# Booking Fees Of Indy Wrestlers



## njcam

I saw this on Facebook (Wrestling Daily News). What are your thoughts?


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## ReekOfAwesomenesss

Joey Ryan livin that early 2000's indy lyfe roud


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

*LOL @ EMMA ASKING FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AS RICOCHET :LOL*


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## RLStern

*I can confirm as a wrestler that Rey Mysterios' fee is true.

Also bump up Del Rios fee a little because he does seminars, one of which I participated in

Ricochet is usually very to himself, has his headphones on and stretches or stays in an isolated section in the locker room *


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## december_blue

Hmm. Not so sure about the fees on there for guys like Joey Ryan & Colt Cabana, just because they're in that group of wrestlers that are so vocal about how much more they make compared to most WWE guys and how they are making bank without needing to work there.


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## RLStern

Legit BOSS said:


> *LOL @ EMMA ASKING FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AS RICOCHET :LOL*


*
You can laugh but these Indy promoters will pay her it, they'll even be willing to pay more if she asks or wants to do seminars and etc.*


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RLStern said:


> *
> You can laugh but these Indy promoters will pay her it, they'll even be willing to pay more if she asks or wants to do seminars and etc.*


*Obviously not, considering Stardom (the most prominent non-WWE women's wrestling promotion) just rejected her requests :lol*


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## FITZ

december_blue said:


> Hmm. Not so sure about the fees on there for guys like Joey Ryan & Colt Cabana, just because they're in that group of wrestlers that are so vocal about how much more they make compared to most WWE guys and how they are making bank without needing to work there.


$500 a show is $1,000 or $1,500 a week with travel expenses paid. Then throw in merchandise at those events. Colt Cabana has his podcast that he sells advertising on. And all indy guys have their Pro Wrestling Tees shop as well. 

Cabana has said that he takes quantity over quality with his bookings. He obviously works more shows then some of the guys on the top of the list and uses each show to sell merchandise and get more fans. And he says it helps him get booked again because it's not that hard for promoters to justify his fee. And he's low risk. If you are an indy company that sells 400 tickets normally you can take a risk and bring him in. If you don't sell anything extra it's not great but you're not out of business. If you pay Rey Mysterio $20,000 and don't sell any extra tickets you're business is in a lot of trouble. 

I think someone like Colt Cabana can easily clear $125,000-$150,000 a year. Which is very good money and he doesn't have to pay his travel expenses either.


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## famicommander

Legit BOSS said:


> *Obviously not, considering Stardom (the most prominent non-WWE women's wrestling promotion) just rejected her requests :lol*


STARDOM is not even close to as prominent as AAA or CMLL for women's wrestling.


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## Laughable Chimp

Who the fuck is paying Ryback more than 4 grand per show?


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## MC

famicommander said:


> STARDOM is not even close to as prominent as AAA or CMLL for women's wrestling.


I think he means women only companies but even then, you got Ice Ribbion who makes more.


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## RLStern

Legit BOSS said:


> *Obviously not, considering Stardom (the most prominent non-WWE women's wrestling promotion) just rejected her requests :lol*


*
Not all promoters, but trust me there will be those who pay, especially those trying so hard to get their promotion over, the lengths my promotor went to get certain guys and girls who don't even draw is crazy, guaranteed my promotor will pay Emma if he knows.*


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

RLStern said:


> *
> Not all promoters, but trust me there will be those who pay, especially those trying so hard to get their promotion over, the lengths my promotor went to get certain guys and girls who don't even draw is crazy, guaranteed my promotor will pay Emma if he knows.*


*
No one is going broke out here to promote Emma, excuse me, Tenille Dashwood-a rejected WWE jobber, as their draw :lol.*


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## T Hawk

$300
Joey Ryan

How does he make the living he claims to make? Are we sure they didn't forget an extra 0?


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## themuel1

Laughable Chimp said:


> Who the fuck is paying Ryback more than 4 grand per show?


LOL, exactly my first thought looking at the list. 

A fair amount more than Cody Rhodes too I see.


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## T Hawk

like for 300 I'm surprised Jim Cornette hasn't hired Joey Ryan to do yard work for him.


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## Cas Ras

T Hawk said:


> $300
> Joey Ryan
> 
> How does he make the living he claims to make? Are we sure they didn't forget an extra 0?


It's probably a mix of him talking nonsense and that list being random without given date and occasion (while Rey is a steady draw, other numbers can change, for example based on if the person has lately been on national tv). 

He at least claims that he got a jump in last years. I believe him to some extent (with a few hundred you can hardly live), but would guess Ryan just making up how much he earns is probably closer to the truth though  .


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## Laughable Chimp

themuel1 said:


> LOL, exactly my first thought looking at the list.
> 
> A fair amount more than Cody Rhodes too I see.


Cody should be earning more than that really considering his status. A quick calculation though shows that he's been earning near 250000 dollars this year so far which is still pretty impressive.


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## Cas Ras

Laughable Chimp said:


> Cody should be earning more than that really considering his status. A quick calculation though shows that he's been earning near 250000 dollars this year so far which is still pretty impressive.


There are quite some costs involved too though (hotel, agent, health insurance, training and so on). Cody for a rather short time also worked in some smaller towns in the past, this list may be about that. With a date it would be much clearer - if the list is accurate at all. Since he signed meantime a domestic ROH exclusive contract I would guess he earns more per match. Maybe way more, considering what Ryback gets.


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## Mordecay

300 dollars for Chuck Taylor? No wonder he has come a few times here :lol

I would have thought Elgin charges more than 500 though, since his name has gained some value after he joined NJPW.

I wonder how much money UK guys like Ospreay, ZSJ and Scurll ask? Or the UK guys signed for WWE. I must assume that the first 3 make way more money in the indies than the "guys in the big leagues"


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

Assuming these numbers are correct, how embarrassing would it be to be worth less than fucking Hornswoggle?


