 4 v 4 match for next weeks main event to capitalize on that red hot Cody/Jericho segment. It'd probably get them their best ratings since the debut.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Who said that ?


Losing over 28% of viewers in just 2weeks from an already low viewership proves that. We don't need Meltzer to tell us why fans have left in droves. 

But if the hardcores on this forum that watch everything are happy, that's all that matter i guess.


----------



## Death Rider

rbl85 said:


> Dark Emperor said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said rating would go up in Week 2. Then in Week 3 you said it would go up as there was heavy competition in Week 2.
> 
> Aren't you tired of being overly optimistic? Then somehow spinning the drop as positive when numbers come out by comparing to NXT who no one cares about that show.
> 
> Virtually everyone with any sense knows the ratings are dropping this week. Might even be a significant drop to around 800k.
> 
> Heavy competition *plus fans have been driven away as they realise the product isn't as good as expected.*
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that ?
Click to expand...

People who polled every person who tuned out. Come on how else would they know this for certain?


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Losing over 28% of viewers in just 2weeks from an already low viewership proves that. We don't need Meltzer to tell us why fans have left in droves.
> 
> But if the hardcores on this forum that watch everything are happy, that's all that matter i guess.


Maybe it's just that those 28% are people who don't like wrestling or maybe never watched wrestling before and just gave it a go for the first show.

The same for Smackdown second show were 1M people decided that they didn't like it.

Wrestling is not popular.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Who said that ?





rbl85 said:


> Maybe it's just that those 28% are people who don't like wrestling or maybe never watched wrestling before and just gave it a go for the first show.
> 
> The same for Smackdown second show were 1M people decided that they didn't like it.
> 
> Wrestling is not popular.


But RAW has steadied at 2.2m-2.4m now and we can all agree its not a great show. So if AEW keep declining weekly rather than steadying, you have to look at the product.


----------



## ste1592

Dark Emperor said:


> But RAW has steadied at 2.2m-2.4m now and we can all agree its not a great show. So if AEW keep declining weekly rather than steadying, you have to look at the product.


The problem is that most people (and I include myself, even though I've watched every episode of Dynamite) just associate RAW with wrestling.

Not even Smackdown has the same brand recognition. If you think of wrestling, you think of WWE; and if you think of WWE, you first think of RAW, and only then of Smackdown.

That's going to be hard, if not impossible, to change. And while one would think that doing something "more like RAW" would help AEW, what would be the purpose? Why would I watch AEW if they do something I could see in the bigger and more renowned show?

I will be honest though, I'm rather burnt out of wrestling, and the only other person I know that watches wrestling is completely burnt out and hasn't even checked out AEW. I believe that when you are so over all the bullshit you see in WWE, you're not even capable of giving an honest chance to somebody else. You just quit. I am sure I'd have quit if I didn't enjoy posting on this wrestling board.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> But RAW has steadied at 2.2m-2.4m now and we can all agree its not a great show. So if AEW keep declining weekly rather than steadying, you have to look at the product.


RAW exist since 1993, the fans who watch the show are mostly 50+ years old.

Those people will always watch RAW because it's part of their life, they watched the show since it started.


----------



## thorn123

Unfortunately the better product is not always the most popular. In all facets of life. I watch Raw, Smackdown, Powerrr and Dynamite, and AEW is clearly superior (IMO). I wish die hard WWE fans would just give AEW a go.


----------



## LongPig666

DaveRA said:


> Unfortunately the better product is not always the most popular. In all facets of life. I watch Raw, Smackdown, Powerrr and Dynamite, and AEW is clearly superior (IMO). I wish die hard WWE fans would just give AEW a go.


Yes. WWE is the Taylor Swift, McDonald's, Ben Stiller and Toyota Corolla of wrestling. Bland, safe, conventional and scared of upsetting its _work-buy-consume-die_ customer.


----------



## Seafort

RAW will see another downward trend shortly if episode quality does not change. They were buoyed by an awful NFL game. It’s three awful episodes in a row for them. I would say that their new floor is going to be 1.7-1.9M going into 2020.

Calling AEW at .895M this week. My guess is that the audience settles in the 600-700K range by the time we reach 2020, while NXT hovers between 500K and 600K.

I’d love for someone to dig up the Vince McMahon quote where he complains about how WCW scheduled Nitro against RAW and that it was a detriment to wrestling fans.


----------



## jordyjames26

Amazing show they build around Moxley they'll be doing over a million In a few months. He's amazing

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## LoveMeSomeDarby

Lesnar Turtle said:


> I wish they'd have made a 4 v 4 match for next weeks main event to capitalize on that red hot Cody/Jericho segment. It'd probably get them their best ratings since the debut.


But that would be smart, and by now we should all realize AEW doesn't do smart.

AEW does flips.
AEW does 4'6" adult males being treated as legit challengers.
AEW does men in the women's division.
AEW does weekly falling ratings.

AEW does not do smart.


----------



## P Thriller

DaveRA said:


> Unfortunately the better product is not always the most popular. In all facets of life. I watch Raw, Smackdown, Powerrr and Dynamite, and AEW is clearly superior (IMO). I wish die hard WWE fans would just give AEW a go.


Unfortunately, I think a lot of die hard WWE fans are like me and have given up on the main roster but have developed a very strong loyalty to NXT. NXT is a better show to me than AEW but by the skin of its teeth because I very much enjoy AEW so far. Powerrr is also incredibly entertaining. But there is only so much wrestling a person can watch and after two hours of NXT, it is tough to watch two hours of AEW. I record it and watch it the next day, which I'm hoping contributes to the ratings but I'm not sure.

The only think holding back AEW for me is they don't have as deep of a talent pool as NXT. Their women's division is miles behind NXT's. I also think match quality is very even between the two. I also like the feel of NXT shows in the small venue and that underground metal feel. AEW feels like Raw and Smackdown presentation to me, but obviously the show is better. This is just me nitpicking though. I do prefer AEW's storytelling much more than NXT's. I like the idea of the win/loss although I was annoyed with that Havok vs. Allen #1 contenders match because neither of them had a winning record yet they got to face each other in a #1 contenders match for the world title which made no sense to me at all. 

Either way, NXT and AEW are clearly the best shows in the country right now with Powerr being next in line and then the main roster behind those. I love Wednesday nights now.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

LoveMeSomeDarby said:


> But that would be smart, and by now we should all realize AEW doesn't do smart.
> 
> AEW does flips.
> AEW does 4'6" adult males being treated as legit challengers.
> AEW does men in the women's division.
> AEW does weekly falling ratings.
> 
> AEW does not do smart.


Sup, OmegaMark.


----------



## just_one

Is the rating out yet?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

You guys are forgetting that we live in the streaming age. Live viewership isn’t the only barometer. It’s the primary but not the only way to gauge popularity


----------



## kuja killer

about ratings -- does it count toward the ratings when my feed of TNT (or USA) is 3 hours "later" after the actual live broadcast ? What i mean is, every time you guys start talking about the wwe and aew shows in the live dicussion threads, it's always at 5 PM my time (arizona) ...but it raw/aew always comes on at 8 PM for me ..

So i can never look at the dicussion threads in case of spoilers, until after 3 hours (8 PM my timezone) 

does that still count toward the ratings so to speak or no ??


----------



## Taroostyles

Ratings for any person only matter if you're a Nielsen household, they take that data and the extrapolate it out.


----------



## kuja killer

oh, well i didnt mean specifically "me" just anyone in general (and with this neislen even) that gets this 3 hours later like me for example.


----------



## Bosnian21

kuja killer said:


> oh, well i didnt mean specifically "me" just anyone in general that gets this 3 hours later like me for example.


Yeah, I’m pretty sure the Nielsen households that count towards ratings definitely count West Coast feeds as live viewers for those respective shows.


----------



## Beatles123

Transphobia is still strong ITT i see fpalm


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

963k, not horrible given the competition.


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> 963k, not horrible given the competition.


 That's a damn good number.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Wow not as bad as it could have been. With the replay they’ll still get over a million lol nice! The world series’s will be over before next Wednesday so it’s a win


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> That's a damn good number.


Yeah, I thought the same, most that track this stuff that I follow on Twitter was 800-900k, 963k is a win to me.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

They only lost 55,000 since last week with heavy competition


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah only losing about 50k with The World Series and NBA premiere is very encouraging.


----------



## NascarStan

Second highest non NBA game rating on cable is impressive. Honestly was expecting the rails to be lower around 940k 

Assuming no game 7 they should be at 1 million again, they went up in every demographic expect over 50 and that's because of the World Series


----------



## Dark Emperor

Under 1m but less drop than most expected so very positive this week.

They need to steady or get it back up next week though as its 3weeks of drops since debut.


----------



## Chan Hung

So they were shy of 1 million? Yes lots of competition, world series. But they need a boost, hope next week. Each week they've gone a little down in ratings. Also curious what did NXT get?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

963K viewers and a .45 demo which made it #4 on the night. nxt had 698K viewers and a .21 demo. AEW with another convincing win. roud


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
0.963M [24th] [ - 0.051M | - 5.03% ]
0.450D [4th] [ + 0.010D | + 2.27% ]

AEW | NXT:
0.963M | 0.698M [ + 0.265M | + 37.97% ]
0.450D | 0.210D [ + 0.240D | + 114.29% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.661M [ - 0.065M | - 3.77% ]
0.660D [ + 0.020D | + 3.13% ]*


----------



## Jonhern

up slightly in the number that matters, the demo, plus up a spot in the rankings for AEW. .45 demo up from .44 demo.


----------



## rbl85

AEW was rank 4 of the night.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Very critical - the 18-49 stayed stable - even went up - we lost some +50s though


----------



## Ace

This was definitely a win, hopefully they continue to put out good-great shows and that number can grow.


----------



## Chan Hung

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> 963K viewers and a .45 demo which made it #4 on the night. nxt had 698K viewers and a .21 demo. AEW with another convincing win. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/DUqEqv0.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Proud" class="inlineimg" />


Damn so NXT went down again too?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This is not bad










Old people hate AEW and loves NXT.....explains this forum so much (ps> I’m old too, so just a joke)

:banderas


----------



## Taroostyles

So they more than doubled NXT in the key demo for the night? Wow.


----------



## Bosnian21

Wow that’s a very good ratings with all the other big sports games going on. And the key demo is still strong. Great news.


----------



## TripleG

Getting that number against The World Series and NBA is good, but I'd like to see it tick up once the World Series is done.


----------



## Beatles123

AEW winning the war vs NXT. roud


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW more than doubled nxt in the 18-49 demo .45 to .21 In M 18-49 it's .62 to .43. in the M 12-34 it's .43 to .11.NXT did clean up in the old coot demo with .33 to .25. :O


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah the demo is the real standout thing. AEW is consistently now attracting a younger and more key audience than NXT is and its not even that close.


----------



## HankHill_85

Love the key demo news, but just a shame they can't retain casual viewers and stay above that 1 million mark.

I guess both shows suffered due to the NBA and the MLB World Series, though.


----------



## Punkholic

That's a great number considering the competition from the World Series and the NBA last night.


----------



## TripleG

So the only things that beat it on Cable were two NBA games and American Horror Story? 

Not bad. Not bad at all. 

Meanwhile NXT is getting beat by Guys Grocery Games...the fuck is that?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

4 weeks down, 79 to go! :banderas


----------



## Taroostyles

Next week will be interesting and with the tag tourney ending they will no longer be relegated to that format. 

I would run a big main event with either Inner Circle vs Elite or the 3 big singles matches for FG on opposing sides.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

HankHill_85 said:


> Love the key demo news, but just a shame they can't retain casual viewers and stay above that 1 million mark.
> 
> I guess both shows suffered due to the NBA and the MLB World Series, though.


They did retain casual viewers between 18-49

They lost viewers over 50+ 

It is harsh.... but nobody in tv cares about the over 50 demo

This will be a ‘up’ week for them


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The long and the short is, that this isn’t a battle against NXT

The goal should be to reach RAW’s numbers in the 18-49 demo

Which is 0.73

That is the target

The millions number is BS - they work our the ‘universe calculation’ for that which is just guesstimates

The money is made on that 0.45 in 18-49


----------



## InexorableJourney

This is less like a war and more like a cull.


----------



## HankHill_85

It doesn't seem like the day will ever come, but if NXT _ever_ beats AEW in viewership some week, I hope AEW issues a press release congratulating them in a low-key passive aggressive manner. I mean literally copy and paste the WWE press release after Week 1 and just switch out the necessary company names and stationery.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Makes you wonder what ratings AEW would be getting if NXT wasn't on at same time every week.


----------



## Captain Yesterday

The World Series isn't on that list. Kinda odd lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

A PG Attitude said:


> Makes you wonder what ratings AEW would be getting if NXT wasn't on at same time every week.


I’m guessing only 0.1 extra in the key demo - the other 0.1 will just be loyalist to a fault - and there is nothing wrong with that - it is what it is..... but its a bit like a cuck storyline in reality tbh


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Captain Yesterday said:


> The World Series isn't on that list. Kinda odd lol


That is a list of cable shows

National channels with the world series does 11m - massive numbers

Can check it here -> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articl...able-originals-network-finals-10-23-2019.html

You guys really like baseball, don’t you


----------



## RapShepard

So is it safe to say we've found their general audience? I can't imagine in 2019 it takes people 4 weeks before they go yay or nay on a show.


----------



## Captain Yesterday

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Captain Yesterday said:
> 
> 
> 
> The World Series isn't on that list. Kinda odd lol
> 
> 
> 
> That is a list of cable shows
> 
> National channels with the world series does 11m - massive numbers
> 
> Can check it here -> http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articl...able-originals-network-finals-10-23-2019.html
> 
> You guys really like baseball, don’t you <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I love my baseball lol. My Cardinals didn't make it though, so I turned to the game after AEW ended.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> So is it safe to say we've found their general audience? I can't imagine in 2019 it takes people 4 weeks before they go yay or nay on a show.


I would guess so

They are really strong in both 18-49 and 12 - 34

Which bodes very well for their future

Only negative I see is, female 12-34 is low - but I guess that is expected

This is a very solid base for future proofing


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Captain Yesterday said:


> Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I love my baseball lol. My Cardinals didn't make it though, so I turned to the game after AEW ended.


My pleasure 

Sorry your team didn’t make it through


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW :bjpenn roud

NXT? More like NXToast. :heston


----------



## Blade Runner

At least now the WWE and AEW might rethink their strategy of appealing solely to the minority diehard workrate fans. 


Both shows are nosediving at a frightening pace. Yikes


----------



## Ace

KYRA BATARA said:


> At least now the WWE and AEW might rethink their strategy of appealing solely to the minority diehard workrate fans.
> 
> 
> Both shows are nosediving at a frightening pace. Yikes


This is a good number given they were up against the world series and the NBA fpalm

Everyone was expecting worse, they ended up holding up quite well against tough competition.

They only lost viewers in the 50+ demo, their numbers for the key demos were actually up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

KYRA BATARA said:


> At least now the WWE and AEW might rethink their strategy of appealing solely to the minority diehard workrate fans.
> 
> 
> Both shows are nosediving at a frightening pace. Yikes


Wait... what did you not understand about the numbers?

They ticked up in 18-49, the key demo

So, they gained viewers there this week, and lost in the 50+ demo to baseball likely

But this is an ‘up’ week, not a down


----------



## NXT Only

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They did retain casual viewers between 18-49
> 
> They lost viewers over 50+
> 
> It is harsh.... but nobody in tv cares about the over 50 demo
> 
> This will be a ‘up’ week for them


50+ is a huge portion of baseball fans so that makes sense. 

AEW did better than I thought they would against the WS and NBA


----------



## Dark Emperor

Are people really celebrating AEW beating NXT on here? These numbers aren't bad compared to previous drop, but its no cause for celebration.

If WWE wanted a real war, all they need to do is a NXT special with top stars and heavily promote it and the rating will beat AEW with ease as their audience is only 1m.

4-0 THOUGH, WE'RE WINNING THE WAR!!!! lmao.


----------



## Blade Runner

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Wait... what did you not understand about the numbers?
> 
> They ticked up in 18-49, the key demo
> 
> So, they gained viewers there this week, and lost in the 50+ demo to baseball likely
> 
> But this is an ‘up’ week, not a dowm



Overall numbers for both shows are downtrending. This isn't the first week that they've lost viewers. Key demo or not, this isn't a good look.


Pretty critical for a new IP trying to establish itself on the market and trying to grow momentum.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I would guess so
> 
> 
> 
> They are really strong in both 18-49 and 12 - 34
> 
> 
> 
> Which bodes very well for their future
> 
> 
> 
> Only negative I see is, female 12-34 is low - but I guess that is expected
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very solid base for future proofing


The other good thing is the suits are fairly young. So hopefully they can keep their hand on the pulse of the youth. Though it is funny how quickly you can become out of touch after 25, especially in this microwave era lol


----------



## NXT Only

KYRA BATARA said:


> Overall numbers for both shows are downtrending. This isn't the first week that they've lost viewers. Key demo or not, this isn't a good look.
> 
> 
> Pretty critical for a new IP trying to establish itself on the market and trying to grow momentum.


You’re over analyzing the “loss”

People went to watch the World Series instead which is expected add in the NBA games and to not lose viewership in your key demo, actually get an uptick is good. 

The total is fine to look at but the people they lost are not people they’re targeting.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> Are people really celebrating AEW beating NXT on here? These numbers aren't bad compared to previous drop, but its no cause for celebration.
> 
> If WWE wanted a real war, all they need to do is a NXT special with top stars and heavily promote it and the rating will beat AEW with ease as their audience is only 1m.
> 
> 4-0 THOUGH, WE'RE WINNING THE WAR!!!! lmao.


As WWE as gets, but it's still a reason for AEW as they're beating the machine. You can pass it off as just NXT, but it's still beating a WWE product head to head. That's a win no matter how you look at it.


----------



## A-C-P

Solid :bjpenn


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW actually slightly increased in the key demo. That's what advertisers care about. :vince$


----------



## Blade Runner

NXT Only said:


> You’re over analyzing the “loss”
> 
> People went to watch the World Series instead which is expected add in the NBA games and to not lose viewership in your key demo, actually get an uptick is good.
> 
> The total is fine to look at but the people they lost are not people they’re targeting.



The excuse might be valid, but that doesn't change the fact that fewer people are watching AEW during it's crucial building stages. On a graph it looks bad to TNT when they see a consistant downtrend. Some of those that went to watch other shit might not be coming back.


NXT is in the same boat, although they still have their own WWE Network as a lifejacket if ever this move to USA doesn't work out. It's also the developmental brand so it's not as concerning as if it were RAW or SD.


----------



## Taroostyles

Dark Emperor said:


> Are people really celebrating AEW beating NXT on here? These numbers aren't bad compared to previous drop, but its no cause for celebration.
> 
> If WWE wanted a real war, all they need to do is a NXT special with top stars and heavily promote it and the rating will beat AEW with ease as their audience is only 1m.
> 
> 4-0 THOUGH, WE'RE WINNING THE WAR!!!! lmao.


So funny and typical. First they couldn't get off the ground. Then they were just a t shirt company.

Now beating an established WWE product 4 weeks in a row doesnt mean anything? 

Stop with that nonsense. If someone told you 1 year ago that a company started by Cody and The Bucks could week in and week out beat a WWE program you would have laughed at them.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> As WWE as gets, but it's still a reason for AEW as they're beating the machine. You can pass it off as just NXT, but it's still beating a WWE product head to head. That's a win no matter how you look at it.


Fair enough, its just amusing to me that people are taking it as a real war. For AEW's sake, lets hope it doesn't turn into a proper war. 1m viewers is no reason to pump chest.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The other good thing is the suits are fairly young. So hopefully they can keep their hand on the pulse of the youth. Though it is funny how quickly you can become out of touch after 25, especially in this microwave era lol


100% 

I was listening with Busted Open Radio - and Bully Ray was chatting with Tony Schiovane and Mark Henry

And they all said the same thing - ‘we might not understand it, but if it pops the crowd, you run with it’

They spoke about OC - and Mark explained how he would go about getting him over - and he would bump logically and whatnot and have no issue - as long as it pops the crowd

Bully Ray says he really wants to do a feud with Marko (tweeted about it too) - and he will have 15k people chanting Marko and put him over by the end of it - just to prove a point - and if it pops the crowd and makes money he is there.

I think we are all kinda past the average age here, which is the problem - more and more I think peeps here fall into the 50+ demo, or close to it (I’m 40 myself) - and stuff we might not wrap our heads around is ‘cool’ to an 18 year old

OC, Private Party’s style, Marko Stunt (although, I like all of those ) and so on and so on - and the Bucks are actually VERY good with this - they are marketing geniuses of staying relevant and over with a younger crowd


----------



## Dark Emperor

Taroostyles said:


> So funny and typical. First they couldn't get off the ground. Then they were just a t shirt company.
> 
> Now beating an established WWE product 4 weeks in a row doesnt mean anything?
> 
> Stop with that nonsense. If someone told you 1 year ago that a company started by Cody and The Bucks could week in and week out beat a WWE program you would have laughed at them.


If you told me it was NXT with no familiar names except Balor against a company on prime time cable to Mox & Jericho. I would believe you actually.

But i would assume the viewership would be much higher, that.s the truth.

Either way, it is an achievement to get this far so i wont argue that.


----------



## Blade Runner

Taroostyles said:


> Now beating an established WWE product 4 weeks in a row doesnt mean anything?



NXT wasn't established on television.


I'm willing to bet that literally everyone watching NXT on the WWE Network knew all about Tony Khan's new promotion before it launched. 


Not to mention, AEW have a proven draw like Chris Jericho on their show, while NXT doesn't.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Dark Emperor said:


> Are people really celebrating AEW beating NXT on here? These numbers aren't bad compared to previous drop, but its no cause for celebration.
> 
> If WWE wanted a real war, all they need to do is a NXT special with top stars and heavily promote it and the rating will beat AEW with ease as their audience is only 1m.
> 
> 4-0 THOUGH, WE'RE WINNING THE WAR!!!! lmao.


It just reaffirms that AEW is a thing, and it's real, and there's a healthy appetite for it. NXT has been around for almost 7 years, it's been getting accolades almost the entire time and has a pretty loyal following, and it got a 2-week head start on cable, not to mention the backing of WWE. Most people expected AEW would beat NXT in the ratings because it is still technically WWE's developmental brand; but until it actually happened, I'm sure there was an underlying fear among many that it might not, which would have been an entirely different story. That's all the celebration is about. 

The fact of the matter is, WWE shot themselves in the foot by putting NXT directly opposite AEW for the sole purpose of taking a few eyes off it. They had a slot already on USA that fans were used to tuning into on Tuesday nights, and they'd probably be holding much better numbers there without the competition, and we'd be having a completely different discussion.


----------



## Not Lying

AEW should simply concern itself with putting on good product and word will get out. It has a large fanbase inside and outside the US already, the news will spread and if they're continuing to establish themselves and find their identity. As long as TNT is happy (i'm pretty sure they are), no concerns, I'm sure within the next couple of months we could start seeing some small more consistent increase than now.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Are people really celebrating AEW beating NXT on here? These numbers aren't bad compared to previous drop, but its no cause for celebration.
> 
> If WWE wanted a real war, all they need to do is a NXT special with top stars and heavily promote it and the rating will beat AEW with ease as their audience is only 1m.
> 
> 4-0 THOUGH, WE'RE WINNING THE WAR!!!! lmao.


Nobody here except a select few cares about beating NXT

NXT is as far from Dynamite as Dynamite is currently from RAW - there is no fight there worth mentioning or worrying about

What most are excited here for, is that in a very tough week, they went UP in the key demo - so they grew in the eyes of advertisers. Against stiff competition

On cable, 2nd in their timeslot and 4th overall - and that is not nothing

Its also a LOT more significant than ‘1m viewers’ - the data is extrapolated to digital, sponsorships and the rest. Advertisers are potentially seeing a very engaging avenue to reach a key market

Or do you think they dunked Jericho in Dippin Dots for fun? And then afterwards they make a twitter deal on a new Rocky Rhodes flavour with them

C’mon guys....


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

V-Trigger said:


> Just to let everybody know. Stay way from this section until next week if you don't want to end up getting AIDS.


I saw your warning. I did not heed it. I am now regretting it. 







Now where's my penicillin.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

So they gained viewers in the key 18-49 demo while NXT lost viewers. That's solid. They'll be back above 1m once the World Series is over for sure. Hopefully it doesn't go to a game 7 next Wednesday. 4-0. :mark


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> Fair enough, its just amusing to me that people are taking it as a real war. For AEW's sake, lets hope it doesn't turn into a proper war. 1m viewers is no reason to pump chest.


Agree the pissing contest and chest pumping is a little silly. But that's just the fandom coming out. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> 100%
> 
> I was listening with Busted Open Radio - and Bully Ray was chatting with Tony Schiovane and Mark Henry
> 
> And they all said the same thing - ‘we might not understand it, but if it pops the crowd, you run with it’
> 
> They spoke about OC - and Mark explained how he would go about getting him over - and he would bump logically and whatnot and have no issue - as long as it pops the crowd
> 
> Bully Ray says he really wants to do a feud with Marko (tweeted about it too) - and he will have 15k people chanting Marko and put him over by the end of it - just to prove a point - and if it pops the crowd and makes money he is there.
> 
> I think we are all kinda past the average age here, which is the problem - more and more I think peeps here fall into the 50+ demo, or close to it (I’m 40 myself) - and stuff we might not wrap our heads around is ‘cool’ to an 18 year old
> 
> OC, Private Party’s style, Marko Stunt (although, I like all of those ) and so on and so on - and the Bucks are actually VERY good with this - they are marketing geniuses of staying relevant and over with a younger crowd


Hey I'm 27 I'm still technically the demo. Though I must admit certain aspects not pop culture move way too fast for me to keep track of lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Agree the pissing contest and chest pumping is a little silly. But that's just the fandom coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I'm 27 I'm still technically the demo. Though I must admit certain aspects not pop culture move way too fast for me to keep track of lol


Young whippersnapper 

As an aside, the are doing a Rick and Morty collab for Halloween - which is one of the hottest shows around in geek culture


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187444190059356164


----------



## RainmakerV2

Good for them. That was a good show.


----------



## Y.2.J

LifeInCattleClass said:


> As an aside, the are doing a Rick and Morty collab for Halloween - which is one of the hottest shows around in geek culture
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187444190059356164


That is awesome.
Definitely gotta check that out


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Young whippersnapper
> 
> As an aside, the are doing a Rick and Morty collab for Halloween - which is one of the hottest shows around in geek culture
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187444190059356164


That's a lot of cooler than Hanna Barbera collabs lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Cody says people in the front row are going to get free Rick and Morty masks 

Halloween show is going to be crazy


----------



## Jonhern

KYRA BATARA said:


> The excuse might be valid, but that doesn't change the fact that fewer people are watching AEW during it's crucial building stages. On a graph it looks bad to TNT when they see a consistant downtrend. Some of those that went to watch other shit might not be coming back.
> 
> 
> NXT is in the same boat, although they still have their own WWE Network as a lifejacket if ever this move to USA doesn't work out. It's also the developmental brand so it's not as concerning as if it were RAW or SD.


They have been in top 10 every week and top 5 three of the four weeks. Tnt did not have anything in the top 150 last October on Wednesday in primetime, they are thrilled to be getting these numbers and only having to pay some production costs and split ad revenue. Thier highest rated scripted shows last year were in the .3 average for the season. AEW first month average is .52 and will be on every single week. Anyone who says tnt is worried are either trolling or just fucking dense.


----------



## looper007

Great rating considering the World Series and NBA has just started up again. Both shows were going to take a hit. 

I know you get a few on here trying to spin into a negative but that's on them.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody *says people in the front row are going to get free Rick and Morty masks*
> 
> Halloween show is going to be crazy


He didn't say that only the people in the front row will have masks


----------



## AEW_19

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Cody says people in the front row are going to get free Rick and Morty masks
> 
> Halloween show is going to be crazy


They're definitely hiding someone under one of the masks ?.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Top 5 again. 3 out of 4 weeks. Have you noticed they’re getting more and more commercials every week? And it’s serious commercials about pharmaceuticals and senior citizen homes, not Snickers and Doritos. They’re getting serious advertisers


----------



## Ace

TripleG said:


> So the only things that beat it on Cable were two NBA games and American Horror Story?
> 
> Not bad. Not bad at all.
> 
> Meanwhile NXT is getting beat by Guys Grocery Games...the fuck is that?


 AHS is getting really good too.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RapShepard said:


> Agree the pissing contest and chest pumping is a little silly. But that's just the fandom coming out.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey I'm 27 I'm still technically the demo. Though I must admit certain aspects not pop culture move way too fast for me to keep track of lol


I’m 62, so I may as well just turn it off and go watch pr0n. :lol



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Young whippersnapper
> 
> As an aside, the are doing a Rick and Morty collab for Halloween - which is one of the hottest shows around in geek culture
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1187444190059356164


Oh boy, this oughtta be interesting.


----------



## looper007

Ace said:


> AHS is getting really good too.


What's that on now, season 8 or 9. You don't get renewed unless you got a large following.


----------



## Jedah

Last week's rating was good and this week's was great considering the competition. Hopefully they'll hover around a million views. That looks like where we might end up.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*"In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with 1,001,000 viewers for Private Party vs. Lucha Brothers. SCU vs. Dark Order gained 38,000 viewers. Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela lost 131,000 viewers (the key to the decline was two commercial breaks in that segment). The Jericho-Cody angle and beginning of Young Bucks vs. Best Friends gained 83,000 viewers. The ending of Young Bucks vs. Best Friends and beginning of Britt Baker vs. Jamie Hayter lost 82,000 viewers. The end of Baker vs. Hayter lost 7,000 viewers. Jon Moxley vs. Pac gained 34,000 viewers."*

Jericho/Cody angle was a hit, and Moxley/PAC did well. People memed on Dark Order and they literally gained viewers, unfortunate to see Omega/Janela drop, but two commercial breaks will do that. They really need to do build Omega's character and personality for new viewers.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

looper007 said:


> What's that on now, season 8 or 9. You don't get renewed unless you got a large following.


Halfway through season 9. They aired their one hundredth episode last night and they always have a relatively strong demo.


----------



## Mox Girl

I must be out of touch lol, I just went "....but why?" when I saw the Rick & Morty thing for Halloween. I've never watched that show in my life so I don't get it :lol


----------



## DOTL

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’m 62, so I may as well just turn it off and go watch pr0n. :lol
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy, this oughtta be interesting.


People still reference Rick and Morty?


I thought that got played out in 2017.


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> *"In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with 1,001,000 viewers for Private Party vs. Lucha Brothers. SCU vs. Dark Order gained 38,000 viewers. Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela lost 131,000 viewers (the key to the decline was two commercial breaks in that segment). The Jericho-Cody angle and beginning of Young Bucks vs. Best Friends gained 83,000 viewers. The ending of Young Bucks vs. Best Friends and beginning of Britt Baker vs. Jamie Hayter lost 82,000 viewers. The end of Baker vs. Hayter lost 7,000 viewers. Jon Moxley vs. Pac gained 34,000 viewers."*
> 
> Jericho/Cody angle was a hit, and Moxley/PAC did well. People memed on Dark Order and they literally gained viewers, unfortunate to see Omega/Janela drop, but two commercial breaks will do that. They really need to do build Omega's character and personality for new viewers.


 My brother who is a lapsed fan actually got up to see the Cody-Jericho segment once he overhead it.

He also really liked the opening tag.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Sooooo like people have been saying. More promos and non-match segments.

Omega has been good for ratings previously so I'll just blame this on the commercials but with what they have with Omega he should be running away with segments and hooking viewers like nobody's business. There's more to him than matches put a mic in his face already damn


----------



## AEDub

Ratings dropped _*AGAIN?!?!?!!!*_

This is not good, not good at all.

For those of you keeping track, AEW's ratings trend look a little somethin' somethin' like this:

*Week 1: -
Week 2: Down From Week 1
Week 3: Down From Week 2
Week 4: Down From Week 3
Week 5: DEFINITELY GOING UP THIS WEEK!*

Meltzer says this is good, though. Networks love when ratings continuously drop week to week. TNT must be thrilled.


----------



## rbl85

I think they can do a better job on when they put the commercial breaks.

Sometimes there is not a commercial break for a "long" time and sometimes there is 2 commercial breaks really close to each other.


----------



## looper007

AEDub said:


> Ratings dropped _*AGAIN?!?!?!!!*_
> 
> This is not good, not good at all.
> 
> For those of you keeping track, AEW's ratings trend look a little somethin' somethin' like this:
> 
> *Week 1: -
> Week 2: Down From Week 1
> Week 3: Down From Week 2
> Week 4: Down From Week 3
> Week 5: DEFINITELY GOING UP THIS WEEK!*
> 
> Meltzer says this is good, though. Networks love when ratings continuously drop week to week. TNT must be thrilled.


Is that you Woody or AEW Moxley or The DRaw, hello. Love how these new accounts get started up and have AEW in there names lol.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

I thought the hit would be harder than this. That has to be encouraging for TNT and AEW that despite going under a million viewers overall, their demo in specific groups actually increased and tripled the amount that NXT did. Funny how people are going to spin this as a negative for AEW and TNT when if the tables flipped and it was NXT beating AEW 4-0, I can bet a lot of these replies wouldn't exist. Regardless, as long as AEW puts on quality programming and doesn't insult its audience, they will be fine. I wouldn't be surprised if they garner over a million next week.

Next week will be interesting to see if AEW and NXT can bounce back from the ratings assuming the World Series doesn't extend to next week and the NBA hype begins to decline.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> *"In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with 1,001,000 viewers for Private Party vs. Lucha Brothers. SCU vs. Dark Order gained 38,000 viewers. Kenny Omega vs. Joey Janela lost 131,000 viewers (the key to the decline was two commercial breaks in that segment). The Jericho-Cody angle and beginning of Young Bucks vs. Best Friends gained 83,000 viewers. The ending of Young Bucks vs. Best Friends and beginning of Britt Baker vs. Jamie Hayter lost 82,000 viewers. The end of Baker vs. Hayter lost 7,000 viewers. Jon Moxley vs. Pac gained 34,000 viewers."*
> 
> Jericho/Cody angle was a hit, and Moxley/PAC did well. People memed on Dark Order and they literally gained viewers, unfortunate to see Omega/Janela drop, but two commercial breaks will do that. They really need to do build Omega's character and personality for new viewers.


Moxley's streak continues. He's the only guy who has gained viewers every time he's been on screen, even against a geek like Spears and a guy like Pac, who lost a ton of viewers on debut night. When they put Moxley in the title feud, those numbers are going to be massive. 

The numbers for that Omega match, though. Yikes. His match on AEW Dark didn't provide any bump, either.


----------



## DOPA

These fucking Alt troll accounts :lmao.

Absolute try hards.


----------



## Randy Lahey

AEDub said:


> Ratings dropped _*AGAIN?!?!?!!!*_
> 
> This is not good, not good at all.
> 
> For those of you keeping track, AEW's ratings trend look a little somethin' somethin' like this:
> 
> *Week 1: -
> Week 2: Down From Week 1
> Week 3: Down From Week 2
> Week 4: Down From Week 3
> Week 5: DEFINITELY GOING UP THIS WEEK!*
> 
> Meltzer says this is good, though. Networks love when ratings continuously drop week to week. TNT must be thrilled.



I have to laugh at the WWE geeks trying to trash AEW's ratings. They absolutely destroyed NXT. Who's to say they wouldn't destroy Raw if you put them on head to head?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEWMoxley said:


> His match on AEW Dark didn't provide any bump, either.


Nah, Omega's dark match did well, the 2nd episode of Dark has more views than the first and has been up for a week less.

Contrast that to like NWA Power, where the first episode has 500k views to the 2nds 280k, the first episode of a series is always going to do the best, but Omega against Janela bucked that trend.

Episode 3 of dark is trending way lower than episode 2 as well.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So what I gather from those numbers is that they're still doing well.

Good to Know. AEW still killing it.


----------



## AEDub

Wanna know how far expectations for AEW have dropped? We went from thinking they could legitimately compete with WWE on week 1, to pretending like ratings not dropping as much as we expected is a victory in week 4.

"Ratings didn't drop as much as I expected" isn't a positive. It's putting a delusional smiley face on a negative. AEW's style does not draw, and the company is on their way being off of TNT and on Destination America within six months.


----------



## .MCH

Only thing I'm getting off of all of this is that there isn't going to be another boom period in wrestling. AEW's roster is severely lacking and Vince's lack of building new stars over the years has finally come back to bite him in the ass.


----------



## AEDub

Impact Wrestling remains the best thing going on in wrestling today. If you gave current Impact a money mark like Tony Khan, and a prime time spot on a major network like TNT, they could compete with WWE, and probably surpass them in time.

AEW can't, not as long as they focus on a tiny, niche audience. Millions of people aren't tuning in to watch four 15+ minute fake fights. If they wanted that, they'd watch actual combat sports.


----------



## Chrome

Randy Lahey said:


> I have to laugh at the WWE geeks trying to trash AEW's ratings. They absolutely destroyed NXT. Who's to say they wouldn't destroy Raw if you put them on head to head?


'E drones are clearly triggered by AEW's existence to the point where they're making alts with pro-AEW names and then just shitting on AEW. 

Also, did the rejoiner geek above me really try to hype up Impact? :lmao

The same Impact that got like 12,000 views on Twitch earlier this year lol? I got no issue with Impact but you can't shit on AEW and call it a failure and hype up Impact when they do numbers like that.


----------



## ClintDagger

Sucks they fell below a million but it was a big sports night. All in all it’s a solid number. It doesn’t look like the WS will go 7 games so the rating should bounce back next week. If it falls further down, then I think it’s time to get a little concerned.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Nah, Omega's dark match did well, the 2nd episode of Dark has more views than the first and has been up for a week less.
> 
> Contrast that to like NWA Power, where the first episode has 500k views to the 2nds 280k, the first episode of a series is always going to do the best, but Omega against Janela bucked that trend.
> 
> Episode 3 of dark is trending way lower than episode 2 as well.


The "bump" was a 0.5% increase. Under 1%.


----------



## Jonhern

AEDub said:


> Wanna know how far expectations for AEW have dropped? We went from thinking they could legitimately compete with WWE on week 1, to pretending like ratings not dropping as much as we expected is a victory in week 4.
> 
> "Ratings didn't drop as much as I expected" isn't a positive. It's putting a delusional smiley face on a negative. AEW's style does not draw, and the company is on their way being off of TNT and on Destination America within six months.



Dude they are a top 5 show, Tnt doesn't pay much for them to begin with too, in what world would they take them off thier network. If you are going to troll at least put some effort into it.


----------



## Deathiscoming

*Why the AEW ratings obsession?*

Does it even matter what the ratings are and whether or not AEW is beating NXT or Raw or SD on any given night?

It's 2019 and people can choose or prefer to watch a show's repeat telecast or DVR version.

It was different back in 1996 when options like repeat telecast/DVR/illegal stream were almost nonexistent or at best hard to find and so if you MISSED out on either Raw/Nitro, you could've missed some VERY IMPORTANT SEGMENT. But this was also a time you had un-missable characters, performers and rivalries involving Austin, Rock, Mick Foley, the NWO and entire divisions like midcard, tag-team and cruiserweight divisions were loaded with stars like Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Owen Hart. Even watching a Val Venis or Godfather entrance or promo segment was far more enjoyable than most 10-15 minute segments WWE airs on the main shows today.

So yeah, no such stars or un-missable segments exist today. You can pretty much stream or get a repeat telecast even if there was some must-see part that you did miss out on. So how does it matter if on a Wednesday night, 500K viewers decide to watch NxT live and AEW later, or vice versa? 

If a show is good, a sensible fan would watch it later during the week anyway. A wrestling show in 2019 barely has the limited hours per season and must-see content/drama/story such as that of a Game of Thrones season anyway for them to intensely crave to watch it as quickly as it airs(such as GoT Final season), despite knowing they could always watch repeat telecasts/streams/DVDs later. 

And suppose more people watch Dynamite(Live) over NxT, but if they hear/read other people say "watch the NxT triple threat match" or "Finn Balor turned heel," they're also going to be watching NxT later. And may be next week they may watch NxT live and Dynamite later. So why this obsession? It's not 1996 any more.


----------



## BigCy

About what I expected ratings wise. I've been critical of AEW but I must say they are holding around a steady 1.0 which is halfway decent considering all the factors. So overall I think they are doing well but I think it's still too early to call anything a trend either positive or negative but the critical side of me is thinking if they continue to drop each week even if it's a little then that is not an overall positive and I think the only real cause for worry will be if it gets below 0.85, that would tell me that it doesn't have long term appeal to many people. 

Just wait and see for now. I wish them the best and hopefully they will start finding ways to be more appealing to more people. I feel like they could honestly do better (or maybe I just want to see them do better?) but they haven't done terrible either imo. I went from super positive about them to slightly negative and am now lukewarm.


----------



## Chip Chipperson

*Re: Why the AEW ratings obsession?*

People who don't like the WWE want confirmation that "their type of wrestling" (AEW) is the way to go. Validation really.


----------



## NascarStan

AEDub said:


> Impact Wrestling remains the best thing going on in wrestling today. If you gave current Impact a money mark like Tony Khan, and a prime time spot on a major network like TNT, they could compete with WWE, and probably surpass them in time.
> 
> AEW can't, not as long as they focus on a tiny, niche audience. Millions of people aren't tuning in to watch four 15+ minute fake fights. If they wanted that, they'd watch actual combat sports.


Second highest non NBA game on Cable and improved in the key demographic all while having to compete with the World Series

Delusional if you think AEW is being yanked in six months


----------



## Chan Hung

One thing that is certain is that the demographic of all elite wrestling is really important because those guys are more likely to shop and purchase things then people over 50 which are the NXT core audience


----------



## Jonhern

*Re: Why the AEW ratings obsession?*



Deathiscoming said:


> Does it even matter what the ratings are and whether or not AEW is beating NXT or Raw or SD on any given night?
> 
> It's 2019 and people can choose or prefer to watch a show's repeat telecast or DVR version.
> 
> It was different back in 1996 when options like repeat telecast/DVR/illegal stream were almost nonexistent or at best hard to find and so if you MISSED out on either Raw/Nitro, you could've missed some VERY IMPORTANT SEGMENT. But this was also a time you had un-missable characters, performers and rivalries involving Austin, Rock, Mick Foley, the NWO and entire divisions like midcard, tag-team and cruiserweight divisions were loaded with stars like Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Owen Hart. Even watching a Val Venis or Godfather entrance or promo segment was far more enjoyable than most 10-15 minute segments WWE airs on the main shows today.
> 
> So yeah, no such stars or un-missable segments exist today. You can pretty much stream or get a repeat telecast even if there was some must-see part that you did miss out on. So how does it matter if on a Wednesday night, 500K viewers decide to watch NxT live and AEW later, or vice versa?
> 
> If a show is good, a sensible fan would watch it later during the week anyway. A wrestling show in 2019 barely has the limited hours per season and must-see content/drama/story such as that of a Game of Thrones season anyway for them to intensely crave to watch it as quickly as it airs(such as GoT Final season), despite knowing they could always watch repeat telecasts/streams/DVDs later.
> 
> And suppose more people watch Dynamite(Live) over NxT, but if they hear/read other people say "watch the NxT triple threat match" or "Finn Balor turned heel," they're also going to be watching NxT later. And may be next week they may watch NxT live and Dynamite later. So why this obsession? It's not 1996 any more.


Because tv shows make almost all thier money from the live audience. That's why things like sports which wrestling is related too are things networks want because most people watch it live. For instance look at the dvr ratings for Smackdown on fox, the increase has been the same for +3 and +7 dvr ratings, so people are watching sdl on dvr within 3 days but not after, basically before raw airs. the precent increase for SDL is way below other shows, around 10-14%, but still above actual sports which usually have 0% increase. People don't really watch wrestling on dvr and that's actually a good thing, because while networks love to state the final dvr ratings because of the 60-100% increase some shows get, advertisers don't give a dam about them because dvr viewers don't watch the commercials. Which is why people here care what the rating is, if aew is to be successful and sustainable they need to get good ratings. All those other viewers that might be watching are great for other reasons, ie buying ppv, merch, tickets, etc. But they don't matter for what will likely be thier largest revenue stream.


----------



## NXT Only

AEW is also available on demand, I noticed this weekend browsing for a movie to watch with my family and saw that Dynamite was available there.


----------



## IronMan8

*A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

I’d like to invite someone, anyone, to prove me wrong. 

I’ll present a condensed argument of what I interpret to be Russo’s core logic that recently elicited Cody’s public disapproval.

1. Ratings may or may not be their #1 priority for existing. And it’s okay if it’s not.

2. If AEW is going to portray itself as a realistic sport, then it should double-down on being a realistic sport. And that would be perfectly okay too.

3. When they present themselves as a realistic sport, then people are going to question them if something looks unrealistic. E.g. Marko Stunt. 

That is where he was being critical - but only if ratings are their #1 priority. 

If AEW prioritises catering to the current pool of wrestling fans, then that’s fine. 

But if if if their goal is to present a realistic sport aiming to captivate the mass audience - then he’s saying they’ll need to adjust the above, because it’s unrealistic. 

Is the above logic how you guys understand the criticism? 

It feels like the Russo backlash is unwarranted in this case. Is this wrong?


----------



## looper007

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Sorry anything with Russo's name in it, I just can't take seriously. This is a man who drove WCW and TNA down the toilet. Yes he had a idea or two that worked when he was under more control in WWF, but I'm sorry Russo and good criticism can go stick it.


----------



## Deathiscoming

*Re: Why the AEW ratings obsession?*



Jonhern said:


> Because tv shows make almost all thier money from the live audience. That's why things like sports which wrestling is related too are things networks want because most people watch it live. For instance look at the dvr ratings for Smackdown on fox, the increase has been the same for +3 and +7 dvr ratings, so people are watching sdl on dvr within 3 days but not after, basically before raw airs. the precent increase for SDL is way below other shows, around 10-14%, but still above actual sports which usually have 0% increase. People don't really watch wrestling on dvr and that's actually a good thing, because while networks love to state the final dvr ratings because of the 60-100% increase some shows get, advertisers don't give a dam about them because dvr viewers don't watch the commercials. Which is why people here care what the rating is, if aew is to be successful and sustainable they need to get good ratings. All those other viewers that might be watching are great for other reasons, ie buying ppv, merch, tickets, etc. But they don't matter for what will likely be thier largest revenue stream.


Thank you for explaining. I have two questions.

1)What happens when more and more people start to do the smart thing and watch Wrestling only in a stream/DVR format without the advertisement/commercials, and yet still watch other Sports live, but just stop watching wrestling live ? As you know,fewer people are watching the WWE live today than ever, as evidenced by the historically low viewership.

2)Do you think a time comes when only 1 Million or 500K viewers watch Raw or SD live, each week? What would happen if or when this happens? Will the WWE/Wrestling become an On-demand/Netflix like thing?


----------



## Geeee

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Keep in mind that Russo likes to say things just to be controversial and at the moment, criticizing AEW is pretty controversial.


----------



## CrystalFissure

From the Observer:

For the ratings for last week in Canada, Smackdown on 10/11 for the draft dropped to 201,300 viewers, Raw on 10/14 was up to 294,000 viewers, NXT didn’t crack the sports top ten for its night *while AEW fell to 108,000 viewers*, which was a 29.4 percent drop, although those in Canada blamed this drop to the Toronto Maple Leafs playing head-to-head, which kills all competing sports

For 10/18, Smackdown was down to 125,800 viewers, 10/21 Raw did 169,800 viewers with the giant decline due to the Maple Leafs. *AEW, which didn’t battle the Maple Leafs, but still faced the World Series that did near Maple Leaf numbers, was up to 150,700*. It was the first time Raw fell below 200,000 viewers since April. NXT didn’t place on Friday which means less than 87,000 viewers

Good numbers in Canada, that's for sure.


----------



## GangrelWarfare

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Vince Russo makes a valid point. AEW is sending conflicting messages in their product. They want to present themselves as sportslike but feature visibly rehearsed spotfests. They want to be serious but feature acts like Marko Stunt and Orange Cassidy.

Both WWE and AEW have this problem. They're trying to find/retain an audience by any means. Maybe fans don't want 30 minute promos or 30 minutes spotfests. Maybe they're just over wrestling altogether and not even the next Austin could save ratings.

Ratings do matter despite what apologists would have you believe. There are shows and sports that retain high ratings. They didn't make excuses about basketball, baseball, holidays 20 years ago. The audience has just moved onto other forms of entertainment and maybe there's just nothing that will ever bring them back.

The internet hivemind of "Russo said it argument lost" is just an admission of an inability to rebut what he is saying. Saying he killed WCW or TNA is ridiculous. Saying he had nothing to do with WWF's success in the 90's is ridiculous. He has made terrible arguments about many subjects. This isn't one of them.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Strong number with the sports competition going on. The demo holding up is key here.

Older fans 50+ left for baseball. AEW still has tons of room to grow and i think they will when there are no major games going on.


----------



## Deathiscoming

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

I am with Vince Russo no matter what he says/his criticism. Also agree with the OP.

Also, Russo had nothing to do with TNA and WCW going out of business. It was Hogan/Nash/Bischoff.


----------



## Blade Runner

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



looper007 said:


> Sorry anything with Russo's name in it, I just can't take seriously. *This is a man who drove WCW and TNA down the toilet*. Yes he had a idea or two that worked when he was under more control in WWF, but I'm sorry Russo and good criticism can go stick it.




He brought TNA to 2m viewers. 


WCW was already in the toilet when he came in, and he was only head of creative for 4 months. In those 4 months the ratings actually went up. His second stint in WCW he was mainly a talent and threw around ideas but he wasn't in control.


If you can't take him seriously for that reason, then you must not take any other writer/booker seriously ether, because no one ever achieved the success that he did in the Attitude Era, Before he came along, Prichard and Cornette were creating shit like Mantaur, The Goon and Freddie Joe Floyd while attendance/ratings were at an all time low


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

People take the ‘present as a realistic sport’ thing way too literally. Ditto wins and losses matter. 

And Russo is a self-important moron who gives himself way more credit than he ever deserved. For every one idea that might have taken off, he had 20 that were utter shit. IF he had anything to do with increasing ratings for wrestling shows, and that’s a big IF, it was by attracting the MTV crowd and scripted ‘reality’ show geeks. He did NOTHING for wrestling fans other than drive whatever product he worked on into the toilet. 

The AEW brain trust has said repeatedly that they are here for wrestling fans, not to win ratings wars.


----------



## Britz94xD

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

I'd pay good money to see Russo vs Cornette on PPV, Make it happen Tony.


----------



## IronMan8

Reggie Dunlop said:


> The AEW brain trust has said repeatedly that they are here for wrestling fans, not to win ratings wars.


This is exactly what Russo stated, like I said above.

He phrases it poorly as “caters to the marks”, but you’re both making the same point.


----------



## IronMan8

Deathiscoming said:


> I am with Vince Russo no matter what he says/his criticism. Also agree with the OP.
> 
> Also, Russo had nothing to do with TNA and WCW going out of business. It was Hogan/Nash/Bischoff.


I want to be correct regardless of who I’m more familiar listening to, so I’ll happily change my mind if someone proves the above argument wrong.

Instead of mocking a person who happens to hold a different opinion to you, we could be learning something.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



IronMan8 said:


> This is exactly what Russo stated, like I said above.
> 
> He phrases it poorly as “caters to the marks”, but you’re both making the same point.


But everything else he’s spewing is utter horseshit.


----------



## fabi1982

Because everyone is pushing the demo argument, I watched it live the last two weeks while in Japan (streamed it, there was no TNT) and the ads honestly werent for the 18-34 audience or would any of you guys buy this all-in-one cooking thing they had or any of the other things? This is just me being curious. Why show all these „old people“ ads when you want to cater to the young audience? Doesnt make sense to me, but I dont know buying habits in the US as I am from Germany.


----------



## Deathiscoming

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



IronMan8 said:


> I want to be correct regardless of who I’m more familiar listening to, so I’ll happily change my mind if someone proves the above argument wrong.
> 
> Instead of mocking a person who happens to hold a different opinion to you, *we could be learning something.*


That's true bro, that's true. :up



Britz94xD said:


> I'd pay good money to see *Russo vs Cornette on PPV*, Make it happen Tony.


Russo vs Cornette on PPV:lol .

Make it a three stages of hell match. An arm-wrestling contest. A boxing match(I wanna see Cornette be KO'd for once :lmao ). And a debate where Cornette would just launch one of his tirades and goes on for an hour and Russo makes intermittent ejaculations of "Calm down Jim!" and "It wasn't me, bro" :russo :cornette


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

fabi1982 said:


> Because everyone is pushing the demo argument, I watched it live the last two weeks while in Japan (streamed it, there was no TNT) and the ads honestly werent for the 18-34 audience or would any of you guys buy this all-in-one cooking thing they had or any of the other things? This is just me being curious. Why show all these „old people“ ads when you want to cater to the young audience? Doesnt make sense to me, but I dont know buying habits in the US as I am from Germany.


That’s actually a very good point. I’m an ‘older’ fan, and I despise those old people commercials (especially pharmaceuticals!), and I don’t understand the makeup of the ads on this show, especially in light of the demo they’re doing the strongest with. I can only assume these sponsors get lined up and packaged before hand for a contracted period of time (I say packaged, because I see the same shit ads on every friggin show I watch), then get revisited periodically to adjust based on overall viewership and demos. Maybe somebody who knows more about how it works can explain. But I would guess in 3 or 6 months we might see an adjustment of ad content that’s targeted more to the stronger demographics.


----------



## fabi1982

Reggie Dunlop said:


> fabi1982 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because everyone is pushing the demo argument, I watched it live the last two weeks while in Japan (streamed it, there was no TNT) and the ads honestly werent for the 18-34 audience or would any of you guys buy this all-in-one cooking thing they had or any of the other things? This is just me being curious. Why show all these „old people“ ads when you want to cater to the young audience? Doesnt make sense to me, but I dont know buying habits in the US as I am from Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s actually a very good point. I’m an ‘older’ fan, and I despise those old people commercials (especially pharmaceuticals!), and I don’t understand the makeup of the ads on this show, especially in light of the demo they’re doing the strongest with. I can only assume these sponsors get lined up and packaged before hand for a contracted period of time (I say packaged, because I see the same shit ads on every friggin show I watch), then get revisited periodically to adjust based on overall viewership and demos. Maybe somebody who knows more about how it works can explain. But I would guess in 3 or 6 months we might see an adjustment of ad content that’s targeted more to the stronger demographics.
Click to expand...

Ok that makes sense, was my first guess as well that this is the „default“ ad product and once they know better they will adjust. Lets wait and see, but I guess you are right.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

fabi1982 said:


> Because everyone is pushing the demo argument, I watched it live the last two weeks while in Japan (streamed it, there was no TNT) and the ads honestly werent for the 18-34 audience or would any of you guys buy this all-in-one cooking thing they had or any of the other things? This is just me being curious. Why show all these „old people“ ads when you want to cater to the young audience? Doesnt make sense to me, but I dont know buying habits in the US as I am from Germany.


Advertisers have a much different outlook

The first thing that they will look at here is that it skews heavily male
Then they will see it is tv-14

While the 12 - 34 is good, it is also male - so, you have to assume kids watching with dads, single dads or single men

Then you start to see stuff that works in that mindset. All-in-one cooker = easier life for single man, single male parent

Retirement stuff = future proofing that 40+ year olds are after

And so on and so on. Basically, you start to target programs and see the results and act accordingly

Source: I used to be one of the biggest tv advertisers in South Africa. Working for a mobile business - I always bought RAW and Smackdown as I got great results from it

A lot of times, ads in new untested programs will go ‘unsold’ - so the companies gets a big discount to try them out. This is people trying them out - results will dictate how its sold in 3 months time


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> fabi1982 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because everyone is pushing the demo argument, I watched it live the last two weeks while in Japan (streamed it, there was no TNT) and the ads honestly werent for the 18-34 audience or would any of you guys buy this all-in-one cooking thing they had or any of the other things? This is just me being curious. Why show all these „old people“ ads when you want to cater to the young audience? Doesnt make sense to me, but I dont know buying habits in the US as I am from Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Advertisers have a much different outlook
> 
> The first thing that they will look at here is that it skews heavily male
> Then they will see it is tv-14
> 
> While the 12 - 34 is good, it is also male - so, you have to assume kids watching with dads, single dads or single men
> 
> Then you start to see stuff that works in that mindset. All-in-one cooker = easier life for single man, single male parent
> 
> Retirement stuff = future proofing that 40+ year olds are after
> 
> And so on and so on. Basically, you start to target programs and see the results and act accordingly
> 
> Source: I used to be one of the biggest tv advertisers in South Africa. Working for a mobile business - I always bought RAW and Smackdown as I got great results from it
Click to expand...

Ok this makes even more sense and coming from someone who has knowledge, I say thank you for your input ?


----------



## thorn123

I watch on fite tv, I wonder how many people watch that? I like Raw and Smackdown. I like Dynamite much more. I just wish other WWE diehards would watch. How low would the numbers have to go before it’s cancelled?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DaveRA said:


> I watch on fite tv, I wonder how many people watch that? I like Raw and Smackdown. I like Dynamite much more. I just wish other WWE diehards would watch. How low would the numbers have to go before it’s cancelled?


I think it will have to go lower than their normal Wed average - which was 500k(but like 0.10 in the key demo I think)

And even then, I think it will be moved to a smaller channel

But we are massively far away from that

AEW is here to stay.... everybody can relax


----------



## Mister Sinister

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

They need to continue to present a balance of entertainment/sensationalism, aggressive wrestling and main events that are long enough to tell a real story. They don't need to be black and white as Russo thinks.

It doesn't have to be a straight sports-wrestling show that is dry as Russo's grandmother's cooter to deliver on the promise of attracting more sports fans. It is already trumping the wrestling of WWE.

If they go too far with the sports angle, they lose the kids and family audience. They have to look at characters like Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy as potential hooks for kids.

If you follow the sports argument to its end, we can't have any masked wrestlers like Pentagon and Fenix. At some point we have to step back from concepts like "it's going to be more sports-like" and look at the industry for what it is-- there are masked wrestlers, men in panties, face paint, tassels and moves off the top rope.


----------



## IronMan8

Mister Sinister said:


> They need to continue to present a balance of entertainment/sensationalism, aggressive wrestling and main events that are long enough to tell a real story. They don't need to be black and white as Russo thinks.
> 
> It doesn't have to be a straight sports-wrestling show that is dry as Russo's grandmother's cooter to deliver on the promise of attracting more sports fans. It is already trumping the wrestling of WWE.
> 
> If they go too far with the sports angle, they lose the kids and family audience. They have to look at characters like Marko Stunt, Darby Allin, Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy as potential hooks for kids.


I agree with this.

I believe Russo said if that’s what they are, then tell us that’s what they are.

And that balance will be influenced when they sit down and look at the numbers 3 months from now.

Is anything he said wrong?

Cody publicly shamed him for what I’ve outlined above, so I don’t understand.


----------



## Beatles123

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



GangrelWarfare said:


> The internet hivemind of "Russo said it argument lost" is just an admission of an inability to rebut what he is saying.


Oh no it isn't. It's an admission that Russo is a piece of shit human being who doesn't DESERVE my rebuttal and is a waste of my time and anyone that entertains anything he has to say.


----------



## patpat

They held themselves very well against world series + nba , have an estimated base of 1million viewers made of a young audience in the 18-49 demo and the 18-34 demo. They are up from 5th on cable last week to 4th this week and are building a lot of goodwill with their show being criticised positively 

Russo with his moronic retarded garbage and stupid booking he pulled in tna needs to shut the fuck up forever. When you had a roster with Hogan flair and all of that and you couldn't build anything substantial you need to shut the fuck up eternally. Period

But! His statement about them finding the balance is actually true, however they cannot tell us anything we will notice it with the passing weeks and they will adapt their product until they find the right balance. The problem with Russia's reasoning is that he wants them to be a definitive product and claim what they are already when away they need to do is continue to experiment and adapt until they find their footing. Russo has some point but fuck him because I dont care about his opinion.


----------



## Jonhern

*Re: Why the AEW ratings obsession?*



Deathiscoming said:


> Thank you for explaining. I have two questions.
> 
> 1)What happens when more and more people start to do the smart thing and watch Wrestling only in a stream/DVR format without the advertisement/commercials, and yet still watch other Sports live, but just stop watching wrestling live ? As you know,fewer people are watching the WWE live today than ever, as evidenced by the historically low viewership.
> 
> 2)Do you think a time comes when only 1 Million or 500K viewers watch Raw or SD live, each week? What would happen if or when this happens? Will the WWE/Wrestling become an On-demand/Netflix like thing?


1) WWE low ratings are not necessarily people time-shifting, like I said eailrer they don't get a big bump from DVR views. Nor is it consistant with cord-cutting, they are losing more people than the rest of cable. Their product has been stale and outright bad for a long time and people are tuning out. Even their network numbers are stagnant or declining, so their issues are not about people watching by other means. I think wrestling still has an appeal to be watched live and won't lose that. I don't see AEW moving to streaming, it really depends not on their raw numbers, but how they are doing in relation to the rest of cable. 

2)As too what happens if the numbers keep dropping, really depends on what the rest of cable does. WWE is still a top 10 show every week, and top show several months of the year because they never take a break. That is their biggest asset to USA and FOX, the latter of which no longer has its own studio which makes other scripted shows much more expensive, SDL is actually a bargain for them when you break down the numbers. This is likely a big reason for TNT to bring AEW on, the all year aspect of wrestling. 

More likely I think if all of cable keeps dropping you will see a push for Nielson to start counting over the top tv distributors, like sling and youtubetv, which show commercials. thier methodology changes over time, for instance, next year the nationals will start counting out of home tv viewing, currently the ratings only count in-home viewing, so expect to see the nfl beating raw by even bigger margins, since RAW likely won't get a boost from this change. I never see it on at bars.


----------



## Blade Runner

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Reggie Dunlop said:


> IF he had anything to do with increasing ratings for wrestling shows, and that’s a big IF, it was by attracting the MTV crowd and scripted ‘reality’ show geeks. He did NOTHING for wrestling fans other than drive whatever product he worked on into the toilet.
> .



Lol, no shit he was catering to casuals. Would you be catering to the workrate crowd at a time when WCW and it's nWo angle was pissing all over you from a Helicopter? The only way to grow your audience is to tap into the current Zeitgeist and present colorful/interesting characters in exciting scenarios. The "wrestling" fans are already locked in.


I'm not even a huge fan of the AE myself outside of some key storylines, but that stuff is subjective. To say that he drove the product down the toilet by pulling in 8m viewers is a ludicrous statement. If the WWF didn't change directions in late 1997 then they'd likely be out of business.


----------



## ElectricAngel

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Beatles123 said:


> Oh no it isn't. It's an admission that Russo is a piece of shit human being who doesn't DESERVE my rebuttal and is a waste of my time and anyone that entertains anything he has to say.


Calling him a piece of shit is a bit excessive there. How exactly is he a bad human being?


----------



## 304418

Well, it good to know that at least the TSN ratings after dipping the previous week, went back up. But that the TNT ratings keep going down is concerning. Yes, there was always going to be a ratings decline since more and more people are cutting cable. But I didn’t expect it to be happening so fast and so early for Dynamite. I thought that would have happened later on a few years from now. And I really do believe it’s because the show currently gives vibes that it’s WWE on TNT due to how AEW produces the show. WWE is not considered cool at all whatsoever by the masses. Viewers that are channel flipping and seeing a show that looks like WWE isn’t going to reel them in.

Another thing to consider is that it seems like the American tv audience has a preference to sports, since there is a connection to their team and they can root for them, even if they do not have the best record for the season. AEW does not have that guy you root for above all others like a sports team right now. Like in NJPW, my guy is Naito, and even when he faces another favourite in Okada, I always root and rally for Naito. Another example is Bullet Club. They have their logo, and the flags, and they’re over with the Western wrestling audience. AEW does not seem to have that kind of person or team right now, although they have lots of candidates.


----------



## LongPig666

CrystalFissure said:


> From the Observer:
> 
> For the ratings for last week in Canada, Smackdown on 10/11 for the draft dropped to 201,300 viewers, Raw on 10/14 was up to 294,000 viewers, NXT didn’t crack the sports top ten for its night *while AEW fell to 108,000 viewers*, which was a 29.4 percent drop, although those in Canada blamed this drop to the Toronto Maple Leafs playing head-to-head, which kills all competing sports
> 
> For 10/18, Smackdown was down to 125,800 viewers, 10/21 Raw did 169,800 viewers with the giant decline due to the Maple Leafs. *AEW, which didn’t battle the Maple Leafs, but still faced the World Series that did near Maple Leaf numbers, was up to 150,700*. It was the first time Raw fell below 200,000 viewers since April. NXT didn’t place on Friday which means less than 87,000 viewers
> 
> Good numbers in Canada, that's for sure.


Latest numbers from the UK - (Observer):

AEW: 232,000
Impact: 77,000
Raw: 3,000 This is NOT a typo :laugh::laugh:


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

KYRA BATARA said:


> Lol, no shit he was catering to casuals. Would you be catering to the workrate crowd at a time when WCW and it's nWo angle was pissing all over you from a Helicopter? The only way to grow your audience is to tap into the current Zeitgeist and present colorful/interesting characters in exciting scenarios. The "wrestling" fans are already locked in.
> 
> 
> I'm not even a huge fan of the AE myself outside of some key storylines, but that stuff is subjective. To say that he drove the product down the toilet by pulling in 8m viewers is a ludicrous statement. If the WWF didn't change directions in late 1997 then they'd likely be out of business.


You’re talking like he single-handedly changed the wrestling landscape. He didn’t, as much as _he’d_ like you to think he did. He had a few good ideas that Vince ran with amidst many shitty ones. And even his good ideas, while they might have helped attract new viewers, were mostly garbage _as far as wrestling goes_ and started the lengthy trend of turning wrestling fans off of the product. 

AEW is not catering to those viewers, AEW is catering to wrestling fans.


----------



## mike10dude

one thing to take in to consideration with the smackdown numbers in Canada is that most people with cable tv or even just near the border can also get a fox station

and those numbers do not released


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

I always thought the "real sport presentation" claim about AEW was weird, its obviously not even remotely close to looking like a legit sport and never was. Not that thats a problem, but still, not sure why the claim was ever made. 

Just do sports entertainment and do it better than the WWE, imo. Thats not exactly a tough task nowadays either. More stuff like that Cody/Jericho segment this week and i'll be a happy man.


----------



## Stinger Fan

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



KYRA BATARA said:


> He brought TNA to 2m viewers.
> 
> 
> WCW was already in the toilet when he came in, and he was only head of creative for 4 months. In those 4 months the ratings actually went up. His second stint in WCW he was mainly a talent and threw around ideas but he wasn't in control.
> 
> 
> If you can't take him seriously for that reason, then you must not take any other writer/booker seriously ether, because no one ever achieved the success that he did in the Attitude Era, Before he came along, Prichard and Cornette were creating shit like Mantaur, The Goon and Freddie Joe Floyd while attendance/ratings were at an all time low


You're giving Russo far too much credit for...everything. While he was the head of TNA when they reached their highest TV rating, you're ignoring that Hogan was also debuting on that show. Giving all the credit to Russo for that is pretty absurd. TNA also brought in a lot of drawing talent too at that time like RVD and Jeff Hardy. And If I recall correctly, during Aces and Eights angle, wasn't TNA averaging some of their best ratings ? That was without Russo 

If you actually look at the WCW ratings, Russo hardly increased them. In 99, from January till the end of march, with a total of 17 shows they reached a number of 5 or more on 4 occasions and only reached below a 4 rating 3 times(3.9 twice). From then on until Russo came on in October, WCW was averaging around 3.5. Once Russo took over and until he left, he averaged around a 3.3 , he had the lowest rated episode that year with 2.6 and were losing viewers by the end of the year with a 2.8 and 2.9 in December. If you think the 2 week bump(after a decline) makes him some ratings guru sure I Guess, but you can't ignore that numbers quickly declined. In fact, when he came back for a second stint, the ratings only continued to decline further. If you give him credit for a 2 week bump, why don't you blame him for the more common decline? 

Also, Russo was one of the reasons TNA lost their deal with Spike. He nearly killed TNA out right because Dixie kept his re-hiring as much of a secret as possible. That's when they started floating around TV stations and losing pretty much all their fan base. Don't get me wrong here , I'm of the belief that people don't give him enough credit but some people give him way way too much credit and make excuses for his failures and problems that persist with him.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Didn't hear what Russo said and don't care about him



> 2. If AEW is going to portray itself as a realistic sport, then it should double-down on being a realistic sport. And that would be perfectly okay too.


But I agree with this. The realistic sports aspect of the show is what I wanted. Honestly I expected UFC style production, visuals, promos after every fight etc. So far AEW is only a 10% more sporty version of the WWE to me. I'm enjoying the show but it's not what I thought it would be based on the advertising 

MLW and NWA Power currently feel way more like realistic sports than AEW. And with Khan money and TNT platform I think that's a missed opportunity 

The key to staying competitive in the ratings will be to separate themselves more from the WWE


----------



## roadkill_

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Russo says a lot that makes sense. Smarks just wanna smark with their smarky 'purity' and summarily dismiss it.

'Russo is an idiot'.

Bullshit. McMahon felt otherwise. McMahon had that guy sleeping over at his house, repeatedly, as they hammered out scripts for the most successful era in wrestling history.

You just can't deny that this happened.

And I'll tell you something else, he was better than Jim Cornette, and that's why he was promoted. And Cornette has been butthurt over it for 20 years.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



roadkill_ said:


> 'Russo is an idiot'.
> 
> Bullshit.


Russo tweeted about how he's got a law degree and can draw up people's million dollar contracts now.

And misspelled the name of his college in the same tweet.

https://twitter.com/THEVinceRusso/status/1184807528455999488

I don't think it's arguable that he's kind of a moron.


----------



## Death Rider

Tilon said:


> roadkill_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> 'Russo is an idiot'.
> 
> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> Russo tweeted about how he's got a law degree and can draw up people's million dollar contracts now.
> 
> And misspelled the name of his college in the same tweet.
> 
> https://twitter.com/THEVinceRusso/status/1184807528455999488
> 
> I don't think it's arguable that he's kind of a moron.
Click to expand...

Anyone who listens to Russo at this point I question their intelligence. The guy is a proven moron, proven liar and proven cunt.


----------



## Stephen90

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Russo thought Jeff Jarrett was a main event star.


----------



## A-C-P

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Russo :heston


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Russo has defenders now? I'm off. Have a nice day.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Stephen90 said:


> Russo thought Jeff Jarrett was a main event star.


Russo thought 'TNA' would be a great name for a wrestling company. Then lied to the boss saying it meant 'Total Nonstop Action'.

What a douchebag.


----------



## Claro De Luna

LongPig666 said:


> Latest numbers from the UK - (Observer):
> 
> AEW: 232,000
> Impact: 77,000
> Raw: 3,000 This is NOT a typo :laugh::laugh:


Dynamite is also available on ITV catch up app as well as on Fite. Imagine the total views including all of these platforms.


----------



## rbl85

Verbatim17 said:


> Well, it good to know that at least the TSN ratings after dipping the previous week, went back up. But that the TNT ratings keep going down is concerning. Yes, there was always going to be a ratings decline since more and more people are cutting cable. But I didn’t expect it to be happening so fast and so early for Dynamite. I thought that would have happened later on a few years from now.


Everybody knew that it was going to drop after the first week because for 99% of the shows there is always a drop after the first week.

People who think otherwise were just (and i'm sorry to say that) stupid.


----------



## rbl85

I know someone is going to ask on how the tickets selling is doing for the next show.

The answer is simple : impossible to know because the map on Ticketmaster is not interactive. The only thing i know is that there is less than 300 tickets on stubhub.


----------



## Stylebender

Bummed about the low number. Not really low for a startup but for there best show I think 1.2 mil or so would be fair. They are lacking this one huge storyline to reel everyone in. I think Mjf-cody could be that if they pull the trigger at full gear noone will se it coming


----------



## RainmakerV2

DaveRA said:


> I watch on fite tv, I wonder how many people watch that? I like Raw and Smackdown. I like Dynamite much more. I just wish other WWE diehards would watch. How low would the numbers have to go before it’s cancelled?


AEW isnt going anywhere for a while. The only question is, do you want it to take a legit swing at WWE? Or cater to the niche it already has carved out? They took a step at the former this week. Hopefully they continue.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Total viewership doesn’t matter so stop being concerned with that number. It’s about the demo. It went up. Viewership they don’t care about


----------



## llj

LongPig666 said:


> Latest numbers from the UK - (Observer):
> 
> AEW: 232,000
> Impact: 77,000
> Raw: 3,000 This is NOT a typo :laugh::laugh:


The UK and Canada are not WWE sheep like Americans are. They've long realized what a shithole the WWE is.



RubberbandGoat said:


> Total viewership doesn’t matter so stop being concerned with that number. It’s about the demo. It went up. Viewership they don’t care about



Well total viewers does matter. If I played my guitar in a stadium and only two 18 year olds showed up to watch me, I'd technically be winning the 18-49 demo too.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> AEW isnt going anywhere for a while. The only question is, *do you want it to take a legit swing at WWE?* Or cater to the niche it already has carved out? They took a step at the former this week. Hopefully they continue.


They never wanted to do that.

Since the beginning they're saying that AEW is an ALTERNATIVE.

I think it's more a war between the fans than it is between AEW and WWE.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> They never wanted to do that.
> 
> Since the beginning they're saying that AEW is an ALTERNATIVE.
> 
> I think it's more a war between the fans than it is between AEW and WWE.


Whether its their goal or not, they CAN. They have the demo and the money. Its what they wanna do with it.


----------



## 304418

rbl85 said:


> Everybody knew that it was going to drop after the first week because for 99% of the shows there is always a drop after the first week.
> 
> People who think otherwise were just (and i'm sorry to say that) stupid.


Yes, it’s true that the rating was always going to drop after the first show. But I’m right to question ratings dropping three weeks in a row though, especially in light of ratings rising in another country. That’s not stupid at all.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Whether its their goal or not, they CAN. They have the demo and the money. Its what they wanna do with it.


Even if they want to do it, it's going to take a long time.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> RainmakerV2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Whether its their goal or not, they CAN. They have the demo and the money. Its what they wanna do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if they want to do it, it's going to take a long time.
Click to expand...

 this I think they need to grow their young audience first, somehow their audience ( the young one) seems very loyal and stick to the show grow that portion, continue to build good will. Keep yourself in the 1 million ish area , the results for all of this will be seen much later.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

llj said:


> Well total viewers does matter. If I played my guitar in a stadium and only two 18 year olds showed up to watch me, I'd technically be winning the 18-49 demo too.


.......

That is not how that works


----------



## llj

LifeInCattleClass said:


> .......
> 
> That is not how that works


I was kidding that guy.

But you can't just say "total viewers doesn't matter, only demos does." I mean you do still need to have enough total viewers to ultimately win ANY demo. Even if all of it is concentrated in one demo you want, the numbers still have to be there first for that to happen. If the total viewers keep dropping, it stands to reason that demo numbers will inevitably drop too.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

llj said:


> I was kidding that guy.
> 
> But you can't just say "total viewers doesn't matter, only demos does." I mean you do still need to have enough total viewers to ultimately win ANY demo. Even if all of it is concentrated in one demo you want, the numbers still have to be there first for that to happen.


Ah, sorry 

Demo > total numbers

But I guess you should be aware of both - I can take your point

The total number calculation is such a shit one though, even the advertisers ignore it - hence the ‘sorting’ by Demo

But I take your point  k


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Stephen90 said:


> Russo thought Jeff Jarrett was a main event star.


Possibly a bigger sin than giving Arquette the title.


----------



## llj

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah, sorry
> 
> Demo > total numbers
> 
> But I guess you should be aware of both - I can take your point
> 
> The total number calculation is such a shit one though, even the advertisers ignore it - hence the ‘sorting’ by Demo
> 
> But I take your point  k


I think because we're dealing with the 1 millions and less, there is less margin for error here. If it's like a show that does a healthier amount regularly, maybe 2-3m, total isn't as important. But if it's dipping into the 1m and less, it starts affecting the demos more.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Verbatim17 said:


> Yes, it’s true that the rating was always going to drop after the first show. But I’m right to question ratings dropping three weeks in a row though, especially in light of ratings rising in another country. That’s not stupid at all.


Other countries don't follow the world series like american sports lemmings. Let's see how the next few months go without that kind of competition. Let's give the fan base a chance to stabilize and get the word out that there's a new promotion worth checking out and then let's see where it's trending. 

All we need right now is for it to stabilize at a point where TNT is happy and making money. Period. AEW does not have to destroy NXT, it doesn't even have to _beat_ NXT, never mind RAW or Slackdown. It doesn't have to draw in millions of casual fans who go 'ooh shiny' at the pyros and drool wide-eyed at endless promos. It just has to keep enough of a fan base satisfied to stay competitive _against everything else on Wednesday nights from 8-10 PM_ to keep TNT happy.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

llj said:


> I think because we're dealing with the 1 millions and less, there is less margin for error here. If it's like a show that does a healthier amount regularly, maybe 2-3m, total isn't as important. But if it's dipping into the 1m and less, it starts affecting the demos more.


It does get tricky - it seems at the moment for every Nielsen house that tunes out they can lose something like 45k total viewers - depending on the demo of the household

I don’t know, the current rating system is so old and archaic - frankly, I expect better from the US


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Other countries don't follow the world series like american sports lemmings. Let's see how the next few months go without that kind of competition. Let's give the fan base a chance to stabilize and get the word out that there's a new promotion worth checking out and then let's see where it's trending.
> 
> All we need right now is for it to stabilize at a point where TNT is happy and making money. Period. AEW does not have to destroy NXT, it doesn't even have to _beat_ NXT, never mind RAW or Slackdown. It doesn't have to draw in millions of casual fans who go 'ooh shiny' at the pyros and drool wide-eyed at endless promos. It just has to keep a fan base satisfied enough to stay competitive _against everything else on Wednesday nights from 8-10 PM_ to keep TNT happy.


I would say nobody follows the world series outside of North America

I’ve never seen baseball broadcast in any of the 25 countries I’ve been to - it is very much America’s pastime - and maybe Japan - but they are also turning to Rugby now it seems


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LongPig666 said:


> Latest numbers from the UK - (Observer):
> 
> AEW: 232,000
> Impact: 77,000
> Raw: 3,000 This is NOT a typo :laugh::laugh:


holy fuck this can't be true

how does this happen


----------



## Death Rider

optikk sucks said:


> holy fuck this can't be true
> 
> how does this happen


Be a shit product

Be on paid TV

Be on at 1am (though apperently it was a drop from 30k or so)

I mean at one poin apperently TNA were beating WWE in the UK


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Death Rider said:


> Be a shit product
> 
> Be on paid TV
> 
> Be on at 1am (though apperently it was a drop from 30k or so)
> 
> I mean at one poin apperently TNA were beating WWE in the UK


i remember that point in time. TNA was actually doing god numbers out here.

The thing is WWE pride themselves on their product being successful in the UK. Like we are supposed to be a die hard fanbase. Oh yes didn't WWE go to bt sports too? that's probably the main reason.

just checked. they don't even move till january.

WWE gotta be in shambles seeing these numbers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Death Rider said:


> Be a shit product
> 
> Be on paid TV
> 
> Be on at 1am (though apperently it was a drop from 30k or so)
> 
> I mean at one poin apperently TNA were beating WWE in the UK


Did they move to BT yet? Because that’ll do it for sure


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Did they move to BT yet? Because that’ll do it for sure


I just checked. They move in January. So imagine being on the most subscribed sports channel and still only doing 3k. FUCK lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I just checked. They move in January. So imagine being on the most subscribed sports channel and still only doing 3k. FUCK lmao


They haven’t moved yet? Ffffffuck that is bad

The UK is like New York IMO - a barometer for what is cool

These numbers must be worrying to some degree for them


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> They haven’t moved yet? Ffffffuck that is bad
> 
> The UK is like New York IMO - a barometer for what is cool
> 
> These numbers must be worrying to some degree for them


They can guarantee money coming here when they tour - now is there that guarantee? damn. imagine losing a whole country like that.

The product is just not worth someone staying up for. I stopped staying up for this show over 10 years ago. 

Not only that, but people are not even recording using their Sky Q box. very bad lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> They can guarantee money coming here when they tour - now is there that guarantee? damn. imagine losing a whole country like that.
> 
> The product is just not worth someone staying up for. I stopped staying up for this show over 10 years ago.
> 
> Not only that, but people are not even recording using their Sky Q box. very bad lmao


When i was living in the UK I stayed up and recorded as well - attended some shows at the height of the Daniel Bryan era - magic times

I remember us all going to the tube after the shows and ‘yes’ chants everywhere - a sold-out O2 arena

For them to have dropped to this is concerning (not that it affects me - just a shock)


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Beatles123 said:


> Oh no it isn't. It's an admission that Russo is a piece of shit human being who doesn't DESERVE my rebuttal and is a waste of my time and anyone that entertains anything he has to say.


What has he done that makes him a POS human being?


----------



## BigCy

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Russo did way more harm than good in the business and to me he almost single handedly ruined a lot of things about the business that should never have changed such as making title belts into "props" and devaluing championships. This to me is the worst thing he's done and it mostly continues to this day.


----------



## looper007

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



V-Trigger said:


> Russo has defenders now? I'm off. Have a nice day.


Guys who still have a hard on for muscle men, soap opera storylines, and who still believe Attitude era was nigh on perfect but never have watched it. And the truth that 80% was shit outside of Austin, Vince, Rock, Taker, DX stuff. 

Also anyone who's anti-AEW and by god we have a dozen of them on here, who jump on anything even by hacks like Russo to take a dig at AEW.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

They try to make the product seem more realistic with time limits but they can’t even adhere to the rules such as with tag team wrestling and who’s the legal man. It’s a bloody mess. Doing high spots after high spots isn’t good for product since people become numb to it. Also I don’t want to be YouTubing stuff for character development, that should be done in the show. 

What they need the most is something that’ll bring major eye balls into the product, someone like McGregor who’s unscripted and makes the product even more unpredictable.


----------



## IronMan8

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Tilon said:


> Russo tweeted about how he's got a law degree and can draw up people's million dollar contracts now.
> 
> And misspelled the name of his college in the same tweet.
> 
> https://twitter.com/THEVinceRusso/status/1184807528455999488
> 
> I don't think it's arguable that he's kind of a moron.


Um... that tweet is Russo making a joke because Bruce Prichard recently claimed Russo was responsible for drawing up Taz's contract, which is not true. You've not only missed the joke, but assumed he would fake a degree, misspell the college, and be dumb enough to think people would buy it as a reason to draw up million dollar contracts.

Perhaps your absurd assessment of him is the aspect of intelligence that needs to be questioned around here.

You seem to believe that when WWE was facing extinction, VKM chose an undisputed moron to be with him 24/7 as his right-hand-man to turn a losing battle. 

Agree to disagree.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



IronMan8 said:


> You seem to believe that when WWE was facing extinction, VKM chose an undisputed moron to be with him 24/7 as his right-hand-man to turn a losing battle.


Considering the caliber of help with whom he surrounds himself and the current state of his product, I don’t see how this is not well within the realm of possibility.


----------



## jordyjames26

Give moxley a program with Jericho numbers will go up. Janella and the indy trash like best friends will kill this company. They've gotta be real, play wrestlers shouldn't be apart of this. Image is important watching Janella compete with moxley, Omega is embarrassing

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

jordyjames26 said:


> Give moxley a program with Jericho numbers will go up. Janella and the indy trash like best friends will kill this company. They've gotta be real, play wrestlers shouldn't be apart of this. Image is important watching Janella compete with moxley, Omega is embarrassing
> 
> Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


So, what, base the whole company around two guys? Yeah, that’ll surely move the needle. Just stop it with the indy trash shit.


----------



## Natecore

God I love AEW! So many out of date, lame motherfuckers afraid that this “Indy trash” wrestling might be over. Shaking and cowering that what they’ve always said wrestling is really isn’t.

Change the World, Boys!

Trust in the Khan!


----------



## Tilon

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



IronMan8 said:


> Um... that tweet is Russo making a joke because Bruce Prichard recently claimed Russo was responsible for drawing up Taz's contract, which is not true.


So he makes himself look stupid on purpose to anyone who doesn't follow everything Bruce and Russo say to each other, which is almost everybody.

He sure is brilliant.


----------



## NascarStan

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

You can really tell which people on this forum are braindead by if they actually buy thst Russo is a creative genius and not what he truly is - a grifter


----------



## RelivingTheShadow




----------



## Bosnian21

The Inbred Goatman said:


>


Good listen. Seems like TNT is ecstatic with AEW so far.


----------



## Soul Rex

jordyjames26 said:


> Give moxley a program with Jericho numbers will go up. Janella and the indy trash like best friends will kill this company. They've gotta be real, play wrestlers shouldn't be apart of this. Image is important watching Janella compete with moxley, Omega is embarrassing
> 
> Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


Some people may underrate the enormous impact of both Jericho and Moxley in this company, I would literally not give a fuck about this show wasn't because this two.

Specially Jericho who is the one who single handedly is carrying the mic aspect of this show, unfairly because he is the only one allowed to talk, but goddamn take off his segments of this show a it probably would lose more than 200k of their audience.


----------



## IronMan8

Not one poster has provided a counter to my OP.

Looks like I win the argument.



Tilon said:


> IronMan8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Um... that tweet is Russo making a joke because Bruce Prichard recently claimed Russo was responsible for drawing up Taz's contract, which is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> So he makes himself look stupid on purpose to anyone who doesn't follow everything Bruce and Russo say to each other, which is almost everybody.
> 
> He sure is brilliant.
Click to expand...

Did you know that comedy is very often about making yourself appear stupid? 

This is a perfect example of this thread’s premise, actually.

Russo makes a joke, haters choose to see the most negative possible scenario and infer that he’s a moron, then won’t admit they were wrong.

The same level of misunderstanding occurred in response to his mild criticism of AEW.

It seems nobody is capable of providing a counter-argument to this topic. I must be right.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Soul Rex said:


> Some people may underrate the enormous impact of both Jericho and Moxley in this company, I would literally not give a fuck about this show wasn't because this two.
> 
> Specially Jericho who is the one who single handedly is carrying the mic aspect of this show, unfairly because he is the only one allowed to talk, but goddamn take off his segments of this show a it probably would lose more than 200k of their audience.


Overall, you're right, these two have been their best TV draws. However, your statement about Jericho isn't entirely accurate. He's had two live promos - the Inner Circle promo during week 2, and the promo last Wednesday before the brawl. The first one lost viewers, and the one on last Wednesday's episode had a very good gain, but that could have just been the brawl. It was easily the most effort the company has put into a non-wrestling segment. Jericho also lost viewers in last week's main event. This was surprising to me, because like you, I expected him to be a more consistent TV draw.

It will be interesting to see what numbers Moxley's promo segment does next week, given that he's the only guy in the company who has increased viewership in all of his segments, and he's done so without being able to display his strongest asset.


----------



## .christopher.

LongPig666 said:


> Latest numbers from the UK - (Observer):
> 
> AEW: 232,000
> Impact: 77,000
> Raw: 3,000 This is NOT a typo :laugh::laugh:


What makes AEW's ratings so impressive here is that it isn't shown live over here I believe. You actually have to wait for Friday night for the latest episode. And it's shown on a second rate channel in ITV2 instead of ITV1.

So, to do those numbers, when there's many like me who can't be arsed waiting for Friday so I download it Wednesday, on a second rate channel, is good. Imagine if they aired live on ITV1.


----------



## Chan Hung

Natecore said:


> God I love AEW! So many out of date, lame motherfuckers afraid that this “Indy trash” wrestling might be over. Shaking and cowering that what they’ve always said wrestling is really isn’t.
> 
> Change the World, Boys!
> 
> Trust in the Khan!


WWE apparently caters mainly to over 50



The Inbred Goatman said:


>


I heard this and was impressed. Good stuff ?☺


----------



## Daggdag

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*

Russo knows nothing about wrestling, or running a tv show. So his opinions are worthless. WCW ratings tanked the moment he was out in charge for a reason.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Just something interesting to note that I just saw

The key demo 18 - 49

Week on week, the male demo fell - and it seems like they went to baseball - went from a 0.47 to 0.45

But interestingly, the female demo rose from 0.23 to 0.28 - which propped their number

So, if we have a return of the guys after the world series is over, it might pop a good number

But, this is a very strong showing for a wrestling program in ‘female 18-49’


----------



## Taroostyles

Well they better hope Houston loses tonight as if not the likelihood of a game 7 goes way up and they will get CRUSHED.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Taroostyles said:


> Well they better hope Houston loses tonight as if not the likelihood of a game 7 goes way up and they will get CRUSHED.


How will that game be more significant that the last one? Sorry, don’t follow baseball, so dumb it down for me


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> How will that game be more significant that the last one? Sorry, don’t follow baseball, so dumb it down for me


I believe that would be game 7, the absolute deciding game in the best-of-7 series. There will be no tomorrow, winner-takes-all. They usually draw the biggest audiences.


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

jordyjames26 said:


> Give moxley a program with Jericho numbers will go up. Janella and the indy trash like best friends will kill this company. They've gotta be real, play wrestlers shouldn't be apart of this. Image is important watching Janella compete with moxley, Omega is embarrassing


I think their legit FOTC level guys right now are Jericho, Omega, Cody, Mox and MJF. They really need to build the shows around those guys. The lack of mic time they've given to MJF, Mox and Omega so far is such a waste. They should all be cutting promos every week. 

Page, Pac and Hager are pretty good too but a step down from the above in terms of proper main event star potential imo. I think Luchasauras and Pentagon could possibly be at main event level if they were built properly. 

They need to really get their shit together because Jericho is not going to be there an infinite amount of time and right now hes probably their biggest asset.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I believe that would be game 7, the absolute deciding game in the best-of-7 series. There will be no tomorrow, winner-takes-all. They usually draw the biggest audiences.


Ahhhh... ok - yeah, that’ll be big then


----------



## patpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> LifeInCattleClass said:
> 
> 
> 
> How will that game be more significant that the last one? Sorry, don’t follow baseball, so dumb it down for me <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> I believe that would be game 7, the absolute deciding game in the best-of-7 series. There will be no tomorrow, winner-takes-all. They usually draw the biggest audiences.
Click to expand...

 and who won actually ? 
( no offense and off topic but how can baseball be this big in the us? Tries to watch the thing but my god is it long and freaking boring.) 

Keep us informed of how the game is going tho


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Game is still on but Houston is winning and this series feels like it will go to 7 games.


----------



## rbl85

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Game is still on but Houston is winning and this series feels like it will go to 7 games.


Maybe or maybe not


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

patpat said:


> and who won actually ?
> ( no offense and off topic but how can baseball be this big in the us? Tries to watch the thing but my god is it long and freaking boring.)
> 
> Keep us informed of how the game is going tho


Sorry, I can’t stand watching it myself, for exactly the same reasons you can’t. :lol

I know the players are skilled — you can’t appreciate the athleticism involved from watching it on tv. But the games are so goddamn boring, I just can’t get into it.


----------



## HankHill_85

Interesting stats about ratings between Raw, Smackdown and AEW up here in Canada.

AEW is a bigger draw than Smackdown, apparently.

https://ewrestling.com/article/aew-wwe-ratings-viewership-canada-numbers-recent-dynamite-raw-smackdown-shows



> Some ratings and viewership information for recent episodes of AEW Dynamite, WWE RAW and WWE SmackDown on TSN, SportsNet 360 and other cable networks in Canada tell an interesting story.
> 
> In ratings news in Canada, WWE SmackDown on 10/11 dropped to 201,300 while WWE RAW on 10/14 was up to 294,000 viewers.
> 
> AEW Dynamite on 10/16 fell to 108,000 - a 29% drop week-over-week going head-to-head against a NHL Toronto Maple Leafs hockey game.
> 
> WWE SmackDown on 10/18 fell considerably to 125,800 viewers, WWE RAW on 10/21 did 169,800 viewers against the NHL Toronto Maple Leafs hockey game again, while AEW Dynamite was up to 150,700 against a MLB World Series game.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> TheMaskedAvenger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Game is still on but Houston is winning and this series feels like it will go to 7 games.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe or maybe not
Click to expand...

what happened of the game ? Lol 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> and who won actually ?
> ( no offense and off topic but how can baseball be this big in the us? Tries to watch the thing but my god is it long and freaking boring.)
> 
> Keep us informed of how the game is going tho
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I can’t stand watching it myself, for exactly the same reasons you can’t. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> I know the players are skilled — you can’t appreciate the athleticism involved from watching it on tv. But the games are so goddamn boring, I just can’t get into it.
Click to expand...

 oh then we are similar lmao <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />


----------



## rbl85

Guys you just have to write "MLB" on google and you'll have the results.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yup the chances of a game 7 are now very high, all Houston has to do in win game 6 at home


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

So, if it is 1-1 in the next 2 games it goes to the deciding 7th game - makes sense

.....

Who plays 7 games to decide a champion though - what weirdness is this game? 

Also.... “World series”.... c’mon now America


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> Yup the chances of a game 7 are now very high, *all Houston has to do in win game 6 at home*


i love that type of comment XD

Dude it's not that easy.

I mean if we follow your logic, all Houston or Washington has to do is win the next 2 games.


----------



## Taroostyles

What are you talking about? I said exactly what the situation is. 

I didn't say it was easy, I said all they have to do is win 1 game at home.


----------



## patpat

Game 6 is on wednesday. Lmao


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

patpat said:


> Game 6 is on wednesday. Lmao


Game 6 is on Tuesday for USA time mate

It is Wed in our timezone - but still doesn’t cross with AEW

Game 7 will cross (Thursday morning our time zone)


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Game 6 is on wednesday. Lmao
> 
> 
> 
> Game 6 is on Tuesday for USA time mate
> 
> It is Wed in our timezone - but still doesn’t cross with AEW
> 
> Game 7 will cross (Thursday morning our time zone)
Click to expand...

 so game 7 will in fact be played at the same time as aew dynamite right? 
RIP dynamite then:lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

patpat said:


> so game 7 will in fact be played at the same time as aew dynamite right?
> RIP dynamite then:lol


Yep - if game 7 is reality, it will start at 8 on Wednesday

R.I.P all other TV then


----------



## patpat

LifeInCattleClass said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> so game 7 will in fact be played at the same time as aew dynamite right?
> RIP dynamite then<img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Yep - if game 7 is reality, it will start at 8 on Wednesday
> 
> R.I.P all other TV then <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

 no hate to my baseball bros 
But again, how do you play 7 games to determine your champ in the finals? I read the rules but it's a mess :lol


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

patpat said:


> no hate to my baseball bros
> But again, how do you play 7 games to determine your champ in the finals? I read the rules but it's a mess :lol


A lot of sports do best-of-7 series in playoffs. Baseball, hockey, basketball, off the top of my head. Although baseball and basketball do best-of-5 in the early rounds.


----------



## patpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> no hate to my baseball bros
> But again, how do you play 7 games to determine your champ in the finals? I read the rules but it's a mess <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of sports do best-of-7 series in playoffs. Baseball, hockey, basketball, off the top of my head. Although baseball and basketball do best-of-5 in the early rounds.
Click to expand...

 I only watch soccer, tennis and mma so maybe that's why it seems odd to me lmao.
But yeah cool to know. It will be interesting to see how it affects the numbers tho. If there is no significant drop then they can dance around because these two weeks are the most bloodbath they are going to get in a long time.


----------



## rbl85

If Houston win the next game then there it's over.


----------



## Captain Yesterday

So far, the road team has won every game in the World Series. If that holds up, there will be a game 7. Come on Houston. Break this trend and just end it already.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

RubberbandGoat said:


> Either way AEW will beat SD this upcoming week so there’s that. Also, how did the replay do?


You were proven correct. AEW did beat Smackdown in both the demo and total viewers. :bow


----------



## AEWMoxley

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> You were proven correct. AEW did beat Smackdown in both the demo and total viewers. :bow


----------



## IamMark

The minor league beat the big league this week.


----------



## Balor fan

*AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Sorry not to post it ratings thread. But its a major news so couldn't help it. 

AEW rating this wednesday: 963,000 viewers

Smackdown: 888,000 viewers

AEW beat SD!!


----------



## AEWMoxley

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*


----------



## Prosper

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Smackdown did 888K bruh. Holy shit. FS1 or not, the fact that AEW beat the wrestling juggernaut in its 4th week is crazy. They even had legends and MMA stars!!

This thread should stay open just for that reason lol.


----------



## Ace

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

205 Live replacing Smackdown on TV confirmed 8*D


----------



## CMPunkRock316

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

:booklel :booklel


----------



## AEW_19

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Damage control in 3..2..1!


----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Balor fan said:


> Sorry not to post it ratings thread. But its a major news so couldn't help it.
> 
> AEW rating this wednesday: 963,000 viewers
> 
> Smackdown: 888,000 viewers
> 
> AEW beat SD!!


Not saying I don't believe you, but source please.


----------



## IamMark

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Dat minor league t-shirt company. lol


----------



## Balor fan

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



AlternateDemise said:


> Not saying I don't believe you, but source please.


https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/10/wwe-smackdown-draws-under-1-million-viewers-on-fs1-661384/


----------



## Erik.

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

That's a great achievement.

Is that the first time a non-WWE promotion has beaten a WWE show in ratings since 1999?


----------



## InexorableJourney

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

AEW winning the war one week at a time.


----------



## Prosper

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

"Its time for another Superstar shakeup!!!! The wild card rule is back in place dammit!! I'm a genius!!!" :vince5











:dana


----------



## Dolorian

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

WWE desperately chasing all the MMA marks is working incredibly well I see.


----------



## NascarStan

"AeW cAn OnLy BeAt WwE's DeVeLoPmEnTaL bRaNd"


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

MJF said:


> That's a great achievement.
> 
> Is that the first time a non-WWE promotion has beaten a WWE show in ratings since 1999?


would you not consider NXT a wwe show?

I mean this is bad. There’s no way around it.


----------



## Ace

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Meltzer made a great point on the Observer Live, AEW is doing good demo numbers for $500,000 a week.

SD has a weekly budget of 4m and is just beating them in the demo.

SD has 6 times AEW's budget and is just ahead. This serves well for AEW if they can continue to produce these numbers, if not improve on it.


----------



## IamMark

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Vince is calling CM Punk as we speak!


----------



## Ger

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Dolorian said:


> WWE desperately chasing all the MMA marks is working incredibly well I see.


I never thought, that was a good idea. Bringing one or two guys, fine, but the army of MMA-people in the men and women division is totally out of place.


----------



## Prosper

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



MikeRo said:


> Vince is calling CM Punk as we speak!


He's gonna try and offer Punk that Lesnar money (or even more) to be the face of SD on FOX lol. It's the only play he has. Punk would definitely turn this shit around. That or Vince giving up control.


----------



## DoctorWhosawhatsit

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

:lmao










Maybe this will get WWe to start caring.... yeah right :lol


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

How's that cain big money deal working out for you, Vince. :heston


----------



## Erik.

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



optikk sucks said:


> would you not consider NXT a wwe show?
> 
> I mean this is bad. There’s no way around it.


Maybe should have worded it as main show.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

USA execs doing back flips and bumps off their chairs right about now.


----------



## Stylebender

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

People saying fs1 is a small channel even though its in 72% of all households with a television. WWe are on the way down. Face it. Whether its aew or someone else, I am positive we see wwe dethroned in the 2020s.


----------



## Prosper

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

This thread/news will be more entertaining than the atrocity of a show that WWE will put out on RAW tonight.

AEW is about to take over the wrestling scene in 2020-2021. WWE still has the rest of its mainstream media money and investments to fall back on though. Blood money will also keep them afloat.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



CenaBoy4Life said:


> USA execs doing back flips and bumps off their chairs right about now.


and fox right now


----------



## Stylebender

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



prosperwithdeen said:


> "Its time for another Superstar shakeup!!!! The wild card rule is back in place dammit!! I'm a genius!!!" :vince5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :dana



"Starting a new era in wwe your neew general manager........ 
Bret hitman Hart" 

Next week ratings even lower lmao


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

guys


Marko Stunt outdrew Brock Lesnar :mj4

AEW need more muscly guys bro


fire marko stunt, he's tiny.


----------



## IamMark

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

Don't forget guys. It's a marathon. :bored


----------



## OwenSES

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

That's awesome for AEW. Not saying that Brock is solely responsible, but it must be clear to Vince that he does little for the ratings. Why does he keep giving Lesnar the title, so he can take it off of weekly TV?


----------



## Venocide

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

They had Hogan and Flair show up, and they still couldn't hit a million. Isn't FS1 in over 80 millions homes? 

:mj4:mj4:mj4


What a day, I'm rock hard right now.


----------



## Dolorian

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Ger said:


> I never thought, that was a good idea. Bringing one or two guys, fine, but the army of MMA-people in the men and women division is totally out of place.


It is not and it shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of their audience. If I wanted to watch MMA and it's stars I'd go and watch that. Same goes for boxing. I have no interest (and I am sure many share the sentiment) in seeing washed up MMA people come to wrestling and be treated like a big deal right out of the gate while the wrestlers that had been part of the rosters are shoved aside. Same goes for the "legends" why should I care about this Team Hogan vs Team Flair match? It does nothing for the people involved in it.

I don't care for Kofi nor was a fan of his reign but the manner in which they ended his reign just because they wanted to quickly setup Lesnar vs Cain was dumb and benefited no one. It actually hurt the product.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Anybody know what the Dynamite replay did on Friday opposite Slackdown? Just curious, and of course wondering if it had any impact on SD's numbers.


----------



## Psychosocial

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Ace said:


> Meltzer made a great point on the Observer Live, AEW is doing good demo numbers for $500,000 a week.
> 
> SD has a weekly budget of 4m and is just beating them in the demo.
> 
> SD has 6 times AEW's budget and is just ahead. This serves well for AEW if they can continue to produce these numbers, if not improve on it.


Where did you get those numbers?

Aren't the Khans richer than the McMahons? Why aren't they investing more weekly on their show to at least bridge the gap with SD's budget?


----------



## IamMark

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Anybody know what the Dynamite replay did on Friday opposite Slackdown? Just curious, and of course wondering if it had any impact on SD's numbers.


no numbers out for that but in my case I completely forgot about Smackdown and watched the AEW replay with extra footage.


----------



## Prosper

Serious question. People are tired of the Lesnar shit, so would Kofi as champion have drawn more than Lesnar given his loyal New Day fan base??

Kofi might have gotten them to an even 900K at least :bryanlol :ha :tysonlol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Psychosocial said:


> Where did you get those numbers?
> 
> Aren't the Khans richer than the McMahons? Why aren't they investing more weekly on their show to at least bridge the gap with SD's budget?


SD massive investment, they have done under a million.

Investment=/=Results


----------



## IamMark

When is this Marko Stunt's contract up dammit! - Vincent Kennedy McMahon :vince3


----------



## Psychosocial

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



optikk sucks said:


> SD massive investment, they have done under a million.
> 
> Investment=/=Results


Yes, but surely AEW would do even better if they invested as much as WWE does in SD?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Psychosocial said:


> Yes, but surely AEW would do even better if they invested as much as WWE does in SD?


i don't think investment yields better long term results. it might result in ok short term results. not long term.

look at tna impact. bringing in bischoff and hogan resulted in a very high couple of months for them. after that it died a slow and painful death.

why invest more when they are not only meeting targets, but beating them comfortably.


----------



## Master Bate

But But Smackdown had lots and lots of promos, how can this be?

:ha


----------



## Psychosocial

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



optikk sucks said:


> i don't think investment yields better long term results. it might result in ok short term results. not long term.
> 
> look at tna impact. bringing in bischoff and hogan resulted in a very high couple of months for them. after that it died a slow and painful death.
> 
> why invest more when they are not only meeting targets, but beating them comfortably.


Depends on what their goal is. If they want to beat the WWE brands and be the #1 wrestling program though, they're simply going to have to invest a lot more every week to do so.

They're doing well, no denying that, but beating SD 4 weeks in, regardless of the circumstances, shows that there is no limit as to how high their ceiling is. They have a real chance here with investment and a consistent product to potentially overtake the WWE brands in the future someday.


----------



## Ace

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Psychosocial said:


> Where did you get those numbers?
> 
> Aren't the Khans richer than the McMahons? Why aren't they investing more weekly on their show to at least bridge the gap with SD's budget?


 Networks are paying them that much per show from my understanding. It's their production costs.


----------



## WhyTooJay

The Wood said:


> Yes, because people criticizing AEW MUST love WWE, right? Can’t wait to get me some of that shit. Yum, yum.
> 
> You’re going to be happy when that’s all you’re stuck with, yeah?
> 
> The plus side is that we should get NXT and Vince relieving some control out of this. Ultimately, it might be good for wrestling, but not in the way a lot of people think it will be.


AEW beat Smackdown in the ratings this week.

Just thought I'd let you know. :smile2:


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

We're overthinking this. It's not about what you invest, star power, production any of that. That stuff can be a boost.

But if the writing fundamentally is awful, all you're doing is shining a turd.

At this point I think WWE audience has gotten so resentful and bored by the show they probably actively repulsed by stale faces like Brock Lesnar and dusty old bones full of green dust like Hogan and Flair. 

Bad writing and stale tactics are turning people off. AEW just have to stay consistent (or improve) on story quality and they'll continue to beat Smackdown and eventually RAW


----------



## Master Bate

It's only been 4 weeks lol

I mean the month isn't even over yet.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Psychosocial said:


> Where did you get those numbers?
> 
> Aren't the Khans richer than the McMahons? Why aren't they investing more weekly on their show to at least bridge the gap with SD's budget?


Thats what the networks are paying. USA pays AEW 500k a week and covers production and shares some ad revenue.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Stylebender said:


> People saying fs1 is a small channel even though its in 72% of all households with a television. WWe are on the way down. Face it. Whether its aew or someone else, I am positive we see wwe dethroned in the 2020s.


Hello, I am Mystic Lockard and I can read the future (thinks to my knowledge of the 23 Enigma), and I am predicting that WWE will lose to AEW in the Summer of 2024. Bank on it


----------



## TD Stinger

Well them beating SD makes me laugh because honestly WWE gets what they deserve for some of their booking decisions lately. Now is this gonna matter a week from now? Probably not, but it at least makes me laugh now. And the sad thing is, even if WWE's product is boring, all they have to do is not do stupid shit and they wouldn't alienate their audience. That's one way AEW can thrive, just don't do stupid shit.

Now about AEW beating them in the coming years and continuing to grow and beat Raw and SD is where I stop myself. I mean AEW opened with 1.4 million, and in a few weeks have lost what, about a 1/3 of their initial viewership? There's nothing there to convince me it's going to rise that much again or that WWE is going to fall that far to make the race close.

Honestly what I see happening is Raw and SD staying around their 2.2-2.5 million before they go down slightly again, AEW stagnates at about 900k-1 million, and NXT stagnating around 600k-700k viewers.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



prosperwithdeen said:


> Serious question. People are tired of the Lesnar shit, so would Kofi as champion have drawn more than Lesnar given his loyal New Day fan base??
> 
> Kofi might have gotten them to an even 900K at least :bryanlol :ha :tysonlol


Doubt it. #1, it doesn’t matter who’s carrying the strap; it’s the product as a whole that’s turning fans off. #2, between being on FS1 — which I believe is not available in as many homes as USA or TNT — and opposite the monster draw that is the world series, this rating means nothing. 

I know it’s cool and all, but people really ought not be gloating. Any week now Vince or triple-honker can pull something out if their ass, combined with NXT going to bigger arenas, and everything could turn around in the blink of an eye. 

And I’ll still say what I’ve been saying — this ratings competition is meaningless. Holding a good, solid number against everything else that’s on at 8:00 on Wednesdays means far more to TNT than beating any of WWE’s shows. It’s only the fans making a big deal about it. 



Psychosocial said:


> Yes, but surely AEW would do even better if they invested as much as WWE does in SD?


Forget for the moment that AEW is not TK’s only venture. And forget for the moment that they’ve already dumped a shit-ton of cash into it. What exactly do you want them to invest more in that they haven’t already?


----------



## Death Rider

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*

^Tell the Brock fans that who though Brock would change the ratings :hayden3



Dolorian said:


> It is not and it shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of their audience. If I wanted to watch MMA and it's stars I'd go and watch that. Same goes for boxing. I have no interest (and I am sure many share the sentiment) in seeing washed up MMA people come to wrestling and be treated like a big deal right out of the gate while the wrestlers that had been part of the rosters are shoved aside. Same goes for the "legends" why should I care about this Team Hogan vs Team Flair match? It does nothing for the people involved in it.
> 
> I don't care for Kofi nor was a fan of his reign but the manner in which they ended his reign just because they wanted to quickly setup Lesnar vs Cain was dumb and benefited no one. It actually hurt the product.


And this is why I am so fucking happy to see them failing. The way they ended the Kofi reign for the same old crap just to do their MMA wank feitsh. Get fucked Smackdown. Get fucked :heston. All the people claim Brock is a draw can piss off.


Obviously it will go back up next week but I am going to enjoy this moment.


----------



## Ger

Dolorian said:


> It is not and it shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of their audience. If I wanted to watch MMA and it's stars I'd go and watch that. Same goes for boxing. I have no interest (and I am sure many share the sentiment) in seeing washed up MMA people come to wrestling and be treated like a big deal right out of the gate while the wrestlers that had been part of the rosters are shoved aside.


I agree, but I also think that a few people could like it, to bring someone from this or that direction here and there. To bad, they make their own roster look like a joke all the time, when it happens.
But since like every second wrestler in the women division did MMA in past and the men SD title is repeating a MMA fight from the past .... too much!




Dolorian said:


> Same goes for the "legends" why should I care about this Team Hogan vs Team Flair match? It does nothing for the people involved in it.


No clue.
It is one more time the classic WWE fault. The regular active roster got to bring the old legends over, but it should be vice versa. So instead Roman Reigns tries to bring the new talent over or is doing something for himself, he stands there to help old Flair and Hogan.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Smackdown was lower than the first 4 episodes of AEW. roud

Go Astros. If the World Series goes to Game 7 then AEW and nxt are toast.


----------



## AEW_19

If you look after your audience, your audience will look after you. WWE have been getting away with shit shows for too long.


----------



## rbl85

The ratings for the AEW special did not appear on showbuzz because it's considered a replay and showbuzz does not give the ratings for the replay.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Psychosocial said:


> Depends on what their goal is. If they want to beat the WWE brands and be the #1 wrestling program though, they're simply going to have to invest a lot more every week to do so.


One more time — beating WWE and being the #1 wrestling show, whatever that means, IS NOT AEW’S OBJECTIVE. They want to be a viable alternative to what fans have had to settle for. They want to provide a product for fans that are sick of WWE. They know they are not going to take all of WWE’s fans away; they want the fans that WWE has already driven away.


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Btw TNT is in about 89M homes vs FS1 in 84M+ homes. Most US cable packages will have both (or neither). Accessibility wasn't the reason they lost. The switch to FS1 was heavily promoted by Fox, too. This is a huge win, this early.


----------



## TheLooseCanon




----------



## AlternateDemise

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



Balor fan said:


> https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/10/wwe-smackdown-draws-under-1-million-viewers-on-fs1-661384/


Alright, so it wasn't on Fox but it was on FS1. 

That's a huge difference and something that needs to be pointed out in the OP.


----------



## Death Rider

*Re: AEW beat Smackdown in ratings this week!!*



AlternateDemise said:


> Alright, so it wasn't on Fox but it was on FS1.
> 
> That's a huge difference and something that needs to be pointed out in the OP.


It being on FS1 should not have caused that big of a ratings drop. FS1 is on nearly as many channels as USA, was heavily advertised in the lead up according to americans, had Flair, Hogan, Brock etc. It should not have done a rating that low. Or maybe the myth about Brock being a draw can finally die


----------



## Chan Hung

AlternateDemise said:


> Balor fan said:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/10/wwe-smackdown-draws-under-1-million-viewers-on-fs1-661384/
> 
> 
> 
> Alright, so it wasn't on Fox but it was on FS1.
> 
> That's a huge difference and something that needs to be pointed out in the OP.
Click to expand...

It's a big deal, let's not try to bandaid this. Over 3.4 million less than 2 months ago to less than 900,000 today. U can't tell me that them not being able to cross least over 1 million from Fox to FS1 with the WWE machine was something minor
:maury


----------



## patpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> prosperwithdeen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Serious question. People are tired of the Lesnar shit, so would Kofi as champion have drawn more than Lesnar given his loyal New Day fan base??
> 
> Kofi might have gotten them to an even 900K at least <img src="http://i.imgur.com/1eUuCsD.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Bryan Lol" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/rmFv3sL.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Ha" class="inlineimg" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Lq0qPQd.gif" border="0" alt="" title="tysonlol" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> Doubt it. #1, it doesn’t matter who’s carrying the strap; it’s the product as a whole that’s turning fans off. #2, between being on FS1 — which I believe is not available in as many homes as USA or TNT — and opposite the monster draw that is the world series, this rating means nothing.
Click to expand...

 FS1 is in 85 millions homes and they got advertised to death on a lot of fox's other channels and per wrestlevote ( very reliable source ) based on their advertisement they were expecting smackdown on USA numbers 



> I know it’s cool and all, but people really ought not be gloating. Any week now Vince or triple-honker can pull something out if their ass, combined with NXT going to bigger arenas, and everything could turn around in the blink of an eye.


 moving nxt out of full sail mean a reschedule, changing the whole structure of the show and having to sell considerable arenas every week....that's not as easy. That's why when I see folks saying "well just get out of full sail" well if it was this easy to sell thousands and thousands of seats every week it wouldnt have taken 20 years to get another major alternative no? ?
And I might sound dumb, but fs1 or not I just saw brock lesnar hulk Hogan ric flair cain Velasquez fail to draw 1 million people on a channel available in 85 millions homes.
Maybe cm pumk?..



> And I’ll still say what I’ve been saying — this ratings competition is meaningless. Holding a good, solid number against everything else that’s on at 8:00 on Wednesdays means far more to TNT than beating any of WWE’s shows. It’s only the fans making a big deal about it.


 that I agree with you, to tell you the truth as long as I enjoy the show I dont give a fuck about ratings. I just want them to do good which is why I always take infos about baseball.

But I can see where some are coming from, particularly after certain wwe stars like rollins make comments about minor leagues, when their A show get beaten there will be banter.
Here is the thing, when omega went there and basically shit all over nxt, if they beat aew in the ratings he would be a dead man on internet, same case here.
For now aew is growing their demos in an encouraging way, they should focus on that solely and making their fans happy ?


----------



## The Wood

WhyTooJay said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because people criticizing AEW MUST love WWE, right? Can’t wait to get me some of that shit. Yum, yum.
> 
> You’re going to be happy when that’s all you’re stuck with, yeah?
> 
> The plus side is that we should get NXT and Vince relieving some control out of this. Ultimately, it might be good for wrestling, but not in the way a lot of people think it will be.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW beat Smackdown in the ratings this week.
> 
> Just thought I'd let you know. <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/WrestlingForum_2014RED/smilies/tango_face_smile.png" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

Lol, SmackDown doing AEW numbers is embarrassing, but that shocking number aside, let’s not pretend that it’s some huge knockout by AEW. Their numbers are dropping too. And if you want to have it one way, then you’ve got to have it another. Raw did more than double AEW’s viewership. 

The WWE definitely has its problems, and they NEED to address them to maintain that relationship with FOX. But let’s not pretend that this AEW beating WWE head-to-head because they’ve got the superior product. It’s a Wednesday/Friday battle and it’s also one in its regular slot against something that has been bumped, which does always have an effect, even if it shouldn’t be this huge. 



TD Stinger said:


> Well them beating SD makes me laugh because honestly WWE gets what they deserve for some of their booking decisions lately. Now is this gonna matter a week from now? Probably not, but it at least makes me laugh now. And the sad thing is, even if WWE's product is boring, all they have to do is not do stupid shit and they wouldn't alienate their audience. That's one way AEW can thrive, just don't do stupid shit.
> 
> Now about AEW beating them in the coming years and continuing to grow and beat Raw and SD is where I stop myself. I mean AEW opened with 1.4 million, and in a few weeks have lost what, about a 1/3 of their initial viewership? There's nothing there to convince me it's going to rise that much again or that WWE is going to fall that far to make the race close.
> 
> Honestly what I see happening is Raw and SD staying around their 2.2-2.5 million before they go down slightly again, AEW stagnates at about 900k-1 million, and NXT stagnating around 600k-700k viewers.


This is a very realistic take, except I think that NXT has the potential to increase its viewership by taking the kid gloves off. AEW might drop lower than that.


----------



## BigCy

The Wood said:


> Lol, SmackDown doing AEW numbers is embarrassing, but that shocking number aside, let’s not pretend that it’s some huge knockout by AEW. Their numbers are dropping too. And if you want to have it one way, then you’ve got to have it another. Raw did more than double AEW’s viewership.
> 
> The WWE definitely has its problems, and they NEED to address them to maintain that relationship with FOX. But let’s not pretend that this AEW beating WWE head-to-head because they’ve got the superior product. It’s a Wednesday/Friday battle and it’s also one in its regular slot against something that has been bumped, which does always have an effect, even if it shouldn’t be this huge.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a very realistic take, except I think that NXT has the potential to increase its viewership by taking the kid gloves off. AEW might drop lower than that.


Welcome back. When I first read the OP I thought they beat them on Fox and I'm like wth? Then it appears it's on FS1 so basically makes it a one off. I'm not going to lie though I hope they do end up beating WWE more just because I'm not a fan of the E or their culture. Even though I'm not the biggest AEW fan I'm glad they did achieve this even though it's a cheap win for now. Smackdown will definitely be in trouble if they start getting these numbers on Fox each week. Raw numbers will probably slowly go down as well imo.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

That Smackdown rating was an abomination, let's not twist it, but let's actually assess what it means. What it means is that WWE fans are just habitual watchers, they don't HAVE to watch Smackdown, because if they did, more people would've found the channel, it's not THAT fuck hard, will there be a dip? Sure, but it shouldn't have been to this extent. It's just at the point of the TINIEST little hassle to watch the show, and they are out, because they don't care THAT MUCH about the show, it's just habitual and conditioned watching.


----------



## The Wood

Thanks, BigCy!

I’m enjoying the schadenfreude of WWE’s low rating. More so because it is low than because AEW is high. I mean, NXT almost beat SmackDown too. 

It hopefully wakes something up in them. 



The Inbred Goatman said:


> That Smackdown rating was an abomination, let's not twist it, but let's actually assess what it means. What it means is that WWE fans are just habitual watchers, they don't HAVE to watch Smackdown, because if they did, more people would've found the channel, it's not THAT fuck hard, will there be a dip? Sure, but it shouldn't have been to this extent. It's just at the point of the TINIEST little hassle to watch the show, and they are out, because they don't care THAT MUCH about the show, it's just habitual and conditioned watching.


This is a pretty spot-on take, I think. The number is absolutely shockingly low. WWE probably doesn’t want people realizing their programming is not a priority right now.


----------



## Death Rider

The Inbred Goatman said:


> That Smackdown rating was an abomination, let's not twist it, but let's actually assess what it means. What it means is that WWE fans are just habitual watchers, they don't HAVE to watch Smackdown, because if they did, more people would've found the channel, it's not THAT fuck hard, will there be a dip? Sure, but it shouldn't have been to this extent. It's just at the point of the TINIEST little hassle to watch the show, and they are out, because they don't care THAT MUCH about the show, it's just habitual and conditioned watching.


Exactly. Everyone expected a drop but that much? Yeah it moving channel is not the only factor. Maybe it didn't have enough promos :heston


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Death Rider said:


> The Inbred Goatman said:
> 
> 
> 
> That Smackdown rating was an abomination, let's not twist it, but let's actually assess what it means. What it means is that WWE fans are just habitual watchers, they don't HAVE to watch Smackdown, because if they did, more people would've found the channel, it's not THAT fuck hard, will there be a dip? Sure, but it shouldn't have been to this extent. It's just at the point of the TINIEST little hassle to watch the show, and they are out, because they don't care THAT MUCH about the show, it's just habitual and conditioned watching.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Everyone expected a drop but that much? Yeah it moving channel is not the only factor. Maybe it didn't have enough promos <img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2XjBg7.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Heston" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

There were not enough big muscly guys on that show


----------



## looper007

optikk sucks said:


> There were not enough big muscly guys on that show


Wasn't Hogan and Flair on that Smackdown, shit even the legends can't do it for you. you are in trouble. If you go back to that well to often it's going to mean nothing. Not enough baby oil on those big muscles that's why the ratings tank lol.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

looper007 said:


> optikk sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were not enough big muscly guys on that show
> 
> 
> 
> Wasn't Hogan and Flair on that Smackdown, shit even the legends can't do it for you. you are in trouble. If you go back to that well to often it's going to mean nothing. Not enough baby oil on those big muscles that's why the ratings tank lol.
Click to expand...

maybe if AEW signed Lesnar and fired all these midget circus acts, they might reach 888k viewers


----------



## Aedubya

So can someone please summarise the past 7 pages please?

Did AEW legitimately beat Smackdown on TV ratings?


----------



## Chan Hung

Aedubya said:


> So can someone please summarise the past 7 pages please?
> 
> Did AEW legitimately beat Smackdown on TV ratings?


For last week yes.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Aedubya said:


> So can someone please summarise the past 7 pages please?
> 
> Did AEW legitimately beat Smackdown on TV ratings?


Yes Wednesday's show beat them in viewership and demo's. But SD was shown on FS1 which is different to the usual channel. Some fans argue that the drop in viewers was a result of this move and that it wasn't promoted enough etc, but other fans argue that FS1's reach is similar to TNT's and that the drop should not have been so significant for a WWE show. 

Dynamite was replayed at the same time as SD and I think this ate into some of SD's viewers. Paybacks a bitch isn't it?


----------



## Matthew Castillo

optikk sucks said:


> maybe if AEW signed Lesnar and fired all these midget circus acts, they might reach 888k viewers


I didn't know you thought Brock Lesnar was ratings poison because they'd need to lose at least another 80 thousand viewers to hit 888K



Claro De Luna said:


> Yes Wednesday's show beat them in viewership and demo's. But SD was shown on FS1 which is different to the usual channel. Some fans argue that the drop in viewers was a result of this move and that it wasn't promoted enough etc, but other fans argue that FS1's reach is similar to TNT's and that the drop should not have been so significant for a WWE show.
> 
> Dynamite was replayed at the same time as SD and I think this ate into some of SD's viewers. Paybacks a bitch isn't it?


It should be noted that other shows bumped off Fox and on to FS1 generally lose between a third and half their viewers as compared to when they were on fox, Smackdown on the other hand lost nearly 2/3s of their viewers.


----------



## Aedubya

Interesting, thanks


----------



## Bennu

I admit, I knew WWE was going through a rough time but I didn't think it was this bad. Some may see this as a victory for AEW but I see it as a sign of how bad of a shape the US Professional Wrestling scene is in.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Matthew Castillo said:


> optikk sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe if AEW signed Lesnar and fired all these midget circus acts, they might reach 888k viewers
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't know you thought Brock Lesnar was ratings poison because they'd need to lose at least another 80 thousand viewers to hit 888k.
Click to expand...

i don’t. I thought you would recognise the sarcasm as a lot of these trolls ask for big men in AEW. 

Legit nothing draws these days except for good material. Doesn’t matter if you’re big or small. But a lot of people in this sxn thinn big guys = better.


----------



## TripleG

I wouldn't call the Smackdown rating a win for AEW. It is more a loss for WWE and a sign of how bad it has gotten.


----------



## The Wood

Aedubya said:


> So can someone please summarise the past 7 pages please?
> 
> Did AEW legitimately beat Smackdown on TV ratings?


Their Wednesday show on their regular channel had a slightly higher viewership than an atrocious Friday SmackDown rating on a different channel. 

AEW didn’t beat SmackDown head-to-head, and the difference between 888k and 900k viewers or whatever AEW is alleged to get is fairly insignificant when you consider how ratings are counted. It’s possible that more people actually watched SmackDown and just included a few less people with boxes. 

WWE are in trouble, no doubt. But they fell to an AEW level; AEW didn’t rise to a WWE level. 



Bennu said:


> I admit, I knew WWE was going through a rough time but I didn't think it was this bad. Some may see this as a victory for AEW but I see it as a sign of how bad of a shape the US Professional Wrestling scene is in.


Yep, it’s really bad. Less than 1 million people watching wrestling is going to affect how much bargaining power anyone in the industry is going to have down the line. One of the big appeals of wrestling, if you can say it has big appeal, is that it’s supposed to come with a built-in audience. 



TripleG said:


> I wouldn't call the Smackdown rating a win for AEW. It is more a loss for WWE and a sign of how bad it has gotten.


Absolutely. I do wonder if the bottom is dropping out. A lot of people have expected steady declines, but there are some terrifying numbers lately.

The shows aren’t doing well in Canada. I think Raw recently got 3,000 viewers in the UK (!). I thought of this week’s number as an anomaly, but what if it isn’t? What if people have just hit their breaking point with wrestling?


----------



## rbl85

The big problem is that now the majority of fans who watch the WWE do it more by habit than they do it because they like the show.


----------



## Dave Santos

If Washington wins today in baseball, both NXt and AEW will have to go up against a game 7 of the world series.


----------



## TripleG

Dave Santos said:


> If Washington wins today in baseball, both NXt and AEW will have to go up against a game 7 of the world series.


The way the Nats have played these last three games, I don't think there will be a Game 7.


----------



## wrestlingfann

How have the ticket sales been? Seems like the show tomorrow in Charleston and Charlotte next week still have a lot of seats available.


----------



## rbl85

wrestlingfann said:


> How have the ticket sales been? Seems like the show tomorrow in Charleston and Charlotte next week still have a lot of seats available.


Impossible to know how the show in Charleston is doing because we don't have an interactive map on ticketmaster


----------



## AlternateDemise

Chan Hung said:


> It's a big deal, let's not try to bandaid this. Over 3.4 million less than 2 months ago to less than 900,000 today. U can't tell me that them not being able to cross least over 1 million from Fox to FS1 with the WWE machine was something minor
> :maury


Never said it wasn't a big deal. But it's an important fact that needs to be pointed out here for people who are too lazy to actually look into it.


----------



## TheDraw

TripleG said:


> I wouldn't call the Smackdown rating a win for AEW. It is more a loss for WWE and a sign of how bad it has gotten.


This


wwe is a complete shit show. I know so many people tuning out.


----------



## rbl85

It might be a bit late but this is the AEW ratings thread, if we want to talk about the ratings of Smackdown then it might be better to do it on the rating thread of smackdown.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Two innings to go and Washington is winning. So if the score holds then there will be a game 7. Just FYI this WS will have an average of 12 mil watching and is on par to be the lowest rated WS ever because the two teams aren't as popular.


----------



## rbl85

There going to be a game 7.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Game over Washington win. Game 7 confirmed.


----------



## kuja killer

damn that sucks. I personally am "not" a sports fan whatsoever. Dont care about football, baseball, basketball, any of tha stuff. No thanks

but... i do support AEW, and i cant wait to see moxely get to talk in a segment thing or whatever...
not that my +1 view is going to make any difference for rating.


----------



## IronMan8

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



Daggdag said:


> Russo knows nothing about wrestling, or running a tv show. So his opinions are worthless. WCW ratings tanked the moment he was out in charge for a reason.


You might hate him, but you have to admit the guy has a golden touch when it comes to ratings.

Nevertheless, society in general has become quite disrespectful towards most older and more experienced people in the industry. In the past, people would stop and show respect and try to learn from anyone who has succeeded in the past. 

Even if Cody disagreed with 90% of Russo’s advice, he might pick up that one little idea that he can implement successfully in his own way. There’s literally nothing to lose to paying respect and doing due diligence with someone who has undisputedly achieved legendary things in this industry.

It’s like saying Dusty Rhodes sucked because his in-ring style sucked by today’s tastes and therefore we can’t learn anything from him on any aspect of pro wrestling.

Btw, Russo was head writer for the WWE’s best ratings of all-time, TNA’s best ratings of all-time, WCW ratings went up when he was writing, and Vince McMahon re-hired him as the head writer (above Heyman et al.) in 2002 post-WCW. 

Are you saying there’s nothing Cody can learn from someone who has been in those positions?

-


----------



## headstar

> Russo knows nothing about wrestling, or running a tv show. So his opinions are worthless. WCW ratings tanked the moment he was out in charge for a reason.


That's revisionist history.

So far Russo hasn't been wrong. He's right about AEW's Indy style wrestling not drawing ratings. AEW are losing overall viewers every week. He said months ago that Bischoff wouldn't last in WWE and was proven right. I remember all the marks thinking Bischoff would bring in a new "boom" period for SmackDown! :lmao


----------



## rbl85

I wonder why so many people watch baseball, i tried ti watch lats night game and man that shit was boring.....zero emotion, the supporters are doing nothing....


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> The big problem is that now the majority of fans who watch the WWE do it more by habit than they do it because they like the show.


I think it's a habit for some, they've stuck by it since they were kids and some just can't let it go. For me WWE lost it's way, I think around the time Cena came to the top, and I like Cena but the product from that time on just wasn't the same for me. It just lost that something. They've had some good moments here and there (Bryan 13/14 run, Summer of Punk) but I just not a massive mark for WWE anymore, I don't think it helps that they just seem to hate their fanbase in the last few years and shown no respect to them.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



IronMan8 said:


> You might hate him, but you have to admit the guy has a golden touch when it comes to ratings.
> 
> Nevertheless, society in general has become quite disrespectful towards most older and more experienced people in the industry. In the past, people would stop and show respect and try to learn from anyone who has succeeded in the past.
> 
> Even if Cody disagreed with 90% of Russo’s advice, he might pick up that one little idea that he can implement successfully in his own way. There’s literally nothing to lose to paying respect and doing due diligence with someone who has undisputedly achieved legendary things in this industry.
> 
> It’s like saying Dusty Rhodes sucked because his in-ring style sucked by today’s tastes and therefore we can’t learn anything from him on any aspect of pro wrestling.
> 
> Btw, Russo was head writer for the WWE’s best ratings of all-time, TNA’s best ratings of all-time, WCW ratings went up when he was writing, and Vince McMahon re-hired him as the head writer (above Heyman et al.) in 2002 post-WCW.
> 
> Are you saying there’s nothing Cody can learn from someone who has been in those positions?
> 
> -


Russo would have the ratings up to 1.2 million in a month. People hate on him but he flat out produces everywhere he goes.


----------



## Daggdag

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



IronMan8 said:


> You might hate him, but you have to admit the guy has a golden touch when it comes to ratings.
> 
> Nevertheless, society in general has become quite disrespectful towards most older and more experienced people in the industry. In the past, people would stop and show respect and try to learn from anyone who has succeeded in the past.
> 
> Even if Cody disagreed with 90% of Russo’s advice, he might pick up that one little idea that he can implement successfully in his own way. There’s literally nothing to lose to paying respect and doing due diligence with someone who has undisputedly achieved legendary things in this industry.
> 
> It’s like saying Dusty Rhodes sucked because his in-ring style sucked by today’s tastes and therefore we can’t learn anything from him on any aspect of pro wrestling.
> 
> Btw, Russo was head writer for the WWE’s best ratings of all-time, TNA’s best ratings of all-time, WCW ratings went up when he was writing, and Vince McMahon re-hired him as the head writer (above Heyman et al.) in 2002 post-WCW.
> 
> Are you saying there’s nothing Cody can learn from someone who has been in those positions?
> 
> -


WCW's worst ratings were while he was the sole decision maker on their creative. Before then, when Bischoff and others had a lot of say, before they left, ratings were generally ok. But the moment Russo became the main creative lead, WCW became a joke. He never put any really effort into booking matches and storylines effectively.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Re: A Misunderstanding of Russo’s Ratings Criticism*



TKO Wrestling said:


> Russo would have the ratings up to 1.2 million in a month. People hate on him but he flat out produces everywhere he goes.


He killed a promotion in two years. Sit down.


----------



## kingfrass44

headstar said:


> That's revisionist history.
> 
> So far Russo hasn't been wrong. He's right about AEW's Indy style wrestling not drawing ratings. AEW are losing overall viewers every week. He said months ago that Bischoff wouldn't last in WWE and was proven right. I remember all the marks thinking Bischoff would bring in a new "boom" period for SmackDown! :lmao


It doesn't matter what Russo says
TNT happy this is important


----------



## shandcraig

Anyone thinking eric would last in a brain dead company like wwe doesnt have a clue about the bigger picture of whats happening with that company. Has nothing to do with eric ability but rather the fact hes not a yes man. People are delusinal if they think paul heyman is going to make a difference. Hes simply mot allowed to. Its still the same brand its been for 10 years .


Sorry off topic but was refering to peoplea comments on the obvious bullshit like Russo said just like the smae obvious bullshit dave says


----------



## Dave Santos

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Two innings to go and Washington is winning. So if the score holds then there will be a game 7. Just FYI this WS will have an average of 12 mil watching and is on par to be the lowest rated WS ever because the two teams aren't as popular.





rbl85 said:


> I wonder why so many people watch baseball, i tried ti watch lats night game and man that shit was boring.....zero emotion, the supporters are doing nothing....


Ratings came in. 15.5 million viewers. Today will probably be close to 20 million since its a game 7 of a finals and people know that's the end. Aew will certainly take a hit.


----------



## rbl85

Dave Santos said:


> Ratings came in. 15.5 million viewers. Today will probably be close to 20 million since its a game 7 of a finals and people know that's the end. Aew will certainly take a hit.


Every show is going to take a hit.

That's why TNT is putting the replay of AEW directly after the show.


----------



## Dave Santos

rbl85 said:


> Every show is going to take a hit.
> 
> That's why TNT is putting the replay of AEW directly after the show.


Isnt the world series 3-3.5 hours? That would mean the replay would be affected as well.


----------



## Claro De Luna

*Attendance tonight*

Many on here seem to think that attendance was low but I could not see it apart from on the camera side. The arena looked packed and red hot. So how many did attend and how many were they short of a sell out?


----------



## Best Bout Machine

*Re: Attendance tonight*

There were completely empty sections in the rafters and you could see some empty floor seats on the hard cam side at one point. I don't care as long as the crowd is hot, which it was.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: Attendance tonight*



Claro De Luna said:


> Many on here seem to think that attendance was low but I could not see it apart from on the camera side. The arena looked packed and red hot. So how many did attend and how many were they short of a sell out?


I think you can talk about that in a already existing thread


----------



## Darkest Lariat

*Re: Attendance tonight*

It's West Virginia. They're lucky anyone could afford tickets.


----------



## looper007

*Re: Attendance tonight*

I thought the crowd were great tonight, at least it wasn't silent which is a blessing. i thought it was going to be a lot worse but the crowd really did a great job and got a great show for it. 

I think the few empty seats on the hard camera side were kids getting up and running down the front. They were filled at points through out the show. I don't know behind the camera though.


----------



## Buffy The Vampire Slayer

*Re: Attendance tonight*

Considering where they were tonight, I kind of expecting this but the crowd was more alive than what I seen from NXT.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: Attendance tonight*

To be expected as AEW figures out where demand really is. Hopefully they continue to pack arenas in areas that they know are gonna be receptive.

Personally I think it wouldn't hurt them to do a smaller venue here and there just so it doesn't seem like a massive issue if they really have to make that transition at some point


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: Attendance tonight*

That was 6k easily? Maybe more

Good crowd IMO


----------



## TAC41

*Re: Attendance tonight*

Attendance has been low for every show since the premiere. Where have you been?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hangman

*Re: Attendance tonight*

Many things can factor into this.

Location, promoting before event, star power. 

If they keep putting out the enjoyable product they have now and cut out the goofy shit, attendance in future will pick up.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: Attendance tonight*



Hangman said:


> Many things can factor into this.
> 
> Location, promoting before event, star power.
> 
> If they keep putting out the enjoyable product they have now and cut out the goofy shit, attendance in future will pick up.


Honestly it's gotten to the point where I don't think anyone really enjoys Orange Cassidy and Marko Stunt SO MUCH to the point that it's worth sacrificing a consistent show with a coherent thematic framework. And that's what AEW is missing right now. A cohorent thematic framework. Are they real sports or are they WWE style variety show mess. Pick a side


----------



## rbl85

*Re: Attendance tonight*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> That was 6k easily? Maybe more
> 
> Good crowd IMO


There was +/- 10K seats 

And there was more or less 8K people.


----------



## shandcraig

*Re: Attendance tonight*



TAC41 said:


> Attendance has been low for every show since the premiere. Where have you been?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would not be refering to them as low,They are still selling more than enough tickets and doing well.Its still a success. WCW as a established company was not even getting these numbers in 1995 before the big angle.


So for a brand new company they have done well when you have all these other promotions around for years that cant come close to those numbers


----------



## rbl85

*Re: Attendance tonight*



shandcraig said:


> I would not be refering to them as low,They are still selling more than enough tickets and doing well.Its still a success. WCW as a established company was not even getting these numbers in 1995 before the big angle.
> 
> 
> So for a brand new company they have done well when you have all these other promotions around for years that cant come close to those numbers


Don't pay attention to him, he shit on eveything that AEW does.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: Attendance tonight*



rbl85 said:


> There was +/- 10K seats
> 
> And there was more or less 8K people.


Just saw on twitter there was a massive traffic issue leading into the show

A lot of people missed the first Q basically - so, was deffo fuller than what i thought

8k is massive number for a “small town” show

Good on em’


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: Attendance tonight*



shandcraig said:


> I would not be refering to them as low,They are still selling more than enough tickets and doing well.Its still a success. WCW as a established company was not even getting these numbers in 1995 before the big angle.
> 
> 
> So for a brand new company they have done well when you have all these other promotions around for years that cant come close to those numbers


Listened to 83 weeks yesterday, where Conrad and Eric were talking about the HEIGHT of WCW, and they were selling 7k seats - and that was amazing

So.... AEW is juuuust fine

EDIT: are we all ready for the horrible AIDS that is coming today with the ratings? This thread is SURE to be flooded again


----------



## shandcraig

LifeInCattleClass said:


> shandcraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would not be refering to them as low,They are still selling more than enough tickets and doing well.Its still a success. WCW as a established company was not even getting these numbers in 1995 before the big angle.
> 
> 
> So for a brand new company they have done well when you have all these other promotions around for years that cant come close to those numbers
> 
> 
> 
> Listened to 83 weeks yesterday, where Conrad and Eric were talking about the HEIGHT of WCW, and they were selling 7k seats - and that was amazing
> 
> So.... AEW is juuuust fine
> 
> EDIT: are we all ready for the horrible AIDS that is coming today with the ratings? This thread is SURE to be flooded again <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Big Grin" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...


The level was much higher than 8 at its peak but a long term established wcw was selling less than 8 before those days. So ya they are doing well.

I csnt stress enough how long term a company that sells tickets is more important than a company that has higher ratings. Look at tna for an example, they couldnt sell tickets for years and yet had high ratings but a wrestling company is a seat selling business first


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

shandcraig said:


> The level was much higher than 8 at its peak but a long term established wcw was selling less than 8 before those days. So ya they are doing well.
> 
> I csnt stress enough how long term a company that sells tickets is more important than a company that has higher ratings. Look at tna for an example, they couldnt sell tickets for years and yet had high ratings but a wrestling company is a seat selling business first


Eric said on the Podcast Monday - and this was during the Hogan, NWO run

That PPVs did 10k - 12k and normal shows did 7k

So, that was at the peak (monday's show)

They Obvs did a million+ in PPV buys and their TV ratings were massive - but in attendance, AEW = WCW


----------



## TAC41

I think it’s really fitting all the recent AEW comparisons are to WCW because it proves two things. 

1. AEW fans have realized they can no longer compare it to WWE so they’ve downgraded. 
2. They’ve come to terms with the fact that AEW will go out of business as WCW did. 

I’m predicting another 50-100k viewership drop. How about you guys?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

The worldseries did 21M


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> The worldseries did 21M


GEEEEZZZZZZ

R.I.P the rest of television I suppose

You recon they manipulate it to go to game 7, seeing as it does these ratings?


----------



## llj

The ratings are ugly for both AEW and NXT


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> The ratings are ugly for both AEW and NXT


We don't know yet (still +/- an hour for the results) but yes it's going to sting XD


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> The worldseries did 21M


I'm assuming you are American, what's the biggest sporting event in America for ratings is it World Series, NBA Final or Superbowl.

I know over here for Football (soccer) it be the Champions League final or World Cup final. no way in hell anything would compete for them in ratings.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> We don't know yet (still +/- an hour for the results) but yes it's going to sting XD


I've already seen it. They're bad. Someone else can post them.

edit: Oh what the hell:

AEW: 759,000
NXT: 580,000


----------



## AEWMoxley

looper007 said:


> I'm assuming you are American, what's the biggest sporting event in America for ratings is it World Series, NBA Final or Superbowl.
> 
> I know over here for Football (soccer) it be the Champions League final or World Cup final. no way in hell anything would compete for them in ratings.


Super Bowl gets over 110 million viewers.


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> GEEEEZZZZZZ
> 
> R.I.P the rest of television I suppose
> 
> You recon they manipulate it to go to game 7, seeing as it does these ratings?


No.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

760K for AEW, 590K for NXT, YIKES.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Inbred Goatman said:


> 760K for AEW, 590K for NXT, YIKES.


Mega yikes - that is very bad’

Oh well


----------



## Death Rider

Not good but considering the world series a drop was expected. Still not good though.



Clearly too many promos :troll


----------



## rbl85

looper007 said:


> I'm assuming you are American, what's the biggest sporting event in America for ratings is it World Series, NBA Final or Superbowl.
> 
> I know over here for Football (soccer) it be the Champions League final or World Cup final. no way in hell anything would compete for them in ratings.


No i'm french XD


----------



## looper007

The Inbred Goatman said:


> 760K for AEW, 590K for NXT, YIKES.


Was to be expected. But wait for the nitpickers and Anti AEW lot to jump all over them.


----------



## llj

Yeah, this week should be a write off a bit because of the World Series Game 7 which did monster numbers last night.


----------



## AEWMoxley

LOL! That's fucking garbage.

They are paying the price for not using last night's format on the debut. They would have retained way more viewers.

Their best episode to date was seen by half of the debut audience.

All the work rate marks need to concede defeat already.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> just as an aside - did you guys hear AEW is now being broadcast in Germany?

On TNT on a friday there i think



AEWMoxley said:


> LOL! That's fucking garbage.
> 
> They are paying the price for not using last night's format on the debut. They would have retained way more viewers.
> 
> Their best episode to date was seen by half of the debut audience.
> 
> All the work rate marks need to concede defeat already.


Nah, it dropped because they let Mox cut a promo


----------



## Alright_Mate

Not surprising with last nights competition.

Next few weeks will be more important.


----------



## Jedah

A drop was expected, but that's a more than I would have liked. It went against game 7 of the World Series though, so it was big competition on the night.

The real story will be next week. There should be a rebound because the World Series is over and it'll be the go home to Full Gear. If they can get into striking distance of a million it'll be a solid number.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Not unexpected. There will be a real problem if neither show increases next week sans World Series opposition.


----------



## Chan Hung

Wow those ratings were shit fpalm.....let's hope they pick up next week


----------



## looper007

Jedah said:


> A drop was expected, but that's a more than I would have liked. It went against game 7 of the World Series though, so it was big competition on the night.
> 
> The real story will be next week. There should be a rebound because the World Series is over and it'll be the go home to Full Gear. If they can get into striking distance of a million it'll be a solid number.


Come on that's good rating as everyone was expecting worse. No one can complain about that rating for either company, if it happens next week then nitpick but not this week.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I believe Meltzer said anything under 850K was worrisome, so this is definitely bad.

As much as I love Hikaru Shida too, it's a fucking mistake with these matches like Shida's and the Baker/Hayter match getting so much time.


----------



## llj

looper007 said:


> Come on that's good rating as everyone was expecting worse. No one can complain about that rating for either company, if it happens next week then nitpick but not this week.


It's a little worse than I expected, not as bad as last week's Smackdown, but still worse than I hoped.


----------



## birthday_massacre

LifeInCattleClass said:


> GEEEEZZZZZZ
> 
> R.I.P the rest of television I suppose
> 
> You recon they manipulate it to go to game 7, seeing as it does these ratings?


Of course they did, did you see that BS call at first base in game 6 that extended teh series lol



The Inbred Goatman said:


> 760K for AEW, 590K for NXT, YIKES.


AEW still crushing NXT, that is all that matters. 

Also that AEW rating is close to what SD did on FS1


----------



## Ace

llj said:


> I've already seen it. They're bad. Someone else can post them.
> 
> edit: Oh what the hell:
> 
> AEW: 759,000
> NXT: 580,000


Not bad, I expected worse with that massive world series number.


----------



## MrThortan

I love AEW and have watched every show, except this one. I don't even like baseball and I watched game 7. It was a hell of a game. Hopefully next week will get some viewers back


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Brutal. Hopefully it jumps back up next week without the competition.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

I know AEW and NXT got hit hard but NBA got absolutely murdered by the World Series.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Chan Hung said:


> Wow those ratings were shit fpalm.....let's hope they pick up next week


They should be able to recuperate the viewers they've lost if they continue to do what they did last night. The problem is that the damage has been done by the 4 weeks of nothing but matches, and as a result, a large portion of viewers missed their only entertaining episode.

The World Series obviously had a big impact, but still, it shouldn't have dropped this low. This is atrocious.

Hopefully they've learned a lesson and realized that focusing on workrate for 4 consecutive weeks was a big mistake.


----------



## looper007

Post-Modern Devil said:


> I know AEW and NXT got hit hard but NBA got absolutely murdered by the World Series.


I think some of the fan's saying it got murdered, clearly are not from the States. World Series is one of the biggest sports event probably the biggest around. Acting like AEW and NXT went up agaisnt Big Brother or some shitty reality show.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Don't know why baseball is so popular. Such a boring sport. Daft calling it a world series when it's an all American competition.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Here you go










Key demo week on week

Male - 0.44 vs 0.62 (As expected)
Female - 0.28 vs 0.19 (murdered - husbands hogging the tv?)

For comparison - American Horror story

Key demo

Male: 0.58 v 0.46
Female: 0.64 v 0.44
Overall: 1,350 v 1,053

So, drops trend seem consistent on the night

‘Play on’


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW finished sixth in the demo while nxt was #32. And the beat goes on. 5-5. :mark

Nxt did win the codger demo again though:vince$


----------



## Reil

looper007 said:


> I think some of the fan's saying it got murdered, clearly are not from the States. World Series is one of the biggest sports event probably the biggest around. Acting like AEW and NXT went up agaisnt Big Brother or some shitty reality show.


It's not the biggest event around. The biggest in America is easily the Super Bowl. It popped 103.5m viewers earlier this year.

I think both AEW and NXT will bounce back next week though. Although AEW has _(very slightly)_ more to worry about considering NBA is ongoing right now, and the NBA demographics skew much younger than baseball does.


----------



## AEW_19

Oh well

Fuck it. On to next week.


----------



## looper007

Reil said:


> It's not the biggest event around. The biggest in America is easily the Super Bowl. It popped 103.5m viewers earlier this year.
> 
> I think both AEW and NXT will bounce back next week though.


Shit, that is crazy. But the Champions League Final and World Cup Final top that, but still NXT and AEW were always going to take a hit and people acting like it's just a normal week and nothing big happened. If it happens next week people can complain, but not this week.


----------



## Zappers

So here we are, 5 weeks later(7 for NXT). Both shows, AEW & NXT lost roughly half their viewing audience since their respected debuts.

The winner goes to the show who's overhead is less.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

That's a horrendous number no matter which way you slice it. Holy fuck.

:trips8


----------



## Jedah

AEW held up against the world series well last week. The fact that this was game 7 was really the clincher.


----------



## looper007

Showstopper said:


> That's a horrendous number no matter which way you slice it. Holy fuck.
> 
> :trips8


How is it? it's going up agaisnt a top sports event.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

looper007 said:


> How is it? it's going up agaisnt a top sports event.


MLB is the third most popular sport in America, ions behind the NFL and NBA. This was also the lowest rated World Series in like 5 years or something.

A drop was to be expected. But not this much of a drop.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

looper007 said:


> I think some of the fan's saying it got murdered, clearly are not from the States. World Series is one of the biggest sports event probably the biggest around. Acting like AEW and NXT went up agaisnt Big Brother or some shitty reality show.


Yeah. The NBA of all things took a _*50%*_ hit in terms of both overall viewership and the demo this week. That should put into perspective how badly game 7 impacted TV as a whole, not just wrestling


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Compare NBA regular season game - 7:43 game

Week v Week

Overall: 0.76 v 0.38
Male: 1.20 v 0.54
Female: 0.33 v 0.23
Millions: 1,698 v 947

Yeah.... in comparison AEW did not do so bad


----------



## looper007

Showstopper said:


> MLB is the third most popular sport in America, ions behind the NFL and NBA. This was also the lowest rated World Series in like 5 years or something.
> 
> A drop was to be expected. But not this much of a drop.


Still a lot of shows took hits, and this week is a free pass come back next week and we discuss it if it's a bad thing or good thing, if the ratings stay the same.


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

looper007 said:


> Still a lot of shows took hits, and this week is a free pass come back next week and we discuss it if it's a bad thing or good thing, if the ratings stay the same.


Nah, they'll definitely get an increase next week. Doesn't change that this week's number was a gigantic drop.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ha ha here we go. People writing them off again. So predictable! WWE is the one that should be worried. Look at their numbers lol you guys are so impulsive. Yeah they’ll really cancel AEW. They’re still doing above TNT’s predictions. Calm down. They’ll bounce back. Sheesh


----------



## ClintDagger

Have to put an asterisk besides this one just like last week’s SD. If they rebound to 1MM+ next week this one means nothing.


----------



## The XL 2

Yikes. Wrestling is dead in America. It had a good run


----------



## looper007

Showstopper said:


> Nah, they'll definitely get an increase next week. Doesn't change that this week's number was a gigantic drop.


You are looking for a bite, I know you Showstopper . Plus when have you being interested in AEW, first time I've seen you here.


----------



## rbl85

The audience of AEW is in majority the young adults.

So of course they're going to loose a lot of viewers against a game 7 of the World series.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> AEW finished sixth in the demo while nxt was #32. And the beat goes on. 5-5. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/GkHkVKq.gif?1" border="0" alt="" title="marking out" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Nxt did win the codger demo again though<img src="http://i.imgur.com/47tu0fs.png" border="0" alt="" title="Vince" class="inlineimg" />


top 10 five weeks in a row. So what’s the problem? Viewers is secondary. How do people not know this by now? All these damn “experts” on here


----------



## Mr. WrestleMania

looper007 said:


> You are looking for a bite, I know you Showstopper . Plus when have you being interested in AEW, first time I've seen you here.


You don't have to be looking for anything to say this is a horrendous number. If people can crap on shows that take place on Christmas and New Year's, you can look at this number against the third most popular sport in the country and say that's a much bigger drop than expected, just like SD last week.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
0.759M [28th] [ - 0.204M | - 21.18% ]
0.330D [6th] [ - 0.120D | - 26.67% ]

AEW | NXT:
0.759M | 0.580M [ + 0.179M | + 30.86% ]
0.330D | 0.180D [ + 0.150D | + 83.33% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.339M [ - 0.322M | - 19.39% ]
0.510D [ - 0.150D | - 22.73% ]*


----------



## rbl85

The drop for AEW come mostly from the 18-34 demo, the other didn't drop that much.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> The audience of AEW is in majority the young adults.
> 
> So of course they're going to loose a lot of viewers against a game 7 of the World series.


Baseball fans tend to be older than AEW's audience. The World Series is obviously a different beast, since a lot of people who don't normally watch it will tune in.

But nevertheless, as Meltzer pointed out yesterday, a 10% decrease would have been fine. A 20% decrease is pretty bad, though.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

consistent drop.

AEW need another push somewhere to bring viewers back.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEWMoxley said:


> Baseball fans tend to be older than AEW's audience. The World Series is obviously a different beast, since a lot of people who don't normally watch it will tune in.
> 
> But nevertheless, as Meltzer pointed out yesterday, a 10% decrease would have been fine. A 20% decrease is pretty bad, though.


Marko Stunt draws better than Mox promos it seems

(ok, that was my last troll)


----------



## rbl85

The replay which aired directly after the show did 116K (the World series wasn't over)


----------



## Taroostyles

This week is a wash as long as the numbers rebound next week. If we are talking under 900k next week for the go home show than maybe we will have something to worry about.


----------



## NascarStan

Was hoping the rating would stay above 800k but I think we hit the floor and next week will be very important to see what their median rating will be


----------



## Botchy SinCara

Aew still in the top 10 and has been since it debuted on tv ..I don't think they have anything to worry about


----------



## NXT Only

They changed the format of the show and found it difficult to maintain viewership. The show’s flow was off, they tried to do a lot and while it was good stuff you don’t wanna give people a chance to change the channel. The Cody limo ride for an example.


----------



## AEWMoxley

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Marko Stunt draws better than Mox promos it seems
> 
> (ok, that was my last troll)


In your trolling, you still bring up something that needs to be touched on, and that I have mentioned in the past.

The show needs to be Dynamite starring Jon Moxley. The guy needs multiple segments per episode. Having him appear for under 5 minutes last night against the massive competition they had was criminal. He's their biggest and most consistent TV draw, and evidently, based on Meltzer's data, the only guy across both WWE and AEW that can consistently increase viewership in his segments. 

Why would you have someone like that appear for under 5 minutes last night, and not give him an opportunity to make a big impact on the ratings?

Another misstep by AEW, but just as they did with the promos, I'm sure they will learn from their mistake.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Couple factors imo collided to make this drop so big.

1. World series. Self explanatory. Even accounting for the demographics at play, it was obvious that this would be a factor drawing a viewers. Which, personally, baseball is just awwwful so I don't get it, but whatever 

2. Same thing I've been saying for weeks - the show is still too much like WWE. Camera work, overall aesthetics, the fact that it's more of a variety show in terms of tone and characters

AEW needs to pick a strong, unique identity and stick to it. Just doing the same thing as WWE only better, is not enough. Take NWA Power as an example. A show with a very bold and very different style that feels like it's turned wrestling on its head compared to every other show out there. People will say "there's only so many ways that a wrestling show can be different" yet NWA is proof that you can be totally unrecognizable compared to the WWE product and still be wrestling. AEW needs that theme


----------



## rbl85

NXT Only said:


> They changed the format of the show and found it difficult to maintain viewership. The show’s flow was off, they tried to do a lot and while it was good stuff you don’t wanna give people a chance to change the channel. The Cody limo ride for an example.


Actually i think there wasn't a big difference between the number of the first hour and the number of the 2nd hour.


----------



## patpat

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I believe Meltzer said anything under 850K was worrisome, so this is definitely bad.
> 
> As much as I love Hikaru Shida too, it's a fucking mistake with these matches like Shida's and the Baker/Hayter match getting so much time.


 did meltzer also predict that the game 7 would literally do 23 millions and a 5.6 demo?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Next week should show us their base. But they sure do need some huge news or angle to make that next big leap back to a million.


----------



## looper007

NXT Only said:


> They changed the format of the show and found it difficult to maintain viewership. The show’s flow was off, they tried to do a lot and while it was good stuff you don’t wanna give people a chance to change the channel. The Cody limo ride for an example.


They could have had the best episode of pro wrestling ever and the rating would have been the same. Let's stop being dramatic and acting like it's all down to AEW why the rating fell, it's cause of the World Series and if it's like this next week then moan about it. The Episode was great but they were always going to lose the battle as did the NBA and they are in their second week back.


----------



## Dave Santos

Remember that the democrat debates take place on wednesay in 2 or 3 weeks as well.


----------



## rbl85

Only the hardcore fans of wrestling would watch a wrestling show when the game 7 of the world series is on.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Couple factors imo collided to make this drop so big.
> 
> 1. World series. Self explanatory. Even accounting for the demographics at play, it was obvious that this would be a factor drawing a viewers. Which, personally, baseball is just awwwful so I don't get it, but whatever
> 
> 2. Same thing I've been saying for weeks - the show is still too much like WWE. Camera work, overall aesthetics, the fact that it's more of a variety show in terms of tone and characters
> 
> AEW needs to pick a strong, unique identity and stick to it. Just doing the same thing as WWE only better, is not enough. Take NWA Power as an example. A show with a very bold and very different style that feels like it's turned wrestling on its head compared to every other show out there. People will say "there's only so many ways that a wrestling show can be different" yet NWA is proof that you can be totally unrecognizable compared to the WWE product and still be wrestling. AEW needs that theme


AEW needs a huge angle. Their style is definitely unique, nothing like WWE.

NWA Power has lost 60% of its viewership and decreased each week just like AEW, Smackdown, and NXT.


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> Only the hardcore fans of wrestling would watch a wrestling show when the game 7 of the world series is on.


The fact it was still in the top 10 viewed shows is still damn impressive. And people still tuned in. Look at Smackdown rating, and that is a longer running show. Tells you Sports will always win out over pro wrestling.


----------



## Dave Santos

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Couple factors imo collided to make this drop so big.
> 
> 1. World series. Self explanatory. Even accounting for the demographics at play, it was obvious that this would be a factor drawing a viewers. Which, personally, baseball is just awwwful so I don't get it, but whatever


Its a game 7 of a finals. I dont really watch baseball but was willing to sacrifice 3 to 4 hours for a final game. I think there were a lot of people in the same boat.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW needs a huge angle. Their style is definitely unique, nothing like WWE.
> 
> NWA Power has lost 60% of its viewership and decreased each week just like AEW, Smackdown, and NXT.


I didn't say it needed to be the same show as Power, I said it needed to be as bold as Power. A show as bold as Power but with Khan money and TNT platform won't lose viewers 

Regarding who is losing viewers and who isn't - it took Episode 3 of Power one week to get to 200k views. Episode 4 of power is already 3/4ths of the way there after 1 day. Which means in a week they'll probably have increased on the week before. It's not millions of people but for a YouTube show, it's strong and unlike WWE, AEW and NXT a week to week pick up rather than a decline


----------



## NXT Only

looper007 said:


> They could have had the best episode of pro wrestling ever and the rating would have been the same. Let's stop being dramatic and acting like it's all down to AEW why the rating fell, it's cause of the World Series and if it's like this next week then moan about it. The Episode was great but they were always going to lose the battle as did the NBA and they are in their second week back.


This is the worst fall they’ve seen, it’s not bad they had game 7 competition but it’s still telling. They need to stick to the formula that was getting them 1M+ a week. The numbers show it.


----------



## Dave Santos

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW needs a huge angle. Their style is definitely unique, nothing like WWE.
> 
> NWA Power has lost 60% of its viewership and decreased each week just like AEW, Smackdown, and NXT.


The last 2 episodes of power seem to have similar ratings at the same point in time. Hopefully they remain. We also need to remember that Youtube also gets viewers outside the usa counted as views.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

This is what I'm curious about.


I've noticed in this thread, since week two, how a lot of people have been permanently pressing the panic button, scrambling to place blame for the declining viewership and suggesting what should be done to turn it around. The main suggestion seems to be less wrestling.


Well, we got exactly that last night. By my count, there was around 45 minutes of actual wrestling. We got promos & angles from the three biggest stars in the company. And viewership is still what it is.


So, what are we blaming now? Is it still "too much wrestling" or is it non-wrestling competition that's responsible for this week's number? Because I'm sensing the narrative is about the change and there's still going to be a strong refusal to acknowledge & accept what the real "issue" is, which is only an issue for people who have set outrageous expectations, which are somehow more valid than the network's expectations. 



Which one of y'all work for WarnerMedia now? That's the only way any of this bullshit makes any sense.


----------



## GTM24

As expected with the World series going on. And seriously who gives a shit, the only ones happy about ratings are those wwe sheep and Cornette's cult who want aew to fail.


----------



## Intimidator3

Dave Santos said:


> Its a game 7 of a finals. I dont really watch baseball but was willing to sacrifice 3 to 4 hours for a final game. I think there were a lot of people in the same boat.


Yeah, I watched it and just about everyone I know watched it. And most of us don’t even follow baseball like that. I didn’t watch one regular season game except for the all star game.


----------



## virus21

TNT is doing a replay again aren't they?


----------



## looper007

NXT Only said:


> This is the worst fall they’ve seen, it’s not bad they had game 7 competition but it’s still telling. They need to stick to the formula that was getting them 1M+ a week. The numbers show it.


NBA took a big hit, and that's bigger then AEW. A lot of tv took a hit. If it happens next week, then we discuss it. I'm sorry far too much over the top reaction to a rating that we knew would take a hit.


----------



## NXT Only

looper007 said:


> NBA took a big hit, and that's bigger then AEW. A lot of tv took a hit. If it happens next week, then we discuss it. I'm sorry far too much over the top reaction to a rating that we knew would take a hit.


NBA will always fluctuate based off who’s playing. I think it was Milwaukee/Boston. 

The key will be seeing what the World Series did last week vs this week since they had games on both nights AEW was on.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Damn, this is highly worrying.

Four weeks of big drops and the show has now lost HALF of its debut audience. This is just terrible.

Next week is seriously key, the downwards spiral can't continue.

It's really sad how both wrestling companies are struggling big time to retain viewers. Think back to early October when everyone was excited for AEW and Smackdown debut to potentially bring back a resurgence.

Oh well...


----------



## rbl85

People (other than hardcore fans) watch wrestling only when there is nothing else too watch.


----------



## Jedah

Dark Emperor said:


> Four weeks of big drops and the show has now lost HALF of its debut audience. This is just terrible.


Last week wasn't a big drop from the week before. I think it was about 5%, which might indicate a stable number.

This week was gonna be worse. They were fucked as soon as game 7 was forced.

Now we see next week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW needs a huge angle. Their style is definitely unique, nothing like WWE.
> 
> NWA Power has lost 60% of its viewership and decreased each week just like AEW, Smackdown, and NXT.


It's very bad for the industry. The only show actually holding its viewers at a reasonable rate recently is WWE Raw and that's against the NFL every week.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> It's very bad for the industry. The only show actually holding its viewers at a reasonable rate recently is WWE Raw and that's against the NFL every week.


Raw is a +25 years show.

People who watch RAW do it by habit and also because it's part of their life.

Even Raw is loosing quite a few viewersm in 2014 RAW was still doing more than 3M.
Now it's close to 2M.


----------



## looper007

Dark Emperor said:


> Damn, this is highly worrying.
> 
> Four weeks of big drops and the show has now lost HALF of its debut audience. This is just terrible.
> 
> Next week is seriously key, the downwards spiral can't continue.
> 
> It's really sad how both wrestling companies are struggling big time to retain viewers. Think back to early October when everyone was excited for AEW and Smackdown debut to potentially bring back a resurgence.
> 
> Oh well...


Next week will be more telling, let's see how it do then. This week everyone with any common sense knew AEw and NXt would take a hit cause of the World Series. Why are some acting surprised lol.


----------



## Saintpat

I love wrestling. I watched baseball last night. I keep up with the playoffs and had watched at least part of various games, but Game 7 is Game 7.

Wrestling will be on next week. Game 7 won’t.


----------



## rbl85

The fans are also a reason why the industry is doing so bad.

All those dumbass "i"m team AEW" "I'm team WWE" are not wrestling fans, they are "brand fans".


----------



## Jedah

Week 1 - 1,409,000

Week 2 - 1,140,000 (-20.9%)

Week 3 - 1,014,000 (-11.9%)

Week 4 - 963,000 (-5.9%)

Week 5 - 759,000 (-21.4%)

Things look pretty stable in the ~900k to ~1M range, maybe a little bit lower end but this week was an outlier because of the World Series. AEW didn't even lose out worse than other programs did.

The week 1 to 2 drop is typical of what happens after a pilot.


----------



## rbl85

I think some of us react like it's the end of the world because we don't live in the US so we don't really understand how big a game of the WS is.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

This is still higher that what TNT did in the last year on a Wed before AEW

And it was against game 7

Next week will be interesting


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> I think some of us react like it's the end of the world because we don't live in the US so we don't really understand how big a game of the WS is.


Seen as you said you're French, Soccer terms It be like Europa League final I'm guessing, not pulling in the same numbers like a Super Bowl/Champions League final would (which be in the Hundreds of Millions) but pull in more of a audience that will overshadow anything on TV that night. Big sport events will overshadow anything.

I think most know that it's a big event but cause it's fitting their agenda they move the goal posts. Just how it is on here. But most know this week is a free pass, for me if the rating next Wednesday is back in 800,000 it be a good sign. If it stays as it is now or moves a little up but still under 800,000, it's a worry. AEW Dynamite will not do 1 million or over every week or might not again for the foreseeable future.


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Tnt would still be ecstatic that the show they got for little money basically is still top 6 in the demos. Even with rigorous competition last night: a historic game 7. 

USA network is probably pissed they didn't pay a fraction of the cost for AEW instead


----------



## Soul Rex

World series plus NBA manhandled the audience.

But they gonna go back next week, warantee it, it was a good show.


----------



## shandcraig

LifeInCattleClass said:


> shandcraig said:
> 
> 
> 
> The level was much higher than 8 at its peak but a long term established wcw was selling less than 8 before those days. So ya they are doing well.
> 
> I csnt stress enough how long term a company that sells tickets is more important than a company that has higher ratings. Look at tna for an example, they couldnt sell tickets for years and yet had high ratings but a wrestling company is a seat selling business first
> 
> 
> 
> Eric said on the Podcast Monday - and this was during the Hogan, NWO run
> 
> That PPVs did 10k - 12k and normal shows did 7k
> 
> So, that was at the peak (monday's show)
> 
> They Obvs did a million+ in PPV buys and their TV ratings were massive - but in attendance, AEW = WCW
Click to expand...


True, i was thinking more of its highest ppv records. They did like 17 and so for a couple events in 97


----------



## Dark Emperor

looper007 said:


> Next week will be more telling, let's see how it do then. This week everyone with any common sense knew AEw and NXt would take a hit cause of the World Series. Why are some acting surprised lol.


I'm not surprised about this week and yes the reason is legit. But to be honest, people have found an excuse for a drop every single week on here and no one wants to admit the declining interest.

If ratings barely rise next week, i'm sure people will mention NBA or political debate. RAW is competing against monster viewers every week, its the nature of TV.


----------



## rbl85

looper007 said:


> Seen as you said you're French, Soccer terms It be like Europa League final I'm guessing, not pulling in the same numbers like a Super Bowl/Champions League final would (which be in the Hundreds of Millions) but pull in more of a audience that will overshadow anything on TV that night. Big sport events will overshadow anything.


It's hard to compare because the US is so much bigger than any country in Europe.

I mean when France won the world cup last year, the match did a rating of 19M.


----------



## RapShepard

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> This is what I'm curious about.
> 
> 
> I've noticed in this thread, since week two, how a lot of people have been permanently pressing the panic button, scrambling to place blame for the declining viewership and suggesting what should be done to turn it around. The main suggestion seems to be less wrestling.
> 
> 
> Well, we got exactly that last night. By my count, there was around 45 minutes of actual wrestling. We got promos & angles from the three biggest stars in the company. And viewership is still what it is.
> 
> 
> So, what are we blaming now? Is it still "too much wrestling" or is it non-wrestling competition that's responsible for this week's number? Because I'm sensing the narrative is about the change and there's still going to be a strong refusal to acknowledge & accept what the real "issue" is, which is only an issue for people who have set outrageous expectations, which are somehow more valid than the network's expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> Which one of y'all work for WarnerMedia now? That's the only way any of this bullshit makes any sense.


I think if folk would just acknowledge and accept that wrestling as a whole no matter promotion or presentation is on the decline folk would be okay with these ratings. WWE's presentation continues to lose viewers. Lucha Underground's presentation continued to lose viewers until it apparently died. Impact loses viewers steadily wherever it goes. NXT and AEW following in the same trend isn't that big of a deal, nor is it surprising.


----------



## rbl85

Charlotte:
1368 seats available
8035 number of seats in the arena

Baltimore:
2317 
12053

Nashville:
1946 
7312

Indianapolis:
1222
6854

Chicago:
1364
11.000 (more or less)

Champaign:
61
11.000 (minimum)

Garland TX:
481
Between 7000 and 8000.

Possible that the number of seats available increase because every sections might not be open.


----------



## looper007

RapShepard said:


> I think if folk would just acknowledge and accept that wrestling as a whole no matter promotion or presentation is on the decline folk would be okay with these ratings. WWE's presentation continues to lose viewers. Lucha Underground's presentation continued to lose viewers until it apparently died. Impact loses viewers steadily wherever it goes. NXT and AEW following in the same trend isn't that big of a deal, nor is it surprising.


I think it depends, I and many others do believe the fall this week for NXT, AEW and NBA is cause of the World Series, 23 million people is a lot of people. I'm not saying AEW will get a million ratings or anything but I like to wait and see next week and the few weeks after that before I judge. It won't reinvent the wheel or bring back millions of viewers.

I said AEW was going to be a niche market but it's only starting and I think even you won't really know until another few months were AEW will be at. I think people writing it off now are silly imo. WWE and Impact have been around years to and have a loyal following, in WWE's case a worldwide one.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

We have to see when AEW stops bleeding viewers to know for sure how big of an affect something like World Series had on it. If they go up next week but only to like 800k, and then continue going downwards after that it's not a good sign if a bottom is nowhere in sight. 

Same goes for NXT.


----------



## RapShepard

looper007 said:


> I think it depends, I and many others do believe the fall this week for NXT, AEW and NBA is cause of the World Series, 23 million people is a lot of people. I'm not saying AEW will get a million ratings or anything but I like to wait and see next week and the few weeks after that before I judge. It won't reinvent the wheel or bring back millions of viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> I said AEW was going to be a niche market but it's only starting and I think even you won't really know until another few months were AEW will be at. I think people writing it off now are silly imo. WWE and Impact have been around years.


But there will always be some type of sport competition on for it. Basketball is running until June and by that time the MLB will already be back up. I don't doubt they'll go a little up since the World Series is over. But I also think they continue to slightly decrease until they settle into their fan base which I expect is somewhere between 800k - 1 million. 

I mean sure anything can happen, but I just doubt AEW is going to do anything different as far as making it a habit instead of going up in ratings. I think a lot of folk have convinced themselves that "it's Vince and his booking that killed wrestling. And if someone would just book for wrestling fans things could turn around". When really I believe folk just don't give a fuck. There's always been alternative wrestling for folk to consume if they really wanted wrestling. People in general just don't want it. 

But that's why I've consistently been in the side of "hey these ratings are good for something in 2019 let alone wrestling".


----------



## looper007

RapShepard said:


> But there will always be some type of sport competition on for it. Basketball is running until June and by that time the MLB will already be back up. I don't doubt they'll go a little up since the World Series is over. But I also think they continue to slightly decrease until they settle into their fan base which I expect is somewhere between 800k - 1 million.
> 
> I mean sure anything can happen, but I just doubt AEW is going to do anything different as far as making it a habit instead of going up in ratings. I think a lot of folk have convinced themselves that "it's Vince and his booking that killed wrestling. And if someone would just book for wrestling fans things could turn around". When really I believe folk just don't give a fuck. There's always been alternative wrestling for folk to consume if they really wanted wrestling. People in general just don't want it.
> 
> But that's why I've consistently been in the side of "hey these ratings are good for something in 2019 let alone wrestling".


I understand sport will still be around but not the World series, I'm sure every company will take a hit if I don't know Super Bowl, NBA play off or World Series is on, look at Smackdown for instant last Friday. That's a one off bad rating, it won't ever be that bad again. 

I don't think AEW will be a company that will draw past a 1 million and a half, unless they create their own Stone Cold or Rock who just connects with the public big time. It's going to be a cult show for sure, with a rabid live following and I think the ratings will be a lot better then this weeks one. I don't think it be a million, they might not get back there for a while now. But I think if they can keep it to top 5 shows seen on Wednesdays and keep it over 850 to 900,000 viewers then it be a success. I think if by the end of their first year if they can do that, then they be doing well.

We won't know until a couple of months where AEW Dynamite will stand. It's only brand new and brand new things usually take time to settle down with a audience.


----------



## Ham and Egger

I will save my panic for next weeks number. I didn't even know the World Series was on yesterday.


----------



## RapShepard

looper007 said:


> I understand sport will still be around but not the World series, I'm sure every company will take a hit if I don't know Super Bowl, NBA play off or World Series is on, look at Smackdown for instant last Friday. That's a one off bad rating, it won't ever be that bad again.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think AEW will be a company that will draw past a 1 million and a half, unless they create their own Stone Cold or Rock who just connects with the public big time. It's going to be a cult show for sure, with a rabid live following and I think the ratings will be a lot better then this weeks one. I don't think it be a million, they might not get back there for a while now. But I think if they can keep it to top 5 shows seen on Wednesdays and keep it over 850 to 900,000 viewers then it be a success. I think if by the end of their first year if they can do that, then they be doing well.
> 
> 
> 
> We won't know until a couple of months where AEW Dynamite will stand. It's only brand new and brand new things usually take time to settle down with a audience.


I think we mostly agree. It's just for me I think folk should probably get used to. Be it the folk that are looking to hate, or folk that do like AEW but are panicking every week due to ratings slightly falling. When you got Emmy winning shows that average a . 5 like Atlanta did, AEW is doing more than fine for a brand new wrestling show.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Looper and Rap are both right IMO

Ratings are good for a wrestling show
AEW will be 800k to 1.5m in quieter times elsewhere - and that is a-ok

They can just hold the course


----------



## TAC41

The people on this thread blaming AEW’s viewership drop on the World Series are the same people shitting on Smackdowns viewership number when it went against the World Series and that says almost everything you need to know about this cancerous fan base. 

I’ll be interested to know what the excuse will be next week when the numbers don’t go back up. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

1m views in 24 hrs


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1189713909198073858


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

A little bit of a drop of but whatever. They're still doing good and TNT is still happy I imagine. That's what matters.


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> Jupiter Jack Daniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I'm curious about.
> 
> 
> I've noticed in this thread, since week two, how a lot of people have been permanently pressing the panic button, scrambling to place blame for the declining viewership and suggesting what should be done to turn it around. The main suggestion seems to be less wrestling.
> 
> 
> Well, we got exactly that last night. By my count, there was around 45 minutes of actual wrestling. We got promos & angles from the three biggest stars in the company. And viewership is still what it is.
> 
> 
> So, what are we blaming now? Is it still "too much wrestling" or is it non-wrestling competition that's responsible for this week's number? Because I'm sensing the narrative is about the change and there's still going to be a strong refusal to acknowledge & accept what the real "issue" is, which is only an issue for people who have set outrageous expectations, which are somehow more valid than the network's expectations.
> 
> 
> 
> Which one of y'all work for WarnerMedia now? That's the only way any of this bullshit makes any sense.
> 
> 
> 
> I think if folk would just acknowledge and accept that wrestling as a whole no matter promotion or presentation is on the decline folk would be okay with these ratings. WWE's presentation continues to lose viewers. Lucha Underground's presentation continued to lose viewers until it apparently died. Impact loses viewers steadily wherever it goes. NXT and AEW following in the same trend isn't that big of a deal, nor is it surprising.
Click to expand...

 I totally get your point but it's totally irrelevant in that particular night. The baseball game literally raped everything 23 millions viewers/5.6 in demo, nothing survived from wrestling to basketball. So your statement might have been valid from the premiere drop or potential future drop, but not this one. 
?


----------



## looper007

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Looper and Rap are both right IMO
> 
> Ratings are good for a wrestling show
> AEW will be 800k to 1.5m in quieter times elsewhere - and that is a-ok
> 
> They can just hold the course


If they don't get lower then they did last night and move back up again, then it be great news. I wait until maybe summer time next year to see where AEW Dynamite will really be at. I'm hoping for 800,000 and above will be great. Getting back into the millions will be amazing, I doubt they will for a while but you never know. 

This isn't going to collapse in over a few weeks as much as a few on here would like, Dynamite will need a lot longer then a few weeks to really find it's audience.


----------



## kuja killer

hey ?? So someone posted last week a "segment by segment" thing of the ratings where we knew exactly how many viewers were lost or gained during every match and segment.

Is there any chance to get that info again this week, for last night ?? I'm really curious how it turned out, the 1 part that i seriously said out loud to myself when watching... was that lame car riding segment with cody.

I was like "this is sure to lose alot viewers" ...because it went on too long, and i thought it was really dumb honestly... i even "zoned out" cause of how dumb the conversation was. I dont remember what they were sayinng except "im glad to be riding here with you cody" ... "in same car with you" ..something like that, it was pretty annoying 

Want to know how many viewers dropped out during that part...


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Excuses excuses, when Smackdown jumps to FS1 and loses viewership, everyone berates it. When Dynamite loses viewership 5 weeks in a row oh it’s no big deal, oh 18-34 still good, oh MLB.


----------



## rbl85

TheGreatBanana said:


> Excuses excuses, when Smackdown jumps to FS1 and loses viewership, everyone berates it. When Dynamite loses viewership 5 weeks in a row oh it’s no big deal, oh 18-34 still good, oh MLB.


Stupid….

The 2 situations have nothing in common.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

looper007 said:


> If they don't get lower then they did last night and move back up again, then it be great news. I wait until maybe summer time next year to see where AEW Dynamite will really be at. I'm hoping for 800,000 and above will be great. Getting back into the millions will be amazing, I doubt they will for a while but you never know.
> 
> This isn't going to collapse in over a few weeks as much as a few on here would like, *Dynamite will need a lot longer then a few weeks to really find it's audience*.


Exactly this. Even though it has a decent loyal fanbase, it’s still a brand new promotion and a brand new show that is still finding its audience. I’m not going to ‘panic’ until 6 months down the road, when and if TNT starts questioning the wisdom of this deal. And if that happens, my ‘panic’ will consist of going back to before October and just watching very little wrestling. Until then, ima just enjoy what I’m enjoying.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

TheGreatBanana said:


> Excuses excuses, when Smackdown jumps to FS1 and loses viewership, everyone berates it. When Dynamite loses viewership 5 weeks in a row oh it’s no big deal, oh 18-34 still good, oh MLB.


Yup because Game 3 and Game 7 are the same thing right?

Game 3 had a rating of 12mil while Game 7 was 23mil.


----------



## BigCy

Wow, you know s*** is getting crazy when even looper007 is throwing some logic bombs and making some sense. The ratings dropped so drastically because of The World Series...period. There's really no other way to spin it and I'm a huge critic of AEW. I'm 99% sure they will climb up to AT LEAST 850k next week but probably no more than 1.1 mil. They are changing some things up for the better and word will get around. The ones saying "we got more promos and ratings dropped, it's because of the segments that ratings are tanked!" as a reason for the fall are not thinking very logically considering no one knew they were going to change that till the actual show anyway. The ones arguing "it's because they had too much wrestling the first few weeks!" actually could have a point, that some didn't tune in because the constant nonstop wrestling turned people off to it, but for the few that that may have turned off they will probably hear that it is changing a bit and adding more segments and come back. 

Overall it's The World Series and I'm not one of those guys that will find any excuse for them each week considering, if they end up below 850k next week and slowly decline further then that would be cause for concern and they best start figuring out ways to get the number back up.


----------



## Dave Santos

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 1m views in 24 hrs
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1189713909198073858


Remember that there are international views as well with twitter. And I know that facebook counts views after a rewatch, that may be the case with twitter.But still thats great to see the high interest.


----------



## Dave Santos

Next year after february pretty much all of tv will be affected because of election news coverage. People love watching primaries, debates, polls etc. Right now and the past 2 years, the news stations are not doing to well since I suspect the fatigue of Trump news coverage. But on election years the news station get a massive bump.


----------



## TheDraw

TheGreatBanana said:


> Excuses excuses, when Smackdown jumps to FS1 and loses viewership, everyone berates it. When Dynamite loses viewership 5 weeks in a row oh it’s no big deal, oh 18-34 still good, oh MLB.


As I said before the very first show launched, the number the first show gets is irrelevant because everybody wants to be part of that first show and the hype to see exactly what the product will be was real. Now that we know what AEW is and the brand new car feeling has died down, it's only natural that the ratings would sharply decline.

I wouldn't worry until about the half year point. If ratings haven't improved by that point than the company is in danger of becoming exactly what TNA became and if they lose that TV contract its over in terms of reaching WWE status.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Dave Santos said:


> Next year after february pretty much all of tv will be affected because of election news coverage. People love watching primaries, debates, polls etc. Right now and the past 2 years, the news stations are not doing to well since I suspect the fatigue of Trump news coverage. But on election years the news station get a massive bump.


The Presidential Debates have massive viewership. You do not want to have the misfortune of airing at the same time of it.


----------



## thorn123

I am deflated by those numbers, even with MLB. People are missing a great show. Many brilliant shows have been cancelled over the years due to lack of popularity. I hope some of these posters are correct and there is nothing to worry about.


----------



## rbl85

TheDraw said:


> As I said before the very first show launched, the number the first show gets is irrelevant because everybody wants to be part of that first show and the hype to see exactly what the product will be was real. Now that we know what AEW is and the brand new car feeling has died down, it's only natural that the ratings would sharply decline.
> 
> I wouldn't worry until about the half year point. If ratings haven't improved by that point than the company is in danger of becoming exactly what TNA became and if they lose that TV contract *its over in terms of reaching WWE status.*


I don't think they that they believe that they will reach the same status than the WWE


----------



## RainmakerV2

I hope they dont react to this. The show they put on Wednesday is the type that gives them the best chance to sustain long term success.


----------



## Jonhern

The Raw Smackdown said:


> A little bit of a drop of but whatever. They're still doing good and TNT is still happy I imagine. That's what matters.


Yes, their highest-rated show, Animal Kingdom, does a an average .33 in the demo, and cable shows only last around ten episodes. aew 5 shows in is doing average .48 and doing that for two hours not one like Animal kingdom. Plus they will be on all year long. They are in no danger as long as they don't fall off a cliff and drop out of the top 50, maybe even more, since TNT is not paying a lot for the show right now.


----------



## Jonhern

DaveRA said:


> I am deflated by those numbers, even with MLB. People are missing a great show. Many brilliant shows have been cancelled over the years due to lack of popularity. I hope some of these posters are correct and there is nothing to worry about.


Top 10 show. Look at south park, on 20+ years, usually gets less than a million. Focus on the demo and its place on the chart, that's what matters, not total viewers.


----------



## Jonhern

Dave Santos said:


> Next year after february pretty much all of tv will be affected because of election news coverage. People love watching primaries, debates, polls etc. Right now and the past 2 years, the news stations are not doing to well since I suspect the fatigue of Trump news coverage. But on election years the news station get a massive bump.


 Yep, luckily most primaries and elections happen on a Tuesday so it won't have a big effect on AEW. Plus the younger viewers probably won't be lost, so won't' affect the demo.


----------



## Jonhern

AEWMoxley said:


> Baseball fans tend to be older than AEW's audience. The World Series is obviously a different beast, since a lot of people who don't normally watch it will tune in.
> 
> But nevertheless, as Meltzer pointed out yesterday, a 10% decrease would have been fine. A 20% decrease is pretty bad, though.


Lol, where is he pulling that out of? The NBA lost 50% week to week, is the NBA panicking now?


----------



## Jonhern

It looks like a good amount of people tuned in after the game was over to watch the replay at midnight. The first time the replay has been in the top 150 since the debut I think. 
140	AEW: ALL ELITE WRESTLING: DYNAMITE 0005 CHARLESTON WV	TURNER NETWORK TELEVISION	12:30 AM	120	0.05	116k


----------



## Jonhern

TAC41 said:


> I think it’s really fitting all the recent AEW comparisons are to WCW because it proves two things.
> 
> 1. AEW fans have realized they can no longer compare it to WWE so they’ve downgraded.
> 2. They’ve come to terms with the fact that AEW will go out of business as WCW did.
> 
> I’m predicting another 50-100k viewership drop. How about you guys?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





TAC41 said:


> Attendance has been low for every show since the premiere. Where have you been?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can compare to WWE, just look at the latest earnings report, their average attendance in North America is 4,400k per show. And that's not just house shows pulling them down, they had fewer house shows the last two quarters since the first quarter this year, remember all those house shows that got canceled this summer. So PPV, RAW, and SDL have a larger weight in the average and it has dropped over the course of the year. Also, about 20 fewer shows from the previous two years Q3 numbers, so RAW and SDL are dropping a good amount if the average is going down year over year, since the number of RAW and SDL shows stays constant.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Segment by segment breakdown of Dynamite:



> For AEW, the high point was 880,000 in the first segment. The low point was 701,000 for the Cody and Tony Schiavone car ride and Best Friends & Orange Cassidy vs. Alex Reynolds & John Silver & QT Marshall. Hikaru Shida vs. Shanna lost 85,000 viewers. The end of Shida vs. Shanna and the angle with Ortiz & Santana and the Rock & Roll Express lost 60,000 viewers. The Cody car ride and Best Friend s match lost 34,000 viewers,. The Cody/Chris Jericho contract signing and beating of Dustin Rhodes by Jake Hager gained 51,000 viewers. The Young Bucks & Kenny Omega vs. Jack Evans & Angelico & Kip Sabian lost 45,000 viewers. The end of that match plus the Jon Moxley/Peter Avalon angle and Moxley promo gained 9,000 viewers. And the Scorpio Sky & Frankie Kazarian tag title win over Pentagon Jr. & Fenix gained 55,000 viewers to 781,000.


https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/dq1una/won_segmentbysegment_breakdown_of_this_weeks/

Kenny Omega continues to lose viewers. I'm glad we have his marks celebrating a meaningless tweet that brings exactly 0 fans over to the product, though.


----------



## rbl85

So Moxley wasn't the biggest draw of the night.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> So Moxley wasn't the biggest draw of the night.


Moxley appeared on the show for 3 minutes, enough for him to continue his streak of being the only person on the roster to gain viewers in literally every segment he has been in.

By comparison, in Jericho's only live in-ring promo, he _lost_ viewers.

But back to Omega - he isn't over with the TNT audience.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Moxley appeared on the show for 3 minutes, enough for him to continue his streak of being the only person on the roster to gain viewers in literally every segment he has been in.
> 
> By comparison, in Jericho's only live in-ring promo, he _lost_ viewers.
> 
> But back to Omega - he isn't over with the TNT audience.


I wasn't trying to troll, I really thought that his segment will be the highest segment in term of ratings.

I think they should have opened the show with him.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I wasn't trying to troll, I really thought that his segment will be the highest segment in term of ratings.
> 
> *I think they should have opened the show with him*.


They did. The first thing on the show was his backstage segment with Tony Khan, which was the high point of the night.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> They did. The first thing on the show was his backstage segment with Tony Khan, which was the high point of the night.


No i mean he should have done his promo before the Page vs Guevara match


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

To me, that suggests that viewers are not interested in any match/promo that isn't driven by story. Good feedback for them.

I can see exactly why those matches lost viewers. No casual knows who some of the competitors are and there hasn't really been any effort to make them known to casuals.

Like imagine if you've never seen OC before. You see some man with his hands in his pockets looking like an idiot. You're going to turn it off.

AEW should properly introduce all their characters before any match.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> No i mean he should have done his promo before the Page vs Guevara match


I think the placement was smart. They wanted to spread out his segments because they needed someone who they could depend on to gain viewers in the last half hour of the show heading into the main event.


----------



## Jonhern

AEWMoxley said:


> Moxley appeared on the show for 3 minutes, enough for him to continue his streak of being the only person on the roster to gain viewers in literally every segment he has been in.
> 
> By comparison, in Jericho's only live in-ring promo, he _lost_ viewers.
> 
> But back to Omega - he isn't over with the TNT audience.


This is what I was saying about people saying the firefly funhouse doesn't draw, you can't attribute quarter ratings to things that are so short. A Nielson household member needs to watch at least 5 minutes to be counted. If they flip it in time for that, then flip back after it's done it wouldn't even count.


----------



## kuja killer

ha... i knew that stupid car riding thing would lose people. 
That part shouldnt have happened at all, i hated it.


----------



## cease2exist

optikk sucks said:


> To me, that suggests that viewers are not interested in any match/promo that isn't driven by story. Good feedback for them.
> 
> I can see exactly why those matches lost viewers. No casual knows who some of the competitors are and there hasn't really been any effort to make them known to casuals.
> 
> Like imagine if you've never seen OC before. You see some man with his hands in his pockets looking like an idiot. You're going to turn it off.
> 
> AEW should properly introduce all their characters before any match.


This is pretty spot on.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

"The seventh game of the World Series on 10/30 took a huge chunk out of the wrestling audience with AEW doing 759,000 viewers (1.32 viewers per home) and NXT down to 580,000 viewers (1.28 viewers per home). At first these drops of 21.2 percent for AEW and 26.7 percent in 18-49s, and 16.9 percent for NXT from last week and 16.7 percent in 18-49s look alarming, particularly when looking at how badly all the wrestling ratings have done in the last six days.

But the reality is that the NBA drop was 42.2 percent overall and 50.0 percent in 18-49 (from 0.76 to 0.38) and you realize it’s not nearly as significant as it first looks. But obviously, next week, with baseball over, will tell you how significant this week’s ratings are and where things really stand.

The seventh game did 23,013,000 viewers, which is the lowest rated game seven in modern history. But that also doesn’t include another 5.5 million viewers out of home, whether watching on a tablet, or at a bar or restaurant. It destroyed everything else on television.

TNT was second to only ESPN in the 18-49 demo during the two hours, so in that comparison, it did fine."

From the observer.


----------



## patpat

I think with time more of their wrestlers will be able to gain viewers. They just need to present them better.
Most matches will also lose viewers because the wrestlers involves are not very well known. It's going to be a work in progress and of presentation.


----------



## GTM24

AEWMoxley said:


> Moxley appeared on the show for 3 minutes, enough for him to continue his streak of being the only person on the roster to gain viewers in literally every segment he has been in.
> 
> By comparison, in Jericho's only live in-ring promo, he _lost_ viewers.
> 
> But back to Omega - he isn't over with the TNT audience.


Oh shut up, You're the biggest Omega hater here. Kenny is still getting loud cheers. Give it time for these Casuals to get familiar with him. Heck his Sans entrance got high views on twitter higher than Moxley promo. Part of me wanted Omega to stay in njpw because of haters like you.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I don't think using YouTube views is the best way to gauge interest, but consistently, the disparity between the Moxley clips and everyone else is fucking astronomical.


































They just uploaded a bunch of clips from this week, and Moxley's clip is trending way higher than the others as well.


----------



## AEWMoxley

GTM24 said:


> Oh shut up, You're the biggest Omega hater here. Kenny is still getting loud cheers. Give it time for these Casuals to get familiar with him. Heck his Sans entrance got high views on twitter higher than Moxley promo. Part of me wanted Omega to stay in njpw because of haters like you.


Kenny is a live crowd star, for sure. He pops the 6-8K, or whatever AEW's average attendance is. He is not, however, a TV star. Far from it. This is an undeniable fact, whether you like it or not.


----------



## rbl85

Technically nobody in AEW is a TV star


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I don't think using YouTube views is the best way to gauge interest, but consistently, the disparity between the Moxley clips and everyone else is fucking astronomical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They just uploaded a bunch of clips from this week, and Moxley's clip is trending way higher than the others as well.


This isn't really surprising. Moxley has moved business in three different organizations now.

He was one of the top merchandise sellers at his peak in WWE, when they were still drawing 4 million viewers per episode. We haven't gotten many quarter hour breakdowns up until recently, but the few we did get from WWE from years ago, his segments would gain viewers.

He moved numbers for NJPW World this past summer.

He was the key in generating record ticket demand for All Out, drew a ton of replay buys for DON, and is the only guy who has gained viewers every single time he has been on Dynamite.

You could make the argument that he's single handedly carrying AEW right now. His supporting cast needs to step it up. I can't even imagine the TV ratings they'd be getting without him on the show.


----------



## GTM24

Is it his fault that these casuals that only watched wwe and nothing else would watch somebody that they are familiar with, who is average in the ring??


----------



## AEWMoxley

GTM24 said:


> Is it his fault that these casuals that only watched wwe and nothing else would watch somebody that they are familiar with, who is average in the ring??


People will watch what they find entertaining.

Pac and Spears were in WWE, too. I don't see them moving business.

On the flip side, MJF wasn't in WWE, but I'm certain that once they actually start utilizing him, he'll be a big star.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

AEWMoxley said:


> People will watch what they find entertaining.
> 
> *Pac and Spears were in WWE, too.* I don't see them moving business.
> 
> On the flip side, MJF wasn't in WWE, but I'm certain that once they actually start utilizing him, he'll be a big star.


Cody and a legend like Jericho too. Mox is still blowing them out of the water.


----------



## GTM24

AEWMoxley said:


> People will watch what they find entertaining.
> 
> Pac and Spears were in WWE, too. I don't see them moving business.
> 
> On the flip side, MJF wasn't in WWE, but I'm certain that once they actually start utilizing him, he'll be a big star.


Only difference now is that Moxley could curse now Whoop Dee Do. Wow they must of loved that snoozefest of a match he had with spears. Heck Omega match with Janella and Pac we're better than Moxley's. But i guess they would watched somebody pretending to be a tough guy swearing with the worst suicide dive in the business.


----------



## AEWMoxley

GTM24 said:


> Only difference now is that Moxley could curse now Whoop Dee Do. Wow they must of loved that snoozefest of a match he had with spears. Heck Omega match with Janella and Pac we're better than Moxley's. But i guess they would watched somebody pretending to be a tough guy swearing with the worst suicide dive in the business.


Well, only one of those matches gained viewers, and it wasn't the one featuring "the best in ring performer in the world."

That tells you all you need to know about how relevant in ring skills are.


----------



## EMGESP

I don't get why they keep losing viewers when the show keeps getting better. What is it about AEW they is driving people away?


----------



## AEWMoxley

EMGESP said:


> I don't get why they keep losing viewers when the show keeps getting better. What is it about AEW they is driving people away?


Last Wednesday's episode was really the only one that was entertaining from start to finish (for the most part.) Fans were driven away by the wrestling-heavy approach of the prior weeks + the World Series.


----------



## EMGESP

AEWMoxley said:


> Last Wednesday's episode was really the only one that was entertaining from start to finish (for the most part.) Fans were driven away by the wrestling-heavy approach of the prior weeks + the World Series.


So what should they go back to 2 minute rest holds? Do people honestly enjoy that kind of wrestling?


----------



## AEWMoxley

EMGESP said:


> So what should they go back to 2 minute rest holds? Do people honestly enjoy that kind of wrestling?


No, I was referring to the mix between matches and promos/non-wrestling segments. Last episode had the perfect balance, and that's why it was their best episode. The first 4 weeks had way too much wrestling.


----------



## Boldgerg

EMGESP said:


> AEWMoxley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Last Wednesday's episode was really the only one that was entertaining from start to finish (for the most part.) Fans were driven away by the wrestling-heavy approach of the prior weeks + the World Series.
> 
> 
> 
> So what should they go back to 2 minute rest holds? Do people honestly enjoy that kind of wrestling?
Click to expand...

No, they should just do more promos and video packages, which they did this Wednesday, and the show was much better for it.


----------



## rbl85

EMGESP said:


> I don't get why they keep losing viewers when the show keeps getting better. What is it about AEW they is driving people away?


Wrestling ?


----------



## GTM24

AEWMoxley said:


> Well, only one of those matches gained viewers, and it wasn't the one featuring "the best in ring performer in the world."
> 
> That tells you all you need to know about how relevant in ring skills are.


Yea because Casual fans have low standards when it comes to pro wrestling. Also Moxley fans are mostly those obsess fans he had in wwe that mostly care about his looks and could care less about wrestling. I'm more of a Misawa and Kobashi type of wrestlers, like in wrestlers that could go.I don't mind Moxley type of wrestlers but i need more besides of mic skills.


----------



## rbl85

Moxley can go in a ring.


----------



## Beatles123

AEWMoxley said:


> No, I was referring to the mix between matches and promos/non-wrestling segments. Last episode had the perfect balance, and that's why it was their best episode. The first 4 weeks had way too much wrestling.


yikes.....


----------



## GTM24

@rbl85 Wait i thought this show was about PRO WRESTLING... These people are watching for the wrong reason then. I mean what do they want, more cuck storylines??


----------



## looper007

EMGESP said:


> I don't get why they keep losing viewers when the show keeps getting better. What is it about AEW they is driving people away?


Well this week it was the World Series.

I think it was always going to get great ratings for it first and second week, but as it settles down probably some didn't make it must watch for themselves and watch the replays and stuff or like WWE just watch the highlights on YouTube and Social Media. Maybe it was the cool thing to watch it's first few weeks then gradually some didn't bother to tune in for it again.

I think if it stays above 800,000 every week besides Wednesday where there is something massive on, they be doing well. It's always going to have great crowds, sell merch and have it's loyal audience and bring in new ones too. But I think it might take a while, if it ever does, to get back into the million rating. As I said it's going to take a while before it find's it's groove with it's audience.

The thing is TNT are over the moon with Dynamite, it's only some on here who think it's rating going up and down is the end of the world. It's doing pretty damn well right now.


----------



## Whysoserious?

EMGESP said:


> I don't get why they keep losing viewers when the show keeps getting better. What is it about AEW they is driving people away?


I think certain stuff like Sonny and Nyla turn a lot of viewers off and the flippy midgets. I also think the cheesy stuff that Omega does turns viewers away too


----------



## rbl85

GTM24 said:


> @rbl85 Wait i thought this show was about PRO WRESTLING... These people are watching for the wrong reason then. I mean what do they want, more cuck storylines??


The big problem is that wrestling is dying in the US.


----------



## Beatles123

Whysoserious? said:


> I think certain stuff like Sonny and Nyla turn a lot of viewers off and the flippy midgets. I also think the cheesy stuff that Omega does turns viewers away too


People are drawn by different things. Fuck the "Flippy midgets" meme


----------



## Whysoserious?

Beatles123 said:


> People are drawn by different things. Fuck the "Flippy midgets" meme


Another thing that turns people away is that awful comedy match they did


----------



## roadkill_

Beatles123 said:


> People are drawn by different things. Fuck the "Flippy midgets" meme


People drawn to generic midgets are in a minority. Yet the whole product seems to be built around them.

It's like I keep saying, AEW can pander to the IWC or they can do serious business. They can't do both.

IWC smarks need to realize that their passion for Z-list 5 foot nothing bores is not reflected by television viewers or casual fans, therefore advertisers aren't going to like them either. They'll come to that realization soon enough. TNT is not a permanent home. Reality is a fucking bitch.


----------



## looper007

Already put two on ignore on this page alone with more stupid and silly comments lol. You swear that the likes of Roadkill and Whysoserious? know in and outs of what people tune in for or not lol.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Boldgerg said:


> No, they should just do more promos and video packages, which they did this Wednesday, and the show was much better for it.


Sorry, gotta disagree. This last show reminded me too much of WWE. I liked the pace of the first four shows much better, and I truly hope they back it off a bit, or at the very least don't go any further down this road. I still liked the show overall, but it was probably my least favorite of them all so far. 

These attempts to attribute anything to falling ratings this early in the show's life is crazy. This is a normal trend with any new show. Four to six months down the road if the numbers are still falling, then you start thinking about what needs to be changed up. But this early, especially with the heavy sports competition they've been facing, not to mention the same trends with every other wrestling show, unless every show was total shit, it's just plain dumb to start saying one thing or another is driving viewers away.


----------



## Beatles123

roadkill_ said:


> People drawn to generic midgets are in a minority. Yet the whole product seems to be built around them.
> 
> It's like I keep saying, AEW can pander to the IWC or they can do serious business. They can't do both.
> 
> IWC smarks need to realize that their passion for Z-list 5 foot nothing bores is not reflected by television viewers or casual fans, therefore advertisers aren't going to like them either. They'll come to that realization soon enough. TNT is not a permanent home. Reality is a fucking bitch.


You need to stop thinking so highly of your own point of view right now. You are no smarter a fan than I.



Whysoserious? said:


> Another thing that turns people away is that awful comedy match they did


Factually not true. I know people who never watched AEW thst loved the tag match. It's not awful because you say it is, or because numbers on a certain night say it is.


----------



## Joe Gill

there is no one on the roster that is going to move the needle and bring in casual viewers. Those types of wrestlers are rare. Guys like Hogan, Austin and the Rock and maybe Cena. Even guys like Hart, Michaels, HHH, Edge and others never brought in casual viewers. 

Everyone just has to accept the fact that the wrestling audience is smaller, especially on TV where ratings are plummeting across the board. Jericho is terrific but he isnt worthy of watercooler talk. No one on the roster is. Just accept it and be happy that a wrestling geek with a rich dad is catering to internet fans. 

I hate flippy midgets as much as anyone but that is unfortunately the current state of wrestling. People just dont have the attention spans anymore to see a slow build match with proper psychology and story telling. It is what it is.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Disagree. Mox can be that guy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

roadkill_ said:


> People drawn to generic midgets are in a minority. Yet the whole product seems to be built around them.
> 
> It's like I keep saying, AEW can pander to the IWC or they can do serious business. They can't do both.
> 
> IWC smarks need to realize that their passion for Z-list 5 foot nothing bores is not reflected by television viewers or casual fans, therefore advertisers aren't going to like them either. They'll come to that realization soon enough. TNT is not a permanent home. Reality is a fucking bitch.


"big guys" drew 888k last week.