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## HOJO

famicommander said:


> STARDOM is not even close to as prominent as AAA or CMLL for women's wrestling.


Stardom is a much stronger ground for women's wrestling. And they actually booking more than 1 or 2 one-off foreigners



MC 16 said:


> I think he means women only companies but even then, you got Ice Ribbion who makes more.


They don't use gaijin



T Hawk said:


> $300
> Joey Ryan
> 
> How does he make the living he claims to make? Are we sure they didn't forget an extra 0?


He sells a good amount of merch and gets booked A LOT. Price actually makes sense with DDT having him around like they do


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## famicommander

T Hawk said:


> $300
> Joey Ryan
> 
> How does he make the living he claims to make? Are we sure they didn't forget an extra 0?


He has a Lucha Underground contract too. Those are just indie bookings on top of it.


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## MC

HOJO said:


> Stardom is a much stronger ground for women's wrestling. And they actually booking more than 1 or 2 one-off foreigners
> 
> 
> *They don't use gaijin*
> 
> 
> He sells a good amount of merch and gets booked A LOT. Price actually makes sense with DDT having him around like they do


true they don't


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## USAUSA1

I know Konnan and Rey are best friends but even with the homie discount, Crash must be losing crazy money especially in Mexico where the economy sucks.


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## just1988

*Not bad for a nights work.*


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## famicommander

USAUSA1 said:


> I know Konnan and Rey are best friends but even with the homie discount, Crash must be losing crazy money especially in Mexico where the economy sucks.


Especially considering they don't really have TV, iPPVs, PPVs, or DVDs.


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## Bryan Jericho

$1,300 for Hornswoggle? Ok Emma really needs to up her price then, because she's worth more than $700 more than Swoggle. And anyone calling her a jobber in her WWE run, she was on 2 PPV's recently. One she carried Asuka to a watchable match and the other she looked the best of any woman in the 5-way at No Mercy. Was she booked crappy? Yes. But still was over.


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## HOJO

Bryan Jericho said:


> $1,300 for Hornswoggle? Ok Emma really needs to up her price then, because she's worth more than $700 more than Swoggle. And anyone calling her a jobber in her WWE run, she was on 2 PPV's recently. One she carried Asuka to a watchable match and the other she looked the best of any woman in the 5-way at No Mercy. Was she booked crappy? Yes. But still was over.


She jobbed on both PPVs in didn't carry Asuka to anything

"But was still over" WHAT :lmao


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## 5 Star Giulia ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

HOJO said:


> She jobbed on both PPVs in didn't carry Asuka to anything
> 
> "But was still over" WHAT :lmao










*The blind delusion is fascinating at this point*


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## TwistOfLight

famicommander said:


> He has a Lucha Underground contract too. Those are just indie bookings on top of it.


I'm also fairly certain they get to keep 100% of their merch sales. One of my pals from my promotion wrestled over in America this year and said Cody was laughing all the way to the bank cos of his shirt sales. That's easily hundreds, minimum. I'm sure Joey makes up for it in that, not to the extent of others, buy I guarantee he makes a hell of a lot more than $300 a show, after all that's just the booking fee.


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## Laughable Chimp

Bryan Jericho said:


> $1,300 for Hornswoggle? Ok Emma really needs to up her price then, because she's worth more than $700 more than Swoggle. And anyone calling her a jobber in her WWE run, she was on 2 PPV's recently. One she carried Asuka to a watchable match and the other she looked the best of any woman in the 5-way at No Mercy. Was she booked crappy? Yes. But still was over.


Mate, literally everyone below Hornswoggle should be paid more than Hornswoggle. You got guys like Pentagon Jr, Davey Richards, EC3, Low-Ki, Trevor Lee, Andrew Everett, Masada, Cage, Michael Elgin, Matt Cross and Chuck Taylor who are all capable of being main eventers in any promotion with the right booking and they're all charging less or much less than Hornswoggle.


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## Bryan Jericho

HOJO said:


> She jobbed on both PPVs in didn't carry Asuka to anything
> 
> "But was still over" WHAT :lmao


Fan reaction. Despite crap booking she still got reactions. And btw Bayley got pinned at No Mercy in the 5-way. Emma didn't win, but she wasn't pinned. And lb discussing delusion is laughable. :bryanlol:reneelel:Brock:Cocky:beckylol:StephenA6


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## Cas Ras

Bryan Jericho said:


> $1,300 for Hornswoggle? Ok Emma really needs to up her price then


Everyone, except Ryan, should go higher seeing Hornswoogle  .
For Emma the price will not be low, but also her rumoured first price is indeed not that spectacular. If you are rather fresh off national tv, you can work and have a fanbase (all 3 true in this case) promotions will give a good price to bring in attraction. Just not outside the home markets (like USA, UK) of course for now. They done it in the past and now that the market is hot, will and should not change that. Like RLStern said, promotions are doing far crazier things for fresh known names and on top for people that have less talent. Then depending on how things work out she can still go for more/less after the first bookings.


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## T Hawk

Cas Ras said:


> It's probably a mix of him talking nonsense and that list being random without given date and occasion (while Rey is a steady draw, other numbers can change, for example based on if the person has lately been on national tv).
> 
> He at least claims that he got a jump in last years. I believe him to some extent (with a few hundred you can hardly live), but would guess Ryan just making up how much he earns is probably closer to the truth though  .


yeah that seems about right tbh

even if you factor in his LU thing, it's not like they're breaking the bank for him and he's probably getting something like 500 per episode.

I know a few months ago he said "why would I go somewhere where I move to Florida and I'm making 1/3 of the money?!" Yeah Joey Ryan, what's the going rate for a 40-year old indy wretsler who's a pure comedy wrestler? I guess the answer is 300-500 dollars.

I would be surprised if Joey Ryan makes more than 50k per year take home. Assuming he's even filing for taxes 4x a year like he should be. I know he laches himself onto guys like Omega and Bucks and Cody as guys who make full-time livings on the independents, but man he's really not even 5 categories below those guys in earning potential.