So if my point is not obvious, let me make it for you: Size doesn't draw. Get that Vince McMahon mentality out of your head. Only thing that draws is good storytelling and charismatic people.


----------



## rbl85

"they need big guys"

But do you think it's easy to find big guys who are good in the ring ?

I mean Khan is not going to shit big wreslters everytime he goes to the toilet...


----------



## Joe Gill

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Disagree. Mox can be that guy.


a lot of people like to make comparisons between moxley and austin in say 1997. the difference is that Austin got to feud with Bret Hart which helped elevate him to another level. Then he feuded with Michaels, Mr McMahon and Undertaker (highway to hell). And then Austin in his prime battled with the Rock in his prime. The timing of everything was perfect for Austin.

Who exactly isMoxley going to feud with that can elevate him to another level? Jericho is the only guy. Omega is too weird and zany, Rhodes isnt a true main eventer. There is no one else. Moxley will never be watercooler talk. Accept it.


----------



## rbl85

They're going to have to promote heavily the next show because the tickets sale is really bad.


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> They're going to have to promote heavily the next show because the tickets sale is really bad.


Not great but not horrible


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Not great but not horrible


The sections on the right are not open, they 're still empty.

I'd say that of the 8000 seats available in the arena, less than 40% were sold.


----------



## Daggdag

*Re: Attendance tonight*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> That was 6k easily? Maybe more
> 
> Good crowd IMO


At Survivor Series 2012, WWE barely had 8000 people in the arena. I was there and you could easily see all the empty seats. And that was in a decent market, for one of the biggest shows of the year, in an 18,000 seat arena.


AEW sold 6000 seats in a much smaller market, in a 13,000 seat arena, for a tv taping. if you base it on the percentage of the total seats sold, it means that AEW outsold WWE (46% vs 44%) in a situation where WWE should have easily beaten them. West Virginia isn't a proven wrestling market. It's not somewhere AEW should have even tried to put on an important show where a tournament final, but they still had a decent crowd given the circumstances.


----------



## patpat

roadkill_ said:


> Beatles123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> People are drawn by different things. Fuck the "Flippy midgets" meme
> 
> 
> 
> People drawn to generic midgets are in a minority. Yet the whole product seems to be built around them.
> 
> It's like I keep saying, AEW can pander to the IWC or they can do serious business. They can't do both.
> 
> IWC smarks need to realize that their passion for Z-list 5 foot nothing bores is not reflected by television viewers or casual fans, therefore advertisers aren't going to like them either. They'll come to that realization soon enough. TNT is not a permanent home. Reality is a fucking bitch.
Click to expand...

 the show is built around midget? Kenny omega is a generic "midget? Jon Moxley is a generic midget? Chris jericho is a generic midget? Cody rhodes is a generic midget? 
Dude these are the names of their very top guys I gave you. People needs to just stop bullshitting, whem I read these threads, I always wonder what the fuck people here are even talking about....


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Chan Hung said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not great but not horrible
> 
> 
> 
> The sections on the right are not open, they 're still empty.
> 
> I'd say that of the 8000 seats available in the arena, less than 40% were sold.
Click to expand...

 how do you know the sections that are opened or not? I thought the non opened sections had a different color ? I know blue = available seats and white = taken seat. Unless you can fill me in bro


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> how do you know the sections that are opened or not? I thought the non opened sections had a different color ? I know blue = available seats and white = taken seat. Unless you can fill me in bro


A few hours ago they're was no blue seats on the right side.

They're opening the sections little by little on the right side


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> how do you know the sections that are opened or not? I thought the non opened sections had a different color ? I know blue = available seats and white = taken seat. Unless you can fill me in bro
> 
> 
> 
> A few hours ago they're was no blue seats on the right side.
> 
> They're opening the sections little by little on the right side
Click to expand...

 I think they are opening sections too but how can we know what part of the white seats have been sold on the right side and which one isnt? I find it complicated ?
Hope they can sell those seats if its closed actually then tho, isnt there someone here who had all their shows with the amount of ticket sold tho. ?


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> I think they are opening sections too but how can we know what part of the white seats have been sold on the right side and which one isnt? I find it complicated ?
> Hope they can sell those seats if its closed actually then tho,* isnt there someone here who had all their shows with the amount of ticket sold tho. ?*


Me >


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think they are opening sections too but how can we know what part of the white seats have been sold on the right side and which one isnt? I find it complicated ?
> Hope they can sell those seats if its closed actually then tho,* isnt there someone here who had all their shows with the amount of ticket sold tho. ?*
> 
> 
> 
> Me <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/WrestlingForum_2014RED/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

*shocked pikachu face! 
What are the numbers for this upcoming show tho? 

Not much to do with ratings, 
Personally I think cody being on top as the top babyface is going to hold them back a bit because cody is a guy I can perfectly see as a upper mid card.


Their next programs should be mox vs Jericho as a long term feud. And have cody turn on omega to make a cody vs omega and mox vs y2j. Think that's where its heading ?


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> *shocked pikachu face!
> What are the numbers for this upcoming show tho?
> 
> Not much to do with ratings,
> Personally I think cody being on top as the top babyface is going to hold them back a bit because cody is a guy I can perfectly see as a upper mid card.
> 
> 
> Their next programs should be mox vs Jericho as a long term feud. And have cody turn on omega to make a cody vs omega and mox vs y2j. Think that's where its heading ?


I can't tell you right now, i think it's better to wait and see if every sections are open or not


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> *shocked pikachu face!
> What are the numbers for this upcoming show tho?
> 
> Not much to do with ratings,
> Personally I think cody being on top as the top babyface is going to hold them back a bit because cody is a guy I can perfectly see as a upper mid card.
> 
> 
> Their next programs should be mox vs Jericho as a long term feud. And have cody turn on omega to make a cody vs omega and mox vs y2j. Think that's where its heading ?
> 
> 
> 
> I can't tell you right now, i think it's better to wait and see if every sections are open or not
Click to expand...

 this is intriguing. ? but in fact we will see


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Joe Gill said:


> a lot of people like to make comparisons between moxley and austin in say 1997. the difference is that Austin got to feud with Bret Hart which helped elevate him to another level. Then he feuded with Michaels, Mr McMahon and Undertaker (highway to hell). And then Austin in his prime battled with the Rock in his prime. The timing of everything was perfect for Austin.
> 
> Who exactly isMoxley going to feud with that can elevate him to another level? Jericho is the only guy. Omega is too weird and zany, Rhodes isnt a true main eventer. There is no one else. Moxley will never be watercooler talk. Accept it.


Jericho starts it then who knows who jumps ship in the next year. I'm not saying he will absolutely will but the potential is there.


----------



## Beatles123

Joe Gill said:


> a lot of people like to make comparisons between moxley and austin in say 1997. the difference is that Austin got to feud with Bret Hart which helped elevate him to another level. Then he feuded with Michaels, Mr McMahon and Undertaker (highway to hell). And then Austin in his prime battled with the Rock in his prime. The timing of everything was perfect for Austin.
> 
> Who exactly isMoxley going to feud with that can elevate him to another level? Jericho is the only guy. Omega is too weird and zany, Rhodes isnt a true main eventer. There is no one else. Moxley will never be watercooler talk. Accept it.


You accept differing views. :jericho2

You lost me with your potshot at Cody.


----------



## NXT Only

Last weeks show doesn’t have the replay value any of their other shows do. It’s unfortunate because they were really firing on all cylinders but after the last show there’s nothing to really talk about or get excited for. The show was good but as many have noted it was too on par with what WWE gives you. 

They have to deliver big time for the go home show for Full Gear.


----------



## NXT Only

Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it. 

Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


----------



## rbl85

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


What smackdown have to do with AEW ?


----------



## Gh0stFace

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


who cares about Smackdown or NXT?


----------



## rbl85

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


The crowd went also crazy when Moxley was face to face with Omega

Hell even Orange got a bigger pop.…

If the reactions of the crowd really meant something rating-wise, AEW and NXT would do 4M each week


----------



## Chan Hung

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


Are u sure bud? Most of the show has been crickets. 

Yeah AEW is doing well in even WVirginia lmao


----------



## KennyOmegaa

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.



Majority of TV audience have no idea wtf is a NXT. All they saw was that the smackdown performers just got buried by a bunch of people they don't know 

I remember how much of a loser The Rock was because he did sketch comedy every week. It kept him from ever becoming a mainstream star


----------



## iarwain

The ratings _have_ to be up next week, finally. There's no Game Seven of the World Series next week, so there are no excuses. If it's down again next week, I'll be (a little) concerned for the first time. 

I still think WWE is part of the problem, they're killing enthusiasm for pro wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

iarwain said:


> The ratings _have_ to be up next week, finally. There's no Game Seven of the World Series next week, so there are no excuses. If it's down again next week, I'll be (a little) concerned for the first time.
> 
> I still think WWE is part of the problem, they're killing enthusiasm for pro wrestling.


If it don't go up next week then you can me more than a ''little" concerned.


----------



## virus21

iarwain said:


> I still think WWE is part of the problem, they're killing enthusiasm for pro wrestling.


Killed, not killing, killed!


----------



## TheLooseCanon

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


sketch comedy all night? You talking about RAW?

Cole? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

If nxt can't beat AEW in the ratings after this main roster exposure then they never will.


----------



## rbl85

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> If nxt can't beat AEW in the ratings after this main roster exposure then they never will.


NXT had main roster exposure a couple of times in the past already


----------



## looper007

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> If nxt can't beat AEW in the ratings after this main roster exposure then they never will.


They had it before, plus if the ratings for this Smackdown isn't great then it wouldn't have meant a damn. I doubt it make a dent.


----------



## The Wood

TheLooseCanon said:


> NXT Only said:
> 
> 
> 
> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.
> 
> 
> 
> sketch comedy all night? You talking about RAW?
> 
> Cole? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Click to expand...

The point is that AEW is bad parody most of the time, yet NXT presents itself seriously. That is going to have an effect on the ratings.

And I wouldn’t mock Cole. If he were free, he would legit be an EVP of AEW. He was in that circle of people before WWE plucked him. He’s friends with all the guys. 



rbl85 said:


> THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:
> 
> 
> 
> If nxt can't beat AEW in the ratings after this main roster exposure then they never will.
> 
> 
> 
> NXT had main roster exposure a couple of times in the past already
Click to expand...

They’ve never really pushed NXT on WWE television, no. There is a difference between having the Street Profits show up as NXT champs and actually promoting NXT. 

You are about to see that difference, I think.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood if you like NXT that much why do you almost never post in the NXT thread ?

Yet you keep posting in a thread about a show you clearly don't like and don't even watch…...


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> The Wood if you like NXT that much why do you almost never post in the NXT thread ?
> 
> Yet you keep posting in a thread about a show you clearly don't like and don't even watch…...


He was in that thread defending the NXT ratings and telling people to give it time, but he's on here telling everyone that AEW is in massive trouble. Sorry he's a troll and the better everyone stops given him attention the better.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NXT Only said:


> Smackdown is about have Adam Cole vs Daniel Bryan for the NXT strap, crowd went batshit for it.
> 
> Can’t do sketch comedy all night and compete with stuff like that.


We'll see how the Smackdown rating does, it's evident that the casual audience does not give a shit about good wrestling matches without compelling characters. That's been evident from EVERY Kenny Omega match bombing in viewership despite being great matches.

Daniel Bryan is fantastic, and maybe the combination of him, a title match, and it being something new will propel them for a great 1 week rating, but it absolutely will not be sustainable.


----------



## looper007

The Inbred Goatman said:


> We'll see how the Smackdown rating does, it's evident that the casual audience does not give a shit about good wrestling matches without compelling characters. That's been evident from EVERY Kenny Omega match bombing in viewership despite being great matches.
> 
> Daniel Bryan is fantastic, and maybe the combination of him, a title match, and it being something new will propel them for a great 1 week rating, but it absolutely will not be sustainable.


I think only time will tell what happens, I'm a little worried but that's just me lol. Just think with the promotion they get on RAW and Smackdown plus Survivor Series you just never know. I be interested to see how this Smackdown will do, if it does a very good rating you just wouldn't rule it out. I still think AEW will beat them in the ratings.


----------



## NXT Only

rbl85 said:


> What smackdown have to do with AEW ?


Smackdown gets more eyes than any wrestling show correct? Simply because of their network. 

You take NXT and you not only expose it to the viewers but you give them a taste of what’s going on over there. Not just an ad but you legitimize it in a way. 

That’s what it has to do with AEW and their viewership and ratings, which is what this thread is about.


----------



## NXT Only

rbl85 said:


> The crowd went also crazy when Moxley was face to face with Omega
> 
> Hell even Orange got a bigger pop.…
> 
> If the reactions of the crowd really meant something rating-wise, AEW and NXT would do 4M each week


Moxley was face to face with Omega in a match....

Orange Cassidy is the one gimmick that is insanely over, he’s the exception not the rule

Not sure what the last part even means.


----------



## rbl85

NXT Only said:


> Moxley was face to face with Omega in a match....
> 
> Orange Cassidy is the one gimmick that is insanely over, he’s the exception not the rule
> 
> *Not sure what the last part even means.*


Big pop does not = big ratings.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> The Wood if you like NXT that much why do you almost never post in the NXT thread ?
> 
> Yet you keep posting in a thread about a show you clearly don't like and don't even watch…...


Fair question. Honestly, this thread is more interesting because I like the discussion more. I don't watch NXT weekly, by the way. I feel that their shows have been solid but unspectacular and kind of pedestrian -- which isn't a bad thing and something I maintain is a strategy early on. You will see larger things set up to knock over heading into 2020, I think. I've said this ever since the early start of "the war" when it became apparent AEW were running full sprint into this while NXT was taking it at a jog. 

For the record: I do not support or like WWE as an entity. At all. I think some of their practices are absolutely _horrid_. I do not like recycling WWE buzz terminology, but they laid it out there using a pretty apt one: it's a marathon not a sprint. They have understood that there was no way they were going to get the hardcore fan to abandon AEW while it was the hot, shiny thing. They had gotten to the larger arenas first and have the "we're not WWE" vibe to them. NXT was _never_ going to beat them those opening weeks. So did they go hard? No. They are letting AEW get their best shots out of their system then going to go for a knockout. And they're probably going for it quicker than I thought, because they're doing the main roster push for NXT now that AEW has dipped below the 800k mark. 



looper007 said:


> He was in that thread defending the NXT ratings and telling people to give it time, but he's on here telling everyone that AEW is in massive trouble. Sorry he's a troll and the better everyone stops given him attention the better.


I can't believe I got blamed for "flaming" yet here is another person calling someone who doesn't share their opinion a "troll." 

You do realize that they are different promotions in completely different circumstances, right? AEW has its best shot now, NXT has its best shot later. I wouldn't have been saying "give it time" (not a direct quote, I presume) if NXT were going with their hottest programs now and had done the first big promotional push on Raw and SmackDown, which they might be doing now, so that will be crunch time. 

By the way, for all of those saying that "AEW beat SmackDown in the ratings! Lolololol!": Is it fair to point out that this week SmackDown more than tripled AEW's audience? It also featured NXT Champion Adam Cole cleanly beating Daniel Bryan in a wrestling match. It's starting.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Fair question. Honestly, this thread is more interesting because I like the discussion more. *I don't watch NXT weekly, by the way. I feel that their shows have been solid but unspectacular and kind of pedestrian -- which isn't a bad thing and something I maintain is a strategy early on. You will see larger things set up to knock over heading into 2020, I think*. I've said this ever since the early start of "the war" when it became apparent AEW were running full sprint into this while NXT was taking it at a jog.


Did you watched NXT when it was on the network ?

If you didn't then you can't know that the type show that they are doing right now are exactly the same they did when NXT was on the network.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Did you watched NXT when it was on the network ?
> 
> If you didn't then you can't know that the type show that they are doing right now are exactly the same they did when NXT was on the network.


I follow the product. I didn't even say that it was exactly the same. I just said they're obviously not going balls to the wall. I thought for sure they would counter the AEW Women's Title with Shayna dropping the belt to Candice. Didn't happen. They're sticking to their hand. AEW had a heel turn on their first show and shoots an angle every week. NXT is much more restrained. It's more an AEW/NXT comparison than an NXT/NXT comparison. And I used to watch NXT on TV because they had a deal where I am.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> I follow the product. I didn't even say that it was exactly the same. I just said they're obviously not going balls to the wall. I thought for sure they would counter the AEW Women's Title with Shayna dropping the belt to Candice. Didn't happen. They're sticking to their hand. AEW had a heel turn on their first show and shoots an angle every week. NXT is much more restrained. It's more an AEW/NXT comparison than an NXT/NXT comparison. And I used to watch NXT on TV because they had a deal where I am.


AEW had a heel turn ?

I don't remember seeing an heel turn


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

With all the overruns, perhaps NXT stand for *N*eeds e*X*tra *T*ime. :brock4

Honestly if there is a Main Roster invasion of NXT, they should withhold it until the overrun. That way you keep viewers in suspense and gain even more viewers when Dynamite ends.:vince$


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> AEW had a heel turn ?
> 
> I don't remember seeing an heel turn


Sammy Guevara. Maybe he was always heel? It's hard to keep track in AEW.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Sammy Guevara. Maybe he was always heel? It's hard to keep track in AEW.


Yes he was already a heel.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Yes he was already a heel.


Why?


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Why?


I think he always been a heel (even before AEW).


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> I think he always been a heel (even before AEW).


Yeah, but what made him a heel?


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Yeah, but what made him a heel?


He's just a natural heel.

I mean for me you don't need a reason to be a heel if you've always been a heel

However if you were a face and you turned heel, then you need a good reason for it.

That's just my opinion, i'm sure some people agree and other disagree.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> He's just a natural heel.
> 
> I mean for me you don't need a reason to be a heel if you've always been a heel
> 
> However if you were a face and you turned heel, then you need a good reason for it.
> 
> That's just my opinion, i'm sure some people agree and other disagree.


If you're in front of new crowds, you need to establish yourself as a heel. I heard him introduced by Cody as the AAA World Cruiserweight Champion and a trend-setter or some shit. All his matches are high spots from what I can tell, so I just assumed babyface. Couldn't tell. When he kicked Cody in the nuts, I definitely took that as a turn. They need to be clearer with their face and heel divide if he was supposed to be some dastardly villain, because I just saw a douche in a panda head.


----------



## Death Rider

If anyone thought Sammy Guevara was a "face" then they have not been paying the slightest bit of attention to the PPV shows before they debuted. He was quite clearly a heel if you are paying attention. Heck even on the first show before he kicked Cody in the dick he was obviously a heel.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> If you're in front of new crowds, you need to establish yourself as a heel. I heard him introduced by Cody as the AAA World Cruiserweight Champion and a trend-setter or some shit. All his matches are high spots from what I can tell, so I just assumed babyface. Couldn't tell. When he kicked Cody in the nuts, I definitely took that as a turn. They need to be clearer with their face and heel divide if he was supposed to be some dastardly villain, because I just saw a douche in a panda head.


You don't need to be a dastardly villain to be a heel.


----------



## The Wood

Death Rider said:


> If anyone thought Sammy Guevara was a "face" then they have not been paying the slightest bit of attention to the PPV shows before they debuted. He was quite clearly a heel if you are paying attention. Heck even on the first show before he kicked Cody in the dick he was obviously a heel.


When? He worked in control with Kip Sabian, but he was hardly a heel. What else did he do on PPV? I'm genuinely struggling to remember.

EDIT: He worked on the heel team at Fight for the Fallen. Did he do anything heelish though? MJF was also acting like he didn't like Shawn Spears and was doing his mock thing. And Janela and Havoc and Allin all ended up fighting.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> You don't need to be a dastardly villain to be a heel.


You need to rankle people up though. That's what being a heel is, lol.


----------



## Claro De Luna

*What's the worst that can happen if ratings and viewership continues to fall?*

The company definately has a huge following and no doubt will continue to sell tickets and merchandise but there is a bit of uncertainty as far as decent viewing numbers are concerned. I realise that we need to stay positive and that it's too early to tell but what if the numbers continue to fall and eventually go lower than say 500k, what would TNT do? Could they pull the plug on the deal altogether or do the Khan's have links with the right Turner execs to be able to keep them on the channel despite the poor numbers?


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

*Re: What's the worst that can happen if ratings and viewership continues to fall?*

Supposedly TNT were originally expecting between 350-500K, I think if they stay in that range they'll stay on TV but AEW's revenue comes from their split of ad buys, of course lower ratings means lower ad prices, which means lower revenue. I don't think they'll be in any danger of getting cancelled, wrestling is dirt cheap to produce, on 411mania they say TNT is paying $500K an episode for production costs, that's for a 2 hour block of programming, the average 1 hour drama costs $3-5M an episode. I think the absolute worst thing that could happen is them being moved to Fridays or Saturdays.


----------



## Piers

*Re: What's the worst that can happen if ratings and viewership continues to fall?*

No more fireworks for DA BIG DAWG and Charlotte.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: What's the worst that can happen if ratings and viewership continues to fall?*

It will have to be lower than what TNT got on average on the night in the last year to even talk about anything

so, 500k or so?

It is not even worth discussing IMO

Even then, they'll move it to a smaller channel they own like TruTV - and AEW might be moving to 2k - 5k arenas.... which might end up being more profitable in the long run, who knows

all things considered, AEW is here to stay


----------



## looper007

*Re: What's the worst that can happen if ratings and viewership continues to fall?*

I be shocked if it falls any further, I think they be fine as long as it's kept to 800,000 and over for the foreseeable future. Going to be some weeks when it takes a hit with sport events and such but I don't see it getting too bad for them.

Unless it goes down really badly in the ratings and doesn't even make a mark or draws in live audiences and merch sales anymore. It could well be dropped. But I think they are fine for a few years, I think some are going OTT with their reaction with the ratings but this forum does that sometimes.


----------



## Claro De Luna

looper007 said:


> I be shocked if it falls any further, I think they be fine as long as it's kept to 800,000 and over for the foreseeable future. Going to be some weeks when it takes a hit with sport events and such but I don't see it getting too bad for them.
> 
> Unless it goes down really badly in the ratings and doesn't even make a mark or draws in live audiences and merch sales anymore. It could well be dropped. But I think they are fine for a few years, I think some are going OTT with their reaction with the ratings but this forum does that sometimes.


I understand what you are saying but look at TNA when they were on on Spike. They were pulling more than a million every week but even then Spike ditched them. I fear the same fate could be in store for AEW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Claro De Luna said:


> I understand what you are saying but look at TNA then they were on on Spike. They were pulling more than a million every week but even then Spike ditched them. I fear the same fate could be in store for AEW.


your concern is misplaced

just read the messages - TNT did 400 - 500k average over the last year in that spot, at a most likely higher cost

why would anything happen?

if it fell to 300k overnight, then sure - but we're extremely far from that


----------



## patpat

I dont see them going lower, they will be back to around 900k-1.1m which I think is where they will stay 
People need to fuckin chill with the whole they will get booted off TNT, like come on people :lol


----------



## looper007

patpat said:


> I dont see them going lower, they will be back to around 900k-1.1m which I think is where they will stay
> People need to fuckin chill with the whole they will get booted off TNT, like come on people :lol


I think you get a few on here that will stick to that agenda to fit into their "I like AEW but it's going to go out of business" mode. We know who they are and that's why they are all on Ignore for me, not worth the attention. TNT is over the moon with AEW and AEW are more then happy with their lot. It's WWE that want to win this thing cause they hate playing second best to anyone.


----------



## NascarStan

AEW is the most valuable asset to TNT not named the NBA, top 5 in the ratings constirtnly on Cables Wednesday night, brought in tons of new users and subscribers to B/R Live and TNT is advertising it massively. If you honestly believe AEW is dying you are clueless

Anyone up for ratings prediction? I'll go 960k for AEW and 830k for NXT


----------



## looper007

AverageJoe9 said:


> AEW is the most valuable asset to TNT not named the NBA, top 5 in the ratings constirtnly on Cables Wednesday night, brought in tons of new users and subscribers to B/R Live and TNT is advertising it massively. If you honestly believe AEW is dying you are clueless
> 
> Anyone up for ratings prediction? I'll go 960k for AEW and 830k for NXT


900k for AEW

1 million for NXT just cause of the "will they won't they" of a main roster invasion.


----------



## V-Trigger

Isn't the main roster on tour this week?.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

900k for AEW this week

....

Might even do 1m


----------



## Stylebender

I honestly think the ratings are concerning. Dropping 100s of thousands per week, every week. Every week people say the same thing. It wont get lower then this well it did. This week was horrible even with baseball. I could definitely see them going down to 300kish unless something big happends. Moxley coming in shook things up but they need the next thing now.


----------



## patpat

Stylebender said:


> I honestly think the ratings are concerning. Dropping 100s of thousands per week, every week. Every week people say the same thing. It wont get lower then this well it did. This week was horrible even with baseball. I could definitely see them going down to 300kish unless something big happends. Moxley coming in shook things up but they need the next thing now.


 "this week was horrible even with baseball" dude it was the game 7, which drew 23 millions people and meltzer confirmed they absolutely hate aew's viewership with that game. When people say "even with baseball" it's like it's some minor event, it's the most important match of the world series and even the nba dropped 50%......
The "omg omg its over" gimmick is getting old.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Stylebender said:


> I honestly think the ratings are concerning. Dropping 100s of thousands per week, every week. Every week people say the same thing. It wont get lower then this well it did. This week was horrible even with baseball. I could definitely see them going down to 300kish unless something big happends. Moxley coming in shook things up but they need the next thing now.


I initially thought this week was a disaster too, but in comparison, Basket Ball lost like 45% of it's audience to Baseball, AEW losing 21% isn't the worse thing in the world. 

This weeks rating, and ultimately where they stabilize in early 2020 is what is going to matter. If 750K is their basement viewership with stiff competition that they aren't going to see in a while, that's still pretty good.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I initially thought this week was a disaster too, but in comparison, Basket Ball lost like 45% of it's audience to Baseball, AEW losing 21% isn't the worse thing in the world.
> 
> This weeks rating, and ultimately *where they stabilize in early 2020 is what is going to matter*. If 750K is their basement viewership with stiff competition that they aren't going to see in a while, that's still pretty good.


I don’t know why people don’t get this. They all forget this is a brand new promotion that is still finding its audience. No other new promotion has ever jumped on the scene and dominated the market before — it doesn’t work that way. They’ve all needed months, or even years before they grew and stabilized. This one is no different, other than there being many more viewing outlets than in the past. All that being said, AEW is off to a pretty damn good start. All these purveyors of doom and gloom need to just chill.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I don’t know why people don’t get this. They all forget this is a brand new promotion that is still finding its audience. No other new promotion has ever jumped on the scene and dominated the market before — it doesn’t work that way. They’ve all needed months, or even years before they grew and stabilized. This one is no different, other than there being many more viewing outlets than in the past. All that being said, AEW is off to a pretty damn good start. All these purveyors of doom and gloom need to just chill.


Meltzer even talked about it when talking about ratings, that people shouldn't take the initial numbers seriously, WWE was doing killer show after killer show in 1997 and the ratings and tickets sales didn't go up for a long time,.

It was the great shows coupled with the perfect storm of Austin, Tyson etc. that propelled them post Mania XIV. 

When talking about the attitude era, people just talk about 1998-2001, but what people don't realize is everything they did in 97 to set themselves up for that.

It's not like Rocky Maivia became The Rock and ratings went up the next night, nor did Austin/Hart happen at Mania 13 and ratings went up right away, Kane's epic debut didn't cause a gigantic surge in ratings, Vince being recognized as the evil owner etc. etc.

All of those things happened in 97, to setup the monster year in 98.


----------



## DOPA

I remember there was a thread which asked whether or not AEW should be happy with their current ratings and early on in the thread I made the case that absolutely they should be very happy with where their ratings are and I still stand by that stance.

Yes, the ratings recently have been dipping. HOWEVER, they are still well over the threshold of what TNT had projected and they are still doing very well in the key demos week to week. That is absolutely nothing to scoff at this early on.

Now I will say that should the rating not go up significantly next week that I do think there should be a little bit of concern because truth be told they and NXT for that matter should get a good ratings bump now that the world series is over. I think if they get close to what the audience was a couple of weeks ago then they are definitely very much on the right track.

Having said that, even if that doesn't happen and we don't get the increase that is expected, I still don't think they should panic. Quite the contrary in fact.

Those concerned whether it be genuine or just concern trolling if you will, seem to forget both currently and historically that it takes time for a wrestling product to build an audience, it doesn't happen over night. Those expecting a continuous rise in the ratings week after week this early on are being completely unrealistic. It took the then WWF more than a year to turn things around when they changed direction creatively in the late 90's. So let's pump the brakes shall we? TNT are not going to dump their biggest week to week show (if you discount the NBA) because of a few weeks dip. Not when that product has been outperforming their projections by a wide margin.

The main concern AEW should have above all else is the network. As long as TNT are happy with the ratings and there is absolutely no reason for them not to be unless we see a drastic drop in interest which I think is unlikely to happen, then AEW will have time to build upon and grow their audience. Rome wasn't built in a day!

The absolute last thing that Tony Khan and Co. should be doing is panicking because of a short term ratings dip and then changing their plans on the fly. That is what WWE does today and is a big reason why they have been terrible for so long. It's the same mistake TNA did as well. It leads to a higher probability of car crash TV and unnecessary hot shotting of angles....which again is the last thing AEW should be doing and something we don't need in 2019.

I don't even care as a fan personally whether or not they beat WWE week to week. Would it be nice to see WWE take a kicking from another company? Sure it would, it might wake them up and not treat their fans like garbage. But as long as AEW continue to put on a quality product week to week and sustain it's audience, then I'll be happy. I'm the most excited I've been about wrestling since at least the rise of Daniel Bryan which was like 6 years ago and it's largely because of AEW and Dynamite. So I have nothing to complain about.




Claro De Luna said:


> I understand what you are saying but look at TNA when they were on on Spike. They were pulling more than a million every week but even then Spike ditched them. I fear the same fate could be in store for AEW.


The reason why Spike ditched TNA had nothing to do with ratings and everything to do with trust. The fact is, they did not want Vince Russo involved in the creative of the company and when they had asked Dixie Carter about Russo's involvement she told them that Russo was no longer involved with TNA. Then Spike found out later on that Dixie had lied to them and in fact Russo had been hired as a consultant behind their backs.

Considering how close Spike were to TNA and the relationship they had, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. They could no longer trust TNA that they would do honest business with them. If they can't trust the company they are providing a network for then it doesn't matter how good the ratings are. You are done.

AEW has a completely different creative team and have no interest in dealing with Russo. So they aren't going to have that problem for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Stylebender

patpat said:


> "this week was horrible even with baseball" dude it was the game 7, which drew 23 millions people and meltzer confirmed they absolutely hate aew's viewership with that game. When people say "even with baseball" it's like it's some minor event, it's the most important match of the world series and even the nba dropped 50%......
> The "omg omg its over" gimmick is getting old.


I never said over. Just concerning. They were dropping 100s of thousands even before the baseball and next week will probably follow the trend.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Stylebender said:


> I never said over. Just concerning. They were dropping 100s of thousands even before the baseball and next week will probably follow the trend.


They dropped from 1.4 to 1.018 from week 1 to week 2(you can't really count simulcast numbers, people leave stations running), Week 2 to Week 3 was pretty much even, 1.018 to 1.014, Week 3 to Week 4, they lost 50,000(World Series and NBA competition) and then they went to 750ish for this week.

So really, the big drops have been from week 1 to week 2, where it was the debut drop off that always happens with the majority of shows. FFS, the WWE lost 1 MILLION viewers, and they promoted the draft for week 2, which has been historically huge for ratings.

It may sound like excuse after excuse, but for real, there has been an alibi for every week, and the week there wasn't insane competition, they stayed even, and even from decent competition in week 4, they held up strongly.


----------



## The Wood

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Supposedly TNT were originally expecting between 350-500K, I think if they stay in that range they'll stay on TV but AEW's revenue comes from their split of ad buys, of course lower ratings means lower ad prices, which means lower revenue. I don't think they'll be in any danger of getting cancelled, wrestling is dirt cheap to produce, on 411mania they say TNT is paying $500K an episode for production costs, that's for a 2 hour block of programming, the average 1 hour drama costs $3-5M an episode. I think the absolute worst thing that could happen is them being moved to Fridays or Saturdays.


No, they were not expecting that number. I keep hearing different versions of this: Happy with that number, expecting it, etc. It’s Meltzer maths. With NBA, TNT does an average of 900k in the time slot. A bit below that is fine, but they were trying to buy another live sports property. 500k comes out of context from Meltzer, which he says is because they also get B/R Live subs, which would need to be monetized and make up for the 400k they aren’t getting on TNT.


----------



## IronMan8

DOPA said:


> The reason why Spike ditched TNA had nothing to do with ratings and everything to do with trust. The fact is, they did not want Vince Russo involved in the creative of the company and when they had asked Dixie Carter about Russo's involvement she told them that Russo was no longer involved with TNA. Then Spike found out later on that Dixie had lied to them and in fact Russo had been hired as a consultant behind their backs.
> 
> Considering how close Spike were to TNA and the relationship they had, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. They could no longer trust TNA that they would do honest business with them. If they can't trust the company they are providing a network for then it doesn't matter how good the ratings are. You are done.
> 
> AEW has a completely different creative team and have no interest in dealing with Russo. So they aren't going to have that problem for the foreseeable future.


First, you wouldn’t know if Russo was secretly consulting for AEW. I mean, Russo’s son works with Cody and Cody tweets about Russo’s subscription services regularly. It’s presented as heat, but workers gunna work, so you’ll never know.

As for your argument, you’re saying no matter how good ratings are, if someone doesn’t fully trust their business partner, then it’s done... they’ll cut ties. 

Really? 

I can think of countless examples disproving the above. You’re not stupid, so it seems there was more to the story and you’re perhaps just repeating what you heard on a podcast.

Nevertheless, the take home message of TNA’s ratings history should be the following:

When a network pressures a wrestling company to increase ratings or else, it leads to a desperate situation where you need to cater to what the minute-by-minute viewing numbers tell you.

Raw’s best minute-by-minute ratings last week was for the Lana/Rusev angle. 

I have no idea what AEW’s ratings breakdown is like minute-to-minute... but if promos and angles do better than good matches, and TNT ramps up the pressure... what will happen?


----------



## Claro De Luna

All you fan boys need to take a cold shower. I was asking what would happen IF the ratings bombed. I never said it is going to happen. You lot need to chill and stop going into defence mode. I am a big fan of AEW, I am not here trolling. You fan boys and neck beards need to go get laid.


----------



## NascarStan

The Wood said:


> No, they were not expecting that number. I keep hearing different versions of this: Happy with that number, expecting it, etc. It’s Meltzer maths. With NBA, TNT does an average of 900k in the time slot. A bit below that is fine, but they were trying to buy another live sports property. 500k comes out of context from Meltzer, which he says is because they also get B/R Live subs, which would need to be monetized and make up for the 400k they aren’t getting on TNT.


You work or Turner now? please tell us what tnt expects for AEW?


----------



## rbl85

Claro De Luna said:


> All you fan boys need to take a cold shower. I was asking what would happen IF the ratings bombed. I never said it is going to happen. You lot need to chill and stop going into defence mode. I am a big fan of AEW, I am not here trolling. You fan boys and neck beards need to go get laid.


It's a stupid question dude…..

I mean you already knows the answer.


----------



## looper007

AverageJoe9 said:


> You work or Turner now? please tell us what tnt expects for AEW?


Ignore woody, you could give him facts and he keep on shitting on AEW and say they are doomed. I'm surprised so many on her still give him attention at this point.


----------



## Psychosocial

People don't realize how long it takes for there to be a serious significant shift in ratings.

There were less than 5M people watching Raw/Nitro during the early days of the MNW in '95 and by '99-'00, there was close to and some nights more than 10M people tuning to watch wrestling on Monday nights.

Now, AEW and NXT will never do the latter kind of numbers for various reasons which are out of their control, but who's to say the sub-2M crowd watching on Wednesday nights doesn't become 4-5M in a few years' time when both shows are established on national TV? Patience, please.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Claro De Luna said:


> All you fan boys need to take a cold shower. I was asking what would happen IF the ratings bombed. I never said it is going to happen. You lot need to chill and stop going into defence mode. I am a big fan of AEW, I am not here trolling. You fan boys and neck beards need to go get laid.


Sigh..... fine

If the ratings bomb, they’ll get cancelled

And they’ll most likely lose half their talent and go to a ppv-only model

Happy?


----------



## The Wood

AverageJoe9 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they were not expecting that number. I keep hearing different versions of this: Happy with that number, expecting it, etc. It’s Meltzer maths. With NBA, TNT does an average of 900k in the time slot. A bit below that is fine, but they were trying to buy another live sports property. 500k comes out of context from Meltzer, which he says is because they also get B/R Live subs, which would need to be monetized and make up for the 400k they aren’t getting on TNT.
> 
> 
> 
> You work or Turner now? please tell us what tnt expects for AEW?
Click to expand...

It’s common sense, lol. 

TNT averages a certain number of viewers. There are people who work for TNT. Those people want TNT to do as well as TNT was doing, or at least in-line with cable industry projections, so that they can keep their jobs. 

There’s nothing insane or presumptuous about that. Go up to a TNT executive and ask them if they want a big sack of money — they are going to say “Yes.” That is their job. 

Meltzer reported the 500k to both make AEW’s debut look better and because he’s done some of his trademark Meltzer maths. He’s taken the 800k that would be around about TNT’s average, taken away 300k subs and said “That’ll do.” He has explicitly stated that the 500k is “fine” (not great, not excellent) because of those subs. 

That ignores that while B/R Live and TNT are both owned by Warner, there are people in both who don’t exactly drink from the same trough. And it also ignores that those subs would need to lead somewhere (PPV and demonstrable use of B/R Live). Anyone can sub to a YouTube channel, but it doesn’t mean your views go up. 

TNT is no doubt going to be trying to secure advertising for AEW, and those specific blocks are TNT-centric. So the “well, it’s good for this thing over here” assertion falls down there too. Advertisers are going to see a difference between a slot that has 1 million viewers and a slot that has 500k. I don’t need to work for Turner to know this. 

We also only have the context Meltzer has provided for this assertion. Who did he get 500k off. An executive? Or was it Gladys from reception? Was it someone that thinks highly of wrestling or was it someone that hates it? 

Imagine Meltzer talking to Dale from Marketing: “Yeah, that rasslin’...we’d be lucky if we get 500k viewers.” The next day Meltz reports “TNT would consider 500k a great number.” See how this is sketchy? 

In addition to that, and I don’t have this on the top of my head, but I’m fairly sure Meltzer didn’t even say “great.” It always sounded to me like that is the bottom of passable. That has become “TNT expected this many” and “TNT wants this many.” No. Hoping you don’t get punched in the face is not the same thing as not wanting to get a blowjob. TNT wants as many viewers as possible and Warner as many subs as possible. People need to get this magic 500k number out of their head as some sort of grand achievement, because it’s come from someone trying to set low bars for them. 

And yes, I do believe that, because Meltzer has been oddly disingenuous with his AEW reporting. He obviously wants them to do well, which is fine, but he conflates international and domestic data for them (demonstrable) and has gone out of his way to defend creative decisions they’ve made using inappropriate historical references. Alvarez is shocking with this too (using the “show was already booked” excuse to justify Marko Stunt and flat-out lying about that segment gaining viewers). I wouldn’t slip inappropriate context for that 500k number past either of them at this point.



looper007 said:


> AverageJoe9 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You work or Turner now? please tell us what tnt expects for AEW?
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore woody, you could give him facts and he keep on shitting on AEW and say they are doomed. I'm surprised so many on her still give him attention at this point.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you *could* give me facts. That would be nice. 

People give me time because I actually engage with the subject and raise good points, as opposed to dismissing the opinion of someone because you don’t like where it’s come from. 

Got some evidence for me? Maybe a statement from TNT explaining how many viewers they expect from AEW? Or are you just going to shift Meltzer’s opinion that “500k should be enough” to “500k is all TNT hoped for and is an excellent number” and call it a “fact?”


----------



## Jonhern

The Wood said:


> No, they were not expecting that number. I keep hearing different versions of this: Happy with that number, expecting it, etc. It’s Meltzer maths. With NBA, *TNT does an average of 900k in the time slot*. A bit below that is fine, but they were trying to buy another live sports property. 500k comes out of context from Meltzer, which he says is because they also get B/R Live subs, *which would need to be monetized and make up for the 400k they aren’t getting on TNT.*


This is how we know you have no idea what you are talking about. that's not how any of this works, that's not how TV works. That's not how TNT is evaluating AEW.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

looper007 said:


> Ignore woody, you could give him facts and he keep on shitting on AEW and say they are doomed. I'm surprised so many on her still give him attention at this point.


You need to stop it man. 

I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll

You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better. 

When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why. 

Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce. 

But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine. 

He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business. 

And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts


----------



## rbl85

DMD Mofomagic said:


> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people *can't handle the truth* is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts


Which truth ?

Nobody on this forum knows the "truth".


----------



## rbl85

The tickets sale is doing bad for the show of tomorrow.

I'd say that less than 4K tickets were sold to real people.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> The tickets sale is doing bad for the show of tomorrow.
> 
> I'd say that less than 4K tickets were sold to real people.


 guess they womt be able to pack every city? 
As long as it looks good on tv


----------



## roadkill_

DMD Mofomagic said:


> You need to stop it man.
> 
> *I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll*
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts


You should see my rep page. A streak of reds from midget smarks, 'troll' this, 'troll' that, simply because I point out that this show needs casual viewers to grow or even survive, and vanilla midgets are going to make them change the channel.

Nobody cares about how many neckbeards in a bingo hall thinks random midget #241 'deserved it'.


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> The tickets sale is doing bad for the show of tomorrow.
> 
> I'd say that less than 4K tickets were sold to real people.


Looks like they're doing well 
:mj


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Looks like they're doing well
> :mj


Yeah i saw that.

There was a lot more seats available and 10min after every seats were gone

But something is strange because the section on the far left of your image was gone and as you can see it came back.


----------



## Jonhern

DMD Mofomagic said:


> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, *when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why. *
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts


He might not be a troll, it still doesn't mean he has any idea what he is talking about. Every rebuttal to the show not hitting "its numbers" are not excuses because the very question is loaded and not based in reality. He thinks if AEW is not hitting RAW numbers then TNT is going to see it at a failure which is not at all the case. The reality is the show is doing very well for TNT. The reality is if it continues in this range, .3-.5, it will be a huge success on TNT comparing it to the ratings of other shows on TNT, even some regular-season NBA numbers (Last week, for instance, the Thursday game on TNT had the same rating as AEW). And if that's the case they will get a rights deal, obviously not is big as WWE, but that's not the goal right now. That's like saying the XFL needs to get a rights deal on par with the NFL. The reason people see Wood as a troll is that he pulls false numbers out of nowhere to make his point and when given actual real data ignores it. 

For TNT it does not matter if the show has 700k or 1.5 million, as long as its getting a decent demo rating which is the most important factor in setting ad rates. And these first 5 weeks AEW has been in the top ten or five for Wednesday night. How is that not hitting their numbers? Please explain that? That is not even mentioning the fact on Wednesday last fall TNT had no shows in the Top 150 in primetime. Their best performing programming was afternoon soccer games where one cracked a .11 demo, the rest were in the .05 range. 

By his calculation, NXT would already be canceled and it's not, guess why? Because USA also had nothing in the top 150 last fall during primetime on Wednesday, expect what appears to be a Chrisly special before Thanksgiving and a WWE yearend special in December. NXT might be underperforming their rights deal, but considering its year-round content and under 600k an episode cost they might be doing just fine, we don't really know USA's calculation on that one. If we go by average commercials during an hour of tv, if they are pulling in about $10k a spot they will be breaking even on NXT. They might just need something to keep numbers up after the loss of SDL. They want to keep boasting they are the top entertainment network in the ratings after all.


----------



## DMD Mofomagic

rbl85 said:


> DMD Mofomagic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people *can't handle the truth* is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts
> 
> 
> 
> Which truth ?
> 
> Nobody on this forum knows the "truth".
Click to expand...

I just said it in that post. 

The PPV numbers dropped began Double our Morning and All Out. 

The ratings have steadily decreased, even a small decrease is a decrease. 

No company is going to pay millions of dollars for a show that loses viewers, and if they do, it isn't going to be what TNA got, which was not much. 

Some things are opinions, and some are facts, it's a matter of listening to both


----------



## Beatles123

DMD Mofomagic said:


> I just said it in that post.
> 
> The PPV numbers dropped began Double our Morning and All Out.
> 
> The ratings have steadily decreased, even a small decrease is a decrease.
> 
> No company is going to pay millions of dollars for a show that loses viewers, and if they do, it isn't going to be what TNA got, which was not much.
> 
> Some things are opinions, and some are facts, it's a matter of listening to both


You are really over exaggerating the situation.


----------



## Jonhern

The Wood said:


> It’s common sense, lol.
> 
> TNT averages a certain number of viewers. There are people who work for TNT. Those people want TNT to do as well as TNT was doing, or at least in-line with cable industry projections, so that they can keep their jobs.
> 
> There’s nothing insane or presumptuous about that. Go up to a TNT executive and ask them if they want a big sack of money — they are going to say “Yes.” That is their job.
> 
> Meltzer reported the 500k to both make AEW’s debut look better and because he’s done some of his trademark Meltzer maths. He’s taken the 800k that would be around about TNT’s average, taken away 300k subs and said “That’ll do.” He has explicitly stated that the 500k is “fine” (not great, not excellent) because of those subs.
> 
> That ignores that while B/R Live and TNT are both owned by Warner, there are people in both who don’t exactly drink from the same trough. And it also ignores that those subs would need to lead somewhere (PPV and demonstrable use of B/R Live). Anyone can sub to a YouTube channel, but it doesn’t mean your views go up.
> 
> *TNT is no doubt going to be trying to secure advertising for AEW, and those specific blocks are TNT-centric. So the “well, it’s good for this thing over here” assertion falls down there too. Advertisers are going to see a difference between a slot that has 1 million viewers and a slot that has 500k. I don’t need to work for Turner to know this.
> *
> We also only have the context Meltzer has provided for this assertion. Who did he get 500k off. An executive? Or was it Gladys from reception? Was it someone that thinks highly of wrestling or was it someone that hates it?
> 
> *Imagine Meltzer talking to Dale from Marketing: “Yeah, that rasslin’...we’d be lucky if we get 500k viewers.” The next day Meltz reports “TNT would consider 500k a great number.” See how this is sketchy? *
> 
> In addition to that, and I don’t have this on the top of my head, but I’m fairly sure Meltzer didn’t even say “great.” It always sounded to me like that is the bottom of passable. That has become “TNT expected this many” and “TNT wants this many.” No. Hoping you don’t get punched in the face is not the same thing as not wanting to get a blowjob. TNT wants as many viewers as possible and Warner as many subs as possible. People need to get this magic 500k number out of their head as some sort of grand achievement, because it’s come from someone trying to set low bars for them.
> 
> And yes, I do believe that, because Meltzer has been oddly disingenuous with his AEW reporting. He obviously wants them to do well, which is fine, but he conflates international and domestic data for them (demonstrable) and has gone out of his way to defend creative decisions they’ve made using inappropriate historical references. Alvarez is shocking with this too (using the “show was already booked” excuse to justify Marko Stunt and flat-out lying about that segment gaining viewers). I wouldn’t slip inappropriate context for that 500k number past either of them at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yeah, you *could* give me facts. That would be nice. *
> 
> People give me time because I actually engage with the subject and raise good points, as opposed to dismissing the opinion of someone because you don’t like where it’s come from.
> 
> Got some evidence for me? Maybe a statement from TNT explaining how many viewers they expect from AEW? Or are you just going to shift Meltzer’s opinion that “500k should be enough” to “500k is all TNT hoped for and is an excellent number” and call it a “fact?”


You need to educate yourself on how TV advertising works if you are going to call out others on how it works with completely wrong information. I'm guessing you are one of those people who think the demo doesn't matter and it's a made-up number, but that is all that matters and what TNT is looking at and you focusing on viewers only shows your lack of knowledge. The importance of the demo is why the cable charts are sorted by said number. That is why RAW is in the top 5 and not the top 20 after fox news and msnbc shows. Its a slow day so here is some info that will help you do a proper analysis on AEW dynamite as a TV show. 

The 18-49 demo is called the key demo and the currency of the tv ad world. The spending on 50+ viewers, ie targeting shows with a high number of such viewers accounts for only 5% of total ad spend, that's how important the key demo is. It's not the only factor, but its the most important. These numbers are from last year, average season ratings and the average ad rates they were charging for a 30-second spot (sources cited below). First, here are some shows on CBS with similar viewers, NCIS, Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon. 
Season Averages:
NCIS 12 million viewers
Big Bang 13 Million viewers 
Young Sheldon 11 million 
That's an 8% difference in viewers between BBT and NCIS, and YS and NCIS. BBT is 17% higher than YS. However, the ad rates are very different for a 30 seconds spot.

AD Rates:
NCIS $135,960
Big Bang $285,934
Young Sheldon $213,536

BBT ad rates are 71% more than NCIS, YS is 44% more than NCIS. BBT is 29% higher than YS. So why the big difference? Just look at the season average 18-49 demo ratings: 
NCIS 1.22
Big Bang 2.28
Young Sheldon 1.71
BBT is 61% higher than NCIS, YS is 33% higher than NCIS, and BBT is 29% higher than YS. 

But it's not the only thing that matters, if a show skews younger its more desirable to certain sponsors, the night a show is on, or if the audience has a higher income. Also, the break up of females and males within the demo is important to some sponsors, so a whole slew of things go into it, but the key number is always the demo rating. So let's look at shows with different total viewers. Let's keep NCIS since it has so many total viewers:

NCIS 12 mil 
Will & Grace 3 mil
Good Place 2.7 mil

Demo:
NCIS 1.22
Will & Grace .74
Good Place .85

Ad rates:
NCIS $135,960
Will & Grace $161,373
Good Place $125,498

How can W&G make more than NCIS with far lower viewers and even lower demo? Because other things go into ad rates too, W&G has a higher percentage of the demo to total viewers, it skews younger, it's on Thursday which costs more than other days, plus the audience is likely higher income. But the takeaway is that all those extra 50+ viewers do nothing for NCIS ad rates. They have 4X more viewers than both shows yet only make 8% more than GP and 17% less than W&G. If you want to compare hourly shows, just compare NCIS to Chicago Med and Fire, all have similar demos 1.2 range but both NBC shows have lower viewers, each has 4 million less than NCIS, yet similar ad rates (Fire +9%, Med +17%). 

So now getting to how this effects wrestling, the key is that all the talk about AEW losing viewers is not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be on this forum. AEW has some things working in their favor with the ratings, and that will be key to them sticking around if they hold on to those metrics. For instance, while viewers went down from week 3 to 4, the demo rating actually slightly increased. And as the data above shows the drop in viewers won't affect their ad rates. The fact that they skew younger is also a favorable sign for them because those shows can also charge more for their ads because they are seen as more hip than shows with lots of 50+ viewers. So when comparing to WWE which still is not as old skewing as a show like NCIS, it does skew older than AEW, which means AEW could be getting better ad rates than we think. This bodes well for them if they continue with these numbers when the time comes to sign a new TV deal, regardless of what WWE is doing at the time. If anything, the large deals WWE signed actually helps them get more money than if WWE was still on the old USA deal. 

And as far as TNT goes, AEW is about halfway through a normal cable tv season series run at this point, so let's compare their ratings to other shows on TNT. AEW has an average .48 rating through 5 weeks. _Animal Kingdom_ averaged a .33 this year, _claws_ averaged a .29, _I am the night_ averaged .25, and the _last ship_'s last season did a .22 last fall. AEW is currently outperforming all those shows. 

The same goes for WWE, they still do well in the demo ratings compared to the rest of tv and that's what matters to the networks.

And both AEW and WWE have another big advantage because they can bring in these sort of numbers all year long, (still to be seen if AEW can sustain it all year obviously) which also need to be accounted for when you talk about these numbers and what the networks are thinking about in relation to these shows. 

So let's see if you continue to focus on total viewers or not and make absurd claims that TNT is unhappy with AEW now that I just gave you some facts. 

Sources:
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cbs-2018-19-season-ratings/ 
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/nbc-2018-19-season-ratings/
https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/tnt-tv-show-ratings-33209/
https://adage.com/article/media/tv-pricing-chart/315120


----------



## looper007

DMD Mofomagic said:


> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts


Sorry couldn't take anyone serious once you started kissing Woody's ass. On the ignore list you go. Once you said he tells the truth, you lost all creditability.


----------



## The Wood

Jonhern said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, they were not expecting that number. I keep hearing different versions of this: Happy with that number, expecting it, etc. It’s Meltzer maths. With NBA, *TNT does an average of 900k in the time slot*. A bit below that is fine, but they were trying to buy another live sports property. 500k comes out of context from Meltzer, which he says is because they also get B/R Live subs, *which would need to be monetized and make up for the 400k they aren’t getting on TNT.*
> 
> 
> 
> This is how we know you have no idea what you are talking about. that's not how any of this works, that's not how TV works. That's not how TNT is evaluating AEW.
Click to expand...

Hey, great, nothing of substance in here. Care to dispute the average rating with actual data? Care to respond to my assertion that Warner would need to make money off AEW in other avenues for it to be even remotely relevant to discussing compensation for underperformance? You could try that instead of just telling me “We know you don’t know what you’re talking about.”



DMD Mofomagic said:


> looper007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ignore woody, you could give him facts and he keep on shitting on AEW and say they are doomed. I'm surprised so many on her still give him attention at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts
Click to expand...

You know what, credit where credit is due. Thanks for that. You’re talking sense here. That says something about how irrational
fervent AEW supports are! I kid, kid. Thanks for making the point you did. 



rbl85 said:


> DMD Mofomagic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people *can't handle the truth* is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts
> 
> 
> 
> Which truth ?
> 
> Nobody on this forum knows the "truth".
Click to expand...

This is pretty hard denial. But okay, let’s use the example DMD brought up. AEW’s PPV retention rate: 

We know from data that less than 50% of All Out purchasers also bought Double or Nothing. We also know the number of DON. We also know that All Out performed less than DON. You could use these numbers to work out that <30,000 people who ordered DON in the US came back. 

This is a fact. This is not my opinion. It is truth. Don’t dismiss people as trolls or people who make things up when they don’t. 



Jonhern said:


> DMD Mofomagic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, *when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why. *
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts
> 
> 
> 
> He might not be a troll, it still doesn't mean he has any idea what he is talking about. Every rebuttal to the show not hitting "its numbers" are not excuses because the very question is loaded and not based in reality. He thinks if AEW is not hitting RAW numbers then TNT is going to see it at a failure which is not at all the case. The reality is the show is doing very well for TNT. The reality is if it continues in this range, .3-.5, it will be a huge success on TNT comparing it to the ratings of other shows on TNT, even some regular-season NBA numbers (Last week, for instance, the Thursday game on TNT had the same rating as AEW). And if that's the case they will get a rights deal, obviously not is big as WWE, but that's not the goal right now. That's like saying the XFL needs to get a rights deal on par with the NFL. The reason people see Wood as a troll is that he pulls false numbers out of nowhere to make his point and when given actual real data ignores it.
> 
> For TNT it does not matter if the show has 700k or 1.5 million, as long as its getting a decent demo rating which is the most important factor in setting ad rates. And these first 5 weeks AEW has been in the top ten or five for Wednesday night. How is that not hitting their numbers? Please explain that? That is not even mentioning the fact on Wednesday last fall TNT had no shows in the Top 150 in primetime. Their best performing programming was afternoon soccer games where one cracked a .11 demo, the rest were in the .05 range.
> 
> By his calculation, NXT would already be canceled and it's not, guess why? Because USA also had nothing in the top 150 last fall during primetime on Wednesday, expect what appears to be a Chrisly special before Thanksgiving and a WWE yearend special in December. NXT might be underperforming their rights deal, but considering its year-round content and under 600k an episode cost they might be doing just fine, we don't really know USA's calculation on that one. If we go by average commercials during an hour of tv, if they are pulling in about $10k a spot they will be breaking even on NXT. They might just need something to keep numbers up after the loss of SDL. *They want to keep boasting they are the top entertainment network in the ratings after all.*
Click to expand...

You’ve put a lot of words into my mouth there, then gone and made the very points I would and attributed them as a knock against me. 

AEW doesn’t need to get Raw numbers. I don’t know where you get that from. Raw does extremely well on cable. Well above what the average viewership for a show is, which is why it gets paid out the ass. It also demonstrates that those numbers are possible, and that getting just a fraction of that for what should be a superior product doesn’t really deserve mojitos. 

The numbers are doing fine _for the moment_. But they keep dropping, pretty sharply, and we are less than two months in. Some people look to the future instead of seeing the start of a dip and thinking “I’m sure it’s going to be fine.” 

Please give me some real data I am ignoring. You keep saying this, yet the next thing out of your mouth is the assertion that TNT does not care about viewership, _only_ the demo rating. That is pretty bold. Citation needed. 

I’ll get to the bold bit later. 



Jonhern said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s common sense, lol.
> 
> TNT averages a certain number of viewers. There are people who work for TNT. Those people want TNT to do as well as TNT was doing, or at least in-line with cable industry projections, so that they can keep their jobs.
> 
> There’s nothing insane or presumptuous about that. Go up to a TNT executive and ask them if they want a big sack of money — they are going to say “Yes.” That is their job.
> 
> Meltzer reported the 500k to both make AEW’s debut look better and because he’s done some of his trademark Meltzer maths. He’s taken the 800k that would be around about TNT’s average, taken away 300k subs and said “That’ll do.” He has explicitly stated that the 500k is “fine” (not great, not excellent) because of those subs.
> 
> That ignores that while B/R Live and TNT are both owned by Warner, there are people in both who don’t exactly drink from the same trough. And it also ignores that those subs would need to lead somewhere (PPV and demonstrable use of B/R Live). Anyone can sub to a YouTube channel, but it doesn’t mean your views go up.
> 
> *TNT is no doubt going to be trying to secure advertising for AEW, and those specific blocks are TNT-centric. So the “well, it’s good for this thing over here” assertion falls down there too. Advertisers are going to see a difference between a slot that has 1 million viewers and a slot that has 500k. I don’t need to work for Turner to know this.
> *
> We also only have the context Meltzer has provided for this assertion. Who did he get 500k off. An executive? Or was it Gladys from reception? Was it someone that thinks highly of wrestling or was it someone that hates it?
> 
> *Imagine Meltzer talking to Dale from Marketing: “Yeah, that rasslin’...we’d be lucky if we get 500k viewers.” The next day Meltz reports “TNT would consider 500k a great number.” See how this is sketchy? *
> 
> In addition to that, and I don’t have this on the top of my head, but I’m fairly sure Meltzer didn’t even say “great.” It always sounded to me like that is the bottom of passable. That has become “TNT expected this many” and “TNT wants this many.” No. Hoping you don’t get punched in the face is not the same thing as not wanting to get a blowjob. TNT wants as many viewers as possible and Warner as many subs as possible. People need to get this magic 500k number out of their head as some sort of grand achievement, because it’s come from someone trying to set low bars for them.
> 
> And yes, I do believe that, because Meltzer has been oddly disingenuous with his AEW reporting. He obviously wants them to do well, which is fine, but he conflates international and domestic data for them (demonstrable) and has gone out of his way to defend creative decisions they’ve made using inappropriate historical references. Alvarez is shocking with this too (using the “show was already booked” excuse to justify Marko Stunt and flat-out lying about that segment gaining viewers). I wouldn’t slip inappropriate context for that 500k number past either of them at this point.
> 
> 
> 
> *Yeah, you *could* give me facts. That would be nice. *
> 
> People give me time because I actually engage with the subject and raise good points, as opposed to dismissing the opinion of someone because you don’t like where it’s come from.
> 
> Got some evidence for me? Maybe a statement from TNT explaining how many viewers they expect from AEW? Or are you just going to shift Meltzer’s opinion that “500k should be enough” to “500k is all TNT hoped for and is an excellent number” and call it a “fact?”
> 
> 
> 
> You need to educate yourself on how TV advertising works if you are going to call out others on how it works with completely wrong information. I'm guessing you are one of those people who think the demo doesn't matter and it's a made-up number, but that is all that matters and what TNT is looking at and you focusing on viewers only shows your lack of knowledge. The importance of the demo is why the cable charts are sorted by said number. That is why RAW is in the top 5 and not the top 20 after fox news and msnbc shows. Its a slow day so here is some info that will help you do a proper analysis on AEW dynamite as a TV show.
> 
> The 18-49 demo is called the key demo and the currency of the tv ad world. The spending on 50+ viewers, ie targeting shows with a high number of such viewers accounts for only 5% of total ad spend, that's how important the key demo is. It's not the only factor, but its the most important. These numbers are from last year, average season ratings and the average ad rates they were charging for a 30-second spot (sources cited below). First, here are some shows on CBS with similar viewers, NCIS, Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon.
> Season Averages:
> NCIS 12 million viewers
> Big Bang 13 Million viewers
> Young Sheldon 11 million
> That's an 8% difference in viewers between BBT and NCIS, and YS and NCIS. BBT is 17% higher than YS. However, the ad rates are very different for a 30 seconds spot.
> 
> AD Rates:
> NCIS $135,960
> Big Bang $285,934
> Young Sheldon $213,536
> 
> BBT ad rates are 71% more than NCIS, YS is 44% more than NCIS. BBT is 29% higher than YS. So why the big difference? Just look at the season average 18-49 demo ratings:
> NCIS 1.22
> Big Bang 2.28
> Young Sheldon 1.71
> BBT is 61% higher than NCIS, YS is 33% higher than NCIS, and BBT is 29% higher than YS.
> 
> But it's not the only thing that matters, if a show skews younger its more desirable to certain sponsors, the night a show is on, or if the audience has a higher income. Also, the break up of females and males within the demo is important to some sponsors, so a whole slew of things go into it, but the key number is always the demo rating. So let's look at shows with different total viewers. Let's keep NCIS since it has so many total viewers:
> 
> NCIS 12 mil
> Will & Grace 3 mil
> Good Place 2.7 mil
> 
> Demo:
> NCIS 1.22
> Will & Grace .74
> Good Place .85
> 
> Ad rates:
> NCIS $135,960
> Will & Grace $161,373
> Good Place $125,498
> 
> How can W&G make more than NCIS with far lower viewers and even lower demo? Because other things go into ad rates too, W&G has a higher percentage of the demo to total viewers, it skews younger, it's on Thursday which costs more than other days, plus the audience is likely higher income. But the takeaway is that all those extra 50+ viewers do nothing for NCIS ad rates. They have 4X more viewers than both shows yet only make 8% more than GP and 17% less than W&G. If you want to compare hourly shows, just compare NCIS to Chicago Med and Fire, all have similar demos 1.2 range but both NBC shows have lower viewers, each has 4 million less than NCIS, yet similar ad rates (Fire +9%, Med +17%).
> 
> So now getting to how this effects wrestling, the key is that all the talk about AEW losing viewers is not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be on this forum. AEW has some things working in their favor with the ratings, and that will be key to them sticking around if they hold on to those metrics. For instance, while viewers went down from week 3 to 4, the demo rating actually slightly increased. And as the data above shows the drop in viewers won't affect their ad rates. The fact that they skew younger is also a favorable sign for them because those shows can also charge more for their ads because they are seen as more hip than shows with lots of 50+ viewers. So when comparing to WWE which still is not as old skewing as a show like NCIS, it does skew older than AEW, which means AEW could be getting better ad rates than we think. This bodes well for them if they continue with these numbers when the time comes to sign a new TV deal, regardless of what WWE is doing at the time. If anything, the large deals WWE signed actually helps them get more money than if WWE was still on the old USA deal.
> 
> And as far as TNT goes, AEW is about halfway through a normal cable tv season series run at this point, so let's compare their ratings to other shows on TNT. AEW has an average .48 rating through 5 weeks. _Animal Kingdom_ averaged a .33 this year, _claws_ averaged a .29, _I am the night_ averaged .25, and the _last ship_'s last season did a .22 last fall. AEW is currently outperforming all those shows.
> 
> The same goes for WWE, they still do well in the demo ratings compared to the rest of tv and that's what matters to the networks.
> 
> And both AEW and WWE have another big advantage because they can bring in these sort of numbers all year long, (still to be seen if AEW can sustain it all year obviously) which also need to be accounted for when you talk about these numbers and what the networks are thinking about in relation to these shows.
> 
> So let's see if you continue to focus on total viewers or not and make absurd claims that TNT is unhappy with AEW now that I just gave you some facts.
> 
> Sources:
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cbs-2018-19-season-ratings/
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/nbc-2018-19-season-ratings/
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/tnt-tv-show-ratings-33209/
> https://adage.com/article/media/tv-pricing-chart/315120
Click to expand...

Where did I ever say that demo share doesn’t matter? Oh, wait—I didn’t. *You are making that up.* The demo is used as a mythic artefact by people way too much. It is an anachronistic way of looking at things given that television and media have changed so much. Key demos vary depending on who people are targeting. 

Have you ever thought about why the 18-39 is so desired? It’s because they are more frivolous and have more disposable income. That frivolity is what you have to be careful of and enhances why viewers are important. You cannot count on retaining that younger audience. “Hey, we do well with young people” is really “Hey, we do really well with young people...for the moment,” but anyone who knows what they’re talking about re: television knows that old saying. ?

You’ve done a sneaky in that you are trying to use the once heralded golden demo as an excuse to dismiss viewership in general. You’re trying to get me to say that 18-54 are not important. I’m not going to say that. But what you are actually saying, and you actually have said this, is that the other viewers don’t matter. That is false. 

Wrestling is also notoriously bad for advertising, despite its appeal to this key demo. Everyone knows this, right? I thought it was common knowledge. You go on to compare a lot of shows in network television to pro-wrestling on cable, but it conveniently leaves out a few things: 

Network television is much more readily available than cable, especially to younger demographics who have largely switched to streaming services. 

You’re comparing shows with millions of viewers to shows with less than 1 million. That’s a huge difference. It’s the difference between your ad being watched by 3 million people with a lot of them proportionately younger and a by 1 million with a lot of them proportionately younger. This betrays a cable problem more than an AEW problem, but way more goes into setting their value than them currently doing well in one demo. You allude to this, but clearly don’t understand it given your examples. 

Let’s say AEW gets 350k younger viewers. Advertisers have to decide whether they want to pay for spots to those 350k with only 400k other viewers or go to one of those other shows _you mentioned_, and pay for a spot that is going to reach, say, 1.95 million young people with 1.05 other viewers. Or they can go onto YouTube.

Also potentially affecting this is NXT’s demo presence. Not as many watch on USA, but they’ve got the demo numbers on the Network for sponsors and advertisers. We don’t know what they are, but you bet everyone with a dollar does. 

And then there’s your bold bit from earlier. Networks sort themselves by genre too. USA and TNT classify themselves as entertainment. You mention this but then talk like it’s all the same thing. You’re trying to argue for the sake of arguing.

Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about” are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020. 



looper007 said:


> DMD Mofomagic said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to stop it man.
> 
> I have had more arguments with Wood than anyone on here, and I knew he /she isn't a troll
> 
> You guys are painting him out as one because it just makes you feel better.
> 
> When he talked about the PPV drop, no one gave him a good rebuttal, when he talks about the show not hitting the numbers it needs to, it's always an excuse why.
> 
> Plain and simple, at some point, AEW needs to get paid by a TV network, of course, TNT might be happy, they are getting free programming, and wrestling is stupid cheap to produce.
> 
> But this idea that The Wood shouldn't get attention for no other reason but because people can't handle the truth is asinine.
> 
> He /She may be an insanely old school Cornette mark, but Jim Cornette may also be one of the smarter men ever in the business.
> 
> And that has been quoted by plenty of people, even some that others in this thread worship as experts
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry couldn't take anyone serious once you started kissing Woody's ass. On the ignore list you go. Once you said he tells the truth, you lost all creditability.
Click to expand...

DMD didn’t kiss my ass. We have spent most of our time arguing. DMD also provided examples of
how I bring up truths that are disregarded, which you do right here! Also pretty telling the people calling my credibility into question can’t spell the word.

Also, cut out the bullying tactics. Marginalizing people because you don’t like what they say is thuggish. If you want to ignore someone, ignore them. Don’t use it like a threat to try and get others conform to your idea of how to think.


----------



## rbl85

For fuck sake will you guys stop with the 10 fucking kilometers long post ?


----------



## Jonhern

The Wood said:


> Let’s say AEW gets 350k younger viewers. Advertisers have to decide whether they want to pay for spots to those 350k with only 400k other viewers or go to one of those other shows _you mentioned_, and pay for a spot that is going to reach, say, 1.95 million young people with 1.05 other viewers. Or they can go onto YouTube.
> 
> Also potentially affecting this is NXT’s demo presence. Not as many watch on USA, but they’ve got the demo numbers on the Network for sponsors and advertisers. We don’t know what they are, but you bet everyone with a dollar does.
> 
> Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about” are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020.


Fucking Christ I literally showed you how 50+ viewers have no affect on the ad rates and you still go on about overall viewers meaning more for wrestling and cable without providing any proof. Also the idea that wrestling ad rates are poor is not true anymore, wwe has actually done a lot to change that perception the last decade with them courting blue Chip advertisers. You are using something that again you have no proof for. You really think wwe would get all that money if they were getting the kind of ad rates they used to get in the 90s? They might be a loss leader like the NFL, but by no means is a network going to take such a huge loss. 

You are just talking out of your ass. Nxt having the demo on the network, wtf does that matter? You think a sponsor on USA cares who is watching on the network when they don't show thier ads? And how does wwe know who is watching? The network is not measured by Nielson so they have no idea what the demo share is, they only know views like YouTube This post by you just proves you are a troll. You are given actual data and just grasp at straws to refute it with no actual proof of your own and just making claims because you think that is how it works. Go back under your bridge.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rbl85 said:


> For fuck sake will you guys stop with the 10 fucking kilometers long post ?


Never seen anybody type so much and say so little as that wood person.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> For fuck sake will you guys stop with the 10 fucking kilometers long post ?


Then get out of the discussion thread? Either that or petition the mods to change the settings so that when you quote on a device it doesn’t copy every single post. I’m using the site the way it has been set up. 



Jonhern said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Let’s say AEW gets 350k younger viewers. Advertisers have to decide whether they want to pay for spots to those 350k with only 400k other viewers or go to one of those other shows _you mentioned_, and pay for a spot that is going to reach, say, 1.95 million young people with 1.05 other viewers. Or they can go onto YouTube.
> 
> Also potentially affecting this is NXT’s demo presence. Not as many watch on USA, but they’ve got the demo numbers on the Network for sponsors and advertisers. We don’t know what they are, but you bet everyone with a dollar does.
> 
> Yes, demo ratings are important, but they are not the be-all, end-all. Being on cable, being wrestling, its overall viewership, new media and competition are going to affect those numbers. Anyone saying “the demo rating is good, therefore they’ve got nothing to worry about” are making a lot of archaic and short-sighted assumptions as we approach 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> Fucking Christ I literally showed you how 50+ viewers have no affect on the ad rates and you still go on about overall viewers meaning more for wrestling and cable without providing any proof. Also the idea that wrestling ad rates are poor is not true anymore, wwe has actually done a lot to change that perception the last decade with them courting blue Chip advertisers. You are using something that again you have no proof for. You really think wwe would get all that money if they were getting the kind of ad rates they used to get in the 90s? They might be a loss leader like the NFL, but by no means is a network going to take such a huge loss.
> 
> You are just talking out of your ass. Nxt having the demo on the network, wtf does that matter? You think a sponsor on USA cares who is watching on the network when they don't show thier ads? And how does wwe know who is watching? The network is not measured by Nielson so they have no idea what the demo share is, they only know views like YouTube This post by you just proves you are a troll. You are given actual data and just grasp at straws to refute it with no actual proof of your own and just making claims because you think that is how it works. Go back under your bridge.
Click to expand...

No you didn’t prove that at all. Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. I “explained to you” how overall viewers do matter in conjunction with demos and you just ignore me. See how easy that is? You are starting from the assumption you are correct.

Wrestling has always been bad for advertising. This is a well known fact at this point. Does anyone else dispute it? I explained why overall viewers matter. To use your logic _it’s why they count them_. Otherwise, why even give boxes to people outside your precious demo? You’re turning “it doesn’t matter as much in many cases” to “it doesn’t matter in any case, or these cases, therefore it doesn’t matter here.” I’m saying “nah, this is why that doesn’t hold up.” You’re making the claim pal. Find me evidence that TNT only cares about the 18-39 demo and nothing else. I’m going by common sense until then. 

Is anyone else confused by the concept of the 18-39 demo being important but not being the only factor? Does the idea that even a high demo rating with low viewership can still be a warning sign baffle anyone else? Or is everyone else going to stick their fingers in their ears are just think “Ooh, high demo rating this week! Things are only going to go up! They must be killing in the advertising!”? 

You do know that sponsors aren’t necessarily chained to USA Network, right? If NXT is getting a high 18-39 demo on the Network, that is going to be appealing to sponsors who want a spot on a Takeover or during their programming. You’d think that someone who professes to know so much about television would be able to follow the bouncing ball on that one. 

I’m pretty sure WWE collects analytics in their customers. Would anyone else really deny this? This is why you call me a troll? The fuck? 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> For fuck sake will you guys stop with the 10 fucking kilometers long post ?
> 
> 
> 
> Never seen anybody type so much and say so little as that wood person.
Click to expand...

You could have said that shorter. And not used the borderline ableist gif.


----------



## rbl85

Then use the "spoiler"


----------



## Jonhern

The Wood said:


> Then get out of the discussion thread? Either that or petition the mods to change the settings so that when you quote on a device it doesn’t copy every single post. I’m using the site the way it has been set up.
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn’t prove that at all. Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. I “explained to you” how overall viewers do matter in conjunction with demos and you just ignore me. See how easy that is? You are starting from the assumption you are correct.
> 
> Wrestling has always been bad for advertising. This is a well known fact at this point. Does anyone else dispute it? I explained why overall viewers matter. To use your logic _it’s why they count them_. Otherwise, why even give boxes to people outside your precious demo? You’re turning “it doesn’t matter as much in many cases” to “it doesn’t matter in any case, or these cases, therefore it doesn’t matter here.” I’m saying “nah, this is why that doesn’t hold up.” You’re making the claim pal. Find me evidence that TNT only cares about the 18-39 demo and nothing else. I’m going by common sense until then.
> 
> Is anyone else confused by the concept of the 18-39 demo being important but not being the only factor? Does the idea that even a high demo rating with low viewership can still be a warning sign baffle anyone else? Or is everyone else going to stick their fingers in their ears are just think “Ooh, high demo rating this week! Things are only going to go up! They must be killing in the advertising!”?
> 
> You do know that sponsors aren’t necessarily chained to USA Network, right? If NXT is getting a high 18-39 demo on the Network, that is going to be appealing to sponsors who want a spot on a Takeover or during their programming. You’d think that someone who professes to know so much about television would be able to follow the bouncing ball on that one.
> 
> I’m pretty sure WWE collects analytics in their customers. Would anyone else really deny this? This is why you call me a troll? The fuck?
> 
> 
> 
> You could have said that shorter. And not used the borderline ableist gif.


Yes I did prove it, I showed you actual numbers with links to back those numbers up. 50+ viewers do nothing for ad rates. Reread what I posted, I did say other things are factored in, but overall viewership is not one of them and it's clear as day when you look at the numbers. It's no different for cable no matter how much you "think" that is true or what you think common sense is. Common sense would tell you NCIS should make more than a show with 4 times fewer viewers but that is not the case at all. 

And stop saying stuff is a well-known fact, that is not proof. No it's not a well-known fact wrestling is bad for ad rates. Might have been true in the past, but all we really had to go by was one report from Metzger decades ago. but all current evidence points to that not being true anymore. Just look at the industry reports of what fox is charging for Smackdown. 

And you have no understanding how Nielson works, just because they measure people over 50 does not mean anything other than they are trying to get a representative sample for thier poll and need people in every age group. Just because young people don't vote and don't vote in large enough numbers to swing an election doesn't mean a pollster will completely skip them. Plus those total viewership numbers are what networks like to use in promotions, like CBS tagline that they are the most viewed network. And the general public as well, it's easier for them to understand total viewership than this percentage of households in this age group on average during the timeslot watched this show. But they don't matter in ad rates, and it's not because Nielson decided that's how it works, it's the advertisers and the networks that use the data that Nielson provides to set the industry standards.

And yeah wwe might have info on the account holder but they have no idea who is watching or the demographics of who is watching. This is true of every steaming platform and is a big reason why streaming advertising doesn't make as much money as traditional tv advertising. Also true for cable companies and thier settop box data and it's a big reason comscore the other ratings company has never been able to replace Nielson because they rely soley on return path data and extrapolate that with census data to get household demo ratings. So no, the advertisers are not going to care about the viewership on the network, something that has no way of telling them who is watching nor any netural 3rd party to certify the numbers are accurate. 

And I showed you what other shows are doing on tnt in relation to aew. You just want to stick your head in the sand and say under a million they must be going to get cancelled because you are just wanting to toll this thread. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck. I'm just ignoring you from now on, no use trying to reason with someone like that.


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Jonhern said:


> You need to educate yourself on how TV advertising works if you are going to call out others on how it works with completely wrong information. I'm guessing you are one of those people who think the demo doesn't matter and it's a made-up number, but that is all that matters and what TNT is looking at and you focusing on viewers only shows your lack of knowledge. The importance of the demo is why the cable charts are sorted by said number. That is why RAW is in the top 5 and not the top 20 after fox news and msnbc shows. Its a slow day so here is some info that will help you do a proper analysis on AEW dynamite as a TV show.
> 
> 
> 
> The 18-49 demo is called the key demo and the currency of the tv ad world. The spending on 50+ viewers, ie targeting shows with a high number of such viewers accounts for only 5% of total ad spend, that's how important the key demo is. It's not the only factor, but its the most important. These numbers are from last year, average season ratings and the average ad rates they were charging for a 30-second spot (sources cited below). First, here are some shows on CBS with similar viewers, NCIS, Big Bang Theory and Young Sheldon.
> 
> Season Averages:
> 
> NCIS 12 million viewers
> 
> Big Bang 13 Million viewers
> 
> Young Sheldon 11 million
> 
> That's an 8% difference in viewers between BBT and NCIS, and YS and NCIS. BBT is 17% higher than YS. However, the ad rates are very different for a 30 seconds spot.
> 
> 
> 
> AD Rates:
> 
> NCIS $135,960
> 
> Big Bang $285,934
> 
> Young Sheldon $213,536
> 
> 
> 
> BBT ad rates are 71% more than NCIS, YS is 44% more than NCIS. BBT is 29% higher than YS. So why the big difference? Just look at the season average 18-49 demo ratings:
> 
> NCIS 1.22
> 
> Big Bang 2.28
> 
> Young Sheldon 1.71
> 
> BBT is 61% higher than NCIS, YS is 33% higher than NCIS, and BBT is 29% higher than YS.
> 
> 
> 
> But it's not the only thing that matters, if a show skews younger its more desirable to certain sponsors, the night a show is on, or if the audience has a higher income. Also, the break up of females and males within the demo is important to some sponsors, so a whole slew of things go into it, but the key number is always the demo rating. So let's look at shows with different total viewers. Let's keep NCIS since it has so many total viewers:
> 
> 
> 
> NCIS 12 mil
> 
> Will & Grace 3 mil
> 
> Good Place 2.7 mil
> 
> 
> 
> Demo:
> 
> NCIS 1.22
> 
> Will & Grace .74
> 
> Good Place .85
> 
> 
> 
> Ad rates:
> 
> NCIS $135,960
> 
> Will & Grace $161,373
> 
> Good Place $125,498
> 
> 
> 
> How can W&G make more than NCIS with far lower viewers and even lower demo? Because other things go into ad rates too, W&G has a higher percentage of the demo to total viewers, it skews younger, it's on Thursday which costs more than other days, plus the audience is likely higher income. But the takeaway is that all those extra 50+ viewers do nothing for NCIS ad rates. They have 4X more viewers than both shows yet only make 8% more than GP and 17% less than W&G. If you want to compare hourly shows, just compare NCIS to Chicago Med and Fire, all have similar demos 1.2 range but both NBC shows have lower viewers, each has 4 million less than NCIS, yet similar ad rates (Fire +9%, Med +17%).
> 
> 
> 
> So now getting to how this effects wrestling, the key is that all the talk about AEW losing viewers is not as big of a deal as people are making it out to be on this forum. AEW has some things working in their favor with the ratings, and that will be key to them sticking around if they hold on to those metrics. For instance, while viewers went down from week 3 to 4, the demo rating actually slightly increased. And as the data above shows the drop in viewers won't affect their ad rates. The fact that they skew younger is also a favorable sign for them because those shows can also charge more for their ads because they are seen as more hip than shows with lots of 50+ viewers. So when comparing to WWE which still is not as old skewing as a show like NCIS, it does skew older than AEW, which means AEW could be getting better ad rates than we think. This bodes well for them if they continue with these numbers when the time comes to sign a new TV deal, regardless of what WWE is doing at the time. If anything, the large deals WWE signed actually helps them get more money than if WWE was still on the old USA deal.
> 
> 
> 
> And as far as TNT goes, AEW is about halfway through a normal cable tv season series run at this point, so let's compare their ratings to other shows on TNT. AEW has an average .48 rating through 5 weeks. _Animal Kingdom_ averaged a .33 this year, _claws_ averaged a .29, _I am the night_ averaged .25, and the _last ship_'s last season did a .22 last fall. AEW is currently outperforming all those shows.
> 
> 
> 
> The same goes for WWE, they still do well in the demo ratings compared to the rest of tv and that's what matters to the networks.
> 
> 
> 
> And both AEW and WWE have another big advantage because they can bring in these sort of numbers all year long, (still to be seen if AEW can sustain it all year obviously) which also need to be accounted for when you talk about these numbers and what the networks are thinking about in relation to these shows.
> 
> 
> 
> So let's see if you continue to focus on total viewers or not and make absurd claims that TNT is unhappy with AEW now that I just gave you some facts.
> 
> 
> 
> Sources:
> 
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cbs-2018-19-season-ratings/
> 
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/nbc-2018-19-season-ratings/
> 
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/tnt-tv-show-ratings-33209/
> 
> https://adage.com/article/media/tv-pricing-chart/315120




Great post. Came in with sources and everything. I'm curious how much the TNT ad-rates are for AEW. Other than PPV's, this is their biggest money generator right now (they have a 50-50 ad split with TNT)


----------



## V-Trigger

Daily reminder to use the ignore feature.


----------



## Jonhern

KennyOmegaa said:


> Great post. Came in with sources and everything. I'm curious how much the TNT ad-rates are for AEW. Other than PPV's, this is their biggest money generator right now (they have a 50-50 ad split with TNT)


we could use CW numbers as a gage, similar numbers to cable programs. Supernatural does .41 and does $29k, Riverdale averages .36 gets about $30k, supergirl averages .35 and gets about the same, arrow does .34 and gets about $25k. 

AEW is doing a .48 average so far which is 15-34% better than all these shows. I have read conflicting info about cable getting more or less than broadcast, some say more because people have to pay for it so it's assumed they have more disposable income, but still less because of smaller audiences. For argument's sake will just say cable makes less than broadcast. maybe some other demo aspects of the audience bring it down too compared to CW programs, so let's say Dynamite gets the same as these shows, $30k per ad spot. 

The average show has 16 minutes of ads per hour, so Dynamite would have around 64 ad spots during its total run. Say about 20% are used for network ads and local cable ads, so about 50 ad spots sold. That would be $1.5million revenue per show, if they get 50% split that is $750k per show for AEW, and TNT pays the production costs. Say they do that for the whole year, that's $78 million a year, $39 million for AEW. That would essentially become the baseline for any tv rights deal. 

Say its half that because "wrestling is bad for advertising" its still pretty good revenue for a startup promotion of around $20million a year just from one source. But that likely is not happening, that is old data and not much of it at that. I won't say it's not less than other shows, but it's not the drastically low numbers some people are claiming on here. WWE would not have gotten the deals they did if that was true. FOX has for instance been selling ads at primetime rates and getting it. 

“The CPM we’re getting for this show is reflective of a primetime CPM,” Winter says. “While ‘SmackDown’ advertisers have enjoyed a history of paying a cable CPM [on USA Network and precursor Syfy], ours is more reflective of a primetime broadcast CPM.” 
https://adage.com/article/media/fox...enting-sponsor-friday-night-smackdown/2200021

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2018-19-season-ratings/


----------



## patpat

Jonhern said:


> we could use CW numbers as a gage, similar numbers to cable programs. Supernatural does .41 and does $29k, Riverdale averages .36 gets about $30k, supergirl averages .35 and gets about the same, arrow does .34 and gets about $25k.
> 
> AEW is doing a .48 average so far which is 15-34% better than all these shows. I have read conflicting info about cable getting more or less than broadcast, some say more because people have to pay for it so it's assumed they have more disposable income, but still less because of smaller audiences. For argument's sake will just say cable makes less than broadcast. maybe some other demo aspects of the audience bring it down too compared to CW programs, so let's say Dynamite gets the same as these shows, $30k per ad spot.
> 
> The average show has 16 minutes of ads per hour, so Dynamite would have around 64 ad spots during its total run. Say about 20% are used for network ads and local cable ads, so about 50 ad spots sold. That would be $1.5million revenue per show, if they get 50% split that is $750k per show for AEW, and TNT pays the production costs. Say they do that for the whole year, that's $78 million a year, $39 million for AEW. That would essentially become the baseline for any tv rights deal.
> 
> Say its half that because "wrestling is bad for advertising" its still pretty good revenue for a startup promotion of around $20million a year just from one source. But that likely is not happening, that is old data and not much of it at that. I won't say it's not less than other shows, but it's not the drastically low numbers some people are claiming on here. WWE would not have gotten the deals they did if that was true. FOX has for instance been selling ads at primetime rates and getting it.
> 
> “The CPM we’re getting for this show is reflective of a primetime CPM,” Winter says. “While ‘SmackDown’ advertisers have enjoyed a history of paying a cable CPM [on USA Network and precursor Syfy], ours is more reflective of a primetime broadcast CPM.”
> https://adage.com/article/media/fox...enting-sponsor-friday-night-smackdown/2200021
> 
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2018-19-season-ratings/


well elaborated posts backed up by sources.... I think you are out of place here sir...


----------



## rbl85

People on this forum should know that they're not allowed to use any kind of sources....


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> we could use CW numbers as a gage, similar numbers to cable programs. Supernatural does .41 and does $29k, Riverdale averages .36 gets about $30k, supergirl averages .35 and gets about the same, arrow does .34 and gets about $25k.
> 
> AEW is doing a .48 average so far which is 15-34% better than all these shows. I have read conflicting info about cable getting more or less than broadcast, some say more because people have to pay for it so it's assumed they have more disposable income, but still less because of smaller audiences. For argument's sake will just say cable makes less than broadcast. maybe some other demo aspects of the audience bring it down too compared to CW programs, so let's say Dynamite gets the same as these shows, $30k per ad spot.
> 
> The average show has 16 minutes of ads per hour, so Dynamite would have around 64 ad spots during its total run. Say about 20% are used for network ads and local cable ads, so about 50 ad spots sold. That would be $1.5million revenue per show, if they get 50% split that is $750k per show for AEW, and TNT pays the production costs. Say they do that for the whole year, that's $78 million a year, $39 million for AEW. That would essentially become the baseline for any tv rights deal.
> 
> Say its half that because "wrestling is bad for advertising" its still pretty good revenue for a startup promotion of around $20million a year just from one source. But that likely is not happening, that is old data and not much of it at that. I won't say it's not less than other shows, but it's not the drastically low numbers some people are claiming on here. WWE would not have gotten the deals they did if that was true. FOX has for instance been selling ads at primetime rates and getting it.
> 
> “The CPM we’re getting for this show is reflective of a primetime CPM,” Winter says. “While ‘SmackDown’ advertisers have enjoyed a history of paying a cable CPM [on USA Network and precursor Syfy], ours is more reflective of a primetime broadcast CPM.”
> https://adage.com/article/media/fox...enting-sponsor-friday-night-smackdown/2200021
> 
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2018-19-season-ratings/


When I was doing TV advertising still (7yrs ago) - the cable rates was always lower than normal free tv, especially with DVR function

BUT, wrestling always had a higher ‘call to action’ return - ie> the audience was more likely to engage

Which made it a hot spot, over and above the TV average

Not sure the current scenario - but I would not be shocked if this was still a trend (a more engaged audience which brings in higher than average ad rates)

Ps> very good posts from you - A+ will rep


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> When I was doing TV advertising still (7yrs ago) - the cable rates was always lower than normal free tv, especially with DVR function
> 
> BUT, wrestling always had a higher ‘call to action’ return - ie> the audience was more likely to engage
> 
> Which made it a hot spot, over and above the TV average
> 
> Not sure the current scenario - but I would not be shocked if this was still a trend (a more engaged audience which brings in higher than average ad rates)
> 
> Ps> very good posts from you - A+ will rep


Thank you, and that's much more recent info than people saying Metzler said in the 90s WWF was getting bad ad rates and therefore it must be true today. .


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Jonhern said:


> we could use CW numbers as a gage, similar numbers to cable programs. Supernatural does .41 and does $29k, Riverdale averages .36 gets about $30k, supergirl averages .35 and gets about the same, arrow does .34 and gets about $25k.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW is doing a .48 average so far which is 15-34% better than all these shows. I have read conflicting info about cable getting more or less than broadcast, some say more because people have to pay for it so it's assumed they have more disposable income, but still less because of smaller audiences. For argument's sake will just say cable makes less than broadcast. maybe some other demo aspects of the audience bring it down too compared to CW programs, so let's say Dynamite gets the same as these shows, $30k per ad spot.
> 
> 
> 
> The average show has 16 minutes of ads per hour, so Dynamite would have around 64 ad spots during its total run. Say about 20% are used for network ads and local cable ads, so about 50 ad spots sold. That would be $1.5million revenue per show, if they get 50% split that is $750k per show for AEW, and TNT pays the production costs. Say they do that for the whole year, that's $78 million a year, $39 million for AEW. That would essentially become the baseline for any tv rights deal.
> 
> 
> 
> Say its half that because "wrestling is bad for advertising" its still pretty good revenue for a startup promotion of around $20million a year just from one source. But that likely is not happening, that is old data and not much of it at that. I won't say it's not less than other shows, but it's not the drastically low numbers some people are claiming on here. WWE would not have gotten the deals they did if that was true. FOX has for instance been selling ads at primetime rates and getting it.
> 
> 
> 
> “The CPM we’re getting for this show is reflective of a primetime CPM,” Winter says. “While ‘SmackDown’ advertisers have enjoyed a history of paying a cable CPM [on USA Network and precursor Syfy], ours is more reflective of a primetime broadcast CPM.”
> 
> https://adage.com/article/media/fox...enting-sponsor-friday-night-smackdown/2200021
> 
> 
> 
> https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/cw-2018-19-season-ratings/



To add to your numbers, TNT is paying the production cost to the tune of 500K/a week or $26M a year (according to Meltzer). We also have to keep in mind these numbers don't include international revenue. They are doing wonderfully in Canada and UK, for example (ratings keep going up there, TSN is already moving them from TSN 2 to the main channel). Or however much they are making off Fite 

Thanks for going the extra mile. So it will be more than sustainable and a profitable venture until the current deal expires (2 year deal). If they keep the demos in he same range, they are gonna get fucking paid. South park which has only beaten AEW once in the demos/ratings just signed a $500M streaming deal with HBO Max. Granted, South Park is a long running program, has a lot more content, so not necessarily comparing the two, but the only time it beat AEW was a world series game 7 that pulled a monster number


----------



## Jonhern

KennyOmegaa said:


> To add to your numbers, TNT is paying the production cost to the tune of 500K/a week or $26M a year (according to Meltzer). We also have to keep in mind these numbers don't include international revenue. They are doing wonderfully in Canada and UK, for example (ratings keep going up there, TSN is already moving them from TSN 2 to the main channel). Or however much they are making off Fite
> 
> Thanks for going the extra mile. So it will be more than sustainable and a profitable venture until the current deal expires (2 year deal). If they keep the demos in he same range, they are gonna get fucking paid. South park which has only beaten AEW once in the demos/ratings just signed a $500M streaming deal with HBO Max. Granted, South Park is a long running program, has a lot more content, so not necessarily comparing the two, but the only time it beat AEW was a world series game 7 that pulled a monster number


Yes, we also don't know what all the replays are doing some have done well enough to be in the top 150, the others might still be getting decent numbers for being a replay.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

V-Trigger said:


> Daily reminder to use the ignore feature.


How do you use it?


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

The Inbred Goatman said:


> How do you use it?


You have to write a letter to the admins saying "I'm a baby and contrary opinions hurt my feelings wah" along with the list of posters who got to you :lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Inbred Goatman said:


> How do you use it?


Click on the users’ name

Go in their profile

There is a drop-down where you can choose ‘ignore’


----------



## The Wood

Jonhern said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then get out of the discussion thread? Either that or petition the mods to change the settings so that when you quote on a device it doesn’t copy every single post. I’m using the site the way it has been set up.
> 
> 
> 
> No you didn’t prove that at all. Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. I “explained to you” how overall viewers do matter in conjunction with demos and you just ignore me. See how easy that is? You are starting from the assumption you are correct.
> 
> Wrestling has always been bad for advertising. This is a well known fact at this point. Does anyone else dispute it? I explained why overall viewers matter. To use your logic _it’s why they count them_. Otherwise, why even give boxes to people outside your precious demo? You’re turning “it doesn’t matter as much in many cases” to “it doesn’t matter in any case, or these cases, therefore it doesn’t matter here.” I’m saying “nah, this is why that doesn’t hold up.” You’re making the claim pal. Find me evidence that TNT only cares about the 18-39 demo and nothing else. I’m going by common sense until then.
> 
> Is anyone else confused by the concept of the 18-39 demo being important but not being the only factor? Does the idea that even a high demo rating with low viewership can still be a warning sign baffle anyone else? Or is everyone else going to stick their fingers in their ears are just think “Ooh, high demo rating this week! Things are only going to go up! They must be killing in the advertising!”?
> 
> You do know that sponsors aren’t necessarily chained to USA Network, right? If NXT is getting a high 18-39 demo on the Network, that is going to be appealing to sponsors who want a spot on a Takeover or during their programming. You’d think that someone who professes to know so much about television would be able to follow the bouncing ball on that one.
> 
> I’m pretty sure WWE collects analytics in their customers. Would anyone else really deny this? This is why you call me a troll? The fuck?
> 
> 
> 
> You could have said that shorter. And not used the borderline ableist gif.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I did prove it, I showed you actual numbers with links to back those numbers up. 50+ viewers do nothing for ad rates. Reread what I posted, I did say other things are factored in, but overall viewership is not one of them and it's clear as day when you look at the numbers. It's no different for cable no matter how much you "think" that is true or what you think common sense is. Common sense would tell you NCIS should make more than a show with 4 times fewer viewers but that is not the case at all.
> 
> And stop saying stuff is a well-known fact, that is not proof. No it's not a well-known fact wrestling is bad for ad rates. Might have been true in the past, but all we really had to go by was one report from Metzger decades ago. but all current evidence points to that not being true anymore. Just look at the industry reports of what fox is charging for Smackdown.
> 
> And you have no understanding how Nielson works, just because they measure people over 50 does not mean anything other than they are trying to get a representative sample for thier poll and need people in every age group. Just because young people don't vote and don't vote in large enough numbers to swing an election doesn't mean a pollster will completely skip them. Plus those total viewership numbers are what networks like to use in promotions, like CBS tagline that they are the most viewed network. And the general public as well, it's easier for them to understand total viewership than this percentage of households in this age group on average during the timeslot watched this show. But they don't matter in ad rates, and it's not because Nielson decided that's how it works, it's the advertisers and the networks that use the data that Nielson provides to set the industry standards.
> 
> And yeah wwe might have info on the account holder but they have no idea who is watching or the demographics of who is watching. This is true of every steaming platform and is a big reason why streaming advertising doesn't make as much money as traditional tv advertising. Also true for cable companies and thier settop box data and it's a big reason comscore the other ratings company has never been able to replace Nielson because they rely soley on return path data and extrapolate that with census data to get household demo ratings. So no, the advertisers are not going to care about the viewership on the network, something that has no way of telling them who is watching nor any netural 3rd party to certify the numbers are accurate.
> 
> And I showed you what other shows are doing on tnt in relation to aew. You just want to stick your head in the sand and say under a million they must be going to get cancelled because you are just wanting to toll this thread. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then it's a duck. I'm just ignoring you from now on, no use trying to reason with someone like that.
Click to expand...

And I explained why that’s specious reasoning. You are dealing with shows that do extremely large viewership in comparison to shows that also have large viewerships with a large 18-39 demo share. Can you understand how reaching 1 million young people is very different from reaching 300k? If I’m an advertiser and I’m looking to sell a product to that demo, I am going for the 1 million. Viewership outside that demo supplements this and is sometimes even desirable. 

Posting the ad rates for network shows with large demos and viewership is not the same thing as “proving” that TNT and AEW are making a killing off Dynamite because their demos are high and that’s all that matters. 

Wrestling is bad for advertising. If you don’t want to believe it, that’s on you. Go and do your own research on it. I don’t think anyone else here would dispute that. 

And where have I ever said that AEW is going to get cancelled because their viewership is under a million? You literally just made that up to try and get away with calling me a troll. I think their viewership consistently going down is concerning, especially if it is below the network average. That is obviously going to affect their standing and leverage with the network. What about that is trolling? 

I cancelled my WWE Network subscription years ago now, but I’m fairly certain I had to sign up with an email and give details. You can obviously create fake profiles, but I’m fairly certain WWE would have data on which countries the Network goes to, the estimated age of subscribers, and what subscribers who like one thing tend to like. This would be true of all OTT services. It’d also be true of social media platforms, high-level podcasting and media streaming services like YouTube. Companies know who they are delivering to. WWE would know how to present this to advertisers.


----------



## looper007

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Click on the users’ name
> 
> Go in their profile
> 
> There is a drop-down where you can choose ‘ignore’


It's a blessing on here cause you wouldn't be able to enjoy this place with the amount of "AEW are going out of business" and the "I'm a AEW fan but..." clan who clearly want to see the company fail. I think I put more on ignore on AEW section then I have on WWE section.

I still think the night of Double or nothing was one of the worse nights I had on here, I think I put a dozen people on here on ignore.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t see anything egregious about the calculations for the ad revenue, it’s just how it is applied. 

AEW and TNT need to be able to sell those spots at that alleged price. Right now, the demo is good. No one has said anything to the contrary. The viewership is also above water _for the moment_. I don’t see anyone talking about 900k or whatever as a bad number unless they’re comparing it to what other bad wrestling can do. Raw gets 2.14 with a fatiguing and bland presentation. Good wrestling should be able to beat that. But putting WWE completely to the side, 900k is a perfectly satisfactory number. _No one argues against this. _ What isn’t good is them going from 900k to 800k. And from 800k to 700k. And from 700k to 600k. Having a .4 demo isn’t going to save them then no matter how many hyperlinks Jonhern supplies which actually don’t say what he thinks they say. 

If Dynamite is only reaching 240k people in the demo, applying the numbers that Will & Grace gets, keeping in mind how vastly different a 22-minute sitcom and a two-hour wrestling show are perceived culturally (pretty apt Will & Grace was used since I’m pretty sure one of the lead actors in it came out and trashed wrestling) isn’t cogent. That might be reaching 1 million people in the same demo in a shorter window _in addition to_ another 2 million people from other demos with disposable income that AEW isn’t hitting as well as other options. 

If AEW makes $39 million a year off ads, super. That’s not the same as a rights deal though. And that’s not the same as being able to actually fuck with WWE’s shit, _which is how this conversation started_. I don’t think WWE cares if AEW makes $39 million off ad revenue. I think they care if AEW gets to sit at the table and be able to claim $100 million in TV rights which finally gives networks some leverage against Vince McMahon. 

*That is why it is important that NXT makes AEW look minor league.* And that is why the “You do realize they don’t care about NXT” argument doesn’t really hold water. Their rights fees next go around, which are basically holding the company up at this point, are on the line. Having to scale down those TV contracts in five years time is _deadly_ serious to Vince McMahon and WWE. The “it’s their third brand, they’re going to fuck them over” mentality isn’t pliable here, because the health of their third brand is the foundation for the perception of their others.

The people sitting around taking the Meltzer line (I like the guy, but he’s been so wrong about this) and sitting back twiddling their thumbs because they don’t think that declining viewership or viewership in comparison to NXT are going to be in for a rude shock. I’ve been saying it for months and I’ll say it after it happens: this was predictable. I’m not the one with my head in the sand.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Click on the users’ name
> 
> Go in their profile
> 
> There is a drop-down where you can choose ‘ignore’


Thank you for this.


----------



## rbl85

So i was right they didn't open the sections on the main camera side.

I knew something was strange.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> So i was right they didn't open the sections on the main camera side.
> 
> I knew something was strange.


Not strange, unlikely they would keep up with sell outs. Doing what wwe does to make sure it looks good on TV. Actually surprised how packed it looked. Looked to be at least 5k there and when the crowd is hot like that size is an afterthought. The fact they are doing similar numbers to wwe shouldn't be overlooked.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> Not strange, unlikely they would keep up with sell outs. Doing what wwe does to make sure it looks good on TV. Actually surprised how packed it looked. Looked to be at least 5k there and when the crowd is hot like that size is an afterthought. The fact they are doing similar numbers to wwe shouldn't be overlooked.


From my calculation it was more 6K than 5K.


----------



## Jonhern

My


rbl85 said:


> From my calculation it was more 6K than 5K.


That would be in line with other shows. Someone posted this link on Reddit. https://twitter.com/Laviemarg/status/1187797420639428612?s=09 
If last week and this week did 5-6k that's an average of 7300-7500 paid attendance in thier first 10 shows. 

For comparison, wwe average last quarter was 4400 in North America, however that includes house shows as well. Although they had a lot fewer house shows than last year and the numbers still went down. So I wouldn't be surprised if ppv, raw and sdl were doing similar numbers to aew.


----------



## The Wood

Jonhern said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So i was right they didn't open the sections on the main camera side.
> 
> I knew something was strange.
> 
> 
> 
> Not strange, unlikely they would keep up with sell outs. Doing what wwe does to make sure it looks good on TV. Actually surprised how packed it looked. Looked to be at least 5k there and when the crowd is hot like that size is an afterthought. The fact they are doing similar numbers to wwe shouldn't be overlooked.
Click to expand...

They’ve done just over a month in shows...they should be selling out.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Social media trends are still trending for AEW to be above NXT, we'll see how that translates to TV viewership, because the TV viewership correlation to social media isn't always on point.

Didn't seem to be much buzz for NXT even with the invasion angle and the show kicking off with The O.C, found that to be kind of surprising.


----------



## Brodus Clay

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Didn't seem to be much buzz for NXT even with the invasion angle and the show kicking off with The O.C, found that to be kind of surprising.


HHH being the leader kill any kind of novelty, casuals see it like another HHH angle and the NXt wrestlers like his thugs.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Brodus Clay said:


> HHH being the leader kill any kind of novelty, casuals see it like another HHH angle and the NXt wrestlers like his thugs.


idk, Like I agree with you on that, but the general consensus online seems to be that HHH is the lord and savior of WWE and will fix all of the problems in it.

I saw right through that bullshit, doubly so when they had Adam Cole beat Daniel Bryan only for HHH to come in 5 seconds later and make it all about him.


----------



## looper007

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Social media trends are still trending for AEW to be above NXT, we'll see how that translates to TV viewership, because the TV viewership correlation to social media isn't always on point.
> 
> Didn't seem to be much buzz for NXT even with the invasion angle and the show kicking off with The O.C, found that to be kind of surprising.


Still Trending here number 1 on Twitter, which is always a good sign.


----------



## Jonhern

Brodus Clay said:


> HHH being the leader kill any kind of novelty, casuals see it like another HHH angle and the NXt wrestlers like his thugs.


this kind of sums it up: https://www.kayfabenews.com/wwe-executive-leads-invasion-of-wwe-by-wwe-employees-on-wwe-television/


----------



## TKO Wrestling

NXT is a great show but they made a mistake not filling Smackdowns Tuesday slot with it. But ofcourse Vince just wants to hurt AEW, not really develop nXt. But man if he was just looking out for WWE only then the smart move would have been nXt Tuesday because Wednesday’s truly are AEW


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

looper007 said:


> It's a blessing on here cause you wouldn't be able to enjoy this place with the amount of "AEW are going out of business" and the "I'm a AEW fan but..." clan who clearly want to see the company fail. I think I put more on ignore on AEW section then I have on WWE section.
> 
> I still think the night of Double or nothing was one of the worse nights I had on here, I think I put a dozen people on here on ignore.


'I'm an AEW fan, but....' really gets my irish up

'I want AEW to succeed, but...' - but please only if you book it exactly like its in my head


----------



## BigCy

LifeInCattleClass said:


> 'I'm an AEW fan, but....' really gets my irish up
> 
> 'I want AEW to succeed, but...' - but please only if you book it exactly like its in my head


What, so people can't like something but still have criticisms about it?

"I like that my job pays the bills but...I don't like going in at 5am"
"I like vanilla ice cream but...I like chocolate better"

When people get upset over stuff like this I gotta wonder what kind of upbringing they had. It's ok for people to have different opinions, it really is, the ones that don't want to hear a contrary opinion on an almost nothing topic makes me think in reality they are insecure in themselves and in their opinions.


----------



## V-Trigger

BigCy said:


> What, so people can't like something but still have criticisms about it?
> 
> "I like that my job pays the bills but...I don't like going in at 5am"
> "I like vanilla ice cream but...I like chocolate better"
> 
> When people get upset over stuff like this I gotta wonder what kind of upbringing they had. It's ok for people to have different opinions, it really is, the ones that don't want to hear a contrary opinion on an almost nothing topic makes me think in reality they are insecure in themselves and in their opinions.


People can have opinions of course but most of the people that say things like that just want AEW to be WWE lite and cater to their fantasy booking.


----------



## fabi1982

To be honest, most of the guys here blocking "WWE shills" are the same guys going to the WWE section and laugh about everything. This actually makes me really mad, because you want to keep your precious AEW clean of "other opinions" but dont see any issue with ranting left and right in the WWE section. How does this play together?

I know where all the rage is coming from, but still if you want to do that in the WWE section, dont dictate others that they cant do it in the AEW section. And honestly guys like @Woods are called "blind marks" or "hater" just because you can´t handle someone calling "your child ugly"...That really gives a good image on how you guys are in real life.

EDIT: just look at all the Punk and Orton threads "oh this would be a game changer"...after they didnt go to AEW "who needs them, lame fuckers"...You just build your own reality...Coming from Germany I know how this ends...


----------



## kingfrass44

fabi1982 said:


> To be honest, most of the guys here blocking "WWE shills" are the same guys going to the WWE section and laugh about everything. This actually makes me really mad, because you want to keep your precious AEW clean of "other opinions" but dont see any issue with ranting left and right in the WWE section. How does this play together?
> 
> I know where all the rage is coming from, but still if you want to do that in the WWE section, dont dictate others that they cant do it in the AEW section. And honestly guys like @Woods are called "blind marks" or "hater" just because you can´t handle someone calling "your child ugly"...That really gives a good image on how you guys are in real life.
> 
> EDIT: just look at all the Punk and Orton threads "oh this would be a game changer"...after they didnt go to AEW "who needs them, lame fuckers"...You just build your own reality...Coming from Germany I know how this ends...


Jericho has said since day 1 that AEW was only interested in certain WWE guys and not everyone 
Stop considering opinions as facts
Just how many people said that doesn't mean everyone.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> To be honest, most of the guys here blocking "WWE shills" are the same guys going to the WWE section and laugh about everything. This actually makes me really mad, because you want to keep your precious AEW clean of "other opinions" but dont see any issue with ranting left and right in the WWE section. How does this play together?
> 
> I know where all the rage is coming from, but still if you want to do that in the WWE section, dont dictate others that they cant do it in the AEW section. And honestly guys like @Woods are called "blind marks" or "hater" just because you can´t handle someone calling "your child ugly"...That really gives a good image on how you guys are in real life.
> 
> EDIT: just look at all the Punk and Orton threads "oh this would be a game changer"...after they didnt go to AEW "who needs them, lame fuckers"...You just build your own reality...*Coming from Germany I know how this ends...*


Heil sir….i mean Aye sir.>

Seriously, some people here think that AEW should sign every WWE wrestlers who's contracts are over or close to being over. In a way they are asking AEW to do something that they hate WWE for : signing too much talent.


----------



## fabi1982

kingfrass44 said:


> Jericho has said since day 1 that AEW was only interested in certain WWE guys and not everyone
> Stop considering opinions as facts
> Just how many people said that doesn't mean everyone.


I´m not talking about what Jericho said or what anyone in AEW said, I talking about the deranged opinion of the "power users" here jumping on everyone´s bandwagon and then kicking him in the balls like Hager and then forbidding other opinions. But you just proved my point anyways.


----------



## rbl85

Ticketmaster is such a shitty company…

You have seats for Full Gear who are sold, they comeback then they're gone again.

There is a section on TM with only 10 seats (blue dots) missing and on StubHub you can by more than 15 seats on the same section….nothing make sense


----------



## Stinger Fan

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Social media trends are still trending for AEW to be above NXT, we'll see how that translates to TV viewership, because the TV viewership correlation to social media isn't always on point.
> 
> Didn't seem to be much buzz for NXT even with the invasion angle and the show kicking off with The O.C, found that to be kind of surprising.


That's part of the problem when you don't promote something. Surprises are nice, but had they promoted the OC , they might have gotten more attention. Unless they did and I'm completely out of the loop on that but that's likely why



rbl85 said:


> Ticketmaster is such a shitty company…
> 
> You have seats for Full Gear who are sold, they comeback then they're gone again.
> 
> There is a section on TM with only 10 seats (blue dots) missing and on StubHub you can by more than 15 seats on the same section….nothing make sense


Ticketmaster works kind of in this way, lets say you want section A, Row 1, seats 1 2 and 3. While you're checking out, they "hold" the seats for a few minutes so you can complete your order without someone sniping in ahead of you. If your timer runs out, you lose the tickets and they go back out for sale. Stubhub is a reseller and I don't recall them "holding" tickets while you check out so that's why you don't see them disappear and come back.


----------



## rbl85

Stinger Fan said:


> Ticketmaster works kind of in this way, lets say you want section A, Row 1, seats 1 2 and 3. While you're checking out, they "hold" the seats for a few minutes so you can complete your order without someone sniping in ahead of you. If your timer runs out, you lose the tickets and they go back out for sale. Stubhub is a reseller and I don't recall them "holding" tickets while you check out so that's why you don't see them disappear and come back.


Except that the seats on those sections came back after a few days, not a couple of minutes.

Also on those particular sections Stubhub have sold at least 20-30 tickets (i've been keeping track of it) which means that some seats who are still appearing on TM have been already sold to someone.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

BigCy said:


> What, so people can't like something but still have criticisms about it?
> 
> "I like that my job pays the bills but...I don't like going in at 5am"
> "I like vanilla ice cream but...I like chocolate better"
> 
> When people get upset over stuff like this I gotta wonder what kind of upbringing they had. It's ok for people to have different opinions, it really is, the ones that don't want to hear a contrary opinion on an almost nothing topic makes me think in reality they are insecure in themselves and in their opinions.


Let me share a bit of pop psychology with you.

You only ever listen to someone after they use the word 'but' - because that is how they truly feel

Anything before 'but' is just manipulation to either soften the blow or make them feel they are on your side or justify their own opinion

'I'm not racist, but...' 'I'm not saying she's a slut, but...'

This is true for everything in life

Criticism is always fine - when it is valid, impartial and something that legitimately can be changed. Anything else means simply what is being presented is not to your individual taste.

'The music is too soft' / 'they should not bring the dog out when there's pyro' / 'they might have too many roll-up wins' -- criticism 

'I am and AEW fan and I want them to succeed, BUT...I hate the Young Bucks and their flippy outlaw mudshow wrestling' (for example) is never a criticism... that is an opinion / and one that is largely unchangeable as that is their style

So what... now we have to keep on listening to the same 'opinions disguised as criticism 15 times a day'

nah


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Except that the seats on those sections came back after a few days, not a couple of minutes.
> 
> Also on those particular sections Stubhub have sold at least 20-30 tickets (i've been keeping track of it) which means that some seats who are still appearing on TM have been already sold to someone.


Are you sure about that, Stubhub only lists rows and sections, not actual seat numbers. could be different seats. Seats could come back because someone put an insurance claim too. I suspect some scalpers do this to get their money back if they don't sell.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> Are you sure about that, Stubhub only lists rows and sections, not actual seat numbers. could be different seats. Seats could come back because someone put an insurance claim too. I suspect some scalpers do this to get their money back if they don't sell.


Did you see the prices on StubHub ?

They'll need to bring those prices down if they want to sell them.


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> Seriously, some people here think that AEW should sign every WWE wrestlers who's contracts are over or close to being over. In a way they are asking AEW to do something that they hate WWE for : signing too much talent.


AEW will only go for talent that are awesome but have not been used to their full power in WWE (say for example The Revival Luke Harper or Aleister Black for example) or top talent that will get some eyes on their show (Sasha Banks, Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles for example type talent) those are the only types of talent I could see AEW going for from WWE.


----------



## Swan-San

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Let me share a bit of pop psychology with you.
> 
> You only ever listen to someone after they use the word 'but' - because that is how they truly feel
> 
> Anything before 'but' is just manipulation to either soften the blow or make them feel they are on your side or justify their own opinion
> 
> 'I'm not racist, but...' 'I'm not saying she's a slut, but...'
> 
> This is true for everything in life
> 
> Criticism is always fine - when it is valid, impartial and something that legitimately can be changed. Anything else means simply what is being presented is not to your individual taste.
> 
> 'The music is too soft' / 'they should not bring the dog out when there's pyro' / 'they might have too many roll-up wins' -- criticism
> 
> 'I am and AEW fan and I want them to succeed, BUT...I hate the Young Bucks and their flippy outlaw mudshow wrestling' (for example) is never a criticism... that is an opinion / and one that is largely unchangeable as that is their style
> 
> So what... now we have to keep on listening to the same 'opinions disguised as criticism 15 times a day'
> 
> nah


I don't understand why you're splitting opinion and criticism apart.

You do realise this is a wrestling forum? where people write their opinions on wrestling shows. It's not illegal to dislike AEW because it's not to your taste and write about why as a wrestling fan. The entry requirement for this forum isn't that you must be a fan or like it. it's also not illegal to not be offended by opinions that are different to yours and immediately cry "troll" or "I don't want to hear your opinion". 

Fair enough if someone is obviously trolling and insulting, but to say I hate this flippy shit give me more cody vs dustin etc for example, is an opinion. And the whole point of a forum is to communicate opinions, a forum is for opinions.

I'm a fan of wrestling and I want AEW to succeed and improve BUT I don't like most of what they've done so far and I think their hiring of talent and booking sucks. oh you like it? ok fair play, I don't, no problem. As this is the whole point of a forum...


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Swan-San said:


> I don't understand why you're splitting opinion and criticism apart.
> 
> You do realise this is a wrestling forum? where people write their opinions on wrestling shows. It's not illegal to dislike AEW because it's not to your taste and write about why as a wrestling fan. The entry requirement for this forum isn't that you must be a fan or like it. it's also not illegal to not be offended by opinions that are different to yours and immediately cry "troll" or "I don't want to hear your opinion".
> 
> Fair enough if someone is obviously trolling and insulting, but to say I hate this flippy shit give me more cody vs dustin etc for example, is an opinion. And the whole point of a forum is to communicate opinions, a forum is for opinions.
> 
> I'm a fan of wrestling and I want AEW to succeed and improve BUT I don't like most of what they've done so far and I think their hiring of talent and booking sucks. oh you like it? ok fair play, I don't, no problem. As this is the whole point of a forum...


Why in the world would I want to discuss something I like, with somebody that dislikes that same thing? (more than let’s say 5 times)

Will they like it more after I have given my view? Not likely. Will I like it less? Not likely

After the 5th chat - That just seems like a recipe for unhappiness - and life is way too short.

Don’t like it all you want, its no skin of my nose


----------



## Stinger Fan

rbl85 said:


> Except that the seats on those sections came back after a few days, not a couple of minutes.
> 
> Also on those particular sections Stubhub have sold at least 20-30 tickets (i've been keeping track of it) which means that some seats who are still appearing on TM have been already sold to someone.


Oh, then I have no clue what's going on then


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Stinger Fan said:


> Oh, then I have no clue what's going on then


People sometimes list their tickets multiple times on stubhub at different prices

That way when you snag the cheaper tix you think you have a bargain


----------



## Swan-San

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Why in the world would I want to discuss something I like, with somebody that dislikes that same thing? (more than let’s say 5 times)
> 
> Will they like it more after I have given my view? Not likely. Will I like it less? Not likely
> 
> After the 5th chat - That just seems like a recipe for unhappiness - and life is way too short.
> 
> Don’t like it all you want, its no skin of my nose


exactly. ignore it if you have nothing to say, the forum doesn't revolve around you. There may be someone else with the same opinion in the forum who would want to, like I said the rule of the forum isn't that you have to like everything or anything.

This isn't directed at you but at everyone who complains at people who don't like the product that I keep on reading, it's silly.


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Social media trends are still trending for AEW to be above NXT, we'll see how that translates to TV viewership, because the TV viewership correlation to social media isn't always on point.
> 
> Didn't seem to be much buzz for NXT even with the invasion angle and the show kicking off with The O.C, found that to be kind of surprising.


 The OC aren't over and are an embarrassment to the BC brand. AEW is going to stomp NXT this week by 200-300k like it normally does.

They're booked to look like idiots every other week, are presented like a midcard fodder and is dragging AJ down to their level. This isn't the least bit surprising.

It's like asking fans to take the League of Nations seriously or to move numbers, it ain't going to happen.

AJ needs to cut those anchors loose and go solo again.


----------



## Ace

lmao, it was actually close? :lmao

At least AEW still won.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

I never understood why the OC even re-signed. They’re never used


----------



## Jonhern

AEW .35 Demo, 822k 8th
NXT .30 Demo 813K 12th


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ace said:


> lmao, it was actually close? <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="" title="ROFLMAO" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> At least AEW still won.


it was? Wow!


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Jonhern said:


> AEW .35 Demo, 822k 8th
> NXT .30 Demo 813K 12th


horrible numbers! Oh well, guess people lost interest. AEW at least got top 10 for the 7th week in a row


----------



## AEWMoxley

822K is incredibly disappointing. Way too small of a bump from last week.

About what you'd expect when their biggest star only has 2 minutes of TV time.


----------



## raymond1985

That's a terrible number for AEW. Sadly, it looks like the promotion is faltering. 

I hope to be wrong.


----------



## Jedah

Whoa. They only recovered about 100k from the World Series. That isn't good news, especially for a go home. NXT came far closer than I expected they would. Now, did those extra viewers take away from AEW? The closeness in the demo suggests yes.

The audience came back after the World Series but not all to AEW.



Ace said:


> The OC aren't over and are an embarrassment to the BC brand. AEW is going to stomp NXT this week by 200-300k like it normally does.


Yeah, this faction has totally killed AJ this year. Absolutely useless.


----------



## Ace

Those are disappointing numbers for both shows tbh.

I expected AEW to settle around 920k, but they're 100k below it.

NXT with the invasion stuff still unable to do a big number and beat AEW.


----------



## Death Rider

Ratings back up as predicted, I think NXT ate into AEW for sure after a good Smackdown and the NXT invasion having hype. Once again people panicing as always. Good and bad week tbh. Ratings going back up but NXT very close too


----------



## RubberbandGoat

raymond1985 said:


> That's a terrible number for AEW. Sadly, it looks like the promotion is faltering.
> 
> I hope to be wrong.


yep. Faltering so much that no other TNT show gets top 10 consistently every week. Very much faltering. Looks like they’ll be out of business in a month. Can’t have those top 10 ratings. That’s awful!


----------



## Jedah

NXT looks like it took some of AEW's natural audience due to the Survivor Series bump. The demo was close.

So we now might have to wait a few more weeks until after Survivor Series to see what happens. I don't think NXT will stay this high.


----------



## Ace

Death Rider said:


> Ratings back up as predicted, I think NXT ate into AEW for sure after a good Smackdown and the NXT invasion having hype. Once again people panicing as always. Good and bad week tbh. Ratings going back up but NXT very close too


That's a good point, NXT might have taken viewers away from AEW this week.


----------



## raymond1985

RubberbandGoat said:


> yep. Faltering so much that no other TNT show gets top 10 consistently every week. Very much faltering. Looks like they’ll be out of business in a month. Can’t have those top 10 ratings. That’s awful!


Of course they won't go out of business.

But it really looked like the promotion had NXT in its back pocket after week 1. Now, they are virtually identical in viewership. 

AEW has lost almost half its audience since episode 1.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Eh the number ain’t so bad. AEW once again killing expectations. TNT is happy. Be honest, WWE isn’t setting the world on fire so don’t act like it is.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

NXT fails to win with all that WWE hype. :heston


----------



## Ace

raymond1985 said:


> Of course they won't go out of business.
> 
> But it really looked like the promotion had NXT in its back pocket after week 1. Now, they are virtually identical in viewership.
> 
> AEW has lost almost half its audience since episode 1.


That was due to the invasion angle they ran, NXT will drop unless they promote main roster stars appearing on NXT.

NXT will settle around high 600s.

AEW probably around 800 to early 900 range.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

raymond1985 said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> yep. Faltering so much that no other TNT show gets top 10 consistently every week. Very much faltering. Looks like they’ll be out of business in a month. Can’t have those top 10 ratings. That’s awful!
> 
> 
> 
> Of course they won't go out of business.
> 
> But it really looked like the promotion had NXT in its back pocket after week 1. Now, they are virtually identical in viewership.
> 
> AEW has lost almost half its audience since episode 1.
Click to expand...

omg! So you’re only counting live viewing? We live in an age where less and less people watch TV. People stream. Threes more viewers with streaming putting in. AEW ends up doubling their audience with streaming every week. Can you please stop only assuming live viewing matters! It doesn’t.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

TNT replays AEW multiple times a week. They’re very happy with it


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DAMN, that's neck and neck, main roster promotion definitely helped them out.


----------



## Joe Gill

Tony needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who cheer for the same pointless random dives by the flippy dudes. Casual fans arent interested in that...... they want DRAMA. MJF should have his own segment.... more in ring promos... more shoot interviews...more brawls. No one cares about female japanese wresltling or midgets doing ballet. More Moxley, more MJF, more Jericho. 

Give the fans drama and controversy... quit pandering to the geeks who like to go "ooooooh" when someone kicks out of a finisher 10 times during a match.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Actually maybe it will get cancelled soon. Damn top 10 demo. Can’t have that!


----------



## looper007

I said NXT would get a viewer pump from the invasion angle, people were going to tune in after Smackdown and even Raw.

Good upturn for AEW.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RubberbandGoat said:


> Eh the number ain’t so bad. AEW once again killing expectations. TNT is happy. Be honest, WWE isn’t setting the world on fire so don’t act like it is.


Of course TNT is happy. They are paying AEW peanuts on this current TV deal. 

The problem will come when it's time to negotiate a new deal. AEW won't break even for the foreseeable future, and that's fine, as most new companies don't. However, several years down the line, once the deal is up, Tony Khan will expect the company to start making a consistent profit. This will require a much better TV deal than they currently have, and that will only come if their ratings are much higher than they are now. Otherwise, Tony will have to finance the company out of his own pocket. Good luck with that.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Joe Gill said:


> Tony needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who cheer for the same pointless random dives by the flippy dudes. Casual fans arent interested in that...... they want DRAMA. MJF should have his own segment.... more in ring promos... more shoot interviews...more brawls. No one cares about female japanese wresltling or midgets doing ballet. More Moxley, more MJF, more Jericho.
> 
> Give the fans drama and controversy... quit pandering to the geeks who like to go "ooooooh" when someone kicks out of a finisher 10 times during a match.


Agreed.

MJF is barely ever on TV. Moxley has been on TV for about 7 minutes combined in the last two weeks.

The geeks that they are currently featuring aren't cutting it.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

AEWMoxley said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Eh the number ain’t so bad. AEW once again killing expectations. TNT is happy. Be honest, WWE isn’t setting the world on fire so don’t act like it is.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course TNT is happy. They are paying AEW peanuts on this current TV deal.
> 
> The problem will come when it's time to negotiate a new deal. AEW won't break even for the foreseeable future, and that's fine, as most new companies don't. However, several years down the line, once the deal is up, Tony Khan will expect the company to start making a consistent profit. This will require a much better TV deal than they currently have, and that will only come if their ratings are much higher than they are now. Otherwise, Tony will have to finance the company out of his own pocket. Good luck with that.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? Do you not know how TV works? They have top 10 ratings every Wednesday. TNT doesn’t have a consistent performer like that. You’re telling me AEW will have a hard time getting a new TV deal after being consistent like that? Such an idiot! Are you being serious? Other shows on cable would love that every week. You’re killing me with your ignorance. You think they’ll have trouble re-upping their deal. Omg I can’t stop laughing! This takes the cake!


----------



## Joe Gill

AEW is relying heavy on the tv ratings. they only have 4 ppvs a year and arent doing any house shows....no other tv deals...no network.....its all about the tv ratings and they will not be able to justify putting on a high production show with quality talent unless they draw huge ratings. Its not looking good when you are already below a million.

Im not sure what TNT has on mondays but I would love to see AEW switch to monday nights after the nfl regular season ends.... going head to head with raw is the only way to create some mainstream buzz... not by competing with the 3rd show for WWE. On top of that Vince would go buts if AEW cut into RAWs ratings.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RubberbandGoat said:


> WTF are you talking about? Do you not know how TV works? They have top 10 ratings every Wednesday. TNT doesn’t have a consistent performer like that. You’re telling me AEW will have a hard time getting a new TV deal after being consistent like that? Such an idiot! Are you being serious? Other shows on cable would love that every week. You’re killing me with your ignorance. You think they’ll have trouble re-upping their deal. Omg I can’t stop laughing! This takes the cake!


My mistake. I should have known better than to reply to an autistic individual.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

AEWMoxley said:


> Agreed.
> 
> MJF is barely ever on TV. Moxley has been on TV for about 7 minutes combined in the last two weeks.
> 
> The geeks that they are currently featuring aren't cutting it.


The women's wrestling is god awful as well. 

Can easily cut the women out and instead give that time to MJF, for example

.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Omg at least when you troll. Try to sound smart. Ha ha AEW will have trouble getting a new deal! I can’t anymore lol I can’t stop laughing lol


----------



## HankHill_85

Holy fuck, NXT basically gets *FREE* advertising by being featured predominantly across Smackdown and Raw, with the former being lauded as one of the best episodes of main roster WWE television in a long time, and they STILL couldn't eek out a Wednesday night win against AEW?

Damn, that's cold. I completely expected a first-time victory for NXT in the "war".

Congrats to AEW on another win. Loved the show last night and Cody's promo was absolute fucking *FIRE*.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

AEW clearly needs to go bag Russo right now and reel in all those millions of casual viewers to SAVE THIS SINKING SHIP BEFORE ITS TOO LATE!!!




/snark


----------



## looper007

Ace said:


> That's a good point, NXT might have taken viewers away from AEW this week.


Even a few on here said they were going to watch NXT ahead of AEW cause of the invasion stuff. Didn't you watch NXT last night, and I've seen a few others who usually watch AEW watch NXT instead. 

For me it get more interesting once Survivor Series thing comes to a end and we'll see how the ratings go then. not shocked by big boost for NXT.


----------



## RiverFenix

Not great - NXT almost beat them what 5 weeks in? Hopefully Dynamite gets a boost next week coming off a PPV, and a hot go home show this week. Quarter hour H2H's would be interesting.


----------



## NascarStan

Not gonna lie I was hoping for AEW to atleast top 900k but on the bright side even with the NXT invasion angle AEW still won in the ratings.

As long as AEW can build on this number then it's fine, the post Full Gear show should do a pretty good number


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

6/6 roud

TNT really does need to allow an overrun because *N*eeds e*X*tra *T*ime is killing them there.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

looper007 said:


> Ace said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a good point, NXT might have taken viewers away from AEW this week.
> 
> 
> 
> Even a few on here said they were going to watch NXT ahead of AEW cause of the invasion stuff. Didn't you watch NXT last night, and I've seen a few others who usually watch AEW watch NXT instead.
> 
> For me it get more interesting once Survivor Series thing comes to a end and we'll see how the ratings go then. not shocked by big boost for NXT.
Click to expand...

werent you surprised that only the OC showed up? Why wasn’t it a full on invasion on NXT? Now they might be regretting that


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
0.822M [31st] [ + 0.063M | + 8.30% ]
0.350D [8th] [ + 0.020D | + 6.06% ]

AEW | NXT:
0.822M | 0.813M [ + 0.009M | + 1.11% ]
0.350D | 0.300D [ + 0.050D | + 16.67% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.635M [ + 0.296M | + 22.11% ]
0.650D [ + 0.140D | + 27.45% ]*


----------



## AEWMoxley

RubberbandGoat said:


> Omg at least when you troll. Try to sound smart. Ha ha AEW will have trouble getting a new deal! I can’t anymore lol I can’t stop laughing lol


It's not about them getting a new deal, little guy. TNT will be more than happy to give them the exact same deal that they have now. AEW is getting paid peanuts right now, but they will need a way bigger deal after this one is up for them to be profitable.

Let me know if you need me to draw you a diagram to make it easier for you to understand.


----------



## Joe Gill

RubberbandGoat said:


> WTF are you talking about? Do you not know how TV works? They have top 10 ratings every Wednesday. TNT doesn’t have a consistent performer like that. You’re telling me AEW will have a hard time getting a new TV deal after being consistent like that? Such an idiot! Are you being serious? Other shows on cable would love that every week. You’re killing me with your ignorance. You think they’ll have trouble re-upping their deal. Omg I can’t stop laughing! This takes the cake!


Do you know how expensive it is to run a wrestling company that pays the wrestlers top dollars and has high production value? If the ratings dont increase the revenue AEW generates will not be high enough to justify signing guys like Jericho to lucrative deals. Bottom line is AEW needs more eyeballs.. otherwise they will become the next TNA.


----------



## Ace

looper007 said:


> Even a few on here said they were going to watch NXT ahead of AEW cause of the invasion stuff. Didn't you watch NXT last night, and I've seen a few others who usually watch AEW watch NXT instead.
> 
> For me it get more interesting once Survivor Series thing comes to a end and we'll see how the ratings go then. not shocked by big boost for NXT.


 Eh, the OC fucking sucks and drag AJ down to geek level. 

I only tuned in for AJ and he didn't even do anything, he actually got his ass kicked for most of the match.

If HHH is going to book main roster guys like that on NXT, no point tuning in.

The main roster guys are the ones getting viewers to watch and if you're treating them as enhancement talent for NXT who is going to watch? You're only hurting those main roster guys by geeking them out to developmental stars. There's a fine balance between protecting your stars and getting over NXT guys, I don't trust WWE to find that.


----------



## looper007

RubberbandGoat said:


> werent you surprised that only the OC showed up? Why wasn’t it a full on invasion on NXT? Now they might be regretting that


I definitely expecting a lot more then just the OC and I'm sure a lot who watched NXT over AEW probably were too. I thought the likes of Rollins, Reigns, Bryan, Becky might have invaded the show. It was good show but not as amazing as I thought it would be.

For me once the whole Survivor series is over, NXT goes down again imo.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Joe Gill said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> WTF are you talking about? Do you not know how TV works? They have top 10 ratings every Wednesday. TNT doesn’t have a consistent performer like that. You’re telling me AEW will have a hard time getting a new TV deal after being consistent like that? Such an idiot! Are you being serious? Other shows on cable would love that every week. You’re killing me with your ignorance. You think they’ll have trouble re-upping their deal. Omg I can’t stop laughing! This takes the cake!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how expensive it is to run a wrestling company that pays the wrestlers top dollars and has high production value? If the ratings dont increase the revenue AEW generates will not be high enough to justify signing guys like Jericho to lucrative deals. Bottom line is AEW needs more eyeballs.. otherwise they will become the next TNA.
Click to expand...

omg out of 150 shows on cable they get top 10 every week and you’re telling me you think they’ll struggle? Omg! Bunch of idiots. You guys have never worked in the business world. Bunch of naive kids in here. Newsflash: they’re doing just fine. Go back to watching cartoons


----------



## Balor fan

Ok I am gonna cut the crap and tell it like it is. This is terrible for AEW. Horrible numbers. If a developmental show like NXT beats them in ratings in the coming weeks, that would be the pathetic for AEW. They need to do something drastic starting next week.


----------



## looper007

Ace said:


> Eh, the OC fucking sucks and drag AJ down to geek level.
> 
> I only tuned in for AJ and he didn't even do anything, he actually got his ass kicked for most of the match.
> 
> If HHH is going to book main roster guys like that on NXT, no point tuning in.
> 
> The main roster guys are the ones getting viewers to watch and if you're treating them as enhancement talent for NXT? Who is going to watch? You're only hurting those main roster guys by geeking them out to developmental stars.


You and others still tuned in though cause you were expecting a ton of shit to go down. They tricked everyone who turned over that they were in for a major invasion.


----------



## Bosnian21

Balor fan said:


> Ok I am gonna cut the crap and tell it like it is. This is terrible for AEW. Horrible numbers. If a developmental show like NXT beats them in ratings in the coming weeks, that would be the pathetic for AEW. They need to do something drastic starting next week.


Nah. 

And I guess AJ Styles and Finn Balor are developmental talent?


----------



## RubberbandGoat

looper007 said:


> RubberbandGoat said:
> 
> 
> 
> werent you surprised that only the OC showed up? Why wasn’t it a full on invasion on NXT? Now they might be regretting that
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely expecting a lot more then just the OC and I'm sure a lot who watched NXT over AEW probably were too. I thought the likes of Rollins, Reigns, Bryan, Becky might have invaded the show. It was good show but not as amazing as I thought it would be.
> 
> For me once the whole Survivor series is over, NXT goes down again imo.
Click to expand...

the trolls in here are making my blood boil. AEW might outlast NXT because NXT is actually in cancellation territory. No top 10 weeks for them since the debut.


----------



## Ace

Balor fan said:


> Ok I am gonna cut the crap and tell it like it is. This is terrible for AEW. Horrible numbers. If a developmental show like NXT beats them in ratings in the coming weeks, that would be the pathetic for AEW. They need to do something drastic starting next week.


They put their developmental champion over Daniel Bryan, they're trying their best to some how win this war.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

Joe Gill said:


> Tony needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who cheer for the same pointless random dives by the flippy dudes. Casual fans arent interested in that...... they want DRAMA. MJF should have his own segment.... more in ring promos... more shoot interviews...more brawls. No one cares about female japanese wresltling or midgets doing ballet. More Moxley, more MJF, more Jericho.
> 
> Give the fans drama and controversy... quit pandering to the geeks who like to go "ooooooh" when someone kicks out of a finisher 10 times during a match.


I'm guessing you already forgot the amazing reactions those "geeks" were giving Cody and the ending segment as well, didn't you?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Post-Modern Devil said:


> I'm guessing you already forgot the amazing reactions those "geeks" were giving Cody and the ending segment as well, didn't you?


Those crowd reactions will surely bring in the big bucks.


----------



## Dark Emperor

WOW, these are terrible numbers for the go home show to a major PPV. I see AEW fans trying to spin this as a positive as usual because it eeked out a win over NXT. Remember the same NXT that AEW smashed to bits in week one and we all laughed at the 'it's a marathon, not a sprint comment. Well seems like there more truth to that. Worst of all, they lost some of the 'young and hip demo' AEW fans have been boasting about to NXT. 

Unless they make a big signing, this show ain't seeing 1m viewers anytime soon.


----------



## Ace

Bosnian21 said:


> Nah.
> 
> And I guess AJ Styles and Finn Balor are developmental talent?


 AJ got his ass kicked by developmental talent.

They're doing their best to win this war, the hilarious thing is they started this war only to eat shit each week. This week included.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Joe Gill said:


> AEW is relying heavy on the tv ratings. they only have 4 ppvs a year and arent doing any house shows....no other tv deals...no network.....its all about the tv ratings and they will not be able to justify putting on a high production show with quality talent unless they draw huge ratings. Its not looking good when you are already below a million.
> 
> Im not sure what TNT has on mondays but I would love to see AEW switch to monday nights after the nfl regular season ends.... going head to head with raw is the only way to create some mainstream buzz... not by competing with the 3rd show for WWE. On top of that Vince would go buts if AEW cut into RAWs ratings.


Are you high? Have you been following any of this since AEW’s inception? Do you have the slightest clue why AEW is in existence? 

Let’s spell it out AGAIN. 

AEW does not want to take down WWE, they want to be an alternative to WWE. 
AEW does not want WWE’s loyal viewers, they want the wrestling fans who have stopped watching wrestling because of the steaming pile of shit WWE has become.
AEW is NOT OUT TO BEAT WWE’S RATINGS. 
AEW does not have to beat WWE in any way, shape or form in order to be successful. AEW doesn’t even necessarily have to beat NXT.
All AEW has to do is remain popular enough to keep getting consistently decent ratings to keep TNT happy with their modest investment so they can stay on the network. Which is exactly what they’re doing.


----------



## rbl85

For the people saying they should do house shows, remember that they will likely loose money if they did some house shows.

Also one thing they could do to hurt NXT would be to do an overun.

It will be interesting to see what happen next week because NXT will not be able to appear live on RAW and Smackdown.

To finish, NXT will probably beat AEW in 2 weeks (go home show for Wargames and Survivor series)


----------



## Balor fan

Bosnian21 said:


> Nah.
> 
> And I guess AJ Styles and Finn Balor are developmental talent?


They are not but NXT still is a developmental show in a tiny arena. It will be a damn shame if they beat AEW in ratings. 

The first mistake was to put that title on old ass Jericho who was relevant 17 years ago. Mox was hot as hell and shoulda put the title on him straight away. What AEW did was the equalent of putting the title on Natalya instead of Rousey when Rousey came in hot. Real stupid move by AEW.

Now Cody has to win the title from Jericho and put Mox in the title picture.


----------



## looper007

I love how the trolls are not mentioning NXT getting massive promotion on the A and B shows in WWE lol. "It's a disaster they are finished" get out of here.


----------



## RapShepard

An 8 thousand fan loss is hilarious. Essentially an entire arena worth of people decided "nah I'm watching AEW" lol.


----------



## Joe Gill

how long before the Dark episodes on youtube beat the actual TNT ratings? some of the episodes have over a million views....granted that includes repeat viewers and global audience...but the fact that dark matches involving mostly jobbers get nearly as many eyeballs as the main show is further proof that TV is practically dead...especially for the 18-49 demo.


----------



## looper007

Balor fan said:


> They are not but NXT still is a developmental show in a tiny arena. It will be a damn shame if they beat AEW in ratings.
> 
> The first mistake was to put that title on old ass Jericho who was relevant 17 years ago. Mox was hot as hell and shoulda put the title on him straight away. What AEW did was the equalent of putting the title on Natalya instead of Rousey when Rousey came in hot. Real stupid move by AEW.
> 
> Now Cody has to win the title from Jericho and put Mox in the title picture.



So all that promotion on RAW and Smackdown didn't mean a thing then. Going over some top stars didn't do a thing and perk up some interest. The fact NXT is a part of the biggest Wrestling business don't have a thing to do with it.

And I won't even answer the gibberish after that about Jericho, god you trolls can't even be funny anymore.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Welp, looks like AEW will be out of business by the end of the year.


Am I doing it right?


----------



## rbl85

I think we should he happy that both wrestling shows were up this week, i mean i don't want any of those shows to fail.

Also it's funny that the trolls on this forum are the ones with the less numbers of posts


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> how long before the Dark episodes on youtube beat the actual TNT ratings? some of the episodes have over a million views....granted that includes repeat viewers and global audience...but the fact that dark matches involving mostly jobbers get nearly as many eyeballs as the main show is further proof that TV is practically dead...especially for the 18-49 demo.


Dark = world

Dynamite = US


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Joe Gill said:


> how long before the Dark episodes on youtube beat the actual TNT ratings? some of the episodes have over a million views....granted that includes repeat viewers and global audience...but the fact that dark matches involving mostly jobbers get nearly as many eyeballs as the main show is further proof that TV is practically dead...especially for the 18-49 demo.


You can’t be serious. 


I think it’s time to add to The List.


----------



## looper007

I can I ask has this Balor fan ever been on AEW forum before. I never seen him around. These hardcore WWE marks coming in and speaking about a show they don't watch is funny to me.


----------



## patpat

Nxt didnt beat aew...
Wtf?


----------



## Joe Gill

NXT ratings are irrelevant. WWE is a cash cow right now... they have enormous revenue streams from the RAW and Smackdown deals, network subcriptions, Saudi shows etc.. they can afford to take a loss on NXT. AEW does not have that luxury... if they dont get higher ratings they will not be able to re-sign guys like page and mjf in a few years unless Khan family is ok with losing boatloads of money.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

I don't know what people are panicking for. Numbers seem good to me. Hell, they went up. What's the problem?


----------



## The XL 2

I really enjoyed AEW yesterday, but anyone trying to spin those numbers as anything other than worrisome are kidding themselves. WWE has finally found a formula to put NXT on equal footing with AEW. And I figured AEW would settle in at 1 mil, 800K is pretty low


----------



## Britz94xD

I reckon they'll do 200K buys at Full Gear and the next Dynamite will get bumped back up to a million viewers.

They'll feel super hot by Saturday.


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> NXT ratings are irrelevant. WWE is a cash cow right now... they have enormous revenue streams from the RAW and Smackdown deals, network subcriptions, Saudi shows etc.. they can afford to take a loss on NXT. AEW does not have that luxury... if they dont get higher ratings they will not be able to re-sign guys like page and mjf in a few years unless Khan family is ok with losing boatloads of money.


Doing more or less than NXT doesn't change anything money-wise.


----------



## rbl85

The XL 2 said:


> I really enjoyed AEW yesterday, but anyone trying to spin those numbers as anything other than worrisome are kidding themselves. WWE has finally found a formula to put NXT on equal footing with AEW. And I figured AEW would settle in at 1 mil, 800K is pretty low


This formula will end in 2 weeks.


----------



## Balor fan

looper007 said:


> So all that promotion on RAW and Smackdown didn't mean a thing then. Going over some top stars didn't do a thing and perk up some interest. The fact NXT is a part of the biggest Wrestling business don't have a thing to do with it.
> 
> And I won't even answer the gibberish after that about Jericho, god you trolls can't even be funny anymore.


I am tired of people calling others trolls just because they have a differing opinion. 

Look I couldn't give 2 shits about what NXT did or didn't do. Its not like AEW pulled in over 1 million viewers and NXT came close due to massive promotion. NxT's numbers are still shit.

What I am saying is its failure on AEW's part to maintain altleast 1 million viewers. They lost like 600,000 viewers in 6 weeks. That's obscene. If AEW consistently had 1M viewers every week, none of this would matter.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

The XL 2 said:


> I really enjoyed AEW yesterday, but anyone trying to spin those numbers as anything other than worrisome are kidding themselves. WWE has finally found a formula to put NXT on equal footing with AEW. And I figured AEW would settle in at 1 mil, 800K is pretty low


Yeah, but can it last? This is great for a Survivor Series program, but once that’s over, and the novelty wears off, they’d better be hoping that rub works on the NXT roster once it’s over because they’ll have to fly solo.

While I’m not too worried, AEW should be on an upswing soon, post-PPV and hoping some news comes out of that to get people to tune in. They’ve still exceeded expectations, but yeah, they shouldn’t be going any lower or NXT will surpass them, or they’ll get dragged down to NXT-level ratings.

But we’re not there yet.


----------



## Stylebender

Joe Gill said:


> NXT ratings are irrelevant. WWE is a cash cow right now... they have enormous revenue streams from the RAW and Smackdown deals, network subcriptions, Saudi shows etc.. they can afford to take a loss on NXT. AEW does not have that luxury... if they dont get higher ratings they will not be able to re-sign guys like page and mjf in a few years unless Khan family is ok with losing boatloads of money.



At the end of the day its all about interest. Wwe has the luxury of 40 years of built in equity but they are on the way down. Aew are on the up and you dont go out of business on the way up. Give it a decade and with how many people are tuning out of wwe I could easily see aew replacing them. Without the interest fox and usa will not resign. Hundreads of milions gone. Without the interest they lose network subs (100k subs equals one milion usd per month) then the ticket sales suffer, the merch suffers and all they have left is shitty wwe films and 2k30. When the interest fades everything goes down.


----------



## looper007

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't know what people are panicking for. Numbers seem good to me. Hell, they went up. What's the problem?


It was to be expected with the ton of promotion NXT got, I said it with the thread I did that NXT was going to get a ratings bump. Why are some shocked by that. It probably be the same next week and up until after Survivor Series.


----------



## ClintDagger

Really enjoyed last night’s show and I like what AEW is doing. They’re doing the little things and paying attention to details which WWE just refuses to do. That’s a disappointing number especially since I think AEW has done really well at building their PPV. I honestly didn’t think NXT could make this a horse race so soon. Actually, I didn’t think they’d ever make it close.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Joe Gill said:


> how long before the Dark episodes on youtube beat the actual TNT ratings? some of the episodes have over a million views....*granted that includes repeat viewers and global audience*...but the fact that dark matches involving mostly jobbers get nearly as many eyeballs as the main show is further proof that TV is practically dead...especially for the 18-49 demo.



Then why even ask the question?


You really trying to compare viewership on a free platform with a global audience and unlimited viewing to a domestic cable network?


I tell ya. These ratings threads bring out some real gems.


----------



## Zappers

RubberbandGoat said:


> TNT replays AEW multiple times a week. They’re very happy with it


Correct.

And NXT gets multiple replays on various channels. Including Spanish speaking channels. Plus they stream it on their own network of 1.5 million plus dedicated subscribers. Many of which still only watch NXT on the service and not the USA channel which is the reason(it was part of the deal) why it's available the next night as opposed to waiting weeks like RAW/SD to appease those fans.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Britz94xD said:


> I reckon they'll do 200K buys at Full Gear and the next Dynamite will get bumped back up to a million viewers.
> 
> They'll feel super hot by Saturday.


They will be lucky to do 100K buys. The TV ratings consistently going down shows that there's not much interest in the current product.

Cody vs Jericho was a dead main event the moment it was announced, and has generated exactly zero buzz.

Moxley vs Omega hype was killed the night they decided to put Pac over Omega, and further destroyed once they ensured that the match doesn't even count, as per the "lights out" rule.

The rest of the card is garbage.

They will need to reset after Full Gear, and as I've been saying for a while, they will need to feature Moxley and MJF a lot more each episode. If that doesn't help, then nothing will, but at least you'll be going down with your best characters who are in their prime.


----------



## rbl85

looper007 said:


> It was to be expected with the ton of promotion NXT got, I said it with the thread I did that NXT was going to get a ratings bump. Why are some shocked by that. It probably be the same next week and up until after Survivor Series.


Next week i don't think it's going to be up because with european Tour they'll lave less promotion.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Smackdown was already in Europe, lets not forget they haven't got their payback. If Vince looks at those numbers the obvious next step is to send in Roman, Braun, Bryan, etc next week and try to top AEW while the angle is still hot. Would it last? Probably not, but it would be on paper.

But a lot of people in here are right, I think the show is good, but it needs a LOT more MJF, Moxley, etc, and way less Japanese women in mustaches wrestling for 20 minutes. I mean, that shit is stupid. Where is Sadie Gibbs? Penelope? Hell, cant they sign fucking Jazz again? I mean what the fuck? A guy like Pac should be beating Trent in 5 minutes. The Dark Order is a terrible fucking idea, stop. Again, the matches are just way too long when they shouldn't be, and they ALL FEEL THE SAME. A flip dive loses its luster once you see 10 of them in 2 hours. I dont think Private Party did one wrestling move. What happened to a bodyslam? An elbow drop? A neckbreaker? Working a body part? All these guys work the exact same match. Its boring. They need an ass kicking WRESTLER like Benoit, or Angle. Pac can be this, but even he is getting sucked into this style. 

More Mox, more MJF, more women who can appeal to a broad audience (not just people with STARDOM subscriptions) and less wrestling (if you can call it that) just to wrestle.


----------



## domotime2

Is there ANY way of looking at these ratings with +3, DVR, etc. I don't understand how these ratings actually correlate ANYTHING these days. I haven't watched wrestling LIVE in years.


----------



## Joe Gill

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Are you high? Have you been following any of this since AEW’s inception? Do you have the slightest clue why AEW is in existence?
> 
> Let’s spell it out AGAIN.
> 
> AEW does not want to take down WWE, they want to be an alternative to WWE.
> AEW does not want WWE’s loyal viewers, they want the wrestling fans who have stopped watching wrestling because of the steaming pile of shit WWE has become.
> AEW is NOT OUT TO BEAT WWE’S RATINGS.
> AEW does not have to beat WWE in any way, shape or form in order to be successful. AEW doesn’t even necessarily have to beat NXT.
> All AEW has to do is remain popular enough to keep getting consistently decent ratings to keep TNT happy with their modest investment so they can stay on the network. Which is exactly what they’re doing.


does AEW have a network? do they have a touring house show? do they have a monthly ppv? do they have multiple tv deals? the answer is no to all of those. they are relying heavy on the TNT deal to justify a high payroll and production value. 
if all they are doing is going after old wwe fans thats not going to cut it.... there arent enough of them around to justify paying likes like Jericho 7 figure deals or spending lots of money on high production value. They have aleady lost nearly half of their viewers from the debut... and there was no competition this week from baseball playoffs. 
WWE is only getting 50 million dollars for NXT which has only slightly less viewers than dynamite. 

you guys dont get it.... Tony and his family know how lucrative TV can be if you deliver big ratings like the NFL does.... AEWs ratings are already pretty low and on a downward trend... its not a good sign period.


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> Next week i don't think it's going to be up because with european Tour they'll lave less promotion.


I think this is the highest it will get, the whole invasion thing will lose it's steam as for most fan's they move on quickly and after last night with the OC only showing up, fan's will feel a bit let down there wasn't more. I do think the week coming up to SS, will be interesting. I could see them beating AEW in the ratings then. Then after that it be back to the same old same old.


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> does AEW have a network? *do they have a touring house show*? do they have a monthly ppv? do they have multiple tv deals? the answer is no to all of those. they are relying heavy on the TNT deal to justify a high payroll and production value.
> .


WWE is loosing a lot of money because of those house shows so….


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> This formula will end in 2 weeks.


Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You guys are hoping it does so you can beat your chests in here.


----------



## Joe Gill

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> Then why even ask the question?
> 
> 
> You really trying to compare viewership on a free platform with a global audience and unlimited viewing to a domestic cable network?
> 
> 
> I tell ya. These ratings threads bring out some real gems.


because reach matters? because maybe Tony underestimated just how many cord cutters there are? because maybe its a sign that even though there might be a lot of old school wrestling fans out there you might not be able to monetize them enough to justify high production value? 

if you dont think Tony is evaluating these things you have no clue how the business model has evolved... and this is a ratings thread so why not compare online eyeballs to cable tv eyeballs?


----------



## rbl85

looper007 said:


> I think this is the highest it will get, the whole invasion thing will lose it's steam as for most fan's they move on quickly and after last night with the OC only showing up, fan's will feel a bit let down there wasn't more. I do think the week coming up to SS, will be interesting. I could see them beating AEW in the ratings then. Then after that it be back to the same old same old.


NXT will AEW the week of Survivor series, no doubt.


----------



## Stylebender

This is really sad I think because I realise now the hype around aew is dying down. Alot of those first shows were pure curiousity for people tuning in who have now tuned out. Again they need buzzworthy segments and less matches. Codys great promo is not enough. They need Mox to go Punk 2011 next week on Cody attacking him and then saying yeah Cody is managment and the fans are right, you are only in the match because of your position etc etc. Cody beats Jericho at full gear which sets up Cody w/Mjf vs Mox. If that feud cant bump the ratings, nothing can


----------



## Death Rider

The guy comparing a free platform with ratings from not just America but the fucking world to the ratings on TNT might be peak hilarity.



RainmakerV2 said:


> Maybe it will, maybe it won't. You guys are hoping it does so you can beat your chests in here.


And you say this like certain fans don't beat their chests when AEW have a blip or struggle in the ratings?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Eh... was hoping it would be above 900k

So, little disappointed - mainly as they are putting forth an almost perfect wrestling show. Ideally you would want more people to experience that - but it is what it is.

NXT had a good recovery - good for their fans

I’m at the point though where i am hoping NXT beats AEW in the ratings just so that we can rip the bandaid off and get that ‘hell week’ out of the way and the place can calm down a bit


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> because reach matters? because maybe Tony underestimated just how many cord cutters there are? because maybe its a sign that even though there might be a lot of old school wrestling fans out there you might not be able to monetize them enough to justify high production value?
> 
> if you dont think Tony is evaluating these things you have no clue how the business model has evolved... and *this is a ratings thread so why not compare online eyeballs to cable tv eyeballs?*


Because it's a nonsense.

Hey guys let's compare AEW with the olympics.


----------



## Britz94xD

They should do 6 PPVs a year instead of 4. It'll make their tv more exciting, easier to build towards ppv and they'll get more $$$.

(There's only been 2 month gap between All Out and Full Gear). etc


----------



## Zappers

Joe Gill said:


> NXT ratings are irrelevant. WWE is a cash cow right now... they have enormous revenue streams from the RAW and Smackdown deals, network subcriptions, Saudi shows etc.. they can afford to take a loss on NXT. AEW does not have that luxury... if they dont get higher ratings they will not be able to re-sign guys like page and mjf in a few years unless Khan family is ok with losing boatloads of money.


They are losing boatloads of money now. And they know it.(well Tony knows it, he's duped his father who has zero clue whats going on) It's a risk that AEW is willing to take. How it will pay off in the end. We'll see. But right now the choice of throwing tons of cash at talent, promising the world, promising light work schedule, etc... Hey you don't want to work this week, ahhh, go ahead take a week off. Even go and wrestle for another promotion, we don't care... Here let me write you a check, daddy is paying for it... It's a circus at AEW. Betting all your chips on TV in this day and age. TV? Think about it. We'll see what happens, you never know it could be a winner.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Death Rider said:


> The guy comparing a free platform with ratings from not just America but the fucking world to the ratings on TNT might be peak hilarity.
> 
> 
> 
> And you say this like certain fans don't beat their chests when AEW have a blip or struggle in the ratings?


You cant have people like RubberbandGOAT in here getting likes and not expect a little brushback when the numbers arent in AEWs favor. What I see are a bunch of the AEW superfans in here hoping Vince doesnt send in the calvary from Smackdown this Wednesday so they can sit in this thread and still go, 7 for 7, HAHA HUNTER YOU CAN'T BEAT US! It reeks of desperation. And don't get me wrong, NXT is ass. I dont watch it. Its just funny to read.


----------



## RapShepard

The Raw Smackdown said:


> I don't know what people are panicking for. Numbers seem good to me. Hell, they went up. What's the problem?


The numbers aren't 4's, 5's, and 6's like during the 90s so clearly all TV stations are panicking and ready to cancel all wrestling for ever


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> The numbers aren't 4's, 5's, and 6's like during the 90s so clearly all TV stations are panicking and ready to cancel all wrestling for ever


Oh noesssss!


----------



## The Wood

It’s happening...


----------



## RapShepard

Britz94xD said:


> They should do 6 PPVs a year instead of 4. It'll make their tv more exciting, easier to build towards ppv and they'll get more $$$.
> 
> 
> 
> (There's only been 2 month gap between All Out and Full Gear). etc


I have no doubt they'll end up doing about 80-10 PPV not specials. Think about it they have 3 PPVs and 2 summer specials with no TV. They've already indicated they want Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen to be annual. So I can't see them over loading the late spring/summer just to have the rest of the year pretty open.


----------



## Death Rider

RapShepard said:


> The numbers aren't 4's, 5's, and 6's like during the 90s so clearly all TV stations are panicking and ready to cancel all wrestling for ever


Exactly. So many people in this thread are legit facepalm worthy with their stupidity overreaction to the tinest shit. I could imagine them running a company and every week changing shit in a panic, making shit worse.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Another country heard from. 

Thank good all these media experts are here to set us all straight on how to salvage this embarrassment and abject failure of a wrestling company that we’re complete fucking idiots for even watching. :lmao :lmao :lmao


----------



## Joe Gill

Zappers said:


> They are losing boatloads of money now. And they know it.(well Tony knows it, he's duped his father who has zero clue whats going on) It's a risk that AEW is willing to take. How it will pay off in the end. We'll see. But right now the choice of throwing tons of cash at talent, promising the world, promising light work schedule, etc... Hey you don't want to work this week, ahhh, go ahead take a week off. Even go and wrestle for another promotion, we don't care... Here let me write you a check, daddy is paying for it... It's a circus at AEW. Betting all your chips on TV in this day and age. TV? Think about it. We'll see what happens, you never know it could be a winner.


im hoping its a winner but these ratings are very discouraging.. i dont think people on this board realize how much of AEWs success or failure is directly correlated to the tv deal they have with TNT... and if the ratings are already well below a million and down trending that is a huge concern. 

does tony really think millions of people are going to tune in to watch japanese womans wrestling? the answer is clearly no so why even bother with it when you only have a 2 hour show? 

Seriously...some random japanese ladies got more airtime yesterday than moxley and mjf combined.... it makes no sense.

ditch the japanese ladies and get real tony


----------



## Britz94xD

PPV is where they'll make their money back. If they can get Punk vs Austin, Okada vs Omega they'll be golden.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

LOL at anyone pretending that AEW isn't the underdog in this ratings war. One company has had six tv shows, the other has a vast array of wrestlers that they can deploy at anytime, free advertisement on a cable and broadcast network, and a network that lets then run 9 minutes overtime. The deck is stacked against AEW, yet they continue to win. I expect a full scale invasion next week to put nxt over the top. The question is how ephemeral that gain shall be.


----------



## Death Rider

Britz94xD said:


> PPV is where they'll make their money back. If they can get Punk vs Austin, Okada vs Omega they'll be golden.


Ok that is not happening....


----------



## rbl85

Joe Gill said:


> im hoping its a winner but these ratings are very discouraging.. i dont think people on this board realize how much of AEWs success or failure is directly correlated to the tv deal they have with TNT... and if the ratings are already well below a million and down trending that is a huge concern.
> 
> *does tony really think millions of people are going to tune in to watch japanese womans wrestling? the answer is clearly no so why even bother with it when you only have a 2 hour show?*


2M people will never tune in to watch a new wrestling show. 


You guys have to understand that a new wrestling show will never have 2M people watching it.

Wrestling is niche as fuck, it's not popular and more people make fun of it than praise it.


----------



## Alright_Mate

I think everybody expected NXT to get a ratings boost, this angle with the main roster is a clever move that will get more eyes on the NXT product, once Survivor Series is over though I expect the interest will die down and ratings will drop again.

AEW are putting on good consistent shows in my view but they obviously need to do more, ratings went up and they beat NXT again but 822k needs to be worked on.

Full Gear will be crucial, they need a solid bounce next week after a PPV, I hope they reach 900k but I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen.

They are doing things right but it seems they must go bigger, I'm out of ideas though :hmmm


----------



## looper007

Death Rider said:


> Exactly. So many people in this thread are legit facepalm worthy with their stupidity overreaction to the tinest shit. I could imagine them running a company and every week changing shit in a panic, making shit worse.


With the promotion NXT got in the last week or so I would be disappointed if they didn't get a ratings bump. I just block anyone who goes into business model like they know how it works and write utter rubbish or anyone who says "It's over for AEW" or anyone who doesn't even come onto AEW board and starts writing negative shit, that's pretty much half this thread lol


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

This thread gets stupider and stupider every week. Just when I think it’s gotten as stupid as it can get, POW it’s Thursday again and the usual suspects come out of the woodwork and their cardboard boxes under the bridge and it gets even stupider. The utter bullshit flying around here right now is downright hilarious.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Joe Gill said:


> because reach matters? because maybe Tony underestimated just how many cord cutters there are? because maybe its a sign that even though there might be a lot of old school wrestling fans out there you might not be able to monetize them enough to justify high production value?



How does that make domestic viewership on TNT comparable to international viewership on YouTube?


FFS, if you're going to make that comparison, add in TSN. Add in ITV. Add in FITE TV. Add in all of their international broadcast partnerships...which you're not going to do, as it would completely contradict whatever the fuck you're trying to say.





Joe Gill said:


> .if you dont think Tony is evaluating these things you have no clue how the business model has evolved... *and this is a ratings thread so why not compare online eyeballs to cable tv eyeballs*?


 

Because there's a big fucking difference between domestic TV ratings and YouTube views.


Do you not understand how TV ratings work? It's literally based on 40,000 homes, who are specifically chosen to represent all of domestic households with television. It is then combined with the census, to illustrate exactly who is watching what and when. In other words, it's a presumption; not a definitive tally.


Never mind the fact that, with TNT, we're talking roughly 90 million homes (which, I remind you, are represented by those 40,000 that actually have their viewing habits monitored). YouTube is available in over 270 million homes...IN THE US ALONE!


And having said all of that, I'm pretty sure you still don't get it.


----------



## looper007

Alright_Mate said:


> I think everybody expected NXT to get a ratings boost, this angle with the main roster is a clever move that will get more eyes on the NXT product, once Survivor Series is over though I expect the interest will die down and ratings will drop again.
> 
> AEW are putting on good consistent shows in my view but they obviously need to do more, ratings went up and they beat NXT again but 822k needs to be worked on.
> 
> Full Gear will be crucial, they need a solid bounce next week after a PPV, I hope they reach 900k but I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen.
> 
> *They are doing things right but it seems they must go bigger, I'm out of ideas though :hmmm*


Sometimes you just have to admit that you just continue putting on great shows and hope the audience moves up with you. They put on great shows, and they can't sign big name stars all the time. I think with AEW over 800,000 is probably as far as they get maybe 900,000. I just don't see them moving up even if they put on the world's greatest wrestling show. It is what it is.


----------



## RapShepard

Death Rider said:


> Exactly. So many people in this thread are legit facepalm worthy with their stupidity overreaction to the tinest shit. I could imagine them running a company and every week changing shit in a panic, making shit worse.


I think it's because folk just refuse to use perspective. Like every week AEW is in the top 5 of shows, how on Earth could that be bad. Unless the executives at TNT just decide they don't want to be associated with wrestling or there's some insane scandal they're probably good for the foreseeable future with these numbers.


----------



## Death Rider

^ Exactly, people just have unrealstic expecations for a BRAND NEW COMPANY in a niche market.



looper007 said:


> With the promotion NXT got in the last week or so I would be disappointed if they didn't get a ratings bump. I just block anyone who goes into business model like they know how it works and write utter rubbish or anyone who says "It's over for AEW" or anyone who doesn't even come onto AEW board and starts writing negative shit, that's pretty much half this thread lol


Some people being neagtive make vaild points but others I literally feel like headbutting a wall. One person is comparing a youtube show with viewers from around the world with an American TV show's ratings is peak you don't know what you even on about. I don't pretend to be a ratings expert as I don't work for TV and quite frankly the people on this site (most of them) don't work for TV or know anything ratings either as much as they pretend to. People saying AEW is dead I just roll my eyes at. Some people would only view AEW as a success if it beat Raw and Smackdown


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I think it's because folk just refuse to use perspective. Like every week AEW is in the top 5 of shows, how on Earth could that be bad. Unless the executives at TNT just decide they don't want to be associated with wrestling or there's some insane scandal they're probably good for the foreseeable future with these numbers.


Not to mention the extra money they make from PPVs - which they can’t do with ‘Beauty and the Beast’ reruns


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Not to mention the extra money they make from PPVs - which they can’t do with ‘Beauty and the Beast’ reruns


That too and the fact AEW has to be a top reason for any Bleacher Report Live success. I didn't even know that shit was a thing before Double or Nothing and I had a Bleacher Report account (that was collecting dust, but still). Idk why folk are so pessimistic about a brand new thing.


----------



## Jedah

I will say that they can make the matches shorter. Not all of them have to be 20 minutes. Most of these matches are too long. That's been one of my biggest complaints with AEW since the beginning.

Less of those, and more vignettes, backstage segments, etc. Follow people around the show. AEW is at its best when it does its creative angles. AEW has started figuring this out over the past couple of weeks.

Save the longish matches for big occasions only.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Alright_Mate said:


> I think everybody expected NXT to get a ratings boost, this angle with the main roster is a clever move that will get more eyes on the NXT product, once Survivor Series is over though I expect the interest will die down and ratings will drop again.
> 
> AEW are putting on good consistent shows in my view but they obviously need to do more, ratings went up and they beat NXT again but 822k needs to be worked on.
> 
> Full Gear will be crucial, they need a solid bounce next week after a PPV, I hope they reach 900k but I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't happen.
> 
> They are doing things right but it seems they must go bigger, I'm out of ideas though :hmmm


In all seriousness now ... I don’t think they need to go bigger. I think they need to do more of exactly what they did last night, which is real unpredictability. I thought they had a near perfect mix of wrestling and non-wrestling. And that Jericho segment that said more about what this company is about than anything else they’ve done so far. That kind of stuff takes time for word to get around. 

With that in mind, I also think the ratings are more of a reflection of what they’ve done in the past, especially last week, than what they did _this_ week. And I think last weeks show was the weakest so far, while this week’s was one of the strongest. They’ve also got a ppv coming this weekend, which I expect should give them a decent bump next week if it’s anywhere near as good as the last one. 

People really need to remember, this is a brand new promotion with very few established stars, and it’s doing pretty goddamn well right out if the gate. It’s not WWE, it’s not WCW II, it’s not NWA, Impact or ROH. I really don’t know exactly what people were expecting as far as numbers this early on. As it gets more attention among wrestling fans and builds new stars, it _should_ only get better.


----------



## Alright_Mate

looper007 said:


> Sometimes you just have to admit that you just continue putting on great shows and hope the audience moves up with you. They put on great shows, and they can't sign big name stars all the time. I think with AEW over 800,000 is probably as far as they get maybe 900,000. I just don't see them moving up even if they put on the world's greatest wrestling show. It is what it is.


I agree.

It's still early days, right now they seem to be in the process of gaining viewers trust.

They can't do much more right now but remain consistent, keep dishing out good shows and hope that the ratings steadily grow or at least remain consistent too.

I do feel like they must go bigger at some point though, that one big injection of a big storyline or a big new signing could really make all the difference.


----------



## Joe Gill

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> How does that make domestic viewership on TNT comparable to international viewership on YouTube?
> 
> 
> FFS, if you're going to make that comparison, add in TSN. Add in ITV. Add in FITE TV. Add in all of their international broadcast partnerships...which you're not going to do, as it would completely contradict whatever the fuck you're trying to say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because there's a big fucking difference between domestic TV ratings and YouTube views.
> 
> 
> Do you not understand how TV ratings work? It's literally based on 40,000 homes, who are specifically chosen to represent all of domestic households with television. It is then combined with the census, to illustrate exactly who is watching what and when. In other words, it's a presumption; not a definitive tally.
> 
> 
> Never mind the fact that, with TNT, we're talking roughly 90 million homes (which, I remind you, are represented by those 40,000 that actually have their viewing habits monitored). YouTube is available in over 270 million homes...IN THE US ALONE!
> 
> 
> And having said all of that, I'm pretty sure you still don't get it.


youre the one that doesnt get it.... AEW would not exist today without their TNT deal. You seem to have a hard time grasping the importance of the deal...and not the mickey mouse deals they have in places like Canada on TSN2 which they only signed a few days before the first episode aired. 

40,000 is a massive sample size... in statistics an N of 40,000 has an exrtemely high confidence interval..... and at the end of the day advertisers are going to rely on those numbers when they decide how much they are willing to pay for commercial time.

bottom line is this... tony may have over estimated how popular the show might be on traditional cable and went all in on a lucrative tv deal in the US which is where the big potential dollars are. WWE has an older audience who are more likely to watch cable tv... AEW has branded themselves as the hip new wrestling organization thats cater to 20-40 year olds but unfortunately there might not be enough of them that still watch cable tv... 

think about it this way... everyone is switching to streaming while this new company decides to go all in on cable tv and a quarterly ppv..... maybe not the best idea?


----------



## rbl85

I might make some people angry but you, the fans are one of the major reason why wrestling is dying.

You are not wrestling fans, you are brand, company fans…."oh i Watch AEW so fuck WWE" or the opposite.

You want so much a "war" that you forget that at the end the only loser will be Wrestling. You're always saying "they should do this, do that and stop do this and that" but sorry folks if the AEW or wrestling in general wants to survive then they need to stop listening and please to the people who watched wrestling all of their life because guess what ? You/us are a aging and dying breed, we are out of touch.

The last thing a wrestling show should do in 2020 is trying to be like the shows of the monday night wars, wrestling needs to evolve or like everything that didn't had the courage or the will to do it….it will disappear.


----------



## looper007

Alright_Mate said:


> I agree.
> 
> It's still early days, right now they seem to be in the process of gaining viewers trust.
> 
> They can't do much more right now but remain consistent, keep dishing out good shows and hope that the ratings steadily grow or at least remain consistent too.
> 
> I do feel like they must go bigger at some point though, that one big injection of a big storyline or a big new signing could really make all the difference.


If Wrestling has another upswing, it has to be AEW leading the way with their own Hogan, Rock, Austin or Cena like superstar that just connects outside a wrestling audience. That's the only way I see them making a real massive difference to their ratings.

Signing someone like a Punk or bringing over a WWE top guy will only get a week or two boost imo and that will wear off and it go back down to the same old ratings. 

For me, just keep up doing what they are doing. The audience will come to them over time and in the next year or two if they can get themselves back into the consisted 1 million rating then it be a massive success for them.


----------



## fabi1982

Its funny to see how everyone finds the right excuse for this rating. Finding a way why NXT has stolen viewers from AEW because of the promotion on RAW and SD, when everyone agreed on Melzers report couple month ago that there is basically a different group of people watching AEW compared to WWE, so why would the so called lapsed fans who AEW is going after watch NXT now because of the invasion? And why should AEW get more viewers once SS is over? Maybe NXT will lose some, but why do you AEW fans care about NXT? A good show like yesterdays shouldnt just „bump“ back to 800andsome. 

But keep going finding excuses and keep calling everyone a troll who has some „but“ or „they should change“. We at least want to discuss it, 600k people just tuned out of what AEW represents. And thats a hard fact. 

And you guys talk more about WWE in here than the „marks“ or „shills“ or „morons“ or whatever you AEW fans call the normal forum member. But it seems to be fine if you do it? 

And even if TNT is happy with the number, something seems to be wrong or there are not enough lapsed fans who want to invest 2h a week on just another wrestling corp. Even without comparing it doesnt look good when you do lose every week, except for the week everyone expected a bump to 900k+ but still lose to the week prior to the world series and that is without competition on your go home show with a livid crowd and the great promo from Cody and the over the top brawl...maybe wrestling doesnt have any royal family...

I will go on and watch both and just read here for the giggles.


----------



## rbl85

Just to show you guys how wrestling fans are kind of disconnected. 

In an MMA podcast, of all the wrestler in AEW they only talked about Orange Cassidy.


Now i love this forum but i'm going to "leave" because i can't really appreciate any show at his fullest anymore. Too much talks about the ratings (even in threads where we're not supposed to talk about that), negativity is just crazy, dick battle between AEW and WWE fans….

So thanks for those 2 years, it was fun.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Well, I am shocked, I really expected nXt to come in around 1.2 million and AEW to dip under 700k after all the promotion nXt got in front of millions of viewers on Friday & Monday.

Big win for AEW. Now fans who wasted their time last night on nXt are kicking themselves for missing out on AEWs amazing show. I expect next week 950k for AEW and 750k for nXt.


----------



## Joe Gill

rbl85 said:


> I might make some people angry but you, the fans are one of the major reason why wrestling is dying.
> 
> You are not wrestling fans, you are brand, company fans…."oh i Watch AEW so fuck WWE" or the opposite.
> 
> You want so much a "war" that you forget that at the end the only loser will be Wrestling. You're always saying "they should do this, do that and stop do this and that" but sorry folks if the AEW or wrestling in general wants to survive then they need to stop listening and please to the people who watched wrestling all of their life because guess what ? You/us are a aging and dying breed, we are out of touch.
> 
> The last thing a wrestling show should do in 2020 is trying to be like the shows of the monday night wars, wrestling needs to evolve or like everything that didn't had the courage or the will to do it….it will disappear.


well apparently all the new young fans with no attention spans just want their quick cheap dopamine hits by watching a bunch of random flips by undersized wrestlers..... and how has that been working out from a ratings or creating superstars standpoint? its been a failure. 

maybe there really is nothing AEW can do... just a sign of the times...but the one thing that has become very clear is having a flip fest and random matches involving japanese ladies is not going to lead to a renaissance


----------



## Chan Hung

remember that NXT has had a boost on Raw and SmackDown and had to have main roster guys come on their show and they still lost to all elite wrestling in the ratings LOL


----------



## Alright_Mate

looper007 said:


> If Wrestling has another upswing, it has to be AEW leading the way with their own Hogan, Rock, Austin or Cena like superstar that just connects outside a wrestling audience. That's the only way I see them making a real massive difference to their ratings.
> 
> Signing someone like a Punk or bringing over a WWE top guy will only get a week or two boost imo and that will wear off and it go back down to the same old ratings.
> 
> For me, just keep up doing what they are doing. The audience will come to them over time and in the next year or two if they can get themselves back into the consisted 1 million rating then it be a massive success for them.


That makes sense.

Of course you don't expect anybody to reach the heights of a Rock or Austin etc... but as we've seen so far with the AEW roster, they have guys with that kind of charisma, they have guys that could potentially draw the outsiders in. Of course you easily pinpoint MJF as that potential guy, you don't expect him to be as big but he is the kind of guy that I feel outsiders will draw towards.

As for signing someone I think it all depends on the name tbh, Punk's name gets mentioned every week, it's becoming boring to many and that ship has probably sailed; however this is a guy that fans have wanted back for years, if anybody is able to give AEW that big injection then CM Punk is that guy.

But as we've said already, they are doing things right atm, it's early days, this is a process of trust, if they can remain consistent and keep producing good shows then fingers crossed within time they hit the million mark again.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

RainmakerV2 said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy comparing a free platform with ratings from not just America but the fucking world to the ratings on TNT might be peak hilarity.
> 
> 
> 
> And you say this like certain fans don't beat their chests when AEW have a blip or struggle in the ratings?
> 
> 
> 
> You cant have people like RubberbandGOAT in here getting likes and not expect a little brushback when the numbers arent in AEWs favor. What I see are a bunch of the AEW superfans in here hoping Vince doesnt send in the calvary from Smackdown this Wednesday so they can sit in this thread and still go, 7 for 7, HAHA HUNTER YOU CAN'T BEAT US! It reeks of desperation. And don't get me wrong, NXT is ass. I dont watch it. Its just funny to read.
Click to expand...

explain to me how AEW’s numbers are bad! For the first month in TV and only being around less than a year, pretty great! So I don’t know how you cannot be impressed. They’ve surpassed a lot of expectations.


----------



## RapShepard

RubberbandGoat said:


> explain to me how AEW’s numbers are bad! For the first month in TV and only being around less than a year, pretty great! So I don’t know how you cannot be impressed. They’ve surpassed a lot of expectations.


They aren't bad, but you do your fair share of panicking every week almost.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Joe Gill said:


> youre the one that doesnt get it.... AEW would not exist today without their TNT deal. You seem to have a hard time grasping the importance of the deal...and not the mickey mouse deals they have in places like Canada on TSN2 which they only signed a few days before the first episode aired.



What the fuck are you talking about? 



Not once have I sat here and tried to minimize the importance of their TV deal. Hence why it's plum fucking stupid to compare TV ratings with YouTube viewers, considering the latter doesn't generate anywhere near as much revenue as the former, irrespective of numbers of views.



Joe Gill said:


> 40,000 is a massive sample size... in statistics an N of 40,000 has an exrtemely high confidence interval..... and at the end of the day advertisers are going to rely on those numbers when they decide how much they are willing to pay for commercial time.



How the fuck is 40,000 a massive sample size? It's less than 0.05% of the total number of homes with TNT. 




Joe Gill said:


> bottom line is this... tony may have over estimated how popular the show might be on traditional cable and went all in on a lucrative tv deal in the US which is where the big potential dollars are. WWE has an older audience who are more likely to watch cable tv... AEW has branded themselves as the hip new wrestling organization thats cater to 20-40 year olds but unfortunately there might not be enough of them that still watch cable tv...



That doesn't make the ratings comparable to YouTube views.



Joe Gill said:


> think about it this way... everyone is switching to streaming while this new company decides to go all in on cable tv and a quarterly ppv..... maybe not the best idea?



What does that have to do with YouTube views?


----------



## Matthew Castillo

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> How the fuck is 40,000 a massive sample size? It's less than 0.05% of the total number of homes with TNT.


Well for most things the standard sample size is ~1000.


----------



## Sbatenney

I always thought that AEW would get 800K a week when it all settled down and it seems true. I don't think people are taking NXT seriously as to me, it's been even on quality with AEW the past six week, both clearly better than any other wrestling show. I do think the hype has died down from AEW which will explain the drop off since the first episode.

I think the ratings will be close from now on, I think NXT will win some and AEW will win other weeks, believing that AEW was always just going to run away with it, was stupid. Both are great shows in their own right.


----------



## Jonhern

Balor fan said:


> Ok I am gonna cut the crap and tell it like it is. This is terrible for AEW. Horrible numbers. If a developmental show like NXT beats them in ratings in the coming weeks, that would be the pathetic for AEW. They need to do something drastic starting next week.


Now nxt is developmental again? I thought everyone has been saying they are not that and they are a 3rd brand on the level of raw and sdl?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Sbatenney said:


> I always thought that AEW would get 800K a week when it all settled down and it seems true. I don't think people are taking NXT seriously as to me, it's been even on quality with AEW the past six week, both clearly better than any other wrestling show. I do think the hype has died down from AEW which will explain the drop off since the first episode.
> 
> I think the ratings will be close from now on, I think NXT will win some and AEW will win other weeks, believing that AEW was always just going to run away with it, was stupid. Both are great shows in their own right.


Interesting point here — whether you like AEW or NXT (or both), consensus seems to be that they’re both better shows than Raw or SD right now. At the end of the day, isn’t that what really matters? The fans are happy, and who cares what kind of ratings they’re pulling. If that continues to be the case, the numbers might eventually bear that out. But for now, fuck it all, just enjoy the shows you enjoy.


----------



## Jedah

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Interesting point here — whether you like AEW or NXT (or both), consensus seems to be that they’re both better shows than Raw or SD right now. At the end of the day, isn’t that what really matters? The fans are happy, and who cares what kind of ratings they’re pulling. If that continues to be the case, the numbers might eventually bear that out. But for now, fuck it all, just enjoy the shows you enjoy.


Because we want these shows to continue, that's why the ratings matter, especially in AEW's case.

Though if AEW continues to outperform by a big margin TNT's previous Wednesday lineup, it should be OK. This week's rating was disappointing though, there's no debating that.

If it can settle in at 900k - 1M for the longer haul, that's a good place.


----------



## domotime2

Jedah said:


> Because we want these shows to continue, that's why the ratings matter, especially in AEW's case.
> 
> Though if AEW continues to outperform by a big margin TNT's previous Wednesday lineup, it should be OK. This week's rating was disappointing though, there's no debating that.
> 
> If it can settle in at 900k - 1M for the longer haul, that's a good place.


But you have to realize that TV execs aren't JUST looking at the basic tv ratings to justify decision making. They're not stupid. IT's not 1997. There's a whole array of different platforms now, a lot of them with DVR's, and a thing called "+3", when they look at ratings +3 days after the live date as well...which is something I don't know how to find. That's the only issue when fans discuss 'ratings'. It's not an accurate portrayal of what everyone is looking at in terms of success. 

Like i've said a trillion times, I haven't watched wrestling LIVE in a decade...and I know I'm not alone...and i know TV execs get that.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> 2M people will never tune in to watch a new wrestling show.
> 
> 
> You guys have to understand that a new wrestling show will never have 2M people watching it.
> 
> Wrestling is niche as fuck, it's not popular and more people make fun of it than praise it.


The point is an old japanese woman in a mustache doesn't help. That just makes it MORE niche, and to a point of weird too. If WWE did the same, everyone would be bashing it, rightfully so.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Jedah said:


> Because we want these shows to continue, that's why the ratings matter, especially in AEW's case.
> 
> Though if AEW continues to outperform by a big margin TNT's previous Wednesday lineup, it should be OK. *This week's rating was disappointing though, there's no debating that.*
> 
> If it can settle in at 900k - 1M for the longer haul, that's a good place.


How about YOU don't tell ME what MY opinion should be.

Thanks.


----------



## Bosnian21

Damn, people expecting AEW to come in as hot as a WCW led by nWO in 1996 or some shit.

They’re new. Give them time to grow.


----------



## Soul Rex

Wrestling isn't niche, wrestlers from the past are still household names.

You have to understand to the company will grow along with their stars, people will tune in when they find out there's some big names thay call their attention.

Maybe Moxley and Jericho aren't big enough to carry the company just by themlseves.


----------



## outsiders96

They really need there own night, maybe a Tuesday or Thursday but if wwe follows itd be pointless


----------



## Natecore

Another win for the good guys!

Aew is easily the best prowrestling show airing anywhere in the world. It’s probably the best prowrestling television since peak ‘96-‘97 Nitro. 

They just need to keep it up. 

Don’t doubt the Khan!
Don’t doubt the Elite!

Fuck NXT! 
Fuck Vince!
Kill the evil empire!


----------



## Joe Gill

Jedah said:


> Because we want these shows to continue, that's why the ratings matter, especially in AEW's case.
> 
> Though if AEW continues to outperform by a big margin TNT's previous Wednesday lineup, it should be OK. This week's rating was disappointing though, there's no debating that.
> 
> If it can settle in at 900k - 1M for the longer haul, that's a good place.


this is a common mistake people keep making... it isnt just about whether or not tnt is happy with the ratings....its also about how much revenue they pull in. The deal they signed was a profit sharing deal where they split the revenues. Its not like AEW has this gauranteed deal like the WWE has. 
AEWs success is 100% contingent on the tv ratings... so even if TNT is happy it doesnt necessarily mean AEW will be happy if the money they receive from TNT isnt enough to help cover the costs of running the business. 

Most wrestling fans are at least aware on AEW... and the fact that nearly half of them who tuned in to the debut episode are not interested is a real bad sign.

People have short attention spans these days and a million options.... and why they decide to book a womans japanese match over giving time to moxley or mjf is bewildering considering they are trying to win over new fans.


----------



## Seafort

outsiders96 said:


> They really need there own night, maybe a Tuesday or Thursday but if wwe follows itd be pointless


Absolutely.

If AEW moved to Thursday, WWE would either move NXT to Thursday or create a new show (Attitude Era Wrestling?) to compete. Likewise with Saturday, Tuesday or Sunday night.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

outsiders96 said:


> They really need there own night, maybe a Tuesday or Thursday but if wwe follows itd be pointless


can't be Tuesday or Thursday since those are the days TNT airs NBA.


----------



## Jonhern

Joe Gill said:


> how long before the Dark episodes on youtube beat the actual TNT ratings? some of the episodes have over a million views....granted that includes repeat viewers and global audience...but the fact that dark matches involving mostly jobbers get nearly as many eyeballs as the main show is further proof that TV is practically dead...especially for the 18-49 demo.


They are completely different metrics, YouTube is basically impressions, if you any amount you count as one. Nielson ratings is average viewership over the whole run time so it matters how much the person watches. And only on traditional cable on the day it aired. The two are not comparable at all.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

We'll see next week if AEW can rebound to pre World Series levels. I do wonder where they'll be a month from now.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah they are kind of stuck on Wednesdays atleast for now. 

TNT has NBA on Tue and Thu and then you'd be up against even tougher competition on Mon and Fri.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> Really enjoyed last night’s show and I like what AEW is doing. They’re doing the little things and paying attention to details which WWE just refuses to do. That’s a disappointing number especially since I think AEW has done really well at building their PPV. I honestly didn’t think NXT could make this a horse race so soon. Actually, I didn’t think they’d ever make it close.


It's going to take time for word of mouth to spread and get people to consistently tune in. WWF didn't gain viewers overnight with the attitude era and Stone cold. The audience is there, they tuned in for the first episode, once those people start hearing others talk about how good aew has been they will slowly come back.


----------



## rbl85

AEW Numbers per quarter :

Quarter 1 : 976K
Q2 : 959K (Cody interview) down 18k
Q3 : 803K (Private Party vs Dark order) down 156K
Q4 : 827k (end of PP vs DO + Jéricho video package) up 24K
Q5 : 798K (women match) down 29k
Q6 : 698k (Brandi promo and Spears vs Cutler) down 100k
Q7 : 739K (Mox vs Omega video package and start of the main event) up 40K
Q8 : 768K (end of main event + brawl) up 29K

Meltzer said that the people who stopped watching AEW didn't switch to NXT.
He also said that the video packages hurt AEW (less interesting than matches)
18-34 demo : up for Cody, Riho and main event (which did better than the main event of NXT)
35-49 demo : Same.

Women 18-34: AEW didn't have any high spot (more Watch the main event of NXT)
W 35-49 : The only strong segment was the main event (more Watch the main event of AEW)

Men 18-34 : Cody promo, riho's match and the main event
men 35-49 : Cody promo, a bit of growth for PP vs DO and the main event (more Watch the ME of NXT)

So the reasons for the semi bad-ok rating: Video packages, PP vs DO and Spears vs Cutler.


----------



## kingfrass44

Zappers said:


> Correct.
> 
> And NXT gets multiple replays on various channels. Including Spanish speaking channels. Plus they stream it on their own network of 1.5 million plus dedicated subscribers. Many of which still only watch NXT on the service and not the USA channel which is the reason(it was part of the deal) why it's available the next night as opposed to waiting weeks like RAW/SD to appease those fans.


You're trying to find excuses.


----------



## outsiders96

Yeah they are stuck on Wednesdays but i kind of think they probably could of gotten about a million or so viewers with their own night but then maybe with the right angle or mega star were too ever come along which I highly doubt ever happens again ?they could really do something but they need to survive on a major cable channel for wrestling too have an alternative and some hope for the future.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Q2 : 959K (Cody interview) down 18k


People can now stop pretending that he's over.


----------



## Jonhern

Zappers said:


> They are losing boatloads of money now. And they know it.(well Tony knows it, he's duped his father who has zero clue whats going on) It's a risk that AEW is willing to take. How it will pay off in the end. We'll see. But right now the choice of throwing tons of cash at talent, promising the world, promising light work schedule, etc... Hey you don't want to work this week, ahhh, go ahead take a week off. Even go and wrestle for another promotion, we don't care... Here let me write you a check, daddy is paying for it... It's a circus at AEW. Betting all your chips on TV in this day and age. TV? Think about it. We'll see what happens, you never know it could be a winner.


Yeah we have no idea if they are losing boat loads of money. For all we know the talent contracts didn't start paying out until October and everything prior was on a per show bases like Indy promotions. They are doing very well with attendance, more than the wwe average, and have good demo ratings and have done well on thier first two ppv. They are a startup so likely not in the black yet but to say they are losing a boatloads is an exaggeration. Except for a few guys I doubt these guys have huge contracts either. If they did they wouldn't be busting thier asses still doing Indy shows.


----------



## Jonhern

Death Rider said:


> Exactly. So many people in this thread are legit facepalm worthy with their stupidity overreaction to the tinest shit. I could imagine them running a company and every week changing shit in a panic, making shit worse.


Aka Vince


----------



## patpat

The XL 2 said:


> I really enjoyed AEW yesterday, but anyone trying to spin those numbers as anything other than worrisome are kidding themselves. WWE has finally found a formula to put NXT on equal footing with AEW. And I figured AEW would settle in at 1 mil, 800K is pretty low


 yes that formula is called the main roster + heavy promotion on fox and monday night raw. Dont know about that chief :lol


----------



## Best Bout Machine

So, NXT couldn't even win with an invasion storyline and bringing main roster members down. That's pretty funny. Maybe they'll bring Reigns and Wyatt next week.


----------



## TheFiend666

TKO Wrestling said:


> Well, I am shocked, I really expected nXt to come in around 1.2 million and AEW to dip under 700k after all the promotion nXt got in front of millions of viewers on Friday & Monday.
> 
> Big win for AEW. Now fans who wasted their time last night on nXt are kicking themselves for missing out on AEWs amazing show. I expect next week 950k for AEW and 750k for nXt.


Lmao


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> People can now stop pretending that he's over.


The Q1 is the number at the very beginning of the show and not at the end of the first match + there was a commercial.


----------



## headstar

Joe Gill said:


> Tony needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who cheer for the same pointless random dives by the flippy dudes. Casual fans arent interested in that...... they want DRAMA. MJF should have his own segment.... more in ring promos... more shoot interviews...more brawls. No one cares about female japanese wresltling or midgets doing ballet. More Moxley, more MJF, more Jericho.
> 
> Give the fans drama and controversy... quit pandering to the geeks who like to go "ooooooh" when someone kicks out of a finisher 10 times during a match.


AEW said they are not interested in casuals. AEW is a vanity project for The Elite and their Indy friends.


----------



## rbl85

headstar said:


> AEW said they are not interested in casuals. AEW is a vanity project for The Elite and their Indy friends.


They didn't say that.


----------



## Jonhern

Joe Gill said:


> youre the one that doesnt get it.... AEW would not exist today without their TNT deal. You seem to have a hard time grasping the importance of the deal...and not the mickey mouse deals they have in places like Canada on TSN2 which they only signed a few days before the first episode aired.
> 
> 40,000 is a massive sample size... in statistics an N of 40,000 has an exrtemely high confidence interval..... and at the end of the day advertisers are going to rely on those numbers when they decide how much they are willing to pay for commercial time.
> 
> bottom line is this... tony may have over estimated how popular the show might be on traditional cable and went all in on a lucrative tv deal in the US which is where the big potential dollars are. WWE has an older audience who are more likely to watch cable tv... AEW has branded themselves as the hip new wrestling organization thats cater to 20-40 year olds but unfortunately there might not be enough of them that still watch cable tv...
> 
> think about it this way... everyone is switching to streaming while this new company decides to go all in on cable tv and a quarterly ppv..... maybe not the best idea?


You do know those 50+ viewers would do nothing to help the ratings for aew and the ad rates they get right? They don't need to attract them. They need to keep doing what they are doing they skew young as it is which is good, meaning they don't have to get a huge boost in total viewers to up thier demo rating like wwe which skews older. Look at the rating the NBA on tnt got last Thursday and let's see if you still say aew is doing poorly


----------



## Matthew Castillo

So probably cut back on the weird Brandi video packages, and probably working on repackaging The Dark Order or keeping them mostly to Dark. I think they are talented in the ring, but the gimmick had trouble getting over during the insider heavy pre-TV days, and aren't good for the TV audience.


----------



## Taroostyles

I cant help but laugh at all these doom and gloomers. 

So WWE does everything they can to make NXT the focal point of the entire company the last week including invading Smackdown and Raw. On top of that they bring established main roster superstars like Styles and Balor onto NXT and guess what? They still didnt win the ratings battle.

There were plenty of people predicting that this would be the week NXT won in the ratings because of all this and it still didnt happen. Is it a little disappointing that Dynamite wasnt back closer to 1m this week? Sure. 

But let's not try to change the narrative completely. 6 head to head matchups and 6 wins. NXT should be getting closer or even winning with all this shit their doing, instead people are trying to flip it.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> The Q1 is the number at the very beginning of the show and not at the end of the first match + there was a commercial.


Q1 is the first 15 minutes of the show. Q2 is the next 15, of which 10 minutes were taken up by Cody, and it lost viewers.

Cody was also in the least watched segment of last week's episode, and his video package from 2 weeks ago lost viewers.

The writing is on the wall.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Q1 is the first 15 minutes of the show. Q2 is the next 15, of which 10 minutes were taken up by Cody, and it lost viewers.
> 
> Cody was also in the least watched segment of last week's episode, and his video package from 2 weeks ago lost viewers.
> 
> The writing is on the wall.


Oh ok that's how it work


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Show was the best yet. Started with a fun match, excellent Cody promo, hilarious Jericho package/promo, main event with wild west type of ending. Sold me the fuck out of the PPV. I can't remember the last time I was like "man I'm looking forward to this PPV".

Ratings could and should be a little higher but honestly I thought this was NXT's chance to pop a win. NXT is so bland and boring compared to this.


----------



## Bubbly

Joe Gill said:


> Tony needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who cheer for the same pointless random dives by the flippy dudes. Casual fans arent interested in that...... they want DRAMA. MJF should have his own segment.... more in ring promos... more shoot interviews...more brawls. No one cares about female japanese wresltling or midgets doing ballet. More Moxley, more MJF, more Jericho.
> 
> Give the fans drama and controversy... quit pandering to the geeks who like to go "ooooooh" when someone kicks out of a finisher 10 times during a match.


Absolutely this, tbh.


----------



## kingnoth1n

AEWMoxley said:


> Q1 is the first 15 minutes of the show. Q2 is the next 15, of which 10 minutes were taken up by Cody, and it lost viewers.
> 
> Cody was also in the least watched segment of last week's episode, and his video package from 2 weeks ago lost viewers.
> 
> The writing is on the wall.


Q2 : 959K (Cody interview) down 18k

Cody driving down ratings Ouch. 

Remember when this forum said Spears was over?

Q6 : 698k (Brandi promo and Spears vs Cutler) down 100k

Go home show too for ppv. Not a good look.


----------



## HankHill_85

I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but when you switch off from all the ratings and viewership talk and start a conversation about which show is giving a better return on investment, you actually gotta give the nod to NXT because it's much cheaper to produce, and in that regard, it's been winning all this time.


----------



## kingnoth1n

HankHill_85 said:


> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but when you switch off from all the ratings and viewership talk and start a conversation about which show is giving a better return on investment, you actually gotta give the nod to NXT because it's much cheaper to produce, and in that regard, it's been winning all this time.


The ghosts of the past are rearing their heads, because It seems too that NXT is just focusing on putting on a good product, while AEW takes pop shots weekly (WCW did the same thing). Cody had to get in his lines, grand standing and hot dogging. While he was doing that though, 18k were hitting click.


----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> AEW Numbers per quarter :
> 
> Quarter 1 : 976K
> Q2 : 959K (Cody interview) down 18k
> Q3 : 803K (Private Party vs Dark order) down 156K
> Q4 : 827k (end of PP vs DO + Jéricho video package) up 24K
> Q5 : 798K (women match) down 29k
> Q6 : 698k (Brandi promo and Spears vs Cutler) down 100k
> Q7 : 739K (Mox vs Omega video package and start of the main event) up 40K
> Q8 : 768K (end of main event + brawl) up 29K
> 
> Meltzer said that the people who stopped watching AEW didn't switch to NXT.
> He also said that the video packages hurt AEW (less interesting than matches)
> 18-34 demo : up for Cody, Riho and main event (which did better than the main event of NXT)
> 35-49 demo : Same.
> 
> Women 18-34: AEW didn't have any high spot (more Watch the main event of NXT)
> W 35-49 : The only strong segment was the main event (more Watch the main event of AEW)
> 
> Men 18-34 : Cody promo, riho's match and the main event
> men 35-49 : Cody promo, a bit of growth for PP vs DO and the main event (more Watch the ME of NXT)
> 
> So the reasons for the semi bad-ok rating: Video packages, PP vs DO and Spears vs Cutler.


How can he say the video packages were a negative when two of the segments that increased were ones with video packages?


----------



## Zappers

kingfrass44 said:


> You're trying to find excuses.


Trying to find excuses for what? Please explain.


----------



## Whysoserious?

When’s the ratings out ?


----------



## kingnoth1n

ClintDagger said:


> How can he say the video packages were a negative when two of the segments that increased were ones with video packages?


Yeah thats just a spin based on his biasedness. Grasping for straws. How can you sit here and say that matches are more interesting when your biggest hit was TDO. lol. 

Doesn't explain this either

October 2 Episode: 1.409 million viewers (premiere episode)
October 9 Episode: 1.018 million viewers (on TNT, 122k on truTV)
October 16 Episode: 1.014 million viewers
October 23 Episode: 963,000 viewers
October 30 Episode: 789,000 viewers with a 0.33 rating in the 18-49 demographic
November 6 Episode: 822,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic

Viewers dropping at a rapid pace weekly with no World Series anymore as an excuse.


----------



## Zappers

Jonhern said:


> Yeah we have no idea if they are losing boat loads of money. For all we know the talent contracts didn't start paying out until October and everything prior was on a per show bases like Indy promotions. They are doing very well with attendance, more than the wwe average, and have good demo ratings and have done well on thier first two ppv. They are a startup so likely not in the black yet but to say they are losing a boatloads is an exaggeration. Except for a few guys I doubt these guys have huge contracts either. If they did they wouldn't be busting thier asses still doing Indy shows.


Ok, an exaggeration. fair Enough. But they are paying out large sums of money to talent, for less work. They are very lenient with the scheduling, less dates for talent. Fewer restrictions. It's a club over there. All the friends of the top talent like Cody are getting cash hand over fist, while taking advantage of an overeager fanboy with a father with very deep pockets. Who btw was against the entire idea, but after begging and using WWE deal with FOX as leverage, convinced the father to giving in. They are giving away tickets for under $10. That's why they able to fill the small arenas that have been at for the TNT shows. Same thing WCW used to do.


----------



## kingfrass44

Zappers said:


> Ok, an exaggeration. fair Enough. But they are paying out large sums of money to talent, for less work. They are very lenient with the scheduling, less dates for talent. Fewer restrictions. It's a club over there. All the friends of the top talent like Cody are getting cash hand over fist, while taking advantage of an overeager fanboy with a father with very deep pockets. Who btw was against the entire idea, but after begging and using WWE deal with FOX as leverage, convinced the father to giving in. They are giving away tickets for under $10. That's why they able to fill the small arenas that have been at for the TNT shows. Same thing WCW used to do.


You ignorant


----------



## Best Bout Machine

kingnoth1n said:


> Yeah thats just a spin based on his biasedness. Grasping for straws. How can you sit here and say that matches are more interesting when your biggest hit was TDO. lol.
> 
> Doesn't explain this either
> 
> October 2 Episode: 1.409 million viewers (premiere episode)
> October 9 Episode: 1.018 million viewers (on TNT, 122k on truTV)
> October 16 Episode: 1.014 million viewers
> October 23 Episode: 963,000 viewers
> October 30 Episode: 789,000 viewers with a 0.33 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> November 6 Episode: 822,000 viewers with a 0.35 rating in the 18-49 demographic
> 
> *Viewers dropping at a rapid pace weekly with no World Series anymore as an excuse.*


Yet they had an increased viewership this week. Are you even trying?


----------



## kingnoth1n

Best Bout Machine said:


> Yet they had an increased viewership this week. Are you even trying?


Oh yeah the Holiday show, we can include that, luls! Losing viewers on average per week. 1.4 mil to 800k. Can you explain that?


----------



## BigCy

rbl85 said:


> They didn't say that.


Lol, I thought you were leaving? I'm glad you didn't because I think you bring up good points sometimes and I think everyone here should have a voice, just thought it was weird that you came back so fast...welcome back!


----------



## Best Bout Machine

kingnoth1n said:


> Oh yeah the Holiday show, we can include that, luls! Losing viewers on average per week. 1.4 mil to 800k. Can you explain that?


October 2 Episode: Debut episode
October 9 Episode: Expected loss after debut episode; 2 MLB playoff games
October 16 Episode: A mere loss of 4k viewers which is irrelevant
October 23 Episode: Game 2 of the World Series; start of the NBA season; small loss of 41k which is nothing to worry about
October 30 Episode: Game 7 of a historic World Series
November 6 Episode: Overall viewership increased; key demo viewership increased

Pretty simple stuff here, chief.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

HankHill_85 said:


> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but when you switch off from all the ratings and viewership talk and start a conversation about which show is giving a better return on investment, you actually gotta give the nod to NXT because it's much cheaper to produce, and in that regard, it's been winning all this time.


You recon that’s true with 150 people cooling their heels in the performance center, all on contract


----------



## BigCy

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Let me share a bit of pop psychology with you.
> 
> You only ever listen to someone after they use the word 'but' - because that is how they truly feel
> 
> Anything before 'but' is just manipulation to either soften the blow or make them feel they are on your side or justify their own opinion
> 
> 'I'm not racist, but...' 'I'm not saying she's a slut, but...'
> 
> This is true for everything in life
> 
> Criticism is always fine - when it is valid, impartial and something that legitimately can be changed. Anything else means simply what is being presented is not to your individual taste.
> 
> 'The music is too soft' / 'they should not bring the dog out when there's pyro' / 'they might have too many roll-up wins' -- criticism
> 
> *'I am and AEW fan and I want them to succeed, BUT...I hate the Young Bucks and their flippy outlaw mudshow wrestling' (for example) is never a criticism... that is an opinion / and one that is largely unchangeable as that is their style*
> 
> So what... now we have to keep on listening to the same 'opinions disguised as criticism 15 times a day'
> 
> nah


I get what you're trying to say BUT...lol, just playing a bit. I still can't say I fully agree though. You're right about the psychology stuff, especially when you're talking to a bunch of women or people who don't have an analytical mind, for instance, you could say "honey, you look absolutely breathtaking tonight and I am so amazed at how great your smile looks BUT there's a ketchup stain on your shirt." I know the only thing they'll care about is the dang ketchup stain and they will think they are ugly as a result. 