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## Death Rider

RLStern said:


> Legit BOSS said:
> 
> 
> 
> *LOL @ EMMA ASKING FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AS RICOCHET
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> You can laugh but these Indy promoters will pay her it, they'll even be willing to pay more if she asks or wants to do seminars and etc.*
Click to expand...

Maybe defiant might but don't see anyone else paying that fee for emma


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## validreasoning

Legit BOSS said:


> *LOL @ EMMA ASKING FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY AS RICOCHET :LOL*


Emma's been on WWE tv though in front of millions worldwide for the last couple of years. Ricochet has never been on one of the big us cable pro wrestling programs of the past two decades (WWE, TNA or wcw). Good on ricochet for asking and getting bookings at that price without the tv exposure..one thing for sure though you won't be seeing him in WWE for a long time if he is charging that much right now as they wouldn't view him as a star that would be worth paying upper mid/mainevent money right off the bat.



Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> Assuming these numbers are correct, how embarrassing would it be to be worth less than fucking Hornswoggle?


Again swoggle had a decade long run in wwe and he worked on TV when they had a mini boom in popularity circa 2006-09 with 5-6 million watching raw weekly in us alone.

If you have a family wrestling show you could far easier sell tickets to parents and kids with Hornswoggle on the poster than most Indy guys. I remember Eugene working those kind of shows in the late 2000s and kids would go mad for the character.


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## adamclark52

RLStern said:


> *
> You can laugh but these Indy promoters will pay her it, they'll even be willing to pay more if she asks or wants to do seminars and etc.*


joke's on them when she brings no more people than their usual shows have in


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## farhanc

Hello I think the fees would depend on profile of the wrestler. If a wrestler has been on WWE TV and won stuff how long they have been there.

I was in London a few years back and a local wrestling which used to be on TV in UK (until the fight network UK ended 1st December 2008) advertised Matt Striker on the poster .

My thoughts why have Matt Striker on the poster there must be a bigger name ?

Yours

Farhan


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## thelaughingman

who tf is still booking new jack


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

adamclark52 said:


> joke's on them when she brings no more people than their usual shows have in


Emma has 2.5M followers on social media, you don't think if she tweeted out or IG'd when and where she's wrestling and that there would be a meet and greet that some of those 2.5M followers wouldn't come and see her? Even if it was just to meet her, she's got enough stans that any promoter would love to have her.


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## USAUSA1

Social media numbers don't matter, because most followers are just wwe fans or fake accounts. Rappers and singers have millions of followers but how many people actually buy their albums? Emma will do well in Florida.


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## Cas Ras

They do matter, but yeah generally social media numbers are for all professions with inactive accounts + rarely active + bots inflated. It is an indication of popularity and awareness, but the numbers are not to be taken literally. Though they not must be to make a decent deal as a promoter and living as a wrestler.


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## Nightrow

I'm amazed Terry Funk is the sixth highest paid on the list over some of the younger guys. Obviously he's a bigger name than most on the list, it's just with his constant retirements and returns, how much does he even wrestle on the indies? Anyway, I'm not surprised to see he's come out of retirement once again after retiring last year.

I am surprised at New Jack though for coming out of retirement but unlike Terry, this is the first time he's done that I believe.

And how is Hornswoggle getting paid more or paid equal as guys like Sabu, New Jack, Chavo etc?


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## Pizzamorg

I had no idea the money in pro wrestling was so good? Even the lower down guys on like a couple of hundred dollars, I get there are external costs like hotel feels and travel costs to come out of that and so on but what us regular folk are making over a couple of full working days is the same as they are for twenty minutes work and we still have living costs to come out of our money too. For the guys higher up that list then just... damn. You cram in those bookings as close together geographically as you can and fill your car with merch, you're going to be making insane money. 

I dunno, I just thought indy wrestling is looked upon as so niche I just kinda assumed everyone would be making like fifty dollars a show.


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## RavishingRickRules

Pizzamorg said:


> I had no idea the money in pro wrestling was so good? Even the lower down guys on like a couple of hundred dollars, I get there are external costs like hotel feels and travel costs to come out of that and so on but what us regular folk are making over a couple of full working days is the same as they are for twenty minutes work and we still have living costs to come out of our money too. For the guys higher up that list then just... damn. You cram in those bookings as close together geographically as you can and fill your car with merch, you're going to be making insane money.
> 
> I dunno, I just thought indy wrestling is looked upon as so niche I just kinda assumed everyone would be making like fifty dollars a show.


You also have to take into account the frequency these guys are working, most of the lower down guys aren't on that good money tbh. Sure they're getting $300 a day, but they're not working 5 days a week/52 weeks a year either. I definitely wouldn't do it because I make more than that anyway, but let's assume they do 2 dates a week. You're looking at $31,000/£23,654 a year before deductions, that's like the equivalent of a telesales supervisor in the UK. It's hardly great money tbh.


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## Pizzamorg

RavishingRickRules said:


> You also have to take into account the frequency these guys are working, most of the lower down guys aren't on that good money tbh. Sure they're getting $300 a day, but they're not working 5 days a week/52 weeks a year either. I definitely wouldn't do it because I make more than that anyway, but let's assume they do 2 dates a week. You're looking at $31,000/£23,654 a year before deductions, that's like the equivalent of a telesales supervisor in the UK. It's hardly great money tbh.


It is great money in context though, that wrestler is working about five hours a month to make that money, that telesales supervisor is working closer to 150.


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## RavishingRickRules

Pizzamorg said:


> It is great money in context though, that wrestler is working about five hours a month to make that money, that telesales supervisor is working closer to 150.