Your example could still be considered a criticism just not brought up as cut and dry as your examples. For instance in the bolded you could just as easily surmise that the only thing they didn't like about AEW is the Young Bucks. Yeah it's more of an opinion and it is brought up in a negative way but maybe that's their way of saying "AEW, please no more flippy stuff." 

Besides it seems strange that it's ok for people to have criticisms but you don't like when they have opinions? Seems a little backwards. People disagree with me all the time and have different opinions than me but it doesn't mean I'm going to get upset at them for sharing it or go hide in the corner like a frightened child. Contrary opinions is what gives substance to discussions. I guess maybe I'm just too old (37) (or mature) to think that if someone doesn't agree with me then that is cause for me to block/ignore people so I can be "safe" inside my bubble where nothing negative comes up and then making an announcement about it to "well that sure showed them!" Like anyone is really going to care. Speaking of psychology, that to me seems a bit....crazy...and shows classic signs of "little man syndrome" and that some people don't belong out in the 'real' world. It seems like those people that live in their own little world and they don't want ANYTHING to disrupt their precious happy bubble. It used to just make me roll my eyes but now I'm legit concerned for some of the people on here.

Inb4 Blocked/Ignored/Added to the "list"


----------



## MetalKiwi

I think a good group of people thought CM Punk would be on their shows.... or these other rumoured names.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

Overall viewership increased to 822k viewers, but it is still majorly down from the 963k show. No excuses viewership is falling and people should be concerned this trend doesn’t continue because in the long run they are screwed. It’s probably why Orton may have not signed by looking at the ratings. 

At least AEW is doing better than 2016 ROH, Impact and LU. But it needs to improve big time.


----------



## Death Rider

HankHill_85 said:


> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but when you switch off from all the ratings and viewership talk and start a conversation about which show is giving a better return on investment, you actually gotta give the nod to NXT because it's much cheaper to produce, and in that regard, it's been winning all this time.


Nxt has been a loss leader for a long time so I don't think this is true at all...


----------



## Whysoserious?

Matthew Castillo said:


> So probably cut back on the weird Brandi video packages, and probably working on repackaging The Dark Order or keeping them mostly to Dark. I think they are talented in the ring, but the gimmick had trouble getting over during the insider heavy pre-TV days, and aren't good for the TV audience.


Cut back goofy acts like Orange Cassidy too


----------



## TAC41

It’s hilarious that the only reason AEW managed to gain viewers this week is because they dropped 200k last week. And people are actually treating that as a positive? Lmao. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kingnoth1n

TAC41 said:


> It’s hilarious that the only reason AEW managed to gain viewers this week is because they dropped 200k last week. And people are actually treating that as a positive? Lmao.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah completely delusional but whats the point with some of these people? lol. No one wants to explain the 200k drop from week 2/3 to now. lol.

Everything I pointed out earlier comparing the ghosts of pasts is 100 as far as im concerned; and they need to get the hook on all these tag teams, especially the failing dark order


----------



## fabi1982

domotime2 said:


> But you have to realize that TV execs aren't JUST looking at the basic tv ratings to justify decision making. They're not stupid. IT's not 1997. There's a whole array of different platforms now, a lot of them with DVR's, and a thing called "+3", when they look at ratings +3 days after the live date as well...which is something I don't know how to find. That's the only issue when fans discuss 'ratings'. It's not an accurate portrayal of what everyone is looking at in terms of success.
> 
> Like i've said a trillion times, I haven't watched wrestling LIVE in a decade...and I know I'm not alone...and i know TV execs get that.


So you skip the advertisement, so you are not important for the channel. What does your dvr viewing help them make money? Thats why thy dont care about +3 and thats why the numbers are hard to find, because nobody cares.


----------



## fabi1982

LifeInCattleClass said:


> You recon that’s true with 150 people cooling their heels in the performance center, all on contract


Can you back that number with the 150 names?


----------



## The Wood

A lot of people throwing tantrums because people are calling a spade a spade. “Oh, it’s ridiculous that people are saying it’s over for AEW.” Is there anyone actually saying that? I can’t see a single one in here. Y’all more annoying than the people being honest about AEW.

And, once again, it should be pointed out that it is their fault they are niche. That is their presentation. I keep hearing about these “great shows,” but that’s a really subjective opinion. The people who said “this shit is going to cost them,” because they can look at history and use reason are being proven correct. You might like this admittedly niche shit, but it turns off a lot of people and it’s not going to hook new viewers and it’s going to be hard to retain the ones that are giving them a chance. *This has been the concern that people get called trolls for.*

You’re looking at about 43k domestic PPV buys for Full Gear, by the way. Assuming that’s a 50/50 split with Turner, that’s about $1.125 million each way for the show. I’m not sure how much they are sinking into their production costs, but that would likely cover it on Turner’s end. It’s not spectacular though.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

To much Cody. Hes a 3 star worker and a wwe low card dork.

And to many awful gimmicks that should not be on tv. Dark order? Horrible.

Orange Cassidy I love the guy really but theres no tv explanation for why its so silly. Same with others.

The women? Omg i thought i was watching japanese sub/dom porn with all the screaming noises. So bad.


----------



## ElTerrible

I have no idea how much longer Cena´s contract with WWE is, but he´s the one for AEW. Given that TNT is part of the TimeWarner family, they can throw some movie roles his way, accommodate a light schedule and Khan can actually outbid WWE. Hollywood Cena is the only reasonable option for AEW to move the needle. Get Rusev&Cesaro to suit up and then bring in Cena. 

Otherwise they´ll just have to slowly grind away like TNA did and then not f*** it up.


----------



## TAC41

ElTerrible said:


> I have no idea how much longer Cena´s contract with WWE is, but he´s the one for AEW. Given that TNT is part of the TimeWarner family, they can throw some movie roles his way, accommodate a light schedule and Khan can actually outbid WWE. Hollywood Cena is the only reasonable option for AEW to move the needle. Get Rusev&Cesaro to suit up and then bring in Cena.
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise they´ll just have to slowly grind away like TNA did and then not f*** it up.




Cena isn’t going to AEW. Nobody from WWE is going to jump to a ship that is already sinking when they are guaranteed big money to stay put. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## looper007

Seen as I put half of people on ignore on the last page. I may be right in saying they are all going that "AEW is doomed", is it that far fetched to say lol.


----------



## V-Trigger

HankHill_85 said:


> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but when you switch off from all the ratings and viewership talk and start a conversation about which show is giving a better return on investment, you actually gotta give the nod to NXT because it's much cheaper to produce, and in that regard, it's been winning all this time.


You realize that NXT costs USA more than AEW costs TNT right?.


----------



## V-Trigger

TAC41 said:


> Cena isn’t going to AEW. Nobody from WWE is going to jump to a ship that is already sinking when they are guaranteed big money to stay put.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Gonna love every laugh when The Revival show up at Double or Nothing 2.


----------



## thorn123

Quality does not always equal popularity, in all facets of life. If someone produces the best drink in the world, it’s never going to be more popular than Coca Cola. I don’t care if AEW doesn’t catch WWE (I enjoy both), just hoping it stays in business.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Love the contrarians in typical form thinking a month in that AEW has to be WCW or even TNA for some reason with the current climate of TV wrestling. It's almost like their initial point comes off disingenuous but never that, I'm sure. :dino

Good for AEW and NXT to see increases now that there is really no strong sports competition. As I have continued to keep saying, AEW is doing a fine job delivering quality shows every week as must-see television. No need for them to pull any panic switches or make irrational moves that have curses promotions of the past. As much as NXT closed the gap and increased their viewership and demo, it took showcases on SD and RAW (along with main roster inclusions from the OC) for NXT to being competing range with AEW and they still didn't eclipse them, even if it was close. The Survivor Series novelty will wear off in about three weeks when it is over.

Luckily for AEW, they are self-aware enough to know this and just need to remain to put on their show and not worry about NXT (as they have done since debuting on TNT). They are beginning to pace their TV shows better by the week (whether you're a "workrate" guy, "promo" guy, or just love variety in general). Next week with the fallout of Full Gear and hoping they put on a spectacular show, they should see a bump.


----------



## LongPig666

"the granularity analytics of specific demographic cohorts broken down over time indicates that blah blah blah.........". Is this how WWE fans console themselves that a new wrestling show, barely 6 weeks old, is f*cking slaying (in terms of content quality) their clapped out cuck obsessed sports entertainment 'show'!

Besides doesn't it worry WWE fans that they are having to bring in main eventers to prop up NXT with no actual effect? What does that say about Raw and SD!



TheGreatBanana said:


> It’s probably why Orton may have not signed by looking at the ratings.


Orton re-signed with WWE because no one else in their right mind would pay (reportedly $5m a year - for at least another 5 years) for a long time irrelevant, one dimensional has-been hack. Not because of ratings!


----------



## Schwartzxz

:flair4

the only enjoyment I get from this "WAR" is reading some of the comments here. its ridiculous. what a great win for AEW. they lost almost half the viewers since the first episode but hey they won. mock NXT all you want for not being able to get better rating this week than AEW but if it continues this way soon NXT will be beating them every week. who knows whats gonna happen in a year. if AEW will even still be around. Im sure somebody will reply and say "of course they will" well lets wait and see.


----------



## kingfrass44

Schwartzxz said:


> :flair4
> 
> the only enjoyment I get from this "WAR" is reading some of the comments here. its ridiculous. what a great win for AEW. they lost almost half the viewers since the first episode but hey they won. mock NXT all you want for not being able to get better rating this week than AEW but if it continues this way soon NXT will be beating them every week. who knows whats gonna happen in a year. if AEW will even still be around. Im sure somebody will reply and say "of course they will" well lets wait and see.


NXT will not beating aew 
nxt bring aj styles And they failed.
You always mean AEW better rating this week than nxt and beating them every week


----------



## rbl85

BigCy said:


> Lol, I thought you were leaving? I'm glad you didn't because I think you bring up good points sometimes and I think everyone here should have a voice, just thought it was weird that you came back so fast...welcome back!


Well i had the infos about the quarter numbers so i thought it will be better if i share those here.


----------



## rbl85

CenaBoy4Life said:


> To much Cody. Hes a 3 star worker and a wwe low card dork.
> 
> And to many awful gimmicks that should not be on tv. Dark order? Horrible.
> 
> Orange Cassidy I love the guy really but theres no tv explanation for why its so silly. Same with others.
> 
> The women? Omg i thought i was watching japanese sub/dom porn with all the screaming noises. So bad.



Cody appeard for less than 10min

Orange is the guy that people who don't watch wrestling like the most.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah reading through this thread every week after the ratings come out has only lowered my faith in wrestling fans.


----------



## looper007

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah reading through this thread every week after the ratings come out has only lowered my faith in wrestling fans.


It's tough considering half of the people complaining only turn up when ratings are announced and complain about a show most of them don't watch.


----------



## Taroostyles

looper007 said:


> It's tough considering half of the people complaining only turn up when ratings are announced and complain about a show most of them don't watch.


Yeah its pretty hilarious


----------



## Shaun_27

Does anyone with TV experience/knowledge of the ratings help me out? We don't really do ratings in the UK. I assume it's normal for a brand new show to decline in viewers? So if that's expected, it is not a "loss", more like this is the stable number and the first few weeks are the anomilies?


----------



## Taroostyles

Shaun_27 said:


> Does anyone with TV experience/knowledge of the ratings help me out? We don't really do ratings in the UK. I assume it's normal for a brand new show to decline in viewers? So if that's expected, it is not a "loss", more like this is the stable number and the first few weeks are the anomilies?


Correct. It was pretty much always expected that the show would settle around 800k-1m viewers after the 1st couple of weeks. 

This is nothing out of the ordinary but the apologists would have you believe the sky is falling. 

Now they will need a big angle or a huge singing if they want to be up around 1.5 again.


----------



## The Wood

ElTerrible said:


> I have no idea how much longer Cena´s contract with WWE is, but he´s the one for AEW. Given that TNT is part of the TimeWarner family, they can throw some movie roles his way, accommodate a light schedule and Khan can actually outbid WWE. Hollywood Cena is the only reasonable option for AEW to move the needle. Get Rusev&Cesaro to suit up and then bring in Cena.
> 
> Otherwise they´ll just have to slowly grind away like TNA did and then not f*** it up.


Cena is about the only guy in WWE other than Undertaker that has not looked into AEW. I mean, weirder things have happened, but barely. 



looper007 said:


> Seen as I put half of people on ignore on the last page. I may be right in saying they are all going that "AEW is doomed", is it that far fetched to say lol.


It’s really quite immature to go around bragging about ignoring people. Why do you want people to know so badly? 



V-Trigger said:


> HankHill_85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is the AEW ratings thread, but when you switch off from all the ratings and viewership talk and start a conversation about which show is giving a better return on investment, you actually gotta give the nod to NXT because it's much cheaper to produce, and in that regard, it's been winning all this time.
> 
> 
> 
> You realize that NXT costs USA more than AEW costs TNT right?.
Click to expand...

And NXT will be worth its money and AEW will be worth its. 



V-Trigger said:


> TAC41 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cena isn’t going to AEW. Nobody from WWE is going to jump to a ship that is already sinking when they are guaranteed big money to stay put.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna love every laugh when The Revival show up at Double or Nothing 2.
Click to expand...

I love me some Revival, and as of a few months it was definitely a lock. I’m not going to be surprised if Orton pulls a Styles and gets them to sign new WWE deals and get featured alongside him though.

But even if they do show up, The Revival are not John Cena, lol. They will wrestle The Bucks and the matches will actually probably disappoint because I’m not sure The Bucks can work that style, and then what? 



DaveRA said:


> Quality does not always equal popularity, in all facets of life. If someone produces the best drink in the world, it’s never going to be more popular than Coca Cola. I don’t care if AEW doesn’t catch WWE (I enjoy both), just hoping it stays in business.


No, popularity and quality are not synonymous, but in some cases there is correlation. The best booked show is going to start turning the tables. 



LIL' WINNING FOOT said:


> Love the contrarians in typical form thinking a month in that AEW has to be WCW or even TNA for some reason with the current climate of TV wrestling. It's almost like their initial point comes off disingenuous but never that, I'm sure. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/actDb2x.png" border="0" alt="" title="dino" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Good for AEW and NXT to see increases now that there is really no strong sports competition. As I have continued to keep saying, AEW is doing a fine job delivering quality shows every week as must-see television. No need for them to pull any panic switches or make irrational moves that have curses promotions of the past. As much as NXT closed the gap and increased their viewership and demo, it took showcases on SD and RAW (along with main roster inclusions from the OC) for NXT to being competing range with AEW and they still didn't eclipse them, even if it was close. The Survivor Series novelty will wear off in about three weeks when it is over.
> 
> Luckily for AEW, they are self-aware enough to know this and just need to remain to put on their show and not worry about NXT (as they have done since debuting on TNT). They are beginning to pace their TV shows better by the week (whether you're a "workrate" guy, "promo" guy, or just love variety in general). Next week with the fallout of Full Gear and hoping they put on a spectacular show, they should see a bump.


Nice to see the contrarians coming in to condescend people whose opinions actually seem to match the reality of what is happening. But continue to put your fingers in your ears and yell “LA-LA-LA-LA-LA!”

AEW doesn’t need to change to start doing stupid shit. They have been delivering that through everything outside the main event. 



LongPig666 said:


> "the granularity analytics of specific demographic cohorts broken down over time indicates that blah blah blah.........". Is this how WWE fans console themselves that a new wrestling show, barely 6 weeks old, is f*cking slaying (in terms of content quality) their clapped out cuck obsessed sports entertainment 'show'!
> 
> Besides doesn't it worry WWE fans that they are having to bring in main eventers to prop up NXT with no actual effect? What does that say about Raw and SD!
> 
> 
> 
> TheGreatBanana said:
> 
> 
> 
> It’s probably why Orton may have not signed by looking at the ratings.
> 
> 
> 
> Orton re-signed with WWE because no one else in their right mind would pay (reportedly $5m a year - for at least another 5 years) for a long time irrelevant, one dimensional has-been hack. Not because of ratings!
Click to expand...

One of my favorite excuses is the “they’re new!” one. They’ve lost people. That’s got nothing to do with being new. How on earth do you foresee them getting hotter with their current philosophy? It makes no sense. 



Schwartzxz said:


> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/7He8MbM.png" border="0" alt="" title="Flair" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> the only enjoyment I get from this "WAR" is reading some of the comments here. its ridiculous. what a great win for AEW. they lost almost half the viewers since the first episode but hey they won. mock NXT all you want for not being able to get better rating this week than AEW but if it continues this way soon NXT will be beating them every week. who knows whats gonna happen in a year. if AEW will even still be around. Im sure somebody will reply and say "of course they will" well lets wait and see.


The thing is, when it comes to Nielsen estimates, 9,000 is really a wash. It could be that more people watched NXT with the number that close. And then you’ve got the large chunk of AEW viewers who will no doubt watch it on the Network. It’s pretty safe to say that NXT is probably the more viewed show this week, 



rbl85 said:


> CenaBoy4Life said:
> 
> 
> 
> To much Cody. Hes a 3 star worker and a wwe low card dork.
> 
> And to many awful gimmicks that should not be on tv. Dark order? Horrible.
> 
> Orange Cassidy I love the guy really but theres no tv explanation for why its so silly. Same with others.
> 
> The women? Omg i thought i was watching japanese sub/dom porn with all the screaming noises. So bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cody appeard for less than 10min
> 
> Orange is the guy that people who don't watch wrestling like the most.
Click to expand...

Great strategy to put the guy people who don’t watch wrestling like on a wrestling program. 



Taroostyles said:


> Yeah reading through this thread every week after the ratings come out has only lowered my faith in wrestling fans.


You know what lowers my faith in wrestling fans? Their condescending attitudes to everyone who doesn’t get in with the groupthink and immediately blow a product just because it is Anything Else. And this is only compounded by them still not getting it even when it smacks them in the face. “Haha, look at all these silly people.” Yes, the silly people who knew this would happen and you still call silly _when it happens_.


----------



## fabi1982

looper007 said:


> It's tough considering half of the people complaining only turn up when ratings are announced and complain about a show most of them don't watch.


Honestly most of the users you call out are not complaining about the show and watch it. They just give some insights why they think the declining viewership isnt good. At the end we are in a discussion forum and not in the pampering kids group?

As of now the AEW excuses for lower ratings was:

MLB
Started late so people watched on some other app
NXT invasion
SS built
cooled off
"it actually increased this week"

Looking through the last pages here, this is the people who laughed their asses of when Smackdown did 800k and knew FOX will cancel them tomorrow. 

The same people coming into the RAW ratings thread and just laugh about the viewership and call NFL and other events "stupid excuses, the show just sucked" and even in the discussion threads they are there telling people they didnt watch it but think it sucked anyways.

The same people who insult everyone who doesnt scream "please marry me Cody".

Maybe this is the reason "we" dont write in every other thread here, because any negative comment will be countered with a "troll", "you suck", "go away", "you are stupid" and so on and so on.

I watched every episode so far and still can have the opinion that it seems to not attract the people they wanted, the lapsed fans and if they did the first couple episodes, they were gone after the 4th episode and decided not to come back.

If I would have the time I can show you the comment "will settle around 1million" from nearly every hardcore AEW fan in here, which now say "will settle around 800k", so your opinions can be negative as well and this is fine then? Oh and I like the comments after episode one where some in here were saying "give it a year and AEW beats RAW".

And again everyone was making fun (and still making fun) of NXT and the lower ratings than AEW and that is fine?

"We" dont bring that up most of the time, we discuss (as it should be) the AEW ratings. But this doesnt seem to be the thing which we should do here?


----------



## Whysoserious?

Cody has never been likable to me. He’s definitely not a main event talent either as he would like you to believe


----------



## The Wood

Whysoserious? said:


> Cody is never been likable to me. He’s definitely not a main event talent either as he would like you to believe


I like Cody fine, but I do wonder how much of this is true in an “R-Truth is one of the most entertaining things on Raw” way. Do people realize this might be a problem?

I often get this feeling that Cody is playing main eventer. Do general audiences perceive him as a main eventer, or as a WWE mid-carder playing the role?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> Yeah its pretty hilarious


Ive watched every minute of every show. Some people here have to brushback against the orgy that is the forum with some criticisms.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1192459760076914690









Discuss


----------



## The Quintessential Mark

Well guess WWE can have a laugh at the office about how paranoid they have been lately.


----------



## RainmakerV2

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

In.





Before. 



The.



Lock.


----------



## Death Rider

Isn't there already a ticket sales thread for this stuff?

On the topic, this is why people saying to do bigger arenas were dumb. They are a new company and people expect the fucking world way too early. Hopefully it is just a blip but if it is not, smaller arenas is not a bad idea.


----------



## kingnoth1n

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I'm just reporting the info.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Well technically it's a bit less than third (not half)

All those sections = more or less 2K

The arena was set for a bit more than 8K


----------



## Shaun_27

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

The tweet has a point, we need to be consistent when discussing the shows otherwise there is no point.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

They deserve some shit for this, fairs fair.

But they're a new company, they're not going to do massive numbers right from day one.

And Pro Wrestling is undeniably dead. We've had about 15 years of the WWE shitting all over Pro Wrestling fans and doing all they cna to drive away their own fanbase. Pro Wrestling just isn't cool anymore.


----------



## Death Rider

Taroostyles said:


> Shaun_27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone with TV experience/knowledge of the ratings help me out? We don't really do ratings in the UK. I assume it's normal for a brand new show to decline in viewers? So if that's expected, it is not a "loss", more like this is the stable number and the first few weeks are the anomilies?
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. It was pretty much always expected that the show would settle around 800k-1m viewers after the 1st couple of weeks.
> 
> This is nothing out of the ordinary but the apologists would have you believe the sky is falling.
> 
> Now they will need a big angle or a huge singing if they want to be up around 1.5 again.
Click to expand...

Exactly. It is mix of some people expecting too much, some trolls and some people who legit don't have a clue. People have no patience and expect everything to be a success now. Being successful takes time


----------



## DOPA

Death Rider said:


> Exactly. It is mix of some people expecting too much, some trolls and some people who legit don't have a clue. People have no patience and expect everything to be a success now.* Being successful takes time*


Which is what I said earlier in the thread....but people have their narratives and want to stick to them. Helps them make themselves feel good when they've been "proven right".


----------



## Death Rider

Shaun_27 said:


> The tweet has a point, we need to be consistent when discussing the shows otherwise there is no point.





Eva MaRIHyse said:


> They deserve some shit for this, fairs fair.
> 
> But they're a new company, they're not going to do massive numbers right from day one.
> 
> And Pro Wrestling is undeniably dead. We've had about 15 years of the WWE shitting all over Pro Wrestling fans and doing all they cna to drive away their own fanbase. Pro Wrestling just isn't cool anymore.


Discussing it is fair and so is criticising it (and it is not good this is not a defence at all) however one is a brand new company and the other is a global brand around for many years. It is not really the same tbh unless you expect aew to have wwe's fanbase from the start. Comparing the two does not make sense to me even if both are bad for the company.


----------



## lesenfanteribles

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Is it time to be worried? :lmao

I think they should settle for smaller arenas at first. If that's a big ass arena, of course that will happen now unless if that's even a smaller arena and it's tarpamania as well then yeah..looks bad :lmao

It's also hard to compare the startup company from a global brand with light-years ahead of a headstart. To be fair, it should be a learning experience for both. I don't know who's taking the notes though so that they won't have to have this kind of thing again.


----------



## kingnoth1n

Definitely not a good look.


----------



## kingfrass44

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> They deserve some shit for this, fairs fair.
> 
> But they're a new company, they're not going to do massive numbers right from day one.
> 
> And Pro Wrestling is undeniably dead. We've had about 15 years of the WWE shitting all over Pro Wrestling fans and doing all they cna to drive away their own fanbase. Pro Wrestling just isn't cool anymore.


There is no war on wwe and own fanbase 
WWE monopoly company and wwe fanboys Very toxic


----------



## virus21

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Well AEW shouldn't go for large arenas and expect 90s era numbers. No company should these days.


----------



## looper007

Death Rider said:


> Exactly. It is mix of some people expecting too much, some trolls and some people who legit don't have a clue. People have no patience and expect everything to be a success now. Being successful takes time


I think a lot of the trolls on here, and I call them trolls cause that's what they are. They were going to hate on AEW no matter what. You see a thread already started by one of them about tarp and crap like that. They badly want it to fail, they can taste it. Nothing about patience or wanting it to be a success.

If you see anyone say "I'm a AEW fan but..." you know they want it to fail.


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

They sold out some places, and they didn't sell out one and the usual trolls are all out with their threads acting like it's a disaster. Silly thread started by Silly so called wrestling fans wanting a company to fail. End off.

Tell me OP, oh wait I put you on ignore. Tell me when WWE had a crowd as hot as the one on Wednesday. It's been a long time.


----------



## fabi1982

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Death Rider said:


> Discussing it is fair and so is criticising it (and it is not good this is not a defence at all) however one is a brand new company and the other is a global brand around for many years. It is not really the same tbh unless you expect aew to have wwe's fanbase from the start. Comparing the two does not make sense to me even if both are bad for the company.


Interestingly AEW fans say WWE is dying after they drove fans away for the last 15 years. But it is fine if the fanbase which AEW was expecting (honestly why would you go for such a venue) is not interested and it is just a startup and so on, when they were selling out the first shows in hours? And if I remember correctly this was the Rhodes home show (they mentioned it couple times during the show).

So to sum this up, what WWE took 15 years just took AEW 6 weeks? This is the key point to see here, right?

Honestly this for me is the biggest issue with AEW, they are expecting too much. TNT may be fine with the numbers and whoever else, but AEW itself should change things soon. Going for smaller arenas is the first step. And I still see people making fun of lowered ticket sales for WWE when they do more than 4 times the shows and still have an average of 4.400 per event. AEW couldnt even keep the hype going for more than 5 weeks?!


----------



## fabi1982

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



looper007 said:


> They sold out some places, and they didn't sell out one and the usual trolls are all out with their threads acting like it's a disaster. Silly thread started by Silly so called wrestling fans wanting a company to fail. End off.
> 
> Tell me OP, oh wait I put you on ignore. Tell me when WWE had a crowd as hot as the one on Wednesday. It's been a long time.


I´m not OP but as said in other threads this is really the issue with the AEW fans, you dont like something and whoop call OP silly. Why is he? He is claming facts and this was the second show not selling out and this was the show in Codys hometown/area?!

And honestly if you watch NXT each week, the crowd is always that hot. And yes, it is just 1.500 seats, but they are sold out every show available (18th of december) and the ones going on sale soon will be too. 

And everyone was making fun of not going to arenas with the live NXT, but honestly the crowd is the best it has ever been with no tapings and just one show live a week. And you can´t deny that.


----------



## kingnoth1n

looper007 said:


> They sold out some places, and they didn't sell out one and the usual trolls are all out with their threads acting like it's a disaster. Silly thread started by Silly so called wrestling fans wanting a company to fail. End off.
> 
> Tell me OP, oh wait I put you on ignore. Tell me when WWE had a crowd as hot as the one on Wednesday. It's been a long time.


Why the attacks I’m just reporting info? I also have Aldis as my avatar and don’t watch WWE. Just Powerrr and occasionally Dynamite. But you can keep me on ignore I won’t lose sleep.


----------



## 304418

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

NJPW got around this by stating that they were going for a sports feel, hence why they did a show in a 20 000 seat arena when only 5000 were in attendance. Empty seats on live tv didn’t matter to them.

AEW could do something similar, if fans and critics alike are open minded to it.

Plus, remember pro wrestling isn’t seen as something that’s important to watch right now, compared with live sports. That’s something AEW has to work on and that will take some time.


----------



## deepelemblues

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Dumb thread


----------



## Miss Sally

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Game over man!!!

How long before Vince buys AEW!!?/?!11!


----------



## Stellar

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Fair criticism. AEW not able to fill in the seats consistently yet as we would like to see.

At the same time I can understand AEW wanting to seem "big league" right from the start instead of starting off in smaller places. As long as Tarp-A-Mania doesn't get any bigger and they hide it well on TV. I don't see it as a big issue yet though.


----------



## fabi1982

looper007 said:


> I think a lot of the trolls on here, and I call them trolls cause that's what they are. They were going to hate on AEW no matter what. You see a thread already started by one of them about tarp and crap like that. They badly want it to fail, they can taste it. Nothing about patience or wanting it to be a success.
> 
> If you see anyone say "I'm a AEW fan but..." you know they want it to fail.


Honestly I watched every BTE and was looking forward to every new epiosode and was looking very much forward to AEW being a good TV show. Although the Cody ego does a good job itself, you know what gives me hard times not hating AEW? It is this form section and seeing you guys acting like the SS back in 1939 in Germany and dont accept any other opinion than your own. Good thing you can only block us and not shoot us...

You dont even see the positives of a discussion because you dont want to discuss, you want to have your opinion. But maybe then just open up a website and block comments, because this is a forum, which was build to discussing a topic, in this case AEW...but anyways.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

It's just not cool anymore to be a wrestling fan.

Now in a lot of places people will make fun of you if you say that you're a wrestling fan.


----------



## NotGuilty

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

not even two months in and already starting :kobelol

Yall feel free to watch ALL out on the WWE network for only $9.99 in January


----------



## NXT Only

I’ve been too busy to watch live the last couple of weeks but I’ve stayed up to date at least a day or so later.


----------



## NXT Only

looper007 said:


> I think a lot of the trolls on here, and I call them trolls cause that's what they are. They were going to hate on AEW no matter what. You see a thread already started by one of them about tarp and crap like that. They badly want it to fail, they can taste it. Nothing about patience or wanting it to be a success.
> 
> If you see anyone say "I'm a AEW fan but..." you know they want it to fail.


I’ve avoided this place for that very reason. It’s all about what they hate or what they’re doing wrong. Nothing about the stories or characters. 

Just “I need promos” “orange Cassidy and marko suck” etc....


----------



## Dave Santos

rbl85 said:


> AEW Numbers per quarter :
> 
> Quarter 1 : 976K
> Q2 : 959K (Cody interview) down 18k
> Q3 : 803K (Private Party vs Dark order) down 156K
> Q4 : 827k (end of PP vs DO + Jéricho video package) up 24K
> Q5 : 798K (women match) down 29k
> Q6 : 698k (Brandi promo and Spears vs Cutler) down 100k
> Q7 : 739K (Mox vs Omega video package and start of the main event) up 40K
> Q8 : 768K (end of main event + brawl) up 29K
> 
> Meltzer said that the people who stopped watching AEW didn't switch to NXT.
> He also said that the video packages hurt AEW (less interesting than matches)
> 18-34 demo : up for Cody, Riho and main event (which did better than the main event of NXT)
> 35-49 demo : Same.
> 
> Women 18-34: AEW didn't have any high spot (more Watch the main event of NXT)
> W 35-49 : The only strong segment was the main event (more Watch the main event of AEW)
> 
> Men 18-34 : Cody promo, riho's match and the main event
> men 35-49 : Cody promo, a bit of growth for PP vs DO and the main event (more Watch the ME of NXT)
> 
> So the reasons for the semi bad-ok rating: Video packages, PP vs DO and Spears vs Cutler.


Well some of the video packages were up. I guess people are interested in certain video packages.


----------



## Carter84

I've just booked it for next week can't wait .
Peace


----------



## kingfrass44

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> I´m not OP but as said in other threads this is really the issue with the AEW fans, you dont like something and whoop call OP silly. Why is he? He is claming facts and this was the second show not selling out and this was the show in Codys hometown/area?!
> 
> And honestly if you watch NXT each week, the crowd is always that hot. And yes, it is just 1.500 seats, but they are sold out every show available (18th of december) and the ones going on sale soon will be too.
> 
> And everyone was making fun of not going to arenas with the live NXT, but honestly the crowd is the best it has ever been with no tapings and just one show live a week. And you can´t deny that.


Not second show not selling out
Where is your source 
showBefore past Close selling out
you trolls Without facts


----------



## Carter84

NXT Only said:


> I’ve been too busy to watch live the last couple of weeks but I’ve stayed up to date at least a day or so later.[/QUOTE
> 
> Same here bro in the UK it's officially on a Friday 11pm but with my fire stick I could watch a day early but since I'm just out of hospital and on permanent sick leave till next month I get tempted but don't. I watch aew dark in the same way as they give spoilers away bro.
> 
> Peace and enjoy the ppv!!


----------



## Geeee

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> I´m not OP but as said in other threads this is really the issue with the AEW fans, you dont like something and whoop call OP silly. Why is he? He is claming facts and this was the second show not selling out and this was the show in Codys hometown/area?!
> 
> And honestly if you watch NXT each week, the crowd is always that hot. And yes, it is just 1.500 seats, but they are sold out every show available (18th of december) and the ones going on sale soon will be too.
> 
> And everyone was making fun of not going to arenas with the live NXT, but honestly the crowd is the best it has ever been with no tapings and just one show live a week. And you can´t deny that.


Imagine advocating for selling 1/5th the number of tickets, so you can get a better seats sold ratio.


----------



## Rookie of the Year

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

The quality of AEW's product has me hoping that the tarping doesn't become a regular occurance for them. WWE get given shit for it because they are the bigger, established brand, but most importantly, they don't put the effort in, so they deserve to get punished for it by not filling arenas. The effort and energy put into the creative side of wrestling is non-existent for WWE. Meanwhile, AEW have gone out of their way to present compelling wrestling shows, and they should be rewarded for that with good business and selling as many seats as possible. It's not double standards, it's completely different contexts. It's the new, hungry product vs. "fuck you, we're WWE" mentality.

That all said, this weekend is the first PPV AEW have had with actual television build. Kinda crazy to think about. If Full Gear does well, the buzz spreads, and TNT keep the promotional machine going, I think things will be just fine.

Side note, if I was AEW, I wouldn't hit the panic button just yet and move to smaller arenas. The old saying "perception is reality" applies here, AEW have done a better job looking big time over the last 6 weeks just by running these arenas. One of the really jarring things about watching other "alternatives" to WWE over the past 20 years, like TNA and ROH, is that their shit looks small-time. With billionaire backing, they can eat a few shows where the houses aren't full for the longer term gains in perception.


----------



## Natecore

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

The trolls are out in full force.

That alone tells me AEW is doing great.

“Remember that time the tarp joke was running wild for a week making fun of publicly traded, billion dollar, accepts propaganda blood money WWE? I’m going to go to the AEW section and troll them because I’m jealous, bitter, angry and not funny.”

Pathetic :lmao


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Geeee said:


> Imagine advocating for selling 1/5th the number of tickets, so you can get a better seats sold ratio.


The funny thing is that Full sail is not 1 500 seats XD

It's 400 seats.


----------



## fabi1982

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



kingfrass44 said:


> Not second show not selling out
> Where is your source
> showBefore past Close selling out
> you trolls Without facts


The source is I watched all the shows and from what I saw on TV the last two eposides werent sellouts. So the source is my eyes. You can use them as well and see for yourself?!

EDIT: and what I read there are still 1000 tickets available for the PPV, which is basically their first PPV after they went live.


----------



## JonLeduc

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I didin't feel any of this on TV. The crowd was loud and into it.

That's what matters to me.

Better to have 5000 Fully commited fans than 12 000 sleepy Lafayette fans.


----------



## TAC41

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Careful, OP. You’re not allowed to criticize AEW on these boards. All the white knights come in and throw a tantrum while insulting you, and then the mods close the thread for “being too hostile.”

It’s a well rehearsed system to prevent any form of actual facts being posted here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## fabi1982

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Geeee said:


> Imagine advocating for selling 1/5th the number of tickets, so you can get a better seats sold ratio.


Doing my math. 1.500 for NXT, this weeks AEW did 5.000, so you say 1.5 is 1/5th of 5? 

And looking at the first show doing close to 15.000 and 5 shows in you can just do 5.000. With your math they just did 1/5th of the first show.

Just stating facts again.


----------



## kingnoth1n

TAC41 said:


> Careful, OP. You’re not allowed to criticize AEW on these boards. All the white knights come in and throw a tantrum while insulting you, and then the mods close the thread for “being too hostile.”
> 
> It’s a well rehearsed system to prevent any form of actual facts being posted here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just reporting info, heard to it was around 5k in attendence .


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> Doing my math. 1.500 for NXT, this weeks AEW did 5.000, so you say 1.5 is 1/5th of 5?
> 
> And looking at the first show doing close to 15.000 and 5 shows in you can just do 5.000. With your math they just did 1/5th of the first show.
> 
> Just stating facts again.


Full Sail have less than 500 seats


----------



## TKO Wrestling

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> Doing my math. 1.500 for NXT, this weeks AEW did 5.000, so you say 1.5 is 1/5th of 5?
> 
> And looking at the first show doing close to 15.000 and 5 shows in you can just do 5.000. With your math they just did 1/5th of the first show.
> 
> Just stating facts again.


Full Sail/nXt is like a mini Impact Zone. They draw between 3-400 fans. 1500 lol? That’s is a month combined of nXts.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rbl85 said:


> AEW Numbers per quarter :
> ...
> 
> Meltzer said that the people who stopped watching AEW didn't switch to NXT.
> *He also said that the video packages hurt AEW (less interesting than matches)*
> ...


How can that be?! All the experts here are screaming that the show needs _more_ promos and video packages to attract more viewers, because they’re obviously turned off by boring wrestling matches. They can’t possibly be wrong ... can they? :lol

Sorry, this place makes my head hurt. But thanks for posting this.


----------



## rbl85

Reggie Dunlop said:


> How can that be?! All the experts here are screaming that the show needs _more_ promos and video packages to attract more viewers, because they’re obviously turned off by boring wrestling matches. They can’t possibly be wrong ... can they? :lol
> 
> Sorry, this place makes my head hurt. But thanks for posting this.


Well the 2 segments who lost the most viewers (more than 200K) were matches.


----------



## fabi1982

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I stand corrected, it is 400, not 1.500. So I admit I was wrong here.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> I stand corrected, it is 400, not 1.500. So I admit I was wrong here.


Don't worry i thought the same thing before, i was actually "shoked" when in found that Full Sail was only 400 seats.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW should go 1 hour like nitro was to start.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Nope, no trolling here, just reporting information. 

Because the whole world should hinge on one asshole’s fucking tweet. 

Fuck this place.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

NXT Only said:


> I’ve avoided this place for that very reason. It’s all about what they hate or what they’re doing wrong. Nothing about the stories or characters.
> 
> Just “I need promos” “orange Cassidy and marko suck” etc....


The funny thing is that the two promo heaviest shows are also the two worst performing shows.


----------



## Jonhern

kingnoth1n said:


> Oh yeah the Holiday show, we can include that, luls! Losing viewers on average per week. 1.4 mil to 800k. Can you explain that?


good post on Reddit about how shows do after premiers and how they grow slowly over time. So the drop AEW has had is not unlike other shows. They just have to keep putting out a good product and people hopefully start watching, just look at how long it took WWE to gain viewers after Austin 316 and the attitude era began. It didn't happen overnight, AEW needs to but in the work week after week and they are off to a good start being a top 10 show on Wednesday. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCir..._ran_data_showing_that_we_absolutely_need_to/


----------



## deepelemblues

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



TAC41 said:


> Careful, OP. You’re not allowed to criticize AEW on these boards. All the white knights come in and throw a tantrum while insulting you, and then the mods close the thread for “being too hostile.”
> 
> It’s a well rehearsed system to prevent any form of actual facts being posted here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> *They deserve some shit for this, fairs fair.
> *
> But they're a new company, they're not going to do massive numbers right from day one.
> 
> And Pro Wrestling is undeniably dead. We've had about 15 years of the WWE shitting all over Pro Wrestling fans and doing all they cna to drive away their own fanbase. Pro Wrestling just isn't cool anymore.


No. They don't. Neither doe WWE. No company deserves shit if they don't sell out or have poor ticket sales. A discussion can be had about "I think they had poor sales because....", but that's not possible on this site. It's either "hur hur fuck WWE/AEW" or nothing. This idea you make fun of a company for not selling enough tickets is pathetic.



looper007 said:


> They sold out some places, and they didn't sell out one and the usual trolls are all out with their threads acting like it's a disaster. Silly thread started by Silly so called wrestling fans wanting a company to fail. End off.
> 
> Tell me OP, oh wait I put you on ignore. *Tell me when WWE had a crowd as hot as the one on Wednesday.* It's been a long time.


This is where you lost me. You like wrestling, OP likes wrestling. If a person wants to report low ticket sales then they can. It's not trolling. You can't dismiss facts and stay in your safe place by claiming "troll" at everything you don't like.


I'm actually pretty happy by some user's responses. Some people are actually discussing and giving reasons at the lower sales. It's nice to see. This helps narrow down which users are poor, pathetic, losers who should be ignored.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

I kind of Think they would have been better served just having the Tag Titles be a big budget rematch and had Private Party against LAX as a way to show what the latter in a match against non-jobbers ahead of their match with the Buck. Also having Mox against Cutler in a brutal squash would have been better than Spears.


----------



## virus21

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*


----------



## TheKentuckyKid

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Nope, no trolling here, just reporting information.
> 
> Because the whole world should hinge on one asshole’s fucking tweet.
> 
> Fuck this place.


Agreed. Op cracks me up saying he is just “reporting” dude is just posting someone else’s tweet.


----------



## Alright_Mate

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

A tarped off part of the arena :shocked: I guess AEW shows from now on should take place in bingo halls.

Despite a tarped off part of the arena the crowds have been hot as fuck so far, coming across on tv you'd easily think that the arena is of full capacity.

When was the last time we said that about a WWE event? All WWE crowds have been doing lately is sleeping.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I was there. The place was 2/3 full, and the crowd was fantastic.

And the best part? No obnoxious WHAT chants. AEW's crowd actually enjoys being there.

I'll take that over the Full Sail bingo hall or WWE's trash fanbase any day.

It's hard to get people to come out on a Wednesday. Just the way it is.


----------



## Dizzie

So much for pushing Jericho as the main guy because he's the most well known face and would supposedly bring in the viewers.

I dont think wrestling fans want to be watching a 50 year old jericho being the most pushed guy on a wrestling show. For me an exciting wrestling product is one where you see more new faces get main event spots, this is what drew me into lucha underground as it felt fresh.

They should really be pushing Pentagon jr as their main heel character, the guy has charisma and a cool factor about him that is above everyone on both brands.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Welp, time to shut up shop guys

It’s been a swell 6 weeks, but they could not sell out Charlotte NC

Parting is such sweet sorrow! See you all in the Finn Balor fan thread?


----------



## rbl85

Dizzie said:


> So much for pushing Jericho as the main guy because he's the most well known face and would supposedly bring in the viewers.
> 
> I dont think wrestling fans want to be watching a 50 year old jericho being the most pushed guy on a wrestling show. For me an exciting wrestling product is one where you see more new faces get main event spots, this is what drew me into lucha underground as it felt fresh.
> 
> They should really be pushing Pentagon jr as their main heel character, the guy has charisma and a cool factor about him that is above everyone on both brands.


Actually his segments gained viewers.


----------



## Jonhern

kingnoth1n said:


> Yeah completely delusional but whats the point with some of these people? lol. No one wants to explain the 200k drop from week 2/3 to now. lol.
> 
> Everything I pointed out earlier comparing the ghosts of pasts is 100 as far as im concerned; and they need to get the hook on all these tag teams, especially the failing dark order


It has been explained you just don't want to accept the explanation. You have to remember you can't look at the ratings in isolation, but relative to everything else. The shows that were in the top 10 dropped around 20% last week with the NBA dropping 50% because of the world series. The NBA dropped the most but came back this week but is still down from the week before the WS. Everything else bounced back just 6% as AEW did. 

American Horror Story .61→.46 (-25%)→.49 (+6%)
NBA Early Game .76→.38 (-50%)→.60 (+58%)
NBA Late Game .66→.36 (-45%)→.57 (+58%)
AEW .45→.33 (-26%)→.35 (+6%)
the Challange .41→.34 (-17%)→.36 (+6%)

NXT was not in the top ten but we know what caused their big bump since its easy to pinpoint. However, we really don't know why fewer people, in general, were watching last night than two weeks prior. But it was across the board lower than two weeks ago. 

NXT .21→.18 (-14%)→.30 (+66%)


----------



## Matthew Castillo

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I think they over estimated how much they could get out of smaller markets like West Virginia and North Carolina.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Matthew Castillo said:


> I think they over estimated how much they could get out of smaller markets like West Virginia and North Carolina.


More like, it's hard to find an arena that is the EXACT size for the EXACT amount of tickets you think you will theoretically sell.

Nobody that was there gave a damn. It was a huge party.


----------



## roadkill_

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

It didn't come across this way on TV. It looked like a crowd from the 1990's, i.e. a big WCW Nitro show, and sounded even better. Production seemed to have been pretty strict on camera angles.

Compare that with Dixie Carter's TNA in the 'Impact Zone', week in week out they insisted on showing off their 'cam skillz' with that shitty roof arm cam, and in the process exposed the paltry, pitiful attendance and just how small the 'Impact Zone' was.

Bischoff didn't do this, in the earlier, smaller days of WCW. His production had a knack of making a handful of hobos and tourists look 3x bigger than it was. 

So, at the very least, AEW is more competent than car-wreck TNA.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Well it's expected eventually the sell outs would stop. But some of you have to accept that when the company, blogs, and fans makes selling out arenas such a big deal it's going to become an even bigger deal when they don't sell out. You can't bump your just when they succeed, then scream foul when people point out their stumbles. They're still in no danger, but they're going to be prodded.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



All Elite Wanking said:


> No. They don't. Neither doe WWE. No company deserves shit if they don't sell out or have poor ticket sales. A discussion can be had about "I think they had poor sales because....", but that's not possible on this site. It's either "hur hur fuck WWE/AEW" or nothing. This idea you make fun of a company for not selling enough tickets is pathetic.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where you lost me. You like wrestling, OP likes wrestling. If a person wants to report low ticket sales then they can. It's not trolling. You can't dismiss facts and stay in your safe place by claiming "troll" at everything you don't like.
> 
> 
> I'm actually pretty happy by some user's responses. Some people are actually discussing and giving reasons at the lower sales. It's nice to see. This helps narrow down which users are poor, pathetic, losers who should be ignored.


They deserve it because WWE gets shit for it. Fairs, fair. Wrestling fans are usually massive hypocrites, but if WWE gets shit for tarping off arena's then its fair for AEW too cop some shit for the same thing.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> They deserve it because WWE gets shit for it. Fairs, fair. Wrestling fans are usually massive hypocrites, but if WWE gets shit for tarping off arena's then its fair for AEW too cop some shit for the same thing.


To be fair, there really isn't anything else to give AEW shit about, because the show and crowd were fantastic.

So I completely understand that there's going to be some grasping at straws for the trolls. It's hard sometimes.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Tilon said:


> To be fair, there really isn't anything else to give AEW shit about, because the show and crowd were fantastic.
> 
> So I completely understand that there's going to be some grasping at straws for the trolls. It's hard sometimes.


In context its not really grasping at straws. Its being being fair. AEW shouldn't be immune to same critiques WWE faces just because AEW is the smark favourite company. That's where most of the hypocrisy in Pro Wrestling fandom comes in when typical smark favourites get a free pass for shit that others dont.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> In context its not really grasping at straws. Its being being fair. AEW shouldn't be immune to same critiques WWE faces just because AEW is the smark favourite company. That's where most of the hypocrisy in Pro Wrestling fandom comes in when typical smark favourites get a free pass for shit that others dont.


A lot of folk can give it but can't take it. Shit talking is only fun when they're on the giving side.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Alright_Mate said:


> A tarped off part of the arena :shocked: I guess AEW shows from now on should take place in bingo halls.
> 
> Despite a tarped off part of the arena the crowds have been hot as fuck so far, coming across on tv you'd easily think that the arena is of full capacity.
> 
> When was the last time we said that about a WWE event? All WWE crowds have been doing lately is sleeping.


No, no, no, they haven’t just been sleeping. Sometimes they yell ‘What?!’ Come on now, be fair.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



RapShepard said:


> A lot of folk can give it but can't take it. Shit talking is only fun when they're on the giving side.


I'm perfectly happy to take it and give it back. Nobody ever expected every Wednesday show to sell out, and nobody cares because the crowd was hot all night.

Maybe if AEW ran every show out of a bingo hall like NXT, they could sell out every night.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Eva MaRIHyse said:


> They deserve it because WWE gets shit for it. Fairs, fair. Wrestling fans are usually massive hypocrites, but if WWE gets shit for tarping off arena's then its fair for AEW too cop some shit for the same thing.


Except WWE has been shitting the bed on live attendance for a whole fucking lot longer than AEW has even been a thing. But let’s not let that get in the way of a good brand bashing.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Tilon said:


> I'm perfectly happy to take it and give it back. Nobody ever expected every Wednesday show to sell out, and nobody cares because the crowd was hot all night.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe if AEW ran every show out of a bingo hall like NXT, they could sell out every night.


I know most didn't I've been in these threads. But folk were loud, proud, and mocking when they were selling out in the first day. You can't then go "oh you're grasping at straws you troll" and pull out all the excuses when folk do the same thing back.


----------



## deepelemblues

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



RapShepard said:


> I know most didn't I've been in these threads. But folk were loud, proud, and mocking when they were selling out in the first day. You can't then go "oh you're grasping at straws you troll" and pull out all the excuses when folk do the same thing back.


Can we go the thread title and OP are both clearly worded in a baiting fashion?


----------



## kingnoth1n

Facts don’t care about feelings.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



RapShepard said:


> I know most didn't I've been in these threads. But folk were loud, proud, and mocking when they were selling out in the first day. You can't then go "oh you're grasping at straws you troll" and pull out all the excuses when folk do the same thing back.


WHAT?


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



deepelemblues said:


> Can we go the thread title and OP are both clearly worded in a baiting fashion?


And? The Tarp threads were baiting when they were in the WWE sections. AEW is major and it's going to get everything from harsh criticism to out right trolling it just is what it is.



Tilon said:


> WHAT?


Nothing I said was hard to understand. You can't gloat about success, then call foul when people gloat about your slip ups. This is what's happening with AEW right now. Fans gloated about their success, but can't take it when others point out their failures.


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Except WWE has been shitting the bed on live attendance for a whole fucking lot longer than AEW has even been a thing. But let’s not let that get in the way of a good brand bashing.


Brand bashing?

Jesus Christ. I'm talking about how people aren't just being massive hypocrites like usual. Its only fair that AEW is criticised for the same things that other companies are criticised for, that's fair. Its not brand bashing.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



RapShepard said:


> Well it's expected eventually the sell outs would stop. But some of you have to accept that when the company, blogs, and fans makes selling out arenas such a big deal it's going to become an even bigger deal when they don't sell out. You can't bump your just when they succeed, then scream foul when people point out their stumbles. They're still in no danger, but they're going to be prodded.


They made a big deal out of it because it was an actual big deal. It is 2019 and a non WWE show sold out a large arena in a half an hour. WWE has dominated the game for 18 years. What they did shouldn't have happened but it did and they have every right to be proud of it. Of course there are WWE stans who only want WWE to be successful and not deal with competition threatening that and people who say they are wrestling fans but do nothing but shit all over everything about wrestling because they have been so jaded that they want to nit pick at *every single thing* so you are just as miserable as they are.


----------



## kingfrass44

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



kingnoth1n said:


> Facts don’t care about feelings.


feelings Most Sale out


----------



## DOTL

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> Interestingly AEW fans say WWE is dying after they drove fans away for the last 15 years. But it is fine if the fanbase which AEW was expecting (honestly why would you go for such a venue) is not interested and it is just a startup and so on, when they were selling out the first shows in hours? And if I remember correctly this was the Rhodes home show (they mentioned it couple times during the show).
> 
> So to sum this up, what WWE took 15 years just took AEW 6 weeks? This is the key point to see here, right?
> 
> Honestly this for me is the biggest issue with AEW, they are expecting too much. TNT may be fine with the numbers and whoever else, but AEW itself should change things soon. Going for smaller arenas is the first step. And I still see people making fun of lowered ticket sales for WWE when they do more than 4 times the shows and still have an average of 4.400 per event. AEW couldnt even keep the hype going for more than 5 weeks?!


People make fun of WWE ticket sales because those poor sales are the result of poor management. They don't have the age of the brand as an excuse and one can easily argue that the bad decisions of one man is responsible for wrestling's slow decline after the death of WCW. 

Talking about AEW along those lines would be silly because AEW is new and must build an audience. Failing to build an audience is much different than loses one you've already had.


----------



## kingnoth1n

RapShepard said:


> deepelemblues said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can we go the thread title and OP are both clearly worded in a baiting fashion?
> 
> 
> 
> And? The Tarp threads were baiting when they were in the WWE sections. AEW is major and it's going to get everything from harsh criticism to out right trolling it just is what it is.
Click to expand...

Just reporting info. Not my fault if the facts hurt people’s feelings. Anything ‘negative’ in someone’s eyes can be ‘baiting’ if a person wants to live their life painting that narrative.


----------



## Jonhern

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> Interestingly AEW fans say WWE is dying after they drove fans away for the last 15 years. But it is fine if the fanbase which AEW was expecting (honestly why would you go for such a venue) is not interested and it is just a startup and so on, when they were selling out the first shows in hours? And if I remember correctly this was the Rhodes home show (they mentioned it couple times during the show).
> 
> So to sum this up, what WWE took 15 years just took AEW 6 weeks? This is the key point to see here, right?
> 
> Honestly this for me is the biggest issue with AEW, they are expecting too much. TNT may be fine with the numbers and whoever else, but AEW itself should change things soon. Going for smaller arenas is the first step. And I still see people making fun of lowered ticket sales for WWE when they do more than 4 times the shows and still have an average of 4.400 per event. AEW couldnt even keep the hype going for more than 5 weeks?!


LOL, wwe is losing money on their house shows so I don't think its a brag to say they do so many more shows. Just because you rent out a space doesn't mean you have to sell it out to make a profit. Very few acts go and sell out every place they go to yet there are tons of tours out there. AEW is currently averaging around 7,400 in paid attendance for Dynamite, if people think that's bad IDK what they are expecting AEW to be, it's a brand new company. WWE has legit sell-outs but a few times a year, for instance, Summerslam, sometimes Wrestlemania but its a huge stadium so let's give it a pass, and the Royal Rumble when it's not in a stadium. Survivor Series isn't even sold out yet nor has NXT Takeovers been selling out. AEW an upstart company that did not exist last year has had 5 legit sellouts this year already. Anyone thinking they would keep that up weekly is just looking for something to shit on. The only time WWE had lots of sellouts was during the height of the attitude era. 

WWE with all that extra viewership is right now bringing in similar numbers to their RAW and SDL live tv tapings as AEW. If someone has the numbers they can share it would be interesting to see RAW and SDL, but as you stated last quarter, North American paid attendance for all shows, PPV, RAW, SDL, and house shows was 4,400 which was a drop from last year even though they ran 20 fewer house shows this year. So RAW and SDL attendance had greater weight in that number. That tells you AEW is doing just fine with a smaller, but very passionate fanbase.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> Brand bashing?
> 
> Jesus Christ. I'm talking about how people aren't just being massive hypocrites like usual. Its only fair that AEW is criticised for the same things that other companies are criticised for, that's fair. Its not brand bashing.


K. You've had your say.

We'll take the 5,000 excited fans that don't chant WHAT. We're satisfied with that.

Is it clear now? Or is 'fair' defined as making the same point over and over and over again?


----------



## Buhalovski

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Lets be real, most of us wrestling fans are dumbasses who always had some unbelievable unrealistic expectations when it comes to our product. Pro wrestling is dead, no matter how good AEW is doing it will remain the same. Your average normie doesnt give a fuck about wrestling, especially a new promotion with barely known guys.

Around 900k/1M raitings and small arenas is fine as long as they keep delivering good stuff. Just be grateful for having an alternative.


----------



## shandcraig

Whats the big deal. They sold probably 65 percent of the venue, to me anything they are doing now has been a huge success. This company is going to have lots of pocket shows not sold out or soem citties will be bad some be good 

I still dont get why the expectations are that this company should be selling out and selling the size they try to be. They got a long way go go to become a recognized name. I talk about the promotion to people all the time and no one knows who they are.

Its a problem for wwe because wwe has had a standard for years has bah a level of popularity for years. And the fact that they are in a decline is a problem. This company has a battle to gain viewers from the start like every other promotion. Wwe has had a battle to maintain viewers. Its different


----------



## patpat

Brandi and the dark order single handedly tanked the ratings. 
Repackaged dark order and brandi needs to fuck off tv period.
The positive is that Dave said their lost viewers didnt go to nxt, they have the fanbase. The show started at 970k. So that is the viewership they have, some shit on the show simply didnt fly with people and that's brandi cutler and dark order, the damage they did is astronomical


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



TheMaskedAvenger said:


> They made a big deal out of it because it was an actual big deal. It is 2019 and a non WWE show sold out a large arena in a half an hour. WWE has dominated the game for 18 years. What they did shouldn't have happened but it did and they have every right to be proud of it. Of course there are WWE stans who only want WWE to be successful and not deal with competition threatening that and people who say they are wrestling fans but do nothing but shit all over everything about wrestling because they have been so jaded that they want to nit pick at every single thing so you are just as miserable as they are.


It certainly was a big deal and monumental event, not denying that. The thing is though when you make things like numbers which will fluctuate such a talking point, you're ensuring they'll be a talking point when they're not so impressive. 

And the thing is the folk doing most of the harsh criticism aren't WWE fans either. The majority of the folk this section seem to dislike talk the exact same shit in the WWE section, but nobody cares their because shitting on WWE deserved or undeserved is seen as acceptable. A lot of the harsher critics of AEW and hate watchers have made it clear that a lot of their problems with AEW is it's too similar to WWE in match style and lack of story's they like. But folk miss that.


----------



## kingnoth1n

Tilon said:


> Eva MaRIHyse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brand bashing?
> 
> Jesus Christ. I'm talking about how people aren't just being massive hypocrites like usual. Its only fair that AEW is criticised for the same things that other companies are criticised for, that's fair. Its not brand bashing.
> 
> 
> 
> K. You've had your say.
> 
> We'll take the 5,000 excited fans that don't chant WHAT. We're satisfied with that.
> 
> Is it clear now? Or is 'fair' defined as making the same point over and over and over again?
Click to expand...

Delete what.exe
Run clap, clap, clap clap clap.exe
Run youdeserveit.exe
Enter

It’s apples and oranges the chants and doesn’t make a fan base any more or less passionate.


----------



## SZilla25

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

A 10 month old company not selling out an entire arena is less of a bad look than the 67 year old near monopoly company not selling out (multiple) arenas.


----------



## patpat

looper007 said:


> They sold out some places, and they didn't sell out one and the usual trolls are all out with their threads acting like it's a disaster. Silly thread started by Silly so called wrestling fans wanting a company to fail. End off.
> 
> Tell me OP, oh wait I put you on ignore. Tell me when WWE had a crowd as hot as the one on Wednesday. It's been a long time.


 you mean to tell me they were going to sellout every single arenas?! 
And lol at the wwe comparison, it's like comparing Starbucks to my 6 weeks old coffee shop. Some E drones are really butthurt that their little shiny company get criticised for drawing shit despite 20 years of monopoly:lol


----------



## Eva MaRIHyse

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Tilon said:


> K. You've had your say.
> 
> We'll take the 5,000 excited fans that don't chant WHAT. We're satisfied with that.
> 
> Is it clear now? Or is 'fair' defined as making the same point over and over and over again?


Its not clear, clearly. Because people such as yourself cant look past someone saying something remotely negative about AEW.

I'm not even taking a shot at AEW here. I even said in my original post that there's valid reasons to AEW needing tarp; its new and Pro Wrestling is dead.

So again, and bolded and underlined. *Its fair to treat them the same and level the same critiques at them instead of ignoring when the smark favourite has the same issue as others do.*


----------



## STEVALD

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



kingnoth1n said:


> Why the attacks I’m just reporting info?


Sure you were here for a civil discussion with a thread title like that. :kobe

Nick Jackson already spoke about how they were prepared for this in one of the interviews leading into the premiere. They always expected the sales to take a hit at some point after all the initial sellouts. And honestly, that's just the state of the business right now. Plus they're a new product.

The fact that the NC crowd was still the hottest they've been for a wrestling show in recent memory makes up for it though.


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Eva MaRIHyse said:


> So again, and bolded and underlined. *Its fair to treat them the same and level the same critiques at them instead of ignoring when the smark favourite has the same issue as others do.*


Again, bold and underlined.

*We heard you. You've said it 5 times. You can go back to your bingo hall and cuck storylines now.*


----------



## Britz94xD

In hindsight they probably needed like half a dozen more legit stars. If they had this roster + Punk, Bryan, Styles, Osprey, Okada then they'd be the best promotion in the world.

But now WWE's 5 year deals and the other promotions not cooperating is hurting everyone immensely.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The thought process and habits of the AEW fanbase is pretty clear by now.

They will watch everything Jon Moxley does on TV, they will watch most of the things Jericho does on TV, and they will check out Jon Moxley videos on YouTube. That's it. Beyond that, no one gives a shit about anything. Guys like Cody, Omega, Page, Pac, Darby Allin, etc., are drawing zero interest, and no one has got any time for them.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

No. That tweet doesn't not deserve attention and does not bring up a valid point. There is no 'fair is fair' argument because the scale both promotions are being graded on isn't fair to begin with.

WWE shows suck. The people that pay to attend don't even give a shit and mostly play on their phones or are silent during nearly the entire show, barring a few moments for Superstars or segments. Not the case for AEW, everyone paying to see the show _want's to be there_ and they are loud and active the whole time.


----------



## fabi1982

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Jonhern said:


> LOL, wwe is losing money on their house shows so I don't think its a brag to say they do so many more shows. Just because you rent out a space doesn't mean you have to sell it out to make a profit. Very few acts go and sell out every place they go to yet there are tons of tours out there. AEW is currently averaging around 7,400 in paid attendance for Dynamite, if people think that's bad IDK what they are expecting AEW to be, it's a brand new company. WWE has legit sell-outs but a few times a year, for instance, Summerslam, sometimes Wrestlemania but its a huge stadium so let's give it a pass, and the Royal Rumble when it's not in a stadium. Survivor Series isn't even sold out yet nor has NXT Takeovers been selling out. AEW an upstart company that did not exist last year has had 5 legit sellouts this year already. Anyone thinking they would keep that up weekly is just looking for something to shit on. The only time WWE had lots of sellouts was during the height of the attitude era.
> 
> WWE with all that extra viewership is right now bringing in similar numbers to their RAW and SDL live tv tapings as AEW. If someone has the numbers they can share it would be interesting to see RAW and SDL, but as you stated last quarter, North American paid attendance for all shows, PPV, RAW, SDL, and house shows was 4,400 which was a drop from last year even though they ran 20 fewer house shows this year. So RAW and SDL attendance had greater weight in that number. That tells you AEW is doing just fine with a smaller, but very passionate fanbase.


Can you please show me where it says "wwe is LOSING money" on house shows besides that Observer article? Do you know the production costs? Does the article anywhere calculate that we can clearly see that WWE is LOSING money, means making less than it costs? Just because Dave writes something doesnt mean it is true. It is going down for sure, but I dont want to discuss this until someone shows me a negative number. Maybe we just have to wait until the next quarter earnings call to see if this was another useless atempt of Melzer to get visitors to his website.

And the average 7.400 for AEW with the first two shows going far above 10k mens that the are not consistently keeping the fanbase. So the last live show got 5.000 fans in. If you say WWE is losing money on house shows where the costs are much lower than on TV shows, does that mean AEW is losing money on these shows as well?

So we can speculate, but this needs to be done in both directions.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Britz94xD said:


> In hindsight they probably needed like half a dozen more legit stars. If they had this roster + Punk, Bryan, Styles, Osprey, Okada then they'd be the best promotion in the world.
> 
> But now WWE's 5 year deals and the other promotions not cooperating is hurting everyone immensely.


Unfortunately, every other promotion needs to deal with the landscape WWE has set as well. They all basically have to fight for the scraps that WWE can’t sign. It makes it a little more difficult to grow and stand apart from the rest, but they’re all in about the same boat. Unless they break down some walls and decide to cooperate more with each other. 

Agreed that AEW would greatly benefit from a few more well-known names. But I don’t think Punk is one of them. They need people who will not only bring more eyes to the product, but will actually bring added value to the roster. I think the other names you mentioned (who aren’t Punk) could definitely be those people. 

With all the games Punk has played, its pretty clear that AEW is not his first choice, and he’s just running down the list of who’s going to give him the fattest paycheck. At this point, if I were the owner of a promotion, I don’t think I’d want him in my locker room.


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> Brandi and the dark order single handedly tanked the ratings.
> Repackaged dark order and brandi needs to fuck off tv period.
> The positive is that Dave said their lost viewers didnt go to nxt, they have the fanbase. The show started at 970k. So that is the viewership they have, some shit on the show simply didnt fly with people and that's brandi cutler and dark order, the damage they did is astronomical


Private Party too...you can't put all the blame on Dark Order.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

In the last quarter reports.

That's why they're starting to do less house shows.


----------



## BigCy

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Unfortunately, every other promotion needs to deal with the landscape WWE has set as well. They all basically have to fight for the scraps that WWE can’t sign. It makes it a little more difficult to grow and stand apart from the rest, but they’re all in about the same boat. Unless they break down some walls and decide to cooperate more with each other.
> 
> Agreed that AEW would greatly benefit from a few more well-known names. But I don’t think Punk is one of them. They need people who will not only bring more eyes to the product, but will actually bring added value to the roster. I think the other names you mentioned (who aren’t Punk) could definitely be those people.
> 
> With all the games Punk has played, its pretty clear that AEW is not his first choice, and he’s just running down the list of who’s going to give him the fattest paycheck. At this point, if I were the owner of a promotion, I don’t think I’d want him in my locker room.


Great points here Fuzzy. As far as Punk, he WAS a viable get at the beginning but not so much anymore, especially with the games he's playing. AEW still used his name to attract people though which may have been smart but also a little shady, for instance when Young Bucks said "No, CM Punk will not play The Librarian!" It got several people to think he was on board and then they tuned into see but when they realized he wasn't coming the fans were like "wtf?! they lied to us!" 

I'm not saying the lack of CM Punk is all that's dropping the ratings but I would say (total guess) that they lost about 200k total of the 1.4 mil that started when they realized Punk wasn't going to be a part of it. I saw so many comments here and elsewhere that people were tuning in to see what they do with CM Punk, etc.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> How can that be?! All the experts here are screaming that the show needs _more_ promos and video packages to attract more viewers, because they’re obviously turned off by boring wrestling matches. They can’t possibly be wrong ... can they? :lol
> 
> Sorry, this place makes my head hurt. But thanks for posting this.


The quote was a little out of place because during 2 video packages they went up, the one that dropped was Brandi's segment.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brandi and the dark order single handedly tanked the ratings.
> Repackaged dark order and brandi needs to fuck off tv period.
> The positive is that Dave said their lost viewers didnt go to nxt, they have the fanbase. The show started at 970k. So that is the viewership they have, some shit on the show simply didnt fly with people and that's brandi cutler and dark order, the damage they did is astronomical
> 
> 
> 
> Private Party too...you can't put all the blame on Dark Order.
Click to expand...

 it's because it's a pattern,most of their matches lose viewers no? And here is the thing private party losing viewers isnt bad because they are a work in progress and so far their gimmick works. Dark order is broken and cant get over with an aew crowd so when they lose viewers it's worse because it's a useless loss.
But one thing we can universally agree on is that brandi Rhodes needs to fuck off and all the time she eats needs to be used to build the other women.


----------



## Jonhern

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> Can you please show me where it says "wwe is LOSING money" on house shows besides that Observer article? Do you know the production costs? Does the article anywhere calculate that we can clearly see that WWE is LOSING money, means making less than it costs? Just because Dave writes something doesnt mean it is true. It is going down for sure, but I dont want to discuss this until someone shows me a negative number. Maybe we just have to wait until the next quarter earnings call to see if this was another useless atempt of Melzer to get visitors to his website.
> 
> And the average 7.400 for AEW with the first two shows going far above 10k mens that the are not consistently keeping the fanbase. So the last live show got 5.000 fans in. If you say WWE is losing money on house shows where the costs are much lower than on TV shows, does that mean AEW is losing money on these shows as well?
> 
> So we can speculate, but this needs to be done in both directions.


It's not speculation, they are a public company look at the earning reports. Operating income for 3rd quarter live events was a loss of $3.5 million. Q2 was positive because of Wrestlemania, quarter 1 had a $200k loss. Whether it's attributed to RAW or house shows I think its because house shows do much lower gates. but you are right, we don't have the exact numbers, maybe they are losing money on RAW and SDL and making money on house shows. Although RAW and SDL are not just the gates, its also the money they get from the networks because they are doing a live show from there. 

IDK what AEW is doing on these shows, but TNT is paying production costs so all the tv stuff is not at their expense. So if they are selling 5-9k per show they are making a profit on these shows from ticket sales, merch, likely a cut from concessions too. The gate for 5k at around $30-40 average ticket price is $150-200k, the 9k shows were $270k-360k. It's not like it's expensive to rent out most of these arena's, people are talking like they are renting out MSG. The average arena is $20k to rent out. Their most expensive rental was the one in DC and that also had the biggest crowd because it was the debut so that worked out well, the gate was around $500k if we use the same average ticket price, the rental even if dobule the average would still make it profitable. The ones they have been going to after are likely on the lower end of the average rental cost since they have not been for the most part the main arena in that city. For instance, in Boston, they went to a college arena not TD Garden. WWE also has a much bigger roster so that accounts for them having a lot more expenses than AEW right now too, and them not making money on live events. 

https://corporate.wwe.com/~/media/Files/W/WWE/press-releases/2019/q3-2019-trending-schedules.pdf


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Tarp is AEW is like Brandon Cutler

A jobber who makes a rare appearance.

Sometimes you’ll see him, BUT THE POWAHHHHHHH of CODY will DEFEAT that mangy flea!

Have your laughs SHEEP, like Randy Orton, tarp will re-sign with WWE for 5 YEARSSSSSSS

MMWHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA!


----------



## NascarStan

Putting the title on Riho in hindsight was clearly the right decision. By far she is the most over female on the roster and is doing good numbers on tv


----------



## rbl85

AverageJoe9 said:


> Putting the title on Riho in hindsight was clearly the right decision. By far she is the most over female on the roster and is doing good numbers on tv




What's funny is that she's more over with the young mens than the young womens


----------



## Jonhern

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Did some math and WWE average gate in North America is $273k, with an average ticket price of $62. I guessed at AEW avg ticket price so who knows what their gate really is, not enough info to know how the shows are doing but an educated guess would say they should be making a profit since they would have much lower expenses than WWE. WWE has a much bigger crew and larger more expensive roster, so would have a lot more expenses than AEW. With the current attendance levels, they could be making a profit, but we don't know and might never know since its not a public company.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I know that the tickets for AEW are less expensive


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

NXT can't even sell out the Tampa University Gymnasium for their event tonight.

https://nxttickets.ticketforce.com/ordertickets.asp?p=791&src=default

My local high school football team does better attendance.


----------



## Saintpat

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



JonLeduc said:


> I didin't feel any of this on TV. The crowd was loud and into it.
> 
> That's what matters to me.
> 
> Better to have 5000 Fully commited fans than 12 000 sleepy Lafayette fans.


_Corpus Christi has entered the chat._


----------



## Zappers

kingfrass44 said:


> You ignorant


Me Tarzan, you Jane.


----------



## Zbagint

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



looper007 said:


> They sold out some places, and they didn't sell out one and the usual trolls are all out with their threads acting like it's a disaster. Silly thread started by Silly so called wrestling fans wanting a company to fail. End off.
> 
> Tell me OP, oh wait I put you on ignore. Tell me when WWE had a crowd as hot as the one on Wednesday. It's been a long time.


You might as well just make a copy and paste response because this is the same stupid shit you say in every single topic. Personally, AEW is the only company I keep up with and I haven't watched WWE in about 10 years, but people like you are so god damn insufferable is almost makes me want to root for NXT. You say absolutely nothing of substance and never contribute anything to any conversation. Not everyone that dare discuss a negative aspect of AEW is a secret WWE operative.


----------



## midgetlover69

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

To be fair theres no way I would ever go to an aew live show just to sit down next to a bunch of fat smelly neckbeards for 2 hours


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



midgetlover69 said:


> To be fair theres no way I would ever go to an aew live show just to sit down next to a bunch of fat smelly neckbeards for 2 hours


Neckbeards need love too


----------



## midgetlover69

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Matthew Castillo said:


> I think they over estimated how much they could get out of smaller markets like West Virginia and North Carolina.


They need to stop going to these bumfuck middle of hicktown cities altogether


----------



## Darkest Lariat

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

WWE Clash if Champions 9/15/19 Attendance - 4.5K

AEW Dynamite on TNT 11/5/19 Attendance - 5K

Both in Charlotte NC

:quimby


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Wrestling is dead, not just WWE, wrestling. AEW gonna feel the wrath of Tarpamania running wild too.


----------



## Garty

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Please re-post this Twitter image again when you see no one in the arena. That's when we'll have something to talk about because right now, it's not an issue.

Now you can close the thread.


----------



## krtgolfing

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Most people went to the Elton John show in town!

This is true, but definitely not a good sign.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Is there a yawning emoj

How many tickets did AEW originally try to selll for this show


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Ofcourse Riho is over, she is amazing in the ring and super attractive. You guys want WWE lite when it comes to the women, you want AEW to be different, except the women. You want to bring Tessa in and make her our Becky Lynch instead of seeing that the fans love what we have in Riho.

She is awesome and super hot on top of it all,


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



optikk sucks said:


> Is there a yawning emoj
> 
> How many tickets did AEW originally try to selll for this show


More or less 8K


----------



## fabi1982

Jonhern said:


> fabi1982 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please show me where it says "wwe is LOSING money" on house shows besides that Observer article? Do you know the production costs? Does the article anywhere calculate that we can clearly see that WWE is LOSING money, means making less than it costs? Just because Dave writes something doesnt mean it is true. It is going down for sure, but I dont want to discuss this until someone shows me a negative number. Maybe we just have to wait until the next quarter earnings call to see if this was another useless atempt of Melzer to get visitors to his website.
> 
> And the average 7.400 for AEW with the first two shows going far above 10k mens that the are not consistently keeping the fanbase. So the last live show got 5.000 fans in. If you say WWE is losing money on house shows where the costs are much lower than on TV shows, does that mean AEW is losing money on these shows as well?
> 
> So we can speculate, but this needs to be done in both directions.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not speculation, they are a public company look at the earning reports. Operating income for 3rd quarter live events was a loss of $3.5 million. Q2 was positive because of Wrestlemania, quarter 1 had a $200k loss. Whether it's attributed to RAW or house shows I think its because house shows do much lower gates. but you are right, we don't have the exact numbers, maybe they are losing money on RAW and SDL and making money on house shows. Although RAW and SDL are not just the gates, its also the money they get from the networks because they are doing a live show from there.
> 
> IDK what AEW is doing on these shows, but TNT is paying production costs so all the tv stuff is not at their expense. So if they are selling 5-9k per show they are making a profit on these shows from ticket sales, merch, likely a cut from concessions too. The gate for 5k at around $30-40 average ticket price is $150-200k, the 9k shows were $270k-360k. It's not like it's expensive to rent out most of these arena's, people are talking like they are renting out MSG. The average arena is $20k to rent out. Their most expensive rental was the one in DC and that also had the biggest crowd because it was the debut so that worked out well, the gate was around $500k if we use the same average ticket price, the rental even if dobule the average would still make it profitable. The ones they have been going to after are likely on the lower end of the average rental cost since they have not been for the most part the main arena in that city. For instance, in Boston, they went to a college arena not TD Garden. WWE also has a much bigger roster so that accounts for them having a lot more expenses than AEW right now too, and them not making money on live events.
> 
> https://corporate.wwe.com/~/media/Files/W/WWE/press-releases/2019/q3-2019-trending-schedules.pdf
Click to expand...

So with the Saudi show in Q4 they should be very positive in yearly numbers 2019 as this is concidered a house show?! Anyways thanks for the numbers, I was unable to find them and I stand corrected again today ?


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



fabi1982 said:


> So with the Saudi show in Q4 they should be very positive in yearly numbers 2019 as this is concidered a house show?! Anyways thanks for the numbers, I was unable to find them and I stand corrected again today ?


The Saudi Show is a PPV.


----------



## Dummy_Yeah!

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I don't see it as a big deal unless the crowds become smaller and smaller but if they stay steady and crowds react well to what's happening during the show that's all that matters.


----------



## rbl85

The problem with the women division is that AEW does not try to make us interested about their women.

They need to do videos package about Riho and the other women that they're pushing.


----------



## Garty

Every time I read, "Jericho is old, fat and out of shape" I would say I agree with that statement in part. However, if he was back in WWE, you wouldn't hear a peep about it here on these boards. Could it be because he's not your "Y2J" character, created over 20 years ago?

Re-imagined, re-boot, whatever you want to call it. Jericho is still amazing at what he does, both in-ring and on the mic. He has been a huge asset to AEW's business thus far.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

BigCy said:


> The quote was a little out of place because during 2 video packages they went up, the one that dropped was Brandi's segment.


That’s what I get for listening to Meltzer. Screwed again! :lol



Garty said:


> Every time I read, "Jericho is old, fat and out of shape" I would say I agree with that statement in part. However, if he was back in WWE, you wouldn't hear a peep about it here on these boards. Could it be because he's not your "Y2J" character, created over 20 years ago?
> 
> Re-imagined, re-boot, whatever you want to call it. Jericho is still amazing at what he does, both in-ring and on the mic. He has been a huge asset to AEW's business thus far.


His segment in this week’s show alone should have quieted the criticisms. 

Face it, there’s a portion of the population in here that’s always going to find something to bitch about. And no, it’s not criticism, not when it’s the same few who have nothing positive to contribute, it’s bitching for the sake of bitching. Or trolling. Take your pick.


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Shaun_27 said:


> The tweet has a point, we need to be consistent when discussing the shows otherwise there is no point.


I disagree. WWE and AEW should not be held to the same standard. WWE is a decades old corporation with a vast history of being the foremost promoter in the industry. They have global divisions, a massive roster and a huge production, merchandising and promotion apparatus along with their own streaming platform. When they fail, it's in spite of all that and worth laughing at. It's not to be expected 

AEW is a start up company with some seed money trying to get off the ground. When they fail, it's to be expected this early that they'll have hiccups and readjustments 

Instead, people need to temper their expectations for AEW. I've said before they should try smaller venues. I've laughed at WWE for treating them like serious competition. 

But right now, they shouldn't be discussed the same way. They have different goals and different measures of success


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> The problem with the women division is that AEW does not try to make us interested about their women.
> 
> They need to do videos package about Riho and the other women that they're pushing.


 exactly they have an emotional rivalry with riho and emi, emi trained riho since she was like 9. They have the pictures , old videos of emi training riho, something to make an amazing story. What do they do?!!!!!! 
Fucking brandi Rhodes voodoo shit! I hate it with all my freaking strength. That story could have pushed riho into ultimate stardom but instead they are pushing cody,'s untalented cringey wife who cant wrestle. Brandi got 2 video packages back to back in two shows, meanwhile shannah hayter riho Shida sakura got absolutely nothing the last weeks.
It's like something is holding the division back and I will say it, brandi rhodes trying to get herself over is hurting this division..


----------



## Joe Gill

AEWMoxley said:


> The thought process and habits of the AEW fanbase is pretty clear by now.
> 
> They will watch everything Jon Moxley does on TV, they will watch most of the things Jericho does on TV, and they will check out Jon Moxley videos on YouTube. That's it. Beyond that, no one gives a shit about anything. Guys like Cody, Omega, Page, Pac, Darby Allin, etc., are drawing zero interest, and no one has got any time for them.


its an absolute joke that in the last show before the ppv moxley gets 2 minutes of airtime and some random japanese lady with a moustache gets 10+ minutes.

Nice Guy Tony needs to stop worrying about giving everyone equal opportunity and focus more on the big stars. 

MJF is the only young wrestler on the roster that has potential to be a star.... thats it. Yet he rarely wrestles or has any segments. It makes no sense. Is he injured?


----------



## patpat

Thank God some of you arent booking wrestling shows. Because some idiots who try to play mister smarts here wanted cody Rhodes vs Jericho to happen on tv and Jericho vs y2j to be hot shot on full gear, no long term thinking no thought process. 


Also breaking news the two guys who have been portrayed as top wwe guys for years on a major network on raw and smackdown are the two biggest tv star of the roster made of people who were never on US tv before.
Everytime I come here I see more and more stupid shit.
:lol


----------



## Joe Gill

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> What the fuck are you talking about?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How the fuck is 40,000 a massive sample size? It's less than 0.05% of the total number of homes with TNT.



ok this might be the stupidest thing ever said on this forum.
40,000 is a small sample size????
LOOOOOOL. Its literally one of the biggest sample sizes out there for anything. You clearly have no idea how statistics work.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

I'm going to be honest with you guys. I didn't properly watched AEW Dynamite last week and this week I only watched the Jericho promo.

I was fully invested up until the past couple of weeks. The show is simply not compelling enough for me right now. I dont know if this is just me, a wrestling issue or an AEW issue? But the fact that I was initially invested and now it's "meh" tells me that I'm not enjoying the product generally. 

I've been choosing to binge on netflix shows when i've got free time, even the crappy shows like this reality show about a county jail.

So this consistent drop has been exactly reflective of how i'm feeling about it right now. I still want AEW to succeed but right now, the product is not clicking for me. An hour recap on Netflix and i'd probably choose to watch that.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Guys, getting 5,000 fans in a 8,000 capacity arena to pay for a ticket and buy their merch is much better for their bottom line and their brand than selling out a smaller 1,000 capacity building. AEW is simply not going to be suddenly running smaller arenas for their TV show unless they start taking a much larger hit in regular attendance. 

I wish it were better and people shouldn't make excuses for AEW while slagging WWE for the same thing, but given that this is the first time we've had a second touring national wrestling promotions in 18 years, AEW getting 5,000 attendance in Charlotte, NC 6 weeks into their new show is _fine_.


----------



## A-C-P

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Darkest Lariat said:


> WWE Clash if Champions 9/15/19 Attendance - 4.5K
> 
> AEW Dynamite on TNT 11/5/19 Attendance - 5K
> 
> Both in Charlotte NC
> 
> :quimby


SHHHHHH, the trolls won't like this


----------



## llj

Garty said:


> Every time I read, "Jericho is old, fat and out of shape" I would say I agree with that statement in part. However, if he was back in WWE, you wouldn't hear a peep about it here on these boards. Could it be because he's not your "Y2J" character, created over 20 years ago?
> 
> Re-imagined, re-boot, whatever you want to call it. Jericho is still amazing at what he does, both in-ring and on the mic. He has been a huge asset to AEW's business thus far.


Huh? Jericho was called old and fat in here during his last years in the WWE.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Half the posters in this forum every Thursday:


----------



## Britz94xD

WWE had conditioned people that wrestling shows week to week are boring AF and only the "special" shows are important like when Rock showed up on Fox, Raw anniversary shows and AEW's debut. etc.

This will be a big week for AEW and then it'll go back down to 800K. It's fine as long as people buy the PPV


----------



## domotime2

fabi1982 said:


> So you skip the advertisement, so you are not important for the channel. What does your dvr viewing help them make money? Thats why thy dont care about +3 and thats why the numbers are hard to find, because nobody cares.


but they have to deal with that for every single show. everyone DVR's everything now. Outside of live sports and news, as long as wrestling programs are in the top 5, it's a success. To me that's all that matters.


----------



## domotime2

Britz94xD said:


> WWE had conditioned people that wrestling shows week to week are boring AF and only the "special" shows are important like when Rock showed up on Fox, Raw anniversary shows and AEW's debut. etc.
> 
> This will be a big week for AEW and then it'll go back down to 800K. It's fine as long as people buy the PPV


now THAT'S something i'm really concerned with. The wrestling fan hasn't had to pay $50 for one ppv in a long time. I'm trying to be the biggest AEW fan there is but evenI don't think I'll be able to shell out the money for this. I think partnering with a streaming APP and having the ppv's be exclusive there...whether it's youtube, hulu, cbs all access (lol)... is the way to go. Or SOMETHING like that. 

I have a bad feeling about the ppv buyrate


----------



## rbl85

Ticketmaster is screwing AEW.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I had posts when AEW was announced and DoN just happened, that I was super skeptical how they would sell tickets to buildings on a weekly basis. Selling out DoN, All Out etc. is one thing given that they are holiday weekend, major shows that people will travel to, but it was going to be a lot different selling tickets when you're only drawing from the local crowd.

The fact they can consistently do 4500-5000 tickets for a weekly Wednesday show is phenomenal. To give you a comparison point, TNA, for Bound for Glory 2011, their biggest show of the year with Angle, Hogan, Sting, Flair, RVD, AJ Styles etc. etc. on the show, drew 3,500 people in the Licarious center in Philadelphia. Same arena AEW sold out for week 2(mind you some of it was scalpers, but nonetheless, an impressive feat).

WWE Ran hot show after hot show in 1997, the rise of Austin, The Rock becoming The Rock, the debut of Kane, Vince becoming the evil owner, ALL of that happened in 1997, but ratings and ticket sales ultimately rose later in 1998. Give it time, everyone knew the sell outs were eventually going to stop, it was foolish to think it would be consistent.

The comparisons with WWE is because WWE has had STRONGER consistent ticket sales, they had stronger consistent TV ratings, we have a small sample size of AEW metrics to actually analyze.


----------



## Stylebender

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Oh so a brand new company does not sell out an entire arena for the first time. What a big deal. Meanwhile a 50 year old company that basically owns all of wrestlings history cant even sell out there flagship shows.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Darkest Lariat said:


> WWE Clash if Champions 9/15/19 Attendance - 4.5K
> 
> AEW Dynamite on TNT 11/5/19 Attendance - 5K
> 
> Both in Charlotte NC
> 
> :quimby


Clash of Champions did 8,000.

Nonetheless, it's a WWE PPV vs. the secondary promotions weekly television, that disparity should be bigger.


----------



## fabi1982

domotime2 said:


> fabi1982 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you skip the advertisement, so you are not important for the channel. What does your dvr viewing help them make money? Thats why thy dont care about +3 and thats why the numbers are hard to find, because nobody cares.
> 
> 
> 
> but they have to deal with that for every single show. everyone DVR's everything now. Outside of live sports and news, as long as wrestling programs are in the top 5, it's a success. To me that's all that matters.
Click to expand...

But this will be a big issue as others have said. Only thing matters is live audience. Of course you can see success with +3 and dvr, but this doesnt pay the bills sadly. I understand your point and am on your side. Issue is with more people not watching live TNT wont have access to the good paying advertisers and they pay AEWs money as they dont do house shows or have a subscription network (I dont think they get a big share off of fite).


----------



## kingnoth1n

11 pages deep and many of you have it in your head I’m a “WWE Guy”

Laughable lol.

Question, did some of you guys conceptualize this certain deflection or has the smart mark culture wired you this way through forums and reddit?


Are you sure you are even thinking for yourself?

Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).

I’m just relaying info.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

kingnoth1n said:


> I'm just reporting the info.


no you’re intentionally trying to get a rise out of people. Shame on you’!


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I assume nxt wins in total viewers next week as people tune into to see what's up with Balor and the Faux Club. We shall see if there is an actual "ppv bump" for AEW. I hope there is.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



kingnoth1n said:


> Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).


I think NWA Powerrr is fucking atrocious, literally god awful, abysmal programming. However, I don't go to the Powerrr section, where ever it is try to obviously start flame war type shit by saying "This business model isn't sustainable, they aren't making any money, and they are going to go out of business in a year" and "The latest episode of Powerr has 30% of the views as the first episode, it's going out of business!!!", which honestly, isn't far from the truth for that trash.

However, I don't go into the other sections just to start flame, that shit is lazy. It is what it is, it's going to be done to any company(that has a decent amount of clout, no one is going to do that for NWA Powerrr because no one cares enough), I just don't understand why you are going into sections to never say anything positive about a promotion. And for a lot of the AEW detractors, I legit never see them post anything positive, which begs the question, why are you watching?

Even when I post in the WWE section, even tho I'm not in love with the product, I try to offer decent discussion points without bashing the product left and right.

I get there are some AEW marks that are insufferable, but honestly, the majority of us have been level headed, and have called out the garbage like some of the matches going too long, not enough promos etc.


----------



## NascarStan

In 2019 50 bucks for a wrestling ppv is steep but people still shell out premier price for UFC and championship boxing so as long as AEW is putting on quality shows they should easily get 100k buys for a show.

Hell AEW doing traditional PPV and actually having to sell the show during tv will help keep the quality up since there is pressure to get in a buyrate. Look at the decline of WWE tv since the WWE Network was introduced, they have no pressure to actually sell a show so they produce garbage....


----------



## kingnoth1n

The Inbred Goatman said:


> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).
> 
> 
> 
> I think NWA Powerrr is fucking atrocious, literally god awful, abysmal programming. However, I don't go to the Powerrr section, where ever it is try to obviously start flame war type shit by saying "This business model isn't sustainable, they aren't making any money, and they are going to go out of business in a year", which honestly, isn't far from the truth for that trash.
> 
> However, I don't go into the other sections just to start flame, that shit is lazy. It is what it is, it's going to be done to any company(that has a decent amount of clout, no one is going to do that for NWA Powerrr because no one cares enough), I just don't understand why you are going into sections to never say anything positive about a promotion. And for a lot of the AEW detractors, I legit never see them post anything positive, which begs the question, why are you watching?
> 
> Even when I post in the WWE section, even tho I'm not in love with the product, I try to offer decent discussion points without bashing the product left and right.
Click to expand...


Your opinion about Powerrr. Ok.

I never said "This business model isn't sustainable, they aren't making any money, and they are going to go out of business in a year" fake news.


And nothing positive? Check the Meltzer match beyond thread. 2nd post. Tell this whole forum what you see please. Thx.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

kingnoth1n said:


> 11 pages deep and many of you have it in your head I’m a “WWE Guy”
> 
> Laughable lol.
> 
> Question, did some of you guys conceptualize this certain deflection or has the smart mark culture wired you this way through forums and reddit?
> 
> 
> Are you sure you are even thinking for yourself?
> 
> Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).
> 
> I’m just relaying info.


Annnnnd every one of your own replies in here have pretty much proved that you’re ‘reporting the info’ to see what kind of reaction it gets. Which curiously is the very definition of trolling.


----------



## Jonhern

patpat said:


> Thank God some of you arent booking wrestling shows. Because some idiots who try to play mister smarts here wanted cody Rhodes vs Jericho to happen on tv and *Jericho vs y2j *to be hot shot on full gear, no long term thinking no thought process.
> 
> 
> Also breaking news the two guys who have been portrayed as top wwe guys for years on a major network on raw and smackdown are the two biggest tv star of the roster made of people who were never on US tv before.
> Everytime I come here I see more and more stupid shit.
> :lol


Jericho vs y2j? I would pay to see that if possible lol


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Wrestling is just a dying bread - Once we all come to terms with that reality and accept the not so good ratings/attendance that both brands bring to the table you'll start enjoying it more.


----------



## Jonhern

Joe Gill said:


> ok this might be the stupidest thing ever said on this forum.
> 40,000 is a small sample size????
> LOOOOOOL. Its literally one of the biggest sample sizes out there for anything. You clearly have no idea how statistics work.


And its households too, not people, the average us household is 2.6 people, which means they likely have around 100k individuals with meters.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



kingnoth1n said:


> Your opinion about Powerrr. Ok.
> 
> I never said "This business model isn't sustainable, they aren't making any money, and they are going to go out of business in a year" fake news.


I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying those flame baiting statements can be made about NWA Powerrr, but I don't go out of my way to do that because that's lame as hell. That's what this post is, don't even try to act like that isn't the case.

Congrats, you made one positive post about AEW, but generally when I see your Nick Aldis avatar, it's attached with something relatively negative. And you don't even post here much, but when you do open a thread, it's about ticket sales? Ok buddy.


----------



## kingnoth1n

Reggie Dunlop said:


> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> 11 pages deep and many of you have it in your head I’m a “WWE Guy”
> 
> Laughable lol.
> 
> Question, did some of you guys conceptualize this certain deflection or has the smart mark culture wired you this way through forums and reddit?
> 
> 
> Are you sure you are even thinking for yourself?
> 
> Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).
> 
> I’m just relaying info.
> 
> 
> 
> Annnnnd every one of your own replies in here have pretty much proved that you’re ‘reporting the info’ to see what kind of reaction it gets. Which curiously is the very definition of trolling.
Click to expand...

I don’t understand the attacks towards me. I didn’t take the picture did I?


----------



## Death Rider

kingnoth1n said:


> Reggie Dunlop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> 11 pages deep and many of you have it in your head I’m a “WWE Guy”
> 
> Laughable lol.
> 
> Question, did some of you guys conceptualize this certain deflection or has the smart mark culture wired you this way through forums and reddit?
> 
> 
> Are you sure you are even thinking for yourself?
> 
> Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).
> 
> I’m just relaying info.
> 
> 
> 
> Annnnnd every one of your own replies in here have pretty much proved that you’re ‘reporting the info’ to see what kind of reaction it gets. Which curiously is the very definition of trolling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t understand the attacks towards me. I didn’t take the picture did I?
Click to expand...

You literally titled this "aew-tarpmite". King I like you but c'mon


----------



## kingnoth1n

Death Rider said:


> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reggie Dunlop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> 11 pages deep and many of you have it in your head I’m a “WWE Guy”
> 
> Laughable lol.
> 
> Question, did some of you guys conceptualize this certain deflection or has the smart mark culture wired you this way through forums and reddit?
> 
> 
> Are you sure you are even thinking for yourself?
> 
> Anytime someone says Powerrr is studio, taped....whatever. I don’t care, I still enjoy it, and can debate, without calling ppl trolls (lazy trope).
> 
> I’m just relaying info.
> 
> 
> 
> Annnnnd every one of your own replies in here have pretty much proved that you’re ‘reporting the info’ to see what kind of reaction it gets. Which curiously is the very definition of trolling.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don’t understand the attacks towards me. I didn’t take the picture did I?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You literally titled this "aew-tarpmite". King I like you but c'mon
Click to expand...

I think you’re alright too friend, and I like to have catchy titles in my posts.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

kingnoth1n said:


> I don’t understand the attacks towards me. I didn’t take the picture did I?


Of course you don’t. You’re just a kind, misunderstood soul. How dare we assume otherwise. 

So you’re trying to tell us you’re sharing this information purely to enlighten us unenlightened, out of the kindness of you’re heart? Surely even you can see how we’re having a hard time buying that. 

Keep baiting.


----------



## Jonhern

domotime2 said:


> but they have to deal with that for every single show. everyone DVR's everything now. Outside of live sports and news, as long as wrestling programs are in the top 5, it's a success. To me that's all that matters.


Wrestling DVR numbers, at least WWE numbers, tend to be more like Sports than entertainment shows. Which is a big reason why WWE got such big new rights deals. Sports usually see a 0% increase, wwe sometimes has 10% increase. While other shows have 60% and as much as 400% increases.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> I'm going to be honest with you guys. I didn't properly watched AEW Dynamite last week and this week I only watched the Jericho promo.
> 
> I was fully invested up until the past couple of weeks. The show is simply not compelling enough for me right now. I dont know if this is just me, a wrestling issue or an AEW issue? But the fact that I was initially invested and now it's "meh" tells me that I'm not enjoying the product generally.
> 
> I've been choosing to binge on netflix shows when i've got free time, even the crappy shows like this reality show about a county jail.
> 
> So this consistent drop has been exactly reflective of how i'm feeling about it right now. I still want AEW to succeed but right now, the product is not clicking for me. An hour recap on Netflix and i'd probably choose to watch that.


Absolutely nothing wrong with that

Was the same with NJPW for me

Was really onboard - and the last few months it just faded away

Never force watch - watch what you want, when you want

At some point, something might catch you eye again

Ps> do yourself a fav, when overloaded from wrestling, take a break from these boards. They don’t help. I always take a break when I ‘fall-out-of-love’ — only to return 6 months or a year later


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

The mighty tarp will be back tomorrow.


----------



## EmbassyForever

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

sometimes you guys are easy targets. stop feeding the trolls.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

AEW gets a pass for this because they're a brand new company. WWE gets shit for it because they're the big leagues and have been around for several decades. Pretty clear to see why one gets more flack than the other for it


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



kingnoth1n said:


> I don’t understand the attacks towards me


Just shrug your shoulders and move on man. I got called a troll because I celebrated that AEW added more promos to the show. No matter how mild your criticisms are, no matter how friendly you try to be, these people will react as viciously and personally as if you pushed their child off a cliff.

Just do your thing. I don't even agree with the premise of this thread but the people who are in here tone policing need to realize that a certain segment of the AEW fanbase is UNREASONABLY aggressive and derogatory and are the main source of the toxicity that has resulted in aggressive critics as well. The whining and bitching about "trolls" needs to go


----------



## Jonhern

AverageJoe9 said:


> In 2019 50 bucks for a wrestling ppv is steep but people still shell out premier price for UFC and championship boxing so as long as AEW is putting on quality shows they should easily get 100k buys for a show.
> 
> Hell AEW doing traditional PPV and actually having to sell the show during tv will help keep the quality up since there is pressure to get in a buyrate. Look at the decline of WWE tv since the WWE Network was introduced, they have no pressure to actually sell a show so they produce garbage....


They were doing around 100k without tv, now with tv I think it might go up. While the demo rating is all that matters for tv, for ppv its not just them but all viewers, whether on cable or not. A lot of people watch by other means, I watch on the TNT app or sling, which does not count if a Nielson family watches that way. I was using the number of 10:1 conversion before because that was what WWE was doing before they launched the network, but with the multiple ways to watch now it is only a part of the story. It actually worked out well for my prediction of AEW doing around a million to start by using PPV buys as a gage for viewership, so we will see if it holds true this time around. The six-week average is at 1 million viewers, which would translate to 100k buys. if they convert non-cable viewers at the same rate maybe it does more than DON. 

This is also the first PPV with Moxley on the card, I think many of us took his absence from All Out as a reason for the lower numbers than DON, will be telling how much of a draw he is with this one.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

optikk sucks said:


> I'm going to be honest with you guys. I didn't properly watched AEW Dynamite last week and this week I only watched the Jericho promo.
> 
> I was fully invested up until the past couple of weeks. The show is simply not compelling enough for me right now. I dont know if this is just me, a wrestling issue or an AEW issue? But the fact that I was initially invested and now it's "meh" tells me that I'm not enjoying the product generally.
> 
> I've been choosing to binge on netflix shows when i've got free time, even the crappy shows like this reality show about a county jail.
> 
> So this consistent drop has been exactly reflective of how i'm feeling about it right now. I still want AEW to succeed but right now, the product is not clicking for me. An hour recap on Netflix and i'd probably choose to watch that.


Eh, you gave it a shot. So it’s not for you right now. Maybe something will change down the road, maybe not. So you’re one of a few hundred thousand other viewers who tried it and drifted out since week 1. That’s the way it goes. Lots of other options to check out, or maybe you just need a break from wrestling altogether. 

Like Cattle said, this place won’t do anything to improve your outlook. But stay in touch with the dirt rags in case something cool does pop, and maybe you find your way back. 

‘Til then, see you around the funny pages.


----------



## Whysoserious?

The Wood said:


> I like Cody fine, but I do wonder how much of this is true in an “R-Truth is one of the most entertaining things on Raw” way. Do people realize this might be a problem?
> 
> I often get this feeling that Cody is playing main eventer. Do general audiences perceive him as a main eventer, or as a WWE mid-carder playing the role?


I personally view him as a mid-carder trying to play tough guy


----------



## DammitChrist

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I don't even expect AEW to sell out arenas EVERY time considering how it's still a new company that's not even a year old yet, and how it's barely a month old airing on TV.

However, the AEW crowds are generally hyped up and are actually excited to be on Dynamite since the product is exciting atm. As long as AEW continues to deliver good shows and an entertaining product on a consistent basis weekly, then I have no doubt that they'll eventually increase their crowd attendance later down the line.



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Annnnnd every one of your own replies in here have* pretty much proved that you’re ‘reporting the info’ to see what kind of reaction it gets. Which curiously is the very definition of trolling.*


Honestly, this isn't even surprising to me at all considering how the OP is known for associating himself with 2 other trolls who are guilty of doing just that on the forum. I actually expect this shit from him :lol


----------



## The Wood

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Half the posters in this forum every Thursday:


Yep, especially when they have to face the reality that the product is cooling.



Britz94xD said:


> WWE had conditioned people that wrestling shows week to week are boring AF and only the "special" shows are important like when Rock showed up on Fox, Raw anniversary shows and AEW's debut. etc.
> 
> This will be a big week for AEW and then it'll go back down to 800K. It's fine as long as people buy the PPV


So it’s WWE’s fault AEW has cooled off tremendously? 



rbl85 said:


> Ticketmaster is screwing AEW.


No wait, it’s Ticketmaster. 

There’s so many hasty generalizations in this thread. Anyone who says “I like AEW but...” is a troll. Everyone who lobbies a criticism at Jericho in AEW obviously loved him in WWE. Neither of those things are true. 

Generally speaking, it would be generous to predict that a PPV converts 5% of its domestic audience. It might be a bit higher because it’s the first people will see. But given that the number held when it came to predicting a TV audience, and they have not been able to make additional fans, it’s probably safe to take their TV number and divide it by 20. That puts them at about 41 or 42k buys. Probably about 55 with international, but that might be higher because it is cheaper and they’ve been doing better overseas. But Turner no doubt has less stake in that, but the domestic flop will no doubt be ignored.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Just shrug your shoulders and move on man. I got called a troll because I celebrated that AEW added more promos to the show. No matter how mild your criticisms are, no matter how friendly you try to be, these people will react as viciously and personally as if you pushed their child off a cliff.
> 
> Just do your thing. I don't even agree with the premise of this thread but the people who are in here tone policing need to realize that a certain segment of the AEW fanbase is UNREASONABLY aggressive and derogatory and are the main source of the toxicity that has resulted in aggressive critics as well. The whining and bitching about "trolls" needs to go


Yup, 100%.

Well said, Champ!


----------



## The Wood

Death Rider said:


> Shaun_27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The tweet has a point, we need to be consistent when discussing the shows otherwise there is no point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eva MaRIHyse said:
> 
> 
> 
> They deserve some shit for this, fairs fair.
> 
> But they're a new company, they're not going to do massive numbers right from day one.
> 
> And Pro Wrestling is undeniably dead. We've had about 15 years of the WWE shitting all over Pro Wrestling fans and doing all they cna to drive away their own fanbase. Pro Wrestling just isn't cool anymore.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Discussing it is fair and so is criticising it (and it is not good this is not a defence at all) however one is a brand new company and the other is a global brand around for many years. It is not really the same tbh unless you expect aew to have wwe's fanbase from the start. Comparing the two does not make sense to me even if both are bad for the company.
Click to expand...

One is a global brand that runs several arenas a week and another is a fresh company that runs once and has supposed conned people into thinking they are a revolution. 

The whole “they’re new” thing is so inappropriate a defense for them simply not being cool. It turns out that the fans that were willing to fill up arenas that people were bragging about may have been a travelling audience, like many suspected, and that you can’t milk the same couple of thousand people forever.

“It’s so disappointing that the new Spider-Man film is only getting $500k at the box office in its 2,582nd week in cinemas. But how can anyone expect John Wick to do as well as cinemas as something that has been around so long? You’ve got to give it time to get its box office up there.”


----------



## kingnoth1n

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t understand the attacks towards me
> 
> 
> 
> Just shrug your shoulders and move on man. I got called a troll because I celebrated that AEW added more promos to the show. No matter how mild your criticisms are, no matter how friendly you try to be, these people will react as viciously and personally as if you pushed their child off a cliff.
> 
> Just do your thing. I don't even agree with the premise of this thread but the people who are in here tone policing need to realize that a certain segment of the AEW fanbase is UNREASONABLY aggressive and derogatory and are the main source of the toxicity that has resulted in aggressive critics as well. The whining and bitching about "trolls" needs to go
Click to expand...


Doesn’t make sense. I have people trying to get Me canceled for posting a tweet accusing me of trolling, etc. what a reach; even when I prove them wrong and I like things AEW is doing like WarGames coming up hopefully.


It’s an overprotective defensive mechanism I think. I don’t understand how people get wired this way. it’s deranged. and AEW fans are the only fans that act this way. Not wwe, powerrr, mlw, impact or any other promotion I’ve ever encountered for that matter. Why do you think that is?


----------



## The Wood

kingnoth1n said:


> CHAMPIONSHIPS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t understand the attacks towards me
> 
> 
> 
> Just shrug your shoulders and move on man. I got called a troll because I celebrated that AEW added more promos to the show. No matter how mild your criticisms are, no matter how friendly you try to be, these people will react as viciously and personally as if you pushed their child off a cliff.
> 
> Just do your thing. I don't even agree with the premise of this thread but the people who are in here tone policing need to realize that a certain segment of the AEW fanbase is UNREASONABLY aggressive and derogatory and are the main source of the toxicity that has resulted in aggressive critics as well. The whining and bitching about "trolls" needs to go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn’t make sense. I have people trying to get Me canceled for posting a tweet accusing me of trolling, etc. what a reach; even when I prove them wrong and I like things AEW is doing like WarGames coming up hopefully.
> 
> 
> It’s an overprotective defensive mechanism I think. I don’t understand how people get wired this way. it’s deranged. and AEW fans are the only fans that act this way. Not wwe, powerrr, mlw, impact or any other promotion I’ve ever encountered for that matter. Why do you think that is?
> 
> 
> Just relaying info, but empty seats and tarp-amite isn’t a good look.
Click to expand...

People got excited, then they are being let down and their feelings are hurt. Either that or they can’t understand why others are being let down and feel the need to lash out at others for feeling superior, which is irony writ large. 

I was excited about AEW and then it became obvious what their booking philosophy was going to be. The writing has been on the wall and AEW fans (I suggest we call them “trolls” to flip the word on them) just couldn’t see it because they see nothing wrong with appealing to the niche. Because that’s them! Yay!


----------



## The XL 2

patpat said:


> yes that formula is called the main roster + heavy promotion on fox and monday night raw. Dont know about that chief :lol


Yeah, and that's not really hard to do. They only sent the OC over, it's not like they sent all of their guys.


----------



## The XL 2

Dizzie said:


> So much for pushing Jericho as the main guy because he's the most well known face and would supposedly bring in the viewers.
> 
> I dont think wrestling fans want to be watching a 50 year old jericho being the most pushed guy on a wrestling show. For me an exciting wrestling product is one where you see more new faces get main event spots, this is what drew me into lucha underground as it felt fresh.
> 
> They should really be pushing Pentagon jr as their main heel character, the guy has charisma and a cool factor about him that is above everyone on both brands.


IF AEW didn't have Chris, they'd struggle to draw 400K a week and no one would have bought their PPVs. He's the only star they have. Lol at putting Pentagon on top, they'd be doing less than Impact and MLW if they did something that stupid.

AEW is fading because people thought it was going to be WCW 2.0, not PWG on TNT. I thought last weeks show was pretty good, but I hope the bad first impression doesn't wind up doing them in.


----------



## kingnoth1n

The Wood said:


> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CHAMPIONSHIPS said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kingnoth1n said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t understand the attacks towards me
> 
> 
> 
> Just shrug your shoulders and move on man. I got called a troll because I celebrated that AEW added more promos to the show. No matter how mild your criticisms are, no matter how friendly you try to be, these people will react as viciously and personally as if you pushed their child off a cliff.
> 
> Just do your thing. I don't even agree with the premise of this thread but the people who are in here tone policing need to realize that a certain segment of the AEW fanbase is UNREASONABLY aggressive and derogatory and are the main source of the toxicity that has resulted in aggressive critics as well. The whining and bitching about "trolls" needs to go
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Doesn’t make sense. I have people trying to get Me canceled for posting a tweet accusing me of trolling, etc. what a reach; even when I prove them wrong and I like things AEW is doing like WarGames coming up hopefully.
> 
> 
> It’s an overprotective defensive mechanism I think. I don’t understand how people get wired this way. it’s deranged. and AEW fans are the only fans that act this way. Not wwe, powerrr, mlw, impact or any other promotion I’ve ever encountered for that matter. Why do you think that is?
> 
> 
> Just relaying info, but empty seats and tarp-amite isn’t a good look.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> People got excited, then they are being let down and their feelings are hurt. Either that or they can’t understand why others are being let down and feel the need to lash out at others for feeling superior, which is irony writ large.
> 
> I was excited about AEW and then it became obvious what their booking philosophy was going to be. The writing has been on the wall and AEW fans (I suggest we call them “trolls” to flip the word on them) just couldn’t see it because they see nothing wrong with appealing to the niche. Because that’s them! Yay!
Click to expand...

Yeah because personal attacks, attempting to cancel etc. is going to get me on their side lol. It’d be wild and really daring if I ya know....gave an opinion or two.

No one wants to be on that side except a niche group. But I’m not even disappointed with AEW. Some areas but not many. Just relaying info like I said from the start. Lol


----------



## rbl85

Without TV they sold out their DON and All Out PPV.

Tomorrow they're going to be far from a sell out.

The set up planned for Full Gear was composed of 80 section (i don't count the main camera section) for a total of 11.857 seats.

Out of the 80 sections 18 (tarp) were never opened which means that out of the 11.587 seats you have to take off 2381 seats, that leave us with 9476 seats.

Out of the 9476 seats 1330 seats are still available on Ticketmaster and 477 on StubHub.

So for the moment there will only be 7669 people in the arena.

There will probably be more than 8K people but i think they were expecting "way" more than that.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Without TV they sold out their DON and All Out.
> 
> Tomorrow they're going to be far from a sell out.
> 
> The set up planned for Full Gear was composed of 80 section (i don't count the main camera section) for a total of 11.857 seats.
> 
> Out of the 80 sections 18 (tarp) were never opened which means that out of the 11.587 seats you have to take off 2381 seats, which left us with 9476 seats.
> 
> Out of the 9476 seats 1330 seats are still available on Ticketmaster and 477 on StubHub.
> 
> So for the moment there will only be 7669 people in the arena.
> 
> There will probably be more than 8K people but i think they were expecting "way" more than that.


This is what happens when you make a PPV, and therefore the entire first month of TV, filler. Full Gear, as I stated months ago, is nothing but filler.

The outcome of Jericho vs Cody should be a foregone conclusion.

The outcome of Moxley vs Omega not only should be a foregone conclusion, but because of the stipulation, the match doesn't even count.

And if they decide to swerve the audience in either match by having either Cody or Omega win, then they will see a decrease in viewership at an even more accelerated rate.

There's literally no reason to be invested in this PPV.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The XL 2 said:


> AEW is fading because people thought it was going to be WCW 2.0, not PWG on TNT. I thought last weeks show was pretty good, but I hope the bad first impression doesn't wind up doing them in.


That is the biggest reason ratings are dropping IMO. People expected it to be Ted Turner 2.0 after the way Kahn talked about being a major promotion with major production and a major roster. 

People expected CM Punk. People expected Sasha Banks. And people expected Randy Orton. They used Mox way too early, they should have saved him for the first Dynamite.

But they can recover. I see their madness. They want to develop guys and become a force over time. They must have complete trust with TNT


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

TKO Wrestling said:


> That is the biggest reason ratings are dropping IMO. People expected it to be Ted Turner 2.0 after the way Kahn talked about being a major promotion with major production and a major roster.
> 
> People expected CM Punk. People expected Sasha Banks. And people expected Randy Orton. They used Mox way too early, they should have saved him for the first Dynamite.
> 
> But they can recover. I see their madness. They want to develop guys and become a force over time. They must have complete trust with TNT


Agree with all of this. Only thing I'd add is that now it's going to take time for word to get around to other wrestling fans who for whatever reason haven't yet checked out AEW, whether they haven't heard of it or just haven't gotten around to tuning in. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of potential fans out there who will like what they see, but just haven't seen it yet. They will slowly trickle in, and at some point the numbers will creep back up and stabilize. I'm not about to predict where, but I'll bet a donut it'll be somewhere north of the last few weeks. 

And I honestly don't give a shit if it beats NXT or not, especially now with all the added attention WWE is throwing at it. The numbers will be what they will be, as long as they're good enough to be profitable and stay on TNT, that's all we can ask for.


----------



## Swan-San

They'll prob do about 60k.

AEW is fading because they're not providing the product most people wanted or hoped for. They only have a few stars that appeal to people other than niche indy fans, and the rest are scewing to more of a turn off than even neutral.

Also their creative is atrocious, even with the lack of stars, for a 2 hour show with the right creative it's salvable. 

The booking for Omega especially has been criminal, he's diminished so much since new japan. I remember watching an interview before tnt started where he said he wanted their show to be like game of thrones (or something) where people who don't even watch wrestling will want to watch due to the story el oh el. they're all dreamers, so far i've seen no story that an average person couldn't book. If they're serious they'll hire someone who's talents are actual writing to at least help.

Omega vs Moxley's story has just been cave man back and forth, Omega did the best promo when the first match got cancelled, but on youtube, nothing at all on tv. No promo time between the two at all in 6 weeks minus that one promo from moxley. There's no depth.

Tony Khan is too much of a fan to the point where it seems he likes everything so will allow everything, and he's the worst "x was the greatest ppv of alltime" hype merchant. Him calling double or nothing one of the greatest ppvs of all time after all the wrestling he's seen says it all. He's either disingenious or deluded in this indy era thinking that that's what most people want to see.


----------



## rbl85

That's crazy how the trolls (the real ones) are always the ones with the less posts number XD


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

In general women's wrestling doesn't sell so just take a break from it on the TV side and use that x amount of time saved on bigger things that majority people wanna watch instead should help boost the ratings a bit.

Maybe put the Women on AEW Dark exclusively for the next little bit and see what happens.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I think they’ll do 130k on PPV in the US


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Without TV they sold out their DON and All Out PPV.
> 
> Tomorrow they're going to be far from a sell out.
> 
> The set up planned for Full Gear was composed of 80 section (i don't count the main camera section) for a total of 11.857 seats.
> 
> Out of the 80 sections 18 (tarp) were never opened which means that out of the 11.587 seats you have to take off 2381 seats, that leave us with 9476 seats.
> 
> Out of the 9476 seats 1330 seats are still available on Ticketmaster and 477 on StubHub.
> 
> So for the moment there will only be 7669 people in the arena.
> 
> There will probably be more than 8K people but i think they were expecting "way" more than that.


The issue is AEW fanbase is only so big. For Double Or Nothing or All Out. They felt like must see shows because it was the first two big shows. So a lot of fans traveled to see these events. Now that there's a show on every week and in a new town every week. You aren't getting that traveling fan for big event anymore.


Overall attendance has been this...

Double Or Nothing -11k
Fyter Fest-4.2K
Fight for Fallen-5K
All Out-10.4K
First TV-11.5K
Second tv-6K
Third tv-9K
Forth tv-6K
Fifth tv-5K
Sixth tv-3.6k
Full Gear-8k plus?

Overall those attendance numbers are awesome. Now if they didn't have 6 weeks of tv in tickets. Plus next two months of tickets on sale already for tv. Well Full Gear would have sold out in minutes. But new reality is until AEW grows more(which can take a while). Is probably 3 to 6 thousand for tv and 6 to 8 thousand for ppv. Fans were just expecting too much from a start up company that's traveling around the country on weekly basis.


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> That's crazy how the trolls (the real ones) are always the ones with the less posts number XD


Not always I've seen quite a few trolls on here who've been around here for ages and who some people seem to respect and want to chat to them but they are the ones as bad as the ones with less post numbers imo.


----------



## rbl85

So for those asking about the DVR numbers.

Meltzer said that usually it's a bump of 13 to 18% (same for NXT)


----------



## The Wood

The XL 2 said:


> Dizzie said:
> 
> 
> 
> So much for pushing Jericho as the main guy because he's the most well known face and would supposedly bring in the viewers.
> 
> I dont think wrestling fans want to be watching a 50 year old jericho being the most pushed guy on a wrestling show. For me an exciting wrestling product is one where you see more new faces get main event spots, this is what drew me into lucha underground as it felt fresh.
> 
> They should really be pushing Pentagon jr as their main heel character, the guy has charisma and a cool factor about him that is above everyone on both brands.
> 
> 
> 
> IF AEW didn't have Chris, they'd struggle to draw 400K a week and no one would have bought their PPVs. He's the only star they have. Lol at putting Pentagon on top, they'd be doing less than Impact and MLW if they did something that stupid.
> 
> AEW is fading because people thought it was going to be WCW 2.0, not PWG on TNT. I thought last weeks show was pretty good, but I hope the bad first impression doesn't wind up doing them in.
Click to expand...

This second paragraph is right on point. People wanted pro-wrestling, not popcorn wrestling. 



Swan-San said:


> They'll prob do about 60k.
> 
> AEW is fading because they're not providing the product most people wanted or hoped for. They only have a few stars that appeal to people other than niche indy fans, and the rest are scewing to more of a turn off than even neutral.
> 
> Also their creative is atrocious, even with the lack of stars, for a 2 hour show with the right creative it's salvable.
> 
> The booking for Omega especially has been criminal, he's diminished so much since new japan. I remember watching an interview before tnt started where he said he wanted their show to be like game of thrones (or something) where people who don't even watch wrestling will want to watch due to the story el oh el. they're all dreamers, so far i've seen no story that an average person couldn't book. If they're serious they'll hire someone who's talents are actual writing to at least help.
> 
> Omega vs Moxley's story has just been cave man back and forth, Omega did the best promo when the first match got cancelled, but on youtube, nothing at all on tv. No promo time between the two at all in 6 weeks minus that one promo from moxley. There's no depth.
> 
> Tony Khan is too much of a fan to the point where it seems he likes everything so will allow everything, and he's the worst "x was the greatest ppv of alltime" hype merchant. Him calling double or nothing one of the greatest ppvs of all time after all the wrestling he's seen says it all. He's either disingenious or deluded in this indy era thinking that that's what most people want to see.


I’m glad I’m not the only one that has been completely underwhelmed by booking. There is a lot of stuff that doesn’t make sense. 

I’m really getting that vibe from TK, who sounds like a really smart guy, but he’s too caught up in the weeds at the moment. There needs to be a clear booker. Chris Jericho, JR, Arn Anderson or Tully Blanchard would make the most sense.


----------



## BigCy

I think I will bone out and get the PPV just to try and support these guys a little. I haven't been their biggest fan and I'm critical of a lot they've done but they seem to be trying to placate a larger audience or at least starting to and this does show some good will on their part but if this event doesn't deliver I won't be getting more. Should be a good show. I really think they should have set up a paid streaming network at the offset but I can also understand why they didn't.


----------



## Death Rider

BigCy said:


> I think I will bone out and get the PPV just to try and support these guys a little. I haven't been their biggest fan and I'm critical of a lot they've done but they seem to be trying to placate a larger audience or at least starting to and this does show some good will on their part but if this event doesn't deliver I won't be getting more. Should be a good show. I really think they should have set up a paid streaming network at the offset but I can also understand why they didn't.


The problem is how much content they can offer. For wwe they have tons and tons and tons of footage to use for it as an example


----------



## BigCy

looper007 said:


> Not always I've seen quite a few trolls on here who've been around here for ages and who some people seem to respect and want to chat to them but they are the ones as bad as the ones with less post numbers imo.


The real problem is the people who get up in arms because they hear something negative from someone. The so called "troll" posters are some of the best posters here and not necessarily because I agree with their talking points. I even think you're a good poster even though I don't agree with what you say 90% of the time, I just find it absurd that contrary opinions and gripes cause you so much discomfort that you feel the need to block half the forum for disagreeing with you. Negative or contrary viewpoints are a real thing and trust me it's ok.


----------



## BigCy

Death Rider said:


> The problem is how much content they can offer. For wwe they have tons and tons and tons of footage to use for it as an example


Yeah I get that but it would still work for live viewing and if you missed a show then you can just watch it in the archive. I'm sure they considered it and made the best decision for themselves at this time.


----------



## Death Rider

BigCy said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is how much content they can offer. For wwe they have tons and tons and tons of footage to use for it as an example
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I get that but it would still work for live viewing and if you missed a show then you can just watch it in the archive. I'm sure they considered it and made the best decision for themselves at this time.
Click to expand...

Problem is it takes away from tv if they do that in the states. I use the fite.tv app and it work for me quite well but I can't see it appealing to everyone


----------



## Britz94xD

They need to give CM Punk the old Hogan in WCW contract or suck up to New Japan pronto.


----------



## Beatles123

BigCy said:


> The real problem is the people who get up in arms because they hear something negative from someone. The so called "troll" posters are some of the best posters here and not necessarily because I agree with their talking points. I even think you're a good poster even though I don't agree with what you say 90% of the time, I just find it absurd that contrary opinions and gripes cause you so much discomfort that you feel the need to block half the forum for disagreeing with you. Negative or contrary viewpoints are a real thing and trust me it's ok.


There is no "real" problem. Both sides are just as valid an issue.


----------



## Bosnian21

Britz94xD said:


> They need to give CM Punk the old Hogan in WCW contract or suck up to New Japan pronto.


I wouldn’t even mind seeing them sign CM Punk to a two-match deal or something. He wrestles two PPVs. Wins the title at the first one, then drops it at the 2nd one. He appears on several TVs, just for promos. I think the hype would be huge and he’d be there for six months.


----------



## The Wood

BigCy said:


> looper007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not always I've seen quite a few trolls on here who've been around here for ages and who some people seem to respect and want to chat to them but they are the ones as bad as the ones with less post numbers imo.
> 
> 
> 
> The real problem is the people who get up in arms because they hear something negative from someone. The so called "troll" posters are some of the best posters here and not necessarily because I agree with their talking points. I even think you're a good poster even though I don't agree with what you say 90% of the time, I just find it absurd that contrary opinions and gripes cause you so much discomfort that you feel the need to block half the forum for disagreeing with you. Negative or contrary viewpoints are a real thing and trust me it's ok.
Click to expand...

Much love to you, BigCy. 

Good on you for supporting the PPV if you can. I’m very curious to see how it does. LifeinCattle expects 130k which would shock me and be an absolutely fantastic number.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Much love to you, BigCy.
> 
> Good on you for supporting the PPV if you can. I’m very curious to see how it does. LifeinCattle expects 130k which would shock me and be an absolutely fantastic number.


130K only for the US ? I highly doubt it.

If they do 130K worldwide it will be already a great number.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

looper007 said:


> I think a lot of the trolls on here, and I call them trolls cause that's what they are. They were going to hate on AEW no matter what. You see a thread already started by one of them about tarp and crap like that. They badly want it to fail, they can taste it. Nothing about patience or wanting it to be a success.
> 
> If you see anyone say "I'm a AEW fan but..." you know they want it to fail.


To be fair, you guys have to quit biting the bait, too. If you know it's just a post to entice a particular reaction, then don't give it the time of day. If you enjoy the show, just enjoy it. Don't let contrarians take it away from you. It's just a loud minority anyways.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I think they’ll do 130k on PPV in the US


I gotta disagree with you here, bro. I think buys are gonna follow the current tv viewing trend and have a tough time cracking 100k. I’d prefer you were right, but I just don’t see 130k this time. 

Not to mention, are we even getting numbers from B/R on these shows? I’ve been going with them because it’s $50 vs $60 through my crap-ass cable provider.


----------



## rbl85

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I gotta disagree with you here, bro. I think buys are gonna follow the current tv viewing trend and have a tough time cracking 100k. I’d prefer you were right, but I just don’t see 130k this time.
> 
> Not to mention, are we even getting numbers from B/R on these shows? I’ve been going with them because it’s $50 vs $60 through my crap-ass cable provider.


You have the numbers of B/R live, PPV, FiteTV, ITV.


----------



## looper007

LIL' WINNING FOOT said:


> To be fair, you guys have to quit biting the bait, too. If you know it's just a post to entice a particular reaction, then don't give it the time of day. If you enjoy the show, just enjoy it. Don't let contrarians take it away from you. It's just a loud minority anyways.


I put all of them on ignore, their crap keeps popping up cause people are still answering them lol. I love the show. I'm happy lol.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> The issue is AEW fanbase is only so big. For Double Or Nothing or All Out. They felt like must see shows because it was the first two big shows. So a lot of fans traveled to see these events. Now that there's a show on every week and in a new town every week. You aren't getting that traveling fan for big event anymore.
> 
> 
> Overall attendance has been this...
> 
> Double Or Nothing -11k
> Fyter Fest-4.2K
> Fight for Fallen-5K
> All Out-10.4K
> First TV-11.5K
> Second tv-6K
> Third tv-9K
> Forth tv-6K
> Fifth tv-5K
> Sixth tv-3.6k
> Full Gear-8k plus?
> 
> Overall those attendance numbers are awesome. Now if they didn't have 6 weeks of tv in tickets. Plus next two months of tickets on sale already for tv. Well Full Gear would have sold out in minutes. But new reality is until AEW grows more(which can take a while). Is probably 3 to 6 thousand for tv and 6 to 8 thousand for ppv. Fans were just expecting too much from a start up company that's traveling around the country on weekly basis.


Where did you get 3.6 for last show? I have seen 5k as the number.

Full gear looks to be more than 8k, they have a couple thousand tickets left in a 14k arena, a quarter of the seats are not lost because there are no seats at the end the stage will be. For ppv you will still have travelling fans, especially since they are not monthly. I travel to a lot of shows and there are people that go to every wwe event, and it's not just the people in the front row. It actually makes the crowds at ppvs completely different from the crowds you get at weekly shows. Aew will definitely have a good amount of traveling fans. 

Agree with you fans were expecting too much because of the initial hype and some of us even talked about that back then that it would make people think they were doing poorly once if cooled down. But in fact they are doing really well with those numbers, they were just far exceeding them at the start.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> Where did you get 3.6 for last show? I have seen 5k as the number.
> 
> Full gear looks to be more than 8k, they have a couple thousand tickets left in a 14k arena, a quarter of the seats are not lost because there are no seats at the end the stage will be. For ppv you will still have travelling fans, especially since they are not monthly. I travel to a lot of shows and there are people that go to every wwe event, and it's not just the people in the front row. It actually makes the crowds at ppvs completely different from the crowds you get at weekly shows. Aew will definitely have a good amount of traveling fans.


The arena is set to have a maximum of 12K people.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> The arena is set to have a maximum of 12K people.


are you counting the 800-1000 tickets on the floor? If they have 9-10k will be a big success, it's a bigger place than Sears center remember. 

that's what I was talking about in the part of the quote you left out, we need to get off the expectations of them selling out everything, it's not required to be successful. Especially since they have a lot less overhead than wwe and yet are doing similar numbers right now. Summerslam did 13k, HIAC did 10k. They are a brand new company doing this kind of business, a year after Metzger said no one could do a one off show with 10k. If you had told someone last year if a promotion would be doing anything close to what aew is doing people would have thought you were on something.


----------



## imthegame19

Jonhern said:


> Where did you get 3.6 for last show? I have seen 5k as the number.
> 
> Full gear looks to be more than 8k, they have a couple thousand tickets left in a 14k arena, a quarter of the seats are not lost because there are no seats at the end the stage will be. For ppv you will still have travelling fans, especially since they are not monthly. I travel to a lot of shows and there are people that go to every wwe event, and it's not just the people in the front row. It actually makes the crowds at ppvs completely different from the crowds you get at weekly shows. Aew will definitely have a good amount of traveling fans.
> 
> Agree with you fans were expecting too much because of the initial hype and some of us even talked about that back then that it would make people think they were doing poorly once if cooled down. But in fact they are doing really well with those numbers, they were just far exceeding them at the start.


Meltzer reported that it only did 3,600 or at least that was paid attendance. I think Royal Farms arena is 11 K or so for wrestling. But still selling 8,000 of 11,800 seats or whatever is not bad in this day and age for wrestling.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> are you counting the 800-1000 tickets on the floor? If they have 9-10k will be a big success, it's a bigger place than Sears center remember.
> 
> that's what I was talking about in the part of the quote you left out, we need to get off the expectations of them selling out everything, it's not required to be successful. Especially since they have a lot less overhead than wwe and yet are doing similar numbers right now. Summerslam did 13k, HIAC did 10k. They are a brand new company doing this kind of business, a year after Metzger said no one could do a one off show with 10k. If you had told someone last year if a promotion would be doing anything close to what aew is doing people would have thought you were on something.


I'm just saying that i counted every seats on Ticketmaster and 11857 seats were available at the beginning ( i don't count the section with the main cam).

For the moment, 7783 tickets are sold. 
The side were the main cam is, is going to look like what we saw in Charlotte.


----------



## imthegame19

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I gotta disagree with you here, bro. I think buys are gonna follow the current tv viewing trend and have a tough time cracking 100k. I’d prefer you were right, but I just don’t see 130k this time.
> 
> Not to mention, are we even getting numbers from B/R on these shows? I’ve been going with them because it’s $50 vs $60 through my crap-ass cable provider.


Yeah It has a good card probably better then Double Or Nothing and All Out. So I still think it will do well but probably 75-80k.


----------



## rbl85

It might do less in the US but i think it will do a lot more in in the rest of the world.


----------



## The Wood

LIL' WINNING FOOT said:


> looper007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of the trolls on here, and I call them trolls cause that's what they are. They were going to hate on AEW no matter what. You see a thread already started by one of them about tarp and crap like that. They badly want it to fail, they can taste it. Nothing about patience or wanting it to be a success.
> 
> If you see anyone say "I'm a AEW fan but..." you know they want it to fail.
> 
> 
> 
> To be fair, you guys have to quit biting the bait, too. If you know it's just a post to entice a particular reaction, then don't give it the time of day. If you enjoy the show, just enjoy it. Don't let contrarians take it away from you. It's just a loud minority anyways.
Click to expand...

Most wrestling fans do not like what AEW is putting out. Critics are not in the minority. 

I got 41k as a domestic estimate for FG buys. Let’s give them 42k. Usually it seems about a third of their domestic buys equate to the international ones. That will be an additional 14k. That’s 56k all up. Anything above that will be a pleasant first-of-TV surprise.


----------



## BigCy

Death Rider said:


> Problem is it takes away from tv if they do that in the states. I use the fite.tv app and it work for me quite well but I can't see it appealing to everyone


Yeah, I know. Honestly it's mostly the selfish side of me that wants it because I don't have cable and live in the US so I don't have the streaming option although I would get it in a heartbeat if I could. And I know in the long run they would make more money doing TV so that's why they chose it. 



Beatles123 said:


> There is no "real" problem. Both sides are just as valid an issue.


I can appreciate you trying to find a neutral and middle ground. 

I don't think anyone on here is a real troll, including people I disagree with, I just hate that term being thrown around all the time for no legitimate reason. A troll is someone who just posts links to shady websites or just purposely posts random stuff like "my butt is blue." NO ONE on here fits that description. What we have here are varying fans with different opinions and personally I like to hear both sides and like to weigh the opinions and insights of everyone to get a broader picture of what kind of thought processes are out there. 




The Wood said:


> Much love to you, BigCy.
> 
> Good on you for supporting the PPV if you can. I’m very curious to see how it does. LifeinCattle expects 130k which would shock me and be an absolutely fantastic number.


Thank you Wood. Same, as you know I enjoy the vast majority of your posts. Yeah I decided eh what the heck, why not give it a shot, the card looks decent and I have extra money and I like that AEW is listening to fans and adding more variety to their show so I think it's time to show a little financial support, but they gotta make this show good for me to be a returning PPV customer. For some reason I'm thinking 80k will be the number, give or take 5k.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Google trends has Full Gear trending higher than All Out relative to time before the show.

Not necessarily a fair comparison since they are on TV now, but generally speaking, google trend numbers are much more applicable to PPV buys than it is for TV ratings. Has always been that case for UFC.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I gotta disagree with you here, bro. I think buys are gonna follow the current tv viewing trend and have a tough time cracking 100k. I’d prefer you were right, but I just don’t see 130k this time.
> 
> Not to mention, are we even getting numbers from B/R on these shows? I’ve been going with them because it’s $50 vs $60 through my crap-ass cable provider.


Didn’t they do 100k without tv?

I was hoping tv would give them an extra 30k

Whelp... I made my call - gonna be a man and stick by it.... but yes, I might’ve gotten that wrong


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Didn’t they do 100k without tv?
> 
> I was hoping tv would give them an extra 30k
> 
> Whelp... I made my call - gonna be a man and stick by it.... but yes, I might’ve gotten that wrong


Do like the WWE.

Hope that nobody will remember


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Google trends has Full Gear trending higher than All Out relative to time before the show.
> 
> Not necessarily a fair comparison since they are on TV now, but generally speaking, google trend numbers are much more applicable to PPV buys than it is for TV ratings. Has always been that case for UFC.


What time frames are you looking at?

Because comparing both of them world wide over a time frame of 12 months, All Out is at a relative score of 66 on the week of August 25-31 and Full Gear is at 17 right now on the week of November 3-9. Of course, the data on Full Gear is incomplete, because we've got the rest of the day to go, and it will be around 7 PM ET when the massive spike in Google search happens anyways. We have to wait until tomorrow to get a better idea.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEWMoxley said:


> What time frames are you looking at?
> 
> Because comparing both of them world wide over a time frame of 12 months, All Out is at a relative score of 66 on the week of August 25-31 and Full Gear is at 17 right now on the week of November 3-9. Of course, the data on Full Gear is incomplete, because we've got the rest of the day to go, and it will be around 7 PM ET when the massive spike in Google search happens anyways. We have to wait until tomorrow to get a better idea.


You can't look at it that way, when I was looking at the data, the 12 month time period had only been updated up to November 5th, which is only Tuesday. 

What you have to do is first put the time window from 8/24-8/31 so you can see the exact trends leading up into all out, and then change it to last 7 days for Full Gear because that's how you'll get stats for 11/6, 11/7 and 11/8


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Checked trends again, Full Gear is trending roughly twice that of all out if we look at search metrics from Thursday, which would be 11/7 and compare it to the Thursday before All Out which was 8/29.

Again, not completely a fair comparison given that TV started, and they did the hard push for the show on Wednesday night on TV, that trickles into Thursday so you would think a lot more people would be searching, but still, it's something to look at.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> You can't look at it that way, when I was looking at the data, the 12 month time period had only been updated up to November 5th, which is only Tuesday.
> 
> What you have to do is first put the time window from 8/24-8/31 so you can see the exact trends leading up into all out, and then change it to last 7 days for Full Gear because that's how you'll get stats for 11/6, 11/7 and 11/8


Right, the data is incomplete. But the comparison you suggested doesn't work, unfortunately. It would be fine if Google Trends gave you the actual number of searches, but it doesn't. It only gives you a score relative to the highest point in that specific time frame. So 100 is peak interest, and 50 would indicate half of the interest of the highest point.

You can't compare two search terms across two different time periods. You have to compare them at once over the same period. The 12 month comparison will work in a couple of days because we will have data up to and including November 9.



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Checked trends again, Full Gear is trending roughly twice that of all out if we look at search metrics from Thursday, which would be 11/7 and compare it to the Thursday before All Out which was 8/29.
> 
> Again, not completely a fair comparison given that TV started, and they did the hard push for the show on Wednesday night on TV, that trickles into Thursday so you would think a lot more people would be searching, but still, it's something to look at.


Another reason why this comparison doesn't work is because if you use "last 7 days" for Full Gear, it will give you hourly numbers, while for All Out you are getting daily numbers.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEWMoxley said:


> Right, the data is incomplete. But the comparison you suggested doesn't work, unfortunately. It would be fine if Google Trends gave you the actual number of searches, but it doesn't. It only gives you a score relative to the highest point in that specific time frame. So 100 is peak interest, and 50 would indicate half of the interest of the highest point.


My bad, I explained it incorrectly in the first post. Here's what you do, you look at last 90 days because that takes you back a few weeks before All Out, and you can see the daily trend numbers for the show. If you go to 12 months you get weekly metrics which isn't really usable.

If you look at 11/7 then, which is Thursday before FG, it's trending about twice as well as Thursday before All Out which was 8/29.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> My bad, I explained it incorrectly in the first post. Here's what you do, you look at last 90 days because that takes you back a few weeks before All Out, and you can see the daily trend numbers for the show. If you go to 12 months you get weekly metrics which isn't really usable.
> 
> If you look at 11/7 then, which is Thursday before FG, it's trending about twice as well as Thursday before All Out which was 8/29.


Ok, fair enough.

Still, though, all of this will pale in comparison to the number of searches we will see starting 7 PM. The number of searches starting then will be a better indicator of how well the PPV will do in comparison to All Out. We won't know that until around Monday.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Didn’t they do 100k without tv?
> 
> I was hoping tv would give them an extra 30k
> 
> Whelp... I made my call - gonna be a man and stick by it.... but yes, I might’ve gotten that wrong


Hmmmmmm .... you and @The Inbred Goatman just reminded me of that not so insignificant point, that weekly tv hadn’t started yet when All Out aired. I forgot. Will definitely be interesting to see if tv makes a difference in the buys. 
I’ll bet you a tea and a crumpet — closer to 100k I win, 130k you win.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEWMoxley said:


> Ok, fair enough.
> 
> Still, though, all of this will pale in comparison to the number of searches we will see starting 7 PM. The number of searches starting then will be a better indicator of how well the PPV will do in comparison to All Out. We won't know that until around Monday.


What you could do is look at the 90 days, see that it's around 11 for Full Gears Thursday Vs. The 6 that it is for All Out's Thursday, then change it to last 7 days, and assess the growth from this past Thursday until right now and do some mental math. Right now, it's peaking, as it should be and doing about twice the amount of searches from Thursday, and that should increase drastically for the rest of the day as you say.

We'll have a decent idea by 6-7 if you continue looking at the trends and monitor it that way.


----------



## Taroostyles

If they do 100k buys off a tv audience of 800k-1m viewers that would be extremely impressive.


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> If they do 100k buys off a tv audience of 800k-1m viewers that would be extremely impressive.


Except that for a PPV the audience is the world.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> What you could do is look at the 90 days, see that it's around 11 for Full Gears Thursday Vs. The 6 that it is for All Out's Thursday, then change it to last 7 days, and assess the growth from this past Thursday until right now and do some mental math. Right now, it's peaking, as it should be and doing about twice the amount of searches from Thursday, and that should increase drastically for the rest of the day as you say.
> 
> We'll have a decent idea by 6-7 if you continue looking at the trends and monitor it that way.


Switching to "last 7 days" gives you hourly data, though, while 90 days gives you daily data. It's impossible to tell how many searches there have been in since Thursday.


----------



## rbl85

If Full Gear buys off beat DON or All Out it will probably be because of the buys in the rest of the world.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Hmmmmmm .... you and @The Inbred Goatman just reminded me of that not so insignificant point, that weekly tv hadn’t started yet when All Out aired. I forgot. Will definitely be interesting to see if tv makes a difference in the buys.
> I’ll bet you a tea and a crumpet — closer to 100k I win, 130k you win.


I’ll take that bet!


----------



## NathanMayberry

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

Super Tarp Party?


----------



## AEWMoxley

For what it's worth, Logan Paul vs KSI 2 is happening tonight, and it's absolutely obliterating Full Gear in terms of Google searches. This is a big fight that will generate a ton of views.

The first fight did over 1 million buys.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> For what it's worth, Logan Paul vs KSI 2 is happening tonight, and it's absolutely obliterating Full Gear in terms of Google searches. This is a big fight that will generate a ton of views.
> 
> The first fight did over 1 million buys.


I don't think the audience is the same for AEW and this "fight"


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I don't think the audience is the same for AEW and this "fight"


Well, the fight is big with the same demo that AEW has targeted. It's a circus fight between two non-professionals. It's much closer to professional wrestling than a boxing match, that's for sure.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> AEWMoxley said:
> 
> 
> 
> For what it's worth, Logan Paul vs KSI 2 is happening tonight, and it's absolutely obliterating Full Gear in terms of Google searches. This is a big fight that will generate a ton of views.
> 
> The first fight did over 1 million buys.
Click to expand...

there is a slight crossover. Not very big but that dumb Logan paul fight has a lot of zoomer talking about it and zoomer's are basically aew's audience 
But I doubt It will hurt them that much 

I


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> there is a slight crossover. Not very big but that dumb Logan paul fight has a lot of zoomer talking about it and zoomer's are basically aew's audience
> But I doubt It will hurt them that much
> 
> I


Zoomer ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



NathanMayberry said:


> Super Tarp Party?


Damm.... guess it will be super quiet, huh?


----------



## Taroostyles

No one that was gonna buy the AEW PPV is gonna change their minds to watch a celebrity boxing match. 

Even if the audience might be similar. These are the people who wouldn't have bought the show anyway.


----------



## virus21

rbl85 said:


> Zoomer ?


Gen Z


----------



## rbl85

I don't think that the people who bought DON or All out were super young.


----------



## Strike Force

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

I rarely frequent the AEW section even though I watch every episode, but geez...are the AEW fans always this defensive?
@kingnoth1n ; posted a legit picture of the tarped-off sections. Sure, the title was a little inflammatory, but it's not as if the picture was followed by a long rant about how AEW is headed down the tubes (which it's not). Do the AEW stans really flip out anytime AEW catches any flak?

And for those calling King a troll in this thread - no, he's not. There are multiple threads every day calling out WWE for one misstep or another. I fail to see how pointing out a third-empty AEW arena qualifies as trolling.

As for judging WWE and AEW with the same measuring stick...I'm not really offended by it, because you can spin it both ways. 

WWE could have an advantage because they're the established brand, or they could be at a disadvantage because we've seen their shit a million times and we're sick of it.

AEW could have an advantage because their product is fresh and new and many markets are seeing it for the first or second time, or they could be at a disadvantage because they've had so little time to build and promote the brand.

You can manipulate the narrative any way you'd like, really.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Strike Force said:


> *I rarely frequent the AEW section even though I watch every episode, but geez...are the AEW fans always this defensive?*
> 
> @kingnoth1n ; posted a legit picture of the tarped-off sections. Sure, the title was a little inflammatory, but it's not as if the picture was followed by a long rant about how AEW is headed down the tubes (which it's not). Do the AEW stans really flip out anytime AEW catches any flak?
> 
> And for those calling King a troll in this thread - no, he's not. There are multiple threads every day calling out WWE for one misstep or another. I fail to see how pointing out a third-empty AEW arena qualifies as trolling.
> 
> As for judging WWE and AEW with the same measuring stick...I'm not really offended by it, because you can spin it both ways.
> 
> WWE could have an advantage because they're the established brand, or they could be at a disadvantage because we've seen their shit a million times and we're sick of it.
> 
> AEW could have an advantage because their product is fresh and new and many markets are seeing it for the first or second time, or they could be at a disadvantage because they've had so little time to build and promote the brand.
> 
> You can manipulate the narrative any way you'd like, really.


Yes we are


----------



## Tilon

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



Strike Force said:


> I rarely frequent the AEW section even though I watch every episode, but geez...are the AEW fans always this defensive?
> 
> @kingnoth1n ; posted a legit picture of the tarped-off sections. Sure, the title was a little inflammatory


You answered your own question. noth1n is only here to stir crap and strut around like a peacock in the argument he started.


----------



## ellthom

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*

To show I am an equal opportunist, I'll spread the gif love..










Wrestling in 2019. Not exclusive to WWE unfortunately... At least NXT and NWA are smart to use smaller venues. Which is why they're both the better shows in my opinion. No disrespect against AEW, I love AEW. But they were too ambitious. I prefer smaller venues too so thats my bias.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



ellthom said:


> To show I am an equal opportunist, I'll spread the gif love..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling in 2019. Not exclusive to WWE unfortunately... At least NXT and NWA are smart to use smaller venues. Which is why they're both the better shows in my opinion. No disrespect against AEW, I love AEW. But they were too ambitious. I prefer smaller venues too so thats my bias.
> 
> Nothing wrong with being 4th best though. At least you aint Raw and Smackdown.


I'm sorry but less than 400 people is too small.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> ellthom said:
> 
> 
> 
> To show I am an equal opportunist, I'll spread the gif love..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling in 2019. Not exclusive to WWE unfortunately... At least NXT and NWA are smart to use smaller venues. Which is why they're both the better shows in my opinion. No disrespect against AEW, I love AEW. But they were too ambitious. I prefer smaller venues too so thats my bias.
> 
> Nothing wrong with being 4th best though. At least you aint Raw and Smackdown. <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry but less than 400 people is too small.
Click to expand...

Not for studio wrestling. NWA Power is consistently the best weekly show.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> I don't think that the people who bought DON or All out were super young.


 agreed lol
I dont think it's about the age but the mindset, their fanbase as a certain mindset a modern one. Dont know if I am wording it well


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



The Wood said:


> Not for studio wrestling. *NWA Power is consistently the best weekly show.*


Wrestling is like colors and taste, everybody have a different preference.


----------



## The Wood

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Google trends has Full Gear trending higher than All Out relative to time before the show.
> 
> Not necessarily a fair comparison since they are on TV now, but generally speaking, google trend numbers are much more applicable to PPV buys than it is for TV ratings. Has always been that case for UFC.


My initial prediction was that Full Gear would get a proportionately higher segment of the TV audience to give it a crack, before it falls again. Google Trends might be reflecting that. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> Reggie Dunlop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta disagree with you here, bro. I think buys are gonna follow the current tv viewing trend and have a tough time cracking 100k. I’d prefer you were right, but I just don’t see 130k this time.
> 
> Not to mention, are we even getting numbers from B/R on these shows? I’ve been going with them because it’s $50 vs $60 through my crap-ass cable provider.
> 
> 
> 
> Didn’t they do 100k without tv?
> 
> I was hoping tv would give them an extra 30k
> 
> Whelp... I made my call - gonna be a man and stick by it.... but yes, I might’ve gotten that wrong <img src="http://www.wrestlingforum.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

They did something like 71k domestic for DON and an estimated 65k for AO. You’re getting the worldwide number which Meltzer conflated with domestic to do the whole “no other promotion outside of WCW has done this” narrative. 

But they’ve also had a terrible retention rate for PPV thus far (~27k people who ordered DON ordered AO) and lost most of their predicted TV audience from correlating buys. A 5% conversion rate would normally be expected. That’s how the TV audience lined up with buys. 5% of the current TV audience is 41k domestic.

If it does higher, I’d say that’d be a lot of first-time buyers saying “Well, I’ll give them a go on PPV” and see how they go. Thus far, you can probably expect about 38% to stick around.


----------



## ellthom

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



rbl85 said:


> I'm sorry but less than 400 people is too small.


But at least it's full. Problem with some wrestling promotions is they rents out these huge arenas and it's a waste of money if no one is buying in, it isnt 2000 anymore, wrestling isn't big. They need to start thinking of bringing it down and stop trying to be something it wont be in this day and age.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



rbl85 said:


> Wrestling is like colors and taste, everybody have a different preference.


I can recognise and appreciate that NWA is a good show and will have a fan base.

But geez, I tried and its not for me

Might be because that studio wrestling period was before my time. Holds no nostalgia value.

So, it just feels..... old, or ‘meta’ - even parody

But i understand why some people will love it


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



ellthom said:


> But at least it's full. Problem with some wrestling promotions is they rents out these huge arenas and it's a waste of money if no one is buying in, it isnt 2000 anymore, wrestling isn't big. They need to start think bringing it down and stop trying to be something it wont be in this day and age.


They sell between 4k to 8k per show

People are buying in - not once did it feel ‘empty’


----------



## ellthom

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> I can recognise and appreciate that NWA is a good show and will have a fan base.
> 
> But geez, I tried and its not for me
> 
> Might be because that studio wrestling period was before my time. Holds no nostalgia value.
> 
> So, it just feels..... old, or ‘meta’ - even parody
> 
> But i understand why some people will love it


As a fan of NWA powerrr I agree I also find a little bit of satire in it too, like its playing up on the nostalgia and that's it;s self aware. You only have to look at their adds they do to see that. But I do agree I totally see why some might not like it either and thats fine


----------



## The Wood

I’m going to get accused of trolling because of this, but AEW trolls opened the door. For those of you who got all giddy because AEW beat SmackDown one week, they just got 2.618 million for a taped show. That’s well over triple what it is estimated AEW got this week. More than three times as many people saw Imperium than heard that Cody promo live. 

I bring this up because it is important to keep perspective. This is why AEW are going to struggle to secure top stars going forward. It also shows what popularity they _don’t_ have. This is the cool product in the bubble only.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not for studio wrestling. *NWA Power is consistently the best weekly show.*
> 
> 
> 
> Wrestling is like colors and taste, everybody have a different preference.
Click to expand...

I get so sick of this “everything is subjective” mentality. Yes, people have different tastes. Chocolate tastes better than horse shit though. You can still discuss why something is good and how it is successful at setting out what it sets out to do. 

If you don’t want to discuss wrestling’s quality, fine, but I don’t know why you’d come to a wrestling forum. 

I didn’t grow up on studio wrestling, so nostalgia has little to do with the NWA’s power to me. It’s the free promos, the matches that don’t try to squeeze 8 billion high spots and false finishes in and actually tell a story with different styles. Things are so snappy too. I tried watching AEW after NWA once, and I couldn’t get through the fucking intro and entrances. Everything takes sooooo long. My advice is don’t try that.

Just my opinion, guys! Opinion! Opinion coming through!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



The Wood said:


> I get so sick of this “everything is subjective” mentality. Yes, people have different tastes. Chocolate tastes better than horse shit though. You can still discuss why something is good and how it is successful at setting out what it sets out to do.
> 
> If you don’t want to discuss wrestling’s quality, fine, but I don’t know why you’d come to a wrestling forum.
> 
> I didn’t grow up on studio wrestling, so nostalgia has little to do with the NWA’s power to me. It’s the free promos, the matches that don’t try to squeeze 8 billion high spots and false finishes in and actually tell a story with different styles. Things are so snappy too. I tried watching AEW after NWA once, and I couldn’t get through the fucking intro and entrances. Everything takes sooooo long. My advice is don’t try that.
> 
> Just my opinion, guys! Opinion! Opinion coming through!


Awesome

My opinion is NWA is as boring as white bread dipped in milk and should not even be discussed in the same general planet as AEW

Hey... it’s only an opinion


----------



## rbl85

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



The Wood said:


> I get so sick of this “everything is subjective” mentality. Yes, people have different tastes. Chocolate tastes better than horse shit though. You can still discuss why something is good and how it is successful at setting out what it sets out to do.
> 
> If you don’t want to discuss wrestling’s quality, fine, but I don’t know why you’d come to a wrestling forum.
> 
> I didn’t grow up on studio wrestling, so nostalgia has little to do with the NWA’s power to me. It’s the free promos, the matches that don’t try to squeeze 8 billion high spots and false
> I think finishes in and actually tell a story with different styles. Things are so snappy too. I tried watching AEW after NWA once, and I couldn’t get through the fucking intro and entrances. Everything takes sooooo long. My advice is don’t try that.
> 
> Just my opinion, guys! Opinion! Opinion coming through!


I think AEW is better than NWA.....what else do you want me to say ?

Seriously calm the fuck down...


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



LifeInCattleClass said:


> I can recognise and appreciate that NWA is a good show and will have a fan base.
> 
> 
> 
> But geez, I tried and its not for me
> 
> 
> 
> Might be because that studio wrestling period was before my time. Holds no nostalgia value.
> 
> 
> 
> So, it just feels..... old, or ‘meta’ - even parody
> 
> 
> 
> But i understand why some people will love it


Yeah it really feels like a parody lol. Feels like if WWE really ran with the SouthPaw Regional shit


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get so sick of this “everything is subjective” mentality. Yes, people have different tastes. Chocolate tastes better than horse shit though. You can still discuss why something is good and how it is successful at setting out what it sets out to do.
> 
> If you don’t want to discuss wrestling’s quality, fine, but I don’t know why you’d come to a wrestling forum.
> 
> I didn’t grow up on studio wrestling, so nostalgia has little to do with the NWA’s power to me. It’s the free promos, the matches that don’t try to squeeze 8 billion high spots and false finishes in and actually tell a story with different styles. Things are so snappy too. I tried watching AEW after NWA once, and I couldn’t get through the fucking intro and entrances. Everything takes sooooo long. My advice is don’t try that.
> 
> Just my opinion, guys! Opinion! Opinion coming through!
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome
> 
> My opinion is NWA is as boring as white bread dipped in milk and should not even be discussed in the same general planet as AEW
> 
> Hey... it’s only an opinion
Click to expand...

And you are exactly the sort of fan that I think is pushing wrestling into a wall of white noise and decreasing interest. 



rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I get so sick of this “everything is subjective” mentality. Yes, people have different tastes. Chocolate tastes better than horse shit though. You can still discuss why something is good and how it is successful at setting out what it sets out to do.
> 
> If you don’t want to discuss wrestling’s quality, fine, but I don’t know why you’d come to a wrestling forum.
> 
> I didn’t grow up on studio wrestling, so nostalgia has little to do with the NWA’s power to me. It’s the free promos, the matches that don’t try to squeeze 8 billion high spots and false
> I think finishes in and actually tell a story with different styles. Things are so snappy too. I tried watching AEW after NWA once, and I couldn’t get through the fucking intro and entrances. Everything takes sooooo long. My advice is don’t try that.
> 
> Just my opinion, guys! Opinion! Opinion coming through!
> 
> 
> 
> I think AEW is better than NWA.....what else do you want me to say ?
> 
> Seriously calm the fuck down...
Click to expand...

Who’s not calm? You’re projecting a mood there. You’re allowed to like AEW, but it doesn’t mean it’s quality stuff. Some people like seafood on their pizza.


----------



## kingnoth1n

lol merged. Smh.


----------



## Whysoserious?

The Wood said:


> I’m going to get accused of trolling because of this, but AEW trolls opened the door. For those of you who got all giddy because AEW beat SmackDown one week, they just got 2.618 million for a taped show. That’s well over triple what it is estimated AEW got this week. More than three times as many people saw Imperium than heard that Cody promo live.
> 
> I bring this up because it is important to keep perspective. This is why AEW are going to struggle to secure top stars going forward. It also shows what popularity they _don’t_ have. This is the cool product in the bubble only.


Agreed, a majority of people doesn’t care for AEW and NXT


----------



## iarwain

I watched the movie _Fighting With My Family_ the other day (which was surprisingly good). There was a line in there where they specifically said Paige was to be signed to _NXT Developmental_.

I just thought that was interesting, since WWE now claims that NXT is not developmental, and they are apparently trying to place it on a par with the main rosters, if not superior to them. I guess the developmental aspect could have changed since then, but still.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

iarwain said:


> I watched the movie _Fighting With My Family_ the other day (which was surprisingly good). There was a line in there where they specifically said Paige was to be signed to _NXT Developmental_.
> 
> I just thought that was interesting, since WWE now claims that NXT is not developmental, and they are apparently trying to place it on a par with the main rosters, if not superior to them. I guess the developmental aspect could have changed since then, but still.


If there were no AEW, WWE would still be calling it developmental and nothing out of the ordinary would be occurring on NXT.


----------



## iarwain

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> If there were no AEW, WWE would still be calling it developmental and nothing out of the ordinary would be occurring on NXT.


And it would still be airing exclusively on the WWE Network.

AND Vince McMahon would not give two sh!ts about it.


----------



## volde

Aren't they getting something like 50mil for NXT? Why would Vince ignore it even if AEW wasn't around?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Wood said:


> _*And you are exactly the sort of fan that I think is pushing wrestling into a wall of white noise and decreasing interest. *_
> 
> 
> 
> Who’s not calm? You’re projecting a mood there. You’re allowed to like AEW, but it doesn’t mean it’s quality stuff. Some people like seafood on their pizza.


Hey... don’t get toxic... its just an opinion

Geez, you NWA fans are so sensitive. Can’t take criticisms.

Low youtube views, lol

(I’m trolling you btw - like whatever you want. NWA is fine. Just not for me)


----------



## Dave Santos

rbl85 said:


> Reggie Dunlop said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta disagree with you here, bro. I think buys are gonna follow the current tv viewing trend and have a tough time cracking 100k. I’d prefer you were right, but I just don’t see 130k this time.
> 
> Not to mention, are we even getting numbers from B/R on these shows? I’ve been going with them because it’s $50 vs $60 through my crap-ass cable provider.
> 
> 
> 
> You have the numbers of B/R live, PPV, FiteTV, ITV.
Click to expand...

My friend that I watched at got the ppv on playstation. Was suprised they had it on there as an option.


----------



## Soul Rex

Dude Powerr presentation is fucking awful, it looks all old and boring, not to mention they don't have a big budget and it's not accesible, definitely not something for me.

However, their promo system and wrestling style, dear god that shit good, they also have a good amount of solid talent. AEW should absorb it.


----------



## Jonhern

*Re: AEW Tarp-amite is in Full Effect Now*



ellthom said:


> But at least it's full. Problem with some wrestling promotions is they rents out these huge arenas and it's a waste of money if no one is buying in, it isnt 2000 anymore, wrestling isn't big. They need to start thinking of bringing it down and stop trying to be something it wont be in this day and age.


people are acting like aew is renting out MSG every week, these places are not super expensive. The average arena is $20k to rent out. The most expensive place they had was DC and they filled it up. With the number of people they are getting, they are doing just fine even if they don't sell out. Have people never been to other live events? Do they think every single touring act sells out every venue like Taylor swift or that Korean boy band?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NWA Powerrr literally went from 550K views on episode one to south of 200K views for the most recent episode. That shit obviously isn't connecting.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Not sure why this is becoming "Dynamite vs. Powerrr" but since I'm watching (and very much enjoying) both I suppose I'll give my thoughts.

At the end of the day, Powerrr is much smaller scale show than Dynamite. It's not designed to be a bigger/more popular show and it's not. It's a YouTube show vs. a cable television show. Both shows have lost a lot of viewers from their initial episodes. You can make an argument that neither show is "connecting" based off viewership numbers. You'd have a point on both. Dynamite particularly has been consistently going down every single week besides the week this week, where they only increased because the week prior was against a World Series game. However it's still down a bit from two weeks prior and thus, viewers are still bleeding. 

Powerrr took a BIG loss between 1st and 2nd episodes, but episode 4 was slightly up from episode 3. Episode 5 is only 4 days out, so it could still get to that 200k mark potentially. We'll see. It seems like it's stopped any major bleeding. Of course, it is different since these are YouTube videos at this point and can be replayed by people. It'd be better if we knew the exact averages they did when they were live. I know both episode 4 and 5 peaked around the same since I watched both live (I think it was around 10K) but not sure how overall the episodes compared. One thing to note though is viewership of episode 5 I remember increasing throughout (it started at about 7k I think). 

Dynamite is the show you watch if you want a modern weekly television product that focuses primarily on the in-ring action. It does it and does it well, although it does make the PPV matches feel a bit weaker when they blow their load on the weekly television product. I think that's a big part of the reason a lot of people have been criticizing the undercard of Full Gear. You give people non-stop matches that are PPV quality every week, it doesn't make the PPV's worth paying for unless there's a big match on them. That said, for those that want that type of show weekly, you're getting it and on a pretty big scale. They do it well, but it does limit it's growth potential if that's what they stick to (more on that later).

Powerrr was a much more rounded show than Dynamite for the first few weeks. The difference is a one hour show vs. a two hour show. Powerr's matches are never going to go as long as Dynamite's unless it's a two match show. Therefore to those that care more for in-ring work, this really isn't the show for you. A lot of matches are quick, there isn't a lot of craziness in the matches and usually only the main event of the shows really has a chance to compete with any matches that Dynamite puts on. I think when they do their first PPV (in December?) it'll be the most "AEW" type show they'll produce. I imagine it'll be match after match after match for however long the show is, and will be very telling to see how much in ring talent there is. If they can knock it out of the park, I think there's a ton of potential for growth (not necessarily to the level of something like AEW, but it could attract more attention/views if it shows it can put on a good pure wrestling PPV). If most of the matches are subpar/bad then I think Powerrr will ultimately stay around 200k views for videos, and only continue going down until it's inevitably cancelled. 

I think another main thing working against Powerrr is it's presentation/look. It's a great throwback, but it's not going to attract many new fans. People are going to take one look at it, think it's a show from the 70's, and tune out. I personally love that it looks and feels different from WWE and AEW, but it does hurt it's growth potential. And I'll say while I do like the look, if they modernized it but kept the structure of the shows themselves (promo, match, promo, match, etc.) then I'd still be very happy with it.


This all said, Dynamite the last couple of weeks has taken steps in the right direction. They've toned down the matches and have introduced more promos and video packages. They still have to tie it all together, but I've been very happy with the last couple of shows. When it does this, I think it's easily better than Powerrr.

This coming week they need to get back in that 900,000-1,000,000 viewers range. Over a million I think would be a big success. They've produced quality balanced episodes the last couple of weeks, and had a PPV with a big heel turn and a crazy unsanctioned match that should have people buzzing. If they don't, that could be a problem if they don't have someone on the level of CM Punk, or even a Jon Moxley, to come in and spike interest for a week or two (which would give them time to put on the best shows possible). Worse is if they drop back down to 700k, I think they'd be in pretty bad shape (what with their next PPV probably not for 2-3 months).


----------



## RiverFenix

I wanted AEW to do their own Saturday Morning studio show for the nostalgia feels. No storylines, just mid card over low card and low card over jobber matches while maybe recapping Dynamite in a one hour format.


----------



## rbl85

So for the tickets sales for the next shows :

Next week in Nashville :
- 5466 tickets were put in sale
- 4101 tickets sold (582 on StubHub)
- Attendance for the moment of 3519

2 weeks in Indianapolis :
- 4464 tickets put in sale
- 4063 tickets sold (499 on StubHub)
- Attendance for the moment of 3564

3 weeks in Chicago : Can't see the seats on Ticketmaster but it looks like it's selling well.

4 weeks in Champaign : Only 2 tickets available on Ticketmaster and 27 on Stubhub.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

^I always thought they would've struggled to draw 2500 on a weekly basis, so from my view point they continue to over deliver. 

I'll continue to point to some of the TNA PPV's with some of the bigger names in the business, Hogan, Angle, AJ, Sting, Flair, Hardy etc. etc. only draw 3000-4500, and AEW doing that for a weekly show with exponentially less star power is impressive.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am curious to see if there is a ppv bump. Part of the reason RAW gets one is that they're on just a day later, so the "excitement" is fresh. Dynamite will air 4 days later. Will the ppv afterglow last that long or will it be old news by then? All I do know is that the rating needs to avoid going down again.


----------



## jordyjames26

Anyone know the buy rate?

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> I am curious to see if there is a ppv bump. Part of the reason RAW gets one is that they're on just a day later, so the "excitement" is fresh. Dynamite will air 4 days later. Will the ppv afterglow last that long or will it be old news by then? All I do know is that the rating needs to avoid going down again.


Could probably look back to when Smackdown was on Thursdays/Fridays and see if they received any PPV bumps, for some comparison.

I think though even if not a pure PPV bump (just a bump off the fact it's coming off a PPV and nothing more) there should be enough there to give them a bump with MJF heel turn on (arguably) the most over face in the company, and just whatever the aftermath is of that Moxley/Omega match. If they don't see a decent increase off of that, that's a problem.


----------



## Taroostyles

It will be interesting is this will now be their 1st full PPV build that occurs entirely on TV. They stayed the build for Full Gear on TV month after All Out. 

Their focuses over the next few weeks should be:

-Furthering Elite/Inner Circle angle 
-MJF explanation and character expansion
-Get the women on track. More Shida, Big Swole, Shanna, and Hayter please
-Midcard title plans. They really need one. 
-Guys like Darby, Janela, Spears, and Havoc getting more TV time 

That's where I would start


----------



## rbl85

I can see Hayter join the Inner Circle.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> I can see Hayter join the Inner Circle.


I think Penelope Ford would've been awesome in that position, unfortunately, she is being paired with a charisma vacuum in Kip Sabian.


----------



## iarwain

volde said:


> Aren't they getting something like 50mil for NXT? Why would Vince ignore it even if AEW wasn't around?


He would be content to let Triple H run it as a separate entity without getting involved. Such as pushing it to network television, giving them exposure on the main roster, sending main roster talents to Wednesday nights, etc.

NXT was a nice incentive for people to buy the WWE Network, Vince would have been happy to leave it at that. Now he's turned it into a weapon.


----------



## RiverFenix

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I think Penelope Ford would've been awesome in that position, unfortunately, she is being paired with a charisma vacuum in Kip Sabian.


That's sort of the point with managers though isn't it? 

Regarding a woman for The Inner Circle, Jericho alluded to the possibility but said it would have to be an organic fit. Ie somebody who they naturally get along with and would accept their part and role. I don't think Jericho would be looking for a eye candy valet type but more a "Chyna" type, a woman who could just take care of business when necessary - ie Mama Rhodes wouldn't have been so froggy last night if there was a woman there ready and willing to punch her in her mouth. Or similarly not take a back step from Awesome Kong if Brandi gets involved with Cody's dealings with Inner Circle. 

I think a Mercedes Martinez would be a better fit than any of the young'uns like Hayter, Gibbs or Monroe. Ivelisse is seemingly too hard to get along with.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> That's sort of the point with managers though isn't it?


No, that's not. The point of a manager is to add the talking element, but the performer still has to have a nautural charisma to them.

Anyone that says Brock Lesnar doesn't have charisma for example is clueless, he isn't a talker, and that's where Paul Heyman comes in.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> So for the tickets sales for the next shows :
> 
> Next week in Nashville :
> - 5466 tickets were put in sale
> - 4101 tickets sold (582 on StubHub)
> - Attendance for the moment of 3519
> 
> 2 weeks in Indianapolis :
> - 4464 tickets put in sale
> - 4063 tickets sold (499 on StubHub)
> - Attendance for the moment of 3564
> 
> 3 weeks in Chicago : Can't see the seats on Ticketmaster but it looks like it's selling well.
> 
> 4 weeks in Champaign : Only 2 tickets available on Ticketmaster and 27 on Stubhub.


Chicago is at the Sears center they don't sell tickets on Ticketmaster but thier own site. Anything on tm is resale tickets. Same with Champaign.


----------



## Corey

Taroostyles said:


> -Midcard title plans. They really need one.
> -Guys like Darby, Janela, Spears, and Havoc getting more TV time


When I spoke to Darby today I said "they couldn't squeeze you onto the card last night man?" and he replied with "nah we've got some big plans in the works and we didn't wanna ya know... overdo it tonight"

He's been pretty much MIA since losing to Jericho. Thinking he might be our first TV Champion...


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

YouTube views is kind of a useless barometer for a show that's concentrated on TV, but nonetheless, I find it pretty incredible that the closing angle from Dynamite has more views than everything from RAW last week outside of Lesnar killing Dio Madden, more views than Rollins/Cole and the Triple H/Rollins promo segment. At this point, that video has more views than everything from Smackdown too, although that's not a fair comparison considering the SD clips have been up for 2 days less.

Moxley/Omega as a whole has been a huge hit on YT, what that actually means, I don't know, but the feud certainty resonated with people.










Before people contribute it all to Moxley, yes, he's a big part of it, but Moxley's in ring promo by himself only has 800k views, so his stuff with Omega certainly propelled views.


----------



## Corey

PAC vs. Page III and SCU vs. Jericho & Guevara for the Tag Team Titles announced for this week's Dynamite. Love it!


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Any word on the buyrate?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Undertaker23RKO said:


> Any word on the buyrate?


We won't have early estimates for a few days, google trends is look good, it's trending above All Out, we'll see what the final buy rate is.

We'll see how it ultimately turns out, many are of the mindset that getting on TV would increase their buyrate, but you could also make the argument that over saturation of the product, and going weekly will make people less inclined to buy the show. We saw when the UFC started doing a lot more shows, their PPV buy rates on a consistent basis went down, but the shows that were seen as big shows still did great buyrates.

The real question is did the general AEW fan see Full Gear as a big show, or a skippable show, I think the build was great, and if UFC PPVs have thought us anything, the undercard means fuck all for a buyrate, and it is completely contingent how they build the main event(and in rare instances, the match second from the top). They did an excellent job building Cody/Jericho, I don't think anyone can really deny that.


----------



## Corey

Full Gear was so good that I'm considering buying the fucking replay and having a rewatch party. :lol


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> We won't have early estimates for a few days, google trends is look good, it's trending above All Out, we'll see what the final buy rate is.



I found something interesting about the google trends.

When it's a PPV most people don't use the name of the PPV to make their research, a lot only use "AEW".


----------



## looper007

Corey said:


> Full Gear was so good that I'm considering buying the fucking replay and having a rewatch party. :lol


I wonder if they start releasing these PPV's on Blu ray/DVD like WWE do. I'd buy them. What would it be, 4 a year. Throw a few vignettes of the build up to the feuds, maybe some Dynamite matches involving the talent on the cards as extras.


----------



## The Wood

looper007 said:


> I wonder if they start releasing these PPV's on Blu ray/DVD like WWE do. I'd buy them. What would it be, 4 a year. Throw a few vignettes of the build up to the feuds, maybe some Dynamite matches involving the talent on the cards as extras.


That would be four they sold. Do you think that's worth it from a business perspective?


----------



## Pablo Escobar

The Wood said:


> That would be four they sold. Do you think that's worth it from a business perspective?


Considering they sell every other piece of merchandise under the sun... I don't see why not. Supposedly AEW is a big company with big pockets, so i think the production cost of like 1$ to sell a 20$ DVD/Blu Ray is worth it. There is some piece of the wrestling fanbase that still collect DVDs/Blu Rays. They already designed art/posters for these events. Not to mention, store space at Wal-Mart / Target/ etc. Some fans may have never heard of AEW but see it at the store, and you have a new fan for life. Seems like a no brainer at this point. 

Long term, i'm sure they'll want/need a streaming service like WWE Network/ ROH's HOnor Club, but don't have the content yet. So in the mean time, DVD/ Blu Ray seems like the way to go.


----------



## Chan Hung

Corey said:


> Full Gear was so good that I'm considering buying the fucking replay and having a rewatch party. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />


Huh? If u bought from BR Live it's in your account and you dont need to buy a replay


----------



## RiverFenix

Chan Hung said:


> Huh? If u bought from BR Live it's in your account and you dont need to buy a replay


He went to the show.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

Corey said:


> Full Gear was so good that I'm considering buying the fucking replay and having a rewatch party. :lol


That's why you buy a stream on BR Live, unlimited free replays.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> We won't have early estimates for a few days, google trends is look good, it's trending above All Out, we'll see what the final buy rate is.
> 
> We'll see how it ultimately turns out, many are of the mindset that getting on TV would increase their buyrate, but you could also make the argument that over saturation of the product, and going weekly will make people less inclined to buy the show. We saw when the UFC started doing a lot more shows, their PPV buy rates on a consistent basis went down, but the shows that were seen as big shows still did great buyrates.
> 
> The real question is did the general AEW fan see Full Gear as a big show, or a skippable show, I think the build was great, and if UFC PPVs have thought us anything, the undercard means fuck all for a buyrate, and it is completely contingent how they build the main event(and in rare instances, the match second from the top). They did an excellent job building Cody/Jericho, I don't think anyone can really deny that.


You might wanna check again. Full Gear on Nov 9 is trending significantly lower than All Out did on August 31.

I think the PPV buys will be lower than All Out, which is exactly what I predicted for this filler PPV.

Hopefully they make the next one actually matter.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> You might wanna check again. Full Gear on Nov 9 is trending significantly lower than All Out did on August 31.
> 
> I think the PPV buys will be lower than All Out, which is exactly what I predicted for this filler PPV.
> 
> Hopefully they make the next one actually matter.


Carefull because because if you only type "All Out" your going to also have the google search about the anime "all out" (about rugby)


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> Carefull because because if you only type "All Out" your going to also have the google search about the anime "all out" (about rugby)


I compared "AEW Full Gear" vs "AEW All Out."


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/%5Burl%5Dhttps%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FAEWrestling%2Fstatus%2F1193937079123750914%5B%2Furl%5D
Miami on the 15th. Makes sense since Jericho's Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea cruise leaves Miami on January 20th and AEW is very likely going to air live from the cruise on Wednesday the 22nd.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Why do I have a feeling that Chris Daniels is going to challenge Jericho for the title this Wednesday


----------



## umagamanc

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Why do I have a feeling that Chris Daniels is going to challenge Jericho for the title this Wednesday


He won't. It's already been announced that Jericho and Sammy Guevara will be challenging SCU for the tag team championships. However, I could see him having a television match for the AEW World Championship in the next few weeks.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> So for the tickets sales for the next shows :
> 
> Next week in Nashville :
> - 5466 tickets were put in sale
> - 4101 tickets sold (582 on StubHub)
> - Attendance for the moment of 3519
> 
> 2 weeks in Indianapolis :
> - 4464 tickets put in sale
> - 4063 tickets sold (499 on StubHub)
> - Attendance for the moment of 3564
> 
> 3 weeks in Chicago : Can't see the seats on Ticketmaster but it looks like it's selling well.
> 
> 4 weeks in Champaign : Only 2 tickets available on Ticketmaster and 27 on Stubhub.


They haven't come close to selling 4000 tickets on either show.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Very interesting. Google Trends now has Full Gear above All Out when you factor in November 10. Full Gear's peak is 9% higher. We'll see how this translates to PPV buys, but things look good.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Very interesting. Google Trends now has Full Gear above All Out when you factor in November 10. Full Gear's peak is 9% higher. We'll see how this translates to PPV buys, but things look good.


I know it doesn't really mean something but in my country (France) Full Gear was trending on twitter with more than 100K tweet which is really big for a country like France for a wrestling show (the show ended at 6am)


----------



## V-Trigger

NathanMayberry said:


> They haven't come close to selling 4000 tickets on either show.


Walk out is a thing. Full geat got like 1000 tickets sold the day of the event. Go and push your narrative elsewhere.


----------



## rbl85

NathanMayberry said:


> They haven't come close to selling 4000 tickets on either show.


They sold 4229 tickets for tomorrow and 4075 tickets for next Week.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> I know it doesn't really mean something but in my country (France) Full Gear was trending on twitter with more than 100K tweet which is really big for a country like France for a wrestling show (the show ended at 6am)


They were trending #1 worldwide, too. Even Moxley was trending #5 worldwide at one point.

Twitter stats don't mean as much as Google searches, though. The real news here is the strong Google search numbers.

I thought we'd see the buys go under 100K, but now I'm not so sure. Looks like it might at least maintain.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> They were trending #1 worldwide, too. Even Moxley was trending #5 worldwide at one point.
> 
> Twitter stats don't mean as much as Google searches, though. The real news here is the strong Google search numbers.
> 
> I thought we'd see the buys go under 100K, but now I'm not so sure. Looks like it might at least maintain.


That's why i wrote "it doesn't really mean something"


----------



## AEWMoxley

From what I gather, in the US, Full Gear did similar Google search numbers to Warriors vs Kentucky and Warriors vs Thunder, albeit slightly lower. That's pretty good, as those did over 200K searches.


----------



## Corey

AEW has quite literally done SO much right that I wanna support this product in literally any way that I possibly can. They need to figure out even more ways I can give them my money. Double or Nothing and All Out needs to be released on DVD/Blu Ray and they need to get way more merchandise in the arenas to purchase. They're doing fantastic this far but they're missing out on profits.

If/when they come back to DC and/or Baltimore I'll be getting tickets in a heartbeat. Hopefully down the road they go somewhere else close but different like Hershey, Richmond, Hampton, etc.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Looks like the PPV did well, anything below 100k would be a colossal disappointment.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Looks like the PPV did well, anything below 100k would be a colossal disappointment.


It should be somewhere between All Out and DON. Perhaps the "controversy" of the hardcore match will push it higher than DON with replay buys.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I will stick with my prediction of 155k. Cody/Jericho sold a lot of PPVs. I watched with a group of 5 and all they talked about was the Cody promo.


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> I will stick with my prediction of 155k. Cody/Jericho sold a lot of PPVs. I watched with a group of 5 and all they talked about was the Cody promo.


1. Not a chance it does anywhere close to 155K

2. Cody/Jericho match generated very little buzz, and neither were trending top 5 worldwide like Moxley did. Moxley was also the most searched guy on the day of, and ever since the conclusion of the show, by a wide margin, followed by Jericho, Omega, and Cody in last place between the four.


----------



## RapShepard

95k-103k


----------



## The Wood

I’m going to predict 70,450 domestic, which would be about 95k international exclusive.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Whatever the number is I think it'll be a good one.


----------



## Saintpat

When will the numbers start to come out?


----------



## rbl85

So for the tickets sale, i don't know what Ticketmaster is doing but i'm lost.

Some sections who were nearly empty became full and section who were full became empty and it keeps changing. 50 seats dissappear in one section and 50 seats appears in an other...i don't understand what they're doing.

Can someone who understand how TM work explain me ? Thanks


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

Saintpat said:


> When will the numbers start to come out?


Observer comes out tomorrow so probably then.


----------



## RiverFenix

I hope it's over 100K. I have a bad feeling though. Wrestling fans are not going to pay $50 for PPV's anymore.

Also Punk's return on FS1 last night probably means folks will turn into NXT tonight to see if he shows up there now. You can bet NXT will lead off with a video package of it. So if AEW was hoping for any Full Gear bump - probably not happening. I could see NXT beating AEW this week.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I hope it's over 100K. I have a bad feeling though. Wrestling fans are not going to pay $50 for PPV's anymore.
> 
> *Also Punk's return on FS1 last night probably means folks will turn into NXT tonight to see if he shows up there now.* You can bet NXT will lead off with a video package of it. So if AEW was hoping for any Full Gear bump - probably not happening. I could see NXT beating AEW this week.


I don't think it's going to change anything.


----------



## RiverFenix

Merch seems to be getting better - 











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194045139972440070


----------



## rbl85

Those shirts are have been available for a long time.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> I don't think it's going to change anything.


LOL. Tonight:

NXT 1.1 million
AEW 750k

Which just sucks. But folks are going to tune in thinking Punk will be there just like the 400k extra viewers that thought he would be at the 10/2 Dynamite and never came back when he wasnt.


----------



## NascarStan

TKO Wrestling said:


> LOL. Tonight:
> 
> NXT 1.1 million
> AEW 750k
> 
> Which just sucks. But folks are going to tune in thinking Punk will be there just like the 400k extra viewers that thought he would be at the 10/2 Dynamite and never came back when he wasnt.


Even the dumbest wrestling fan knows there is a zero percent chance he is showing up on a random nxt show infront of 400 geeks at Full Sail. Plus when AEW loses viewers the numbers show they are switching to nxt

I'll go 915k for AEW and 840k for nxt


----------



## Taroostyles

So NXT is gonna all of a sudden crush Dynamite after 6 straight losses cause Punk showed up on the FS1 show? 

I seriously doubt that.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Taroostyles said:


> So NXT is gonna all of a sudden crush Dynamite after 6 straight losses cause Punk showed up on the FS1 show?
> 
> I seriously doubt that.


Every damn WWE fan in the world right now is thinking he will show up tonight as a giant FU to Cody Rhodes for texting him their offer. 

Around 400k tuned in for the first Dynamite to see if Punk was going to show.

He is BY FAR AND AWAY the biggest FA that was ever going to be available. Reigns will never become available. Cena is done. Lesnar will never leave. All the Bray Wyatts/Seth Rollins of the world will never be as big as Punk.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> *Every damn WWE fan in the world right now is thinking he will show up tonight as a giant FU to Cody Rhodes for texting him their offer.
> *
> Around 400k tuned in for the first Dynamite to see if Punk was going to show.
> 
> He is BY FAR AND AWAY the biggest FA that was ever going to be available. Reigns will never become available. Cena is done. Lesnar will never leave. All the Bray Wyatts/Seth Rollins of the world will never be as big as Punk.


Then show us that every WWE fan thinks that ?

You're just a butthurt because AEW didn't signed Punk, stupid.


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> Around 400k tuned in for the first Dynamite to see if Punk was going to show.


I'm going to have to disagree with this. The Punk to AEW thing died down prior to All Out. Meltzer put an end to those rumors. Sure, you had a bunch of people on this forum who couldn't stop posting about it being a work and that he was going to show up at All Out and Dynamite, but the vast majority of people outside of this forum knew he wasn't going to. There was no bump to All Out's buys because of this.

1.4 million people tuned into the first episode out of curiosity, and a lot of them tuned out because AEW gave them nothing but fake fights with no story or promos for the first 4 weeks. That, and the majority of their roster sucks.


----------



## Bosnian21

I remember Meltzer tweeting several weeks before All Out that Punk isn’t with AEW and a bunch of people didn’t believe him.


----------



## rbl85

IF NXT beat AEW, it will not happen because of Punk on FS1.


----------



## rbl85

Bosnian21 said:


> I remember Meltzer tweeting several weeks before All Out that Punk isn’t with AEW and a bunch of people didn’t believe him.


Even Cody wrote a tweet 2 months ago saying that Punk will no be in AEW and that he think he will go back to WWE.


----------



## kingfrass44

TKO Wrestling said:


> Every damn WWE fan in the world right now is thinking he will show up tonight as a giant FU to Cody Rhodes for texting him their offer.
> 
> Around 400k tuned in for the first Dynamite to see if Punk was going to show.
> 
> He is BY FAR AND AWAY the biggest FA that was ever going to be available. Reigns will never become available. Cena is done. Lesnar will never leave. All the Bray Wyatts/Seth Rollins of the world will never be as big as Punk.


Punk He didn't do any Ratings wwe High And Also will not Do any Ratings aew High


----------



## iarwain

rbl85 said:


> IF NXT beat AEW, it will not happen because of Punk on FS1.


I'm not so sure. Having Punk even indirectly involved with the WWE product probably puts more eyes on the WWE.


----------



## rbl85

iarwain said:


> I'm not so sure. Having Punk even indirectly involved with the WWE product probably puts more eyes on the WWE.


Nobody who's right in his head would think "Oh Punk appeared on FS1 last night in a show that nobody Watch, that surely means he's going to appear on NXT" come on...if he ever appear at a wrestling show it will be for RAW or SD.

Now SD or RAW wrestlers are probably going to appear on NXT. (even if the European tour is not over)


----------



## rbl85

For those interested there should be more or less 4.2k people in the arena.


----------



## NascarStan

rbl85 said:


> For those interested there should be more or less 4.2k people in the arena.


Wonder how the walk up ticket sales do with the CMA's happening right down the street, maybe a few extra stragglers with all the activity on the street will boost the number slighty


----------



## rbl85

AverageJoe9 said:


> Wonder how the walk up ticket sales do with the CMA's happening right down the street, maybe a few extra stragglers with all the activity on the street will boost the number slighty


Well it's already better than Charlotte.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> For those interested there should be more or less 4.2k people in the arena.


I wish they would have booked Allen Arena, capacity of around 5k. That place would look AMAZING on TV with a 4200 person crowd. No tarps needed.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Well it's already better than Charlotte.


How many were in Charlotte?


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Merch seems to be getting better -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1194045139972440070


Now see those are MUCH better shirts. I'd actually wear those out in public as opposed to that other company with that terrible ass shirts and other dumb shit they got.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> How many were in Charlotte?


3.4 or something.

You could thinks that they were more than that, great crowd.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> 3.4 or something.
> 
> You could thinks that they were more than that, great crowd.


They were the best one yet. Crazy. I really hope they drop down to the small DI/large high school, 2500-5000 arenas soon. They booked a small one like that in Dallas (Garland) for the 11th, I am excited to go watch it.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> They were the best one yet. Crazy. I really hope they drop down to the small DI/large high school, 2500-5000 arenas soon. They booked a small one like that in Dallas (Garland) for the 11th, I am excited to go watch it.


I think the one you're talking about is set for 7000-8000 seats.

It's selling well by the way.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> 3.4 or something.
> 
> You could thinks that they were more than that, great crowd.


3,600. Only Fyter Fest was only other show to sell less then 5,000 tickets. Fyter Fest had over 5,000 in attendance. But I think paid tickets were only like 4,500


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Lots of great arenas out there that are 2500-5000. I hope AEW switches quick. Packed houses are the best.


----------



## rbl85

Now it's a bit more than 4.3K for tonight show


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I hope I'm wrong but, concerning AEW'S win streak over nxt, tonight :


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> I hope I'm wrong but, concerning AEW'S win streak over nxt, tonight :


So what if it is. There'll be a fuckload of I-told-you-so's, a fuckload more excuses (all the morons expecting Punk to show up on NXT will be at the top of the list), and another fuckload of 'they need more promos'. 

Nobody's opinions on the numbers here mean squat; the only ones who have to be kept happy are the TNT execs in Atlanta, and the total impact on that or AEW's business plan from anybody in here is exactly diddly-shit. 

Just enjoy the show and fuck the numbers.


----------



## The Principal

TKO Wrestling said:


> I wish they would have booked Allen Arena, capacity of around 5k. That place would look AMAZING on TV with a 4200 person crowd. No tarps needed.


Agreed - Allen Arena would have been a very nice fit for an AEW show.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The Principal said:


> Agreed - Allen Arena would have been a very nice fit for an AEW show.


There are so many badass venues like that. WCW and WWF have ignored them and TNA wouldn't pay to travel.

AEW appears to want to travel weekly so I am hoping to see them. I would love for them to book Tulanes Devlin Fieldhouse when they go to New Orleans, 4000 seats, gorgeous.


----------



## The Wood

Reggie Dunlop said:


> So what if it is. There'll be a fuckload of I-told-you-so's, a fuckload more excuses (all the morons expecting Punk to show up on NXT will be at the top of the list), and another fuckload of 'they need more promos'.
> 
> Nobody's opinions on the numbers here mean squat; the only ones who have to be kept happy are the TNT execs in Atlanta, and the total impact on that or AEW's business plan from anybody in here is exactly diddly-shit.
> 
> Just enjoy the show and fuck the numbers.


Unless you're someone who cares about the numbers. Then don't be afraid to not do what Reggie Dunlop tells you.


----------



## Stylebender

Any numbers in on full gear yet?


----------



## rbl85

Stylebender said:


> Any numbers in on full gear yet?


Nope


----------



## NascarStan

While we're on the topic on venues for AEW the Walter Pyramid in Long Beach would be a good place. Has a unique look and when NJPW ran the place it looked good on tv


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I checked it out on YouTube, you’re correct, Walter Pyramid is ideal size.


----------



## Corey

Tonight's episode really deserves to push them back over the 1.0 mark. Fingers crossed!


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW opened with Jon Moxley, and NXT opened with fucking Lio Rush and Angel Garza, at the very least AEW must have won that quarter.


----------



## iarwain

rbl85 said:


> Nobody who's right in his head would think "Oh Punk appeared on FS1 last night in a show that nobody Watch, that surely means he's going to appear on NXT"


I agree with that, but I never said people would think Punk would be on NXT. He works for Fox. What I said was that having Punk even indirectly involved with WWE probably puts more eyes on the product. As in it raises awareness.

People might hear that Punk is Backstage, and that might get them thinking "Hey, I haven't watched wrestling for awhile. I'll check it out. And Punk might be gearing up for a comeback, that would be interesting". I wouldn't expect it to make any huge difference in the ratings, but it might move the needle a bit. Unfortunately people returning to watch the shows will likely be disappointed, because right now the product is very weak.

I agree that if Punk returned, he'd likely be on Raw or Smackdown. I could see McMahon putting him on NXT just to stick it to AEW though.

I do see Punk on Backstage as selling out to some extent, IF he plans on returning to wrestling, and IF he isn't critical of the WWE shows on a weekly basis.


----------



## rbl85

Guys where do you get the ratings numbers before it appear on showbuzz ?

Edit : Oh i don't know if it have any importance for the weekly shows but AEW obliterated NXT on the google trends last night.


----------



## A PG Attitude

What time are the ratings announced usually?


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> What time are the ratings announced usually?


In a bit less than 2 hours


----------



## A-C-P

Corey said:


> Tonight's episode really deserves to push them back over the 1.0 mark. Fingers crossed!


It does but you don't usually see the real affect of a really good show until the next week's initial rating.


----------



## rbl85

A-C-P said:


> It does but you don't usually see the real affect of a really good show until the next week's initial rating.


Or like a lot of shows, the ratings can be stuck at 800-900k for a couple of months and increase out of nowhere.


----------



## A-C-P

rbl85 said:


> Or like a lot of shows, the ratings can be stuck at 800-900k for a couple of months and increase out of nowhere.


This can also happen


----------



## jordyjames26

911,000 my guess

Sent from my SM-J810Y using Tapatalk


----------



## PavelGaborik

I'd be happy with any increase in viewers. 850k-900k would be nice.


----------



## looper007

PavelGaborik said:


> I'd be happy with any increase in viewers. 850k-900k would be nice.


Same. Anything that's a move up rather then down is a success.


----------



## Soul Rex

The debut of WardGOAT will increase the ratings to 900k +

You read it here first.


----------



## A PG Attitude

I'm gonna go with 989000


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

650k.


----------



## RiverFenix

The Inbred Goatman said:


> 650k.


Prediction or is that the number. If that is the number AEW should start to panic.


----------



## Jonhern

Wednesday Ratings: AEW .43 957k/ NXT .25 750k


----------



## ClintDagger

I think they could eek out a million thanks to the post PPV bump effect.


----------



## Claro De Luna

Jonhern said:


> Wednesday Ratings: AEW .43 957k/ NXT .25 750k


Excellent news. On the up.


----------



## MoxleyMoxx

AEW .43 / NXT .25

AEW 957,000 / NXT 750,000


----------



## TripleG

Upward tick is a good thing.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Creeping up back towards 1 mil. NXT back in the dust.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Hell Yeah! Great rating.


----------



## AEWMoxley

As they've gone with more promos and non-wrestling segments, their viewership has started to increase back up towards 1 million. No surprise. The fallout from the hardcore match, which generated a ton of controversy/buzz helped, too.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

7/7 :fuckyeah :dance

Quality wins out! :mark


----------



## EmbassyForever

ohhhhh shit motherfucka. that's pretty great.


----------



## Death Rider

Can people stop panicking now and being dumbasses :heston?


----------



## NascarStan

957k is a great boost from last week and with the quality of the show they can hopefully get back around one million next week

Also nxt going down really shows how much in one week wwe killed any interest in the nxt invasion storyline


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

OC was the biggest draw in NXT. :heston


----------



## A PG Attitude

Great news. The important thing is the downward trend has stopped and it's back on the increase. If the show continues to be as entertaining as it is it should be comfortably over a million by Christmas


----------



## Jonhern

AEW 957k +16% from last week
NXT 750K -8% from last week

VS Last week in demo
AEW +23% 
NXT -16%

back around what they were doing before the world series.


----------



## ClintDagger

Pacing of the show was so much better. Kudos to AEW for not being stubborn and tweaking the formula some.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

That's a great number. We still need to see how the rest of the month goes though. I said a while back we need to get at least a few weeks past their first PPV to get a gauge.


----------



## TripleG

The NXT Invasion angle feels like something that won't carry past Survivor Series and trying to build that and the War Games show at the same time makes it feel like they are stretching themselves a little thin.


----------



## looper007

Damn that's more then I was expecting to be honest. Well Done AEW.


----------



## looper007

TripleG said:


> The NXT Invasion angle feels like something that won't carry past Survivor Series and trying to build that and the War Games show at the same time makes it feel like they are stretching themselves a little thin.


Said it once the Survivor Series is over with NXT would go back down. I fully expect it too, last week was the height of it as people were expecting a invasion. AEW knock it out of the park this week. It was a old school wrestling show.


----------



## Jonhern

TripleG said:


> The NXT Invasion angle feels like something that won't carry past Survivor Series and trying to build that and the War Games show at the same time makes it feel like they are stretching themselves a little thin.


I haven't been watching any wwe to be honest, but reading what is going on it kind of does not make sense, why is the UE going to SDL to invade with other NXT guys then fighting them on Wednesday and going into a blood feud match? kind of kills the heat for their big match.


----------



## Soul Rex

Soul Rex said:


> The debut of WardGOAT will increase the ratings to 900k +
> 
> You read it here first.


NUMBAS DONT LIE¡


----------



## AEWMoxley

They had a strong 2nd hour as well last night, so that bodes well for maintaining and possibly increasing their viewership next week.


----------



## Jonhern

Week 1: AEW had 518k more viewers

Week 2: AEW had 350k more viewers

Week 3: AEW had 302k more viewers

Week 4: AEW had 265k more viewers

Week 5: AEW had 179k more viewers

Week 6: AEW had 9k more viewers

Week 7: AEW had 207k more viewers

AEW had 67% of the demo RAW got this week. 83% of the 3rd-hour demo.


----------



## SPCDRI

We still don't have the numbers from showbuzzdaily. It might be a photoshop.

WE HAVE THE NUMBERS

ITS REAL


----------



## llj

Strong showing, trending up again. Good to see.


----------



## Jonhern

SPCDRI said:


> We still don't have the numbers from showbuzzdaily. It might be a photoshop.


here you go http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articl...able-originals-network-finals-11-13-2019.html


----------



## Best Bout Machine

7-0 :lenny

Good to see that the superior show continues to win every week.


----------



## HankHill_85

That's a great number. The quality of last night's show deserves it. It seemed to have everything from good action, a debuting wrestler, follow-up on MJF's heel turn and Cody's response, Moxley continuing to become a major player, Omega out for revenge, and Jericho ate his first pinfall loss.

I think NXT's lower numbers might be a combination of two things: one, this is now a show that has commercial breaks and that could turn people off from viewing it live. Two, now with this whole "cross promotion" stuff being done just to hype Survivor Series, it might be turning off the more hardcore NXT fans who aren't fans of the main roster shows.


----------



## looper007

I won't be surprised if it's nice and quiet around here for this week . No doom and gloom and that AEW is finished.


----------



## llj

HankHill_85 said:


> I think NXT's lower numbers might be a combination of two things: one, this is now a show that has commercial breaks and that could turn people off from viewing it live. Two, now with this whole "cross promotion" stuff being done just to hype Survivor Series, it might be turning off the more hardcore NXT fans who aren't fans of the main roster shows.


I don't think NXT's appearances on SD and RAW have helped or hurt them. 750k is probably around NXT's usual audience. It's just not a 900k-1m drawing show.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
0.957M [36th] [ + 0.135M | + 16.42% ]
0.430D [5th] [ + 0.080D | + 22.86% ]

AEW | NXT:
0.957M | 0.750M [ + 0.207M | + 27.60% ]
0.430D | 0.250D [ + 0.180D | + 72.00% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.707M [ + 0.072M | + 4.40% ]
0.680D [ + 0.030D | + 4.62% ]*


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

#5 in the demo for the night. :fuckyeah NXT was #22

Won every demo handily vs NXT except for the elderly one.


----------



## Soul Rex

looper007 said:


> I won't be surprised if it's nice and quiet around here for this week . No doom and gloom and that AEW is finished.


Nah fuck that shit.

Now we going to start spamming AEW DA NEXT BIG THING WWE WATCH YA ASS YO FAGG3TS 8.0 RATINGZ NEXT MONTH FUCK MARK HENRY stuff all over this thread.


----------



## Chrome

Great number for a great show. :clap

Let's see if they can hit a million again next week.


----------



## Maffchew

Oh look, turns out AEW isn't going out of business after all. The hysteria over the drop in ratings was pretty embarrassing.

Great number. I have a feeling the viewership will dip again and it will ultimately result in them running pay-per-views more frequently, perhaps once every two months. There has always been a correlation between PPVs and TV ratings, particularly pre-WWE Network.


----------



## Death Rider

Maffchew said:


> Oh look, turns out AEW isn't going out of business after all. The hysteria over the drop in ratings was pretty embarrassing.
> 
> Great number. I have a feeling the viewership will dip again and it will ultimately result in them running pay-per-views more frequently, perhaps once every two months. There has always been a correlation between PPVs and TV ratings, particularly pre-WWE Network.


If they do run more PPV's they need to be cheaper tbh. I mean the price is fine in the UK but $50 is a lot of money for Americans I can imagine


----------



## Derek30

Nice to see the bounce back. People were obviously intrigued by Full Gear and the fallout. Great balance on Dynamite this week with lots of good stuff. Hopefully they can hit the 1m mark next week


----------



## rbl85

Last week i saw a lot of tweets saying "this week i will watch NXT to see what they do after Smackdown and RAW".

The people who exceptionally watched NXT last week just came back to AEW this week.


----------



## Maffchew

Death Rider said:


> If they do run more PPV's they need to be cheaper tbh. I mean the price is fine in the UK but $50 is a lot of money for Americans I can imagine


Couldn't agree more, but I wonder how possible it is. Hard to really analyse without access to any of AEW's financials like we get with WWE. But definitely, the WWE Network has just completely changed the way people consume wrestling so $50 for an event just won't cut it.


----------



## Joe Moore

Death Rider said:


> If they do run more PPV's they need to be cheaper tbh. I mean the price is fine in the UK but $50 is a lot of money for Americans I can imagine



Normal price for a PPV in the US and Khan already confirmed the schedule for 2020, 4 PPVs and that's it. The PPV for Q1 will be announced soon.


----------



## Chan Hung

Closer to the 1 million, yes! :mark


----------



## SPCDRI

AEW won every under 50 demo, sometimes by a little bit more than DOUBLE.


----------



## Alright_Mate

A good bump after Full Gear.

Hopefully that's the number they can stay consistent with going forward, if they reach 1 million then even better.

Next few weeks are going to be interesting.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The numbers have rebounded to nearly those of Week 4. They had 963K and .45 demo then to 957K and a .43 demo this week. Positive sign after two weeks of slippage. :clap


----------



## llj

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> #5 in the demo for the night. :fuckyeah NXT was #22
> 
> Won every demo handily vs NXT except for the elderly one.



AEW with their hippin and their hoppin and their bippin and their boppin just don't know how to attract the elusive over 50 set! Damn shame.


----------



## TripleG

llj said:


> AEW with their hippin and their hoppin and their bippin and their boppin just don't know how to attract the elusive over 50 set! Damn shame.


Old folks don't like potty mouths.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

llj said:


> AEW with their hippin and their hoppin and their bippin and their boppin just don't know how to attract the elusive over 50 set! Damn shame.


Well, they got a few of us ... I'll have to get back on that MyFace and spread the word. :lol


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Nice one - good numbers

Would like to see them target the 3rd hour of RAW as a minimum benchmark

That’s possible

All in all, pretty good 

Hoping for a nice quiet thread


----------



## A-C-P

Death Rider said:


> If they do run more PPV's they need to be cheaper tbh. I mean the price is fine in the UK but $50 is a lot of money for Americans I can imagine


$50 is a high price for a PPV in the US, but if they are only quarterly shows its not a huge price.

I wouldn't mind the pricing so much if say they did what they did between DoN and All Out, and run 2 "free shows" in between, but make it so you have to buy the PPV to get the other shows, like a 3 for one thing.

I'm sure its a model they will tweak, or who knows maybe they will sell enough PPVs at $50 to not have to change anything :draper2


----------



## Intimidator3

I don’t follow numbers too much but nice to see them on the rise. Am I reading that chart right? Top 5 and only behind the NBA, South Park and AHS, that’s pretty good company, those are all big time programs.

You would think after such a great show the numbers might even go up again next week.


----------



## rbl85

Where are Woody and TKO ?


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Great numbers

South park ends in 4 weeks (not on next week). AHS is finished for the season. Both these factors will help the demos and total viewers, too, going forward


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Death Rider said:


> If they do run more PPV's they need to be cheaper tbh. I mean the price is fine in the UK but $50 is a lot of money for Americans I can imagine


Is it though? It's coming up with $50 through a 2-3 month period. Yes, I understand sometimes bills or unexpected expenses come up and that can be factor. Totally understand but its a problem the whole year? If you saved $20 every month for 3 months you would have more than enough. I live in the US. FYI.


----------



## Jupiter Jack Daniels

Noticeable absence from some thread regulars.


Internet must be disconnected.


----------



## AEW_19

rbl85 said:


> Where are Woody and TKO ?


Posted missing


----------



## rbl85

Still….that's a lot of people who watched NXT because of Punk.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

That ‘squeek’ ‘squeek’ ‘squeek’ ‘squeek’ sound you hear is the sound of trolls quietly trying to go fuck themselves

.... that is the only bit of gloating i’ll allow myself - and just because it was unbearable for 2 weeks here


----------



## Bubbly

Great news. Do we have a breakdown of who drew what in each segment yet? 

I feel like next week is huge for Darby Allin, ratings wise.


----------



## rbl85

Bubbly said:


> Great news. Do we have a breakdown of who drew what in each segment yet?
> 
> I feel like next week is huge for Darby Allin, ratings wise.


Not yet, i will post it when it appear on the observer.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Bubbly said:


> Great news. Do we have a breakdown of who drew what in each segment yet?
> 
> I feel like next week is huge for Darby Allin, ratings wise.


Allin lost viewers in a world title match against Chris Jericho. That's pretty bad. We'll see if Moxley can work a miracle with him and draw well. If there's anyone that can get people interested in a Darby Allin match, it's him. After all, he increased viewership for his match against Spears in week 2 (Spears lost a gazillion viewers last week.)

Segment breakdowns should be up tonight.


----------



## Taroostyles

Jupiter Jack Daniels said:


> Noticeable absence from some thread regulars.
> 
> 
> Internet must be disconnected.


Funny how that works.


----------



## Chan Hung

AEWMoxley said:


> Bubbly said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great news. Do we have a breakdown of who drew what in each segment yet?
> 
> I feel like next week is huge for Darby Allin, ratings wise.
> 
> 
> 
> Allin lost viewers in a world title match against Chris Jericho. That's pretty bad. We'll see if Moxley can work a miracle with him and draw well. If there's anyone that can get people interested in a Darby Allin match, it's him. After all, he increased viewership for his match against Spears in week 2 (who lost a gazillion viewers last week.)
> 
> Segment breakdowns should be up tonight.
Click to expand...

Are you sure about that loss? Or another talking point?


----------



## Derek30

The groundwork is being laid. The fact some people called the last couple of weeks a death knell tells me they don't know anything. AEW is still a baby and no one truly knows how things will look in a month or even a year.


----------



## Taroostyles

The usual suspects were in here saying NXT was gonna beat Dynamite cause of Punk showing up on Backstage, and it went much further the other way. 

Hope that crow tastes good.


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

Good - seems the bleeding has stopped. Hopefully they can stay around this or steadily increase from here.

Edit: Also, people were really tuning into (or thought people would tune into) NXT because Punk appeared on Backstage? That's silly - there was no chance of Punk appearing in NXT.


----------



## JustAName

I think it will still fluctuate a bit, but think/hope they will be quite steady on 900k + which imo is really good this early in the build up of a new promotion. They deserve all the success they can get. Anything above 1m steadily would be really amazing



LifeInCattleClass said:


> That ‘squeek’ ‘squeek’ ‘squeek’ ‘squeek’ sound you hear is the sound of trolls quietly trying to go fuck themselves
> 
> .... that is the only bit of gloating i’ll allow myself - and just because it was unbearable for 2 weeks here


I think you give them too much credit calling them trolls. Trolls know better but just bait people into meaningless arguments and stupidity and enjoy how they can rile people. There isn't enough brain activity among the normal suspects in here to combined be called a troll imo


----------



## RapShepard

That means folk must've been hella interested after the PPV. I wonder if the PPV numbers will be higher than normal then.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Honestly this is a very telltale sign that those lost viewers were due to lost interest but those lost viewers kept their eye on the product. 

This was basically me before the PPV. 

AEW just need to keep people interested.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

The best Wrestling Show wins AGAIN.

7/7

Suck it WWE :fuckyeah 

When the ratings rolled in --->> :Vince2


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

optikk sucks said:


> Honestly this is a very telltale sign that those lost viewers were due to lost interest but those lost viewers kept their eye on the product.
> 
> This was basically me before the PPV.
> 
> AEW just need to keep people interested.


Could be that, could also be more viewers starting to slowly gain interest. Good ppv, followed up by good solid weekly tv should not only keep them interested, but gradually attract more fans. Either way, the signs so far are very good.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

AEW's version of a post-PPV bump. Will probably be down next week, but this is still a great indicator that the audience is there. If they can get people invested, they can easily grow this audience a little more.

Also, the main event had a compelling angle. There's a lot to be said for having a headline match with some real stakes. Jericho's lameduck defense on TV didn't really matter, but the idea that Jericho could have two belts was a great high stakes main.

They've been pacing themselves with establishing their belts and storylines, which is the right call. Once things are established, you can mess things up, which is exactly what they're doing. Cody-MJF could be a great feud based on the fallout from Cody challenging Jericho, etc. Things are building. Not in bad shape at all.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Solid numbers after weeks of disappointment. Under a million but can't expect much more at this point.


----------



## Beatles123

Dark Emperor said:


> Solid numbers after weeks of disappointment. Under a million but can't expect much more at this point.


Yes you can. This is not the end of AEW and they will grow.


----------



## patpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> llj said:
> 
> 
> 
> AEW with their hippin and their hoppin and their bippin and their boppin just don't know how to attract the elusive over 50 set! Damn shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, they got a few of us ... I'll have to get back on that MyFace and spread the word. <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

 I think about you everyone those idiot kids start shitting on their elders :lol 
Shut up it's not about the age but the mindset. Jericho is 49 but he only hangs with young people because he has a progressive and modern mind when it comes to wrestling


----------



## sim8

When do we get full gear buy rate news?? Interested to see what the first PPV of the tv era gets


----------



## Mox Girl

llj said:


> AEW with their hippin and their hoppin and their bippin and their boppin just don't know how to attract the elusive over 50 set! Damn shame.


Lol nice Simpsons reference :lol “but we have three grandpas already!” haha.

I don’t follow ratings much but it’s good to see AEW on the rise. I wish FITE would give out how many people watch on their platform but they don’t, it’s a shame.


----------



## Jonhern

JonnyAceLaryngitis said:


> *W-W:
> 0.957M [36th] [ + 0.135M | + 16.42% ]
> 0.430D [5th] [ + 0.080D | + 22.86% ]
> 
> AEW | NXT:
> 0.957M | 0.750M [ + 0.207M | + 27.60% ]
> 0.430D | 0.250D [ + 0.180D | + 72.00% ]
> 
> W-W | AEW + NXT:
> 1.707M [ + 0.072M | + 4.40% ]
> 0.680D [ + 0.030D | + 4.62% ]*


More people in the 18-49 demo where watching last night between the two shows than watched the 3 hours of raw.


----------



## Taroostyles

If there is any justice after this show they should be back over 1m next week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

As long as they are putting up a good demo, whether they are near a million or slightly above it doesn't really matter.


----------



## SPCDRI

Dark Emperor said:


> Solid numbers after weeks of disappointment. Under a million but can't expect much more at this point.


We have no way of knowing that 800k and top 10 in 18-49 demo is disappointing for TNT. I'd have to imagine they are pleased.


----------



## birthday_massacre

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> As long as they are putting up a good demo, whether they are near a million or slightly above it doesn't really matter.


As long as AEW ratings are better than that was on Wednesday from 8-10 on TNT that is all that matters.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

birthday_massacre said:


> As long as AEW ratings are better than that was on Wednesday from 8-10 on TNT that is all that matters.


They have been top 5 in the demo for the night a few times so I imagine TNT would be very pleased with that number.


----------



## Jedah

Great rating and demo and they smashed NXT again. And they made the most of that fallout show, too.

Last night is the format they need to stick with. Make variations on that precise format.


----------



## Ace

That's an awesome number, this week I believe was the finale for AHS too.


----------



## Bubbly

sim8 said:


> When do we get full gear buy rate news?? Interested to see what the first PPV of the tv era gets


i'd like to know this also


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> Allin lost viewers in a world title match against Chris Jericho. That's pretty bad. We'll see if Moxley can work a miracle with him and draw well. If there's anyone that can get people interested in a Darby Allin match, it's him. After all, he increased viewership for his match against Spears in week 2 (Spears lost a gazillion viewers last week.)
> 
> Segment breakdowns should be up tonight.


Of course Darby Allin was going to lose ratings in World Title match. Nobody knew who he was and they had Cody/Jericho match already set. Nobody knew who he was or believed he would win. You can't be reactionary to ratings data. You gotta look at 3-6 month stretch of what's working and what's not.


----------



## AEWMoxley

imthegame19 said:


> Of course Darby Allin was going to lose ratings in World Title match. Nobody knew who he was and they had Cody/Jericho match already set. Nobody knew who he was or believed he would win. You can't be reactionary to ratings data. You gotta look at 3-6 month stretch of what's working and what's not.


He was in a #1 contender match the week before, and I'm pretty sure they had at least one video package for him on Dynamite. 

MJF has barely been used on TV until last night. I bet his segment did very well. Much better than any of Allin's.


----------



## SPCDRI

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> They have been top 5 in the demo for the night a few times so I imagine TNT would be very pleased with that number.


They've been top 10 with 18-49 every week so far. The lowest they went was 8.


----------



## Garty

I do believe that they will be back over 1 million next Wednesday. If the bump in the ratings this week was helped by the Omega/Moxley match (and it's internet chatter) coming out of Full Gear, then there is no reason to think that Allin vs. Moxley won't deliver next week.

Great to see them almost back to the 1 million mark though. Impressive. :clap


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

SPCDRI said:


> They've been top 10 with 18-49 every week so far. The lowest they went was 8.



AEW has been performing quite well in the demo. As a matter of fact when comparing AEW to NXT head-to-head, their lowest demo, a .33 in 18-49, was higher than NXT'S highest which was a .32. :fact


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So it went back up. Awesome. AEW is still thriving.


----------



## Buhalovski

Whats up with the other 400k from the first episode? Why they dont want to come back since the products been amazing so far?


----------



## Chrome

Another thing, Jericho's appearance on Inside the NBA may have helped too. That's the beauty of being on a network like TNT.


----------



## .christopher.

NXT have had stars from RAW and SmackDown on the recent episode, too, right?

This is impressive for AEW regardless of being under a million.


----------



## rbl85

Tsvetoslava said:


> Whats up with the other 400k from the first episode? Why they dont want to come back since the products been amazing so far?


Its the same thing that for the 1M+ that Smackdown lost since the first episode.

Some people watch the first episode because it's new. that happen for 99.99% of the shows.


----------



## Taroostyles

Tsvetoslava said:


> Whats up with the other 400k from the first episode? Why they dont want to come back since the products been amazing so far?


Oh so you mean like every other show practically in the history of television.


----------



## Jonhern

Tsvetoslava said:


> Whats up with the other 400k from the first episode? Why they dont want to come back since the products been amazing so far?


They could all not be watching, they could have been watching some episodes and not others. You really can't tell, not everyone last night has watched every episode and not everyone of those 400k have completely left.


----------



## Saintpat

rbl85 said:


> Some people watch the first episode because it's new. that happen for 99.99% of the shows.


That’s really not true. For the vast majority of shows, it takes weeks for them to gain any traction if they do at all.

Seinfeld did so poorly in its debut on NBC that it was offered to Fox because NBC didn’t want it — they changed their mind because one guy who happened to be in a position to do so liked it and diverted some money from a couple of specials to have four more episodes filmed to see if it could find an audience.

This isn’t a slam of AEW, but the trend is not ‘pilot episode always does great and then it drops off immediately’ — usually most people don’t see the pilot (first) episode but if it’s good it gets really good word-of-mouth and reviews and others check it out.


----------



## rbl85

Saintpat said:


> That’s really not true. For the vast majority of shows, it takes weeks for them to gain any traction if they do at all.
> 
> Seinfeld did so poorly in its debut on NBC that it was offered to Fox because NBC didn’t want it — they changed their mind because one guy who happened to be in a position to do so liked it and diverted some money from a couple of specials to have four more episodes filmed to see if it could find an audience.
> 
> This isn’t a slam of AEW, but the trend is not ‘pilot episode always does great and then it drops off immediately’ — usually most people don’t see the pilot (first) episode but if it’s good it gets really good word-of-mouth and reviews and others check it out.


When a show get the same amount of promotion that AEW had, most of the time the first episode get a big rating.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> He was in a #1 contender match the week before, and I'm pretty sure they had at least one video package for him on Dynamite.
> 
> MJF has barely been used on TV until last night. I bet his segment did very well. Much better than any of Allin's.


He didn't beat anyone people knew the week before though. Maybe if he beats someone higher ranked on the roster. Fans would have too match more seriously and video package wasn't even on tv. Being part of a promo and segment with Jericho/Cody. Puts a guy over way more then putting him in a match that nobody thinks he will win. That would only be far comparison if Darby/Cody/Jericho were in the ring doing a promo together the week after the match.


Putting a guy in big promo like that makes him feel at their level. Putting a guy in a match that people are 100 percent certain isn't going to win is gonna get people to change the channel. 


So comparison only fair if MJf wrestled Jericho for title or Darby was in a promo with Jericho/MJF. Again give these guys months of people on tv to see if they catch on. You think Steve Austin Ring Master gimmick was over in the ratings in 1996 lol. A year or so later he was hottest guy in the company.


----------



## Saintpat

Jonhern said:


> They could all not be watching, they could have been watching some episodes and not others. You really can't tell, not everyone last night has watched every episode and not everyone of those 400k have completely left.


I didn’t watch last night. At least not on TV: I was there.

I also skipped the week when Game 7 of the World Series was on because ... it’s Game 7 of the World Series.


----------



## Natecore

I’ve never watched live except week 1 and the last two weeks in Charlotte and Nashville because I went.

I have standing plans every Wednesday so I watch on the tnt app sometime over the next week before the next episode.

Highly recommend going to Dynamite if it’s close. Easily two of the best live shows I’ve been too and I’ve been to a ton of wrestling shows.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm sure TNT is giving AEW some slack given that they probably weren't projecting the biggest wrestling company in the world to counter attack with NXT and siphon off a significant amount of viewers. 

AEW would probably do 1 million+ every week if NXT wasn't on. And they are still well above expectations, given that TNT hardly paid anything for AEW, it's a home run for them as long as these numbers persist.


----------



## Dizzie

Marko stunt drawing them ratings again


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Good news. I can stop sweating a little. Looking forward to AEW going back to over a million sometime in the next couple of weeks. Seems like Full Gear succeeded at generating buzz, regardless of what the buy rate ends up being 

You've gotta wonder how much stronger they'd be without NXT splitting the ticket too


----------



## Ace

CHAMPIONSHIPS said:


> Good news. I can stop sweating a little. Looking forward to AEW going back to over a million sometime in the next couple of weeks. Seems like Full Gear succeeded at generating buzz, regardless of what the buy rate ends up being
> 
> You've gotta wonder how much stronger they'd be without NXT splitting the ticket too


I think they would have been doing 1.1-1.2m weekly if there was no NXT.

WWE has succeeded to an extent in slowing their growth, those numbers weekly would be troubling to WWE especially given how quickly they're declining.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> I think they would have been doing 1.1-1.2m weekly if there was no NXT.
> 
> WWE has succeeded to an extent in slowing their growth, those numbers weekly would be troubling to WWE especially given how quickly they're declining.


Based on NXT's over run gaining around 150k viewers each week, I think we can hypothesize that the basement gain would be 150k viewers, probably a little bit more since you are only gaining so much off of an over run vs. having no competition at all. The latter would lead to more gains, I would at least think.

Meaning, that AEW this week would've done 1.1M without NXT, probably a bit more, but 1.1M would be the floor.

And the Observer just came out so I'll post quarter breakdowns in a second.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

> In the segments, AEW opened with a Kenny Omega promo, Jon Moxley vs. Michael Nakazawa and a Moxley promo and did 1,080,000 viewers and 600,000 in 18-49. NXT opened with Lio Rush vs. Angel Garza in a title mach that drew 738,000 viewers and 312,000 in 18-49.
> 
> AEW’s second quarter was Dark Order vs. Jungle Boy & Marko Stunt, plus a post-match angle to bring back Luchasaurus. It did 975,000 viewers overall and 542,000 in 18-49, or losses of 105,000 total and 58,000 in 18-49. NXT had the ending of Rush vs. Garza plus Xia Li vs. Aliyah. It did 774,000 viewers and 327,000 in 18-49, gains of 36,000 and 15,000 respectively.
> 
> The third quarter saw AEW have Shawn Spears vs. Darby Allin vs. Peter Avalon. It did 861,000 viewers and 489,000 in 18-49, losses of 114,000 and 53,000 in 18-49. NXT had a Finn Balor promo, Matt Riddle attack and angle for War Games with Undisputed Era, Tommaso Ciampa and Keith Lee. It did 755,000 viewers and 334,000 in 18-49, a loss of 19,000 viewers but a 7,000 gain in 18-49.
> 
> The fourth quarter saw AEW with a Nyla Rose squash, an Allie interview and attack by Awesome Kong and Brandi Rhodes, plus the beginning of the Chris Jericho interview. That did 916,000 viewers total and 527,000 in 18-49, a gain of 55,000 total and 38,000 in 18-49. NXT had Keith Lee vs. Roderick Strong. That did 709,000 viewers and 316,000 in 18-49, a loss of 46,000 and a loss of 8,000 in 18-49.
> 
> The fifth quarter was after MJF came out so it was the Jericho/MJF show, with the Cody run in and debut of Wardlow. That did 1,013,000 viewers and 585,000 in 18-49, increases of 101,000 and 55,000. NXT had the end of Lee vs. Strong and another post-match brawl with the War Games angle. That did 766,000 viewers and 339,000 in 18-49, gains of 57,000 overall and 23,000 in 18-49.
> 
> AEW followed with Adam Page vs. Pac, which did 940,000 viewers and 560,000 in 18-49, a loss of 77,000 overall and 25,000 in 18-49. NXT had Isaiah Scott vs. Bronson Reed. That did 723,000 viewers and 289,000 in 18-49, drops of 43,000 overall and 50,000 in 18-49.
> 
> AEW next had the big Young Bucks brawl with Santana & Ortiz and the SCU ring entrance. That did 899,000 viewers and 547,000 in 18-49, drops of 41,000 overall and 13,000 in 18-49. NXT had the Pete Dunne vs. Killian Dain non-match with Damien Priest running in, which did 672,000 viewers and 275,000 in 18-49, drops of 51,000 overall and 14,000 in 18-49.
> 
> The battle of main events saw AEW have Chris Jericho & Sammy Guevara vs. Frankie Kazarian & Scorpio Sky for the tag titles, which did 968,000 viewers and 584,000 in 18-49, gains of 64,000 overall and 37,000 in18-49. NXT had Io Shirai vs. Mia Yim in a ladder match which did 747,000 viewers and 308,000 in 18-49, gains of 75,000 overall and 33,000 in 18-49.
> 
> After AEW ended, the NXT overrun gained 215,000 viewers, the largest to date, with 422,000 in 18-49. These were clearly AEW fans because not only did they pick up viewers, but their median age dropped two years immediately. The overrun improved the overall show number from 735,500 to 750,000.


As me and @ace were talking about, NXT and AEW are taking a significant amount of viewers from each other, but interesting this week is that a lot of people jumped to NXT after AEW ended, to me that points to AEW being a compelling enough show for people being hooked through the duration, instead of jumping back and forth.

Peaks were Moxley opening, Jericho/MJF promo and Inner Circle/SCU main event. 

Great for MJF, he was a part of the segment that gained a ton, and he absolutely killed it.


----------



## BigCy

Nice jump up by AEW, more than the 909k I was estimating. I think a part of it is PPV fallout from a good event and the rest is people starting to get interested, or re-interested because they're actually putting on segments and building story with promos and listening to the majority of fans that wanted this. I think the couple people who were so adamant about just having wrestling matches non-stop should cough up a bit now.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Also, NXT's number every week is a bit worse than it seems. The real number is 957K for AEW Vs. 735K for NXT this week, not fair to give NXT the overrun numbers.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The first quarter did a huge number in the key demo. 

MJF's segment did a really good number, too. He's already a bigger TV star than anybody not named Moxley or Jericho. As expected. 

Moxley vs MJF is going to be the money feud for AEW for years to come. These guys need a big match against one another on a big PPV every year for the next few years.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Time to cut off NXT's life support and do an overrun. Mox and Jericho seem to be the biggest draws. I think Shawn Spears was involved in the lowest. Darby was there too but I expect his match with Mox will accrue to his benefit greatly because of the greater exposure.


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah they need to start doing am overrun even if it's only minutes. That feeling of not wanting to miss anything last minute during those crucial minutes is huge.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> Time to cut off NXT's life support and do an overrun. Mox and Jericho seem to be the biggest draws. I think Shawn Spears was involved in the lowest. Darby was there too but I expect his match with Mox will accrue to his benefit greatly because of the greater exposure.


Meltzer suggested the same in the newsletter, and it would help, it seems like they are abruptly going to finishes, like I thought it would've been much better if we had an extra 3-4 minutes to do some replays and digest Scorpios win, and they probably could've gone with a little bit more time on the show.

Full Gear is trending about even to All Out, which goes to show that unlike a decade ago, TV isn't going to help them propel to higher buyrates, hell, it probably hurts since now their product is being exposed more for free.


----------



## Jonhern

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Also, NXT's number every week is a bit worse than it seems. The real number is 957K for AEW Vs. 735K for NXT this week, not fair to give NXT the overrun numbers.


It's average viewership so it's fair. It's not like it helps them much, just 15k. That's equivalent to a couple more Nielson homes watching the whole thing.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

You mean with the World Series done, the NBA season dwindling in buzz, and certain shows ending their season for the Fall that the ratings would naturally increase and all the typical overreaction was ridiculous from the usual suspects? Imagine that.

Good bounce back for AEW. I assume this is the base going forward and that is more than fine because they can continue to build off of it as they perfect the presentation of their TV (which they clearly have each week). Next week should be interesting too since we have a Battle Royale, Allin/Moxley, PnP/PP, and some more MJF/Jericho/Cody/Wardlow stuff.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Full Gear drew 8,400 while Nashville did a little over 4,000. Next weeks show, and Chicago are looking like they are doing well.


----------



## FrankAndersson

That's a great rating considering last week. A little off topic but where would you rank it in terms of quality compared to the other shows?


----------



## The Wood

Death Rider said:


> Can people stop panicking now and being dumbasses <img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2XjBg7.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Heston" class="inlineimg" />?


Yes, because they’re definitely past any obstacle they’re ever going to face coming off a PPV bump. Get serious.



Best Bout Machine said:


> 7-0 <img src="http://i.imgur.com/J1vaLXw.png" border="0" alt="" title="Lenny" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> Good to see that the superior show continues to win every week.


Last week was a wash and you can almost guarantee that more people watched NXT. If quality were a factor, AEW would be ahead of Raw but behind NXT and SmackDown most weeks. 

They also haven’t outdrawn Raw ever, and SmackDown has been tripling their rating. Get some perspective.


----------



## Chan Hung

They got over 1 million during some segments? Nice :clap


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Because I my rotating work schedule I missed watching the last 2 Dynamites and Full Gear live. Thankfully I will be able to watch the next 2 weeks live though. Even as a Nationals fan I watched Dynamite live during Game 7 because I knew we were a late innings team anyway and I was right.


----------



## Death Rider

The Wood said:


> Yes, because they’re definitely past any obstacle they’re ever going to face coming off a PPV bump. Get serious.
> 
> 
> 
> Last week was a wash and you can almost guarantee that more people watched NXT. If quality were a factor, AEW would be ahead of Raw but behind NXT and SmackDown most weeks.
> 
> They also haven’t outdrawn Raw ever, and SmackDown has been tripling their rating. Get some perspective.


I thought NXT were turning the tides :heston. If you are expecting a new company to beat Raw and Smackdown you need a reality check


----------



## fabi1982

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Also, NXT's number every week is a bit worse than it seems. The real number is 957K for AEW Vs. 735K for NXT this week, not fair to give NXT the overrun numbers.


Why is it not fair? the ratings companies count the overrun, so it seems fair? AEW can also do overruns, but they dont. 

And good for AEW to pick up the lost viewers from the last two weeks. Most interesting from the breakdown is the quarter were both companies gained, which is interesting. Where were these people before? And why did they leave again in? And this is in the middle of both shows.


----------



## looper007

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Full Gear drew 8,400 while Nashville did a little over 4,000. Next weeks show, and Chicago are looking like they are doing well.


As i said for a while, some cities are not going to bring in massive crowds and some cities will do. They need to go to these southern towns that probably won't be great to expand their fanbase. They can't just depend on their top spots. They bring hot crowds for every show so far, that's better then having a crowd not make any noise.


----------



## The Wood

Death Rider said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, because they’re definitely past any obstacle they’re ever going to face coming off a PPV bump. Get serious.
> 
> 
> 
> Last week was a wash and you can almost guarantee that more people watched NXT. If quality were a factor, AEW would be ahead of Raw but behind NXT and SmackDown most weeks.
> 
> They also haven’t outdrawn Raw ever, and SmackDown has been tripling their rating. Get some perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought NXT were turning the tides <img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2XjBg7.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Heston" class="inlineimg" />. If you are expecting a new company to beat Raw and Smackdown you need a reality check
Click to expand...

Yeah, they probably will. AEW is coming off a PPV bump and will then likely decline. Full Gear will probably do better than expected too. It’s the first PPV cycle since they’ve had TV. Lots of people counting chickens. 

But they’re not, so calling them the winners is ridiculous. If WCW had a show that was doing better than Raw and it was on just another night of the week, people wouldn’t be calling Raw beating Nitro a victory. Take the kid gloves off. 

There’s no reason well promoted wrestling can’t do better than WWE. I’m sick of people stating this like it’s a given. You haven’t appealed to them.

They owe a lot to MJF right now too. It only takes one star, and he’s AEW’s best hope.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

looper007 said:


> As i said for a while, some cities are not going to bring in massive crowds and some cities will do. They need to go to these southern towns that probably won't be great to expand their fanbase. They can't just depend on their top spots. They bring hot crowds for every show so far, that's better then having a crowd not make any noise.


I assume after the Jericho cruise, they'll make their way towards the Southwest and West (especially if Double or Nothing 2 is in Las Vegas again). I also expect Canadian shows down the road as well, which will do wonders for them in terms of demand.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Yeah, they probably will. AEW is coming off a PPV bump and will then likely decline. *Full Gear will probably do better than expected too. It’s the first PPV cycle since they’ve had TV.* Lots of people counting chickens.


I'm not so sure about that.

The KSI vs Paul match did crazy numbers. 

In the UK it was huge and the UK was a very good market for the PPV of AEW.


----------



## thorn123

What an awesome Dynamite. Everyone should be watching.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, they probably will. AEW is coming off a PPV bump and will then likely decline. *Full Gear will probably do better than expected too. It’s the first PPV cycle since they’ve had TV.* Lots of people counting chickens.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so sure about that.
> 
> The KSI vs Paul match did crazy numbers.
> 
> In the UK it was huge and the UK was a very good market for the PPV of AEW.
Click to expand...

We’ll see. I don’t think it will do astronomical numbers or anything, but I think I settled on something like 70k NA domestic.


----------



## Donnie

Shawn Spears killed the ratings by showing his stupid face on TV and as a result, poor Darby didn't get as many eyes on him for his promo on Mox. :mj2 :fuckthis 


God, i hate Spears. Anyone that wants tell you this idiot should have been pushed is a crazy person.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Donnie said:


> Shawn Spears killed the ratings by showing his stupid face on TV and as a result, poor Darby didn't get as many eyes on him for his promo on Mox. :mj2 :fuckthis
> 
> 
> God, i hate Spears. Anyone that wants tell you this idiot should have been pushed is a crazy person.


I say, there are worse people to push. He’s starting to come around. You need solid midcarders for the real up-and-comers to climb over, and that’s all I think they’re positioning Spears for. 

Anyway, there are going to be up quarters and there are going to be down quarters. Sometimes it depends on who or what is on, sometimes it depends on what _else_ is on, sometimes it just depends on when everybody watching has to get up and take a post-dinner crap. Who knows how many other factors come into play. But _somebody_ is going to have the low quarter in every show. If the rest of the show is really good, it doesn’t necessarily mean the low number-getter is total shit. Just maybe sorta shit. 

They do need to hype the shit out of Darby vs Mox, though — that has potential show-stealer written all over it.


----------



## Taroostyles

If I'm AEW I would seriously think about going from 4 PPVS at $50 to 6 PPVS at $35. 

This would do several things. First off it gets your PPVs into more markets and eases the blow of the May and August shows being in the same city every year. 

Secondly it would allow them to go just to a straight 3 hour PPV format instead of 4-4.5 which for the somewhat more casual viewer is easier to digest. Also by lowering the price to $35 but doing 6 you dont lose any revenue and actually gain $10 from everyone who orders all 6. 

And then finally it give the post PPV PPV Dynamite that buzz that we clearly saw helped the rating with this last show.


----------



## Erik.

That's a lovely rating.

The product is refreshing, wanting to improve, listening to its audience and giving us something different to what the other mainstream television company is giving us. 

Hopefully it stabilises or increases. It deserves it.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Taroostyles said:


> If I'm AEW I would seriously think about going from 4 PPVS at $50 to 6 PPVS at $35.
> 
> This would do several things. First off it gets your PPVs into more markets and eases the blow of the May and August shows being in the same city every year.
> 
> Secondly it would allow them to go just to a straight 3 hour PPV format instead of 4-4.5 which for the somewhat more casual viewer is easier to digest. Also by lowering the price to $35 but doing 6 you dont lose any revenue and actually gain $10 from everyone who orders all 6.
> 
> And then finally it give the post PPV PPV Dynamite that buzz that we clearly saw helped the rating with this last show.


When the price came out for DoN, Tony came out and said that AEW had no say in PPV pricing. That is regulated by an outside entity and they said they would try to negotiate down but couldn't promise if or when that could happen. That's why they had Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen for free.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

If they keep doing 2-4 ‘free’ US events which international still pays 20 bucks for, it kinda all evens out at the end


----------



## RiverFenix

Price point is too high. AEW needs to work around that - wrestling fans are not paying $50 for a wrestling PPV. WWE you get PPV's for $10 a month network purchase. With internet streaming capabilities and the like there is little reason why they couldn't in-house it, or at least threaten the possibility to get companies to lower their take and thus the price overall.


----------



## Taroostyles

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> When the price came out for DoN, Tony came out and said that AEW had no say in PPV pricing. That is regulated by an outside entity and they said they would try to negotiate down but couldn't promise if or when that could happen. That's why they had Fyter Fest and Fight for the Fallen for free.


I think that's because of the length of the show requiring it to be more. If they stuck to 3 hours I cant see how they could dictate that. Other companies have run 3 hour shows for all kinds of prices.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Price point is too high. AEW needs to work around that - wrestling fans are not paying $50 for a wrestling PPV. WWE you get PPV's for $10 a month network purchase. With internet streaming capabilities and the like there is little reason why they couldn't in-house it, or at least threaten the possibility to get companies to lower their take and thus the price overall.


That's the only way for them to win some money.

If the PPV are less expensive, AEW will not make enough money to survive.


----------



## AEWMoxley

It's pretty impressive how MJF became a star basically overnight. Not surprising, because I've been saying that they should push him for months, and guaranteed that he'd be a big star at some point, but after one groin shot and a promo, he's already a bigger draw than Cody, Omega, The Bucks, Page, and Pac.

That should quiet down all of those who were saying "it's too soon, MJF isn't ready."


----------



## rbl85

The video of the last show with the most views on the AEW YouTube channel is the one with the return of Luchasaurus.

1) Jurassic express is together again : 120K
2) Jon Moxley issues an open challenge : 116K
3) Did MJF joined the Inner Circle ? : 106k


----------



## Taroostyles

AEWMoxley said:


> It's pretty impressive how MJF became a star basically overnight. Not surprising, because I've been saying that they should push him for months, and guaranteed that he'd be a big star at some point, but after one groin shot and a promo, he's already a bigger draw than Cody, Omega, The Bucks, Page, and Pac.
> 
> That should quiet down all of those who were saying "it's too soon, MJF isn't ready."


Although I agree about MJF being ready character wise, he isnt a bigger star yet than any of those guys. Hes not quite ready to be thrown into a main event world title match and deliver the goods. 

And certainly not Omega or Cody, those guys are still worlds above him as both domestic and international draws. Not even close.


----------



## The Wood

People should be careful with the gains and losses. AEW gaining a few thousand here or losing a few thousand there just means that a few people with boxes did something. Living and dying by the specificity of numbers this finicky is going to get you lost.


----------



## Taroostyles

The Wood said:


> People should be careful with the gains and losses. AEW gaining a few thousand here or losing a few thousand there just means that a few people with boxes did something. Living and dying by the specificity of numbers this finicky is going to get you lost.


Coming from you thats absolutely hilarious. The same guy who predicted the end of AEW cause of the exact same thing in the other direction. 

Your nonsense knows no bounds.


----------



## Jonhern

fabi1982 said:


> Why is it not fair? the ratings companies count the overrun, so it seems fair? AEW can also do overruns, but they dont.
> 
> And good for AEW to pick up the lost viewers from the last two weeks. Most interesting from the breakdown is the quarter were both companies gained, which is interesting. Where were these people before? And why did they leave again in? And this is in the middle of both shows.


The quarter hours the same people could have been watching some of both, the quarter hours count someone if they watch at least 5 minutes in that block, if they watch say 7.5 minutes of NXT and 7.5 minutes of AEW they count in both. So not necessarily new people and not necessarily lost for the whole night, they could have stuck with one show over the other.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Price point is too high. AEW needs to work around that - wrestling fans are not paying $50 for a wrestling PPV. WWE you get PPV's for $10 a month network purchase. With internet streaming capabilities and the like there is little reason why they couldn't in-house it, or at least threaten the possibility to get companies to lower their take and thus the price overall.


I really think they would have more people buying in if they did a $14.99 option on BR Live, including the PPV, do some special events on the off months, and make some stuff exclusive like Dark, can even show it live, and make dynamite available on delay. I think a lot of people would go for that, and they would make the same revenue for each person as if they bought 4 PPVs a year. The psychology of the price point, even if they cost the same in the end, is very big and $14.99 month is a much easier thing for people to just say fuck it and get it than $50 every quarter all at once.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Taroostyles said:


> Coming from you thats absolutely hilarious. The same guy who predicted the end of AEW cause of the exact same thing in the other direction.
> 
> Your nonsense knows no bounds.


Dude, the person is a troll, they literally made a post saying that Jericho should lose the world title to Tanahashi after Tony Khan pays NJPW to recognize the AEW title.

Shit had me rolling.


----------



## rbl85

The early numbers for the PPV buys are around 100K.

This number is without cable buys because they are not available.


----------



## A-C-P

rbl85 said:


> The early numbers for the PPV buys are around 100K.
> 
> This number is without cable buys because they are not available.


:bjpenn


----------



## rbl85

Meltzer said/wrote that the Paul vs KSI fight probably did cost a couple of thousands of buys.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> The early numbers for the PPV buys are around 100K.
> 
> This number is without cable buys because they are not available.


Not bad for what looked like a filler PPV. Interest in the product was waning and the card looked like filler, so I was expecting a lot less. Full Gear did what it needed to do - it generated interest in Dynamite, and it created another star, which the company desperately needed.

Things are about to pick up if they follow on the same path from the last couple of weeks.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Not bad for what looked like a filler PPV. Interest in the product was waning and the card looked like filler, so I was expecting a lot less. Full Gear did what it needed to do - it generated interest in Dynamite, and it created another star, which the company desperately needed.
> 
> Things are about to pick up if they follow on the same path from the last couple of weeks.


The PPV would have probably do even better without the KSI/ Paul fight.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am proud to be numbered among the ppv buyers and I was very satisfied with the purchase.:banderas


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> The PPV would have probably do even better without the KSI/ Paul fight.


It's insane the numbers that fight did. The first one did 1.2 million buys, and this one was apparently even bigger. It beat Joshua vs Ruiz in PPV buys in the UK, and was DAZN's most watched fight ever.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> It's insane the numbers that fight did. The first one did 1.2 million buys, and this one was apparently even bigger. It beat Joshua vs Ruiz in PPV buys in the UK, and was DAZN's most watched fight ever.


Yeah crazy.

AEW is not lucky because when they choose that date for Full Gear, the Paul vs KSI 2 was not announced.

If they knew that this match was going to happen that day, Full Gear would have happened a other day.


----------



## fabi1982

Jonhern said:


> fabi1982 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it not fair? the ratings companies count the overrun, so it seems fair? AEW can also do overruns, but they dont.
> 
> And good for AEW to pick up the lost viewers from the last two weeks. Most interesting from the breakdown is the quarter were both companies gained, which is interesting. Where were these people before? And why did they leave again in? And this is in the middle of both shows.
> 
> 
> 
> The quarter hours the same people could have been watching some of both, the quarter hours count someone if they watch at least 5 minutes in that block, if they watch say 7.5 minutes of NXT and 7.5 minutes of AEW they count in both. So not necessarily new people and not necessarily lost for the whole night, they could have stuck with one show over the other.
Click to expand...

Yeah I get that, but with both shows gaining in the middle of the show, doesnt that mean there were viewers who switched to wrestling in the middle of the show? Who before werent watching?

But generally the system of counting viewers by „he/she/it watched 5mins“ is ridiculous. I guess it is similar here in Germany, but still doesnt make sense to me.

And thanks for explaining ?


----------



## Corey

Who the hell pays to watch two Youtubers box each other?? I never understood the appeal in that but oh well. Clearly those guys know what they're doing and are rich as fuck. :lol


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Corey said:


> Who the hell pays to watch two Youtubers box each other?? I never understood the appeal in that but oh well. Clearly those guys know what they're doing and are rich as fuck. :lol


13 year olds and other youtubers

oh and maybe tiktok users


----------



## looper007

Corey said:


> Who the hell pays to watch two Youtubers box each other?? I never understood the appeal in that but oh well. Clearly those guys know what they're doing and are rich as fuck. :lol


Shows the world we live in today. No massive fight with Tyson Fury or any big time heavyweight or any top boxer would have gotten anywhere near the hype that fight got, it's crazy. Especially as the YouTubers fights suck lol.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

100,000 buys not even counting cable buys? Damn. I think I have an outside shot at the 155,000 I predicted and got laughed at about.

Guarantee you Codys promo sold 20,000+, literally a million dollar promo.


----------



## AEWMoxley

TKO Wrestling said:


> 100,000 buys not even counting cable buys? Damn. I think I have an outside shot at the 155,000 I predicted and got laughed at about.
> 
> Guarantee you Codys promo sold 20,000+, literally a million dollar promo.


No, the 100K number is just an early estimate, which includes an estimate of what the cable numbers might be.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> No, the 100K number is just an early estimate, which includes an estimate of what the cable numbers might be.


And the cable number is normaly not that big (most of the time)


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yeah I heard that the cable number has been 55k for DoN & 29k for All Out. So I just figured I had an outside shot of reaching that top end number of 55k. I thought I read earlier that the report was 100k estimate from just the streaming sources.


----------



## rbl85

Now seriously next week it's going to be hard to beat NXT because i'm pretty sure that some big WWE names are going to appear on NXT.

Plus NXT is probably going to appear way more on the main roster than this week.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Now seriously next week it's going to be hard to beat NXT because i'm pretty sure that some big WWE names are going to appear on NXT.
> 
> Plus NXT is probably going to appear way more on the main roster than this week.


Yep, I think this is the week that the streak ends. I think they have a very good shot of beating AEW the next two weeks sandwiched around Survivor Series.

Will be extremely interesting to see what the ratings are for the 12/4 shows. That will probably be the updated "base core" numbers.


----------



## The Wood

Taroostyles said:


> Coming from you thats absolutely hilarious. The same guy who predicted the end of AEW cause of the exact same thing in the other direction.
> 
> Your nonsense knows no bounds.


There's a big difference between going from 1.4 million viewers to 800k as a continuous trend and a segment "gaining" 28k and it being called a raging success. People don't know when something is going to air during a show, and that couple of thousand is extrapolated from a couple of boxes. When you're dealing with larger samples, trends like that become easier to monitor, but Nielsen becomes way more unreliable the more specific you try to go. When Meltzer reports 822k for a show, it doesn't actually mean 822k people exactly watched it. Nor do the gains and losses of a couple of thousand mean shit in isolation. 

What you can look at are trends. Since the ratings go up when Moxley appears on television, it is fairly safe to assume that there are a few people interested in him, specifically. The larger the drops and gains the more you can read into them too. Losing 100k for a Dark Order segment, for example. You're losing a huge chunk of your estimated audience there. 

The overall trend of the show and comparing it to what the show could do, what other shows do and talking about where it has come from and where it is going is very different to taking numbers like 10k and blowing them up to be meaningful or significant. For the record, anyone paying attention will know that I don't make a big to-do about a 4% margin either way or anything like that. But thanks for playing. 



The Inbred Goatman said:


> Dude, the person is a troll, they literally made a post saying that Jericho should lose the world title to Tanahashi after Tony Khan pays NJPW to recognize the AEW title.
> 
> Shit had me rolling.


I absolutely did, and that would absolutely be the best thing they could do. Unless Moxley keeps doing alright, then you can use him as a transitional guy. But the larger idea is to get the belt from Jericho to MJF, which is a no fucking brainer at this point. Tanahashi factors in since Jericho is doing a match with him in January at the Tokyo Dome, that every viewer of AEW is going to be aware of, and one that Tanahashi is likely going to win, beating your World Champion. And you're not going to get New Japan willingly on side because your EVPs are assholes who think that starting up a new competitor is the same thing as taking a job with an established entity. 

But yes, that is trolling.

As far as the 100k number goes, I assume that is a projected number for the whole event guessing the cable buys through the B/R Live numbers, not what is already tabulated plus cable buys to be added later. They've probably got something like 33k international buys and 33k B/R Live buys and just guessed 33k traditional buys putting them at an estimated 100k.


----------



## patpat

rbl85 said:


> Now seriously next week it's going to be hard to beat NXT because i'm pretty sure that some big WWE names are going to appear on NXT.
> 
> Plus NXT is probably going to appear way more on the main roster than this week.


 I feel like we have been here before...


----------



## The Wood

WWE have surely caught on that the mere implication that there might be main roster involvement on NXT isn't enough. They need to advertise things and deliver with some big names. That is likely going to happen this week. If not, then it probably is a dropped ball on WWE's part. 

But they also need to plot their next move ahead of that, if they don't already have it. They need somewhere to go with this after Survivor Series. An issue with the perception of NXT, as solid as the shows have been, is that things still don't really matter. They need to start selling consequences and having issues that matter.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Jericho is not losing to Tanahashi lmao, they didn't even give Okada a definitive win over Jericho, and that was prior to him being champion.

And no, not every AEW fan is going to be aware of that match, hardly anyone was aware of the Jericho/Okada match and that was after DoN.


----------



## The Wood

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Jericho is not losing to Tanahashi lmao, they didn't even give Okada a definitive win over Jericho, and that was prior to him being champion.


That's because they knew where they were going with Jericho and Tanahashi, which they have been building for about a year. I sincerely doubt they will have the essence of their company lose to a heel gaijin champion of an American promotion they are mad at the fucking Tokyo Dome, but we'll see.

The only people who watch AEW are hardcore fans who are well aware of what New Japan Pro-Wrestling and have a general idea of what is happening there.


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> I feel like we have been here before...


2 weeks (or something) ago i said that the only week that i see NXT beat AEW is the go home show of Wargames and Survivor series.

Because it's sure at 110% that some big names are going to appear on NXT.

Look how close it was last week with just the O.C appearing. Imagine what would happen if Rollins, The Fiend or Reigns appear on NXT next week….


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Domestic interest of AEW Vs. NJPW based on google trends, it's not even close.

Trends isn't a perfect barometer, but when the disparity is that big, it's evident that AEW has way more interest in the States Vs. NJPW. NJPW doesn't even get spikes when they do major shows outside of the Dome.


----------



## The Wood

I'm not talking trends or even interest though, lol. 

If Tanahashi showed up at an AEW show, the people there would lose their minds. If Jericho lost to Tanahashi at the Tokyo Dome, everyone attending an AEW show would know he lost to Tanahashi. The AEW Bubble is the wrestling bubble.

I'm not saying that everyone in attendance at Full Gear had a New Japan World subscription, lol. Of course not, there are only like 200k people in the world with one, or something like that. But if Tanahashi beat Jericho, word would get around that audience. Everyone would know it.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Then your point doesn't even make sense, initially you said everyone would know about Jericho/Tanhashi because it's within the same bubble, but Jericho/Okada happened after DoN, and no one gave a shit about it.

It's going to be the same with a Tanahashi match, hell, maybe even less. The hardest of the hard cores will be interested, but that isn't equivalent to the 800k-1 million people that are watching AEW every week domestically.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

TKO Wrestling said:


> 100,000 buys not even counting cable buys? Damn. I think I have an outside shot at the 155,000 I predicted and got laughed at about.
> 
> Guarantee you Codys promo sold 20,000+, literally a million dollar promo.


If it’s any consolation, we were probably gonna laugh at you anyway. :lol

Seriously (yeah, yeah, why change now), I really didn’t think it would do that well, based on the weekly tv ratings declining. Then I was reminded that there was no tv for the previous ppv’s, and therefore no ratings to decline, which any reasonable thinking person would assume that tv should only boost interest in the ppv. So of course I didn’t assume that. 

I’m glad to have been wrong. I hope. Other than now owing @LifeInCattleClass a tea and a crumpet.


----------



## rbl85

SO for those who are interested for the next weeks tickets sales.

Next week : Indianapolis 
5334 tickets were put in sale (They might or might not open other sections)
4245 tickets are sold (598 on StubHub)
3647 people in the arena for the moment (at least 400 tickets on StubHub are going to be purchased in the last 2 days before the show.)

2 weeks : Chicago
Now i only have the numbers of tickets on resale market (Ticketmaster + StubHub) but it's apprently doing pretty good.
1033 tickets are on the resale market but it's highly possible that some tickets who are on TM are the same on StubHub.

3 weeks : Champaign
Its apparently sold out (20 tickets left on StubHub) if we believe Meltzer.

4 weeks : Garland 
This show is doing really well.
1017 tickets left (they opened new sections today or yesterday) out of +/- 6000 tickets.

5 weeks : Corpus Christi
For the moment it's a disaster
5892 tickets put in sale
2583 tickets sold
1950 people in the arena

Why did they go to that shit place ?


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> SO for those who are interested for the next weeks tickets sales.
> 
> Next week : Indianapolis
> 5334 tickets were put in sale (They might or might not open other sections)
> 4245 tickets are sold (598 on StubHub)
> 3647 people in the arena for the moment (at least 400 tickets on StubHub are going to be purchased in the last 2 days before the show.)
> 
> 2 weeks : Chicago
> Now i only have the numbers of tickets on resale market (Ticketmaster + StubHub) but it's apprently doing pretty good.
> 1033 tickets are on the resale market but it's *highly possible that some tickets who are on TM are the same on StubHub.
> *
> 3 weeks : Champaign
> Its apparently sold out (20 tickets left on StubHub) if we believe Meltzer.
> 
> 4 weeks : Garland
> This show is doing really well.
> 1017 tickets left (they opened new sections today or yesterday) out of +/- 6000 tickets.
> 
> 5 weeks : Corpus Christi
> For the moment it's a disaster
> 5892 tickets put in sale
> 2583 tickets sold
> 1950 people in the arena
> 
> Why did they go to that shit place ?


Apart from individual sellers ie someone who legit can't go and now has to sell, most tickets on StubHub are from scalpers. At least 90% or more of the ones on tm are the same. They have software that lists them on all the resale sites and takes the listing down once sold from all the other sites to make sure they don't double sell. Vivid seats, StubHub, Ticketmaster resale, tickpick it's all essentially the same inventory.


For Champaign you can see a map here, doing really well only a few seats left in the lower sections and considering the seat map for prices on aew website they will have sections for free or cheap student tickets as well. 

https://ev11.evenue.net/cgi-bin/nco...text=&pc=&caller=&appCode=&groupCode=AEW&cgc=


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yeah Corpus sucks, the crowd will be silent.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Damn, Corpus Christi is going to be a ghost town.


----------



## rbl85

Well Corpus Christi is in 5 weeks so at the end the attendance will probably the same than the one for the Charlotte show.


----------



## Jonhern

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah Corpus sucks, the crowd will be silent.


It will be hilarious if it ends up being one of the loudest crowds. Wwe silent/AEW rocking


----------



## Intimidator3

Champaign should be a rowdy loud crowd.

Of all the places they could've gone in TX, not sure why Corpus Christi.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Jonhern said:


> It will be hilarious if it ends up being one of the loudest crowds. Wwe silent/AEW rocking


Could be, look at Charlotte


----------



## Jonhern

Intimidator3 said:


> Champaign should be a rowdy loud crowd.
> 
> Of all the places they could've gone in TX, not sure why Corpus Christi.


They got a lot of shit but maybe we should blame the wwe product not the crowd. Guess we will find out next month.


----------



## The Wood

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Then your point doesn't even make sense, initially you said everyone would know about Jericho/Tanhashi because it's within the same bubble, but Jericho/Okada happened after DoN, and no one gave a shit about it.
> 
> It's going to be the same with a Tanahashi match, hell, maybe even less. The hardest of the hard cores will be interested, but that isn't equivalent to the 800k-1 million people that are watching AEW every week domestically.


Are you honestly trying to argue that it doesn't make sense that if Tanahashi beats Jericho it isn't going to be a news story to the AEW fan-base? The hardest of the hardcores are the only people following this thing heavily, and a large chunk of them have tuned out (for now, at least). As many, if not more, will know about that than who Kenny Omega was when this thing started. 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> If it’s any consolation, we were probably gonna laugh at you anyway. :lol
> 
> Seriously (yeah, yeah, why change now), I really didn’t think it would do that well, based on the weekly tv ratings declining. Then I was reminded that there was no tv for the previous ppv’s, and therefore no ratings to decline, which any reasonable thinking person would assume that tv should only boost interest in the ppv. So of course I didn’t assume that.
> 
> I’m glad to have been wrong. I hope. Other than now owing @LifeInCattleClass a tea and a crumpet.


Just a reminder at this point in time that it seems Meltzer is estimated the overall number from the data he already has. It's not 100k + anything, it's 100k assuming that the traditional buys line up with projections. The digital sales are similar to All Out, but behind Double or Nothing.


----------



## Intimidator3

Jonhern said:


> They got a lot of shit but maybe we should blame the wwe product not the crowd. Guess we will find out next month.


Very true. Charlotte was dead for Clash of Champions but was loud and hot all night for Dynamite with an even smaller crowd.


----------



## The Wood

Jonhern said:


> They got a lot of shit but maybe we should blame the wwe product not the crowd. Guess we will find out next month.


Of course if the crowd is quiet, it's the crowd's fault.


----------



## Chan Hung

I lived in San Antonio a while back and when I would go to WWE shows in Corpus Christi the CD crowd was quite as fuck and it would never sell out. This was WWE. AEW is not doing well but let's hope the fans going there are passionate lol


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Taroostyles said:


> I think that's because of the length of the show requiring it to be more. If they stuck to 3 hours I cant see how they could dictate that. Other companies have run 3 hour shows for all kinds of prices.


You could be right about that idk. I agree that 50 bucks is too expensive even though I pay a lower price living outside of America.


----------



## NascarStan

A their I have to why AEW is running a place like Corpus Christi is to take towns that wwe never goes to like Charleston and traditionally weak towns for wwe and try and establish them as AEW towns like how WCW and WWF back in the day had markets that leaned towards one or another


----------



## The Wood

There's no reason for a PPV to go over 3 hours anyway.


----------



## BigCy

The Wood said:


> Are you honestly trying to argue that it doesn't make sense that if Tanahashi beats Jericho it isn't going to be a news story to the AEW fan-base? The hardest of the hardcores are the only people following this thing heavily, and a large chunk of them have tuned out (for now, at least). As many, if not more, will know about that than who Kenny Omega was when this thing started.
> 
> 
> 
> Just a reminder at this point in time that it seems Meltzer is estimated the overall number from the data he already has. It's not 100k + anything, it's 100k assuming that the traditional buys line up with projections. The digital sales are similar to All Out, but behind Double or Nothing.


You know I was completely convinced that Jericho was winning but after reading some of your arguments I could actually see Tanahashi doing it. I was like 95/5 Jericho but now I'm more like 55/45 Tanahashi. That actually makes the match more exciting to watch for me, thanks Wood!


----------



## The Wood

You're welcome! I guess it's not impossible that Jericho takes it because they have plans for him to do another big match or whatever, but I just can't see Jericho beating Tanahashi at the Dome. They still bank way too much on him.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

Intimidator3 said:


> Champaign should be a rowdy loud crowd.
> 
> Of all the places they could've gone in TX, not sure why Corpus Christi.


Yeah, I would think either San Antonio, Austin, or Houston would be better markets.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yep, TNAs largest US crowd ever was in San Antonio.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yep, TNAs largest US crowd ever was in San Antonio.


Also Austin or San Antonio would mean I could go.


----------



## CRCC

Great number. Good to see them getting back to watching, the show is good and deserve it.


----------



## RapShepard

Why aren't the PPV numbers out yet.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Why aren't the PPV numbers out yet.


Because the replays are important for PPV buys.

But Meltzer said that it should be more or less the same than All Out.

Full Gear would probably have done the same number than Double or Nothing without the KSI vs Logan Paul match.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Because the replays are important for PPV buys.


But I'm almost sure we had numbers before the week mark last time, could be wrong though. I can't imagine folk are still buying replays 7 days later.


----------



## Corey

Saw someone made a pretty astute observation that AEW likes to run their PPVs on holiday weekends, so the next one will most likely fall on February 15th (President's Day Weekend). Pretty good guess right there.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> rbl85 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the replays are important for PPV buys.
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm almost sure we had numbers before the week mark last time, could be wrong though. I can't imagine folk are still buying replays 7 days later.
Click to expand...

There are people on here that want to count replays and reruns into all aspects of AEW to puff them up as much as possible.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> There are people on here that want to count replays and reruns into all aspects of AEW to puff them up as much as possible.


Replay are important for PPV buys but that's all.

For the weekly shows it's not important.


----------



## TAC41

Intimidator3 said:


> Very true. Charlotte was dead for Clash of Champions but was loud and hot all night for Dynamite with an even smaller crowd.




You are able to comprehend that it’s easier for a small crowd to appear hot...right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Intimidator3

TAC41 said:


> You are able to comprehend that it’s easier for a small crowd to appear hot...right?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No need to be a dick about it. And nah, I was at the Clash and it was dead, crowd seemed bored af most of the night. Are you able to comprehend that?


----------



## Piers

Is AEW doing better than Impact ?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They Call Him Y2J said:


> Is AEW doing better than Impact ?


In what regard? From a ticket sales standpoint, and PPV buys, yes, but peak TV viewership for TNA was higher than what it's peaked at for AEW.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

current day TNA looks smaller than some indy promotions. it's sad to see how far the company as fallen.


----------



## imthegame19

The Inbred Goatman said:


> In what regard? From a ticket sales standpoint, and PPV buys, yes, but peak TV viewership for TNA was higher than what it's peaked at for AEW.


TNA biggest year for ratings was 2011. They usually did 1.4 to 1.8 million viewers per week and even did handful of 1.9s-2 million viewers(which Smackdown was doing those numbers on USA and close to Raw last week). That said it you look at how many people watching cable tv in 2011 now. 



It's unfair to compare AEW and TNA 2011 t.v. ratings. For example in random Thursday in June 2011 there was 14 shows on cable tv with 1.4 million viewers plus. This past Wednesday there were four total shows on cable that had over million viewers. So when you look at ratings to judge success you gotta look at what it's up against to judge success. TNA was doing rating a lot of 12-14 other shows were. Right now AEW is top five show on cable tv every Wednesday night. When you consider numbers these days so much longer.


----------



## imthegame19

They Call Him Y2J said:


> Is AEW doing better than Impact ?


When you compare 18-49 demo combined with viewers. AEW is a top 5 rated cable show Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. Not many shows have .4 demos in 18-49 and 900 thousand plus viewers. Monday night's is really only night when cable ratings go higher with Raw, Monday night Football etc.


For anyone who doubts TNT happy with AEW ratings. Consider this....


NBA on TNT this Thursday did.

.39 in 18-49 year olds and 909,000 viewers for game 1

.35 in 18-49 year olds and 766,000 viewers for game 2.




While AEW did .43 in 18-49 year olds and 957,000 viewers


----------



## rbl85

For next week, more people buys tickets on StubHub while those tickets are more expensive than the ones available on Ticketmaster XD


----------



## Taroostyles

Yeah almost impossible to fairly evaluate any ratings data from that time period to now, and that's cause tv has changed so much not necessarily wrestling. 

Cable broadcast TV is a dying medium mostly kept alive at this point because of live broadcast sports and the networks trying to keep themselves afloat. They could easily take their shows and stream them on any number of options. I know more people at this point who dont have cable than people that do.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

rbl85 said:


> For next week, more people buys tickets on StubHub while those tickets are more expensive than the ones available on Ticketmaster XD


Whenever I buy tickets to anything whether it's a sports game or a concert or a wrestling show I always buy off Stubhub. I'm not even sure I've ever been to the Ticketmaster website honestly. I've always felt like I can get a better selection of seats on Stubhub even if I pay a bit more.


----------



## TAC41

Intimidator3 said:


> No need to be a dick about it. And nah, I was at the Clash and it was dead, crowd seemed bored af most of the night. Are you able to comprehend that?




And? 1000 people cheering in a crowd of 10,000 will seem dead all night. 1000 people cheering in a crowd of 1000 will seem like AE levels of excitement. Pretty damn simple concept. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Chrome

imthegame19 said:


> When you compare 18-49 demo combined with viewers. AEW is a top 5 rated cable show Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. Not many shows have .4 demos in 18-49 and 900 thousand plus viewers. Monday night's is really only night when cable ratings go higher with Raw, Monday night Football etc.
> 
> 
> For anyone who doubts TNT happy with AEW ratings. Consider this....
> 
> 
> NBA on TNT this Thursday did.
> 
> .39 in 18-49 year olds and 909,000 viewers for game 1
> 
> .35 in 18-49 year olds and 766,000 viewers for game 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While AEW did .43 in 18-49 year olds and 957,000 viewers












Damn if AEW is outdrawing NBA on Thursday games, they have to be ECSTATIC about that.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> They Call Him Y2J said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is AEW doing better than Impact ?
> 
> 
> 
> When you compare 18-49 demo combined with viewers. AEW is a top 5 rated cable show Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday or Friday. Not many shows have .4 demos in 18-49 and 900 thousand plus viewers. Monday night's is really only night when cable ratings go higher with Raw, Monday night Football etc.
> 
> 
> For anyone who doubts TNT happy with AEW ratings. Consider this....
> 
> 
> NBA on TNT this Thursday did.
> 
> .39 in 18-49 year olds and 909,000 viewers for game 1
> 
> .35 in 18-49 year olds and 766,000 viewers for game 2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While AEW did .43 in 18-49 year olds and 957,000 viewers
Click to expand...

NBA is still bound to attract more advertisers though. It’s still a much cooler product and it goes back to wrestling just not being hot for that sort of thing.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> NBA is still bound to attract more advertisers though. It’s still a much cooler product and it goes back to wrestling just not being hot for that sort of thing.


And TNT spends a lot more money to have NBA on their network then AEW. The point is you can't compare tv ratings from 5-10 years ago to now. Due to cord cutting, streaming etc. 

There's a lot less people viewing cable tv. That is why despite WWE rating often being record lows. There was still networks bidding millions and billions for its programming. It's also why AEW can get half their weekly viewers and still be very successful for TNT.


----------



## imthegame19

Chrome said:


> Damn if AEW is outdrawing NBA on Thursday games, they have to be ECSTATIC about that.


Yeah and AEW goes head to head with NBA on ESPN every Wednesday and those games do even higher numbers then TNT games for whatever reason. But yeah when looking at AEW ratings you gotta look at current competition and what other shows are doing. If AEW does 800,000 to million viewers every week and gets demo in 18-49 of 35-45 well it's doing well. Sure it would be nice to have that 1.4 million viewers back from week 2. But as is they are doing very well still.

I remember Meltzer reported that TNT expectations is 500,000 viewers before the show aired. Everyone felt that number was way low. But when you look at NBA games on TNT are only drawing 800,000-900,000 viewers. They would have probably been happy with 500,000 AEW ratings considering TNT investment. So it's great to see AEW do much better numbers then that.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1196431146768326657
I'm betting it's announcing the television airing from the Jericho Rock n' Wrestling Rager at Sea Cruise. They announced the January 15th date from Miami last week, so the next show announcement would be January 22nd, which is when all the big players are on the JeriCruise (from Jan 20th to Jan 24th).


----------



## rbl85

I think AEW did a mistake for the tickets sale of the next show.

At the beginning they opened only the sections who are not on the main camera side. They sold nearly 4.5k tickets just with those sections but the problem is because they opened sections only on this side of the arena, the other side is nearly empty.

They should have opened sections on both sides from the start.


----------



## rbl85

The Miami show will be named Bash at the Beach


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1196473473390063622


----------



## virus21

I take it WWE never trademarked the name


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

When is the next PPV getting announced? Didn't we know Full Gear at All Out?


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW Press Release - 



> MIAMI, FL (Nov. 18, 2019) — AEW today announced “Bash at the Beach,” an unprecedented, nine-day experience for superfans that features two Dynamite shows, a cruise onboard Chris Jericho’s tricked-out party ship, and non-stop entertainment in between.
> 
> The adventure begins on Wednesday, Jan. 15, when AEW Dynamite takes over the Watsco Center at the University of Miami for a Bash at the Beach themed episode, and continues with Chris Jericho’s Rock ‘N’ Wrestling Rager at Sea, sailing round-trip from Miami to Nassau, Bahamas, on Jan. 20-24.
> 
> High-octane bouts with the biggest names from AEW will be filmed from Jericho’s sold-out Norwegian Pearl ship, including the Jan. 22 episode of Dynamite on TNT. The history-making event will be bubbling with exclusive opportunities to meet AEW’s star-studded roster, as well as non-stop wrestling, rock ‘n’ roll, live podcasts, paranormal explorations, talent-hosted activities, autograph sessions, parties and more.
> 
> “AEW’s Bash at the Beach events will deliver nine unforgettable days of wrestling and much more from the hottest company in the business today,” said Chris Jericho. “Thousands of the Friends Of Jericho on-board the SOLD OUT ‘Rock N Wrestling Rager At Sea’ will have the experience of their lives, and now millions more will be able to watch AEW Dynamite along with us, as we break out the bubbly together from Miami to the Bahamas.”


Cruise episode confirmed as well - though language is a bit confusing if it will be live and all from the cruise or just footage from the four days aired during the time slot. 

Marketing it a Nine Days of BatB, so from the Wednesday Miami Dynamite on January 15th through Friday the 24th when the Cruise ends. Will be interesting to see what they do, if anything, on the 16th through 19th, which is counted a part of these nine days.

Potentially I think we could see a Friday Night Dynamite from the Miami Dynamite taping and then air a live Dynamite on the 20th in their usual time slot from the Cruise. But in doing that it might take away from the specialness of seeing wrestling from the Cruise setting on Wednesday. So maybe use the Monday Dark timeslot as a hype show with footage of the wrestlers boarding the cruise, the ring being delivered and set up etc.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I wonder if the Jan 22nd episode will be taped or live then, nonetheless, pretty cool.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I wonder if the Jan 22nd episode will be taped or live then, nonetheless, pretty cool.


Might be a bit too difficult to have it live on a boat in the middle of the ocean


----------



## RapShepard

That's a cool event, would be too much wrestling for me personally. But that's going to be memorable for the passengers


----------



## TripleG

That sounds flipping awesome! 

Can't wait for that.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> I think AEW did a mistake for the tickets sale of the next show.
> 
> At the beginning they opened only the sections who are not on the main camera side. They sold nearly 4.5k tickets just with those sections but the problem is because they opened sections only on this side of the arena, the other side is nearly empty.
> 
> They should have opened sections on both sides from the start.


Are you saying they opened up the section that will be on TV first, or the section that won't be on tv first? If its the former that's how they should be doing it moving forward, they want the sections that are on camera to be filled and if need be they can open up the other sections if ticket demand calls for it.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1196523447519731712
Wording is vague. Is it airing live on Tuesday the 21st or just being taped on the 21st to air on the 22nd?


----------



## Taroostyles

Sounds like taping on Tuesday and then airing on Wednesday.


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> Sounds like taping on Tuesday and then airing on Wednesday.


If that was the case then they would have said "Wednesday, jan 22, 2020 there will be a special episode AEW Dynamite"

In the tweet they didn't even mentioned wednesday.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1196523447519731712
> Wording is vague. Is it airing live on Tuesday the 21st or just being taped on the 21st to air on the 22nd?


the tweet and the image are contradicting each other

Edit: actually yeah Tuesday 21st Jan Dynamite is airing live. 

Against SD. That should be interesting.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> the tweet and the image are contradicting each other
> 
> Edit: actually yeah Tuesday 21st Jan Dynamite is airing live.
> 
> *Against SD*. That should be interesting.


Oh optikk XD


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

optikk sucks said:


> the tweet and the image are contradicting each other
> 
> Edit: actually yeah Tuesday 21st Jan Dynamite is airing live.
> 
> Against SD. That should be interesting.


Lmao, no, they are taping matches on the 21st to be aired on the 22nd. The matches are being taped live from Nassau, the show itself will be aired on delay.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Lmao, no, they are taping matches on the 21st to be aired on the 22nd. *The matches are being taped live* from Nassau, the show itself will be aired on delay.


I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.

I mean what is the opposite of being taped live ?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

rbl85 said:


> I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
> 
> I mean what is the opposite of being taped live ?


They are saying it's live from Nassau, like it's cool to be filming matches live on a cruise. That's all that means.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> *They are saying it's live from Nassau*, like it's cool to be filming matches live on a cruise. That's all that means.


But it's not.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Well, looks like AEW is finally going to lose a week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Check out the last few minutes of RAW. HHH is begging people to watch NXT, :sodone

No,thank you.I'll be watching AEW.


----------



## .christopher.

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> *Check out the last few minutes of RAW.* HHH is begging people to watch NXT, :sodone
> 
> No,thank you.I'll be watching AEW.


I don't think I'd watch anything on RAW, SmackDown or NXT in 2019 even if you payed me. It's crazy that people are actually spending THEIR money to watch them!


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

.christopher. said:


> I don't think I'd watch anything on RAW, SmackDown or NXT in 2019 even if you payed me. It's crazy that people are actually spending THEIR money to watch them!


So, let's say it works and NXT wins a week. How do you keep people coming back because you can't have every RAW end with a plea to tune in to NXT.


----------



## Corey

I can't imagine they'd have the resources and structure to have a live episode on the cruise that Tuesday night, so while wording is VERY confusing I believe they're taped Tuesday and Dynamite airs the next day per usual.


----------



## .christopher.

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> So, let's say it works and NXT wins a week. How do you keep people coming back because you can't have every RAW end with a plea to tune in to NXT.


I dunno, mate. They just have to do something that's been rare for them since buying WCW in 2001 - put some effort into making a good show. That'd be a start.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> So, let's say it works and NXT wins a week. How do you keep people coming back because you can't have every RAW end with a plea to tune in to NXT.


It's hot shot booking, just like EVERYTHING WWE does, it's not about building long term, compelling stories. Nothing that's truly sustainable in the long haul.

It's been like that with NXT from the get go, that's why the rushed to TV and started off with 1 hour on USA, that's why they blew their load in a Takeover style show on week 1, and now they are pushing Main Roster guys on NXT, like EVERYONE predicted they would when they realized a dork like Finn Balor wasn't enough.

But yeah, this is the same company that said "It's a marathon, not a sprint".


----------



## Aedubya

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Well, looks like AEW is finally going to lose a week.


How so?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> optikk sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> the tweet and the image are contradicting each other
> 
> Edit: actually yeah Tuesday 21st Jan Dynamite is airing live.
> 
> *Against SD*. That should be interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh optikk XD
Click to expand...

oh shit LMAO

Shows you the last time I watched smackdown.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Inbred Goatman said:


> optikk sucks said:
> 
> 
> 
> the tweet and the image are contradicting each other
> 
> Edit: actually yeah Tuesday 21st Jan Dynamite is airing live.
> 
> Against SD. That should be interesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Lmao, no, they are taping matches on the 21st to be aired on the 22nd. The matches are being taped live from Nassau, the show itself will be aired on delay.
Click to expand...

 ”Tuesday 21st January 2020 there will be a special episode of AEW Dynamite”


----------



## V-Trigger

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Well, looks like AEW is finally going to lose a week.


People said the same after the first NXT invasion on Smackdown.


----------



## Aedubya

Where is the thread to this weeks AEW?


----------



## The Wood

The Inbred Goatman said:


> It's hot shot booking, just like EVERYTHING WWE does, it's not about building long term, compelling stories. Nothing that's truly sustainable in the long haul.
> 
> It's been like that with NXT from the get go, that's why the rushed to TV and started off with 1 hour on USA, that's why they blew their load in a Takeover style show on week 1, and now they are pushing Main Roster guys on NXT, like EVERYONE predicted they would when they realized a dork like Finn Balor wasn't enough.
> 
> But yeah, this is the same company that said "It's a marathon, not a sprint".


How is anything in NXT hot-shot booking? They've been producing TV for years at this point. Your narrative is that they "rushed it," but another one that makes just as much sense is that they knew AEW was going to get the hardcores for the first few weeks, so they wanted to get in first unopposed so they can register a high rating which can be used to shop other shows in the future and also means that when they're losing it's a product into it versus a brand new fresh thing. 

NXT has not moved one of their two main event belts around since the launch on NXT. They're very clearly building Cole vs. Ciampa, Baszler vs. Ripley and Balor vs. Gargano. None of them are even happening at the next Takeover. Balor's not my cup of tea, but if he were in AEW he'd be main eventing there. Don't kid yourself. 



V-Trigger said:


> People said the same after the first NXT invasion on Smackdown.


The difference that week, given how ratings work, was basically negligible. Especially when you factor in that so much of NXT's audience would watch it the following day on the Network as well. So the predictions were not wrong. AEW then had a PPV bounce and the interest in the MJF promo. We'll see whether they build off that or whether the rest of the product drags that down.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> The difference that week, given how ratings work, was basically negligible. *Especially when you factor in that so much of NXT's audience would watch it the following day on the Network as well.* So the predictions were not wrong. AEW then had a PPV bounce and the interest in the MJF promo. We'll see whether they build off that or whether the rest of the product drags that down.


I love when you take out things like this out of your ass XD


----------



## rbl85

As you can see only 4 seats were purchased on this section (they just open it)

Now the funny thing is that on StubHub 42 seats are available for this section.

That means that someone (or multiple people) purchased 42 seats on this section, so normally Ticketmaster should show a section with 42 seats purchased and not only 4.

They're basically selling multiple seats 2 times.


----------



## Corey

Taken from AEW's official press release about Bash at The Beach and the 9-day extravaganza:



> High-octane bouts with the biggest names from AEW will be filmed from Jericho’s sold-out Norwegian Pearl ship, including the Jan. 22 episode of Dynamite on TNT.


https://www.allelitewrestling.com/post/aew-announces-nine-day-bash-at-the-beach-fan-extravaganza


----------



## AEWMoxley

I'm still baffled by how often NXT is brought up here. I've never watched a single episode of it, and never will, but going by the numbers alone, it's not even remotely a rivalry. It's been nothing but a massacre. Until they beat Dynamite several weeks in a row, I see no reason to even mention their geeky name. 

Moxley and Jericho alone are bigger draws than the entire NXT roster. Hell, Moxley alone is a bigger draw than anyone in WWE's main roster. Literally no one watches WWE because they are fans of anyone on the show or because they think it's good. They do so out of habit only. Granted, most of AEW's roster is still shit, so they will have a tough uphill battle because of that (when you have consecutive segments with Dark Order, Shawn Spears, Nyla, The Librarian, etc., that lose over 100K viewers each, it's not difficult to see why their shows are only around the 1 million mark) but I'm glad they are building their show around 2 legit stars (Moxley and Jericho) and one up and comer who will be a legit star in due time (MJF.)


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> I'm still baffled by how often NXT is brought up here. I've never watched a single episode of it, and never will, but going by the numbers alone, it's not even remotely a rivalry. It's been nothing but a massacre. Until they beat Dynamite several weeks in a row, I see no reason to even mention their geeky name.
> 
> Moxley and Jericho alone are bigger draws than the entire NXT roster. Hell, Moxley alone is a bigger draw than anyone in WWE's main roster. Literally no one watches WWE because they are fans of anyone on the show or because they think it's good. They do so out of habit only. Granted, most of AEW's roster is still shit, so they will have a tough uphill battle because of that (*when you have consecutive segments with Dark Order, Shawn Spears, Nyla, The Librarian, etc., that lose over 100K viewers each, it's not difficult to see why their shows are only around the 1 million mark*) but I'm glad they are building their show around 2 legit stars (Moxley and Jericho) and one up and comer who will be a legit star in due time (MJF.)


Yeah but they can't have Moxley and Jericho appear for 2 hours.

The worst thing that could happen is to overexpose Mox and Jericho like the WWE does when someone get hot.


----------



## Dark Emperor

AEWMoxley said:


> I'm still baffled by how often NXT is brought up here. I've never watched a single episode of it, and never will, but going by the numbers alone, it's not even remotely a rivalry. It's been nothing but a massacre. Until they beat Dynamite several weeks in a row, I see no reason to even mention their geeky name.
> 
> Moxley and Jericho alone are bigger draws than the entire NXT roster. Hell, Moxley alone is a bigger draw than anyone in WWE's main roster. Literally no one watches WWE because they are fans of anyone on the show or because they think it's good. They do so out of habit only. Granted, most of AEW's roster is still shit, so they will have a tough uphill battle because of that (when you have consecutive segments with Dark Order, Shawn Spears, Nyla, The Librarian, etc., that lose over 100K viewers each, it's not difficult to see why their shows are only around the 1 million mark) but I'm glad they are building their show around 2 legit stars (Moxley and Jericho) and one up and comer who will be a legit star in due time (MJF.)


Moxley is not a bigger star than everyone on the WWE roster or else AEW will not be doing under 1m viewers every single week for a month straight.

And you can't blame the rest of the roster. If he was such a big star, people would tune into the whole show either way.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Moxley is not a bigger star than everyone on the WWE roster or else AEW will not be doing under 1m viewers every single week for a month straight.
> 
> And you can't blame the rest of the roster. If he was such a big star, people would tune into the whole show either way.


The people who watched RAW or SD does it because it's the WWE and not because of the wrestlers.


----------



## Death Rider

Dark Emperor said:


> AEWMoxley said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still baffled by how often NXT is brought up here. I've never watched a single episode of it, and never will, but going by the numbers alone, it's not even remotely a rivalry. It's been nothing but a massacre. Until they beat Dynamite several weeks in a row, I see no reason to even mention their geeky name.
> 
> Moxley and Jericho alone are bigger draws than the entire NXT roster. Hell, Moxley alone is a bigger draw than anyone in WWE's main roster. Literally no one watches WWE because they are fans of anyone on the show or because they think it's good. They do so out of habit only. Granted, most of AEW's roster is still shit, so they will have a tough uphill battle because of that (when you have consecutive segments with Dark Order, Shawn Spears, Nyla, The Librarian, etc., that lose over 100K viewers each, it's not difficult to see why their shows are only around the 1 million mark) but I'm glad they are building their show around 2 legit stars (Moxley and Jericho) and one up and comer who will be a legit star in due time (MJF.)
> 
> 
> 
> Moxley is not a bigger star than everyone on the WWE roster or else AEW will not be doing under 1m viewers every single week for a month straight.
> 
> And you can't blame the rest of the roster. If he was such a big star, people would tune into the whole show either way.
Click to expand...

The days if one guy drawing people to the show by themselves are dead but who on nxt is a bigger draw then Moxley and jericho?

Edit: can see he said main roster too. Yeah I love Moxley but that is unlikely. However no one is really a draw by themselves. No matter who is on top in wwe ratings go down. It is almost like the problems are deeper then who is on top


----------



## Jonhern

Dark Emperor said:


> Moxley is not a bigger star than everyone on the WWE roster or else AEW will not be doing under 1m viewers every single week for a month straight.
> 
> And you can't blame the rest of the roster. If he was such a big star, people would tune into the whole show either way.


that's true of anyone in WWE, the brand is the draw and that's how they want it. The biggest draw is probably roman as the big slide started when he left last year but even him coming back has not brought back those people, so there's no telling if those people left because of him or not. Any of the top guys and girls could be pulled off the show and the ratings would stay the same.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> The Wood said:
> 
> 
> 
> The difference that week, given how ratings work, was basically negligible. *Especially when you factor in that so much of NXT's audience would watch it the following day on the Network as well.* So the predictions were not wrong. AEW then had a PPV bounce and the interest in the MJF promo. We'll see whether they build off that or whether the rest of the product drags that down.
> 
> 
> 
> I love when you take out things like this out of your ass XD
Click to expand...

Why doesn’t that go to follow? A lot of people aren’t going to have time to watch four hours of wrestling on Wednesday, so they’re going to watch AEW on Wednesday and NXT on the Network on Thursday. I’m not talking millions of people, but a few hundred thousand? Sure. How doesn’t that make sense. 

That’s probably where that 34-49 demo disappears to. It makes more sense than the weird suggestion that it’s just not specifically a hit with people in that specific age bracket. 



rbl85 said:


> Dark Emperor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Moxley is not a bigger star than everyone on the WWE roster or else AEW will not be doing under 1m viewers every single week for a month straight.
> 
> And you can't blame the rest of the roster. If he was such a big star, people would tune into the whole show either way.
> 
> 
> 
> The people who watched RAW or SD does it because it's the WWE and not because of the wrestlers.
Click to expand...

There’s truth to that, but you can say the same thing about AEW. They’re only watching because it’s not WWE and they will put up with anything to stick it to ‘em. 

If Orton, Reigns or Bryan jumped to AEW, would they suddenly be draws?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Jonhern said:


> that's true of anyone in WWE, the brand is the draw and that's how they want it. The biggest draw is probably roman as the big slide started when he left last year but even him coming back has not brought back those people, so there's no telling if those people left because of him or not. Any of the top guys and girls could be pulled off the show and the ratings would stay the same.


Roman Reigns sells a lot of merchandise. We have to give him credit for that, because at least he's benefiting the company in some way, unlike, say, Seth Rollins, who is an anti-draw in terms of every single metric you can think of. But that doesn't negate the failure Reigns has been in terms of TV viewership and attendance throughout his run at the top.

What Moxley has done is far more impressive, because he has now proven his worth in three different organizations - two of which don't have anywhere near the brand recognition of WWE, and one is a brand new promotion. The argument that WWE draws more viewers than AEW and therefore Moxley isn't a bigger draw than anyone on WWE's roster" is fundamentally flawed and imbecilic, because I can easily counter with, "WWE's viewership was considerably higher with Ambrose on their roster than it is now without him."

The fact is that Dynamite would likely be doing 500K with Moxley, and 400K at most without both Moxley and Jericho. Before the Moxley signing, TNT executives initially predicted that the company would be drawing 500K viewers per episode, and that's probably accurate. That's why they gave AEW such a weak contract. They couldn't have accounted for the Moxley signing, but luckily, he landed right in their lap.

There's a reason why Meltzer, who has access to a large volume of data across different organizations, referred Moxley a megastar within wrestling, while never using that term for any other current full time performer in any other promotion, be it WWE, NJPW, or AEW. Even guys he likes way more than Moxley, like Omega, Okada etc.


----------



## RapShepard

So did the PPV buys ever get announced?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> So did the PPV buys ever get announced?


Nope but it's should be around 100k


----------



## RiverFenix

WWE stacking NXT this week. Likely want to break the losing streak knowing after SS when all the main rister guys stop appearing they don't have a chance any time soon.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Nope but it's should be around 100k


Yeah im thinking something around that. It'll be interesting to see how much TV can help them.


----------



## patpat

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE stacking NXT this week. Likely want to break the losing streak knowing after SS when all the main rister guys stop appearing they don't have a chance any time soon.


 seriously if they dont beat them this week then this whole "war" is a fucking joke. 
The amount of resources wwe invested is the maximum. The only thing left would be sending seth Roman and cena.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> So did the PPV buys ever get announced?


It obviously did worse numbers than the previous 2 shows. As you know how much Meltzer would be hyping and praising the success of the event if it did better.

It's strange how its taking so long to give people numbers suddenly. Just like how no one hypes up attendance anymore.

Just like WWE, business is slowly down.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> It obviously did worse numbers than the previous 2 shows. As you know how much Meltzer would be hyping and praising the success of the event if it did better.
> 
> 
> 
> It's strange how its taking so long to give people numbers suddenly. Just like how no one hypes up attendance anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Just like WWE, business is slowly down.


Hadn't really thought of that, but I guess that is a possibility. Would be surprising though for it to do much worse with TV.


----------



## rbl85

It's not possible to have an exacte number because FiteTV does not give the number of people who watch PPV on FiteTV.

The only one who knows the exacte number is Khan (+ the EVP)


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> It's not possible to have an exacte number because FiteTV does not give the number of people who watch PPV on FiteTV.
> 
> The only one who knows the exacte number is Khan (+ the EVP)


Yeah I know they don't get those. But he usually gives the traditional and Bleacher report numbers.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Yeah I know they don't get those. But he usually gives the traditional and Bleacher report numbers.


I think Meltzer didn't gave the numbers for B/R but he said it was the same than for All Out.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I think Meltzer didn't gave the numbers for B/R but he said it was the same than for All Out.


Oh okay thanks


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Oh okay thanks


The number on ITV is probably down in comparison with All Out because the KSI vs Logan Paul match was *huge* in the UK


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> The number on ITV is probably down in comparison with All Out because the KSI vs Logan Paul match was *huge* in the UK


I don't even know who those guys are and I saw the shit lol


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> I don't even know who those guys are and I saw the shit lol


It's sad that those to guys are more known that 99.99% of the wrestlers (the 0.01% is The Rock)


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> It's sad that those to guys are more known that 99.99% of the wrestlers (the 0.01% is The Rock)


Lol for me it's just amazing how huge the world of entertainment is now. These guys got millions of followers and I'm just lost on what exactly they do on YouTube and why the fuck they've had 2 boxo g matches lol. They got paid more to box than Jorge Masvidal and Nate Diaz did for their MMA fight that night


----------



## SPCDRI

If the news on the AEW buys was good news, it would have been out already and AEW and the people that like AEW would have been trumpeting them like Louis Armstrong. Given that it happened coming up on two weeks ago and the numbers are still not out yet, I'm going to go ahead and guess that it is not a "wonderful world" so to speak, and that the PPV buys are south of 100k. And while they still likely grossed around 2 million just on the PPV buys, it would have been nicer to show that they were north of 100k and being on television and doing those 7 shows helped boost them.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> Lol for me it's just amazing how huge the world of entertainment is now. These guys got millions of followers and I'm just lost on what exactly they do on YouTube and why the fuck they've had 2 boxo g matches lol. They got paid more to box than Jorge Masvidal and Nate Diaz did for their MMA fight that night


Sad state of society when bad ass boxers and MMA fighters are getting paid peanuts in comparison.

But it's all about what you bring to the table and those two bring in the numbers. Even more than Nate & Jorge.

I also don't know what they do, i thought KSI was a UK artist but never heard any of his tracks.


----------



## rbl85

I think Ticketmaster is having some problems.

There was 900 seats available an hour ago and now less than 80 are left.


----------



## Death Rider

Dark Emperor said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol for me it's just amazing how huge the world of entertainment is now. These guys got millions of followers and I'm just lost on what exactly they do on YouTube and why the fuck they've had 2 boxo g matches lol. They got paid more to box than Jorge Masvidal and Nate Diaz did for their MMA fight that night
> 
> 
> 
> Sad state of society when bad ass boxers and MMA fighters are getting paid peanuts in comparison.
> 
> But it's all about what you bring to the table and those two bring in the numbers. Even more than Nate & Jorge.
> 
> I also don't know what they do, i thought KSI was a UK artist but never heard any of his tracks.
Click to expand...

They are youtubers. KSI used to be a FIFA youtuber. Fuck knows what logan paul does other then film dead bodies in a forest.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> Sad state of society when bad ass boxers and MMA fighters are getting paid peanuts in comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> But it's all about what you bring to the table and those two bring in the numbers. Even more than Nate & Jorge.
> 
> 
> 
> I also don't know what they do, i thought KSI was a UK artist but never heard any of his tracks.


Yeah it is sad, but like you said if they bring the fans then they deserve the money. But I'm sure KSI probably does music, I mean if you can transition YouTube to boxing why not rapping to be a triple threat :lmao


----------



## rbl85

Death Rider said:


> They are youtubers. KSI used to be a FIFA youtuber. *Fuck* knows what logan paul does other then film *dead bodies in a forest.*


Maybe he does that ?


----------



## Dark Emperor

SPCDRI said:


> If the news on the AEW buys was good news, it would have been out already and AEW and the people that like AEW would have been trumpeting them like Louis Armstrong. Given that it happened coming up on two weeks ago and the numbers are still not out yet, I'm going to go ahead and guess that it is not a "wonderful world" so to speak, and that the PPV buys are south of 100k. And while they still likely grossed around 2 million just on the PPV buys, it would have been nicer to show that they were north of 100k and being on television and doing those 7 shows helped boost them.


That's my feeling as well. We all know how much boasting happens on AEW numbers.

It's true the KSI & Logan Paul PPV did massive numbers in UK & also heard it was the most watched event on DAZN. Which means more watched than any Canelo fight.

DAZN is $20 a month? Only hardcore Wrestling fans will pay $50+ for a PPV when you have those two options.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> That's my feeling as well. We all know how much boating happens on AEW numbers.
> 
> It's true the KSI & Logan Paul PPV did massive numbers in UK & also heard it was the most watched event on DAZN. Which means more watched than any Canelo fight.
> 
> DAZN is $20 a month? Only hardcore Wrestling fans will pay $50+ for a PPV when you have those two options.


It's not AEW who choose the price of the PPV.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> It's not AEW who choose the price of the PPV.


I didn't say it was, but potential customers won't care about that. They just look at the price and decide.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> I didn't say it was, but potential customers won't care about that. They just look at the price and decide.


I agree with you but it's just that i can see quite a lot of people attacking AEW because of the price when in fact it's not AEW who choose that price.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> I think Ticketmaster is having some problems.
> 
> There was 900 seats available an hour ago and now less than 80 are left.


For where? Tonight?


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> For where? Tonight?


Yes, it's Strange that so much seats where sold out of nowhere.

But if those seats were really sold then there should be around 5.5k people in the arena.

EDIT : like i predicted, the seats who "dissappeared" are back.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

rbl85 said:


> Yes, it's Strange that so much seats where sold out of nowhere.
> 
> But if those seats were really sold then there should be around 5.5k people in the arena.
> 
> EDIT : like i predicted, the seats who "dissappeared" are back.


Strange because AEW is claiming tonight is Sold Out. Strange.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Strange because AEW is claiming tonight is Sold Out. Strange.


Where did you see that ?


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I just saw it somewhere on Facebook, the ad piece with Sold Out across it.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I just saw it somewhere on Facebook, the ad piece with Sold Out across it.


Well it's not sold out.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

That sucks ^


----------



## rbl85

I'mTheGreatest said:


> That sucks ^


Well not really i mean there will be more people in the arena than for last 3 show.


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

aew is beating basketball in ratings on tnt let that sink in for a moment.........tnt has to be very pleased

also beating some espn nba games


----------



## rbl85

There should be around 5K people in the arena tonight


----------



## FROSTY

i'm seeing with a google search that Full Gear did 100,000 buys.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Tonight was the best looking crowd they’ve had since the debut. Top notch.


----------



## Booooo

I can't wait to see the ratings for this episode. Awesome show really hoping for them to see another boost and get over a million.


----------



## rbl85

Booooo said:


> I can't wait to see the ratings for this episode. Awesome show really hoping for them to see another boost and get over a million.


With all the big names on NXT last night if AEW can have the same number than last week it will be pretty good.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

The rating dropped, no doubt. I just hope they managed to pull off the impossible and win it barely. Google Trends are close.


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> The rating dropped, no doubt. I just hope they managed to pull off the impossible and win it barely. *Google Trends are close*.


Not at all, the google trend for AEW last show is 2 times bigger than the one of NXT.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

#AEWDynamite was trending on US Twitter from 8pm to 1 am. It started at #2 and stayed there for 3 hours before dropping to #6 then # 8 and then #10 with a total of 48k tweets.

#WWENXT was trending for 4 hours. Started at #5 at 8pm then to #4 then #3. After that it dropped to #8 and then off the top ten with a total of 37k tweets.


----------



## looper007

With WWE throwing two of it's biggest stars on NXT, Becky and Rollins. And a few other main roster stars. I said it once this invasion thing started that this will be the only week NXT will beat AEW is the go home show for Survivor Series/War Games. I'm surprised WWE didn't throw more big stars on it. 

If AEW win this week, I will be shocked.


----------



## TripleG

So why did WWE go nuts with all the big name stars on NXT this week? 

What made them go "OK guys, lets throw all the big guns on the show right before Survivor Series!"


----------



## rbl85

TripleG said:


> So why did WWE go nuts with all the big name stars on NXT this week?
> 
> What made them go "OK guys, lets throw all the big guns on the show right before Survivor Series!"


Because they want NXT to beat AEW at least one time.


----------



## looper007

rbl85 said:


> Because they want NXT to beat AEW at least one time.


But you have the die hard WWE fans go "But no you are wrong, they had this planned out all along". Bullshit, they threw this together to try and have NXT beat AEW. No doubt in my mind that's the reason NXT are on Survivor Series.


----------



## RapShepard

looper007 said:


> With WWE throwing two of it's biggest stars on NXT, Becky and Rollins. And a few other main roster stars. I said it once this invasion thing started that this will be the only week NXT will beat AEW is the go home show for Survivor Series/War Games. I'm surprised WWE didn't throw more big stars on it.
> 
> 
> 
> If AEW win this week, I will be shocked.


I don't think NXT is going to win this week either. I think AEW beats them comfortably. I like NXT, but if I'm not double screening I spend most of my time on Dynamite as I can always catch NXT on the Network if something must be watched.


----------



## NascarStan

Prediction time 

AEW - 973k

NXT - 830k


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I predict the combined RAW/Smackdown/NXT wins in total viewers but maybe not in the demo. The question is how does NXT sustain it because there can't be a weekly presence of main roster guys. Will this be a one and done for NXT?

I have watched AEW and have only see the overrun on NXT so far.


----------



## deadcool

Contrary to popular belief, neither Rollins or Lynch are draws on name value or otherwise.

AEW will beat NXT this week too as they have been for the past few weeks.


----------



## Buhalovski

My local bookie had lines for NXT to beat AEW on 4/5 odds. Had to bet it. Its a win win situation for me, if I lose my bet I would still die laughing


----------



## Sir Linko

0% AEW beats NXT this week and I'm okay with that

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

What could screw NXT is that they didn't announce anybody.

If during RAW or SD they said Becky, Rollins, Strowman and Reigns are going to be on NXT, NXT would have done a really big ratings.


But i think that the AEW tag match lost quite a lot of viewers.


----------



## TripleG

If they start putting Raw and SD guys on NXT every single week post Survivor Series, that will kill NXT for me. 

Part of the reason I enjoyed NXT for years is because I didn't have to put up with the stuff from the other shows.


----------



## just_one

yeah as much as i love AEW (and hope they beat NXT again) this week is going to be hard to beat them.

it would be amazing if they did and we the difference we got last week though!


----------



## Chan Hung

This will be WEEK 1 that WWE wins. They threw the whole kitchen sink, tons of main roster mingles and fuckery but fun fuckery and was the best NXT show I've ever seen. If...AEW wins this week, it WILL be a total, absolute embarrassment to WWE if they cant win after with tons of help from the main roster. 

Again I predict NXT gets highest ratings this week with 1.3 million and AEW gets 790,000 this week. Let's see how close I am <img src="http://i.imgur.com/r4mH5hF.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Clap" class="inlineimg" />


----------



## rbl85

I don't think NXT will do 1M.


----------



## Dark Emperor

NXT should be higher this week. Not because NXT will do a big number. But because AEW is doing less than 1m viewers now even after a PPV bump last week. So 900-950k for NXT which is only like 200K more viewers than their core base is enough.

Both numbers are not impressive to be honest.


----------



## RiverFenix

CM Punk not much of a needle mover given the mere 80,000 viewer uptick in that FS1 show. I wonder how much Fox paid for him - because that format is going to grow tired fast him there or not. 

Fans loved the CM Punk character, not Phil Brooks the guy with a wrestling opinion.


----------



## Chan Hung

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> CM Punk not much of a needle mover given the mere 80,000 viewer uptick in that FS1 show. I wonder how much Fox paid for him - because that format is going to grow tired fast him there or not.
> 
> Fans loved the CM Punk character, not Phil Brooks the guy with a wre6stling opinion.


After a few weeks the appeal will definitely die I agree


----------



## looper007

Chan Hung said:


> After a few weeks the appeal will definitely die I agree


It does with everyone, same happened with Daniel Bryan's return. He had to turn heel to get fan's interested in him again. Once you get Punk for a few weeks, he will lose the appeal and fan's bemoaning the fact he's not going to be a in ring wrestler again. 

I see Punk doing a show a month for Backstage to keep it somewhat fresh.


----------



## looper007

deadcool said:


> Contrary to popular belief, neither Rollins or Lynch are draws on name value or otherwise.
> 
> AEW will beat NXT this week too as they have been for the past few weeks.


I agree Rollins and Lynch aren't massive draws.

Just the fact invasion thing seems to get some wrestling fan's hard for some reason, and any fairweather fans who jump between shows would have stayed with NXt to see what happened.


----------



## birthday_massacre

Dark Emperor said:


> NXT should be higher this week. Not because NXT will do a big number. But because AEW is doing less than 1m viewers now even after a PPV bump last week. So 900-950k for NXT which is only like 200K more viewers than their core base is enough.
> 
> Both numbers are not impressive to be honest.


AEWs numbers are super impressive for a start up wrestling company. They are brand new and already beating the WWE show in the ratings they are up against. NXT has been around for years and AEW already has better numbers than it.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

This is the one week where NXT has to beat AEW and break the streak in the ratings. They had Hunter begging people to watch NXT on RAW Monday. They basically had a RAW Reunion version of NXT last night. They have to win or else they most likely never will.


----------



## llj

People aren't too interested in this SS invasion crap from what I see. Really wouldn't be surprised if AEW wins again.


----------



## rbl85

I think NXT is going to win.

AEW will start with more viewers but overall NXT will have viewers, i wouldn't be surprise if NXT win because of the overunn.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Very interesting that WWE is trying to get people to watch Wed.

What... they don’t think during a commercial break the guys will turn the channel, see Mox or Jericho and think ‘mmmm.... maybe I’ll stick around’?


----------



## Lenny Leonard

LIL' WINNING FOOT said:


> This is the one week where NXT has to beat AEW and break the streak in the ratings. They had Hunter begging people to watch NXT on RAW Monday. They basically had a RAW Reunion version of NXT last night. They have to win or else they most likely never will.


Even if they do win, it would be kinda hollow since they had almost the whole roster on nxt and HHH begging for viewers


----------



## looper007

Lenny Leonard said:


> Even if they do win, it would be kinda hollow since they had almost the whole roster on nxt and HHH begging for viewers


And it will go back down next week, let's be real about it. They've only come close to beating AEW when they started to bring in the main eventers.


----------



## JasonLives

People actually think WWE is trying hard to beat AEW? Thats laughable at best. If they actually wanted to beat AEW they easily could. Lets get that right. But thankfully(think praise is for HHH here) is that they dont want to screw with the NXT format too much. 

AEW will do lower then 1 million and NXT will do lower then 1 million viewers. And its gonna be the same thing week after week. There just isnt room for any of the shows to grow. A top here and there is too be expected, but not in a consistant way. 

Have no idea how some people actually think NXT is somehow gonna go over 1 million viewers all of a sudden? They did nothing out of the ordinary that hasent happened the last couple of weeks. 

People are making up a "fight" where there is no fight. Nobody is losing and nobody is winning. Neither show is even close to their debut viewership. Thats not winning for anyone. But no show is tankning either, both shows are just there. But they are both praised for their quality.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

NXT should demolish AEW this week. They did 810k when they didn't advertise AJ was coming, this week they had Triple H telling you EVERYONE was coming, they opened the show with Becky, had Ricochet, Rollins etc.

1 million+ easily, AEW will do 800k, maybe less(as it's evident that more of the AEW audience are willing to watch NXT than Vice versa)


----------



## llj

If you believe in draws, then NXT should do way over 1 million, perhaps closer to 1.5-2m. And AEW would do the same as they have past weeks.

But as it stands, the numbers will likely be a lot closer, because at the end of the day not enough people care about wrestling to move numbers this way or that.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> NXT should demolish AEW this week. They did 810k when they didn't advertise AJ was coming, this week they had Triple H telling you EVERYONE was coming, they opened the show with Becky, had Ricochet, Rollins etc.
> 
> 1 million+ easily, AEW will do 800k, maybe less(as it's evident that more of the AEW audience are willing to watch NXT than Vice versa)


A part of the AEW audience only switch to NXT during the commercials and the overrun.

So if NXT do a big number, it will come from viewers who usually only watch RAW or SD.


----------



## Joe Gill

some of you are over estimating the drawing power of wwe wrestlers.... john cena was the last big star the wwe has produced.... no one after him has moved the needle in a meaningful way. Most people who watch the garbage on raw and smackdown do it out of habit.....wwe has reached zombie level with most fans where they just throw it on in the background out of habit. Its not must see tv therefor its only going to attract its regular viewers. 

I expect the numbers this week to be similar to last week.


----------



## Whysoserious?

AEW will never grow in ratings if they keep putting trash like Sonny and Nyla on TV


----------



## RapShepard

llj said:


> People aren't too interested in this SS invasion crap from what I see. Really wouldn't be surprised if AEW wins again.


Yeah AEW should win comfortably

1. if folk weren't interested the last 2 weeks why tune in now. 

2. Folk didn't know Becky and Rollins would appear

3. You can easily catch anything you missed on the network.


----------



## RapShepard

Whysoserious? said:


> AEW will never grow in ratings if they keep putting trash like Sonny and Nyla on TV


"I don't like LGBTQ people on my TV"


----------



## birthday_massacre

Whysoserious? said:


> AEW will never grow in ratings if they keep putting trash like Sonny and Nyla on TV


So you are a bigot I take it. Why are they trash?


----------



## rbl85

I think more people tune in because it was the go home show.

The probability to see main roster talents was way higher than last week.


----------



## A-C-P

Whysoserious? said:


> AEW will never grow in ratings if they keep putting trash like Sonny and Nyla on TV


Yes, b/c both have been taking up so much TV time so far :eyeroll


----------



## Garty

JasonLives said:


> People actually think WWE is trying hard to beat AEW? Thats laughable at best. If they actually wanted to beat AEW they easily could. Lets get that right. But thankfully(think praise is for HHH here) is that they dont want to screw with the NXT format too much.


Well, let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we...

May 15th 2019, AEW announces AEW Dynamite will air on TNT in the fall of 2019

August 20th 2019, WWE announces WWE NXT will debut on USA Network on Wednesdays live at 8PM starting September 18th and be expanded to 2 hours +

September 3rd 2019, AEW announce AEW Dynamite will air Wednesdays live at 8PM on TNT starting October 2nd

NXT, running without competition drew 1.2 million viewers in week 1, 1 million viewers in week 2

AEW on TNT vs. NXT on USA head-to-head ratings, beginning on October 2nd AEW 1.4 million viewers and NXT 890,000 viewers, October 9th AEW 1.1 million viewers and NXT 790,000 viewers, October 16th AEW 1 million viewers and NXT 712,000 viewers, October 23rd AEW 963,000 viewers and NXT 690,000 viewers, October 30th AEW 759,000 viewers and NXT 580,000 viewers, November 6th AEW 822,000 viewers and NXT 813,000 viewers, November 13th AEW 957,000 viewers and NXT 750,000 viewers

A perfect 7 week winning streak for AEW

WWE Raw November 18th, WWE announces "open-door policy" to all Raw and SmackDown rosters to meet the NXT roster, on their own turf, in Orlando


So, to sum everything up... NXT is failing on USA against AEW on TNT. WWE doesn't like the history being made so far. They've tried all kinds of "bait". Ladder matches, title matches, Survivor Series hype, etc. and nothing has changed since week 1 where AEW and NXT went head-to-head for the first time.

As I've previously said, it's pretty apparent that WWE is aware of AEW and what they are doing on a weekly basis, having stated publicly, that AEW is not competition and at times, go as far as not even mentioning said "competition". WWE has a very important choice to make here in the next few weeks, or months. Either keep NXT on USA Network and hope the ratings improve, or move it back to the WWE Network and keep the audience you do have.


----------



## looper007

To Say WWE aren't bothered by AEW beating NXT every week is silly. They clearly are, I still stand by that Survivor Series adding NXT talent was done to try beat AEW on Wednesdays. Damn HHH has hammered it home twice on RAW and Smackdown for god sake.


----------



## birthday_massacre

Garty said:


> Well, let's take a trip down memory lane, shall we...
> 
> May 15th 2019, AEW announces AEW Dynamite will air on TNT in the fall of 2019
> 
> August 20th, WWE announces WWE NXT will debut on USA Network on Wednesdays live at 8PM starting September 18th and be expanded to 2 hours
> 
> September 3rd 2019, AEW announce AEW Dynamite will air Wednesdays at 8PM on TNT starting October 2nd
> 
> NXT, running without competition drew 1.2 million viewers in week 1, 1 million viewers in week 2
> 
> AEW on TNT vs. NXT on USA head-to-head ratings beginning on October 2nd AEW 1.4 million viewers and NXT 890,000 viewers, October 9th AEW 1.1 million viewers and NXT 790,000, October 16th AEW 1 million viewers and NXT 712,000 viewers, October 23rd AEW 963,000 viewers and NXT 690,000 viewers, October 30th AEW 759,000 viewers and NXT 580,000 viewers, November 6th AEW 822,000 viewers and NXT 813,000 viewers, November 13th AEW 957,000 viewers and NXT 750,000 viewers
> 
> A perfect 7 week winning streak for AEW
> 
> WWE Raw November 18th, WWE announces "open-door policy" to all Raw and SmackDown rosters to meet the NXT roster, on their own turf, in Orlando
> 
> 
> So, to sum everything up... NXT is failing on USA against AEW on TNT. WWE doesn't like the history being made so far. They've tried all kinds of "bait". Ladder matches, title matches, Survivor Series hype, etc. and nothing has changed since week 1 where AEW and NXT went head-to-head for the first time.
> 
> As I've previously said, it's pretty apparent that WWE is aware of AEW and what they are doing on a weekly basis, having stated publicly, that AEW is not competition and at times, go as far as not even mentioning said "competition". WWE has a very important choice to make here in the next few weeks, or months. Either keep NXT on USA Network and hope the ratings improve, or move it back to the WWE Network and keep the audience you do have.


yeah NXT basically gave away a network TV Takeover and still lost to AEW

Its laughable for anyone to claim WWE does not want NXT to beat AEW.

Not to mention NXT is WWEs best show by far and its losing to AEW.


----------



## rbl85

If i was WWE i would put NXT on tuesday.

Yes that would help AEW but NXT would have also better ratings.


----------



## RiverFenix

If Vince doesn't win this week, I think he loses interest and gives up trying. Big build, big stars and a go home into a Big4 PPV - NXT *should* win this week.


----------



## Erik.

Imagine if NXT doesn't win :lol :lol


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> If Vince doesn't win this week, I think he loses interest and gives up trying. Big build, big stars and a go home into a Big4 PPV - NXT *should* win this week.


NXT have to win this week.

Now the important thing for AEW is not the rating of NXT but their rating.

If AEW do more or less the same number than last week then it's a really good news for the futur.


----------



## Chan Hung

llj said:


> If you believe in draws, than NXT should do way over 1 million, perhaps closer to 1.5-2m. And AEW would do the same as they have past weeks.
> 
> But as it stands, the numbers will likely be a lot closer, because at the end of the day not enough people care about wrestling to move numbers this way or that.


NXT started with Becky so they will keep people tuning in and they fed other main rosters all night. Solid good show. Should be 1.0-1.3 million easy. If not then its embarrassment. AEW gets around 790,000 in my opinion


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> If Vince doesn't win this week, I think he loses interest and gives up trying. Big build, big stars and a go home into a Big4 PPV - NXT *should* win this week.


The guy lost to WCW for 83 straight weeks. I don't think 2 months is going to have him disheartened.


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> The guy lost to WCW for 83 straight weeks. I don't think 2 months is going to have him disheartened.


Vince was trying to save his own business from going under at that time. He had no choice but to hold on, it was 1-on-1. WWE now has 3 main shows on TV, so sure, he can let NXT slide for a while, but if it doesn't improve or if it falls any lower against AEW, the writing is on the wall.


----------



## Chrome

Tbh, I'd be surprised if NXT beat AEW this week. Think they come close like they did a few weeks ago though.


----------



## A-C-P

At this point I think WWE is more concerned about AEW Ratings # than AEW is :heston


----------



## TripleG

looper007 said:


> To Say WWE aren't bothered by AEW beating NXT every week is silly. They clearly are, I still stand by that Survivor Series adding NXT talent was done to try beat AEW on Wednesdays. Damn HHH has hammered it home twice on RAW and Smackdown for god sake.


The fact that they are putting main roster stars on NXT now shows that they are bothered by it. 

This is how I picture WWE during the last 7 weeks with the Wednesday night war: 





Their company and future doesn't hinge on this war. It really doesn't matter that NXT is losing to AEW, but they can't stand that its happening, which explains this recent inter-brand push and what they put on the show last night.


----------



## bdon

TripleG said:


> looper007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> To Say WWE aren't bothered by AEW beating NXT every week is silly. They clearly are, I still stand by that Survivor Series adding NXT talent was done to try beat AEW on Wednesdays. Damn HHH has hammered it home twice on RAW and Smackdown for god sake.
> 
> 
> 
> The fact that they are putting main roster stars on NXT now shows that they are bothered by it.
> 
> This is how I picture WWE during the last 7 weeks with the Wednesday night war:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Their company and future doesn't hinge on this war. It really doesn't matter that NXT is losing to AEW, but they can't stand that its happening, which explains this recent inter-brand push and what they put on the show last night.
Click to expand...

What does WWE do with NXT going forward now that “takeover” is finished? 

Vince keeps his grubby paws on that show with his main roster and all that, and they will LOSE the core NXT audience. NXT is already becoming just another part of the larger WWE machine.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> Vince was trying to save his own business from going under at that time. He had no choice but to hold on, it was 1-on-1. WWE now has 3 main shows on TV, so sure, he can let NXT slide for a while, but if it doesn't improve or if it falls any lower against AEW, the writing is on the wall.


But we also hear about how competitive he as (shit like trying to wrestle folk). I don't see him giving up, because then he just officially loses.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Of course Vince is shook. Losing 7 straight ruffled his feathers. But they're _not_ competition. :bryanlol


----------



## A-C-P

The "war" doesn't really matter to AEW either, all that matters to them is drawing #s TNT is happy with :draper2


----------



## Garty

RapShepard said:


> But we also hear about how competitive he as (shit like trying to wrestle folk). I don't see him giving up, because then he just officially loses.


Oh, I agree with you on being competitive, but WWE is spending more money on NXT being on TV, than it ever did being on WWE Network. There is a bottoming-out point, where they have to be financially responsible to the bottom-line.


----------



## RapShepard

Garty said:


> Oh, I agree with you on being competitive, but WWE is spending more money on NXT being on TV, than it ever did being on WWE Network. There is a bottoming-out point, where they have to be financially responsible to the bottom-line.


It depends on what they expected the ratings to be and what it cost to produce NXT versus what USA is paying them.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW BEAT NXT IN THE DEMO LOL

NXT 916K

AEW 893K

AEW .39/NXT .3

I take that as a big win by AEW.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
0.893M [36th] [ - 0.064M | - 6.69% ]
0.390D [8th] [ - 0.040D | - 9.30% ]

AEW | NXT:
0.893M | 0.916M [ - 0.023M | - 2.51% ]
0.390D | 0.300D [ + 0.090D | + 30.00% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.809M [ + 0.102M | + 5.98% ]
0.690D [ + 0.010D | + 1.47% ]*


----------



## TripleG

So AEW wins demo, NXT wins overall viewership?


----------



## Ace

lmfao AEW won the demo again and were slighty behind in viewership :lmao

This is a huge win for them.


----------



## A-C-P

Huge Win for AEW IMO :draper2


----------



## Ace

TripleG said:


> So AEW wins demo, NXT wins overall viewership?


 Demo is what matters, NXT had more from the 50+ demo watching and that demo is worthless to advertisers.


----------



## Ace

Another L for WWE and NXT.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

TripleG said:


> So AEW wins demo, NXT wins overall viewership?


Yeah, but it's a win by AEW, anyone trying to spin it otherwise is retarded.

They lost by 23k viewers, pretty much nothing, but key demo difference is a 30% difference in favor of AEW.

The only demo NXT won was 50+, they won that big, congrats.


----------



## Jazminator

I don't really care about ratings that much, but I think NXT is going to win some weeks. They have a quality show. Both AEW and NXT are, in my opinion, leaps and bounds better than Raw and Smackdown. I actually prefer NXT to be separate from the main roster shows, as talents like TUE, Gargano, Ciampa, Dream, etc. are awesome in their own right.


----------



## Chrome

WWE threw everything they could at NXT while this was just a regular old episode for AEW, but only had a 20k advantage in viewership and lost in the demo. LOL.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> I predict the combined RAW/Smackdown/NXT wins in total viewers but maybe not in the demo. The question is how does NXT sustain it because there can't be a weekly presence of main roster guys. Will this be a one and done for NXT?
> 
> I have watched AEW and have only see the overrun on NXT so far.


Called it. Actually pretty disappointed with NXT'S total viewership. I also wonder how much the overrun augmented it. This just proves that the brand of RAW and Smackdown are the draws because the individuals drew jack. 

BTW 8-0 because the demo is the only metric that matters to advertisers. :bryanlol


----------



## Ace

So NXT lost in every demo except 50 :heston


----------



## looper007

After all that WWE threw at AEW, and they only did that. Nowhere near as bad as I thought it be. They won every demo besides 50.


----------



## PavelGaborik

Now let's see if we can crack a mil next Weds.


----------



## Ace

NXT is probably never going to crack 1m viewers again.


----------



## EmbassyForever

that's pretty great.


----------



## looper007

Ace said:


> NXT is probably never going to crack 1m viewers again.


They had Rollins and Becky on the show, two of their biggest stars and couldn't crack a million. They didn't bring in any new demos besides the 50, who are always there.

That's worrying.


----------



## McNugget

Not shocking that NXT won the overall. They pushed the show hard on RAW and left with the big "door open" cliffhanger at the end. Problem is that even with all of that, they only won by 23k and lost in the key demos.

Both shows strong in overall viewership, which is cool. NXT probably saw a bump in casual viewership from the Monday crowd.

Next week, AEW has a world title match and PAC/Omega. NXT doesn't even have content announced yet. This is pretty easy to predict.


----------



## AEW_19

A lot closer than I expected. Fair play to NXT but that is worrying for WWE's main roster guys.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

NXT will never beat AEW in the demo because,like a certain wrestler, they are not cool. :brock4

The over the hill club likes NXT, the younger crowd likes them some OC, Darby, Luchasaurus et al. :bow.


----------



## Ace

This is an OMEGAL for WWE again.

They've become an L magnet.

Open door for their entire roster, had two of their FOTCs on the show and they lost the demo comfortably and barely eeked a win WITH a damn overrun to boost it as well :lmao


----------



## birthday_massacre

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Yeah, but it's a win by AEW, anyone trying to spin it otherwise is retarded.
> 
> They lost by 23k viewers, pretty much nothing, but key demo difference is a 30% difference in favor of AEW.
> 
> The only demo NXT won was 50+, they won that big, congrats.


And 23k is like one person with a Neilson box lol


----------



## Ace

AEW_19 said:


> A lot closer than I expected. Fair play to NXT but that is worrying for WWE's main roster guys.


 It's proof none of them are stars or draws.

If they had announced Roman was going to be on the show, it would have done a better number than this.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Gigantic loss, for WWE. I'm actually stunned.

Do people not give a shit about the main roster guys THAT much, I figured within the context of WWE fans, Becky Lynch would be HUGE, and they opened up with her. Don't even give me that horse shit that they didn't advertise anyone, they literally said it would be open to EVERYONE from all brands. Some people probably thought Roman would be on the show.


----------



## The XL 2

Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch on a WWE brand live on USA network couldn't draw 1 million people and barely beat an upstart company, didn't even win the demo. I don't want to hear anyone call those two stars ever again, they're absolute nobodies.


----------



## HankHill_85

It took HHH throwing literally everything at the product to grab more eyeballs including the kitchen sink, but yeah, they _just_ eeked out a win in viewership by 23,000.

Does this mean AEW issues a passive aggressive press release of their own congratulating NXT and reminding them that "it's a marathon, not a sprint"?


----------



## Ace

The XL 2 said:


> Seth Rollins and Becky Lynch on a WWE brand live on USA network couldn't draw 1 million people and barely beat an upstart company, didn't even win the demo. I don't want to hear anyone call those two stars ever again, they're absolute nobodies.


 They're all nobodies the only full time star who does something for #s is Roman and this is coming from someone who is not a fan of his.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I am looking forward to the ratings breakdown because I bet NXT hugely benefited from the overrun.

Oh that reminds me again: 8-0, 8-0 8-0.:cheer


----------



## Ace

HankHill_85 said:


> It took HHH throwing literally everything at the product to grab more eyeballs including the kitchen sink, but yeah, they _just_ eeked out a win in viewership by 23,000.
> 
> Does this mean AEW issues a passive aggressive press release of their own congratulating NXT and reminding them that "it's a marathon, not a sprint"?


 Nah, AEW won the demo and was ranked higher in the ratings :lol

AEW was something like 8th and NXT down at 14th.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Next week is going to be REALLY interesting, Survivor Series/TakeOver fallout for NXT, a relatively stacked show for AEW.

Conventional wisdom would make you think NXT wins next week, but I don't know.


----------



## A-C-P

Its a Marathon Not a Sprint WWE :jericho2


----------



## Garty

Ratings for November 20th 2019 are:

AEW 893,000 viewers 8th overall

NXT 916,000 viewers 14th overall

Now discuss...


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

You rolled out your 2 top stars coming out of Mania and scraped a win over the "pissant" company, well fucking done Vince 

This is not a war. Unless WWE move Brock Lesnar to NXT, AEW are winning every week no doubt.


----------



## looper007

Ace said:


> They're all nobodies the only full time star who does something for #s is Roman and this is coming from someone who is not a fan of his.


To be fair even Reigns isn't really a big ratings mover, the only one is The Rock and he's not even wrestling anymore. No one is a ratings puller for WWE anymore not even Reigns.


----------



## Ace

This was also the go home show for Takeover/Survivor Series.

Yikes.

It's a terrible number for them however you look at it, Vince must be shook. He probably thought they'd do 1.1-1.2m easy.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

looper007 said:


> To be fair even Reigns isn't really a big ratings mover, the only one is The Rock and he's not even wrestling anymore. No one is a ratings puller for WWE anymore not even Reigns.


Tbf, Reigns did pull a decent number for his leukemia return earlier this year.

But, yeah, it took beating cancer to get Reigns over, and they've done a number on him over the last few months.


----------



## shadows123

Ace said:


> It's proof none of them are stars or draws.
> 
> If they had announced Roman was going to be on the show, it would have done a better number than this.


I doubt Roman would've made a difference. WWE is not considered cool is what's the truth.. If people don't tune into Smackdown, why the hell are they gonna tune into NXT. AEW is winning all the key demos because they are everything WWE has forgotten to be.. Great characters playing to their strengths with great booking.


----------



## rbl85

They probably win just because of the overrun XD.

Next week AEW will win easily.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I have only watched NXT twice. Part of the 1st week before AEW launched and I watched part of the first head-to-head episode but on The Network shortly before my Network Subscription expired. I came away thinking it's better than the other stuff WWE puts out but it still has some of that WWE stink on it.


----------



## Purple Haze

I guess hunter himself will wrestle on NXT TV next week and still lose.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Wait a second, imagine what the rating would've been had NXT NOT HAD AN OVERRUN LMAO.

They are probably actually closer to equal than we realize, last week NXT lost 15K viewers if you don't factor the overrun LMFAO


----------



## Chan Hung

Isnt the next NXT show right after the ppv? It may get a bump? BUT if it's only NXT minus main roster talent then they are surely in trouble vs that Chi Town AEW show looks fucking good.

Btw so this is technically the 1st time NXT beats AEW right? But barely. How pathetic. They started with Becky and threw out some fun fuckery with lots of SD and Raw Guys plus NXT and barely beat AEW. A win for NXT but a pathetic win.


----------



## looper007

Chan Hung said:


> Isnt the next NXT show right after the ppv? It may get a bump? BUT if it's only NXT minus main roster talent then they are surely in trouble vs that Chi Town AEW show looks fucking good.
> 
> Btw so this is technically the 1st time NXT beats AEW right? But barely. How pathetic. They started with Becky and threw out some fun fuckery with lots of SD and Raw Guys plus NXT and barely beat AEW. A win for NXT but a pathetic win.


A win that they had to throw the kitchen sink with their main roster star's at. Let's not forget that. But still didn't beat AEW in the Demo's.


----------



## Ace

Chan Hung said:


> Isnt the next NXT show right after the ppv? It may get a bump? BUT if it's only NXT minus main roster talent then they are surely in trouble vs that Chi Town AEW show looks fucking good.
> 
> Btw so this is technically the 1st time NXT beats AEW right? But barely. How pathetic. They started with Becky and threw out some fun fuckery with lots of SD and Raw Guys plus NXT and barely beat AEW. A win for NXT but a pathetic win.


 WWE threw nukes and barely won, probably would have won in viewership by the thousands if not for the overrun.

AEW would definitely be the happier of the two companies. WWE probably would be concerned by the lack of star power they have, you just know Vince probably thought NXT would do like 1.2-1.5m :lmao


----------



## MetalKiwi

AEW held strong against everything they put on NXT.
It's a good sign.


----------



## shadows123

(To NXT) Come back Rock ... Rock come back..because once again, we want to smell what the rock is cooking :vince


----------



## TripleG

So NXT won the overall viewership, but AEW won the demo, and ergo, wins the night. 

That's kind of like winning the Electoral College despite losing the Popular vote...which is completely legitimate and how the system works.


----------



## Garty

Ace said:


> WWE threw nukes and barely won, probably would have won in viewership by the thousands if not for the overrun.
> 
> AEW would definitely be the happier of the two companies. WWE probably would be concerned by the lack of star power they have, you just know Vince probably thought NXT would do like 1.2-1.5m :lmao


The quarter hours and the over-run breakdown will tell the full story.


----------



## rbl85

Garty said:


> The quarter hours and the over-run breakdown will tell the full story.


Yes i really wants to see how much did the overrun.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

God damn, can TNT just kill these clowns for good and give AEW an overrun?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Let's make this perfectly clear. AEW was #8 on the night which keeps their top 10 streak intact. NXT was #14 on the night which is well above their average. 8 >14 Bottom line is AEW won the night. PERIOD.


----------



## Alright_Mate

NXT finally get a win by featuring some main roster guys, what a desperate move.

Thought they'd actually win by a bigger margin tbh, they couldn't even get 1 million :lol

Next week will be interesting.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

893K is a great number given that they probably had a decent number of viewers siphoned away from them by NXT this week. If they can just build on this, they will be golden.

Next week might be a bit lower for both since it's the night before Thanksgiving.


----------



## rbl85

The Inbred Goatman said:


> 893K is a great number given that they probably had a decent number of viewers siphoned away from them by NXT this week. If they can just build on this, they will be golden.
> 
> Next week might be a bit lower for both since it's the night before Thanksgiving.


AEW already have 3 big matches planned for next week.


----------



## Garty

The Inbred Goatman said:


> God damn, can TNT just kill these clowns for good and give AEW an overrun?


I have felt that way since the time-limit draw a few weeks ago. Just 5 minutes will be enough, but they'd have to be careful not to use it, just for the sake of it.


----------



## Sir Linko

AEW did well considering everything.

But I don't think they've won yet. They've only won if they keep smooth sailing. Because I will consider this a loss if they become all reactionary on their own product like a certain company...

AEW will have consistent viewers and they'll keep ripping viewers away because people will know it's consistent. WWE will have its times where it beats AEW and literally every show like they always do. Big announcements, nights after Wrestlemania, ect... they'll have their big rating pops. But AEW will always be consistent if they just keep doing what they're doing.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

Umm...congrats to WWE for _barely_ eeking out a win after bringing in a bunch of your big main roster guys...


God this is the most boring wrestling war ever. At least TNA getting demolished on Monday way back when was funny + I still cared about what happened on both shows as bad as they often were. Now, I can't even be bothered to give a **** about whatever's happening over at Vince's boring ass playpen.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

They literally had the person that WON THE MAIN EVENT OF WRESTLEMANIA this year open the show, and this is the best they can manage? Beating a startup promotion by 20k viewers? And still get destroyed in the demo? Also, let's not forget that promoted a LADDER MATCH for the show, and a match many would consider a tag team dream match.

This is embarrassing.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Can’t wait until AEW gets over a million again. Just need one big angle


----------



## Dark Emperor

Im sorry guys, but NXT won the viewership. Why is the narrative being changed to demo because ‘that’s all advertisers care about’. We are not advertisers so it’s an L for AEW.

And both shows still under a million and doing figures TNA on Spike will be more than ashamed of. Let’s get some perspective here. It proves Mox, Jericho & Elite aren’t draws either just like most of the WWE roster.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Im sorry guys, but NXT won the viewership. Why is the narrative being changed to demo because ‘that’s all advertisers care about’. We are not advertisers so it’s an L for AEW.
> 
> And both shows still under a million and doing figures TNA on Spike will be more than ashamed of. Let’s get some perspective here. It proves Mox, Jericho & Elite aren’t draws either just like most of the WWE roster.


I laugh so much my sides hurt XD


----------



## Sir Linko

RubberbandGoat said:


> Can’t wait until AEW gets over a million again. Just need one big angle


I think that's what is frustrating about this whole thing right now. Imagine what AEW could be at if they didn't have to compete with another live wrestling show at the same exact time? 

Do we think they break 2 mil? Do they start off passed 2 mil? Do they even hover over 1 mil? 

Le-blah. I'm just glad AEW is doing well with their show, ratings don't matter to me normally, but this was always one thing that slightly annoyed me.

Considering this week they probably break 1 mil if it wasn't for Raw and Smackdown being on NXT this week, AEW is in the driver seat and doing well in this position


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

THE LAST OF THE RED HOT REPPERS said:


> AEW has been performing quite well in the demo. As a matter of fact when comparing AEW to NXT head-to-head, their lowest demo, a .33 in 18-49, was higher than NXT'S highest which was a .32. :fact


And the beat goes on. :heston


----------



## Lamb boy

HONEYMOON OVER! AEW has a SMALL ROSTER! We're already getting Pac vs Omega II,+ Tony KHAN needs to open his checkbook, stop relying on Daddy's Money, USE YOUR OWN MONEY and grow AEW! The roster they have is so small in stature that Billy Gunn can do the Andre the Giant style battle royal spot of tossing off 7 guys at once. Gotcha. THIS WEEK, REALLY UPSET me! AEW has a SMALL roster those are the facts.


AEW needs to partner with other promotions to keep their ROSTER fresh, New Japan, MLW, NWA, ROH, RANT OVER


----------



## birthday_massacre

HankHill_85 said:


> It took HHH throwing literally everything at the product to grab more eyeballs including the kitchen sink, but yeah, they _just_ eeked out a win in viewership by 23,000.
> 
> Does this mean AEW issues a passive aggressive press release of their own congratulating NXT and reminding them that "it's a marathon, not a sprint"?


AEW won in all key demos. NXT just eeked out a win because of 50 year olds


----------



## RapShepard

1. Surprised NXT won even slightly
2. Why focus on "demo" when wrestling doesn't get top tier advertisers


----------



## rbl85

It's crazy how the people who write their first post on this thread are always big trolls.


----------



## headstar

RapShepard said:


> "I don't like LGBTQ people on my TV"


Not everyone is fine with sexual freaks being shoved down their throats. Sunny Kiss has a move were he literally molests other wrestlers. It was repulsive when Rikishi did it and it's repulsive now.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Whysoserious? said:


> AEW will never grow in ratings if they keep putting trash like Sonny and Nyla on TV


Burying your head in the sand exposes you from behind.

Ooh. The irony.


----------



## Strategize

I'll ask the question here since nobody answered me in the other thread. What and who were NXT advertising? I mean specifically?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

So, let me get this straight. WWE loads up the training wheel show with stars from both of the main rosters, including the poster boy for ill-advised tweets and his husband, that The Schnozz BEGGED RAW viewers to tune into, and they still can't crack a million viewers. Yep, but keep shitting on AEW's numbers and arm-chair booking to draw in those millions of viewers. 




birthday_massacre said:


> AEW won in all key demos. NXT just eeked out a win because of 50 year olds


Not THIS over-50-year-old. :lmao


----------



## rbl85

Strategize said:


> I'll ask the question here since nobody answered me in the other thread. What and who were NXT advertising? I mean specifically?


Basically everyone on RAW and SD.


----------



## Chrome

Lamb boy said:


> HONEYMOON OVER! AEW has a SMALL ROSTER! We're already getting Pac vs Omega II,+ Tony KHAN needs to open his checkbook, stop relying on Daddy's Money, USE YOUR OWN MONEY and grow AEW! The roster they have is so small in stature that Billy Gunn can do the Andre the Giant style battle royal spot of tossing off 7 guys at once. Gotcha. THIS WEEK, REALLY UPSET me! AEW has a SMALL roster those are the facts.
> 
> 
> AEW needs to partner with other promotions to keep their ROSTER fresh, New Japan, MLW, NWA, ROH, RANT OVER


To think this guy could be doing something more productive with his time instead of making alts just to sideways shit on AEW. Sigh....


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Even if you don't focus on demos, NXT had to use all of the main roster star power they could muster, put on TakeOver card again, and they barely won by 20k viewers. This is a hollow victory at it's finest no matter how you spin it.


----------



## RapShepard

headstar said:


> Not everyone is fine with sexual freaks being shoved down their throats. Sunny Kiss has a move were he literally molests other wrestlers. It was repulsive when Rikishi did it and it's repulsive now.


Rikishi putting his ass in men's faces got pops. Also why do you care about other men's sexuality?


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> 1. Surprised NXT won even slightly
> 2. Why focus on "demo" when wrestling doesn't get top tier advertisers


Exactly, it’s to continue the narrative that AEW won this ‘WAR’

What fans should really be doin is looking at the viewership independent of NXT. It’s under 900k and I make it the 4th week it’s under 1m. They started on over 1.4m. Hardly time to pump chest and dance in the streets.


----------



## Strategize

rbl85 said:


> Basically everyone on RAW and SD.


Bro, I said specifically, no shit there's gonna be general invasion stuff considering the storyline.


----------



## fulcizombie

Dark Emperor said:


> Im sorry guys, but NXT won the viewership. Why is the narrative being changed to demo because ‘that’s all advertisers care about’. We are not advertisers so it’s an L for AEW.
> 
> And both shows still under a million and doing figures TNA on Spike will be more than ashamed of. Let’s get some perspective here. It proves Mox, Jericho & Elite aren’t draws either just like most of the WWE roster.


The narrative for every tv show is the demographic. It is actually on what a show lives or dies. This obsession with total viewership, well i only see it in this forum to be honest. As for total viewership when the flagship weekly wrestling tv show does around 2 million maybe you should be a bit more forgiving.


----------



## rbl85

Yep next week AEW is going to woop NXT ass.

For next week :
Omega vs PAC
MJF vs Page
Jericho vs Sky (+la célébration of Jericho) 
Cody's return


----------



## DJ Punk

RapShepard said:


> 1. Surprised NXT won even slightly


-Go home show to Wargames
-Last NXT before Survivor Series
-Main Roster angle currently happening heavily involving NXT
-A plethora of main roster stars on the show
-Main roster stars vs NXT wrestlers matches

I'm surprised they only won by 13k.


----------



## Garty

Reggie Dunlop said:


> So, let me get this straight. WWE loads up the training wheel show with stars from both of the main rosters, including the poster boy for ill-advised tweets and his husband, that The Schnozz BEGGED RAW viewers to tune into, and they still can't crack a million viewers. Yep, but keep shitting on AEW's numbers and arm-chair booking to draw in those millions of viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not THIS over-50-year-old. :lmao


Preaching to the choir my man, preaching to the choir!

Now, pipe down! :sleep


----------



## JasonLives

JasonLives said:


> AEW will do lower then 1 million and NXT will do lower then 1 million viewers. And its gonna be the same thing week after week. There just isnt room for any of the shows to grow. A top here and there is too be expected, but not in a consistant way.
> 
> Have no idea how some people actually think NXT is somehow gonna go over 1 million viewers all of a sudden? They did nothing out of the ordinary that hasent happened the last couple of weeks.


And look at that, I was completely right.
WWE really did nothing special and beat them in viewers. They showed that it can easily be done and now they can continue with their usual NXT format. 

I spent a few years analyzing the TNA/Impact/Impact Wrestling ratings/viewership way back(when I had more time for this forum). Its really the same thing today, the only difference is its now called AEW. Thats why its so easy to predict. You can go back 6-8 years and find the same numbers for TNA(same demo rating, almost the same viewership with TNA a bit higher).

Same thing with NXT. Anyone predicting NXT going beyond their debut viewership are complete idiots(sorry if anyone gets offended). 
Because what? 
HHH said they some Raw/Smackdown superstars could show up on NXT? Already happened before, so why would this be any different? Why would Lynch at the start of the show make half a million viewers to show up? To just see Lynch? Hell, you can throw in Steve Austin in NXT or AEW unadvertised and you wont see half a million viewers suddently tune in the next 10 minutes. The audience isnt there today. This is not the 90s.


----------



## Justin Edible

Thing is AEW wanted over a million and theyve struggled to hit that. Its only a matter of time until TNT force them to step up and that won't be good as the top talent they need to bring ratings in will be costly.


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

Wow. That is disappointing for NXT.

Everyone knew they'd likely break the streak from AEW and they did in terms of the overall viewership but it wasn't by that much when it should have been as the go-home episode to Survivor Series. Seth and Becky are your biggest draws not named Roman or Brock and they couldn't even beat AEW's demo and placement in the ratings. After all of the promoting, all of the cross-branding, all of the main roster additions, NXT slightly beats them but loses all the key demos (some by double) and doesn't place Top 10 when AEW does.

Call it "moving the goalposts" all you'd like. Everyone knew NXT was beating AEW in viewership but for what this was intended to do, they failed. This NXT invasion angle has been a flop. AEW ran a standard Dynamite and held their ground. Next week, they are in Chicago with a PPV tier card lined up and even rumors of a certain debut there as well. 

AEW will be more than fine.


----------



## rbl85

JasonLives said:


> And look at that, I was completely right.
> WWE really did nothing special and beat them in viewers. They showed that it can easily be done and now they can continue with their *usual NXT format.*


But with non NXT wrestlers….


----------



## rbl85

Justin Edible said:


> Thing is AEW wanted over a million and theyve struggled to hit that. Its only a matter of time until TNT force them to step up and that won't be good as the top talent they need to bring ratings in will be costly.


Do you live in a cave ?

TNT was expecting between 500 and 600K for AEW.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

rbl85 said:


> But with non NXT wrestlers….


No, no, he's right -- they brought in half of both of the main rosters, but what's so special about the main rosters. :lmao



rbl85 said:


> Do you live in a cave ?
> 
> TNT was expecting between 500 and 600K for AEW.


They must bring in 5 million viewers, or they are a complete failure. Where have you been the last 20 years, anyway?


----------



## Schwartzxz

everybody was going crazy when AEW had better ratings than NXT when the first episode aired. "AEW crushed NXT" and crap like that. now NXT had more viewers and mostly I see people spinning things and offering excuses. love it.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

So I was just messaging my buddy who has deep connection to WWE and he told me that they were expecting 1.2-1.4M and a .5 Demo. He always throws overly optimistic numbers and I could see the viewers being something they expected but the Demo isn't very believable. He also said that he can't imagine that anyone can be happy with NXT's numbers here.


----------



## Justin Edible

rbl85 said:


> Do you live in a cave ?
> 
> TNT was expecting between 500 and 600K for AEW.


I think you have reading comprehension issues.

AEW wanted over a million.

This is a marathon not a sprint, and with AEW's numbers dwindling week after week its only a matter of time before theyre below TNT's expectation.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

AEW did 822k viewers when NXT had the O.C and did 808k viewers.

AEW did 893k viewers when NXT stacked the deck and had 916k viewers.

How you spin this as a negative to AEW is something I won't understand.


----------



## rbl85

Justin Edible said:


> I think you have reading comprehension issues.
> 
> *AEW wanted over a million.*
> 
> This is a marathon not a sprint, and with AEW's numbers dwindling week after week its only a matter of time before theyre below TNT's expectation.


They never said that.


----------



## Justin Edible

Schwartzxz said:


> everybody was going crazy when AEW had better ratings than NXT when the first episode aired. "AEW crushed NXT" and crap like that. now NXT had more viewers and mostly I see people spinning things and offering excuses. love it.


This is against their development show as well.

AEW against Raw and we'll see who gets crushed. :x


----------



## rbl85

This guy have every characteristics of the perfect troll :

Have less than 15 post
A picture of Rollins 

XD


----------



## birthday_massacre

Justin Edible said:


> Thing is AEW wanted over a million and theyve struggled to hit that. Its only a matter of time until TNT force them to step up and that won't be good as the top talent they need to bring ratings in will be costly.


TNT is very happy with AEWs ratings.



Justin Edible said:


> I think you have reading comprehension issues.
> 
> AEW wanted over a million.
> 
> This is a marathon not a sprint, and with AEW's numbers dwindling week after week its only a matter of time before theyre below TNT's expectation.


You have the reading comprehension issue.

Wanting something and expecting another are two different things.

TNT expected to get 500-600k viewers per show but they love to see it crack a million.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

JasonLives said:


> And look at that, I was completely right.
> WWE really did nothing special and beat them in viewers. They showed that it can easily be done and now they can continue with their usual NXT format.
> 
> I spent a few years analyzing the TNA/Impact/Impact Wrestling ratings/viewership way back(when I had more time for this forum). Its really the same thing today, the only difference is its now called AEW. Thats why its so easy to predict. You can go back 6-8 years and find the same numbers for TNA(same demo rating, almost the same viewership with TNA a bit higher).
> 
> Same thing with NXT. Anyone predicting NXT going beyond their debut viewership are complete idiots(sorry if anyone gets offended).
> Because what?
> HHH said they some Raw/Smackdown superstars could show up on NXT? Already happened before, so why would this be any different? Why would Lynch at the start of the show make half a million viewers to show up? To just see Lynch? Hell, you can throw in Steve Austin in NXT or AEW unadvertised and you wont see half a million viewers suddently tune in the next 10 minutes. The audience isnt there today. This is not the 90s.


WWE did nothing special? Brought in your Wrestlemania ME winner to open the show. They had an "open door" policy with Raw and SD to show up at NXT. 

As far as talking about AEW drawing lesser rating than TNA did nearly 10 years ago you need to realize when TNA was drawing those numbers WWE was getting well over 5M viewers for Raw on the regular. Not like today's low 2M Raw is getting.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Schwartzxz said:


> everybody was going crazy when AEW had better ratings than NXT when the first episode aired. "AEW crushed NXT" and crap like that. now NXT had more viewers and mostly I see people spinning things and offering excuses. love it.


:eyeroll

And why did NXT have more viewers? Because they had to get in main roster guys to finally get a W.

What does that tell you? That tells you the only way NXT can beat AEW is to make desperate moves, their own guys can't move the needle so let's get in some main roster guys to do it, it reeks of desperation.

And despite all that NXT won by a very fine margin and still couldn't even hit a million despite featuring the likes of Becky and Seth.


----------



## KennyOmegaa

Dread it, run from it. Troll Jericho still arrives lmao


----------



## Psychosocial

I got a question. If demo is what determines who wins each week and not viewership, then did WCW really beat WWE 83 weeks in a row back then? They did on viewership, but what about demo? If they lost on demo some weeks but everyone still counts that as an 83 week win, then AEW lost to NXT this week. If they won on demo all 83 weeks, then AEW beat NXT this week. You can't have both.


----------



## rbl85

Psychosocial said:


> I got a question. If demo is what determines who wins each week and not viewership, then did WCW really beat WWE 83 weeks in a row back then? They did on viewership, but what about demo? If they lost on demo some weeks but everyone still counts that as an 83 week win, then AEW lost to NXT this week. If they won on demo all 83 weeks, then AEW beat NXT this week. You can't have both.


The demo is really important when 2 shows are really close to each other in terms of number of viewers.


----------



## Aedubya

Garty said:


> Ratings for November 20th 2019 are:
> 
> AEW 893,000 viewers 8th overall
> 
> NXT 916,000 viewers 14th overall
> 
> Now discuss...


Apologies , im on the other side of the pond

How can AEW be 8th overall with less viewers?


----------



## deadcool

I am more of a bottom line kind of a guy, and as much as I like AEW, they lost this week. I guess I was proven wrong.

I was hoping that AEW would compete against RAW and Smackdown someday, but they are nowhere near ready for that kind of a fight clearly. 

I continue to believe that Dynamite was a better show this week, and they still lost. Perhaps AEW should take this loss on the chin, learn from it, and look into ways of further building their audience.


----------



## rbl85

Aedubya said:


> Apologies , im on the other side of the pond
> 
> How can AEW be 8th overall with less viewers?


Because the younger the audience of a show is and the higher the rank is.


----------



## A-C-P

Aedubya said:


> Apologies , im on the other side of the pond
> 
> How can AEW be 8th overall with less viewers?


Most of NXT's viewers are in the 50+ demo, which for TV is the least desirable demo.


----------



## rbl85

deadcool said:


> I am more of a bottom line kind of a guy, and as much as I like AEW, they lost this week. I guess I was proven wrong.
> 
> I was hoping that AEW would compete against RAW and Smackdown someday, but they are nowhere near ready for that kind of a fight clearly.
> 
> I continue to believe that Dynamite was a better show this week, and they still lost. Perhaps AEW should take this loss on the chin, learn from it, and look into ways of further building their audience.


They just have to continue what they're doing.

NXT will not put 30 main roster wrestlers on every show.


----------



## birthday_massacre

Schwartzxz said:


> everybody was going crazy when AEW had better ratings than NXT when the first episode aired. "AEW crushed NXT" and crap like that. now NXT had more viewers and mostly I see people spinning things and offering excuses. love it.


WWE put their full roster on NXT and the barely won in overall ratings but lost in all the key demos.

How is that a win for WWE especially since they couldn't even crack a million with their full roster on NXT.


----------



## looper007

birthday_massacre said:


> WWE put their full roster on NXT and the barely won in overall ratings but lost in all the key demos.
> 
> How is that a win for WWE especially since they couldn't even crack a million with their full roster on NXT.


And they lost all the important demos as well, only 50 and over watch them.

the fact they had half their main roster on and only got slightly more viewers is pretty damn scary if WWE are concerned. Constant plugging on Raw and Smackdown and they can't crack a million. With two of their biggest stars on the show.


----------



## rbl85

looper007 said:


> And they lost all the important demos as well, only 50 and over watch them.
> 
> the fact they had half their main roster on and only got slightly more viewers is pretty damn scary if WWE are concerned. Constant plugging on Raw and Smackdown and they can't crack a million. With two of their biggest stars on the show.


+ the fact that NXT had more viewers probably thanks to the overun.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

The RAW'S dual FOTC were more like the Flops Of The Century last night. Not being able to draw a million. :sodone Probably most any wrestler could appear on RAW or Smackdown and the numbers wouldn't be appreciably different.

Props to AEW doing so well against the combined forces of RAW/Smackdown/NXT. Better than I expected.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197645262707023874
MELTZER'S ON DA PAY ROLL DOE!!!!


----------



## rbl85

IF TNT wants to "kill" NXT they just have to give 10 more minutes to AEW.


----------



## Psychosocial

rbl85 said:


> The demo is really important when 2 shows are really close to each other in terms of number of viewers.


That doesn't answer my question at all.


----------



## JasonLives

CMPunkRock316 said:


> WWE did nothing special? Brought in your Wrestlemania ME winner to open the show. They had an "open door" policy with Raw and SD to show up at NXT.
> 
> As far as talking about AEW drawing lesser rating than TNA did nearly 10 years ago you need to realize when TNA was drawing those numbers WWE was getting well over 5M viewers for Raw on the regular. Not like today's low 2M Raw is getting.


Like I said, you could have Steve Austin or The Undertaker show up unadvertised at the show, it wont shoot up a half a million viewers 10 minutes later because of that. Not even if you do it in AEW or TNA. 
Hell, throw in Cena unadvertised on AEW and the viewers would barely change.
Unadvertised is not something special that will draw viewers. And yes, I call it unadvertised since no names was mentioned.

They are not drawing lesser ratings, they are drawing the exact same ratings(0.3-0.4). AEW is though drawing less viewers. About 300-500.000 viewers less, depending on year. So a rating is worth less today then what it did several years ago.
Once again, AEW is todays TNA Impact. 
And the discussions, thoughts and points in this thread are EXCACTLY the same like they were 6-8 years ago in the TNA Impact ratings thread. Its pretty much "copy paste" of those posts. 

At this point NXT could move nights but I dont think we would see AEW getting any major boost because of it. They will have their core audience, just like TNA Impact did. Unlike TNA, they might actually keep it if they dont keep changing channel like TNA did. Which killed their core. 
Will AEW grow? I dont think so. Not in a way that they will draw consistant over their debut show. 

Interesting little fact, 14 years ago(and one month) TNA Impact debuted on SpikeTV in 2005 and drew around 850,000 viewers. And here we are today. Just a fun fact, nothing else.


----------



## rbl85

Psychosocial said:


> That doesn't answer my question at all.


Yep >


----------



## imthegame19

Aedubya said:


> Apologies , im on the other side of the pond
> 
> How can AEW be 8th overall with less viewers?


What makes tv ratings matter is advertising. Well people ages 18-49 spend more money then people 50 years plus. So companies care more about ages of the viewers and demos more then overall viewers.


----------



## NascarStan

The fact aew only lost 8% really does show the aew audience is more loyal while the nxt audience is dependent on main roster star power and their audience is more likely going to go back to watching aew after the invasion angle is over

With PAC-Omega II, Hangman-MJF, Cody return and Sky-Jericho for the title I do think AEW will crack one million next week


----------



## rbl85

AverageJoe9 said:


> The fact aew only lost 8% really does show the aew audience is more loyal while the nxt audience is dependent on main roster star power and their audience is more likely going to go back to watching aew after the invasion angle is over
> 
> With PAC-Omega II, Hangman-MJF, Cody return and Sky-Jericho for the title I do think AEW will crack one million next week


And we can be 100% sure that Moxley will also appear.


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

LIL' WINNING FOOT said:


> Wow. That is disappointing for NXT.
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone knew they'd likely break the streak from AEW and they did in terms of the overall viewership but it wasn't by that much when it should have been as the go-home episode to Survivor Series. Seth and Becky are your biggest draws not named Roman or Brock and they couldn't even beat AEW's demo and placement in the ratings. After all of the promoting, all of the cross-branding, all of the main roster additions, NXT slightly beats them but loses all the key demos (some by double) and doesn't place Top 10 when AEW does.
> 
> 
> 
> Call it "moving the goalposts" all you'd like. Everyone knew NXT was beating AEW in viewership but for what this was intended to do, they failed. This NXT invasion angle has been a flop. AEW ran a standard Dynamite and held their ground. Next week, they are in Chicago with a PPV tier card lined up and even rumors of a certain debut there as well.
> 
> 
> 
> AEW will be more than fine.




Wait hold on... Would this debut be anybody that's not a hero?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## imthegame19

Justin Edible said:


> Thing is AEW wanted over a million and theyve struggled to hit that. Its only a matter of time until TNT force them to step up and that won't be good as the top talent they need to bring ratings in will be costly.


Lol this post proves you have no clue what you are talking about. When judging if rating is good or bad you gotta compare it to other things. AEW has top 5 combo of viewers and demo on Wednesday night's. 


Maybe this will open your eyes. Even at around 900,000 viewers and 18-49 at around . 4s. That still points it at similar ratings that TNT gets for NBA on Thursday night's. With TNT paying A LOT more for NBA then AEW. Again as is AEW is one of TNT most successful shows. There's a reason why they would have been ok with 400,000-500,000 viewers. Because that's better then TNT had on Wednesday night's in the past. TNT is thrilled at AEW ratings. 



Remember there's reason why USA is paying WWE huge money for Raw still despite record low ratings. That's because compared to other shows on cable tv they are very good numbers. Just like AEW numbers are some of the best ratings TNT gets. Times have changes with ratings numbers with people cutting the cord and such. So cable tv has A LOT less viewers so anything near million is very good. Especially if it's strong in 18-49 year olds.


----------



## Schwartzxz

Alright_Mate said:


> :eyeroll
> 
> And why did NXT have more viewers? Because they had to get in main roster guys to finally get a W.
> 
> What does that tell you? That tells you the only way NXT can beat AEW is to make desperate moves, their own guys can't move the needle so let's get in some main roster guys to do it, it reeks of desperation.
> 
> And despite all that NXT won by a very fine margin and still couldn't even hit a million despite featuring the likes of Becky and Seth.


but they did this. but they did that. excuses again.

its not my fault that AEW was hyped up by almost everybody as a company thats gonna destroy WWE. with Chris Jericho who is a star and Cody who is supposed to be the most over babyface in US they are barely beating NXT. not even their main show. lost about 600000 viewers since the first episode. how is that good?

also them bringing in Seth and others on NXT doesnt really mean much. WWE has no true stars anymore. its more about the brand than the stars. this is not a situation where Stone Cold in his prime showed up on the other show and the ratings were still shit. nobody gives a fuck about WWEs main roster appearing.

I dont really care about NXT or AEW. I just love the fact that everybody had these huge expectations out of AEW and it aint happening. I knew it wouldnt and over the next year its only gonna get worse. the ratings and their attendance.


----------



## V-Trigger

Schwartzxz said:


> but they did this. but they did that. excuses again.
> 
> its not my fault that AEW was hyped up by almost everybody as a company thats gonna destroy WWE. with Chris Jericho who is a star and Cody who is supposed to be the most over babyface in US they are barely beating NXT. not even their main show. lost about 600000 viewers since the first episode. how is that good?
> 
> also them bringing in Seth and others on NXT doesnt really mean much. WWE has no true stars anymore. its more about the brand than the stars. this is not a situation where Stone Cold in his prime showed up on the other show and the ratings were still shit. nobody gives a fuck about WWEs main roster appearing.
> 
> I dont really care about NXT or AEW. I just love the fact that everybody had these huge expectations out of AEW and it aint happening. I knew it wouldnt and over the next year its only gonna get worse. the ratings and their attendance.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

A-C-P said:


> Most of NXT's viewers are in the 50+ demo, which for TV is the least desirable demo.


That makes sense — the only reason most of them are even watching is cos they can’t remember where they left the fucking remote to change the channel. :lmao 
(Don’t ask me how I know.)


----------



## birthday_massacre

Schwartzxz said:


> but they did this. but they did that. excuses again.
> 
> its not my fault that AEW was hyped up by almost everybody as a company thats gonna destroy WWE. with Chris Jericho who is a star and Cody who is supposed to be the most over babyface in US they are barely beating NXT. not even their main show. lost about 600000 viewers since the first episode. how is that good?
> 
> also them bringing in Seth and others on NXT doesnt really mean much. WWE has no true stars anymore. its more about the brand than the stars. this is not a situation where Stone Cold in his prime showed up on the other show and the ratings were still shit. nobody gives a fuck about WWEs main roster appearing.
> 
> I dont really care about NXT or AEW. I just love the fact that everybody had these huge expectations out of AEW and it aint happening. I knew it wouldnt and over the next year its only gonna get worse. the ratings and their attendance.


WTF are you talking about, AEW is doing exactly what most people thought it would. At least give them a full year on TV. AEW is doing great for a start-up wrestling company.


----------



## DOTL

Schwartzxz said:


> *I dont really care about NXT or AEW. I just love the fact that everybody had these huge expectations out of AEW and it aint happening. I knew it wouldnt and over the next year its only gonna get worse. the ratings and their attendance.*


Not only is this speculation, but it's also unlikely for one reason. AEW is only going to improve in five year's time. It's already a better show. It's got money, and it's making better use of talent. Once they master promotion, they'll only get bigger. 

I believe this because AEW went up last week, and is doing better this week than 2 weeks ago. It's not collapsing in the slightest. 

Now WWE. That's collapsing.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Schwartzxz said:


> but they did this. but they did that. excuses again.
> 
> its not my fault that AEW was hyped up by almost everybody as a company thats gonna destroy WWE. with Chris Jericho who is a star and Cody who is supposed to be the most over babyface in US they are barely beating NXT. not even their main show. lost about 600000 viewers since the first episode. how is that good?
> 
> also them bringing in Seth and others on NXT doesnt really mean much. WWE has no true stars anymore. its more about the brand than the stars. this is not a situation where Stone Cold in his prime showed up on the other show and the ratings were still shit. nobody gives a fuck about WWEs main roster appearing.
> 
> *I dont really care about NXT or AEW*. I just love the fact that everybody had these huge expectations out of AEW and it aint happening. I knew it wouldnt and over the next year its only gonna get worse. the ratings and their attendance.


Hmmmmm .... yet here you are.


----------



## Schwartzxz

birthday_massacre said:


> AEW is doing exactly what most people thought it would.


sure pal



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Hmmmmm .... yet here you are.


yes. Im here. on the FORUM. the excuses are amusing me. still not watching either NXT or AEW. like millions of other past and current wrestling fans.


----------



## RapShepard

AEW is still up 7-1 some of y'all should cool it on the excuses. They only had a few thousand more viewers after all. NXT isn't likely to beat them often. It's okay if they got the most minor of Ls


----------



## looper007

RapShepard said:


> AEW is still up 7-1 some of y'all should cool it on the excuses. They only had a few thousand more viewers after all. NXT isn't likely to beat them often. It's okay if they got the most minor of Ls


When they had to throw the main roster and promote it huge on Raw and Smackdown. I take that as AEW is clearly rattling them lol. If you are a AEW fan it's victory, they couldn't beat them in all the demos besides the over 50's and AEW still finished inside the top 10 shows, all more important for TV execs. And NXT can't go to that well of main eventers too much longer cause it will dry up with the over 50's. 

AS Meltzer said AEW will come out of this looking the more happier.


----------



## Taroostyles

I think the overall consensus though is that NXT didnt beat AEW, Raw and SD did. They had stars from both brands all over the show and they still barely squeaked out a win. 

What happens next week when NXT is still just NXT again?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Schwartzxz said:


> yes. Im here. on the FORUM. the excuses are amusing me. still not watching either NXT or AEW. like millions of other past and current wrestling fans.


I hear dentists are doing some really cool shit with preventative care these days. Millions of people are doing that too, you should try it.


----------



## Dizzie

I can see it getting to a point that nxt will just become another main roster brand to try and out do aew in the ratings on a consistent basis.


----------



## Bryan Jericho

Some of you in here are hilarious. AEW only lost because WWE used RAW and Smackdown stars. Yet aren't you the guys saying that RAW and Smackdown have no stars? Yet they still won. And RAW/SD/NXT are all WWE so they can use whoever they want. IF Vince wanted to he could put bigger stars on NXT every week and win the ratings like they did this week, but he doesn't. So calm down with the excuses. Some of you thought AEW would kill WWE, they're not blowing away NXT (WWE's THIRD brand) so again....calm down. lol


----------



## FROSTY

YEAH take that AEW and their fans! NXT WON SO THEY ARE BETTER!


----------



## Death Rider

RapShepard said:


> AEW is still up 7-1 some of y'all should cool it on the excuses. They only had a few thousand more viewers after all. NXT isn't likely to beat them often. It's okay if they got the most minor of Ls


It is not excuses. It is facts. It took wwe putting their main roster on the show and hhh ending raw with a "watch nxt please " promo to do it. Yeah nxt won but I think nxt should be more worried that they did not win by more.


----------



## rbl85

FROSTY said:


> YEAH take that AEW and their fans! NXT WON SO THEY ARE BETTER!


The fishing is a little bit too obvious>


----------



## Chan Hung

I said this in the other thread that it is a very pathetic victory for the WWE when they have Becky Lynch Seth Rollins they have a bunch of people there and they barely managed to beat AEW, that is an embarrassment


----------



## FROSTY

rbl85 said:


> The fishing is a little bit too obvious>


I have no idea what you're talking about :angel NXT DID WIN, SO THEY ARE BETTER!


----------



## RainmakerV2

birthday_massacre said:


> WWE put their full roster on NXT and the barely won in overall ratings but lost in all the key demos.
> 
> How is that a win for WWE especially since they couldn't even crack a million with their full roster on NXT.


Full Roster? Lol. Roman, Braun, Bray, Bryan, Corbin, Mysterio, AJ, uh, yeah this guy BROCK LESNAR, all not there. Its hilarious how all the people in here who call Seth and Becky rating killers are now in here throwing parties because they didnt draw. (Nothing was adveristed by the way. ) Also funny how Jericho is basically admitting they can't beat WWEs main roster. 

And look, its a good number for AEW, but to say "full roster" when the biggest they had were unadvertised Rolynch appearances is a crock of shit lmao. They hung in there againstt the likes of Zack Ryder, Ricochet, and Cesaro. I mean, cool. 

And AEW probably wins the night if they actually had their stars on the show. No Omega, no Cody, no Pac, only half of the Lucha bros and Bucks, no Brandi and Kong, Page and MJF were just scattered in a battle royal. I mean they loaded up on next weeks card, but WWE did what they wanted to. Both shows did. To act like this is some big win for AEW is a little farfetched. They held ground fine. They're always gonna have the younger demo.


----------



## rbl85

FROSTY said:


> I have no idea what you're talking about :angel NXT DID WIN, SO THEY ARE BETTER!


XD


----------



## FROSTY

rbl85 said:


> XD


(|)


----------



## Ashley Whittle

The problem with AEW is that they're too wrestling heavy for a television show - casual viewers will just tune out. Same even applies to WWE these days but they have brand recognition which will see them as the eventual winner in this ratings war. They shouldn't be treating it as a victory though because they have their own issues to deal with (which I don't actually think can be rectified). Both companies are in trouble long-term.


----------



## imthegame19

Bryan Jericho said:


> Some of you in here are hilarious. AEW only lost because WWE used RAW and Smackdown stars. Yet aren't you the guys saying that RAW and Smackdown have no stars? Yet they still won. And RAW/SD/NXT are all WWE so they can use whoever they want. IF Vince wanted to he could put bigger stars on NXT every week and win the ratings like they did this week, but he doesn't. So calm down with the excuses. Some of you thought AEW would kill WWE, they're not blowing away NXT (WWE's THIRD brand) so again....calm down. lol


They don't have stars but they have known wrestlers that their fanbase will tune in for. The combo of Becky Lynch, Ricochet, Revival, McIntyre, Rollins etc. They took a chunk of Raw roster and put it on NXT for the night. Doing a lot of Raw vs NXT stuff. So it's a fact that viewers from Raw watched NXT to see Raw guys on the show. Which is why NXT got push to beat them this week.


But you are wrong Vince can't put all his focus on NXT beating AEW every week. He gotta make sure Raw ratings don't keep dropping. He needs to find away for Smackdown to do better on Fox. So he can't afford to focus everything on NXT. But what he can do his try to make NXT talent look like equals to Raw/Smackdown talent. 


While adding a few more main roster people to NXT. AEW will likely gonna go back to killing NXT in the ratings. Like they did 6 of 8 weeks without guys from main roster invading. Then Vince will have to decide what other wrestlers he wants to put on NXT. Finn Balor was just a start he's gonna have to put a few other big names on the show. Especially since this week shows they can compete with AEW. If they add more known WWE names to NXT.


----------



## imthegame19

Ashley Whittle said:


> The problem with AEW is that they're too wrestling heavy for a television show - casual viewers will just tune out. Same even applies to WWE these days but they have brand recognition which will see them as the eventual winner in this ratings war. They shouldn't be treating it as a victory though because they have their own issues to deal with (which I don't actually think can be rectified). Both companies are in trouble long-term.


AEW been on tv for 8 weeks and doing similar numbers that NBA does for TNT. They are doing just fine and a top rated cable show on Wednesday nights. Even with WWE win it wasn't a good win. Because NXT still was way behind AEW in 18-49 demo that means the most advertisers. The only reason ratings matter is for ad revenue and advertisers are gonna look at AEW demos last night of more a success then NXT having 20,000 something more viewers.


----------



## EMGESP

So what were the numbers?

Nevermind, so AEW only lost by 23K viewers and still won the key demo. So even when Vince loads NXT with tons of Main Roster stars they can't win key demo, lol. People at AEW should be very happy.


----------



## Soul Rex

Who gives a shit about demos, I won't be happy with Dynamite viewership until they beat Raw.

Fuck seeing NXT as competition, that's lowering yourself, that whole brand doesn't have any power value, its just a glorified developmental territory with a few main stars doing cameo appearances.


----------



## Natecore

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

Wwe is the proverbial blind squirrel finding a nut.

AEW back on top next week.

Excuse me while I fire up the TNT app and watch last night’s Dynamite! :mark:


----------



## rbl85

Soul Rex said:


> Who gives a shit about demos, I won't be happy with Dynamite viewership until they beat Raw.
> 
> Fuck seeing NXT as competition, that's lowering yourself, that whole brand doesn't have any power value, its just a glorified developmental territory with a few main stars doing cameo appearances.


Who gives a shit ?
TNT

If AEW needs to beat RAW for you to be happy then i guess you're going to unhappy for a couple of years and maybe forever.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Pathetic stuff by WWE. Equivalent of using a cheat code on a video game


----------



## rbl85

A PG Attitude said:


> Pathetic stuff by WWE. Equivalent of using a cheat code on a video game


I wouldn't go that far.

The thing is that type of show in the long run will hurt NXT.


----------



## RainmakerV2

EMGESP said:


> So what were the numbers?
> 
> Nevermind, so AEW only lost by 23K viewers and still won the key demo. So even when Vince loads NXT with tons of Main Roster stars they can't win key demo, lol. People at AEW should be very happy.


Tons? Who?


----------



## Soul Rex

rbl85 said:


> Who gives a shit ?
> TNT
> 
> If AEW needs to beat RAW for you to be happy then i guess you're going to unhappy for a couple of years and maybe forever.


Fine then, I don't really understand how can people settle with just them going over WWE's developmental brand and talk about it as it was a big shit.

This show has way more potential than that, even if it takes some time.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

So NXT barely won overall with all those main rosters stars being on the show. They couldn't even win in any important demos? That's fantastic. :lol Things continue to look good for AEW.


----------



## rbl85

Soul Rex said:


> Fine then, I don't really understand how can people settle with just them going over WWE's developmental brand and talk about it as it was a big shit.
> 
> This show has way more potential than that, even if it takes some time.


Nobody is saying that beating NXT is the end game but it will take a lot of time for AEW to grow his audience.

The more important thing right now for AEW is to please TNT.
Because happy TNT = bigger deal.


----------



## imthegame19

Soul Rex said:


> Who gives a shit about demos, I won't be happy with Dynamite viewership until they beat Raw.
> 
> Fuck seeing NXT as competition, that's lowering yourself, that whole brand doesn't have any power value, its just a glorified developmental territory with a few main stars doing cameo appearances.



Then you aren't going to be happy for at least a year or two lol. It's gonna take time for AEW to build itself up. 


As for AEW vs NXT roster let's take away Moxley, Jericho and even Cody. You could have found the rest of AEW and NXT roster on same indie shows the past 2-3 years. It takes time for fans to buy into such a large roster of wrestlers they don't know. 


While fans been watching Raw and Smackdown wrestlers on tv for years and years. So unfortunately roster wise AEW is on NXT level. Yes because they do have Jericho, Moxley and Cody. AEW does feel like a bigger deal. Which is why AEW doing better in the ratings. Even after WWE put Finn Balor on NXT. But it's gonna take a while of AEW having great shows and building up more stars/names before their announce is going to grow. Which is why they are on par with NXT, since AEW is a still a start up company that's only like 11 months old lol.


----------



## RapShepard

looper007 said:


> When they had to throw the main roster and promote it huge on Raw and Smackdown. I take that as AEW is clearly rattling them lol. If you are a AEW fan it's victory, they couldn't beat them in all the demos besides the over 50's and AEW still finished inside the top 10 shows, all more important for TV execs. And NXT can't go to that well of main eventers too much longer cause it will dry up with the over 50's.
> 
> AS Meltzer said AEW will come out of this looking the more happier.


It's not bad at all as I've consistently stated AEW is doing more than fine. But this "key demo thing" and "the main roster" sounds like excuses folk are throwing out because they can't go "suck it vince" again this week. I mean we all have historic proof that when WWE was actually killing it in the key demo sponsors and advertisers didn't care, and didn't until they went kid friendly. So it's not even clear now AEW can really benefit as much as they reasonably should. Then what happens if WWE decided to move some main roster guys down permanently like Balor, is that unfair.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So from what I see AEW still did very well despite WWE's little boost. 

Cool. AEW is still doing good. All I need to know.


----------



## TheGreatBanana

If you look at my posts I’ve berated AEW ratings, this week though I found it funny. It took WWE to heavily promote NXT on its marquee show, RAW, to finally beat AEW by a mere 20k viewers. I just found it pathetic on WWEs behalf and how they stacked the show by having so main event talent appear. It’s weak. You have to give credit to AEW, they still held up. Jericho was right in how they’ll have Reigns appear, have Hogan do studio wrestling again just to beat AEW. Instead they brought in Rollins and Becky. I was laughing my head off at the “Rollins not cool” chant.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Nobody is saying that beating NXT is the end game but it will take a lot of time for AEW to grow his audience.
> 
> The more important thing right now for AEW is to please TNT.
> Because happy TNT = bigger deal.


Yep beating NXT isn't the end game is the beginning. Yes AEW might not win every week(won't lose every week either). If WWE keeps putting top stars from Raw on. But as is AEW is going to win most weeks. With hopefully the ratings grow near Raw levels in a few years. Then AEW can get a big tv deal like WWE did. Fans just have crazy expectations that a start up company 11 months old can compete with Raw/Smackdown when they been on tv 20-26 years. That was never going to happen overnight. The goal was for AEW to be a successful show on its own. While continuing to do good ppv buys and selling a lot of tickets. It's doing all that.


----------



## RapShepard

Death Rider said:


> It is not excuses. It is facts. It took wwe putting their main roster on the show and hhh ending raw with a "watch nxt please " promo to do it. Yeah nxt won but I think nxt should be more worried that they did not win by more.


It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.


----------



## llj

Individually, main roster stars aren't draws of more than 10s of thousands at this point. Cumulatively, they may be in the 100s of thousands, with the brand being the main draw.

As seen by the 23k difference bump despite having RAW's TOP stars on NXT, this is proof WWE stars are really not much of a needle mover. A real star, like The Rock, was able to move a million viewers or more to tune in.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

*8-0**(in the demo.)* :bryanlol


----------



## deadcool

rbl85 said:


> They just have to continue what they're doing.
> 
> *NXT will not put 30 main roster wrestlers on every show*.


Right, but my point is that if they were to compete with RAW or Smackdown, then they would be going against the same people who beat them (or legends/part timers who can potentially score more than AEW in the ratings).


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.


Duck.


----------



## Stevieg786

Ok I’m a ratings noob 

Can someone explain to me what ‘overrun’ means? I keep seeing ‘TNT should give aew overrun so they can kill NXT’ and ‘NXT only did they them numbers because of the over run’

Also are both hours of NXT on USA or just 1? If the latter, the first or the second hour?


----------



## rbl85

deadcool said:


> Right, but my point is that if they were to compete with RAW or Smackdown, then they would be going against the same people who beat them (or legends/part timers who can potentially score more than AEW in the ratings).


There is a reason why they didn't want to be on monday or friday.


----------



## Saintpat

RapShepard said:


> It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.


I don’t even get the ‘WWE brought people from their main roster’ thing. Isn’t this AEW’s main roster?


----------



## Best Bout Machine

Stevieg786 said:


> Ok I’m a ratings noob
> 
> Can someone explain to me what ‘overrun’ means? I keep seeing ‘TNT should give aew overrun so they can kill NXT’ and ‘NXT only did they them numbers because of the over run’
> 
> Also are both hours of NXT on USA or just 1? If the latter, the first or the second hour?


Overrun means the show continues for a few minutes past the hour, 10 pm in this case. Both hours of NXT are on USA.


----------



## rbl85

Stevieg786 said:


> Ok I’m a ratings noob
> 
> Can someone explain to me what ‘overrun’ means? I keep seeing ‘TNT should give aew overrun so they can kill NXT’ and ‘NXT only did they them numbers because of the over run’
> 
> Also are both hours of NXT on USA or just 1? If the latter, the first or the second hour?


When AEW end, NXT still have 10 min of TV.

A good amount of people watch those 10min when AEW is over. 

Last week NXT won 15K viewers overall because of the overrun.


----------



## Stevieg786

Best Bout Machine said:


> Overrun means the show continues for a few minutes past the hour, 10 pm in this case. Both hours of NXT are on USA.



Thanks 

Why is the over run so important for ratings?

Why does NXT get a overrun but AEW can’t?


----------



## llj

Saintpat said:


> I don’t even get the ‘WWE brought people from their main roster’ thing. Isn’t this AEW’s main roster?


They didn't just bring main roster people, they brought the TOP TWO stars on RAW, the two people who have been promoted and marketed heavily throughout the world as WWE's FOTC for the last 7-8 months. 

AEW's main roster is made up of 1 big aging former WWE legend (Jericho), a disgruntled former WWE champion who was never ever anointed as "The Guy" (Moxley) and a couple of indie guys and no-namers without the same reach or marketing power as WWE has.

So no, it's not a good victory for NXT at all.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

RapShepard said:


> It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.


It's a hollow victory though, sure they won but the resources required to do it are so astronomical that it can't be repeated long-term. It's like if, on release, WB had gloated that BvS DOJ beaten the then most recent MCU movie; it _did_ but the most recent MCU movie at the time was Antman so was that really a win?


----------



## Saintpat

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I hear dentists are doing some really cool shit with preventative care these days. Millions of people are doing that too, you should try it.


Don’t you go trying to blame Britt Baker for this!


----------



## Taroostyles

Saintpat said:


> I don’t even get the ‘WWE brought people from their main roster’ thing. Isn’t this AEW’s main roster?


So you're saying a company that just got tv 6 weeks ago should be beating an established monopoly and a television giant with more than 25 years in primetime tv? 

Come on people, stop the nonsense. That's like saying the XFL should outdraw the NFL right out of the gate, how insane does that sound?


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp;amp;amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



Saintpat said:


> I don’t even get the ‘WWE brought people from their main roster’ thing. Isn’t this AEW’s main roster?


For me personally I don't think it's far to treat NXT like developmental anymore due to them going live and 2 hours. What I don't get is when @The Wood was saying that "WWE hadn't even really went all in on promoting NXT" it was widely dismissed as AEW hater trolling. But now folk are actually using "well WWE really promoted the fuck out of it and put some big names on the show that's the only reason they won" as a knock.



Thumbinthebum said:


> It's a hollow victory though, sure they won but the resources required to do it are so astronomical that it can't be repeated long-term. It's like if, on release, WB had gloated that BvS DOJ beaten the then most recent MCU movie; it _did_ but the most recent MCU movie at the time was Antman so was that really a win?


It's not hollow at all though. They used resources they already had on payroll. They used the shows they already had to promote it and they used the talent they already have to appear. It's not like a Saudi situation where they had to bust out the checkbook to have folk appear. AEW is doing more than fine for 8 weeks of TV. They've won 7 of the 8 weeks, no need to go to the book of excuses for a loss that was so small.


----------



## Mifune Jackson

A win’s a win, so now we know what it takes for more people to watch NXT over AEW, and it’s a thing that they can’t do every week.

AEW still held up amazingly strong with competition and will likely beat NXT again next week unless Survivor Series gives NXT a post-PPV bump.


----------



## looper007

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp;amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



RapShepard said:


> For me personally I don't think it's far to treat NXT like developmental anymore due to them going live and 2 hours. What I don't get is when @The Wood was saying that "WWE hadn't even really went all in on promoting NXT" it was widely dismissed as AEW hater trolling. But now folk are actually using "well WWE really promoted the fuck out of it and put some big names on the show that's the only reason they won" as a knock.


Well isn't true that they threw the kitchen sink at it then lol. God Rap I like you, but you sometimes I want to put you on ignore with crap like this. To Defend Woody, on the list you go.


----------



## llj

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp;amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



looper007 said:


> Well isn't true that they threw the kitchen sink at it then lol. God Rap I like you, but you sometimes I want to put you on ignore with crap like this.


I think you have me on ignore already, so you won't read this. But Rap has always been someone who's been very forgiving/defensive of the WWE.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: AEW TV Ratings, PPV Buys &amp;amp; Ticket Sales Thread: LET'S GO CRAZY! LET'S GET NUTS!*



looper007 said:


> Well isn't true that they threw the kitchen sink at it then lol. God Rap I like you, but you sometimes I want to put you on ignore with crap like this. To Defend Woody, on the list you go.


Yeah they certainly threw the kitchen sink at it, but so what lol. It's essentially complaining that they tried really hard. It's least defending him and more pointing out the hypocrisy. People can't mock his point of "they haven't put all their effort in" when NXT is losing to AEW, then go "well they put in all this effort so it doesn't really count" when NXT loses. 

As far as ignore lists, do what you got to do.


----------



## Jedah

Oh well, I suppose the streak had to be broken some time. But the controversy really comes down to how you define "victory."

Did WWE really "win" last night? In one sense, you can say they did. But there's different levels of warfare, appropriate for this "war." There's the tactical (the individual battlefield), operational (campaigns), and strategic (the overall war at the highest level).

Since it had more viewers, I guess you can say WWE won on the tactical level - last night's battlefield.

But from further up the ladder, you see that it took them going all out with two of their biggest names, a whole bunch of other main roster people and "dream" matches, and an overrun, and yet they STILL only won by 23,000. Moreover, AEW held its ground coming close to 900K anyway. It's not even AEW's second worst week.

Most importantly, WWE STILL lost in the demo, the thing that actually brings in the bulk of the money in the TV entertainment business. That's your strategic level right there, the key to the war. AEW still won.

It's a bit like the German spring offensives in 1918. Tactically, they were successful. They took a lot of ground, the Allies got nervous, but they ultimately brought Germany no closer to victory because it was dearly bought with men and resources that could no longer be replaced, and there was no wider goal. In months, they lost the war.

Obviously that's imperfect since WWE is nowhere close to collapse (yet), but they put a lot of resources into this and had a disappointing result that really brings no greater advantage. Does anyone expect to see NXT winning every week, especially since they used a strategy that can't always be replicated and wore off a lot of novelty in doing so?

Not me. WWE is nowhere close to defeating AEW.


----------



## Taroostyles

Hotshotting things and changing your fundamental fiber is not good in the long run. Last night's NXT show was very good, but it didnt really feel like NXT. Dynamite was just a normal episode that didnt even have a really huge angle coming out of it either. 

Next week they have Jericho in a world title match, 2 of their most well known stars facing each other in a PPV rematch, MJFs 1st singles match since the turn, and Cody's return and 1st Dynamite match since the premiere. 

What is NXT going to counter with? Nothing unless they are going full on with having Raw and SD on the show every week from now on.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, Drew McIntyre, Shinsuke Nakamura Ricochet, Cesaro, The Revival, Nikki Cross, Carmella and Kairi Sane

Those were all of the people that came to NXT last night. While it's not fair to say that's the entire roster, that's 2 legit main eventers in Rollins and Becky and 3 upper mid carders in Drew, Shunsuke and Ricochet. Some mid level guys in Cesaro and The Revival showed up as well.

I mean, that's not the entire roster, but fuck, any brand getting that kind of a jolt is going to see a ratings bump, now weather or not it's sustainable is a different question, but initially a big bump is going to happen.


----------



## looper007

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, Drew McIntyre, Shinsuke Nakamura Ricochet, Cesaro, The Revival, Nikki Cross, Carmella and Kairi Sane
> 
> Those were all of the people that came to NXT last night. While it's not fair to say that's the entire roster, that's 2 legit main eventers in Rollins and Becky and 3 upper mid carders in Drew, Shunsuke and Ricochet. Some mid level guys in Cesaro and The Revival showed up as well.
> 
> I mean, that's not the entire roster, but fuck, any brand getting that kind of a jolt is going to see a ratings bump, now weather or not it's sustainable is a different question, but initially a big bump is going to happen.


Throw in a invasion.

Could you imagine a NJPW invasion of AEW, you know die hard wrestling fans would tune in for that. Anything invasion get's wrestling fans hard lol.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

looper007 said:


> Throw in a invasion.
> 
> Could you imagine a NJPW invasion of AEW, you know die hard wrestling fans would tune in for that. Anything invasion get's wrestling fans hard lol.


For real, if fucking Okada, Ibushi, Naito, Tanahashi and Jay White just showed up to AEW, that would cause a ratings bump too. No one even knows who the fuck they are in the west compared to Rollins and Becky, but invasions always draw, and I have faith AEW could do an invasion way better than WWE.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, Drew McIntyre, Shinsuke Nakamura Ricochet, Cesaro, The Revival, Nikki Cross, Carmella and Kairi Sane
> 
> Those were all of the people that came to NXT last night. While it's not fair to say that's the entire roster, that's 2 legit main eventers in Rollins and Becky and 3 upper mid carders in Drew, Shunsuke and Ricochet. Some mid level guys in Cesaro and The Revival showed up as well.
> 
> I mean, that's not the entire roster, but fuck, any brand getting that kind of a jolt is going to see a ratings bump, now weather or not it's sustainable is a different question, but initially a big bump is going to happen.


So a bunch of midcarding jobbers and two proven main event failures. Thats what constitutes a "full roster " and a "ton" of main roster "stars?" Im not saying it. The worshipping fanboys in here are.


----------



## MarkOfAllMarks

I think everyone should be rooting for AEW to destroy NXT in ratings. Just the thought of Vince or Triple H celebrating that they beat AEW in ratings, it angers me...


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

> For the first time since the Wednesday Night head-to-head battle started, WWE won the night on 11/20 with overall viewership although realistically if someone would be shook up by the results, it should be WWE.
> 
> WWE pushed hard open doors, implying and in fact delivering that Raw and Smackdown stars would augment the show, with the implication the biggest stars would be there.
> 
> The result, on a night with the Democratic debates drawing huge cable numbers, wrestling held up far better than the NBA (down 60 percent from the same night last year without the debate), NXT did 916,000 viewers (1.26 viewers per home) and AEW did 893,000 viewers (1.40 viewers per home). Head-to-head was slightly closer at 906,000 for NXT not including the overrun. For the first time, AEW did fall slightly behind Raw and Smackdown in viewers per home, but AEW did remain with the youngest skewing audience of weekly shows.
> 
> AEW also won with every under-50 demo, and in fact, won every single quarter in under-50 demos.
> 
> Still, NXT took a lot of the younger AEW audience for the week by bringing in the stars. The NXT median viewer age dropped to 49.9 years old from 52.2 last week, while AEW aged from 42.0 to a median viewer being 44.9.
> 
> 52 percent of the NXT viewership was over the age of 50 as compared to 34 percent for AEW.
> 
> NXT won the first three quarters overall and five of eight. The segments with Chris Jericho and Jon Moxley gave AEW wins, and it is notable that Moxley vs. Darby Allin beat the head-to-head Adam Cole vs. Dominik Dijakovic ladder match with 899,000 to 821,000.
> 
> As expected, NXT’s high point was the ending of Becky Lynch vs. Rhea Ripley and the post-match women’s brawl, as well as Ricochet vs. Matt Riddle and another post-match brawl, at 1,072,000 viewers. AEW’s peak was 1,004,000 for the Chris Jericho and Scorpio Sky angle.
> 
> WWE throwing main rosters stars absolutely hurt AEW 12 to 34 viewership, even though AEW still won the quarters and they declined significantly in those demos.
> 
> The good news for AEW is that even with the debate and WWE sending a slew of top names over, AEW at 893,000 would indicate a steadying pattern and that 900,000 or so feels like the current base, because this was a strong night of competition on television, and the strongest competition from WWE to date. So the key point is the weekly bleeding of viewers, which had pretty much been a pattern up until two weeks ago, looks to have ended. And the current level is a success.
> 
> For WWE, it does show that they can send the biggest stars over and improve numbers and win, but it’s only squeaking and can only win with viewers over 50. There’s no guarantee if that gimmick runs its course they would continue to win overall, and can’t win in the key demo. Whether they will continue to send top stars weekly is a question. Paul Levesque said that after Survivor Series the talent would be brand exclusive once again. But time will tell because Raw & Smackdown stars are the only way it seems NXT can compete, at least unless they move to larger arenas and improve production. It was also a show where AEW purposely kept Cody off to build for next week, as well as kept Kenny Omega off except for a short promo.
> 
> In the key 18-49 demo, AEW fell to 0.39, trailing the debates on MSNBC, the NBA on ESPN and lost the second hour to MTV War of the World’s Challenge. NXT did a 0.30.
> 
> Overall, AEW did a 0.16 in 12-17 (down 33.3 percent), 0.25 in 18-34 (down 26.5 percent), 0.53 in 35-49 (up 1.4 percent) and 0.29 in 50+ (identical to last week). The audience was 66.7 percent male in 18-49 and 61.5 percent male in 12-17.
> 
> NXT did a 0.13 in 12-17 (up 18.2 percent), 0.19 in 18-34 (up 18.8 percent), 0.41 in 35-49 (up 20.6 percent) and 0.40 in 50+ (up 14.3 percent). The audience was 63.9 percent male in 18-49 and 61.1 percent male in 12-17.
> 
> In the segment-by-segment, AEW opened with Nick Jackson vs. Rey Fenix and did 912,000 viewers and 498,000 in 18-49. NXT opened with a Becky Lynch promo and Lynch vs. Rhea Ripley, doing 1,047,000 viewers and 430,000 in 18-49.
> 
> In many ways this segment is key regarding the viewership trends. Historically ratings are all about name value and star power. Whether Becky Lynch is the biggest star in WWE or not right now is arguable, but she has regularly pulled Raw’s best numbers. It was also her first interbrand match. Nick Jackson vs. Fenix was a cold match with no build, and had exactly one thing going for it, a lot of the audience expected it would be an incredible match. The fact it solidly won under 50 says that to the younger demo, and really this is the first evidence of something like this head-to-head, that is enough to beat out a far bigger star in an interbrand match. This battle saw AEW win with teenagers 25,000 to 14,000; in 18-34 at 186,000 to 138,000, in 35-49 by 312,000 to 292,000 but lose in over 50 by 554,000 to 340,000. Not surprisingly, Lynch did win with women at 69,000 in 18-34 and 124,000 in 35-49 while AEW did 62,000 and 102,000 respectively. So the men were 124,000 in 18-34 to 69,000 in favor of AEW, and 35-49 were 210,000 to 168,000.
> 
> The second segment saw AEW with Britt Baker vs. Hikaru Shida do 862,000 viewers, a loss of 50,000, and 472,000 in the key demo, a loss of 26,000. NXT had the end of Lynch vs. Ripley, an interbrand brawl, Ricochet vs. Matt Riddle and another interbrand brawl. It did 1,072,000 viewers for the peak, an increase of 25,000, and 450,000 in the key demo, an increase of 20,000. Even though NXT skews heavily post-50, the gains here were young, but still you had a far stronger star power hour losing in the key demo to Baker vs. Shida.
> 
> The third segment saw AEW with the Dark Order and beginning of the Battle Royal doing 875,000 viewers, a gain of 13,000, and 497,000 in 18-49, a gain of 25,000 (meaning older losses). NXT did 918,000 for the beginning of Bobby Fish & Kyle O’Reilly vs. The Revival, a loss of 154,000 viewers. It also did 387,000 in 18-49, a loss of 63,000. The idea of a great match means a great deal to the AEW younger audience, but to the NXT older audience, what also promised to be a great match lost even in the younger demo, but heavily in the older demo.
> 
> The fourth segment for AEW was the end of the Battle Royal and the beginning of the Chris Jericho interview, which did 973,000 viewers, an increase of 98,000. It did 556,000 in 18-49, an increase of 59,000. NXT had the bulk of Fish & O’Reilly vs. Revival, which did 851,000 viewers, a drop of 67,000, and 369,000 in 18-49, a drop of 18,000. In this case with all viewers, the star interview segment both with old and young beat the great match.
> 
> The fifth segment for AEW was the Jericho interview, SCU coming out, the post match brawl and Luchasaurus vs. Peter Avalon, which did 1,004,000 viewers, a gain of 21,000. In 18-49, it did 582,000, a gain of 26,000. For NXT, it was the end of Fish & O’Reilly vs. Revival and beginning of Dakota Kai vs. Kay Lee Ray, which did 828,000 viewers, a drop of 23,000 overall. In 18-49, it fell to 363,000 viewers, drop of 6,000. Again there was a slower bit of movement, but still more movement for Jericho interview taking viewers from the NXT great match.
> 
> The sixth segment for AEW was Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz, which lost 196,000 viewers to 810,000. It also fell to 472,000 in 18-49, a drop of 110,000. For NXT, it was the bulk of Kai vs. Ray and beginning of Viking Raiders vs. Wesley Blake & Steve Cutler. This did 876,000 viewers, gaining 48,000, and 391,000 in 18-49, a gain of 28,000. It’s very clear there was both switching off AEW and switching to NXT here.
> 
> The seventh segment for AEW, the post-match of Private Party vs. Santana & Ortiz, and the Moxley vs. Allin intros, that did 806,000, a drop of 4,000, and 456,000 in 18-49, a drop of 19,000. For NXT, it was 840,000 viewers total, a loss of 36,000 and 362,000 in 18-49, a loss of 28,000.
> 
> AEW’s final segment was Moxley vs. Allin, which did 899,000, an increase of 83,000, and 508,000 in 18-49, an increase of 52,000. NXT did 821,000 for Cole vs Dijakovic in the ladder match, a drop of 19,000, and 359,000 in 18-49, a loss of 3,000.
> 
> The NXT overrun with the ladder match and the last T-shirt brawl gained 229,000 viewers to 1,050,000, but they were mostly older viewers as 18-49 after AEW ended did 447,000 viewers, an increase of 88,000.
> 
> The teenage peak for AEW was Allin vs. Moxley, which gained 30 percent from the prior quarter. The NXT peak, not including the overrun, was for the Viking Raiders vs. Forgotten Sons, which beat AEW 21,000 to 20,000.
> 
> The overrun, largely the AEW audience that transferred to watch the end of NXT was 9,000 teenagers, 6,000 women 18-34, 12,000 women 35-49, 41,000 men 18-34, 35,000 men 35-49 and 120,000 over 50.


Pretty interesting information. Di-sect it how you will.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RainmakerV2 said:


> So a bunch of midcarding jobbers and two proven main event failures. Thats what constitutes a "full roster " and a "ton" of main roster "stars?" Im not saying it. The worshipping fanboys in here are.


Ricochet is probably the #3 star on RAW, Rollins is without a doubt the top male star on RAW, and Becky Lynch is the overall top star in the company who just main evented Mania.

Yeah, they've been losing viewers with them on top, but within the context of people that watch RAW, so to that 2.3 million or so people, they are big stars. You would think that them being on NXT would drive more interest into the show then just a 160k gain.


----------



## RainmakerV2

So much for Private Party connecting with the kids eh. They lost 110,000 to a Blake and Cutler match LMAO.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Best sign for AEW this week is that they grew in viewership at points, previous weeks it was a continual decline throughout the show, but this week they opened at 914k, and peaked at over a million for Jericho and Scorpio Sky.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> The Inbred Goatman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seth Rollins, Becky Lynch, Drew McIntyre, Shinsuke Nakamura Ricochet, Cesaro, The Revival, Nikki Cross, Carmella and Kairi Sane
> 
> Those were all of the people that came to NXT last night. While it's not fair to say that's the entire roster, that's 2 legit main eventers in Rollins and Becky and 3 upper mid carders in Drew, Shunsuke and Ricochet. Some mid level guys in Cesaro and The Revival showed up as well.
> 
> I mean, that's not the entire roster, but fuck, any brand getting that kind of a jolt is going to see a ratings bump, now weather or not it's sustainable is a different question, but initially a big bump is going to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> So a bunch of midcarding jobbers and two proven main event failures. Thats what constitutes a "full roster " and a "ton" of main roster "stars?" Im not saying it. The worshipping fanboys in here are.
Click to expand...

Here is the issue with HOW they won, and it is complex: 

You have Raw and SmackDown taking up 5 hours of television a week. They’ve had 4 weeks to get the audience invested in this Survivor Series matchup, and you take another 2 hours away from NXT, who has nearly as much a diehard following as AEW does, just to showcase more Becky Lynch and Rollins? The NXT fans do not like them, but they were forced to stomach them. And for what purpose? What was gained by having the NXT guys look like countless Main Roster guys at WWE who are forced to sit idly by and collect a check?

How long is that going to be sustainable?

Two things happen here: Vince got his win and lets it go back to a far more organic “war”, or you’re going to have this same “shock fest” TV dull the fans with oversaturation, effectively killing whatever draw Rollins and the like have remaining while turning off your base NXT followers. 

Vince McMahon and HHH made a calculated decision to try and hurt AEW’s ratings. They put out a fucking show months ago to try and kill Fight for the Fallen, which was just a charity event!!! 

We know why they pulled out all of the stops this week, and it had nothing to do with telling a larger story. It was petty, vindictive BS that only McMahon would try. 

And yet, they walked away with only 23k more viewers and lost the target demographic by a much larger percentage. If you’re Vince and HHH, then you simply can not look at those numbers and feel good about your place in the wrestling world. 

8 weeks of prime time television, and AEW has got WWE, excuse me while I throw in some football jargon - AEW has Vince going for it on 4th and 6, calling a flea flicker, sending out the special teams and using the old Statue of Liberty play, etc. 

Or to put it in terms we all know too well, Vince and Hunter won last night with a chair shot while the refs back was turned. You get the win, but you know where the story is evolving.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

RainmakerV2 said:


> So much for Private Party connecting with the kids eh. They lost 110,000 to a Blake and Cutler match LMAO.


Dominick Dijakovic and Adam Cole in a LADDER MATCH lost pretty comfortably to a Darby Allin match too.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Here is the issue with HOW they won, and it is complex:
> 
> You have Raw and SmackDown taking up 5 hours of television a week. They’ve had 4 weeks to get the audience invested in this Survivor Series matchup, and you take another 2 hours away from NXT, who has nearly as much a diehard following as AEW does, just to showcase more Becky Lynch and Rollins? The NXT fans do not like them, but they were forced to stomach them. And for what purpose? What was gained by having the NXT guys look like countless Main Roster guys at WWE who are forced to sit idly by and collect a check?
> 
> How long is that going to be sustainable?
> 
> Two things happen here: Vince got his win and lets it go back to a far more organic “war”, or you’re going to have this same “shock fest” TV dull the fans with oversaturation, effectively killing whatever draw Rollins and the like have remaining while turning off your base NXT followers.
> 
> Vince McMahon and HHH made a calculated decision to try and hurt AEW’s ratings. They put out a fucking show months ago to try and kill Fight for the Fallen, which was just a charity event!!!
> 
> We know why they pulled out all of the stops this week, and it had nothing to do with telling a larger story. It was petty, vindictive BS that only McMahon would try.
> 
> And yet, they walked away with only 23k more viewers and lost the target demographic by a much larger percentage. If you’re Vince and HHH, then you simply can not look at those numbers and feel good about your place in the wrestling world.
> 
> 8 weeks of prime time television, and AEW has got WWE, excuse me while I throw in some football jargon - AEW has Vince going for it on 4th and 6, calling a flea flicker, sending out the special teams and using the old Statue of Liberty play, etc.
> 
> Or to put it in terms we all know too well, Vince and Hunter won last night with a chair shot while the refs back was turned. You get the win, but you know where the story is evolving.


They pulled out all the stops? What? Rollins, Lynch and Drew are all the stops? LMAO. You know what would happen if this was really a "war?" Vince would pay Brock, Taker and Goldberg a mil each to fly to Florida, actually advertise it, win by 500k and laugh about it. That would be all the stops. How the fuck do you say that when Roman, Strowman, Bray, Bryan, Corbin, etc. aren't there?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm reading some of these NXT live event attendance numbers and they are insane, they are having Io Shirai wrestling in front of 150 people what the fuck.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the issue with HOW they won, and it is complex:
> 
> You have Raw and SmackDown taking up 5 hours of television a week. They’ve had 4 weeks to get the audience invested in this Survivor Series matchup, and you take another 2 hours away from NXT, who has nearly as much a diehard following as AEW does, just to showcase more Becky Lynch and Rollins? The NXT fans do not like them, but they were forced to stomach them. And for what purpose? What was gained by having the NXT guys look like countless Main Roster guys at WWE who are forced to sit idly by and collect a check?
> 
> How long is that going to be sustainable?
> 
> Two things happen here: Vince got his win and lets it go back to a far more organic “war”, or you’re going to have this same “shock fest” TV dull the fans with oversaturation, effectively killing whatever draw Rollins and the like have remaining while turning off your base NXT followers.
> 
> Vince McMahon and HHH made a calculated decision to try and hurt AEW’s ratings. They put out a fucking show months ago to try and kill Fight for the Fallen, which was just a charity event!!!
> 
> We know why they pulled out all of the stops this week, and it had nothing to do with telling a larger story. It was petty, vindictive BS that only McMahon would try.
> 
> And yet, they walked away with only 23k more viewers and lost the target demographic by a much larger percentage. If you’re Vince and HHH, then you simply can not look at those numbers and feel good about your place in the wrestling world.
> 
> 8 weeks of prime time television, and AEW has got WWE, excuse me while I throw in some football jargon - AEW has Vince going for it on 4th and 6, calling a flea flicker, sending out the special teams and using the old Statue of Liberty play, etc.
> 
> Or to put it in terms we all know too well, Vince and Hunter won last night with a chair shot while the refs back was turned. You get the win, but you know where the story is evolving.
> 
> 
> 
> They pulled out all the stops? What? Rollins, Lynch and Drew are all the stops? LMAO. You know what would happen if this was really a "war?" Vince would pay Brock, Taker and Goldberg a mil each to fly to Florida, actually advertise it, win by 500k and laugh about it. That would be all the stops. How the fuck do you say that when Roman, Strowman, Bray, Bryan, Corbin, etc. aren't there?
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but that doesn’t change my point: he went to the bag of tricks.

Where does he go from here? He either has to now question Seth Rollins’ ability to draw, or he has to send Reigns, Lesnar, etc. 

How sustainable is that for an organic storyline, man? I’m not being a mark here. I want NXT and AEW to both do well, because they’re both the best shows, week-in and week-out.

Vince shit the bed and reached for the red button. Where does he go now in order to beat the piss-ant T-Shirt company?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Congrats to NXT, they won one. Glad it happened now -we can pull the plaster off.

I am more a ‘demo’ guy myself - but a ‘win is a win’ - so, i won’t even argue that point 

Looking at the rankings though, the real winner was.........

‘Social responsibility’ - with the massive numbers from the Democratic debate 










Ps> AEW staying quite steady between 800k and 1m is a very good sign. I would say the demo in the debate was more harming to their numbers than anything else

Pps> if you went to the execs of ‘Challenge: War of Worlds’ (number 6) - would they tell you they beat AEW? Or lost to them?

I’ll listen for the answer on the radio


----------



## RBrooks

So, you telling me NXT called the whole damn main roster down there only to barely beat AEW by fucking 23k viewers and get killed in demos anyway? 

:heston


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Fair enough, but that doesn’t change my point: he went to the bag of tricks.
> 
> Where does he go from here? He either has to now question Seth Rollins’ ability to draw, or he has to send Reigns, Lesnar, etc.
> 
> How sustainable is that for an organic storyline, man? I’m not being a mark here. I want NXT and AEW to both do well, because they’re both the best shows, week-in and week-out.
> 
> Vince shit the bed and reached for the red button. Where does he go now in order to beat the piss-ant T-Shirt company?


He's not trying to beat them. If he was, he would do what I just said. There is no war here. You guys are all working yourselves into something that isnt there.

NXT is there for three reasons. 

1. Chunk AEWs viewership. Done. Imagine if only 300 or 400k out of those 900k only had AEW to watch. Imagine AEW having 1.4 million as a consistent number.

2. Feed Uncle Hunters ego. Oh boy is it.

3. Give USA top 20 live programming for fairly cheap. Done.

Its cool that all the anti WWE zealots come in here every week and cum when AEW "wins." Thats cool and all. But this is no war. Trust me, when Vince considers it so, you'll know.


----------



## Jonhern

birthday_massacre said:


> And 23k is like one person with a Neilson box lol


It's a few people watching the whole show live essentially snice it's average viewership. Idk what Nielsons margin of error is but that is likely within it because it's so small.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RBrooks said:


> So, you telling me NXT called the whole damn main roster down there only to barely beat AEW by fucking 23k viewers and get killed in demos anyway?
> 
> :heston


Thats..not what happened at all.


----------



## RBrooks

RainmakerV2 said:


> Thats..not what happened at all.


That's what I saw in that ratings table above. I'm not an expert or anything, and frankly I don't care much, but that's what I saw there. Maybe I'm wrong, if you care to explain, I'll listen ?


----------



## RainmakerV2

RBrooks said:


> That's what I saw in that ratings table above. I'm not an expert or anything, and frankly I don't care much, but that's what I saw there. Maybe I'm wrong, if you care to explain, I'll listen ?


Uh, if you consider Becky Lunch and a bunch of midcarders to jobbers the "whole roster"..You'd be wrong.


----------



## Saintpat

Taroostyles said:


> So you're saying a company that just got tv 6 weeks ago should be beating an established monopoly and a television giant with more than 25 years in primetime tv?
> 
> Come on people, stop the nonsense. That's like saying the XFL should outdraw the NFL right out of the gate, how insane does that sound?


NXT hasn’t been an established television giant. That’s what they’re going up against.

And new companies put TV shows on all the time that do well in the ratings. I mean, what had the Simpsons production company done before it arrived? Or the Duck Dynasty thing a few years ago?

(BTW, WWE is not a monopoly. ROH has been on TV. NJPW has a television presence in the U.S. TNA has been around for years. Not to mention indies all over the place. Monopoly doesn’t mean dominant company in a market, it means a company that has zero competition — ‘exclusive possession’ by definition ... like your local power company doesn’t have several smaller power companies you can go to if you don’t want to do business with them.) 

Also, where did I say either should be beating the other?


----------



## Chan Hung

A PG Attitude said:


> Pathetic stuff by WWE. Equivalent of using a cheat code on a video game


Cheap tactic , yes. But, smart on them. They acknowledge fully that they dont want AEW to catch too much steam and after this Sunday if they go back to just the standard NXT roster there ratings will shrink. They moved the needle since they sent a ton of main roster guys. They also chance the possible loss of some fans if they aren't careful with oversaturation of main roster on their niche show.


----------



## RBrooks

RainmakerV2 said:


> Uh, if you consider Becky Lunch and a bunch of midcarders to jobbers the "whole roster"..You'd be wrong.


I see. Well, Trips on RAW I think said something among the lines of "we're welcoming you to NXT", so they kinda promoted a big confrontation. Yes, not everybody was there, but Becky was there, Seth was there, and these are big names, whether we want to admit it or not. You'd think with people knowing they could be there, more people would watch. 

I guess the main takeaway of this all is more than a million people watch Raw and SD purely out of habit, because they don't really care who's on top. Imagine doing that with your free time.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

RBrooks said:


> So, you telling me NXT called the whole damn main roster down there only to barely beat AEW by fucking 23k viewers and get killed in demos anyway?
> 
> :heston


Exactly. They'll get crushed again next week when they don't bring the whole main roster down.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

AEW still won imo. 

NXT was a mixed show with the supposed top faces of the company Becky and Seth and barely won in viewershiper and still lost in demo. Thats kinda sad and worry some they have zero star power in WWE. nobody is drawing.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Chris Jericho once again did a great quarter hour with someone that's a relative no name. Last week he did a big number with MJF, this week with Scorpio Sky.

He is getting the rest of the roster over like hell. Best investment AEW has had. 

Here's something else interesting to note, Darby Allin, in his main event title match with Jericho on Week 3 LOST 180k viewers, but this week, he GAINED 83k with Moxley. You can point to Moxley's star power for that, and it's fair, but I'd also argue Darby is becoming more of a name to the casuals because they've actually done a good job building him up.

This is how you get people over, initially, introducing new characters may lose viewers because they are unknowns, but as people become exposed to them, they start shifting the pendulum the other way.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough, but that doesn’t change my point: he went to the bag of tricks.
> 
> Where does he go from here? He either has to now question Seth Rollins’ ability to draw, or he has to send Reigns, Lesnar, etc.
> 
> How sustainable is that for an organic storyline, man? I’m not being a mark here. I want NXT and AEW to both do well, because they’re both the best shows, week-in and week-out.
> 
> Vince shit the bed and reached for the red button. Where does he go now in order to beat the piss-ant T-Shirt company?
> 
> 
> 
> He's not trying to beat them. If he was, he would do what I just said. There is no war here. You guys are all working yourselves into something that isnt there.
> 
> NXT is there for three reasons.
> 
> 1. Chunk AEWs viewership. Done. Imagine if only 300 or 400k out of those 900k only had AEW to watch. Imagine AEW having 1.4 million as a consistent number.
> 
> 2. Feed Uncle Hunters ego. Oh boy is it.
> 
> 3. Give USA top 20 live programming for fairly cheap. Done.
> 
> Its cool that all the anti WWE zealots come in here every week and cum when AEW "wins." Thats cool and all. But this is no war. Trust me, when Vince considers it so, you'll know.
Click to expand...

So, you’re the LONE WOLF that thinks WWE, Vince, and HHH did all of this expecting to win by a mere 23k views? 

You can’t really buy that, can you?


----------



## Jonhern

Psychosocial said:


> I got a question. If demo is what determines who wins each week and not viewership, then did WCW really beat WWE 83 weeks in a row back then? They did on viewership, but what about demo? If they lost on demo some weeks but everyone still counts that as an 83 week win, then AEW lost to NXT this week. If they won on demo all 83 weeks, then AEW beat NXT this week. You can't have both.


Back then on cable it was all about viewership unlike broadcast where it was all about the demo. Around 2000-2001 that stated to change and cable networks also started selling demos. With the change in viewing habits with streaming and dvr the demos have only gotten more important. 

This is an old article from that time but it's a good read to see why it matters more. Even mentions tnn dramatic shift from country music channel to entertainment with the acquisition of RAW.

https://www.multichannel.com/news/most-desirable-demo-148416 

"With cable-network penetration now pushing toward 90 percent of all U.S. television households, the weight placed on absolute household eyeballs during the 1980s and 1990s has given way to a more narrowly defined, demographic-oriented focus. Networks now try to convince advertisers that they're reaching viewers that can draw premium CPMs (costs per thousand), and no demographic is more desirable than 18-to-49-year-old adults."

"That's why many network executives place greater weight on demographic breakouts than household ratings—for years, the traditional measuring stick for a network's Nielsen success. To illustrate the power of the demo, Herman noted the success CBS enjoyed in the early 1990s. The broadcaster won the household ratings for several consecutive years, but those triumphs were the equivalent of empty calories. Because so much of the CBS audience was aged 55 or older, Herman said, those ratings never translated into major ad dollars."


"Households are completely meaningless to our business," Siegel said. "We sell demos, and almost every penny that we bring in on the Turner Entertainment Networks comes from our demographic performance—and that's probably true of virtually every other basic-cable network." 


"TNN has used such acquired fare as Star Trek: The Next Generation
and World Wrestling Federation programming to drive 18-to-49-year-olds to its original shows, like Robot Wars
and Fame for 15. Those originals have a distinct demographic appeal, said TNN general manager Diane Robina.Employing programs aimed squarely at the 18-to-49 audience, a channel that was once the country-music driven The Nashville Network was able to increase its viewership within the demo by 94 percent in 2001, compared with 2000. "It's nice to be No. 1 over the total day like Lifetime, but being No. 1 in the demo is the most important thing," Robina said. "Whether it's through acquired series or original programming, our goal is to satisfy our audience."


----------



## Ace

> In many ways this segment is key regarding the viewership trends. Historically ratings are all about name value and star power. Whether Becky Lynch is the biggest star in WWE or not right now is arguable, but she has regularly pulled Raw’s best numbers. It was also her first interbrand match. Nick Jackson vs. Fenix was a cold match with no build, and had exactly one thing going for it, a lot of the audience expected it would be an incredible match. The fact it solidly won under 50 says that to the younger demo, and really this is the first evidence of something like this head-to-head, that is enough to beat out a far bigger star in an interbrand match. This battle saw AEW win with teenagers 25,000 to 14,000; in 18-34 at 186,000 to 138,000, in 35-49 by 312,000 to 292,000 but lose in over 50 by 554,000 to 340,000. Not surprisingly, Lynch did win with women at 69,000 in 18-34 and 124,000 in 35-49 while AEW did 62,000 and 102,000 respectively. So the men were 124,000 in 18-34 to 69,000 in favor of AEW, and 35-49 were 210,000 to 168,000.


^ So AEW beat them in every demo that matters and only lost in viewership because of the 50 demo :lmao

This is one of their FOTCs getting her ass handed to her by freaking Nick Jackson and Fenix, two tag team wrestlers :heston

Only way this could look worse for WWE is if this was Roman, i.e. the guy they've been pushing for 5 years losing to two tag team wrestlers wrestling a singles match with zero build.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> So, you’re the LONE WOLF that thinks WWE, Vince, and HHH did all of this expecting to win by a mere 23k views?
> 
> You can’t really buy that, can you?