The telesales guy is also sat comfortably in his office and not getting the shit beaten out of him whilst also in a career path where he can quickly progress through the ranks to management within a couple of years and dwarf that figure. There's also training, travel and everything else you have to factor into the "work time" none of which they're getting paid for so it evens out a little. I dunno, I wouldn't consider that good money at all tbh, especially with the fact there are zero job perks or bonuses beyond their base pay.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

Cas Ras said:


> They do matter, but yeah generally social media numbers are for all professions with inactive accounts + rarely active + bots inflated. It is an indication of popularity and awareness, but the numbers are not to be taken literally. Though they not must be to make a decent deal as a promoter and living as a wrestler.


Can I assume the numbers are inflated for everyone famous? Cody Rhodes has 721K followers on twitter and I can't even find an IG account for him, assuming his number of followers is less than that, he's drawing pretty well despite not having that many followers. If it's fair to assume Emma has less than 2.5M but more than 721K, theoretically she should have an easier time drawing than Cody. Now I realize this is a flawed comparison, and I don't expect Emma to draw as much as Cody, but I do think this supports my original point that she has significant value to a promoter. Look at this google trends chart comparing Cody and Emma's popularity, keeping in mind that Cody is the biggest thing in the indies right now and Emma was a jobber:



Spoiler:  Google Trends


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## Pizzamorg

RavishingRickRules said:


> The telesales guy is also sat comfortably in his office and not getting the shit beaten out of him whilst also in a career path where he can quickly progress through the ranks to management within a couple of years and dwarf that figure. There's also training, travel and everything else you have to factor into the "work time" none of which they're getting paid for so it evens out a little. I dunno, I wouldn't consider that good money at all tbh, especially with the fact there are zero job perks or bonuses beyond their base pay.


But I am talking more about the context though, I had no idea that pretty much any indy wrestler with a modicum of name value can make a living in the business. We are constantly told that indy wrestling is niche so I figured everyone outside of the main event scene must be making so little doing wrestling that they must work in a Walmart Mon to Thursday. And you talk about the living costs that come out of that, it isn't going to be dramatically different to the costs anyone else has.


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## RavishingRickRules

Pizzamorg said:


> But I am talking more about the context though, I had no idea that pretty much any indy wrestler with a modicum of name value can make a living in the business. We are constantly told that indy wrestling is niche so I figured everyone outside of the main event scene must be making so little doing wrestling that they must work in a Walmart Mon to Thursday. And you talk about the living costs that come out of that, it isn't going to be dramatically different to the costs anyone else has.


I think that was more true in the past, nowadays most decent sized indies are putting out content online and merch in a way that they didn't in the past. And what I'm saying is that they're not getting paid for all the training they have to do, they're probably not getting paid their travel costs either unless they're a bigger name, it doesn't just work out as $300 for a little bit of work, you have to factor everything else in too. Compare it to most decent "business" jobs, I get all of my travel paid for including flights across Europe. When I'm out of the country I can also claim back all food/drink, toiletries and anything else I need. I get a company car, quarterly bonuses, discounts on insurance and numerous other little "perks" for being with the company. In my experience none of that is uncommon in the business world. I just don't personally think that's an awful lot of money I guess, it's the same as most people with no qualifications can earn if they work hard for a couple years, and they'll likely get more perks and not have to fuck themselves up to earn it :shrug


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## Morrison17

Everett > Ryan and Elgin?


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## Pizzamorg

RavishingRickRules said:


> I think that was more true in the past, nowadays most decent sized indies are putting out content online and merch in a way that they didn't in the past. And what I'm saying is that they're not getting paid for all the training they have to do, they're probably not getting paid their travel costs either unless they're a bigger name, it doesn't just work out as $300 for a little bit of work, you have to factor everything else in too. Compare it to most decent "business" jobs, I get all of my travel paid for including flights across Europe. When I'm out of the country I can also claim back all food/drink, toiletries and anything else I need. I get a company car, quarterly bonuses, discounts on insurance and numerous other little "perks" for being with the company. In my experience none of that is uncommon in the business world. I just don't personally think that's an awful lot of money I guess, it's the same as most people with no qualifications can earn if they work hard for a couple years, and they'll likely get more perks and not have to fuck themselves up to earn it :shrug


That factor is very true for sure, just like I still had the mindset that your average indy wrestler gets fifty dollars and maybe a sandwich for his trouble before he drives 500 miles to the next show in twelve hours time. Instead it seems that the modern advancements to indy wrestling have made it a much more viable living option for people who want in on the business too, even if it lacks the basic perks of a more conventional job. That just surprises me.


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## Sweggeh

People are making a killing on the indy scene, especially the bigger names. Look at someone like Cody, who already has a six figure deal with ROH, and does 2 or 3 shows a week for other indies. Then sells insane amounts of merch. The guy is making double what he made in WWE.

If you can manage to raise your name value, the indy scene is a very good place to be in 2017.

And the best thing about is that the more talented you are, the most buzz you have and the more talked about you become, the money you will be making. Its not like WWE where you can only go as far as Vince wants you to.


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## WorldClass

Laughable Chimp said:


> Who the fuck is paying Ryback more than 4 grand per show?


Ryback is


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## RavishingRickRules

Pizzamorg said:


> That factor is very true for sure, just like I still had the mindset that your average indy wrestler gets fifty dollars and maybe a sandwich for his trouble before he drives 500 miles to the next show in twelve hours time. Instead it seems that the modern advancements to indy wrestling have made it a much more viable living option for people who want in on the business too, even if it lacks the basic perks of a more conventional job. That just surprises me.


I guess I had a different perspective because I know a couple of British indy guys personally who do it for a living (sure one of them owns the promotion he works at but still) so I assumed it was more common these days for wrestlers to be able to live alright if they moved around and got enough work. A lot of wrestlers on podcasts seem to say that now is the best time ever to be outside of the WWE bubble and still make a living, so it's pretty cool I guess. Whilst wrestling as a whole is smaller, it seems like for the wrestlers themselves it's a better time to work in because you don't have to "make the big leagues" in order for it to be a viable career.