I believe they want to chunk as much of AEWs viewership as possible while not having to pay their big guns, or negotiate with FOX to use their big stars elsewhere, as you havent seen any of their top 5 guys on any other show.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, you’re the LONE WOLF that thinks WWE, Vince, and HHH did all of this expecting to win by a mere 23k views?
> 
> You can’t really buy that, can you?
> 
> 
> 
> I believe they want to chunk as much of AEWs viewership as possible while not having to pay their big guns, or negotiate with FOX to use their big stars elsewhere, as you havent seen any of their top 5 guys on any other show.
Click to expand...

So, did they expect to win the ratings by more than 23k viewers or not, man? Simple question.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Chris Jericho once again did a great quarter hour with someone that's a relative no name. Last week he did a big number with MJF, this week with Scorpio Sky.
> 
> He is getting the rest of the roster over like hell. Best investment AEW has had.
> 
> Here's something else interesting to note, Darby Allin, in his main event title match with Jericho on Week 3 LOST 180k viewers, but this week, he GAINED 83k with Moxley. You can point to Moxley's star power for that, and it's fair, but I'd also argue Darby is becoming more of a name to the casuals because they've actually done a good job building him up.
> 
> This is how you get people over, initially, introducing new characters may lose viewers because they are unknowns, but as people become exposed to them, they start shifting the pendulum the other way.


Exactly, I was listening to WOR tonight and Alverez commented that someone on the boards was calling next week's card PPV worthy, something unimaginable a few weeks ago. Ok, Omega vs Pac would've been fairly big big but Jericho vs Sky? Not a chance, that would've been seen as a likely squash to get El Champion over. This is where AEW are succeeding over WWE and, to show I'm not needlessly throwing shade, here's how WWE used Scorpio Sky


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> So, did they expect to win the ratings by more than 23k viewers or not, man? Simple question.


Considering Im not in a WWE boardroom, I have no idea. Whats more likely, what I said, or Vince sitting there actually sweating about AEW and NOT sending in Lesnar, Reigns. Etc?


----------



## Ace

Most of WWE's audience is old enough to be my grandparents :bjpenn

I never realized how popular WWE is with granddads and grandmothers.

Cannot wait till the dick companies catch on and we see half a dozen viagra ads every commercial break during WWE shows.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, did they expect to win the ratings by more than 23k viewers or not, man? Simple question.
> 
> 
> 
> Considering Im not in a WWE boardroom, I have no idea. Whats more likely, what I said, or Vince sitting there actually sweating about AEW and NOT sending in Lesnar, Reigns. Etc?
Click to expand...

What’s more likely: what you said, or what I’ve been hinting at in that he thought the star power of Seth, Becky, etc would be enough to carry HHH’s bastard love-child of an idea over the piss-ant T-Shirt company? 

I don’t doubt that he wasn’t sweating them, because if he was, he’d have sent Reigns, Lesnar, etc. I do believe that he views NXT and AEW as utter garbage, and would almost guarantee that he was fully expecting a much larger viewing audience.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Ace said:


> Most of WWE's audience is old enough to be my grandparents :bjpenn
> 
> I never realized how popular WWE is with granddads and grandmothers.
> 
> Cannot wait till the dick companies catch on and we see half a dozen viagra ads every commercial break during WWE shows.


People that are attached to WWE, they've been watching for decades, and once something becomes habitual for that long, they are less likely to break it.

I highly doubt new 50-60 year olds are discovering WWE programming and thinking "THIS IS SO GREAT I'M A FAN NOW"


----------



## Ace

The Inbred Goatman said:


> People that are attached to WWE, they've been watching for decades, and once something becomes habitual for that long, they are less likely to break it.


 Seeing those demos must be concerning as fuck for WWE. They're seen as uncool to the world and majority of their audience is old and worthless to networks and advertisers. Surely there's a risk of their fan base literally dying out? The average age of their audience is apparently only getting older.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

RainmakerV2 said:


> They pulled out all the stops? What? Rollins, Lynch and Drew are all the stops? LMAO. You know what would happen if this was really a "war?" Vince would pay Brock, Taker and Goldberg a mil each to fly to Florida, actually advertise it, win by 500k and laugh about it. That would be all the stops. How the fuck do you say that when Roman, Strowman, Bray, Bryan, Corbin, etc. aren't there?


oh wow now roman and strowman are the big drews and Corbin too!! LMAO

Becky main evented WM. Seth is the companies top face.

They barely drew shit. And lost the demo. Face it WWEs top superstars draw nothing. They have no star power. Even brock and taker wouldnt bump this shit much. The Brand is dead.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> It's not bad at all as I've consistently stated AEW is doing more than fine. But this "key demo thing" and "the main roster" sounds like excuses folk are throwing out because they can't go "suck it vince" again this week. I mean we all have historic proof that when WWE was actually killing it in the key demo sponsors and advertisers didn't care, and didn't until they went kid friendly. So it's not even clear now AEW can really benefit as much as they reasonably should. Then what happens if WWE decided to move some main roster guys down permanently like Balor, is that unfair.


It is pretty clear thier ads are much like WWE's current ads, not the ads they were getting in the attitude era with stacker 2 and shit sponsers like that. I've said this before, aew is likely benefiting a lot from all the work wwe did to change the perception of wrestling with sponsors over the past 10 years.


----------



## Ace

CenaBoy4Life said:


> oh wow now roman and strowman are the big drews and Corbin too!! LMAO
> 
> Becky main evented WM. Seth is the companies top face.
> 
> They barely drew shit. And lost the demo. Face it WWEs top superstars draw nothing. They have no star power. Even brock and taker wouldnt bump this shit much. The Brand is dead.


 Dude literally the only reason they won on viewership is granddads and grandmas who don't have anything else to do or know what's cool in 2019. Outside dick companies, no one gives a fuck about this demo.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> What’s more likely: what you said, or what I’ve been hinting at in that he thought the star power of Seth, Becky, etc would be enough to carry HHH’s bastard love-child of an idea over the piss-ant T-Shirt company?
> 
> I don’t doubt that he wasn’t sweating them, because if he was, he’d have sent Reigns, Lesnar, etc. I do believe that he views NXT and AEW as utter garbage, and would almost guarantee that he was fully expecting a much larger viewing audience.


Uh, i dont see where Ive ever defended Rollins or Lynch. They both suck and needed to be shipped to the midcard years ago.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I am laughing at the anti-AEW crew acting like WWENXT won the ratings battle. AEW won every single rating category demo except 50+. AEW was 8th NXT was 14th (thought I read earlier it was 12th). https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/wednesday-cable-ratings-november-20-2019/ 

WWE can use everyone from any brand and win overall viewers and still lose demo by nearly a tenth (0.09). Hannity was 12th on cable despite having 4.336M viewers. His show finished with the 3rd overall viewers but 12th overall demo. 

At the very worst it is 7-0-1 AEW. As AEW won the Demo by 30% but lost the overall viewers by 2.5%. WWENXT should have won by several hundred thousand viewers but instead they win by a margin of error despite WWENXT building as a Go Home for 2 separate PPV's this weekend.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I'm curious as to why AEW did such an awful rating week 6, only 822k, and that was with very little competition.

They've bounced back from that pretty hard doing 957k, and 893k the last two weeks, and this week, all things considered was a really good number given NXT competition.


----------



## Saintpat

CMPunkRock316 said:


> I am laughing at the anti-AEW crew acting like WWENXT won the ratings battle. AEW won every single rating category demo except 50+. AEW was 8th NXT was 14th (thought I read earlier it was 12th). https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/wednesday-cable-ratings-november-20-2019/
> 
> WWE can use everyone from any brand and win overall viewers and still lose demo by nearly a tenth (0.09). Hannity was 12th on cable despite having 4.336M viewers. His show finished with the 3rd overall viewers but 12th overall demo.
> 
> At the very worst it is 7-0-1 AEW. As AEW won the Demo by 30% but lost the overall viewers by 2.5%. WWENXT should have won by several hundred thousand viewers but instead they win by a margin of error despite WWENXT building as a Go Home for 2 separate PPV's this weekend.


A few questions, out of curiosity:

1) Who won the demo week by week (or most weeks) during the Monday Night Wars. Because I’ve never heard that discussed.

2) Why was it reported that TNT’s expectations/wishes for Dynamite was 500K viewers, rather than ‘.4 demo’ or whatever?

3) Why is the obsession on WWE ratings still about total viewership? We hear/read week to week from the same source (Meltzer) touting demo for AEW about total viewership going up or down 200,000 or whatever for Raw and SD. I don’t understand ... all of a sudden, because it tips in AEW’s favor, it’s all demo and who cares about the total with them.

4) If AEW had 5M viewers next week but dropped fairly significantly in demo, do you think Meltzer, the people on this message board and on social media would say this is a huge disappointment? What about 10M?


----------



## Saintpat

Ace said:


> Dude literally the only reason they won on viewership is granddads and grandmas who don't have anything else to do or know what's cool in 2019. Outside dick companies, no one gives a fuck about this demo.


Per Meltzer, AEW’s median viewing age this week was 44.9 years old. NXT’s was 49.9.

Those young kids love their AEW.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What’s more likely: what you said, or what I’ve been hinting at in that he thought the star power of Seth, Becky, etc would be enough to carry HHH’s bastard love-child of an idea over the piss-ant T-Shirt company?
> 
> I don’t doubt that he wasn’t sweating them, because if he was, he’d have sent Reigns, Lesnar, etc. I do believe that he views NXT and AEW as utter garbage, and would almost guarantee that he was fully expecting a much larger viewing audience.
> 
> 
> 
> Uh, i dont see where Ive ever defended Rollins or Lynch. They both suck and needed to be shipped to the midcard years ago.
Click to expand...

Has nothing to do with what YOU think, and everything to do with what VINCE thought. 

You don’t think he sent them expecting to win the night by far more than 23k views!?


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Has nothing to do with what YOU think, and everything to do with what VINCE thought.
> 
> You don’t think he sent them expecting to win the night by far more than 23k views!?


Vince is a 71 year old who thinks everything he comes up with is gold. Im sure he thought he would win by 400K since day 1. Whats your point?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Saintpat said:


> A few questions, out of curiosity:
> 
> 1) Who won the demo week by week (or most weeks) during the Monday Night Wars. Because I’ve never heard that discussed.
> 
> 2) Why was it reported that TNT’s expectations/wishes for Dynamite was 500K viewers, rather than ‘.4 demo’ or whatever?
> 
> 3) Why is the obsession on WWE ratings still about total viewership? We hear/read week to week from the same source (Meltzer) touting demo for AEW about total viewership going up or down 200,000 or whatever for Raw and SD. I don’t understand ... all of a sudden, because it tips in AEW’s favor, it’s all demo and who cares about the total with them.
> 
> 4) If AEW had 5M viewers next week but dropped fairly significantly in demo, do you think Meltzer, the people on this message board and on social media would say this is a huge disappointment? What about 10M?


Because stats = lies and lies = stats

Any number can be spun to fit any narrative

It’s like when WWE did those ‘did you know’ blurbs

‘Did you know, wwe was the highest rated cable blah blah blah’ - but when you went into it, it would be demo or overall, or only in that hour or whatever.

In the end, none of it matters really - except for ‘is this company still viable and alive’

In the case of AEW, it is very viable and alive

In the case of NXT, also

This is all just a bit of fun and anecdotal in the end - ‘the business of the business’


----------



## llj

I'm going to guess the WWE thought with Becky, Seth, Nakamura et al they should have cracked 1 million at least, not to mention beat AEW by several 100ks.

I think WWE may be "relieved" they won but they can't be ecstatic at all. You have a bunch of worldwide promoted top current stars versus a startup company with a much more limited reach-- the WWE should have crushed them if they were such big star draws. We have to understand, the WWE poured millions and millions of dollars into pushing Seth and Becky this year into public awareness. Far more than AEW has poured into their entire roster, I'm sure.

They could stick the top RAW titles on Billie Kay and Zack Ryder tomorrow and I guarantee the numbers won't be much different on Mondays than they are currently.

AEW has to be extremely pleased they held out well against the two top promoted stars of the WWE in 2019.

The WWE brand is damaged. Currently, no amount of money they pour into a single wrestler will net them an equivalent return, because people just don't trust the brand anymore.


----------



## Balor fan

A show like nxt with minimal production and money is beating AEW. How the mighty have fallen


----------



## Ace

Saintpat said:


> Per Meltzer, AEW’s median viewing age this week was 44.9 years old. NXT’s was 49.9.
> 
> Those young kids love their AEW.


 AEW kills NXT in the 18-49 demo.

This week NXT's median viewing age was probably higher than that given half their audience was 50+.


----------



## Buhalovski

I still dont understand why they are not gaining more viewers each week. Last weeks show has been amazing, Becky and Seth aint a reason to switch the channel.


----------



## domotime2

fucking asinine. I'm getting to the point where i'm getting MAD at WWE fans for supporting this shit. It's SHIT! Brand surpemacy is AWFUL... it doesnt make any sense...they're going to ignore it in 2 weeks... NxT isn't even a thing anymore. It's just the Wednesday WWE show. it's not the indie darling anymore, it's not developmental, it's... ahhhhhh

Dynamtie was great.


----------



## llj

Tsvetoslava said:


> I still dont understand why they are not gaining more viewers each week. Last weeks show has been amazing, Becky and Seth aint a reason to switch the channel.



I think expecting noticeable gains every week is unrealistic. But AEW does seem to have settled into what seems like its regular numbers for now. I think any TRUE gains, if any, won't be noticed for at least a year. They'll probably hover around 800k-900k for the next few months. If they improve, they'll start inching into grabbing 900ks more consistently. If they can hit 1m several times a year or so from now, then there is a long term improvement trend in place.

I'm not exactly sure NXT stole a ton of viewers from AEW this week. These are still the same AEW numbers for the most part we see weekly from them, so it's more likely NXT gained about 100k-200k or so viewers above their usual average (about 700k) from audiences who currently watch Smackdown or RAW.

I honestly think the majority of AEW's base audience just doesn't give a crap about WWE anymore, nor who they are pushing.


----------



## bdon

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has nothing to do with what YOU think, and everything to do with what VINCE thought.
> 
> You don’t think he sent them expecting to win the night by far more than 23k views!?
> 
> 
> 
> Vince is a 71 year old who thinks everything he comes up with is gold. Im sure he thought he would win by 400K since day 1. Whats your point?
Click to expand...

You need to read what I’ve been saying and stop assuming I’m going AEW fanboy.

The point I’m making is the same one I’ve been making from the moment I first posted in this thread: WWE has a problem, and they just shit on NXT to try and beat AEW. Where does NXT go from here? 

Vince, and HHH to a lesser extent, no doubt expected to win by 100s of thousands after throwing those names out there and Hunter begging for viewers to show up Wednesday. Vince has never cared for NXT. 

They’ve got two options now: accept that NXT is going to be slapped around weekly by AEW, which I don’t believe Vince will accept given it took him all of 8 weeks before throwing two of the FOTC onto the show, or option 2, you accept that NXT is no longer NXT and becomes a part of the larger WWE machine where main roster guys can come and go as they please. 

Option 1 would be the correct choice. Option 2 is the death of NXT as it loses the core audience and becomes a part of the bigger machine without the care and passion necessary from Vince. 

As I said, this week was a flea flicker, going for it on 4th and 6, or whatever other football term you want to use. 

In wrestling terms, they just got AEW with the chair shot while the ref wasn’t looking. We know you got the win, but eventually, you’re going to have to come with something of substance. 

NXT is either never going to win the ratings war, or they’re going to be placed in a lose-lose situation that results in its demise.


----------



## SPCDRI

Saintpat said:


> Per Meltzer, AEW’s median viewing age this week was 44.9 years old. NXT’s was 49.9.
> 
> Those young kids love their AEW.


That's because AEW's viewer base is older than being a child, because somebody's professional wrestling exposure isn't going to be AEW, so that skews the average up. 
Then you have the fact that WWE ran off half of its 25-54 audience in the past 5 years. Its Ruthless Aggression, Attitude Era and New Generation/Rock N Wrestling people that are throwing in the towel on WWE shows
and giving AEW a shot. The core of their audience is 25-54, just look at the numbers and crowds. 

NXT has won with 50+ every week. This is WWE's youngest show in median viewershp by close to 10 years but half their audience is still over 50 years old. 

WWE as the flagship, and other shows like TNA/Impact and the "premium indies" like Ring of Honor, PWG, etc, did a terrible job of drawing youth viewers and retaining them for 20 years.
Its a nationwide problem with U.S.A. pro wrestling.


----------



## Sbatenney

Why can't people accept that NXT won this week? As someone has pointed out, no-one ever talked about demos during the Monday Night War just pure viewers if this is the Wednesday Night Wars it should be treated the same. It's not the end of the day for AEW, in fact we all should be happy that both had high rating given how they were losing viewers in general since they both declining this debuting.

I mean if you really want to use rating to show what is better than wouldn't RAW and Smackdown be better than both AEW and NXT by that logic? We all know they aren't, both AEW and NXT are better than them.


----------



## imthegame19

Sbatenney said:


> Why can't people accept that NXT won this week? As someone has pointed out, no-one ever talked about demos during the Monday Night War just pure viewers if this is the Wednesday Night Wars it should be treated the same. It's not the end of the day for AEW, in fact we all should be happy that both had high rating given how they were losing viewers in general since they both declining this debuting.
> 
> I mean if you really want to use rating to show what is better than wouldn't RAW and Smackdown be better than both AEW and NXT by that logic? We all know they aren't, both AEW and NXT are better than them.



I agree that it's no big deal. But ratings are judge differently from Monday Night Wars or even 10 years ago. It use to be total Household numbers. Now they are ranked by 18-49 demo. That's why if you look at Showbuzzdaily site AEW was ranked ahead of NXT still. Total viewers of a show isn't how it's really ranked. Because Ad buyers care more about 18-49 demo then if kids or old people are watching. 


So I agree that even if NXT did more viewers and had better 18-49 demo for one week it doesn't matter. Even if they switched off it wouldn't be a big deal. But truth here is AEW really still won this week where it mattered. Even though more total people watched NXT. Because like you said ratings arent around to judge what is better. They are around for ad buyers and factor in how profitable a show is going to be. Well AEW number from last night is going to get them more ad revenue and make them more money then NXT number. That's only reason why AEW still the winner.


----------



## Danielallen1410

llj said:


> I think expecting noticeable gains every week is unrealistic. But AEW does seem to have settled into what seems like its regular numbers for now. I think any TRUE gains, if any, won't be noticed for at least a year. They'll probably hover around 800k-900k for the next few months. If they improve, they'll start inching into grabbing 900ks more consistently. If they can hit 1m several times a year or so from now, then there is a long term improvement trend in place.
> 
> I'm not exactly sure NXT stole a ton of viewers from AEW this week. These are still the same AEW numbers for the most part we see weekly from them, so it's more likely NXT gained about 100k-200k or so viewers above their usual average (about 700k) from audiences who currently watch Smackdown or RAW.
> 
> I honestly think the majority of AEW's base audience just doesn't give a crap about WWE anymore, nor who they are pushing.


This, I watch aew, nwa and a bit of impact, I tried to watch nxt last night on a stream but I can’t watch anything wwe related, I hate all of it, the production, the promos, it’s just complete shit, I’ve no idea how they are even pulling 2 million for raw.


----------



## .christopher.

Tsvetoslava said:


> I still dont understand why they are not gaining more viewers each week. Last weeks show has been amazing, Becky and Seth aint a reason to switch the channel.


Because wrestling is dead for the most part.

Bar those of us who stuck with it after it's glory years who else is there? They don't make new fans because the interest of the ones willing to give it a shot/return after WWF buying WCW usually go straight to RAW and, in the past decade plus, have probably been put off for good by the WWE's horrible product and their boring top guys in Cena, Reigns, etc, who probably killed any talent they may have found interesting flicking through the channels.

WWE are constantly losing viewers yet AEW aren't really gaining viewers. More and more people are giving up on it.


----------



## shadows123

I really think NXT should back the fuck off and go back to maybe Tuesdays, forget all this killing AEW with your developmental brand.. At the moment they are clearly hurting themselves as well as AEW by splitting the viewers, although its debatable if NXT moved to say Tuesdays and AEW would get higher numbers. That said, clearly NXT for the most part is never going to draw more than what they do now with their strong 50+ demo because they lack the star power by a long shot. Ocassionally, they may get better ratings if they move their main roster here. But come on, you're developmental and you're run like its a developmental, full of wrestlers who are the exact opposite of what Vince wants and likes. You're not going to beat AEW with that consistently. Better option for Triple H would be to swallow his giant ego, neither he nor his brand draws, just back off and do some other day of the week and everybody wins with no one looking bad coming out of it. 

But knowing Triple H and Vince, probably next week, they may have Shawn Michaels and himself in an attempt to boost ratings next :lol


----------



## Lesnar Turtle

Honestly i'm just happy that AEW seems to be stable at 800k+ for now. Thats not a bad baseline at all in 2019, at that level you can still entertain the idea of consistently doing 1m+ in a few months if you just find the right guy and/or angle.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Yo how much of an L is this for WWE? As I said before, WWE fans are creatures of habit. Less than 1 milli. The passion is not there to go out of their way to watch NXT. 

I am somewhat disappointed that AEW lost 100k but it’s 100k and it’ll bounce back next week. WWE can’t have RAW and SD stars at NXT every week. That whole invasion storyline is over this weekend anyway. 

One thing it also shows is that there is potentially an instant win for WWE / AEW. There is an extra 300k viewers approx who are willing to watch wrestling on a Wednesday. Bit more tough for AEW to access them but I hope they can do something.


----------



## LongPig666

Balor fan said:


> A show like nxt with minimal production and money is beating AEW.


How naive. Apart from AEW has a much more consistent viewership through having a more valuable demographic. WWE is having to effectively cross-subsidize one of its brands by using main eventers from its other brands BUT with no real impact. WWE are practically admitting that NXT is of no value to them.



Balor fan said:


> How the mighty have fallen












Yep.


----------



## V-Trigger

RapShepard said:


> It's not bad at all as I've consistently stated AEW is doing more than fine. But this "key demo thing" and "the main roster" sounds like excuses folk are throwing out because they can't go "suck it vince" again this week. I mean we all have historic proof that when WWE was actually killing it in the key demo sponsors and advertisers didn't care, and didn't until they went kid friendly. So it's not even clear now AEW can really benefit as much as they reasonably should. Then what happens if WWE decided to move some main roster guys down permanently like Balor, is that unfair.


TV Execs care about Key demos and that's why the rankings go by the demos, not total viewers. It's not a excuse at all. Please enlight us.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

V-Trigger said:


> TV Execs care about Key demos and that's why the rankings go by the demos, not total viewers. It's not a excuse at all. Please enlight us.


I’ll put the official rankings here again just for shits and giggles

Plus, nobody answered my question about number 6 (below)










if you went to the execs of ‘Challenge: War of Worlds’ (number 6) - would they tell you they beat AEW? Or lost to them?


----------



## Carter84

It's still growing damn where only 7 shows in and there doing good , it's going to be huge but how the hell can you expect it to ever beat wwe with there revenues and advertising money , I'm a fan of AEW there products delivering . Ffs 8th is class after seven eps, so it's making an impact . It's more product of wrestling for us fans to enjoy and I think it's going to be around for a long time . 

Peace .


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is not excuses. It is facts. It took wwe putting their main roster on the show and hhh ending raw with a "watch nxt please " promo to do it. Yeah nxt won but I think nxt should be more worried that they did not win by more.
> 
> 
> 
> It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.
Click to expand...

 this is pathetic coming from you bro I expected better 
This is basic logic and mathematical stuff, if you look at the tv broadcast chart aew is ranked 8th nxt is ranked 14th. Do you know fucking why? 
Because the KEY demo ( whether you like it or not that's the key demo ) is what the ranking is based on.
If wwe with a 15 minutes overrun and everything they have done to push nxt only ain't by a 23k lead and still get murdered in the 18-49 demos then its pathetic, and its worrying for wwe and for the whole wrestling industry that the industry leader cannot draw anything but 50+ years old viewers. 
That means wrestling is dying. 
But those are not "eccuses" they are facts, and they can be backed up, if you dont believe me check the ranking by yourself.
It is also a fact that raw ended with hhh basically begging people to watch, it's a fact that fox raw and all those big names had to be used. You cant expect people to just say "ah great nxt" when the show was barely an nxt show. 

Here is the reality nxt stars arent worth a dime they cant draw even against a start up and the big corporation had to put out almost all the big guns to achieve that pathetic "victory". 

People will cry about "booo it's not fair to nxt" but I dont give a fuck, facts dont care about feelings neither does logic. And the facts tell me that nxt won the overall viewership but is still garbage and got its ass kicked in every demo except the 50+ one, and that's sad for them and the industry oversll.
Period


----------



## Moho Hwoarang

*Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*










Classy response as he could've easily said excuses like the main roster invading NXT like some are saying everywhere on the internet.


----------



## ellthom

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Best response... after all its a marathon not a sprint, NxT have 1 point, AEW have 8. I love both shows so its all wins for me. 

Also I love that Cody has baby Yoda has his avatar :lmao


----------



## bdon

I’m glad he took the high road, but the truth is that he won the demos he needed to win.


----------



## Major24

It's weird because AEW won every demo except 50+, barely lost in total viewing and the overrun that NXT does have them the "win".

So it was probably tough for him not to mention any of that in his response. AEW should have an overrun time


----------



## CM Buck

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

All this is showing me is WWE fans are as stupid as a multi generation inbreeder. You could just feel the absolute arrogance in that one fucking tweet. Good on Cody for being professional cause it would have been so hard for me


----------



## LIL' WINNING FOOT

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

The professional response there. Despite winning the demos where it is most important, it can't be denied NXT won the overall viewership.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Who is most influenced by commercials? 50+ or 18-50s?


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

He should have said

"It's a marathon not a sprint"

:lol


----------



## Necrolust

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Cody staying classy, that’s the way to do it.


----------



## RBrooks

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Shouldn't even respond to that loser with Roman Reigns avatar. That guy obviously likes things being shoved down his throat, why even bother with him. 

And next week, is Triple H going to say the same thing, or will he post another marathon, not a sprint comment lol?


----------



## RiverFenix

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Overboard really. It's one week, very close still, a go home show before a Takeover and Survivor Series, with what Vince sees as his two biggest acts in Rollins and Lynch. Basically the kitchen sink. 

Just ignore the trolls.


----------



## Freelancer

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Cody being a total professional in response to a WWE kool aid drinking mark. The fact that Roman is his avatar is all you need to know.

AEW won every other week and WWE had to pull out all the stops to barely beat them.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

He didn't need to say anything else. Everybody already knows they sent their whole main roster down and barely won. Even the blind WWE sheep should be able to see that it's not exactly a victory.


----------



## Balor fan

LongPig666 said:


> How naive. Apart from AEW has a much more consistent viewership through having a more valuable demographic. WWE is having to effectively cross-subsidize one of its brands by using main eventers from its other brands BUT with no real impact. *WWE are practically admitting that NXT is of no value to them.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.


Lol. USA pays WWE more money for NXT than TNT does for AEW.

Also NXT makes more profit because of low production costs. 

Its naïve to believe that AEW is kicking NXT's ass when the reality is otherwise. I want AEW to succeed but denial is not the right direction. Anyways Cody has admitted to losing and will try to get back up which is the right direction imo


----------



## Death Rider

Balor fan said:


> A show like nxt with minimal production and money is beating AEW. How the mighty have fallen


Nxt is a loss leader. It is not made with minimal money. And since this week they had people on the show from the main roster I doubt they are making minimal money lol


----------



## greasykid1

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

I think the entire concept of this being a ratings war is absolutely ridiculous.

Perhaps it's because, being outside of America, I'm more aware of the streaming side of both shows, and they actually don't air at the same same time for me. But that is true of all markets. There's no WWF/WCW element to this where you're choosing to watch one OR the other.

I have to think that most people are watching one live, and DVR'ing or streaming the other at their leisure. And honestly, the one they're watching live is probably decided by which has the less annoying number of adverts during the broadcast.

Ratings wars in 2019 are totally irrelevant - apart from when it comes to renewing TV deals, as the only people that still think ratings - in a world where everything is available to stream whenever you like - still matter are the dinosaur TV executives trying to persuade companies to use their platform.


----------



## JustAName

Justin Edible said:


> I think you have reading comprehension issues.
> 
> AEW wanted over a million.
> 
> This is a marathon not a sprint, and with AEW's numbers dwindling week after week its only a matter of time before theyre below TNT's expectation.


Gee I wonder how you got the Moron tag


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.


And the funny thing is that you read here in this sub forum, that Jericho, MJF, Cody are all bigger than anyone in WWE. But now it is the "anti draws" Becky and Seth, who are too big for AEW? There is always a way AEW fans can spin their story so they are right.


----------



## rbl85

This week the first segment of AEW did 912k
The first segment of NXT did 1.072M (Becky match + the brawl)

That means that AEW lost only 19k viewers between the start of the show and the end of the show
NXT lost 157K viewers between the start and the finish of the show.

The highest rated segment for NXT was the Becky match + the big brawl. (1.072M)
The highest rated segment for AEW was the Jericho interview, SCU coming out, the post match brawl and Luchasaurus vs. Peter Avalon, which did 1,004,000 viewers (+119K)

The lowest rated segment for NXT was the Revival vs UE (drop of 221K)
The lowest rated segment for AEW was like a predicted the PP vs PnP match (drop of 196K) not a good week for the tag teams divisions.

The main event of NXT, Cole vs Dijakovic lost 19k viewers (821k overall without the overrun)
The main event of AEW Moxley vs Darby gained 83K viewers (899K overall)


----------



## reyfan

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Surprised he would even bother replying to be honest, that being said the ratings for NXT/AEW are going to flip flop alot so unless there is a 6 month trend of 1 show doing better then you can't gauge the success.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

So, Jericho is a bigger draw than Becky and Mox continues to be a huge draw.


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is excuses though, AEW has won 7-1 but the time NXT wins people are crying foul because WWE used their resources. "Oh they used the big names they have on their payroll" and " oh they told people to watch the show". That's being a sore loser. AEW is likely to win again next week, but are folk going to go "well they only won because WWE decided not to put their biggest stars and tell folk to watch this week" no nobody is going to say that.
> 
> 
> 
> And the funny thing is that you read here in this sub forum, that Jericho, MJF, Cody are all bigger than anyone in WWE. But now it is the "anti draws" Becky and Seth, who are too big for AEW? There is always a way AEW fans can spin their story so they are right.
Click to expand...

Cody, Jericho, and Moxley are all over more than most of the WWE roster, but the fact remains that “AEW” is not the same draw as the name “WWE”. The machine behind the WWE roster will always be a draw at the box office, because when people think “wrestling”, that’s the name that is and has been synonymous with wrestling for the last 20 years. 

To dismiss that is crazy. To dismiss the fact that fans react more, one way or another, to MJF/Cody/Jericho/Moxley would also be crazy. WWE just went to the UK, and the crowd sat quietly during their once a year chance to see these supposed WWE “superstars”.


----------



## imthegame19

Balor fan said:


> Lol. USA pays WWE more money for NXT than TNT does for AEW.
> 
> Also NXT makes more profit because of low production costs.
> 
> Its naïve to believe that AEW is kicking NXT's ass when the reality is otherwise. I want AEW to succeed but denial is not the right direction. Anyways Cody has admitted to losing and will try to get back up which is the right direction imo


Yes NXT might bring in slightly more viewers when they have 10 plus Raw superstars on before a big ppv and still will lose were it counts in demos. Also your theory is only correct right now. Since AEW is doing so much better in 18-49 demos in the ratings. 



AEW is going to be getting paid more for their ad time. That combined with ticket sales(which is difference in production cost) will make AEW more profitable very soon. That's why the ratings and demos are very important. I'm not saying total viewers don't matter. But they matter less then the demos. Overall AEW is usually top 3-5 in the demo and top 5-8 in viewers for non news show when special events like debates aren't happening. That makes them a show in demand with ad buyers. 


If NXT says where they are at this weeks number it would be good for them too. But when you look at the breakdowns they are clearly getting a boost for all the Raw people on the show. So realistically unless something changes they will likely fall back on .2 demos and 700,000 something viewers.


----------



## RainmakerV2

bdon said:


> Cody, Jericho, and Moxley are all over more than most of the WWE roster, but the fact remains that “AEW” is not the same draw as the name “WWE”. The machine behind the WWE roster will always be a draw at the box office, because when people think “wrestling”, that’s the name that is and has been synonymous with wrestling for the last 20 years.
> 
> To dismiss that is crazy. To dismiss the fact that fans react more, one way or another, to MJF/Cody/Jericho/Moxley would also be crazy. WWE just went to the UK, and the crowd sat quietly during their once a year chance to see these supposed WWE “superstars”.


They werent quiet at all. WWE always tones down the UK crowds.


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Cody getting antagonised by the "anti-smark" WWE-Tards and keeping it classy.
Good man.
The best of it is, these anti-smarks are the same ones that have done NOTHING but shit on NXT and everything it stands for since 2013, but they are not championing it because Cody and AEW has them all triggered.
Fucking idiots man.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> Cody, Jericho, and Moxley are all over more than most of the WWE roster, but the fact remains that “AEW” is not the same draw as the name “WWE”. The machine behind the WWE roster will always be a draw at the box office, because when people think “wrestling”, that’s the name that is and has been synonymous with wrestling for the last 20 years.
> 
> To dismiss that is crazy. To dismiss the fact that fans react more, one way or another, to MJF/Cody/Jericho/Moxley would also be crazy. WWE just went to the UK, and the crowd sat quietly during their once a year chance to see these supposed WWE “superstars”.


I dont talk about "most of the roster", people in here say "ALL the roster". Now NXT beat them at least in the total viewership it is "filling the house with all your superstars" bla bla. And if the brand would draw so much, it would be a bigger gap, when these "superstars" get sent to NXT, but it is (said here alot) just the viewers who watch out of habit.

All I was saying is, when things run in AEW fans direction everyone is small and AEW is better in every aspect of wrestling. When AEW doesnt get what they want there are always excuses. World series, NBA, NXT doing bad things. It is the just laughable. 

When they win they beat WWE and make AEW bigger than them. When they lose AEW is just a startup who got fucked by someone who is cheating. All I was pointing out.


----------



## Black Metal

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

Rantings and ravings about ratings means NOTHING to me. That's just asking for validation as a fan.

I like and watch both. Like and watch what you want, who gives a fuck. Why does it matter?


----------



## Geeee

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



ScottishPsychopath said:


> Cody getting antagonised by the "anti-smark" WWE-Tards and keeping it classy.
> Good man.
> The best of it is, these anti-smarks are the same ones that have done NOTHING but shit on NXT and everything it stands for since 2013, but they are not championing it because Cody and AEW has them all triggered.
> Fucking idiots man.


I'm sure that the original tweet was from a kid. So, it's hard for me to get too fired up about it. 

Anyway, AEW still did decent ratings, so it doesn't really matter what NXT did. It's not like AEW is threatening to put the WWE out of business. Wouldn't be much of a war if the other side didn't win sometimes.


----------



## RapShepard

V-Trigger said:


> TV Execs care about Key demos and that's why the rankings go by the demos, not total viewers. It's not a excuse at all. Please enlight us.


It is an excuse. 



patpat said:


> this is pathetic coming from you bro I expected better
> This is basic logic and mathematical stuff, if you look at the tv broadcast chart aew is ranked 8th nxt is ranked 14th. Do you know fucking why?
> Because the KEY demo ( whether you like it or not that's the key demo ) is what the ranking is based on.
> If wwe with a 15 minutes overrun and everything they have done to push nxt only ain't by a 23k lead and still get murdered in the 18-49 demos then its pathetic, and its worrying for wwe and for the whole wrestling industry that the industry leader cannot draw anything but 50+ years old viewers.
> That means wrestling is dying.
> But those are not "eccuses" they are facts, and they can be backed up, if you dont believe me check the ranking by yourself.
> It is also a fact that raw ended with hhh basically begging people to watch, it's a fact that fox raw and all those big names had to be used. You cant expect people to just say "ah great nxt" when the show was barely an nxt show.
> 
> Here is the reality nxt stars arent worth a dime they cant draw even against a start up and the big corporation had to put out almost all the big guns to achieve that pathetic "victory".
> 
> People will cry about "booo it's not fair to nxt" but I dont give a fuck, facts dont care about feelings neither does logic. And the facts tell me that nxt won the overall viewership but is still garbage and got its ass kicked in every demo except the 50+ one, and that's sad for them and the industry oversll.
> Period


No pathetic is all the whining about how they promoted the show so heavy and had all the stars out. I mean is AEW begging people to watch when every week they announce the card for the upcoming show? Or are they just being smart fucking promoters. 

Pathetic is how none of this "TV Execs care about the key demo bro" talk is ever present when it's a positive speaking point on WWE like why they got such TV deals. This is just some folk being sore losers trying to carve out an excuse for why they didn't really lose. 

It just furthers goes into this pattern of "well they would've done better if" excuses, anytime their good ratings aren't deemed good enough. Folk talk about the AEW haters expect too much from them ratings wise, but so do the fans of the show. The show is 8 weeks old, consistently in the top 5 or bare minimum 10 every week. It's consistently beating a WWE produced show every week. Like what fucking more do y'all want from the show? A show doing this well weekly shouldn't be surrounded by excuses every week "oh up against baseball", "oh up against basketball", oh "Vince being an asshole putting a show on Wednesday and using his stars". 

Tbh it really just comes of like some had higher expectations about what AEW would do, and are actually disappointed in the ratings. But hey at least they can clown NXT for doing worse right lol


----------



## ScottishPsychopath

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



Geeee said:


> I'm sure that the original tweet was from a kid. So, it's hard for me to get too fired up about it.
> 
> Anyway, AEW still did decent ratings, so it doesn't really matter what NXT did. It's not like AEW is threatening to put the WWE out of business. Wouldn't be much of a war if the other side didn't win sometimes.



AEW are zero threat to WWE at all. And anyone with eyes and a brain can see this
What they are is a very good alternative to a dreadful WWE product that still does relatively well in the grand scheme of things due to it's previous greatness. 
Despite how dreadful they are, WWE aren't going anywhere fast.
AEW are never going to put WWE out of business but they are much easier to watch at present TBH


----------



## 304418

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

AEW losing this week is a good thing, actually. It allows them to take a step back and analyze what’s working and what isn’t, and what they could be doing differently so that the show formula is better.

AEW usually top NXT in the ratings and will probably be back on top next week and hit a million views now that its known what NXT can do.


----------



## Geeee

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



greasykid1 said:


> I think the entire concept of this being a ratings war is absolutely ridiculous.
> 
> Perhaps it's because, being outside of America, I'm more aware of the streaming side of both shows, and they actually don't air at the same same time for me. But that is true of all markets. There's no WWF/WCW element to this where you're choosing to watch one OR the other.
> 
> I have to think that most people are watching one live, and DVR'ing or streaming the other at their leisure. And honestly, the one they're watching live is probably decided by which has the less annoying number of adverts during the broadcast.
> 
> Ratings wars in 2019 are totally irrelevant - apart from when it comes to renewing TV deals, as the only people that still think ratings - in a world where everything is available to stream whenever you like - still matter are the dinosaur TV executives trying to persuade companies to use their platform.


I think it's just fun and nostalgic to think of it as a Wednesday night war.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't watch NXT. I like NXT's format a lot but it's pointless to get invested in any of their talent. Signed, someone who got invested in Sami Zayn


----------



## lesenfanteribles

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

That guy should have just been ignored.


----------



## Geeee

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

BTW I don't understand why anyone would try to spin WWE loading up NXT as a negative. It's great for fans of that show.

Next week's Dynamite is stacked too.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



Geeee said:


> BTW I don't understand why anyone would try to spin WWE loading up NXT as a negative. It's great for fans of that show.
> 
> Next week's Dynamite is stacked too.


Because people are being sore losers plain and simple. They have 3 rosters and are currently heading to a PPV where the theme the last few years has been brand warfare. Them not having the roster interact would be bad storytelling.


----------



## rbl85

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



Geeee said:


> BTW I don't understand why anyone would try to spin WWE loading up NXT as a negative. *It's great for fans of that show.
> *
> Next week's Dynamite is stacked too.


From what i saw it's 50/50 

A lot of fans of NXT (fans for a long time) said that it didn't feel like an NXT show.

An episode like that once in while is good but they don't want every épisodes to be like that.


----------



## LongPig666

Balor fan said:


> Its naïve to believe that AEW is kicking NXT's ass when the reality is otherwise. I want AEW to succeed but denial is not the right direction. Anyways Cody has admitted to losing and will try to get back up which is the right direction imo


I never said that AEW was kicking NXT's ass. What I'm saying is that AEW have produced something and a consistent amount of people are watching it weekly, and it is in-line with their original plan and expectations for a company that has just started. All this despite NXT.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> It is an excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> No pathetic is all the whining about how they promoted the show so heavy and had all the stars out. I mean is AEW begging people to watch when every week they announce the card for the upcoming show? Or are they just being smart fucking promoters.
> 
> Pathetic is how none of this "TV Execs care about the key demo bro" talk is ever present when it's a positive speaking point on WWE like why they got such TV deals. This is just some folk being sore losers trying to carve out an excuse for why they didn't really lose.
> 
> It just furthers goes into this pattern of "well they would've done better if" excuses, anytime their good ratings aren't deemed good enough. Folk talk about the AEW haters expect too much from them ratings wise, but so do the fans of the show. The show is 8 weeks old, consistently in the top 5 or bare minimum 10 every week. It's consistently beating a WWE produced show every week. Like what fucking more do y'all want from the show? A show doing this well weekly shouldn't be surrounded by excuses every week "oh up against baseball", "oh up against basketball", oh "Vince being an asshole putting a show on Wednesday and using his stars".
> 
> Tbh it really just comes of like some had higher expectations about what AEW would do, and are actually disappointed in the ratings. But hey at least they can clown NXT for doing worse right lol


This 100%. Remember a lot of fans were saying VVince is in trouble and AEW has a real shot due to the declining ratings and a max exodus. So i'm sure some expected closer to Raw numbers and that's why excusing come out every week when they cant sniff 1m. 

Easier to focus on NXT numbers than to wonder why the rating has only gone up ONCE on a week to week basis for 7 weeks straight.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> This 100%. Remember a lot of fans were saying VVince is in trouble and AEW has a real shot due to the declining ratings and a max exodus. So i'm sure some expected closer to Raw numbers and that's why excusing come out every week when they cant sniff 1m.
> 
> 
> 
> Easier to focus on NXT numbers than to wonder why the rating has only gone up ONCE on a week to week basis for 7 weeks straight.


I'm in the camp of the show is doing well ratings wise. But yeah I think there's probably something to folk expecting better. I think some maybe thought there was a lot more people looking for an alternative. Because even when they smoke NXT there's some excuse going around amongst the celebration.


----------



## Death Rider

RainmakerV2 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cody, Jericho, and Moxley are all over more than most of the WWE roster, but the fact remains that “AEW” is not the same draw as the name “WWE”. The machine behind the WWE roster will always be a draw at the box office, because when people think “wrestling”, that’s the name that is and has been synonymous with wrestling for the last 20 years.
> 
> To dismiss that is crazy. To dismiss the fact that fans react more, one way or another, to MJF/Cody/Jericho/Moxley would also be crazy. WWE just went to the UK, and the crowd sat quietly during their once a year chance to see these supposed WWE “superstars”.
> 
> 
> 
> They werent quiet at all. WWE always tones down the UK crowds.
Click to expand...

Yeah the uk crowd were edited massively so it is hard to judge what they were like unless you were there live.


----------



## A-C-P

RapShepard said:


> It is an excuse.


It's really not an excuse though, there is a reason on the chart AEW is listed at #8 and NXT is listed as #14 for the night :draper2

8 > 14

Not that this really matters at all. The real story is AEW increased viewers over last week, with alot of their big names off the show and up against the most stacked NXT show to date. Like I said before not sure how anyone wouldn't consider this week a big win for AEW on the ratings front.

Its not a loss for NXT either, they got what they wanted by stacking their show as well.


----------



## rbl85

At the end of the day, the fans who really care about the ratings is a tiny sample of the overall fanbase.

I'm pretty sure that not even 10% of the people who watch AEW or NXT care about the ratings.


----------



## Garty

Deleted post.


----------



## RapShepard

A-C-P said:


> It's really not an excuse though, there is a reason on the chart AEW is listed at #8 and NXT is listed as #14 for the night :draper2
> 
> 8 > 14
> 
> Not that this really matters at all. The real story is AEW increased viewers over last week, with alot of their big names off the show and up against the most stacked NXT show to date. Like I said before not sure how anyone wouldn't consider this week a big win for AEW on the ratings front.
> 
> Its not a loss for NXT either, they got what they wanted by stacking their show as well.


Nah it's excuses because key demos is only brought up when it can prop up AEW. Raw consistently does well in the demo on Monday nights. Them doing well in the demo is never an actual talking point in the Raw thread, total viewers and how it's going down is the only talking point. It feels like folk are clinging to key demo because they can boost that more people chose to watch AEW again. 

But it really and mostly comes off as excuses because folk are actually complaining that WWE dared to promote the show and dared to actually properly build up their brand warfare PPV. I will concede this though it feels like a presidential thing of electoral college vs popular vote lol. 

And yes the talking point really should be that AEW is proving to be a hit for TNT and wrestling fans.


----------



## A-C-P

RapShepard said:


> Nah it's excuses because key demos is only brought up when it can prop up AEW. Raw consistently does well in the demo on Monday nights. Them doing well in the demo is never an actual talking point in the Raw thread, total viewers and how it's going down is the only talking point. It feels like folk are clinging to key demo because they can boost that more people chose to watch AEW again.
> 
> But it really and mostly comes off as excuses because folk are actually complaining that WWE dared to promote the show and dared to actually properly build up their brand warfare PPV. I will concede this *though it feels like a presidential thing of electoral college vs popular vote lol. *
> 
> And yes the talking point really should be that AEW is proving to be a hit for TNT and wrestling fans.


Thats actually a very solid comparison :heston

I understand to some degree the complaining on the NXT have a bunch of Main Roster talent though, and this is just my personal opinion on it here. One of the biggest appeals of NXT to me (outside of that its jsut a good show most of the time) is that its different from the shitshow the Main Roster shows for WWE are (most of time) so by mixing in the Main Roster, NXT loses that appeal some, again for me personally. And I don't want to see it become the norm. But don't want to take the thread here into that tangent.


----------



## patpat

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> So, Jericho is a bigger draw than Becky and Mox continues to be a huge draw.


 no it means becky was the biggest draw on both shows beating even Jericho
Hope the "women don't draw" parade can turn it down now.


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

patpat said:


> no it means becky was the biggest draw on both shows beating even Jericho
> Hope the "women don't draw" parade can turn it down now.


Yep I have misread the numbers lol. Its impressive for Becky to get that number.


----------



## rbl85

patpat said:


> no it means becky was the biggest draw on both shows beating even Jericho
> Hope the "women don't draw" parade can turn it down now.



First segment of the night and people didn't know who was going to open the show.


----------



## RapShepard

A-C-P said:


> Thats actually a very solid comparison :heston
> 
> 
> 
> I understand to some degree the complaining on the NXT have a bunch of Main Roster talent though, and this is just my personal opinion on it here. One of the biggest appeals of NXT to me (outside of that its jsut a good show most of the time) is that its different from the shitshow the Main Roster shows for WWE are (most of time) so by mixing in the Main Roster, NXT loses that appeal some, again for me personally. And I don't want to see it become the norm. But don't want to take the thread here into that tangent.


Now I do get that angle of "hey I don't want Raw and SmackDown mixed with my NXT". But I don't get the angle of it not really being fair or it being kind of cheating. WWE has a roster full of folk that have been seen by millions more than what NXT is doing. It would be silly for them not to try and use some of them to try and possibly boost up NXT especially since NXT is competing with the hot new brand.


----------



## patpat

RapShepard said:


> V-Trigger said:
> 
> 
> 
> TV Execs care about Key demos and that's why the rankings go by the demos, not total viewers. It's not a excuse at all. Please enlight us.
> 
> 
> 
> It is an excuse.
> 
> 
> 
> patpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> this is pathetic coming from you bro I expected better
> This is basic logic and mathematical stuff, if you look at the tv broadcast chart aew is ranked 8th nxt is ranked 14th. Do you know fucking why?
> Because the KEY demo ( whether you like it or not that's the key demo ) is what the ranking is based on.
> If wwe with a 15 minutes overrun and everything they have done to push nxt only ain't by a 23k lead and still get murdered in the 18-49 demos then its pathetic, and its worrying for wwe and for the whole wrestling industry that the industry leader cannot draw anything but 50+ years old viewers.
> That means wrestling is dying.
> But those are not "eccuses" they are facts, and they can be backed up, if you dont believe me check the ranking by yourself.
> It is also a fact that raw ended with hhh basically begging people to watch, it's a fact that fox raw and all those big names had to be used. You cant expect people to just say "ah great nxt" when the show was barely an nxt show.
> 
> Here is the reality nxt stars arent worth a dime they cant draw even against a start up and the big corporation had to put out almost all the big guns to achieve that pathetic "victory".
> 
> People will cry about "booo it's not fair to nxt" but I dont give a fuck, facts dont care about feelings neither does logic. And the facts tell me that nxt won the overall viewership but is still garbage and got its ass kicked in every demo except the 50+ one, and that's sad for them and the industry oversll.
> Period
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No pathetic is all the whining about how they promoted the show so heavy and had all the stars out. I mean is AEW begging people to watch when every week they announce the card for the upcoming show? Or are they just being smart fucking promoters.
> 
> Pathetic is how none of this "TV Execs care about the key demo bro" talk is ever present when it's a positive speaking point on WWE like why they got such TV deals. This is just some folk being sore losers trying to carve out an excuse for why they didn't really lose.
> 
> It just furthers goes into this pattern of "well they would've done better if" excuses, anytime their good ratings aren't deemed good enough. Folk talk about the AEW haters expect too much from them ratings wise, but so do the fans of the show. The show is 8 weeks old, consistently in the top 5 or bare minimum 10 every week. It's consistently beating a WWE produced show every week. Like what fucking more do y'all want from the show? A show doing this well weekly shouldn't be surrounded by excuses every week "oh up against baseball", "oh up against basketball", oh "Vince being an asshole putting a show on Wednesday and using his stars".
> 
> Tbh it really just comes of like some had higher expectations about what AEW would do, and are actually disappointed in the ratings. But hey at least they can clown NXT for doing worse right lol
Click to expand...

 dude someone posted the chart, the ranking is done using the demos. I just went back and since day ONE everyone talked about their demo as a big deal, this idea that demo are brought up only now that nxt won is false. Because every week it's a discussion every take people here talk about it, and how aew double nxt's demo, every week the breakdown of meltzer and Alvarez is focused on the demo

When people come and give logical and factual explanations as to why those numbers for nxt arent half good those aren't excuses those are facts

The main event of wrestlemania, the guy that beat brock lesnar twice and the face of the company + multiple other main roster stars were on a show and beat a start up by only 23k while doing an overrun and lost all the demo except the 50+ one.
Which is worrying because that means wwe in general has a big problem with their demos.
Dave meltzer came to the exact same conclusion based on a detailed analysis of the numbers 
Inb4 "rehh he is on a payroll" too, there are facts and reality, and like I said they font care about personal feelings. They just exist 
And those facts tell that those numbers nxt did are bad. If that was a nxt show with exclusively nxt guys then you could argue that their 3rd brand guys are doing a pretty good job. When you have the stars, the advertising on fox raw an overrun and everything they did and you do those numbers.
Thatz bad period.

And I am not saying it's unfair or cheating, I am not retarded and the "rehhh brand war" is dumb, nxt nor wwe didnt cheat last night, it's not unfair. They just did a poor number despite investing their top main roster guys and hotshotting everything.
That's it


----------



## Saintpat

domotime2 said:


> fucking asinine. I'm getting to the point where i'm getting MAD at WWE fans for supporting this shit. It's SHIT! Brand surpemacy is AWFUL... it doesnt make any sense...they're going to ignore it in 2 weeks... NxT isn't even a thing anymore. It's just the Wednesday WWE show. it's not the indie darling anymore, it's not developmental, it's... ahhhhhh
> 
> Dynamtie was great.


NXT has been pretty great too lately.

I watch both. I’m a wrestling fan, not a wrestling company fan.

I don’t get where you’re coming from — people shouldn’t watch what they like? Or they should only like what you like? You’re playing brand supremacy as much as any “WWE-only” fan.


----------



## AEWMoxley

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> So, Jericho is a bigger draw than Becky and Mox continues to be a huge draw.


Just saw the segment breakdown. 

Where's the person who was saying that no one on the main WWE roster has drawn a lower rated segment than Moxley has since joining AEW? Every WWE "star" last night just drew lower viewership in their segments than Moxley's squash match vs an unknown guy to most people + promo from last week. Most of those WWE guys evidently drew that lower number in the overrun, completely unopposed. On top of that, these WWE guys just drew a lower overall viewership than about 50% of all Dynamite episodes.

And Moxley pulls out another miracle by gaining 83K viewers for a match with Darby Allin, who has lost hundreds of thousands of viewers in his previous matches, including a world title match against Jericho.


----------



## RapShepard

patpat said:


> dude someone posted the chart, the ranking is done using the demos. I just went back and since day ONE everyone talked about their demo as a big deal, this idea that demo are brought up only now that nxt won is false. Because every week it's a discussion every take people here talk about it, and how aew double nxt's demo, every week the breakdown of meltzer and Alvarez is focused on the demo
> 
> When people come and give logical and factual explanations as to why those numbers for nxt arent half good those aren't excuses those are facts
> 
> The main event of wrestlemania, the guy that beat brock lesnar twice and the face of the company + multiple other main roster stars were on a show and beat a start up by only 23k while doing an overrun and lost all the demo except the 50+ one.
> Which is worrying because that means wwe in general has a big problem with their demos.
> Dave meltzer came to the exact same conclusion based on a detailed analysis of the numbers
> Inb4 "rehh he is on a payroll" too, there are facts and reality, and like I said they font care about personal feelings. They just exist
> And those facts tell that those numbers nxt did are bad. If that was a nxt show with exclusively nxt guys then you could argue that their 3rd brand guys are doing a pretty good job. When you have the stars, the advertising on fox raw an overrun and everything they did and you do those numbers.
> Thatz bad period.
> 
> And I am not saying it's unfair or cheating, I am not retarded and the "rehhh brand war" is dumb, nxt nor wwe didnt cheat last night, it's not unfair. They just did a poor number despite investing their top main roster guys and hotshotting everything.
> That's it


I said key demo wasn't a talking point until AEW, not it wasn't a talking point until yesterday. It wasn't a thing with prior ratings wars, it suddenly being the only thing that really matters is silly. The talking point was always overall rating and number of viewers. 

The current NXT roster isn't a bigger draw than AEW, no argument there. But the WWE does have a roster that if they made some changes realistically AEW could have some stiff competition if not end up doing more losing than winning.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Just saw the segment breakdown.
> 
> Where's the person who was saying that no one on the main WWE roster has drawn a lower rated segment than Moxley has since joining AEW? Every WWE "star" last night just drew lower viewership in their segments than Moxley's squash match vs an unknown guy to most people + promo from last week. Most of those WWE guys evidently drew that lower number in the overrun, completely unopposed. On top of that, these WWE guys just drew a lower overall viewership than about 50% of all Dynamite episodes.
> 
> And Moxley pulls out another miracle by gaining 83K viewers for a match with Darby Allin,* who has lost hundreds of thousands of viewers in his previous matches, including a world title match against Jericho.*


Well this week match was way 100 times better than the one with Jéricho.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Just saw the segment breakdown.
> 
> Where's the person who was saying that no one on the main WWE roster has drawn a lower rated segment than Moxley has since joining AEW? Every WWE "star" last night just drew lower viewership in their segments than Moxley's squash match vs an unknown guy to most people + promo from last week. Most of those WWE guys evidently drew that lower number in the overrun, completely unopposed. On top of that, these WWE guys just drew a lower overall viewership than about 50% of all Dynamite episodes.
> 
> And Moxley pulls out another miracle by gaining 83K viewers for a match with Darby Allin, *who has lost hundreds of thousands of viewers in his previous matches, including a world title match against Jericho.*


*
*

Sorry for the double post, i have some problems with the forum.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RapShepard said:


> I'm in the camp of the show is doing well ratings wise. But yeah I think there's probably something to folk expecting better. I think some maybe thought there was a lot more people looking for an alternative. Because even when they smoke NXT there's some excuse going around amongst the celebration.


I agree they are doing very good too. The problem is the whole thing was so hyped up at the beginning with all the bragging about 'instant sellouts', 'ppv buys being better than ufc' & 'prime time tv' that people got caught up in that.

So that's why some of us are pushing back and being harsh (i admit) on AEW numbers to put some perspective into things.


----------



## RapShepard

Dark Emperor said:


> I agree they are doing very good too. The problem is the whole thing was so hyped up at the beginning with all the bragging about 'instant sellouts', 'ppv buys being better than ufc' & 'prime time tv' that people got caught up in that.
> 
> 
> 
> So that's why some of us are pushing back and being harsh (i admit) on AEW numbers to put some perspective into things.


I've said before that was inevitable. When numbers are made such a big deal when they're positive, they're going to be a big deal when they aren't as good.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> I agree they are doing very good too. The problem is the whole thing was so hyped up at the beginning with all the bragging about 'instant sellouts', 'ppv buys being better than ufc' & 'prime time tv' that people got caught up in that.
> 
> So that's why some of us are pushing back and being harsh (i admit) on AEW numbers to put some perspective into things.


Some hardcore fans (and WWE haters) hyped the whole thing way too much, i agree with you.

But AEW didn't really tried to hype anything, nobody from AEW said "we're going to kill the WWE" or "we're going to have 1.5M viewers the first year"

When you listen to Cody, Tony, the Bucks they're not bragging about anything, they're just trying to put the best show possible.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Geeee said:
> 
> 
> 
> BTW I don't understand why anyone would try to spin WWE loading up NXT as a negative. It's great for fans of that show.
> 
> Next week's Dynamite is stacked too.
> 
> 
> 
> Because people are being sore losers plain and simple. They have 3 rosters and are currently heading to a PPV where the theme the last few years has been brand warfare. Them not having the roster interact would be bad storytelling.
Click to expand...

Except they’ve NEVER involved NXT in the SS prior to this year. They never treated NXT as worthy of its own show. They never gave NXT 2 hours. HELL! THEY BROUGHT OUT EVOLVE TO COMBAT A FUCKING CHARITY EVENT, FIGHT FOR THE FALLEN!! 

And a lot of those who consider themselves a diehard fan of NXT, dating back YEARS, feels cheated after watching Wednesday night, because they know Vince never gave a damn about them until it was convenient for him to do so. 

The only way this ends is A) Vince got his win and stops the intermingling and lets NXT take weekly losses, or the more likely scenario B) NXT becomes a part of the larger machine and is invaded by the crappy WWE storylines and booking, which kills the NXT product much like it did ECW.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



Black Metal said:


> Rantings and ravings about ratings means NOTHING to me. That's just asking for validation as a fan.
> 
> I like and watch both. Like and watch what you want, who gives a fuck. Why does it matter?


It kinda means nothing and it kinda means everything

Getting better ratings mean you get more ad money (obvs)

But even more important, in 2 years when your tv deal is up for renegotiation, you can go to other channels and command more money as your base / or get more money from your home channel (ie> fox licensing smackdown)

It also sets bench marks for the type of program you are. Don’t think Fox isn’t closely watching what they paid vs ratings and what tnt is paying vs ratings

All of this leads to more money (or less money - which is what Smackdown will get when it gets renewed) - which importantly leads to being able to hire bigger names with bigger contracts - or more money for the wrestlers

It is nothing.... but it is kinda everything too

Obviously the massive massive missing part is the stuff we don’t see - streaming, dvr, replays, bottom lines

But the ratings is one of the few public windows (no matter how fallible) we have into the business

That is it really - it is just interesting


----------



## bdon

A-C-P said:


> RapShepard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nah it's excuses because key demos is only brought up when it can prop up AEW. Raw consistently does well in the demo on Monday nights. Them doing well in the demo is never an actual talking point in the Raw thread, total viewers and how it's going down is the only talking point. It feels like folk are clinging to key demo because they can boost that more people chose to watch AEW again.
> 
> But it really and mostly comes off as excuses because folk are actually complaining that WWE dared to promote the show and dared to actually properly build up their brand warfare PPV. I will concede this *though it feels like a presidential thing of electoral college vs popular vote lol. *
> 
> And yes the talking point really should be that AEW is proving to be a hit for TNT and wrestling fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats actually a very solid comparison <img src="http://i.imgur.com/m2XjBg7.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Heston" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> I understand to some degree the complaining on the NXT have a bunch of Main Roster talent though, and this is just my personal opinion on it here. *One of the biggest appeals of NXT to me (outside of that its jsut a good show most of the time) is that its different from the shitshow the Main Roster shows for WWE are (most of time) so by mixing in the Main Roster, NXT loses that appeal some*, again for me personally. And I don't want to see it become the norm. But don't want to take the thread here into that tangent.
Click to expand...

All of this!!

NXT has a diehard group of fans, much like AEW. If Vince resorts to weekly Main Roster shenanigans and infecting that show with his Raw/SD atrocities, then he’s going to lose a lot of that hardcore NXT base that shows up wanting to just watch good ol’ “rasslin!”

It’s ECW all over again.


----------



## domotime2

Saintpat said:


> NXT has been pretty great too lately.
> 
> I watch both. I’m a wrestling fan, not a wrestling company fan.
> 
> I don’t get where you’re coming from — people shouldn’t watch what they like? Or they should only like what you like? You’re playing brand supremacy as much as any “WWE-only” fan.


yeah REAL brand supremacy. This is WCW vs WWF.... not WWF's Monday show vs WWF's Wednesday show. 

NxT has totally lost me in kayfabe of what it is. To me, YES it's a really decent WWE wrestling show. If it was the ONLY thing WWE was making...great. Hey, if they got rid of Smackdown, and this was the number 2 thing in WWE...great. But I just don't get it. There's no storyline, other than like, a double murder suicide orgy, that can get me interested in the developmental, but no developmental wednesday show.

I can go on and on about my issues with NxT. With Dynamite, you're getting ONE 2-hour tv show a week. There's ONE title, one tag, one womens. So simple, so easy. Everyone is going after the same thing. Everyone is on the same plain. The goals are the same.


----------



## rbl85

Before saying NXT = ECW, let's just wait and see what they do next week.

For me it was just logic for the WWE to send wrestlers from RAW and SD on NXT because it was the go home show for Survivor Series.

Now i do think that NXT wasn't supposed to be part of Survivor Series this year.


----------



## Saintpat

It is rather ironic that the narrative is “WWE had to use main roster people to beat AEW in ratings” ... when in reality AEW has been using main roster people to beat WWE developmental in ratings up to now.

You can’t tell me Mox, Jericho, Cody and probably even (to a far lesser degree) the Bucks and Omega don’t have bigger name recognition than Adam Cole and some of the other NXT players.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Before saying NXT = ECW, let's just wait and see what they do next week.
> 
> For me it was just logic for the WWE to send wrestlers from RAW and SD on NXT because it was the go home show for Survivor Series.
> 
> Now i do think that NXT wasn't supposed to be part of Survivor Series this year.


So, what should NXT be post-Survivor Series? Not talking next week’s show, but in moving forwards weeks, months, etc: what would it take for you to consider them not becoming Vince’s ECW 2.0?

Because what they did Wednesday night was NOT an NXT show. They did nothing to sell the NXT product. They did nothing to sell WarGames, and to my knowledge, they still haven’t figured out the teams or purpose of the WarGames match. They went, what, over an hour before having a match that didn’t end in a no contest, Raw/Smackdown shenanigan spot fest? 

What should I pay attention to going forward to give me reason to believe they’re not about to become a part of the monstrosity that is Raw/SD and just another watered-down Vince McMahon product?


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> So, what should NXT be post-Survivor Series? Not talking next week’s show, but in moving forwards weeks, months, etc: *what would it take for you to consider them not becoming Vince’s ECW 2.0?*


If WWE continue to send main roster stars without any reason.

There was a reason for those last 3-4 weeks but after Survivor Series there will be no valid reason for them to send main roster stars. (except if it's someone they don't use on the main roster)


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, what should NXT be post-Survivor Series? Not talking next week’s show, but in moving forwards weeks, months, etc: *what would it take for you to consider them not becoming Vince’s ECW 2.0?*
> 
> 
> 
> If WWE continue to send main roster stars without any reason.
> 
> There was a reason for those last 3-4 weeks but after Survivor Series there will be no valid reason for them to send main roster stars. (except if it's someone they don't use on the main roster)
Click to expand...

Fair enough and appreciate the honesty.

Maybe you have more faith, but I don’t trust that this was just a one off thing for Survivor Series. I don’t trust Vince to keep his grubby paws off the NXT product or to allow NXT to take weekly losses to AEW, which SHOULD have been expected from the moment they decided to run head to head.


----------



## Death Rider

patpat said:


> ReekOfAwesomenesss said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, Jericho is a bigger draw than Becky and Mox continues to be a huge draw.
> 
> 
> 
> no it means becky was the biggest draw on both shows beating even Jericho
> Hope the "women don't draw" parade can turn it down now.
Click to expand...

That won't stop those morons lol


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



bdon said:


> *Except they’ve NEVER involved NXT in the SS prior to this year. They never treated NXT as worthy of its own show. They never gave NXT 2 hours. HELL! THEY BROUGHT OUT EVOLVE TO COMBAT A FUCKING CHARITY EVENT, FIGHT FOR THE FALLEN!! *
> 
> And a lot of those who consider themselves a diehard fan of NXT, dating back YEARS, feels cheated after watching Wednesday night, because they know Vince never gave a damn about them until it was convenient for him to do so.
> 
> The only way this ends is A) Vince got his win and stops the intermingling and lets NXT take weekly losses, or the more likely scenario B) NXT becomes a part of the larger machine and is invaded by the crappy WWE storylines and booking, which kills the NXT product much like it did ECW.


 So the fuck what this is just crying that WWE are going full steam ahead about competing with a competitor.

The 2nd and 3rd he cares now is that a bad thing. 3 it's clear NXT is still being ran by HHH so what's to worry about right now.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



RapShepard said:


> Because people are being sore losers plain and simple. They have 3 rosters and are currently heading to a PPV where the theme the last few years has been brand warfare. Them not having the roster interact would be bad storytelling.


Just funny how NXT has been a thing for YEARS and all of a sudden AEW is around and NXT is being featured on Raw & Smackdown, while being put on Survior Series.


----------



## rbl85

Death Rider said:


> That won't stop those morons lol


The problem here is nobody is really honest. 

You can't say that the people watched NXT thanks to Becky because nobody knew that Becky was going to open the show.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> bdon said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Except they’ve NEVER involved NXT in the SS prior to this year. They never treated NXT as worthy of its own show. They never gave NXT 2 hours. HELL! THEY BROUGHT OUT EVOLVE TO COMBAT A FUCKING CHARITY EVENT, FIGHT FOR THE FALLEN!! *
> 
> And a lot of those who consider themselves a diehard fan of NXT, dating back YEARS, feels cheated after watching Wednesday night, because they know Vince never gave a damn about them until it was convenient for him to do so.
> 
> The only way this ends is A) Vince got his win and stops the intermingling and lets NXT take weekly losses, or the more likely scenario B) NXT becomes a part of the larger machine and is invaded by the crappy WWE storylines and booking, which kills the NXT product much like it did ECW.
> 
> 
> 
> So the fuck what this is just crying that WWE are going full steam ahead about competing with a competitor.
> 
> The 2nd and 3rd he cares now is that a bad thing. 3 it's clear NXT is still being ran by HHH so what's to worry about right now.
Click to expand...

So, NXT should just become a larger part of the Main Roster? That will be good for NXT, having Vince infect the show more and more, all but killing what made NXT...NXT?

Because you can’t sit here and tell us with a straight face that they did anything Wednesday to promote NXT and it’s ongoing storylines. That show was not NXT. It was a Raw/SmackDown show.


----------



## RapShepard

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



TKO Wrestling said:


> Just funny how NXT has been a thing for YEARS and all of a sudden AEW is around and NXT is being featured on Raw & Smackdown, while being put on Survior Series.


It's obvious WWE are explicitly trying to compete with AEW head on. But all the crying about it is ridiculous.


----------



## Death Rider

rbl85 said:


> Death Rider said:
> 
> 
> 
> That won't stop those morons lol
> 
> 
> 
> The problem here is nobody is really honest.
> 
> You can't say that the people watched NXT thanks to Becky because nobody knew that Becky was going to open the show.
Click to expand...

Tbh it was obvious becky or someone who is a big name was appearing. I mean becky vs bayley vs shayna has been mostly becky and shayna from what I heard so of course she was appearing.


----------



## Garty

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



TKO Wrestling said:


> Just funny how NXT has been a thing for YEARS and all of a sudden AEW is around and NXT is being featured on Raw & Smackdown, while being put on Survior Series.


As the Librarians would say, "shhhhhhhhhh". AEW doesn't exist and we don't see them as competition.


----------



## The Sheik

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

They should just ignore comments like that, act like they're not concerned with the ratings.. The NXT supershow beating AEW one week means absolutely nothing.


----------



## outsiders96

Would it be worth it for aew to maybe work too get there own night away from wwe if they could?


----------



## rbl85

Death Rider said:


> Tbh it was obvious becky or someone who is a big name was appearing. I mean becky vs bayley vs shayna has been mostly becky and shayna from what I heard so of course she was appearing.


Not but what i mean is that the people who decided to watch NXT didn't do it because of Becky.

Now what we can say is that Becky is not an anti draw.


----------



## rbl85

outsiders96 said:


> Would it be worth it for aew to maybe work too get there own night away from wwe if they could?


They wanted to be on Tuesday but TNT prefered Wednesday


----------



## birthday_massacre

rbl85 said:


> They wanted to be on Tuesday but TNT prefered Wednesday


Doesnt TNT does basketball on Tuesday?>


----------



## A-C-P

birthday_massacre said:


> Doesnt TNT does basketball on Tuesday?>


TNT does basketball Tuesdays and Thursdays. They had nothing on their Wednesday night slots. And AEW didn't want Monday nights or Friday Nights


----------



## birthday_massacre

A-C-P said:


> TNT does basketball Tuesdays and Thursdays. They had nothing on their Wednesday night slots. And AEW didn't want Monday nights or Friday Nights


Yeah that is why I thought they got Wednesday.

Tony didn't want to go against football, so that threw out, Sat. Sunday, and Monday, Thursday too. TNT has basketball on Tue and Thursday So that only left Wed. and on Friday. Like you said they didnt want Friday because of the demo they want to go for goes out on Fridays, plus they knew SD was moving to Friday.

Wed was the perfect slot for them.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

birthday_massacre said:


> Doesnt TNT does basketball on Tuesday?>


They wanted Tuesday so they could grab the people that were watching Smackdown but were left with no Wrestling on Tuesdays after the move to FOX. 

TNT wasn't the only option on the table, once they finalized it with TNT, it became apparent quick that Tuesday would be off the table.


----------



## Dummy_Yeah!

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*

From the beginning it was obvious that out of desperation WWE was going to have it's main roster get invaded by NXT and vice versa when AEW started airing on TV and just that is happening now. As far as NXT beating Dynamite, who cares? 

NXT winning 1 week since AEW debuted on TNT is hardly anything for AEW to be concerned about but as others have said in this thread at least Cody took the high road instead of lashing out. He didn't even have to respond to the troll but he did and gave the right answer, good for him.


----------



## looper007

Saintpat said:


> It is rather ironic that the narrative is “WWE had to use main roster people to beat AEW in ratings” ... when in reality AEW has been using main roster people to beat WWE developmental in ratings up to now.
> 
> You can’t tell me Mox, Jericho, Cody and probably even (to a far lesser degree) the Bucks and Omega don’t have bigger name recognition than Adam Cole and some of the other NXT players.


Big difference is NXT had to bring in guys and gals from their main rosters and throw the kitchen sink at it cause they were clearly not liking taking the beating they were getting. You can spin it as much as you want but WWE needed main roster guys to slightly beat AEW on views, and overall they couldn't beat them in the demo lol.

They didn't beat them in the demo's which is important to TV exces and didn't even finish in top 10 which AEW did lol. They had to throw the kitchen sink at it twice to try and get near AEW, and only beat them by a inch at best. With TWo of their biggest stars on the show, and most of their main roster, let that sink in.

Cody is a classy guy but they shouldn't be answering these WWE marks.


----------



## swagger_ROCKS

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



SayWhatAgain! said:


> He should have said
> 
> "It's a marathon not a sprint"
> 
> :lol


I think Jericho already said that from what I heard.


----------



## Saintpat

looper007 said:


> Big difference is NXT had to bring in guys and gals from their main rosters and throw the kitchen sink at it cause they were clearly not liking taking the beating they were getting. You can spin it as much as you want but WWE needed main roster guys to slightly beat AEW on views, and overall they couldn't beat them in the demo lol.
> 
> They didn't beat them in the demo's which is important to TV exces and didn't even finish in top 10 which AEW did lol. They had to throw the kitchen sink at it twice to try and get near AEW, and only beat them by a inch at best. With TWo of their biggest stars on the show, and most of their main roster, let that sink in.
> 
> Cody is a classy guy but they shouldn't be answering these WWE marks.


And AEW has had its top people on the show every week. So they’ve installed their kitchen sink on Wednesday — and WWE didn’t just move an entire roster over and do a non-NXT show. They brought in a couple of heavy hitters ... and did so because of the angle they’ve been running going into the PPV.

I don’t think AEW should do any chest-thumping over beating WWE’s C show with its own A show and then have its stans whine about it when WWE uses a couple of main-roster people on NXT.


----------



## rbl85

Saintpat said:


> And AEW has had its top people on the show every week. So they’ve installed their kitchen sink on Wednesday — and WWE didn’t just move an entire roster over and do a non-NXT show. They brought in a couple of heavy hitters ... and did so because of the angle they’ve been running going into the PPV.
> 
> *I don’t think AEW should do any chest-thumping* over beating WWE’s C show with its own A show and then have its stans whine about it when WWE uses a couple of main-roster people on NXT.


They're not.

Only the fans of each show does it.


----------



## Chan Hung

Theres the thing for AEW staying on path and consistant. That will pay off. Whereas WWE is in the midst of potentially killing the original gimmick 
of NXT if they continue to have main roster invade. Do they continue main roster invasions to grab cheap ratings and change NXT for something it's not. or keep NXT as is and lose in the ratings?


----------



## Matthew Castillo

rbl85 said:


> I wouldn't go that far.
> 
> The thing is that type of show in the long run will hurt NXT.


If shows like this are the only things that can touch or surpass AEW in the week to week ratings, I expect them to both become more frequent and for a bigger name like Bryan, Reigns, or Styles to become NXT champion as a way to sell it.


----------



## bdon

Saintpat said:


> looper007 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Big difference is NXT had to bring in guys and gals from their main rosters and throw the kitchen sink at it cause they were clearly not liking taking the beating they were getting. You can spin it as much as you want but WWE needed main roster guys to slightly beat AEW on views, and overall they couldn't beat them in the demo lol.
> 
> They didn't beat them in the demo's which is important to TV exces and didn't even finish in top 10 which AEW did lol. They had to throw the kitchen sink at it twice to try and get near AEW, and only beat them by a inch at best. With TWo of their biggest stars on the show, and most of their main roster, let that sink in.
> 
> Cody is a classy guy but they shouldn't be answering these WWE marks.
> 
> 
> 
> And AEW has had its top people on the show every week. So they’ve installed their kitchen sink on Wednesday — and WWE didn’t just move an entire roster over and do a non-NXT show. They brought in a couple of heavy hitters ... and did so because of the angle they’ve been running going into the PPV.
> 
> I don’t think AEW should do any chest-thumping over beating WWE’s C show with its own A show and then have its stans whine about it when WWE uses a couple of main-roster people on NXT.
Click to expand...

It isn’t that WWE did that. It’s that WWE did it NOW, and if you ask any hardcore NXT fan who has been watching for any length of time will tell you, the show was a Raw/SD mash up. The NXT fans do NOT want this to be a regular occurrence. 

For example, the NXT show starts with Becky Lynch. The NXT show continues on this parade of Raw and SmackDown shit that is all a part of selling the Survivor Series, which they have had 20 hours to do this month on THEIR show, but they use NXT to continue that parade of selling SS. At the end of the night, they finally try continuing the NXT storyline and the WarGames match. 

NXT got whored out for the Main Roster. This is what happened to ECW, and we see what happened with it. 

I don’t mind Vince and the WWE using its heavy-hitters, but don’t try and pretend that NXT hasn’t already felt the effects of AEW. Vince has already changed the product to try and stifle the AEW growth. He did an Evolve show during a CHARITY EVENT for crying out loud!!! 

NXT either goes back to being beat weekly by AEW, which we all know Vince isn’t going to accept, or Wednesday is the new norm for NXT, which signifies the death of NXT as everyone knew it. 

And if the latter occurs, the NXT faithful will not be happy.


----------



## headstar

It's not surprising that AEW are losing viewership to NXT. AEW comes off as a cheap knock off of NXT only without the established sacred cow nature. Of course the hardcores are going to chose NXT.

Other wrestling promotions still haven't learned that copying WWE doesn't work.


----------



## rbl85

headstar said:


> It's not surprising that AEW are losing viewership to NXT. AEW comes off as a cheap knock off of NXT only without the established sacred cow nature. Of course the hardcores are going to chose NXT.
> 
> Other wrestling promotions still haven't learned that copying WWE doesn't work.


shhhhhhhhhh it's ok to be a hater shhhhhhhhh


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Now I do get that angle of "hey I don't want Raw and SmackDown mixed with my NXT". But I don't get the angle of it not really being fair or it being kind of cheating. WWE has a roster full of folk that have been seen by millions more than what NXT is doing. It would be silly for them not to try and use some of them to try and possibly boost up NXT especially since NXT is competing with the hot new brand.


I also agree that it's fair. Which kind of the point people are missing and saying "NXT" beat AEW is wrong. WWE RAW SDL AND NXT BEAT AEW. and just barley at that in total viewers and lost in the demo. To say it's unfair is silly. But the point people are missing is AEW is competitive with main roster people. Because when they were just up against the developmental NXT they were killing them. And frankly, as I have been saying that's how it should be, and AEW should be compared to RAW not NXT.


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> I also agree that it's fair. Which kind of the point people are missing and saying "NXT" beat AEW is wrong. WWE RAW SDL AND NXT BEAT AEW. and just barley at that in total viewers and lost in the demo. To say it's unfair is silly. But the point people are missing is AEW is competitive with main roster people. Because when they were just up against the developmental NXT they were killing them. And frankly, as I have been saying that's how it should be, and AEW should be compared to RAW not NXT.


Can't compare it to Raw as the viewership difference is too far ahead due to it being a staple.


----------



## rbl85

In a perfect world, we would compare AEW with RAW in term of ratings and with NXT in terms of shows quality


----------



## PushCrymeTyme

there is no reason to even worry about nxt or wwe ratings.......aew is continuously beating the nba on tnt..........tnt has to be happy about the bargin that aew is........if this continues aew will get a huge contract when negotiations come up


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197989618349559808


----------



## bdon

headstar said:


> It's not surprising that AEW are losing viewership to NXT. AEW comes off as a cheap knock off of NXT only without the established sacred cow nature. Of course the hardcores are going to chose NXT.
> 
> Other wrestling promotions still haven't learned that copying WWE doesn't work.


Wtf are you talking about..?


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> It isn’t that WWE did that. It’s that WWE did it NOW, and if you ask any hardcore NXT fan who has been watching for any length of time will tell you, the show was a Raw/SD mash up. The NXT fans do NOT want this to be a regular occurrence.
> 
> For example, the NXT show starts with Becky Lynch. The NXT show continues on this parade of Raw and SmackDown shit that is all a part of selling the Survivor Series, which they have had 20 hours to do this month on THEIR show, but they use NXT to continue that parade of selling SS. At the end of the night, they finally try continuing the NXT storyline and the WarGames match.
> 
> NXT got whored out for the Main Roster. This is what happened to ECW, and we see what happened with it.
> 
> I don’t mind Vince and the WWE using its heavy-hitters, but don’t try and pretend that NXT hasn’t already felt the effects of AEW. Vince has already changed the product to try and stifle the AEW growth. He did an Evolve show during a CHARITY EVENT for crying out loud!!!
> 
> NXT either goes back to being beat weekly by AEW, which we all know Vince isn’t going to accept, or Wednesday is the new norm for NXT, which signifies the death of NXT as everyone knew it.
> 
> And if the latter occurs, the NXT faithful will not be happy.


Although we agree to disagree on Kenny Omega, this critique is spot on.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Was talking to a big NXT fan tonight (one of my friends) and he said he hates the direction of NXT and he is a diehard NXT'er. I told him to watch AEW and he can DVR NXT or watch it on the network.


----------



## bdon

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Was talking to a big NXT fan tonight (one of my friends) and he said he hates the direction of NXT and he is a diehard NXT'er. I told him to watch AEW and he can DVR NXT or watch it on the network.


Anyone who has given their time to NXT and has been watching for YEARS hates the direction. Ask them what the best match and storyline of the decade is in all of wrestling: Ciampa vs Gargano.

And now, here comes Vince with his shitty writers and his shitty main roster with their cookie cutter, Made-for-Mass-Consumption assembly-lined matches, and he is infecting the product. Wednesday was a special edition of Raw and SmackDown to tell the same, horrible damn storyline that hasn’t got “over” with the WWE faithful enough in 20 some hours of television this month!! 

But hey! NXT got 15-20 minutes of undivided attention to tell the story of NXT Takeover WarGames! The NXT had no significance on their own goddamn show. 

Fuck Vince McMahon, man. I’ve had my friends begging me to watch AEW and not be so steadfast against watching NXT, but Vince has shown in the last 2 weeks why I refuse to give NXT a chance. The minute I’d give them a chance, he’d come in and ruin it. 

And trust me, after years of listening to them talk up NXT, I was finally ready to start watching thanks to AEW breathing life back into my love of the industry. But nah, Vince has to Vince.


----------



## Saintpat

bdon said:


> It isn’t that WWE did that. It’s that WWE did it NOW, and if you ask any hardcore NXT fan who has been watching for any length of time will tell you, the show was a Raw/SD mash up. The NXT fans do NOT want this to be a regular occurrence.
> 
> For example, the NXT show starts with Becky Lynch. The NXT show continues on this parade of Raw and SmackDown shit that is all a part of selling the Survivor Series, which they have had 20 hours to do this month on THEIR show, but they use NXT to continue that parade of selling SS. At the end of the night, they finally try continuing the NXT storyline and the WarGames match.
> 
> NXT got whored out for the Main Roster. This is what happened to ECW, and we see what happened with it.
> 
> I don’t mind Vince and the WWE using its heavy-hitters, but don’t try and pretend that NXT hasn’t already felt the effects of AEW. Vince has already changed the product to try and stifle the AEW growth. He did an Evolve show during a CHARITY EVENT for crying out loud!!!
> 
> NXT either goes back to being beat weekly by AEW, which we all know Vince isn’t going to accept, or Wednesday is the new norm for NXT, which signifies the death of NXT as everyone knew it.
> 
> And if the latter occurs, the NXT faithful will not be happy.


LOL.

Those NXT talent — most of whom were pretty obscure until the brand got actual TV exposure — have been featured on Raw and SD these last several weeks. It’s an angle, for goodness’ sake, leading into a PPV. More people now know who Adam Cole and Keith Lee and many others are now than ever before. I doubt they’re complaining — their show also went from 1 hour (taped) to 2 (live) which means more exposure for NXT talent even when a main roster star or two drops by for an appearance here and there.

You may also have noticed (or maybe not) that the SD and Raw talent who showed up on NXT were in action against NXT stars, again raising the profile of the NXT talent. It’s not like they brought in Kofi to wrestle Seth Rollins on NXT.

As for the charity event, that’s hilarious — every penny raised for charity on that show was from ticket sales for the live gate. WWE showing an Evolve show on its network didn’t hurt the charity cause one bit. Kenny Omega tried crying about that and shut it down once the truth was pointed out. And those Evolve wrestlers got seen by more people than ever before thanks to that opportunity (not that WWE did it out of the good of its heart, but it doesn’t change the fact that they did).

Competition is good for everybody. AEW stans shouldn’t cry about it. This promotion openly positioned itself as an alternative to WWE ... and now it gets to show its alternative off head to head.


----------



## Botchy SinCara

I think everyone is missing the key thing here AEW is trending better with the younger crowd ..that's what you want ..bring in the new fans who will spread it


----------



## Saintpat

Botchy SinCara said:


> I think everyone is missing the key thing here AEW is trending better with the younger crowd ..that's what you want ..bring in the new fans who will spread it


Median age for the latest Dynamite viewer was 44.9. Five years younger than the median WWE viewer. 

Not a lot of rookie-of-the-year candidates watching either.

I went to AEW in Nashville and have been to a number of WWE shows (and ROH and other indie shows for that matter) and here’s what I noticed about the crowd:

AEW was mostly males in the 25-35 range, a few bringing girlfriends or female friends.

WWE has WAY more families attend — father (and mother sometimes) bringing the kids; I don’t think I saw a single kid at AEW.

WWE crowds at shows I’ve been to in the South have been way more diverse ... more people of color. AEW was almost exclusively (like 90-plus percent) white male.

That’s a small sample size but if you look on TV you’ll see that holds pretty true from what we can see of AEW crowds.

What does that mean? Maybe nothing.. But that’s what I noticed.


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Anyone who has given their time to NXT and has been watching for YEARS hates the direction. Ask them what the best match and storyline of the decade is in all of wrestling: Ciampa vs Gargano.
> 
> And now, here comes Vince with his shitty writers and his shitty main roster with their cookie cutter, Made-for-Mass-Consumption assembly-lined matches, and he is infecting the product. Wednesday was a special edition of Raw and SmackDown to tell the same, horrible damn storyline that hasn’t got “over” with the WWE faithful enough in 20 some hours of television this month!!
> 
> But hey! NXT got 15-20 minutes of undivided attention to tell the story of NXT Takeover WarGames! The NXT had no significance on their own goddamn show.
> 
> Fuck Vince McMahon, man. I’ve had my friends begging me to watch AEW and not be so steadfast against watching NXT, but Vince has shown in the last 2 weeks *why I refuse to give NXT a chance*. The minute I’d give them a chance, he’d come in and ruin it.
> 
> And trust me, after years of listening to them talk up NXT, I was finally ready to start watching thanks to AEW breathing life back into my love of the industry. But nah, Vince has to Vince.


Wait you're complaining about the change in quality for show that you don't watch. And most people seem to be enjoying NXT. The narrative that it's changed its identity is false.


----------



## Taroostyles

I dont think the exposure for the talent is bad, it's just not sustainable while still keeping NXT something different than Raw and SD. 

That's what the concern is, especially now that Vince was finally able to eek out a win. Once Sunday comes and goes then they have to go back to being NXT week in and week out. Unless they decide to change the whole format and that is definitely something worth being concerned for.


----------



## imthegame19

PushCrymeTyme said:


> there is no reason to even worry about nxt or wwe ratings.......aew is continuously beating the nba on tnt..........tnt has to be happy about the bargin that aew is........if this continues aew will get a huge contract when negotiations come up
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197989618349559808


This.... it doesn't matter if NXT beats them every week. AEW gotta be one of their highest rated shows and they are getting it way cheaper then NBA.


Fans just are so use to seeing Raw/Smackdown with 2-3 million viewers. So AEW numbers feel small, but you gotta factor in what other shows are doing ratings wise. 


There's a reason why networks were paying WWE billions of dollars for Raw/Smackdown. That's because the rating they do is way higher then most of cable tv. Which is why AEW is still a top rated show at more then half the viewers.


----------



## rbl85

From an economical standpoint the real war for AEW is against the other shows on TNT.


----------



## rbl85

On WOR Omega said that in 2020 theyre going to sign more female wrestlers.

The people who wants AEW or NXT to fail should listen to his interview.

He started to watch NXT and really like the show.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Turner was paying 445 million per year for the NBA through the '15/'16 season but they signed a new deal and now they pay over a billion a year. AEW was a bargain and is out doing them in the ratings.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...als-with-turner-disney-through-2024-25-season


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Can't compare it to Raw as the viewership difference is too far ahead due to it being a staple.


Obviously they are not going to beat them right away, but they are doing very well. As someone else posted tna was doing like a 5th of what wwe was getting. Aew is averaging around 40-50% of viewership and 60% of the demo of RAW. That's a pretty good starting point.


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> Obviously they are not going to beat them right away, but they are doing very well. As someone else posted tna was doing like a 5th of what wwe was getting. Aew is averaging around 40-50% of viewership and 60% of the demo of RAW. That's a pretty good starting point.


The start is great no doubt. I'm interested to see where they are 6 months and a year from now. But I'm really interested if they can produce a must see feud in their first year.


----------



## Saintpat

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Turner was paying 445 million per year for the NBA through the '15/'16 season but they signed a new deal and now they pay over a billion a year. AEW was a bargain and is out doing them in the ratings.
> 
> https://bleacherreport.com/articles...als-with-turner-disney-through-2024-25-season


AEW has been a great bargain for TNT, no doubt. 

And I’m not disputing the overall value, but when comparing whatever they’re paying for AEW vs. NBA, you also have to consider they get more than 2 hours a week of programming with their NBA contract, which also includes playoffs, right?

So TNT is getting more inventory from its NBA deal — you can’t look at one game’s ratings vs. AEW and expect AEW would get the same kind of money from its next re-up with TNT.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Saintpat said:


> Median age for the latest Dynamite viewer was 44.9. Five years younger than the median WWE viewer.


First of all, this is MEDIAN age, not the MEAN age. I think a lot of people are getting this confused when talking about it.

Also, the discrepancy last week was closer, but prior weeks it has been more far apart the weeks prior it was 42 to 52, which is a pretty big difference. Hell, 5 years is a pretty significant difference.

What we do know, is Matt Jackson Vs Ray Fenix, two tag team no names in a singles match beat Becky Lynch's promo, and her singles match in ever demo under 50.


----------



## rbl85

Yes a lot of people who usually don't watch NXT but RAW or SD decided to watch this week.

But quite a lot stopped watching after the first segment.


----------



## birthday_massacre

Saintpat said:


> Median age for the latest Dynamite viewer was 44.9. Five years younger than the median WWE viewer.
> 
> Not a lot of rookie-of-the-year candidates watching either.
> 
> I went to AEW in Nashville and have been to a number of WWE shows (and ROH and other indie shows for that matter) and here’s what I noticed about the crowd:
> 
> AEW was mostly males in the 25-35 range, a few bringing girlfriends or female friends.
> 
> WWE has WAY more families attend — father (and mother sometimes) bringing the kids; I don’t think I saw a single kid at AEW.
> 
> WWE crowds at shows I’ve been to in the South have been way more diverse ... more people of color. AEW was almost exclusively (like 90-plus percent) white male.
> 
> That’s a small sample size but if you look on TV you’ll see that holds pretty true from what we can see of AEW crowds.
> 
> What does that mean? Maybe nothing.. But that’s what I noticed.


No shit LOL WWE is aimed at kids and famies. We already knew this, why do you act like this is some revelation you discovered? AEW is aimed 25-45 year olds.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I noticed how The Revival has been going on on twitter about how they were the reason NXT won, and if they were on NXT every week there wouldn't be a "war". In actuality, The Revival Vs. UE tag match absolutely bombed in the ratings Vs. Chris Jericho and Scorpio Sky.

I know it's just in character talk, but funny nonetheless.


----------



## Thumbinthebum

The Inbred Goatman said:


> First of all, this is MEDIAN age, not the MEAN age. I think a lot of people are getting this confused when talking about it.
> 
> Also, the discrepancy last week was closer, but prior weeks it has been more far apart the weeks prior it was 42 to 52, which is a pretty big difference. Hell, 5 years is a pretty significant difference.
> 
> What we do know, is *Matt Jackson* Vs Ray Fenix, two tag team no names in a singles match beat Becky Lynch's promo, and her singles match in ever demo under 50.


Nick.


----------



## IronMan8

birthday_massacre said:


> Saintpat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Median age for the latest Dynamite viewer was 44.9. Five years younger than the median WWE viewer.
> 
> Not a lot of rookie-of-the-year candidates watching either.
> 
> I went to AEW in Nashville and have been to a number of WWE shows (and ROH and other indie shows for that matter) and here’s what I noticed about the crowd:
> 
> AEW was mostly males in the 25-35 range, a few bringing girlfriends or female friends.
> 
> WWE has WAY more families attend — father (and mother sometimes) bringing the kids; I don’t think I saw a single kid at AEW.
> 
> WWE crowds at shows I’ve been to in the South have been way more diverse ... more people of color. AEW was almost exclusively (like 90-plus percent) white male.
> 
> That’s a small sample size but if you look on TV you’ll see that holds pretty true from what we can see of AEW crowds.
> 
> What does that mean? Maybe nothing.. But that’s what I noticed.
> 
> 
> 
> No shit LOL WWE is aimed at kids and famies. We already knew this, why do you act like this is some revelation you discovered? AEW is aimed 25-45 year olds.
Click to expand...

He also said AEW’s crowds in his experience were 90%+ white male compared to WWE’s crowds being more diverse. 

Also, half of AEW’s viewers are over 45 years old, so I’m not sure what it means to say they target 25-45, which is only 50% of their audience. 

Their use of ‘Bash at the Beach’ and such is aiming at bringing in older WCW fans.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Thumbinthebum said:


> Nick.


Lol, right.


----------



## Matthew Castillo

TheMaskedAvenger said:


> Turner was paying 445 million per year for the NBA through the '15/'16 season but they signed a new deal and now they pay over a billion a year. AEW was a bargain and is out doing them in the ratings.
> 
> https://bleacherreport.com/articles...als-with-turner-disney-through-2024-25-season


I mean even assuming lower add buy rates (something wrestling has historically suffered from despite high ratings), and that they only have an ad split with AEW and not the NBA, TNT might be making more ad revenue off of AEW because it's costing them 1/40th as much per year.


----------



## Jonhern

Matthew Castillo said:


> I mean even assuming lower add buy rates (something wrestling has historically suffered from despite high ratings), and that they only have an ad split with AEW and not the NBA, TNT might be making more ad revenue off of AEW because it's costing them 1/40th as much per year.


With things like the NBA they can also charge higher retransmission fees from cable companies.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Looks like they might be sending my favorite WWE star in Kevin Owens to NXT, god what hot garbage is that, no I have to pay attention to NXT at times while Dynamite is on lmao

The ratings battles from here on out are going to be a fight with how strong WWE put over NXT against the main brands.

NXT SHOULD crack 1 million this week, but who knows, AEW has a strong card too. Thanksgiving eve is a factor as well, tho I don't think it'll be a big one.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Well time for AEW to do something because nXt is going all out right now. Hard seeing AEW sit here week after week twittling their thumbs sending us Riho and Private Party while nXt is all over the television dominating. 

Come on AEW!!!! Make a counter


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

WWE just devoted one of their biggest yearly PPV's to beating AEW on Wednesday night.

SHOOK.


----------



## validreasoning

TKO Wrestling said:


> Well time for AEW to do something because nXt is going all out right now. Hard seeing AEW sit here week after week twittling their thumbs sending us Riho and Private Party while nXt is all over the television dominating.
> 
> Come on AEW!!!! Make a counter


AEW has had their top guys on tv far more than NXT have had theirs

In the 8 weeks head to head on Wednesday nights 

Adam Cole has wrestled twice
Baszler twice
Undisputed Era twice
Ciampa twice
Johnny Gargano once

Chris Jericho five times
Jon Moxley five times
Kenny Omega five times
Pac five times
Bucks four times as tag unit 

Cody is the only top guy that's rarely wrestled in dynamite, just the once in fact


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> Well time for AEW to do something because nXt is going all out right now. Hard seeing AEW sit here week after week twittling their thumbs sending us Riho and Private Party while nXt is all over the television dominating.
> 
> *Come on AEW!!!! Make a counter*


That would be the worst thing that AEW could do.

No need to hotshot things.

Also some of you have to stop with the mocking of Riho.

Riho is one of the best draw on TV with the 18-34 demo for AEW.

She does better with this demo than Becky last week.


----------



## Jedah

The Inbred Goatman said:


> The ratings battles from here on out are going to be a fight with how strong WWE put over NXT against the main brands.
> 
> NXT SHOULD crack 1 million this week, but who knows, AEW has a strong card too. Thanksgiving eve is a factor as well, tho I don't think it'll be a big one.


No they won't. There will maybe be a post PPV bump and then things will settle down into their normal pattern. Stopgap booking never changes things systematically. Thanksgiving will also put a damp on things. I expect lower ratings this week than last.

And if you want, just record NXT and watch it later. Always support AEW live.


----------



## rbl85

New location announcement at noon.


----------



## TheDraw

validreasoning said:


> AEW has had their top guys on tv far more than NXT have had theirs
> 
> In the 8 weeks head to head on Wednesday nights
> 
> Adam Cole has wrestled twice
> Baszler twice
> Undisputed Era twice
> Ciampa twice
> Johnny Gargano once
> 
> Chris Jericho five times
> Jon Moxley five times
> Kenny Omega five times
> Pac five times
> Bucks four times as tag unit
> 
> Cody is the only top guy that's rarely wrestled in dynamite, just the once in fact


I really think by next year the roster is gonna look completely different once a few contracts expire. 

I really hope AEW gets their hands on Killer Kross.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

validreasoning said:


> AEW has had their top guys on tv far more than NXT have had theirs
> 
> In the 8 weeks head to head on Wednesday nights
> 
> Adam Cole has wrestled twice
> Baszler twice
> Undisputed Era twice
> Ciampa twice
> Johnny Gargano once
> 
> Chris Jericho five times
> Jon Moxley five times
> Kenny Omega five times
> Pac five times
> Bucks four times as tag unit
> 
> Cody is the only top guy that's rarely wrestled in dynamite, just the once in fact


NXT doesn't have anyone that can draw, you see that when they are left on their own and nearing half a million viewers. WWE just devoted an entire month, their two biggest shows, and one of their 4 annual super shows to beating AEW. That is all Survivor Series was.

AEWs turn. And I cant wait!!!


----------



## kingfrass44

rbl85 said:


> That would be the worst thing that AEW could do.
> 
> No need to hotshot things.
> 
> Also some of you have to stop with the mocking of Riho.
> 
> Riho is one of the best draw on TV with the 18-34 demo for AEW.
> 
> She does better with this demo than Becky last week.


don't cheat yourself
The draw is only Moxley and, to a lesser extent, Chris Jericho.

The rest 
1-Geek and goofy
2- trash Not a place on TV And makes wrestling Silly Like orange cassidy
There is main legitimate except Moxley and Jericho
Omega goofy And Never Star


----------



## rbl85

kingfrass44 said:


> Riho Are not draw It is only Kenny's reason
> 
> Don't cheat yourself


Riho is a draw, the numbers shows it.

Everytime she have a match the 18-34 demo goes up.


----------



## Aedubya

TheDraw said:


> validreasoning said:
> 
> 
> 
> AEW has had their top guys on tv far more than NXT have had theirs
> 
> In the 8 weeks head to head on Wednesday nights
> 
> Adam Cole has wrestled twice
> Baszler twice
> Undisputed Era twice
> Ciampa twice
> Johnny Gargano once
> 
> Chris Jericho five times
> Jon Moxley five times
> Kenny Omega five times
> Pac five times
> Bucks four times as tag unit
> 
> Cody is the only top guy that's rarely wrestled in dynamite, just the once in fact
> 
> 
> 
> I really think by next year the roster is gonna look completely different once a few contracts expire.
> 
> I really hope AEW gets their hands on Killer Kross.
Click to expand...

Which roster?


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199009747539771392


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199009747539771392


Will have to try and get a ticket


----------



## patpat

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199009747539771392


 100% it's thego home show of the next ppv!
:mark:


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Will have to try and get a ticket


I think you'll get one without a problem


----------



## Corey

patpat said:


> 100% it's thego home show of the next ppv!
> :mark:


Nah I think the PPV will be announced for Saturday the 15th so there's likely 2 more shows before it (imo). We'll see though.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> I think you'll get one without a problem


I'm just glad their prices are fairly low. Now to just find a friend to go with


----------



## validreasoning

patpat said:


> DetroitRiverPhx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1199009747539771392
> 
> 
> 
> 100% it's thego home show of the next ppv!
> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/GkHkVKq.gif?1" border="0" alt="" title=":mark:" class="inlineimg" />
Click to expand...

Hardly have a ppv the week after wwes second biggest show (rumble) and weekend of Superbowl


----------



## rbl85

What made you think it was the go home show ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Look at that beady little fucker MJF right in the centre


----------



## looper007

So Ohio, is it a wrestling city or do we expect one of the lower crowds.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> What made you think it was the go home show ?


I'd guess he believes SuperBrawl would be on Superbowl weekend. With BATB being a juiced up Dynamite, IF AEW gets the trademark and uses it SB could be a juiced up Dynamite before the Superbowl just the same. 

Tony Khan did say they'd announce the fourth PPV early in the New Year. If they announce it very early January they'd at least need a month to build it one would imagine. So I think the PPV would be sometime in early February.


----------



## RapShepard

Ohio must do fairly decent as a wrestling state. Between Columbus where I live an Cleveland, we get about 4-6 shows a year from WWE and a PPV every other year almost


----------



## greasykid1

*Re: Cody Rhodes Comment on AEW Losing to NXT*



Geeee said:


> I think it's just fun and nostalgic to think of it as a Wednesday night war.
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I don't watch NXT. I like NXT's format a lot but it's pointless to get invested in any of their talent. Signed, someone who got invested in Sami Zayn


You have agood point, but now that NXT is it's own thing, on TV rather than a WWE Network show, I think we will get more people like Gargano who wish to remain on the NXT brand, with it's classic style of storytelling coupled with the more indy style wrestling.

This will hopefully lead to fewer people being ruined and misused on the main roster the way that Zayn, Nakamura, Young, Balor, Roode, Mcintyre, have been - to name a few.


----------



## The Wood

People need to keep in mind what these things are worth to advertisers. The comparison between AEW and the NBA is not fair, because I guarantee the NBA is worth far more than what AEW. What is the perception of the fans who watch? Having 300,000 dorky kids might not be as valuable as having 400,000 cool kids. The perception of wrestling and what AEW puts out is crucial. This is why WCW was canned when it was losing money despite having higher ratings than most things. Money pit + an inability to recoup. 

I don't know what the perception of AEW is to TNT. They might be super-happy with paying production costs. But the onus isn't on me to prove that they are making a killing off ad revenue right now. Maybe they are and that's very good for AEW (obviously). But assuming that being #5 on Wednesday with a demographic that has largely moved to streaming services without a clue of whatever market research has been done into their demographical make-up (ethnicity and whether or not they are influencers) is getting ahead of yourselves, especially when you are comparing it to the fucking NBA.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> People need to keep in mind what these things are worth to advertisers. The comparison between AEW and the NBA is not fair, because I guarantee the NBA is worth far more than what AEW. What is the perception of the fans who watch? Having 300,000 dorky kids might not be as valuable as having 400,000 cool kids. The perception of wrestling and what AEW puts out is crucial. This is why WCW was canned when it was losing money despite having higher ratings than most things. Money pit + an inability to recoup.
> 
> I don't know what the perception of AEW is to TNT. They might be super-happy with paying production costs. But the onus isn't on me to prove that they are making a killing off ad revenue right now. Maybe they are and that's very good for AEW (obviously). But assuming that being #5 on Wednesday with a demographic that has largely moved to streaming services without a clue of whatever market research has been done into their demographical make-up (ethnicity and whether or not they are influencers) is getting ahead of yourselves, especially when you are comparing it to the fucking NBA.


Stop trying to make it somehow they aren't a big success right now. Even Moxley in a interview yesterday without even being asked. That so far the ratings are very good and everyone is really happy. Then went on to say hopefully they can keep it up.


Also WCW was canned for it's massive budget. Turner had to pay for everything including all the high number of big contacts. So when the ratings dropped so much they were losing shit ton of money per year. That's why this time wrestling isn't as big as of investment for them. With only splitting production cost and making more money from that in ad revenue. Yes wrestling not gonna do same ad revenue as NBA despite the ratings. But it's still gonna do very well with those numbers over 2 hour time spand. Especially doing so good in 18-49 demo.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Yikes


----------



## MetalKiwi

NathanMayberry said:


> Yikes


Are these photos from the live tv show, or before/after the live tv show?
Maybe they should book smaller venues?


----------



## Dark Emperor

Damn, it that's during the show then just goes to show the early sell outs were because of how special those events were.

Doing shows with good attendance on a weekly basis like WWE in the long term is gonna be a tough.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Somebody who was there live said this was before the show started, and that it wasn’t quite a sell-out, but it was fuller than these pics show. Second time somebody’s tried trolling this section with this kind of crap. 



Dark Emperor said:


> Doing shows with good attendance on a weekly basis like WWE in the long term is gonna be a tough.


Wait, WHAT? WWE’s live attendance has been shit! :lol


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Apparently NXT wasn't even trending last night


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Apparently NXT wasn't even trending last night


I got a feeling both shows are gonna be down this week because of holiday traveling in the US. Bad weather across a lot of the country might add to the pain as well.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Somebody who was there live said this was before the show started, and that it wasn’t quite a sell-out, but it was fuller than these pics show. Second time somebody’s tried trolling this section with this kind of crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, WHAT? WWE’s live attendance has been shit! :lol


But better than what we're seeing here and this is 2months in.

Long term it will be difficult to sustain even current attendance when AEW is not shiny and is just another wrestling show.


----------



## looper007

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Apparently NXT wasn't even trending last night


I don't know about The States, but here in Ireland only AEW trends most weeks, sometimes it doesn't. I never see anything WWE unless it's Smackdown or a PPV.


----------



## roadkill_

MetalKiwi said:


> Maybe they should book smaller venues?


The only thing that matters is how it looks on TV.

Unless of course you're Dixie Carter and are dumb enough to repeatedly show empty parts of the arena throughout the show.


----------



## Death Rider

Dark Emperor said:


> Reggie Dunlop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody who was there live said this was before the show started, and that it wasn’t quite a sell-out, but it was fuller than these pics show. Second time somebody’s tried trolling this section with this kind of crap.
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, WHAT? WWE’s live attendance has been shit! <img src="http://i.imgur.com/EGDmCdR.gif?1?6573" border="0" alt="" title="Laugh" class="inlineimg" />
> 
> 
> 
> But better than what we're seeing here and this is 2months in.
> 
> Long term it will be difficult to sustain even current attendance when AEW is not shiny and is just another wrestling show.
Click to expand...

No it is really isn't lol. Wwe's attendance has been so bad they had to cancel shows and are losing money on house shows.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> *But better than what we're seeing here and this is 2months in.*
> 
> Long term it will be difficult to sustain even current attendance when AEW is not shiny and is just another wrestling show.


Didn’t they say they were averaging 3.5k in their quarterlies?


----------



## Jedah

It wasn't trending last night, but I wouldn't be surprised if NXT beats AEW this week. They're off the TakeOver/Survivor Series weekend so they could get a bump and AEW's show last night was weak by its standards.

I expect overall ratings to be down across the board due to Thanksgiving. People are traveling or spending time with their families.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Death Rider said:


> No it is really isn't lol. Wwe's attendance has been so bad they had to cancel shows and are losing money on house shows.


Those are house shows which never generated significant profits even in the best years. The attendance for the two main shows are deffo stronger than AEW is experiencing now whether you like to admit it or not.

Which is expected as they are the bigger company.


----------



## Jedah

The attendance for TV tapings isn't much better than house shows. It usually averages from 3 to 7k. Just eyeballing it, it's about the same.


----------



## Taroostyles

The 1st hour was definitely a mixed bag after the Jericho segment. I could definitely see that womens tag losing big viewers. I like Emi Sakura as a talent in the ring but her gimmick is not made for this audience, it's pretty cringe. 

2nd hour should pick up big with Pac/Omega, MJF/Page w/DDP, Jericho/Sky, and Mox.


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> Damn, it that's during the show then just goes to show the early sell outs were because of how special those events were.
> 
> Doing shows with good attendance on a weekly basis like WWE in the long term is gonna be a tough.


Umm WWE just did four shows in Chicago Friday through Monday and they were more empty then last night. Those were preshow pictures. They didn't sell out but they probably had at least 8 k there. I bet one of Raw or Smackdown had less attendance.


----------



## Stevieg786

When do ratings come out?


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Stevieg786 said:


> When do ratings come out?


Probably not until tomorrow with today being a holiday. Usually it’s around 4:00-ish EST.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Don't be shocked if the ratings are depressed by Thanksgiving.


----------



## Whysoserious?

Taroostyles said:


> The 1st hour was definitely a mixed bag after the Jericho segment. I could definitely see that womens tag losing big viewers. I like Emi Sakura as a talent in the ring but her gimmick is not made for this audience, it's pretty cringe.
> 
> 2nd hour should pick up big with Pac/Omega, MJF/Page w/DDP, Jericho/Sky, and Mox.


Jericho segment was good till SCU ruined it. Women’s match was atrocious. Pac vs Omega, MJF/Page, the DDP segment and the Mox stuff was the best parts. The Sky and Jericho match sucked, mostly because Sky is a geek.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The episode last night was garbage, which is very disappointing after a few good episodes in a row. I wouldn't be surprised if every segment lost viewers, with the exception of maybe the main event and MJF match.

Things look promising with the upcoming Moxley vs Inner Circle feud, though.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Are people really saying they think they should have sold out during the week of thanksgiving? Come on guys and gals! Stop it! People go away for the holidays. I’m also getting beyond sick and tired of a lot more people criticizing the product every week. It’s people like you that make it impossible to enjoy life. I’ve been waiting for a real alternative for years. We finally have one and you guys slam it! They’re doing the best they can. If they eventually go under, you guys did it. Just let them be. People are getting opportunities, they’re trying. Chill out!


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Prediction - AEW 850K, NXT 920K


----------



## imthegame19

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Prediction - AEW 850K, NXT 920K


I can't see either being that high or NXT winning. With it night before Thanksgiving less people probably watched tv. My guess it's like 830K for AEW and 780k for NXT.


----------



## Ace

I'll be shocked if NXT does over 900k.

I'm thinking AEW 850k, NXT 750k.


----------



## RainmakerV2

RubberbandGoat said:


> Are people really saying they think they should have sold out during the week of thanksgiving? Come on guys and gals! Stop it! People go away for the holidays. I’m also getting beyond sick and tired of a lot more people criticizing the product every week. It’s people like you that make it impossible to enjoy life. I’ve been waiting for a real alternative for years. We finally have one and you guys slam it! They’re doing the best they can. If they eventually go under, you guys did it. Just let them be. People are getting opportunities, they’re trying. Chill out!


No, its their fault if they go under. And no one is saying they are.


----------



## SayWhatAgain!

Ace said:


> I'll be shocked if NXT does over 900k.
> 
> I'm thinking AEW 850k, NXT 750k.


Considering they dedicated their 4th biggest PPV of the year to putting NXT over, that would be an embarrassing number.

I guess we'll see soon, if AEW win this week it's a HUGE win for them and egg on Vince's face for sacrificing his main roster.


----------



## AEWMoxley

SayWhatAgain! said:


> I guess we'll see soon,


Ratings will be out on Monday. Delayed due to Thanksgiving.


----------



## Dark Emperor

imthegame19 said:


> Umm WWE just did four shows in Chicago Friday through Monday and they were more empty then last night. Those were preshow pictures. They didn't sell out but they probably had at least 8 k there. I bet one of Raw or Smackdown had less attendance.


Haha 8k, It was nowhere near that. No need to lie when sticking up for the company.


----------



## iarwain

SayWhatAgain! said:


> Considering they dedicated their 4th biggest PPV of the year to putting NXT over, that would be an embarrassing number.


Yeah, they basically used Survivor Series to claim that NXT is the A show. 
Which it is in some people's minds, but it shows that WWE is willing to put the entire power of the company into defeating AEW.


----------



## rbl85

The ratings will be available next monday.


----------



## llj

Too bad we have to wait that long. This was an important week for NXT, and if AEW still holds them off after all that putting NXT over the past 3 weeks, I'd laugh.


----------



## Jedah

Again, I expect NXT to win. This was a subpar episode and NXT is coming off a big weekend. Now let's see if NXT can actually win the demo.

But ratings are gonna be down across the board due to Thanksgiving.

Things go back to normal next week with AEW winning most likely.


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> Haha 8k, It was nowhere near that. No need to lie when sticking up for the company.


Where you at the show? I live in Chicago and know people who went. They all said by show time it was a lot more full then those pictures show. There's no need to stick up for anyone. It's not like if they only did 5 or 6 k it would be some big deal.


----------



## rbl85

Jedah said:


> Again, I expect NXT to win. *This was a subpar episode* and NXT is coming off a big weekend. Now let's see if NXT can actually win the demo.
> 
> But ratings are gonna be down across the board due to Thanksgiving.
> 
> Things go back to normal next week with AEW winning most likely.


I don't think the quality of the episode is really important.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Chicago just got hit with WWE for FOUR shows in the 5 days preceding Dynamite and people are glooming because AEW “only” had 8k on Thanksgiving Eve.

SMH lol. This isn’t 1999-2001 where WCW was having 2k people and WWF were selling out every show in minutes. Both shows never sell out these days. Sad fact. Both are set up for half the arena for TV.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

We have to wait til Monday for cable ratings but they still put out the TV ratings today https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/tv-ratings-wednesday-november-27-2019.

If NXT can't win the demo they are fucked. Considering it was the day before Thanksgiving I could see a drop in viewers. I think it will be around 800k for both shows but I see AEW winning the Demo and going to 9-0 (or 8-0-1).


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

I don't know the impact Thanksgiving eve will have, a ton of people I know were going out and I was the only DORK staying in to watch wrestling. 

Regardless, both NXT and AEW are going to be affected by that, but an NXT loss would be embarrassing, hell, NXT should beat them in the demo as well. Smackdown and Survivor Series were a giant commercial for them, and now they should be viewed at with equal footing to RAW and SD(from a credibility standpoint). Not to mention, fallout from NXT's own PPV in Wargames(AEW got a 130k bump off a PPV, you would think NXT would be affected the same way).

I'll say 820k for AEW, 950k for NXT. I think Thanksgiving eve hurts both more than people realize.


----------



## kingfrass44

The Inbred Goatman said:


> I don't know the impact Thanksgiving eve will have, a ton of people I know were going out and I was the only DORK staying in to watch wrestling.
> 
> Regardless, both NXT and AEW are going to be affected by that, but an NXT loss would be embarrassing, hell, NXT should beat them in the demo as well. Smackdown and Survivor Series were a giant commercial for them, and now they should be viewed at with equal footing to RAW and SD(from a credibility standpoint). Not to mention, fallout from NXT's own PPV in Wargames(AEW got a 130k bump off a PPV, you would think NXT would be affected the same way).
> 
> I'll say 820k for AEW, 950k for NXT. I think Thanksgiving eve hurts both more than people realize.


nxt will not win
NXT's own PPV in Wargames No effect Ratings
The only way main roster


----------



## ClintDagger

I wouldn’t expect NXT to win based on Raw’s rating. I think SS was a pretty big dud and I don’t get the sense there was any buzz coming out of it. Hell WWE decided to start the heel turn of their top full time guy because of how bad things are right now. There’s no way Vince envisioned turning Seth in 2019. If you had told him that would happen 8 months ago he would have had you shot on sight.


----------



## JasonLives

There is a serious lack of logic behind the people that somehow believe it would be embarrassing for NXT to not beat AEW this time, or who think that NXT somehow is gonna gain a big amount of viewers because of Survivor Series.

The last couple of months has already shown what the core is for AEW and NXT. That will not change in a big way. 
WWE has also shown that NXT can draw more viewers and "beat" AEW if they wanted too, but they have to change up the format and base for what NXT is to do it(and I dont see HHH doing that). WWE could have easily continued putting on Raw/SD superstars on NXT after SS but chose not to.
It will be right back to normal where AEW will have about 100-200,000 viewers more each week. And a very, very small qlick of people will think there is some kind of a war between them, just to feed their own "AEW/NXT is the best, AEW/NXT sucks logic". Even though neither AEW or NXT will be close to their debut show when it comes to viewership.
The growth potential for todays wrestling shows are subpar at best.


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Dynamite did 6,100 people in the Sears Center, in comparison, RAW did 7,200, so that would be a pretty good number all things considered.


----------



## Corey

Somewhat related note. Hot Topic has all their AEW shirts marked down to half price for Black Friday: https://www.hottopic.com/theme?q=wrestling+t+shirts


----------



## fabi1982

I just wonder, everyone in the AEW section mostly hates WWE, but still the ratings thread contains 80% of WWE discussions. I remember this section should only be for AEW, but all these 40 people mostly discussing here only care about WWE and how bad NXT will do compared to AEW. Really dont understand this...


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

The reason AEW ran Chicago even tho WWE exhausted the market is because Tony Khan wants to make the night before Thanksgiving in Chicago a yearly tradition according to WON.


----------



## Dark Emperor

JasonLives said:


> There is a serious lack of logic behind the people that somehow believe it would be embarrassing for NXT to not beat AEW this time, or who think that NXT somehow is gonna gain a big amount of viewers because of Survivor Series.
> 
> The last couple of months has already shown what the core is for AEW and NXT. That will not change in a big way.
> WWE has also shown that NXT can draw more viewers and "beat" AEW if they wanted too, but they have to change up the format and base for what NXT is to do it(and I dont see HHH doing that). WWE could have easily continued putting on Raw/SD superstars on NXT after SS but chose not to.
> It will be right back to normal where AEW will have about 100-200,000 viewers more each week. And a very, very small qlick of people will think there is some kind of a war between them, just to feed their own "AEW/NXT is the best, AEW/NXT sucks logic". Even though neither AEW or NXT will be close to their debut show when it comes to viewership.
> The growth potential for todays wrestling shows are subpar at best.


I agree with this. I think most people know this but are trying to shift the pressure to NXT so they can celebrate and make it a big deal when AEW wins. Even if both rating are significantly down. This has been the trend on here.

Fact is AEW has a bigger base and NXT is not really serious competition and is only there to take a chunk of viewers away. AEW will win most weeks but key is trying to grow this audience which is very difficult.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

I'm not going to make a thread for this so I'll just post it here

:evilmatt

Even though his WWE run killed any hype he had, it would still be a great signing, especially if could get Jeff too


----------



## Jedah

The Hardys returned at Mania 33 so I assume their contracts are coming up soon. I'd like to see him. He's a known name and can put other guys over. And AEW would use the broken gimmick properly.

Jeff I'm not so sure. He's fucked up way too many times. Wouldn't be surprised if AEW stays away from him.


----------



## RiverFenix

Dog, I hope not. Broken crap was cringy as hell. Matt thinks is some genius level shit. And Reby is a headcase.


----------



## fulcizombie

Dark Emperor said:


> I agree with this. I think most people know this but are trying to shift the pressure to NXT so they can celebrate and make it a big deal when AEW wins. Even if both rating are significantly down. This has been the trend on here.
> 
> Fact is AEW has a bigger base and NXT is not really serious competition and is only there to take a chunk of viewers away. AEW will win most weeks but key is trying to grow this audience which is very difficult.


The only thing that Vince hasn’t done is to actually pay people to watch NXT so things aren’t as simple and Vince seems willing to sacrifice his big shows so that NXT can do some damage to Dynamite. Of course , going by Vince and HHH logic, dynamite beating NXT is cause for celebration and it is not like Raw , the premier weekly wrestling show , is doing amazing numbers or anything.


----------



## Sbatenney

Jedah said:


> Again, I expect NXT to win. This was a subpar episode and NXT is coming off a big weekend. Now let's see if NXT can actually win the demo.
> 
> But ratings are gonna be down across the board due to Thanksgiving.
> 
> Things go back to normal next week with AEW winning most likely.


I expect AEW to win because on paper it was the most hyped show. They did what NXT did last week and throw a lot into this, Pac vs Omega rematch, Jericho defending the title and even announcing a segment for Jericho which people would want to see.

Honestly I do think it was the weakest AEW show so far(not a bad one just one that was week) to me, a number of things didn't work the way they wanted and was even let down by some of the matches too. Still I expect people tuning in to AEW because of the big matches that were announced.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Being the Delete confirmed. :evilmatt


----------



## Seafort

fabi1982 said:


> I just wonder, everyone in the AEW section mostly hates WWE, but still the ratings thread contains 80% of WWE discussions. I remember this section should only be for AEW, but all these 40 people mostly discussing here only care about WWE and how bad NXT will do compared to AEW. Really dont understand this...


1. Because AEW doesn't exist in a vacuum. WWE would love to attrit enough of Dynamite's audience that TNT pulls the plug. That in turn would ultimately allow WWE to go back to a lower pay scale. So WWE misteps or NXT failing to smash Dynamite feels like a win.

2. Because AEW largely exists because of disatisfaction with WWE's product. Talking about how bad "x" angle in just reinforces the fanbase


----------



## Seafort

Jedah said:


> The Hardys returned at Mania 33 so I assume their contracts are coming up soon. I'd like to see him. He's a known name and can put other guys over. And AEW would use the broken gimmick properly.
> 
> Jeff I'm not so sure. He's fucked up way too many times. Wouldn't be surprised if AEW stays away from him.


Their contracts were up at WM35, but WWE exercised a one year extention clause that was in the language of the original deal. So technically, Matt and Jeff are done in April. That said, WWE has the option to add time to the contracts due to injuries that Matt and Jeff have sustained. So in reality, it might be closer to 2021 where both are out of WWE.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Im gonna go with..AEW 810k, NXT 795K. That first hour for AEW was hideous, but Jericho probably saved it viewers wise.


----------



## imthegame19

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Dynamite did 6,100 people in the Sears Center, in comparison, RAW did 7,200, so that would be a pretty good number all things considered.


Yeah 6100 of 10,000 on night before Thanksgiving isn't bad. 7200 of 18,000 is less good. Any word how Smackdown and Takeover did?


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah 6100 of 10,000 on night before Thanksgiving isn't bad. 7200 of 18,000 is less good. Any word how Smackdown and Takeover did?


Takeover did 10,500, Smackdown I believe did 7,700, but I gotta double check on that.

Meltzer even notes that night before Thanksgiving is usually a death slot for live events. That, combined with a burned out market and doing 6,100 is pretty good.

The arena for the WWE shows is adjusted to max at 11,500, which is surprising because as you said, Allstate is 18,000. MITB 2011 in the same venue did 14,815.


----------



## Boldgerg

Aren't the ratings usually out long before now?


----------



## Thumbinthebum

Yes but it's not thanksgiving every week


----------



## RelivingTheShadow

Boldgerg said:


> Aren't the ratings usually out long before now?


They will be out Monday.


----------



## fabi1982

Seafort said:


> 1. Because AEW doesn't exist in a vacuum. WWE would love to attrit enough of Dynamite's audience that TNT pulls the plug. That in turn would ultimately allow WWE to go back to a lower pay scale. So WWE misteps or NXT failing to smash Dynamite feels like a win.
> 
> 2. Because AEW largely exists because of disatisfaction with WWE's product. Talking about how bad "x" angle in just reinforces the fanbase


To your no.1 point this always bothers me, that the people in here make it such a dramatic story. Just because of a tweet from HHH? As we all know AEW decided to go to Wednesday after WWE had their place on USA (and it was on a Wednesday before).

To no.2 especially with this disatisfaction, I wouldnt want to see, speak or whatever that topic. Why bother? And it is usually not the "oh look this is better" it is "these WWE fuckers fucked the fuck and now AEW jesus comes"...


----------



## Corey

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201209731811033099


----------



## rbl85

It's actually a little bit more if you count the people who were there for free.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

That’s dope. Even at 3k, crowd was popping.

What was the rating for last weeks impact?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Corey said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201209731811033099


That is pretty good attendance


----------



## Jonhern

Corey said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201209731811033099


Sites back. That's really good numbers, averaging 6158 paid per show, and 5500 paid per show if you exclude the debut.


----------



## Jonhern

optikk sucks said:


> That’s dope. Even at 3k, crowd was popping.
> 
> What was the rating for last weeks impact?


Do you mean dynamite? Will be out today because of the holiday. If you actually meant impact, AXS is not measured by Nielson so ratings are not public.


----------



## Ace

Ratings should be coming in the next hour.


----------



## RiverFenix

Corey said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1201209731811033099


What happened in Charlotte? Isn't that usually a good wrestling market?


----------



## Jonhern

The Inbred Goatman said:


> Takeover did 10,500, Smackdown I believe did 7,700, but I gotta double check on that.
> 
> Meltzer even notes that night before Thanksgiving is usually a death slot for live events. That, combined with a burned out market and doing 6,100 is pretty good.
> 
> *The arena for the WWE shows is adjusted to max at 11,500, which is surprising because as you said, Allstate is 18,000. MITB 2011 in the same venue did 14,815.*


That was over a decade ago when sales were better, they probably had more sections opened up, like the obstructed view seats next to the stage and the upper sections behind the hard cam. Those were likely never opened if the sales were not high enough to justify it. They don't want a couple of people sitting in almost empty sections, they have to pay for extra arena staff and all that according to the setup they use.


----------



## rbl85

Ace said:


> Ratings should be coming in the next hour.


It should come out at 2pm Pacific.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jonhern said:


> Do you mean dynamite? Will be out today because of the holiday. If you actually meant impact, AXS is not measured by Nielson so ratings are not public.


Oh my bad. I keep seeing IMPACT on the main page now as if it’s still a relevant company.


----------



## NascarStan

Going to predict 835k for aew and 790k for nxt


----------



## rbl85

I think the numbers are going to be lower than that because of Thanksgiving


----------



## Jonhern

11/27 Wednesday Ratings: AEW .26 Demo/ 663k Viewers (15th)/NXT .24 Demo/ 810k Viewers (19th)


----------



## RiverFenix

Jonhern said:


> 11/27 Wednesday Ratings: AEW .26 Demo/ 663k Viewers (15th)/NXT .24 Demo/ 810k Viewers (19th)


That's ugly. No putting lipstick on that pig. A blow out. Lost half their viewers from the debut show - Thanksgiving or not.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Jonhern said:


> 11/27 Wednesday Ratings: AEW .26 Demo/ 663k Viewers (15th)/NXT .24 Demo/ 810k Viewers (19th)


Oh boy, embarrassing numbers. The solid core didnt watch show up this time. Didn't expect such a gap to NXT, i guess WWE showcasing the talent is working.

They may bounce back next week.


----------



## RapShepard

I'm really surprised NXT pulled more viewers. It really just doesn't make much sense with it being available on the Network the next day and actually prefer NXT a little more.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Anyone with a brain could have predicted this. I predicted on Thursday, in this very thread, that this episode would completely bomb. The show was terrible, and their biggest star appeared for about 4 minutes total, 2 of which were right at the end of the show.

Their viewership will increase with Moxley getting more air time, which he should get, since he will be involved in the top feud.


----------



## Ace

Wow, those are shocking numbers.

I didn't expect AEW to drop that much and NXT to do that well.

What on earth happened?


----------



## AEWMoxley

Ace said:


> What on earth happened?


What happened was that they put together a garbage episode of Dynamite. I wouldn't be surprised if literally every quarter hour lost viewers.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW is courting the lax fax and the casual fan - that fan is much more likely to ghost out on a Thanksgiving Eve airing. NXT has their build in established die-hards who will always show up.


----------



## silvergold

Maybe they will hire Russo to bring the ratings up.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

*W-W:
0.663M [38th] [ - 0.230M | - 25.76% ]
0.260D [15th] [ - 0.130D | - 33.33% ]

AEW | NXT:
0.663M | 0.810M [ - 0.147M | - 18.15% ]
0.260D | 0.240D [ + 0.020D | + 8.33% ]

W-W | AEW + NXT:
1.473M [ - 0.336M | - 18.57% ]
0.500D [ - 0.190D | - 27.54% ]*


----------



## Dark Emperor

Ace said:


> Wow, those are shocking numbers.
> 
> I didn't expect AEW to drop that much and NXT to do that well.
> 
> What on earth happened?


Strange thing was based on what was advertised, this seemed like their most stacked show.

So it'll be interesting going forward to see if this was just a one-off. I still think AEW will beat NXT this week. If not, then it becomes an issue


----------



## silvergold

AEW needs to step their game up if they want to be more relevant. I know they are a new company but the last thing that people want to see is WWE be the only major wrestling company for another 20 years.


----------



## RainmakerV2

And this was with a PPV worthy AEW card LOL. That first hour was HORRIBLE. They deserved this.


----------



## Cataclysm

Quite surprised at that massive drop off. Show was decent but that opening segment was totally WWE-CORE.


----------



## Tell it like it is

I swear people care more about ratings than the actual show, which is sad. Anyways who cares tbh and just keep supporting the show you actually watch


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

NXT will continue going up. It should be expected. I hope AEW can survive the onslaught.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Not even surprised. Given that there was a holiday right around the corner and then the episode itself not being all that well recieved. 

Not worried though. They'll bounce back. I know it.


----------



## silvergold

Didn't Nitro have a few two week losing streaks to Raw at the beginning of the Monday Night Wars?


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Not even surprised. Given that there was a holiday right around the corner and then the episode itself not being all that well recieved.
> 
> Not worried though. *They'll bounce back*. I know it.


They'll need a much better episode than the shit they put out last Wednesday, that's for sure.


----------



## RainmakerV2

silvergold said:


> Didn't Nitro have a few two week losing streaks to Raw at the beginning of the Monday Night Wars?


Dude. Theyve lost half their audience and are losing to a WWE developmental brand. Stop. Lol.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Not even surprised. Given that there was a holiday right around the corner and then the episode itself not being all that well recieved.
> 
> Not worried though. *They'll bounce back*. I know it.


They'll need a much better episode than the shit they put out last Wednesday, that's for sure.


----------



## silvergold

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. Theyve lost half their audience and are losing to a WWE developmental brand. Stop. Lol.


Aside from a few familiar faces AEW's roster isn't more recognizable than a developmental roster. They are like an expansion team in sports that needs time to establish an identity to a wide audience.


----------



## RainmakerV2

silvergold said:


> Aside from a few familiar faces AEW's roster isn't more recognizable than a developmental roster. They are like an expansion team in sports that needs time to establish an identity to a wide audience.



Which is why they maybe should have taken another 6 months to a year to actually build a roster instead of just thinking The Elite actually had the starpower to carry a national TV show. Lol


----------



## Death Rider

People panic way too much. Is it a bad week? Yes but it is 1 bad week. If it keeps happening fine the world is ending but hopefully things recover.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

optikk sucks said:


> NXT will continue going up. It should be expected. I hope AEW can survive the onslaught.


Yeah, in the boomer demo for sure. With no main roster invasion angle and without bump of not one, but two PPV's, they will be scrapping for 500k views in one, two weeks.


----------



## Jedah

Yeah, so basically exactly what I expected would happen. NXT gets the post PPV bump, ratings down across the board due to Thanksgiving.

Things should get back to normal starting this week.


----------



## Undertaker23RKO

Not a good sign. This weeks rating will be interesting. No more holiday or PPV impact.


----------



## Chan Hung

So, did AEW still win this week or no? Just to clarify. Thank you.


----------



## Jedah

The key is that AEW still won in the demo, albeit barely. Most of those people should be coming back starting this week, as long as AEW doesn't keep putting on shows like last week they'll be OK. Don't let recency bias make you think the sky is falling.


----------



## rbl85

So I finaly found the courage to write what i think should and should not do if they want to be successful in the present and the futur.

I don't really like it but they have to do their first year of shows around and only around the most known guys. we live in a world where people don't want to wait month to see a payoff so they can't take the luxury to build someone new for several weeks. Sometime it's not the things that make the most sense that are the most successfull.
The majority of people who watch wrestling don't give a fuck anymore about the ring psychology they want non stop action especially for the matches where there is nothing to gain (belt, trophy….)
The people who don't follow them on Twitter don't know 90% of the roster.
I'm sure that if we ask the people who watch AEW "who's Darby Allin, Omega, The Bucks, Page etc.….?" a huge percentage of them are not going to be able to describe those guys. They act like Omega, The Bucks, Page are some big stars but they're not and they expect people to know who those guys are.
The videos on the Dark Order are great but they should have done those videos for Omega, The Bucks, Page, PAC, SCU etc.… people needs to have an emotional bond with the wrestlers to care about them.
Tell me what are the things that AEW done to make you feel emotionally invested with the guys that i have cited ? They've done nothing, they hope that someone who don't know those guys is going to really like them just because they're good wrestlers…..that's not enough in 2019/2020.

So now i think the numbers are going to be up next week, i have 0 doubt about that because it's the same thing that what happened with the world series, AEW lost way more viewers than NXT for the World Series.AEW seems to be more hurt by the special "events" than NXT, probably because AEW being new people are still not really emotionaly attached to it.

PS : Sorry for the mistake.


----------



## Death Rider

rbl85 said:


> So I finaly found the courage to write what i think should and should not do if they want to be successful in the present and the futur.
> 
> I don't really like it but they have to do their first year of shows around and only around the most known guys. we live in a world where people don't want to wait month to see a payoff so they can't take the luxury to build someone knew for several weeks. Sometime it's not the things that make the most sense that are the most successfull.
> The majority of people who watch wrestling don't give a fuck anymore about the ring psychology they want non stop action especially for the matches where there is nothing to gain (belt, trophy….)
> The people who don't follow them on Twitter don't know 90% of the roster.
> I'm sure that if we ask the people who watch AEW "who's Darby Allin, Omega, The Bucks, Page etc.….?" a huge percentage of them are not going to be able to describe those guys. They act like Omega, The Bucks, Page are some big stars but they're not and they expect people to know who those guys are.
> The videos on the Dark Order are great but they should have done those videos for Omega, The Bucks, Page, PAC, SCU etc.… people needs to have an emotional bond with the wrestlers to care about them.
> Tell me what are the things that AEW done to make you feel emotionally invested with the guys that i have cited ? They've done nothing, they hope that someone who don't know those guys is going to really like them just because they're good wrestlers…..that's not enough in 2019/2020.
> 
> So now i think the numbers are going to be up next week, i have 0 doubt about that because it's the same thing that what happened with the world series, AEW lost way more viewers than NXT for the World Series.AEW seems to be more hurt by the special "events" than NXT, probably because AEW being new people are still not really emotionaly attached to it.
> 
> PS : Sorry for the mistake.


That is a really logical post and makes a lot of sense. WWE will have a lot more a of devoted following as it has been around longer. If AEW do not gain these viewers back over the next few weeks it is a worry but right now I think it is too early to panic. I also think people on this forum have dumb expactions of what is possible for a brand new wrestling company in 2019.


----------



## Chrome

Yeah that's a crap number, hopefully it bounces back this week.


----------



## Chan Hung

*So is this correct?*
NXT | AEW:
0.663M | 0.810M

If so that means AEW won right? And around holiday? Not bad. 810,000?


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Surprised It's as low as it is but not that they lost. The episode wasn't that good honestly. They still won all the demos but the 50+. NXT was coming off of Wargames and WWE had them win Survivor Series to help them with their ratings. Not every episode will feature main roster stars or be a post PPV show. Take the L this week and put on a better show next week.


----------



## MrThortan

WWE is a juggernaut. Even though the are counter-programming with their developmental show, it is still under the WWE universe. WWE is wrestling to many people, just like the UFC is mma. AEW is a fledgling company, and I am going to enjoy it while it lasts.


----------



## Chan Hung

Wait, AEW did 600,000+?? If that is so, I READ WRONG, then holy shit that is a low ass number. WOW.


----------



## Chan Hung

I just want to add that in fairness, AEW's first hour sucked ass last week. Besides the first 10 minutes, it sucked. They deserve it. Had a shit ass womens match and some boring shit. Their second hour was pretty good.


----------



## Ham and Egger

I would feel worried but let's see how this week plays out first before I make any remarks about the past two weeks.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> *So is this correct?*
> NXT | AEW:
> 0.663M | 0.810M
> 
> If so that means AEW won right? And around holiday? Not bad. 810,000?


Reverse


----------



## RainmakerV2

Chan Hung said:


> Wait, AEW did 600,000+?? If that is so, I READ WRONG, then holy shit that is a low ass number. WOW.



Nxt: 810
AEW 660.

Thats the numbers. Johnyaces post looks backwards to me. Dunno if my reading comprehension is bad or something.


----------



## JonnyAceLaryngitis

Chan Hung said:


> *So is this correct?*
> NXT | AEW:
> 0.663M | 0.810M
> 
> If so that means AEW won right? And around holiday? Not bad. 810,000?





Chan Hung said:


> Wait, AEW did 600,000+?? If that is so, I READ WRONG, then holy shit that is a low ass number. WOW.





rbl85 said:


> Reverse





RainmakerV2 said:


> Nxt: 810
> AEW 660.
> 
> Thats the numbers. Johnyaces post looks backwards to me. Dunno if my reading comprehension is bad or something.


I did accidentally post them in reverse as I was posting in both the AEW & NXT threads simultaneously. It has since been rectified. Please excuse the error.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Will be interesting to see which segments got better numbers, wouldn't be surprised if that first hour turned quite a few away.

Thanksgiving or not that is a huge drop off, if they don't bounce back this week then that would be worrying.


----------



## Tell it like it is

What's funny and sad is that some people don't even watch aew, so they just come in here when nxt does better in ratings and hate on the show.


----------



## PavelGaborik

660k is nothing short of dreadful.


----------



## Jazminator

This isn't "Two men enter, one man leaves." Both NXT and AEW will win their share of ratings battles. One won't go belly up because the other wins the ratings. The thing that matters is that AEW, TNT and advertisers are satisfied or happy with the numbers they're getting. The same goes for NXT. That's competition for you.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Tell it like it is said:


> What's funny and sad is that some people don't even watch aew, so they just come in here when nxt does better in ratings and hate on the show.



Ive watched every minute of every show. The show where they did the car angle in the parking lot was the best two hour wrestling show I have seen in years. The show they did Wednesday was absolute crap and deserved a bad number.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Yeah, in the boomer demo for sure. With no main roster invasion angle and without bump of not one, but two PPV's, they will be scrapping for 500k views in one, two weeks.


You sound very sure, but NXT has had tons of promo; what makes you think 18-49s won’t be watching NXT from now on?


----------



## RapShepard

silvergold said:


> Didn't Nitro have a few two week losing streaks to Raw at the beginning of the Monday Night Wars?


Nah it's mostly WWF winning, then the nWo hit and WCW won for 83 weeks. WCW was losing prior to the hit of the nWo


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Nah it's mostly WWF winning, then the nWo hit and WCW won for 83 weeks. WCW was losing prior to the hit of the nWo


I don't really understand


----------



## RapShepard

When WCW first went live on Monday's, Nitro mostly lost to Monday Night Raw. The nWo angle being so captivating is what allowed WCW to turn the tide and start kicking the WWF's ass.


----------



## AEW_19

Whether we like it or not, the ratings will continue to go up and down.The company is in it's first year and they're experimenting on what works and what doesn't. Dynamite wasn't great this week so it's no surprise that the rating went down. It's all part of growing a company.


----------



## ellthom

To be honest NxT has been better in quality the last 3 weeks... AEW was great for the first 4 episodes the last three weeks I have gotten a little frustrated with it.... But if anything it encourages AEw to do better, but we'll see.


----------



## RiverFenix

Most of the network shows aired reruns on Wednesday Night for a reason.


----------



## rbl85

I think the most interesting rating will be for the first segment.
There is 2 option :
1/ Not a lot of people planned to watch AEW that night and the number will be low around 800k.
2/ The same amount of people than last week started to watch AEW but didn't like the show.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

I’ll bet a coffee and a donut that first hour drove a whole lot of viewers away (and yes, that includes the opening segment, which was very weak as far as story-telling and angle advancement). Too bad, because hour 2 mostly kicked ass.

I still don’t think they need to do anything drastic, other than get their midcarders some serious coaching and practice time. Just keep the slow and steady buildup of new talent; see who’s getting over, and give them more tv time. Yeah, 600k is a bit dreadful, but not the end of the world.

Going forward, I won’t be a bit surprised to see similar numbers for the rest of the year. Holidays are upon us, and with that comes shopping and holiday parties and all sorts of other distractions to keep people away from their tv’s. I see nothing on the horizon to reverse this latest trend unless NXT suddenly shits the bed.


----------



## Chan Hung

Definitely some concerning numbers, if they stay that low.


----------



## Jedah

It's certainly not going to stay at 600k. Again, I expect things to go back to normal this week.

But AEW really has dropped the ball in some ways since Full Gear. Why does Riho still not have a serious rival? Why have they done nothing with MJF and Cody after he just turned? Already, MJF has been losing some steam from that turn, despite Wardlow being there. If that was for some ring that doesn't mean anything, it's a bad call. They need to get that rivalry started now that they pulled the trigger.

And obviously, the Inner Circle should start going after those tag titles.

The only guy that's really stayed hot through these cool episodes has been Mox. Still too early for him to go after Jericho and the Inner Circle though. He needs a major obstruction like Pac or something.

Unless we're going to have a Rumble type situation with purported Match Beyond in February. That would let the rivalry start a little earlier as Jericho and his guys want to prevent Mox from winning that and being #1 contender for DON II.


----------



## Derek30

I wouldn't have expected people to stick around based on that first hour. There's a lot more they can do to build programs and characters. I would have loved to have seen a follow up on Darby Allin after the loss to Moxley. He's a brooding character and they could have done something interesting with him. Instead of just jumping into a Omega/Pac match, have Omega cut a promo in the ring or something. Even have Pac come out and question why they're wrestling again after beating Omega on PPV. You have to give people a reason to stick around. Oh yeah, Moxley should be getting consistently high amounts of TV time ala Jericho. He's the guy


----------



## Intimidator3

I bet they had lower starting numbers. Then that first hour was an easy 100k loss. That’s probably the worst and slowest hour they’ve put on.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Derek30 said:


> I wouldn't have expected people to stick around based on that first hour. There's a lot more they can do to build programs and characters. I would have loved to have seen a follow up on Darby Allin after the loss to Moxley. He's a brooding character and they could have done something interesting with him. Instead of just jumping into a Omega/Pac match, have Omega cut a promo in the ring or something. Even have Pac come out and question why they're wrestling again after beating Omega on PPV. You have to give people a reason to stick around. Oh yeah, Moxley should be getting consistently high amounts of TV time ala Jericho. He's the guy


Agreed. They need to pick 8-10 guys and 2 or 3 girls and make them the focus of the show. All this coming and going and random matches is dumb.


----------



## TAC41

I love how the people in this thread defending AEW’s embarrassingly low numbers are blaming thanksgiving and conveniently ignoring the fact that NXT didn’t drop anywhere near as low as AEW. 

The ship is sinking, come to terms with it. AEW has lost nearly a million viewers in two months, which I’m sure is a record. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rbl85

I would not be surprise if Mox vs Janela opens the show this week


----------



## Taroostyles

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. Theyve lost half their audience and are losing to a WWE developmental brand. Stop. Lol.


Oh yes, a developmental brand that was just the focal point of an entire main brand PPV and had Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, and Finn Balor featured on it. 

NXT stopped being a developmental brand the moment AEW got on tv.


----------



## Derek30

TAC41 said:


> I love how the people in this thread defending AEW’s embarrassingly low numbers are blaming thanksgiving and conveniently ignoring the fact that NXT didn’t drop anywhere near as low as AEW.
> 
> The ship is sinking, come to terms with it. AEW has lost nearly a million viewers in two months, which I’m sure is a record.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They lost because they absolutely shat the bed Wednesday. They need to consistently put on a good show much like the ones they had leading into Full Gear. There is talent here but they need to give the audience a reason to keep tuning in and see more


----------



## ClintDagger

RapShepard said:


> Nah it's mostly WWF winning, then the nWo hit and WCW won for 83 weeks. WCW was losing prior to the hit of the nWo


Are you sure about that? I read the Nitro book just last year and I could have sworn it said in the head to head battles prior to Hall showing up it had been a virtual tie. Like 15 wins apiece or something like that. I could be misremembering.


----------



## rbl85

I think in 2019/2020 a wrestling show can't start with a promo.
If the start and the ending of a show are good then people will forget what happen in between (even if it's really bad).
On the other hand if the start or ending are bad then you can be sure that people will say that the show suck even if the middle of the show was great.

Also i think that AEW should announce before the end of the show which wrestlers is going to open the next week show.
I mean Moxley is going to open the show then you want people to know it.


----------



## Schwartzxz

I do not like this new forum but Im not gonna miss reading or hearing all the excuses from AEW marks. also Meltzer and Alvarez. this is too funny.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> Oh yes, a developmental brand that was just the focal point of an entire main brand PPV and had Becky Lynch, Seth Rollins, AJ Styles, and Finn Balor featured on it.
> 
> NXT stopped being a developmental brand the moment AEW got on tv.



How many of them were on or advertised this Wednesday? Lol. Face it, AEW put on a disappointing show and got its butt kicked. They aint dead or anything, but the trend aint good.


----------



## IamMark

That's a drop. Maybe got to do with Thanksgiving but hopefully it goes back up soon.


----------



## Psychosocial

RainmakerV2 said:


> Agreed. They need to pick 8-10 guys and 2 or 3 girls and make them the focus of the show. All this coming and going and random matches is dumb.


Yeah. I hate this modern wrestling thing of making everything competitive, giving everyone a chance, and making sure each person gets on cards for a pay day even when it doesn't make any sense. Companies need to pick who they want to push and go with them as long as they're getting over. You got to be ruthless to succeed. If talent can't handle that, they're in the wrong business.


----------



## Dr. Middy

This was unexpected, although NXT might have held viewers thanks to a strong showing at Survivor Series. A good bunch of these guys got put over huge on the show. 

Curious if this levels out by next week.?‍♂


----------



## Chan Hung

When do they really start to panic? Also, dont they have a fixed 2 or 3 year deal that assures them whatever the ratings TNT will keep them? Maybe theyll need to start sooner than NXT or After? Lol


----------



## RapShepard

ClintDagger said:


> Are you sure about that? I read the Nitro book just last year and I could have sworn it said in the head to head battles prior to Hall showing up it had been a virtual tie. Like 15 wins apiece or something like that. I could be misremembering.


I could be wrong, I just know the official ass kicking came with the nWo lol


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> When do they really start to panic? Also, dont they have a fixed 2 or 3 year deal that assures them whatever the ratings TNT will keep them? Maybe theyll need to start sooner than NXT or After? Lol


I don't know but if they were like the people on this forum then they would have probably already committed suicide


----------



## The XL 2

I really hate to say it, but the show is over folks. They've lost over half of their audience since their debut and took a crushing loss to NXT. Instead of trying to fill out their roster with actual professional wrestling, they filled it out with Codys friends and a bunch of goofy spot monkeys. They had a chance to do something special but they blew it. Look at NWAs roster, a ton of good talkers and workers who look like wrestlers, they should have gone after those guys. They should have tried to sign or buy out the contracts of guys like Brian Cage, Jacob Fatu, Tessa Blanchard, Killer Kross, Tom Lawlor, etc. But nah, they filled their roster out with guys like Joey Janella, Jimmy Havok, Marko Stunt, guys like that. What a fucking shame with the kind of momentum they had going into all of this that they crashed and burned, it didn't need to be this. This is on Cody and the Bucks for bullshitting around and Tony Khan for being a money mark with no vision.


----------



## Lockard The GOAT

A lot of things AEW does pisses me off and make me want to pull my hair out. Why did they not follow up on the MJF/Cody rivalry? It's not like it's been dropped already. Why aren't they giving us more promos and segments instead of wrestling matches? Why is there no secondary title? Why do they do useless crap like keep Win-Loss records of everyone?


----------



## Whysoserious?

The XL 2 said:


> I really hate to say it, but the show is over folks. They've lost over half of their audience since their debut and took a crushing loss to NXT. Instead of trying to fill out their roster with actual professional wrestling, they filled it out with Codys friends and a bunch of goofy spot monkeys. They had a chance to do something special but they blew it. Look at NWAs roster, a ton of good talkers and workers who look like wrestlers, they should have gone after those guys. They should have tried to sign or buy out the contracts of guys like Brian Cage, Jacob Fatu, Tessa Blanchard, Killer Kross, Tom Lawlor, etc. But nah, they filled their roster out with guys like Joey Janella, Jimmy Havok, Marko Stunt, guys like that. What a fucking shame with the kind of momentum they had going into all of this that they crashed and burned, it didn't need to be this. This is on Cody and the Bucks for bullshitting around and Tony Khan for being a money mark with no vision.


I agree completely. Nothing but a bunch of geeks for the most part. Game over


----------



## rbl85

The XL 2 said:


> I really hate to say it, but the show is over folks. They've lost over half of their audience since their debut and took a crushing loss to NXT. Instead of trying to fill out their roster with actual professional wrestling, they filled it out with Codys friends and a bunch of goofy spot monkeys. They had a chance to do something special but they blew it. Look at NWAs roster, a ton of good talkers and workers who look like wrestlers, they should have gone after those guys. *They should have tried to sign or buy out the contracts of guys like Brian Cage, Jacob Fatu, Tessa Blanchard, Killer Kross, Tom Lawlor, etc.* But nah, they filled their roster out with guys like Joey Janella, Jimmy Havok, Marko Stunt, guys like that. What a fucking shame with the kind of momentum they had going into all of this that they crashed and burned, it didn't need to be this. This is on Cody and the Bucks for bullshitting around and Tony Khan for being a money mark with no vision.


In what fucking world do you live ?


----------



## #BadNewsSanta

I'm surprised NXT beat them so decisively in viewership... even if it was a post-ppv edition where they won big. Still, let's see what happens next week. If AEW continues losing or just barely manages a win, the tides may have turned and AEW will need to pull a rabbit out of their hat to get back in the lead. At the end of the day, Vince can always go to the Raw and Smackdown well to get NXT viewership up (whether he will continue to or not remains to be same). AEW has the stars they have, and otherwise I don't think there's really anyone they can get to boost numbers like that. Punk was probably their best chance, and even then that type of boost might have only been very temporary if they had managed to snag him. Short of someone managing to convince The Rock to do a show (which I can't ever see happening), AEW's viewership is almost entirely reliant on who they have, and the stories they tell. They do a great job with the in ring action, but I think someone else said it best (don't know if on here or I read somewhere else) where AEW needs to fans emotionally invested in the wrestlers themselves. I'm a big fan of Jericho, and I like what MJF brings to the table. However I'm not quite to the point where I'm really THAT invested in seeing either guy stay at the top/rise to the top respectively.

Maybe that's because they're heels though. But even looking at faces, Cody/Kenny Omega/Adam Page... they're all fine but I'm not naturally drawn to what they're doing unless I'm given a reason to. Be it the storyline itself being great or them working with someone I am invested in. Which speaking of, the only guy I'm really invested in seeing succeed in AEW right now is Moxley. 

The thing that something like NWA was doing right the first several weeks with Powerr (although they've fallen off a bit) is get me invested in a guy like Tim Storm. Through the video packages, promos, his match with Nick Aldis, his reaction afterwards... AEW puts on better matches weekly than that one was, but that one night got me pretty invested in Nick Storm. It made me want to see what he did the next episodes and want to see him get a title shot again, even though the stipulation to that match with Aldis prevents him from ever getting a world title shot again. This is a guy who I knew nothing about before watching the first episode of Powerr. That one episode made me a fan and made want to tune in the following week in part for him and to see where they would go with. I was a fan. I still kind of am, but the overall show has kind of lost a bit of luster as well and it feels like it's been a few episodes since they've done anything with him.

Anyway, my point is that's basically what AEW needs to figure out how to do. Part of it is finding the right guys. The other part is creating the promos/storyline that lead to us getting invested in said guys. That lead us to being invested in their matches and their triumphs. Easier said than done, but that's going to be a key thing for them if they want to grow the audience. You want to make the fans who watch it say to their friends/co-workers/whoever "AEW is a good show, x, y, and z did these things and it was awesome" and then hope that type of enthusiasm leads to creating new fans. Again, easier said than done, but it's what AEW needs at this point unless they can get a jackpot signing which I don't think is happening.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

RainmakerV2 said:


> How many of them were on or advertised this Wednesday? Lol. Face it, AEW put on a disappointing show and got its butt kicked. They aint dead or anything, but the trend aint good.


It doesn't matter if they were advertised or not. HHH was on Raw saying there was an open invitation to show up on NXT. They damn sure aren't going to send No Way Jose and Liz Morgan down there. Anyone with half a brain could tell they were going all in on NXT because of 1. they had been getting rocked in rating and 2. they were making them a part of Survivor Series and needed to build up the rivalries there as well.

Almost every actual AEW fan knew they missed the mark with this episode and were probably not going to win the ratings this week. Honestly, it there was going to be a miss this one was fine. NXT was coming off WarGames and a strong showing at Survivor Series and was going to pull a good rating. AEW still are higher in all the demo but 50+ though.


----------



## The XL 2

rbl85 said:


> In what fucking world do you live ?


The real world, where people want to watch wrestling and not goofball gymnast nonsense.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Schwartzxz said:


> I do not like this new forum but Im not gonna miss reading or hearing all the excuses from AEW marks. also Meltzer and Alvarez. this is too funny.


Well thank you for that invaluable contribution to the conversation.


----------



## Derek30

If I was in charge, I have Moxley open the show cutting a scathing promo. They just got their asses handed to them. He is the guy. He is the measuring stick. The suits may not think he's the #1 guy but he is going to leave scorched earth on his way to the top. Last week was a warning shot to Jericho. His cushy spot at the top is in serious danger. At the snap of a finger, Moxley can cave in the Inner Circle.

Get Moxley out there and tell him to turn the volume up to 100. The crowd will go nuts. He's as believable as it gets. Give Jericho a segment where he seems "off." Moxley has rattled him and he's just not the same. He's been spooked. Then you give the fans non stop action while mixing in promos and vignettes. Build Darby Allins story some more via vignettes. He's extremely relatable. Have MJF cut a promo.

I'd also love to see more of Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy. They should put themselves in tag title contention pronto.

Lots of things can be done to turn this around. Last week they were complacent and basically punted a show. They need a big bounce back show to get people interested again


----------



## rbl85

The XL 2 said:


> The real world, where people want to watch wrestling and not goofball gymnast nonsense.


They can't buy the contract of other wrestlers


----------



## 304418

The XL 2 said:


> I really hate to say it, but the show is over folks. They've lost over half of their audience since their debut and took a crushing loss to NXT. Instead of trying to fill out their roster with actual professional wrestling, they filled it out with Codys friends and a bunch of goofy spot monkeys. They had a chance to do something special but they blew it. Look at NWAs roster, a ton of good talkers and workers who look like wrestlers, they should have gone after those guys. They should have tried to sign or buy out the contracts of guys like Brian Cage, Jacob Fatu, Tessa Blanchard, Killer Kross, Tom Lawlor, etc. But nah, they filled their roster out with guys like Joey Janella, Jimmy Havok, Marko Stunt, guys like that. What a fucking shame with the kind of momentum they had going into all of this that they crashed and burned, it didn't need to be this. This is on Cody and the Bucks for bullshitting around and Tony Khan for being a money mark with no vision.


I don’t know about that. If anything, it’s a call to get back to basics. The PPVs they put on this past summer, along with the Road to... interviews and backstage contract signings were what everyone expected the tv show to be, more or less. They need to get back to the AEW style they started out with that made them popular in the first place, and be unapologetic about it. Because so far:

They`ve abandoned the Road to approach for weekly tv, even though they currently have a tv deal and should be able to reach a wider audience with those now.

They don’t do pre match interviews or post match interviews, even though they have 3 interviewers on staff, 4 if you count Schiavone.

Contract signings are still handled in a sports entertainment way.

They barely have old school matches with storytelling (just Cody and Dustin so far, maybe MJF) and have just been spamming PWG/X-Division kind of matches with Joshi matches sprinkled in and the occasional NJPW match when Kenny Omega gets involved.

They`re not really building to the next big show, which is Bash at the Beach.

Even aesthetically, they removed to company logo from the canvas, even though it made then stand out and invoked memories of WCW.

The various brawls, the Dark Order vignettes, and the way they've handled Moxley have been the only new things since they’ve started airing on tv.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Derek30 said:


> If I was in charge, I have Moxley open the show cutting a scathing promo. They just got their asses handed to them. He is the guy. He is the measuring stick. The suits may not think he's the #1 guy but he is going to leave scorched earth on his way to the top. Last week was a warning shot to Jericho. His cushy spot at the top is in serious danger. At the snap of a finger, Moxley can cave in the Inner Circle.
> 
> Get Moxley out there and tell him to turn the volume up to 100. The crowd will go nuts. He's as believable as it gets. Give Jericho a segment where he seems "off." Moxley has rattled him and he's just not the same. He's been spooked. Then you give the fans non stop action while mixing in promos and vignettes. Build Darby Allins story some more via vignettes. He's extremely relatable. Have MJF cut a promo.
> 
> I'd also love to see more of Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy. They should put themselves in tag title contention pronto.
> 
> Lots of things can be done to turn this around. Last week they were complacent and basically punted a show. They need a big bounce back show to get people interested again


Absolutely agree but Luchasaurus is still hurt. He's TV because he's over and they don't want to lose that but he is very limited. He walks with a noticeable limp and really isn't doing too many moves when he's in the ring.


----------



## Jedah

A lot of people here are gonna look really stupid this week when things start returning to normal. December's a bad month for wrestling though so don't be surprised if the numbers don't match November's on the whole.


----------



## Taroostyles

RainmakerV2 said:


> How many of them were on or advertised this Wednesday? Lol. Face it, AEW put on a disappointing show and got its butt kicked. They aint dead or anything, but the trend aint good.


They were the focal point of the ENTIRE Survivor Series show. They should have crushed them. They have the entire WWE machine behind them and that's what it took to beat AEW a few times. Bravo.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> They were the focal point of the ENTIRE Survivor Series show. They should have crushed them. They have the entire WWE machine behind them and that's what it took to beat AEW a few times. Bravo.


So are you willing to admit AEW completely shit the bed last week or attribute it all to Rollins and Lynch who weren't even there LOL


----------



## Chan Hung

I guess in a way and In fairness it was a holidays but still that it's a rather scary number let's just hope that it goes up this week


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Gotta love the doomsdayers..


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

We'll see how this shakes out in the oncoming weeks. Besides the viewership drop, the demo was their lowest but still beat nxt. 

9-0 in the demo.


----------



## ClintDagger

I’m surprised they went below 700k and I’m surprised they lost so big to NXT given how bad Raw and SD’s numbers were. But, it’s too early to panic. It is an odd time of year for ratings and therefore pretty hard to really get a clear picture for something so new as AEW. January and forward is where it will really be time to pay attention. I like what AEW is doing for the most part. I do think one unforgivable mistake was the follow up to MJF / Cody. I’m dumbfounded that they didn’t strike while the iron was hot there.


----------



## Chan Hung

ClintDagger said:


> I’m surprised they went below 700k and I’m surprised they lost so big to NXT given how bad Raw and SD’s numbers were. But, it’s too early to panic. It is an odd time of year for ratings and therefore pretty hard to really get a clear picture for something so new as AEW. January and forward is where it will really be time to pay attention. I like what AEW is doing for the most part. I do think one unforgivable mistake was the follow up to MJF / Cody. I’m dumbfounded that they didn’t strike while the iron was hot there.


Exactly wtf is with stupid butcher blade and bunny with a random Cody attack. Should have clearly been some sort of progress with MJF!


----------



## CMPunkRock316

AEW still beat their demo. Viewership was a bit lower than I expected though.


----------



## imthegame19

Chan Hung said:


> When do they really start to panic? Also, dont they have a fixed 2 or 3 year deal that assures them whatever the ratings TNT will keep them? Maybe theyll need to start sooner than NXT or After? Lol



Maybe if ratings fall to 500,000 viewers range and don't increase for months . Remember AEW had been doing way above expectations for a new company. I'm sure TNT never thought they would come close to 1 to 1.4 million viewers.

IMO lack of having ppv to build to with all these shows having very little stakes or storylines is hurting the show. Everything is just random matches and has no stakes. The show was doing well with like build to Full Gear/Tag Tourament etc. Then fall out from Full Gear show. The last two weeks has been pointless stuff. They need to start to build to something and start some heated feuds.

If it's me I start building a ppv like card or feuds for the Bash at the Beach shows. Then follow that with build to next ppv. Having everything in limbo and trying to drag out starting MJF/Cody or Moxley/Jericho feuds etc is causing people to lose interest. Especially when NXT has guys from Raw on or fall out from ppv where NXT was made to look like a big deal.


----------



## Corey

I just wanna chime in and say that the new forum fucking sucks.


----------



## Whysoserious?

Another example of get woke go broke. Nobody wants to watch weirdos like sonny kiss and Nyla rose


----------



## imthegame19

Whysoserious? said:


> Another example of get woke go broke. Nobody wants to watch weirdos like sonny kiss and Nyla rose


Lol they been on Dynamite like one time each. Which neither were on last week to cause a low rating. Please make sense if you are gonna post.


----------



## French Connection

Here we go, Bischoff is talking about the ratings.
Even if I think the guy can be harmful for any wrestling promotions nowadays, I mostly agree with his analysis.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The XL 2 said:


> I really hate to say it, but the show is over folks. They've lost over half of their audience since their debut and took a crushing loss to NXT. Instead of trying to fill out their roster with actual professional wrestling, they filled it out with Codys friends and a bunch of goofy spot monkeys. They had a chance to do something special but they blew it. Look at NWAs roster, a ton of good talkers and workers who look like wrestlers, they should have gone after those guys. They should have tried to sign or buy out the contracts of guys like Brian Cage, Jacob Fatu, Tessa Blanchard, Killer Kross, Tom Lawlor, etc. But nah, they filled their roster out with guys like Joey Janella, Jimmy Havok, Marko Stunt, guys like that. What a fucking shame with the kind of momentum they had going into all of this that they crashed and burned, it didn't need to be this. This is on Cody and the Bucks for bullshitting around and Tony Khan for being a money mark with no vision.


You're opinion is irrelevant to me. I will continue to support and give my attention to what interests and entertains me. Whether I am one or one of thousands, It don't matter to me.

What are you going to do about it to stop me?

Nothing.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

RainmakerV2 said:


> So are you willing to admit AEW completely shit the bed last week or attribute it all to Rollins and Lynch who weren't even there LOL


Why are you so obsessed with someone who is for AEW to admit that what they are watching sucks? What do you get out of it? Some personal pleasure? 

That's it. Isn't it? 

You have not been able to orgasm for weeks now and it is to the point now where you desperately need to hear those words from some faithful about how AEW sucks so you can finally release all this built up pressure in your loins and feel an ecstasy you have not felt before in your life.

That's what it has to be right? Otherwise who spends their time and energy on something they dislike? So it's gotta be that. No other answer.

Well, can I give you some advice? I would make the call to the emergency room because you are going to need their help with this 'problem' because NO ONE who is AEW is going to EVER going to give you your ecstasy.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

It was a garbage ass show they deserve the low rating. It feels like AEW has no plans going just the elite winging shit against the wall.

The divisions they have are dead. They have zero midcard going on 3 months later. They do zero follow up on feuds or storylines week to week. Its all random shit.

Butcher and blade was the dumbest shit ever. Where was MJF is he over Cody already , why turn heel with a big mexican dude?


----------



## Saintpat

Taroostyles said:


> They were the focal point of the ENTIRE Survivor Series show. They should have crushed them. They have the entire WWE machine behind them and that's what it took to beat AEW a few times. Bravo.


But to me that says they gave the wider audience a taste of the NXT roster and those people liked it.

And AEW’s main roster has been on display every Wednesday. It’s not like they’ve been held back.

We’ll see what happens here over time, but it’s not impossible to make the case that NXT as found a pretty steady audience while AEW’s has mostly trended downhill, and that people who have tried NXT like it while a smaller percentage of people who have checked out AEW have enjoyed it.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ripcitydisciple said:


> Why are you so obsessed with someone who is for AEW to admit that what they are watching sucks? What do you get out of it? Some personal pleasure?
> 
> That's it. Isn't it?
> 
> You have not been able to orgasm for weeks now and it is to the point now where you desperately need to hear those words from some faithful about how AEW sucks so you can finally release all this built up pressure in your loins and feel an ecstasy you have not felt before in your life.
> 
> That's what it has to be right? Otherwise who spends their time and energy on something they dislike? So it's gotta be that. No other answer.
> 
> Well, can I give you some advice? I would make the call to the emergency room because you are going to need their help with this 'problem' because NO ONE who is AEW is going to EVER going to give you your ecstasy.


No idea what youre talking about. AEW has put on good shows. I literally said one of their shows was the best wrestling show I've seen in years. But the supermarks who worship everything they do do need to make a concession that they need to change some things. Just going.."OH WWE USED BECKY AND ROLLINS THIS DOESNT COUNT BOOOO" is not the right reaction to this.


----------



## .christopher.

I mean, it's not surprising. AEW aren't going to catch up to WWE - WWE are going to fall down to AEW's numbers. Wrestling is on its deathbed, and this show that prioritises indy-esque wrestling isn't going to change that.


----------



## RBrooks

I can't seem to find quarter-hour segment by segment ratings, anybody has them?


----------



## RiverFenix

They gotta get the tag titles off of SCU. This is the original sin of AEW bad booking decisions. Lucha Brothers are so much more marketable and interesting to the casual fan and lax fan and they were coming off their wars with the Bucks. Instead they lose to a roll-up, lose in a three way and now are jobbing to Best Friends. LB, Bucks, Santana/Ortiz should be the focal point of the division - AEW isn't nearly established enough to be having secondary non-title centric feuds with it's tags yet.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

gronk7 said:


> i like aew - but nxt is just too good - cole and gargano are this generations steamboat and flair - how can aew compete against that -


Steamboat and flair vs Austin and Rock?

what would you prefer? Moxley is the most talented wrestler on this side of the Pacific. He is the only guy who could bring in a wrestling boom. Austin level? Soon.
MJF. Rock level? Let’s see. Very early days.


----------



## kingfrass44

ripcitydisciple said:


> Why are you so obsessed with someone who is for AEW to admit that what they are watching sucks? What do you get out of it? Some personal pleasure?
> 
> That's it. Isn't it?
> 
> You have not been able to orgasm for weeks now and it is to the point now where you desperately need to hear those words from some faithful about how AEW sucks so you can finally release all this built up pressure in your loins and feel an ecstasy you have not felt before in your life.
> 
> That's what it has to be right? Otherwise who spends their time and energy on something they dislike? So it's gotta be that. No other answer.
> 
> Well, can I give you some advice? I would make the call to the emergency room because you are going to need their help with this 'problem' because NO ONE who is AEW is going to EVER going to give you your ecstasy.




 


ripcitydisciple said:


> Why are you so obsessed with someone who is for AEW to admit that what they are watching sucks? What do you get out of it? Some personal pleasure?
> 
> That's it. Isn't it?
> 
> You have not been able to orgasm for weeks now and it is to the point now where you desperately need to hear those words from some faithful about how AEW sucks so you can finally release all this built up pressure in your loins and feel an ecstasy you have not felt before in your life.
> 
> That's what it has to be right? Otherwise who spends their time and energy on something they dislike? So it's gotta be that. No other answer.
> 
> Well, can I give you some advice? I would make the call to the emergency room because you are going to need their help with this 'problem' because NO ONE who is AEW is going to EVER going to give you your ecstasy.


you Marks Don't let me accept the truth.
Mean ecstasy 
ecstasy Hardcode going to lose Views


----------



## Taroostyles

Saintpat said:


> But to me that says they gave the wider audience a taste of the NXT roster and those people liked it.
> 
> And AEW’s main roster has been on display every Wednesday. It’s not like they’ve been held back.
> 
> We’ll see what happens here over time, but it’s not impossible to make the case that NXT as found a pretty steady audience while AEW’s has mostly trended downhill, and that people who have tried NXT like it while a smaller percentage of people who have checked out AEW have enjoyed it.


Not really cause NXTs number werent dramatically higher like you would expect from being co promoted on the 2 major brand shows. It was enough to eat into AEWs rating but not enough to get to 1m viewers even. I would have thought coming off one of the biggest WWE shows of the year where they were basically the whole focus that 1m viewers would be easily attainable for them. 

We all knew this was coming, Vince hates to lose and now hes throwing the kitchen sink at NXT to get the wins and it's worked for a couple weeks. Now AEW has to counterpunch, they need a big angle and a cliffhanger ending like they did in weeks 1 and 2.


----------



## Jonhern

What a lot of people are missing is that this is only traditional in-home cable viewing, on a busy travel day its not a surprising drop. The only way TNT is worried about this drop is if all the other data they have shows that people didn't bother to watch at all last week, but if the data shows that people still watched by other means, like at a relatives house or on the app, or if they watched it that weekend on DVR, then its not a cause of concern. This is why we shouldn't focus on the total viewers, it's not a true representation of the fan base and is not an indicator of a show's performance on cable. In the number that matters, they still did well in the demo too for the night. AEW is still the second highest-rated property for TNT behind the NBA. Anyone who thinks they are getting canceled even if they stay at these numbers is delusional. 

The big takeaway is that even with 150k margin, NXT still could not win in the demo, they will need to beat AEW by around 200k if they want to overcome them in that department because AEW skews much younger, and that's the number that brings in the ad dollars.


----------



## Chan Hung

Look I think WE are also forgetting this. NXT and the WWE just finished some ppvs on the network. They also were doing cross-brand promotions. It's very likely people thought more cross brand was going to happen. IT DID NOT. So, lets see if NXT stand alones will attract the same amount of viewers this week? If not, then we can all agree that the drop for NXT if it happens this week, was due to less main roster impact on NXT. I also feel that as some mentioned some AEW fans were switching over to NXT last week. Some may have been turned off by hour one. I don't agree that the Jericho celebration was a turn off; that shit usually garners higher ratings than just spot wrestling or long restholds. LOL


----------



## rbl85

RBrooks said:


> I can't seem to find quarter-hour segment by segment ratings, anybody has them?


I don't have the numbers but Meltzer said on the last podcast that NXT started the show with way more viewers than AEW.

He said that that after the first 45min of the show AEW started to gain viewers and AEW started to close the gap with NXT.
He also said that half of the audience of AEW was over 44 years old while half of the audience of NXT was over 55 years old.

The Omega/PAC match and the Jéricho/Sky match were the best segments in terms of viewers gain.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> Look I think WE are also forgetting this. NXT and the WWE just finished some ppvs on the network. They also were doing cross-brand promotions. It's very likely people thought more cross brand was going to happen. IT DID NOT. So, lets see if NXT stand alones will attract the same amount of viewers this week? If not, then we can all agree that the drop for NXT if it happens this week, was due to less main roster impact on NXT. I also feel that as some mentioned some AEW fans were switching over to NXT last week. *Some may have been turned off by hour one. I don't agree that the Jericho celebration was a turn off; that shit usually garners higher ratings than just spot wrestling or long restholds. LOL*


Meltzer said that AEW started way much lower than what they're used to do


----------



## K4L318

gronk7 said:


> i like aew - but nxt is just too good - cole and gargano are this generations steamboat and flair - how can aew compete against that -


I return to this forum, off of 5 years to say, brother you have no idea what you're talking about.


----------



## llj

I'm concerned. With the exception of the post Full Gear bump, numbers are rapidly cooling off. It doesn't help that the newness is wearing off and AEW's week to week booking is starting to be called into question.

Running a wrestling promotion isn't easy.


----------



## rbl85

AEW is victim of wanting to show a lot of new wrestlers too fast.


----------



## domotime2

i dont lame AEW really for anything. I think Dynamite has been mostly B+ or higher every week and i dont blame them that wrestling fans are fickle as hell and fall for WWE's tricks.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> AEW is victim of wanting to show a lot of new wrestlers too fast.


nah, they a victim of trying to book that show like Monday Night Raw. Their audience aint over 50. It never will be unless they land a Sting, Ryback or Edge. They opened last week wit an old demo and young kids said nah it aint for me. The rest of that night the show aint feel like a show until the Kenny and PAC match.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> nah, they a victim of trying to book that show like Monday Night Raw. *Their audience aint over 50. It never will be unless they land a Sting, Ryback or Edge*. They opened last week wit an old demo and young kids said nah it aint for me. The rest of that night the show aint feel like a show until the Kenny and PAC match.


They don't want the audience to be over 50.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> They don't want the audience to be over 50.


read what I wrote before that.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> read what I wrote before that.


I don't think they're trying to book like RAW or at least they're not consciously doing it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

K4L318 said:


> nah, they a victim of trying to book that show like Monday Night Raw. Their audience aint over 50. It never will be unless they land a Sting, Ryback or Edge. They opened last week wit an old demo and young kids said nah it aint for me. The rest of that night the show aint feel like a show until the Kenny and PAC match.


You’re right - last week did not feel like an AEW show - felt like WWE lite

hopefully they stop that shit - which I’m sure they will ????


----------



## iarwain

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed in AEW's numbers right now, even if I'm not calling doom. AEW is probably our last, best chance to get an alternative to WWE, and if it folds, I don't know I might just give up on watching wrestling altogether. 

WWE is trying to kill AEW, putting NXT on cable opposite it, then pushing it to the moon even at the expense of their main rosters. Also, I think people are a lot more likely to buy the WWE Network for $10 a month rather than shell out more for a PPV, which is what AEW has to use. Unfortunately. WWE has now established a formula to defeat AEW in the ratings: If AEW pulls ahead, just push NXT on the main roster more and put more main roster guest stars on NXT.


----------



## rbl85

I was on the side of the people who think that it's too soon to do the Moxley vs Jericho feud but now i think they really have to do it.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Fucking boomers trying to kill wrestling. Carnies.


----------



## Not Lying

Yeah It's a little sad to watch how the ratings went from 1.4m to less than half in a couple of month. Still, I think the show is doing alright establishing its own stars and getting more recognition, hopefully this is just a small set back before they emerge more forward.
With Jericho and Mox on the horizon, they have to make sure the show from top to bottom is captivating.


----------



## rbl85

They have to and should establish new stars but can they really afford it ?

I personally don't know


----------



## Gh0stFace

Love the marks trying to portray AEW as a failure


----------



## Chan Hung

iarwain said:


> I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little disappointed in AEW's numbers right now, even if I'm not calling doom. AEW is probably our last, best chance to get an alternative to WWE, and if it folds, I don't know I might just give up on watching wrestling altogether.
> 
> WWE is trying to kill AEW, putting NXT on cable opposite it, then pushing it to the moon even at the expense of their main rosters. Also, I think people are a lot more likely to buy the WWE Network for $10 a month rather than shell out more for a PPV, which is what AEW has to use. Unfortunately. WWE has now established a formula to defeat AEW in the ratings: If AEW pulls ahead, just push NXT on the main roster more and put more main roster guest stars on NXT.


This is what theyll always do. Throw in main roster stars for a quick fix


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> I was on the side of the people who think that it's too soon to do the Moxley vs Jericho feud but now i think they really have to do it.


The reason why you don't wait to do Jericho/Moxley is because you don't have challenger for Jericho other wise. You could have Moxley feud with Hager or Pac.

But you need to have big main event feud on your show to draw ratings. Having Jericho messing around with Scorpio Sky last two weeks might have gotten Sky some more exposure. But it appears also a lot of fans weren't interested. Because they knew Jericho wasn't going to lose and nothing else was going on.


The company has four main event baby faces and Jericho already faced Omega, Page and Cody. So right now they have no choice but to go to Moxley. Since after top four guys you got a guy like Darby Allin who isn't ready yet. Or veteran like Dustin Rhodes. Sure they could have built up Dustin for title feud on B ppv. But then they would hear oh two 50 years fighting for title. So I can understand why they aren't going in that direction.


So you do Moxley feud with Jericho now. Then it buys you time to add more talent next year(some guys will be leaving WWE and other indie talent will be FA)and build up in house talent. If you have another main event guy to have Jericho go through. Then you have luxury to wait to do Moxley/Jericho feud. But with AEW roster as is. Well it's time to do Jericho/Moxley now.


----------



## Gh0stFace

WWE is lame and boring. HOW THE FUCK are people enjoying that bullshit? AEW is the only organization that legit has me excited to see what's going to happen next... if they fold, I'm done with wrestling.


----------



## Gh0stFace

RAW go-home show is next week and they have 0 matches LMFAO. Fucking boomers trolling here GTFO


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Gh0stFace said:


> WWE is lame and boring. HOW THE FUCK are people enjoying that bullshit? AEW is the only organization that legit has me excited to see what's going to happen next... if they fold, I'm done with wrestling.


I agree with your assessment of wwe as it compares to AEW. I don't think we have to worry about AEW folding anytime soon.


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Gh0stFace said:


> RAW go-home show is next week and they have 0 matches LMFAO. Fucking boomers trolling here GTFO


I read your post and was like what go home show? Survivor Series was last weekend. Then I looked up that TLC was on the 16th. That is 3 weeks to build up to another PPV! That is insane.


----------



## imthegame19

Gh0stFace said:


> Love the marks trying to portray AEW as a failure


Yep you will see them all disappear when AEW back over 800,000 viewers next week and top 5 in 18-49 demos. I don't think people are factoring in how much Black Wednesday hurt AEW. That's a huge bar night out and big portion of AEW young demo clearly wasn't home to watch the show.


----------



## ClintDagger

I listened to Meltzer’s AEW ratings segment today and he said anything less than 875k this week will be a concern. That seems high to me but who knows. He also said the women’s segments are dying in the ratings, particularly in the key demo. AEW really needs to get past whatever criticism they fear they will get and move all of the women’s stuff to Dark until it’s ready for prime time.


----------



## RBrooks

rbl85 said:


> I was on the side of the people who think that it's too soon to do the Moxley vs Jericho feud but now i think they really have to do it.


Yep. I think they panicked and hotshoted that feud to improve ratings. Although we don't know if they'll be feuding right away, maybe it's a long-term storyline and we've only saw a tease. 

I mean, even without last weeks ratings, they're not stupid. They know NXT was being pushed hard by WWE lately, and they need to do something great, so they've probably decided to rush the feud.


----------



## Tilon

ClintDagger said:


> I listened to Meltzer’s AEW ratings segment today and he said anything less than 875k this week will be a concern. That seems high to me but who knows. He also said the women’s segments are dying in the ratings, particularly in the key demo. AEW really needs to get past whatever criticism they fear they will get and move all of the women’s stuff to Dark until it’s ready for prime time.


Absolutely. People keep clamoring for more TV time for the women as if that will help. If it stinks, it stinks. Meanwhile people you have on your payroll making MILLIONS are being underutilized.

It's time to Utilize Kenny. It's time to utilize these other big names. They've spent all their time putting new guys over but you can't just do that forever.

I was watching AEW Dark today and I just turned it off eventually. Nyla is garbage on commentary just like she's garbage in the ring. They have got to stop this constant trying to get every human being over. It's not going to happen.

Time to focus on what actually gave them the hype in the first place.


----------



## imthegame19

Tilon said:


> Absolutely. People keep clamoring for more TV time for the women as if that will help. If it stinks, it stinks. Meanwhile people you have on your payroll making MILLIONS are being underutilized.
> 
> It's time to Utilize Kenny. It's time to utilize these other big names. They've spent all their time putting new guys over but you can't just do that forever.
> 
> I was watching AEW Dark today and I just turned it off eventually. Nyla is garbage on commentary just like she's garbage in the ring. They have got to stop this constant trying to get every human being over. It's not going to happen.
> 
> Time to focus on what actually gave them the hype in the first place.


Kenny the one who is pushing for more tv time for the woman. He told Meltzer he rather sacrifice his tv time to make sure woman get enough time.


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> I listened to Meltzer’s AEW ratings segment today and he said anything less than 875k this week will be a concern. That seems high to me but who knows. He also said the women’s segments are dying in the ratings, particularly in the key demo. AEW really needs to get past whatever criticism they fear they will get and move all of the women’s stuff to Dark until it’s ready for prime time.


I think one woman's match on Dynamite is fine. But they really need to pick 5 or 6 girls to showcase. With only one of them being girl from Japan.


You can't have so many random girls on the show each week and expect people to care about the division. Put the rest of the woman on Dark and build them up. Heck recreate YouTube show just for woman if you need to. Then rotate the top 5 woman or so who are in the title picture. 

So the problem isn't the woman division itself. It's how they are booking it and probably putting too many woman from Japan. Tony Khan needs to talk to Kenny and tell them what he's doing isn't working.


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> I listened to Meltzer’s AEW ratings segment today and he said anything less than 875k this week will be a concern. That seems high to me but who knows. He also said the women’s segments are dying in the ratings, particularly in the key demo. AEW really needs to get past whatever criticism they fear they will get and move all of the women’s stuff to Dark until it’s ready for prime time.


I think one woman's match on Dynamite is fine. But they really need to pick 5 or 6 girls to showcase.


RBrooks said:


> Yep. I think they panicked and hotshoted that feud to improve ratings. Although we don't know if they'll be feuding right away, maybe it's a long-term storyline and we've only saw a tease.
> 
> I mean, even without last weeks ratings, they're not stupid. They know NXT was being pushed hard by WWE lately, and they need to do something great, so they've probably decided to rush the feud.


I disagree. Jericho already faced Omega, Page and Cody. They clearly had plans for Moxley/Jericho next. Other wise Cody wouldn't have announced Full Gear match stipulation. Or do the MJF turn on the show. All that ended Cody feud with Jericho and Inner circle and put his attention on MJF.

They could have easily dragged Cody/Jericho out. Doing Match Beyond in between(on say Bash at the Beach)and did rematch at February ppv. But they clearly wanted to do Moxley/Jericho feud next and have them feud December through February and maybe beyond.

In this day and age you gotta have guys feuding over the world title. If they were gonna save Moxley. They wouldn't have burned through Cody/Jericho so fast. Or built up Page or Omega to get back in the title scene. So all signs point to this to be the plan going a month plus back. Fact is if they don't do Moxley/Jericho feud now. Well then there's nothing for Jericho to do that would feel like a big deal or fresh.


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

I think Jericho should win and set up a triple threat or fatal four way feud with Mox, Y2J, Omega, and Pac. Then Y2J needs to drop the belt.

Moving the womens division to Dark is a bad idea it just admits you failed and have to reintroduce the title later on. Plus the roster is so damn thin they need to fill TV time.

AEW needs more hires asap and flesh out divisions. They have like 4 main event guys, and zero midcard. Half the roster is enhancement jobbers. Why is there no midcard title i keep asking it makes zero sense. You have time for a fucking diamond ring but not a midcard title for them. pathetic.


----------



## RBrooks

imthegame19 said:


> I think one woman's match on Dynamite is fine. But they really need to pick 5 or 6 girls to showcase.
> 
> 
> I disagree. Jericho already faced Omega, Page and Cody. They clearly had plans for Moxley/Jericho next. Other wise Cody wouldn't have announced Full Gear match stipulation. Or do the MJF turn on the show. All that ended Cody feud with Jericho and Inner circle and put his attention on MJF.
> 
> They could have easily dragged Cody/Jericho out. Doing Match Beyond in between(on say Bash at the Beach)and did rematch at February ppv. But they clearly wanted to do Moxley/Jericho feud next and have them feud December through February and maybe beyond.
> 
> In this day and age you gotta have guys feuding over the world title. If they were gonna save Moxley. They wouldn't have burned through Cody/Jericho so fast. Or built up Page or Omega to get back in the title scene. So all signs point to this to be the plan going a month plus back. Fact is if they don't do Moxley/Jericho feud now. Well then there's nothing for Jericho to do that would feel like a big deal or fresh.


I mean, I get all that. I just thought they'll drag things out a little bit more. Feuding Jericho with Mox would've made a lot more sense if they waited to compete with NXT during WM Takeover in March and going forward. And also feels like Jericho should be Le Champion for a while longer. Maybe Mox will get screwed and lose, who knows.


----------



## RainmakerV2

They dont need to beat NXT but they need to get back to 800K at least. Theres no holiday and no sports competition. I think Meltzer is a little high with 875. 850 would be fine. 800 is a bare minimum. Anything under that and its time to start rethinking things.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I doubt they'll really end up beating NxT in the ratings in the long run, and having that 600-800K loyal fanbase who watch every single week. NxT may just succeed in having that solid 600-800K people who watch every week, and I don't particularly like NxT but can see their roster is far far better than AEW's.

The mistake AEW made was having no clearcut vision of who you're catering to and what you want your product to be like and centred around. They fail because they're not even clear on their vision(They= Cody, Kenny et all).

If they were smart, they'd not have wasted money/resources on talent like women wrestlers who don't draw shit(never have, never will), especially considering how even foolish WWE failed in their women's revolution crap despite having access to Ronda and a better women's roster(not that even that kind of a roster results in increased viewership or live attendance). So yeah,AEW are fucking stupid for not having done the right thing and just allow WWE to be PC and go on with their BS feminist/femcentric "women can be maineventers" nonsense while they strictly skip/refrain from wssting resourses in order to be PC or please people. (Because at the end of the day, people who want womens wrestling garbage can always check out other companies. AEW should've stuck with 18-35 bloodthirsty horny adult man/woman demographic).

They could've already been unique by utilizing women merely as Valets/Interviewers/Objects, like Lana and Mandy Rose.

They would've known that trash like Nyla, Sonny Kiss, Dark order, Marko stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy(about 70% of their roster basically) isn't going to compel people to become loyal AEW fans

Either they should've 1)started with an hour-long TV show allowing them to have to only put out a solid men's division and tag teams and promos, or 2)partnered with ROH/NJPW and acquired more talent for a 2-hr show.

As it stands, AEW will keep losing to NxT


----------



## K4L318

Deathiscoming said:


> I doubt they'll really end up beating NxT in the ratings in the long run, and having that 600-800K loyal fanbase who watch every single week. NxT may just succeed in having that solid 600-800K people who watch every week, and I don't particularly like NxT but can see their roster is far far better than AEW's.
> 
> The mistake AEW made was having no clearcut vision of who you're catering to and what you want your product to be like and centred around. They fail because they're not even clear on their vision(They= Cody, Kenny et all).
> 
> If they were smart, they'd not have wasted money/resources on talent like women wrestlers who don't draw shit(never have, never will), especially considering how even foolish WWE failed in their women's revolution crap despite having access to Ronda and a better women's roster(not that even that kind of a roster results in increased viewership or live attendance). So yeah,AEW are fucking stupid for not having done the right thing and just allow WWE to be PC and go on with their BS feminist/femcentric "women can be maineventers" nonsense while they strictly skip/refrain from wssting resourses in order to be PC or please people. (Because at the end of the day, people who want womens wrestling garbage can always check out other companies. AEW should've stuck with 18-35 bloodthirsty horny adult man/woman demographic).
> 
> They could've already been unique by utilizing women merely as Valets/Interviewers/Objects, like Lana and Mandy Rose.
> 
> They would've known that trash like Nyla, Sonny Kiss, Dark order, Marko stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy(about 70% of their roster basically) isn't going to compel people to become loyal AEW fans
> 
> Either they should've 1)started with an hour-long TV show allowing them to have to only put out a solid men's division and tag teams and promos, or 2)partnered with ROH/NJPW and acquired more talent for a 2-hr show.
> 
> As it stands, AEW will keep losing to NxT



bruh ya gotta be like pushing late 40s or something.

Not one bit of what you said made sense.

And this aint no flame. But reading this thread you'd think nobody ever went out during the holidays in their lives. I dvr'd AEW Dynamite cuz I had to take a flight to NY to visit my girl's parents.


----------



## ClintDagger

imthegame19 said:


> Kenny the one who is pushing for more tv time for the woman. He told Meltzer he rather sacrifice his tv time to make sure woman get enough time.


Which is basically Kenny saying the business side of things be damned, I’m going to push my vanity projects and flush some of Tony’s money & TNTs ratings down the toilet. That’s a very WWE view of things. Vince & Stephanie pretty much run WWE as a vanity project too. Pushing stuff that is good for them personally but not good for shareholders, stakeholders, or fans.


----------



## roadkill_

Deathiscoming said:


> If they were smart, they'd not have wasted money/resources on talent like women wrestlers who don't draw shit(never have, never will), especially considering how even foolish WWE failed in their women's revolution crap.


There a centralized, top-down decree across all mainstream entertainment right now to push x-wave feminism. From Call of Duty to AEW. It's the same in the workplace with gender quotas; plenty of companies are penalized for not recruiting a quota of women, even if there are better men for the job. When these women fuck up and can't hack it, the company incurs a loss - but the establishment makes sure to make the fine bigger. I know plenty of companies who simply hire women and wait for them to quit as a more cost-effective way of incurring fines.

I'm not saying AEW would get sanctioned - just not officially. Anyway, Rhodes doesn't help with his woke bullshit.


----------



## shadows123

ClintDagger said:


> Which is basically Kenny saying the business side of things be damned, I’m going to push my vanity projects and flush some of Tony’s money & TNTs ratings down the toilet. That’s a very WWE view of things. Vince & Stephanie pretty much run WWE as a vanity project too. Pushing stuff that is good for them personally but not good for shareholders, stakeholders, or fans.


Think of it more along the lines of "Corporate Social Responsibility" and "positive PR" more than immediate quantification in terms of money... plus not doing would raise more bad repercussions for the company and ultimately monetary loss resulting from the backlash. Of course, it doesnt mean you put them in the main event like WWE did without giving them an organic build to becoming a draw in their own right. Also doesnt mean they dont have a place in programming.

P.S: Kenny Omega is probably saying that to get himself a positive PR rather than actually having to sacrifice any ring time in reality.


----------



## imthegame19

Deathiscoming said:


> I doubt they'll really end up beating NxT in the ratings in the long run, and having that 600-800K loyal fanbase who watch every single week. NxT may just succeed in having that solid 600-800K people who watch every week, and I don't particularly like NxT but can see their roster is far far better than AEW's.
> 
> The mistake AEW made was having no clearcut vision of who you're catering to and what you want your product to be like and centred around. They fail because they're not even clear on their vision(They= Cody, Kenny et all).
> 
> If they were smart, they'd not have wasted money/resources on talent like women wrestlers who don't draw shit(never have, never will), especially considering how even foolish WWE failed in their women's revolution crap despite having access to Ronda and a better women's roster(not that even that kind of a roster results in increased viewership or live attendance). So yeah,AEW are fucking stupid for not having done the right thing and just allow WWE to be PC and go on with their BS feminist/femcentric "women can be maineventers" nonsense while they strictly skip/refrain from wssting resourses in order to be PC or please people. (Because at the end of the day, people who want womens wrestling garbage can always check out other companies. AEW should've stuck with 18-35 bloodthirsty horny adult man/woman demographic).
> 
> They could've already been unique by utilizing women merely as Valets/Interviewers/Objects, like Lana and Mandy Rose.
> 
> They would've known that trash like Nyla, Sonny Kiss, Dark order, Marko stunt, Darby Allin, Orange Cassidy(about 70% of their roster basically) isn't going to compel people to become loyal AEW fans
> 
> Either they should've 1)started with an hour-long TV show allowing them to have to only put out a solid men's division and tag teams and promos, or 2)partnered with ROH/NJPW and acquired more talent for a 2-hr show.
> 
> As it stands, AEW will keep losing to NxT


Or NXT beat Dynamite two weeks ago because they had half the Raw roster on their show. While last week NXT had a ppv fall out and large portion of Dynamite younger audience was out for black Wednesay. This is normal week, so before you say All that nonsense. You should probably wait and see how things go down this week. Because AEW has still beat them what 7 of 9 weeks and things could easily go back to that this week.



ClintDagger said:


> Which is basically Kenny saying the business side of things be damned, I’m going to push my vanity projects and flush some of Tony’s money & TNTs ratings down the toilet. That’s a very WWE view of things. Vince & Stephanie pretty much run WWE as a vanity project too. Pushing stuff that is good for them personally but not good for shareholders, stakeholders, or fans.


I think it's more the make division has Moxley, Jericho, Cody, Omega, Pac, Page and Hager. Wrestling fans seen them before and know who they are. Same goes for tag division fans know Young Bucks, Lucha Bros, Santana/Ortiz and SCU before AEW. The woman's division is filled with a bunch or unknowns.


So I can understand why he's passionate to get the division over. It's just not working because they are trying to showcase too many woman at once and probably pushing some of the wrong woman. Women usually get one match on Dynamite and many of the woman aren't signed fully to AEW. So it's a bit dramatic to say Omega flushing ratings and Khan money down the drain. I get what Kenny trying to do. He's just trying to squeeze in too many woman in too little time and nobody getting over that way.


----------



## rbl85

The problem is that the same amount of people are "crying" because there is not enought women on the show


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> The problem is that the same amount of people are "crying" because there is not enought women on the show


Which I can understand. They have like 10-15 girls and get one match on Dynamite and one on Dark per week. It's hard to get that many woman on tv each week.

But at same time Dynamite wants to draw ratings and need to have their ratings draws in at least 3 segments per show. So then woman get split with tag and mid card guys. I can't see the time increasing much for the woman.

So if I was Tony Khan I would make another YouTube show just for the woman. Have them do interviews and 2-3 matches a week on it. With Dark going more interviews with mid card and tag guys in 2-3 matches per week(along with Dynamite highlights). You build them up on those shows for Dynamite.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> The problem is that the same amount of people are "crying" because there is not enought women on the show


cuz they aint capitalizing wit the division. All they do is show Brandi in stories of power.


----------



## incomplete moron

600 k viewers wow..that's pretty bad. I dunno why they're losing viewers like that cuz imo they put consistently good to great shows every week..maybe they should start pushing marko stunt as THE guy and FOTC, guy has charisma in spades,can work in the ring,awesome mic skills,look etc,I don't see why they have him losing all the time,at this point it's only a matter of time til he loses his star aura,if they keep constantly jobbing him out


----------



## K4L318

incomplete moron said:


> 600 k viewers wow..that's pretty bad. I dunno why they're losing viewers like that cuz imo they put consistently good to great shows every week..maybe they should start pushing marko stunt as THE guy and FOTC, guy has charisma in spades,can work in the ring,awesome mic skills,look etc,I don't see why they have him losing all the time,at this point it's only a matter of time til he loses his star aura,if they keep constantly jobbing him out


or dont start a show wit a 15 min in ring promo celebrating a heel wit that pay off only being SCU making a save.


----------



## incomplete moron

K4L318 said:


> or dont start a show wit a 15 min in ring promo celebrating a heel wit that pay off only being SCU making a save.


why, what's wrong with that? it was solid segment imo, although they had some trouble with mic, that was unacceptable for any ''major'' company, which they portray themselves as


----------



## rbl85

incomplete moron said:


> why, what's wrong with that? it was solid segment imo, although they had some trouble with mic, that was unacceptable for any ''major'' company, which they portray themselves as


The young audience is not really interested by the long promos.


----------



## Jonhern

incomplete moron said:


> 600 k viewers wow..that's pretty bad. I dunno why they're losing viewers like that cuz imo they put consistently good to great shows every week..maybe they should start pushing marko stunt as THE guy and FOTC, guy has charisma in spades,can work in the ring,awesome mic skills,look etc,I don't see why they have him losing all the time,at this point it's only a matter of time til he loses his star aura,if they keep constantly jobbing him out


It's because of the holiday, someone on Reddit posted the DVR +3 ratings and AEW gained a lot, NXT up to 986k and AEW to 972k. So all those people didn't stop watching. They just watched on delay because they were busy with other things because of thanksgiving. The numbers are higher than that even, because this still doesn't count people that watched elsewhere, if you are Nielson family it only counts if you watch it in your home, not if you are at relatives or hotel. Out of home viewing is probably not big for a wrestling show like other sports, but it could be significant on a busy travel day like the day before thanksgiving. Sorry to some in here but there is no doom and gloom, they are doing just fine.


----------



## DOTL

It's funny. NXT just beat AEW in the ratings twice and people are talking like its the end. Aew won 7 weeks straight and no one was talking about the end of NXT.


----------



## rbl85

DOTL said:


> It's funny. NXT just beat AEW in the ratings twice and people are talking like its the end. Aew won 7 weeks straight and no one was talking about the end of NXT.


The situation is not the same for the 2 show.
NXT can always go back to the WWE network if USA is not happy.
AEW have nowhere else to go.


----------



## kingfrass44

K4L318 said:


> bruh ya gotta be like pushing late 40s or something.
> 
> Not one bit of what you said made sense.
> 
> And this aint no flame. But reading this thread you'd think nobody ever went out during the holidays in their lives. I dvr'd AEW Dynamite cuz I had to take a flight to NY to visit my girl's parents.


You mark
What he's saying is true and You mark
roster trash
will defeat nxt But they won't get a million again.
dvr'd Numbers don't count And dvr'd doesn't matter.


----------



## incomplete moron

rbl85 said:


> The young audience is not really interested by the long promos.


 you mean ''in long promos'', not ''by''
yes they are, promos and characters and charisma is what drives people in, both yound and old. why do u think attitude era was the most successful one yet? certainly not cuz of teh ring workz 



Jonhern said:


> It's because of the holiday, someone on Reddit posted the DVR +3 ratings and AEW gained a lot, NXT up to 986k and AEW to 972k. So all those people didn't stop watching. They just watched on delay because they were busy with other things because of thanksgiving. The numbers are higher than that even, because this still doesn't count people that watched elsewhere, if you are Nielson family it only counts if you watch it in your home, not if you are at relatives or hotel. Out of home viewing is probably not big for a wrestling show like other sports, but it could be significant on a busy travel day like the day before thanksgiving. Sorry to some in here but there is no doom and gloom, they are doing just fine.


lol c'mon man, even the blindest aew mark can't believe that..excuses on top of excuses.. pathetic tbh..
yes,there is ''doom'', not only cuz of this particular last rating, but cuz,even if they aalways beat nxt,and even if they draw 1 to even 1.5 mil viewers etc, it won't matter cuz nxt is extremely unpopular and unimportant so them ''beating'' some c ''brand'' means literally nothing, and with that (imaginary and unattainable, by all accounts) pathetic 1.5 mils that's still not even close to 2-2.5 ratings that raw and smackdown get (on their worst days,sometimes they even get 3 mil). which means that, objectively speaking and with no bias whatsoever, that aew is by and large extreme failure, cuz they talked the big talk and boasted and talked that they'll beat wwe and become nr 1 wrestling company etc, presenting themselves so gloriously etc etc, and all of that with almost half a million viewers?! phaha, pathetic as sheet m8.
NOW,on the other hand, had they been more..like, humbled, realistic, less arrogant etc, and said from the beginning that they're just another indy irrelevant company, that they have no intention to compete with wwe etc, that would be 'nother story, in that case they wouldn't, at least not necessarily, be losers/failures, they'd still be schmucks ofc but not that much, compared to the first case so..time to aew marks to accept reality I'm afraid..I mean I, for the most part,also like aew (not jobber and geek trash like..u know haha, but they also have cool characters,matches,segments etc), but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna act like a blind pathetic irrational mark and always come up with lame excuses for them etc


----------



## Jonhern

incomplete moron said:


> you mean ''in long promos'', not ''by''
> yes they are, promos and characters and charisma is what drives people in, both yound and old. why do u think attitude era was the most successful one yet? certainly not cuz of teh ring workz
> 
> 
> lol c'mon man, even the blindest aew mark can't believe that..excuses on top of excuses.. pathetic tbh..
> yes,there is ''doom'', not only cuz of this particular last rating, but cuz,even if they aalways beat nxt,and even if they draw 1 to even 1.5 mil viewers etc, it won't matter cuz nxt is extremely unpopular and unimportant so them ''beating'' some c ''brand'' means literally nothing, and with that (imaginary and unattainable, by all accounts) pathetic 1.5 mils that's still not even close to 2-2.5 ratings that raw and smackdown get (on their worst days,sometimes they even get 3 mil). which means that, objectively speaking and with no bias whatsoever, that aew is by and large extreme failure, cuz they talked the big talk and boasted and talked that they'll beat wwe and become nr 1 wrestling company etc, presenting themselves so gloriously etc etc, and all of that with almost half a million viewers?! phaha, pathetic as sheet m8.
> NOW,on the other hand, had they been more..like, humbled, realistic, less arrogant etc, and said from the beginning that they're just another indy irrelevant company, that they have no intention to compete with wwe etc, that would be 'nother story, in that case they wouldn't, at least not necessarily, be losers/failures, they'd still be schmucks ofc but not that much, compared to the first case so..time to aew marks to accept reality I'm afraid..I mean I, for the most part,also like aew (not jobber and geek trash like..u know haha, but they also have cool characters,matches,segments etc), but that doesn't mean that I'm gonna act like a blind pathetic irrational mark and always come up with lame excuses for them etc


IDK if I should even respond to this, but you do realize because they have a younger audience if there were able to get 1.5 million again they would actually be matching RAW in the ratings. The first show got a .68 with 1.4million, RAW this week got a .69. and no one was thinking they would beat RAW right away, and the only reason there is a comparison to NXT is the WWE moved them there. But even looking at it compared to raw, as I have said before, they are performing well for a new company.


----------



## incomplete moron

Jonhern said:


> IDK if I should even respond to this, but you do realize because they have a younger audience if there were able to get 1.5 million again they would actually be matching RAW in the ratings. The first show got a .68 with 1.4million, RAW this week got a .69. and no one was thinking they would beat RAW right away, and the only reason there is a comparison to NXT is the WWE moved them there. But even looking at it compared to raw, as I have said before, they are performing well for a new company.


yes, I'm aware of the demo, and u'r right, difference in demo isn't very big, but what really matters is overall ratings,not just demo. and sometimes they get beat even in demo lol.
well they won't beat raw ever unfortunately, if they don't change ASAP some of the things that don't work that pushes people away (darby allen, luchasaurus,mox,cody etc). and even then, even if they start pushing right people (marko, jericho, mjf, brandon cutler,to name a few) and demote untalented ones that nobody cares about (mox,cody etc), they still probably won't beat raw so..pipe dream unfortunately, cuz I want them to succeed cuz wwe sux.
yes, they perform relatively well for new company not even close what they wanted,they had huge appetites


----------



## imthegame19

If you look at the numbers it's easy to see why AEW did poor. Large number NXT viewership is 50+ year olds. AEW viewership 18+49 year olds. NXT last week did .24 in 18-49&.4 in 50+. Prior two weeks they did .3 (Raw invasion)&.25 in 18-49 year olds .35&.40 in 50+. Very little shift besides increase of 18+49 when Raw guys on. Now look at AEW. They did .26 in 18-49 year olds,.25 in 50+ last week. Prior two weeks they did. .39 in 18-49, .29 in 50+ & .43 in 18-49 and .29 in 50+.


So when you look at the numbers there one major drop off& that's 18-49 audience for AEW. Reason,they go out on Black Wednesday. So this being normal week with with no Raw invasion and no holiday night. Well things should go back to normal with AEW winning. Since they should get their 18-49 audience back with them not out partying.

Since basically NXT had their normal audience watching the show (demos show that) . Which lead to a normal rating of 810,000 got them. While AEW had a large portion of their audience not watching last week. Which lead to huge drop off from their normal rating.


----------



## incomplete moron

they perform relatively well for new company,BUT not even close etc*

don't know why I can't edit comment lol pathetic


----------



## The XL 2

ripcitydisciple said:


> You're opinion is irrelevant to me. I will continue to support and give my attention to what interests and entertains me. Whether I am one or one of thousands, It don't matter to me.
> 
> What are you going to do about it to stop me?
> 
> Nothing.


Lmao, who are you? I couldn't give a fuck what you watch or what you support. I'm commentating on the situation at hand, not your meaningless feelings about it.


----------



## rbl85

The XL 2 said:


> Lmao, who are you? I couldn't give a fuck what you watch or what you support. I'm commentating on the situation at hand, not your meaningless feelings about it.


So his opinion is meaningless but yours is important ?


----------



## The XL 2

rbl85 said:


> So his opinion is meaningless but yours is important ?


He's the one who quoted me and brought all of this up. I don't even know who this jabroni is, lol.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'll go out on a limb and predict that this week's rating will increase. It should, if it doesn't then


----------



## DOTL

rbl85 said:


> The situation is not the same for the 2 show.
> NXT can always go back to the WWE network if USA is not happy.
> AEW have nowhere else to go.


I'm just talking about the amount of time it took for people to be concerned, not the fact that people are concerned.


----------



## Tilon

imthegame19 said:


> Kenny the one who is pushing for more tv time for the woman. He told Meltzer he rather sacrifice his tv time to make sure woman get enough time.


Yeah, it's about the stupidest thing he's ever said. He's way too humble.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The XL 2 said:


> Lmao, who are you? I couldn't give a fuck what you watch or what you support. I'm commentating on the situation at hand,* not your meaningless feelings about it.*


 Says the one who thinks everyone on here waits with bated breath to read the next 'brilliant' thoughts that come out of your head.

Pot meet kettle.


----------



## imthegame19

Tilon said:


> Yeah, it's about the stupidest thing he's ever said. He's way too humble.


And look tonight he and Sabian is on Dark. When that match should be on Dynamite. I wouldn't be surprised if he got him and Sabian moved to dark. So they could do all the stuff with Nyla Rose.


----------



## bdon

incomplete moron said:


> yes, I'm aware of the demo, and u'r right, difference in demo isn't very big, but what really matters is overall ratings,not just demo. and sometimes they get beat even in demo lol.
> well they won't beat raw ever unfortunately, if they don't change ASAP some of the things that don't work that pushes people away (darby allen, luchasaurus,mox,cody etc). and even then, even if they start pushing right people (marko, jericho, mjf, brandon cutler,to name a few) and demote untalented ones that nobody cares about (mox,cody etc), they still probably won't beat raw so..pipe dream unfortunately, cuz I want them to succeed cuz wwe sux.
> yes, they perform relatively well for new company not even close what they wanted,they had huge appetites


My God.

How old is this kid?


----------



## The Wood

Oof, that rating. I’m sure the holiday impacts them slightly, but there’s no logical reason to think that it doesn’t impact NXT as much.


----------



## The XL 2

ripcitydisciple said:


> Says the one who thinks everyone on here waits with bated breath to read the next 'brilliant' thoughts that come out of your head.
> 
> Pot meet kettle.


When did I ever say anything of the sort? You seem unhinged, honestly.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I did note that AEW was very cognizant of the rating tonight. For the first time that I can recall, they repeatedly mentioned not to turn the channel and watch the PiP. So they were a bit shook by the last rating. I am pulling for them to win this week.


----------



## TheFiend666

imthegame19 said:


> Yep you will see them all disappear when AEW back over 800,000 viewers next week and top 5 in 18-49 demos. I don't think people are factoring in how much Black Wednesday hurt AEW. That's a huge bar night out and big portion of AEW young demo clearly wasn't home to watch the show.


Wanna bet? lmao


----------



## K4L318

kingfrass44 said:


> You mark
> What he's saying is true and You mark
> roster trash
> will defeat nxt But they won't get a million again.
> dvr'd Numbers don't count And dvr'd doesn't matter.


you 14?


----------



## xio8ups

Who wants to watch fake fights anymore in 2019


----------



## Intimidator3

They need to do more places like Champaign. I think I saw where they’re doing a show at University of Miami soon. Not only are they almost guaranteed a rowdy crowd, but word of mouth on a college campus is nothing but good.


----------



## imthegame19

TheFiend666 said:


> Wanna bet? lmao


Yes


----------



## incomplete moron

bdon said:


> My God.
> 
> How old is this kid?


what kid?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

xio8ups said:


> Who wants to watch fake fights anymore in 2019


?‍♂


----------



## ripcitydisciple

imthegame19 said:


> If you look at the numbers it's easy to see why AEW did poor. Large number NXT viewership is 50+ year olds. AEW viewership 18+49 year olds. NXT last week did .24 in 18-49&.4 in 50+. Prior two weeks they did .3 (Raw invasion)&.25 in 18-49 year olds .35&.40 in 50+. Very little shift besides increase of 18+49 when Raw guys on. Now look at AEW. They did .26 in 18-49 year olds,.25 in 50+ last week. Prior two weeks they did. .39 in 18-49, .29 in 50+ & .43 in 18-49 and .29 in 50+.
> 
> 
> So when you look at the numbers there one major drop off& that's 18-49 audience for AEW. Reason,they go out on Black Wednesday. So this being normal week with with no Raw invasion and no holiday night. Well things should go back to normal with AEW winning. Since they should get their 18-49 audience back with them not out partying.
> 
> Since basically NXT had their normal audience watching the show (demos show that) . Which lead to a normal rating of 810,000 got them. While AEW had a large portion of their audience not watching last week. Which lead to huge drop off from their normal rating.


Thank you for pointing this out. I don't know if others have made the point as well, maybe they have and I missed it.( I am not interested in reading 10+ pages to find out.) Everyone week there is a discussion about the demographics between the two shows and their importance. If there was ever a week to validate that talk it was last week.

For those saying the demographics don't matter, let me ask this; Which group is likely to go out party, drink and socialize on a Holiday, like Thanksgiving and which group is going to stay home?

The 18-49 or the +50? Which group belongs to which scenario?


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The XL 2 said:


> When did I ever say anything of the sort? You seem unhinged, honestly.


Thank you for the 2019 response.


----------



## Stevieg786

Ratings out tomorrow?


----------



## rbl85

Stevieg786 said:


> Ratings out tomorrow?


Today


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ratings are due at their normal time today. The Thanksgiving hangover is over.


----------



## A PG Attitude

Can't wait for ratings to come out and shut up the doom mongerers.


----------



## K4L318

A PG Attitude said:


> Can't wait for ratings to come out and shut up the doom mongerers.


Im quoting the kiddies that decided to do that too.


----------



## RiverFenix

I'll predict AEW back over 800K viewers, but loses to NXT again. I think that is baked in at this point with Vince doing enough to attract enough main brand viewers to watch NXT.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

If they don't attract at least 800K I'll be disappointed. I assume they'll continue their demo win streak though.


----------



## incomplete moron

800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


----------



## K4L318

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


if they do 800K will you delete your account and never come back?


----------



## A PG Attitude

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


Your life must be very boring


----------



## RiverFenix

It looks weird as hell as folks look like they're arguing against ghosts. Folks utilize the ignore function and don't worry about arguing with overt trolls. Under the new board they don't even show up in your thread. Not sure if they even show up in quotes by others who you haven't ignored.


----------



## Deathiscoming

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


Lmao judging by the trash they put on (more women's wrestling, female King Kong, Nyla Rose, Brandi, Jurassic express, young bucks) they'd be lucky if they get 600-650K. I expect them to soon fall to 300-400K viewers per show as well. I give it 3 months. Especially if NxT raises the bar come Wrestlemania season.

And it's like the WWE didn't even have to do much, except the few weeks leading into Survivor Series. But after SS, the fault is with AEW because NxT is NxT(no invasion). Like Vince would say, "AEW screwed AEW" with their trash roster, women's wrestling, Cringy garbage, and floppy spot monkeys like young bucks. They could've focussed on PAC/Page/Omega but no! AEW screwed AEW.

And it's my loss too because I don't like NxT(too many skinny midgets, bunch of women wrestlers, and stupid stuff like Matt Riddle "bro" crap). But even I can see NxT would appeal to many more people over AEW.

I wanted to switch to NxT but two things prevented that:-
1)Inconsistency. I like Damien Priest but he barely shows up/wrestles once a month, so I hate that. Or Walter, Pete Dunn etc. 
2)Too many women's segments/matches and a woman-centric show leads me to believe HHH will have 50-60% of his shows filled with fuckin women and soon Rhea Ripley will be main eventing. So what's the point in devoting yourself to a show because of a cool motherfucker like Damien Priest when HHH idiot would rather stuff his roster/product with wannabe badass bunch of boring ugly cunts like Shayna and Rhea?! 

AEW isn't helping either.


----------



## MrThortan

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> It looks weird as hell as folks look like they're arguing against ghosts. Folks utilize the ignore function and don't worry about arguing with overt trolls. Under the new board they don't even show up in your thread. Not sure if they even show up in quotes by others who you haven't ignored.


When you ignore someone their quotes don't show up, so it can be hard to determine what the hell a post is about.


----------



## RainmakerV2

You know hes trolling right lol


----------



## Ace

AEW needs to fill out their roster, the lack of depth is going to kill them.

WWE were wise in overpaying and keeping people locked into 5 year deals if it means AEW is done within 5 years.

AEW desperately needs 4-5 more frustrated wrestlers in WWE to make the jump and not sign on 5 years for double or triple with the WWE.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> AEW needs to fill out their roster, the lack of depth is going to kill them.
> 
> WWE were wise in overpaying and keeping people locked into 5 year deals if it means AEW is done within 5 years.
> 
> AEW desperately needs 4-5 more frustrated wrestlers in WWE to make the jump and not sign on 5 years for double or triple with the WWE.


Lack of depth is a concern. There are only so many permutations of their top guys on a weekly tv show before it feels like more of the same. Hopoefully they'll get some fresh new talent or get over some of the midcarders.


----------



## HankHill_85

I wouldn't be surprised if NXT wins this week. That show's been killing it lately and they've managed to keep things interesting post-War Games and Survivor Series.

AEW, I gotta admit, has lost some of its shine in recent weeks. Last week's show in Chicago should've been amazing with all that was advertised, but it just felt "off" to me, I don't know what other word to use in order to describe it. Last night was an improvement, but it could've been better.

I honestly think there's actually TOO MUCH wrestling on Dynamite. I get that they want to present what they feel is the best wrestling out there, but a bunch of matches with little to no story behind them doesn't get me all that invested. Oh, Japanese woman vs Japanese woman? Okay then, who are they and why are they fighting? Why should I care?

I get they want to be different from WWE in many ways, but don't try to reinvent the wheel. Fun wrestling should be mixed with backstage vignettes and promo segments. They need to tell us more about these men and women in the ring and why we should be invested in them.


----------



## Ace

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> Lack of depth is a concern. There are only so many permutations of their top guys on a weekly tv show before it feels like more of the same. Hopoefully they'll get some fresh new talent or get over some of the midcarders.


 How did you center align your sig? And can you add any text? This new sig interface is the dirt worst...


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> How did you center align your sig? And can you add any text? This new sig interface is the dirt worst...


I don't know. I had it centered for years so maybe it just carried over.


----------



## Ace

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> I don't know. I had it centered for years so maybe it just carried over.


 Don't try to change your sig or you're fucked, I was updating mine now I can't even add any text or center align... The options I get are left, NONE and right


----------



## Deathiscoming

@Ace is right. At least they should've had Orton signed, as well as a few other names like Mike Bennet, Luke Harper. 

If they had at least 1hour every week devoted to a group of guys who are credible in terms of look/size/talent/charisma, it'd have gone a long way for them in retaining viewers and retaining that fanbase. A group of guys like Omega/PAC/Page/MJF/Moxley/Hager/Spears/Luchasaurus and some new guys like Orton/Harper/Bennet or may be Brian Cage/Eli Drake. 

As it stands, they're not even consistent on using just FOUR guys like PAC/Page/Omega/MJF. And that sucks for me because AEW are already failing me on multiple fronts(young bucks, Jurassic exp, women's wrestling, Darby Allin). 

They need to figure out their core group of guys (other than the Inner Circle) and book them each and every week regardless of the damn women or using Darby Allin or Joey Janella. Until they do that, it's all inconsistency and Cringy shit. And the ratings will always reflect that. Especially with NxT as a solid competition.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> Don't try to change your sig or you're fucked, I was updating mine now I can't even add any text or center align... The options I get are left, NONE and right


That's good to know. If I ever did, I'd just replace the sigs on the site that is rotating them. This new WF kind of sucks.


----------



## Jonhern

AEW .32 Demo (8th) 851k Viewers / NXT .29 Demo (12th) 845k Viewers


----------



## Ace

AEW wins 

Demos getting real close tho. I wonder how long NXT will be able to maintain this bump post SS, those MR fans will get burned out quite fast having to follow 3 shows.


----------



## McNugget

And the 850k split returns. All of you dipshits heralding the end of all things AEW can kindly go pound sand.


----------



## K4L318

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


wazzup my trigga?


----------



## komba

Hell Yeah!!!

Good stuff.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

10-0 in the demo.









AEW rebounds









Demo gap is closing though.


----------



## Bosnian21

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


Aj ne seri bolan


----------



## imthegame19

Deathiscoming said:


> Lmao judging by the trash they put on (more women's wrestling, female King Kong, Nyla Rose, Brandi, Jurassic express, young bucks) they'd be lucky if they get 600-650K. I expect them to soon fall to 300-400K viewers per show as well. I give it 3 months. Especially if NxT raises the bar come Wrestlemania season.





Deathiscoming said:


> Lmao judging by the trash they put on (more women's wrestling, female King Kong, Nyla Rose, Brandi, Jurassic express, young bucks) they'd be lucky if they get 600-650K. I expect them to soon fall to 300-400K viewers per show as well. I give it 3 months. Especially if NxT raises the bar come Wrestlemania season.
> 
> And it's like the WWE didn't even have to do much, except the few weeks leading into Survivor Series. But after SS, the fault is with AEW because NxT is NxT(no invasion). Like Vince would say, "AEW screwed AEW" with their trash roster, women's wrestling, Cringy garbage, and floppy spot monkeys like young bucks. They could've focussed on PAC/Page/Omega but no! AEW screwed AEW.
> 
> And it's my loss too because I don't like NxT(too many skinny midgets, bunch of women wrestlers, and stupid stuff like Matt Riddle "bro" crap). But even I can see NxT would appeal to many more people over AEW.
> 
> I wanted to switch to NxT but two things prevented that:-
> 1)Inconsistency. I like Damien Priest but he barely shows up/wrestles once a month, so I hate that. Or Walter, Pete Dunn etc.
> 2)Too many women's segments/matches and a woman-centric show leads me to believe HHH will have 50-60% of his shows filled with fuckin women and soon Rhea Ripley will be main eventing. So what's the point in devoting yourself to a show because of a cool motherfucker like Damien Priest when HHH idiot would rather stuff his roster/product with wannabe badass bunch of boring ugly cunts like Shayna and Rhea?!
> 
> AEW isn't helping either.


Nope AEW won with 851,000 viewers.


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


As expected AEW went back to winning on a normal night. Sorry your trolling fun comes to a end.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Gap is incredibly close


----------



## TripleG

In an ideal world, AEW and NXT would be racking in millions of viewers each, and people would be ignoring Raw and Smackdown because, you know, they suck. 

But this is the hand we've been dealt.


----------



## Jonhern

Ace said:


> AEW wins
> 
> Demos getting real close tho. I wonder how long NXT will be able to maintain this bump post SS, those MR fans will get burned out quite fast having to follow 3 shows.


Yes, and the question becomes which show does it hurt if they like NXT better than RAW or SDL. That could be another scenario which I brought up before, if they really push NXT it could be at the expense of the two main shows. That's a lot of wrestling to watch in a week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Ace said:


> AEW wins
> 
> Demos getting real close tho. I wonder how long NXT will be able to maintain this bump post SS, those MR fans will get burned out quite fast having to follow 3 shows.


Expect more of NXT bro.

They are seriously pushing NXT as a third brand. Hunter said it in a recent video.

Wrestling fans winning for once


----------



## SPCDRI

That is a big time bounce back from being under 700,000 live viewers to over 850,000 live viewers and winning total viewership again. 

Back to business as usual now that Survivor Series has wrapped up and WWE is in off season cruise control mode until January to build to Royal Rumble.


----------



## imthegame19

I totally expected AEW to win this week. It was obvious from any non troll. Why NXT won the last two weeks. But NXT did do a lot better this week then I thought they would and are taking some of the 18-49 audience. So AEW needs to step up their game a bit.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Jonhern said:


> AEW .32 Demo (8th) 851k Viewers / NXT .29 Demo (12th) 845k Viewers


So they're back to being good. Cool.

So...what do all the motherfuckers that was talking all that doom and gloom shit gotta say now?


----------



## V-Trigger

lmao


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


Dollar Store Nostradamus here.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> I totally expected AEW to win this week. It was obvious from any non troll. Why NXT won the last two weeks. But NXT did do a lot better this week then I thought they would and are taking some of the 18-49 audience. So AEW needs to step up their game a bit.


I think they realise that. 

Expect Moxley to be crowned World champion during RTW.

It needs to be all guns blazing from now on. Less corny shit more hardcore edgy material. NXT is bringing the heat.


----------



## Deathiscoming

imthegame19 said:


> Nope AEW won with 851,000 viewers.


Huzzah for them and you in that case! I am the loser here as I've been unable to enjoy AEW the past few weeks barring Jericho on mic, the Jericho-MJF and Jericho-Sky face-off..and I've failed to get myself to like or get invested in NxT as well.

It's going to be RAW for me as I'm enjoying Rollins, and for the first time I actually found Drew McIntyre very fun(owing to his segment with Randy). Oh, and Buddy Murphy is awesome. Him vs Black is going to be fun.

Oh fuck, I must be the oddest duck here for me to prefer RAW/Rollins/Drew/Buddy Murphy over AEW and Moxley(or NxT). ? ?


----------



## RapShepard

The thread will be fun this week


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

Sooooooo is aew still closing down soon? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jonhern

For everyone focusing on total viewers, look at the shows above AEW, 4 of the 7 had lower total viewers. This is why saying if they do or don't reach a certain amount of viewers its good or bad is misguided. Even NXT did better than 5 of the 11 shows above it. Do you really think AEW or WWE would be upset if the show did under 800k like South Park but was ranked #3?


----------



## imthegame19

.32 in 18-49 is still not a good number for AEW. When you consider they had .39 and .43 before last week show. So they need to do little better. But this was a good rebound from last week fluke holiday week.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW up 28% in total viewers


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Guys

Do you realise that almost 1.7 million people CHOSE to watch wrestling on a Wednesday evening.

Not sports entertainment. Wrestling.

I hope both shows start increasing viewers consistently.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ace said:


> AEW needs to fill out their roster, the lack of depth is going to kill them.
> 
> WWE were wise in overpaying and keeping people locked into 5 year deals if it means AEW is done within 5 years.
> 
> AEW desperately needs 4-5 more frustrated wrestlers in WWE to make the jump and not sign on 5 years for double or triple with the WWE.


wait.... so you think there’ll be no new wrestlers in the next 5 years to sign?


----------



## V-Trigger

imthegame19 said:


> .32 in 18-49 is still not a good number for AEW. When you consider they had .39 and .43 before last week show. So they need to do little better. But this was a good rebound from last week fluke holiday week.


I agree. Riho and Omega are big needle movers with the younger audience. They need to get them on the show asap.


----------



## Ace

LifeInCattleClass said:


> wait.... so you think there’ll be no new wrestlers in the next 5 years to sign?


 Not with names.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

As expected ?‍♂ 

Good show lads. Demo is lower than what it should be though.

needs to reach the 0.40s again

Because the demo is what matters (for those that harp on about nobody talking about it supposedly when AEW was winning  )


----------



## Balor fan

Viewers 18-49 AEW 0.32/NXT 0.29
Female viewers 18-49 AEW 0.22/NXT 0.21
Male viewers 18-49 AEW 0.41/NXT 0.36
Viewers 18-34 AEW 0.19/NXT 0.20
Female viewers 12-34 AEW 0.11/NXT 0.12
Male viewers 12-34 AEW 0.25/NXT 0.20
Viewers 25-54 AEW 0.35/NXT 0.32
Viewers 50+ AEW 0.31/NXT 0.38


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ace said:


> Not with names.


Their ‘game’ is not signing names - its building names

or did you know or care who MJF, Luchasaurus, Allin, Jungle Boy was this time last year?

let the E sign the ‘names’ and let them all sit in a neat row on a bench... who cares ?‍♂


----------



## DOTL

But, But AEW was going to collapse. ☹


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Raw Smackdown said:


> So they're back to being good. Cool.
> 
> So...what do all the motherfuckers that was talking all that doom and gloom shit gotta say now?



Anyone saying they were gonna do 400K or go out of business is just trolling and you make it easy by taking the bait so much lol.


----------



## IamMark

?


----------



## Jazminator

optikk sucks said:


> Guys
> 
> Do you realise that almost 1.7 million people CHOSE to watch wrestling on a Wednesday evening.
> 
> Not sports entertainment. Wrestling.
> 
> I hope both shows start increasing viewers consistently.


That's an awesome way to look at it. For me, personally, AEW and NXT are so good - head and shoulders above Raw and Smackdown. They both deserve eyes on their product.


----------



## MrThortan

Nice to see a ratings bump. I still like NXT more than Raw and Smackdown, but AEW is the only wrestling program since the AE that I watch their PPVs and weekly shows a second time. Just wish they didn't have to compete on the same time slot. Vince has to own it all.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Statlander =RATINGS!


----------



## Ace

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Their ‘game’ is not signing names - its building names
> 
> or did you know or care who MJF, Luchasaurus, Allin, Jungle Boy was this time last year?
> 
> let the E sign the ‘names’ and let them all sit in a neat row on a bench... who cares ?‍♂


 Yeah, that ain't going to work out too well. They need to sign some wrestlers with names who can bring their fanbase with them.

Or do you think they'd be where they are without Jericho, Moxley, Kenny and Cody?


----------



## RiverFenix

Both shows are taking the 25th off, but NXT is not running a show on Jan 1st, while AEW is doing their Homecoming Show from Daily's Place in Jacksonville. Ratings that week will be interesting. I assume NXT will put up a best of show and probably re-air takeover matches or something to try to combat things. That will be a prime opportunity for AEW running unopposed - and being at Daily's Place in Jacksonville you know they'll have something big planned.


----------



## NascarStan

851k seems like around the mean for AEW and top 10 in demi is not a bad mean by any stretch.

Do agree that some signings would be some much needed depth and buzz around the product to get them back towards a million


----------



## rbl85

Ace said:


> Yeah, that ain't going to work out too well. They need to sign some wrestlers with names who can bring their fanbase with them.
> 
> Or do you think they'd be where they are without Jericho, Moxley, Kenny and Cody?


Big names are not available….


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ace said:


> Yeah, that ain't going to work out too well. They need to sign some wrestlers with names who can bring their fanbase with them.
> 
> Or do you think they'd be where they are without Jericho, Moxley, Kenny and Cody?


Dude, the people I named are the Jericho, Kenny, Mox and all the rest of the future

or do you think Y2J will still be on top in 5 yrs time?


----------



## Chan Hung

Well, big relief that AEW not only went back UP with normal ratings but won the week. But, with Royal Rumble soon and Mania, i'm sure NXT will be promoted on the upcoming big PPVs to gain exposure. WWE still can at anytime throw hail mary's at AEW with random main stars and do some damage. Thing is AEW is lacking in star power so they should use whoever they can, meaning instead of rotating kenny omega week 1 and then having him back week 3, just put the more over guys each week.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jazminator said:


> That's an awesome way to look at it. For me, personally, AEW and NXT are so good - head and shoulders above Raw and Smackdown. They both deserve eyes on their product.


Like I don't understand why people are like "aew shutting up shop" and shit.

When actually competition is healthy and if anything they want it to succeed. even if they have VKM's shit on their nose.

If aew and nxt combined beat SD/Raw then vkm needs to rethink his strategy and aew needs to up their game 100x. And then we can stop saying that pro-wrestling is dead.


----------



## rbl85

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> Statlander =RATINGS!


Wait for the quarters


----------



## HankHill_85

But wait, I thought AEW was shutting down because their numbers took a bit of a dip recently? No? Was I wrong to believe the smark trolls...?

These are interesting numbers. I legit thought NXT had it in the bag for another week, pleasantly surprised that AEW took the win in viewership, although just by a hair.

In a perfect world, both shows would be doing over a million each week because they're that good and they deserve such success, but hey, it's 2019 and people watch content in about a billion different ways.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

When AEW ‘lost’ last week, I asked this and was ignored - now that they won, I hope some of the ‘ratings naysayers‘ answer me

‘do you think the execs from “Challenge: War of the World” will say they beat AEW this week? Or lost to them, based off these numbers’ - or ‘Black Ink Crew’ for that matter


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ps> I wonder why AEW and NXT don‘t ‘divide‘ their hours like ‘Black Ink crew’ does. Or Raw does for that matter


----------



## AEW_19

Awfully quiet in here


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

AEW_19 said:


> Awfully quiet in here


Just us fans..... talking in the wind


----------



## Alright_Mate

"The beginning of the end"
"How long does AEW truly have"

I bet the likes of Balor Fan and Whysoserious? are crying their eyes out right now.


----------



## RiverFenix

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Both shows are taking the 25th off, but NXT is not running a show on Jan 1st, while AEW is doing their Homecoming Show from Daily's Place in Jacksonville. Ratings that week will be interesting. I assume NXT will put up a best of show and probably re-air takeover matches or something to try to combat things. That will be a prime opportunity for AEW running unopposed - and being at Daily's Place in Jacksonville you know they'll have something big planned.


Building off this further, January 1st is their Daily's Place show, the 15th is Bash at the Beach in Miami Dynamite and then the next show is the one airing from the Jericho Cruise which should get eyeballs because of the location. A strong January 1st show could really set them up for a run in the New Year. Also factor in they'd be due for a PPV build for early February as well (Later Feb is packed with UFC and big Boxing Match cards on Saturdays) so likely looking at Feb 1st or Feb 8th right now. Feb 1st is Superbowl weekend, I can see pro's and con's for that date. Feb 8th would probably be safer. RR is January 26th, so that weekend would be out for AEW.


----------



## The XL 2

You know the business is fucked when people are openly bragging about 850K, lol. NXT has basically closed the gap in terms of overall viewership and the demo, it's probably only a matter of time. I have no horse in this race either, I'm no fan of NXT and WWE.


----------



## Death Rider

Oh look the doom mongers proven again to be dumb as fuck. Ya hate to see it :hayden3

Edit: I hate the fact we don't have smilies.


----------



## Buhalovski

The XL 2 said:


> You know the business is fucked when people are openly bragging about 850K, lol. NXT has basically closed the gap in terms of overall viewership and the demo, it's probably only a matter of time. I have no horse in this race either, I'm no fan of NXT and WWE.


Well, same with RAW/SD when they are close to 3 millions. 1.7 for a non-Vince product in 2019 is kinda big.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Death Rider said:


> Oh look the doom mongers proven again to be dumb as fuck. Ya hate to see it :hayden3
> 
> Edit: I hate the fact we don't have smilies.


We do


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The XL 2 said:


> You know the business is fucked when people are openly bragging about 850K, lol. NXT has basically closed the gap in terms of overall viewership and the demo, it's probably only a matter of time. I have no horse in this race either, I'm no fan of NXT and WWE.


From both shows combined doing 1.2 million to almost 1.7 million in less than 3 months and the business is fucked? LOL ok


----------



## rbl85

Both show deserve better….if only NXT and AEW didn't aired during th same night….


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> From both shows combined doing 1.2 million to almost 1.7 million in less than 3 months and the business is fucked? LOL ok


Don’t apply logic - it’ll drive you mad


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Don’t apply logic - it’ll drive you mad


i really don't get why these people post on WF still. they don't have anything else to do apart from posting on a forum about a product which they don't care for?

jeez


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> i really don't get why these people post on WF still. they don't have anything else to do apart from posting on a forum about a product which they don't care for?
> 
> jeez


and only hate posting when it fails - takes a special kinda dumbass for that


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> and only hate posting when it fails - takes a special kinda dumbass for that


The ratings also suggest that NXT/AEW viewers do not overlap. Or at least overlap very little.

AEW were doing 900k when NXT was doing ~300k. WWE were probably expecting to steal AEW's viewers. There's definitely a concentration of viewers who are interested in anything BUT wwe. AEW are doing the right thing with the WCW PPV names.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

I like AEWs strategy of going to College campuses - breeding the next generation of fans

yesterdays crowd was quite hot - i think WWEs strat of targeting kids also has validity - except they will ‘fall out of love’ in their teens normally - and nostalgia return years later

i feel aew is targeting the teens, students - which is smart for their demo and making their audience different


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

optikk sucks said:


> From both shows combined doing 1.2 million to almost 1.7 million in less than 3 months and the business is fucked? LOL ok


Some people are just expecting too much.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Ooh that was super close this week

Nice bounce back from AEW and its good to see NXT retain it's viewers. Looks like this week was good for both shows.


----------



## The XL 2

optikk sucks said:


> From both shows combined doing 1.2 million to almost 1.7 million in less than 3 months and the business is fucked? LOL ok


With all the main brand exposure NXT got, of course they were going to go up somewhat. It's honestly embarrassing that they haven't hit 1 mil. And AEW hasn't really grown their audience.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Nice bounce back this week. Hopefully last week’s dip was just an anomaly. I’d be more than happy if AEW stays right around where it is for awhile now, regardless of what NXT does — they don’t have to beat NXT every week. Hold steady and slowly grow the fan base from there. TNT should be happy, Kahn will see a steady return from his investment, and the doom-and-gloomers will have to go shit in their hat.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The XL 2 said:


> With all the main brand exposure NXT got, of course they were going to go up somewhat. It's honestly embarrassing that they haven't hit 1 mil. And AEW hasn't really grown their audience.


It’s embarrassing to not hit a milli in a month and a half? And AEW haven’t grown in a month and a half? Jesus bro. End of the world. 

it took WWE/WCW a long ass time FYI.
Booms don’t happen overnight.
It took TNA 8-9 years to reach 2 million.
But you want NXT and AEW to do that in a few months.

be realistic my guy.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

In fact, about TNA. That 2 million viewership was a flash in the pan.
Like reggie said, consistency is KEY.


----------



## RiverFenix

Vince doesn't want to grow NXT as much as hurt AEW. If he wanted to grow NXT he'd take them out of Full Sail - wrestling in front of 400 fans makes it look small time.


----------



## Knoxflag

Can someone tell me when does the quarter breakdown comes out from Meltzer? I'm kinda new here and i have no idea when they come out


----------



## Knoxflag

comes out*


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Vince doesn't want to grow NXT as much as hurt AEW. If he wanted to grow NXT he'd take them out of Full Sail - wrestling in front of 400 fans makes it look small time.


This rating suggests no viewer overlap. Vince can try all he wants, but AEW and WWE share a minimal number of viewers. They may give up on the idea if AEW can stay consistent regardless of the strong NXT propaganda.
The thing is, I don’t want WWE to stop. Wednesday can become the main night for pro wrestling in 5 years time.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Vince doesn't want to grow NXT as much as hurt AEW. If he wanted to grow NXT he'd take them out of Full Sail - wrestling in front of 400 fans makes it look small time.


Report just came out that said NXT is locked into Full Sail until March 2020, if after that they don't move to arenas then I think you might have a point.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Nice bounce back for AEW I expected them to get about 800K but figured NXT would probably stay ahead of them in total viewers by 50-75K. Demo is tightening but AEW just needs to get back to a .4 and they will be fine.

Show was better last night as a well rounded show. Last week had a lot of hype and while the 2nd hour was real good the first hour was a little inconsistent.


----------



## The XL 2

optikk sucks said:


> It’s embarrassing to not hit a milli in a month and a half? And AEW haven’t grown in a month and a half? Jesus bro. End of the world.
> 
> it took WWE/WCW a long ass time FYI.
> Booms don’t happen overnight.
> It took TNA 8-9 years to reach 2 million.
> But you want NXT and AEW to do that in a few months.
> 
> be realistic my guy.


NXT is part of the WWE, so they have brand power and AEW had more buzz and exposure than any start up company in history times 100, comparing them to TNA doesn't hold water.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

optikk sucks said:


> This rating suggests no viewer overlap. Vince can try all he wants, but AEW and WWE share a minimal number of viewers. They may give up on the idea if AEW can stay consistent regardless of the strong NXT propaganda.
> The thing is, I don’t want WWE to stop. Wednesday can become the main night for pro wrestling in 5 years time.


I agree.

I watched NXT the first week it debuted on USA just to see Dream because I have liked him. I thought the show was OK but passed on it on week 2 because frankly I kind of forgot it was on when it came time to watch it. Week 3 I decided I would watch AEW's debut and watch NXT on the Network (which I let my subscription lapse after Hell In a Cell) I haven't watched NXT since other than a few clips on youtube since. While NXT to me is far better than Raw and SD my problem is I am so used to watching those 2 shows (especially Raw) I still have them on in the background and it is hard to commit to 9 hours of wrestling a week. If NXT was on Tuesday or Thursday I would probably watch it but 4 hours in one night is a lot to watch.


----------



## Psychosocial

Barely 2M people watch sports entertainment products on Mondays and Fridays that have built-up audiences of over two decades, while two pro wrestling products are not far off those numbers combined most weeks on Wednesday nights even with a short TV life to date.

Pro wrestling will always outdraw sports entertainment, folks.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The XL 2 said:


> NXT is part of the WWE, so they have brand power and AEW had more buzz and exposure than any start up company in history times 100, comparing them to TNA doesn't hold water.


You can’t talk about exposure when more half of the WWE fanbase don’t know what AEW is. Exposure comes with time.

the thing is you’re in the Internet bubble and you need to be able to view the product outside of that bubble. Ask the average WWE viewer what AEW is and I bet they couldn’t tell you. Ask the average lost viewer after the war what AEW is and I bet they couldn’t tell you.

be patient.

RAW and SD is 5 hours combined. It will take a lot to persuade someone to watch an extra 2 hours. They seem to be managing it.

i feel like this “expecting an instant payoff” thing is really played out.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW


----------



## Stevieg786

Great numbers, especially AEW.


----------



## imthegame19

While .32 in 18-49 seems a bit low. The 18-49 audience was down across the board last night. Only three shows did above .34. So AEW still finished in their usual spot this week. Besides last week fluke Black Wednesday number. AEW has been ranked 4th through 8th in 18-49 demo every week since week 2.

8th-.46
5th-.44
4th-.45
6th-.33
8th-.35
5th-.43
8th-.39
15th-.26
8th-.32

While viewership wise they have done 820,000 to 1 million viewers on TNT every week besides Game 7 of World Series and Black Wednesday last week. I think norm numbers are 850-950 in viewers. But I think they can get back to million at some point.


----------



## captainzombie

rbl85 said:


> Both show deserve better….if only NXT and AEW didn't aired during th same night….


That is one of the big problems, imagine if they were on separate nights. I think that NXT would go up a bit, but AEW for sure would be much higher since they don't have to share viewership with NXT and those NXT hardcore fans might be inclined to watch Dynamite on a different night.

It sucks because I want both shows to succeed, the only thing that pisses me off is Vince trying to water down the main roster even further trying to dump them on NXT in hopes that they can destroy AEW. It is sad, WWE has become a monopoly pretty much and they are trying to destroy any and all competition like they have pretty much sucked all the indies dry the last few years.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

Back above 800k with another win, as expected. NXT losing once the main roster stars disappeared was painfully obvious. Good stuff.


----------



## Jonhern

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Some people are just expecting too much.


Most of them are stuck in the 90s and compare the numbers to that. But we have no real idea how many people are truly watching each week because a lot of people don't watch cable like they used to. The actual amount of wrestling fans out there is a lot higher than these numbers suggest. Especially with millennials who are more likely not to have traditional cable, people watching Ott or streaming on the app aren't counted in these numbers.


----------



## Ace

So is NXT developmental or a third brand?

When AEW wins they beat a developmental brand and when they lose 'lol AEW lost to WWE's developmental brand'.


----------



## Garty

DOTL said:


> But, But AEW was going to collapse. ☹


That's my line!


----------



## imthegame19

captainzombie said:


> That is one of the big problems, imagine if they were on separate nights. I think that NXT would go up a bit, but AEW for sure would be much higher since they don't have to share viewership with NXT and those NXT hardcore fans might be inclined to watch Dynamite on a different night.
> 
> It sucks because I want both shows to succeed, the only thing that pisses me off is Vince trying to water down the main roster even further trying to dump them on NXT in hopes that they can destroy AEW. It is sad, WWE has become a monopoly pretty much and they are trying to destroy any and all competition like they have pretty much sucked all the indies dry the last few years.



Yeah if NXT was on Tuesday or Thursday and AEW was on Wednesday. I think both shows would be doing over million viewers per week. If Vince wasn't so hell bent on not letting AEW grow. By NXT head to head, not releasing talent that want out or he's not using and signing/resigning talent to block them from AEW. 


So AEW would have deeper roster of known talent and no weekly competiton. Well AEW would be growing closer to Smackdown and Raw numbers a lot faster. I guess this is why Vince McMahon the business man knows what he's doing. That said these tricks are only gonna work for so long. AEW will add develop more talent and grow. It's just a shame as fans we need to pick a show. Because Vince doesnt want competition and them cutting into his next big tv deal etc.


----------



## imthegame19

Ace said:


> So is NXT developmental or a third brand?
> 
> When AEW wins they beat a developmental brand and when they lose 'lol AEW lost to WWE's developmental brand'.


Last I looked WWE told us at Survivor Series that NXT was the superior brand. At least talent is equal to Raw/Smackdown. Developmental guys aren't beating Raw/Smackdown guys. Heck Daniel Bryan is feuding for Universal Title and NXT champ Adam Cole beat him a few weeks ago. So NXT is third brand only cuz they are newer show with lesser known wrestlers. But WWE booking says they are on same level. Which never was the case when ECW was the third brand.


----------



## Jonhern

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Nice bounce back for AEW I expected them to get about 800K but figured NXT would probably stay ahead of them in total viewers by 50-75K. Demo is tightening but AEW just needs to get back to a .4 and they will be fine.
> 
> Show was better last night as a well rounded show. Last week had a lot of hype and while the 2nd hour was real good the first hour was a little inconsistent.


If they stay around .3 they will be doing great. They will be tnt's second highest rated show and unlike the others will be on 52 weeks a year not just 10-15. A .4-.5 average will be amazing. In the .5 range they would be top 25 or top 50 for the week on cable all year long. Btw after checking aew has been in the top 25 for the week twice so far, and would've had a third if it was not for the simulcast on trutv one week.

Also since they have beat nxt every single week Tony and cody are going to have thier eyes set on a bigger deal than what nxt got from USA if they keep it up. The NXT deal will essentially be the baseline for negotiation.


----------



## Best Bout Machine

Ace said:


> So is NXT developmental or a third brand?
> 
> When AEW wins they beat a developmental brand and when they lose 'lol AEW lost to WWE's developmental brand'.


You're not allowed to say anything negative about WWE to their fanboys. Don't forget that!


----------



## Chan Hung

Best Bout Machine said:


> Back above 800k with another win, as expected. NXT losing once the main roster stars disappeared was painfully obvious. Good stuff.


Well between now Royal Rumble and WrestleMania expect more main roster Stars


----------



## Taroostyles

Would be interesting to see AEW get that overrun, it really gives you that anything can happen feel. If anything that's what Dynamite has been missing the last few weeks. The shows have all been good or great but even with The Inner Circle there hasn't been a lot of story progress. It seems like Mox will take the strap from Jericho and then the proper Elite vs IC feud will begin cause as of now theres not enough heat for the big Wargames blowoff. 

To me, doing 3-4 months between PPVs is just too long these days. They need to go to an every other month format.


----------



## captainzombie

Taroostyles said:


> Would be interesting to see AEW get that overrun, it really gives you that anything can happen feel. If anything that's what Dynamite has been missing the last few weeks. The shows have all been good or great but even with The Inner Circle there hasn't been a lot of story progress. It seems like Mox will take the strap from Jericho and then the proper Elite vs IC feud will begin cause as of now theres not enough heat for the big Wargames blowoff.
> 
> To me, doing 3-4 months between PPVs is just too long these days. They need to go to an every other month format.


I hope they do get an overrun, I hate feeling like every week some how they are going to screw something up and just run out of time. It gives you this weird uneasy feeling thinking they are running up against that 9:00/10:00 PM hour.


----------



## ClintDagger

LMAO. Vince & Hunter can’t be happy today. I’ll be curious to see what Meltzer says. He said anything under 875k would be disappointing and he also said even more important than that AEW needs to be doing .40 or above in the demo with .38 being a rock bottom. They didn’t even get close to that so perhaps that’s a concern. I think 850k is fine but really wanted them to stay near a million so the bar has been really lowered. I do think the demo number is a concern given where they were.


----------



## K4L318

me being right


K4L318 said:


> bruh ya gotta be like pushing late 40s or something.
> 
> Not one bit of what you said made sense.
> 
> And this aint no flame. But reading this thread you'd think nobody ever went out during the holidays in their lives. I dvr'd AEW Dynamite cuz I had to take a flight to NY to visit my girl's parents.


----------



## K4L318

yo this also be me being right


K4L318 said:


> cuz they aint capitalizing wit the division. All they do is show Brandi in stories of power.


----------



## RBrooks

So, back to the usual number, AND beating NXT again (although barely). 

But, but wait a minute.... I thought AEW was dying?


----------



## K4L318

RBrooks said:


> So, back to the usual number, AND beating NXT again (although barely).
> 
> But, but wait a minute.... I thought AEW was dying?
> 
> View attachment 81036


Im waitin on them quarter figures. I just know Shida and Kris flipped viewership.


----------



## imthegame19

ClintDagger said:


> LMAO. Vince & Hunter can’t be happy today. I’ll be curious to see what Meltzer says. He said anything under 875k would be disappointing and he also said even more important than that AEW needs to be doing .40 or above in the demo with .38 being a rock bottom. They didn’t even get close to that so perhaps that’s a concern. I think 850k is fine but really wanted them to stay near a million so the bar has been really lowered. I do think the demo number is a concern given where they were.


18-49 number was lower this week in General for all shows . They were still top 4-8 ranking range they've been even with .43 demos. This week only three shows did above .34. So I expect them to go up in the demo like the other shows will next week.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> Im waitin on them quarter figures. I just know Shida and Kris flipped viewership.


And sadly that was one of the best match of the night.

I think the segment after the match was the real drop.


----------



## ClintDagger

imthegame19 said:


> 18-49 number was lower this week in General for all shows . They were still top 4-8 ranking range they've been even with .43 demos. This week only three shows did above .34. So I expect them to go up in the demo like the other shows will next week.


Nah, that’s misleading because there was no NBA to top the charts in the demo. And when you think about the lack of nba competition it really makes AEW and NXT’s numbers a little bit more disappointing. That’s 2 million viewers and .9 in the demo up for grabs. If you look at the last 3 non holiday weeks there’s a clear downward trend for AEW. It’s like 960k / .43, 890k / .39, and now 850k / .32;

Looking at that trend I can actually see why Meltzer said 875k / .40 was what should be hoped for. They’ve slipped a lot since 11/13. I think NXT will now slowly cool off but it’s hard to get any momentum this time of year. Hopefully AEW can tread water here in December and through the New Year’s Day show and then start building momentum in January and build their numbers back up.


----------



## V-Trigger

*Breakdown of AEW vs NXT Ratings & What Lost/Gained Viewers: 

AEW*


> Median Age: 45.3yo
> Started the night with 893k viewers (451k in 18-49)
> Doubled NXT In Teenagers & Did 6x In Male Teens (34k to 6k)
> Q2 : Rey Fenix vs Trent lost 76k viewers
> Q3 : Cody Promo gained 53k viewers
> Q4 : Nyla Rose vs Leva Bates lost 76k viewers
> Q5 : Jericho Promo & Statlander vs Shida Beginning gained 115k viewers
> Q6 : Statlander vs Shida Ending & Brandi/Kong segment lost 46k viewers
> Q7 : Pentagon vs Daniels lost 38k viewers
> Q8 : Joey Janela vs Jon Moxley gained 11k viewers


*NXT*


> Median Age: 51.4yo
> Started the night with 944k Viewers (360k in 18-49)
> Won Males 18-34(85k vs 74k) & 50+ (544k vs 361k)
> Q2 : End of Daine vs Dunne lost 52k viewers
> Q3 : Shayna vs Xia lost 41k viewers
> Q4 : Forgotten Sons vs. Leon Ruff & Adrian Alanis lost 87k viewers
> Q5 : Dakota Kai, Rhea Ripley and Mia Yim angle gained 110,000 viewers
> Q6 : Matt Riddle vs Kassius Ohno lost 66k viewers
> Q7 : Kushida vs. Cameron Grimes gained 22k viewers
> Q8 : Cole, Strong & O’Reilly vs Keith Lee, Dijakovic & Ciampa lost 88k viewers


----------



## V-Trigger

Cont...

*Overall*


> After AEW ended NXT's overun gained 212k viewers
> Teenage girls peaked for Dunne vs. Dain
> Male teens peaked with the Jericho interview
> Males 18-34 peaked with the Jericho interview. NXT’s peak was Ohno vs. Riddle
> Males 35-49 peaked with the Jericho interview. NXT’s peak was with Kai, Yim and Ripley angle
> Over 50 peaked with Dain vs. Dunne with the AEW highlight being Statlander vs. Shida and the Brandi Rhodes/Kong segment


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> The ratings also suggest that NXT/AEW viewers do not overlap. Or at least overlap very little.
> 
> AEW were doing 900k when NXT was doing ~300k. WWE were probably expecting to steal AEW's viewers. There's definitely a concentration of viewers who are interested in anything BUT wwe. AEW are doing the right thing with the WCW PPV names.


When did NXT do 300k viewes? And besides last week it was always doing around 1.5 or more, so I dont know when both shows did 1.2 in total?


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

After AEW ended NXT's overun gained 212k viewers. So it seems like 1/4 of the AEW audience tuned in. TNT really needs to nip that in the bud. It is very telling that the ex WWE guys, Cody,Jericho, and Mox, all had their segments gain viewers. Kudos to Statlander vs. Shida being the peak for the 50+ demo.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

One thing is certain

when AEW catches lighting in a bottle - like for example with Daniel Bryan and the ‘yes movement’ from 2011

they are going to run with it hard - not try to bury it for 9 months, and then bury again right after WM

and when that happens, we’ll truly see shit hit the fan

once they get that 1 super hot angle


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Glad AEW won. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to watch live this week because of my constantly changing work schedule. However I won't miss another live viewing until Feb.


----------



## incomplete moron

K4L318 said:


> if they do 800K will you delete your account and never come back?


no,why would I do that lol wtf 
and I just read that they did only 851,000, which isn't 800k like u said so.. take that L


----------



## incomplete moron

A PG Attitude said:


> Your life must be very boring


as is everyone's elses


----------



## incomplete moron

K4L318 said:


> wazzup my trigga?


nuthin, chillin,killin,you dawg?


----------



## incomplete moron

Bosnian21 said:


> Aj ne seri bolan


đes ba ša ima  oću


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> As expected AEW went back to winning on a normal night. Sorry your trolling fun comes to a end.


no it doesn't lol, it's only just beginning ____
lol,''winning'', they baarely ''win'' against c brand that nobody watches and you marks act like they're some competition to wwe or something like that lol pathetic
until they beat raw/smackdown,they're just glorified indy company,FACT.


----------



## incomplete moron

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> Dollar Store Nostradamus here.


----------



## The Wood

LifeInCattleClass said:


> One thing is certain
> 
> when AEW catches lighting in a bottle - like for example with Daniel Bryan and the ‘yes movement’ from 2011
> 
> they are going to run with it hard - not try to bury it for 9 months, and then bury again right after WM
> 
> and when that happens, we’ll truly see shit hit the fan
> 
> once they get that 1 super hot angle


That’s not certain at all. In fact, it’s arguable they’ve had their biggest hit already (Cody/MJF). And they undercut shit all the time and bury it (Young Bucks talking about the gimmicked chair).

This week should really be considered a win for NXT. Those numbers are too close to be significant. The Nielsen numbers are too variable. A 0.7% difference is just too close. I think Nielsen itself covers its ass by saying 10% either way. It’s a wash, _then_ you have to figure that a lot of AEW viewers watch NXT on the Network. That’s why you don’t see that 18-35 or the overlap.

Building to Jericho and Jungle Boy is smart. Especially if Marko Stunt is murdered and never seen again. But NXT have Scarlett Bordeaux and their builds as hidden weapons.


----------



## incomplete moron

The XL 2 said:


> You know the business is fucked when people are openly bragging about 850K, lol. NXT has basically closed the gap in terms of overall viewership and the demo, it's probably only a matter of time. I have no horse in this race either, I'm no fan of NXT and WWE.


 exaactly lol, one of the only intelligent,objective posts here



optikk sucks said:


> From both shows combined doing 1.2 million to almost 1.7 million in less than 3 months and the business is fucked? LOL ok


ofc it is lol wtf,that's NOTHING, especially compared to nfl and nba games for example,that get 10 to even 30 mil when there's playoffs etc. if that doesn't tell you that wrestling business (both aew and wwe ofc) is CLEARLY fucked and beyond irrelevant and niche than you're clearly trollin or are insane


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> When did NXT do 300k viewes? And besides last week it was always doing around 1.5 or more, so I dont know when both shows did 1.2 in total?


i think I got confused with a replay. I remember seeing that number thrown around. My bad.
In its very early days on USA


incomplete moron said:


> exaactly lol, one of the only intelligent,objective posts here
> 
> 
> ofc it is lol wtf,that's NOTHING, especially compared to nfl and nba games for example,that get 10 to even 30 mil when there's playoffs etc. if that doesn't tell you that wrestling business (both aew and wwe ofc) is CLEARLY fucked and beyond irrelevant and niche than you're clearly trollin or are insane


i know it’s niche, but since when did being niche mean that the business is fucked?
WWE are out here still making whatever hundreds of millions profit

idk but some of you goofies seem to want wrestling to be on Disney level. Never gonna happen bud. Lower your expectations.


----------



## bdon

incomplete moron said:


> no it doesn't lol, it's only just beginning ____
> lol,''winning'', they baarely ''win'' against c brand that nobody watches and you marks act like they're some competition to wwe or something like that lol pathetic
> until they beat raw/smackdown,they're just glorified indy company,FACT.


That very same “C brand” buried the two main rosters, so what are they exactly?


----------



## incomplete moron

optikk sucks said:


> i think I got confused with a replay. I remember seeing that number thrown around. My bad.
> In its very early days on USA
> 
> i know it’s niche, but since when did being niche mean that the business is fucked?
> WWE are out here still making whatever hundreds of millions profit
> 
> idk but some of you goofies seem to want wrestling to be on Disney level. Never gonna happen bud. Lower your expectations.


since like..forever lol. niche=fucked=irrelevant, those are all synonims.
one could still make profit and run an irrelevant company lol,so much for that ''argument''.

nope, I don't want nor expect anything, I'm merely stating facts. I know it's not gonna happen,but then why are y'all marks acting like it's already happening or it's bound to happen soon etc lol? with your constant bragging about pathetic ratings etc I mean



bdon said:


> That very same “C brand” buried the two main rosters, so what are they exactly?


 it didn't REALLY bury them, it was artificial, forced ''burying'' for one or two weeks only cuz they needed them to look strong to beat aew,and when that was gone we're back to business as usual, with nxt geeks not appearing on main brands anymore and being completely irrelevant like always


----------



## fabi1982

optikk sucks said:


> i think I got confused with a replay. I remember seeing that number thrown around. My bad.
> In its very early days on USA


So basically besides the MLB game 7 it was always around 1.8m (with the first three weeks of competition being even higher), so it stays the same. Same with the 18-49 demo, it is steadily going down for both combined to be honest, with NXT not being able to catch the fallen fruits from AEWs sinking demo.

Oh and with everyone treating Melzer like a god, he said they should be worried when they dont bounce back in the demo to at least 0.4 (0.45 would be better), so theres that.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

incomplete moron said:


> since like..forever lol. niche=fucked=irrelevant, those are all synonims.
> one could still make profit and run an irrelevant company lol,so much for that ''argument''.
> 
> nope, I don't want nor expect anything, I'm merely stating facts. I know it's not gonna happen,but then why are y'all marks acting like it's already happening or it's bound to happen soon etc lol? with your constant bragging about pathetic ratings etc I mean
> 
> it didn't REALLY bury them, it was artificial, forced ''burying'' for one or two weeks only cuz they needed them to look strong to beat aew,and when that was gone we're back to business as usual, with nxt geeks not appearing on main brands anymore and being completely irrelevant like always


Niche means something that’s not mainstream.

and I can name a ton of niche industries that are successful and make bank. Shit any normal person wouldn’t think of.

but don’t allow your misunderstanding of the word “niche” to cloud your own judgement. go do your own research.


----------



## incomplete moron

optikk sucks said:


> Niche means something that’s not mainstream.
> 
> and I can name a ton of niche industries that are successful and make bank. Shit any normal person wouldn’t think of.
> 
> but don’t allow your misunderstanding of the word “niche” to cloud your own judgement. go do your own research.


I know what niche means
when did I say that something that is niche can't be successfull? I didn't mention success, work on your reading comprehension PAL


----------



## Natecore

Hell Yeah! We kicked their fucking asses again!

Fuck you, Vince!
Fuck you, NXT!
Fuck you, Hunter!


----------



## Deathiscoming

optikk sucks said:


> Niche means something that’s not mainstream.
> 
> and I can name a ton of niche industries that are successful and make bank. Shit any normal person wouldn’t think of.
> 
> but don’t allow your misunderstanding of the word “niche” to cloud your own judgement. go do your own research.


Your understanding of "niche" is correct. A company could be a niche product, cater to a particular niche and generate profits/income and sustain itself. But at what point do its customers start dwindling or the profits cease to be as significant or good enough for that company to sustain itself, let alone grow/thrive?

So in this case there's the WWE with its loyal hardcore fanbase, its "niche" resulting into their TV deals, the Saudi shows... And we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars/hundreds of millions of yearly profit here. In this instance, the WWE can afford to put out a shit product and displease its consumers.. For a while. Because they have 100s of millions of dollars and 2-3M avg viewers constituting their "niche" fanbase. Until they start dwindling/quit in significant numbers, of course. 

But can AEW? Their product is even more of a "niche" in a wrestling market that includes the Juggernaut the WWE, NJPW, Impact. By putting out a product dominated by Japanese/women wrestlers, Cringy/kiddy crap(orange Cassidy, Marko stunt), Darby Allin/Joey Janella/Moxley with their hardcore wrestling, and flippy shit like Young Bucks/Private Party/Luchas...they've already ensured that (oh and I fucking forgot Nyla Rose,Brandi, Kong chick) they only attract and maintain a certain group of fans, a "niche" product catering to 500-800K fans. Because 1.5 or so Million viewers checked out Dynamite debut on October 2 but only half the fans watch now isn't it?

The question to then ask is, at what point does this "niche" dwindle and become irrelevant? That's what @incomplete moron meant when he said niche= fucked = irrelevant. 

And AEW's product IMO would appeal to far fewer new fans/casuals than the WWE's (as shitty as the WWE have been since the PG John Cena fruity pebbles era). 

I don't see AEW ever grow with the people they're pushing and the direction they're going. As a matter of fact, unlike the WWE, they don't have 2-3M avg viewers across 3 shows, the WWE network, TV deals, and Saudi shows.


----------



## Deathiscoming

incomplete moron said:


> as is everyone's elses


 This was a superb comeback LOL.

Marks act like if they all like something and become somewhat of a collective, then anyone who disagrees or has a contrary opinion is automatically the loser hahhaha. Talk about having or not having a "life". Most people with a life wouldn't spend an hour(or two) on a wrestling forum. Lmao.


----------



## Ham and Egger

It really sucks that AEW has to share viewership with NXT. Their numbers would be way more impressive if they weren't splitting viewers. But that also lends to the idea that the audience is capped and not growing (at in the sense of people that watch wrestling on TV).


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Niche means something that’s not mainstream.
> 
> and I can name a ton of niche industries that are successful and make bank. Shit any normal person wouldn’t think of.
> 
> but don’t allow your misunderstanding of the word “niche” to cloud your own judgement. go do your own research.


With almost everything in the world being ‘on-demand’ - everything has turned niche. Except maybe blockbuster Superhero movies

all our hobbies are niche now


----------



## kingfrass44

LifeInCattleClass said:


> With almost everything in the world being ‘on-demand’ - everything has turned niche. Except maybe blockbuster Superhero movies
> 
> all our hobbies are niche now


You're right If you live in the world of hardcode
It's obvious that you live the world alone.
You live in your little world If you think everything has turned niche Except maybe blockbuster Superhero movies
Hardcode They live in the world on their own


----------



## Jonhern

Taroostyles said:


> Would be interesting to see AEW get that overrun, it really gives you that anything can happen feel. If anything that's what Dynamite has been missing the last few weeks. The shows have all been good or great but even with The Inner Circle there hasn't been a lot of story progress. It seems like Mox will take the strap from Jericho and then the proper Elite vs IC feud will begin cause as of now theres not enough heat for the big Wargames blowoff.
> 
> To me, doing 3-4 months between PPVs is just too long these days. They need to go to an every other month format.


I think it is too long too but I don't think they need to do every month PPV, they can do specials on TNT instead like WCW did with Clash of Champions and WWF did with Saturday Nights Main Event. Blow off the smaller feuds there and save the big money feuds for PPV.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> LMAO. Vince & Hunter can’t be happy today. I’ll be curious to see what Meltzer says. He said anything under 875k would be disappointing and he also said even more important than that AEW needs to be doing .40 or above in the demo with .38 being a rock bottom. They didn’t even get close to that so perhaps that’s a concern. I think 850k is fine but really wanted them to stay near a million so the bar has been really lowered. I do think the demo number is a concern given where they were.


Remember he is not an expert, it's pretty clear if he said something like that. IDK where he is getting those numbers from because I doubt TNT sees .38 as rock bottom. Their highest-rated scripted show averaged .33 demo for their last season. They only hit .4-.41 for the premiere and the last two episodes. All the other episodes were .33 and under. And if they are only paying 500k to AEW per episode its way under what they were paying for that show, Animal Kingdom, or any of their other shows that did even lower numbers.


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW cannot compete with WWE because of the WWE Network. 2M subscribers at $10 is $20M a month in near pure revenue. $240M a year. 

Subscription services is where the money is now. AEW needs to jump on that sooner than later. WWE gives away all it's PPV's as part of the $10 monthly subscription. There is a reason most gyms only charge that as well - it's likely the price point discovered where people will continue to pay it even without using it - it's the subscription price sweet spot. 

$200 a year for four AEW PPV's or $120 a year for 20 or so WWE PPV's?

Their current deal with iN DEMAND should be their last. They should spend the next two years building their own "online network" where they don't lose a big percentage to a middle man and can control the price.


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> no it doesn't lol, it's only just beginning ____
> lol,''winning'', they baarely ''win'' against c brand that nobody watches and you marks act like they're some competition to wwe or something like that lol pathetic
> until they beat raw/smackdown,they're just glorified indy company,FACT.


You lost all credibility yesterday when you said AEW would do 400,000 viewers. Now you are just a joke. Who I laugh at and ignore.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Deathiscoming said:


> Your understanding of "niche" is correct. A company could be a niche product, cater to a particular niche and generate profits/income and sustain itself. But at what point do its customers start dwindling or the profits cease to be as significant or good enough for that company to sustain itself, let alone grow/thrive?
> 
> So in this case there's the WWE with its loyal hardcore fanbase, its "niche" resulting into their TV deals, the Saudi shows... And we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars/hundreds of millions of yearly profit here. In this instance, the WWE can afford to put out a shit product and displease its consumers.. For a while. Because they have 100s of millions of dollars and 2-3M avg viewers constituting their "niche" fanbase. Until they start dwindling/quit in significant numbers, of course.
> 
> But can AEW? Their product is even more of a "niche" in a wrestling market that includes the Juggernaut the WWE, NJPW, Impact. By putting out a product dominated by Japanese/women wrestlers, Cringy/kiddy crap(orange Cassidy, Marko stunt), Darby Allin/Joey Janella/Moxley with their hardcore wrestling, and flippy shit like Young Bucks/Private Party/Luchas...they've already ensured that (oh and I fucking forgot Nyla Rose,Brandi, Kong chick) they only attract and maintain a certain group of fans, a "niche" product catering to 500-800K fans. Because 1.5 or so Million viewers checked out Dynamite debut on October 2 but only half the fans watch now isn't it?
> 
> The question to then ask is, at what point does this "niche" dwindle and become irrelevant? That's what @incomplete moron meant when he said niche= fucked = irrelevant.
> 
> And AEW's product IMO would appeal to far fewer new fans/casuals than the WWE's (as shitty as the WWE have been since the PG John Cena fruity pebbles era).
> 
> I don't see AEW ever grow with the people they're pushing and the direction they're going. As a matter of fact, unlike the WWE, they don't have 2-3M avg viewers across 3 shows, the WWE network, TV deals, and Saudi shows.


he said the BUSINESS is fucked. the industry as a whole.

you obviously agree with me.

to talk about growth and the industry being fucked months into AEW's existence, y'all talking about being able to walk before being able to crawl.

too much impatience.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW cannot compete with WWE because of the WWE Network. 2M subscribers at $10 is $20M a month in near pure revenue. $240M a year.
> 
> Subscription services is where the money is now. AEW needs to jump on that sooner than later. WWE gives away all it's PPV's as part of the $10 monthly subscription. There is a reason most gyms only charge that as well - it's likely the price point discovered where people will continue to pay it even without using it - it's the subscription price sweet spot.
> 
> $200 a year for four AEW PPV's or $120 a year for 20 or so WWE PPV's?
> 
> Their current deal with iN DEMAND should be their last. They should spend the next two years building their own "online network" where they don't lose a big percentage to a middle man and can control the price.


The costs to start up their own streaming service would be a lot, and revenue is not profit which is what matters to a company. the wwe network hasn't really been the boon over PPV profit that wwe predicted it would be when it launched, they priced it too low because they thought they would have more subs, and all reports point to them raising the price next year. They only approach 2 million worldwide the month Wrestlemania is on, and usually hover around 1.5 million and the numbers are going down, they predicted they would be over 3 million by now. If you look back to pre network days, if you adjust for inflation the network has increased PPV revenue a lot but actual profit has been about the same until you look at 2018 but its due to the Saudi deals. AEW won't be able to create something even in a couple of years that would replace PPV profit, they just don't have the content that one would need to launch a standalone service that would attract a large enough audience, it would cost a lot to run it, the big streaming companies can charge what they do because they are mainstream and can attract a wide audience to increase scale. AEW's best bet is to do something with BRLive or HBO MAX.


----------



## llj

Both NXT and AEW can't be too pleased. NXT probably should have sustained their advantage better and AEW is clearly hitting some mudsand right now. Honestly these numbers lately are so "blah" I really don't have much else to say anymore about both of them.


----------



## rbl85

What do you guys expected ?

If wrestling was popular then RAW or Smackdown would do more than 3.5M.

RAW and SD are still doing more than 2M because they are 2 really old show with really old people watching it. 

No other wrestling show will ever do 1.5m or 2m viewers every week.


----------



## incomplete moron

Deathiscoming said:


> Your understanding of "niche" is correct. A company could be a niche product, cater to a particular niche and generate profits/income and sustain itself. But at what point do its customers start dwindling or the profits cease to be as significant or good enough for that company to sustain itself, let alone grow/thrive?
> 
> So in this case there's the WWE with its loyal hardcore fanbase, its "niche" resulting into their TV deals, the Saudi shows... And we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars/hundreds of millions of yearly profit here. In this instance, the WWE can afford to put out a shit product and displease its consumers.. For a while. Because they have 100s of millions of dollars and 2-3M avg viewers constituting their "niche" fanbase. Until they start dwindling/quit in significant numbers, of course.
> 
> But can AEW? Their product is even more of a "niche" in a wrestling market that includes the Juggernaut the WWE, NJPW, Impact. By putting out a product dominated by Japanese/women wrestlers, Cringy/kiddy crap(orange Cassidy, Marko stunt), Darby Allin/Joey Janella/Moxley with their hardcore wrestling, and flippy shit like Young Bucks/Private Party/Luchas...they've already ensured that (oh and I fucking forgot Nyla Rose,Brandi, Kong chick) they only attract and maintain a certain group of fans, a "niche" product catering to 500-800K fans. Because 1.5 or so Million viewers checked out Dynamite debut on October 2 but only half the fans watch now isn't it?
> 
> The question to then ask is, at what point does this "niche" dwindle and become irrelevant? That's what @incomplete moron meant when he said niche= fucked = irrelevant.
> 
> And AEW's product IMO would appeal to far fewer new fans/casuals than the WWE's (as shitty as the WWE have been since the PG John Cena fruity pebbles era).
> 
> I don't see AEW ever grow with the people they're pushing and the direction they're going. As a matter of fact, unlike the WWE, they don't have 2-3M avg viewers across 3 shows, the WWE network, TV deals, and Saudi shows.


agreed with everything except marko stunt being ''kiddy cringy crap'', IMO he oozes physical charisma (and otherwise) and demands respect, he could be next scsa if pushed correctly, not that untalented jabroni mox


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> You lost all credibility yesterday when you said AEW would do 400,000 viewers. Now you are just a joke. Who I laugh at and ignore.


wtf are you talkin about, when did I say they would do 400,000 viewers lol? obvious troll is obvious


----------



## Deathiscoming

incomplete moron said:


> agreed with everything except marko stunt being ''kiddy cringy crap'', IMO he oozes physical charisma (and otherwise) and demands respect, he could be next scsa if pushed correctly, not that untalented jabroni mox


May be for you if that's your cuppa. I can't even take Adam Cole seriously. Jungle Boy has bigger/more defined biceps and shoulders(testosterone) and he's freaking jungle boy and isn't considered someone with SIZE. That itself disqualifies Cole as anything. IDK about stunt but Jungle boy has potential, not Hogan or Austin level potential, but potential. 

Mox is overrated AF and can't even wrestle. His knee strikes are so OFF from the opponent's chest that it makes it shocking if people take this guy seriously. I always found him to be the "bad" member of the Shield. The weak link.


----------



## bdon

. 


imthegame19 said:


> You lost all credibility yesterday when you said AEW would do 400,000 viewers. Now you are just a joke. Who I laugh at and ignore.


He claimed being 16 years old made him no longer a teenager.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

Jonhern said:


> I think it is too long too but I don't think they need to do every month PPV, they can do specials on TNT instead like WCW did with Clash of Champions and WWF did with Saturday Nights Main Event. Blow off the smaller feuds there and save the big money feuds for PPV.


Like Bash at the Beach/ Jericho Cruise?


----------



## incomplete moron

Deathiscoming said:


> May be for you if that's your cuppa. I can't even take Adam Cole seriously. Jungle Boy has bigger/more defined biceps and shoulders(testosterone) and he's freaking jungle boy and isn't considered someone with SIZE. That itself disqualifies Cole as anything. IDK about stunt but Jungle boy has potential, not Hogan or Austin level potential, but potential.
> 
> Mox is overrated AF and can't even wrestle. His knee strikes are so OFF from the opponent's chest that it makes it shocking if people take this guy seriously. I always found him to be the "bad" member of the Shield. The weak link.


yeah jungle boy also looks like a badass but IMO stunt is better.. stunt is austin potential and jungle boy is kalisto potential 

agreed about mox, worst wrestler ever,dunno how he managed to brainwash almost everyone into believin he's some kind of savior of wrestling or god lol cringe


----------



## incomplete moron

bdon said:


> .
> 
> 
> He claimed being 16 years old made him no longer a teenager.


and? how's that wrong lol? teenagers are from age 10 to 13, from 13 to 19 are adolescents,and from 20 to 25 are youngins,and so on and so forth


----------



## ripcitydisciple

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW cannot compete with WWE because of the WWE Network. 2M subscribers at $10 is $20M a month in near pure revenue. $240M a year.
> 
> Subscription services is where the money is now. AEW needs to jump on that sooner than later. WWE gives away all it's PPV's as part of the $10 monthly subscription. There is a reason most gyms only charge that as well - it's likely the price point discovered where people will continue to pay it even without using it - it's the subscription price sweet spot.
> 
> $200 a year for four AEW PPV's or $120 a year for 20 or so WWE PPV's?
> 
> Their current deal with iN DEMAND should be their last. They should spend the next two years building their own "online network" where they don't lose a big percentage to a middle man and can control the price.


What about lack of content? Isn't the reason subscriptions like WWE Network, NJPW WORLD, Honor Club, Impact+ are worth the cost is due to the amount of content on those platforms? From past PPV's, shows, documentaries, interviews, etc. Their is a large catalog of stuff people can watch. Does AEW have that? Would just showing PPV's be enough to justify a Subscription service?


----------



## bdon

incomplete moron said:


> and? how's that wrong lol? teenagers are from age 10 to 13, from 13 to 19 are adolescents,and from 20 to 25 are youngins,and so on and so forth


No kid. You’re incredibly wrong on this one. Just stop while you’re ahead.


----------



## RiverFenix

ripcitydisciple said:


> What about lack of content? Isn't the reason subscriptions like WWE Network, NJPW WORLD, Honor Club, Impact+ are worth the cost is due to the amount of content on those platforms? From past PPV's, shows, documentaries, interviews, etc. Their is a large catalog of stuff people can watch. Does AEW have that? Would just showing PPV's be enough to justify a Subscription service?


Probably not. Basically I just want way cheaper PPV's. Could move DARK, BTE, Eating Roomservice on the ROad (or whatever it is called), CVV interviews, Nightmare Family Productions and the like to the service. Basically all the free youtube content they offer right now - paywall it. 

Just give me $35 USD PPV cost and I'd be happy though with the status quo otherwise.


----------



## Jonhern

ripcitydisciple said:


> Like Bash at the Beach/ Jericho Cruise?


no those are just themed dynamite episodes, i mean a monthly or maybe halfway between PPVs doing an extra show on Saturday on TNT.


----------



## kingfrass44

incomplete moron said:


> agreed with everything except marko stunt being ''kiddy cringy crap'', IMO he oozes physical charisma (and otherwise) and demands respect, he could be next scsa if pushed correctly, not that untalented jabroni mox


you are kidding
Won't pushed that midget geek Or destroy Ratings
marko could be next scsa In the alternative world Hardcore crazy
Opinion smark doesn't matter But the fact The fact that he is the only one to gain views in all episodes




incomplete moron said:


> yeah jungle boy also looks like a badass but IMO stunt is better.. stunt is austin potential and jungle boy is kalisto potential
> 
> agreed about mox, worst wrestler ever,dunno how he managed to brainwash almost everyone into believin he's some kind of savior of wrestling or god lol cringe


you are kidding
austin potential In an alternative world From Smark's
you are kidding It's a geek, not more and Not austin
mox Like it or not You can't deny it's a draw.


----------



## kingfrass44

[/QUOTE]


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> wtf are you talkin about, when did I say they would do 400,000 viewers lol? obvious troll is obvious


All I know you looked like a huge idiot after ratings came out yesterday lol.


----------



## imthegame19

TheFiend666 said:


> Wanna bet? lmao


What did you bet haha


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


Haha. Lost all credibility


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> yeah jungle boy also looks like a badass but IMO stunt is better.. stunt is austin potential and jungle boy is kalisto potential
> 
> agreed about mox, worst wrestler ever,dunno how he managed to brainwash almost everyone into believin he's some kind of savior of wrestling or god lol cringe


Little teenage 16 year old boy. You have no clue what a good wrestler is.


----------



## incomplete moron

bdon said:


> No kid. You’re incredibly wrong on this one. Just stop while you’re ahead.


prove it


----------



## incomplete moron

kingfrass44 said:


> you are kidding
> Won't pushed that midget geek Or destroy Ratings
> marko could be next scsa In the alternative world Hardcore crazy
> Opinion smark doesn't matter But the fact The fact that he is the only one to gain views in all episodes
> 
> 
> 
> you are kidding
> austin potential In an alternative world From Smark's
> you are kidding It's a geek, not more and Not austin
> mox Like it or not You can't deny it's a draw.


no,dead serious,he has it ALL. why does it matter if he's a midget (and he's not,barely,but he's not) if he's fucking perfect wrestler,in every segment?! talk about shallow and superficial lol. shame on you..


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> All I know you looked like a huge idiot after ratings came out yesterday lol.


no I didn't lol stop lyin


----------



## ripcitydisciple

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Probably not. Basically I just want way cheaper PPV's. Could move DARK, BTE, Eating Roomservice on the ROad (or whatever it is called), CVV interviews, Nightmare Family Productions and the like to the service. Basically all the free youtube content they offer right now - paywall it.
> 
> Just give me $35 USD PPV cost and I'd be happy though with the status quo otherwise.


If they were to do what you suggest and put all their YouTube content, that you currently get for free, if they then put it behind a paywall, you are going to piss a lot of people off and they may decide they don't want to get AEW's subscription service at all.

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose?


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> Haha. Lost all credibility


why wtf?! I said they'll get 400k, not 400 000 viewers like you said, you just buried yourself with your ''proof'' lol


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> Little teenage 16 year old boy. You have no clue what a good wrestler is.


yes I do lol stop lyin. and I'm not 16, shows what you know -.- NOTHING lol PWNED


----------



## bdon

How do I put this motherfucker on ignore?


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

We are caring about ratings at this point too much broskis !


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> How do I put this motherfucker on ignore?


Click on his pseudo and you'll see "ignore"


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> yes I do lol stop lyin. and I'm not 16, shows what you know -.- NOTHING lol PWNED


Only 16 year old or younger would say PWNED lol.


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones


Hmmm..


Wrong about not doing 800,000 and wrong about 700,000. Also wrong about dropping to 300,000 or 400,000 viewers. Wrong again that holiday had nothing to do with it. Credibility totally lost lol. Most trolls run and hide after a few days. You must like looking clueless haha.


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> Only 16 year old or younger would say PWNED lol.


I wrote ''pwned'' on purpose, just to make you think I'm really 16 when to an intelligent person it's obvious I was joking bout that lol I'm manipulating you like a beach ^^



imthegame19 said:


> Wrong about not doing 800,000 and wrong about 700,000. Also wrong about dropping to 300,000 or 400,000 viewers. Wrong again that holiday had nothing to do with it. Credibility totally lost lol. Most trolls run and hide after a few days. You must like looking clueless haha.


..let's try again lol, I didn't say they'll drop to 400 000 VIEWERS, I said they'll drop to 400k. I never MENTIONED viewers, I merely wrote 400k, and when I wrote that, I wasn't referring to viewers at all,but something completely else


----------



## CHAMPIONSHIPS

Glad to hear the ratings bounced back


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

kingfrass44 said:


> You're right If you live in the world of hardcode
> It's obvious that you live the world alone.
> You live in your little world If you think everything has turned niche Except maybe blockbuster Superhero movies
> Hardcode They live in the world on their own


Name another massive global trend outside of Superhero movies

football is one

Fortnite and Minecraft might be another, but that is very gamer centric

Disney movies too.

...... and .....

lets say it like this - my interests are

Rugby
Comics (DC specific)
AEW
Mobile Games (turn based mostly)
Game development (mobile)
Ps4 games (AAA titles mostly, shooters)
Youtube cooking shows
Anime / Manga
Hermitcraft


i have a community, very much like this one I interact with almost for each one - they get as testy about BS as much as wrestling fans - but would you describe any of those hobbies as Mainstream? How much does your interests and mine cross over?

skip back to the 80s and we both plus 80% of our friends would be watching M.A.S.H

today its all compartmentalised - and its easy to see, as I advertise quite a bit, and the amount of ‘key groups’ you can target is madness

Edit: one more example - ‘Hannity’ has beaten both Raw, AEW and NXT in the ratings with overall viewership this week. WTF is Hannity without googling it. Same with ’Challenge: war of the Worlds’ - beat AEW and NXT in the key demo - wtf is that even?


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> I wrote ''pwned'' on purpose, just to make you think I'm really 16 when to an intelligent person it's obvious I was joking bout that lol I'm manipulating you like a beach ^^
> 
> 
> ..let's try again lol, I didn't say they'll drop to 400 000 VIEWERS, I said they'll drop to 400k. I never MENTIONED viewers, I merely wrote 400k, and when I wrote that, I wasn't referring to viewers at all,but something completely else


Nice story and nice job ignoring everything else you were wrong about. You're posts aprove that you aren't an intelligent person. Nice try to twist stuff and make excuses. Nobody gonna buy it. Hopefully you learned you're lesson not to troll and run your mouth son. Now you have no choice but to look like a fool. That has no credibility with bunch of people blocking you or leave the forum.


----------



## bdon

rbl85 said:


> Click on his pseudo and you'll see "ignore"


You, sir, are a life (and hair) saver.


----------



## bdon

I’m not sure he is even 16 years old. The fact he tried to play off the “I said 400k, not 400 000 VIEWERS..” reeks of the lies my 4 year old will try to use against her mother and I.


----------



## Derek30

What the hell happened in here?


----------



## Buhalovski

This forum turned into a trash with the recent update. Holy hell, did all people migrate to other places? Im tired of ignoring all of these burner accounts.


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> Nice story and nice job ignoring everything else you were wrong about. You're posts aprove that you aren't an intelligent person. Nice try to twist stuff and make excuses. Nobody gonna buy it. Hopefully you learned you're lesson not to troll and run your mouth son. Now you have no choice but to look like a fool. That has no credibility with bunch of people blocking you or leave the forum.


but how can I be BOTH trolling AND wrong u fuckin moron?! pick one lol, I can't be both (hint: I'm trollin literally all the time u fuckeen morons lmao, typin nonsense and retarded posts to make u bash me and feel good about yourselves cuz u stoopid as hell and can't recognize obvious trollin and baitin and messin around u dimwits lol)



bdon said:


> I’m not sure he is even 16 years old. The fact he tried to play off the “I said 400k, not 400 000 VIEWERS..” reeks of the lies my 4 year old will try to use against her mother and I.


I'm well above 16 mate,I'm 44 actually so..
well that was the point pal lol! to type stuff only kids and teenagers would say,so u naive individuals would BELIII I'm kid or teenager while I'm laughin my ass off at ur expense lol u'r welcome


----------



## incomplete moron

Tsvetoslava said:


> This forum turned into a trash with the recent update. Holy hell, did all people migrate to other places? Im tired of ignoring all of these burner accounts.


it was trash way before these updates, all forums are trash,with trashy,stoopid people givin their irrelevant and stoopid opinions and rants and pretending they're better/smatrter than they are, feigning some ''seriousness'' and ''class'' while abhorring those they deem ''trolls'' ''marks'' etc all the while not realizing THEY'RE the ones who come off stupid and pathetic cuz we so called ''trolls'' and other social pariahs play y'all like fiddle lol BOW DOWN TO TEH KINGZ!11


----------



## virus21

Tsvetoslava said:


> This forum turned into a trash with the recent update. Holy hell, did all people migrate to other places? Im tired of ignoring all of these burner accounts.


Many went to Discord.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

People who left will surely be back. 

They are just weak minded folks who can't adjust to change - It's gonna take sometime for those mental midgets to comeback and truly realize and appreciate how amazing WF has become.


----------



## rbl85

I'mTheGreatest said:


> People who left will surely be back.
> 
> They are just weak minded folks who can't adjust to change - It's gonna take sometime for those mental midgets to comeback and truly realize and appreciate how amazing WF has become.


yeah at first it was "hard" to really navigate on the new forum but after a couple of days it's easy.


----------



## TheFiend666

AEW marks are embarrassing 

Can't give a negative opinion without one acting like a little girl and crying


----------



## imthegame19

incomplete moron said:


> but how can I be BOTH trolling AND wrong u fuckin moron?! pick one lol, I can't be both (hint: I'm trollin literally all the time u fuckeen morons lmao, typin nonsense and retarded posts to make u bash me and feel good about yourselves cuz u stoopid as hell and can't recognize obvious trollin and baitin and messin around u dimwits lol)


You sound like a winner. Must be pretty pathetic life you have lol.


----------



## imthegame19

TheFiend666 said:


> AEW marks are embarrassing
> 
> Can't give a negative opinion without one acting like a little girl and crying


What did you bet me for being right and you wrong? Actually coming to forum and wasting your time trashing something and baiting fans is what's sad. I think Raw/Smackdown suck and not even watchable most weeks. While I have no interest in NXT. Yet I don't waste my time posting on those forums.


----------



## RiverFenix

TheFiend666 said:


> AEW marks are embarrassing
> 
> Can't give a negative opinion without one acting like a little girl and crying


You can offer negative opinions - but its glaringly obvious trolling when you only parachute in to shit talk and never talk positively about the company. I mean if there is nothing redeeming and positives don't outweigh the negatives than why watch? Trolls basking in all their glory with the bad Thanksgiving Eve rating wholly disappeared this week when AEW rating bounced back to their norm.


----------



## virus21

The funny thing is that WWE marks have far thinner skin. They have been doing this shit since TNA was getting some main stream attention. They bitch forever on how bad WWE is, but when there is a chance for competition, they go on the defensive. Most also seem to be Attitude Era dick riders who can't get over the fact that 20 years have gone by and they can't be kids again.


----------



## incomplete moron

imthegame19 said:


> You sound like a winner. Must be pretty pathetic life you have lol.


thanks,agreed
we all have pathetic lives, life in itself is quite pathetic PAL, u'r born only to suffer and then die lol so no point in picking one particular life,they're all the same essentially


----------



## Gh0stFace

Gh0stFace said:


> o-home show is next week an





virus21 said:


> The funny thing is that WWE marks have far thinner skin. They have been doing this shit since TNA was getting some main stream attention. They bitch forever on how bad WWE is, but when there is a chance for competition, they go on the defensive. Most also seem to be Attitude Era dick riders who can't get over the fact that 20 years have gone by and they can't be kids again.


Well the demo is mostly boomers


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> i think I got confused with a replay. I remember seeing that number thrown around. My bad.
> In its very early days on USA
> 
> i know it’s niche, but since when did being niche mean that the business is fucked?
> WWE are out here still making whatever hundreds of millions profit
> 
> idk but some of you goofies seem to want wrestling to be on Disney level. Never gonna happen bud. Lower your expectations.


Expecting numbers to be better and expecting Disney numbers are not synonymous. It might just be expected that you don’t lose 600k, or that a fresh wrestling product would do better than 1.4 million even in 2019. 



bdon said:


> That very same “C brand” buried the two main rosters, so what are they exactly?


That’s not what buried means. 



Deathiscoming said:


> Your understanding of "niche" is correct. A company could be a niche product, cater to a particular niche and generate profits/income and sustain itself. But at what point do its customers start dwindling or the profits cease to be as significant or good enough for that company to sustain itself, let alone grow/thrive?
> 
> So in this case there's the WWE with its loyal hardcore fanbase, its "niche" resulting into their TV deals, the Saudi shows... And we're talking about BILLIONS of dollars/hundreds of millions of yearly profit here. In this instance, the WWE can afford to put out a shit product and displease its consumers.. For a while. Because they have 100s of millions of dollars and 2-3M avg viewers constituting their "niche" fanbase. Until they start dwindling/quit in significant numbers, of course.
> 
> But can AEW? Their product is even more of a "niche" in a wrestling market that includes the Juggernaut the WWE, NJPW, Impact. By putting out a product dominated by Japanese/women wrestlers, Cringy/kiddy crap(orange Cassidy, Marko stunt), Darby Allin/Joey Janella/Moxley with their hardcore wrestling, and flippy shit like Young Bucks/Private Party/Luchas...they've already ensured that (oh and I fucking forgot Nyla Rose,Brandi, Kong chick) they only attract and maintain a certain group of fans, a "niche" product catering to 500-800K fans. Because 1.5 or so Million viewers checked out Dynamite debut on October 2 but only half the fans watch now isn't it?
> 
> The question to then ask is, at what point does this "niche" dwindle and become irrelevant? That's what @incomplete moron meant when he said niche= fucked = irrelevant.
> 
> And AEW's product IMO would appeal to far fewer new fans/casuals than the WWE's (as shitty as the WWE have been since the PG John Cena fruity pebbles era).
> 
> I don't see AEW ever grow with the people they're pushing and the direction they're going. As a matter of fact, unlike the WWE, they don't have 2-3M avg viewers across 3 shows, the WWE network, TV deals, and Saudi shows.


Excellent post. Just wanted to point that out. 



rbl85 said:


> What do you guys expected ?
> 
> If wrestling was popular then RAW or Smackdown would do more than 3.5M.
> 
> RAW and SD are still doing more than 2M because they are 2 really old show with really old people watching it.
> 
> No other wrestling show will ever do 1.5m or 2m viewers every week.


Then let’s give up now. I don’t know why people are so dismissive of the potential appeal good wrestling could have. 



imthegame19 said:


> Haha. Lost all credibility


What “credibility?” This is a wrestling forum. Can we please stop making fun of people for their alleged ages or because of “Ha! Gotcha!” moments. It’s unbecoming. 

For the record, when talking Nielsen numbers, 850k and 700k are not that far off. Technically, a show that gets an estimated 700k viewers could be doing more than a show that gets an estimated 850k. The 10% variance either way does make them overlap.


----------



## RiverFenix

Why running PPV's on Saturday Nights is a problem - 


> Thus, with plans to hold the show in February, Meltzer brought up the other events taking place that month both boxing and UFC. Deontay Wilder vs. Tyson Fury is scheduled for 2/22 while Jon Jones vs. Dominick Reyes is on 2/8. There is a UFC show on 2/15 headlined by Jan Blachowicz vs. Corey Anderson.
> 
> Thus, it leaves 2/1 and 2/29. Which of those dates that AEW picks is purely speculation at this time.


Now I'd say they can't worry about UFC in that they run so many shows, and I doubt there is much cross over really. But they would have to avoid the big UFC cards and draws like McGregor or Jones. Now I'd say Blachowicz vs Anderson shouldn't deter them from Feb 15th, but it's not a PPV but on ESPN as a free Fight Night card. Free fights vs $50 USD PPV, the UFC card might be enough to take those on the fence from purchasing it. And NXT's standalone Sunday Takeover is in Portland on the 16th. 

February 1st is the day before Superbowl Sunday. 2/29 is probably a little late to have to have two and half more months of television before a PPV to book for. 

I'm betting they take a risk here and go for February 1st. And I'm betting they're holding off on an announcement for it until they secure the trademark - SuperBrawl. Get that and run the PPV a day before the Superbowl. 

WWE is probably challenging that copyright - how long would such a thing play out in court? 

Superbowl is Feb 2nd in Miami. AEW is in Miami on January 15th - obviously they wouldn't be back so soon for a PPV. They have to announce soon if it's the very early February date as they already have the Cleveland show for January 29th on sale. Cleveland reportedly isn't selling well - but if they're in the area for the go-home show, they're going to be in the mid-west again for the PPV. Chicago is burned out. If Cleveland isn't selling well, I can't see them heading to Cincy even if it would be Moxley hometown to get a big Moxley vs Jericho title match(this would be why they would still do it though). If Cleveland is selling poorly and Chicago is burnt out that Detroit wouldn't be a good spot either given fans would travel to both Chicago and Cleveland if they wanted to go to shows.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> What “credibility?” This is a wrestling forum. Can we please stop making fun of people for their alleged ages or because of “Ha! Gotcha!” moments. It’s unbecoming.
> 
> For the record, when talking Nielsen numbers, 850k and 700k are not that far off. Technically, a show that gets an estimated 700k viewers could be doing more than a show that gets an estimated 850k. The 10% variance either way does make them overlap.


I posted numbers and explained exactly why AEW were down last week and why they would increase this week. Every thing I said was exactly right. So of course I'm gonna call the few people who told me I was wrong. If someone runs his mouth saying ridiculous unrealistic things. They aren't on here to have a discussion and only purpose is to piss people off . So once their ridiculous comments don't come true. They lose all credibility and get looked at as hater or troll in my book.


Also we had every right to call out that guy.He's admitting now that he was trolling everyone. So you should pay attention to who you are trying defend. Because now you just look silly too. FWIW I think you are wrong about stuff and I disagree with you about stuff. But I don't think you are a troll. That said there's handful of people who clearly are tho.


----------



## K4L318

incomplete moron said:


> wtf are you talkin about, when did I say they would do 400,000 viewers lol? obvious troll is obvious


bruh ya told me they wouldnt do 800K



incomplete moron said:


> 800k lol gimme a break,they'll probably be 700k if they're lucky,and even that is extremely low number. it wouldn't surprise me if they sink even more, to 300-400k. it doesn't have anything to do with thanksgiving ffs, it's cuz they're pushing wrong people and burying the right ones





K4L318 said:


> if they do 800K will you delete your account and never come back?


whats good Dollar Store Nos?


----------



## K4L318

ya can tell who knows about the wrestling biz and who dont on this thread. For peeps sayin it can never overtake WWE. Yes it can, history has always shown that it can. 
The money goes to the hottest act. Create the baby face star and they will come, create the weekly star heel and they will watch. TV is about personalities and believe this or not
WWE has no personality.


----------



## Deathiscoming

incomplete moron said:


> but how can I be BOTH trolling AND wrong u fuckin moron?! pick one lol, I can't be both (hint: I'm trollin literally all the time u fuckeen morons lmao, typin nonsense and retarded posts to make u bash me and feel good about yourselves cuz u stoopid as hell and can't recognize obvious trollin and baitin and messin around u dimwits lol)


Yeah yesterday when you said "agreed with everything except Marko stunt being kiddy crap, I think he has charisma and is pushed correctly can reach Austin levels" lmao.

Right there, I saw two possibilities- either you're trolling and testing whether I REACT like most of these assclowns, "Oh look You lost credibility! you are a troll, confirmed for the 545th time!" Or you ACTUALLY believed the Marko stunt-austin claim. In which case not even GOD could argue and try to change your mind. It was ridiculous. So I responded, didn't argue about stunt (leading to endless back-and-forth and pointless waste of time) just so you could LYAO.

That was the only choice, to not take the bait, try to prove you wrong, take you seriously.


----------



## incomplete moron

K4L318 said:


> bruh ya told me they wouldnt do 800K


 yes, but I never said they wouldn't do 800 000 viewers, completely different thing dawg



K4L318 said:


> whats good Dollar Store Nos?


 interesting, but kinda pointless and silly question imo..I mean, what does ''good'' even mean? you can say that what is ''good'' is, for example, being happy, or to have a family friends etc,that is ''good'' for most of people cuz it makes them ''happy'', to have harmony in their lives etc..but if u mean what is MORALLY,ethically good..that's even more of a conundrum cuz so called ''morality'' etc is just a social construct and is very subjective,depends of one group of people's beliefs etc so..it really can't be seen as absolute, or something that EVERYONE should accept, that leads to conformism and brain dead people..which we already have so..
now, if instead of WHAT is good u asked me WHO is good- that would be easier to answer but still similar to the previous topic..but I digress.. 



Deathiscoming said:


> Yeah yesterday when you said "agreed with everything except Marko stunt being kiddy crap, I think he has charisma and is pushed correctly can reach Austin levels" lmao.
> 
> Right there, I saw two possibilities- either you're trolling and testing whether I REACT like most of these assclowns, "Oh look You lost credibility! you are a troll, confirmed for the 545th time!" Or you ACTUALLY believed the Marko stunt-austin claim. In which case not even GOD could argue and try to change your mind. It was ridiculous. So I responded, didn't argue about stunt (leading to endless back-and-forth and pointless waste of time) just so you could LYAO.
> 
> That was the only choice, to not take the bait, try to prove you wrong, take you seriously.


I love you sooo so much honey..


----------



## Deathiscoming

incomplete moron said:


> I love you sooo so much honey..


I love you too. I'm melting like a wax candle.

Your posts about life being meaningless or boring for everybody and "we're born to suffer" are very perceptive, devious, Joker-esque and have undertones of Buddhist concept of Impermanence, BTW.

Only a damned fool would either state or be affected by an assertion like "your life sucks awhhh you loser, my life better!" ..

EDIT:- [email protected] paragraphs about morality, harmony, the good life, subjective. Very Joker-esque.


----------



## incomplete moron

Deathiscoming said:


> I love you too. I'm melting like a wax candle.
> 
> Your posts about life being meaningless or boring for everybody and "we're born to suffer" are very perceptive, devious, Joker-esque and have undertones of Buddhist concept of Impermanence, BTW.
> 
> Only a damned fool would either state or be affected by an assertion like "your life sucks awhhh you loser, my life better!" ..


mmm sexy..

agreed, I'm stoic buddhist genius <333

yup lol I cringe every time these clowns say stuff like that lmao it's beyond sad and ridiculous


----------



## DOTL

virus21 said:


> The funny thing is that WWE marks have far thinner skin. They have been doing this shit since TNA was getting some main stream attention. They bitch forever on how bad WWE is, but when there is a chance for competition, they go on the defensive. Most also seem to be Attitude Era dick riders who can't get over the fact that 20 years have gone by and they can't be kids again.


True. A lot of WWE fans don't even have a good enough sense of quality, after years of being inundated with garbage.


----------



## BigCy

Wow. I took some time off from here to focus on NJPW World Tag League and a little on AJPW "Real" World Tag World Tag League and to try to watch AEW without reading bias so I can have an objective look at it and I come back to this. Shout out to The Wood and a few of the others on here that make intelligent posts and to Fuzzy/Richie Dunlop who I often disagree with but is intelligent at articulating his points and making decent counter arguments. Can't remember who said it but I have to destroy the teenager argument.

Here is reality...
0-2 years - Infant
2-4 years - Toddler
5-9 years - Child
10-12 - Pre-teen or Tweens as some people call them
13-19 - Teenager, note that the word TEEN is at the end of the names of all those numbers
20-27 - Young adult...
etc...
100+ - Living Corpse

As far as ratings go...a little disappointed that AEW lost a couple to the E but considering what the E did to boost NXT ratings I'm not all that surprised. Hopefully AEW can gain some momentum back but I think they have a scatter-gun approach to their stories and it's not geling all that well imo. I want to see them sustain above a 1.0 rating with a .45 in the demo but they have to change or add a few things in order for this to start happening. What those additions and changes need to be are up for discussion and debate.

Completely agree with going to a streaming format, I've been wanting this since the beginning but realize why they didn't and why the current model is more realistic currently but I think they should absolutely begin taking steps to do this.

Don't really care for the new forum format but I'll give it a chance, might just need to get used to it.


----------



## xio8ups

Dave meltzer knows nothing he is told everything he spouts off.


----------



## K4L318

incomplete moron said:


> yes, but I never said they wouldn't do 800 000 viewers, completely different thing dawg


you were wrong and decided to be a clown, I just called it out loud. Look at ya fumbling here.


----------



## K4L318

BigCy said:


> As far as ratings go...a little disappointed that AEW lost a couple to the E but considering what the E did to boost NXT ratings I'm not all that surprised. Hopefully AEW can gain some momentum back but I think they have a scatter-gun approach to their stories and it's not geling all that well imo. I want to see them sustain above a 1.0 rating with a .45 in the demo but they have to change or add a few things in order for this to start happening. What those additions and changes need to be are up for discussion and debate.


AEW gained the +50 in the last 2 weeks. They used their women wisely except for Cody's wife which is a mess and centered Jericho in the middle of the show. They need to kick off wit Mox next week and play out a long episode angle. 

bruh only reason they losing momentum to NXT is cuz they dont block NXT's 10-15 extra minutes.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> AEW gained the +50 in the last 2 weeks. They used their women wisely except for Cody's wife which is a mess and centered Jericho in the middle of the show. They need to kick off wit Mox next week and play out a long episode angle.
> 
> bruh only reason they losing momentum to NXT is cuz they dont block NXT's 10-15 extra minutes.


AEW is not the ones who decide if they have an overrun or not, it's TNT and if TNT wanted AEW to have an overrun AEW would already have one.


----------



## RiverFenix

TNT made that add trumpeting AEW's rating success over NXT. I wonder if that means they're more invested in the outcome should NXT start winning more and thus be willing to give an over run. It's harder for TNT though, probably impossible given the scheduled programming for an overrun. Maybe invest in other ways - less commercial breaks or something would be a little thing that would pay off huge in the ratings battle.


----------



## rbl85

Less commercial breaks = less money, so no chance.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> Less commercial breaks = less money, so no chance.


Sure. But it's not that cut and dry. How much are they making per commercial break? And how much more valuable would consistently beating NXT in the ratings mean to TNT? Could that higher rating allow for TNT to charge more for ad time that would make up the difference?


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Sure. But it's not that cut and dry. How much are they making per commercial break? And how much more valuable would consistently beating NXT in the ratings mean to TNT? Could that higher rating allow for TNT to charge more for ad time that would make up the difference?


TNT does not make more money because they beat NXT


----------



## incomplete moron

K4L318 said:


> you were wrong and decided to be a clown, I just called it out loud. Look at ya fumbling here.


nope lol,stop lyin 



BigCy said:


> Here is reality...
> 0-2 years - Infant
> 2-4 years - Toddler
> 5-9 years - Child
> 10-12 - Pre-teen or Tweens as some people call them
> 13-19 - Teenager, note that the word TEEN is at the end of the names of all those numbers
> 20-27 - Young adult...
> etc...
> 100+ - Living Corpse


nope lol,completely wrong,it's like this:
0-2 years-baby
2-4 years-kiddy
5-9 years-kid
10-13- teen
13-24- preteen
25-67- postteen
100+-zombie


----------



## validreasoning

K4L318 said:


> ya can tell who knows about the wrestling biz and who dont on this thread. For peeps sayin it can never overtake WWE. Yes it can, history has always shown that it can.
> The money goes to the hottest act. Create the baby face star and they will come, create the weekly star heel and they will watch. TV is about personalities and believe this or not
> WWE has no personality.


Creating babyface star that's a real difference maker is toughest thing in this business. If it was easy AWA, WCW, ECW, WCCW, USWA etc would be still around. TNA never managed to get close to developing one in ten years on Spike.

Since 1990 or last 30 years in the US you had Sting in 97, Goldberg in 98, Austin 98-April 2001, Rock 99-2002 and Cena 2006-14 that you really could say were actual difference makers. Cena was hated by the 18-39 male hardcore demo too but brought in tons of kids and women.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> TNT does not make more money because they beat NXT


They why did they care enough to make a commercial about it?


----------



## RiverFenix

validreasoning said:


> Creating babyface star that's a real difference maker is toughest thing in this business. If it was easy AWA, WCW, ECW, WCCW, USWA etc would be still around. TNA never managed to get close to developing one in ten years on Spike.
> 
> Since 1990 or last 30 years in the US you had Sting in 97, Goldberg in 98, Austin 98-April 2001, Rock 99-2002 and Cena 2006-14 that you really could say were actual difference makers. Cena was hated by the 18-39 male hardcore demo too but brought in tons of kids and women.


Will even be harder to do in this social media cancel culture feeding frenzy atmosphere.


----------



## rbl85

For those wondering about the tickets sale for the next shows :
Next week show is doing good.
The show in Corpus Christi is doing bad
The show in Jacksonville is doing normal (not good not bad)
The show in Southaven is doing really bad (less than 1.5k tickets sold and a good amount of them are on StubHub)
The show in Miami is doing good.


----------



## RiverFenix

Is Southaven the one in Mississippi they try to call "Greater Memphis Area" in their ads?


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> They why did they care enough to make a commercial about it?


Because they hope more people will watch AEW if they do something like that, it's the same logic than the clickbait title on a YouTube video.
TNT don't care if NXT beat AEW as long as AEW is doing ratings that TNT like. Next week if NXT does 3M viewers and AEW 1.5M, TNT will be in heaven with the rating of AEW. 

If TNT really wanted to hurt NXT, they would give AEW a 10-15min overrun.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Is Southaven the one in Mississippi they try to call "Greater Memphis Area" in their ads?


Well Southaven is at +/- 10 miles of Memphis


----------



## K4L318

bruh you a flop


incomplete moron said:


> nope lol,stop lyin


----------



## K4L318

validreasoning said:


> Creating babyface star that's a real difference maker is toughest thing in this business. If it was easy AWA, WCW, ECW, WCCW, USWA etc would be still around. TNA never managed to get close to developing one in ten years on Spike.
> 
> Since 1990 or last 30 years in the US you had Sting in 97, Goldberg in 98, Austin 98-April 2001, Rock 99-2002 and Cena 2006-14 that you really could say were actual difference makers. Cena was hated by the 18-39 male hardcore demo too but brought in tons of kids and women.


And that is why AEW has the advantage. They have babyfaces who are over and gaining momentum wit personality per show. In 6 months that demo is gonna double cuz the 18-49 audience is in a weekly routine of watching TNT and they likely dont watch it alone.


----------



## validreasoning

K4L318 said:


> And that is why AEW has the advantage. They have babyfaces who are over and gaining momentum wit personality per show. In 6 months that demo is gonna double cuz the 18-49 audience is in a weekly routine of watching TNT and they likely dont watch it alone.


January to April is Mania season when WWE see it's biggest audiences of the year and biggest stars on TV frequently. May/June is NBA and NHL playoffs which last 18 years outside October-mid December is quietest part of year for pro wrestling in the states.

You can have babyfaces over with live audience but being actual difference makers that will double audience in 6 months would need someone as hot as Austin in 98 or Rock in 2000.


----------



## RiverFenix

Easiest way to double your viewers would be to get one of those internet celebrities on the show. That KSI dude has indicated he would like to try wrestling. 



> In a recent interview with AllHipHop, KSI was asked about British boxer Tyson Fury’s recent stint with WWE, and if he has interest stepping in the squared circle.
> 
> “I like doing that type of stuff. Of course, I’m always open to doing WWE, AEW, or whatever organization there is.” KSI stated, ” I’ve been a fan for years. Man, that’s my childhood. I used to watch Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, Hulk Hogan, Sting, Mick Foley/Mankind, The Undertaker, all these guys, Triple H”


Seems like a WWE would be his top goal, but given he knows AEW even exists means he's more than just a casual wrestling fan. 

Dude makes serious bank though, so not sure his price tag. Could be a case of where he makes so much he does a wrestling program for the experience.


----------



## K4L318

validreasoning said:


> January to April is Mania season when WWE see it's biggest audiences of the year and biggest stars on TV frequently. May/June is NBA and NHL playoffs which last 18 years outside October-mid December is quietest part of year for pro wrestling in the states.
> 
> You can have babyfaces over with live audience but being actual difference makers that will double audience in 6 months would need someone as hot as Austin in 98 or Rock in 2000.


that audience has descended, year after year.


----------



## incomplete moron

K4L318 said:


> bruh you a flop


as in flip-flop? nope bruh,I ain't no footwear or sandal lol, I'm a person ffs :SS


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> For those wondering about the tickets sale for the next shows :
> Next week show is doing good.
> The show in Corpus Christi is doing bad
> The show in Jacksonville is doing normal (not good not bad)
> The show in Southaven is doing really bad (less than 1.5k tickets sold and a good amount of them are on StubHub)
> The show in Miami is doing good.


i think we’ll see the nest round of sellouts when the finally move to the west coast and international


----------



## Gh0stFace

Goddamn my IQ went down by 30 points reading that stupid moron kid's posts. Kids need to be banned from this forum.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> I posted numbers and explained exactly why AEW were down last week and why they would increase this week. Every thing I said was exactly right. So of course I'm gonna call the few people who told me I was wrong. If someone runs his mouth saying ridiculous unrealistic things. They aren't on here to have a discussion and only purpose is to piss people off . So once their ridiculous comments don't come true. They lose all credibility and get looked at as hater or troll in my book.
> 
> 
> Also we had every right to call out that guy.He's admitting now that he was trolling everyone. So you should pay attention to who you are trying defend. Because now you just look silly too. FWIW I think you are wrong about stuff and I disagree with you about stuff. But I don't think you are a troll. That said there's handful of people who clearly are tho.


Everybody and their dog knew that the numbers would go slightly up. When I predict things on here that everyone calls "trolling," people don't give me any credit, so why should you get any for stating the obvious? How fucking old are you? 



K4L318 said:


> ya can tell who knows about the wrestling biz and who dont on this thread. For peeps sayin it can never overtake WWE. Yes it can, history has always shown that it can.
> The money goes to the hottest act. Create the baby face star and they will come, create the weekly star heel and they will watch. TV is about personalities and believe this or not
> WWE has no personality.


Barely _anybody_ in this thread knows what they are talking about. AEW has got a lot of similar problems to WWE. Whoever fixes it first will have the advantage in the AEW/NXT clash, anyway. 



DOTL said:


> True. A lot of WWE fans don't even have a good enough sense of quality, after years of being inundated with garbage.


This is exactly why people are making unreasonable defenses for the bullshit AEW does. They're so used to bullshit. By the way, it's fine that people are being unreasonable about it. That's part of being a fan, yeah? But it's just the hysteria of how people act when it's pointed out in a discussion that tries to be objective. 



K4L318 said:


> And that is why AEW has the advantage. They have babyfaces who are over and gaining momentum wit personality per show. In 6 months that demo is gonna double cuz the 18-49 audience is in a weekly routine of watching TNT and they likely dont watch it alone.


What evidence is there to say that anyone is more over? Ratings aren't going up. Attendance isn't going up. What metric suggests that anyone is more over than when they started? 

Pushing Jungle Boy is smart. But a lot of a criticisms I hear about NXT are they are "hot-shotting." Is it too early to push Jack Perry? Maybe. Possibly not. But that there is the urgency to create _someone_ is an issue, and a lot of what AEW is doing is trying to keep the coals alight. 



K4L318 said:


> that audience has descended, year after year.


AEW's is decreasing fairly consistently too.


----------



## RiverFenix

Two more locations for Dynamite announced today, first at 11am and second at 12 noon. Should be for February 5th and 12th episodes as Cleveland was announced already for the January 29th.

Also this means no PPV on Feb 1st. So now likely date for the PPV is February 29th (I guess could make something out of it being the Leap Year). Makes some sense given Jericho said in a recent interview that AEW is storylined though the end of February.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204068083737997313
Why? Will be interesting if Nyla or Sonny are on the show.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1204068083737997313
> Why? Will be interesting if Nyla or Sonny are on the show.


Odd they are going back to the midwest and south after heading to texas this month would've thought they would hit up the west coast early next year. Guessing its because of the Jericho cruise.


----------



## RiverFenix

Jonhern said:


> Odd they are going back to the midwest and south after heading to texas this month would've thought they would hit up the west coast early next year. Guessing its because of the Jericho cruise.


One of the Jackson's said they'd be in Cali in the Spring.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Two more locations for Dynamite announced today, first at 11am and second at 12 noon. Should be for February 5th and 12th episodes as Cleveland was announced already for the January 29th.
> 
> Also this means no PPV on Feb 1st. So now likely date for the PPV is February 29th (I guess could make something out of it being the Leap Year). Makes some sense given Jericho said in a recent interview that AEW is storylined though the end of February.


I don't think they will announce the date for the next PPV on Twitter, they're probably going to do it during a episode of Dynamite.


----------



## rbl85

The 12 of february they will be in Austin Texas.


----------



## RiverFenix

The 15th would go H2H with a free tv UFC card, with NXT's stand alone PPV on the 16th. Could do Dallas or Houston given they're in Austin on that Wednesday though.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> The 15th would go H2H with a free tv UFC card, with NXT's stand alone PPV on the 16th. Could do Dallas or Houston given they're in Austin on that Wednesday though.


I see them going in direction of the west coast after Austin.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Jon Moxley, PAC and Kenny Omega are the AEW Kings of YT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> View attachment 81255
> 
> 
> Jon Moxley, PAC and Kenny Omega are the AEW Kings of YT.


Those are pretty good numbers


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Those are pretty good numbers


And people say that AEW isn't growing









They need to look at these numbers and book 2020 with these three as FOTC. They can really elevate some of the other talent, like Page, MJF etc.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> Remember he is not an expert, it's pretty clear if he said something like that. IDK where he is getting those numbers from because I doubt TNT sees .38 as rock bottom. Their highest-rated scripted show averaged .33 demo for their last season. They only hit .4-.41 for the premiere and the last two episodes. All the other episodes were .33 and under. And if they are only paying 500k to AEW per episode its way under what they were paying for that show, Animal Kingdom, or any of their other shows that did even lower numbers.


I listened to the follow up and Meltzer said AEW is in a little bit of trouble with them being so far below .40 in the demo and not having bottomed out yet. He basically said NXT has a safety net in that WWE will prop them up but AEW doesn’t have that luxury. I think he’s saying if AEW doesn’t stay strong in the key demo they are at risk of Khan pulling the plug. To be clear Meltzer didn’t come out and say that explicitly. He was just ominously beating around the bush so who knows.

And I agree he isn’t a ratings or viewership expert but he is probably talking regularly to the AEW brain trust so he is very likely informed. I saw that quarter by quarter breakdown and I’m at a loss as to what AEW is doing. They are putting segments on the show that they know are going to lose 50k to 100k, then leaving stuff that draws well off the show like Omega and that MJF promo that didn’t even air. They are really making dumb mistakes that I didnt expect them to make.


----------



## rbl85

If TNT was expecting 500-600K viewers then i don't think that TNT was expecting a super strong demo.


----------



## Jonhern

ClintDagger said:


> I listened to the follow up and Meltzer said AEW is in a little bit of trouble with them being so far below .40 in the demo and not having bottomed out yet. He basically said NXT has a safety net in that WWE will prop them up but AEW doesn’t have that luxury. I think he’s saying if AEW doesn’t stay strong in the key demo they are at risk of Khan pulling the plug. To be clear Meltzer didn’t come out and say that explicitly. He was just ominously beating around the bush so who knows.
> 
> And I agree he isn’t a ratings or viewership expert but he is probably talking regularly to the AEW brain trust so he is very likely informed. I saw that quarter by quarter breakdown and I’m at a loss as to what AEW is doing. They are putting segments on the show that they know are going to lose 50k to 100k, then leaving stuff that draws well off the show like Omega and that MJF promo that didn’t even air. They are really making dumb mistakes that I didnt expect them to make.


he's probably getting fed bull shit if that is the number he thinks is a target, especially since if you look at the average which is how you would look at the numbers, not in isolation, they are at .41 for the first 10 weeks. They would have to be at .3 for several months before it started coming down significantly. it might sound low but a .4 is not an easy number to hit in today's tv environment. As I stated in another post hitting a .5 would land a program in the top 25 cable shows for the whole week 80-90% of the year. A .4 lands you in the weekly top 50. they are exceeding most people's expectations so far, just from looking at data you would actually think thier expectations were closer to .3 for the show not .4.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jonhern said:


> he's probably getting fed bull shit if that is the number he thinks is a target, especially since if you look at the average which is how you would look at the numbers, not in isolation, they are at .41 for the first 10 weeks. They would have to be at .3 for several months before it started coming down significantly. it might sound low but a .4 is not an easy number to hit in today's tv environment. As I stated in another post hitting a .5 would land a program in the top 25 cable shows for the whole week 80-90% of the year. A .4 lands you in the weekly top 50. they are exceeding most people's expectations so far, just from looking at data you would actually think thier expectations were closer to .3 for the show not .4.


Who knows? It’s certainly possible he’s being fed BS but it’s very possible he’s plugged in as well given how tight he is with the brain trust at AEW. Meltzer has been a big cheerleader for AEW and hearing him say the demo number is concerning was surprising to me. He did say that .32 wasn’t a bad number, but that they really need a .40; my guess is he’s basing all of this on potential future tv deals. What really matters is where they end up bottoming out (or better yet, hopefully they rebound and their “bottom” long term is a higher number than where they are now).


----------



## Gh0stFace

Didn't this whole thing start because Dave made a bet no one could fill a 10,000 seat building?


----------



## The Wood

ClintDagger said:


> Who knows? It’s certainly possible he’s being fed BS but it’s very possible he’s plugged in as well given how tight he is with the brain trust at AEW. Meltzer has been a big cheerleader for AEW and hearing him say the demo number is concerning was surprising to me. He did say that .32 wasn’t a bad number, but that they really need a .40; my guess is he’s basing all of this on potential future tv deals. What really matters is where they end up bottoming out (or better yet, hopefully they rebound and their “bottom” long term is a higher number than where they are now).


I’m starting to feel the blind optimism wearing off. Alvarez has been calling them out more and more on shitty content too. The spin might soon start to slow.


----------



## Gh0stFace

TNT says next AEW is on a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL... I hope they're right.


----------



## SPCDRI

Gh0stFace said:


> TNT says next AEW is on a WHOLE OTHER LEVEL... I hope they're right.


8 total viewership wins and 10 men, women and people aged 18-49 and males 12-34 and people 25-54 victories in a row, 10 WEEKS OUT OF 10, against WWE, 
on a smaller cable network, for half a million a show. That's a whole 'nother level for TNT. 

The stuff they used to air on Wednesday was a bunch of syndication run sitcoms and old movies that wouldn't do half a million viewers or crack top 50 in men, women and people 18-49 and 25-54.
I think being in top 10 for people 18-49 for 9 weeks out of 10 and actually occasionally outdrawing NBA games is a whole 'nother level. 
I feel like TNT is happy with the performance so far. Can they keep it up? Maybe, maybe not, but these first 10 weeks are great for AEW.

I honestly didn't think they'd be doing this well. I didn't think 800,000 viewers and top 10 with 18-49, basically NBA game numbers, would have potential to shake out to be AEW's BASELINE PERFOMANCE. That is WILD to think about!

Keep in mind how so many people had expectations that the show would do 500,000 or 600,000 viewers and TNT would be happy with that. Their worst show did 660,000/top 15 with people 18-49.
Their worst show! Lots of people predicted a number like that would be one of their best numbers after the debut, and that is their WORST.


----------



## rbl85

In the end of january NXT will stop with the overrun because Miz and Mrs season 2 is going to be right after NXT.


----------



## ClintDagger

SPCDRI said:


> 8 total viewership wins and 10 men, women and people aged 18-49 and males 12-34 and people 25-54 victories in a row, 10 WEEKS OUT OF 10, against WWE,
> on a smaller cable network, for half a million a show. That's a whole 'nother level for TNT.


TNT and USA are virtually in the same number of homes. Like 82% each. So size of network is not a factor. As far as viewership goes, USA does slightly better in prime time and TNT does slightly better during the day and weekends. So all of that is a wash.

And the above is based on no AEW on Wednesday’s for TNT and SD on Tuesday instead of NXT on Wednesdays for USA. Meaning, the next time those stats come out TNT may actually be the overall stronger network.


----------



## Trivette

If I still had cable (no way I'm ever going back) I'd be watching AEW every week without fail. As is I catch clips on Youtube and of course AEW Dark. A large chuck of viewers have cut the cord and are never coming back.


----------



## Jonhern

Fringe said:


> If I still had cable (no way I'm ever going back) I'd be watching AEW every week without fail. As is I catch clips on Youtube and of course AEW Dark. A large chuck of viewers have cut the cord and are never coming back.


You should try sling, it works well for me. both of the $25 tiers have TNT.


----------



## AEWMoxley

The first hour, especially the first 30-40 or so minutes, which had Moxley, Jericho, and MJF, I expect will do really good numbers. But once again, the weakness of the rest of the roster will be exposed after that. The main event had literally no star power.


----------



## Corey

I gotta say, I'm really disappointed and annoyed they chose Chicago for the Revolution PPV. There's simply too much Chicago at this point imo. They already have a designated yearly PPV and yearly Dynamite so I just don't get it.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

I'll be a pessimist and say that NXT wins the week, No real reason except I always expect the worst.


----------



## rbl85

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> I'll be a pessimist and say that NXT wins the week, No real reason except I always expect the worst.


Well if you always expect the worse you can only be pleasantly surprised.


----------



## RiverFenix

Given last week was within 6000 viewers it could go either way and not mean anything. Both will be in the same ball park as last week.


----------



## Taroostyles

AEW will definitely take the 1st hour. Garza and Rush was good but no one is watching them over Jericho, Moxley, Cody, and MJF. Everything from the women's match on could be a toss up but I thought the NXT show had a great start and finish but the middle was weak.


----------



## Jonhern

Corey said:


> I gotta say, I'm really disappointed and annoyed they chose Chicago for the Revolution PPV. There's simply too much Chicago at this point imo. They already have a designated yearly PPV and yearly Dynamite so I just don't get it.


Feel the same, was planning to go to the next PPV but I am not spending money and vacation time to go to Chicago in Winter. They are going to wear out that market and traveling fans might pass since they might not want to keep going to the same city.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

Have a friend in the know at WWE and he told me they have prelim numbers and NXT is at or near 1 million and won viewers and demo (didn't give me a number) and AEW had under 800 and a .30 demo. He is right most times but he has been wrong on AEW some (guaranteed me that NXT was beating AEW in week 1 and 2). He has been right the past few weeks about NXT tightening up the demo rating. I sure as hell hope he is wrong.


----------



## A PG Attitude

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Have a friend in the know at WWE and he told me they have prelim numbers and NXT is at or near 1 million and won viewers and demo (didn't give me a number) and AEW had under 800 and a .30 demo. He is right most times but he has been wrong on AEW some (guaranteed me that NXT was beating AEW in week 1 and 2). He has been right the past few weeks about NXT tightening up the demo rating. I sure as hell hope he is wrong.


I would be extremely surprised if NXT has a million viewers.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Corey said:


> I gotta say, I'm really disappointed and annoyed they chose Chicago for the Revolution PPV. There's simply too much Chicago at this point imo. They already have a designated yearly PPV and yearly Dynamite so I just don't get it.


This’ll be a ‘fyter fest’ like one - it ties into an event

event just happens to be in Chi town


----------



## RainmakerV2

CMPunkRock316 said:


> Have a friend in the know at WWE and he told me they have prelim numbers and NXT is at or near 1 million and won viewers and demo (didn't give me a number) and AEW had under 800 and a .30 demo. He is right most times but he has been wrong on AEW some (guaranteed me that NXT was beating AEW in week 1 and 2). He has been right the past few weeks about NXT tightening up the demo rating. I sure as hell hope he is wrong.



That would be quite surprising.


----------



## RiverFenix

^The event is an annual event in Chicago.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> ^The event is an annual event in Chicago.


All Out in Oct is the annual Chicago event - at the Sears centre

this is in the same venue as the c2e2 comic book thing - even if its annual, i’m sure it is not much more prestigious than fyter fest

..... but i might be wrong, but i don’t think so


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> All Out in Oct is the annual Chicago event - at the Sears centre
> 
> this is in the same venue as the c2e2 comic book thing - even if its annual, i’m sure it is not much more prestigious than fyter fest
> 
> ..... but i might be wrong, but i don’t think so


If they announce another PPV for the winter then maybe, but if its the only PPV and not some free thing on BR Live then it's a major one, they are only doing 4 a year, while All Out may become the marque event they are all going to be important because there are so few.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> If they announce another PPV for the winter then maybe, but if its the only PPV and not some free thing on BR Live then it's a major one, they are only doing 4 a year, while All Out may become the marque event they are all going to be important because there are so few.


Fair points


----------



## Ace

5 mins till ratings?


----------



## Ace

Disappointing

AEW: 778K (0.28 18-49) 
NXT: 778K (0.24 18-49)


----------



## Jonhern

AEW: 778K (0.28 18-49) / NXT: 778K (0.24 18-49)


----------



## NathanMayberry

Its a tie!


----------



## Ace

NathanMayberry said:


> Its a tie!


 NXT would have lost without the overrun.


----------



## TripleG

Technically, AEW gets the, uh, "Tie Breaker" by winning the demo.

EDIT: Looks like a lot of people were watching news shows last night. Must be the Impeachment hearings. 

Fucking Politics, lol.


----------



## RiverFenix

Masked Singer on it's special night?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Ace said:


> NXT would have lost without the overrun.


AEW would have won if they had a better show.


----------



## DOTL

Ace said:


> Disappointing
> 
> AEW: 778K (0.28 18-49)
> NXT: 778K (0.24 18-49)


Not to me. NXT had a stacked card and still lost the demo.


----------



## Ace

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW would have won if they had a better show.


 AEW would have won if they had a longer show.


----------



## The XL 2

It's only downhill from here. Cody, Khan, and the Bucks should have put together a real roster and a plan as opposed to getting their friends, most who have no business on a national promotion, hired to 6 figure deals. NXT isn't doing much better, but they were getting their asses kicked and have basically caught up. It's a shame, it really looked like AEW could have been the closest thing to WCW since it went down, but really, it's not even close to as big as peak TNA or peak ECW were.


----------



## AEWMoxley

What did everyone expect? The show was great for the first 30-40 minutes with the Inner Circle/Moxley angle and MJF promo, and then sucked from there on out. Weak main event, too.


----------



## RapShepard

Don't usually do semantics, but AEW was probably hurt by TNT not being available via Spectrum for the first 45 minutes to an hour of the show.


----------



## bdon

Given the announced card, how is this disappointing? They seem to have settled into the 800-850k range, so they missed the mark by 22k in a week they clearly didn’t put their best foot forward. Meanwhile, over at NXT, they had their announced Lio Rush match, and they still did the same as Dynamite.

Both shows are doing well, and that’s all that matters. Wednesday remains the best night for wrestling. As a returning fan from a nearly 2 decade hiatus, I’m just happy to see Vince’s shit shows being clowned and for fans on either side of the coin to have TWO options for good pro wrestling.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Ace said:


> NXT would have lost without the overrun.


It's true. AEW had more total viewers then NXT got a bump from the overrun.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Ace said:


> AEW would have won if they had a longer show.


How much does AEW spend on advertising? Placing a Jericho billboard front and center in Time Square doesn't seem like it would be cheap.


----------



## bdon

RapShepard said:


> Don't usually do semantics, but AEW was probably hurt by TNT not being available via Spectrum for the first 45 minutes to an hour of the show.


Wait. What happened with Spectrum?


----------



## Ace

bdon said:


> Given the announced card, how is this disappointing? They seem to have settled into the 800-850k range, so they missed the mark by 22k in a week they clearly didn’t put their best foot forward. Meanwhile, over at NXT, they had their announced Lio Rush match, and they still did the same as Dynamite.
> 
> Both shows are doing well, and that’s all that matters. Wednesday remains the best night for wrestling. As a returning fan from a nearly 2 decade hiatus, I’m just happy to see Vince’s shit shows being clowned and for fans on either side of the coin to have TWO options for good pro wrestling.


 The demo is also decreasing, they're into a real battle with NXT in terms of viewership and the demo when they were kicking NXT's ass a month back.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

AEW is now 11-0 vs NXT in the demo. The concerning part is that their demo is dropping towards NXT'S. .28 is def. one of their lowest demos.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Eh disappointing but the sky isn’t falling! Not bad for two months of shows

Once Mox gets the belt you’ll see a difference maker


----------



## Ace

THE MAN.THE MYTH.THE SHIV.THE END. said:


> AEW is now 11-0 vs NXT in the demo. The concerning part is that their demo is dropping towards NXT'S. .28 is def. one of their lowest demos.


 It's the weak roster, they need to either elevate and create stars or they got to sign some big names.

They desperately need a deal with NJPW in place, the likes of Okada, Naito, Tanahashi, etc. would help immensely in strengthening their roster and shows.


----------



## The XL 2

AEWMoxley said:


> What did everyone expect? The show was great for the first 30-40 minutes with the Inner Circle/Moxley angle and MJF promo, and then sucked from there on out. Weak main event, too.


The roster needs another top guy or 2 and badly lacks depth. Guys like Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Private Party, Jimmy Havoc, etc suck, they shouldn't be on a national roster or on prime time TV. The Bucks are a fun undercard sideshow act but they're not top guys either. The only real meat on the roster is Jericho, MJF, Moxley, and the Rhodes brothers. I dunno what the fuck they were thinking when they assembled that roster.


----------



## kingfrass44

RubberbandGoat said:


> Eh disappointing but the sky isn’t falling! Not bad for two months of shows


You say the same words and delude yourself
That is bad
They do not grow


----------



## RapShepard

bdon said:


> Wait. What happened with Spectrum?


TNT just wasn't available for some reason. It froze up during the ending of the movie that came on before Dynamite then was unavailable for the vast majority of the first hour. I had to watch on the Spectrum App instead of my TV.


----------



## V-Trigger

Ace said:


> It's the weak roster, they need to either elevate and create stars or they got to sign some big names.
> 
> They desperately need a deal with NJPW in place, the likes of Okada, Naito, Tanahashi, etc. would help immensely in strengthening their roster and shows.


New Japan draws 300.00 on AXSTV. That isn't gonna help. They need to keep elevating the likes of Darby/JB and others.


----------



## bdon

Ace said:


> The demo is also decreasing, they're into a real battle with NXT in terms of viewership and the demo when they were kicking NXT's ass a month back.


And NXT has 7 years of building these storylines, characters, and a WWE that monopolized the industry with a roster backing NXT to jumpstart them.

AEW being a startup at the top of the industry was never going to hit the ground running. You build a winning formula, not buy one.

Patience is a virtue.


----------



## RapShepard

Ace said:


> It's the weak roster, they need to either elevate and create stars or they got to sign some big names.
> 
> They desperately need a deal with NJPW in place, the likes of Okada, Naito, Tanahashi, etc. would help immensely in strengthening their roster and shows.


I can't see a NJPW deal mattering in the US.


----------



## The XL 2

AEW might wind up being the biggest flop since Pro Wrestling USA in the 80s. All this hype and a hot start only to fade into obscurity months in.


----------



## Ace

V-Trigger said:


> New Japan draws 300.00 on AXSTV. That isn't gonna help. They need to keep elevating the likes of Darby/JB and others.


 Even so, those guys are names known in the wrestling circles. Their quality will shine through and get people watching.

Do you remember how Okada-Omega I broke the internet and became the talk of pro wrestling for months.

That was one freaking match - I've never seen anything quite like it.

Those guys are names and strengthen a roster which has a several big names, nobodies and fodder.

Even someone like Juice could be real handy, heck imagine Jay White in AEW feuding with Cody or Omega.


----------



## V-Trigger

The XL 2 said:


> AEW might wind up being the biggest flop since Pro Wrestling USA in the 80s. All this hype and a hot start only to fade into obscurity months in.


Ban wave when?


----------



## bdon

The XL 2 said:


> The roster needs another top guy or 2 and badly lacks depth. Guys like Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Private Party, Jimmy Havoc, etc suck, they shouldn't be on a national roster or on prime time TV. The Bucks are a fun undercard sideshow act but they're not top guys either. The only real meat on the roster is Jericho, MJF, Moxley, and the Rhodes brothers. I dunno what the fuck they were thinking when they assembled that roster.


The fact that Kenny Omega continues to be “just another guy” that isn’t listed in posts like this is proof they’ve done themselves a disservice to the product.


----------



## rbl85

There is something that you must take into account :

Yes Jericho, Moxley are big wrestling stars but they're not role model like a Cena was.
It's hard now for a wrestler to be a role model for the young people.


----------



## fabi1982

DOTL said:


> Not to me. NXT had a stacked card and still lost the demo.


And what did AEW do? Every major star was on the show. Dont understand your comment honestly.


----------



## Swan-San

The XL 2 said:


> The roster needs another top guy or 2 and badly lacks depth. Guys like Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Private Party, Jimmy Havoc, etc suck, they shouldn't be on a national roster or on prime time TV. The Bucks are a fun undercard sideshow act but they're not top guys either. The only real meat on the roster is Jericho, MJF, Moxley, and the Rhodes brothers. I dunno what the fuck they were thinking when they assembled that roster.


making the elite EVPs was the nail in the coffin before it even got started. they're only going to do what got the success in the first place with the people they got success with. They're in their own indy bubble. I'm surprised Tony having been a fan for so long doesn't notice the difference between indy and what draws. Perhaps he's too in love with wrestling to the point nothing sucks to him.


----------



## shadows123

The XL 2 said:


> The roster needs another top guy or 2 and badly lacks depth. Guys like Marko Stunt, Joey Janella, Private Party, Jimmy Havoc, etc suck, they shouldn't be on a national roster or on prime time TV. The Bucks are a fun undercard sideshow act but they're not top guys either. The only real meat on the roster is Jericho, MJF, Moxley, and the Rhodes brothers. I dunno what the fuck they were thinking when they assembled that roster.


Its not like they passed on anyone. They did sign everyone available. Most of the others are tied up on long term WWE contracts unfortunately and the rest won't matter anyway unless and until they build them up like they are doing with MJF

@Ace I think a deal with NJPW is nice but doubt it makes any difference. They are mostly unknown to the US audience. The only way this war ends well for either of them is if NXT moves to another time slot or AEW tries their hand Mondays.. Otherwise 3 hours of Raw drains most of the target audience for these shows.


----------



## The XL 2

V-Trigger said:


> Ban wave when?


Whatever this means.


----------



## V-Trigger

So we are back to the "EVPS killed this company" even when they're proven draws if we go by quarter hours huh?.


----------



## The XL 2

Swan-San said:


> making the elite EVPs was the nail in the coffin before it even got started. they're only going to do what got the success in the first place with the people they got success with. They're in their own indy bubble. I'm surprised Tony having been a fan for so long doesn't notice the difference between indy and what draws. Perhaps he's too in love with wrestling to the point nothing sucks to him.


When I heard the Bucks were one of the ones that had Khans ear and were involved in the building of this company, I should have known they were fucked from the start, against my better judgement I was optimistic.


----------



## RapShepard

V-Trigger said:


> So we are back to the "EVPS killed this company" even when they're proven draws if we go by quarter hours huh?.


I think the point is probably along the lines of having active wrestlers in prominent roles isn't helping. The point of them perhaps not being able to look beyond what works for their specific fan base might have some merit if you think about it.


----------



## Whoanma

In every AEW thread, there’s always something like...


----------



## shadows123

bdon said:


> The fact that Kenny Omega continues to be “just another guy” that isn’t listed in posts like this is proof they’ve done themselves a disservice to the product.


Man I like Kenny Omega too, not a lot but still and i get it you like him seen by your posts on various topics.. But you talk as if AEW would bring in 2 million just by making him champion ?


----------



## DOTL

fabi1982 said:


> And what did AEW do? Every major star was on the show. Dont understand your comment honestly.


I don't understand yours.

If both used their big guns then it makes sense they'd split the audience with the bias being towards the demo's natural preference.

That's exactly what happened.


----------



## The XL 2

shadows123 said:


> Its not like they passed on anyone. They did sign everyone available. Most of the others are tied up on long term WWE contracts unfortunately and the rest won't matter anyway unless and until they build them up like they are doing with MJF
> 
> @Ace I think a deal with NJPW is nice but doubt it makes any difference. They are mostly unknown to the US audience. The only way this war ends well for either of them is if NXT moves to another time slot or AEW tries their hand Mondays.. Otherwise 3 hours of Raw drains most of the target audience for these shows.


There are guys that are currently in NWA and MLW that I have to think they could have signed or at least struck up a working relationship with. Hammerstone and Holiday, Eli Drake, Fatu, Tom Lawlor, etc. They didn't come prepared for a national product.


----------



## kingfrass44

Ace said:


> Even so, those guys are names known in the wrestling circles. Their quality will shine through and get people watching.
> 
> Do you remember how Okada-Omega I broke the internet and became the talk of pro wrestling for months.
> 
> That was one freaking match - I've never seen anything quite like it.


You are deceiving yourself
names known in the Smark and will not get people watching


----------



## shadows123

The XL 2 said:


> There are guys that are currently in NWA and MLW that I have to think they could have signed or at least struck up a working relationship with. Hammerstone and Holiday, Eli Drake, Fatu, Tom Lawlor, etc. They didn't come prepared for a national product.


And the ratings would be exactly the same with all of the guys you mentioned...

Plus even now AEW continues to be a work in progress..Its a much much better written show than Raw and Smackdown...Sure its goofy as hell.. And i would give it some time, let them build some stars..Right now there is no big name available in the market they could get..So they have to work with what they have and build them... And going against the financial might of the wwe is quite a tough road ahead for them as well..But i would not be panicking unless its still at this ball park or in a downward trend in a year...


----------



## rbl85

You want a big ratings especially with the young demos ?
Bring a Logan Paul, KSI on the show and i can assure you that AEW will do well over a million.


----------



## Derek30

If they are still in the same ballpark in terms of viewership or lower in a years time, I'll be worried. Perhaps they get a big name in that time frame which peaks the interest of the wrestling audience or they cultivate a big star or two on their own. Perhaps their storylines will hook viewers as they establish and showcase their roster. It's still very, very early


----------



## ellthom

A draw... how do we do sudden death in this case?


----------



## The XL 2

shadows123 said:


> And the ratings would be exactly the same with all of the guys you mentioned...
> 
> Plus even now AEW continues to be a work in progress..Its a much much better written show than Raw and Smackdown...Sure its goofy as hell.. And i would give it some time, let them build some stars..Right now there is no big name available in the market they could get..So they have to work with what they have and build them...


That's conjecture. Having a bunch of guys who look like wrestlers, can work and can talk are going to do a lot better than the sideshow goofballs that dominate AEWs undercard.


----------



## kingfrass44

Derek30 said:


> If they are still in the same ballpark in terms of viewership or lower in a years time, I'll be worried. Perhaps they get a big name in that time frame which peaks the interest of the wrestling audience or they cultivate a big star or two on their own. Perhaps their storylines will hook viewers as they establish and showcase their roster. It's still very, very early


They will not make stars Because there are people who are not a place in the national TV
And there They are geek and not bigger than life


----------



## fabi1982

DOTL said:


> I don't understand yours.
> 
> If both used their big guns then it makes sense they'd split the audience with the bias being towards the demo's natural preference.
> 
> That's exactly what happened.


But the thing is they beat them easily couple of weeks ago, when NXT also had „stacked“ cards. NXT remains their fanbase but AEW doesnt. That basically is my point. And AEW going from a 0.4 demo to a 0.28 demo is nothing to be happy about.


----------



## rbl85

Now to be a draw the wrestlers needs to be way more than a simple wrestler.

They need someone who's a star outside of wrestling.


----------



## llj

Pro wrestling is a dying genre

Numbers for WWE and AEW have been nothing short of underwhelming lately


----------



## V-Trigger

fabi1982 said:


> But the thing is they beat them easily couple of weeks ago, when NXT also had „stacked“ cards. NXT remains their fanbase but AEW doesnt. That basically is my point. And AEW going from a 0.4 demo to a 0.28 demo is nothing to be happy about.


NXT started at 1.1m. What are you talking about.


----------



## Swan-San

I also don't understand the "it's still early days" arguement. 

They had ultra hype and interest, and have lost it all to the point that now it's just us hardcore fans that care.

The elite aren't all of a sudden going to learn how to book a show, you either have the talent to write a novel or you don't, practice isn't going to make you more creative.

So unless they change who's booking, nothing will change, and unless they change who's in charge of talent hiring, nothing will change. Time won't make them more skilled, it's not an experience thing more than it's just a pure talent thing. Can someone explain why i'm wrong? I see this time argument too much.


----------



## The XL 2

People are talking about making stars......who on the roster has the potential to get over other than MJF? You could move heaven and earth and no one is making a star out of Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Jimmy Havok, Joey Janela, Orange Cassidy, Jack Evans, Chuck Taylor, etc. I mean.....what the fuck is this roster? Were Khan and Cody trolling when they came up with this shit? This whole thing is so disappointing.


----------



## rbl85

Swan-San said:


> I also don't understand the "it's still early days" arguement.
> 
> They had ultra hype and interest, and have lost it all to the point that now it's just us hardcore fans that care.


Only hardcore fans care about wrestling in 2019/2020.


----------



## fabi1982

V-Trigger said:


> NXT started at 1.1m. What are you talking about.


With no competition. They were around 800k when AEW first went head to head. And it also even with the 1.1m had a demo below 0.3 iirc.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

All good ?‍♂


----------



## V-Trigger

Swan-San said:


> I also don't understand the "it's still early days" arguement.
> 
> They had ultra hype and interest, and have lost it all to the point that now it's just us hardcore fans that care.
> 
> The elite aren't all of a sudden going to learn how to book a show, you either have the talent to write a novel or you don't, practice isn't going to make you more creative.
> 
> So unless they change who's booking, nothing will change, and unless they change who's in charge of talent hiring, nothing will change. Time won't make them more skilled, it's not an experience thing more than it's just a pure talent thing. Can someone explain why i'm wrong? I see this time argument too much.


WWE has 30 years of monopoly and Gazillion dollars yet they can't beat a startup company on the key demo since the "War" started. Get a clue.


----------



## Alright_Mate

Ratings will be up and down like a yo-yo between 700-900k all depending on the strength of their cards.

Not surprised last night had a slight dip as the card was bang average.


----------



## RainmakerV2

For starters, get the old Asian chick with a moustache off TV. Much less wrestling in 15 minute matches. Can anyone explain why they are still doing this? Its fucking mind boggling. 

No one knows or cares who Kip Sabian is and as cool as they try to make Spears, hes still Tye Dillinger with Tully Blanchard (who doesnt fit what they do at all. Janela tying him up was a fucking disgrace, and no one 18-34 knows who Tully is.)

And again, you're seeing the law of diminishing returns on these hardcore matches and their style of wrestling in general. Theres only so many times you can go through a table and flip and go through a stage and flip and hit someone with a chair and flip, before it just becomes meh.


----------



## shadows123

Swan-San said:


> I also don't understand the "it's still early days" arguement.
> 
> They had ultra hype and interest, and have lost it all to the point that now it's just us hardcore fans that care.
> 
> The elite aren't all of a sudden going to learn how to book a show, you either have the talent to write a novel or you don't, practice isn't going to make you more creative.
> 
> So unless they change who's booking, nothing will change, and unless they change who's in charge of talent hiring, nothing will change. Time won't make them more skilled, it's not an experience thing more than it's just a pure talent thing. Can someone explain why i'm wrong? I see this time argument too much.


First, Only hardcore fans are propping up all of the Wrestling shows... No one else cares a shit anymore thanks to WWE's years of driving people away with shoving Triple H, then Cena, then Roman.. Plus WWE dominates the 50+ segment of the demo across all its shows ?

Second, I think the booking isn't that bad so to speak..Its goofy and there are mistakes here and there.. But hell, establishes bookers and WWE's so called creative (including Steph from the past) committed huge blunders than this. I don't see what's a reasonable solution here either unless you're one of those "Vince Russo will save wrestling" guys 

Third, for me, I say time only because largely the audience may not know most of the personnel. So building them up is going to take time and patience, hence putting the title on Jericho while building others too.


----------



## ClintDagger

This trend has to be concerning now. Particularly the key demo.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Swan-San said:


> I also don't understand the "it's still early days" arguement.
> 
> They had ultra hype and interest, and have lost it all to the point that now it's just us hardcore fans that care.
> 
> The elite aren't all of a sudden going to learn how to book a show, you either have the talent to write a novel or you don't, practice isn't going to make you more creative.
> 
> So unless they change who's booking, nothing will change, and unless they change who's in charge of talent hiring, nothing will change. Time won't make them more skilled, it's not an experience thing more than it's just a pure talent thing. Can someone explain why i'm wrong? I see this time argument too much.


People say it's early days when others say that AEW aren't growing. Which is a good reason. Growth doesn't happen overnight.

But yes the "early days" argument does not work when the product actually is losing viewers consistently. A product, regardless of new or old, shouldn't lose viewers. Consistency should be key.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Some people itt are very obviously stuck in the 90's, not realising that pro wrestling in almost 2020 is a very niche product and for what it is, both show draw very good numbers on consistent basis. No, WWE or NJPW guys won't make difference. No, there won't be millions of viewers watching this stuff. No, pro wrestling won't suddenly become mainstream again. Deal with it and enjoy the show.


----------



## The XL 2

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Some people itt are very obviously stuck in the 90's, not realising that pro wrestling in almost 2020 is a very niche product and for what it is, both show draw very good numbers on consistent basis. No, WWE or NJPW guys won't make difference. No, there won't be millions of viewers watching this stuff. No, pro wrestling won't suddenly become mainstream again. Deal with it and enjoy the show.


Pro wrestling is extremely niche now because of the guys that both WWE and AEW are presenting and pushing on televison. AEW would have had a shot if they tried to put together a roster of actual professional wrestlers.


----------



## Derek30

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Some people itt are very obviously stuck in the 90's, not realising that pro wrestling in almost 2020 is a very niche product and for what it is, both show draw very good numbers on consistent basis. No, WWE or NJPW guys won't make difference. No, there won't be millions of viewers watching this stuff. No, pro wrestling won't suddenly become mainstream again. Deal with it and enjoy the show.


I'm ok with this too. I really enjoy AEW for what it is. Will absolutely be in attendance if they ever cross the border into Canada


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Some people itt are very obviously stuck in the 90's, not realising that pro wrestling in almost 2020 is a very niche product and for what it is, both show draw very good numbers on consistent basis. No, WWE or NJPW guys won't make difference. No, there won't be millions of viewers watching this stuff. No, pro wrestling won't suddenly become mainstream again. Deal with it and enjoy the show.


Pro wrestling died when kayfabe died. IMO the current style of product is not going to ever become mainstream again.

and LifeIn made a good point a few days ago - is ANYTHING "mainstream" anymore? With the internet, your taste or behaviour can become anything. Nobody is forced to watch TV anymore. Back in the 90s, was there anything else to watch?


----------



## RainmakerV2

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Some people itt are very obviously stuck in the 90's, not realising that pro wrestling in almost 2020 is a very niche product and for what it is, both show draw very good numbers on consistent basis. No, WWE or NJPW guys won't make difference. No, there won't be millions of viewers watching this stuff. No, pro wrestling won't suddenly become mainstream again. Deal with it and enjoy the show.



They've lost half their viewers from their premiere and their key demo is dwindling. No ones saying they're going out of business but the trend isn't good and theres some obvious reasons why that they don't seem to wanna try to fix.


----------



## kingfrass44

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Some people itt are very obviously stuck in the 90's, not realising that pro wrestling in almost 2020 is a very niche product and for what it is, both show draw very good numbers on consistent basis. No, WWE or NJPW guys won't make difference. No, there won't be millions of viewers watching this stuff. No, pro wrestling won't suddenly become mainstream again. Deal with it and enjoy the show.


If khan doesn't make a profit, he'll pull the plug.


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> For starters, get the old Asian chick with a moustache off TV. Much less wrestling in 15 minute matches. Can anyone explain why they are still doing this? Its fucking mind boggling.
> 
> No one knows or cares who Kip Sabian is and as cool as they try to make Spears, hes still Tye Dillinger with Tully Blanchard (who doesnt fit what they do at all. Janela tying him up was a fucking disgrace, and no one 18-34 knows who Tully is.)
> 
> And again, you're seeing the law of diminishing returns on these hardcore matches and their style of wrestling in general. Theres only so many times you can go through a table and flip and go through a stage and flip and hit someone with a chair and flip, before it just becomes meh.


the fuck are you talking bout? 

They won 18-34. The 50 year olds are watching the overrun. Aside from that NXT has 2 star power guys in Keith Lee and Finn Balor. 

They just started story wit Mox and Jericho. The style of match aint killing them, the lack of stars is.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

kingfrass44 said:


> If khan doesn't make a profit, he'll pull the plug.


he didn't pull the plug on fullham when it lost over 10 million


----------



## DOTL

fabi1982 said:


> But the thing is they beat them easily couple of weeks ago, when NXT also had „stacked“ cards. NXT remains their fanbase but AEW doesnt. That basically is my point. And AEW going from a 0.4 demo to a 0.28 demo is nothing to be happy about.


Your grievance would be justified if NXT was actually consistently winning. NXT got a boost from a *major* WWE ppv and is still struggling to overcome AEW. Closer numbers is just the fallout from that exposure; exposure designed for WWE to be WINNING, not just tying, might I add.

My point here is that even after all of the guns put behind NXT to put over their roster, AEW's program is still strong enough to draw on the same level, or slightly better in the demo. This is a new company mind you with a green, undeveloped Women's division, no midcard belt and no runover, going head to head against the full force of the WWE marketing machine and beating them at their own game.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

businessmen do not pull plugs on the first signs of trouble. and honestly how do you know aew is having trouble

seriously.


----------



## bdon

shadows123 said:


> Man I like Kenny Omega too, not a lot but still and i get it you like him seen by your posts on various topics.. But you talk as if AEW would bring in 2 million just by making him champion ?


Not at all about him being the champion. I like the idea of long form story-telling and him securing the title in a year, year and a half.

My point of contention is that he, Kahn, the other EVPs, Jericho, etc do a disservice to themselves every time they just send Kenny out to wrestle a match and be done with his story. The American audience wants a good storyline, a reason or motivation behind the matches. And the same goes for Pac and Page.

For instance, on Dark the other night they mentioned that Kip Sabian is obsessed with beating The Elite. Then you have him in tag action with Spears against Kenny and Page.

What is Sabian’s motivation and issue with The Elite? What is Kenny and Page’s reason for teaming up to face these two?

The casual viewer, aka the target demographic, has no clue about these things, has no clue who Sabian is, next to nothing in terms of Spears and his lack of personality, but they expect that viewer to stay tuned for a long, heavy work rate match? Just to muddy the house waters with a Janela appearance and a hint of Page going rogue?

These guys are great story-tellers. They have proven that via the BTE stuff that got them over in the first place, and other parts of the roster. For Page, Pac, and Kenny (specifically Kenny whose matches with Jericho and Okada are the most important pieces to all of this becoming a thing), they just drift through shows, rudderless.

They need to do more and stop thinking that the average fan turning on AEW is going to be enthralled with watching these three simply perform, which they absolutely do very well in-ring.

Cody, Jericho, MJF, and Mox shouldn’t be the only guys allowed to cut promos to sell their story.

And before anyone says it, yes Kenny is in charge of his own creative, but they make decisions as a collective. Someone needs to notice how underutilized 3 of their top 7-8 guys are currently.


----------



## K4L318

kingfrass44 said:


> If khan doesn't make a profit, he'll pull the plug.


dont pretend to be a business man on a forum for shits and giggles either.


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> the fuck are you talking bout?
> 
> They won 18-34. The 50 year olds are watching the overrun. Aside from that NXT has 2 star power guys in Keith Lee and Finn Balor.
> 
> They just started story wit Mox and Jericho. The style of match aint killing them, the lack of stars is.



So what? They beat WWEs third brand and barely. And its not the lack of stars thats killing them, its trying to get too many of their buddies who will never draw on the show.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> *They've lost half their viewers from their premiere* and their key demo is dwindling. No ones saying they're going out of business but the trend isn't good and theres some obvious reasons why that they don't seem to wanna try to fix.


Because a good part of those people decided to watch the first show like some people watch the first episode of any new tv show : just because of the promotion that was made for it and TNT heavily promoted AEW
I can assure you that a lot of people who watched the first episode knew that they would not continue to watch the following épisodes because those people never watch wrestling before


----------



## DOTL

The XL 2 said:


> People are talking about making stars......who on the roster has the potential to get over other than MJF? You could move heaven and earth and no one is making a star out of Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Jimmy Havok, Joey Janela, Orange Cassidy, Jack Evans, Chuck Taylor, etc. I mean.....what the fuck is this roster? Were Khan and Cody trolling when they came up with this shit? This whole thing is so disappointing.


Orange Cassidy is over as hell and doesn't even have a storyline yet.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> So what? They beat WWEs third brand and barely. And its not the lack of stars thats killing them, its trying to get too many of their buddies who will never draw on the show.


So what, only Moxley and Jericho should appear ?


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> So what? They beat WWEs third brand and barely. And its not the lack of stars thats killing them, its trying to get too many of their buddies who will never draw on the show.


ya mean like Baron Corbin who would be shit if they hadnt run him through Dean Ambrose, Ziggler, AJ Styles, John Cena, Roman Reigns. 

Bruh Kenny Omega is a star out of the title picture. Their top story on TV was Kenny Omega and Jon Moxley. They making new stories wit new guys out of the indies. Aint no one out there to sign other than Ryback.


----------



## shadows123

rbl85 said:


> So what, only Moxley and Jericho should appear ?


I know right..A lot of people seem to think that they cheapened out by hiring a bunch of jabronis..They should've hired Roman Reigns and Seth Rollins and viewership would've sky rocketed damn it ?


----------



## kingfrass44

DOTL said:


> Orange Cassidy is over as hell and doesn't even have a storyline yet.


You mean Orange Cassidy is Only over smark
Cheers smark Doesn't mean a star.
Smark They're fooling themselves.
Everybody knows Orange Cassidy idiot except for smark


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> So what, only Moxley and Jericho should appear ?


The show should be based around Mox, Jericho and the inner circle, Omega, Pac, Hangman, Cody and MJF. They need to be on TV every week, with storylines, every week. If guys like Shawn Spears and Joey Janela and Jimmy Havoc need to rassle for some bullshit rankings system, make dark 2 hours and give the live audience their moneys worth.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show should be based around Mox, Jericho and the inner circle, Omega, Pac, Hangman, Cody and MJF. They need to be on TV every week, with storylines, every week. If guys like Shawn Spears and Joey Janela and Jimmy Havoc need to rassle for some bullshit rankings system, make dark 2 hours and give the live audience their moneys worth.


Can you tell me who was on the show that did the worst rating ?

Edit : i'm going to help you : Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Cody, PAC, MJF, Page


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> The show should be based around Mox, Jericho and the inner circle, Omega, Pac, Hangman, Cody and MJF. They need to be on TV every week, with storylines, every week. If guys like Shawn Spears and Joey Janela and Jimmy Havoc need to rassle for some bullshit rankings system, make dark 2 hours and give the live audience their moneys worth.


then just say that instead of coming here and talking some bullshit like ya understand what draws in wrestling.

the last thing this forum needs is some dumb shit mouthin off bout a third hour on Raw, when that is a show wit 50 years of audience experience.


----------



## fabi1982

DOTL said:


> Your grievance would be justified if NXT was actually consistently winning. NXT got a boost from a *major* WWE ppv and is still struggling to overcome AEW. Closer numbers is just the fallout from that exposure; exposure designed for WWE to be WINNING, not just tying, might I add.
> 
> My point here is that even after all of the guns put behind NXT to put over their roster, AEW's program is still strong enough to draw on the same level, or slightly better in the demo. This is a new company mind you with a green, undeveloped Women's division, no midcard belt and no runover, going head to head against the full force of the WWE marketing machine and beating them at their own game.


This argument was valid like 2 weeks ago. The last two shows had no „main roster star power“. And your overdramatic points how WWE is pushing NXT, I never heard anyone on RAW or SD the last week mentioning NXT at all. They put on interesting shows and this keeps people watching, nothing more nothing less.

And doesnt AEW is putting out „the guns“ with rushing that Mox/Jericho feud? MJF turn like half a year too early?

on the one hand NXT is getting all the power from WWE in the other hand „only stars NXT has is Balor and Keith Lee“. You AEW guys need to make up your mind what it is. And then again we are talking about AEW beating a show were everyone in here say „only the old WWE lamers watch“.

And dont tell me TNT tweeting stuff like „this episode will blow everything else away“ not being some big gun stuff?!


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> then just say that instead of coming here and talking some bullshit like ya understand what draws in wrestling.
> 
> the last thing this forum needs is some dumb shit mouthin off bout a third hour on Raw, when that is a show wit 50 years of audience experience.


I have no earthly idea what in the fuck you're talking about.


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> I have no earthly idea what in the fuck you're talking about.


you have no earthly idea what the fuck you are talking bout either.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> you have no earthly idea what the fuck you are talking bout either.


We don't have any idea about what we're talking about.


----------



## DOTL

kingfrass44 said:


> You mean Orange Cassidy is Only over smark
> Cheers smark Doesn't mean a star.
> Smark They're fooling themselves.
> Everybody knows Orange Cassidy idiot except for smark


Are you writing poetry?

Anyway, getting over with smarks doesn't preclude success. Most of the biggest wrestlers were over with smarks first. Daniel Bryan and Punk are good examples.

Having a character who's over at all is a good start. Especially if they haven't even given him a story yet.


----------



## rbl85

Now maybe something that AEW could do is when Moxley open the show then they have to announce it.

I personally don't really like it because i like the surprise but that would probably help the rating of the first hour.


----------



## K4L318

fabi1982 said:


> This argument was valid like 2 weeks ago. The last two shows had no „main roster star power“. And your overdramatic points how WWE is pushing NXT, I never heard anyone on RAW or SD the last week mentioning NXT at all. They put on interesting shows and this keeps people watching, nothing more nothing less.
> 
> And doesnt AEW is putting out „the guns“ with rushing that Mox/Jericho feud? MJF turn like half a year too early?
> 
> on the one hand NXT is getting all the power from WWE in the other hand „only stars NXT has is Balor and Keith Lee“. You AEW guys need to make up your mind what it is. And then again we are talking about AEW beating a show were everyone in here say „only the old WWE lamers watch“.
> 
> And dont tell me TNT tweeting stuff like „this episode will blow everything else away“ not being some big gun stuff?!


none of that shit makes any sense, the NXT roster had a PPV wit the main roster and the best it did was what 700K this week and the top demo was age 50. How arent the WWE lames watching it not sensible?


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> This argument was valid like 2 weeks ago. The last two shows had no „main roster star power“. And your overdramatic points how WWE is pushing NXT, I never heard anyone on RAW or SD the last week mentioning NXT at all. They put on interesting shows and this keeps people watching, nothing more nothing less.
> 
> And doesnt AEW is putting out „the guns“ with rushing that Mox/Jericho feud? MJF turn like half a year too early?
> 
> on the one hand NXT is getting all the power from WWE in the other hand „only stars NXT has is Balor and Keith Lee“. You AEW guys need to make up your mind what it is. And then again we are talking about AEW beating a show were everyone in here say „only the old WWE lamers watch“.
> 
> And dont tell me TNT tweeting stuff like „this episode will blow everything else away“ not being some big gun stuff?!


NXT has star power, even if they perform in front of 400 people. They have7 years of The Network to build an established audience to carry with them to USA. They have a parent company in WWE, with a roster of Raw and Smackdown stars that have held a monopoly on television wrestling for two decades, that is willing to pop in and give them the rub.

AEW does not have these advantages, so they use their upper card guys to begin ESTABLISHING a fan base for the Darby Allin’s, the Jungle Boy’s, the Janela’s, the Sabian’s, etc.

If NXT goes straight to USA network in 2012-2013 without WWE their to give them the rub, would they have any success? No. It takes time to build the fan base for the lesser known guys.


----------



## K4L318

rbl85 said:


> We don't have any idea about what we're talking about.


major ratings are drawn wit stories and recognizable people speaking on a mic, AEW doesnt have that. Major ratings are drawn wit attractive women who can speak on a mic, AEW doesnt have that. You watching year 1 and talkin nonsense.


----------



## rbl85

K4L318 said:


> major ratings are drawn wit stories and recognizable people speaking on a mic, AEW doesnt have that. Major ratings are drawn wit attractive women who can speak on a mic, AEW doesnt have that. You watching year 1 and talkin nonsense.


Why so aggressive ?

I said nothing.


----------



## fabi1982

K4L318 said:


> none of that shit makes any sense, the NXT roster had a PPV wit the main roster and the best it did was what 700K this week and the top demo was age 50. How arent the WWE lames watching it not sensible?


so how long do you guys want to milk this „came of a major ppv“? This was 3 weeks ago. And it did the same rating this week as AEW. The top demo is always 50+ for NXT.

but reading your post gives me the feeling, that you dont want to understand and just throw around some lame insults.


----------



## K4L318

fabi1982 said:


> so how long do you guys want to milk this „came of a major ppv“? This was 3 weeks ago. And it did the same rating this week as AEW. The top demo is always 50+ for NXT.
> 
> but reading your post gives me the feeling, that you dont want to understand and just throw around some lame insults.


nah its telling ya the reality of the show ya watching. Ya think there is a boom period and it aint there, ya think they got a loaded roster when it aint, until something catches the imagination of the viewer it aint poppin TV ratings.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> NXT has star power, even if they perform in front of 400 people. They have7 years of The Network to build an established audience to carry with them to USA. They have a parent company in WWE, with a roster of Raw and Smackdown stars that have held a monopoly on television wrestling for two decades, that is willing to pop in and give them the rub.
> 
> AEW does not have these advantages, so they use their upper card guys to begin ESTABLISHING a fan base for the Darby Allin’s, the Jungle Boy’s, the Janela’s, the Sabian’s, etc.
> 
> If NXT goes straight to USA network in 2012-2013 without WWE their to give them the rub, would they have any success? No. It takes time to build the fan base for the lesser known guys.


So whenever AEW does bad it will be that story? Doesnt that feel stupid after writing it several times? Sadly NXT doesnt show WWE Network numbers, would love to see the difference and how many of those 780k watched it on the network 2 years ago.

All I was saying is that it is worrying that they lose so much demo viewership, doesnt matter how NXT does and what they got shoved down their asses. Which indicates that they are clearly doing something wrong.


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> nah its telling ya the reality of the show ya watching. Ya think there is a boom period and it aint there, ya think they got a loaded roster when it aint, until something catches the imagination of the viewer it aint poppin TV ratings.


Who in here has said their roster is loaded or its a boom period? The fuck are you even on about?


----------



## fabi1982

K4L318 said:


> nah its telling ya the reality of the show ya watching. Ya think there is a boom period and it aint there, ya think they got a loaded roster when it aint, until something catches the imagination of the viewer it aint poppin TV ratings.


Ya dont have to tell me anything. Ya just posting stupid nonsense. Ya dont know if I think there will be a boom period. Ya have to go out and catch some fresh air, maybe ya brain will then better understand what ya reading?


----------



## K4L318

RainmakerV2 said:


> Who in here has said their roster is loaded or its a boom period? The fuck are you even on about?


that post aint wit you. 

you came wit some crap bout Raw's 3rd hour.


----------



## K4L318

fabi1982 said:


> Ya dont have to tell me anything. Ya just posting stupid nonsense. Ya dont know if I think there will be a boom period. Ya have to go out and catch some fresh air, maybe ya brain will then better understand what ya reading?


bruh ya posting on this forum more than me, I took a 4-5 year break. Fresh air?

be back later.


----------



## RainmakerV2

K4L318 said:


> that post aint wit you.
> 
> you came wit some crap bout Raw's 3rd hour.



What? Ive never said anything about RAWs third hour? And why are you typing in ebonics like its 2004? Is this some troll im biting into?


----------



## fabi1982

K4L318 said:


> bruh ya posting on this forum more than me, I took a 4-5 year break. Fresh air?
> 
> be back later.


I aint ya bruh, sis


----------



## bdon

fabi1982 said:


> So whenever AEW does bad it will be that story? Doesnt that feel stupid after writing it several times? Sadly NXT doesnt show WWE Network numbers, would love to see the difference and how many of those 780k watched it on the network 2 years ago.
> 
> All I was saying is that it is worrying that they lose so much demo viewership, doesnt matter how NXT does and what they got shoved down their asses. Which indicates that they are clearly doing something wrong.


And all I was saying is that AEW is starting from behind the 8-ball, minus having more financial backing. I’m not one to shit ok NXT. I don’t watch, because I can’t stomach the thought of giving Vince my time or money after what he did to my favorite company, WCW, but I do have friends who watch it and am genuinely glad that NXT is there for them as a choice to actively not watch Raw and SmackDown.

My only point was to speak on the reality of the matter. AEW is doing well all things considered. Anyone talking like they were going to topple WWE in year 1 wasn’t being realistic. Can NXT and AEW topple Raw and SmackDown in 5 year’s time? Possibly, but that won’t happen right off the bat.

750-950 is going to be the number for a while based on what is on the card. They both offer a great show and product that isn’t a part of Vince’s shit creative machinations.

And for that, I am happy, even if I, personally, don’t watch NXT.


----------



## DOTL

fabi1982 said:


> This argument was valid like 2 weeks ago. The last two shows had no „main roster star power“. And your overdramatic points how WWE is pushing NXT, I never heard anyone on RAW or SD the last week mentioning NXT at all. They put on interesting shows and this keeps people watching, nothing more nothing less.


 If WWE didn't believe that putting NXT over against their main roster on a MAJOR PPV would boost long term viewership, then explain why they did it. To win the night?



> And doesnt AEW is putting out „the guns“ with rushing that Mox/Jericho feud? MJF turn like half a year too early?


And? Mox vs Jericho is low-hanging fruit. If AEW wants to develop storylines so we will be excited for new guys like MJF (Wait, do you mean that a relative unknown is considered a gun AEW has? That means their process is working as far as I'm concerned) they will have to leverage the obvious angles first. Otherwise everything would be Shawn Spears versus Joey Janella.



> on the one hand NXT is getting all the power from WWE in the other hand „only stars NXT has is Balor and Keith Lee“. You AEW guys need to make up your mind what it is. And then again we are talking about AEW beating a show were everyone in here say „only the old WWE lamers watch“.


Your sentences barely make sense. Anyway, stop putting words in people's mouths. I said nothing about Keith Lee or Balor.



> And dont tell me TNT tweeting stuff like „this episode will blow everything else away“ not being some big gun stuff?!


I never said AEW wasn't using big guns. I said quite the opposite, actually.


----------



## fabi1982

bdon said:


> And all I was saying is that AEW is starting from behind the 8-ball, minus having more financial backing. I’m not one to shit ok NXT. I don’t watch, because I can’t stomach the thought of giving Vince my time or money after what he did to my favorite company, WCW, but I do have friends who watch it and am genuinely glad that NXT is there for them as a choice to actively not watch Raw and SmackDown.
> 
> My only point was to speak on the reality of the matter. AEW is doing well all things considered. Anyone talking like they were going to topple WWE in year 1 wasn’t being realistic. Can NXT and AEW topple Raw and SmackDown in 5 year’s time? Possibly, but that won’t happen right off the bat.
> 
> 750-950 is going to be the number for a while based on what is on the card. They both offer a great show and product that isn’t a part of Vince’s shit creative machinations.
> 
> And for that, I am happy, even if I, personally, don’t watch NXT.


Just loosing the main target audience since starting is not a good thing. I dont mind both shows getting better numbers and overtake RAW/SD in 5 years but in this day and age I dont know if a company like AEW has 5 years to be honest.

in some report it said the EVPs had the whole next 12 month planed out already in terms of storyline. If what we saw the last couple weeks is that said plan, then noting will get better in terms of viewership.


----------



## fabi1982

DOTL said:


> If WWE didn't believe that putting NXT over against their main roster on a MAJOR PPV would boost long term viewership, then explain why they did it. To win the night?
> 
> 
> 
> And? Mox vs Jericho is low-hanging fruit. If AEW wants to develop storylines so we will be excited for new guys like MJF (Wait, do you mean that a relative unknown is considered a gun AEW has? That means their process is working as far as I'm concerned) they will have to leverage the obvious angles first. Otherwise everything would be Shawn Spears versus Joey Janella.
> 
> 
> 
> Your sentences barely make sense. Anyway, stop putting words in people's mouths. I said nothing about Keith Lee or Balor.
> 
> 
> 
> I never said AEW wasn't using big guns. I said quite the opposite, actually.


If they wanted to boost long term viewership they would still send „main roster“ guys down to NXT but it is like everyone expected, once SS is done the main roster forgets about NXT. But still they got people interested in all the NXT guys, which is fantastic. So means NXT draws the interest, not the fact that a Setb Rollins can pop up on NXT.

MJF was never an unknown, he was front and center in BTE and the focal story with Cody for the last couple month, so please dont try to put stuff in my mouth 

and the sentence you did not understand was a generalization. Because it is often both parts, one says NXT has the WWE machinery, others say NXT barely has any stars. Sorry English is not my native language.

and as far as thia conversation began you said „even with the big guns AEW won“. Which indicates that at least for me AEW is the poor little kid, which it clearly isnt. They had all the stars out the last couple shows.

but I get your point.


----------



## bdon

When mentioning WWE sending “the big guns”, that comment needs to be understood that their “big guns” are coming from a show with years of built-in audiences on a national stage. AEW’s big guns come from THAT big stage, so they simply don’t have the built-in brand loyalty that WWE has.

It isn’t a knock to NXT. It is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

If they have enough time, I absolutely expect NXT and AEW’s numbers to BOTH grow to that level.


----------



## fabi1982

Like you said, if they get the time. I also hope they get it, especially AEW, because worst thing for NXT is its way back to the network.


----------



## Garty

It's truly mind-boggling to me that there is so much interest in a product that is "dead". Take a look at the NXT ratings thread. Notice anything? Tumbleweeds. If you're so happy with the NXT ratings, go and pat yourselves on the back, toot your horns, scream from the mountain tops, do whatever you have to do to make yourselves feel good because this "AEW sucks" rhetoric each and every day, post after post, opinion after opinion, has long gone beyond it's "best before" date. Are some of you not tired of hearing yourselves say the same thing in every thread? Get over yourselves.


----------



## rbl85

The problem is we live in a society where people don't like and don't want to give time for something to develop.


----------



## Intimidator3

RapShepard said:


> TNT just wasn't available for some reason. It froze up during the ending of the movie that came on before Dynamite then was unavailable for the vast majority of the first hour. I had to watch on the Spectrum App instead of my TV.


I wonder how people it affected? I just figured it was my local area, I had to watch the first hour on the internet. I’m on the east coast.


----------



## RapShepard

Intimidator3 said:


> I wonder how people it affected? I just figured it was my local area, I had to watch the first hour on the internet. I’m on the east coast.


I'm in the Midwest in Ohio so I'm guessing a lot


----------



## rbl85

Something that i found out since AEW started is that on this forum, twitter, etc.... people like AEW more or less in relation to the popularity of the show.

It's like people feel ashamed for liking a show that less than 1M people Watch.


----------



## imthegame19

The XL 2 said:


> People are talking about making stars......who on the roster has the potential to get over other than MJF? You could move heaven and earth and no one is making a star out of Sonny Kiss, Marko Stunt, Jimmy Havok, Joey Janela, Orange Cassidy, Jack Evans, Chuck Taylor, etc. I mean.....what the fuck is this roster? Were Khan and Cody trolling when they came up with this shit? This whole thing is so disappointing.



Umm all those guys listed weren't even on the show last night. Besides Janela for like 1 minute lol.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The XL 2 said:


> It's only downhill from here. Cody, Khan, and the Bucks should have put together a real roster and a plan as opposed to getting their friends, most who have no business on a national promotion, hired to 6 figure deals. NXT isn't doing much better, but they were getting their asses kicked and have basically caught up. It's a shame, it really looked like AEW could have been the closest thing to WCW since it went down, but really, it's not even close to as big as peak TNA or peak ECW were.


The last time I responded to you about some shit you said, you came back and said that you were just 'commenting about the state of the business.' I gave you the benefit of the doubt and haven't replied to you since. This time however that excuse isn't going to work, I have a real problem in you dictating who and who shouldn't be on a national promotion. 

Who the hell are you to decide how much success a person should have in their careers and where they should be allowed to work?

I'm just going to let you know straight up. Every time you post bullshit like this, I will be calling you out on it.


----------



## iarwain

The problem I see is that NXT has the momentum right now, with the huge WWE machine behind them to back it up. They're playing the long game, just as they said the first week. AEW needs to grow, but as has been said, there is no wrestling boom, so I wonder if the viewers are there. As long as they continue to draw to their live shows, they should be all right.

I'm not a big follower of indy wrestling, but I had always heard that Kenny Omega was a big star on the rise, a guy who could be the next John Cena. Now I like what I've seen from Omega, but they don't seem to be pushing him that much for a guy who supposedly has that kind of potential.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Oh, it must be doom-and-gloom Thursday again!!!


----------



## Derek30

Reggie Dunlop said:


> Oh, it must be doom-and-gloom Thursday again!!!


Too many promos in this thread


----------



## Taroostyles

The show last night was good, it didnt translate to a great rating but it's still a win with the demo numbers. 

They need a super hot angle to move the needle, The Elite vs Inner Circle stuff hasn't been capitalised on enough for me.


----------



## rbl85

So i said that i was worried about the tickets sale for next week show on Corpus Christie but i just found out that AEW is probably going to have the same number (more or less) than what Smackdown or Raw is doing when they go to Corpus.

Corpus is apparently just a bad market.


----------



## captainzombie

This is the problem with many people this day and age, they want instant gratification. AEW needs to grow the right way, they can't just grow overnight considering they have only been on TNT now for 2.5 months. The first few weeks they will get the most viewers as people want to see what this is all about. Plus wrestling is not like what it used to be and consider there are two shows splitting viewers on the same night, including those that are burnt out after 5 hours alone between RAW and SD alone.

Besides Jericho, Jericho, Moxley, and Cody they do need to find two more guys that can help spark up things. I think with the build they are doing with MJF and Page, these guys will be their next stars. They have a nice undercard to build around, yet people aren't happy with any of the guys that they have. Look at WWE's undercard, most of it at times it isn't the greatest because of how they are being used.

If anything, I get more worried about the women's division if they don't get that straight fairly soon. That is a real mess right now.


----------



## The XL 2

ripcitydisciple said:


> The last time I responded to you about some shit you said, you came back and said that you were just 'commenting about the state of the business.' I gave you the benefit of the doubt and haven't replied to you since. This time however that excuse isn't going to work, I have a real problem in you dictating who and who shouldn't be on a national promotion.
> 
> Who the hell are you to decide how much success a person should have in their careers and where they should be allowed to work?
> 
> I'm just going to let you know straight up. Every time you post bullshit like this, I will be calling you out on it.


Um, who are you? Lol at you having a problem with my opinion, like I give a fuck. Cody and Tony Khan can hire however many goofy jabronis or however many of their friends that they want if they want to tank their business, it's not my money or my product. But clowns like that don't belong on a national stage and the ratings reflect that. Deal with it, mark. They'd literally be better off grabbing random people off the street with no pro wrestling experience but with a standout attribute( look, charisma, size, etc) and they'd be far more qualified to be on national television than these goofballs who have no redeeming qualities when it comes to pro wrestling.


----------



## Soul Rex

Moxley is slowly turning into a megastar, soon he will be good enough to pop those ratings above 1 million.

But the lack of deep in this roster is quite frustrating.


----------



## captainzombie

Soul Rex said:


> Moxley is slowly turning into a megastar, soon he will be good enough to pop those ratings above 1 million.
> 
> But the lack of deep in this roster is quite frustrating.


Agreed on Moxley, and if they can keep building up MJF and Hangman they have a few more stars to work with.

The issue with Omega is that him and the Elite are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation where if they start getting pushes people will bitch that they EVP's are pushing one of their own.


----------



## rbl85

Soul Rex said:


> Moxley is slowly turning into a megastar, soon he will be good enough to pop those ratings above 1 million.
> 
> *But the lack of deep in this roster is quite frustrating.*


Nothing they can really do about it for the moment.


----------



## DOTL

fabi1982 said:


> If they wanted to boost long term viewership they would still send „main roster“ guys down to NXT but it is like everyone expected, once SS is done the main roster forgets about NXT. But still they got people interested in all the NXT guys, which is fantastic. So means NXT draws the interest, not the fact that a Setb Rollins can pop up on NXT.


And what's stopping them from doing it again? You act as if NXT is cut off from the main rosters like a sinner is from the Holy of Holies. My guess is that they want NXT to stand on its own so they don't have to fly in everyone every freaking week. That costs money. Doesn't change the fact that the "interest in NXT guys" was created from main roster interaction and getting put over by the biggest stars in all of the company. Which was a first in NXT history btw.



> MJF was never an unknown, he was front and center in BTE and the focal story with Cody for the last couple month, so please dont try to put stuff in my mouth


I didn't say you thought MJF was unknown. I said MJF is a *relative* unknown that you consider one of AEW's big guns. The point I was making is that AEW using their established guys puts guys like MJF over. In other words Jericho/Cody was designed to put MJF over. And it did as evidenced from the way you talk about him.



> and the sentence you did not understand was a generalization. Because it is often both parts, one says NXT has the WWE machinery, others say NXT barely has any stars. Sorry English is not my native language.


You're describing two different things. Just because NXT is still trying to establish their guys doesn't mean that the WWE machine isn't there. In terms of talent awareness both NXT and AEW are about even now. What tilts the scale is how much each can leverage its advantage. WWE's promotion capabilities is one advantage.



> and as far as thia conversation began you said „even with the big guns AEW won“. Which indicates that at least for me AEW is the poor little kid, which it clearly isnt. They had all the stars out the last couple shows.
> 
> but I get your point.


No, I said both AEW and NXT had their big guns, and they drew with AEW taking the demo. This is what happened, and it is not disappointing to me. This means to me that AEW has a core fanbase that they can build off of.


----------



## bdon

captainzombie said:


> Agreed on Moxley, and if they can keep building up MJF and Hangman they have a few more stars to work with.
> 
> The issue with Omega is that him and the Elite are in a damned if you do, damned if you don't type situation where if they start getting pushes people will bitch that they EVP's are pushing one of their own.


No, the EVPs will get bitched about when Cody makes sure to have his nose in every other storyline coming and going, makes himself a champion when he has never really been “that guy” anywhere else, or if the Bucks just bury every tag team they face.

I don’t see the Bucks doing that. They use a fair enough amount of TV time, and they’re not above doing an episode of Dark.

Cody, on the other hand...

All the while, they killed any aura that Kenny Omega had coming from NJPW. I’m tired of talking about it with so few agreeing. Kenny Omega looks like an undercard guy who has been on Dark for, what?, 3 of his matches since Dynamite began.

You can spin it however you want: Kenny is bored, Kenny is tired, Kenny is under pressure trying to book the women’s matches, whatever you want to say. The simple fact is that not a single one of them have made any effort to step up and say, “Hey Kenny, the company needs you to do a little more to help the ratings and the roster.”

I wonder why that is? I wonder why he is the only one not getting promos or vignettes. I wonder why he’s the one relegated to carry the Dark platform. I mean, it was Kenny’s matches with Okada and Jericho that put this altogether.

11 months. 11 months is all it took them to turn this into an episode of South Park with everyone screaming, “OMG, they killed Kenny!” Except in this episode, no one says a fucking word. Not even the fans, because they seem relegated to thinking he’s not really all that big of a deal as evidenced by the way they list the roster when running off names.


----------



## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

rbl85 said:


> So i said that i was worried about the tickets sale for next week show on Corpus Christie but i just found out that AEW is probably going to have the same number (more or less) than what Smackdown or Raw is doing when they go to Corpus.
> 
> Corpus is apparently just a bad market.


Corpus Christie is also a notoriously quiet market as well. Bet ya they are loud for AEW.


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> No, the EVPs will get bitched about when Cody makes sure to have his nose in every other storyline coming and going, makes himself a champion when he has never really been “that guy” anywhere else, or if the Bucks just bury every tag team they face.
> 
> I don’t see the Bucks doing that. They use a fair enough amount of TV time, and they’re not above doing an episode of Dark.
> 
> Cody, on the other hand...
> 
> All the while, they killed any aura that Kenny Omega had coming from NJPW.* I’m tired of talking about it with so few agreeing. *


Maybe that when the majority does not think like you that means that you're maybe in the wrong.


----------



## ripcitydisciple

The XL 2 said:


> Um, who are you? Lol at you having a problem with my opinion, like I give a fuck. Cody and Tony Khan can hire however many goofy jabronis or however many of their friends that they want if they want to tank their business, it's not my money or my product. But clowns like that don't belong on a national stage and the ratings reflect that. Deal with it, mark. They'd literally be better off grabbing random people off the street with no pro wrestling experience but with a standout attribute( look, charisma, size, etc) and they'd be far more qualified to be on national television than these goofballs who have no redeeming qualities when it comes to pro wrestling.


For someone who claims not to give a fuck, that is a lot of words you just wrote. Also you want to know why I have a problem with your 'opinion'(which it isn't, not when you present it as a fact or statement.) It is because it exposes you as a hypocrite because if someone said that about you, stating you didn't belong in the position of whatever industry you work in and just devalued all the time and hard work you put in to get to where you are now in life, you would have an issue with it. 

Don't tell me you wouldn't.

Unless you haven't gotten to that point yet, and are just bitter because of it and lash out at those who have what you don't.

Which ever the case may be, you have no right to decide the level of success a person is allowed to have in life.

As for your mark 'insult', If that is for 'Wrestling' mark, yeah, you got me, guilty. If you mean AEW mark, you are way off because I would say the same thing to you had I read you said that about a wrestler in WWE, NXT, New Japan, AAA, etc.

If you don't like me calling you out on your crap, maybe you should stop posting the written equivalent of diarrhea of the mouth then.


----------



## K4L318

fabi1982 said:


> I aint ya bruh, sis


oh shit 

oh shit

bruh came back wit a lame ass response.


----------



## K4L318

Soul Rex said:


> Moxley is slowly turning into a megastar, soon he will be good enough to pop those ratings above 1 million.
> 
> But the lack of deep in this roster is quite frustrating.


aint no small lack either.


----------



## Taroostyles

Theres not a lack of depth at all, if anything they have too much talent to showcase for just 2 hours. They are trying to do something that no company has done in years and that legitimately build new stars. 

They have already done so much with MJF, Darby, Scorpio, Page, Luchasaurus, Sammy, Jungle Boy, etc. They are playing the long game.


----------



## TAC41

Yeah, okay, JR.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RBrooks

Well, he's not wrong, it is limited ?


----------



## RKing85

meh. It's what they should say. Can't exactly say "thousands of seats still available, please come so it looks better on tv!!!!"


----------



## MetalKiwi

Fair call. We rip on WWE empty seats all the time lol


----------



## BigCy

bdon said:


> No, the EVPs will get bitched about when Cody makes sure to have his nose in every other storyline coming and going, makes himself a champion when he has never really been “that guy” anywhere else, or if the Bucks just bury every tag team they face.
> 
> I don’t see the Bucks doing that. They use a fair enough amount of TV time, and they’re not above doing an episode of Dark.
> 
> Cody, on the other hand...
> 
> All the while, they killed any aura that Kenny Omega had coming from NJPW. I’m tired of talking about it with so few agreeing. Kenny Omega looks like an undercard guy who has been on Dark for, what?, 3 of his matches since Dynamite began.
> 
> You can spin it however you want: Kenny is bored, Kenny is tired, Kenny is under pressure trying to book the women’s matches, whatever you want to say. The simple fact is that not a single one of them have made any effort to step up and say, “Hey Kenny, the company needs you to do a little more to help the ratings and the roster.”
> 
> I wonder why that is? I wonder why he is the only one not getting promos or vignettes. I wonder why he’s the one relegated to carry the Dark platform. I mean, it was Kenny’s matches with Okada and Jericho that put this altogether.
> 
> 11 months. 11 months is all it took them to turn this into an episode of South Park with everyone screaming, “OMG, they killed Kenny!” Except in this episode, no one says a fucking word. Not even the fans, because they seem relegated to thinking he’s not really all that big of a deal as evidenced by the way they list the roster when running off names.


This is pretty much how I feel about Kenny. The guy was hugely over and hot coming off his NJPW run and he should have been THE guy coming in, I honestly don't think anyone but a few people would have cried nepotism if he got the strap. Now I do think Jericho was a good choice as first champ but they really should have kept Kenny on top and had him be more relevant. Maybe it's solely a Kenny decision and he wants to be out of the spotlight. I don't want to cry conspiracy and think that Cody cut his balls off from under him to make sure he wasn't more popular than him when it started up. All I know is that they let the air out of the ball that Kenny had and now he may never get it back. I'm hoping that they have something really good planned for him and he gets his mojo and becomes hot again and catches fire like he did before.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> Pro wrestling died when kayfabe died. IMO the current style of product is not going to ever become mainstream again.
> 
> *and LifeIn made a good point a few days ago* - is ANYTHING "mainstream" anymore? With the internet, your taste or behaviour can become anything. Nobody is forced to watch TV anymore. Back in the 90s, was there anything else to watch?


Call me LICC mate  - guess I should change the username as some point 

and I agree with you (who agrees with me) - we don‘t need this to be mainstream, we need our hobby to be good, presented well and healthy.

dc comics used to print 550,000 Batman issues every month, now they print 50k - Batman is no less relevant. People’s consumption methods and expectations just changed


----------



## RBrooks

Do we know the quarter hour ratings?


----------



## fabi1982

DOTL said:


> And what's stopping them from doing it again? You act as if NXT is cut off from the main rosters like a sinner is from the Holy of Holies. My guess is that they want NXT to stand on its own so they don't have to fly in everyone every freaking week. That costs money. Doesn't change the fact that the "interest in NXT guys" was created from main roster interaction and getting put over by the biggest stars in all of the company. Which was a first in NXT history btw.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you thought MJF was unknown. I said MJF is a *relative* unknown that you consider one of AEW's big guns. The point I was making is that AEW using their established guys puts guys like MJF over. In other words Jericho/Cody was designed to put MJF over. And it did as evidenced from the way you talk about him.
> 
> 
> 
> You're describing two different things. Just because NXT is still trying to establish their guys doesn't mean that the WWE machine isn't there. In terms of talent awareness both NXT and AEW are about even now. What tilts the scale is how much each can leverage its advantage. WWE's promotion capabilities is one advantage.
> 
> 
> No, I said both AEW and NXT had their big guns, and they drew with AEW taking the demo. This is what happened, and it is not disappointing to me. This means to me that AEW has a core fanbase that they can build off of.


And why would we in this discussion thread care about *IF *WWE uses main roster stars again? And honestly I dont think they will do this until WM season. And I think the new interest came by an accident and NXT *TOOK *the ball and walked with it. Not everyone would have shown this power. But to be completely honest AEW took some guys from someones main roster and got pushed by that, although this can be seen as a differrent story 

The sad thing is that MJF is the only one and he was pushed since All in was announced in all the BTE and RTs. Since starting on TV they didnt create or push anybody, all they do is push the Elite minus Kenny.

And good with the core audience, although I thought it would be much higher. Now going to a constant million viewers will at least take two years, hope they get there.


----------



## bdon

BigCy said:


> This is pretty much how I feel about Kenny. The guy was hugely over and hot coming off his NJPW run and he should have been THE guy coming in, I honestly don't think anyone but a few people would have cried nepotism if he got the strap. Now I do think Jericho was a good choice as first champ but they really should have kept Kenny on top and had him be more relevant. Maybe it's solely a Kenny decision and he wants to be out of the spotlight. I don't want to cry conspiracy and think that Cody cut his balls off from under him to make sure he wasn't more popular than him when it started up. All I know is that they let the air out of the ball that Kenny had and now he may never get it back. I'm hoping that they have something really good planned for him and he gets his mojo and becomes hot again and catches fire like he did before.


Thank you.

Somebody who gets it.


----------



## fabi1982

K4L318 said:


> oh shit
> 
> oh shit
> 
> bruh came back wit a lame ass response.


Your schtik is really lame, stick your schtik right back were it belongs.


----------



## DOTL

fabi1982 said:


> And why would we in this discussion thread care about *IF *WWE uses main roster stars again? And honestly I dont think they will do this until WM season. And I think the new interest came by an accident and NXT *TOOK *the ball and walked with it. Not everyone would have shown this power. But to be completely honest AEW took some guys from someones main roster and got pushed by that, although this can be seen as a differrent story


Accident? You mean featuring NXT guys on the main show more promenetly than a lot of their main roster? If by accident you mean the Saudi stuff, then how does that explain the percistence in the use of NXT people leading up to SS? This was by design. It's obvious. Saudi Arabia might have just accelerated the plan, but this was always the plan. The main hype of AEW isn't the tangential connection to WWE, though that's part of it for SOME of the wrestlers.(really only Jericho and Moxly). The appeal is that they have a freer creative approach in addition to using some familiar faces. If you think Moxly is the most over guy because of the SHIELD, you haven't been paying attention to his work on the show.



> The sad thing is that MJF is the only one and he was pushed since All in was announced in all the BTE and RTs. Since starting on TV they didnt create or push anybody, all they do is push the Elite minus Kenny.


*BS*

PaP, Sammy G,Trent, Scorpio Sky, Rhio, Britt Baker( they tried) Jurassic Express, Darby Friken Allin, Private Party, and more I'm sure, are all bigger names than they were when this thing started. That's because of the AEW system. They've been doing nothing but leveraging Jericho's talent to get talent over and it's been working. Stop lying.



> hope they get there.


Do you? You've been downplaying their success this entire debate.


----------



## fabi1982

DOTL said:


> Accident? You mean featuring NXT guys on the main show more promenetly than a lot of their main roster? If by accident you mean the Saudi stuff, then how does that explain the percistence in the use of NXT people leading up to SS? This was by design. It's obvious. Saudi Arabia might have just accelerated the plan, but this was always the plan. The main hype of AEW isn't the tangential connection to WWE, though that's part of it for SOME of the wrestlers.(really only Jericho and Moxly). The appeal is that they have a freer creative approach in addition to using some familiar faces. If you think Moxly is the most over guy because of the SHIELD, you haven't been paying attention to his work on the show.
> 
> 
> 
> *BS*
> 
> PaP, Sammy G,Trent, Scorpio Sky, Rhio, Britt Baker( they tried) Jurassic Express, Darby Friken Allin, Private Party, and more I'm sure, are all bigger names than they were when this thing started. That's because of the AEW system. They've been doing nothing but leveraging Jericho's talent to get talent over and it's been working. Stop lying.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you? You've been downplaying their success this entire debate.


Of course by accident, I would go that far that it wouldnt ended like it did if they werent forced to put the NXT roster on the SD after Saudi Arabia. I say they saw the ratings increase for SD and went with it. But this is us having different opinions and no one can prove who is right. And where did I say Moxley is over because of the SHIELD? Why you bring that up? But both were stars before and in my opinion didnt grow yet in AEW, besides Mox overreacting when coming in and this promo he cut, what makes him more of a STAR now? Wrestling Janella or Allin definitelly isnt itr

About the names you dropped. Bigger "stars" doesnt mean stars. EVERYONE on NXT is now a bigger star than before, but none of these guys is a star. The people they pull from EVOLVE are all bigger stars, because they are shown to a national audience. But none of the names you drop actually moves any needle, or do you really think that?

And I want AEW to get the chance to actually develop new stars. I just dont see that happening at the moment, because they realized they have to rely on the known names to keep their target audience interested. And with known names I mean Mox, Jericho and all the Elite guys. I would be interested in a show not having ANYONE of them on, like the SD after Saudi Arabia, where NXT grew the audience even with no one else there. I am not sure how the "developmental talent" of AEW will do without the main names.


----------



## The Wood

Seems like the NXT plan is working.


----------



## volde

I'm not sure if AEW are really catering towards the hardcore wrestling fans. Here is the list of top 100 matches in 2019: https://www.cagematch.net/?id=111&view=list&search=2019&sortby=colRating&sorttype=DESC

It has 4 AEW matches and from TV start only Moxley/Omega is in it at 73 position. By comparison NJPW has 12 spots in top 20. I think they are doing lots of matches that aren't really clicking much with hardcore audience either. 100-200 list also has only 4 matches from AEW.


----------



## Mister Sinister

I'm looking forward to the quarter hours this week because there was some bad booking on the show.

1. Emi Sakura should never appear on television. She comes out with a moustache, she doesn't have a good look for tv, the crowd is dead, she was supposed to be the heel in the match this week but she was stomping and clapping to try to get the crowd behind her, and worst of all, she kept pulling reversals on everything from Swole (who was the one who the match was supposed to be putting over).

2. The main event was bunk. Garbage wrestling is a ratings dud, confirmed, sealed and buried. PnP can't carry a main event. Young Bucks can't main event either without some star power in the match (Jericho, Omega, Mox).

3. The fact is that you have to put main event STARS in the main event every week. They don't have a main event draw in the women's division for example-- this is why they need Tessa Blanchard. The women right now cannot possibly main event a show. The main events have to have Jericho, Omega, Mox or PAC. They need to sign Austin Aries in addition to Blanchard so they have another male star that can work the main event.

4. Instead of stacking the card, they need more surprises. While it's good to promote some matches, the best form of continuity in wrestling is the tease. Every week when Nitro ended, you had to tune in the next week to find out what was going to happen next-- there was always something unexpected, there were always cliffhangers or hit and runs. Dynamite is too on-track. There is no force of nature like the nWo driving the narrative. There is no one upsetting the week's plans. The main event and card go down as expected.

5. The hottest moment of the show was Mox's entrance. That was the whole f'n show. Then he squashed some dude whose face I literally never saw.


----------



## rbl85

Quarter 1 with Moxley and Jericho did 870k - NXT did 840k with Rush vs Garza
Quarter 2 with Cody/QT vs BBB 822k (loss of 48k) - NXT did 785, a loss of 55k with the end of rush vs garza and the video of Baszler
Q3 : MJF promo + Dark Order vignette did 814k (loss of 8k) - NXT did 759k, a loss of 26k with the proposal of Garza and Mendoza vs Grimes
Q4 : Sakura vs Swole and PAC promo did 796k (loss of 18k) - NXT did 723k, a loss 36k with Banks vs Ryker and Yim package.
Q5 : Omega/Page vs Sabian/ Spears did 782k (loss of 14k) - NXT did 782k, a gain of 59 with Kai vs Yim.
Q6 : End of Omega/Page vs Sabian/ Spears + Luchasaurus vs Guevara did 772k (loss of 10k) - NXT did 742K with Breezango vs Singh brothers, a loss of 40k.
Q7 : End of Lucha vs Guevara and the post match brawl with Jericho did 685k (loss of 87k) - NXT did 783, a gain of 41k with Belair vs Carter (people tuned in to see the main event)
Q8 : Bucks vs Pnp did 683k (loss of 2k)- NXT did 756k, a loss of 26k with Balor vs Ciampa vs Lee.

One thing that i noted is that the segment with Luchasaurus and Guevara had a lot of commercials, too many commercials = big drop ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

9PM everybody in the key demo switched to Hannity and other political shows.


----------



## roadkill_

I'm sure TNT is happy with these numbers. It's beginning to settle at about 30%+ of what they wanted. Khan has to escalate though. Big surprises, less midgetry.


----------



## Taroostyles

volde said:


> I'm not sure if AEW are really catering towards the hardcore wrestling fans. Here is the list of top 100 matches in 2019: https://www.cagematch.net/?id=111&view=list&search=2019&sortby=colRating&sorttype=DESC
> 
> It has 4 AEW matches and from TV start only Moxley/Omega is in it at 73 position. By comparison NJPW has 12 spots in top 20. I think they are doing lots of matches that aren't really clicking much with hardcore audience either. 100-200 list also has only 4 matches from AEW.


Not really a good measure cause their sample size is way too small. They only started in May for PPV and then October for TV. Plus for the entire year they ran a total of 16 shows. Yes 16, it may not feel like it but that's the number with the next Dynamite being 17. 

You know how many shows NJPW ran this year? I dont know the exact number but the G1 alone had more total dates than AEW had for the entire year. Plus it's just not the same format even if some of the fans crossover. AEW has an American tv audience they have to cater to and a network they have to answer to. NJPW in this country is specifically a thing just to watch great matches, that's all they have to do. It's just not comparing apples to apples.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Apparently AEW is not immune from the WWE style half arena set ups. Sucks but oh well.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

shadows123 said:


> Its not like they passed on anyone. They did sign everyone available. Most of the others are tied up on long term WWE contracts unfortunately and the rest won't matter anyway unless and until they build them up like they are doing with MJF
> 
> @Ace I think a deal with NJPW is nice but doubt it makes any difference. They are mostly unknown to the US audience. The only way this war ends well for either of them is if NXT moves to another time slot or AEW tries their hand Mondays.. Otherwise 3 hours of Raw drains most of the target audience for these shows.


No bet didn’t. Johnny Impact, Eli Drake, Austin Aries, Scarlett Boudreaux, James Storm, RVD, etc...a bunch of guys that they should have gobbled up on day 1. Imagine how much better AEW would be with those guys instead of people like Private Party, Jimmy Havoc, Dark Order, etc...


----------



## Jonhern

DOTL said:


> Accident? You mean featuring NXT guys on the main show more promenetly than a lot of their main roster? If by accident you mean the Saudi stuff, then how does that explain the percistence in the use of NXT people leading up to SS? This was by design. It's obvious. Saudi Arabia might have just accelerated the plan, but this was always the plan. The main hype of AEW isn't the tangential connection to WWE, though that's part of it for SOME of the wrestlers.(really only Jericho and Moxly). The appeal is that they have a freer creative approach in addition to using some familiar faces. If you think Moxly is the most over guy because of the SHIELD, you haven't been paying attention to his work on the show.
> 
> 
> 
> *BS*
> 
> PaP, Sammy G,Trent, Scorpio Sky, Rhio, Britt Baker( they tried) Jurassic Express, Darby Friken Allin, Private Party, and more I'm sure, are all bigger names than they were when this thing started. That's because of the AEW system. They've been doing nothing but leveraging Jericho's talent to get talent over and it's been working. Stop lying.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you? You've been downplaying their success this entire debate.


That is the thing about NXT, you can't really say they are developmental anymore, they are now the 3rd brand, they beat RAW and SDL at SS, they are now part of the main roster. Yes, maybe they are the C-show because they are at full sail, but SDL is not considered MR and RAW not because RAW is the B-show, so why are people saying NXT is not main roster now that they are clearly positioned as the 3rd show for WWE. Unless I'm wrong, they still have one of WWE's most popular guys in Finn. And AEW is still beating them, that's something to be commended.


----------



## Chan Hung

Corpus has always been a shit crowd even for WWE


----------



## imthegame19

It's just how wrestling is today on consistent basis. If a show is even 80 percent full it's a success.


----------



## Mister Sinister

They got to the end of the show and there wasn't anything left but Luchasaurus v Sammy and the tag main event, and that's when they lost nearly 90k (and they didn't turn to NXT-- they just turned off the tv).

The end of the show didn't have anything that was need-to-see.

With the main event down to 683k, they maybe need to move the show's start time back to 6PM Central.


----------



## kingfrass44

captainzombie said:


> This is the problem with many people this day and age, they want instant gratification. AEW needs to grow the right way, they can't just grow overnight considering they have only been on TNT now for 2.5 months. The first few weeks they will get the most viewers as people want to see what this is all about. Plus wrestling is not like what it used to be and consider there are two shows splitting viewers on the same night, including those that are burnt out after 5 hours alone between RAW and SD alone.
> 
> Besides Jericho, Jericho, Moxley, and Cody they do need to find two more guys that can help spark up things. I think with the build they are doing with MJF and Page, these guys will be their next stars. They have a nice undercard to build around, yet people aren't happy with any of the guys that they have. Look at WWE's undercard, most of it at times it isn't the greatest because of how they are being used.
> 
> If anything, I get more worried about the women's division if they don't get that straight fairly soon. That is a real mess right now.


If you don't bring high-rise views, TNA won't pay the money.
And they're going to go into high-end, expensive envelopes, and Khan's Leaves an unprofitable and expensive project
natural tnt happy They will not pay anythin and Free


----------



## Dark Emperor

Those days of sell outs in record time are long gone.

But yeah what did people expect him to say when promoting the tickets. He has to pretend the ticket is hot property and hope it creates demand.


----------



## Scissor Me Daddy-O!!

This is why I don't rip on WWE for low ticket sales. And, during the holidays even more. Any users on this forum using live TV ratings and ticket sales as the measure of success for WWE or AEW are as out of touch as Vince McMahon is. 

When AEW's PPV sales plummet, then we can laugh at their [_current_] terrible business model.


----------



## AEWMoxley

Literally every segment on Dynamite lost viewers. The only one I found surprising was the MJF segment. It was a great promo, so I'm disappointed people tuned out.

But as far as the rest of the show, it was entirely expected. The roster is just too weak, and they had their two biggest stars in the opening segment.

When will they learn that *both* Moxley and Jericho need to be in multiple segment. Yes, I know they have Jericho in multiple segments every week, but that's not enough.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> Literally every segment on Dynamite lost viewers. *The only one I found surprising was the MJF segment. It was a great promo, so I'm disappointed people tuned out.*
> 
> But as far as the rest of the show, it was entirely expected. The roster is just too weak, and they had their two biggest stars in the opening segment.
> 
> When will they learn that *both* Moxley and Jericho need to be in multiple segment. Yes, I know they have Jericho in multiple segments every week, but that's not enough.


MJF has never been a draw since Dynamite started.


----------



## AEWMoxley

rbl85 said:


> MJF has never been a draw since Dynamite started.


That's not true. His promo after Full Gear drew great numbers.

How did his match against Page do? I don't remember that.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Garty said:


> It's truly mind-boggling to me that there is so much interest in a product that is "dead". Take a look at the NXT ratings thread. Notice anything? Tumbleweeds. If you're so happy with the NXT ratings, go and pat yourselves on the back, toot your horns, scream from the mountain tops, do whatever you have to do to make yourselves feel good because this "AEW sucks" rhetoric each and every day, post after post, opinion after opinion, has long gone beyond it's "best before" date. Are some of you not tired of hearing yourselves say the same thing in every thread? Get over yourselves.


WWE fans who have had to deal with this shit for years be like: Ohh really?



Soul Rex said:


> Moxley is slowly turning into a megastar, soon he will be good enough to pop those ratings above 1 million.
> 
> But the lack of deep in this roster is quite frustrating.


"megastars" don't hope for a million viewers.


----------



## Jedah

The gap in the demo is the real point of concern, not the overall. I figured those numbers would be down in December.

AEW was kicking NXT's ass in the demo and that advantage has now shrunk considerably.

So far the shows have been on the whole good, the creative freedom helps a lot, but there are two major things that need some improvement.

1. These random matches need to end. Everything needs to feel like it's happening for a reason. Shit like Pac vs. Trent or Swole vs. Sakura doesn't belong on Dynamite. Keep that shit on Dark.

2. Some booking needs improvement. There was no reason why the Bucks should have won this week. Santana and Ortiz should have won this week and the titles next week. They have this faction in the Inner Circle but so far only Jericho is winning consistently. If you were gonna do that, go all the way with it. There's still time to. The idea should be to build Inner Circle into this tyrannical empire so that when Moxley starts taking a sledgehammer to it, it feels like that much of a bigger deal. They aren't delivering in the way they could. Some of the booking feels annoyingly half-hearted like WWE.


----------



## RapShepard

Taroostyles said:


> *Theres not a lack of depth at all, if anything they have too much talent to showcase for just 2 hours.* They are trying to do something that no company has done in years and that legitimately build new stars.
> 
> They have already done so much with MJF, Darby, Scorpio, Page, Luchasaurus, Sammy, Jungle Boy, etc. They are playing the long game.


Disagree they have more than enough time given the roster they have. Their issue (WWE's issue as well) is that they spend too much TV time having matches instead of building characters. Before Thunder was a thing and before SmackDown was a thing look at all the talent WCW and WWF had yet were able to get over in 2 hours. A TV match going past 10 minutes should be the exception instead of the norm.


----------



## rbl85

AEWMoxley said:


> That's not true. His promo after Full Gear drew great numbers.
> 
> How did his match against Page do? I don't remember that.


Tell me with who MJF was in the ring when he made his promo ? Jericho 
People didn't tune in for MJF, they did it for Jéricho who started his promo before MJF.


----------



## llj

AEWMoxley said:


> Literally every segment on Dynamite lost viewers. The only one I found surprising was the MJF segment. It was a great promo, so I'm disappointed people tuned out.


It was a myth that more promos would get more viewers. I remember early on in AEW's run people were yelling for more promos to help increase viewers.

Yeah, about that...

It's not a promo thing or a wrestling thing. The fact is just that wrestling is a niche genre, there is no magic answer out there that will solve the problem. Hardcore fans obsess WAY MORE over promos than casuals do. It's frankly hilarious that fans pick apart wrestling promos with so much fervor when the casual audience doesn't give a toss either way.