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## WorldClass

The pay in wrestling looks like shit anywhere compared to the UFC and Boxing


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## Jaysfromnyc

T Hawk said:


> yeah that seems about right tbh
> 
> even if you factor in his LU thing, it's not like they're breaking the bank for him and he's probably getting something like 500 per episode.
> 
> I know a few months ago he said "why would I go somewhere where I move to Florida and I'm making 1/3 of the money?!" Yeah Joey Ryan, what's the going rate for a 40-year old indy wretsler who's a pure comedy wrestler? I guess the answer is 300-500 dollars.
> 
> I would be surprised if Joey Ryan makes more than 50k per year take home. Assuming he's even filing for taxes 4x a year like he should be. I know he laches himself onto guys like Omega and Bucks and Cody as guys who make full-time livings on the independents, but man he's really not even 5 categories below those guys in earning potential.


I don't see why anyone would factor in Lucha Underground deals when Lucha Underground hasn't even had shows or paid wrestlers in over a year.


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## Sweggeh

WorldClass said:


> The pay in wrestling looks like shit anywhere compared to the UFC and Boxing


No way, the pay is wrestling is much better most of the time.

If you are a UFC or boxing star you get paid a lot more than most wrestlers, but most MMA fighters and boxers aren't stars.

These guys get paid shit, and only get to fight at most 3 or 4 times a year. Whereas a wrestler can perform 3 or 4 times a week.

Wrestlers on average get paid way more than MA or boxing guys.


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## Chris JeriG.O.A.T

Sweggeh said:


> No way, the pay is wrestling is much better most of the time.
> 
> If you are a UFC or boxing star you get paid a lot more than most wrestlers, but most MMA fighters and boxers aren't stars.
> 
> These guys get paid shit, and only get to fight at most 3 or 4 times a year. Whereas a wrestler can perform 3 or 4 times a week.
> 
> Wrestlers on average get paid way more than MA or boxing guys.


Yea a midcard champion in UFC only gets 20-40K for a fight and they're only allowed to fight once every 90 days, plus their agent and their trainers/corner team all get a cut, and they have to pay for training camps out of pocket. There's no fucking way I'd choose to be a fighter over a wrestler, sure they work less but they get paid less plus they get brain damage for a living.


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## Cas Ras

Chris JeriG.O.A.T said:


> I do think this supports my original point that she has significant value to a promoter...


Agreed, I just think the social media numbers are generally for all stars inflated to reality. But she is, even despite the relatively weak booking, definitely quite popular as you did show and I look forward how she will do on the circuit.



Pizzamorg said:


> working about five hours a month to make that money


If you want to commit yourself to it, it is a profession. You need to organise a lot things, travel a lot, do extra stuff at events (like meet and greet), of course you should also put in many hours into training... These things are not just costs but also time eaters.
Many are still not able to make a living out of it, subtracting the costs, but yeah the situation is certainly better than some years ago. They not need to only work for the hope any more that a big promotion finds them.


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## Jam

Wasn't Ryback asking for more then he had to lower his expectations? :mj4

Colt Cabana on 500? Damn

Tbh Emma asking for 2k isn't bad, if it could be negotiated to more than 1k that's still good for her


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## Pizzamorg

Cas Ras said:


> If you want to commit yourself to it, it is a profession. You need to organise a lot things, travel a lot, do extra stuff at events (like meet and greet), of course you should also put in many hours into training... These things are not just costs but also time eaters.
> Many are still not able to make a living out of it, subtracting the costs, but yeah the situation is certainly better than some years ago. They not need to only work for the hope any more that a big promotion finds them.


You talk about these things like they are exclusive to wrestlers, though. Sure I don't need to fill up my car with petrol and drive across the country out of my own pocket to get work but I know people in other jobs that have to and really, everyone should be going to the gym, probably not to a wrestlers level but a wrestler has all the time in the world to train, the rest of us are trying to find time to go the gym and fit our travel in around a forty hour work week. If a wrestler is moaning about using their time to train, get another job. 

But the big shock for me, as I said elsewhere, is while they may not have the same security and perks as I do in my work, they are probably earning about the same as me at a fraction of the time. When you figure your average match is around fifteen minutes and some of the lower down guys are wrestling in front of a hundred off people their booking fee seems astronomically high, Like I said in the thread elsewhere, in my head I figured basically 90% of the indy circuit had to have a full time job to support wrestling over the weekend effectively like a hobby but instead because of the nature of indy wrestling these days it seems much, much, easier to make some kind of living out of being a full time pro wrestler, if you accept your living will be basic and you will have to fully embody the nomadic, wrestler lifestyle.


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## Ted Scheckler

Hi guys, long time lurker first time poster. This topic particularly interested me because the use of name talent is something I have quite a few views on. I apologise if it's long winded but maybe it will open up more discussion points in this thread.

First of all, the general consensus is that some of these guys make way too much money and I totally agree. Ryback recently toured Australia with his 4500 dollar fee and the promoter did manage to pull a decent crowd of about 700 on the first night in his local area because he had all the media contacts who ate Ryback up. They tried to take Ryback to a new area the next night and pulled about 150-200. They took such a financial bath with Ryback that they cancelled a show scheduled for the end of this year and moved it to their 90 seat wrestling school instead. They haven't ran one show since Ryback appeared in August, it is now November. They also put their championship on Ryback so they'll have to take another financial bath to have him actually lose the belt. Not smart.

In the above circumstance Ryback could've been worth the dollars they spent on him but during Ryback's appearances on radio, the local news (Yes, seriously) and with the newspaper HEAVILY backing the event there was never anything to draw a fan back. What I mean by that is Ryback wasn't there for a reason, he wasn't appearing to help the local baby face topple the heels, he wasn't coming in and putting over the local champion as a world class competitor, he wasn't doing anything except promoting himself and his appearance at the event. Ryback then subsequently came in, beat the local champion (Who had been on top for 2 years at that point which makes the people he beat look like schlubs) and went home. Sure, the company got some positive press with Ryback fans for treating him well but that's it. There was no follow up.