----------



## kingfrass44

I'mTheGreatest said:


> People who left will surely be back.
> 
> They are just weak minded folks who can't adjust to change - It's gonna take sometime for those mental midgets to comeback and truly realize and appreciate how amazing WF has become.


They'll never come back Unless Get rid of half midgets
Until they lost demo 
The basics never change


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

So we're dooming and glooming over a decent rating yet again? Yawn.


----------



## Rozzop

Its all about opinions isnt it. In my opinion they have a really weak roster. 

Okay, there are no stars out there for them to sign so they have to make their own. That will take time. 

I used to love early TNA. Just because it was an alternative to WWE, but it also had some serious talent. 

Styles, Joe, Daniels, Sabin, Low Ki, Punk, Abyss, Roode, Storm - all guys that were new to me. A lot of those got over with the X division, AEW doesnt have that. 

As well as the likes of Jarrett, Raven, Rhyno, Dudleys etc who I was familiar with. 

I know TNA wasnt succesful but my point it personally I found their roster to be miles better than current AEW. 

They need an undercard belt and they need matches to feel important. Im not watching Janella against Jungle Boy for 25 minutes with nothing on the line. 

The only way I see them improving ratings is picking up rejects from WWE. Harper or maybe a Rusev would boost them. But they need to actually have a purpose. Has Hager wrestled yet? What a waste. Not exactly a fan but at least people know who he is.


----------



## imthegame19

AEWMoxley said:


> That's not true. His promo after Full Gear drew great numbers.
> 
> How did his match against Page do? I don't remember that.


The segment he drew in also had Jericho and Cody. His match with Page didn't do all that well. I like MJF as much as anyone. But he has same problem all the unknown guys have when it comes to ratings. Talent is the issue with the roster. 


It's fans turn channel when they see segments/matches with people they don't know. What happen during Luchurarous and Guevara match is perfect example of that. Both are very talented and over. But against each other with no other know talent with them. Well they are ratings killers. Getting fans use to new faces is gonna take time and you need to put them in segments/matches with people who fans know and like.


----------



## DOTL

fabi1982 said:


> Of course by accident, I would go that far that it wouldnt ended like it did if they werent forced to put the NXT roster on the SD after Saudi Arabia. I say they saw the ratings increase for SD and went with it. But this is us having different opinions and no one can prove who is right. And where did I say Moxley is over because of the SHIELD? Why you bring that up? But both were stars before and in my opinion didnt grow yet in AEW, besides Mox overreacting when coming in and this promo he cut, what makes him more of a STAR now? Wrestling Janella or Allin definitelly isnt itr


It wasn't an accident. SS was coming up and they just were forced to get a early start in promoting it. Evidence: NXT swept the PPV. If it was just about Raw/SD ratings, why did NXT go over them in an organization that doesn't want to put over people who are already over? As for Mox, you said that AEW is benefiting from WWE stars, and I'm saying that only partially true as the WWE stars are also benefiting from AEW. Mox is more over now relative to the heat he got on WWE because of the way he's presented. That includes his time with Shield.



> About the names you dropped. Bigger "stars" doesnt mean stars. EVERYONE on NXT is now a bigger star than before, but none of these guys is a star. The people they pull from EVOLVE are all bigger stars, because they are shown to a national audience. But none of the names you drop actually moves any needle, or do you really think that?


How do you think stars are made? By building up heat gradually. Rarely do you have a star overnight, and even if you do, there's usually a fair amount of heat on that individual already.



> And I want AEW to get the chance to actually develop new stars. I just dont see that happening at the moment, because they realized they have to rely on the known names to keep their target audience interested. And with known names I mean Mox, Jericho and all the Elite guys. I would be interested in a show not having ANYONE of them on, like the SD after Saudi Arabia, where NXT grew the audience even with no one else there. I am not sure how the "developmental talent" of AEW will do without the main names.


WWE's main shows are more over than any one "superstar." They can afford to have a show with none of their big names because of the preexisting viewership of RAW and Smackdown on their respective channels, not any particular wrestler. The idea that you think NXT carried that SD show by virtue of their talent alone as oppose to who I'm guessing was HHH booking a smart invasion angle, proves to me you either don't understand this or are completely delusional about NXT's drawing abilities. Remember when SD was on FS1? If your theory was correct, that's it's all driven by talent and not the brand itself and access to it, then that show should have had the same numbers as SD on FOX. It was the worse rated show ever in the history of SD. Why? Because WWE's talent only can draw within SD's preexisting audience, and SD itself was in no way in position to draw its usual amount.

AEW can't do this because AEW is a new brand that needs to get over in it's own right. Using guys like Mox and Jericho and Omega is how that gets done. Trying to play WWE's game with a weaker brand would be dumb.


----------



## Garty

It's almost a guarantee that NXT will "win" the ratings "war" on December 25th. They have pre-taped a few matches to air, in addition to any "best of the year" matches they may have lined up. At this point in time, it doesn't look like AEW has anything scheduled for that night. Besides, how many people are actually going to be watching wrestling on Christmas day?


----------



## rbl85

Garty said:


> It's almost a guarantee that NXT will "win" the ratings "war" on December 25th. They have pre-taped a few matches to air, in addition to any "best of the year" matches they may have lined up. At this point in time, it doesn't look like AEW has anything scheduled for that night. Besides, how many people are actually going to be watching wrestling on Christmas day?


I mean AEW have a show the first of january while have nothing….the ratings will not count for both night.


----------



## Garty

rbl85 said:


> I mean AEW have a show the first of january while have nothing….the ratings will not count for both night.


In regard to viewership, Christmas Day is different than New Years Day. On Christmas Day, you're still with family, traveling, eating dinner, etc. On New Years Day, it's really only a day of "recovery" ? for most people because it's the night before, New Years Eve, that is celebrated by everyone.


----------



## RiverFenix

New Years Day has College Football out the wazoo. Will be interesting to see the ratings.


----------



## IronMan8

For those who have been paying close attention, do the minute ratings and YouTube views correlate with what happens on next week’s show?

In the Attitude Era, they would essentially let the market decide what happens next by letting the numbers dictate storyline airtime on a week-to-week basis.

AEW’s YouTube channel could have similar metrics that influence next week’s show.

Is this happening?


----------



## bdon

DOTL said:


> It wasn't an accident. SS was coming up and they just were forced to get a early start in promoting it. Evidence: NXT swept the PPV. If it was just about Raw/SD ratings, why did NXT go over them in an organization that doesn't want to put over people who are already over? As for Mox, you said that AEW is benefiting from WWE stars, and I'm saying that only partially true as the WWE stars are also benefiting from AEW. Mox is more over now relative to the heat he got on WWE because of the way he's presented. That includes his time with Shield.
> 
> 
> 
> How do you think stars are made? By building up heat gradually. Rarely do you have a star overnight, and even if you do, there's usually a fair amount of heat on that individual already.
> 
> 
> WWE's main shows are more over than any one "superstar." They can afford to have a show with none of their big names because of the preexisting viewership of RAW and Smackdown on their respective channels, not any particular wrestler. The idea that you think NXT carried that SD show by virtue of their talent alone as oppose to who I'm guessing was HHH booking a smart invasion angle, proves to me you either don't understand this or are completely delusional about NXT's drawing abilities. Remember when SD was on FS1? If your theory was correct, that's it's all driven by talent and not the brand itself and access to it, then that show should have had the same numbers as SD on FOX. It was the worse rated show ever in the history of SD. Why? Because WWE's talent only can draw within SD's preexisting audience, and SD itself was in no way in position to draw its usual amount.
> 
> AEW can't do this because AEW is a new brand that needs to get over in it's own right. Using guys like Mox and Jericho and *Omega is how that gets done[/b Trying to play WWE's game with a weaker brand would be dumb.
> *


*

Cody has him doing a damn good job carrying the Dark brand. ?*


----------



## rbl85

IronMan8 said:


> For those who have been paying close attention, do the minute ratings and YouTube views correlate with what happens on next week’s show?
> 
> In the Attitude Era, they would essentially let the market decide what happens next by letting the numbers dictate storyline airtime on a week-to-week basis.
> 
> AEW’s YouTube channel could have similar metrics that influence next week’s show.
> 
> Is this happening?


A good portion of the views on YouTube are from people who don't live in the US.


----------



## DOTL

bdon said:


> *Cody has him doing a damn good job carrying the Dark brand. ?*


 In a way, he is. Dark matches draw over 300k on youtube. How many people watch dark WWE matches?


----------



## yeahright2

Rozzop said:


> Its all about opinions isnt it. In my opinion they have a really weak roster.
> 
> Okay, there are no stars out there for them to sign so they have to make their own. That will take time.
> 
> I used to love early TNA. Just because it was an alternative to WWE, but it also had some serious talent.
> 
> Styles, Joe, Daniels, Sabin, Low Ki, Punk, Abyss, Roode, Storm - all guys that were new to me. A lot of those got over with the X division, AEW doesnt have that.
> 
> As well as the likes of Jarrett, Raven, Rhyno, Dudleys etc who I was familiar with.
> 
> I know TNA wasnt succesful but my point it personally I found their roster to be miles better than current AEW.
> 
> They need an undercard belt and they need matches to feel important. Im not watching Janella against Jungle Boy for 25 minutes with nothing on the line.
> 
> The only way I see them improving ratings is picking up rejects from WWE. Harper or maybe a Rusev would boost them. But they need to actually have a purpose. Has Hager wrestled yet? What a waste. Not exactly a fan but at least people know who he is.


Familiar faces is what keeps the viewers; You mentioned TNA - I used to watch that and it started simply by accident while channel surfing and suddenly I saw Sting. Stuck around a little longer and then there was Angle.. Next week I tuned in again, and stayed with them all the way through the Dixie, Hogan/Bishoff, Corgan, Jarrett(GFW) failure. I finally gave up when they lost Styles, Joe, Daniels, Awesome Kong, Mickie James, Storm and Roode.
AEW needs more than Jericho, and they need to stop acting like everyone already is familiar names. Butcher, Blade & The Bunny? Who are they? Couldn´t they use Braxton Sutter and Allie? there´s at least a chance that wrestling fans will know them.


----------



## Taroostyles

RapShepard said:


> Disagree they have more than enough time given the roster they have. Their issue (WWE's issue as well) is that they spend too much TV time having matches instead of building characters. Before Thunder was a thing and before SmackDown was a thing look at all the talent WCW and WWF had yet were able to get over in 2 hours. A TV match going past 10 minutes should be the exception instead of the norm.


Totally different era, not even close to comparable. Plus the total roster back then of WWE and WCW was nowhere close to as big as WWEs roster today, not even remotely close. They have 200 people signed working in developmental and NXT alone. 

Plus in that era they were routinely using enhancement talent on TV matches, squash matches have their place but certainly wont grab a large audience these days when they have to fight for every viewer of the small portion that still has cable left.


----------



## RapShepard

Taroostyles said:


> Totally different era, not even close to comparable. Plus the total roster back then of WWE and WCW was nowhere close to as big as WWEs roster today, not even remotely close. They have 200 people signed working in developmental and NXT alone.
> 
> Plus in that era they were routinely using enhancement talent on TV matches, squash matches have their place but certainly wont grab a large audience these days when they have to fight for every viewer of the small portion that still has cable left.


My point is WWF and WCW had larger rosters than AEW and made 2 hours work with getting multiple levels of talent over. Folk love to say things along the lines of "AEW has to retrain fans who are used to WWE's bad practices" when it comes to " long term" story telling. Well how about they also retrain folk on expecting long TV matches. 

You say squash matches and short matches won't work, but I'd call BS. Keep matches on TV to 4-8 minutes on . The extra time saved you can add more matches, promos, or story building for people who aren't already known names. As far enhancement talent they weren't really using them as much as you think. It's just back then there wasn't really this idea of "oh god The Acolytes lost in 4 minutes they're fucking buried how can I take them serious now".


----------



## xio8ups

Kicking out of 15 finishers and 10 high spots. With no story lines outside the ring is not going to draw in the casuals. Sorry its already failed.


----------



## rbl85

xio8ups said:


> Kicking out of *15 finishers* and 10 high spots. With no story lines outside the ring is not going to draw in the casuals. Sorry its already failed.


What the fuck are you talking about ?

The only one who kicked out of a finisher since AEW started is Jericho at Full Gear


----------



## Rozzop

yeahright2 said:


> Familiar faces is what keeps the viewers; You mentioned TNA - I used to watch that and it started simply by accident while channel surfing and suddenly I saw Sting. Stuck around a little longer and then there was Angle.. Next week I tuned in again, and stayed with them all the way through the Dixie, Hogan/Bishoff, Corgan, Jarrett(GFW) failure. I finally gave up when they lost Styles, Joe, Daniels, Awesome Kong, Mickie James, Storm and Roode.
> AEW needs more than Jericho, and they need to stop acting like everyone already is familiar names. Butcher, Blade & The Bunny? Who are they? Couldn´t they use Braxton Sutter and Allie? there´s at least a chance that wrestling fans will know them.


There are no big names left in wrestling though. TNA was lucky enough to get going whilst all the stars were young enough to compete and the "new" guys got elevated in the process. 

AEW is just coming across as Ring of Honor on a bigger budget. Which is fine if you like that sort of thing but Cody and Moxley are no Sting and Angle and Jungle Boy is no Styles.


----------



## imthegame19

Rozzop said:


> There are no big names left in wrestling though. TNA was lucky enough to get going whilst all the stars were young enough to compete and the "new" guys got elevated in the process.
> 
> AEW is just coming across as Ring of Honor on a bigger budget. Which is fine if you like that sort of thing but Cody and Moxley are no Sting and Angle and Jungle Boy is no Styles.


What did those stars ever do for TNA? They come where never close to AEW attendance or PPV buys even in there peak. While their tv ratings weren't that good for pre cord cutting, on demand and streaming era. So if anything Moxley and Cody are doing more for AEW then Sting/Angle did for TNA.


----------



## Rozzop

imthegame19 said:


> What did those stars ever do for TNA? They come where never close to AEW attendance or PPV buys even in there peak. While their tv ratings weren't that good for pre cord cutting, on demand and streaming era. So if anything Moxley and Cody are doing more for AEW then Sting/Angle did for TNA.


Different time, different place. We cant really compare the two. 

I would like AEW to have a more fleshed out roster but I suppose that will take time.


----------



## imthegame19

Rozzop said:


> Different time, different place. We cant really compare the two.
> 
> I would like AEW to have a more fleshed out roster but I suppose that will take time.


My point was AEW already been way more successful then TNA ever was. Remember TNA never did over 55,000 buys for a PPV and record attendance was 7,200. Yes in 2011 which was TNA best tv ratings year. They averages between 1.8 to 1.9 million viewers.


By today standards that would be great. But during that time Raw was doing almost 5 million viewers and even shows would do WWE main event drew over million viewers. During those days a lot more people were watching cable tv. Which is why TNA often finished in the mid teens for top rated show for that night.

I agree that AEW roster could be a little deeper. But that should be expected with a start up company. Especially in this day and age when there's so many wrestling companies. Between WWE three shows, Impact, ROH, New Japan and smaller companies. So there's only so much talent available.

Overall AEW did a great job putting together a roster all things considered. Getting Jericho and Moxley contract up and wanting to leave was perfect for them.


Its one thing to be a fan and hear of Omega or Young Bucks, Adam Page, LAX or Lucha Bros even though they didnt have big time exposure in US. But a year ago only super super hardcore wrestling fans knew of Darby Allin, Joey Janela, Kip Sabian, Luchurarous, Jungle Boy, Sammy Guevara, MJF, Scorpio Sky, Private Party, Best Friends, Dark Order, Butcher&Blade and whole woman's roster outside of Awesome Kong. So getting wrestling fans to all of the sudden care about so many new faces at once is near impossible and you can't expect them to draw a good rating.


Some of those guys will catch on and become known communities and others will get let go. With AEW adding new talent to replace them as it becomes available. Remember everyone talks about TNA roster in 2006 or 2007 through 2012 or so. It took them years to build up that roster and AEW roster a few years from now will look much stronger then today. With either new im house talent growing/developing and adding more outside talent.


----------



## xio8ups

no one cares for fake wrestling and fake fights except the 2 million hardcore fans left. Sorry case closed


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> What the fuck are you talking about ?
> 
> The only one who kicked out of a finisher since AEW started is Jericho at Full Gear


This.

why do people keep thinking all these guys’ ‘big moves‘ are finishers? 

It shows a real lack of attention span


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

optikk sucks said:


> And people say that AEW isn't growing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They need to look at these numbers and book 2020 with these three as FOTC. They can really elevate some of the other talent, like Page, MJF etc.


You can only have so many top guys and they refuse to make a midcard for some reason. They need a midcard title for the new year.


----------



## rbl85

xio8ups said:


> no one cares for fake wrestling and fake fights except the 2 million hardcore fans left. Sorry case closed


Then GTFO.


----------



## xio8ups

Maybe more wrestlers that look like high school kids kicking out at 2 after every big move. Can help draw some new fans in. Oh wait.


----------



## rbl85

xio8ups said:


> Maybe more wrestlers that look like high school kids kicking out at 2 after every big move. Can help draw some new fans in. Oh wait.


Why would they not kick out when it's not a finisher ?


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Why would they not kick out when it's not a finisher ?



Hes trolling but his point is halfway right. These random TV matches go WAY too long with WAY too many 2.9 kickouts. Swole vs. Sakura was a prime example. Just dumb and unnecessary.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Hes trolling but his point is halfway right. These random TV matches go WAY too long with WAY too many 2.9 kickouts. Swole vs. Sakura was a prime example. Just dumb and unnecessary.


I agree that the Swole vs Sakura was too long but i think they did it with the following logic : It was the only women segment (the one with Brandi lasted 1min30s) of the show and because of that they decided to give a lot of time to both woman (but that was too much).
Now AEW is in a no win situation with the women division because a lot of people don't want it to take too much time on TV but at the same time the same amount of people complain about the lack of women segments during the shows.
I think that they want to please both side.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> I agree that the Swole vs Sakura was too long but i think they did it with the following logic : It was the only women segment (the one with Brandi lasted 1min30s) of the show and because of that they decided to give a lot of time to both woman (but that was too much).
> Now AEW is in a no win situation with the women division because a lot of people don't want it to take too much time on TV but at the same time the same amount of people complain about the lack of women segments during the shows.
> I think that they want to please both side.


Sakura doesnt need to be on national TV, period. Theres literally no reason for it. The match itself didnt even make sense. Why am I watching this young, athletic ripped to shreds black chick struggle to beat some 50 year old Asian in drag for 15 minutes? Whats the point? It does nothing. 

Plus, wasnt Swole 0-4 going in? Why is she on Dynamite anyway? Because she signed? So what? When someone comes out and I read that record, why would I even care? Would an 0-4 college football team be broadcast on National TV? Of course not. None of it makes sense.


----------



## llj

There is no magic answer. They've done everything people in here suggested except hire a big 6'5 muscular dude, and they aren't exactly high in abundance. Both AEW and WWE have in the past few years pushed "characters" over workrate (what is The Fiend, after all, but a character?), badasses, better workrate, worse workrate, more promos...and none of the suggestions have done a single thing.

People need to come to terms with the fact that wrestling as we know it is a niche genre at best, possibly slowly dying at worst.

The real answer is you can't attract new audiences with new ideas if they aren't even watching to see your new ideas in the first place.

Every week, it's the same people watching these programs. You guys think a big new character and awesome promo is going to have the casuals suddenly tune in? No. They aren't even watching the programs at all, why would they? This idea of "channel flippers stopping to watch something good" is so outdated a concept. Nobody is "channel flipping" anymore, so you're not going to attract any channel flippers with whatever ideas you suggest. Audiences already know whether or not they want to watch wrestling, so they don't watch wrestling. Period.


----------



## Christopher Near

Dark Emperor said:


> Those days of sell outs in record time are long gone.
> 
> But yeah what did people expect him to say when promoting the tickets. He has to pretend the ticket is hot property and hope it creates demand.


To be fair people shit on Michael Cole for exaggerating tickets


----------



## The Masked Avenger

Hell, I got Sling and I can't even flip through channels. I can only look at the guide and pick what I want. I see Ring of Honor, Impact, WoW and New Japan all the time and I've only watched Impact once. RVD vs Rhyno w/ Tommy Dreamer as the ref and I started to question if I had time traveled. That match was as far as I got.


----------



## RiverFenix

You only get to become a familiar face if you're seen on television. It's a catch-22. 

If NXT wasn't put on as counter programming, AEW would be smooth sailing right now as they could slowly build their roster, brand and storylines. You could probably add another 200K viewers to AEW and have them right around a millions viewers weekly. 

With the use of main roster visits and Balor demotion, the NXT roster is just as star powered as AEW's. AEW is just lucky that NXT is staying in Full Sail through March now. 

Vince does seem to be sacrificing MNR ratings for NXT given he's leaving obviously over and ready talent there now for the Wednesday Night Wars aspect. 

WWE's problem is a plethora of riches - so many wrestlers are so good that nothing is good ie nothing stands out. Nobody separates themselves and it all comes down to the writers and ultimately Vince.


----------



## validreasoning

AEW have definitely more starpower on top.

NXT does not have an IWGP champion/multiple time Tokyo Dome maineventer on its roster.

It doesn't have a member of most pushed faction in WWE last 15 years, multiple time wwe ppv maineventer and WWE champion

Or it doesn't have a guy who worked on or near the top of WWE since 1999, multiple time world champion in WWE and former Wrestlemania maineventer.

The biggest name in NXT is Balor who was Universal champion for one day and never mainevented a WWE ppv in singles capacity. Next would be Cole who hadn't appeared on national TV prior to WWE, was midcard level in Japan, champion in ROH fair enough but that doesn't make one a big name.

Cody, Bucks, Pac would all be bigger names to audience than everyone in NXT bar Balor pre NXT debut on USA.


----------



## RiverFenix

WWE just by chance is bringing it's New Years Revolution trademark out of the mothballs and calling their upcoming tour the "New Years Revolution" Tour . It was last used by WWE in 2007. Can't imagine why they've decided to do this.

I think the AEW PPV name sucks anyways, but Khan and co should have realized WWE owns this trademark still. Cody and Tony really need to hire a proper businessman to run this show.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE just by chance is bringing it's New Years Revolution trademark out of the mothballs and calling their upcoming tour the "New Years Revolution" Tour . It was last used by WWE in 2007. Can't imagine why they've decided to do this.
> 
> I think the AEW PPV name sucks anyways, but *Khan and co should have realized WWE owns this trademark still.* Cody and Tony really need to hire a proper businessman to run this show.


WWE owns "new years revolution" and AEW owns "revolution".
It's not because the word "revolution" is in "new years revolution" that WWE owns the word "revolution", that's not how it work XD


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> WWE owns "new years revolution" and AEW owns "revolution".
> It's not because the word "revolution" is in "new years revolution" that WWE owns the word "revolution", that's not how it work XD


Right but the fact WWE owns New Years Revolution they'd be petty/savvy to dust it off to counter AEW's use of their similar trademark. 

It's like The Bash/Great American Bash vs Bash at the Beach. 

AEW needs to come up with their own trademarkable names. Lack of creativity is ridiculous. 

I mean Revolution is going to be one of their big four. So they want to have Revolution IV or even Revolution XI. Seems short sighted as hell. 

All Out, Full Gear, Revolution, Double or Nothing. 

Big fat "Meh".


----------



## Dark Emperor

Christopher Near said:


> To be fair people shit on Michael Cole for exaggerating tickets


People shit on everything WWE related. Almost every show they say it was terrible. I watch and half the time its not. Everyone is used to the criticism.

AEW fans however are a lot more sensitive as its a new product.


----------



## BigCy

Maybe they'll be one of those companies that ahve a different name for every PPV. I really hope not but it kind of seems that way right now. I think they should stick with the gambling theme they had going. They could easily come up with 4-6 names of events that way and make it make sense.

All-In - They can try to make this their yearly big one.
Double-Or-Nothing 
Joker's Wild 
All-Out 

Quick, easy, and themed. If they go with 6 (which I think they should and just lower PPV price by $5-$10.) They could add a couple more.

Royal Flush, Betting The House, Hit The Jackpot, Off the Board, Wrestling Wager, Round Robin, etc. So many possibilities.

Whatever they do they need to stick to the same month and the same event name and just add the Roman Numeral or the Year after it to indicate which one it is.

I kind of get the feeling they are all over the place with everything and it's kind of disjointed at the moment. Hopefully they come up with something organized and it makes sense.


----------



## Garty

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> WWE just by chance is bringing it's New Years Revolution trademark out of the mothballs and calling their upcoming tour the "New Years Revolution" Tour . It was last used by WWE in 2007. Can't imagine why they've decided to do this.


Yeah, I can't seem to figure that out either. I'll have to think about it for a while. Wait! I got it! Holy shit! WAIT!

Is WWE really going to keep doing this type of petty, tit-for-tat nonsense, every time AEW makes a move? Anyone can see it's 100% obvious that they are. They're making themselves look so "weak". It's laughable. It really is.


----------



## imthegame19

It doesn't matter to me what WWE calls their house show tours. It's not like it's gonna have an impact on people watching/buying the ppv.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> You only get to become a familiar face if you're seen on television. It's a catch-22.
> 
> If NXT wasn't put on as counter programming, AEW would be smooth sailing right now as they could slowly build their roster, brand and storylines. You could probably add another 200K viewers to AEW and have them right around a millions viewers weekly.
> 
> With the use of main roster visits and Balor demotion, the NXT roster is just as star powered as AEW's. AEW is just lucky that NXT is staying in Full Sail through March now.
> 
> Vince does seem to be sacrificing MNR ratings for NXT given he's leaving obviously over and ready talent there now for the Wednesday Night Wars aspect.
> 
> WWE's problem is a plethora of riches - so many wrestlers are so good that nothing is good ie nothing stands out. Nobody separates themselves and it all comes down to the writers and ultimately Vince.


Which is why when people refer to this as a "war" they come off stupid. NXT is doing exactly what its there to do.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

AEW shoulud just move Dynamite to Fridays if Vince just has to go against them. I imagine that the crowds would draw much better for AEW on a Friday night vs a Wednesday night. There is no NFL on Friday nights so Kahn is good there. And there are just alot more viewers to pull from on a Friday night than a Wednesday night.

And yes I realize Dynamite would draw 1/3rd to 2/5ths of the viewers than Smackdown does but they would be healthier.


----------



## rbl85

Meltzer said in the last WOR that AEW is doing big DVR numbers (more than any other wrestling show) and that if you add the live number and the DVR (3-4 day after the show) number you end up with more or less 1.4M (for every episode).
So that means that the people who watch the first episode didn't stop to watch AEW but some stopped watching it live. 

Now AEW have to find a way to make the people who DVR the show decide to watch it live.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said in the last WOR that AEW is doing big DVR numbers (more than any other wrestling show) and that if you add the live number and the DVR (3-4 day after the show) number you end up with more or less 1.4M (for every episode).
> So that means that the people who watch the first episode didn't stop to watch AEW but some stopped watching it live.
> 
> Now AEW have to find a way to make the people who DVR the show decide to watch it live.


What does DVR'ing it do to TNT's ad revenues? What is the difference watching it live vs taping it and watching it later? Also I suspect more than a few of the live viewers are also DVR'ing it to watch a second time.


----------



## validreasoning

Advertisers have little interest in DVR. Live sport is normally only 1-5% DVR hence it's huge rights fees as everyone is watching live.

Wwe programming is normally 80-85% live watching and it gets decent rights fees but well below live sports.

If AEW were doubling their numbers via DVR it should be top listed show on week ratings https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-7-ratings-oct-28-nov-3-2019/



TKO Wrestling said:


> AEW shoulud just move Dynamite to Fridays if Vince just has to go against them. I imagine that the crowds would draw much better for AEW on a Friday night vs a Wednesday night. There is no NFL on Friday nights so Kahn is good there. And there are just alot more viewers to pull from on a Friday night than a Wednesday night.
> 
> And yes I realize Dynamite would draw 1/3rd to 2/5ths of the viewers than Smackdown does but they would be healthier.


They would be lucky to pull 1/5th the SD numbers head to head. UFC and Bellator got killed head to head with taped Smackdown and quickly moved nights


----------



## virus21

validreasoning said:


> They would be lucky to pull 1/5th the SD numbers head to head. UFC and Bellator got killed head to head with taped Smackdown and quickly moved nights


And you know, Friday


----------



## Dark Emperor

validreasoning said:


> Advertisers have little interest in DVR. Live sport is normally only 1-5% DVR hence it's huge rights fees as everyone is watching live.
> 
> Wwe programming is normally 80-85% live watching and it gets decent rights fees but well below live sports.
> 
> If AEW were doubling their numbers via DVR it should be top listed show on week ratings https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-7-ratings-oct-28-nov-3-2019/
> 
> 
> 
> They would be lucky to pull 1/5th the SD numbers head to head. UFC and Bellator got killed head to head with taped Smackdown and quickly moved nights


No surprise Meltzer is telling lies to bump up AEW numbers without any facts to back it up. Common sense suggests there is no way AEW gets up to 1.4m after DVR figures. Thats basically doubling the rating which is pretty impossible by DVR. Great work on bringing the facts as usual

The AEW fans will eat up that Meltzer stuff though.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> No surprise Meltzer is telling lies to bump up AEW numbers without any facts to back it up. Common sense suggests there is no way AEW gets up to 1.4m after DVR figures. Thats basically doubling the rating which is pretty impossible by DVR. Great work on bringing the facts as usual
> 
> The AEW fans will eat up that Meltzer stuff though.


Meltzer is not the only reporter saying it and he said between 1.2M and 1.4M not exactly 1.4M.

Also he didn't say that like it was a positive thing but more like if AEW does a good enough job they might transform those DVR viewers in live viewers.


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> No surprise Meltzer is telling lies to bump up AEW numbers without any facts to back it up. Common sense suggests there is no way AEW gets up to 1.4m after DVR figures. Thats basically doubling the rating which is pretty impossible by DVR. Great work on bringing the facts as usual
> 
> The AEW fans will eat up that Meltzer stuff though.



To be fair he posted one week from over a month and half ago. Meltzer might have some data we don't know yet. I'm not saying he's right but can't just discount anything he says either.


----------



## rbl85

Raj Giri also reported the same thing (before Meltzer)


----------



## The Masked Avenger

I can't watch every episode live because living in Japan it comes on Thursday morning. I do have a rotating work schedule though so I only miss one live episode a month. However I do DVR everyone and will watch it at least once maybe twice later in the week as well. Plus I have Sling which factors into Neilson Ratings as well.


----------



## domotime2

i hate to be that guy....................

Nah fuck it. Did anyone see that SHIT the WWE just produced? It's a nice reminded of why AEW was and is necessary. Lmao I mean we have people complaining that "too much stuff happens" in AEW threads. Imagine that being an issue for the WWE


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said in the last WOR that AEW is doing big DVR numbers (more than any other wrestling show) and that if you add the live number and the DVR (3-4 day after the show) number you end up with more or less 1.4M (for every episode).
> So that means that the people who watch the first episode didn't stop to watch AEW but some stopped watching it live.
> 
> Now AEW have to find a way to make the people who DVR the show decide to watch it live.


Meltzer is on the payroll and everyone knows this.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Meltzer is on the payroll and everyone knows this.


This is just speculation bro. Don’t pay attention to the WWE shills, only they say this.

It seems like anyone who says anything positive about AEW is on payroll. Even though Melzter has actually criticised AEW a few times, he’s on payroll. So yeah don’t believe the shills bro.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> This is just speculation bro. Don’t pay attention to the WWE shills, only they say this.
> 
> It seems like anyone who says anything positive about AEW is on payroll. Even though Melzter has actually criticised AEW a few times, he’s on payroll. So yeah don’t believe the shills bro.


The funny thing is that he didn't say that having a big DVR number was a good thing but that means that AEW have a potential of +1M of people watching the show live if they do a good enough job to make some of the DVR people watch thr show live.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> The funny thing is that he didn't say that having a big DVR number was a good thing but that means that AEW have a potential of +1M of people watching the show live if they do a good enough job to make some of the DVR people watch thr show live.


Yeah absolutely, why do you watch a live show?

For me it’s to avoid spoilers. But I’ll only hear spoilers through the internet or through friends.

Maybe focus group work could help.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah absolutely, why do you watch a live show?
> 
> For me it’s to avoid spoilers. But I’ll only hear spoilers through the internet or through friends.
> 
> Maybe focus group work could help.


They need a really hot feud.


----------



## The Wood

I don’t think Meltzer is on the payroll, but he’s very clearly biased, wants AEW to succeed and wants the hardcore fans to love him, because they are the ones that are likely to subscribe to his newsletter. And this is fine. It just gets a little annoying when he fudges numbers, sets low expectations of their success for them to smash, conflates data and holds back the context from what he’s saying. Yes, they have a good key demo share, but are they performing as well as they should be with advertisers? He was very silent on their poor PPV retention rate.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Yes, they have a good key demo share, but are they performing as well as they should be with advertisers? He was very silent on their poor PPV retention rate.


According to Tony Khan at Full Gear they are. While there's nothing to state that they aren't.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Yikes! That is not good at all. They haven't had a legitimate (non-scalper backed) sell out since All Out. Interest in the show was already waning when scalpers were not even selling tickets at $6 on the Secondary Market. And it's getting worse and worse.

Right now AEW seems like a hot mess of a company. I really don't see how it could be profitable considering that they are paying pretty much everyone more than they're worth and have limited revenue streams with the current 1 show a week model.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said in the last WOR that AEW is doing big DVR numbers (more than any other wrestling show) and that if you add the live number and the DVR (3-4 day after the show) number you end up with more or less 1.4M (for every episode).
> So that means that the people who watch the first episode didn't stop to watch AEW but some stopped watching it live.
> 
> Now AEW have to find a way to make the people who DVR the show decide to watch it live.


I am guessing this is why they’ll be doing a ton more Picture in Picture

forces DVR people to watch the ads - which makes the ads worth more


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> I don’t think Meltzer is on the payroll, but he’s very clearly biased, wants AEW to succeed and wants the hardcore fans to love him, because they are the ones that are likely to subscribe to his newsletter. And this is fine. It just gets a little annoying when he fudges numbers, sets low expectations of their success for them to smash, conflates data and holds back the context from what he’s saying. Yes, they have a good key demo share, but are they performing as well as they should be with advertisers? He was very silent on their poor PPV retention rate.


Meltzer have been more critical than anybody about the decline in the demo.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206589803594047489
The Go-Home show before the Revolution PPV. Should be a good one.


----------



## rbl85

This arena is less than 6k seats.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> This arena is less than 6k seats.


Which is where their audience is at. Any bigger and folks would be tweeting out empty seat sections. Damned if you do, damned if you don't it seems. 

Full Sail has 400 seats.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I am guessing this is why they’ll be doing a ton more Picture in Picture
> 
> forces DVR people to watch the ads - which makes the ads worth more


What exactly are you basing this on?


That's like saying they can charge more for ads because people who illegally stream the show are forced to watch the ads.


----------



## validreasoning

Dark Emperor said:


> No surprise Meltzer is telling lies to bump up AEW numbers without any facts to back it up. Common sense suggests there is no way AEW gets up to 1.4m after DVR figures. Thats basically doubling the rating which is pretty impossible by DVR. Great work on bringing the facts as usual
> 
> The AEW fans will eat up that Meltzer stuff though.


It's wouldn't be impossible but it would be highly unusual for a live broadcast to double it's numbers with DVR. Live news, sport as mentioned does barely any DVR. Wrestling traditionally be it WWE, tna about 10-20% DVR

There aren't many weekly DVR ratings these days, here is another most recent one. Raw and SD appear an odd time on those lists but as mentioned it's usually 11-15% rises. Total divas sometimes does 40-50% rises via DVR but that's considered reality TV and it doesn't air live https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/dvr-ratings/cable-live-7-ratings-nov-4-10-2019/


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NathanMayberry said:


> What exactly are you basing this on?
> 
> 
> That's like saying they can charge more for ads because people who illegally stream the show are forced to watch the ads.


I’m basing this on

1. Logic
2. Being a tv advertiser for years

if you put action on during the ads, people aren’t going to press ‘forward’ are they? They’re gonna watch the ad while the wrestling is on ?‍♂


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206614068922060807
100k x 35 average maybe? = 3,5m in ticket sales.

disregarding all the merch sales and tv deals and whatnot

i think AEW is doing just fine


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m basing this on
> 
> 1. Logic
> 2. Being a tv advertiser for years
> 
> if you put action on during the ads, people aren’t going to press ‘forward’ are they? They’re gonna watch the ad while the wrestling is on ?‍♂


I'm sure you are. Just like every other IWC member since AEW has come out. 

If what you were saying were logical then literally every show on television would do Picture in Picture commercials. 

TV advertisers don't pay for DVR views and they pay less for ads that are Picture in Picture than regular ads. AEW only does Picture in Picture during their live show to stop the heavy leakage from viewers to NXT during commercials.


----------



## rbl85

NathanMayberry said:


> I'm sure you are. Just like every other IWC member since AEW has come out.
> 
> If what you were saying were logical then literally every show on television would do Picture in Picture commercials.
> 
> TV advertisers don't pay for DVR views and they pay less for ads that are Picture in Picture than regular ads. AEW only does Picture in Picture during their live show to stop the heavy leakage from viewers to NXT during commercials.


AEW is doing the picture in picture because the match really continue during the commercials.

it's not like WWE where they start the commercial with a hold in the middle of the ring and when the commercial is over they're still in a hold.


----------



## rbl85

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206619999437090816
This arena have 21k seats


----------



## RiverFenix

^I might have switched up St. Louis and Atlanta dates to give ATL the go-home show given the arena differences. 

If AEW never happened I wonder if Cody would have been involved with Corgan's NWA relaunch. Seems like he would have been a natural fit. I wonder how much Corgan bought the company for - and why Khan thought starting a new brand would have been better than buying the NWA history as part of his launch.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said in the last WOR that AEW is doing big DVR numbers (more than any other wrestling show) and that if you add the live number and the DVR (3-4 day after the show) number you end up with more or less 1.4M (for every episode).
> So that means that the people who watch the first episode didn't stop to watch AEW but some stopped watching it live.
> 
> Now AEW have to find a way to make the people who DVR the show decide to watch it live.


It would have to be something big that makes them want to watch it live, like mox vs Jericho and since they are a PPV company they probably won't want to do that just to bump the rating. That's what WWE does, they bring in legends and do anniversary shows, but it's not sustainable. It's better they don't do it and just let it grow organically. Those people will tune in live here and there if it suits their schedule or when there are fewer distractions on tv or IRL like holidays. With the way people watch tv today, it's unlikely they convert them to watch live every week.


----------



## RiverFenix

LifeInCattleClass said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206614068922060807
> 100k x 35 average maybe? = 3,5m in ticket sales.
> 
> disregarding all the merch sales and tv deals and whatnot
> 
> i think AEW is doing just fine




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206606582970306564
Interesting no SCU given they're the title holders since winning the tournament. Have the Bucks and Santana/Ortiz. Also no Penta or Fenix. Nyla there is interesting over Britt as well, but at least they were aware enough not to have Brandi on.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> What does DVR'ing it do to TNT's ad revenues? What is the difference watching it live vs taping it and watching it later? Also I suspect more than a few of the live viewers are also DVR'ing it to watch a second time.


people only count for ad rates in the C3 ratings, live plus DVR 3 days, if they watch the actual commercials. The number reported by Dave is probably just the live+3, which is every one that watches the DVR including those that skip the commercials. The C3 rating is going to be lower than the live+3. 
Apart from that, for AEW that is a good sign since obviously they themselves care more than just about the ratings since they are also selling PPV, merch and live event tickets. So the fact that the debut people are still watching one way or another is good for those other revenue streams.


----------



## RiverFenix

Hell, why didn't AEW just hold Revolution in Atlanta? Instead of going back to Chicago for the fourth live televised event in five months.


----------



## RiverFenix

Jonhern said:


> people only count for ad rates in the C3 ratings, live plus DVR 3 days, if they watch the actual commercials. The number reported by Dave is probably just the live+3, which is every one that watches the DVR including those that skip the commercials. The C3 rating is going to be lower than the live+3.
> Apart from that, for AEW that is a good sign since obviously they themselves care more than just about the ratings since they are also selling PPV, merch and live event tickets. So the fact that the debut people are still watching one way or another is good for those other revenue streams.


Would the PIP commercials be a net good or net bad? Probably paid a lot less for them since they share the screen, but also folks can't fast forward by them as the action is still happening on the shared screen. I assume since they're doing PIP that is for the DVR market so they must be seeing a lot of DVR viewership that they want to monetize better.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Hell, why didn't AEW just hold Revolution in Atlanta? Instead of going back to Chicago for the fourth live televised event in five months.


Maybe this arena wasn't available for the date of revolution.


----------



## Jonhern

Dark Emperor said:


> No surprise Meltzer is telling lies to bump up AEW numbers without any facts to back it up. Common sense suggests there is no way AEW gets up to 1.4m after DVR figures. Thats basically doubling the rating which is pretty impossible by DVR. Great work on bringing the facts as usual
> 
> The AEW fans will eat up that Meltzer stuff though.


it's not impossible at all, a lot of shows do way more than that. In the link provided above Its always sunny went up 240%, 3.4x more viewers with DVR vs live. He is likely generalizing too which he has to do, he is not going to go into the particulars for every week, in that week if they went up to 1.4 million then it would be up 84%, which would have put it near the bottom of the chart. But it might have hit a lower number that week. Most other weeks if that was true they would not be on the chart since they would only be going up less than 50%.


----------



## Jonhern

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I am guessing this is why they’ll be doing a ton more Picture in Picture
> 
> forces DVR people to watch the ads - which makes the ads worth more


what's weird is the on-demand does not show those PIP ads, but if people are actually recording then it would which could increase the C3 rating.


----------



## Jonhern

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Would the PIP commercials be a net good or net bad? Probably paid a lot less for them since they share the screen, but also folks can't fast forward by them as the action is still happening on the shared screen. I assume since they're doing PIP that is for the DVR market so they must be seeing a lot of DVR viewership that they want to monetize better.


it would be a net good for the dvr since people would be counted as watching the commercial.


----------



## imthegame19

NathanMayberry said:


> Yikes! That is not good at all. They haven't had a legitimate (non-scalper backed) sell out since All Out. Interest in the show was already waning when scalpers were not even selling tickets at $6 on the Secondary Market. And it's getting worse and worse.
> 
> Right now AEW seems like a hot mess of a company. I really don't see how it could be profitable considering that they are paying pretty much everyone more than they're worth and have limited revenue streams with the current 1 show a week model.



Lol thanks for trolling. Well either you are dumb or trolling. I don't think you understand ticket sales for wrestling in this day and age. If 80 percent of tickets are sold for a show it's above the norm. Put it this way AEW just booked 18,000 seat arena. I don't think their struggling one bit. 


Also they were never going to be profitable in 2019(start up companies and business almost always run at lost for a while) . If things keep at the pace they are going though they should be profitable some time in 2020. Remember TNA took like 6 or 7 years to get out of the red and that Only lasted for a short time. If AEW profitable a year after their first show it will be a major success. What a mess this company is haha. I dunno why I responded when you are clearly trolling or dumb. But these idiotic doom and gloom post get ridiculous lol.


----------



## validreasoning

Without houseshows, only 4 ppvs a year and no tv rights i am not seeing how current business model can be profitable even if they sell out every show.

They don't have their own merch sales either as it's an outside company doing it.

They will need to increase ppvs to at least 10 a year and continue drawing same numbers as now or get big tv deals given the costs


----------



## Chrome

Yeah that's not a good look. No idea why they're going to small ass towns like Corpus Christi in the middle of December when WWE would have trouble selling out there too. I liked their strategy when they 1st started on TNT of going to big cities like DC, Boston, and Philly but having the shows in smaller arenas.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Jonhern said:


> it's not impossible at all, a lot of shows do way more than that. In the link provided above Its always sunny went up 240%, 3.4x more viewers with DVR vs live. He is likely generalizing too which he has to do, he is not going to go into the particulars for every week, in that week if they went up to 1.4 million then it would be up 84%, which would have put it near the bottom of the chart. But it might have hit a lower number that week. Most other weeks if that was true they would not be on the chart since they would only be going up less than 50%.


As validraseaning explained, AEW is closer to a sport than it is a normal series or entertainment show. Those shows do not do anywhere near 100% DVR numbers. The only wrestling related show doing those kind of increase is "Total Divas' which shows you the kind of shows people DvR and watch at leisure. Please send a link where AEW is appearing consistently on the DVR chart then we can agree he has a valid point. 

Otherwise, it's just a way for Meltzer to make an excuse for the stagnant ratings. DvR figures has never been relevant when bringing up Raw and Smackdown ratings, so he's clearly only bringing it up to appease AEW fans. But as usual you guys will point to this as facts and why the live ratings is not an issue.

A more relevant point should be him giving NXT credit for matching AEW numbers recently even though a significant audience watch it later on the WWE network.


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> As validraseaning explained, AEW is closer to a sport than it is a normal series or entertainment show. Those shows do not do anywhere near 100% DVR numbers. The only wrestling related show doing those kind of increase is "Total Divas' which shows you the kind of shows people DvR and watch at leisure. Please send a link where AEW is appearing consistently on the DVR chart then we can agree he has a valid point.
> 
> Otherwise, it's just a way for Meltzer to make an excuse for the stagnant ratings. DvR figures has never been relevant when bringing up Raw and Smackdown ratings, so he's clearly only bringing it up to appease AEW fans. But as usual you guys will point to this as facts and why the live ratings is not an issue.
> 
> A more relevant point should be him giving NXT credit for matching AEW numbers recently even though a significant audience watch it later on the WWE network.



Meltzer not the only one to report it. Also watching NXT on network app is weak argument. TNT has a app too and all AEW shows go on there on-demand app the next day(could be numbers Raj/Dave are including). There's also no reason to give NXT credit for matching AEW. There audience hasn't gotten bigger. 


It's more been AEW coming down to their level. If NXT was doing 850,000 to million plus viewers with demos in high 3s matching AEW each week. That's when you give NXT credit. When AEW doing below that and NXT is tieing or coming close. It's not exactly a good thing for NXT either.


----------



## Dark Emperor

imthegame19 said:


> Lol thanks for trolling. Well either you are dumb or trolling. I don't think you understand ticket sales for wrestling in this day and age. If 80 percent of tickets are sold for a show it's above the norm. Put it this way AEW just booked 18,000 seat arena. I don't think their struggling one bit.
> 
> 
> Also they were never going to be profitable in 2019(start up companies and business almost always run at lost for a while) . If things keep at the pace they are going though they should be profitable some time in 2020. Remember TNA took like 6 or 7 years to get out of the red and that Only lasted for a short time. If AEW profitable a year after their first show it will be a major success. What a mess this company is haha. I dunno why I responded when you are clearly trolling or dumb. But these idiotic doom and gloom post get ridiculous lol.


I'm sorry mate, no chance of profitability in 2020 based on the current model. They are lacking so many revenue streams compared to WWE, its actually laughable. Have a quick look at the WWE financials and see all the way they generate money. AEW need to up there game big time on this front to become self sustainable.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Meltzer not the only one to report it. Also watching NXT on network app is weak argument. TNT has a app too and all AEW shows go on there on-demand app the next day(could be numbers Raj/Dave are including). There's also no reason to give NXT credit for matching AEW. There audience hasn't gotten bigger. It's more been AEW coming down to their level.


Think the point is how some of the numbers being boasted for AEW seem to just became important when AEW came along. Before AEW had TV I don't recall the numbers Raw and SmackDown did on DVR being championed, nor do I remember folk talking about how them doing well in the key demo (which both shows are consistently near the top of) is what's really important. AEW is doing well though all things considered. It's just some of the telling of the numbers seems disingenuous.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NathanMayberry said:


> I'm sure you are. Just like every other IWC member since AEW has come out.
> 
> If what you were saying were logical then literally every show on television would do Picture in Picture commercials.
> 
> TV advertisers don't pay for DVR views and they pay less for ads that are Picture in Picture than regular ads. AEW only does Picture in Picture during their live show to stop the heavy leakage from viewers to NXT during commercials.


Dude.... if 2 and a half men put picture in picture - with no sound on the show, and the sound in the ads playing

how you gonna hear the fucking jokes?

PiP is perfect for sports an wrestling


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> *Think the point is how some of the numbers being boasted for AEW seem to just became important when AEW came along. Before AEW had TV I don't recall the numbers Raw and SmackDown did on DVR being championed,* nor do I remember folk talking about how them doing well in the key demo (which both shows are consistently near the top of) is what's really important. AEW is doing well though all things considered. It's just some of the telling of the numbers seems disingenuous.


why would it be? There was no competition


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Dude.... if 2 and a half men put picture in picture - with no sound on the show, and the sound in the ads playing
> 
> how you gonna hear the fucking jokes?
> 
> PiP is perfect for sports an wrestling


Oh so you not only work in TV advertizing you also are an expert in Sports as well. Cool story bro.


These DVR numbers are coming from the same person that said AEW could have sold 130,000 tickets for just All Out and would have easily sold out Soldier Field, yet here they are celebrating selling 100,000 after like 15 shows as if that's some kind of massive accomplishment, given how much AEW spends on advertizing.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why would it be? There was no competition


Because key demo numbers and DVR numbers existed before October 2nd. Raw and SmackDown have spent the majority of their time as a top ratings getter on their given night in not only the key demo but overall numbers. But how well they did in the key demo and how that's what really matters to networks and advertisers wasn't the conversation.

I've maintained that I think AEW is doing well, and folk who think they aren't are crazy. But some of the numbers being focused on seem like trying to pull positives out of nowhere, given how things were just a few months ago.


----------



## NathanMayberry

LifeInCattleClass said:


> why would it be? There was no competition


TIL Monday Night Football, the most-watched show on Cable is not competition. 
TIL Thursday Night Football or The Voice on Tuesday nights are not competition. 


Please continue to teach us your wisdom Mr. I work in Advertizing.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Think the point is how some of the numbers being boasted for AEW seem to just became important when AEW came along. Before AEW had TV I don't recall the numbers Raw and SmackDown did on *DVR being championed*, nor do I remember folk talking about how them doing well in the key demo (which both shows are consistently near the top of) is what's really important. AEW is doing well though all things considered. It's just some of the telling of the numbers seems disingenuous.


For fuck sake nobody is doing that for AEW….

How is it hard to understand that nobody is happy because AEW does big DVR numbers ?
Meltzer didn't say it was good, nobody did say that but having a big DVR number mean that it's possible to make some people who didn't watch it live until now watch the show live in the future.

It's easier to transform DVR viewers into live viewers than making completely new fans.

The bad faith of some people here...


----------



## shadows123

Dark Emperor said:


> I'm sorry mate, no chance of profitability in 2020 based on the current model. They are lacking so many revenue streams compared to WWE, its actually laughable. Have a quick look at the WWE financials and see all the way they generate money. AEW need to up there game big time on this front to become self sustainable.


The WWE didn't exactly land on all those revenue streams straight off the bat, it takes time.. AEW cannot do the same thing as WWE does now because that's going to take a few years.. And unlike "Billionaire Ted" bankrolling WCW, I don't think they can scale that fast either by gobbling up contracts like in the past, dont think they have that much cash too.. So them taking it kinda slow while growing organically isn't such a bad idea.. Their storytelling seems to be pretty decent considering they write it themselves, the right guy is the champion, the owners are not in it for themselves (like Jeff Jarett or Triple H was) and they dont try to fight the fans like wwe does...SO time will tell how it finally turns out..


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> For fuck sake nobody is doing that for AEW….
> 
> How is it hard to understand that nobody is happy because AEW does big DVR numbers ?
> Meltzer didn't say it was good, nobody did say that but having a big DVR number mean that it's possible to make some people who didn't watch it live until now watch the show live in the future.
> 
> It's easier to transform DVR viewers into live viewers than making completely new fans.
> 
> The bad faith of some people here...


They literally are though go in the Raw or SmackDown ratings threads from before October and see how much time is spent on discussing how them doing good in the key demo is what really matters. Also nobody is happy about DVR numbers yet in this very thread we have you going "oh the DVR number means the folk from the debut didn't stop watching, they just stopped watching live". 



rbl85 said:


> Meltzer said in the last WOR that AEW is doing big DVR numbers (more than any other wrestling show) and that if you add the live number and the DVR (3-4 day after the show) number you end up with more or less 1.4M (for every episode).
> *So that means that the people who watch the first episode didn't stop to watch AEW but some stopped watching it live. *
> 
> Now AEW have to find a way to make the people who DVR the show decide to watch it live.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> Think the point is how some of the numbers being boasted for AEW seem to just became important when AEW came along. Before AEW had TV I don't recall the numbers Raw and SmackDown did on DVR being championed, nor do I remember folk talking about how them doing well in the key demo (which both shows are consistently near the top of) is what's really important. AEW is doing well though all things considered. It's just some of the telling of the numbers seems disingenuous.



That's true, but I don't also don't think ratings were much of a story either. Until started AEW vs NXT started on Wednesday nights. USA and Fox wouldn't have paid what they did for Raw and Smackdown if they weren't doing successful numbers. Despite record low in viewership from years past. There just wasn't a consistent break down on why Raw or Smackdown were doing well.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> They literally are though go in the Raw or SmackDown ratings threads from before October and see how much time is spent on discussing how them doing good in the key demo is what really matters. Also nobody is happy about DVR numbers yet in this very thread we have you going "oh the DVR number means the folk from the debut didn't stop watching, they just stopped watching live".


Let me ask you a question. What is "better", having people who completely stopped watching the show or having people who're still watch the show later in the week but not live ?

No need to be a fucking genius to understand that it's easier to make those people watch the show live in the future than creating new fans.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> That's true, but I don't also don't think ratings were much of a story either. Until started AEW vs NXT started on Wednesday nights. USA and Fox wouldn't have paid what they did for Raw and Smackdown if they weren't doing successful numbers. Despite record low in viewership from years past. There just wasn't a consistent break down on why Raw or Smackdown were doing well.


The ratings were a story they were just a laugh at WWE story and discuss how pissed off USA must be with them story. Then they got 2 big deala and folk couldn't or refused to wrap their head around it. It's just weird to now see folk so knowledgeable on what cable companies and advertisers care about, when last year it was cluelessness


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> Let me ask you a question. What is "better", having people who completely stopped watching the show or having people who're still watch the show later in the week but not live ?
> 
> No need to be a fucking genius to understand that it's easier to make those people watch the show live in the future than creating new fans.


You're missing my point. I'm not saying anything about DVR numbers. I'm talking about the fact that once again folk are finding new numbers to care about since it's AEW. Because again just like key demo numbers very little discussion was going on about DVR ratings when the ratings threads were just Raw and SmackDown.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> Let me ask you a question. What is "better", having people who completely stopped watching the show or having people who're still watch the show later in the week but not live ?
> 
> No need to be a fucking genius to understand that it's easier to make those people watch the show live in the future than creating new fans.


The fact that literally all aspects of their business is declining right now, it is clear they do not have the same audience they did when they debuted. DVR existed then too.


----------



## imthegame19

NathanMayberry said:


> Oh so you not only work in TV advertizing you also are an expert in Sports as well. Cool story bro.
> 
> 
> These DVR numbers are coming from the same person that said AEW could have sold 130,000 tickets for just All Out and would have easily sold out Soldier Field, yet here they are celebrating selling 100,000 after like 15 shows as if that's some kind of massive accomplishment, given how much AEW spends on advertizing.


There was a massive demand for All Out. They could have sold out Soldier Field. That's 60,000 seat stadium and at the time there was a demand for it. When you do a show every week it makes your product less special and shows less big of a deal. 


There's a reason why Double Or Nothing and All Out not just sold out but in minutes. That's because huge demand from fans to have to be at those shows. People were traveling across the county to be at those shows. Now people can watch AEW on tv every week and wait for them to come to their town.


Anyways let's not be a clown and belittle what AEW did. Selling 100,000 plus tickets in 15 shows hasn't been done from wrestling non WWE wrestling company in 20 years (WCW wasn't even doing that their last year). For a brand new company to do that. Well they deserve praise from even a clown like yourself.


----------



## imthegame19

NathanMayberry said:


> The fact that literally all aspects of their business is declining right now, it is clear they do not have the same audience they did when they debuted. DVR existed then too.


If attendance and t.v. ratings are all aspects of decline. Then WWE must have lost their audience too. Considering they lost almost 2 million viewers from Smackdown debut. Or like AEW they are watching on demand or dvr when they have time. Or just watching highlights on YouTube etc certain weeks.


----------



## imthegame19

validreasoning said:


> Without houseshows, only 4 ppvs a year and no tv rights i am not seeing how current business model can be profitable even if they sell out every show.
> 
> They don't have their own merch sales either as it's an outside company doing it.
> 
> They will need to increase ppvs to at least 10 a year and continue drawing same numbers as now or get big tv deals given the costs


It's really hard to say. We know so little about the wrestlers contracts, tv deal with TNT etc. Plus according to Tony Khan metrics house shows don't make you money in this day and age. TNA became profitable in 2009 doing shows out of Impact Zone every week with no paid attendance. 


They had many high priced talent on the books and ppvs were cheaper doing no where near what AEW. Their revenue was their tv deal and merchandise. But it's not like their tv deal was huge either. So I need more info on why they cant.


Businessmen like the Khan family and especially numbers guy like Tony Khan know way more about making money then any of us. This Dixie Carter running things here. Who was more of a sales woman and knew very little about numbers and business. If Shad Khan doing interviews saying he's surprised at how well they are doing. Well it must be falling pretty close to Tony business plan.


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> I'm sorry mate, no chance of profitability in 2020 based on the current model. They are lacking so many revenue streams compared to WWE, its actually laughable. Have a quick look at the WWE financials and see all the way they generate money. AEW need to up there game big time on this front to become self sustainable.


Again based on what? Please give me some data or info that would suggest they can't. Do you really think Tony Khan business model that showed he would be profitable in 2020. Had them selling out every show? Or doing over 1 million viewers each week? That wouldn't be realistic. Again TNA showed a wrestling company can be profitable. Without doing huge WWE like numbers. If they don't blow it and make bad decisions.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

BrInG OuT tHe TaRpS









TaRp-a-MaNiA


----------



## rbl85

.


----------



## Dark Emperor

shadows123 said:


> The WWE didn't exactly land on all those revenue streams straight off the bat, it takes time.. AEW cannot do the same thing as WWE does now because that's going to take a few years.. And unlike "Billionaire Ted" bankrolling WCW, I don't think they can scale that fast either by gobbling up contracts like in the past, dont think they have that much cash too.. So them taking it kinda slow while growing organically isn't such a bad idea.. Their storytelling seems to be pretty decent considering they write it themselves, the right guy is the champion, the owners are not in it for themselves (like Jeff Jarett or Triple H was) and they dont try to fight the fans like wwe does...SO time will tell how it finally turns out..


I agree it will take time, that's why i was disagreeing with the guy expecting profitability in 2020. That's not gonna happen at this point. Just the contract of Mox, Jericho and Elite guys alone will be taking a large chunk of revenue in these early years.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Let me ask you a question. What is "better", having people who completely stopped watching the show or having people who're still watch the show later in the week but not live ?
> 
> No need to be a fucking genius to understand that it's easier to make those people watch the show live in the future than creating new fans.


But who tells you that the dvr numbers are not just the same people watching live and dvring the show? I really doubt that these are all „not watched live“ people.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Because key demo numbers and DVR numbers existed before October 2nd. Raw and SmackDown have spent the majority of their time as a top ratings getter on their given night in not only the key demo but overall numbers. But how well they did in the key demo and how that's what really matters to networks and advertisers wasn't the conversation.
> 
> I've maintained that I think AEW is doing well, and folk who think they aren't are crazy. But some of the numbers being focused on seem like trying to pull positives out of nowhere, given how things were just a few months ago.


I’m saying, before all this - who cared about ratings?

only like 20 yrs ago - now that there is a reason to care, and metrics have changed - of course people are going to discuss new things

also, lies, lies and statistics

we both know you can twist any number to substantiate your own case - in the world of online arguments which don’t matter, why not use every tool at your disposal?


----------



## shadows123

Dark Emperor said:


> I agree it will take time, that's why i was disagreeing with the guy expecting profitability in 2020. That's not gonna happen at this point. Just the contract of Mox, Jericho and Elite guys alone will be taking a large chunk of revenue in these early years.


THey do have a lot of unknown undercard..And Elite may not yet be cashing out so maybe its theoretically possible? Jericho may also be on a similar deal as the Elite, you never know.. But generally ya its too early for a start up to make a profit...And they seem to be on the right trajectory and not like the panic which so many posts are expressing..


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NathanMayberry said:


> Oh so you not only work in TV advertizing you also are an expert in Sports as well. Cool story bro.
> 
> 
> These DVR numbers are coming from the same person that said AEW could have sold 130,000 tickets for just All Out and would have easily sold out Soldier Field, yet here they are celebrating selling 100,000 after like 15 shows as if that's some kind of massive accomplishment, given how much AEW spends on advertizing.


I used to advertise on tv - not anymore, for some time. Online only now.

you’re getting awfully worked up over this. My only point was, they are doing PiP in order to hopefully make their ads worth more to advertisers with the narrative ‘people aren’t forwarding this show’ - why wouldn’t they? Marketing 101

ps> i never claimed to be an expert in sports
pps> this is such a weird discussion


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> But who tells you that the dvr numbers are not just the same people watching live and dvring the show? I really doubt that these are all „not watched live“ people.


Well even if half of the DVR number is people who watched the show live that's still a lot of people not watching the show live.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> I’m saying, before all this - who cared about ratings?
> 
> only like 20 yrs ago - now that there is a reason to care, and metrics have changed - of course people are going to discuss new things
> 
> also, lies, lies and statistics
> 
> we both know you can twist any number to substantiate your own case - in the world of online arguments which don’t matter, why not use every tool at your disposal?


Oh I definitely agree folk pick and choose when numbers and stuff matter. It's similar to how Meltzer's credibility hinges on whether he supports or is against an argument. But like I said the think they're doing great as it's a new company and its wrestling. Just think some of the extra comprehensive look they're getting compared to what was going on 5 months ago is funny.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

NathanMayberry said:


> TIL Monday Night Football, the most-watched show on Cable is not competition.
> TIL Thursday Night Football or The Voice on Tuesday nights are not competition.
> 
> 
> Please continue to teach us your wisdom Mr. I work in Advertizing.


sigh.... i thought Canadians were nice 

not any competition any wrestling fan cared about ?‍♂

otherwise we might as well throw in Hannity and Tucker Carlson and just blow everything out of the water

Some of us never went into the ratings threads of WWE y’know? And could not give two shits about their ratings on any night

this AEW / NXT thing is anecdotal at best, a bit of fun at worst

you‘re going into this discussion hard without lube like you’ve got shares in some of these companies.

and this discussion is just gonna end with you going RRRRRRREEEEEEE, and me ignoring you cause you don‘t make any valid points worth discussing in a manner that is worth the discourse - and then you feeling superior because you won some imaginary online battle that really just took place in your head

but hey.... wrestling, amirite?

edit: wait... joined 2 months ago. just found this forum, did you? Fucking rejoiners man


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> Oh I definitely agree folk pick and choose when numbers and stuff matter. It's similar to how Meltzer's credibility hinges on whether he supports or is against an argument. But like I said the think they're doing great as it's a new company and its wrestling. Just think some of the extra comprehensive look they're getting compared to what was going on 5 months ago is funny.


Fans are gonna fan mate 

besides, Dave has little to zero credibility - he gets facts, and then tacks on his opinion in the same breath, which make them sounds like ‘facts’ too, but is just hot takes - i think we all know that by now

the DVR thing is just interesting. And i do think its why they are doing more PiP - that is about the long and short of my opinion on it really ?‍♂

Dave, just like Cornette and Russo has their own little pack of zealots - people who run around and can’t wait to find someone to agree with them.

if someone is so married to the validation of other people’s opinion, they need to have some introspection IMO


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> I agree it will take time, that's why i was disagreeing with the guy expecting profitability in 2020. That's not gonna happen at this point. Just the contract of Mox, Jericho and Elite guys alone will be taking a large chunk of revenue in these early years.


Again we don't know their contracts. They only work one day a week. Per show or per appearance they could be making good money. But overall that doesn't mean it's huge money overall.

Four VPs are making wrestler and executive salaries. So combined it's good money but that also means they are saving on booking team. 


While Moxley making money from big New Japan shows and he also filmed a movie on his off days. Jericho making money from New Japan big shows, his band and podcast. So all six guys are doing well but I don't think it's as much as people think. 


When you consider they are probably working less then 60 dates a year. With free time also allowing them to make money outside of AEW. Like being a dentist lol.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> You're missing my point. I'm not saying anything about DVR numbers. I'm talking about the fact that once again folk are finding new numbers to care about since it's AEW. Because again just like key demo numbers very little discussion was going on about DVR ratings when the ratings threads were just Raw and SmackDown.


Those same people still won't except that it's the demo that matters so wtf is your point? Some of us were talking about the demo before, so stop generalizing. I was one that was saying no fox and USA aren't mad about total viewers because the demo is still good and the show is actually cheap when you really break down the costs per hour. Recently they were probably not happy because the demo was dropping more than total viewers but raw and sdl still perform well compared to the rest of cable. Just because marks over on the raw ratings thread like to laugh at total viewers doesn't mean others don't understand how this actually works and it didn't start because of aew.


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> Those same people still won't except that it's the demo that matters so wtf is your point? Some of us were talking about the demo before, so stop generalizing. I was one that was saying no fox and USA aren't mad about total viewers because the demo is still good and the show is actually cheap when you really break down the costs per hour. Recently they were probably not happy because the demo was dropping more than total viewers but raw and sdl still perform well compared to the rest of cable. Just because marks over on the raw ratings thread like to laugh at total viewers doesn't mean others don't understand how this actually works and it didn't start because of aew.


Let's keep it a buck we both know all this demo talk wasn't a thing 4 months ago. You can take the "but I was talking demos" stance that's irrelevant to my point. I'm talking in general. Nobody discussed a group by talking individual opinions get real.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Let's keep it a buck we both know all this demo talk wasn't a thing 4 months ago. You can take the "but I was talking demos" stance that's irrelevant to my point. I'm talking in general. Nobody discussed a group by talking individual opinions get real.


And again just because others are idiots doesn't mean we here have to continue that, just because most people in the raw thread talk about one thing doesnt make it more important or correct. Maybe it took aew for some to come around to reading these numbers correctly as some of us have been saying for some time, better late than never. Just imagine if everyone still believed the earth was the center of the universe, because no one was talking about the sun being the center until this Galileo came around.


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> And again just because others are idiots doesn't mean we here have to continue that, just because most people in the raw thread talk about one thing doesnt make it more important or correct. Maybe it took aew for some to come around to reading these numbers correctly as some of us have been saying for some time, better late than never.


But the thing is primary focus being on key demo is still just an AEW thread thing. SDL is prime example of that


----------



## RKing85

I don't think AEW can be profitable until the next tv deal. I hope I am wrong and would love for them to be profitable sooner, but I think that will be the case. Khan knows this and planned for it.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> But the thing is primary focus being on key demo is still just an AEW thread thing. SDL is prime example of that


Because WWE Stan's are self loathing, I mean at the same time they love when wwe fails but also don't want any competition for them. So yeah they focus on the total viewers because its not the same as the 90s disregarding how much cable TV has changed in the last 20 years. which is why they were all wrong about the new contracts and why they will be wrong about fox moving sdl to fs1, some even think they will outright cancel sdl lol. bad data in equals bad data out. If they actually talked about the demo like some of us have been doing with wwe they would have had better predictions and correct analysis.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> But the thing is primary focus being on key demo is still just an AEW thread thing. SDL is prime example of that


To be fair AEW doesn't get paid millions by 50-250 million a year by network their t.v. deal. They might have some guarantee money to protect them and cover cost. But we know a lot of their revenue is gonna come from commercials. Well having success with 18-49 year old audience is key for them and ad revenue.


So that could be way it gets talked about more. Plus even if you go to Showbuzzdaily site. They rank the cable shows how they do in 18-49 demos. So if people are claiming one show won and another lost. Well that is flawed if demos are opposite.


I really don't think Meltzer is one AEW payroll or even bias towards the company. I think it has more to do with so many WWE fanboys trolling him. Since hes critical of WWE and hoping for AEW to be successful. So trolls bash him(for being supportive of the company) and act like sky is falling if they don't sell out shows or ratings drop. 

So he gets in Twitter arguments with these trolls or fanboys who are saying ridiculous comments about them being failure etc. Since what their saying to him is bunch of nonsense he goes into defense mode. Which can look like hes bias toward AEW. But If you actually listen to his review of the shows he's critical on plenty of stuff he doesn't like.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> There was a massive demand for All Out. They could have sold out Soldier Field. That's 60,000 seat stadium and at the time there was a demand for it. When you do a show every week it makes your product less special and shows less big of a deal.
> 
> 
> There's a reason why Double Or Nothing and All Out not just sold out but in minutes. That's because huge demand from fans to have to be at those shows. People were traveling across the county to be at those shows. Now people can watch AEW on tv every week and wait for them to come to their town.
> 
> 
> Anyways let's not be a clown and belittle what AEW did. Selling 100,000 plus tickets in 15 shows hasn't been done from wrestling non WWE wrestling company in 20 years (WCW wasn't even doing that their last year). For a brand new company to do that. Well they deserve praise from even a clown like yourself.


There's always the flip-side to your points here too. I mean, yeah, fans were suped-stoked and willing to travel for show #1 and #2, but the reality is that they have to do show #63 and #64 at some point, which means they need to find a way to attract a much larger and diverse audience. So far there is just no evidence of that. 

You're right -- it hasn't been done in 20 years. Remember why? It's because the last promotion doing it got so stubborn and bone-headed in their broken philosophies that they ended up having the plug pulled out on them and Vince McMahon was handed a virtual monopoly over wrestling. It's not so much an _achievement_ they did this, so much as it is a _symptom_. 



imthegame19 said:


> If attendance and t.v. ratings are all aspects of decline. Then WWE must have lost their audience too. Considering they lost almost 2 million viewers from Smackdown debut. Or like AEW they are watching on demand or dvr when they have time. Or just watching highlights on YouTube etc certain weeks.


And this is a problem. It's just that it's pointed out as a problem when it is WWE, but when it is AEW the mental gymnastics come in. And I get it -- people like one group and not the other. They're allowed to be hypocrites on this. But it doesn't mean that it's incorrect to point out the hypocrisy. 



RapShepard said:


> Oh I definitely agree folk pick and choose when numbers and stuff matter. It's similar to how Meltzer's credibility hinges on whether he supports or is against an argument. But like I said the think they're doing great as it's a new company and its wrestling. Just think some of the extra comprehensive look they're getting compared to what was going on 5 months ago is funny.


It's really cool to see people call out the double-standards applied to ratings and the like. 



LifeInCattleClass said:


> sigh.... i thought Canadians were nice
> 
> not any competition any wrestling fan cared about ?‍♂
> 
> otherwise we might as well throw in Hannity and Tucker Carlson and just blow everything out of the water
> 
> Some of us never went into the ratings threads of WWE y’know? And could not give two shits about their ratings on any night
> 
> this AEW / NXT thing is anecdotal at best, a bit of fun at worst
> 
> you‘re going into this discussion hard without lube like you’ve got shares in some of these companies.
> 
> and this discussion is just gonna end with you going RRRRRRREEEEEEE, and me ignoring you cause you don‘t make any valid points worth discussing in a manner that is worth the discourse - and then you feeling superior because you won some imaginary online battle that really just took place in your head
> 
> but hey.... wrestling, amirite?
> 
> edit: wait... joined 2 months ago. just found this forum, did you? Fucking rejoiners man


How about actually engaging instead of projecting onto someone and trying to offset their argument by implying that they're going to ignore you before they do? 

It's also fine for people to be interested in business metrics. Just because people don't have shares doesn't mean they don't find this interesting. It's a bit of a misdirection tactic on your behalf to set that up. If you don't find their business metrics interesting, maybe get out of the business metric thread? 



Jonhern said:


> Those same people still won't except that it's the demo that matters so wtf is your point? Some of us were talking about the demo before, so stop generalizing. I was one that was saying no fox and USA aren't mad about total viewers because the demo is still good and the show is actually cheap when you really break down the costs per hour. Recently they were probably not happy because the demo was dropping more than total viewers but raw and sdl still perform well compared to the rest of cable. Just because marks over on the raw ratings thread like to laugh at total viewers doesn't mean others don't understand how this actually works and it didn't start because of aew.


You're way too archaic in your key demo stance, to the point that you nail down on "it's the only thing that matters." That's not true. Especially in 2019/2020 with how people consume content. It's ironically a very Meltzer-from-the-90's perspective, which I say is ironic because I see you shooting down people for using him as a reference point.


----------



## roadkill_

RKing85 said:


> I don't think AEW can be profitable until the next tv deal. I hope I am wrong and would love for them to be profitable sooner, but I think that will be the case. Khan knows this and planned for it.


That's three years away. Which IIRC, is the same length of time it took WCW to turn a profit (1993?).


----------



## Dark Emperor

shadows123 said:


> THey do have a lot of unknown undercard..And Elite may not yet be cashing out so maybe its theoretically possible? Jericho may also be on a similar deal as the Elite, you never know.. But generally ya its too early for a start up to make a profit...And they seem to be on the right trajectory and not like the panic which so many posts are expressing..


Jericho said this is the best paid contract he's ever signed. So did JR. AEW got Kenny whilst WWE made him an offer, so even if he didn't want to go, that leverage will have got him a sweet deal. Mox is used to big WWE money so he aint signing for peanuts.

I think the big initial outlay is already why AEW have said they won't be paying out big money contracts and get into a bidding war with WWE for big names. They can't afford to if they want to be self sustainable in a reasonably short period.


----------



## shadows123

Dark Emperor said:


> Jericho said this is the best paid contract he's ever signed. So did JR. AEW got Kenny whilst WWE made him an offer, so even if he didn't want to go, that leverage will have got him a sweet deal. Mox is used to big WWE money so he aint signing for peanuts.
> 
> I think the big initial outlay is already why AEW have said they won't be paying out big money contracts and get into a bidding war with WWE for big names. They can't afford to if they want to be self sustainable in a reasonably short period.


Ya they do tell that.. Surely they can't say "I signed for the creative freedom" can they? Plus Jericho wanted this deal with his cruise and all which was essentially what he was after and that's what he probably got in a deal similar to Cody as an investor with other interests. But I agree Moxley would be on big money and he should considering he is their huge draw. But my general expectation with them if they go on this current trajectory and their current way of booking (instead of the WCW style) is that they will be profitable when the next TV deal comes around. Next year seems a little early.

Plus they cannot get into a bidding war with WWE. WWE has far more money, far bigger brand name and far bigger perks. Having a billionaire owner does not mean AEW has billions to throw. Most pro wrestlers today are devoid of any creativity and don't have any characters to bring to the table. So signing with WWE who are most likely to pay out is not surprising. Them being picky and signing the right people is totally fine. For example them overpaying for Jon Moxley or Jericho is totally worth it but not everyone is like them.


----------



## shadows123

This week's going to be a real test for AEW as WWE is going title match up front without commercials.. Of course knowing WWE, they will most likely have commercials anyways but this is like AEW has lit a fire up Vince's ass and he does not like to lose ?


----------



## The Wood

shadows123 said:


> This week's going to be a real test for AEW as WWE is going title match up front without commercials.. Of course knowing WWE, they will most likely have commercials anyways but this is like AEW has lit a fire up Vince's ass and he does not like to lose ?


That’s a fair point, and what exactly can AEW counterpoint it with?

I do think that, to an extent, hardcore fans are going to be stubborn supporting AEW even after they have largely lost interest. I think AEW dropping ground to NXT, for example, is going to bring a lot of people back. At first. But I do think the tide is changing, _and you could see it a mile away._ AEW should have had things up their sleeve.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> *That’s a fair point, and what exactly can AEW counterpoint it with?*
> 
> I do think that, to an extent, hardcore fans are going to be stubborn supporting AEW even after they have largely lost interest. I think AEW dropping ground to NXT, for example, is going to bring a lot of people back. At first. But I do think the tide is changing, _and you could see it a mile away._ AEW should have had things up their sleeve.


They're not going to counter it.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> They're not going to counter it.


Their mere existence is a counter. AEW is a thing because of a perceived gap in the market.


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Their mere existence is a counter. AEW is a thing because of a perceived gap in the market.


What i mean is that the match who's going to open AEW did not change when NXT announce that Cole vs Balor will be without commercials.


----------



## shadows123

The Wood said:


> That’s a fair point, and what exactly can AEW counterpoint it with?
> 
> I do think that, to an extent, hardcore fans are going to be stubborn supporting AEW even after they have largely lost interest. I think AEW dropping ground to NXT, for example, is going to bring a lot of people back. At first. But I do think the tide is changing, _and you could see it a mile away._ AEW should have had things up their sleeve.


They cannot do much, can they... NXT has the financial might of the WWE behind them...Even if WWE doesn't move their main stars to NXT, they still could do other things like sacrificing Ad revenues, plugging NXT all across their platforms etc....Ever since the start, WWE has tried really hard to screw with AEW, deciding Wednesdays, putting a takeover calibre show first episode, Putting an invasion angle etc. So at best, AEW can only put their best foot forward, put a compelling show, (which they do for the most part, there are some rough edges of course. But then again, there is no perfect show around anywhere. ) Other than that, its going to be hard to compete.. But then again, we thought the same with WCW at first, but a show considering cool as compared to the extent of bad will WWE has gathered over the years, It may be an interesting next one year or so and I think AEW with their current trajectory can definitely be around as viable competition...NXT can try their best but they are even short on character draws than AEW are and its bound to show at some point...


----------



## shandcraig

Is AEW making the same mistakes as tna trying to be bigger than they are? I feel these arena decision's are codys and he cant get past his head. I would wat rather they go in half the arena size that sell iut than half a arena full. Its a brand new company, i dont get why they need to pretend and rent such massive ones. Now going to Atlanta in the state farm? Are they insane. Now that being said who knows how the market will be but theres such a thing as tickets inflation to your size. If you're in such big venues you're not bringing that demand to your size. A new band never starts this big a new mma company never starts this big.


Instead of trying to built itself and be something its out the door trying to compete with wwe. Same thing tna did.

Letting ego run things. I hope for the sake of all of us fans this does not back fire like it did for tna as they contiued for years to do this tactic. Wcw was in smaller venues than what aew is doing for years and they already had a lot of history before it even became wcw.

I want them to do this right. Just seeing a lot of ego showing and thats also what was Dixie draw back


----------



## reyfan

is there an updated version of that image? I have no idea where they got it from and can't find it on the AEW site where you can see available seats.


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> Because WWE Stan's are self loathing, I mean at the same time they love when wwe fails but also don't want any competition for them. So yeah they focus on the total viewers because its not the same as the 90s disregarding how much cable TV has changed in the last 20 years. which is why they were all wrong about the new contracts and why they will be wrong about fox moving sdl to fs1, some even think they will outright cancel sdl lol. bad data in equals bad data out. If they actually talked about the demo like some of us have been doing with wwe they would have had better predictions and correct analysis.


This is a fair point. A lot are definitely stuck on thinking that anything not close to ratings of the MNW war are a failure when that's just not the case.


imthegame19 said:


> To be fair AEW doesn't get paid millions by 50-250 million a year by network their t.v. deal. They might have some guarantee money to protect them and cover cost. But we know a lot of their revenue is gonna come from commercials. Well having success with 18-49 year old audience is key for them and ad revenue.
> 
> 
> So that could be way it gets talked about more. Plus even if you go to Showbuzzdaily site. They rank the cable shows how they do in 18-49 demos. So if people are claiming one show won and another lost. Well that is flawed if demos are opposite.
> 
> 
> I really don't think Meltzer is one AEW payroll or even bias towards the company. I think it has more to do with so many WWE fanboys trolling him. Since hes critical of WWE and hoping for AEW to be successful. So trolls bash him(for being supportive of the company) and act like sky is falling if they don't sell out shows or ratings drop.
> 
> So he gets in Twitter arguments with these trolls or fanboys who are saying ridiculous comments about them being failure etc. Since what their saying to him is bunch of nonsense he goes into defense mode. Which can look like hes bias toward AEW. But If you actually listen to his review of the shows he's critical on plenty of stuff he doesn't like.


I don't think Dave is on the payroll, but from what j see posted second hand he comes of preferential at the least and bias at worst. But I don't actually engage with his content personally so maybe folk just cherry pick his stuff. But at least from 2nd hand dealings it felt like he was on a big NJPW kick and traded that in for AEW. Though again I don't follow him so I don't really know.


----------



## rbl85

Dave is more critical of what AEW is doing wrong than any of us (AEW fans) on this forum.

You really have to listen to his podcast to understand that when AEW does something bad he say it. Also if i remember correctly not too long ago he said that in terms of in-ring quality is top 3 was NJPW - NXT - AEW.


----------



## Deathiscoming

I'm here following the (closed?) "Do you think AEW ratings are good?" Thread. To answer that question:-

I think AEW are getting MORE viewers than they deserve (at 600-850K), which is a BAD thing. The rating itself may seem "good" or "alright" but do they deserve it? Hell no! Their show is 80-90% unwatchable for the most part, based on the wrestlers/talent alone. They should've started with a 1-hour weekly TV show like TNA did in its initial years.

To prove that I am unbiased, I'll also say Smackdown right now sucks so bad that they should actually be getting only 1.2 M viewers but they're getting 2.3-2.5M viewers! That's not a good thing, that's a BAD thing. A completely shit show with a boring, stale Roman stuck with an absolutely boring, atrocious gimmicky King Corbin(when Corbin could instead have been a badass rather than laughing at a dog mascot, dog food segments etc), the tag division is both stale and horrendous with the same old Revival and New Day, and the Fiend being an absolute joke of a guy masquerading as champion. Bray Wyatt, Fiend, Miz, the women... All channel changers.

So yeah, SD should be getting only 1.2M at best, and AEW, 400K viewers..and I'm being generous. How anyone watches Smackdown or Dynamite is beyond me.


----------



## IamMark

reyfan said:


> is there an updated version of that image? I have no idea where they got it from and can't find it on the AEW site where you can see available seats.


zoom in to see the available seats



https://www1.ticketmaster.com/all-elite-wrestling/event/3A005742E82B4700


----------



## reyfan

IamMark said:


> zoom in to see the available seats
> 
> 
> 
> https://www1.ticketmaster.com/all-elite-wrestling/event/3A005742E82B4700


Ahh thanks I was on that site but didn't know to zoom in, thanks


----------



## rbl85

Sure…..


----------



## Taroostyles

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Hell, why didn't AEW just hold Revolution in Atlanta? Instead of going back to Chicago for the fourth live televised event in five months.


Theres a few reasons why this could be possible. The 1st one is that AEW is partnering with C2E2 which is the biggest gaming and pop culture expo in the Midwest, we saw a similar situation with Fyterfest and this is an even bigger event. 

2nd is that ATL couldn't be an option on that date as the Atlanta Hawks have a home game that night. 3rd is that they are obviously still navigating their PPV market, the show in Chicago will undoubtedly sell out and be an awesome crowd. 

I do agree that they need to visit more cities for PPVs but this was the safe play.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Dave is more critical of what AEW is doing wrong than any of us (AEW fans) on this forum.
> 
> You really have to listen to his podcast to understand that when AEW does something bad he say it. Also if i remember correctly not too long ago he said that in terms of in-ring quality is top 3 was NJPW - NXT - AEW.


This exactly. He only defends the business side of things. When trolls or WWE fanboys tweet at him saying stupid sky is falling stuff and pretend like AEW not been a major success so far.


----------



## rbl85

The last show AEW did in Chicago got nearly 7K people in the arena and it was just after SS, Takeover and the RAW, SD shows.

So they're going to sold out the PPV quite quickly.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> This is a fair point. A lot are definitely stuck on thinking that anything not close to ratings of the MNW war are a failure when that's just not the case. I don't think Dave is on the payroll, but from what j see posted second hand he comes of preferential at the least and bias at worst. But I don't actually engage with his content personally so maybe folk just cherry pick his stuff. But at least from 2nd hand dealings it felt like he was on a big NJPW kick and traded that in for AEW. Though again I don't follow him so I don't really know.


He doesn't just tweet random stuff to praise AEW. It's always him responding to Twitter trolls. That makes him come off as AEW bias. Trolls are pushing false things and he replies explaining why they are wrong. It you just see his comments it comes off as him praising AEW. But he wouldn't do it if he wasn't getting trolled by WWE fanboys consistently.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> The last show AEW did in Chicago got nearly 7K people in the arena and it was just after SS, Takeover and the RAW, SD shows.
> 
> So they're going to sold out the PPV quite quickly.


I gotta work Friday when tickets go on sale. So I just hope tickets are still available when I get home at 5:30. I didn't get to go to All Out or Dynamite due to All Out selling out so fast and having to work late on t.v. shows. I really would love to see Moxley/ Jericho title match live.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> I gotta work Friday when tickets go on sale. So I just hope tickets are still available when I get home at 5:30. I didn't get to go to All Out or Dynamite due to All Out selling out so fast and having to work late on t.v. shows. I really would love to see Moxley/ Jericho title match live.


Quite a few tickets will be on StubHub.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> He doesn't just tweet random stuff to praise AEW. It's always him responding to Twitter trolls. That makes him come off as AEW bias. Trolls are pushing false things and he replies explaining why they are wrong. It you just see his comments it comes off as him praising AEW. But he wouldn't do it if he wasn't getting trolled by WWE fanboys consistently.


Fair enough then, as I said I don't follow him. I just heard about him 2nd hand


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> There's always the flip-side to your points here too. I mean, yeah, fans were suped-stoked and willing to travel for show #1 and #2, but the reality is that they have to do show #63 and #64 at some point, which means they need to find a way to attract a much larger and diverse audience. So far there is just no evidence of that.
> 
> You're right -- it hasn't been done in 20 years. Remember why? It's because the last promotion doing it got so stubborn and bone-headed in their broken philosophies that they ended up having the plug pulled out on them and Vince McMahon was handed a virtual monopoly over wrestling. It's not so much an _achievement_ they did this, so much as it is a _symptom_.


It takes time to build up and audience. AEW audience is only so big right now and doing weekly show to cause ups and downs. There's not enough wrestlers on the show that they know or care about yet. That's why when they first started it did a big rating with people curious. That happens when a new show starts. We saw that first week or two new show spike with NXT and Smackdown too. Realistically AEW might be going between 750-950 in viewers for six months to a year before they start to have growth.


As for WWE monopoly you realize there has been other wrestling companies? The fact that TNA couldnt come close to doing what AEW done with ticket sales and ppv buys etc. Even though at one point they had Angle, Sting, Foley, Hogan, Flair, RVD, Jarrett, Booker T, Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and a lot more. Yet AEW right off the bat with less big names is doing these numbers is amazing. I'm sorry but your dislike for the company is clearly clouding your judgement on what a major success they been so far.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Quite a few tickets will be on StubHub.


Yeah All Out was going for more then triple market value. I thought about paying it but when Moxley/Omega match got cancelled I decided not to. I don't think this show will be as hot a ticket as All Out tho.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah All Out was going for more then triple market value. I thought about paying it but when Moxley/Omega match got cancelled I decided not to. I don't think this show will be as hot a ticket as All Out tho.


Well if you wait a bit the prices will go down


----------



## RainmakerV2

If you dont think Meltzer is at least biased towards AEW, you're legit not a smart human being, and Ill leave it at that.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> If you dont think Meltzer is at least biased towards AEW, you're legit not a smart human being, and Ill leave it at that.


If you think that we give a fuck about your opinion, you're legit not a smart human being and i'll leave it at that.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> If you think that we a fuck about your opinion, you're legit not a smart human being and i'll leave it at that.


Lol. I didnt see where I asked you to care, but good to know you get that offended over Dave Meltzer lmao.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol. I didnt see where I asked you to care, but good to know you get that offended over Dave Meltzer lmao.


I find funny that when Metlzer say something positif about AEW then that mean he's biased and don't like the WWE but when he's nearly the only one defending the ratings of Raw and SD or when he clearly say that since AEW started he prefered the in ring action of NXT..... strangely nobody talk about it


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> I find funny that when Metlzer say something positif about AEW then that mean he's biased and don't like the WWE but when he's nearly the only one defending the ratings of Raw and SD or when he clearly say that since AEW started he prefered the in ring action of NXT..... strangely nobody talk about it


Dude. If you think there isnt a natural bias towards a company that 3 of his friends are EVPs of, I can't help you.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Dude. If you think there isnt a natural bias towards a company that 3 of his friends are EVPs of, I can't help you.


Dude. If you read his newsletters or listened to his podcast then you'll know that it's not the case.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Dude. If you read his newsletters or listened to his podcast then you'll know that it's not the case.



Of course he's not gonna write it or come out and openly say it. Sweet Jesus. Whatever. Its like talking to a brick wall. Guy gets paid to be a journalist, has a company run by his friends in said business, but doesnt have any bias towards said company because he doesn't openly say so on his podcast. Okay. You win. Im dumb.


----------



## The XL 2

AEW took the wind out of their own sails very quickly. A shame, they had a lot of momentum. But instead of trying to be an actual wrestling organization, they thought video game wrestling with a roster full of goofballs was going to draw nationally. Big mistake. I can't even imagine how bad that program would be doing if they didn't have Jericho and Moxley right now


----------



## The XL 2

It probably has a high DVR rate because people don't want to sit there and slug through some of the indyreffic undercard and want to skip to the watchable stuff.


----------



## imthegame19

The XL 2 said:


> AEW took the wind out of their own sails very quickly. A shame, they had a lot of momentum. But instead of trying to be an actual wrestling organization, they thought video game wrestling with a roster full of goofballs was going to draw nationally. Big mistake. I can't even imagine how bad that program would be doing if they didn't have Jericho and Moxley right now


Yeah winds really out of the sail lol. They will probably sell 5,000 to 6,000 plus tickets of 9,000-10,000 arena. Which is about the same or worst then what WWE draws when they go to this arena. Sky is falling!


----------



## The XL 2

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah winds really out of the sail lol. They will probably sell 5,000 to 6,000 plus tickets of 9,000-10,000 arena. Which is about the same or worst then what WWE draws when they go to this arena. Sky is falling!


WWE can't draw for shit, so comparing them to the WWE is pointless and irrelevant, but WWE doesn't need to draw because they make insane money off of their network and the TV and Saudi Arabia contracts.


----------



## imthegame19

The XL 2 said:


> WWE can't draw for shit, so comparing them to the WWE is pointless and irrelevant, but WWE doesn't need to draw because they make insane money off of their network and the TV and Saudi Arabia contracts.


It's the state of wrestling. Keep in mind Smackdown in June 2018 had 3,000 people at this same arena. In this day and age if a show sells above 80 percent it's above the norm. If WWE can't always draw and no other wrestling companies always have sell outs. Nobody should expect AEW to always draw a big crowd either.


It doesn't mean AEW still isn't making good money off the ticket sales to these shows. Nobody expects them to be making what WWE is right now. They also don't have to since they are spending much much much less on talent, bookers, writers etc then WWE While production equipment etc, camera men is provided by TNT as part of their tv deal.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206998774410813446

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1206998775874625541


----------



## NathanMayberry

Why do people keep comparing AEW ticket sales to WWE's without mentioning price? 

If every WWE show had tickets that cheap, attendance would be higher too..


----------



## WrestlingPrototype

What do you guys think about the ratings of AEW? they seem to be for me very low.


----------



## rbl85

WrestlingPrototype said:


> What do you guys think about the ratings of AEW? they seem to be for me very low.


They're higher than what TNT thought they would do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

WrestlingPrototype said:


> What do you guys think about the ratings of AEW? they seem to be for me very low.


Whooooo boy.... skip around 10 pages back in this thread, get your popcorn and coffee and read the opinions

it’ll change your life


----------



## imthegame19

WrestlingPrototype said:


> What do you guys think about the ratings of AEW? they seem to be for me very low.


They were pretty good until last 3 weeks or so. Last three weeks were just ok. But still it's pretty decent for this day and age for cable tv.


----------



## Chan Hung

For Corpus, they are actually not doing as horrible as i thought. They've sold more tickets. Granted still pretty unfilled in top areas but hey Corpus has always sucked. The WWE/WWF never did well in Corpus.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

I live in Texas. I can't imagine skipping Waco or Abilene in favor of Corpus Christi. Not to mention San Antonio which is the highest domestic attendance in company history (7200, Lockdown 2013).


----------



## rbl85

TKO Wrestling said:


> I live in Texas. I can't imagine skipping Waco or Abilene in favor of Corpus Christi. Not to mention San Antonio which is the highest domestic attendance in company history (7200, Lockdown 2013).


Maybe they didn't had the choice.


----------



## BigCy

They're doing OK so far ratings wise. They're not ground breaking and ushering in the next boom but they're also not dead in the water. One year from now will be a lot more telling.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> It's the state of wrestling. Keep in mind Smackdown in June 2018 had 3,000 people at this same arena. In this day and age if a show sells above 80 percent it's above the norm. If WWE can't always draw and no other wrestling companies always have sell outs. Nobody should expect AEW to always draw a big crowd either.
> 
> 
> It doesn't mean AEW still isn't making good money off the ticket sales to these shows. Nobody expects them to be making what WWE is right now. They also don't have to since they are spending much much much less on talent, bookers, writers etc then WWE While production equipment etc, camera men is provided by TNT as part of their tv deal.


This is what people don't get, you don't have to sell out every show to have a successful touring act. Only a few acts actually sell out every show, yet there are hundreds of acts on tour everyday of the year. They are not all out there to lose money. You can configure these arenas any way you like and pay rental fees that coralate to the amount of tickets sold. People are acting like they are renting out MSG every week at like $500k rent when most of these places are probably under $20k rent, which is the average arena rental cost in the USA.


----------



## Jonhern

NathanMayberry said:


> Why do people keep comparing AEW ticket sales to WWE's without mentioning price?
> 
> If every WWE show had tickets that cheap, attendance would be higher too..


Lol, they do have tickets that cheap. Wwe sometimes has them as low as $15, plus they do deals like buy 3 for price of 4. Aew is lower for the better seats, especially ringside, unless Ticketmaster makes them Platinum. But the other ticket levels, and where the most tickets are, are very comparable to WWE that I don't think the average is that far off from each other.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Dave is more critical of what AEW is doing wrong than any of us (AEW fans) on this forum.
> 
> You really have to listen to his podcast to understand that when AEW does something bad he say it. Also if i remember correctly not too long ago he said that in terms of in-ring quality is top 3 was NJPW - NXT - AEW.





imthegame19 said:


> It takes time to build up and audience. AEW audience is only so big right now and doing weekly show to cause ups and downs. There's not enough wrestlers on the show that they know or care about yet. That's why when they first started it did a big rating with people curious. That happens when a new show starts. We saw that first week or two new show spike with NXT and Smackdown too. Realistically AEW might be going between 750-950 in viewers for six months to a year before they start to have growth.
> 
> 
> As for WWE monopoly you realize there has been other wrestling companies? The fact that TNA couldnt come close to doing what AEW done with ticket sales and ppv buys etc. Even though at one point they had Angle, Sting, Foley, Hogan, Flair, RVD, Jarrett, Booker T, Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Jeff Hardy, AJ Styles, Samoa Joe and a lot more. Yet AEW right off the bat with less big names is doing these numbers is amazing. I'm sorry but your dislike for the company is clearly clouding your judgement on what a major success they been so far.


There is also such a thing as a hot start before you cool and become irrelevant. The AEW is not guaranteed to get bigger. It's not even getting incrementally bigger. It's down ~600k from when they started. That shows that the audience that was there said "Yeah, nah" and switched off. That's not "building an audience" or taking time before you grow. It's not impressing the potential audience for wrestling outside a select few who go for what they've deliberately presented.

TNA also had Vince Russo writing for them, didn't have a billionaire backing them, and had no clue how to use those stars constructively. It was always a place for older guys, broken down guys, guys who like recreational drugs and people who wanted to take the Carters for a ride. It wasn't a legitimate attempt at a #2 promotion to break the virtual monopoly. Almost all those big names knew that they would eventually be back in WWE taking those paychecks again once they were done ripping off TNA. 



imthegame19 said:


> Yeah winds really out of the sail lol. They will probably sell 5,000 to 6,000 plus tickets of 9,000-10,000 arena. Which is about the same or worst then what WWE draws when they go to this arena. Sky is falling!


No one is saying "The sky is falling!" This is a straw-man used to discredit a perfectly valid point. The interest is decreasing, _not_ increasing. You're trying to skim over that by pointing out that they are still at a shitty WWE level when WWE critics are also criticizing that level. If the trend continues, eventually they will only be selling 2,000 tickets to a smaller venue, and that difference will be visible on television. 



imthegame19 said:


> It's the state of wrestling. Keep in mind Smackdown in June 2018 had 3,000 people at this same arena. In this day and age if a show sells above 80 percent it's above the norm. If WWE can't always draw and no other wrestling companies always have sell outs. Nobody should expect AEW to always draw a big crowd either.
> 
> 
> It doesn't mean AEW still isn't making good money off the ticket sales to these shows. Nobody expects them to be making what WWE is right now. They also don't have to since they are spending much much much less on talent, bookers, writers etc then WWE While production equipment etc, camera men is provided by TNT as part of their tv deal.


This argument always baffles me. "It's the state of wrestling?" Are people actually using the excuse of wrestling being shit to justify shit wrestling? No shit wrestling isn't good or cool. That's why people are frustrated. And if you're not in this thing to change the perception of wrestling, then I don't know why you're in it. You're just WWE-lite and a part of that frustrating system. AEWWE again. 



rbl85 said:


> They're higher than what TNT thought they would do.


Source? Is this just another misrepresentation of a Dave Meltzer quote that possibly misrepresented a quote from _somebody_ associated with TNT without any context. 

I heard Meltzer say "they'd be okay with 500k." Not thrilled or ecstatic. Not even that they were predicting that number. Certainly not that they were hoping for it. Nor do he ever clarify whether this came from someone high on AEW, ambivalent to it, hated the idea, or whether they meant it sarcastically or not. He also suggested that this was because of B/R Live subscriptions, which doesn't really play out. It sounds like Meltzer maths to set the bar low so that when they got a fairly normal wrestling number, it looked like a major victory. And people have lapped that up and keep holding 500k to be this holy grail number they are overshooting. I'd like to see some evidence for this. 



Jonhern said:


> This is what people don't get, you don't have to sell out every show to have a successful touring act. Only a few acts actually sell out every show, yet there are hundreds of acts on tour everyday of the year. They are not all out there to lose money. You can configure these arenas any way you like and pay rental fees that coralate to the amount of tickets sold. People are acting like they are renting out MSG every week at like $500k rent when most of these places are probably under $20k rent, which is the average arena rental cost in the USA.


No one is saying what you're criticizing them for saying. No one. 

And for those of you who cannot see Meltzer's bias: that's bullshit. He's absolutely biased. Listen to him anytime he reviews AEW and he skims over the awful stuff. He'll point out the really bad (that's more so Alvarez), but he also bends over backwards to push the narrative that NXT rushed to USA, doesn't have a plan, was going to be micromanaged by Vince and refuses to criticize the overall philosophy of AEW -- which is a major problem. Then there is the issue of the Meltzer maths. The 500k number, the PPV numbers, ignoring the lack of retention, focusing on the key demo. He's not going to go into the grave beating a drum for them if they fail or whatever, but he's _clearly_ biased and trying to put an optimistic spin on everything they do.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Jonhern said:


> Lol, they do have tickets that cheap. Wwe sometimes has them as low as $15, plus they do deals like buy 3 for price of 4. Aew is lower for the better seats, especially ringside, unless Ticketmaster makes them Platinum. But the other ticket levels, and where the most tickets are, are very comparable to WWE that I don't think the average is that far off from each other.


Also, WWE’s tickets are pricey because they have a roster of 1m wrestlers cooling their heels on the sidelines.

their ticket prices are a product of their hoarding talent mentality - so, you can‘t discuss the one‘s relevance without the other - and that is a black hole none of us‘ll get out of


----------



## RainmakerV2

Does anyone have a source saying TNT would be thrilled with 500k besides Meltzer? Like, really?


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> For Corpus, they are actually not doing as horrible as i thought. They've sold more tickets. Granted still pretty unfilled in top areas but hey Corpus has always sucked. The WWE/WWF never did well in Corpus.


More or less 3K tickets sold.


----------



## IronMan8

imthegame19 said:


> It takes time to build up and audience. AEW audience is only so big right now and doing weekly show to cause ups and downs. There's not enough wrestlers on the show that they know or care about yet. That's why when they first started it did a big rating with people curious. That happens when a new show starts. We saw that first week or two new show spike with NXT and Smackdown too. Realistically AEW might be going between 750-950 in viewers for six months to a year before they start to have growth.


On the contrary, AEW's first few episodes probably overperformed in terms of what their long-term baseline for quality is likely to be for their weekly show, because those first few episodes received months and years of planning, hype, buildup, and most importantly - free time.

Now they'll be spitting out weekly shows forever or until they die, adding more content over time. 

They'll also be burning through their 1 mainstream fued within the next few weeks - Jericho vs Moxley. Beyond those two talents, nobody on their roster has a proven history of drawing new fans. 

More importantly, what happens when their own fanbase become too desensitised to the lack of selling/psychology/believability? At WWE TLC, I noticed the talent were selling simple ladder shots like crazy, which I think is strategic (a strategy possibly mocked a little by the revival...)

I'm loving Omega's potential and I'm familiar with most of the AEW roster now (I'll watch whenever I have the time/desire) but I'm concerned about AEW's ratings 12 months from now.

Will Jericho still be in main event condition in a year? Do the EVPs book themselves to be the top stars? After Moxley completes his wrestling bucket list of hardcore matches, what keeps him from returning to WWE? He blindsided Vince McMahon with 3 months' notice and AEW just happened to be there, we can't assume he's with AEW long-term. Who becomes their next big main attraction? Neville? A flippity guy who's slightly better at executing his memorised string of choreography sequences? Is that where you're predicting their growth to come from?


----------



## imthegame19

IronMan8 said:


> On the contrary, AEW's first few episodes probably overperformed in terms of what their long-term baseline for quality is likely to be for their weekly show, because those first few episodes received months and years of planning, hype, buildup, and most importantly - free time.
> 
> Now they'll be spitting out weekly shows forever or until they die, adding more content over time.
> 
> They'll also be burning through their 1 mainstream fued within the next few weeks - Jericho vs Moxley. Beyond those two talents, nobody on their roster has a proven history of drawing new fans.
> 
> More importantly, what happens when their own fanbase become too desensitised to the lack of selling/psychology/believability? At WWE TLC, I noticed the talent were selling simple ladder shots like crazy, which I think is strategic (a strategy possibly mocked a little by the revival...)
> 
> I'm loving Omega's potential and I'm familiar with most of the AEW roster now (I'll watch whenever I have the time/desire) but I'm concerned about AEW's ratings 12 months from now.
> 
> Will Jericho still be in main event condition in a year? Do the EVPs book themselves to be the top stars? After Moxley completes his wrestling bucket list of hardcore matches, what keeps him from returning to WWE? He blindsided Vince McMahon with 3 months' notice and AEW just happened to be there, we can't assume he's with AEW long-term. Who becomes their next big main attraction? Neville? A flippity guy who's slightly better at executing his memorised string of choreography sequences? Is that where you're predicting their growth to come from?


Moxley got a 3 year contract. There's no sure thing they grow. But most of the time with big wrestling companies they get bigger then where they start. WCW got way bigger then they started and TNA got way bigger then they started. While the Khan family shouldn't make same business mistakes as those companies did.


----------



## RiverFenix

Moxley also has an out clause in early March. I don't think he'd be a risk to go back to WWE yet, but if NJPW made him a Godfather offer, given their American offshoot launch this year - would he consider it? Moxley flew to Japan recently for a run-in segment to sell his WrestleKindom match with Archer. Seems a far way to fly for that. But also it was his last contracted match with them on Jan 5th and he said he wants to keep working Japan so maybe he went there to negotiate a new contract.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> There is also such a thing as a hot start before you cool and become irrelevant. The AEW is not guaranteed to get bigger. It's not even getting incrementally bigger. It's down ~600k from when they started. That shows that the audience that was there said "Yeah, nah" and switched off. That's not "building an audience" or taking time before you grow. It's not impressing the potential audience for wrestling outside a select few who go for what they've deliberately presented.
> 
> TNA also had Vince Russo writing for them, didn't have a billionaire backing them, and had no clue how to use those stars constructively. It was always a place for older guys, broken down guys, guys who like recreational drugs and people who wanted to take the Carters for a ride. It wasn't a legitimate attempt at a #2 promotion to break the virtual monopoly. Almost all those big names knew that they would eventually be back in WWE taking those paychecks again once they were done ripping off TNA.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is saying "The sky is falling!" This is a straw-man used to discredit a perfectly valid point. The interest is decreasing, _not_ increasing. You're trying to skim over that by pointing out that they are still at a shitty WWE level when WWE critics are also criticizing that level. If the trend continues, eventually they will only be selling 2,000 tickets to a smaller venue, and that difference will be visible on television.
> 
> 
> 
> This argument always baffles me. "It's the state of wrestling?" Are people actually using the excuse of wrestling being shit to justify shit wrestling? No shit wrestling isn't good or cool. That's why people are frustrated. And if you're not in this thing to change the perception of wrestling, then I don't know why you're in it. You're just WWE-lite and a part of that frustrating system. AEWWE again.
> 
> 
> 
> Source? Is this just another misrepresentation of a Dave Meltzer quote that possibly misrepresented a quote from _somebody_ associated with TNT without any context.
> 
> I heard Meltzer say "they'd be okay with 500k." Not thrilled or ecstatic. Not even that they were predicting that number. Certainly not that they were hoping for it. Nor do he ever clarify whether this came from someone high on AEW, ambivalent to it, hated the idea, or whether they meant it sarcastically or not. He also suggested that this was because of B/R Live subscriptions, which doesn't really play out. It sounds like Meltzer maths to set the bar low so that when they got a fairly normal wrestling number, it looked like a major victory. And people have lapped that up and keep holding 500k to be this holy grail number they are overshooting. I'd like to see some evidence for this.
> 
> 
> 
> No one is saying what you're criticizing them for saying. No one.
> 
> And for those of you who cannot see Meltzer's bias: that's bullshit. He's absolutely biased. Listen to him anytime he reviews AEW and he skims over the awful stuff. He'll point out the really bad (that's more so Alvarez), but he also bends over backwards to push the narrative that NXT rushed to USA, doesn't have a plan, was going to be micromanaged by Vince and refuses to criticize the overall philosophy of AEW -- which is a major problem. Then there is the issue of the Meltzer maths. The 500k number, the PPV numbers, ignoring the lack of retention, focusing on the key demo. He's not going to go into the grave beating a drum for them if they fail or whatever, but he's _clearly_ biased and trying to put an optimistic spin on everything they do.


Basically that long post says I don't like the product. I think fans are like me and don't like it and aren't watching it anymore(even tho NXT and Smackdown had same new show bumps and drops). I want it to fail(at least with current roster)and how do you know they will grow? 

Nobody knows for sure but that's been common theme with new big wrestling companies like WCW an TNA over the years. You put product on tv for a while. Let people get use to home grown wrestlers and add more names. So history is more likely to repeat itself then not. Once successful Khan Family just can't make same poor decisions. Anyways I can't debate with you anymore. Your bias or dislike for things clouds your judgement.


----------



## imthegame19

RainmakerV2 said:


> Does anyone have a source saying TNT would be thrilled with 500k besides Meltzer? Like, really?


It was in a Forbes article. Saying industry insides expect it to do those numbers. Which clearly is coming from TNT. Here's the article. 









AEW Officially Announces Weekly Prime-Time Television Show On TNT Beginning October 2


AEW officially announced the premiere of its weekly television series beginning October 2 on TNT from 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. EST.




www.forbes.com






One thing to keep in mind is how ratings TNT other shows do. When AEW is doing better or near NBA numbers for TNT. They can't be disappointed.


----------



## ellthom

Eric Bischoff: AEW And WWE NXT Delivering Ratings "That Were Embarrassing TO TNA A Couple Of Years Ago"


Eric Bischoff knows what it is like to be involved in a ratings war in professional wrestling. As the executive vice president, and then president of WCW, he launched WCW Monday Nitro in the same timeslot as Monday Night Raw to directly compete with WWE. He then tried every underhanded tactic to...




cultaholic.com












WINCLY: AEW - NXT Tie, Backstage WWE TLC News, Royal Rumble (Feat. Eric Bischoff & Brooklyn Brawler)


An Audioboom post by Wrestling Inc. Podcast




audioboom.com







> Eric Bischoff knows what it is like to be involved in a ratings war in professional wrestling. As the executive vice president, and then president of WCW, he launched WCW Monday Nitro in the same timeslot as Monday Night Raw to directly compete with WWE. He then tried every underhanded tactic to boost his show’s ratings, including broadcasting Nitro from 7:57 p.m. so he could tell viewers what was going to happen on Raw.
> 
> Now the wrestling world finds itself embroiled in the Wednesday Night Wars between AEW Dynamite and WWE NXT. Bischoff recently appeared on the WINCLY podcast, in which he discussed both shows ratings. The former Raw general manager admitted that he didn’t want his comments to be seen as “a left-handed shot,” but he said that both promotions should be concerned about their TV ratings. He elaborated that the most important thing for any TV show was to attract advertisers, and having a viewership of under one million viewers that wasn’t growing was a “tough sell,” to those in the advertising world. He added that the ratings for both shows would have been embarrassing to IMPACT a couple of years ago, and unless both Dynamite and NXT started growing their audiences, they would eventually be cancelled.
> 
> *Bischoff said: “You look at NXT right now and AEW, and yes they’re going head to head, but both of those shows are only delivering numbers that were embarrassing to TNA a couple of years ago. I don’t know how you can look at those numbers and not be concerned. It’s the television industry; if you’re not building your audience you’re killing your audience, you’re dying.*
> 
> “When you’re delivering under a million viewers in a product that for the most part is a tough sell to the advertising world, and now you’ve got less than a million viewers on a week to week basis, that’s not a big piece of business for a television network, especially for prime time. When they could run a rerun and have an easier time selling ads and get as much money for it as they are spending on a live action wrestling event […] If I was only delivering 800,000 viewers in prime time and my numbers weren’t showing signs of growing, even incrementally […] and you’re for the most part flat, or worse, you’re losing the audience. If you’re not paying attention to that red flag you’re going to fly into an iceberg.”


I really want to see TNA's early ratings for their first 3 months to compare.

Of course wrestling as a whole was in a better place 15 years ago. Its basically like reverse inflation. So yea sure while AEW and NxT are not doing as good as TNA were, nor is Impact or WWE themselves doing as good as they previously were.

I think this is just salty old man talk...


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

Yeah, Bisch would definitely know something about killing audiences. Everything on tv was in a better place 15 years ago, dumbass. It’s a different time.

Time for a new bidding war for Hogan, Nash and Russo, I guess.


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> Does anyone have a source saying TNT would be thrilled with 500k besides Meltzer? Like, really?


You don't really need a source, just look at how their other programs perform in the demo. AEW is doing better than anything else they have other than the NBA, but they sometimes beat that too.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> It was in a Forbes article. Saying industry insides expect it to do those numbers. Which clearly is coming from TNT. Here's the article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Officially Announces Weekly Prime-Time Television Show On TNT Beginning October 2
> 
> 
> AEW officially announced the premiere of its weekly television series beginning October 2 on TNT from 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. EST.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is how ratings TNT other shows do. When AEW is doing better or near NBA numbers for TNT. They can't be disappointed.


which links to an article that only sources Dave lol. But like you and I said, you just need to look at how it's performing with other shows on TNT to know they are doing well.


----------



## RiverFenix

And he walk in 4 feet of snow to school every day - uphill both ways.


----------



## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

Old people just can't accept that things don't work the same way they used to. Say what you will about Vince's creative vision, but business wise he always has his eye towards the future.


----------



## virus21

So is Raw and Smackdown, whats your point Eric?


----------



## Garty

Combined, both shows total approximately 1.6 million viewers a week. Had WWE not brought NXT to cable TV, I am positive that AEW would be hovering around 1 million viewers each week. If they're drawing an average 750,00 viewers currently with competition, adding another 200,000 with no competition, is not much of a stretch to think that to be true.


----------



## Geeee

I wonder where TNA placed in the rankings. TV ratings in general are going to continue going down, so the 10th rated show now is probably not the same as it was even 5 years ago.


----------



## 304418

Well he’s not wrong. I understand that TNT had lower expectations for AEW and they are happy with the current ratings they are getting. One would have thought that the ratings would be averaging around 1 million every week, since AEW did show there was still a massive appetite for a non-WWE alternative with their debut show, even with the numerous distractions for fan viewership these days. I just wonder what he attributes the current flat ratings of both AEW and NXT to, to explain why they’re not growing.


----------



## TripleG

He's technically not wrong, BUT the TV landscape has also changed drastically in the last decade. 

Cord cutting has played a lot into it.


----------



## Taroostyles

Here's an easy way to put this into perspective. Raw which has been on cable TV for 26 years just drew barely over 2 million viewers. Dynamite has been on TV for less than 3 months and is averaging about half of that or slightly less. 

Talking about TNA 10 years ago just before cord cutting began is a completely unfair comparison.


----------



## imthegame19

ellthom said:


> Eric Bischoff: AEW And WWE NXT Delivering Ratings "That Were Embarrassing TO TNA A Couple Of Years Ago"
> 
> 
> Eric Bischoff knows what it is like to be involved in a ratings war in professional wrestling. As the executive vice president, and then president of WCW, he launched WCW Monday Nitro in the same timeslot as Monday Night Raw to directly compete with WWE. He then tried every underhanded tactic to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cultaholic.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WINCLY: AEW - NXT Tie, Backstage WWE TLC News, Royal Rumble (Feat. Eric Bischoff & Brooklyn Brawler)
> 
> 
> An Audioboom post by Wrestling Inc. Podcast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> audioboom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I really want to see TNA's early ratings for their first 3 months to compare.
> 
> Of course wrestling as a whole was in a better place 15 years ago. Its basically like reverse inflation. So yea sure while AEW and NxT are not doing as good as TNA were, nor is Impact or WWE themselves doing as good as they previously were.
> 
> I think this is just salty old man talk...


Lol shows how out of touch he is. He has no idea how landscape has changed over the last few years with cord cutting etc. Ratings are good or bad based off how they compare to other shows. AEW has been top 8 in 18-49 for 9 of It's 11 weeks on tv. 

While viewership between 800 to 1 million is norm for a lot of non news shows. That's also why TNA ratings were always mediocre at the time. Because a lot more people where watching cable tv at that time. So you can't compare ratings today to 6 or 7 years ago.


----------



## Buhalovski

I want to make my night more interesting with some gambling in my local bookie, do we expect NXT to win tonight or?


----------



## rbl85

Tsvetoslava said:


> I want to make my night more interesting with some gambling in my local bookie, do we expect NXT to win tonight or?


NXT have a big opening and ending but they have nothing really interesting between the start and the end of the show.

AEW have a more "linear" show with a good opener (great in ring) and a good main event (match for the tag titles) but what happen between the 2 match look more solid than NXT.

In short it's going to be close but the 2 show should do better than last week.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Tsvetoslava said:


> I want to make my night more interesting with some gambling in my local bookie, do we expect NXT to win tonight or?


Clear win for NXT tonight i think. Its their big show to end the year. They were already tied with AEW last week with a regular show.


----------



## Dark Emperor

He must be talking 8-10 years ago as TNA were nowhere near these numbers in the last few years. But he has a point in terms of the downward trend when it comes to negotiating a future deal.



Taroostyles said:


> Here's an easy way to put this into perspective. Raw which has been on cable TV for 26 years just drew barely over 2 million viewers. Dynamite has been on TV for less than 3 months and is averaging about half of that or slightly less.
> 
> Talking about TNA 10 years ago just before cord cutting began is a completely unfair comparison.


I dont think AEW has reached 1m viewers since week 3 or 4 and will need a publicity angle or massive signing to get back on track.
RAW rating will be back up to Smackdown level once NFL is over and Rumble build up starts.

Overall all these shows are still doing pretty well on TV for a weekly show.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Clear win for NXT tonight i think. Its their big show to end the year. They were already tied with AEW last week with a regular show.


Last week AEW had also a regular show and people using Spectrum were not able to watch the first hour.


----------



## RiverFenix

rbl85 said:


> Last week AEW had also a regular show and people using Spectrum were not able to watch the first hour.


Wouldn't Spectrum also have impacted NXT viewers in that area or does Spectrum not carry NXT's network?


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> Last week AEW had also a regular show and people using Spectrum were not able to watch the first hour.


Don't know anything about Spectrum, is this another excuse like DvR? Why are these things always brought up for AEW. 

Anyway today seems like a regular show again. So chances are NXT will go up and AEW will do similar numbers to last week but we'll see tomorrow. 

On Jan 2nd, AEW has a big opportunity to gain some fans some fans as NXT won't be competing on that night. They might get over 1m for first time since the first few weeks then.


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Wouldn't Spectrum also have impacted NXT viewers in that area or does Spectrum not carry NXT's network?


There was no report of any problem with the USA network.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> *Don't know anything about Spectrum, is this another excuse like DvR? Why are these things always brought up for AEW.*
> 
> Anyway today seems like a regular show again. So chances are NXT will go up and AEW will do similar numbers to last week but we'll see tomorrow.
> 
> On Jan 2nd, AEW has a big opportunity to gain some fans some fans as NXT won't be competing on that night. They might get over 1m for first time since the first few weeks then.


it's not an excuse, some people (even people on this forum) use Spectrum to watch TNT and last week those people couldn't watch the first hour.

Also the fact that you talk about DvR show that you didn't even tried to understand what said about it.


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> Don't know anything about Spectrum, is this another excuse like DvR? Why are these things always brought up for AEW.
> 
> Anyway today seems like a regular show again. So chances are NXT will go up and AEW will do similar numbers to last week but we'll see tomorrow.
> 
> On Jan 2nd, AEW has a big opportunity to gain some fans some fans as NXT won't be competing on that night. They might get over 1m for first time since the first few weeks then.


Spectrum is a big cable tv service. They were having a system issue that wasn't showing TNT last week for a lot of the show. While USA was working fine. Also last week didn't have Jericho wrestle, Tag Team Title match or number one contender match. So AEW is bigger show then last week.


----------



## imthegame19

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Wouldn't Spectrum also have impacted NXT viewers in that area or does Spectrum not carry NXT's network?


TNT wasn't working. USA was working on the service.


----------



## Dark Emperor

rbl85 said:


> it's not an excuse, some people (even people on this forum) use Spectrum to watch TNT and last week those people couldn't watch the first hour.
> 
> Also the fact that you talk about DvR show that you didn't even tried to understand what said about it.





imthegame19 said:


> Spectrum is a big cable tv service. They were having a system issue that wasn't showing TNT last week for a lot of the show. While USA was working fine. Also last week didn't have Jericho wrestle, Tag Team Title match or number one contender match. So AEW is bigger show then last week.


Okay fair enough. So we are expecting a big gain for AEW too then. And no real excuses if the ratings go down this time.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Wouldn't Spectrum also have impacted NXT viewers in that area or does Spectrum not carry NXT's network?


I have Spectrum and TNT was the only channel out last Wednesday night. I could watch it on the Spectrum app, but not the receiver.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> Okay fair enough. So we are expecting a big gain for AEW too then. And no real excuses if the ratings go down this time.


I don't know how many people have Spectrum so I can't tell you if the loss from Spectrum was big or small but there was a loss of viewers. Now i don't think they're going to gain 100K just because of Spectrum


----------



## imthegame19

Dark Emperor said:


> Okay fair enough. So we are expecting a big gain for AEW too then. And no real excuses if the ratings go down this time.


I would expect in 800,000 to 850,000 range at least. Not sure who will win or lose. I could see another close week. Id say AEW would win but I have NXT match might out draw Tag Title match by decent amount. 


While I think Omega/ Page vs Lucha Bros can match Cole/Balor (Cole matches usually don't do big ratings). If it's me I main event with Jericho/Jungle Boy with Moxley angle. But I don't think they will do that. So I think after Jericho match people will turn on NXT. I guess we will see what happens.


----------



## Ham and Egger

Well, the TV ratings are sharing each year but wrestling has been growing so I dont give a shit about that stuff anymore. TNA was doing a million plus viewers each episode but couldn't draw shit on the road and could never pull PPV buys. AEW is doing better than TNA was when they were in year 1.


----------



## Dickhead1990

In a day and age where people watch wrestling online illegally, I don't understand why TV ratings still matter outside of the TV station itself.


----------



## One Shed

Dickhead1990 said:


> In a day and age where people watch wrestling online illegally, I don't understand why TV ratings still matter outside of the TV station itself.


Because ratings = ad buys = revenue to fund your company...


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Last week AEW had also a regular show and people using Spectrum were not able to watch the first hour.


But a viewer watching the second hour would count as well, right? So they should have increased for the second hour?! And they went down with each segment, so I dont see your argument holding up.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Dark Emperor said:


> Don't know anything about Spectrum, is this another excuse like DvR? *Why are these things always brought up for AEW.*
> 
> Anyway today seems like a regular show again. So chances are NXT will go up and AEW will do similar numbers to last week but we'll see tomorrow.
> 
> On Jan 2nd, AEW has a big opportunity to gain some fans some fans as NXT won't be competing on that night. They might get over 1m for first time since the first few weeks then.


Because you are chatting to AEW fans on an AEW section. What, you expect this shit to be impartial?

Welcome to the internet buddy


----------



## Darkest Lariat

If he just thought about how ratings work for 5 seconds he wouldn't have opened his mouth. I must've missed the portion of his career where he was working for Neilsen. He was a stickman that got lucky once 25 years ago, not a professional ratings analyst.

Everyone today isn't watching on cable like they were in '95. These boomers never know when to shut up. Must be why he's jobless.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> But a viewer watching the second hour would count as well, right? So they should have increased for the second hour?! And they went down with each segment, so I dont see your argument holding up.


Because you think that the people stayed 1 hour in front of their tv without any image waiting for the feed to come back ?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

My prediction for this weeK: NXT will beat AEW in the target demo for the first time. Cole vs Balor is just too good to miss. That's what i'll be watching.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> My prediction for this weeK: NXT will beat AEW in the target demo for the first time. Cole vs Balor is just too good to miss. *That's what i'll be watching.*


Bah heretic, begone and never come back


----------



## bdon

AEW gets demolished in the opener. Demolished.

And they’re still none the wiser as to how badly they’re booking Omega.


----------



## Garty

I have a feeling that since there are only 2 confirmed matches for NXT, Cole vs Balor to open the show and Ripley vs Bayzler closing the show, that leaves a lot of "space" in between, or does it? I think because WWE announced that Cole vs Balor will be commercial-free to start the show, this match will go long and my guess would be about 40-45 minutes. As for Ripley vs Bayzler closing the show, I could see them having about 30-35 minutes. Added up, that's approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes, add another 10 minutes combined for ring entrances, there's isn't a lot of time for anything else, if they do go this route.

AEW has to be very strong tonight, but I don't think they can overcome NXT this week.


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> AEW gets demolished in the opener. Demolished.
> 
> And they’re still none the wiser as to how badly they’re booking Omega.


Same Omega talking points again and again...

 You're welcome.


----------



## rbl85

Garty said:


> I have a feeling that since there are only 2 confirmed matches for NXT, Cole vs Balor to open the show and Ripley vs Bayzler closing the show, that leaves a lot of "space" in between, or does it? I think because WWE announced that Cole vs Balor will be commercial-free to start the show, this match will go long and my guess would be about 40-45 minutes. As for Ripley vs Bayzler closing the show, I could see them having about 30-35 minutes. Added up, that's approximately 1 hour and 15 minutes, add another 10 minutes combined for ring entrances, there's isn't a lot of time for anything else, if they do go this route.
> 
> AEW has to be very strong tonight, but I don't think they can overcome NXT this week.


USA will never accept a 2 hours show with 40-45 minutes without any commercials.

NXT have a certain amount of commercials to show, also less commercials = less money.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Because you think that the people stayed 1 hour in front of their tv without any image waiting for the feed to come back ?


With Twitter and all they would know, especially the younger viewers, but I guess this doesnt fit into the picture you want to paint. Honestly it gets quite sad what excuses you guys bring up to make sure you yourself dont see the truth. And this week it will go up and everyone will laugh at the non aew fans and the next week it will be down and then there will be another excuse.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> With Twitter and all they would know, especially the younger viewers, but I guess this doesnt fit into the picture you want to paint. Honestly it gets quite sad what excuses you guys bring up to make sure you yourself dont see the truth. And this week it will go up and everyone will laugh at the non aew fans and *the next week it will be down and then there will be another excuse.*


Close to 0 next week


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> With Twitter and all they would know, especially the younger viewers, but I guess this doesnt fit into the picture you want to paint. Honestly it gets quite sad what excuses you guys bring up to make sure you yourself dont see the truth. And this week it will go up and everyone will laugh at the non aew fans and the next week it will be down and then there will be another excuse.


I think you're reaching a bit here. Everyone wants instant gratification these days and as said, there's no way that anyone would sit in front of a black TV screen for an hour. Also, I don't understand the first part of your Twitter quote.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Bah heretic, begone and never come back


What

I’m a massive fan of AEW. don’t group me with the dumbass trolls in this sxn.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> What
> 
> I’m a massive fan of AEW. don’t group me with the dumbass trolls in this sxn.


Begone heretic you choose the path of darkness.
I pray that one day you'll find the path of light …..give me an AEDUB.


----------



## fabi1982

Garty said:


> I think you're reaching a bit here. Everyone wants instant gratification these days and as said, there's no way that anyone would sit in front of a black TV screen for an hour. Also, I don't understand the first part of your Twitter quote.


i never said anyone would sit an hour infront of a black tv. But with social media this channel/app/whatever didnt work would have let their viewers know it does work again. So people can tune in then. It just is a lame excuse for me. Its like I want to watch a soccer match and the first half is not shown I would skip the second half as well? I would be happy to watch the second half...


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> But a viewer watching the second hour would count as well, right? So they should have increased for the second hour?! And they went down with each segment, so I dont see your argument holding up.


You got to take into account most folk aren't going to double check to see if the channel is back working especially since it took a out 45 minutes for TNT to work


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Close to 0 next week


I wasnt speaking literally. Just to show you laugh at everyone when aew wins and you have excusses when they dont win...not that hard to understand


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> You got to take into account most folk aren't going to double check to see if the channel is back working especially since it took a out 45 minutes for TNT to work


So the so called fan doesnt care then? Way to build an audience.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> I wasnt speaking literally. Just to show you laugh at everyone when aew wins and you have excusses when they dont win...not that hard to understand


I laugh at everyone ?

You're talking to the wrong man….


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> So the so called fan doesnt care then? Way to build an audience.


It's not about not caring it's about moving on with your night lol.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> I laugh at everyone ?
> 
> You're talking to the wrong man….


With you I meant the people in here doing that. I just took your argument to make my point. You are one of the rare examples on how to be a fan


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> It's not about not caring it's about moving on with your night lol.


And that would be watching something you didnt want to watch in the first place and totally forget to check if your actual evening plan is back up? Still a lame excuse. When netfix is down I check if it is back up, when youporn is down I do the same, so I would expect this to be a natural behaviour be I stand corrected. My car doesnt work, so I throw it away then? Sorry for over exaggerating, but I just wanted to stand by my statement, the trump way


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

fabi1982 said:


> And that would be watching something you didnt want to watch in the first place and totally forget to check if your actual evening plan is back up? Still a lame excuse. When netfix is down I check if it is back up, when youporn is down I do the same, so I would expect this to be a natural behaviour be I stand corrected. My car doesnt work, so I throw it away then? Sorry for over exaggerating, but I just wanted to stand by my statement, the trump way


Forgive me if I’m wrong, but AEW Dynamite is a live show. Pornbay and Netflix aren’t.
So why wouldn’t the audience who missed the first hour say “eh no point watching now I’ll watch the replay later so I can enjoy the full show instead of half”


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> i never said anyone would sit an hour infront of a black tv. But with social media this channel/app/whatever didnt work would have let their viewers know it does work again. So people can tune in then. It just is a lame excuse for me. Its like I want to watch a soccer match and the first half is not shown I would skip the second half as well? I would be happy to watch the second half...


Not everyone uses or wants to use Twitter, or social media in general. I sure as hell don't. It's a cesspool.

I think what you're saying is this. That everyone who gets their TV service from Spectrum, who watches AEW, who has a social media account specifically following AEW while constantly checking and re-checking their Twitter feed to see if the show is back on? After waiting 1 hour, I don't think so. They were most likely watching NXT at that point. Saying that the audience kept going down over the course of the 2 hour show, pretty much sums up that, yes, most people didn't stick around, which means you'd be right, but you're not.


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> And that would be watching something you didnt want to watch in the first place and totally forget to check if your actual evening plan is back up? Still a lame excuse. When netfix is down I check if it is back up, when youporn is down I do the same, so I would expect this to be a natural behaviour be I stand corrected. My car doesnt work, so I throw it away then? Sorry for over exaggerating, but I just wanted to stand by my statement, the trump way


If you're actually that anticipated, checking and re-checking about whether or not a TV/Internet has come back online so you can feel better, then you really need a new hobby. Wow!


----------



## RapShepard

fabi1982 said:


> And that would be watching something you didnt want to watch in the first place and totally forget to check if your actual evening plan is back up? Still a lame excuse. When netfix is down I check if it is back up, when youporn is down I do the same, so I would expect this to be a natural behaviour be I stand corrected. My car doesnt work, so I throw it away then? Sorry for over exaggerating, but I just wanted to stand by my statement, the trump way


I get the point you're making and it would make more sense if it was down a short amount of time. But it was out close to an hour. I and a lot I seen on Twitter used the Spectrum or TNT apps instead. Just saying that expecting folk to come back after that long of technical difficulties doesn't make much sense.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> It's not about not caring it's about moving on with your night lol.


Yes it's easy to say I'll watch something else and watch it tomorrow on demand.


----------



## Jonhern

TripleG said:


> He's technically not wrong, BUT the TV landscape has also changed drastically in the last decade.
> 
> Cord cutting has played a lot into it.


It's not just cord cutting, it's more channels, streaming options, dvr, YouTube. Just so many entertainment options out there and the fact that family's have more TV's and people don't watch together like they used to, everyone can watch thier own thing. How many of those sitcoms had high numbers back in the day because kids had no choice but to watch what the parents did.



Dark Emperor said:


> He must be talking 8-10 years ago as TNA were nowhere near these numbers in the last few years. But he has a point in terms of the downward trend when it comes to negotiating a future deal.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think AEW has reached 1m viewers since week 3 or 4 and will need a publicity angle or massive signing to get back on track.
> RAW rating will be back up to Smackdown level once NFL is over and Rumble build up starts.
> 
> Overall all these shows are still doing pretty well on TV for a weekly show.


Everyone said last year raw would recover after football and it never happened. Just look at this week, low NFL number and raw was still lower, only .6 demo for a post ppv show. That's what smackdown was doing before the move to fox. The people that would watch NFL over raw and then come back seem to have already left, since the mnf ratings doesn't really coralate with WWE's rating.



rbl85 said:


> I don't know how many people have Spectrum so I can't tell you if the loss from Spectrum was big or small but there was a loss of viewers. Now i don't think they're going to gain 100K just because of Spectrum


It's the second largest cable company in the USA with almost a quarter of the cable households, 26 million. So it would have an effect.



RapShepard said:


> I get the point you're making and it would make more sense if it was down a short amount of time. But it was out close to an hour. I and a lot I seen on Twitter used the Spectrum or TNT apps instead. Just saying that expecting folk to come back after that long of technical difficulties doesn't make much sense.


If they are a Nielson home and watch on the app it wouldn't count is my understanding. Nielson only counts traditional cable viewing in the public ratings.


----------



## Garty

Jonhern said:


> Everyone said last year raw would recover after football and it never happened. Just look at this week, low NFL number and raw was still lower, only .6 demo for a post ppv show. That's what smackdown was doing before the move to fox. The people that would watch NFL over raw and then come back seem to have already left, since the mnf ratings doesn't really coralate with WWE's rating.


I've never understood why there's so much emphasis on football vs wrestling. Of course there's many NFL fans that like/watch wrestling and vice-versa, but that doesn't mean they choose one over the other. If those viewers are anything, they're casuals, not die-hard. WWE has, almost literally, killed the market, which in turn, has taken almost everybody else down with them.


----------



## rbl85

You know what ?

I think a wrestling show will do better number in europe than in the US.

I'm always shocked when i see how so few people watch wrestling shows in a country with so many people. In France in 2011 RAW and SD were doing between 500k and 900K on small channels and without any promotion of the shows.


----------



## fabi1982

Garty said:


> Not everyone uses or wants to use Twitter, or social media in general. I sure as hell don't. It's a cesspool.


ha funny and you are writing in this forum, which is even worse


Garty said:


> I think what you're saying is this. That everyone who gets their TV service from Spectrum, who watches AEW, who has a social media account specifically following AEW while constantly checking and re-checking their Twitter feed to see if the show is back on? After waiting 1 hour, I don't think so. They were most likely watching NXT at that point. Saying that the audience kept going down over the course of the 2 hour show, pretty much sums up that, yes, most people didn't stick around, which means you'd be right, but you're not.


How does that makes sense? Spectrum down dont allow people to watch, but this should be the reason for the steady drop over the eposide? make up your mind man, or just read before you post.


----------



## fabi1982

Garty said:


> If you're actually that anticipated, checking and re-checking about whether or not a TV/Internet has come back online so you can feel better, then you really need a new hobby. Wow!


Wow what? Going this route of commenting just shows that you are not worth anymore of my time.


----------



## fabi1982

RapShepard said:


> I get the point you're making and it would make more sense if it was down a short amount of time. But it was out close to an hour. I and a lot I seen on Twitter used the Spectrum or TNT apps instead. Just saying that expecting folk to come back after that long of technical difficulties doesn't make much sense.


Does the app show advertisement as well? And does anyone know if this counts into the rating?


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Does anyone have a source saying TNT would be thrilled with 500k besides Meltzer? Like, really?


And Meltzer’s reasoning/source himself is potentially specious and out of context. What if he was talking to someone with incredibly low expectations versus someone who actually makes important decisions and is more optimistic/was sold 



imthegame19 said:


> Moxley got a 3 year contract. There's no sure thing they grow. But most of the time with big wrestling companies they get bigger then where they start. WCW got way bigger then they started and TNA got way bigger then they started. While the Khan family shouldn't make same business mistakes as those companies did.


But you have to put that into the context of the time. Wrestling was still hot and had massive stars. And those massive stars jumped ship. That’s not happening now. WCW may not have survived if they stuck with Jim Herd.

A large part of the appeal of AEW’s potential was it starting with the capital of something like WCW. 



imthegame19 said:


> It was in a Forbes article. Saying industry insides expect it to do those numbers. Which clearly is coming from TNT. Here's the article.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AEW Officially Announces Weekly Prime-Time Television Show On TNT Beginning October 2
> 
> 
> AEW officially announced the premiere of its weekly television series beginning October 2 on TNT from 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. EST.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.forbes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is how ratings TNT other shows do. When AEW is doing better or near NBA numbers for TNT. They can't be disappointed.


Unless they aren’t making ad revenue with those ratings, or market research suggests they are a closed market. You can’t just look at the numbers and say “that is definitely good!”. It’s a good starting point, 



Reggie Dunlop said:


> Yeah, Bisch would definitely know something about killing audiences. Everything on tv was in a better place 15 years ago, dumbass. It’s a different time.
> 
> Time for a new bidding war for Hogan, Nash and Russo, I guess.


Eric Bischoff is definitely overrated as a mind. The guy got big because he got to spend Ted Turner’s money and got to sign up a bunch of people leaving the WWF and a bunch of people Vince wasn’t even 



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Old people just can't accept that things don't work the same way they used to. Say what you will about Vince's creative vision, but business wise he always has his eye towards the future.


Vince is an interesting animal. His creative sucks right now, but there’s no disputing he’s a fucking monster at what he does. I’m not a football guy, but if the XFL succeeds...fuck me. Dude’s a mogul and is probably working harder now than he ever has in his life. It’s crazy. 



Verbatim17 said:


> Well he’s not wrong. I understand that TNT had lower expectations for AEW and they are happy with the current ratings they are getting. One would have thought that the ratings would be averaging around 1 million every week, since AEW did show there was still a massive appetite for a non-WWE alternative with their debut show, even with the numerous distractions for fan viewership these days. I just wonder what he attributes the current flat ratings of both AEW and NXT to, to explain why they’re not growing.


There is no source for this though, lol. We don’t know what TNT’s expectations are/were. Why would they get into bed with wrestling if they didn’t want it to do as well as what the other errstling



Taroostyles said:


> Here's an easy way to put this into perspective. Raw which has been on cable TV for 26 years just drew barely over 2 million viewers. Dynamite has been on TV for less than 3 months and is averaging about half of that or slightly less.
> 
> Talking about TNA 10 years ago just before cord cutting began is a completely unfair comparison.


I don’t get that reasoning, lol. Why does Raw being on the air mean it is going to constantly grow? It’s a dinosaur in TV terms. AEW is the fresh new thing. Why do people think Raw automatically has the undisputed advantage? It’s not like all new shows flop.


----------



## bdon

The Wood said:


> And Meltzer’s reasoning/source himself is potentially specious and out of context. What if he was talking to someone with incredibly low expectations versus someone who actually makes important decisions and is more optimistic/was sold
> 
> 
> 
> But you have to put that into the context of the time. Wrestling was still hot and had massive stars. And those massive stars jumped ship. That’s not happening now. WCW may not have survived if they stuck with Jim Herd.
> 
> A large part of the appeal of AEW’s potential was it starting with the capital of something like WCW.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless they aren’t making ad revenue with those ratings, or market research suggests they are a closed market. You can’t just look at the numbers and say “that is definitely good!”. It’s a good starting point,
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Bischoff is definitely overrated as a mind. The guy got big because he got to spend Ted Turner’s money and got to sign up a bunch of people leaving the WWF and a bunch of people Vince wasn’t even
> 
> 
> 
> *Vince is an interesting animal. His creative sucks right now, but there’s no disputing he’s a fucking monster at what he does. I’m not a football guy, but if the XFL succeeds...fuck me. Dude’s a mogul and is probably working harder now than he ever has in his life.*


Aaaand you just outed yourself, homie.


----------



## rbl85

Do you guys think that the impeachment is going to hurt AEW and NXT ?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Do you guys think that the impeachment is going to hurt AEW and NXT ?


Yep - biggest rating ‘stealer’ last week was political shows - bound to be again

the key demo is worried about other stuff in USA these days it seems


----------



## rbl85

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Yep - biggest rating ‘stealer’ last week was political shows - bound to be again
> 
> the key demo is worried about other stuff in USA these days it seems


Last night was probably even bigger because it was even trending in France.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

rbl85 said:


> Last night was probably even bigger because it was even trending in France.


For sure - last week a massive portion of the key demo reflected in shows it never normally does

like Hannity and Tucker Carlson

more of the same this week - will only make sense

i’m thinking in the 600k area for both.

NXT might even win the key demo as a result - the we can finally tell people

’see, NXT won - the key demo was the most important’ - and we can finally get that monkey off our back too


----------



## RiverFenix

I hope AEW gets blown out this week. They offered up crap. Especially the tag match with the Bucks and final angle unveiling jobbers as the big end of year show reveal.


----------



## rbl85

I hope that Tony Khan read some of the comments here and goes "fuck it i'm out".

It'll be funny to see all the people bitching about AEW "crying" because it's over.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> I hope AEW gets blown out this week. They offered up crap. Especially the tag match with the Bucks and final angle unveiling jobbers as the big end of year show reveal.


Disagreed - i loved that match and the end angle

i’m taking a guess others will too - some of us enjoy the bucks and their style - almost..... like they built a company with it ?‍♂


----------



## RiverFenix

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Disagreed - i loved that match and the end angle
> 
> i’m taking a guess others will too - some of us enjoy the bucks and their style - almost..... like they built a company with it ?‍♂


Or they built an indie niche following with it and think it works mainstream. Cody and Omega are more important now and going forward.


----------



## Garty

fabi1982 said:


> ha funny and you are writing in this forum, which is even worse
> 
> How does that makes sense? Spectrum down dont allow people to watch, but this should be the reason for the steady drop over the eposide? make up your mind man, or just read before you post.





fabi1982 said:


> Wow what? Going this route of commenting just shows that you are not worth anymore of my time.


Twitter only gives you what, a couple hundred characters to use, while a forum, such as this, is infinite in scope. The 2 are completely different. Twitter is aptly named and seen as such.

Umm, make up my mind over what? I clearly said that people may have stuck around for a few minutes watching a black TV screen, but didn't wait around for it to come back on, which it did 1 hour later. Some customers, even on this forum, used the Spectrum TNT app to watch. Many did not. They either watched NXT, or something else completely. If the ratings weren't there from the beginning of the show (because it was out), why would you think it would increase later.

I have rarely "commented" on people's personal viewing habits, but you're the one that put it out there. Watching porn is one thing, but when you're constantly checking to see if it's back online, so you can... I don't know...? That is the "O and C" part of OCD. If it's that bad, in all seriousness and with all due respect, you need to step back and take a look at your life choices.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> I hope that Tony Khan read some of the comments here and goes "fuck it i'm out".
> 
> It'll be funny to see all the people bitching about AEW "crying" because it's over.


I think declining ratings and low ticket sales may affect his decision more than comments on a Message board. 


Wrestling fans need to get a grip. Words on a forum don't mean that much.


----------



## fabi1982

Garty said:


> Twitter only gives you what, a couple hundred characters to use, while a forum, such as this, is infinite in scope. The 2 are completely different. Twitter is aptly named and seen as such.
> 
> Umm, make up my mind over what? I clearly said that people may have stuck around for a few minutes watching a black TV screen, but didn't wait around for it to come back on, which it did 1 hour later. Some customers, even on this forum, used the Spectrum TNT app to watch. Many did not. They either watched NXT, or something else completely. If the ratings weren't there from the beginning of the show (because it was out), why would you think it would increase later.
> 
> I have rarely "commented" on people's personal viewing habits, but you're the one that put it out there. Watching porn is one thing, but when you're constantly checking to see if it's back online, so you can... I don't know...? That is the "O and C" part of OCD. If it's that bad, in all seriousness and with all due respect, you need to step back and take a look at your life choices.


But I thought you AEW fans were all so passionate? But are too lazy to check once every 30 mins if their favorite show is on? So basically we are talking about the same laziness people say WWE fans have "oh its not there, hmm fine, I go play with my cat".

And yet again, what does the fact that one want to see his favorite show has to do with OCD? Really you say such things without even knowing me. I could be your boss, or your grandmother. But heck lets insult people because I am in an anonymous forum. And honestly this is the same as with Twitter, just you can write more words, means more insults in one post.

Oh and btw if this weeks numbers are down it is definitelly down to the impeachment stuff with Trump...


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

NXT should win the week with ease. AEW was basically a nothing episode. Dunno where Mox even was.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> You know what ?
> 
> I think a wrestling show will do better number in europe than in the US.
> 
> I'm always shocked when i see how so few people watch wrestling shows in a country with so many people. In France in 2011 RAW and SD were doing between 500k and 900K on small channels and without any promotion of the shows.


It depends. WWE doesn't do that well in the UK.

Anyway, I'm expecting either boring or really bad numbers for AEW this week. NXT may do better, but maybe not by much. We've seen how little effect WWE's promotion has on bumping numbers these days.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Or they built an indie niche following with it and think it works mainstream. Cody and Omega are more important now and going forward.


It’s all niche mate - none of this is mainstream


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> It depends. WWE doesn't do that well in the UK.
> 
> Anyway, I'm expecting either boring or really bad numbers for AEW this week. NXT may do better, but maybe not by much. We've seen how little effect WWE's promotion has on bumping numbers these days.


I think the impeachment is going to do huge numbers.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> I think the impeachment is going to do huge numbers.


It will eat into NXT and AEW but I don't know by how much. Most people don't believe anything will come of this impeachment thing anyway, since the Senate will ultimately decide to keep Trump on. I don't think it will hurt AEW and NXT as much as the World Series Game 7 did.


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> It will eat into NXT and AEW but I don't know by how much. Most people don't believe anything will come of this impeachment thing anyway, since the Senate will ultimately decide to keep Trump on. I don't think it will hurt AEW and NXT as much as the World Series Game 7 did.


We'll see but just for that i don't see NXT and AEW gaining viewers.


----------



## llj

rbl85 said:


> We'll see but just for that i don't see NXT and AEW gaining viewers.


i definitely think they will lose some. I think 600k for both or worse, but maybe better than 500k like it was vs World Series.


----------



## MrThortan

There seemed to be a lot of competition last night. I don't think I saw either AEW or NXT trending on twitter, though that doesn't indicate too much. 600k for both isn't a bad estimate


----------



## imthegame19

Found presale code online and bought two Revolution tickets already! Got two seats in 125 section for 90 dollars a ticket. I can't wait to see Moxley/Jericho title match!


----------



## RainmakerV2

Nothing yet?


----------



## StreetProfitsfan

Seems like nxt won demo and viewership so it's going to be 3 long weeks of folks telling us aew is dying 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jonhern

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> NXT should win the week with ease. AEW was basically a nothing episode. Dunno where Mox even was.


Im guessing japan getting ready for WK


----------



## Ace

This weeks rating aside, this seems like a pendulum shift.

AEW just isn't producing what fans wanted - Meltzer was right in that NXT is the alternative fans were looking for.

AEW really needs to sign some stars and pushing the names again. Roster is the pits.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Nxt 795k

Aew 683k.

Lol. Keep not putting Mox and MJF on the show, BRILLIANT


----------



## AEWMoxley

LOL this show is hopeless without Moxley.

First episode Moxley misses and they get smashed in total viewers and lost the demo for the first time.


----------



## Ace

They've got to make some big name signings and start pushing their stars.

Only hurt the star power of Omega and hurt the company by having him in the midcard putting other guys over.


----------



## Oracle

Pretty bad December was easily the worst month of product theyve put out. 

Hope they have some fresh new things in the New year because if they dont that rating is only gonna tumble down further.


----------



## Buhalovski

Numbers keep decreasing, people acting like its not a big deal are hopeless.


----------



## RiverFenix

Well earned blow out loss. AEW would have been hurt more with the impeachment stuff because they have the much less established viewer base, and that was history happening BUT they offered a garbage show culminating with the reveal of John Silver and partner in the Dark Order.


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Push Mox as World Champ immediately. Don’t even wait on Revolution. Jericho is killing AEW in the champion role. 

Push MJF and The Elite to the top. No more messing around. 

Get an actual producer to run the shows production. Honestly Eric Bischoff in this role, and this role only i.e. “Kevin Dunn,” could help them TREMENDOUSLY.

Make some damn signings that matter. Killer Kross should have gotten a blank check and he should have unmasked at the end as the leader of the Dark Order. That would have brought serious hype to get us to 1/1.

They need to open the checkbook. I can’t see where Kahn has spent even close to $100 million. It’s a skeleton company that has lost its hype.


----------



## Ace

They need a reset.

This Dark Order shit is low card crap someone like Omega and The Bucks should not be involved with.

Jericho, MJF and Moxley are doing fine, the rest aren't doing it for me.


----------



## RiverFenix

They're a Moxley February/March opt-out away from being done already. Keep up with the circle jerk angles with Brandon Cutler eventually being a big reveal. Hey we're up against Balor vs Cole, let's have the first few minutes of Pentagon prancing about spamming his catch phrase. Then after a major Fenix botch, let's half ass tease a break up before running a clunky backstage segment where we're supposed to care about Nakazawa - and then go to a PIP commercial break while most of this even happens.


----------



## Ace

TKO Wrestling said:


> Push Mox as World Champ immediately. Don’t even wait on Revolution. Jericho is killing AEW in the champion role.
> 
> Push MJF and The Elite to the top. No more messing around.
> 
> Get an actual producer to run the shows production. Honestly Eric Bischoff in this role, and this role only i.e. “Kevin Dunn,” could help them TREMENDOUSLY.
> 
> Make some damn signings that matter. Killer Kross should have gotten a blank check and he should have unmasked at the end as the leader of the Dark Order. That would have brought serious hype to get us to 1/1.
> 
> They need to open the checkbook. I can’t see where Kahn has spent even close to $100 million. It’s a skeleton company that has lost its hype.


 Kenny needs to go into the main event/upper card.

Let him do what got him over - let him produce classics that gets people watching.



DetroitRiverPhx said:


> They're a Moxley February/March opt-out away from being done already. Keep up with the circle jerk angles with Brandon Cutler eventually being a big reveal. Hey we're up against Balor vs Cole, let's have the first few minutes of Pentagon prancing about spamming his catch phrase. Then after a major Fenix botch, let's half ass tease a break up before running a clunky backstage segment where we're supposed to care about Nakazawa - and then go to a PIP commercial break while most of this even happens.


 That's the problem - outside Jericho, Moxley, Omega, Cody, MJF and The Bucks, they don't have any real stars.

They need to sign some big names to strengthen the roster and go from there. The geeks they have aren't going to cut it although I see something in Sammy and Darby Allin, but they have to wait a couple years for them to be there.



TKO Wrestling said:


> Push Mox as World Champ immediately. Don’t even wait on Revolution. Jericho is killing AEW in the champion role.
> 
> Push MJF and The Elite to the top. No more messing around.
> 
> Get an actual producer to run the shows production. Honestly Eric Bischoff in this role, and this role only i.e. “Kevin Dunn,” could help them TREMENDOUSLY.
> 
> Make some damn signings that matter. Killer Kross should have gotten a blank check and he should have unmasked at the end as the leader of the Dark Order. That would have brought serious hype to get us to 1/1.
> 
> They need to open the checkbook. I can’t see where Kahn has spent even close to $100 million. It’s a skeleton company that has lost its hype.


He should have given Orton an empty check. Would have been a massive get and fired a massive shot.

Instead we've got a hollow roster with only Jericho and Mox the only real stars.


----------



## Jedah

rbl85 said:


> I think the impeachment is going to do huge numbers.


It didn't, trust me. That shit was losing viewership even during the pitch of the hearings. It's catnip for left wing twitter concentrated in big coastal cities, but nobody else is gonna actually watch that shit on TV. Impeachment had nothing to do with this.

They've been putting on shows of doubtful quality compared to NXT since Full Gear, and it showed last night. They're gonna have to do better.

Especially now that Shayna's WOAT title reign is FINALLY over. I myself will now give NXT a chance.


----------



## Alright_Mate

AEW got a rating they deserved.

First eight weeks the product felt fresh and fun.

Past four weeks the product has been nothing more than Indy style garbage.

Over the past two days I've caught up on four episodes of NXT, first time I've properly watched it since April, the match quality has been far better than AEW in recent weeks and they currently have better angles going on.

AEW need to up their game, ending a show with Dark Order giving masks to two jobbers ain't gonna cut it.


----------



## Derek30

No excuses for that one. They got taken to the wood shed. No Moxley is basically conceding the night.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Give Mox the belt. The Jericho memeing championship reign has run its course. Thats enough. 

Put MJF on the damn show and let Wardlow show his physique and dominate people.

Stop with 15 minute tag matches with no stakes. People are obviously not interested. At all.

Put some gimmicks on this stuff. Do a cage match, a ladder match, first blood, etc. You have 4 months between ppvs so you can do mini blowoffs on Dynamite. 

Showcase Hager and Dustin more. People know their faces and they could have a great match.

Put the womens title on someone who looks like an adult that can speak english.



Just some stuff off the top of my head.


----------



## kingfrass44

No more excuses From Melzer


----------



## MrThortan

That's a bummer. AEW certainly needs to do better. I am not going to act as though I know the secret recipe to make that happen though.


----------



## Derek30

RainmakerV2 said:


> Give Mox the belt. The Jericho memeing championship reign has run its course. Thats enough.
> 
> Put MJF on the damn show and let Wardlow show his physique and dominate people.
> 
> Stop with 15 minute tag matches with no stakes. People are obviously not interested. At all.
> 
> Put some gimmicks on this stuff. Do a cage match, a ladder match, first blood, etc. You have 4 months between ppvs so you can do mini blowoffs on Dynamite.
> 
> Showcase Hager and Dustin more. People know their faces and they could have a great match.
> 
> Put the womens title on someone who looks like an adult that can speak english.
> 
> 
> 
> Just some stuff off the top of my head.


Yeah, time to let Mox run roughshod over the Inner Circle

And, if I'm looking long term here, I have Omega be the one to turn eventually and do whatever you can to implement portions of his cleaner gimmick. It would be a great way to eventually lead up to your Moxley/Omega money feud for the title


----------



## Jedah

Honestly, everything outside the men's singles division is a mess. That's pretty much the only reason to keep watching right now. Jericho, Mox, MJF, and Cody are saving the show, but outside of that, shit feels random.

Put the tag titles on Santana and Ortiz. Why are they waiting? They started out with this hot Inner Circle angle but have basically turned everyone else except Jericho into a geek. If you're gonna have a group like that, go all the damn way with it. Why make the others lose all the time? Make them into as big a deal as you possibly can so shit feels HUGE when Moxley starts FUCKING THEM UP. What's so hard about this? The model is there with the nWo.

As I've said before, something has to give with Riho's title reign. She's endearing but she needs an actual rivalry which she has still yet to have. If she can't have one, just let Kris beat her next week. At least she has a feud with Brandi's group going now. And by the way, Baker is NOT the answer.

And as I've also said before, they need to strengthen the midcard with some stories. A secondary/midcard title needs to come. It's a useful crutch if nothing else.

Creative freedom helps so damn much and gives the show so much energy but it's meaningless if it isn't channeled properly.


----------



## AEWMoxley

RainmakerV2 said:


> Give Mox the belt. The Jericho memeing championship reign has run its course. Thats enough.
> 
> Put MJF on the damn show and let Wardlow show his physique and dominate people.
> 
> Stop with 15 minute tag matches with no stakes. People are obviously not interested. At all.
> 
> Put some gimmicks on this stuff. Do a cage match, a ladder match, first blood, etc. You have 4 months between ppvs so you can do mini blowoffs on Dynamite.
> 
> Showcase Hager and Dustin more. People know their faces and they could have a great match.
> 
> Put the womens title on someone who looks like an adult that can speak english.
> 
> 
> 
> Just some stuff off the top of my head.


I agree with most of this, but they've lost too many viewers and the damage may be irreparable. Wrestling fans have been conditioned for so long to hate wrestling because of the WWE. AEW was supposed to provide a fresh and exciting new alternative. They've done nothing but let fans down for the most part, much like WWE, and it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility that many fans who have stopped watching AEW in recent weeks may not come back, regardless of what they do.


----------



## Chan Hung

Wow what a shit rating for AEW. Pretty Sad. NXT wins again. And when you're limited with star power what does AEW do, they dont add the stars. Yes i get its part of a storyline, but you should NOT sacrifice viewership for that.


----------



## Jedah

They might have to look into adding more PPVs, too.

Because I tell you, the build to Full Gear was the most incredible wrestling TV I've seen in 20 years.

After Full Gear, it just hasn't been. Obviously better than Raw and SD, but that's not a high bar to clear, while NXT has stepped up. They need more direction and 4 PPVs a year might not give them enough.

The dichotomy between the pre and post-Full Gear shows is huge.


----------



## MrThortan

I don't know about adding more star power. They don't even have enough to time show most of their roster as it is. They just need to use what they have better and possibly sign some key figures. I don't agree that AEW basically needs to copy TNA to succeed.


----------



## RiverFenix

EVP's already ran out of ideas - writing two hour shows a week is hard. Hey let's push Nakazawa (Omega's BFF), Brandon Cutler (Bucks BFF), Brandi (Cody's wife) and hire Dr Luther (Jericho friend) - yeah, not obvious what is happening here. Also keep the titles on SCU, you know the guys who the Bucks will have over for Christmas Dinner. And keep that women's title on Riho, the woman Kenny has known/teamed with for a decade...


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Expected. Even I didn't watch the show last night. No Moxley, no MJF. Lack of storylines, tag team matches that lead to nothing. Do something else guys.


----------



## Jedah

Now, you don't want to panic, because it's December and viewership will be down anyway, but they really should take this as feedback to change direction.

As an example this week - I like what they've done with the Dark Order and the idea of them compelling people to join. Sounds like a good midcard story, but they should have AT LEAST announced that someone big was joining on January 1, not just leave it with two jobbers getting masks.

They also might want to hire a good lead writer who can come up with stories if need be (obviously not to script promos).


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

LET'S DO MORE PROMOS AND VIGNETTES!!!!! 

Hire Kevin Dunne! Hire Eric Bischoff! Hire Vince Russo! Hire everybody!!!!!

I love this place.


----------



## Dark Emperor

Oh dear..... terrible rating.

But....but....Spectrum, oops can't use that excuse this week.
But....but....key demo, AEW has all the young and hip fans, oops not this week either.
But....but....did NXT have main main roster stars appearing? Nope not this week.
But....but....impeachment hearing? DIdn't seem to affect NXT much...
But....but....DvR numbers from Meltzer. Yes we will go with that. I'm sure everyone has recorded it and AEW has barely lost any fans from debut....

*The truth is, as most of us stated, there is a clear downward trend that isn't stopping. But people are in denial. A decline was expected after debut, but not this many weeks in. They really need a big star somehow, anybody to put eyes back on product even if for a few short weeks. *


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Dark Emperor said:


> Oh dear..... terrible rating.
> 
> But....but....Spectrum, oops can't use that excuse this week.
> But....but....key demo, AEW has all the young and hip fans, oops not this week either.
> But....but....did NXT have main main roster stars appearing? Nope not this week.
> But....but....impeachment hearing? DIdn't seem to affect NXT much...
> But....but....DvR numbers from Meltzer. Yes we will go with that. I'm sure everyone has recorded it and AEW has barely lost any fans from debut....
> 
> *The truth is, as most of us stated, there is a clear downward trend that isn't stopping. But people are in denial. A decline was expected after debut, but not this many weeks in. They really need a big star somehow, anybody to put eyes back on product even if for a few short weeks. *


They need storylines. I wonder if Teddy Long is backstage because that's what it feels like right now. They will not get big stars. They need to work with what they've got.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Jedah said:


> They might have to look into adding more PPVs, too.
> 
> Because I tell you, the build to Full Gear was the most incredible wrestling TV I've seen in 20 years.
> 
> After Full Gear, it just hasn't been. Obviously better than Raw and SD, but that's not a high bar to clear, while NXT has stepped up. They need more direction and 4 PPVs a year might not give them enough.
> 
> The dichotomy between the pre and post-Full Gear shows is huge.


Exactly. 4 months between PPVs for a weekly show is just insane. You can't fill that much blank space so you get pointless stuff like Jericho vs. random tag team wrestlers. NWA is running monthly PPVs for Gods sakes. Why can't AEW at least do bi monthly? They dont have the roster to fill 4 months of empty space between PPVs. I dont get the business model here.


----------



## Jedah

Yeah, they should move the number up from 4 to 6.

February

April

June

August

October

December

Something like that. Gives you some breathing room but also leaves a lot less room for randomness.


----------



## The XL 2

They tried to out indy, out outlaw, and out high spot NXT, and that simply wasn't feasible with the amount of guys NXT has that can do that kind of shit, and do it better. People tuned in to see pro wrestling WCW 2.0, not indyreffic nonsense that isn't even good by indy standards. The Bucks suck, and they aren't stars, Omega had a shot to be an upper midcarder/floating main eventer but they jobbed him out, and most of their undercard is the shits and has no business being presented nationally. They had an amazing chance to be WCW 2.0 and had a ton of hype and buzz, and all that happened was the elite hired all their indy buddies and presented a bullshit outlaw indy show that no one outside of an obscure niche cares about. WWE has killed their viewership by heading in that direction and they had better guys when it comes to that style, AEW didn't stand a chance.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The XL 2 said:


> They tried to out indy, out outlaw, and out high spot NXT, and that simply wasn't feasible with the amount of guys NXT has that can do that kind of shit, and do it better. People tuned in to see pro wrestling WCW 2.0, not indyreffic nonsense that isn't even good by indy standards. The Bucks suck, and they aren't stars, Omega had a shot to be an upper midcarder/floating main eventer but they jobbed him out, and most of their undercard is the shits and has no business being presented nationally. They had an amazing chance to be WCW 2.0 and had a ton of hype and buzz, and all that happened was the elite hired all their indy buddies and presented a bullshit outlaw indy show that no one outside of an obscure niche cares about. WWE has killed their viewership by heading in that direction and they had better guys when it comes to that style, AEW didn't stand a chance.


it's early days so stop referring to them in past tense.

They just need to find out where they are going wrong.


----------



## ClintDagger

Jedah said:


> Now, you don't want to panic, because it's December and viewership will be down anyway, but they really should take this as feedback to change direction.
> 
> As an example this week - I like what they've done with the Dark Order and the idea of them compelling people to join. Sounds like a good midcard story, but they should have AT LEAST announced that someone big was joining on January 1, not just leave it with two jobbers getting masks.
> 
> They also might want to hire a good lead writer who can come up with stories if need be (obviously not to script promos).


I don’t know that it’s the pure rating that is panic worthy as much as the relative rating. They’re on the verge of falling out of the top 30. Anybody who isn’t worried about the long-term future by now doesn’t see the writing on the wall. They HAVE to turn things around at some point because the trend they are on is leading to death. It does seem like to me that the decision makers are just being stubborn at this point. The women’s division, Dark Order, smaller guys like Darby & Jungle Boy being in the mix against main eventers, SCU, Brandy Rhodes; all of that stuff is poison for ratings and yet week after week they are still pushing for that stuff for reasons of nepotism. WWE can get away with that kind of stuff but a startup can’t. It’s that simple.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The XL 2 said:


> They tried to out indy, out outlaw, and out high spot NXT, and that simply wasn't feasible with the amount of guys NXT has that can do that kind of shit, and do it better. People tuned in to see pro wrestling WCW 2.0, not indyreffic nonsense that isn't even good by indy standards. The Bucks suck, and they aren't stars, Omega had a shot to be an upper midcarder/floating main eventer but they jobbed him out, and most of their undercard is the shits and has no business being presented nationally. They had an amazing chance to be WCW 2.0 and had a ton of hype and buzz, and all that happened was the elite hired all their indy buddies and presented a bullshit outlaw indy show that no one outside of an obscure niche cares about. WWE has killed their viewership by heading in that direction and they had better guys when it comes to that style, AEW didn't stand a chance.



Exactly. I forgot who said it here, but they said something like.."people were tuning into see the rebirth of prime WCW Nitro, and instead they're getting PWG on TNT." Couldn't be more right.


----------



## Jedah

As usual, the sky is falling crowd takes one week and extrapolates it out.

I just ignore them at this point.


----------



## validreasoning

12.5 million combined watching CNN, Fox News and MSNBC at 9pm, each show tripling it's normal 18-49 rating


----------



## Chan Hung

Yep no MJF, no Mox and to be honest the main even with SCU and Bucks should not have headlined. SCU doesnt have star power, sorry its true.


----------



## RainmakerV2

validreasoning said:


> 12.5 million combined watching CNN, Fox News and MSNBC at 9pm, each show tripling it's normal 18-49 rating



Yet NXTs main audience is the over 50, (the audience that most watches news) and they did fine.

Stop reaching. This is a bad number. The WWE machine is winning. It doesnt make you a bad wrestling fan to say so. Its happened every single time.


----------



## validreasoning

WCW on TNT wouldn't do any better in late 2019

Nitro was averaging 2 million viewers in 2001 in the middle of the biggest boom since the early 50s, zero chance it even does 1 million in this environment of live streaming, Hulu, YouTube, DVR, WWE Network etc

If people were expecting WCW nitro 97 to return that's just highly unrealistic


----------



## Jedah

The main concern, as mentioned before, was the shrink in the demo and now NXT finally won in it. That demo doesn't seem as brand loyal as the over 50 crowd.



Chan Hung said:


> Yep no MJF, no Mox and to be honest the main even with SCU and Bucks should not have headlined. SCU doesnt have star power, sorry its true.


SCU's reign has been just...there.

I mean, they were fine as transitionals for Santana and Ortiz but it looks like that wasn't the case. Really bad decision for the Bucks to beat them last week. Made Full Gear meaningless.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yet NXTs main audience is the over 50, (the audience that most watches news) and they did fine.
> 
> Stop reaching. This is a bad number. The WWE machine is winning. It doesnt make you a bad wrestling fan to say so. Its happened every single time.


maybe the aew audience are more intelligent than the wwe audience


----------



## Deathiscoming

683K ?! That's way too much! They should be getting around 300-550K..


----------



## The XL 2

They didn't take this shit seriously and that's sad. They should have tried to sign guys like Eli Drake, Killer Kross, Jacob Fatu, Tom Lawlor, Ken Anderson, Nick Aldis, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc, real pro wrestlers who can work, who can talk, who look the part. If some of those guys weren't available, they should have struck up working relationships with companies like Impact and/or MLW so they could exchange talent and get those guys on their TV. The roster they assembled for the most part was goofy as fuck, a joke and doomed to fail from the start.


----------



## Dark Emperor

RainmakerV2 said:


> Yet NXTs main audience is the over 50, (the audience that most watches news) and they did fine.
> 
> Stop reaching. This is a bad number. The WWE machine is winning. It doesnt make you a bad wrestling fan to say so. Its happened every single time.





validreasoning said:


> WCW on TNT wouldn't do any better in late 2019
> 
> Nitro was averaging 2 million viewers in 2001 in the middle of the biggest boom since the early 50s, zero chance it even does 1 million in this environment of live streaming, Hulu, YouTube, DVR, WWE Network etc
> 
> If people were expecting WCW nitro 97 to return that's just highly unrealistic


To be fair, validreasoning is right. He's a solid poster and not a fanboy with his fingers in his ears. The big networks must have had some effect but it shows AEW is not must see as any sign of competition and we notice a significant drop in viewers.


----------



## The XL 2

RainmakerV2 said:


> Exactly. I forgot who said it here, but they said something like.."people were tuning into see the rebirth of prime WCW Nitro, and instead they're getting PWG on TNT." Couldn't be more right.


Anyone who knows anything about the business saw this shit coming. If PWG had mainstream appeal, they'd be on national TV instead of running shows in high school gyms in front of 23 people. WWE, who is a global company with essentially a monopoly on the business has basically killed their viewership largely because they've adopted a lot of the indy style with indy type performers, and they have way better guys for that style than AEW has. They were fucked and didn't even know it. I feel sorry for guys like Jericho and Jim Ross who are legends who know pro wrestling and probably signed up for something very different.


----------



## RiverFenix

Khan should bring Corgan in as a partner and given him and Lagana the book. I half think the EVP's would be happy to give up their total booking power (Omega especially), just like to have a lot of say in their personal storylines. Merge NWA and AEW.


----------



## bdon

Ace said:


> They've got to make some big name signings and start pushing their stars.
> 
> Only hurt the star power of Omega and hurt the company by having him in the midcard putting other guys over.


But I read here that Omega would have no problem getting himself over and was just buying himself time.

Stupid fucking booking. I get not putting the title on Cody and the Bucks. I get having Omega lose to Jericho, but you can’t keep booking your most over stars as weak.

SCU had no reason to win last night. The Bucks were due for the win, could have used that to propel other tag teams into the title picture vs them, such as Lucha Bros and PnP.


----------



## The XL 2

validreasoning said:


> WCW on TNT wouldn't do any better in late 2019
> 
> Nitro was averaging 2 million viewers in 2001 in the middle of the biggest boom since the early 50s, zero chance it even does 1 million in this environment of live streaming, Hulu, YouTube, DVR, WWE Network etc
> 
> If people were expecting WCW nitro 97 to return that's just highly unrealistic


Lmao, WCW was going against the NFL and Raw in 2001 and still pulled in mid 2 ratings, they'd murder AEW head to head and draw and least 4 times the audience that AEW is doing now.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The XL 2 said:


> Anyone who knows anything about the business saw this shit coming. If PWG had mainstream appeal, they'd be on national TV instead of running shows in high school gyms in front of 23 people. WWE, who is a global company with essentially a monopoly on the business has basically killed their viewership largely because they've adopted a lot of the indy style with indy type performers, and they have way better guys for that style than AEW has. They were fucked and didn't even know it. I feel sorry for guys like Jericho and Jim Ross who are legends who know pro wrestling and probably signed up for something very different.


Didnt the Bucks say last week they "could not wait to do a PWG style match on national tv?" You dumb fuckers. Like, cmon. Tony Khan has to grow a set here and put a stop to the dumb shit.


----------



## The XL 2

Jedah said:


> As usual, the sky is falling crowd takes one week and extrapolates it out.
> 
> I just ignore them at this point.


You goofy fucking marks are going to be saying the same shit even if they're drawing 50K every week. Their audience is freefalling weekly and they've been on TV for barely 2 months. Wake up.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Vince must be so happy today..and laughing his ass off. All it took him to beat them is 8-10 bloody weeks! 

Also NxT seems like a far superior and balanced product (though I feel its too loaded on women's wrestlecrap)..they got the vanilla midgets, technical wizards like Cameron Grimes, cruiserweights, ginormous guys like Killain Dain, that bro guy MMA-style wrestler, Keith Lee, AND they got Damien Priest too! I see 'star' written all over Priest. 

What does AEW have? Midcard Moxley, young bucks, an outta shape Jericho, and flippy vanilla midgets and spot monkeys?


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Reggie Dunlop said:


> LET'S DO MORE PROMOS AND VIGNETTES!!!!!


Actually, yes. Maybe this way, people would be invested in other people than Mox/Omega/Cody/Jericho


----------



## Dark Emperor

Only one man can save the day.* Mark 'RATINGS' Henry!*

Give him whatever he wants to come out out retirement, bring back 'Hall of Pain' where he's squashing indy geeks on a weekly basis, maybe even 2 or 3 at a time. Put the title on the guy and watch casuals come back in droves & the ratings spike upwards!

Then have Mox or someone with star potential finally beat him!


----------



## shandcraig

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Khan should bring Corgan in as a partner and given him and Lagana the book. I half think the EVP's would be happy to give up their total booking power (Omega especially), just like to have a lot of say in their personal storylines. Merge NWA and AEW.



Its fucking insane how good both those guys are. Im shocked that they can take so many wrestlers and instantly get them over and book a show based on Characters,Story telling and promos with still having nice ring matches. I fucking hated every second of Aron stevens Sorry The shooter stevens until he was in NWA. I think its cus no one could get him over and book him right until these guys. They make you so engaged with the people talking and the characters and story telling.This is how wrestling thrived.


----------



## iarwain

I'm not surprised NXT beat AEW this week. They had two huge matches with Adam Cole vs. a former main roster star (Finn Balor), and their new anointed women's champ Rhea Ripley against Shayna Baszler, who has held the belt for over a year. Besides which, Baszler is a former MMA wrestler who has legit cred. I prefer AEW myself, but could you imagine Riho beating her in a real match?

NXT has the recipe to beat AEW now. Sprinkle in some main roster stars and give away PPV level matches on TV for free. It's already been reported NXT is going to get a major presence at Wrestlemania and the Royal Rumble. This wouldn't be happening if it weren't for AEW. The WWE will pull out every stop to destroy them.

I'm sure impeachment hurt the overall ratings. AEW needs time to grow and to build its audience. The only question is will they get it?


----------



## Jedah

The XL 2 said:


> You goofy fucking marks are going to be saying the same shit even if they're drawing 50K every week. Their audience is freefalling weekly and they've been on TV for barely 2 months. Wake up.


Uh, except they're not freefalling anymore. They found the range between this on the low end and around 850 on the high end, which everyone expected would happen at some point.

Not great, but certainly not freefalling.

Of course, I expect this to be jettisoned in favor of the usual cliched "anti-mark" memes.


----------



## arch.unleash

Whenever I put this show on I find random tag matches with masked spot monkeys, The Young Bucks producing the worst wresting off all time every week, some meme fucks wrestling the champion, a group of 5 men in a roster that has 20 wrestlers or something. I gave them a chance, but this show is cold or plain sucks when there's a tag match, NXT is 10 times better and deserves to win.


----------



## DOTL

Deathiscoming said:


> Vince must be so happy today..and laughing his ass off. All it took him to beat them is 8-10 bloody weeks!
> 
> Also NxT seems like a far superior and balanced product (though I feel its too loaded on women's wrestlecrap)..they got the vanilla midgets, technical wizards like Cameron Grimes, cruiserweights, ginormous guys like Killain Dain, that bro guy MMA-style wrestler, Keith Lee, AND they got Damien Priest too! I see 'star' written all over Priest.
> 
> What does AEW have? Midcard Moxley, young bucks, an outta shape Jericho, and flippy vanilla midgets and spot monkeys?


Firstly, Vince isn't booking NXT. Secondly from what you guys were talking NXT was going to squash AEW day one.

Lastly, did AEW lose because it is filled with geeks are is it losing because NXT is better? Those are two different things.


----------



## Jedah

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Khan should bring Corgan in as a partner and given him and Lagana the book. I half think the EVP's would be happy to give up their total booking power (Omega especially), just like to have a lot of say in their personal storylines. Merge NWA and AEW.


Not a bad idea at this point. NXT clearly didn't see AEW coming on so strong, but has adapted stepped up its game. AEW needs to make some reforms.

What they really should try to do most of all is bury the hatched and make a working relationship with NJPW to the extent they can. Jericho and Mox are already gonna be at Wrestle Kingdom. It shouldn't be pulling teeth to get both sides talking.


----------



## Chan Hung

Well there's not much good news except in a couple months Harper should be arriving and then maybe Revival soon. But that still not major star power. Hell even Ryback should probably return. They need one major star from WWE to really shake things up. Sadly the lack of security from AEW (since they're super young and new) is what hurts established big names from jumping.


----------



## Taroostyles

As expected everyone has their own ideas for what they think will increase ratings but you have to look at this objectively. Last nights show was mostly universally praised other than a few questionable booking calls, the shows are good. 

They need an overarching storyline and they need to stop trying to get everybody over. Guys like Sky, Darby, and Jungle Boy I get but Silver and Reynolds in your main event angle was a bad call. 

They are hitting growing pains right now, NXT had a strong show last night and deserved the win. They've still won 9 out of 12 weeks, I still think they are a few weeks away from a panic.


----------



## Oracle

Marty desperately needs to turn up in January. 

that will get more eyes on the product instantly


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

I’d rather this promotion goes out of business before they turn into whatever the hell it is half you people think it should be. Obviously the last 4 weeks or so they’ve been trying all kinds of shit to allay the criticisms of all the armchair experts, and the shows have been shit for it. Either go back to what made them hot in the first place, or just fold the fucking thing now.


----------



## Jedah

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’d rather this promotion goes out of business before they turn into whatever the hell it is half you people think it should be. Obviously the last 4 weeks or so they’ve been trying all kinds of shit to allay the criticisms of all the armchair experts, and the shows have been shit for it. Either go back to what made them hot in the first place, or just fold the fucking thing now.


Nah, the biggest problem is that there's just been so much time to fill.

Whereas in the first 6 weeks they had a PPV to build so things were more focused. It's only now that they're starting to slowly build up since Revolution was announced, but the 6 week interregnum came just as NXT was starting to step up.

Hence why they really should bump the PPV count from 4 to 6. A two month span between major shows instead of 3 would solve a lot of the randomness that's come in the episodes since Full Gear.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’d rather this promotion goes out of business before they turn into whatever the hell it is half you people think it should be. Obviously the last 4 weeks or so they’ve been trying all kinds of shit to allay the criticisms of all the armchair experts, and the shows have been shit for it. Either go back to what made them hot in the first place, or just fold the fucking thing now.



Well that first sentence is pretty obvious. What exactly made them hot in the first place that they dont do now?


----------



## Gh0stFace

Good try guys. NXT finally kicked you to #30 after you debuted at #1. Key demos loss is the nail in the coffin. If you're not going to put the belts on the Bucks at least give Dark Order real legitimacy by having Page join them or something. I was let down big time by that Dynamite finish.


----------



## McNugget




----------



## DOTL

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Khan should bring Corgan in as a partner and given him and Lagana the book. I half think the EVP's would be happy to give up their total booking power (Omega especially), just like to have a lot of say in their personal storylines. Merge NWA and AEW.


I agree that AEW needs to merge with NWA. The NWA World Championship needs to become the belt of belts again. Do an invasion angle, that would be fire.

One issue I have with AEW is thatr it's so focused on giving people opportunities that it's forgetting to leveraging pre-existing stars first. There needs to be a Mox in every division.


----------



## rbl85

Gh0stFace said:


> Good try guys. NXT finally kicked you to #30 after *you debuted at #1*. Key demos loss is the nail in the coffin. If you're not going to put the belts on the Bucks at least give Dark Order real legitimacy by having Page join them or something. * I was let down big time by that Dynamite finis*h.


?

You know that the finish is probably the segment who loss the less numbers of viewers ?

Was it good ? no but you can't put a overall rating on the last 3min of the show


----------



## Gh0stFace

Deathiscoming said:


> Vince must be so happy today..and laughing his ass off. All it took him to beat them is 8-10 bloody weeks!
> 
> Also NxT seems like a far superior and balanced product (though I feel its too loaded on women's wrestlecrap)..they got the vanilla midgets, technical wizards like Cameron Grimes, cruiserweights, ginormous guys like Killain Dain, that bro guy MMA-style wrestler, Keith Lee, AND they got Damien Priest too! I see 'star' written all over Priest.
> 
> What does AEW have? Midcard Moxley, young bucks, an outta shape Jericho, and flippy vanilla midgets and spot monkeys?


LOL @ WWE marks acting like Vince won. Unwatchable BS like RAW & Smackdown must be what they want.


----------



## fabi1982

Oracle said:


> Marty desperately needs to turn up in January.
> 
> that will get more eyes on the product instantly


And who besides the people already watching know about Marty? Why should anyone who doesnt watch now tune in when Marty comes? I like him, he is a rare species of people who oozes charisma, but he will not make more people watch sadly.


----------



## Gh0stFace

arch.unleash said:


> Whenever I put this show on I find random tag matches with masked spot monkeys, The Young Bucks producing the worst wresting off all time every week, some meme fucks wrestling the champion, a group of 5 men in a roster that has 20 wrestlers or something. I gave them a chance, but this show is cold or plain sucks when there's a tag match, NXT is 10 times better and deserves to win.


If NXT wins and AEW folds, it will be only a matter of time that NXT will be just as unwatchable as RAW or Smackdown. So you better hope AEW succeeds, WWE mark, it's in your best interest.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

this guy's deadass celebrating like his life depends on it LMAO

very sad, OP!


----------



## DOTL

WWE marks are a sad, sad thing. They insist that WWE is better all around, but can't reconcile the difference in quality between the black and gold brand and WWE's own flagship brands.

Figure out what type of wrestling you like first before you hurt yourself trying to compare quality outside of the WWE.


----------



## .christopher.

How anyone is surprised is beyond me.

Like I said after week one, it's just an indy show that happens to have JR and Jericho on it, and that'll NEVER do well in the long run.

Sadly, like Cornette said, the writing was on the wall when you knew the elite or whatever they're called were going to be heavily involved. What they perceive to be wrestling is awful, and it only appeals to a few hardcore fans, and it's putting the other million that were giving it a go off.


----------



## Deathiscoming

Gh0stFace said:


> LOL @ WWE marks acting like Vince won. Unwatchable BS like RAW & Smackdown must be what they want.


C'mon no need for this lame old "Us vs Them" mentality. 

Raw and SD are dreadful too. But seems like Dynamite is even worse! Enjoy the decline..

I for one feel happy every time Raw hits a "record low viewership" and now AEW...I'm happy!


----------



## Garty

Gh0stFace said:


> Good try guys. NXT finally kicked you to #30 after you debuted at #1. Key demos loss is the nail in the coffin. If you're not going to put the belts on the Bucks at least give Dark Order real legitimacy by having Page join them or something. I was let down big time by that Dynamite finish.


Yeah, I heard that they're shutting down as of December 31st 2019. Again, same response, same "opinion", same talking points, so...

 You're welcome.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Deathiscoming said:


> C'mon no need for this lame old "Us vs Them" mentality.
> 
> Raw and SD are dreadful too. But seems like Dynamite is even worse! Enjoy the decline..
> 
> I for one feel happy every time Raw hits a "record low viewership" and now AEW...I'm happy!


Damn if someone or something has to fail in order for you to be happy, you must be a sad, miserable loser. I genuinely feel sorry for you.


----------



## Garty

By the way, this will be locked. Give this goof a "time-out".


----------



## Gh0stFace

Garty said:


> By the way, this will be locked. Give this goof a "time-out".


LOL relax I'm an AEW fan. Just lowkey trolling but genuinely dissapointed by that Dynamite finish. If Bucks would've won or if Page would've joined the Dark Order I would be happy.


----------



## rbl85

Now let's see the number for the first quarter, i bet you that the number is already low.



Gh0stFace said:


> LOL relax I'm an AEW fan. Just lowkey trolling *but genuinely dissapointed by that Dynamite finish.* If Bucks would've won or if Page would've joined the Dark Order I would be happy.


Do you really think the finish (the last 3min) change anything for the ratings ?


----------



## shandcraig

DOTL said:


> I agree that AEW needs to merge with NWA. The NWA World Championship needs to become the belt of belts again. Do an invasion angle, that would be fire.
> 
> One issue I have with AEW is thatr it's so focused on giving people opportunities that it's forgetting to leveraging pre-existing stars first. There needs to be a Mox in every division.



As Nick Aldis says he is the Real worlds champion. I think NWA is going places again,It will take time but if you saw this weeks episode its improved big time from last tapings. they know how to get people over


----------



## Deathiscoming

Gh0stFace said:


> Damn if someone or something has to fail in order for you to be happy, you must be a sad, miserable loser. I genuinely feel sorry for you.


You got that right! I felt damn happy upon learning of AEW's ratings, or Raw's record low viewership (I've been yearning for them to go under 2M for a while now!)... I really did. 

And I'm going to feel happy and great every time Dynamite fails or declines just a little more..little by little! Not because I like or care for NxT or Vince or anything... But because my life is sad and completely sucks! Such joy in these ratings threads for me...

I can't wait for NXT to completely butcher AEW in the ratings. 400-500K viewers!


----------



## Chrome

validreasoning said:


> 12.5 million combined watching CNN, Fox News and MSNBC at 9pm, each show tripling it's normal 18-49 rating


Shhh.... that's gonna hurt the "AEW is dying" narrative that people are running with right now.

They do need to change some shit up though. The meaningless tag matches are getting repetitive now, and there's no excuse not to have Moxley and MJF on there every week. They don't have to wrestle every week, but should appear on the show in some capacity. And jobbing Omega out has hurt them too tbh. It's still a fun show to watch, but it's got its fair share of issues that they need to clean up.


----------



## ClintDagger

Taroostyles said:


> Last nights show was mostly universally praised


I think last night’s show was the most criticized yet. Even big AEW fans like myself had to be very critical of it. No Mox, no MJF, a very polarizing close. I think you were missing a lot of feedback if you think it was universally praised.


----------



## RainmakerV2

ClintDagger said:


> I think last night’s show was the most criticized yet. Even big AEW fans like myself had to be very critical of it. No Mox, no MJF, a very polarizing close. I think you were missing a lot of feedback if you think it was universally praised.


Some of these people live in an echo chamber where everything AEW does is universally praised. I thought the build up to Full Gear had some of the best network TV pro wrestling I have seen in years. The last month has completly sucked. Sucked shit. The numbers reflect it. Like I said, and I literally mean this, you could put two goats fucking in the middle of the ring and some posters here would call it the match of the year and great storytelling because it happened in an AEW ring


----------



## Gh0stFace

Deathiscoming said:


> You got that right! I felt damn happy upon learning of AEW's ratings, or Raw's record low viewership (I've been yearning for them to go under 2M for a while now!)... I really did.
> 
> And I'm going to feel happy and great every time Dynamite fails or declines just a little more..little by little! Not because I like or care for NxT or Vince or anything... But because my life is sad and completely sucks! Such joy in these ratings threads for me...
> 
> I can't wait for NXT to completely butcher AEW in the ratings. 400-500K viewers!


Ummmm... I'm at loss of words


----------



## rbl85

Chrome said:


> Shhh.... that's gonna hurt the "AEW is dying" narrative that people are running with right now.
> 
> They do need to change some shit up though. The meaningless tag matches are getting repetitive now, and there's no excuse not to have Moxley and MJF on there every week. They don't have to wrestle every week, but should appear on the show in some capacity. And jobbing Omega out has hurt them too tbh. It's still a fun show to watch, but it's got its fair share of issues that they need to clean up.


Before AEW started i remember a lot of people saying "i hope the Elite are going to push themselve right at the start" and now people ask for them to push The Elite….


----------



## Deathiscoming

Gh0stFace said:


> Ummmm... I'm at loss of words


Oops,my bad I guess! Didn't intend for you to be at a loss for words...


----------



## DOTL

Deathiscoming said:


> You got that right! I felt damn happy upon learning of AEW's ratings, or Raw's record low viewership (I've been yearning for them to go under 2M for a while now!)... I really did.
> 
> And I'm going to feel happy and great every time Dynamite fails or declines just a little more..little by little! Not because I like or care for NxT or Vince or anything... But because my life is sad and completely sucks! Such joy in these ratings threads for me...
> 
> I can't wait for NXT to completely butcher AEW in the ratings. 400-500K viewers!



I hate to break this to you, but AEW has a higher ceiling than NXT. I can easily imagine AEW recovering from its ratings issues, but I cannot for the life of me see NXT recovering from a Vince McMahon issue.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> Before AEW started i remember a lot of people saying "i hope the Elite are going to push themselve right at the start" and now people ask for them to push The Elite….



Its not so much "push the elite" as it is the show needs a central focus. The Cody vs. Jericho and beginning of Elite vs. Inner Circle feud had a great focus to it and held the show together tremendously. Now they're just throwing shit at a wall week by week. Oh this dark cult group, and now Brandi is leading around some Uncle Fester looking fucker in a cult, and oh, if ya don't like that, heres Allie and a guy with a Monacle in another cult! Its just random shit. Theres no focus or overarching story at all which is what made the early episodes so great.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Deathiscoming said:


> Oops,my bad I guess! Didn't intend for you to be at a loss for words...


If your life is truly sad (and you're not trolling), I hope things get better. If you need a friend with opposing viewpoints, you can always hit me up.


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> Its not so much "push the elite" as it is the show needs a central focus. The Cody vs. Jericho and beginning of Elite vs. Inner Circle feud had a great focus to it and held the show together tremendously. Now they're just throwing shit at a wall week by week. Oh this dark cult group, and now Brandi is leading around some Uncle Fester looking fucker in a cult, and oh, if ya don't like that, heres Allie and a guy with a Monacle in another cult! Its just random shit. Theres no focus or overarching story at all which is what made the early episodes so great.


let's say between today and Jacksonville they say "ok this is not working we have to "erase" it".
How do they get rid of those things now ?


----------



## tducey

I watched the show last night, I'm all for an alternative to the WWE but from what I'm seeing witth AEW thus far it won't be them.


----------



## rbl85

tducey said:


> I watched the show last night, I'm all for an alternative to the WWE but from what I'm seeing witth AEW thus far it won't be them.


It's either AEW succeed or there will never be any alternative.


----------



## PavelGaborik

They got what they deserved ratings wise last night. 

Awful show.


----------



## RainmakerV2

rbl85 said:


> let's say between today and Jacksonville they say "ok this is not working we have to "erase" it".
> How do they get rid of those things now ?



They wont. Say what you want about WWE being boring and lame but at least I know what the story and overall focus of each show is. RAW is Rollins turning and dominating with AOP. Smackdown is Bray tormenting people and Corbin trying to take the locker room from Reigns. Now you can say the shows are boring and suck, and you may be right, but at least I know where they are going and whats going on. With AEW recently, I have no clue what the fuck anyone is doing or what their purpose is. Cody is feuding with 4 factions, they introduce this new stable and Cody just beats them clean, uh okay. Omega has Pac killing his friends, but is also lowkey feuding with Page, I mean what the fuck am I supposed to follow?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Garty said:


> By the way, this will be locked. Give this goof a "time-out".


Too many Walt Disney characters, mouses and goofs.


----------



## Deathiscoming

DOTL said:


> I hate to break this to you, but AEW has a higher ceiling that NXT. I can easily imagine AEW recovering from its ratings issues, but I cannot for the life of me see NXT recovering from a Vince McMahon issue.


Vince or no Vince, NxT doesn't appeal to me because vanilla midgets and women's wrestling that NxT seems to be centred around..don't appeal to me. As long as a show is built around guys like Adam Cole, Gargano, Balor, and a bunch of women, it'd hardly matter to me whether HHH was booking it or Vince was. Whether they fail or succeed, I lose either ways, unless if the show ISN'T built around 1)small guys 2)women. 

NxT (just like Raw and SD) may probably not recover from a "Vince McMahon issue". But can AEW recover from a 1)Spotmonkey flippy superkick spam 2)Atrocious women's wrestling 3)Freaky gimmicks/factions 4)Weirdos- that bald ****, Awesome Kong, Nyla Rose, Cassidy, Jurassic express 4)Lack of star power and 5)50-yr old out of shape wrestler as World Champion ...ISSUE?


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

RainmakerV2 said:


> They wont. Say what you want about WWE being boring and lame but at least I know what the story and overall focus of each show is. RAW is Rollins turning and dominating with AOP. Smackdown is Bray tormenting people and Corbin trying to take the locker room from Reigns. Now you can say the shows are boring and suck, and you may be right, but at least I know where they are going and whats going on. With AEW recently, I have no clue what the fuck anyone is doing or what their purpose is. Cody is feuding with 4 factions, they introduce this new stable and Cody just beats them clean, uh okay. Omega has Pac killing his friends, but is also lowkey feuding with Page, I mean what the fuck am I supposed to follow?


I completely agree with you here and I never ever thought I would.
I can understand that they want to introduce some complexity to the madness, but it is NOT needed. Not yet anyway.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Deathiscoming said:


> Vince or no Vince, NxT doesn't appeal to me because vanilla midgets and women's wrestling that NxT seems to be centred around..don't appeal to me. As long as a show is built around guys like Adam Cole, Gargano, Balor, and a bunch of women, it'd hardly matter to me whether HHH was booking it or Vince was. Whether they fail or succeed, I lose either ways, unless if the show ISN'T built around 1)small guys 2)women.
> 
> NxT (just like Raw and SD) may probably not recover from a "Vince McMahon issue". But can AEW recover from a 1)Spotmonkey flippy superkick spam 2)Atrocious women's wrestling 3)Freaky gimmicks/factions 4)Weirdos- that bald ****, Awesome Kong, Nyla Rose, Cassidy, Jurassic express 4)Lack of star power and 5)50-yr old out of shape wrestler as World Champion ...ISSUE?


You hate NXT except Cole & Balor too? I think I see you when I look in the mirror


----------



## DOTL

Deathiscoming said:


> NxT (just like Raw and SD) may probably not recover from a "Vince McMahon issue". But can AEW recover from a 1)Spotmonkey flippy superkick spam 2)Atrocious women's wrestling 3)Freaky gimmicks/factions 4)Weirdos- that bald ****, Awesome Kong, Nyla Rose, Cassidy, Jurassic express 4)Lack of star power and 5)50-yr old out of shape wrestler as World Champion ...ISSUE?


Yes. You might not get this, as your first memory of wrestling was probably in 2002, when WWE was the only game in town, but it is possible for a company to amend its ways after some trial and error. AEW has already done as much with it's match/promo ratio,


----------



## RapShepard

MrThortan said:


> I don't know about adding more star power. They don't even have enough to time show most of their roster as it is. They just need to use what they have better and possibly sign some key figures. I don't agree that AEW basically needs to copy TNA to succeed.


They have more than enough time to showcase their roster. I'm not a nostalgia "everything in the 90s was great" guy. But one thing the promotions of today could learn is that you don't need tv matches going 12+ minutes. Look at a Nitro or Raw from the MNW and see how many people and stories were presented in 2 hours. The key is short matches. Shorter matches gives you the chance to put action on the show put feature more stories, wrestlers, and funny enough matches. Long matches should be the incentive to buy PPVs or watch TV specials.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> It's either AEW succeed or there will never be any alternative.


That’s exactly why AEW doing so many of the things it is doing is a major red flag. Wrestling may not get another chance for another 20 years. You’re finally getting what I’ve been saying.

An estimated 683k is a pretty awful number. There’s no way for blind defenders to get away from that. It’s cooling and we haven’t hit the bottom. Will they drop below that magic 500k people made up from Dave Meltzer? It will be funny to read the defenses then.


----------



## Chan Hung

Oracle said:


> Marty desperately needs to turn up in January.
> 
> that will get more eyes on the product instantly


I'm sorry but Who? I don't know who that is and I'm not being sarcastic as I'm sure most casual they need to do something and whatever is happening at the moment unfortunately is not cutting it... at this stage sadly it's just hard cores that are watching the show no casuals


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> That’s exactly why AEW doing so many of the things it is doing is a major red flag. Wrestling may not get another chance for another 20 years. You’re finally getting what I’ve been saying.
> 
> An estimated 683k is a pretty awful number. There’s no way for blind defenders to get away from that. It’s cooling and we haven’t hit the bottom. Will they drop below that magic 500k people made up from Dave Meltzer? It will be funny to read the defenses then.


Like i said before if a new wrestling show want to be a real success then they need to bring stars who are not wrestlers.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Like i said before if a new wrestling show want to be a real success then they need to bring stars who are not wrestlers.


Or just be good.


----------



## RapShepard

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’d rather this promotion goes out of business before they turn into whatever the hell it is half you people think it should be. Obviously the last 4 weeks or so they’ve been trying all kinds of shit to allay the criticisms of all the armchair experts, and the shows have been shit for it. Either go back to what made them hot in the first place, or just fold the fucking thing now.


Come on don't be that guy on top of them being a new product it's entirely possible that what you think they should be is wrong, as well as what the people you disagree with is wrong. The likely answer to their issue is probably a combination of no real brand value at the moment, not enough story and world building, as well as matches not captivating people. It doesn't have to be this either or situation


----------



## rbl85

The Wood said:


> Or just be good.


No it will not be enough.

They'll need to have a dozen of good shows before casuals start watching it but if they bring a big youtuber (or other star) and announce it then they will have a huge gain in rating.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> Like i said before if a new wrestling show want to be a real success then they need to bring stars who are not wrestlers.


Kayfabe is dead and a different style of show is needed.

Think Netflix drama - gritty and realistic storylines, action outside of the ring. Story focused basically. Everything that happens on the show MUST be story focused. Meaningless matches is not the way to go


----------



## Chrome

RapShepard said:


> They have more than enough time to showcase their roster. I'm not a nostalgia "everything in the 90s was great" guy. But one thing the promotions of today could learn is that you don't need tv matches going 12+ minutes. Look at a Nitro or Raw from the MNW and see how many people and stories were presented in 2 hours. The key is short matches. Shorter matches gives you the chance to put action on the show put feature more stories, wrestlers, and funny enough matches. Long matches should be the incentive to buy PPVs or watch TV specials.


Agree with this, match time is still an issue they're having. I thought the Awesome Kong squash was done right because it showed Kong as dominant, and then got her character over with the hair cutting thing, as well as later on assisting Brandi in trying to get Kris Statlander to join them.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> WWE marks are a sad, sad thing. They insist that WWE is better all around, but can't reconcile the difference in quality between the black and gold brand and WWE's own flagship brands.
> 
> Figure out what type of wrestling you like first before you hurt yourself trying to compare quality outside of the WWE.


Christ sounding like a sore loser [emoji23]. AEW is doing fine and will be okay. But these meltdowns some of you are having because AEWost one week on all metrics is hilarious. As far as main roster versus AEW I mean quality is subjective what isn't subjective is that AEW isn't close to the main roster numbers. So do you really want to bring up the main roster when NXT is the one running the same night as AEW.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

Can't be surprised with the ratings tbh 

They need to do better story telling - Too much all over the place as others have mentioned. 

Dark Order is a cool gimmick just don't have the right guys playing that role Grayson and Evil Uno aren't scary at all. 

Brandi and Kong is god awful that story-line needs to be abandoned right away. 

Maybe have a women's match once every month on Dynamite that allows more important TV time for bigger potential stars on the roster. 

I'm getting worried they'll need to dig deep in 2020 because with WM season approaching it could be hard time fourth coming for them.


----------



## USAUSA1

If only Lucha Underground had a billionaire owner and TNT.......


----------



## Taroostyles

ClintDagger said:


> I think last night’s show was the most criticized yet. Even big AEW fans like myself had to be very critical of it. No Mox, no MJF, a very polarizing close. I think you were missing a lot of feedback if you think it was universally praised.


I saw the Dark Order ending and Kris promo criticized, other than that all reviews I read from places were positive.

Opening tag match was great. The Cody match was well done and exceeded expectations, you can argue about B and B losing in their 2nd match though. Kong squash was fine but Brandi stuff is still kinda just there. Jericho and Jungle Boy match and segment was totally fantastic. Kris was good even though Britt wasnt, like I said the alien stuff isnt good. Tag match was great although I can see the criticism for the aftermath. 

Like there was 3 great matches with a great angle in Jericho and Jack. If the Dark Order thing didnt have Silver and Reynolds as the focal point I think most people would have been fine with it.


----------



## Uchiha Ghost

The Wednesday Night Wars...???


----------



## Chan Hung

rbl85 said:


> Like i said before if a new wrestling show want to be a real success then they need to bring stars who are not wrestlers.


You may have a small point...I mean Ronda actually was worth the $$ by the WWE and is entertaining...maybe someone who is legit like her. Luckily Cane Velasquez went to WWE cuz that was a flop. BUT..id rather AEW get one big name...someone to get more attention. The ratings are dropping like flies, sadly. And I hope they can recover.


----------



## RainmakerV2

The Jericho and Jack match was utterly stupid. Jericho beat the kid in two minutes then picked him up. Its no different from what Hogan would do, "ok brother, Ill make the kid look good but everyone is gonna know I had him beat." Why not just pin him in 2 minutes then beat the dog shit out of him? How stupid. How does that get the kid over when everyone saw he was beat in 2 minutes?


----------



## RapShepard

Chrome said:


> Agree with this, match time is still an issue they're having. I thought the Awesome Kong squash was done right because it showed Kong as dominant, and then got her character over with the hair cutting thing, as well as later on assisting Brandi in trying to get Kris Statlander to join them.


Exactly as wonky as the story is Kong and Brandi were on the show about 7 minutes but in that time King beat some ass, they added to their voodoo hair thing, and tried to get a new cult member. That's very efficient time management for their story. If they could tell like 2-4 more stories in a similar time frame suddenly they have a lot more things to grip people with.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> Christ sounding like a sore loser [emoji23]. AEW is doing fine and will be okay. But these meltdowns some of you are having because AEWost one week on all metrics is hilarious. As far as main roster versus AEW I mean quality is subjective what isn't subjective is that AEW isn't close to the main roster numbers. So do you really want to bring up the main roster when NXT is the one running the same night as AEW.


I'm not sore about AEW "losing." NXT gotta win about 6 more shows for that to even be the case. 

I'm just sick of WWE fans thinking they have a great grasp on quality when they are just marks for the brand, illustrated in the way they cling to NXT like it's dew in a desert when considering nothing but WWE properties.


----------



## Chan Hung

That's another solid point, all their matches are generally too damn long. Granted they're doing better as of late with some squash and some shorter ones.


----------



## Psychosocial

I'm probably alone here but I'm actually happy NXT won in the ratings, as I think it benefits both sides. Why? Because NXT winning means Vince is less likely to get involved and AEW losing means that they'll have to go back to the drawing board more and fix the issues that they have. Everyone wins. That's a LONG TERM positive out of this, but there's far too much short term reactionary bs in here right now and every week.


----------



## Taroostyles

RainmakerV2 said:


> The Jericho and Jack match was utterly stupid. Jericho beat the kid in two minutes then picked him up. Its no different from what Hogan would do, "ok brother, Ill make the kid look good but everyone is gonna know I had him beat." Why not just pin him in 2 minutes then beat the dog shit out of him? How stupid. How does that get the kid over when everyone saw he was beat in 2 minutes?


Cause he hit him with a codebreaker? The not even a finisher that is one that's been kicked out of more times than anything besides the Angle slam? That move 2 minutes into a match is far from being a definite ending.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Taroostyles said:


> Cause he hit him with a codebreaker? The not even a finisher that is one that's been kicked out of more times than anything besides the Angle slam? That move 2 minutes into a match is far from being a definite ending.



What? Do you watch the show? Jericho hit the codebreaker in 2 minutes and picked the kid up off the mat at the 2.9 and he was completely limp selling unconciousness. The match was over. What are you talking about? Jericho made sure everyone knew he beat the guy in 2 minutes. How is that putting him over? It was totally unnecessary and added zero to the match.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> I'm not sore about AEW "losing." NXT gotta win about 6 more shows for that to even be the case.
> 
> I'm just sick of WWE fans thinking they have a great grasp on quality when they are just marks for the brand, illustrated in the way they cling to NXT like it's dew in a desert when considering nothing but WWE properties.