These guys usually aren't going to get you their price in tickets alone. Lets say I want to book Chavo Guerrero Jr who is a middle of the road national talent with a famous last name. I'm not only paying Chavo a thousand dollars to appear but I'm covering a flight and a hotel as well, that's a minimum of 1500 for Chavo to appear. Do you think Chavo is going to pull 150 people (Assuming $10 tickets) through the gate? Of course not. Odds are Chavo would sell 20-30 tickets but as the promoter I can have Chavo do a signing, maybe those 20-30 fans are willing to pay $10.00 for a photo in the ring and an autograph. Maybe my local wrestlers are willing to pay $25.00 for an opportunity to do a 2 hour seminar with Chavo. I'd be running at a loss still at this point but then I get the advertising that Chavo brings, I bring Chavo to town a day or two early and fill his schedule with media commitments. Local radio talks to Chavo, local newspaper does an article on him with some quotes where Chavo is actually putting over the local talent. "Oh, I'm here to challenge for the XYZ Title, I've heard that local champion ABC has been talking a lot of smack about me and I'm here to beat him, take his title and shut him up". Suddenly ABC receives that press as does the company. That's where the value comes from plus you have the experience Chavo brings, the help he provides and you have him sign his name a hundred times on various merchandise that you can sell later. Eventually you break even but you've got this positive press from it all.

Once Chavo is gone you have your local guy who beat him bring it up, you show footage of this guy beating Chavo, you have Chavo in your opening for your web show and you have a promo of Chavo after his match sweating like a pig with an ice pack on his head saying that local guy is a great wrestler and proved something to him tonight. So now you're not only getting a good match, selling some tickets, getting some press but you're also getting your local guy over because he's managed to beat a former TV wrestler and the TV wrestler is admitting that he was the better man.

This is where promoters go wrong. Many promoters (Just like the Ryback promoter) just announce a guy with no story and very little notice, the guy comes to town, topples the local like it's nothing and the "name" goes home whilst the promotion is left to pick up the pieces. Alternatively sometimes the local does indeed beat the name but nobody ever cares because it's never built up as a big deal.

As for Emma, I'm biased because she's Australian and even I believe she isn't worth 2000 USD for an appearance plus expensive flight and hotel. If I were a promoter and I was offered an Emma appearance my offer would be $500.00, hotel and travel fee. Probably $1000.00 total and the reason for that is because nobody really cares too much. Emma would pull 20 tickets in my town if she was lucky, she's a good wrestler so a seminar would be held but I don't see guys paying big dollars for it when they can do a seminar with Mr. Kennedy for $20.00 and her autograph on merchandise wouldn't have much value. All you'd get out of it is the publicity so you'd effectively be paying your 1000 dollars to have someone fresh from WWE appear, teach your locals and sell a few seats. Not worth it.

The best value on that list is Cody Rhodes, Colt Cabana (As long as he doesn't do comedy stuff), Matt Cross Michael Elgin, New Jack (ECW still has a big following and New Jack still can do a good hardcore match). The rest are very overpriced and odds are you wouldn't make back your investment.

Also, who the hell is giving Sabu or Terry Funk $1350.00 and $3000.00 respectively in 2017? They're both legends don't get me wrong but I've seen Sabu matches before his recent injury and the dudes body is broken down horribly. Are 135 people going to pay to see Sabu in 2017? I highly doubt it. As for Funk, he can't even wrestle anymore so you're flying a dude in to host a seminar, autograph signing and maybe be a referee/enforcer or cut a promo to the crowd. Not worth it.


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## Balls Mahoney

One thing worth considering is where these shows are taking place, if they are in major cities that are hotbeds for wrestling or just extremely small independent shows, the kind you see pasted on shop windows in small local towns. Because often the small local town won't have a clue who these hot local indie wrestlers are, but they'll see Hornswoggle on the poster & recognise him from TV & take the family along for a night out. These aren't the same wrestling fans that are wearing Bullet Club t-shirts & mark out over Japanese wrestling. 

Emma is fresh from TV, she'll probably be booked at that price quite often for the first 6 months of her independent career. Sure, she'll probably have to lower her fee after that but I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to pay that price for her right now.


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## WorldClass

sounds like a tough business for women and men as well to be honest , I wonder how many promotions make money because if your paying that much for a single talent I can only speculate how much it cost for the rest and the ring , building fees, promoters licence and any other fees


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## Bananas

If true Elgin is selling himself short by a good amount. Who in their right mind would pay nearly double for Moose over Elgin for example? I figure guys like Joey Ryan and Canaba keep their fees low because they make their real money with merch, so the idea is to maximise their number of bookings and you achieve that by having a low fee. They're not killing their bodies either with their style, so it probably works out well.


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## Cas Ras

Just a small correction since Emma was also discussed here: Meltzer wrote a longer correction/clarification today in the WON. Her rate is according to Meltzer actually 1.5k, with the asked conditions around it being just the usual conditions for known names.
According to him the offer was just 2k for Japan and some more oversea regions, stating that it is normal to charge more for long oversea travels like Japan. He not particularly stated if her agent also charges that price for Australia.


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## Jonhern

I went to a show this year where it was Rey vs ricochet, I dont know how they made any money especially with all the other guys, it was a long card. It was a big venue for an indy show but it was not full.


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## Ted Scheckler

WorldClass said:


> sounds like a tough business for women and men as well to be honest , I wonder how many promotions make money because if your paying that much for a single talent I can only speculate how much it cost for the rest and the ring , building fees, promoters licence and any other fees


Ring: Usually only 200 dollars or so to hire a truck and move it to the venue. Most promoters buy a ring don't rent one.

Building fees: You're Australian so you'd understand this better. A venue like an RSL club auditorium can sometimes be as little as 200-300 dollars for the day. A good club will help you advertise (Put posters up in their building, put it on their website/social media) and some will even sell tickets for you. This is so important because at a big club you could sell quite a few tickets based off of foot traffic entering the club for dinner or what not.

Promoters licence: Not a thing in Australia, the only thing you require is public liability insurance which is 700 dollars for the year.

Then your other fees:

Non "name" talent: High end local talent generally work for 50-75 dollars a night and you can find decent talent to fill out the card for 0-30 dollars a match. You will notice many promotions in the United States will have a card of 9-10 matches and everything is overbooked to hell. Most of those guys are working for free hence why the promoter can afford it. A referee will usually earn about 20-30 dollars unless he's friends with the promoter.

Advertising: Advertising to the general public should be a major expense of a minimum of 500 dollars unless you're in a town that is completely open to getting you on it's media for free. 500 dollars will get you a small social media campaign, a few hundred flyers, some posters and perhaps a small newspaper ad or some radio advertisement time. 500 dollars doesn't go far in the advertising world.

So you're looking at:

Ring: $200.00 (More if you're renting one)

Insurance: $60.00 (Per show)

Building fee: $300.00

Talent fee: $500.00 (That is if we're using six higher end talents on the card and filling the rest out with the lower end guys. Of course if you're open to using a card of just lower end guys this drops down lower but you can't draw with a card full of middle of the road guys)

Advertising: $500.00 (That's for the sheer minimum in hopes of filling a relatively decent venue. Of course if you want TV, radio campaigns, big newspaper advertisements this could easily run you into 3000-4000 dollar territory)

Concessions/Merchandise/Printing of tickets/Raffle Prizes/Etc etc: $100.00 (Approximately)

So a small independent card going off my mathematics will set you back approximately 1660 dollars. That's 166 seats at $10.00 a ticket to so much as break even. Want to use even a lower end name on your card? You can probably add an additional thousand to that figure after you pay a booking fee, transport fee and hotel fee.

I'd say a fair chunk of promoters are bringing these guys in to either build hype for their companies or make a show seem bigger and are subsequently running at a loss.

My favourite video out there is "Nature Boy" Paul Lee (A Ric Flair rip off who promotes shows) doing a show in what looks to be a bar with about 60 people in the crowd and he had booked Ric Flair for the card. The venue might have seated 150-200 if he was lucky and he's got Ric Flair who makes something like 10,000-15,000 dollars an appearance.


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## WorldClass

Ted Scheckler said:


> Ring: Usually only 200 dollars or so to hire a truck and move it to the venue. Most promoters buy a ring don't rent one.
> 
> Building fees: You're Australian so you'd understand this better. A venue like an RSL club auditorium can sometimes be as little as 200-300 dollars for the day. A good club will help you advertise (Put posters up in their building, put it on their website/social media) and some will even sell tickets for you. This is so important because at a big club you could sell quite a few tickets based off of foot traffic entering the club for dinner or what not.
> 
> Promoters licence: Not a thing in Australia, the only thing you require is public liability insurance which is 700 dollars for the year.
> 
> Then your other fees:
> 
> Non "name" talent: High end local talent generally work for 50-75 dollars a night and you can find decent talent to fill out the card for 0-30 dollars a match. You will notice many promotions in the United States will have a card of 9-10 matches and everything is overbooked to hell. Most of those guys are working for free hence why the promoter can afford it. A referee will usually earn about 20-30 dollars unless he's friends with the promoter.
> 
> Advertising: Advertising to the general public should be a major expense of a minimum of 500 dollars unless you're in a town that is completely open to getting you on it's media for free. 500 dollars will get you a small social media campaign, a few hundred flyers, some posters and perhaps a small newspaper ad or some radio advertisement time. 500 dollars doesn't go far in the advertising world.
> 
> So you're looking at:
> 
> Ring: $200.00 (More if you're renting one)
> 
> Insurance: $60.00 (Per show)
> 
> Building fee: $300.00
> 
> Talent fee: $500.00 (That is if we're using six higher end talents on the card and filling the rest out with the lower end guys. Of course if you're open to using a card of just lower end guys this drops down lower but you can't draw with a card full of middle of the road guys)
> 
> Advertising: $500.00 (That's for the sheer minimum in hopes of filling a relatively decent venue. Of course if you want TV, radio campaigns, big newspaper advertisements this could easily run you into 3000-4000 dollar territory)
> 
> Concessions/Merchandise/Printing of tickets/Raffle Prizes/Etc etc: $100.00 (Approximately)
> 
> So a small independent card going off my mathematics will set you back approximately 1660 dollars. That's 166 seats at $10.00 a ticket to so much as break even. Want to use even a lower end name on your card? You can probably add an additional thousand to that figure after you pay a booking fee, transport fee and hotel fee.
> 
> I'd say a fair chunk of promoters are bringing these guys in to either build hype for their companies or make a show seem bigger and are subsequently running at a loss.
> 
> My favourite video out there is "Nature Boy" Paul Lee (A Ric Flair rip off who promotes shows) doing a show in what looks to be a bar with about 60 people in the crowd and he had booked Ric Flair for the card. The venue might have seated 150-200 if he was lucky and he's got Ric Flair who makes something like 10,000-15,000 dollars an appearance.


That poor promoter that used Ric Flair is an idiot but yeah it doesn't seem like a smart business to get into .


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## nyelator

Swagger could get more.


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## Stadhart02

I am amazed at Rey Mysterio's fee! I went to the RPW UK Summer Sizzler show where he was wrestling Marty Scurll (great match btw) where the arena was sold out but only holds 1200. The tickets weren't massively expensive either outside of the front couple rows....no idea how companies can afford these prices


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## Cas Ras

Fir indie promotions some quite significant earnings can come through sponsors and extras like meet&greets. A or multiple known names probably help a lot for these things.