As a WWE fan who likes AEW and thinks they're doing amazing, what I'm going to say is about to be shocking. The majority of the folk being hard on AEW don't mark out for WWE, they mostly actually hate WWE and are much harder on it. A lot of the critical and borderline troll criticism is from folk that are actually upset AEW isn't much different than what WWE offers outside of promo freedom and a tag team division that isn't great like shit. 

1. I mean could you not see Stephanie dominating the women's division with a monster like Nia to represent her. 

2. Is Omega's "losing streak and fall from Grace" that much different from when WWE tries to sell you on Reigns or Cena having a rough go of it just because they lost a match or two recently? 

3. Is Cody consistently getting extravagant intros, feuds with the hot commodity, and time to build his feuds really that much different from what HHH does come Mania season?


----------



## Kowalski's Killer

RainmakerV2 said:


> Some of these people live in an echo chamber where everything AEW does is universally praised. I thought the build up to Full Gear had some of the best network TV pro wrestling I have seen in years. The last month has completly sucked. Sucked shit. The numbers reflect it. Like I said, and I literally mean this,* you could put two goats fucking in the middle of the ring and some posters here would call it the match of the year and great storytelling because it happened in an AEW ring*


That would easily be the most creative thing in the history of wrestling.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> No it will not be enough.
> 
> They'll need to have a dozen of good shows before casuals start watching it but if they bring a big youtuber (or other star) and announce it then they will have a huge gain in rating.


Lol, that won’t work. YouTubers exist within a certain realm, and the kids who follow them aren’t going to suddenly become addicted to two-hour shitty wrestling circus. It also doesn’t address why they’ve run off over half the people who gave them a chance. 



optikk sucks said:


> Kayfabe is dead and a different style of show is needed.
> 
> Think Netflix drama - gritty and realistic storylines, action outside of the ring. Story focused basically. Everything that happens on the show MUST be story focused. Meaningless matches is not the way to go


You say kayfabe is dead and then suggest kayfabe. 



DOTL said:


> I'm not sore about AEW "losing." NXT gotta win about 6 more shows for that to even be the case.
> 
> I'm just sick of WWE fans thinking they have a great grasp on quality when they are just marks for the brand, illustrated in the way they cling to NXT like it's dew in a desert when considering nothing but WWE properties.


People who don’t like AEW aren’t WWE marks. Most of them are just wrestling marks. Just because something is not WWE doesn’t make it good. TNA? Fucking sucks. New Japan. Pretty good. AEW? Fucking sucks. See how that works? You don’t have to like Anything Else Wrestling just because it’s not WWE. And they chasing away that not WWE fan base.

And NXT has been way in front for a while. TV ratings are largely estimates. A small gap between them is basically negligible. BUT, NXT has the advantage of being available on another platform entirely. I’d be very surprised if a large chunk of AEW fans don’t check out NXT on the WWE Network on Thursday. The idea that AEW is more popular is a myth perpetuated by a literal and limited look at the ratings by Dave Meltzer.

NXT has been bigger since Adam Cole showed up on SmackDown.


----------



## Seafort

RainmakerV2 said:


> Nxt 795k
> 
> Aew 683k.
> 
> Lol. Keep not putting Mox
> and MJF on the show, BRILLIANT


Credit WWE for giving a timely rocket push to NXT. At this rate, AEW will be cancelled in about 11 months later, after falling below 300K viewers. Khan will fold up the operation shortly after.

Biggest Losers: Kenny Omega, who has probably done more to devalue himself to WWE and NJPW than anyone on the roster.

MJF has showcased himself for a wonderful future WWE contract.

Biggest Winner: WWE, but not now. The impending implosion of AEW will lead to a surge of exposed talent that can be hired by WWE in 2021 for an invasion angle. Without doing anything remarkable, this should arrest WWE ratings declines that year and set them up nicely for their next contract.


----------



## Reggie Dunlop

RapShepard said:


> Come on don't be that guy on top of them being a new product it's entirely possible that what you think they should be is wrong, as well as what the people you disagree with is wrong. The likely answer to their issue is probably a combination of no real brand value at the moment, not enough story and world building, as well as matches not captivating people. It doesn't have to be this either or situation


It’s not about what I think they should be, it’s about the product I enjoy watching. I haven’t enjoyed it as much the last few weeks as I did the first few weeks. I don’t dislike it, but there’s been something missing since the last ppv that I can’t quite put my finger on. 

But you’re right about the likely answer, that’s possibly the most intelligent thing I’ve seen on the subject here.


----------



## The Wood

Psychosocial said:


> I'm probably alone here but I'm actually happy NXT won in the ratings, as I think it benefits both sides. Why? Because NXT winning means Vince is less likely to get involved and AEW losing means that they'll have to go back to the drawing board more and fix the issues that they have. Everyone wins. That's a LONG TERM positive out of this, but there's far too much short term reactionary bs in here right now and every week.


Great post, but that would require a complete change of the people running AEW. That’s not going to happen. I hope I am proven wrong.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> As a WWE fan who likes AEW and thinks they're doing amazing, what I'm going to say is about to be shocking. The majority of the folk being hard on AEW don't mark out for WWE, they mostly actually hate WWE and are much harder on it. A lot of the critical and borderline troll criticism is from folk that are actually upset AEW isn't much different than what WWE offers outside of promo freedom and a tag team division that isn't great like shit.
> 
> 1. I mean could you not see Stephanie dominating the women's division with a monster like Nia to represent her.
> 
> 2. Is Omega's "losing streak and fall from Grace" that much different from when WWE tries to sell you on Reigns or Cena having a rough go of it just because they lost a match or two recently?
> 
> 3. Is Cody consistently getting extravagant intros, feuds with the hot commodity, and time to build his feuds really that much different from what HHH does come Mania season?


Nice attempt. But I don't buy this. I hate WWE more than most (I actually like NXT, but see it's victory as a black mark for the future of wrestling as long as managment is the same), and when I read AEW criticism, most of it sounds like Vince McMahon to me.. 

As an actual AEW fan I am willing to admit that it needs work. That too many of the guys on the roster were hired because they are friends of the Elite.That they need larger wrestlers in addition to the small guys and a much better women's division; but when all is said and done, I am capable of seeing potential in what they have done. They have gotten many people over who were nobodies a few months ago. That's hard to do.

Unlike the so-called fan critics you're alluding to, I can admit that they need to lean away from what doesn't work as well as lean into what does. The people you mention are loathed to agree with anything does, in fact, work. Which is why I don't believe you that they are in good faith.


----------



## rbl85

One thing that could bring viewers is doing a lot more championship match during the weekly show.


----------



## The Wood

Seafort said:


> Credit WWE for giving a timely rocket push to NXT. At this rate, AEW will be cancelled in about 11 months later, after falling below 300K viewers. Khan will fold up the operation shortly after.
> 
> Biggest Losers: Kenny Omega, who has probably done more to devalue himself to WWE and NJPW than anyone on the roster.
> 
> MJF has showcased himself for a wonderful future WWE contract.
> 
> Biggest Winner: WWE, but not now. The impending implosion of AEW will lead to a surge of exposed talent that can be hired by WWE in 2021 for an invasion angle. Without doing anything remarkable, this should arrest WWE ratings declines that year and set them up nicely for their next contract.


I think it will cap at about 420k. I think JR and Jericho will walk. I wasn’t sure about Jericho at first, because he seems like a guy that would honor dates, but I think the artist in him struggles.

I HOPE Jericho and JR find another billionaire to do wrestling right. I really do. Or that Tony Khan tries against and sells All Elite to The Elite to run into the ground or something. None of that seems very realistic though.

My prediction is that Jericho and JR both go back to WWE, but Jericho mandates that he gets more freedom. I think the one good thing that comes out of AEW is Vince maybe loosening up.

But yeah, I think we are going to see Tony Khan sandwiched between TNT executives who want something more successful and the boys in the locker-room, and that’s when he taps out. Not sure if they just fold up or they sell. I could Tony selling it to TNT and then hiring someone to run it, Jim Herd-style.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> People who don’t like AEW aren’t WWE marks. Most of them are just wrestling marks. Just because something is not WWE doesn’t make it good. TNA? Fucking sucks. New Japan. Pretty good. AEW? Fucking sucks. See how that works? You don’t have to like Anything Else Wrestling just because it’s not WWE. And they chasing away that not WWE fan base.
> 
> And NXT has been way in front for a while. TV ratings are largely estimates. A small gap between them is basically negligible. BUT, NXT has the advantage of being available on another platform entirely. I’d be very surprised if a large chunk of AEW fans don’t check out NXT on the WWE Network on Thursday. The idea that AEW is more popular is a myth perpetuated by a literal and limited look at the ratings by Dave Meltzer.
> 
> NXT has been bigger since Adam Cole showed up on SmackDown.


You: You can hate AEW without loving WWE
Also You: NXT has actually been winning for weeks, and rumors of AEW's success have been greatly exaggerated.

You want me to believe that many people think AEW sucks because of the quality of the show itself and not because of love for the opposing brand, yet you can't bring yourself to admit that AEW was a better draw on average for most of its history. 

Interesting.


----------



## RapShepard

Reggie Dunlop said:


> It’s not about what I think they should be, it’s about the product I enjoy watching. I haven’t enjoyed it as much the last few weeks as I did the first few weeks. I don’t dislike it, but there’s been something missing since the last ppv that I can’t quite put my finger on.
> 
> But you’re right about the likely answer, that’s possibly the most intelligent thing I’ve seen on the subject here.


Tbh I don't think it's missing anything as much as the newness factor is wearing off. Post Full Gear it's not that there's no good worthwhile content, but we're all more used to it. 

Like before TV it was the fun of seeing how dope and well done the "Road To" videos and PPVs were executed with no TV. Then going into Full Gear it was the rush of a real prime time competitor for WWE and seeing how AEW builds stuff with TV. Right now though we got 22 hours of content on TNT which in the normal TV world is about 2-4 seasons worth of content depending on if the show is a half hour or hour long. Add in right now we're in the equivalent of anime filler mode since they can't realistically build to the PPV let their still good product feels a little flatter than it really is.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Nice attempt. But I don't buy this. I hate WWE more than most (I actually like NXT, but see it's victory as a black mark for the future of wrestling as long as managment is the same), and when I read AEW criticism, most of it sounds like Vince McMahon to me..
> 
> As an actual AEW fan I am willing to admit that it needs work. That too many of the guys on the roster were hired because they are friends of the Elite.That they need larger wrestlers in addition to the small guys and a much better women's division; but when all is said and done, I am capable of seeing potential in what they have done. They have gotten many people over who were nobodies a few months ago. That's hard to do.
> 
> Unlike the so-called fan critics you're alluding to, I can admit that they need to lean away from what doesn't work as well as lean into what does. The people you mention are loathed to agree with anything does, in fact, work. Which is why I don't believe you that they are in good faith.


There are certainly some folk that are clearly going to dislike them regardless, that's to be expected as AEW is big time. But I think the majority sincerely want to like AEW or do like AEW. I think they just happen to carry a harsh tone that isn't sugar coating what they dislike.


----------



## Psychosocial

The Wood said:


> Great post, but that would require a complete change of the people running AEW. That’s not going to happen. I hope I am proven wrong.


Don't worry, if trends keep spiraling downwards and they ever face extinction, they'll turn things around. I don't think they know what they're doing either, but one thing they don't lack is passion and desire to be an alternative and never let wrestling go back to the days of WWE and WWE only again. Cody won't live with that failure nor would Tony. They'll eventually make some structural changes if they can't fix things themselves, I still have faith in them there.


----------



## The Wood

DOTL said:


> You: You can hate AEW without loving WWE
> Also You: NXT has actually been winning for weeks, and rumors of AEW's success have been greatly exaggerated.
> 
> You want me to believe that many people think AEW sucks because of the quality of the show itself and not because of love for the opposing brand, yet you can't bring yourself to admit that AEW was a better draw on average for most of its history.
> 
> Interesting.


That’s because it’s a fucking fact. Do you know how Nielsen ratings are tabulated? Nielsen themselves say “oh, give or take 10%.” Many networks have thought about dropping them. AEW getting 740k to NXT’s 722k probably means something like one extra dude with a box in Iowa watched. It doesn’t literally mean that 18k more people watched and you can take that to bank.

Hell, if you add 10% to AEW and take10% from NXT, it’s quite possible that AEW had more viewers on cable than NXT did on USA. But we’re talking perception here. NXT has been neck-and-neck with AEW in live cable estimates AND THEN it launches on its original platform where I guarantee at least some people watch it. We don’t have those numbers, but even just 100k from the US means they got more eyeballs. Sorry, but that’s not a fucking reach.

The ratings matter to advertisers, and they are also going to be looking at trends and the general organizational practices of the companies. If you’ve got NXT that might be watched by slightly fewer people on cable, but you understand that they are part of a promotion with two other juggernauts (whether you like the shows or not), and that worldwide reach through the OTT service, if we’re talking mere popularity, anyone who spends a minute thinking about it knows that NXT is in better shape right now.

I don’t have to like WWE to admit that. It didn’t start off that way. AEW had a fine launch and was perceived as the hotter brand. But WWE’s strategy seems to be working, and now NXT is solidly winning on even just cable. They knew they just had to wait them out because a) they’re not very good, and b) they have no clue what they’re doing.

There’s a belief in wrestling that the better show always wins out in the end and to stay the course. AEW was winning, now it’s definitely not. What does that tell you?


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> There are certainly some folk that are clearly going to dislike them regardless, that's to be expected as AEW is big time. But I think the majority sincerely want to like AEW or do like AEW. I think they just happen to carry a harsh tone that isn't sugar coating what they dislike.


Lol, guilty as charged.

And I don’t mean to sound mean or anything. Blunt, sure, but not mean. I go out of my way to insult anyone or call them names, and if I do I’ll gladly apologize.

It’s just very frustrating when you care about wrestling, then you see wrestling cannibalizing itself.


----------



## rbl85

Psychosocial said:


> Don't worry, if trends keep spiraling downwards and they ever face extinction, they'll turn things around. I don't think they know what they're doing either, but one thing they don't lack is passion and desire to be an alternative and never let wrestling go back to the days of WWE and WWE only again. *Cody won't live with that failure nor would Tony.* They'll eventually make some structural changes if they can't fix things themselves, I still have faith in them there.


I believe Cody and The Elite in general said since the beginning that it's either AEW is a success or their career are over in the US


----------



## RapShepard

The Wood said:


> Lol, guilty as charged.
> 
> And I don’t mean to sound mean or anything. Blunt, sure, but not mean. I go out of my way to insult anyone or call them names, and if I do I’ll gladly apologize.
> 
> It’s just very frustrating when you care about wrestling, then you see wrestling cannibalizing itself.


I think you could go a long way to spend more time mentioning what you do like. I know you have mentioned what you do like. But if most of what you put is a negative critic then folk end up just ignoring after a while. I don't agree with the majority of your views. But I do get your line on thinking on how you came to your views.

Like I wouldn't agree with you on your theory that WWE were taking it easy and waiting for AEW to essentially punch itself out as far as newness goes. But that wasn't some crazy thought process and it may have validity as NXT has found it's footing the last month and ratings are much closer.


----------



## Jonhern

Funny how they are acting like this is a big win, .27 to .25. both shows did poorly this week. They both should recover after the holidays, people are just busy with other things and impeachment was a big suppressing factor as well. New year's might be an interesting night, people will likely be home recovering from the night before lol. There won't be an nxt so could be a signal of what aew would be doing without nxt there too, because not all nxt viewers would necessarily be watching aew if nxt was not on, and vice versa as well.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> Funny how they are acting like this is a big win, .27 to .25. both shows did poorly this week. They both should recover after the holidays, people are just busy with other things and impeachment was a big suppressing factor as well. New year's might be an interesting night, people will likely be home recovering from the night before lol. There won't be an nxt so could be a signal of what aew would be doing without nxt there too, because not all nxt viewers would necessarily be watching aew if nxt was not on, and vice versa as well.


NXT will have a show, just not a live one.


----------



## Seafort

The Wood said:


> I think it will cap at about 420k. I think JR and Jericho will walk. I wasn’t sure about Jericho at first, because he seems like a guy that would honor dates, but I think the artist in him struggles.
> 
> I HOPE Jericho and JR find another billionaire to do wrestling right. I really do. Or that Tony Khan tries against and sells All Elite to The Elite to run into the ground or something. None of that seems very realistic though.
> 
> My prediction is that Jericho and JR both go back to WWE, but Jericho mandates that he gets more freedom. I think the one good thing that comes out of AEW is Vince maybe loosening up.
> 
> But yeah, I think we are going to see Tony Khan sandwiched between TNT executives who want something more successful and the boys in the locker-room, and that’s when he taps out. Not sure if they just fold up or they sell. I could Tony selling it to TNT and then hiring someone to run it, Jim Herd-style.


TNT might be persuaded to buy it for cheap programming, but then it just becomes Ring of Honor or Impact (i.e. held in 100 seat buildings) and is just another small-scale promotion with television.

Vince McMahon will change nothing. If AEW implodes, all this does is further cement the notion that everything that WWE does *is the way that things should be done*. That includes the scripted promos, scripting of entire matches, and complete lack of creative freedom. It would be akin to Toyota and Honda suddenly going bankrupt in 1973. General Motors would still be an awful company from a design and creative standpoint, would have market share without having to do anything to earn it, would have learned absolutely no lessons, and would think that their ossified processes were still the keys to long-term success.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> There are certainly some folk that are clearly going to dislike them regardless, that's to be expected as AEW is big time. But I think the majority sincerely want to like AEW or do like AEW. I think they just happen to carry a harsh tone that isn't sugar coating what they dislike.


There's a difference between not sugarcoating something and criticizing something in bad faith. 

Take Star Wars. I'd be more than happy if TRoS was everything I wanted in a Star Wars movie, but I want it to fail hard because I don't think that is physically possible as long as management is the same. If I was to criticize this new movie for that reason alone, no matter how uninhibited it was, I'd be dishonest. Same with NXT. If AEW beat NXT I'd think that'd be better for all of wrestling, but if I crapped on NXT for that reason alone, even if my criticisms were accurate, I'd be dishonest. (I really like NXT, BTW).

Most of the AEW haters I've seen are the same people who cheer at it doing poorly. Why? What about AEW failing is good for AEW? It doesn't have a safety net.

There's a difference between honest criticism and wanting something to fall flat.



The Wood said:


> That’s because it’s a fucking fact. Do you know how Nielsen ratings are tabulated? Nielsen themselves say “oh, give or take 10%.” Many networks have thought about dropping them. AEW getting 740k to NXT’s 722k probably means something like one extra dude with a box in Iowa watched. It doesn’t literally mean that 18k more people watched and you can take that to bank.
> 
> Hell, if you add 10% to AEW and take10% from NXT, it’s quite possible that AEW had more viewers on cable than NXT did on USA. But we’re talking perception here. NXT has been neck-and-neck with AEW in live cable estimates AND THEN it launches on its original platform where I guarantee at least some people watch it. We don’t have those numbers, but even just 100k from the US means they got more eyeballs. Sorry, but that’s not a fucking reach.
> 
> The ratings matter to advertisers, and they are also going to be looking at trends and the general organizational practices of the companies. If you’ve got NXT that might be watched by slightly fewer people on cable, but you understand that they are part of a promotion with two other juggernauts (whether you like the shows or not), and that worldwide reach through the OTT service, if we’re talking mere popularity, anyone who spends a minute thinking about it knows that NXT is in better shape right now.
> 
> I don’t have to like WWE to admit that. It didn’t start off that way. AEW had a fine launch and was perceived as the hotter brand. But WWE’s strategy seems to be working, and now NXT is solidly winning on even just cable. They knew they just had to wait them out because a) they’re not very good, and b) they have no clue what they’re doing.
> 
> There’s a belief in wrestling that the better show always wins out in the end and to stay the course. AEW was winning, now it’s definitely not. What does that tell you?



You have no idea if this reality leans NXT's way. You're just pulling numbers out of your butt.


----------



## NathanMayberry

The XL 2 said:


> They didn't take this shit seriously and that's sad. They should have tried to sign guys like Eli Drake, Killer Kross, Jacob Fatu, Tom Lawlor, Ken Anderson, Nick Aldis, Ryback, Wade Barrett, etc, real pro wrestlers who can work, who can talk, who look the part. If some of those guys weren't available, they should have struck up working relationships with companies like Impact and/or MLW so they could exchange talent and get those guys on their TV. The roster they assembled for the most part was goofy as fuck, a joke and doomed to fail from the start.


Seems as if they were as arrogant as their fans...

they truly believed that they didn’t need any other promotion just behave they were able to sell out those all in and double or nothing.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> There's a difference between not sugarcoating something and criticizing something in bad faith.
> 
> Take Star Wars. I'd be more than happy if TRoS was everything I wanted in a Star Wars movie, but I want it to fail hard because I don't think that is physically possible as long as management is the same. If I was to criticize this new movie for that reason alone, no matter how uninhibited it was, I'd be dishonest. Same with NXT. If AEW beat NXT I'd think that'd be better for all of wrestling, but if I crapped on NXT for that reason alone, even if my criticisms were accurate, I'd be dishonest. (I really like NXT, BTW).
> 
> Most of the AEW haters I've seen are the same people who cheer at it doing poorly. Why? What about AEW failing is good for AEW? It doesn't have a safety net.
> 
> There's a difference between honest criticism and wanting something to fall flat.


I agree with you whole heardtedly on the overall point your making. Though I do personally think some of the more eye roll criticism is push back to some of the more eye roll praise. Though obviously I could never prove that.


----------



## rbl85

Personally i don't really care about the ratings, i don't watch a show because of his ratings. 

If in the end AEW is a success then it's good but if it does not work and they have to cancel the show, i will just stop watching wrestling.


----------



## NathanMayberry

Oracle said:


> Marty desperately needs to turn up in January.
> 
> that will get more eyes on the product instantly


Why would it?

You don’t think the people who follow BTE or even know who Scrull is, aren’t already watching?


----------



## NathanMayberry

Reggie Dunlop said:


> I’d rather this promotion goes out of business before they turn into whatever the hell it is half you people think it should be. Obviously the last 4 weeks or so they’ve been trying all kinds of shit to allay the criticisms of all the armchair experts, and the shows have been shit for it. Either go back to what made them hot in the first place, or just fold the fucking thing now.


They were hot because they were new.

There’s nothing they can do to make themselves new again, plus AEW fans made enemies of other promotions, so those people who could be fans will never be


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

Nobody is going to care sbout 5'5 marty and his umbrella. The roster is a joke and every other match is a stupid spammy tag match. The only stars they have omega and mox are wasted.

Cody is a jobber dork that thinks hes some daniel bryan face.


----------



## captainzombie

We are only 3 months in and a lot of people are expecting some really high ratings. Yes, each and every week is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I think if things are stagnant at a years time, then there is reason to be concerned. Sure last night's episode wasn't the greatest episode of Dynamite yet, and hopefully they start to learn that shows with multiple tag team matches each week are not going to hold viewers.

Guys, I can't express this over and over, we can't have AEW fail. If it fails, we probably will not see another promotion get a chance like this again for another 20 plus years. It will only set Impact and NWA further back, including NJPW as they try to expand in the US.

ROH is spinning its wheels and appeared to be at deaths door this year
Impact has made some good moves the last 2 years to provide a solid product, but are they really growing like they did in the mid-TNA life cycle of the product?
NWA has something new and unique going, but how long can Billy Corgan fund this project without some kind of house shows or even a TV deal where they are getting paid.
NJPW will be fine in Japan, but their expansion in the US could be DOA if they don't partner up with one of these companies.
MLW had a good resurgence, great talent, and some good booking but something feels off with the product that I can't put my finger on it.
Khan may need to open up that pocketbook again and sign Scrull, Kross, Brodie Lee with including finding someone that can oversee creative because The Elite has stretched themselves to thin. Omega needs to go all out come in 2020 and show who he really is in the ring. I understand some of The Elite are trying to stay humble, but maybe it might be time to make changes and same for the Bucks, maybe cut down on some of the flippity shit that is pissing people off and break that out every so often.

It would really help to introduce some kind of mid-card title that guys can fight over as a stepping stone to the World Title. Use this title to be defended on Dark and Dynamite.

Come the February PPV I'd get the title on Moxley. Jericho has been a good first champion getting eyes on the product, but Mox is super popular right now not to pull the trigger.


----------



## RubberbandGoat

Ha ha here come the doom and gloomers


----------



## rbl85

NXT opened the show with 977K viewers while AEW opened with 689K viewers

AEW lost 3k viewers through the all show while NXT lost 182K viewers

so Q1 : AEW 689K (tag match) , NXT 977K (Balor vs Cole)
Q2 : AEW 691K (end of tag match), NXT 873K (finish of Balor vs Cole + post match)
Q3 : AEW 703K (Cody and Darby tag match), NXT 789K (Killian Dain vs. Damien )
Q4 : AEW 646K (Kong match), NXT 764K (Kushida vs. Cameron Grimes)
Q5 : AEW 780K (Jéricho vs JungleBoy), NXT 732K (ending of Grimes vs. Kushida and beginning of Io Shirai vs. Santana Garrett)
Q6 : AEW 667K (two long commercial breaks and interviews, no matches.), NXT 766K (ending of Shirai vs. Garrett and Pete Dunne vs. Travis Banks)
Q7 : AEW 638k (Statlander vs Britt), NXT 666K (Dunne vs. Banks)
Q8 : AEW 635K (tag titles), NXT 704K (women titles)


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> I agree with you whole heardtedly on the overall point your making. Though I do personally think some of the more eye roll criticism is push back to some of the more eye roll praise. Though obviously I could never prove that.


I was really into the Naruto manga when I was younger, and he was my favorite character. Half of the fanbase hated him and preferred Sasuke, who, one could reasonably make the case was objectively better at the time. I used to troll Sasuketards( as we called them), and every dumb thing the character was involved in was exaggerated as evidence that not only was Naruto a better character, but Sasuke was the worst character ever.

While it's true that much of what I did was a reaction to what I perceived as undue Sasuke praise, a lot of it was in defense of a character I was emotionally attached to.

I have no idea if you understand these references, but the point I'm making is, out of my emotional need to defend Naruto as a character lot of valid and unfair criticism against Sasuke mingled together. It didn't matter, though, because the place I was arguing from was sentimental.

A lot of AEW hate is born out of sentimentality for WWE/F.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> I was really into the Naruto manga when I was younger, and he was my favorite character. Half of the fanbase hated him and preferred Sasuke, who, one could reasonably make the case was objectively better at the time. I used to troll Sasuketards( as we called them), and every dumb thing the character was involved in was exaggerated as evidence that not only was Naruto a better character, but Sasuke was the worst character ever.
> 
> While it's true that much of what I did was a reaction to what I perceived as undue Sasuke praise, a lot of it was in defense of a character I was emotionally attached to.
> 
> I have no idea if you understand these references, but the point I'm making is, out of my emotional need to defend Naruto as a charactera lot of valid and unfair criticism against Sasuke mingled together. It didn't matter, though, because the place I was arguing from was sentimental.
> 
> A lot of AEW hate is born out of sentimentality for WWE/F.


I'd counter that a lot of AEW praise is also born out if WWE hate though I get what you're saying.

On Naruto tho I'd have to agree with you on Naruto over Sasuke. Sasuke (and I think a lot of Naruto villains in general) suffer from woe is me syndrome. Sasuke is appealing as an angsty teen, but as an adult it's just like "boohoo half the fucking cast has a tragic background get over yourself" lol


----------



## Taroostyles

Anyone who's rooting for AEW to fail is beyond shortsighted, if AEW doesnt make it then you can kiss any chance of a wrestling boom again goodbye. No one is coming up with these kinds of resources again, especially if they see AEW not make it. 

It took 18 years to get someone this far, us as fans need it to succeed. Right now they are certainly at a crossroads as far as the tv audience goes, they are going to take a hard look at what they are presenting and make some hard decisions.


----------



## DOTL

RapShepard said:


> I'd counter that a lot of AEW praise is also born out if WWE hate though I get what you're saying.


Yeah, you're probably right about that.



> On Naruto tho I'd have to agree with you on Naruto over Sasuke. Sasuke (and I think a lot of Naruto villains in general) suffer from woe is me syndrome. Sasuke is appealing as an angsty teen, but as an adult it's just like "boohoo half the fucking cast has a tragic background get over yourself" lol


Not to derail the thread, but I always thought people were down with Sasuke because he looked cool. Not because he was an actual good character. Literally 99.9% of the Naruto cast had messed up pasts. You'd think he'd take that into account.


----------



## RapShepard

DOTL said:


> Yeah, you're probably right about that.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to derail the thread, but I always thought people were down with Sasuke because he looked cool. Not because he was an actual good character. Literally 99.9% of the Naruto cast had messed up pasts. You'd think he'd take that into account.


I missed Naruto as a teenager but caught it as an adult. So I get how he could appeal to a preteen/teen but he just looks like a total ass as an adult. Shippuden Sasuke has like all the worst traits an anti-hero could have. It's especially frustrating how him, Kabuto, and Orochimaru just basically get away with all the pain they caused lol.


----------



## imthegame19

I'm not gonna bother replying to anyone who's speaking about doom and gloom or AEW going out of business. Because that's just ridiculous in my opinion, especially right now.

All I'm gonna say is these guys are still new at booking weekly tv shows. There's gonna be plenty of bumps and downs and mistakes made. The shows haven't been as good the last 5 weeks or show and it's showing in ratings. Fact is the company got off to great start and has ALOT of time to get it right. End of story.


----------



## rbl85

By looking at the quarter Numbers, what really killed AEW is the quarter 6 with too much commercials and interviews). The overall number would have been probably a lot closer with a Moxley or even an MJF.

Put MJF in the fourth quarter + Moxley in the main event and AEW would have done at least 750K


----------



## Taroostyles

Those quarter ratings show that NXT starting off with the biggest match was a move that did exactly what it was suppose to. 

Balor and Cole opened with almost a million viewers and 300k more than AEW, pretty much sank them for the entire night. WWE will keep this going, AEW will need to counter with something big to start the show and then hope those viewers stay.


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> Those quarter ratings show that NXT starting off with the biggest match was a move that did exactly what it was suppose to.
> 
> Balor and Cole opened with almost a million viewers and 300k more than AEW, pretty much sank them for the entire night. WWE will keep this going, AEW will need to counter with something big to start the show and then hope those viewers stay.


Well i don't think NXT is going to do a title match to start the show every week.

What i would do if i was Khan i would make a "rule" that says "every show have to start with Jericho or Moxley (maybe both) and every shows have to end with one of those guys or both of them.

Oh and they have to announce it before the show that Moxley and/or Jericho are going to open the show.


----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> By looking at the quarter Numbers, what really killed AEW is the quarter 6 with too much commercials and interviews). The overall number would have been probably a lot closer with a Moxley or even an MJF.
> 
> Put MJF in the fourth quarter + Moxley in the main event and AEW would have done at least 750K


What killed them was starting so low to begin with. I think people are right in that saying the brand loyalty to AEW is very weak given how new they are. A lot of people tuned in during the initial weeks hoping for an alternative to WWE and unfortunately it looks like AEW missed the mark for at least half that original number. AEW is far from dead & buried but they missed a gigantic opportunity in those early weeks. Now they will have to turn things around the hard way.


----------



## rbl85

ClintDagger said:


> What killed them was starting so low to begin with. I think people are right in that saying the brand loyalty to AEW is very weak given how new they are. A lot of people tuned in during the initial weeks hoping for an alternative to WWE and unfortunately it looks like AEW missed the mark for at least half that original number. AEW is far from dead & buried but they missed a gigantic opportunity in those early weeks. Now they will have to turn things around the hard way.


Between a title match between Balor and Cole and a regular tag match with no stakes….it's obvious that AEW was going to get fucked in the first quarter. The only chance they had to limit the loss was to put Jericho or Moxley at the same time.
Omega, Page and the lucha bros are great, big talents but they're still new to a lot of people.


----------



## Marbar

I stopped watching wrestling when vince created his monpoly with the downfall of wcw and ecw. I'm not gonna dog on them it just isn't my cup of tea. I love aew but in my opinion they really need to do the following to drum up excitement:

1) get brandi off of tv. The whole nightmare collective has become cumbersome and is going nowhere fast

2) quit signing complete unknowns and save the money for someone with some name recognition. ie the beaver brothers who are they idon'

3) stop the cold introductions of new wrestlers. During the whole Bbb attack i was like who are these guys

4) get the belt off riho. You need someone that has mic skills and can get the crowd going. Yes i know shes over but where has she been? I know shes new but stratlander will be huge. Britt is a trainwreck and ruined the match wednesday night.

5) Get the belts off scu and on the lucha brothers. Let scorpio run solo because hes the one with charisma 

6) turn omega loose. He needs to focus on wrestling not on the womens division. The unsanctioned match was incredible but where did the momentum go after that?

7) Either explain the ratings system or lose it. Scorpio wasnt even in line for the title shot

8) we need another belt.

9) the primary focus needs to be on the stars with mic skills, wrestling ability and charisma 

10) shorten up some of the matches. Not every match needs multiple kick outs. It gets monotonous as hell

I admire the elite for staying in the background (ie cody not being able to wrestle for the championship) but nxt isnt going nowhere. For the time being they need to focus on the stars with the most potential.


----------



## shandcraig

Jedah said:


> Nah, the biggest problem is that there's just been so much time to fill.
> 
> Whereas in the first 6 weeks they had a PPV to build so things were more focused. It's only now that they're starting to slowly build up since Revolution was announced, but the 6 week interregnum came just as NXT was starting to step up.
> 
> Hence why they really should bump the PPV count from 4 to 6. A two month span between major shows instead of 3 would solve a lot of the randomness that's come in the episodes since Full Gear.


Agree


----------



## bdon

bdon said:


> So, with all the hype dying out on him, where does he go from here? You had an entire built in WWE viewing audience wanting to learn about this guy after all the WWE guys have discussed wanting to work with him.
> 
> And he drops to a Midcard WWE guy? I understand that he’s EVP and choosing to do “the right thing” ethically, but it isn’t going to do any favors for his ability to reel in viewers.
> 
> So, again, where does he go from here? Cody has hinted at a midcard title and wanting to make it prestigious, instead of how everyone felt about his IC title in WWE. Do they give Omega this TV title or whatever it plans to be?
> 
> Just seems rather silly to have the best wrestler in the world not vying for your world title.


They shot themselves in the foot.

I warned of the problem from Day 1. You can’t put sole focus on 1 or 2 superstar guys leading to an insane matchup. Jericho and Cody carrying segments together was hot, because everyone knows Jericho and everyone knows Cody is a big deal. Everyone knows Moxley and wants to see what Dean Ambrose is like without the Vince McMahon ball and chain on his leg.

And everyone was hyped about finally getting to see Kenny Omega, the Best Bout Machine, Mr 7 Star Match himself, the guy who had Stone Cold, Edge and Christian, etc discussing how insanely perfect his matches were.

And...you jobbed him out to Pac. You showed him getting his ass annihilated on TV. You threw him on Dark. You let his nerdy side geek out before Halloween and walk to the ring in Sans Undertale mask that left the target audience scratching its head. After an insane match vs Moxley, you ran with his vignette talking about Pac and showing him lifting 45 pounds; how was THIS good for TV but the rest of BTE stays hidden on YouTube?


----------



## bdon

Now @Garty, go ahead and place your shit emoji by name and claim I’m just being Negative Nancy.

I was right. You had one chance to make a first impression, and they ruined their first impression with Kenny Omega, the hottest FA in wrestling since Sting.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Ah, finally it happened

the show is over people, the war is won, we are NXT and all that

NXT, NXT, NXT

.....

now hopefully this place will quiet down a bit and we can get back to talking about the stories with other fans


----------



## ReekOfAwesomenesss

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah, finally it happened
> 
> the show is over people, the war is won, we are NXT and all that
> 
> NXT, NXT, NXT
> 
> .....
> 
> now hopefully this place will quiet down a bit and we can get back to talking about the stories with other fans


You can stop entering a thread about ratings or stop expecting to see story discussions in a thread like this.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

ReekOfAwesomenesss said:


> You can stop entering a thread about ratings or stop expecting to see story discussions in a thread like this.


I was referring to the board, not this thread specific


----------



## K4L318

Marbar said:


> I stopped watching wrestling when vince created his monpoly with the downfall of wcw and ecw. I'm not gonna dog on them it just isn't my cup of tea. I love aew but in my opinion they really need to do the following to drum up excitement:
> 
> 1) get brandi off of tv. The whole nightmare collective has become cumbersome and is going nowhere fast
> 
> 2) quit signing complete unknowns and save the money for someone with some name recognition. ie the beaver brothers who are they idon'
> 
> 3) stop the cold introductions of new wrestlers. During the whole Bbb attack i was like who are these guys
> 
> 4) get the belt off riho. You need someone that has mic skills and can get the crowd going. Yes i know shes over but where has she been? I know shes new but stratlander will be huge. Britt is a trainwreck and ruined the match wednesday night.
> 
> 5) Get the belts off scu and on the lucha brothers. Let scorpio run solo because hes the one with charisma
> 
> 6) turn omega loose. He needs to focus on wrestling not on the womens division. The unsanctioned match was incredible but where did the momentum go after that?
> 
> 7) Either explain the ratings system or lose it. Scorpio wasnt even in line for the title shot
> 
> 8) we need another belt.
> 
> 9) the primary focus needs to be on the stars with mic skills, wrestling ability and charisma
> 
> 10) shorten up some of the matches.  Not every match needs multiple kick outs. It gets monotonous as hell
> 
> I admire the elite for staying in the background (ie cody not being able to wrestle for the championship) but nxt isnt going nowhere. For the time being they need to focus on the stars with the most potential.


yo I dont even need to post anything, he said it all. 

Imma fix 2 things. Get Brandi away from the womens division entirely. 

Stop turning out the lights for every dude, ya all not the Undertaker. Leave it for Dark Order. No one else. 

and last to get over dudes like Kip Sabian and fine ass chick Penelope or Joey Janela, book them against enhancement guys and give them a 4-5 minute segments.


----------



## Oracle

LifeInCattleClass said:


> Ah, finally it happened
> 
> the show is over people, the war is won, we are NXT and all that
> 
> NXT, NXT, NXT
> 
> .....
> 
> now hopefully this place will quiet down a bit and we can get back to talking about the stories with other fans


What fans? theres a select few that circle jerk on here about anything that AEW does. 

why is it so wrong to have a debate?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Oracle said:


> What fans? theres a select few that circle jerk on here about anything that AEW does.
> 
> why is it so wrong to have a debate?


What debate, there’s a select fans on here having to shitpost every little thing that happens

see, that knife cuts both ways


----------



## DJ Punk

What?! NXT won again for the third time?! With two world title matches on the card?! No way!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Lol, that won’t work. YouTubers exist within a certain realm, and the kids who follow them aren’t going to suddenly become addicted to two-hour shitty wrestling circus. It also doesn’t address why they’ve run off over half the people who gave them a chance.
> 
> 
> 
> You say kayfabe is dead and then suggest kayfabe.
> 
> 
> 
> People who don’t like AEW aren’t WWE marks. Most of them are just wrestling marks. Just because something is not WWE doesn’t make it good. TNA? Fucking sucks. New Japan. Pretty good. AEW? Fucking sucks. See how that works? You don’t have to like Anything Else Wrestling just because it’s not WWE. And they chasing away that not WWE fan base.
> 
> And NXT has been way in front for a while. TV ratings are largely estimates. A small gap between them is basically negligible. BUT, NXT has the advantage of being available on another platform entirely. I’d be very surprised if a large chunk of AEW fans don’t check out NXT on the WWE Network on Thursday. The idea that AEW is more popular is a myth perpetuated by a literal and limited look at the ratings by Dave Meltzer.
> 
> NXT has been bigger since Adam Cole showed up on SmackDown.


Kayfsbe in a sense that nobody cares about random wrestling matches and who wins and who doesn’t. 

I said Netflix drama becausehow do beefs get squashed in Netflix dramas? Not in wrestling rings doofus.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DJ Punk said:


> What?! NXT won again for the third time?! With two world title matches on the card?! No way!



Wouldn't hurt AEW to do a legit world title match or two since theres 4 months between their PPVs. No, Scorpio Sky or Jungleboy dont count.


----------



## volde

I'm not sure if doing more PPVs is really an answer here. What is more important for AEW now? Getting good ratings that eventually lead to better TV deal or earning more money with PPVs? I'd think that TV deal should be a priority and they should be doing big matches on TV as well just like NXT did.

Do we really need to wait till PPV to see Cody/MJF? Maybe instead they should build an entire episode around it and have that match? Heck, it can even lead to rematch at PPV if they execute it well enough.

After all, one of the biggest events during Monday Night Wars was when Mankind won the championship and defeated Rock on an episode of RAW.


----------



## Garty

bdon said:


> Now @Garty, go ahead and place your shit emoji by name and claim I’m just being Negative Nancy.
> 
> I was right. You had one chance to make a first impression, and they ruined their first impression with Kenny Omega, the hottest FA in wrestling since Sting.


Well, if you say so, here you go...

 You're welcome.


----------



## RainmakerV2

volde said:


> I'm not sure if doing more PPVs is really an answer here. What is more important for AEW now? Getting good ratings that eventually lead to better TV deal or earning more money with PPVs? I'd think that TV deal should be a priority and they should be doing big matches on TV as well just like NXT did.
> 
> Do we really need to wait till PPV to see Cody/MJF? Maybe instead they should build an entire episode around it and have that match? Heck, it can even lead to rematch at PPV if they execute it well enough.
> 
> After all, one of the biggest events during Monday Night Wars was when Mankind won the championship and defeated Rock on an episode of RAW.


Its not about money, its about being pretty damn hard to do a weekly national TV wrestling show with 4 months in between PPVs. If you want to make people pay to see Cody vs. MJF or Mox vs. Jericho, you have to create 3 months of bullshit like the BBB or going against Jungleboy to fill the deadspace until you can get to the month of the PPV. Theres no reason they can't do a PPV every 50-60 days.


----------



## Garty

There's no bias here, right? Only discussions of how AEW sucks, needing a better roster, stronger women, Omega constantly jobbing, vanilla midgets, stupid factions, indie geeks, too many flip-flop guys, weekly ratings and last but not least, go out of business, right? Did I cover all the bases here?

No bias... Ratings Thread posts for both AEW and NXT last week vs this week 12/11 vs 12/18
As of this writing...

NXT Thread - 6 posts
AEW Thread - 190+ posts

Nothing to see here people. Move along. Move along.


----------



## DJ Punk

RainmakerV2 said:


> Wouldn't hurt AEW to do a legit world title match or two since theres 4 months between their PPVs. No, Scorpio Sky or Jungleboy dont count.


You're right about Jungle Boy not counting because that wasn't even a title match. But you're wrong about Scorpio Sky because that was a title match. A title match is a title match no matter which way you spin it. Doesn't matter if the winner is certain before the match begins. In the end it's wrestling and anything can happen.


----------



## roadkill_

Hires Jake Hager. Buries Hager and pushes 4'11 vanilla midgets like 'Jungle Boy' and Darby Allen. 

Gets defeated in ratings.

This should surprise no-one.


----------



## ellthom

I did actually decide to watch NxT over AEW this week. I will do again probably next week unless AEW counter with something huge! 

I tend to switch between shows on what to watch, I love both.


----------



## Taroostyles

I do agree about it being hard to write 3 months of tv between each PPV, they should go from 4 to 6 asap. Or at the very least bring back the specials like Fyterfest and Fight For The Fallen and stream them and charge $20-30 instead of 50. 

I think something else that they need to do is take the guys they've built well by getting rubs off their stars and give them their own things to do. Guys like Darby, Jungle Boy, Scorpio, etc. They need to solidify the midcard with feuds and angles and eventually a title belt. 

Cause for now they need to take their top tier stars and only have them involved with other stars to try and boost those numbers back up. So Cody, Jericho, Omega, Mox, Pac, MJF, and Page should only really interact with each other. (Add Fenix and Penta in singles)

Riho is great but she hasn't been on the show other than being in the crowd last week for over a month. I get shes big with young fans and moves merch but if shes not on the show what does it matter? I know Kris is green but she has huge upside. I would have her drop the alien gimmick and win the title on New Years. They could also put the belt on Kong soon and then do the program eith Kris that they seem to be building anyway. 

Also SCU are over, but they aren't over as champions cause the audience knows their are atleast 3 or 4 better teams that should have the belts. They dont really need them and Scorpio should move into singles, I would do the title change before the PPV whether its LAX or The Bucks or Lucha Bros. 

Then I would have Mox win the title at Revolution let him feud with Pac while we get a proper Elite vs Inner Circle feud that can build towards Double Or Nothing.


----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> Between a title match between Balor and Cole and a regular tag match with no stakes….it's obvious that AEW was going to get fucked in the first quarter. The only chance they had to limit the loss was to put Jericho or Moxley at the same time.
> Omega, Page and the lucha bros are great, big talents but they're still new to a lot of people.


Which is why I cite brand loyalty. Everybody knew Cole / Balor was just going to be a routine tv defense where the belt doesn’t change hands. The fact that putting that match out there was enough to have AEW in the 600k range right out of the gate is concerning. It has to be.


----------



## bdon

They killed Kenny’s drawing power.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> Kenny killed Kenny’s drawing power.


Fixed


----------



## rbl85

ClintDagger said:


> Which is why I cite brand loyalty. Everybody knew Cole / Balor was just going to be a routine tv defense where the belt doesn’t change hands. The fact that putting that match out there was enough to have AEW in the 600k range right out of the gate is concerning. It has to be.


Everybody knew that JungleBoy was not going to beat Jericho + the match wasn't for the title and yet AEW gained more than 100K viewers with this match.
People don't care if there is suspense or not during a match, what they care about is the wrestlers in the match.


----------



## NathanMayberry

rbl85 said:


> It's either AEW succeed or there will never be any alternative.


That's such an asinine response. 


Wrestling promotions are popping up by the day. AEW simply happened to be the XFL of Wrestling. 


AEW is a mess because instead of hiring professionals to run a Wrestling promotion, Money Mark Tony Kahn hired Cody and his friends, who in turn have hired their friends.


----------



## rbl85

NathanMayberry said:


> That's such an asinine response.
> 
> 
> Wrestling promotions are popping up by the day. AEW simply happened to be the XFL of Wrestling.
> 
> 
> AEW is a mess because instead of hiring professionals to run a Wrestling promotion, Money Mark Tony Kahn hired Cody and his friends, who in turn have hired their friends.


Yeah sure, i mean there was so much bigger names on the market…..


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> Fixed


And you still don’t understand that they, collectively, make decisions.


----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> Everybody knew that JungleBoy was not going to beat Jericho + the match wasn't for the title and yet AEW gained more than 100K viewers with this match.
> People don't care if there is suspense or not during a match, what they care about is the wrestlers in the match.


The match with Jungle Boy was about him lasting 10 minutes, not winning. And Balor couldn’t draw flies on the main roster. If his “starpower” is enough to bring AEW to its knees then the ball has been dropped to a shocking degree.


----------



## Majmo_Mendez

Seafort said:


> Credit WWE for giving a timely rocket push to NXT. At this rate, AEW will be cancelled in about 11 months later, after falling below 300K viewers. Khan will fold up the operation shortly after.
> 
> Biggest Losers: Kenny Omega, who has probably done more to devalue himself to WWE and NJPW than anyone on the roster.
> 
> MJF has showcased himself for a wonderful future WWE contract.
> 
> Biggest Winner: WWE, but not now. The impending implosion of AEW will lead to a surge of exposed talent that can be hired by WWE in 2021 for an invasion angle. Without doing anything remarkable, this should arrest WWE ratings declines that year and set them up nicely for their next contract.


Delusional 'E drones LARPing as concerned AEW fans. Yikes. Mods really should purge this filth.


----------



## validreasoning

Taroostyles said:


> Anyone who's rooting for AEW to fail is beyond shortsighted, if AEW doesnt make it then you can kiss any chance of a wrestling boom again goodbye. No one is coming up with these kinds of resources again, especially if they see AEW not make it.
> 
> It took 18 years to get someone this far, us as fans need it to succeed. Right now they are certainly at a crossroads as far as the tv audience goes, they are going to take a hard look at what they are presenting and make some hard decisions.


Having a non WWE show on national tv won't create a boom. TNA were on national TV for a decade on Spike, on same network as a nuclear hot UFC and twice did 2 million viewers for episodes but no boom happened.

People need to come to terms with fact Monday night war boom was fluke or more to point lightning in bottle. If it hadn't been for fans buying into Nash and Hall legit being sent by Vince to invade Nitro you likely would have seen both raw and Nitro spluttering along for years like we saw in October 95-May 96.

Wrestling booms need 3 major things in place to happen usually
1. A star or stars who cross over into mainstream
2. A strong economy where working class and lower middle class (demo most wrestling fans fit into) have lots of money in their pocket to spend on discretionary past times like pro wrestling
3. Something new happening be it popularization of the television across America in the late 40s, popularization of cable TV in the US in mid 80s and two competing wrestling companies fighting to death on prime time cable in late 90s.

At best you could argue only #3 is happening right now or for foreseeable future ie the growth of online streaming networks which allows lots of people access to pro wrestling especially outside US/UK/Canada that wasn't there before


----------



## BigCy

Some good posts all around and although I don't think it's over yet there's also no way to spin that there should't be some concern going forward. Going from 1.4 to essentially 0.7 is half the original audience. People are there but they noped out after a few short weeks. 1.4 thought AEW was worth watching live but now only about half do. Now I'm sure some of these still watch but they DVR it instead, they went from "AEW is worth watching live!" to "I guess I'll waatch AEW when I have free time." or "This sucks...f wrestling (or this company.)" 

I hope they can produce something better. Most of what can be done to improve things has been said so I won't beat a dead horse except to say that they need to do SOMETHING and what that something is can be up for discussion and debate.

@Garty - Gimme a poo damnit! I think they're kind of cute lol


----------



## CenaBoy4Life

rbl85 said:


> NXT opened the show with 977K viewers while AEW opened with 689K viewers
> 
> AEW lost 3k viewers through the all show while NXT lost 182K viewers
> 
> so Q1 : AEW 689K (tag match) , NXT 977K (Balor vs Cole)
> Q2 : AEW 691K (end of tag match), NXT 873K (finish of Balor vs Cole + post match)
> Q3 : AEW 703K (Cody and Darby tag match), NXT 789K (Killian Dain vs. Damien )
> Q4 : AEW 646K (Kong match), NXT 764K (Kushida vs. Cameron Grimes)
> Q5 : AEW 780K (Jéricho vs JungleBoy), NXT 732K (ending of Grimes vs. Kushida and beginning of Io Shirai vs. Santana Garrett)
> Q6 : AEW 667K (two long commercial breaks and interviews, no matches.), NXT 766K (ending of Shirai vs. Garrett and Pete Dunne vs. Travis Banks)
> Q7 : AEW 638k (Statlander vs Britt), NXT 666K (Dunne vs. Banks)
> Q8 : AEW 635K (tag titles), NXT 704K (women titles)


Womens division and young bucks killing those ratings.


----------



## rbl85

Tickets sale for Revolution is doing really good.

The other 2 shows….not too well.

EDIT : Revolution is probably going to sell out today


----------



## rbl85

CenaBoy4Life said:


> Womens division and young bucks killing those ratings.


The quarter who lost the most viewers is the one with 2 commercial and just interview.


----------



## Jonhern

volde said:


> I'm not sure if doing more PPVs is really an answer here. What is more important for AEW now? Getting good ratings that eventually lead to better TV deal or earning more money with PPVs? I'd think that TV deal should be a priority and they should be doing big matches on TV as well just like NXT did.
> 
> Do we really need to wait till PPV to see Cody/MJF? Maybe instead they should build an entire episode around it and have that match? Heck, it can even lead to rematch at PPV if they execute it well enough.
> 
> After all, one of the biggest events during Monday Night Wars was when Mankind won the championship and defeated Rock on an episode of RAW.


They need to do clash of champions style tv specials to have something to build to between PPV, have them on saturdays or sundays on TNT or TBS. Nitro did the big matches on TV and it was not the smart move. yes, things have changed with tv, but they are still producing PPV so need to protect those big matches that would drive buyrates.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Tickets sale for Revolution is doing really good.
> 
> The other 2 shows….not too well.
> 
> EDIT : Revolution is probably going to sell out today


Only obstructed view seats look to be left.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> Only obstructed view seats look to be left.


Yes they opened this section just a minute ago

In the other hand Atlanta is a big flop


----------



## Seafort

Majmo_Mendez said:


> Delusional 'E drones LARPing as concerned AEW fans. Yikes. Mods really should purge this filth.


Not a delusional WWE fan at all. I dislike the main roster WWE presentation as stale and boring, with a healthy dose of laziness. I think NXT is ultimately going to be the downfall of the the company, as it is minimalistic and has no chance of expanding the fan base.

I want AEW to succeed, but they are committing several unforced errors and they have a narrow window of time to right the ship.


----------



## shandcraig

I think 6 ppvs ia a perfect balance


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Yes they opened this section just a minute ago
> 
> In the other hand Atlanta is a big flop


it's an odd setup too in Atlanta, they don't have any seats center in the lower section, where most people would probably want to sit. And from pics it's not like the arena doesn't have stands there, they just decided to close it off.


----------



## llj

Seafort said:


> Not a delusional WWE fan at all. I dislike the main roster WWE presentation as stale and boring, with a healthy dose of laziness. I think NXT is ultimately going to be the downfall of the the company, as it is minimalistic and has no chance of expanding the fan base.
> 
> I want AEW to succeed, but they are committing several unforced errors and they have a narrow window of time to right the ship.


Running and booking a wrestling company week after week is hard. At some point you have to choose who to push above others. It seems like AEW is trying to get everyone over but they have no exceptional stars except Jericho and Moxley, mostly because of their WWE fame. Cody being a close second to them.

They need to pick someone to get behind with the women too. Kris and Shida are two good pillars. None of this 50/50 crap with matches without any context or stakes. Riho isn't a good choice because while she got instantly over, she's not someone who will be moving to the States anytime soon so she will always disappear for periods and you need your big stars to be there regularly enough.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

roadkill_ said:


> Hires Jake Hager. Buries Hager and pushes 4'11 vanilla midgets like 'Jungle Boy' and Darby Allen.
> 
> Gets defeated in ratings.
> 
> This should surprise no-one.


Bring in that beast Wardlow to basically be another Hager! It's stupid and i am getting sick of it! I wanna see these two cause chaos and have good story lines not be bodyguards! 
They are pushing the wrong people hopefully the ratings this past week will make them adjust.


----------



## imthegame19

AEW Revolution sells out in hour. It shows there's high demand for them when they do big show and big match ups. Thank goodness i got my tickets for Revolution in presale yesterday.


----------



## The XL 2

I see Jericho's segment is the only thing that did well, that's not surprising. What should really be concerning is that NXT isn't pulling away because they're gaining viewers, because they're not really gaining. NXT is starting to win because AEW is declining. 

As far as the PPVs go, they shouldn't do 6, they don't have a market for that many PPVs. That should do a big pseudo PPV caliber show on TV every 5 weeks or so on the months a PPV isn't scheduled.


----------



## imthegame19

bdon said:


> And you still don’t understand that they, collectively, make decisions.



They make collective decision on feuds and angles. It's up to him to cut his promos and how he handles his segments and how they do his angles on tv. That's what's hurting him not feuds or angles. Again look at Cody and how he presents himself and what he says in his promos makes him feel like a star. Basically why he's not getting over his Omega fault. They could have had him beat Moxley or Pac at All Out. 


It wouldn't have made difference if he was doing what he's doing right now. Again it's Kenny fault just as it would be if he put on bad matches. AEW doesn't have a Vince McMahon mirco managing him or writing staff. Wrestlers have leash to come up with their own stuff in AEW. Especially with how much power he has.



The XL 2 said:


> I see Jericho's segment is the only thing that did well, that's not surprising. What should really be concerning is that NXT isn't pulling away because they're gaining viewers, because they're not really gaining. NXT is starting to win because AEW is declining.
> 
> As far as the PPVs go, they shouldn't do 6, they don't have a market for that many PPVs. That should do a big pseudo PPV caliber show on TV every 5 weeks or so on the months a PPV isn't scheduled.


Yep they can big Dynamite or two as ppv like shows and build towards them. If Jericho/Jungle Boy, Moxley/Darby, Butcher&Blade vs Cody&Dustin and say Omega/Sabian were built as actual feuds for 4 or 5 weeks with them building up Jungle Boy,Darby, Butcher/Blade and Sabian for 4 or 5 weeks and did actual feuds with top guys. Well people would have a lot more interesting tv and be more into those match ups when they happen.


----------



## ClintDagger

llj said:


> Running and booking a wrestling company week after week is hard. At some point you have to choose who to push above others. It seems like AEW is trying to get everyone over but they have no exceptional stars except Jericho and Moxley, mostly because of their WWE fame. Cody being a close second to them.
> 
> They need to pick someone to get behind with the women too. Kris and Shida are two good pillars. None of this 50/50 crap with matches without any context or stakes. Riho isn't a good choice because while she got instantly over, she's not someone who will be moving to the States anytime soon so she will always disappear for periods and you need your big stars to be there regularly enough.


What they’re trying to do is take literal nobodies like Jungle Boy, Darby Allin, Scorpio Sky, etcetera, and give them a rub from the main eventers and therefore turn those literal nobodies into stars. That’s great in theory but as a rule rarely works. You don’t create stars in a single night very often. They should start those guys at the very bottom and through character development and consistently winning matches give them a strong foundation. THEN you try to give them a rub to get them to the next level. In other words, The Elite are trying to take shortcuts to build an upper midcard and it’s not working. In fact they are hurting top of the card guys like Omega in the process.


----------



## CMPunkRock316

I watched NXT week 1 when they debuted and I was underwhelmed. I didn't bother with it the following week frankly I forgot it was on and didn't set my DVR for it. I watched Dynamite week 1 and watched NXT on Network 2 days later right before my Network Sub was up. I haven't bothered with NXT since. It doesn't interest me because the guys I liked Black (in neutral on Raw) and Ciampa got injured and is now a face. I loved him as a heel and I really don't care about his current character. Balor is a guy that I didn't care about on the main roster so why would I care about him now?

AEW is having growing pains. The main event was underwhelming I thought it was time for The Bucks to go over (then again I thought PNP should have won last week but I loved that match) I was hoping that it was revealed that Page joined the Dark Order. As many others said no Mox or MJF was a misstep. You have to have at least 1 of them on. The demo loss is a bad look but neither finishing in the Top 25 is bad. Especially for NXT putting both main titles on the line and they can't break 800K and only get a .25 Demo. While numbers for AEW haven't been great this was a mediocre performance for NXT considering the mini Takeover they put on.


----------



## Garty

BigCy said:


> @Garty - Gimme a poo damnit! I think they're kind of cute lol


C'mon now, I don't hand them out that easily. You have to earn it.


----------



## shandcraig

imthegame19 said:


> AEW Revolution sells out in hour. It shows there's high demand for them when they do big show and big match ups. Thank goodness i got my tickets for Revolution in presale yesterday.



Well most likely as usual it was scalpers but either way it will be full. I bought my ticket for DON from a 3rd party and had to pay more


----------



## rbl85

shandcraig said:


> *Well most likely as usual it was scalpers* but either way it will be full. I bought my ticket for DON from a 3rd party and had to pay more


Only 429 tickets on the secondary market.


----------



## shandcraig

imthegame19 said:


> AEW Revolution sells out in hour. It shows there's high demand for them when they do big show and big match ups. Thank goodness i got my tickets for Revolution in presale yesterday.



Well most likely as usual it was scalpers but either way it will be full. I bought my ticket for DON from a 3rd party and had to pay more


rbl85 said:


> Only 429 tickets on the secondary market.


Wow that's great. Hopefully Atlanta does decent


----------



## rbl85

In the end they could have used a bigger arena.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Promotion is gonna die

Sells out PPV arena

Logical


----------



## Taroostyles

validreasoning said:


> Having a non WWE show on national tv won't create a boom. TNA were on national TV for a decade on Spike, on same network as a nuclear hot UFC and twice did 2 million viewers for episodes but no boom happened.
> 
> People need to come to terms with fact Monday night war boom was fluke or more to point lightning in bottle. If it hadn't been for fans buying into Nash and Hall legit being sent by Vince to invade Nitro you likely would have seen both raw and Nitro spluttering along for years like we saw in October 95-May 96.
> 
> Wrestling booms need 3 major things in place to happen usually
> 1. A star or stars who cross over into mainstream
> 2. A strong economy where working class and lower middle class (demo most wrestling fans fit into) have lots of money in their pocket to spend on discretionary past times like pro wrestling
> 3. Something new happening be it popularization of the television across America in the late 40s, popularization of cable TV in the US in mid 80s and two competing wrestling companies fighting to death on prime time cable in late 90s.
> 
> At best you could argue only #3 is happening right now or for foreseeable future ie the growth of online streaming networks which allows lots of people access to pro wrestling especially outside US/UK/Canada that wasn't there before


I'm not saying it's happening, I'm saying this is possibly the lat chance for it to happen. Big difference.


----------



## ClintDagger

Interesting stuff from Alvarez today. Jericho is the only performer who hasn’t at some point lost to NXT head to head in his segment and he’s the only performer who has never lost viewers in his segment. Clearly the belt is on the right guy.


----------



## bdon

imthegame19 said:


> They make collective decision on feuds and angles. It's up to him to cut his promos and how he handles his segments and how they do his angles on tv. That's what's hurting him not feuds or angles. Again look at Cody and how he presents himself and what he says in his promos makes him feel like a star. Basically why he's not getting over his Omega fault. They could have had him beat Moxley or Pac at All Out.
> 
> 
> It wouldn't have made difference if he was doing what he's doing right now. Again it's Kenny fault just as it would be if he put on bad matches. AEW doesn't have a Vince McMahon mirco managing him or writing staff. Wrestlers have leash to come up with their own stuff in AEW. Especially with how much power he has.


And you still don’t understand. You’re literally the only person I see saying they have not underutilized Omega.

They. Not just Omega.


----------



## rbl85

ClintDagger said:


> Interesting stuff from Alvarez today. Jericho is the only performer who hasn’t at some point lost to NXT head to head in his segment and he’s the only performer who has never lost viewers in his segment. Clearly the belt is on the right guy.


Actually he is wrong because Jericho vs Darly lost viewers.

The only one who never lost any viewers is Moxley.


----------



## imthegame19

shandcraig said:


> Well most likely as usual it was scalpers but either way it will be full. I bought my ticket for DON from a 3rd party and had to pay more


Actually not scalper action was very low on this. Probably because AEW didn't sell out show in a while.



bdon said:


> And you still don’t understand. You’re literally the only person I see saying they have not underutilized Omega.
> 
> They. Not just Omega.


I'm not the only one who said Omega hasn't been very good. Yes in most companies you can blame booking and company. In AEW you can only blame Omega.



ClintDagger said:


> Interesting stuff from Alvarez today. Jericho is the only performer who hasn’t at some point lost to NXT head to head in his segment and he’s the only performer who has never lost viewers in his segment. Clearly the belt is on the right guy.


Yeah he's wrong. Jericho vs Darby had big loss. I don't think Moxley had any loss viewers tho.



rbl85 said:


> In the end they could have used a bigger arena.


Yeah next time they should try United Center in Chicago for PPV.


----------



## Taroostyles

The United Center has a concert booked that night so even if they wanted to use it they couldn't. 


That's the part I see alot of people not realizing. They have to pick the date 1st of all so it's not up against major competition and then find a venue that's not booked already that night. Couple the date with them partnering with C2E2 and it definitely made the most sense.


----------



## rbl85

Taroostyles said:


> The United Center has a concert booked that night so even if they wanted to use it they couldn't.
> 
> 
> That's the part I see alot of people not realizing. They have to pick the date 1st of all so it's not up against major competition and then find a venue that's not booked already that night. Couple the date with them partnering with C2E2 and it definitely made the most sense.


Note that i said "could have" and not "should have"

Next wednesday there is a best of 2019 episode for the fitetv viewers.


----------



## Taroostyles

rbl85 said:


> Note that i said "could have" and not "should have"


I wasnt referring to you


----------



## MetalKiwi

I think the ratings will be interesting during Royal Rumble/Wrestlemania season.


----------



## The Wood

RapShepard said:


> I think you could go a long way to spend more time mentioning what you do like. I know you have mentioned what you do like. But if most of what you put is a negative critic then folk end up just ignoring after a while. I don't agree with the majority of your views. But I do get your line on thinking on how you came to your views.
> 
> Like I wouldn't agree with you on your theory that WWE were taking it easy and waiting for AEW to essentially punch itself out as far as newness goes. But that wasn't some crazy thought process and it may have validity as NXT has found it's footing the last month and ratings are much closer.


The whole “WWE are going hard” thing is a Meltzer opinion thing. They launched prior to AEW so they could potentially shop more shows and they wanted an unopposed number. They’re sadly in the volume business. Starting against AEW would have seen NXT get slaughtered because AEW has the whole “other” thing going for them.

Meltzer and Alvarez seemed baffled as to why there wasn’t major NXT promotion on Raw and SmackDown, but I always said it was going to come later when AEW’s “newness” wears off. You can only be new once. Well, unless you’re Coke. NXT was made new to a lot of people when they got the Raw and SmackDown exposure. It’s worked. I’d say my theory holds water. It is just supposition on my behalf, but it fits much better than Dave’s “they were trying REALLY hard to get the drop on AEW.” Then why not put Daniel Bryan on NXT that first head-to-head? Because you can only do that for a first time once. It’ll happen if they need another boost. But I don’t know how AEW can turn things around and suddenly make a bunch of new viewers.



DOTL said:


> Most of the AEW haters I've seen are the same people who cheer at it doing poorly. Why? What about AEW failing is good for AEW? It doesn't have a safety net.
> 
> There's a difference between honest criticism and wanting something to fall flat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have no idea if this reality leans NXT's way. You're just pulling numbers out of your butt.


I’d say the “positivity” at AEW failing is more because the AEW trolls who can get on their high horse have to come down a bit. I’m “cheering” only because everything I have predicted and was called a troll for has come true. AEW failing is a horrible thing for wrestling. The silver-lining is that maybe someone in 20 years will learn from it.

What do you mean I don’t know if that’s the reality? That’s how ratings work. NXT has been on par with AEW. An estimated 20k win isn’t actually a literal number. And do you think it’s unreasonable to think that people either watch NXT on the Network on Thursday? What is unreasonable about that?



NathanMayberry said:


> They were hot because they were new.
> 
> There’s nothing they can do to make themselves new again, plus AEW fans made enemies of other promotions, so those people who could be fans will never be


E



captainzombie said:


> We are only 3 months in and a lot of people are expecting some really high ratings. Yes, each and every week is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I think if things are stagnant at a years time, then there is reason to be concerned. Sure last night's episode wasn't the greatest episode of Dynamite yet, and hopefully they start to learn that shows with multiple tag team matches each week are not going to hold viewers.
> 
> Guys, I can't express this over and over, we can't have AEW fail. If it fails, we probably will not see another promotion get a chance like this again for another 20 plus years. It will only set Impact and NWA further back, including NJPW as they try to expand in the US.
> 
> ROH is spinning its wheels and appeared to be at deaths door this year
> Impact has made some good moves the last 2 years to provide a solid product, but are they really growing like they did in the mid-TNA life cycle of the product?
> NWA has something new and unique going, but how long can Billy Corgan fund this project without some kind of house shows or even a TV deal where they are getting paid.
> NJPW will be fine in Japan, but their expansion in the US could be DOA if they don't partner up with one of these companies.
> MLW had a good resurgence, great talent, and some good booking but something feels off with the product that I can't put my finger on it.
> Khan may need to open up that pocketbook again and sign Scrull, Kross, Brodie Lee with including finding someone that can oversee creative because The Elite has stretched themselves to thin. Omega needs to go all out come in 2020 and show who he really is in the ring. I understand some of The Elite are trying to stay humble, but maybe it might be time to make changes and same for the Bucks, maybe cut down on some of the flippity shit that is pissing people off and break that out every so often.
> 
> It would really help to introduce some kind of mid-card title that guys can fight over as a stepping stone to the World Title. Use this title to be defended on Dark and Dynamite.
> 
> Come the February PPV I'd get the title on Moxley. Jericho has been a good first champion getting eyes on the product, but Mox is super popular right now not to pull the trigger.


And how do you think they are going to bring back the 600k people who have switched them off after being willing to give them a chance?

You are exactly right about AEW’s success being critical. That’s why I’ve been calling them out for pissing away chances. This is their fault and when tjey



Taroostyles said:


> Anyone who's rooting for AEW to fail is beyond shortsighted, if AEW doesnt make it then you can kiss any chance of a wrestling boom again goodbye. No one is coming up with these kinds of resources again, especially if they see AEW not make it.
> 
> It took 18 years to get someone this far, us as fans need it to succeed. Right now they are certainly at a crossroads as far as the tv audience goes, they are going to take a hard look at what they are presenting and make some hard decisions.


Yes, and that is why it is infuriating that they are doing this PWG/bad WWE stuff. The Dark Order closed their last TV show. It hasn’t worked ever since they started it at All Out or whenever the fuck. How is that any better than The Wyatt Family? It’s insulting, it’s chasing people away (even Meltzer is calling it), and no one is going to give wrestling another chance if it fails. That is why doing this shit that has FAILED since day one is a badidea



imthegame19 said:


> I'm not gonna bother replying to anyone who's speaking about doom and gloom or AEW going out of business. Because that's just ridiculous in my opinion, especially right now.
> 
> All I'm gonna say is these guys are still new at booking weekly tv shows. There's gonna be plenty of bumps and downs and mistakes made. The shows haven't been as good the last 5 weeks or show and it's showing in ratings. Fact is the company got off to great start and has ALOT of time to get it right. End of story.


Citation needed on the point about them having a lot of time. Do you know that? I mean, I appreciate the optimism, but I just don’t know where this idea they are going to have a million chances to make a first impression is comikg



ClintDagger said:


> What killed them was starting so low to begin with. I think people are right in that saying the brand loyalty to AEW is very weak given how new they are. A lot of people tuned in during the initial weeks hoping for an alternative to WWE and unfortunately it looks like AEW missed the mark for at least half that original number. AEW is far from dead & buried but they missed a gigantic opportunity in those early weeks. Now they will have to turn things around the hard way.


Another excellent post. There is no reason a real professional wrestling company cannot take that fucking Raw audience that must be bored out of their skulls each week. Instead they whittled themselves down to <700k. People aren’t staying loyal to this, and the worse it gets quality-wise, the more people that will walk.


----------



## DOTL

The Wood said:


> I’d say the “positivity” at AEW failing is more because the AEW trolls who can get on their high horse have to come down a bit. I’m “cheering” only because everything I have predicted and was called a troll for has come true. AEW failing is a horrible thing for wrestling. The silver-lining is that maybe someone in 20 years will learn from it.


So you're happy because it validates your ego. Got it. 

Anyway when did liking AEW make someone a troll? I'd understand if you said Anti-WWE trolls, but you literally describe being in AEW's corner, being optimistic about the companies future is the act of a troll.



> What do you mean I don’t know if that’s the reality? That’s how ratings work. NXT has been on par with AEW. An estimated 20k win isn’t actually a literal number. And do you think it’s unreasonable to think that people either watch NXT on the Network on Thursday? What is unreasonable about that?


You completely ignore the fact that AEW also has DVR, On Demand, and online views. The assessment you make isn't a compete picture of the ratings reality, and therefore not something I can take seriously as an argument.


----------



## Taroostyles

According to the WOL show, the DVR numbers for AEW are massive. They didnt give an exact number but that it is one of the most actively recorded shows on cable TV. 

That doesnt help with ad revenue but still would be interesting to see the exact totals.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Wrestling fans are the most toxic unpleasable bunch. Instead of just enjoying an event where the performers literally put their lives on the line for their entertainment and only have one take, they sure do have a lot to bitch, complain and moan about. What else is new?


----------



## ClintDagger

rbl85 said:


> Actually he is wrong because Jericho vs Darly lost viewers.
> 
> The only one who never lost any viewers is Moxley.


I went back and looked at the quarterlys and you’re right about Darby / Jericho. I need to go back and listen and make sure I heard Alvarez right. Although while going through that stuff I did see a short Moxley segment that lost viewers so he can’t make that claim either. Although the match he was in did increase.


----------



## iarwain

DOTL said:


> Firstly, Vince isn't booking NXT.


Vince isn't booking NXT, but he's got his hands on it. He's the one using NXT as a weapon against AEW, NXT wouldn't be on the USA Network if it weren't for Vince. And I'd wager he's behind putting more main roster talent on the show, and pushing them at the Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, and Wrestlemania.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Citation needed on the point about them having a lot of time. Do you know that? I mean, I appreciate the optimism, but I just don’t know where this idea they are going to have a million chances to make a first impression is comikg


You are so reactionary with this stuff. As long as they have a weekly show on TNT they will have plenty of chances. This is soon to be 2020 wrestling fans go where the buzz is at. Majority of them read rumors and dirt sheets. Or watch highlights of these shows when they aren't watching the show. There's a reason why Raw or Smackdown ratings will get million plus viewer spikes when all the legends are on. How do fans hear they will be on if they didn't watch the week before.

Look how much up and down TNA ratings over the years. Even AEW had up and down spikes depending on the show. I'm 100 percent confident that the final four shows going into the ppv and fall out show after the ppv will do 200-300 more viewers then they did this week.


Again wrestling fans aren't dumb In this day and age. They can smell filler shows mile away. If it's not must see tv they will dvr, watch on demand or just catch highlights. Put it this way, you are a wrestling fan. Even though you don't like AEW now. I'm sure if you six months from now if you see some good highlights and hear buzz you would try it again in heart beat.


Seeing PPV today sell out in less then a hour. Shows that fans will flock to a AEW show if they believe it's gonna have a strong card. People will watch Moxley/Jericho feud, Cody/MJF feud, Omega/Pac etc. While they clearly don't wanna watch random matches with top guys vs lower card guys that have very little story or build up to them. I'm confident they will learn from this.


Again you got group of people booking weekly tv for first time. They are gonna make mistakes and have ups and downs. My belief is they felt putting on entertaining in-ring action would hold viewers. Since there fanbase loves their style of wrestling matches. But the only thing that holds viewers is watching people they care about involved in something that feels meaningful. 


If it's not meaningful then they can skip it and watch fun in-ring matches later. Like I'm sure they did Omega/Page vs Lucha Bros and Young Bucks vs SCU. Yet people tuned in for Jericho because he's a star and they probably thought something meaningful with Moxley was gonna happen(sadly nothing happen).

So I think they will learn from this and won't make same mistakes during down time between Revolution and Double Or Nothing.


----------



## DOTL

iarwain said:


> Vince isn't booking NXT, but he's got his hands on it. He's the one using NXT as a weapon against AEW, NXT wouldn't be on the USA Network if it weren't for Vince. And I'd wager he's behind putting more main roster talent on the show, and pushing them at the Survivor Series, Royal Rumble, and Wrestlemania.


But ultimately, it's the quality of the show that makes it comparable to AEW. If Vince was running the show, then no one would be talking about NXT beating anything.


----------



## TheDraw

AEW fans have replaced 2010-2015 TNA fans. Paranoid about everybody being against them.

To me, AEW doesnt really have anything for me that is must see. Jericho is ok but I'm a little burned out from watching him so much iver the years. I currently find him good but not great.

Sammy Guevara has talent but makes me cringe a lot too. I wish they would have established him first instead of just throwing him in yhe inner circle so soon. Just my opinion.

Other than that, just feels like a glorified ROH to me. 

To be fair, every wrestling promotion is garbage today so its not like I'm single them out. 

Im not praise then just because they are new and have potential. I dont give a fuck about the WWE/AEW war.

ENTERTAIN ME


----------



## fabi1982

Taroostyles said:


> According to the WOL show, the DVR numbers for AEW are massive. They didnt give an exact number but that it is one of the most actively recorded shows on cable TV.
> 
> That doesnt help with ad revenue but still would be interesting to see the exact totals.


And comments like this from Melzer make him a AEW mark and him unbelievable. If they have such a huge DVR rate they should appear in the DVR raring tables but they dont. Not by total number, not by percentage and not by gain and they should if he is true. Everyone can say that when it cant be proven wrong. Sad attempt to validate the ratings from Melzer.


----------



## roadkill_

Gh0stFace said:


> Wrestling fans are the most toxic unpleasable bunch. * Instead of just enjoying an event *where the performers literally put their lives on the line for their entertainment and only have one take, they sure do have a lot to bitch, complain and moan about. What else is new?


But what if it's not enjoyable, and one still remains a wrestling fan?

Sit around and eat shit on a plate? That's what killed WWE.


----------



## rbl85

Don't watch and wait for the end of wrestling.


----------



## NathanMayberry

AEW is not going to save wrestling. 


Stop trying to get others to boost Cody and his friends' ego, just cuz you do.


----------



## rbl85

NathanMayberry said:


> AEW is not going to save wrestling.
> 
> 
> Stop trying to get others to boost Cody and his friends' ego, just cuz you do.


Nobody said that they were going to save wrestling.

Personally i think that in 50 years wrestling is gone.


----------



## shandcraig

lol and than you have NWA doing so much right and hardly anyone bitching about the product.In fact most saying how much the 2nd tapings have improved big time. Those guys know how to book and make payoffs


----------



## rbl85

shandcraig said:


> lol and than you have NWA doing so much right and hardly anyone bitching about the product.In fact most saying how much the 2nd tapings have improved big time. Those guys know how to book and make payoffs


How many people watch NWA ?

EDIT : around 150K and it's viewers from all over the world…..


----------



## shandcraig

rbl85 said:


> How many people watch NWA ?
> 
> EDIT : around 150K and it's viewers from all over the world…..



Its a much smaller scale with much less money spent.What does that have to do with peoples perspective

Impact is small and has had plenty of frustration with its direction and that sections pretty much dead except for a few people that refuse to believe anything otherwise


----------



## rbl85

shandcraig said:


> Its a much smaller scale with much less money spent.What does that have to do with peoples perspective
> 
> Impact is small and has had plenty of frustration with its direction and that sections pretty much dead except for a few people that refuse to believe anything otherwise


More people watch Asuka videos than NWA.


----------



## iarwain

DOTL said:


> If Vince was running the show, then no one would be talking about NXT beating anything.


I take your point, but not necessarily. WWE has built a certain following of people who are used to their pro wrestling served to them a certain way. If AEW was facing off against Raw or Smackdown, they'd probably be falling behind too. AEW needs to build their own brand, which is what they're doing. But Vince is determined not to let them do that. That doesn't mean he can stop them, but it's going to be a fight. 



TheDraw said:


> To me, AEW doesnt really have anything for me that is must see. Jericho is ok but I'm a little burned out from watching him so much iver the years


I like Jericho. But what AEW represents is a viable alternative to WWE, or that's what the hope is. Not only for viewers, but for the wrestlers themselves - like Moxley and Cody. They didn't like they way they were being portrayed in WWE, so this gives them another option. And even more so for the guys WWE just refuse to push.


----------



## DOTL

iarwain said:


> I take your point, but not necessarily. WWE has built a certain following of people who are used to their pro wrestling served to them a certain way. If AEW was facing off against Raw or Smackdown, they'd probably be falling behind too. AEW needs to build their own brand, which is what they're doing. But Vince is determined not to let them do that. That doesn't mean he can stop them, but it's going to be a fight.


You're right about AEW losing to RAW/SD, but that's not what I said. I said if Vince booked NXT, they would lose to AEW. This is because RAW and SD are over in spite of Vince's bad booking, and even that is becoming less true over time.


----------



## iarwain

DOTL said:


> You're right about AEW losing to RAW/SD, but that's not what I said. I said if Vince booked NXT, they would lose to AEW. This is because RAW and SD are over in spite of Vince's bad booking, and even that is becoming less true over time.


If Vince was doing the booking, they'd likely be ruining what makes NXT unique. But it might still be successful, because IMO NXT has taken the lead in the ratings because of efforts by Vince to put out that NXT is now part of the main roster, or superior to it (solely to stick it to AEW).

That's what I think anyway. Others might argue that NXT has gained ground because they have a superior product. And they have a good show, but I still think it's the former. They're succeeding because they're being embraced and pushed as part of the main WWE brand.


----------



## DJ Punk

__





Redirect Notice






www.google.com





I'm surprised no one's made a thread on this yet. Oh wait, I forgot. It isn't really thread worthy unless it's something negative about AEW, right? My mistake.


----------



## reyfan

Someone posted it in one of the other threads, good for them for selling out PPVs.


----------



## DOTL

iarwain said:


> If Vince was doing the booking, they'd likely be ruining what makes NXT unique. But it might still be successful, because IMO NXT has taken the lead in the ratings because of efforts by Vince to put out that NXT is now part of the main roster, or superior to it (solely to stick it to AEW).
> 
> That's what I think anyway. Others might argue that NXT has gained ground because they have a superior product. And they have a good show, but I still think it's the former. They're succeeding because they're being embraced and pushed as part of the main WWE brand.


I can't agree. I think the evidence shows that people are getting behind NXT to the degree they are (remember they have yet catch up with AEW in the number of ratings victories) because they are more invested in the show than they were initially. NXT's angle with the main roster did get more eyes on the product as intended, but can't be responsible for people sticking around. What is responsible is that WWE has done more to make NXT's people look more like stars.


----------



## I'mTheGreatest

That's exciting! Lets hope they deliver a fantastic show!


----------



## Stellar

Certainly great news for AEW. This is why they keep going back to Chicago, which seems to be one of their strongest places for PPVs or shows in general.


----------



## Chan Hung

It's in Chicago so its a given they were going to do well, but i'm glad that they continued to get people aboard. It will be a good crowd for sure. The test is can the company attract people to attend their live events who are not the typical base. They need to power in on that focus to add a larger field of audience members to their weekly shows.


----------



## Chan Hung

The best thing on AEW today is Jericho, MJF, Moxley. BUT they dont showcase MJF or Moxley every week. That is part of the problem.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> The best thing on AEW today is Jericho, MJF, Moxley. BUT they dont showcase MJF or Moxley every week. That is part of the problem.


Moxley missed week.


----------



## Garty

DJ Punk said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised no one's made a thread on this yet. Oh wait, I forgot. It isn't really thread worthy unless it's something negative about AEW, right? My mistake.


Yeah, you should really delete this thread immediately. I hope a Moderator sees this and takes action right away.


----------



## rbl85

Chan Hung said:


> It's in Chicago so its a given they were going to do well, but i'm glad that they continued to get people aboard. It will be a good crowd for sure. The test is can the company attract people to attend their live events who are not the typical base. They need to power in on that focus to add a larger field of audience members to their weekly shows.


The last takeover in Chicago didn't sell out so it's still pretty good.


----------



## Garty

Chan Hung said:


> It's in Chicago so its a given they were going to do well, but i'm glad that they continued to get people aboard. It will be a good crowd for sure. The test is can the company attract people to attend their live events who are not the typical base. They need to power in on that focus to add a larger field of audience members to their weekly shows.


The main-event is going to be Jericho vs Moxley. Yes, two ex-WWE guys, fighting in an AEW ring. Who cares about where they've been? Who cares about what they've done in the past? They're in AEW now, in the present, so please get over yourselves. I'm sure they will both be back "home" in a few years, just to appease the masses because there will be hell to pay if they don't.

Yet, I'm sure this will be the next talking-point here soon enough. Who's got the over-under on "# of threads"? Anyone?


----------



## imthegame19

WWE only sold out first Smackdown and Survivor Series since Summerslam. This is now 4th sell out for AEW in same time frame.

But the company a failure according to all the trolls that visit this forum lol.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> Moxley missed week.


Yeah scheduled week off for Moxley he and Renee are vacationing in Hawaii this week.


----------



## Soul Rex

I guess their ticket price is lower than WWE so you can't compare like that.

Anyways its a good news, congrats to them.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Hope they come to NY soon!


----------



## Metalhead1

Awesome news. I am really rooting for them. A refreshing alternative to the stale WWE. And their presence is making WWE step up their game too. We are really living in exciting wrestling times.


----------



## imthegame19

Soul Rex said:


> I guess their ticket price is lower than WWE so you can't compare like that.
> 
> Anyways its a good news, congrats to them.


Someone already debunked that after some troll made that excuse.


----------



## Soul Rex

imthegame19 said:


> Someone already debunked that after some troll made that excuse.


So aren't they cheaper?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

Future sell-outs coming in New York, Toronto, Las Vegas, London, Berlin, Tokyo and more

Dumbasses are gonna dumbass - this is the most successful debut of a Wrestling org ever by a massive margin

Undeniably


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

Must we do this sky is falling bullshit everytime AEW gets an okay rating? I mean in my mind that's still a decent number. Now with that said AEW has got some work to do in general as far as dynamite but I'm confident Tony/The Elite are gonna do what they need to do in order for AEW to keep thriving so lets stop the doom and gloom bullshit okay?


----------



## Deathiscoming

This thread is so unbecoming and it reeks of boredom. No negativity,no debates, no raging tempers. It reads like a boring news headline "AEW PPV sold out within 10 minutes"...blah. Disappointed!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

The Raw Smackdown said:


> Must we do this sky is falling bullshit everytime AEW gets an okay rating? I mean in my mind that's still a decent number. Now with that said AEW has got some work to do in general as far as dynamite but I'm confident Tony/The Elite are gonna do what they need to do in order for AEW to keep thriving so lets stop the doom and gloom bullshit okay?


The 1 Jan show will see the usual riff-raff crawl back into their holes mate.... nothing to see here ?‍♂


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

?????????
AEW have days till their end.


----------



## The Raw Smackdown

But I thought AEW is dying?

LMAO.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> The 1 Jan show will see the usual riff-raff crawl back into their holes mate.... nothing to see here ?‍♂


There won’t be enough hot, sweaty and muscly men cutting promos to satisfy their needs though.


----------



## P Thriller

The arena only fits like 10,000 and it is in Chicago so this isn't very surprising. That is about how many tickets sold for the latest wargames. Shame that they charge PPV prices cause I wouldn't mind watching it but AEW isn't a good enough show to pay that kind of price to watch.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

optikk sucks said:


> There won’t be enough hot, sweaty and muscly men cutting promos to satisfy their needs though.


If only there was a show where big muscle men cut promos for 3 hours long.....

Oh.... wait


----------



## imthegame19

Soul Rex said:


> So aren't they cheaper?


Depends on the show and arena. For example next Friday Smackdown from Detroit has $ 20 at tickets. While cheapest ticket available for AEW Jacksonville show on January 1st is $ 29.75.


----------



## Gh0stFace

Deathiscoming said:


> This thread is so unbecoming and it reeks of boredom. No negativity,no debates, no raging tempers. It reads like a boring news headline "AEW PPV sold out within 10 minutes"...blah. Disappointed!


That's because you're not doing your job. You're slacking....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Soul Rex said:


> So aren't they cheaper?


nah they’re pretty much the same.

















But bro that Dynamite show looks pathetic. 1st Jan I guess.


----------



## imthegame19

P Thriller said:


> The arena only fits like 10,000 and it is in Chicago so this isn't very surprising. That is about how many tickets sold for the latest wargames. Shame that they charge PPV prices cause I wouldn't mind watching it but AEW isn't a good enough show to pay that kind of price to watch.


Yes NXT had about same crowd but in bigger arena. That said due to the fact it sold out so fast(2nd AEW PPV in Chicago to sell out in less then 53 mins). Tells us they probably could sell out much bigger arena in Chicago for ppv.


----------



## reyfan

The Raw Smackdown said:


> But I thought AEW is dying?
> 
> LMAO.


If Moxley is really getting paid $115k a week and isn't there every week how long do you think they will keep this business model?


----------



## imthegame19

reyfan said:


> If Moxley is really getting paid $115k a week and isn't there every week how long do you think they will keep this business model?


Lol how much does Brock get paid per appearance not to even wrestle half the time. With it making no difference to ratings?

Anyways Moxley not making 6 million a year. It's 1-2 million tops. Also money already spent and invested. They aren't spending more money now. They making money back and cutting into their debt. They aren't adding to their debt.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

reyfan said:


> If Moxley is really getting paid $115k a week and isn't there every week how long do you think they will keep this business model?


Do you really think Moxley earns that much holy fuck


----------



## Soul Rex

optikk sucks said:


> nah they’re pretty much the same.
> 
> 
> But bro that Dynamite show looks pathetic. 1st Jan I guess.


That's great then, probably is Moxley and Jericho force, numbas dont lie.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Soul Rex said:


> That's great then, probably is Moxley and Jericho force, numbas dont lie.


Except AEW sold out their first show before Moxleys debut.

It might be because people have actually enjoyed the product overall


----------



## imthegame19

optikk sucks said:


> nah they’re pretty much the same.
> 
> View attachment 81577
> 
> View attachment 81578
> 
> But bro that Dynamite show looks pathetic. 1st Jan I guess.


Fight for Fallen had good walk up tickets. Hopefully they can get at least 3,500. Let's keep in mind Khan Family owns this arena. So they don't have to rent it. Other wise id say it would be a mistake to do this market on January 1st.


----------



## MonkasaurusRex

That's good news. 

They are running a smaller venue in a hot city (WWE should look into doing that as well) which is a shrewd business move because it ensures that you have a DEMAND for tickets as opposed to an abundance of space to fill.


----------



## imthegame19

MonkasaurusRex said:


> That's good news.
> 
> They are running a smaller venue in a hot city (WWE should look into doing that as well) which is a shrewd business move because it ensures that you have a DEMAND for tickets as opposed to an abundance of space to fill.


I think AEW should look for bigger arena. When two 10 K arena sell out in less then a hour in six months for ppvs. It tells me they could easily do bigger arena. It's difference in selling out that quickly and by the end of the show. I got tickets to Revolution and only reason I got them. Is because I found presale code and bought them the day before.


----------



## RiverFenix

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah scheduled week off for Moxley he and Renee are vacationing in Hawaii this week.


Even more reason to have had him beat down by IC and miss the week. Also will be weird for Mox to come back from Hawaii to Jacksonville for the 1st and then fly out to Japan for Jan 4th and Jan 5th. Lotta air miles.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> I think AEW should look for bigger arena. When two 10 K arena sell out in less then a hour in six months for ppvs. It tells me they could easily do bigger arena. It's difference in selling out that quickly and by the end of the show. I got tickets to Revolution and only reason I got them. Is because I found presale code and bought them the day before.


Selling out a PPV is way easier than selling an arena for a weekly show.

Look at the ticket sale for Atlanta (big arena)….


----------



## RiverFenix

Revolution is from Chicago so you know what that means - A debut of Chicago's own...






Colt Cabana


----------



## shandcraig

imthegame19 said:


> Fight for Fallen had good walk up tickets. Hopefully they can get at least 3,500. Let's keep in mind Khan Family owns this arena. So they don't have to rent it. Other wise id say it would be a mistake to do this market on January 1st.



Its such a nice unque venue for a wreatling show. It looks very cool on tv. I think they need to try to have the stage only on the stage area though. It would look better than the big screen and the tunnel to the left


----------



## captainzombie

shandcraig said:


> Its such a nice unque venue for a wreatling show. It looks very cool on tv. I think they need to try to have the stage only on the stage area though. It would look better than the big screen and the tunnel to the left


It really is quite a unique looking venue that makes their show stand out.

I wish they would get the AEW logo back in the middle of the ring mat, that really made the ring look good and different from some of the other promotions.


----------



## P Thriller

imthegame19 said:


> Yes NXT had about same crowd but in bigger arena. That said due to the fact it sold out so fast(2nd AEW PPV in Chicago to sell out in less then 53 mins). Tells us they probably could sell out much bigger arena in Chicago for ppv.


The quickness of the sellout is a good sign, I agree with that


----------



## RapShepard

Clearly they fucking kill it every time they go. It should be their unofficial official home.


----------



## imthegame19

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Even more reason to have had him beat down by IC and miss the week. Also will be weird for Mox to come back from Hawaii to Jacksonville for the 1st and then fly out to Japan for Jan 4th and Jan 5th. Lotta air miles.


It's two early for beatdowns. The ppv is still two months away. I'm sure he will be back resting back in Vegas all next week.



rbl85 said:


> Selling out a PPV is way easier than selling an arena for a weekly show.
> 
> Look at the ticket sale for Atlanta (big arena)….


Yeah weeknight and you know the show isn't gonna be big deal like ppv would be. That's why on Thanksgiving eve they only did 6,000 in Chicago for Dynamite. I live in Chicago and decided to skip going to Dynamite on November 27th too.


----------



## iarwain

DOTL said:


> I can't agree. I think the evidence shows that people are getting behind NXT to the degree they are (remember they have yet catch up with AEW in the number of ratings victories) because they are more invested in the show than they were initially.


Okay, but I'm sure a significant number of people are more invested now because it has been solidified as a legitimate third WWE brand. That's not only because they are putting good shows on, it's also because it's been promoted as such on RAW and Smackdown. Those two shows have even been sacrificed to make NXT look better. Prior to this, it was perceived by many as being mainly a developmental program.


----------



## Jonhern

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah scheduled week off for Moxley he and Renee are vacationing in Hawaii this week.


Makes sense, half way to Japan for wrestlekingdom next week. Doubt he will be on new year's too.


----------



## imthegame19

Jonhern said:


> Makes sense, half way to Japan for wrestlekingdom next week. Doubt he will be on new year's too.


Hes not staying in Hawaii that long and he will probably be back in Vegas for the holidays. He's probably just taking a vacation with his wife after he had busy year. Between WWE, New Japan, AEW and filming a movie.


Plus they are promoting him for January 1st show with Jericho surprise for him or whatever. So you know that's gonna turn bad for Inner Circle when Moxley says no and takes them out.


----------



## Miguel De Juan

I think the decline in the show has more to do with the audience knowing the top babyface Cody can never win the world title. A stupid decision on the guys in Elite. It also shows me that njpw's strategy of the long, slow game is better for business than what AEW is doing. NJPW/Gedo/Bushi road has long term plans for at least the next five years. AEW looks like its planning doesn't have that all. Dark Order show be a low/mid level heel groups feuding with guys like Havoc and others not the Elite. Brandy should just be a manager for Cody not having her own group. They brought this on themselves. They push women who are not ready for their spots. The joshi wrestlers should be having the long matches. NJPW suffered less from the split from the Elite as we find in a year than the Elite did from spliting from NJPW. They started off hot but are cooling off.


----------



## DJ Punk

My thread was merged here? I was kind of kidding about only negative topics being allowed in the AEW section of the forum, but now I'm not so sure...


----------



## RainmakerV2

DJ Punk said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Redirect Notice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm surprised no one's made a thread on this yet. Oh wait, I forgot. It isn't really thread worthy unless it's something negative about AEW, right? My mistake.



WWE sells out all their big 4 shows and does 60K plus at Mania every year and no one cares. You want them treated like a big company or no?


----------



## DJ Punk

RainmakerV2 said:


> WWE sells out all their big 4 shows and does 60K plus at Mania every year and no one cares. You want them treated like a big company or no?


When's the last time WWE sold out an arena in under an hour though?


----------



## rbl85

RainmakerV2 said:


> *WWE sells out all their big 4 shows *and does 60K plus at Mania every year and no one cares. You want them treated like a big company or no?


Yeah but never that fast.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DJ Punk said:


> When's the last time WWE sold out an arena in under an hour though?


And? They run 4 ppvs a year and this is their home base. Let them run 12 like WWE and see how many sell outs they get.


----------



## DJ Punk

RainmakerV2 said:


> And? They run 4 ppvs a year and this is their home base. Let them run 12 like WWE and see how many sell outs they get.


Are you seriously downplaying AEW selling out an arena for a PPV in under an hour? Really?

This is why no one takes all this AEW hate seriously. It just reeks of ignorance, tribalism, and desperation.

You don't like AEW? Fine. But selling out an arena in under an hour is impressive and you can't convince me otherwise.


----------



## RainmakerV2

DJ Punk said:


> Are you seriously downplaying AEW selling out an arena for a PPV in under an hour? Really?
> 
> This is why no one takes all this AEW hate seriously. It just reeks of ignorance, tribalism, and desperation.
> 
> You don't like AEW? Fine. But selling out an arena in under an hour is impressive and you can't convince me otherwise.


They only run 4 a year and its in Chicago. They should sell it out. No, I dont hate AEW. Ill say it again, the build up to Full Gear was some of the best wrestling TV I have seen in years. Post Full Gear has been bad. Pretty damn bad. Is AEW dying? Jesus, of course not, and you guys who come in here and go.."oh they sold out an arena hahahah i thought they were dying noobs!" You make yourself look stupid because no one is arguing that except obvious trolls. AND even if they were "dying", as long as Daddy Khan wants to keep funding Tonys playground, it wouldn't go anywhere any way.

My only point was, if you want AEW to be a legit big deal, selling out a PPV in Chicago when you only run 4 a year shouldn't be cause for some big celebration. If they ran 12 a year and had one in Seattle Washington what would the sales look like? Would the trolls be able to huff about it as much as you celebrate it?


----------



## RiverFenix

All In, All Out, Revolution have all been in Chicago. As was Thanksgiving Dynamite and the show the next week was an hour or so outside of Chicago. They plan to go back their yearly for All Out shows Labor Day weekend and for Thanksgiving Eve Dynamite. Tony Khan grew up in Chicago area and has said many times he considered it AEW's home base.


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> WWE sells out all their big 4 shows and does 60K plus at Mania every year and no one cares. You want them treated like a big company or no?


The big 4 don't always sell out, I think only summerslam was a legit sell out this year. And mania doesn't always sellout either, NOLA last year was not a sell out, they priced tickets too high for the local market I think. Tampa will not be a sell out the way things are going. That's not even all the tickets left on TM, you will usually see a bunch more tickets pop up after they assign seats for travel packages. Rumble too is unlikely to sell out next month. But to be fair, rumble would probably sell out if it was in an arena.

Overall demand for wwe just hit a wall last year, the secondary market has been trash last couple of years. Even after already buying tickets, some of us would easily buy better seats for wwe events in years past if they came up, they are released in waves, knowing it would be easy to flip the old tickets to break even or even make a profit. But man that is not the case anymore, you are more likely to take a big loss these days than even break even.



DJ Punk said:


> When's the last time WWE sold out an arena in under an hour though?


Summerslam was the last fast one, don't remember the exact time but it was fast. Presale sold out fast and once the official sale started it was a bad experience on TM, not as bad like it was for all out or the first few dynamite shows, but there was a lot of demand. I was able to get hard cam tickets shortly after they went on sale which are usually the last tickets they put up.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Jonhern said:


> The big 4 don't always sell out, I think only summerslam was a legit sell out this year. And mania doesn't always sellout either, NOLA last year was not a sell out, they priced tickets too high for the local market I think. Tampa will not be a sell out the way things are going. That's not even all the tickets left on TM, you will usually see a bunch more tickets pop up after they assign seats for travel packages. Rumble too is unlikely to sell out next month. But to be fair, rumble would probably sell out if it was in an arena.
> 
> Overall demand for wwe just hit a wall last year, the secondary market has been trash last couple of years. Even after already buying tickets, some of us would easily buy better seats for wwe events in years past if they came up, they are released in waves, knowing it would be easy to flip the old tickets to break even or even make a profit. But man that is not the case anymore, you are more likely to take a big loss these days than even break even.
> 
> 
> Summerslam was the last fast one, don't remember the exact time but it was fast. Presale sold out fast and once the official sale started it was a bad experience on TM, not as bad like it was for all out or the first few dynamite shows, but there was a lot of demand. I was able to get hard cam tickets shortly after they went on sale which are usually the last tickets they put up.


I never said Mania sold out. Also should have tacked on to my big 4 point ," when in a regular arena."


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> They only run 4 a year and its in Chicago. They should sell it out. No, I dont hate AEW. Ill say it again, the build up to Full Gear was some of the best wrestling TV I have seen in years. Post Full Gear has been bad. Pretty damn bad. Is AEW dying? Jesus, of course not, and you guys who come in here and go.."oh they sold out an arena hahahah i thought they were dying noobs!" You make yourself look stupid because no one is arguing that except obvious trolls. AND even if they were "dying", as long as Daddy Khan wants to keep funding Tonys playground, it wouldn't go anywhere any way.
> 
> My only point was, if you want AEW to be a legit big deal, selling out a PPV in Chicago when you only run 4 a year shouldn't be cause for some big celebration. If they ran 12 a year and had one in Seattle Washington what would the sales look like? Would the trolls be able to huff about it as much as you celebrate it?


Being in Chicago shouldn't diminish it, a sell out is a sell out. Wwe can't even sell out thier so called home arena in MSG, selling out Chicago 3 times is still a big deal. Like really people keep forgetting it's a BRAND NEW company. They are overplaying the bad things and underplaying the good things because they forget that simple fact.


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> I never said Mania sold out. Also should have tacked on to my big 4 point ," when in a regular arena."


Yeah you did, you said big 4 always sells out, mania is the biggest of the big 4. And that statement is not true even if you disregard mania. Rumble might sell out in a normal arena but that's not a given, depends on the city. Last time they sold out was in Philly. Survivor series is the weakest of the four.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Jonhern said:


> Being in Chicago shouldn't diminish it, a sell out is a sell out. Wwe can't even sell out thier so called home arena in MSG, selling out Chicago 3 times is still a big deal. Like really people keep forgetting it's a BRAND NEW company. They are overplaying the bad things and underplaying the good things because they forget that simple fact.



Lol wut. MSG isnt their home arena anymore. Barclays is.


----------



## Jonhern

RainmakerV2 said:


> Lol wut. MSG isnt their home arena anymore. Barclays is.


That's why I said so called home arena, just like Sears center is aew so called home arena. And in the same city aew sold out and wwe could not. Don't act like Barclays and MSG are in totally different markets.


----------



## NathanMayberry

DJ Punk said:


> When's the last time WWE sold out an arena in under an hour though?


When was the last time WWE had tickets as cheap as AEW did for their PPVs?


----------



## RapShepard

It's great that AEW sold out their PPV. But if you gloat about how fast they sell out, you can't then cry about it when folk mock them for having a lot of empty seats at a taping.

The thing is when you make numbers such a big talking point when they're positive, you have to be prepared to have them be a big talking point when they're negative.


----------



## rbl85

Wrestling fans : Like 80-90% of the show
Wrestling fans : Only talk about the 10-20% that they didn't like.

Wrestling fans : Mock a company when it have empty seats
Wrestling fans : Downplay when the company sells out shows....


----------



## RainmakerV2

RapShepard said:


> It's great that AEW sold out their PPV. But if you gloat about how fast they sell out, you can't then cry about it when folk mock them for having a lot of empty seats at a taping.
> 
> The thing is when you make numbers such a big talking point when they're positive, you have to be prepared to have them be a big talking point when they're negative.



Shh, too much logic to comprehend


----------



## Chan Hung

The wrestling Observer reports that Chris Jericho has never lost viewers nor lost a segment against NXT which is pretty interesting and it just shows you that star power is really important


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> It's great that AEW sold out their PPV. *But if you gloat about how fast they sell out, you can't then cry about it when folk mock them for having a lot of empty seats at a taping.*
> 
> The thing is when you make numbers such a big talking point when they're positive, you have to be prepared to have them be a big talking point when they're negative.


i always wondered about this. When something you like succeeds, its normal to be happy. Why if there is a failure, then people think ‘ok, let’s shitpile on to prove their prior happiness was unwarranted’ - it is such a weird internet phenomenon

there’s a psychological thesis in there somewhere centred about the validation an online pack mentality gives you I think. (for good and ill)


----------



## Dickhead1990

Lheurch said:


> Because ratings = ad buys = revenue to fund your company...


Which is of no concern to any of us. Besides, in this day and age, there are other metrics other than ratings to go by for ad revenue.


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i always wondered about this. When something you like succeeds, its normal to be happy. Why if there is a failure, then people think ‘ok, let’s shitpile on to prove their prior happiness was unwarranted’ - it is such a weird internet phenomenon
> 
> there’s a psychological thesis in there somewhere centred about the validation an online pack mentality gives you I think. (for good and ill)


I don't think it's about the internet as it is in general. Take for instance sports. The Patriots do a lot of winning so their fans are happy and they gloat about it. So when the Patriots lose folk fed up with the gloating like to stick it to their fans. Tbh I think in sports it's part of the fun. Since Wrestling isn't a direct competition folk take pride in their preferred company or wrestlers. 

I mean when AEW had those string of sell outs AEW fans were applauding the sell outs and a lot were laughing at WWE tarping shit. So now they're getting that smugness back that's all. Conversely NJPW don't really gloat about the attendance so if attendance is down it's less of a story.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> I don't think it's about the internet as it is in general. Take for instance sports. The Patriots do a lot of winning so their fans are happy and they gloat about it. So when the Patriots lose folk fed up with the gloating like to stick it to their fans. Tbh I think in sports it's part of the fun. Since Wrestling isn't a direct competition folk take pride in their preferred company or wrestlers.
> 
> I mean when AEW had those string of sell outs AEW fans were applauding the *sell outs and a lot were laughing at WWE tarping shit.* So now they're getting that smugness back that's all. Conversely NJPW don't really gloat about the attendance so if attendance is down it's less of a story.


to be fair, that was a meme that started on the WWE forum

the sports thing, i get you - good natured ribbing has 100% its place.

in an online environment - in any hobby / sport - the vitriol and schadenfreude just seems more.... visceral maybe?

there was a study done that being told ‘you’re wrong’ - fires the same neurons in the brain that sends signals for the pain centres. So, being told you’re wrong, basically puts your body in pain 

So, i guess the opposite - being ‘right’ - might end up feeding into the other side of the brain. Validation, pleasure, et all.

just interesting to me


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> to be fair, that was a meme that started on the WWE forum
> 
> the sports thing, i get you - good natured ribbing has 100% its place.
> 
> in an online environment - in any hobby / sport - the vitriol and schadenfreude just seems more.... visceral maybe?
> 
> there was a study done that being told ‘you’re wrong’ - fires the same neurons in the brain that sends signals for the pain centres. So, being told you’re wrong, basically puts your body in pain
> 
> So, i guess the opposite - being ‘right’ - might end up feeding into the other side of the brain. Validation, pleasure, et all.
> 
> just interesting to me


That and the combination of folk ramp their assholeness up a notch online. I think it could be good nature ribbing if it was in person. But never knew being told you're wrong caused literal pain.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> That and the combination of folk ramp their assholeness up a notch online. I think it could be good nature ribbing if it was in person. But never knew being told you're wrong caused literal pain.


yeah - quite an interesting study which explains - especially younger people’s - reaction to being told you’re wrong outright. That is why when managing people, it is important how you correct mistakes

that doesn’t mean not to be strict - but the ‘you’re wrong without any discussion’ is normally an avenue to aggression

.... but, that is me on a tangent ?‍♂ 

Back to the ratings


----------



## DJ Punk

RapShepard said:


> It's great that AEW sold out their PPV. But if you gloat about how fast they sell out, you can't then cry about it when folk mock them for having a lot of empty seats at a taping.
> 
> The thing is when you make numbers such a big talking point when they're positive, you have to be prepared to have them be a big talking point when they're negative.


I understand that, but it feels like the negativity has been vastly outnumbering the positivity as of late. And not just in the topic of ticket sales. It hasn't even been a year and I see like 80% of AEW topics focusing on negatives. Would it hurt to highlight a positive in this cesspool of negativity?


----------



## RapShepard

DJ Punk said:


> I understand that, but it feels like the negativity has been vastly outnumbering the positivity as of late. And not just in the topic of ticket sales. It hasn't even been a year and I see like 80% of AEW topics focusing on negatives. Would it hurt to highlight a positive in this cesspool of negativity?


I think it's more due to a lot of the AEW section didn't come back after the site switched. Don't think I've seen like Looper or Beatles since


----------



## DJ Punk

RapShepard said:


> I think it's more due to a lot of the AEW section didn't come back after the site switched. Don't think I've seen like Looper or Beatles since


That would explain it lol. Feel like twitter's been pretty weird about AEW too though.


----------



## imthegame19

DJ Punk said:


> That would explain it lol. Feel like twitter's been pretty weird about AEW too though.


People on Twitter crap on every thing and love to gang up with negativity when something negative happens. So it's not just AEW that gets that treatment.

I think the issue is a lot of people under the age of 30. Are only old enough to remember WWE as a major wrestling company. They grew up WWE fans and love the company. Even though they trash it when the show is bad. Still they don't want competition or alternative. They just want WWE to be better and nothing else. So when AEW comes with all this big hype of having Khan family owning them, selling out shows in minutes and getting on TNT.


Then they see guy like Moxley jump ship and internet starts rumors of mass WWE exits. Even though a guy like Jericho said many times they don't want most of the guys who are on WWE roster and just a select few. Well all that upset a lot of WWE diehard fanboys. So when AEW newness wore off and they had some ups and downs. Well those trolls come out in full force.

Sadly it's always same crap with those people/trolls. When AEW has some success. The excuse is well it's not as good as Raw or Smackdown. When it's not realistic to do as good as Raw or Smackdown this early in the game. But those people don't get common sense. So then when they have a bad week all the losers start talking doom and gloom nonsense. The trolling and ridiculous posts are just boring at this point.


Sadly it's not going away and they will always find some excuse. But AEW not going away either. So those people can learn to adapt and get use to having two big wrestling. Along having another company that could someday compete with WWE at a high level and hopefully that leads to WWE product getting better. Or they continue to waste their time and lives on the internet doing pointless trolling.


I think what what need to do is just ignore and not respond to them to any of them no matter how ridiculous the comments are. Then they will get bored and go masturbate in their parents basements instead of trolling AEW fans all day.


----------



## Gh0stFace

RapShepard said:


> It's great that AEW sold out their PPV. But if you gloat about how fast they sell out, you can't then cry about it when folk mock them for having a lot of empty seats at a taping.
> 
> The thing is when you make numbers such a big talking point when they're positive, you have to be prepared to have them be a big talking point when they're negative.


Dude those pictures that you saw were very misleading. It the hard camera section. Those weren't even for sale. Cody confirmed they had utilized 80% of the building which is great for an obscure new town.. and also Meltzer confirmed that they only sold 800 less tickets than RAW. So please don't believe everything you read on the internet. Looks are deceiving



RainmakerV2 said:


> They only run 4 a year and its in Chicago. They should sell it out. No, I dont hate AEW. Ill say it again, the build up to Full Gear was some of the best wrestling TV I have seen in years. Post Full Gear has been bad. Pretty damn bad. Is AEW dying? Jesus, of course not, and you guys who come in here and go.."oh they sold out an arena hahahah i thought they were dying noobs!" You make yourself look stupid because no one is arguing that except obvious trolls. AND even if they were "dying", as long as Daddy Khan wants to keep funding Tonys playground, it wouldn't go anywhere any way.
> 
> My only point was, if you want AEW to be a legit big deal, selling out a PPV in Chicago when you only run 4 a year shouldn't be cause for some big celebration. If they ran 12 a year and had one in Seattle Washington what would the sales look like? Would the trolls be able to huff about it as much as you celebrate it?


Bro on a serious note, why do you have Corbin as your avatar?



imthegame19 said:


> People on Twitter crap on every thing and love to gang up with negativity when something negative happens. So it's not just AEW that gets that treatment.
> 
> I think the issue is a lot of people under the age of 30. Are only old enough to remember WWE as a major wrestling company. They grew up WWE fans and love the company. Even though they trash it when the show is bad. Still they don't want competition or alternative. They just want WWE to be better and nothing else. So when AEW comes with all this big hype of having Khan family owning them, selling out shows in minutes and getting on TNT.
> 
> 
> Then they see guy like Moxley jump ship and internet starts rumors of mass WWE exits. Even though a guy like Jericho said many times they don't want most of the guys who are on WWE roster and just a select few. Well all that upset a lot of WWE diehard fanboys. So when AEW newness wore off and they had some ups and downs. Well those trolls come out in full force.
> 
> Sadly it's always same crap with those people/trolls. When AEW has some success. The excuse is well it's not as good as Raw or Smackdown. When it's not realistic to do as good as Raw or Smackdown this early in the game. But those people don't get common sense. So then when they have a bad week all the losers start talking doom and gloom nonsense. The trolling and ridiculous posts are just boring at this point.
> 
> 
> Sadly it's not going away and they will always find some excuse. But AEW not going away either. So those people can learn to adapt and get use to having two big wrestling. Along having another company that could someday compete with WWE at a high level and hopefully that leads to WWE product getting better. Or they continue to waste their time and lives on the internet doing pointless trolling.
> 
> 
> I think what what need to do is just ignore and not respond to them to any of them no matter how ridiculous the comments are. Then they will get bored and go masturbate in their parents basements instead of trolling AEW fans all day.


I couldn't have summed it up better. Despite WWE treating the fans like complete idiots and morons, Vince even saying "fuck them" when asked about fans' opinions -- they continue their blind allegiance and see any potential competitor as a threat to their existence.


----------



## RapShepard

Gh0stFace said:


> Dude those pictures that you saw were very misleading. It the hard camera section. Those weren't even for sale. Cody confirmed they had utilized 80% of the building which is great for an obscure new town.. and also Meltzer confirmed that they only sold 800 less tickets than RAW. So please don't believe everything you read on the internet. Looks are deceiving


I don't care whether they sell out or sell nothing. The shows are entertaining for me regardless of how packed or empty the arenas are. But AEW is going to continue to get the WWE treatment of constant critcism and mockery deserved or not. Especially since a lot of AEW fans yourself included like to gloat about them. 

It's just what happens to major wrestling companies apparently. I don't get the logic of trying to mock a brand new company that's selling 100k PPVs each time out and has sold 100k tickets. If folk mock WWE who sells more tickets and gets more viewers than AEW, then unfortunately AEW isn't safe from criticism despite how new they are.


----------



## Gh0stFace

RapShepard said:


> I don't care whether they sell out or sell nothing. The shows are entertaining for me regardless of how packed or empty the arenas are. But AEW is going to continue to get the WWE treatment of constant critcism and mockery deserved or not. Especially since a lot of AEW fans yourself included like to gloat about them.
> 
> It's just what happens to major wrestling companies apparently. I don't get the logic of trying to mock a brand new company that's selling 100k PPVs each time out and has sold 100k tickets. If folk mock WWE who sells more tickets and gets more viewers than AEW, then unfortunately AEW isn't safe from criticism despite how new they are.


I hear what you're saying. They've barely been on TV for 3 months so I find it unfair when they make such comparisons. Especially knowing that WWE acknowledged AEW and congratulated them on their success. WWE fans are very toxic. Even drew Young Bucks off Twitter, according to their father they had enough of the toxicity. Why is it so hard for people to just be satisfied when they're getting consistently good shows while RAW & Smackdown remain pretty much unwatchable? It's crazy how one minor little botch will break Twitter, it's like AEW isn't allowed to make any mistakes. I didn't even notice it or thought it was that big of a deal when I saw it.


----------



## RapShepard

Gh0stFace said:


> I hear what you're saying. They've barely been on TV for 3 months so I find it unfair when they make such comparisons. Especially knowing that WWE acknowledged AEW and congratulated them on their success. WWE fans are very toxic. Even drew Young Bucks off Twitter, according to their father they had enough of the toxicity. Why is it so hard for people to just be satisfied when they're getting consistently good shows while RAW & Smackdown remain pretty much unwatchable? It's crazy how one minor little botch will break Twitter, it's like AEW isn't allowed to make any mistakes. I didn't even notice it or thought it was that big of a deal when I saw it.


The problem with this is you're taking a victim mentality on behalf of them essentially. 

AEW fans have been just as toxic, and may have brought a lot of the negativity onto themselves. 

The Buck's have been all fine with taking shots at WWE and folk for years. So them or you trying to act like them getting hit with mockery is a case of toxicness is a classic case of being able to dish it, but not take it. 

Maybe just maybe some people find AEW unwatchable? 

WWE gets even more undeserved negative criticism than AEW does. The difference is your okay with them getting it because you're not a fan of them.


----------



## kingfrass44

Gh0stFace said:


> I hear what you're saying. They've barely been on TV for 3 months so I find it unfair when they make such comparisons. Especially knowing that WWE acknowledged AEW and congratulated them on their success. WWE fans are very toxic. Even drew Young Bucks off Twitter, according to their father they had enough of the toxicity. Why is it so hard for people to just be satisfied when they're getting consistently good shows while RAW & Smackdown remain pretty much unwatchable? It's crazy how one minor little botch will break Twitter, it's like AEW isn't allowed to make any mistakes. I didn't even notice it or thought it was that big of a deal when I saw it.


You bring excuses


----------



## IronMan8

Negativity on Twitter isn't as negative as it appears. Seriously.

Someone might have 100 positives thoughts/experiences relating to AEW, then they find a bit of humour in a botch, so they post about it with a dry sense of language.

Most people aren't anywhere near as negative as they appear in social media text.

And therein lies the problems of "listening to fans"... what exactly are you listening to?


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

...... it has begun.

If Okada is for it.... and now the Ace is for it

We'll be seeing the start of a NJPW / AEW colab in 2020

PS> posting this here, as the weekly thread just seems to disappear for some reason


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1209141119080108032


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... it has begun.
> 
> If Okada is for it.... and now the Ace is for it
> 
> We'll be seeing the start of a NJPW / AEW colab in 2020
> 
> PS> posting this here, as the weekly thread just seems to disappear for some reason
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1209141119080108032


now i dont care much for the NJPW style, but if it means more eyes on the product, then im in for it. Good for Business.

Some idiot will try and find something negative about this though.


----------



## RapShepard

If that partnership leads to Suzuki vs Pentagon I'm all for it.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

RapShepard said:


> If that partnership leads to Suzuki vs Pentagon I'm all for it.


i've never known I wanted this until this very moment

I thought the best we could ever hope for was Suzuki v Mox

But Suzuki v Pentagon is like next level of 'I want it'


----------



## RapShepard

LifeInCattleClass said:


> i've never known I wanted this until this very moment
> 
> I thought the best we could ever hope for was Suzuki v Mox
> 
> But Suzuki v Pentagon is like next level of 'I want it'


Would be so hard hitting and violent. Just seeing how Suzuki would react to Penta trying to Cero Miedo him alone is a dream moment lol


----------



## RiverFenix

AEW Penta has become too clownish. He just prances around and spams his catch phrase. He's been mailing it in since they lost the tag tournament. Suzuki vs Mox or Suzuki vs PAC though - Oh MY!!


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> AEW Penta has become too clownish. He just prances around and spams his catch phrase. He's been mailing it in since they lost the tag tournament. Suzuki vs Mox or Suzuki vs PAC though - Oh MY!!


Penta will step it up again in singles for sure

he’s hiding his lazy ass behind Fenix

Suzuki will wake him up


----------



## llj

AEW needs a NJPW partnership more than NJPW needs them.


----------



## rbl85

llj said:


> AEW needs a NJPW partnership more than NJPW needs them.


Actually i don't think a partnership with NWJP will change anything in the ratings for TNT.

It would probably increase the number of viewers on FiteTV but not on TNT.


----------



## LifeInCattleClass

llj said:


> AEW needs a NJPW partnership more than NJPW needs them.


...... you serious?

This is a win/win by any measure


----------



## The Wood

bdon said:


> They killed Kenny’s drawing power.


What drawing power? When has Omega ever been a genuine North American draw?



Majmo_Mendez said:


> Delusional 'E drones LARPing as concerned AEW fans. Yikes. Mods really should purge this filth.


Lol, Seaford is a fucking stalwart around these parts. Can we please stop with the automatic assumption that people who don’t like AEW must



RapShepard said:


> The problem with this is you're taking a victim mentality on behalf of them essentially.
> 
> AEW fans have been just as toxic, and may have brought a lot of the negativity onto themselves.
> 
> The Buck's have been all fine with taking shots at WWE and folk for years. So them or you trying to act like them getting hit with mockery is a case of toxicness is a classic case of being able to dish it, but not take it.
> 
> Maybe just maybe some people find AEW unwatchable?
> 
> WWE gets even more undeserved negative criticism than AEW does. The difference is your okay with them getting it because you're not a fan of them.


Excellent post! I’m definitely in the camp that finds this shit unwatchable.



llj said:


> AEW needs a NJPW partnership more than NJPW needs them.


At this point, yes, but I think a partnership favors New Japan, just for exposure. I don’t think it happens though. Can you imagine a streaming service other than B/R Live or FITE being promoted on TNT?


----------



## RiverFenix

LifeInCattleClass said:


> ...... you serious?
> 
> This is a win/win by any measure


NJPW is an established, successful company, AEW is less than a year into it's very existance. NJPW is starting a American off-shoot that will be direct competition to AEW. NJPW gains little actually unless their offshoot is a failure at which time a partnership might make sense.


----------



## IronMan8

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> NJPW is an established, successful company, AEW is less than a year into it's very existance. NJPW is starting a American off-shoot that will be direct competition to AEW. NJPW gains little actually unless their offshoot is a failure at which time a partnership might make sense.


It’s all appealing to the exact same audience though.

I remember the original hype behind Nakamura in NXT. He’s good to watch, but nothing mind-blowing and definitely not a draw to people outside the bubble.

An AEW/NJPW alliance purely serves the current fanbase you’ve already got.


----------



## BigCy

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the potential matches but I don't want AEW's goofiness to bleed into NJPW. I just want a loose working arrangement with the two companies but where neither of them lose their identity.....unless AEW wants to adopt the NJPW style and get rid of the silliness then I would be all for it.


----------



## shandcraig

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> NJPW is an established, successful company, AEW is less than a year into it's very existance. NJPW is starting a American off-shoot that will be direct competition to AEW. NJPW gains little actually unless their offshoot is a failure at which time a partnership might make sense.



Thought they already have the American bit. What else are they adding?


----------



## rbl85

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> NJPW is an established, successful company, AEW is less than a year into it's very existance. *NJPW is starting a American off-shoot that will be direct competition to AEW.* NJPW gains little actually unless their offshoot is a failure at which time a partnership might make sense.


Not at all, you can't be direct competition when you don't a live tv show.


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> Not at all, you can't be direct competition when you don't a live tv show.


Yes, you are. You are content that is competing for eyeballs with other content.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> Yes, you are. You are content that is competing for eyeballs with other content.


Are they airing on Wednesday as well? In that case you’ve got 3 products all sharing the same eyeballs.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Are they airing on Wednesday as well? In that case you’ve got 3 products all sharing the same eyeballs.


I’ve got no clue, but I can see Tanahashi beating Jericho, as well as someone beating Mox as a platform to shop their shit around.


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> Are they airing on Wednesday as well? In that case you’ve got 3 products all sharing the same eyeballs.


They are airing nothing.


----------



## KrysRaw1

Since the debut of AEW, as of today based on ratings, attendance numbers and internal stats most of the casuals who began watching AEW have left.
What has killed off casuals is the booking , ie Dork Order, not enough mic time, and not giving more focus to MJF, Moxley etc .

They need to make 2020 changes asap


----------



## rbl85

Thanks captain obvious.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1209880328464162818
Finally trying the NY/NJ market. What politics was keeping them out? Vince was blocking MSG - was he also blocking Barclays?


----------



## Chan Hung

I think the small break will help AEW when they return back in January. Meltzer actually had a good idea when he said instead of building a match for a ppv that is months away, they should have a mini type of ppv every month on TV ala Takeover that way there is more focus and progress as well as the wait doesnt seem so long until the ppv.


----------



## qntntgood

Everyone needs to chill, wrestling has always struggled during holiday months.hell,raw just pulled it's lowest rating in years a 1.8 million viewers.wrestling is down in general,and no one is really blowing anyone out the water.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

I'm thoroughly convinced a lot of the smartasses here don't know what *filler episodes* are. They're obviously setting up January 1st as were shit starts getting back on track with the Inner Circle/Moxley confrontation, MJF's return promo, a women's championship match and the rematch between Cody and Darby. I'm pretty sure the folks at AEW didn't think Cody dicking around with Butcher & Blade, Moxley barely doing anything the last two episodes, and Jericho being in a sub-feud with the virtually unknown Jungle Boy would be massive ratings spikes and they're probably okay with that (especially given that NXT went hard into the last episode of the year with two title matches).

Quit acting like you're so much smarter than the people booking the show when you can't even pay attention to the basic fucking direction of the show.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Post-Modern Devil said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced a lot of the smartasses here don't know what *filler episodes* are. They're obviously setting up January 1st as were shit starts getting back on track with the Inner Circle/Moxley confrontation, MJF's return promo, a women's championship match and the rematch between Cody and Darby. I'm pretty sure the folks at AEW didn't think Cody dicking around with Butcher & Blade, Moxley barely doing anything the last two episodes, and Jericho being in a sub-feud with the virtually unknown Jungle Boy would be massive ratings spikes and they're probably okay with that (especially given that NXT went hard into the last episode of the year with two title matches).
> 
> Quit acting like you're so much smarter than the people booking the show when you can't even pay attention to the basic fucking direction of the show.


AEW aren't meant to give us filler shows. I expect better from a start up.


----------



## Joe Gill

Post-Modern Devil said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced a lot of the smartasses here don't know what *filler episodes* are. They're obviously setting up January 1st as were shit starts getting back on track with the Inner Circle/Moxley confrontation, MJF's return promo, a women's championship match and the rematch between Cody and Darby. I'm pretty sure the folks at AEW didn't think Cody dicking around with Butcher & Blade, Moxley barely doing anything the last two episodes, and Jericho being in a sub-feud with the virtually unknown Jungle Boy would be massive ratings spikes and they're probably okay with that (especially given that NXT went hard into the last episode of the year with two title matches).
> 
> Quit acting like you're so much smarter than the people booking the show when you can't even pay attention to the basic fucking direction of the show.





optikk sucks said:


> AEW aren't meant to give us filler shows. I expect better from a start up.


AEW has only been on tv for a few months and only do one 2 hour show per week on tv and do no house shows. If they are already doing filler shows thats a huge red flag. Bottom line is that last weeks show was a joke with a cringe ending. The show has been slipping the last 3-4 weeks. If they dont get their act together 400-500k will be the new norm in a few months.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

Joe Gill said:


> AEW has only been on tv for a few months and only do one 2 hour show per week on tv and do no house shows. If they are already doing filler shows thats a huge red flag. Bottom line is that last weeks show was a joke with a cringe ending. The show has been slipping the last 3-4 weeks. If they dont get their act together 400-500k will be the new norm in a few months.


absolutely

there are those people who blindly hate on AEW and then there are those who seem to be literally fans of everything, including putting on filler shows. blind haters are the worst out of the 2, but that's not saying much.

when NXT are putting on Cole vs Balor at the end of the year and AEW are putting on useless filler shows, cmon why?


----------



## rbl85

optikk sucks said:


> absolutely
> 
> there are those people who blindly hate on AEW and then there are those who seem to be literally fans of everything, including putting on filler shows. blind haters are the worst out of the 2, but that's not saying much.
> 
> when NXT are putting on Cole vs Balor at the end of the year and AEW are putting on useless filler shows, *cmon why?*


Because even if it's the end of the year it was a normal show for them.

Last week was a special week for NXT and next week will be a special week for AEW.


----------



## bdon

January 1st has 2 segments dedicated to Cody.

Kenny has a 6 man tag match.

_yawn_


----------



## rbl85

bdon said:


> January 1st has 2 segments dedicated to Cody.
> 
> Kenny has a 6 man tag match.
> 
> _yawn_


Cody is way more over and way more known than Omega.


----------



## imthegame19

They are still watching. Just not live recently. Once they start building towards ppv. Those people will watch again. They just aren't watching these filler shows from start to finish.


----------



## JBLGOAT

Well, the casuals expected WCW 2.0 with Tony Khan throwing money at the screen and that didn't happen...


----------



## red dead2

I knew this was going to happen from the beginning when guys like Cody Rhodes and Tony Khan stated that they were looking to make a pure wrestling show with win/loss records.

Win/loss records just do not work in the world of pro-wrestling. I mean how is a wrestler supposed to get over when they have a 0-4 record? Imagine if WWE had a such a thing in the 90s? Guys like Jeff Hardy, Edge, Bradshaw, even Kurt Angle would have been made to look extremely weak to the average viewer.

Now coming to AEW's first mistake which was how they launched their product. Before the first show AEW should have pulled out all stops to sign big names in wrestling history to the company & brought in celebrities from the MMA world. 

Cain Valasquez and CM Punk should have already been signed as mystery debutantes on the first show. Imagine the buzz and positivity that would have come out with two mystery appearances of that magnitude?

They could have even brought out guys like Scott Steiner, RVD, Ken Anderson, Tazz even Tommy Dreamer on the first night just to showcase the Legacy that AEW would be continuing. I am in no means suggesting that they should have hired these guys to wrestle week in and week out. But to make sporadic appearances just to give historical name recognition to AEW on it's first night. 

last problem is the lack of big wrestlers. I had a freind watch AEW for the first time and while he liked the show for the most part he complained that there weren't enough big guys and the matches did not have a big feel to them. This Should have been rectified from the get go - why weren't guys like Nick Aldis, Damian Sandow, Tyrus, ADR, Big Cass just to give some variation to the product. Big guys mean a lot to the structure of wrestling matches.


----------



## Joe Gill

Its mind boggling that AEW has yet to have a match between to big dudes. Between Luchasaurus, Hagger and MJFs bodyguard they cant find a way to have 1 freakin match between them? And if they cant wrestle maybe bring in someone that Luchsaurus can beat? But nope.... they think marko stunt and japanese moustache lady are going to bring in viewers. 

AEW is blowing it right now. The last month has been pointless other than the Mox/Jericho teasers.


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

Joe Gill said:


> AEW has only been on tv for a few months and only do one 2 hour show per week on tv and do no house shows. If they are already doing filler shows thats a huge red flag. Bottom line is that last weeks show was a joke with a cringe ending. The show has been slipping the last 3-4 weeks. If they dont get their act together 400-500k will be the new norm in a few months.





optikk sucks said:


> absolutely
> 
> there are those people who blindly hate on AEW and then there are those who seem to be literally fans of everything, including putting on filler shows. blind haters are the worst out of the 2, but that's not saying much.
> 
> when NXT are putting on Cole vs Balor at the end of the year and AEW are putting on useless filler shows, cmon why?


God, y'all are such flakey whiny crybabies. Its like you guys never played an RPG or open world game, read a book, or watched something like GoT, any shonen anime, or even the goddamn WWE. _Anything_ that requires a big time commitment is always going to have occasional slower moments like say setting up future storyline threads, putting some focus on less established characters, or have the hero face off with a secondary antagonist in the meantime.

You guys really need to get out of this mindset that AEW has to go out of their way to win every single battle of the "Wednesday Night Wars" or they're permanently screwed, that they somehow don't know who their biggest stars are and don't have a strategic reason for not putting them on the occasional episode (seriously is Moxley not appearing for one week while Jericho is putting over one of the company's young guys seriously enough to kill the show for you?) or that a mediocre rating means that the show can never rebound from it (despite them already going through that 3 weeks ago).


----------



## Gh0stFace

It's important that they stay on their game plan and make minor adjustments as needed instead of being reactionary to NXT or they'll lose the current fan base too


----------



## RapShepard

They've lost a ton yeah, but it's hard to really blame them. This how to get casuals to watch question has gone unanswered since 2002


----------



## reyfan

rbl85 said:


> Cody is way more over and way more known than Omega.


I'll summarise Cody's promos in a nut shell.

I want a match with MJF, I'm rich, my dad is dead, please give me sympathy


----------



## rbl85

reyfan said:


> I'll summarise Cody's promos in a nut shell.
> 
> I want a match with MJF, I'm rich, my dad is dead, please give me sympathy


Why do you even watch ?

I never saw you post something a little bit positive about AEW, if you don't like then don't watch it.

Unless you're like some other people here who don't watch the show but still find a way to critic it ?


----------



## Joe Gill

Post-Modern Devil said:


> God, y'all are such flakey whiny crybabies. Its like you guys never played an RPG or open world game, read a book, or watched something like GoT, any shonen anime, or even the goddamn WWE. _Anything_ that requires a big time commitment is always going to have occasional slower moments like say setting up future storyline threads, putting some focus on less established characters, or have the hero face off with a secondary antagonist in the meantime.
> 
> You guys really need to get out of this mindset that AEW has to go out of their way to win every single battle of the "Wednesday Night Wars" or they're permanently screwed, that they somehow don't know who their biggest stars are and don't have a strategic reason for not putting them on the occasional episode (seriously is Moxley not appearing for one week while Jericho is putting over one of the company's young guys seriously enough to kill the show for you?) or that a mediocre rating means that the show can never rebound from it (despite them already going through that 3 weeks ago).


you dont get it....it wasnt just one filler episode...its been 3-4 consecutive episodes of meh. I remember watching the Young Bucks first few matches with AEW...I was blown away by some of the stuff they were doing...and was willing to ignore the lack of story telling, selling or realism. But now that i've seen them a dozen times Im getting kinda bored their overly choreographed spotfest. How many times exactly am I supposed to get excited by a wrestler diving through the ropes? or doing a random move with no selling? 500? 10000? 

AEW needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who are desperate for attention and start pushing a lot more story telling and realism or all the casuals will dissapear for good.


----------



## Tony1973

optikk sucks said:


> absolutely
> 
> there are those people who blindly hate on AEW and then there are those who seem to be literally fans of everything, including putting on filler shows. blind haters are the worst out of the 2, but that's not saying much.
> 
> when NXT are putting on Cole vs Balor at the end of the year and AEW are putting on useless filler shows, cmon why?


Wwe is fighting the last war and think winning every week in ratings will matter. If aew keeps tnt happy and gets a guaranteed contract that probably means theyve gotten enough people over, figured out how to get people to watch live and in that case aew will only get stronger as major wwe guys see the better presentation of characters and the lighter work load.

That WILL matter, if aew survives


----------



## Tony1973

Joe Gill said:


> you dont get it....it wasnt just one filler episode...its been 3-4 consecutive episodes of meh. I remember watching the Young Bucks first few matches with AEW...I was blown away by some of the stuff they were doing...and was willing to ignore the lack of story telling, selling or realism. But now that i've seen them a dozen times Im getting kinda bored their overly choreographed spotfest. How many times exactly am I supposed to get excited by a wrestler diving through the ropes? or doing a random move with no selling? 500? 10000?
> 
> AEW needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who are desperate for attention and start pushing a lot more story telling and realism or all the casuals will dissapear for good.


Then youre tired of just about all wrestling, because to say youre tired of 'the same moves' etc is EVERYBODY nowadays


----------



## Post-Modern Devil

Joe Gill said:


> you dont get it....it wasnt just one filler episode...its been 3-4 consecutive episodes of meh. I remember watching the Young Bucks first few matches with AEW...I was blown away by some of the stuff they were doing...and was willing to ignore the lack of story telling, selling or realism. But now that i've seen them a dozen times Im getting kinda bored their overly choreographed spotfest. How many times exactly am I supposed to get excited by a wrestler diving through the ropes? or doing a random move with no selling? 500? 10000?
> 
> AEW needs to stop listening to the geeks in the crowd who are desperate for attention and start pushing a lot more story telling and realism or all the casuals will dissapear for good.


I remember when all the anti-indy fans talked about how ring work didn't matter and it was all about megastars who can draw the casuals but suddenly _now_ what happens in the ring matters so much to casual's enjoyment on the product now that the indy guys so many internet fans spent so much time looking down their noses at are seeing the tiniest bit of mainstream success. 

Seriously, let the damn "cosplay" wrestlers and their fans have one national promotion to call their own without demanding they change everything to appeal to you or some hypothetical "casual" audience. If AEW ends up dying in the end then so be it but the Elite were the ones who convinced a billionare backer to put them as some of the key figures of his new promotion so they have to be doing _something_ right.


----------



## Sir Linko

Wrestling watchers in general are not interested in Wrestling as much as they used to be. Think about it. RAW just hit a number AEW was so close to hitting only 11 weeks ago. Holy shit.


----------



## kingfrass44

qntntgood said:


> Everyone needs to chill, wrestling has always struggled during holiday months.hell,raw just pulled it's lowest rating in years a 1.8 million viewers.wrestling is down in general,and no one is really blowing anyone out the water.


There is aew no this week
Your argument is not working


----------



## kingfrass44

Sir Linko said:


> Wrestling watchers in general are not interested in Wrestling as much as they used to be. Think about it. RAW just hit a number AEW was so close to hitting only 11 weeks ago. Holy shit.





Tony1973 said:


> Wwe is fighting the last war and think winning every week in ratings will matter. If aew keeps tnt happy and gets a guaranteed contract that probably means theyve gotten enough people over, figured out how to get people to watch live and in that case aew will only get stronger as major wwe guys see the better presentation of characters and the lighter work load.
> 
> That WILL matter, if aew survives


Where is the source
Just who said that Dave Meltzer
Dave Meltzer Lie It has a long history in Lies 
He previously lied about TNA and repeated the same with AEW


----------



## reyfan

rbl85 said:


> Why do you even watch ?


Waiting to see if they figure out wtf they are doing but so far the quality feels to be dropping by the week.


----------



## Sir Linko

kingfrass44 said:


> Where is the source
> Just who said that Dave Meltzer
> Dave Meltzer Lie It has a long history in rumors


Have no idea what you're asking. But you tagged me, so....


RAW hit 1.8 Mil and AEW debuted at 1.4 mil 11 weeks ago. Kind of nuts. 

NXT and AEW combined viewers and DVRers outmatch smackdown and raw weekly. If NXT was on a different day I wouldnt be surprised if both shows averaged 1 mil per week.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## qntntgood

kingfrass44 said:


> smark have IQ low
> There is aew no this week


I knew the shills would, and try to defend wwe.so I will make this clear wrestling during the month, of november and December wrestling usually experience a drop the ratings. The ratings usually go back up in January,during the royal rumble or other events.


----------



## imthegame19

So this is how TNT did in ratings last week FWIW.

Monday 12/16
Nothing in top 150

Tuesday 12/17
Grinch that Stole Christmas- 575,000

Wednesday 12/18
AEW Dynamite -683,000

Thursday- 12/19
NBA pregame-603,000
NBA game 1- 2.7 million
NBA game 2- 1.8 million
Inside the NBA-802,000

Friday
Nothing in top 150

Saturday
Nothing in top 150

Sunday
Nothing in top 150


It looks like NBA ratings are back up with Thursday night football done. But even in one of it's worst weeks ratings wise for AEW. It was still the most watched thing on TNT besides NBA coverage. This is exactly why TNT would have been happy if it did 500,000 viewers.


When they get back in 800,000-900,000 range(which I expect on some of January shows and most of February) still they have to be thrilled. Plus Meltzer has also bought up in the past. The attention it brings to BR live for ppvs and special shows. Is also factored in by what AEW brings to them.


----------



## NondescriptWWEfan

hard to make fun of their ratings when its xmas season and we know wrestling is always down then.

but I do think they need to step up the quality of the show to compete with nxt, they've been trailing for a while now


----------



## fabi1982

Sir Linko said:


> Have no idea what you're asking. But you tagged me, so....
> 
> 
> RAW hit 1.8 Mil and AEW debuted at 1.4 mil 11 weeks ago. Kind of nuts.
> 
> NXT and AEW combined viewers and DVRers outmatch smackdown and raw weekly. If NXT was on a different day I wouldnt be surprised if both shows averaged 1 mil per week.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Are there any real DVR numbers?


----------



## Sir Linko

fabi1982 said:


> Are there any real DVR numbers?


I can't seem to find any but they do impact the ratings depending on what you look at. There's a same-day DVR rating, +3 day rating, and a +7 day rating. 

Both AEW and NXT have really high DVR numbers which is frustrating because if they had their own days they would both be doing much nicer ratings. And AEW / NXT (whether people like it or not) are impacting Raw / Smackdown.

Having 4 hours of really good live wrestling each week makes the 5 shitty hours seem much more skippable. NXT / AEW numbers are not going up (we'll see during January) but they're being pretty consistent combined and RAW / Smackdown keep slipping little by little. 

But not to worry. It'll pop back up like it always does around RTWM season.


----------



## RapShepard

Sir Linko said:


> I can't seem to find any but they do impact the ratings depending on what you look at. There's a same-day DVR rating, +3 day rating, and a +7 day rating.
> 
> Both AEW and NXT have really high DVR numbers which is frustrating because if they had their own days they would both be doing much nicer ratings. And AEW / NXT (whether people like it or not) are impacting Raw / Smackdown.
> 
> Having 4 hours of really good live wrestling each week makes the 5 shitty hours seem much more skippable. NXT / AEW numbers are not going up (we'll see during January) but they're being pretty consistent combined and RAW / Smackdown keep slipping little by little.
> 
> But not to worry. It'll pop back up like it always does around RTWM season.


That's because Showbuzzdaily.com and https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/category/dvr-ratings/ haven't released DVR numbers in over a month. If numbers are being released idk where.


----------



## rbl85

Usually Raj Giri post the numbers on twitter.


----------



## fabi1982

Sir Linko said:


> I can't seem to find any but they do impact the ratings depending on what you look at. There's a same-day DVR rating, +3 day rating, and a +7 day rating.
> 
> Both AEW and NXT have really high DVR numbers which is frustrating because if they had their own days they would both be doing much nicer ratings. And AEW / NXT (whether people like it or not) are impacting Raw / Smackdown.
> 
> Having 4 hours of really good live wrestling each week makes the 5 shitty hours seem much more skippable. NXT / AEW numbers are not going up (we'll see during January) but they're being pretty consistent combined and RAW / Smackdown keep slipping little by little.
> 
> But not to worry. It'll pop back up like it always does around RTWM season.


But can you give any numbers of +3 or +7 etc? I am not able to find these, so for me until I see any evidence it is all speculation and just a poor attempt to make the numbers better.


----------



## Dark Emperor

fabi1982 said:


> But can you give any numbers of +3 or +7 etc? I am not able to find these, so for me until I see any evidence it is all speculation and just a poor attempt to make the numbers better.


No wrestling show has appeared in any recent DvR numbers released except Total Divas. They show it by actual numbers as well as % increase.

Meltzer was talking rubbish when he made that statement and never backed if up with facts or numbers. But a few AEW fans have taken it as gospel. 

Just like you, i am still waiting for these amazing numbers to show up.


----------



## rbl85

Dark Emperor said:


> No wrestling show has appeared in any recent DvR numbers released except Total Divas. They show it by actual numbers as well as % increase.
> 
> Meltzer was talking rubbish when he made that statement and never backed if up with facts or numbers. But a few AEW fans have taken it as gospel.
> 
> Just like you, i am still waiting for these amazing numbers to show up.


For the 546548948 times Meltzer is not the only one reporting it.

So much Fucking bad faith here.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> For the 546548948 times Meltzer is not the only one reporting it.
> 
> So much Fucking bad faith here.



It's same old people who are trying to debunk this stuff and they are all against the show/product. They dislike the show and want to push narrative that all these viewers gave up on the product and aren't coming back. 


They don't wanna admit that fans are skipping watching these shows live because they are filler shows. But are still watching and will likely be back when they start to build up matches for the ppv.

It's now up to them to get those viewers back to watch the show live and create more must see t.v. then they have the past 5 weeks or so.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> It's same old people who are trying to debunk this stuff and they are all against the show/product. They dislike the show and want to push narrative that all these viewers gave up on the product and aren't coming back.
> 
> 
> They don't wanna admit that fans are skipping watching these shows live because they are filler shows. But are still watching and will likely be back when they start to build up matches for the ppv.
> 
> It's now up to them to get those viewers back to watch the show live and create more must see t.v. then they have the past 5 weeks or so.


People DvR the show for different reasons (from what i saw on forum, twitter, facebook) :

Some people just can't watch it live because of their work.
Some people don't want to watch it alone so they prefer to wait until a other day to watch it with friends.
Some people just don't have the habit to watch wrestling every wednesday.
For some people the show does not have this type of "real" sport (NFL, NBA, MLB) feeling that kind of force you to watch it live


----------



## RainmakerV2

Post-Modern Devil said:


> I'm thoroughly convinced a lot of the smartasses here don't know what *filler episodes* are. They're obviously setting up January 1st as were shit starts getting back on track with the Inner Circle/Moxley confrontation, MJF's return promo, a women's championship match and the rematch between Cody and Darby. I'm pretty sure the folks at AEW didn't think Cody dicking around with Butcher & Blade, Moxley barely doing anything the last two episodes, and Jericho being in a sub-feud with the virtually unknown Jungle Boy would be massive ratings spikes and they're probably okay with that (especially given that NXT went hard into the last episode of the year with two title matches).
> 
> Quit acting like you're so much smarter than the people booking the show when you can't even pay attention to the basic fucking direction of the show.



A startup with this much backing and TV should not be doing filler shows 2 months into their deal. Thats bullshit and a lame excuse.


----------



## rbl85

AEW should be in California in May.

Meltzer said in his last newsletter that "AEW has taken a hold on a May date in Ontario, CA at the Toyota Arena"


----------



## Gh0stFace

Dark Emperor said:


> No wrestling show has appeared in any recent DvR numbers released except Total Divas. They show it by actual numbers as well as % increase.
> 
> Meltzer was talking rubbish when he made that statement and never backed if up with facts or numbers. But a few AEW fans have taken it as gospel.
> 
> Just like you, i am still waiting for these amazing numbers to show up.


Old noob. Lol


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> It's same old people who are trying to debunk this stuff and they are all against the show/product. They dislike the show and want to push narrative that all these viewers gave up on the product and aren't coming back.
> 
> 
> They don't wanna admit that fans are skipping watching these shows live because they are filler shows. But are still watching and will likely be back when they start to build up matches for the ppv.
> 
> It's now up to them to get those viewers back to watch the show live and create more must see t.v. then they have the past 5 weeks or so.


It's an easy argument that some don't want to admit that a new show lost viewers as new shows do and are attaching themselves to DVR ratings that nobody seems to be producing to avoid admitting that this new show has lost viewers.


----------



## RiverFenix

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1210373046667796480
I assume Schiavone is calling a bowl game and/or JR has it in his contract he can attend Oklahoma bowl game or something and thus Taz is needed for commentary.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> It's an easy argument that some don't want to admit that a new show lost viewers as new shows do and are attaching themselves to DVR ratings that nobody seems to be producing to avoid admitting that this new show has lost viewers.


New shows lose viewers yes. We saw it with Smackdown and NXT too. But DVR/on-demand numbers show they didn't lose anything close to ratings might success. That's also why they still did 957,000 the Dynamite after Full Gear.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> New shows lose viewers yes. We saw it with Smackdown and NXT too. But DVR/on-demand numbers show they didn't lose anything close to ratings might success. That's also why they still did 957,000 the Dynamite after Full Gear.


I don't think the ratings they're doing now are bad. But using DVR ratings that nobody has seemed to be able to produce evidence of just seems weird. The do list for DVR ratings and AEW nor NXT were showing up on them.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> I don't think the ratings they're doing now are bad. But using DVR ratings that nobody has seemed to be able to produce evidence of just seems weird. The do list for DVR ratings and AEW nor NXT were showing up on them.



You really think Meltzer making these numbers up? Or another dirt sheet guys are too. These are numbers you can get by paying for this data. It's not like they can just give people a link. It's no different then Meltzer reporting 10 minute rating break downs. Is that made up too? 


Just because theres been what two articles since AEW started. That has combined ratings plus AEW numbers and they aren't on there. Doesn't mean there not many other weeks they are on there. Again I know the narrative is Meltzer on AEW payroll nonsense. So anything he reports without proof has to be made up. Fine but again he's not the only guy reporting it. So haters need to accept that this is an actual thing.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> You really think Meltzer making these numbers up? Or another dirt sheet guys are too. These are numbers you can get by paying for this data. It's not like they can just give people a link. It's no different then Meltzer reporting 10 minute rating break downs. Is that made up too?
> 
> 
> Just because theres been what two articles since AEW started. That has combined ratings plus AEW numbers and they aren't on there. Doesn't mean there not many other weeks they are on there. Again I know the narrative is Meltzer on AEW payroll nonsense. So anything he reports without proof has to be made up. Fine but again he's not the only guy reporting it. So haters need to accept that this is an actual thing.


What I'm saying is they have sites that list the ratings. On these sites they also do charts for DVR ratings. AEW nor NXT show up in these charts. If they did somebody would've produced them by now along with the standard ratings chart we see every week. 

I think they're doing great whether they're killing it in DVR are not. But some of you are trying to latch on to these DVR numbers that nobody seems to be publishing because you're embarrassed to admit that despite being a good show they've lost a nice chunk of viewers. What they're doing is still top tv numbers so it's no reason to post about numbers nobody is producing.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> What I'm saying is they have sites that list the ratings. On these sites they also do charts for DVR ratings. AEW nor NXT show up in these charts. If they did somebody would've produced them by now along with the standard ratings chart we see every week.
> 
> I think they're doing great whether they're killing it in DVR are not. But some of you are trying to latch on to these DVR numbers that nobody seems to be publishing because you're embarrassed to admit that despite being a good show they've lost a nice chunk of viewers. What they're doing is still top tv numbers so it's no reason to post about numbers nobody is producing.


Again there's no sites with these updated numbers. Plus put it this way. You got NXT vs AEW going head to head. How realistic would it be if neither show ever was on there. I rest my case.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Again there's no sites with these updated numbers. Plus put it this way. You got NXT vs AEW going head to head. How realistic would it be if neither show ever was on there. I rest my case.


Even in the past charts AEW nor NXT are on them. AEW didn't appear in the top Live +3 or +7 ratings for their debut week, nor the week after that, or the week after that, or the week after that. It just sounds fishy to say they weren't in all those weeks. But suddenly got in them when they tied and had the across the board loss to NXT. 

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/10/live3-ratings-for-premiere-week.html


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Again there's no sites with these updated numbers. Plus put it this way. You got NXT vs AEW going head to head. How realistic would it be if neither show ever was on there. I rest my case.


Even in the past charts AEW nor NXT are on them. AEW didn't appear in the top Live +3 or +7 ratings for their debut week, nor the week after that, or the week after that, or the week after that. It just sounds fishy to say they weren't in all those weeks. But suddenly got in them when they tied and had the across the board loss to NXT. 

https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/10/live3-ratings-for-premiere-week.html

https://programminginsider.com/live...t-raw-gains-in-adults-18-49-of-all-telecasts/

These are live+ 3 day ratings for the the week of December 9th. AEW/NXT isn't on any list, notice South Park makes a list and they air the same night as AEW and NXT.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> Even in the past charts AEW nor NXT are on them. AEW didn't appear in the top Live +3 or +7 ratings for their debut week, nor the week after that, or the week after that, or the week after that. It just sounds fishy to say they weren't in all those weeks. But suddenly got in them when they tied and had the across the board loss to NXT.
> 
> https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/10/live3-ratings-for-premiere-week.html


Those numbers stop at 642,000 viewers increase tho. That week AEW and NXT both tied at 772,000 viewers. It's very possible there could be 300,000 to 500,000 increases for either show and doesn't get ranked. Which would make sense why Meltzer and others are reporting these numbers. But they don't get listed in top 50 with cable plus network tv.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Those numbers stop at 642,000 viewers increase tho. That week AEW and NXT both tied at 772,000 viewers. It's very possible there could be 300,000 to 500,000 increases for either show and doesn't get ranked. Which would make sense why Meltzer and others are reporting these numbers. But they don't get listed in top 50 with cable plus network tv.


No, it doesn't because if AEW did 500+k in DVR the week they tied with NXT they would've made the list for percentage gain which is on this site. 


https://programminginsider.com/category/ratings/final-nationals/live3-day/

https://programminginsider.com/category/ratings/final-nationals/live3-day/

AEW appeared on list for 3 day+ Thanksgiving week and that's it.


----------



## imthegame19

RainmakerV2 said:


> A startup with this much backing and TV should not be doing filler shows 2 months into their deal. Thats bullshit and a lame excuse.


They shouldn't be doing it but they are. Maybe it's ego of knowing they have long leash. Or thinking their fan base will be ok with it as long as the matches are good. 


I know they don't wanna be like WWE and blow through so many match ups on tv. They want to create big fight feel for the ppvs so people will actually pay 50 dollars for the ppv. Problem is if you got 3 plus months between ppv. It's gonna cause a lot of filler tv in between. 


That said I think they learned from all this for next time. I think we will see longer secondary feuds and only little teases towards bigger ones. Instead of these random 1-2 week feuds with Jericho and Jungle Boy or Scorpio Sky. Or Moxley vs Darby Allin or Janela and Cody vs Butcher/Blade stuff. 


If you are only gonna spend 1-2 weeks on a feud and already doing stuff for real feud. Well people know it's filler. If Jericho/Jungle Boy are gonna have a match. You need to spend at least 4 weeks building up Jungle Boy and the match itself for people to think it's worth watching live and care enough to root for Jungle Boy to win.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> No, it doesn't because if AEW did 500+k in DVR the week they tied with NXT they would've made the list for percentage gain which is on this site.
> 
> 
> https://programminginsider.com/category/ratings/final-nationals/live3-day/
> 
> https://programminginsider.com/category/ratings/final-nationals/live3-day/
> 
> AEW appeared on list for 3 day+ Thanksgiving week and that's it.


Thanksgiving show had the most to gain because that's their lowest rating. Looks like they increased over 300,000 viewers that week. So it's very possible that a lot of these other shows are still doing 150,000 to 250,000 in 3 day plus and making the list. Which makes most sense since so many credible people are reporting this. 

Not to mention it would also put them million people still watching the show every week. Which was pretty much their rating after the first weeks show. That would also back up Meltzer and other claims. That they didn't really lose many viewers just the ones watching them live. Which is why we get rating spiked to 890 or 957 in certain weeks still.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> What if they did 300,000 increase would they show up? Too many credible people are saying there's big increase for it not to be true.


Okay so December 4th (the week of the 3rd) AEW beat NXT 851K - 845 Meltzer said AEW did 539k in DVR that's a 63% increase which would have got them on a list they would've got on something for either percentage gain or total viewers gain sense they gained over 50% of their total viewers. 









Live+3 Weekly Ratings: ‘Real Housewives of Atlanta’ Ranks in Top Ten Raw Gainers Among Adults 18-49


What follows are the Live+Three Day results of the top telecasts for the week of December 2, 2019. You can also access daily Live+Three Day results via the Final Ratings archives on this site. Top 50 programs




programminginsider.com






__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ee0c46


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> Okay so December 4th (the week of the 3rd) AEW beat NXT 851K - 845 Meltzer said AEW did 539k in DVR that's a 63% increase which would have got them on a list they would've got on something for either percentage gain or total viewers gain sense they gained over 50% of their total viewers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live+3 Weekly Ratings: ‘Real Housewives of Atlanta’ Ranks in Top Ten Raw Gainers Among Adults 18-49
> 
> 
> What follows are the Live+Three Day results of the top telecasts for the week of December 2, 2019. You can also access daily Live+Three Day results via the Final Ratings archives on this site. Top 50 programs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> programminginsider.com


I wonder why the numbers differ from Meltzer numbers. Others who have reported the increases aren't giving exact numbers like that. Could it have something to do with on demand or TNT app? Since TNT puts show on there afterwards. People don't even have to dvr it.

I think the point is there is clear big increases with DVR tho. If Thanksgiving show increased over 300,000 viewers. Then there's a good chance a lot of these other shows are also having 150-250 increases and not making the list. Which would still put around million people watching the show each week and backs up with majority of dirt sheet writers are saying. Even if we can't find data that suggest Meltzer large increases.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> I wonder why the numbers differ from Meltzer numbers. Others who have reported the increases aren't giving exact numbers like that. Could it have something to do with on demand or TNT app? Since TNT puts show on there afterwards. People don't even have to dvr it.


I don't think ratings account for apps and streams. Regardless they're doing fine they're in the top 10 most weeks and the top 25 is their worst.


----------



## imthegame19

RapShepard said:


> I don't think ratings account for apps and streams. Regardless they're doing fine they're in the top 10 most weeks and the top 25 is their worst.


Im sure TNT has a lot of that data and factor in how many people are watching their programing each week. I agree tho and near million plus are still watching the show each week. AEW just needs to do better shows and get most of those people to watch them live again.


----------



## RapShepard

imthegame19 said:


> Im sure TNT has a lot of that data and factor in how many people are watching their programing each week. I agree tho and near million plus are still watching the show each week. AEW just needs to do better shows and get most of those people to watch them live again.


What to do to draw folk in is so hard to say, nobody in the business has done it since 2001. But as long as they can please their fan base now they should be fine. They really just need a must see storyline. They have good action. Just need that storyline that makes folk tune in.


----------



## The Wood

People DVR AEW so they can skip most of it and watch Jericho.


----------



## rbl85

You guys should read the last newsletter of Meltzer; after that come and tell us that he's biased towards AEW.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> For the 546548948 times Meltzer is not the only one reporting it.
> 
> So much Fucking bad faith here.


The please give me numbers form a reliable source and not just some Twitter account. Just proof that the mega high DVR numbers are true?!


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> People DVR AEW so they can skip most of it and watch Jericho.


Yeah for sure. And Sonny Kiss as well.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> The please give me numbers form a reliable source and not just some Twitter account. Just proof that the mega high DVR numbers are true?!


I'm not your dog, you want it ?

Then find it yourself….bruti….


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> I'm not your dog, you want it ?
> 
> Then find it yourself….bruti….


But as you and other said the numbers are true you should have evidence and dont have to look for it? I looked and couldnt find anything. So why not just accept that Melzer was lying? Why digging an even bigger hole?


----------



## The Wood

rbl85 said:


> You guys should read the last newsletter of Meltzer; after that come and tell us that he's biased towards AEW.


He’s absolutely biased toward AEW.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Even in the past charts AEW nor NXT are on them. AEW didn't appear in the top Live +3 or +7 ratings for their debut week, nor the week after that, or the week after that, or the week after that. It just sounds fishy to say they weren't in all those weeks. But suddenly got in them when they tied and had the across the board loss to NXT.
> 
> https://www.spoilertv.com/2019/10/live3-ratings-for-premiere-week.html


the issue is Metzler talks with too much hyperbole. They would only show up on there if they were one of the top DVR shows for the entire week. I showed what they would be some pages back if they went back up to 1.4 million each week and in almost every week available so far they would not have shown up in those charts. But Metzler said they are one of the best DVR shows on tv which is probably not true because he is just talking out of his ass with a lot of that stuff, but that doesn't mean they are not performing to the level that he reported, ie getting to 1.2-1.4 million total with DVR views. Honestly, it's in their best interest not to be heavy on DVR, the only good thing about it is that all those fans haven't disappeared which means they have a bigger audience for tickets, PPV, and merch. But that's already the case as well since people watch so many different ways today that's not cable or DVR, we just don't know the true number of people watching any of these shows really.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

The Wood said:


> He’s absolutely biased toward AEW.


Yeah he’s definitely signed to AEW. Why wouldn’t they want to sign a journalist that has barely any real outreach to the mainstream media?

and forget about all the times he has criticised the product. He’s biased towards AEW for sure.


----------



## Jonhern

fabi1982 said:


> But as you and other said the numbers are true you should have evidence and dont have to look for it? I looked and couldnt find anything. So why not just accept that Melzer was lying? Why digging an even bigger hole?


there wouldn't be any public evidence for it, these numbers are released for the entire week and usually a month or later in delay, but the people who pay for access like the networks get them much sooner. As someone else said, it's the same thing as the quarter hours, those are not publicly available numbers. 

Also, its funny how people are saying the DVR numbers are just being brought up to make AEW look better when the only ones who keep bringing them up since the first discussion about them are the WWE marks.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> But as you and other said the numbers are true you should have evidence and dont have to look for it? I looked and couldnt find anything. *So why not just accept that Melzer was lying?* Why digging an even bigger hole?


How many fucking times do i have to tell you that Meltzer is not the only one talking about it ? He wasn't even the first one talking about it.
Every fucking wrestling reporters are talking about it on their podcast.

If you want to know the numbers then go listen to those podcasts.


----------



## rbl85

Jonhern said:


> there wouldn't be any public evidence for it, these numbers are released for the entire week and usually a month or later in delay, but the people who pay for access like the networks get them much sooner. As someone else said, it's the same thing as the quarter hours, those are not publicly available numbers.
> 
> Also, its funny how people are saying the DVR numbers are just being brought up to make AEW look better when the only ones who keep bringing them up since the first discussion about them are the WWE marks.


It's just pure dishonesty.

Nobody ever said that those DvR numbers were a positif thing for AEW.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

rbl85 said:


> How many fucking times do i have to tell you that Meltzer is not the only one talking about it ? He wasn't even the first one talking about it.
> Every fucking wrestling reporters are talking about it on their podcast.
> 
> If you want to know the numbers then go listen to those podcasts.


They are all on AEWs payroll bro ?? there’s nothing positive about AEW at all. Bias and anti WWE. WWE do nothing wrong at all.


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> the issue is Metzler talks with too much hyperbole. They would only show up on there if they were one of the top DVR shows for the entire week. I showed what they would be some pages back if they went back up to 1.4 million each week and in almost every week available so far they would not have shown up in those charts. But Metzler said they are one of the best DVR shows on tv which is probably not true because he is just talking out of his ass with a lot of that stuff, but that doesn't mean they are not performing to the level that he reported, ie getting to 1.2-1.4 million total with DVR views. Honestly, it's in their best interest not to be heavy on DVR, the only good thing about it is that all those fans haven't disappeared which means they have a bigger audience for tickets, PPV, and merch. But that's already the case as well since people watch so many different ways today that's not cable or DVR, we just don't know the true number of people watching any of these shows really.


I don't think they need to be a big show on DVR. But I posted the program insider link because they show more charts. If AEW was consistently doing enough in DVR to where they still in the 1.2-1.4 million range they'd be getting on some charts because they'd be gaining a high percentage of followers back. The only chart the actually made was for Thanksgiving were they went from a .6 to a .9 with DVR. 

It definitely sounds like a hyperbole thing, which doesn't need to be because it's not doing bad. I just think it's weird some are putting so much faith in these DVR ratings. There's no evidence AEW is a top DVR show from the actual DVR ratings that get produced. While the folk that flat out just hate AEW are using the fall off to hate on them. I think some AEW fans are banking too much on this currently unverifiable data to convince themselves that nobody stopped watching.


----------



## rbl85

If you don't trust Meltzer with the DVR numbers then you should not trust him with the quarter numbers.


----------



## imthegame19

rbl85 said:


> How many fucking times do i have to tell you that Meltzer is not the only one talking about it ? He wasn't even the first one talking about it.
> Every fucking wrestling reporters are talking about it on their podcast.
> 
> If you want to know the numbers then go listen to those podcasts.


The trolls around here are either dumb or don't listen. Or just trolling. I wish the mods would start warning these people. I'm gonna start reporting these guys going forward and if nothing done im gonna stop coming here as much.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> If you don't trust Meltzer with the DVR numbers then you should not trust him with the quarter numbers.


One has official releases that don't match up to Meltzer's sayings and the other doesn't. If they were gaining 40%+ to 60%+ of their audience back every week then they'd have appeared on one of the numerous live+ ratings charts.


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> One has official releases that don't match up to* Meltzer's sayings* and the other doesn't. If they were gaining 40%+ to 60%+ of their audience back every week then they'd have appeared on one of the numerous live+ ratings charts.


You do it on purpose ?


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> You do it on purpose ?


Do what on purpose?


----------



## rbl85

RapShepard said:


> Do what on purpose?


It's not "Meltzer sayings"


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> I don't think they need to be a big show on DVR. But I posted the program insider link because they show more charts. If AEW was consistently doing enough in DVR to where they still in the 1.2-1.4 million range they'd be getting on some charts because they'd be gaining a high percentage of followers back. The only chart the actually made was for Thanksgiving were they went from a .6 to a .9 with DVR.
> 
> It definitely sounds like a hyperbole thing, which doesn't need to be because it's not doing bad. I just think it's weird some are putting so much faith in these DVR ratings. There's no evidence AEW is a top DVR show from the actual DVR ratings that get produced. While the folk that flat out just hate AEW are using the fall off to hate on them. I think some AEW fans are banking too much on this currently unverifiable data to convince themselves that nobody stopped watching.


Im not sure what you are talking about, at that link I don't see them on any chart, and if they went from a .6 to a .9 during thanksgiving week that means they beat RAW that week which is the only time WWE shows up on the charts, which is for some odd reason listed as being on fox, where it went from .63 to .82 with DVR. but like I said if they are going up to over a million they wouldn't show up on these charts since the increase wouldn't be that big like other shows on TV. And again, one person brought it up, we talked about it and I think most agreed the numbers didn't mean much, the only ones who keep bringing up DVR seems to be the people that just like to hate on everything Dave and AEW.


----------



## RapShepard

rbl85 said:


> It's not "Meltzer sayings"


I mean he reported did he not? And he's the one who people are referencing and attaching a name to.


Jonhern said:


> Im not sure what you are talking about, at that link I don't see them on any chart, and if they went from a .6 to a .9 during thanksgiving week that means they beat RAW that week which is the only time WWE shows up on the charts, which is for some odd reason listed as being on fox, where it went from .63 to .82 with DVR. but like I said if they are going up to over a million they wouldn't show up on these charts since the increase wouldn't be that big like other shows on TV. And again, one person brought it up, we talked about it and I think most agreed the numbers didn't mean much, the only ones who keep bringing up DVR seems to be the people that just like to hate on everything Dave and AEW.


The site below have charts that include percentage gain as well. The 1st link is for weeks of live 3+ and the 2nd is for live 7+. AEW only showed up top 50 for live 3+ the week of Thanksgiving. If they were gaining such a high percentage through DVR weekly they'd show up more than once. 









Live+3 Weekly Ratings: ‘Real Housewives of Atlanta’ Ranks in Top Ten Raw Gainers Among Adults 18-49


What follows are the Live+Three Day results of the top telecasts for the week of December 2, 2019. You can also access daily Live+Three Day results via the Final Ratings archives on this site. Top 50 programs




programminginsider.com














Live+7 Weekly Ratings: ‘Madam Secretary’ Series Finale Ranks in Top Ten Among Raw Viewer Gains


What follows are the Live+Seven Day results of the top telecasts for the week of December 2, 2019. You can also access daily Live+Seven Day results via the Final Ratings archives on this site. Top 50 programs




programminginsider.com






As far as bringing it up, it was the folk trolling. It was folk saying that "well AEW hasn't lost viewers they're just not live anymore" that brought DVR into discussion. They just don't like that the folk that are trolling or being ridiculously hard on AEW are attacking that DVR point for data and they can't produce.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> I mean he reported did he not? And he's the one who people are referencing and attaching a name to. The site below have charts that include percentage gain as well. The 1st link is for weeks of live 3+ and the 2nd is for live 7+. AEW only showed up top 50 for live 3+ the week of Thanksgiving. If they were gaining such a high percentage through DVR weekly they'd show up more than once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live+3 Weekly Ratings: ‘Real Housewives of Atlanta’ Ranks in Top Ten Raw Gainers Among Adults 18-49
> 
> 
> What follows are the Live+Three Day results of the top telecasts for the week of December 2, 2019. You can also access daily Live+Three Day results via the Final Ratings archives on this site. Top 50 programs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> programminginsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Live+7 Weekly Ratings: ‘Madam Secretary’ Series Finale Ranks in Top Ten Among Raw Viewer Gains
> 
> 
> What follows are the Live+Seven Day results of the top telecasts for the week of December 2, 2019. You can also access daily Live+Seven Day results via the Final Ratings archives on this site. Top 50 programs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> programminginsider.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as bringing it up, it was the folk trolling. It was folk saying that "well AEW hasn't lost viewers they're just not live anymore" that brought DVR into discussion. They just don't like that the folk that are trolling or being ridiculously hard on AEW are attacking that DVR point for data and they can't produce.


Thank you for the links. But yeah, as I said before most weeks they wouldn't show up on those charts, since the gains are not enough to put them on there, by raw numbers or percentage gains. They just happened to be Thanksgiving week probably because everything else was down or there weren't a lot of new shows on. Most weeks they would be below 50% increase if what Dave is reporting is accurate. they only post the top50 for the whole week for broadcast and cable, which is why Dave saying they are one of the best performing shows on cable is likely just hyperbole which is something commentators like him do all the time, by his measure it might be true but by someone else's measure its not. Anyway, if you calculate the percentage increase if there were to go up to 1.2-1.4million with DVR they would be below the threshold each week looking at these charts. the latest numbers for the week of December 9 they should be at the bottom of the list if they went up to 1.2million, but this again, this is us guessing how much it went up, if it was a little less of an increase, say 1.1 million, they would not be on the list. I think Dave has his faults with how he analyzes some of this data, but I don't think he is making shit up. If people really think he is making this up then why do they not question the quarter-hour ratings he reports? Or the attendance he reports?


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> Thank you for the links. But yeah, as I said before most weeks they wouldn't show up on those charts, since the gains are not enough to put them on there, by raw numbers or percentage gains. They just happened to be Thanksgiving week probably because everything else was down or there weren't a lot of new shows on. Most weeks they would be below 50% increase if what Dave is reporting is accurate. they only post the top50 for the whole week for broadcast and cable, which is why Dave saying they are one of the best performing shows on cable is likely just hyperbole which is something commentators like him do all the time, by his measure it might be true but by someone else's measure its not. Anyway, if you calculate the percentage increase if there were to go up to 1.2-1.4million with DVR they would be below the threshold each week looking at these charts. the latest numbers for the week of December 9 they should be at the bottom of the list if they went up to 1.2million, but this again, this is us guessing how much it went up, if it was a little less of an increase, say 1.1 million, they would not be on the list. I think Dave has his faults with how he analyzes some of this data, but I don't think he is making shit up. If people really think he is making this up then why do they not question the quarter-hour ratings he reports? Or the attendance he reports?


For instance the week December second AEW did 851k and they did 539k in DVR which was an over 63% increase that was enough to make list for percentage gain if true for that week.


----------



## The Wood

optikk sucks said:


> Yeah he’s definitely signed to AEW. Why wouldn’t they want to sign a journalist that has barely any real outreach to the mainstream media?
> 
> and forget about all the times he has criticised the product. He’s biased towards AEW for sure.


Yes, because being biased towards AEW means he is on the payroll. Some AEW diehards make themselves look ridiculous by not accepting things like Meltzer bending over backwards to make them look great unless they do something _really_ fucking stupid. Meltzer and Alvarez were just trying to sweep The Dark Order stuff under the rug. 



rbl85 said:


> How many fucking times do i have to tell you that Meltzer is not the only one talking about it ? He wasn't even the first one talking about it.
> Every fucking wrestling reporters are talking about it on their podcast.
> 
> If you want to know the numbers then go listen to those podcasts.


So many dirt sites, etc. get their shit from Meltzer and just claim the samebsource



rbl85 said:


> It's just pure dishonesty.
> 
> Nobody ever said that those DvR numbers were a positif thing for AEW.


Yes they do. In the same breath as people will tell you that AEW needs live viewers, they’ll tell you that the 



optikk sucks said:


> They are all on AEWs payroll bro ?? there’s nothing positive about AEW at all. Bias and anti WWE. WWE do nothing wrong at all.


Who is talking about WWE? Why do AEW diehards immediately go to that extreme like it makes sense? If you don’t like the new Star Wars it must be because you like the Marvel Cinematic 



rbl85 said:


> If you don't trust Meltzer with the DVR numbers then you should not trust him with the quarter numbers.


You already got called out by this by Rap (who is doing some tremendous work), but one is a number with accountability and the other is one he can exaggerate and pull from his ass in order to push a narrative. He’s not going to lie about the ratings because people can see them and won’t have to think to bust his chops avoit



imthegame19 said:


> The trolls around here are either dumb or don't listen. Or just trolling. I wish the mods would start warning these people. I'm gonna start reporting these guys going forward and if nothing done im gonna stop coming here as much.


Or can we start calling the people who call people trolls for making valid points out on their attempts to obstruct conversation?


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> For instance the week December second AEW did 851k and they did 539k in DVR which was an over 63% increase that was enough to make list for percentage gain if true for that week.


If they were close to 1.4million, if they were more around 1.1 million, then they wouldn't be, Dave said 1.2-1.4 and he's likely generalizing with those numbers. Plus he said that before the numbers for that week would have even been available.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> For instance the week December second AEW did 851k and they did 539k in DVR which was an over 63% increase that was enough to make list for percentage gain if true for that week.


Wait, are you saying dave said they went up that much? Where are you getting those numbers?


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> If they were close to 1.4million, if they were more around 1.1 million, then they wouldn't be, Dave said 1.2-1.4 and he's likely generalizing with those numbers. Plus he said that before the numbers for that week would have even been available.





Jonhern said:


> Wait, are you saying dave said they went up that much? Where are you getting those numbers?


Got it from here 


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ee0c46



http://imgur.com/0oXtWjW


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> Wait, are you saying dave said they went up that much? Where are you getting those numbers?


For whatever reason those links aren't working

Search Reddit for

Dave Meltzer explains how the ratings haven't changed much since AEW or NXTs ratings October 2nd.

Then click the picture in the opening post.


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> Got it from here
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/ee0c46
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/0oXtWjW


Thanks, hes talking +7 there and I was only looking at the +3, which in reality are the only ones that matter even a little since it kind of gives an idea of what the C3 ratings would be which only count if someone watched the commercials. 
But if you look at that link you provided it doesn't disprove him, they are not listing % gains in the +7 numbers, just raw gains, and the 539k wouldn't put them in the top 50, the lowest being in the 800k mark. So again, I think he is likely exaggerating when he says its a top performer on DVR for cable, but the numbers he is reporting I don't see any reason to doubt them.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Yes, because being biased towards AEW means he is on the payroll. Some AEW diehards make themselves look ridiculous by not accepting things like Meltzer bending over backwards to make them look great unless they do something _really_ fucking stupid. Meltzer and Alvarez were just trying to sweep The Dark Order stuff under the rug.
> 
> 
> 
> So many dirt sites, etc. get their shit from Meltzer and just claim the samebsource
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they do. In the same breath as people will tell you that AEW needs live viewers, they’ll tell you that the
> 
> 
> 
> Who is talking about WWE? Why do AEW diehards immediately go to that extreme like it makes sense? If you don’t like the new Star Wars it must be because you like the Marvel Cinematic
> 
> 
> 
> You already got called out by this by Rap (who is doing some tremendous work), but one is a number with accountability and the other is one he can exaggerate and pull from his ass in order to push a narrative. He’s not going to lie about the ratings because people can see them and won’t have to think to bust his chops avoit
> 
> 
> 
> Or can we start calling the people who call people trolls for making valid points out on their attempts to obstruct conversation?


Your points are nowhere near valid anymore. Your negative agenda clouds your thinking and comments. It's sad that you can't see this....


----------



## RapShepard

Jonhern said:


> Thanks, hes talking +7 there and I was only looking at the +3, which in reality are the only ones that matter even a little since it kind of gives an idea of what the C3 ratings would be which only count if someone watched the commercials.
> But if you look at that link you provided it doesn't disprove him, they are not listing % gains in the +7 numbers, just raw gains, and the 539k wouldn't put them in the top 50, the lowest being in the 800k mark. So again, I think he is likely exaggerating when he says its a top performer on DVR for cable, but the numbers he is reporting I don't see any reason to doubt them.


I feel it it, for me it just seems like it should be in the +3 for percentage gains unless they just had a shit ton of gains after day 4. Who knows though. But I feel you it's probably some hyperbole


----------



## Jonhern

RapShepard said:


> I feel it it, for me it just seems like it should be in the +3 for percentage gains unless they just had a shit ton of gains after day 4. Who knows though. But I feel you it's probably some hyperbole


If you play around with the numbers it makes sense, if 75% of the increase came in the first 3 days they would have a 47% increase for that 12/4 show, the lowest for that week was 48%, but there could be 5-20 shows that fall into the 47-48% range. If they had 76% of the increase in the first 3 days they would be just above the modern family which was last on the list. So 75% and under they wouldn't be on the list, 76% and over they would. which seems believable to me that 3/4s would watch in the first 3 days and the rest watched after that.


----------



## fabi1982

Jonhern said:


> there wouldn't be any public evidence for it, these numbers are released for the entire week and usually a month or later in delay, but the people who pay for access like the networks get them much sooner. As someone else said, it's the same thing as the quarter hours, those are not publicly available numbers.
> 
> Also, its funny how people are saying the DVR numbers are just being brought up to make AEW look better when the only ones who keep bringing them up since the first discussion about them are the WWE marks.


I‘m pretty sure it was brought up by one of the AEW marks to make sure the fairytale continues. I honestly dont care about DVR ratings, so should TNT as they dont bring any money, but when someone comes here and constantly brings up „...but DVR ratings“ I want to see proof and proof is not some „journalists“ claiming these numbers. Like I said all the DVR numbers dont show AEW, so this is the reality I see, if you see a different reality then good for you.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> How many fucking times do i have to tell you that Meltzer is not the only one talking about it ? He wasn't even the first one talking about it.
> Every fucking wrestling reporters are talking about it on their podcast.
> 
> If you want to know the numbers then go listen to those podcasts.


Why so aggressive my little french mark? And just because people say something on a podcast it must be true? This is like me claiming some shit and put it on a podcast, then it must be true?


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Why so aggressive my little french mark? And just because people say something on a podcast it must be true? This is like me claiming some shit and put it on a podcast, then it must be true?


Because i'm tired of repeating myself on this subject.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Because i'm tired of repeating myself on this subject.


Then again you just have no evidence and this was always my question. No evidence basically means you are not correct. So take the L and next time just bring up the DVR stuff (because I remember you have been the first one posting it in here) when you have proof besides „everyone is tweeting about it“.


----------



## Jonhern

rbl85 said:


> Because i'm tired of repeating myself on this subject.


just block him not worth the time.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> Then again you just have no evidence and this was always my question. No evidence basically means you are not correct. So take the L and next time just bring up the DVR stuff (because I remember you have been the first one posting it in here) when you have proof besides „everyone is tweeting about it“.


Do you have some evidence that all the wrestling reporters are wrong ?


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Do you have some evidence that all the wrestling reporters are wrong ?


I dont have to, when someone claims numbers (not just on wrestling) it has to be shown evidence, no evidence no believability. It is that easy.


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> I dont have to, when someone claims numbers (not just on wrestling) it has to be shown evidence, no evidence no believability. It is that easy.


Yes you have to.

When you claim that multiple people are wrong then you have to prove that those people are wrong.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Yes you have to.
> 
> When you claim that multiple people are wrong then you have to prove that those people are wrong.


So you say when multiple people are telling Melzers „truth“ I have to believe them? So basically when your car mechanic tells you the repair is 5.000€ you dont want to see evidence and just pay?


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> So you say when multiple people are telling Melzers „truth“ I have to believe them? So basically when your car mechanic tells you the repair is 5.000€ you dont want to see evidence and just pay?


Metlzer is not the first wrestling reporter who talked about it.


----------



## fabi1982

rbl85 said:


> Metlzer is not the first wrestling reporter who talked about it.


You just dont want to understand my point really. Dont care who posted this on Twitter. But I am the bigger man and call you the winner and AEW has nothing to worry because still 1.4m people are watching the show, good on them


----------



## rbl85

fabi1982 said:


> You just dont want to understand my point really. Dont care who posted this on Twitter. But I am the bigger man and call you the winner and AEW has nothing to worry because still 1.4m people are watching the show, good on them


Nobody said that.


----------



## Sir Linko

Holy shit lol this discussion has gotten very carried away.


I don't think I quoted "DVR Numbers" as part of the bible. I heard it from Meltzer and saw it all over wrestling websites and whatnot. I thought it was interesting and probably made a ton of sense considering both NXT and AEW debuted at more than a Million and then fell. Now it seems if 1 falls, the other goes up and vice versa. There's no real growth or decline in both shows.

DVR numbers wouldn't really mean much outside of at least people are watching the product - that's what matters in the end. And considering the cord cutting people, it wouldn't surprise me if AEW and NXT did 5 - 600k DVR numbers. 

Then taking into slight consideration of the watch wrestling websites which is something I and many others did back in 2011 in a fan discord that focused on illegal ways to view wrestling content. 

I wouldn't be surprised if NXT and AEW were both hovering around 2 mil respectively in a 7 day span over all content. 

In the end - outside of drastically low numbers, who really gives a fuck. Either you like AEW / NXT or you don't. And the numbers don't support the claim that one is better than the other if it depends on the viewer. 

The only thing I was surprised / almost worried about was RAW hitting a number both NXT and AEW were at a few months ago. Yes it was a taped episode of RAW on the day before Christmas Eve but RAW has been having a downward trend for a long time and whoever WANTS WWE to fail is fucking stupid.


----------



## BigCy

After the evidence pointed out I think we can safely say that the DVR numbers in general are probably right around 100-200k if I'm understanding the metrics correctly. Not a horrible number but not great either. If we take their curent floating average of about 700-750k and add the average DVR of say about 150k, we can say about 850k-900k are watching the product on a consistent basis. 

This will be less accurate but let's say they had about 250k for DVR on their first episode. Add the 1.4 rating they got and you had essentially about 1.650mil that gave the product a shot. So in total AEW lost about 45% of their starting audience. 

Not saying it's over as I think it's still wa to early to say that, but as I stated elsewhere...2020 HAS to be a good year for them. I think they can stay where they are at safely but they can't lose much more without incurring risk.

Inb4 You on that Steiner math fam?


----------



## rbl85

BigCy said:


> *After the evidence pointed out I think we can safely say that the DVR numbers in general are probably right around 100-200k if I'm understanding the metrics correctly. * Not a horrible number but not great either. If we take their curent floating average of about 700-750k and add the average DVR of say about 150k, we can say about 850k-900k are watching the product on a consistent basis.
> 
> This will be less accurate but let's say they had about 250k for DVR on their first episode. Add the 1.4 rating they got and you had essentially about 1.650mil that gave the product a shot. So in total AEW lost about 45% of their starting audience.
> 
> Not saying it's over as I think it's still wa to early to say that, but as I stated elsewhere...2020 HAS to be a good year for them. I think they can stay where they are at safely but they can't lose much more without incurring risk.
> 
> Inb4 You on that Steiner math fam?


What evidence ?


----------



## imthegame19

This match will be an intense competition as @jonmoxley takes on @trentylocks next week in Jacksonville, FL, for #AEWDynamite.

Get your tickets at https://t.co/5WsWwyDkwZ or watch #AEW Dynamite LIVE every Wednesday on @TNTDrama 8e/7c. #AEWonTNT @AEWonTNT https://t.co/2wCu1ldsml


Moxley vs Trent added to the show. That should be a fun match. Looks like the show is really gonna focus on its stars this week. You got

1.Cody vs Darby Allin
2.Omega&Young Bucks vs Pac&Lucha Bros
3.Riho vs Nyla Rose vs Britt Baker vs Shida
4.MJF segment that will also likely feature Cody
5.Jericho segment that will also likely feature Moxley. 


I'm sure they will add couple more filler matches(which will probably won't be very long). But seems like there making this show more must see then they have the last few weeks.


----------



## RainmakerV2

Anybody subscribe to F4Ws free YouTube? As soon as Alvarez announced the numbers he pivoted right towards IMPEACHMENT THIS DOESNT MATTER...(Even though NXTs 50 plus is the main category that watches news lol) and then they put out a video on Smackdowns bad ratings (which they havent mentioned on their free channel in like 2 months.) Just a coincidence obviously. No bias.


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Your points are nowhere near valid anymore. Your negative agenda clouds your thinking and comments. It's sad that you can't see this....


Yes they are. I have no agenda. Thanks for playing.

Funny how Meltzer talked about a “narrative,” and now all the school kids can’t stop talking sbout



rbl85 said:


> Do you have some evidence that all the wrestling reporters are wrong ?


That’s not how evidence works.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Yes they are. I have no agenda. Thanks for playing.
> 
> Funny how Meltzer talked about a “narrative,” and now all the school kids can’t stop talking sbout
> 
> 
> 
> That’s not how evidence works.


Yes you are so open minded about AEW. Your negative views or opinions on the product doesn't cloud your judgement or reality at all. You are totally non bias haha. 

Anyways it's clear you are rooting for the company as is to fail now. You say same negative crap and overreact with doom and gloom scenarios. Nice try though but nobody around here is stupid.


----------



## BigCy

imthegame19 said:


> This match will be an intense competition as @jonmoxley takes on @trentylocks next week in Jacksonville, FL, for #AEWDynamite.
> 
> Get your tickets at https://t.co/5WsWwyDkwZ or watch #AEW Dynamite LIVE every Wednesday on @TNTDrama 8e/7c. #AEWonTNT @AEWonTNT https://t.co/2wCu1ldsml
> 
> 
> Moxley vs Trent added to the show. That should be a fun match. Looks like the show is really gonna focus on its stars this week. You got
> 
> 1.Cody vs Darby Allin
> 2.Omega&Young Bucks vs Pac&Lucha Bros
> 3.Riho vs Nyla Rose vs Britt Baker vs Shida
> 4.MJF segment that will also likely feature Cody
> 5.Jericho segment that will also likely feature Moxley.
> 
> 
> I'm sure they will add couple more filler matches(which will probably won't be very long). But seems like there making this show more must see then they have the last few weeks.


I've been saying for awhile they need to get Trent in singles midcard and make Chuck a comedy jobber like Avalon and Nakazawa. That could be a great match. The 6-Man sounds great on paper hopefully that delivers. The rest sounds meh to decent. 

I think as long as they start to structure Dynamite and DARK where they put their money matches and segments on Dynamite and leave filler matches and segments and the Avalons and Nakazawa's, etc. to DARK to take jobs I think they will see a slight ratings boost. 

I still think they should have a "Super Dynamite" episode that is basically a PPV quality episode inbetween each of their actual PPV's. That way they can build up to something in a shorter time and have some stories end inbetween and not have so much "filler" episodes before the big PPV's.


----------



## imthegame19

BigCy said:


> I've been saying for awhile they need to get Trent in singles midcard and make Chuck a comedy jobber like Avalon and Nakazawa. That could be a great match. The 6-Man sounds great on paper hopefully that delivers. The rest sounds meh to decent.
> 
> I think as long as they start to structure Dynamite and DARK where they put their money matches and segments on Dynamite and leave filler matches and segments and the Avalons and Nakazawa's, etc. to DARK to take jobs I think they will see a slight ratings boost.
> 
> I still think they should have a "Super Dynamite" episode that is basically a PPV quality episode inbetween each of their actual PPV's. That way they can build up to something in a shorter time and have some stories end inbetween and not have so much "filler" episodes before the big PPV's.


Yeah I think that's the plan for Trent down the road. The fact that he's had win over Pentagon jr, had competitive with with Rey and Pac in defeat. Now I expect this to be competitive match with Moxley as well. I feel all this is showcasing him as singles guy.


So when he breaks away from Chuck and Orange Cassidy. He's already established as a guy who's done well in singles. So if they wanna push him even beyond midcard a bit. It won't feel like such a big shock.


As for creating super Dynamites that's exactly what they have to do in the future and I think they will. Even Meltzer has said they need to do this during down time between the ppv.


For example you could have Moxley feud with a guy like Trent for 4 or 5 weeks. During that feud you can have Trent beat Pentagon jr and maybe get a clean win over Spears or Sabian. Then with having Chuck and Orange Cassidy help Trent. So if you do that and build up a match for 4 or 5 weeks. People might think Trent could have a chance vs Moxley if Chuck and Orange Cassidy cheat etc.


Unfortunately the time to do something like that is gone. After this weeks show they got 8 weeks to the ppv. So they are gonna spend time now doing the feuds and building up the real match ups for the ppv. That is something they should have done in November and December and did payoff Super Dynamite this week or Januaray 15th and 22nd Bash at the Beach shows(which I'm sure they will have some big matches on).


But post Revolution I think we will see some 4 or 5 week feuds with top guys and mid card guys. That will lead to payoff matches on big Dynamite or two. Remember these guys are booking t.v. for first time. I think they realized you can't have so many filler shows and random match ups with no heat or stakes to them. All thats doing is telling the audience its not must see tv. So they are watching it on dvr or on demand later. I'm confident they will learn from that and do better of job booking in the future.


----------



## imthegame19

imthegame19 said:


> This match will be an intense competition as @jonmoxley takes on @trentylocks next week in Jacksonville, FL, for #AEWDynamite.
> 
> Get your tickets at https://t.co/5WsWwyDkwZ or watch #AEW Dynamite LIVE every Wednesday on @TNTDrama 8e/7c. #AEWonTNT @AEWonTNT https://t.co/2wCu1ldsml
> 
> 
> Moxley vs Trent added to the show. That should be a fun match. Looks like the show is really gonna focus on its stars this week. You got
> 
> 1.Cody vs Darby Allin
> 2.Omega&Young Bucks vs Pac&Lucha Bros
> 3.Riho vs Nyla Rose vs Britt Baker vs Shida
> 4.MJF segment that will also likely feature Cody
> 5.Jericho segment that will also likely feature Moxley.
> 
> 
> I'm sure they will add couple more filler matches(which will probably won't be very long). But seems like there making this show more must see then they have the last few weeks.


Dustin Rhodes vs Sammy Guevara also added to Dynamite. Another good match added to the show.


----------



## BigCy

imthegame19 said:


> Dustin Rhodes vs Sammy Guevara also added to Dynamite. Another good match added to the show.


That should be decent. I think Dustin will put Sammy over so they can start to build these younger guys. I must say I have been impressed with old Dustin, dude can still get it done.


----------



## imthegame19

BigCy said:


> That should be decent. I think Dustin will put Sammy over so they can start to build these younger guys. I must say I have been impressed with old Dustin, dude can still get it done.


Yeah Dustin has been underused. This is his first singles match since Double Or Nothing. He could be a big asset feuding with younger midcard talent. Normally I would think Sammy would win here. But it all depends on where they are going next. If they are planning on doing Dustin vs Hager at say Bash at Beach or Revolution.


Then they will probably have Dustin win this and Hager attack him after the match. If they don't plan to do Hager vs Dustin. Then they will probably have Dustin put Sammy over here.


----------



## BigCy

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah Dustin has been underused. This is his first singles match since Double Or Nothing. He could be a big asset feuding with younger midcard talent. Normally I would think Sammy would win here. But it all depends on where they are going next. If they are planning on doing Dustin vs Hager at say Bash at Beach or Revolution.
> 
> 
> Then they will probably have Dustin win this and Hager attack him after the match. If they don't plan to do Hager vs Dustin. Then they will probably have Dustin put Sammy over here.


Good point. They need to do something with Hager. I think Hager attacks Dustin allowing Sammy to get the cheap win and that sets up Dustin vs Hager.


----------



## imthegame19

BigCy said:


> Good point. They need to do something with Hager. I think Hager attacks Dustin allowing Sammy to get the cheap win and that sets up Dustin vs Hager.


Yeah they been teasing the match. With Dustin calling him out for breaking his arm etc. Unless there's some type of thing in Hager MMA contract that prevents him wrestling until certain date. There's no reason why they shouldn't do Hager/Dustin in the next 8 weeks or so.


----------



## Oracle

I like Trent but man Mox should just squash him for storyline purposes. 

AEW has a thing where everyone where to get a little bit of offence in, its a bad look.


----------



## RiverFenix

Trent is so friggin bland and so lacking in creativity he never came up with a new ring name in the many years since he left WWE. Sorry, but there is nothing there with him and any push is a waste of time.


----------



## RapShepard

DetroitRiverPhx said:


> Trent is so friggin bland and so lacking in creativity he never came up with a new ring name in the many years since he left WWE. Sorry, but there is nothing there with him and any push is a waste of time.


Trent is about to be the next guy hardcore fans are convinced can be a "serious singles guy, at least a midcard champion"


----------



## TKO Wrestling

Yeah who wants a super talented, 6’2”, 32 year old worker with NJPW experience when you can have more Indy guys? Not!!! Trent is an amazing asset, he has Alex Wright level talent/potential.


----------



## RapShepard

TKO Wrestling said:


> Yeah who wants a super talented, 6’2”, 32 year old worker with NJPW experience when you can have more Indy guys? Not!!! Trent is an amazing asset, he has Alex Wright level talent/potential.


Yes the legendary Alex Wright what a comparison [emoji23][emoji23]. Like most wrestlers he's just okay, but there always has to be some hot take breakout guy for the hardcore fans to get behind. Just like I said with Spears, there's a reason folk hyping Trent aren't actually pointing out any real greatness of Trent.


----------



## imthegame19

Oracle said:


> I like Trent but man Mox should just squash him for storyline purposes.
> 
> AEW has a thing where everyone where to get a little bit of offence in, its a bad look.


Fans are smart these days. They aren't gonna say oh it took Moxley 8 minutes to beat Trent he looks weak. They rather see a entertaining match between the two with Moxley going over clean then some squash. The match should go like it did between Moxley/Janela a few weeks ago.


----------



## captainzombie

What do you guys think of Nyla winning the title in the 4 way, having Statlander lose next week and then having Statlander chase Nyla for the title? At least it’s more intriguing then Riho not being there.


----------



## RapShepard

captainzombie said:


> What do you guys think of Nyla winning the title in the 4 way, having Statlander lose next week and then having Statlander chase Nyla for the title? At least it’s more intriguing then Riho not being there.


That's cool, but since they're already going with Brandi being obsessed Statlander they should tell that story. I'd have Britt win it, then drop it to Statlander. Let Brandi and Kong go after Statlander. Have Baker join them I mean if they're cutting hair might as well pull teeth too right. Have Statlander go through Kong and Baker. By then some new heel should be built up by then.


----------



## imthegame19

captainzombie said:


> What do you guys think of Nyla winning the title in the 4 way, having Statlander lose next week and then having Statlander chase Nyla for the title? At least it’s more intriguing then Riho not being there.


If they didn't start Statlander vs Kong/Brandi already. I would say that would work. I almost wouldn't be surprised if Shida or Baker won without Riho getting pinned. Then Statlander beats them next week. That way when Statlander is done feuding with Kong. They can set up her vs Riho.


----------



## Sir Linko

RapShepard said:


> That's cool, but since they're already going with Brandi being obsessed Statlander they should tell that story. I'd have Britt win it, then drop it to Statlander. Let Brandi and Kong go after Statlander. Have Baker join them I mean if they're cutting hair might as well pull teeth too right. Have Statlander go through Kong and Baker. By then some new heel should be built up by then.


Wow, now I feel like they missed the boat on this. Instead of another dark group with whatever Brandi is doing. 

They could have just had a creepy ass gimmick with Britt Baker taking peoples teeth because she's a dentist. Being an obsessive maniac who loves to have teeth, especially beautiful teeth.

Fuck man, that would actually be awesome, to me.


----------



## The Wood

RainmakerV2 said:


> Anybody subscribe to F4Ws free YouTube? As soon as Alvarez announced the numbers he pivoted right towards IMPEACHMENT THIS DOESNT MATTER...(Even though NXTs 50 plus is the main category that watches news lol) and then they put out a video on Smackdowns bad ratings (which they havent mentioned on their free channel in like 2 months.) Just a coincidence obviously. No bias.


Yeah, it’s getting quite nauseating. 



imthegame19 said:


> Yes you are so open minded about AEW. Your negative views or opinions on the product doesn't cloud your judgement or reality at all. You are totally non bias haha.
> 
> Anyways it's clear you are rooting for the company as is to fail now. You say same negative crap and overreact with doom and gloom scenarios. Nice try though but nobody around here is stupid.


I’m responding to what they do.


----------



## RapShepard

Sir Linko said:


> Wow, now I feel like they missed the boat on this. Instead of another dark group with whatever Brandi is doing.
> 
> They could have just had a creepy ass gimmick with Britt Baker taking peoples teeth because she's a dentist. Being an obsessive maniac who loves to have teeth, especially beautiful teeth.
> 
> Fuck man, that would actually be awesome, to me.


It could definitely be interesting especially with how great their cinematography is.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> Yeah, it’s getting quite nauseating.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m responding to what they do in a nitpicking or bias way. Because I hate what the company is doing and hope they die.


Fixed


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Fixed


I don’t hope they’ll die. I don’t like what they’re currently doing though. Most wrestling fans don’t seem to. That’s why they are switching off/not ordering the PPVs.

That’s not nitpicking. Those are cold, hard facts. You can’t claim that something is working when it is demonstrably not.


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> I don’t hope they’ll die. I don’t like what they’re currently doing though. Most wrestling fans don’t seem to. That’s why they are switching off/not ordering the PPVs.
> 
> That’s not nitpicking. Those are cold, hard facts. You can’t claim that something is working when it is demonstrably not.


Most wrestling fans liked the product to Full Gear(which did good buys). Yes it's been it or miss since. But you openly rooting for this to continue and that's just sad. Making stupid doom and gloom predictions. Yes you aren't closed minded or made up your mind....


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

imthegame19 said:


> Most wrestling fans liked the product to Full Gear(which did good buys). Yes it's been it or miss since. But you openly rooting for this to continue and that's just sad. Making stupid doom and gloom predictions. Yes you aren't closed minded or made up your mind....


The Wood only speaks fax bro. AEW can’t do anything right. I mean Moxley is not being pushed; he’s being jobbed out to midgets. WWE are killing it with superhero Ricochets push. That man has more charisma in his finger than the entire AEW lockerroom.

AEW push midgets. WWE push superheroes and obviously feed their roster very well. Joes looking beefier than ever, the women love Kevin Owens. Bray Wyatt lost weight but still won the WWE title.


----------



## Saintpat

How did the ratings/ticket sales thread become a booking/Brandi thread?


----------



## The Wood

imthegame19 said:


> Most wrestling fans liked the product to Full Gear(which did good buys). Yes it's been it or miss since. But you openly rooting for this to continue and that's just sad. Making stupid doom and gloom predictions. Yes you aren't closed minded or made up your mind....


No, they didn’t. You are talking about the most hardcore subsection of fans. Most of the people who ordered Double or Nothing never came for All Out. You don’t have an infinite number of people interested in your PPVs in the first place.

I’m rooting for wrestling. The sports entertainment stuff can go away. Very excited for Wrestle Kingdom. Got no interesr



optikk sucks said:


> The Wood only speaks fax bro. AEW can’t do anything right. I mean Moxley is not being pushed; he’s being jobbed out to midgets. WWE are killing it with superhero Ricochets push. That man has more charisma in his finger than the entire AEW lockerroom.
> 
> AEW push midgets. WWE push superheroes and obviously feed their roster very well. Joes looking beefier than ever, the women love Kevin Owens. Bray Wyatt lost weight but still won the WWE title.


Um, did you just short-circuit? Where did I ever say Moxley isn’t being pushed? Where have I ever defended WWE? You seem to know more about what’s going on over there than I do. Not a big Kevin Owens fan, myself. You do realize that AEW would bend over backwards to get ALL those names you mentioned though, right? 



Saintpat said:


> How did the ratings/ticket sales thread become a booking/Brandi thread?


Eh, it’s all connected. The booking affects things like ratings and attendance.


----------



## captainzombie

RapShepard said:


> That's cool, but since they're already going with Brandi being obsessed Statlander they should tell that story. I'd have Britt win it, then drop it to Statlander. Let Brandi and Kong go after Statlander. Have Baker join them I mean if they're cutting hair might as well pull teeth too right. Have Statlander go through Kong and Baker. By then some new heel should be built up by then.





Sir Linko said:


> Wow, now I feel like they missed the boat on this. Instead of another dark group with whatever Brandi is doing.
> 
> They could have just had a creepy ass gimmick with Britt Baker taking peoples teeth because she's a dentist. Being an obsessive maniac who loves to have teeth, especially beautiful teeth.
> 
> Fuck man, that would actually be awesome, to me.


Damn, I think what both of you guys said could work out even better. Imagine Baker turning into this creepy hot chick dentist that collects teeth. Maybe she can join Brandi and Kong, they collect the hair while Britt collects the teeth.


----------



## Optikk is All Elite

captainzombie said:


> Damn, I think what both of you guys said could work out even better. Imagine Baker turning into this creepy hot chick dentist that collects teeth. Maybe she can join Brandi and Kong, they collect the hair while Britt collects the teeth.


That sounds terrible in all honesty lmao.
And I don’t think she could promote that sort of thing as she still works as a dentist lol. Imagine if you were a kid and Baker was the dentist for your check up ?


----------



## imthegame19

The Wood said:


> No, they didn’t. You are talking about the most hardcore subsection of fans. Most of the people who ordered Double or Nothing never came for All Out. You don’t have an infinite number of people interested in your PPVs in the first place.
> 
> I’m rooting for wrestling. The sports entertainment stuff can go away. Very excited for Wrestle Kingdom. Got no interesr


Yeah you are right! 120,000,100,000 and 100,000 buys again. Is just terrible might as well close the company now. Nobody had interest in seeing these matches or the product. Theres no way real wresfling fans would pay for this crap. That's only more ppv buys then any non WWE wrestling company done since Starcade 1999. Oh shoot i shouldn't have said that now you need to make excuse why that's bad. Or find away to say numbers are made up or whatever you do.


----------



## rbl85

imthegame19 said:


> Yeah you are right! 120,000,100,000 and 100,000 buys again. Is just terrible might as well close the company now. Nobody had interest in seeing these matches or the product. Theres no way real wresfling fans would pay for this crap. That's only more ppv buys then any non WWE wrestling company done since Starcade 1999. Oh shoot i shouldn't have said that now you need to make excuse why that's bad. Or find away to say numbers are made up or whatever you do.


Sometime ignorance is the best answer.


----------