Paying a 5 digit number just for a guess appearance of a star that not even wrestles on the show still sounds like a terrible decision though of course  .


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## Ted Scheckler

WorldClass said:


> That poor promoter that used Ric Flair is an idiot but yeah it doesn't seem like a smart business to get into .


It can be quite lucrative. If you're a promoter who knows how to do business, talk to venues and sell shows to them you can do really well financially. Clubs in Australia will pay a decent amount of money for a 2 hour entertainment show that can get the kids into the seats and the adults drinking. Fairs and Festivals also are occasionally open to wrestling and use it as a special attraction.

Unfortunately most promoters are happy with the same 50-60 fans month in and month out. No logical booking to hook people or bring new fans back, no real advertising and no fresh faces ever coming in. Why would I come back?

There was a company in Sydney about 9-10 years ago that was very much happy with 50-60 fans month in and month out. They had a 300 seat auditorium they got for free (Club was keen just to have some Sunday afternoon entertainment). Eventually one day someone had the smart idea of maybe sending something to the local newspaper, the newspaper did a story about the show and they pulled an extra 150 fans on top of their regular 50-60 and had a killer crowd. They then proceeded to relocate.


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## whelp

So $1,500 for booking Emma?

interesting...


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## BehindYou

Maybe these figures coming out influenced Neville supposedly having positive talks with WWE....

For all Cody's talk of tripling his income, you could expect Neville to make 2k a match based on what other guys are. Unless he could join BC, his earning potential in WWE is much higher than on the indies. Dude is surely looking at a $500K downside if he comes back.


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## FITZ

I would be surprised if his downside was half of that.


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## Japanese Puroresu

You're a real piece of shit for just throwing the info like this out there...

Wrestling is a brotherhood, whoever did this is kinda shitty.


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## AriesXXXYoungBuck

Stadhart02 said:


> I am amazed at Rey Mysterio's fee! I went to the RPW UK Summer Sizzler show where he was wrestling Marty Scurll (great match btw) where the arena was sold out but only holds 1200. The tickets weren't massively expensive either outside of the front couple rows....no idea how companies can afford these prices


Clearly there is no return on investment. Promoter had to Be in the red after this show. I don’t understand the logic, but he just had to have Rey there I suppose


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## PrettyLush

Chucky T fee should be higher by now. He's going places.


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## RKing85

anybody who pays that much for RVD in 2017 is a fucking idiot.


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## sharkboy22

New Jack is worth more than Michael Elgin? WTF? Kongo Kong and Chuck Taylor on the same level? Huh?


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## Ted Scheckler

RKing85 said:


> anybody who pays that much for RVD in 2017 is a fucking idiot.


Not really, think about it like this:

- RVD arrives on Wednesday for your Saturday night show. The guy is a former WWE Champion and is a very famous pro wrestler who has competed in almost every major wrestling company. Odds are every news outlet including television is going to want to talk to him. I guarantee if you had the contacts you'd have RVD on the local news, he'd be being interviewed on morning radio, the newspapers would be writing an article on him. In terms of news outlets it's hard to get all of them firing at once especially for an independent wrestling show. From Wednesday-Saturday I'd assure you that you'd get some kind of news coverage every single day with Van Dam and that kind of coverage by itself is worth thousands.

- RVD arrives to the building Saturday morning, big star so you've probably got a fair chunk of your local wrestlers and wrestlers from surrounding companies paying 100 dollars to do a seminar with him. Lets say 20 guys pay that amount of money to train and learn from a legitimate star of wrestling. That's 2000 in your pocket and you'd easily get it.

- Meet and Greet rolls around, 10 dollar entry fee to get into the meet and greet and maybe $50.00 to get an autograph and photo with RVD. Lets say 50 people attend, that's 500 in entry fee and an additional 2500 dollars in revenue just to get an autograph and photo. That's not including the 8X10's you're selling of him to get signed. Also, anything you don't sell gets signed by Van Dam and goes on eBay or is sold at the merchandise table at the show.

At this point if everything has gone to plan you've made 5000 off Van Dam (Not including the free advertising) so then onto the show:

- With all your free advertising maybe 1000 wrestling fans who know him and are keen to see him do the van daminator (Spelling?) and the frog splash. Lets say your ringside seats for this event are $50.00 and you sell 100 of them that's 5000 dollars right off the top. Lets say the other 900 people pay 15 to get in that's another $13,500.

- After the show Van Dam is available for photos in the ring but no autographs. $30.00 each. Maybe 10 people bite, additional $300.00 in your pocket.

So you look at it, you're making $5000.00 off pre-show stuff, $18,500 off the tickets for the event and then $300.00 for your post-show stuff. You've then also got 100 items signed by Van Dam which you can sell on your website or on eBay for the next year or two which probably nets you another 1000-2000 dollars.

Total is 23,800 in money coming in. Van Dam probably runs you his 12,000 dollar booking fee, business class flight and 5 star hotel. Even in a foreign country the most you'd be spending on this kind of thing would be 17,000 dollars to get him there and you're making 6800 in return.

Some people wouldn't make that kind of risk for that return but if you know the media is going to get behind you and you have a big fan base already then you get much more confident.

The match Van Dam has isn't important either by the way. The people are coming to see him do the frog splash, the rolling thunder, van daminator (spelling again) and do the thumb point. A smart promoter puts a guy like Van Dam with a hot local main event and tries to hook the casuals with the locals.


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## Nightrow

RKing85 said:


> anybody who pays that much for RVD in 2017 is a fucking idiot.


He's still a big enough name to the point WWE want him for part time schedules and Royal Rumble appearances. And he can still go in the ring. In fact, he and Sabu had a dream match with The Hardyz at Wrestle-Con couple years ago.


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## SHIVV-EAUX-EMME-GEEE

Chuck Taylor is a steal at $250.


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## E.T

How the hell are Tommy Dreamer and Sabu worth 2000$ in 2017?

They haven't been worth that much since 2001.


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